[CitizensTruth] FW: [WestonAPriceElginIllinoisChapter] Mark Nolt Farm Raided in PA

[Robin Migalla]

Hello Everyone,

This email thread (or perhaps combination of threads) was forwarded from a 
member of my Weston A. Price group here in Elgin.  I suspect it came from a 
raw milk listserv.  I encourage you to read it through for interesting 
perspectives on many things - food and freedom, patriotism, and health care 
to name just a few.  I suspect returning to real food from real growers in 
our local vicinity will solve every problem we face in this rotten state in 
which we find ourselves.

Cheers,
Robin

-----Original Message-----
From:	D&D Juffernbruch [SMTP:D at Juffernbruch.com]
Sent:	Monday, April 28, 2008 09:42
To:	D&D Juffernbruch
Subject:	[WestonAPriceElginIllinoisChapter] Mark Nolt Farm Raided in PA

9. The Criminalization of Raw Milk

    Posted by: "Carolyn Graff" zgraff at charter.net carolyn_graff

    Date: Sat Apr 26, 2008 3:50 pm ((PDT))



http://www.counterpunch.org/cohen04262008.html

The Criminalization of Raw Milk

A Mennonite Farmer is Hauled Away



By LINN COHEN-COLE On April 25, 2008, in Cumberland County, Pennsylvania,
Mark Nolt, a Wenger Mennonite (Horse and Buggy Mennonite) dairyman,
threatened for months with arrest for selling raw milk without a permit was
removed from his property by state troopers...



Carolyn



Madison, WI



________________________________________________________________________



1a. Re: DEBBIE SINCE YOU ASK MORE DETAILS ON NOLT FARM RAID

    Posted by: "dewittlinger" witsen at hotmail.com dewittlinger

    Date: Sun Apr 27, 2008 4:30 am ((PDT))



      If one looses $50000 of product and equipment that hurts. I

don't think they are in financial jeopardy at the moment Mark was most

concern about the stainless steel equipment that was "STOLEN" he has

a bunch of tables a butter maker and a bulk tank that looks to be

about 100 gal. A cheese wrapper etc. I do not know what is left. I

will being going to his farm later this week so will have more info.

       Mark and they other farmers take NOTHING from BIG BROTHER. BIG

BROTHER takes from them.

        My guess is that other local farmers will do what's necessary

to help but I intend to find out from another farmer. Since Mark is

so self reliant not sure he would reveal a need.

         You have probably heard my story a half a dozen times before

but it has a little more meaning now.

          3 1/2 years ago at 68 years old I was very sick my

digestive system stopped  functioning, lots of stomach gas acid

reflux, pain etc. I thought if I go to the allopathic MDs they will

make new holes in me, cut out my intestines, poison me, maybe burn me

and maybe bury me destitute. YIKES not a pretty picture. What to do?

            I went to the library read about a dozen books search the

internet and found real answers only at WAPF. And Mark Nolts small

family farm provided what I was lacking plain and simple REAL FOOD

period. Am now about 99% [just my opinion] improved cant say cured

fda ama and all the other alphabet soups would not like that.

             Now to the main point being then 68 meant that I am on

Medicare AKA socialized medicine and being the gutless wonder that I

am, afraid of MDs decided to avoid them and eat and drink instead.

             In the last 3 1/2 years it cost Big Brother not even one

phony FRN for my Medicare, but  my copay went to Mark Nolt, but there

is side affects to Marks as I like to call it "medicine" I am

addicted to it I love raw milk, I love raw cream, I love raw butter,

i cant give it up.. Silly yes but does it not make a point.

              If I had submitted to the allopathic MDs what would the

cost have been to Medicare $50000 or more? So if maybe Mark save

Medicare $50000 in my case how have "they" rewarded him?

               Dare I say could there be a grand conspiracy a foot?

                       There is something wrong with this picture????

                            Don






> How's he doing financially? Should we try to help?



>



> Belinda



>



>



>



> >



> >            I just talked to Mark he is doing fairly well


considering


> > his ordeal yesterday of being HAND CUFFED and REMOVED from his


farm


> > as his wife and 10 hard working farm children watched in horror.


Upon


> > being released from custody Mark refused TPTB offer of a ride


home


> > and began walking the 15 miles. Some how a state senator from the


Ag.


> > Committee found out and called Marks wife and she had a good


neighbor


> > pick up Mark after he had walked about 7 miles, he said the walk



> > helped clear his brain a bit. Mark will be contacting a state


senator


> > to try and recover the lose of his stainless steel equipment as


this


> > is a greater loss than $20000 worth of food.



> >              Mark will NOT COMPROMISE HIS and OUR RIGHT to engage


in


> > private contracts as set forth in what use to be our Constitution



> > which supersedes state law in that respect. His is willing to


lose


> > EVERYTHING if that's what it takes. I have stated in prior posts


many


> > times that these are BRAVE FARMERS I did not say that to be corny


or


> > flatter them.



> >               Can anyone cite the Pa state law passed by the


state


> > lawmakers that a farmer must have a license or permit to sell raw



> > milk? Is it not true that the "license" only permits the sale of


raw


> > milk and not butter or cream how sane is that?



> >                Stay tuned this story is not going away lets hope


and


> > pray it does not get worse, Mark and his family have suffered


enough.


> >                A bit of good news is we have one big batch of


angry


> > farmers and consumers here in Pa. we are not going to take this



> > sitting down from these corporate fascists.



> >                         Don



> >



>


________________________________________________________________________

1b. Re: DEBBIE SINCE YOU ASK MORE DETAILS ON NOLT FARM RAID

    Posted by: "thuja1m" sas52302 at yahoo.com thuja1m

    Date: Sun Apr 27, 2008 8:19 am ((PDT))



I'd like to know what we could do to help as well.  To whom should we

write letters?  or where do we send money to help his family if

necessary?  I wrote to Don yesterday and said I was laying low because

of a surprise visit (we have 2 family cows) from ag and markets, but I

am ashamed of my lack of courage after reading the responses... so

please keep us posted and let us know how we can help.

Sarah

________________________________________________________________________

1c. Re: DEBBIE SINCE YOU ASK MORE DETAILS ON NOLT FARM RAID

    Posted by: "Debbie Chikousky" gdchik at mts.net dchikousky

    Date: Sun Apr 27, 2008 10:28 am ((PDT))



What did they "visit" you for?

Debbie Chikousky

Manitoba, Canada

gdchik at mts.net

"The person who wants something will find a way.

  The person who doesn't will find an excuse."



________________________________________________________________________

1d. Re: DEBBIE SINCE YOU ASK MORE DETAILS ON NOLT FARM RAID

    Posted by: "dewittlinger" witsen at hotmail.com dewittlinger

    Date: Sun Apr 27, 2008 10:59 am ((PDT))




>Sarah you have NOTHING to be ashamed of we have all been


preprogrammed without our knowing it to be SHEEPLE thru TV, MOVIES,

SCHOOLS, MSM and FEAR pouring forth from TPTB. And believe it or not

toxic foodless foods. We have all been affected by this but the

scales on our eyes are falling and we are able to see behind the

facade. The truth about raw milk is one powerful cleansing agent the

beginning of a route to connect all the dots exposing the whole foul

system we are laboring under. Why else do "they" fight so fiercely

against raw milk, truth is their enemy. DW wants me to tone down my

posts she is afraid "they" may come after me for exercising my free

speech. How sad our free nation has degenerated to a point where fear

of calling a spade a spade or lunatics could bring

retribution. Silence is the death of liberty, not sure who said that.

     "THE MORE CORRUPT THE STATE THE MORE NUMEROUS THE LAWS"

               TACITUS 56-120 AD

                         Don

________________________________________________________________________

2a. selling illegal white lightening

    Posted by: "Tramar Farms" tramar at tcaexpress.net tramar86

    Date: Sun Apr 27, 2008 4:56 am ((PDT))



what is happening is stupid harassment - we all know this.  but how many of
us that are selling the white stuff - be it legally or otherwise, would be
willing to do what Mark Nolt has done?  We don't have the resources in our
court to fight something like this....  like the men and women of 
yesteryear
bootlegging, you just keep a low profile.

ro

Messages in this topic (6)

________________________________________________________________________

2b. Re: selling illegal white lightening

    Posted by: "dewittlinger" witsen at hotmail.com dewittlinger

    Date: Sun Apr 27, 2008 6:37 am ((PDT))




>The basic design of the so called JUSTICE SYSTEM results in the


parasites sucking the money and the life's blood from the average

citizen the only winners are the lawyers the high priest black robed

judges and their system. It is little wonder we the people receive

any real JUSTICE. Our nation has 1/2 the worlds prison population

with only about 9% of worlds total population. Something is wrong

with this picture are we more criminally incline than the rest of the

world? Maybe so if we jail, HAND CUFF and FINGER PRINT our dairy

farmers. If the American were told how the JUSTICE system really

functioned would they even believe it? Just my opinion but is it not

merely a business? Just another way we have all been SCAMMED again?

Sorry I got on my soap box  but Mark has become like a brother and

son to me I cant help but vent my anger and frustration concerning

what the lunatic Nazis have done to Mark and his family.       Don


> what is happening is stupid harassment - we all know this.  but how


many of us that are selling the white stuff - be it legally or

otherwise, would be willing to do what Mark Nolt has done?  We don't

have the resources in our court to fight something like this....

like the men and women of yesteryear bootlegging, you just keep a low

profile.


> ro


________________________________________________________________________

2c. Re: selling illegal white lightening

    Posted by: "Kurtis Staven" kstaven at xplornet.com kstaven2000

    Date: Sun Apr 27, 2008 3:36 pm ((PDT))



Unfortunately that is what the government wants. They want us to

remain silent and underground rather than open and public. Coming

together under a single umbrella association would give us the

numbers to help protect ourselves. Why are we all so unwilling to

take this step to protect what we all say we believe in so strongly?



Kurtis

________________________________________________________________________

2e. Re: selling illegal white lightening

    Posted by: "labelleacres" bilherbs at aol.com labelleacres

    Date: Sun Apr 27, 2008 5:59 pm ((PDT))




> i don't know about anyone else, but i don't have the financial


resources for a team of lawyers...... etc


> ro



>


________________________________________________________________________

2f. Re: selling illegal white lightening

    Posted by: "Cheryl" anachrongirl at yahoo.com anachrongirl

    Date: Sun Apr 27, 2008 6:43 pm ((PDT))



"That's why I sent my money into Farm to Consumer Legal Defense Fund,

am counting on them to get me out of a jam should I get into one!"



Plus - this team of lawyers SPECIALIZES in raw milk law!



________________________________________________________________________

3a. Re: PA Farmer arrested for selling raw milk

    Posted by: "labelleacres" bilherbs at aol.com labelleacres

    Date: Sun Apr 27, 2008 8:27 am ((PDT))



Please note that the following is not directed at any individual, the

"you" is just a general youse guys.



If you needed a permit to do most anything that would net you some

income there might, just might, come  a time when you just HAD ENOUGH.

This could very well be the point most small farmers are coming to.



For a start we can look at vegetables, not nearly as controversial as

dairy. In order for me to legally sell vegetable  plants in Tennessee

I need to be a licensed green house, inspected, naturally.



Move another step forward and sell the veggies themselves and I need

an inspected sales place. Yes, the roadside stand should be inspected.

Also, an inspected storage area. Remember not to store any leftovers

or dairy in with the veggies. This separate refrigerator is for your

vegetables only.



If selling herbs and they dry out they must not, under any

circumstances, be sold unless you have dried them in a licensed

inspected facility. You see, dried herbs are a processed food.



Those who produce hay are looking at a future in which each field's

production would be numbered and have to be kept separate. This will

be a real treat for those of us with small 10-15 acre plots of hay ground.



OK, now for live  animals.  I'm not sure about any animals but goats

and sheep. At this point to legally sell a goat or sheep  I need to

have a scrapies tag attached to its ear.  This is true for private

sales as well as auctions. Simple, right? Not really. When you apply

for the scrapies tag they automatically sign you up for the National

Animal Identification System.  This wonderful system set you up for

future tagging of every animal on your farm, reporting every birth or

death within 24 hours and paying for every one of these events.



Ahhh yes, if only the farmer would abide by the law then all would be

well with the world!



As for cooperation. We have tried that but here's just a couple of

examples.  The gov't official comes to inspect the custom slaughter

and tells us to remove the screen door we'd thought would better help

keep flies out. The next gov't official asks why the doorway has trim.

We reply that we had a screen door there. He tells us to put it back.



The gov't officials come to the door waving our web page and accuse us

of selling cheese and butter. The web page is advertising workshops to

learn to make these things. No matter, the mantra is "All cheese and

butter must be made in a licensed inspected facility." We ask about

the demos we do at events, the fair, the programs for schools, the

mantra is the same, "All cheese and butter must be made in a licensed

inspected facility." We say that we are making cheese presses and

can't possibly sell them if we can't demonstrate them, we show them

the presses. Still, "All cheese and butter must be made in a licensed

inspected facility." We offer to build a licensed inspected facility

and ask if we can then bring people in to learn to make cheese and are

told that only employees would be allowed to handle the cheese. It's

all about cooperation, right? There are plenty more examples about

eggs, meat and dairy but my rant is about run out of steam.



Perhaps what small farmers can't understand is why they should jump

through all these hoops just to make a living. At times we sit and

wonder if the best thing wouldn't be to just sell this place to a

developer, blow the money in Vegas and live on welfare, eating the

crap the stores sell and running up medical bills for the general

public to pay. Perhaps one dairy farmer in PA is just sick of it. I

know one farmer in TN is!



I'm never able to keep up with all the posts on this group, especially

in the spring. Email me if you like and I'll try to respond.



Belinda



<lana.m.gibbons at ...> wrote:



http://www.counterpunch.org/cohen04262008.html

 (I love counterpunch!!!)

________________________________________________________________________

3b. Re: PA Farmer arrested for selling raw milk

    Posted by: "Suze Fisher" suzefisher at gwi.net suzefisher

    Date: Sun Apr 27, 2008 8:49 am ((PDT))





This is just completely and utterly outrageous.



The police state is here.





Suze



________________________________________________________________________

3c. Re: PA Farmer arrested for selling raw milk

    Posted by: "Lana Gibbons" lana.m.gibbons at gmail.com wiredpsyche

    Date: Sun Apr 27, 2008 9:07 am ((PDT))



Belinda,



I truly understand that small farmers have financial issues with these

things - and all the extra stress from the bureaucratic BS...  But why

bother to fight for legalization of these things in the first place if

farmers aren't going to respect it?  Sure, you could just sell on the black

market but that gives raw milk a bad image which is totally

counterproductive to the efforts made to legalize it.



Regarding the financial costs for the PA permit, according to

http://www.realmilk.com/raw-milk-future.html:



"There is no cost for the permit. There are costs for the tests that are

required to receive the permit.  Tests necessary to get the permit include:



   - TB test annually

   - Johanes test and program

   - Water tested twice a year

   - Monthly milk test (standard plate, choloform, growth inhibitors,

   Somatic cell count).

   - Milk test must be through a state monitored lab.



 In Pennsylvania, there are two kinds of raw milk permits: *Customer

container permit* <snip> and *Prefilled Container Permit* <snip>"

So basically, the cows must be healthy, they must be drinking "clean" water

and the milk has to be monitored (according to the same article: OPDC does

this per batch, not just per month!).  For prefilled containers, the dairy

must have acceptable sanitization equipment.  These requests are all within

reason and IMHO they are all things the farmer should be doing anyway,

permit or no.



I admire anyone running a small business as the US really isn't set up to

support small businesses.  It sucks, but it isn't just small farms that are

being harassed by requirements that cost money - every small business out

there has these seemingly impossible financial responsibilities to meet. 
 It

is part of being a small business.  It is very sad, especially when I think

about all the small businesses I've ever worked for... not one was breaking

even.  Then again, most of the large corporations I've worked for weren't

either.  It is sad and scary that almost everything in this country gets

done by borrowing money/being in debt (perhaps with the exception of the 
big

corporations we all have come to know and hate: Monsanto, Pharma, etc).



-Lana







Messages in this topic (15)

________________________________________________________________________

3d. Re: PA Farmer arrested for selling raw milk

    Posted by: "Rashad Tatum" tatum.rashad at gmail.com

    Date: Sun Apr 27, 2008 9:39 am ((PDT))



The state of PA is very hypocritical in requiring permits to ensure quality

raw milk considering most pasteurized milk is contaminated and has GM

hormones.



I'd say let the free market reign.  Get the nasty state out of our lives 
and

you will see peoples' health flourish.  More state involvement, more

problems.



On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 12:07 PM, Lana Gibbons <lana.m.gibbons at gmail.com>

wrote:



--

Rashad Tatum

----



"[W]e shall not fight our battles alone. There is a just God who presides

over the destinies of Nations, and who will raise up friends to fight our

battles for us. The battle, Sir, is not to the strong alone. It is to the

vigilant, the active, the brave." - Patrick Henry on the fight for

independence



"The moral and constitutional obligations of our representatives in

Washington are to protect our liberty, not coddle the world, precipitating

no-win wars, while bringing bankruptcy and economic turmoil to our people."

Freedom Under Siege, 1987 by Ron Paul



"I sincerely believe that banking establishments are more dangerous than

standing armies, and that the principle of spending money to be paid by

posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large

scale. " - Thomas Jefferson





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







Messages in this topic (15)

________________________________________________________________________

3e. Re: PA Farmer arrested for selling raw milk

    Posted by: "ChrissieGirl" bunnyearsfamily at gmail.com bunnyearsfamily

    Date: Sun Apr 27, 2008 12:22 pm ((PDT))



In light of all this, for a small farmer that is considering selling items,

how would I go about finding the rules and regs for my state (well, for any

state for that matter). My goal is to one day be able to sell bone broth,

fermented sodas, and such. Not any dairy product at this time. No desire to

get a licensed dairy going, plenty of those around so we just milk for

ourselves. How or where on earth would I look to find the specifics on

selling anything? I don't have a clue where to start! I happen to live in

WA, but I'll bet there are more wanna be farmers out there that are in the

same boat. Chrissie



Bunnyearsfamily Heritage Farm



www.firstclassskagitcounty.org



Stanwood, WA



________________________________________________________________________

3f. Re: PA Farmer arrested for selling raw milk

    Posted by: "labelleacres" bilherbs at aol.com labelleacres

    Date: Sun Apr 27, 2008 2:11 pm ((PDT))



I called the TN Dept of Agriculture main office in Nashville. The

extension office in your area might have a person who knows the law

but ours did not. They will send you all sorts of written material and

answer most of your questions.



When we built our custom slaughter they would not tell us what was

required. They told us to build it and they would inspect. Really nice

idea if you have the money to keep rebuilding. We ran into the

inspector at our local mom & pop store and got the information we needed

from him. You might run into the same thing. I think they want you to

hire a "specialist" to build your facility, we didn't have that kind

of money.



I'm 99% sure that you'll need a separate place to make your broth (not

your kitchen) as well as a separate storage area (not your

refrigerator) for pet food only.



Be aware that when your inspector changes the rules change as well.

Laws don't necessarily change, just the way individuals interpret them.



Belinda



________________________________________________________________________

3g. Re: PA Farmer arrested for selling raw milk

    Posted by: "Nanette J. Landen" nlanden at knology.net

    Date: Sun Apr 27, 2008 5:18 pm ((PDT))



Excellent rant!!!!



I don't need or expect the government to "save" me from anything.  Why a

license on raw milk?  Because the government wants to big brother the small

farmers.



In TN you can get a permit to spray commercial round up as part of your 
lawn

business for 25 dollars.  If you want to sell NATIVE PLANTS you pay 200

dollars for a license.  Explain that to me!



Nanette L.





________________________________________________________________________

3i. Re: PA Farmer arrested for selling raw milk

    Posted by: "Michael" slethnobotanist at gmail.com slethnobotanist

    Date: Sun Apr 27, 2008 6:32 pm ((PDT))



Lana,



Why does the *****state***** have to support small businesses? Why

don't they just get the heck out of the way?



And to the extent that the state wants its piece of the pie, those

burdens are increased proportionally.



But even the ***very idea*** that the state can regulate what one

produces for food and what one can eat for food should be noxious to

anyone who is a lover of liberty.



For anyone who wants a good dose of how the state can literally

destroy people economically with their seemingly "commonsense" notions

of regulations, I would highly suggest Walter Williams, _The State

Against Blacks_. It is an older read that is just as relevant today as

it was when first written.



http://www.amazon.com/State-Against-Blacks-Walter-Williams/dp/0070703787



Hats off to people like Mark Nolt. http://www.lancasterfarming.com/node/783 



It is just a reminder of the words

of Patrick Henry, "Give me liberty or give me the lesser of two

evils." Oh wait, he didn't say that :-)



Michael

 --

"And true manhood is shown not in the choice of a celibate life. On

the contrary, the prize in the contest of men is won by him who has

trained himself by the discharge of the duties of husband and father

and by the supervision of a household, regardless of pleasure and

pain. It is won by him, I say, who in the midst of his solicitude for

his family, shows himself inseparable from the love of God."



- Clement of Alexandria



________________________________________________________________________

3j. Re: PA Farmer arrested for selling raw milk

    Posted by: "labelleacres" bilherbs at aol.com labelleacres

    Date: Sun Apr 27, 2008 7:15 pm ((PDT))



Lana,



I understand that you believe the farmer should simply get the

necessary permits to do what they need to do to make a living. My

feeling is that I shouldn't have to have a permit to sell you

something, anything.



If this country is about freedom I should be able to eat whatever I

want which in turn means you should be able to sell it to me. It makes

me madder than a hatter to hear that officials have told people to

"buy a cow" if they want to drink raw milk.



Belinda







________________________________________________________________________

3k. Re: PA Farmer arrested for selling raw milk

    Posted by: "Michael Anton Parker" michaelantonparker at gmail.com
michaelantonparker

    Date: Sun Apr 27, 2008 9:14 pm ((PDT))





Belinda,

Wow!  That was a *great* thorough post and very inspiring! I wasn't

even aware of those regulatory issues with veggies and so on. I

totally agree with you and Mark Nolt should be celebrated as a great

person for standing by the truth and not capitulating to government

corruption.  I've followed the Nolt saga here in Pennsylvania and

though I don't know him personally I know a great many of his

colleagues in the area closer to me.  It's incredibly tragic.  The

issue is being able to sell raw cream and butter and other forms of

milk besides just the fresh whole milk.  It just doesn't make sense to

have those restrictions.  On the bright side, raw milk in PA seems to

be doing pretty well in general.  I know a farmer who got a bottling

license recently and has his milk sold in a few spots in Philadelphia.

 In fact, at the moment there's a small store that's open almost

everyday and stocks raw cow milk from three different farms, each with

a different breed of cow, and at least one source of raw goat milk.

As far as raw butter and cream, well, that's still done in secretive

ways by the farmers I know, or via "buying clubs", which might be kind

of legal I think.  I don't know if this is true, but I was told that

raw cow and goat milk can be legally sold in PA, but not sheep milk!

I have a great local source of raw sheep milk and it's pretty sad that

they suffer this arbitrary regulatory nonsense.  They have a license

to sell their raw cow milk, yet have to treat their sheep milk

differently and have to be careful about selling it at all.



We still urgently need dramatic widespread strong revisions legalizing

unrestricted on-farm sales of anything a farmer produces. It's a basic

right.  The current nickel-and-dime regulatory hoopla about raw milk

in CA and elsewhere is missing the forest for the trees.



Mike





Messages in this topic (15)

________________________________________________________________________

3l. Re: PA Farmer arrested for selling raw milk

    Posted by: "Rashad Tatum" tatum.rashad at gmail.com

    Date: Sun Apr 27, 2008 9:35 pm ((PDT))



The elite "banksters" who run our government (and pretty much the whole

world) want to extend their control grid and establish a scientific global

dictatorship.



Watch EndGame: Blueprint for Global Enslavement on Google Video.



http://whatistheendgame.com

http://infowars.com



________________________________________________________________________



1a. RE DEPLORABLE PLIGHT OF PA FARMERS

    Posted by: "dewittlinger" witsen at hotmail.com dewittlinger

    Date: Sat Apr 26, 2008 3:41 am ((PDT))



       Kurtis only thing I would add is Pa. is a strong raw dairy state as
is Calif. If "they" lets call them what they are the evil ones are able to
stamp out raw dairy in Calif. or Pa. how long will it be for the other
states to fall. I fear that even here on this site their is not a good
understanding of the WAR we are in, a WAR for our freedoms if we lose raw
dairy will freedom of speech be next?. Dare I say there is a conspiracy to
stamp out raw dairy or have "they" been able to remove the term conspiracy
from our language and we must not even think such a thing. Is this really
happening in our free America?

                      Don



_________________

1b. Re: RE DEPLORABLE PLIGHT OF PA FARMERS

    Posted by: "Kurtis Staven" kstaven at xplornet.com kstaven2000

    Date: Sat Apr 26, 2008 5:41 pm ((PDT))



Is it happening. My personal opinion is YES!!!!!!



We aren't in any better shape up here in Canada. People also do not tend to
realize that what happens in the USA or CANADA will have a policy effect on
the other. Historically that has proven to be correct. We are in a war that
none of us can afford to see lost. We really need the public support here 
to
stand up and say "NO MORE!"



Recent history has taken away the right for farmers to sell farm fresh meat
up here and produce isn't far behind under a draft proposal in the guise of
"food security and safety" Educate everyone we can to the reality of this
situation and lobby the media en mass is really what needs to be done. That
requires farmers and the raw milk movement to play a proactive game here 
and
be highly organized.

I wonder how many here are willing to take that stance and come out from
under the radar?



Kurtis

________________________________________________________________________

2a. davidgumpert.squarespace.com - Journal - Pennsylvania Raw Milk Dairm

    Posted by: "Gloria Wittlinger" witsen at hotmail.com dewittlinger

    Date: Sat Apr 26, 2008 4:13 am ((PDT))



No videos were allowed that's interesting can anyone site that law? Videos
are popping up every where to watch us but not them guess they did not want
people to see them on TV arresting a farmer for milking a cow or making
cheese perhaps it would taint the jury pool. Will barnyard videos to watch
your cow be next? Sound far fetched but did you that know Comcast admitted
to working on a camera for their new cable boxes?  So they can watch us
while we watch them.  Perhaps we will get a discount for letting them watch
us.   Don

http://www.thecompletepatient.com/journal/2008/4/25/pennsylvania-raw-mil  
k-da
irman-mark-nolt-arrested-and-release.html?lastPage=true#comment1448072

________________________________________________________________________

2b. Re: davidgumpert.squarespace.com - Journal - Pennsylvania Raw Milk D

    Posted by: "labelleacres" bilherbs at aol.com labelleacres

    Date: Sat Apr 26, 2008 4:44 am ((PDT))



The stores in this area had a state inspector that was driving them crazy.
They finally banded together and almost all were keeping video recording
devices in the store for her visits. She is no longer with them. The videos
work, if you can use them.



I think many farmers have the "it can't happen to me" attitude and 
consumers
don't think about it until their milk supply dries up. This is another
illustration of why we should all put our money where our mouth is is
support the Farm to Consumer Defense Fund.



Another thing to do is keep a neighbor's number nearby to call should
something happen, they call another and suddenly you have a crowd of folks
as witness to the insanity we call gov't.



The whole thing really stinks!



Belinda