<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><html>On Mar 31, 2008, at 6:56 PM, Chuck Minne wrote:</html><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-text-stroke-width: -1; ">Anyway, IMO debate is not needed, exposure of what has been said is needed.</span></div></blockquote></div><div><br></div><div>I was going to condemn the notion of <i>debate as a means of settling matters of fact</i>. It reminds me of what passes for journalism today in panel shows, where one person tells the truth (perhaps not even that) and the others lie, distort, and obfuscate, and we are told we are getting a balanced picture.</div><div><br></div><div>In this country, people question whether there is scientific consensus on global warming, whether the Lancet studies of Iraqi mortality are credible, whether the earth is billions of years old, etc. Don't get me wrong; one should be ready to let go of any belief in the face of *evidence* to the contrary.</div><div><br></div><div>But then I remembered a famous dialogue about scientific fact.</div><div><br></div><div>from Wikipedia:</div><div><br></div><div><div style="font-size: 13px; ">The <b>Dialogue Concerning the Two Chief World Systems</b> (Dialogo sopra i due massimi sistemi del mondo) was a 1632 book by Galileo, comparing the Copernican system with the traditional Ptolemaic system.</div> <div style="font-size: 13px; "><br></div> <div style="font-size: 13px; ">In the Copernican system the Earth and other planets orbit the Sun, while in the Ptolemaic system everything in the Universe circles around the Earth. The Dialogue was published in Florence under a formal license from the Inquisition. In 1633, Galileo was convicted of "grave suspicion of heresy" based on the book, which was then placed on the Index of Forbidden Books, from which it was not removed until 1835 (after the theories it discussed had been permitted in print in 1822). In an action that was not announced at the time, the publication of anything else he had written or ever might write was also banned.</div></div><div><br></div><div>A dialogue by one author is not the same as a debate between persons. Nevertheless, revolutionary ideas may need rhetoric for their defense, as well as rational argument.</div><div><br></div><div>Hal</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>P.S.: <a href="http://www.chicagopublicradio.org/Program_WV.aspx?episode=20082">Yesterday's Worldview program</a> included discussion of measures taken by WSJ editorial staff and persons in the American Enterprise Institute and Bush CDC to discredit the Lancet studies. </div></body></html>