From andrew at aarmstrong.org Mon Nov 3 16:03:41 2008 From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong) Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2008 21:03:41 +0000 Subject: [game_preservation] [Monthly SIG Roundup] November 2008 Message-ID: <490F672D.3090300@aarmstrong.org> November sees the start of the White Paper effort, GDC being announced and some more news posted. The UK's NVA was also launched with a gusto, but I hope to have a report later this month about that. A bit late this time, I was at GameCity when November started - next month I won't be so tardy :) Preservation SIG Updates We've started the White Paper behind the scenes, although if you want to help write it before our January deadline - or even just to help proofread it when it's complete (where you get a sneak peek at it of course :) ) then give me a shout. I've not uploaded much to the Internet Archive this month because of some events (like GameCity), but I did manage to get up some quick bits - Red Alert Sizzle adverts and more impressively the long The Witcher Making Of movies (over 2 hours of the stuff). November Preservation SIG Work The White Paper has started, but we could use some help on the Memorials section if anyone can lend a hand writing anything more. There have been some backlog and a few we've missed adding recently too which I hope to sort this month. Mailing List Discussions If you've not joined our mailing list , please do so. We've never tried using our forums it seems :) we stick to old-fangled email. We have had discussions on Older Versions of Programs (leading into patches), XBLA delistings and the Games for Arts Sake collection being announced. Finally, some discussion on being a proofreader by spending some small amount of time in January helping us would be great :) Preservation SIG Blog Updates / Links /Have I missed anything this month? Then email it in to preservation_news @ igda.org !/ * Fallout Retrospective * The anatomy of the first video game (Tennis for Two) * The Making of...Deus Ex Machina * Save the Videogame * Fallout 180 * In The Beginning, There Was Populous * MUD Turns 30 * C64 Orchestra * Arcade Machines in the Movies * USB Atari Controller * Sierra Game Servers Closing Down * Q&A: GOG! * Good Old Games beta Impressions * Amnesia, Forgotten and Remembered * Contacting the Preservation SIG Newsdesk * The Sierra Newsletter, Sierra News Magazine & InterAction Magazine Archive * A Comprehensive List Of Documentaries/TV/Shows/Movies About Video Game and Computer History * The Game Master Speaks: Hudson's 'Takahashi-Meijin' Goes Retro * Gaming, as Viewed 20 Years Ago Final Thoughts I'll be sorting my PC so won't be uploading a lot of material to the archive, but while I have a lot of previews/trailers and cutscene files to upload and some remaining interviews, I've uploaded a lot of my useful documentary content. If anyone knows of any source material for interviews, documentaries and "making of's", it'd be great to have them on the archive! Thanks all, Andrew Armstrong IGDA Game Preservation SIG Site/Blog editor -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrew at aarmstrong.org Mon Nov 3 20:06:22 2008 From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong) Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2008 01:06:22 +0000 Subject: [game_preservation] SIG Icon and theme Message-ID: <490FA00E.7090409@aarmstrong.org> Hey all, My last newsletter got me thinking - if we're publicising anything (and the IGDA is being updated eventually, we hope to a better setup) we really need something to easily display who we are. Most of the other SIG's have a good icon, perhaps we need one too. Anyone here have any ideas what it should be? Anyone here able to put a design forward? Here are the other SIG's that I could find, all of them are varied in their design. http://igda.org/education/img/Topc.jpg http://www.igda.org/wiki/images/9/9a/SIG_Logo1_small_text.jpg http://www.igda.org/mobile/images/header.gif http://www.igda.org/qa/images/QASIG.jpg http://www.igda.org/women/images/header_new01.jpg http://gwsig.quantumcontent.com/images/personalheader.jpg If we're going to be boring, doing it as the mobile guys have (some text next to the standard IGDA header) would probably work. I'd be also interested if anyone has any theme ideas for colour schemes or site layouts - I'm beta testing the new IGDA site and will investigate what we can change (and complain a lot if we can't, since I want to make a site at least as good as the QA site! ) If no one comes forwards, I'll put forward my own ideas, although since I'm no graphic artist, it'll be of limited imagination and competence :) Thanks all, Andrew -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From evilcowclone at gmail.com Tue Nov 4 11:09:00 2008 From: evilcowclone at gmail.com (Devin Monnens) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 09:09:00 -0700 Subject: [game_preservation] [Monthly SIG Roundup] November 2008 In-Reply-To: <490F672D.3090300@aarmstrong.org> References: <490F672D.3090300@aarmstrong.org> Message-ID: Just in case we didn't have it already, Chris Crawford has the complete set of The Journal of Computer Game Design in his library: http://www.erasmatazz.com/Library.html This looks like a great resource - we need collections of old magazines and journals, too :) -DM On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 2:03 PM, Andrew Armstrong wrote: > November sees the start of the White Paper effort, GDC being announced > and some more news posted. The UK's NVA was also launched with a gusto, but > I hope to have a report later this month about that. A bit late this time, I > was at GameCity when November started - next month I won't be so tardy :) > Preservation SIG Updates > > We've started the White Paperbehind the scenes, although if you want to help write it before our January > deadline - or even just to help proofread it when it's complete (where you > get a sneak peek at it of course :) ) then give me a shout. > > I've not uploaded much to the Internet Archivethis month because of some events (like GameCity), but I did manage to get > up some quick bits - Red Alert Sizzle advertsand more impressively the long The > Witcher Making Ofmovies (over 2 hours of the stuff). > November Preservation SIG Work > > The White Paperhas started, but we could use some help on the Memorials section if anyone > can lend a hand writing anything more. There have been some backlog and a > few we've missed adding recently too which I hope to sort this month. > Mailing List Discussions > > If you've not joined our mailing list, > please do so. We've never tried using our forums it seems :) we stick to > old-fangled email. We have had discussions on Older Versions of Programs(leading into patches), XBLA > delistingsand the Games > for Arts Sakecollection being announced. Finally, some discussion on being a > proofreaderby spending some small amount of time in January helping us would be > great :) > Preservation SIG Blog Updates / Links > > *Have I missed anything this month? Then email it in to preservation_news > @ igda.org !* > > - Fallout Retrospective > - The anatomy of the first video game (Tennis for Two) > - The Making of?Deus Ex Machina > - Save the Videogame > - Fallout 180 > - In The Beginning, There Was Populous > - MUD Turns 30 > - C64 Orchestra > - Arcade Machines in the Movies > - USB Atari Controller > - Sierra Game Servers Closing Down > - Q&A: GOG! > - Good Old Games beta Impressions > - Amnesia, Forgotten and Remembered > - Contacting the Preservation SIG Newsdesk > - The Sierra Newsletter, Sierra News Magazine & InterAction Magazine > Archive > - A Comprehensive List Of Documentaries/TV/Shows/Movies About Video > Game and Computer History > - The Game Master Speaks: Hudson's 'Takahashi-Meijin' Goes Retro > - Gaming, as Viewed 20 Years Ago > > Final Thoughts > > I'll be sorting my PC so won't be uploading a lot of material to the > archive, but while I have a lot of previews/trailers and cutscene files to > upload and some remaining interviews, I've uploaded a lot of my useful > documentary content. If anyone knows of any source material for interviews, > documentaries and "making of's", it'd be great to have them on the archive! > > Thanks all, > > Andrew Armstrong > > IGDA Game Preservation SIG Site/Blog editor > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > > -- The sleep of Reason produces monsters. "Until next time..." Captain Commando -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrew at aarmstrong.org Tue Nov 4 19:28:54 2008 From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong) Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2008 00:28:54 +0000 Subject: [game_preservation] [Monthly SIG Roundup] November 2008 In-Reply-To: References: <490F672D.3090300@aarmstrong.org> Message-ID: <4910E8C6.4020708@aarmstrong.org> Cool, added into our news . You should have used the /fancy dancy/ new email address though. That email address is again! preservation_news at igda.org ! :) I should also go through our news archive and get all the links to archive stuff out and putting them on our "list's o' stuff". I'm also going to see about getting more Internet Archive collections to archive some of the material that might disappear too, but that'll take more planning :) Andrew Devin Monnens wrote: > Just in case we didn't have it already, Chris Crawford has the > complete set of The Journal of Computer Game Design in his library: > > http://www.erasmatazz.com/Library.html > > This looks like a great resource - we need collections of old > magazines and journals, too :) > > -DM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrew at aarmstrong.org Tue Nov 4 19:38:05 2008 From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong) Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2008 00:38:05 +0000 Subject: [game_preservation] UK National Videogame Archive Visit Message-ID: <4910EAED.8050209@aarmstrong.org> Hey all, I visited Tom Woolley at the start of the National Videogame Archive at the National Media Museum in Bradford, UK today - on behalf of the SIG in fact :) I wrote up a report on my site because I can't upload images on our Preservation blog (I wonder if anyone noticed ;) ) - check out the pictures, I took a picture of most of the stuff, this archive is *very very* new and new to the Museum in most ways. I have also put a link from our blog too . I'll be getting an interview with him at some point to get some better detail and it was a good discussion I had about the state of things currently - should be good! This is a start of the IGDA Game Preservation SIG's elite journalistic hack team! I'm willing to do more reports and interviews if people are interested in reading them (they do take my time up after all) - and I also need, obviously, people to interview or report about, so post if anything comes up. Once the new IGDA site is complete I'll be able to upload images (or I'd better be able to!), and make the site much better, allowing me to /actually do this on the real site/ , yay! :) Andrew -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lowood at stanford.edu Wed Nov 5 13:22:40 2008 From: lowood at stanford.edu (Henry Lowood) Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2008 10:22:40 -0800 Subject: [game_preservation] UK National Videogame Archive Visit In-Reply-To: <4910EAED.8050209@aarmstrong.org> References: <4910EAED.8050209@aarmstrong.org> Message-ID: <4911E470.4060709@stanford.edu> Hey Andrew, watch out with the "elite journalist" tag! We just went through an election in which elitists and journalists were given black eyes, so the combination would be very dangerous. :-) I hope someone from NVA will be at the roundtable next year, though I'm waiting to announce the roundtable to the SIG until final approval for the program. So, I won't put anything about it in this message to the group. ;-0 Henry Andrew Armstrong wrote: > Hey all, > > I visited Tom Woolley at the start of the National Videogame Archive > at the National Media > Museum in Bradford, UK today > - on behalf of the SIG in fact :) > > I wrote up a report on my site > > because I can't upload images > on our > Preservation blog (I wonder if anyone noticed ;) ) - check out the > pictures, I took a picture of most of the stuff, this archive is *very > very* new and new to the Museum in most ways. > > I have also put a link from our blog too > . > I'll be getting an interview with him at some point to get some better > detail and it was a good discussion I had about the state of things > currently - should be good! > > This is a start of the IGDA Game Preservation SIG's elite journalistic > hack team! I'm willing to do more reports and interviews if people are > interested in reading them (they do take my time up after all) - and I > also need, obviously, people to interview or report about, so post if > anything comes up. > > Once the new IGDA site is complete I'll be able to upload images (or > I'd better be able to!), and make the site much better, allowing me to > /actually do this on the real site/ , yay! :) > > Andrew > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >game_preservation mailing list >game_preservation at igda.org >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > > -- Henry Lowood, Ph.D. Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections; Film & Media Collections HRG, Green Library, 557 Escondido Mall Stanford University Libraries Stanford CA 94305-6004 650-723-4602; lowood at stanford.edu; http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood From andrew at aarmstrong.org Wed Nov 5 13:28:13 2008 From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong) Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2008 18:28:13 +0000 Subject: [game_preservation] UK National Videogame Archive Visit In-Reply-To: <4911E470.4060709@stanford.edu> References: <4910EAED.8050209@aarmstrong.org> <4911E470.4060709@stanford.edu> Message-ID: <4911E5BD.8050902@aarmstrong.org> Hahaha, I hope you notice before reading this but you did just promote it to the group ^_^ - well, it's out in the open now. Unconfirmed though! Let's just hope they don't get rid of the only historical thing during the entire GDC week (we should petition for the Digital Game Canon session to be brought back next time too if we get a chance). Andrew Henry Lowood wrote: > Hey Andrew, > > watch out with the "elite journalist" tag! We just went through an > election in which elitists and journalists were given black eyes, so > the combination would be very dangerous. :-) > > I hope someone from NVA will be at the roundtable next year, though > I'm waiting to announce the roundtable to the SIG until final approval > for the program. So, I won't put anything about it in this message to > the group. ;-0 > > Henry > > Andrew Armstrong wrote: > >> Hey all, >> >> I visited Tom Woolley at the start of the National Videogame Archive >> at the National Media >> Museum in Bradford, UK today >> - on behalf of the SIG in fact :) >> >> I wrote up a report on my site >> >> because I can't upload images >> on our >> Preservation blog (I wonder if anyone noticed ;) ) - check out the >> pictures, I took a picture of most of the stuff, this archive is >> *very very* new and new to the Museum in most ways. >> >> I have also put a link from our blog too >> . >> I'll be getting an interview with him at some point to get some >> better detail and it was a good discussion I had about the state of >> things currently - should be good! >> >> This is a start of the IGDA Game Preservation SIG's elite >> journalistic hack team! I'm willing to do more reports and interviews >> if people are interested in reading them (they do take my time up >> after all) - and I also need, obviously, people to interview or >> report about, so post if anything comes up. >> >> Once the new IGDA site is complete I'll be able to upload images (or >> I'd better be able to!), and make the site much better, allowing me >> to /actually do this on the real site/ , yay! :) >> >> Andrew >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> game_preservation mailing list >> game_preservation at igda.org >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation >> >> > From lowood at stanford.edu Wed Nov 5 13:35:20 2008 From: lowood at stanford.edu (Henry Lowood) Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2008 10:35:20 -0800 Subject: [game_preservation] UK National Videogame Archive Visit In-Reply-To: <4911E5BD.8050902@aarmstrong.org> References: <4910EAED.8050209@aarmstrong.org> <4911E470.4060709@stanford.edu> <4911E5BD.8050902@aarmstrong.org> Message-ID: <4911E768.6000102@stanford.edu> Oh no, I posted to the group! ;-) Andrew Armstrong wrote: > Hahaha, I hope you notice before reading this but you did just promote > it to the group ^_^ - well, it's out in the open now. Unconfirmed > though! Let's just hope they don't get rid of the only historical > thing during the entire GDC week (we should petition for the Digital > Game Canon session to be brought back next time too if we get a chance). > > Andrew > > Henry Lowood wrote: > >> Hey Andrew, >> >> watch out with the "elite journalist" tag! We just went through an >> election in which elitists and journalists were given black eyes, so >> the combination would be very dangerous. :-) >> >> I hope someone from NVA will be at the roundtable next year, though >> I'm waiting to announce the roundtable to the SIG until final >> approval for the program. So, I won't put anything about it in this >> message to the group. ;-0 >> >> Henry >> >> Andrew Armstrong wrote: >> >>> Hey all, >>> >>> I visited Tom Woolley at the start of the National Videogame Archive >>> at the National Media >>> Museum in Bradford, UK >>> today - on behalf of the SIG in fact :) >>> >>> I wrote up a report on my site >>> >>> because I can't upload images >>> on our >>> Preservation blog (I wonder if anyone noticed ;) ) - check out the >>> pictures, I took a picture of most of the stuff, this archive is >>> *very very* new and new to the Museum in most ways. >>> >>> I have also put a link from our blog too >>> . >>> I'll be getting an interview with him at some point to get some >>> better detail and it was a good discussion I had about the state of >>> things currently - should be good! >>> >>> This is a start of the IGDA Game Preservation SIG's elite >>> journalistic hack team! I'm willing to do more reports and >>> interviews if people are interested in reading them (they do take my >>> time up after all) - and I also need, obviously, people to interview >>> or report about, so post if anything comes up. >>> >>> Once the new IGDA site is complete I'll be able to upload images (or >>> I'd better be able to!), and make the site much better, allowing me >>> to /actually do this on the real site/ , yay! :) >>> >>> Andrew >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> game_preservation mailing list >>> game_preservation at igda.org >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation >>> >>> >> > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation -- Henry Lowood, Ph.D. Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections; Film & Media Collections HRG, Green Library, 557 Escondido Mall Stanford University Libraries Stanford CA 94305-6004 650-723-4602; lowood at stanford.edu; http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood From evilcowclone at gmail.com Wed Nov 5 18:59:47 2008 From: evilcowclone at gmail.com (Devin Monnens) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 16:59:47 -0700 Subject: [game_preservation] Michael Crichton, dead at 66 Message-ID: Michael Crichton, famous speculative fiction and thriller author, died Nov 4 after a long battle with cancer. He was 66. Though he's best known for his novels and his work challenging scientists, he also wrote the graphical text adventure, *Amazon *(C64, 1984) and directed and designed *Timeline* (Windows, 2000), the game based on his novel. http://www.mobygames.com/game/amazon http://www.mobygames.com/game/timeline www.michaelcrichton.com I was incredibly shocked and saddened to hear this when I got home from work today. Crichton's work with Jurassic Park was what inspired me to become a writer. If I hadn't read his novels, chances are I wouldn't be as good a writer as I am today. I'm sad I never got the chance to meet him, but am grateful for his work. -- The sleep of Reason produces monsters. "Until next time..." Captain Commando -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ommail at cox.net Fri Nov 7 13:13:04 2008 From: ommail at cox.net (ommail at cox.net) Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 13:13:04 -0500 Subject: [game_preservation] SIG Icon and theme In-Reply-To: <490FA00E.7090409@aarmstrong.org> Message-ID: <20081107131304.V4Y03.23653.imail@eastrmwml49> Hi All. I know I'm the new guy, but I just wanted to throw out some ideas...get the creative juices flowing... Andrew is right--text with the IGDA logo is boring. A graphic would be preferrable. I think that having a theme focusing on the words 'game' and 'preservation' should be followed: a space invader inside a bell jar? a 5.25 disk with a cobweb, and a featherduster? An open vault door, with atari joysticks spilling out? Do any of these have any merit? (sorry--just musing...) Joe ---- Andrew Armstrong wrote: > Hey all, > > My last newsletter got me thinking - if we're publicising anything (and > the IGDA is being updated eventually, we hope to a better setup) we > really need something to easily display who we are. Most of the other > SIG's have a good icon, perhaps we need one too. > > Anyone here have any ideas what it should be? Anyone here able to put a > design forward? > > Here are the other SIG's that I could find, all of them are varied in > their design. > > http://igda.org/education/img/Topc.jpg > http://www.igda.org/wiki/images/9/9a/SIG_Logo1_small_text.jpg > http://www.igda.org/mobile/images/header.gif > http://www.igda.org/qa/images/QASIG.jpg > http://www.igda.org/women/images/header_new01.jpg > http://gwsig.quantumcontent.com/images/personalheader.jpg > > If we're going to be boring, doing it as the mobile guys have (some text > next to the standard IGDA header) would probably work. I'd be also > interested if anyone has any theme ideas for colour schemes or site > layouts - I'm beta testing the new IGDA site and will investigate what > we can change (and complain a lot if we can't, since I want to make a > site at least as good as the QA site! ) > > If no one comes forwards, I'll put forward my own ideas, although since > I'm no graphic artist, it'll be of limited imagination and competence :) > > Thanks all, > > Andrew From andrew at aarmstrong.org Fri Nov 7 13:18:48 2008 From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong) Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2008 18:18:48 +0000 Subject: [game_preservation] SIG Icon and theme In-Reply-To: <20081107131304.V4Y03.23653.imail@eastrmwml49> References: <20081107131304.V4Y03.23653.imail@eastrmwml49> Message-ID: <49148688.3060103@aarmstrong.org> I'm not too good on visual ideas or I wouldn't ask, I'd suggest ;) Bell jar, awesome, I remember those, hehe. Atari Joysticks are pretty classic too as an icon, as is a space invader. The featherduster/dust, perhaps not, since I really don't think this is a dusty group of old people doing this ;-) I'll try and think of some ideas. We do kinda need an artist for this, but I can try my leet GIMP skills at editing some photographs or pixel art to try these ideas. Full photographs wouldn't be a great idea I think, if we really want a true icon. Could put the icon on the right of the classic IGDA swirl or have the swirl as the background or incorporated somehow if anyone has any ideas on that angle. Andrew ommail at cox.net wrote: > Hi All. > > I know I'm the new guy, but I just wanted to throw out some ideas...get the creative juices flowing... > > Andrew is right--text with the IGDA logo is boring. A graphic would be preferrable. I think that having a theme focusing on the words 'game' and 'preservation' should be followed: > > a space invader inside a bell jar? > a 5.25 disk with a cobweb, and a featherduster? > An open vault door, with atari joysticks spilling out? > > Do any of these have any merit? > (sorry--just musing...) > > Joe > > ---- Andrew Armstrong wrote: > >> Hey all, >> >> My last newsletter got me thinking - if we're publicising anything (and >> the IGDA is being updated eventually, we hope to a better setup) we >> really need something to easily display who we are. Most of the other >> SIG's have a good icon, perhaps we need one too. >> >> Anyone here have any ideas what it should be? Anyone here able to put a >> design forward? >> >> Here are the other SIG's that I could find, all of them are varied in >> their design. >> >> http://igda.org/education/img/Topc.jpg >> http://www.igda.org/wiki/images/9/9a/SIG_Logo1_small_text.jpg >> http://www.igda.org/mobile/images/header.gif >> http://www.igda.org/qa/images/QASIG.jpg >> http://www.igda.org/women/images/header_new01.jpg >> http://gwsig.quantumcontent.com/images/personalheader.jpg >> >> If we're going to be boring, doing it as the mobile guys have (some text >> next to the standard IGDA header) would probably work. I'd be also >> interested if anyone has any theme ideas for colour schemes or site >> layouts - I'm beta testing the new IGDA site and will investigate what >> we can change (and complain a lot if we can't, since I want to make a >> site at least as good as the QA site! ) >> >> If no one comes forwards, I'll put forward my own ideas, although since >> I'm no graphic artist, it'll be of limited imagination and competence :) >> >> Thanks all, >> >> Andrew >> > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From evilcowclone at gmail.com Fri Nov 7 13:30:36 2008 From: evilcowclone at gmail.com (Devin Monnens) Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 11:30:36 -0700 Subject: [game_preservation] SIG Icon and theme In-Reply-To: <49148688.3060103@aarmstrong.org> References: <20081107131304.V4Y03.23653.imail@eastrmwml49> <49148688.3060103@aarmstrong.org> Message-ID: You know, I photoshopped a bunch of videogame icons in bell jars for business cards a few years back when I did a presentation on game preservation. I can dig some of those up when I get off work. The thing to keep in mind though is that the Space Invader is copyrighted by Taito... So a joystick or even a generic pixel man might be better. I'm thinking though that our icon should be similar to others used by IGDA SIGs. I'll forward this to my brother as well as he's in graphic design; maybe he's got some ideas :) -Devin On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 11:18 AM, Andrew Armstrong wrote: > I'm not too good on visual ideas or I wouldn't ask, I'd suggest ;) > > Bell jar, awesome, I remember those, hehe. Atari Joysticks are pretty > classic too as an icon, as is a space invader. > > The featherduster/dust, perhaps not, since I really don't think this is a > dusty group of old people doing this ;-) > > I'll try and think of some ideas. We do kinda need an artist for this, but > I can try my leet GIMP skills at editing some photographs or pixel art to > try these ideas. Full photographs wouldn't be a great idea I think, if we > really want a true icon. > > Could put the icon on the right of the classic IGDA swirl or have the swirl > as the background or incorporated somehow if anyone has any ideas on that > angle. > > Andrew > > > ommail at cox.net wrote: > > Hi All. > > I know I'm the new guy, but I just wanted to throw out some ideas...get the creative juices flowing... > > Andrew is right--text with the IGDA logo is boring. A graphic would be preferrable. I think that having a theme focusing on the words 'game' and 'preservation' should be followed: > > a space invader inside a bell jar? > a 5.25 disk with a cobweb, and a featherduster? > An open vault door, with atari joysticks spilling out? > > Do any of these have any merit? > (sorry--just musing...) > > Joe > > ---- Andrew Armstrong wrote: > > > Hey all, > > My last newsletter got me thinking - if we're publicising anything (and > the IGDA is being updated eventually, we hope to a better setup) we > really need something to easily display who we are. Most of the other > SIG's have a good icon, perhaps we need one too. > > Anyone here have any ideas what it should be? Anyone here able to put a > design forward? > > Here are the other SIG's that I could find, all of them are varied in > their design. > http://igda.org/education/img/Topc.jpghttp://www.igda.org/wiki/images/9/9a/SIG_Logo1_small_text.jpghttp://www.igda.org/mobile/images/header.gifhttp://www.igda.org/qa/images/QASIG.jpghttp://www.igda.org/women/images/header_new01.jpghttp://gwsig.quantumcontent.com/images/personalheader.jpg > > If we're going to be boring, doing it as the mobile guys have (some text > next to the standard IGDA header) would probably work. I'd be also > interested if anyone has any theme ideas for colour schemes or site > layouts - I'm beta testing the new IGDA site and will investigate what > we can change (and complain a lot if we can't, since I want to make a > site at least as good as the QA site! ) > > If no one comes forwards, I'll put forward my own ideas, although since > I'm no graphic artist, it'll be of limited imagination and competence :) > > Thanks all, > > Andrew > > > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > > -- The sleep of Reason produces monsters. "Until next time..." Captain Commando -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lowood at stanford.edu Fri Nov 7 13:52:18 2008 From: lowood at stanford.edu (Henry Lowood) Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2008 10:52:18 -0800 Subject: [game_preservation] SIG Icon and theme In-Reply-To: References: <20081107131304.V4Y03.23653.imail@eastrmwml49> <49148688.3060103@aarmstrong.org> Message-ID: <49148E62.8050906@stanford.edu> It's possible that some product icons might be available for our use. I'm thinking, for example, of the old Epyx "thinker". Also, I believe that anything connected to Vectrex is in public domain, and there might be some cool images there. But it's probably also true that something generic, not tied to a product or company, would be a better expression of the SIG's goals anyway. Another thought, something that ties the idea of an archive to games, like (copyrights aside), dropping Pac-Man into a storage box -- hmm, that's horrible, but you get what I mean. Like Andrew, don't count on me for graphics ... Henry Devin Monnens wrote: > You know, I photoshopped a bunch of videogame icons in bell jars for > business cards a few years back when I did a presentation on game > preservation. I can dig some of those up when I get off work. The > thing to keep in mind though is that the Space Invader is copyrighted > by Taito... So a joystick or even a generic pixel man might be better. > > I'm thinking though that our icon should be similar to others used by > IGDA SIGs. I'll forward this to my brother as well as he's in graphic > design; maybe he's got some ideas :) > > -Devin > > On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 11:18 AM, Andrew Armstrong > > wrote: > > I'm not too good on visual ideas or I wouldn't ask, I'd suggest ;) > > Bell jar, awesome, I remember those, hehe. Atari Joysticks are > pretty classic too as an icon, as is a space invader. > > The featherduster/dust, perhaps not, since I really don't think > this is a dusty group of old people doing this ;-) > > I'll try and think of some ideas. We do kinda need an artist for > this, but I can try my leet GIMP skills at editing some > photographs or pixel art to try these ideas. Full photographs > wouldn't be a great idea I think, if we really want a true icon. > > Could put the icon on the right of the classic IGDA swirl or have > the swirl as the background or incorporated somehow if anyone has > any ideas on that angle. > > Andrew > > > ommail at cox.net wrote: >> Hi All. >> >> I know I'm the new guy, but I just wanted to throw out some ideas...get the creative juices flowing... >> >> Andrew is right--text with the IGDA logo is boring. A graphic would be preferrable. I think that having a theme focusing on the words 'game' and 'preservation' should be followed: >> >> a space invader inside a bell jar? >> a 5.25 disk with a cobweb, and a featherduster? >> An open vault door, with atari joysticks spilling out? >> >> Do any of these have any merit? >> (sorry--just musing...) >> >> Joe >> >> ---- Andrew Armstrong wrote: >> >>> Hey all, >>> >>> My last newsletter got me thinking - if we're publicising anything (and >>> the IGDA is being updated eventually, we hope to a better setup) we >>> really need something to easily display who we are. Most of the other >>> SIG's have a good icon, perhaps we need one too. >>> >>> Anyone here have any ideas what it should be? Anyone here able to put a >>> design forward? >>> >>> Here are the other SIG's that I could find, all of them are varied in >>> their design. >>> >>> http://igda.org/education/img/Topc.jpg >>> http://www.igda.org/wiki/images/9/9a/SIG_Logo1_small_text.jpg >>> http://www.igda.org/mobile/images/header.gif >>> http://www.igda.org/qa/images/QASIG.jpg >>> http://www.igda.org/women/images/header_new01.jpg >>> http://gwsig.quantumcontent.com/images/personalheader.jpg >>> >>> If we're going to be boring, doing it as the mobile guys have (some text >>> next to the standard IGDA header) would probably work. I'd be also >>> interested if anyone has any theme ideas for colour schemes or site >>> layouts - I'm beta testing the new IGDA site and will investigate what >>> we can change (and complain a lot if we can't, since I want to make a >>> site at least as good as the QA site! ) >>> >>> If no one comes forwards, I'll put forward my own ideas, although since >>> I'm no graphic artist, it'll be of limited imagination and competence :) >>> >>> Thanks all, >>> >>> Andrew >>> >> > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > > > > > -- > The sleep of Reason produces monsters. > > "Until next time..." > Captain Commando > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > -- Henry Lowood, Ph.D. Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections; Film & Media Collections HRG, Green Library, 557 Escondido Mall Stanford University Libraries Stanford CA 94305-6004 650-723-4602; lowood at stanford.edu; http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood From andrew at aarmstrong.org Fri Nov 7 14:48:43 2008 From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong) Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2008 19:48:43 +0000 Subject: [game_preservation] Let's Play collection at the Internet Archive Message-ID: <49149B9B.4050806@aarmstrong.org> We now have a Let's Play collection at the Internet Archive, for all those videos that are getting popular where someone plays through a game with commentary. I contacted the Let's Play Archive , who's admin was willing to upload at least the videos he was able to get from the Let's Play things available from his site (which he runs for the SomethingAwful group). Should be good to have these available to download and in a permanent location. Hopefully there'll be a few around soon and I'll put the news up on the blog then. For anyone who doesn't know what these videos are, from my (okay) description: Let's Play videos show the videogame being played while the player speaks about what he is doing in real time commentary. Generally the playthroughs are spread over several segments of play (varying in time). Rarely some action is done "off screen" or speeded up to not get too repetitive, but in most cases the playthrough is a complete run of the game including all "Game Overs" and deaths. The videos are a usually humorous way to learn about a videogame without having to play it. Let's Play Trespasser was the test case (and might still be finalising in the IA's system, but can be watched now). I'll also try and source some additional videos, and if anyone has any sources for these (or does them themselves) contacting me or the Let's Play Archive can get them up there. Finally, thanks to Simon for helping get this up and for saying to research it :-) If I find any other major videogame video communities I'll be sure to try for collections or uploads for them too. Andrew -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stuart.feldhamer at gmail.com Tue Nov 11 00:08:47 2008 From: stuart.feldhamer at gmail.com (Stuart Feldhamer) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 00:08:47 -0500 Subject: [game_preservation] Preservation Whitepaper Brainstorm Progress In-Reply-To: <48EA986D.2090600@aarmstrong.org> References: <48EA986D.2090600@aarmstrong.org> Message-ID: <49191366.2536640a.20d1.ffffe3ce@mx.google.com> Andrew, I read this stuff a long time ago and at the time, I had some insightful comments. Unfortunately, I've since forgotten most of them. : ) However, one point I wanted to make that I didn't see expressed on the wiki as well as I would have liked is that game preservation needs to be about more than preserving the bits. You do mention preserving ancillary documentation such as design journals and the like, but what isn't there is the fact that most of the older games were packaged not only with manuals (which themselves are exceedingly rare nowadays), but also with "feelies" (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feelies). Feelies provided another level of immersion into the game world that complemented actually booting up the disk and playing the game. When preserving games, all the supporting materials need to be preserved as well. They are critical for enjoying and appreciating the older games as they were intended to be experienced by their creators. Stuart > -----Original Message----- > From: game_preservation-bounces at igda.org [mailto:game_preservation- > bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Armstrong > Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 7:00 PM > To: IGDA Game Preservation SIG > Subject: [game_preservation] Preservation Whitepaper Brainstorm > Progress > > Hey All, > > Comments are still needed, nay, required for the Whitepaper. I'm > forming > some of my own opinions, but Devin has provided a wide range of > examples > (see here: > http://www.igda.org/wiki/Game_Preservation_SIG/White_paper_brainstorm/C > ompelling_Examples > ) which I finally got online (sorry for the delay!) and might even be > updated when Devin finishes some other bits. > > There is a need for more examples, more points to be raised in the > paper > ( > http://www.igda.org/wiki/Game_Preservation_SIG/White_paper_brainstorm/C > ore_Concepts > ), and even name suggestions - scoffing that the examples ( > http://www.igda.org/wiki/Game_Preservation_SIG/White_paper_brainstorm/T > itle_Suggestions > ) are not well thought out privately doesn't help, post here if they > are > rubbish! Post if they are great too! > > There is a grand total of 4 people interested in this. I'm not exactly > an archivist and even I've put myself down to at least help. There are > soem seriously talented and professional people who love videogames > here, surely you all have some opinion to add in? > > Post on the mailing list and I can add your comments to the wiki more > permanently. I'm getting other bits of the SIG work done, so this is > more a priority for me. I'm happy to edit up anything within a day of > posting, and will be pestering everyone to help. There might not even > be > a dozen people on this list (I don't really know, nor care :) ), but I > know there is more then Me, Henry, Zach and Devin who have posted in > the > past ;) > > Come on anyone! (everyone!) I'm waiting to be inspired to put my own > thoughts down, I'll do so if anyone else is willing to ;) > > Also; tell anyone else who might be interested. People who run game > websites. Videogame developers. Videogame players. Whoever you think > might have something good too add is obviously welcome since we don't > have a hugely active group here ourselves. > > Thanks all! > > Andrew > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation From evilcowclone at gmail.com Tue Nov 11 09:20:17 2008 From: evilcowclone at gmail.com (Devin Monnens) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 07:20:17 -0700 Subject: [game_preservation] Preservation Whitepaper Brainstorm Progress In-Reply-To: <49191366.2536640a.20d1.ffffe3ce@mx.google.com> References: <48EA986D.2090600@aarmstrong.org> <49191366.2536640a.20d1.ffffe3ce@mx.google.com> Message-ID: How relevant are, say, cloth maps from Ultima? Originally, I think this sort of thing was used to 'enhance the experience,' but I haven't read anything regarding how much that really DOES affect player experience. Nowadays, I just consider most of that stuff to be schwag. But yeah, the key fact that we are preserving more than just bits is important. Manuals and packaging are in themselves important as it helps put the game into context (and as you noted, some are unplayable without them - just try beating Metal Gear Solid without the game case OR consulting a guide if you haven't beaten it already). More importantly, we know that some games contained information that could not be - or simply was not - communicated through gameplay, which is essential to chronicling the development of the medium. -Devin On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 10:08 PM, Stuart Feldhamer < stuart.feldhamer at gmail.com> wrote: > Andrew, > > I read this stuff a long time ago and at the time, I had some insightful > comments. Unfortunately, I've since forgotten most of them. : ) > > However, one point I wanted to make that I didn't see expressed on the wiki > as well as I would have liked is that game preservation needs to be about > more than preserving the bits. You do mention preserving ancillary > documentation such as design journals and the like, but what isn't there is > the fact that most of the older games were packaged not only with manuals > (which themselves are exceedingly rare nowadays), but also with "feelies" > (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feelies). Feelies provided another level > of immersion into the game world that complemented actually booting up the > disk and playing the game. When preserving games, all the supporting > materials need to be preserved as well. They are critical for enjoying and > appreciating the older games as they were intended to be experienced by > their creators. > > Stuart > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: game_preservation-bounces at igda.org [mailto:game_preservation- > > bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Armstrong > > Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 7:00 PM > > To: IGDA Game Preservation SIG > > Subject: [game_preservation] Preservation Whitepaper Brainstorm > > Progress > > > > Hey All, > > > > Comments are still needed, nay, required for the Whitepaper. I'm > > forming > > some of my own opinions, but Devin has provided a wide range of > > examples > > (see here: > > http://www.igda.org/wiki/Game_Preservation_SIG/White_paper_brainstorm/C > > ompelling_Examples > > ) which I finally got online (sorry for the delay!) and might even be > > updated when Devin finishes some other bits. > > > > There is a need for more examples, more points to be raised in the > > paper > > ( > > http://www.igda.org/wiki/Game_Preservation_SIG/White_paper_brainstorm/C > > ore_Concepts > > ), and even name suggestions - scoffing that the examples ( > > http://www.igda.org/wiki/Game_Preservation_SIG/White_paper_brainstorm/T > > itle_Suggestions > > ) are not well thought out privately doesn't help, post here if they > > are > > rubbish! Post if they are great too! > > > > There is a grand total of 4 people interested in this. I'm not exactly > > an archivist and even I've put myself down to at least help. There are > > soem seriously talented and professional people who love videogames > > here, surely you all have some opinion to add in? > > > > Post on the mailing list and I can add your comments to the wiki more > > permanently. I'm getting other bits of the SIG work done, so this is > > more a priority for me. I'm happy to edit up anything within a day of > > posting, and will be pestering everyone to help. There might not even > > be > > a dozen people on this list (I don't really know, nor care :) ), but I > > know there is more then Me, Henry, Zach and Devin who have posted in > > the > > past ;) > > > > Come on anyone! (everyone!) I'm waiting to be inspired to put my own > > thoughts down, I'll do so if anyone else is willing to ;) > > > > Also; tell anyone else who might be interested. People who run game > > websites. Videogame developers. Videogame players. Whoever you think > > might have something good too add is obviously welcome since we don't > > have a hugely active group here ourselves. > > > > Thanks all! > > > > Andrew > > _______________________________________________ > > game_preservation mailing list > > game_preservation at igda.org > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > -- The sleep of Reason produces monsters. "Until next time..." Captain Commando -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrew at aarmstrong.org Tue Nov 11 09:28:27 2008 From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 14:28:27 +0000 Subject: [game_preservation] Preservation Whitepaper Brainstorm Progress In-Reply-To: References: <48EA986D.2090600@aarmstrong.org> <49191366.2536640a.20d1.ffffe3ce@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4919968B.8090307@aarmstrong.org> Oh, I agree that feelies for some games are very important to preserve - several older games which started it actually had important in-game information (and puzzles) on them, which must have sucked if you only got the game second hand without them, making the game unwinnable! And who can forget "Turn to page 55 and input this line" or "Answer this obscure question when the answer is in the manual" - there was a period of this (the original Civilization had it). There were code wheels (I remember Premier Manager 3 had "Match the kit top and bottom", haha) and so on. Unique "Anti-piracy" measures - which the feelies I described as breaking the game if missing also were. These are part of the game - preserving the videogame usually implies preserving these too, although the unnecessary and easily damaged items might be really hard to get. Maps, manuals are important at least from certain capacities (and of varying importance - the Baldur's Gate maps were not necessary for completing the games since they had much better in-game maps rather then vague overworld maps :) ). I also remember the original GTA (and GTA2) needed a map in almost all senses of the word since it included no in-game one. Once GTA3 added a map (which was improved dramatically in usability in later editions) the phyiscal map you got with the game was less important - budget releases no longer include it (and don't for GTA1 and 2, making those games quite difficult at times!). We'll make a note to try and get it added to the paper in some capacity. In some respects, the quite a few of the actual videogames with these were actually of poorer quality then the actual feelies and manuals they came with (some coming with entire books, or whatever). Andrew Devin Monnens wrote: > How relevant are, say, cloth maps from Ultima? Originally, I think > this sort of thing was used to 'enhance the experience,' but I haven't > read anything regarding how much that really DOES affect player > experience. Nowadays, I just consider most of that stuff to be schwag. > > But yeah, the key fact that we are preserving more than just bits is > important. Manuals and packaging are in themselves important as it > helps put the game into context (and as you noted, some are unplayable > without them - just try beating Metal Gear Solid without the game case > OR consulting a guide if you haven't beaten it already). More > importantly, we know that some games contained information that could > not be - or simply was not - communicated through gameplay, which is > essential to chronicling the development of the medium. > > -Devin > > On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 10:08 PM, Stuart Feldhamer > > wrote: > > Andrew, > > I read this stuff a long time ago and at the time, I had some > insightful > comments. Unfortunately, I've since forgotten most of them. : ) > > However, one point I wanted to make that I didn't see expressed on > the wiki > as well as I would have liked is that game preservation needs to > be about > more than preserving the bits. You do mention preserving ancillary > documentation such as design journals and the like, but what isn't > there is > the fact that most of the older games were packaged not only with > manuals > (which themselves are exceedingly rare nowadays), but also with > "feelies" > (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feelies). Feelies provided > another level > of immersion into the game world that complemented actually > booting up the > disk and playing the game. When preserving games, all the supporting > materials need to be preserved as well. They are critical for > enjoying and > appreciating the older games as they were intended to be > experienced by > their creators. > > Stuart > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: game_preservation-bounces at igda.org > > [mailto:game_preservation- > > bounces at igda.org ] On Behalf Of Andrew > Armstrong > > Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 7:00 PM > > To: IGDA Game Preservation SIG > > Subject: [game_preservation] Preservation Whitepaper Brainstorm > > Progress > > > > Hey All, > > > > Comments are still needed, nay, required for the Whitepaper. I'm > > forming > > some of my own opinions, but Devin has provided a wide range of > > examples > > (see here: > > > http://www.igda.org/wiki/Game_Preservation_SIG/White_paper_brainstorm/C > > ompelling_Examples > > ) which I finally got online (sorry for the delay!) and might > even be > > updated when Devin finishes some other bits. > > > > There is a need for more examples, more points to be raised in the > > paper > > ( > > > http://www.igda.org/wiki/Game_Preservation_SIG/White_paper_brainstorm/C > > ore_Concepts > > ), and even name suggestions - scoffing that the examples ( > > > http://www.igda.org/wiki/Game_Preservation_SIG/White_paper_brainstorm/T > > itle_Suggestions > > ) are not well thought out privately doesn't help, post here if they > > are > > rubbish! Post if they are great too! > > > > There is a grand total of 4 people interested in this. I'm not > exactly > > an archivist and even I've put myself down to at least help. > There are > > soem seriously talented and professional people who love videogames > > here, surely you all have some opinion to add in? > > > > Post on the mailing list and I can add your comments to the wiki > more > > permanently. I'm getting other bits of the SIG work done, so this is > > more a priority for me. I'm happy to edit up anything within a > day of > > posting, and will be pestering everyone to help. There might not > even > > be > > a dozen people on this list (I don't really know, nor care :) ), > but I > > know there is more then Me, Henry, Zach and Devin who have posted in > > the > > past ;) > > > > Come on anyone! (everyone!) I'm waiting to be inspired to put my own > > thoughts down, I'll do so if anyone else is willing to ;) > > > > Also; tell anyone else who might be interested. People who run game > > websites. Videogame developers. Videogame players. Whoever you think > > might have something good too add is obviously welcome since we > don't > > have a hugely active group here ourselves. > > > > Thanks all! > > > > Andrew > > _______________________________________________ > > game_preservation mailing list > > game_preservation at igda.org > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > > > > > -- > The sleep of Reason produces monsters. > > "Until next time..." > Captain Commando > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From evilcowclone at gmail.com Tue Nov 11 09:49:05 2008 From: evilcowclone at gmail.com (Devin Monnens) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 07:49:05 -0700 Subject: [game_preservation] Preservation Whitepaper Brainstorm Progress In-Reply-To: <4919968B.8090307@aarmstrong.org> References: <48EA986D.2090600@aarmstrong.org> <49191366.2536640a.20d1.ffffe3ce@mx.google.com> <4919968B.8090307@aarmstrong.org> Message-ID: > > preserving the videogame usually implies preserving these too, although the > unnecessary and easily damaged items might be really hard to get > I've been wondering just how easy it would be to reproduce copies of these things if they are missing. The same thing is true for disks actually. It should be possible to manufacture new floppy disks (3.5, 5.25, 8) for restoration purposes. If the original hardware is considered essential to playback, then the only thing not working is the medium. Original hardware can be repaired through restoration (but will always become harder and harder to get), but the media itself should be easily replicable if the original is properly archived. -DM -- The sleep of Reason produces monsters. "Until next time..." Captain Commando -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrew at aarmstrong.org Tue Nov 11 09:52:58 2008 From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 14:52:58 +0000 Subject: [game_preservation] Preservation Whitepaper Brainstorm Progress In-Reply-To: References: <48EA986D.2090600@aarmstrong.org> <49191366.2536640a.20d1.ffffe3ce@mx.google.com> <4919968B.8090307@aarmstrong.org> Message-ID: <49199C4A.8050905@aarmstrong.org> There is the website http://www.feelies.org/ which makes new ones for old games (and new games) which might be worth looking at if you did want them. Media - the actual videogames bits - should be the easiest to backup (the actual format, ie; some hacked NES cart or some floppy disk system, is harder but still obtainable as the hardware side is). Generally feelies (and manuals) are the hardest, since they are damaged so easily through use. Boxes are less difficult to obtain since they're usually stored away. Andrew Devin Monnens wrote: > > preserving the videogame usually implies preserving these too, > although the unnecessary and easily damaged items might be really > hard to get > > > I've been wondering just how easy it would be to reproduce copies of > these things if they are missing. The same thing is true for disks > actually. It should be possible to manufacture new floppy disks (3.5, > 5.25, 8) for restoration purposes. If the original hardware is > considered essential to playback, then the only thing not working is > the medium. Original hardware can be repaired through restoration (but > will always become harder and harder to get), but the media itself > should be easily replicable if the original is properly archived. > > -DM > > > -- > The sleep of Reason produces monsters. > > "Until next time..." > Captain Commando > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at artfulgamer.com Tue Nov 11 12:13:44 2008 From: chris at artfulgamer.com (Chris Lepine) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 10:13:44 -0700 Subject: [game_preservation] Preservation Whitepaper Brainstorm Progress In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0CE4274C-8CEE-41C7-8738-9D63EA208DFA@artfulgamer.com> Devin, I tried to poke at that very question in an article I wrote a few months ago: http://www.artfulgamer.com/2008/09/02/the-lost-art-of-game-packaging- and-the-digital-only-turning-point/ To save you a few minutes - I basically argue that 'feelies' are the way-station between the player's reality and the game world... they're a physical instantiation of the game's world that gives the player a focus for their imagination. Without the feelies, it's a completely different kind of game. I use Ultima IV as an example - if you don't read the manual and use the feelies, you won't get a real "role-playing" experience from the game. At least, that's my take on it. Wasteland famously uses the "paragraphs" system ... it was a way of overcoming a storage problem according to most sources. Still, it lends an awfully unique experience to playing the game - "You encounter Harry the Bunny Master. Read paragraph 85". Although a lot of people found WL's paragraph system clunky, I thought it gave the game some psychological realism otherwise not possible. Just my $0.02 CDN, $0.01 USD. - Chris http://www.artfulgamer.com 'in search of the poetic and lyrical in video games...' > Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 07:20:17 -0700 > From: "Devin Monnens" > Subject: Re: [game_preservation] Preservation Whitepaper Brainstorm > Progress > To: stuart at feldhamer.com, "IGDA Game Preservation SIG" > > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > How relevant are, say, cloth maps from Ultima? Originally, I think > this sort > of thing was used to 'enhance the experience,' but I haven't read > anything > regarding how much that really DOES affect player experience. > Nowadays, I > just consider most of that stuff to be schwag. > > But yeah, the key fact that we are preserving more than just bits is > important. Manuals and packaging are in themselves important as it > helps put > the game into context (and as you noted, some are unplayable > without them - > just try beating Metal Gear Solid without the game case OR > consulting a > guide if you haven't beaten it already). More importantly, we know > that some > games contained information that could not be - or simply was not - > communicated through gameplay, which is essential to chronicling the > development of the medium. > > -Devin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lowood at stanford.edu Tue Nov 11 13:46:22 2008 From: lowood at stanford.edu (Henry Lowood) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 10:46:22 -0800 Subject: [game_preservation] Preservation Whitepaper Brainstorm Progress In-Reply-To: References: <48EA986D.2090600@aarmstrong.org> <49191366.2536640a.20d1.ffffe3ce@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4919D2FE.5000302@stanford.edu> All, this has actually been one of the main justifications for keeping the Cabrinety Collection in Special Collections (our rare books and manuscripts department). My feeling is even in those cases when the bits on our particular floppies or carts are already history, as the media are unreadable, there is still much information in paper form (boxes, manuals), as well as added items. And those are the things Special Collections knows how to preserve forever. Devin Monnens wrote: > How relevant are, say, cloth maps from Ultima? Originally, I think > this sort of thing was used to 'enhance the experience,' but I haven't > read anything regarding how much that really DOES affect player > experience. Nowadays, I just consider most of that stuff to be schwag. > > But yeah, the key fact that we are preserving more than just bits is > important. Manuals and packaging are in themselves important as it > helps put the game into context (and as you noted, some are unplayable > without them - just try beating Metal Gear Solid without the game case > OR consulting a guide if you haven't beaten it already). More > importantly, we know that some games contained information that could > not be - or simply was not - communicated through gameplay, which is > essential to chronicling the development of the medium. > > -Devin > > On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 10:08 PM, Stuart Feldhamer > > wrote: > > Andrew, > > I read this stuff a long time ago and at the time, I had some > insightful > comments. Unfortunately, I've since forgotten most of them. : ) > > However, one point I wanted to make that I didn't see expressed on > the wiki > as well as I would have liked is that game preservation needs to > be about > more than preserving the bits. You do mention preserving ancillary > documentation such as design journals and the like, but what isn't > there is > the fact that most of the older games were packaged not only with > manuals > (which themselves are exceedingly rare nowadays), but also with > "feelies" > (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feelies). Feelies provided > another level > of immersion into the game world that complemented actually > booting up the > disk and playing the game. When preserving games, all the supporting > materials need to be preserved as well. They are critical for > enjoying and > appreciating the older games as they were intended to be > experienced by > their creators. > > Stuart > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: game_preservation-bounces at igda.org > > [mailto:game_preservation- > > bounces at igda.org ] On Behalf Of Andrew > Armstrong > > Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 7:00 PM > > To: IGDA Game Preservation SIG > > Subject: [game_preservation] Preservation Whitepaper Brainstorm > > Progress > > > > Hey All, > > > > Comments are still needed, nay, required for the Whitepaper. I'm > > forming > > some of my own opinions, but Devin has provided a wide range of > > examples > > (see here: > > > http://www.igda.org/wiki/Game_Preservation_SIG/White_paper_brainstorm/C > > ompelling_Examples > > ) which I finally got online (sorry for the delay!) and might > even be > > updated when Devin finishes some other bits. > > > > There is a need for more examples, more points to be raised in the > > paper > > ( > > > http://www.igda.org/wiki/Game_Preservation_SIG/White_paper_brainstorm/C > > ore_Concepts > > ), and even name suggestions - scoffing that the examples ( > > > http://www.igda.org/wiki/Game_Preservation_SIG/White_paper_brainstorm/T > > itle_Suggestions > > ) are not well thought out privately doesn't help, post here if they > > are > > rubbish! Post if they are great too! > > > > There is a grand total of 4 people interested in this. I'm not > exactly > > an archivist and even I've put myself down to at least help. > There are > > soem seriously talented and professional people who love videogames > > here, surely you all have some opinion to add in? > > > > Post on the mailing list and I can add your comments to the wiki > more > > permanently. I'm getting other bits of the SIG work done, so this is > > more a priority for me. I'm happy to edit up anything within a > day of > > posting, and will be pestering everyone to help. There might not > even > > be > > a dozen people on this list (I don't really know, nor care :) ), > but I > > know there is more then Me, Henry, Zach and Devin who have posted in > > the > > past ;) > > > > Come on anyone! (everyone!) I'm waiting to be inspired to put my own > > thoughts down, I'll do so if anyone else is willing to ;) > > > > Also; tell anyone else who might be interested. People who run game > > websites. Videogame developers. Videogame players. Whoever you think > > might have something good too add is obviously welcome since we > don't > > have a hugely active group here ourselves. > > > > Thanks all! > > > > Andrew > > _______________________________________________ > > game_preservation mailing list > > game_preservation at igda.org > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > > > > > -- > The sleep of Reason produces monsters. > > "Until next time..." > Captain Commando > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > -- Henry Lowood, Ph.D. Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections; Film & Media Collections HRG, Green Library, 557 Escondido Mall Stanford University Libraries Stanford CA 94305-6004 650-723-4602; lowood at stanford.edu; http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood From trixter at oldskool.org Tue Nov 11 17:49:16 2008 From: trixter at oldskool.org (Jim Leonard) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 16:49:16 -0600 Subject: [game_preservation] Preservation Whitepaper Brainstorm Progress In-Reply-To: References: <48EA986D.2090600@aarmstrong.org> <49191366.2536640a.20d1.ffffe3ce@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <491A0BEC.7020703@oldskool.org> Devin Monnens wrote: > How relevant are, say, cloth maps from Ultima? Originally, I think this > sort of thing was used to 'enhance the experience,' but I haven't read > anything regarding how much that really DOES affect player experience. > Nowadays, I just consider most of that stuff to be schwag. Some included materials were absolutely necessary to get anywhere in the game (newspaper in Tass Times in Tonetown, business card in Transylvania, etc.). They contained information not in the game code. -- Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/ Help our electronic games project: http://www.mobygames.com/ Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/ A child borne of the home computer wars: http://trixter.wordpress.com/ From trixter at oldskool.org Tue Nov 11 17:51:05 2008 From: trixter at oldskool.org (Jim Leonard) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 16:51:05 -0600 Subject: [game_preservation] Preservation Whitepaper Brainstorm Progress In-Reply-To: References: <48EA986D.2090600@aarmstrong.org> <49191366.2536640a.20d1.ffffe3ce@mx.google.com> <4919968B.8090307@aarmstrong.org> Message-ID: <491A0C59.8050002@oldskool.org> Devin Monnens wrote: > It should be possible to manufacture new floppy disks (3.5, > 5.25, 8) for restoration purposes. There is already a company that does well selling floppy disks, Athana. Prices and media quality are reasonable. -- Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/ Help our electronic games project: http://www.mobygames.com/ Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/ A child borne of the home computer wars: http://trixter.wordpress.com/ From lowood at stanford.edu Tue Nov 11 17:51:52 2008 From: lowood at stanford.edu (Henry Lowood) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 14:51:52 -0800 Subject: [game_preservation] Preservation Whitepaper Brainstorm Progress In-Reply-To: <491A0BEC.7020703@oldskool.org> References: <48EA986D.2090600@aarmstrong.org> <49191366.2536640a.20d1.ffffe3ce@mx.google.com> <491A0BEC.7020703@oldskool.org> Message-ID: <491A0C88.6010706@stanford.edu> One other point on this: Frequently, esp. with Infocom but also with other companies, codes for starting the game (i.e., verifying that you were playing from a purchased copy) were available only through manuals or even special code-rings and such. Maybe somebody said this already. Henry Jim Leonard wrote: > Devin Monnens wrote: >> How relevant are, say, cloth maps from Ultima? Originally, I think >> this sort of thing was used to 'enhance the experience,' but I >> haven't read anything regarding how much that really DOES affect >> player experience. Nowadays, I just consider most of that stuff to be >> schwag. > > Some included materials were absolutely necessary to get anywhere in > the game (newspaper in Tass Times in Tonetown, business card in > Transylvania, etc.). They contained information not in the game code. -- Henry Lowood, Ph.D. Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections; Film & Media Collections HRG, Green Library, 557 Escondido Mall Stanford University Libraries Stanford CA 94305-6004 650-723-4602; lowood at stanford.edu; http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood From stuart.feldhamer at gmail.com Tue Nov 11 20:52:55 2008 From: stuart.feldhamer at gmail.com (Stuart Feldhamer) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 20:52:55 -0500 Subject: [game_preservation] Michael Crichton, dead at 66 References: Message-ID: <491a36f7.161e640a.5a9c.2f51@mx.google.com> This post was rejected due to the attachment making it too big. So here it is again with the attachment uploaded to file sharing site drop.io (free plug): http://drop.io/preserve/asset/trilliumgames Stuart From: Stuart Feldhamer [mailto:stuart.feldhamer at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 9:54 PM To: 'IGDA Game Preservation SIG' Subject: RE: [game_preservation] Michael Crichton, dead at 66 Sad news indeed. FYI, Amazon was also available for other platforms, including Apple and IBM PC. In the spirit of preservation, I've attached an article I scanned from an old magazine. Stuart From: game_preservation-bounces at igda.org [mailto:game_preservation-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Devin Monnens Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 7:00 PM To: IGDA Game Preservation SIG Subject: [game_preservation] Michael Crichton, dead at 66 Michael Crichton, famous speculative fiction and thriller author, died Nov 4 after a long battle with cancer. He was 66. Though he's best known for his novels and his work challenging scientists, he also wrote the graphical text adventure, Amazon (C64, 1984) and directed and designed Timeline (Windows, 2000), the game based on his novel. http://www.mobygames.com/game/amazon http://www.mobygames.com/game/timeline www.michaelcrichton.com I was incredibly shocked and saddened to hear this when I got home from work today. Crichton's work with Jurassic Park was what inspired me to become a writer. If I hadn't read his novels, chances are I wouldn't be as good a writer as I am today. I'm sad I never got the chance to meet him, but am grateful for his work. -- The sleep of Reason produces monsters. "Until next time..." Captain Commando -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stuart.feldhamer at gmail.com Tue Nov 11 22:07:27 2008 From: stuart.feldhamer at gmail.com (Stuart Feldhamer) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 22:07:27 -0500 Subject: [game_preservation] Preservation Whitepaper Brainstorm Progress In-Reply-To: <0CE4274C-8CEE-41C7-8738-9D63EA208DFA@artfulgamer.com> References: <0CE4274C-8CEE-41C7-8738-9D63EA208DFA@artfulgamer.com> Message-ID: <491a4865.0610c00a.6c30.ffffad3f@mx.google.com> Chris, Great article. I don't like the "paragraphs system" too much - Pool of Radiance is another game that used it that comes to mind. Your Ultima 4 example is great though - the items that come with the game literally become part of the game. Another example is the Infocom game Wishbringer, where you find the "magic stone of dreams". When you try to examine it, you are informed by the game that "this is the Wishbringer stone found inside your game package" or something of that nature. Stuart From: game_preservation-bounces at igda.org [mailto:game_preservation-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Chris Lepine Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 12:14 PM To: game_preservation at igda.org Subject: Re: [game_preservation] Preservation Whitepaper Brainstorm Progress Devin, I tried to poke at that very question in an article I wrote a few months ago: http://www.artfulgamer.com/2008/09/02/the-lost-art-of-game-packaging-and-the -digital-only-turning-point/ To save you a few minutes - I basically argue that 'feelies' are the way-station between the player's reality and the game world... they're a physical instantiation of the game's world that gives the player a focus for their imagination. Without the feelies, it's a completely different kind of game. I use Ultima IV as an example - if you don't read the manual and use the feelies, you won't get a real "role-playing" experience from the game. At least, that's my take on it. Wasteland famously uses the "paragraphs" system ... it was a way of overcoming a storage problem according to most sources. Still, it lends an awfully unique experience to playing the game - "You encounter Harry the Bunny Master. Read paragraph 85". Although a lot of people found WL's paragraph system clunky, I thought it gave the game some psychological realism otherwise not possible. Just my $0.02 CDN, $0.01 USD. - Chris http://www.artfulgamer.com 'in search of the poetic and lyrical in video games...' Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 07:20:17 -0700 From: "Devin Monnens" Subject: Re: [game_preservation] Preservation Whitepaper Brainstorm Progress To: stuart at feldhamer.com, "IGDA Game Preservation SIG" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" How relevant are, say, cloth maps from Ultima? Originally, I think this sort of thing was used to 'enhance the experience,' but I haven't read anything regarding how much that really DOES affect player experience. Nowadays, I just consider most of that stuff to be schwag. But yeah, the key fact that we are preserving more than just bits is important. Manuals and packaging are in themselves important as it helps put the game into context (and as you noted, some are unplayable without them - just try beating Metal Gear Solid without the game case OR consulting a guide if you haven't beaten it already). More importantly, we know that some games contained information that could not be - or simply was not - communicated through gameplay, which is essential to chronicling the development of the medium. -Devin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From evilcowclone at gmail.com Tue Nov 11 22:11:22 2008 From: evilcowclone at gmail.com (Devin Monnens) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 20:11:22 -0700 Subject: [game_preservation] Michael Crichton, dead at 66 In-Reply-To: <491a36f7.161e640a.5a9c.2f51@mx.google.com> References: <491a36f7.161e640a.5a9c.2f51@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Thanks for the link, Stuart! I'm going to have to play Amazon eventually. I also want to grab all his books he wrote under his aliases - many of them are VERY rare and I wish they'd have reprinted them (they CAN'T be worse than Prey...). Wanted to do a paper on his early writing for a pop culture conference... On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 6:52 PM, Stuart Feldhamer < stuart.feldhamer at gmail.com> wrote: > This post was rejected due to the attachment making it too big. So here > it is again with the attachment uploaded to file sharing site drop.io(free plug): > > > > http://drop.io/preserve/asset/trilliumgames > > > > Stuart > > > > *From:* Stuart Feldhamer [mailto:stuart.feldhamer at gmail.com] > *Sent:* Wednesday, November 05, 2008 9:54 PM > *To:* 'IGDA Game Preservation SIG' > *Subject:* RE: [game_preservation] Michael Crichton, dead at 66 > > > > Sad news indeed. FYI, Amazon was also available for other platforms, > including Apple and IBM PC. > > > > In the spirit of preservation, I've attached an article I scanned from an > old magazine. > > > > Stuart > > > > *From:* game_preservation-bounces at igda.org [mailto: > game_preservation-bounces at igda.org] *On Behalf Of *Devin Monnens > *Sent:* Wednesday, November 05, 2008 7:00 PM > *To:* IGDA Game Preservation SIG > *Subject:* [game_preservation] Michael Crichton, dead at 66 > > > > Michael Crichton, famous speculative fiction and thriller author, died Nov > 4 after a long battle with cancer. He was 66. > > Though he's best known for his novels and his work challenging scientists, > he also wrote the graphical text adventure, *Amazon *(C64, 1984) and > directed and designed *Timeline* (Windows, 2000), the game based on his > novel. > > http://www.mobygames.com/game/amazon > http://www.mobygames.com/game/timeline > www.michaelcrichton.com > > I was incredibly shocked and saddened to hear this when I got home from > work today. Crichton's work with Jurassic Park was what inspired me to > become a writer. If I hadn't read his novels, chances are I wouldn't be as > good a writer as I am today. I'm sad I never got the chance to meet him, but > am grateful for his work. > > -- > The sleep of Reason produces monsters. > > "Until next time..." > Captain Commando > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > > -- The sleep of Reason produces monsters. "Until next time..." Captain Commando -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From evilcowclone at gmail.com Wed Nov 12 16:06:55 2008 From: evilcowclone at gmail.com (Devin Monnens) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 14:06:55 -0700 Subject: [game_preservation] Memorials icon In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hey, that's pretty good! I'll forward this to the SIG and see what they think. How does it look if we have a red flower and yellow stamen? Did you model this off a particular flower? I know that poppies are used for war memorials, but that's a very specific, and can be somewhat contentious, use... Thanks, Ryan! -Devin On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 10:18 AM, Ryan Barrett wrote: > Hey, > i made this for the memorials icon, on the IGDA website. I think you'll > agree this fits pretty perfectly. It's a lily. The reference i used you > can see here: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:LiliumBulbiferumCroceumBologna.jpg > It's even in the IGDA colors! > > Anyway, yeah there it is. Hope you like! > > --Ryan > > -- > "Why do the mundane when you could do magic?" > --John Kricfalusi > -- The sleep of Reason produces monsters. "Until next time..." Captain Commando -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrew at aarmstrong.org Wed Nov 12 16:09:17 2008 From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 21:09:17 +0000 Subject: [game_preservation] Memorials icon In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <491B45FD.3020508@aarmstrong.org> Attachments don't carry onto mailing list messages. Got a URL for the icon? :) Reminds me I need to look at the ideas put forward for the Preservation SIG's own icon, haha. Andrew Devin Monnens wrote: > Hey, that's pretty good! I'll forward this to the SIG and see what > they think. > > How does it look if we have a red flower and yellow stamen? Did you > model this off a particular flower? I know that poppies are used for > war memorials, but that's a very specific, and can be somewhat > contentious, use... > > Thanks, Ryan! > > -Devin > > On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 10:18 AM, Ryan Barrett > > wrote: > > Hey, > i made this for the memorials icon, on the IGDA website. I think > you'll agree this fits pretty perfectly. It's a lily. The > reference i used you can see here: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:LiliumBulbiferumCroceumBologna.jpg > It's even in the IGDA colors! > > Anyway, yeah there it is. Hope you like! > > --Ryan > > -- > "Why do the mundane when you could do magic?" > --John Kricfalusi > > > > > -- > The sleep of Reason produces monsters. > > "Until next time..." > Captain Commando > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From evilcowclone at gmail.com Wed Nov 12 16:11:52 2008 From: evilcowclone at gmail.com (Devin Monnens) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 14:11:52 -0700 Subject: [game_preservation] Memorials icon In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: D'oh! I TOTALLY didn't read that about the link. Lillies are used for memorials to deceased loved ones (for some reason, I'd always associated them with white, though!). Kinda sad I didn't remember that, as I did a bit of research on symbolism of flowers for my Poppies game... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flower#Symbolism Anyway, this makes it PERFECT. -Devin On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 2:06 PM, Devin Monnens wrote: > Hey, that's pretty good! I'll forward this to the SIG and see what they > think. > > How does it look if we have a red flower and yellow stamen? Did you model > this off a particular flower? I know that poppies are used for war > memorials, but that's a very specific, and can be somewhat > contentious, use... > > Thanks, Ryan! > > -Devin > > On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 10:18 AM, Ryan Barrett wrote: > >> Hey, >> i made this for the memorials icon, on the IGDA website. I think you'll >> agree this fits pretty perfectly. It's a lily. The reference i used you >> can see here: >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:LiliumBulbiferumCroceumBologna.jpg >> It's even in the IGDA colors! >> >> Anyway, yeah there it is. Hope you like! >> >> --Ryan >> >> -- >> "Why do the mundane when you could do magic?" >> --John Kricfalusi >> > > > > -- > The sleep of Reason produces monsters. > > "Until next time..." > Captain Commando > -- The sleep of Reason produces monsters. "Until next time..." Captain Commando -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: memorials_icon.png Type: image/png Size: 2199 bytes Desc: not available Url : From andrew at aarmstrong.org Wed Nov 12 16:14:07 2008 From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 21:14:07 +0000 Subject: [game_preservation] Memorials icon In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <491B471F.3030204@aarmstrong.org> This time it's attached, hooray! Looks nice, we'd need a larger version (well, I presume it's done with vector graphics) for the main page icon, although that's a perfect size for the mini front-wiki-page one :) Andrew Devin Monnens wrote: > D'oh! I TOTALLY didn't read that about the link. Lillies are used for > memorials to deceased loved ones (for some reason, I'd always > associated them with white, though!). Kinda sad I didn't remember > that, as I did a bit of research on symbolism of flowers for my > Poppies game... > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flower#Symbolism > > Anyway, this makes it PERFECT. > > -Devin > On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 2:06 PM, Devin Monnens > wrote: > > Hey, that's pretty good! I'll forward this to the SIG and see what > they think. > > How does it look if we have a red flower and yellow stamen? Did > you model this off a particular flower? I know that poppies are > used for war memorials, but that's a very specific, and can be > somewhat contentious, use... > > Thanks, Ryan! > > -Devin > > On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 10:18 AM, Ryan Barrett > > wrote: > > Hey, > i made this for the memorials icon, on the IGDA website. I > think you'll agree this fits pretty perfectly. It's a lily. > The reference i used you can see here: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:LiliumBulbiferumCroceumBologna.jpg > It's even in the IGDA colors! > > Anyway, yeah there it is. Hope you like! > > --Ryan > > -- > "Why do the mundane when you could do magic?" > --John Kricfalusi > > > > > -- > The sleep of Reason produces monsters. > > "Until next time..." > Captain Commando > > > > > -- > The sleep of Reason produces monsters. > > "Until next time..." > Captain Commando > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/png Size: 2199 bytes Desc: not available Url : From evilcowclone at gmail.com Wed Nov 12 16:15:33 2008 From: evilcowclone at gmail.com (Devin Monnens) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 14:15:33 -0700 Subject: [game_preservation] Memorials icon In-Reply-To: <491B471F.3030204@aarmstrong.org> References: <491B471F.3030204@aarmstrong.org> Message-ID: What size do you need? It's in vector. On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 2:14 PM, Andrew Armstrong wrote: > This time it's attached, hooray! > > Looks nice, we'd need a larger version (well, I presume it's done with > vector graphics) for the main page icon, although that's a perfect size for > the mini front-wiki-page one :) > > Andrew > > Devin Monnens wrote: > > D'oh! I TOTALLY didn't read that about the link. Lillies are used for > memorials to deceased loved ones (for some reason, I'd always associated > them with white, though!). Kinda sad I didn't remember that, as I did a bit > of research on symbolism of flowers for my Poppies game... > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flower#Symbolism > > Anyway, this makes it PERFECT. > > -Devin > On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 2:06 PM, Devin Monnens wrote: > >> Hey, that's pretty good! I'll forward this to the SIG and see what they >> think. >> >> How does it look if we have a red flower and yellow stamen? Did you model >> this off a particular flower? I know that poppies are used for war >> memorials, but that's a very specific, and can be somewhat >> contentious, use... >> >> Thanks, Ryan! >> >> -Devin >> >> On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 10:18 AM, Ryan Barrett wrote: >> >>> Hey, >>> i made this for the memorials icon, on the IGDA website. I think you'll >>> agree this fits pretty perfectly. It's a lily. The reference i used you >>> can see here: >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:LiliumBulbiferumCroceumBologna.jpg >>> It's even in the IGDA colors! >>> >>> Anyway, yeah there it is. Hope you like! >>> >>> --Ryan >>> >>> -- >>> "Why do the mundane when you could do magic?" >>> --John Kricfalusi >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> The sleep of Reason produces monsters. >> >> "Until next time..." >> Captain Commando >> > > > > -- > The sleep of Reason produces monsters. > > "Until next time..." > Captain Commando > > ------------------------------ > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing listgame_preservation at igda.orghttp://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > > -- The sleep of Reason produces monsters. "Until next time..." Captain Commando -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/png Size: 2199 bytes Desc: not available Url : From andrew at aarmstrong.org Wed Nov 12 16:18:19 2008 From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 21:18:19 +0000 Subject: [game_preservation] Memorials icon In-Reply-To: References: <491B471F.3030204@aarmstrong.org> Message-ID: <491B481B.1000800@aarmstrong.org> If we have a copy uploaded in a large size the wiki software can resize it automatically. 512x512 minimum or so. Allows us to reuse it for any other uses (posters or anything...) Andrew Devin Monnens wrote: > What size do you need? It's in vector. > > On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 2:14 PM, Andrew Armstrong > > wrote: > > This time it's attached, hooray! > > Looks nice, we'd need a larger version (well, I presume it's done > with vector graphics) for the main page icon, although that's a > perfect size for the mini front-wiki-page one :) > > Andrew > > Devin Monnens wrote: >> D'oh! I TOTALLY didn't read that about the link. Lillies are used >> for memorials to deceased loved ones (for some reason, I'd always >> associated them with white, though!). Kinda sad I didn't remember >> that, as I did a bit of research on symbolism of flowers for my >> Poppies game... >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flower#Symbolism >> >> Anyway, this makes it PERFECT. >> >> -Devin >> On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 2:06 PM, Devin Monnens >> > wrote: >> >> Hey, that's pretty good! I'll forward this to the SIG and see >> what they think. >> >> How does it look if we have a red flower and yellow stamen? >> Did you model this off a particular flower? I know that >> poppies are used for war memorials, but that's a very >> specific, and can be somewhat contentious, use... >> >> Thanks, Ryan! >> >> -Devin >> >> On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 10:18 AM, Ryan Barrett >> > wrote: >> >> Hey, >> i made this for the memorials icon, on the IGDA website. >> I think you'll agree this fits pretty perfectly. It's a >> lily. The reference i used you can see here: >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:LiliumBulbiferumCroceumBologna.jpg >> It's even in the IGDA colors! >> >> Anyway, yeah there it is. Hope you like! >> >> --Ryan >> >> -- >> "Why do the mundane when you could do magic?" >> --John Kricfalusi >> >> >> >> >> -- >> The sleep of Reason produces monsters. >> >> "Until next time..." >> Captain Commando >> >> >> >> >> -- >> The sleep of Reason produces monsters. >> >> "Until next time..." >> Captain Commando >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> game_preservation mailing list >> game_preservation at igda.org >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation >> > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > > > > > -- > The sleep of Reason produces monsters. > > "Until next time..." > Captain Commando > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/png Size: 2199 bytes Desc: not available Url : From lowood at stanford.edu Wed Nov 12 17:08:46 2008 From: lowood at stanford.edu (Henry Lowood) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 14:08:46 -0800 Subject: [game_preservation] Memorials icon In-Reply-To: <491B471F.3030204@aarmstrong.org> References: <491B471F.3030204@aarmstrong.org> Message-ID: <491B53EE.6010304@stanford.edu> I like it, too. Henry Andrew Armstrong wrote: > This time it's attached, hooray! > > Looks nice, we'd need a larger version (well, I presume it's done with > vector graphics) for the main page icon, although that's a perfect > size for the mini front-wiki-page one :) > > Andrew > > Devin Monnens wrote: >> D'oh! I TOTALLY didn't read that about the link. Lillies are used for >> memorials to deceased loved ones (for some reason, I'd always >> associated them with white, though!). Kinda sad I didn't remember >> that, as I did a bit of research on symbolism of flowers for my >> Poppies game... >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flower#Symbolism >> >> Anyway, this makes it PERFECT. >> >> -Devin >> On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 2:06 PM, Devin Monnens >> > wrote: >> >> Hey, that's pretty good! I'll forward this to the SIG and see >> what they think. >> >> How does it look if we have a red flower and yellow stamen? Did >> you model this off a particular flower? I know that poppies are >> used for war memorials, but that's a very specific, and can be >> somewhat contentious, use... >> >> Thanks, Ryan! >> >> -Devin >> >> On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 10:18 AM, Ryan Barrett >> > wrote: >> >> Hey, >> i made this for the memorials icon, on the IGDA website. I >> think you'll agree this fits pretty perfectly. It's a lily. >> The reference i used you can see here: >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:LiliumBulbiferumCroceumBologna.jpg >> It's even in the IGDA colors! >> >> Anyway, yeah there it is. Hope you like! >> >> --Ryan >> >> -- >> "Why do the mundane when you could do magic?" >> --John Kricfalusi >> >> >> >> >> -- >> The sleep of Reason produces monsters. >> >> "Until next time..." >> Captain Commando >> >> >> >> >> -- >> The sleep of Reason produces monsters. >> >> "Until next time..." >> Captain Commando >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> game_preservation mailing list >> game_preservation at igda.org >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > -- Henry Lowood, Ph.D. Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections; Film & Media Collections HRG, Green Library, 557 Escondido Mall Stanford University Libraries Stanford CA 94305-6004 650-723-4602; lowood at stanford.edu; http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood From andrew at aarmstrong.org Wed Nov 12 19:51:24 2008 From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 00:51:24 +0000 Subject: [game_preservation] Memorials icon In-Reply-To: References: <491B471F.3030204@aarmstrong.org> <491B481B.1000800@aarmstrong.org> Message-ID: <491B7A0C.4090207@aarmstrong.org> Awesome! Absolutely amazing looking that big :) I've added it to our wiki pages. Once we get a new site, our project list will get the icon too. Now we need a cool SIG icon - I'll get around to posting more in that thread (ideas welcome remember guys ;) ) - because wow, that makes it look so much more professional :-D Andrew Ryan Barrett wrote: > Here is the 512x512 version. It should scale down to 150px pretty > nicely, as I already checked that's the dimensions for the large one > on the main page of each section. Glad I could help out! > > --Ryan From evilcowclone at gmail.com Fri Nov 14 11:33:40 2008 From: evilcowclone at gmail.com (Devin Monnens) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 09:33:40 -0700 Subject: [game_preservation] More fiction Message-ID: I sent a message awhile back about how the intro to The Big Lebowski (the mockumentary) would be a good resource. I also recently heard about the Philip K. Dick short story, "The Preservation Machine," in which a man transcodes famous music into animal form (the animals then go awry). This one might also be good to read. There was also a Roman or Greek play that I referenced awhile back on the futility of preserving everything, but I can't find the name of it. Anyone remember that? -Devin -- The sleep of Reason produces monsters. "Until next time..." Captain Commando -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrew at aarmstrong.org Thu Nov 20 10:37:06 2008 From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 15:37:06 +0000 Subject: [game_preservation] Google Shutting down Lively Message-ID: <49258422.3010006@aarmstrong.org> http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/11/20/144248 That was fast! 6 months total. I hope the Virtual Worlds project can scrounge some things from it, the actual world/platform/community might not be the best, but since it's coming from Google, there must be some bits and pieces there. Andrew From lowood at stanford.edu Thu Nov 20 13:06:15 2008 From: lowood at stanford.edu (Henry Lowood) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:06:15 -0800 Subject: [game_preservation] Google Shutting down Lively In-Reply-To: <49258422.3010006@aarmstrong.org> References: <49258422.3010006@aarmstrong.org> Message-ID: <4925A717.1090402@stanford.edu> Actually 4.5 months. Did you see in the announcement that they are encouraging users to take screenshots and videos of their sites? I would be happy to take anything like that in the Archiving Virtual Worlds collection, which is available for exactly this sort of thing. If you hear about such documentation, feel free to point them to the collection or even to me if they need help uploading. Henry Andrew Armstrong wrote: > http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/11/20/144248 > > That was fast! 6 months total. > > I hope the Virtual Worlds project can scrounge some things from it, > the actual world/platform/community might not be the best, but since > it's coming from Google, there must be some bits and pieces there. > > Andrew > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation -- Henry Lowood, Ph.D. Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections; Film & Media Collections HRG, Green Library, 557 Escondido Mall Stanford University Libraries Stanford CA 94305-6004 650-723-4602; lowood at stanford.edu; http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrew at aarmstrong.org Thu Nov 20 17:16:01 2008 From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 22:16:01 +0000 Subject: [game_preservation] Google Shutting down Lively In-Reply-To: <4925A717.1090402@stanford.edu> References: <49258422.3010006@aarmstrong.org> <4925A717.1090402@stanford.edu> Message-ID: <4925E1A1.3040709@aarmstrong.org> Yeah, certainly if I notice anything online, I'll post about it here.Keep an eye out everyone! Defiantly, if it was longer running there'd be a better community and it'd be easier to go out and email those sites for help regarding this. I very much doubt Google themselves would do much to help if contacted - generally their "dead" things really, really stay dead (see their Google Sync for Firefox, entirely binned, sigh), and they usually don't release much for historians. Might be worth a shot though, on the off hand :) Andrew Henry Lowood wrote: > Actually 4.5 months. Did you see in the announcement that they are > encouraging users to take screenshots and videos of their sites? I > would be happy to take anything like that in the Archiving Virtual > Worlds collection, which is available for exactly this sort of thing. > If you hear about such documentation, feel free to point them to the > collection or even to me if they need help uploading. > > Henry > > Andrew Armstrong wrote: >> http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/11/20/144248 >> >> That was fast! 6 months total. >> >> I hope the Virtual Worlds project can scrounge some things from it, >> the actual world/platform/community might not be the best, but since >> it's coming from Google, there must be some bits and pieces there. >> >> Andrew >> _______________________________________________ >> game_preservation mailing list >> game_preservation at igda.org >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > > -- > Henry Lowood, Ph.D. > Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections; > Film & Media Collections > HRG, Green Library, 557 Escondido Mall > Stanford University Libraries > Stanford CA 94305-6004 > 650-723-4602; lowood at stanford.edu; http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrew at aarmstrong.org Fri Nov 21 19:47:38 2008 From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong) Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 00:47:38 +0000 Subject: [game_preservation] White Paper: Case Study Research! Message-ID: <492756AA.9040801@aarmstrong.org> Hey all you people with knowledge about videogame history. There's one part of the white paper we could do with major SIG work on as a whole - we've decided the majority of the paper content, which you can check out here (comment on it if you like): http://www.igda.org/wiki/Game_Preservation_SIG/White_Paper/Before_It%27s_Too_Late:_A_Digital_Game_Preservation_White_Paper The main part that we need information on is the Case Study: "What If We Do Nothing?" This requires either a savvy fictional account of the future where we don't preserve much of anything, or some good examples of what we have already lost (a nice twist, we reveal this has already happened.../dun dun dun!/). There are a few examples brought up before, but nothing much detailed for a real-life example. This means we might have to come up with a fictional account anyway, or a hybrid. So: ideas welcome! What's the worst story you can think of, or the worst actual thing that's been lost so far! It's aimed at developers remember - not historians/preservationists/archivists themselves (we already know how important it all is) - so a relevant example for developers (crediting of their works? people unable to play their games soon in the future? simply them dropping off the face of the earth in historical terms?) would be great. Thanks if anyone can help on this! Andrew PS: we still want logo ideas from an earlier thread, surely someone must have some good ideas for them too ;) there's enough of you listening to these emails I hope! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrew at aarmstrong.org Sat Nov 22 18:39:34 2008 From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong) Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 23:39:34 +0000 Subject: [game_preservation] Google Shutting down Lively In-Reply-To: <4925E1A1.3040709@aarmstrong.org> References: <49258422.3010006@aarmstrong.org> <4925A717.1090402@stanford.edu> <4925E1A1.3040709@aarmstrong.org> Message-ID: <49289836.70201@aarmstrong.org> Hot on the heels...Tabula Rasa as we all know didn't do to well. Feb 28th is the death knell for it - http://www.rgtr.com/news/latest_news/message_from_the_tabula_rasa_t.html Anyone know any others closing down? Andrew Andrew Armstrong wrote: > Yeah, certainly if I notice anything online, I'll post about it > here.Keep an eye out everyone! > > Defiantly, if it was longer running there'd be a better community and > it'd be easier to go out and email those sites for help regarding this. > > I very much doubt Google themselves would do much to help if contacted > - generally their "dead" things really, really stay dead (see their > Google Sync for Firefox, entirely binned, sigh), and they usually > don't release much for historians. Might be worth a shot though, on > the off hand :) > > Andrew > > Henry Lowood wrote: >> Actually 4.5 months. Did you see in the announcement that they are >> encouraging users to take screenshots and videos of their sites? I >> would be happy to take anything like that in the Archiving Virtual >> Worlds collection, which is available for exactly this sort of >> thing. If you hear about such documentation, feel free to point them >> to the collection or even to me if they need help uploading. >> >> Henry >> >> Andrew Armstrong wrote: >>> http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/11/20/144248 >>> >>> That was fast! 6 months total. >>> >>> I hope the Virtual Worlds project can scrounge some things from it, >>> the actual world/platform/community might not be the best, but since >>> it's coming from Google, there must be some bits and pieces there. >>> >>> Andrew >>> _______________________________________________ >>> game_preservation mailing list >>> game_preservation at igda.org >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation >> >> -- >> Henry Lowood, Ph.D. >> Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections; >> Film & Media Collections >> HRG, Green Library, 557 Escondido Mall >> Stanford University Libraries >> Stanford CA 94305-6004 >> 650-723-4602; lowood at stanford.edu; http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> game_preservation mailing list >> game_preservation at igda.org >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From evilcowclone at gmail.com Sat Nov 22 19:14:46 2008 From: evilcowclone at gmail.com (Devin Monnens) Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 17:14:46 -0700 Subject: [game_preservation] Google Shutting down Lively In-Reply-To: <49289836.70201@aarmstrong.org> References: <49258422.3010006@aarmstrong.org> <4925A717.1090402@stanford.edu> <4925E1A1.3040709@aarmstrong.org> <49289836.70201@aarmstrong.org> Message-ID: That's too bad. Richard Garriot was so hopeful about it. They had the LE version selling for pennies. Would have been worth it for the soundtrack maybe. On Sat, Nov 22, 2008 at 4:39 PM, Andrew Armstrong wrote: > Hot on the heels...Tabula Rasa as we all know didn't do to well. > > Feb 28th is the death knell for it - > http://www.rgtr.com/news/latest_news/message_from_the_tabula_rasa_t.html > > Anyone know any others closing down? > > Andrew > > Andrew Armstrong wrote: > > Yeah, certainly if I notice anything online, I'll post about it here.Keep > an eye out everyone! > > Defiantly, if it was longer running there'd be a better community and it'd > be easier to go out and email those sites for help regarding this. > > I very much doubt Google themselves would do much to help if contacted - > generally their "dead" things really, really stay dead (see their Google > Sync for Firefox, entirely binned, sigh), and they usually don't release > much for historians. Might be worth a shot though, on the off hand :) > > Andrew > > Henry Lowood wrote: > > Actually 4.5 months. Did you see in the announcement that they are > encouraging users to take screenshots and videos of their sites? I would be > happy to take anything like that in the Archiving Virtual Worlds collection, > which is available for exactly this sort of thing. If you hear about such > documentation, feel free to point them to the collection or even to me if > they need help uploading. > > Henry > > Andrew Armstrong wrote: > > http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/11/20/144248 > > That was fast! 6 months total. > > I hope the Virtual Worlds project can scrounge some things from it, the > actual world/platform/community might not be the best, but since it's coming > from Google, there must be some bits and pieces there. > > Andrew > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > > > -- > Henry Lowood, Ph.D. > Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections; > Film & Media Collections > HRG, Green Library, 557 Escondido Mall > Stanford University Libraries > Stanford CA 94305-6004 > 650-723-4602; lowood at stanford.edu; http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood > > ------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing listgame_preservation at igda.orghttp://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > > ------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing listgame_preservation at igda.orghttp://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > > -- The sleep of Reason produces monsters. "Until next time..." Captain Commando -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrew at aarmstrong.org Sun Nov 23 08:57:13 2008 From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong) Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 13:57:13 +0000 Subject: [game_preservation] Google Shutting down Lively In-Reply-To: References: <49258422.3010006@aarmstrong.org> <4925A717.1090402@stanford.edu> <4925E1A1.3040709@aarmstrong.org> <49289836.70201@aarmstrong.org> Message-ID: <49296139.8060604@aarmstrong.org> Well, the soundtrack will certainly be the only thing you can play from the package once it goes offline! *zing* I've no idea how good/bad this MMO was because, I've found, MMO's pretty much are grindtastic and no one I know plays them much, so no community for me ;) I do wonder if one will come along I'll actually want to play, but some do drop like flies. Andrew Devin Monnens wrote: > That's too bad. Richard Garriot was so hopeful about it. They had the > LE version selling for pennies. Would have been worth it for the > soundtrack maybe. > > On Sat, Nov 22, 2008 at 4:39 PM, Andrew Armstrong > > wrote: > > Hot on the heels...Tabula Rasa as we all know didn't do to well. > > Feb 28th is the death knell for it - > http://www.rgtr.com/news/latest_news/message_from_the_tabula_rasa_t.html > > Anyone know any others closing down? > > Andrew > > Andrew Armstrong wrote: >> Yeah, certainly if I notice anything online, I'll post about it >> here.Keep an eye out everyone! >> >> Defiantly, if it was longer running there'd be a better community >> and it'd be easier to go out and email those sites for help >> regarding this. >> >> I very much doubt Google themselves would do much to help if >> contacted - generally their "dead" things really, really stay >> dead (see their Google Sync for Firefox, entirely binned, sigh), >> and they usually don't release much for historians. Might be >> worth a shot though, on the off hand :) >> >> Andrew >> >> Henry Lowood wrote: >>> Actually 4.5 months. Did you see in the announcement that they >>> are encouraging users to take screenshots and videos of their >>> sites? I would be happy to take anything like that in the >>> Archiving Virtual Worlds collection, which is available for >>> exactly this sort of thing. If you hear about such >>> documentation, feel free to point them to the collection or even >>> to me if they need help uploading. >>> >>> Henry >>> >>> Andrew Armstrong wrote: >>>> http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/11/20/144248 >>>> >>>> That was fast! 6 months total. >>>> >>>> I hope the Virtual Worlds project can scrounge some things from >>>> it, the actual world/platform/community might not be the best, >>>> but since it's coming from Google, there must be some bits and >>>> pieces there. >>>> >>>> Andrew >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> game_preservation mailing list >>>> game_preservation at igda.org >>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation >>> >>> -- >>> Henry Lowood, Ph.D. >>> Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections; >>> Film & Media Collections >>> HRG, Green Library, 557 Escondido Mall >>> Stanford University Libraries >>> Stanford CA 94305-6004 >>> 650-723-4602; lowood at stanford.edu ; >>> http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> _______________________________________________ >>> game_preservation mailing list >>> game_preservation at igda.org >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation >>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> _______________________________________________ >> game_preservation mailing list >> game_preservation at igda.org >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > > > > > -- > The sleep of Reason produces monsters. > > "Until next time..." > Captain Commando > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From evilcowclone at gmail.com Sun Nov 23 09:22:26 2008 From: evilcowclone at gmail.com (Devin Monnens) Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 07:22:26 -0700 Subject: [game_preservation] Google Shutting down Lively In-Reply-To: <49296139.8060604@aarmstrong.org> References: <49258422.3010006@aarmstrong.org> <4925A717.1090402@stanford.edu> <4925E1A1.3040709@aarmstrong.org> <49289836.70201@aarmstrong.org> <49296139.8060604@aarmstrong.org> Message-ID: Well, I did end up purchasing Guild Wars when it first came out... But I still haven't played the damn thing. This seems to me like a very bad decision... On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 6:57 AM, Andrew Armstrong wrote: > Well, the soundtrack will certainly be the only thing you can play from > the package once it goes offline! > > *zing* > > I've no idea how good/bad this MMO was because, I've found, MMO's pretty > much are grindtastic and no one I know plays them much, so no community for > me ;) I do wonder if one will come along I'll actually want to play, but > some do drop like flies. > > Andrew > > Devin Monnens wrote: > > That's too bad. Richard Garriot was so hopeful about it. They had the LE > version selling for pennies. Would have been worth it for the soundtrack > maybe. > > On Sat, Nov 22, 2008 at 4:39 PM, Andrew Armstrong wrote: > >> Hot on the heels...Tabula Rasa as we all know didn't do to well. >> >> Feb 28th is the death knell for it - >> http://www.rgtr.com/news/latest_news/message_from_the_tabula_rasa_t.html >> >> Anyone know any others closing down? >> >> Andrew >> >> Andrew Armstrong wrote: >> >> Yeah, certainly if I notice anything online, I'll post about it >> here.Keep an eye out everyone! >> >> Defiantly, if it was longer running there'd be a better community and it'd >> be easier to go out and email those sites for help regarding this. >> >> I very much doubt Google themselves would do much to help if contacted - >> generally their "dead" things really, really stay dead (see their Google >> Sync for Firefox, entirely binned, sigh), and they usually don't release >> much for historians. Might be worth a shot though, on the off hand :) >> >> Andrew >> >> Henry Lowood wrote: >> >> Actually 4.5 months. Did you see in the announcement that they are >> encouraging users to take screenshots and videos of their sites? I would be >> happy to take anything like that in the Archiving Virtual Worlds collection, >> which is available for exactly this sort of thing. If you hear about such >> documentation, feel free to point them to the collection or even to me if >> they need help uploading. >> >> Henry >> >> Andrew Armstrong wrote: >> >> http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/11/20/144248 >> >> That was fast! 6 months total. >> >> I hope the Virtual Worlds project can scrounge some things from it, the >> actual world/platform/community might not be the best, but since it's coming >> from Google, there must be some bits and pieces there. >> >> Andrew >> _______________________________________________ >> game_preservation mailing list >> game_preservation at igda.org >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation >> >> >> -- >> Henry Lowood, Ph.D. >> Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections; >> Film & Media Collections >> HRG, Green Library, 557 Escondido Mall >> Stanford University Libraries >> Stanford CA 94305-6004 >> 650-723-4602; lowood at stanford.edu; http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood >> >> ------------------------------ >> _______________________________________________ >> game_preservation mailing listgame_preservation at igda.orghttp://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation >> >> ------------------------------ >> _______________________________________________ >> game_preservation mailing listgame_preservation at igda.orghttp://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> game_preservation mailing list >> game_preservation at igda.org >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation >> >> > > > -- > The sleep of Reason produces monsters. > > "Until next time..." > Captain Commando > > ------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing listgame_preservation at igda.orghttp://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > > -- The sleep of Reason produces monsters. "Until next time..." Captain Commando -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stuart.feldhamer at gmail.com Fri Nov 28 00:03:38 2008 From: stuart.feldhamer at gmail.com (Stuart Feldhamer) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 00:03:38 -0500 Subject: [game_preservation] White Paper: Case Study Research! In-Reply-To: <492756AA.9040801@aarmstrong.org> References: <492756AA.9040801@aarmstrong.org> Message-ID: <492f7bbc.e203be0a.2ef2.ffff9e0e@mx.google.com> To me the greatest loss is when a game itself becomes lost. There have been several cases in the past where a title was thought not to exist or not to have been released despite the presence of ads for the title, until a copy was eventually found. I believe the infamous Ultima: Escape from Mt. Drash fits into that category. Well what if the game had never been found and verified? Only a few copies are known to exist. What if there are titles that we think don't exist but really do and have been lost? Even if we are 99.9% sure that a game hasn't been officially released, does that mean it shouldn't be preserved? There are some games that although they were never released (to the best of our collective knowledge), may have been complete or very close to complete and were just killed at the end for financial reasons. One example that came up in discussion not that long ago was Ultima 8: The Lost Vale expansion, for which a box prototype turned up. The code may turn up at some point - it may even be among the mass of materials that the Wing Commander fans got from EA from the old Origin collection. But EA didn't really care too much about preserving that stuff, and so for now, the code is lost. Another game that was killed close to the finish line and which I personally mourned was Star Trek: The Secret of Vulcan Fury. DeForest Kelley (Dr. McCoy) even recorded voice acting for that one before he died and it presumably has been thrown in the garbage. I'm not sure how this group feels about unreleased games, but I would think that developers in particular would want to preserve them. I was reading something on Gamasutra the other day where a developer was saying that he's been in the industry for 10 years (or something like that) and only had 2 released titles, because the other 3 were cancelled after the team had put in a lot of work. Should that work be preserved, if it was at the point where the game was playable and viable? Does the decision of a marketing exec ultimately define whether or not we want to preserve a title? I realize there are intellectual property laws in play here, but ultimately we have these "guerilla preservationists" who will do what is needed despite the law, such as finding an old Atari 2600 game prototype on cartridge and then dumping it onto the net so it can be preserved. Anyway, it's late and I think I rambled a bit, but I hope I got some coherent thought across. Happy Thanksgiving. : ) Stuart From: game_preservation-bounces at igda.org [mailto:game_preservation-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Armstrong Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 7:48 PM To: IGDA Game Preservation SIG Subject: [game_preservation] White Paper: Case Study Research! Hey all you people with knowledge about videogame history. There's one part of the white paper we could do with major SIG work on as a whole - we've decided the majority of the paper content, which you can check out here (comment on it if you like): http://www.igda.org/wiki/Game_Preservation_SIG/White_Paper/Before_It%27s_Too _Late:_A_Digital_Game_Preservation_White_Paper The main part that we need information on is the Case Study: "What If We Do Nothing?" This requires either a savvy fictional account of the future where we don't preserve much of anything, or some good examples of what we have already lost (a nice twist, we reveal this has already happened...dun dun dun!). There are a few examples brought up before, but nothing much detailed for a real-life example. This means we might have to come up with a fictional account anyway, or a hybrid. So: ideas welcome! What's the worst story you can think of, or the worst actual thing that's been lost so far! It's aimed at developers remember - not historians/preservationists/archivists themselves (we already know how important it all is) - so a relevant example for developers (crediting of their works? people unable to play their games soon in the future? simply them dropping off the face of the earth in historical terms?) would be great. Thanks if anyone can help on this! Andrew PS: we still want logo ideas from an earlier thread, surely someone must have some good ideas for them too ;) there's enough of you listening to these emails I hope! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrew at aarmstrong.org Fri Nov 28 08:26:32 2008 From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 13:26:32 +0000 Subject: [game_preservation] White Paper: Case Study Research! In-Reply-To: <492f7bbc.e203be0a.2ef2.ffff9e0e@mx.google.com> References: <492756AA.9040801@aarmstrong.org> <492f7bbc.e203be0a.2ef2.ffff9e0e@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <492FF188.4050204@aarmstrong.org> Neat thoughts, there's a lot of areas for this section to go actually and one is the entire loss of games, especially unreleased ones. I bet a lot of developers must take in their stride cancellations - there's a high percent which are cancelled at various stages, the worst being close to going gold. Anyone know any more examples of them? Hmm, I'm thinking it might be better to make a fictional account up for the case study. I'm not sure what'll work best myself, but lost games are certainly one major thing. Andrew Stuart Feldhamer wrote: > > To me the greatest loss is when a game itself becomes lost. There have > been several cases in the past where a title was thought not to exist > or not to have been released despite the presence of ads for the > title, until a copy was eventually found. I believe the infamous > Ultima: Escape from Mt. Drash fits into that category. Well what if > the game had never been found and verified? Only a few copies are > known to exist. What if there are titles that we think don't exist but > really do and have been lost? > > > > Even if we are 99.9% sure that a game hasn't been officially released, > does that mean it shouldn't be preserved? There are some games that > although they were never released (to the best of our collective > knowledge), may have been complete or very close to complete and were > just killed at the end for financial reasons. One example that came up > in discussion not that long ago was Ultima 8: The Lost Vale expansion, > for which a box prototype turned up. The code may turn up at some > point - it may even be among the mass of materials that the Wing > Commander fans got from EA from the old Origin collection. But EA > didn't really care too much about preserving that stuff, and so for > now, the code is lost. Another game that was killed close to the > finish line and which I personally mourned was Star Trek: The Secret > of Vulcan Fury. DeForest Kelley (Dr. McCoy) even recorded voice acting > for that one before he died and it presumably has been thrown in the > garbage. > > > > I'm not sure how this group feels about unreleased games, but I would > think that developers in particular would want to preserve them. I was > reading something on Gamasutra the other day where a developer was > saying that he's been in the industry for 10 years (or something like > that) and only had 2 released titles, because the other 3 were > cancelled after the team had put in a lot of work. Should that work be > preserved, if it was at the point where the game was playable and > viable? Does the decision of a marketing exec ultimately define > whether or not we want to preserve a title? I realize there are > intellectual property laws in play here, but ultimately we have these > "guerilla preservationists" who will do what is needed despite the > law, such as finding an old Atari 2600 game prototype on cartridge and > then dumping it onto the net so it can be preserved. > > > > Anyway, it's late and I think I rambled a bit, but I hope I got some > coherent thought across. Happy Thanksgiving. : ) > > > > Stuart > > > > *From:* game_preservation-bounces at igda.org > [mailto:game_preservation-bounces at igda.org] *On Behalf Of *Andrew > Armstrong > *Sent:* Friday, November 21, 2008 7:48 PM > *To:* IGDA Game Preservation SIG > *Subject:* [game_preservation] White Paper: Case Study Research! > > > > Hey all you people with knowledge about videogame history. There's one > part of the white paper we could do with major SIG work on as a whole > - we've decided the majority of the paper content, which you can check > out here (comment on it if you like): > > http://www.igda.org/wiki/Game_Preservation_SIG/White_Paper/Before_It%27s_Too_Late:_A_Digital_Game_Preservation_White_Paper > > The main part that we need information on is the Case Study: "What If > We Do Nothing?" > > This requires either a savvy fictional account of the future where we > don't preserve much of anything, or some good examples of what we have > already lost (a nice twist, we reveal this has already happened.../dun > dun dun!/). > > There are a few examples brought up > > before, but nothing much detailed for a real-life example. This means > we might have to come up with a fictional account anyway, or a hybrid. > > So: ideas welcome! What's the worst story you can think of, or the > worst actual thing that's been lost so far! > > It's aimed at developers remember - not > historians/preservationists/archivists themselves (we already know how > important it all is) - so a relevant example for developers (crediting > of their works? people unable to play their games soon in the future? > simply them dropping off the face of the earth in historical terms?) > would be great. > > Thanks if anyone can help on this! > > Andrew > > PS: we still want logo ideas from an earlier thread, surely someone > must have some good ideas for them too ;) there's enough of you > listening to these emails I hope! > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From if at caps-project.org Fri Nov 28 08:53:46 2008 From: if at caps-project.org (=?iso-8859-1?B?SXN0duFuIEbhYmnhbg==?=) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 13:53:46 -0000 Subject: [game_preservation] White Paper: Case Study Research! References: <492756AA.9040801@aarmstrong.org><492f7bbc.e203be0a.2ef2.ffff9e0e@mx.google.com> <492FF188.4050204@aarmstrong.org> Message-ID: <014e01c95160$bd09b4d0$450610ac@tg.scee.sony.co.uk> For the Amiga platform: http://hol.abime.net/hol_search.php?N_rarity=5 Cheers, Istvan ----- Original Message ----- From: Andrew Armstrong To: IGDA Game Preservation SIG Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 1:26 PM Subject: Re: [game_preservation] White Paper: Case Study Research! Neat thoughts, there's a lot of areas for this section to go actually and one is the entire loss of games, especially unreleased ones. I bet a lot of developers must take in their stride cancellations - there's a high percent which are cancelled at various stages, the worst being close to going gold. Anyone know any more examples of them? Hmm, I'm thinking it might be better to make a fictional account up for the case study. I'm not sure what'll work best myself, but lost games are certainly one major thing. Andrew Stuart Feldhamer wrote: To me the greatest loss is when a game itself becomes lost. There have been several cases in the past where a title was thought not to exist or not to have been released despite the presence of ads for the title, until a copy was eventually found. I believe the infamous Ultima: Escape from Mt. Drash fits into that category. Well what if the game had never been found and verified? Only a few copies are known to exist. What if there are titles that we think don't exist but really do and have been lost? Even if we are 99.9% sure that a game hasn't been officially released, does that mean it shouldn't be preserved? There are some games that although they were never released (to the best of our collective knowledge), may have been complete or very close to complete and were just killed at the end for financial reasons. One example that came up in discussion not that long ago was Ultima 8: The Lost Vale expansion, for which a box prototype turned up. The code may turn up at some point - it may even be among the mass of materials that the Wing Commander fans got from EA from the old Origin collection. But EA didn't really care too much about preserving that stuff, and so for now, the code is lost. Another game that was killed close to the finish line and which I personally mourned was Star Trek: The Secret of Vulcan Fury. DeForest Kelley (Dr. McCoy) even recorded voice acting for that one before he died and it presumably has been thrown in the garbage. I'm not sure how this group feels about unreleased games, but I would think that developers in particular would want to preserve them. I was reading something on Gamasutra the other day where a developer was saying that he's been in the industry for 10 years (or something like that) and only had 2 released titles, because the other 3 were cancelled after the team had put in a lot of work. Should that work be preserved, if it was at the point where the game was playable and viable? Does the decision of a marketing exec ultimately define whether or not we want to preserve a title? I realize there are intellectual property laws in play here, but ultimately we have these "guerilla preservationists" who will do what is needed despite the law, such as finding an old Atari 2600 game prototype on cartridge and then dumping it onto the net so it can be preserved. Anyway, it's late and I think I rambled a bit, but I hope I got some coherent thought across. Happy Thanksgiving. : ) Stuart From: game_preservation-bounces at igda.org [mailto:game_preservation-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Armstrong Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 7:48 PM To: IGDA Game Preservation SIG Subject: [game_preservation] White Paper: Case Study Research! Hey all you people with knowledge about videogame history. There's one part of the white paper we could do with major SIG work on as a whole - we've decided the majority of the paper content, which you can check out here (comment on it if you like): http://www.igda.org/wiki/Game_Preservation_SIG/White_Paper/Before_It%27s_Too_Late:_A_Digital_Game_Preservation_White_Paper The main part that we need information on is the Case Study: "What If We Do Nothing?" This requires either a savvy fictional account of the future where we don't preserve much of anything, or some good examples of what we have already lost (a nice twist, we reveal this has already happened...dun dun dun!). There are a few examples brought up before, but nothing much detailed for a real-life example. This means we might have to come up with a fictional account anyway, or a hybrid. So: ideas welcome! What's the worst story you can think of, or the worst actual thing that's been lost so far! It's aimed at developers remember - not historians/preservationists/archivists themselves (we already know how important it all is) - so a relevant example for developers (crediting of their works? people unable to play their games soon in the future? simply them dropping off the face of the earth in historical terms?) would be great. Thanks if anyone can help on this! Andrew PS: we still want logo ideas from an earlier thread, surely someone must have some good ideas for them too ;) there's enough of you listening to these emails I hope! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ game_preservation mailing list game_preservation at igda.org http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ game_preservation mailing list game_preservation at igda.org http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrew at aarmstrong.org Fri Nov 28 08:55:34 2008 From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 13:55:34 +0000 Subject: [game_preservation] White Paper: Case Study Research! In-Reply-To: <014e01c95160$bd09b4d0$450610ac@tg.scee.sony.co.uk> References: <492756AA.9040801@aarmstrong.org><492f7bbc.e203be0a.2ef2.ffff9e0e@mx.google.com> <492FF188.4050204@aarmstrong.org> <014e01c95160$bd09b4d0$450610ac@tg.scee.sony.co.uk> Message-ID: <492FF856.7030900@aarmstrong.org> Wow, quite a list, although I'm not sure how many total Amiga games exist that's a fair few which are MIA. Andrew Istv?n F?bi?n wrote: > For the Amiga platform: > http://hol.abime.net/hol_search.php?N_rarity=5 > > Cheers, > Istvan > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Andrew Armstrong > *To:* IGDA Game Preservation SIG > *Sent:* Friday, November 28, 2008 1:26 PM > *Subject:* Re: [game_preservation] White Paper: Case Study Research! > > Neat thoughts, there's a lot of areas for this section to go > actually and one is the entire loss of games, especially > unreleased ones. I bet a lot of developers must take in their > stride cancellations - there's a high percent which are cancelled > at various stages, the worst being close to going gold. Anyone > know any more examples of them? > > Hmm, I'm thinking it might be better to make a fictional account > up for the case study. I'm not sure what'll work best myself, but > lost games are certainly one major thing. > > Andrew > > Stuart Feldhamer wrote: >> >> To me the greatest loss is when a game itself becomes lost. There >> have been several cases in the past where a title was thought not >> to exist or not to have been released despite the presence of ads >> for the title, until a copy was eventually found. I believe the >> infamous Ultima: Escape from Mt. Drash fits into that category. >> Well what if the game had never been found and verified? Only a >> few copies are known to exist. What if there are titles that we >> think don't exist but really do and have been lost? >> >> Even if we are 99.9% sure that a game hasn't been officially >> released, does that mean it shouldn't be preserved? There are >> some games that although they were never released (to the best of >> our collective knowledge), may have been complete or very close >> to complete and were just killed at the end for financial >> reasons. One example that came up in discussion not that long ago >> was Ultima 8: The Lost Vale expansion, for which a box prototype >> turned up. The code may turn up at some point - it may even be >> among the mass of materials that the Wing Commander fans got from >> EA from the old Origin collection. But EA didn't really care too >> much about preserving that stuff, and so for now, the code is >> lost. Another game that was killed close to the finish line and >> which I personally mourned was Star Trek: The Secret of Vulcan >> Fury. DeForest Kelley (Dr. McCoy) even recorded voice acting for >> that one before he died and it presumably has been thrown in the >> garbage. >> >> I'm not sure how this group feels about unreleased games, but I >> would think that developers in particular would want to preserve >> them. I was reading something on Gamasutra the other day where a >> developer was saying that he's been in the industry for 10 years >> (or something like that) and only had 2 released titles, because >> the other 3 were cancelled after the team had put in a lot of >> work. Should that work be preserved, if it was at the point where >> the game was playable and viable? Does the decision of a >> marketing exec ultimately define whether or not we want to >> preserve a title? I realize there are intellectual property laws >> in play here, but ultimately we have these "guerilla >> preservationists" who will do what is needed despite the law, >> such as finding an old Atari 2600 game prototype on cartridge and >> then dumping it onto the net so it can be preserved. >> >> Anyway, it's late and I think I rambled a bit, but I hope I got >> some coherent thought across. Happy Thanksgiving. : ) >> >> Stuart >> >> *From:* game_preservation-bounces at igda.org >> [mailto:game_preservation-bounces at igda.org] *On Behalf Of *Andrew >> Armstrong >> *Sent:* Friday, November 21, 2008 7:48 PM >> *To:* IGDA Game Preservation SIG >> *Subject:* [game_preservation] White Paper: Case Study Research! >> >> Hey all you people with knowledge about videogame history. >> There's one part of the white paper we could do with major SIG >> work on as a whole - we've decided the majority of the paper >> content, which you can check out here (comment on it if you like): >> >> http://www.igda.org/wiki/Game_Preservation_SIG/White_Paper/Before_It%27s_Too_Late:_A_Digital_Game_Preservation_White_Paper >> >> The main part that we need information on is the Case Study: >> "What If We Do Nothing?" >> >> This requires either a savvy fictional account of the future >> where we don't preserve much of anything, or some good examples >> of what we have already lost (a nice twist, we reveal this has >> already happened.../dun dun dun!/). >> >> There are a few examples brought up >> >> before, but nothing much detailed for a real-life example. This >> means we might have to come up with a fictional account anyway, >> or a hybrid. >> >> So: ideas welcome! What's the worst story you can think of, or >> the worst actual thing that's been lost so far! >> >> It's aimed at developers remember - not >> historians/preservationists/archivists themselves (we already >> know how important it all is) - so a relevant example for >> developers (crediting of their works? people unable to play their >> games soon in the future? simply them dropping off the face of >> the earth in historical terms?) would be great. >> >> Thanks if anyone can help on this! >> >> Andrew >> >> PS: we still want logo ideas from an earlier thread, surely >> someone must have some good ideas for them too ;) there's enough >> of you listening to these emails I hope! >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> game_preservation mailing list >> game_preservation at igda.org >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From if at caps-project.org Fri Nov 28 09:06:50 2008 From: if at caps-project.org (=?iso-8859-1?B?SXN0duFuIEbhYmnhbg==?=) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 14:06:50 -0000 Subject: [game_preservation] White Paper: Case Study Research! References: <492756AA.9040801@aarmstrong.org><492f7bbc.e203be0a.2ef2.ffff9e0e@mx.google.com> <492FF188.4050204@aarmstrong.org><014e01c95160$bd09b4d0$450610ac@tg.scee.sony.co.uk> <492FF856.7030900@aarmstrong.org> Message-ID: <017501c95162$914828c0$450610ac@tg.scee.sony.co.uk> Some of those have been recovered, but most are indeed MIA and known to exist. As for the number of Amiga titles over 5000 commercial releases, some with very limited (few hundred units) prints. Istvan ----- Original Message ----- From: Andrew Armstrong To: IGDA Game Preservation SIG Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 1:55 PM Subject: Re: [game_preservation] White Paper: Case Study Research! Wow, quite a list, although I'm not sure how many total Amiga games exist that's a fair few which are MIA. Andrew Istv?n F?bi?n wrote: For the Amiga platform: http://hol.abime.net/hol_search.php?N_rarity=5 Cheers, Istvan ----- Original Message ----- From: Andrew Armstrong To: IGDA Game Preservation SIG Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 1:26 PM Subject: Re: [game_preservation] White Paper: Case Study Research! Neat thoughts, there's a lot of areas for this section to go actually and one is the entire loss of games, especially unreleased ones. I bet a lot of developers must take in their stride cancellations - there's a high percent which are cancelled at various stages, the worst being close to going gold. Anyone know any more examples of them? Hmm, I'm thinking it might be better to make a fictional account up for the case study. I'm not sure what'll work best myself, but lost games are certainly one major thing. Andrew Stuart Feldhamer wrote: To me the greatest loss is when a game itself becomes lost. There have been several cases in the past where a title was thought not to exist or not to have been released despite the presence of ads for the title, until a copy was eventually found. I believe the infamous Ultima: Escape from Mt. Drash fits into that category. Well what if the game had never been found and verified? Only a few copies are known to exist. What if there are titles that we think don't exist but really do and have been lost? Even if we are 99.9% sure that a game hasn't been officially released, does that mean it shouldn't be preserved? There are some games that although they were never released (to the best of our collective knowledge), may have been complete or very close to complete and were just killed at the end for financial reasons. One example that came up in discussion not that long ago was Ultima 8: The Lost Vale expansion, for which a box prototype turned up. The code may turn up at some point - it may even be among the mass of materials that the Wing Commander fans got from EA from the old Origin collection. But EA didn't really care too much about preserving that stuff, and so for now, the code is lost. Another game that was killed close to the finish line and which I personally mourned was Star Trek: The Secret of Vulcan Fury. DeForest Kelley (Dr. McCoy) even recorded voice acting for that one before he died and it presumably has been thrown in the garbage. I'm not sure how this group feels about unreleased games, but I would think that developers in particular would want to preserve them. I was reading something on Gamasutra the other day where a developer was saying that he's been in the industry for 10 years (or something like that) and only had 2 released titles, because the other 3 were cancelled after the team had put in a lot of work. Should that work be preserved, if it was at the point where the game was playable and viable? Does the decision of a marketing exec ultimately define whether or not we want to preserve a title? I realize there are intellectual property laws in play here, but ultimately we have these "guerilla preservationists" who will do what is needed despite the law, such as finding an old Atari 2600 game prototype on cartridge and then dumping it onto the net so it can be preserved. Anyway, it's late and I think I rambled a bit, but I hope I got some coherent thought across. Happy Thanksgiving. : ) Stuart From: game_preservation-bounces at igda.org [mailto:game_preservation-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Armstrong Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 7:48 PM To: IGDA Game Preservation SIG Subject: [game_preservation] White Paper: Case Study Research! Hey all you people with knowledge about videogame history. There's one part of the white paper we could do with major SIG work on as a whole - we've decided the majority of the paper content, which you can check out here (comment on it if you like): http://www.igda.org/wiki/Game_Preservation_SIG/White_Paper/Before_It%27s_Too_Late:_A_Digital_Game_Preservation_White_Paper The main part that we need information on is the Case Study: "What If We Do Nothing?" This requires either a savvy fictional account of the future where we don't preserve much of anything, or some good examples of what we have already lost (a nice twist, we reveal this has already happened...dun dun dun!). There are a few examples brought up before, but nothing much detailed for a real-life example. This means we might have to come up with a fictional account anyway, or a hybrid. So: ideas welcome! What's the worst story you can think of, or the worst actual thing that's been lost so far! It's aimed at developers remember - not historians/preservationists/archivists themselves (we already know how important it all is) - so a relevant example for developers (crediting of their works? people unable to play their games soon in the future? simply them dropping off the face of the earth in historical terms?) would be great. Thanks if anyone can help on this! Andrew PS: we still want logo ideas from an earlier thread, surely someone must have some good ideas for them too ;) there's enough of you listening to these emails I hope! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ game_preservation mailing list game_preservation at igda.org http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation -------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ game_preservation mailing list game_preservation at igda.org http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ game_preservation mailing list game_preservation at igda.org http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ game_preservation mailing list game_preservation at igda.org http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stuart.feldhamer at gmail.com Fri Nov 28 09:08:16 2008 From: stuart.feldhamer at gmail.com (Stuart Feldhamer) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 09:08:16 -0500 Subject: [game_preservation] White Paper: Case Study Research! In-Reply-To: <492FF188.4050204@aarmstrong.org> References: <492756AA.9040801@aarmstrong.org> <492f7bbc.e203be0a.2ef2.ffff9e0e@mx.google.com> <492FF188.4050204@aarmstrong.org> Message-ID: <492ffb50.1d1e640a.7845.ffffa87f@mx.google.com> Another high profile one at the time was the Warcraft Adventures: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warcraft_Adventures Stuart From: game_preservation-bounces at igda.org [mailto:game_preservation-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Armstrong Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 8:27 AM To: IGDA Game Preservation SIG Subject: Re: [game_preservation] White Paper: Case Study Research! Neat thoughts, there's a lot of areas for this section to go actually and one is the entire loss of games, especially unreleased ones. I bet a lot of developers must take in their stride cancellations - there's a high percent which are cancelled at various stages, the worst being close to going gold. Anyone know any more examples of them? Hmm, I'm thinking it might be better to make a fictional account up for the case study. I'm not sure what'll work best myself, but lost games are certainly one major thing. Andrew Stuart Feldhamer wrote: To me the greatest loss is when a game itself becomes lost. There have been several cases in the past where a title was thought not to exist or not to have been released despite the presence of ads for the title, until a copy was eventually found. I believe the infamous Ultima: Escape from Mt. Drash fits into that category. Well what if the game had never been found and verified? Only a few copies are known to exist. What if there are titles that we think don't exist but really do and have been lost? Even if we are 99.9% sure that a game hasn't been officially released, does that mean it shouldn't be preserved? There are some games that although they were never released (to the best of our collective knowledge), may have been complete or very close to complete and were just killed at the end for financial reasons. One example that came up in discussion not that long ago was Ultima 8: The Lost Vale expansion, for which a box prototype turned up. The code may turn up at some point - it may even be among the mass of materials that the Wing Commander fans got from EA from the old Origin collection. But EA didn't really care too much about preserving that stuff, and so for now, the code is lost. Another game that was killed close to the finish line and which I personally mourned was Star Trek: The Secret of Vulcan Fury. DeForest Kelley (Dr. McCoy) even recorded voice acting for that one before he died and it presumably has been thrown in the garbage. I'm not sure how this group feels about unreleased games, but I would think that developers in particular would want to preserve them. I was reading something on Gamasutra the other day where a developer was saying that he's been in the industry for 10 years (or something like that) and only had 2 released titles, because the other 3 were cancelled after the team had put in a lot of work. Should that work be preserved, if it was at the point where the game was playable and viable? Does the decision of a marketing exec ultimately define whether or not we want to preserve a title? I realize there are intellectual property laws in play here, but ultimately we have these "guerilla preservationists" who will do what is needed despite the law, such as finding an old Atari 2600 game prototype on cartridge and then dumping it onto the net so it can be preserved. Anyway, it's late and I think I rambled a bit, but I hope I got some coherent thought across. Happy Thanksgiving. : ) Stuart From: game_preservation-bounces at igda.org [mailto:game_preservation-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Armstrong Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 7:48 PM To: IGDA Game Preservation SIG Subject: [game_preservation] White Paper: Case Study Research! Hey all you people with knowledge about videogame history. There's one part of the white paper we could do with major SIG work on as a whole - we've decided the majority of the paper content, which you can check out here (comment on it if you like): http://www.igda.org/wiki/Game_Preservation_SIG/White_Paper/Before_It%27s_Too _Late:_A_Digital_Game_Preservation_White_Paper The main part that we need information on is the Case Study: "What If We Do Nothing?" This requires either a savvy fictional account of the future where we don't preserve much of anything, or some good examples of what we have already lost (a nice twist, we reveal this has already happened...dun dun dun!). There are a few examples brought up before, but nothing much detailed for a real-life example. This means we might have to come up with a fictional account anyway, or a hybrid. So: ideas welcome! What's the worst story you can think of, or the worst actual thing that's been lost so far! It's aimed at developers remember - not historians/preservationists/archivists themselves (we already know how important it all is) - so a relevant example for developers (crediting of their works? people unable to play their games soon in the future? simply them dropping off the face of the earth in historical terms?) would be great. Thanks if anyone can help on this! Andrew PS: we still want logo ideas from an earlier thread, surely someone must have some good ideas for them too ;) there's enough of you listening to these emails I hope! _____ _______________________________________________ game_preservation mailing list game_preservation at igda.org http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrew at aarmstrong.org Fri Nov 28 09:08:52 2008 From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 14:08:52 +0000 Subject: [game_preservation] White Paper: Case Study Research! In-Reply-To: <017501c95162$914828c0$450610ac@tg.scee.sony.co.uk> References: <492756AA.9040801@aarmstrong.org><492f7bbc.e203be0a.2ef2.ffff9e0e@mx.google.com> <492FF188.4050204@aarmstrong.org><014e01c95160$bd09b4d0$450610ac@tg.scee.sony.co.uk> <492FF856.7030900@aarmstrong.org> <017501c95162$914828c0$450610ac@tg.scee.sony.co.uk> Message-ID: <492FFB74.8010008@aarmstrong.org> Thanks for the information, should be useful - if not as a direct statement in the case study section, in the "current problems" section we have. Andrew Istv?n F?bi?n wrote: > Some of those have been recovered, but most are indeed MIA and known > to exist. > As for the number of Amiga titles over 5000 commercial releases, some > with very limited (few hundred units) prints. > > Istvan > > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Andrew Armstrong > *To:* IGDA Game Preservation SIG > *Sent:* Friday, November 28, 2008 1:55 PM > *Subject:* Re: [game_preservation] White Paper: Case Study Research! > > Wow, quite a list, although I'm not sure how many total Amiga > games exist that's a fair few which are MIA. > > Andrew > > Istv?n F?bi?n wrote: >> For the Amiga platform: >> http://hol.abime.net/hol_search.php?N_rarity=5 >> >> Cheers, >> Istvan >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> *From:* Andrew Armstrong >> *To:* IGDA Game Preservation SIG >> >> *Sent:* Friday, November 28, 2008 1:26 PM >> *Subject:* Re: [game_preservation] White Paper: Case Study >> Research! >> >> Neat thoughts, there's a lot of areas for this section to go >> actually and one is the entire loss of games, especially >> unreleased ones. I bet a lot of developers must take in their >> stride cancellations - there's a high percent which are >> cancelled at various stages, the worst being close to going >> gold. Anyone know any more examples of them? >> >> Hmm, I'm thinking it might be better to make a fictional >> account up for the case study. I'm not sure what'll work best >> myself, but lost games are certainly one major thing. >> >> Andrew >> >> Stuart Feldhamer wrote: >>> >>> To me the greatest loss is when a game itself becomes lost. >>> There have been several cases in the past where a title was >>> thought not to exist or not to have been released despite >>> the presence of ads for the title, until a copy was >>> eventually found. I believe the infamous Ultima: Escape from >>> Mt. Drash fits into that category. Well what if the game had >>> never been found and verified? Only a few copies are known >>> to exist. What if there are titles that we think don't exist >>> but really do and have been lost? >>> >>> Even if we are 99.9% sure that a game hasn't been officially >>> released, does that mean it shouldn't be preserved? There >>> are some games that although they were never released (to >>> the best of our collective knowledge), may have been >>> complete or very close to complete and were just killed at >>> the end for financial reasons. One example that came up in >>> discussion not that long ago was Ultima 8: The Lost Vale >>> expansion, for which a box prototype turned up. The code may >>> turn up at some point - it may even be among the mass of >>> materials that the Wing Commander fans got from EA from the >>> old Origin collection. But EA didn't really care too much >>> about preserving that stuff, and so for now, the code is >>> lost. Another game that was killed close to the finish line >>> and which I personally mourned was Star Trek: The Secret of >>> Vulcan Fury. DeForest Kelley (Dr. McCoy) even recorded voice >>> acting for that one before he died and it presumably has >>> been thrown in the garbage. >>> >>> I'm not sure how this group feels about unreleased games, >>> but I would think that developers in particular would want >>> to preserve them. I was reading something on Gamasutra the >>> other day where a developer was saying that he's been in the >>> industry for 10 years (or something like that) and only had >>> 2 released titles, because the other 3 were cancelled after >>> the team had put in a lot of work. Should that work be >>> preserved, if it was at the point where the game was >>> playable and viable? Does the decision of a marketing exec >>> ultimately define whether or not we want to preserve a >>> title? I realize there are intellectual property laws in >>> play here, but ultimately we have these "guerilla >>> preservationists" who will do what is needed despite the >>> law, such as finding an old Atari 2600 game prototype on >>> cartridge and then dumping it onto the net so it can be >>> preserved. >>> >>> Anyway, it's late and I think I rambled a bit, but I hope I >>> got some coherent thought across. Happy Thanksgiving. : ) >>> >>> Stuart >>> >>> *From:* game_preservation-bounces at igda.org >>> [mailto:game_preservation-bounces at igda.org] *On Behalf Of >>> *Andrew Armstrong >>> *Sent:* Friday, November 21, 2008 7:48 PM >>> *To:* IGDA Game Preservation SIG >>> *Subject:* [game_preservation] White Paper: Case Study Research! >>> >>> Hey all you people with knowledge about videogame history. >>> There's one part of the white paper we could do with major >>> SIG work on as a whole - we've decided the majority of the >>> paper content, which you can check out here (comment on it >>> if you like): >>> >>> http://www.igda.org/wiki/Game_Preservation_SIG/White_Paper/Before_It%27s_Too_Late:_A_Digital_Game_Preservation_White_Paper >>> >>> The main part that we need information on is the Case Study: >>> "What If We Do Nothing?" >>> >>> This requires either a savvy fictional account of the future >>> where we don't preserve much of anything, or some good >>> examples of what we have already lost (a nice twist, we >>> reveal this has already happened.../dun dun dun!/). >>> >>> There are a few examples brought up >>> >>> before, but nothing much detailed for a real-life example. >>> This means we might have to come up with a fictional account >>> anyway, or a hybrid. >>> >>> So: ideas welcome! What's the worst story you can think of, >>> or the worst actual thing that's been lost so far! >>> >>> It's aimed at developers remember - not >>> historians/preservationists/archivists themselves (we >>> already know how important it all is) - so a relevant >>> example for developers (crediting of their works? people >>> unable to play their games soon in the future? simply them >>> dropping off the face of the earth in historical terms?) >>> would be great. >>> >>> Thanks if anyone can help on this! >>> >>> Andrew >>> >>> PS: we still want logo ideas from an earlier thread, surely >>> someone must have some good ideas for them too ;) there's >>> enough of you listening to these emails I hope! >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> game_preservation mailing list >>> game_preservation at igda.org >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation >>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> _______________________________________________ >> game_preservation mailing list >> game_preservation at igda.org >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> game_preservation mailing list >> game_preservation at igda.org >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stuart.feldhamer at gmail.com Fri Nov 28 09:14:41 2008 From: stuart.feldhamer at gmail.com (Stuart Feldhamer) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 09:14:41 -0500 Subject: [game_preservation] White Paper: Case Study Research! In-Reply-To: <492FFB74.8010008@aarmstrong.org> References: <492756AA.9040801@aarmstrong.org><492f7bbc.e203be0a.2ef2.ffff9e0e@mx.google.com> <492FF188.4050204@aarmstrong.org><014e01c95160$bd09b4d0$450610ac@tg.scee.sony.co.uk> <492FF856.7030900@aarmstrong.org> <017501c95162$914828c0$450610ac@tg.scee.sony.co.uk> <492FFB74.8010008@aarmstrong.org> Message-ID: <492ffcd1.04a1260a.034a.0166@mx.google.com> A few of the games on that list were released for other platforms. Good list though. It also reminds me of a few other games for PC that were reviewed but never released. One example is ?Hollywood Monsters? by Pendulo Studios (http://www.justadventure.com/reviews/HollywoodMonsters/HollywoodMonsters.sh tm). It was only ever released in Spanish, but an English copy exists. Stuart From: game_preservation-bounces at igda.org [mailto:game_preservation-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Armstrong Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 9:09 AM To: IGDA Game Preservation SIG Subject: Re: [game_preservation] White Paper: Case Study Research! Thanks for the information, should be useful - if not as a direct statement in the case study section, in the "current problems" section we have. Andrew Istv?n F?bi?n wrote: Some of those have been recovered, but most are indeed MIA and known to exist. As for the number of Amiga titles over 5000 commercial releases, some with very limited (few hundred units) prints. Istvan ----- Original Message ----- From: Andrew Armstrong To: IGDA Game Preservation SIG Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 1:55 PM Subject: Re: [game_preservation] White Paper: Case Study Research! Wow, quite a list, although I'm not sure how many total Amiga games exist that's a fair few which are MIA. Andrew Istv?n F?bi?n wrote: For the Amiga platform: http://hol.abime.net/hol_search.php?N_rarity=5 Cheers, Istvan ----- Original Message ----- From: Andrew Armstrong To: IGDA Game Preservation SIG Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 1:26 PM Subject: Re: [game_preservation] White Paper: Case Study Research! Neat thoughts, there's a lot of areas for this section to go actually and one is the entire loss of games, especially unreleased ones. I bet a lot of developers must take in their stride cancellations - there's a high percent which are cancelled at various stages, the worst being close to going gold. Anyone know any more examples of them? Hmm, I'm thinking it might be better to make a fictional account up for the case study. I'm not sure what'll work best myself, but lost games are certainly one major thing. Andrew Stuart Feldhamer wrote: To me the greatest loss is when a game itself becomes lost. There have been several cases in the past where a title was thought not to exist or not to have been released despite the presence of ads for the title, until a copy was eventually found. I believe the infamous Ultima: Escape from Mt. Drash fits into that category. Well what if the game had never been found and verified? Only a few copies are known to exist. What if there are titles that we think don?t exist but really do and have been lost? Even if we are 99.9% sure that a game hasn?t been officially released, does that mean it shouldn?t be preserved? There are some games that although they were never released (to the best of our collective knowledge), may have been complete or very close to complete and were just killed at the end for financial reasons. One example that came up in discussion not that long ago was Ultima 8: The Lost Vale expansion, for which a box prototype turned up. The code may turn up at some point - it may even be among the mass of materials that the Wing Commander fans got from EA from the old Origin collection. But EA didn?t really care too much about preserving that stuff, and so for now, the code is lost. Another game that was killed close to the finish line and which I personally mourned was Star Trek: The Secret of Vulcan Fury. DeForest Kelley (Dr. McCoy) even recorded voice acting for that one before he died and it presumably has been thrown in the garbage. I?m not sure how this group feels about unreleased games, but I would think that developers in particular would want to preserve them. I was reading something on Gamasutra the other day where a developer was saying that he?s been in the industry for 10 years (or something like that) and only had 2 released titles, because the other 3 were cancelled after the team had put in a lot of work. Should that work be preserved, if it was at the point where the game was playable and viable? Does the decision of a marketing exec ultimately define whether or not we want to preserve a title? I realize there are intellectual property laws in play here, but ultimately we have these ?guerilla preservationists? who will do what is needed despite the law, such as finding an old Atari 2600 game prototype on cartridge and then dumping it onto the net so it can be preserved. Anyway, it?s late and I think I rambled a bit, but I hope I got some coherent thought across. Happy Thanksgiving. : ) Stuart From: game_preservation-bounces at igda.org [mailto:game_preservation-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Armstrong Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 7:48 PM To: IGDA Game Preservation SIG Subject: [game_preservation] White Paper: Case Study Research! Hey all you people with knowledge about videogame history. There's one part of the white paper we could do with major SIG work on as a whole - we've decided the majority of the paper content, which you can check out here (comment on it if you like): http://www.igda.org/wiki/Game_Preservation_SIG/White_Paper/Before_It%27s_Too _Late:_A_Digital_Game_Preservation_White_Paper The main part that we need information on is the Case Study: "What If We Do Nothing?" This requires either a savvy fictional account of the future where we don't preserve much of anything, or some good examples of what we have already lost (a nice twist, we reveal this has already happened...dun dun dun!). There are a few examples brought up before, but nothing much detailed for a real-life example. This means we might have to come up with a fictional account anyway, or a hybrid. So: ideas welcome! What's the worst story you can think of, or the worst actual thing that's been lost so far! It's aimed at developers remember - not historians/preservationists/archivists themselves (we already know how important it all is) - so a relevant example for developers (crediting of their works? people unable to play their games soon in the future? simply them dropping off the face of the earth in historical terms?) would be great. Thanks if anyone can help on this! Andrew PS: we still want logo ideas from an earlier thread, surely someone must have some good ideas for them too ;) there's enough of you listening to these emails I hope! _____ _______________________________________________ game_preservation mailing list game_preservation at igda.org http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation _____ _______________________________________________ game_preservation mailing list game_preservation at igda.org http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation _____ _______________________________________________ game_preservation mailing list game_preservation at igda.org http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation _____ _______________________________________________ game_preservation mailing list game_preservation at igda.org http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation _____ _______________________________________________ game_preservation mailing list game_preservation at igda.org http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From if at caps-project.org Fri Nov 28 09:26:48 2008 From: if at caps-project.org (=?iso-8859-1?B?SXN0duFuIEbhYmnhbg==?=) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 14:26:48 -0000 Subject: [game_preservation] White Paper: Case Study Research! References: <492756AA.9040801@aarmstrong.org><492f7bbc.e203be0a.2ef2.ffff9e0e@mx.google.com> <492FF188.4050204@aarmstrong.org><014e01c95160$bd09b4d0$450610ac@tg.scee.sony.co.uk> <492FF856.7030900@aarmstrong.org> <017501c95162$914828c0$450610ac@tg.scee.sony.co.uk><492FFB74.8010008@aarmstrong.org> <492ffcd1.04a1260a.034a.0166@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <01c201c95165$5b063510$450610ac@tg.scee.sony.co.uk> A major resource: http://gtwportal.retro-net.de/ See "Available platforms..." link collection on that page. Istvan ----- Original Message ----- From: Stuart Feldhamer To: 'IGDA Game Preservation SIG' Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 2:14 PM Subject: Re: [game_preservation] White Paper: Case Study Research! A few of the games on that list were released for other platforms. Good list though. It also reminds me of a few other games for PC that were reviewed but never released. One example is "Hollywood Monsters" by Pendulo Studios (http://www.justadventure.com/reviews/HollywoodMonsters/HollywoodMonsters.shtm). It was only ever released in Spanish, but an English copy exists. Stuart From: game_preservation-bounces at igda.org [mailto:game_preservation-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Armstrong Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 9:09 AM To: IGDA Game Preservation SIG Subject: Re: [game_preservation] White Paper: Case Study Research! Thanks for the information, should be useful - if not as a direct statement in the case study section, in the "current problems" section we have. Andrew Istv?n F?bi?n wrote: Some of those have been recovered, but most are indeed MIA and known to exist. As for the number of Amiga titles over 5000 commercial releases, some with very limited (few hundred units) prints. Istvan ----- Original Message ----- From: Andrew Armstrong To: IGDA Game Preservation SIG Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 1:55 PM Subject: Re: [game_preservation] White Paper: Case Study Research! Wow, quite a list, although I'm not sure how many total Amiga games exist that's a fair few which are MIA. Andrew Istv?n F?bi?n wrote: For the Amiga platform: http://hol.abime.net/hol_search.php?N_rarity=5 Cheers, Istvan ----- Original Message ----- From: Andrew Armstrong To: IGDA Game Preservation SIG Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 1:26 PM Subject: Re: [game_preservation] White Paper: Case Study Research! Neat thoughts, there's a lot of areas for this section to go actually and one is the entire loss of games, especially unreleased ones. I bet a lot of developers must take in their stride cancellations - there's a high percent which are cancelled at various stages, the worst being close to going gold. Anyone know any more examples of them? Hmm, I'm thinking it might be better to make a fictional account up for the case study. I'm not sure what'll work best myself, but lost games are certainly one major thing. Andrew Stuart Feldhamer wrote: To me the greatest loss is when a game itself becomes lost. There have been several cases in the past where a title was thought not to exist or not to have been released despite the presence of ads for the title, until a copy was eventually found. I believe the infamous Ultima: Escape from Mt. Drash fits into that category. Well what if the game had never been found and verified? Only a few copies are known to exist. What if there are titles that we think don't exist but really do and have been lost? Even if we are 99.9% sure that a game hasn't been officially released, does that mean it shouldn't be preserved? There are some games that although they were never released (to the best of our collective knowledge), may have been complete or very