From andrew at aarmstrong.org Sun Feb 1 18:07:13 2009 From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong) Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2009 23:07:13 +0000 Subject: [game_preservation] [Monthly SIG Roundup] February 2009 Message-ID: <49862B21.2050309@aarmstrong.org> Spring cleaning with agusto, January is over. We've got new members and a slightly cleaned up set of projects this month, and some good news for the coming month. Preservation SIG January 2009 Work Our white paper "Before It's Too Late: A Digital Game Preservation White Paper " is now in the editing phase. Anyone who signed up for proofreading might get a shot at it this month, and it is planned to be released along with a 1 sided summary at GDC. If you want to proofread, please contact us. I also have updated ("spring cleaned") the main pages of the SIG: the main page , and updates to the projects and resources pages. Are we missing something? Please email in. :) We also have a nearly finished SIG icon. Here is the latest design , which I've only got one major thing left to do on (improve the "shine"), and create versions suitable for lower then 64x64 resolution which it currently is in. Once finished I'll be using it for future newsletters, pages, themes, etc. From the memorials project we have new memorials for Erick S. Dyke (d 10-11-2008) , Gene Smith (d 2002-07-14) and Fukio Mitsuji (d 2008-12-11) (who was confirmed, very sadly, as having died). We still need major help with this project, from submissions from the past, or manpower to edit pages, write biographies or research people. Please contact Devin at memorials -at- igda -dot- org to help! The Contributions project also has updates, from more European and American institutions / organisations which are up for accepting physical donations of work. Soon I'll get into gear advocating this, as the project is nearly complete (enough for a v1.0 release at least). For our Internet Archive work, I've added a few more videos to collections - Consolevania Wave 1 and Consolevania Christmas Carol , a sad end to Consolevania, so go watch! I also went out and found a few contributors, so thanks to Captain Duck for his Dwarf Fortress tutorials (a game that must be in some way remembered in video form! :) ), and a few more people who are aiming to upload things this month. The Let's Play collection also has a lot of new ones, thanks to Baldurk, including GUN , Psychonauts , Misadventures of Tron Bonne , Grand Theft Auto: Vice City , Mega Man 3 , Earthworm Jim 2 , Mega Man 2 and Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas . The Videogame Replays collection also got a few new Longplays from Monty Mole, Gradius 2 , Super Mario Bros 2 and Mortal Kombat 2 . The Virtual Worlds collection also has a new video titled A New Platform - Sirikata , about Stanfords new open source platform. Finally, we've got permission to add new collections related Videogames in other areas. Currently we are experimenting with Videogame Patches , which was discussed on our mailing list a fair few months ago - so watch this space for future developments. If anyone feels they can contribute to any area we are working on with files or volunteer manpower, please contact me or Simon! (simon -at- archive -dot- org) Future Work for February 2009 I'll be concentrating on any new Internet Archive collections, but I am still wanting feedback on what to do about 3 languishing projects; Digital Game Canon , Collectors Information and Oral Histories . There is also a need to revamp the Resources and Projects listings somehow, I need feedback on all of these if possible, especially if someone wants to help with any of it (no experience in the area necessary!) Mailing List Discussions If you've not joined our mailing list , please do so. We've never tried using our forums it seems :) we stick to old-fangled email. Lots of discussions started this month , not many finished. Discussions on Wikipedia , Spring Cleaning , Mobygames and KLOV / Metadatabase , A possible new project were raised in the form of citation/catalogue standards , and discussions of the existing projects as noted above as problematic Oral Histories , Digital Game Canon and Collectors Information *which all need input*. Finally, welcome to new members on the mailing list . Let yourself be known, because eventually the mailing list will disappear to be replaced by a similar function on the new IGDA website format - meaning you'll need free accounts, and we'll know who you are then anyway! :P Preservation SIG Blog Updates / Links /Have I missed anything this month? Then email it in to preservation_news @ igda.org !/ * Nolan Bushnell to receive BAFTA Fellowship * Space Invaders Development * The Pac-Man Dungeons * Videogame History Events: Back-Byte 2009 * The ultimate Atari collection! * Websites 'must be saved for history' * Smash Pack programmer wanted Echelon to release ROM Loader * Games that smell * Donkey Kong's misrepresentation on home consoles * The Game Developer Archives: 'Monsters From the Id: The Making of Doom' * Sex 'n' Drugs 'n' Rock 'n' Roll - the game that never was * Racing the Beam: The Atari Video Computer System Released * Fukio "MTJ" Mitsuji Passes Away * Ancient Artifacts of the Origin Museum, Part II * Interview with Curt Vendel * The History Of Pong: Avoid Missing Game to Start Industry * EGM Shut down, 1UP Sold * The RePlay Files: A Trip To The 1986 JAMMA Arcade Game Show, Part 1 * Archiveteam * More on Threshold Wikipedia Article * Losing the Threshold MUD Wikipedia Entry Final Thoughts Hope you have had a nice spring clean of your office, home, desk, or at least your coffee cup. Please remember to contribute back your thoughts on our projects and work, there is no requirement to work on them if you offer words of advice, criticism or any kind of comment. Andrew Armstrong IGDA Game Preservation SIG Site/Blog editor -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lowood at stanford.edu Mon Feb 2 13:19:07 2009 From: lowood at stanford.edu (Henry Lowood) Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2009 10:19:07 -0800 Subject: [game_preservation] Need for off-book meeting at GDC? Message-ID: <4987391B.9070901@stanford.edu> All, We will have a roundtable or two at GDC this year. So my question is about something else that is completely optional: is there any need for an "off-book" meeting of the SIG or some sub-group of the SIG at GDC? Jason Della Rocca has a couple of rooms that can be scheduled for this. His note follows; just let me know if you think we should book a room for anything. > Hi all, > > As usual, the IGDA is assigned a fixed pair of roundtable rooms that > we can using during GDC week. And, we also have the usual IGDA booth > in the lobby area. > > You are all welcome to book additional time in those rooms based on > SIG needs. Mind you, given we refactored all our roundtables to be > "SIG meetings", not sure how needed this is. But, perhaps you just > want your steering committee to meet, or a specific project team, etc. > Up to you. > > See the attached xls file for the current availability. > > If you want a time slot, let me know and I'll pencil you in. > > Regards, > Jason > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Jason Della Rocca > Executive Director > International Game Developers Association Speaking of Jason, he will resign as head of IGDA after GDC. Here is the announcement: http://www.igda.org/newsroom/press_020209.php and his blog post: http://www.realitypanic.com/archives/388 Best, Henry -- Henry Lowood, Ph.D. Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections; Film & Media Collections HRG, Green Library, 557 Escondido Mall Stanford University Libraries Stanford CA 94305-6004 650-723-4602; lowood at stanford.edu; http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrew at aarmstrong.org Mon Feb 2 16:28:32 2009 From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong) Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2009 21:28:32 +0000 Subject: [game_preservation] Need for off-book meeting at GDC? In-Reply-To: <4987391B.9070901@stanford.edu> References: <4987391B.9070901@stanford.edu> Message-ID: <49876580.1070709@aarmstrong.org> Man, I need to boot up my IGDA history work, and get some information off Jason before he leaves, hehe :) great guy too, didn't realise he was there as a permanent guy for so long! As for the meeting, well, Henry, I personally think as one of the more active SIG's (we might be behind education, writers and womens, but 4th isn't bad :) ) we'd benefit from it even if it was only a core amount of people - ie; people who want to discuss the SIG itself, not preservation and history problems/solutions/etc. in general. So that means things like discussing the next white paper, projects, advocacy ideas, website improvements, outreach to organisations and people, and advertisement of events/projects/whatever. Easy enough for me to post up discussions here, but no one really replies, and it's simply easier to discuss in person. However it's a tough call. Basically, Devin is a "maybe" for GDC, I'm coming, but who else will be there on this list? Or that we know? I've not heard a peek from anyone else! We'd need some form of numbers perhaps? Either that or not worry about numbers, and have a decent meeting regardless if it is two or two dozen. I've no idea how many rooms or how long you're allowed in them for though (I'd presume an hour), but since we are more active then 2/3rds of the SIG's, well, why not? :) we need to use every resource possible, and it's not like everyone is in the same place at the same time anyway! (Once in a year opportunity) It's up to you on this Henry I think, at least unless we have at least a few more who will say "Yes" now, on this list or otherwise. Andrew Henry Lowood wrote: > All, > > We will have a roundtable or two at GDC this year. So my question is > about something else that is completely optional: is there any need > for an "off-book" meeting of the SIG or some sub-group of the SIG at > GDC? Jason Della Rocca has a couple of rooms that can be scheduled > for this. His note follows; just let me know if you think we should > book a room for anything. > >> Hi all, >> >> As usual, the IGDA is assigned a fixed pair of roundtable rooms that >> we can using during GDC week. And, we also have the usual IGDA booth >> in the lobby area. >> >> You are all welcome to book additional time in those rooms based on >> SIG needs. Mind you, given we refactored all our roundtables to be >> "SIG meetings", not sure how needed this is. But, perhaps you just >> want your steering committee to meet, or a specific project team, >> etc. Up to you. >> >> See the attached xls file for the current availability. >> >> If you want a time slot, let me know and I'll pencil you in. >> >> Regards, >> Jason >> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> Jason Della Rocca >> Executive Director >> International Game Developers Association > Speaking of Jason, he will resign as head of IGDA after GDC. Here is > the announcement: > > http://www.igda.org/newsroom/press_020209.php > > and his blog post: > > http://www.realitypanic.com/archives/388 > > Best, > > Henry > > > -- > Henry Lowood, Ph.D. > Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections; > Film & Media Collections > HRG, Green Library, 557 Escondido Mall > Stanford University Libraries > Stanford CA 94305-6004 > 650-723-4602; lowood at stanford.edu; http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fcifaldi at gmail.com Mon Feb 2 16:32:36 2009 From: fcifaldi at gmail.com (Frank Cifaldi) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 13:32:36 -0800 Subject: [game_preservation] Need for off-book meeting at GDC? In-Reply-To: <4987391B.9070901@stanford.edu> References: <4987391B.9070901@stanford.edu> Message-ID: The roundtables are never enough to come away with much of an action plan, and we meet so seldom in person. Even without a specific agenda I'd say additional time is a good idea, barring any prior commitments I'll be at whatever you schedule Henry. On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 10:19 AM, Henry Lowood wrote: > All, > > We will have a roundtable or two at GDC this year. So my question is about > something else that is completely optional: is there any need for an > "off-book" meeting of the SIG or some sub-group of the SIG at GDC? Jason > Della Rocca has a couple of rooms that can be scheduled for this. His note > follows; just let me know if you think we should book a room for anything. > > Hi all, > > As usual, the IGDA is assigned a fixed pair of roundtable rooms that we can > using during GDC week. And, we also have the usual IGDA booth in the lobby > area. > > You are all welcome to book additional time in those rooms based on SIG > needs. Mind you, given we refactored all our roundtables to be "SIG > meetings", not sure how needed this is. But, perhaps you just want your > steering committee to meet, or a specific project team, etc. Up to you. > > See the attached xls file for the current availability. > > If you want a time slot, let me know and I'll pencil you in. > > Regards, > Jason > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Jason Della Rocca > Executive Director > International Game Developers Association > > Speaking of Jason, he will resign as head of IGDA after GDC. Here is the > announcement: > > http://www.igda.org/newsroom/press_020209.php > > and his blog post: > > http://www.realitypanic.com/archives/388 > > Best, > > Henry > > > -- > Henry Lowood, Ph.D. > Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections; > Film & Media Collections > HRG, Green Library, 557 Escondido Mall > Stanford University Libraries > Stanford CA 94305-6004 > 650-723-4602; lowood at stanford.edu; http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lowood at stanford.edu Mon Feb 2 18:25:42 2009 From: lowood at stanford.edu (Henry Lowood) Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2009 15:25:42 -0800 Subject: [game_preservation] Need for off-book meeting at GDC? In-Reply-To: References: <4987391B.9070901@stanford.edu> Message-ID: <498780F6.9040307@stanford.edu> Ok, I'll reserve a time. Here's the $24K question (man, that dates me): Which day? Monday and Tuesday are primarily for the workshops, but a lot of people only show for the conference W-F. I don't need a complete poll; if you a few people answer I'll go with what I have. Henry Frank Cifaldi wrote: > The roundtables are never enough to come away with much of an action > plan, and we meet so seldom in person. Even without a specific agenda > I'd say additional time is a good idea, barring any prior commitments > I'll be at whatever you schedule Henry. > > On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 10:19 AM, Henry Lowood > wrote: > > All, > > We will have a roundtable or two at GDC this year. So my question > is about something else that is completely optional: is there any > need for an "off-book" meeting of the SIG or some sub-group of the > SIG at GDC? Jason Della Rocca has a couple of rooms that can be > scheduled for this. His note follows; just let me know if you > think we should book a room for anything. > >> Hi all, >> >> As usual, the IGDA is assigned a fixed pair of roundtable rooms >> that we can using during GDC week. And, we also have the usual >> IGDA booth in the lobby area. >> >> You are all welcome to book additional time in those rooms based >> on SIG needs. Mind you, given we refactored all our roundtables >> to be "SIG meetings", not sure how needed this is. But, perhaps >> you just want your steering committee to meet, or a specific >> project team, etc. Up to you. >> >> See the attached xls file for the current availability. >> >> If you want a time slot, let me know and I'll pencil you in. >> >> Regards, >> Jason >> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> Jason Della Rocca >> Executive Director >> International Game Developers Association > Speaking of Jason, he will resign as head of IGDA after GDC. Here > is the announcement: > > http://www.igda.org/newsroom/press_020209.php > > and his blog post: > > http://www.realitypanic.com/archives/388 > > Best, > > Henry > > > -- > Henry Lowood, Ph.D. > Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections; > Film & Media Collections > HRG, Green Library, 557 Escondido Mall > Stanford University Libraries > Stanford CA 94305-6004 > 650-723-4602; lowood at stanford.edu ; > http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > -- Henry Lowood, Ph.D. Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections; Film & Media Collections HRG, Green Library, 557 Escondido Mall Stanford University Libraries Stanford CA 94305-6004 650-723-4602; lowood at stanford.edu; http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood From andrew at aarmstrong.org Mon Feb 2 18:27:50 2009 From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong) Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2009 23:27:50 +0000 Subject: [game_preservation] Need for off-book meeting at GDC? In-Reply-To: <498780F6.9040307@stanford.edu> References: <4987391B.9070901@stanford.edu> <498780F6.9040307@stanford.edu> Message-ID: <49878176.7000801@aarmstrong.org> I'm personally not fussed, sorry! There is the AI workshop I'm attending on Monday to Tuesday, but I doubt it'd clash with a session I'd "need to go to" (and might be a nice break from it), and W-F I don't know what's on at what times, but apart from the roundtable and my group gathering, I'm not tied to anything - this would be more worthwhile then most of the stuff I saw last year. :) Andrew Henry Lowood wrote: > Ok, I'll reserve a time. Here's the $24K question (man, that dates > me): Which day? Monday and Tuesday are primarily for the workshops, > but a lot of people only show for the conference W-F. I don't need a > complete poll; if you a few people answer I'll go with what I have. > > Henry > > Frank Cifaldi wrote: >> The roundtables are never enough to come away with much of an action >> plan, and we meet so seldom in person. Even without a specific agenda >> I'd say additional time is a good idea, barring any prior commitments >> I'll be at whatever you schedule Henry. >> >> On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 10:19 AM, Henry Lowood > > wrote: >> >> All, >> >> We will have a roundtable or two at GDC this year. So my question >> is about something else that is completely optional: is there any >> need for an "off-book" meeting of the SIG or some sub-group of the >> SIG at GDC? Jason Della Rocca has a couple of rooms that can be >> scheduled for this. His note follows; just let me know if you >> think we should book a room for anything. >> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> As usual, the IGDA is assigned a fixed pair of roundtable rooms >>> that we can using during GDC week. And, we also have the usual >>> IGDA booth in the lobby area. >>> >>> You are all welcome to book additional time in those rooms based >>> on SIG needs. Mind you, given we refactored all our roundtables >>> to be "SIG meetings", not sure how needed this is. But, perhaps >>> you just want your steering committee to meet, or a specific >>> project team, etc. Up to you. >>> >>> See the attached xls file for the current availability. >>> >>> If you want a time slot, let me know and I'll pencil you in. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Jason >>> >>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>> Jason Della Rocca >>> Executive Director >>> International Game Developers Association >> Speaking of Jason, he will resign as head of IGDA after GDC. Here >> is the announcement: >> >> http://www.igda.org/newsroom/press_020209.php >> >> and his blog post: >> >> http://www.realitypanic.com/archives/388 >> >> Best, >> >> Henry >> >> >> -- Henry Lowood, Ph.D. >> Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections; >> Film & Media Collections >> HRG, Green Library, 557 Escondido Mall >> Stanford University Libraries >> Stanford CA 94305-6004 >> 650-723-4602; lowood at stanford.edu ; >> http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood >> >> _______________________________________________ >> game_preservation mailing list >> game_preservation at igda.org >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> game_preservation mailing list >> game_preservation at igda.org >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation >> > From andrew at aarmstrong.org Mon Feb 2 20:10:01 2009 From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong) Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2009 01:10:01 +0000 Subject: [game_preservation] Project Discussion: Collectors Information In-Reply-To: <497E2BE5.3090400@aarmstrong.org> References: <497E2BE5.3090400@aarmstrong.org> Message-ID: <49879969.9010707@aarmstrong.org> First project bump. I want to see if any new members have any ideas or thoughts on this topic, please read below to see my original post. I am going to do field research into this when I visit Back-Bytes, a retro gaming event in March. While I'm forming my own questions, and will be asking several people about the hobby, and about how it is relevant to historians etc., *I'd welcome any input for questions or areas that I should ask about*, I am not a collector and have really next to nothing but "common knowledge" of what they do :) Hopefully this will, at the very least, gain some links to communities, forums, websites, magazines and relevant media or coverage of it all. I'll also be reporting on the event for the SIG with photos and notes ;) there should be some interesting stuff from Ocean and Jon Hare, among others, and I'll actually be trying some of the games systems I've never touched before I bet, as well as hopefully grabbing one of the computer museums I've got noted on our contributions page for a chat too. I'll try and get this up before GDC, with possible varying degrees of success. :) Andrew Andrew Armstrong wrote: > This is coming on from our previous discussion over spring cleaning > the SIG. > > *Collectors Information* > http://www.igda.org/wiki/Game_Preservation_SIG/Collectors > Status: /On Hold/ > Currently lead by: /No one. / > Short description: /A set of resource pages on the area of videogame > collectors. When complete, will hold information on the reasons behind > it, the communities that are based on it, and who gets involved in the > work. This will be aimed at people interested in the area for whatever > reason (such as tracking information not held in public archives or > online) rather then for collectors themselves./ > > Concerns raised previously: > - What information should it be > - Who should be contacted to get the information > - Who is the information aimed at > > This needs someone to run it. Someone who basically can collect the > information and update the wiki with it. There are plenty of reasons I > can't do it very well, the main one being is I am not a collector and > barely venture into the area much. I am willing to do some of the > legwork but a collector who knows where to find information, who to > contact and interview, what information would be relevant to an > archivist, historian or developer, and so on is required. > > If you want to take lead on this, it shouldn't be much work - I'm > looking for more depth then Wikipedia, but less then a book on the > subject. Some "rough guide to videogame collectors and their hobby" > would suffice. > > I know some information was already raised, and if I am left with > doing this I'll follow some of it up and possibly get someone not on > the SIG list to do this project partially (at least providing the > information to me). > > Andrew > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From J.P.L.Barwick2 at lboro.ac.uk Tue Feb 3 04:26:41 2009 From: J.P.L.Barwick2 at lboro.ac.uk (J.P.L.Barwick2 at lboro.ac.uk) Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2009 09:26:41 +0000 Subject: [game_preservation] game_preservation Digest, Vol 37, Issue 2 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear all, I thought it was time I introduced myself (instead of hanging around in the shadows). I am a PhD student in the Department of Information Science, Loughborough University, UK. My research is focussing on perceptions of the cultural significance of games and the implications of these to preservation policies. I am in my second year and am currently conducting interviews with academics, institutions and people involved in the industry. I will be very happy to share my findings with the list and hope to get the chance to talk to as many of you as possible. If you are interested in taking part in my study, I would love to hear from you. My email address is: J.P.L.Barwick2 at lboro.ac.uk. PS I am happy to do some proofreading! From donahrm at gmail.com Tue Feb 3 09:35:47 2009 From: donahrm at gmail.com (Rachel "Sheepy" Donahue) Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2009 09:35:47 -0500 Subject: [game_preservation] Project Discussion: Collectors Information In-Reply-To: <49879969.9010707@aarmstrong.org> References: <497E2BE5.3090400@aarmstrong.org> <49879969.9010707@aarmstrong.org> Message-ID: This seems like a fairly good time to jump in and tell everyone about a survey I plan to do among the user community and gaming industry over the next couple of months (for the Preserving Virtual Worlds project, and an archives course I'm taking). I'm still revising the questions to make them friendlier to non-archivists, so any input is welcome! I'd also be very, very appreciative if anyone has any ideas on how to get the survey (once it is in final form and approved to go out by my university's review board) to the people who actually work for game companies. Questions for Industry 1. Does your company have an established archives/records management program? * Yes * No * If yes, any details you would like to share? (Free text) 2. Does the archives/records management program include : * Software design materials (pre-release versions, sketchbooks, etc) * Business records (Payroll, meeting minutes, etc) * Both * Design but not business * Business but not design 3. If not, have you considered establishing one? * Yes * No * If yes, any details you would like to share? (Free text) 4. Have you had any formal archival training? * Yes * No * If yes, what form did that education take? (Free text) 5. Are you a member of any professional organizations? * Yes * No * If yes, which ones? (Free text) 6. How long have you worked for the company? * 0-6 month * 1-3 years * 4-6 years * 7-10 years * More than 10 years 7. How large is your staff? * I am the staff * 1-10 * 10-20 * More than 20 8. Does your company use records schedules for the design portion of the business? * Yes * No * If yes, any details you would like to share? (Free text) 9. Do your programmers use an automated version control system? * Yes * No * Which one? (Free text) 10. What are your main records series/groupings? (free text) 11. What materials are included in the set of records pertaining to a particular game? * Design documents of all kinds * Development-related correspondence * Artwork, such as conceptual art, sketches and storyboards * Prototype versions of games * Game development source code, assets, tools, and the resulting binary executables * Machinima and other recordings of gameplay * Development-related maps (shadow maps, influence maps, texture maps, etc.) * Scheduling/planning documents * Devoloper/Publisher budgets, forecasting, market research, and other business-related documentation * Other documentation related to the developer/publisher relationship * Company newsletters and circulars * Advertising and marketing materials, especially pieces used for unique, one-time purposes * Press kits and demos * Legal documentation * Books on game design, development, and game theory * Source materials (i.e., writings, film, art, etc. that inspired a game) * Powerpoint presentations for conferences and meetings * Game magazines, including clippings files * Records from groups, organizations, and individuals who are associated with the videogame industry, but are not involved in game development 12. 13. Who is allowed to access the archives? * All staff * All staff and the public * People with approved requests * If (3), please describe the approval process 14. How do you determine what is permanent and what is temporary? Are games that don't make it to market included in the archives? (free text) 15. Are all versions of a game scheduled as permanent, or only the final product? * All versions * Major revisions * Final product 16. Has or would your company ever consider(ed) transferring records to a university or other institution to make them available to the public? * Yes * No * Where/other details (Free text) 17. What software preservation tactics do you take with archived copies of software? (check all that apply) * Simple bit-stream level preservation in the original format * Processed upon ingest into preservation format: (Free text for format description) * Transformed on demand (E.g. if the game is needed for a "classic hits" release) * Other: (Free text) 18. Do you practice emulation, migration, or a combination of the two? * Emulation * Migration * Both * Details: (Free text) 19. Are files kept on external magnetic or optical media, or in networked storage? What type of media/storage set up? * Saved on networked hard disk * Saved on solitary hard disk * Saved on external magnetic media * Saved on optical media * Other or a combination, please describe: 20. What do you use to describe game-related records? (E.g. EAD, an in-house thesaurus, etc) (Free text) 21. What level and type of metadata do you create and maintain? What portion of it is generated manually vs automatically? (this could probably be broken down into a few more questions...) 22. Would you be willing to answer some follow-up questions and/or would your company be interested in working with an academic project exploring the preservation of video games? * Yes * No If yes, please provide contact information or email Rachel Donahue, donahrm at umd.edu Questions for Community 1. What classic game systems interest you? 2. Do you own the original consoles for the systems that interest you? 3. Do you emulate the systems that interest you? (E.g. ZSNES, Stella, AppleWin) 4. Do you play classic games on modern systems? (E.g. Virtual Console, Namco Museum releases, etc). 5. If you answered yes to question 5, how does the game-play experience compare to the original console? 6. What gaming websites do you regularly visit? * MobyGames * Home of the Underdogs * GameFAQS.com * GameSpot * IGN * Other (Please list): 7. What gaming websites do you contribute to? (E.g. Providing game data, writing articles, etc.) * MobyGames * Home of the Underdogs * GameFAQS.com * GameSpot * IGN * Other (Please list): 8. Have you ever participated in preservation activities (activities that will ensure the games are playable into the future) for games? * Written/contributed to an emulator * Ported a game * Released a previously unreleased game * Imaged disks * Restored/refurbished hardware 9. Have you ever remixed a game or added your own content? (E.G. building custom levels, replacing sprites, editing a game to make something new like the Mystery House Taken Over project) 10. What aspects of a game do you think are most important to preserve? (Check all that apply, enter additional aspects in the free text field.) * Graphic content * Color fidelity (E.g. if something was originally played as white text/sprites on a black field, is it ok to present it as black text/sprites on a white field?) * Text content * Sound * Timing (Think old adventure games, here -- is system lag part of the experience?) * Method of user input (keyboard, controller, etc) * Other (free text) Thanks! Rachel Donahue Graduate Assistant Maryland Institute for Technology in the Humanities University of Maryland, College Park College Park, MD On Mon, 02 Feb 2009 20:10:01 -0500, Andrew Armstrong wrote: > First project bump. I want to see if any new members have any ideas or > thoughts on this topic, please read below to see my original post. > > I am going to do field research into this when I visit Back-Bytes, a > retro gaming event in March. While I'm forming my own questions, and > will be asking several people about the hobby, and about how it is > relevant to historians etc., *I'd welcome any input for questions or > areas that I should ask about*, I am not a collector and have really > next to nothing but "common knowledge" of what they do :) > > Hopefully this will, at the very least, gain some links to communities, > forums, websites, magazines and relevant media or coverage of it all. > > I'll also be reporting on the event for the SIG with photos and notes ;) > there should be some interesting stuff from Ocean and Jon Hare, among > others, and I'll actually be trying some of the games systems I've never > touched before I bet, as well as hopefully grabbing one of the computer > museums I've got noted on our contributions page for a chat too. I'll > try and get this up before GDC, with possible varying degrees of > success. :) > > Andrew > > Andrew Armstrong wrote: >> This is coming on from our previous discussion over spring cleaning >> the SIG. >> >> *Collectors Information* >> http://www.igda.org/wiki/Game_Preservation_SIG/Collectors >> Status: /On Hold/ >> Currently lead by: /No one. / >> Short description: /A set of resource pages on the area of videogame >> collectors. When complete, will hold information on the reasons behind >> it, the communities that are based on it, and who gets involved in the >> work. This will be aimed at people interested in the area for whatever >> reason (such as tracking information not held in public archives or >> online) rather then for collectors themselves./ >> >> Concerns raised previously: >> - What information should it be >> - Who should be contacted to get the information >> - Who is the information aimed at >> >> This needs someone to run it. Someone who basically can collect the >> information and update the wiki with it. There are plenty of reasons I >> can't do it very well, the main one being is I am not a collector and >> barely venture into the area much. I am willing to do some of the >> legwork but a collector who knows where to find information, who to >> contact and interview, what information would be relevant to an >> archivist, historian or developer, and so on is required. >> >> If you want to take lead on this, it shouldn't be much work - I'm >> looking for more depth then Wikipedia, but less then a book on the >> subject. Some "rough guide to videogame collectors and their hobby" >> would suffice. >> >> I know some information was already raised, and if I am left with >> doing this I'll follow some of it up and possibly get someone not on >> the SIG list to do this project partially (at least providing the >> information to me). >> >> Andrew >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> game_preservation mailing list >> game_preservation at igda.org >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation >> -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ From evilcowclone at gmail.com Tue Feb 3 13:20:37 2009 From: evilcowclone at gmail.com (Devin Monnens) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 11:20:37 -0700 Subject: [game_preservation] Need for off-book meeting at GDC? In-Reply-To: <49878176.7000801@aarmstrong.org> References: <4987391B.9070901@stanford.edu> <498780F6.9040307@stanford.edu> <49878176.7000801@aarmstrong.org> Message-ID: I'm planning to fly in on Tuesday. That would actually give me something to do on Tuesday as opposed to just sitting around doing nothing all day (I won't be able to afford the summit pass). Like I said though, it's still a maybe because I have to justify the high cost of the trip. On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 4:27 PM, Andrew Armstrong wrote: > I'm personally not fussed, sorry! > > There is the AI workshop I'm attending on Monday to Tuesday, but I doubt > it'd clash with a session I'd "need to go to" (and might be a nice break > from it), and W-F I don't know what's on at what times, but apart from the > roundtable and my group gathering, I'm not tied to anything - this would be > more worthwhile then most of the stuff I saw last year. :) > > Andrew > > > Henry Lowood wrote: > >> Ok, I'll reserve a time. Here's the $24K question (man, that dates me): >> Which day? Monday and Tuesday are primarily for the workshops, but a lot of >> people only show for the conference W-F. I don't need a complete poll; if >> you a few people answer I'll go with what I have. >> >> Henry >> >> Frank Cifaldi wrote: >> >>> The roundtables are never enough to come away with much of an action >>> plan, and we meet so seldom in person. Even without a specific agenda I'd >>> say additional time is a good idea, barring any prior commitments I'll be at >>> whatever you schedule Henry. >>> >>> On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 10:19 AM, Henry Lowood >> lowood at stanford.edu>> wrote: >>> >>> All, >>> >>> We will have a roundtable or two at GDC this year. So my question >>> is about something else that is completely optional: is there any >>> need for an "off-book" meeting of the SIG or some sub-group of the >>> SIG at GDC? Jason Della Rocca has a couple of rooms that can be >>> scheduled for this. His note follows; just let me know if you >>> think we should book a room for anything. >>> >>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> As usual, the IGDA is assigned a fixed pair of roundtable rooms >>>> that we can using during GDC week. And, we also have the usual >>>> IGDA booth in the lobby area. >>>> >>>> You are all welcome to book additional time in those rooms based >>>> on SIG needs. Mind you, given we refactored all our roundtables >>>> to be "SIG meetings", not sure how needed this is. But, perhaps >>>> you just want your steering committee to meet, or a specific >>>> project team, etc. Up to you. >>>> >>>> See the attached xls file for the current availability. >>>> >>>> If you want a time slot, let me know and I'll pencil you in. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Jason >>>> >>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>>> Jason Della Rocca >>>> Executive Director >>>> International Game Developers Association >>>> >>> Speaking of Jason, he will resign as head of IGDA after GDC. Here >>> is the announcement: >>> >>> http://www.igda.org/newsroom/press_020209.php >>> >>> and his blog post: >>> >>> http://www.realitypanic.com/archives/388 >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Henry >>> >>> >>> -- Henry Lowood, Ph.D. >>> Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections; >>> Film & Media Collections >>> HRG, Green Library, 557 Escondido Mall >>> Stanford University Libraries >>> Stanford CA 94305-6004 >>> 650-723-4602; lowood at stanford.edu ; >>> http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood < >>> http://www.stanford.edu/%7Elowood> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> game_preservation mailing list >>> game_preservation at igda.org >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> game_preservation mailing list >>> game_preservation at igda.org >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > -- The sleep of Reason produces monsters. "Until next time..." Captain Commando -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From evilcowclone at gmail.com Tue Feb 3 13:26:41 2009 From: evilcowclone at gmail.com (Devin Monnens) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 11:26:41 -0700 Subject: [game_preservation] Project Discussion: Collectors Information In-Reply-To: References: <497E2BE5.3090400@aarmstrong.org> <49879969.9010707@aarmstrong.org> Message-ID: Rachael, You've got a good list here for these. Can't think of too much to add, though the community survey could use some fixes: Question 5 refers to itself. 6 and 7 could use 1up, as that's a very popular site. 8 could use an 'other' category -Devin On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 7:35 AM, Rachel Sheepy Donahue wrote: > This seems like a fairly good time to jump in and tell everyone about a > survey I plan to do among the user community and gaming industry over the > next couple of months (for the Preserving Virtual Worlds project, and an > archives course I'm taking). I'm still revising the questions to make them > friendlier to non-archivists, so any input is welcome! I'd also be very, > very appreciative if anyone has any ideas on how to get the survey (once it > is in final form and approved to go out by my university's review board) to > the people who actually work for game companies. > > Questions for Industry > > > 1. Does your company have an established archives/records management > program? > * Yes > * No > * If yes, any details you would like to share? (Free text) > 2. Does the archives/records management program include : > * Software design materials (pre-release versions, sketchbooks, > etc) > * Business records (Payroll, meeting minutes, etc) > * Both > * Design but not business > * Business but not design > 3. If not, have you considered establishing one? > * Yes > * No > * If yes, any details you would like to share? (Free text) > 4. Have you had any formal archival training? > * Yes > * No > * If yes, what form did that education take? (Free text) > 5. Are you a member of any professional organizations? > * Yes > * No > * If yes, which ones? (Free text) > 6. How long have you worked for the company? > * 0-6 month > * 1-3 years > * 4-6 years > * 7-10 years > * More than 10 years > 7. How large is your staff? > * I am the staff > * 1-10 > * 10-20 > * More than 20 > 8. Does your company use records schedules for the design portion of the > business? > * Yes > * No > * If yes, any details you would like to share? (Free text) > 9. Do your programmers use an automated version control system? > * Yes > * No > * Which one? (Free text) > 10. What are your main records series/groupings? (free text) > 11. What materials are included in the set of records pertaining to a > particular game? > * Design documents of all kinds > * Development-related correspondence > * Artwork, such as conceptual art, sketches and storyboards > * Prototype versions of games > * Game development source code, assets, tools, and the resulting > binary executables > * Machinima and other recordings of gameplay > * Development-related maps (shadow maps, influence maps, texture > maps, etc.) > * Scheduling/planning documents > * Devoloper/Publisher budgets, forecasting, market research, and > other business-related documentation > * Other documentation related to the developer/publisher > relationship > * Company newsletters and circulars > * Advertising and marketing materials, especially pieces used for > unique, one-time purposes > * Press kits and demos > * Legal documentation > * Books on game design, development, and game theory > * Source materials (i.e., writings, film, art, etc. that inspired > a game) > * Powerpoint presentations for conferences and meetings > * Game magazines, including clippings files > * Records from groups, organizations, and individuals who are > associated with the videogame industry, but are not involved in game > development > 12. > > 13. Who is allowed to access the archives? > * All staff > * All staff and the public > * People with approved requests > * If (3), please describe the approval process > 14. How do you determine what is permanent and what is temporary? Are > games that don't make it to market included in the archives? (free text) > 15. Are all versions of a game scheduled as permanent, or only the final > product? > * All versions > * Major revisions > * Final product > 16. Has or would your company ever consider(ed) transferring records to a > university or other institution to make them available to the public? > * Yes > * No > * Where/other details (Free text) > 17. What software preservation tactics do you take with archived copies of > software? (check all that apply) > * Simple bit-stream level preservation in the original format > * Processed upon ingest into preservation format: (Free text for > format description) > * Transformed on demand (E.g. if the game is needed for a "classic > hits" release) > * Other: (Free text) > 18. Do you practice emulation, migration, or a combination of the two? > * Emulation > * Migration > * Both > * Details: (Free text) > 19. Are files kept on external magnetic or optical media, or in networked > storage? What type of media/storage set up? > * Saved on networked hard disk > * Saved on solitary hard disk > * Saved on external magnetic media > * Saved on optical media > * Other or a combination, please describe: > 20. What do you use to describe game-related records? (E.g. EAD, an > in-house thesaurus, etc) (Free text) > 21. What level and type of metadata do you create and maintain? What > portion of it is generated manually vs automatically? (this could probably > be broken down into a few more questions...) > 22. Would you be willing to answer some follow-up questions and/or would > your company be interested in working with an academic project exploring the > preservation of video games? > * Yes > * No > > If yes, please provide contact information or email Rachel Donahue, > donahrm at umd.edu > > > Questions for Community > > 1. What classic game systems interest you? > 2. Do you own the original consoles for the systems that interest you? > 3. Do you emulate the systems that interest you? (E.g. ZSNES, Stella, > AppleWin) > 4. Do you play classic games on modern systems? (E.g. Virtual Console, > Namco Museum releases, etc). > 5. If you answered yes to question 5, how does the game-play experience > compare to the original console? > 6. What gaming websites do you regularly visit? > * MobyGames > * Home of the Underdogs > * GameFAQS.com > * GameSpot > * IGN > * Other (Please list): > 7. What gaming websites do you contribute to? (E.g. Providing game data, > writing articles, etc.) > * MobyGames > * Home of the Underdogs > * GameFAQS.com > * GameSpot > * IGN > * Other (Please list): > 8. Have you ever participated in preservation activities (activities that > will ensure the games are playable into the future) for games? > * Written/contributed to an emulator > * Ported a game > * Released a previously unreleased game > * Imaged disks > * Restored/refurbished hardware > 9. Have you ever remixed a game or added your own content? (E.G. building > custom levels, replacing sprites, editing a game to make something new like > the Mystery House Taken Over project) > 10. What aspects of a game do you think are most important to preserve? > (Check all that apply, enter additional aspects in the free text field.) > * Graphic content > * Color fidelity (E.g. if something was originally played as white > text/sprites on a black field, is it ok to present it as black text/sprites > on a white field?) > * Text content > * Sound > * Timing (Think old adventure games, here -- is system lag part of > the experience?) > * Method of user input (keyboard, controller, etc) > * Other (free text) > > > Thanks! > > Rachel Donahue > Graduate Assistant > Maryland Institute for Technology in the Humanities > University of Maryland, College Park > College Park, MD > > > On Mon, 02 Feb 2009 20:10:01 -0500, Andrew Armstrong < > andrew at aarmstrong.org> wrote: > > First project bump. I want to see if any new members have any ideas or >> thoughts on this topic, please read below to see my original post. >> >> I am going to do field research into this when I visit Back-Bytes, a >> retro gaming event in March. While I'm forming my own questions, and >> will be asking several people about the hobby, and about how it is >> relevant to historians etc., *I'd welcome any input for questions or >> areas that I should ask about*, I am not a collector and have really >> next to nothing but "common knowledge" of what they do :) >> >> Hopefully this will, at the very least, gain some links to communities, >> forums, websites, magazines and relevant media or coverage of it all. >> >> I'll also be reporting on the event for the SIG with photos and notes ;) >> there should be some interesting stuff from Ocean and Jon Hare, among >> others, and I'll actually be trying some of the games systems I've never >> touched before I bet, as well as hopefully grabbing one of the computer >> museums I've got noted on our contributions page for a chat too. I'll >> try and get this up before GDC, with possible varying degrees of success. >> :) >> >> Andrew >> >> Andrew Armstrong wrote: >> >>> This is coming on from our previous discussion over spring cleaning >>> the SIG. >>> >>> *Collectors Information* >>> http://www.igda.org/wiki/Game_Preservation_SIG/Collectors >>> Status: /On Hold/ >>> Currently lead by: /No one. / >>> Short description: /A set of resource pages on the area of videogame >>> collectors. When complete, will hold information on the reasons behind >>> it, the communities that are based on it, and who gets involved in the >>> work. This will be aimed at people interested in the area for whatever >>> reason (such as tracking information not held in public archives or >>> online) rather then for collectors themselves./ >>> >>> Concerns raised previously: >>> - What information should it be >>> - Who should be contacted to get the information >>> - Who is the information aimed at >>> >>> This needs someone to run it. Someone who basically can collect the >>> information and update the wiki with it. There are plenty of reasons I >>> can't do it very well, the main one being is I am not a collector and >>> barely venture into the area much. I am willing to do some of the >>> legwork but a collector who knows where to find information, who to >>> contact and interview, what information would be relevant to an >>> archivist, historian or developer, and so on is required. >>> >>> If you want to take lead on this, it shouldn't be much work - I'm >>> looking for more depth then Wikipedia, but less then a book on the >>> subject. Some "rough guide to videogame collectors and their hobby" >>> would suffice. >>> >>> I know some information was already raised, and if I am left with >>> doing this I'll follow some of it up and possibly get someone not on >>> the SIG list to do this project partially (at least providing the >>> information to me). >>> >>> Andrew >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> game_preservation mailing list >>> game_preservation at igda.org >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation >>> >>> > > > -- > Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > -- The sleep of Reason produces monsters. "Until next time..." Captain Commando -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From donahrm at gmail.com Tue Feb 3 13:56:14 2009 From: donahrm at gmail.com (Rachel "Sheepy" Donahue) Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2009 13:56:14 -0500 Subject: [game_preservation] Project Discussion: Collectors Information In-Reply-To: References: <497E2BE5.3090400@aarmstrong.org> <49879969.9010707@aarmstrong.org> Message-ID: Ha! Thanks for catching that, artifact of a previous version. Good proof of how useful editors are :) Cheers, Rach On Tue, 03 Feb 2009 13:26:41 -0500, Devin Monnens wrote: > Rachael, > > You've got a good list here for these. Can't think of too much to add, > though the community survey could use some fixes: > > Question 5 refers to itself. > 6 and 7 could use 1up, as that's a very popular site. > 8 could use an 'other' category > > -Devin From fcifaldi at gmail.com Tue Feb 3 14:16:41 2009 From: fcifaldi at gmail.com (Frank Cifaldi) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 11:16:41 -0800 Subject: [game_preservation] Project Discussion: Collectors Information In-Reply-To: References: <497E2BE5.3090400@aarmstrong.org> <49879969.9010707@aarmstrong.org> Message-ID: Consider adding an amateur translation option for question #8. I know translating a game isn't preservation in the strictest sense, but it does give the game a larger potential audience and keep it "alive" more than its already diminished shelf life. On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 10:56 AM, Rachel Sheepy Donahue wrote: > Ha! Thanks for catching that, artifact of a previous version. Good proof of > how useful editors are :) > > Cheers, > Rach > > On Tue, 03 Feb 2009 13:26:41 -0500, Devin Monnens > wrote: > > Rachael, >> >> You've got a good list here for these. Can't think of too much to add, >> though the community survey could use some fixes: >> >> Question 5 refers to itself. >> 6 and 7 could use 1up, as that's a very popular site. >> 8 could use an 'other' category >> >> -Devin >> > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrew at aarmstrong.org Tue Feb 3 15:31:15 2009 From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong) Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2009 20:31:15 +0000 Subject: [game_preservation] Project Discussion: Collectors Information In-Reply-To: References: <497E2BE5.3090400@aarmstrong.org> <49879969.9010707@aarmstrong.org> Message-ID: <4988A993.5020606@aarmstrong.org> As was the case with Earthbound Frank! :) Looks like an interesting survey. Rachael, can I get permission to do the second (non-developer-orientated) survey at Back Bytes? I might add a few of my own questions as appropriate, and you're free to have the answers (I might take my laptop so they can type it, or just print a few sheets). Suggestions for the industry version: Question 4, perhaps you need to additionally ask "Is there a person formally trained as an archivist?" since if you are able to get the opinion of only one person from a company, is worthwhile knowing. Question 7, you might need to think of being more specific (or be prepared for a lot of "More then 20" answers). I'd mark it down as full time staff, and add a few more variables (maybe 20-50, 50-100, 100+). If a "team" might be up to 50 people, you can gauge what kind of ratio of "standard game production" they do. You also need to have the second point be renamed to "2-10". Question 16, you might want to add an option to say "Not available to the public at large, but maybe to small interested parties or for display" or something. It sounds as if they'd instantly have to give copies of their source code or design documents to everyone on the internet, hehe. Related to my point about question 7, you might want to ask how long the games they produce take to make normally - if 3-5 years, then larger (asset heavy, long production) games, which are drastically different to preserve then < 1 year projects (which might be mobile games, indie ones, web ones, who knows. but definitely different). There is also the possibility you've left out a question based on who might be responsible for assets not being worked on - who manages actually storing the material? (The individual creators, the a specific person on the team, a specific person in the company, a group of people, no one in particular...), not sure if you'd need this though, but it would be interesting to know. Finally, you might need to add (for sake of getting a response!) many more options which basically state "I don't know". I doubt many non-management people or non-IT staff will know some of the later questions for instance. This however might be a bit of a cop out, I don't know the methodology of the survey (so if questions can go unanswered). Question 18 for instance, can't let you answer "neither" or "I don't know" :) Also, I presume this is rather anonymous - you don't ask anything about the companies name or location I see :) For the community one, in addition to 1Up for options, you might want to add Eurogamer (for us European people, who don't go by USA release dates ;) ) GameTrailers and GameSpy (which is, for some reason, still separate from IGN, sigh), and possibly, (sigh) Kokatu. There's also a few others, magazine tied a lot of them. You might also want to promote the fact you can choose more then one as you do with question 10 for previous questions. Somewhere near the beginning you might want to ask if they specifically collect old videogames - interest is one thing, a collector might well read different sites (or whatever) to just someone who likes older videogames. There is also a contrast to the first survey - nothing about if they would like to help in some way, or provide further feedback - I guess this is intentional? Thanks for putting this up! Andrew Frank Cifaldi wrote: > Consider adding an amateur translation option for question #8. I know > translating a game isn't preservation in the strictest sense, but it > does give the game a larger potential audience and keep it "alive" > more than its already diminished shelf life. > > On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 10:56 AM, Rachel Sheepy Donahue > > wrote: > > Ha! Thanks for catching that, artifact of a previous version. Good > proof of how useful editors are :) > > Cheers, > Rach > > > On Tue, 03 Feb 2009 13:26:41 -0500, Devin Monnens > > wrote: > > Rachael, > > You've got a good list here for these. Can't think of too much > to add, > though the community survey could use some fixes: > > Question 5 refers to itself. > 6 and 7 could use 1up, as that's a very popular site. > 8 could use an 'other' category > > -Devin > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fcifaldi at gmail.com Tue Feb 3 16:44:54 2009 From: fcifaldi at gmail.com (Frank Cifaldi) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 13:44:54 -0800 Subject: [game_preservation] Need for off-book meeting at GDC? In-Reply-To: <498780F6.9040307@stanford.edu> References: <4987391B.9070901@stanford.edu> <498780F6.9040307@stanford.edu> Message-ID: Pretty sure I'm there the whole time, and have nothing scheduled as of now (though I'd like to keep lunchtime free). On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 3:25 PM, Henry Lowood wrote: > Ok, I'll reserve a time. Here's the $24K question (man, that dates me): > Which day? Monday and Tuesday are primarily for the workshops, but a lot of > people only show for the conference W-F. I don't need a complete poll; if > you a few people answer I'll go with what I have. > > Henry > > Frank Cifaldi wrote: > >> The roundtables are never enough to come away with much of an action plan, >> and we meet so seldom in person. Even without a specific agenda I'd say >> additional time is a good idea, barring any prior commitments I'll be at >> whatever you schedule Henry. >> >> On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 10:19 AM, Henry Lowood > lowood at stanford.edu>> wrote: >> >> All, >> >> We will have a roundtable or two at GDC this year. So my question >> is about something else that is completely optional: is there any >> need for an "off-book" meeting of the SIG or some sub-group of the >> SIG at GDC? Jason Della Rocca has a couple of rooms that can be >> scheduled for this. His note follows; just let me know if you >> think we should book a room for anything. >> >> Hi all, >>> >>> As usual, the IGDA is assigned a fixed pair of roundtable rooms >>> that we can using during GDC week. And, we also have the usual >>> IGDA booth in the lobby area. >>> >>> You are all welcome to book additional time in those rooms based >>> on SIG needs. Mind you, given we refactored all our roundtables >>> to be "SIG meetings", not sure how needed this is. But, perhaps >>> you just want your steering committee to meet, or a specific >>> project team, etc. Up to you. >>> >>> See the attached xls file for the current availability. >>> >>> If you want a time slot, let me know and I'll pencil you in. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Jason >>> >>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>> Jason Della Rocca >>> Executive Director >>> International Game Developers Association >>> >> Speaking of Jason, he will resign as head of IGDA after GDC. Here >> is the announcement: >> >> http://www.igda.org/newsroom/press_020209.php >> >> and his blog post: >> >> http://www.realitypanic.com/archives/388 >> >> Best, >> >> Henry >> >> >> -- Henry Lowood, Ph.D. >> Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections; >> Film & Media Collections >> HRG, Green Library, 557 Escondido Mall >> Stanford University Libraries >> Stanford CA 94305-6004 >> 650-723-4602; lowood at stanford.edu ; >> http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood < >> http://www.stanford.edu/%7Elowood> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> game_preservation mailing list >> game_preservation at igda.org >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> game_preservation mailing list >> game_preservation at igda.org >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation >> >> > > -- > Henry Lowood, Ph.D. > Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections; > Film & Media Collections > HRG, Green Library, 557 Escondido Mall > Stanford University Libraries > Stanford CA 94305-6004 > 650-723-4602; lowood at stanford.edu; http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood< > http://www.stanford.edu/%7Elowood> > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fcifaldi at gmail.com Tue Feb 3 16:49:57 2009 From: fcifaldi at gmail.com (Frank Cifaldi) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 13:49:57 -0800 Subject: [game_preservation] Project Discussion: Collectors Information In-Reply-To: <4988A993.5020606@aarmstrong.org> References: <497E2BE5.3090400@aarmstrong.org> <49879969.9010707@aarmstrong.org> <4988A993.5020606@aarmstrong.org> Message-ID: Actually, Earthbound for the NES was not an amateur translation. The ROM file on the internet was an official unreleased work of Nintendo of America, and was taken from an internal cartridge. See here (god, I can't believe it's been nearly five years since I put this up): http://lostlevels.org/200407/200407-earthbound.shtml On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 12:31 PM, Andrew Armstrong wrote: > As was the case with Earthbound Frank! :) > > Looks like an interesting survey. Rachael, can I get permission to do the > second (non-developer-orientated) survey at Back Bytes? I might add a few of > my own questions as appropriate, and you're free to have the answers (I > might take my laptop so they can type it, or just print a few sheets). > > Suggestions for the industry version: > > Question 4, perhaps you need to additionally ask "Is there a person > formally trained as an archivist?" since if you are able to get the opinion > of only one person from a company, is worthwhile knowing. > Question 7, you might need to think of being more specific (or be prepared > for a lot of "More then 20" answers). I'd mark it down as full time staff, > and add a few more variables (maybe 20-50, 50-100, 100+). If a "team" might > be up to 50 people, you can gauge what kind of ratio of "standard game > production" they do. You also need to have the second point be renamed to > "2-10". > Question 16, you might want to add an option to say "Not available to the > public at large, but maybe to small interested parties or for display" or > something. It sounds as if they'd instantly have to give copies of their > source code or design documents to everyone on the internet, hehe. > > Related to my point about question 7, you might want to ask how long the > games they produce take to make normally - if 3-5 years, then larger (asset > heavy, long production) games, which are drastically different to preserve > then < 1 year projects (which might be mobile games, indie ones, web ones, > who knows. but definitely different). > > There is also the possibility you've left out a question based on who might > be responsible for assets not being worked on - who manages actually storing > the material? (The individual creators, the a specific person on the team, a > specific person in the company, a group of people, no one in particular...), > not sure if you'd need this though, but it would be interesting to know. > > Finally, you might need to add (for sake of getting a response!) many more > options which basically state "I don't know". I doubt many non-management > people or non-IT staff will know some of the later questions for instance. > This however might be a bit of a cop out, I don't know the methodology of > the survey (so if questions can go unanswered). Question 18 for instance, > can't let you answer "neither" or "I don't know" :) > > Also, I presume this is rather anonymous - you don't ask anything about the > companies name or location I see :) > > For the community one, in addition to 1Up for options, you might want to > add Eurogamer (for us European people, who don't go by USA release dates ;) > ) GameTrailers and GameSpy (which is, for some reason, still separate from > IGN, sigh), and possibly, (sigh) Kokatu. There's also a few others, magazine > tied a lot of them. You might also want to promote the fact you can choose > more then one as you do with question 10 for previous questions. > > Somewhere near the beginning you might want to ask if they specifically > collect old videogames - interest is one thing, a collector might well read > different sites (or whatever) to just someone who likes older videogames. > > There is also a contrast to the first survey - nothing about if they would > like to help in some way, or provide further feedback - I guess this is > intentional? > > Thanks for putting this up! > > Andrew > > Frank Cifaldi wrote: > > Consider adding an amateur translation option for question #8. I know > translating a game isn't preservation in the strictest sense, but it does > give the game a larger potential audience and keep it "alive" more than its > already diminished shelf life. > > On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 10:56 AM, Rachel Sheepy Donahue wrote: > >> Ha! Thanks for catching that, artifact of a previous version. Good proof >> of how useful editors are :) >> >> Cheers, >> Rach >> >> On Tue, 03 Feb 2009 13:26:41 -0500, Devin Monnens >> wrote: >> >> Rachael, >>> >>> You've got a good list here for these. Can't think of too much to add, >>> though the community survey could use some fixes: >>> >>> Question 5 refers to itself. >>> 6 and 7 could use 1up, as that's a very popular site. >>> 8 could use an 'other' category >>> >>> -Devin >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> game_preservation mailing list >> game_preservation at igda.org >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation >> > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing listgame_preservation at igda.orghttp://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From evilcowclone at gmail.com Tue Feb 3 21:58:06 2009 From: evilcowclone at gmail.com (Devin Monnens) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 19:58:06 -0700 Subject: [game_preservation] Project Discussion: Collectors Information In-Reply-To: References: <497E2BE5.3090400@aarmstrong.org> <49879969.9010707@aarmstrong.org> <4988A993.5020606@aarmstrong.org> Message-ID: Mother 3, however, was a fan translation. You reminded me of it and how I still have to play it. (I have the Japanese one sitting in my closet!). -- The sleep of Reason produces monsters. "Until next time..." Captain Commando -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrew at aarmstrong.org Wed Feb 4 13:01:41 2009 From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong) Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2009 18:01:41 +0000 Subject: [game_preservation] Project Discussion: Collectors Information In-Reply-To: References: <497E2BE5.3090400@aarmstrong.org> <49879969.9010707@aarmstrong.org> <4988A993.5020606@aarmstrong.org> Message-ID: <4989D805.8010101@aarmstrong.org> Oops, that's the one I meant. I know I should fact check before posting stuff, urg. In any case, both are important. Andrew Devin Monnens wrote: > Mother 3, however, was a fan translation. You reminded me of it and > how I still have to play it. (I have the Japanese one sitting in my > closet!). > > -- > The sleep of Reason produces monsters. > > "Until next time..." > Captain Commando > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lange at digitalgamearchive.org Thu Feb 5 10:45:56 2009 From: lange at digitalgamearchive.org (Andreas Lange) Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2009 16:45:56 +0100 Subject: [game_preservation] KEEP - major European research project on emulation starts Message-ID: <498B09B4.5090402@digitalgamearchive.org> Dear All, I am glad to announce, that a major European research project, which is related to the preservation of complex digital artefacts, has just started. KEEP (Keeping Emulation Environments Portable) is funded by the European Community with 3,15 Mio. Euro will go on from now for three years. Aim of the project is to utilize the preservation tools, which are mainly created in the gamer community, for a broader range of users and purposes. The impact of the project lies also in the structure of the consortium itself: for the first time traditional memory institutions like the national libraries of France, Germany and Netherlands and researchers with a background in humanitities (University of Portsmouth) come together with organisations specialized in games resp. their preservation (Computer Game Museum, European Games Developer Federation ) within a common research effort in such a scale. I am pretty sure, that we will be able to boost the awareness of the need to preserve the gaming culture on that basis and of course provide concrete preservation tools and interfaces to do the job. More details about the project can be found here: http://www.computerspielemuseum.de/index.php?lg=en&main=News&site=02:00:00&id=186 I do this announcement also on behalf of Dan Pinchbeck from the University Portsmouth, who is involved in KEEP, too and who subscribed the SIC recently. @ Dan: Now it's time to introduce yourself, ;) Andreas Andreas Lange - Direktor - Computerspiele Museum (im fjs e.V.) www.computerspielemuseum.de Marchlewskistr. 27, D-10243 Berlin (Germany) Tel: +49 (0)30 29049215 Fax: +49 (0)30 2790126 From zvowell at austin.utexas.edu Thu Feb 5 12:59:05 2009 From: zvowell at austin.utexas.edu (Vowell, Zach) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 11:59:05 -0600 Subject: [game_preservation] KEEP - major European research project on emulation starts In-Reply-To: <498B09B4.5090402@digitalgamearchive.org> Message-ID: Andreas, This is fantastic news, very excited to see such a major initiative going in this direction. A professor here at the Univ. of Texas has often championed the idea of harnessing game emulation technology for wider digital preservation uses, and it's great to see it actually happening. And I think you're absolutely right about this project's opportunity to spread awareness of game preservation to a larger audience. Best of luck and I look forward to hearing more as things progress. -- Zach Vowell Archivist, UT Videogame Archive The Dolph Briscoe Center for American History 512.495.4405 http://www.utvideogamearchive.org On 2/5/09 9:45 AM, "Andreas Lange" wrote: Dear All, I am glad to announce, that a major European research project, which is related to the preservation of complex digital artefacts, has just started. KEEP (Keeping Emulation Environments Portable) is funded by the European Community with 3,15 Mio. Euro will go on from now for three years. Aim of the project is to utilize the preservation tools, which are mainly created in the gamer community, for a broader range of users and purposes. The impact of the project lies also in the structure of the consortium itself: for the first time traditional memory institutions like the national libraries of France, Germany and Netherlands and researchers with a background in humanitities (University of Portsmouth) come together with organisations specialized in games resp. their preservation (Computer Game Museum, European Games Developer Federation ) within a common research effort in such a scale. I am pretty sure, that we will be able to boost the awareness of the need to preserve the gaming culture on that basis and of course provide concrete preservation tools and interfaces to do the job. More details about the project can be found here: http://www.computerspielemuseum.de/index.php?lg=en=News=02:00:00=186 I do this announcement also on behalf of Dan Pinchbeck from the University Portsmouth, who is involved in KEEP, too and who subscribed the SIC recently. @ Dan: Now it's time to introduce yourself, ;) Andreas Andreas Lange - Direktor - Computerspiele Museum (im fjs e.V.) www.computerspielemuseum.de Marchlewskistr. 27, D-10243 Berlin (Germany) Tel: +49 (0)30 29049215 Fax: +49 (0)30 2790126 _______________________________________________ game_preservation mailing list game_preservation at igda.org http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrew at aarmstrong.org Thu Feb 5 13:27:58 2009 From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong) Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2009 18:27:58 +0000 Subject: [game_preservation] KEEP - major European research project on emulation starts In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <498B2FAE.9040204@aarmstrong.org> Yeah, brilliant news. I'll put it on the blog and site projects listings. Is there any way the SIG or members can help? (This goes for other projects remember guys, bring them up if you think we can help). It's a big project (3 years! millions of euros!) as well, wow. Do you know if anything will be available online (about progress perhaps), or perhaps would the work be made available to worldwide organisations to provide access at least to academics and historians? :) Since I don't own old systems, this certainly is interesting to me anyway, if it leads to some good game and computer emulation. Andrew Vowell, Zach wrote: > > Andreas, > This is fantastic news, very excited to see such a major initiative > going in this direction. A professor here at the Univ. of Texas has > often championed the idea of harnessing game emulation technology for > wider digital preservation uses, and it's great to see it actually > happening. And I think you're absolutely right about this project's > opportunity to spread awareness of game preservation to a larger audience. > > Best of luck and I look forward to hearing more as things progress. > > > -- > Zach Vowell > Archivist, UT Videogame Archive > The Dolph Briscoe Center for American History > 512.495.4405 > http://www.utvideogamearchive.org > > > > On 2/5/09 9:45 AM, "Andreas Lange" wrote: > > Dear All, > I am glad to announce, that a major European research project, > which is > related to the preservation of complex digital artefacts, has just > started. KEEP (Keeping Emulation Environments Portable) is funded > by the > European Community with 3,15 Mio. Euro will go on from now for three > years. Aim of the project is to utilize the preservation tools, which > are mainly created in the gamer community, for a broader range of > users > and purposes. The impact of the project lies also in the structure of > the consortium itself: for the first time traditional memory > institutions like the national libraries of France, Germany and > Netherlands and researchers with a background in humanitities > (University of Portsmouth) come together with organisations > specialized > in games resp. their preservation (Computer Game Museum, European > Games > Developer Federation ) within a common research effort in such a > scale. > I am pretty sure, that we will be able to boost the awareness of the > need to preserve the gaming culture on that basis and of course > provide > concrete preservation tools and interfaces to do the job. > > More details about the project can be found here: > http://www.computerspielemuseum.de/index.php?lg=en=News=02:00:00=186 > > > > > I do this announcement also on behalf of Dan Pinchbeck from the > University Portsmouth, who is involved in KEEP, too and who subscribed > the SIC recently. > @ Dan: Now it's time to introduce yourself, > ;) Andreas > > > Andreas Lange > - Direktor - > Computerspiele Museum (im fjs e.V.) > www.computerspielemuseum.de > Marchlewskistr. 27, D-10243 Berlin (Germany) > Tel: +49 (0)30 29049215 > Fax: +49 (0)30 2790126 > > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lange at digitalgamearchive.org Fri Feb 6 04:40:15 2009 From: lange at digitalgamearchive.org (Andreas Lange) Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2009 10:40:15 +0100 Subject: [game_preservation] KEEP - major European research project on emulation starts In-Reply-To: <498B2FAE.9040204@aarmstrong.org> References: <498B2FAE.9040204@aarmstrong.org> Message-ID: <498C057F.2070602@digitalgamearchive.org> Andrew Armstrong schrieb: > Yeah, brilliant news. I'll put it on the blog and site projects listings. Great, thanks! > > Is there any way the SIG or members can help? (This goes for other > projects remember guys, bring them up if you think we can help). It's a > big project (3 years! millions of euros!) as well, wow. Do you know if > anything will be available online (about progress perhaps), or perhaps > would the work be made available to worldwide organisations to provide > access at least to academics and historians? :) Yes, we will have a project homepage, where the progress will be available. Next week is the kick-off meeting in Paris, where we will talk about it. I let you know, when the site is online. For the success of the project it will be mandatory, that its existence and results are well known, specially into the emulation community. Because our aim is, to establish an universal globally accepted preservation layer for emulation programms for the next decades, the question how the emulation community could be involved in this effort seems crucical for me. It would help very much, if they take up our approach and port their emulators to the new virtual machine. On the other hand it is also very important, that the game industry knows about the project. In spite I am aware, that some of the industry players still have some problems with emulation, the time is more than ripe to bring all together at one table (what is a main focus of this SIC anyway). The set up of KEEP, which is carried out by established memory institutions, should be strong argument for the industry to become an active player in that process. So for the moment it would be just great to spread the news. Andreas > > Since I don't own old systems, this certainly is interesting to me > anyway, if it leads to some good game and computer emulation. > > Andrew > > Vowell, Zach wrote: >> >> Andreas, >> This is fantastic news, very excited to see such a major initiative >> going in this direction. A professor here at the Univ. of Texas has >> often championed the idea of harnessing game emulation technology for >> wider digital preservation uses, and it's great to see it actually >> happening. And I think you're absolutely right about this project's >> opportunity to spread awareness of game preservation to a larger >> audience. >> >> Best of luck and I look forward to hearing more as things progress. >> >> >> -- >> Zach Vowell >> Archivist, UT Videogame Archive >> The Dolph Briscoe Center for American History >> 512.495.4405 >> http://www.utvideogamearchive.org >> >> >> >> On 2/5/09 9:45 AM, "Andreas Lange" wrote: >> >> Dear All, >> I am glad to announce, that a major European research project, >> which is >> related to the preservation of complex digital artefacts, has just >> started. KEEP (Keeping Emulation Environments Portable) is funded >> by the >> European Community with 3,15 Mio. Euro will go on from now for three >> years. Aim of the project is to utilize the preservation tools, >> which >> are mainly created in the gamer community, for a broader range of >> users >> and purposes. The impact of the project lies also in the structure of >> the consortium itself: for the first time traditional memory >> institutions like the national libraries of France, Germany and >> Netherlands and researchers with a background in humanitities >> (University of Portsmouth) come together with organisations >> specialized >> in games resp. their preservation (Computer Game Museum, European >> Games >> Developer Federation ) within a common research effort in such a >> scale. >> I am pretty sure, that we will be able to boost the awareness of the >> need to preserve the gaming culture on that basis and of course >> provide >> concrete preservation tools and interfaces to do the job. >> >> More details about the project can be found here: >> http://www.computerspielemuseum.de/index.php?lg=en=News=02:00:00=186 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> I do this announcement also on behalf of Dan Pinchbeck from the >> University Portsmouth, who is involved in KEEP, too and who >> subscribed >> the SIC recently. >> @ Dan: Now it's time to introduce yourself, >> ;) Andreas >> >> >> Andreas Lange >> - Direktor - >> Computerspiele Museum (im fjs e.V.) >> www.computerspielemuseum.de >> Marchlewskistr. 27, D-10243 Berlin (Germany) >> Tel: +49 (0)30 29049215 >> Fax: +49 (0)30 2790126 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> game_preservation mailing list >> game_preservation at igda.org >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> game_preservation mailing list >> game_preservation at igda.org >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation >> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation From samurai at mo5.com Fri Feb 6 04:56:03 2009 From: samurai at mo5.com (samurai at mo5.com) Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2009 10:56:03 +0100 Subject: [game_preservation] Presentation : Association MO5.COM, french non-profit organisation dedicated to the digital memory In-Reply-To: <498C057F.2070602@digitalgamearchive.org> References: <498B2FAE.9040204@aarmstrong.org> <498C057F.2070602@digitalgamearchive.org> Message-ID: <1233914163.498c0933684d2@ssl0.ovh.net> Hi everyone ! Glad to be here :) I'm Philippe Dubois, founder of the non-profit french association MO5.COM. I was contacted by Andrew Amstrong so, here i am to speak about our organisation, MO5.COM : What we are doing : we're the main French resource for collectors, specialists and historians about computer and videogame history. Our knowledge and ability to preserve and display this cultural heritage to the public are very well known in Europe. We're focusing on: - Acquiring and preserving the largest possible number of items about computing, videogaming and any more recent digital media. Our collections house an estimated 30.000 items, including computers, videogame systems, software, books, magazines, peripherals, and so on. - Taking part in a large number of exhibits and museum projects, where we can guide the public to experience the source of the computing and gaming industry as we know it today. The main goal of our non-profit-making organization is to found what could be the first French or European national museum of the digital era. To help us achieve this goal, we communicate on our websites and in the community as a whole to collect the largest number of related items, which includes systems (computers, videogames, digital devices), software, source codes, development kits, peripherals, books, magazines, and so on. Everything that is old enough (before 2002) or rare (such as press kits) is interesting to us. We're currently completing the purchase of a spacious place near Paris where we will try to store all of our collections so that we can work on them and perform what we do best, i.e. preserving them. I'm in contact with Vincent Joguin, chief leader of the KEEP project, since a couple of years, so please Andreas, keep us informed with the meeting in Paris you were talking about please :) Sincerely yours, Philippe Dubois, Association MO5.COM, President From Dan.Pinchbeck at port.ac.uk Fri Feb 6 05:20:11 2009 From: Dan.Pinchbeck at port.ac.uk (Dan Pinchbeck) Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2009 10:20:11 +0000 Subject: [game_preservation] KEEP project and DiGRA2009 Message-ID: <498C0EDB020000B50008101F@stirling.iso.port.ac.uk> Hi everyone, Andreas has already let you all know about the KEEP project - I'm part of the UK team working on the project, focusing on metadata standards and front-end. One of the things we've talked about is how to launch the project within the games research community and there may be a really good opportunity for both this, and highlighting preservation work, coming up this year. The DiGRA conference is being hosted by Brunel University in London in September, and the call for papers, panels, etc is currently up. I think it would be a really prescient idea to suggest a preservation panel for the conference. We'd look for 3 -4 presentations within this, one of which would be KEEP and the state of emulation in relation to games. It would be great to also have another of these being directly about the work of the SIG and it's key members, leaving two papers open for whatever the SIG thinks is most appropriate. It would also be a great opportunity to get together those of us who can't make GDC and to look at how we can draw in the research community as a whole into this part of the field. To put it in context, there wasn't a panel like this at the 2007 conference, and only a single paper dealing with preservation at all at the 2005 conference, so it's long overdue. Any thoughts would be very welcomed. I'm happy to put together a draft proposal and circulate it to the SIG to formalise things. The deadline for proposal is 6th March All the best, Dan Dan Pinchbeck Advanced Games Research Group School of Creative Technologies University of Portsmouth, UK www.thechineseroom.co.uk From andrew at aarmstrong.org Fri Feb 6 12:46:39 2009 From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong) Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2009 17:46:39 +0000 Subject: [game_preservation] KEEP - major European research project on emulation starts In-Reply-To: <498C057F.2070602@digitalgamearchive.org> References: <498B2FAE.9040204@aarmstrong.org> <498C057F.2070602@digitalgamearchive.org> Message-ID: <498C777F.4070202@aarmstrong.org> A website sounds good, I'll look forward to it :) we'll help with promotion in the area as much as the IGDA can, every little helps no doubt. Andrew Andreas Lange wrote: > Andrew Armstrong schrieb: >> Yeah, brilliant news. I'll put it on the blog and site projects >> listings. > > Great, thanks! > >> >> Is there any way the SIG or members can help? (This goes for other >> projects remember guys, bring them up if you think we can help). It's >> a big project (3 years! millions of euros!) as well, wow. Do you know >> if anything will be available online (about progress perhaps), or >> perhaps would the work be made available to worldwide organisations >> to provide access at least to academics and historians? :) > > Yes, we will have a project homepage, where the progress will be > available. Next week is the kick-off meeting in Paris, where we will > talk about it. I let you know, when the site is online. > For the success of the project it will be mandatory, that its > existence and results are well known, specially into the emulation > community. Because our aim is, to establish an universal globally > accepted preservation layer for emulation programms for the next > decades, the question how the emulation community could be involved in > this effort seems crucical for me. It would help very much, if they > take up our approach and port their emulators to the new virtual machine. > On the other hand it is also very important, that the game industry > knows about the project. In spite I am aware, that some of the > industry players still have some problems with emulation, the time is > more than ripe to bring all together at one table (what is a main > focus of this SIC anyway). The set up of KEEP, which is carried out by > established memory institutions, should be strong argument for the > industry to become an active player in that process. > So for the moment it would be just great to spread the news. > > Andreas > >> >> Since I don't own old systems, this certainly is interesting to me >> anyway, if it leads to some good game and computer emulation. >> >> Andrew >> >> Vowell, Zach wrote: >>> >>> Andreas, >>> This is fantastic news, very excited to see such a major initiative >>> going in this direction. A professor here at the Univ. of Texas has >>> often championed the idea of harnessing game emulation technology >>> for wider digital preservation uses, and it's great to see it >>> actually happening. And I think you're absolutely right about this >>> project's opportunity to spread awareness of game preservation to a >>> larger audience. >>> >>> Best of luck and I look forward to hearing more as things progress. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Zach Vowell >>> Archivist, UT Videogame Archive >>> The Dolph Briscoe Center for American History >>> 512.495.4405 >>> http://www.utvideogamearchive.org >>> >>> >>> >>> On 2/5/09 9:45 AM, "Andreas Lange" >>> wrote: >>> >>> Dear All, >>> I am glad to announce, that a major European research project, >>> which is >>> related to the preservation of complex digital artefacts, has just >>> started. KEEP (Keeping Emulation Environments Portable) is funded >>> by the >>> European Community with 3,15 Mio. Euro will go on from now for >>> three >>> years. Aim of the project is to utilize the preservation tools, >>> which >>> are mainly created in the gamer community, for a broader range of >>> users >>> and purposes. The impact of the project lies also in the >>> structure of >>> the consortium itself: for the first time traditional memory >>> institutions like the national libraries of France, Germany and >>> Netherlands and researchers with a background in humanitities >>> (University of Portsmouth) come together with organisations >>> specialized >>> in games resp. their preservation (Computer Game Museum, European >>> Games >>> Developer Federation ) within a common research effort in such a >>> scale. >>> I am pretty sure, that we will be able to boost the awareness of >>> the >>> need to preserve the gaming culture on that basis and of course >>> provide >>> concrete preservation tools and interfaces to do the job. >>> >>> More details about the project can be found here: >>> >>> http://www.computerspielemuseum.de/index.php?lg=en=News=02:00:00=186 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> I do this announcement also on behalf of Dan Pinchbeck from the >>> University Portsmouth, who is involved in KEEP, too and who >>> subscribed >>> the SIC recently. >>> @ Dan: Now it's time to introduce yourself, >>> ;) Andreas >>> >>> >>> Andreas Lange >>> - Direktor - >>> Computerspiele Museum (im fjs e.V.) >>> www.computerspielemuseum.de >>> Marchlewskistr. 27, D-10243 Berlin (Germany) >>> Tel: +49 (0)30 29049215 >>> Fax: +49 (0)30 2790126 >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> game_preservation mailing list >>> game_preservation at igda.org >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> game_preservation mailing list >>> game_preservation at igda.org >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation >>> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> game_preservation mailing list >> game_preservation at igda.org >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation From andrew at aarmstrong.org Fri Feb 6 12:51:05 2009 From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong) Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2009 17:51:05 +0000 Subject: [game_preservation] game_preservation Digest, Vol 37, Issue 2 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <498C7888.8050209@aarmstrong.org> I forgot to say Hi Jo! (you oddly didn't mention your first name :) ). I've made note of your willingness to proofread, and a nice first post too - I do look forward to reading your research in the future, especially if you release it to the SIG or online, or somehow! Andrew J.P.L.Barwick2 at lboro.ac.uk wrote: > Dear all, > > I thought it was time I introduced myself (instead of hanging around > in the shadows). I am a PhD student in the Department of Information > Science, Loughborough University, UK. My research is focussing on > perceptions of the cultural significance of games and the implications > of these to preservation policies. I am in my second year and am > currently conducting interviews with academics, institutions and > people involved in the industry. I will be very happy to share my > findings with the list and hope to get the chance to talk to as many > of you as possible. If you are interested in taking part in my study, > I would love to hear from you. My email address is: > J.P.L.Barwick2 at lboro.ac.uk. > > PS I am happy to do some proofreading! > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation From andrew at aarmstrong.org Fri Feb 6 13:06:50 2009 From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong) Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2009 18:06:50 +0000 Subject: [game_preservation] KEEP project and DiGRA2009 In-Reply-To: <498C0EDB020000B50008101F@stirling.iso.port.ac.uk> References: <498C0EDB020000B50008101F@stirling.iso.port.ac.uk> Message-ID: <498C7C3A.1020206@aarmstrong.org> Hey, Dan! Nice introduction :) (same with Phillipe too, just I already talked to him :D ). This sounds interesting - I'm in the UK, I know there might be the other odd one or two who haven't introduced themselves here as well (in addition to Jo who I just replied to, there might be Tom from the Media Museum here, I'm not sure ;) ). They'd need to speak out themselves to express interest, but I'm interested in helping. Certainly it seems a better venue to talk about things then the Develop conference, or GDC for instance - those two rarely have such talks or presentations sadly. If you need a person who can speak about the SIG, I can help from being the blog/wiki editor and doing some of the project work - what we do online, our aims, what we've completed, and so forth. I've not got any formal training, or done any work preserving items (or even collecting them), apart from related work for the Internet Archive, so I'd not be likely a good candidate for any technical talk on the "how", or even necessarily on the history of any games, unless I do research beforehand :) If it won't be too much trouble, explaining what the DiGRA is, how the conferences go, who attends, and so forth would help me, and I presume others who are not as in the know as I. I don't even know if membership of the organisation is required, or how much the stuff costs :) Circulating a proposal is fine. Hopefully people who are interested will speak up, although I haven't actively pursued people who join from the UK, so if there is anyone you know not on it that would be helping, tell them joining the list is free, and contributions voluntary ;) Thanks for posting this! I hope to meet you sometime either then, or before maybe :) Andrew Dan Pinchbeck wrote: > Hi everyone, > > Andreas has already let you all know about the KEEP project - I'm part of the UK team working on the project, focusing on metadata standards and front-end. > > One of the things we've talked about is how to launch the project within the games research community and there may be a really good opportunity for both this, and highlighting preservation work, coming up this year. The DiGRA conference is being hosted by Brunel University in London in September, and the call for papers, panels, etc is currently up. I think it would be a really prescient idea to suggest a preservation panel for the conference. We'd look for 3 -4 presentations within this, one of which would be KEEP and the state of emulation in relation to games. It would be great to also have another of these being directly about the work of the SIG and it's key members, leaving two papers open for whatever the SIG thinks is most appropriate. It would also be a great opportunity to get together those of us who can't make GDC and to look at how we can draw in the research community as a whole into this part of the field. > > To put it in context, there wasn't a panel like this at the 2007 conference, and only a single paper dealing with preservation at all at the 2005 conference, so it's long overdue. > > Any thoughts would be very welcomed. I'm happy to put together a draft proposal and circulate it to the SIG to formalise things. The deadline for proposal is 6th March > > All the best, > > Dan > > Dan Pinchbeck > Advanced Games Research Group > School of Creative Technologies > University of Portsmouth, UK > > www.thechineseroom.co.uk > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > From Dan.Pinchbeck at port.ac.uk Fri Feb 6 13:22:26 2009 From: Dan.Pinchbeck at port.ac.uk (Dan Pinchbeck) Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2009 18:22:26 +0000 Subject: [game_preservation] KEEP project and DiGRA2009 Message-ID: <498C7FE2020000B5000811D3@stirling.iso.port.ac.uk> Of course! Give me day or two to get the info together and I'll post all the details here Be great to have a UK/EU get together Cheers Dan Dan Pinchbeck Advanced Games Research Group School of Creative Technologies University of Portsmouth, UK www.thechineseroom.co.uk >>> Andrew Armstrong 06/02/09 6:07 PM >>> Hey, Dan! Nice introduction :) (same with Phillipe too, just I already talked to him :D ). This sounds interesting - I'm in the UK, I know there might be the other odd one or two who haven't introduced themselves here as well (in addition to Jo who I just replied to, there might be Tom from the Media Museum here, I'm not sure ;) ). They'd need to speak out themselves to express interest, but I'm interested in helping. Certainly it seems a better venue to talk about things then the Develop conference, or GDC for instance - those two rarely have such talks or presentations sadly. If you need a person who can speak about the SIG, I can help from being the blog/wiki editor and doing some of the project work - what we do online, our aims, what we've completed, and so forth. I've not got any formal training, or done any work preserving items (or even collecting them), apart from related work for the Internet Archive, so I'd not be likely a good candidate for any technical talk on the "how", or even necessarily on the history of any games, unless I do research beforehand :) If it won't be too much trouble, explaining what the DiGRA is, how the conferences go, who attends, and so forth would help me, and I presume others who are not as in the know as I. I don't even know if membership of the organisation is required, or how much the stuff costs :) Circulating a proposal is fine. Hopefully people who are interested will speak up, although I haven't actively pursued people who join from the UK, so if there is anyone you know not on it that would be helping, tell them joining the list is free, and contributions voluntary ;) Thanks for posting this! I hope to meet you sometime either then, or before maybe :) Andrew Dan Pinchbeck wrote: > Hi everyone, > > Andreas has already let you all know about the KEEP project - I'm part of the UK team working on the project, focusing on metadata standards and front-end. > > One of the things we've talked about is how to launch the project within the games research community and there may be a really good opportunity for both this, and highlighting preservation work, coming up this year. The DiGRA conference is being hosted by Brunel University in London in September, and the call for papers, panels, etc is currently up. I think it would be a really prescient idea to suggest a preservation panel for the conference. We'd look for 3 -4 presentations within this, one of which would be KEEP and the state of emulation in relation to games. It would be great to also have another of these being directly about the work of the SIG and it's key members, leaving two papers open for whatever the SIG thinks is most appropriate. It would also be a great opportunity to get together those of us who can't make GDC and to look at how we can draw in the research community as a whole into this part of the field. > > To put it in context, there wasn't a panel like this at the 2007 conference, and only a single paper dealing with preservation at all at the 2005 conference, so it's long overdue. > > Any thoughts would be very welcomed. I'm happy to put together a draft proposal and circulate it to the SIG to formalise things. The deadline for proposal is 6th March > > All the best, > > Dan > > Dan Pinchbeck > Advanced Games Research Group > School of Creative Technologies > University of Portsmouth, UK > > www.thechineseroom.co.uk > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > _______________________________________________ game_preservation mailing list game_preservation at igda.org http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation From andrew at aarmstrong.org Fri Feb 6 14:22:28 2009 From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong) Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2009 19:22:28 +0000 Subject: [game_preservation] Project Discussion: Digital Game Canon In-Reply-To: <497E2AF3.4050803@aarmstrong.org> References: <497E2AF3.4050803@aarmstrong.org> Message-ID: <498C8DF4.1010605@aarmstrong.org> This is a bump of the below discussion. The Digital Game Canon project needs input, and I was glad Stuart brought it up before. Thoughts on the need for this, if anyone is interested in helping, or just ideas about what a good future system would help. As Henry said, similar projects in film include the AFI ( http://www.afi.com/ ) and also the National Film Preservation Board ( http://www.loc.gov/film/ ) who run the National Film Registry ( http://www.loc.gov/film/filmnfr.html ), as part of the Library of Congress A/V Conversation ( http://www.loc.gov/avconservation/ ) There is no comparable project from the games industry or related organisations. Most organisations barely keep their own history preserved, to be honest. Even finding academic projects related to researching which games are important to preserve has come up, basically, entirely empty (there is some material on game preservation in general, but not much of that really). General preservation is great, but are those top games well preserved yet? I bet no one on this list knows the answer. :) I'd love for this to be the basis of some American (or hopefully worldwide!) project which actually could fund the preservation of certain games (and related media) as the National Film Preservation Board does. This is certainly also one of the main projects which has some good stuff to read for everyone - gamers, developers, academics, and even non-gamers to a degree (just like someone who watched few films would look at the Film Registry). It'd require some real lawmaking, funding, or other stuff though, but I'd be happy if it started as a collaboration of interested archives who can store the games independently! :) I hope they would be interested in acquiring titles specifically if listed, and would be forerunners involved in the project I presume. As for how it could be run now, I'm happy with experts. It'd be good to get another GDC session, or have something put online (audio, or filmed) related to the explanations behind the games. In the future, to have more input, we could have an active committee who runs the project with input from the public (lists of games they think need preserving - similar to the NFPB - http://www.loc.gov/film/vote.html ) as well as internal SIG suggestions. A set of guidelines (necessary age, the selection of a single title or a "range" allowed, and significance guidelines) would be a good idea, made public so it has more credit. Suggestions from Devin include publishing the list in Computer Game Studies, or Gamastura (or both) as well as our site, which sound like a good idea if we can provide context and reasoning behind the decision (rather then just "a list" which is actually incredibly boring, see: most blog content ;) ). It'd be nice to advertise it further afield, but for starters - it really just needs to be got going again! The wiki needs finishing for the previous entries, or a new small website built to hold the information (I have the domains, and might be able to cook up something for this). Getting researched articles and lists of resources related to each chosen game is also important - when Wikipedia is the *best* description of a given historical game's content, you know something is wrong. These are only my ideas - the project is currently run by Henry, who's a lot more knowledgeable about game history in general, and why he decided to do this in the first place :) Please put forward ideas, it'd be good to get this going again in some way. Andrew Andrew Armstrong wrote: > This is coming on from our previous discussion over spring cleaning > the SIG. > > *Digital Game Canon* > http://www.igda.org/wiki/Game_Preservation_SIG/Digital_Game_Canon > Status: /On Hold/ > Currently lead by: Henry Lowood. > Short description: /Started for a GDC 2007 session. This project > recognizes the importance of digital game culture. The Canon provides > a starting-point for the difficult task of preserving its history. > This project will need to be restarted in some capacity in the future./ > > Concerns raised previously: > - Basis for choosing 10 games a year. > - How to get it restarted without a GDC session > - Who are the people choosing the games, and the criteria they choose them > > >From Henry, running the project: "Well, the criteria were discussed > within the group, but not openly because there was no open forum. > Recall that it was a GDC event, then it became a website after that. > If we continue the project with a mode of presentation more focused on > dissemination over the web and documentation, that would give us an > opportunity to explain the criteria > > That said, the heart and soul of the enterprise is to create a list a > la what the American Film Institute has done for U.S. cinema. The > AFI's work has been a basis for preservation activities, as well." > > > You can look back to some of the older emails on some of the points > raised, but I'd prefer if they were raised again by those who are > concerned so we can get discussing them again a bit more on topic. I > do have in mind a new website to build in my spare time (which might > take a while) to host information and metadata on the different games > we add, which is doable since we'll have a small list, and soon will > have more collections for different videogame material on the IA. > > Bring whatever you can to the discussion, although Henry leads the > project so it's in his ballpark where it goes from here. > > Andrew > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrew at aarmstrong.org Fri Feb 6 14:34:51 2009 From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong) Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2009 19:34:51 +0000 Subject: [game_preservation] Project Discussion: Oral Histories In-Reply-To: <497E29EB.8020600@aarmstrong.org> References: <497E29EB.8020600@aarmstrong.org> Message-ID: <498C90DB.2090803@aarmstrong.org> I left this open but no one has replied. Another bump, we do have some new members. This project is, really, a bit too practical for the SIG to do "by volunteer work" as all SIG's operate (with most of our work going on online). With no money, and no one seeking out sponsorship, donations, or funding, we don't have any equipment (nevermind manpower and transport) to do this actively, even though it is an excellent idea, and we'd likely be able to find interested developers to participate. So, perhaps it can help by cataloguing other efforts in the area, preserving them on the Internet Archive, and helping logistically and with advertising the service. If anyone also did want to do histories through us somehow, having the final result freely available online or in an archive would be invaluable. This is tough to setup without people who are in industry available to be "on call" or to sign up, and without people who want to do the recordings in the first place! It's a lot of work on both sides (finding time for both, and possibly major travelling, preparing and researching, equipment, post-production...) Therefore, this project is going no where with no active interest. I personally can put forward weekend time and possibly take days off to record things, but since I have no videocamera I can't help directly. I would like to investigate setting up a signup form for both sides - the interviewers and interviewees so we can get a good list of people (and their location, what they did) to do interviews with, and who to send, and get people talking this way. There is a possibility that this is better done informally, however, or maybe through the new IGDA site which is mainly forum based (with mailing lists possible, just really being forum posts being sent to accounts, with replies being allowed), and thus developers would easily be able to get involved with the SIG and discuss it on forums or via. PM's/email. There was some possible interest from Dean O'Donnell from WPI, who is running an oral histories project with student help. Other then this I know of no proper active oral histories project, save Jason Scott's GET LAMP documentary, which is basically edited oral histories (which I hope he puts online in full :) ). Andrew Andrew Armstrong wrote: > This is coming on from our previous discussion over spring cleaning > the SIG. > > *Oral Histories* > Status: /On Hold/ > Currently lead by: /No one. / > Short description: /Interviews with industry people related to their > past works. Brought up at GDC 2008, but currently has no assigned > project lead./ > > Concerns raised previously: > - Aims of the histories, contents, etc. > - What to ask (I brought this up before) > - Who can do them > > Someone to work on this or start organising a team of people would be > good. Logistically this is the hardest project to manage, and > technically we have no resources to fund it at all, meaning it > requires heavy volunteer work. > > People suggesting information, examples of existing histories done, > ways to get this going, and so forth are welcome. Basically bring > whatever you like to the table, it's an open discussion. > > Andrew > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From donahrm at gmail.com Fri Feb 6 14:42:06 2009 From: donahrm at gmail.com (Rachel Donahue) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 14:42:06 -0500 Subject: [game_preservation] Project Discussion: Oral Histories In-Reply-To: <498C90DB.2090803@aarmstrong.org> References: <497E29EB.8020600@aarmstrong.org> <498C90DB.2090803@aarmstrong.org> Message-ID: Andrew -- If my survey generates any "yes I'm interested in follow up questions" responses, I'd be happy to conduct an oral history with them. Given my piddling grad student budget it will probably have to be by phone, but I can see if anyone would be willing to have the interview recorded and podcast. On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 2:34 PM, Andrew Armstrong wrote: > I left this open but no one has replied. Another bump, we do have some new > members. > > This project is, really, a bit too practical for the SIG to do "by > volunteer work" as all SIG's operate (with most of our work going on > online). With no money, and no one seeking out sponsorship, donations, or > funding, we don't have any equipment (nevermind manpower and transport) to > do this actively, even though it is an excellent idea, and we'd likely be > able to find interested developers to participate. > > So, perhaps it can help by cataloguing other efforts in the area, > preserving them on the Internet Archive, and helping logistically and with > advertising the service. If anyone also did want to do histories through us > somehow, having the final result freely available online or in an archive > would be invaluable. This is tough to setup without people who are in > industry available to be "on call" or to sign up, and without people who > want to do the recordings in the first place! It's a lot of work on both > sides (finding time for both, and possibly major travelling, preparing and > researching, equipment, post-production...) > > Therefore, this project is going no where with no active interest. I > personally can put forward weekend time and possibly take days off to record > things, but since I have no videocamera I can't help directly. I would like > to investigate setting up a signup form for both sides - the interviewers > and interviewees so we can get a good list of people (and their location, > what they did) to do interviews with, and who to send, and get people > talking this way. There is a possibility that this is better done > informally, however, or maybe through the new IGDA site which is mainly > forum based (with mailing lists possible, just really being forum posts > being sent to accounts, with replies being allowed), and thus developers > would easily be able to get involved with the SIG and discuss it on forums > or via. PM's/email. > > There was some possible interest from Dean O'Donnell from WPI, who is > running an oral histories project with student help. Other then this I know > of no proper active oral histories project, save Jason Scott's GET LAMP > documentary, which is basically edited oral histories (which I hope he puts > online in full :) ). > > Andrew > > Andrew Armstrong wrote: > > This is coming on from our previous discussion over spring cleaning the > SIG. > > *Oral Histories* > Status: *On Hold* > Currently lead by: *No one. * > Short description: *Interviews with industry people related to their past > works. Brought up at GDC 2008, but currently has no assigned project lead. > * > > Concerns raised previously: > - Aims of the histories, contents, etc. > - What to ask (I brought this up before) > - Who can do them > > Someone to work on this or start organising a team of people would be good. > Logistically this is the hardest project to manage, and technically we have > no resources to fund it at all, meaning it requires heavy volunteer work. > > People suggesting information, examples of existing histories done, ways to > get this going, and so forth are welcome. Basically bring whatever you like > to the table, it's an open discussion. > > Andrew > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing listgame_preservation at igda.orghttp://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrew at aarmstrong.org Fri Feb 6 14:46:26 2009 From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong) Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2009 19:46:26 +0000 Subject: [game_preservation] Project Discussion: Oral Histories In-Reply-To: References: <497E29EB.8020600@aarmstrong.org> <498C90DB.2090803@aarmstrong.org> Message-ID: <498C9392.10603@aarmstrong.org> Podcasts, phone or Skype interviews would be damn good if you can do them :) I missed that out, since I mainly aimed my thoughts at video recorded items. Even if the project isn't manned, I'm still interested in seeing them online - the IA can provide hosting for the media, I'll be able to create a wiki page listing them easily enough too. Please do provide them if you're able :) Andrew Rachel Donahue wrote: > Andrew -- > If my survey generates any "yes I'm interested in follow up questions" > responses, I'd be happy to conduct an oral history with them. Given my > piddling grad student budget it will probably have to be by phone, but > I can see if anyone would be willing to have the interview recorded > and podcast. > > On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 2:34 PM, Andrew Armstrong > > wrote: > > I left this open but no one has replied. Another bump, we do have > some new members. > > This project is, really, a bit too practical for the SIG to do "by > volunteer work" as all SIG's operate (with most of our work going > on online). With no money, and no one seeking out sponsorship, > donations, or funding, we don't have any equipment (nevermind > manpower and transport) to do this actively, even though it is an > excellent idea, and we'd likely be able to find interested > developers to participate. > > So, perhaps it can help by cataloguing other efforts in the area, > preserving them on the Internet Archive, and helping logistically > and with advertising the service. If anyone also did want to do > histories through us somehow, having the final result freely > available online or in an archive would be invaluable. This is > tough to setup without people who are in industry available to be > "on call" or to sign up, and without people who want to do the > recordings in the first place! It's a lot of work on both sides > (finding time for both, and possibly major travelling, preparing > and researching, equipment, post-production...) > > Therefore, this project is going no where with no active interest. > I personally can put forward weekend time and possibly take days > off to record things, but since I have no videocamera I can't help > directly. I would like to investigate setting up a signup form for > both sides - the interviewers and interviewees so we can get a > good list of people (and their location, what they did) to do > interviews with, and who to send, and get people talking this way. > There is a possibility that this is better done informally, > however, or maybe through the new IGDA site which is mainly forum > based (with mailing lists possible, just really being forum posts > being sent to accounts, with replies being allowed), and thus > developers would easily be able to get involved with the SIG and > discuss it on forums or via. PM's/email. > > There was some possible interest from Dean O'Donnell from WPI, who > is running an oral histories project with student help. Other then > this I know of no proper active oral histories project, save Jason > Scott's GET LAMP documentary, which is basically edited oral > histories (which I hope he puts online in full :) ). > > Andrew > > Andrew Armstrong wrote: >> This is coming on from our previous discussion over spring >> cleaning the SIG. >> >> *Oral Histories* >> Status: /On Hold/ >> Currently lead by: /No one. / >> Short description: /Interviews with industry people related to >> their past works. Brought up at GDC 2008, but currently has no >> assigned project lead./ >> >> Concerns raised previously: >> - Aims of the histories, contents, etc. >> - What to ask (I brought this up before) >> - Who can do them >> >> Someone to work on this or start organising a team of people >> would be good. Logistically this is the hardest project to >> manage, and technically we have no resources to fund it at all, >> meaning it requires heavy volunteer work. >> >> People suggesting information, examples of existing histories >> done, ways to get this going, and so forth are welcome. Basically >> bring whatever you like to the table, it's an open discussion. >> >> Andrew >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> game_preservation mailing list >> game_preservation at igda.org >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation >> > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dodo at WPI.EDU Fri Feb 6 14:51:14 2009 From: dodo at WPI.EDU (O'Donnell, Dean M) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 14:51:14 -0500 Subject: [game_preservation] Project Discussion: Oral Histories In-Reply-To: <498C90DB.2090803@aarmstrong.org> References: <497E29EB.8020600@aarmstrong.org> <498C90DB.2090803@aarmstrong.org> Message-ID: Sorry, I subscribed and have been a bit inundated with other things, so only noticed this when it popped up just now. Introduction: I'm on the faculty at Worcester Polytechnic Institute in the Interactive Media and Game Development program. We've been working on an archive that focuses on New England developers. My colleague David Finkel, and our archivist, Rodney Obien spearhead that project. The Oral History Project: I work with oral histories. Specifically, each year I train some students to collect and record them. I work with Jason Scott on this (he's local to us), and he's been willing to host our raw footage while the students edit and compile by person and subject. The work has gone slowly mostly because I'm still learning and I start with new students every year. Next year we'll have 6 or 7 oral histories collected, which seems like enough to go "prime time" and set up a web page. We'd welcome the backing of the IDGA and making it a joint effort of the IDGA and WPI seems like a perfectly reasonable way forward. I have the students, the equipment, and the web hosting; the IDGA has developers. We've been dealing with local developers and that can continue for awhile (Boston has a pretty good community), with work on how to expand beyond our area as part of next year's project. I would be happy to head the this project for the IDGA as long as the list doesn't mind when every fall I call for volunteers or introductions to developers to be interviewed. Best, Dean ____________________________________________ Dean O'Donnell Associate Director, Interactive Media and Game Development Dept. of Humanities and Arts WPI dodo at wpi.edu Phone: 508-831-5947 Fax: 508-831-5932 From: game_preservation-bounces at igda.org [mailto:game_preservation-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Armstrong Sent: Friday, February 06, 2009 2:35 PM To: IGDA Game Preservation SIG Subject: Re: [game_preservation] Project Discussion: Oral Histories I left this open but no one has replied. Another bump, we do have some new members. This project is, really, a bit too practical for the SIG to do "by volunteer work" as all SIG's operate (with most of our work going on online). With no money, and no one seeking out sponsorship, donations, or funding, we don't have any equipment (nevermind manpower and transport) to do this actively, even though it is an excellent idea, and we'd likely be able to find interested developers to participate. So, perhaps it can help by cataloguing other efforts in the area, preserving them on the Internet Archive, and helping logistically and with advertising the service. If anyone also did want to do histories through us somehow, having the final result freely available online or in an archive would be invaluable. This is tough to setup without people who are in industry available to be "on call" or to sign up, and without people who want to do the recordings in the first place! It's a lot of work on both sides (finding time for both, and possibly major travelling, preparing and researching, equipment, post-production...) Therefore, this project is going no where with no active interest. I personally can put forward weekend time and possibly take days off to record things, but since I have no videocamera I can't help directly. I would like to investigate setting up a signup form for both sides - the interviewers and interviewees so we can get a good list of people (and their location, what they did) to do interviews with, and who to send, and get people talking this way. There is a possibility that this is better done informally, however, or maybe through the new IGDA site which is mainly forum based (with mailing lists possible, just really being forum posts being sent to accounts, with replies being allowed), and thus developers would easily be able to get involved with the SIG and discuss it on forums or via. PM's/email. There was some possible interest from Dean O'Donnell from WPI, who is running an oral histories project with student help. Other then this I know of no proper active oral histories project, save Jason Scott's GET LAMP documentary, which is basically edited oral histories (which I hope he puts online in full :) ). Andrew Andrew Armstrong wrote: This is coming on from our previous discussion over spring cleaning the SIG. Oral Histories Status: On Hold Currently lead by: No one. Short description: Interviews with industry people related to their past works. Brought up at GDC 2008, but currently has no assigned project lead. Concerns raised previously: - Aims of the histories, contents, etc. - What to ask (I brought this up before) - Who can do them Someone to work on this or start organising a team of people would be good. Logistically this is the hardest project to manage, and technically we have no resources to fund it at all, meaning it requires heavy volunteer work. People suggesting information, examples of existing histories done, ways to get this going, and so forth are welcome. Basically bring whatever you like to the table, it's an open discussion. Andrew ________________________________ _______________________________________________ game_preservation mailing list game_preservation at igda.org http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrew at aarmstrong.org Fri Feb 6 15:06:19 2009 From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong) Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2009 20:06:19 +0000 Subject: [game_preservation] Project Discussion: Oral Histories In-Reply-To: References: <497E29EB.8020600@aarmstrong.org> <498C90DB.2090803@aarmstrong.org> Message-ID: <498C983B.4050205@aarmstrong.org> It'd be a pleasure for you to take on the project if Henry agrees :) You'd need to have an IGDA.org account to edit the wiki, which no doubt would have the IGDA's information on how to get involved (for developers) which you might need to sort. Hopefully there'll be other efforts in the future which the project can keep up with - like Rachel's contributions, and other's. I doubt there'd be any competition if anyone else wanted to "use the list" of available developers - there's more developers then people working in all the game history community :) I can check with someone at the IGDA about putting a call out in a newsletter (which goes out monthly) or as a news piece, when the appropriate time comes up to publicise it - you can obviously actually write the details if we're able to do this :) Feel free to make edits to the wiki, or suggest how you want it to work here first if you like (I can do wiki editing as needed of course too, I do so for the other projects). For hosting, I'd love a mirror of whatever files be made available on the Internet Archive, we have collections for interviews, which these would be awesome to add to. :) It'd be all credit to your team though, and rights reserved as you'd like, of course. It mainly helps make it available, which was one of the projects aims when initially thought out. Andrew O'Donnell, Dean M wrote: > > Sorry, I subscribed and have been a bit inundated with other things, > so only noticed this when it popped up just now. > > > > Introduction: I'm on the faculty at Worcester Polytechnic Institute > in the Interactive Media and Game Development program. We've been > working on an archive that focuses on New England developers. My > colleague David Finkel, and our archivist, Rodney Obien spearhead that > project. > > > > The Oral History Project: I work with oral histories. Specifically, > each year I train some students to collect and record them. I work > with Jason Scott on this (he's local to us), and he's been willing to > host our raw footage while the students edit and compile by person and > subject. The work has gone slowly mostly because I'm still learning > and I start with new students every year. > > > > Next year we'll have 6 or 7 oral histories collected, which seems like > enough to go "prime time" and set up a web page. We'd welcome the > backing of the IDGA and making it a joint effort of the IDGA and WPI > seems like a perfectly reasonable way forward. I have the students, > the equipment, and the web hosting; the IDGA has developers. We've > been dealing with local developers and that can continue for awhile > (Boston has a pretty good community), with work on how to expand > beyond our area as part of next year's project. > > > > I would be happy to head the this project for the IDGA as long as the > list doesn't mind when every fall I call for volunteers or > introductions to developers to be interviewed. > > > > Best, > > Dean > > > > ____________________________________________ > Dean O'Donnell Associate Director, > Interactive Media and Game Development > Dept. of Humanities and Arts WPI > dodo at wpi.edu > Phone: 508-831-5947 > Fax: 508-831-5932 > > > > *From:* game_preservation-bounces at igda.org > [mailto:game_preservation-bounces at igda.org] *On Behalf Of *Andrew > Armstrong > *Sent:* Friday, February 06, 2009 2:35 PM > *To:* IGDA Game Preservation SIG > *Subject:* Re: [game_preservation] Project Discussion: Oral Histories > > > > I left this open but no one has replied. Another bump, we do have some > new members. > > This project is, really, a bit too practical for the SIG to do "by > volunteer work" as all SIG's operate (with most of our work going on > online). With no money, and no one seeking out sponsorship, donations, > or funding, we don't have any equipment (nevermind manpower and > transport) to do this actively, even though it is an excellent idea, > and we'd likely be able to find interested developers to participate. > > So, perhaps it can help by cataloguing other efforts in the area, > preserving them on the Internet Archive, and helping logistically and > with advertising the service. If anyone also did want to do histories > through us somehow, having the final result freely available online or > in an archive would be invaluable. This is tough to setup without > people who are in industry available to be "on call" or to sign up, > and without people who want to do the recordings in the first place! > It's a lot of work on both sides (finding time for both, and possibly > major travelling, preparing and researching, equipment, > post-production...) > > Therefore, this project is going no where with no active interest. I > personally can put forward weekend time and possibly take days off to > record things, but since I have no videocamera I can't help directly. > I would like to investigate setting up a signup form for both sides - > the interviewers and interviewees so we can get a good list of people > (and their location, what they did) to do interviews with, and who to > send, and get people talking this way. There is a possibility that > this is better done informally, however, or maybe through the new IGDA > site which is mainly forum based (with mailing lists possible, just > really being forum posts being sent to accounts, with replies being > allowed), and thus developers would easily be able to get involved > with the SIG and discuss it on forums or via. PM's/email. > > There was some possible interest from Dean O'Donnell from WPI, who is > running an oral histories project with student help. Other then this I > know of no proper active oral histories project, save Jason Scott's > GET LAMP documentary, which is basically edited oral histories (which > I hope he puts online in full :) ). > > Andrew > > Andrew Armstrong wrote: > > This is coming on from our previous discussion over spring cleaning > the SIG. > > *Oral Histories* > Status: /On Hold/ > Currently lead by: /No one. / > Short description: /Interviews with industry people related to their > past works. Brought up at GDC 2008, but currently has no assigned > project lead./ > > Concerns raised previously: > - Aims of the histories, contents, etc. > - What to ask (I brought this up before) > - Who can do them > > Someone to work on this or start organising a team of people would be > good. Logistically this is the hardest project to manage, and > technically we have no resources to fund it at all, meaning it > requires heavy volunteer work. > > People suggesting information, examples of existing histories done, > ways to get this going, and so forth are welcome. Basically bring > whatever you like to the table, it's an open discussion. > > Andrew > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From evilcowclone at gmail.com Fri Feb 6 15:08:38 2009 From: evilcowclone at gmail.com (Devin Monnens) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 13:08:38 -0700 Subject: [game_preservation] Presentation : Association MO5.COM, french non-profit organisation dedicated to the digital memory In-Reply-To: <1233914163.498c0933684d2@ssl0.ovh.net> References: <498B2FAE.9040204@aarmstrong.org> <498C057F.2070602@digitalgamearchive.org> <1233914163.498c0933684d2@ssl0.ovh.net> Message-ID: Philippe, Thank you for contacting the IGDA Game Preservation SIG! Looks like an interesting database. To what extent does your collection cover mainframe computer software and games? One of my current interests is in the development of mainframe computer games from 1962 to 1972, and I think it would be useful to examine the nature of entertainment software on computers in other countries during this time. Devin Monnens On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 2:56 AM, wrote: > Hi everyone ! > > Glad to be here :) > I'm Philippe Dubois, founder of the non-profit french association MO5.COM. > I was > contacted by Andrew Amstrong so, here i am to speak about our organisation, > MO5.COM : > > What we are doing : we're the main French resource for collectors, > specialists and historians about computer and videogame history. > Our knowledge and ability to preserve and display this cultural > heritage to the public are very well known in Europe. > > We're focusing on: > - Acquiring and preserving the largest possible number of items about > computing, videogaming and any more recent digital media. Our > collections house an estimated 30.000 items, including computers, > videogame systems, software, books, magazines, peripherals, and so on. > - Taking part in a large number of exhibits and museum projects, where > we can guide the public to experience the source of the computing > and gaming industry as we know it today. > > The main goal of our non-profit-making organization is to found what > could be the first French or European national museum of the > digital era. > > To help us achieve this goal, we communicate on our websites and in > the community as a whole to collect the largest number of related > items, which includes systems (computers, videogames, digital > devices), software, source codes, development kits, peripherals, > books, magazines, and so on. Everything that is old enough > (before 2002) or rare (such as press kits) is interesting to us. > We're currently completing the purchase of a spacious place near > Paris where we will try to store all of our collections so that we > can work on them and perform what we do best, i.e. preserving them. > > I'm in contact with Vincent Joguin, chief leader of the KEEP project, since > a > couple of years, so please Andreas, keep us informed with the meeting in > Paris > you were talking about please :) > > Sincerely yours, > Philippe Dubois, Association MO5.COM , President > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > -- The sleep of Reason produces monsters. "Until next time..." Captain Commando -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From evilcowclone at gmail.com Fri Feb 6 15:29:07 2009 From: evilcowclone at gmail.com (Devin Monnens) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 13:29:07 -0700 Subject: [game_preservation] Project Discussion: Digital Game Canon In-Reply-To: <498C8DF4.1010605@aarmstrong.org> References: <497E2AF3.4050803@aarmstrong.org> <498C8DF4.1010605@aarmstrong.org> Message-ID: Good points, Andrew. I actually want to compile a list of titles that might be included in a library in an academic setting. This would obviously vary depending on the institution and its focus, but there should definitely be a list of games that would be included in a canon. One of my biggest interests at the moment is what would be included in a collection of 'art games,' though this has a broader range of titles than we might consider initially (Pac-Man and Space Invaders, for instance alongside Ico and Katamari). The reason for including a DGC article in Computer Game Studies and the like would be not only venue but also peer review. The DGC would be more than a list of titles. It would of course go into detail as to why the games were chosen, but it should also cover territory such as some of the criteria that were used for choosing the DGC, and also the need for a canon (along with problems associated with it). As has been mentioned earlier, what goes into the choosing of the DGC currently goes inside a 'black box.' Having a canon also suggests a developed or developing field of critical studies for games. The criteria that go towards including titles in the canon would very much inform this field. -Devin On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 12:22 PM, Andrew Armstrong wrote: > This is a bump of the below discussion. The Digital Game Canon project > needs input, and I was glad Stuart brought it up before. > > Thoughts on the need for this, if anyone is interested in helping, or just > ideas about what a good future system would help. > > As Henry said, similar projects in film include the AFI ( > http://www.afi.com/ ) and also the National Film Preservation Board ( > http://www.loc.gov/film/ ) who run the National Film Registry ( > http://www.loc.gov/film/filmnfr.html ), as part of the Library of Congress > A/V Conversation ( http://www.loc.gov/avconservation/ ) > > There is no comparable project from the games industry or related > organisations. Most organisations barely keep their own history preserved, > to be honest. Even finding academic projects related to researching which > games are important to preserve has come up, basically, entirely empty > (there is some material on game preservation in general, but not much of > that really). General preservation is great, but are those top games well > preserved yet? I bet no one on this list knows the answer. :) > > I'd love for this to be the basis of some American (or hopefully > worldwide!) project which actually could fund the preservation of certain > games (and related media) as the National Film Preservation Board does. This > is certainly also one of the main projects which has some good stuff to read > for everyone - gamers, developers, academics, and even non-gamers to a > degree (just like someone who watched few films would look at the Film > Registry). It'd require some real lawmaking, funding, or other stuff though, > but I'd be happy if it started as a collaboration of interested archives who > can store the games independently! :) I hope they would be interested in > acquiring titles specifically if listed, and would be forerunners involved > in the project I presume. > > As for how it could be run now, I'm happy with experts. It'd be good to get > another GDC session, or have something put online (audio, or filmed) related > to the explanations behind the games. In the future, to have more input, we > could have an active committee who runs the project with input from the > public (lists of games they think need preserving - similar to the NFPB - > http://www.loc.gov/film/vote.html ) as well as internal SIG suggestions. A > set of guidelines (necessary age, the selection of a single title or a > "range" allowed, and significance guidelines) would be a good idea, made > public so it has more credit. > > Suggestions from Devin include publishing the list in Computer Game > Studies, or Gamastura (or both) as well as our site, which sound like a good > idea if we can provide context and reasoning behind the decision (rather > then just "a list" which is actually incredibly boring, see: most blog > content ;) ). It'd be nice to advertise it further afield, but for starters > - it really just needs to be got going again! The wiki needs finishing for > the previous entries, or a new small website built to hold the information > (I have the domains, and might be able to cook up something for this). > Getting researched articles and lists of resources related to each chosen > game is also important - when Wikipedia is the *best* description of a given > historical game's content, you know something is wrong. > > These are only my ideas - the project is currently run by Henry, who's a > lot more knowledgeable about game history in general, and why he decided to > do this in the first place :) > > Please put forward ideas, it'd be good to get this going again in some way. > > Andrew > > Andrew Armstrong wrote: > > This is coming on from our previous discussion over spring cleaning the > SIG. > > *Digital Game Canon* > http://www.igda.org/wiki/Game_Preservation_SIG/Digital_Game_Canon > Status: *On Hold* > Currently lead by: Henry Lowood. > Short description: *Started for a GDC 2007 session. This project > recognizes the importance of digital game culture. The Canon provides a > starting-point for the difficult task of preserving its history. This > project will need to be restarted in some capacity in the future.* > > Concerns raised previously: > - Basis for choosing 10 games a year. > - How to get it restarted without a GDC session > - Who are the people choosing the games, and the criteria they choose them > > >From Henry, running the project: "Well, the criteria were discussed within > the group, but not openly because there was no open forum. Recall that it > was a GDC event, then it became a website after that. If we continue the > project with a mode of presentation more focused on dissemination over the > web and documentation, that would give us an opportunity to explain the > criteria > > That said, the heart and soul of the enterprise is to create a list a la > what the American Film Institute has done for U.S. cinema. The AFI's work > has been a basis for preservation activities, as well." > > > You can look back to some of the older emails on some of the points raised, > but I'd prefer if they were raised again by those who are concerned so we > can get discussing them again a bit more on topic. I do have in mind a new > website to build in my spare time (which might take a while) to host > information and metadata on the different games we add, which is doable > since we'll have a small list, and soon will have more collections for > different videogame material on the IA. > > Bring whatever you can to the discussion, although Henry leads the project > so it's in his ballpark where it goes from here. > > Andrew > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing listgame_preservation at igda.orghttp://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > > -- The sleep of Reason produces monsters. "Until next time..." Captain Commando -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dodo at WPI.EDU Fri Feb 6 16:09:05 2009 From: dodo at WPI.EDU (O'Donnell, Dean M) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 16:09:05 -0500 Subject: [game_preservation] Project Discussion: Oral Histories In-Reply-To: <498C983B.4050205@aarmstrong.org> References: <497E29EB.8020600@aarmstrong.org> <498C90DB.2090803@aarmstrong.org> <498C983B.4050205@aarmstrong.org> Message-ID: My IGDA account is dodonnell. I'll make sure my students join the IGDA (they should anyway) so they can edit the wiki. Are you suggesting hosting the interviews on the wiki itself, or at some other archive (Stanford?) Dean ____________________________________________ Dean O'Donnell Associate Director, Interactive Media and Game Development Dept. of Humanities and Arts WPI dodo at wpi.edu Phone: 508-831-5947 Fax: 508-831-5932 From: game_preservation-bounces at igda.org [mailto:game_preservation-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Armstrong Sent: Friday, February 06, 2009 3:06 PM To: IGDA Game Preservation SIG Subject: Re: [game_preservation] Project Discussion: Oral Histories It'd be a pleasure for you to take on the project if Henry agrees :) You'd need to have an IGDA.org account to edit the wiki, which no doubt would have the IGDA's information on how to get involved (for developers) which you might need to sort. Hopefully there'll be other efforts in the future which the project can keep up with - like Rachel's contributions, and other's. I doubt there'd be any competition if anyone else wanted to "use the list" of available developers - there's more developers then people working in all the game history community :) I can check with someone at the IGDA about putting a call out in a newsletter (which goes out monthly) or as a news piece, when the appropriate time comes up to publicise it - you can obviously actually write the details if we're able to do this :) Feel free to make edits to the wiki, or suggest how you want it to work here first if you like (I can do wiki editing as needed of course too, I do so for the other projects). For hosting, I'd love a mirror of whatever files be made available on the Internet Archive, we have collections for interviews, which these would be awesome to add to. :) It'd be all credit to your team though, and rights reserved as you'd like, of course. It mainly helps make it available, which was one of the projects aims when initially thought out. Andrew O'Donnell, Dean M wrote: Sorry, I subscribed and have been a bit inundated with other things, so only noticed this when it popped up just now. Introduction: I'm on the faculty at Worcester Polytechnic Institute in the Interactive Media and Game Development program. We've been working on an archive that focuses on New England developers. My colleague David Finkel, and our archivist, Rodney Obien spearhead that project. The Oral History Project: I work with oral histories. Specifically, each year I train some students to collect and record them. I work with Jason Scott on this (he's local to us), and he's been willing to host our raw footage while the students edit and compile by person and subject. The work has gone slowly mostly because I'm still learning and I start with new students every year. Next year we'll have 6 or 7 oral histories collected, which seems like enough to go "prime time" and set up a web page. We'd welcome the backing of the IDGA and making it a joint effort of the IDGA and WPI seems like a perfectly reasonable way forward. I have the students, the equipment, and the web hosting; the IDGA has developers. We've been dealing with local developers and that can continue for awhile (Boston has a pretty good community), with work on how to expand beyond our area as part of next year's project. I would be happy to head the this project for the IDGA as long as the list doesn't mind when every fall I call for volunteers or introductions to developers to be interviewed. Best, Dean ____________________________________________ Dean O'Donnell Associate Director, Interactive Media and Game Development Dept. of Humanities and Arts WPI dodo at wpi.edu Phone: 508-831-5947 Fax: 508-831-5932 From: game_preservation-bounces at igda.org [mailto:game_preservation-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Armstrong Sent: Friday, February 06, 2009 2:35 PM To: IGDA Game Preservation SIG Subject: Re: [game_preservation] Project Discussion: Oral Histories I left this open but no one has replied. Another bump, we do have some new members. This project is, really, a bit too practical for the SIG to do "by volunteer work" as all SIG's operate (with most of our work going on online). With no money, and no one seeking out sponsorship, donations, or funding, we don't have any equipment (nevermind manpower and transport) to do this actively, even though it is an excellent idea, and we'd likely be able to find interested developers to participate. So, perhaps it can help by cataloguing other efforts in the area, preserving them on the Internet Archive, and helping logistically and with advertising the service. If anyone also did want to do histories through us somehow, having the final result freely available online or in an archive would be invaluable. This is tough to setup without people who are in industry available to be "on call" or to sign up, and without people who want to do the recordings in the first place! It's a lot of work on both sides (finding time for both, and possibly major travelling, preparing and researching, equipment, post-production...) Therefore, this project is going no where with no active interest. I personally can put forward weekend time and possibly take days off to record things, but since I have no videocamera I can't help directly. I would like to investigate setting up a signup form for both sides - the interviewers and interviewees so we can get a good list of people (and their location, what they did) to do interviews with, and who to send, and get people talking this way. There is a possibility that this is better done informally, however, or maybe through the new IGDA site which is mainly forum based (with mailing lists possible, just really being forum posts being sent to accounts, with replies being allowed), and thus developers would easily be able to get involved with the SIG and discuss it on forums or via. PM's/email. There was some possible interest from Dean O'Donnell from WPI, who is running an oral histories project with student help. Other then this I know of no proper active oral histories project, save Jason Scott's GET LAMP documentary, which is basically edited oral histories (which I hope he puts online in full :) ). Andrew Andrew Armstrong wrote: This is coming on from our previous discussion over spring cleaning the SIG. Oral Histories Status: On Hold Currently lead by: No one. Short description: Interviews with industry people related to their past works. Brought up at GDC 2008, but currently has no assigned project lead. Concerns raised previously: - Aims of the histories, contents, etc. - What to ask (I brought this up before) - Who can do them Someone to work on this or start organising a team of people would be good. Logistically this is the hardest project to manage, and technically we have no resources to fund it at all, meaning it requires heavy volunteer work. People suggesting information, examples of existing histories done, ways to get this going, and so forth are welcome. Basically bring whatever you like to the table, it's an open discussion. Andrew ________________________________ _______________________________________________ game_preservation mailing list game_preservation at igda.org http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation ________________________________ _______________________________________________ game_preservation mailing list game_preservation at igda.org http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrew at aarmstrong.org Fri Feb 6 16:12:47 2009 From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong) Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2009 21:12:47 +0000 Subject: [game_preservation] Project Discussion: Oral Histories In-Reply-To: References: <497E29EB.8020600@aarmstrong.org> <498C90DB.2090803@aarmstrong.org> <498C983B.4050205@aarmstrong.org> Message-ID: <498CA7CF.6040402@aarmstrong.org> If they're text based, well, copies should be stored wherever possible (the IGDA wiki/site being one possible location, the Internet Archive can have a texts collection too, I'm sure Stanford, the UT Archive and other locations would welcome a copy). Media like audio and video can be stored in the Internet Archives collections, since the IGDA hasn't got the bandwidth (or, really, backup plans) to host them directly. I don't know what other organisations accept videos and audio however. Andrew O'Donnell, Dean M wrote: > > My IGDA account is dodonnell. I'll make sure my students join the > IGDA (they should anyway) so they can edit the wiki. > > > > Are you suggesting hosting the interviews on the wiki itself, or at > some other archive (Stanford?) > > > > Dean > > > > ____________________________________________ > Dean O'Donnell Associate Director, > Interactive Media and Game Development > Dept. of Humanities and Arts WPI > dodo at wpi.edu > Phone: 508-831-5947 > Fax: 508-831-5932 > > > > *From:* game_preservation-bounces at igda.org > [mailto:game_preservation-bounces at igda.org] *On Behalf Of *Andrew > Armstrong > *Sent:* Friday, February 06, 2009 3:06 PM > *To:* IGDA Game Preservation SIG > *Subject:* Re: [game_preservation] Project Discussion: Oral Histories > > > > It'd be a pleasure for you to take on the project if Henry agrees :) > You'd need to have an IGDA.org account to edit the wiki, which no > doubt would have the IGDA's information on how to get involved (for > developers) which you might need to sort. > > Hopefully there'll be other efforts in the future which the project > can keep up with - like Rachel's contributions, and other's. I doubt > there'd be any competition if anyone else wanted to "use the list" of > available developers - there's more developers then people working in > all the game history community :) > > I can check with someone at the IGDA about putting a call out in a > newsletter (which goes out monthly) or as a news piece, when the > appropriate time comes up to publicise it - you can obviously actually > write the details if we're able to do this :) Feel free to make edits > to the wiki, or suggest how you want it to work here first if you like > (I can do wiki editing as needed of course too, I do so for the other > projects). > > For hosting, I'd love a mirror of whatever files be made available on > the Internet Archive, we have collections for interviews, which these > would be awesome to add to. :) It'd be all credit to your team though, > and rights reserved as you'd like, of course. It mainly helps make it > available, which was one of the projects aims when initially thought out. > > Andrew > > O'Donnell, Dean M wrote: > > Sorry, I subscribed and have been a bit inundated with other things, > so only noticed this when it popped up just now. > > > > Introduction: I'm on the faculty at Worcester Polytechnic Institute > in the Interactive Media and Game Development program. We've been > working on an archive that focuses on New England developers. My > colleague David Finkel, and our archivist, Rodney Obien spearhead that > project. > > > > The Oral History Project: I work with oral histories. Specifically, > each year I train some students to collect and record them. I work > with Jason Scott on this (he's local to us), and he's been willing to > host our raw footage while the students edit and compile by person and > subject. The work has gone slowly mostly because I'm still learning > and I start with new students every year. > > > > Next year we'll have 6 or 7 oral histories collected, which seems like > enough to go "prime time" and set up a web page. We'd welcome the > backing of the IDGA and making it a joint effort of the IDGA and WPI > seems like a perfectly reasonable way forward. I have the students, > the equipment, and the web hosting; the IDGA has developers. We've > been dealing with local developers and that can continue for awhile > (Boston has a pretty good community), with work on how to expand > beyond our area as part of next year's project. > > > > I would be happy to head the this project for the IDGA as long as the > list doesn't mind when every fall I call for volunteers or > introductions to developers to be interviewed. > > > > Best, > > Dean > > > > ____________________________________________ > Dean O'Donnell Associate Director, > Interactive Media and Game Development > Dept. of Humanities and Arts WPI > dodo at wpi.edu > Phone: 508-831-5947 > Fax: 508-831-5932 > > > > *From:* game_preservation-bounces at igda.org > > [mailto:game_preservation-bounces at igda.org] *On Behalf Of *Andrew > Armstrong > *Sent:* Friday, February 06, 2009 2:35 PM > *To:* IGDA Game Preservation SIG > *Subject:* Re: [game_preservation] Project Discussion: Oral Histories > > > > I left this open but no one has replied. Another bump, we do have some > new members. > > This project is, really, a bit too practical for the SIG to do "by > volunteer work" as all SIG's operate (with most of our work going on > online). With no money, and no one seeking out sponsorship, donations, > or funding, we don't have any equipment (nevermind manpower and > transport) to do this actively, even though it is an excellent idea, > and we'd likely be able to find interested developers to participate. > > So, perhaps it can help by cataloguing other efforts in the area, > preserving them on the Internet Archive, and helping logistically and > with advertising the service. If anyone also did want to do histories > through us somehow, having the final result freely available online or > in an archive would be invaluable. This is tough to setup without > people who are in industry available to be "on call" or to sign up, > and without people who want to do the recordings in the first place! > It's a lot of work on both sides (finding time for both, and possibly > major travelling, preparing and researching, equipment, > post-production...) > > Therefore, this project is going no where with no active interest. I > personally can put forward weekend time and possibly take days off to > record things, but since I have no videocamera I can't help directly. > I would like to investigate setting up a signup form for both sides - > the interviewers and interviewees so we can get a good list of people > (and their location, what they did) to do interviews with, and who to > send, and get people talking this way. There is a possibility that > this is better done informally, however, or maybe through the new IGDA > site which is mainly forum based (with mailing lists possible, just > really being forum posts being sent to accounts, with replies being > allowed), and thus developers would easily be able to get involved > with the SIG and discuss it on forums or via. PM's/email. > > There was some possible interest from Dean O'Donnell from WPI, who is > running an oral histories project with student help. Other then this I > know of no proper active oral histories project, save Jason Scott's > GET LAMP documentary, which is basically edited oral histories (which > I hope he puts online in full :) ). > > Andrew > > Andrew Armstrong wrote: > > This is coming on from our previous discussion over spring cleaning > the SIG. > > *Oral Histories* > Status: /On Hold/ > Currently lead by: /No one. / > Short description: /Interviews with industry people related to their > past works. Brought up at GDC 2008, but currently has no assigned > project lead./ > > Concerns raised previously: > - Aims of the histories, contents, etc. > - What to ask (I brought this up before) > - Who can do them > > Someone to work on this or start organising a team of people would be > good. Logistically this is the hardest project to manage, and > technically we have no resources to fund it at all, meaning it > requires heavy volunteer work. > > People suggesting information, examples of existing histories done, > ways to get this going, and so forth are welcome. Basically bring > whatever you like to the table, it's an open discussion. > > Andrew > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From evilcowclone at gmail.com Fri Feb 6 16:20:41 2009 From: evilcowclone at gmail.com (Devin Monnens) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 14:20:41 -0700 Subject: [game_preservation] Project Discussion: Oral Histories In-Reply-To: <498C983B.4050205@aarmstrong.org> References: <497E29EB.8020600@aarmstrong.org> <498C90DB.2090803@aarmstrong.org> <498C983B.4050205@aarmstrong.org> Message-ID: Dean, I'd love to hear more about how you have been conducting interviews. I am interested in doing an oral history project on the history of game development in Colorado, so anything I could learn from you would be very beneficial. -Devin On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 1:06 PM, Andrew Armstrong wrote: > It'd be a pleasure for you to take on the project if Henry agrees :) You'd > need to have an IGDA.org account to edit the wiki, which no doubt would have > the IGDA's information on how to get involved (for developers) which you > might need to sort. > > Hopefully there'll be other efforts in the future which the project can > keep up with - like Rachel's contributions, and other's. I doubt there'd be > any competition if anyone else wanted to "use the list" of available > developers - there's more developers then people working in all the game > history community :) > > I can check with someone at the IGDA about putting a call out in a > newsletter (which goes out monthly) or as a news piece, when the appropriate > time comes up to publicise it - you can obviously actually write the details > if we're able to do this :) Feel free to make edits to the wiki, or suggest > how you want it to work here first if you like (I can do wiki editing as > needed of course too, I do so for the other projects). > > For hosting, I'd love a mirror of whatever files be made available on the > Internet Archive, we have collections for interviews, which these would be > awesome to add to. :) It'd be all credit to your team though, and rights > reserved as you'd like, of course. It mainly helps make it available, which > was one of the projects aims when initially thought out. > > Andrew > > > O'Donnell, Dean M wrote: > > Sorry, I subscribed and have been a bit inundated with other things, so > only noticed this when it popped up just now. > > > > Introduction: I'm on the faculty at Worcester Polytechnic Institute in the > Interactive Media and Game Development program. We've been working on an > archive that focuses on New England developers. My colleague David Finkel, > and our archivist, Rodney Obien spearhead that project. > > > > The Oral History Project: I work with oral histories. Specifically, each > year I train some students to collect and record them. I work with Jason > Scott on this (he's local to us), and he's been willing to host our raw > footage while the students edit and compile by person and subject. The work > has gone slowly mostly because I'm still learning and I start with new > students every year. > > > > Next year we'll have 6 or 7 oral histories collected, which seems like > enough to go "prime time" and set up a web page. We'd welcome the backing > of the IDGA and making it a joint effort of the IDGA and WPI seems like a > perfectly reasonable way forward. I have the students, the equipment, and > the web hosting; the IDGA has developers. We've been dealing with local > developers and that can continue for awhile (Boston has a pretty good > community), with work on how to expand beyond our area as part of next > year's project. > > > > I would be happy to head the this project for the IDGA as long as the list > doesn't mind when every fall I call for volunteers or introductions to > developers to be interviewed. > > > > Best, > > Dean > > > > ____________________________________________ > Dean O'Donnell Associate Director, > Interactive Media and Game Development > Dept. of Humanities and Arts WPI > dodo at wpi.edu > Phone: 508-831-5947 > Fax: 508-831-5932 > > > > *From:* game_preservation-bounces at igda.org [ > mailto:game_preservation-bounces at igda.org] > *On Behalf Of *Andrew Armstrong > *Sent:* Friday, February 06, 2009 2:35 PM > *To:* IGDA Game Preservation SIG > *Subject:* Re: [game_preservation] Project Discussion: Oral Histories > > > > I left this open but no one has replied. Another bump, we do have some new > members. > > This project is, really, a bit too practical for the SIG to do "by > volunteer work" as all SIG's operate (with most of our work going on > online). With no money, and no one seeking out sponsorship, donations, or > funding, we don't have any equipment (nevermind manpower and transport) to > do this actively, even though it is an excellent idea, and we'd likely be > able to find interested developers to participate. > > So, perhaps it can help by cataloguing other efforts in the area, > preserving them on the Internet Archive, and helping logistically and with > advertising the service. If anyone also did want to do histories through us > somehow, having the final result freely available online or in an archive > would be invaluable. This is tough to setup without people who are in > industry available to be "on call" or to sign up, and without people who > want to do the recordings in the first place! It's a lot of work on both > sides (finding time for both, and possibly major travelling, preparing and > researching, equipment, post-production...) > > Therefore, this project is going no where with no active interest. I > personally can put forward weekend time and possibly take days off to record > things, but since I have no videocamera I can't help directly. I would like > to investigate setting up a signup form for both sides - the interviewers > and interviewees so we can get a good list of people (and their location, > what they did) to do interviews with, and who to send, and get people > talking this way. There is a possibility that this is better done > informally, however, or maybe through the new IGDA site which is mainly > forum based (with mailing lists possible, just really being forum posts > being sent to accounts, with replies being allowed), and thus developers > would easily be able to get involved with the SIG and discuss it on forums > or via. PM's/email. > > There was some possible interest from Dean O'Donnell from WPI, who is > running an oral histories project with student help. Other then this I know > of no proper active oral histories project, save Jason Scott's GET LAMP > documentary, which is basically edited oral histories (which I hope he puts > online in full :) ). > > Andrew > > Andrew Armstrong wrote: > > This is coming on from our previous discussion over spring cleaning the > SIG. > > *Oral Histories* > Status: *On Hold* > Currently lead by: *No one. * > Short description: *Interviews with industry people related to their past > works. Brought up at GDC 2008, but currently has no assigned project lead. > * > > Concerns raised previously: > - Aims of the histories, contents, etc. > - What to ask (I brought this up before) > - Who can do them > > Someone to work on this or start organising a team of people would be good. > Logistically this is the hardest project to manage, and technically we have > no resources to fund it at all, meaning it requires heavy volunteer work. > > People suggesting information, examples of existing histories done, ways to > get this going, and so forth are welcome. Basically bring whatever you like > to the table, it's an open discussion. > > Andrew > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > game_preservation mailing list > > game_preservation at igda.org > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing listgame_preservation at igda.orghttp://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > > -- The sleep of Reason produces monsters. "Until next time..." Captain Commando -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lowood at stanford.edu Fri Feb 6 18:47:25 2009 From: lowood at stanford.edu (Henry Lowood) Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2009 15:47:25 -0800 Subject: [game_preservation] KEEP project and DiGRA2009 In-Reply-To: <498C0EDB020000B50008101F@stirling.iso.port.ac.uk> References: <498C0EDB020000B50008101F@stirling.iso.port.ac.uk> Message-ID: <498CCC0D.3000806@stanford.edu> Dan, do you think anyone from KEEP will be attending GDC this year? Henry Dan Pinchbeck wrote: > Hi everyone, > > Andreas has already let you all know about the KEEP project - I'm part of the UK team working on the project, focusing on metadata standards and front-end. > > One of the things we've talked about is how to launch the project within the games research community and there may be a really good opportunity for both this, and highlighting preservation work, coming up this year. The DiGRA conference is being hosted by Brunel University in London in September, and the call for papers, panels, etc is currently up. I think it would be a really prescient idea to suggest a preservation panel for the conference. We'd look for 3 -4 presentations within this, one of which would be KEEP and the state of emulation in relation to games. It would be great to also have another of these being directly about the work of the SIG and it's key members, leaving two papers open for whatever the SIG thinks is most appropriate. It would also be a great opportunity to get together those of us who can't make GDC and to look at how we can draw in the research community as a whole into this part of the field. > > To put it in context, there wasn't a panel like this at the 2007 conference, and only a single paper dealing with preservation at all at the 2005 conference, so it's long overdue. > > Any thoughts would be very welcomed. I'm happy to put together a draft proposal and circulate it to the SIG to formalise things. The deadline for proposal is 6th March > > All the best, > > Dan > > Dan Pinchbeck > Advanced Games Research Group > School of Creative Technologies > University of Portsmouth, UK > > www.thechineseroom.co.uk > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > -- Henry Lowood Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections; Film & Media Collections HRG, Green Library 557 Escondido Mall, Stanford University Libraries Stanford CA 94305-6004 USA http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood lowood at stanford.edu; 650-723-4602 From evilcowclone at gmail.com Fri Feb 6 21:31:04 2009 From: evilcowclone at gmail.com (Devin Monnens) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 19:31:04 -0700 Subject: [game_preservation] RIP Hans Beck Message-ID: Hans Beck, the creator of the Playmobil toy line, died last Friday at age 79. http://blog.wired.com/geekdad/2009/02/rip-hans-beck-i.html While he's not a game maker, I grew up playing with the toys he created, and so was deeply moved to hear of this. I don't think toymaking goes on the Memorials site (though we do have Joseph A Weizenbaum, the creator of ELIZA, and Richard Knerr, maker of the Frisbee), but he's an important enough guy to deserve a bow of respect. And after all, toys are facilitators of play, which is a part of all games, even if not all play is a game. -- The sleep of Reason produces monsters. "Until next time..." Captain Commando -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Dan.Pinchbeck at port.ac.uk Sat Feb 7 01:07:21 2009 From: Dan.Pinchbeck at port.ac.uk (Dan Pinchbeck) Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2009 06:07:21 +0000 Subject: [game_preservation] KEEP project and DiGRA2009 Message-ID: <498D2519020000B500081258@stirling.iso.port.ac.uk> Hi Henry We hadn't planned on it, but I'm thinking it may be a very good idea if we can manage it. I'll look into our schedules. Best, Dan Dan Pinchbeck Advanced Games Research Group School of Creative Technologies University of Portsmouth, UK www.thechineseroom.co.uk >>> Henry Lowood 06/02/09 11:48 PM >>> Dan, do you think anyone from KEEP will be attending GDC this year? Henry Dan Pinchbeck wrote: > Hi everyone, > > Andreas has already let you all know about the KEEP project - I'm part of the UK team working on the project, focusing on metadata standards and front-end. > > One of the things we've talked about is how to launch the project within the games research community and there may be a really good opportunity for both this, and highlighting preservation work, coming up this year. The DiGRA conference is being hosted by Brunel University in London in September, and the call for papers, panels, etc is currently up. I think it would be a really prescient idea to suggest a preservation panel for the conference. We'd look for 3 -4 presentations within this, one of which would be KEEP and the state of emulation in relation to games. It would be great to also have another of these being directly about the work of the SIG and it's key members, leaving two papers open for whatever the SIG thinks is most appropriate. It would also be a great opportunity to get together those of us who can't make GDC and to look at how we can draw in the research community as a whole into this part of the field. > > To put it in context, there wasn't a panel like this at the 2007 conference, and only a single paper dealing with preservation at all at the 2005 conference, so it's long overdue. > > Any thoughts would be very welcomed. I'm happy to put together a draft proposal and circulate it to the SIG to formalise things. The deadline for proposal is 6th March > > All the best, > > Dan > > Dan Pinchbeck > Advanced Games Research Group > School of Creative Technologies > University of Portsmouth, UK > > www.thechineseroom.co.uk > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > -- Henry Lowood Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections; Film & Media Collections HRG, Green Library 557 Escondido Mall, Stanford University Libraries Stanford CA 94305-6004 USA http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood lowood at stanford.edu; 650-723-4602 _______________________________________________ game_preservation mailing list game_preservation at igda.org http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation From lists at softpres.org Sat Feb 7 05:25:24 2009 From: lists at softpres.org (Kieron Wilkinson) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 10:25:24 +0000 Subject: [game_preservation] Preservation of analogue game media Message-ID: <4C6172A7-4945-4F5E-AE76-CF8AA1E21772@softpres.org> Hello all, I'd quite like to ask a question of those working in libraries and archives who are actively preserving games provided on floppy disks. Is anyone here doing this? I guess this is going to become relevent to the KEEP project (excellent news Andreas!), as it gets going. I'm really just wanting to get some feedback on how this is currently being done. Mainly I'm wondering what kind of hardware and software you are using to do it? It would be interesting to find out if there are any commonly-used approaches. I don't want to pre-empt the discussion too much, but there does seem to be a number of common technical problems in preserving game media. Ultimately I'd like to start a discussion on whether there could ever be an accepted standard solution that could cover everything so nobody needed to worry about it again... (well, I'm sure it would certainly save pain for everyone) Kieron Wilkinson P.S. I do apologise for not being around for quite a while. I had some health issues shortly after taking over from Simon, and only sparingly touched a computer for quite some time (I'm fine now). From vincent at joguin.com Sat Feb 7 09:17:14 2009 From: vincent at joguin.com (Vincent Joguin) Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2009 15:17:14 +0100 Subject: [game_preservation] KEEP - major European research project on emulation starts In-Reply-To: <498C057F.2070602@digitalgamearchive.org> References: <498B2FAE.9040204@aarmstrong.org> <498C057F.2070602@digitalgamearchive.org> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20090207143113.03dbec00@joguin.com> Hi everyone, I suppose I should introduce myself at this stage. Apart from what Philippe has recently kindly mentioned about me, I have a number of interests linked to games and games preservation. I have been active on the emulation scene since around 1995, at first starting with an Amiga emulator that never reached usable stage (WinUAE is now so capable!), then shifting to Atari ST (FAST, and IKBD part of SainT) and Tandy 1000 (Tand-Em) emulation. Apart from SainT, all these are now fully obsolete :-) I have also been working on the Disk2FDI software that is able to create accurate disk images from any kind of floppy disk. Although I haven't been much of a gamer for the past 15 years, I have kept a particular interest into classic adventure games such as Sierra/LucasArts (I have a large King's Quest collection for instance), among other genres. I have also been slightly active on the French demoscene in the late 90's. I'd like to thank Andreas and Dan for the nice KEEP introduction, and members of this SIG for their interest in our project. All the best, Vincent. From evilcowclone at gmail.com Sat Feb 7 10:46:57 2009 From: evilcowclone at gmail.com (Devin Monnens) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 08:46:57 -0700 Subject: [game_preservation] Preservation of analogue game media In-Reply-To: <4C6172A7-4945-4F5E-AE76-CF8AA1E21772@softpres.org> References: <4C6172A7-4945-4F5E-AE76-CF8AA1E21772@softpres.org> Message-ID: Kieron, The first place to start is the Software Preservation Society ( www.softpres.org). They are interested in authenticity of the disks they back up and so have developed hardware to detect whether the disk has been written to or not. There is a lot of good information on the site, and one of the project's members is part of the SIG mailing list. -Devin On Sat, Feb 7, 2009 at 3:25 AM, Kieron Wilkinson wrote: > > Hello all, > > I'd quite like to ask a question of those working in libraries and archives > who are actively preserving games provided on floppy disks. Is anyone here > doing this? I guess this is going to become relevent to the KEEP project > (excellent news Andreas!), as it gets going. > > I'm really just wanting to get some feedback on how this is currently being > done. Mainly I'm wondering what kind of hardware and software you are using > to do it? It would be interesting to find out if there are any commonly-used > approaches. > > I don't want to pre-empt the discussion too much, but there does seem to be > a number of common technical problems in preserving game media. Ultimately > I'd like to start a discussion on whether there could ever be an accepted > standard solution that could cover everything so nobody needed to worry > about it again... (well, I'm sure it would certainly save pain for everyone) > > Kieron Wilkinson > > P.S. I do apologise for not being around for quite a while. I had some > health issues shortly after taking over from Simon, and only sparingly > touched a computer for quite some time (I'm fine now). > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > -- The sleep of Reason produces monsters. "Until next time..." Captain Commando -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrew at aarmstrong.org Sat Feb 7 11:50:23 2009 From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong) Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2009 16:50:23 +0000 Subject: [game_preservation] Preservation of analogue game media In-Reply-To: <4C6172A7-4945-4F5E-AE76-CF8AA1E21772@softpres.org> References: <4C6172A7-4945-4F5E-AE76-CF8AA1E21772@softpres.org> Message-ID: <498DBBCF.5010407@aarmstrong.org> I personally think standardising the methodology, metadata and storage of the software is certainly important if there was worldwide collaboration. It'd be interesting to look at it, and also hear how the different major game preservation organisations/places (some of which are not on this list, so whoever leads the project will need to get them here) are working on this problem, since some magnetic media is really going to be unusable in the future. Andrew Kieron Wilkinson wrote: > > Hello all, > > I'd quite like to ask a question of those working in libraries and > archives who are actively preserving games provided on floppy disks. > Is anyone here doing this? I guess this is going to become relevent to > the KEEP project (excellent news Andreas!), as it gets going. > > I'm really just wanting to get some feedback on how this is currently > being done. Mainly I'm wondering what kind of hardware and software > you are using to do it? It would be interesting to find out if there > are any commonly-used approaches. > > I don't want to pre-empt the discussion too much, but there does seem > to be a number of common technical problems in preserving game media. > Ultimately I'd like to start a discussion on whether there could ever > be an accepted standard solution that could cover everything so nobody > needed to worry about it again... (well, I'm sure it would certainly > save pain for everyone) > > Kieron Wilkinson > > P.S. I do apologise for not being around for quite a while. I had some > health issues shortly after taking over from Simon, and only sparingly > touched a computer for quite some time (I'm fine now). > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation From andrew at aarmstrong.org Sat Feb 7 11:52:01 2009 From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong) Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2009 16:52:01 +0000 Subject: [game_preservation] Preservation of analogue game media In-Reply-To: References: <4C6172A7-4945-4F5E-AE76-CF8AA1E21772@softpres.org> Message-ID: <498DBC31.60402@aarmstrong.org> Kerion is actually someone who was a past SIG leader in fact (who brought this up then, but couldn't work on it due to a bad case of RSI :( ), and is a member of the Software Preservation Society (and there is another one of them on here who's not made himself known I've been told). :) Andrew Devin Monnens wrote: > Kieron, > > The first place to start is the Software Preservation Society > (www.softpres.org ). They are interested in > authenticity of the disks they back up and so have developed hardware > to detect whether the disk has been written to or not. There is a lot > of good information on the site, and one of the project's members is > part of the SIG mailing list. > > -Devin > > On Sat, Feb 7, 2009 at 3:25 AM, Kieron Wilkinson > wrote: > > > Hello all, > > I'd quite like to ask a question of those working in libraries and > archives who are actively preserving games provided on floppy > disks. Is anyone here doing this? I guess this is going to become > relevent to the KEEP project (excellent news Andreas!), as it gets > going. > > I'm really just wanting to get some feedback on how this is > currently being done. Mainly I'm wondering what kind of hardware > and software you are using to do it? It would be interesting to > find out if there are any commonly-used approaches. > > I don't want to pre-empt the discussion too much, but there does > seem to be a number of common technical problems in preserving > game media. Ultimately I'd like to start a discussion on whether > there could ever be an accepted standard solution that could cover > everything so nobody needed to worry about it again... (well, I'm > sure it would certainly save pain for everyone) > > Kieron Wilkinson > > P.S. I do apologise for not being around for quite a while. I had > some health issues shortly after taking over from Simon, and only > sparingly touched a computer for quite some time (I'm fine now). > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > > > > > -- > The sleep of Reason produces monsters. > > "Until next time..." > Captain Commando > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From evilcowclone at gmail.com Sat Feb 7 16:59:48 2009 From: evilcowclone at gmail.com (Devin Monnens) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 14:59:48 -0700 Subject: [game_preservation] Preservation of analogue game media In-Reply-To: <498DBC31.60402@aarmstrong.org> References: <4C6172A7-4945-4F5E-AE76-CF8AA1E21772@softpres.org> <498DBC31.60402@aarmstrong.org> Message-ID: Oh, so then I suppose the whole 'look at what your own company is doing already, isn't it cool!' bit was completely unnecessary :) I personally think standardising the methodology, metadata and storage of > the software is certainly important if there was worldwide collaboration. > Well yeah, this is something we totally need to do after the white paper is published. This is something I bring up from time to time. If we can't standardize everything, then what's the point in having collaborative archives? On Sat, Feb 7, 2009 at 9:52 AM, Andrew Armstrong wrote: > Kerion is actually someone who was a past SIG leader in fact (who brought > this up then, but couldn't work on it due to a bad case of RSI :( ), and is > a member of the Software Preservation Society (and there is another one of > them on here who's not made himself known I've been told). :) > > Andrew > > Devin Monnens wrote: > > Kieron, > > The first place to start is the Software Preservation Society ( > www.softpres.org). They are interested in authenticity of the disks they > back up and so have developed hardware to detect whether the disk has been > written to or not. There is a lot of good information on the site, and one > of the project's members is part of the SIG mailing list. > > -Devin > > On Sat, Feb 7, 2009 at 3:25 AM, Kieron Wilkinson wrote: > >> >> Hello all, >> >> I'd quite like to ask a question of those working in libraries and >> archives who are actively preserving games provided on floppy disks. Is >> anyone here doing this? I guess this is going to become relevent to the KEEP >> project (excellent news Andreas!), as it gets going. >> >> I'm really just wanting to get some feedback on how this is currently >> being done. Mainly I'm wondering what kind of hardware and software you are >> using to do it? It would be interesting to find out if there are any >> commonly-used approaches. >> >> I don't want to pre-empt the discussion too much, but there does seem to >> be a number of common technical problems in preserving game media. >> Ultimately I'd like to start a discussion on whether there could ever be an >> accepted standard solution that could cover everything so nobody needed to >> worry about it again... (well, I'm sure it would certainly save pain for >> everyone) >> >> Kieron Wilkinson >> >> P.S. I do apologise for not being around for quite a while. I had some >> health issues shortly after taking over from Simon, and only sparingly >> touched a computer for quite some time (I'm fine now). >> >> _______________________________________________ >> game_preservation mailing list >> game_preservation at igda.org >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation >> > > > > -- > The sleep of Reason produces monsters. > > "Until next time..." > Captain Commando > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing listgame_preservation at igda.orghttp://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > > -- The sleep of Reason produces monsters. "Until next time..." Captain Commando -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrew at aarmstrong.org Sat Feb 7 18:45:07 2009 From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong) Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2009 23:45:07 +0000 Subject: [game_preservation] RIP Hans Beck In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <498E1D03.5010405@aarmstrong.org> It's up to you if you want him added - I was certainly a Lego man myself, never got on with Playmobil (what? you can't take it apart? boring! hehe). Sad to see another figurehead of play die however. I hope the toy preservation movement is on top of helping preserve his memory. Andrew Devin Monnens wrote: > Hans Beck, the creator of the Playmobil toy line, died last Friday at > age 79. > > http://blog.wired.com/geekdad/2009/02/rip-hans-beck-i.html > > While he's not a game maker, I grew up playing with the toys he > created, and so was deeply moved to hear of this. I don't think > toymaking goes on the Memorials site (though we do have Joseph A > Weizenbaum, the creator of ELIZA, and Richard Knerr, maker of the > Frisbee), but he's an important enough guy to deserve a bow of > respect. And after all, toys are facilitators of play, which is a part > of all games, even if not all play is a game. > > -- > The sleep of Reason produces monsters. > > "Until next time..." > Captain Commando > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stuart.feldhamer at gmail.com Sun Feb 8 11:52:10 2009 From: stuart.feldhamer at gmail.com (Stuart Feldhamer) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 11:52:10 -0500 Subject: [game_preservation] Project Discussion: Digital Game Canon In-Reply-To: <498C8DF4.1010605@aarmstrong.org> References: <497E2AF3.4050803@aarmstrong.org> <498C8DF4.1010605@aarmstrong.org> Message-ID: <498f0db5.0609c00a.3d9b.ffffbd68@mx.google.com> Nothing to add to the below that hasn't already been said, other than to say that I would be happy to participate in this project if needed. Actually, I do have a question. Other than the actual selection, is anything special currently being done to preserve the 10 titles that have been added to the Canon so far? Stuart From: game_preservation-bounces at igda.org [mailto:game_preservation-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Armstrong Sent: Friday, February 06, 2009 2:22 PM To: IGDA Game Preservation SIG Subject: Re: [game_preservation] Project Discussion: Digital Game Canon This is a bump of the below discussion. The Digital Game Canon project needs input, and I was glad Stuart brought it up before. Thoughts on the need for this, if anyone is interested in helping, or just ideas about what a good future system would help. As Henry said, similar projects in film include the AFI ( http://www.afi.com/ ) and also the National Film Preservation Board ( http://www.loc.gov/film/ ) who run the National Film Registry ( http://www.loc.gov/film/filmnfr.html ), as part of the Library of Congress A/V Conversation ( http://www.loc.gov/avconservation/ ) There is no comparable project from the games industry or related organisations. Most organisations barely keep their own history preserved, to be honest. Even finding academic projects related to researching which games are important to preserve has come up, basically, entirely empty (there is some material on game preservation in general, but not much of that really). General preservation is great, but are those top games well preserved yet? I bet no one on this list knows the answer. :) I'd love for this to be the basis of some American (or hopefully worldwide!) project which actually could fund the preservation of certain games (and related media) as the National Film Preservation Board does. This is certainly also one of the main projects which has some good stuff to read for everyone - gamers, developers, academics, and even non-gamers to a degree (just like someone who watched few films would look at the Film Registry). It'd require some real lawmaking, funding, or other stuff though, but I'd be happy if it started as a collaboration of interested archives who can store the games independently! :) I hope they would be interested in acquiring titles specifically if listed, and would be forerunners involved in the project I presume. As for how it could be run now, I'm happy with experts. It'd be good to get another GDC session, or have something put online (audio, or filmed) related to the explanations behind the games. In the future, to have more input, we could have an active committee who runs the project with input from the public (lists of games they think need preserving - similar to the NFPB - http://www.loc.gov/film/vote.html ) as well as internal SIG suggestions. A set of guidelines (necessary age, the selection of a single title or a "range" allowed, and significance guidelines) would be a good idea, made public so it has more credit. Suggestions from Devin include publishing the list in Computer Game Studies, or Gamastura (or both) as well as our site, which sound like a good idea if we can provide context and reasoning behind the decision (rather then just "a list" which is actually incredibly boring, see: most blog content ;) ). It'd be nice to advertise it further afield, but for starters - it really just needs to be got going again! The wiki needs finishing for the previous entries, or a new small website built to hold the information (I have the domains, and might be able to cook up something for this). Getting researched articles and lists of resources related to each chosen game is also important - when Wikipedia is the *best* description of a given historical game's content, you know something is wrong. These are only my ideas - the project is currently run by Henry, who's a lot more knowledgeable about game history in general, and why he decided to do this in the first place :) Please put forward ideas, it'd be good to get this going again in some way. Andrew Andrew Armstrong wrote: This is coming on from our previous discussion over spring cleaning the SIG. Digital Game Canon http://www.igda.org/wiki/Game_Preservation_SIG/Digital_Game_Canon Status: On Hold Currently lead by: Henry Lowood. Short description: Started for a GDC 2007 session. This project recognizes the importance of digital game culture. The Canon provides a starting-point for the difficult task of preserving its history. This project will need to be restarted in some capacity in the future. Concerns raised previously: - Basis for choosing 10 games a year. - How to get it restarted without a GDC session - Who are the people choosing the games, and the criteria they choose them >From Henry, running the project: "Well, the criteria were discussed within the group, but not openly because there was no open forum. Recall that it was a GDC event, then it became a website after that. If we continue the project with a mode of presentation more focused on dissemination over the web and documentation, that would give us an opportunity to explain the criteria That said, the heart and soul of the enterprise is to create a list a la what the American Film Institute has done for U.S. cinema. The AFI's work has been a basis for preservation activities, as well." You can look back to some of the older emails on some of the points raised, but I'd prefer if they were raised again by those who are concerned so we can get discussing them again a bit more on topic. I do have in mind a new website to build in my spare time (which might take a while) to host information and metadata on the different games we add, which is doable since we'll have a small list, and soon will have more collections for different videogame material on the IA. Bring whatever you can to the discussion, although Henry leads the project so it's in his ballpark where it goes from here. Andrew _____ _______________________________________________ game_preservation mailing list game_preservation at igda.org http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lowood at stanford.edu Sun Feb 8 23:17:10 2009 From: lowood at stanford.edu (Henry Lowood) Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2009 20:17:10 -0800 Subject: [game_preservation] Project Discussion: Oral Histories In-Reply-To: <498C983B.4050205@aarmstrong.org> References: <497E29EB.8020600@aarmstrong.org> <498C90DB.2090803@aarmstrong.org> <498C983B.4050205@aarmstrong.org> Message-ID: <498FAE46.1050803@stanford.edu> Andrew, Just catching up on e-mail. I know David and this project. Way back when, sometime in the past, we talked about a coordinated effort for different regions of the U.S. (In fact, I have done an oral history at the Computer History Museum with Al Alcorn, so we have at least one on the West Coast). It would be super to lend support to the WPI project, and I think we should do it. Dean, if you would like to assume a role within our SIG as a coordinator of the SIG's efforts as a clearinghouse and host for information about projects such as WPI, we would have a plan. By now, Andrew has the Internet Archive side of this sorted; if not, maybe I can help as I curate a couple of collections there, as well. Also, if you are thinking of doing video, have a look at a Stanford project (on the semiconductor industry): http://silicongenesis.stanford.edu A long way of saying: Let's do it! Henry Andrew Armstrong wrote: > It'd be a pleasure for you to take on the project if Henry agrees :) > You'd need to have an IGDA.org account to edit the wiki, which no > doubt would have the IGDA's information on how to get involved (for > developers) which you might need to sort. > > Hopefully there'll be other efforts in the future which the project > can keep up with - like Rachel's contributions, and other's. I doubt > there'd be any competition if anyone else wanted to "use the list" of > available developers - there's more developers then people working in > all the game history community :) > > I can check with someone at the IGDA about putting a call out in a > newsletter (which goes out monthly) or as a news piece, when the > appropriate time comes up to publicise it - you can obviously actually > write the details if we're able to do this :) Feel free to make edits > to the wiki, or suggest how you want it to work here first if you like > (I can do wiki editing as needed of course too, I do so for the other > projects). > > For hosting, I'd love a mirror of whatever files be made available on > the Internet Archive, we have collections for interviews, which these > would be awesome to add to. :) It'd be all credit to your team though, > and rights reserved as you'd like, of course. It mainly helps make it > available, which was one of the projects aims when initially thought out. > > Andrew > > O'Donnell, Dean M wrote: >> >> Sorry, I subscribed and have been a bit inundated with other things, >> so only noticed this when it popped up just now. >> >> >> >> Introduction: I'm on the faculty at Worcester Polytechnic Institute >> in the Interactive Media and Game Development program. We've been >> working on an archive that focuses on New England developers. My >> colleague David Finkel, and our archivist, Rodney Obien spearhead >> that project. >> >> >> >> The Oral History Project: I work with oral histories. Specifically, >> each year I train some students to collect and record them. I work >> with Jason Scott on this (he's local to us), and he's been willing to >> host our raw footage while the students edit and compile by person >> and subject. The work has gone slowly mostly because I'm still >> learning and I start with new students every year. >> >> >> >> Next year we'll have 6 or 7 oral histories collected, which seems >> like enough to go "prime time" and set up a web page. We'd welcome >> the backing of the IDGA and making it a joint effort of the IDGA and >> WPI seems like a perfectly reasonable way forward. I have the >> students, the equipment, and the web hosting; the IDGA has >> developers. We've been dealing with local developers and that can >> continue for awhile (Boston has a pretty good community), with work >> on how to expand beyond our area as part of next year's project. >> >> >> >> I would be happy to head the this project for the IDGA as long as the >> list doesn't mind when every fall I call for volunteers or >> introductions to developers to be interviewed. >> >> >> >> Best, >> >> Dean >> >> >> >> ____________________________________________ >> Dean O'Donnell Associate Director, >> Interactive Media and Game Development >> Dept. of Humanities and Arts WPI >> dodo at wpi.edu >> Phone: 508-831-5947 >> Fax: 508-831-5932 >> >> >> >> *From:* game_preservation-bounces at igda.org >> [mailto:game_preservation-bounces at igda.org] *On Behalf Of *Andrew >> Armstrong >> *Sent:* Friday, February 06, 2009 2:35 PM >> *To:* IGDA Game Preservation SIG >> *Subject:* Re: [game_preservation] Project Discussion: Oral Histories >> >> >> >> I left this open but no one has replied. Another bump, we do have >> some new members. >> >> This project is, really, a bit too practical for the SIG to do "by >> volunteer work" as all SIG's operate (with most of our work going on >> online). With no money, and no one seeking out sponsorship, >> donations, or funding, we don't have any equipment (nevermind >> manpower and transport) to do this actively, even though it is an >> excellent idea, and we'd likely be able to find interested developers >> to participate. >> >> So, perhaps it can help by cataloguing other efforts in the area, >> preserving them on the Internet Archive, and helping logistically and >> with advertising the service. If anyone also did want to do histories >> through us somehow, having the final result freely available online >> or in an archive would be invaluable. This is tough to setup without >> people who are in industry available to be "on call" or to sign up, >> and without people who want to do the recordings in the first place! >> It's a lot of work on both sides (finding time for both, and possibly >> major travelling, preparing and researching, equipment, >> post-production...) >> >> Therefore, this project is going no where with no active interest. I >> personally can put forward weekend time and possibly take days off to >> record things, but since I have no videocamera I can't help directly. >> I would like to investigate setting up a signup form for both sides - >> the interviewers and interviewees so we can get a good list of people >> (and their location, what they did) to do interviews with, and who to >> send, and get people talking this way. There is a possibility that >> this is better done informally, however, or maybe through the new >> IGDA site which is mainly forum based (with mailing lists possible, >> just really being forum posts being sent to accounts, with replies >> being allowed), and thus developers would easily be able to get >> involved with the SIG and discuss it on forums or via. PM's/email. >> >> There was some possible interest from Dean O'Donnell from WPI, who is >> running an oral histories project with student help. Other then this >> I know of no proper active oral histories project, save Jason Scott's >> GET LAMP documentary, which is basically edited oral histories (which >> I hope he puts online in full :) ). >> >> Andrew >> >> Andrew Armstrong wrote: >> >> This is coming on from our previous discussion over spring cleaning >> the SIG. >> >> *Oral Histories* >> Status: /On Hold/ >> Currently lead by: /No one. / >> Short description: /Interviews with industry people related to their >> past works. Brought up at GDC 2008, but currently has no assigned >> project lead./ >> >> Concerns raised previously: >> - Aims of the histories, contents, etc. >> - What to ask (I brought this up before) >> - Who can do them >> >> Someone to work on this or start organising a team of people would be >> good. Logistically this is the hardest project to manage, and >> technically we have no resources to fund it at all, meaning it >> requires heavy volunteer work. >> >> People suggesting information, examples of existing histories done, >> ways to get this going, and so forth are welcome. Basically bring >> whatever you like to the table, it's an open discussion. >> >> Andrew >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> game_preservation mailing list >> game_preservation at igda.org >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> game_preservation mailing list >> game_preservation at igda.org >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > -- Henry Lowood Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections; Film & Media Collections HRG, Green Library 557 Escondido Mall, Stanford University Libraries Stanford CA 94305-6004 USA http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood lowood at stanford.edu; 650-723-4602 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lowood at stanford.edu Sun Feb 8 23:23:34 2009 From: lowood at stanford.edu (Henry Lowood) Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2009 20:23:34 -0800 Subject: [game_preservation] Project Discussion: Digital Game Canon In-Reply-To: <498f0db5.0609c00a.3d9b.ffffbd68@mx.google.com> References: <497E2AF3.4050803@aarmstrong.org> <498C8DF4.1010605@aarmstrong.org> <498f0db5.0609c00a.3d9b.ffffbd68@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <498FAFC6.9050706@stanford.edu> Stuart, Yes, in the Preserving Virtual Worlds project, the NDIIPP work sponsored by the US Library of Congress. We are pretty far along with DOOM, and have made some progress with Star Raiders, SimCity, and Spacewar! On deck are Super Mario Bros 3 and perhaps Tetris. About Tetris, I have spoken with our own Frank Cifaldi about doing that as a community effort if he can help with that, and we are hoping to take him up on that as soon as DOOM is completed as a kind of template for the work to be done. The work done so far has taken place at the University of Illinois and Stanford. For the Stanford part, you can eavesdrop at the How They Got Game project site: http://howtheygotgame.stanford.edu Go to the wiki, then Preserving Virtual Worlds. Representative cases shows you some of the work. For now, pretty much DOOM, the rest is not on-line yet. Henry Stuart Feldhamer wrote: > > Nothing to add to the below that hasn't already been said, other than > to say that I would be happy to participate in this project if needed. > > > > Actually, I do have a question. Other than the actual selection, is > anything special currently being done to preserve the 10 titles that > have been added to the Canon so far? > > > > Stuart > > > > *From:* game_preservation-bounces at igda.org > [mailto:game_preservation-bounces at igda.org] *On Behalf Of *Andrew > Armstrong > *Sent:* Friday, February 06, 2009 2:22 PM > *To:* IGDA Game Preservation SIG > *Subject:* Re: [game_preservation] Project Discussion: Digital Game Canon > > > > This is a bump of the below discussion. The Digital Game Canon project > needs input, and I was glad Stuart brought it up before. > > Thoughts on the need for this, if anyone is interested in helping, or > just ideas about what a good future system would help. > > As Henry said, similar projects in film include the AFI ( > http://www.afi.com/ ) and also the National Film Preservation Board ( > http://www.loc.gov/film/ ) who run the National Film Registry ( > http://www.loc.gov/film/filmnfr.html ), as part of the Library of > Congress A/V Conversation ( http://www.loc.gov/avconservation/ ) > > There is no comparable project from the games industry or related > organisations. Most organisations barely keep their own history > preserved, to be honest. Even finding academic projects related to > researching which games are important to preserve has come up, > basically, entirely empty (there is some material on game preservation > in general, but not much of that really). General preservation is > great, but are those top games well preserved yet? I bet no one on > this list knows the answer. :) > > I'd love for this to be the basis of some American (or hopefully > worldwide!) project which actually could fund the preservation of > certain games (and related media) as the National Film Preservation > Board does. This is certainly also one of the main projects which has > some good stuff to read for everyone - gamers, developers, academics, > and even non-gamers to a degree (just like someone who watched few > films would look at the Film Registry). It'd require some real > lawmaking, funding, or other stuff though, but I'd be happy if it > started as a collaboration of interested archives who can store the > games independently! :) I hope they would be interested in acquiring > titles specifically if listed, and would be forerunners involved in > the project I presume. > > As for how it could be run now, I'm happy with experts. It'd be good > to get another GDC session, or have something put online (audio, or > filmed) related to the explanations behind the games. In the future, > to have more input, we could have an active committee who runs the > project with input from the public (lists of games they think need > preserving - similar to the NFPB - http://www.loc.gov/film/vote.html ) > as well as internal SIG suggestions. A set of guidelines (necessary > age, the selection of a single title or a "range" allowed, and > significance guidelines) would be a good idea, made public so it has > more credit. > > Suggestions from Devin include publishing the list in Computer Game > Studies, or Gamastura (or both) as well as our site, which sound like > a good idea if we can provide context and reasoning behind the > decision (rather then just "a list" which is actually incredibly > boring, see: most blog content ;) ). It'd be nice to advertise it > further afield, but for starters - it really just needs to be got > going again! The wiki needs finishing for the previous entries, or a > new small website built to hold the information (I have the domains, > and might be able to cook up something for this). Getting researched > articles and lists of resources related to each chosen game is also > important - when Wikipedia is the *best* description of a given > historical game's content, you know something is wrong. > > These are only my ideas - the project is currently run by Henry, who's > a lot more knowledgeable about game history in general, and why he > decided to do this in the first place :) > > Please put forward ideas, it'd be good to get this going again in some > way. > > Andrew > > Andrew Armstrong wrote: > > This is coming on from our previous discussion over spring cleaning > the SIG. > > *Digital Game Canon* > http://www.igda.org/wiki/Game_Preservation_SIG/Digital_Game_Canon > Status: /On Hold/ > Currently lead by: Henry Lowood. > Short description: /Started for a GDC 2007 session. This project > recognizes the importance of digital game culture. The Canon provides > a starting-point for the difficult task of preserving its history. > This project will need to be restarted in some capacity in the future./ > > Concerns raised previously: > - Basis for choosing 10 games a year. > - How to get it restarted without a GDC session > - Who are the people choosing the games, and the criteria they choose them > > >From Henry, running the project: "Well, the criteria were discussed > within the group, but not openly because there was no open forum. > Recall that it was a GDC event, then it became a website after that. > If we continue the project with a mode of presentation more focused on > dissemination over the web and documentation, that would give us an > opportunity to explain the criteria > > That said, the heart and soul of the enterprise is to create a list a > la what the American Film Institute has done for U.S. cinema. The > AFI's work has been a basis for preservation activities, as well." > > > You can look back to some of the older emails on some of the points > raised, but I'd prefer if they were raised again by those who are > concerned so we can get discussing them again a bit more on topic. I > do have in mind a new website to build in my spare time (which might > take a while) to host information and metadata on the different games > we add, which is doable since we'll have a small list, and soon will > have more collections for different videogame material on the IA. > > Bring whatever you can to the discussion, although Henry leads the > project so it's in his ballpark where it goes from here. > > Andrew > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > -- Henry Lowood Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections; Film & Media Collections HRG, Green Library 557 Escondido Mall, Stanford University Libraries Stanford CA 94305-6004 USA http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood lowood at stanford.edu; 650-723-4602 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lange at digitalgamearchive.org Mon Feb 9 04:22:36 2009 From: lange at digitalgamearchive.org (Andreas Lange) Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2009 10:22:36 +0100 Subject: [game_preservation] KEEP project and DiGRA2009 In-Reply-To: <498CCC0D.3000806@stanford.edu> References: <498C0EDB020000B50008101F@stirling.iso.port.ac.uk> <498CCC0D.3000806@stanford.edu> Message-ID: <498FF5DC.9090201@digitalgamearchive.org> Dear Henry, indeed this a good idea. The schedule is a little bit tight but if it makes sense it should be considered seriously. How would it be possible to make it happen? I guess that KEEP could be introduced within the roundtable meeting of the SIC, which you chair. Is there a budget from the GDC site for covering e.g. travel costs? After the kick-off meeting at Thursday/ Friday we will see clearer, what travel efforts we must expect during KEEP. Being also partly responsible for dissemination of KEEP, I can yield your suggestion in the discussion. The Pro seems to me that it is good in principle, to inform potential players so early as possible, to be able to include their suggestions in the project as early as possible. The Con might be, that it is just to early for us and it might make more sense to participate at GDC next year, when we know more and maybe have a more concrete approach to the industry. @ Dan: What do you think? Andreas Henry Lowood schrieb: > Dan, > > do you think anyone from KEEP will be attending GDC this year? > > Henry > > Dan Pinchbeck wrote: >> Hi everyone, >> >> Andreas has already let you all know about the KEEP project - I'm part >> of the UK team working on the project, focusing on metadata standards >> and front-end. >> >> One of the things we've talked about is how to launch the project >> within the games research community and there may be a really good >> opportunity for both this, and highlighting preservation work, coming >> up this year. The DiGRA conference is being hosted by Brunel >> University in London in September, and the call for papers, panels, >> etc is currently up. I think it would be a really prescient idea to >> suggest a preservation panel for the conference. We'd look for 3 -4 >> presentations within this, one of which would be KEEP and the state of >> emulation in relation to games. It would be great to also have another >> of these being directly about the work of the SIG and it's key >> members, leaving two papers open for whatever the SIG thinks is most >> appropriate. It would also be a great opportunity to get together >> those of us who can't make GDC and to look at how we can draw in the >> research community as a whole into this part of the field. >> To put it in context, there wasn't a panel like this at the 2007 >> conference, and only a single paper dealing with preservation at all >> at the 2005 conference, so it's long overdue. >> >> Any thoughts would be very welcomed. I'm happy to put together a draft >> proposal and circulate it to the SIG to formalise things. The deadline >> for proposal is 6th March >> >> All the best, >> Dan >> >> Dan Pinchbeck >> Advanced Games Research Group >> School of Creative Technologies >> University of Portsmouth, UK >> >> www.thechineseroom.co.uk >> >> _______________________________________________ >> game_preservation mailing list >> game_preservation at igda.org >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation >> > From andrew at aarmstrong.org Mon Feb 9 14:19:33 2009 From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong) Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2009 19:19:33 +0000 Subject: [game_preservation] KEEP project and DiGRA2009 In-Reply-To: <498FF5DC.9090201@digitalgamearchive.org> References: <498C0EDB020000B50008101F@stirling.iso.port.ac.uk> <498CCC0D.3000806@stanford.edu> <498FF5DC.9090201@digitalgamearchive.org> Message-ID: <499081C5.3010808@aarmstrong.org> Just to mention, GDC is very developer orientated. It's not academic in most respects, and as I've noted, a percentage nearing 0 is based on history and preservation (this year it'll likely only be our roundtable, give or take maybe an unannounced panel or presentation by some older figure in history like last year). There isn't such thing as covering travel costs from anyone I'm afraid :( You'll have to get a ticket and cover your own costs, sadly. Certainly there is no IGDA money (I'm funding my own travel, hotel, and costs over there :) ). Speakers get a pass to enter free, but no other costs considered. There's no absolute* need* to come - it would be nice, but it is short notice (the late sign up date is VERY soon!) and may be money wasted if you can't get much out of the event. I think Henry was more asking if anyone was already planning on going or was planning now the project was announced :) I'd love to see someone there representing it, but balance the money it'd cost if you haven't considered it yet. Andrew Andreas Lange wrote: > Dear Henry, > indeed this a good idea. The schedule is a little bit tight but if it > makes sense it should be considered seriously. How would it be > possible to make it happen? I guess that KEEP could be introduced > within the roundtable meeting of the SIC, which you chair. Is there a > budget from the GDC site for covering e.g. travel costs? > After the kick-off meeting at Thursday/ Friday we will see clearer, > what travel efforts we must expect during KEEP. Being also partly > responsible for dissemination of KEEP, I can yield your suggestion in > the discussion. The Pro seems to me that it is good in principle, to > inform potential players so early as possible, to be able to include > their suggestions in the project as early as possible. The Con might > be, that it is just to early for us and it might make more sense to > participate at GDC next year, when we know more and maybe have a more > concrete approach to the industry. > @ Dan: What do you think? > Andreas > > > Henry Lowood schrieb: >> Dan, >> >> do you think anyone from KEEP will be attending GDC this year? >> >> Henry >> >> Dan Pinchbeck wrote: >>> Hi everyone, >>> >>> Andreas has already let you all know about the KEEP project - I'm >>> part of the UK team working on the project, focusing on metadata >>> standards and front-end. >>> >>> One of the things we've talked about is how to launch the project >>> within the games research community and there may be a really good >>> opportunity for both this, and highlighting preservation work, >>> coming up this year. The DiGRA conference is being hosted by Brunel >>> University in London in September, and the call for papers, panels, >>> etc is currently up. I think it would be a really prescient idea to >>> suggest a preservation panel for the conference. We'd look for 3 -4 >>> presentations within this, one of which would be KEEP and the state >>> of emulation in relation to games. It would be great to also have >>> another of these being directly about the work of the SIG and it's >>> key members, leaving two papers open for whatever the SIG thinks is >>> most appropriate. It would also be a great opportunity to get >>> together those of us who can't make GDC and to look at how we can >>> draw in the research community as a whole into this part of the field. >>> To put it in context, there wasn't a panel like this at the 2007 >>> conference, and only a single paper dealing with preservation at all >>> at the 2005 conference, so it's long overdue. >>> >>> Any thoughts would be very welcomed. I'm happy to put together a >>> draft proposal and circulate it to the SIG to formalise things. The >>> deadline for proposal is 6th March >>> >>> All the best, >>> Dan >>> >>> Dan Pinchbeck >>> Advanced Games Research Group >>> School of Creative Technologies >>> University of Portsmouth, UK >>> >>> www.thechineseroom.co.uk >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> game_preservation mailing list >>> game_preservation at igda.org >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation >>> >> > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bcain at criticalmassinteractive.com Mon Feb 9 16:19:51 2009 From: bcain at criticalmassinteractive.com (Billy Cain) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 15:19:51 -0600 Subject: [game_preservation] KEEP project and DiGRA2009 In-Reply-To: <499081C5.3010808@aarmstrong.org> References: <498C0EDB020000B50008101F@stirling.iso.port.ac.uk> <498CCC0D.3000806@stanford.edu> <498FF5DC.9090201@digitalgamearchive.org> <499081C5.3010808@aarmstrong.org> Message-ID: <00c601c98afc$2519f6a0$6f4de3e0$@com> Not to say that this is inexpensive, but you don't have to buy a big pass to be effective. You can get an expo only pass that will let you network just as much as you need to. All other charges apply (air, hotel, food, taxi, etc.), but it's been my experience that there are people that would split hotel rooms to save. I've done that for the past few years. So, those are my two money-saving tips. J From: game_preservation-bounces at igda.org [mailto:game_preservation-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Armstrong Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 1:20 PM To: IGDA Game Preservation SIG Subject: Re: [game_preservation] KEEP project and DiGRA2009 Just to mention, GDC is very developer orientated. It's not academic in most respects, and as I've noted, a percentage nearing 0 is based on history and preservation (this year it'll likely only be our roundtable, give or take maybe an unannounced panel or presentation by some older figure in history like last year). There isn't such thing as covering travel costs from anyone I'm afraid :( You'll have to get a ticket and cover your own costs, sadly. Certainly there is no IGDA money (I'm funding my own travel, hotel, and costs over there :) ). Speakers get a pass to enter free, but no other costs considered. There's no absolute need to come - it would be nice, but it is short notice (the late sign up date is VERY soon!) and may be money wasted if you can't get much out of the event. I think Henry was more asking if anyone was already planning on going or was planning now the project was announced :) I'd love to see someone there representing it, but balance the money it'd cost if you haven't considered it yet. Andrew Andreas Lange wrote: Dear Henry, indeed this a good idea. The schedule is a little bit tight but if it makes sense it should be considered seriously. How would it be possible to make it happen? I guess that KEEP could be introduced within the roundtable meeting of the SIC, which you chair. Is there a budget from the GDC site for covering e.g. travel costs? After the kick-off meeting at Thursday/ Friday we will see clearer, what travel efforts we must expect during KEEP. Being also partly responsible for dissemination of KEEP, I can yield your suggestion in the discussion. The Pro seems to me that it is good in principle, to inform potential players so early as possible, to be able to include their suggestions in the project as early as possible. The Con might be, that it is just to early for us and it might make more sense to participate at GDC next year, when we know more and maybe have a more concrete approach to the industry. @ Dan: What do you think? Andreas Henry Lowood schrieb: Dan, do you think anyone from KEEP will be attending GDC this year? Henry Dan Pinchbeck wrote: Hi everyone, Andreas has already let you all know about the KEEP project - I'm part of the UK team working on the project, focusing on metadata standards and front-end. One of the things we've talked about is how to launch the project within the games research community and there may be a really good opportunity for both this, and highlighting preservation work, coming up this year. The DiGRA conference is being hosted by Brunel University in London in September, and the call for papers, panels, etc is currently up. I think it would be a really prescient idea to suggest a preservation panel for the conference. We'd look for 3 -4 presentations within this, one of which would be KEEP and the state of emulation in relation to games. It would be great to also have another of these being directly about the work of the SIG and it's key members, leaving two papers open for whatever the SIG thinks is most appropriate. It would also be a great opportunity to get together those of us who can't make GDC and to look at how we can draw in the research community as a whole into this part of the field. To put it in context, there wasn't a panel like this at the 2007 conference, and only a single paper dealing with preservation at all at the 2005 conference, so it's long overdue. Any thoughts would be very welcomed. I'm happy to put together a draft proposal and circulate it to the SIG to formalise things. The deadline for proposal is 6th March All the best, Dan Dan Pinchbeck Advanced Games Research Group School of Creative Technologies University of Portsmouth, UK www.thechineseroom.co.uk _______________________________________________ game_preservation mailing list game_preservation at igda.org http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation _______________________________________________ game_preservation mailing list game_preservation at igda.org http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.19/1940 - Release Date: 02/08/09 17:57:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Dan.Pinchbeck at port.ac.uk Mon Feb 9 17:27:56 2009 From: Dan.Pinchbeck at port.ac.uk (Dan Pinchbeck) Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2009 22:27:56 +0000 Subject: [game_preservation] DiGRA panel further information Message-ID: <4990ADEC020000B500081648@stirling.iso.port.ac.uk> Hi all, As promised, so more information on the DiGRA conference and the proposed panel session. This is from DiGRA's site (www.digra.org) regarding the call for papers: DiGRA 2009 - Breaking New Ground: Innovation in Games, Play, Practice and Theory Brunel University, West London, United Kingdom, Tuesday 1st September -- Friday 4th September 2009 The South of Britain Consortium are pleased to announce the Call for Papers for the Digital Games Research Association 2009. DiGRA is an organisation that embraces all aspects of game studies, and the conference aims to provide a diverse platform for discussion, and a lively forum for debate. We therefore welcome papers from any discipline focused on any aspect of games, play, game culture and the games industry. The conference will be the fourth DiGRA conference, following Utrecht, Vancouver and Tokyo, and welcomes contributions from scholars working in any area of interest to the association. : DiGRA themselves are a body of academics and researchers ranging right across games as a field, with a tendency toward the theoretical, and a focus best described as humanities and social sciences, rather than technical. The last few conferences have been extremely interesting and generally speaking, pretty much all games researchers keep a close eye on the proceedings or attempt to present (or at least attend). In terms of games and culture, in which sub-field I'd position preservation (please correct me if that's horribly out of line), it's basically *the* academic conference to be at. : In terms of the panel, this is what is required: Panel proposals ? 3 ? 4 papers which address a common theme, a common research method, a shared conceptual issue etc. or Workshops ? proposals are invited for 2 ? 3 hour workshops that address a range of themes relevant to the aims of the association. Workshops that are particularly targeted at a wide audience are most welcome. To submit, abstracts (500-700 words) of each paper are required (full papers can also be submitted, but it's a little tight on time for that). The workshop is an interesting idea, but I'm not sure we have enough time to fill it. What I'd suggest is therefore the following: Game Preservation Panel Paper One: The state of play in game preservation and the role of the academic community in this (Please excuse the corny pun, and note this really is a suggestion only. I think this would be the opportunity for the SIG to plant it's flag in the ground and gather support and encourage debate amongst the academic community) Paper Two: Migration, Emulation and the KEEP project (in which we discuss the particular issues with game preservation, the methodologies adopted, and why KEEP is a significant project) That leaves two papers to fill. We can do this in one of two ways: 1. Come up with a prioritised paper: in other words, a topic the SIG agrees must be covered in the panel and that someone agrees to write and present 2. Place an open call on the SIG and through games network and archiving email lists to invite contributions. I prefer this option - it also gives us a chance to see what academic work is being done out there and possibly draw new researchers to the SIG The work to be done would therefore be: a. Write the draft core proposal (I can do this) b. Agree who is writing and presenting Paper One (I can't do this, I'll cover paper two with colleagues here, and I'm happy to offer to chair the session) c. Either agree on 1-2 papers and authors and write those abstracts! d. Or draft a call (I can do this), release it (I can do this, but others will need to spread the word too) and put together a small editorial team to read any abstracts received and decide what will be included (I can co-ordinate this, but will need 2-3 other names to undertake the review process) Think we can do this? Please let me know thoughts, etc. Dan PS - GDC: not sure it 's going to happen this time around, but we will probably disthat it would be a very good thing to have something technical, rather than just conceptual, on the table before attending... ;) Dan Pinchbeck Advanced Games Research Group School of Creative Technologies University of Portsmouth, UK www.thechineseroom.co.uk From lowood at stanford.edu Mon Feb 9 17:56:46 2009 From: lowood at stanford.edu (Henry Lowood) Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2009 14:56:46 -0800 Subject: [game_preservation] KEEP project and DiGRA2009 In-Reply-To: <499081C5.3010808@aarmstrong.org> References: <498C0EDB020000B50008101F@stirling.iso.port.ac.uk> <498CCC0D.3000806@stanford.edu> <498FF5DC.9090201@digitalgamearchive.org> <499081C5.3010808@aarmstrong.org> Message-ID: <4990B4AE.1030708@stanford.edu> Andreas, That's right. I was just going to invite make sure that if anyone is attending, they know about the roundtable (and come to it!), as well as the possibility of booking a room for a special get-together on any topic. A propos, I will book at least one special meeting, because a couple of discussion topics have come up. But I'm waiting for the conference schedule to come out, so I can plan accordingly. Henry Andrew Armstrong wrote: > Just to mention, GDC is very developer orientated. It's not academic > in most respects, and as I've noted, a percentage nearing 0 is based > on history and preservation (this year it'll likely only be our > roundtable, give or take maybe an unannounced panel or presentation by > some older figure in history like last year). > > There isn't such thing as covering travel costs from anyone I'm afraid > :( You'll have to get a ticket and cover your own costs, sadly. > Certainly there is no IGDA money (I'm funding my own travel, hotel, > and costs over there :) ). Speakers get a pass to enter free, but no > other costs considered. > > There's no absolute* need* to come - it would be nice, but it is short > notice (the late sign up date is VERY soon!) and may be money wasted > if you can't get much out of the event. I think Henry was more asking > if anyone was already planning on going or was planning now the > project was announced :) > > I'd love to see someone there representing it, but balance the money > it'd cost if you haven't considered it yet. > > Andrew > > Andreas Lange wrote: >> Dear Henry, >> indeed this a good idea. The schedule is a little bit tight but if it >> makes sense it should be considered seriously. How would it be >> possible to make it happen? I guess that KEEP could be introduced >> within the roundtable meeting of the SIC, which you chair. Is there a >> budget from the GDC site for covering e.g. travel costs? >> After the kick-off meeting at Thursday/ Friday we will see clearer, >> what travel efforts we must expect during KEEP. Being also partly >> responsible for dissemination of KEEP, I can yield your suggestion in >> the discussion. The Pro seems to me that it is good in principle, to >> inform potential players so early as possible, to be able to include >> their suggestions in the project as early as possible. The Con might >> be, that it is just to early for us and it might make more sense to >> participate at GDC next year, when we know more and maybe have a more >> concrete approach to the industry. >> @ Dan: What do you think? >> Andreas >> >> >> Henry Lowood schrieb: >>> Dan, >>> >>> do you think anyone from KEEP will be attending GDC this year? >>> >>> Henry >>> >>> Dan Pinchbeck wrote: >>>> Hi everyone, >>>> >>>> Andreas has already let you all know about the KEEP project - I'm >>>> part of the UK team working on the project, focusing on metadata >>>> standards and front-end. >>>> >>>> One of the things we've talked about is how to launch the project >>>> within the games research community and there may be a really good >>>> opportunity for both this, and highlighting preservation work, >>>> coming up this year. The DiGRA conference is being hosted by Brunel >>>> University in London in September, and the call for papers, panels, >>>> etc is currently up. I think it would be a really prescient idea to >>>> suggest a preservation panel for the conference. We'd look for 3 -4 >>>> presentations within this, one of which would be KEEP and the state >>>> of emulation in relation to games. It would be great to also have >>>> another of these being directly about the work of the SIG and it's >>>> key members, leaving two papers open for whatever the SIG thinks is >>>> most appropriate. It would also be a great opportunity to get >>>> together those of us who can't make GDC and to look at how we can >>>> draw in the research community as a whole into this part of the field. >>>> To put it in context, there wasn't a panel like this at the 2007 >>>> conference, and only a single paper dealing with preservation at >>>> all at the 2005 conference, so it's long overdue. >>>> >>>> Any thoughts would be very welcomed. I'm happy to put together a >>>> draft proposal and circulate it to the SIG to formalise things. The >>>> deadline for proposal is 6th March >>>> >>>> All the best, >>>> Dan >>>> >>>> Dan Pinchbeck >>>> Advanced Games Research Group >>>> School of Creative Technologies >>>> University of Portsmouth, UK >>>> >>>> www.thechineseroom.co.uk >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> game_preservation mailing list >>>> game_preservation at igda.org >>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation >>>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> game_preservation mailing list >> game_preservation at igda.org >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > -- Henry Lowood, Ph.D. Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections; Film & Media Collections HRG, Green Library, 557 Escondido Mall Stanford University Libraries Stanford CA 94305-6004 650-723-4602; lowood at stanford.edu; http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood From andrew at aarmstrong.org Mon Feb 9 18:06:42 2009 From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong) Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2009 23:06:42 +0000 Subject: [game_preservation] DiGRA panel further information In-Reply-To: <4990ADEC020000B500081648@stirling.iso.port.ac.uk> References: <4990ADEC020000B500081648@stirling.iso.port.ac.uk> Message-ID: <4990B702.3020702@aarmstrong.org> First thing to note is the deadline, a very fast approaching Friday 6 March 5pm GMT! For paper one, well, it's difficult - while there are academics on here, there are not, I'm led to believe, a lot (or a lot of active ones who read this list at least). You might need to solicit views or a writer from outside the SIG when it comes down to it, just to be honest :) (I can't write it myself, I'm not an academic and it'd take a fair bit of research on my part to get ideas together for the paper since I don't work in a University, as such :) ). One other quick suggestion, since I'm not good on the paper writing front (although I'll chip in after discussions have started here :) ) would, in a pinch, the SIG's white paper on the importance of videogame preservation be suitable to fill a slot? I'm sure we could get it edited by March. Looks good though, if I can help (and as a last resort I can help write a paper or I can review some), please keep me in mind. Also, can you explain to someone who hasn't been what the format of past events has been? I presume doing an hour-ish presentation on your paper? or what? discussions? panels? I'm not too straight on that :) it'd be nice to know before I go to it. Andrew Dan Pinchbeck wrote: > Hi all, > > As promised, so more information on the DiGRA conference and the > proposed panel session. > > This is from DiGRA's site (www.digra.org) regarding the call for papers: > > DiGRA 2009 - Breaking New Ground: Innovation in Games, Play, Practice > and Theory > > Brunel University, West London, United Kingdom, Tuesday 1st September -- > Friday 4th September 2009 > > The South of Britain Consortium are pleased to announce the Call for > Papers for the Digital Games Research Association 2009. DiGRA is an > organisation that embraces all aspects of game studies, and the > conference aims to provide a diverse platform for discussion, and a > lively forum for debate. We therefore welcome papers from any discipline > focused on any aspect of games, play, game culture and the games > industry. The conference will be the fourth DiGRA conference, following > Utrecht, Vancouver and Tokyo, and welcomes contributions from scholars > working in any area of interest to the association. > > : > > DiGRA themselves are a body of academics and researchers ranging right > across games as a field, with a tendency toward the theoretical, and a > focus best described as humanities and social sciences, rather than > technical. The last few conferences have been extremely interesting and > generally speaking, pretty much all games researchers keep a close eye > on the proceedings or attempt to present (or at least attend). In terms > of games and culture, in which sub-field I'd position preservation > (please correct me if that's horribly out of line), it's basically *the* > academic conference to be at. > > : > > In terms of the panel, this is what is required: > > Panel proposals ? 3 ? 4 papers which address a common theme, a common > research method, a shared conceptual issue etc. > > or > > Workshops ? proposals are invited for 2 ? 3 hour workshops that address > a range of themes relevant to the aims of the association. Workshops > that are particularly targeted at a wide audience are most welcome. > > To submit, abstracts (500-700 words) of each paper are required (full > papers can also be submitted, but it's a little tight on time for that). > The workshop is an interesting idea, but I'm not sure we have enough > time to fill it. What I'd suggest is therefore the following: > > Game Preservation Panel > Paper One: The state of play in game preservation and the role of the > academic community in this > (Please excuse the corny pun, and note this really is a suggestion only. > I think this would be the opportunity for the SIG to plant it's flag in > the ground and gather support and encourage debate amongst the academic > community) > Paper Two: Migration, Emulation and the KEEP project > (in which we discuss the particular issues with game preservation, the > methodologies adopted, and why KEEP is a significant project) > > That leaves two papers to fill. We can do this in one of two ways: > > 1. Come up with a prioritised paper: in other words, a topic the SIG > agrees must be covered in the panel and that someone agrees to write and > present > 2. Place an open call on the SIG and through games network and archiving > email lists to invite contributions. I prefer this option - it also > gives us a chance to see what academic work is being done out there and > possibly draw new researchers to the SIG > > The work to be done would therefore be: > > a. Write the draft core proposal (I can do this) > b. Agree who is writing and presenting Paper One (I can't do this, I'll > cover paper two with colleagues here, and I'm happy to offer to chair > the session) > c. Either agree on 1-2 papers and authors and write those abstracts! > d. Or draft a call (I can do this), release it (I can do this, but > others will need to spread the word too) and put together a small > editorial team to read any abstracts received and decide what will be > included (I can co-ordinate this, but will need 2-3 other names to > undertake the review process) > > > Think we can do this? Please let me know thoughts, etc. > > Dan > > PS - GDC: not sure it > 's going to happen this time around, but we will > probably disthat it would be a very good thing to have something technical, rather > than just conceptual, on the table before attending... ;) > > > > > > Dan Pinchbeck > Advanced Games Research Group > School of Creative Technologies > University of Portsmouth, UK > > www.thechineseroom.co.uk > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > From stuart.feldhamer at gmail.com Mon Feb 9 19:29:07 2009 From: stuart.feldhamer at gmail.com (Stuart Feldhamer) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 19:29:07 -0500 Subject: [game_preservation] KEEP project and DiGRA2009 In-Reply-To: <00c601c98afc$2519f6a0$6f4de3e0$@com> References: <498C0EDB020000B50008101F@stirling.iso.port.ac.uk> <498CCC0D.3000806@stanford.edu> <498FF5DC.9090201@digitalgamearchive.org> <499081C5.3010808@aarmstrong.org> <00c601c98afc$2519f6a0$6f4de3e0$@com> Message-ID: <4990ca58.4467260a.67af.ffff92dd@mx.google.com> Or you could do what I did last year, just go to the IGDA party J Stuart From: game_preservation-bounces at igda.org [mailto:game_preservation-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Billy Cain Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 4:20 PM To: 'IGDA Game Preservation SIG' Subject: Re: [game_preservation] KEEP project and DiGRA2009 Not to say that this is inexpensive, but you don't have to buy a big pass to be effective. You can get an expo only pass that will let you network just as much as you need to. All other charges apply (air, hotel, food, taxi, etc.), but it's been my experience that there are people that would split hotel rooms to save. I've done that for the past few years. So, those are my two money-saving tips. J From: game_preservation-bounces at igda.org [mailto:game_preservation-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Armstrong Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 1:20 PM To: IGDA Game Preservation SIG Subject: Re: [game_preservation] KEEP project and DiGRA2009 Just to mention, GDC is very developer orientated. It's not academic in most respects, and as I've noted, a percentage nearing 0 is based on history and preservation (this year it'll likely only be our roundtable, give or take maybe an unannounced panel or presentation by some older figure in history like last year). There isn't such thing as covering travel costs from anyone I'm afraid :( You'll have to get a ticket and cover your own costs, sadly. Certainly there is no IGDA money (I'm funding my own travel, hotel, and costs over there :) ). Speakers get a pass to enter free, but no other costs considered. There's no absolute need to come - it would be nice, but it is short notice (the late sign up date is VERY soon!) and may be money wasted if you can't get much out of the event. I think Henry was more asking if anyone was already planning on going or was planning now the project was announced :) I'd love to see someone there representing it, but balance the money it'd cost if you haven't considered it yet. Andrew Andreas Lange wrote: Dear Henry, indeed this a good idea. The schedule is a little bit tight but if it makes sense it should be considered seriously. How would it be possible to make it happen? I guess that KEEP could be introduced within the roundtable meeting of the SIC, which you chair. Is there a budget from the GDC site for covering e.g. travel costs? After the kick-off meeting at Thursday/ Friday we will see clearer, what travel efforts we must expect during KEEP. Being also partly responsible for dissemination of KEEP, I can yield your suggestion in the discussion. The Pro seems to me that it is good in principle, to inform potential players so early as possible, to be able to include their suggestions in the project as early as possible. The Con might be, that it is just to early for us and it might make more sense to participate at GDC next year, when we know more and maybe have a more concrete approach to the industry. @ Dan: What do you think? Andreas Henry Lowood schrieb: Dan, do you think anyone from KEEP will be attending GDC this year? Henry Dan Pinchbeck wrote: Hi everyone, Andreas has already let you all know about the KEEP project - I'm part of the UK team working on the project, focusing on metadata standards and front-end. One of the things we've talked about is how to launch the project within the games research community and there may be a really good opportunity for both this, and highlighting preservation work, coming up this year. The DiGRA conference is being hosted by Brunel University in London in September, and the call for papers, panels, etc is currently up. I think it would be a really prescient idea to suggest a preservation panel for the conference. We'd look for 3 -4 presentations within this, one of which would be KEEP and the state of emulation in relation to games. It would be great to also have another of these being directly about the work of the SIG and it's key members, leaving two papers open for whatever the SIG thinks is most appropriate. It would also be a great opportunity to get together those of us who can't make GDC and to look at how we can draw in the research community as a whole into this part of the field. To put it in context, there wasn't a panel like this at the 2007 conference, and only a single paper dealing with preservation at all at the 2005 conference, so it's long overdue. Any thoughts would be very welcomed. I'm happy to put together a draft proposal and circulate it to the SIG to formalise things. The deadline for proposal is 6th March All the best, Dan Dan Pinchbeck Advanced Games Research Group School of Creative Technologies University of Portsmouth, UK www.thechineseroom.co.uk _______________________________________________ game_preservation mailing list game_preservation at igda.org http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation _______________________________________________ game_preservation mailing list game_preservation at igda.org http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.19/1940 - Release Date: 02/08/09 17:57:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From evilcowclone at gmail.com Mon Feb 9 19:58:01 2009 From: evilcowclone at gmail.com (Devin Monnens) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 17:58:01 -0700 Subject: [game_preservation] DiGRA panel further information In-Reply-To: <4990B702.3020702@aarmstrong.org> References: <4990ADEC020000B500081648@stirling.iso.port.ac.uk> <4990B702.3020702@aarmstrong.org> Message-ID: Seconded. Why don't we submit the paper we're having published for GDC? Of course, I think the panel is best. The IGDA paper can be part of the panel discussion, but there are other important things we can talk about too like different game preservation groups. -Devin On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 4:06 PM, Andrew Armstrong wrote: > First thing to note is the deadline, a very fast approaching Friday 6 March > 5pm GMT! > > For paper one, well, it's difficult - while there are academics on here, > there are not, I'm led to believe, a lot (or a lot of active ones who read > this list at least). You might need to solicit views or a writer from > outside the SIG when it comes down to it, just to be honest :) (I can't > write it myself, I'm not an academic and it'd take a fair bit of research on > my part to get ideas together for the paper since I don't work in a > University, as such :) ). > > One other quick suggestion, since I'm not good on the paper writing front > (although I'll chip in after discussions have started here :) ) would, in a > pinch, the SIG's white paper on the importance of videogame preservation be > suitable to fill a slot? I'm sure we could get it edited by March. > > Looks good though, if I can help (and as a last resort I can help write a > paper or I can review some), please keep me in mind. > > Also, can you explain to someone who hasn't been what the format of past > events has been? I presume doing an hour-ish presentation on your paper? or > what? discussions? panels? I'm not too straight on that :) it'd be nice to > know before I go to it. > > Andrew > > > Dan Pinchbeck wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> As promised, so more information on the DiGRA conference and the >> proposed panel session. >> This is from DiGRA's site (www.digra.org) regarding the call for papers: >> >> DiGRA 2009 - Breaking New Ground: Innovation in Games, Play, Practice >> and Theory >> >> Brunel University, West London, United Kingdom, Tuesday 1st September -- >> Friday 4th September 2009 >> >> The South of Britain Consortium are pleased to announce the Call for >> Papers for the Digital Games Research Association 2009. DiGRA is an >> organisation that embraces all aspects of game studies, and the >> conference aims to provide a diverse platform for discussion, and a >> lively forum for debate. We therefore welcome papers from any discipline >> focused on any aspect of games, play, game culture and the games >> industry. The conference will be the fourth DiGRA conference, following >> Utrecht, Vancouver and Tokyo, and welcomes contributions from scholars >> working in any area of interest to the association. >> : >> >> DiGRA themselves are a body of academics and researchers ranging right >> across games as a field, with a tendency toward the theoretical, and a >> focus best described as humanities and social sciences, rather than >> technical. The last few conferences have been extremely interesting and >> generally speaking, pretty much all games researchers keep a close eye >> on the proceedings or attempt to present (or at least attend). In terms >> of games and culture, in which sub-field I'd position preservation >> (please correct me if that's horribly out of line), it's basically *the* >> academic conference to be at. >> : >> >> In terms of the panel, this is what is required: >> >> Panel proposals ? 3 ? 4 papers which address a common theme, a common >> research method, a shared conceptual issue etc. >> >> or >> Workshops ? proposals are invited for 2 ? 3 hour workshops that address >> a range of themes relevant to the aims of the association. Workshops >> that are particularly targeted at a wide audience are most welcome. >> >> To submit, abstracts (500-700 words) of each paper are required (full >> papers can also be submitted, but it's a little tight on time for that). >> The workshop is an interesting idea, but I'm not sure we have enough >> time to fill it. What I'd suggest is therefore the following: >> >> Game Preservation Panel Paper One: The state of play in game preservation >> and the role of the >> academic community in this (Please excuse the corny pun, and note this >> really is a suggestion only. >> I think this would be the opportunity for the SIG to plant it's flag in >> the ground and gather support and encourage debate amongst the academic >> community) >> Paper Two: Migration, Emulation and the KEEP project >> (in which we discuss the particular issues with game preservation, the >> methodologies adopted, and why KEEP is a significant project) >> >> That leaves two papers to fill. We can do this in one of two ways: >> >> 1. Come up with a prioritised paper: in other words, a topic the SIG >> agrees must be covered in the panel and that someone agrees to write and >> present >> 2. Place an open call on the SIG and through games network and archiving >> email lists to invite contributions. I prefer this option - it also >> gives us a chance to see what academic work is being done out there and >> possibly draw new researchers to the SIG >> >> The work to be done would therefore be: >> >> a. Write the draft core proposal (I can do this) >> b. Agree who is writing and presenting Paper One (I can't do this, I'll >> cover paper two with colleagues here, and I'm happy to offer to chair >> the session) >> c. Either agree on 1-2 papers and authors and write those abstracts! >> d. Or draft a call (I can do this), release it (I can do this, but >> others will need to spread the word too) and put together a small >> editorial team to read any abstracts received and decide what will be >> included (I can co-ordinate this, but will need 2-3 other names to >> undertake the review process) >> >> >> Think we can do this? Please let me know thoughts, etc. >> >> Dan >> >> PS - GDC: not sure it >> 's going to happen this time around, but we will >> probably disthat it would be a very good thing to have something >> technical, rather >> than just conceptual, on the table before attending... ;) >> >> >> >> >> >> Dan Pinchbeck >> Advanced Games Research Group >> School of Creative Technologies >> University of Portsmouth, UK >> >> www.thechineseroom.co.uk >> >> _______________________________________________ >> game_preservation mailing list >> game_preservation at igda.org >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation >> >> > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > -- The sleep of Reason produces monsters. "Until next time..." Captain Commando -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From evilcowclone at gmail.com Mon Feb 9 20:02:04 2009 From: evilcowclone at gmail.com (Devin Monnens) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 18:02:04 -0700 Subject: [game_preservation] KEEP project and DiGRA2009 In-Reply-To: <4990ca58.4467260a.67af.ffff92dd@mx.google.com> References: <498C0EDB020000B50008101F@stirling.iso.port.ac.uk> <498CCC0D.3000806@stanford.edu> <498FF5DC.9090201@digitalgamearchive.org> <499081C5.3010808@aarmstrong.org> <00c601c98afc$2519f6a0$6f4de3e0$@com> <4990ca58.4467260a.67af.ffff92dd@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Is it possible to have an IGDA Preservation SIG dinner? I mean, different SIGs and chapters do this, why not schedule one the night after the roundtable? BTW, if anyone is going and doesn't have a hotel yet, let me know. I know someone who might be able to share a hotel room (if I'm going, I'll be staying with him, but if we can split it three ways it's even cheaper - only a half mile from the convention center, too). -Devin On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 5:29 PM, Stuart Feldhamer wrote: > Or you could do what I did last year, just go to the IGDA party J > > > > Stuart > > > > *From:* game_preservation-bounces at igda.org [mailto: > game_preservation-bounces at igda.org] *On Behalf Of *Billy Cain > > *Sent:* Monday, February 09, 2009 4:20 PM > *To:* 'IGDA Game Preservation SIG' > *Subject:* Re: [game_preservation] KEEP project and DiGRA2009 > > > > Not to say that this is inexpensive, but you don't have to buy a big pass > to be effective. You can get an expo only pass that will let you network > just as much as you need to. > > > > All other charges apply (air, hotel, food, taxi, etc.), but it's been my > experience that there are people that would split hotel rooms to save. I've > done that for the past few years. > > > > So, those are my two money-saving tips. J > > > > *From:* game_preservation-bounces at igda.org [mailto: > game_preservation-bounces at igda.org] *On Behalf Of *Andrew Armstrong > *Sent:* Monday, February 09, 2009 1:20 PM > *To:* IGDA Game Preservation SIG > *Subject:* Re: [game_preservation] KEEP project and DiGRA2009 > > > > Just to mention, GDC is very developer orientated. It's not academic in > most respects, and as I've noted, a percentage nearing 0 is based on history > and preservation (this year it'll likely only be our roundtable, give or > take maybe an unannounced panel or presentation by some older figure in > history like last year). > > There isn't such thing as covering travel costs from anyone I'm afraid :( > You'll have to get a ticket and cover your own costs, sadly. Certainly there > is no IGDA money (I'm funding my own travel, hotel, and costs over there :) > ). Speakers get a pass to enter free, but no other costs considered. > > There's no absolute* need* to come - it would be nice, but it is short > notice (the late sign up date is VERY soon!) and may be money wasted if you > can't get much out of the event. I think Henry was more asking if anyone was > already planning on going or was planning now the project was announced :) > > I'd love to see someone there representing it, but balance the money it'd > cost if you haven't considered it yet. > > Andrew > > Andreas Lange wrote: > > Dear Henry, > indeed this a good idea. The schedule is a little bit tight but if it makes > sense it should be considered seriously. How would it be possible to make it > happen? I guess that KEEP could be introduced within the roundtable meeting > of the SIC, which you chair. Is there a budget from the GDC site for > covering e.g. travel costs? > After the kick-off meeting at Thursday/ Friday we will see clearer, what > travel efforts we must expect during KEEP. Being also partly responsible for > dissemination of KEEP, I can yield your suggestion in the discussion. The > Pro seems to me that it is good in principle, to inform potential players so > early as possible, to be able to include their suggestions in the project as > early as possible. The Con might be, that it is just to early for us and it > might make more sense to participate at GDC next year, when we know more and > maybe have a more concrete approach to the industry. > @ Dan: What do you think? > Andreas > > > Henry Lowood schrieb: > > Dan, > > do you think anyone from KEEP will be attending GDC this year? > > Henry > > Dan Pinchbeck wrote: > > Hi everyone, > > Andreas has already let you all know about the KEEP project - I'm part of > the UK team working on the project, focusing on metadata standards and > front-end. > > One of the things we've talked about is how to launch the project within > the games research community and there may be a really good opportunity for > both this, and highlighting preservation work, coming up this year. The > DiGRA conference is being hosted by Brunel University in London in > September, and the call for papers, panels, etc is currently up. I think it > would be a really prescient idea to suggest a preservation panel for the > conference. We'd look for 3 -4 presentations within this, one of which would > be KEEP and the state of emulation in relation to games. It would be great > to also have another of these being directly about the work of the SIG and > it's key members, leaving two papers open for whatever the SIG thinks is > most appropriate. It would also be a great opportunity to get together those > of us who can't make GDC and to look at how we can draw in the research > community as a whole into this part of the field. > To put it in context, there wasn't a panel like this at the 2007 > conference, and only a single paper dealing with preservation at all at the > 2005 conference, so it's long overdue. > > Any thoughts would be very welcomed. I'm happy to put together a draft > proposal and circulate it to the SIG to formalise things. The deadline for > proposal is 6th March > > All the best, > Dan > > Dan Pinchbeck > Advanced Games Research Group > School of Creative Technologies > University of Portsmouth, UK > > www.thechineseroom.co.uk > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.19/1940 - Release Date: 02/08/09 > 17:57:00 > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > > -- The sleep of Reason produces monsters. "Until next time..." Captain Commando -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lowood at stanford.edu Tue Feb 10 01:10:13 2009 From: lowood at stanford.edu (Henry Lowood) Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2009 22:10:13 -0800 Subject: [game_preservation] KEEP project and DiGRA2009 In-Reply-To: References: <498C0EDB020000B50008101F@stirling.iso.port.ac.uk> <498CCC0D.3000806@stanford.edu> <498FF5DC.9090201@digitalgamearchive.org> <499081C5.3010808@aarmstrong.org> <00c601c98afc$2519f6a0$6f4de3e0$@com> <4990ca58.4467260a.67af.ffff92dd@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <49911A45.6060208@stanford.edu> Hi Devin, Dinner will be tough for me, as I already have three scheduled! However, lunch is free any day except Monday. Henry Devin Monnens wrote: > Is it possible to have an IGDA Preservation SIG dinner? I mean, > different SIGs and chapters do this, why not schedule one the night > after the roundtable? > > BTW, if anyone is going and doesn't have a hotel yet, let me know. I > know someone who might be able to share a hotel room (if I'm going, > I'll be staying with him, but if we can split it three ways it's even > cheaper - only a half mile from the convention center, too). > > -Devin > > On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 5:29 PM, Stuart Feldhamer > > wrote: > > Or you could do what I did last year, just go to the IGDA party J > > > > Stuart > > > > *From:* game_preservation-bounces at igda.org > > [mailto:game_preservation-bounces at igda.org > ] *On Behalf Of *Billy > Cain > > *Sent:* Monday, February 09, 2009 4:20 PM > *To:* 'IGDA Game Preservation SIG' > *Subject:* Re: [game_preservation] KEEP project and DiGRA2009 > > > > Not to say that this is inexpensive, but you don't have to buy a > big pass to be effective. You can get an expo only pass that will > let you network just as much as you need to. > > > > All other charges apply (air, hotel, food, taxi, etc.), but it's > been my experience that there are people that would split hotel > rooms to save. I've done that for the past few years. > > > > So, those are my two money-saving tips. J > > > > *From:* game_preservation-bounces at igda.org > > [mailto:game_preservation-bounces at igda.org > ] *On Behalf Of *Andrew > Armstrong > *Sent:* Monday, February 09, 2009 1:20 PM > *To:* IGDA Game Preservation SIG > *Subject:* Re: [game_preservation] KEEP project and DiGRA2009 > > > > Just to mention, GDC is very developer orientated. It's not > academic in most respects, and as I've noted, a percentage nearing > 0 is based on history and preservation (this year it'll likely > only be our roundtable, give or take maybe an unannounced panel or > presentation by some older figure in history like last year). > > There isn't such thing as covering travel costs from anyone I'm > afraid :( You'll have to get a ticket and cover your own costs, > sadly. Certainly there is no IGDA money (I'm funding my own > travel, hotel, and costs over there :) ). Speakers get a pass to > enter free, but no other costs considered. > > There's no absolute* need* to come - it would be nice, but it is > short notice (the late sign up date is VERY soon!) and may be > money wasted if you can't get much out of the event. I think Henry > was more asking if anyone was already planning on going or was > planning now the project was announced :) > > I'd love to see someone there representing it, but balance the > money it'd cost if you haven't considered it yet. > > Andrew > > Andreas Lange wrote: > > Dear Henry, > indeed this a good idea. The schedule is a little bit tight but if > it makes sense it should be considered seriously. How would it be > possible to make it happen? I guess that KEEP could be introduced > within the roundtable meeting of the SIC, which you chair. Is > there a budget from the GDC site for covering e.g. travel costs? > After the kick-off meeting at Thursday/ Friday we will see > clearer, what travel efforts we must expect during KEEP. Being > also partly responsible for dissemination of KEEP, I can yield > your suggestion in the discussion. The Pro seems to me that it is > good in principle, to inform potential players so early as > possible, to be able to include their suggestions in the project > as early as possible. The Con might be, that it is just to early > for us and it might make more sense to participate at GDC next > year, when we know more and maybe have a more concrete approach to > the industry. > @ Dan: What do you think? > Andreas > > > Henry Lowood schrieb: > > Dan, > > do you think anyone from KEEP will be attending GDC this year? > > Henry > > Dan Pinchbeck wrote: > > Hi everyone, > > Andreas has already let you all know about the KEEP project - I'm > part of the UK team working on the project, focusing on metadata > standards and front-end. > > One of the things we've talked about is how to launch the project > within the games research community and there may be a really good > opportunity for both this, and highlighting preservation work, > coming up this year. The DiGRA conference is being hosted by > Brunel University in London in September, and the call for papers, > panels, etc is currently up. I think it would be a really > prescient idea to suggest a preservation panel for the conference. > We'd look for 3 -4 presentations within this, one of which would > be KEEP and the state of emulation in relation to games. It would > be great to also have another of these being directly about the > work of the SIG and it's key members, leaving two papers open for > whatever the SIG thinks is most appropriate. It would also be a > great opportunity to get together those of us who can't make GDC > and to look at how we can draw in the research community as a > whole into this part of the field. > To put it in context, there wasn't a panel like this at the 2007 > conference, and only a single paper dealing with preservation at > all at the 2005 conference, so it's long overdue. > > Any thoughts would be very welcomed. I'm happy to put together a > draft proposal and circulate it to the SIG to formalise things. > The deadline for proposal is 6th March > > All the best, > Dan > > Dan Pinchbeck > Advanced Games Research Group > School of Creative Technologies > University of Portsmouth, UK > > www.thechineseroom.co.uk > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.19/1940 - Release Date: > 02/08/09 17:57:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > > > > > -- > The sleep of Reason produces monsters. > > "Until next time..." > Captain Commando > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > -- Henry Lowood Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections; Film & Media Collections HRG, Green Library 557 Escondido Mall, Stanford University Libraries Stanford CA 94305-6004 USA http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood lowood at stanford.edu; 650-723-4602 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Dan.Pinchbeck at port.ac.uk Tue Feb 10 03:20:12 2009 From: Dan.Pinchbeck at port.ac.uk (Dan Pinchbeck) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 08:20:12 +0000 Subject: [game_preservation] DiGRA panel further information Message-ID: <499138BC020000B500081694@stirling.iso.port.ac.uk> Has the white paper been published elsewhere? If not, that sounds like a good idea. Editing it down shouldn't be too major a task - and I'm not sure it needs major academic writing, that's not the point. I think the focus should be more along the lines of "this is what is going on, this is what needs to be done, this is how academics factor into the picture". Published papers for the conference have a cap of 6000 words for the final piece. I'm happy to help out with that if it makes the cut, but just can't take that on alongside putting together the general framework and the KEEP paper and the call for other papers... Normal format would be about 20 minutes for presentation with 10 minutes for questions. I'd assume a 90 minute or two hour total slot, depending on the number of papers in total. Dan Dan Pinchbeck Advanced Games Research Group School of Creative Technologies University of Portsmouth, UK www.thechineseroom.co.uk >>> Devin Monnens 10/02/09 12:59 AM >>> Seconded. Why don't we submit the paper we're having published for GDC? Of course, I think the panel is best. The IGDA paper can be part of the panel discussion, but there are other important things we can talk about too like different game preservation groups. -Devin On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 4:06 PM, Andrew Armstrong wrote: > First thing to note is the deadline, a very fast approaching Friday 6 March > 5pm GMT! > > For paper one, well, it's difficult - while there are academics on here, > there are not, I'm led to believe, a lot (or a lot of active ones who read > this list at least). You might need to solicit views or a writer from > outside the SIG when it comes down to it, just to be honest :) (I can't > write it myself, I'm not an academic and it'd take a fair bit of research on > my part to get ideas together for the paper since I don't work in a > University, as such :) ). > > One other quick suggestion, since I'm not good on the paper writing front > (although I'll chip in after discussions have started here :) ) would, in a > pinch, the SIG's white paper on the importance of videogame preservation be > suitable to fill a slot? I'm sure we could get it edited by March. > > Looks good though, if I can help (and as a last resort I can help write a > paper or I can review some), please keep me in mind. > > Also, can you explain to someone who hasn't been what the format of past > events has been? I presume doing an hour-ish presentation on your paper? or > what? discussions? panels? I'm not too straight on that :) it'd be nice to > know before I go to it. > > Andrew > > > Dan Pinchbeck wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> As promised, so more information on the DiGRA conference and the >> proposed panel session. >> This is from DiGRA's site (www.digra.org) regarding the call for papers: >> >> DiGRA 2009 - Breaking New Ground: Innovation in Games, Play, Practice >> and Theory >> >> Brunel University, West London, United Kingdom, Tuesday 1st September -- >> Friday 4th September 2009 >> >> The South of Britain Consortium are pleased to announce the Call for >> Papers for the Digital Games Research Association 2009. DiGRA is an >> organisation that embraces all aspects of game studies, and the >> conference aims to provide a diverse platform for discussion, and a >> lively forum for debate. We therefore welcome papers from any discipline >> focused on any aspect of games, play, game culture and the games >> industry. The conference will be the fourth DiGRA conference, following >> Utrecht, Vancouver and Tokyo, and welcomes contributions from scholars >> working in any area of interest to the association. >> : >> >> DiGRA themselves are a body of academics and researchers ranging right >> across games as a field, with a tendency toward the theoretical, and a >> focus best described as humanities and social sciences, rather than >> technical. The last few conferences have been extremely interesting and >> >> on the proceedings or attempt to present (or at least attend). In terms >> of games and culture, in which sub-field I'd position preservation >> (please correct me if that's horribly out of line), it's basically *the* >> academic conference to be at. >> : >> >> In terms of the panel, this is what is required: >> >> Panel proposals ? 3 ? 4 papers which address a common theme, a common >> research method, a shared conceptual issue etc. >> >> or >> Workshops ? proposals are invited for 2 ? 3 hour workshops that address >> a range of themes relevant to the aims of the association. Workshops >> that are particularly targeted at a wide audience are most welcome. >> >> To submit, abstracts (500-700 words) of each paper are required (full >> papers can also be submitted, but it's a little tight on time for that). >> The workshop is an interesting idea, but I'm not sure we have enough >> time to fill it. What I'd suggest is therefore the following: >> >> Game Preservation Panel Paper One: The state of play in game preservation >> and the role of the >> academic community in this (Please excuse the corny pun, and note this >> really is a suggestion only. >> I think this would be the opportunity for the SIG to plant it's flag in >> the ground and gather support and encourage debate amongst the academic >> community) >> Paper Two: Migration, Emulation and the KEEP project >> (in which we discuss the particular issues with game preservation, the >> methodologies adopted, and why KEEP is a significant project) >> >> That leaves two papers to fill. We can do this in one of two ways: >> >> 1. Come up with a prioritised paper: in other words, a topic the SIG >> agrees must be covered in the panel and that someone agrees to write and >> present >> 2. Place an open call on the SIG and through games network and archiving >> email lists to invite contributions. I prefer this option - it also >> gives us a chance to see what academic work is being done out there and >> possibly draw new researchers to the SIG >> >> The work to be done would therefore be: >> >> a. Write the draft core proposal (I can do this) >> b. Agree who is writing and presenting Paper One (I can't do this, I'll >> cover paper two with colleagues here, and I'm happy to offer to chair >> the session) >> c. Either agree on 1-2 papers and authors and write those abstracts! >> d. Or draft a call (I can do this), release it (I can do this, but >> others will need to spread the word too) and put together a small >> editorial team to read any abstracts received and decide what will be >> included (I can co-ordinate this, but will need 2-3 other names to >> undertake the review process) >> >> >> Think we can do this? Please let me know thoughts, etc. >> >> Dan >> >> PS - GDC: not sure it >> 's going to happen this time around, but we will >> probably disthat it would be a very good thing to have something >> technical, rather >> than just conceptual, on the table before attending... ;) >> >> >> >> >> >> Dan Pinchbeck >> Advanced Games Research Group >> School of Creative Technologies >> University of Portsmouth, UK >> >> www.thechineseroom.co.uk >> >> _______________________________________________ >> game_preservation mailing list >> game_preservation at igda.org >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation >> >> > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > -- The sleep of Reason produces monsters. "Until next time..." Captain Commando From J.P.L.Barwick2 at lboro.ac.uk Tue Feb 10 06:01:12 2009 From: J.P.L.Barwick2 at lboro.ac.uk (J.P.L.Barwick2 at lboro.ac.uk) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 11:01:12 +0000 Subject: [game_preservation] DIGRA 2009 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi all, I would be really keen to present a paper at DIGRA 2009 about my research into perceptions of the cultural significance of games and the implications for preservation. I would be really interested in being part of a panel if a proposal is put forward... Jo Barwick PhD Research Student Department of Information Science Loughborough University From donahrm at gmail.com Tue Feb 10 10:36:06 2009 From: donahrm at gmail.com (Rachel "Sheepy" Donahue) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 10:36:06 -0500 Subject: [game_preservation] DiGRA panel further information In-Reply-To: <4990B702.3020702@aarmstrong.org> References: <4990ADEC020000B500081648@stirling.iso.port.ac.uk> <4990B702.3020702@aarmstrong.org> Message-ID: If the writing of a full paper can wait til June (since the conference is in Sept), I'd be happy to co-author with someone. It's a pretty crazy semester, though, so I'm not much use before then. Cheers, Rach Rachel Donahue Graduate Assistant Maryland Institute for Technology in the Humanities University of Maryland, College Park College Park, MD On Mon, 09 Feb 2009 18:06:42 -0500, Andrew Armstrong wrote: > First thing to note is the deadline, a very fast approaching Friday 6 > March 5pm GMT! > > For paper one, well, it's difficult - while there are academics on here, > there are not, I'm led to believe, a lot (or a lot of active ones who > read this list at least). You might need to solicit views or a writer > from outside the SIG when it comes down to it, just to be honest :) (I > can't write it myself, I'm not an academic and it'd take a fair bit of > research on my part to get ideas together for the paper since I don't > work in a University, as such :) ). > > One other quick suggestion, since I'm not good on the paper writing > front (although I'll chip in after discussions have started here :) ) > would, in a pinch, the SIG's white paper on the importance of videogame > preservation be suitable to fill a slot? I'm sure we could get it edited > by March. > > Looks good though, if I can help (and as a last resort I can help write > a paper or I can review some), please keep me in mind. > > Also, can you explain to someone who hasn't been what the format of past > events has been? I presume doing an hour-ish presentation on your paper? > or what? discussions? panels? I'm not too straight on that :) it'd be > nice to know before I go to it. > > Andrew From andrew at aarmstrong.org Tue Feb 10 16:10:55 2009 From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 21:10:55 +0000 Subject: [game_preservation] KEEP project and DiGRA2009 In-Reply-To: <49911A45.6060208@stanford.edu> References: <498C0EDB020000B50008101F@stirling.iso.port.ac.uk> <498CCC0D.3000806@stanford.edu> <498FF5DC.9090201@digitalgamearchive.org> <499081C5.3010808@aarmstrong.org> <00c601c98afc$2519f6a0$6f4de3e0$@com> <4990ca58.4467260a.67af.ffff92dd@mx.google.com> <49911A45.6060208@stanford.edu> Message-ID: <4991ED5F.7000102@aarmstrong.org> A lunch would be good on any day apart from the one where the IGDA hold their GM, which I missed last year (and as a SIG member who aims to record the IGDA's history at some point, should probably go listen to). Dinner would be good for most evenings, but I'm not sure, I will be meeting some people on some of them - so I can't say "yes" to a date, apart from Friday, which will be the AI dinner which I'll go to. If anyone is in the SF area and can't make the conference, get to the IGDA party as Stuart said :) - although I'll pop to the an AI one in the evening at some point, the IGDA one was fun enough to talk at with my fellow scholars (not as fun for some of the industry people I've been told, but each to their own), so I'd like to go for the time of it (and I might be helping volunteer some of my time towards setting it up :) ). Andrew Henry Lowood wrote: > Hi Devin, > > Dinner will be tough for me, as I already have three scheduled! > However, lunch is free any day except Monday. > > Henry > > Devin Monnens wrote: >> Is it possible to have an IGDA Preservation SIG dinner? I mean, >> different SIGs and chapters do this, why not schedule one the night >> after the roundtable? >> >> BTW, if anyone is going and doesn't have a hotel yet, let me know. I >> know someone who might be able to share a hotel room (if I'm going, >> I'll be staying with him, but if we can split it three ways it's even >> cheaper - only a half mile from the convention center, too). >> >> -Devin >> >> On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 5:29 PM, Stuart Feldhamer >> > wrote: >> >> Or you could do what I did last year, just go to the IGDA party J >> >> >> >> Stuart >> >> >> >> *From:* game_preservation-bounces at igda.org >> >> [mailto:game_preservation-bounces at igda.org >> ] *On Behalf Of *Billy >> Cain >> >> *Sent:* Monday, February 09, 2009 4:20 PM >> *To:* 'IGDA Game Preservation SIG' >> *Subject:* Re: [game_preservation] KEEP project and DiGRA2009 >> >> >> >> Not to say that this is inexpensive, but you don't have to buy a >> big pass to be effective. You can get an expo only pass that will >> let you network just as much as you need to. >> >> >> >> All other charges apply (air, hotel, food, taxi, etc.), but it's >> been my experience that there are people that would split hotel >> rooms to save. I've done that for the past few years. >> >> >> >> So, those are my two money-saving tips. J >> >> >> >> *From:* game_preservation-bounces at igda.org >> >> [mailto:game_preservation-bounces at igda.org >> ] *On Behalf Of >> *Andrew Armstrong >> *Sent:* Monday, February 09, 2009 1:20 PM >> *To:* IGDA Game Preservation SIG >> *Subject:* Re: [game_preservation] KEEP project and DiGRA2009 >> >> >> >> Just to mention, GDC is very developer orientated. It's not >> academic in most respects, and as I've noted, a percentage >> nearing 0 is based on history and preservation (this year it'll >> likely only be our roundtable, give or take maybe an unannounced >> panel or presentation by some older figure in history like last >> year). >> >> There isn't such thing as covering travel costs from anyone I'm >> afraid :( You'll have to get a ticket and cover your own costs, >> sadly. Certainly there is no IGDA money (I'm funding my own >> travel, hotel, and costs over there :) ). Speakers get a pass to >> enter free, but no other costs considered. >> >> There's no absolute* need* to come - it would be nice, but it is >> short notice (the late sign up date is VERY soon!) and may be >> money wasted if you can't get much out of the event. I think >> Henry was more asking if anyone was already planning on going or >> was planning now the project was announced :) >> >> I'd love to see someone there representing it, but balance the >> money it'd cost if you haven't considered it yet. >> >> Andrew >> >> Andreas Lange wrote: >> >> Dear Henry, >> indeed this a good idea. The schedule is a little bit tight but >> if it makes sense it should be considered seriously. How would it >> be possible to make it happen? I guess that KEEP could be >> introduced within the roundtable meeting of the SIC, which you >> chair. Is there a budget from the GDC site for covering e.g. >> travel costs? >> After the kick-off meeting at Thursday/ Friday we will see >> clearer, what travel efforts we must expect during KEEP. Being >> also partly responsible for dissemination of KEEP, I can yield >> your suggestion in the discussion. The Pro seems to me that it is >> good in principle, to inform potential players so early as >> possible, to be able to include their suggestions in the project >> as early as possible. The Con might be, that it is just to early >> for us and it might make more sense to participate at GDC next >> year, when we know more and maybe have a more concrete approach >> to the industry. >> @ Dan: What do you think? >> Andreas >> >> >> Henry Lowood schrieb: >> >> Dan, >> >> do you think anyone from KEEP will be attending GDC this year? >> >> Henry >> >> Dan Pinchbeck wrote: >> >> Hi everyone, >> >> Andreas has already let you all know about the KEEP project - I'm >> part of the UK team working on the project, focusing on metadata >> standards and front-end. >> >> One of the things we've talked about is how to launch the project >> within the games research community and there may be a really >> good opportunity for both this, and highlighting preservation >> work, coming up this year. The DiGRA conference is being hosted >> by Brunel University in London in September, and the call for >> papers, panels, etc is currently up. I think it would be a really >> prescient idea to suggest a preservation panel for the >> conference. We'd look for 3 -4 presentations within this, one of >> which would be KEEP and the state of emulation in relation to >> games. It would be great to also have another of these being >> directly about the work of the SIG and it's key members, leaving >> two papers open for whatever the SIG thinks is most appropriate. >> It would also be a great opportunity to get together those of us >> who can't make GDC and to look at how we can draw in the research >> community as a whole into this part of the field. >> To put it in context, there wasn't a panel like this at the 2007 >> conference, and only a single paper dealing with preservation at >> all at the 2005 conference, so it's long overdue. >> >> Any thoughts would be very welcomed. I'm happy to put together a >> draft proposal and circulate it to the SIG to formalise things. >> The deadline for proposal is 6th March >> >> All the best, >> Dan >> >> Dan Pinchbeck >> Advanced Games Research Group >> School of Creative Technologies >> University of Portsmouth, UK >> >> www.thechineseroom.co.uk >> >> _______________________________________________ >> game_preservation mailing list >> game_preservation at igda.org >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> game_preservation mailing list >> game_preservation at igda.org >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.19/1940 - Release Date: >> 02/08/09 17:57:00 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> game_preservation mailing list >> game_preservation at igda.org >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation >> >> >> >> >> -- >> The sleep of Reason produces monsters. >> >> "Until next time..." >> Captain Commando >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> game_preservation mailing list >> game_preservation at igda.org >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation >> > > -- > Henry Lowood > Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections; > Film & Media Collections > HRG, Green Library > 557 Escondido Mall, Stanford University Libraries > Stanford CA 94305-6004 USA > http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood > lowood at stanford.edu; 650-723-4602 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrew at aarmstrong.org Tue Feb 10 16:20:09 2009 From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 21:20:09 +0000 Subject: [game_preservation] DiGRA panel further information In-Reply-To: <499138BC020000B500081694@stirling.iso.port.ac.uk> References: <499138BC020000B500081694@stirling.iso.port.ac.uk> Message-ID: <4991EF89.3030500@aarmstrong.org> As far as I'm aware, it won't be published anywhere - but there may be plans to, we do want to get it out as far as possible, regarding readership, since it's a much more general paper then a single field or speciality. Henry might have more in mind regarding this, especially if it'd conflict with this conference. I'm up for talking at the conference if I'm the SIG rep/knowledgeable person (on what's going on in general ;) not specifics). By the time the conference comes around I hope to be more an expert on groups, problems, and the SIG will be half way through another year of work by then. Since I'm UK based, unless the conference is thousands of pounds, I can make it down to it (if it is thousands, I'm afraid I don't have any money ;) honest, GDC is making me broke, hehehe). Seems Jo and Rachel might be able to help, so that's 3 of us with time or papers to contribute. I have slightly more access to resources in my new job research wise since I am working in IT at Nottingham University, and can likely brush up on their journals now, so I can help Rachel write a paper as she suggests, if no one else is available - depending on the topic I guess, there are some areas I know nothing about. Andrew Dan Pinchbeck wrote: > Has the white paper been published elsewhere? If not, that sounds like a > good idea. Editing it down shouldn't be too major a task - and I'm not > sure it needs major academic writing, that's not the point. I think the > focus should be more along the lines of "this is what is going on, this > is what needs to be done, this is how academics factor into the > picture". Published papers for the conference have a cap of 6000 words > for the final piece. I'm happy to help out with that if it makes the > cut, but just can't take that on alongside putting together the general > framework and the KEEP paper and the call for other papers... > > Normal format would be about 20 minutes for presentation with 10 minutes > for questions. I'd assume a 90 minute or two hour total slot, depending > on the number of papers in total. > > Dan > > Dan Pinchbeck > Advanced Games Research Group > School of Creative Technologies > University of Portsmouth, UK > > www.thechineseroom.co.uk > From trixter at oldskool.org Wed Feb 11 01:55:52 2009 From: trixter at oldskool.org (Jim Leonard) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 00:55:52 -0600 Subject: [game_preservation] Games as art Message-ID: <49927678.9070303@oldskool.org> In case everyone hasn't seen this already: http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/02/11/0042259 If you read the comments at level 4 and higher, it's turning into a nice discussion of why games are art (and, to bring it on topic, worth preserving and studying). -- Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/ Help our electronic games project: http://www.mobygames.com/ Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/ A child borne of the home computer wars: http://trixter.wordpress.com/ From mike at multimedia.cx Wed Feb 11 02:06:45 2009 From: mike at multimedia.cx (Mike Melanson) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 23:06:45 -0800 Subject: [game_preservation] Games as art In-Reply-To: <49927678.9070303@oldskool.org> References: <49927678.9070303@oldskool.org> Message-ID: <49927905.5050908@multimedia.cx> Jim Leonard wrote: > In case everyone hasn't seen this already: > > http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/02/11/0042259 > > If you read the comments at level 4 and higher, it's turning into a nice > discussion of why games are art (and, to bring it on topic, worth > preserving and studying). Along similar lines, I found this odd item linked from the MobyGames forums yesterday-- if game covers were as classy as book covers: http://kotaku.com/5140732/if-only-game-covers-were-as-classy-as-book-covers http://kotaku.com/5145909/a-second-serving-of-classic-reimagined-game-covers :) -- -Mike Melanson From Dan.Pinchbeck at port.ac.uk Wed Feb 11 04:06:51 2009 From: Dan.Pinchbeck at port.ac.uk (Dan Pinchbeck) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 09:06:51 +0000 Subject: [game_preservation] DIGRA 2009 Message-ID: <4992952B020000B5000819A2@stirling.iso.port.ac.uk> hi Jo, Can you send me an abstract - even if it's just notes at the moment - I'll start fleshing out a panel. Does anyone object if I put out a call on the GamesNetwork research list? Thanks Dan Dan Pinchbeck Advanced Games Research Group School of Creative Technologies University of Portsmouth, UK www.thechineseroom.co.uk >>> 10/02/09 11:02 AM >>> Hi all, I would be really keen to present a paper at DIGRA 2009 about my research into perceptions of the cultural significance of games and the implications for preservation. I would be really interested in being part of a panel if a proposal is put forward... Jo Barwick PhD Research Student Department of Information Science Loughborough University _______________________________________________ game_preservation mailing list game_preservation at igda.org http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation From evilcowclone at gmail.com Wed Feb 11 10:35:32 2009 From: evilcowclone at gmail.com (Devin Monnens) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 08:35:32 -0700 Subject: [game_preservation] Games as art In-Reply-To: <49927905.5050908@multimedia.cx> References: <49927678.9070303@oldskool.org> <49927905.5050908@multimedia.cx> Message-ID: Aye, there's been a lot of good articles on this subject. Here's another of the most recent ones: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3909/persuasive_games_the_.php As for the game covers, novels can have pretty bad covers, too (especially speculative fiction novels). On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 12:06 AM, Mike Melanson wrote: > Jim Leonard wrote: > >> In case everyone hasn't seen this already: >> >> http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/02/11/0042259 >> >> If you read the comments at level 4 and higher, it's turning into a nice >> discussion of why games are art (and, to bring it on topic, worth preserving >> and studying). >> > > Along similar lines, I found this odd item linked from the MobyGames forums > yesterday-- if game covers were as classy as book covers: > > http://kotaku.com/5140732/if-only-game-covers-were-as-classy-as-book-covers > > http://kotaku.com/5145909/a-second-serving-of-classic-reimagined-game-covers > > :) > > -- > -Mike Melanson > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > -- The sleep of Reason produces monsters. "Until next time..." Captain Commando -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From evilcowclone at gmail.com Wed Feb 11 11:30:39 2009 From: evilcowclone at gmail.com (Devin Monnens) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 09:30:39 -0700 Subject: [game_preservation] Games as art In-Reply-To: References: <49927678.9070303@oldskool.org> <49927905.5050908@multimedia.cx> Message-ID: I posted some comments to the article, including some shameless self-advertising for the SIG. It's not so much making something worth playing, but making games that are accessible - and showing art games to your nongamer friends and family. On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 8:35 AM, Devin Monnens wrote: > Aye, there's been a lot of good articles on this subject. Here's another of > the most recent ones: > > http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3909/persuasive_games_the_.php > > As for the game covers, novels can have pretty bad covers, too (especially > speculative fiction novels). > > > On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 12:06 AM, Mike Melanson wrote: > >> Jim Leonard wrote: >> >>> In case everyone hasn't seen this already: >>> >>> http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/02/11/0042259 >>> >>> If you read the comments at level 4 and higher, it's turning into a nice >>> discussion of why games are art (and, to bring it on topic, worth preserving >>> and studying). >>> >> >> Along similar lines, I found this odd item linked from the MobyGames >> forums yesterday-- if game covers were as classy as book covers: >> >> >> http://kotaku.com/5140732/if-only-game-covers-were-as-classy-as-book-covers >> >> http://kotaku.com/5145909/a-second-serving-of-classic-reimagined-game-covers >> >> :) >> >> -- >> -Mike Melanson >> >> _______________________________________________ >> game_preservation mailing list >> game_preservation at igda.org >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation >> > > > > -- > The sleep of Reason produces monsters. > > "Until next time..." > Captain Commando > -- The sleep of Reason produces monsters. "Until next time..." Captain Commando -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From J.P.L.Barwick2 at lboro.ac.uk Thu Feb 12 03:53:51 2009 From: J.P.L.Barwick2 at lboro.ac.uk (J.P.L.Barwick2 at lboro.ac.uk) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 08:53:51 +0000 Subject: [game_preservation] DIGRA 2009 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Dan, I will send you some notes off list by the end of the week. I did a paper in Montreal in October which was more of an introduction to game preservation and consideration of the barriers (both cultural and technical). But I think for DIGRA, it would be more useful to talk specifically about my research. I have been interviewing academics in games research fields and talking to other researchers too about the significance of games and the need for preservation. Jo Barwick PhD research student Loughborough University From Dan.Pinchbeck at port.ac.uk Thu Feb 12 05:35:22 2009 From: Dan.Pinchbeck at port.ac.uk (Dan Pinchbeck) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 10:35:22 +0000 Subject: [game_preservation] DIGRA 2009 Message-ID: <4993FB6B020000B500081D10@stirling.iso.port.ac.uk> That sounds great - I'd love to see the Montreal paper too, if that's OK Thanks dan Dan Pinchbeck Advanced Games Research Group School of Creative Technologies University of Portsmouth, UK www.thechineseroom.co.uk >>> 12/02/09 8:54 AM >>> Hi Dan, I will send you some notes off list by the end of the week. I did a paper in Montreal in October which was more of an introduction to game preservation and consideration of the barriers (both cultural and technical). But I think for DIGRA, it would be more useful to talk specifically about my research. I have been interviewing academics in games research fields and talking to other researchers too about the significance of games and the need for preservation. Jo Barwick PhD research student Loughborough University _______________________________________________ game_preservation mailing list game_preservation at igda.org http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation From aau at alum.mit.edu Fri Feb 13 00:15:51 2009 From: aau at alum.mit.edu (Alan Au) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 00:15:51 -0500 (EST) Subject: [game_preservation] Home of the Underdogs Message-ID: <19090247.3593.1234502151732.JavaMail.help@alum.mit.edu> Hi All - I've mostly been lurking, but I did want to pop my head up to mention that the long-standing abandonware site "Home of the Underdogs" finally succumbed to hosting troubles on Monday (the webhosting company went bankrupt) and is probably gone for good. The preservation community is that much poorer for it. RIP HotU. - Alan From donahrm at gmail.com Fri Feb 13 09:05:24 2009 From: donahrm at gmail.com (Rachel Donahue) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 09:05:24 -0500 Subject: [game_preservation] Home of the Underdogs In-Reply-To: <19090247.3593.1234502151732.JavaMail.help@alum.mit.edu> References: <19090247.3593.1234502151732.JavaMail.help@alum.mit.edu> Message-ID: Wow, just wow. A huge loss, indeed. Does anyone know the maintainers -- no chance it will resurrect with a different host? On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 12:15 AM, Alan Au wrote: > Hi All - > > I've mostly been lurking, but I did want to pop my head up to mention that > the long-standing abandonware site "Home of the Underdogs" finally succumbed > to hosting troubles on Monday (the webhosting company went bankrupt) and is > probably gone for good. The preservation community is that much poorer for > it. > > RIP HotU. > > - Alan > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > > -- Rachel Donahue Graduate Assistant Maryland Institute for Technology in the Humanities University of Maryland, College Park College Park, MD -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lists at softpres.org Fri Feb 13 18:05:42 2009 From: lists at softpres.org (Kieron Wilkinson) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 23:05:42 +0000 Subject: [game_preservation] Preservation of analogue game media In-Reply-To: References: <4C6172A7-4945-4F5E-AE76-CF8AA1E21772@softpres.org> <498DBC31.60402@aarmstrong.org> Message-ID: <65E7BE74-2367-4FA9-ACE3-F920AF417697@softpres.org> Since I have been away for a while, I was trying to get a feel for how things have changed, and I thought this was a good place to start. I guess there doesn't seem to be many people here involved with that side of things, perhaps it is still very much an ad-hoc process. As I said before, there does seem to be a number of common technical problems in preserving game media. Here are the ones I can think of: 1) Devices required to read the disks 2) The different and custom disk formats in use (I don't mean the physical disk format here, but how the software data is structured on the disk) 3) The presence of any disk-based copy protection (the whole purpose of which is to hide itself) 4) Degradation of original disks, leading to corrupted reads 5) Authenticity (ensuring disks are original and unmodified) I'd like to cover these points as two distinct problems... a) Reading the disks in the first place (points 1, 2 and 3). b) Knowing that what you have read is preservable (points 4 and 5, but also involves 2 and 3). I don't want to go into too much detail in one post, so I will leave it at this for now, and follow up this two issues separately later. If anyone has any comments on any of this, please feel free to chime in with your thoughts. Kieron Thanks for citing the SPS website Devin. :) On 7 Feb 2009, at 21:59, Devin Monnens wrote: > Oh, so then I suppose the whole 'look at what your own company is > doing already, isn't it cool!' bit was completely unnecessary :) > > > I personally think standardising the methodology, metadata and > storage of the software is certainly important if there was > worldwide collaboration. > > Well yeah, this is something we totally need to do after the white > paper is published. This is something I bring up from time to time. > If we can't standardize everything, then what's the point in having > collaborative archives? > > > On Sat, Feb 7, 2009 at 9:52 AM, Andrew Armstrong > wrote: > Kerion is actually someone who was a past SIG leader in fact (who > brought this up then, but couldn't work on it due to a bad case of > RSI :( ), and is a member of the Software Preservation Society (and > there is another one of them on here who's not made himself known > I've been told). :) > > Andrew > > Devin Monnens wrote: >> >> Kieron, >> >> The first place to start is the Software Preservation Society (www.softpres.org >> ). They are interested in authenticity of the disks they back up >> and so have developed hardware to detect whether the disk has been >> written to or not. There is a lot of good information on the site, >> and one of the project's members is part of the SIG mailing list. >> >> -Devin >> >> On Sat, Feb 7, 2009 at 3:25 AM, Kieron Wilkinson >> wrote: >> >> Hello all, >> >> I'd quite like to ask a question of those working in libraries and >> archives who are actively preserving games provided on floppy >> disks. Is anyone here doing this? I guess this is going to become >> relevent to the KEEP project (excellent news Andreas!), as it gets >> going. >> >> I'm really just wanting to get some feedback on how this is >> currently being done. Mainly I'm wondering what kind of hardware >> and software you are using to do it? It would be interesting to >> find out if there are any commonly-used approaches. >> >> I don't want to pre-empt the discussion too much, but there does >> seem to be a number of common technical problems in preserving game >> media. Ultimately I'd like to start a discussion on whether there >> could ever be an accepted standard solution that could cover >> everything so nobody needed to worry about it again... (well, I'm >> sure it would certainly save pain for everyone) >> >> Kieron Wilkinson >> >> P.S. I do apologise for not being around for quite a while. I had >> some health issues shortly after taking over from Simon, and only >> sparingly touched a computer for quite some time (I'm fine now). >> >> _______________________________________________ >> game_preservation mailing list >> game_preservation at igda.org >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation >> >> >> >> -- >> The sleep of Reason produces monsters. >> >> "Until next time..." >> Captain Commando >> _______________________________________________ >> game_preservation mailing list >> game_preservation at igda.org >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation >> > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > > > > > -- > The sleep of Reason produces monsters. > > "Until next time..." > Captain Commando > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From evilcowclone at gmail.com Sat Feb 14 13:12:43 2009 From: evilcowclone at gmail.com (Devin Monnens) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 11:12:43 -0700 Subject: [game_preservation] John Watson Message-ID: Just heard about this one, though I think it's an older obituary. He worked on Wing Commander and Ultima VII. The article itself doesn't include a date, so additional research is required: http://wcnews.com/articles/johnwatson.shtml -- The sleep of Reason produces monsters. "Until next time..." Captain Commando -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bcain at criticalmassinteractive.com Sat Feb 14 16:06:47 2009 From: bcain at criticalmassinteractive.com (Billy Cain) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 15:06:47 -0600 Subject: [game_preservation] John Watson In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <008901c98ee8$2646c9a0$72d45ce0$@com> Just write LOAF on the Wing Commander CIC. He has the date. I can dig through old emails to find the date of his passing, but that will take me some time. From: game_preservation-bounces at igda.org [mailto:game_preservation-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Devin Monnens Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 12:13 PM To: IGDA Game Preservation SIG Subject: [game_preservation] John Watson Just heard about this one, though I think it's an older obituary. He worked on Wing Commander and Ultima VII. The article itself doesn't include a date, so additional research is required: http://wcnews.com/articles/johnwatson.shtml -- The sleep of Reason produces monsters. "Until next time..." Captain Commando No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.234 / Virus Database: 270.10.23/1952 - Release Date: 02/13/09 18:29:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From evilcowclone at gmail.com Sat Feb 14 22:31:47 2009 From: evilcowclone at gmail.com (Devin Monnens) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 20:31:47 -0700 Subject: [game_preservation] Digital Archaeology of the Microcomputer Message-ID: This is a short article on archival for the Amstrad. I think some people from the list already know about it, but it's an interesting talk that covers the basics. However, it doesn't bring up copyright issues, just says that 'in an ideal world, this is what you do.' http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/columns/digital_archaeology_of_the_microcomputer_1974-1994 -Devin -- The sleep of Reason produces monsters. "Until next time..." Captain Commando -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From evilcowclone at gmail.com Sat Feb 14 22:54:40 2009 From: evilcowclone at gmail.com (Devin Monnens) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 20:54:40 -0700 Subject: [game_preservation] Preservation Media? Message-ID: Here is a quick article on choosing media to preserve data on. I agree with the article on the +R vs -R format for DVDs, and that gold discs, while supposedly being better, are probably not that good of a buy considering the other disc types are cheaper. However, I'm not quite sure where he's coming from with his defense of Taio Yuden media. Of course, there are some drawbacks to DVD as archival, mainly that you can't store much on them and their read/write speed is rather slow. This and the discs scratch easily. http://adterrasperaspera.com/blog/2006/10/30/how-to-choose-cddvd-archival-media What are you using for archival? I've been sticking to ye olde standard Sony DVD+R, but that's because they go on sale regularly. I don't know if they're any good, but I suspected they were better than most other brands. I've been sticking to Seagate for hard drives after having them recommended to me by a data recovery company. -Devin -- The sleep of Reason produces monsters. "Until next time..." Captain Commando -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lowood at stanford.edu Sun Feb 15 11:36:26 2009 From: lowood at stanford.edu (Henry E Lowood) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 08:36:26 -0800 (PST) Subject: [game_preservation] Home of the Underdogs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1650269209.41831234715786552.JavaMail.root@zm04.stanford.edu> Alan, would it be ok if we add your note to the SIG blog? I've noticed a citation or two out there on the web, tracking back to your "post" to the SIG, but of course there isn't one. Henry Henry Lowood Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections; Film & Media Collections HRG, Green Library 557 Escondido Mall, Stanford University Libraries Stanford CA 94305-6004 USA http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood lowood at stanford.edu; 650-723-4602 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rachel Donahue" To: "IGDA Game Preservation SIG" Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 6:05:24 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [game_preservation] Home of the Underdogs Wow, just wow. A huge loss, indeed. Does anyone know the maintainers -- no chance it will resurrect with a different host? On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 12:15 AM, Alan Au < aau at alum.mit.edu > wrote: Hi All - I've mostly been lurking, but I did want to pop my head up to mention that the long-standing abandonware site "Home of the Underdogs" finally succumbed to hosting troubles on Monday (the webhosting company went bankrupt) and is probably gone for good. ?The preservation community is that much poorer for it. RIP HotU. - Alan _______________________________________________ game_preservation mailing list game_preservation at igda.org http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation -- Rachel Donahue Graduate Assistant Maryland Institute for Technology in the Humanities University of Maryland, College Park College Park, MD _______________________________________________ game_preservation mailing list game_preservation at igda.org http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation From evilcowclone at gmail.com Sun Feb 15 14:01:22 2009 From: evilcowclone at gmail.com (Devin Monnens) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 12:01:22 -0700 Subject: [game_preservation] Home of the Underdogs In-Reply-To: <1650269209.41831234715786552.JavaMail.root@zm04.stanford.edu> References: <1650269209.41831234715786552.JavaMail.root@zm04.stanford.edu> Message-ID: I haven't checked, but I wouldn't be too surprised if somebody decided to do an Underdogs bittorent. That might be the only way all the files would ever get together again. However, I'm not convinced all the stuff they were distributing was really legal to distribute. It's another of those gray areas. Still, sad to see the site's gone though. On Sun, Feb 15, 2009 at 9:36 AM, Henry E Lowood wrote: > Alan, would it be ok if we add your note to the SIG blog? I've noticed a > citation or two out there on the web, tracking back to your "post" to the > SIG, but of course there isn't one. > Henry > > Henry Lowood > Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections; > Film & Media Collections > HRG, Green Library > 557 Escondido Mall, Stanford University Libraries > Stanford CA 94305-6004 USA > http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood > lowood at stanford.edu; 650-723-4602 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rachel Donahue" > To: "IGDA Game Preservation SIG" > Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 6:05:24 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > Subject: Re: [game_preservation] Home of the Underdogs > > > Wow, just wow. A huge loss, indeed. Does anyone know the maintainers -- no > chance it will resurrect with a different host? > > > On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 12:15 AM, Alan Au < aau at alum.mit.edu > wrote: > > > Hi All - > > I've mostly been lurking, but I did want to pop my head up to mention that > the long-standing abandonware site "Home of the Underdogs" finally succumbed > to hosting troubles on Monday (the webhosting company went bankrupt) and is > probably gone for good. The preservation community is that much poorer for > it. > > RIP HotU. > > - Alan > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > > > > > -- > Rachel Donahue > Graduate Assistant > Maryland Institute for Technology in the Humanities > University of Maryland, College Park > College Park, MD > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > -- The sleep of Reason produces monsters. "Until next time..." Captain Commando -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From evilcowclone at gmail.com Sun Feb 15 14:25:39 2009 From: evilcowclone at gmail.com (Devin Monnens) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 12:25:39 -0700 Subject: [game_preservation] The Cover Project Message-ID: I recently had to move my Gameboy games from their original home in a drawer and was trying to find some storage tips (I'm thinking of getting a wide and narrow plastic case) when I discovered this site. They mod DS cases to hold game cartridges of all kinds. It's a bit expensive though as cases are 10 for $7 (if you've got 70 games, that's $50). The interesting thing is, this is a collection of case cover mods. So while it's not preservation, it shows an interesting storage alternative. Unfortunately, it probably encourages trashing GB/GBA boxes. http://www.thecoverproject.net/ -- The sleep of Reason produces monsters. "Until next time..." Captain Commando -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrew at aarmstrong.org Sun Feb 15 15:30:01 2009 From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 20:30:01 +0000 Subject: [game_preservation] Preservation Media? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49987B49.6070208@aarmstrong.org> Anything I upload to the IA I have on an external HDD. I notably need to get this sorted and, like my normal backups, have a dual copy or buy a HDD with in built RAID-1. DVD's basically take too long to use, as you've stated :) as well as consumer grade ones having problems lasting decades of time (although other non-videogame stuff I burn I just make two copies of, and say "cest la vie" if it is unreadable). Andrew Devin Monnens wrote: > Here is a quick article on choosing media to preserve data on. I agree > with the article on the +R vs -R format for DVDs, and that gold discs, > while supposedly being better, are probably not that good of a buy > considering the other disc types are cheaper. However, I'm not quite > sure where he's coming from with his defense of Taio Yuden media. Of > course, there are some drawbacks to DVD as archival, mainly that you > can't store much on them and their read/write speed is rather slow. > This and the discs scratch easily. > > http://adterrasperaspera.com/blog/2006/10/30/how-to-choose-cddvd-archival-media > > What are you using for archival? I've been sticking to ye olde > standard Sony DVD+R, but that's because they go on sale regularly. I > don't know if they're any good, but I suspected they were better than > most other brands. I've been sticking to Seagate for hard drives after > having them recommended to me by a data recovery company. > > -Devin > > -- > The sleep of Reason produces monsters. > > "Until next time..." > Captain Commando > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrew at aarmstrong.org Sun Feb 15 15:34:26 2009 From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 20:34:26 +0000 Subject: [game_preservation] Home of the Underdogs In-Reply-To: References: <1650269209.41831234715786552.JavaMail.root@zm04.stanford.edu> Message-ID: <49987C52.4000708@aarmstrong.org> I'll be trying to catch up with ~2 weeks of obituaries, news and other bits for the blog - my PC died last Monday, and I've been "offline" in regards to sorting these bits of news :) I only put up some randomly when checking my email before it crashed. As for Bittorrents, yeah, someone might. I hadn't visited the site for years, so I can't even remember what was on there. A sad loss, regardless, even with it being legally dubious. Andrew Devin Monnens wrote: > I haven't checked, but I wouldn't be too surprised if somebody decided > to do an Underdogs bittorent. That might be the only way all the files > would ever get together again. However, I'm not convinced all the > stuff they were distributing was really legal to distribute. It's > another of those gray areas. Still, sad to see the site's gone though. > > On Sun, Feb 15, 2009 at 9:36 AM, Henry E Lowood > wrote: > > Alan, would it be ok if we add your note to the SIG blog? I've > noticed a citation or two out there on the web, tracking back to > your "post" to the SIG, but of course there isn't one. > Henry > > Henry Lowood > Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections; > Film & Media Collections > HRG, Green Library > 557 Escondido Mall, Stanford University Libraries > Stanford CA 94305-6004 USA > http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood > lowood at stanford.edu ; 650-723-4602 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rachel Donahue" > > To: "IGDA Game Preservation SIG" > > Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 6:05:24 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada > Pacific > Subject: Re: [game_preservation] Home of the Underdogs > > > Wow, just wow. A huge loss, indeed. Does anyone know the > maintainers -- no chance it will resurrect with a different host? > > > On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 12:15 AM, Alan Au < aau at alum.mit.edu > > wrote: > > > Hi All - > > I've mostly been lurking, but I did want to pop my head up to > mention that the long-standing abandonware site "Home of the > Underdogs" finally succumbed to hosting troubles on Monday (the > webhosting company went bankrupt) and is probably gone for good. > The preservation community is that much poorer for it. > > RIP HotU. > > - Alan > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > > > > > -- > Rachel Donahue > Graduate Assistant > Maryland Institute for Technology in the Humanities > University of Maryland, College Park > College Park, MD > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > > > > > -- > The sleep of Reason produces monsters. > > "Until next time..." > Captain Commando > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stuart.feldhamer at gmail.com Sun Feb 15 20:44:16 2009 From: stuart.feldhamer at gmail.com (Stuart Feldhamer) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 20:44:16 -0500 Subject: [game_preservation] Home of the Underdogs In-Reply-To: References: <1650269209.41831234715786552.JavaMail.root@zm04.stanford.edu> Message-ID: <4998c4f1.c505be0a.4285.ffff803a@mx.google.com> I find that prospect highly unlikely. There was no way to download the files from HOTU en masse, and in fact it was sort of a pain to download anything. Stuart From: game_preservation-bounces at igda.org [mailto:game_preservation-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Devin Monnens Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 2:01 PM To: Henry E Lowood; IGDA Game Preservation SIG Subject: Re: [game_preservation] Home of the Underdogs I haven't checked, but I wouldn't be too surprised if somebody decided to do an Underdogs bittorent. That might be the only way all the files would ever get together again. However, I'm not convinced all the stuff they were distributing was really legal to distribute. It's another of those gray areas. Still, sad to see the site's gone though. On Sun, Feb 15, 2009 at 9:36 AM, Henry E Lowood wrote: Alan, would it be ok if we add your note to the SIG blog? I've noticed a citation or two out there on the web, tracking back to your "post" to the SIG, but of course there isn't one. Henry Henry Lowood Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections; Film & Media Collections HRG, Green Library 557 Escondido Mall, Stanford University Libraries Stanford CA 94305-6004 USA http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood lowood at stanford.edu; 650-723-4602 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rachel Donahue" To: "IGDA Game Preservation SIG" Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 6:05:24 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [game_preservation] Home of the Underdogs Wow, just wow. A huge loss, indeed. Does anyone know the maintainers -- no chance it will resurrect with a different host? On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 12:15 AM, Alan Au < aau at alum.mit.edu > wrote: Hi All - I've mostly been lurking, but I did want to pop my head up to mention that the long-standing abandonware site "Home of the Underdogs" finally succumbed to hosting troubles on Monday (the webhosting company went bankrupt) and is probably gone for good. The preservation community is that much poorer for it. RIP HotU. - Alan _______________________________________________ game_preservation mailing list game_preservation at igda.org http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation -- Rachel Donahue Graduate Assistant Maryland Institute for Technology in the Humanities University of Maryland, College Park College Park, MD _______________________________________________ game_preservation mailing list game_preservation at igda.org http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation _______________________________________________ game_preservation mailing list game_preservation at igda.org http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation -- The sleep of Reason produces monsters. "Until next time..." Captain Commando -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stuart.feldhamer at gmail.com Sun Feb 15 22:26:51 2009 From: stuart.feldhamer at gmail.com (Stuart Feldhamer) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 22:26:51 -0500 Subject: [game_preservation] Home of the Underdogs In-Reply-To: References: <19090247.3593.1234502151732.JavaMail.help@alum.mit.edu> Message-ID: <4998dcfc.06045a0a.26ba.ffff978d@mx.google.com> It has been sort of dying for years now. The site owner was someone from Thailand, a female I believe. I know the name but I can't spell it correctly enough to Google search for her. OK, after lots of searching I finally found it on Wikipedia which is the first place I should have looked: Sarinee Achavanuntakul Anyway, as I said, it was pretty much dying and hadn't been updated for years. So I find it unlikely it will get resurrected in the near future. Stuart From: game_preservation-bounces at igda.org [mailto:game_preservation-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Rachel Donahue Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 9:05 AM To: IGDA Game Preservation SIG Subject: Re: [game_preservation] Home of the Underdogs Wow, just wow. A huge loss, indeed. Does anyone know the maintainers -- no chance it will resurrect with a different host? On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 12:15 AM, Alan Au wrote: Hi All - I've mostly been lurking, but I did want to pop my head up to mention that the long-standing abandonware site "Home of the Underdogs" finally succumbed to hosting troubles on Monday (the webhosting company went bankrupt) and is probably gone for good. The preservation community is that much poorer for it. RIP HotU. - Alan _______________________________________________ game_preservation mailing list game_preservation at igda.org http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation -- Rachel Donahue Graduate Assistant Maryland Institute for Technology in the Humanities University of Maryland, College Park College Park, MD -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrew at aarmstrong.org Mon Feb 16 13:07:02 2009 From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong) Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 18:07:02 +0000 Subject: [game_preservation] Home of the Underdogs In-Reply-To: <4998dcfc.06045a0a.26ba.ffff978d@mx.google.com> References: <19090247.3593.1234502151732.JavaMail.help@alum.mit.edu> <4998dcfc.06045a0a.26ba.ffff978d@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4999AB46.5030903@aarmstrong.org> I'll try and follow up this lead on behalf of the SIG, and because it's possibly dubious. If I can get a copy of the data that the site hosted, it might be useful in some respects (even if it is kept solely offline, and unofficial). Andrew Stuart Feldhamer wrote: > > It has been sort of dying for years now. > > > > The site owner was someone from Thailand, a female I believe. I know > the name but I can't spell it correctly enough to Google search for her... > > > > OK, after lots of searching I finally found it on Wikipedia which is > the first place I should have looked: > > > > Sarinee Achavanuntakul > > > > Anyway, as I said, it was pretty much dying and hadn't been updated > for years. So I find it unlikely it will get resurrected in the near > future. > > > > Stuart > > > > *From:* game_preservation-bounces at igda.org > [mailto:game_preservation-bounces at igda.org] *On Behalf Of *Rachel Donahue > *Sent:* Friday, February 13, 2009 9:05 AM > *To:* IGDA Game Preservation SIG > *Subject:* Re: [game_preservation] Home of the Underdogs > > > > Wow, just wow. A huge loss, indeed. Does anyone know the maintainers > -- no chance it will resurrect with a different host? > > On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 12:15 AM, Alan Au > wrote: > > Hi All - > > I've mostly been lurking, but I did want to pop my head up to mention > that the long-standing abandonware site "Home of the Underdogs" > finally succumbed to hosting troubles on Monday (the webhosting > company went bankrupt) and is probably gone for good. The > preservation community is that much poorer for it. > > RIP HotU. > > - Alan > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > > > > > -- > Rachel Donahue > Graduate Assistant > Maryland Institute for Technology in the Humanities > University of Maryland, College Park > College Park, MD > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stuart.feldhamer at gmail.com Mon Feb 16 14:13:57 2009 From: stuart.feldhamer at gmail.com (Stuart Feldhamer) Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 14:13:57 -0500 Subject: [game_preservation] Project Discussion: Collectors Information In-Reply-To: <49879969.9010707@aarmstrong.org> References: <497E2BE5.3090400@aarmstrong.org> <49879969.9010707@aarmstrong.org> Message-ID: <4999baf6.48c3f10a.30d8.ffffb1d1@mx.google.com> Andrew, I might be willing to help out with this as I am a collector and I also know several other collectors. However, I think it's important to get some of those concerns answered first so that we know what the goals are. Specifically: - Who is the information aimed at? - What information should it be? The answer to the first question should drive the second question. I guess the third question that underlies the other two is: - What is the goal of gathering this information? Any thoughts on these questions from the group? Thanks, Stuart PS - Where is Back-Bytes? I've never heard of it, and a Google search didn't turn up anything. From: game_preservation-bounces at igda.org [mailto:game_preservation-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Armstrong Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 8:10 PM To: IGDA Game Preservation SIG Subject: Re: [game_preservation] Project Discussion: Collectors Information First project bump. I want to see if any new members have any ideas or thoughts on this topic, please read below to see my original post. I am going to do field research into this when I visit Back-Bytes, a retro gaming event in March. While I'm forming my own questions, and will be asking several people about the hobby, and about how it is relevant to historians etc., I'd welcome any input for questions or areas that I should ask about, I am not a collector and have really next to nothing but "common knowledge" of what they do :) Hopefully this will, at the very least, gain some links to communities, forums, websites, magazines and relevant media or coverage of it all. I'll also be reporting on the event for the SIG with photos and notes ;) there should be some interesting stuff from Ocean and Jon Hare, among others, and I'll actually be trying some of the games systems I've never touched before I bet, as well as hopefully grabbing one of the computer museums I've got noted on our contributions page for a chat too. I'll try and get this up before GDC, with possible varying degrees of success. :) Andrew Andrew Armstrong wrote: This is coming on from our previous discussion over spring cleaning the SIG. Collectors Information http://www.igda.org/wiki/Game_Preservation_SIG/Collectors Status: On Hold Currently lead by: No one. Short description: A set of resource pages on the area of videogame collectors. When complete, will hold information on the reasons behind it, the communities that are based on it, and who gets involved in the work. This will be aimed at people interested in the area for whatever reason (such as tracking information not held in public archives or online) rather then for collectors themselves. Concerns raised previously: - What information should it be - Who should be contacted to get the information - Who is the information aimed at This needs someone to run it. Someone who basically can collect the information and update the wiki with it. There are plenty of reasons I can't do it very well, the main one being is I am not a collector and barely venture into the area much. I am willing to do some of the legwork but a collector who knows where to find information, who to contact and interview, what information would be relevant to an archivist, historian or developer, and so on is required. If you want to take lead on this, it shouldn't be much work - I'm looking for more depth then Wikipedia, but less then a book on the subject. Some "rough guide to videogame collectors and their hobby" would suffice. I know some information was already raised, and if I am left with doing this I'll follow some of it up and possibly get someone not on the SIG list to do this project partially (at least providing the information to me). Andrew _____ _______________________________________________ game_preservation mailing list game_preservation at igda.org http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrew at aarmstrong.org Mon Feb 16 14:20:33 2009 From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong) Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 19:20:33 +0000 Subject: [game_preservation] Project Discussion: Collectors Information In-Reply-To: <4999baf6.48c3f10a.30d8.ffffb1d1@mx.google.com> References: <497E2BE5.3090400@aarmstrong.org> <49879969.9010707@aarmstrong.org> <4999baf6.48c3f10a.30d8.ffffb1d1@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4999BC81.8000105@aarmstrong.org> Sorry, it was Back-Bytes. ;) The information should be aimed at helping historians and preservationists. The goal is to facilitate the necessary flow of information if historians can't find it themselves - collectors are knowledgeable historians in their own domains. Knowing what they do, how they do it, and how to contact them/get their help is a good idea. At least that'd be my aim for it. There is no "one stop shop" for communities of collectors, a news driven website, and of course, there is absolutely no group I know of dedicated to facilitating communication between them (at least in an information capacity). These people are some of the most dedicated people to preserving things (even if only for their own collections sometimes), so well worth noting them somewhere, if we don't directly do anything right now :) Thanks Stuart! Andrew Stuart Feldhamer wrote: > > Andrew, > > > > I might be willing to help out with this as I am a collector and I > also know several other collectors. However, I think it's important to > get some of those concerns answered first so that we know what the > goals are. Specifically: > > > > - Who is the information aimed at? > > - What information should it be? > > > > The answer to the first question should drive the second question. I > guess the third question that underlies the other two is: > > > > - What is the goal of gathering this information? > > > > Any thoughts on these questions from the group? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Stuart > > > > PS -- Where is Back-Bytes? I've never heard of it, and a Google search > didn't turn up anything. > > > > *From:* game_preservation-bounces at igda.org > [mailto:game_preservation-bounces at igda.org] *On Behalf Of *Andrew > Armstrong > *Sent:* Monday, February 02, 2009 8:10 PM > *To:* IGDA Game Preservation SIG > *Subject:* Re: [game_preservation] Project Discussion: Collectors > Information > > > > First project bump. I want to see if any new members have any ideas or > thoughts on this topic, please read below to see my original post. > > I am going to do field research into this when I visit Back-Bytes, a > retro gaming event in March. While I'm forming my own questions, and > will be asking several people about the hobby, and about how it is > relevant to historians etc., *I'd welcome any input for questions or > areas that I should ask about*, I am not a collector and have really > next to nothing but "common knowledge" of what they do :) > > Hopefully this will, at the very least, gain some links to > communities, forums, websites, magazines and relevant media or > coverage of it all. > > I'll also be reporting on the event for the SIG with photos and notes > ;) there should be some interesting stuff from Ocean and Jon Hare, > among others, and I'll actually be trying some of the games systems > I've never touched before I bet, as well as hopefully grabbing one of > the computer museums I've got noted on our contributions page for a > chat too. I'll try and get this up before GDC, with possible varying > degrees of success. :) > > Andrew > > Andrew Armstrong wrote: > > This is coming on from our previous discussion over spring cleaning > the SIG. > > *Collectors Information* > http://www.igda.org/wiki/Game_Preservation_SIG/Collectors > Status: /On Hold/ > Currently lead by: /No one. / > Short description: /A set of resource pages on the area of videogame > collectors. When complete, will hold information on the reasons behind > it, the communities that are based on it, and who gets involved in the > work. This will be aimed at people interested in the area for whatever > reason (such as tracking information not held in public archives or > online) rather then for collectors themselves./ > > Concerns raised previously: > - What information should it be > - Who should be contacted to get the information > - Who is the information aimed at > > This needs someone to run it. Someone who basically can collect the > information and update the wiki with it. There are plenty of reasons I > can't do it very well, the main one being is I am not a collector and > barely venture into the area much. I am willing to do some of the > legwork but a collector who knows where to find information, who to > contact and interview, what information would be relevant to an > archivist, historian or developer, and so on is required. > > If you want to take lead on this, it shouldn't be much work - I'm > looking for more depth then Wikipedia, but less then a book on the > subject. Some "rough guide to videogame collectors and their hobby" > would suffice. > > I know some information was already raised, and if I am left with > doing this I'll follow some of it up and possibly get someone not on > the SIG list to do this project partially (at least providing the > information to me). > > Andrew > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stuart.feldhamer at gmail.com Mon Feb 16 14:27:57 2009 From: stuart.feldhamer at gmail.com (Stuart Feldhamer) Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 14:27:57 -0500 Subject: [game_preservation] Project Discussion: Collectors Information In-Reply-To: <4999BC81.8000105@aarmstrong.org> References: <497E2BE5.3090400@aarmstrong.org> <49879969.9010707@aarmstrong.org> <4999baf6.48c3f10a.30d8.ffffb1d1@mx.google.com> <4999BC81.8000105@aarmstrong.org> Message-ID: <4999be3e.01025a0a.6ec3.3d75@mx.google.com> Back-Bytes - that's what you said before, isn't it? Stuart From: game_preservation-bounces at igda.org [mailto:game_preservation-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Armstrong Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 2:21 PM To: IGDA Game Preservation SIG Subject: Re: [game_preservation] Project Discussion: Collectors Information Sorry, it was Back-Bytes. ;) The information should be aimed at helping historians and preservationists. The goal is to facilitate the necessary flow of information if historians can't find it themselves - collectors are knowledgeable historians in their own domains. Knowing what they do, how they do it, and how to contact them/get their help is a good idea. At least that'd be my aim for it. There is no "one stop shop" for communities of collectors, a news driven website, and of course, there is absolutely no group I know of dedicated to facilitating communication between them (at least in an information capacity). These people are some of the most dedicated people to preserving things (even if only for their own collections sometimes), so well worth noting them somewhere, if we don't directly do anything right now :) Thanks Stuart! Andrew Stuart Feldhamer wrote: Andrew, I might be willing to help out with this as I am a collector and I also know several other collectors. However, I think it's important to get some of those concerns answered first so that we know what the goals are. Specifically: - Who is the information aimed at? - What information should it be? The answer to the first question should drive the second question. I guess the third question that underlies the other two is: - What is the goal of gathering this information? Any thoughts on these questions from the group? Thanks, Stuart PS - Where is Back-Bytes? I've never heard of it, and a Google search didn't turn up anything. From: game_preservation-bounces at igda.org [mailto:game_preservation-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Armstrong Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 8:10 PM To: IGDA Game Preservation SIG Subject: Re: [game_preservation] Project Discussion: Collectors Information First project bump. I want to see if any new members have any ideas or thoughts on this topic, please read below to see my original post. I am going to do field research into this when I visit Back-Bytes, a retro gaming event in March. While I'm forming my own questions, and will be asking several people about the hobby, and about how it is relevant to historians etc., I'd welcome any input for questions or areas that I should ask about, I am not a collector and have really next to nothing but "common knowledge" of what they do :) Hopefully this will, at the very least, gain some links to communities, forums, websites, magazines and relevant media or coverage of it all. I'll also be reporting on the event for the SIG with photos and notes ;) there should be some interesting stuff from Ocean and Jon Hare, among others, and I'll actually be trying some of the games systems I've never touched before I bet, as well as hopefully grabbing one of the computer museums I've got noted on our contributions page for a chat too. I'll try and get this up before GDC, with possible varying degrees of success. :) Andrew Andrew Armstrong wrote: This is coming on from our previous discussion over spring cleaning the SIG. Collectors Information http://www.igda.org/wiki/Game_Preservation_SIG/Collectors Status: On Hold Currently lead by: No one. Short description: A set of resource pages on the area of videogame collectors. When complete, will hold information on the reasons behind it, the communities that are based on it, and who gets involved in the work. This will be aimed at people interested in the area for whatever reason (such as tracking information not held in public archives or online) rather then for collectors themselves. Concerns raised previously: - What information should it be - Who should be contacted to get the information - Who is the information aimed at This needs someone to run it. Someone who basically can collect the information and update the wiki with it. There are plenty of reasons I can't do it very well, the main one being is I am not a collector and barely venture into the area much. I am willing to do some of the legwork but a collector who knows where to find information, who to contact and interview, what information would be relevant to an archivist, historian or developer, and so on is required. If you want to take lead on this, it shouldn't be much work - I'm looking for more depth then Wikipedia, but less then a book on the subject. Some "rough guide to videogame collectors and their hobby" would suffice. I know some information was already raised, and if I am left with doing this I'll follow some of it up and possibly get someone not on the SIG list to do this project partially (at least providing the information to me). Andrew _____ _______________________________________________ game_preservation mailing list game_preservation at igda.org http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation _____ _______________________________________________ game_preservation mailing list game_preservation at igda.org http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrew at aarmstrong.org Mon Feb 16 14:30:30 2009 From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong) Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 19:30:30 +0000 Subject: [game_preservation] Project Discussion: Collectors Information In-Reply-To: <4999be3e.01025a0a.6ec3.3d75@mx.google.com> References: <497E2BE5.3090400@aarmstrong.org> <49879969.9010707@aarmstrong.org> <4999baf6.48c3f10a.30d8.ffffb1d1@mx.google.com> <4999BC81.8000105@aarmstrong.org> <4999be3e.01025a0a.6ec3.3d75@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4999BED6.2010701@aarmstrong.org> Urg, teach me not to read. Byte-Back, here, have a URL: http://byte-back.info/index.html Andrew Stuart Feldhamer wrote: > > Back-Bytes -- that's what you said before, isn't it? > > > > Stuart > > > > *From:* game_preservation-bounces at igda.org > [mailto:game_preservation-bounces at igda.org] *On Behalf Of *Andrew > Armstrong > *Sent:* Monday, February 16, 2009 2:21 PM > *To:* IGDA Game Preservation SIG > *Subject:* Re: [game_preservation] Project Discussion: Collectors > Information > > > > Sorry, it was Back-Bytes. ;) > > The information should be aimed at helping historians and > preservationists. The goal is to facilitate the necessary flow of > information if historians can't find it themselves - collectors are > knowledgeable historians in their own domains. Knowing what they do, > how they do it, and how to contact them/get their help is a good idea. > > At least that'd be my aim for it. There is no "one stop shop" for > communities of collectors, a news driven website, and of course, there > is absolutely no group I know of dedicated to facilitating > communication between them (at least in an information capacity). > These people are some of the most dedicated people to preserving > things (even if only for their own collections sometimes), so well > worth noting them somewhere, if we don't directly do anything right now :) > > Thanks Stuart! > > Andrew > > Stuart Feldhamer wrote: > > Andrew, > > > > I might be willing to help out with this as I am a collector and I > also know several other collectors. However, I think it's important to > get some of those concerns answered first so that we know what the > goals are. Specifically: > > > > - Who is the information aimed at? > > - What information should it be? > > > > The answer to the first question should drive the second question. I > guess the third question that underlies the other two is: > > > > - What is the goal of gathering this information? > > > > Any thoughts on these questions from the group? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Stuart > > > > PS -- Where is Back-Bytes? I've never heard of it, and a Google search > didn't turn up anything. > > > > > *From:* game_preservation-bounces at igda.org > > [mailto:game_preservation-bounces at igda.org] *On Behalf Of *Andrew > Armstrong > *Sent:* Monday, February 02, 2009 8:10 PM > *To:* IGDA Game Preservation SIG > *Subject:* Re: [game_preservation] Project Discussion: Collectors > Information > > > > First project bump. I want to see if any new members have any ideas or > thoughts on this topic, please read below to see my original post. > > I am going to do field research into this when I visit Back-Bytes, a > retro gaming event in March. While I'm forming my own questions, and > will be asking several people about the hobby, and about how it is > relevant to historians etc., *I'd welcome any input for questions or > areas that I should ask about*, I am not a collector and have really > next to nothing but "common knowledge" of what they do :) > > Hopefully this will, at the very least, gain some links to > communities, forums, websites, magazines and relevant media or > coverage of it all. > > I'll also be reporting on the event for the SIG with photos and notes > ;) there should be some interesting stuff from Ocean and Jon Hare, > among others, and I'll actually be trying some of the games systems > I've never touched before I bet, as well as hopefully grabbing one of > the computer museums I've got noted on our contributions page for a > chat too. I'll try and get this up before GDC, with possible varying > degrees of success. :) > > Andrew > > Andrew Armstrong wrote: > > This is coming on from our previous discussion over spring cleaning > the SIG. > > *Collectors Information* > http://www.igda.org/wiki/Game_Preservation_SIG/Collectors > Status: /On Hold/ > Currently lead by: /No one. / > Short description: /A set of resource pages on the area of videogame > collectors. When complete, will hold information on the reasons behind > it, the communities that are based on it, and who gets involved in the > work. This will be aimed at people interested in the area for whatever > reason (such as tracking information not held in public archives or > online) rather then for collectors themselves./ > > Concerns raised previously: > - What information should it be > - Who should be contacted to get the information > - Who is the information aimed at > > This needs someone to run it. Someone who basically can collect the > information and update the wiki with it. There are plenty of reasons I > can't do it very well, the main one being is I am not a collector and > barely venture into the area much. I am willing to do some of the > legwork but a collector who knows where to find information, who to > contact and interview, what information would be relevant to an > archivist, historian or developer, and so on is required. > > If you want to take lead on this, it shouldn't be much work - I'm > looking for more depth then Wikipedia, but less then a book on the > subject. Some "rough guide to videogame collectors and their hobby" > would suffice. > > I know some information was already raised, and if I am left with > doing this I'll follow some of it up and possibly get someone not on > the SIG list to do this project partially (at least providing the > information to me). > > Andrew > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aau at alum.mit.edu Mon Feb 16 14:43:38 2009 From: aau at alum.mit.edu (Alan Au) Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 14:43:38 -0500 (EST) Subject: [game_preservation] =?utf-8?q?Home_of_the_Underdogs=E2=80=8F?= Message-ID: <22154486.4710.1234813418916.JavaMail.help@alum.mit.edu> Henry Lowood wrote: > Alan, would it be ok if we add your note to the SIG blog? > I've noticed a citation or two out there on the web, tracking > back to your "post" to the SIG, but of course there isn't > one. > Henry Of course. By the way, Sarinee has moved on to doing social advocacy work in Thailand. I don't know her personally, but I've spoken with some of the HotU community members. They never really got organized enough to set up long-term hosting/backup, partly owing to Sarinee's reduced involvement with the site. Troy Goodfellow has posted some more info on his blog: http://flashofsteel.com/index.php/2009/02/13/rip-hotu/ - Alan From andrew at aarmstrong.org Mon Feb 16 14:56:21 2009 From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong) Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 19:56:21 +0000 Subject: [game_preservation] =?utf-8?q?Home_of_the_Underdogs=E2=80=8F?= In-Reply-To: <22154486.4710.1234813418916.JavaMail.help@alum.mit.edu> References: <22154486.4710.1234813418916.JavaMail.help@alum.mit.edu> Message-ID: <4999C4E5.5000005@aarmstrong.org> Thanks for that link. I've done a news post on it now: http://www.igda.org/preservation/archives/2009/02/home_of_the_und.html Andrew Alan Au wrote: > Henry Lowood wrote: > >> Alan, would it be ok if we add your note to the SIG blog? >> I've noticed a citation or two out there on the web, tracking >> back to your "post" to the SIG, but of course there isn't >> one. >> Henry >> > > Of course. > > By the way, Sarinee has moved on to doing social advocacy work in Thailand. I don't know her personally, but I've spoken with some of the HotU community members. They never really got organized enough to set up long-term hosting/backup, partly owing to Sarinee's reduced involvement with the site. > > Troy Goodfellow has posted some more info on his blog: > http://flashofsteel.com/index.php/2009/02/13/rip-hotu/ > > - Alan > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrew at aarmstrong.org Mon Feb 16 17:07:14 2009 From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong) Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 22:07:14 +0000 Subject: [game_preservation] Masses of Everquest 2 data passed along to researchers Message-ID: <4999E392.6060701@aarmstrong.org> Interesting stuff: http://arstechnica.com/science/news/2009/02/aaas-60tb-of-behavioral-data-the-everquest-2-server-logs.ars (from /. - http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/02/16/0621242 ) 60TB of it. I wonder Henry if your project ask around like that and get that kind of thing in return :D Andrew From lowood at stanford.edu Mon Feb 16 17:28:43 2009 From: lowood at stanford.edu (Henry Lowood) Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 14:28:43 -0800 Subject: [game_preservation] =?utf-8?q?Home_of_the_Underdogs=E2=80=8F?= In-Reply-To: <22154486.4710.1234813418916.JavaMail.help@alum.mit.edu> References: <22154486.4710.1234813418916.JavaMail.help@alum.mit.edu> Message-ID: <4999E89B.9040208@stanford.edu> Hi Alan, do you think there is any chance of getting the data/metadata from the site? The site itself is available via archive.org, last crawled 12 Feb. 08, though the top post is dated 13 Jan. 2006. (I think that's as it should be, since the site hasn't been active for a while.) I think if we had the data, with permission to use it, we might be able to construct a database that people could use. Would you know whom to contact for permission to do that? Henry Alan Au wrote: > Henry Lowood wrote: > >> Alan, would it be ok if we add your note to the SIG blog? >> I've noticed a citation or two out there on the web, tracking >> back to your "post" to the SIG, but of course there isn't >> one. >> Henry >> > > Of course. > > By the way, Sarinee has moved on to doing social advocacy work in Thailand. I don't know her personally, but I've spoken with some of the HotU community members. They never really got organized enough to set up long-term hosting/backup, partly owing to Sarinee's reduced involvement with the site. > > Troy Goodfellow has posted some more info on his blog: > http://flashofsteel.com/index.php/2009/02/13/rip-hotu/ > > - Alan > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > -- Henry Lowood Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections; Film & Media Collections HRG, Green Library 557 Escondido Mall, Stanford University Libraries Stanford CA 94305-6004 USA http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood lowood at stanford.edu; 650-723-4602 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrew at aarmstrong.org Mon Feb 16 17:32:56 2009 From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong) Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 22:32:56 +0000 Subject: [game_preservation] =?utf-8?q?Home_of_the_Underdogs=E2=80=8F?= In-Reply-To: <4999E89B.9040208@stanford.edu> References: <22154486.4710.1234813418916.JavaMail.help@alum.mit.edu> <4999E89B.9040208@stanford.edu> Message-ID: <4999E998.3080303@aarmstrong.org> Just to let the list know, as I said I would have, I have sent an email to the known lead, but it's likely she won't be able to help from the sounds of it. I think the metadata, community data and news is the most important part to preserve, rightly so. Anything else is a bonus, be it the freeware or abandonware software or patches/screenshots. Perhaps we should should set up some kind of program to deal with having such data from websites (which go down or drastically change with increasing frequency) sent to archives if archives can't deal with it right now (for whatever reason, large uploads of data seem out of the question for some places, and of course sending physical hard drives or DVD's around the world are likely to break or cost a lot to do). Andrew Henry Lowood wrote: > Hi Alan, > > do you think there is any chance of getting the data/metadata from the > site? The site itself is available via archive.org, last crawled 12 > Feb. 08, though the top post is dated 13 Jan. 2006. (I think that's > as it should be, since the site hasn't been active for a while.) I > think if we had the data, with permission to use it, we might be able > to construct a database that people could use. Would you know whom > to contact for permission to do that? > > Henry > > Alan Au wrote: >> Henry Lowood wrote: >> >>> Alan, would it be ok if we add your note to the SIG blog? >>> I've noticed a citation or two out there on the web, tracking >>> back to your "post" to the SIG, but of course there isn't >>> one. >>> Henry >>> >> >> Of course. >> >> By the way, Sarinee has moved on to doing social advocacy work in Thailand. I don't know her personally, but I've spoken with some of the HotU community members. They never really got organized enough to set up long-term hosting/backup, partly owing to Sarinee's reduced involvement with the site. >> >> Troy Goodfellow has posted some more info on his blog: >> http://flashofsteel.com/index.php/2009/02/13/rip-hotu/ >> >> - Alan >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> game_preservation mailing list >> game_preservation at igda.org >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation >> > > -- > Henry Lowood > Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections; > Film & Media Collections > HRG, Green Library > 557 Escondido Mall, Stanford University Libraries > Stanford CA 94305-6004 USA > http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood > lowood at stanford.edu; 650-723-4602 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Dan.Pinchbeck at port.ac.uk Mon Feb 16 18:41:22 2009 From: Dan.Pinchbeck at port.ac.uk (Dan Pinchbeck) Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 23:41:22 +0000 Subject: [game_preservation] =?utf-8?q?Home_of_the_Underdogs=E2=80=8F?= Message-ID: <4999F9A2020000B50008244A@stirling.iso.port.ac.uk> We may well be able to host if we can get hold of it. I'll check that out with my boss, but it's close enough to the work we are doing to make a case for it, if we can get an idea of the scale of hosting needed (and given we are an HE institution, there would be hoops to jump through to keep our legal people happy that everything there was legit) Dan Dan Pinchbeck Advanced Games Research Group School of Creative Technologies University of Portsmouth, UK www.thechineseroom.co.uk >>> Andrew Armstrong 16/02/09 10:33 PM >>> Just to let the list know, as I said I would have, I have sent an email to the known lead, but it's likely she won't be able to help from the sounds of it. I think the metadata, community data and news is the most important part to preserve, rightly so. Anything else is a bonus, be it the freeware or abandonware software or patches/screenshots. Perhaps we should should set up some kind of program to deal with having such data from websites (which go down or drastically change with increasing frequency) sent to archives if archives can't deal with it right now (for whatever reason, large uploads of data seem out of the question for some places, and of course sending physical hard drives or DVD's around the world are likely to break or cost a lot to do). Andrew Henry Lowood wrote: > Hi Alan, > > do you think there is any chance of getting the data/metadata from the > site? The site itself is available via archive.org, last crawled 12 > Feb. 08, though the top post is dated 13 Jan. 2006. (I think that's > as it should be, since the site hasn't been active for a while.) I > think if we had the data, with permission to use it, we might be able > to construct a database that people could use. Would you know whom > to contact for permission to do that? > > Henry > > Alan Au wrote: >> Henry Lowood wrote: >> >>> Alan, would it be ok if we add your note to the SIG blog? >>> I've noticed a citation or two out there on the web, tracking >>> back to your "post" to the SIG, but of course there isn't >>> one. >>> Henry >>> >> >> Of course. >> >> By the way, Sarinee has moved on to doing social advocacy work in Thailand. I don't know her personally, but I've spoken with some of the HotU community members. They never really got organized enough to set up long-term hosting/backup, partly owing to Sarinee's reduced involvement with the site. >> >> Troy Goodfellow has posted some more info on his blog: >> http://flashofsteel.com/index.php/2009/02/13/rip-hotu/ >> >> - Alan >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> game_preservation mailing list >> game_preservation at igda.org >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation >> > > -- > Henry Lowood > Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections; > Film & Media Collections > HRG, Green Library > 557 Escondido Mall, Stanford University Libraries > Stanford CA 94305-6004 USA > http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood > lowood at stanford.edu; 650-723-4602 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > From evilcowclone at gmail.com Mon Feb 16 20:25:58 2009 From: evilcowclone at gmail.com (Devin Monnens) Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 18:25:58 -0700 Subject: [game_preservation] =?windows-1256?q?Home_of_the_Underdogs=FE?= In-Reply-To: <4999F9A2020000B50008244A@stirling.iso.port.ac.uk> References: <4999F9A2020000B50008244A@stirling.iso.port.ac.uk> Message-ID: Well, if the entirety of the archive isn't legal, certainly some portion of it is. It would be interesting to see what aspects of the archive was, especially since we have the metadata. On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 4:41 PM, Dan Pinchbeck wrote: > We may well be able to host if we can get hold of it. I'll check that out > with my boss, but it's close enough to the work we are doing to make a case > for it, if we can get an idea of the scale of hosting needed (and given we > are an HE institution, there would be hoops to jump through to keep our > legal people happy that everything there was legit) > > Dan > > Dan Pinchbeck > Advanced Games Research Group > School of Creative Technologies > University of Portsmouth, UK > > www.thechineseroom.co.uk > > >>> Andrew Armstrong 16/02/09 10:33 PM >>> > Just to let the list know, as I said I would have, I have sent an email > to the known lead, but it's likely she won't be able to help from the > sounds of it. > > I think the metadata, community data and news is the most important part > to preserve, rightly so. Anything else is a bonus, be it the freeware or > abandonware software or patches/screenshots. Perhaps we should should > set up some kind of program to deal with having such data from websites > (which go down or drastically change with increasing frequency) sent to > archives if archives can't deal with it right now (for whatever reason, > large uploads of data seem out of the question for some places, and of > course sending physical hard drives or DVD's around the world are likely > to break or cost a lot to do). > > Andrew > > Henry Lowood wrote: > > Hi Alan, > > > > do you think there is any chance of getting the data/metadata from the > > site? The site itself is available via archive.org, last crawled 12 > > Feb. 08, though the top post is dated 13 Jan. 2006. (I think that's > > as it should be, since the site hasn't been active for a while.) I > > think if we had the data, with permission to use it, we might be able > > to construct a database that people could use. Would you know whom > > to contact for permission to do that? > > > > Henry > > > > Alan Au wrote: > >> Henry Lowood wrote: > >> > >>> Alan, would it be ok if we add your note to the SIG blog? > >>> I've noticed a citation or two out there on the web, tracking > >>> back to your "post" to the SIG, but of course there isn't > >>> one. > >>> Henry > >>> > >> > >> Of course. > >> > >> By the way, Sarinee has moved on to doing social advocacy work in > Thailand. I don't know her personally, but I've spoken with some of the > HotU community members. They never really got organized enough to set up > long-term hosting/backup, partly owing to Sarinee's reduced involvement with > the site. > >> > >> Troy Goodfellow has posted some more info on his blog: > >> http://flashofsteel.com/index.php/2009/02/13/rip-hotu/ > >> > >> - Alan > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> game_preservation mailing list > >> game_preservation at igda.org > >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > >> > > > > -- > > Henry Lowood > > Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections; > > Film & Media Collections > > HRG, Green Library > > 557 Escondido Mall, Stanford University Libraries > > Stanford CA 94305-6004 USA > > http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood > > lowood at stanford.edu; 650-723-4602 > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > game_preservation mailing list > > game_preservation at igda.org > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > > > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > -- The sleep of Reason produces monsters. "Until next time..." Captain Commando -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From trixter at oldskool.org Tue Feb 17 00:19:56 2009 From: trixter at oldskool.org (Jim Leonard) Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 23:19:56 -0600 Subject: [game_preservation] Home of the Underdogs In-Reply-To: References: <19090247.3593.1234502151732.JavaMail.help@alum.mit.edu> Message-ID: <499A48FC.5040309@oldskool.org> Rachel Donahue wrote: > Wow, just wow. A huge loss, indeed. Does anyone know the maintainers -- > no chance it will resurrect with a different host? I've known Sarinee since HOTU was formed. She had moved on in 2006, and didn't maintain the site any longer. I find it highly unlikely that she will resurrect it. The files she had continue to float around in the community, but the editorial content, including comparisons to like games, was limited to the site. Losing that is indeed a shame. -- Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/ Help our electronic games project: http://www.mobygames.com/ Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/ A child borne of the home computer wars: http://trixter.wordpress.com/ From donahrm at gmail.com Tue Feb 17 10:38:42 2009 From: donahrm at gmail.com (Rachel "Sheepy" Donahue) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 10:38:42 -0500 Subject: [game_preservation] Preservation Media? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The difference between gold DVDs and DVDs which use other reflective layers (aluminum, silver, what have you) is that the less expensive materials are more prone to oxidation and decay over time, whereas gold doesn't rust. So yes, gold is more expensive.. but it's also shinier and will last longer in the long run, even if the protective layer is compromised. So they might be a bad buy in the short term.. but probably a good buy in the longer term, because they (might) require less frequent refreshing to keep your data safe. On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 22:54:40 -0500, Devin Monnens wrote: > Here is a quick article on choosing media to preserve data on. I agree > with > the article on the +R vs -R format for DVDs, and that gold discs, while > supposedly being better, are probably not that good of a buy considering > the > other disc types are cheaper. However, I'm not quite sure where he's > coming > from with his defense of Taio Yuden media. Of course, there are some > drawbacks to DVD as archival, mainly that you can't store much on them > and > their read/write speed is rather slow. This and the discs scratch easily. > > http://adterrasperaspera.com/blog/2006/10/30/how-to-choose-cddvd-archival-media > > What are you using for archival? I've been sticking to ye olde standard > Sony > DVD+R, but that's because they go on sale regularly. I don't know if > they're > any good, but I suspected they were better than most other brands. I've > been > sticking to Seagate for hard drives after having them recommended to me > by a > data recovery company. > > -Devin > -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ From trixter at oldskool.org Tue Feb 17 11:30:26 2009 From: trixter at oldskool.org (Jim Leonard) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 10:30:26 -0600 Subject: [game_preservation] =?windows-1252?q?Home_of_the_Underdogs=3F?= In-Reply-To: <4999F9A2020000B50008244A@stirling.iso.port.ac.uk> References: <4999F9A2020000B50008244A@stirling.iso.port.ac.uk> Message-ID: <499AE622.7060303@oldskool.org> Dan Pinchbeck wrote: > We may well be able to host if we can get hold of it. I'll check that out with my boss, but it's close enough to the work we are doing to make a case for it, if we can get an idea of the scale of hosting needed (and given we are an HE institution, there would be hoops to jump through to keep our legal people happy that everything there was legit) If you refuse all of the downloadable files, the entirety of the site is legal. The editorial content and human-picked "games like this one" is the real content to save. The files themselves are floating around in various communities -- that's not a problem, if access to the files is needed. Not legal, but available nonetheless. HOTU hosted other sites, including The Mac Garden, which was like HOTU but for classic Mac games. Hopefully those can be saved as well, since there has been very little effort to preserve classic mac games and mac game information. -- Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/ Help our electronic games project: http://www.mobygames.com/ Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/ A child borne of the home computer wars: http://trixter.wordpress.com/ From lowood at stanford.edu Tue Feb 17 12:26:00 2009 From: lowood at stanford.edu (Henry Lowood) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 09:26:00 -0800 Subject: [game_preservation] Home of the Underdogs? In-Reply-To: <499AE622.7060303@oldskool.org> References: <4999F9A2020000B50008244A@stirling.iso.port.ac.uk> <499AE622.7060303@oldskool.org> Message-ID: <499AF328.5070205@stanford.edu> With regard to the data/metadata of the site itself, it probably would be best to make sure that a handful of institutions have copies, assuming the owners will be willing and able to provide the data. NB. In the case of Stanford and I'm sure the other institutions, there will need to be a legal instrument that governs the transfer. That's the sort of thing that can be dealt with when we have contact information and know that there is a willingness to do this. Henry Jim Leonard wrote: > Dan Pinchbeck wrote: >> We may well be able to host if we can get hold of it. I'll check that >> out with my boss, but it's close enough to the work we are doing to >> make a case for it, if we can get an idea of the scale of hosting >> needed (and given we are an HE institution, there would be hoops to >> jump through to keep our legal people happy that everything there was >> legit) > > If you refuse all of the downloadable files, the entirety of the site > is legal. The editorial content and human-picked "games like this > one" is the real content to save. > > The files themselves are floating around in various communities -- > that's not a problem, if access to the files is needed. Not legal, > but available nonetheless. > > HOTU hosted other sites, including The Mac Garden, which was like HOTU > but for classic Mac games. Hopefully those can be saved as well, > since there has been very little effort to preserve classic mac games > and mac game information. -- Henry Lowood, Ph.D. Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections; Film & Media Collections HRG, Green Library, 557 Escondido Mall Stanford University Libraries Stanford CA 94305-6004 650-723-4602; lowood at stanford.edu; http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at artfulgamer.com Tue Feb 17 12:42:28 2009 From: chris at artfulgamer.com (Chris Lepine) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 10:42:28 -0700 Subject: [game_preservation] Home of the Underdogs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <94DA2F41-BBB2-4418-951E-B6D4CCFE0FEE@artfulgamer.com> If the legality of file storage is a concern, I have a private host with 600gb of storage available that I would be happy to offer as (at least) a temporary or long-term storage solution. Access to the storage would be easy to manage, and if the metadata became available it would also work as a web host for it. I can only *hope* that Sarinee kept a backup of the site/mysql databases. - Chris --- The Artful Gamer: In Search of the Lyrical and Poetic in Video Games http://www.artfulgamer.com > We may well be able to host if we can get hold of it. I'll check > that out with my boss, but it's close enough to the work we are > doing to make a case for it, if we can get an idea of the scale of > hosting needed (and given we are an HE institution, there would be > hoops to jump through to keep our legal people happy that > everything there was legit) > > Dan > > Dan Pinchbeck > Advanced Games Research Group > School of Creative Technologies > University of Portsmouth, UK > > www.thechineseroom.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From evilcowclone at gmail.com Tue Feb 17 13:15:58 2009 From: evilcowclone at gmail.com (Devin Monnens) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 11:15:58 -0700 Subject: [game_preservation] Masses of Everquest 2 data passed along to researchers In-Reply-To: <4999E392.6060701@aarmstrong.org> References: <4999E392.6060701@aarmstrong.org> Message-ID: 60TB is a LOT of data. I'm interested in how SOE stored all of that and the logistics of the transfer. Would magnetic tape have been the easiest? Otherwise you're looking at 60 1TB drives. However, in 10 years, there will probably be technology that allows us to store that much on a single device. Devin On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 3:07 PM, Andrew Armstrong wrote: > Interesting stuff: > http://arstechnica.com/science/news/2009/02/aaas-60tb-of-behavioral-data-the-everquest-2-server-logs.ars > > (from /. - http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/02/16/0621242 ) > > 60TB of it. I wonder Henry if your project ask around like that and get > that kind of thing in return :D > > Andrew > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > -- The sleep of Reason produces monsters. "Until next time..." Captain Commando -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lowood at stanford.edu Tue Feb 17 13:25:57 2009 From: lowood at stanford.edu (Henry Lowood) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 10:25:57 -0800 Subject: [game_preservation] Home of the Underdogs In-Reply-To: <94DA2F41-BBB2-4418-951E-B6D4CCFE0FEE@artfulgamer.com> References: <94DA2F41-BBB2-4418-951E-B6D4CCFE0FEE@artfulgamer.com> Message-ID: <499B0135.7030809@stanford.edu> Chris, two separate issues here: 1. Whether some of the data is held in violation of any laws, such as DMCA in the US. This would already be the case for the Underdogs site. Issues are not necessarily clear and well-defined, esp. not the liability of anyone taking the data from the present owners of the site. I think it's virtually certain that the present owners will not indemnify anyone taking the data, but on the other hand, the issues were already there. 2. Totally separate from that, any entity taking on the task of hosting or archiving the data will want to document the transfer of ownership and the terms of the transfer. This is an issue for institutions, for sure. Neither of these is a barrier to transfer to an institution. They are issues that need to be sorted out. In fact, the transfer deed can be handled in a matter of minutes if a donor is eager and willing. Henry Chris Lepine wrote: > If the legality of file storage is a concern, I have a private host > with 600gb of storage available that I would be happy to offer as (at > least) a temporary or long-term storage solution. Access to the > storage would be easy to manage, and if the metadata became available > it would also work as a web host for it. > > I can only *hope* that Sarinee kept a backup of the site/mysql databases. > > - Chris > --- > The Artful Gamer: In Search of the Lyrical and Poetic in Video Games > http://www.artfulgamer.com > >> We may well be able to host if we can get hold of it. I'll check that >> out with my boss, but it's close enough to the work we are doing to >> make a case for it, if we can get an idea of the scale of hosting >> needed (and given we are an HE institution, there would be hoops to >> jump through to keep our legal people happy that everything there was >> legit) >> >> Dan >> >> Dan Pinchbeck >> Advanced Games Research Group >> School of Creative Technologies >> University of Portsmouth, UK >> >> www.thechineseroom.co.uk > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > -- Henry Lowood, Ph.D. Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections; Film & Media Collections HRG, Green Library, 557 Escondido Mall Stanford University Libraries Stanford CA 94305-6004 650-723-4602; lowood at stanford.edu; http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Dan.Pinchbeck at port.ac.uk Tue Feb 17 16:11:57 2009 From: Dan.Pinchbeck at port.ac.uk (Dan Pinchbeck) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 21:11:57 +0000 Subject: [game_preservation] Home of the Underdogs Message-ID: <499B281D020000B50008277F@stirling.iso.port.ac.uk> Hi all, OK, I've checked and provided the legal issues are clear, I have an initial agreement we could go ahead and host, although I think Henry's point about multiple versions is very important. What is going to be difficult for me at the moment is gathering it all together, but if someone can pitch in with that, I can get the ball rolling at our end Best, Dan Dan Pinchbeck Advanced Games Research Group School of Creative Technologies University of Portsmouth, UK www.thechineseroom.co.uk >>> Henry Lowood 17/02/09 6:27 PM >>> Chris, two separate issues here: 1. Whether some of the data is held in violation of any laws, such as DMCA in the US. This would already be the case for the Underdogs site. Issues are not necessarily clear and well-defined, esp. not the liability of anyone taking the data from the present owners of the site. I think it's virtually certain that the present owners will not indemnify anyone taking the data, but on the other hand, the issues were already there. 2. Totally separate from that, any entity taking on the task of hosting or archiving the data will want to document the transfer of ownership and the terms of the transfer. This is an issue for institutions, for sure. Neither of these is a barrier to transfer to an institution. They are issues that need to be sorted out. In fact, the transfer deed can be handled in a matter of minutes if a donor is eager and willing. Henry Chris Lepine wrote: > If the legality of file storage is a concern, I have a private host > with 600gb of storage available that I would be happy to offer as (at > least) a temporary or long-term storage solution. Access to the > storage would be easy to manage, and if the metadata became available > it would also work as a web host for it. > > I can only *hope* that Sarinee kept a backup of the site/mysql databases. > > - Chris > --- > The Artful Gamer: In Search of the Lyrical and Poetic in Video Games > http://www.artfulgamer.com > >> We may well be able to host if we can get hold of it. I'll check that >> out with my boss, but it's close enough to the work we are doing to >> make a case for it, if we can get an idea of the scale of hosting >> needed (and given we are an HE institution, there would be hoops to >> jump through to keep our legal people happy that everything there was >> legit) >> >> Dan >> >> Dan Pinchbeck >> Advanced Games Research Group >> School of Creative Technologies >> University of Portsmouth, UK >> >> www.thechineseroom.co.uk > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > -- Henry Lowood, Ph.D. Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections; Film & Media Collections HRG, Green Library, 557 Escondido Mall Stanford University Libraries Stanford CA 94305-6004 650-723-4602; lowood at stanford.edu; http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood From evilcowclone at gmail.com Tue Feb 17 19:27:31 2009 From: evilcowclone at gmail.com (Devin Monnens) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 17:27:31 -0700 Subject: [game_preservation] NEW IGDA $100 GDC discounts Message-ID: The IGDA JUST sent out a $100 discount code for the GDC. Unfortunately, they sent it out after many people registered AND on 5 PM of the last day of early discount registration (which has magically been extended to midnight today, Feb 17). That sure was nice of them, wasn't it? THANKFULLY, you can call them up to get the discount added to your ticket if you already purchased! This means if you're an IGDA member (and if you aren't, why not!) you can get a whole $150 taken off your pass purchase ($100 discount code PLUS $50 membership discount). Here's how you get your discount if you already registered: - Call this registration customer service number, which I pulled off the GDC main site: *(415) 947-6926* - You can listen to the menu, or choose option 2 (about passes) and then option 0 (speak to operator). - Kindly tell the operator that you registered for the GDC, but the IGDA didn't give out the discount code until today. They will ask you for your last name and first name, and then for the code, which is: *"IGDASP"* - They should put you on hold for a couple minutes, and then will promptly get back notifying you that the discount has been applied! - Be sure to thank the operator for helping you out and saving your $100! Note that if you haven't registered yet, you can just add the code where it says 'discount' for $100 off, along with your IGDA number for an additional $50 discount. Note that the IGDASP code ONLY works on the following passes: *Main Conference, All Access, Summits/Tutorial* (AKA "The Expensive Ones"). See you at the GDC! -- The sleep of Reason produces monsters. "Until next time..." Captain Commando -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrew at aarmstrong.org Thu Feb 19 13:34:58 2009 From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 18:34:58 +0000 Subject: [game_preservation] Final SIG Icon Completed Message-ID: <499DA652.7060305@aarmstrong.org> I've finished the final SIG Icon. I'll work on the font soon since we need it finished for the handout we'll have at GDC. The designs are here in various sizes: http://aarmstrong.org/gallery/v/projects/preslogos/ The last change was the redo the shine, which I've made to match the glass arc and is thicker. The original design was 64x64, so the 32x32 and 16x16 icons are not optimal (and just use whatever Inkscape thought best). The favicon is there (but you need to download and change it's extension). The SVG is downloadable - ignore the rubbish JPEG Gallery2 created, the actual file is downloadable (and viewable in SVG enabled browsers, like Firefox). Unless there are any further issues, I consider this finally complete. Suggestions for fonts are now welcome, the last design I used was a very basic "Square pixel" font, which while I like others were not too sure about. Andrew From andrew at aarmstrong.org Thu Feb 19 14:24:40 2009 From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 19:24:40 +0000 Subject: [game_preservation] Last call for proofreaders Message-ID: <499DB1F8.5080908@aarmstrong.org> I've sent out to those who wanted to proofreader the SIG's white paper the draft to check out. Anyone else interested in doing can still do so, but only if they email the list (or contact me off list) if they can get feedback to me by next Friday. Note: We will, of course, be sending it out to the SIG members via. the mailing list and website when it's complete (barring any things that were utterly missed which will be doubtful, but checking it then will be a good idea still!). We'll have some at GDC for those who might want one there, and copies will be orderable off Lulu for international people who want a hard copy rather then a PDF or document file. At the very least this is news that we're almost done. :) Thanks! Andrew From lowood at stanford.edu Thu Feb 19 22:21:09 2009 From: lowood at stanford.edu (Henry Lowood) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 19:21:09 -0800 Subject: [game_preservation] Final SIG Icon Completed In-Reply-To: <499DA652.7060305@aarmstrong.org> References: <499DA652.7060305@aarmstrong.org> Message-ID: <499E21A5.8070908@stanford.edu> Gratz, Andrew. Looks good on this page: http://www.igda.org/wiki/Game_Preservation_SIG Henry Andrew Armstrong wrote: > I've finished the final SIG Icon. I'll work on the font soon since we > need it finished for the handout we'll have at GDC. > > The designs are here in various sizes: > http://aarmstrong.org/gallery/v/projects/preslogos/ > > The last change was the redo the shine, which I've made to match the > glass arc and is thicker. > > The original design was 64x64, so the 32x32 and 16x16 icons are not > optimal (and just use whatever Inkscape thought best). The favicon is > there (but you need to download and change it's extension). The SVG is > downloadable - ignore the rubbish JPEG Gallery2 created, the actual > file is downloadable (and viewable in SVG enabled browsers, like > Firefox). > > Unless there are any further issues, I consider this finally complete. > Suggestions for fonts are now welcome, the last design I used was a > very basic "Square pixel" font, which while I like others were not too > sure about. > > Andrew > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation -- Henry Lowood Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections; Film & Media Collections HRG, Green Library 557 Escondido Mall, Stanford University Libraries Stanford CA 94305-6004 USA http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood lowood at stanford.edu; 650-723-4602 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From evilcowclone at gmail.com Sat Feb 21 13:57:35 2009 From: evilcowclone at gmail.com (Devin Monnens) Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 11:57:35 -0700 Subject: [game_preservation] Michael Jackson's arcade game auction Message-ID: Julian's is auctioning off Michael Jackson's arcade game collection (along with a bunch of his other crap). I'm having difficulty loading this site on my Mac, but is it possible to download the whole catalogue? This sounds like it would be a big cultural document. Really makes you wonder why he's got so many arcade games... And why he doesn't have Moonwalker for sale! -Devin -- The sleep of Reason produces monsters. "Until next time..." Captain Commando -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From evilcowclone at gmail.com Sat Feb 21 14:07:44 2009 From: evilcowclone at gmail.com (Devin Monnens) Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 12:07:44 -0700 Subject: [game_preservation] EarthBound DEFINITELY NOT coming to the US Message-ID: Starmen.net has commented that EarthBound will NOT be coming to the US Virtual Console. As a result, it will be impossible for anyone to play this game in English without forking over $100+ for a copy of the SNES version (I hear copies of EB are now selling for upwards of $200 on E-bay). The main reason cited was copyright over the music in the game. It's a horrible reason that one of the most classic games of the SNES era will likely never see the light of day again. Thank you again, lawyers, for screwing over innovation yet again. http://starmen.net/ebvc/ Unfortunately, it looks like these kinds of issues are going to plague game preservation for a long time. Altering content affects preservation (so StarTropics on the VC is definitely NOT preservation of the game), and copyright problems prevent otherwise good games from being rereleased (which in some ways is worse because we would at least have SOME version that's easy to obtain). So Disney videogames and the like stand a chance of being lost due to the company's own over-defensiveness of its copyright. Devin Monnens -- The sleep of Reason produces monsters. "Until next time..." Captain Commando -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mike at multimedia.cx Sat Feb 21 14:19:13 2009 From: mike at multimedia.cx (Mike Melanson) Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 11:19:13 -0800 Subject: [game_preservation] EarthBound DEFINITELY NOT coming to the US In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49A053B1.2080502@multimedia.cx> Devin Monnens wrote: > Starmen.net has commented that EarthBound will NOT be coming to the US > Virtual Console. As a result, it will be impossible for anyone to play > this game in English without forking over $100+ for a copy of the SNES > version Ahem, impossible to play "legally". What mailing list do you think you're on here? :) -- -Mike Melanson From evilcowclone at gmail.com Sat Feb 21 14:28:00 2009 From: evilcowclone at gmail.com (Devin Monnens) Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 12:28:00 -0700 Subject: [game_preservation] EarthBound DEFINITELY NOT coming to the US In-Reply-To: <49A053B1.2080502@multimedia.cx> References: <49A053B1.2080502@multimedia.cx> Message-ID: Well of course any game can be pirated. But piracy is not a valid option for libraries and archives. That's not exactly going to earn brownie points with the industry, whose support we need. In that regard, I'm not sure we're talking about the same mailing list, regardless of how people might obtain games outside of the archive. As for average joes who want to play the game... I think it's a shame when the only way to legally get it is to shell out $200 to some chump for a game they just want to play. It was bad enough when these were $60 used... Devin Monnens On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 12:19 PM, Mike Melanson wrote: > Devin Monnens wrote: > >> Starmen.net has commented that EarthBound will NOT be coming to the US >> Virtual Console. As a result, it will be impossible for anyone to play this >> game in English without forking over $100+ for a copy of the SNES version >> > > Ahem, impossible to play "legally". What mailing list do you think you're > on here? > > :) > > -- > -Mike Melanson > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > -- The sleep of Reason produces monsters. "Until next time..." Captain Commando -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mike at multimedia.cx Sat Feb 21 14:50:41 2009 From: mike at multimedia.cx (Mike Melanson) Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 11:50:41 -0800 Subject: [game_preservation] EarthBound DEFINITELY NOT coming to the US In-Reply-To: References: <49A053B1.2080502@multimedia.cx> Message-ID: <49A05B11.90902@multimedia.cx> Reminds me of this tale: http://www.actsofgord.com/Chronicles/chapter33.php "This entire conversation could not have happened and many more souls could have been given the opportunity to play [Panzer Dragoon Saga] had Sega of America bothered to produce more than 5000 copies, especially after Sega had completely sold out on the first day." -- -Mike Melanson Devin Monnens wrote: > Well of course any game can be pirated. But piracy is not a valid option > for libraries and archives. That's not exactly going to earn brownie > points with the industry, whose support we need. In that regard, I'm not > sure we're talking about the same mailing list, regardless of how people > might obtain games outside of the archive. > > As for average joes who want to play the game... I think it's a shame > when the only way to legally get it is to shell out $200 to some chump > for a game they just want to play. It was bad enough when these were $60 > used... > > Devin Monnens > > On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 12:19 PM, Mike Melanson > wrote: > > Devin Monnens wrote: > > Starmen.net has commented that EarthBound will NOT be coming to > the US Virtual Console. As a result, it will be impossible for > anyone to play this game in English without forking over $100+ > for a copy of the SNES version > > > Ahem, impossible to play "legally". What mailing list do you think > you're on here? > > :) > > -- > -Mike Melanson > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > > > > > -- > The sleep of Reason produces monsters. > > "Until next time..." > Captain Commando > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation From evilcowclone at gmail.com Sat Feb 21 15:18:26 2009 From: evilcowclone at gmail.com (Devin Monnens) Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 13:18:26 -0700 Subject: [game_preservation] EarthBound DEFINITELY NOT coming to the US In-Reply-To: <49A05B11.90902@multimedia.cx> References: <49A053B1.2080502@multimedia.cx> <49A05B11.90902@multimedia.cx> Message-ID: "Oh Sega, why do you taunt us so by refusing to make more copies available of games people want? Yet Sega of America wonders why they have never posted a profit since 1994." So true. Unfortunately, Nintendo has other ways of making money than satisfying zealous fans. So much for art for the sake of the populace. Gonna have to check out the rest of the site. -Devin On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 12:50 PM, Mike Melanson wrote: > Reminds me of this tale: > > http://www.actsofgord.com/Chronicles/chapter33.php > > "This entire conversation could not have happened and many more souls could > have been given the opportunity to play [Panzer Dragoon Saga] had Sega of > America bothered to produce more than 5000 copies, especially after Sega had > completely sold out on the first day." > > -- > -Mike Melanson > > > > Devin Monnens wrote: > >> Well of course any game can be pirated. But piracy is not a valid option >> for libraries and archives. That's not exactly going to earn brownie points >> with the industry, whose support we need. In that regard, I'm not sure we're >> talking about the same mailing list, regardless of how people might obtain >> games outside of the archive. >> >> As for average joes who want to play the game... I think it's a shame when >> the only way to legally get it is to shell out $200 to some chump for a game >> they just want to play. It was bad enough when these were $60 used... >> >> Devin Monnens >> >> On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 12:19 PM, Mike Melanson > mike at multimedia.cx>> wrote: >> >> Devin Monnens wrote: >> >> Starmen.net has commented that EarthBound will NOT be coming to >> the US Virtual Console. As a result, it will be impossible for >> anyone to play this game in English without forking over $100+ >> for a copy of the SNES version >> >> >> Ahem, impossible to play "legally". What mailing list do you think >> you're on here? >> >> :) >> >> -- -Mike Melanson >> _______________________________________________ >> game_preservation mailing list >> game_preservation at igda.org >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation >> >> >> >> >> -- >> The sleep of Reason produces monsters. >> >> "Until next time..." >> Captain Commando >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> game_preservation mailing list >> game_preservation at igda.org >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation >> > > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > -- The sleep of Reason produces monsters. "Until next time..." Captain Commando -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrew at aarmstrong.org Sat Feb 21 16:54:08 2009 From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong) Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 21:54:08 +0000 Subject: [game_preservation] Michael Jackson's arcade game auction In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49A07800.3070906@aarmstrong.org> I saw a picture of one of Sega's VR machines on sale (a picture in the Guardian and linked to from GamOvr) but I've no idea about the catalogue itself. Sounds interesting, seeing some of the other useless rubbish he had for sale for thousands of dollars there might be something worth a few bob there game wise, hehe. Andrew Devin Monnens wrote: > Julian's is auctioning off Michael Jackson's arcade game collection > (along with a bunch of his other crap). I'm having difficulty loading > this site on my Mac, but is it possible to download the whole > catalogue? This sounds like it would be a big cultural document. > Really makes you wonder why he's got so many arcade games... And why > he doesn't have Moonwalker for sale! > > -Devin > > -- > The sleep of Reason produces monsters. > > "Until next time..." > Captain Commando > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrew at aarmstrong.org Sat Feb 21 16:56:33 2009 From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong) Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 21:56:33 +0000 Subject: [game_preservation] EarthBound DEFINITELY NOT coming to the US In-Reply-To: <49A053B1.2080502@multimedia.cx> References: <49A053B1.2080502@multimedia.cx> Message-ID: <49A07891.6000808@aarmstrong.org> Apart from that, I'd note that emulation, once the library system has a valid copy and law behind it, might be worthwhile looking at. Or ignorance/lazyness of the companies who produced those games in the first place. Film does it right, games do it poorly. Might change in the future though, never say never (then again, never say we won't have perpetual copyright, oh joy...) Andrew Mike Melanson wrote: > Devin Monnens wrote: >> Starmen.net has commented that EarthBound will NOT be coming to the >> US Virtual Console. As a result, it will be impossible for anyone to >> play this game in English without forking over $100+ for a copy of >> the SNES version > > Ahem, impossible to play "legally". What mailing list do you think > you're on here? > > :) > From mike at multimedia.cx Sun Feb 22 01:55:27 2009 From: mike at multimedia.cx (Mike Melanson) Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 22:55:27 -0800 Subject: [game_preservation] EarthBound DEFINITELY NOT coming to the US In-Reply-To: References: <49A053B1.2080502@multimedia.cx> <49A05B11.90902@multimedia.cx> Message-ID: <49A0F6DF.1040908@multimedia.cx> OTOH, here's a humorous commentary on the kinds of games that Sega *does* choose to release (and release and release): http://penny-arcade.com/comic/2003/02/03/ -- -Mike Melanson Devin Monnens wrote: > "Oh Sega, why do you taunt us so by refusing to make more copies > available of games people want? > > Yet Sega of America wonders why they have never posted a profit since 1994." > > So true. Unfortunately, Nintendo has other ways of making money than > satisfying zealous fans. So much for art for the sake of the populace. > > Gonna have to check out the rest of the site. > > -Devin > > On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 12:50 PM, Mike Melanson > wrote: > > Reminds me of this tale: > > http://www.actsofgord.com/Chronicles/chapter33.php > > "This entire conversation could not have happened and many more > souls could have been given the opportunity to play [Panzer Dragoon > Saga] had Sega of America bothered to produce more than 5000 copies, > especially after Sega had completely sold out on the first day." > > -- > -Mike Melanson > > > > Devin Monnens wrote: > > Well of course any game can be pirated. But piracy is not a > valid option for libraries and archives. That's not exactly > going to earn brownie points with the industry, whose support we > need. In that regard, I'm not sure we're talking about the same > mailing list, regardless of how people might obtain games > outside of the archive. > > As for average joes who want to play the game... I think it's a > shame when the only way to legally get it is to shell out $200 > to some chump for a game they just want to play. It was bad > enough when these were $60 used... > > Devin Monnens > > On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 12:19 PM, Mike Melanson > > >> wrote: > > Devin Monnens wrote: > > Starmen.net has commented that EarthBound will NOT be > coming to > the US Virtual Console. As a result, it will be > impossible for > anyone to play this game in English without forking over > $100+ > for a copy of the SNES version > > > Ahem, impossible to play "legally". What mailing list do you > think > you're on here? > > :) > > -- -Mike Melanson > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > > > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > > > > > -- > The sleep of Reason produces monsters. > > "Until next time..." > Captain Commando > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > > > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > > > > > -- > The sleep of Reason produces monsters. > > "Until next time..." > Captain Commando > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation From evilcowclone at gmail.com Sun Feb 22 23:18:22 2009 From: evilcowclone at gmail.com (Devin Monnens) Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 21:18:22 -0700 Subject: [game_preservation] Request: scan of Oregon Trail Message-ID: Could somebody do me a favor and send me a scan the 5.25" floppy disk of Oregon Trail? I need it for the White Paper cover design. -Devin -- The sleep of Reason produces monsters. "Until next time..." Captain Commando -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stuart.feldhamer at gmail.com Sun Feb 22 23:54:46 2009 From: stuart.feldhamer at gmail.com (Stuart Feldhamer) Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 23:54:46 -0500 Subject: [game_preservation] Request: scan of Oregon Trail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49a22c18.0405be0a.1493.6e71@mx.google.com> Sorry, I don't have that one. I'm curious to see who comes up with this. : ) Stuart PS - You have just died of dysentery. From: game_preservation-bounces at igda.org [mailto:game_preservation-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Devin Monnens Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 11:18 PM To: IGDA Game Preservation SIG Subject: [game_preservation] Request: scan of Oregon Trail Could somebody do me a favor and send me a scan the 5.25" floppy disk of Oregon Trail? I need it for the White Paper cover design. -Devin -- The sleep of Reason produces monsters. "Until next time..." Captain Commando -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrew at aarmstrong.org Mon Feb 23 08:13:08 2009 From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 13:13:08 +0000 Subject: [game_preservation] Home of the Underdogs In-Reply-To: <19090247.3593.1234502151732.JavaMail.help@alum.mit.edu> References: <19090247.3593.1234502151732.JavaMail.help@alum.mit.edu> Message-ID: <49A2A0E4.7030908@aarmstrong.org> An update (or rather, lack of one), I've heard nothing from the old site owner, and have no other leads since I was never a part of the Underdogs community. So a dead end from me. Anyone else have any better luck or know anyone from the community? (or someone who does know something about the community?) Andrew Alan Au wrote: > Hi All - > > I've mostly been lurking, but I did want to pop my head up to mention that the long-standing abandonware site "Home of the Underdogs" finally succumbed to hosting troubles on Monday (the webhosting company went bankrupt) and is probably gone for good. The preservation community is that much poorer for it. > > RIP HotU. > > - Alan > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Dan.Pinchbeck at port.ac.uk Mon Feb 23 08:24:42 2009 From: Dan.Pinchbeck at port.ac.uk (Dan Pinchbeck) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 13:24:42 +0000 Subject: [game_preservation] Home of the Underdogs Message-ID: <49A2A39A020000B500083142@stirling.iso.port.ac.uk> I had a breif email exchange with Sarinee, and she said there were several other offers of hosting apart from us. She talked about maybe setting up a group to discuss how to proceed, but nothing since them. Didn't want to hassle her unduly, so holding off a week or two to see if it progresses.... Dan Dan Pinchbeck Advanced Games Research Group School of Creative Technologies University of Portsmouth, UK www.thechineseroom.co.uk >>> Andrew Armstrong 23/02/09 1:13 PM >>> An update (or rather, lack of one), I've heard nothing from the old site owner, and have no other leads since I was never a part of the Underdogs community. So a dead end from me. Anyone else have any better luck or know anyone from the community? (or someone who does know something about the community?) Andrew Alan Au wrote: > Hi All - > > I've mostly been lurking, but I did want to pop my head up to mention that the long-standing abandonware site "Home of the Underdogs" finally succumbed to hosting troubles on Monday (the webhosting company went bankrupt) and is probably gone for good. The preservation community is that much poorer for it. > > RIP HotU. > > - Alan > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > From andrew at aarmstrong.org Mon Feb 23 09:15:57 2009 From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 14:15:57 +0000 Subject: [game_preservation] Home of the Underdogs In-Reply-To: <49A2A39A020000B500083142@stirling.iso.port.ac.uk> References: <49A2A39A020000B500083142@stirling.iso.port.ac.uk> Message-ID: <49A2AF9D.3000605@aarmstrong.org> Roger, glad someone was able to contact her. We'll await your word! Andrew Dan Pinchbeck wrote: > I had a breif email exchange with Sarinee, and she said there were several other offers of hosting apart from us. She talked about maybe setting up a group to discuss how to proceed, but nothing since them. Didn't want to hassle her unduly, so holding off a week or two to see if it progresses.... > > > Dan > > Dan Pinchbeck > Advanced Games Research Group > School of Creative Technologies > University of Portsmouth, UK > > www.thechineseroom.co.uk From trixter at oldskool.org Mon Feb 23 11:55:36 2009 From: trixter at oldskool.org (Jim Leonard) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 10:55:36 -0600 Subject: [game_preservation] Home of the Underdogs In-Reply-To: <49A2A0E4.7030908@aarmstrong.org> References: <19090247.3593.1234502151732.JavaMail.help@alum.mit.edu> <49A2A0E4.7030908@aarmstrong.org> Message-ID: <49A2D508.1080400@oldskool.org> Andrew Armstrong wrote: > An update (or rather, lack of one), I've heard nothing from the old site > owner, and have no other leads since I was never a part of the Underdogs > community. > > So a dead end from me. Anyone else have any better luck or know anyone > from the community? (or someone who does know something about the > community?) Two people on this list have a history with the site owner, and may be contacting her shortly. -- Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/ Help our electronic games project: http://www.mobygames.com/ Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/ A child borne of the home computer wars: http://trixter.wordpress.com/ From trixter at oldskool.org Mon Feb 23 11:56:12 2009 From: trixter at oldskool.org (Jim Leonard) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 10:56:12 -0600 Subject: [game_preservation] Home of the Underdogs In-Reply-To: <49A2AF9D.3000605@aarmstrong.org> References: <49A2A39A020000B500083142@stirling.iso.port.ac.uk> <49A2AF9D.3000605@aarmstrong.org> Message-ID: <49A2D52C.1060701@oldskool.org> Andrew Armstrong wrote: > Roger, glad someone was able to contact her. We'll await your word! Thanks again Roger. We'll hold off contacting her until we hear back from you. -- Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/ Help our electronic games project: http://www.mobygames.com/ Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/ A child borne of the home computer wars: http://trixter.wordpress.com/ From andrew at aarmstrong.org Mon Feb 23 12:57:36 2009 From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 17:57:36 +0000 Subject: [game_preservation] Home of the Underdogs In-Reply-To: <49A2D52C.1060701@oldskool.org> References: <49A2A39A020000B500083142@stirling.iso.port.ac.uk> <49A2AF9D.3000605@aarmstrong.org> <49A2D52C.1060701@oldskool.org> Message-ID: <49A2E390.5060804@aarmstrong.org> The sarcastic guy in us all remember Airplane! :p Hehehehe :) Andrew Jim Leonard wrote: > Andrew Armstrong wrote: >> Roger, glad someone was able to contact her. We'll await your word! > > Thanks again Roger. We'll hold off contacting her until we hear back > from you. From chris at artfulgamer.com Mon Feb 23 14:32:15 2009 From: chris at artfulgamer.com (Chris Lepine) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 12:32:15 -0700 Subject: [game_preservation] Request: scan of Oregon Trail (Devin Monnens) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0AD2D83E-41D2-4363-8F13-60DB496C9255@artfulgamer.com> Hi Devin, I'll send in a scan late this evening, unless someone else can do it sooner. - Chris --- The Artful Gamer: In Search of the Lyrical and Poetic in Video Games http://www.artfulgamer.com On 23-Feb-09, at 10:00 AM, game_preservation-request at igda.org wrote: > Request: scan of Oregon Trail (Devin Monnens) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From evilcowclone at gmail.com Mon Feb 23 20:22:40 2009 From: evilcowclone at gmail.com (Devin Monnens) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 18:22:40 -0700 Subject: [game_preservation] Request: scan of Oregon Trail (Devin Monnens) In-Reply-To: <0AD2D83E-41D2-4363-8F13-60DB496C9255@artfulgamer.com> References: <0AD2D83E-41D2-4363-8F13-60DB496C9255@artfulgamer.com> Message-ID: Thank you, Chris. Devin On Mon, Feb 23, 2009 at 12:32 PM, Chris Lepine wrote: > Hi Devin, > > I'll send in a scan late this evening, unless someone else can do it > sooner. > > - Chris > > --- > The Artful Gamer: In Search of the Lyrical and Poetic in Video Games > http://www.artfulgamer.com > > > > On 23-Feb-09, at 10:00 AM, game_preservation-request at igda.org wrote: > > Request: scan of Oregon Trail (Devin Monnens) > > > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > > -- The sleep of Reason produces monsters. "Until next time..." Captain Commando -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lists at softpres.org Tue Feb 24 18:01:22 2009 From: lists at softpres.org (Kieron Wilkinson) Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 23:01:22 +0000 Subject: [game_preservation] Preservation of analogue game media In-Reply-To: <65E7BE74-2367-4FA9-ACE3-F920AF417697@softpres.org> References: <4C6172A7-4945-4F5E-AE76-CF8AA1E21772@softpres.org> <498DBC31.60402@aarmstrong.org> <65E7BE74-2367-4FA9-ACE3-F920AF417697@softpres.org> Message-ID: <53858420-0A5B-4BB4-A0DF-707D42CBD803@softpres.org> I'm not sure how much interest there is in this, but I'll carry on regardless. :) In my previous post, I summarised what I thought were the technical challenges faces in preserving games stored on floppy disk media. I them split those points into two categories, which I will now detail further. a) Reading the disks in the first place Getting hold of appropriate disk drives seems to be easy enough for the majority of disk types, the problem is getting the raw data off the disk. Floppy disks are an analogue storage medium, and data is not directly stored as 0's and 1's like on Compact Discs and flash drives, but as magnetic polarity changes ('flux transitions'). The problem is that you cannot generally read these flux transitions through a computer, as there is hardware in the way way to make accessing the data "easier" (and did it's job well, but now is a problem for preservation). This "raw" form is the ideal thing for preservation. Once you have this, you don't care about disk formats or copy protection - you are just doing a raw read of a disk - and it all comes along for the ride. You might think that if the computer can read the data, there shouldn't a problem. Unfortunately that is not the case, the only way to get a computer to read particular things is to write it in a special way on special hardware, a concept that underlies many copy protection techniques. b) Knowing that what you have read is correct Secondly, there is knowing whether the disk image you have made is correct. There is little point of trying to preserve games if you cannot be sure whether those disk images are okay or not. With most types of storage media we use today, this is not a problem - the data is checked as it is copied. But games on floppy disks are a special case, you often do not know where the checksum/integrity information is stored on the disk, and even for known disk formats, games developers applied copy protection that deliberately wasn't covered by the integrity data. The disks are old already, the data may already be broken, and you won't know if you need to find another copy without being confident in your disk images. You cannot play the game to check it, the corruption may not be apparent until, say, level 14. Also, how do you know the copy protection passed? It is not always obvious. Borrowed Time on the Commodore Amiga has very nice protection, if it fails, you can't find some items to allow you to proceed in the game, they simply don't appear - and that is not the only example. It gets worse, what if somebody modifies a game disk (virus, accident, malicious intent, save games)? There will be no corruption, but it certainly is no longer an authentic copy suitable for preservation. I firmly believe that any disk images produced also require some sort of checking to be confident in their preservation status. I'll drop a small note here that The Software Preservation Society check for all of above for every single game preserved (nearly 3000 so far). I think all that covers the points raised in my last email. With these sorts of difficulties, it is no wonder that game preservation (for computers at least) has historically been in such a poor state. In my next post, I will detail some new developments that I believe makes the future brighter for everybody. If anyone has any comments on any of this, please feel free to chime in with your thoughts. Kieron On 13 Feb 2009, at 23:05, Kieron Wilkinson wrote: > > Since I have been away for a while, I was trying to get a feel for > how things have changed, and I thought this was a good place to > start. I guess there doesn't seem to be many people here involved > with that side of things, perhaps it is still very much an ad-hoc > process. > > As I said before, there does seem to be a number of common technical > problems in preserving game media. Here are the ones I can think of: > > 1) Devices required to read the disks > 2) The different and custom disk formats in use (I don't mean the > physical disk format here, but how the software data is structured > on the disk) > 3) The presence of any disk-based copy protection (the whole purpose > of which is to hide itself) > 4) Degradation of original disks, leading to corrupted reads > 5) Authenticity (ensuring disks are original and unmodified) > > I'd like to cover these points as two distinct problems... > > a) Reading the disks in the first place (points 1, 2 and 3). > b) Knowing that what you have read is preservable (points 4 and 5, > but also involves 2 and 3). > > I don't want to go into too much detail in one post, so I will leave > it at this for now, and follow up this two issues separately later. > > If anyone has any comments on any of this, please feel free to chime > in with your thoughts. > Kieron > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrew at aarmstrong.org Wed Feb 25 05:16:24 2009 From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 10:16:24 +0000 Subject: [game_preservation] Preservation of analogue game media In-Reply-To: <53858420-0A5B-4BB4-A0DF-707D42CBD803@softpres.org> References: <4C6172A7-4945-4F5E-AE76-CF8AA1E21772@softpres.org> <498DBC31.60402@aarmstrong.org> <65E7BE74-2367-4FA9-ACE3-F920AF417697@softpres.org> <53858420-0A5B-4BB4-A0DF-707D42CBD803@softpres.org> Message-ID: <49A51A78.7070006@aarmstrong.org> I'm interested in hearing more and how people can help. Responses on this mailing list widely vary, and there isn't as many institutions as I'd like to see involved here, we'll need to invite more people on :) Andrew Kieron Wilkinson wrote: > I'm not sure how much interest there is in this, but I'll carry on > regardless. :) > > In my previous post, I summarised what I thought were the technical > challenges faces in preserving games stored on floppy disk media. I > them split those points into two categories, which I will now detail > further. > > a) Reading the disks in the first place > > Getting hold of appropriate disk drives seems to be easy enough for > the majority of disk types, the problem is getting the raw data off > the disk. Floppy disks are an analogue storage medium, and data is not > directly stored as 0's and 1's like on Compact Discs and flash drives, > but as magnetic polarity changes ('flux transitions'). The problem is > that you cannot generally read these flux transitions through a > computer, as there is hardware in the way way to make accessing the > data "easier" (and did it's job well, but now is a problem for > preservation). This "raw" form is the ideal thing for preservation. > Once you have this, you don't care about disk formats or copy > protection - you are just doing a raw read of a disk - and it all > comes along for the ride. > > You might think that if the computer can read the data, there > shouldn't a problem. Unfortunately that is not the case, the only way > to get a computer to read particular things is to write it in a > special way on special hardware, a concept that underlies many copy > protection techniques. > > > b) Knowing that what you have read is correct > > Secondly, there is knowing whether the disk image you have made is > correct. There is little point of trying to preserve games if you > cannot be sure whether those disk images are okay or not. With most > types of storage media we use today, this is not a problem - the data > is checked as it is copied. But games on floppy disks are a special > case, you often do not know where the checksum/integrity information > is stored on the disk, and even for known disk formats, games > developers applied copy protection that deliberately wasn't covered by > the integrity data. The disks are old already, the data may already be > broken, and you won't know if you need to find another copy without > being confident in your disk images. > > You cannot play the game to check it, the corruption may not be > apparent until, say, level 14. Also, how do you know the copy > protection passed? It is not always obvious. Borrowed Time on the > Commodore Amiga has very nice protection, if it fails, you can't find > some items to allow you to proceed in the game, they simply don't > appear - and that is not the only example. > > It gets worse, what if somebody modifies a game disk (virus, accident, > malicious intent, save games)? There will be no corruption, but it > certainly is no longer an authentic copy suitable for preservation. > > I firmly believe that any disk images produced also require some sort > of checking to be confident in their preservation status. I'll drop a > small note here that The Software Preservation Society check for all > of above for every single game preserved (nearly 3000 so far). > > > I think all that covers the points raised in my last email. > > > With these sorts of difficulties, it is no wonder that game > preservation (for computers at least) has historically been in such a > poor state. > In my next post, I will detail some new developments that I believe > makes the future brighter for everybody. > > If anyone has any comments on any of this, please feel free to chime > in with your thoughts. > Kieron > > > On 13 Feb 2009, at 23:05, Kieron Wilkinson wrote: > >> >> Since I have been away for a while, I was trying to get a feel for >> how things have changed, and I thought this was a good place to >> start. I guess there doesn't seem to be many people here involved >> with that side of things, perhaps it is still very much an ad-hoc >> process. >> >> As I said before, there does seem to be a number of common technical >> problems in preserving game media. Here are the ones I can think of: >> >> 1) Devices required to read the disks >> 2) The different and custom disk formats in use (I don't mean the >> physical disk format here, but how the software data is structured on >> the disk) >> 3) The presence of any disk-based copy protection (the whole purpose >> of which is to hide itself) >> 4) Degradation of original disks, leading to corrupted reads >> 5) Authenticity (ensuring disks are original and unmodified) >> >> I'd like to cover these points as two distinct problems... >> >> a) Reading the disks in the first place (points 1, 2 and 3). >> b) Knowing that what you have read is preservable (points 4 and 5, >> but also involves 2 and 3). >> >> I don't want to go into too much detail in one post, so I will leave >> it at this for now, and follow up this two issues separately later. >> >> If anyone has any comments on any of this, please feel free to chime >> in with your thoughts. >> Kieron >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > game_preservation mailing list > game_preservation at igda.org > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From donahrm at gmail.com Sat Feb 28 14:04:55 2009 From: donahrm at gmail.com (Rachel Donahue) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 14:04:55 -0500 Subject: [game_preservation] Game preservation survey Message-ID: I am quite excited to announce that the surveys have been approved and are available on Survey Monkey! I don't quite want to say "spread this far and wide," as I will have a lot of text to parse, but I would definitely appreciate some help getting these to _serious_ players/collectors and most especially any contacts any you might have in the videogame industry (even at small shops). As a refresher (or introduction), the industry survey is targeted towards people involved in records management and preservation activities within their company, if such a person exists. The community survey is targeted towards people who have taken an active role in preservation efforts there, whether that's providing metadata or working on an emulation project. Community survey: http://tinyurl.com/gds-com Industry survey: http://tinyurl.com/gds-ind Thanks! Rach ------- Rachel Donahue Graduate Assistant Maryland Institute for Technology in the Humanities University of Maryland, College Park College Park, MD -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: