[CitizensTruth] Ron Paul - J'Accuse [was: Kissinger, Obama, The FED ...]

[Geri Perry]

Well . . .

Here's my two cents.

First the Constitution DOES have the authority for "public projects" as 
I will call them - through the general welfare clause.

Problem is, the federal government is NOT "providing" for the general 
welfare when it puts the nation into debt through its money system and 
then raises taxes as a means of paying for that debt. This debt-money 
system then forces a top down managed economy which rewards the squeaky 
wheel (not to mention corrupt politicians and businessmen). All this 
then in effect pits one interest group against another. AND -  this top 
down, micro-managed system of favoritism is NOT Constitutional! To wit: 
Congress is charged with providing for the GENERAL welfare!!!

Another point for debate. Do we REALLY want the federal government 
telling us when and how high to jump in order to "qualify" for an 
officially sanctioned (toxic) health treatment or provider? I don't, but 
inasmuch as 80% of the populace wants some sort of health care "benefit" 
then I do think we need to consider how this might best be done.

One thing for sure, REAL health care CANNOT be accomplished without a 
permanent return to Constitutional money! For those who think gold is 
money, PLEASE read the Constitution! You might also read the first 
article of my series called The Ron Paul Phenomenon Is Not Dead: 
http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/05/evaluating-the-message/

As to the United Nations, I hope you ALL think carefully about that 
Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Was it just a cover for a hidden 
agenda?

PLEASE do read through my slide presentation (Ignore typos I will 
correct as soon as I can): 
http://www.thetwofacesofmoney.com/index.php/Site/TheEncroachingEconomicPoliceState

and then do more research. The UN is simply part of the economic matrix. 
Watch Hotel Rwanda to see how effective it is at peacekeeping.

As to states being sovereign and independent, that is fodder for another 
discussion.

Geraldine Perry


Hal Snyder wrote:

> Gary, you make some interesting points. Let's continue this debate.

>

> First, on the issue of deferring health care reform to the states, I 

> put to you that there is a historical pattern.

>

> Resort to states' rights is an endgame tactic when opposition to 

> reform becomes /morally indefensible/ to the majority of the 

> nation. It is a /delaying tactic/ intended to draw out a /long train 

> of abuses/ (slavery is a case in point) and preserve the status quo 

> against the irresistable forces of change.

>

> Our nation is the last in the industrialized world to provide 

> universal, not-for-profit-health care to every resident. We are 

> debating it now, just as we are debating whether the world was created 

> a few thousand years ago. It is as if people were still discussing the 

> merits of slavery or whether women should vote, long after the rest of 

> civil society has moved on. Not coincidentally, both the right for 

> women to vote and the right to medical care were included in the 1948 

> UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

>

> A person has only to review just a few of the thousands of personal 

> accounts, for example here

> http://stories.barackobama.com/healthcare

> to understand that health care reform is long past due.

>

> I am aware of numerous abuses of government at any level. I got a 

> recent reminder this week when a friend mailed me a report of the 

> police raid (with pepper spray) of the Busby 

> fundraiser. http://www.truthout.org/070209L

>

> On the other hand, each of us has a personal responsibility for our 

> share of the commons. The most obvious examples of this are 

> custodianship of air, water, and soil, but it goes far beyond that. 

> Rivers and winds and aquifers pay no regard to man-made boundaries of 

> state and nation. There is no opting out of this fundamental 

> responsibility, any more than there is opting out of any evolving 

> standard of basic human decency. The need to cooperate with others 

> becomes increasingly urgent as humanity increasingly challenges the 

> physical limits of our planetary life support system.

>

> Happy 4th, all.

>

> Hal

>

> On Jun 27, 2009, at 1:08 PM, Gary Franchi wrote:

>

>> Thanks Hal, glad you liked the production work... it's been a long 

>> road to get it up to that level...

>>

>> but anyway... I can see your points and respect them, however the 

>> bottom line is the Federal Government doesn't have the authority for 

>> any of the programs you spoke of. Now would it be wise to wipe out 

>> medicare overnight? No way! Am I for casting aside the uninsurable? 

>> No way!

>>

>> The government has grown far beyond its intended purpose and I am all 

>> for states offing programs to fill the healthcare void if they see 

>> fit... but mandating it for the whole nation with no opt-out feature?

>>

>> I remember when I got my first paycheck and I saw all the crazy 

>> deductions the Federal Government took... I was like What the Hell, 

>> no one asked me! Building an opt-out feature and let the people 

>> choose to participate is how things should be done... this includes, 

>> social-security, medicare, and every other program the corrupt 

>> politicians decide to throw our way...

>>

>> It's a state issue, this is a nation made up of sovereign independent 

>> states designed to check the Feds and fill the void...

>>

>> As for the fire department analogy... it is irrelevant because at the 

>> local level the local taxes cover it... and I am not opposed to that.

>>

>> -Gary

>>

>>

>> On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 10:58 AM, Hal Snyder <hal at drxyzzy.org 

>> <mailto:hal at drxyzzy.org>> wrote:

>>

>>     Nice job in production and post with the video installment, Gary.

>>

>>     But Ron Paul on *"socialized healthcare"?* He uses a combination

>>     of /scare talk/ and /non sequiturs/. Didn't convince me at all. 

>>

>>     /J'accuse./ I say it's time to stand up to Ron Paul and all the

>>     others who have marinated our culture in their free-market

>>     flim-flam for decades.

>>

>>     Let's have some debate. We came together on this mailing list

>>     with a common interest. Maybe it's time to discuss our differences.

>>

>>     Hal

>>

>>     "government crisis rather than medical crisis" - this is pure

>>     rhetoric; he offers *no facts* to back this up. Tell the 47

>>     million people on Medicare that you're going to cancel their

>>     evil, socialized, health care plans and they can go apply for

>>     coverage in the free market. Tell the ones who are not completely

>>     uninsurable due to a pre-existing condition that they can trade

>>     the 3% overhead of Medicare for a private plan with 30% overhead

>>     where any funds spent on actual health care are considered

>>     "medical loss".

>>

>>     Ron Paul says most people don't talk about why medical costs are

>>     so high. Actually there is a lot of discussion going on about

>>     this. Private insurers keep 25% to 50% of premiums as profit and

>>     overhead. They spend our health care dollars on CEO salaries,

>>     marketing, underwriting, and a mushrooming bureaucracy whose sole

>>     purpose is to deny paying for care.

>>

>>     Ron Paul talks about choice without mentioning the limits of the

>>     present system. We have 94% of insurance markets in the United

>>     States highly concentrated, with insurers thriving in the

>>     anti-competitive "free market", raking in enormous profits. This

>>     is hardly a "reaction to government" as Ron Paul says; it is

>>     /profiteering/ in the worst way, getting rich off the suffering

>>     of others. One quarter to one half people employed in the U.S.

>>     complain about /job lock/ - we are stuck in dead-end jobs, just

>>     to get some level of coverage. Meanwhile, health plans offered by

>>     employers - decreasing every day - are limited in number and

>>     limited in benefits.

>>

>>     Tax credits are regressive. The let the fat cats off the hook and

>>     give a few dollars to the rest of us. They don't help if you're

>>     unemployed or just getting by.

>>

>>     You want choice, look at Australia, where people pay a flat 1.5%

>>     personal income tax to cover their major health care needs,

>>     regardless of who employs them or whether they have a job at all.

>>     You are free to choose your doctor and other practitioners. You

>>     are free to start your own business, take time between jobs to

>>     care for a loved one, or change careers, and still have

>>     uninterrupted affordable, quality care.

>>

>>     "if the government starts a program, we ought to have the right

>>     to opt out of the program"... This is deceptively simplistic and

>>     ignores how deeply interconnected people are today. Consider fire

>>     departments. Do you want to opt out of paying for fire

>>     protection? If you do, you raise the cost for others and put your

>>     neighbors at risk. What about programs to protect the

>>     environment? Anyone living comfortably in this society is reaping

>>     the benefits of a system we all put in place.

>>

>>     Fire Care - here's a video extending the fire department analogy

>>     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhpUG4apgrE

>>

>>     On Jun 26, 2009, at 10:35 PM, Gary Franchi wrote:

>>

>>>     *Reality Report* /(episode 12) /

>>>     *Kissinger, Obama, The FED and Mark Kirk Confess, featuring Ron

>>>     Paul and Alex Jones*

>>>

>>>     Watch it here: http://blip.tv/file/2282584

>>>

>>>     This Reality Report is stuffed to the gills with info just for

>>>     you! We've got Kissinger calling to over throw Iran and Obama

>>>     telling us we've done it before! We have the Federal Reserve

>>>     confessing they misplaced a Trillion or so of your dollars and a

>>>     few guys who are fighting Congressman Mark Kirk to get some

>>>     transparency for the US Central Bank through HR 1207.

>>>

>>>     We also have the extended report from Jekyll Island with

>>>     Katherine Albrecht, Bob Schulz, Adam Kokesh, Clyde Cleveland,

>>>     Ernest Hancock, G. Edward Griffin, Michael Badnarik and more.

>>>

>>>     To add to the fun Gary Franchi will take you deep inside Alex

>>>     Jones Studios for an exclusive behind the scenes look while

>>>     filming for Camp FEMA.

>>>

>>>     And to put the icing on the cake, Ron Paul makes an appearance

>>>     to share his thoughts on Socialized Health Care.

>>>

>>>     Oh and that squirmy Dictator Kim Jong Il rears his ugly head to

>>>     shout some threats at the United States.

>>>

>>>     With appearances by: Mark Kirk, Ron Paul, Alex Jones, Katherine

>>>     Albrecht, Adam Kokesh, Clyde Cleveland, Ernest Hancock, Ernest

>>>     Guy Cunningham, G. Edward Griffin, Michael Badnarik, Dr. Bob

>>>     Frady and more!

>>>

>>>     *This is one jam packed report that you need to see and share!*

>>>

>>>     Watch it here: http://blip.tv/file/2282584

>>>     _______________________________________________

>>>

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>>>     website: http://citizenstruth.info

>>

>>

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