close to complete and were just killed at the end for financial reasons. One example that came up in discussion not that long ago was Ultima 8: The Lost Vale expansion, for which a box prototype turned up. The code may turn up at some point - it may even be among the mass of materials that the Wing Commander fans got from EA from the old Origin collection. But EA didn't really care too much about preserving that stuff, and so for now, the code is lost. Another game that was killed close to the finish line and which I personally mourned was Star Trek: The Secret of Vulcan Fury. DeForest Kelley (Dr. McCoy) even recorded voice acting for that one before he died and it presumably has been thrown in the garbage. I'm not sure how this group feels about unreleased games, but I would think that developers in particular would want to preserve them. I was reading something on Gamasutra the other day where a developer was saying that he's been in the industry for 10 years (or something like that) and only had 2 released titles, because the other 3 were cancelled after the team had put in a lot of work. Should that work be preserved, if it was at the point where the game was playable and viable? Does the decision of a marketing exec ultimately define whether or not we want to preserve a title? I realize there are intellectual property laws in play here, but ultimately we have these "guerilla preservationists" who will do what is needed despite the law, such as finding an old Atari 2600 game prototype on cartridge and then dumping it onto the net so it can be preserved. Anyway, it's late and I think I rambled a bit, but I hope I got some coherent thought across. Happy Thanksgiving. : ) Stuart From: game_preservation-bounces at igda.org [mailto:game_preservation-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Armstrong Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 7:48 PM To: IGDA Game Preservation SIG Subject: [game_preservation] White Paper: Case Study Research! Hey all you people with knowledge about videogame history. There's one part of the white paper we could do with major SIG work on as a whole - we've decided the majority of the paper content, which you can check out here (comment on it if you like): http://www.igda.org/wiki/Game_Preservation_SIG/White_Paper/Before_It%27s_Too_Late:_A_Digital_Game_Preservation_White_Paper The main part that we need information on is the Case Study: "What If We Do Nothing?" This requires either a savvy fictional account of the future where we don't preserve much of anything, or some good examples of what we have already lost (a nice twist, we reveal this has already happened...dun dun dun!). There are a few examples brought up before, but nothing much detailed for a real-life example. This means we might have to come up with a fictional account anyway, or a hybrid. So: ideas welcome! What's the worst story you can think of, or the worst actual thing that's been lost so far! It's aimed at developers remember - not historians/preservationists/archivists themselves (we already know how important it all is) - so a relevant example for developers (crediting of their works? people unable to play their games soon in the future? simply them dropping off the face of the earth in historical terms?) would be great. Thanks if anyone can help on this! Andrew PS: we still want logo ideas from an earlier thread, surely someone must have some good ideas for them too ;) there's enough of you listening to these emails I hope! -------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________game_preservation mailing listgame_preservation at igda.orghttp://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation -------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ game_preservation mailing list game_preservation at igda.org http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________game_preservation mailing listgame_preservation at igda.orghttp://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ game_preservation mailing list game_preservation at igda.org http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________game_preservation mailing listgame_preservation at igda.orghttp://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ game_preservation mailing list game_preservation at igda.org http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From evilcowclone at gmail.com Fri Nov 28 09:59:14 2008 From: evilcowclone at gmail.com (Devin Monnens) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 07:59:14 -0700 Subject: [game_preservation] White Paper: Case Study Research! In-Reply-To: <01c201c95165$5b063510$450610ac@tg.scee.sony.co.uk> References: <492756AA.9040801@aarmstrong.org> <492f7bbc.e203be0a.2ef2.ffff9e0e@mx.google.com> <492FF188.4050204@aarmstrong.org> <014e01c95160$bd09b4d0$450610ac@tg.scee.sony.co.uk> <492FF856.7030900@aarmstrong.org> <017501c95162$914828c0$450610ac@tg.scee.sony.co.uk> <492FFB74.8010008@aarmstrong.org> <492ffcd1.04a1260a.034a.0166@mx.google.com> <01c201c95165$5b063510$450610ac@tg.scee.sony.co.uk> Message-ID: Unreleased games sounds like a question of scope as well. This isn't something we normally think of when we think 'videogame preservation' and unfortunately, it's incredibly difficult to ensure preservation of these (I remember an IGN interview that stated Rare has a VERY uncensored version of Conker in their vault that NOBODY will ever see). This all came back to a database of known released and unreleased games (though some companies don't want ANYBODY knowing about this stuff). Unreleased games also find their way to the underground collecting market (there was a big article in the Escapist on this). Resident Evil 1.5 is one good example, but I haven't heard any reports of leaked copies of Castlevania Resurrection... One of the most famous cases of unreleased games later found was 'EarthBound 0' which was mentioned at one of the GDC roundtables. I don't think anyone's found a fabled beta cartridge of EarthBound for the 64DD though. And then another good example was Military Battlezone, which was thought lost and perhaps not to even exist (?) until some guy found in his barn. That was chronicled in From Sun Tzu to XBox I believe. Maybe we want to illustrate that the case for 'lost games' isn't to a point where many things are actually being lost wholesale, but is one where we're dangling over the edge like How The Grinch Stole Christmas. Only a few things have fallen into the abyss like the red ornament, but it's on such unstable ground that a whole lot more could fall in. We could equate the Grinch to many characters in the drama, and given the overbearing weight of bit rot, DRMA, etc, it may very well take the strength of ten Grinches (plus two) to keep the rest from falling in. -- The sleep of Reason produces monsters. "Until next time..." Captain Commando -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stuart.feldhamer at gmail.com Fri Nov 28 10:03:52 2008 From: stuart.feldhamer at gmail.com (Stuart Feldhamer) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 10:03:52 -0500 Subject: [game_preservation] White Paper: Case Study Research! In-Reply-To: References: <492756AA.9040801@aarmstrong.org> <492f7bbc.e203be0a.2ef2.ffff9e0e@mx.google.com> <492FF188.4050204@aarmstrong.org> <014e01c95160$bd09b4d0$450610ac@tg.scee.sony.co.uk> <492FF856.7030900@aarmstrong.org> <017501c95162$914828c0$450610ac@tg.scee.sony.co.uk> <492FFB74.8010008@aarmstrong.org> <492ffcd1.04a1260a.034a.0166@mx.google.com> <01c201c95165$5b063510$450610ac@tg.scee.sony.co.uk> Message-ID: <4930085a.0609c00a.4e8f.29f2@mx.google.com> I agree, it is a question of scope. That's why I was curious to hear others' thoughts on this. Should be not be preserving unreleased games? If a game was unreleased, do we want to "officially" pretend that it doesn't exist? Stuart From: game_preservation-bounces at igda.org [mailto:game_preservation-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Devin Monnens Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 9:59 AM To: IGDA Game Preservation SIG Subject: Re: [game_preservation] White Paper: Case Study Research! Unreleased games sounds like a question of scope as well. This isn't something we normally think of when we think 'videogame preservation' and unfortunately, it's incredibly difficult to ensure preservation of these (I remember an IGN interview that stated Rare has a VERY uncensored version of Conker in their vault that NOBODY will ever see). This all came back to a database of known released and unreleased games (though some companies don't want ANYBODY knowing about this stuff). Unreleased games also find their way to the underground collecting market (there was a big article in the Escapist on this). Resident Evil 1.5 is one good example, but I haven't heard any reports of leaked copies of Castlevania Resurrection... One of the most famous cases of unreleased games later found was 'EarthBound 0' which was mentioned at one of the GDC roundtables. I don't think anyone's found a fabled beta cartridge of EarthBound for the 64DD though. And then another good example was Military Battlezone, which was thought lost and perhaps not to even exist (?) until some guy found in his barn. That was chronicled in From Sun Tzu to XBox I believe. Maybe we want to illustrate that the case for 'lost games' isn't to a point where many things are actually being lost wholesale, but is one where we're dangling over the edge like How The Grinch Stole Christmas. Only a few things have fallen into the abyss like the red ornament, but it's on such unstable ground that a whole lot more could fall in. We could equate the Grinch to many characters in the drama, and given the overbearing weight of bit rot, DRMA, etc, it may very well take the strength of ten Grinches (plus two) to keep the rest from falling in. -- The sleep of Reason produces monsters. "Until next time..." Captain Commando -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrew at aarmstrong.org Fri Nov 28 10:09:20 2008 From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 15:09:20 +0000 Subject: [game_preservation] White Paper: Case Study Research! In-Reply-To: <4930085a.0609c00a.4e8f.29f2@mx.google.com> References: <492756AA.9040801@aarmstrong.org> <492f7bbc.e203be0a.2ef2.ffff9e0e@mx.google.com> <492FF188.4050204@aarmstrong.org> <014e01c95160$bd09b4d0$450610ac@tg.scee.sony.co.uk> <492FF856.7030900@aarmstrong.org> <017501c95162$914828c0$450610ac@tg.scee.sony.co.uk> <492FFB74.8010008@aarmstrong.org> <492ffcd1.04a1260a.034a.0166@mx.google.com> <01c201c95165$5b063510$450610ac@tg.scee.sony.co.uk> <4930085a.0609c00a.4e8f.29f2@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <493009A0.4000307@aarmstrong.org> If someone comes forwards and adds to an archive, it's preservable, but since the entire point of them being labelled "unreleased" is that they usually can't be preserved for that very reason - no one has a copy! With the current very incomplete state of archives at the moment, I'd say efforts are better put towards preserving more obtainable items, especially "lost" items which have been released but are of a limited amount or hard to find. Andrew Stuart Feldhamer wrote: > > I agree, it is a question of scope. That's why I was curious to hear > others' thoughts on this. Should be not be preserving unreleased > games? If a game was unreleased, do we want to "officially" pretend > that it doesn't exist? > > > > Stuart > > > > *From:* game_preservation-bounces at igda.org > [mailto:game_preservation-bounces at igda.org] *On Behalf Of *Devin Monnens > *Sent:* Friday, November 28, 2008 9:59 AM > *To:* IGDA Game Preservation SIG > *Subject:* Re: [game_preservation] White Paper: Case Study Research! > > > > Unreleased games sounds like a question of scope as well. This isn't > something we normally think of when we think 'videogame preservation' > and unfortunately, it's incredibly difficult to ensure preservation of > these (I remember an IGN interview that stated Rare has a VERY > uncensored version of Conker in their vault that NOBODY will ever > see). This all came back to a database of known released and > unreleased games (though some companies don't want ANYBODY knowing > about this stuff). > > > > Unreleased games also find their way to the underground collecting > market (there was a big article in the Escapist on this). Resident > Evil 1.5 is one good example, but I haven't heard any reports of > leaked copies of Castlevania Resurrection... One of the most famous > cases of unreleased games later found was 'EarthBound 0' which was > mentioned at one of the GDC roundtables. I don't think anyone's found > a fabled beta cartridge of EarthBound for the 64DD though. And then > another good example was Military Battlezone, which was thought lost > and perhaps not to even exist (?) until some guy found in his barn. > That was chronicled in From Sun Tzu to XBox I believe. > > > > Maybe we want to illustrate that the case for 'lost games' isn't to a > point where many things are actually being lost wholesale, but is one > where we're dangling over the edge like How The Grinch Stole > Christmas. Only a few things have fallen into the abyss like the red > ornament, but it's on such unstable ground that a whole lot more could > fall in. We could equate the Grinch to many characters in the drama, > and given the overbearing weight of bit rot, DRMA, etc, it may very > well take the strength of ten Grinches (plus two) to keep the rest > from falling in. > > -- > The sleep of Reason produces monsters. > > "Until next time..." > Captain Commando > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From evilcowclone at gmail.com Fri Nov 28 10:11:21 2008 From: evilcowclone at gmail.com (Devin Monnens) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 08:11:21 -0700 Subject: [game_preservation] White Paper: Case Study Research! In-Reply-To: <4930085a.0609c00a.4e8f.29f2@mx.google.com> References: <492756AA.9040801@aarmstrong.org> <492FF188.4050204@aarmstrong.org> <014e01c95160$bd09b4d0$450610ac@tg.scee.sony.co.uk> <492FF856.7030900@aarmstrong.org> <017501c95162$914828c0$450610ac@tg.scee.sony.co.uk> <492FFB74.8010008@aarmstrong.org> <492ffcd1.04a1260a.034a.0166@mx.google.com> <01c201c95165$5b063510$450610ac@tg.scee.sony.co.uk> <4930085a.0609c00a.4e8f.29f2@mx.google.com> Message-ID: I think this information is important. Unreleased manuscripts of famous authors show up every once in awhile, and those get big publicity. They're also X-raying early versions of paintings and covered-up paintings. Obviously an unfinished game is not a complete work, and sometimes it may just not be playable. But sometimes it can be contextually important, and certainly important to designers (Koji Igarashi's team played Castlevania Resurrection as well as the N64 Castlevanias and one would assume a lot of other 3D action games when designing Lament of Innocence). > If a game was unreleased, do we want to "officially" pretend that it > doesn't exist? > Unfortunately, sometimes you HAVE to, for legal reasons... -- The sleep of Reason produces monsters. "Until next time..." Captain Commando -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From evilcowclone at gmail.com Fri Nov 28 10:15:55 2008 From: evilcowclone at gmail.com (Devin Monnens) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 08:15:55 -0700 Subject: [game_preservation] White Paper: Case Study Research! In-Reply-To: <493009A0.4000307@aarmstrong.org> References: <492756AA.9040801@aarmstrong.org> <014e01c95160$bd09b4d0$450610ac@tg.scee.sony.co.uk> <492FF856.7030900@aarmstrong.org> <017501c95162$914828c0$450610ac@tg.scee.sony.co.uk> <492FFB74.8010008@aarmstrong.org> <492ffcd1.04a1260a.034a.0166@mx.google.com> <01c201c95165$5b063510$450610ac@tg.scee.sony.co.uk> <4930085a.0609c00a.4e8f.29f2@mx.google.com> <493009A0.4000307@aarmstrong.org> Message-ID: Agreed. There are many things that are ready to tumble in or have already (some are stuck on ledges of the chasm as 'lost' games, but a skilled climber can find them). I made a short list of the ones ready to tumble in one of the appendices of my paper - http://www.deserthat.com/Preservation.pdf I also noticed it actually starts with the wrong title page, but the content is all there :-) > With the current very incomplete state of archives at the moment, I'd say > efforts are better put towards preserving more obtainable items, especially > "lost" items which have been released but are of a limited amount or hard to > find. > > Andrew > > Stuart Feldhamer wrote: > > I agree, it is a question of scope. That's why I was curious to hear > others' thoughts on this. Should be not be preserving unreleased games? If a > game was unreleased, do we want to "officially" pretend that it doesn't > exist? > > > > Stuart > > > > *From:* game_preservation-bounces at igda.org [ > mailto:game_preservation-bounces at igda.org] > *On Behalf Of *Devin Monnens > *Sent:* Friday, November 28, 2008 9:59 AM > *To:* IGDA Game Preservation SIG > *Subject:* Re: [game_preservation] White Paper: Case Study Research! > > > > Unreleased games sounds like a question of scope as well. This isn't > something we normally think of when we think 'videogame preservation' and > unfortunately, it's incredibly difficult to ensure preservation of these (I > remember an IGN interview that stated Rare has a VERY uncensored version of > Conker in their vault that NOBODY will ever see). This all came back to a > database of known released and unreleased games (though some companies don't > want ANYBODY knowing about this stuff). > > > > Unreleased games also find their way to the underground collecting market > (there was a big article in the Escapist on this). Resident Evil 1.5 is one > good example, but I haven't heard any reports of leaked copies of > Castlevania Resurrection... One of the most famous cases of unreleased games > later found was 'EarthBound 0' which was mentioned at one of the GDC > roundtables. I don't think anyone's found a fabled beta cartridge of > EarthBound for the 64DD though. And then another good example was Military > Battlezone, which was thought lost and perhaps not to even exist (?) until > some guy found in his barn. That was chronicled in From Sun Tzu to XBox I > believe. > > > > Maybe we want to illustrate that the case for 'lost games' isn't to a point > where many things are actually being lost wholesale, but is one where we're > dangling over the edge like How The Grinch Stole Christmas. Only a few > things have fallen into the abyss like the red ornament, but it's on such > unstable ground that a whole lot more could fall in. We could equate the > Grinch to many characters in the drama, and given the overbearing weight of > bit rot, DRMA, etc, it may very well take the strength of ten Grinches (plus > two) to keep the rest from falling in. > > -- > The sleep of Reason produces monsters. > > "Until next time..." > Captain Commando > > ------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing listgame_preservation at igda.orghttp://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > > -- The sleep of Reason produces monsters. "Until next time..." Captain Commando -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stuart.feldhamer at gmail.com Fri Nov 28 10:28:11 2008 From: stuart.feldhamer at gmail.com (Stuart Feldhamer) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 10:28:11 -0500 Subject: [game_preservation] White Paper: Case Study Research! In-Reply-To: References: <492756AA.9040801@aarmstrong.org> <014e01c95160$bd09b4d0$450610ac@tg.scee.sony.co.uk> <492FF856.7030900@aarmstrong.org> <017501c95162$914828c0$450610ac@tg.scee.sony.co.uk> <492FFB74.8010008@aarmstrong.org> <492ffcd1.04a1260a.034a.0166@mx.google.com> <01c201c95165$5b063510$450610ac@tg.scee.sony.co.uk> <4930085a.0609c00a.4e8f.29f2@mx.google.com> <493009A0.4000307@aarmstrong.org> Message-ID: <49300e0c.09035a0a.4513.ffffc4e7@mx.google.com> Wow - excellent list. Independent games, as a category, particularly struck me. I wasn't thinking in that direction but of course you're right that they are particularly susceptible to being lost. Stuart From: game_preservation-bounces at igda.org [mailto:game_preservation-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Devin Monnens Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 10:16 AM To: IGDA Game Preservation SIG Subject: Re: [game_preservation] White Paper: Case Study Research! Agreed. There are many things that are ready to tumble in or have already (some are stuck on ledges of the chasm as 'lost' games, but a skilled climber can find them). I made a short list of the ones ready to tumble in one of the appendices of my paper - http://www.deserthat.com/Preservation.pdf I also noticed it actually starts with the wrong title page, but the content is all there :-) With the current very incomplete state of archives at the moment, I'd say efforts are better put towards preserving more obtainable items, especially "lost" items which have been released but are of a limited amount or hard to find. Andrew Stuart Feldhamer wrote: I agree, it is a question of scope. That's why I was curious to hear others' thoughts on this. Should be not be preserving unreleased games? If a game was unreleased, do we want to "officially" pretend that it doesn't exist? Stuart From: game_preservation-bounces at igda.org [mailto:game_preservation-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Devin Monnens Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 9:59 AM To: IGDA Game Preservation SIG Subject: Re: [game_preservation] White Paper: Case Study Research! Unreleased games sounds like a question of scope as well. This isn't something we normally think of when we think 'videogame preservation' and unfortunately, it's incredibly difficult to ensure preservation of these (I remember an IGN interview that stated Rare has a VERY uncensored version of Conker in their vault that NOBODY will ever see). This all came back to a database of known released and unreleased games (though some companies don't want ANYBODY knowing about this stuff). Unreleased games also find their way to the underground collecting market (there was a big article in the Escapist on this). Resident Evil 1.5 is one good example, but I haven't heard any reports of leaked copies of Castlevania Resurrection... One of the most famous cases of unreleased games later found was 'EarthBound 0' which was mentioned at one of the GDC roundtables. I don't think anyone's found a fabled beta cartridge of EarthBound for the 64DD though. And then another good example was Military Battlezone, which was thought lost and perhaps not to even exist (?) until some guy found in his barn. That was chronicled in From Sun Tzu to XBox I believe. Maybe we want to illustrate that the case for 'lost games' isn't to a point where many things are actually being lost wholesale, but is one where we're dangling over the edge like How The Grinch Stole Christmas. Only a few things have fallen into the abyss like the red ornament, but it's on such unstable ground that a whole lot more could fall in. We could equate the Grinch to many characters in the drama, and given the overbearing weight of bit rot, DRMA, etc, it may very well take the strength of ten Grinches (plus two) to keep the rest from falling in. -- The sleep of Reason produces monsters. "Until next time..." Captain Commando _____ _______________________________________________ game_preservation mailing list game_preservation at igda.org http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation _______________________________________________ game_preservation mailing list game_preservation at igda.org http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation -- The sleep of Reason produces monsters. "Until next time..." Captain Commando -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: