From aqmstaffo at mailbag.com Sat Jan 3 12:37:11 2009 From: aqmstaffo at mailbag.com (Daniel Stafford) Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2009 11:37:11 -0600 Subject: [CitizensTruth] Fw: We're Number One With Special Prosecutor For Bush/Cheney Question On Obama Site, Voting STILL Open, New "Convict Dick & W" Cap and More In-Reply-To: <011801c96d5a$47119a70$dffb96d8@compaquser> References: <011801c96d5a$47119a70$dffb96d8@compaquser> Message-ID: <495FA247.2070705@mailbag.com> Carol Wolman wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "The Pen" > To: > Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 9:21 AM > Subject: We're Number One With Special Prosecutor For Bush/Cheney > Question On Obama Site, Voting STILL Open, New "Convict Dick & W" Cap > and More > > >> >> SPECIAL PROSECUTOR QUESTION NUMBER ONE NOW ON THE OBAMA SITE >> >> Thanks to your valiant participation, the question we told you about, >> asking about a special prosecutor for the gravest crimes of the >> Bush/Cheney administration is now NUMBER ONE on the official Obama >> site. And as of last check they are still open for voting. So if you >> have not voted already, the easiest way to find the question is >> >> 1. Sign in at http://change.gov/openforquestions and remember you >> have to set up a login for yourself at that site to vote >> >> 2. Click on "Additional Issues" under "Pick a Topic" on the left >> >> 3. The special prosecutor question started by "Bob Fertik" should be >> the one leading the top of that section (and now leading all >> questions over all topics with 16,000 votes). >> >> 4. Look right for the checkbox, mouseover it so it goes from white to >> dark, then click to cast your vote >> >> Please cast your vote as soon as possible, as the voting may close at >> any time. They may not work straight through holiday weekends, but we >> DO, >> >> What this means is that Obama will now have to ANSWER this question >> on his official site, just as if he had accepted this question at a >> real press conference. And we're going to keep the heat on in every >> other possible way, just stay tuned. >> >> THEN GET YOUR NEW CONVICT DICK & W CAP TO DEMONSTRATE WITH >> >> As we in the White House accountability movement look forward, >> whether it's impeachment, federal prosecution, or state by state >> prosecutions as a last resort, the key word is "Convict". And that is >> why we have introduced a new cap to wear to continue to carry the >> ball with that says "CONVICT DICK & W" in red, white and blue. If you >> want to be one of the first to get one of these new caps please >> submit the page below. >> >> New Convict Dick & W Cap: http://www.usalone.com/convict_cap.php >> >> We are not setting a price for these. You can have one for a >> contribution of any amount. We just want to put as many out there as >> possible. And we will have much more news for you soon about planned >> actions to pressure prosecutors at all levels to step up to the plate >> and do their duty. >> >> We are in this thing for the long haul, folks. The criminal dictators >> of the future can only be constrained by pursuing prosecution NOW of >> the criminal dictators of the present and past. In some cases it has >> taken many years of work by dedicated activists to bring criminal >> former heads of state to justice. >> >> We the people will never forget the crimes of the Bush/Cheney >> administration. How can we? Their willful disasters will cripple our >> economy, our military, every aspect of our government and our own >> personal lives for many years to come. But if we just continue to >> speak out, someday soon enough there WILL be prosecutors at some >> level who will have the integrity, backbone and determination to do >> what Congress to their eternal shame did not. >> >> Please take action NOW, so we can win all victories that are supposed >> to be ours, and forward this alert as widely as possible. >> >> If you would like to get alerts like these, you can do so at >> http://www.usalone.com/in.htm >> >> Powered by The People's Email Network Copyright 2008, Patent pending, >> All rights reserved >> > > From dimension04 at sbcglobal.net Sun Jan 4 16:31:29 2009 From: dimension04 at sbcglobal.net (Connie Smith) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 15:31:29 -0600 Subject: [CitizensTruth] "We lied about everything" - alleged NASA quote Message-ID: <29661C7545004860B6DC1C87C84D91C3@InspironConnie> A movie entitled "Moon Rising" will have a special premier in L.A. on January 22. Details are at the "moonrising" link below. I found the trailer on the website to be not the least bit helpful in illustrating any truth to the startling quote attributed to a BellCom/NASA Insider -- that everything that NASA has told us about the moon is not true. There's even a better trailer on another website (link below), but nothing too convincing is there, either. The extensive moonscape footage in both trailers is almost annoying in that it takes a bit of your time, but delivers nothing more than one intriguing anomaly on the moon. (To me, anyway.) Also, there is, as one reviewer describes it, "a cinematic bombardment of music." I agree, based on what little I've seen. The intense soundtrack seems way out of proportion to what one is seeing -- although, maybe out of context -- in the trailers. However, filmmaker Jose Escamilla has a legendary reputation in his world for coming up with data and supposed footage and interviews that no one else has done, most especially in his previous effort: "UFO, The Greatest Story Ever Denied." That film's premise opens with "somewhere in the back of your mind" you've always known or suspected the truth about the reality of UFOs. Due to my own extensive personal experiences, I have that info in the FRONT of my mind, and have had, for going on 30 years now. So that, for me, lends some credibility to this filmmaker -- which in turn lends some credibility to his Moon Rising premise(s), which apparently are -- -- that NASA knows full well there are alien-created structures on the moon, maybe even settlements. -- and our moon-landings did not take place. The reported quote on the second trailer is a response to a questioner saying, "So you guys lied about a lot of things..." And the NASA Insider allegedly saying, "No, we didn't just lie about certain things. We lied about everything." The Moon Rising movie premiering on January 22 purports to prove this. The main reason I'm distributing this still-to-me-uncertain information is the almost predictable pattern I've noticed with cover-ups. The most important questions get ignored. When JFK was killed when I was 15, I was puzzled and ever-remained so that his alleged assassin, the nefarious "Communist, U.S. defector-to-Russia" Lee Harvey Oswald did not at all brag or gloat about his enormous accomplishment of taking down the leader of the free world. He was actually denying it! He was even saying he was "just a patsy" -- meaning that others did it, then framed him. As we breathlessly waited for more insight into that, he was shot and killed by Jack Ruby, who in turn suddenly died in prison not long afterwards. Why would Oswald deny his communistic triumph and worldwide claim to fame? More specifically, why were we told the story that he did it when he said he didn't -- and even the authorities admitted there was no gunpowder residue on him, that he had not fired a gun that day. Same with Osama bin Laden and 9/11. We saw some videos that didn't look like him "claiming credit" in a language that most Americans don't speak. But in an extensive interview in a Pakistani newspaper, bin Laden is quoted explaining why he did not do it, couldn't do it, and "the interests" who probably did. Once again, no chest-pounding triumph for an enemy's SUCCESS in attacking "the Great Satan." Instead, articulate explanations quite to the contrary. Not to mention the fact that Mohammed Atta and gang were reported by all their neighbors to be drinking, drugging, womanizing yahoos -- not "Muslim fundamentalists" at all. By Islamic standards, not one of them would be allowed into the heaven of Allah. MEANING -- once again we were told what to believe about "who did it." But once again, it didn't make any sense. On back to Roswell, 1947. Why would an intelligent Air Force officer not be able to identify "weather balloon" remains -- which we were told was the story after the apparent truth was revealed the day before, that instead they were strange-quality pieces of an evidently alien craft. And so, likewise, with moon landings. First, we are to believe that such missions of excessively complicated precision problem-solving were carried out with computers with less capacity than the one at my fingertips nowadays. And MAINLY, there has never before in history been a pathway carved out by man -- whether across dangerous oceans, monumental mountains, or deadly deserts -- that didn't result in further development, to the point of regular traffic and commerce being the norm from then on. But the moon? If we achieved that, why then did we not proceed to establish ourselves there and fly back and forth from then on? For heaven's sake, if it were true, by now wouldn't we would have "McMoonald's" franchises operating there full-steam?! Once again, what we've been told doesn't make sense -- and as one speaker on the Moon Rising trailer states, this may be "the most monumental lie in history." As to why "all those good guys would lie," it's psychologically understandable. But we'll leave that for another day. Connie http://www.moonrising-themovie.com/home.html better trailer http://www.disclose.tv/action/viewvideo/15178/Moon_Rising_by_Jose_Escamilla____Movie_Trailer/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From richardfobes at hotmail.com Sun Jan 4 23:11:53 2009 From: richardfobes at hotmail.com (Richard Fobes) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 22:11:53 -0600 Subject: [CitizensTruth] Question On Change.GOV In-Reply-To: <495FA247.2070705@mailbag.com> References: <011801c96d5a$47119a70$dffb96d8@compaquser> <495FA247.2070705@mailbag.com> Message-ID: There is also a question on this website that reads: "Given the scientific & physical evidence and eyewitness testimony that all contradict the reports put out by the 9/11 Commission, NIST, FEMA, NORAD & the FAA, how do you plan to provide us with an accurate account of what actually happened on 9/11?" You can click here then type in "given the scientific and physical evidence" in 'Search Questions' area. > Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 11:37:11 -0600 > From: aqmstaffo at mailbag.com > To: PDI at illinoisprogressives.org; AB_Progressives at yahoogroups.com; progressive at yahoogroups.com; DiehardDems at yahoogroups.com; CitizensTruth at six.pairlist.net > Subject: Re: [CitizensTruth] Fw: We're Number One With Special Prosecutor For Bush/Cheney Question On Obama Site, Voting STILL Open, New "Convict Dick & W" Cap and More > > > > Carol Wolman wrote: > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "The Pen" > > To: > > Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 9:21 AM > > Subject: We're Number One With Special Prosecutor For Bush/Cheney > > Question On Obama Site, Voting STILL Open, New "Convict Dick & W" Cap > > and More > > > > > >> > >> SPECIAL PROSECUTOR QUESTION NUMBER ONE NOW ON THE OBAMA SITE > >> > >> Thanks to your valiant participation, the question we told you about, > >> asking about a special prosecutor for the gravest crimes of the > >> Bush/Cheney administration is now NUMBER ONE on the official Obama > >> site. And as of last check they are still open for voting. So if you > >> have not voted already, the easiest way to find the question is > >> > >> 1. Sign in at http://change.gov/openforquestions and remember you > >> have to set up a login for yourself at that site to vote > >> > >> 2. Click on "Additional Issues" under "Pick a Topic" on the left > >> > >> 3. The special prosecutor question started by "Bob Fertik" should be > >> the one leading the top of that section (and now leading all > >> questions over all topics with 16,000 votes). > >> > >> 4. Look right for the checkbox, mouseover it so it goes from white to > >> dark, then click to cast your vote > >> > >> Please cast your vote as soon as possible, as the voting may close at > >> any time. They may not work straight through holiday weekends, but we > >> DO, > >> > >> What this means is that Obama will now have to ANSWER this question > >> on his official site, just as if he had accepted this question at a > >> real press conference. And we're going to keep the heat on in every > >> other possible way, just stay tuned. > >> > >> THEN GET YOUR NEW CONVICT DICK & W CAP TO DEMONSTRATE WITH > >> > >> As we in the White House accountability movement look forward, > >> whether it's impeachment, federal prosecution, or state by state > >> prosecutions as a last resort, the key word is "Convict". And that is > >> why we have introduced a new cap to wear to continue to carry the > >> ball with that says "CONVICT DICK & W" in red, white and blue. If you > >> want to be one of the first to get one of these new caps please > >> submit the page below. > >> > >> New Convict Dick & W Cap: http://www.usalone.com/convict_cap.php > >> > >> We are not setting a price for these. You can have one for a > >> contribution of any amount. We just want to put as many out there as > >> possible. And we will have much more news for you soon about planned > >> actions to pressure prosecutors at all levels to step up to the plate > >> and do their duty. > >> > >> We are in this thing for the long haul, folks. The criminal dictators > >> of the future can only be constrained by pursuing prosecution NOW of > >> the criminal dictators of the present and past. In some cases it has > >> taken many years of work by dedicated activists to bring criminal > >> former heads of state to justice. > >> > >> We the people will never forget the crimes of the Bush/Cheney > >> administration. How can we? Their willful disasters will cripple our > >> economy, our military, every aspect of our government and our own > >> personal lives for many years to come. But if we just continue to > >> speak out, someday soon enough there WILL be prosecutors at some > >> level who will have the integrity, backbone and determination to do > >> what Congress to their eternal shame did not. > >> > >> Please take action NOW, so we can win all victories that are supposed > >> to be ours, and forward this alert as widely as possible. > >> > >> If you would like to get alerts like these, you can do so at > >> http://www.usalone.com/in.htm > >> > >> Powered by The People's Email Network Copyright 2008, Patent pending, > >> All rights reserved > >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > CitizensTruth mailing list > CitizensTruth at six.pairlist.net > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/citizenstruth > website: http://citizenstruth.info _________________________________________________________________ It?s the same Hotmail?. If by ?same? you mean up to 70% faster. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_broad1_122008 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mjkirk12 at yahoo.com Mon Jan 5 11:17:12 2009 From: mjkirk12 at yahoo.com (Mike Kirk) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 08:17:12 -0800 (PST) Subject: [CitizensTruth] Bush archives - 50x larger than Clinton Message-ID: <419549.41767.qm@web83810.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Over 100 Terabytes of computer data plus 25,000 boxes of White House documents.? I guess being secretive generates a lot of records. http://www.fas.org/blog/secrecy/2009/01/transfer_of_bush_records.html "The impending transfer of Bush Administration records to the custody of the National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) will challenge the capacity of the Archives to absorb them because of their enormous volume and the diverse formats of various electronic records. "But there is also a fundamental question concerning the integrity of the transfer process, which relies on the good faith of executive branch officials and which can be subverted by design or neglect." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mjkirk12 at yahoo.com Mon Jan 5 16:53:02 2009 From: mjkirk12 at yahoo.com (Mike Kirk) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 13:53:02 -0800 (PST) Subject: [CitizensTruth] Panetta head of CIA? Message-ID: <472707.57093.qm@web83814.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Wasn't Panetta witness to Cheney's outburst ("yes, the order still stands!") on 9/11 regarding the plane heading for the Pentagon? Will he remember and investigate this as head of the CIA? -Mike -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mjkirk12 at yahoo.com Mon Jan 5 16:55:54 2009 From: mjkirk12 at yahoo.com (Mike Kirk) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 13:55:54 -0800 (PST) Subject: [CitizensTruth] Panetta head of CIA? In-Reply-To: <472707.57093.qm@web83814.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <345433.65356.qm@web83806.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Oops, my mistake.? Norman Mineta,? not Panetta. -Mike --- On Mon, 1/5/09, Mike Kirk wrote: From: Mike Kirk Subject: [CitizensTruth] Panetta head of CIA? To: citizenstruth at six.pairlist.net Date: Monday, January 5, 2009, 3:53 PM Wasn't Panetta witness to Cheney's outburst ("yes, the order still stands!") on 9/11 regarding the plane heading for the Pentagon? Will he remember and investigate this as head of the CIA? -Mike _______________________________________________ CitizensTruth mailing list CitizensTruth at six.pairlist.net http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/citizenstruth website: http://citizenstruth.info -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rmigalla at earthlink.net Mon Jan 5 17:10:29 2009 From: rmigalla at earthlink.net (Robin Migalla) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 16:10:29 -0600 Subject: [CitizensTruth] 3 events - food, holism, and mammograms Message-ID: <01C96F50.21CBA1F0.rmigalla@earthlink.net> Hi All, Here are 3 upcoming events that might be of interest to you... After 30 years, Is Mammography Really Enough? - FREE - at the monthly Elgin Weston A. Price Group meeting - Saturday, January 10th @ 9:30am. Presented by Janine M. Jozwiak (she's really got some awesome credentials!). See here for details... http://westonaprice-elgin.org/Updates/updatesindex.html Food Matters - FREE screening at Gail Borden Public Library - Monday, January 12th @ 6:30pm. I will be leading a discussion following the film (guaranteed to be interesting!). See here for details... http://foodmatters.bravenewtheaters.com/screening/show/12011-elgin If you'd like to register through the library, go here... http://gailbweb.gailborden.info/evanced/lib/eventsignup.asp?ID=2331&rts= &disptype=&ret=eventcalendar.asp&pointer=&returnToSearch=&SignupType=&nu m=0&ad=&dt=mo&mo=1/1/2009&df=calendar&EventType=ALL&Lib=0&AgeGroup=None% 2C+Adult%2C+Family%2C+All+ages%2C+Adult+over+17+yrs%2C+Seniors&LangType= 0&WindowMode=&noheader=&lad=&pub=1&nopub=&page=&pgdisp= If the above link doesn't work, just go to www.gailborden.info and mouse-over the "Calendar" menu, and click on "Adult Calendar" and you will find it on the 12th. Holism: Several Views - A Workshop at the Edgar Cayce Holistic Center in Des Plaines - Saturday, January 17th @ 1:30pm. Presented by me (be sure to wear comfortable clothing and be ready to get a fabulous - but not too strenuous - workout). See here for details... http://guest.cvent.com/EVENTS/Info/Summary.aspx?i=44d40999-ab2e-44d2-83b e-c618285810c1 Please pass this info onto others you feel might benefit. Thanks so much, Robin www.healthforlifecoloncare.com P.S. Please check our Weston A. Price group "Events" page at http://westonaprice-elgin.org/Pages/events.html to keep up-to-date or let me know if you have an event you'd like posted. From futurenotwritten at yahoo.com Wed Jan 7 00:55:57 2009 From: futurenotwritten at yahoo.com (Jay Becker) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 21:55:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: [CitizensTruth] Rally Friday against Israeli Massacre in Gaza! Message-ID: <358882.58495.qm@web33504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Please forward this widely, call and text friends, etc., etc. Silence = Complicity! MASS PROTEST AGAINST ISRAEL'S ATTACKS ON GAZA Rally this Friday at the Daley Plaza at 50 W Washington St. and then March to the Israeli Consulate Gather at the Daley Plaza at 3:30 pm, then march to the Israeli Consulate on Wacker and Michigan Please Do Not bring signs, they will be distributed at the rally Buses arrangements will be announced soon! Last Friday over 5,000 people showed up! ?This week, our Goal is 10,000 ppl. This is the least you can do to show your support for the people of Gaza Stop the Killing of the Palestinian People! Stop the War and Siege on Gaza! End All U.S. Aid to?Israel! End the Israeli Occupation of Palestine! TELL EVERYONE YOU KNOW! ?EMAIL, TEXT, CALL, FACEBOOK, ETC. Sponsored by?Coalition for Justice in Palestine?(this Coalition consists of the Palestinian, Arab, Muslim, and Arab Church groups that organized the mass protest on Friday, Jan. 2, 2009);?and by American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee?(ADC)-Chicago,?American Friends Service Committee?(AFSC), American Muslims for Palestine (AMP), ANSWER Chicago,?Arab American Action Network?(AAAN), Arab Jewish Partnership for Peace and Justice in the Middle East, Arab Student Union-Moraine Valley Community College, Chicago Coalition Against War and Racism (CCAWR), Chicago Islamic Center, Children of Palestine, Comite Anti-Militarizacion20(CAMY),?Council on American-Islamic Relations?(CAIR)-Chicago, Council of Islamic Organizations of Greater Chicago (CIOGC), Fight Back! Newspaper, Gay LiberationNetwork (GLN), Guadalupe Mission-Little Village,?International Socialist Organization?(ISO), International Solidarity Movement (ISM)-Chicago, Islamic Community Center of?Illinois?(ICCI),?Jewish Voice for Peace(JVP)-Chicago, March 10th?Movement, Mosque Foundation,?Muslim American Society?(MAS) Freedom Foundation,?Muslim Student Association?(MSA)-University of Chicago, National?Boricua?Human Rights Network, Palestine Solidarity Group (PSG)-Chicago, Palestine?Humanitarian Aid Project?(PHAP), Palestinian American Community Center, Peace Pledge-Chicago, St. George Antiochian Orthodox Church,?Students for Justice in Palestine?(SJP)-DePaul University, SJP-Northwestern University (NU), SJP-University of Illinois-Champaign, SJP-University of Illinois at Chicago (UIC), United Holy Land Fund (UHLF), United StatesPalestinian Community Network?(USPCN)-Chicago, Wright College Students for Peace and Justice -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From richardfobes at hotmail.com Wed Jan 7 18:07:07 2009 From: richardfobes at hotmail.com (Richard Fobes) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 17:07:07 -0600 Subject: [CitizensTruth] Messages from Water by Masaru Emoto In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This is bizarre, and interesting: Masaru Emoto: Messages from Water _________________________________________________________________ Windows LiveTM Hotmail?: Chat. Store. Share. Do more with mail. http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_hm_justgotbetter_howitworks_012009 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mjkirk12 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 7 18:21:04 2009 From: mjkirk12 at yahoo.com (Mike Kirk) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 15:21:04 -0800 (PST) Subject: [CitizensTruth] Messages from Water by Masaru Emoto In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <449123.58332.qm@web83813.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> I first heard of this in the 2004 movie:? What the BLEEP do we know? http://www.whatthebleep.com??? Highly recommended - if you haven't seen it. -Mike --- On Wed, 1/7/09, Richard Fobes wrote: From: Richard Fobes Subject: [CitizensTruth] Messages from Water by Masaru Emoto To: "Citizen's.Truth" Date: Wednesday, January 7, 2009, 5:07 PM #yiv793480885 .hmmessage P { margin:0px;padding:0px;} #yiv793480885 { font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;} This is bizarre, and interesting: Masaru Emoto: Messages from Water Windows LiveTM Hotmail?: Chat. Store. Share. Do more with mail. See how it works. _______________________________________________ CitizensTruth mailing list CitizensTruth at six.pairlist.net http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/citizenstruth website: http://citizenstruth.info -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aqmstaffo at mailbag.com Wed Jan 7 18:39:16 2009 From: aqmstaffo at mailbag.com (Daniel Stafford) Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 17:39:16 -0600 Subject: [CitizensTruth] After Hours Film Society of Downer's Grove screening I.O.U.S.A. Message-ID: <49653D24.2020802@mailbag.com> *_I.O.U.S.A _* * With Special Guest Host -- Acclaimed Documentary Film Director * *Patrick Creadon * * Rated PG, 85 minutes running time* Monday, February 9th, 7:30pm http://www.afterhoursfilmsociety.com/menu.htm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mjkirk12 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 7 20:57:41 2009 From: mjkirk12 at yahoo.com (Mike Kirk) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 17:57:41 -0800 (PST) Subject: [CitizensTruth] After Hours Film Society of Downer's Grove screening I.O.U.S.A. In-Reply-To: <49653D24.2020802@mailbag.com> Message-ID: <410224.39315.qm@web83804.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> CNN/US has agreed to play I.O.U.S.A. on cable TV.? (The rest of the world knows we are broke, so it would be pointless to air it on CNN/International).? >From their email announcement: "The public has spoken, and we've listened. In response to demand for information about our country's financial challenges, CNN/U.S. will air the broadcast premiere of the acclaimed documentary I.O.U.S.A. on on Saturday, January 10 at 2:00 p.m. EST and on Sunday, January 11 at 3:00 p.m. EST. Accompanying the documentary will be an unscripted panel discussion with policy leaders about various economic solutions currently under consideration." --- On Wed, 1/7/09, Daniel Stafford wrote: From: Daniel Stafford Subject: [CitizensTruth] After Hours Film Society of Downer's Grove screening I.O.U.S.A. To: "IL Progressive Dems" , "Citizen's Truth" Date: Wednesday, January 7, 2009, 5:39 PM I.O.U.S.A With Special Guest Host -- Acclaimed Documentary Film Director Patrick Creadon Rated PG, 85 minutes running time Monday, February 9th, 7:30pm http://www.afterhoursfilmsociety.com/menu.htm _______________________________________________ CitizensTruth mailing list CitizensTruth at six.pairlist.net http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/citizenstruth website: http://citizenstruth.info -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From edward_rynearson at yahoo.com Thu Jan 8 01:01:22 2009 From: edward_rynearson at yahoo.com (Edward Rynearson) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 22:01:22 -0800 (PST) Subject: [CitizensTruth] Without a questioning media, the questions go unanswered Message-ID: <319543.16608.qm@web30008.mail.mud.yahoo.com> http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/133734 Is Obama a natural-born citizen? Comments 48| Recommend 14 Thomas J. Lucente Jr., The Lima (Ohio) News January 6, 2009 - 8:44PM LIMA, Ohio ? The most underreported story of 2008 has to be the continuing saga of a few brave souls who are working through the courts to force President-elect Barack Obama to prove his citizenship. In fact, a report from The Associated Press dismissed the whole thing as nothing but Internet conspiracy theories. This lack of coverage is just the latest example of why I have mostly lost hope for the mainstream media in the United States. Thanks to the lack of media coverage, many of you reading this may be unaware of the multitude of lawsuits challenging Obama?s citizenship and his legal right to be president. The Framers, when putting together our Constitution, inserted Article 2, Section 1, Clause 4, which tells us. ?No Person except a natural born Citizen ? shall be eligible to the Office of President.? The same clause prevents Austrian-born California Gov. Arnold A. Schwarzenegger from being president. There have been at least 17 lawsuits filed in state and federal courts alleging that Obama does not meet the Constitutional requirement of being a natural-born citizen. The lawsuits filed all have varying theories on Obama?s citizenship, including that he was not born in the United States, that he became a citizen of Indonesia when he was adopted, or that he had dual citizenship at birth, which means he was not a natural-born citizen. The lawsuit with which I am most familiar was filed in a federal court in Pennsylvania by Philip Berg, a Democrat. That lawsuit alleges that Obama was born in Mombasa, Kenya. Berg says he has a recording of Obama?s grandmother, Sarah Obama, saying she was present when Obama was born in Kenya. Berg further claims that Obama himself and other members of his family have made conflicting statements as to where he was actually born. Additionally, Kenyan officials have said Obama was born in Kenya. Much of the controversy surrounds Obama?s birth certificate. The state of Hawaii has refused to release the long-form or ?vault? copy of the birth certificate. Obama has also refused to release the long-form copy. Back in June, the campaign did release a short-form certificate, which is a certificate created by Hawaii that says the long-form certificate is on file. However, according to Berg, the campaign only released the short-form certificate to The Daily Kos, a left-wing blog, and FactCheck.org, a pro-Obama organization. Additionally, Berg has called the short-form certificate a forgery. Berg brought the case to the U.S. Supreme Court and was initially denied by Justices David Souter and Anthony Kennedy before submitting his petition to Justice Antonin Scalia. The Supreme Court has scheduled two conferences on the case, one for Friday and a second one for Jan. 16, four days before Obama will take office. I do not know if Obama is a natural-born citizen. My instincts tell me that it would have been difficult for him to hide that fact for so long. However, citizenship law can be very murky and Obama?s reticence on the matter is disturbing. I know from personal experience that when dealing with duel citizenship issues, birth certificates are usually filed in both countries. The state of Hawaii?s statement that it has a birth certificate on file does nothing in solving the mystery of where Obama was born. It merely tells us that his birth was recorded in Hawaii. The whole controversy might be nothing more than a crazy conspiracy theory. Then again, it might be a valid argument. The whole matter could easily be settled by the state of Hawaii releasing the long-form certificate, something the Supreme Court can force if it accepts the case for arguments. There is much at stake here. This is a serious constitutional question. If we find out later that Obama was not a natural-born citizen, then everything he did as president, treaties, laws, executive orders, etc., would be invalid. The candidates spent more than $1 billion and two years vying for the job. Would it not make sense to give lawyers an afternoon arguing the issue in front of the Supreme Court? That is the least we could do to make sure the person taking the oath of office actually meets the requirements. The Constitution demands nothing less. From mincam2 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 8 01:11:26 2009 From: mincam2 at yahoo.com (Chuck Minne) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 22:11:26 -0800 (PST) Subject: [CitizensTruth] Without a questioning media, the questions go unanswered In-Reply-To: <319543.16608.qm@web30008.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <784935.53114.qm@web36901.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I can't figure out why we should care at this point. With the mess that the country is in, it seems to me that the last thing we need is to be further disrupted by is this issue. Do we really want to create a political shambles at this point? I say very vehemently, "NO!" ? It is my personal belief that he was probably born in Kenya, but I don't give a shit. There are far, far worse tramplings of the Constitution that should be corrected (but won't) way before this one is even considered. ? Let it go! Forget it! ? ? "I have lost faith, godammit! I put my faith in the People and that was a mistake! This is a shit people! They get stolen blind by their politicians and they lick their boots. They send their kids off to die for somebody's business deal and they celebrate it like they're doing something heroic! This great and glorious people! Lazy sacks of junk food and jingo!" ? From: "The Army of the Republic"? by Stuart Archer Cohen ? --- On Thu, 1/8/09, Edward Rynearson wrote: From: Edward Rynearson Subject: [CitizensTruth] Without a questioning media, the questions go unanswered To: citizenstruth at six.pairlist.net Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 12:01 AM http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/133734 Is Obama a natural-born citizen? Comments 48| Recommend 14 Thomas J. Lucente Jr., The Lima (Ohio) News January 6, 2009 - 8:44PM LIMA, Ohio ? The most underreported story of 2008 has to be the continuing saga of a few brave souls who are working through the courts to force President-elect Barack Obama to prove his citizenship. In fact, a report from The Associated Press dismissed the whole thing as nothing but Internet conspiracy theories. This lack of coverage is just the latest example of why I have mostly lost hope for the mainstream media in the United States. Thanks to the lack of media coverage, many of you reading this may be unaware of the multitude of lawsuits challenging Obama?s citizenship and his legal right to be president. The Framers, when putting together our Constitution, inserted Article 2, Section 1, Clause 4, which tells us. ?No Person except a natural born Citizen ? shall be eligible to the Office of President.? The same clause prevents Austrian-born California Gov. Arnold A. Schwarzenegger from being president. There have been at least 17 lawsuits filed in state and federal courts alleging that Obama does not meet the Constitutional requirement of being a natural-born citizen. The lawsuits filed all have varying theories on Obama?s citizenship, including that he was not born in the United States, that he became a citizen of Indonesia when he was adopted, or that he had dual citizenship at birth, which means he was not a natural-born citizen. The lawsuit with which I am most familiar was filed in a federal court in Pennsylvania by Philip Berg, a Democrat. That lawsuit alleges that Obama was born in Mombasa, Kenya. Berg says he has a recording of Obama?s grandmother, Sarah Obama, saying she was present when Obama was born in Kenya. Berg further claims that Obama himself and other members of his family have made conflicting statements as to where he was actually born. Additionally, Kenyan officials have said Obama was born in Kenya. Much of the controversy surrounds Obama?s birth certificate. The state of Hawaii has refused to release the long-form or ?vault? copy of the birth certificate. Obama has also refused to release the long-form copy. Back in June, the campaign did release a short-form certificate, which is a certificate created by Hawaii that says the long-form certificate is on file. However, according to Berg, the campaign only released the short-form certificate to The Daily Kos, a left-wing blog, and FactCheck.org, a pro-Obama organization. Additionally, Berg has called the short-form certificate a forgery. Berg brought the case to the U.S. Supreme Court and was initially denied by Justices David Souter and Anthony Kennedy before submitting his petition to Justice Antonin Scalia. The Supreme Court has scheduled two conferences on the case, one for Friday and a second one for Jan. 16, four days before Obama will take office. I do not know if Obama is a natural-born citizen. My instincts tell me that it would have been difficult for him to hide that fact for so long. However, citizenship law can be very murky and Obama?s reticence on the matter is disturbing. I know from personal experience that when dealing with duel citizenship issues, birth certificates are usually filed in both countries. The state of Hawaii?s statement that it has a birth certificate on file does nothing in solving the mystery of where Obama was born. It merely tells us that his birth was recorded in Hawaii. The whole controversy might be nothing more than a crazy conspiracy theory. Then again, it might be a valid argument. The whole matter could easily be settled by the state of Hawaii releasing the long-form certificate, something the Supreme Court can force if it accepts the case for arguments. There is much at stake here. This is a serious constitutional question. If we find out later that Obama was not a natural-born citizen, then everything he did as president, treaties, laws, executive orders, etc., would be invalid. The candidates spent more than $1 billion and two years vying for the job. Would it not make sense to give lawyers an afternoon arguing the issue in front of the Supreme Court? That is the least we could do to make sure the person taking the oath of office actually meets the requirements. The Constitution demands nothing less. _______________________________________________ CitizensTruth mailing list CitizensTruth at six.pairlist.net http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/citizenstruth website: http://citizenstruth.info -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rmigalla at earthlink.net Thu Jan 8 06:37:56 2009 From: rmigalla at earthlink.net (Robin Migalla) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 05:37:56 -0600 Subject: [CitizensTruth] Messages from Water by Masaru Emoto Message-ID: <01C97153.4AF0D050.rmigalla@earthlink.net> Poisoning ourselves and our planet is bizarre, too, but that doesn't seem to stop us. Maybe we should consider some of this other bizarre stuff and find out it really isn't so bizarre, after all. Who actually defines bizarre anyway? Waxing Zenlike, Robin -----Original Message----- From: Richard Fobes [SMTP:richardfobes at hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 17:07 To: Citizen's.Truth Subject: [CitizensTruth] Messages from Water by Masaru Emoto This is bizarre, and interesting: Masaru Emoto: Messages from Water _________________________________________________________________ Windows LiveTM Hotmail?: Chat. Store. Share. Do more with mail. http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_hm_justgotbetter_ howitworks_012009 << File: ATT00498.htm >> << File: ATT00499.txt >> From dimension04 at sbcglobal.net Thu Jan 8 08:11:30 2009 From: dimension04 at sbcglobal.net (Connie Smith) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 07:11:30 -0600 Subject: [CitizensTruth] Without a questioning media, the questions go unanswered In-Reply-To: <784935.53114.qm@web36901.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <784935.53114.qm@web36901.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <79587F2A02544A00AF4F620661DBCF92@InspironConnie> I agree with Chuck. I don't know if I hit Reply or Reply All on this topic previously. Please excuse if this is a repeat: More than ever, I can't see any sensible reason to pursue this. There are so many urgent constitutional violations that have piled up and are actually threatening us that I would think a person who is sincere about the Constitution would be spending their energy on those fronts. But instead, there's a vendetta-like search for a technicality to un-do probably the only legitimate election process (in terms of votes counted) that we've had in decades. It's petty, vicious, and stupid. If there was any evidence that Obama is some sort of foreign agent trying to sneak into the presidency and, from there, take over the world, maybe it would merit some attention. But to seriously pursue to derail the inauguration of an intelligent guy who's soaked in the values of his American midwestern-roots nurturers, who has a history of humanitarian ideals and actions, who is highly-solution oriented, and who is willing to literally risk his life to take on arguably the hardest job in the world (and probably more temperamentally and intellectually qualified than anyone we've ever had before) -- well, it's an absolutely idiotic effort. It's an outright sinister effort. There ARE extremely serious -- critical -- constitutional issues to work on. SINCERE people will do that. But Berg and buddies have the mentality of assassins -- and ought to be regarded and treated with the utmost scorn and contempt. Connie ----- Original Message ----- From: Chuck Minne To: citizenstruth at six.pairlist.net ; edward_rynearson at yahoo.com Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 12:11 AM Subject: Re: [CitizensTruth] Without a questioning media,the questions go unanswered I can't figure out why we should care at this point. With the mess that the country is in, it seems to me that the last thing we need is to be further disrupted by is this issue. Do we really want to create a political shambles at this point? I say very vehemently, "NO!" It is my personal belief that he was probably born in Kenya, but I don't give a shit. There are far, far worse tramplings of the Constitution that should be corrected (but won't) way before this one is even considered. Let it go! Forget it! "I have lost faith, godammit! I put my faith in the People and that was a mistake! This is a shit people! They get stolen blind by their politicians and they lick their boots. They send their kids off to die for somebody's business deal and they celebrate it like they're doing something heroic! This great and glorious people! Lazy sacks of junk food and jingo!" From: "The Army of the Republic" by Stuart Archer Cohen --- On Thu, 1/8/09, Edward Rynearson wrote: From: Edward Rynearson Subject: [CitizensTruth] Without a questioning media, the questions go unanswered To: citizenstruth at six.pairlist.net Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 12:01 AM http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/133734 Is Obama a natural-born citizen? Comments 48| Recommend 14 Thomas J. Lucente Jr., The Lima (Ohio) News January 6, 2009 - 8:44PM LIMA, Ohio ? The most underreported story of 2008 has to be the continuing saga of a few brave souls who are working through the courts to force President-elect Barack Obama to prove his citizenship. In fact, a report from The Associated Press dismissed the whole thing as nothing but Internet conspiracy theories. This lack of coverage is just the latest example of why I have mostly lost hope for the mainstream media in the United States. Thanks to the lack of media coverage, many of you reading this may be unaware of the multitude of lawsuits challenging Obama?s citizenship and his legal right to be president. The Framers, when putting together our Constitution, inserted Article 2, Section 1, Clause 4, which tells us. ?No Person except a natural born Citizen ? shall be eligible to the Office of President.? The same clause prevents Austrian-born California Gov. Arnold A. Schwarzenegger from being president. There have been at least 17 lawsuits filed in state and federal courts alleging that Obama does not meet the Constitutional requirement of being a natural-born citizen. The lawsuits filed all have varying theories on Obama?s citizenship, including that he was not born in the United States, that he became a citizen of Indonesia when he was adopted, or that he had dual citizenship at birth, which means he was not a natural-born citizen. The lawsuit with which I am most familiar was filed in a federal court in Pennsylvania by Philip Berg, a Democrat. That lawsuit alleges that Obama was born in Mombasa, Kenya. Berg says he has a recording of Obama?s grandmother, Sarah Obama, saying she was present when Obama was born in Kenya. Berg further claims that Obama himself and other members of his family have made conflicting statements as to where he was actually born. Additionally, Kenyan officials have said Obama was born in Kenya. Much of the controversy surrounds Obama?s birth certificate. The state of Hawaii has refused to release the long-form or ?vault? copy of the birth certificate. Obama has also refused to release the long-form copy. Back in June, the campaign did release a short-form certificate, which is a certificate created by Hawaii that says the long-form certificate is on file. However, according to Berg, the campaign only released the short-form certificate to The Daily Kos, a left-wing blog, and FactCheck.org, a pro-Obama organization. Additionally, Berg has called the short-form certificate a forgery. Berg brought the case to the U.S. Supreme Court and was initially denied by Justices David Souter and Anthony Kennedy before submitting his petition to Justice Antonin Scalia. The Supreme Court has scheduled two conferences on the case, one for Friday and a second one for Jan. 16, four days before Obama will take office. I do not know if Obama is a natural-born citizen. My instincts tell me that it would have been difficult for him to hide that fact for so long. However, citizenship law can be very murky and Obama?s reticence on the matter is disturbing. I know from personal experience that when dealing with duel citizenship issues, birth certificates are usually filed in both countries. The state of Hawaii?s statement that it has a birth certificate on file does nothing in solving the mystery of where Obama was born. It merely tells us that his birth was recorded in Hawaii. The whole controversy might be nothing more than a crazy conspiracy theory. Then again, it might be a valid argument. The whole matter could easily be settled by the state of Hawaii releasing the long-form certificate, something the Supreme Court can force if it accepts the case for arguments. There is much at stake here. This is a serious constitutional question. If we find out later that Obama was not a natural-born citizen, then everything he did as president, treaties, laws, executive orders, etc., would be invalid. The candidates spent more than $1 billion and two years vying for the job. Would it not make sense to give lawyers an afternoon arguing the issue in front of the Supreme Court? That is the least we could do to make sure the person taking the oath of office actually meets the requirements. The Constitution demands nothing less. _______________________________________________ CitizensTruth mailing list CitizensTruth at six.pairlist.net http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/citizenstruth website: http://citizenstruth.info ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ CitizensTruth mailing list CitizensTruth at six.pairlist.net http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/citizenstruth website: http://citizenstruth.info -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From welaware at merr.com Thu Jan 8 08:21:40 2009 From: welaware at merr.com (Kris Knight) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 07:21:40 -0600 Subject: [CitizensTruth] Without a questioning media, the questions go unanswered In-Reply-To: <79587F2A02544A00AF4F620661DBCF92@InspironConnie> References: <784935.53114.qm@web36901.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <79587F2A02544A00AF4F620661DBCF92@InspironConnie> Message-ID: I agree that we choose our battles and also realize what magnetic charge we create when we do, because we're attracting much of what we believe we are most against. I think WHERE someone is born is the least of our concerns. The utter least. I do NOT agree about some of the stronger accusations below, but I'm chiming in hoping to move us into considering what we attract by what we hold onto. I believe it is time for us to learn about future memory, time travel, how we can change the future by what we see in our minds now, all proven stuff. Let's drop our fundamentalism that we are calling something else. There is a very, very big world out there; there is alot to learn and quickly, in order to SEE what we long for into reality. This is different than denial so don't misunderstand me, please. DO YOUR HOMEWORK. For those of you who are enmeshed in a dysfunctional reality that focuses on duality, think of softening your hold on that, because we're in a time of great transformation, great opportunity. Really, we are. And we must model for those younger ones we've brought into the world, including both children but also new ideas, new concepts, new consequences. Ask, and you will receive. A universal truth. Put your request out there; you will then begin to receive responses that you heretofore did not. So, keep your eyes, and sometimes your camera lens, open...(referring to my previous email, if Hal allows it through). On Jan 8, 2009, at 7:11 AM, Connie Smith wrote: > > > I agree with Chuck. > > I don't know if I hit Reply or Reply All on this topic previously. > Please excuse if this is a repeat: > > More than ever, I can't see any sensible reason to pursue this. > There are > so many urgent constitutional violations that have piled up and are > actually > threatening us that I would think a person who is sincere about the > Constitution would be spending their energy on those fronts. > > But instead, there's a vendetta-like search for a technicality to un- > do > probably the only legitimate election process (in terms of votes > counted) > that we've had in decades. It's petty, vicious, and stupid. > > If there was any evidence that Obama is some sort of foreign agent > trying to > sneak into the presidency and, from there, take over the world, > maybe it > would merit some attention. > > But to seriously pursue to derail the inauguration of an intelligent > guy > who's soaked in the values of his American midwestern-roots > nurturers, who > has a history of humanitarian ideals and actions, who is highly- > solution > oriented, and who is willing to literally risk his life to take on > arguably > the hardest job in the world (and probably more temperamentally and > intellectually qualified than anyone we've ever had before) -- well, > it's an > absolutely idiotic effort. It's an outright sinister effort. > > There ARE extremely serious -- critical -- constitutional issues to > work on. > SINCERE people will do that. But Berg and buddies have the > mentality of > assassins -- and ought to be regarded and treated with the utmost > scorn and > contempt. > > Connie > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Chuck Minne > To: citizenstruth at six.pairlist.net ; edward_rynearson at yahoo.com > Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 12:11 AM > Subject: Re: [CitizensTruth] Without a questioning media,the > questions go unanswered > > I can't figure out why we should care at this point. With the mess > that the country is in, it seems to me that the last thing we need > is to be further disrupted by is this issue. Do we really want to > create a political shambles at this point? I say very vehemently, > "NO!" > > It is my personal belief that he was probably born in Kenya, but I > don't give a shit. There are far, far worse tramplings of the > Constitution that should be corrected (but won't) way before this > one is even considered. > > Let it go! Forget it! > > > > "I have lost faith, godammit! I put my faith in the People and that > was a mistake! This is a shit people! They get stolen blind by their > politicians and they lick their boots. They send their kids off to > die for somebody's business deal and they celebrate it like they're > doing something heroic! This great and glorious people! Lazy sacks > of junk food and jingo!" > > From: "The Army of the Republic" by Stuart Archer Cohen > > > > --- On Thu, 1/8/09, Edward Rynearson > wrote: > From: Edward Rynearson > Subject: [CitizensTruth] Without a questioning media, the questions > go unanswered > To: citizenstruth at six.pairlist.net > Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 12:01 AM > > http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/133734 > > Is Obama a natural-born citizen? > Comments 48| Recommend 14 > Thomas J. Lucente Jr., The Lima (Ohio) News January 6, 2009 - 8:44PM > > LIMA, Ohio ? The most underreported story of 2008 has to be the > continuing > saga of a few brave souls who are working through the courts to force > President-elect Barack Obama to prove his citizenship. > > In fact, a report from The Associated Press dismissed the whole > thing as > nothing but Internet conspiracy theories. > > This lack of coverage is just the latest example of why I have > mostly lost hope > for the mainstream media in the United States. > > Thanks to the lack of media coverage, many of you reading this may > be unaware > of the multitude of lawsuits challenging Obama?s citizenship and his > legal > right to be president. > > The Framers, when putting together our Constitution, inserted > Article 2, > Section 1, Clause 4, which tells us. ?No Person except a natural > born Citizen > ? shall be eligible to the Office of President.? The same clause > prevents > Austrian-born California Gov. Arnold A. Schwarzenegger from being > president. > > There have been at least 17 lawsuits filed in state and federal > courts alleging > that Obama does not meet the Constitutional requirement of being a > natural-born > citizen. > > The lawsuits filed all have varying theories on Obama?s citizenship, > including that he was not born in the United States, that he became > a citizen of > Indonesia when he was adopted, or that he had dual citizenship at > birth, which > means he was not a natural-born citizen. > > The lawsuit with which I am most familiar was filed in a federal > court in > Pennsylvania by Philip Berg, a Democrat. > > That lawsuit alleges that Obama was born in Mombasa, Kenya. Berg > says he has a > recording of Obama?s grandmother, Sarah Obama, saying she was > present when > Obama was born in Kenya. > > Berg further claims that Obama himself and other members of his > family have > made conflicting statements as to where he was actually born. > Additionally, > Kenyan officials have said Obama was born in Kenya. > > Much of the controversy surrounds Obama?s birth certificate. The > state of > Hawaii has refused to release the long-form or ?vault? copy of the > birth > certificate. Obama has also refused to release the long-form copy. > > Back in June, the campaign did release a short-form certificate, > which is a > certificate created by Hawaii that says the long-form certificate is > on file. > However, according to Berg, the campaign only released the short-form > certificate to The Daily Kos, a left-wing blog, and FactCheck.org, a > pro-Obama > organization. Additionally, Berg has called the short-form > certificate a > forgery. > > Berg brought the case to the U.S. Supreme Court and was initially > denied by > Justices David Souter and Anthony Kennedy before submitting his > petition to > Justice Antonin Scalia. > > The Supreme Court has scheduled two conferences on the case, one for > Friday and > a second one for Jan. 16, four days before Obama will take office. > > I do not know if Obama is a natural-born citizen. My instincts tell > me that it > would have been difficult for him to hide that fact for so long. > However, > citizenship law can be very murky and Obama?s reticence on the > matter is > disturbing. > > I know from personal experience that when dealing with duel > citizenship issues, > birth certificates are usually filed in both countries. The state of > Hawaii?s > statement that it has a birth certificate on file does nothing in > solving the > mystery of where Obama was born. It merely tells us that his birth > was recorded > in Hawaii. > > The whole controversy might be nothing more than a crazy conspiracy > theory. > Then again, it might be a valid argument. > > The whole matter could easily be settled by the state of Hawaii > releasing the > long-form certificate, something the Supreme Court can force if it > accepts the > case for arguments. > > There is much at stake here. This is a serious constitutional > question. If we > find out later that Obama was not a natural-born citizen, then > everything he did > as president, treaties, laws, executive orders, etc., would be > invalid. > > The candidates spent more than $1 billion and two years vying for > the job. > Would it not make sense to give lawyers an afternoon arguing the > issue in front > of the Supreme Court? That is the least we could do to make sure the > person > taking the oath of office actually meets the requirements. > > The Constitution demands nothing less. > > _______________________________________________ > CitizensTruth mailing list > CitizensTruth at six.pairlist.net > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/citizenstruth > website: http://citizenstruth.info > > > > _______________________________________________ > CitizensTruth mailing list > CitizensTruth at six.pairlist.net > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/citizenstruth > website: http://citizenstruth.info > _______________________________________________ > CitizensTruth mailing list > CitizensTruth at six.pairlist.net > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/citizenstruth > website: http://citizenstruth.info Kris Knight of WellAware Life Enhancement Center Phone: 1-608-ALL-LIFE welaware at merr.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From edward_rynearson at yahoo.com Thu Jan 8 10:50:39 2009 From: edward_rynearson at yahoo.com (Edward Rynearson) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 07:50:39 -0800 (PST) Subject: [CitizensTruth] Without a questioning media, the questions go unanswered In-Reply-To: <79587F2A02544A00AF4F620661DBCF92@InspironConnie> Message-ID: <861642.15233.qm@web30001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I don't think its a vendetta and if seen in the broader context of JFK, RFK, MLK9/11, 7/7, Paul Wellstone, Mike Connell, et there is obviously some power greater than our elected government that is calling the shots. If there is truth to this then they have the goods on Obama who just happens to be naming all of their people to his cabinet. Kissinger (Rockefeller's general) went on MSNBC two days ago and said that the economic situation provided Obama with the opportunity to implement a "New World Order". Sanja Gupta is a member of the CFR which basically is the officer corp for "The New World Order". Michelle Obama works for the CFR. If you haven't picked up a copy of the Bilderberg Group, go to the bookstore and just leaf through the photos. A picture tells a thousand words. I believe it is news and that we must see what's going on outside the left/right - Democractic/Republican fish bowl. Ed --- On Thu, 1/8/09, Connie Smith wrote: > From: Connie Smith > Subject: Re: [CitizensTruth] Without a questioning media,the questions go unanswered > To: mincam2 at yahoo.com, citizenstruth at six.pairlist.net, edward_rynearson at yahoo.com > Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 7:11 AM > I agree with Chuck. > > > > I don't know if I hit Reply or Reply All on this topic > previously. > > Please excuse if this is a repeat: > > > > More than ever, I can't see any sensible reason to > pursue this. There are > so many urgent constitutional violations that have piled up > and are actually > threatening us that I would think a person who is sincere > about the > Constitution would be spending their energy on those > fronts. > > But instead, there's a vendetta-like search for a > technicality to un-do > probably the only legitimate election process (in terms of > votes counted) > that we've had in decades. It's petty, vicious, > and stupid. > > If there was any evidence that Obama is some sort of > foreign agent trying to > sneak into the presidency and, from there, take over the > world, maybe it > would merit some attention. > > But to seriously pursue to derail the inauguration of an > intelligent guy > who's soaked in the values of his American > midwestern-roots nurturers, who > has a history of humanitarian ideals and actions, who is > highly-solution > oriented, and who is willing to literally risk his life to > take on arguably > the hardest job in the world (and probably more > temperamentally and > intellectually qualified than anyone we've ever had > before) -- well, it's an > absolutely idiotic effort. It's an outright sinister > effort. > > There ARE extremely serious -- critical -- constitutional > issues to work on. > SINCERE people will do that. But Berg and buddies have the > mentality of > assassins -- and ought to be regarded and treated with the > utmost scorn and > contempt. > > Connie > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Chuck Minne > To: citizenstruth at six.pairlist.net ; > edward_rynearson at yahoo.com > Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 12:11 AM > Subject: Re: [CitizensTruth] Without a questioning > media,the questions go unanswered > > > I can't figure out why we should care at this > point. With the mess that the country is in, it seems to me > that the last thing we need is to be further disrupted by is > this issue. Do we really want to create a political shambles > at this point? I say very vehemently, "NO!" > > It is my personal belief that he was probably born > in Kenya, but I don't give a shit. There are far, far > worse tramplings of the Constitution that should be > corrected (but won't) way before this one is even > considered. > > Let it go! Forget it! > > > > > "I have lost faith, godammit! I put my faith > in the People and that was a mistake! This is a shit people! > They get stolen blind by their politicians and they lick > their boots. They send their kids off to die for > somebody's business deal and they celebrate it like > they're doing something heroic! This great and glorious > people! Lazy sacks of junk food and jingo!" > > From: "The Army of the Republic" by > Stuart Archer Cohen > > > > --- On Thu, 1/8/09, Edward Rynearson > wrote: > > From: Edward Rynearson > > Subject: [CitizensTruth] Without a questioning > media, the questions go unanswered > To: citizenstruth at six.pairlist.net > Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 12:01 AM > > > http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/133734 > > Is Obama a natural-born citizen? > Comments 48| Recommend 14 > Thomas J. Lucente Jr., The Lima (Ohio) News January 6, 2009 > - 8:44PM > > LIMA, Ohio ? The most underreported story of 2008 has to > be the continuing > saga of a few brave souls who are working through the > courts to force > President-elect Barack Obama to prove his citizenship. > > In fact, a report from The Associated Press dismissed the > whole thing as > nothing but Internet conspiracy theories. > > This lack of coverage is just the latest example of why I > have mostly lost hope > for the mainstream media in the United States. > > Thanks to the lack of media coverage, many of you reading > this may be unaware > of the multitude of lawsuits challenging Obama?s > citizenship and his legal > right to be president. > > The Framers, when putting together our Constitution, > inserted Article 2, > Section 1, Clause 4, which tells us. ?No Person except a > natural born Citizen > ? shall be eligible to the Office of President.? The > same clause prevents > Austrian-born California Gov. Arnold A. Schwarzenegger from > being president. > > There have been at least 17 lawsuits filed in state and > federal courts alleging > that Obama does not meet the Constitutional requirement of > being a natural-born > citizen. > > The lawsuits filed all have varying theories on Obama?s > citizenship, > including that he was not born in the United States, that > he became a citizen of > Indonesia when he was adopted, or that he had dual > citizenship at birth, which > means he was not a natural-born citizen. > > The lawsuit with which I am most familiar was filed in a > federal court in > Pennsylvania by Philip Berg, a Democrat. > > That lawsuit alleges that Obama was born in Mombasa, Kenya. > Berg says he has a > recording of Obama?s grandmother, Sarah Obama, saying she > was present when > Obama was born in Kenya. > > Berg further claims that Obama himself and other members of > his family have > made conflicting statements as to where he was actually > born. Additionally, > Kenyan officials have said Obama was born in Kenya. > > Much of the controversy surrounds Obama?s birth > certificate. The state of > Hawaii has refused to release the long-form or ?vault? > copy of the birth > certificate. Obama has also refused to release the > long-form copy. > > Back in June, the campaign did release a short-form > certificate, which is a > certificate created by Hawaii that says the long-form > certificate is on file. > However, according to Berg, the campaign only released the > short-form > certificate to The Daily Kos, a left-wing blog, and > FactCheck.org, a pro-Obama > organization. Additionally, Berg has called the short-form > certificate a > forgery. > > Berg brought the case to the U.S. Supreme Court and was > initially denied by > Justices David Souter and Anthony Kennedy before submitting > his petition to > Justice Antonin Scalia. > > The Supreme Court has scheduled two conferences on the > case, one for Friday and > a second one for Jan. 16, four days before Obama will take > office. > > I do not know if Obama is a natural-born citizen. My > instincts tell me that it > would have been difficult for him to hide that fact for so > long. However, > citizenship law can be very murky and Obama?s reticence > on the matter is > disturbing. > > I know from personal experience that when dealing with duel > citizenship issues, > birth certificates are usually filed in both countries. The > state of Hawaii?s > statement that it has a birth certificate on file does > nothing in solving the > mystery of where Obama was born. It merely tells us that > his birth was recorded > in Hawaii. > > The whole controversy might be nothing more than a crazy > conspiracy theory. > Then again, it might be a valid argument. > > The whole matter could easily be settled by the state of > Hawaii releasing the > long-form certificate, something the Supreme Court can > force if it accepts the > case for arguments. > > There is much at stake here. This is a serious > constitutional question. If we > find out later that Obama was not a natural-born citizen, > then everything he did > as president, treaties, laws, executive orders, etc., would > be invalid. > > The candidates spent more than $1 billion and two years > vying for the job. > Would it not make sense to give lawyers an afternoon > arguing the issue in front > of the Supreme Court? That is the least we could do to make > sure the person > taking the oath of office actually meets the requirements. > > The Constitution demands nothing less. > > _______________________________________________ > CitizensTruth mailing list > CitizensTruth at six.pairlist.net > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/citizenstruth > website: http://citizenstruth.info > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > _______________________________________________ > CitizensTruth mailing list > CitizensTruth at six.pairlist.net > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/citizenstruth > website: http://citizenstruth.info From edward_rynearson at yahoo.com Thu Jan 8 13:37:20 2009 From: edward_rynearson at yahoo.com (Edward Rynearson) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 10:37:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: [CitizensTruth] Rockets hit Israel from Lebanon (BBC) Message-ID: <440232.44866.qm@web30005.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Rockets hit Israel from Lebanon http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7817135.stm The rocket attacks from Lebanon have raised concerns about a wider war in the region, says the BBC's Middle East Editor Jeremy Bowen. But the Lebanese Prime Minister Fouad Siniora was swift to condemn the attack, and called for the army and the UN to investigate. Information Minister Tarek Mitri told the AFP news agency he had been "assured" by the militant group Hezbollah they were not involved in the rocket attacks. Israeli cabinet minister Raif Eitan said he believed Palestinians in Lebanon, not Hezbollah, were behind the attack. On Wednesday, Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah spoke openly about the possibility of a renewed conflict with Israel, saying its fighters were on high alert along the Lebanese-Israeli border. Northern Israel came under attack from rockets fired by Hezbollah during the brief war with Lebanon in the summer of 2006. Air attacks In Gaza, Israel continued its offensive overnight with 60 airstrikes targeting police sites, 10 Hamas tunnels, weapons storage facilities, launching pads "and a number of armed gunmen", the Israeli army said. Naval and artillery units "continued to support the ground forces" with one soldier lightly wounded, the army added. Shopping for 'basic needs' in Gaza market The bombardment followed a three-hour pause in fighting on Wednesday to allow vital humanitarian aid into Gaza. Aid agencies report that Gazans rushed into the streets to buy essential supplies and visit relatives in hospital during the lull. But the traditionally neutral ICRC accused Israel of failing to honour its obligations under international law to treat and evacuate the wounded in Gaza. It said the Israeli military was in the neighbourhood and must have been aware of the incident involving the four starving children but did nothing to help. "Neither did they make it possible for us or the Palestinian Red Crescent to assist the wounded," the ICRC's Pierre Wettach said. About 700 Palestinian and 11 Israeli lives are said to have been lost since the offensive began 12 days ago. Casualty claims in Gaza have been difficult to independently verify. While the BBC has had Palestinian producers reporting from Gaza, Israel only allowed Western TV crews to enter on Wednesday, embedded with its army. From dimension04 at sbcglobal.net Thu Jan 8 14:10:19 2009 From: dimension04 at sbcglobal.net (Connie Smith) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 13:10:19 -0600 Subject: [CitizensTruth] Without a questioning media, the questions go unanswered In-Reply-To: References: <784935.53114.qm@web36901.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <79587F2A02544A00AF4F620661DBCF92@InspironConnie> Message-ID: The language I chose comes only after lengthily tolerating too many provocations on this subject. As Kris succinctly states, where someone is born is the least of our concerns -- EXCEPT that agitators are helping to MAKE it a concern -- by continually introducing the subject. It was finally time for me to state my disgust at that. Moving on. Connie ----- Original Message ----- From: Kris Knight To: Connie Smith Cc: mincam2 at yahoo.com ; citizenstruth at six.pairlist.net ; edward_rynearson at yahoo.com Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 7:21 AM Subject: Re: [CitizensTruth] Without a questioning media, the questions go unanswered I agree that we choose our battles and also realize what magnetic charge we create when we do, because we're attracting much of what we believe we are most against. I think WHERE someone is born is the least of our concerns. The utter least. I do NOT agree about some of the stronger accusations below, but I'm chiming in hoping to move us into considering what we attract by what we hold onto. I believe it is time for us to learn about future memory, time travel, how we can change the future by what we see in our minds now, all proven stuff. Let's drop our fundamentalism that we are calling something else. There is a very, very big world out there; there is alot to learn and quickly, in order to SEE what we long for into reality. This is different than denial so don't misunderstand me, please. DO YOUR HOMEWORK. For those of you who are enmeshed in a dysfunctional reality that focuses on duality, think of softening your hold on that, because we're in a time of great transformation, great opportunity. Really, we are. And we must model for those younger ones we've brought into the world, including both children but also new ideas, new concepts, new consequences. Ask, and you will receive. A universal truth. Put your request out there; you will then begin to receive responses that you heretofore did not. So, keep your eyes, and sometimes your camera lens, open...(referring to my previous email, if Hal allows it through). On Jan 8, 2009, at 7:11 AM, Connie Smith wrote: I agree with Chuck. I don't know if I hit Reply or Reply All on this topic previously. Please excuse if this is a repeat: More than ever, I can't see any sensible reason to pursue this. There are so many urgent constitutional violations that have piled up and are actually threatening us that I would think a person who is sincere about the Constitution would be spending their energy on those fronts. But instead, there's a vendetta-like search for a technicality to un-do probably the only legitimate election process (in terms of votes counted) that we've had in decades. It's petty, vicious, and stupid. If there was any evidence that Obama is some sort of foreign agent trying to sneak into the presidency and, from there, take over the world, maybe it would merit some attention. But to seriously pursue to derail the inauguration of an intelligent guy who's soaked in the values of his American midwestern-roots nurturers, who has a history of humanitarian ideals and actions, who is highly-solution oriented, and who is willing to literally risk his life to take on arguably the hardest job in the world (and probably more temperamentally and intellectually qualified than anyone we've ever had before) -- well, it's an absolutely idiotic effort. It's an outright sinister effort. There ARE extremely serious -- critical -- constitutional issues to work on. SINCERE people will do that. But Berg and buddies have the mentality of assassins -- and ought to be regarded and treated with the utmost scorn and contempt. Connie ----- Original Message ----- From: Chuck Minne To: citizenstruth at six.pairlist.net ; edward_rynearson at yahoo.com Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 12:11 AM Subject: Re: [CitizensTruth] Without a questioning media,the questions go unanswered I can't figure out why we should care at this point. With the mess that the country is in, it seems to me that the last thing we need is to be further disrupted by is this issue. Do we really want to create a political shambles at this point? I say very vehemently, "NO!" It is my personal belief that he was probably born in Kenya, but I don't give a shit. There are far, far worse tramplings of the Constitution that should be corrected (but won't) way before this one is even considered. Let it go! Forget it! "I have lost faith, godammit! I put my faith in the People and that was a mistake! This is a shit people! They get stolen blind by their politicians and they lick their boots. They send their kids off to die for somebody's business deal and they celebrate it like they're doing something heroic! This great and glorious people! Lazy sacks of junk food and jingo!" From: "The Army of the Republic" by Stuart Archer Cohen --- On Thu, 1/8/09, Edward Rynearson wrote: From: Edward Rynearson Subject: [CitizensTruth] Without a questioning media, the questions go unanswered To: citizenstruth at six.pairlist.net Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 12:01 AM http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/133734 Is Obama a natural-born citizen? Comments 48| Recommend 14 Thomas J. Lucente Jr., The Lima (Ohio) News January 6, 2009 - 8:44PM LIMA, Ohio ? The most underreported story of 2008 has to be the continuing saga of a few brave souls who are working through the courts to force President-elect Barack Obama to prove his citizenship. In fact, a report from The Associated Press dismissed the whole thing as nothing but Internet conspiracy theories. This lack of coverage is just the latest example of why I have mostly lost hope for the mainstream media in the United States. Thanks to the lack of media coverage, many of you reading this may be unaware of the multitude of lawsuits challenging Obama?s citizenship and his legal right to be president. The Framers, when putting together our Constitution, inserted Article 2, Section 1, Clause 4, which tells us. ?No Person except a natural born Citizen ? shall be eligible to the Office of President.? The same clause prevents Austrian-born California Gov. Arnold A. Schwarzenegger from being president. There have been at least 17 lawsuits filed in state and federal courts alleging that Obama does not meet the Constitutional requirement of being a natural-born citizen. The lawsuits filed all have varying theories on Obama?s citizenship, including that he was not born in the United States, that he became a citizen of Indonesia when he was adopted, or that he had dual citizenship at birth, which means he was not a natural-born citizen. The lawsuit with which I am most familiar was filed in a federal court in Pennsylvania by Philip Berg, a Democrat. That lawsuit alleges that Obama was born in Mombasa, Kenya. Berg says he has a recording of Obama?s grandmother, Sarah Obama, saying she was present when Obama was born in Kenya. Berg further claims that Obama himself and other members of his family have made conflicting statements as to where he was actually born. Additionally, Kenyan officials have said Obama was born in Kenya. Much of the controversy surrounds Obama?s birth certificate. The state of Hawaii has refused to release the long-form or ?vault? copy of the birth certificate. Obama has also refused to release the long-form copy. Back in June, the campaign did release a short-form certificate, which is a certificate created by Hawaii that says the long-form certificate is on file. However, according to Berg, the campaign only released the short-form certificate to The Daily Kos, a left-wing blog, and FactCheck.org, a pro-Obama organization. Additionally, Berg has called the short-form certificate a forgery. Berg brought the case to the U.S. Supreme Court and was initially denied by Justices David Souter and Anthony Kennedy before submitting his petition to Justice Antonin Scalia. The Supreme Court has scheduled two conferences on the case, one for Friday and a second one for Jan. 16, four days before Obama will take office. I do not know if Obama is a natural-born citizen. My instincts tell me that it would have been difficult for him to hide that fact for so long. However, citizenship law can be very murky and Obama?s reticence on the matter is disturbing. I know from personal experience that when dealing with duel citizenship issues, birth certificates are usually filed in both countries. The state of Hawaii?s statement that it has a birth certificate on file does nothing in solving the mystery of where Obama was born. It merely tells us that his birth was recorded in Hawaii. The whole controversy might be nothing more than a crazy conspiracy theory. Then again, it might be a valid argument. The whole matter could easily be settled by the state of Hawaii releasing the long-form certificate, something the Supreme Court can force if it accepts the case for arguments. There is much at stake here. This is a serious constitutional question. If we find out later that Obama was not a natural-born citizen, then everything he did as president, treaties, laws, executive orders, etc., would be invalid. The candidates spent more than $1 billion and two years vying for the job. Would it not make sense to give lawyers an afternoon arguing the issue in front of the Supreme Court? That is the least we could do to make sure the person taking the oath of office actually meets the requirements. The Constitution demands nothing less. _______________________________________________ CitizensTruth mailing list CitizensTruth at six.pairlist.net http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/citizenstruth website: http://citizenstruth.info -------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ CitizensTruth mailing list CitizensTruth at six.pairlist.net http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/citizenstruth website: http://citizenstruth.info _______________________________________________ CitizensTruth mailing list CitizensTruth at six.pairlist.net http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/citizenstruth website: http://citizenstruth.info Kris Knight of WellAware Life Enhancement Center Phone: 1-608-ALL-LIFE welaware at merr.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From edward_rynearson at yahoo.com Thu Jan 8 21:51:22 2009 From: edward_rynearson at yahoo.com (Edward Rynearson) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 18:51:22 -0800 (PST) Subject: [CitizensTruth] Gupta is a member of the Council of Foreign Relations Message-ID: <117839.50722.qm@web30004.mail.mud.yahoo.com> "A board-certified neurosurgeon, Gupta is a member of several organizations, including the American Association of Neurological Surgeons, Congress of Neurological Surgeons, and the Council of Foreign Relations. He serves as a diplomat of the American Board of Neurosurgery and is a certified medical investigator. Gupta is also a board member of the Lance Armstrong LiveStrong Foundation." http://www.cnn.com/CNN/anchors_reporters/gupta.sanjay.html From rmigalla at earthlink.net Fri Jan 9 09:06:03 2009 From: rmigalla at earthlink.net (Robin Migalla) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 08:06:03 -0600 Subject: [CitizensTruth] Some really great news and some inspiration Message-ID: <01C97231.2BE85460.rmigalla@earthlink.net> Hi All, Some really great news occurred recently. It's short, sweet, and worth watching... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AI_JuLLYT5Q&sdig=1 Also, if you're in need of a little inspiration, check this one out... http://www.maniacworld.com/are-you-going-to-finish-strong.html I can't help but think this guy lost his limbs in war. I wonder if he would have found such a magnificent career otherwise. Maybe all this war is serving a purpose that we just don't understand. Or maybe it's just a reflection of our own internal wars. One thing I'm finding out more and more about myself is that I'm awfully damned critical. Maybe criticism is really violence wearing makeup. After all, didn't we use to think it was okay to spank our kids. I long for the day I'm as repulsed by mild criticism as I am by beating a child. I guess that would be my version of finishing strong (or at least getting to a little bit higher ground). Oh my gosh, I'm having another Zen attack. Cheers, Robin From aroyboy44 at hotmail.com Fri Jan 9 13:28:46 2009 From: aroyboy44 at hotmail.com (andrew ritter) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 18:28:46 +0000 Subject: [CitizensTruth] Without a questioning media, the questions go unanswered In-Reply-To: <861642.15233.qm@web30001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <79587F2A02544A00AF4F620661DBCF92@InspironConnie> <861642.15233.qm@web30001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Ed, it is this last email you wrote that I think addresses the more important question, its not about his birthplace but where does Obama's allegiance lie? And I think you are 100% correct that his allegiance is/will be with NWO/CFR/Illuminatti/BLDBRG/etc..., and your point about his cabinet appointments is exactly what we need to look at and debate with those who believe that Obama is Hope & Change, This is a topic I believe Hal raised not too long ago... and is a great one for us to keep on top of, I personally believe he will do everything he can to make it appear like he is doing something different, but actions speak louder than words and it will be the Clinton crime family regime all over again and worse this time and the DEMS will have a built in excuse for the next 4 years: GW Bush (as if the DEMS did not hand him everything he wanted the entire 8 years...) I think the dialogue with DEMS needs to stay in the realm of what he actually does and doesn't do and I feel certain his true allegiance will shine its ugly light as we watch him expand the war and take more of our liberties away. peace, AR > Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 07:50:39 -0800 > From: edward_rynearson at yahoo.com > To: mincam2 at yahoo.com; citizenstruth at six.pairlist.net; dimension04 at sbcglobal.net > Subject: Re: [CitizensTruth] Without a questioning media, the questions go unanswered > > I don't think its a vendetta and if seen in the broader context of JFK, RFK, MLK9/11, 7/7, Paul Wellstone, Mike Connell, et there is obviously some power greater than our elected government that is calling the shots. If there is truth to this then they have the goods on Obama who just happens to be naming all of their people to his cabinet. Kissinger (Rockefeller's general) went on MSNBC two days ago and said that the economic situation provided Obama with the opportunity to implement a "New World Order". Sanja Gupta is a member of the CFR which basically is the officer corp for "The New World Order". Michelle Obama works for the CFR. > > If you haven't picked up a copy of the Bilderberg Group, go to the bookstore and just leaf through the photos. A picture tells a thousand words. > > I believe it is news and that we must see what's going on outside the left/right - Democractic/Republican fish bowl. > > Ed > > > --- On Thu, 1/8/09, Connie Smith wrote: > > > From: Connie Smith > > Subject: Re: [CitizensTruth] Without a questioning media,the questions go unanswered > > To: mincam2 at yahoo.com, citizenstruth at six.pairlist.net, edward_rynearson at yahoo.com > > Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 7:11 AM > > I agree with Chuck. > > > > > > > > I don't know if I hit Reply or Reply All on this topic > > previously. > > > > Please excuse if this is a repeat: > > > > > > > > More than ever, I can't see any sensible reason to > > pursue this. There are > > so many urgent constitutional violations that have piled up > > and are actually > > threatening us that I would think a person who is sincere > > about the > > Constitution would be spending their energy on those > > fronts. > > > > But instead, there's a vendetta-like search for a > > technicality to un-do > > probably the only legitimate election process (in terms of > > votes counted) > > that we've had in decades. It's petty, vicious, > > and stupid. > > > > If there was any evidence that Obama is some sort of > > foreign agent trying to > > sneak into the presidency and, from there, take over the > > world, maybe it > > would merit some attention. > > > > But to seriously pursue to derail the inauguration of an > > intelligent guy > > who's soaked in the values of his American > > midwestern-roots nurturers, who > > has a history of humanitarian ideals and actions, who is > > highly-solution > > oriented, and who is willing to literally risk his life to > > take on arguably > > the hardest job in the world (and probably more > > temperamentally and > > intellectually qualified than anyone we've ever had > > before) -- well, it's an > > absolutely idiotic effort. It's an outright sinister > > effort. > > > > There ARE extremely serious -- critical -- constitutional > > issues to work on. > > SINCERE people will do that. But Berg and buddies have the > > mentality of > > assassins -- and ought to be regarded and treated with the > > utmost scorn and > > contempt. > > > > Connie > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Chuck Minne > > To: citizenstruth at six.pairlist.net ; > > edward_rynearson at yahoo.com > > Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 12:11 AM > > Subject: Re: [CitizensTruth] Without a questioning > > media,the questions go unanswered > > > > > > I can't figure out why we should care at this > > point. With the mess that the country is in, it seems to me > > that the last thing we need is to be further disrupted by is > > this issue. Do we really want to create a political shambles > > at this point? I say very vehemently, "NO!" > > > > It is my personal belief that he was probably born > > in Kenya, but I don't give a shit. There are far, far > > worse tramplings of the Constitution that should be > > corrected (but won't) way before this one is even > > considered. > > > > Let it go! Forget it! > > > > > > > > > > "I have lost faith, godammit! I put my faith > > in the People and that was a mistake! This is a shit people! > > They get stolen blind by their politicians and they lick > > their boots. They send their kids off to die for > > somebody's business deal and they celebrate it like > > they're doing something heroic! This great and glorious > > people! Lazy sacks of junk food and jingo!" > > > > From: "The Army of the Republic" by > > Stuart Archer Cohen > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 1/8/09, Edward Rynearson > > wrote: > > > > From: Edward Rynearson > > > > Subject: [CitizensTruth] Without a questioning > > media, the questions go unanswered > > To: citizenstruth at six.pairlist.net > > Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 12:01 AM > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_explore_012009 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From janice.matthews at gmail.com Fri Jan 9 13:50:25 2009 From: janice.matthews at gmail.com (Janice Matthews) Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2009 12:50:25 -0600 Subject: [CitizensTruth] Contact House RIGHT NOW! against House Res 34 Message-ID: <49679C71.6080308@gmail.com> Friends, After calling Washington to register my staunch opposition, I've just sent an email to my new "Representative" in Northeast Kansas, Lynn Jenkins (ugh) . I encourage each of you, if you care in the least about the children of Gaza, or are the least bit ashamed of the actions of YOUR government, to contact your own Reps as well. Yesterday, the Senate passed S.Res.10, a heinous statement (introduced by Extremist Homegrown Terrorism Proponents Reid and McConnell, with 31 cosponsors, including Missouri's Kit Bond) /"Recognizing the right of Israel to defend itself against attacks from Gaza and reaffirming the United States' strong support for Israel in its battle with Hamas, and supporting the Israeli-Palestinian peace process."/ It's reported to have passed by "unanimous voice vote" which means that the cowards did NOT cast a written vote -- which means we can not learn who voted yes/no on this (which really should be illegal, in my opinion... ). And although some may have abstained from that voice vote, we know that NO one voted against it... *The House will no doubt vote on H.Res. 34 shortly (introduced by Nancy Pelosi, and cosponsored by 11 scumbags, now referred to the House Committee on Foreign Affairs).* Info on the House Comm on Foreign Affairs is here: http://foreignaffairs.house.gov/ . Committee Chairman Berman's statement on the security situation in Israel, 12/27/08-- "Israel has a right, indeed a duty, to defend itself in response to the hundreds of rockets and mortars fired from Gaza over the past week. No government in the world would sit by and allow its citizens to be subjected to this kind of indiscriminate bombardment. The loss of innocent life is a terrible tragedy, and the blame for that tragedy lies with Hamas." To read these bills, see who cosponsored, and follow the actions as they move through Congress, go to http://Thomas.gov and enter a search term or the bill # to find what you're looking for. Whether or not */our/* employees in Congress choose to actually /represent/ us, they need to know RIGHT NOW, on Day Two of this newly seated Reign-of-Terror Empire, that WE *ARE* PAYING ATTENTION!!! If you need contact information, please go to Congress.org and enter your zip code. And in case you're not sure where you stand on this, please check out this very moving video, "We Will Not Go Down (Song for Gaza)" posted at Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlfhoU66s4Y or just have a look at ANY news from somewhere other than the US... even Ha'aretz, in Israel, is reporting reality! Finally, a "Let Gaza Live" march on Washington is being organized. Details at ya basta! Out with them ALL! Janice Matthews -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rmigalla at earthlink.net Fri Jan 9 14:09:46 2009 From: rmigalla at earthlink.net (Robin Migalla) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 13:09:46 -0600 Subject: [CitizensTruth] Homegrown Revolution - Tiny Organic Urban Homestead Message-ID: <01C9725B.8C07ED90.rmigalla@earthlink.net> Hello again Everyone, Here's one way to have a revolution: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEvHVXoNZCE Cheers, Robin From dimension04 at sbcglobal.net Fri Jan 9 18:13:14 2009 From: dimension04 at sbcglobal.net (Connie Smith) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 17:13:14 -0600 Subject: [CitizensTruth] Without a questioning media, the questions go unanswered In-Reply-To: References: <79587F2A02544A00AF4F620661DBCF92@InspironConnie> <861642.15233.qm@web30001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <73BC4BFDBD624E4BBD144FD58AA58BC3@InspironConnie> I believe exactly the opposite. In order to survive -- (literally, to not be killed as he has risen in power) -- and to serve humanity in keeping with his extraordinary mother's and grandmother's values in which he is steeped -- Obama has had to APPEAR to be no threat to the powers-that-be. Once he is safely in place over the coming year, "they" are gonna be shocked out of their shorts! And hopefully, skeptics will be greatly relieved to have been so wrong. Connie ----- Original Message ----- From: andrew ritter To: edward_rynearson at yahoo.com ; mincam2 at yahoo.com ; truth seekers ; dimension04 at sbcglobal.net Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 12:28 PM Subject: RE: [CitizensTruth] Without a questioning media, the questions go unanswered Ed, it is this last email you wrote that I think addresses the more important question, its not about his birthplace but where does Obama's allegiance lie? And I think you are 100% correct that his allegiance is/will be with NWO/CFR/Illuminatti/BLDBRG/etc..., and your point about his cabinet appointments is exactly what we need to look at and debate with those who believe that Obama is Hope & Change, This is a topic I believe Hal raised not too long ago... and is a great one for us to keep on top of, I personally believe he will do everything he can to make it appear like he is doing something different, but actions speak louder than words and it will be the Clinton crime family regime all over again and worse this time and the DEMS will have a built in excuse for the next 4 years: GW Bush (as if the DEMS did not hand him everything he wanted the entire 8 years...) I think the dialogue with DEMS needs to stay in the realm of what he actually does and doesn't do and I feel certain his true allegiance will shine its ugly light as we watch him expand the war and take more of our liberties away. peace, AR > Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 07:50:39 -0800 > From: edward_rynearson at yahoo.com > To: mincam2 at yahoo.com; citizenstruth at six.pairlist.net; dimension04 at sbcglobal.net > Subject: Re: [CitizensTruth] Without a questioning media, the questions go unanswered > > I don't think its a vendetta and if seen in the broader context of JFK, RFK, MLK9/11, 7/7, Paul Wellstone, Mike Connell, et there is obviously some power greater than our elected government that is calling the shots. If there is truth to this then they have the goods on Obama who just happens to be naming all of their people to his cabinet. Kissinger (Rockefeller's general) went on MSNBC two days ago and said that the economic situation provided Obama with the opportunity to implement a "New World Order". Sanja Gupta is a member of the CFR which basically is the officer corp for "The New World Order". Michelle Obama works for the CFR. > > If you haven't picked up a copy of the Bilderberg Group, go to the bookstore and just leaf through the photos. A picture tells a thousand words. > > I believe it is news and that we must see what's going on outside the left/right - Democractic/Republican fish bowl. > > Ed > > > --- On Thu, 1/8/09, Connie Smith wrote: > > > From: Connie Smith > > Subject: Re: [CitizensTruth] Without a questioning media,the questions go unanswered > > To: mincam2 at yahoo.com, citizenstruth at six.pairlist.net, edward_rynearson at yahoo.com > > Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 7:11 AM > > I agree with Chuck. > > > > > > > > I don't know if I hit Reply or Reply All on this topic > > previously. > > > > Please excuse if this is a repeat: > > > > > > > > More than ever, I can't see any sensible reason to > > pursue this. There are > > so many urgent constitutional violations that have piled up > > and are actually > > threatening us that I would think a person who is sincere > > about the > > Constitution would be spending their energy on those > > fronts. > > > > But instead, there's a vendetta-like search for a > > technicality to un-do > > probably the only legitimate election process (in terms of > > votes counted) > > that we've had in decades. It's petty, vicious, > > and stupid. > > > > If there was any evidence that Obama is some sort of > > foreign agent trying to > > sneak into the presidency and, from there, take over the > > world, maybe it > > would merit some attention. > > > > But to seriously pursue to derail the inauguration of an > > intelligent guy > > who's soaked in the values of his American > > midwestern-roots nurturers, who > > has a history of humanitarian ideals and actions, who is > > highly-solution > > oriented, and who is willing to literally risk his life to > > take on arguably > > the hardest job in the world (and probably more > > temperamentally and > > intellectually qualified than anyone we've ever had > > before) -- well, it's an > > absolutely idiotic effort. It's an outright sinister > > effort. > > > > There ARE extremely serious -- critical -- constitutional > > issues to work on. > > SINCERE people will do that. But Berg and buddies have the > > mentality of > > assassins -- and ought to be regarded and treated with the > > utmost scorn and > > contempt. > > > > Connie > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Chuck Minne > > To: citizenstruth at six.pairlist.net ; > > edward_rynearson at yahoo.com > > Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 12:11 AM > > Subject: Re: [CitizensTruth] Without a questioning > > media,the questions go unanswered > > > > > > I can't figure out why we should care at this > > point. With the mess that the country is in, it seems to me > > that the last thing we need is to be further disrupted by is > > this issue. Do we really want to create a political shambles > > at this point? I say very vehemently, "NO!" > > > > It is my personal belief that he was probably born > > in Kenya, but I don't give a shit. There are far, far > > worse tramplings of the Constitution that should be > > corrected (but won't) way before this one is even > > considered. > > > > Let it go! Forget it! > > > > > > > > > > "I have lost faith, godammit! I put my faith > > in the People and that was a mistake! This is a shit people! > > They get stolen blind by their politicians and they lick > > their boots. They send their kids off to die for > > somebody's business deal and they celebrate it like > > they're doing something heroic! This great and glorious > > people! Lazy sacks of junk food and jingo!" > > > > From: "The Army of the Republic" by > > Stuart Archer Cohen > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 1/8/09, Edward Rynearson > > wrote: > > > > From: Edward Rynearson > > > > Subject: [CitizensTruth] Without a questioning > > media, the questions go unanswered > > To: citizenstruth at six.pairlist.net > > Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 12:01 AM > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. Check it out. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mincam2 at yahoo.com Fri Jan 9 23:04:19 2009 From: mincam2 at yahoo.com (Chuck Minne) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 20:04:19 -0800 (PST) Subject: [CitizensTruth] Without a questioning media, the questions go unanswered In-Reply-To: <73BC4BFDBD624E4BBD144FD58AA58BC3@InspironConnie> Message-ID: <736218.49361.qm@web36908.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I think both have a point. While I have been underwhelmed by a lot of Obama's appointments, I think the following are fantastic: ? "They include John Holdren, who heads the Science, Technology, and Public Policy Program at Harvard University, as the president?s science adviser; Jane Lubchenco, a highly regarded marine scientist from Oregon State University to head the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration; and biomedical researchers Harold Varmus, a former director of the National Institutes of Health and Nobel laureate, and Eric Lander, a key leader in the Human Genome Project and founding director of the Broad Institute at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and Harvard, to serve with Dr. Holdren as co-chairs of the President?s Council of Advisers on Science and Technology." ? "These nominations come on the heels of earlier nominations that include Steven Chu, a Nobel Prize-winning physicist from the University of California at Berkeley and head of the Lawrence-Berkeley National Laboratory to head the US Department of Energy." ? With regard to toeing the establishment line, I simply think that it has to be really scary to be someone in a position to upset those who really run things. Look at what happened to Kennedy, King, Kennedy, Foster, and most recently Connelly (and probably a lot more that I am unaware of.) A president has to wonder just how much they will let him get away with. I expect that Obama does. ? ? "I have lost faith, godammit! I put my faith in the People and that was a mistake! This is a shit people! They get stolen blind by their politicians and they lick their boots. They send their kids off to die for somebody's business deal and they celebrate it like they're doing something heroic! This great and glorious people! Lazy sacks of junk food and jingo!" ? From: "The Army of the Republic"? by Stuart Archer Cohen ? --- On Fri, 1/9/09, Connie Smith wrote: From: Connie Smith Subject: Re: [CitizensTruth] Without a questioning media, the questions go unanswered To: "andrew ritter" , edward_rynearson at yahoo.com, mincam2 at yahoo.com, "truth seekers" Date: Friday, January 9, 2009, 5:13 PM #yiv891960591 .hmmessage P { PADDING-RIGHT:0px;PADDING-LEFT:0px;PADDING-BOTTOM:0px;MARGIN:0px;PADDING-TOP:0px;} #yiv891960591 { FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:Verdana;} ? ? I believe exactly the opposite.? ? In order to survive -- (literally, to not be killed as he?has risen?in power) -- and to serve humanity in keeping with his?extraordinary mother's and?grandmother's values in which he is steeped?--?Obama has had to APPEAR to be no threat to the powers-that-be. ? Once he is safely in place over the coming year,?"they" are gonna be shocked out of their shorts!? And hopefully, skeptics will be greatly relieved to have been so wrong. ? Connie ? ? ? ----- Original Message ----- From: andrew ritter To: edward_rynearson at yahoo.com ; mincam2 at yahoo.com ; truth seekers ; dimension04 at sbcglobal.net Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 12:28 PM Subject: RE: [CitizensTruth] Without a questioning media, the questions go unanswered #yiv891960591 .hmmessage P {margin:0px;padding:0px;} #yiv891960591 {font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;} Ed, it is this last email you wrote that I think addresses the more important question, its not about his birthplace but where does Obama's allegiance lie? And I think you are 100% correct that his allegiance is/will be with NWO/CFR/Illuminatti/BLDBRG/etc..., and your point about his cabinet appointments is exactly what we need to look at and debate with those who believe that Obama is Hope & Change, This is a topic I believe Hal raised not too long ago... and is a great one for us to keep on top of, I personally believe he will do everything he can to make it appear like he is doing something different, but actions speak louder than words and it will be the Clinton crime family regime all over again and worse this time and the DEMS will have a built in excuse for the next 4 years:? GW Bush (as if the DEMS did not hand him everything he wanted the entire 8 years...) I think the dialogue with DEMS needs to stay in the realm of what he actually does and doesn't do and I feel certain his true allegiance will shine its ugly light as we watch him expand the war and take more of our liberties away. peace, AR ? > Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 07:50:39 -0800 > From: edward_rynearson at yahoo.com > To: mincam2 at yahoo.com; citizenstruth at six.pairlist.net; dimension04 at sbcglobal.net > Subject: Re: [CitizensTruth] Without a questioning media, the questions go unanswered > > I don't think its a vendetta and if seen in the broader context of JFK, RFK, MLK9/11, 7/7, Paul Wellstone, Mike Connell, et there is obviously some power greater than our elected government that is calling the shots. If there is truth to this then they have the goods on Obama who just happens to be naming all of their people to his cabinet. Kissinger (Rockefeller's general) went on MSNBC two days ago and said that the economic situation provided Obama with the opportunity to implement a "New World Order". Sanja Gupta is a member of the CFR which basically is the officer corp for "The New World Order". Michelle Obama works for the CFR. > > If you haven't picked up a copy of the Bilderberg Group, go to the bookstore and just leaf through the photos. A picture tells a thousand words. > > I believe it is news and that we must see what's going on outside the left/right - Democractic/Republican fish bowl. > > Ed > > > --- On Thu, 1/8/09, Connie Smith wrote: > > > From: Connie Smith > > Subject: Re: [CitizensTruth] Without a questioning media,the questions go unanswered > > To: mincam2 at yahoo.com, citizenstruth at six.pairlist.net, edward_rynearson at yahoo.com > > Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 7:11 AM > > I agree with Chuck. > > > > > > > > I don't know if I hit Reply or Reply All on this topic > > previously. > > > > Please excuse if this is a repeat: > > > > > > > > More than ever, I can't see any sensible reason to > > pursue this. There are > > so many urgent constitutional violations that have piled up > > and are actually > > threatening us that I would think a person who is sincere > > about the > > Constitution would be spending their energy on those > > fronts. > > > > But instead, there's a vendetta-like search for a > > technicality to un-do > > probably the only legitimate election process (in terms of > > votes counted) > > that we've had in decades. It's petty, vicious, > > and stupid. > > > > If there was any evidence that Obama is some sort of > > foreign agent trying to > > sneak into the presidency and, from there, take over the > > world, maybe it > > would merit some attention. > > > > But to seriously pursue to derail the inauguration of an > > intelligent guy > > who's soaked in the values of his American > > midwestern-roots nurturers, who > > has a history of humanitarian ideals and actions, who is > > highly-solution > > oriented, and who is willing to literally risk his life to > > take on arguably > > the hardest job in the world (and probably more > > temperamentally and > > intellectually qualified than anyone we've ever had > > before) -- well, it's an > > absolutely idiotic effort. It's an outright sinister > > effort. > > > > There ARE extremely serious -- critical -- constitutional > > issues to work on. > > SINCERE people will do that. But Berg and buddies have the > > mentality of > > assassins -- and ought to be regarded and treated with the > > utmost scorn and > > contempt. > > > > Connie > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Chuck Minne > > To: citizenstruth at six.pairlist.net ; > > edward_rynearson at yahoo.com > > Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 12:11 AM > > Subject: Re: [CitizensTruth] Without a questioning > > media,the questions go unanswered > > > > > > I can't figure out why we should care at this > > point. With the mess that the country is in, it seems to me > > that the last thing we need is to be further disrupted by is > > this issue. Do we really want to create a political shambles > > at this point? I say very vehemently, "NO!" > > > > It is my personal belief that he was probably born > > in Kenya, but I don't give a shit. There are far, far > > worse tramplings of the Constitution that should be > > corrected (but won't) way before this one is even > > considered. > > > > Let it go! Forget it! > > > > > > > > > > "I have lost faith, godammit! I put my faith > > in the People and that was a mistake! This is a shit people! > > They get stolen blind by their politicians and they lick > > their boots. They send their kids off to die for > > somebody's business deal and they celebrate it like > > they're doing something heroic! This great and glorious > > people! Lazy sacks of junk food and jingo!" > > > > From: "The Army of the Republic" by > > Stuart Archer Cohen > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 1/8/09, Edward Rynearson > > wrote: > > > > From: Edward Rynearson > > > > Subject: [CitizensTruth] Without a questioning > > media, the questions go unanswered > > To: citizenstruth at six.pairlist.net > > Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 12:01 AM > > > > > > Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. Check it out. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rmigalla at earthlink.net Sat Jan 10 08:46:22 2009 From: rmigalla at earthlink.net (Robin Migalla) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 07:46:22 -0600 Subject: [CitizensTruth] Without a questioning media, the questions go unanswered Message-ID: <01C972F7.895D6E20.rmigalla@earthlink.net> Funny thing, Connie. Lately, I've had this thought - If he is who he appears to be he will be killed. If he isn't, then we'll know. What an awful dilemma. I surely hope you're right, Connie, but I can't seem to quiet my own skepticism; especially, in light of the people with whom he is choosing to surround himself - Rev. Rick Warren Rahm Emmanuael Robert Gates Susan E. Rice Hilary Clinton George Soros Zbigniew Brzezinski Sanjay Gupta Joel Skousen Tony Rezko I'm not having a happy feeling in my belly with these people. Color me waiting and watching, Robin -----Original Message----- From: Connie Smith [SMTP:dimension04 at sbcglobal.net] Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 17:13 To: andrew ritter; edward_rynearson at yahoo.com; mincam2 at yahoo.com; truth seekers Subject: Re: [CitizensTruth] Without a questioning media, the questions go unanswered I believe exactly the opposite. In order to survive -- (literally, to not be killed as he has risen in power) -- and to serve humanity in keeping with his extraordinary mother's and grandmother's values in which he is steeped -- Obama has had to APPEAR to be no threat to the powers-that-be. Once he is safely in place over the coming year, "they" are gonna be shocked out of their shorts! And hopefully, skeptics will be greatly relieved to have been so wrong. Connie ----- Original Message ----- From: andrew ritter To: edward_rynearson at yahoo.com ; mincam2 at yahoo.com ; truth seekers ; dimension04 at sbcglobal.net Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 12:28 PM Subject: RE: [CitizensTruth] Without a questioning media, the questions go unanswered Ed, it is this last email you wrote that I think addresses the more important question, its not about his birthplace but where does Obama's allegiance lie? And I think you are 100% correct that his allegiance is/will be with NWO/CFR/Illuminatti/BLDBRG/etc..., and your point about his cabinet appointments is exactly what we need to look at and debate with those who believe that Obama is Hope & Change, This is a topic I believe Hal raised not too long ago... and is a great one for us to keep on top of, I personally believe he will do everything he can to make it appear like he is doing something different, but actions speak louder than words and it will be the Clinton crime family regime all over again and worse this time and the DEMS will have a built in excuse for the next 4 years: GW Bush (as if the DEMS did not hand him everything he wanted the entire 8 years...) I think the dialogue with DEMS needs to stay in the realm of what he actually does and doesn't do and I feel certain his true allegiance will shine its ugly light as we watch him expand the war and take more of our liberties away. peace, AR > Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 07:50:39 -0800 > From: edward_rynearson at yahoo.com > To: mincam2 at yahoo.com; citizenstruth at six.pairlist.net; dimension04 at s bcglobal.net > Subject: Re: [CitizensTruth] Without a questioning media, the questions go unanswered > > I don't think its a vendetta and if seen in the broader context of JFK, RFK, MLK9/11, 7/7, Paul Wellstone, Mike Connell, et there is obviously some power greater than our elected government that is calling the shots. If there is truth to this then they have the goods on Obama who just happens to be naming all of their people to his cabinet. Kissinger (Rockefeller's general) went on MSNBC two days ago and said that the economic situation provided Obama with the opportunity to implement a "New World Order". Sanja Gupta is a member of the CFR which basically is the officer corp for "The New World Order". Michelle Obama works for the CFR. > > If you haven't picked up a copy of the Bilderberg Group, go to the bookstore and just leaf through the photos. A picture tells a thousand words. > > I believe it is news and that we must see what's going on outside the left/right - Democractic/Republican fish bowl. > > Ed > > > --- On Thu, 1/8/09, Connie Smith wrote: > > > From: Connie Smith > > Subject: Re: [CitizensTruth] Without a questioning media,the questions go unanswered > > To: mincam2 at yahoo.com, citizenstruth at six.pairlist.net, edward_rynearson at yahoo.com > > Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 7:11 AM > > I agree with Chuck. > > > > > > > > I don't know if I hit Reply or Reply All on this topic > > previously. > > > > Please excuse if this is a repeat: > > > > > > > > More than ever, I can't see any sensible reason to > > pursue this. There are > > so many urgent constitutional violations that have piled up > > and are actually > > threatening us that I would think a person who is sincere > > about the > > Constitution would be spending their energy on those > > fronts. > > > > But instead, there's a vendetta-like search for a > > technicality to un-do > > probably the only legitimate election process (in terms of > > votes counted) > > that we've had in decades. It's petty, vicious, > > and stupid. > > > > If there was any evidence that Obama is some sort of > > foreign agent trying to > > sneak into the presidency and, from there, take over the > > world, maybe it > > would merit some attention. > > > > But to seriously pursue to derail the inauguration of an > > intelligent guy > > who's soaked in the values of his American > > midwestern-roots nurturers, who > > has a history of humanitarian ideals and actions, who is > > highly-solution > > oriented, and who is willing to literally risk his life to > > take on arguably > > the hardest job in the world (and probably more > > temperamentally and > > intellectually qualified than anyone we've ever had > > before) -- well, it's an > > absolutely idiotic effort. It's an outright sinister > > effort. > > > > There ARE extremely serious -- critical -- constitutional > > issues to work on. > > SINCERE people will do that. But Berg and buddies have the > > mentality of > > assassins -- and ought to be regarded and treated with the > > utmost scorn and > > contempt. > > > > Connie > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Chuck Minne > > To: citizenstruth at six.pairlist.net ; > > edward_rynearson at yahoo.com > > Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 12:11 AM > > Subject: Re: [CitizensTruth] Without a questioning > > media,the questions go unanswered > > > > > > I can't figure out why we should care at this > > point. With the mess that the country is in, it seems to me > > that the last thing we need is to be further disrupted by is > > this issue. Do we really want to create a political shambles > > at this point? I say very vehemently, "NO!" > > > > It is my personal belief that he was probably born > > in Kenya, but I don't give a shit. There are far, far > > worse tramplings of the Constitution that should be > > corrected (but won't) way before this one is even > > considered. > > > > Let it go! Forget it! > > > > > > > > > > "I have lost faith, godammit! I put my faith > > in the People and that was a mistake! This is a shit people! > > They get stolen blind by their politicians and they lick > > their boots. They send their kids off to die for > > somebody's business deal and they celebrate it like > > they're doing something heroic! This great and glorious > > people! Lazy sacks of junk food and jingo!" > > > > From: "The Army of the Republic" by > > Stuart Archer Cohen > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 1/8/09, Edward Rynearson > > wrote: > > > > From: Edward Rynearson > > > > Subject: [CitizensTruth] Without a questioning > > media, the questions go unanswered > > To: citizenstruth at six.pairlist.net > > Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 12:01 AM > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------ Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. Check it out. << File: ATT00595.htm; charset = Windows-1252 >> << File: ATT00596.txt >> From welaware at merr.com Sat Jan 10 09:01:44 2009 From: welaware at merr.com (Kris Knight) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 08:01:44 -0600 Subject: [CitizensTruth] Without a questioning media, the questions go unanswered In-Reply-To: <01C972F7.895D6E20.rmigalla@earthlink.net> References: <01C972F7.895D6E20.rmigalla@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Ditto, but I'm trying to not engage in anger and prejudgment. I also have not done my homework and read TEAM OR RIVALS, so for sure can't judge yet. I think of him as having the task of steering a huge team of gigantic horses much larger than himself, standing tall with the ONE set of reins in his hands, having never steered a team this big before, but having confidence and great rapport with horses. Ever seen a picture of someone who DOES do this? That's how I see Obama. And if you've even ridden one horse, you realize how much finesse goes into a good ride with even one horse, especially a horse you've never ridden before. The true challenge comes when the horse has something in mind contrary to the one holding the reins... On Jan 10, 2009, at 7:46 AM, Robin Migalla wrote: > Funny thing, Connie. Lately, I've had this thought - If he is who he > appears to be he will be killed. If he isn't, then we'll know. > What an > awful dilemma. I surely hope you're right, Connie, but I can't seem > to > quiet my own skepticism; especially, in light of the people with > whom he is > choosing to surround himself - > > Rev. Rick Warren > Rahm Emmanuael > Robert Gates > Susan E. Rice > Hilary Clinton > George Soros > Zbigniew Brzezinski > Sanjay Gupta > Joel Skousen > Tony Rezko > > I'm not having a happy feeling in my belly with these people. > > Color me waiting and watching, > Robin > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Connie Smith [SMTP:dimension04 at sbcglobal.net] > Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 17:13 > To: andrew ritter; edward_rynearson at yahoo.com; mincam2 at yahoo.com; > truth > seekers > Subject: Re: [CitizensTruth] Without a questioning media, the > questions go > unanswered > > > > I believe exactly the opposite. > > In order to survive -- (literally, to not be killed as he has risen in > power) -- and to serve humanity in keeping with his extraordinary > mother's > and grandmother's values in which he is steeped -- Obama has had to > APPEAR > to be no threat to the powers-that-be. > > Once he is safely in place over the coming year, "they" are gonna be > shocked out of their shorts! And hopefully, skeptics will be greatly > relieved to have been so wrong. > > Connie > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: andrew ritter > To: edward_rynearson at yahoo.com ; mincam2 at yahoo.com ; truth seekers ; > dimension04 at sbcglobal.net > Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 12:28 PM > Subject: RE: [CitizensTruth] Without a questioning media, the > questions > go unanswered > > > Ed, > > it is this last email you wrote that I think addresses the more > important > question, > > its not about his birthplace but where does Obama's allegiance lie? > > And I think you are 100% correct that his allegiance is/will be with > NWO/CFR/Illuminatti/BLDBRG/etc..., > > and your point about his cabinet appointments is exactly what we > need to > look at and debate with those who believe that Obama is Hope & Change, > > This is a topic I believe Hal raised not too long ago... and is a > great > one for us to keep on top of, > > I personally believe he will do everything he can to make it appear > like > he is doing something different, but actions speak louder than words > and it > will be the Clinton crime family regime all over again and worse > this time > and the DEMS will have a built in excuse for the next 4 years: GW > Bush > > (as if the DEMS did not hand him everything he wanted the entire 8 > years...) > > I think the dialogue with DEMS needs to stay in the realm of what he > actually does and doesn't do and I feel certain his true allegiance > will > shine its ugly light as we watch him expand the war and take more of > our > liberties away. > > peace, > > AR > > > > > > > > > > >> Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 07:50:39 -0800 >> From: edward_rynearson at yahoo.com >> To: mincam2 at yahoo.com; citizenstruth at six.pairlist.net; dimension04 at s > bcglobal.net >> Subject: Re: [CitizensTruth] Without a questioning media, the >> questions > go unanswered >> >> I don't think its a vendetta and if seen in the broader context of >> JFK, > RFK, MLK9/11, 7/7, Paul Wellstone, Mike Connell, et there is > obviously some > power greater than our elected government that is calling the shots. > If > there is truth to this then they have the goods on Obama who just > happens > to be naming all of their people to his cabinet. Kissinger > (Rockefeller's > general) went on MSNBC two days ago and said that the economic > situation > provided Obama with the opportunity to implement a "New World > Order". Sanja > Gupta is a member of the CFR which basically is the officer corp for > "The > New World Order". Michelle Obama works for the CFR. >> >> If you haven't picked up a copy of the Bilderberg Group, go to the > bookstore and just leaf through the photos. A picture tells a thousand > words. >> >> I believe it is news and that we must see what's going on outside the > left/right - Democractic/Republican fish bowl. >> >> Ed >> >> >> --- On Thu, 1/8/09, Connie Smith wrote: >> >>> From: Connie Smith >>> Subject: Re: [CitizensTruth] Without a questioning media,the > questions go unanswered >>> To: mincam2 at yahoo.com, citizenstruth at six.pairlist.net, > edward_rynearson at yahoo.com >>> Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 7:11 AM >>> I agree with Chuck. >>> >>> >>> >>> I don't know if I hit Reply or Reply All on this topic >>> previously. >>> >>> Please excuse if this is a repeat: >>> >>> >>> >>> More than ever, I can't see any sensible reason to >>> pursue this. There are >>> so many urgent constitutional violations that have piled up >>> and are actually >>> threatening us that I would think a person who is sincere >>> about the >>> Constitution would be spending their energy on those >>> fronts. >>> >>> But instead, there's a vendetta-like search for a >>> technicality to un-do >>> probably the only legitimate election process (in terms of >>> votes counted) >>> that we've had in decades. It's petty, vicious, >>> and stupid. >>> >>> If there was any evidence that Obama is some sort of >>> foreign agent trying to >>> sneak into the presidency and, from there, take over the >>> world, maybe it >>> would merit some attention. >>> >>> But to seriously pursue to derail the inauguration of an >>> intelligent guy >>> who's soaked in the values of his American >>> midwestern-roots nurturers, who >>> has a history of humanitarian ideals and actions, who is >>> highly-solution >>> oriented, and who is willing to literally risk his life to >>> take on arguably >>> the hardest job in the world (and probably more >>> temperamentally and >>> intellectually qualified than anyone we've ever had >>> before) -- well, it's an >>> absolutely idiotic effort. It's an outright sinister >>> effort. >>> >>> There ARE extremely serious -- critical -- constitutional >>> issues to work on. >>> SINCERE people will do that. But Berg and buddies have the >>> mentality of >>> assassins -- and ought to be regarded and treated with the >>> utmost scorn and >>> contempt. >>> >>> Connie >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Chuck Minne >>> To: citizenstruth at six.pairlist.net ; >>> edward_rynearson at yahoo.com >>> Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 12:11 AM >>> Subject: Re: [CitizensTruth] Without a questioning >>> media,the questions go unanswered >>> >>> >>> I can't figure out why we should care at this >>> point. With the mess that the country is in, it seems to me >>> that the last thing we need is to be further disrupted by is >>> this issue. Do we really want to create a political shambles >>> at this point? I say very vehemently, "NO!" >>> >>> It is my personal belief that he was probably born >>> in Kenya, but I don't give a shit. There are far, far >>> worse tramplings of the Constitution that should be >>> corrected (but won't) way before this one is even >>> considered. >>> >>> Let it go! Forget it! >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> "I have lost faith, godammit! I put my faith >>> in the People and that was a mistake! This is a shit people! >>> They get stolen blind by their politicians and they lick >>> their boots. They send their kids off to die for >>> somebody's business deal and they celebrate it like >>> they're doing something heroic! This great and glorious >>> people! Lazy sacks of junk food and jingo!" >>> >>> From: "The Army of the Republic" by >>> Stuart Archer Cohen >>> >>> >>> >>> --- On Thu, 1/8/09, Edward Rynearson >>> wrote: >>> >>> From: Edward Rynearson >>> >>> Subject: [CitizensTruth] Without a questioning >>> media, the questions go unanswered >>> To: citizenstruth at six.pairlist.net >>> Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 12:01 AM >>> >>> >>> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ------ > Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. Check it out. << File: > ATT00595.htm; charset = Windows-1252 >> << File: ATT00596.txt >> > _______________________________________________ > CitizensTruth mailing list > CitizensTruth at six.pairlist.net > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/citizenstruth > website: http://citizenstruth.info Kris Knight of WellAware Life Enhancement Center Phone: 1-608-ALL-LIFE welaware at merr.com From janice.matthews at gmail.com Sat Jan 10 11:20:05 2009 From: janice.matthews at gmail.com (Janice Matthews) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 10:20:05 -0600 Subject: [CitizensTruth] Without a questioning media, the questions go unanswered In-Reply-To: References: <01C972F7.895D6E20.rmigalla@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4968CAB5.8050500@gmail.com> If he had ANY experience steering horses before, I'd have more hope, I think. The people he's putting around him haven't steered in a direction I would choose, either... For me, it comes back to the bottom line issue ... "New Face - Same Empire." Until WE get reins to the Empire so we can send it back to the barn, it's going to continue to be a runaway team... Janice Kris Knight wrote: > Ditto, but I'm trying to not engage in anger and prejudgment. I also > have not done my homework and read TEAM OR RIVALS, so for sure can't > judge yet. I think of him as having the task of steering a huge team > of gigantic horses much larger than himself, standing tall with the > ONE set of reins in his hands, having never steered a team this big > before, but having confidence and great rapport with horses. Ever > seen a picture of someone who DOES do this? That's how I see Obama. > And if you've even ridden one horse, you realize how much finesse goes > into a good ride with even one horse, especially a horse you've never > ridden before. The true challenge comes when the horse has something > in mind contrary to the one holding the reins... > > On Jan 10, 2009, at 7:46 AM, Robin Migalla wrote: > >> Funny thing, Connie. Lately, I've had this thought - If he is who he >> appears to be he will be killed. If he isn't, then we'll know. What an >> awful dilemma. I surely hope you're right, Connie, but I can't seem to >> quiet my own skepticism; especially, in light of the people with whom >> he is >> choosing to surround himself - >> >> Rev. Rick Warren >> Rahm Emmanuael >> Robert Gates >> Susan E. Rice >> Hilary Clinton >> George Soros >> Zbigniew Brzezinski >> Sanjay Gupta >> Joel Skousen >> Tony Rezko >> >> I'm not having a happy feeling in my belly with these people. >> >> Color me waiting and watching, >> Robin >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Connie Smith [SMTP:dimension04 at sbcglobal.net] >> Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 17:13 >> To: andrew ritter; edward_rynearson at yahoo.com; mincam2 at yahoo.com; >> truth >> seekers >> Subject: Re: [CitizensTruth] Without a questioning media, the >> questions go >> unanswered >> >> >> >> I believe exactly the opposite. >> >> In order to survive -- (literally, to not be killed as he has risen in >> power) -- and to serve humanity in keeping with his extraordinary >> mother's >> and grandmother's values in which he is steeped -- Obama has had to >> APPEAR >> to be no threat to the powers-that-be. >> >> Once he is safely in place over the coming year, "they" are gonna be >> shocked out of their shorts! And hopefully, skeptics will be greatly >> relieved to have been so wrong. >> >> Connie >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: andrew ritter >> To: edward_rynearson at yahoo.com ; mincam2 at yahoo.com ; truth seekers ; >> dimension04 at sbcglobal.net >> Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 12:28 PM >> Subject: RE: [CitizensTruth] Without a questioning media, the questions >> go unanswered >> >> >> Ed, >> >> it is this last email you wrote that I think addresses the more >> important >> question, >> >> its not about his birthplace but where does Obama's allegiance lie? >> >> And I think you are 100% correct that his allegiance is/will be with >> NWO/CFR/Illuminatti/BLDBRG/etc..., >> >> and your point about his cabinet appointments is exactly what we >> need to >> look at and debate with those who believe that Obama is Hope & Change, >> >> This is a topic I believe Hal raised not too long ago... and is a great >> one for us to keep on top of, >> >> I personally believe he will do everything he can to make it appear >> like >> he is doing something different, but actions speak louder than words >> and it >> will be the Clinton crime family regime all over again and worse this >> time >> and the DEMS will have a built in excuse for the next 4 years: GW Bush >> >> (as if the DEMS did not hand him everything he wanted the entire 8 >> years...) >> >> I think the dialogue with DEMS needs to stay in the realm of what he >> actually does and doesn't do and I feel certain his true allegiance will >> shine its ugly light as we watch him expand the war and take more of our >> liberties away. >> >> peace, >> >> AR >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 07:50:39 -0800 >>> From: edward_rynearson at yahoo.com >>> To: mincam2 at yahoo.com; citizenstruth at six.pairlist.net; dimension04 at s >> bcglobal.net >>> Subject: Re: [CitizensTruth] Without a questioning media, the questions >> go unanswered >>> >>> I don't think its a vendetta and if seen in the broader context of JFK, >> RFK, MLK9/11, 7/7, Paul Wellstone, Mike Connell, et there is >> obviously some >> power greater than our elected government that is calling the shots. If >> there is truth to this then they have the goods on Obama who just >> happens >> to be naming all of their people to his cabinet. Kissinger >> (Rockefeller's >> general) went on MSNBC two days ago and said that the economic situation >> provided Obama with the opportunity to implement a "New World Order". >> Sanja >> Gupta is a member of the CFR which basically is the officer corp for >> "The >> New World Order". Michelle Obama works for the CFR. >>> >>> If you haven't picked up a copy of the Bilderberg Group, go to the >> bookstore and just leaf through the photos. A picture tells a thousand >> words. >>> >>> I believe it is news and that we must see what's going on outside the >> left/right - Democractic/Republican fish bowl. >>> >>> Ed >>> >>> >>> --- On Thu, 1/8/09, Connie Smith wrote: >>> >>>> From: Connie Smith >>>> Subject: Re: [CitizensTruth] Without a questioning media,the >> questions go unanswered >>>> To: mincam2 at yahoo.com, citizenstruth at six.pairlist.net, >> edward_rynearson at yahoo.com >>>> Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 7:11 AM >>>> I agree with Chuck. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I don't know if I hit Reply or Reply All on this topic >>>> previously. >>>> >>>> Please excuse if this is a repeat: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> More than ever, I can't see any sensible reason to >>>> pursue this. There are >>>> so many urgent constitutional violations that have piled up >>>> and are actually >>>> threatening us that I would think a person who is sincere >>>> about the >>>> Constitution would be spending their energy on those >>>> fronts. >>>> >>>> But instead, there's a vendetta-like search for a >>>> technicality to un-do >>>> probably the only legitimate election process (in terms of >>>> votes counted) >>>> that we've had in decades. It's petty, vicious, >>>> and stupid. >>>> >>>> If there was any evidence that Obama is some sort of >>>> foreign agent trying to >>>> sneak into the presidency and, from there, take over the >>>> world, maybe it >>>> would merit some attention. >>>> >>>> But to seriously pursue to derail the inauguration of an >>>> intelligent guy >>>> who's soaked in the values of his American >>>> midwestern-roots nurturers, who >>>> has a history of humanitarian ideals and actions, who is >>>> highly-solution >>>> oriented, and who is willing to literally risk his life to >>>> take on arguably >>>> the hardest job in the world (and probably more >>>> temperamentally and >>>> intellectually qualified than anyone we've ever had >>>> before) -- well, it's an >>>> absolutely idiotic effort. It's an outright sinister >>>> effort. >>>> >>>> There ARE extremely serious -- critical -- constitutional >>>> issues to work on. >>>> SINCERE people will do that. But Berg and buddies have the >>>> mentality of >>>> assassins -- and ought to be regarded and treated with the >>>> utmost scorn and >>>> contempt. >>>> >>>> Connie >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Chuck Minne >>>> To: citizenstruth at six.pairlist.net ; >>>> edward_rynearson at yahoo.com >>>> Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 12:11 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [CitizensTruth] Without a questioning >>>> media,the questions go unanswered >>>> >>>> >>>> I can't figure out why we should care at this >>>> point. With the mess that the country is in, it seems to me >>>> that the last thing we need is to be further disrupted by is >>>> this issue. Do we really want to create a political shambles >>>> at this point? I say very vehemently, "NO!" >>>> >>>> It is my personal belief that he was probably born >>>> in Kenya, but I don't give a shit. There are far, far >>>> worse tramplings of the Constitution that should be >>>> corrected (but won't) way before this one is even >>>> considered. >>>> >>>> Let it go! Forget it! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> "I have lost faith, godammit! I put my faith >>>> in the People and that was a mistake! This is a shit people! >>>> They get stolen blind by their politicians and they lick >>>> their boots. They send their kids off to die for >>>> somebody's business deal and they celebrate it like >>>> they're doing something heroic! This great and glorious >>>> people! Lazy sacks of junk food and jingo!" >>>> >>>> From: "The Army of the Republic" by >>>> Stuart Archer Cohen >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> --- On Thu, 1/8/09, Edward Rynearson >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> From: Edward Rynearson >>>> >>>> Subject: [CitizensTruth] Without a questioning >>>> media, the questions go unanswered >>>> To: citizenstruth at six.pairlist.net >>>> Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 12:01 AM >>>> >>>> >>>> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> ------ >> Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. Check it out. << File: >> ATT00595.htm; charset = Windows-1252 >> << File: ATT00596.txt >> >> _______________________________________________ >> CitizensTruth mailing list >> CitizensTruth at six.pairlist.net >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/citizenstruth >> website: http://citizenstruth.info > > Kris Knight of WellAware Life Enhancement Center > Phone: 1-608-ALL-LIFE > welaware at merr.com > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > CitizensTruth mailing list > CitizensTruth at six.pairlist.net > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/citizenstruth > website: http://citizenstruth.info > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rmigalla at earthlink.net Sat Jan 10 15:38:31 2009 From: rmigalla at earthlink.net (Robin Migalla) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 14:38:31 -0600 Subject: [CitizensTruth] Without a questioning media, the questions go unanswered Message-ID: <01C97331.1D2E86F0.rmigalla@earthlink.net> Does anyone else get the feeling we're living in a George Lucas movie? So one of my problems is I vacillate between grabbing the reigns (pun intended) and completely letting them go and letting the horses crash into whatever it is they are heading for. I imagine somewhere in between lies an appropriate response. I just got home from our Elgin Weston A. Price Group meeting, and once again, I'm completely in awe of all of the members of our tiny little group having the courage to do the simple, but radical, thing of eating well. Each one of us in our own little way is a revolutionary. Each one of us has been ridiculed for the decision to drink raw milk, or refuse vaccines, or challenge our doctors, or turn off our televisions, oh heck I could go on and on. The speaker today covered the myths (a.k.a. media propaganda) surrounding mammography. It's no different than the media propaganda surrounding 9/11, or election fraud, or trade agreements, once again I could go on and on. Here's a guy who claims that growing your own food is a "dangerous occupation because you are in danger of becoming free": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEvHVXoNZCE Really, it's these wonderful acts of courage of each and every one of us that is bringing about the change that is inevitable. I appreciate all of you for yours. Hugs, Robin -----Original Message----- From: Janice Matthews [SMTP:janice.matthews at gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 10:20 To: truth seekers Subject: Re: [CitizensTruth] Without a questioning media, the questions go unanswered If he had ANY experience steering horses before, I'd have more hope, I think. The people he's putting around him haven't steered in a direction I would choose, either... For me, it comes back to the bottom line issue ... "New Face - Same Empire." Until WE get reins to the Empire so we can send it back to the barn, it's going to continue to be a runaway team... Janice Kris Knight wrote: > Ditto, but I'm trying to not engage in anger and prejudgment. I also > have not done my homework and read TEAM OR RIVALS, so for sure can't > judge yet. I think of him as having the task of steering a huge team > of gigantic horses much larger than himself, standing tall with the > ONE set of reins in his hands, having never steered a team this big > before, but having confidence and great rapport with horses. Ever > seen a picture of someone who DOES do this? That's how I see Obama. > And if you've even ridden one horse, you realize how much finesse goes > into a good ride with even one horse, especially a horse you've never > ridden before. The true challenge comes when the horse has something > in mind contrary to the one holding the reins... > > On Jan 10, 2009, at 7:46 AM, Robin Migalla wrote: > >> Funny thing, Connie. Lately, I've had this thought - If he is who he >> appears to be he will be killed. If he isn't, then we'll know. What an >> awful dilemma. I surely hope you're right, Connie, but I can't seem to >> quiet my own skepticism; especially, in light of the people with whom >> he is >> choosing to surround himself - >> >> Rev. Rick Warren >> Rahm Emmanuael >> Robert Gates >> Susan E. Rice >> Hilary Clinton >> George Soros >> Zbigniew Brzezinski >> Sanjay Gupta >> Joel Skousen >> Tony Rezko >> >> I'm not having a happy feeling in my belly with these people. >> >> Color me waiting and watching, >> Robin >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Connie Smith [SMTP:dimension04 at sbcglobal.net] >> Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 17:13 >> To: andrew ritter; edward_rynearson at yahoo.com; mincam2 at yahoo.com; >> truth >> seekers >> Subject: Re: [CitizensTruth] Without a questioning media, the >> questions go >> unanswered >> >> >> >> I believe exactly the opposite. >> >> In order to survive -- (literally, to not be killed as he has risen in >> power) -- and to serve humanity in keeping with his extraordinary >> mother's >> and grandmother's values in which he is steeped -- Obama has had to >> APPEAR >> to be no threat to the powers-that-be. >> >> Once he is safely in place over the coming year, "they" are gonna be >> shocked out of their shorts! And hopefully, skeptics will be greatly >> relieved to have been so wrong. >> >> Connie >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: andrew ritter >> To: edward_rynearson at yahoo.com ; mincam2 at yahoo.com ; truth seekers ; >> dimension04 at sbcglobal.net >> Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 12:28 PM >> Subject: RE: [CitizensTruth] Without a questioning media, the questions >> go unanswered >> >> >> Ed, >> >> it is this last email you wrote that I think addresses the more >> important >> question, >> >> its not about his birthplace but where does Obama's allegiance lie? >> >> And I think you are 100% correct that his allegiance is/will be with >> NWO/CFR/Illuminatti/BLDBRG/etc..., >> >> and your point about his cabinet appointments is exactly what we >> need to >> look at and debate with those who believe that Obama is Hope & Change, >> >> This is a topic I believe Hal raised not too long ago... and is a great >> one for us to keep on top of, >> >> I personally believe he will do everything he can to make it appear >> like >> he is doing something different, but actions speak louder than words >> and it >> will be the Clinton crime family regime all over again and worse this >> time >> and the DEMS will have a built in excuse for the next 4 years: GW Bush >> >> (as if the DEMS did not hand him everything he wanted the entire 8 >> years...) >> >> I think the dialogue with DEMS needs to stay in the realm of what he >> actually does and doesn't do and I feel certain his true allegiance will >> shine its ugly light as we watch him expand the war and take more of our >> liberties away. >> >> peace, >> >> AR >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 07:50:39 -0800 >>> From: edward_rynearson at yahoo.com >>> To: mincam2 at yahoo.com; citizenstruth at six.pairlist.net; dimension04 at s >> bcglobal.net >>> Subject: Re: [CitizensTruth] Without a questioning media, the questions >> go unanswered >>> >>> I don't think its a vendetta and if seen in the broader context of JFK, >> RFK, MLK9/11, 7/7, Paul Wellstone, Mike Connell, et there is >> obviously some >> power greater than our elected government that is calling the shots. If >> there is truth to this then they have the goods on Obama who just >> happens >> to be naming all of their people to his cabinet. Kissinger >> (Rockefeller's >> general) went on MSNBC two days ago and said that the economic situation >> provided Obama with the opportunity to implement a "New World Order". >> Sanja >> Gupta is a member of the CFR which basically is the officer corp for >> "The >> New World Order". Michelle Obama works for the CFR. >>> >>> If you haven't picked up a copy of the Bilderberg Group, go to the >> bookstore and just leaf through the photos. A picture tells a thousand >> words. >>> >>> I believe it is news and that we must see what's going on outside the >> left/right - Democractic/Republican fish bowl. >>> >>> Ed >>> >>> >>> --- On Thu, 1/8/09, Connie Smith wrote: >>> >>>> From: Connie Smith >>>> Subject: Re: [CitizensTruth] Without a questioning media,the >> questions go unanswered >>>> To: mincam2 at yahoo.com, citizenstruth at six.pairlist.net, >> edward_rynearson at yahoo.com >>>> Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 7:11 AM >>>> I agree with Chuck. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I don't know if I hit Reply or Reply All on this topic >>>> previously. >>>> >>>> Please excuse if this is a repeat: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> More than ever, I can't see any sensible reason to >>>> pursue this. There are >>>> so many urgent constitutional violations that have piled up >>>> and are actually >>>> threatening us that I would think a person who is sincere >>>> about the >>>> Constitution would be spending their energy on those >>>> fronts. >>>> >>>> But instead, there's a vendetta-like search for a >>>> technicality to un-do >>>> probably the only legitimate election process (in terms of >>>> votes counted) >>>> that we've had in decades. It's petty, vicious, >>>> and stupid. >>>> >>>> If there was any evidence that Obama is some sort of >>>> foreign agent trying to >>>> sneak into the presidency and, from there, take over the >>>> world, maybe it >>>> would merit some attention. >>>> >>>> But to seriously pursue to derail the inauguration of an >>>> intelligent guy >>>> who's soaked in the values of his American >>>> midwestern-roots nurturers, who >>>> has a history of humanitarian ideals and actions, who is >>>> highly-solution >>>> oriented, and who is willing to literally risk his life to >>>> take on arguably >>>> the hardest job in the world (and probably more >>>> temperamentally and >>>> intellectually qualified than anyone we've ever had >>>> before) -- well, it's an >>>> absolutely idiotic effort. It's an outright sinister >>>> effort. >>>> >>>> There ARE extremely serious -- critical -- constitutional >>>> issues to work on. >>>> SINCERE people will do that. But Berg and buddies have the >>>> mentality of >>>> assassins -- and ought to be regarded and treated with the >>>> utmost scorn and >>>> contempt. >>>> >>>> Connie >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Chuck Minne >>>> To: citizenstruth at six.pairlist.net ; >>>> edward_rynearson at yahoo.com >>>> Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 12:11 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [CitizensTruth] Without a questioning >>>> media,the questions go unanswered >>>> >>>> >>>> I can't figure out why we should care at this >>>> point. With the mess that the country is in, it seems to me >>>> that the last thing we need is to be further disrupted by is >>>> this issue. Do we really want to create a political shambles >>>> at this point? I say very vehemently, "NO!" >>>> >>>> It is my personal belief that he was probably born >>>> in Kenya, but I don't give a shit. There are far, far >>>> worse tramplings of the Constitution that should be >>>> corrected (but won't) way before this one is even >>>> considered. >>>> >>>> Let it go! Forget it! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> "I have lost faith, godammit! I put my faith >>>> in the People and that was a mistake! This is a shit people! >>>> They get stolen blind by their politicians and they lick >>>> their boots. They send their kids off to die for >>>> somebody's business deal and they celebrate it like >>>> they're doing something heroic! This great and glorious >>>> people! Lazy sacks of junk food and jingo!" >>>> >>>> From: "The Army of the Republic" by >>>> Stuart Archer Cohen >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> --- On Thu, 1/8/09, Edward Rynearson >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> From: Edward Rynearson >>>> >>>> Subject: [CitizensTruth] Without a questioning >>>> media, the questions go unanswered >>>> To: citizenstruth at six.pairlist.net >>>> Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 12:01 AM >>>> >>>> >>>> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> ------ >> Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. Check it out. << File: >> ATT00595.htm; charset = Windows-1252 >> << File: ATT00596.txt >> >> _______________________________________________ >> CitizensTruth mailing list >> CitizensTruth at six.pairlist.net >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/citizenstruth >> website: http://citizenstruth.info > > Kris Knight of WellAware Life Enhancement Center > Phone: 1-608-ALL-LIFE > welaware at merr.com > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > CitizensTruth mailing list > CitizensTruth at six.pairlist.net > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/citizenstruth > website: http://citizenstruth.info > << File: ATT00624.htm >> << File: ATT00625.txt >> From mincam2 at yahoo.com Sat Jan 10 16:07:51 2009 From: mincam2 at yahoo.com (Chuck Minne) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 13:07:51 -0800 (PST) Subject: [CitizensTruth] Without a questioning media, the questions go unanswered In-Reply-To: <01C97331.1D2E86F0.rmigalla@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <997418.2574.qm@web36901.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Two of the many unmentioned camels in any president's tent are The Worldwide Drug Trade and AIPAC - it's a scary job if you're a free-thinker. ? And I don't think WE are ever going to control the reins. That just ain't gonna happen, IMO. ? ? "I have lost faith, godammit! I put my faith in the People and that was a mistake! This is a shit people! They get stolen blind by their politicians and they lick their boots. They send their kids off to die for somebody's business deal and they celebrate it like they're doing something heroic! This great and glorious people! Lazy sacks of junk food and jingo!" ? From: "The Army of the Republic"? by Stuart Archer Cohen ? --- On Sat, 1/10/09, Robin Migalla wrote: From: Robin Migalla Subject: Re: [CitizensTruth] Without a questioning media, the questions go unanswered To: "truth seekers" Date: Saturday, January 10, 2009, 2:38 PM Does anyone else get the feeling we're living in a George Lucas movie? So one of my problems is I vacillate between grabbing the reigns (pun intended) and completely letting them go and letting the horses crash into whatever it is they are heading for. I imagine somewhere in between lies an appropriate response. I just got home from our Elgin Weston A. Price Group meeting, and once again, I'm completely in awe of all of the members of our tiny little group having the courage to do the simple, but radical, thing of eating well. Each one of us in our own little way is a revolutionary. Each one of us has been ridiculed for the decision to drink raw milk, or refuse vaccines, or challenge our doctors, or turn off our televisions, oh heck I could go on and on. The speaker today covered the myths (a.k.a. media propaganda) surrounding mammography. It's no different than the media propaganda surrounding 9/11, or election fraud, or trade agreements, once again I could go on and on. Here's a guy who claims that growing your own food is a "dangerous occupation because you are in danger of becoming free": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEvHVXoNZCE Really, it's these wonderful acts of courage of each and every one of us that is bringing about the change that is inevitable. I appreciate all of you for yours. Hugs, Robin -----Original Message----- From: Janice Matthews [SMTP:janice.matthews at gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 10:20 To: truth seekers Subject: Re: [CitizensTruth] Without a questioning media, the questions go unanswered If he had ANY experience steering horses before, I'd have more hope, I think. The people he's putting around him haven't steered in a direction I would choose, either... For me, it comes back to the bottom line issue ... "New Face - Same Empire." Until WE get reins to the Empire so we can send it back to the barn, it's going to continue to be a runaway team... Janice Kris Knight wrote: > Ditto, but I'm trying to not engage in anger and prejudgment. I also > have not done my homework and read TEAM OR RIVALS, so for sure can't > judge yet. I think of him as having the task of steering a huge team > of gigantic horses much larger than himself, standing tall with the > ONE set of reins in his hands, having never steered a team this big > before, but having confidence and great rapport with horses. Ever > seen a picture of someone who DOES do this? That's how I see Obama. > And if you've even ridden one horse, you realize how much finesse goes > into a good ride with even one horse, especially a horse you've never > ridden before. The true challenge comes when the horse has something > in mind contrary to the one holding the reins... > > On Jan 10, 2009, at 7:46 AM, Robin Migalla wrote: > >> Funny thing, Connie. Lately, I've had this thought - If he is who he >> appears to be he will be killed. If he isn't, then we'll know. What an >> awful dilemma. I surely hope you're right, Connie, but I can't seem to >> quiet my own skepticism; especially, in light of the people with whom >> he is >> choosing to surround himself - >> >> Rev. Rick Warren >> Rahm Emmanuael >> Robert Gates >> Susan E. Rice >> Hilary Clinton >> George Soros >> Zbigniew Brzezinski >> Sanjay Gupta >> Joel Skousen >> Tony Rezko >> >> I'm not having a happy feeling in my belly with these people. >> >> Color me waiting and watching, >> Robin >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Connie Smith [SMTP:dimension04 at sbcglobal.net] >> Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 17:13 >> To: andrew ritter; edward_rynearson at yahoo.com; mincam2 at yahoo.com; >> truth >> seekers >> Subject: Re: [CitizensTruth] Without a questioning media, the >> questions go >> unanswered >> >> >> >> I believe exactly the opposite. >> >> In order to survive -- (literally, to not be killed as he has risen in >> power) -- and to serve humanity in keeping with his extraordinary >> mother's >> and grandmother's values in which he is steeped -- Obama has had to >> APPEAR >> to be no threat to the powers-that-be. >> >> Once he is safely in place over the coming year, "they" are gonna be >> shocked out of their shorts! And hopefully, skeptics will be greatly >> relieved to have been so wrong. >> >> Connie >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: andrew ritter >> To: edward_rynearson at yahoo.com ; mincam2 at yahoo.com ; truth seekers ; >> dimension04 at sbcglobal.net >> Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 12:28 PM >> Subject: RE: [CitizensTruth] Without a questioning media, the questions >> go unanswered >> >> >> Ed, >> >> it is this last email you wrote that I think addresses the more >> important >> question, >> >> its not about his birthplace but where does Obama's allegiance lie? >> >> And I think you are 100% correct that his allegiance is/will be with >> NWO/CFR/Illuminatti/BLDBRG/etc..., >> >> and your point about his cabinet appointments is exactly what we >> need to >> look at and debate with those who believe that Obama is Hope & Change, >> >> This is a topic I believe Hal raised not too long ago... and is a great >> one for us to keep on top of, >> >> I personally believe he will do everything he can to make it appear >> like >> he is doing something different, but actions speak louder than words >> and it >> will be the Clinton crime family regime all over again and worse this >> time >> and the DEMS will have a built in excuse for the next 4 years: GW Bush >> >> (as if the DEMS did not hand him everything he wanted the entire 8 >> years...) >> >> I think the dialogue with DEMS needs to stay in the realm of what he >> actually does and doesn't do and I feel certain his true allegiance will >> shine its ugly light as we watch him expand the war and take more of our >> liberties away. >> >> peace, >> >> AR >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 07:50:39 -0800 >>> From: edward_rynearson at yahoo.com >>> To: mincam2 at yahoo.com; citizenstruth at six.pairlist.net; dimension04 at s >> bcglobal.net >>> Subject: Re: [CitizensTruth] Without a questioning media, the questions >> go unanswered >>> >>> I don't think its a vendetta and if seen in the broader context of JFK, >> RFK, MLK9/11, 7/7, Paul Wellstone, Mike Connell, et there is >> obviously some >> power greater than our elected government that is calling the shots. If >> there is truth to this then they have the goods on Obama who just >> happens >> to be naming all of their people to his cabinet. Kissinger >> (Rockefeller's >> general) went on MSNBC two days ago and said that the economic situation >> provided Obama with the opportunity to implement a "New World Order". >> Sanja >> Gupta is a member of the CFR which basically is the officer corp for >> "The >> New World Order". Michelle Obama works for the CFR. >>> >>> If you haven't picked up a copy of the Bilderberg Group, go to the >> bookstore and just leaf through the photos. A picture tells a thousand >> words. >>> >>> I believe it is news and that we must see what's going on outside the >> left/right - Democractic/Republican fish bowl. >>> >>> Ed >>> >>> >>> --- On Thu, 1/8/09, Connie Smith wrote: >>> >>>> From: Connie Smith >>>> Subject: Re: [CitizensTruth] Without a questioning media,the >> questions go unanswered >>>> To: mincam2 at yahoo.com, citizenstruth at six.pairlist.net, >> edward_rynearson at yahoo.com >>>> Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 7:11 AM >>>> I agree with Chuck. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I don't know if I hit Reply or Reply All on this topic >>>> previously. >>>> >>>> Please excuse if this is a repeat: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> More than ever, I can't see any sensible reason to >>>> pursue this. There are >>>> so many urgent constitutional violations that have piled up >>>> and are actually >>>> threatening us that I would think a person who is sincere >>>> about the >>>> Constitution would be spending their energy on those >>>> fronts. >>>> >>>> But instead, there's a vendetta-like search for a >>>> technicality to un-do >>>> probably the only legitimate election process (in terms of >>>> votes counted) >>>> that we've had in decades. It's petty, vicious, >>>> and stupid. >>>> >>>> If there was any evidence that Obama is some sort of >>>> foreign agent trying to >>>> sneak into the presidency and, from there, take over the >>>> world, maybe it >>>> would merit some attention. >>>> >>>> But to seriously pursue to derail the inauguration of an >>>> intelligent guy >>>> who's soaked in the values of his American >>>> midwestern-roots nurturers, who >>>> has a history of humanitarian ideals and actions, who is >>>> highly-solution >>>> oriented, and who is willing to literally risk his life to >>>> take on arguably >>>> the hardest job in the world (and probably more >>>> temperamentally and >>>> intellectually qualified than anyone we've ever had >>>> before) -- well, it's an >>>> absolutely idiotic effort. It's an outright sinister >>>> effort. >>>> >>>> There ARE extremely serious -- critical -- constitutional >>>> issues to work on. >>>> SINCERE people will do that. But Berg and buddies have the >>>> mentality of >>>> assassins -- and ought to be regarded and treated with the >>>> utmost scorn and >>>> contempt. >>>> >>>> Connie >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Chuck Minne >>>> To: citizenstruth at six.pairlist.net ; >>>> edward_rynearson at yahoo.com >>>> Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 12:11 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [CitizensTruth] Without a questioning >>>> media,the questions go unanswered >>>> >>>> >>>> I can't figure out why we should care at this >>>> point. With the mess that the country is in, it seems to me >>>> that the last thing we need is to be further disrupted by is >>>> this issue. Do we really want to create a political shambles >>>> at this point? I say very vehemently, "NO!" >>>> >>>> It is my personal belief that he was probably born >>>> in Kenya, but I don't give a shit. There are far, far >>>> worse tramplings of the Constitution that should be >>>> corrected (but won't) way before this one is even >>>> considered. >>>> >>>> Let it go! Forget it! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> "I have lost faith, godammit! I put my faith >>>> in the People and that was a mistake! This is a shit people! >>>> They get stolen blind by their politicians and they lick >>>> their boots. They send their kids off to die for >>>> somebody's business deal and they celebrate it like >>>> they're doing something heroic! This great and glorious >>>> people! Lazy sacks of junk food and jingo!" >>>> >>>> From: "The Army of the Republic" by >>>> Stuart Archer Cohen >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> --- On Thu, 1/8/09, Edward Rynearson >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> From: Edward Rynearson >>>> >>>> Subject: [CitizensTruth] Without a questioning >>>> media, the questions go unanswered >>>> To: citizenstruth at six.pairlist.net >>>> Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 12:01 AM >>>> >>>> >>>> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> ------ >> Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. Check it out. << File: >> ATT00595.htm; charset = Windows-1252 >> << File: ATT00596.txt >> >> _______________________________________________ >> CitizensTruth mailing list >> CitizensTruth at six.pairlist.net >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/citizenstruth >> website: http://citizenstruth.info > > Kris Knight of WellAware Life Enhancement Center > Phone: 1-608-ALL-LIFE > welaware at merr.com > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > CitizensTruth mailing list > CitizensTruth at six.pairlist.net > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/citizenstruth > website: http://citizenstruth.info > << File: ATT00624.htm >> << File: ATT00625.txt >> _______________________________________________ CitizensTruth mailing list CitizensTruth at six.pairlist.net http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/citizenstruth website: http://citizenstruth.info -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hal at drxyzzy.org Sun Jan 11 08:04:34 2009 From: hal at drxyzzy.org (Hal Snyder) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 07:04:34 -0600 Subject: [CitizensTruth] Money Summit at CCUU Saturday, January 17 In-Reply-To: <511064.76290.qm@web63403.mail.re1.yahoo.com> References: <511064.76290.qm@web63403.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5EC51CC8-1FFA-4203-B2C0-CEC8CA4870D9@drxyzzy.org> Please distribute: There will be a free program on understanding and confronting the economic crisis next Saturday, January 17, from 1-4 p.m. at Countryside Church, 1025 North Smith Street in Palatine, IL. The first half of the program brings expert speakers to tell us about the economic situation - how we got here and where things are headed. The second half of the program will be facilitated open discussion. Bring your issues and ideas so we can brainstorm together. Program details and press release are online at http://better-day.info - hal -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rmigalla at earthlink.net Sun Jan 11 10:52:40 2009 From: rmigalla at earthlink.net (Robin Migalla) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 09:52:40 -0600 Subject: [CitizensTruth] More questionable characters Message-ID: <01C973D2.57F525E0.rmigalla@earthlink.net> Happy Sunday Everyone, Here's a new site I've just been turned onto that seems like it might be another lightworker among us... http://www.small-mart.org/ Michael Shuman's Blog Ideas for Obamanomics: Post-Meltdown Thoughts (Part II) Posted on November 25, 2008 Many of you were probably dancing in the streets on election night. I was - even though I identify myself as an independent. That the country will finally enjoy a leader who actually cares about ideas, who speaks grammatical English, who believes in science more than ideology, who doesn't see ecological or women's rights as liberal conspiracies, who exudes discipline, confidence, and charisma, who sincerely cares about the have-nots in society, and who won't always resort to war as the answer to every national security problem is a huge relief. But beware. Or, more precisely, be wary. Two weeks before the election, a Sunday talk show featured a debate between representatives of each campaign: Senator Evan Bayh (D-Indiana) representing Barack Obama versus Senator John Kyl (R-Arizona) representing John McCain. When the debate turned to which candidate would improve the nation's economic competitiveness, the two senators agreed that the goal was to attract more global corporations and spent the rest of their time quibbling over the best means of doing so. The role of small business was relegated to Joe the Plumber. Obama's Big Thinking President-elect Obama has surrounded himself with the visionary captains of global capitalism - those who believe that "kinder, gentler" free trade and free finance, qualified with corporate responsibility, will save our fast-sinking economy. Obama's chief economic advisor during the campaign, Jason Furman, is best known for a paper arguing that Wal-Mart, because it provides cheap goods for all, is one of the most progressive corporations in America. Robert Reich made his career in a series of arguments in early issues of The American Prospect suggesting (against Laura Tyson, another Obama advisor) that ownership of business generally - let alone local ownership - no longer mattered. And as John McCain fairly observed, candidate Obama has surrounded himself with experts who made awful calls over the past decade about relaxing standards for low-income housing loans and deregulating Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, all of which contributed to the current financial mess. What's most worrisome is that no one on the Obama A-Team understands that the key to revitalizing the economy and to fixing the financial crisis is nurturing and expanding locally owned business. But at the B- and C-Team levels there is enormous sympathy for the views of us locavores. So what should they be doing? (Full article http://www.small-mart.org/obamanomics) Color me really grateful for the internet, Robin From geri at thetwofacesofmoney.com Sun Jan 11 11:44:59 2009 From: geri at thetwofacesofmoney.com (Geri Perry) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 10:44:59 -0600 Subject: [CitizensTruth] Local/sustainable/safe food to the rescue [ FW: Joel Salatin in Goshen Jan. 20!!!] Message-ID: <496A220B.2050703@thetwofacesofmoney.com> From my co-op leader - Joel Salatin to be in Goshen Indiana on Tuesday January 20, discussing local/sustainable/safe food. More info below. gerip -------- Original Message -------- / / / / -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I suspect that many of you may already know about this. I just found out from Allen Bontrager. Joel Salatin will be in Goshen on Tuesday, January 20th before he travels on to Columbus, IN for a two-day grazing conference I'm attending. Those on yahoogroups boards will not be able to get the attached flyer. If you want a copy of the flyer, email me off board at svsiemers at embarqmail.com . I'm including a link to Polyface Farms, where you can learn more about what Joel Salatin has done. He is a fascinating man who lives what he preaches. http://tinyurl.com/3pw3b6 Susan Siemers From: Farmers Market [mailto:millracemarket at hotmail.com ] Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 7:52 PM To: svsiemers at earthlink.net Subject: RE: Salatin talk Hi Susan - Thanks for your interest in the upcoming CSP-sponsored event "Local Food to the Rescue: An Evening with Joel Salatin". I suspect that this presentation will be quite different from Joel's presentation in Columbus, with this one highlighting the importance of demonstrating and promoting a "local/sustainable/safe" food supply to our customers. The event will be held in the old Goshen Theater (the venue is now home to a church ministry) - at 6:30 pm Tuesday, January 20th. See the attached flyer. Tickets are $20 each. You may purchase them in person at the Goshen Farmers Market on either of the two Saturday mornings before the event (the 12th or the 19th), or you can send a check made payable to: Community Sustainability Project, Inc. P.O. Box 1031 Goshen, IN 46527 Please include a return address, just to make sure we get your tickets to the right mailbox. We look forward to seeing you on the 20th. David Green, Mgr. Goshen Farmers Market 212 W. Washington St. Goshen, IN 46526 (574) 533-4747 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Also: to remind- pick from 2 great conferences on Jan. 21-22, the Midwest Organic Production and Marketing Conference and Trade Show, held in conjunction with the Indiana Horticulture Congress, at the Adam's Mark Hotel in Indianapolis; and the grazing conference in Columbus Indiana, Joel Salatin keynote speaker and a leader at several of the breakout discussion groups. Joel Salatin owns and operates Polyface Farms. Follow this link for more about him and his work. http://www.polyfacefarms.com/ Here's a link to the brochure for the grazing conference: http://www.agry.purdue.edu/ext/forages/pdf/2009HOAGC.pdf Why these 2 conferences were scheduled in different places instead of together? It would have been great to have them both accessible since there likely will be a great deal of overlap among the participants. -- Charlotte Wolfe Prairie Winds Farm 21439 Osborne Rd. Lakeville, IN 46536 574-291-9943 www.prairiewindsnaturefarm.com Have you read Barbara Kingsolver's book "Animal Vegetable Miracle?" From welaware at merr.com Sun Jan 11 11:49:03 2009 From: welaware at merr.com (Kris Knight) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 10:49:03 -0600 Subject: [CitizensTruth] QUESTION: Is the Israel/Palestine Message-ID: conflict profoundly affected by weapons being sold to Israel by U.S. corporations/government, who then rake in the money for the weapons businesses, who are sending more weapons in (looking for a ship to do this, apparently), who will then bring in more money, probably due by Jan. 20th? Do I have this right? You know, I remember stopping mole tunnelling remedy being to just lower something right through the tunnel that blocks them so they can't use the tunnel. Seems if tunnels are how weapons have gotten through to Palestine, that would have been easy enough, with current technology, to figure out the mapping of the tunnels and then just do something real local and specific to make the tunnel unuseable. Too practical? Probably, but with no weapons, none of this would have been possible, right? On the layoff lists and the bankruptcies list, I'm seeing almost nothing from the war corporations that make weapons. They must still be doing real well. I'd like to see a mapping of what is going down in this country and what goes down with them. And then I'd like to see what is doing well/thriving financially, and then what is remaining stable and keeping local communities going, day by day. anyone know site where I can find this info? Kris Knight of WellAware Life Enhancement Center Phone: 1-608-ALL-LIFE welaware at merr.com From edward_rynearson at yahoo.com Sun Jan 11 12:30:43 2009 From: edward_rynearson at yahoo.com (Edward Rynearson) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 09:30:43 -0800 (PST) Subject: [CitizensTruth] Dr. David Ray Griffin on 9/11 and Nationalist Faith (speech-audio) Message-ID: <325173.47568.qm@web30005.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dr. David Ray Griffin shows that the greatest obstacle to seeing the truth - that 9/11 was an inside job - is not the lack of evidence, but what can be called ?nationalist faith? - the belief that America is the ?exceptional nation?, whose leaders never deliberately do anything truly evil, at least to their own citizens. Audio available at: http://www.davidraygriffin.com From dimension04 at sbcglobal.net Sun Jan 11 12:51:28 2009 From: dimension04 at sbcglobal.net (Connie Smith) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 11:51:28 -0600 Subject: [CitizensTruth] More questionable characters In-Reply-To: <01C973D2.57F525E0.rmigalla@earthlink.net> References: <01C973D2.57F525E0.rmigalla@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <83FFF267385B4180A6D4763DA749EC3C@InspironConnie> I've lost track of it now -- I didn't archive it because I thought it was common knowledge anyway -- it being a commentary by Obama about the need to create jobs "from the bottom up, not from the top down" -- in other words, priority given to local business-building, not global. I still think he's playing it safe with APPEARING to be no threat to the powers-that-be, initially, easing his way into power until he can (almost safely) be who he really is -- possibly one of the greatest humanitarians we will ever know. Here's someone he's appointed that's being lauded as a "brilliant pick." Being a constitutional law professor -- gosh, we finally have a politician who actually KNOWS the Constitution and cares about it!! -- I think this sort of appt. shows Obama's true colors. by Frank Rich: "One of the sharpest appointments yet made by the incoming president may support decisive action: Dawn Johnsen, a law professor and former Clinton administration official who last week was chosen to run the Office of Legal Counsel in the Department of Justice. "This is the same office where the Bush apparatchik John Yoo produced his infamous memos justifying torture. Johnsen is a fierce critic of such constitutional abuses. In articles for Slate last year, she wondered 'where is the outrage, the public outcry' over a government that has acted lawlessly and that 'does not respect the legal and moral bounds of human decency.' She asked, 'How do we save our country's honor, and our own?' "As Johnsen wrote last March, we must also 'resist Bush administration efforts to hide evidence of its wrongdoing through demands for retroactive immunity, its assertions of state privilege -- and the implausible claims that openness will empower terrorists.' " http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/11/opinion/11rich.html?_r=1&th&emc=th ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Migalla" To: "Truth Group (E-mail)" Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 9:52 AM Subject: [CitizensTruth] More questionable characters > Happy Sunday Everyone, > > Here's a new site I've just been turned onto that seems like it might be > another lightworker among us... > > http://www.small-mart.org/ > > Michael Shuman's Blog > Ideas for Obamanomics: Post-Meltdown Thoughts (Part II) > > Posted on November 25, 2008 > > Many of you were probably dancing in the streets on election night. I > was - > even though I identify myself as an independent. That the country will > finally enjoy a leader who actually cares about ideas, who speaks > grammatical English, who believes in science more than ideology, who > doesn't see ecological or women's rights as liberal conspiracies, who > exudes discipline, confidence, and charisma, who sincerely cares about the > have-nots in society, and who won't always resort to war as the answer to > every national security problem is a huge relief. > > But beware. Or, more precisely, be wary. Two weeks before the election, a > Sunday talk show featured a debate between representatives of each > campaign: Senator Evan Bayh (D-Indiana) representing Barack Obama versus > Senator John Kyl (R-Arizona) representing John McCain. When the debate > turned to which candidate would improve the nation's economic > competitiveness, the two senators agreed that the goal was to attract more > global corporations and spent the rest of their time quibbling over the > best means of doing so. The role of small business was relegated to Joe > the > Plumber. > > Obama's Big Thinking > President-elect Obama has surrounded himself with the visionary captains > of > global capitalism - those who believe that "kinder, gentler" free trade > and > free finance, qualified with corporate responsibility, will save our > fast-sinking economy. Obama's chief economic advisor during the campaign, > Jason Furman, is best known for a paper arguing that Wal-Mart, because it > provides cheap goods for all, is one of the most progressive corporations > in America. Robert Reich made his career in a series of arguments in early > issues of The American Prospect suggesting (against Laura Tyson, another > Obama advisor) that ownership of business generally - let alone local > ownership - no longer mattered. And as John McCain fairly observed, > candidate Obama has surrounded himself with experts who made awful calls > over the past decade about relaxing standards for low-income housing loans > and deregulating Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, all of which contributed to > the current financial mess. > > What's most worrisome is that no one on the Obama A-Team understands that > the key to revitalizing the economy and to fixing the financial crisis is > nurturing and expanding locally owned business. But at the B- and C-Team > levels there is enormous sympathy for the views of us locavores. So what > should they be doing? (Full article http://www.small-mart.org/obamanomics) > > Color me really grateful for the internet, > Robin > _______________________________________________ > CitizensTruth mailing list > CitizensTruth at six.pairlist.net > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/citizenstruth > website: http://citizenstruth.info From geri at thetwofacesofmoney.com Sun Jan 11 13:41:17 2009 From: geri at thetwofacesofmoney.com (Geri Perry) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 12:41:17 -0600 Subject: [CitizensTruth] Starving Somalia, nuclear waste, and the story behind pirates (and empire) Message-ID: <496A3D4D.5010901@thetwofacesofmoney.com> We can add pirates to the long list of items we are being lied to about - but what about nuclear waste - and starvation, in a world awash with food? As John Perkins said, It's a story as old as empire. Excerpted from article titled "You Are Being Lied to About Pirates": Pirates have never been quite who we think they are. In the "golden age of piracy" - from 1650 to 1730 - the idea of the pirate as the senseless, savage thief that lingers today was created by the British government in a great propaganda-heave. Many ordinary people believed it was false: pirates were often rescued from the gallows by supportive crowds. Why? What did they see that we can't? . . . .In 1991, the government of Somalia - in the Horn of Africa - collapsed. Its nine million people have been teetering on starvation ever since - and many of the ugliest forces in the Western world have seen this as a great opportunity to steal the country's food supply and dump our nuclear waste in their seas. Full article: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/johann-hari/you-are-being-lied-to-abo_b_155147.html Unfortunately John Perkins, like all too many Americans, believed that the "Economic Hit Men" were operating only in third world countries. Thus we easily forget that both coasts of the US were also subjected to nuclear waste dumping from the 1940s thru 1970. Excerpted from 2002 article by Senator Bill Nelson: The United States began dumping low-level radioactive waste into the ocean in the 1940s and didn't end the practice until 1970. The drums are known to contain laboratory waste, in some cases even material from laboratories engaged in nuclear research during the Cold War. In some reported instances, it was the military that dumped such waste. The practice resulted in an estimated 94,000 barrels at depths starting at around 400 feet at sites in the Atlantic and Pacific oceans and the Gulf of Mexico. (from: http://billnelson.senate.gov/news/details.cfm?id=243995& ) NOW it seems that our government has entered into what may be the most horrific of all "public/private" partnerships: GNEP means foreign nuclear waste imported and "reprocessed" in the USA. This is a national issue! We need a big national outcry!!! Washington, Oregon, Idaho, New Mexico, Ohio, Tennessee, Kentucky, Illinois, South Carolina, and all our sister states! . . .[Hearings were held in early December] With GNEP, the Pacific Northwest, Hanford Nuclear Reservation and Idaho Falls, the Southwest and sites in the Eastern USA could all get a lot more nuclear waste (both from within and outside the country) and dirty nuclear waste ?reprocessing? plants, ?recycling? reactors, and ?advanced fuel cycle research facilities??all verbal green-washings of very dirty processes. Full article and links: http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2008/11/17/18551760.php From richardfobes at hotmail.com Sun Jan 11 13:48:09 2009 From: richardfobes at hotmail.com (Richard Fobes ) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 18:48:09 +0000 Subject: [CitizensTruth] More questionable characters Message-ID: What is most concerning to me is Obama's foreign policy. Zbig Brzenski is a dangerous fellow, defining the term 'hawkish' and very war hungry. Obama promises to enhance the 'good war' in Afghanistan by tens of thousands of troops and re-depolying troops from Iraq to Afghanistan. These promises are not humanitarian. There is no 'good war', especially the illegal war of agression that we engaged in Afghanistan. I don't want to engage in anger and defensiveness either in talking about Obama, but these things shouldn't be ignored. This justification is under the guise of the so-called War on Terror, which we KNOW is based on a lie that is 9/11. A more accurate decription is the War OF Terror, including ther biggest domestic spying program in history that Obama, unfortunately, is inheriting, not to mention the policy of torture and the Bush doctrine of 'taking the fight to the terrorists'. Obama's recent FISA vote is concerning. The promise to estabish tens of thousands of domestic troops is concerning. His past loyalties to Israel and AIPAC is concerning, though I read an article yesterday in the Guardian saying the Obama's transition team is saying that they will be ready to talk to Hamas on a low-level diplomacy level. While I am grateful for the change from Bush, anything would have been better. Obama has his plate full (overly full!). I'm encouaged by some of his words, but not most of his words about foreign policy. His actions will be interesting. -Rich -----Original Message----- From: Connie Smith Sent: 1/11/2009 5:51:28 PM To: Robin Migalla , Truth Group (E-mail) Subject: Re: [CitizensTruth] More questionable characters I've lost track of it now -- I didn't archive it because I thought it was common knowledge anyway -- it being a commentary by Obama about the need to create jobs "from the bottom up, not from the top down" -- in other words, priority given to local business-building, not global. I still think he's playing it safe with APPEARING to be no threat to the powers-that-be, initially, easing his way into power until he can (almost safely) be who he really is -- possibly one of the greatest humanitarians we will ever know. Here's someone he's appointed that's being lauded as a "brilliant pick." Being a constitutional law professor -- gosh, we finally have a politician who actually KNOWS the Constitution and cares about it!! -- I think this sort of appt. shows Obama's true colors. by Frank Rich: "One of the sharpest appointments yet made by the incoming president may support decisive action: Dawn Johnsen, a law professor and former Clinton administration official who last week was chosen to run the Office of Legal Counsel in the Department of Justice. "This is the same office where the Bush apparatchik John Yoo produced his infamous memos justifying torture. Johnsen is a fierce critic of such constitutional abuses. In articles for Slate last year, she wondered 'where is the outrage, the public outcry' over a government that has acted lawlessly and that 'does not respect the legal and moral bounds of human decency.' She asked, 'How do we save our country's honor, and our own?' "As Johnsen wrote last March, we must also 'resist Bush administration efforts to hide evidence of its wrongdoing through demands for retroactive immunity, its assertions of state privilege -- and the implausible claims that openness will empower terrorists.' " http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/11/opinion/11rich.html?_r=1&th&emc=th ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Migalla" To: "Truth Group (E-mail)" Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 9:52 AM Subject: [CitizensTruth] More questionable characters > Happy Sunday Everyone, > > Here's a new site I've just been turned onto that seems like it might be > another lightworker among us... > > http://www.small-mart.org/ > > Michael Shuman's Blog > Ideas for Obamanomics: Post-Meltdown Thoughts (Part II) > > Posted on November 25, 2008 > > Many of you were probably dancing in the streets on election night. I > was - > even though I identify myself as an independent. That the country will > finally enjoy a leader who actually cares about ideas, who speaks > grammatical English, who believes in science more than ideology, who > doesn't see ecological or women's rights as liberal conspiracies, who > exudes discipline, confidence, and charisma, who sincerely cares about the > have-nots in society, and who won't always resort to war as the answer to > every national security problem is a huge relief. > > But beware. Or, more precisely, be wary. Two weeks before the election, a > Sunday talk show featured a debate between representatives of each > campaign: Senator Evan Bayh (D-Indiana) representing Barack Obama versus > Senator John Kyl (R-Arizona) representing John McCain. When the debate > turned to which candidate would improve the nation's economic > competitiveness, the two senators agreed that the goal was to attract more > global corporations and spent the rest of their time quibbling over the > best means of doing so. The role of small business was relegated to Joe > the > Plumber. > > Obama's Big Thinking > President-elect Obama has surrounded himself with the visionary captains > of > global capitalism - those who believe that "kinder, gentler" free trade > and > free finance, qualified with corporate responsibility, will save our > fast-sinking economy. Obama's chief economic advisor during the campaign, > Jason Furman, is best known for a paper arguing that Wal-Mart, because it > provides cheap goods for all, is one of the most progressive corporations > in America. Robert Reich made his career in a series of arguments in early > issues of The American Prospect suggesting (against Laura Tyson, another > Obama advisor) that ownership of business generally - let alone local > ownership - no longer mattered. And as John McCain fairly observed, > candidate Obama has surrounded himself with experts who made awful calls > over the past decade about relaxing standards for low-income housing loans > and deregulating Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, all of which contributed to > the current financial mess. > > What's most worrisome is that no one on the Obama A-Team understands that > the key to revitalizing the economy and to fixing the financial crisis is > nurturing and expanding locally owned business. But at the B- and C-Team > levels there is enormous sympathy for the views of us locavores. So what > should they be doing? (Full article http://www.small-mart.org/obamanomics) > > Color me really grateful for the internet, > Robin > _______________________________________________ > CitizensTruth mailing list > CitizensTruth at six.pairlist.net > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/citizenstruth > website: http://citizenstruth.info _______________________________________________ CitizensTruth mailing list CitizensTruth at six.pairlist.net http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/citizenstruth website: http://citizenstruth.info From dimension04 at sbcglobal.net Sun Jan 11 14:39:44 2009 From: dimension04 at sbcglobal.net (Connie Smith) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 13:39:44 -0600 Subject: [CitizensTruth] QUESTION: Is the Israel/Palestine In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm clueless about how to go about putting together that info -- but it's a great idea! I'm SURE that war equipment is thriving, it must be. I do know, have read, that McDonald's and alcohol sales are steady and/or growing. Argh. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kris Knight" To: "truth seekers" Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 10:49 AM Subject: [CitizensTruth] QUESTION: Is the Israel/Palestine > conflict profoundly affected by weapons being sold to Israel by U.S. > corporations/government, who then rake in the money for the weapons > businesses, who are sending more weapons in (looking for a ship to do > this, apparently), who will then bring in more money, probably due by > Jan. 20th? Do I have this right? > You know, I remember stopping mole tunnelling remedy being to just lower > something right through the tunnel that blocks them so they can't use the > tunnel. Seems if tunnels are how weapons have gotten through to > Palestine, that would have been easy enough, with current technology, to > figure out the mapping of the tunnels and then just do something real > local and specific to make the tunnel unuseable. Too practical? > Probably, but with no weapons, none of this would have been possible, > right? > On the layoff lists and the bankruptcies list, I'm seeing almost nothing > from the war corporations that make weapons. They must still be doing > real well. I'd like to see a mapping of what is going down in this > country and what goes down with them. And then I'd like to see what is > doing well/thriving financially, and then what is remaining stable and > keeping local communities going, day by day. anyone know site where I > can find this info? > > Kris Knight of WellAware Life Enhancement Center > Phone: 1-608-ALL-LIFE > welaware at merr.com > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > CitizensTruth mailing list > CitizensTruth at six.pairlist.net > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/citizenstruth > website: http://citizenstruth.info From dimension04 at sbcglobal.net Mon Jan 12 04:18:46 2009 From: dimension04 at sbcglobal.net (Connie Smith) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 03:18:46 -0600 Subject: [CitizensTruth] More questionable characters-Zbigniew, Israel, etc. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I haven't adequately looked into it, but I have at times wondered if Brzezinski is misperceived. I remember being flabbergasted one time in an interview where he sounded like a 9/11 Truther, sounding the alarm -- leaving the impression that his "Grand Chessboard" book was not "what we must do" -- like the aggression of PNAC -- but instead, that is just what IS going on -- and that is (what we also believe) exactly what's wrong! (???) Also, he was Jimmy Carter's adviser, and it's hard to find a more authentically humanitarian activist than Carter -- who even dares to openly and frequently DIS Israel. As for Afghanistan -- I remember the women's movement (despite being anti-war) being relieved that the U.S. was going in there, which would put down the Taliban, and therefore put a stop to their brutality towards all females. But of course, the Taliban have thrived under Bush. Does Obama have an anti-Taliban-brutality motive -- in other words, an authentic human rights motive -- for focusing on Afghanistan? As for Obama and Israel http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2008/12/29 The link leads off with "Obama aligns with White House..." But what the article CLEARLY states, unlike the headline, is this: "So far, Obama has given no hint on his policy on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, though he has said finding a peace plan would be an early priority of his administration." "Further, on 12/28/08, the Washington Post quoted an unnamed senior Bush administration official saying he thought the Israelis launched the attack because of uncertainty over Obama's policy." I've seen one or two other comments like this. The Israelis apparently have some reasons to doubt blind loyalty from Obama, which has always been US policy. And I remember, pre-election, a number of articles about Jewish Americans being nervous about voting for Obama -- they saw indications he was NOT very pro-Israel. For one thing, there are periodically headlines like this one in the foreign press: "Obama will bring the end of Jewish Domination" http://www.audacityofhypocrisy.com/2008/11/04/greek-newspaper-obama-win-will-bring-%e2%80%9cthe-end-of-jewish-domination%e2%80%9d/ And mainly -- and I am kicking myself because I failed to copy the link -- but here's the info that I DID copy from March, 2008: Barack Obama's military adviser and national campaign co-chairman is Merrill "Tony" McPeak. McPeak is a former chief of staff of the Air Force. McPeak has a long history of criticizing Israel for not going back to the 1967 borders as part of any peace agreement with Arab states. In 1976 McPeak wrote an article for Foreign Affairs magazine questioning Israel's insistence on holding on to the Golan Heights and parts of the West Bank. In recent years McPeak has echoed the Mearsheimer-Walt view that American Middle East policy is being controlled by Jews (Zionists) at the expense of America's interests in the region. In a 2003 interview with the Oregonian, McPeak complained of that the "lack of playbook for getting Israelis and Palestinians together ....We need to get it fixed and only we have the authority with both sides to move them towards that. Everybody knows that." The interviewer then asked McPeak: "So where's the problem? State Dept.? White House?" McPeak replied: "New York City. Miami. We have a large vote there in favor of Israel. And no politician wants to run against it." Translation (as if it's needed): Jews (Zionists) -- who put Israel over every American interest -- control America's policy on the Middle East. McPeak also claims that a combination of Jews and Christian Zionists are manipulating U.S. policy in Iraq in dangerous and radical ways... Guys like McPeak are upset because they think Jews have too much influence. Instead of discussing Hamas and Hezbollah, McPeak returns to his primary target: Christian and Jews who support Israel...In other words, American policy is the product of "religious Jews and neocons" who in McPeak's mind are just as much to blame for a lack of peace in the Middle East as are Hamas and Hezbollah." Last I checked, Obama still has McPeak on board as military adviser. There is ample evidence, I'd say, that Obama is not as pro-Israel as is often conveyed. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Fobes " To: "Connie Smith " ; "Robin Migalla " ; "Truth Group (E-mail) " Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 12:48 PM Subject: RE: [CitizensTruth] More questionable characters What is most concerning to me is Obama's foreign policy. Zbig Brzenski is a dangerous fellow, defining the term 'hawkish' and very war hungry. Obama promises to enhance the 'good war' in Afghanistan by tens of thousands of troops and re-depolying troops from Iraq to Afghanistan. These promises are not humanitarian. There is no 'good war', especially the illegal war of agression that we engaged in Afghanistan. I don't want to engage in anger and defensiveness either in talking about Obama, but these things shouldn't be ignored. This justification is under the guise of the so-called War on Terror, which we KNOW is based on a lie that is 9/11. A more accurate decription is the War OF Terror, including ther biggest domestic spying program in history that Obama, unfortunately, is inheriting, not to mention the policy of torture and the Bush doctrine of 'taking the fight to the terrorists'. Obama's recent FISA vote is concerning. The promise to estabish tens of thousands of domestic troops is concerning. His past loyalties to Israel and AIPAC is concerning, though I read an article yesterday in the Guardian saying the Obama's transition team is saying that they will be ready to talk to Hamas on a low-level diplomacy level. While I am grateful for the change from Bush, anything would have been better. Obama has his plate full (overly full!). I'm encouaged by some of his words, but not most of his words about foreign policy. His actions will be interesting. -Rich -----Original Message----- From: Connie Smith Sent: 1/11/2009 5:51:28 PM To: Robin Migalla , Truth Group (E-mail) Subject: Re: [CitizensTruth] More questionable characters I've lost track of it now -- I didn't archive it because I thought it was common knowledge anyway -- it being a commentary by Obama about the need to create jobs "from the bottom up, not from the top down" -- in other words, priority given to local business-building, not global. I still think he's playing it safe with APPEARING to be no threat to the powers-that-be, initially, easing his way into power until he can (almost safely) be who he really is -- possibly one of the greatest humanitarians we will ever know. Here's someone he's appointed that's being lauded as a "brilliant pick." Being a constitutional law professor -- gosh, we finally have a politician who actually KNOWS the Constitution and cares about it!! -- I think this sort of appt. shows Obama's true colors. by Frank Rich: "One of the sharpest appointments yet made by the incoming president may support decisive action: Dawn Johnsen, a law professor and former Clinton administration official who last week was chosen to run the Office of Legal Counsel in the Department of Justice. "This is the same office where the Bush apparatchik John Yoo produced his infamous memos justifying torture. Johnsen is a fierce critic of such constitutional abuses. In articles for Slate last year, she wondered 'where is the outrage, the public outcry' over a government that has acted lawlessly and that 'does not respect the legal and moral bounds of human decency.' She asked, 'How do we save our country's honor, and our own?' "As Johnsen wrote last March, we must also 'resist Bush administration efforts to hide evidence of its wrongdoing through demands for retroactive immunity, its assertions of state privilege -- and the implausible claims that openness will empower terrorists.' " http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/11/opinion/11rich.html?_r=1&th&emc=th ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Migalla" To: "Truth Group (E-mail)" Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 9:52 AM Subject: [CitizensTruth] More questionable characters > Happy Sunday Everyone, > > Here's a new site I've just been turned onto that seems like it might be > another lightworker among us... > > http://www.small-mart.org/ > > Michael Shuman's Blog > Ideas for Obamanomics: Post-Meltdown Thoughts (Part II) > > Posted on November 25, 2008 > > Many of you were probably dancing in the streets on election night. I > was - > even though I identify myself as an independent. That the country will > finally enjoy a leader who actually cares about ideas, who speaks > grammatical English, who believes in science more than ideology, who > doesn't see ecological or women's rights as liberal conspiracies, who > exudes discipline, confidence, and charisma, who sincerely cares about the > have-nots in society, and who won't always resort to war as the answer to > every national security problem is a huge relief. > > But beware. Or, more precisely, be wary. Two weeks before the election, a > Sunday talk show featured a debate between representatives of each > campaign: Senator Evan Bayh (D-Indiana) representing Barack Obama versus > Senator John Kyl (R-Arizona) representing John McCain. When the debate > turned to which candidate would improve the nation's economic > competitiveness, the two senators agreed that the goal was to attract more > global corporations and spent the rest of their time quibbling over the > best means of doing so. The role of small business was relegated to Joe > the > Plumber. > > Obama's Big Thinking > President-elect Obama has surrounded himself with the visionary captains > of > global capitalism - those who believe that "kinder, gentler" free trade > and > free finance, qualified with corporate responsibility, will save our > fast-sinking economy. Obama's chief economic advisor during the campaign, > Jason Furman, is best known for a paper arguing that Wal-Mart, because it > provides cheap goods for all, is one of the most progressive corporations > in America. Robert Reich made his career in a series of arguments in early > issues of The American Prospect suggesting (against Laura Tyson, another > Obama advisor) that ownership of business generally - let alone local > ownership - no longer mattered. And as John McCain fairly observed, > candidate Obama has surrounded himself with experts who made awful calls > over the past decade about relaxing standards for low-income housing loans > and deregulating Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, all of which contributed to > the current financial mess. > > What's most worrisome is that no one on the Obama A-Team understands that > the key to revitalizing the economy and to fixing the financial crisis is > nurturing and expanding locally owned business. But at the B- and C-Team > levels there is enormous sympathy for the views of us locavores. So what > should they be doing? (Full article http://www.small-mart.org/obamanomics) > > Color me really grateful for the internet, > Robin > _______________________________________________ > CitizensTruth mailing list > CitizensTruth at six.pairlist.net > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/citizenstruth > website: http://citizenstruth.info _______________________________________________ CitizensTruth mailing list CitizensTruth at six.pairlist.net http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/citizenstruth website: http://citizenstruth.info From geri at thetwofacesofmoney.com Mon Jan 12 12:03:12 2009 From: geri at thetwofacesofmoney.com (Geri Perry) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 11:03:12 -0600 Subject: [CitizensTruth] A true tale of how the bankers control politicians, and what happens if pols refuse to play Message-ID: <496B77D0.9060000@thetwofacesofmoney.com> Below is a link to a recent article written by Dennis Kucinich, about his epic battle with the big, elite bankers when he was boy mayor of Cleveland. This excellent article provides important insight into why pols can behave as they do, and how we citizens tend to be pacified by hanging the first scapegoat that the media, together with affiliated allies and power mongers, trots out, rather than REALLY getting to the root and the truth. It is worth noting also, that Cleveland is currently particularly hard hit by the latest "economic downturn" and defaulting mortgages. An interview with a city councilman by Bill Moyers a few months back has the official saying this too was on purpose and orchestrated by the big bankers - who, BTW, have NO relation to the small community banks other than to swallow them up. You might recall that Dennis lost his home, his wife and almost his life, and was run out of Cleveland after the bankers threw the city into bankruptcy. (He was recalled 10 years later by the City Council and given an award for his part in saving Muny Light. We have to ask ourselves, would we be so brave or risk so much in the same situation?) Article: http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20081215_rep_dennis_kucinich_on_his_battle_with_the_banks/ From geri at thetwofacesofmoney.com Mon Jan 12 12:37:17 2009 From: geri at thetwofacesofmoney.com (Geri Perry) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 11:37:17 -0600 Subject: [CitizensTruth] The Money question Message-ID: <496B7FCD.4010000@thetwofacesofmoney.com> Dennis Kucinich broaches Constitutional money creation, and the idea that this could be government's greatest creative opportunity: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AR2EtMteHCg&feature=channel_page For those who still believe gold is money - OR, that our current money is not debt/money created by banks with interest charged on top - please visit the What is Money and the Quotes on Gold pages of my website, which I have been adding to as I get time: http://www.thetwofacesofmoney.com/index.php/Site/WhatIsMoney From richardfobes at hotmail.com Tue Jan 13 00:03:37 2009 From: richardfobes at hotmail.com (Richard Fobes) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 23:03:37 -0600 Subject: [CitizensTruth] More questionable characters-Zbigniew, Israel, etc. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "I remember the women's movement (despite being anti-war) being relieved that the U.S. was going in there, which would put down the Taliban, and therefore put a stop to their brutality towards all females.....Does Obama have an anti-Taliban-brutality motive -- in other words, an authentic human rights motive -- for focusing on Afghanistan?" Yes, that would be nice. But even an anti-Taliban-brutality motive does NOT justify what the U.S. has done in Afghanistan, nor does it justify what Obama has promised he is going to do by increasing the presence of our military by tens of thousands, which will ultimately result in the slaughter of thousands more innocents. I don't believe "bringing" (forcing) democracy down a country's throat with a gun and murdering thousands of innocent civilians (women and children mostly) justifies the war in Afghanistan. I don't know of one women that I've worked with or come across in anti-war or 9/11 Truth activism that said they were happy that we brought a war to Afghanistan, but that's just been my experience. According to Obama in his speech to the Chicago Council on Foreign Relations last April, his motives are to continue the so-called 'War on Terror' and continue our expansion of imperialistic wars of aggression: ... "The second way America will lead again is by building the first truly 21st century military and showing wisdom in how we deploy it." "...We must maintain the strongest, best-equipped military in the world in order to defeat and deter conventional threats. But while sustaining our technological edge will always be central to our national security, the ability to put boots on the ground will be critical in eliminating the shadowy terrorist networks we now face." ... "But the war in Afghanistan and the ill-advised invasion of Iraq have clearly demonstrated the consequences of underestimating the number of troops required to fight two wars and defend our homeland. That?s why I strongly support the expansion of our ground forces by adding 65,000 soldiers to the Army and 27,000 Marines." ... "The third way America must lead again is by marshalling a global effort to meet a threat that rises above all others in urgency ? securing, destroying, and stopping the spread of weapons of mass destruction." ... "As starting points, the world must prevent Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons and work to eliminate North Korea?s nuclear weapons program. If America does not lead, these two nations could trigger regional arms races that could accelerate nuclear proliferation on a global scale and create dangerous nuclear flashpoints. In pursuit of this goal, we must never take the military option off the table. But our first line of offense here must be sustained, direct and aggressive diplomacy." ... "These are the ways we will answer the challenge that arrived on our shores that September morning more than five years ago. A 21st century military to stay on the offense, from Djibouti to Kandahar. Global efforts to keep the world?s deadliest weapons out of the world?s most dangerous hands. Stronger alliances to share information, pool resources, and break up terrorist networks that operate in more than eighty countries. And a stronger push to defeat the terrorists? message of hate with an agenda for hope around the world." Yesterday, Barack Obama suggested he's not likely to actively pursue criminal charges against national security officials who were directly involved in unlawful interrogations or wire-tapping, and said it would be difficult to quickly close down Guantanamo Bay. On the question of prosecuting crimes that may have been committed during the Bush presidency in the course of the war on terror, Obama continued the theme of "looking forward as opposed to backwards" he took on the campaign trail. Asked specifically about the idea of a "9/11 commission with Independence subpoena power" to look at torture and warrantless wiretapping during the Bush years, Obama said that "We have not made final decisions, but my instinct is for us to focus on how do we make sure that moving forward we are doing the right thing. That doesn't mean that if somebody has blatantly broken the law, that they are above the law. But my orientation's going to be to move forward." So, in other words, he is sending the message that high level officials can do whatever they want to do and never have to worry about being accountable. Torture is OK. Lying about going to war is OK. Warrant-less wiretapping on us is OK. Wars for Empire are OK. Knowingly murdering Americans in a false-flag operation is OK. Scaring the American public to death to justify the Bush program is OK. Zbigniew Brzezinski - Some of his credentials include: Trustee and founder of the Trilateral CommissionPast member, Board of Directors, The Council on Foreign RelationsAttendee and presenter at several Bilderberg conferences Some quotes from 'Grand Chessboard': "Ever since the continents started interacting politically, some five hundred years ago, Eurasia has been the center of world power."- (p. xiii) "It is imperative that no Eurasian challenger emerges capable of dominating Eurasia and thus of also challenging America. The formulation of a comprehensive and integrated Eurasian geostrategy is therefore the purpose of this book.? (p. xiv) "How America 'manages' Eurasia is critical. A power that dominates Eurasia would control two of the world's three most advanced and economically productive regions. A mere glance at the map also suggests that control over Eurasia would almost automatically entail Africa's subordination, rendering the Western Hemisphere and Oceania geopolitically peripheral to the world's central continent. About 75 per cent of the world's people live in Eurasia, and most of the world's physical wealth is there as well, both in its enterprises and underneath its soil. Eurasia accounts for about three-fourths of the world's known energy resources." (p.31) ?Never before has a populist democracy attained international supremacy. But the pursuit of power is not a goal that commands popular passion, except in conditions of a sudden threat or challenge to the public's sense of domestic well-being. The economic self-denial (that is, defense spending) and the human sacrifice (casualties, even among professional soldiers) required in the effort are uncongenial to democratic instincts. Democracy is inimical to imperial mobilization." (p.35)...And there are several other telling quotes here > From: dimension04 at sbcglobal.net > To: richardfobes at hotmail.com; rmigalla at earthlink.net; citizenstruth at six.pairlist.net > Subject: Re: [CitizensTruth] More questionable characters-Zbigniew, Israel, etc. > Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 03:18:46 -0600 > > > > I haven't adequately looked into it, but I have at times wondered if > Brzezinski is misperceived. I remember being flabbergasted one time in an > interview where he sounded like a 9/11 Truther, sounding the alarm -- > leaving the impression that his "Grand Chessboard" book was not "what we > must do" -- like the aggression of PNAC -- but instead, that is just what IS > going on -- and that is (what we also believe) exactly what's wrong! (???) > > Also, he was Jimmy Carter's adviser, and it's hard to find a more > authentically humanitarian activist than Carter -- who even dares to openly > and frequently DIS Israel. > > As for Afghanistan -- I remember the women's movement (despite being > anti-war) being relieved that the U.S. was going in there, which would put > down the Taliban, and therefore put a stop to their brutality towards all > females. But of course, the Taliban have thrived under Bush. Does Obama > have an anti-Taliban-brutality motive -- in other words, an authentic human > rights motive -- for focusing on Afghanistan? > > As for Obama and Israel > http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2008/12/29 > > The link leads off with "Obama aligns with White House..." But what the > article CLEARLY states, unlike the headline, is this: > > "So far, Obama has given no hint on his policy on the Israeli-Palestinian > conflict, though he has said finding a peace plan would be an early priority > of his administration." > > "Further, on 12/28/08, the Washington Post quoted an unnamed senior Bush > administration official saying he thought the Israelis launched the attack > because of uncertainty over Obama's policy." > > I've seen one or two other comments like this. The Israelis apparently have > some reasons to doubt blind loyalty from Obama, which has always been US > policy. And I remember, pre-election, a number of articles about Jewish > Americans being nervous about voting for Obama -- they saw indications he > was NOT very pro-Israel. > > For one thing, there are periodically headlines like this one in the foreign > press: "Obama will bring the end of Jewish Domination" > http://www.audacityofhypocrisy.com/2008/11/04/greek-newspaper-obama-win-will-bring-%e2%80%9cthe-end-of-jewish-domination%e2%80%9d/ > > And mainly -- and I am kicking myself because I failed to copy the link -- > but here's the info that I DID copy from March, 2008: > > Barack Obama's military adviser and national campaign co-chairman is Merrill > "Tony" McPeak. McPeak is a former chief of staff of the Air Force. > > McPeak has a long history of criticizing Israel for not going back to the > 1967 borders as part of any peace agreement with Arab states. In 1976 McPeak > wrote an article for Foreign Affairs magazine questioning Israel's > insistence on holding on to the Golan Heights and parts of the West Bank. > > In recent years McPeak has echoed the Mearsheimer-Walt view that American > Middle East policy is being controlled by Jews (Zionists) at the expense of > America's interests in the region. In a 2003 interview with the Oregonian, > McPeak complained of that the "lack of playbook for getting Israelis and > Palestinians together ....We need to get it fixed and only we have the > authority with both sides to move them towards that. Everybody knows that." > > The interviewer then asked McPeak: "So where's the problem? State Dept.? > White House?" > > McPeak replied: "New York City. Miami. We have a large vote there in favor > of Israel. And no politician wants to run against it." > > Translation (as if it's needed): Jews (Zionists) -- who put Israel over > every American interest -- control America's policy on the Middle East. > > McPeak also claims that a combination of Jews and Christian Zionists are > manipulating U.S. policy in Iraq in dangerous and radical ways... Guys like > McPeak are upset because they think Jews have too much influence. > > Instead of discussing Hamas and Hezbollah, McPeak returns to his primary > target: Christian and Jews who support Israel...In other words, American > policy is the product of "religious Jews and neocons" who in McPeak's mind > are just as much to blame for a lack of peace in the Middle East as are > Hamas and Hezbollah." > > Last I checked, Obama still has McPeak on board as military adviser. There > is ample evidence, I'd say, that Obama is not as pro-Israel as is often > conveyed. > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Richard Fobes " > To: "Connie Smith " ; "Robin Migalla " > ; "Truth Group (E-mail) " > > Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 12:48 PM > Subject: RE: [CitizensTruth] More questionable characters > > > What is most concerning to me is Obama's foreign policy. Zbig Brzenski is a > dangerous fellow, defining the term 'hawkish' and very war hungry. Obama > promises to enhance the 'good war' in Afghanistan by tens of thousands of > troops and re-depolying troops from Iraq to Afghanistan. These promises are > not humanitarian. There is no 'good war', especially the illegal war of > agression that we engaged in Afghanistan. I don't want to engage in anger > and defensiveness either in talking about Obama, but these things shouldn't > be ignored. > > This justification is under the guise of the so-called War on Terror, which > we KNOW is based on a lie that is 9/11. A more accurate decription is the > War OF Terror, including ther biggest domestic spying program in history > that Obama, unfortunately, is inheriting, not to mention the policy of > torture and the Bush doctrine of 'taking the fight to the terrorists'. > > Obama's recent FISA vote is concerning. > > > The promise to estabish tens of thousands of domestic troops is concerning. > His past loyalties to Israel and AIPAC is concerning, though I read an > article yesterday in the Guardian saying the Obama's transition team is > saying that they will be ready to talk to Hamas on a low-level diplomacy > level. > > > While I am grateful for the change from Bush, anything would have been > better. > > > Obama has his plate full (overly full!). I'm encouaged by some of his > words, but not most of his words about foreign policy. His actions will be > interesting. > > > -Rich > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Connie Smith > Sent: 1/11/2009 5:51:28 PM > To: Robin Migalla , Truth Group (E-mail) > > Subject: Re: [CitizensTruth] More questionable characters > > > > > I've lost track of it now -- I didn't archive it because I thought it was > common knowledge anyway -- it being a commentary by Obama about the need to > create jobs "from the bottom up, not from the top down" -- in other words, > priority given to local business-building, not global. > > I still think he's playing it safe with APPEARING to be no threat to the > powers-that-be, initially, easing his way into power until he can (almost > safely) be who he really is -- possibly one of the greatest humanitarians we > will ever know. > > Here's someone he's appointed that's being lauded as a "brilliant pick." > Being a constitutional law professor -- gosh, we finally have a politician > who actually KNOWS the Constitution and cares about it!! -- I think this > sort of appt. shows Obama's true colors. > > by Frank Rich: "One of the sharpest appointments yet made by the incoming > president may support decisive action: Dawn Johnsen, a law professor and > former Clinton administration official who last week was chosen to run the > Office of Legal Counsel in the Department of Justice. > > "This is the same office where the Bush apparatchik John Yoo produced his > infamous memos justifying torture. Johnsen is a fierce critic of such > constitutional abuses. In articles for Slate last year, she wondered 'where > is the outrage, the public outcry' over a government that has acted > lawlessly and that 'does not respect the legal and moral bounds of human > decency.' She asked, 'How do we save our country's honor, and our own?' > > "As Johnsen wrote last March, we must also 'resist Bush administration > efforts to hide evidence of its wrongdoing through demands for retroactive > immunity, its assertions of state privilege -- and the implausible claims > that openness will empower terrorists.' " > > http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/11/opinion/11rich.html?_r=1&th&emc=th > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robin Migalla" > To: "Truth Group (E-mail)" > Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 9:52 AM > Subject: [CitizensTruth] More questionable characters > > > > Happy Sunday Everyone, > > > > Here's a new site I've just been turned onto that seems like it might be > > another lightworker among us... > > > > http://www.small-mart.org/ > > > > Michael Shuman's Blog > > Ideas for Obamanomics: Post-Meltdown Thoughts (Part II) > > > > Posted on November 25, 2008 > > > > Many of you were probably dancing in the streets on election night. I > > was - > > even though I identify myself as an independent. That the country will > > finally enjoy a leader who actually cares about ideas, who speaks > > grammatical English, who believes in science more than ideology, who > > doesn't see ecological or women's rights as liberal conspiracies, who > > exudes discipline, confidence, and charisma, who sincerely cares about the > > have-nots in society, and who won't always resort to war as the answer to > > every national security problem is a huge relief. > > > > But beware. Or, more precisely, be wary. Two weeks before the election, a > > Sunday talk show featured a debate between representatives of each > > campaign: Senator Evan Bayh (D-Indiana) representing Barack Obama versus > > Senator John Kyl (R-Arizona) representing John McCain. When the debate > > turned to which candidate would improve the nation's economic > > competitiveness, the two senators agreed that the goal was to attract more > > global corporations and spent the rest of their time quibbling over the > > best means of doing so. The role of small business was relegated to Joe > > the > > Plumber. > > > > Obama's Big Thinking > > President-elect Obama has surrounded himself with the visionary captains > > of > > global capitalism - those who believe that "kinder, gentler" free trade > > and > > free finance, qualified with corporate responsibility, will save our > > fast-sinking economy. Obama's chief economic advisor during the campaign, > > Jason Furman, is best known for a paper arguing that Wal-Mart, because it > > provides cheap goods for all, is one of the most progressive corporations > > in America. Robert Reich made his career in a series of arguments in early > > issues of The American Prospect suggesting (against Laura Tyson, another > > Obama advisor) that ownership of business generally - let alone local > > ownership - no longer mattered. And as John McCain fairly observed, > > candidate Obama has surrounded himself with experts who made awful calls > > over the past decade about relaxing standards for low-income housing loans > > and deregulating Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, all of which contributed to > > the current financial mess. > > > > What's most worrisome is that no one on the Obama A-Team understands that > > the key to revitalizing the economy and to fixing the financial crisis is > > nurturing and expanding locally owned business. But at the B- and C-Team > > levels there is enormous sympathy for the views of us locavores. So what > > should they be doing? (Full article http://www.small-mart.org/obamanomics) > > > > Color me really grateful for the internet, > > Robin > > _______________________________________________ > > CitizensTruth mailing list > > CitizensTruth at six.pairlist.net > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/citizenstruth > > website: http://citizenstruth.info > > _______________________________________________ > CitizensTruth mailing list > CitizensTruth at six.pairlist.net > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/citizenstruth > website: http://citizenstruth.info > _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live? Hotmail?: Chat. Store. Share. Do more with mail. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_hm_justgotbetter_explore_012009 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From edward_rynearson at yahoo.com Tue Jan 13 00:45:40 2009 From: edward_rynearson at yahoo.com (Edward Rynearson) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 21:45:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [CitizensTruth] Two YouTubes and a link Message-ID: <833984.83893.qm@web30001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Obama urges us to heave forward http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ue8WzKuGCwU New World Order meets the Constant Gardner http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mDi49Qj1xk I just added 2008 David Ray Griffin radio interviews: http://davidraygriffin.com/radio Enjoy! From hal at drxyzzy.org Tue Jan 13 07:58:53 2009 From: hal at drxyzzy.org (Hal Snyder) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 06:58:53 -0600 Subject: [CitizensTruth] Question On Change.GOV In-Reply-To: References: <011801c96d5a$47119a70$dffb96d8@compaquser> <495FA247.2070705@mailbag.com> Message-ID: <6A83C809-0CBC-4F39-9C66-A286E2BFE72D@drxyzzy.org> See also the following, which now shows a 40 point up vote: Investigation into the happenings of 9/11 Mr. Obama, I know just as well as you, and any other logical person caught up in this silly game that the events of September 11th 2001 were not as they seemed. Inside job or not it is far beyond obvious that lies and deception crowd one of the most blunt and high scale murder in our nations history. What say you? On Jan 4, 2009, at 10:11 PM, Richard Fobes wrote: > There is also a question on this website that reads: > > "Given the scientific & physical evidence and eyewitness testimony > that all contradict the reports put out by the 9/11 Commission, > NIST, FEMA, NORAD & the FAA, how do you plan to provide us with an > accurate account of what actually happened on 9/11?" > > You can click here then type in "given the scientific and physical > evidence" in 'Search Questions' area. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dimension04 at sbcglobal.net Tue Jan 13 10:13:25 2009 From: dimension04 at sbcglobal.net (Connie Smith) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 09:13:25 -0600 Subject: [CitizensTruth] More questionable characters-Zbigniew, Israel, etc. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks for doing all this work on these subjects. I'm sorry I can't spend that much time myself, so maybe I am inadequately informed. However, Jay Leno's wife was particularly outspoken on the idea that perhaps U.S. forces could stop the Taliban's brutality. Note: not "bringing/forcing democracy down a country's throat" (that IS a despicable and ludicrous idea, like Bush in Iraq) -- but assisting with stopping a form of extreme international "domestic violence." It IS debatable whether any other country has the RIGHT to do that, but -- "since we had to go in there anyway to get bin Laden" -- yeah, yeah, yeah) -- I remember "eliminating the Taliban" as being the hope. It was never imagined that wedding parties and other innocent lives would be involved -- it was just "going after the bad guys." Too simplistic and idealistic and misguided, as it turned out. (And too sinister in what's really all behind it.) I would hope that Obama believes we've made an unspeakable mess there, and we need to clean it up -- hence more troops, but with a different focus. The skills of military organization CAN BE used to help humanity -- it just depends on who's giving the orders... ...as from your Obama quote below: "the first truly 21st century military and showing wisdom in how we deploy it." Wisdom is what I'm talking about. And what's wrong with his statement about "securing, destroying, and stopping the spread of weapons of mass destruction." That IS going on, it needs monitoring, it was Valerie Plame's operation before Bush et al shut it down by leaking her name. I understand they were pissed that her effectiveness stopped the transporting and planting of WMD in Iraq, which WOULD HAVE "justified" our invasion. And I think it was masterful of Obama to state an idea like this of reassurance to the American sheeple: "we must never take the military option off the table. But our first line of offense here must be sustained, direct and aggressive diplomacy." I think he's saying, "in other words, you believe in war -- and I have to take that into account as I run for the presidency -- but my intention is to devotedly pursue peace. He goes on to propound "keeping the deadliest weapons out of the world's most dangerous hands" -- yes, please! is he implying he knows who the deadliest hands really are? -- "and to form alliances to change of message of hate to an agenda of hope." Looking at his background and his wife who knows him better than anybody, he means that, ya know. She would've split long ago -- or never gotten involved -- if he were phony in any way. Fallible, sure. But not phony. As for not pursuing criminal charges, even Henry Waxman who is the hound who has rounded up all the criminal details on Bush/Cheney, says we probably can't pursue them because of urgent priorities. However, Obama's got somebody on board now just in case it becomes possible. From Frank Rich: One of the sharpest appointments yet made by the incoming president may support decisive action: Dawn Johnsen, a law professor and former Clinton administration official who last week was chosen to run the Office of Legal Counsel in the Department of Justice. This is the same office where the Bush apparatchik John Yoo produced his infamous memos justifying torture. Johnsen is a fierce critic of such constitutional abuses. In articles for Slate last year, she wondered ?where is the outrage, the public outcry? over a government that has acted lawlessly and that ?does not respect the legal and moral bounds of human decency.? She asked, ?How do we save our country?s honor, and our own?? As Johnsen wrote last March, we must also ?resist Bush administration efforts to hide evidence of its wrongdoing through demands for retroactive immunity, assertions of state privilege, and implausible claims that openness will empower terrorists.? http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/11/opinion/11rich.html?_r=1&th&emc=th As for Zbigniew -- "a Eurasia geostrategy is the purpose of this book" -- again, I can only say I was flabbergasted one time, maybe about 2 years ago, when he spoke about all that's wrong with this. He sounded like a whistleblower, not an advocate. I remain puzzled. Perhaps Carter and Obama just practice the cliche' -- "keep your friends close and your enemies even closer" -- in order to pick their brains and defeat their agenda. No more time. Thanks for input. Connie ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Fobes To: Citizen's.Truth Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 11:03 PM Subject: Re: [CitizensTruth] More questionable characters-Zbigniew, Israel, etc. "I remember the women's movement (despite being anti-war) being relieved that the U.S. was going in there, which would put down the Taliban, and therefore put a stop to their brutality towards all females.....Does Obama have an anti-Taliban-brutality motive -- in other words, an authentic human rights motive -- for focusing on Afghanistan?" Yes, that would be nice. But even an anti-Taliban-brutality motive does NOT justify what the U.S. has done in Afghanistan, nor does it justify what Obama has promised he is going to do by increasing the presence of our military by tens of thousands, which will ultimately result in the slaughter of thousands more innocents. I don't believe "bringing" (forcing) democracy down a country's throat with a gun and murdering thousands of innocent civilians (women and children mostly) justifies the war in Afghanistan. I don't know of one women that I've worked with or come across in anti-war or 9/11 Truth activism that said they were happy that we brought a war to Afghanistan, but that's just been my experience. According to Obama in his speech to the Chicago Council on Foreign Relations last April, his motives are to continue the so-called 'War on Terror' and continue our expansion of imperialistic wars of aggression: ... "The second way America will lead again is by building the first truly 21st century military and showing wisdom in how we deploy it." "...We must maintain the strongest, best-equipped military in the world in order to defeat and deter conventional threats. But while sustaining our technological edge will always be central to our national security, the ability to put boots on the ground will be critical in eliminating the shadowy terrorist networks we now face." ... "But the war in Afghanistan and the ill-advised invasion of Iraq have clearly demonstrated the consequences of underestimating the number of troops required to fight two wars and defend our homeland. That?s why I strongly support the expansion of our ground forces by adding 65,000 soldiers to the Army and 27,000 Marines." ... "The third way America must lead again is by marshalling a global effort to meet a threat that rises above all others in urgency ? securing, destroying, and stopping the spread of weapons of mass destruction." ... "As starting points, the world must prevent Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons and work to eliminate North Korea?s nuclear weapons program. If America does not lead, these two nations could trigger regional arms races that could accelerate nuclear proliferation on a global scale and create dangerous nuclear flashpoints. In pursuit of this goal, we must never take the military option off the table. But our first line of offense here must be sustained, direct and aggressive diplomacy." ... "These are the ways we will answer the challenge that arrived on our shores that September morning more than five years ago. A 21st century military to stay on the offense, from Djibouti to Kandahar. Global efforts to keep the world?s deadliest weapons out of the world?s most dangerous hands. Stronger alliances to share information, pool resources, and break up terrorist networks that operate in more than eighty countries. And a stronger push to defeat the terrorists? message of hate with an agenda for hope around the world." Yesterday, Barack Obama suggested he's not likely to actively pursue criminal charges against national security officials who were directly involved in unlawful interrogations or wire-tapping, and said it would be difficult to quickly close down Guantanamo Bay. On the question of prosecuting crimes that may have been committed during the Bush presidency in the course of the war on terror, Obama continued the theme of "looking forward as opposed to backwards" he took on the campaign trail. Asked specifically about the idea of a "9/11 commission with Independence subpoena power" to look at torture and warrantless wiretapping during the Bush years, Obama said that "We have not made final decisions, but my instinct is for us to focus on how do we make sure that moving forward we are doing the right thing. That doesn't mean that if somebody has blatantly broken the law, that they are above the law. But my orientation's going to be to move forward." So, in other words, he is sending the message that high level officials can do whatever they want to do and never have to worry about being accountable. Torture is OK. Lying about going to war is OK. Warrant-less wiretapping on us is OK. Wars for Empire are OK. Knowingly murdering Americans in a false-flag operation is OK. Scaring the American public to death to justify the Bush program is OK. Zbigniew Brzezinski - Some of his credentials include: a.. Trustee and founder of the Trilateral Commission b.. Past member, Board of Directors, The Council on Foreign Relations c.. Attendee and presenter at several Bilderberg conferences Some quotes from 'Grand Chessboard': "Ever since the continents started interacting politically, some five hundred years ago, Eurasia has been the center of world power."- (p. xiii) "It is imperative that no Eurasian challenger emerges capable of dominating Eurasia and thus of also challenging America. The formulation of a comprehensive and integrated Eurasian geostrategy is therefore the purpose of this book.? (p. xiv) "How America 'manages' Eurasia is critical. A power that dominates Eurasia would control two of the world's three most advanced and economically productive regions. A mere glance at the map also suggests that control over Eurasia would almost automatically entail Africa's subordination, rendering the Western Hemisphere and Oceania geopolitically peripheral to the world's central continent. About 75 per cent of the world's people live in Eurasia, and most of the world's physical wealth is there as well, both in its enterprises and underneath its soil. Eurasia accounts for about three-fourths of the world's known energy resources." (p.31) ?Never before has a populist democracy attained international supremacy. But the pursuit of power is not a goal that commands popular passion, except in conditions of a sudden threat or challenge to the public's sense of domestic well-being. The economic self-denial (that is, defense spending) and the human sacrifice (casualties, even among professional soldiers) required in the effort are uncongenial to democratic instincts. Democracy is inimical to imperial mobilization." (p.35) ...And there are several other telling quotes here > From: dimension04 at sbcglobal.net > To: richardfobes at hotmail.com; rmigalla at earthlink.net; citizenstruth at six.pairlist.net > Subject: Re: [CitizensTruth] More questionable characters-Zbigniew, Israel, etc. > Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 03:18:46 -0600 > > > > I haven't adequately looked into it, but I have at times wondered if > Brzezinski is misperceived. I remember being flabbergasted one time in an > interview where he sounded like a 9/11 Truther, sounding the alarm -- > leaving the impression that his "Grand Chessboard" book was not "what we > must do" -- like the aggression of PNAC -- but instead, that is just what IS > going on -- and that is (what we also believe) exactly what's wrong! (???) > > Also, he was Jimmy Carter's adviser, and it's hard to find a more > authentically humanitarian activist than Carter -- who even dares to openly > and frequently DIS Israel. > > As for Afghanistan -- I remember the women's movement (despite being > anti-war) being relieved that the U.S. was going in there, which would put > down the Taliban, and therefore put a stop to their brutality towards all > females. But of course, the Taliban have thrived under Bush. Does Obama > have an anti-Taliban-brutality motive -- in other words, an authentic human > rights motive -- for focusing on Afghanistan? > > As for Obama and Israel > http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2008/12/29 > > The link leads off with "Obama aligns with White House..." But what the > article CLEARLY states, unlike the headline, is this: > > "So far, Obama has given no hint on his policy on the Israeli-Palestinian > conflict, though he has said finding a peace plan would be an early priority > of his administration." > > "Further, on 12/28/08, the Washington Post quoted an unnamed senior Bush > administration official saying he thought the Israelis launched the attack > because of uncertainty over Obama's policy." > > I've seen one or two other comments like this. The Israelis apparently have > some reasons to doubt blind loyalty from Obama, which has always been US > policy. And I remember, pre-election, a number of articles about Jewish > Americans being nervous about voting for Obama -- they saw indications he > was NOT very pro-Israel. > > For one thing, there are periodically headlines like this one in the foreign > press: "Obama will bring the end of Jewish Domination" > http://www.audacityofhypocrisy.com/2008/11/04/greek-newspaper-obama-win-will-bring-%e2%80%9cthe-end-of-jewish-domination%e2%80%9d/ > > And mainly -- and I am kicking myself because I failed to copy the link -- > but here's the info that I DID copy from March, 2008: > > Barack Obama's military adviser and national campaign co-chairman is Merrill > "Tony" McPeak. McPeak is a former chief of staff of the Air Force. > > McPeak has a long history of criticizing Israel for not going back to the > 1967 borders as part of any peace agreement with Arab states. In 1976 McPeak > wrote an article for Foreign Affairs magazine questioning Israel's > insistence on holding on to the Golan Heights and parts of the West Bank. > > In recent years McPeak has echoed the Mearsheimer-Walt view that American > Middle East policy is being controlled by Jews (Zionists) at the expense of > America's interests in the region. In a 2003 interview with the Oregonian, > McPeak complained of that the "lack of playbook for getting Israelis and > Palestinians together ....We need to get it fixed and only we have the > authority with both sides to move them towards that. Everybody knows that." > > The interviewer then asked McPeak: "So where's the problem? State Dept.? > White House?" > > McPeak replied: "New York City. Miami. We have a large vote there in favor > of Israel. And no politician wants to run against it." > > Translation (as if it's needed): Jews (Zionists) -- who put Israel over > every American interest -- control America's policy on the Middle East. > > McPeak also claims that a combination of Jews and Christian Zionists are > manipulating U.S. policy in Iraq in dangerous and radical ways... Guys like > McPeak are upset because they think Jews have too much influence. > > Instead of discussing Hamas and Hezbollah, McPeak returns to his primary > target: Christian and Jews who support Israel...In other words, American > policy is the product of "religious Jews and neocons" who in McPeak's mind > are just as much to blame for a lack of peace in the Middle East as are > Hamas and Hezbollah." > > Last I checked, Obama still has McPeak on board as military adviser. There > is ample evidence, I'd say, that Obama is not as pro-Israel as is often > conveyed. > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Richard Fobes " > To: "Connie Smith " ; "Robin Migalla " > ; "Truth Group (E-mail) " > > Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 12:48 PM > Subject: RE: [CitizensTruth] More questionable characters > > > What is most concerning to me is Obama's foreign policy. Zbig Brzenski is a > dangerous fellow, defining the term 'hawkish' and very war hungry. Obama > promises to enhance the 'good war' in Afghanistan by tens of thousands of > troops and re-depolying troops from Iraq to Afghanistan. These promises are > not humanitarian. There is no 'good war', especially the illegal war of > agression that we engaged in Afghanistan. I don't want to engage in anger > and defensiveness either in talking about Obama, but these things shouldn't > be ignored. > > This justification is under the guise of the so-called War on Terror, which > we KNOW is based on a lie that is 9/11. A more accurate decription is the > War OF Terror, including ther biggest domestic spying program in history > that Obama, unfortunately, is inheriting, not to mention the policy of > torture and the Bush doctrine of 'taking the fight to the terrorists'. > > Obama's recent FISA vote is concerning. > > > The promise to estabish tens of thousands of domestic troops is concerning. > His past loyalties to Israel and AIPAC is concerning, though I read an > article yesterday in the Guardian saying the Obama's transition team is > saying that they will be ready to talk to Hamas on a low-level diplomacy > level. > > > While I am grateful for the change from Bush, anything would have been > better. > > > Obama has his plate full (overly full!). I'm encouaged by some of his > words, but not most of his words about foreign policy. His actions will be > interesting. > > > -Rich > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Connie Smith > Sent: 1/11/2009 5:51:28 PM > To: Robin Migalla , Truth Group (E-mail) > > Subject: Re: [CitizensTruth] More questionable characters > > > > > I've lost track of it now -- I didn't archive it because I thought it was > common knowledge anyway -- it being a commentary by Obama about the need to > create jobs "from the bottom up, not from the top down" -- in other words, > priority given to local business-building, not global. > > I still think he's playing it safe with APPEARING to be no threat to the > powers-that-be, initially, easing his way into power until he can (almost > safely) be who he really is -- possibly one of the greatest humanitarians we > will ever know. > > Here's someone he's appointed that's being lauded as a "brilliant pick." > Being a constitutional law professor -- gosh, we finally have a politician > who actually KNOWS the Constitution and cares about it!! -- I think this > sort of appt. shows Obama's true colors. > > by Frank Rich: "One of the sharpest appointments yet made by the incoming > president may support decisive action: Dawn Johnsen, a law professor and > former Clinton administration official who last week was chosen to run the > Office of Legal Counsel in the Department of Justice. > > "This is the same office where the Bush apparatchik John Yoo produced his > infamous memos justifying torture. Johnsen is a fierce critic of such > constitutional abuses. In articles for Slate last year, she wondered 'where > is the outrage, the public outcry' over a government that has acted > lawlessly and that 'does not respect the legal and moral bounds of human > decency.' She asked, 'How do we save our country's honor, and our own?' > > "As Johnsen wrote last March, we must also 'resist Bush administration > efforts to hide evidence of its wrongdoing through demands for retroactive > immunity, its assertions of state privilege -- and the implausible claims > that openness will empower terrorists.' " > > http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/11/opinion/11rich.html?_r=1&th&emc=th > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robin Migalla" > To: "Truth Group (E-mail)" > Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 9:52 AM > Subject: [CitizensTruth] More questionable characters > > > > Happy Sunday Everyone, > > > > Here's a new site I've just been turned onto that seems like it might be > > another lightworker among us... > > > > http://www.small-mart.org/ > > > > Michael Shuman's Blog > > Ideas for Obamanomics: Post-Meltdown Thoughts (Part II) > > > > Posted on November 25, 2008 > > > > Many of you were probably dancing in the streets on election night. I > > was - > > even though I identify myself as an independent. That the country will > > finally enjoy a leader who actually cares about ideas, who speaks > > grammatical English, who believes in science more than ideology, who > > doesn't see ecological or women's rights as liberal conspiracies, who > > exudes discipline, confidence, and charisma, who sincerely cares about the > > have-nots in society, and who won't always resort to war as the answer to > > every national security problem is a huge relief. > > > > But beware. Or, more precisely, be wary. Two weeks before the election, a > > Sunday talk show featured a debate between representatives of each > > campaign: Senator Evan Bayh (D-Indiana) representing Barack Obama versus > > Senator John Kyl (R-Arizona) representing John McCain. When the debate > > turned to which candidate would improve the nation's economic > > competitiveness, the two senators agreed that the goal was to attract more > > global corporations and spent the rest of their time quibbling over the > > best means of doing so. The role of small business was relegated to Joe > > the > > Plumber. > > > > Obama's Big Thinking > > President-elect Obama has surrounded himself with the visionary captains > > of > > global capitalism - those who believe that "kinder, gentler" free trade > > and > > free finance, qualified with corporate responsibility, will save our > > fast-sinking economy. Obama's chief economic advisor during the campaign, > > Jason Furman, is best known for a paper arguing that Wal-Mart, because it > > provides cheap goods for all, is one of the most progressive corporations > > in America. Robert Reich made his career in a series of arguments in early > > issues of The American Prospect suggesting (against Laura Tyson, another > > Obama advisor) that ownership of business generally - let alone local > > ownership - no longer mattered. And as John McCain fairly observed, > > candidate Obama has surrounded himself with experts who made awful calls > > over the past decade about relaxing standards for low-income housing loans > > and deregulating Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, all of which contributed to > > the current financial mess. > > > > What's most worrisome is that no one on the Obama A-Team understands that > > the key to revitalizing the economy and to fixing the financial crisis is > > nurturing and expanding locally owned business. But at the B- and C-Team > > levels there is enormous sympathy for the views of us locavores. So what > > should they be doing? (Full article http://www.small-mart.org/obamanomics) > > > > Color me really grateful for the internet, > > Robin > > _______________________________________________ > > CitizensTruth mailing list > > CitizensTruth at six.pairlist.net > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/citizenstruth > > website: http://citizenstruth.info > > _______________________________________________ > CitizensTruth mailing list > CitizensTruth at six.pairlist.net > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/citizenstruth > website: http://citizenstruth.info > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Windows Live? Hotmail?: Chat. Store. Share. Do more with mail. Check it out. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ CitizensTruth mailing list CitizensTruth at six.pairlist.net http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/citizenstruth website: http://citizenstruth.info -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From richardfobes at hotmail.com Tue Jan 13 14:07:46 2009 From: richardfobes at hotmail.com (Richard Fobes) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 13:07:46 -0600 Subject: [CitizensTruth] More questionable characters-Zbigniew, Israel, etc. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks for engaging in this discussion! I am, by NO MEANS, an expert on Zbig. However, Mr. Founder of the Trilateral Commission, Zbig, is NOT a 9/11 whistleblower, I can assure you of that. He has been confronted on several occassions by 9/11 Truth activists, and he has shunned them away in hate and rage. He IS a war-monger, to be sure. He, like the PNAC boys, needed 9/11 to further his agenda of imperialism with the U.S. in charge, and he got it. Yes, he has criticized Bush and serveral of his policies and decisions, which is good. However, his life-long pursuit of attacking Pakistan and keeping the Soviets and China in check is well documented in Grand Chessboard. I would be willing to bet that when Obama suggested bombing Pakistan last year, that was Zbig talking. And, sure enough, we started bombing Pakistan a few months ago - Zbig and Obama got their wishes. WMDs or not, NOTHING would have justified our illegal war of aggression in Iraq. "but assisting with stopping a form of extreme international 'domestic violence.' " Again, I respectfully disagree, NOTHING can justify our illegal war of aggression in Afghanistan, period. It is/was under the guise of 'getting those shadowy terrorists' as Obama put, and fighting the 'good war' in Afghanistan because we needed to 'get Bin Laden' and 'stop al-Queda.' Eliminating the Taliban was not the idea, is was to ensure the pipelines were put down and secured. The U.S. was ready to go to war in Afghanistan prior to 9/11, the papers were allegedly on Bush's desk! In reality, they had no intention of 'getting Bin Laden' or stopping extreme international domestic violence. Even if they did, I don't think it's debatable that we had 'had the right' to invade their country and 'force democracy' among them, which isn't what happened or what is happening anyway. "I would hope that Obama believes we've made an unspeakable mess there, and we need to clean it up -- hence more troops, but with a different focus." Well, I have a much, much better idea: TROOPS HOME NOW! Not more violence, lost lives, endless war, torture, and trillions spent on our Defense budget. No one has ever been able to 'win' in Afghanistan ever before anyway. Plus, there are no 'winners' in that kind of a war. War is wrong. And what's wrong with his statement about "securing, destroying, and stopping the spread of weapons of mass destruction." That IS going on, it needs monitoring, it was Valerie Plame's operation before Bush et al shut it down by leaking her name. I understand they were pissed that her effectiveness stopped the transporting and planting of WMD in Iraq, which WOULD HAVE "justified" our invasion. I respectfully disagree. What's wrong here is that he is saying that the Bush doctrine is OK - bringing wars of aggression (imperialism) to other countries to secure, stop, and destroy the spread of WMDs. All the while, the U.S. clearly has the most WMDs, and the U.S. military is the biggest terrorist organization on the planet. Terrorism is also said to be what he bigger army (US) calls the smaller army (everyone else). This, of course, is only justified through the fallacy that is the so-called 'War on Terror' (a Lie). Imperialism is the motivation. And I think it was masterful of Obama to state an idea like this of reassurance to the American sheeple: "we must never take the military option off the table. But our first line of offense here must be sustained, direct and aggressive diplomacy." I think he's saying, "in other words, you believe in war -- and I have to take that into account as I run for the presidency -- but my intention is to devotedly pursue peace. I hope so..! Nuking Iran....uumm...NOT a good idea, NO MATTER WHAT. He goes on to propound "keeping the deadliest weapons out of the world's most dangerous hands" -- yes, please! is he implying he knows who the deadliest hands really are? -- "and to form alliances to change of message of hate to an agenda of hope." Looking at his background and his wife who knows him better than anybody, he means that, ya know. She would've split long ago -- or never gotten involved -- if he were phony in any way. Fallible, sure. But not phony. As for not pursuing criminal charges, even Henry Waxman who is the hound who has rounded up all the criminal details on Bush/Cheney, says we probably can't pursue them because of urgent priorities. Again, the message is that torture is OK. Lying about going to war is OK. Warrant-less wiretapping on us is OK. Wars for Empire are OK. Knowingly murdering Americans in a false-flag operation (9/11) is OK. Scaring the American public to death to justify the Bush program is OK. Proven war criminals not being accountable is OK. -Rich From: dimension04 at sbcglobal.netTo: richardfobes at hotmail.com; citizenstruth at six.pairlist.netSubject: Re: [CitizensTruth] More questionable characters-Zbigniew, Israel, etc.Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 09:13:25 -0600 Thanks for doing all this work on these subjects. I'm sorry I can't spend that much time myself, so maybe I am inadequately informed. However, Jay Leno's wife was particularly outspoken on the idea that perhaps U.S. forces could stop the Taliban's brutality. Note: not "bringing/forcing democracy down a country's throat" (that IS a despicable and ludicrous idea, like Bush in Iraq) -- but assisting with stopping a form of extreme international "domestic violence." It IS debatable whether any other country has the RIGHT to do that, but -- "since we had to go in there anyway to get bin Laden" -- yeah, yeah, yeah) -- I remember "eliminating the Taliban" as being the hope. It was never imagined that wedding parties and other innocent lives would be involved -- it was just "going after the bad guys." Too simplistic and idealistic and misguided, as it turned out. (And too sinister in what's really all behind it.) I would hope that Obama believes we've made an unspeakable mess there, and we need to clean it up -- hence more troops, but with a different focus. The skills of military organization CAN BE used to help humanity -- it just depends on who's giving the orders... ...as from your Obama quote below: "the first truly 21st century military and showing wisdom in how we deploy it." Wisdom is what I'm talking about. And what's wrong with his statement about "securing, destroying, and stopping the spread of weapons of mass destruction." That IS going on, it needs monitoring, it was Valerie Plame's operation before Bush et al shut it down by leaking her name. I understand they were pissed that her effectiveness stopped the transporting and planting of WMD in Iraq, which WOULD HAVE "justified" our invasion. And I think it was masterful of Obama to state an idea like this of reassurance to the American sheeple: "we must never take the military option off the table. But our first line of offense here must be sustained, direct and aggressive diplomacy." I think he's saying, "in other words, you believe in war -- and I have to take that into account as I run for the presidency -- but my intention is to devotedly pursue peace. He goes on to propound "keeping the deadliest weapons out of the world's most dangerous hands" -- yes, please! is he implying he knows who the deadliest hands really are? -- "and to form alliances to change of message of hate to an agenda of hope." Looking at his background and his wife who knows him better than anybody, he means that, ya know. She would've split long ago -- or never gotten involved -- if he were phony in any way. Fallible, sure. But not phony. As for not pursuing criminal charges, even Henry Waxman who is the hound who has rounded up all the criminal details on Bush/Cheney, says we probably can't pursue them because of urgent priorities. However, Obama's got somebody on board now just in case it becomes possible. From Frank Rich: One of the sharpest appointments yet made by the incoming president may support decisive action: Dawn Johnsen, a law professor and former Clinton administration official who last week was chosen to run the Office of Legal Counsel in the Department of Justice. This is the same office where the Bush apparatchik John Yoo produced his infamous memos justifying torture. Johnsen is a fierce critic of such constitutional abuses. In articles for Slate last year, she wondered ?where is the outrage, the public outcry? over a government that has acted lawlessly and that ?does not respect the legal and moral bounds of human decency.? She asked, ?How do we save our country?s honor, and our own?? As Johnsen wrote last March, we must also ?resist Bush administration efforts to hide evidence of its wrongdoing through demands for retroactive immunity, assertions of state privilege, and implausible claims that openness will empower terrorists.? http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/11/opinion/11rich.html?_r=1&th&emc=th As for Zbigniew -- "a Eurasia geostrategy is the purpose of this book" -- again, I can only say I was flabbergasted one time, maybe about 2 years ago, when he spoke about all that's wrong with this. He sounded like a whistleblower, not an advocate. I remain puzzled. Perhaps Carter and Obama just practice the cliche' -- "keep your friends close and your enemies even closer" -- in order to pick their brains and defeat their agenda. No more time. Thanks for input. Connie ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Fobes To: Citizen's.Truth Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 11:03 PM Subject: Re: [CitizensTruth] More questionable characters-Zbigniew, Israel, etc. "I remember the women's movement (despite being anti-war) being relieved that the U.S. was going in there, which would put down the Taliban, and therefore put a stop to their brutality towards all females.....Does Obama have an anti-Taliban-brutality motive -- in other words, an authentic human rights motive -- for focusing on Afghanistan?"Yes, that would be nice. But even an anti-Taliban-brutality motive does NOT justify what the U.S. has done in Afghanistan, nor does it justify what Obama has promised he is going to do by increasing the presence of our military by tens of thousands, which will ultimately result in the slaughter of thousands more innocents. I don't believe "bringing" (forcing) democracy down a country's throat with a gun and murdering thousands of innocent civilians (women and children mostly) justifies the war in Afghanistan. I don't know of one women that I've worked with or come across in anti-war or 9/11 Truth activism that said they were happy that we brought a war to Afghanistan, but that's just been my experience. According to Obama in his speech to the Chicago Council on Foreign Relations last April, his motives are to continue the so-called 'War on Terror' and continue our expansion of imperialistic wars of aggression:... "The second way America will lead again is by building the first truly 21st century military and showing wisdom in how we deploy it.""...We must maintain the strongest, best-equipped military in the world in order to defeat and deter conventional threats. But while sustaining our technological edge will always be central to our national security, the ability to put boots on the ground will be critical in eliminating the shadowy terrorist networks we now face."..."But the war in Afghanistan and the ill-advised invasion of Iraq have clearly demonstrated the consequences of underestimating the number of troops required to fight two wars and defend our homeland. That?s why I strongly support the expansion of our ground forces by adding 65,000 soldiers to the Army and 27,000 Marines." ..."The third way America must lead again is by marshalling a global effort to meet a threat that rises above all others in urgency ? securing, destroying, and stopping the spread of weapons of mass destruction."..."As starting points, the world must prevent Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons and work to eliminate North Korea?s nuclear weapons program. If America does not lead, these two nations could trigger regional arms races that could accelerate nuclear proliferation on a global scale and create dangerous nuclear flashpoints. In pursuit of this goal, we must never take the military option off the table. But our first line of offense here must be sustained, direct and aggressive diplomacy."..."These are the ways we will answer the challenge that arrived on our shores that September morning more than five years ago. A 21st century military to stay on the offense, from Djibouti to Kandahar. Global efforts to keep the world?s deadliest weapons out of the world?s most dangerous hands. Stronger alliances to share information, pool resources, and break up terrorist networks that operate in more than eighty countries. And a stronger push to defeat the terrorists? message of hate with an agenda for hope around the world."Yesterday, Barack Obama suggested he's not likely to actively pursue criminal charges against national security officials who were directly involved in unlawful interrogations or wire-tapping, and said it would be difficult to quickly close down Guantanamo Bay. On the question of prosecuting crimes that may have been committed during the Bush presidency in the course of the war on terror, Obama continued the theme of "looking forward as opposed to backwards" he took on the campaign trail.Asked specifically about the idea of a "9/11 commission with Independence subpoena power" to look at torture and warrantless wiretapping during the Bush years, Obama said that "We have not made final decisions, but my instinct is for us to focus on how do we make sure that moving forward we are doing the right thing. That doesn't mean that if somebody has blatantly broken the law, that they are above the law. But my orientation's going to be to move forward."So, in other words, he is sending the message that high level officials can do whatever they want to do and never have to worry about being accountable. Torture is OK. Lying about going to war is OK. Warrant-less wiretapping on us is OK. Wars for Empire are OK. Knowingly murdering Americans in a false-flag operation is OK. Scaring the American public to death to justify the Bush program is OK. Zbigniew Brzezinski - Some of his credentials include: Trustee and founder of the Trilateral Commission Past member, Board of Directors, The Council on Foreign Relations Attendee and presenter at several Bilderberg conferencesSome quotes from 'Grand Chessboard':"Ever since the continents started interacting politically, some five hundred years ago, Eurasia has been the center of world power."- (p. xiii)"It is imperative that no Eurasian challenger emerges capable of dominating Eurasia and thus of also challenging America. The formulation of a comprehensive and integrated Eurasian geostrategy is therefore the purpose of this book.? (p. xiv) "How America 'manages' Eurasia is critical. A power that dominates Eurasia would control two of the world's three most advanced and economically productive regions. A mere glance at the map also suggests that control over Eurasia would almost automatically entail Africa's subordination, rendering the Western Hemisphere and Oceania geopolitically peripheral to the world's central continent. About 75 per cent of the world's people live in Eurasia, and most of the world's physical wealth is there as well, both in its enterprises and underneath its soil. Eurasia accounts for about three-fourths of the world's known energy resources." (p.31) ?Never before has a populist democracy attained international supremacy. But the pursuit of power is not a goal that commands popular passion, except in conditions of a sudden threat or challenge to the public's sense of domestic well-being. The economic self-denial (that is, defense spending) and the human sacrifice (casualties, even among professional soldiers) required in the effort are uncongenial to democratic instincts. Democracy is inimical to imperial mobilization." (p.35)...And there are several other telling quotes here> From: dimension04 at sbcglobal.net> To: richardfobes at hotmail.com; rmigalla at earthlink.net; citizenstruth at six.pairlist.net> Subject: Re: [CitizensTruth] More questionable characters-Zbigniew, Israel, etc.> Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 03:18:46 -0600> > > > I haven't adequately looked into it, but I have at times wondered if > Brzezinski is misperceived. I remember being flabbergasted one time in an > interview where he sounded like a 9/11 Truther, sounding the alarm -- > leaving the impression that his "Grand Chessboard" book was not "what we > must do" -- like the aggression of PNAC -- but instead, that is just what IS > going on -- and that is (what we also believe) exactly what's wrong! (???)> > Also, he was Jimmy Carter's adviser, and it's hard to find a more > authentically humanitarian activist than Carter -- who even dares to openly > and frequently DIS Israel.> > As for Afghanistan -- I remember the women's movement (despite being > anti-war) being relieved that the U.S. was going in there, which would put > down the Taliban, and therefore put a stop to their brutality towards all > females. But of course, the Taliban have thrived under Bush. Does Obama > have an anti-Taliban-brutality motive -- in other words, an authentic human > rights motive -- for focusing on Afghanistan?> > As for Obama and Israel> http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2008/12/29> > The link leads off with "Obama aligns with White House..." But what the > article CLEARLY states, unlike the headline, is this:> > "So far, Obama has given no hint on his policy on the Israeli-Palestinian > conflict, though he has said finding a peace plan would be an early priority > of his administration."> > "Further, on 12/28/08, the Washington Post quoted an unnamed senior Bush > administration official saying he thought the Israelis launched the attack > because of uncertainty over Obama's policy."> > I've seen one or two other comments like this. The Israelis apparently have > some reasons to doubt blind loyalty from Obama, which has always been US > policy. And I remember, pre-election, a number of articles about Jewish > Americans being nervous about voting for Obama -- they saw indications he > was NOT very pro-Israel.> > For one thing, there are periodically headlines like this one in the foreign > press: "Obama will bring the end of Jewish Domination"> http://www.audacityofhypocrisy.com/2008/11/04/greek-newspaper-obama-win-will-bring-%e2%80%9cthe-end-of-jewish-domination%e2%80%9d/> > And mainly -- and I am kicking myself because I failed to copy the link -- > but here's the info that I DID copy from March, 2008:> > Barack Obama's military adviser and national campaign co-chairman is Merrill > "Tony" McPeak. McPeak is a former chief of staff of the Air Force.> > McPeak has a long history of criticizing Israel for not going back to the > 1967 borders as part of any peace agreement with Arab states. In 1976 McPeak > wrote an article for Foreign Affairs magazine questioning Israel's > insistence on holding on to the Golan Heights and parts of the West Bank.> > In recent years McPeak has echoed the Mearsheimer-Walt view that American > Middle East policy is being controlled by Jews (Zionists) at the expense of > America's interests in the region. In a 2003 interview with the Oregonian, > McPeak complained of that the "lack of playbook for getting Israelis and > Palestinians together ....We need to get it fixed and only we have the > authority with both sides to move them towards that. Everybody knows that."> > The interviewer then asked McPeak: "So where's the problem? State Dept.? > White House?"> > McPeak replied: "New York City. Miami. We have a large vote there in favor > of Israel. And no politician wants to run against it."> > Translation (as if it's needed): Jews (Zionists) -- who put Israel over > every American interest -- control America's policy on the Middle East.> > McPeak also claims that a combination of Jews and Christian Zionists are > manipulating U.S. policy in Iraq in dangerous and radical ways... Guys like > McPeak are upset because they think Jews have too much influence.> > Instead of discussing Hamas and Hezbollah, McPeak returns to his primary > target: Christian and Jews who support Israel...In other words, American > policy is the product of "religious Jews and neocons" who in McPeak's mind > are just as much to blame for a lack of peace in the Middle East as are > Hamas and Hezbollah."> > Last I checked, Obama still has McPeak on board as military adviser. There > is ample evidence, I'd say, that Obama is not as pro-Israel as is often > conveyed.> > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Richard Fobes " > To: "Connie Smith " ; "Robin Migalla " > ; "Truth Group (E-mail) " > > Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 12:48 PM> Subject: RE: [CitizensTruth] More questionable characters> > > What is most concerning to me is Obama's foreign policy. Zbig Brzenski is a > dangerous fellow, defining the term 'hawkish' and very war hungry. Obama > promises to enhance the 'good war' in Afghanistan by tens of thousands of > troops and re-depolying troops from Iraq to Afghanistan. These promises are > not humanitarian. There is no 'good war', especially the illegal war of > agression that we engaged in Afghanistan. I don't want to engage in anger > and defensiveness either in talking about Obama, but these things shouldn't > be ignored.> > This justification is under the guise of the so-called War on Terror, which > we KNOW is based on a lie that is 9/11. A more accurate decription is the > War OF Terror, including ther biggest domestic spying program in history > that Obama, unfortunately, is inheriting, not to mention the policy of > torture and the Bush doctrine of 'taking the fight to the terrorists'.> > Obama's recent FISA vote is concerning.> > > The promise to estabish tens of thousands of domestic troops is concerning. > His past loyalties to Israel and AIPAC is concerning, though I read an > article yesterday in the Guardian saying the Obama's transition team is > saying that they will be ready to talk to Hamas on a low-level diplomacy > level.> > > While I am grateful for the change from Bush, anything would have been > better.> > > Obama has his plate full (overly full!). I'm encouaged by some of his > words, but not most of his words about foreign policy. His actions will be > interesting.> > > -Rich> > > -----Original Message-----> From: Connie Smith > Sent: 1/11/2009 5:51:28 PM> To: Robin Migalla , Truth Group (E-mail) > > Subject: Re: [CitizensTruth] More questionable characters> > > > > I've lost track of it now -- I didn't archive it because I thought it was> common knowledge anyway -- it being a commentary by Obama about the need to> create jobs "from the bottom up, not from the top down" -- in other words,> priority given to local business-building, not global.> > I still think he's playing it safe with APPEARING to be no threat to the> powers-that-be, initially, easing his way into power until he can (almost> safely) be who he really is -- possibly one of the greatest humanitarians we> will ever know.> > Here's someone he's appointed that's being lauded as a "brilliant pick."> Being a constitutional law professor -- gosh, we finally have a politician> who actually KNOWS the Constitution and cares about it!! -- I think this> sort of appt. shows Obama's true colors.> > by Frank Rich: "One of the sharpest appointments yet made by the incoming> president may support decisive action: Dawn Johnsen, a law professor and> former Clinton administration official who last week was chosen to run the> Office of Legal Counsel in the Department of Justice.> > "This is the same office where the Bush apparatchik John Yoo produced his> infamous memos justifying torture. Johnsen is a fierce critic of such> constitutional abuses. In articles for Slate last year, she wondered 'where> is the outrage, the public outcry' over a government that has acted> lawlessly and that 'does not respect the legal and moral bounds of human> decency.' She asked, 'How do we save our country's honor, and our own?'> > "As Johnsen wrote last March, we must also 'resist Bush administration> efforts to hide evidence of its wrongdoing through demands for retroactive> immunity, its assertions of state privilege -- and the implausible claims> that openness will empower terrorists.' "> > http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/11/opinion/11rich.html?_r=1&th&emc=th> > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robin Migalla" > To: "Truth Group (E-mail)" > Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 9:52 AM> Subject: [CitizensTruth] More questionable characters> > > > Happy Sunday Everyone,> >> > Here's a new site I've just been turned onto that seems like it might be> > another lightworker among us...> >> > http://www.small-mart.org/> >> > Michael Shuman's Blog> > Ideas for Obamanomics: Post-Meltdown Thoughts (Part II)> >> > Posted on November 25, 2008> >> > Many of you were probably dancing in the streets on election night. I> > was -> > even though I identify myself as an independent. That the country will> > finally enjoy a leader who actually cares about ideas, who speaks> > grammatical English, who believes in science more than ideology, who> > doesn't see ecological or women's rights as liberal conspiracies, who> > exudes discipline, confidence, and charisma, who sincerely cares about the> > have-nots in society, and who won't always resort to war as the answer to> > every national security problem is a huge relief.> >> > But beware. Or, more precisely, be wary. Two weeks before the election, a> > Sunday talk show featured a debate between representatives of each> > campaign: Senator Evan Bayh (D-Indiana) representing Barack Obama versus> > Senator John Kyl (R-Arizona) representing John McCain. When the debate> > turned to which candidate would improve the nation's economic> > competitiveness, the two senators agreed that the goal was to attract more> > global corporations and spent the rest of their time quibbling over the> > best means of doing so. The role of small business was relegated to Joe> > the> > Plumber.> >> > Obama's Big Thinking> > President-elect Obama has surrounded himself with the visionary captains> > of> > global capitalism - those who believe that "kinder, gentler" free trade> > and> > free finance, qualified with corporate responsibility, will save our> > fast-sinking economy. Obama's chief economic advisor during the campaign,> > Jason Furman, is best known for a paper arguing that Wal-Mart, because it> > provides cheap goods for all, is one of the most progressive corporations> > in America. Robert Reich made his career in a series of arguments in early> > issues of The American Prospect suggesting (against Laura Tyson, another> > Obama advisor) that ownership of business generally - let alone local> > ownership - no longer mattered. And as John McCain fairly observed,> > candidate Obama has surrounded himself with experts who made awful calls> > over the past decade about relaxing standards for low-income housing loans> > and deregulating Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, all of which contributed to> > the current financial mess.> >> > What's most worrisome is that no one on the Obama A-Team understands that> > the key to revitalizing the economy and to fixing the financial crisis is> > nurturing and expanding locally owned business. But at the B- and C-Team> > levels there is enormous sympathy for the views of us locavores. So what> > should they be doing? (Full article http://www.small-mart.org/obamanomics)> >> > Color me really grateful for the internet,> > Robin> > _______________________________________________> > CitizensTruth mailing list> > CitizensTruth at six.pairlist.net> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/citizenstruth> > website: http://citizenstruth.info> > _______________________________________________> CitizensTruth mailing list> CitizensTruth at six.pairlist.net> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/citizenstruth> website: http://citizenstruth.info > Windows Live? Hotmail?: Chat. Store. Share. Do more with mail. Check it out. _______________________________________________CitizensTruth mailing listCitizensTruth at six.pairlist.nethttp://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/citizenstruthwebsite: http://citizenstruth.info _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_howitworks_012009 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From geri at thetwofacesofmoney.com Tue Jan 13 14:35:30 2009 From: geri at thetwofacesofmoney.com (Geri Perry) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 13:35:30 -0600 Subject: [CitizensTruth] [Fwd: Anti-Empire Report, January 2, 2009] Message-ID: <496CED02.2010200@thetwofacesofmoney.com> Hi folks, I've been slowly wending my way through my emails, and found the Anti-Empire Report Newsletter I get from William Blum, author of Killing Hope, Rogue States and other books. Since we're still on Obama, thought I'd share this intriguing segment of the most recent newsletter on Obama, along with the entire report following. *The question that may never go away: Who really is Barack Obama? *In his autobiography, "Dreams From My Fathers", Barack Obama writes of taking a job at some point after graduating from Columbia University in 1983. He describes his employer as "a consulting house to multinational corporations" in New York City, and his functions as a "research assistant" and "financial writer". The odd part of Obama's story is that he doesn't mention the name of his employer. However, a New York Times story of 2007 identifies the company as Business International Corporation.[10] Equally odd is that the Times did not remind its readers that the newspaper itself had disclosed in 1977 that Business International had provided cover for four CIA employees in various countries between 1955 and 1960.[11] The British journal, Lobster Magazine -- which, despite its incongruous name, is a venerable international publication on intelligence matters -- has reported that Business International was active in the 1980s promoting the candidacy of Washington-favored candidates in Australia and Fiji.[12] In 1987, the CIA overthrew the Fiji government after but one month in office because of its policy of maintaining the island as a nuclear-free zone, meaning that American nuclear-powered or nuclear-weapons-carrying ships could not make port calls.[13] After the Fiji coup, the candidate supported by Business International, who was much more amenable to Washington's nuclear desires, was reinstated to power -- R.S.K. Mara was Prime Minister or President of Fiji from 1970 to 2000, except for the one-month break in 1987. In his book, not only doesn't Obama mention his employer's name; he fails to say when he worked there, or why he left the job. There may well be no significance to these omissions, but inasmuch as Business International has a long association with the world of intelligence, covert actions, and attempts to penetrate the radical left -- including Students for a Democratic Society (SDS)[14] -- it's valid to wonder if the inscrutable Mr. Obama is concealing something about his own association with this world. -------- Original Message -------- *America's other glorious war *The Pentagon pushes hard for a large increase in troops for Afghanistan. Barack Obama has been calling for the same since well before the November election. Listen to the drumbeats telling us that the security of the United States and the Free World necessitates increased action in this place called Afghanistan. As urgent as Iraq 2003, it is. Why? What is there about this backward, reactionary, woman-hating, failed state that warrants hundreds of deaths of American and NATO soldiers? That justifies tens of thousands of Afghan deaths since the first US bombing attacks in October 2001? In early December, reports the Washington Post, "standing at Kandahar Air Field in Afghanistan, Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates said the United States is making a 'sustained commitment' to that country, one that will last 'some protracted period of time'." The story goes on to discuss $300 million in construction projects at this one base to house additional American forces, erecting guard stations and towers and perimeter fencing around the barracks area, putting in vehicle inspection areas, administration offices, cold-storage warehouse, a new power plant, electrical and water distribution systems, communications lines, housing for 1,500 personnel who sustain the systems, maintenance shops, warehouses[1] ... America's wealth bleeds out endlessly. Back in April Maj. Gen. David Rodriguez, commander of the US Army's 82nd Airborne Division, when asked how long it would take to create "lasting stability" in Afghanistan, replied: "In some way, shape or form ... I think it's a generation."[2] "Stability", it should be noted, is a code word used regularly by the United States since at least the 1950s to mean that the regime in power is willing and able to behave the way Washington would like it to behave. It is remarkable, and scary, to read the US military writing about how it goes around the world bringing "stability" to (often ungrateful) people. This past October the Army published a manual called "Stability Operations".[3] It discusses numerous American interventions all over the world since the 1890s, one example after another of bringing "stability" to benighted peoples. One can picture the young American service members reading it, or having it fed to them in lectures, full of pride to be a member of such an altruistic fighting force. For those members of the US military in Afghanistan the most enlightening lesson they could receive is that their government's plans for that land of sadness have little or nothing to do with the welfare of the Afghan people. In the late 1970s through much of the 1980s, the country had a government that was relatively progressive, with full rights for women; even a Pentagon report of the time testified to the actuality of women's rights in the country.[4] And what happened to that government? The United States was instrumental in overthrowing it. It was replaced by the Taliban. Since the dissolution of the Soviet Union, US oil companies have been vying with Russia, Iran and other energy interests for the massive, untapped oil and natural gas reserves in the former Soviet republics of Central Asia. The building and protection of oil and gas pipelines in Afghanistan, to continue farther to Pakistan, India, and elsewhere, has been a key objective of US policy since before the 2001 American invasion and occupation of the country, although the subsequent turmoil there has presented serious obstacles to such plans. A planned Turkmenistan-Afghanistan-Pakistan-India pipeline has strong support from Washington because, amongst other reasons, the US is eager to block a competing pipeline that would bring gas to Pakistan and India from Iran.[5] But security for such projects remains daunting, and that's where the US and NATO forces come in to play. In the late 1990s, the American oil company, Unocal, met with Taliban officials in Texas to discuss the pipelines.[6] Zalmay Khalilzad, later chosen to be the US ambassador to Afghanistan, worked for Unocal[7]; Hamid Karzai, later chosen by Washington to be the Afghan president, also reportedly worked for Unocal, although the company denies this. Unocal's talks with the Taliban, conducted with the full knowledge of the Clinton administration, and undeterred by the extreme repression of Taliban society, continued as late as 2000 or 2001. As for NATO, it has no reason to be fighting in Afghanistan. Indeed, NATO has no legitimate reason for existence at all. Their biggest fear is that "failure" in Afghanistan would make this thought more present in the world's mind. If NATO hadn?t begun to intervene outside of Europe it would have highlighted its uselessness and lack of mission. ?Out of area or out of business? it was said. In June, the Canadian Center for Policy Alternatives published a report saying Taliban and insurgent activity against the US-NATO presence in Kandahar province puts the feasibility of the pipeline project in doubt. The report says southern regions in Afghanistan, including Kandahar, would have to be cleared of insurgent activity and land mines in two years to meet construction and investment schedules. "Nobody is going to start putting pipe in the ground unless they are satisfied that there is some reasonable insurance that the workers for the pipeline are going to be safe," said Howard Brown, the Canadian representative for the Asian Development Bank, the major funding agency for the pipeline.[8] If Americans were asked what they think their country is doing in Afghanistan, their answers would likely be one variation or another of "fighting terrorism", with some kind of connection to 9-11. But what does that mean? Of the tens of thousands of Afghans killed by American/NATO bombs over the course of seven years, how many can it be said had any kind of linkage to any kind of anti-American terrorist act, other than in Afghanistan itself during this period? Not one, as far as we know. The so-called "terrorist training camps" in Afghanistan were set up largely by the Taliban to provide fighters for their civil conflict with the Northern Alliance (minimally less religious fanatics and misogynists than the Taliban, but represented in the present Afghan government). As everyone knows, none of the alleged 9-11 hijackers was an Afghan; 15 of the 19 were from Saudi Arabia; and most of the planning for the attacks appears to have been carried out in Germany and the United States. So, of course, bomb Afghanistan. And keep bombing Afghanistan. And bomb Pakistan. Especially wedding parties (at least six so far). *Israel and Palestine, again, forever* Nothing changes. Including what I have to say on the matter. To prove my point, I'm repeating part of what I wrote in this report in July 2006 ... There are times when I think this tired old world has gone on a few years too long. What's happening in the Middle East is so depressing. Most discussions of the everlasting Israel-Palestine conflict are variations on the child's eternal defense for misbehavior -- "He started it!" Within two minutes of discussing/arguing the latest manifestation of the conflict the participants are back to 1967, then 1948, then biblical times. Instead of getting entangled in who started the current mess, I'd prefer to express what I see as two essential underlying facts of life which remain from one conflict to the next: 1) Israel's existence is not at stake and hasn't been so for decades, if it ever was, regardless of the many de rigueur militant statements by Middle East leaders over the years. If Israel would learn to deal with its neighbors in a non-expansionist, non-military, humane, and respectful manner, engage in full prisoner exchanges, and sincerely strive for a viable two-state (if not one-state) solution, even those who are opposed to the idea of a state based on a particular religion could accept the state of Israel, and the question of its right to exist would scarcely arise in people's minds. But as it is, Israel still uses the issue as a justification for its behavior, as Jews all over the world use the Holocaust and conflating anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism. 2) In a conflict between a thousand-pound gorilla and a mouse, it's the gorilla who has to make concessions in order for the two sides to progress to the next level. What can the Palestinians offer in the way of concession? Israel would reply to that question: "No violent attacks of any kind." But that would leave the status quo ante bellum -- a life of unmitigated misery for the occupied, captive Palestinian people, confined to the world's largest open air concentration camp. It is a wanton act of collective punishment that is depriving the Palestinians of food, electricity, water, money, access to the outside world ... and sleep. Israel has been sending jets flying over Gaza at night triggering sonic booms, traumatizing children. "I want nobody to sleep at night in Gaza," declared Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert[9], words suitable for Israel's tombstone. Israel has created its worst enemies -- they helped create Hamas as a counterweight to Fatah in Palestine, and their occupation of Lebanon created Hezbollah. The current terrible bombings can be expected to keep the process going. Since its very beginning, Israel has been almost continually engaged in fighting wars and taking other people's lands. Did not any better way ever occur to the idealistic Zionist pioneers? *The question that may never go away: Who really is Barack Obama? *In his autobiography, "Dreams From My Fathers", Barack Obama writes of taking a job at some point after graduating from Columbia University in 1983. He describes his employer as "a consulting house to multinational corporations" in New York City, and his functions as a "research assistant" and "financial writer". The odd part of Obama's story is that he doesn't mention the name of his employer. However, a New York Times story of 2007 identifies the company as Business International Corporation.[10] Equally odd is that the Times did not remind its readers that the newspaper itself had disclosed in 1977 that Business International had provided cover for four CIA employees in various countries between 1955 and 1960.[11] The British journal, Lobster Magazine -- which, despite its incongruous name, is a venerable international publication on intelligence matters -- has reported that Business International was active in the 1980s promoting the candidacy of Washington-favored candidates in Australia and Fiji.[12] In 1987, the CIA overthrew the Fiji government after but one month in office because of its policy of maintaining the island as a nuclear-free zone, meaning that American nuclear-powered or nuclear-weapons-carrying ships could not make port calls.[13] After the Fiji coup, the candidate supported by Business International, who was much more amenable to Washington's nuclear desires, was reinstated to power -- R.S.K. Mara was Prime Minister or President of Fiji from 1970 to 2000, except for the one-month break in 1987. In his book, not only doesn't Obama mention his employer's name; he fails to say when he worked there, or why he left the job. There may well be no significance to these omissions, but inasmuch as Business International has a long association with the world of intelligence, covert actions, and attempts to penetrate the radical left -- including Students for a Democratic Society (SDS)[14] -- it's valid to wonder if the inscrutable Mr. Obama is concealing something about his own association with this world. *On socialist Cuba's 50th anniversary, January 1, 2009: Notes on the beginning of its unforgivable revolution. *The existence of a revolutionary socialist government with growing ties to the Soviet Union only 90 miles away, insisted the United States government, was a situation which no self-respecting superpower should tolerate, and in 1961 it undertook an invasion of Cuba. But less than 50 miles from the Soviet Union sat Pakistan, a close ally of the United States, a member since 1955 of the South-East Asia Treaty Organization (SEATO), the US-created anti-communist alliance. On the very border of the Soviet Union was Iran, an even closer ally of the United States, with its relentless electronic listening posts, aerial surveillance, and infiltration into Russian territory by American agents. And alongside Iran, also bordering the Soviet Union, was Turkey, a member of the Russians' mortal enemy, NATO, since 1951. In 1962 during the "Cuban Missile Crisis", Washington, seemingly in a state of near-panic, informed the world that the Russians were installing "offensive" missiles in Cuba. The US promptly instituted a "quarantine" of the island -- a powerful show of naval and marine forces in the Caribbean would stop and search all vessels heading towards Cuba; any found to contain military cargo would be forced to turn back. The United States, however, had missiles and bomber bases already in place in Turkey and other missiles in Western Europe pointed toward the Soviet Union. Russian leader Nikita Khrushchev later wrote: "The Americans had surrounded our country with military bases and threatened us with nuclear weapons, and now they would learn just what it feels like to have enemy missiles pointing at you; we'd be doing nothing more than giving them a little of their own medicine. ... After all, the United States had no moral or legal quarrel with us. We hadn't given the Cubans anything more than the Americans were giving to their allies. We had the same rights and opportunities as the Americans. Our conduct in the international arena was governed by the same rules and limits as the Americans."[15] Lest anyone misunderstand, as Khrushchev apparently did, the rules under which Washington was operating, Time magazine was quick to explain. "On the part of the Communists," the magazine declared, "this equating [referring to Khrushchev's offer to mutually remove missiles and bombers from Cuba and Turkey] had obvious tactical motives. On the part of neutralists and pacifists [who welcomed Khrushchev's offer] it betrayed intellectual and moral confusion." The confusion lay, it seems, in not seeing clearly who were the good guys and who were the bad guys, for "The purpose of the U.S. bases [in Turkey] was not to blackmail Russia but to strengthen the defense system of NATO, which had been created as a safeguard against Russian aggression. As a member of NATO, Turkey welcomed the bases as a contribution to her own defense." Cuba, which had been invaded only the year before, could have, it seems, no such concern. Time continued its sermon, which undoubtedly spoke for most Americans: "Beyond these differences between the two cases, there is an enormous moral difference between U.S. and Russian objectives ... To equate U.S. and Russian bases is in effect to equate U.S. and Russian purposes ... The U.S. bases, such as those in Turkey, have helped keep the peace since World War II, while the Russian bases in Cuba threatened to upset the peace. The Russian bases were intended to further conquest and domination, while U.S. bases were erected to preserve freedom. The difference should have been obvious to all."[16] Equally obvious was the right of the United States to maintain a military base on Cuban soil -- Guantanamo Naval Base by name, a vestige of colonialism staring down the throats of the Cuban people, which the US, to this day, refuses to vacate despite the vehement protest of the Castro government. In the American lexicon, in addition to good and bad bases and missiles, there are good and bad revolutions. The American and French Revolutions were good. The Cuban Revolution is bad. It must be bad because so many people have left Cuba as a result of it. But at least 100,000 people left the British colonies in America during and after the American Revolution. These Tories could not abide by the political and social changes, both actual and feared, particularly that change which attends all revolutions worthy of the name -- Those looked down upon as inferiors no longer know their place. (Or as the US Secretary of State put it after the Russian Revolution: The Bolsheviks sought "to make the ignorant and incapable mass of humanity dominant in the earth."[17]) The Tories fled to Nova Scotia and Britain carrying tales of the godless, dissolute, barbaric American revolutionaries. Those who remained and refused to take an oath of allegiance to the new state governments were denied virtually all civil liberties. Many were jailed, murdered, or forced into exile. After the American Civil War, thousands more fled to South America and other points, again disturbed by the social upheaval. How much more is such an exodus to be expected following the Cuban Revolution? -- a true social revolution, giving rise to changes much more profound than anything in the American experience. How many more would have left the United States if 90 miles away lay the world's wealthiest nation welcoming their residence and promising all manner of benefits and rewards? *NOTES *[1] Washington Post, December 25, 2008 [2] Reuters, April 29, 2008 [3] http://usacac.army.mil/cac2/Repository/FM307/FM3-07.pdf [4] U.S. Department of the Army, "Afghanistan, A Country Study" (1986), pp.121, 128, 130, 134, 136, 223, 232-3 [5] Globe & Mail (Toronto), June 19, 2008 [6] BBC News, December 4, 1997, "Taleban [sic] in Texas for talks on gas pipeline" [7] Washington Post, November 23, 2001 [8] United Press International, July 17, 2008 [9] Associated Press, July 3, 2006 [10] New York Times, October 30, 2007 [11] New York Times, December 27, 1977, p.40 [12] Lobster Magazine, Hull, UK, #14, November 1987 [13] William Blum, ?Rogue State: A Guide to the World?s Only Superpower?, pp.199-200 [14] Carl Oglesby, "Ravens in the Storm: A Personal History of the 1960s Antiwar Movement" (2008), passim [15] "Khrushchev Remembers" (1971) pp.494, 496. [16] Time magazine, November 2, 1962 [17] Cited by William Appleman Williams, "American Intervention in Russia: 1917-20", in David Horowitz, ed., "Containment and Revolution" (1967). Written in a letter to President Woodrow Wilson by Secretary of State Robert Lansing, uncle of John Foster and Allen Dulles. William Blum is the author of: Killing Hope: US Military and CIA Interventions Since World War 2 Rogue State: A Guide to the World's Only Superpower West-Bloc Dissident: A Cold War Memoir Freeing the World to Death: Essays on the American Empire Portions of the books can be read, and signed copies purchased, at > Previous Anti-Empire Reports can be read at this website. To add yourself to this mailing list simply send an email to > with "add" in the subject line. I'd like your name and city in the message, but that's optional. I ask for your city only in case I'll be speaking in your area. Or put "remove" in the subject line to do the opposite. Any part of this report may be disseminated without permission. I'd appreciate it if the website were mentioned. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making headlines . From geri at thetwofacesofmoney.com Tue Jan 13 14:57:06 2009 From: geri at thetwofacesofmoney.com (Geri Perry) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 13:57:06 -0600 Subject: [CitizensTruth] Farmers in India find New use for Coca cola and Pepsi Message-ID: <496CF212.4050102@thetwofacesofmoney.com> more reasons not to drink such poisons: http://www.indiaresource.org/campaigns/coke/2004/cokespins.html (India is not the only country where bottling plants are destroying the water supply and environment, not to mention our health of course) From dimension04 at sbcglobal.net Tue Jan 13 20:32:27 2009 From: dimension04 at sbcglobal.net (Connie Smith) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 19:32:27 -0600 Subject: [CitizensTruth] More questionable characters-Zbigniew, Israel, etc. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <11E0D65380CF49828FC381D834AE397F@InspironConnie> Dear Rich, Apparently my writing failed to convey to you -- such as when I put things in quotes and said yeah, yeah, yeah and "get bin Laden," etc. -- that I was mocking all those false rationales. In other words, being in agreement with most of what you state below. We have the same philosophy, except that you apparently know more than I do about Zbig, something which I also addressed and concluded with why I'm still puzzled. Certainly, for example, when I enclosed "justify" in quotes like this, regarding our incursion in Iraq, you knew I meant that it cannot be justified? And even when most Americans thought we had to go into Afghanistan (which I didn't), I nevertheless was explaining below the hopes of some feminists (human rights people) that U.S. presence would curb the Taliban -- in other words, hope there would be an upside to it since "we had to go in there." Now see, there are my quotes again, indicating: that was the thinking -- but the quotes mean it's not my thinking. The quotes mean that was the propaganda we got -- something which I thought was pretty easy to see through and felt frustrated beyond words that ANYBODY, any American, would fall for it. I want all the troops home, too -- but we might have some responsibility to clean up some messes first with military organization skills -- not military action -- such as it has been. Don't feel like explaining any more since it's probably not getting across again. Needing to move on. Connie ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Fobes To: dimension04 at sbcglobal.net ; Citizen's.Truth Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 1:07 PM Subject: RE: [CitizensTruth] More questionable characters-Zbigniew, Israel, etc. Thanks for engaging in this discussion! I am, by NO MEANS, an expert on Zbig. However, Mr. Founder of the Trilateral Commission, Zbig, is NOT a 9/11 whistleblower, I can assure you of that. He has been confronted on several occassions by 9/11 Truth activists, and he has shunned them away in hate and rage. He IS a war-monger, to be sure. He, like the PNAC boys, needed 9/11 to further his agenda of imperialism with the U.S. in charge, and he got it. Yes, he has criticized Bush and serveral of his policies and decisions, which is good. However, his life-long pursuit of attacking Pakistan and keeping the Soviets and China in check is well documented in Grand Chessboard. I would be willing to bet that when Obama suggested bombing Pakistan last year, that was Zbig talking. And, sure enough, we started bombing Pakistan a few months ago - Zbig and Obama got their wishes. WMDs or not, NOTHING would have justified our illegal war of aggression in Iraq. "but assisting with stopping a form of extreme international 'domestic violence.' " Again, I respectfully disagree, NOTHING can justify our illegal war of aggression in Afghanistan, period. It is/was under the guise of 'getting those shadowy terrorists' as Obama put, and fighting the 'good war' in Afghanistan because we needed to 'get Bin Laden' and 'stop al-Queda.' Eliminating the Taliban was not the idea, is was to ensure the pipelines were put down and secured. The U.S. was ready to go to war in Afghanistan prior to 9/11, the papers were allegedly on Bush's desk! In reality, they had no intention of 'getting Bin Laden' or stopping extreme international domestic violence. Even if they did, I don't think it's debatable that we had 'had the right' to invade their country and 'force democracy' among them, which isn't what happened or what is happening anyway. "I would hope that Obama believes we've made an unspeakable mess there, and we need to clean it up -- hence more troops, but with a different focus." Well, I have a much, much better idea: TROOPS HOME NOW! Not more violence, lost lives, endless war, torture, and trillions spent on our Defense budget. No one has ever been able to 'win' in Afghanistan ever before anyway. Plus, there are no 'winners' in that kind of a war. War is wrong. And what's wrong with his statement about "securing, destroying, and stopping the spread of weapons of mass destruction." That IS going on, it needs monitoring, it was Valerie Plame's operation before Bush et al shut it down by leaking her name. I understand they were pissed that her effectiveness stopped the transporting and planting of WMD in Iraq, which WOULD HAVE "justified" our invasion. I respectfully disagree. What's wrong here is that he is saying that the Bush doctrine is OK - bringing wars of aggression (imperialism) to other countries to secure, stop, and destroy the spread of WMDs. All the while, the U.S. clearly has the most WMDs, and the U.S. military is the biggest terrorist organization on the planet. Terrorism is also said to be what he bigger army (US) calls the smaller army (everyone else). This, of course, is only justified through the fallacy that is the so-called 'War on Terror' (a Lie). Imperialism is the motivation. And I think it was masterful of Obama to state an idea like this of reassurance to the American sheeple: "we must never take the military option off the table. But our first line of offense here must be sustained, direct and aggressive diplomacy." I think he's saying, "in other words, you believe in war -- and I have to take that into account as I run for the presidency -- but my intention is to devotedly pursue peace. I hope so..! Nuking Iran....uumm...NOT a good idea, NO MATTER WHAT. He goes on to propound "keeping the deadliest weapons out of the world's most dangerous hands" -- yes, please! is he implying he knows who the deadliest hands really are? -- "and to form alliances to change of message of hate to an agenda of hope." Looking at his background and his wife who knows him better than anybody, he means that, ya know. She would've split long ago -- or never gotten involved -- if he were phony in any way. Fallible, sure. But not phony. As for not pursuing criminal charges, even Henry Waxman who is the hound who has rounded up all the criminal details on Bush/Cheney, says we probably can't pursue them because of urgent priorities. Again, the message is that torture is OK. Lying about going to war is OK. Warrant-less wiretapping on us is OK. Wars for Empire are OK. Knowingly murdering Americans in a false-flag operation (9/11) is OK. Scaring the American public to death to justify the Bush program is OK. Proven war criminals not being accountable is OK. -Rich ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: dimension04 at sbcglobal.net To: richardfobes at hotmail.com; citizenstruth at six.pairlist.net Subject: Re: [CitizensTruth] More questionable characters-Zbigniew, Israel, etc. Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 09:13:25 -0600 Thanks for doing all this work on these subjects. I'm sorry I can't spend that much time myself, so maybe I am inadequately informed. However, Jay Leno's wife was particularly outspoken on the idea that perhaps U.S. forces could stop the Taliban's brutality. Note: not "bringing/forcing democracy down a country's throat" (that IS a despicable and ludicrous idea, like Bush in Iraq) -- but assisting with stopping a form of extreme international "domestic violence." It IS debatable whether any other country has the RIGHT to do that, but -- "since we had to go in there anyway to get bin Laden" -- yeah, yeah, yeah) -- I remember "eliminating the Taliban" as being the hope. It was never imagined that wedding parties and other innocent lives would be involved -- it was just "going after the bad guys." Too simplistic and idealistic and misguided, as it turned out. (And too sinister in what's really all behind it.) I would hope that Obama believes we've made an unspeakable mess there, and we need to clean it up -- hence more troops, but with a different focus. The skills of military organization CAN BE used to help humanity -- it just depends on who's giving the orders... ...as from your Obama quote below: "the first truly 21st century military and showing wisdom in how we deploy it." Wisdom is what I'm talking about. And what's wrong with his statement about "securing, destroying, and stopping the spread of weapons of mass destruction." That IS going on, it needs monitoring, it was Valerie Plame's operation before Bush et al shut it down by leaking her name. I understand they were pissed that her effectiveness stopped the transporting and planting of WMD in Iraq, which WOULD HAVE "justified" our invasion. And I think it was masterful of Obama to state an idea like this of reassurance to the American sheeple: "we must never take the military option off the table. But our first line of offense here must be sustained, direct and aggressive diplomacy." I think he's saying, "in other words, you believe in war -- and I have to take that into account as I run for the presidency -- but my intention is to devotedly pursue peace. He goes on to propound "keeping the deadliest weapons out of the world's most dangerous hands" -- yes, please! is he implying he knows who the deadliest hands really are? -- "and to form alliances to change of message of hate to an agenda of hope." Looking at his background and his wife who knows him better than anybody, he means that, ya know. She would've split long ago -- or never gotten involved -- if he were phony in any way. Fallible, sure. But not phony. As for not pursuing criminal charges, even Henry Waxman who is the hound who has rounded up all the criminal details on Bush/Cheney, says we probably can't pursue them because of urgent priorities. However, Obama's got somebody on board now just in case it becomes possible. From Frank Rich: One of the sharpest appointments yet made by the incoming president may support decisive action: Dawn Johnsen, a law professor and former Clinton administration official who last week was chosen to run the Office of Legal Counsel in the Department of Justice. This is the same office where the Bush apparatchik John Yoo produced his infamous memos justifying torture. Johnsen is a fierce critic of such constitutional abuses. In articles for Slate last year, she wondered ?where is the outrage, the public outcry? over a government that has acted lawlessly and that ?does not respect the legal and moral bounds of human decency.? She asked, ?How do we save our country?s honor, and our own?? As Johnsen wrote last March, we must also ?resist Bush administration efforts to hide evidence of its wrongdoing through demands for retroactive immunity, assertions of state privilege, and implausible claims that openness will empower terrorists.? http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/11/opinion/11rich.html?_r=1&th&emc=th As for Zbigniew -- "a Eurasia geostrategy is the purpose of this book" -- again, I can only say I was flabbergasted one time, maybe about 2 years ago, when he spoke about all that's wrong with this. He sounded like a whistleblower, not an advocate. I remain puzzled. Perhaps Carter and Obama just practice the cliche' -- "keep your friends close and your enemies even closer" -- in order to pick their brains and defeat their agenda. No more time. Thanks for input. Connie ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Fobes To: Citizen's.Truth Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 11:03 PM Subject: Re: [CitizensTruth] More questionable characters-Zbigniew, Israel, etc. "I remember the women's movement (despite being anti-war) being relieved that the U.S. was going in there, which would put down the Taliban, and therefore put a stop to their brutality towards all females.....Does Obama have an anti-Taliban-brutality motive -- in other words, an authentic human rights motive -- for focusing on Afghanistan?" Yes, that would be nice. But even an anti-Taliban-brutality motive does NOT justify what the U.S. has done in Afghanistan, nor does it justify what Obama has promised he is going to do by increasing the presence of our military by tens of thousands, which will ultimately result in the slaughter of thousands more innocents. I don't believe "bringing" (forcing) democracy down a country's throat with a gun and murdering thousands of innocent civilians (women and children mostly) justifies the war in Afghanistan. I don't know of one women that I've worked with or come across in anti-war or 9/11 Truth activism that said they were happy that we brought a war to Afghanistan, but that's just been my experience. According to Obama in his speech to the Chicago Council on Foreign Relations last April, his motives are to continue the so-called 'War on Terror' and continue our expansion of imperialistic wars of aggression: ... "The second way America will lead again is by building the first truly 21st century military and showing wisdom in how we deploy it." "...We must maintain the strongest, best-equipped military in the world in order to defeat and deter conventional threats. But while sustaining our technological edge will always be central to our national security, the ability to put boots on the ground will be critical in eliminating the shadowy terrorist networks we now face." ... "But the war in Afghanistan and the ill-advised invasion of Iraq have clearly demonstrated the consequences of underestimating the number of troops required to fight two wars and defend our homeland. That?s why I strongly support the expansion of our ground forces by adding 65,000 soldiers to the Army and 27,000 Marines." ... "The third way America must lead again is by marshalling a global effort to meet a threat that rises above all others in urgency ? securing, destroying, and stopping the spread of weapons of mass destruction." ... "As starting points, the world must prevent Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons and work to eliminate North Korea?s nuclear weapons program. If America does not lead, these two nations could trigger regional arms races that could accelerate nuclear proliferation on a global scale and create dangerous nuclear flashpoints. In pursuit of this goal, we must never take the military option off the table. But our first line of offense here must be sustained, direct and aggressive diplomacy." ... "These are the ways we will answer the challenge that arrived on our shores that September morning more than five years ago. A 21st century military to stay on the offense, from Djibouti to Kandahar. Global efforts to keep the world?s deadliest weapons out of the world?s most dangerous hands. Stronger alliances to share information, pool resources, and break up terrorist networks that operate in more than eighty countries. And a stronger push to defeat the terrorists? message of hate with an agenda for hope around the world." Yesterday, Barack Obama suggested he's not likely to actively pursue criminal charges against national security officials who were directly involved in unlawful interrogations or wire-tapping, and said it would be difficult to quickly close down Guantanamo Bay. On the question of prosecuting crimes that may have been committed during the Bush presidency in the course of the war on terror, Obama continued the theme of "looking forward as opposed to backwards" he took on the campaign trail. Asked specifically about the idea of a "9/11 commission with Independence subpoena power" to look at torture and warrantless wiretapping during the Bush years, Obama said that "We have not made final decisions, but my instinct is for us to focus on how do we make sure that moving forward we are doing the right thing. That doesn't mean that if somebody has blatantly broken the law, that they are above the law. But my orientation's going to be to move forward." So, in other words, he is sending the message that high level officials can do whatever they want to do and never have to worry about being accountable. Torture is OK. Lying about going to war is OK. Warrant-less wiretapping on us is OK. Wars for Empire are OK. Knowingly murdering Americans in a false-flag operation is OK. Scaring the American public to death to justify the Bush program is OK. Zbigniew Brzezinski - Some of his credentials include: a.. Trustee and founder of the Trilateral Commission b.. Past member, Board of Directors, The Council on Foreign Relations c.. Attendee and presenter at several Bilderberg conferences Some quotes from 'Grand Chessboard': "Ever since the continents started interacting politically, some five hundred years ago, Eurasia has been the center of world power."- (p. xiii) "It is imperative that no Eurasian challenger emerges capable of dominating Eurasia and thus of also challenging America. The formulation of a comprehensive and integrated Eurasian geostrategy is therefore the purpose of this book.? (p. xiv) "How America 'manages' Eurasia is critical. A power that dominates Eurasia would control two of the world's three most advanced and economically productive regions. A mere glance at the map also suggests that control over Eurasia would almost automatically entail Africa's subordination, rendering the Western Hemisphere and Oceania geopolitically peripheral to the world's central continent. About 75 per cent of the world's people live in Eurasia, and most of the world's physical wealth is there as well, both in its enterprises and underneath its soil. Eurasia accounts for about three-fourths of the world's known energy resources." (p.31) ?Never before has a populist democracy attained international supremacy. But the pursuit of power is not a goal that commands popular passion, except in conditions of a sudden threat or challenge to the public's sense of domestic well-being. The economic self-denial (that is, defense spending) and the human sacrifice (casualties, even among professional soldiers) required in the effort are uncongenial to democratic instincts. Democracy is inimical to imperial mobilization." (p.35) ...And there are several other telling quotes here > From: dimension04 at sbcglobal.net > To: richardfobes at hotmail.com; rmigalla at earthlink.net; citizenstruth at six.pairlist.net > Subject: Re: [CitizensTruth] More questionable characters-Zbigniew, Israel, etc. > Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 03:18:46 -0600 > > > > I haven't adequately looked into it, but I have at times wondered if > Brzezinski is misperceived. I remember being flabbergasted one time in an > interview where he sounded like a 9/11 Truther, sounding the alarm -- > leaving the impression that his "Grand Chessboard" book was not "what we > must do" -- like the aggression of PNAC -- but instead, that is just what IS > going on -- and that is (what we also believe) exactly what's wrong! (???) > > Also, he was Jimmy Carter's adviser, and it's hard to find a more > authentically humanitarian activist than Carter -- who even dares to openly > and frequently DIS Israel. > > As for Afghanistan -- I remember the women's movement (despite being > anti-war) being relieved that the U.S. was going in there, which would put > down the Taliban, and therefore put a stop to their brutality towards all > females. But of course, the Taliban have thrived under Bush. Does Obama > have an anti-Taliban-brutality motive -- in other words, an authentic human > rights motive -- for focusing on Afghanistan? > > As for Obama and Israel > http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2008/12/29 > > The link leads off with "Obama aligns with White House..." But what the > article CLEARLY states, unlike the headline, is this: > > "So far, Obama has given no hint on his policy on the Israeli-Palestinian > conflict, though he has said finding a peace plan would be an early priority > of his administration." > > "Further, on 12/28/08, the Washington Post quoted an unnamed senior Bush > administration official saying he thought the Israelis launched the attack > because of uncertainty over Obama's policy." > > I've seen one or two other comments like this. The Israelis apparently have > some reasons to doubt blind loyalty from Obama, which has always been US > policy. And I remember, pre-election, a number of articles about Jewish > Americans being nervous about voting for Obama -- they saw indications he > was NOT very pro-Israel. > > For one thing, there are periodically headlines like this one in the foreign > press: "Obama will bring the end of Jewish Domination" > http://www.audacityofhypocrisy.com/2008/11/04/greek-newspaper-obama-win-will-bring-%e2%80%9cthe-end-of-jewish-domination%e2%80%9d/ > > And mainly -- and I am kicking myself because I failed to copy the link -- > but here's the info that I DID copy from March, 2008: > > Barack Obama's military adviser and national campaign co-chairman is Merrill > "Tony" McPeak. McPeak is a former chief of staff of the Air Force. > > McPeak has a long history of criticizing Israel for not going back to the > 1967 borders as part of any peace agreement with Arab states. In 1976 McPeak > wrote an article for Foreign Affairs magazine questioning Israel's > insistence on holding on to the Golan Heights and parts of the West Bank. > > In recent years McPeak has echoed the Mearsheimer-Walt view that American > Middle East policy is being controlled by Jews (Zionists) at the expense of > America's interests in the region. In a 2003 interview with the Oregonian, > McPeak complained of that the "lack of playbook for getting Israelis and > Palestinians together ....We need to get it fixed and only we have the > authority with both sides to move them towards that. Everybody knows that." > > The interviewer then asked McPeak: "So where's the problem? State Dept.? > White House?" > > McPeak replied: "New York City. Miami. We have a large vote there in favor > of Israel. And no politician wants to run against it." > > Translation (as if it's needed): Jews (Zionists) -- who put Israel over > every American interest -- control America's policy on the Middle East. > > McPeak also claims that a combination of Jews and Christian Zionists are > manipulating U.S. policy in Iraq in dangerous and radical ways... Guys like > McPeak are upset because they think Jews have too much influence. > > Instead of discussing Hamas and Hezbollah, McPeak returns to his primary > target: Christian and Jews who support Israel...In other words, American > policy is the product of "religious Jews and neocons" who in McPeak's mind > are just as much to blame for a lack of peace in the Middle East as are > Hamas and Hezbollah." > > Last I checked, Obama still has McPeak on board as military adviser. There > is ample evidence, I'd say, that Obama is not as pro-Israel as is often > conveyed. > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Richard Fobes " > To: "Connie Smith " ; "Robin Migalla " > ; "Truth Group (E-mail) " > > Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 12:48 PM > Subject: RE: [CitizensTruth] More questionable characters > > > What is most concerning to me is Obama's foreign policy. Zbig Brzenski is a > dangerous fellow, defining the term 'hawkish' and very war hungry. Obama > promises to enhance the 'good war' in Afghanistan by tens of thousands of > troops and re-depolying troops from Iraq to Afghanistan. These promises are > not humanitarian. There is no 'good war', especially the illegal war of > agression that we engaged in Afghanistan. I don't want to engage in anger > and defensiveness either in talking about Obama, but these things shouldn't > be ignored. > > This justification is under the guise of the so-called War on Terror, which > we KNOW is based on a lie that is 9/11. A more accurate decription is the > War OF Terror, including ther biggest domestic spying program in history > that Obama, unfortunately, is inheriting, not to mention the policy of > torture and the Bush doctrine of 'taking the fight to the terrorists'. > > Obama's recent FISA vote is concerning. > > > The promise to estabish tens of thousands of domestic troops is concerning. > His past loyalties to Israel and AIPAC is concerning, though I read an > article yesterday in the Guardian saying the Obama's transition team is > saying that they will be ready to talk to Hamas on a low-level diplomacy > level. > > > While I am grateful for the change from Bush, anything would have been > better. > > > Obama has his plate full (overly full!). I'm encouaged by some of his > words, but not most of his words about foreign policy. His actions will be > interesting. > > > -Rich > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Connie Smith > Sent: 1/11/2009 5:51:28 PM > To: Robin Migalla , Truth Group (E-mail) > > Subject: Re: [CitizensTruth] More questionable characters > > > > > I've lost track of it now -- I didn't archive it because I thought it was > common knowledge anyway -- it being a commentary by Obama about the need to > create jobs "from the bottom up, not from the top down" -- in other words, > priority given to local business-building, not global. > > I still think he's playing it safe with APPEARING to be no threat to the > powers-that-be, initially, easing his way into power until he can (almost > safely) be who he really is -- possibly one of the greatest humanitarians we > will ever know. > > Here's someone he's appointed that's being lauded as a "brilliant pick." > Being a constitutional law professor -- gosh, we finally have a politician > who actually KNOWS the Constitution and cares about it!! -- I think this > sort of appt. shows Obama's true colors. > > by Frank Rich: "One of the sharpest appointments yet made by the incoming > president may support decisive action: Dawn Johnsen, a law professor and > former Clinton administration official who last week was chosen to run the > Office of Legal Counsel in the Department of Justice. > > "This is the same office where the Bush apparatchik John Yoo produced his > infamous memos justifying torture. Johnsen is a fierce critic of such > constitutional abuses. In articles for Slate last year, she wondered 'where > is the outrage, the public outcry' over a government that has acted > lawlessly and that 'does not respect the legal and moral bounds of human > decency.' She asked, 'How do we save our country's honor, and our own?' > > "As Johnsen wrote last March, we must also 'resist Bush administration > efforts to hide evidence of its wrongdoing through demands for retroactive > immunity, its assertions of state privilege -- and the implausible claims > that openness will empower terrorists.' " > > http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/11/opinion/11rich.html?_r=1&th&emc=th > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robin Migalla" > To: "Truth Group (E-mail)" > Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 9:52 AM > Subject: [CitizensTruth] More questionable characters > > > > Happy Sunday Everyone, > > > > Here's a new site I've just been turned onto that seems like it might be > > another lightworker among us... > > > > http://www.small-mart.org/ > > > > Michael Shuman's Blog > > Ideas for Obamanomics: Post-Meltdown Thoughts (Part II) > > > > Posted on November 25, 2008 > > > > Many of you were probably dancing in the streets on election night. I > > was - > > even though I identify myself as an independent. That the country will > > finally enjoy a leader who actually cares about ideas, who speaks > > grammatical English, who believes in science more than ideology, who > > doesn't see ecological or women's rights as liberal conspiracies, who > > exudes discipline, confidence, and charisma, who sincerely cares about the > > have-nots in society, and who won't always resort to war as the answer to > > every national security problem is a huge relief. > > > > But beware. Or, more precisely, be wary. Two weeks before the election, a > > Sunday talk show featured a debate between representatives of each > > campaign: Senator Evan Bayh (D-Indiana) representing Barack Obama versus > > Senator John Kyl (R-Arizona) representing John McCain. When the debate > > turned to which candidate would improve the nation's economic > > competitiveness, the two senators agreed that the goal was to attract more > > global corporations and spent the rest of their time quibbling over the > > best means of doing so. The role of small business was relegated to Joe > > the > > Plumber. > > > > Obama's Big Thinking > > President-elect Obama has surrounded himself with the visionary captains > > of > > global capitalism - those who believe that "kinder, gentler" free trade > > and > > free finance, qualified with corporate responsibility, will save our > > fast-sinking economy. Obama's chief economic advisor during the campaign, > > Jason Furman, is best known for a paper arguing that Wal-Mart, because it > > provides cheap goods for all, is one of the most progressive corporations > > in America. Robert Reich made his career in a series of arguments in early > > issues of The American Prospect suggesting (against Laura Tyson, another > > Obama advisor) that ownership of business generally - let alone local > > ownership - no longer mattered. And as John McCain fairly observed, > > candidate Obama has surrounded himself with experts who made awful calls > > over the past decade about relaxing standards for low-income housing loans > > and deregulating Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, all of which contributed to > > the current financial mess. > > > > What's most worrisome is that no one on the Obama A-Team understands that > > the key to revitalizing the economy and to fixing the financial crisis is > > nurturing and expanding locally owned business. But at the B- and C-Team > > levels there is enormous sympathy for the views of us locavores. So what > > should they be doing? (Full article http://www.small-mart.org/obamanomics) > > > > Color me really grateful for the internet, > > Robin > > _______________________________________________ > > CitizensTruth mailing list > > CitizensTruth at six.pairlist.net > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/citizenstruth > > website: http://citizenstruth.info > > _______________________________________________ > CitizensTruth mailing list > CitizensTruth at six.pairlist.net > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/citizenstruth > website: http://citizenstruth.info > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Windows Live? Hotmail?: Chat. Store. Share. Do more with mail. Check it out. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ CitizensTruth mailing list CitizensTruth at six.pairlist.net http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/citizenstruth website: http://citizenstruth.info ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. See how it works. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From futurenotwritten at yahoo.com Tue Jan 13 20:53:15 2009 From: futurenotwritten at yahoo.com (Jay Becker) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 17:53:15 -0800 (PST) Subject: [CitizensTruth] Emergency Forum on Gaza, Wed. 7 pm Message-ID: <478349.50354.qm@web33502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> REVOLUTION BOOKS / LIBROS REVOLUCI?N An emergency forum: Stop the Israeli Massacre in GazaWednesday, January 14, 7-9pm Carruthers Center for Inner City Studies Northeastern Illinois University - Southside Campus 700 East Oakwood Blvd., Chicago Presented by Revolution Books in conjunction with the National Black United Front. featuring: ? Dr. Ghada Hashem Talhami D.K. Pearsons Professor of Politics, Emerita, Lake Forest College Larry Everest Author of Oil, Power and Empire: Iraq and The U.S. Global Agenda and correspondent for Revolution newspaper - currently writing on the U.S. backed Invasion by Israel on Gaza Pa Joof Growing up in Africa, Pa Joof was part of the Pan African student movement and is currently a member of the Pan African Revolutionary Socialist Party as well as Africans On the Move.? Presentations followed by Questions & Answers The horror of Israel's invasion of Gaza mounts daily. See The Real Truth about the U.S.-Backed Israeli Invasion of Gaza. We are witnessing Israeli war crimes against the Palestinian people. Silence in this situation is complicity. We must speak the truth and strengthen and broaden political resistance now. For further information, call Revolution Books 773-489-0930 or email revbookschi at yahoo.com. DIRECTIONS: From the North side -Take I-90/94 East (heading Southbound). Merge onto I-55N (Eastbound toward Lake Shore Drive.)? Merge onto S LAKE SHORE DR/US-41 SOUTH, Exit at the OAKWOOD BLVD ramp. Turn RIGHT onto E OAKWOOD BLVD, Turn LEFT to stay on E OAKWOOD BLVD; 700 E Oakwood is at Oakwood and Langley. The Center for Inner City Studies is an 8 story building. Parking in the lot across the street By Public Transportation from the Loop - Catch the #4 Cottage Grove bus toward 95th Street, get off on Oakwood and walk one block West. Or take the Green Line El to 40th & Indiana; walk South to 39th Street Catch the 39th Street bus or walk East to 700 E Oakwood. Car caravan from Revolution Books, 6pm, 1103 N. Ashland Ave. (Blue Line to Division St.) Revolution Books/Libros Revoluci?n???? Winter Hours? 1103 N. Ashland Avenue??????????????????????????????? ? ? ? ? ? ?? Wed-Fri: 2:00 - 7:00 pm Chicago, IL 60622?????????????????????????????????????????????? ? ?????? Sat: Noon - 7:00 pm 773.489.0930 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?????????????????????????????????? ??? Sun: Noon - 5:00 pm revbookschi at pobox.com Go to Chicago Revolution Books blog for upcoming events. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From richardfobes at hotmail.com Tue Jan 13 21:07:11 2009 From: richardfobes at hotmail.com (Richard Fobes) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 20:07:11 -0600 Subject: [CitizensTruth] More questionable characters-Zbigniew, Israel, etc. In-Reply-To: <11E0D65380CF49828FC381D834AE397F@InspironConnie> References: <11E0D65380CF49828FC381D834AE397F@InspironConnie> Message-ID: Connie, You're right, it was getting hard for me to understand when you were mocking things and not (I'm slow.......) - often times emails are misinterpreted because of lack of tone and I apologize for any misinterpretation. You are also correct in that I wish I am wrong about Obama's promises not to pursue actions against the criminal Bush gang. However, you are suggesting that there may be a need for military organization skills, not military action, which is why Obama has promised troops surges and re-deployment by the tens of thousands. I'm not a military strategeryist (we won't be able to make fun of our president anymore because our president is too bright...!), but I would hope that does not require tens of thousands of troops as promised by Barack Obama. I would also assume that does not require further bombing/provocation of Pakistan, with an eye on the Soviet Union and China (Zbig). So, to me, this surge and provocation indicates a furthering of our imperialistic agenda. I understand that you wrote that you are needing to move on from this discussion, but I believe this to be important, as activists are becoming split about how to move forward in the Obama Administration. Anyway, I'm grateful for the discussion. Thank you for being respectful. -Rich From: dimension04 at sbcglobal.net To: richardfobes at hotmail.com; citizenstruth at six.pairlist.net Subject: Re: [CitizensTruth] More questionable characters-Zbigniew, Israel, etc. Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 19:32:27 -0600 Dear Rich, Apparently my writing failed to convey to you -- such as when I put things in quotes and said yeah, yeah, yeah and "get bin Laden," etc. -- that I was mocking all those false rationales. In other words, being in agreement with most of what you state below. We have the same philosophy, except that you apparently know more than I do about Zbig, something which I also addressed and concluded with why I'm still puzzled. Certainly, for example, when I enclosed "justify" in quotes like this, regarding our incursion in Iraq, you knew I meant that it cannot be justified? And even when most Americans thought we had to go into Afghanistan (which I didn't), I nevertheless was explaining below the hopes of some feminists (human rights people) that U.S. presence would curb the Taliban -- in other words, hope there would be an upside to it since "we had to go in there." Now see, there are my quotes again, indicating: that was the thinking -- but the quotes mean it's not my thinking. The quotes mean that was the propaganda we got -- something which I thought was pretty easy to see through and felt frustrated beyond words that ANYBODY, any American, would fall for it. I want all the troops home, too -- but we might have some responsibility to clean up some messes first with military organization skills -- not military action -- such as it has been. Don't feel like explaining any more since it's probably not getting across again. Needing to move on. Connie ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Fobes To: dimension04 at sbcglobal.net ; Citizen's.Truth Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 1:07 PM Subject: RE: [CitizensTruth] More questionable characters-Zbigniew, Israel, etc. Thanks for engaging in this discussion! I am, by NO MEANS, an expert on Zbig. However, Mr. Founder of the Trilateral Commission, Zbig, is NOT a 9/11 whistleblower, I can assure you of that. He has been confronted on several occassions by 9/11 Truth activists, and he has shunned them away in hate and rage. He IS a war-monger, to be sure. He, like the PNAC boys, needed 9/11 to further his agenda of imperialism with the U.S. in charge, and he got it. Yes, he has criticized Bush and serveral of his policies and decisions, which is good. However, his life-long pursuit of attacking Pakistan and keeping the Soviets and China in check is well documented in Grand Chessboard. I would be willing to bet that when Obama suggested bombing Pakistan last year, that was Zbig talking. And, sure enough, we started bombing Pakistan a few months ago - Zbig and Obama got their wishes. WMDs or not, NOTHING would have justified our illegal war of aggression in Iraq. "but assisting with stopping a form of extreme international 'domestic violence.' " Again, I respectfully disagree, NOTHING can justify our illegal war of aggression in Afghanistan, period. It is/was under the guise of 'getting those shadowy terrorists' as Obama put, and fighting the 'good war' in Afghanistan because we needed to 'get Bin Laden' and 'stop al-Queda.' Eliminating the Taliban was not the idea, is was to ensure the pipelines were put down and secured. The U.S. was ready to go to war in Afghanistan prior to 9/11, the papers were allegedly on Bush's desk! In reality, they had no intention of 'getting Bin Laden' or stopping extreme international domestic violence. Even if they did, I don't think it's debatable that we had 'had the right' to invade their country and 'force democracy' among them, which isn't what happened or what is happening anyway. "I would hope that Obama believes we've made an unspeakable mess there, and we need to clean it up -- hence more troops, but with a different focus." Well, I have a much, much better idea: TROOPS HOME NOW! Not more violence, lost lives, endless war, torture, and trillions spent on our Defense budget. No one has ever been able to 'win' in Afghanistan ever before anyway. Plus, there are no 'winners' in that kind of a war. War is wrong. And what's wrong with his statement about "securing, destroying, and stopping the spread of weapons of mass destruction." That IS going on, it needs monitoring, it was Valerie Plame's operation before Bush et al shut it down by leaking her name. I understand they were pissed that her effectiveness stopped the transporting and planting of WMD in Iraq, which WOULD HAVE "justified" our invasion. I respectfully disagree. What's wrong here is that he is saying that the Bush doctrine is OK - bringing wars of aggression (imperialism) to other countries to secure, stop, and destroy the spread of WMDs. All the while, the U.S. clearly has the most WMDs, and the U.S. military is the biggest terrorist organization on the planet. Terrorism is also said to be what he bigger army (US) calls the smaller army (everyone else). This, of course, is only justified through the fallacy that is the so-called 'War on Terror' (a Lie). Imperialism is the motivation. And I think it was masterful of Obama to state an idea like this of reassurance to the American sheeple: "we must never take the military option off the table. But our first line of offense here must be sustained, direct and aggressive diplomacy." I think he's saying, "in other words, you believe in war -- and I have to take that into account as I run for the presidency -- but my intention is to devotedly pursue peace. I hope so..! Nuking Iran....uumm...NOT a good idea, NO MATTER WHAT. He goes on to propound "keeping the deadliest weapons out of the world's most dangerous hands" -- yes, please! is he implying he knows who the deadliest hands really are? -- "and to form alliances to change of message of hate to an agenda of hope." Looking at his background and his wife who knows him better than anybody, he means that, ya know. She would've split long ago -- or never gotten involved -- if he were phony in any way. Fallible, sure. But not phony. As for not pursuing criminal charges, even Henry Waxman who is the hound who has rounded up all the criminal details on Bush/Cheney, says we probably can't pursue them because of urgent priorities. Again, the message is that torture is OK. Lying about going to war is OK. Warrant-less wiretapping on us is OK. Wars for Empire are OK. Knowingly murdering Americans in a false-flag operation (9/11) is OK. Scaring the American public to death to justify the Bush program is OK. Proven war criminals not being accountable is OK. -Rich From: dimension04 at sbcglobal.net To: richardfobes at hotmail.com; citizenstruth at six.pairlist.net Subject: Re: [CitizensTruth] More questionable characters-Zbigniew, Israel, etc. Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 09:13:25 -0600 Thanks for doing all this work on these subjects. I'm sorry I can't spend that much time myself, so maybe I am inadequately informed. However, Jay Leno's wife was particularly outspoken on the idea that perhaps U.S. forces could stop the Taliban's brutality. Note: not "bringing/forcing democracy down a country's throat" (that IS a despicable and ludicrous idea, like Bush in Iraq) -- but assisting with stopping a form of extreme international "domestic violence." It IS debatable whether any other country has the RIGHT to do that, but -- "since we had to go in there anyway to get bin Laden" -- yeah, yeah, yeah) -- I remember "eliminating the Taliban" as being the hope. It was never imagined that wedding parties and other innocent lives would be involved -- it was just "going after the bad guys." Too simplistic and idealistic and misguided, as it turned out. (And too sinister in what's really all behind it.) I would hope that Obama believes we've made an unspeakable mess there, and we need to clean it up -- hence more troops, but with a different focus. The skills of military organization CAN BE used to help humanity -- it just depends on who's giving the orders... ...as from your Obama quote below: "the first truly 21st century military and showing wisdom in how we deploy it." Wisdom is what I'm talking about. And what's wrong with his statement about "securing, destroying, and stopping the spread of weapons of mass destruction." That IS going on, it needs monitoring, it was Valerie Plame's operation before Bush et al shut it down by leaking her name. I understand they were pissed that her effectiveness stopped the transporting and planting of WMD in Iraq, which WOULD HAVE "justified" our invasion. And I think it was masterful of Obama to state an idea like this of reassurance to the American sheeple: "we must never take the military option off the table. But our first line of offense here must be sustained, direct and aggressive diplomacy." I think he's saying, "in other words, you believe in war -- and I have to take that into account as I run for the presidency -- but my intention is to devotedly pursue peace. He goes on to propound "keeping the deadliest weapons out of the world's most dangerous hands" -- yes, please! is he implying he knows who the deadliest hands really are? -- "and to form alliances to change of message of hate to an agenda of hope." Looking at his background and his wife who knows him better than anybody, he means that, ya know. She would've split long ago -- or never gotten involved -- if he were phony in any way. Fallible, sure. But not phony. As for not pursuing criminal charges, even Henry Waxman who is the hound who has rounded up all the criminal details on Bush/Cheney, says we probably can't pursue them because of urgent priorities. However, Obama's got somebody on board now just in case it becomes possible. From Frank Rich: One of the sharpest appointments yet made by the incoming president may support decisive action: Dawn Johnsen, a law professor and former Clinton administration official who last week was chosen to run the Office of Legal Counsel in the Department of Justice. This is the same office where the Bush apparatchik John Yoo produced his infamous memos justifying torture. Johnsen is a fierce critic of such constitutional abuses. In articles for Slate last year, she wondered ?where is the outrage, the public outcry? over a government that has acted lawlessly and that ?does not respect the legal and moral bounds of human decency.? She asked, ?How do we save our country?s honor, and our own?? As Johnsen wrote last March, we must also ?resist Bush administration efforts to hide evidence of its wrongdoing through demands for retroactive immunity, assertions of state privilege, and implausible claims that openness will empower terrorists.? http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/11/opinion/11rich.html?_r=1&th&emc=th As for Zbigniew -- "a Eurasia geostrategy is the purpose of this book" -- again, I can only say I was flabbergasted one time, maybe about 2 years ago, when he spoke about all that's wrong with this. He sounded like a whistleblower, not an advocate. I remain puzzled. Perhaps Carter and Obama just practice the cliche' -- "keep your friends close and your enemies even closer" -- in order to pick their brains and defeat their agenda. No more time. Thanks for input. Connie ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Fobes To: Citizen's.Truth Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 11:03 PM Subject: Re: [CitizensTruth] More questionable characters-Zbigniew, Israel, etc. "I remember the women's movement (despite being anti-war) being relieved that the U.S. was going in there, which would put down the Taliban, and therefore put a stop to their brutality towards all females.....Does Obama have an anti-Taliban-brutality motive -- in other words, an authentic human rights motive -- for focusing on Afghanistan?" Yes, that would be nice. But even an anti-Taliban-brutality motive does NOT justify what the U.S. has done in Afghanistan, nor does it justify what Obama has promised he is going to do by increasing the presence of our military by tens of thousands, which will ultimately result in the slaughter of thousands more innocents. I don't believe "bringing" (forcing) democracy down a country's throat with a gun and murdering thousands of innocent civilians (women and children mostly) justifies the war in Afghanistan. I don't know of one women that I've worked with or come across in anti-war or 9/11 Truth activism that said they were happy that we brought a war to Afghanistan, but that's just been my experience. According to Obama in his speech to the Chicago Council on Foreign Relations last April, his motives are to continue the so-called 'War on Terror' and continue our expansion of imperialistic wars of aggression: ... "The second way America will lead again is by building the first truly 21st century military and showing wisdom in how we deploy it." "...We must maintain the strongest, best-equipped military in the world in order to defeat and deter conventional threats. But while sustaining our technological edge will always be central to our national security, the ability to put boots on the ground will be critical in eliminating the shadowy terrorist networks we now face." ... "But the war in Afghanistan and the ill-advised invasion of Iraq have clearly demonstrated the consequences of underestimating the number of troops required to fight two wars and defend our homeland. That?s why I strongly support the expansion of our ground forces by adding 65,000 soldiers to the Army and 27,000 Marines." ... "The third way America must lead again is by marshalling a global effort to meet a threat that rises above all others in urgency ? securing, destroying, and stopping the spread of weapons of mass destruction." ... "As starting points, the world must prevent Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons and work to eliminate North Korea?s nuclear weapons program. If America does not lead, these two nations could trigger regional arms races that could accelerate nuclear proliferation on a global scale and create dangerous nuclear flashpoints. In pursuit of this goal, we must never take the military option off the table. But our first line of offense here must be sustained, direct and aggressive diplomacy." ... "These are the ways we will answer the challenge that arrived on our shores that September morning more than five years ago. A 21st century military to stay on the offense, from Djibouti to Kandahar. Global efforts to keep the world?s deadliest weapons out of the world?s most dangerous hands. Stronger alliances to share information, pool resources, and break up terrorist networks that operate in more than eighty countries. And a stronger push to defeat the terrorists? message of hate with an agenda for hope around the world." Yesterday, Barack Obama suggested he's not likely to actively pursue criminal charges against national security officials who were directly involved in unlawful interrogations or wire-tapping, and said it would be difficult to quickly close down Guantanamo Bay. On the question of prosecuting crimes that may have been committed during the Bush presidency in the course of the war on terror, Obama continued the theme of "looking forward as opposed to backwards" he took on the campaign trail. Asked specifically about the idea of a "9/11 commission with Independence subpoena power" to look at torture and warrantless wiretapping during the Bush years, Obama said that "We have not made final decisions, but my instinct is for us to focus on how do we make sure that moving forward we are doing the right thing. That doesn't mean that if somebody has blatantly broken the law, that they are above the law. But my orientation's going to be to move forward." So, in other words, he is sending the message that high level officials can do whatever they want to do and never have to worry about being accountable. Torture is OK. Lying about going to war is OK. Warrant-less wiretapping on us is OK. Wars for Empire are OK. Knowingly murdering Americans in a false-flag operation is OK. Scaring the American public to death to justify the Bush program is OK. Zbigniew Brzezinski - Some of his credentials include: Trustee and founder of the Trilateral Commission Past member, Board of Directors, The Council on Foreign Relations Attendee and presenter at several Bilderberg conferences Some quotes from 'Grand Chessboard': "Ever since the continents started interacting politically, some five hundred years ago, Eurasia has been the center of world power."- (p. xiii) "It is imperative that no Eurasian challenger emerges capable of dominating Eurasia and thus of also challenging America. The formulation of a comprehensive and integrated Eurasian geostrategy is therefore the purpose of this book.? (p. xiv) "How America 'manages' Eurasia is critical. A power that dominates Eurasia would control two of the world's three most advanced and economically productive regions. A mere glance at the map also suggests that control over Eurasia would almost automatically entail Africa's subordination, rendering the Western Hemisphere and Oceania geopolitically peripheral to the world's central continent. About 75 per cent of the world's people live in Eurasia, and most of the world's physical wealth is there as well, both in its enterprises and underneath its soil. Eurasia accounts for about three-fourths of the world's known energy resources." (p.31) ?Never before has a populist democracy attained international supremacy. But the pursuit of power is not a goal that commands popular passion, except in conditions of a sudden threat or challenge to the public's sense of domestic well-being. The economic self-denial (that is, defense spending) and the human sacrifice (casualties, even among professional soldiers) required in the effort are uncongenial to democratic instincts. Democracy is inimical to imperial mobilization." (p.35)...And there are several other telling quotes here > From: dimension04 at sbcglobal.net > To: richardfobes at hotmail.com; rmigalla at earthlink.net; citizenstruth at six.pairlist.net > Subject: Re: [CitizensTruth] More questionable characters-Zbigniew, Israel, etc. > Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 03:18:46 -0600 > > > > I haven't adequately looked into it, but I have at times wondered if > Brzezinski is misperceived. I remember being flabbergasted one time in an > interview where he sounded like a 9/11 Truther, sounding the alarm -- > leaving the impression that his "Grand Chessboard" book was not "what we > must do" -- like the aggression of PNAC -- but instead, that is just what IS > going on -- and that is (what we also believe) exactly what's wrong! (???) > > Also, he was Jimmy Carter's adviser, and it's hard to find a more > authentically humanitarian activist than Carter -- who even dares to openly > and frequently DIS Israel. > > As for Afghanistan -- I remember the women's movement (despite being > anti-war) being relieved that the U.S. was going in there, which would put > down the Taliban, and therefore put a stop to their brutality towards all > females. But of course, the Taliban have thrived under Bush. Does Obama > have an anti-Taliban-brutality motive -- in other words, an authentic human > rights motive -- for focusing on Afghanistan? > > As for Obama and Israel > http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2008/12/29 > > The link leads off with "Obama aligns with White House..." But what the > article CLEARLY states, unlike the headline, is this: > > "So far, Obama has given no hint on his policy on the Israeli-Palestinian > conflict, though he has said finding a peace plan would be an early priority > of his administration." > > "Further, on 12/28/08, the Washington Post quoted an unnamed senior Bush > administration official saying he thought the Israelis launched the attack > because of uncertainty over Obama's policy." > > I've seen one or two other comments like this. The Israelis apparently have > some reasons to doubt blind loyalty from Obama, which has always been US > policy. And I remember, pre-election, a number of articles about Jewish > Americans being nervous about voting for Obama -- they saw indications he > was NOT very pro-Israel. > > For one thing, there are periodically headlines like this one in the foreign > press: "Obama will bring the end of Jewish Domination" > http://www.audacityofhypocrisy.com/2008/11/04/greek-newspaper-obama-win-will-bring-%e2%80%9cthe-end-of-jewish-domination%e2%80%9d/ > > And mainly -- and I am kicking myself because I failed to copy the link -- > but here's the info that I DID copy from March, 2008: > > Barack Obama's military adviser and national campaign co-chairman is Merrill > "Tony" McPeak. McPeak is a former chief of staff of the Air Force. > > McPeak has a long history of criticizing Israel for not going back to the > 1967 borders as part of any peace agreement with Arab states. In 1976 McPeak > wrote an article for Foreign Affairs magazine questioning Israel's > insistence on holding on to the Golan Heights and parts of the West Bank. > > In recent years McPeak has echoed the Mearsheimer-Walt view that American > Middle East policy is being controlled by Jews (Zionists) at the expense of > America's interests in the region. In a 2003 interview with the Oregonian, > McPeak complained of that the "lack of playbook for getting Israelis and > Palestinians together ....We need to get it fixed and only we have the > authority with both sides to move them towards that. Everybody knows that." > > The interviewer then asked McPeak: "So where's the problem? State Dept.? > White House?" > > McPeak replied: "New York City. Miami. We have a large vote there in favor > of Israel. And no politician wants to run against it." > > Translation (as if it's needed): Jews (Zionists) -- who put Israel over > every American interest -- control America's policy on the Middle East. > > McPeak also claims that a combination of Jews and Christian Zionists are > manipulating U.S. policy in Iraq in dangerous and radical ways... Guys like > McPeak are upset because they think Jews have too much influence. > > Instead of discussing Hamas and Hezbollah, McPeak returns to his primary > target: Christian and Jews who support Israel...In other words, American > policy is the product of "religious Jews and neocons" who in McPeak's mind > are just as much to blame for a lack of peace in the Middle East as are > Hamas and Hezbollah." > > Last I checked, Obama still has McPeak on board as military adviser. There > is ample evidence, I'd say, that Obama is not as pro-Israel as is often > conveyed. > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Richard Fobes " > To: "Connie Smith " ; "Robin Migalla " > ; "Truth Group (E-mail) " > > Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 12:48 PM > Subject: RE: [CitizensTruth] More questionable characters > > > What is most concerning to me is Obama's foreign policy. Zbig Brzenski is a > dangerous fellow, defining the term 'hawkish' and very war hungry. Obama > promises to enhance the 'good war' in Afghanistan by tens of thousands of > troops and re-depolying troops from Iraq to Afghanistan. These promises are > not humanitarian. There is no 'good war', especially the illegal war of > agression that we engaged in Afghanistan. I don't want to engage in anger > and defensiveness either in talking about Obama, but these things shouldn't > be ignored. > > This justification is under the guise of the so-called War on Terror, which > we KNOW is based on a lie that is 9/11. A more accurate decription is the > War OF Terror, including ther biggest domestic spying program in history > that Obama, unfortunately, is inheriting, not to mention the policy of > torture and the Bush doctrine of 'taking the fight to the terrorists'. > > Obama's recent FISA vote is concerning. > > > The promise to estabish tens of thousands of domestic troops is concerning. > His past loyalties to Israel and AIPAC is concerning, though I read an > article yesterday in the Guardian saying the Obama's transition team is > saying that they will be ready to talk to Hamas on a low-level diplomacy > level. > > > While I am grateful for the change from Bush, anything would have been > better. > > > Obama has his plate full (overly full!). I'm encouaged by some of his > words, but not most of his words about foreign policy. His actions will be > interesting. > > > -Rich > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Connie Smith > Sent: 1/11/2009 5:51:28 PM > To: Robin Migalla , Truth Group (E-mail) > > Subject: Re: [CitizensTruth] More questionable characters > > > > > I've lost track of it now -- I didn't archive it because I thought it was > common knowledge anyway -- it being a commentary by Obama about the need to > create jobs "from the bottom up, not from the top down" -- in other words, > priority given to local business-building, not global. > > I still think he's playing it safe with APPEARING to be no threat to the > powers-that-be, initially, easing his way into power until he can (almost > safely) be who he really is -- possibly one of the greatest humanitarians we > will ever know. > > Here's someone he's appointed that's being lauded as a "brilliant pick." > Being a constitutional law professor -- gosh, we finally have a politician > who actually KNOWS the Constitution and cares about it!! -- I think this > sort of appt. shows Obama's true colors. > > by Frank Rich: "One of the sharpest appointments yet made by the incoming > president may support decisive action: Dawn Johnsen, a law professor and > former Clinton administration official who last week was chosen to run the > Office of Legal Counsel in the Department of Justice. > > "This is the same office where the Bush apparatchik John Yoo produced his > infamous memos justifying torture. Johnsen is a fierce critic of such > constitutional abuses. In articles for Slate last year, she wondered 'where > is the outrage, the public outcry' over a government that has acted > lawlessly and that 'does not respect the legal and moral bounds of human > decency.' She asked, 'How do we save our country's honor, and our own?' > > "As Johnsen wrote last March, we must also 'resist Bush administration > efforts to hide evidence of its wrongdoing through demands for retroactive > immunity, its assertions of state privilege -- and the implausible claims > that openness will empower terrorists.' " > > http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/11/opinion/11rich.html?_r=1&th&emc=th > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robin Migalla" > To: "Truth Group (E-mail)" > Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 9:52 AM > Subject: [CitizensTruth] More questionable characters > > > > Happy Sunday Everyone, > > > > Here's a new site I've just been turned onto that seems like it might be > > another lightworker among us... > > > > http://www.small-mart.org/ > > > > Michael Shuman's Blog > > Ideas for Obamanomics: Post-Meltdown Thoughts (Part II) > > > > Posted on November 25, 2008 > > > > Many of you were probably dancing in the streets on election night. I > > was - > > even though I identify myself as an independent. That the country will > > finally enjoy a leader who actually cares about ideas, who speaks > > grammatical English, who believes in science more than ideology, who > > doesn't see ecological or women's rights as liberal conspiracies, who > > exudes discipline, confidence, and charisma, who sincerely cares about the > > have-nots in society, and who won't always resort to war as the answer to > > every national security problem is a huge relief. > > > > But beware. Or, more precisely, be wary. Two weeks before the election, a > > Sunday talk show featured a debate between representatives of each > > campaign: Senator Evan Bayh (D-Indiana) representing Barack Obama versus > > Senator John Kyl (R-Arizona) representing John McCain. When the debate > > turned to which candidate would improve the nation's economic > > competitiveness, the two senators agreed that the goal was to attract more > > global corporations and spent the rest of their time quibbling over the > > best means of doing so. The role of small business was relegated to Joe > > the > > Plumber. > > > > Obama's Big Thinking > > President-elect Obama has surrounded himself with the visionary captains > > of > > global capitalism - those who believe that "kinder, gentler" free trade > > and > > free finance, qualified with corporate responsibility, will save our > > fast-sinking economy. Obama's chief economic advisor during the campaign, > > Jason Furman, is best known for a paper arguing that Wal-Mart, because it > > provides cheap goods for all, is one of the most progressive corporations > > in America. Robert Reich made his career in a series of arguments in early > > issues of The American Prospect suggesting (against Laura Tyson, another > > Obama advisor) that ownership of business generally - let alone local > > ownership - no longer mattered. And as John McCain fairly observed, > > candidate Obama has surrounded himself with experts who made awful calls > > over the past decade about relaxing standards for low-income housing loans > > and deregulating Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, all of which contributed to > > the current financial mess. > > > > What's most worrisome is that no one on the Obama A-Team understands that > > the key to revitalizing the economy and to fixing the financial crisis is > > nurturing and expanding locally owned business. But at the B- and C-Team > > levels there is enormous sympathy for the views of us locavores. So what > > should they be doing? (Full article http://www.small-mart.org/obamanomics) > > > > Color me really grateful for the internet, > > Robin > > _______________________________________________ > > CitizensTruth mailing list > > CitizensTruth at six.pairlist.net > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/citizenstruth > > website: http://citizenstruth.info > > _______________________________________________ > CitizensTruth mailing list > CitizensTruth at six.pairlist.net > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/citizenstruth > website: http://citizenstruth.info > Windows Live? Hotmail?: Chat. Store. Share. Do more with mail. Check it out. _______________________________________________ CitizensTruth mailing list CitizensTruth at six.pairlist.net http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/citizenstruth website: http://citizenstruth.info Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. See how it works. _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_explore_012009 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mincam2 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 13 21:56:28 2009 From: mincam2 at yahoo.com (Chuck Minne) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 18:56:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: [CitizensTruth] Heroin/Taliban - was Re: More questionable characters-Zbigniew, Israel, etc. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <680722.24122.qm@web36905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I think the first use and primary purpose (although it served a host of purposes,) of ?our? 9/11 attack was to get the heroin flowing out of Afghanistan. The Taliban quit cooperating in 2000 and jailed the drug lords among other things. So we had to do something in the fall of 2001 to get the poppy crop planted, and that meant taking the Taliban out. 9/11 was the justification for that. ? We used 9/11 first as the excuse to go after the Taliban in Afghanistan?because we wanted to make sure that the 2001 poppy crop got planted after the Taliban destroyed the 2000 poppy crop and?its resulting billion-dollar heroin drug profits. Afghan heroin production?for?2000 was around 3,000 tons,?for 2001 it was 174 tons, 2002 was a record 3,700 tons after we set the drug lords free. ? Obviously then 9/11 became a perfect cause for lots of other crap that we then pulled off, and still are. ? But we simply cannot afford to let the Taliban get control of the poppy crop?production again ? and that is what we, and Obama, are fighting for. All the other talk about what we are doing in Afghanistan is just window dressing ? including the pipeline talk. ? An excellent source for this and some other 9/11 stuff (but not all of it) is Michael Rupert?s Crossing the Rubicon. ? http://www.amazon.com/Crossing-Rubicon-Decline-American-Empire/dp/0865715408 ? And of course al-Qaeda is just a branch of the CIA.?We've met the enemy and they are us - even our new?about-to-be-anointed boss. If there were no poppies in Afghanistan we would be gone - unless AIPAC wanted us there for some reason. ? ? "I have lost faith, godammit! I put my faith in the People and that was a mistake! This is a shit people! They get stolen blind by their politicians and they lick their boots. They send their kids off to die for somebody's business deal and they celebrate it like they're doing something heroic! This great and glorious people! Lazy sacks of junk food and jingo!" ? From: "The Army of the Republic"? by Stuart Archer Cohen ? --- On Tue, 1/13/09, Richard Fobes wrote: From: Richard Fobes Subject: Re: [CitizensTruth] More questionable characters-Zbigniew, Israel, etc. To: "Citizen's.Truth" Date: Tuesday, January 13, 2009, 8:07 PM #yiv1322126541 .hmmessage P { margin:0px;padding:0px;} #yiv1322126541 { font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;} Connie, You're right, it was getting hard for me to understand when you were mocking things and not (I'm slow.......) - often times emails are misinterpreted because of lack of tone and I apologize for any misinterpretation. You are also correct in that I wish I am wrong about Obama's promises not to pursue actions against the criminal Bush gang.? However, you are suggesting that there may be a need for military organization skills, not military action, which is why Obama has promised troops surges and re-deployment by the tens of thousands.? I'm not a military strategeryist (we won't be able to make fun of our president anymore because our president is too bright...!), but I would hope that does not require tens of thousands of troops as promised by Barack Obama.?? I would also assume that? does not require further bombing/provocation of Pakistan, with an eye on the Soviet Union and China (Zbig).? So, to me, this surge and provocation indicates a furthering of our imperialistic agenda.? I understand that you wrote that you are needing to move on from this discussion, but I believe this to be important, as activists are becoming split about how to move forward in the Obama Administration. Anyway, I'm grateful for the discussion.? Thank you for being respectful. -Rich From: dimension04 at sbcglobal.net To: richardfobes at hotmail.com; citizenstruth at six.pairlist.net Subject: Re: [CitizensTruth] More questionable characters-Zbigniew, Israel, etc. Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 19:32:27 -0600 #yiv1322126541 .ExternalClass .EC_hmmessage P {padding-right:0px;padding-left:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-top:0px;} #yiv1322126541 .ExternalClass BODY.EC_hmmessage {font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;} ? ? Dear Rich, ? Apparently my writing failed to convey to you -- such as when I put things in quotes and said yeah, yeah, yeah and "get bin Laden," etc. -- that I was mocking all those false rationales.? In other words,?being in agreement?with most of what you state below.? ? We have the same philosophy, except that you apparently know more than I do about Zbig, something which I also addressed and concluded with why I'm still puzzled. ? Certainly, for example, when I enclosed?"justify" in quotes like this, regarding?our incursion in Iraq, you knew I meant that it cannot be justified? ? And even when most Americans thought we had to go into Afghanistan (which I didn't), I nevertheless was explaining below the hopes of some feminists (human rights people) that U.S. presence would curb the Taliban -- in other words, hope there would be an upside to it since "we had to go in there." ? Now see, there are my quotes again, indicating: ?that was?the thinking -- but?the quotes mean it's?not my thinking.? The quotes mean that was the propaganda we got -- something which I thought was pretty easy to see through and?felt frustrated beyond words that ANYBODY, any American, would fall for it. ? I want all the troops home, too -- but we might have some responsibility to clean up some messes first with military organization skills -- not military action -- such as it has been. ? Don't feel like explaining any more since it's probably not getting across again.? Needing to move on. ? Connie ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Fobes To: dimension04 at sbcglobal.net ; Citizen's.Truth Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 1:07 PM Subject: RE: [CitizensTruth] More questionable characters-Zbigniew, Israel, etc. Thanks for engaging in this discussion!? ? I am, by NO MEANS, an expert on Zbig.? However, Mr. Founder of the Trilateral Commission, Zbig, is NOT a 9/11 whistleblower, I can assure you of that.? He has been confronted on several occassions by 9/11 Truth activists, and he has shunned them away in hate and rage.? He IS a war-monger, to be sure.? He, like the PNAC boys, needed 9/11 to further his agenda of imperialism with the U.S. in charge, and he got it.? ? Yes, he has criticized Bush and serveral of his policies and decisions, which is good.? However, his life-long pursuit of attacking Pakistan and keeping the Soviets and China in check is well documented in Grand Chessboard.? I would be willing to bet that when Obama suggested bombing Pakistan last year, that was Zbig talking.? And, sure enough, we started bombing Pakistan a few months ago - Zbig and Obama got?their wishes. ? WMDs or not, NOTHING would have justified our illegal war of aggression in Iraq.? "but assisting with stopping a form of extreme international 'domestic violence.' "? ? Again, I respectfully disagree, NOTHING can justify our illegal war of aggression in Afghanistan, period.? It is/was under the guise of 'getting those shadowy terrorists' as Obama put, and fighting the 'good war' in Afghanistan because we needed to 'get Bin Laden' and 'stop al-Queda.'? Eliminating the Taliban was not the idea, is was to ensure the pipelines were put down and secured.? The U.S. was ready to go to war in Afghanistan prior to 9/11, the papers were allegedly on Bush's desk!? In reality, they had no intention of 'getting Bin Laden' or stopping extreme international domestic violence.? Even if they did, I don't think it's debatable that we had 'had the right' to invade their country and 'force democracy' among them, which isn't what happened or what is happening anyway. ? ? "I would hope that Obama believes we've made an unspeakable mess there, and we need to clean it up -- hence more troops, but with a different focus."? ? Well, I have a much, much better idea:? TROOPS HOME NOW!? Not more violence, lost lives, endless war, torture, and trillions spent on our Defense budget.? No one has ever been able to 'win' in Afghanistan ever before anyway.? Plus, there are no 'winners' in that kind of a war.? War is wrong.? ? ? And what's wrong with his statement about "securing, destroying, and stopping the spread of weapons of mass destruction."? That IS going on, it needs monitoring,?it was Valerie Plame's operation before Bush et al shut it down by leaking her name.? I understand they were pissed that?her effectiveness?stopped the transporting and?planting of WMD in Iraq, which WOULD HAVE "justified" our invasion.? ? ? I respectfully disagree.? What's wrong here is that he is saying that the Bush doctrine is OK - bringing wars of aggression (imperialism)?to other countries to secure, stop, and destroy the spread of WMDs.? All the while, the U.S. clearly has the most WMDs, and the U.S. military is the biggest terrorist organization on the planet.??Terrorism is also said to be what he bigger army (US) calls the smaller army (everyone else).??This, of course, is only justified through the fallacy that is the so-called 'War?on Terror' (a Lie).? Imperialism is the motivation.? ? ? And I think it was masterful of Obama to state an idea like this of reassurance to the American sheeple: "we must never take the military option off the table. But our first line of offense here must be sustained, direct and aggressive diplomacy."? I think he's saying, "in other words, you believe in war -- and I have to take that into account as I run for the presidency --?but?my intention is to?devotedly pursue peace. ? I hope so..!? Nuking Iran....uumm...NOT a good idea,?NO MATTER WHAT.? ? He goes on to propound "keeping the deadliest weapons out of the world's most dangerous hands" -- yes, please! is he implying he knows who the deadliest hands really are? -- "and to form alliances to change of message of hate to an agenda of hope."? Looking at his background and his wife who knows him better than anybody, he means that, ya know.? She would've split long ago -- or never gotten involved -- if he were phony in any way.? Fallible, sure.? But not phony. ? As for not pursuing criminal charges, even Henry Waxman who is?the hound who has rounded up all the criminal details on Bush/Cheney, says we probably can't pursue them because of urgent priorities. ? ?Again, the message is that torture is OK.? Lying about going to war is OK.? Warrant-less wiretapping on us is OK.? Wars for Empire are OK.? Knowingly murdering Americans in a false-flag operation (9/11) is OK.? Scaring the American public to death to justify the Bush program is OK.? Proven war criminals not being accountable is OK. ? ? ? -Rich ? ? ? ? ??? ? ? ? From: dimension04 at sbcglobal.net To: richardfobes at hotmail.com; citizenstruth at six.pairlist.net Subject: Re: [CitizensTruth] More questionable characters-Zbigniew, Israel, etc. Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 09:13:25 -0600 #yiv1322126541 .ExternalClass .EC_hmmessage P {padding-right:0px;padding-left:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-top:0px;} #yiv1322126541 .ExternalClass BODY.EC_hmmessage {font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;} ? ? Thanks for doing all this work on these subjects.? I'm sorry I can't spend that much time myself, so maybe I am inadequately informed. ? However, Jay Leno's wife was particularly outspoken on?the idea that perhaps U.S. forces could stop the Taliban's brutality.? Note:? not "bringing/forcing democracy down a country's throat" (that?IS a despicable and ludicrous?idea, like Bush in Iraq)?-- but assisting with stopping a form of extreme international "domestic violence."? It IS debatable whether any other country has the RIGHT to do that, but -- "since we had to go?in there anyway to get bin Laden" -- yeah, yeah, yeah) -- I remember?"eliminating the Taliban" as?being the hope. ? It was never imagined that wedding parties and other innocent lives would be involved -- it was just "going after the bad guys."? Too simplistic and idealistic and misguided, as it turned out.? (And too sinister in what's really all behind it.)? ? I would hope that Obama believes we've made an unspeakable mess there, and we need to clean it up -- hence more troops, but with a different focus.?The skills of military organization CAN BE used to help humanity -- it just depends on who's giving the orders... ? ...as from your Obama quote below: "the first truly 21st century military and showing wisdom in how we deploy it." Wisdom is what I'm talking about.? ? And what's wrong with his statement about "securing, destroying, and stopping the spread of weapons of mass destruction."? That IS going on, it needs monitoring,?it was Valerie Plame's operation before Bush et al shut it down by leaking her name.? I understand they were pissed that?her effectiveness?stopped the transporting and?planting of WMD in Iraq, which WOULD HAVE "justified" our invasion.? ? ? And I think it was masterful of Obama to state an idea like this of reassurance to the American sheeple: "we must never take the military option off the table. But our first line of offense here must be sustained, direct and aggressive diplomacy."? I think he's saying, "in other words, you believe in war -- and I have to take that into account as I run for the presidency --?but?my intention is to?devotedly pursue peace. ? ? ? He goes on to propound "keeping the deadliest weapons out of the world's most dangerous hands" -- yes, please! is he implying he knows who the deadliest hands really are? -- "and to form alliances to change of message of hate to an agenda of hope."? Looking at his background and his wife who knows him better than anybody, he means that, ya know.? She would've split long ago -- or never gotten involved -- if he were phony in any way.? Fallible, sure.? But not phony. ? As for not pursuing criminal charges, even Henry Waxman who is?the hound who has rounded up all the criminal details on Bush/Cheney, says we probably can't pursue them because of urgent priorities.? ? However, Obama's got somebody on board now just in case it becomes possible.? From Frank Rich: ? One of the sharpest appointments yet made by the incoming president may support decisive action: Dawn Johnsen, a law professor and former Clinton administration official who last week was chosen to run the Office of Legal Counsel in the Department of Justice. This is the same office where the Bush apparatchik John Yoo produced his infamous memos justifying torture. Johnsen is a fierce critic of such constitutional abuses. In articles for Slate last year, she wondered ?where is the outrage, the public outcry? over a government that has acted lawlessly and that ?does not respect the legal and moral bounds of human decency.? She asked, ?How do we save our country?s honor, and our own?? As Johnsen wrote last March, we must also ?resist Bush administration efforts to hide evidence of its wrongdoing through demands for retroactive immunity, assertions of state privilege, and implausible claims that openness will empower terrorists.? http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/11/opinion/11rich.html?_r=1&th&emc=th ? As for Zbigniew -- "a Eurasia geostrategy is the purpose of this book" -- again, I can only say I was flabbergasted one time, maybe about 2 years ago,?when he spoke about all that's wrong with this.? He sounded like a whistleblower, not an advocate.? I remain?puzzled. ? Perhaps Carter and Obama just practice the cliche' -- "keep your friends close and your enemies even closer" -- in order to pick their brains and defeat their agenda. ? No more time.? Thanks for input. Connie ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Fobes To: Citizen's.Truth Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 11:03 PM Subject: Re: [CitizensTruth] More questionable characters-Zbigniew, Israel, etc. "I remember the women's movement (despite being anti-war) being relieved that the U.S. was going in there, which would put down the Taliban, and therefore put a stop to their brutality towards all females.....Does Obama have an anti-Taliban-brutality motive -- in other words, an authentic human rights motive -- for focusing on Afghanistan?" Yes, that would be nice.? But even an anti-Taliban-brutality motive does NOT justify what the U.S. has done in Afghanistan, nor does it justify what Obama has promised he is going to do by increasing the presence of our military by tens of thousands, which will ultimately result in the slaughter of thousands more innocents.? I don't believe "bringing" (forcing) democracy down a country's throat with a gun and murdering thousands of innocent civilians (women and children mostly) justifies the war in Afghanistan.? I don't know of one women that I've worked with or come across in anti-war or 9/11 Truth activism that said they were happy that we brought a war to Afghanistan, but that's just been my experience.? According to Obama in his speech to the Chicago Council on Foreign Relations last April, his motives are to continue the so-called 'War on Terror' and continue our expansion of imperialistic wars of aggression: ... "The second way America will lead again is by building the first truly 21st century military and showing wisdom in how we deploy it." "...We must maintain the strongest, best-equipped military in the world in order to defeat and deter conventional threats. But while sustaining our technological edge will always be central to our national security, the ability to put boots on the ground will be critical in eliminating the shadowy terrorist networks we now face." ... "But the war in Afghanistan and the ill-advised invasion of Iraq have clearly demonstrated the consequences of underestimating the number of troops required to fight two wars and defend our homeland. That?s why I strongly support the expansion of our ground forces by adding 65,000 soldiers to the Army and 27,000 Marines." ... "The third way America must lead again is by marshalling a global effort to meet a threat that rises above all others in urgency ? securing, destroying, and stopping the spread of weapons of mass destruction." ... "As starting points, the world must prevent Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons and work to eliminate North Korea?s nuclear weapons program. If America does not lead, these two nations could trigger regional arms races that could accelerate nuclear proliferation on a global scale and create dangerous nuclear flashpoints. In pursuit of this goal, we must never take the military option off the table. But our first line of offense here must be sustained, direct and aggressive diplomacy." ... "These are the ways we will answer the challenge that arrived on our shores that September morning more than five years ago. A 21st century military to stay on the offense, from Djibouti to Kandahar. Global efforts to keep the world?s deadliest weapons out of the world?s most dangerous hands. Stronger alliances to share information, pool resources, and break up terrorist networks that operate in more than eighty countries. And a stronger push to defeat the terrorists? message of hate with an agenda for hope around the world." Yesterday, Barack Obama suggested he's not likely to actively pursue criminal charges against national security officials who were directly involved in unlawful interrogations or wire-tapping, and said it would be difficult to quickly close down Guantanamo Bay. On the question of prosecuting crimes that may have been committed during the Bush presidency in the course of the war on terror, Obama continued the theme of "looking forward as opposed to backwards" he took on the campaign trail. Asked specifically about the idea of a "9/11 commission with Independence subpoena power" to look at torture and warrantless wiretapping during the Bush years, Obama said that "We have not made final decisions, but my instinct is for us to focus on how do we make sure that moving forward we are doing the right thing. That doesn't mean that if somebody has blatantly broken the law, that they are above the law. But my orientation' s going to be to move forward." So, in other words, he is sending the message that high level officials can do whatever they want to do and never have to worry about being accountable.? Torture is OK.? Lying about going to war is OK.? Warrant-less wiretapping on us is OK.? Wars for Empire are OK.? Knowingly murdering Americans in a false-flag operation is OK.? Scaring the American public to death to justify the Bush program is OK.? Zbigniew Brzezinski - Some of his credentials include: Trustee and founder of the Trilateral Commission Past member, Board of Directors, The Council on Foreign Relations Attendee and presenter at several? Bilderberg conferences Some quotes from 'Grand Chessboard': "Ever since the continents started interacting politically, some five hundred years ago, Eurasia has been the center of world power."- (p. xiii) "It is imperative that no Eurasian challenger emerges capable of dominating Eurasia and thus of also challenging America. The formulation of a comprehensive and integrated Eurasian geostrategy is therefore the purpose of this book.? (p. xiv) "How America 'manages' Eurasia is critical. A power that dominates Eurasia would control two of the world's three most advanced and economically productive regions. A mere glance at the map also suggests that control over Eurasia would almost automatically entail Africa's subordination, rendering the Western Hemisphere and Oceania geopolitically peripheral to the world's central continent. About 75 per cent of the world's people live in Eurasia, and most of the world's physical wealth is there as well, both in its enterprises and underneath its soil. Eurasia accounts for about three-fourths of the world's known energy resources." (p.31) ?Never before has a populist democracy attained international supremacy. But the pursuit of power is not a goal that commands popular passion, except in conditions of a sudden threat or challenge to the public's sense of domestic well-being. The economic self-denial (that is, defense spending) and the human sacrifice (casualties, even among professional soldiers) required in the effort are uncongenial to democratic instincts. Democracy is inimical to imperial mobilization." (p.35)...And there are several other telling quotes here > From: dimension04 at sbcglobal.net > To: richardfobes at hotmail.com; rmigalla at earthlink.net; citizenstruth at six.pairlist.net > Subject: Re: [CitizensTruth] More questionable characters-Zbigniew, Israel, etc. > Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 03:18:46 -0600 > > > > I haven't adequately looked into it, but I have at times wondered if > Brzezinski is misperceived. I remember being flabbergasted one time in an > interview where he sounded like a 9/11 Truther, sounding the alarm -- > leaving the impression that his "Grand Chessboard" book was not "what we > must do" -- like the aggression of PNAC -- but instead, that is just what IS > going on -- and that is (what we also believe) exactly what's wrong! (???) > > Also, he was Jimmy Carter's adviser, and it's hard to find a more > authentically humanitarian activist than Carter -- who even dares to openly > and frequently DIS Israel. > > As for Afghanistan -- I remember the women's movement (despite being > anti-war) being relieved that the U.S. was going in there, which would put > down the Taliban, and therefore put a stop to their brutality towards all > females. But of course, the Taliban have thrived under Bush. Does Obama > have an anti-Taliban-brutality motive -- in other words, an authentic human > rights motive -- for focusing on Afghanistan? > > As for Obama and Israel > http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2008/12/29 > > The link leads off with "Obama aligns with White House..." But what the > article CLEARLY states, unlike the headline, is this: > > "So far, Obama has given no hint on his policy on the Israeli-Palestinian > conflict, though he has said finding a peace plan would be an early priority > of his administration." > > "Further, on 12/28/08, the Washington Post quoted an unnamed senior Bush > administration official saying he thought the Israelis launched the attack > because of uncertainty over Obama's policy." > > I've seen one or two other comments like this. The Israelis apparently have > some reasons to doubt blind loyalty from Obama, which has always been US > policy. And I remember, pre-election, a number of articles about Jewish > Americans being nervous about voting for Obama -- they saw indications he > was NOT very pro-Israel. > > For one thing, there are periodically headlines like this one in the foreign > press: "Obama will bring the end of Jewish Domination" > http://www.audacityofhypocrisy.com/2008/11/04/greek-newspaper-obama-win-will-bring-%e2%80%9cthe-end-of-jewish-domination%e2%80%9d/ > > And mainly -- and I am kicking myself because I failed to copy the link -- > but here's the info that I DID copy from March, 2008: > > Barack Obama's military adviser and national campaign co-chairman is Merrill > "Tony" McPeak. McPeak is a former chief of staff of the Air Force. > > McPeak has a long history of criticizing Israel for not going back to the > 1967 borders as part of any peace agreement with Arab states. In 1976 McPeak > wrote an article for Foreign Affairs magazine questioning Israel's > insistence on holding on to the Golan Heights and parts of the West Bank. > > In recent years McPeak has echoed the Mearsheimer-Walt view that American > Middle East policy is being controlled by Jews (Zionists) at the expense of > America's interests in the region. In a 2003 interview with the Oregonian, > McPeak complained of that the "lack of playbook for getting Israelis and > Palestinians together ....We need to get it fixed and only we have the > authority with both sides to move them towards that. Everybody knows that." > > The interviewer then asked McPeak: "So where's the problem? State Dept.? > White House?" > > McPeak replied: "New York City. Miami. We have a large vote there in favor > of Israel. And no politician wants to run against it." > > Translation (as if it's needed): Jews (Zionists) -- who put Israel over > every American interest -- control America's policy on the Middle East. > > McPeak also claims that a combination of Jews and Christian Zionists are > manipulating U.S. policy in Iraq in dangerous and radical ways... Guys like > McPeak are upset because they think Jews have too much influence. > > Instead of discussing Hamas and Hezbollah, McPeak returns to his primary > target: Christian and Jews who support Israel...In other words, American > policy is the product of "religious Jews and neocons" who in McPeak's mind > are just as much to blame for a lack of peace in the Middle East as are > Hamas and Hezbollah." > > Last I checked, Obama still has McPeak on board as military adviser. There > is ample evidence, I'd say, that Obama is not as pro-Israel as is often > conveyed. > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Richard Fobes " > To: "Connie Smith " ; "Robin Migalla " > ; "Truth Group (E-mail) " > > Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 12:48 PM > Subject: RE: [CitizensTruth] More questionable characters > > > What is most concerning to me is Obama's foreign policy. Zbig Brzenski is a > dangerous fellow, defining the term 'hawkish' and very war hungry. Obama > promises to enhance the 'good war' in Afghanistan by tens of thousands of > troops and re-depolying troops from Iraq to Afghanistan. These promises are > not humanitarian. There is no 'good war', especially the illegal war of > agression that we engaged in Afghanistan. I don't want to engage in anger > and defensiveness either in talking about Obama, but these things shouldn't > be ignored. > > This justification is under the guise of the so-called War on Terror, which > we KNOW is based on a lie that is 9/11. A more accurate decription is the > War OF Terror, including ther biggest domestic spying program in history > that Obama, unfortunately, is inheriting, not to mention the policy of > torture and the Bush doctrine of 'taking the fight to the terrorists'. > > Obama's recent FISA vote is concerning. > > > The promise to estabish tens of thousands of domestic troops is concerning. > His past loyalties to Israel and AIPAC is concerning, though I read an > article yesterday in the Guardian saying the Obama's transition team is > saying that they will be ready to talk to Hamas on a low-level diplomacy > level. > > > While I am grateful for the change from Bush, anything would have been > better. > > > Obama has his plate full (overly full!). I'm encouaged by some of his > words, but not most of his words about foreign policy. His actions will be > interesting. > > > -Rich > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Connie Smith > Sent: 1/11/2009 5:51:28 PM > To: Robin Migalla , Truth Group (E-mail) > > Subject: Re: [CitizensTruth] More questionable characters > > > > > I've lost track of it now -- I didn't archive it because I thought it was > common knowledge anyway -- it being a commentary by Obama about the need to > create jobs "from the bottom up, not from the top down" -- in other words, > priority given to local business-building, not global. > > I still think he's playing it safe with APPEARING to be no threat to the > powers-that-be, initially, easing his way into power until he can (almost > safely) be who he really is -- possibly one of the greatest humanitarians we > will ever know. > > Here's someone he's appointed that's being lauded as a "brilliant pick." > Being a constitutional law professor -- gosh, we finally have a politician > who actually KNOWS the Constitution and cares about it!! -- I think this > sort of appt. shows Obama's true colors. > > by Frank Rich: "One of the sharpest appointments yet made by the incoming > president may support decisive action: Dawn Johnsen, a law professor and > former Clinton administration official who last week was chosen to run the > Office of Legal Counsel in the Department of Justice. > > "This is the same office where the Bush apparatchik John Yoo produced his > infamous memos justifying torture. Johnsen is a fierce critic of such > constitutional abuses. In articles for Slate last year, she wondered 'where > is the outrage, the public outcry' over a government that has acted > lawlessly and that 'does not respect the legal and moral bounds of human > decency.' She asked, 'How do we save our country's honor, and our own?' > > "As Johnsen wrote last March, we must also 'resist Bush administration > efforts to hide evidence of its wrongdoing through demands for retroactive > immunity, its assertions of state privilege -- and the implausible claims > that openness will empower terrorists.' " > > http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/11/opinion/11rich.html?_r=1&th&emc=th > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robin Migalla" > To: "Truth Group (E-mail)" > Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 9:52 AM > Subject: [CitizensTruth] More questionable characters > > > > Happy Sunday Everyone, > > > > Here's a new site I've just been turned onto that seems like it might be > > another lightworker among us... > > > > http://www.small-mart.org/ > > > > Michael Shuman's Blog > > Ideas for Obamanomics: Post-Meltdown Thoughts (Part II) > > > > Posted on November 25, 2008 > > > > Many of you were probably dancing in the streets on election night. I > > was - > > even though I identify myself as an independent. That the country will > > finally enjoy a leader who actually cares about ideas, who speaks > > grammatical English, who believes in science more than ideology, who > > doesn't see ecological or women's rights as liberal conspiracies, who > > exudes discipline, confidence, and charisma, who sincerely cares about the > > have-nots in society, and who won't always resort to war as the answer to > > every national security problem is a huge relief. > > > > But beware. Or, more precisely, be wary. Two weeks before the election, a > > Sunday talk show featured a debate between representatives of each > > campaign: Senator Evan Bayh (D-Indiana) representing Barack Obama versus > > Senator John Kyl (R-Arizona) representing John McCain. When the debate > > turned to which candidate would improve the nation's economic > > competitiveness, the two senators agreed that the goal was to attract more > > global corporations and spent the rest of their time quibbling over the > > best means of doing so. The role of small business was relegated to Joe > > the > > Plumber. > > > > Obama's Big Thinking > > President-elect Obama has surrounded himself with the visionary captains > > of > > global capitalism - those who believe that "kinder, gentler" free trade > > and > > free finance, qualified with corporate responsibility, will save our > > fast-sinking economy. Obama's chief economic advisor during the campaign, > > Jason Furman, is best known for a paper arguing that Wal-Mart, because it > > provides cheap goods for all, is one of the most progressive corporations > > in America. Robert Reich made his career in a series of arguments in early > > issues of The American Prospect suggesting (against Laura Tyson, another > > Obama advisor) that ownership of business generally - let alone local > > ownership - no longer mattered. And as John McCain fairly observed, > > candidate Obama has surrounded himself with experts who made awful calls > > over the past decade about relaxing standards for low-income housing loans > > and deregulating Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, all of which contributed to > > the current financial mess. > > > > What's most worrisome is that no one on the Obama A-Team understands that > > the key to revitalizing the economy and to fixing the financial crisis is > > nurturing and expanding locally owned business. But at the B- and C-Team > > levels there is enormous sympathy for the views of us locavores. So what > > should they be doing? (Full article http://www.small-mart.org/obamanomics) > > > > Color me really grateful for the internet, > > Robin > > _______________________________________________ > > CitizensTruth mailing list > > CitizensTruth at six.pairlist.net > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/citizenstruth > > website: http://citizenstruth.info > > _______________________________________________ > CitizensTruth mailing list > CitizensTruth at six.pairlist.net > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/citizenstruth > website: http://citizenstruth.info > Windows Live? Hotmail?: Chat. Store. Share. Do more with mail. Check it out. _______________________________________________ CitizensTruth mailing list CitizensTruth at six.pairlist.net http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/citizenstruth website: http://citizenstruth.info Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. See how it works. Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. Check it out. _______________________________________________ CitizensTruth mailing list CitizensTruth at six.pairlist.net http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/citizenstruth website: http://citizenstruth.info -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mincam2 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 13 23:47:22 2009 From: mincam2 at yahoo.com (Chuck Minne) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 20:47:22 -0800 (PST) Subject: [CitizensTruth] Heroin/Taliban - was Re: More questionable characters-Zbigniew, Israel, etc. Message-ID: <219985.68347.qm@web36906.mail.mud.yahoo.com> The CIA also controls the worldwide drug trade. We've done Laos, Columbia and Afghanistan. The army we supported/emplaced?in Kosovo controls 75% of the drug trade going into eastern Europe. We aren't going to let ANYONE screw with the drug trade. Do you think a trillion dollars in drug cash does not eventually get deposited in banks - to their huge profit? That's why offshore banking was invented. That's why we fight. ? Our "government" is the Mother of All Drug Kingpins. Not only that, they cash in on the War on Drugs, too. Win, win. It's so bad, it's laughable. ? Recently a drug carrying jet that crashed was traced back to a flight in which it "rendered" prisoners to Eastern Europe for the CIA. Tiny tid-bit. ? The CIA and Wall Street are one and the same. Virtually every CIA director has come from there - and retires back to there. ? Read Ruppert's book, it will blow your mind. It is way too long, but full of information and compelling. It's a hard read, but you can't put it down for long. ? ? "I have lost faith, godammit! I put my faith in the People and that was a mistake! This is a shit people! They get stolen blind by their politicians and they lick their boots. They send their kids off to die for somebody's business deal and they celebrate it like they're doing something heroic! This great and glorious people! Lazy sacks of junk food and jingo!" ? From: "The Army of the Republic"? by Stuart Archer Cohen ? --- On Tue, 1/13/09, Richard Fobes wrote: From: Richard Fobes Subject: RE: Heroin/Taliban - was Re: [CitizensTruth] More questionable characters-Zbigniew, Israel, etc. To: mincam2 at yahoo.com Date: Tuesday, January 13, 2009, 9:32 PM #yiv1869936267 #yiv1761591419 .hmmessage P { margin:0px;padding:0px;} #yiv1869936267 #yiv1761591419 { font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;} Thanks for the reply.? I've had Rupert's book sitting on my shelf for almost two years, I know that I need to read it..!? So, curious, do 'we' need to control the crop production simply because of the $$$ that it produces, or a combination of that and 'us' not wanting to have the Taliban control it for other reasons?? -R -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mincam2 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 13 23:59:35 2009 From: mincam2 at yahoo.com (Chuck Minne) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 20:59:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: [CitizensTruth] Fwd: CIA torture jet crashes with 4 tons cocaine Message-ID: <851699.80669.qm@web36908.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Geri Perry wrote: Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 12:48:35 -0500 From: Geri Perry Subject: CIA torture jet crashes with 4 tons cocaine To: mincam2 at yahoo.com OOPS!!! Yet another major headline misses mainstream news radar: http://www.freedomsphoenix.com/Find-Freedom.htm?At=031367&From=News Excerpt: Florida based Gulfstream II jet aircraft # N987SA crash landed on September 24, 2007 after it ran out of fuel over Mexico's Yucatan Peninsula it had a cargo of several tons of Cocaine on board now documents have turned up on both sides of the Atlantic that link this Cocaine Smuggling Gulfstream II jet aircraft # N987SA that crashed in Mexico to the CIA who used it on at least 3 rendition flights from Europe and the USA to Guantanamo's infamous torture chambers between 2003 to 2005. gerip _______________________________________________ "Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger." Herman Goering at the Nuremberg Trials Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From janice.matthews at gmail.com Wed Jan 14 00:05:25 2009 From: janice.matthews at gmail.com (Janice Matthews) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 23:05:25 -0600 Subject: [CitizensTruth] Heroin/Taliban - was Re: More questionable characters-Zbigniew, Israel, etc. In-Reply-To: <219985.68347.qm@web36906.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <219985.68347.qm@web36906.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <496D7295.9020205@gmail.com> Another (my favorite) excellent source for all of this is Peter Dale Scott's /The Road to 9/11/. He lays all this out, documents US history in the global drug, weapons, and political terrorism trade with thorough sourcing. Again, difficult read because it's so thorough, but absolutely incredible to learn what the real history is. Puts current events into an entirely different light. Source for CIA drug planes crashing (and much, much more, including Clinton's sordid drug-running history) is Daniel Hopsicker, madcowprod.com ... incredible, really! Janice Chuck Minne wrote: > The CIA also controls the worldwide drug trade. We've done Laos, > Columbia and Afghanistan. The army we supported/emplaced in Kosovo > controls 75% of the drug trade going into eastern Europe. We aren't > going to let ANYONE screw with the drug trade. Do you think a trillion > dollars in drug cash does not eventually get deposited in banks - to > their huge profit? That's why offshore banking was invented. That's > why we fight. > > Our "government" is the Mother of All Drug Kingpins. Not only that, > they cash in on the War on Drugs, too. Win, win. It's so bad, it's > laughable. > > Recently a drug carrying jet that crashed was traced back to a flight > in which it "rendered" prisoners to Eastern Europe for the CIA. Tiny > tid-bit. > > The CIA and Wall Street are one and the same. Virtually every CIA > director has come from there - and retires back to there. > > Read Ruppert's book, it will blow your mind. It is way too long, but > full of information and compelling. It's a hard read, but you can't > put it down for long. > > > > "I have lost faith, godammit! I put my faith in the People and that > was a mistake! This is a shit people! They get stolen blind by their > politicians and they lick their boots. They send their kids off to die > for somebody's business deal and they celebrate it like they're doing > something heroic! This great and glorious people! Lazy sacks of junk > food and jingo!" > > From: "The Army of the Republic" by Stuart Archer Cohen > > > > --- On *Tue, 1/13/09, Richard Fobes //* wrote: > > From: Richard Fobes > Subject: RE: Heroin/Taliban - was Re: [CitizensTruth] More > questionable characters-Zbigniew, Israel, etc. > To: mincam2 at yahoo.com > Date: Tuesday, January 13, 2009, 9:32 PM > > Thanks for the reply. > > I've had Rupert's book sitting on my shelf for almost two years, I > know that I need to read it..! So, curious, do 'we' need to > control the crop production simply because of the $$$ that it > produces, or a combination of that and 'us' not wanting to have > the Taliban control it for other reasons? > > -R > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > CitizensTruth mailing list > CitizensTruth at six.pairlist.net > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/citizenstruth > website: http://citizenstruth.info > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dimension04 at sbcglobal.net Wed Jan 14 04:41:41 2009 From: dimension04 at sbcglobal.net (Connie Smith) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 03:41:41 -0600 Subject: [CitizensTruth] Heroin/Taliban - was Re: More questionable characters-Zbigniew, Israel, etc. In-Reply-To: <496D7295.9020205@gmail.com> References: <219985.68347.qm@web36906.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <496D7295.9020205@gmail.com> Message-ID: Yeah, the drug trade has been funding the elite's wealth and many black ops for a very long time. Somewhere years ago I read that Dubya's "glorious" history as a fly-boy was intended for this purpose, as a courier -- but he was too much of a scaredy-cat jerk to keep flying. ----- Original Message ----- From: Janice Matthews Cc: CitizensTruth Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 11:05 PM Subject: Re: [CitizensTruth] Heroin/Taliban - was Re: More questionable characters-Zbigniew, Israel, etc. Another (my favorite) excellent source for all of this is Peter Dale Scott's The Road to 9/11. He lays all this out, documents US history in the global drug, weapons, and political terrorism trade with thorough sourcing. Again, difficult read because it's so thorough, but absolutely incredible to learn what the real history is. Puts current events into an entirely different light. Source for CIA drug planes crashing (and much, much more, including Clinton's sordid drug-running history) is Daniel Hopsicker, madcowprod.com ... incredible, really! Janice Chuck Minne wrote: The CIA also controls the worldwide drug trade. We've done Laos, Columbia and Afghanistan. The army we supported/emplaced in Kosovo controls 75% of the drug trade going into eastern Europe. We aren't going to let ANYONE screw with the drug trade. Do you think a trillion dollars in drug cash does not eventually get deposited in banks - to their huge profit? That's why offshore banking was invented. That's why we fight. Our "government" is the Mother of All Drug Kingpins. Not only that, they cash in on the War on Drugs, too. Win, win. It's so bad, it's laughable. Recently a drug carrying jet that crashed was traced back to a flight in which it "rendered" prisoners to Eastern Europe for the CIA. Tiny tid-bit. The CIA and Wall Street are one and the same. Virtually every CIA director has come from there - and retires back to there. Read Ruppert's book, it will blow your mind. It is way too long, but full of information and compelling. It's a hard read, but you can't put it down for long. "I have lost faith, godammit! I put my faith in the People and that was a mistake! This is a shit people! They get stolen blind by their politicians and they lick their boots. They send their kids off to die for somebody's business deal and they celebrate it like they're doing something heroic! This great and glorious people! Lazy sacks of junk food and jingo!" From: "The Army of the Republic" by Stuart Archer Cohen --- On Tue, 1/13/09, Richard Fobes wrote: From: Richard Fobes Subject: RE: Heroin/Taliban - was Re: [CitizensTruth] More questionable characters-Zbigniew, Israel, etc. To: mincam2 at yahoo.com Date: Tuesday, January 13, 2009, 9:32 PM Thanks for the reply. I've had Rupert's book sitting on my shelf for almost two years, I know that I need to read it..! So, curious, do 'we' need to control the crop production simply because of the $$$ that it produces, or a combination of that and 'us' not wanting to have the Taliban control it for other reasons? -R -------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ CitizensTruth mailing list CitizensTruth at six.pairlist.net http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/citizenstruth website: http://citizenstruth.info ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ CitizensTruth mailing list CitizensTruth at six.pairlist.net http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/citizenstruth website: http://citizenstruth.info -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From edward_rynearson at yahoo.com Wed Jan 14 09:06:14 2009 From: edward_rynearson at yahoo.com (Edward Rynearson) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 06:06:14 -0800 (PST) Subject: [CitizensTruth] Tax problems may plague Obama's treasury pick Message-ID: <100909.42580.qm@web30002.mail.mud.yahoo.com> WASHINGTON ? A Capitol Hill grilling is likely for Timothy Geithner, President-elect Barack Obama's pick to head the Treasury Department, after public revelations he failed to pay $34,000 in taxes several years ago. Senate Democrats are pressing to schedule a quick confirmation hearing for Geithner on Friday, hoping to tee up swift approval of his nomination on Inauguration Day. But newly released information about the tax goofs by Geithner, regarded as a brilliant financial markets specialist well-positioned to deal with the nation's considerable economic problems, could complicate the process. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090114/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/treasury_nominee "He could/might/maybe face tough questions like Hillary" I've renamed the McNeil Lehrer Newshour the McNeil Brown Nose Hour From futurenotwritten at yahoo.com Wed Jan 14 10:13:43 2009 From: futurenotwritten at yahoo.com (Jay Becker) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 07:13:43 -0800 (PST) Subject: [CitizensTruth] Turley says prosecute Bush & Cheney for war crime of torture Message-ID: <926903.81706.qm@web33505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Here's an excellent Olbermann interview of Jonathan Turley, Georgetown Law, who demolishes Obama's "sympathy for torturers" at the CIA and his "instinct to look forward" rather than uphold the rule of law and prosecute war crimes, now publicly admitted and justified by Bush and Cheney.? As Turley puts it, if Obama refuses to prosecute, he "owns part of" these crimes. ? http://video.aol.com/video-detail/keith-olbermann-did-bush-committ-war-crimes/1891377321/?icid=VIDURVNWS08 Is this the change people thought they were getting, let alone the change the world needs? Check out Obama Inauguration The Promise of Change, The Rules of the System?and The Real Revolution We Need at www.revcom.us -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dimension04 at sbcglobal.net Thu Jan 15 05:54:32 2009 From: dimension04 at sbcglobal.net (Connie Smith) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 04:54:32 -0600 Subject: [CitizensTruth] In honor of the WTC towers... Message-ID: <66E6B2B0AA964909935C21359256F58A@InspironConnie> ...and in honor of the Human Spirit, there now emerges a documentary that is getting the highest praise in movie history, is described as "riveting," "breathtaking," and "exhilarating," and it totallly lives up to all the hype. It's called "Man on Wire." We got it from Netflix -- I don't know about its other availability, but it's been winning top awards everywhere. Back in the 70's when I heard about Philippe Petit's high-wire walk between the WTC towers in New York, I snorted at what an idiot he was. No longer. His joyous attitude towards life is perhaps the most happily infectious attitude on the planet, and it is a privilege to "spend some time" with him in the movie now made from his recent book: "To Reach the Clouds." But no need to wait -- just google his name and you will be swamped with stories and videos about this extraordinary person. Below are links to only 2 sources: the 2-minute trailer to the movie, and the Wikipedia bigger picture of him. Growing up in Paris, he was so creative and passionate about the many subjects HE wanted to learn that he was kicked out of 5 schools! As the towers rose when he was a teenager, he spent six years in planning his (you have to say it) -- LOVING -- performance for an hour on the highest of high-wires, on August 7, 1974. DAYS before Nixon resigned. And I must say how almost healing it is to see somebody sneaking in and out of the towers for MONTHS in order to achieve the "impossible" set-up on the roofs in the sky -- instead of sneaking in to do the unspeakable harm that later shocked the whole world. Petit never allowed any exploitation of his feat, shunned the avalanche of commercial endorsement offers that followed, and has often lived quietly as carpenter in upstate New York -- using tools and methods from the 1700's. Like his wire-walks, he deeply and passionately applies himself to accomplish masterful feats -- and always for the joy of it, not for the glory. I'm not sure what is motivating his big public emergence now, but I can say that his attitude of perfect balance between freedom and discipline may be the most instructive and inspiring example of what a human being can do -- ever! The documentary with its many re-creations of how it all was carried out is filled with suspense, too. Even though no terrorism had yet hit the towers, security measures against unauthorized presences in restricted areas were many times a considerable hurdle to overcome. The night before his awesome "dance on the wire" was so harrowing for him and his friends, I don't see how they had any nerves left then to do the hardest part of all: set up and secure all the equipment -- with Philippe then stepping out into the abyss between the buildings, one-quarter mile above the streets of Manhattan. "Not a dry eye in the house" characterizes a number of moments in this movie! And again, what a tribute to -- what an affectionate visit with -- the World Trade Center skyscrapers and their occupants that vanished so tragically in 2001. On the Special Features on our Netflix disc, we found even more depth and delight. For one thing, John Hankey's melliflous voice narrates a brief but beautifully animated children's version of the accomplishment. (As an aside here, due to personal correspondence, I can add that John's dire view of Barack Obama has altered since he published a pre-election tirade against him. I find this appropriate, because the "yes we can" slogans of Obama have had the effect of being not just rhetoric. And despite all the fallout we're suffering over Bush and Gang, a quantum change in spirit is overtaking this land. The authenticity of the spirit that people are experiencing fits so hand-in-glove with Philippe Petit's optimism-soaked life, that it's PERFECT for his "Man on Wire" movie and an historic presidential inauguration to take place at the same time.) Yes! For pure INSPIRATION -- and somewhat of a restoration of the World Trade Center -- watch this movie, read and watch the Internet interviews with Philippe, and get back in touch with the healthy child within that we can all bring forth if we want to! Connie 2-minute trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIawNRm9NWM brief bio: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_on_Wire -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dimension04 at sbcglobal.net Thu Jan 15 06:11:19 2009 From: dimension04 at sbcglobal.net (Connie Smith) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 05:11:19 -0600 Subject: [CitizensTruth] should have added this link Message-ID: John Hankey narrated the brief animated version of "Man on Wire" in Special Features. Here's his 9/11 Truth and other filmography: http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=jfkii.com&rls=com.microsoft:*:IE-SearchBox&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7DKUS&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=X&oi=video_result_group&resnum=4&ct=title# -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rmigalla at earthlink.net Thu Jan 15 18:04:22 2009 From: rmigalla at earthlink.net (Robin Migalla) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 17:04:22 -0600 Subject: [CitizensTruth] FW: To Avoid Misunderstandings Message-ID: <01C97733.514DF230.rmigalla@earthlink.net> Hi Everyone, I'm assuming many of you are already familiar with the Downsize DC organization, so please forgive me if you've already seen this message. I liked it so much I wanted to share it. Cheers, Robin -----Original Message----- From: Downsizer Dispatch [SMTP:downsizer-dispatch at downsizedc.org] Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 10:10 To: rmigalla at earthlink.net Subject: To Avoid Misunderstandings D o w n s i z e r - D i s p a t c h |*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*| Quote of the Day: "We did not see (as a result of brain scans of partisan loyalists) any increased activation of the parts of the brain normally engaged during reasoning. What we saw instead was a network of emotion circuits lighting up, including circuits hypothesized to be involved in regulating emotion, and circuits known to be involved in resolving conflicts. None of the circuits involved in conscious reasoning were particularly engaged. Essentially, it appears as if partisans twirl the cognitive kaleidoscope until they get the conclusions they want, and then they get massively reinforced for it, with the elimination of negative emotional states and activation of positive ones . . . The result is that partisan beliefs are calcified, and the person can learn very little from new data." -- Drew Westen, Director of Clinical Psychology at Emory University Subject: To avoid partisan misunderstandings We want to be clear. DownsizeDC.org is, by law, non-partisan. But the managers of DownsizeDC.org go one step further. We are philosophically and tempermentally ANTI-partisan. We believe political parties are a problem, not a solution. Likewise, we're skeptical of politicians. Any person who thinks he or she is qualified to make decisions for others, and to coerce others to abide by those decisions, is automatically suspect in our eyes. Politicians, almost by definition, are people who feel qualified to use government coercion to manage other people's lives. We disagree with them. They aren't qualified. No one is. In our view the best a politician can do is work to limit the use of government power. These boundaries are required by the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Sadly, most politicians are too impressed with themselves to limit themselves in such a way. This fact motivates us to be both anti-partisan and anti-politician. Where most people look to parties and politicians for solutions, we favor skeptical thinking, limited, decentralized power structures, individual liberty, and personal responsibility. We prefer to deal with issues, ideas, and principles. Here's where the potential for misunderstanding arises. Most people are used to thinking in terms of parties and personalities. Thus, if we support or oppose a policy associated with a particular party or politician, some jump to the conclusion that we are being partisan -- that we're picking sides. Nothing could be further from the truth. We care about the issue, not the party or the politician. For the past four years we've opposed (and only occasionally supported) policies associated with Republicans in general, and President Bush in particular. Some have assumed from this that we're anti-Republican, anti-Bush, and pro-Democrat. Now we have the opposite problem. The Democrats have gained control of Congress and the White House. We've responded by opposing coercive Democratic proposals. As a result . . . Some people jump to the conclusion that we're anti-Democrat, anti-Obama, and pro-Republican. Again, nothing could be further from the truth. What we are, and intend to remain, is consistent. Once again, we believe all politicians, of all parties, are fundamentally unqualified to decide how other people should live. We do not believe in top-down social engineering by Republicans, Democrats, or anyone else. We believe in critical thinking, limited, decentralized power structures, individual liberty, and personal responsibility. One hallmark of critical thought is the rejection of special pleading. Special pleading is when you have one standard for yourself, and a different standard for others. Loyalty to parties and politicians lends itself to special pleading and rank hypocrisy. We believe such loyalty is inherently toxic to the mind. We think it also damages the social fabric via unnecessary culture wars. We've pointed before to brain scan studies showing that partisan loyalists experience pleasure from lying on behalf of their own party. Our "quote of the day" comes from the lead scientist in these studies. We want to protect ourselves from this kind of dishonesty and non-thinking. We do this by being loyal to our principles and nothing else. Therefore, anyone who writes to us accusing us of being anti-Democrat, anti-Obama, or pro-Republican, is mistaking us for someone else. Personally, we (the undersigned) admire Obama's intelligence and composure. We also take pleasure in the fact that an African-American family will soon occupy the White House. But . . . This won't keep us from criticizing things like his vote to legalize warrantless spying and to immunize the telecom companies that aided such spying. Neither can we endorse his eagerness to spend a trillion dollars to supposedly stimulate the economy. We opposed the stimulus package when Bush wanted it. We'll continue to oppose it now that Obama wants it. We don't do special pleading. If you believe as we do that the stimulus bill will be full of waste, corporate welfare, and favors to political interests, then please send Congress a message opposing this bill. Do it now, and keep doing it until the vote is held. You can use our quick and easy Educate the Powerful system to send your message. Then, if you really agree with this focus on principle over partisanship and cult of personality, please go to our blog, located conveniently on our home page at www.DownsizeDC.org , and "Digg" the blog version of this message. If you've never used Digg before, please, go sign up! Thank you for being a member of the growing Downsize DC Army, which allows you to particpate or not participate on individual issues, depending on your own principles. Jim Babka & Perry Willis President & Communications Director DownsizeDC.org, Inc. P.S. This Congress is still just getting started. Not all new office holders have Internet contact pages yet. We are updating our system to reflect the new Congress, just as quickly as the information comes to us. If you have one or more new elected representatives, its possible that you won't be able to get a message to them. But your message should go through to any of your representatives that remain the same, or for which we have already received new information. Don't let this transition deter you from taking action. Your message will get through to someone, and will make a difference. |*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*| D o w n s i z e r - D i s p a t c h is the official email list of DownsizeDC.org, Inc. http://www.DownsizeDC.org & Downsize DC Foundation http://www.DownsizeDC.com CONTRIBUTE to the Electronic Lobbyist project at http://www.downsizedc.org/contribute.shtml http://www.DownsizeDC.org is sponsored by DownsizeDC.org, Inc. -- a non-profit educational organization promoting the ideas of individual liberty, personal responsibility, free markets, and small government. You are encouraged to forward this message to friends and business associates, and permission is hereby granted to reproduce any items herein as long as attribution is provided for articles and the subscription instructions above are included. If you have difficulties or inquiries, simply hit reply to this message. We're eager to help, including with requests to unsubscribe. You are subscribed to this newsletter at this email address: rmigalla at earthlink.net -- If you do not want to receive any more newsletters, http://www.downsizedc.org/lists/?p=unsubscribe&uid=ea0eea35d684d2d5ea223 f0e5aa3f5a1 To update your preferences and to unsubscribe visit http://www.downsizedc.org/lists/?p=preferences&uid=ea0eea35d684d2d5ea223 f0e5aa3f5a1 -- Powered by PHPlist, www.phplist.com -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/png Size: 2408 bytes Desc: not available Url : From mincam2 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 15 18:34:08 2009 From: mincam2 at yahoo.com (Chuck Minne) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 15:34:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: [CitizensTruth] FW: To Avoid Misunderstandings In-Reply-To: <01C97733.514DF230.rmigalla@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <462713.46594.qm@web36903.mail.mud.yahoo.com> While I am not in favor of big government per se, I am very leery of those who preach downsize, for those are often code words for "de-regulate." ? Capitalism is based on greed with not altruistic motives whatsoever. And while I believe that performance should be rewarded and even well rewarded, I believe that capitalism must be very strictly regulated. And in some cases lots of regulation means lots of government. ? We obviously need regulation in almost every endeavor, especially health, energy, environment, military, intelligence, and, oh, hell, the list goes on forever. ? For those of you who missed the 60 Minutes show on Oil Speculation, you can see and/or read it here: ? http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/01/08/60minutes/main4707770.shtml?tag=topStory;topStoryHeadline ? ? Here is a quote from that show, I think it points out the need for regulation; so I am not so sure about those who preach "downsizing," - they are too Enron-like for my taste. (BTW all the Enron papers were destroyed in WTC7, so there was no prosecution.): ? ? ? Asked who was buying this "paper oil," Masters told Kroft, "The California pension fund. Harvard Endowment. Lots of large institutional investors. And, by the way, other investors, hedge funds, Wall Street trading desks were following right behind them, putting money - sovereign wealth funds were putting money in the futures markets as well. So you had all these investors putting money in the futures markets. And that was driving the price up." ? ????In a five year period, Masters said the amount of money institutional investors, hedge funds, and the big Wall Street banks had placed in the commodities markets went from $13 billion to $300 billion. Last year, 27 barrels of crude were being traded every day on the New York Mercantile Exchange for every one barrel of oil that was actually being consumed in the United States. ? ????"We talked to the largest physical trader of crude oil. And they told us that compared to the size of the investment inflows - and remember, this is the largest physical crude oil trader in the United States - they said that we are basically a flea on an elephant, that that's how big these flows were," Masters remembered. later: ?"Who was responsible for deregulating the oil future market?" Kroft asked Michael Greenberger. ? ????"You'd have to say Enron," he replied. "This was something they desperately wanted, and they got." ? ????Greenberger, who wanted more regulation while he was at the Commodity Futures Trading Commission, not less, says it all happened when Enron was the seventh largest corporation in the United States. "This was when Enron was riding high. And what Enron wanted, Enron got." ? ????Asked why they wanted a deregulated market in oil futures, Greenberger said, "Because they wanted to establish their own little energy futures exchange through computerized trading. They knew that if they could get this trading engine established without the controls that had been placed on speculators, they would have the ability to drive the price of energy products in any way they wanted to take it." ? ????"When Enron failed, we learned that Enron, and its conspirators who used their trading engine, were able to drive the price of electricity up, some say, by as much as 300 percent on the West Coast," he added. ? ????"Is the same thing going on right now in the oil business?" Kroft asked. ? "Every Enron trader, who knew how to do these manipulations, became the most valuable employee on Wall Street," Greenberger said ? ? "I have lost faith, godammit! I put my faith in the People and that was a mistake! This is a shit people! They get stolen blind by their politicians and they lick their boots. They send their kids off to die for somebody's business deal and they celebrate it like they're doing something heroic! This great and glorious people! Lazy sacks of junk food and jingo!" ? From: "The Army of the Republic"? by Stuart Archer Cohen ? --- On Thu, 1/15/09, Robin Migalla wrote: From: Robin Migalla Subject: [CitizensTruth] FW: To Avoid Misunderstandings To: "citizenstruth at six.pairlist.net" Date: Thursday, January 15, 2009, 5:04 PM Hi Everyone, I'm assuming many of you are already familiar with the Downsize DC organization, so please forgive me if you've already seen this message. I liked it so much I wanted to share it. Cheers, Robin -----Original Message----- From: Downsizer Dispatch [SMTP:downsizer-dispatch at downsizedc.org] Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 10:10 To: rmigalla at earthlink.net Subject: To Avoid Misunderstandings D o w n s i z e r - D i s p a t c h |*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*| Quote of the Day: "We did not see (as a result of brain scans of partisan loyalists) any increased activation of the parts of the brain normally engaged during reasoning. What we saw instead was a network of emotion circuits lighting up, including circuits hypothesized to be involved in regulating emotion, and circuits known to be involved in resolving conflicts. None of the circuits involved in conscious reasoning were particularly engaged. Essentially, it appears as if partisans twirl the cognitive kaleidoscope until they get the conclusions they want, and then they get massively reinforced for it, with the elimination of negative emotional states and activation of positive ones . . . The result is that partisan beliefs are calcified, and the person can learn very little from new data." -- Drew Westen, Director of Clinical Psychology at Emory University Subject: To avoid partisan misunderstandings We want to be clear. DownsizeDC.org is, by law, non-partisan. But the managers of DownsizeDC.org go one step further. We are philosophically and tempermentally ANTI-partisan. We believe political parties are a problem, not a solution. Likewise, we're skeptical of politicians. Any person who thinks he or she is qualified to make decisions for others, and to coerce others to abide by those decisions, is automatically suspect in our eyes. Politicians, almost by definition, are people who feel qualified to use government coercion to manage other people's lives. We disagree with them. They aren't qualified. No one is. In our view the best a politician can do is work to limit the use of government power. These boundaries are required by the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Sadly, most politicians are too impressed with themselves to limit themselves in such a way. This fact motivates us to be both anti-partisan and anti-politician. Where most people look to parties and politicians for solutions, we favor skeptical thinking, limited, decentralized power structures, individual liberty, and personal responsibility. We prefer to deal with issues, ideas, and principles. Here's where the potential for misunderstanding arises. Most people are used to thinking in terms of parties and personalities. Thus, if we support or oppose a policy associated with a particular party or politician, some jump to the conclusion that we are being partisan -- that we're picking sides. Nothing could be further from the truth. We care about the issue, not the party or the politician. For the past four years we've opposed (and only occasionally supported) policies associated with Republicans in general, and President Bush in particular. Some have assumed from this that we're anti-Republican, anti-Bush, and pro-Democrat. Now we have the opposite problem. The Democrats have gained control of Congress and the White House. We've responded by opposing coercive Democratic proposals. As a result . . . Some people jump to the conclusion that we're anti-Democrat, anti-Obama, and pro-Republican. Again, nothing could be further from the truth. What we are, and intend to remain, is consistent. Once again, we believe all politicians, of all parties, are fundamentally unqualified to decide how other people should live. We do not believe in top-down social engineering by Republicans, Democrats, or anyone else. We believe in critical thinking, limited, decentralized power structures, individual liberty, and personal responsibility. One hallmark of critical thought is the rejection of special pleading. Special pleading is when you have one standard for yourself, and a different standard for others. Loyalty to parties and politicians lends itself to special pleading and rank hypocrisy. We believe such loyalty is inherently toxic to the mind. We think it also damages the social fabric via unnecessary culture wars. We've pointed before to brain scan studies showing that partisan loyalists experience pleasure from lying on behalf of their own party. Our "quote of the day" comes from the lead scientist in these studies. We want to protect ourselves from this kind of dishonesty and non-thinking. We do this by being loyal to our principles and nothing else. Therefore, anyone who writes to us accusing us of being anti-Democrat, anti-Obama, or pro-Republican, is mistaking us for someone else. Personally, we (the undersigned) admire Obama's intelligence and composure. We also take pleasure in the fact that an African-American family will soon occupy the White House. But . . . This won't keep us from criticizing things like his vote to legalize warrantless spying and to immunize the telecom companies that aided such spying. Neither can we endorse his eagerness to spend a trillion dollars to supposedly stimulate the economy. We opposed the stimulus package when Bush wanted it. We'll continue to oppose it now that Obama wants it. We don't do special pleading. If you believe as we do that the stimulus bill will be full of waste, corporate welfare, and favors to political interests, then please send Congress a message opposing this bill. Do it now, and keep doing it until the vote is held. You can use our quick and easy Educate the Powerful system to send your message. Then, if you really agree with this focus on principle over partisanship and cult of personality, please go to our blog, located conveniently on our home page at www.DownsizeDC.org , and "Digg" the blog version of this message. If you've never used Digg before, please, go sign up! Thank you for being a member of the growing Downsize DC Army, which allows you to particpate or not participate on individual issues, depending on your own principles. Jim Babka & Perry Willis President & Communications Director DownsizeDC.org, Inc. P.S. This Congress is still just getting started. Not all new office holders have Internet contact pages yet. We are updating our system to reflect the new Congress, just as quickly as the information comes to us. If you have one or more new elected representatives, its possible that you won't be able to get a message to them. But your message should go through to any of your representatives that remain the same, or for which we have already received new information. Don't let this transition deter you from taking action. Your message will get through to someone, and will make a difference. |*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*| D o w n s i z e r - D i s p a t c h is the official email list of DownsizeDC.org, Inc. http://www.DownsizeDC.org & Downsize DC Foundation http://www.DownsizeDC.com CONTRIBUTE to the Electronic Lobbyist project at http://www.downsizedc.org/contribute.shtml http://www.DownsizeDC.org is sponsored by DownsizeDC.org, Inc. -- a non-profit educational organization promoting the ideas of individual liberty, personal responsibility, free markets, and small government. You are encouraged to forward this message to friends and business associates, and permission is hereby granted to reproduce any items herein as long as attribution is provided for articles and the subscription instructions above are included. If you have difficulties or inquiries, simply hit reply to this message. We're eager to help, including with requests to unsubscribe. You are subscribed to this newsletter at this email address: rmigalla at earthlink.net -- If you do not want to receive any more newsletters, http://www.downsizedc.org/lists/?p=unsubscribe&uid=ea0eea35d684d2d5ea223 f0e5aa3f5a1 To update your preferences and to unsubscribe visit http://www.downsizedc.org/lists/?p=preferences&uid=ea0eea35d684d2d5ea223 f0e5aa3f5a1 -- Powered by PHPlist, www.phplist.com -- D o w n s i z e r - D i s p a t c h Quote of the Day: "We did not see (as a result of brain scans of partisan loyalists) any increased activation of the parts of the brain normally engaged during reasoning. What we saw instead was a network of emotion circuits lighting up, including circuits hypothesized to be involved in regulating emotion, and circuits known to be involved in resolving conflicts. None of the circuits involved in conscious reasoning were particularly engaged. Essentially, it appears as if partisans twirl the cognitive kaleidoscope until they get the conclusions they want, and then they get massively reinforced for it, with the elimination of negative emotional states and activation of positive ones . . . The result is that partisan beliefs are calcified, and the person can learn very little from new data." -- Drew Westen, Director of Clinical Psychology at Emory University Subject: To avoid partisan misunderstandings We want to be clear. DownsizeDC.org is, by law, non-partisan. But the managers of DownsizeDC.org go one step further. We are philosophically and tempermentally?ANTI-partisan. We believe political parties are a problem, not a solution. Likewise, we're skeptical of politicians. Any person who thinks he or she is qualified to make decisions for others, and to coerce others to abide by those decisions, is automatically suspect in our eyes. Politicians, almost by definition, are people who feel qualified to use government coercion to manage other people's lives. We disagree with them. They aren't qualified. No one is. In our view the best a politician can do is work to limit the use of government power. These boundaries are required by the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Sadly, most politicians are too impressed with themselves to limit themselves in such a way. This fact motivates us to be both anti-partisan and anti-politician. Where most people look to parties and politicians for solutions, we favor skeptical thinking, limited, decentralized power structures, individual liberty, and personal responsibility. We prefer to deal with issues, ideas, and principles.? Here's where the potential for misunderstanding arises. Most people are used to thinking in terms of parties and personalities. Thus, if we support or oppose a policy associated with a particular party or politician, some jump to the conclusion that we are being partisan -- that we're picking sides.? Nothing could be further from the truth. We care about the issue, not the party or the politician. For the past four years we've opposed (and only occasionally supported) policies associated with Republicans in general, and President Bush in particular. Some have assumed from this that we're anti-Republican, anti-Bush, and pro-Democrat. Now we have the opposite problem. The Democrats have gained control of Congress and the White House. We've responded by opposing coercive Democratic proposals. As a result . . . Some people jump to the conclusion that we're anti-Democrat, anti-Obama, and pro-Republican. Again, nothing could be further from the truth. What we are, and intend to remain, is consistent. Once again, we believe all politicians, of all parties, are fundamentally unqualified to decide how other people should live. We do not believe in top-down social engineering by Republicans, Democrats, or anyone else. We believe in critical thinking, limited, decentralized power structures, individual liberty, and personal responsibility. One hallmark of critical thought is the rejection of special pleading. Special pleading is when you have one standard for yourself, and a different standard for others. Loyalty to parties and politicians lends itself to special pleading and rank hypocrisy. We believe such loyalty is inherently toxic to the mind. We think it also damages the social fabric via unnecessary culture wars.? We've pointed before to brain scan studies showing that partisan loyalists experience pleasure from lying on behalf of their own party. Our "quote of the day" comes from the lead scientist in these studies. We want to protect ourselves from this kind of dishonesty and non-thinking. We do this by being loyal to our principles and nothing else.? Therefore, anyone who writes to us accusing us of being anti-Democrat, anti-Obama, or pro-Republican, is mistaking us for someone else. Personally, we (the undersigned) admire Obama's intelligence and composure. We also take pleasure in the fact that an African-American family will soon occupy the White House. But . . . This won't keep us from criticizing things like his vote to legalize warrantless spying and to immunize the telecom companies that aided such spying. Neither can we endorse his eagerness to spend a trillion dollars to supposedly stimulate the economy. We opposed the stimulus package when Bush wanted it. We'll continue to oppose it now that Obama wants it. We don't do special pleading. If you believe as we do that the stimulus bill will be full of waste, corporate welfare, and favors to political interests, then please send Congress a message opposing this bill. Do it now, and keep doing it until the vote is held. You can use our quick and easy Educate the Powerful system to send your message.?? Then, if you?really agree with this focus on principle over partisanship and?cult of personality, please go to our blog, located conveniently on our home page at www.DownsizeDC.org, and "Digg" the blog version of this message. If you've never used Digg before, please, go sign up! Thank you for being a member of the growing Downsize DC Army, which allows you to particpate or not participate on individual issues, depending on your own principles. Jim Babka & Perry Willis President & Communications Director DownsizeDC.org, Inc. P.S.? This Congress is still just getting started. Not all new office holders have Internet contact pages yet. We are updating our system to reflect the new Congress, just as quickly as the information comes to us. If you have one or more new elected representatives, its possible that you won't be able to get a message to them. But your message should go through to any of your representatives that remain the same, or for which we have already received new information. Don't let this transition deter you from taking action. Your message will get through to someone, and will make a difference. D o w n s i z e r - D i s p a t c h is the official email list of DownsizeDC.org, Inc. & Downsize DC Foundation CONTRIBUTE to the Electronic Lobbyist project http://www.DownsizeDC.org is sponsored by DownsizeDC.org, Inc. -- a non-profit educational organization promoting the ideas of individual liberty, personal responsibility, free markets, and small government. You are encouraged to forward this message to friends and business associates, and permission is hereby granted to reproduce any items herein as long as attribution is provided for articles and the subscription instructions above are included. IF you have difficulties or inquiries, simply hit reply to this message. We're eager to help, including with requests to unsubscribe. You are subscribed to this newsletter at this email address: rmigalla at earthlink.net -- If you do not want to receive any more newsletters, this link To update your preferences and to unsubscribe visit this link _______________________________________________ CitizensTruth mailing list CitizensTruth at six.pairlist.net http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/citizenstruth website: http://citizenstruth.info -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mjkirk12 at yahoo.com Fri Jan 16 14:43:31 2009 From: mjkirk12 at yahoo.com (Mike Kirk) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 11:43:31 -0800 (PST) Subject: [CitizensTruth] FW: To Avoid Misunderstandings In-Reply-To: <462713.46594.qm@web36903.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <638969.36921.qm@web83806.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> The purpose of government (per the Bill of Rights) is to protect individual liberties - which the DownsizeDC group advocates.? They believe:? less government -> less regulations -> more individual liberty However, without government regulations against corporate fraud and other crimes we have:? less government -> less regulations -> more corporate fraud and misconduct. Lack of enforcement is a problem also. Finding the right balance is the key. ? Downsize DC advocated de-centralized power - so that corporate lobbyists and special interest groups have a harder time 'buying votes' and influencing legistation to benefit themselves at the expense of 'we the people'.? The coercive power of government should not be directed toward regulating individual behavior, but to protecting the rights of the individual against fraud perpetrated by these corporations and special interest groups.? Government should be the advocate of the individual - exposing fraud and misconduct.? Instead what we get with Bush (and likely with Obama), is government assisting the corporations and special interests --- passing the costs onto the people. -Mike --- On Thu, 1/15/09, Chuck Minne wrote: From: Chuck Minne Subject: Re: [CitizensTruth] FW: To Avoid Misunderstandings To: "citizenstruth at six.pairlist.net" Date: Thursday, January 15, 2009, 5:34 PM While I am not in favor of big government per se, I am very leery of those who preach downsize, for those are often code words for "de-regulate." ? Capitalism is based on greed with not altruistic motives whatsoever. And while I believe that performance should be rewarded and even well rewarded, I believe that capitalism must be very strictly regulated. And in some cases lots of regulation means lots of government. ? We obviously need regulation in almost every endeavor, especially health, energy, environment, military, intelligence, and, oh, hell, the list goes on forever. ? For those of you who missed the 60 Minutes show on Oil Speculation, you can see and/or read it here: ? http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/01/08/60minutes/main4707770.shtml?tag=topStory;topStoryHeadline ? ? Here is a quote from that show, I think it points out the need for regulation; so I am not so sure about those who preach "downsizing," - they are too Enron-like for my taste. (BTW all the Enron papers were destroyed in WTC7, so there was no prosecution.): ? ? ? Asked who was buying this "paper oil," Masters told Kroft, "The California pension fund. Harvard Endowment. Lots of large institutional investors. And, by the way, other investors, hedge funds, Wall Street trading desks were following right behind them, putting money - sovereign wealth funds were putting money in the futures markets as well. So you had all these investors putting money in the futures markets. And that was driving the price up." ? ????In a five year period, Masters said the amount of money institutional investors, hedge funds, and the big Wall Street banks had placed in the commodities markets went from $13 billion to $300 billion. Last year, 27 barrels of crude were being traded every day on the New York Mercantile Exchange for every one barrel of oil that was actually being consumed in the United States. ? ????"We talked to the largest physical trader of crude oil. And they told us that compared to the size of the investment inflows - and remember, this is the largest physical crude oil trader in the United States - they said that we are basically a flea on an elephant, that that's how big these flows were," Masters remembered. later: ?"Who was responsible for deregulating the oil future market?" Kroft asked Michael Greenberger. ? ????"You'd have to say Enron," he replied. "This was something they desperately wanted, and they got." ? ????Greenberger, who wanted more regulation while he was at the Commodity Futures Trading Commission, not less, says it all happened when Enron was the seventh largest corporation in the United States. "This was when Enron was riding high. And what Enron wanted, Enron got." ? ????Asked why they wanted a deregulated market in oil futures, Greenberger said, "Because they wanted to establish their own little energy futures exchange through computerized trading. They knew that if they could get this trading engine established without the controls that had been placed on speculators, they would have the ability to drive the price of energy products in any way they wanted to take it." ? ????"When Enron failed, we learned that Enron, and its conspirators who used their trading engine, were able to drive the price of electricity up, some say, by as much as 300 percent on the West Coast," he added. ? ????"Is the same thing going on right now in the oil business?" Kroft asked. ? "Every Enron trader, who knew how to do these manipulations, became the most valuable employee on Wall Street," Greenberger said ? ? "I have lost faith, godammit! I put my faith in the People and that was a mistake! This is a shit people! They get stolen blind by their politicians and they lick their boots. They send their kids off to die for somebody's business deal and they celebrate it like they're doing something heroic! This great and glorious people! Lazy sacks of junk food and jingo!" ? From: "The Army of the Republic"? by Stuart Archer Cohen ? --- On Thu, 1/15/09, Robin Migalla wrote: From: Robin Migalla Subject: [CitizensTruth] FW: To Avoid Misunderstandings To: "citizenstruth at six.pairlist.net" Date: Thursday, January 15, 2009, 5:04 PM Hi Everyone, I'm assuming many of you are already familiar with the Downsize DC organization, so please forgive me if you've already seen this message. I liked it so much I wanted to share it. Cheers, Robin -----Original Message----- From: Downsizer Dispatch [SMTP:downsizer-dispatch at downsizedc.org] Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 10:10 To: rmigalla at earthlink.net Subject: To Avoid Misunderstandings D o w n s i z e r - D i s p a t c h |*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*| Quote of the Day: "We did not see (as a result of brain scans of partisan loyalists) any increased activation of the parts of the brain normally engaged during reasoning. What we saw instead was a network of emotion circuits lighting up, including circuits hypothesized to be involved in regulating emotion, and circuits known to be involved in resolving conflicts. None of the circuits involved in conscious reasoning were particularly engaged. Essentially, it appears as if partisans twirl the cognitive kaleidoscope until they get the conclusions they want, and then they get massively reinforced for it, with the elimination of negative emotional states and activation of positive ones . . . The result is that partisan beliefs are calcified, and the person can learn very little from new data." -- Drew Westen, Director of Clinical Psychology at Emory University Subject: To avoid partisan misunderstandings We want to be clear. DownsizeDC.org is, by law, non-partisan. But the managers of DownsizeDC.org go one step further. We are philosophically and tempermentally ANTI-partisan. We believe political parties are a problem, not a solution. Likewise, we're skeptical of politicians. Any person who thinks he or she is qualified to make decisions for others, and to coerce others to abide by those decisions, is automatically suspect in our eyes. Politicians, almost by definition, are people who feel qualified to use government coercion to manage other people's lives. We disagree with them. They aren't qualified. No one is. In our view the best a politician can do is work to limit the use of government power. These boundaries are required by the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Sadly, most politicians are too impressed with themselves to limit themselves in such a way. This fact motivates us to be both anti-partisan and anti-politician. Where most people look to parties and politicians for solutions, we favor skeptical thinking, limited, decentralized power structures, individual liberty, and personal responsibility. We prefer to deal with issues, ideas, and principles. Here's where the potential for misunderstanding arises. Most people are used to thinking in terms of parties and personalities. Thus, if we support or oppose a policy associated with a particular party or politician, some jump to the conclusion that we are being partisan -- that we're picking sides. Nothing could be further from the truth. We care about the issue, not the party or the politician. For the past four years we've opposed (and only occasionally supported) policies associated with Republicans in general, and President Bush in particular. Some have assumed from this that we're anti-Republican, anti-Bush, and pro-Democrat. Now we have the opposite problem. The Democrats have gained control of Congress and the White House. We've responded by opposing coercive Democratic proposals. As a result . . . Some people jump to the conclusion that we're anti-Democrat, anti-Obama, and pro-Republican. Again, nothing could be further from the truth. What we are, and intend to remain, is consistent. Once again, we believe all politicians, of all parties, are fundamentally unqualified to decide how other people should live. We do not believe in top-down social engineering by Republicans, Democrats, or anyone else. We believe in critical thinking, limited, decentralized power structures, individual liberty, and personal responsibility. One hallmark of critical thought is the rejection of special pleading. Special pleading is when you have one standard for yourself, and a different standard for others. Loyalty to parties and politicians lends itself to special pleading and rank hypocrisy. We believe such loyalty is inherently toxic to the mind. We think it also damages the social fabric via unnecessary culture wars. We've pointed before to brain scan studies showing that partisan loyalists experience pleasure from lying on behalf of their own party. Our "quote of the day" comes from the lead scientist in these studies. We want to protect ourselves from this kind of dishonesty and non-thinking. We do this by being loyal to our principles and nothing else. Therefore, anyone who writes to us accusing us of being anti-Democrat, anti-Obama, or pro-Republican, is mistaking us for someone else. Personally, we (the undersigned) admire Obama's intelligence and composure. We also take pleasure in the fact that an African-American family will soon occupy the White House. But . . . This won't keep us from criticizing things like his vote to legalize warrantless spying and to immunize the telecom companies that aided such spying. Neither can we endorse his eagerness to spend a trillion dollars to supposedly stimulate the economy. We opposed the stimulus package when Bush wanted it. We'll continue to oppose it now that Obama wants it. We don't do special pleading. If you believe as we do that the stimulus bill will be full of waste, corporate welfare, and favors to political interests, then please send Congress a message opposing this bill. Do it now, and keep doing it until the vote is held. You can use our quick and easy Educate the Powerful system to send your message. Then, if you really agree with this focus on principle over partisanship and cult of personality, please go to our blog, located conveniently on our home page at www.DownsizeDC.org , and "Digg" the blog version of this message. If you've never used Digg before, please, go sign up! Thank you for being a member of the growing Downsize DC Army, which allows you to particpate or not participate on individual issues, depending on your own principles. Jim Babka & Perry Willis President & Communications Director DownsizeDC.org, Inc. P.S. This Congress is still just getting started. Not all new office holders have Internet contact pages yet. We are updating our system to reflect the new Congress, just as quickly as the information comes to us. If you have one or more new elected representatives, its possible that you won't be able to get a message to them. But your message should go through to any of your representatives that remain the same, or for which we have already received new information. Don't let this transition deter you from taking action. Your message will get through to someone, and will make a difference. |*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*| D o w n s i z e r - D i s p a t c h is the official email list of DownsizeDC.org, Inc. http://www.DownsizeDC.org & Downsize DC Foundation http://www.DownsizeDC.com CONTRIBUTE to the Electronic Lobbyist project at http://www.downsizedc.org/contribute.shtml http://www.DownsizeDC.org is sponsored by DownsizeDC.org, Inc. -- a non-profit educational organization promoting the ideas of individual liberty, personal responsibility, free markets, and small government. You are encouraged to forward this message to friends and business associates, and permission is hereby granted to reproduce any items herein as long as attribution is provided for articles and the subscription instructions above are included. If you have difficulties or inquiries, simply hit reply to this message. We're eager to help, including with requests to unsubscribe. You are subscribed to this newsletter at this email address: rmigalla at earthlink.net -- If you do not want to receive any more newsletters, http://www.downsizedc.org/lists/?p=unsubscribe&uid=ea0eea35d684d2d5ea223 f0e5aa3f5a1 To update your preferences and to unsubscribe visit http://www.downsizedc.org/lists/?p=preferences&uid=ea0eea35d684d2d5ea223 f0e5aa3f5a1 -- Powered by PHPlist, www.phplist.com -- D o w n s i z e r - D i s p a t c h Quote of the Day: "We did not see (as a result of brain scans of partisan loyalists) any increased activation of the parts of the brain normally engaged during reasoning. What we saw instead was a network of emotion circuits lighting up, including circuits hypothesized to be involved in regulating emotion, and circuits known to be involved in resolving conflicts. None of the circuits involved in conscious reasoning were particularly engaged. Essentially, it appears as if partisans twirl the cognitive kaleidoscope until they get the conclusions they want, and then they get massively reinforced for it, with the elimination of negative emotional states and activation of positive ones . . . The result is that partisan beliefs are calcified, and the person can learn very little from new data." -- Drew Westen, Director of Clinical Psychology at Emory University Subject: To avoid partisan misunderstandings We want to be clear. DownsizeDC.org is, by law, non-partisan. But the managers of DownsizeDC.org go one step further. We are philosophically and tempermentally?ANTI-partisan. We believe political parties are a problem, not a solution. Likewise, we're skeptical of politicians. Any person who thinks he or she is qualified to make decisions for others, and to coerce others to abide by those decisions, is automatically suspect in our eyes. Politicians, almost by definition, are people who feel qualified to use government coercion to manage other people's lives. We disagree with them. They aren't qualified. No one is. In our view the best a politician can do is work to limit the use of government power. These boundaries are required by the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Sadly, most politicians are too impressed with themselves to limit themselves in such a way. This fact motivates us to be both anti-partisan and anti-politician. Where most people look to parties and politicians for solutions, we favor skeptical thinking, limited, decentralized power structures, individual liberty, and personal responsibility. We prefer to deal with issues, ideas, and principles.? Here's where the potential for misunderstanding arises. Most people are used to thinking in terms of parties and personalities. Thus, if we support or oppose a policy associated with a particular party or politician, some jump to the conclusion that we are being partisan -- that we're picking sides.? Nothing could be further from the truth. We care about the issue, not the party or the politician. For the past four years we've opposed (and only occasionally supported) policies associated with Republicans in general, and President Bush in particular. Some have assumed from this that we're anti-Republican, anti-Bush, and pro-Democrat. Now we have the opposite problem. The Democrats have gained control of Congress and the White House. We've responded by opposing coercive Democratic proposals. As a result . . . Some people jump to the conclusion that we're anti-Democrat, anti-Obama, and pro-Republican. Again, nothing could be further from the truth. What we are, and intend to remain, is consistent. Once again, we believe all politicians, of all parties, are fundamentally unqualified to decide how other people should live. We do not believe in top-down social engineering by Republicans, Democrats, or anyone else. We believe in critical thinking, limited, decentralized power structures, individual liberty, and personal responsibility. One hallmark of critical thought is the rejection of special pleading. Special pleading is when you have one standard for yourself, and a different standard for others. Loyalty to parties and politicians lends itself to special pleading and rank hypocrisy. We believe such loyalty is inherently toxic to the mind. We think it also damages the social fabric via unnecessary culture wars.? We've pointed before to brain scan studies showing that partisan loyalists experience pleasure from lying on behalf of their own party. Our "quote of the day" comes from the lead scientist in these studies. We want to protect ourselves from this kind of dishonesty and non-thinking. We do this by being loyal to our principles and nothing else.? Therefore, anyone who writes to us accusing us of being anti-Democrat, anti-Obama, or pro-Republican, is mistaking us for someone else. Personally, we (the undersigned) admire Obama's intelligence and composure. We also take pleasure in the fact that an African-American family will soon occupy the White House. But . . . This won't keep us from criticizing things like his vote to legalize warrantless spying and to immunize the telecom companies that aided such spying. Neither can we endorse his eagerness to spend a trillion dollars to supposedly stimulate the economy. We opposed the stimulus package when Bush wanted it. We'll continue to oppose it now that Obama wants it. We don't do special pleading. If you believe as we do that the stimulus bill will be full of waste, corporate welfare, and favors to political interests, then please send Congress a message opposing this bill. Do it now, and keep doing it until the vote is held. You can use our quick and easy Educate the Powerful system to send your message.?? Then, if you?really agree with this focus on principle over partisanship and?cult of personality, please go to our blog, located conveniently on our home page at www.DownsizeDC.org, and "Digg" the blog version of this message. If you've never used Digg before, please, go sign up! Thank you for being a member of the growing Downsize DC Army, which allows you to particpate or not participate on individual issues, depending on your own principles. Jim Babka & Perry Willis President & Communications Director DownsizeDC.org, Inc. P.S.? This Congress is still just getting started. Not all new office holders have Internet contact pages yet. We are updating our system to reflect the new Congress, just as quickly as the information comes to us. If you have one or more new elected representatives, its possible that you won't be able to get a message to them. But your message should go through to any of your representatives that remain the same, or for which we have already received new information. Don't let this transition deter you from taking action. Your message will get through to someone, and will make a difference. D o w n s i z e r - D i s p a t c h is the official email list of DownsizeDC.org, Inc. & Downsize DC Foundation CONTRIBUTE to the Electronic Lobbyist project http://www.DownsizeDC.org is sponsored by DownsizeDC.org, Inc. -- a non-profit educational organization promoting the ideas of individual liberty, personal responsibility, free markets, and small government. You are encouraged to forward this message to friends and business associates, and permission is hereby granted to reproduce any items herein as long as attribution is provided for articles and the subscription instructions above are included. IF you have difficulties or inquiries, simply hit reply to this message. We're eager to help, including with requests to unsubscribe. You are subscribed to this newsletter at this email address: rmigalla at earthlink.net -- If you do not want to receive any more newsletters, this link To update your preferences and to unsubscribe visit this link _______________________________________________ CitizensTruth mailing list CitizensTruth at six.pairlist.net http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/citizenstruth website: http://citizenstruth.info _______________________________________________ CitizensTruth mailing list CitizensTruth at six.pairlist.net http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/citizenstruth website: http://citizenstruth.info -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From futurenotwritten at yahoo.com Fri Jan 16 18:40:17 2009 From: futurenotwritten at yahoo.com (Jay Becker) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 15:40:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: [CitizensTruth] Protest in Atlanta: Rick Warren at Ebenezer Baptist! Message-ID: <821723.35570.qm@web33507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hey, if you know anyone in the Atlanta area, please forward. The bigot Warren is building on the platform given him by Obama's invitation to give the inaugural invocation and now he's speaking at Ebenezer Baptist, Martin Luther King's church, on MLK Day. This is an outrageous slap in the face (or worse, really) to the LGBT community, to women, and to all of us that should be strongly protested. Jay www.worldcantwait.org (Frequent and regular updates, articles from a range of writers, events etc.) ? You are missing out: If you are not on WCW national sub-list Sign up @ www.worldcantwait.org World Can?t Wait Atlanta: atlanta at worldcantwait.org *********************************** Please help distribute this protest info widely! ? PROTEST RICK WARREN Monday, January 19th, 9AM Ebenezer Baptist Church (Corner of Auburn Ave. and Jackson Street) ? YOUR GOVERNMENT enforces a culture of greed, bigotry, intolerance and ignorance. YOUR GOVERNMENT is moving each day closer to a theocracy, where a narrow and hateful brand of Christian fundamentalism will rule. Rick Warren is a Biblical literalist. Just as some used the Bible to defend slavery, Rick Warren uses the Bible to promote hate and discrimination against gays and lesbians. He backed Proposition 8, a California constitutional amendment to ban same-sex marriages, and equates homosexuality with pedophilia and incest. He upholds war and capital punishment while declaring abortion as murder and promotes women?s subservience to men. Rick Warren is the keynote speaker for the MLK Day commemoration at Ebenezer, and to deliver the invocation at Barack Obama's inauguration. ?This is outrageous!? Seeking ?common ground? with hateful bigots is unacceptable! As the World Can?t Wait Call says, ?That which you will not resist and mobilize to stop ? you will learn or be forced to accept.? www.worldcantwait.org???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? atlanta at worldcantwait.org ? The World Can?t Wait Atlanta is working with many other groups that are organizing to protest Rick Warren, Atlanta Black LGBT coalition, GLBT Atl, SPARK Reproductive Justice, Georgia Equality, TILTT and others.? Bring signs, banners, yourself, friends, and pass this on to your list serves and blogs.? Don?t sit at home and scream at your TV, no one can hear you,j oin with others in the streets! ************************************** Discussion with Sunsara Taylor NO ?Common Ground? with Bigot Rick Warren Sunday, January 18, 3pm-5pm ? Revolution Books Outlet Atlanta 1087 Euclid Ave. (inside the Four Corners Market, in little 5 points) Atlanta, GA ? The pick of Rick Warren to deliver the keynote speech on MLK Day has angered many progressive people. Warren was a leading voice in the fight to take away gay people's right to marry in California, he has compared abortion to the Nazi Holocaust, and he is a biblical literalist who denies evolution. Warren?s appearance on MLK Day adds to the controversy generated by Barack Obama?s invitation to Warren to deliver the invocation at his inauguration on Tuesday. ? ?This whole ?common ground? approach just lends legitimacy to and normalizes Warren's deadly religious bigotry. Standing on this ?common ground? is leading progressive people who genuinely care about women, gays, science, and AIDS in Africa to capitulate, to give up principle, and to accept things that they never would've accepted from someone like Pat Robertson or George Bush.? >From Sunsara Taylor?s article in the current issue of Revolution newspaper. Read the full article at revcom.us, and come join the discussion on Sunday! ? Sunsara Taylor writes for Revolution newspaper and sits on the Advisory Board of World Can?t Wait. Her coverage of the rise of Christian fascism has taken her to defend abortion clinics across the country, and inside the stadiums of the BattleCry movement who train Christian youth shock troops. She has had impressive verbal battles with Bill O?Reilly and Sean Hannity on Fox News and held many thoughtful interviews with reality-based radio hosts around the country. Sunsara co-hosts the WBAI (Pacifica) radio program ?Equal Time for Free Thought.? She has recently been on a college campus tour promoting Bob Avakian?s book Away With All Gods! Unchaining the Mind and Radically Changing the World. ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From geri at thetwofacesofmoney.com Sat Jan 17 13:31:48 2009 From: geri at thetwofacesofmoney.com (Geri Perry) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 12:31:48 -0600 Subject: [CitizensTruth] FW: To Avoid Misunderstandings In-Reply-To: <462713.46594.qm@web36903.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <462713.46594.qm@web36903.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <49722414.5050003@thetwofacesofmoney.com> Well.... It can be argued, as I do in Part I of my book The Two Faces of Money, that "administrative law" is part of the sovereign power structure that surrounds the Federal Reserve System. For those who have my book, a good quote on page 61 sums up the issue and need for said "power structure" - which basically begins and ends with "democratic money" - NOT capitalism. Otherwise, read this page for an overview of the problem and possible solutions: http://www.thetwofacesofmoney.com/index.php/Site/AWordAboutCorporations gerip Chuck Minne wrote: > > While I am not in favor of big government per se, I am very leery of > those who preach downsize, for those are often code words for > "de-regulate." > > Capitalism is based on greed with not altruistic motives whatsoever. > And while I believe that performance should be rewarded and even well > rewarded, I believe that capitalism must be very strictly regulated. > And in some cases lots of regulation means lots of government. > > We obviously need regulation in almost every endeavor, especially > health, energy, environment, military, intelligence, and, oh, hell, > the list goes on forever. > > For those of you who missed the 60 Minutes show on Oil Speculation, > you can see and/or read it here: > > http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/01/08/60minutes/main4707770.shtml?tag=topStory;topStoryHeadline > > > Here is a quote from that show, I think it points out the need for > regulation; so I am not so sure about those who preach "downsizing," - > they are too Enron-like for my taste. (BTW all the Enron papers were > destroyed in WTC7, so there was no prosecution.): > > > > Asked who was buying this "paper oil," Masters told Kroft, "The > California pension fund. Harvard Endowment. Lots of large > institutional investors. And, by the way, other investors, hedge funds > , > Wall Street trading desks were following right behind them, putting > money - sovereign wealth funds were putting money in the futures > markets as well. So you had all these investors putting money in the > futures markets. And that was driving the price up." > > In a five year period, Masters said the amount of money > institutional investors, hedge funds, and the big Wall Street banks > had placed in the commodities markets went from $13 billion to $300 > billion. *Last year, 27 barrels of crude were being traded every day > on the New York Mercantile Exchange for every one barrel of oil that > was actually being consumed in the United States.* > > "We talked to the *largest physical trader of crude oil*. And they > told us that compared to the size of the investment inflows - and > remember, this is the largest physical crude oil trader in the United > States - *they said that we are basically a flea on an elephant*, that > that's how big these flows were," Masters remembered. > > > later: > > "Who was responsible for deregulating the oil future market?" Kroft > asked Michael Greenberger. > > "You'd have to say Enron," he replied. "This was something they > desperately wanted, and they got." > > > Greenberger, who wanted more regulation while he was at the > Commodity Futures Trading > > Commission, not less, says it all happened when Enron was the seventh > largest corporation in the United States. > "This was when Enron was riding high. And what Enron wanted, Enron got." > > Asked why they wanted a deregulated market in oil futures, > Greenberger said, "Because they wanted to establish their own little > energy futures exchange through computerized trading. They knew that > if they could get this trading engine established without the controls > that had been placed on speculators, they would have the ability to > drive the price of energy products in any way they wanted to take it." > > "When Enron failed, we learned that Enron, and its conspirators > who used their trading engine, were able to drive the price of > electricity up, some say, by as much as 300 percent on the West > Coast," he added. > > "Is the same thing going on right now in the oil business?" Kroft > asked. > > *"Every Enron trader, who knew how to do these manipulations, became > the most valuable employee on Wall Street," Greenberger said* > > > "I have lost faith, godammit! I put my faith in the People and that > was a mistake! This is a shit people! They get stolen blind by their > politicians and they lick their boots. They send their kids off to die > for somebody's business deal and they celebrate it like they're doing > something heroic! This great and glorious people! Lazy sacks of junk > food and jingo!" > > From: "The Army of the Republic" by Stuart Archer Cohen > > > > --- On *Thu, 1/15/09, Robin Migalla //* wrote: > > From: Robin Migalla > Subject: [CitizensTruth] FW: To Avoid Misunderstandings > To: "citizenstruth at six.pairlist.net" > Date: Thursday, January 15, 2009, 5:04 PM > > Hi Everyone, > > I'm assuming many of you are already familiar with the Downsize DC > organization, so please forgive me if you've already seen this message. I > liked it so much I wanted to share it. > > Cheers, > Robin > > -----Original Message----- > From: Downsizer Dispatch [SMTP:downsizer-dispatch at downsizedc.org] > Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 10:10 > To: rmigalla at earthlink.net > Subject: To Avoid Misunderstandings > > > D o w n s i z e r - D i s p a t c h > > |*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*| > > Quote of the Day: "We did not see (as a result of brain scans of > partisan loyalists) any increased activation of the parts of the > brain normally engaged during reasoning. What we saw instead was a > network of emotion circuits lighting up, including circuits > hypothesized to be involved in regulating emotion, and circuits known > to be involved in resolving conflicts. None of the circuits involved > in conscious reasoning were particularly engaged. Essentially, it > appears as if partisans twirl the cognitive kaleidoscope until they > get the conclusions they want, and then they get massively reinforced > for it, with the elimination of negative emotional states and > activation of positive ones . . . The result is that partisan beliefs > are calcified, and the person can learn very little from new data." > > -- Drew Westen, Director of Clinical Psychology at Emory University > > > Subject: To avoid partisan misunderstandings > > We want to be clear. DownsizeDC.org is, by law, non-partisan. But the > managers of DownsizeDC.org go one step further. We are philosophically > and tempermentally ANTI-partisan. We believe political parties are a > problem, not a solution. > > Likewise, we're skeptical of politicians. Any person who thinks he or > she is qualified to make decisions for others, and to coerce others to > abide by those decisions, is automatically suspect in our eyes. > Politicians, almost by definition, are people who feel qualified to > use government coercion to manage other people's lives. > > We disagree with them. They aren't qualified. No one is. > > In our view the best a politician can do is work to limit the use of > government power. These boundaries are required by the Constitution > and the Bill of Rights. Sadly, most politicians are too impressed > with themselves to limit themselves in such a way. > > This fact motivates us to be both anti-partisan and anti-politician. > > Where most people look to parties and politicians for solutions, we > favor skeptical thinking, limited, decentralized power structures, > individual liberty, and personal responsibility. We prefer to deal > with issues, ideas, and principles. > > Here's where the potential for misunderstanding arises. Most people > are used to thinking in terms of parties and personalities. Thus, if > we support or oppose a policy associated with a particular party or > politician, some jump to the conclusion that we are being partisan -- > that we're picking sides. > > Nothing could be further from the truth. We care about the issue, not > the party or the politician. > > For the past four years we've opposed (and only occasionally > supported) policies associated with Republicans in general, and > President Bush in particular. Some have assumed from this that we're > anti-Republican, anti-Bush, and pro-Democrat. > > Now we have the opposite problem. The Democrats have gained control > of Congress and the White House. We've responded by opposing coercive > Democratic proposals. As a result . . . > > Some people jump to the conclusion that we're anti-Democrat, > anti-Obama, and pro-Republican. Again, nothing could be further from > the truth. > > What we are, and intend to remain, is consistent. > > Once again, we believe all politicians, of all parties, are > fundamentally unqualified to decide how other people should live. We > do not believe in top-down social engineering by Republicans, > Democrats, or anyone else. We believe in critical thinking, limited, > decentralized power structures, individual liberty, and personal > responsibility. > > One hallmark of critical thought is the rejection of special > pleading. Special pleading is when you have one standard for > yourself, and a different standard for others. Loyalty to parties and > politicians lends itself to special pleading and rank hypocrisy. We > believe such loyalty is inherently toxic to the mind. We think it > also damages the social fabric via unnecessary culture wars. > > We've pointed before to brain scan studies showing that partisan > loyalists experience pleasure from lying on behalf of their own > party. Our "quote of the day" comes from the lead scientist in these > studies. We want to protect ourselves from this kind of dishonesty > and non-thinking. > > We do this by being loyal to our principles and nothing else. > > Therefore, anyone who writes to us accusing us of being > anti-Democrat, anti-Obama, or pro-Republican, is mistaking us for > someone else. > > Personally, we (the undersigned) admire Obama's intelligence and > composure. We also take pleasure in the fact that an African-American > family will soon occupy the White House. But . . . > > This won't keep us from criticizing things like his vote to legalize > warrantless spying and to immunize the telecom companies that aided > such spying. Neither can we endorse his eagerness to spend a trillion > dollars to supposedly stimulate the economy. > > We opposed the stimulus package when Bush wanted it. We'll continue > to oppose it now that Obama wants it. We don't do special pleading. > > If you believe as we do that the stimulus bill will be full of waste, > corporate welfare, and favors to political interests, then please send > Congress a message opposing this bill. Do it now, and keep doing it > until the vote is held. You can use our quick and easy Educate the > Powerful system to send your message. > > > Then, if you really agree with this focus on principle over > partisanship and cult of personality, please go to our blog, located > conveniently on our home page at www.DownsizeDC.org > > , and "Digg" the blog version of this message. If you've never > used > Digg before, please, go sign up! > > Thank you for being a member of the growing Downsize DC Army, which > allows you to particpate or not participate on individual issues, > depending on your own principles. > > Jim Babka & Perry Willis > > President & Communications Director > > DownsizeDC.org, Inc. > > P.S. This Congress is still just getting started. Not all new office > holders have Internet contact pages yet. We are updating our system > to reflect the new Congress, just as quickly as the information comes > to us. If you have one or more new elected representatives, its > possible that you won't be able to get a message to them. But your > message should go through to any of your representatives that remain > the same, or for which we have already received new information. > Don't let this transition deter you from taking action. Your message > will get through to someone, and will make a difference. > > > > |*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*| > > D o w n s i z e r - D i s p a t c h > is the official email list of DownsizeDC.org, Inc. > http://www.DownsizeDC.org > & > Downsize DC Foundation > http://www.DownsizeDC.com > > CONTRIBUTE to the Electronic Lobbyist project at > http://www.downsizedc.org/contribute.shtml > > http://www.DownsizeDC.org is sponsored by DownsizeDC.org, Inc. -- a > non-profit educational organization promoting the ideas of individual > liberty, personal responsibility, free markets, and small government. > > You are encouraged to forward this message to friends and business > associates, and permission is hereby granted to reproduce any items herein > as long as attribution is provided for articles and the subscription > instructions above are included. > > If you have difficulties or inquiries, simply hit reply to this message. > We're eager to help, including with requests to unsubscribe. > > You are subscribed to this newsletter at this email address: > rmigalla at earthlink.net > > -- > If you do not want to receive any more newsletters, > http://www.downsizedc.org/lists/?p=unsubscribe&uid=ea0eea35d684d2d5ea223 > f0e5aa3f5a1 > > To update your preferences and to unsubscribe visit > http://www.downsizedc.org/lists/?p=preferences&uid=ea0eea35d684d2d5ea223 > f0e5aa3f5a1 > > > > -- > Powered by PHPlist, www.phplist.com -- > > > > > *D o w n s i z e r - D i s p a t c h* > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *Quote of the Day:* "We did not see (as a result of brain scans of > partisan loyalists) any increased activation of the parts of the > brain normally engaged during reasoning. What we saw instead was a > network of emotion circuits lighting up, including circuits > hypothesized to be involved in regulating emotion, and circuits > known to be involved in resolving conflicts. None of the circuits > involved in conscious reasoning were particularly engaged. > Essentially, it appears as if partisans twirl the cognitive > kaleidoscope until they get the conclusions they want, and then > they get massively reinforced for it, with the elimination of > negative emotional states and activation of positive ones . . . > The result is that partisan beliefs are calcified, and the person > can learn very little from new data." > -- Drew Westen, Director of Clinical Psychology at Emory > University > *Subject: To avoid partisan misunderstandings* > We want to be clear. DownsizeDC.org is, by law, non-partisan. But > the managers of DownsizeDC.org go one step further. We are > philosophically and tempermentally ANTI-partisan. We believe > political parties are a problem, not a solution. > Likewise, we're skeptical of politicians. Any person who thinks he > or she is qualified to make decisions for others, and to coerce > others to abide by those decisions, is automatically suspect in > our eyes. Politicians, almost by definition, are people who feel > qualified to use government coercion to manage other people's lives. > We disagree with them. They aren't qualified. No one is. > In our view the best a politician can do is work to limit the use > of government power. These boundaries are required by the > Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Sadly, most politicians are > too impressed with themselves to limit themselves in such a way. > This fact motivates us to be both anti-partisan and anti-politician. > Where most people look to parties and politicians for solutions, > we favor skeptical thinking, limited, decentralized power > structures, individual liberty, and personal responsibility. We > prefer to deal with issues, ideas, and principles. > Here's where the potential for misunderstanding arises. Most > people are used to thinking in terms of parties and personalities. > Thus, if we support or oppose a policy associated with a > particular party or politician, some jump to the conclusion that > we are being partisan -- that we're picking sides. > Nothing could be further from the truth. We care about the issue, > not the party or the politician. > For the past four years we've opposed (and only occasionally > supported) policies associated with Republicans in general, and > President Bush in particular. Some have assumed from this that > we're anti-Republican, anti-Bush, and pro-Democrat. > Now we have the opposite problem. The Democrats have gained > control of Congress and the White House. We've responded by > opposing coercive Democratic proposals. As a result . . . > Some people jump to the conclusion that we're anti-Democrat, > anti-Obama, and pro-Republican. Again, nothing could be further > from the truth. > What we are, and intend to remain, is consistent. > Once again, we believe all politicians, of all parties, are > fundamentally unqualified to decide how other people should live. > We do not believe in top-down social engineering by Republicans, > Democrats, or anyone else. We believe in critical thinking, > limited, decentralized power structures, individual liberty, and > personal responsibility. > One hallmark of critical thought is the rejection of special > pleading. Special pleading is when you have one standard for > yourself, and a different standard for others. Loyalty to parties > and politicians lends itself to special pleading and rank > hypocrisy. We believe such loyalty is inherently toxic to the > mind. We think it also damages the social fabric via unnecessary > culture wars. > We've pointed before to brain scan studies showing that partisan > loyalists experience pleasure from lying on behalf of their own > party. Our "quote of the day" comes from the lead scientist in > these studies. We want to protect ourselves from this kind of > dishonesty and non-thinking. > We do this by being loyal to our principles and nothing else. > Therefore, anyone who writes to us accusing us of being > anti-Democrat, anti-Obama, or pro-Republican, is mistaking us for > someone else. > Personally, we (the undersigned) admire Obama's intelligence and > composure. We also take pleasure in the fact that an > African-American family will soon occupy the White House. But . . . > This won't keep us from criticizing things like his vote to > legalize warrantless spying and to immunize the telecom companies > that aided such spying. Neither can we endorse his eagerness to > spend a trillion dollars to supposedly stimulate the economy. > We opposed the stimulus package when Bush wanted it. We'll > continue to oppose it now that Obama wants it. We don't do special > pleading. > If you believe as we do that the stimulus bill will be full of > waste, corporate welfare, and favors to political interests, then > please send Congress a message opposing this bill. Do it now, and > keep doing it until the vote is held. You can use our quick and > easy Educate the Powerful system to send your message. > > Then, if you really agree with this focus on principle over > partisanship and cult of personality, please go to our blog, > located conveniently on our home page at www.DownsizeDC.org > , and "Digg" the blog version of this > message. If you've never used Digg before, please, go sign up! > Thank you for being a member of the growing Downsize DC Army, > which allows you to particpate or not participate on individual > issues, depending on your own principles. > Jim Babka & Perry Willis > President & Communications Director > DownsizeDC.org, Inc. > P.S. This Congress is still just getting started. Not all new > office holders have Internet contact pages yet. We are updating > our system to reflect the new Congress, just as quickly as the > information comes to us. If you have one or more new elected > representatives, its possible that you won't be able to get a > message to them. But your message should go through to any of your > representatives that remain the same, or for which we have already > received new information. Don't let this transition deter you from > taking action. Your message will get through to someone, and will > make a difference. > *D o w n s i z e r - D i s p a t c h* > is the official email list of DownsizeDC.org, Inc. > & Downsize DC Foundation > > CONTRIBUTE to the > Electronic Lobbyist project > http://www.DownsizeDC.org is > sponsored by DownsizeDC.org, Inc. -- a non-profit educational > organization promoting the ideas of individual liberty, personal > responsibility, free markets, and small government. > You are encouraged to forward this message to friends and business > associates, and permission is hereby granted to reproduce any > items herein as long as attribution is provided for articles and > the subscription instructions above are included. > IF you have difficulties or inquiries, simply hit reply to this > message. We're eager to help, including with requests to unsubscribe. > You are subscribed to this newsletter at this email address: > rmigalla at earthlink.net > > -- > If you do not want to receive any more newsletters, this link > > > To update your preferences and to unsubscribe visit this link > > > Powered by PHPlist2.10.5, ? tincan ltd > > _______________________________________________ > CitizensTruth mailing list > CitizensTruth at six.pairlist.net > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/citizenstruth > website: http://citizenstruth.info > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > CitizensTruth mailing list > CitizensTruth at six.pairlist.net > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/citizenstruth > website: http://citizenstruth.info > From aqmstaffo at mailbag.com Sun Jan 18 16:13:10 2009 From: aqmstaffo at mailbag.com (Daniel Stafford) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 15:13:10 -0600 Subject: [CitizensTruth] Intergarden - networking people with garden space Message-ID: <49739B66.4020702@mailbag.com> RT: Intergarden: got garden space but no time? Got time but no garden space? Split the produce! http://intergarden.ning.com/ From edward_rynearson at yahoo.com Mon Jan 19 12:34:37 2009 From: edward_rynearson at yahoo.com (Edward Rynearson) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 09:34:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: [CitizensTruth] MLK Day - Dr. William F. Pepper and the King Family Discovered The Truth Message-ID: <958807.298.qm@web30007.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In 1977 the family of Martin Luther King engaged an attorney and friend, Dr. William Pepper, to investigate a suspicion they had. They no longer believed that James Earl Ray was the killer. For their peace of mind, for an accurate record of history, and out of a sense of justice they conducted a two decade long investigation. The evidence they uncovered was put before a jury in Memphis, TN, in November 1999. 70 witnesses testified under oath, 4,000 pages of transcripts described that evidence, much of it new. It took the jury 59 minutes to come back with their decision that exonerated James Earl Ray, who had already died in prison. The jury found that Lloyd Jowers, owner of Jim?s Grill, had participated in a conspiracy to kill King. The evidence showed that the conspiracy included J. Edgar Hoover and the FBI, Richard Helms and the CIA, the military, the Memphis police department, and organized crime. Please take a few minutes this MLK Day to explore this site. If you feel it is appropriate, please consider forwarding this link to your friends this MLK Day. http://actofstate.org From aqmstaffo at mailbag.com Mon Jan 19 13:03:51 2009 From: aqmstaffo at mailbag.com (Daniel Stafford) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 12:03:51 -0600 Subject: [CitizensTruth] N.Y. Times: The End of Banking As We Know It... Message-ID: <4974C087.3030200@mailbag.com> N.Y. Times: The End of Banking As We Know It... http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/18/business/18gret.html From aqmstaffo at mailbag.com Tue Jan 20 01:33:51 2009 From: aqmstaffo at mailbag.com (Daniel Stafford) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 00:33:51 -0600 Subject: [CitizensTruth] Labor's "Medicare for All" Advocates Test Strength Message-ID: <4975704F.6040602@mailbag.com> Labor's "Medicare for All" Advocates Test Strength http://www.truthout.org/011909LA Mischa Gaus, Labor Notes: "Labor activists from 31 states gathered in St. Louis last weekend, solidifying their strategies to push 'Medicare for All' - and to oppose the half-hearted health care plans circulating in Washington. The meeting launched Labor for Single-Payer Healthcare, a campaign whose reform would cut the insurance industry out of health care and expand an improved Medicare system to everyone. The single-payer concept has been endorsed by 39 state AFL-CIO federations, 100 central labor councils, and more than 400 local unions." From hal at drxyzzy.org Tue Jan 20 11:44:47 2009 From: hal at drxyzzy.org (Hal Snyder) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 10:44:47 -0600 Subject: [CitizensTruth] Salmonella Outbreak, Peanut Butter Product Recalls Message-ID: How did the salmonella get into the peanuts? Salmonella Typhimurium Outbreak Updated: January 19, 2009 http://www.fda.gov/oc/opacom/hottopics/salmonellatyph.html Search for Peanut Butter Product Recalls http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/peanutbutterrecall/index.cfm From futurenotwritten at yahoo.com Thu Jan 22 00:16:13 2009 From: futurenotwritten at yahoo.com (Jay Becker) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 21:16:13 -0800 (PST) Subject: [CitizensTruth] Celebrating Roe Message-ID: <277105.56277.qm@web33504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Celebrate Roe?s 36th Birthday with us! The Illinois Choice Action Team will be holding a movie screening of the film ?The Abortion Diaries? on Sunday, January 25th to commemorate the 36th anniversary of the landmark U.S. Supreme Court decision Roe vs. Wade, which legalized abortion. The movie will be followed by discussion, cake, and an update on upcoming Illinois Choice Action Team activities and events. Having a pro-choice president will not diminish the anti-choice movement?s quest to overturn Roe and destroy a woman?s right to choose. We must continue the fight to preserve this right and guarantee reproductive freedom for generations to come. Don?t miss out on your chance to make a difference! Date: Sunday January 25, 2009 Time: 2-4 pm Place: St. Paul?s Cultural Center 2215 West North Avenue Chicago, IL Suggested donation: $10.00 Please RSVP to: outreach at ilchoiceactionteam.org For more information about our organization or to become a member, visit our website at http://www.ilchoiceactionteam.org. The Illinois Choice Action Team is a group of volunteers committed to advancing NARAL Pro-Choice America?s mission. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mjkirk12 at yahoo.com Fri Jan 23 15:24:22 2009 From: mjkirk12 at yahoo.com (Mike Kirk) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 12:24:22 -0800 (PST) Subject: [CitizensTruth] Bill Bonner article Message-ID: <963672.30963.qm@web83811.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Bill suggests where we are headed - based on history... http://www.lewrockwell.com/bonner/bonner354.html My favorite paragraph: ? "By the end of Roman era, for example, the burdens of empire were so heavy that people sold themselves into slavery to get free of them. So many people did so at one point that the authorities had to come up with another solution; they outlawed the practice. Henceforth, Roman citizens were required by law to remain free!" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Walterb306 at cs.com Sat Jan 24 12:50:43 2009 From: Walterb306 at cs.com (Walterb306 at cs.com) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 12:50:43 EST Subject: [CitizensTruth] ARTICE-In Final Legal Act Bush Appeals Spy Ruling Message-ID: All, FYI, Beverley In Final Legal Act, Bush Appeals Spy Ruling http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2009/01/in-final-legal.html By David Kravets January 20, 2009 | 7:42:50 PMCategories: Surveillance With a mere 64 minutes left in its last full day in office, the Bush administration asked a federal judge to stay enforcement of a ruling that would keep alive a lawsuit which tests whether the president can bypass the Congress and eavesdrop on Americans without warrants. The request was lodged with U.S. District Judge Vaughn Walker of San Francisco at 10:56 p.m. EST on the Martin Luther King Jr. holiday -- about 13 hours before the inauguration of President Barack Obama. The filing was among now former President George W. Bush's final legal acts in office. The Bush administration asked Walker's permission to appeal his Jan. 5 decision to the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco. Walker had ruled that "sufficient facts" exist that two U.S.-based lawyers for an Islamic charity might have been spied upon for the case to proceed to the next stage. The case seeks the courts to rule on the constitutionality of the Bush administration's warrantless eavesdropping program the president approved in the aftermath of the Sept. 11, 2001 terror attacks. Congress authorized the spy program last year as part of legislation immunizing participating telecommunication companies from lawsuits accusing them of violating their customers' civil liberties, but the spying in this case allegedly happened in 2004. Eric Holder, the incoming U.S. attorney, said the Obama administration supported the spy legislation and would defend it in a separate challenge. On Monday, the Bush administration sought to prevent the disclosure of a Top Secret document at the center of a closely watched spy case, a document Walker ruled could be admitted. The suit involves two American lawyers who the Treasury Department accidentally gave a Top Secret document in 2004 showing they were illegally eavesdropped on by the government when working for a now-defunct Islamic charity that year. Their suit looked all but dead in July when they were initially blocked from using the document to prove they were spied on. They were forced to return it to the government. But two weeks ago, Walker said the document could be used in the case because there was sufficient, anecdotal evidence unrelated to the document that suggests the lawyers for the Al-Haramain charity were spied upon. Without the document, the lawyers - Wendell Belew and Asim Ghafoo - don't likely have a case. In its Monday filling , (.pdf) the government repeated its assertion that the use of the document in the case would jeopardize national security. The administration said the document was protected by the so-called state secrets privilege and objected to even Walker reviewing it - yet alone the lawyers for Belew and Ghafoo - who Walker said could see it in private. "If the court were to find ? that none of the plaintiffs are aggrieved parties, the case obviously could not proceed, but such a holding would reveal to plaintiffs and the public at large information that is protected by the state secrets privilege - namely, that certain individuals were not subject to alleged surveillance," the administration wrote. By the same token, the administration argued, if Walker allowed the case to proceed after reviewing the document, it "would confirm that a plaintiff was subject to surveillance." The government continued: "Indeed, if the actual facts were that just one of the plaintiffs had been subject to alleged surveillance, any such differentiation likewise could not be disclosed because it would inherently reveal intelligence information as to who was and was not a subject of interest, which communications were and were not of intelligence interest, and which modes of communication were and were not of intelligence interest, and which modes of communication may or may not have been subject to surveillance." A hearing is scheduled in Walker's courtroom on Friday. "We filed this lawsuit to establish a judicial precedent that the president cannot disregard Congress in the name of national security," said Jon Eisenberg, the lawyer for Belew and Ghafoo. "Plaintiffs have a right to litigate the legality of the surveillance. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aroyboy44 at hotmail.com Sat Jan 24 14:48:43 2009 From: aroyboy44 at hotmail.com (andrew ritter) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 19:48:43 +0000 Subject: [CitizensTruth] OBAMA starts OBOMBING In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This sure didn't take long...... Two US Airstrikes Offer a Concrete Sign of Obama's Pakistan Policy http://www.truthout.org/012409A -- Andrew Ritter http://incaseumissedit.blogspot.com/ _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live? Hotmail??more than just e-mail. http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_howitworks_012009 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From geri at thetwofacesofmoney.com Sat Jan 24 18:27:53 2009 From: geri at thetwofacesofmoney.com (Geri Perry) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 17:27:53 -0600 Subject: [CitizensTruth] Experimental Weapons (DEWs) in Gaza Message-ID: <497BA3F9.604@thetwofacesofmoney.com> DEWs again! Interview with Ralph Schoenman concerning the experimental directed energy weapons (DEWS) used in Gaza, (supplied to Israel by the US), that destroy the DNA: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37xKqUuDL_I&feature=related NOW check this documentary "Star Wars in Iraq" - referred to by Schoenman above, which describes in more detail some of the "unusual injuries and collateral damage" seen by doctors which led to the conclusion that "experimental weapons" were used in Iraq (and Lebanon, and now Gaza). Stick around to listen to Wm. Arkin of the Washington Post talk about high powered microwaves and lasers as "direct energy" weapons (DEWS), and black budgets in two segments in last half of video: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8361811662480560988&ei=sY97SbDnDpGu-QHRzPGrBQ&q=star+wars+in+iraq Could similar "experimental weapons" have taken down the twin towers? How closely related are these "secret weapons" related to technologies utilized in various free energy devices, already developed and patented? Consider these specific cases of suppression of new energy inventions as per http://www.martinfrost.ws/htmlfiles/june2006/energy_suppression.html : Energy Invention Suppression Case Statistics ? Number of Energy Invention Suppression Incidents - 53 ? Number of Dead, Missing, or Injured Energy Inventors, Activists, Associates - 13 ? Number of Energy Inventors Threatened with Death - 16 ? Number of Energy Researchers and Associates Imprisoned - 7 ? Number of Incidents Involving the US Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) - 4 ? Number of Incidents Involving the US Government - 27 ? Number of Inventions Classified Secret by US Patent Office - @4000 (see "Regarding Patents" snip below) ? Number of Incidents Involving Oil Companies - 9 Names of Oil Companies and Banks Involved - Standard, Atlantic Richfield, Shell Oil Company, World Bank, Wells Fargo Bank REGARDING PATENTS: Tom Valone is a former Patent Examiner who was fired about six years ago for producing a conference in Washington DC on these new energy technologies. Valone recently won a lawsuit against the US Patent Office and was awarded reinstatement and six years of back pay. In a 2001 email to Gary Vesperman, Valone wrote in part: "As a former Patent Examiner, I can tell you that the number of "secretized" patents in the vault at the Patent Office (Park 5 Bldg.) is closer to 4000 or more. They never receive a patent number, and the inventor is rarely, if ever, compensated by the government for use of the invention." [NB:] The U.S. Patent Office has a nine-member committee that screens patents for national security implications. A hidden purpose of this committee is to also screen energy-related patents which could threaten the power and fossil fuel companies, etc. More about free energy suppression here: http://www.martinfrost.ws/htmlfiles/june2006/energy_suppression.html AND here: http://peswiki.com/energy/Directory:Suppression supported by individual testimonies: http://www.padrak.com/ine/POLETT899.html and http://www.padrak.com/ine/INE13.html and http://www.padrak.com/ine/TITLE35.html and http://www.padrak.com/ine/POLETT899.html and http://www.padrak.com/ine/NEN_5_10_7.html and http://www.padrak.com/ine/NEN_5_8_7.html and http://www.padrak.com/ine/HAARP97.html and http://www.padrak.com/ine/NEN_5_5_6.html and http://www.padrak.com/ine/INE20.html and http://www.padrak.com/ine/INE17.html and http://www.padrak.com/ine/INE18.html and http://www.padrak.com/ine/INE19.html And then there are the infiltrators, disinfo specialists and "rogue" researchers to contend with: http://www.padrak.com/ine/NEN_6_4_12.html From Walterb306 at cs.com Sun Jan 25 11:38:19 2009 From: Walterb306 at cs.com (Walterb306 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 11:38:19 EST Subject: [CitizensTruth] ARTICLE-Republican senators resort to extortion Message-ID: All, FYI, Beverley Friday, January 23, 2009 http://www.nwprogressive.org/weblog/2009/01/republican-senators-resort-to-exto rtion.html Northwest Progressive Institute Advocate Republican Senators resort to extortion on Holder nomination In an effort to derail the nomination of Attorney General-designate Eric Holder, it seems Senate Republicans are now resorting to extortion. They'll confirm Holder if he promises not to prosecute any Bush Administration officials for any involvement in acts of torture, according to Senator Sheldon Whitehouse(D-RI). Republicans on the Judiciary Committee have asked Eric Holder to make a commitment, before he is even confirmed, that he will not prosecute any Bush Administration officials for their involvement in acts of torture during the last administration. Anyone familiar with the criminal justice system - especially those with experience as prosecutors or judges - should know that a prosecutor should make no determination about who to prosecute before he or she has all the facts, and particularly not in response to legislative pressure. Senator Whitehouse makes a good point about the separation of powers. It isn't for the legislative branch to hold up executive branch appointments, in order to extract promises from those appointees, especially with regard to potential future prosecutions. But it's much more than that. I understand that President Obama wants to get beyond the partisan divisions and rancor and look to America's future. That's all good and well, but the United States was founded on the rule of law. You often hear that "we are a nation of laws, not men." If the rule of law were not important, what would separate our nation from countries like Myanmar (Burma) or North Korea? If Eric Holder, or any other Obama appointee subject to confirmation by the Senate, were to agree not to investigate alleged wrongdoing Bush Administration officials and forward alleged crimes for potential prosecution, it would be an egregious abdication of responsibility, not to mention an act of questionable legal ethics. It would say to future generations that at a time when the Bush Administration felt it was above the law, Democrats did nothing but stand idly by and let it happen. And then we'd be no different than them -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Walterb306 at cs.com Sun Jan 25 12:31:01 2009 From: Walterb306 at cs.com (Walterb306 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 12:31:01 EST Subject: [CitizensTruth] ARTICLE-Gun Control Message-ID: All, Worthwhile info in spite of some hyper rhetoric. Beverley Subject: Extremely Important: America Is Planned Next! ? If there was ever a time to tell Congress to leave the 2nd Amendment alone "What part of "shall not be infringed" don't they understand" the time is now.? The People of England now wants their guns back http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTq2NEUlhDE? ? A LITTLE GUN HISTORY In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control.? From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. ------------------------------ In 1911, Turkey established gun control.? From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. ----------------------------- - In 1938, Germany established gun control.? From 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated. ------------------------------ In 1935, China established gun control.?? From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. ------------------------------ In 1964, Guatemala established gun control.? From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. ------------------------------ In 1970, Uganda established gun control.?? From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. ------------------------------ In 1956, Cambodia established gun control.? From 1975 to 1977, one million educated' people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. ----------------------------- Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun? control: 56 million. ------------------------------ It has now been 12 months since gun owners in Australia were forced by new law to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed by their?own Government, a program costing Australia taxpayers more than $500 million dollars.? The first year results are now in: List of 7 items: Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2 percent Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6 percent Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent)! In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now up 300 percent.? Note that while the law-abiding citizens turned them in, the criminals did not, and criminals still possess their guns! While figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady decrease in armed robbery with firearms, this has changed drastically upward in the past 12 months, since criminals now are guaranteed that their prey is unarmed. There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults of the ELDERLY.? Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public safety has decreased, after such monumental effort, and expense was expended in successfully ridding Australian society of guns The Australian experience and the other historical facts above prove it. You won't see this datum on the US evening news, or hear politicians disseminating this information. Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws adversely affect only the law-abiding citizens. Take note my fellow Americans, before it's too late! The next time someone talks in favor of gun control, please remind them of this history lesson. With guns, we are 'citizens'.? Without them, we are 'subjects'. During WWII the Japanese decided not to invade America because they knew most Americans were ARMED! If you value your freedom, Please spread this anti-gun control message to all of your friends. The purpose of fighting is to win.? There is no possible victory in defense.? The sword is more important than the shield, and skill is more important than either.? The final weapon is the brain.? All else is supplemental. LIBERTY WORKS RADIO NETWORK FELLOWSHIP Have your friends go to www.libertyworksradionetwork.com and watch the LWRN video!! PLEASE SEND THIS E-MAIL TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW.? IT MAY SAVE YOUR LIFE -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mjkirk12 at yahoo.com Mon Jan 26 11:30:17 2009 From: mjkirk12 at yahoo.com (Mike Kirk) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 08:30:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: [CitizensTruth] Glenn Beck fingers Central Banking - C&L calls him crazy.... Message-ID: <214603.26067.qm@web83812.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Glenn Beck gets it right, but is blasted by Crooks and Liars. http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/glenn-beck-blames-bad-economy-existe -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From edward_rynearson at yahoo.com Mon Jan 26 12:36:07 2009 From: edward_rynearson at yahoo.com (Edward Rynearson) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 09:36:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: [CitizensTruth] =?utf-8?q?Alex_Jones=E2=80=99_The_Obama_Deception?= =?utf-8?q?_=E2=80=94_Coming_March_15?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <623234.22113.qm@web30007.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Alex Jones? The Obama Deception ? Coming March 15 Infowars January 26, 2009 Alex Jones The Obama Deception will be the first hard-hitting film to expose Obama, his agenda & handlers cutting through all the media hype, side-issues and Left/Right rhetoric. Alex has made several films exposing the Bush agenda and will approach the Obama Administrations plans from the same non-partisan point of view looking past the frontman in the White House to the real owners on Wall Street, in the Bilderberg group and at the Federal Reserve. Please help spread the word about this powerful new film. Make sure everyone you know whether they claim to be a Democrat, Republican, independent or none of the above sees this film before it is too late. The Obama Deception hits DVD on March 15. http://www.infowars.com/?p=7316 (Alex mapped out the entire Bankster induced economic collapse last year - his information is very reliable) From hal at drxyzzy.org Mon Jan 26 13:26:41 2009 From: hal at drxyzzy.org (Hal Snyder) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 12:26:41 -0600 Subject: [CitizensTruth] Glenn Beck fingers Central Banking - C&L calls him crazy.... In-Reply-To: <214603.26067.qm@web83812.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <214603.26067.qm@web83812.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4B9B9959-1184-43E2-ACEB-9FACE23A2FEA@drxyzzy.org> Mike, thanks for the reference. I come away from the C&L posting with a different impression. IMO Glenn Beck is occasionally right about something the way a stopped clock is occasionally right. I don't expect consistent or deep insight from a Fox/CNN talking head. I am also suspicious of anyone who cites the Heritage Foundation and expects to be taken seriously. It looks to me as if Beck, acting here as a megaphone for Heritage Foundation propaganda, is simply offering a scapegoat, attempting to blame central banks for everything while averting a radical analysis of the present system. Damage control, limited hangout, that sort of thing, to spare most of the perpetrators of institutionalized grand larceny. I don't agree with the anti-conspiratorial ranting at Crooks and Liars, either, btw. That's the old straw man argument. Create an image of a crazy conspiracy kook, demolish it, then declare victory in the real world where serious debate never even started. Reagan did the same sort of thing with his "welfare queen", sidestepping responsible debate over the social contract. On Jan 26, 2009, at 10:30 AM, Mike Kirk wrote: > Glenn Beck gets it right, but is blasted by Crooks and Liars. > > http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/glenn-beck-blames-bad-economy-existe -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hal at drxyzzy.org Mon Jan 26 22:44:12 2009 From: hal at drxyzzy.org (Hal Snyder) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 21:44:12 -0600 Subject: [CitizensTruth] Is there anything to 2012? Message-ID: <345445E8-127C-455B-A329-0214F0F984E5@drxyzzy.org> Thought I'd ask readers of this list, what do you think about 2012 and similar transformation lore? Some of it overlaps topics discussed here. Is it: New age flim-flam? Desperate magical thinking, trying to cope with scary things coming at us? Spiritual metaphor for (necessary) sociopolitical transformation of humanity? Leading edge of a spiritual awakening? Other? Do people have preferred sources? This stuff is outside the box. I do not expect conventional media to get much of it right. I have looked into the following: 2012: The Return of Quetzalcoatl by Daniel Pinchbeck 2013: The End of Days or a New Beginning by Marie D. Jones Apocalypse 2012: An Investigation into Civilization's End by Lawrence E. Joseph Video series: The 2012 Enigma by David Wilcock I think writings by Eckhart Tolle and Jill Bolte Taylor are relevant, though neither of them might appreciate inclusion with the 2012 crowd. Hal -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mincam2 at yahoo.com Mon Jan 26 22:55:00 2009 From: mincam2 at yahoo.com (Chuck Minne) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 19:55:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: [CitizensTruth] Is there anything to 2012? In-Reply-To: <345445E8-127C-455B-A329-0214F0F984E5@drxyzzy.org> Message-ID: <817412.42365.qm@web36901.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Check out:? ?http://www.sitchin.com/ ? His book, "The 12th Planet," holds some sort of record for the most printings, I think. A really interesting read, but I stopped with it and did not continue the series. ? I think that there is a lot of truth in what he says (not simply your broken watch that's right twice a day,) but, OTOH, I also think he is wrong about some of it. In any event, I'm not worried about 2012. But I know I guy who seriously is. ? I like the idea that we were "deposited" by aliens. To me that's as believable as evolution and a lot more believable than creation. ? ? "I have lost faith, godammit! I put my faith in the People and that was a mistake! This is a shit people! They get stolen blind by their politicians and they lick their boots. They send their kids off to die for somebody's business deal and they celebrate it like they're doing something heroic! This great and glorious people! Lazy sacks of junk food and jingo!" ? From: "The Army of the Republic"? by Stuart Archer Cohen ? --- On Mon, 1/26/09, Hal Snyder wrote: From: Hal Snyder Subject: [CitizensTruth] Is there anything to 2012? To: citizenstruth at six.pairlist.net Date: Monday, January 26, 2009, 9:44 PM Thought I'd ask readers of this list, what do you think about 2012 and similar transformation lore? Some of it overlaps topics discussed here. Is it: New age flim-flam? Desperate magical thinking, trying to cope with scary things coming at us? Spiritual metaphor for (necessary) sociopolitical transformation of humanity? Leading edge of a spiritual awakening? Other? Do people have preferred sources? This stuff is outside the box. I do not expect conventional media to get much of it right. I have looked into the following: 2012: The Return of Quetzalcoatl?by Daniel Pinchbeck 2013: The End of Days or a New Beginning?by Marie D. Jones Apocalypse 2012: An Investigation into Civilization's End?by Lawrence E. Joseph Video series:?The 2012 Enigma by David Wilcock I think writings by Eckhart Tolle and Jill Bolte Taylor are relevant, though neither of them might appreciate inclusion with the 2012 crowd. Hal _______________________________________________ CitizensTruth mailing list CitizensTruth at six.pairlist.net http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/citizenstruth website: http://citizenstruth.info -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From welaware at merr.com Mon Jan 26 23:49:44 2009 From: welaware at merr.com (Kris Knight) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 22:49:44 -0600 Subject: [CitizensTruth] Is there anything to 2012? In-Reply-To: <345445E8-127C-455B-A329-0214F0F984E5@drxyzzy.org> References: <345445E8-127C-455B-A329-0214F0F984E5@drxyzzy.org> Message-ID: <46428D63-8E8B-494A-9D63-4390AA2F5C80@merr.com> I have been following/reading about this for many years now. So.... No to new age flim-flam, but some of the flimsier explanations likely include some of that interweaving and I expect manipulations like that to increase as we near the crucial dates. No to desperate thinking as the source of info, although there are many who will experience varying degrees of desperation as they learn about this through uninformed or poorly informed filters of others who are trying to terrify. And some will be desperate from hearing the facts about what is taking place, because some of it is nearly unfathomable in its implications. An example is those who are trying to terrify about global warming without giving the whole picture.....and yes, I include Al Gore No to spiritual metaphor for...seems there is too much happening astrologically/galactically for this to simply a figment of someone's metaphorical creativity... No to leading edge of a spiritual awakening...although the transformations expected may very well include awakenings of things like our "junk DNA" which are not junk at all, and much, much more All choices listed by Hal too simplistic in my understanding... I'd say for me, my vote is "other", which includes...convergence of many dynamics from different dimensions, culminating during year of 2012 but already in process now. This focus on the year 2012 seems to have originated from the Mayan calendar alleged prophecies, as near as I can tell, and there are many and varied explanations that I feel are well worth exploring, instead of taking one route and sticking to it without being discerning beyond that. One book in particular is excellent because it offers such a diversity of authors who have things to say about what they see going on leading up to 2012 and beyond.... THE MYSTERY OF 2012 is great for that reason and a good beginning. It still stuns me that some people have no idea that there is anything at all unusual about the year 2012 but I encounter this on a relatively regular basis. Some are derisively comparing this to the hype over Y2K. I have to differ with this. One of the main things that is astrologically scheduled to happen in Dec. of 2012 is the perfect alignment of the Sun, the Earth, and the center of the galaxy, which I believe occurs once every 26,000 years, if I remember correctly. This has many implications that I have read about but I am in no position to explain them. I have purchased several books and DVD's about 2012 so I can go into this time in human and galactic history as well informed and discerning as possible. I believe David Wilcock has some of the best compiling of multiple dimensions of information as to what is happening and what is to come of anyone I know right now (divinecosmos.com). I also found Richard Hoaglund's DVD "HYPERDIMENSIONAL ELECTION OF OBAMA AND 2012" to contain a great deal of converging information (3 hours long and VERY slow but lots of amazing info, so hang in there), much of which led me to affirm what I had already learned and other information reminding how much I don't yet have learned in order to have an understanding of what it is that is going on. And what I can't grasp intellectually, I am going to accept as bigger than I can wrap my mind around but probably important and worth respecting for its implications nonetheless. Hoaglund is a hyperdimensional physicist, acc. to him. I had not heard of this term before, but I am wondering if it overlaps in some way with quantum physics. So, learning more and more about the transformation we're in the midst of now is what I'm about, and I'm humbled by the amount of study some people have already done about this. If even a fraction of the big stuff I've learned about what is transpiring is true, we're in for some exciting times which will test us as nothing has before, which is not to say everything will be terrible; it is likely to at the very least be amazingly challenging and expansive. It will, in many ways, be a glasshalffull/glasshalfempty time for us, depending on our interpretations, our desire to hold onto what we've known in the past, and our ability to be grateful for change. And BTW, I do not consider death during these times THE THING to avoid if at all possible. My viewpoint about that is different than alot of you, likely, so some things that might seem terrifying to you would not feel terrifying to me because of my viewpoint on death or the death of life as we used to know it. Using the criteria of staying alive or keeping what was, alive, as a measure of the quality of the coming years' happenings doesn't compute for me. I agree with Hal that conventional media is unlikely to get this "right". I don't even know that any one of us can be the judge of "who gets it right". It's arrogant to even think we can summarily figure that out, frankly. We are so egocentric when it comes to our lives, our surroundings and our species. Also, to call a group of people "the 2012 crowd" is also quite revealing... I do believe this: those who are doing sincere homework re. this will likely spend very little time trying to convince others to embrace their thinking. I believe each person will either cooperate with what is transpiring, or not, and group mentality won't get us very far for this one, though group collective intention and emanation may. It will likely be our emanations that will be the deciding factor here on how we each journey through what is transpiring, and that is WAY beyond the narrow spectrum we call intellect... I am not familiar with the name of the second author but Echart Tolle likely wouldn't even bat an eyelash at being included in the 2012 context of viewpoints. He has one of the grandest and largest viewpoints on Earth right now and undoubtedly is here as one of our wayshowers. And thanks, Hal, for asking... On Jan 26, 2009, at 9:44 PM, Hal Snyder wrote: > Thought I'd ask readers of this list, what do you think about 2012 > and similar transformation lore? Some of it overlaps topics > discussed here. > > Is it: > > New age flim-flam? > Desperate magical thinking, trying to cope with scary things coming > at us? > Spiritual metaphor for (necessary) sociopolitical transformation of > humanity? > Leading edge of a spiritual awakening? > Other? > > Do people have preferred sources? > > This stuff is outside the box. I do not expect conventional media to > get much of it right. > > I have looked into the following: > > 2012: The Return of Quetzalcoatl by Daniel Pinchbeck > 2013: The End of Days or a New Beginning by Marie D. Jones > Apocalypse 2012: An Investigation into Civilization's End by > Lawrence E. Joseph > > Video series: The 2012 Enigma by David Wilcock > > > > I think writings by Eckhart Tolle and Jill Bolte Taylor are > relevant, though neither of them might appreciate inclusion with the > 2012 crowd. > > Hal > > _______________________________________________ > CitizensTruth mailing list > CitizensTruth at six.pairlist.net > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/citizenstruth > website: http://citizenstruth.info Kris Knight of WellAware Life Enhancement Center Phone: 1-608-ALL-LIFE welaware at merr.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rmigalla at earthlink.net Tue Jan 27 07:11:26 2009 From: rmigalla at earthlink.net (Robin Migalla) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 06:11:26 -0600 Subject: [CitizensTruth] Is there anything to 2012? Message-ID: <01C98046.16E59320.rmigalla@earthlink.net> Good question, Hal. I guess my best answer is a question - What difference does it make if you're living right? But to participate in a little mental masturbation about it, yes, I do believe there is something very significant happening on our planet at this time. My suspicion is that we are moving into 4th density, the density of Love. Of course learning to love is never an easy task. Cheers, Robin -----Original Message----- From: Hal Snyder [SMTP:hal at drxyzzy.org] Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 21:44 To: citizenstruth at six.pairlist.net Subject: [CitizensTruth] Is there anything to 2012? Thought I'd ask readers of this list, what do you think about 2012 and similar transformation lore? Some of it overlaps topics discussed here. Is it: New age flim-flam? Desperate magical thinking, trying to cope with scary things coming at us? Spiritual metaphor for (necessary) sociopolitical transformation of humanity? Leading edge of a spiritual awakening? Other? Do people have preferred sources? This stuff is outside the box. I do not expect conventional media to get much of it right. I have looked into the following: 2012: The Return of Quetzalcoatl by Daniel Pinchbeck 2013: The End of Days or a New Beginning by Marie D. Jones Apocalypse 2012: An Investigation into Civilization's End by Lawrence E. Joseph Video series: The 2012 Enigma by David Wilcock I think writings by Eckhart Tolle and Jill Bolte Taylor are relevant, though neither of them might appreciate inclusion with the 2012 crowd. Hal << File: ATT00194.htm >> << File: ATT00195.txt >> From r.gillam at comcast.net Tue Jan 27 17:39:12 2009 From: r.gillam at comcast.net (Ragen Gillam) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 16:39:12 -0600 Subject: [CitizensTruth] FW: Is there anything to 2012? Message-ID: <20090127223911.765A06CA8A@six.pairlist.net> Here are some interesting points of view on the subject. Interview with Drunvalo Melchezekek about Mayan prophecy and 2012: http://www.consciousmedianetwork.com/members/drunvalo.htm Speech from 2012 conference which has some good points (6 parts). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vz6gf4_enxw &feature=related _____ From: citizenstruth-bounces at six.pairlist.net [mailto:citizenstruth-bounces at six.pairlist.net] On Behalf Of Hal Snyder Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 9:44 PM To: citizenstruth at six.pairlist.net Subject: [CitizensTruth] Is there anything to 2012? Thought I'd ask readers of this list, what do you think about 2012 and similar transformation lore? Some of it overlaps topics discussed here. Is it: New age flim-flam? Desperate magical thinking, trying to cope with scary things coming at us? Spiritual metaphor for (necessary) sociopolitical transformation of humanity? Leading edge of a spiritual awakening? Other? Do people have preferred sources? This stuff is outside the box. I do not expect conventional media to get much of it right. I have looked into the following: 2012: The Return of Quetzalcoatl by Daniel Pinchbeck 2013: The End of Days or a New Beginning by Marie D. Jones Apocalypse 2012: An Investigation into Civilization's End by Lawrence E. Joseph Video series: The 2012 Enigma by David Wilcock &feature=PlayList&p=7E95D29D067AC7FB&index=0&playnext=1> I think writings by Eckhart Tolle and Jill Bolte Taylor are relevant, though neither of them might appreciate inclusion with the 2012 crowd. Hal -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mincam2 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 27 18:30:40 2009 From: mincam2 at yahoo.com (Chuck Minne) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 15:30:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [CitizensTruth] Is there anything to 2012? In-Reply-To: <46428D63-8E8B-494A-9D63-4390AA2F5C80@merr.com> Message-ID: <317860.36133.qm@web36907.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From:? http://www.coasttocoastam.com/shows/2009/01/04.html? ? Sunday January 4th, 2009 Host George Noory Guests David Wilcock, Mitch Battros Full Show Streams Win | Real ?High Bandwidth Win | Real ?Low Bandwidth Clip Streams Win |?Real ? Henry Deacon's Testimony Win |?Real ? Stargate Travel & Whistleblowers Win |?Real ? 2012 & Frequency Shift Full Show Downloads Hour 1 Hour 2 Hour 3 Hour 4 mp3 info >> Websites divinecosmos.com Books The Reincarnation of Edgar Cayce Websites earthchangesmedia.com Recap ETs, Whistleblowers, & 2012Intuitive researcher David Wilcock spoke about the existence of ETs, whistleblowers' testimonies, stargates, and the coming of 2012. He suggested that conditions in our galaxy have made human-type life plentiful. It's a myth that aliens are malevolent scary-looking creatures-- they actually look similar to ourselves, he said. Much of Wilcock's material about ETs was gathered from conversations he had with whistleblowers such as 'Henry Deacon' who claims that through his work in black budget projects he met and interacted with 40-45 different human/alien species. Deacon said he traveled to a base on Mars, and there were 240,000 personnel on the Red Planet, with only 10% of them born on Earth. He also explained the ancient means of traveling through a stargate didn't permit the transfer of anything non-biological, whereas the current method allows for instantaneous travel along with non-organic objects. Wilcock spoke about the testimony of Sgt. Clifford Stone (video interview) who said he knew of 57 different types of aliens that range from 1?? feet tall to 15 ft. tall, in every skin color including orange and green (beings from the Alpha Centauri system are said to have dark green skin and engage in a kind of photosynthesis). The ETs are particularly focused on Earth, as we are about to go through an energetic change in 2012 that will raise our frequency to their level, Wilcock explained. Related Articles Yellowstone Quake Swarms Recently, hundreds of small earthquakes have struck Yellowstone National Park, prompting fears that a disastrous volcanic eruption might happen there. Scientists are continuing to monitor the earthquake swarms, the largest Yellowstone's had in the last 20 years. First hour guest, researcher Mitch Battros offered analysis of the quake situation. While the Yellowstone caldera is due for an eruption, the current signs, such as the quakes being under 4.0, suggest that volcanic activity there is not imminent, he said. We'd have weeks of notice before it blows, he added. Battros also noted that a Mayan elder has named a volcanic eruption at Yellowstone as part of their prophecy. ? ? ? ? "I have lost faith, godammit! I put my faith in the People and that was a mistake! This is a shit people! They get stolen blind by their politicians and they lick their boots. They send their kids off to die for somebody's business deal and they celebrate it like they're doing something heroic! This great and glorious people! Lazy sacks of junk food and jingo!" ? From: "The Army of the Republic"? by Stuart Archer Cohen ? --- On Mon, 1/26/09, Kris Knight wrote: From: Kris Knight Subject: Re: [CitizensTruth] Is there anything to 2012? To: "Hal Snyder" Cc: "truth seekers" Date: Monday, January 26, 2009, 10:49 PM I have been following/reading about this for many years now. ?So.... No to new age flim-flam, but some of the flimsier explanations likely include some of that interweaving and I expect manipulations like that to increase as we near the crucial ? ?? ?dates. No to desperate thinking as the source of info, although there are many who will experience varying degrees of desperation as they learn about this through uninformed or poorly? ?? ? ? ? informed filters of others who are trying to terrify. ?And some will be desperate from hearing the facts about what is taking place, because some of it is nearly unfathomable? ?? ? ? ? in its implications. An example is those who are trying to terrify about global warming without giving the whole picture.....and yes, I include Al?Gore No to spiritual metaphor for...seems there is too much happening astrologically/galactically for this to simply a figment of someone's metaphorical creativity... No to leading edge of a spiritual awakening...although the transformations expected may very well include awakenings of things like our "junk DNA" which are not junk at all, and? ?? ? ? ?much, much more All choices listed by Hal too simplistic in my understanding... I'd say for me, my vote is "other", which includes...convergence of many dynamics from different dimensions, culminating during year of 2012 but already in process now. ?This focus on the year 2012 seems to have originated from the Mayan calendar alleged prophecies, as near as I can tell, and there are many and varied explanations that I feel are well worth exploring, instead of taking one route and sticking to it without ?being discerning beyond that. ?One book in particular is excellent because it offers such a diversity of authors who have things to say about what they see going on leading up to 2012 and beyond.... ?THE MYSTERY OF 2012 is great for that reason and a good beginning. ?It still stuns me that some people have no idea that there is anything at all unusual about the year 2012 but I encounter this on a relatively regular basis. Some are derisively comparing this to the hype over Y2K. ?I have to differ with this. ?One of the main things that is astrologically scheduled to happen in Dec. of 2012 is the perfect alignment of the Sun, the Earth, and the center of the galaxy, which I believe occurs once every 26,000 years, if I remember correctly. ?This has many implications that I have read about but I am in no position to explain them. ?I have purchased several books and DVD's about 2012 so I can go into this time in human and galactic history as well informed and discerning as possible. ? I believe David Wilcock has some of the best compiling of multiple dimensions of information as to what is happening and what is to come of anyone I know right now (divinecosmos.com). ?I also found Richard Hoaglund's DVD "HYPERDIMENSIONAL ELECTION OF OBAMA AND 2012" to contain a great deal of converging information (3 hours long and VERY slow but lots of amazing info, so hang in there), much of which led me to affirm what I had already learned and other information reminding how much I don't yet have learned in order to have an understanding of what it is that is going on. ?And what I can't grasp intellectually, I am going to accept as bigger than I can wrap my mind around but probably important and worth respecting for its implications nonetheless. ?Hoaglund is a hyperdimensional physicist, acc. to him. ?I had not heard of this term before, but I am wondering if it overlaps in some way with quantum physics. So, learning more and more about the transformation we're in the midst of now is what I'm about, and I'm humbled by the amount of study some people have already done about this. ?If even a fraction of the big stuff I've learned about what is transpiring is true, we're in for some exciting times which will test us as nothing has before, which is not to say everything will be terrible; it is likely to at the very least be amazingly challenging and expansive. ?It will, in many ways, be a glasshalffull/glasshalfempty time for us, depending on our interpretations, our desire to hold onto what we've known in the past, and our ability to be grateful for change. ?And BTW, I do not consider death during these times THE THING to avoid if at all possible. ?My viewpoint about that is different than alot of you, likely, so some things that might seem terrifying to you would not feel terrifying to me because of my viewpoint on death or the death of life as we used to know it. ? Using the criteria of staying alive or keeping what was, alive, as a measure of the quality of the coming years' happenings doesn't compute for me. I agree with Hal that conventional media is unlikely to get this "right". ?I don't even know that any one of us can be the judge of "who gets it right". ?It's arrogant to even think we can summarily figure that out, frankly. ?We are so egocentric when it comes to our lives, our surroundings and our species. ?Also, to call a group of people "the 2012 crowd" is also quite revealing... I do believe this: ?those who are doing sincere homework re. this will likely spend very little time trying to convince others to embrace their thinking. ?I believe each person will either cooperate with what is transpiring, or not, and group mentality won't get us very far for this one, though group collective intention and emanation may. ?It will likely be our emanations that will be the deciding factor here on how we each journey through what is transpiring, and that is WAY beyond the narrow spectrum we call intellect... I am not familiar with the name of the second author but Echart Tolle likely wouldn't even bat an eyelash at being included in the 2012 context of viewpoints. ?He has one of the grandest and largest viewpoints on Earth right now and undoubtedly is here as one of our wayshowers. And thanks, Hal, for asking...? On Jan 26, 2009, at 9:44 PM, Hal Snyder wrote: Thought I'd ask readers of this list, what do you think about 2012 and similar transformation lore? Some of it overlaps topics discussed here. Is it: New age flim-flam? Desperate magical thinking, trying to cope with scary things coming at us? Spiritual metaphor for (necessary) sociopolitical transformation of humanity? Leading edge of a spiritual awakening? Other? Do people have preferred sources? This stuff is outside the box. I do not expect conventional media to get much of it right. I have looked into the following: 2012: The Return of Quetzalcoatl?by Daniel Pinchbeck 2013: The End of Days or a New Beginning?by Marie D. Jones Apocalypse 2012: An Investigation into Civilization's End?by Lawrence E. Joseph Video series:?The 2012 Enigma by David Wilcock I think writings by Eckhart Tolle and Jill Bolte Taylor are relevant, though neither of them might appreciate inclusion with the 2012 crowd. Hal _______________________________________________ CitizensTruth mailing list CitizensTruth at six.pairlist.net http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/citizenstruth website: http://citizenstruth.info Kris Knight of?WellAware Life Enhancement Center Phone: ?1-608-ALL-LIFE welaware at merr.com _______________________________________________ CitizensTruth mailing list CitizensTruth at six.pairlist.net http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/citizenstruth website: http://citizenstruth.info -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hal at drxyzzy.org Tue Jan 27 18:39:08 2009 From: hal at drxyzzy.org (Hal Snyder) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 17:39:08 -0600 Subject: [CitizensTruth] Is there anything to 2012? In-Reply-To: <317860.36133.qm@web36907.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <317860.36133.qm@web36907.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thank you, Chuck, Ragen, Robin, Dan, and Kris. I sent the 2012 inquiry to a contact off-list and as a result will be facilitating a discussion of 2012 later this week. So, feel free to keep the sources coming. If I have time to put together a presentation I'll post it online and people can tear it apart make constructive suggestions. :-) Hal -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dimension04 at sbcglobal.net Tue Jan 27 20:22:07 2009 From: dimension04 at sbcglobal.net (Connie Smith) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 19:22:07 -0600 Subject: [CitizensTruth] Is there anything to 2012? In-Reply-To: References: <317860.36133.qm@web36907.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1FECE1F01CDB4DD8A7BE2D15E37E1BA0@InspironConnie> I commend Kris for her well-thought-out and articulate (as well as humble!) expressions on this subject. Glad to see all others' input, too -- AND the question itself, Hal! As for myself, I woke up from a vivid dream in the Spring of 1987 -- there was a UFO in ascent, and there were 4 Beings just sort of "standing in the sky." We had a long talk in this dream, the only thing of which I could remember when I awoke was an ecstatic awareness that could only express itself as, "We're going 4th dimensional, we're going 4th dimensional!" In a couple of hours I could barely remember even that idea, but I still felt a joy that reminded me of a Wall Street Journal cartoon I had seen in 1981 that made me laugh uproariously: A middle-aged couple were out on their patio at night, gazing at the stars, and the man was saying, "If there is life out there, I sure hope it isn't life as we know it." Not long after that, I was one of many then-in-Peoria residents who saw a beautiful UFO hovering for about 90 minutes (according to State Troopers) over the Broadway overpass at I-74. I became a composer after that, writing lovely songs -- about life as we don't know it! Back to the Spring of 1987: It was only a few hours after my dream-meeting, and the 4th dimensional joy idea still being present, that my ex-husband, of all people, came knocking at the door and said, "I feel like I've just got to let you see this." He had rec'd a painting done by a friend in Florida -- and the scene depicted a UFO in ascent -- and 4 Beings just "standing in the sky." As Harmonic Convergence energies then built toward August 17th, my life took a dramatic and very happy turn, and I learned about Jose Arguelles' book, "The Mayan Factor." As I read it, I found myself saying, "Yeah, yeah -- this info is what I was so happy about in the dream with the 4 Beings, and the whole thing of Earth going 4th dimensional!" And everytime after that when I've heard somebody say that 2012 means "the end of the world," I always erupt with a "Yayyyyy!" -- because the end of the world as we know it, end of life as we know it, means the end of all the deception and manipulation and oppression that has brought humanity such injustice and sorrow. And 9/11 Truthers are VERY MUCH instrumental in helping bring all that about! :) ----- Original Message ----- From: Hal Snyder To: citizenstruth at six.pairlist.net Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 5:39 PM Subject: Re: [CitizensTruth] Is there anything to 2012? Thank you, Chuck, Ragen, Robin, Dan, and Kris. I sent the 2012 inquiry to a contact off-list and as a result will be facilitating a discussion of 2012 later this week. So, feel free to keep the sources coming. If I have time to put together a presentation I'll post it online and people can tear it apart make constructive suggestions. :-) Hal ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ CitizensTruth mailing list CitizensTruth at six.pairlist.net http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/citizenstruth website: http://citizenstruth.info -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rmigalla at earthlink.net Tue Jan 27 22:01:36 2009 From: rmigalla at earthlink.net (Robin Migalla) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 21:01:36 -0600 Subject: [CitizensTruth] Is there anything to 2012? Message-ID: <01C980C2.71BFDD60.rmigalla@earthlink.net> Hi Connie and all, That song by REM has been running through my head for years - "It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine." Some of you might want to take a look at a book called "From elsewhere : being E.T. in America by Scott Mendelker. Then let's talk Wanderer to Wanderer. Cheers, Robin -----Original Message----- From: Connie Smith [SMTP:dimension04 at sbcglobal.net] Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 19:22 To: Hal Snyder; citizenstruth at six.pairlist.net Subject: Re: [CitizensTruth] Is there anything to 2012? I commend Kris for her well-thought-out and articulate (as well as humble!) expressions on this subject. Glad to see all others' input, too -- AND the question itself, Hal! As for myself, I woke up from a vivid dream in the Spring of 1987 -- there was a UFO in ascent, and there were 4 Beings just sort of "standing in the sky." We had a long talk in this dream, the only thing of which I could remember when I awoke was an ecstatic awareness that could only express itself as, "We're going 4th dimensional, we're going 4th dimensional!" In a couple of hours I could barely remember even that idea, but I still felt a joy that reminded me of a Wall Street Journal cartoon I had seen in 1981 that made me laugh uproariously: A middle-aged couple were out on their patio at night, gazing at the stars, and the man was saying, "If there is life out there, I sure hope it isn't life as we know it." Not long after that, I was one of many then-in-Peoria residents who saw a beautiful UFO hovering for about 90 minutes (according to State Troopers) over the Broadway overpass at I-74. I became a composer after that, writing lovely songs -- about life as we don't know it! Back to the Spring of 1987: It was only a few hours after my dream-meeting, and the 4th dimensional joy idea still being present, that my ex-husband, of all people, came knocking at the door and said, "I feel like I've just got to let you see this." He had rec'd a painting done by a friend in Florida -- and the scene depicted a UFO in ascent -- and 4 Beings just "standing in the sky." As Harmonic Convergence energies then built toward August 17th, my life took a dramatic and very happy turn, and I learned about Jose Arguelles' book, "The Mayan Factor." As I read it, I found myself saying, "Yeah, yeah -- this info is what I was so happy about in the dream with the 4 Beings, and the whole thing of Earth going 4th dimensional!" And everytime after that when I've heard somebody say that 2012 means "the end of the world," I always erupt with a "Yayyyyy!" -- because the end of the world as we know it, end of life as we know it, means the end of all the deception and manipulation and oppression that has brought humanity such injustice and sorrow. And 9/11 Truthers are VERY MUCH instrumental in helping bring all that about! :) ----- Original Message ----- From: Hal Snyder To: citizenstruth at six.pairlist.net Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 5:39 PM Subject: Re: [CitizensTruth] Is there anything to 2012? Thank you, Chuck, Ragen, Robin, Dan, and Kris. I sent the 2012 inquiry to a contact off-list and as a result will be facilitating a discussion of 2012 later this week. So, feel free to keep the sources coming. If I have time to put together a presentation I'll post it online and people can tear it apart make constructive suggestions. :-) Hal ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------ _______________________________________________ CitizensTruth mailing list CitizensTruth at six.pairlist.net http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/citizenstruth website: http://citizenstruth.info << File: ATT00250.htm >> << File: ATT00251.txt >> From welaware at merr.com Tue Jan 27 23:31:09 2009 From: welaware at merr.com (Kris Knight) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 22:31:09 -0600 Subject: [CitizensTruth] Is there anything to 2012? In-Reply-To: <01C980C2.71BFDD60.rmigalla@earthlink.net> References: <01C980C2.71BFDD60.rmigalla@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <7DBA857F-18A6-4E2A-9DA9-E03D3EFF5275@merr.com> IT'S BEEN GREAT READING EVERYONE'S RESPONSES TO HAL'S TIMELY QUESTION. I've just spent over an hour reading and responding to a phenomenal email from a "friend" of mine re. ascension, 2012, prayer, service to self, service to others, Law of One, precession, etc. Indeed, the time is right, Hal. Kudos to you for putting it out there so we can find each other and bathe in that gratitude that we can come home to each other through this wonderful bond we have through your group..... What's next? And good luck on your presentation.....you'll never be quite the same again after you prepare for this presentation... On Jan 27, 2009, at 9:01 PM, Robin Migalla wrote: > Hi Connie and all, > > That song by REM has been running through my head for years - "It's > the end > of the world as we know it, and I feel fine." Some of you might > want to > take a look at a book called "From elsewhere : being E.T. in America > by > Scott Mendelker. Then let's talk Wanderer to Wanderer. > > Cheers, > Robin > > -----Original Message----- > From: Connie Smith [SMTP:dimension04 at sbcglobal.net] > Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 19:22 > To: Hal Snyder; citizenstruth at six.pairlist.net > Subject: Re: [CitizensTruth] Is there anything to 2012? > > > > > I commend Kris for her well-thought-out and articulate (as well as > humble!) > expressions on this subject. Glad to see all others' input, too -- > AND the > question itself, Hal! > > As for myself, I woke up from a vivid dream in the Spring of 1987 -- > there > was a UFO in ascent, and there were 4 Beings just sort of "standing > in the > sky." We had a long talk in this dream, the only thing of which I > could > remember when I awoke was an ecstatic awareness that could only > express > itself as, "We're going 4th dimensional, we're going 4th dimensional!" > > In a couple of hours I could barely remember even that idea, but I > still > felt a joy that reminded me of a Wall Street Journal cartoon I had > seen in > 1981 that made me laugh uproariously: A middle-aged couple were out > on > their patio at night, gazing at the stars, and the man was saying, "If > there is life out there, I sure hope it isn't life as we know it." > > Not long after that, I was one of many then-in-Peoria residents who > saw a > beautiful UFO hovering for about 90 minutes (according to State > Troopers) > over the Broadway overpass at I-74. I became a composer after that, > writing lovely songs -- about life as we don't know it! > > Back to the Spring of 1987: It was only a few hours after my > dream-meeting, and the 4th dimensional joy idea still being present, > that > my ex-husband, of all people, came knocking at the door and said, "I > feel > like I've just got to let you see this." He had rec'd a painting > done by a > friend in Florida -- and the scene depicted a UFO in ascent -- and 4 > Beings > just "standing in the sky." > > As Harmonic Convergence energies then built toward August 17th, my > life > took a dramatic and very happy turn, and I learned about Jose > Arguelles' > book, "The Mayan Factor." As I read it, I found myself saying, > "Yeah, yeah > -- this info is what I was so happy about in the dream with the 4 > Beings, > and the whole thing of Earth going 4th dimensional!" > > And everytime after that when I've heard somebody say that 2012 > means "the > end of the world," I always erupt with a "Yayyyyy!" -- because the > end of > the world as we know it, end of life as we know it, means the end of > all > the deception and manipulation and oppression that has brought > humanity > such injustice and sorrow. > > And 9/11 Truthers are VERY MUCH instrumental in helping bring all that > about! > > :) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Hal Snyder > To: citizenstruth at six.pairlist.net > Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 5:39 PM > Subject: Re: [CitizensTruth] Is there anything to 2012? > > > Thank you, Chuck, Ragen, Robin, Dan, and Kris. > > > I sent the 2012 inquiry to a contact off-list and as a result will be > facilitating a discussion of 2012 later this week. So, feel free to > keep > the sources coming. If I have time to put together a presentation > I'll post > it online and people can tear it apart make constructive > suggestions. :-) > > > Hal > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ------ > > > _______________________________________________ > CitizensTruth mailing list > CitizensTruth at six.pairlist.net > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/citizenstruth > website: http://citizenstruth.info > << File: ATT00250.htm >> << File: ATT00251.txt >> > _______________________________________________ > CitizensTruth mailing list > CitizensTruth at six.pairlist.net > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/citizenstruth > website: http://citizenstruth.info Kris Knight of WellAware Life Enhancement Center Phone: 1-608-ALL-LIFE welaware at merr.com From futurenotwritten at yahoo.com Wed Jan 28 08:21:05 2009 From: futurenotwritten at yahoo.com (Jay Becker) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 05:21:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: [CitizensTruth] Is there anything to 2012? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <562028.92630.qm@web33505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I agree with Kris that sticking labels on other people's understanding of complex reality is usually a means to avoid (and scare other people off from) looking at what that person or people have to say, so "flim flam" or "new age" doesn't tell me or others very much. Yes, there are huge forces at work in the world in this moment and we are in a time of great turnings and great possibilities, in many but not all directions, but I don't think those forces are being moved by the alignment of planets or other heavenly bodies. I think we're seeing what Ray Lotta wrote about when he used this analogy, "To use an analogy to the complex motions of large parts of the Earth?s crust and upper mantle, this is a discussion of shifting tectonic plates in the world economy: some of their longer-term movements and some of the more sudden and unexpected eruptions," at http://revcom.us/a/136/lotta_faultlines_pt1-en.html We've certainly been experiencing some of those eruptions, and I'm sure there are many and far greater to come. (And just forget the COMA--corporate media--as a tool to understand much beyond what the establishment wants us to think!) But I don't think any of these will bring down the empire or end "life as we know it" in any good kind of way at all, any way that liberates the creativity and power of imagination that we could be applying to solve these great problems facing humanity, which I do believe is quite possible--that is, not without our conscious intervention in massive ways. No, as long as the forces of the status qua have their hands on the levers of power, and they are perceived as having the only 'legitimate use of armed force,' they will bludgeon their way through whatever crises they face. We're seeing that right now! The good news is, I also think that all this suffering is totally unnecessary and a better way is possible, if we seize state power from their greedy, blood-soaked hands and put the huge resources, incredible technological and scientific advances already available (but so stultified and corrupted by their necessary enslavement to capital today) to work in the interests of humanity. If you want to get just a glimpse of that, check out just the first few pages of this: http://revcom.us/Constitution/constitution.html. It's profound, profoundly true, and poetic: All of this is unnecessary, it's on us, and we can do it. And keep going in your explorations, we really do have a world to win! Jay --- On Tue, 1/27/09, Hal Snyder wrote: From: Hal Snyder Subject: Re: [CitizensTruth] Is there anything to 2012? To: citizenstruth at six.pairlist.net Date: Tuesday, January 27, 2009, 5:39 PM Thank you, Chuck, Ragen, Robin, Dan, and Kris. I sent the 2012 inquiry to a contact off-list and as a result will be facilitating a discussion of 2012 later this week. So, feel free to keep the sources coming. If I have time to put together a presentation I'll post it online and people can tear it apart make constructive suggestions. :-) Hal_______________________________________________ CitizensTruth mailing list CitizensTruth at six.pairlist.net http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/citizenstruth website: http://citizenstruth.info -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rmigalla at earthlink.net Wed Jan 28 08:49:19 2009 From: rmigalla at earthlink.net (Robin Migalla) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 07:49:19 -0600 Subject: [CitizensTruth] Is there anything to 2012? Message-ID: <01C9811C.EDAA2CF0.rmigalla@earthlink.net> Hi Jay and All, Maybe there's a better way than seizing the power. Maybe we can try the judo approach (or permaculture approach if you will), and that would be to find a way to harness the impetus of their efforts for our own agenda of world peace, harmony, liberty, and justice for all. Just a little fodder for thought. I love all of you folks on this list and am honored to be counted among you. Cheers, Robin -----Original Message----- From: Jay Becker [SMTP:futurenotwritten at yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 07:21 To: citizenstruth at six.pairlist.net; Hal Snyder Subject: Re: [CitizensTruth] Is there anything to 2012? I agree with Kris that sticking labels on other people's understanding of complex reality is usually a means to avoid (and scare other people off from) looking at what that person or people have to say, so "flim flam" or "new age" doesn't tell me or others very much. Yes, there are huge forces at work in the world in this moment and we are in a time of great turnings and great possibilities, in many but not all directions, but I don't think those forces are being moved by the alignment of planets or other heavenly bodies. I think we're seeing what Ray Lotta wrote about when he used this analogy, "To use an analogy to the complex motions of large parts of the Earthcs crust and upper mantle, this is a discussion of shifting tectonic plates in the world economy: some of their longer-term movements and some of the more sudden and unexpected eruptions," at http://revcom.us/a/136/lotta_faultlines_pt1-en.html We've certainly been experiencing some of those eruptions, and I'm sure there are many and far greater to come. (And just forget the COMA--corporate media--as a tool to understand much beyond what the establishment wants us to think!) But I don't think any of these will bring down the empire or end "life as we know it" in any good kind of way at all, any way that liberates the creativity and power of imagination that we could be applying to solve these great problems facing humanity, which I do believe is quite possible--that is, not without our conscious intervention in massive ways. No, as long as the forces of the status qua have their hands on the levers of power, and they are perceived as having the only 'legitimate use of armed force,' they will bludgeon their way through whatever crises they face. We're seeing that right now! The good news is, I also think that all this suffering is totally unnecessary and a better way is possible, if we seize state power from their greedy, blood-soaked hands and put the huge resources, incredible technological and scientific advances already available (but so stultified and corrupted by their necessary enslavement to capital today) to work in the interests of humanity. If you want to get just a glimpse of that, check out just the first few pages of this: http://revcom.us/Constitution/constitution.html. It's profound, profoundly true, and poetic: All of this is unnecessary, it's on us, and we can do it. And keep going in your explorations, we really do have a world to win! Jay --- On Tue, 1/27/09, Hal Snyder wrote: From: Hal Snyder Subject: Re: [CitizensTruth] Is there anything to 2012? To: citizenstruth at six.pairlist.net Date: Tuesday, January 27, 2009, 5:39 PM Thank you, Chuck, Ragen, Robin, Dan, and Kris. I sent the 2012 inquiry to a contact off-list and as a result will be facilitating a discussion of 2012 later this week. So, feel free to keep the sources coming. If I have time to put together a presentation I'll post it online and people can tear it apart make constructive suggestions. :-) Hal_______________________________________________ CitizensTruth mailing list CitizensTruth at six.pairlist.net http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/citizenstruth website: http://citizenstruth.info << File: ATT00255.htm; charset = iso-8859-7 >> << File: ATT00256.txt >> From dimension04 at sbcglobal.net Wed Jan 28 10:21:04 2009 From: dimension04 at sbcglobal.net (Connie Smith) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 09:21:04 -0600 Subject: [CitizensTruth] Is there anything to 2012? In-Reply-To: <562028.92630.qm@web33505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <562028.92630.qm@web33505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4365C3D55A2144AA9CA3D22357183885@InspironConnie> Jay writes: "But I don't think any of these will bring down the empire or end "life as we know it" in any good kind of way at all, any way that liberates the creativity and power of imagination that we could be applying to solve these great problems facing humanity, which I do believe is quite possible--that is, not without our conscious intervention in massive ways." I must not have written clearly, Jay. What you're saying here is exactly what I thought I conveyed -- what I believe 2012 and the before-and-after energies will indeed accomplish -- ESPECIALLY your words "liberates the creativity and power of imagination" to solve our problems. I get SO MUCH e-mail from progressive people and groups which demonstrate how clearly this has very healthily begun! Connie ----- Original Message ----- From: Jay Becker To: citizenstruth at six.pairlist.net ; Hal Snyder Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 7:21 AM Subject: Re: [CitizensTruth] Is there anything to 2012? I agree with Kris that sticking labels on other people's understanding of complex reality is usually a means to avoid (and scare other people off from) looking at what that person or people have to say, so "flim flam" or "new age" doesn't tell me or others very much. Yes, there are huge forces at work in the world in this moment and we are in a time of great turnings and great possibilities, in many but not all directions, but I don't think those forces are being moved by the alignment of planets or other heavenly bodies. I think we're seeing what Ray Lotta wrote about when he used this analogy, "To use an analogy to the complex motions of large parts of the Earth?s crust and upper mantle, this is a discussion of shifting tectonic plates in the world economy: some of their longer-term movements and some of the more sudden and unexpected eruptions," at http://revcom.us/a/136/lotta_faultlines_pt1-en.html We've certainly been experiencing some of those eruptions, and I'm sure there are many and far greater to come. (And just forget the COMA--corporate media--as a tool to understand much beyond what the establishment wants us to think!) But I don't think any of these will bring down the empire or end "life as we know it" in any good kind of way at all, any way that liberates the creativity and power of imagination that we could be applying to solve these great problems facing humanity, which I do believe is quite possible--that is, not without our conscious intervention in massive ways. No, as long as the forces of the status qua have their hands on the levers of power, and they are perceived as having the only 'legitimate use of armed force,' they will bludgeon their way through whatever crises they face. We're seeing that right now! The good news is, I also think that all this suffering is totally unnecessary and a better way is possible, if we seize state power from their greedy, blood-soaked hands and put the huge resources, incredible technological and scientific advances already available (but so stultified and corrupted by their necessary enslavement to capital today) to work in the interests of humanity. If you want to get just a glimpse of that, check out just the first few pages of this: http://revcom.us/Constitution/constitution.html. It's profound, profoundly true, and poetic: All of this is unnecessary, it's on us, and we can do it. And keep going in your explorations, we really do have a world to win! Jay --- On Tue, 1/27/09, Hal Snyder wrote: From: Hal Snyder Subject: Re: [CitizensTruth] Is there anything to 2012? To: citizenstruth at six.pairlist.net Date: Tuesday, January 27, 2009, 5:39 PM Thank you, Chuck, Ragen, Robin, Dan, and Kris. I sent the 2012 inquiry to a contact off-list and as a result will be facilitating a discussion of 2012 later this week. So, feel free to keep the sources coming. If I have time to put together a presentation I'll post it online and people can tear it apart make constructive suggestions. :-) Hal _______________________________________________CitizensTruth mailing listCitizensTruth at six.pairlist.nethttp://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/citizenstruthwebsite: http://citizenstruth.info ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ CitizensTruth mailing list CitizensTruth at six.pairlist.net http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/citizenstruth website: http://citizenstruth.info -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mjkirk12 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 28 10:26:34 2009 From: mjkirk12 at yahoo.com (Mike Kirk) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 07:26:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: [CitizensTruth] Banking crisis in perspective - 4 min. YouTube video Message-ID: <463162.16657.qm@web83804.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> 4 minutes - worth the watch. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZsY1rFr_yw -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Walterb306 at cs.com Wed Jan 28 10:56:43 2009 From: Walterb306 at cs.com (Walterb306 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 10:56:43 EST Subject: [CitizensTruth] ARTICLE-Stiffed - Why are bailed out banks helping Pfizer buy Wyeth Message-ID: All, Rhetorical question. (See title of Loeb's article, Why are bailed out banks helping Pfizer buy Wyeth?) But, of course, greed is just part of the answer. We need to dig a little deeper: .They can do it. . At some point, the obsession becomes overwhelming and uncontrollable, as one financial wheeler-dealer was quoted as saying in Naomi Klein's The Shock Doctrine about a "chemical that gets released in the stomach" that is irresistible after making a 1000% profit. (I kid you not.) . It gets to be a game and the human perspective (the rest of us, the cattle) are way, way, way down the list of priorities . They control the media (and know it) and manage the public debate to a great degree, define the terms, filter the information, set the main frames, such as Milton Friedman's Capitalism and Freedom. How can you be against "freedom" What is left out of this handy little equation is the question "freedom for WHOM?" The market, not the people, it has turned out - in Chile, in Argentina, in South Africa, in Russia, in Poland -----in the good old USA. . WE LET THEM "It's not fair; it's often marginally legal or downright illegal; it's destructive; it's endangering the planet." Keep upping the ante, but these arguments won't work with individuals of this mentality. They don't listen. They, apparently, don't dare. They, apparently, can not help themselves. So we have to push the regulators, vote with our purchases, push Congress, join advocacy groups, get information, identify the culprits, bring the information to light and we will have to keep at it. And we had better get going. The longer we hesitate, drivert ourselves in inaction, the worse things get, the more money, power, and momentum shifts to the small elite minority. My two cents. Beverley Stiffed: Why Are Bailed-Out Banks Helping Pfizer Buy Wyeth? huffington_post:http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-loeb/stiffed-why-are-bailed -ou_b_161439.html Paul Loeb, author of Soul of a Citizen January 2, 2009 Are U.S. taxpayers getting stiffed? Pfizer, Viagra's daddy, is using money from taxpayer-bailed-out banks to help buy major pharmaceutical competitor Wyeth in a $68 billion deal . That won't help taxpayers or consumers. Nor is it designed to. It will harm the companies' workers, 20,000 of whom will likely be laid off. It's even likely to hurt small bio-tech companies, drying up potential sources of capital and leaving fewer potential major investors or purchasers. The deal may be good for Pfizer, helping the company recover from a $2.3 billion legal settlement over misleading marketing on the pain reliever Bextra, and helping them amplify the clout of the $3 million they recently spent lobbying against the right to import cheaper drugs from Canada. But it won't help the rest of us. So why are banks bailed out with taxpayer dollars furnishing the $22.5 billion of debt financing for this deal? On NPR, a financial analyst crowed about how wonderful it was that major banks were lending this kind of money in the current economy. But it troubles me that among the deal's prime financial backers--Bank of America/Merrill Lynch, Barclays, Citigroup, Goldman Sachs and J.P. Morgan/Chase--all but the British-owned Barclays received money from the Congressional bailout. So the funds they lent to this merger won't be available to help smaller (or larger) companies keep their doors open producing and selling products--ideally ones that actually benefit society--and not just to consolidate control over their industry. This seems one more case of public subsidies for private gain. I'm no economist. For all I know, maybe in some Henry Paulson-Alan Greenspan dream world this will end up boosting America's physical and fiscal health. Perhaps the new combined entity will come up with some miracle drug that neither company would have created on their own. But mostly, it seems just one more example of how a bailout without strong government control, or even oversight, just feeds the same greed-driven abuses that have gotten us into our current predicament. It's going to take more than Viagra to strengthen our economy once more. Paul Rogat Loeb is the author of The Impossible Will Take a Little While: A Citizen's Guide to Hope in a Time of Fear, named the #3 political book of 2004 by the History Channel and the American Book Association. His previous books include Soul of a Citizen: Living with Conviction in a Cynical Time. See www.paulloeb.org To receive his articles directly email sympa at lists.onenw.org with the subject line: subscribe paulloeb-articles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From edward_rynearson at yahoo.com Wed Jan 28 11:16:51 2009 From: edward_rynearson at yahoo.com (Edward Rynearson) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 08:16:51 -0800 (PST) Subject: [CitizensTruth] NOVA Investigates the NSA In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <301499.76547.qm@web30005.mail.mud.yahoo.com> NOVA Investigates the NSA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7kZhTjjYyY Not sure if you caught this on DemocracyNow last October: October 14, 2008 Amy Goodman talks with James Bamford, an American bestselling author and journalist who writes about United States intelligence agencies, and he drops a bomb shell (which doesn't seem to warrant a follow-up question from Ms Goodman) about how the 9/11 plotters set-up shop within eye site (sans trees - 6.1 miles) of NSA Headquarters, worked out at the nearby Gold's Gym, shopped at the nearby Safeway and ate at the same restaurants as NSA employees. http://www.radiodujour.com/people/bamford_james/ ************************* AMY GOODMAN: You say that they set up their final base of operations almost next door to the NSA headquarters in Laurel, Maryland? JAMES BAMFORD: Well, that's the ultimate irony, was they eventually travel across country from San Diego, and they set up their final base of operations-these are the-this is the crew that was about to attack the Pentagon-about a month before, they set up their base of operations in Laurel, Maryland, of all places, that happens to be the same city that NSA is headquartered. So they set up their base of operations in this Valencia Motel, and almost across the Baltimore-Washington Parkway is NSA headquarters. The director's office is on the eighth floor, and, except for some trees, he could almost see the motel where they're staying. So, NSA is over there trying to find terrorists, and here is the 9/11 terrorists sitting right opposite the NSA on the other side of the parkway making their final plans. Mohamed Atta flew there for summit meetings. And they had to take three hotels at one point to put all the people there. So, as NSA is looking for them, they're having their final summit meetings there, and they're walking around the Safeway, they're exercising in Gold's Gym, they're eating in the restaurants there, they're mingling with NSA employees. That's NSA's company town. It's just the ultimate irony that here you have the terrorists and the eavesdroppers living side by side in the month before the final attack. From mjkirk12 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 28 14:17:14 2009 From: mjkirk12 at yahoo.com (Mike Kirk) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 11:17:14 -0800 (PST) Subject: [CitizensTruth] Good site on Gitmo fiasco Message-ID: <635917.54823.qm@web83803.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> What a travesty of justice.... http://www.andyworthington.co.uk/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aqmstaffo at mailbag.com Thu Jan 29 11:20:20 2009 From: aqmstaffo at mailbag.com (Daniel Stafford) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 10:20:20 -0600 Subject: [CitizensTruth] Excellent article from Tree Hugger on local currencies - including current ones Message-ID: <4981D744.9090500@mailbag.com> http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/01/print-your-own-money-build-community.php Enjoy - Dan Stafford From mincam2 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 29 14:54:20 2009 From: mincam2 at yahoo.com (Chuck Minne) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 11:54:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: [CitizensTruth] Clifford Stone In-Reply-To: <4981D744.9090500@mailbag.com> Message-ID: <926379.92491.qm@web36908.mail.mud.yahoo.com> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2DNSEKx1aM&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIZrwlOGSTk&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5W_3aneRPOg ? ? "I have lost faith, godammit! I put my faith in the People and that was a mistake! This is a shit people! They get stolen blind by their politicians and they lick their boots. They send their kids off to die for somebody's business deal and they celebrate it like they're doing something heroic! This great and glorious people! Lazy sacks of junk food and jingo!" ? From: "The Army of the Republic"? by Stuart Archer Cohen ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aroyboy44 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 29 17:46:07 2009 From: aroyboy44 at hotmail.com (andrew ritter) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 22:46:07 +0000 Subject: [CitizensTruth] OBAMA's Lawyers set to defend Yoo against Jose Padilla In-Reply-To: <926379.92491.qm@web36908.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <4981D744.9090500@mailbag.com> <926379.92491.qm@web36908.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Obama Lawyers Set to Defend Yoo Wednesday 28 January 2009 http://www.truthout.org/012809S by: Josh Gerstein, The Politico John Yoo, credited with writing what are known as the torture memos, is being sued by Jose Padilla over aggressive interrogation techniques Padilla endured at a South Carolina Navy brig. (Photo: (Karen Ballard / The Los Angeles Times) In Democratic legal circles, no attorney has been more pilloried than former Bush Justice Department official John Yoo, chief author of the so-called torture memos that Barack Obama last week sought to nullify. But now President Obama's incoming crew of lawyers has a new and somewhat awkward job: defending Yoo in federal court. Next week, Justice Department lawyers are set to ask a San Francisco federal judge to throw out a lawsuit brought against Yoo by Jose Padilla, a New York man held without charges on suspicion of being an Al Qaeda operative plotting to set off a "dirty bomb." The suit contends that Yoo's legal opinions authorized Bush to order Padilla's detention in a Navy brig in South Carolina and encouraged military officials to subject Padilla to aggressive interrogation techniques, including death threats and long-term sensory deprivation. That's not all. On Thursday, Justice Department lawyers are slated to be in Charleston, S.C., to ask a federal magistrate there to dismiss another lawsuit charging about a dozen current and former government officials with violating Padilla's rights in connection with his unusual detention on U.S. soil, without charges or a trial. The defendants in that case are like a who's who of Bush administration boogeymen to Obama's liberal followers - former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, his deputy Paul Wolfowitz and former Attorney General John Ashcroft. The two cases raise the question of how aggressively the Obama administration intends to defend alleged legal excesses of the Bush administration in the war on terror. The Supreme Court recently gave the new president until March to decide whether to defend the detention without trial of another man held as an enemy combatant, Ali Saleh Al-Marri. And with more than a hundred court cases pending relating to Guantanamo, the Obama team faces a fast and furious series of deadlines to adopt or reject the Bush administration's stance regarding specific detainees. "This is going to happen again and again across the government," said Karen Greenberg, the executive director of the Center on Law and Security at New York University. "They're between a rock and a hard place." Obama's lawyers aren't the first at Justice to have to stand by a prior administration's legal work - whether they agree with it or not - merely in the interest of protecting U.S. government prerogatives. But the Bush war-on-terror team inspires particular antipathy in the liberal legal set - and none more than Yoo, who became a sort of symbol of the Bush administration's efforts to construct a carefully crafted legal framework to justify practices that critics say are torture. "When they go back to the privacy of their offices, they may wish that someone would draw and quarter John Yoo, but they have to wave the flag," said a former federal terrorism prosecutor, Andrew McCarthy. "What they have to do is appear as if they are defending all the prerogatives of government that people want them to defend. ... That's the job of the Justice Department." Padilla's lawyers, who are affiliated with a human rights clinic at Yale Law School, declined to comment for this article. Yoo also declined to be interviewed, though in an op-ed piece for The Wall Street Journal last year he described himself as the victim of an attempt to use "the tort system to harass those who served in government in wartime." Obama's appointee for attorney general, Eric Holder, has taken issue with some of Yoo's conclusions but does not appear to have singled him out by name. "I never thought I would see the day when a Justice Department would claim that only the most extreme infliction of pain and physical abuse constitutes torture," Holder said in a speech last year, alluding to a 2002 memo Yoo wrote. Holder said the Bush administration was "wrong" when it "authorized the use of torture," when it "secretly detained Americans without due process" and for violating the Constitution, though he said he did not take issue with the "motives" of those who helped set the policies. Other Obama Justice Department appointees have been far more strident in their criticism of Yoo. In an article in Slate just last year, Obama's pick to head the Office of Legal Counsel, Dawn Johnsen of Indiana University, called one of Yoo's memos "plainly flawed" and his defense of it "irresponsibly and dangerously false." Johnsen was so vocal in her criticism of Yoo that a liberal magazine, Mother Jones, branded her the "anti-Yoo." A leading authority on legal ethics, Stephen Gillers, said the incoming officials' criticism of the former Bush officials has been so withering that they should press to be defended by their own lawyers - at government expense. "If I were counseling Yoo or Rumsfeld, I would certainly advise them to have private counsel or shadow counsel," Gillers said. "The defense has to be put in the hands of people who have not been vocal in condemning Rumsfeld and Yoo and who have not taken a public position on the legality of their conduct." Obama also seems to be no fan of Yoo's work. One of the new president's first acts upon taking office last week was to nullify every detainee-related legal opinion issued during the Bush administration by the unit Yoo worked in, the Office of Legal Counsel. Some liberal lawyers have suggested Yoo or other officials should face not just civil suits but a full-scale investigation into possible war crimes. "People really haven't been talking about civil exposure. People have been talking more about potential criminal exposure," said Eugene Fidell, an attorney specializing in military law. While such questions swirled during Holder's confirmation hearings, Gillers said he thinks the chances of such a prosecution against Yoo remain slim. "I think he still has no worry about that," Gillers said. To an extent, the lawsuits against Yoo and Rumsfeld are symbolic. Padilla was transferred from military to civilian custody in 2006. A jury later convicted him on conspiracy charges unrelated to the alleged "dirty bomb" plot. A judge sentenced him to 17 years in prison, though an appeal is pending. While Padilla does want an order barring another involuntary trip to the brig, each suit seeks only $1 in damages, plus legal fees. At present, it doesn't look like Yoo's sharpest critics will end up directly in the chain of command responding to the civil lawsuits. Obama has tapped an Oakland, Calif., lawyer, Tony West, to head up DOJ's civil division, which has primary responsibility for such cases. West hasn't played a vocal role in the debate over detainee policy, but he was one of the lawyers for John Walker Lindh, the so-called American Taliban caught in Afghanistan. A former lawyer in Bush's White House, Brad Berenson, said he expects the new Obama officials not only to defend against the suits but to win them. "There are just all kinds of doctrines that protect government officials, even when they're wrong," he said. "The dirty little secret here is that the United States government has enduring institutional interests that carry over from administration to administration and almost always dictate the position the government takes." _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_allup_explore_012009 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: