From lange at digitalgamearchive.org  Wed Apr  1 02:41:16 2009
From: lange at digitalgamearchive.org (Andreas Lange)
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 08:41:16 +0200
Subject: [game_preservation] Online DRM
In-Reply-To: <op.urnqlmr1fmh8gn@sherpa.umd.edu>
References: <49CBAD70.7090400@digitalgamearchive.org>	<49CBDD10.6090103@stanford.edu>
	<49CFC27E.1040407@aarmstrong.org>	<b96706b70903291309p2f4c842ex710d802b187c803c@mail.gmail.com>	<49D0E0B1.6070202@digitalgamearchive.org>	<f2d80c160903300815l1cdc7286ie0c2ee4970994a92@mail.gmail.com>	<49D1C50F.7030203@digitalgamearchive.org>
	<op.urnqlmr1fmh8gn@sherpa.umd.edu>
Message-ID: <49D30C8C.2050905@digitalgamearchive.org>

Rachel "Sheepy" Donahue schrieb:
> The exemptions are on a 3-year cycle. More info can be found here:
> http://www.copyright.gov/1201/


Here:
http://www.copyright.gov/1201/2006/index.html
it's looks like, that the exemption is still valid (until Oct, 27. 2009)?
Andreas

> 
> 
> On Tue, 31 Mar 2009 03:23:59 -0400, Andreas Lange 
> <lange at digitalgamearchive.org> wrote:
> 
>> Dear Rachel,
>> thanks for the info, which I didn't know. When did that happen? Does 
>> anyone know why? And what is the schedule for the next round of DMCA 
>> evaluation after the hearings will have started in May?
>> While the US law is not directly relevant for us in Germany, I could 
>> use this DMCA exeption as a good reference for our local law making 
>> process.
>> Andreas
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
> 
> 


From andrew at aarmstrong.org  Wed Apr  1 11:25:27 2009
From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong)
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 16:25:27 +0100
Subject: [game_preservation] Online DRM
In-Reply-To: <49D30C8C.2050905@digitalgamearchive.org>
References: <49CBAD70.7090400@digitalgamearchive.org>	<49CBDD10.6090103@stanford.edu>	<49CFC27E.1040407@aarmstrong.org>	<b96706b70903291309p2f4c842ex710d802b187c803c@mail.gmail.com>	<49D0E0B1.6070202@digitalgamearchive.org>	<f2d80c160903300815l1cdc7286ie0c2ee4970994a92@mail.gmail.com>	<49D1C50F.7030203@digitalgamearchive.org>	<op.urnqlmr1fmh8gn@sherpa.umd.edu>
	<49D30C8C.2050905@digitalgamearchive.org>
Message-ID: <49D38767.8010408@aarmstrong.org>

Certainly point 2 below looks relevant, I'll add it to the groups resources.

> 2. Computer programs and video games distributed in formats that have 
> become obsolete and that require the original media or hardware as a 
> condition of access, when circumvention is accomplished for the 
> purpose of preservation or archival reproduction of published digital 
> works by a library or archive. A format shall be considered obsolete 
> if the machine or system necessary to render perceptible a work stored 
> in that format is no longer manufactured or is no longer reasonably 
> available in the commercial marketplace.


Andrew

Andreas Lange wrote:
> Rachel "Sheepy" Donahue schrieb:
>> The exemptions are on a 3-year cycle. More info can be found here:
>> http://www.copyright.gov/1201/
>
>
> Here:
> http://www.copyright.gov/1201/2006/index.html
> it's looks like, that the exemption is still valid (until Oct, 27. 2009)?
> Andreas
>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 31 Mar 2009 03:23:59 -0400, Andreas Lange 
>> <lange at digitalgamearchive.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Rachel,
>>> thanks for the info, which I didn't know. When did that happen? Does 
>>> anyone know why? And what is the schedule for the next round of DMCA 
>>> evaluation after the hearings will have started in May?
>>> While the US law is not directly relevant for us in Germany, I could 
>>> use this DMCA exeption as a good reference for our local law making 
>>> process.
>>> Andreas
>> _______________________________________________
>> game_preservation mailing list
>> game_preservation at igda.org
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation

From donahrm at gmail.com  Wed Apr  1 11:30:41 2009
From: donahrm at gmail.com (Rachel "Sheepy" Donahue)
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 11:30:41 -0400
Subject: [game_preservation] Online DRM
In-Reply-To: <49D38767.8010408@aarmstrong.org>
References: <49CBAD70.7090400@digitalgamearchive.org>
	<49CBDD10.6090103@stanford.edu> <49CFC27E.1040407@aarmstrong.org>
	<b96706b70903291309p2f4c842ex710d802b187c803c@mail.gmail.com>
	<49D0E0B1.6070202@digitalgamearchive.org>
	<f2d80c160903300815l1cdc7286ie0c2ee4970994a92@mail.gmail.com>
	<49D1C50F.7030203@digitalgamearchive.org>
	<op.urnqlmr1fmh8gn@sherpa.umd.edu>
	<49D30C8C.2050905@digitalgamearchive.org>
	<49D38767.8010408@aarmstrong.org>
Message-ID: <op.urpr1fpzfmh8gn@sherpa.westell.com>

I -believe- that was a 2006 exemption that no one re-proposed, but I'm not  
certain.

On Wed, 01 Apr 2009 11:25:27 -0400, Andrew Armstrong  
<andrew at aarmstrong.org> wrote:

> Certainly point 2 below looks relevant, I'll add it to the groups  
> resources.
>
>> 2. Computer programs and video games distributed in formats that have  
>> become obsolete and that require the original media or hardware as a  
>> condition of access, when circumvention is accomplished for the purpose  
>> of preservation or archival reproduction of published digital works by  
>> a library or archive. A format shall be considered obsolete if the  
>> machine or system necessary to render perceptible a work stored in that  
>> format is no longer manufactured or is no longer reasonably available  
>> in the commercial marketplace.
>
>
> Andrew
>
> Andreas Lange wrote:
>> Rachel "Sheepy" Donahue schrieb:
>>> The exemptions are on a 3-year cycle. More info can be found here:
>>> http://www.copyright.gov/1201/
>>
>>
>> Here:
>> http://www.copyright.gov/1201/2006/index.html
>> it's looks like, that the exemption is still valid (until Oct, 27.  
>> 2009)?
>> Andreas
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, 31 Mar 2009 03:23:59 -0400, Andreas Lange  
>>> <lange at digitalgamearchive.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear Rachel,
>>>> thanks for the info, which I didn't know. When did that happen? Does  
>>>> anyone know why? And what is the schedule for the next round of DMCA  
>>>> evaluation after the hearings will have started in May?
>>>> While the US law is not directly relevant for us in Germany, I could  
>>>> use this DMCA exeption as a good reference for our local law making  
>>>> process.
>>>> Andreas
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> game_preservation mailing list
>>> game_preservation at igda.org
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> game_preservation mailing list
>> game_preservation at igda.org
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation



-- 
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

From andrew at aarmstrong.org  Wed Apr  1 11:44:32 2009
From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong)
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 16:44:32 +0100
Subject: [game_preservation] Online DRM
In-Reply-To: <op.urpr1fpzfmh8gn@sherpa.westell.com>
References: <49CBAD70.7090400@digitalgamearchive.org>	<49CBDD10.6090103@stanford.edu>
	<49CFC27E.1040407@aarmstrong.org>	<b96706b70903291309p2f4c842ex710d802b187c803c@mail.gmail.com>	<49D0E0B1.6070202@digitalgamearchive.org>	<f2d80c160903300815l1cdc7286ie0c2ee4970994a92@mail.gmail.com>	<49D1C50F.7030203@digitalgamearchive.org>	<op.urnqlmr1fmh8gn@sherpa.umd.edu>	<49D30C8C.2050905@digitalgamearchive.org>	<49D38767.8010408@aarmstrong.org>
	<op.urpr1fpzfmh8gn@sherpa.westell.com>
Message-ID: <49D38BE0.4060908@aarmstrong.org>

Hmm, looks like it. Still going to add it as information :)

Shame, everything will be illegal come October! :( Might need someone to 
write up the information regarding this sometime.

Andrew

Rachel "Sheepy" Donahue wrote:
> I -believe- that was a 2006 exemption that no one re-proposed, but I'm 
> not certain.
>
> On Wed, 01 Apr 2009 11:25:27 -0400, Andrew Armstrong 
> <andrew at aarmstrong.org> wrote:
>
>> Certainly point 2 below looks relevant, I'll add it to the groups 
>> resources.
>>
>>> 2. Computer programs and video games distributed in formats that 
>>> have become obsolete and that require the original media or hardware 
>>> as a condition of access, when circumvention is accomplished for the 
>>> purpose of preservation or archival reproduction of published 
>>> digital works by a library or archive. A format shall be considered 
>>> obsolete if the machine or system necessary to render perceptible a 
>>> work stored in that format is no longer manufactured or is no longer 
>>> reasonably available in the commercial marketplace.
>>
>>
>> Andrew
>>
>> Andreas Lange wrote:
>>> Rachel "Sheepy" Donahue schrieb:
>>>> The exemptions are on a 3-year cycle. More info can be found here:
>>>> http://www.copyright.gov/1201/
>>>
>>>
>>> Here:
>>> http://www.copyright.gov/1201/2006/index.html
>>> it's looks like, that the exemption is still valid (until Oct, 27. 
>>> 2009)?
>>> Andreas
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, 31 Mar 2009 03:23:59 -0400, Andreas Lange 
>>>> <lange at digitalgamearchive.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Dear Rachel,
>>>>> thanks for the info, which I didn't know. When did that happen? 
>>>>> Does anyone know why? And what is the schedule for the next round 
>>>>> of DMCA evaluation after the hearings will have started in May?
>>>>> While the US law is not directly relevant for us in Germany, I 
>>>>> could use this DMCA exeption as a good reference for our local law 
>>>>> making process.
>>>>> Andreas
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> game_preservation mailing list
>>>> game_preservation at igda.org
>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> game_preservation mailing list
>>> game_preservation at igda.org
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>> _______________________________________________
>> game_preservation mailing list
>> game_preservation at igda.org
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>
>
>

From andrew at aarmstrong.org  Wed Apr  1 17:49:01 2009
From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong)
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 22:49:01 +0100
Subject: [game_preservation] Physical Archives collapsing (Example in
	Cologne)
Message-ID: <49D3E14D.5070504@aarmstrong.org>

A sad example (one I missed from early March - I don't check out too 
much "archive" news in my RSS feeds) from Cologne, where their 
Historical Archive of Cologne collapsed!

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,611311,00.html

I guess relevant to us is the fact any fire, earthquake, collapse or 
other disaster could spell doom for a physical collection of artefacts, 
games and so forth. Makes it important to get an off site digital copy 
or scan if possible! Shame it just takes so much work (time + money) to 
do scans, and DRM (and maybe to a lesser extent, copyright laws) 
sometimes prevent digital copies of digital media.

Perhaps identifying this as one area for best practices or some form of 
archival standards is a good idea :) (Digital copies off site is another 
important one of course). Has anyone got any other examples except for 
classic ones (the Great Library of Alexandria for one) of archives or 
libraries having disasters and massive losses? I can't remember any off 
the top of my head, but for research into this area it'd be good to know 
some.

Andrew

From andrew at aarmstrong.org  Wed Apr  1 18:40:47 2009
From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong)
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 23:40:47 +0100
Subject: [game_preservation] Before It's Too Late: A Digital
 Game	Preservation White Paper Released
In-Reply-To: <49C8834F.6080509@aarmstrong.org>
References: <49C8834F.6080509@aarmstrong.org>
Message-ID: <49D3ED6F.4090209@aarmstrong.org>

A new version has been released, the sites have been updated (all links 
are the same), this has included in the acknowledgements alterations to 
reflect who helped with the project :)

I'll be trying to publicise this through the IGDA newsletter and any 
other place on the web that might put it up as news. I'll contact 
developer orientated ones first, but really to test the waters I'll 
likely try every major site to see what they think. I think players can 
read this as much as developers can - it is of course saying why what 
they are playing is important for history! If anyone can help with this 
(emails, sites I might overlook, etc) - feel free to contact me off 
list. I just wish we had a new IGDA site already - the old one (thus the 
links on it) will disappear soon, so I can't just link them to the news 
item, but it'll have to be the wiki page.

The next white paper will be on the topic of "Best Practices for 
Preserving Digital Games" (my WIP title which is not a URL yet :) ) as 
described by Henry at the end of this years white paper:
> The next step is laying out the best methods for preserving digital 
> games and related archives, letting developers know how their 
> companies can help during the production process, and providing 
> working practices for both archives and companies. While museums and 
> archives can hold some material, much of it will be retained by 
> companies and individuals who should know the best way to store 
> physical materials and software to keep these materials safe and 
> secure for the future. Therefore, our next white paper will focus on 
> how you can preserve what you own. This will benefit companies that 
> hold copies of all their games and documentation materials and need 
> help in managing them for long-term preservation.
Depending on how much activity we see, this might or might not be done 
by next years GDC (which is earlier in March). Signups, ideas and offers 
to help are welcome now - Henry will head up the project, so feel free 
to email him or myself or add yourself to the brainstorm pages:

http://www.igda.org/wiki/Game_Preservation_SIG/White_Paper/2009_brainstorm

Andrew

Andrew Armstrong wrote:
> The 2008 white paper is now complete, titled Before It's Too Late: A 
> Digital Game Preservation White Paper:
>
> http://www.igda.org/wiki/Game_Preservation_SIG/White_Paper/Before_It%27s_Too_Late:_A_Digital_Game_Preservation_White_Paper 
>
>
> You can download it on that page, and find the link to Lulu for print 
> copies. Make sure to spread this far and wide, feedback is welcome 
> too, especially if we can improve anything for the next white paper.
>
> As I said in the news post:
>
> This is aimed at saying exactly why game history needs preserving, 
> what needs preserving, and what you can do to help preserve game 
> history! Spread this to anyone who is a developer or who is interested 
> in videogame history.
>
> Many thanks to Henry Lowood for leading the project and the 
> contributors Andrew Armstrong, Devin Monnens, Zach Vowell, Judd 
> Ruggill, Ken McAllister, Rachel Donahue, Jon-Paul Dyson, Stuart 
> Feldhamer and Jo Barwick.
>
> Look out for our next white paper looking at the best practices for 
> game preservation coming in 2010!
>
> Andrew
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation

From lowood at stanford.edu  Wed Apr  1 19:20:43 2009
From: lowood at stanford.edu (Henry Lowood)
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 16:20:43 -0700
Subject: [game_preservation] Online DRM
In-Reply-To: <op.urpr1fpzfmh8gn@sherpa.westell.com>
References: <49CBAD70.7090400@digitalgamearchive.org>	<49CBDD10.6090103@stanford.edu>
	<49CFC27E.1040407@aarmstrong.org>	<b96706b70903291309p2f4c842ex710d802b187c803c@mail.gmail.com>	<49D0E0B1.6070202@digitalgamearchive.org>	<f2d80c160903300815l1cdc7286ie0c2ee4970994a92@mail.gmail.com>	<49D1C50F.7030203@digitalgamearchive.org>	<op.urnqlmr1fmh8gn@sherpa.umd.edu>	<49D30C8C.2050905@digitalgamearchive.org>	<49D38767.8010408@aarmstrong.org>
	<op.urpr1fpzfmh8gn@sherpa.westell.com>
Message-ID: <49D3F6CB.6070207@stanford.edu>

Correct.  The original ruling was in 2000, then the renewal was in 2003 
and 2006.  But this three-year cycle is really impossible to maintain, 
because someone needs to track the issue and organize the effort.  
Inevitably, the interested parties lose track of the issue.  It's crazy 
to have such a short-term renewal cycle.

Henry

Rachel "Sheepy" Donahue wrote:
> I -believe- that was a 2006 exemption that no one re-proposed, but I'm 
> not certain.
>
> On Wed, 01 Apr 2009 11:25:27 -0400, Andrew Armstrong 
> <andrew at aarmstrong.org> wrote:
>
>> Certainly point 2 below looks relevant, I'll add it to the groups 
>> resources.
>>
>>> 2. Computer programs and video games distributed in formats that 
>>> have become obsolete and that require the original media or hardware 
>>> as a condition of access, when circumvention is accomplished for the 
>>> purpose of preservation or archival reproduction of published 
>>> digital works by a library or archive. A format shall be considered 
>>> obsolete if the machine or system necessary to render perceptible a 
>>> work stored in that format is no longer manufactured or is no longer 
>>> reasonably available in the commercial marketplace.
>>
>>
>> Andrew
>>
>> Andreas Lange wrote:
>>> Rachel "Sheepy" Donahue schrieb:
>>>> The exemptions are on a 3-year cycle. More info can be found here:
>>>> http://www.copyright.gov/1201/
>>>
>>>
>>> Here:
>>> http://www.copyright.gov/1201/2006/index.html
>>> it's looks like, that the exemption is still valid (until Oct, 27. 
>>> 2009)?
>>> Andreas
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, 31 Mar 2009 03:23:59 -0400, Andreas Lange 
>>>> <lange at digitalgamearchive.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Dear Rachel,
>>>>> thanks for the info, which I didn't know. When did that happen? 
>>>>> Does anyone know why? And what is the schedule for the next round 
>>>>> of DMCA evaluation after the hearings will have started in May?
>>>>> While the US law is not directly relevant for us in Germany, I 
>>>>> could use this DMCA exeption as a good reference for our local law 
>>>>> making process.
>>>>> Andreas
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> game_preservation mailing list
>>>> game_preservation at igda.org
>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> game_preservation mailing list
>>> game_preservation at igda.org
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>> _______________________________________________
>> game_preservation mailing list
>> game_preservation at igda.org
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>
>
>

-- 
Henry Lowood, Ph.D.
Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections;
 Film & Media Collections
HRG, Green Library, 557 Escondido Mall
Stanford University Libraries
Stanford CA 94305-6004
650-723-4602; lowood at stanford.edu; http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood 
<http://www.stanford.edu/%7Elowood>

From evilcowclone at gmail.com  Wed Apr  1 23:58:14 2009
From: evilcowclone at gmail.com (Devin Monnens)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 20:58:14 -0700
Subject: [game_preservation] Online DRM
In-Reply-To: <49D3F6CB.6070207@stanford.edu>
References: <49CBAD70.7090400@digitalgamearchive.org>
	<b96706b70903291309p2f4c842ex710d802b187c803c@mail.gmail.com>
	<49D0E0B1.6070202@digitalgamearchive.org>
	<f2d80c160903300815l1cdc7286ie0c2ee4970994a92@mail.gmail.com>
	<49D1C50F.7030203@digitalgamearchive.org>
	<op.urnqlmr1fmh8gn@sherpa.umd.edu>
	<49D30C8C.2050905@digitalgamearchive.org>
	<49D38767.8010408@aarmstrong.org>
	<op.urpr1fpzfmh8gn@sherpa.westell.com> <49D3F6CB.6070207@stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <b96706b70904012058g55b5fa82qfbc18d8bc5cfba30@mail.gmail.com>

So this also means that any archival work that was done becomes illegal
after the exemption ends? So if somebody did a digital backup of a game
under this exhemption, they'd have to delete it? That doesn't sound like a
good system...

-Devin

On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 4:20 PM, Henry Lowood <lowood at stanford.edu> wrote:

> Correct.  The original ruling was in 2000, then the renewal was in 2003 and
> 2006.  But this three-year cycle is really impossible to maintain, because
> someone needs to track the issue and organize the effort.  Inevitably, the
> interested parties lose track of the issue.  It's crazy to have such a
> short-term renewal cycle.
>
> Henry
>
> Rachel "Sheepy" Donahue wrote:
>
>> I -believe- that was a 2006 exemption that no one re-proposed, but I'm not
>> certain.
>>
>> On Wed, 01 Apr 2009 11:25:27 -0400, Andrew Armstrong <
>> andrew at aarmstrong.org> wrote:
>>
>>  Certainly point 2 below looks relevant, I'll add it to the groups
>>> resources.
>>>
>>>  2. Computer programs and video games distributed in formats that have
>>>> become obsolete and that require the original media or hardware as a
>>>> condition of access, when circumvention is accomplished for the purpose of
>>>> preservation or archival reproduction of published digital works by a
>>>> library or archive. A format shall be considered obsolete if the machine or
>>>> system necessary to render perceptible a work stored in that format is no
>>>> longer manufactured or is no longer reasonably available in the commercial
>>>> marketplace.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Andrew
>>>
>>> Andreas Lange wrote:
>>>
>>>> Rachel "Sheepy" Donahue schrieb:
>>>>
>>>>> The exemptions are on a 3-year cycle. More info can be found here:
>>>>> http://www.copyright.gov/1201/
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Here:
>>>> http://www.copyright.gov/1201/2006/index.html
>>>> it's looks like, that the exemption is still valid (until Oct, 27.
>>>> 2009)?
>>>> Andreas
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, 31 Mar 2009 03:23:59 -0400, Andreas Lange <
>>>>> lange at digitalgamearchive.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>  Dear Rachel,
>>>>>> thanks for the info, which I didn't know. When did that happen? Does
>>>>>> anyone know why? And what is the schedule for the next round of DMCA
>>>>>> evaluation after the hearings will have started in May?
>>>>>> While the US law is not directly relevant for us in Germany, I could
>>>>>> use this DMCA exeption as a good reference for our local law making process.
>>>>>> Andreas
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> game_preservation mailing list
>>>>> game_preservation at igda.org
>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> game_preservation mailing list
>>>> game_preservation at igda.org
>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> game_preservation mailing list
>>> game_preservation at igda.org
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> --
> Henry Lowood, Ph.D.
> Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections;
> Film & Media Collections
> HRG, Green Library, 557 Escondido Mall
> Stanford University Libraries
> Stanford CA 94305-6004
> 650-723-4602; lowood at stanford.edu; http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood<http://www.stanford.edu/%7Elowood><
> http://www.stanford.edu/%7Elowood>
>
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>



-- 
The sleep of Reason produces monsters.

"Until next time..."
Captain Commando
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From lowood at stanford.edu  Thu Apr  2 00:16:20 2009
From: lowood at stanford.edu (Henry Lowood)
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 21:16:20 -0700
Subject: [game_preservation] Online DRM
In-Reply-To: <b96706b70904012058g55b5fa82qfbc18d8bc5cfba30@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49CBAD70.7090400@digitalgamearchive.org>	<b96706b70903291309p2f4c842ex710d802b187c803c@mail.gmail.com>	<49D0E0B1.6070202@digitalgamearchive.org>	<f2d80c160903300815l1cdc7286ie0c2ee4970994a92@mail.gmail.com>	<49D1C50F.7030203@digitalgamearchive.org>	<op.urnqlmr1fmh8gn@sherpa.umd.edu>	<49D30C8C.2050905@digitalgamearchive.org>	<49D38767.8010408@aarmstrong.org>	<op.urpr1fpzfmh8gn@sherpa.westell.com>
	<49D3F6CB.6070207@stanford.edu>
	<b96706b70904012058g55b5fa82qfbc18d8bc5cfba30@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49D43C14.7010406@stanford.edu>

Devin,

No, the act of copying does not become illegal, I am pretty sure of 
that.   All the exemption provided was the right to make copies.  The 
copies are made now, they do not have to be deleted.

That said, I can only agree with you: DMCA + Bono provides us with a 
broken system.

Henry

Devin Monnens wrote:
> So this also means that any archival work that was done becomes 
> illegal after the exemption ends? So if somebody did a digital backup 
> of a game under this exhemption, they'd have to delete it? That 
> doesn't sound like a good system...
>
> -Devin
>
> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 4:20 PM, Henry Lowood <lowood at stanford.edu 
> <mailto:lowood at stanford.edu>> wrote:
>
>     Correct.  The original ruling was in 2000, then the renewal was in
>     2003 and 2006.  But this three-year cycle is really impossible to
>     maintain, because someone needs to track the issue and organize
>     the effort.  Inevitably, the interested parties lose track of the
>     issue.  It's crazy to have such a short-term renewal cycle.
>
>
>     Henry
>
>     Rachel "Sheepy" Donahue wrote:
>
>         I -believe- that was a 2006 exemption that no one re-proposed,
>         but I'm not certain.
>
>         On Wed, 01 Apr 2009 11:25:27 -0400, Andrew Armstrong
>         <andrew at aarmstrong.org <mailto:andrew at aarmstrong.org>> wrote:
>
>             Certainly point 2 below looks relevant, I'll add it to the
>             groups resources.
>
>                 2. Computer programs and video games distributed in
>                 formats that have become obsolete and that require the
>                 original media or hardware as a condition of access,
>                 when circumvention is accomplished for the purpose of
>                 preservation or archival reproduction of published
>                 digital works by a library or archive. A format shall
>                 be considered obsolete if the machine or system
>                 necessary to render perceptible a work stored in that
>                 format is no longer manufactured or is no longer
>                 reasonably available in the commercial marketplace.
>
>
>
>             Andrew
>
>             Andreas Lange wrote:
>
>                 Rachel "Sheepy" Donahue schrieb:
>
>                     The exemptions are on a 3-year cycle. More info
>                     can be found here:
>                     http://www.copyright.gov/1201/
>
>
>
>                 Here:
>                 http://www.copyright.gov/1201/2006/index.html
>                 it's looks like, that the exemption is still valid
>                 (until Oct, 27. 2009)?
>                 Andreas
>
>
>
>                     On Tue, 31 Mar 2009 03:23:59 -0400, Andreas Lange
>                     <lange at digitalgamearchive.org
>                     <mailto:lange at digitalgamearchive.org>> wrote:
>
>                         Dear Rachel,
>                         thanks for the info, which I didn't know. When
>                         did that happen? Does anyone know why? And
>                         what is the schedule for the next round of
>                         DMCA evaluation after the hearings will have
>                         started in May?
>                         While the US law is not directly relevant for
>                         us in Germany, I could use this DMCA exeption
>                         as a good reference for our local law making
>                         process.
>                         Andreas
>
>                     _______________________________________________
>                     game_preservation mailing list
>                     game_preservation at igda.org
>                     <mailto:game_preservation at igda.org>
>                     http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>
>
>
>                 _______________________________________________
>                 game_preservation mailing list
>                 game_preservation at igda.org
>                 <mailto:game_preservation at igda.org>
>                 http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>
>             _______________________________________________
>             game_preservation mailing list
>             game_preservation at igda.org <mailto:game_preservation at igda.org>
>             http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>
>
>
>
>
>     -- 
>     Henry Lowood, Ph.D.
>
>     Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections;
>     Film & Media Collections
>     HRG, Green Library, 557 Escondido Mall
>     Stanford University Libraries
>     Stanford CA 94305-6004
>     650-723-4602; lowood at stanford.edu <mailto:lowood at stanford.edu>;
>     http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood
>     <http://www.stanford.edu/%7Elowood>
>     <http://www.stanford.edu/%7Elowood>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     game_preservation mailing list
>     game_preservation at igda.org <mailto:game_preservation at igda.org>
>     http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
>
> "Until next time..."
> Captain Commando
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>   

-- 
Henry Lowood
Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections;
     Film & Media Collections
HRG, Green Library
557 Escondido Mall, Stanford University Libraries
Stanford CA 94305-6004 USA
http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood
lowood at stanford.edu; 650-723-4602


From lange at digitalgamearchive.org  Thu Apr  2 06:15:30 2009
From: lange at digitalgamearchive.org (Andreas Lange)
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 12:15:30 +0200
Subject: [game_preservation] Online DRM
In-Reply-To: <49D3F6CB.6070207@stanford.edu>
References: <49CBAD70.7090400@digitalgamearchive.org>	<49CBDD10.6090103@stanford.edu>	<49CFC27E.1040407@aarmstrong.org>	<b96706b70903291309p2f4c842ex710d802b187c803c@mail.gmail.com>	<49D0E0B1.6070202@digitalgamearchive.org>	<f2d80c160903300815l1cdc7286ie0c2ee4970994a92@mail.gmail.com>	<49D1C50F.7030203@digitalgamearchive.org>	<op.urnqlmr1fmh8gn@sherpa.umd.edu>	<49D30C8C.2050905@digitalgamearchive.org>	<49D38767.8010408@aarmstrong.org>	<op.urpr1fpzfmh8gn@sherpa.westell.com>
	<49D3F6CB.6070207@stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <49D49042.8020808@digitalgamearchive.org>

Henry Lowood schrieb:
> Correct.  The original ruling was in 2000, then the renewal was in 2003 
> and 2006.  But this three-year cycle is really impossible to maintain, 
> because someone needs to track the issue and organize the effort.  
> Inevitably, the interested parties lose track of the issue.  It's crazy 
> to have such a short-term renewal cycle.

A question to the procedure: Is it necessary, to propose that an 
exemption should be keept every three years again after it was granted 
first? Or does it remain automaticly until someone proposes that it 
should be canceled?

Andreas

> 
> Henry
> 
> Rachel "Sheepy" Donahue wrote:
>> I -believe- that was a 2006 exemption that no one re-proposed, but I'm 
>> not certain.
>>
>> On Wed, 01 Apr 2009 11:25:27 -0400, Andrew Armstrong 
>> <andrew at aarmstrong.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Certainly point 2 below looks relevant, I'll add it to the groups 
>>> resources.
>>>
>>>> 2. Computer programs and video games distributed in formats that 
>>>> have become obsolete and that require the original media or hardware 
>>>> as a condition of access, when circumvention is accomplished for the 
>>>> purpose of preservation or archival reproduction of published 
>>>> digital works by a library or archive. A format shall be considered 
>>>> obsolete if the machine or system necessary to render perceptible a 
>>>> work stored in that format is no longer manufactured or is no longer 
>>>> reasonably available in the commercial marketplace.
>>>
>>>
>>> Andrew
>>>
>>> Andreas Lange wrote:
>>>> Rachel "Sheepy" Donahue schrieb:
>>>>> The exemptions are on a 3-year cycle. More info can be found here:
>>>>> http://www.copyright.gov/1201/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Here:
>>>> http://www.copyright.gov/1201/2006/index.html
>>>> it's looks like, that the exemption is still valid (until Oct, 27. 
>>>> 2009)?
>>>> Andreas
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, 31 Mar 2009 03:23:59 -0400, Andreas Lange 
>>>>> <lange at digitalgamearchive.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear Rachel,
>>>>>> thanks for the info, which I didn't know. When did that happen? 
>>>>>> Does anyone know why? And what is the schedule for the next round 
>>>>>> of DMCA evaluation after the hearings will have started in May?
>>>>>> While the US law is not directly relevant for us in Germany, I 
>>>>>> could use this DMCA exeption as a good reference for our local law 
>>>>>> making process.
>>>>>> Andreas
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> game_preservation mailing list
>>>>> game_preservation at igda.org
>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> game_preservation mailing list
>>>> game_preservation at igda.org
>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> game_preservation mailing list
>>> game_preservation at igda.org
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>>
>>
>>
> 


From lange at digitalgamearchive.org  Thu Apr  2 06:19:41 2009
From: lange at digitalgamearchive.org (Andreas Lange)
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 12:19:41 +0200
Subject: [game_preservation] Physical Archives collapsing (Example in
 Cologne)
In-Reply-To: <49D3E14D.5070504@aarmstrong.org>
References: <49D3E14D.5070504@aarmstrong.org>
Message-ID: <49D4913D.9010006@digitalgamearchive.org>

Dear Andrew,
indeed this cologne desaster caused some people to promote digital 
preservation. An other recent example is a fire in one of the most 
important libraries in germany 
(http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,2831391,00.html) in 2004.
Andreas


Andrew Armstrong schrieb:
> A sad example (one I missed from early March - I don't check out too 
> much "archive" news in my RSS feeds) from Cologne, where their 
> Historical Archive of Cologne collapsed!
> 
> http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,611311,00.html
> 
> I guess relevant to us is the fact any fire, earthquake, collapse or 
> other disaster could spell doom for a physical collection of artefacts, 
> games and so forth. Makes it important to get an off site digital copy 
> or scan if possible! Shame it just takes so much work (time + money) to 
> do scans, and DRM (and maybe to a lesser extent, copyright laws) 
> sometimes prevent digital copies of digital media.
> 
> Perhaps identifying this as one area for best practices or some form of 
> archival standards is a good idea :) (Digital copies off site is another 
> important one of course). Has anyone got any other examples except for 
> classic ones (the Great Library of Alexandria for one) of archives or 
> libraries having disasters and massive losses? I can't remember any off 
> the top of my head, but for research into this area it'd be good to know 
> some.
> 
> Andrew
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
> 
> 


From evilcowclone at gmail.com  Thu Apr  2 11:58:25 2009
From: evilcowclone at gmail.com (Devin Monnens)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 09:58:25 -0600
Subject: [game_preservation] Best game of all time?
Message-ID: <b96706b70904020858rdae9505u32b0161a49cd60df@mail.gmail.com>

The latest IGDA newsletter (yeah, sent a few weeks ago, but GDC makes
everyone busy!) mentioned a contest to pick the most influential game of all
time. I personally don't think more than a fraction of the games on the list
here are worth mentioning as influential, and some (Wolfenstein and Doom)
seem to be the exact same thing.

http://www.focalpress.com/giveaway.aspx?ekfrm=6770

Anyway, I find it odd that IGDA mentions this but nothing with game
preservation. This is clearly going to be more a popularity contest than
anything academic, but I'm kind of interested in what people on this list
think. I've got half a mind to just say 'Spacewar!' and be done with it -
after all, Spacewar! influenced Nolan Bushnell to get into games. Other than
that, I'd say Ralph Baer's Pong game (though the videogames would have come
around later if Baer and Bushnell hadn't gotten there first).

In terms of widespread influence though, Super Mario Bros. might be a better
pick because it sort of distills a lot of ideas about design and inspires
game players to become game makers. A game that is influential should do two
things in my mind: inspire someone to create his or her own videogames and
to influence the design of other games by allowing other designers to learn
from it. It's kind of hard to track both of these, and it's ridiculous to
suppose that one single game can be responsible for everything. Of course, a
third option is games that create meaning or that act as art, but these have
been so recent (Ico and Super Columbine Massacre RPG) that they haven't yet
had a chance to influence the industry. So this is more historical than
anything else.

Anyway, that's probably too much analysis into what ultimately ammounts to
just a popularity contest :)

-Devin Monnens

-- 
The sleep of Reason produces monsters.

"Until next time..."
Captain Commando
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From donahrm at gmail.com  Thu Apr  2 13:04:17 2009
From: donahrm at gmail.com (Rachel "Sheepy" Donahue)
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 13:04:17 -0400
Subject: [game_preservation] Online DRM
In-Reply-To: <49D49042.8020808@digitalgamearchive.org>
References: <49CBAD70.7090400@digitalgamearchive.org>
	<49CBDD10.6090103@stanford.edu> <49CFC27E.1040407@aarmstrong.org>
	<b96706b70903291309p2f4c842ex710d802b187c803c@mail.gmail.com>
	<49D0E0B1.6070202@digitalgamearchive.org>
	<f2d80c160903300815l1cdc7286ie0c2ee4970994a92@mail.gmail.com>
	<49D1C50F.7030203@digitalgamearchive.org>
	<op.urnqlmr1fmh8gn@sherpa.umd.edu>
	<49D30C8C.2050905@digitalgamearchive.org>
	<49D38767.8010408@aarmstrong.org>
	<op.urpr1fpzfmh8gn@sherpa.westell.com> <49D3F6CB.6070207@stanford.edu>
	<49D49042.8020808@digitalgamearchive.org>
Message-ID: <op.urrq1fpyfmh8gn@sherpa.westell.com>


> A question to the procedure: Is it necessary, to propose that an  
> exemption should be keept every three years again after it was granted  
> first? Or does it remain automaticly until someone proposes that it  
> should be canceled?
>
> Andreas
>

I looked at this a bit more in depth in the fall, and looked at the list  
of proposals up for review, and this one was not included. I am fairly  
sure that someone has to sponsor it for it to remain.

From andrew at aarmstrong.org  Thu Apr  2 13:24:31 2009
From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong)
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 18:24:31 +0100
Subject: [game_preservation] Best game of all time?
In-Reply-To: <b96706b70904020858rdae9505u32b0161a49cd60df@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b96706b70904020858rdae9505u32b0161a49cd60df@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49D4F4CF.1080702@aarmstrong.org>

It is a popularity contest, but even an incomplete one - Bill and Matt's 
book has more entries then that! I'm pretty sure I am not going to even 
attempt to do anything about this since doing so would be stupid - 99% 
of people will pick an entry from the list and be done with it, and of 
the other 1%, I suspect not many would go for a classic vintage game in 
any case. Pretty useless in both cases anyway!

Castle Woflenstein is referencing the one from 1981 btw - a tad 
different to a 3d shooter, although Wolfenstein 3d honestly was probably 
a lot more influential in general then Doom (or rather, perhaps coupled 
with Doom), despite the close release dates.

Andrew

Devin Monnens wrote:
> The latest IGDA newsletter (yeah, sent a few weeks ago, but GDC makes 
> everyone busy!) mentioned a contest to pick the most influential game 
> of all time. I personally don't think more than a fraction of the 
> games on the list here are worth mentioning as influential, and some 
> (Wolfenstein and Doom) seem to be the exact same thing.
>  
> http://www.focalpress.com/giveaway.aspx?ekfrm=6770
>  
> Anyway, I find it odd that IGDA mentions this but nothing with game 
> preservation. This is clearly going to be more a popularity contest 
> than anything academic, but I'm kind of interested in what people on 
> this list think. I've got half a mind to just say 'Spacewar!' and be 
> done with it - after all, Spacewar! influenced Nolan Bushnell to get 
> into games. Other than that, I'd say Ralph Baer's Pong game (though 
> the videogames would have come around later if Baer and Bushnell 
> hadn't gotten there first).
>  
> In terms of widespread influence though, Super Mario Bros. might be a 
> better pick because it sort of distills a lot of ideas about design 
> and inspires game players to become game makers. A game that is 
> influential should do two things in my mind: inspire someone to create 
> his or her own videogames and to influence the design of other games 
> by allowing other designers to learn from it. It's kind of hard to 
> track both of these, and it's ridiculous to suppose that one single 
> game can be responsible for everything. Of course, a third option is 
> games that create meaning or that act as art, but these have been so 
> recent (Ico and Super Columbine Massacre RPG) that they haven't yet 
> had a chance to influence the industry. So this is more historical 
> than anything else.
>  
> Anyway, that's probably too much analysis into what ultimately 
> ammounts to just a popularity contest :)
>  
> -Devin Monnens
>
> -- 
> The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
>
> "Until next time..."
> Captain Commando
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>   
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From andrew at aarmstrong.org  Thu Apr  2 13:28:28 2009
From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong)
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 18:28:28 +0100
Subject: [game_preservation] Online DRM
In-Reply-To: <op.urrq1fpyfmh8gn@sherpa.westell.com>
References: <49CBAD70.7090400@digitalgamearchive.org>	<49CBDD10.6090103@stanford.edu>
	<49CFC27E.1040407@aarmstrong.org>	<b96706b70903291309p2f4c842ex710d802b187c803c@mail.gmail.com>	<49D0E0B1.6070202@digitalgamearchive.org>	<f2d80c160903300815l1cdc7286ie0c2ee4970994a92@mail.gmail.com>	<49D1C50F.7030203@digitalgamearchive.org>	<op.urnqlmr1fmh8gn@sherpa.umd.edu>	<49D30C8C.2050905@digitalgamearchive.org>	<49D38767.8010408@aarmstrong.org>	<op.urpr1fpzfmh8gn@sherpa.westell.com>
	<49D3F6CB.6070207@stanford.edu>	<49D49042.8020808@digitalgamearchive.org>
	<op.urrq1fpyfmh8gn@sherpa.westell.com>
Message-ID: <49D4F5BC.5020609@aarmstrong.org>

That, along with Henry's comments, really does make it seem like the 
most sucky system ever - what I'd half expect from laws of course.

Either we'll have to look to propose something for next year (I presume 
it runs yearly) somehow if anyone is interested, else the Americans on 
this list might be having legal troubles with some of their efforts, or 
just, well, let it all lapse!

No idea about how to coordinate it however. I'm not American, good luck 
letting a UK citizen into the USA law books and procedures ;) It'd have 
to be sorted, I guess, between the digital archives, libraries and the 
Library of Congress.

Andrew

Rachel "Sheepy" Donahue wrote:
>
>> A question to the procedure: Is it necessary, to propose that an 
>> exemption should be keept every three years again after it was 
>> granted first? Or does it remain automaticly until someone proposes 
>> that it should be canceled?
>>
>> Andreas
>>
>
> I looked at this a bit more in depth in the fall, and looked at the 
> list of proposals up for review, and this one was not included. I am 
> fairly sure that someone has to sponsor it for it to remain.
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation

From andrew at aarmstrong.org  Thu Apr  2 14:46:24 2009
From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong)
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 19:46:24 +0100
Subject: [game_preservation] GDC 2009 Report, Roundtable Notes
Message-ID: <49D50800.8080500@aarmstrong.org>

Hey all,

I got around to doing my notes from the GDC 2009 meeting and roundtable, 
feel free to check them out here:

http://www.igda.org/wiki/Game_Preservation_SIG/SIG_Resources/2009_Roundtable

If anyone sees a point they want to discuss, or want more details on 
something specific I can help in this thread. Overall some good 
discussion on the legal and ethical issues surrounding preserving 
developer's materials, well worth a quick read if you are interested in 
that area. We really ran out of time too.

As for the new projects/work, I'll likely write up some briefs for and 
put up wiki pages before putting out a call for volunteers to help, but 
feel free to say if you are interested! We really need developer input 
into a lot of items, and even if you can't put yourself down as a 
volunteer, being in touch that you don't mind being contacted for 
information on some of the topics would be great - the legal ones are 
going to be quite country-specific!

There isn't much amazingly exciting work to do (information and 
standards being what people want) - so if anyone has any other 
suggestions for things to do, just say :) I've got one suggestion that 
I'll be undertaking at least - a better Bibliography/resource 
collection/site, which I discussed out of the meeting.

Andrew

From andrew at aarmstrong.org  Thu Apr  2 15:13:46 2009
From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong)
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 20:13:46 +0100
Subject: [game_preservation] Bibliography project
Message-ID: <49D50E6A.6060103@aarmstrong.org>

Hey all,

I'll probably get the other projects' ideas more fleshed out in the 
coming weeks (people who take over a project can sort their own parts 
though of course :) ), but this one is immediately in my mind and could 
use some good comments early on.

Basically, me and Devin discussed a Bibliography - a list of resources, 
from the normal books to web articles to other media. It would replace 
our current "Resources" list, which is a nightmare to edit and check though!

If anyone has any thoughts on these points, or anything I've forgotten, 
would be ace:
* What kind of fields would be useful to have for each entry (author, 
name, URL, ISBN/ISSN and keywords are obvious, any others?)
* Categories of resources
** by type - such as "book", "news article", "opinion article"...?
** and also content - "game history", "game culture", "legal", 
"preview", "review", "discussion"...? not sure...
* Should I add in a way to reference the game(s) the article might refer to?
* Should there be a facility to either add the entire text of an article 
(so it is searchable, ala google books) or at perhaps at least an 
extract to the entry?
* Should there be a "importance" field - basically our opinion on how 
"useful" some resource is? This might help pick out the "Must reference" 
resources perhaps.
* I think there should be a facility to have an editor-added comment on 
the content of the article - the description, as it were. Thoughts?
* Who wants to help add entries? :) it'll be editor run (with, I hope, 
publicly hidden histories kinda like a wiki) perhaps with some facility 
to have users submit entries. Editing with ease is going to be the priority.

I was going to build a basic site to accommodate this for the mean time 
(it won't be on the IGDA's own server, I'd rather not fight to get 
webspace right now with Jason leaving who was the webmaster ;) ), and 
just basically get it up and running so people can add items. So, a 
simple PHP site, since I know some basic PHP :) I'd build it "correctly" 
since I want to expand this if it is useful, but I hope it'll be quick - 
so the layout will start absolutely horribly at first of course, heh.

Andrew

From donahrm at gmail.com  Thu Apr  2 15:13:47 2009
From: donahrm at gmail.com (Rachel "Sheepy" Donahue)
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 15:13:47 -0400
Subject: [game_preservation] GDC 2009 Report, Roundtable Notes
In-Reply-To: <49D50800.8080500@aarmstrong.org>
References: <49D50800.8080500@aarmstrong.org>
Message-ID: <op.urrw090mfmh8gn@sherpa.westell.com>

Thanks for the notes!

A few comments:

Scanning is not a valid preservation method!!! Ahhhh! ;)
Just saying so because it sounded like you were saying you "didn't need"  
the physical items if they were scanned.. but paper is much more  
straightforward and cheaper to preserve!

You say:

" Fair use is very unexplored territory around this. No test cases for any  
of this stuff. Only way to test things is in court. Fair use for literary  
material is cannot copy more then part of the work..."

Mind, my response is entirely from a US IP law perspective.
I was at an archives conference a few months back and had the good fortune  
of going to a session with a pretty knowledgable (to this peon) IP lawyer.  
I asked her what shrink wrap license meant for the fair use exemptions  
that exist in copyright law, and she said that as there is precedent for  
people making personal agreements to circumvent that sort of law,  
"agreeing" to the license means forfeiting those rights completely.

There's also a fair amount of case law (in the US) -- especially from  
before the DMCA was enacted -- regarding shrink wrap licenses, but it is  
really painful to wade through if you're not a lawyer. There were some  
consumer protection laws that were suggested, but ultimately didn't get  
passed, if I recall. I haven't looked at much of the legal literature  
surrounding DMCA, though (yet).

"An IGDA position to have an official archivist at every company"

I obviously support this ;)

"Maybe having the SIG being a coordinator like the IEEE History Centre. We  
can also go to the other SIG's and get the history of their area of  
history covered."

This might be a little crazy, but when I first thought of the survey I  
thought it would be really cool if something like the American Institute  
of Physics did for physics could be done for the game industry. Basically  
they went around to the major physics industry names and took a look at  
record keeping/generating practices of the company as a whole and  
invididual scientists. The report is really cool and loaded with useful  
information, and will prove to be an important tool in preserving the  
history of physics (which is what AIP strives to do). I think it's a good  
model for any organization looking to preserve industry history; not just  
the sciences.

http://www.aip.org/history/pubs/hopi.html

Obviously a HUGE undertaking, and would probably face a lot of difficulty  
getting to the people in the know since game development is a bit more of  
a closed industry, and I don't think developers view the IGDA (I could be  
wrong!) with the same sort of respect AIP gets. So getting in the door is  
harder.

"A final point on how much it costs to preserve one game - the cost can be  
 from zero to who knows. Say $50,000 if just being asked to preserve  
something ? a big number to do it, just because people like numbers!"

The cost is difficult to calculate because it isn't a one-time, fixed  
cost. Sure, the initial "archiving" of the game may be relatively  
inexpensive.. but what does sustaining it cost? There will be money  
involved in maintaining the servers, migrating emulator code (or the game  
itself), refreshing media, etc, and that's trickier to project.

Ok, I'm done.
Rach

From andrew at aarmstrong.org  Thu Apr  2 15:23:30 2009
From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong)
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 20:23:30 +0100
Subject: [game_preservation] GDC 2009 Report, Roundtable Notes
In-Reply-To: <op.urrw090mfmh8gn@sherpa.westell.com>
References: <49D50800.8080500@aarmstrong.org>
	<op.urrw090mfmh8gn@sherpa.westell.com>
Message-ID: <49D510B2.4020803@aarmstrong.org>

I hardly commented in the meeting, all these are notes from other people 
:) Thanks for implying I said any of it, but I take zero credit. I did 
forget to note the next white paper though which I shouted at the end :) 
(goes and edits).

To reply to what I can: the scanning was to make sure the donators had a 
copy (although as I saw with the physical archives being destroyed in 
Germany recently, a digital copy is somewhat necessary nowadays anyway), 
then the physical items were donated. I guess it wasn't quite clear - 
Steve did that though.

The Physics example might be one to use, looks awesome. The IGDA sadly 
isn't an industry body but a developer body, so there is limited 
contacts with companies directly - and as you say it is more closed, but 
might well be worth a look at if we copy more good stuff from other 
organisations.

The cost - I forgot to note this, Henry said that answer, and as 
everyone knows it is variable. He might have more static figures or 
guesstimates from the virtual worlds project though, it was also 
relating to the previous "standards" discussion - a standard of how to 
preserve a game well enough for the future, at what cost, is sometimes 
important to know.

Andrew

Rachel "Sheepy" Donahue wrote:
> Thanks for the notes!
>
> A few comments:
>
> Scanning is not a valid preservation method!!! Ahhhh! ;)
> Just saying so because it sounded like you were saying you "didn't 
> need" the physical items if they were scanned.. but paper is much more 
> straightforward and cheaper to preserve!
>
> You say:
>
> " Fair use is very unexplored territory around this. No test cases for 
> any of this stuff. Only way to test things is in court. Fair use for 
> literary material is cannot copy more then part of the work..."
>
> Mind, my response is entirely from a US IP law perspective.
> I was at an archives conference a few months back and had the good 
> fortune of going to a session with a pretty knowledgable (to this 
> peon) IP lawyer. I asked her what shrink wrap license meant for the 
> fair use exemptions that exist in copyright law, and she said that as 
> there is precedent for people making personal agreements to circumvent 
> that sort of law, "agreeing" to the license means forfeiting those 
> rights completely.
>
> There's also a fair amount of case law (in the US) -- especially from 
> before the DMCA was enacted -- regarding shrink wrap licenses, but it 
> is really painful to wade through if you're not a lawyer. There were 
> some consumer protection laws that were suggested, but ultimately 
> didn't get passed, if I recall. I haven't looked at much of the legal 
> literature surrounding DMCA, though (yet).
>
> "An IGDA position to have an official archivist at every company"
>
> I obviously support this ;)
>
> "Maybe having the SIG being a coordinator like the IEEE History 
> Centre. We can also go to the other SIG's and get the history of their 
> area of history covered."
>
> This might be a little crazy, but when I first thought of the survey I 
> thought it would be really cool if something like the American 
> Institute of Physics did for physics could be done for the game 
> industry. Basically they went around to the major physics industry 
> names and took a look at record keeping/generating practices of the 
> company as a whole and invididual scientists. The report is really 
> cool and loaded with useful information, and will prove to be an 
> important tool in preserving the history of physics (which is what AIP 
> strives to do). I think it's a good model for any organization looking 
> to preserve industry history; not just the sciences.
>
> http://www.aip.org/history/pubs/hopi.html
>
> Obviously a HUGE undertaking, and would probably face a lot of 
> difficulty getting to the people in the know since game development is 
> a bit more of a closed industry, and I don't think developers view the 
> IGDA (I could be wrong!) with the same sort of respect AIP gets. So 
> getting in the door is harder.
>
> "A final point on how much it costs to preserve one game - the cost 
> can be from zero to who knows. Say $50,000 if just being asked to 
> preserve something ? a big number to do it, just because people like 
> numbers!"
>
> The cost is difficult to calculate because it isn't a one-time, fixed 
> cost. Sure, the initial "archiving" of the game may be relatively 
> inexpensive.. but what does sustaining it cost? There will be money 
> involved in maintaining the servers, migrating emulator code (or the 
> game itself), refreshing media, etc, and that's trickier to project.
>
> Ok, I'm done.
> Rach
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation

From lowood at stanford.edu  Thu Apr  2 16:37:39 2009
From: lowood at stanford.edu (Henry Lowood)
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 13:37:39 -0700
Subject: [game_preservation] GDC 2009 Report, Roundtable Notes
In-Reply-To: <op.urrw090mfmh8gn@sherpa.westell.com>
References: <49D50800.8080500@aarmstrong.org>
	<op.urrw090mfmh8gn@sherpa.westell.com>
Message-ID: <49D52213.30204@stanford.edu>

Hmm, Andrew, "Less need to keep the paper once it is scanned."  I don't 
think anybody said that.  I disagree with the statement, and Steve was 
talking about his need to keep the paper, so that he could give it to a 
repository for safe keeping, once it was scanned.   I think that point 
was missed in the notes.  Also, I would rather not put out in public a 
discussion about an individual's papers.  So perhaps let's just remove 
that bit.

Also, could you remove the notes about the Edge article that was not 
written?  What I said did not come out right, and besides, that was just 
an informal comment, not meant for broadcasting.

Henry

Rachel "Sheepy" Donahue wrote:
> Thanks for the notes!
>
> A few comments:
>
> Scanning is not a valid preservation method!!! Ahhhh! ;)
> Just saying so because it sounded like you were saying you "didn't 
> need" the physical items if they were scanned.. but paper is much more 
> straightforward and cheaper to preserve!
>
> You say:
>
> " Fair use is very unexplored territory around this. No test cases for 
> any of this stuff. Only way to test things is in court. Fair use for 
> literary material is cannot copy more then part of the work..."
>
> Mind, my response is entirely from a US IP law perspective.
> I was at an archives conference a few months back and had the good 
> fortune of going to a session with a pretty knowledgable (to this 
> peon) IP lawyer. I asked her what shrink wrap license meant for the 
> fair use exemptions that exist in copyright law, and she said that as 
> there is precedent for people making personal agreements to circumvent 
> that sort of law, "agreeing" to the license means forfeiting those 
> rights completely.
>
> There's also a fair amount of case law (in the US) -- especially from 
> before the DMCA was enacted -- regarding shrink wrap licenses, but it 
> is really painful to wade through if you're not a lawyer. There were 
> some consumer protection laws that were suggested, but ultimately 
> didn't get passed, if I recall. I haven't looked at much of the legal 
> literature surrounding DMCA, though (yet).
>
> "An IGDA position to have an official archivist at every company"
>
> I obviously support this ;)
>
> "Maybe having the SIG being a coordinator like the IEEE History 
> Centre. We can also go to the other SIG's and get the history of their 
> area of history covered."
>
> This might be a little crazy, but when I first thought of the survey I 
> thought it would be really cool if something like the American 
> Institute of Physics did for physics could be done for the game 
> industry. Basically they went around to the major physics industry 
> names and took a look at record keeping/generating practices of the 
> company as a whole and invididual scientists. The report is really 
> cool and loaded with useful information, and will prove to be an 
> important tool in preserving the history of physics (which is what AIP 
> strives to do). I think it's a good model for any organization looking 
> to preserve industry history; not just the sciences.
>
> http://www.aip.org/history/pubs/hopi.html
>
> Obviously a HUGE undertaking, and would probably face a lot of 
> difficulty getting to the people in the know since game development is 
> a bit more of a closed industry, and I don't think developers view the 
> IGDA (I could be wrong!) with the same sort of respect AIP gets. So 
> getting in the door is harder.
>
> "A final point on how much it costs to preserve one game - the cost 
> can be from zero to who knows. Say $50,000 if just being asked to 
> preserve something ? a big number to do it, just because people like 
> numbers!"
>
> The cost is difficult to calculate because it isn't a one-time, fixed 
> cost. Sure, the initial "archiving" of the game may be relatively 
> inexpensive.. but what does sustaining it cost? There will be money 
> involved in maintaining the servers, migrating emulator code (or the 
> game itself), refreshing media, etc, and that's trickier to project.
>
> Ok, I'm done.
> Rach
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation

-- 
Henry Lowood
Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections;
     Film & Media Collections
HRG, Green Library
557 Escondido Mall, Stanford University Libraries
Stanford CA 94305-6004 USA
http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood
lowood at stanford.edu; 650-723-4602

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From andrew at aarmstrong.org  Thu Apr  2 16:41:13 2009
From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong)
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 21:41:13 +0100
Subject: [game_preservation] GDC 2009 Report, Roundtable Notes
In-Reply-To: <49D52213.30204@stanford.edu>
References: <49D50800.8080500@aarmstrong.org>	<op.urrw090mfmh8gn@sherpa.westell.com>
	<49D52213.30204@stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <49D522E9.9060207@aarmstrong.org>

Sure, I'll edit it to be more clear, it obviously isn't at all. I didn't 
even know who said the Edge thing, but I can remove it, it was just a 
nice little comment I thought :)

Andrew

Henry Lowood wrote:
> Hmm, Andrew, "Less need to keep the paper once it is scanned."  I 
> don't think anybody said that.  I disagree with the statement, and 
> Steve was talking about his need to keep the paper, so that he could 
> give it to a repository for safe keeping, once it was scanned.   I 
> think that point was missed in the notes.  Also, I would rather not 
> put out in public a discussion about an individual's papers.  So 
> perhaps let's just remove that bit.
>
> Also, could you remove the notes about the Edge article that was not 
> written?  What I said did not come out right, and besides, that was 
> just an informal comment, not meant for broadcasting.
>
> Henry
>
> Rachel "Sheepy" Donahue wrote:
>> Thanks for the notes!
>>
>> A few comments:
>>
>> Scanning is not a valid preservation method!!! Ahhhh! ;)
>> Just saying so because it sounded like you were saying you "didn't 
>> need" the physical items if they were scanned.. but paper is much 
>> more straightforward and cheaper to preserve!
>>
>> You say:
>>
>> " Fair use is very unexplored territory around this. No test cases 
>> for any of this stuff. Only way to test things is in court. Fair use 
>> for literary material is cannot copy more then part of the work..."
>>
>> Mind, my response is entirely from a US IP law perspective.
>> I was at an archives conference a few months back and had the good 
>> fortune of going to a session with a pretty knowledgable (to this 
>> peon) IP lawyer. I asked her what shrink wrap license meant for the 
>> fair use exemptions that exist in copyright law, and she said that as 
>> there is precedent for people making personal agreements to 
>> circumvent that sort of law, "agreeing" to the license means 
>> forfeiting those rights completely.
>>
>> There's also a fair amount of case law (in the US) -- especially from 
>> before the DMCA was enacted -- regarding shrink wrap licenses, but it 
>> is really painful to wade through if you're not a lawyer. There were 
>> some consumer protection laws that were suggested, but ultimately 
>> didn't get passed, if I recall. I haven't looked at much of the legal 
>> literature surrounding DMCA, though (yet).
>>
>> "An IGDA position to have an official archivist at every company"
>>
>> I obviously support this ;)
>>
>> "Maybe having the SIG being a coordinator like the IEEE History 
>> Centre. We can also go to the other SIG's and get the history of 
>> their area of history covered."
>>
>> This might be a little crazy, but when I first thought of the survey 
>> I thought it would be really cool if something like the American 
>> Institute of Physics did for physics could be done for the game 
>> industry. Basically they went around to the major physics industry 
>> names and took a look at record keeping/generating practices of the 
>> company as a whole and invididual scientists. The report is really 
>> cool and loaded with useful information, and will prove to be an 
>> important tool in preserving the history of physics (which is what 
>> AIP strives to do). I think it's a good model for any organization 
>> looking to preserve industry history; not just the sciences.
>>
>> http://www.aip.org/history/pubs/hopi.html
>>
>> Obviously a HUGE undertaking, and would probably face a lot of 
>> difficulty getting to the people in the know since game development 
>> is a bit more of a closed industry, and I don't think developers view 
>> the IGDA (I could be wrong!) with the same sort of respect AIP gets. 
>> So getting in the door is harder.
>>
>> "A final point on how much it costs to preserve one game - the cost 
>> can be from zero to who knows. Say $50,000 if just being asked to 
>> preserve something ? a big number to do it, just because people like 
>> numbers!"
>>
>> The cost is difficult to calculate because it isn't a one-time, fixed 
>> cost. Sure, the initial "archiving" of the game may be relatively 
>> inexpensive.. but what does sustaining it cost? There will be money 
>> involved in maintaining the servers, migrating emulator code (or the 
>> game itself), refreshing media, etc, and that's trickier to project.
>>
>> Ok, I'm done.
>> Rach
>> _______________________________________________
>> game_preservation mailing list
>> game_preservation at igda.org
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>
> -- 
> Henry Lowood
> Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections;
>      Film & Media Collections
> HRG, Green Library
> 557 Escondido Mall, Stanford University Libraries
> Stanford CA 94305-6004 USA
> http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood
> lowood at stanford.edu; 650-723-4602
>   
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>   
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From andrew at aarmstrong.org  Thu Apr  2 18:19:13 2009
From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong)
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 23:19:13 +0100
Subject: [game_preservation] [Monthly SIG Roundup] April 2009
Message-ID: <49D539E1.50801@aarmstrong.org>

GDC has come and gone, with our white paper now released, go read it 
<http://www.igda.org/wiki/Game_Preservation_SIG/White_Paper/Before_It%27s_Too_Late:_A_Digital_Game_Preservation_White_Paper>! 



      Preservation SIG March 2009 Work

The white paper "Before It's Too Late: A Digital Game Preservation White 
Paper 
<http://www.igda.org/wiki/Game_Preservation_SIG/White_Paper/Before_It%27s_Too_Late:_A_Digital_Game_Preservation_White_Paper>" 
was finished, and is available in several flavours: DOC 
<http://www.igda.org/wiki/images/8/81/IGDA_Game_Preservation_SIG_-_Before_It%27s_Too_Late_-_A_Digital_Game_Preservation_White_Paper.doc>, 
ODT 
<http://www.igda.org/wiki/images/a/ab/IGDA_Game_Preservation_SIG_-_Before_It%27s_Too_Late_-_A_Digital_Game_Preservation_White_Paper.odt>, 
PDF 
<http://www.igda.org/wiki/images/8/83/IGDA_Game_Preservation_SIG_-_Before_It%27s_Too_Late_-_A_Digital_Game_Preservation_White_Paper.pdf>, 
Lulu Copies 
<http://www.lulu.com/content/paperback-book/before-its-too-late-a-digital-game-preservation-white-paper/6497160> 


March also hosted, of course, the Game Developers Conference. I have put 
up my notes 
<http://www.igda.org/wiki/Game_Preservation_SIG/SIG_Resources/2009_Roundtable> 
and created the relevant project placeholder links on the wiki. Tell me 
or Henry if you are interested in any of the projects, or have a 
suggestion for an area to cover!

Finally, the panel submission for DiGRA has been put forward by Dan, so 
we'll hear news on if that is successful or not in the coming months.


      Future Work for April 2009

My work will include cleaning up ready for new projects and pages, but 
the SIG as a whole can contribute to the flow of ideas for new and old 
projects and information to work on. Hopefully this month I will get 
started into a bibliography website for putting various resources 
related to videogames.


      Mailing List Discussions

If you've not joined our mailing list 
<http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation>, please do 
so. We've never tried using our forums it seems :) we stick to 
old-fangled email. This will eventually change when the IGDA site 
changes over - although those wanting email can still get it.

March 
<http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/game_preservation/2009-March/thread.html> 
had discussions on the laments of young gamers not knowing about arcades 
<http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/game_preservation/2009-March/000965.html>, 
Google's book digitising project 
<http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/game_preservation/2009-March/000972.html>, 
Henry Lowood appearing on a podcast focusing an episode on the history 
of videogames called A Life Well Wasted 
<http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/game_preservation/2009-March/000977.html>, 
and a short discussion on preserving websites 
<http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/game_preservation/2009-March/000997.html>. 


Other minor stuff - there was our GDC flyer 
<http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/game_preservation/2009-March/001026.html> 
made up by Henry, and some neat article finds - Fallouts design document 
<http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/game_preservation/2009-March/001016.html> 
and the first(?) lightgun 
<http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/game_preservation/2009-March/000984.html> 
with additional discussion on the museum that hosts it.

Finally, the white paper was released 
<http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/game_preservation/2009-March/001034.html>! 
Feedback very welcome!


      Preservation SIG Blog Updates / Links

/Have I missed anything this month? Then email it in to 
preservation_news @ igda.org !/

The format of the news will likely change in the future. Without help I 
am falling behind on the actual useful stuff to report on for 
preservationists, historians and the like (no one emails me any news, 
luckily I guess!). I'll probably post useful news immediately, on 
techniques, events (both ones you attend, and big events like something 
shutting down!), preservation/history projects and SIG items. I will be 
working on the Bibliography project for more or less interesting 
historical or game history articles, where I will likely point a feed 
from for more regular "Updates of articles related to game preservation 
and history that you might be interested in reading", whew!

    * Before It's Too Late: A Digital Game Preservation White Paper
      Released
      <http://www.igda.org/preservation/archives/2009/03/before_its_too.html>

    * Meet Nolan Bushnell, the man who created the videogames industry
      <http://www.igda.org/preservation/archives/2009/03/meet_nolan_bush.html>

    * Speak, Atari - How the 2600 forged the home video game future
      <http://www.igda.org/preservation/archives/2009/03/speak_atari_how.html>

    * The History of Tony Hawk's Pro Skater: Ollies, Grabs, and Grinds
      <http://www.igda.org/preservation/archives/2009/03/the_history_of_7.html>

    * Learning to let go
      <http://www.igda.org/preservation/archives/2009/03/learning_to_let.html>

    * The Center for the History of Electronic Games
      <http://www.igda.org/preservation/archives/2009/03/the_center_for.html>

    * Endless loop: A brief history of chiptunes
      <http://www.igda.org/preservation/archives/2009/03/endless_loop_a.html>

    * Byte Back Reports
      <http://www.igda.org/preservation/archives/2009/03/byte_back_repor.html>

    * The Stunning Art & Design of the Atari 2600
      <http://www.igda.org/preservation/archives/2009/03/the_stunning_ar.html>

    * On Atari Cartridges In Deep Caves
      <http://www.igda.org/preservation/archives/2009/03/on_atari_cartri.html>

    * Heart on Fire: Deleted Scenes - #04A
      <http://www.igda.org/preservation/archives/2009/03/heart_on_fire_d.html>

    * A History of... Qwak?
      <http://www.igda.org/preservation/archives/2009/03/a_history_of_qw.html>

    * The Pac-Man Dossier
      <http://www.igda.org/preservation/archives/2009/03/the_pacman_doss.html>

    * Looking Back at Ensemble Studios
      <http://www.igda.org/preservation/archives/2009/03/looking_back_at.html>

    * The History of the Pinball Construction Set
      <http://www.igda.org/preservation/archives/2009/03/_the_history_of_1.html>



      Final Thoughts

Hope anyone who went to GDC had a good time, and those that didn't don't 
feel left out. The roundtable was definitely more a general discussion 
and not focused much on SIG work except for suggestions on what to do :)

Andrew Armstrong

IGDA Game Preservation SIG Site/Blog editor

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From evilcowclone at gmail.com  Thu Apr  2 20:35:30 2009
From: evilcowclone at gmail.com (Devin Monnens)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 17:35:30 -0700
Subject: [game_preservation] Best game of all time?
In-Reply-To: <49D4F4CF.1080702@aarmstrong.org>
References: <b96706b70904020858rdae9505u32b0161a49cd60df@mail.gmail.com>
	<49D4F4CF.1080702@aarmstrong.org>
Message-ID: <b96706b70904021735ta4adcb9jedf764abfd0b408b@mail.gmail.com>

Ahh, but Doom had multiplayer AND machinima!

-Devin

On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 10:24 AM, Andrew Armstrong <andrew at aarmstrong.org>wrote:

>  It is a popularity contest, but even an incomplete one - Bill and Matt's
> book has more entries then that! I'm pretty sure I am not going to even
> attempt to do anything about this since doing so would be stupid - 99% of
> people will pick an entry from the list and be done with it, and of the
> other 1%, I suspect not many would go for a classic vintage game in any
> case. Pretty useless in both cases anyway!
>
> Castle Woflenstein is referencing the one from 1981 btw - a tad different
> to a 3d shooter, although Wolfenstein 3d honestly was probably a lot more
> influential in general then Doom (or rather, perhaps coupled with Doom),
> despite the close release dates.
>
> Andrew
>
> Devin Monnens wrote:
>
> The latest IGDA newsletter (yeah, sent a few weeks ago, but GDC makes
> everyone busy!) mentioned a contest to pick the most influential game of all
> time. I personally don't think more than a fraction of the games on the list
> here are worth mentioning as influential, and some (Wolfenstein and Doom)
> seem to be the exact same thing.
>
> http://www.focalpress.com/giveaway.aspx?ekfrm=6770
>
> Anyway, I find it odd that IGDA mentions this but nothing with game
> preservation. This is clearly going to be more a popularity contest than
> anything academic, but I'm kind of interested in what people on this list
> think. I've got half a mind to just say 'Spacewar!' and be done with it -
> after all, Spacewar! influenced Nolan Bushnell to get into games. Other than
> that, I'd say Ralph Baer's Pong game (though the videogames would have come
> around later if Baer and Bushnell hadn't gotten there first).
>
> In terms of widespread influence though, Super Mario Bros. might be a
> better pick because it sort of distills a lot of ideas about design and
> inspires game players to become game makers. A game that is influential
> should do two things in my mind: inspire someone to create his or her own
> videogames and to influence the design of other games by allowing other
> designers to learn from it. It's kind of hard to track both of these, and
> it's ridiculous to suppose that one single game can be responsible for
> everything. Of course, a third option is games that create meaning or that
> act as art, but these have been so recent (Ico and Super Columbine Massacre
> RPG) that they haven't yet had a chance to influence the industry. So this
> is more historical than anything else.
>
> Anyway, that's probably too much analysis into what ultimately ammounts to
> just a popularity contest :)
>
> -Devin Monnens
>
> --
> The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
>
> "Until next time..."
> Captain Commando
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing listgame_preservation at igda.orghttp://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>
>


-- 
The sleep of Reason produces monsters.

"Until next time..."
Captain Commando
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From evilcowclone at gmail.com  Fri Apr  3 14:56:10 2009
From: evilcowclone at gmail.com (Devin Monnens)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 12:56:10 -0600
Subject: [game_preservation] Bibliography project
In-Reply-To: <49D50E6A.6060103@aarmstrong.org>
References: <49D50E6A.6060103@aarmstrong.org>
Message-ID: <b96706b70904031156g24afef50x97d9f9c694341418@mail.gmail.com>

Andrew,

Sounds like a good idea. I'd say required fields are the things we generally
use for references:

Author, title of work, title of source, publication information. ISBN is
also useful, as would be a mention of other places the article appears.

Commentary and rating system can be useful, but I would suggest that the
rating system (say 5 stars) could be out of context - not useful in what
way? The article may be very good, but if the article has nothing to do with
preservation, then why rate it highly?

I also think when possible we should have a collection of essays that have
been written on the site. This might not be possible with some texts, but we
could at least do an external link to them (say through Google books or the
like).

Anyway, this will be a great project. I think we definitely need a list of
'must reads' because this indicates sort of the canon of digital media
preservation (and preservation in general). We can also try to organize
based on who is workign with what - so for the papers coming out of Europe,
we can indicate which archives or universities they are working with and
perhaps who is connected with that, too.

-Devin Monnens

On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 1:13 PM, Andrew Armstrong <andrew at aarmstrong.org>wrote:

> Hey all,
>
> I'll probably get the other projects' ideas more fleshed out in the coming
> weeks (people who take over a project can sort their own parts though of
> course :) ), but this one is immediately in my mind and could use some good
> comments early on.
>
> Basically, me and Devin discussed a Bibliography - a list of resources,
> from the normal books to web articles to other media. It would replace our
> current "Resources" list, which is a nightmare to edit and check though!
>
> If anyone has any thoughts on these points, or anything I've forgotten,
> would be ace:
> * What kind of fields would be useful to have for each entry (author, name,
> URL, ISBN/ISSN and keywords are obvious, any others?)
> * Categories of resources
> ** by type - such as "book", "news article", "opinion article"...?
> ** and also content - "game history", "game culture", "legal", "preview",
> "review", "discussion"...? not sure...
> * Should I add in a way to reference the game(s) the article might refer
> to?
> * Should there be a facility to either add the entire text of an article
> (so it is searchable, ala google books) or at perhaps at least an extract to
> the entry?
> * Should there be a "importance" field - basically our opinion on how
> "useful" some resource is? This might help pick out the "Must reference"
> resources perhaps.
> * I think there should be a facility to have an editor-added comment on the
> content of the article - the description, as it were. Thoughts?
> * Who wants to help add entries? :) it'll be editor run (with, I hope,
> publicly hidden histories kinda like a wiki) perhaps with some facility to
> have users submit entries. Editing with ease is going to be the priority.
>
> I was going to build a basic site to accommodate this for the mean time (it
> won't be on the IGDA's own server, I'd rather not fight to get webspace
> right now with Jason leaving who was the webmaster ;) ), and just basically
> get it up and running so people can add items. So, a simple PHP site, since
> I know some basic PHP :) I'd build it "correctly" since I want to expand
> this if it is useful, but I hope it'll be quick - so the layout will start
> absolutely horribly at first of course, heh.
>
> Andrew
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>



-- 
The sleep of Reason produces monsters.

"Until next time..."
Captain Commando
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From donahrm at gmail.com  Fri Apr  3 22:13:42 2009
From: donahrm at gmail.com (Rachel "Sheepy" Donahue)
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2009 22:13:42 -0400
Subject: [game_preservation] Bar Association IP conference
In-Reply-To: <49D5229C.9020704@stanford.edu>
References: <62f02aa20904021052i7203cffqa17f47e98f76e9b2@mail.gmail.com>
	<49D5229C.9020704@stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <op.urua44tufmh8gn@sherpa.westell.com>

Heard about it a little too late, but maybe the speakers will post their  
papers later. With titles like "It?s a Bold New Virtual World Out There  
?Should We Be Worried?" I sure hope so!

http://www.abanet.org/abanet/media/release/news_release.cfm?releaseid=588

From andrew at aarmstrong.org  Sun Apr  5 11:11:47 2009
From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong)
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2009 16:11:47 +0100
Subject: [game_preservation] Bibliography project
In-Reply-To: <b96706b70904031156g24afef50x97d9f9c694341418@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49D50E6A.6060103@aarmstrong.org>
	<b96706b70904031156g24afef50x97d9f9c694341418@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49D8CA33.5020008@aarmstrong.org>

Sounds good, the rating thing was probably going to be for articles 
highly related to preservation - if we add an article, it implies it is 
a good source for *something* but not necessarily historical work - the 
way a game is made is useful for certain types of research into that 
game for instance, but not generally historical, whereas why a game was 
made and what went on when it was made in the company might be better.

Will have to think if it it just needs a simple "Yes/No" for "Highly 
useful" or whatever it is given. Might need to fine tune it more - if it 
is useful for information and accuracy on "X" but not on "Y".

Must reads is a key part - key texts need to be added for general work, 
and I've noted down your other fields - I forgot publisher etc.! :)

Andrew

Devin Monnens wrote:
> Andrew,
>  
> Sounds like a good idea. I'd say required fields are the things we 
> generally use for references:
>  
> Author, title of work, title of source, publication information. ISBN 
> is also useful, as would be a mention of other places the article appears.
>  
> Commentary and rating system can be useful, but I would suggest that 
> the rating system (say 5 stars) could be out of context - not useful 
> in what way? The article may be very good, but if the article has 
> nothing to do with preservation, then why rate it highly?
>  
> I also think when possible we should have a collection of essays that 
> have been written on the site. This might not be possible with some 
> texts, but we could at least do an external link to them (say through 
> Google books or the like).
>  
> Anyway, this will be a great project. I think we definitely need a 
> list of 'must reads' because this indicates sort of the canon of 
> digital media preservation (and preservation in general). We can also 
> try to organize based on who is workign with what - so for the papers 
> coming out of Europe, we can indicate which archives or universities 
> they are working with and perhaps who is connected with that, too.
>  
> -Devin Monnens
>
> On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 1:13 PM, Andrew Armstrong 
> <andrew at aarmstrong.org <mailto:andrew at aarmstrong.org>> wrote:
>
>     Hey all,
>
>     I'll probably get the other projects' ideas more fleshed out in
>     the coming weeks (people who take over a project can sort their
>     own parts though of course :) ), but this one is immediately in my
>     mind and could use some good comments early on.
>
>     Basically, me and Devin discussed a Bibliography - a list of
>     resources, from the normal books to web articles to other media.
>     It would replace our current "Resources" list, which is a
>     nightmare to edit and check though!
>
>     If anyone has any thoughts on these points, or anything I've
>     forgotten, would be ace:
>     * What kind of fields would be useful to have for each entry
>     (author, name, URL, ISBN/ISSN and keywords are obvious, any others?)
>     * Categories of resources
>     ** by type - such as "book", "news article", "opinion article"...?
>     ** and also content - "game history", "game culture", "legal",
>     "preview", "review", "discussion"...? not sure...
>     * Should I add in a way to reference the game(s) the article might
>     refer to?
>     * Should there be a facility to either add the entire text of an
>     article (so it is searchable, ala google books) or at perhaps at
>     least an extract to the entry?
>     * Should there be a "importance" field - basically our opinion on
>     how "useful" some resource is? This might help pick out the "Must
>     reference" resources perhaps.
>     * I think there should be a facility to have an editor-added
>     comment on the content of the article - the description, as it
>     were. Thoughts?
>     * Who wants to help add entries? :) it'll be editor run (with, I
>     hope, publicly hidden histories kinda like a wiki) perhaps with
>     some facility to have users submit entries. Editing with ease is
>     going to be the priority.
>
>     I was going to build a basic site to accommodate this for the mean
>     time (it won't be on the IGDA's own server, I'd rather not fight
>     to get webspace right now with Jason leaving who was the webmaster
>     ;) ), and just basically get it up and running so people can add
>     items. So, a simple PHP site, since I know some basic PHP :) I'd
>     build it "correctly" since I want to expand this if it is useful,
>     but I hope it'll be quick - so the layout will start absolutely
>     horribly at first of course, heh.
>
>     Andrew
>     _______________________________________________
>     game_preservation mailing list
>     game_preservation at igda.org <mailto:game_preservation at igda.org>
>     http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
>
> "Until next time..."
> Captain Commando
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>   
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From donahrm at gmail.com  Tue Apr  7 15:48:49 2009
From: donahrm at gmail.com (Rachel "Sheepy" Donahue)
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2009 15:48:49 -0400
Subject: [game_preservation] Game industry survey responses
Message-ID: <op.ur07znssfmh8gn@sherpa.umd.edu>

Hi all,

The survey responses are finally starting to come in in good numbers  
(yay!) but only 30% of respondents are actually answering the whole thing  
(boo!) In particular, all but one respondent from a company larger than 50  
people has gotten past question 8. In otherwords, they say "yes we have a  
formal archives/records management/library program" (excitement!) and then  
decline to give ANY details, which isn't so helpful. I don't know if they  
got bored, didn't realize there were more questions, or saw the questions  
and decided the ought not to answer them.

Does anyone have any direct contacts for the larger game companies that  
you might be able to put me in contact with (if you know any actual  
information managers there that would be ideal, followed by people  
involved with configuration management, followed by anyone willing to  
listen), or direct to the survey in context? The survey can be completely  
anonymous as all questions are optional -- they can leave the company name  
out and just indicate the size of the company, or put the company name in  
and check that they don't want it shared with anyone but the researchers  
(myself and my faculty advisor), so the "danger" should be very limited.

Thanks!
Rachel

-------
Rachel Donahue
Graduate Assistant
Maryland Institute for Technology in the Humanities
University of Maryland, College Park
College Park, MD

From evilcowclone at gmail.com  Wed Apr  8 20:16:54 2009
From: evilcowclone at gmail.com (Devin Monnens)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 18:16:54 -0600
Subject: [game_preservation] RIP Dave Arneson
In-Reply-To: <b96706b70904081708h207665e1ldb122d3ee75f2024@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b96706b70904081708h207665e1ldb122d3ee75f2024@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b96706b70904081716o1d6bd44dh2a95eb7b2d9d5604@mail.gmail.com>

Dave Arneson, co-creator of D&D, campaign author, and game designer, died
yesterday. He was 61. We'll add an article to him on the Memorials.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Arneson

-Devin




-- 
The sleep of Reason produces monsters.

"Until next time..."
Captain Commando
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From zvowell at austin.utexas.edu  Mon Apr 13 10:00:26 2009
From: zvowell at austin.utexas.edu (Vowell, Zach)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 09:00:26 -0500
Subject: [game_preservation] Archivist character in Diablo
Message-ID: <C608AFAA.4E2D%zvowell@austin.utexas.edu>


Okay, so apparently it's an April Fool's thing, and this archivist's primary
responsibilities are scrolls and tomes, but still, fun to see:

http://www.blizzard.com/diablo3/characters/archivist.xml

Maybe we can count on Blizzard to have a true-blue in-house archivist.


Zach


-- 
Zach Vowell
Archivist, UT Videogame Archive
The Dolph Briscoe Center for American History
512.495.4405
http://www.utvideogamearchive.org


From andrew at aarmstrong.org  Mon Apr 13 10:05:04 2009
From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 15:05:04 +0100
Subject: [game_preservation] Archivist character in Diablo
In-Reply-To: <C608AFAA.4E2D%zvowell@austin.utexas.edu>
References: <C608AFAA.4E2D%zvowell@austin.utexas.edu>
Message-ID: <49E34690.5070102@aarmstrong.org>

That'd be nice, perhaps they'll respond to Rachels survey :)

Andrew

Vowell, Zach wrote:
> Okay, so apparently it's an April Fool's thing, and this archivist's primary
> responsibilities are scrolls and tomes, but still, fun to see:
>
> http://www.blizzard.com/diablo3/characters/archivist.xml
>
> Maybe we can count on Blizzard to have a true-blue in-house archivist.
>
>
> Zach
>
>
>   

From andrew at aarmstrong.org  Mon Apr 13 10:52:58 2009
From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 15:52:58 +0100
Subject: [game_preservation] Improving the IGDA Preservation SIG Blog/News
	area
Message-ID: <49E351CA.9080200@aarmstrong.org>

Hey all,

I've cut back from posting historical articles on the IGDA Preservation 
SIG Blog - which will get transferred over to the new site BTW (they can 
import things :) ). This is from what I said in the April roundup:

The format of the news will likely change in the future. Without help I 
am falling behind on the actual useful stuff to report on for 
preservationists, historians and the like (no one emails me any news, 
luckily I guess!). I'll probably post useful news immediately, on 
techniques, events (both ones you attend, and big events like something 
shutting down!), preservation/history projects and SIG items. I will be 
working on the Bibliography project for more or less interesting 
historical or game history articles, where I will likely point a feed 
from for more regular "Updates of articles related to game preservation 
and history that you might be interested in reading", whew!

Lots of exclamation marks, eh? I don't exactly have anyone editing my 
work :) What I will be doing in the future:

* Post all SIG related news, changes, project information
* Post all memorials, in separate entries
* Post important information regarding things that impact preservation - 
such as laws, major events (such as things shutting down, major 
donations to archives, museums opening, etc)
* Post all preservation-related events (such as DiGRA), and maybe retro 
computer/game events

Possibly:

* Post in-depth articles on special videogame preservation related 
topics, which are also mirrored on our wiki or other sites (such as some 
of the items we have as projects to get information about)
* Do interviews with historians, developers, or related people to the 
topic of game preservation
* Roundup what has been added to the Internet Archive

So, does everyone agree with what I'm doing? Is this better or worse 
then before? Does anyone want to help or provide some tips? We are on 
the lookout for more contributors for this, at least being available for 
an interview perhaps :)

I'll bring up the GDC-brought-up projects next week, a topic each so we 
can get those discussed a bit. The bibliography is still something I 
want to get done - I think there are different sites for papers 
specifically (as we've checked out), but a good resource listing 
videogame related topics as they come up will be good (for instance, 
every GDC seems to bring up a few key topics that get discussed by 
various people - this year, IGDA's QoL issues, "Immature Game 
Developers", and Metacritic being bigger ones).

Thanks,

Andrew

From donahrm at gmail.com  Mon Apr 13 11:25:16 2009
From: donahrm at gmail.com (Rachel "Sheepy" Donahue)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 11:25:16 -0400
Subject: [game_preservation] Archivist character in Diablo
In-Reply-To: <49E34690.5070102@aarmstrong.org>
References: <C608AFAA.4E2D%zvowell@austin.utexas.edu>
	<49E34690.5070102@aarmstrong.org>
Message-ID: <op.usbzsegifmh8gn@sherpa.westell.com>

Not yet, I'm afraid. That was definitely the best April Fool's thing I  
saw, though!

On Mon, 13 Apr 2009 10:05:04 -0400, Andrew Armstrong  
<andrew at aarmstrong.org> wrote:

> That'd be nice, perhaps they'll respond to Rachels survey :)
>
> Andrew
>
> Vowell, Zach wrote:
>> Okay, so apparently it's an April Fool's thing, and this archivist's  
>> primary
>> responsibilities are scrolls and tomes, but still, fun to see:
>>
>> http://www.blizzard.com/diablo3/characters/archivist.xml
>>
>> Maybe we can count on Blizzard to have a true-blue in-house archivist.
>>
>>
>> Zach
>>
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation



-- 
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

From andrew at aarmstrong.org  Mon Apr 13 11:27:56 2009
From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 16:27:56 +0100
Subject: [game_preservation] Archivist character in Diablo
In-Reply-To: <op.usbzsegifmh8gn@sherpa.westell.com>
References: <C608AFAA.4E2D%zvowell@austin.utexas.edu>	<49E34690.5070102@aarmstrong.org>
	<op.usbzsegifmh8gn@sherpa.westell.com>
Message-ID: <49E359FC.9010805@aarmstrong.org>

One thing, this does raise a question (in game design) why, at least in 
a more persistant setting, there are not scholarly-available classes - 
ones that do, literally, work on recording history or doing research. 
There's a few stabs at this (some prestiege classes in D&D for instance) 
but not really much of an attempt to get historian classes into games.

I say we petition every MMO for this :) Who cares about beating up 
monsters if we can sit around researching, interviewing and recording! :P

Andrew

Rachel "Sheepy" Donahue wrote:
> Not yet, I'm afraid. That was definitely the best April Fool's thing I 
> saw, though!
>
> On Mon, 13 Apr 2009 10:05:04 -0400, Andrew Armstrong 
> <andrew at aarmstrong.org> wrote:
>
>> That'd be nice, perhaps they'll respond to Rachels survey :)
>>
>> Andrew
>>
>> Vowell, Zach wrote:
>>> Okay, so apparently it's an April Fool's thing, and this archivist's 
>>> primary
>>> responsibilities are scrolls and tomes, but still, fun to see:
>>>
>>> http://www.blizzard.com/diablo3/characters/archivist.xml
>>>
>>> Maybe we can count on Blizzard to have a true-blue in-house archivist.
>>>
>>>
>>> Zach
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> game_preservation mailing list
>> game_preservation at igda.org
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>
>
>

From donahrm at gmail.com  Mon Apr 13 11:35:13 2009
From: donahrm at gmail.com (Rachel "Sheepy" Donahue)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 11:35:13 -0400
Subject: [game_preservation] Archivist character in Diablo
In-Reply-To: <49E359FC.9010805@aarmstrong.org>
References: <C608AFAA.4E2D%zvowell@austin.utexas.edu>
	<49E34690.5070102@aarmstrong.org>
	<op.usbzsegifmh8gn@sherpa.westell.com>
	<49E359FC.9010805@aarmstrong.org>
Message-ID: <op.usbz8zf6fmh8gn@sherpa.westell.com>

I suspect you have a lot of researchers/historians/other info  
professionals who play the MMO's to hack and slash through the  
frustrations caused by their profession :P

(Not from personal experience, of course. Lalala.)

On Mon, 13 Apr 2009 11:27:56 -0400, Andrew Armstrong  
<andrew at aarmstrong.org> wrote:

> One thing, this does raise a question (in game design) why, at least in  
> a more persistant setting, there are not scholarly-available classes -  
> ones that do, literally, work on recording history or doing research.  
> There's a few stabs at this (some prestiege classes in D&D for instance)  
> but not really much of an attempt to get historian classes into games.
>
> I say we petition every MMO for this :) Who cares about beating up  
> monsters if we can sit around researching, interviewing and recording! :P
>
> Andrew

From andrew at aarmstrong.org  Mon Apr 13 11:38:15 2009
From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 16:38:15 +0100
Subject: [game_preservation] Archivist character in Diablo
In-Reply-To: <op.usbz8zf6fmh8gn@sherpa.westell.com>
References: <C608AFAA.4E2D%zvowell@austin.utexas.edu>	<49E34690.5070102@aarmstrong.org>	<op.usbzsegifmh8gn@sherpa.westell.com>	<49E359FC.9010805@aarmstrong.org>
	<op.usbz8zf6fmh8gn@sherpa.westell.com>
Message-ID: <49E35C67.2020605@aarmstrong.org>

Ahahaha, you'll be on the mark with that comment I think :) it certainly 
applies to me (well, except it's not MMO's, just other violent games, heh)

Andrew

Rachel "Sheepy" Donahue wrote:
> I suspect you have a lot of researchers/historians/other info 
> professionals who play the MMO's to hack and slash through the 
> frustrations caused by their profession :P
>
> (Not from personal experience, of course. Lalala.)
>
> On Mon, 13 Apr 2009 11:27:56 -0400, Andrew Armstrong 
> <andrew at aarmstrong.org> wrote:
>
>> One thing, this does raise a question (in game design) why, at least 
>> in a more persistant setting, there are not scholarly-available 
>> classes - ones that do, literally, work on recording history or doing 
>> research. There's a few stabs at this (some prestiege classes in D&D 
>> for instance) but not really much of an attempt to get historian 
>> classes into games.
>>
>> I say we petition every MMO for this :) Who cares about beating up 
>> monsters if we can sit around researching, interviewing and 
>> recording! :P
>>
>> Andrew
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation

From lowood at stanford.edu  Mon Apr 13 12:20:51 2009
From: lowood at stanford.edu (Henry Lowood)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 09:20:51 -0700
Subject: [game_preservation] Archivist character in Diablo
In-Reply-To: <49E359FC.9010805@aarmstrong.org>
References: <C608AFAA.4E2D%zvowell@austin.utexas.edu>	<49E34690.5070102@aarmstrong.org>	<op.usbzsegifmh8gn@sherpa.westell.com>
	<49E359FC.9010805@aarmstrong.org>
Message-ID: <49E36663.1090202@stanford.edu>

LotRO -- the historian vocation.  There is also an archivists group in SL.

Henry

Andrew Armstrong wrote:
> One thing, this does raise a question (in game design) why, at least 
> in a more persistant setting, there are not scholarly-available 
> classes - ones that do, literally, work on recording history or doing 
> research. There's a few stabs at this (some prestiege classes in D&D 
> for instance) but not really much of an attempt to get historian 
> classes into games.
>
> I say we petition every MMO for this :) Who cares about beating up 
> monsters if we can sit around researching, interviewing and recording! :P
>
> Andrew
>
> Rachel "Sheepy" Donahue wrote:
>> Not yet, I'm afraid. That was definitely the best April Fool's thing 
>> I saw, though!
>>
>> On Mon, 13 Apr 2009 10:05:04 -0400, Andrew Armstrong 
>> <andrew at aarmstrong.org> wrote:
>>
>>> That'd be nice, perhaps they'll respond to Rachels survey :)
>>>
>>> Andrew
>>>
>>> Vowell, Zach wrote:
>>>> Okay, so apparently it's an April Fool's thing, and this 
>>>> archivist's primary
>>>> responsibilities are scrolls and tomes, but still, fun to see:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.blizzard.com/diablo3/characters/archivist.xml
>>>>
>>>> Maybe we can count on Blizzard to have a true-blue in-house archivist.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Zach
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> game_preservation mailing list
>>> game_preservation at igda.org
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>>
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation

-- 
Henry Lowood, Ph.D.
Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections;
 Film & Media Collections
HRG, Green Library, 557 Escondido Mall
Stanford University Libraries
Stanford CA 94305-6004
650-723-4602; lowood at stanford.edu; http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood 
<http://www.stanford.edu/%7Elowood>
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From lowood at stanford.edu  Mon Apr 13 12:31:34 2009
From: lowood at stanford.edu (Henry Lowood)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 09:31:34 -0700
Subject: [game_preservation] Improving the IGDA Preservation SIG
 Blog/News area
In-Reply-To: <49E351CA.9080200@aarmstrong.org>
References: <49E351CA.9080200@aarmstrong.org>
Message-ID: <49E368E6.2080404@stanford.edu>

That seems reasonable, Andrew.  The "possibly" categories are truly 
optional.  BTW you can use RSS from Internet Archive to post directly to 
drupal sites; no need for human intervention if you want to post items 
received.  However, I would use a separate page for that feed, otherwise 
it will push other posts down.

Henry

Andrew Armstrong wrote:
> Hey all,
>
> I've cut back from posting historical articles on the IGDA 
> Preservation SIG Blog - which will get transferred over to the new 
> site BTW (they can import things :) ). This is from what I said in the 
> April roundup:
>
> The format of the news will likely change in the future. Without help 
> I am falling behind on the actual useful stuff to report on for 
> preservationists, historians and the like (no one emails me any news, 
> luckily I guess!). I'll probably post useful news immediately, on 
> techniques, events (both ones you attend, and big events like 
> something shutting down!), preservation/history projects and SIG 
> items. I will be working on the Bibliography project for more or less 
> interesting historical or game history articles, where I will likely 
> point a feed from for more regular "Updates of articles related to 
> game preservation and history that you might be interested in 
> reading", whew!
>
> Lots of exclamation marks, eh? I don't exactly have anyone editing my 
> work :) What I will be doing in the future:
>
> * Post all SIG related news, changes, project information
> * Post all memorials, in separate entries
> * Post important information regarding things that impact preservation 
> - such as laws, major events (such as things shutting down, major 
> donations to archives, museums opening, etc)
> * Post all preservation-related events (such as DiGRA), and maybe 
> retro computer/game events
>
> Possibly:
>
> * Post in-depth articles on special videogame preservation related 
> topics, which are also mirrored on our wiki or other sites (such as 
> some of the items we have as projects to get information about)
> * Do interviews with historians, developers, or related people to the 
> topic of game preservation
> * Roundup what has been added to the Internet Archive
>
> So, does everyone agree with what I'm doing? Is this better or worse 
> then before? Does anyone want to help or provide some tips? We are on 
> the lookout for more contributors for this, at least being available 
> for an interview perhaps :)
>
> I'll bring up the GDC-brought-up projects next week, a topic each so 
> we can get those discussed a bit. The bibliography is still something 
> I want to get done - I think there are different sites for papers 
> specifically (as we've checked out), but a good resource listing 
> videogame related topics as they come up will be good (for instance, 
> every GDC seems to bring up a few key topics that get discussed by 
> various people - this year, IGDA's QoL issues, "Immature Game 
> Developers", and Metacritic being bigger ones).
>
> Thanks,
>
> Andrew
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation

-- 
Henry Lowood, Ph.D.
Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections;
 Film & Media Collections
HRG, Green Library, 557 Escondido Mall
Stanford University Libraries
Stanford CA 94305-6004
650-723-4602; lowood at stanford.edu; http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood 
<http://www.stanford.edu/%7Elowood>

From andrew at aarmstrong.org  Mon Apr 13 14:02:05 2009
From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 19:02:05 +0100
Subject: [game_preservation] Improving the IGDA Preservation SIG
 Blog/News area
In-Reply-To: <49E368E6.2080404@stanford.edu>
References: <49E351CA.9080200@aarmstrong.org> <49E368E6.2080404@stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <49E37E1D.8030805@aarmstrong.org>

Okay, great :)

I've no idea if we're allowed that RSS functionality on the new site, 
I'll look into it - it was going to be more a weekly news item, doing it 
per item can mean a dozen or more at once I guess. This is more 
something I'll get going once the new site is available though, since I 
can then start embedding images and stuff.

Andrew

Henry Lowood wrote:
> That seems reasonable, Andrew.  The "possibly" categories are truly 
> optional.  BTW you can use RSS from Internet Archive to post directly 
> to drupal sites; no need for human intervention if you want to post 
> items received.  However, I would use a separate page for that feed, 
> otherwise it will push other posts down.
>
> Henry
>
> Andrew Armstrong wrote:
>> Hey all,
>>
>> I've cut back from posting historical articles on the IGDA 
>> Preservation SIG Blog - which will get transferred over to the new 
>> site BTW (they can import things :) ). This is from what I said in 
>> the April roundup:
>>
>> The format of the news will likely change in the future. Without help 
>> I am falling behind on the actual useful stuff to report on for 
>> preservationists, historians and the like (no one emails me any news, 
>> luckily I guess!). I'll probably post useful news immediately, on 
>> techniques, events (both ones you attend, and big events like 
>> something shutting down!), preservation/history projects and SIG 
>> items. I will be working on the Bibliography project for more or less 
>> interesting historical or game history articles, where I will likely 
>> point a feed from for more regular "Updates of articles related to 
>> game preservation and history that you might be interested in 
>> reading", whew!
>>
>> Lots of exclamation marks, eh? I don't exactly have anyone editing my 
>> work :) What I will be doing in the future:
>>
>> * Post all SIG related news, changes, project information
>> * Post all memorials, in separate entries
>> * Post important information regarding things that impact 
>> preservation - such as laws, major events (such as things shutting 
>> down, major donations to archives, museums opening, etc)
>> * Post all preservation-related events (such as DiGRA), and maybe 
>> retro computer/game events
>>
>> Possibly:
>>
>> * Post in-depth articles on special videogame preservation related 
>> topics, which are also mirrored on our wiki or other sites (such as 
>> some of the items we have as projects to get information about)
>> * Do interviews with historians, developers, or related people to the 
>> topic of game preservation
>> * Roundup what has been added to the Internet Archive
>>
>> So, does everyone agree with what I'm doing? Is this better or worse 
>> then before? Does anyone want to help or provide some tips? We are on 
>> the lookout for more contributors for this, at least being available 
>> for an interview perhaps :)
>>
>> I'll bring up the GDC-brought-up projects next week, a topic each so 
>> we can get those discussed a bit. The bibliography is still something 
>> I want to get done - I think there are different sites for papers 
>> specifically (as we've checked out), but a good resource listing 
>> videogame related topics as they come up will be good (for instance, 
>> every GDC seems to bring up a few key topics that get discussed by 
>> various people - this year, IGDA's QoL issues, "Immature Game 
>> Developers", and Metacritic being bigger ones).
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Andrew
>> _______________________________________________
>> game_preservation mailing list
>> game_preservation at igda.org
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>

From lowood at stanford.edu  Mon Apr 13 14:04:11 2009
From: lowood at stanford.edu (Henry Lowood)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 11:04:11 -0700
Subject: [game_preservation] Improving the IGDA Preservation SIG
 Blog/News area
In-Reply-To: <49E37E1D.8030805@aarmstrong.org>
References: <49E351CA.9080200@aarmstrong.org> <49E368E6.2080404@stanford.edu>
	<49E37E1D.8030805@aarmstrong.org>
Message-ID: <49E37E9B.4010003@stanford.edu>

If the drupal installation has a plain-text editor that allows full use 
of html, then you can use the RSS feed, I think.  Henry

Andrew Armstrong wrote:
> Okay, great :)
>
> I've no idea if we're allowed that RSS functionality on the new site, 
> I'll look into it - it was going to be more a weekly news item, doing 
> it per item can mean a dozen or more at once I guess. This is more 
> something I'll get going once the new site is available though, since 
> I can then start embedding images and stuff.
>
> Andrew
>
> Henry Lowood wrote:
>> That seems reasonable, Andrew.  The "possibly" categories are truly 
>> optional.  BTW you can use RSS from Internet Archive to post directly 
>> to drupal sites; no need for human intervention if you want to post 
>> items received.  However, I would use a separate page for that feed, 
>> otherwise it will push other posts down.
>>
>> Henry
>>
>> Andrew Armstrong wrote:
>>> Hey all,
>>>
>>> I've cut back from posting historical articles on the IGDA 
>>> Preservation SIG Blog - which will get transferred over to the new 
>>> site BTW (they can import things :) ). This is from what I said in 
>>> the April roundup:
>>>
>>> The format of the news will likely change in the future. Without 
>>> help I am falling behind on the actual useful stuff to report on for 
>>> preservationists, historians and the like (no one emails me any 
>>> news, luckily I guess!). I'll probably post useful news immediately, 
>>> on techniques, events (both ones you attend, and big events like 
>>> something shutting down!), preservation/history projects and SIG 
>>> items. I will be working on the Bibliography project for more or 
>>> less interesting historical or game history articles, where I will 
>>> likely point a feed from for more regular "Updates of articles 
>>> related to game preservation and history that you might be 
>>> interested in reading", whew!
>>>
>>> Lots of exclamation marks, eh? I don't exactly have anyone editing 
>>> my work :) What I will be doing in the future:
>>>
>>> * Post all SIG related news, changes, project information
>>> * Post all memorials, in separate entries
>>> * Post important information regarding things that impact 
>>> preservation - such as laws, major events (such as things shutting 
>>> down, major donations to archives, museums opening, etc)
>>> * Post all preservation-related events (such as DiGRA), and maybe 
>>> retro computer/game events
>>>
>>> Possibly:
>>>
>>> * Post in-depth articles on special videogame preservation related 
>>> topics, which are also mirrored on our wiki or other sites (such as 
>>> some of the items we have as projects to get information about)
>>> * Do interviews with historians, developers, or related people to 
>>> the topic of game preservation
>>> * Roundup what has been added to the Internet Archive
>>>
>>> So, does everyone agree with what I'm doing? Is this better or worse 
>>> then before? Does anyone want to help or provide some tips? We are 
>>> on the lookout for more contributors for this, at least being 
>>> available for an interview perhaps :)
>>>
>>> I'll bring up the GDC-brought-up projects next week, a topic each so 
>>> we can get those discussed a bit. The bibliography is still 
>>> something I want to get done - I think there are different sites for 
>>> papers specifically (as we've checked out), but a good resource 
>>> listing videogame related topics as they come up will be good (for 
>>> instance, every GDC seems to bring up a few key topics that get 
>>> discussed by various people - this year, IGDA's QoL issues, 
>>> "Immature Game Developers", and Metacritic being bigger ones).
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Andrew
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> game_preservation mailing list
>>> game_preservation at igda.org
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>>
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation

-- 
Henry Lowood, Ph.D.
Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections;
 Film & Media Collections
HRG, Green Library, 557 Escondido Mall
Stanford University Libraries
Stanford CA 94305-6004
650-723-4602; lowood at stanford.edu; http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood 
<http://www.stanford.edu/%7Elowood>
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From evilcowclone at gmail.com  Tue Apr 14 23:28:35 2009
From: evilcowclone at gmail.com (Devin Monnens)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 21:28:35 -0600
Subject: [game_preservation] E3
Message-ID: <b96706b70904142028g75245c01of76a2b7c5f0f6b35@mail.gmail.com>

Is anyone from the SIG going to E3? I just got word from Akinori Nakamura at
Ritsumeikan (which has a big game archive) that he will be attending in
June. My travel budget is kinda shot, so I won't be attending, but will
anyone from here be going?

-Devin

-- 
The sleep of Reason produces monsters.

"Until next time..."
Captain Commando
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From fcifaldi at gmail.com  Tue Apr 14 23:34:52 2009
From: fcifaldi at gmail.com (Frank Cifaldi)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 20:34:52 -0700
Subject: [game_preservation] E3
In-Reply-To: <b96706b70904142028g75245c01of76a2b7c5f0f6b35@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b96706b70904142028g75245c01of76a2b7c5f0f6b35@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d6ca04fb0904142034j1b3279bexa5b45bc507d216bf@mail.gmail.com>

I haven't made concrete plans, but I'm pretty sure I will be there one way
or another. Did you have a specific agenda in mind, or just some friendly
introductions?

On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 8:28 PM, Devin Monnens <evilcowclone at gmail.com>wrote:

> Is anyone from the SIG going to E3? I just got word from Akinori Nakamura
> at Ritsumeikan (which has a big game archive) that he will be attending in
> June. My travel budget is kinda shot, so I won't be attending, but will
> anyone from here be going?
>
> -Devin
>
> --
> The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
>
> "Until next time..."
> Captain Commando
>
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>
>
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From andrew at aarmstrong.org  Wed Apr 15 05:12:58 2009
From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 10:12:58 +0100
Subject: [game_preservation] E3
In-Reply-To: <d6ca04fb0904142034j1b3279bexa5b45bc507d216bf@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b96706b70904142028g75245c01of76a2b7c5f0f6b35@mail.gmail.com>
	<d6ca04fb0904142034j1b3279bexa5b45bc507d216bf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49E5A51A.9090600@aarmstrong.org>

If you can get any emails or contact information for that archive, I'd 
be in your debt Devin or Frank :)  I don't exactly speak or write 
Japanese, so I'm at a dead end trying to get information about that place :)

I am working on expanding the museum and archive information stored on 
our wiki beyond contact information, too, so it'd be nice to get someone 
from that organisation on this list or in contact with me.

Thanks!

Andrew

Frank Cifaldi wrote:
> I haven't made concrete plans, but I'm pretty sure I will be there one 
> way or another. Did you have a specific agenda in mind, or just some 
> friendly introductions?
>
> On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 8:28 PM, Devin Monnens <evilcowclone at gmail.com 
> <mailto:evilcowclone at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     Is anyone from the SIG going to E3? I just got word from Akinori
>     Nakamura at Ritsumeikan (which has a big game archive) that he
>     will be attending in June. My travel budget is kinda shot, so I
>     won't be attending, but will anyone from here be going?
>
>     -Devin
>
>     -- 
>     The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
>
>     "Until next time..."
>     Captain Commando
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     game_preservation mailing list
>     game_preservation at igda.org <mailto:game_preservation at igda.org>
>     http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>   
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From andrew at aarmstrong.org  Sat Apr 18 13:27:04 2009
From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 18:27:04 +0100
Subject: [game_preservation] Shadowbane Closing
Message-ID: <49EA0D68.2040303@aarmstrong.org>

FYI: http://chronicle.ubi.com/newspost.php?id=18535

Another MMO closing down, with very short notice (May 1st). I guess 
Henry and his team will be on board getting last minute video, good luck :)

Andrew

From evilcowclone at gmail.com  Sat Apr 18 19:38:44 2009
From: evilcowclone at gmail.com (Devin Monnens)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 17:38:44 -0600
Subject: [game_preservation] E3
In-Reply-To: <49E5A51A.9090600@aarmstrong.org>
References: <b96706b70904142028g75245c01of76a2b7c5f0f6b35@mail.gmail.com>
	<d6ca04fb0904142034j1b3279bexa5b45bc507d216bf@mail.gmail.com>
	<49E5A51A.9090600@aarmstrong.org>
Message-ID: <b96706b70904181638r19c35522s8cbcad345e424401@mail.gmail.com>

Akinori Nakamura's contact information is here:

"Akinori(Aki) Nakamura" <s1nakamuraa at gmail.com>,

He'll be heading to E3, so if you're going, please contact him! I'll let him
know I gave you guys this information.

Again, he is in charge of the archive at Ritsumeikan, which has a good
relationship with Nintendo. He speaks English very well, so the language
barrier is not that big an issue.

-Devin Monnens

On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 3:12 AM, Andrew Armstrong <andrew at aarmstrong.org>wrote:

>  If you can get any emails or contact information for that archive, I'd be
> in your debt Devin or Frank :)  I don't exactly speak or write Japanese, so
> I'm at a dead end trying to get information about that place :)
>
> I am working on expanding the museum and archive information stored on our
> wiki beyond contact information, too, so it'd be nice to get someone from
> that organisation on this list or in contact with me.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Andrew
>
> Frank Cifaldi wrote:
>
> I haven't made concrete plans, but I'm pretty sure I will be there one way
> or another. Did you have a specific agenda in mind, or just some friendly
> introductions?
>
> On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 8:28 PM, Devin Monnens <evilcowclone at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Is anyone from the SIG going to E3? I just got word from Akinori Nakamura
>> at Ritsumeikan (which has a big game archive) that he will be attending in
>> June. My travel budget is kinda shot, so I won't be attending, but will
>> anyone from here be going?
>>
>> -Devin
>>
>> --
>> The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
>>
>> "Until next time..."
>> Captain Commando
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> game_preservation mailing list
>> game_preservation at igda.org
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>>
>>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing listgame_preservation at igda.orghttp://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>
>


-- 
The sleep of Reason produces monsters.

"Until next time..."
Captain Commando
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From evilcowclone at gmail.com  Sun Apr 19 10:26:42 2009
From: evilcowclone at gmail.com (Devin Monnens)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 08:26:42 -0600
Subject: [game_preservation] Wired article on Georgia Stones
Message-ID: <b96706b70904190726h52390ebdt9d01c05d44bd807d@mail.gmail.com>

The latest issue of Wired has an article on the Georgia Stones, aka
'America's Stonehenge.' While this has nothing to do with videogames, and is
really just one big laughable conspiracy theory, it brings up some
interesting questions regarding preservation.

First, we have a monument that is constructed from massive blocks of granite
and incised with text in multiple languages. Thus you have a monumental
scale using durable material in addition to a Rosetta Stone structure.

Second, the monument also conveys information through the use of
astronomical alignments and astronomical information (which unfortunately
will be out of date a few thousand years hence as the axis shifts). So you
have information that is conveyed visually and that anyone who studies the
stars should be able to figure out fairly easily (astronomy seems to be one
of those universal traits of civilization, probably because you need it for
agriculture).

Third, the community is interested in maintaining it because it's a major
tourist attraction in an otherwise forgettable neck of the woods.

However, I don't agree with their placement of the stones. You would think
they would have put the stones a little bit higher above sea level and in a
more arid climate where they wouldn't decay as quickly over time (I recall
there being a seed repository somewhere in Scandinavia that takes this into
account). Boulder, Colorado might be a nice place for something like that,
or beyond that Nederland (Boulder is downstream from Nederland, hence why
everyone there is so crazy). Only then I suppose you'd have to worry about
glaciers. ;-)

In any event, if we're talking about longevity of information, I would say
that the Voyager spacecraft are probably going to be the longest-lasting
things that mankind ever makes, simply because you can make stuff last for a
long time in a vacuum. Whether or not anybody finds it is another story, but
speaking of crazies, I don't think we have to worry about an interstellar
gold rush like L. Ron Hubbard proclaimed.

-Devin Monnens

-- 
The sleep of Reason produces monsters.

"Until next time..."
Captain Commando
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From andrew at aarmstrong.org  Sun Apr 19 18:04:27 2009
From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 23:04:27 +0100
Subject: [game_preservation] E3
In-Reply-To: <b96706b70904181638r19c35522s8cbcad345e424401@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b96706b70904142028g75245c01of76a2b7c5f0f6b35@mail.gmail.com>	<d6ca04fb0904142034j1b3279bexa5b45bc507d216bf@mail.gmail.com>	<49E5A51A.9090600@aarmstrong.org>
	<b96706b70904181638r19c35522s8cbcad345e424401@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49EB9FEB.5090405@aarmstrong.org>

If Frank does go and talks to him, and lets him know about the SIG and 
the request for info, it'll be easier then me emailing him right now, 
unless you suggest I do so Devin :)

Thanks for the info,

Andrew

Devin Monnens wrote:
> Akinori Nakamura's contact information is here:
>
> "Akinori(Aki) Nakamura" <s1nakamuraa at gmail.com 
> <mailto:s1nakamuraa at gmail.com>>,
>
> He'll be heading to E3, so if you're going, please contact him! I'll 
> let him know I gave you guys this information.
>
> Again, he is in charge of the archive at Ritsumeikan, which has a good 
> relationship with Nintendo. He speaks English very well, so the 
> language barrier is not that big an issue.
>
> -Devin Monnens
>
> On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 3:12 AM, Andrew Armstrong 
> <andrew at aarmstrong.org <mailto:andrew at aarmstrong.org>> wrote:
>
>     If you can get any emails or contact information for that archive,
>     I'd be in your debt Devin or Frank :)  I don't exactly speak or
>     write Japanese, so I'm at a dead end trying to get information
>     about that place :)
>
>     I am working on expanding the museum and archive information
>     stored on our wiki beyond contact information, too, so it'd be
>     nice to get someone from that organisation on this list or in
>     contact with me.
>
>     Thanks!
>
>     Andrew
>
>     Frank Cifaldi wrote:
>>     I haven't made concrete plans, but I'm pretty sure I will be
>>     there one way or another. Did you have a specific agenda in mind,
>>     or just some friendly introductions?
>>
>>     On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 8:28 PM, Devin Monnens
>>     <evilcowclone at gmail.com <mailto:evilcowclone at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>         Is anyone from the SIG going to E3? I just got word from
>>         Akinori Nakamura at Ritsumeikan (which has a big game
>>         archive) that he will be attending in June. My travel budget
>>         is kinda shot, so I won't be attending, but will anyone from
>>         here be going?
>>
>>         -Devin
>>
>>         -- 
>>         The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
>>
>>         "Until next time..."
>>         Captain Commando
>>
>>         _______________________________________________
>>         game_preservation mailing list
>>         game_preservation at igda.org <mailto:game_preservation at igda.org>
>>         http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>>
>>
>>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>     _______________________________________________ game_preservation
>>     mailing list game_preservation at igda.org
>>     <mailto:game_preservation at igda.org>
>>     http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     game_preservation mailing list
>     game_preservation at igda.org <mailto:game_preservation at igda.org>
>     http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
>
> "Until next time..."
> Captain Commando
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>   
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From andrew at aarmstrong.org  Sun Apr 19 18:06:24 2009
From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 23:06:24 +0100
Subject: [game_preservation] Wired article on Georgia Stones
In-Reply-To: <b96706b70904190726h52390ebdt9d01c05d44bd807d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b96706b70904190726h52390ebdt9d01c05d44bd807d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49EBA060.3040805@aarmstrong.org>

Yes, the best way to preserve something, not that you'd be able to ever 
make use of it again, is to shove it in space. Nothing here will last 
forever, that's for sure (how morbid eh?).

Got a link to the article? I've no idea about these stones.

Andrew

Devin Monnens wrote:
> The latest issue of Wired has an article on the Georgia Stones, aka 
> 'America's Stonehenge.' While this has nothing to do with videogames, 
> and is really just one big laughable conspiracy theory, it brings up 
> some interesting questions regarding preservation.
>
> First, we have a monument that is constructed from massive blocks of 
> granite and incised with text in multiple languages. Thus you have a 
> monumental scale using durable material in addition to a Rosetta Stone 
> structure.
>
> Second, the monument also conveys information through the use of 
> astronomical alignments and astronomical information (which 
> unfortunately will be out of date a few thousand years hence as the 
> axis shifts). So you have information that is conveyed visually and 
> that anyone who studies the stars should be able to figure out fairly 
> easily (astronomy seems to be one of those universal traits of 
> civilization, probably because you need it for agriculture).
>
> Third, the community is interested in maintaining it because it's a 
> major tourist attraction in an otherwise forgettable neck of the woods.
>
> However, I don't agree with their placement of the stones. You would 
> think they would have put the stones a little bit higher above sea 
> level and in a more arid climate where they wouldn't decay as quickly 
> over time (I recall there being a seed repository somewhere in 
> Scandinavia that takes this into account). Boulder, Colorado might be 
> a nice place for something like that, or beyond that Nederland 
> (Boulder is downstream from Nederland, hence why everyone there is so 
> crazy). Only then I suppose you'd have to worry about glaciers. ;-)
>
> In any event, if we're talking about longevity of information, I would 
> say that the Voyager spacecraft are probably going to be the 
> longest-lasting things that mankind ever makes, simply because you can 
> make stuff last for a long time in a vacuum. Whether or not anybody 
> finds it is another story, but speaking of crazies, I don't think we 
> have to worry about an interstellar gold rush like L. Ron Hubbard 
> proclaimed.
>
> -Devin Monnens
>
> -- 
> The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
>
> "Until next time..."
> Captain Commando
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>   
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From fcifaldi at gmail.com  Sun Apr 19 18:10:49 2009
From: fcifaldi at gmail.com (Frank Cifaldi)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 15:10:49 -0700
Subject: [game_preservation] E3
In-Reply-To: <49EB9FEB.5090405@aarmstrong.org>
References: <b96706b70904142028g75245c01of76a2b7c5f0f6b35@mail.gmail.com>
	<d6ca04fb0904142034j1b3279bexa5b45bc507d216bf@mail.gmail.com>
	<49E5A51A.9090600@aarmstrong.org>
	<b96706b70904181638r19c35522s8cbcad345e424401@mail.gmail.com>
	<49EB9FEB.5090405@aarmstrong.org>
Message-ID: <d6ca04fb0904191510m6200b151w6de2e8d97b3d2690@mail.gmail.com>

I think you have a better idea of what the SIG needs than I do honestly, an
email might be better.

On Sun, Apr 19, 2009 at 3:04 PM, Andrew Armstrong <andrew at aarmstrong.org>wrote:

>  If Frank does go and talks to him, and lets him know about the SIG and the
> request for info, it'll be easier then me emailing him right now, unless you
> suggest I do so Devin :)
>
> Thanks for the info,
>
> Andrew
>
> Devin Monnens wrote:
>
> Akinori Nakamura's contact information is here:
>
> "Akinori(Aki) Nakamura" <s1nakamuraa at gmail.com>,
>
> He'll be heading to E3, so if you're going, please contact him! I'll let
> him know I gave you guys this information.
>
> Again, he is in charge of the archive at Ritsumeikan, which has a good
> relationship with Nintendo. He speaks English very well, so the language
> barrier is not that big an issue.
>
> -Devin Monnens
>
> On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 3:12 AM, Andrew Armstrong <andrew at aarmstrong.org>wrote:
>
>> If you can get any emails or contact information for that archive, I'd be
>> in your debt Devin or Frank :)  I don't exactly speak or write Japanese, so
>> I'm at a dead end trying to get information about that place :)
>>
>> I am working on expanding the museum and archive information stored on our
>> wiki beyond contact information, too, so it'd be nice to get someone from
>> that organisation on this list or in contact with me.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Andrew
>>
>> Frank Cifaldi wrote:
>>
>>  I haven't made concrete plans, but I'm pretty sure I will be there one
>> way or another. Did you have a specific agenda in mind, or just some
>> friendly introductions?
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 8:28 PM, Devin Monnens <evilcowclone at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Is anyone from the SIG going to E3? I just got word from Akinori Nakamura
>>> at Ritsumeikan (which has a big game archive) that he will be attending in
>>> June. My travel budget is kinda shot, so I won't be attending, but will
>>> anyone from here be going?
>>>
>>> -Devin
>>>
>>> --
>>> The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
>>>
>>> "Until next time..."
>>> Captain Commando
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> game_preservation mailing list
>>> game_preservation at igda.org
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>>>
>>>
>>  ------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> game_preservation mailing listgame_preservation at igda.orghttp://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> game_preservation mailing list
>> game_preservation at igda.org
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
>
> "Until next time..."
> Captain Commando
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing listgame_preservation at igda.orghttp://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>
>
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From andrew at aarmstrong.org  Sun Apr 19 18:15:43 2009
From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 23:15:43 +0100
Subject: [game_preservation] E3
In-Reply-To: <d6ca04fb0904191510m6200b151w6de2e8d97b3d2690@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b96706b70904142028g75245c01of76a2b7c5f0f6b35@mail.gmail.com>	<d6ca04fb0904142034j1b3279bexa5b45bc507d216bf@mail.gmail.com>	<49E5A51A.9090600@aarmstrong.org>	<b96706b70904181638r19c35522s8cbcad345e424401@mail.gmail.com>	<49EB9FEB.5090405@aarmstrong.org>
	<d6ca04fb0904191510m6200b151w6de2e8d97b3d2690@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49EBA28F.80101@aarmstrong.org>

Okay, I just didn't want to make first contact if you were talking to 
him personally (it's much easier to talk to someone in person :) ), but 
if you think that's best I'll go ahead.

Thanks,

Andrew

Frank Cifaldi wrote:
> I think you have a better idea of what the SIG needs than I do 
> honestly, an email might be better.
>
> On Sun, Apr 19, 2009 at 3:04 PM, Andrew Armstrong 
> <andrew at aarmstrong.org <mailto:andrew at aarmstrong.org>> wrote:
>
>     If Frank does go and talks to him, and lets him know about the SIG
>     and the request for info, it'll be easier then me emailing him
>     right now, unless you suggest I do so Devin :)
>
>     Thanks for the info,
>
>     Andrew
>
>     Devin Monnens wrote:
>>     Akinori Nakamura's contact information is here:
>>
>>     "Akinori(Aki) Nakamura" <s1nakamuraa at gmail.com
>>     <mailto:s1nakamuraa at gmail.com>>,
>>
>>     He'll be heading to E3, so if you're going, please contact him!
>>     I'll let him know I gave you guys this information.
>>
>>     Again, he is in charge of the archive at Ritsumeikan, which has a
>>     good relationship with Nintendo. He speaks English very well, so
>>     the language barrier is not that big an issue.
>>
>>     -Devin Monnens
>>
>>     On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 3:12 AM, Andrew Armstrong
>>     <andrew at aarmstrong.org <mailto:andrew at aarmstrong.org>> wrote:
>>
>>         If you can get any emails or contact information for that
>>         archive, I'd be in your debt Devin or Frank :)  I don't
>>         exactly speak or write Japanese, so I'm at a dead end trying
>>         to get information about that place :)
>>
>>         I am working on expanding the museum and archive information
>>         stored on our wiki beyond contact information, too, so it'd
>>         be nice to get someone from that organisation on this list or
>>         in contact with me.
>>
>>         Thanks!
>>
>>         Andrew
>>
>>         Frank Cifaldi wrote:
>>>         I haven't made concrete plans, but I'm pretty sure I will be
>>>         there one way or another. Did you have a specific agenda in
>>>         mind, or just some friendly introductions?
>>>
>>>         On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 8:28 PM, Devin Monnens
>>>         <evilcowclone at gmail.com <mailto:evilcowclone at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>             Is anyone from the SIG going to E3? I just got word from
>>>             Akinori Nakamura at Ritsumeikan (which has a big game
>>>             archive) that he will be attending in June. My travel
>>>             budget is kinda shot, so I won't be attending, but will
>>>             anyone from here be going?
>>>
>>>             -Devin
>>>
>>>             -- 
>>>             The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
>>>
>>>             "Until next time..."
>>>             Captain Commando
>>>
>>>             _______________________________________________
>>>             game_preservation mailing list
>>>             game_preservation at igda.org
>>>             <mailto:game_preservation at igda.org>
>>>             http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>>>
>>>
>>>         ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>         _______________________________________________
>>>         game_preservation mailing list game_preservation at igda.org
>>>         <mailto:game_preservation at igda.org>
>>>         http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>>
>>         _______________________________________________
>>         game_preservation mailing list
>>         game_preservation at igda.org <mailto:game_preservation at igda.org>
>>         http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>     -- 
>>     The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
>>
>>     "Until next time..."
>>     Captain Commando
>>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>     _______________________________________________ game_preservation
>>     mailing list game_preservation at igda.org
>>     <mailto:game_preservation at igda.org>
>>     http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     game_preservation mailing list
>     game_preservation at igda.org <mailto:game_preservation at igda.org>
>     http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>   
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From evilcowclone at gmail.com  Sun Apr 19 18:45:54 2009
From: evilcowclone at gmail.com (Devin Monnens)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 16:45:54 -0600
Subject: [game_preservation] E3
In-Reply-To: <49EBA28F.80101@aarmstrong.org>
References: <b96706b70904142028g75245c01of76a2b7c5f0f6b35@mail.gmail.com>
	<d6ca04fb0904142034j1b3279bexa5b45bc507d216bf@mail.gmail.com>
	<49E5A51A.9090600@aarmstrong.org>
	<b96706b70904181638r19c35522s8cbcad345e424401@mail.gmail.com>
	<49EB9FEB.5090405@aarmstrong.org>
	<d6ca04fb0904191510m6200b151w6de2e8d97b3d2690@mail.gmail.com>
	<49EBA28F.80101@aarmstrong.org>
Message-ID: <b96706b70904191545k8aa5592obef376b3452f73db@mail.gmail.com>

Aki should know about the SIG... I mean, he's visited Stanford and I thought
he was on the list. I don't recall if I sent him the link to the White Paper
though. It's been a busy month.

-Devin

On Sun, Apr 19, 2009 at 4:15 PM, Andrew Armstrong <andrew at aarmstrong.org>wrote:

>  Okay, I just didn't want to make first contact if you were talking to him
> personally (it's much easier to talk to someone in person :) ), but if you
> think that's best I'll go ahead.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Andrew
>
> Frank Cifaldi wrote:
>
> I think you have a better idea of what the SIG needs than I do honestly, an
> email might be better.
>
> On Sun, Apr 19, 2009 at 3:04 PM, Andrew Armstrong <andrew at aarmstrong.org>wrote:
>
>>  If Frank does go and talks to him, and lets him know about the SIG and
>> the request for info, it'll be easier then me emailing him right now, unless
>> you suggest I do so Devin :)
>>
>> Thanks for the info,
>>
>> Andrew
>>
>> Devin Monnens wrote:
>>
>>  Akinori Nakamura's contact information is here:
>>
>> "Akinori(Aki) Nakamura" <s1nakamuraa at gmail.com>,
>>
>> He'll be heading to E3, so if you're going, please contact him! I'll let
>> him know I gave you guys this information.
>>
>> Again, he is in charge of the archive at Ritsumeikan, which has a good
>> relationship with Nintendo. He speaks English very well, so the language
>> barrier is not that big an issue.
>>
>> -Devin Monnens
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 3:12 AM, Andrew Armstrong <andrew at aarmstrong.org>wrote:
>>
>>> If you can get any emails or contact information for that archive, I'd be
>>> in your debt Devin or Frank :)  I don't exactly speak or write Japanese, so
>>> I'm at a dead end trying to get information about that place :)
>>>
>>> I am working on expanding the museum and archive information stored on
>>> our wiki beyond contact information, too, so it'd be nice to get someone
>>> from that organisation on this list or in contact with me.
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>> Andrew
>>>
>>> Frank Cifaldi wrote:
>>>
>>>  I haven't made concrete plans, but I'm pretty sure I will be there one
>>> way or another. Did you have a specific agenda in mind, or just some
>>> friendly introductions?
>>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 8:28 PM, Devin Monnens <evilcowclone at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Is anyone from the SIG going to E3? I just got word from Akinori
>>>> Nakamura at Ritsumeikan (which has a big game archive) that he will be
>>>> attending in June. My travel budget is kinda shot, so I won't be attending,
>>>> but will anyone from here be going?
>>>>
>>>> -Devin
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
>>>>
>>>> "Until next time..."
>>>> Captain Commando
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> game_preservation mailing list
>>>> game_preservation at igda.org
>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>>>>
>>>>
>>>  ------------------------------
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> game_preservation mailing listgame_preservation at igda.orghttp://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> game_preservation mailing list
>>> game_preservation at igda.org
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
>>
>> "Until next time..."
>> Captain Commando
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> game_preservation mailing listgame_preservation at igda.orghttp://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> game_preservation mailing list
>> game_preservation at igda.org
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>>
>>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing listgame_preservation at igda.orghttp://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>
>


-- 
The sleep of Reason produces monsters.

"Until next time..."
Captain Commando
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From evilcowclone at gmail.com  Sun Apr 19 18:59:40 2009
From: evilcowclone at gmail.com (Devin Monnens)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 16:59:40 -0600
Subject: [game_preservation] Game Preservation on Facebook and LinkedIn
Message-ID: <b96706b70904191559u4bd53279t6e25ab42397baead@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I'm proposing we create an IGDA Game Preservation SIG group on both Facebook
and LinkedIn. I don't know what the official IGDA policy is towards this
stuff, so I'm CC'ing Jason a copy (sorry for the alternate e-mail, Jason).
This can be a first step towards an official game preservation network to
connect people all over the world who are interested in game preservation.
This might be much more effective than hiding in the Wiki because these
sites get much more traffic. We should actively promote this group in order
to inform game preservationists and digital preservationists out there about
our work. It should ultimately be our (ambitious) goal to have connections
through these groups from each library and archive in the world. Or close to
it.

Currently, the Video Arcade Preservation Society has a Facebook group. There
are also fan groups dedicated to a particular game (such as the Aliens
Versus Predator Preservation group). I haven't figured out what their point
is. I've yet to dig through LinkedIn to see if there are other game
preservation groups on there.

-Devin Monnens

-- 
The sleep of Reason produces monsters.

"Until next time..."
Captain Commando
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From andrew at aarmstrong.org  Sun Apr 19 19:14:40 2009
From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 00:14:40 +0100
Subject: [game_preservation] Game Preservation on Facebook and LinkedIn
In-Reply-To: <b96706b70904191559u4bd53279t6e25ab42397baead@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b96706b70904191559u4bd53279t6e25ab42397baead@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49EBB060.2070404@aarmstrong.org>

Jason doesn't work for the IGDA anymore, so I don't know if that address 
even works now - it might be worth checking with Joe Sapp though - 
joda at igda.org, although I doubt there'd any problems with it in any case 
- I see IGDA groups in those places already.

If Henry is happy with it, sure we can create some groups. I am not sure 
who'd want to administrate them though - Melanie perhaps, since she runs 
the mailing list?

Active promotion is a good idea. Until the new site is put in place, my 
PR efforts are basically going to be near nil, I've been pretty lax to 
be honest promoting the white paper, we should get some projects going 
to get people involved though (I'm still going to post on them next 
week), and a new site would allow me to post up better pages of 
information, pictures in news posts (finally), and other things like 
creating forums for each project (which can be kept private), and other 
things.

One thing I do not really want to do is have Facebook or LinkedIn in any 
way be a form of communication for the group - I don't want the workload 
of cross-location discussion, which is why I've abandoned the IGDA 
forums for now, and I doubt I'd actively cross-post news. People who 
want to be active members need to really be in one place, so getting 
communication between groups is better done in one location - the IGDA 
location :) Since it costs nothing to get a free account, there is no 
reason to not do so.

I actually want to investigate extending our "membership" to other 
people, I'll post a quick new thread on this.

Andrew

Devin Monnens wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I'm proposing we create an IGDA Game Preservation SIG group on both 
> Facebook and LinkedIn. I don't know what the official IGDA policy is 
> towards this stuff, so I'm CC'ing Jason a copy (sorry for the 
> alternate e-mail, Jason). This can be a first step towards an official 
> game preservation network to connect people all over the world who are 
> interested in game preservation. This might be much more effective 
> than hiding in the Wiki because these sites get much more traffic. We 
> should actively promote this group in order to inform game 
> preservationists and digital preservationists out there about our 
> work. It should ultimately be our (ambitious) goal to have connections 
> through these groups from each library and archive in the world. Or 
> close to it.
>
> Currently, the Video Arcade Preservation Society has a Facebook group. 
> There are also fan groups dedicated to a particular game (such as the 
> Aliens Versus Predator Preservation group). I haven't figured out what 
> their point is. I've yet to dig through LinkedIn to see if there are 
> other game preservation groups on there.
>
> -Devin Monnens
>
> -- 
> The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
>
> "Until next time..."
> Captain Commando
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>   
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From andrew at aarmstrong.org  Sun Apr 19 19:32:02 2009
From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 00:32:02 +0100
Subject: [game_preservation] Our Membership
Message-ID: <49EBB472.2000902@aarmstrong.org>

Hey all,

 From Devin's post, I meant to get around to discussing at some point if 
it would be worth looking at how to get different members - I'm not sure 
what our current breakdown is, actually, which makes it hard to see who 
we've already attracted, and for what reasons!

In any case, should we look to getting other interested people involved? 
And why would we want to? (If we even do...). One thing is that there is 
no international group dedicated to videogame (or in fact, computer) 
preservation, we could try and fill that gap.

There are, as far as I'm aware, few people from these groups:
- Game collectors, enthusiasts
- Game emulator creators
- Game historians
- Game history press
- Librarians, other general archivists

(I'd say we do have game preservationists, archivists, and some 
historians/developers on here :) ).

We're relegated, not necessarily in a bad way, to a small niche of 
computer history. I doubt general computer historians are that 
interested in joining for that reason.

So, anyone think expanding membership to these groups would be a good 
idea? Any opinions?

I'll be starting to gather information on the areas of preservation - 
emulation, collectors, museums, and also seeing if people are interested 
in joining the SIG, but I'd not want to start inviting people if they're 
not welcome, or if in fact we'll have nothing to do with them.

Thanks,

Andrew

From mike at multimedia.cx  Mon Apr 20 02:56:08 2009
From: mike at multimedia.cx (Mike Melanson)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 23:56:08 -0700
Subject: [game_preservation] Our Membership
In-Reply-To: <49EBB472.2000902@aarmstrong.org>
References: <49EBB472.2000902@aarmstrong.org>
Message-ID: <49EC1C88.2060205@multimedia.cx>

Andrew Armstrong wrote:
> There are, as far as I'm aware, few people from these groups:
> - Game collectors, enthusiasts
> - Game emulator creators
> - Game historians
> - Game history press
> - Librarians, other general archivists

I think I fall into the first 3 categories you listed. I'm sort of an 
eccentric game collector as I love to focus on obscure stuff that no one 
else could possibly care about. I'm a game historian as evidenced by my 
contributions to MobyGames.com. And I'm intensely interested in 
emulation as well, primarily from a technical perspective. In fact, I 
used to maintain an NES emulator (tuxnes.sf.net).

Just so you know where I'm coming from.

-- 
     -Mike Melanson

From andrew at aarmstrong.org  Mon Apr 20 05:59:17 2009
From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 10:59:17 +0100
Subject: [game_preservation] Our Membership
In-Reply-To: <49EC1C88.2060205@multimedia.cx>
References: <49EBB472.2000902@aarmstrong.org> <49EC1C88.2060205@multimedia.cx>
Message-ID: <49EC4775.3070405@aarmstrong.org>

Yep, you are one of those few, certainly to cover multiple groups. Any 
thoughts on what more people like you (DB contributors, collectors, 
emulators :) ) would get out of the SIG, or why they might join? If 
there is any point in joining that is...

I personally don't have a clue, since I basically currently only fall 
into the historians, and partially into the archivists categories, and 
most of my work on projects is to improve information about these areas :)

Andrew

Mike Melanson wrote:
> Andrew Armstrong wrote:
>> There are, as far as I'm aware, few people from these groups:
>> - Game collectors, enthusiasts
>> - Game emulator creators
>> - Game historians
>> - Game history press
>> - Librarians, other general archivists
>
> I think I fall into the first 3 categories you listed. I'm sort of an 
> eccentric game collector as I love to focus on obscure stuff that no 
> one else could possibly care about. I'm a game historian as evidenced 
> by my contributions to MobyGames.com. And I'm intensely interested in 
> emulation as well, primarily from a technical perspective. In fact, I 
> used to maintain an NES emulator (tuxnes.sf.net).
>
> Just so you know where I'm coming from.
>

From dmonnens at gmail.com  Mon Apr 20 09:08:47 2009
From: dmonnens at gmail.com (Devin Monnens)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 07:08:47 -0600
Subject: [game_preservation] Our Membership
In-Reply-To: <49EC4775.3070405@aarmstrong.org>
References: <49EBB472.2000902@aarmstrong.org> <49EC1C88.2060205@multimedia.cx>
	<49EC4775.3070405@aarmstrong.org>
Message-ID: <9d1cf2d50904200608p75ef26b3v3d56572f29430012@mail.gmail.com>

Joseph Sapp gave us the go-ahead. Doesn't matter so long as it's a SIG
function and not an official IGDA thing. So we can get this thing started
over the next week or so.

-Devin

On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 3:59 AM, Andrew Armstrong <andrew at aarmstrong.org>wrote:

> Yep, you are one of those few, certainly to cover multiple groups. Any
> thoughts on what more people like you (DB contributors, collectors,
> emulators :) ) would get out of the SIG, or why they might join? If there is
> any point in joining that is...
>
> I personally don't have a clue, since I basically currently only fall into
> the historians, and partially into the archivists categories, and most of my
> work on projects is to improve information about these areas :)
>
> Andrew
>
> Mike Melanson wrote:
>
>> Andrew Armstrong wrote:
>>
>>> There are, as far as I'm aware, few people from these groups:
>>> - Game collectors, enthusiasts
>>> - Game emulator creators
>>> - Game historians
>>> - Game history press
>>> - Librarians, other general archivists
>>>
>>
>> I think I fall into the first 3 categories you listed. I'm sort of an
>> eccentric game collector as I love to focus on obscure stuff that no one
>> else could possibly care about. I'm a game historian as evidenced by my
>> contributions to MobyGames.com. And I'm intensely interested in emulation as
>> well, primarily from a technical perspective. In fact, I used to maintain an
>> NES emulator (tuxnes.sf.net).
>>
>> Just so you know where I'm coming from.
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>



-- 
Devin Monnens
www.deserthat.com

The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
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From dmonnens at gmail.com  Mon Apr 20 20:56:56 2009
From: dmonnens at gmail.com (Devin Monnens)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 18:56:56 -0600
Subject: [game_preservation] Facebook and LinkedIn groups added
Message-ID: <9d1cf2d50904201756w1e560672g30388a08c168c3a9@mail.gmail.com>

I created some rudimentary pages for the IGDA Game Preservation SIG. Henry
and Andrew are both admins now on the Facebook group and the LinkedIn group
will have more admins after they join :)

I suppose at this point we should be looking at recommendations for
materials to go on both groups (this can also include logo updates as well).

Facebook<http://www.facebook.com/pages/IGDA-Game-Preservation-SIG/73689808121?ref=nf#/pages/IGDA-Game-Preservation-SIG/73689808121>
LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/groups?home=&gid=1911626&trk=anet_ug_hm>

-Devin Monnens

-- 
Devin Monnens
www.deserthat.com

The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
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From donahrm at gmail.com  Mon Apr 20 21:40:24 2009
From: donahrm at gmail.com (Rachel "Sheepy" Donahue)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 21:40:24 -0400
Subject: [game_preservation] Facebook and LinkedIn groups added
In-Reply-To: <9d1cf2d50904201756w1e560672g30388a08c168c3a9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9d1cf2d50904201756w1e560672g30388a08c168c3a9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <op.uspqxmjffmh8gn@sherpa.westell.com>

Small difference, but on Facebook you made a Page, not a Group. The main  
difference is that group pages allow forums (sorta) and photo albums.


On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 20:56:56 -0400, Devin Monnens <dmonnens at gmail.com>  
wrote:

> I created some rudimentary pages for the IGDA Game Preservation SIG.  
> Henry
> and Andrew are both admins now on the Facebook group and the LinkedIn  
> group
> will have more admins after they join :)
>
> I suppose at this point we should be looking at recommendations for
> materials to go on both groups (this can also include logo updates as  
> well).
>
> Facebook<http://www.facebook.com/pages/IGDA-Game-Preservation-SIG/73689808121?ref=nf#/pages/IGDA-Game-Preservation-SIG/73689808121>
> LinkedIn  
> <http://www.linkedin.com/groups?home=&gid=1911626&trk=anet_ug_hm>
>
> -Devin Monnens
>



-- 
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

From melanie.swalwell at flinders.edu.au  Tue Apr 21 01:52:00 2009
From: melanie.swalwell at flinders.edu.au (Melanie Swalwell)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 15:52:00 +1000
Subject: [game_preservation] Game Preservation on Facebook and LinkedIn
In-Reply-To: <49EBB060.2070404@aarmstrong.org>
References: <b96706b70904191559u4bd53279t6e25ab42397baead@mail.gmail.com>
	<49EBB060.2070404@aarmstrong.org>
Message-ID: <49ED5F00.1050706@flinders.edu.au>

Responding belatedly to this as I've been away doing some library 
research (on early games, of course!).   This sounds like a good idea, 
Devin, if there is someone who is keen and has the time to head it up 
(I'm not volunteering).  I can see it would provide useful publicity for 
game preservation and/or enable a broad group of people to register 
their recognition of the need for games to be preserved.  Personally, 
though, I like the humble listserv for SIG communications.

Melanie

-- 
Dr Melanie Swalwell
Senior Lecturer, Screen and Media
& Course Coordinator, B. Media
Flinders University
GPO Box 2100
Adelaide SA 5001

125B Humanities Bldg

Ph: +61 8 8201 2619
Fax: +61 8 8201 3635

melanie.swalwell at flinders.edu.au


From dmonnens at gmail.com  Tue Apr 21 08:50:26 2009
From: dmonnens at gmail.com (Devin Monnens)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 06:50:26 -0600
Subject: [game_preservation] Game Preservation on Facebook and LinkedIn
In-Reply-To: <49ED5F00.1050706@flinders.edu.au>
References: <b96706b70904191559u4bd53279t6e25ab42397baead@mail.gmail.com>
	<49EBB060.2070404@aarmstrong.org> <49ED5F00.1050706@flinders.edu.au>
Message-ID: <9d1cf2d50904210550y5a86b3f0s9ecb79b46314d8ef@mail.gmail.com>

Hmm... That's true. Major announcements could find their way to the
networking pages. Otherwise, people find it difficult to check multiple
websites regularly. This is a problem because LinkedIn and Facebook can't
mirror their postings.

So right now perhaps it is more of an experiment designed to promote
membership.

-Devin Monnens

On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 11:52 PM, Melanie Swalwell <
melanie.swalwell at flinders.edu.au> wrote:

> Responding belatedly to this as I've been away doing some library research
> (on early games, of course!).   This sounds like a good idea, Devin, if
> there is someone who is keen and has the time to head it up (I'm not
> volunteering).  I can see it would provide useful publicity for game
> preservation and/or enable a broad group of people to register their
> recognition of the need for games to be preserved.  Personally, though, I
> like the humble listserv for SIG communications.
>
> Melanie
>
> --
> Dr Melanie Swalwell
> Senior Lecturer, Screen and Media
> & Course Coordinator, B. Media
> Flinders University
> GPO Box 2100
> Adelaide SA 5001
>
> 125B Humanities Bldg
>
> Ph: +61 8 8201 2619
> Fax: +61 8 8201 3635
>
> melanie.swalwell at flinders.edu.au
>
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>



-- 
Devin Monnens
www.deserthat.com

The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
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From andrew at aarmstrong.org  Tue Apr 21 09:15:46 2009
From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 14:15:46 +0100
Subject: [game_preservation] Game Preservation on Facebook and LinkedIn
In-Reply-To: <9d1cf2d50904210550y5a86b3f0s9ecb79b46314d8ef@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b96706b70904191559u4bd53279t6e25ab42397baead@mail.gmail.com>	<49EBB060.2070404@aarmstrong.org>
	<49ED5F00.1050706@flinders.edu.au>
	<9d1cf2d50904210550y5a86b3f0s9ecb79b46314d8ef@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49EDC702.8040606@aarmstrong.org>

Anyone got any more sites to do this on? If not, I'll post it as news on 
our blog.

Andrew

Devin Monnens wrote:
> Hmm... That's true. Major announcements could find their way to the 
> networking pages. Otherwise, people find it difficult to check 
> multiple websites regularly. This is a problem because LinkedIn and 
> Facebook can't mirror their postings.
>
> So right now perhaps it is more of an experiment designed to promote 
> membership.
>
> -Devin Monnens
>
> On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 11:52 PM, Melanie Swalwell 
> <melanie.swalwell at flinders.edu.au 
> <mailto:melanie.swalwell at flinders.edu.au>> wrote:
>
>     Responding belatedly to this as I've been away doing some library
>     research (on early games, of course!).   This sounds like a good
>     idea, Devin, if there is someone who is keen and has the time to
>     head it up (I'm not volunteering).  I can see it would provide
>     useful publicity for game preservation and/or enable a broad group
>     of people to register their recognition of the need for games to
>     be preserved.  Personally, though, I like the humble listserv for
>     SIG communications.
>
>     Melanie
>
>     -- 
>     Dr Melanie Swalwell
>     Senior Lecturer, Screen and Media
>     & Course Coordinator, B. Media
>     Flinders University
>     GPO Box 2100
>     Adelaide SA 5001
>
>     125B Humanities Bldg
>
>     Ph: +61 8 8201 2619
>     Fax: +61 8 8201 3635
>
>     melanie.swalwell at flinders.edu.au
>     <mailto:melanie.swalwell at flinders.edu.au>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     game_preservation mailing list
>     game_preservation at igda.org <mailto:game_preservation at igda.org>
>     http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Devin Monnens
> www.deserthat.com <http://www.deserthat.com>
>
> The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>   
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From andrew at aarmstrong.org  Tue Apr 21 10:24:48 2009
From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 15:24:48 +0100
Subject: [game_preservation] Our Membership
In-Reply-To: <49EC4775.3070405@aarmstrong.org>
References: <49EBB472.2000902@aarmstrong.org> <49EC1C88.2060205@multimedia.cx>
	<49EC4775.3070405@aarmstrong.org>
Message-ID: <49EDD730.80900@aarmstrong.org>

I forgot to add, those identifiers are a bit board. "Game historians" 
include, of course, Mobygame contributors, book writers, people running 
websites, and even possibly historical game blogs (who produce more news 
then olds, ho ho ho)

I'll probably get on with contacting different groups and outreaching - 
while doing so I'll ask them what they'd want from a gathering of such 
dedicated people. I realise this is the IG*D*A, and these won't be all 
developers, so we'll have to get on getting more developers involved at 
some point, at least contributing their history :)

Andrew

Andrew Armstrong wrote:
> Yep, you are one of those few, certainly to cover multiple groups. Any 
> thoughts on what more people like you (DB contributors, collectors, 
> emulators :) ) would get out of the SIG, or why they might join? If 
> there is any point in joining that is...
>
> I personally don't have a clue, since I basically currently only fall 
> into the historians, and partially into the archivists categories, and 
> most of my work on projects is to improve information about these 
> areas :)
>
> Andrew
>
> Mike Melanson wrote:
>> Andrew Armstrong wrote:
>>> There are, as far as I'm aware, few people from these groups:
>>> - Game collectors, enthusiasts
>>> - Game emulator creators
>>> - Game historians
>>> - Game history press
>>> - Librarians, other general archivists
>>
>> I think I fall into the first 3 categories you listed. I'm sort of an 
>> eccentric game collector as I love to focus on obscure stuff that no 
>> one else could possibly care about. I'm a game historian as evidenced 
>> by my contributions to MobyGames.com. And I'm intensely interested in 
>> emulation as well, primarily from a technical perspective. In fact, I 
>> used to maintain an NES emulator (tuxnes.sf.net).
>>
>> Just so you know where I'm coming from.
>>
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation

From dmonnens at gmail.com  Tue Apr 21 11:36:18 2009
From: dmonnens at gmail.com (Devin Monnens)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 09:36:18 -0600
Subject: [game_preservation] Game Preservation on Facebook and LinkedIn
In-Reply-To: <49EDC702.8040606@aarmstrong.org>
References: <b96706b70904191559u4bd53279t6e25ab42397baead@mail.gmail.com>
	<49EBB060.2070404@aarmstrong.org> <49ED5F00.1050706@flinders.edu.au>
	<9d1cf2d50904210550y5a86b3f0s9ecb79b46314d8ef@mail.gmail.com>
	<49EDC702.8040606@aarmstrong.org>
Message-ID: <9d1cf2d50904210836i6a191c7ah276faf16d2ff3717@mail.gmail.com>

Ah. Well Rachael says that we have a page not a group on LinkedIn. So I
suppose I should try and fix that today.
-Devin

On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 7:15 AM, Andrew Armstrong <andrew at aarmstrong.org>wrote:

>  Anyone got any more sites to do this on? If not, I'll post it as news on
> our blog.
>
> Andrew
>
> Devin Monnens wrote:
>
> Hmm... That's true. Major announcements could find their way to the
> networking pages. Otherwise, people find it difficult to check multiple
> websites regularly. This is a problem because LinkedIn and Facebook can't
> mirror their postings.
>
> So right now perhaps it is more of an experiment designed to promote
> membership.
>
> -Devin Monnens
>
> On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 11:52 PM, Melanie Swalwell <
> melanie.swalwell at flinders.edu.au> wrote:
>
>> Responding belatedly to this as I've been away doing some library research
>> (on early games, of course!).   This sounds like a good idea, Devin, if
>> there is someone who is keen and has the time to head it up (I'm not
>> volunteering).  I can see it would provide useful publicity for game
>> preservation and/or enable a broad group of people to register their
>> recognition of the need for games to be preserved.  Personally, though, I
>> like the humble listserv for SIG communications.
>>
>> Melanie
>>
>> --
>> Dr Melanie Swalwell
>> Senior Lecturer, Screen and Media
>> & Course Coordinator, B. Media
>> Flinders University
>> GPO Box 2100
>> Adelaide SA 5001
>>
>> 125B Humanities Bldg
>>
>> Ph: +61 8 8201 2619
>> Fax: +61 8 8201 3635
>>
>> melanie.swalwell at flinders.edu.au
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> game_preservation mailing list
>> game_preservation at igda.org
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Devin Monnens
> www.deserthat.com
>
> The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
>
> ------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing listgame_preservation at igda.orghttp://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>
>


-- 
Devin Monnens
www.deserthat.com

The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
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From andrew at aarmstrong.org  Tue Apr 21 11:38:11 2009
From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 16:38:11 +0100
Subject: [game_preservation] Game Preservation on Facebook and LinkedIn
In-Reply-To: <9d1cf2d50904210836i6a191c7ah276faf16d2ff3717@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b96706b70904191559u4bd53279t6e25ab42397baead@mail.gmail.com>	<49EBB060.2070404@aarmstrong.org>
	<49ED5F00.1050706@flinders.edu.au>	<9d1cf2d50904210550y5a86b3f0s9ecb79b46314d8ef@mail.gmail.com>	<49EDC702.8040606@aarmstrong.org>
	<9d1cf2d50904210836i6a191c7ah276faf16d2ff3717@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49EDE863.8010308@aarmstrong.org>

Okay, I'll await your final touches :)

Andrew

Devin Monnens wrote:
> Ah. Well Rachael says that we have a page not a group on LinkedIn. So 
> I suppose I should try and fix that today.
>
> -Devin
>
> On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 7:15 AM, Andrew Armstrong 
> <andrew at aarmstrong.org <mailto:andrew at aarmstrong.org>> wrote:
>
>     Anyone got any more sites to do this on? If not, I'll post it as
>     news on our blog.
>
>     Andrew
>
>     Devin Monnens wrote:
>>     Hmm... That's true. Major announcements could find their way to
>>     the networking pages. Otherwise, people find it difficult to
>>     check multiple websites regularly. This is a problem because
>>     LinkedIn and Facebook can't mirror their postings.
>>
>>     So right now perhaps it is more of an experiment designed to
>>     promote membership.
>>
>>     -Devin Monnens
>>
>>     On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 11:52 PM, Melanie Swalwell
>>     <melanie.swalwell at flinders.edu.au
>>     <mailto:melanie.swalwell at flinders.edu.au>> wrote:
>>
>>         Responding belatedly to this as I've been away doing some
>>         library research (on early games, of course!).   This sounds
>>         like a good idea, Devin, if there is someone who is keen and
>>         has the time to head it up (I'm not volunteering).  I can see
>>         it would provide useful publicity for game preservation
>>         and/or enable a broad group of people to register their
>>         recognition of the need for games to be preserved.
>>          Personally, though, I like the humble listserv for SIG
>>         communications.
>>
>>         Melanie
>>
>>         -- 
>>         Dr Melanie Swalwell
>>         Senior Lecturer, Screen and Media
>>         & Course Coordinator, B. Media
>>         Flinders University
>>         GPO Box 2100
>>         Adelaide SA 5001
>>
>>         125B Humanities Bldg
>>
>>         Ph: +61 8 8201 2619
>>         Fax: +61 8 8201 3635
>>
>>         melanie.swalwell at flinders.edu.au
>>         <mailto:melanie.swalwell at flinders.edu.au>
>>
>>         _______________________________________________
>>         game_preservation mailing list
>>         game_preservation at igda.org <mailto:game_preservation at igda.org>
>>         http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>     -- 
>>     Devin Monnens
>>     www.deserthat.com <http://www.deserthat.com>
>>
>>     The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
>>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>     _______________________________________________ game_preservation
>>     mailing list game_preservation at igda.org
>>     <mailto:game_preservation at igda.org>
>>     http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     game_preservation mailing list
>     game_preservation at igda.org <mailto:game_preservation at igda.org>
>     http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Devin Monnens
> www.deserthat.com <http://www.deserthat.com>
>
> The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>   
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From dmonnens at gmail.com  Thu Apr 23 22:32:47 2009
From: dmonnens at gmail.com (Devin Monnens)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 20:32:47 -0600
Subject: [game_preservation] Geocities goes under...was anything worth
	archiving?
Message-ID: <9d1cf2d50904231932x77dcb6fbj3a017af78e34f4a3@mail.gmail.com>

Well, Geocities has finally gone under. The true question at this point is:

Was there anything really worth saving?

http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/04/23/2339224&from=rss

-Devin Monnens

-- 
Devin Monnens
www.deserthat.com

The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
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From stuart.feldhamer at gmail.com  Fri Apr 24 00:14:32 2009
From: stuart.feldhamer at gmail.com (Stuart Feldhamer)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 00:14:32 -0400
Subject: [game_preservation] Geocities goes under...was anything
	worth	archiving?
In-Reply-To: <9d1cf2d50904231932x77dcb6fbj3a017af78e34f4a3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9d1cf2d50904231932x77dcb6fbj3a017af78e34f4a3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49f13ca9.15025a0a.655b.013b@mx.google.com>

How ironic, Yahoo pulled the plug on Geocities because it was no longer
relevant.

 

Stuart

 

From: game_preservation-bounces at igda.org
[mailto:game_preservation-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Devin Monnens
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 10:33 PM
To: IGDA Game Preservation SIG
Subject: [game_preservation] Geocities goes under...was anything worth
archiving?

 

Well, Geocities has finally gone under. The true question at this point is: 

Was there anything really worth saving?

http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/04/23/2339224
<http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/04/23/2339224&from=rss>
&from=rss

-Devin Monnens

-- 
Devin Monnens
www.deserthat.com

The sleep of Reason produces monsters.

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From fcifaldi at gmail.com  Fri Apr 24 00:34:05 2009
From: fcifaldi at gmail.com (Frank Cifaldi)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 21:34:05 -0700
Subject: [game_preservation] Geocities goes under...was anything worth
	archiving?
In-Reply-To: <9d1cf2d50904231932x77dcb6fbj3a017af78e34f4a3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9d1cf2d50904231932x77dcb6fbj3a017af78e34f4a3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d6ca04fb0904232134g52704cd9h4eb0f4c1cfd8e9@mail.gmail.com>

Sure. Lots of veteran game developers set up little personal sites on
Geocities back in the late 90s/early 2000s, I would think that sort of thing
is worth saving. I've come across quite a few in my research, and can tell
you that sometimes the only public source of information on an unfinished
game project is in personal portfolios like those.

On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 7:32 PM, Devin Monnens <dmonnens at gmail.com> wrote:

> Well, Geocities has finally gone under. The true question at this point is:
>
>
> Was there anything really worth saving?
>
> http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/04/23/2339224&from=rss
>
> -Devin Monnens
>
> --
> Devin Monnens
> www.deserthat.com
>
> The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
>
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>
>
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From andrew at aarmstrong.org  Fri Apr 24 04:17:58 2009
From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 09:17:58 +0100
Subject: [game_preservation] Geocities goes under...was anything worth
 archiving?
In-Reply-To: <d6ca04fb0904232134g52704cd9h4eb0f4c1cfd8e9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9d1cf2d50904231932x77dcb6fbj3a017af78e34f4a3@mail.gmail.com>
	<d6ca04fb0904232134g52704cd9h4eb0f4c1cfd8e9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49F175B6.60307@aarmstrong.org>

Not just that, but fansites of games, especially more obscure ones, seem 
to only be on hosted sites like Geocities. They weren't all bad sites.

Hmm, at least I hope the IA web crawler has a lot of the sites 
downloaded over that time period. I doubt Yahoo will be willing to 
partner and provide some real access to those old sites, sadly.

Andrew

Frank Cifaldi wrote:
> Sure. Lots of veteran game developers set up little personal sites on 
> Geocities back in the late 90s/early 2000s, I would think that sort of 
> thing is worth saving. I've come across quite a few in my research, 
> and can tell you that sometimes the only public source of information 
> on an unfinished game project is in personal portfolios like those.
>
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 7:32 PM, Devin Monnens <dmonnens at gmail.com 
> <mailto:dmonnens at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     Well, Geocities has finally gone under. The true question at this
>     point is:
>
>     Was there anything really worth saving?
>
>     http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/04/23/2339224&from=rss
>     <http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/04/23/2339224&from=rss>
>
>     -Devin Monnens
>
>     -- 
>     Devin Monnens
>     www.deserthat.com <http://www.deserthat.com>
>
>     The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     game_preservation mailing list
>     game_preservation at igda.org <mailto:game_preservation at igda.org>
>     http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>   
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From donahrm at gmail.com  Sun Apr 26 09:07:16 2009
From: donahrm at gmail.com (Rachel Donahue)
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 09:07:16 -0400
Subject: [game_preservation] FDG2009
Message-ID: <f2d80c160904260607g52f4e63dy4ca5c596e1a36024@mail.gmail.com>

Anyone from the sig attending? I don't know a soul and it would be
lovely to meet up if you are!

On 2/6/09, Rachel Donahue <donahrm at gmail.com> wrote:
> Andrew --
> If my survey generates any "yes I'm interested in follow up questions"
> responses, I'd be happy to conduct an oral history with them. Given my
> piddling grad student budget it will probably have to be by phone, but I
> can
> see if anyone would be willing to have the interview recorded and podcast.
>
> On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 2:34 PM, Andrew Armstrong
> <andrew at aarmstrong.org>wrote:
>
>>  I left this open but no one has replied. Another bump, we do have some
>> new
>> members.
>>
>> This project is, really, a bit too practical for the SIG to do "by
>> volunteer work" as all SIG's operate (with most of our work going on
>> online). With no money, and no one seeking out sponsorship, donations, or
>> funding, we don't have any equipment (nevermind manpower and transport)
>> to
>> do this actively, even though it is an excellent idea, and we'd likely be
>> able to find interested developers to participate.
>>
>> So, perhaps it can help by cataloguing other efforts in the area,
>> preserving them on the Internet Archive, and helping logistically and
>> with
>> advertising the service. If anyone also did want to do histories through
>> us
>> somehow, having the final result freely available online or in an archive
>> would be invaluable. This is tough to setup without people who are in
>> industry available to be "on call" or to sign up, and without people who
>> want to do the recordings in the first place! It's a lot of work on both
>> sides (finding time for both, and possibly major travelling, preparing
>> and
>> researching, equipment, post-production...)
>>
>> Therefore, this project is going no where with no active interest. I
>> personally can put forward weekend time and possibly take days off to
>> record
>> things, but since I have no videocamera I can't help directly. I would
>> like
>> to investigate setting up a signup form for both sides - the interviewers
>> and interviewees so we can get a good list of people (and their location,
>> what they did) to do interviews with, and who to send, and get people
>> talking this way. There is a possibility that this is better done
>> informally, however, or maybe through the new IGDA site which is mainly
>> forum based (with mailing lists possible, just really being forum posts
>> being sent to accounts, with replies being allowed), and thus developers
>> would easily be able to get involved with the SIG and discuss it on
>> forums
>> or via. PM's/email.
>>
>> There was some possible interest from Dean O'Donnell from WPI, who is
>> running an oral histories project with student help. Other then this I
>> know
>> of no proper active oral histories project, save Jason Scott's GET LAMP
>> documentary, which is basically edited oral histories (which I hope he
>> puts
>> online in full :) ).
>>
>> Andrew
>>
>> Andrew Armstrong wrote:
>>
>> This is coming on from our previous discussion over spring cleaning the
>> SIG.
>>
>> *Oral Histories*
>> Status: *On Hold*
>> Currently lead by: *No one. *
>> Short description: *Interviews with industry people related to their past
>> works. Brought up at GDC 2008, but currently has no assigned project
>> lead.
>> *
>>
>> Concerns raised previously:
>> - Aims of the histories, contents, etc.
>> - What to ask (I brought this up before)
>> - Who can do them
>>
>> Someone to work on this or start organising a team of people would be
>> good.
>> Logistically this is the hardest project to manage, and technically we
>> have
>> no resources to fund it at all, meaning it requires heavy volunteer work.
>>
>> People suggesting information, examples of existing histories done, ways
>> to
>> get this going, and so forth are welcome. Basically bring whatever you
>> like
>> to the table, it's an open discussion.
>>
>> Andrew
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> game_preservation mailing
>> listgame_preservation at igda.orghttp://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> game_preservation mailing list
>> game_preservation at igda.org
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>>
>>
>


-- 


-------
 Rachel Donahue
 Graduate Assistant
 Maryland Institute for Technology in the Humanities
 University of Maryland, College Park
 College Park, MD

From dmonnens at gmail.com  Sun Apr 26 09:15:47 2009
From: dmonnens at gmail.com (Devin Monnens)
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 07:15:47 -0600
Subject: [game_preservation] FDG2009
In-Reply-To: <f2d80c160904260607g52f4e63dy4ca5c596e1a36024@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f2d80c160904260607g52f4e63dy4ca5c596e1a36024@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9d1cf2d50904260615g76af4e8fk25e7dc8618546134@mail.gmail.com>

I might have submitted something if I'd known about it earlier. (or maybe I
did?) Conference is a tad expensive though, but it's on a cruise ship!

http://www.foundationsofdigitalgames.org/

On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 7:07 AM, Rachel Donahue <donahrm at gmail.com> wrote:

> Anyone from the sig attending? I don't know a soul and it would be
> lovely to meet up if you are!
>
> On 2/6/09, Rachel Donahue <donahrm at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Andrew --
> > If my survey generates any "yes I'm interested in follow up questions"
> > responses, I'd be happy to conduct an oral history with them. Given my
> > piddling grad student budget it will probably have to be by phone, but I
> > can
> > see if anyone would be willing to have the interview recorded and
> podcast.
> >
> > On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 2:34 PM, Andrew Armstrong
> > <andrew at aarmstrong.org>wrote:
> >
> >>  I left this open but no one has replied. Another bump, we do have some
> >> new
> >> members.
> >>
> >> This project is, really, a bit too practical for the SIG to do "by
> >> volunteer work" as all SIG's operate (with most of our work going on
> >> online). With no money, and no one seeking out sponsorship, donations,
> or
> >> funding, we don't have any equipment (nevermind manpower and transport)
> >> to
> >> do this actively, even though it is an excellent idea, and we'd likely
> be
> >> able to find interested developers to participate.
> >>
> >> So, perhaps it can help by cataloguing other efforts in the area,
> >> preserving them on the Internet Archive, and helping logistically and
> >> with
> >> advertising the service. If anyone also did want to do histories through
> >> us
> >> somehow, having the final result freely available online or in an
> archive
> >> would be invaluable. This is tough to setup without people who are in
> >> industry available to be "on call" or to sign up, and without people who
> >> want to do the recordings in the first place! It's a lot of work on both
> >> sides (finding time for both, and possibly major travelling, preparing
> >> and
> >> researching, equipment, post-production...)
> >>
> >> Therefore, this project is going no where with no active interest. I
> >> personally can put forward weekend time and possibly take days off to
> >> record
> >> things, but since I have no videocamera I can't help directly. I would
> >> like
> >> to investigate setting up a signup form for both sides - the
> interviewers
> >> and interviewees so we can get a good list of people (and their
> location,
> >> what they did) to do interviews with, and who to send, and get people
> >> talking this way. There is a possibility that this is better done
> >> informally, however, or maybe through the new IGDA site which is mainly
> >> forum based (with mailing lists possible, just really being forum posts
> >> being sent to accounts, with replies being allowed), and thus developers
> >> would easily be able to get involved with the SIG and discuss it on
> >> forums
> >> or via. PM's/email.
> >>
> >> There was some possible interest from Dean O'Donnell from WPI, who is
> >> running an oral histories project with student help. Other then this I
> >> know
> >> of no proper active oral histories project, save Jason Scott's GET LAMP
> >> documentary, which is basically edited oral histories (which I hope he
> >> puts
> >> online in full :) ).
> >>
> >> Andrew
> >>
> >> Andrew Armstrong wrote:
> >>
> >> This is coming on from our previous discussion over spring cleaning the
> >> SIG.
> >>
> >> *Oral Histories*
> >> Status: *On Hold*
> >> Currently lead by: *No one. *
> >> Short description: *Interviews with industry people related to their
> past
> >> works. Brought up at GDC 2008, but currently has no assigned project
> >> lead.
> >> *
> >>
> >> Concerns raised previously:
> >> - Aims of the histories, contents, etc.
> >> - What to ask (I brought this up before)
> >> - Who can do them
> >>
> >> Someone to work on this or start organising a team of people would be
> >> good.
> >> Logistically this is the hardest project to manage, and technically we
> >> have
> >> no resources to fund it at all, meaning it requires heavy volunteer
> work.
> >>
> >> People suggesting information, examples of existing histories done, ways
> >> to
> >> get this going, and so forth are welcome. Basically bring whatever you
> >> like
> >> to the table, it's an open discussion.
> >>
> >> Andrew
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> game_preservation mailing
> >> listgame_preservation at igda.orghttp://
> six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> game_preservation mailing list
> >> game_preservation at igda.org
> >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>
> --
>
>
> -------
>  Rachel Donahue
>  Graduate Assistant
>  Maryland Institute for Technology in the Humanities
>  University of Maryland, College Park
>  College Park, MD
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>



-- 
Devin Monnens
www.deserthat.com

The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
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From andrew at aarmstrong.org  Sun Apr 26 10:07:09 2009
From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong)
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 15:07:09 +0100
Subject: [game_preservation] FDG2009
In-Reply-To: <9d1cf2d50904260615g76af4e8fk25e7dc8618546134@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f2d80c160904260607g52f4e63dy4ca5c596e1a36024@mail.gmail.com>
	<9d1cf2d50904260615g76af4e8fk25e7dc8618546134@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49F46A8D.803@aarmstrong.org>

Wow, sounds fancy, the /Disney Wonder/ cruise ship no less! :P It is a 
bit expensive for a one-track program, but I guess it's the universities 
and companies who usually pay, and it appears to be 
accommodation-inclusive at least :)

I obviously won't be making it, being in the UK and that, so I hope it's 
fun!

Are you presenting there Rachel or just visiting? and will you be 
putting any notes online? (I'm always interested in looking through 
them, but you'd be surprised how many conferences, especially academic 
ones, no one bothers to note down anything from).

Andrew

Devin Monnens wrote:
> I might have submitted something if I'd known about it earlier. (or 
> maybe I did?) Conference is a tad expensive though, but it's on a 
> cruise ship!
>
> http://www.foundationsofdigitalgames.org/
>
> On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 7:07 AM, Rachel Donahue <donahrm at gmail.com 
> <mailto:donahrm at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     Anyone from the sig attending? I don't know a soul and it would be
>     lovely to meet up if you are!
>
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From donahrm at gmail.com  Sun Apr 26 10:54:59 2009
From: donahrm at gmail.com (Rachel Donahue)
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 10:54:59 -0400
Subject: [game_preservation] FDG2009
In-Reply-To: <49F46A8D.803@aarmstrong.org>
References: <f2d80c160904260607g52f4e63dy4ca5c596e1a36024@mail.gmail.com>
	<9d1cf2d50904260615g76af4e8fk25e7dc8618546134@mail.gmail.com>
	<49F46A8D.803@aarmstrong.org>
Message-ID: <f2d80c160904260754m2b75a4f0m74ad372bc28ce6a2@mail.gmail.com>

Apologies for any weirdness in this email, i'm replying from my phone
since wireless is an absurd 75 cents a minute. It IS expensive for a
conference, but considering my hotel at saa was a thousand bucks
itself... Not so bad! I'd be happy to share my notes when i'm back
ashore and i may risk an international text fee or two to update
twitter -sheepeeh -on board. I'm semi presenting, having gotten a
masters scholarship. It's more of an informal mixer with ea and ms but
i'm hoping it provides some good exposure for the survey, white paper,
and preserving virtual worker project.

On 4/26/09, Andrew Armstrong <andrew at aarmstrong.org> wrote:
> Wow, sounds fancy, the /Disney Wonder/ cruise ship no less! :P It is a
> bit expensive for a one-track program, but I guess it's the universities
> and companies who usually pay, and it appears to be
> accommodation-inclusive at least :)
>
> I obviously won't be making it, being in the UK and that, so I hope it's
> fun!
>
> Are you presenting there Rachel or just visiting? and will you be
> putting any notes online? (I'm always interested in looking through
> them, but you'd be surprised how many conferences, especially academic
> ones, no one bothers to note down anything from).
>
> Andrew
>
> Devin Monnens wrote:
>> I might have submitted something if I'd known about it earlier. (or
>> maybe I did?) Conference is a tad expensive though, but it's on a
>> cruise ship!
>>
>> http://www.foundationsofdigitalgames.org/
>>
>> On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 7:07 AM, Rachel Donahue <donahrm at gmail.com
>> <mailto:donahrm at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>     Anyone from the sig attending? I don't know a soul and it would be
>>     lovely to meet up if you are!
>>
>


-- 


-------
 Rachel Donahue
 Graduate Assistant
 Maryland Institute for Technology in the Humanities
 University of Maryland, College Park
 College Park, MD

From andrew at aarmstrong.org  Sun Apr 26 18:01:35 2009
From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong)
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 23:01:35 +0100
Subject: [game_preservation] FDG2009
In-Reply-To: <f2d80c160904260754m2b75a4f0m74ad372bc28ce6a2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f2d80c160904260607g52f4e63dy4ca5c596e1a36024@mail.gmail.com>	<9d1cf2d50904260615g76af4e8fk25e7dc8618546134@mail.gmail.com>	<49F46A8D.803@aarmstrong.org>
	<f2d80c160904260754m2b75a4f0m74ad372bc28ce6a2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49F4D9BF.4000206@aarmstrong.org>

Sounds cool, keep us posted, well, when you're back!

Andrew

Rachel Donahue wrote:
> Apologies for any weirdness in this email, i'm replying from my phone
> since wireless is an absurd 75 cents a minute. It IS expensive for a
> conference, but considering my hotel at saa was a thousand bucks
> itself... Not so bad! I'd be happy to share my notes when i'm back
> ashore and i may risk an international text fee or two to update
> twitter -sheepeeh -on board. I'm semi presenting, having gotten a
> masters scholarship. It's more of an informal mixer with ea and ms but
> i'm hoping it provides some good exposure for the survey, white paper,
> and preserving virtual worker project.
>
> On 4/26/09, Andrew Armstrong <andrew at aarmstrong.org> wrote:
>   
>> Wow, sounds fancy, the /Disney Wonder/ cruise ship no less! :P It is a
>> bit expensive for a one-track program, but I guess it's the universities
>> and companies who usually pay, and it appears to be
>> accommodation-inclusive at least :)
>>
>> I obviously won't be making it, being in the UK and that, so I hope it's
>> fun!
>>
>> Are you presenting there Rachel or just visiting? and will you be
>> putting any notes online? (I'm always interested in looking through
>> them, but you'd be surprised how many conferences, especially academic
>> ones, no one bothers to note down anything from).
>>
>> Andrew
>>
>> Devin Monnens wrote:
>>     
>>> I might have submitted something if I'd known about it earlier. (or
>>> maybe I did?) Conference is a tad expensive though, but it's on a
>>> cruise ship!
>>>
>>> http://www.foundationsofdigitalgames.org/
>>>
>>> On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 7:07 AM, Rachel Donahue <donahrm at gmail.com
>>> <mailto:donahrm at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>     Anyone from the sig attending? I don't know a soul and it would be
>>>     lovely to meet up if you are!
>>>
>>>       
>
>
>   
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From andrew at aarmstrong.org  Mon Apr 27 05:40:26 2009
From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 10:40:26 +0100
Subject: [game_preservation] Soviet Game Museum
Message-ID: <49F57D8A.3060002@aarmstrong.org>

Anyone here know anything more about this near little museum? 
http://www.edge-online.com/features/inside-the-soviet-arcade-games-museum

I meant to post this when I saw it linked from GSW, but for some reason 
didn't :/

I'll try and get in contact with the owner at some point and invite them 
here if possible, depending on if anyone there can speak English, since 
I can't write Russian. :)

Andrew

From andrew at aarmstrong.org  Mon Apr 27 10:43:52 2009
From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 15:43:52 +0100
Subject: [game_preservation] Bibliography project
In-Reply-To: <49D8CA33.5020008@aarmstrong.org>
References: <49D50E6A.6060103@aarmstrong.org>	<b96706b70904031156g24afef50x97d9f9c694341418@mail.gmail.com>
	<49D8CA33.5020008@aarmstrong.org>
Message-ID: <49F5C4A8.6040909@aarmstrong.org>

Okay, I've sorted more of the data fields (this might not come up right, 
I hope it does), comments welcome!

I am sure I am missing some useful bits (it's also very simplified - 
apart from the admin side, at the start this might be all the tables - 
so it's not going to be fully normalised, have no related "games" or 
"theory" links, and it is probably going to be a MySQL thing, thus the 
choice of data types is pretty limited - although I'll probably make 
some varchar rather then text later).

Resource Data Table Field Name 	Data Type 	Data Size 	Description
key 	+VE INT 	128bit (Maximum size) 	This identifies the entry. A int is 
used to speed up lookups and so forth, and is never ever shown to 
anyone, even admins. Game names change, and so do URL identifiers (if 
the need arises), so this is the one bastion of "neverchanging" which 
links all the names and URL's to it (as well as all other reference 
tables!)
title 	TEXT 	0 	Title of the resource
local_title 	TEXT 	0 	If set, this will contain the English 
translated/localised title. NB: Multilingual will need to be sorted 
eventually!
author 	TEXT 	0 	Maybe VARCHAR? or allow an ID link? (can be multiple 
authors!) In any case, the person, group of people or organisation who 
authored the resource
date 	DATETIME 	0 	Standard date field. Allow full input (down to the 
millisecond) or just a "day" or "month" or "year"
url 	TEXT 	0 	URL to the resource, if on the web.
page_count 	SMALLINT 	0 	Positive integer - number of pages in the article.
isbn 	VARCHAR 	13 	International Standard Book Number (13 digits long)
issn 	VARCHAR 	8 	International Standard Serial Number
publication_info 	TEXT 	0 	Publication information. Might be the 
publisher, where it was published, who by
abstract 	TEXT 	0 	Fair use abstract from the paper
description 	TEXT 	0 	Description of the paper, if any more is necessary 
over the abstract.
editors_notes 	TEXT 	0 	Editors notes for the entry - hidden from the 
public
keywords 	TEXT 	0 	Keywords for the resource, like tags (so could be a 
phrase) to aid searching for things outside of categorisation, probably 
separated by commas or something similar.
NAMEOFFIELD 	DATATYPE 	0 	DESCRIPTION


Resource Type Category Relational Table Field Name 	Data Type 	Data 
Size 	Description
key_resource 	INT 	128 	Joint PK with key below. This is the resource Id 
the category is for.
key_resource_category 	INT 	128 	Joint PK with key above. This is the 
category that is to be related to the resource.

Resource Category Type Data Table Field Name 	Data Type 	Data Size 
Description
key 	INT 	128 	Primary key - uniquely identified resource category.
name 	TEXT 	0 	Resource category name. "book", "news article", "opinion 
article" etc.
description 	TEXT 	0 	Textual description of the category.


Resource Content Category Relational Table Field Name 	Data Type 	Data 
Size 	Description
key_resource 	INT 	128 	Joint PK with key below. This is the resource Id 
the category is for.
key_resource_category 	INT 	128 	Joint PK with key above. This is the 
category that is to be related to the resource.

Resource Content Category Type Data Table Field Name 	Data Type 	Data 
Size 	Description
key 	INT 	128 	Primary key - uniquely identified resource content category.
name 	TEXT 	0 	Resource category name. "game history", "game culture", 
"legal", "preview", "review", "discussion" - the larger tags.
description 	TEXT 	0 	Textual description of the category.



Andrew

Andrew Armstrong wrote:
> Sounds good, the rating thing was probably going to be for articles 
> highly related to preservation - if we add an article, it implies it 
> is a good source for *something* but not necessarily historical work - 
> the way a game is made is useful for certain types of research into 
> that game for instance, but not generally historical, whereas why a 
> game was made and what went on when it was made in the company might 
> be better.
>
> Will have to think if it it just needs a simple "Yes/No" for "Highly 
> useful" or whatever it is given. Might need to fine tune it more - if 
> it is useful for information and accuracy on "X" but not on "Y".
>
> Must reads is a key part - key texts need to be added for general 
> work, and I've noted down your other fields - I forgot publisher etc.! :)
>
> Andrew
>
> Devin Monnens wrote:
>> Andrew,
>>  
>> Sounds like a good idea. I'd say required fields are the things we 
>> generally use for references:
>>  
>> Author, title of work, title of source, publication information. ISBN 
>> is also useful, as would be a mention of other places the article 
>> appears.
>>  
>> Commentary and rating system can be useful, but I would suggest that 
>> the rating system (say 5 stars) could be out of context - not useful 
>> in what way? The article may be very good, but if the article has 
>> nothing to do with preservation, then why rate it highly?
>>  
>> I also think when possible we should have a collection of essays that 
>> have been written on the site. This might not be possible with some 
>> texts, but we could at least do an external link to them (say through 
>> Google books or the like).
>>  
>> Anyway, this will be a great project. I think we definitely need a 
>> list of 'must reads' because this indicates sort of the canon of 
>> digital media preservation (and preservation in general). We can also 
>> try to organize based on who is workign with what - so for the papers 
>> coming out of Europe, we can indicate which archives or universities 
>> they are working with and perhaps who is connected with that, too.
>>  
>> -Devin Monnens
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 1:13 PM, Andrew Armstrong 
>> <andrew at aarmstrong.org <mailto:andrew at aarmstrong.org>> wrote:
>>
>>     Hey all,
>>
>>     I'll probably get the other projects' ideas more fleshed out in
>>     the coming weeks (people who take over a project can sort their
>>     own parts though of course :) ), but this one is immediately in
>>     my mind and could use some good comments early on.
>>
>>     Basically, me and Devin discussed a Bibliography - a list of
>>     resources, from the normal books to web articles to other media.
>>     It would replace our current "Resources" list, which is a
>>     nightmare to edit and check though!
>>
>>     If anyone has any thoughts on these points, or anything I've
>>     forgotten, would be ace:
>>     * What kind of fields would be useful to have for each entry
>>     (author, name, URL, ISBN/ISSN and keywords are obvious, any others?)
>>     * Categories of resources
>>     ** by type - such as "book", "news article", "opinion article"...?
>>     ** and also content - "game history", "game culture", "legal",
>>     "preview", "review", "discussion"...? not sure...
>>     * Should I add in a way to reference the game(s) the article
>>     might refer to?
>>     * Should there be a facility to either add the entire text of an
>>     article (so it is searchable, ala google books) or at perhaps at
>>     least an extract to the entry?
>>     * Should there be a "importance" field - basically our opinion on
>>     how "useful" some resource is? This might help pick out the "Must
>>     reference" resources perhaps.
>>     * I think there should be a facility to have an editor-added
>>     comment on the content of the article - the description, as it
>>     were. Thoughts?
>>     * Who wants to help add entries? :) it'll be editor run (with, I
>>     hope, publicly hidden histories kinda like a wiki) perhaps with
>>     some facility to have users submit entries. Editing with ease is
>>     going to be the priority.
>>
>>     I was going to build a basic site to accommodate this for the
>>     mean time (it won't be on the IGDA's own server, I'd rather not
>>     fight to get webspace right now with Jason leaving who was the
>>     webmaster ;) ), and just basically get it up and running so
>>     people can add items. So, a simple PHP site, since I know some
>>     basic PHP :) I'd build it "correctly" since I want to expand this
>>     if it is useful, but I hope it'll be quick - so the layout will
>>     start absolutely horribly at first of course, heh.
>>
>>     Andrew
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     game_preservation mailing list
>>     game_preservation at igda.org <mailto:game_preservation at igda.org>
>>     http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
>>
>> "Until next time..."
>> Captain Commando
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> game_preservation mailing list
>> game_preservation at igda.org
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>>   
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>   
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From dmonnens at gmail.com  Tue Apr 28 09:00:24 2009
From: dmonnens at gmail.com (Devin Monnens)
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 07:00:24 -0600
Subject: [game_preservation] Bibliography project
In-Reply-To: <49F5C4A8.6040909@aarmstrong.org>
References: <49D50E6A.6060103@aarmstrong.org>
	<b96706b70904031156g24afef50x97d9f9c694341418@mail.gmail.com>
	<49D8CA33.5020008@aarmstrong.org> <49F5C4A8.6040909@aarmstrong.org>
Message-ID: <9d1cf2d50904280600q13d8f208k8af408fafbec6eda@mail.gmail.com>

Looks great! I can't think of anything else to add. International title is
an excellent idea, too!

-Devin Monnens
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From andrew at aarmstrong.org  Tue Apr 28 09:28:14 2009
From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong)
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 14:28:14 +0100
Subject: [game_preservation] Bibliography project
In-Reply-To: <9d1cf2d50904280600q13d8f208k8af408fafbec6eda@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49D50E6A.6060103@aarmstrong.org>	<b96706b70904031156g24afef50x97d9f9c694341418@mail.gmail.com>	<49D8CA33.5020008@aarmstrong.org>
	<49F5C4A8.6040909@aarmstrong.org>
	<9d1cf2d50904280600q13d8f208k8af408fafbec6eda@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49F7046E.6080503@aarmstrong.org>

Thanks a lot! I'll get on designing the site a bit, I'll report back 
when I get something sorted, and put up a project page on the wiki for it.

I do think it'll be pretty easy to make a system that is multilingual 
(so you use a 3 letter code to get your language, if anyone has input 
data in that language, and original data not changed between languages 
can be stored in one location) but that's for another day.

Andrew

Devin Monnens wrote:
> Looks great! I can't think of anything else to add. International 
> title is an excellent idea, too!
>
> -Devin Monnens
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>   
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From dmonnens at gmail.com  Tue Apr 28 11:31:35 2009
From: dmonnens at gmail.com (Devin Monnens)
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 09:31:35 -0600
Subject: [game_preservation] TV emulation
Message-ID: <9d1cf2d50904280831v3ba98de0x42257d489f5c6647@mail.gmail.com>

Ian Bogost posts about how the Atari 2600 was designed to interact with TV's
in a specific way. I have also noticed this on the NES (especially the Chozo
statues in Metroid):

http://www.bogost.com/games/a_television_simulator.shtml

-- 
Devin Monnens
www.deserthat.com

The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
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From andrew at aarmstrong.org  Tue Apr 28 11:54:42 2009
From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong)
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 16:54:42 +0100
Subject: [game_preservation] TV emulation
In-Reply-To: <9d1cf2d50904280831v3ba98de0x42257d489f5c6647@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9d1cf2d50904280831v3ba98de0x42257d489f5c6647@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49F726C2.3030007@aarmstrong.org>

Yeah, interesting stuff. I should really start posting things to the 
list like this - I've not been doing them on the blog, although this 
might well class as "preservation news" I guess.

Andrew

Devin Monnens wrote:
> Ian Bogost posts about how the Atari 2600 was designed to interact 
> with TV's in a specific way. I have also noticed this on the NES 
> (especially the Chozo statues in Metroid):
>
> http://www.bogost.com/games/a_television_simulator.shtml
>
> -- 
> Devin Monnens
> www.deserthat.com <http://www.deserthat.com>
>
> The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>   
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From mike at multimedia.cx  Tue Apr 28 23:58:55 2009
From: mike at multimedia.cx (Mike Melanson)
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 20:58:55 -0700
Subject: [game_preservation] TV emulation
In-Reply-To: <49F726C2.3030007@aarmstrong.org>
References: <9d1cf2d50904280831v3ba98de0x42257d489f5c6647@mail.gmail.com>
	<49F726C2.3030007@aarmstrong.org>
Message-ID: <49F7D07F.3040803@multimedia.cx>

I remember when scanline emulation was implemented in my TuxNES 
emulator. Screenshot here:

http://tuxnes.sourceforge.net/snaps/tyson-snap-0001.gif

It seemed silly to me, but on another mailing list, Jim Leonard 
(Trixter) explained the following examples where it's a little more useful:

'I think every single game in MAME looks like this, personally, which is 
why I play with scanlines on all the time.  But if you want specific 
examples... Dig Dug, Roc'n'rope, Zookeeper, Robotron, Tutenkahm (sp?) 
and Punch-Out (arcade, not NES) come to mind..  Actually, Frogger is 
probably the best example.  It's too saturated/bright/"primary colors" 
to me without the scanlines.'

-- 
     -Mike Melanson


Andrew Armstrong wrote:
> Yeah, interesting stuff. I should really start posting things to the 
> list like this - I've not been doing them on the blog, although this 
> might well class as "preservation news" I guess.
> 
> Andrew
> 
> Devin Monnens wrote:
>> Ian Bogost posts about how the Atari 2600 was designed to interact 
>> with TV's in a specific way. I have also noticed this on the NES 
>> (especially the Chozo statues in Metroid):
>>
>> http://www.bogost.com/games/a_television_simulator.shtml
>>
>> -- 
>> Devin Monnens
>> www.deserthat.com <http://www.deserthat.com>
>>
>> The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> game_preservation mailing list
>> game_preservation at igda.org
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>>   
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation



From fcifaldi at gmail.com  Wed Apr 29 00:19:07 2009
From: fcifaldi at gmail.com (Frank Cifaldi)
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 21:19:07 -0700
Subject: [game_preservation] TV emulation
In-Reply-To: <49F7D07F.3040803@multimedia.cx>
References: <9d1cf2d50904280831v3ba98de0x42257d489f5c6647@mail.gmail.com>
	<49F726C2.3030007@aarmstrong.org> <49F7D07F.3040803@multimedia.cx>
Message-ID: <d6ca04fb0904282119p1bae5606sa0c933a23b17fb9@mail.gmail.com>

I love the NTSC filter made by "Blargg." I switch to it once in a while on
Nestopia. It's probably similar to what Ian's team came up with:

http://www.slack.net/~ant/libs/ntsc.html

On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 8:58 PM, Mike Melanson <mike at multimedia.cx> wrote:

> I remember when scanline emulation was implemented in my TuxNES emulator.
> Screenshot here:
>
> http://tuxnes.sourceforge.net/snaps/tyson-snap-0001.gif
>
> It seemed silly to me, but on another mailing list, Jim Leonard (Trixter)
> explained the following examples where it's a little more useful:
>
> 'I think every single game in MAME looks like this, personally, which is
> why I play with scanlines on all the time.  But if you want specific
> examples... Dig Dug, Roc'n'rope, Zookeeper, Robotron, Tutenkahm (sp?) and
> Punch-Out (arcade, not NES) come to mind..  Actually, Frogger is probably
> the best example.  It's too saturated/bright/"primary colors" to me without
> the scanlines.'
>
> --
>    -Mike Melanson
>
>
> Andrew Armstrong wrote:
>
>> Yeah, interesting stuff. I should really start posting things to the list
>> like this - I've not been doing them on the blog, although this might well
>> class as "preservation news" I guess.
>>
>> Andrew
>>
>> Devin Monnens wrote:
>>
>>> Ian Bogost posts about how the Atari 2600 was designed to interact with
>>> TV's in a specific way. I have also noticed this on the NES (especially the
>>> Chozo statues in Metroid):
>>>
>>> http://www.bogost.com/games/a_television_simulator.shtml
>>>
>>> --
>>> Devin Monnens
>>> www.deserthat.com <http://www.deserthat.com>
>>>
>>> The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> game_preservation mailing list
>>> game_preservation at igda.org
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> game_preservation mailing list
>> game_preservation at igda.org
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>
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From andrew at aarmstrong.org  Wed Apr 29 04:32:52 2009
From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 09:32:52 +0100
Subject: [game_preservation] TV emulation
In-Reply-To: <d6ca04fb0904282119p1bae5606sa0c933a23b17fb9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9d1cf2d50904280831v3ba98de0x42257d489f5c6647@mail.gmail.com>	<49F726C2.3030007@aarmstrong.org>
	<49F7D07F.3040803@multimedia.cx>
	<d6ca04fb0904282119p1bae5606sa0c933a23b17fb9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49F810B4.4060503@aarmstrong.org>

I need to find some PAL versions of these kind of things, hehe :) neat 
links and info guys, the NTSC filter looks amazing according to the 
screenshots. Scanlines for the arcade machines, well, looks a little odd 
- must really be monitor specific.

Andrew

Frank Cifaldi wrote:
> I love the NTSC filter made by "Blargg." I switch to it once in a 
> while on Nestopia. It's probably similar to what Ian's team came up with:
>
> http://www.slack.net/~ant/libs/ntsc.html 
> <http://www.slack.net/%7Eant/libs/ntsc.html>
>
> On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 8:58 PM, Mike Melanson <mike at multimedia.cx 
> <mailto:mike at multimedia.cx>> wrote:
>
>     I remember when scanline emulation was implemented in my TuxNES
>     emulator. Screenshot here:
>
>     http://tuxnes.sourceforge.net/snaps/tyson-snap-0001.gif
>
>     It seemed silly to me, but on another mailing list, Jim Leonard
>     (Trixter) explained the following examples where it's a little
>     more useful:
>
>     'I think every single game in MAME looks like this, personally,
>     which is why I play with scanlines on all the time.  But if you
>     want specific examples... Dig Dug, Roc'n'rope, Zookeeper,
>     Robotron, Tutenkahm (sp?) and Punch-Out (arcade, not NES) come to
>     mind..  Actually, Frogger is probably the best example.  It's too
>     saturated/bright/"primary colors" to me without the scanlines.'
>
>     -- 
>        -Mike Melanson
>
>
>     Andrew Armstrong wrote:
>
>         Yeah, interesting stuff. I should really start posting things
>         to the list like this - I've not been doing them on the blog,
>         although this might well class as "preservation news" I guess.
>
>         Andrew
>
>         Devin Monnens wrote:
>
>             Ian Bogost posts about how the Atari 2600 was designed to
>             interact with TV's in a specific way. I have also noticed
>             this on the NES (especially the Chozo statues in Metroid):
>
>             http://www.bogost.com/games/a_television_simulator.shtml
>
>             -- 
>             Devin Monnens
>             www.deserthat.com <http://www.deserthat.com>
>             <http://www.deserthat.com>
>
>
>             The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
>             ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>             _______________________________________________
>             game_preservation mailing list
>             game_preservation at igda.org <mailto:game_preservation at igda.org>
>             http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>              
>
>
>         ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>         _______________________________________________
>         game_preservation mailing list
>         game_preservation at igda.org <mailto:game_preservation at igda.org>
>         http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     game_preservation mailing list
>     game_preservation at igda.org <mailto:game_preservation at igda.org>
>     http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>   
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From dmonnens at gmail.com  Wed Apr 29 08:33:19 2009
From: dmonnens at gmail.com (Devin Monnens)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 06:33:19 -0600
Subject: [game_preservation] TV emulation
In-Reply-To: <49F810B4.4060503@aarmstrong.org>
References: <9d1cf2d50904280831v3ba98de0x42257d489f5c6647@mail.gmail.com>
	<49F726C2.3030007@aarmstrong.org> <49F7D07F.3040803@multimedia.cx>
	<d6ca04fb0904282119p1bae5606sa0c933a23b17fb9@mail.gmail.com>
	<49F810B4.4060503@aarmstrong.org>
Message-ID: <9d1cf2d50904290533i5a312b52xe6ec38b549774445@mail.gmail.com>

It's interesting too because artists don't like the scanlines (which is why
you have the option of using them!). This focus on how the technology looks
brings up other questions - what happens if I want to emulate broken
hardware (say the NES 'flash' or glitched graphics)? Is there a point where
you can try to do too much?

-Devin

On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 2:32 AM, Andrew Armstrong <andrew at aarmstrong.org>wrote:

>  I need to find some PAL versions of these kind of things, hehe :) neat
> links and info guys, the NTSC filter looks amazing according to the
> screenshots. Scanlines for the arcade machines, well, looks a little odd -
> must really be monitor specific.
>
> Andrew
>
> Frank Cifaldi wrote:
>
> I love the NTSC filter made by "Blargg." I switch to it once in a while on
> Nestopia. It's probably similar to what Ian's team came up with:
>
> http://www.slack.net/~ant/libs/ntsc.html<http://www.slack.net/%7Eant/libs/ntsc.html>
>
> On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 8:58 PM, Mike Melanson <mike at multimedia.cx> wrote:
>
>> I remember when scanline emulation was implemented in my TuxNES emulator.
>> Screenshot here:
>>
>> http://tuxnes.sourceforge.net/snaps/tyson-snap-0001.gif
>>
>> It seemed silly to me, but on another mailing list, Jim Leonard (Trixter)
>> explained the following examples where it's a little more useful:
>>
>> 'I think every single game in MAME looks like this, personally, which is
>> why I play with scanlines on all the time.  But if you want specific
>> examples... Dig Dug, Roc'n'rope, Zookeeper, Robotron, Tutenkahm (sp?) and
>> Punch-Out (arcade, not NES) come to mind..  Actually, Frogger is probably
>> the best example.  It's too saturated/bright/"primary colors" to me without
>> the scanlines.'
>>
>> --
>>    -Mike Melanson
>>
>>
>> Andrew Armstrong wrote:
>>
>>> Yeah, interesting stuff. I should really start posting things to the list
>>> like this - I've not been doing them on the blog, although this might well
>>> class as "preservation news" I guess.
>>>
>>> Andrew
>>>
>>> Devin Monnens wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ian Bogost posts about how the Atari 2600 was designed to interact with
>>>> TV's in a specific way. I have also noticed this on the NES (especially the
>>>> Chozo statues in Metroid):
>>>>
>>>> http://www.bogost.com/games/a_television_simulator.shtml
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Devin Monnens
>>>>  www.deserthat.com <http://www.deserthat.com>
>>>>
>>>> The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> game_preservation mailing list
>>>> game_preservation at igda.org
>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> game_preservation mailing list
>>> game_preservation at igda.org
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> game_preservation mailing list
>> game_preservation at igda.org
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing listgame_preservation at igda.orghttp://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>
>


-- 
Devin Monnens
www.deserthat.com

The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
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From mike at multimedia.cx  Wed Apr 29 09:47:56 2009
From: mike at multimedia.cx (Mike Melanson)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 06:47:56 -0700
Subject: [game_preservation] TV emulation
In-Reply-To: <9d1cf2d50904290533i5a312b52xe6ec38b549774445@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9d1cf2d50904280831v3ba98de0x42257d489f5c6647@mail.gmail.com>	<49F726C2.3030007@aarmstrong.org>
	<49F7D07F.3040803@multimedia.cx>	<d6ca04fb0904282119p1bae5606sa0c933a23b17fb9@mail.gmail.com>	<49F810B4.4060503@aarmstrong.org>
	<9d1cf2d50904290533i5a312b52xe6ec38b549774445@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49F85A8C.4090907@multimedia.cx>

Devin Monnens wrote:
> It's interesting too because artists don't like the scanlines (which is 
> why you have the option of using them!). This focus on how the 
> technology looks brings up other questions - what happens if I want to 
> emulate broken hardware (say the NES 'flash' or glitched graphics)? Is 
> there a point where you can try to do too much?

It's useful to note that not all NES flashing is a hardware-related. 
Well, not directly. The NES video hardware is incapable of displaying 
more than 8 sprites on a line. Remember all those games where the 
sprites would start to flicker if there were too many sprites on a 
scanline? That's because the software was toggling them on and off when 
too many crowded on the same scanline. That's why the flickering will 
still show up in emulators.

I remember an NES hacker who reverse engineered Konami's pseudo-random 
algorithm for deciding which sprites to en/disable. Wish I could dig 
that up again.

-- 
     -Mike Melanson

From dmonnens at gmail.com  Thu Apr 30 00:15:17 2009
From: dmonnens at gmail.com (Devin Monnens)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 22:15:17 -0600
Subject: [game_preservation] MASSIVE e-bay auction in the UK
Message-ID: <9d1cf2d50904292115j7aac553dqcc2c3c1268fbe492@mail.gmail.com>

One of my friends sent me this one. I haven't had a chance to scroll through
it, but it's a TON of stuff. Most of it looks like junk (like 5 different
N64 consoles, half the games are missing box and manual), but there's a
massive collection of it. Currently selling for 4000 pounds (about $6k US).
Personally, I think it's more valuable for the photos, as he has images of
EVERYTHING. As such, be warned - this will take you a LONG time to scroll to
the bottom (and to even load the page). A good deal of the value comes from
the Neo Geo and CPS2 stuff. But I personally think it's just a bunch of
disorganized stuff. Though that Darius model is pretty sweet :)

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330326168714

-- 
Devin Monnens
www.deserthat.com

The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
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From mike at multimedia.cx  Thu Apr 30 01:08:26 2009
From: mike at multimedia.cx (Mike Melanson)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 22:08:26 -0700
Subject: [game_preservation] MASSIVE e-bay auction in the UK
In-Reply-To: <9d1cf2d50904292115j7aac553dqcc2c3c1268fbe492@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9d1cf2d50904292115j7aac553dqcc2c3c1268fbe492@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49F9324A.8060907@multimedia.cx>

Devin Monnens wrote:
> One of my friends sent me this one. I haven't had a chance to scroll 
> through it, but it's a TON of stuff. Most of it looks like junk (like 5 
> different N64 consoles, half the games are missing box and manual), but 
> there's a massive collection of it. Currently selling for 4000 pounds 
> (about $6k US). Personally, I think it's more valuable for the photos, 
> as he has images of EVERYTHING. As such, be warned - this will take you 
> a LONG time to scroll to the bottom (and to even load the page). A good 
> deal of the value comes from the Neo Geo and CPS2 stuff. But I 
> personally think it's just a bunch of disorganized stuff. Though that 
> Darius model is pretty sweet :)

Is this kind of collection interesting to the Game Preservation SIG? I 
guess I was floating along on the assumption that they primarily cared 
about PC games but I don't see why console games would be excluded.

-- 
     -Mike Melanson

From mike at multimedia.cx  Thu Apr 30 01:14:57 2009
From: mike at multimedia.cx (Mike Melanson)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 22:14:57 -0700
Subject: [game_preservation] MASSIVE e-bay auction in the UK
In-Reply-To: <9d1cf2d50904292115j7aac553dqcc2c3c1268fbe492@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9d1cf2d50904292115j7aac553dqcc2c3c1268fbe492@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49F933D1.80509@multimedia.cx>

Devin Monnens wrote:
> One of my friends sent me this one. I haven't had a chance to scroll 
> through it, but it's a TON of stuff. Most of it looks like junk (like 5 
[...]
> as he has images of EVERYTHING. As such, be warned - this will take you 
> a LONG time to scroll to the bottom (and to even load the page). A good 

Heh... quick tip: Patiently wait for the whole thing to load (sleep on 
it if need be). Then, hold down the space bar in your web browser and 
scroll through the history of console video gaming in rapid motion!

-- 
     -Mike Melanson

From andrew at aarmstrong.org  Thu Apr 30 04:26:41 2009
From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 09:26:41 +0100
Subject: [game_preservation] MASSIVE e-bay auction in the UK
In-Reply-To: <49F9324A.8060907@multimedia.cx>
References: <9d1cf2d50904292115j7aac553dqcc2c3c1268fbe492@mail.gmail.com>
	<49F9324A.8060907@multimedia.cx>
Message-ID: <49F960C1.3040503@aarmstrong.org>

Well, we have got a lagging project to get information on collectors ;) 
(reminds me I need to write up the projects and send out info to get 
some ideas going, although I don't think we have the people and time to 
do all the ideas).

The SIG itself can't exactly store anything, but the members who have 
collections, archives and museums can :) but usually collectors don't 
donate a great deal of their material over time - they usually sell it, 
or pass it on to other collectors, or this is the impression I've got 
from actually talking to them (except for the odd few who do really 
donate things, which is awesome).

Andrew

Mike Melanson wrote:
> Is this kind of collection interesting to the Game Preservation SIG? I 
> guess I was floating along on the assumption that they primarily cared 
> about PC games but I don't see why console games would be excluded.
>

From andrew at aarmstrong.org  Thu Apr 30 04:31:07 2009
From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 09:31:07 +0100
Subject: [game_preservation] MASSIVE e-bay auction in the UK
In-Reply-To: <49F933D1.80509@multimedia.cx>
References: <9d1cf2d50904292115j7aac553dqcc2c3c1268fbe492@mail.gmail.com>
	<49F933D1.80509@multimedia.cx>
Message-ID: <49F961CB.8060509@aarmstrong.org>

Haha, awesome idea. I've got to try this :)

Andrew

Mike Melanson wrote:
> Devin Monnens wrote:
>> One of my friends sent me this one. I haven't had a chance to scroll 
>> through it, but it's a TON of stuff. Most of it looks like junk (like 5 
> [...]
>> as he has images of EVERYTHING. As such, be warned - this will take 
>> you a LONG time to scroll to the bottom (and to even load the page). 
>> A good 
>
> Heh... quick tip: Patiently wait for the whole thing to load (sleep on 
> it if need be). Then, hold down the space bar in your web browser and 
> scroll through the history of console video gaming in rapid motion!
>

From lange at digitalgamearchive.org  Thu Apr 30 06:24:08 2009
From: lange at digitalgamearchive.org (Andreas Lange)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 12:24:08 +0200
Subject: [game_preservation] Soviet Game Museum
In-Reply-To: <49F57D8A.3060002@aarmstrong.org>
References: <49F57D8A.3060002@aarmstrong.org>
Message-ID: <49F97C48.1070109@digitalgamearchive.org>

Dear Andrew,
thanks for the hint. The Russian Video Game tradition is indeed very 
interesting and therfore I send him/ her an email, too. It was answered 
only in Russian, which my (east german) colleague could translate. It 
was only a short note, that I should visit the museum, when I am in 
Moscow (what is actually not planned) and that the exhibition of some of 
their exhibits in Germany, which was mentioned in the Edge artcle, can't 
be realised.
Andreas



Andrew Armstrong schrieb:
> Anyone here know anything more about this near little museum? 
> http://www.edge-online.com/features/inside-the-soviet-arcade-games-museum
> 
> I meant to post this when I saw it linked from GSW, but for some reason 
> didn't :/
> 
> I'll try and get in contact with the owner at some point and invite them 
> here if possible, depending on if anyone there can speak English, since 
> I can't write Russian. :)
> 
> Andrew
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
> 
> 


From andrew at aarmstrong.org  Thu Apr 30 08:58:50 2009
From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 13:58:50 +0100
Subject: [game_preservation] Soviet Game Museum
In-Reply-To: <49F97C48.1070109@digitalgamearchive.org>
References: <49F57D8A.3060002@aarmstrong.org>
	<49F97C48.1070109@digitalgamearchive.org>
Message-ID: <49F9A08A.9070706@aarmstrong.org>

Ahh, I  won't have much luck contacting him then. Hmm, a little 
annoying. If you have a chance to get any details in the future, or go 
visit at all, post about it :)

Andrew

Andreas Lange wrote:
> Dear Andrew,
> thanks for the hint. The Russian Video Game tradition is indeed very 
> interesting and therfore I send him/ her an email, too. It was 
> answered only in Russian, which my (east german) colleague could 
> translate. It was only a short note, that I should visit the museum, 
> when I am in Moscow (what is actually not planned) and that the 
> exhibition of some of their exhibits in Germany, which was mentioned 
> in the Edge artcle, can't be realised.
> Andreas
>
>
>
> Andrew Armstrong schrieb:
>> Anyone here know anything more about this near little museum? 
>> http://www.edge-online.com/features/inside-the-soviet-arcade-games-museum 
>>
>>
>> I meant to post this when I saw it linked from GSW, but for some 
>> reason didn't :/
>>
>> I'll try and get in contact with the owner at some point and invite 
>> them here if possible, depending on if anyone there can speak 
>> English, since I can't write Russian. :)
>>
>> Andrew
>> _______________________________________________
>> game_preservation mailing list
>> game_preservation at igda.org
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation

From dmonnens at gmail.com  Thu Apr 30 09:37:23 2009
From: dmonnens at gmail.com (Devin Monnens)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 07:37:23 -0600
Subject: [game_preservation] Soviet Game Museum
In-Reply-To: <49F9A08A.9070706@aarmstrong.org>
References: <49F57D8A.3060002@aarmstrong.org>
	<49F97C48.1070109@digitalgamearchive.org>
	<49F9A08A.9070706@aarmstrong.org>
Message-ID: <9d1cf2d50904300637x38aa22fdi5efc08c879c890c2@mail.gmail.com>

He only speaks in Russian? Well hmm... Now there ARE a few Russian-speaking
people at work, but I don't trust any of them. So there's nobody I know well
enough to ask about translation and dialogue. (Though my Japanese instructor
apparently knows a few words in Russian :) I can see if anyone in the family
knows someone who speaks Russian. This museum is fantastic.

Do they have Facebook or LinkedIn? Do they have a website?

-Devin

On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 6:58 AM, Andrew Armstrong <andrew at aarmstrong.org>wrote:

> Ahh, I  won't have much luck contacting him then. Hmm, a little annoying.
> If you have a chance to get any details in the future, or go visit at all,
> post about it :)
>
> Andrew
>
>
> Andreas Lange wrote:
>
>> Dear Andrew,
>> thanks for the hint. The Russian Video Game tradition is indeed very
>> interesting and therfore I send him/ her an email, too. It was answered only
>> in Russian, which my (east german) colleague could translate. It was only a
>> short note, that I should visit the museum, when I am in Moscow (what is
>> actually not planned) and that the exhibition of some of their exhibits in
>> Germany, which was mentioned in the Edge artcle, can't be realised.
>> Andreas
>>
>>
>>
>> Andrew Armstrong schrieb:
>>
>>> Anyone here know anything more about this near little museum?
>>> http://www.edge-online.com/features/inside-the-soviet-arcade-games-museum
>>>
>>> I meant to post this when I saw it linked from GSW, but for some reason
>>> didn't :/
>>>
>>> I'll try and get in contact with the owner at some point and invite them
>>> here if possible, depending on if anyone there can speak English, since I
>>> can't write Russian. :)
>>>
>>> Andrew
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> game_preservation mailing list
>>> game_preservation at igda.org
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> game_preservation mailing list
>> game_preservation at igda.org
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>>
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>



-- 
Devin Monnens
www.deserthat.com

The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
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From mike at multimedia.cx  Thu Apr 30 09:42:02 2009
From: mike at multimedia.cx (Mike Melanson)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 06:42:02 -0700
Subject: [game_preservation] MASSIVE e-bay auction in the UK
In-Reply-To: <49F960C1.3040503@aarmstrong.org>
References: <9d1cf2d50904292115j7aac553dqcc2c3c1268fbe492@mail.gmail.com>	<49F9324A.8060907@multimedia.cx>
	<49F960C1.3040503@aarmstrong.org>
Message-ID: <49F9AAAA.6060105@multimedia.cx>

Andrew Armstrong wrote:
> Well, we have got a lagging project to get information on collectors ;) 
> (reminds me I need to write up the projects and send out info to get 
> some ideas going, although I don't think we have the people and time to 
> do all the ideas).
> 
> The SIG itself can't exactly store anything, but the members who have 
> collections, archives and museums can :) but usually collectors don't 
> donate a great deal of their material over time - they usually sell it, 
> or pass it on to other collectors, or this is the impression I've got 
> from actually talking to them (except for the odd few who do really 
> donate things, which is awesome).

I ask because I finally got to the point recently where I desire to get 
rid of my NES collection. It consists of an official top loading NES 
control deck and ~70 games (most valuable ones are original Final 
Fantasy, Dragon Warrior II, and all 6 Mega Man games). I don't really 
care about making a profit from it. And if there was a museum group to 
donate it to, I wouldn't mind handing it over.

-- 
     -Mike Melanson

From dmonnens at gmail.com  Thu Apr 30 09:45:55 2009
From: dmonnens at gmail.com (Devin Monnens)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 07:45:55 -0600
Subject: [game_preservation] Soviet Game Museum
In-Reply-To: <9d1cf2d50904300637x38aa22fdi5efc08c879c890c2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49F57D8A.3060002@aarmstrong.org>
	<49F97C48.1070109@digitalgamearchive.org>
	<49F9A08A.9070706@aarmstrong.org>
	<9d1cf2d50904300637x38aa22fdi5efc08c879c890c2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9d1cf2d50904300645n200db16cv173b16934bb7d83e@mail.gmail.com>

Ok,

I e-mailed a couple people who might be able to get me in contact with a
Russian-speaker locally. I also forwarded this to the Women's SIG list to
see if anyone there spoke Russian. I think it would be a great idea if we
got these guys on our international network of game preservationists. We
know practically nothing about Russian games aside from Tetris and seeing
how I don't have an e-mail connection with Alexey Pajitnov... :) They might
be able to produce a document that discusses the history of digital games
and the presence of digital media (especially games) preservation within the
Soviet Union that we could then translate and add to our resources. Or maybe
I'm thinking too big :P

-Devin

On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 7:37 AM, Devin Monnens <dmonnens at gmail.com> wrote:

> He only speaks in Russian? Well hmm... Now there ARE a few Russian-speaking
> people at work, but I don't trust any of them. So there's nobody I know well
> enough to ask about translation and dialogue. (Though my Japanese instructor
> apparently knows a few words in Russian :) I can see if anyone in the family
> knows someone who speaks Russian. This museum is fantastic.
>
> Do they have Facebook or LinkedIn? Do they have a website?
>
> -Devin
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 6:58 AM, Andrew Armstrong <andrew at aarmstrong.org>wrote:
>
>> Ahh, I  won't have much luck contacting him then. Hmm, a little annoying.
>> If you have a chance to get any details in the future, or go visit at all,
>> post about it :)
>>
>> Andrew
>>
>>
>> Andreas Lange wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Andrew,
>>> thanks for the hint. The Russian Video Game tradition is indeed very
>>> interesting and therfore I send him/ her an email, too. It was answered only
>>> in Russian, which my (east german) colleague could translate. It was only a
>>> short note, that I should visit the museum, when I am in Moscow (what is
>>> actually not planned) and that the exhibition of some of their exhibits in
>>> Germany, which was mentioned in the Edge artcle, can't be realised.
>>> Andreas
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Andrew Armstrong schrieb:
>>>
>>>> Anyone here know anything more about this near little museum?
>>>> http://www.edge-online.com/features/inside-the-soviet-arcade-games-museum
>>>>
>>>> I meant to post this when I saw it linked from GSW, but for some reason
>>>> didn't :/
>>>>
>>>> I'll try and get in contact with the owner at some point and invite them
>>>> here if possible, depending on if anyone there can speak English, since I
>>>> can't write Russian. :)
>>>>
>>>> Andrew
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> game_preservation mailing list
>>>> game_preservation at igda.org
>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> game_preservation mailing list
>>> game_preservation at igda.org
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> game_preservation mailing list
>> game_preservation at igda.org
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Devin Monnens
> www.deserthat.com
>
> The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
>



-- 
Devin Monnens
www.deserthat.com

The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
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From Dan.Pinchbeck at port.ac.uk  Thu Apr 30 09:48:08 2009
From: Dan.Pinchbeck at port.ac.uk (Dan Pinchbeck)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 14:48:08 +0100
Subject: [game_preservation] MASSIVE e-bay auction in the UK
Message-ID: <49F9BA28020000B50008B46C@stirling.iso.port.ac.uk>

Hi Mike

Hell, if you're looking for a home, we'd always take it. May be worth contacting the UK Games Archive too. We're not public, obviously, but we'd certainly look after it! Let me know if no-one else takes you up (like that's going to happen!)

:)

Dan

Dr Dan Pinchbeck
Advanced Games Research Group
School of Creative Technologies
University of Portsmouth, UK

www.thechineseroom.co.uk
www.keep.port.ac.uk
>>> Mike Melanson <mike at multimedia.cx> 30/04/09 2:44 PM >>>
Andrew Armstrong wrote:
> Well, we have got a lagging project to get information on collectors ;) 
> (reminds me I need to write up the projects and send out info to get 
> some ideas going, although I don't think we have the people and time to 
> do all the ideas).
> 
> The SIG itself can't exactly store anything, but the members who have 
> collections, archives and museums can :) but usually collectors don't 
> donate a great deal of their material over time - they usually sell it, 
> or pass it on to other collectors, or this is the impression I've got 
> from actually talking to them (except for the odd few who do really 
> donate things, which is awesome).

I ask because I finally got to the point recently where I desire to get 
rid of my NES collection. It consists of an official top loading NES 
control deck and ~70 games (most valuable ones are original Final 
Fantasy, Dragon Warrior II, and all 6 Mega Man games). I don't really 
care about making a profit from it. And if there was a museum group to 
donate it to, I wouldn't mind handing it over.

-- 
     -Mike Melanson
_______________________________________________
game_preservation mailing list
game_preservation at igda.org
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation


From dmonnens at gmail.com  Thu Apr 30 09:52:46 2009
From: dmonnens at gmail.com (Devin Monnens)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 07:52:46 -0600
Subject: [game_preservation] Fwd:  MASSIVE e-bay auction in the UK
In-Reply-To: <49F9AAAA.6060105@multimedia.cx>
References: <9d1cf2d50904292115j7aac553dqcc2c3c1268fbe492@mail.gmail.com>
	<49F9324A.8060907@multimedia.cx> <49F960C1.3040503@aarmstrong.org>
	<49F9AAAA.6060105@multimedia.cx>
Message-ID: <9d1cf2d50904300652o43728107x67bda37265acf3a5@mail.gmail.com>

Mike,

Dan brings up an interesting point. What region is this system? If it's US,
it's more likely that a European or Japanese archive might be interested in
it more (unless it's an archive that is just developing itself - I think
most game archives would already have most of the stuff you mention as
they're fairly common). If it's UK then a US archive might have greater
interest. This is because we usually only have access to games that are from
our own region. I'm making sure Judd, Ken, and Aki Nakamura get this too to
see if they have any input.

BTW, does anyone know if European NES games will play on a US NES? I've got
a copy of Super Turrican I've been too afraid to stick into a system for
fear it would damage the system and/or game!

-Devin

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Mike Melanson <mike at multimedia.cx>
Date: Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 7:42 AM
Subject: Re: [game_preservation] MASSIVE e-bay auction in the UK
To: IGDA Game Preservation SIG <game_preservation at igda.org>


Andrew Armstrong wrote:

> Well, we have got a lagging project to get information on collectors ;)
> (reminds me I need to write up the projects and send out info to get some
> ideas going, although I don't think we have the people and time to do all
> the ideas).
>
> The SIG itself can't exactly store anything, but the members who have
> collections, archives and museums can :) but usually collectors don't donate
> a great deal of their material over time - they usually sell it, or pass it
> on to other collectors, or this is the impression I've got from actually
> talking to them (except for the odd few who do really donate things, which
> is awesome).
>

I ask because I finally got to the point recently where I desire to get rid
of my NES collection. It consists of an official top loading NES control
deck and ~70 games (most valuable ones are original Final Fantasy, Dragon
Warrior II, and all 6 Mega Man games). I don't really care about making a
profit from it. And if there was a museum group to donate it to, I wouldn't
mind handing it over.

-- 
   -Mike Melanson

_______________________________________________
game_preservation mailing list
game_preservation at igda.org
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation



-- 
Devin Monnens
www.deserthat.com

The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
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From Dan.Pinchbeck at port.ac.uk  Thu Apr 30 09:57:11 2009
From: Dan.Pinchbeck at port.ac.uk (Dan Pinchbeck)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 14:57:11 +0100
Subject: [game_preservation] Fwd:  MASSIVE e-bay auction in the UK
Message-ID: <49F9BC47020000B50008B474@stirling.iso.port.ac.uk>

Hi Devin

Should be safe for both - just won't run if it's not compatible, surely?

Cheers

Dan


>BTW, does anyone know if European NES games will play on a US NES? I've got
>a copy of Super Turrican I've been too afraid to stick into a system for
>fear it would damage the system and/or game!


Dr Dan Pinchbeck
Advanced Games Research Group
School of Creative Technologies
University of Portsmouth, UK

www.thechineseroom.co.uk
www.keep.port.ac.uk

From mike at multimedia.cx  Thu Apr 30 10:08:26 2009
From: mike at multimedia.cx (Mike Melanson)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 07:08:26 -0700
Subject: [game_preservation] Fwd:  MASSIVE e-bay auction in the UK
In-Reply-To: <49F9BC47020000B50008B474@stirling.iso.port.ac.uk>
References: <49F9BC47020000B50008B474@stirling.iso.port.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <49F9B0DA.2080409@multimedia.cx>

Surely. That's usually how this stuff is set up to work (or not).

-- 
     -Mike Melanson


Dan Pinchbeck wrote:
> Hi Devin
> 
> Should be safe for both - just won't run if it's not compatible, surely?
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Dan
> 
> 
>> BTW, does anyone know if European NES games will play on a US NES? I've got
>> a copy of Super Turrican I've been too afraid to stick into a system for
>> fear it would damage the system and/or game!
> 
> 
> Dr Dan Pinchbeck
> Advanced Games Research Group
> School of Creative Technologies
> University of Portsmouth, UK
> 
> www.thechineseroom.co.uk
> www.keep.port.ac.uk
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
> 



From andrew at aarmstrong.org  Thu Apr 30 10:12:21 2009
From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 15:12:21 +0100
Subject: [game_preservation] Soviet Game Museum
In-Reply-To: <9d1cf2d50904300645n200db16cv173b16934bb7d83e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49F57D8A.3060002@aarmstrong.org>	<49F97C48.1070109@digitalgamearchive.org>	<49F9A08A.9070706@aarmstrong.org>	<9d1cf2d50904300637x38aa22fdi5efc08c879c890c2@mail.gmail.com>
	<9d1cf2d50904300645n200db16cv173b16934bb7d83e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49F9B1C5.7090801@aarmstrong.org>

Anything would be good. The area, compared to Japan, is hardly listed in 
the history books except for Tetris, despite having a varying amount of 
industry presence, and other things happening there.

We happily would accept articles for the SIG, if anyone is happy to 
write them :)

Andrew

Devin Monnens wrote:
> Ok,
>
> I e-mailed a couple people who might be able to get me in contact with 
> a Russian-speaker locally. I also forwarded this to the Women's SIG 
> list to see if anyone there spoke Russian. I think it would be a great 
> idea if we got these guys on our international network of game 
> preservationists. We know practically nothing about Russian games 
> aside from Tetris and seeing how I don't have an e-mail connection 
> with Alexey Pajitnov... :) They might be able to produce a document 
> that discusses the history of digital games and the presence of 
> digital media (especially games) preservation within the Soviet Union 
> that we could then translate and add to our resources. Or maybe I'm 
> thinking too big :P
>
> -Devin
>
> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 7:37 AM, Devin Monnens <dmonnens at gmail.com 
> <mailto:dmonnens at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     He only speaks in Russian? Well hmm... Now there ARE a few
>     Russian-speaking people at work, but I don't trust any of them. So
>     there's nobody I know well enough to ask about translation and
>     dialogue. (Though my Japanese instructor apparently knows a few
>     words in Russian :) I can see if anyone in the family knows
>     someone who speaks Russian. This museum is fantastic.
>
>     Do they have Facebook or LinkedIn? Do they have a website?
>
>     -Devin
>
>
>     On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 6:58 AM, Andrew Armstrong
>     <andrew at aarmstrong.org <mailto:andrew at aarmstrong.org>> wrote:
>
>         Ahh, I  won't have much luck contacting him then. Hmm, a
>         little annoying. If you have a chance to get any details in
>         the future, or go visit at all, post about it :)
>
>         Andrew
>
>
>         Andreas Lange wrote:
>
>             Dear Andrew,
>             thanks for the hint. The Russian Video Game tradition is
>             indeed very interesting and therfore I send him/ her an
>             email, too. It was answered only in Russian, which my
>             (east german) colleague could translate. It was only a
>             short note, that I should visit the museum, when I am in
>             Moscow (what is actually not planned) and that the
>             exhibition of some of their exhibits in Germany, which was
>             mentioned in the Edge artcle, can't be realised.
>             Andreas
>
>
>
>             Andrew Armstrong schrieb:
>
>                 Anyone here know anything more about this near little
>                 museum?
>                 http://www.edge-online.com/features/inside-the-soviet-arcade-games-museum
>
>
>                 I meant to post this when I saw it linked from GSW,
>                 but for some reason didn't :/
>
>                 I'll try and get in contact with the owner at some
>                 point and invite them here if possible, depending on
>                 if anyone there can speak English, since I can't write
>                 Russian. :)
>
>                 Andrew
>                 _______________________________________________
>                 game_preservation mailing list
>                 game_preservation at igda.org
>                 <mailto:game_preservation at igda.org>
>                 http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>
>
>
>             _______________________________________________
>             game_preservation mailing list
>             game_preservation at igda.org <mailto:game_preservation at igda.org>
>             http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>
>         _______________________________________________
>         game_preservation mailing list
>         game_preservation at igda.org <mailto:game_preservation at igda.org>
>         http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>
>
>
>
>     -- 
>     Devin Monnens
>     www.deserthat.com <http://www.deserthat.com>
>
>     The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Devin Monnens
> www.deserthat.com <http://www.deserthat.com>
>
> The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>   
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From andrew at aarmstrong.org  Thu Apr 30 10:15:25 2009
From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 15:15:25 +0100
Subject: [game_preservation] MASSIVE e-bay auction in the UK
In-Reply-To: <49F9BA28020000B50008B46C@stirling.iso.port.ac.uk>
References: <49F9BA28020000B50008B46C@stirling.iso.port.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <49F9B27D.7020204@aarmstrong.org>

Depending on your location this is a perfect thing the list of museums 
who accept material is useful for ( 
http://www.igda.org/wiki/Game_Preservation_SIG/Contributions ) - I might 
rename this "Donating Information" - better reflects what it is.

Private projects, as Dan said, are not listed for obvious reasons, we 
certainly should get people advertising here if there is anything they 
especially need or can especially give away - if it can't be sorted 
here, selling on eBay is always a good second choice. When the new IGDA 
site rolls around I'll make sure to create a forum especially for 
donation and "need" enquiries.

Andrew

Dan Pinchbeck wrote:
> Hi Mike
>
> Hell, if you're looking for a home, we'd always take it. May be worth contacting the UK Games Archive too. We're not public, obviously, but we'd certainly look after it! Let me know if no-one else takes you up (like that's going to happen!)
>
> :)
>
> Dan
>
> Dr Dan Pinchbeck
> Advanced Games Research Group
> School of Creative Technologies
> University of Portsmouth, UK
>
> www.thechineseroom.co.uk
> www.keep.port.ac.uk
>   
>>>> Mike Melanson <mike at multimedia.cx> 30/04/09 2:44 PM >>>
>>>>         
> Andrew Armstrong wrote:
>   
>> Well, we have got a lagging project to get information on collectors ;) 
>> (reminds me I need to write up the projects and send out info to get 
>> some ideas going, although I don't think we have the people and time to 
>> do all the ideas).
>>
>> The SIG itself can't exactly store anything, but the members who have 
>> collections, archives and museums can :) but usually collectors don't 
>> donate a great deal of their material over time - they usually sell it, 
>> or pass it on to other collectors, or this is the impression I've got 
>> from actually talking to them (except for the odd few who do really 
>> donate things, which is awesome).
>>     
>
> I ask because I finally got to the point recently where I desire to get 
> rid of my NES collection. It consists of an official top loading NES 
> control deck and ~70 games (most valuable ones are original Final 
> Fantasy, Dragon Warrior II, and all 6 Mega Man games). I don't really 
> care about making a profit from it. And if there was a museum group to 
> donate it to, I wouldn't mind handing it over.
>
>   
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From dmonnens at gmail.com  Thu Apr 30 10:17:00 2009
From: dmonnens at gmail.com (Devin Monnens)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 08:17:00 -0600
Subject: [game_preservation] Soviet Game Museum
In-Reply-To: <49F9B1C5.7090801@aarmstrong.org>
References: <49F57D8A.3060002@aarmstrong.org>
	<49F97C48.1070109@digitalgamearchive.org>
	<49F9A08A.9070706@aarmstrong.org>
	<9d1cf2d50904300637x38aa22fdi5efc08c879c890c2@mail.gmail.com>
	<9d1cf2d50904300645n200db16cv173b16934bb7d83e@mail.gmail.com>
	<49F9B1C5.7090801@aarmstrong.org>
Message-ID: <9d1cf2d50904300717p48e4ce58nbb04d94e38fad89e@mail.gmail.com>

Completely agreed! Russia is a dark space on the map. Slavic countries are
continuing to have a greater presence within the games industry, and so it
is important that we document the history of Soviet games to greater
understand where the design influence and inspiration behind these new games
is coming from.

BTW, I assume the GANG is keeping a good record of video recordings of their
award ceremonies? I'm still interested in the 2006 Guitar Hero performance!

-Devin

On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 8:12 AM, Andrew Armstrong <andrew at aarmstrong.org>wrote:

>  Anything would be good. The area, compared to Japan, is hardly listed in
> the history books except for Tetris, despite having a varying amount of
> industry presence, and other things happening there.
>
> We happily would accept articles for the SIG, if anyone is happy to write
> them :)
>
> Andrew
>
> Devin Monnens wrote:
>
> Ok,
>
> I e-mailed a couple people who might be able to get me in contact with a
> Russian-speaker locally. I also forwarded this to the Women's SIG list to
> see if anyone there spoke Russian. I think it would be a great idea if we
> got these guys on our international network of game preservationists. We
> know practically nothing about Russian games aside from Tetris and seeing
> how I don't have an e-mail connection with Alexey Pajitnov... :) They might
> be able to produce a document that discusses the history of digital games
> and the presence of digital media (especially games) preservation within the
> Soviet Union that we could then translate and add to our resources. Or maybe
> I'm thinking too big :P
>
> -Devin
>
> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 7:37 AM, Devin Monnens <dmonnens at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> He only speaks in Russian? Well hmm... Now there ARE a few
>> Russian-speaking people at work, but I don't trust any of them. So there's
>> nobody I know well enough to ask about translation and dialogue. (Though my
>> Japanese instructor apparently knows a few words in Russian :) I can see if
>> anyone in the family knows someone who speaks Russian. This museum is
>> fantastic.
>>
>> Do they have Facebook or LinkedIn? Do they have a website?
>>
>> -Devin
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 6:58 AM, Andrew Armstrong <andrew at aarmstrong.org>wrote:
>>
>>> Ahh, I  won't have much luck contacting him then. Hmm, a little annoying.
>>> If you have a chance to get any details in the future, or go visit at all,
>>> post about it :)
>>>
>>> Andrew
>>>
>>> Andreas Lange wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear Andrew,
>>>> thanks for the hint. The Russian Video Game tradition is indeed very
>>>> interesting and therfore I send him/ her an email, too. It was answered only
>>>> in Russian, which my (east german) colleague could translate. It was only a
>>>> short note, that I should visit the museum, when I am in Moscow (what is
>>>> actually not planned) and that the exhibition of some of their exhibits in
>>>> Germany, which was mentioned in the Edge artcle, can't be realised.
>>>> Andreas
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Andrew Armstrong schrieb:
>>>>
>>>>> Anyone here know anything more about this near little museum?
>>>>> http://www.edge-online.com/features/inside-the-soviet-arcade-games-museum
>>>>>
>>>>> I meant to post this when I saw it linked from GSW, but for some reason
>>>>> didn't :/
>>>>>
>>>>> I'll try and get in contact with the owner at some point and invite
>>>>> them here if possible, depending on if anyone there can speak English, since
>>>>> I can't write Russian. :)
>>>>>
>>>>> Andrew
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> game_preservation mailing list
>>>>> game_preservation at igda.org
>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> game_preservation mailing list
>>>> game_preservation at igda.org
>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> game_preservation mailing list
>>> game_preservation at igda.org
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  --
>> Devin Monnens
>> www.deserthat.com
>>
>> The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Devin Monnens
> www.deserthat.com
>
> The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing listgame_preservation at igda.orghttp://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>
>


-- 
Devin Monnens
www.deserthat.com

The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
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From dmonnens at gmail.com  Thu Apr 30 10:18:59 2009
From: dmonnens at gmail.com (Devin Monnens)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 08:18:59 -0600
Subject: [game_preservation] MASSIVE e-bay auction in the UK
In-Reply-To: <49F9B27D.7020204@aarmstrong.org>
References: <49F9BA28020000B50008B46C@stirling.iso.port.ac.uk>
	<49F9B27D.7020204@aarmstrong.org>
Message-ID: <9d1cf2d50904300718y79905084je492a0c0d971cc89@mail.gmail.com>

Craig's List is similar to e-Bay, but cheaper. That and message boards might
give you better deals if you're interested in selling.

For UK games, I think I'd rather have a UK Mario/Duck Hunt to test out
first!

-Devin

On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 8:15 AM, Andrew Armstrong <andrew at aarmstrong.org>wrote:

>  Depending on your location this is a perfect thing the list of museums who
> accept material is useful for (
> http://www.igda.org/wiki/Game_Preservation_SIG/Contributions ) - I might
> rename this "Donating Information" - better reflects what it is.
>
> Private projects, as Dan said, are not listed for obvious reasons, we
> certainly should get people advertising here if there is anything they
> especially need or can especially give away - if it can't be sorted here,
> selling on eBay is always a good second choice. When the new IGDA site rolls
> around I'll make sure to create a forum especially for donation and "need"
> enquiries.
>
> Andrew
>
>
> Dan Pinchbeck wrote:
>
> Hi Mike
>
> Hell, if you're looking for a home, we'd always take it. May be worth contacting the UK Games Archive too. We're not public, obviously, but we'd certainly look after it! Let me know if no-one else takes you up (like that's going to happen!)
>
> :)
>
> Dan
>
> Dr Dan Pinchbeck
> Advanced Games Research Group
> School of Creative Technologies
> University of Portsmouth, UK
> www.thechineseroom.co.ukwww.keep.port.ac.uk
>
>   Mike Melanson <mike at multimedia.cx> <mike at multimedia.cx> 30/04/09 2:44 PM >>>
>
>
>   Andrew Armstrong wrote:
>
>
>  Well, we have got a lagging project to get information on collectors ;)
> (reminds me I need to write up the projects and send out info to get
> some ideas going, although I don't think we have the people and time to
> do all the ideas).
>
> The SIG itself can't exactly store anything, but the members who have
> collections, archives and museums can :) but usually collectors don't
> donate a great deal of their material over time - they usually sell it,
> or pass it on to other collectors, or this is the impression I've got
> from actually talking to them (except for the odd few who do really
> donate things, which is awesome).
>
>
>  I ask because I finally got to the point recently where I desire to get
> rid of my NES collection. It consists of an official top loading NES
> control deck and ~70 games (most valuable ones are original Final
> Fantasy, Dragon Warrior II, and all 6 Mega Man games). I don't really
> care about making a profit from it. And if there was a museum group to
> donate it to, I wouldn't mind handing it over.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>
>


-- 
Devin Monnens
www.deserthat.com

The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
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From andrew at aarmstrong.org  Thu Apr 30 11:02:36 2009
From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 16:02:36 +0100
Subject: [game_preservation] [Projects] Collectors Information
Message-ID: <49F9BD8C.7040708@aarmstrong.org>

Please put forwards suggestions, comments and criticism of this project:

    * *Title:* Collectors Information
    * *Purpose:* Articles and information on videogame and computer
      collectors, aimed at historians and developers. The information
      would possibly include interviews with collectors and ways to get
      in contact with collectors for acquiring material for collections.
    * *Lead:* /None/
    * *Started:* N/A

There is no one listed as leading this (someone did say they were 
interested before but I can't remember who). It mainly requires 
experience in the area (to write first hand) or some time to seriously 
gather opinions and information from the community itself, especially 
relating it to game preservation.

To be honest, since I have no idea how many collectors are on this list, 
I can't just do the research here myself then post it, which would be a 
lot easier.

Any takers, please reply!

Andrew
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From andrew at aarmstrong.org  Thu Apr 30 11:05:27 2009
From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 16:05:27 +0100
Subject: [game_preservation] [Projects] Emulator Information
Message-ID: <49F9BE37.2070003@aarmstrong.org>

Please put forward any comments, or if you want to help on this project:

    * *Title:* Emulator Information (Emulators)
    * *Purpose:* Articles and information on emulators, who makes them,
      who plays them and what ones exist for different computer systems.
      Information on what companies use them, what funded projects have
      worked on them and so forth would also be useful.
    * *Lead:* /None/
    * *Started:* N/A

This requires a similar set of work as the collectors, except it is a 
very, very small amount of people involved in making emulators, and 
finding them (some don't go online much funnily enough) is difficult. 
Some major projects, however, that spring to mind are MAME and SCUMMVM 
that need some investigation.

Funded projects that spring to mind are KEEP, as well as emulation work 
at the University of Tokyo. Commercially there is also a subset of 
industry dedicated to this (WiiWare, Xbox 360 ports, retro collections 
which all use emulation).

Andrew

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From andrew at aarmstrong.org  Thu Apr 30 11:10:04 2009
From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 16:10:04 +0100
Subject: [game_preservation] [Projects] Legal Issues/Information
Message-ID: <49F9BF4C.6050802@aarmstrong.org>

Discussion topic for this, comments or a sign that you want to help are 
welcome.

    * *Title:* Legal Information
    * *Purpose:* Legal information including but not limited to:
      Standard form for submitting donations, information on how to do
      front door and back door acquisitions when a company goes
      bankrupt, information and articles on copyright and legal issues
      surrounding ownership on digital files.
    * The information information will be from three major perspectives:
      companies, individual developers and archivists/curators.

    * *Lead:* /None/
    * *Started:* N/A

This is squarely the sharing of knowledge hidden away by lawyers. 
Finding and linking to online law resources would be a good start. Going 
further and getting a worldwide view, for all the parties involved, 
would be a great idea.

Case studies, examples from existing institutions and so forth would be 
useful. There is little way for a UK project will know enough about US 
laws to get something donated to them correctly, from the outset, and it 
would be nice for this to provide that information, as well as help 
brand new organisations.

Related legal issues that could get looked at in the future might be 
abandonware (specifically software that you can't find an author for), 
fair use educational rights to show and display material that has been 
archived, and where the laws are going in regards to videogame 
preservation (keeping up to date on the legal side as it changes).

There are also legal things which are not barriers to preservation, but 
instead actually helpful - these need to be sought out and explained.

Andrew
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From andrew at aarmstrong.org  Thu Apr 30 11:12:05 2009
From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 16:12:05 +0100
Subject: [game_preservation] [Projects] SIG Collaboration
Message-ID: <49F9BFC5.90502@aarmstrong.org>

Anyone who is a member of other SIG's might want to comment and critique 
this:


    * *Title:* SIG Collaboration
    * *Purpose:* Working with other SIG's - both on the history of their
      area (such as the history of Women in Games for the Women in Games
      SIG), but also helping their members preserve their own history,
      or record the SIG's own history.
    * *Lead:* /None/
    * *Started:* N/A

Devin has done some work with the WIG SIG already, but this can go 
further. Apart from there being people who don't even know we exist in 
the IGDA (likely a major part of the membership) there is significant 
benefit if we can help out the IGDA's own special interest areas by 
documenting or help document their histories.

There are people interested in helping with this from the SIG's I've 
mentioned it too. It however requires work actually putting together the 
articles, the research, and also working out reasonable projects to 
undertake between SIG's.

Andrew
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From andrew at aarmstrong.org  Thu Apr 30 11:14:37 2009
From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 16:14:37 +0100
Subject: [game_preservation] [Projects] Preservation Standards
Message-ID: <49F9C05D.1000201@aarmstrong.org>

Preservation standards discussion, for comments and if you want to help:

    * *Title:* Preservation Standards
    * *Purpose:* Standards for preservation - may be brought up in a
      white paper, but also will have listed information for
      individuals, companies, archivists - and also company archivists,
      so a wide area.
    * *Lead:* /None/
    * *Started:* N/A

You should be aware the next white paper might deal with this directly. 
Even so, a white paper is not a good reference tool for quick lookups, 
this information would be worth disseminating online for easy access, if 
it is the next white paper.

The standards would also be probably of multiple types. Already there 
are more then one standard for preserving books properly, and standards 
for metadata are widely different, as is the software used to record it. 
There are also different rigorous standards for digital preservation (as 
shown by the Software Preservation Society, which is one type).

Andrew
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From andrew at aarmstrong.org  Thu Apr 30 11:25:32 2009
From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 16:25:32 +0100
Subject: [game_preservation] [Projects] Videogame Museums, Archives,
 Displays and Collections (Information)
Message-ID: <49F9C2EC.2000401@aarmstrong.org>

This is to discuss the project for collecting information and articles 
about museums/collections etc., comments and interest are welcome:

    * *Title:* Videogame Museums, Archives, Displays and Collections
      (Information)
    * *Purpose:* In depth reference pages for museums, archives and
      collections of videogames and computers, past and present.
      Contains information on what is in a collection, how it is
      accessed (if at all) by historians, how to donate, and where it is
      located. Will also include yearly updates collected from each
      organisation for ongoing information. Will also include
      information on displays of videogames in non-videogame museums.
    * *Lead:* Andrew Armstrong
    * *Started:* N/A

I'm personally gathering some questions to ask, and have already 
collected a fair bit of recent info from various museums on the 
donations list. The information is intended to be in-depth, ie; not just 
a paragraph per location, but a proper recording of the efforts of the 
people working on this! While I'd be putting it up in English, this is 
one area that would really be worth translating, so translators will be 
really welcome here.

I'll be eventually formatting pages, laying out the basic required 
information, as well as a way to move through a museums/collections 
history - so it can be updated at least yearly - would be helpful.

Suggestions on questions to ask in an interview with the organisations, 
and what information would be useful for developers, and what would be 
useful for preservationists and historians, would be a good idea.

Displays can also be listed, I think, since they are important to record 
- who ran them, why, what was in the display, where it was from, and so 
forth.

Andrew
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From stuart.feldhamer at gmail.com  Thu Apr 30 17:24:34 2009
From: stuart.feldhamer at gmail.com (Stuart Feldhamer)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 17:24:34 -0400
Subject: [game_preservation] [Projects] Collectors Information
In-Reply-To: <49F9BD8C.7040708@aarmstrong.org>
References: <49F9BD8C.7040708@aarmstrong.org>
Message-ID: <49fa1713.48c3f10a.121b.ffff9d36@mx.google.com>

It was me, and I'm still interested.

 

What is the timeframe for getting this done?

 

Stuart

 

From: game_preservation-bounces at igda.org
[mailto:game_preservation-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Armstrong
Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 11:03 AM
To: IGDA Game Preservation SIG
Subject: [game_preservation] [Projects] Collectors Information

 

Please put forwards suggestions, comments and criticism of this project:

*	Title: Collectors Information 
*	Purpose: Articles and information on videogame and computer
collectors, aimed at historians and developers. The information would
possibly include interviews with collectors and ways to get in contact with
collectors for acquiring material for collections. 
*	Lead: None 
*	Started: N/A 

There is no one listed as leading this (someone did say they were interested
before but I can't remember who). It mainly requires experience in the area
(to write first hand) or some time to seriously gather opinions and
information from the community itself, especially relating it to game
preservation.

To be honest, since I have no idea how many collectors are on this list, I
can't just do the research here myself then post it, which would be a lot
easier.

Any takers, please reply!

Andrew

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From andrew at aarmstrong.org  Thu Apr 30 18:01:46 2009
From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 23:01:46 +0100
Subject: [game_preservation] [Projects] Collectors Information
In-Reply-To: <49fa1713.48c3f10a.121b.ffff9d36@mx.google.com>
References: <49F9BD8C.7040708@aarmstrong.org>
	<49fa1713.48c3f10a.121b.ffff9d36@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <49FA1FCA.3070103@aarmstrong.org>

There is no specific timeframe, to be honest - a page per month would be 
more progress then now :)

I am happy to put time into editing information, if you cook up the 
information, so it is up to you. If you take lead on the project you can 
take as long or as short amount of time as you like, it can always be 
added to or changed later however long it takes :)

I'll note you down as the lead if this lazy schedule suits you, hehe.

Andrew

Stuart Feldhamer wrote:
>
> It was me, and I'm still interested.
>
>  
>
> What is the timeframe for getting this done?
>
>  
>
> Stuart
>
>  
>
> *From:* game_preservation-bounces at igda.org 
> [mailto:game_preservation-bounces at igda.org] *On Behalf Of *Andrew 
> Armstrong
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 30, 2009 11:03 AM
> *To:* IGDA Game Preservation SIG
> *Subject:* [game_preservation] [Projects] Collectors Information
>
>  
>
> Please put forwards suggestions, comments and criticism of this project:
>
>     * *Title:* Collectors Information
>     * *Purpose:* Articles and information on videogame and computer
>       collectors, aimed at historians and developers. The information
>       would possibly include interviews with collectors and ways to
>       get in contact with collectors for acquiring material for
>       collections.
>     * *Lead:* /None/
>     * *Started:* N/A
>
> There is no one listed as leading this (someone did say they were 
> interested before but I can't remember who). It mainly requires 
> experience in the area (to write first hand) or some time to seriously 
> gather opinions and information from the community itself, especially 
> relating it to game preservation.
>
> To be honest, since I have no idea how many collectors are on this 
> list, I can't just do the research here myself then post it, which 
> would be a lot easier.
>
> Any takers, please reply!
>
> Andrew
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>   
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