[CitizensTruth] Why be on this list if...

[Geri Perry]

Yep,

We are not merely rational beings.  So, it does seem that "when the 
student is ready the teacher will appear".

With respect to health care - or what I call sickness care which has 
been so craftily devised to support agribusiness, big-pharma and the 
insurance industries - what has recently gone on in the public debate is 
not even about said "health/sickness" care but rather it is about 
"insurance care" as Dennis Kucinich dubbed it. This is absolutely 
criminal IMO.

In an important way I agree with Robin that health care, especially as 
now understood, should be carefully considered from every possible angle 
BEFORE it becomes a "public project".  This cautionary approach does 
recognize the fact that - if we are to believe opinion polls and in this 
case I do - the overwhelming majority of Americans support some kind of 
"reform". Unfortunately this support may speak more to psychological and 
physical dependence on bad food and toxic drugs than to a desire and 
outright NEED for REAL health care.

The main stumbling blocks and sources for confusion for most people 
include the fact that some (like myself) are adamantly opposed to big 
government deciding which treatments and monetary payments pass "muster" 
or are REQUIRED, as in vaccines and more, much more. Another problem has 
to do with "how to pay for it all". Both of these problems MUST be 
addressed before we can come to a workable,  truly equitable, long term 
solution.

One of the many outstanding features of the original Kucinich plan was 
that it provided for FREEDOM OF CHOICE FOR TREATMENT, AND FREEDOM OF 
CHOICE OF PROVIDER - INCLUDING NATURAL REMEDIES AND SUPPLEMENTS.  His 
original plan also took insurance companies out of the equation, using 
the Medicare system as the conduit. This in large measure created 
"health care for people not for profits" as the 30% or so overhead going 
to insurance companies was eliminated. However, it still allowed for a 
certain amount of government interference with individual situations not 
to mention plenty of "waste, fraud and abuse", if the record of Medicare 
is any guide.

Just as problematic is that - currently - in order for our government to 
be able to offer "universal health care" or even assistance to those who 
cannot afford to pay for health insurance - the government will HAVE to 
borrow and/or raise taxes, charge fees, privatize more public assets on 
which more fees will be charged - and devise whatever other scheme they 
can in order to pay the interest on the old debt and the new debt. THAT 
affects ALL of us. Keep in mind also that other countries with single 
payer or universal health (sickness) care are drowning in debt, just 
like we are. Those systems are in other words crumbling.

We need systemic change which will not leave out anyone, which will not 
layer on additional tax burdens but rather SUBSTANTIALLY REDUCE tax 
burdens, and which will remove a "higher authority" whether it be 
insurance companies, the medical industry or the government dictating to 
us what our choices are - and which will be structured so as to 
dramatically reduce the influence that big pharma, agribusiness and the 
insurance industry now exert over our individual choices.

So-o-o in addition to reducing the debt load by insisting Congress do 
its Constitutional duty and create debt "free" money, we may want to 
rethink how best to design a program that gets the government as well as 
the insurance and medical industries out of the business of telling we 
the people what is covered, what is NOT covered, and how many hoops we 
have to jump through in order to access that coverage.

Such a "public project" is Constitutional if structured properly. But at 
this juncture maybe not so desirable.

Geraldine Perry


Hal Snyder wrote:

> Robin, I had a similar experience. It wasn't just WTC 7 or even 9/11. 

> When I started waking up and looking around at what was going on, it 

> was like being punched in the stomach every day. For me it was the 

> double hit of 1) serious problems and 2) people around me refusing to 

> look. It was like waking up inside a remake of Invasion of the Body 

> Snatchers or They Live.

>

> We are not (merely) rational beings. When a dialogue impacts a 

> person's fundamental belief system, how he/she responds will depend on 

> framing and subtext and allegiances and so on - that is why you will 

> see people in a town hall cheering for one thing one moment and 

> something completely contradictory the next, and why people on Fox can 

> get away with contradicting themselves day after day.

>

> There is a positive side. For the past year I've been doing a lot of 

> organizing around health care reform. You might agree or disagree with 

> my stand, but I would not have traded this time for anything. It has 

> been an opportunity to see people - literally, hundreds of my 

> neighbors - emerge from isolation and frustration and realize they are 

> not facing things alone, they are not powerless. There is something 

> profoundly uplifting about people coming together, working on ways to 

> make our society more compassionate and focusing on creating a better 

> future for all of us.

>

> On Oct 3, 2009, at 10:54 AM, Robin Migalla wrote:

>

>> Hi Chuck,

>>

>> I really hear your frustration in this message.  I, too, have suffered

>> terrible despair over the way things have been going.  When I first 

>> woke up

>> to the whole building 7 thing, I spent almost an entire year either in

>> frantic chicken little ravings or despairing episodes of depression that

>> kept me on my couch for weeks.  The same year I awoke, I lost my brother

>> who was my best friend in all the world, and the last of my nuclear 

>> family

>> on this earth.  It was quite a lonely period in my life.  And the 

>> absolute

>> worst part of it was my husband wouldn't even consider looking at the

>> evidence.  Not even in my own home and family, in my closest and most

>> intimate relationship, could I get a listening, compassionate ear for 

>> the

>> distress my awakening caused.

>>

>> I'm glad that stage is behind me now, and funny thing is since I've 

>> come to

>> terms with my husband's inability to even entertain the idea there 

>> was some

>> funny business happening on September 11, 2001, I really am feeling a 

>> lot

>> more hopeful.  I sincerely believe that the end of deception is upon us.

>> Here's a link to an article I found very helpful:

>>

>> http://www.world-of-wisdom.com/blog/belief-systems-and-their-consequence

>> s/24/#more-24

>>

>> I hope the astrology stuff doesn't scare you too much, to consider the

>> points that Adrian is making.

>>

>> I've also been meaning to reply to your post about the alien 

>> discovery in

>> Cerro Azul, Panama.  I participate in several groups who are focused on

>> planetary ascension.  Many of the people in these groups claim to have

>> relationships with extra terrestrials and often share messages they 

>> believe

>> are coming from them.  If you haven't read "From elsewhere : being 

>> E.T. in

>> America" by Scott Mendelker, I encourage you to do so.  Many of the

>> messages of late have been telling us that there are going to be more 

>> and

>> more incidences of these extra terrestrials trying to make contact 

>> with us.

>>

>> It's a shame that the teens became so fearful they felt they had to kill

>> the creature.  Of course isn't that the way of the world these days - 

>> our

>> fear driving our madness?  I'm not surprised, but I am saddened by 

>> it.  The

>> creature doesn't appear to be something capable of overpowering a 

>> group of

>> healthy teenagers.  If their fear hadn't taken over, perhaps they could

>> have subdued rather than killed the creature and we could have learned

>> something.

>>

>> Anyway, the older I get the more I realize truth is a very relative 

>> thing.

>> I do believe, however, there are a few universal truths on which we can

>> rely.  I believe one of them to be that there really is a loving Creator

>> which has our very best interests at heart and in mind, and if we can 

>> calm

>> our fears enough to hear the still small voice we carry within our own

>> being given us by that Creator, we might just get a glimpse of a new and

>> better world and begin to manifest that.

>>

>> I also want to express my gratitude to you for your very well thought 

>> out

>> and thought provoking posts.  It has been through your posts, I have 

>> been

>> able to let go of some of my staunch libertarian views and to see the 

>> value

>> in certain public enterprises.  I'm not yet sure health care ought to be

>> one of them; especially, given that my view of the current corporate

>> controlled system is killing us, but I do think I'm starting to see 

>> there

>> might be a way of doing this.  Did you know that the very first 

>> hospital on

>> our continent was established by Benjamin Franklin as a means of 

>> caring for

>> the homeless sick and mentally ill folks on the streets of 

>> Philadelphia.  I

>> think good ole Ben was onto something, and I think it was by no accident

>> that it was a public enterprise and not a corporate controlled profit

>> center.

>>

>> Thanks for listening,

>> Robin

>> www.healthforlifecoloncare.com

>> www.traditionalnutrition.org

>> www.ppnf.org

>> "Let thy food be thy medicine and thy medicine be thy food."

>>                                     --Hippocrates  (460-377 B.C.)

>>            Just be careful how you define food ;-)

>>

>> "The purpose of medicine is to amuse the patient until nature effects a

>> cure."

>>                                      -- Voltaire (1694-1778)

>>

>> "Doctors pour medicines of which they know little to cure diseases of 

>> which

>>     they no less into humans of which they know nothing."

>>                                      -- Voltaire (1694-1778)

>>

>> -----Original Message-----

>> From:    Chuck Minne [SMTP:mincam2 at yahoo.com]

>> Sent:    Friday, October 02, 2009 17:36

>> To:    September 11 List 2; Connie Smith

>> Subject:    Re: [CitizensTruth] Why be on this list if...

>>

>> Connie, I am on this list because I want to know the truth (or at least

>> what others perceive it to be.) I'm not sure that I ever will. In 

>> fact, I

>> don't think it is entirely possible. I'd be happy if I thought I came

>> reasonably close.

>>

>> Before 911, I actually thought it was possible to be fairly well 

>> informed.

>> However, 911 has made me almost a complete an unbeliever. I feel 

>> confident

>> that schoolbooks of 2020 will be full of lies. So why not the 

>> schoolbooks

>> of 1990? 1890? etc.?

>>

>> I belong to Architects & Engineers for 911 Truth. Their goal is to

>> enlighten Congress. When talking to one of their organizers, I asked, 

>> "What

>> makes you think Congress is on our side?" She had no answer.

>>

>> I have come to the conclusion that people do not want to know the 

>> "truth,"

>> or if they already do, they don't want to admit it. I truly hope I am

>> wrong, and that you can prove me so.

>>

>> It is my guess that we are the work of aliens - but damned if I know or

>> even believe that. And that goes for just about everything.

>>

>> I think our world revolves about greed - but that is just another guess.

>>

>> Tell me I'm wrong about any of this. that's fine with me - maybe I'll 

>> learn

>> something. Which is why I am here.

>>

>>

>>

>> AMY GOODMAN: We're talking to Wendell Potter. For twenty years he was an

>> executive at CIGNA and Humana. Most importantly, in the years at 

>> CIGNA, he

>> was their chief corporate spokesperson, but has left to blow the 

>> whistle on

>> insurance companies.

>>

>> WENDELL POTTER: Well, clearly, this senator [Chuck Grassley] has the

>> insurance industry's best interests at heart, not the American public 

>> and

>> not his constituents.

>>

>> He has said that he didn't think a public plan would be fair, compete

>> fairly with insurance companies who-the private insurance industry. I'd

>> like to ask him what is fair about the way that the insurance industries

>> operate today, the companies that dump sick people when they need 

>> insurance

>> most. What is fair about the way the insurance industry operates, 

>> Senator

>> Grassley?

>>

>> AMY GOODMAN: Forty-five million new customers, that's what the private

>> insurance companies can now look forward to, if a bill like what came 

>> out

>> of the Senate Finance Committee moves forward with the mandate. 

>> Explain how

>> they will make out and how important, how significant, how profitable 

>> this

>> is for the for-profit companies.

>>

>> WENDELL POTTER: Yeah, this is the first time that the insurance industry

>> has really seen great opportunity in healthcare reform, with an 

>> individual

>> mandate, which would require all of us to buy insurance if we are not

>> eligible for a public, government-run program, which, fortunately, many

>> people are. We would have to buy it in the private market from insurance

>> companies, many of whom-many of which are for-profit companies. We would

>> not have the option of buying or getting insurance through a 

>> government-run

>> program like the public option would create.

>>

>> So, not only would our premium dollars go into this-into the private

>> insurance industry, but a lot of tax dollars would. Most people who 

>> don't

>> have insurance can't afford it, and they wouldn't be able to afford it

>> after healthcare reform is passed without the government subsidizing 

>> their

>> premiums. So billions and billions of taxpayers' dollars will flow right

>> into the treasuries of these big for-profit insurance companies. So 

>> we will

>> be essentially paying a tax that will help support these insurance

>> companies. It will be an enormous bailout of the health insurance 

>> industry.

>>

>> --- On Fri, 10/2/09, Connie Smith <dimension04 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>>

>>

>> From: Connie Smith <dimension04 at sbcglobal.net>

>> Subject: [CitizensTruth] Why be on this list if...

>> To: "September 11 List 2" <citizenstruth at six.pairlist.net>

>> Date: Friday, October 2, 2009, 5:05 PM

>>

>> Regarding a few comments that are going around, pertaining to the NY 

>> ballot

>> efforts, Daniel Sunjata, etc:

>>

>> Why on earth would anyone be on a 9/11 Truth list if they doubt the 

>> truth

>> WILL break through?  One comment was an overt demoralization attempt --

>> which is like attempted sabotage.  The other was all about confusion --

>> which at very least, isn't helpful.

>>

>> Of course there's mythology in our history, but the good stories 

>> aren't the

>> problem. America does have a foundation of ideals, and there are healthy

>> kernels of truth and goodness even if some events are exaggerated.

>>

>> The problem comes in with lack of truth about the "bad" stories -- 

>> lack of

>> awareness of how brutal and arrogant many US policies actually have been

>> and continue to be.

>>

>> America:  all good, no bad -- this has been the LIE unconscionably 

>> taught

>> to us, to generations of schoolchildren.  This is what has most 

>> Americans

>> living in the matrix of ignorance -- and why the perpetrators of 9/11 

>> were

>> pretty sure they could get away with it.

>>

>> But I'm convinced the unprecedented level of global awareness and 

>> activism

>> are reaching critical mass -- and ALL the lies -- especially about 

>> history

>> and religion -- are soon going to come rushing out in a tsunami of 

>> truth.

>> Our main task then is to help people adjust -- as we have had to do 

>> -- to

>> the shock.  And then to help build an entirely new and shining future 

>> based

>> on good-hearted realism instead of the evil agendas humanity has long 

>> been

>> suffering.

>>

>> Connie

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