From mike at multimedia.cx  Fri May  1 01:25:14 2009
From: mike at multimedia.cx (Mike Melanson)
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 22:25:14 -0700
Subject: [game_preservation] Fwd:  MASSIVE e-bay auction in the UK
In-Reply-To: <9d1cf2d50904300652o43728107x67bda37265acf3a5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9d1cf2d50904292115j7aac553dqcc2c3c1268fbe492@mail.gmail.com>	<49F9324A.8060907@multimedia.cx>
	<49F960C1.3040503@aarmstrong.org>	<49F9AAAA.6060105@multimedia.cx>
	<9d1cf2d50904300652o43728107x67bda37265acf3a5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49FA87BA.3090203@multimedia.cx>

Everything I have is US gear. Thanks for the tip about which regional 
interest. I have no shortage of offers to take this stuff off my hands. 
:) I might just throw in my meager collection of SNES games (17) while 
I'm at it.

-- 
     -Mike Melanson


Devin Monnens wrote:
> Mike,
> 
> Dan brings up an interesting point. What region is this system? If it's 
> US, it's more likely that a European or Japanese archive might be 
> interested in it more (unless it's an archive that is just developing 
> itself - I think most game archives would already have most of the stuff 
> you mention as they're fairly common). If it's UK then a US archive 
> might have greater interest. This is because we usually only have access 
> to games that are from our own region. I'm making sure Judd, Ken, and 
> Aki Nakamura get this too to see if they have any input.
> 
> BTW, does anyone know if European NES games will play on a US NES? I've 
> got a copy of Super Turrican I've been too afraid to stick into a system 
> for fear it would damage the system and/or game!
> 
> -Devin
> 
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: *Mike Melanson* <mike at multimedia.cx <mailto:mike at multimedia.cx>>
> Date: Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 7:42 AM
> Subject: Re: [game_preservation] MASSIVE e-bay auction in the UK
> To: IGDA Game Preservation SIG <game_preservation at igda.org 
> <mailto:game_preservation at igda.org>>
> 
> 
> Andrew Armstrong wrote:
> 
>     Well, we have got a lagging project to get information on collectors
>     ;) (reminds me I need to write up the projects and send out info to
>     get some ideas going, although I don't think we have the people and
>     time to do all the ideas).
> 
>     The SIG itself can't exactly store anything, but the members who
>     have collections, archives and museums can :) but usually collectors
>     don't donate a great deal of their material over time - they usually
>     sell it, or pass it on to other collectors, or this is the
>     impression I've got from actually talking to them (except for the
>     odd few who do really donate things, which is awesome).
> 
> 
> I ask because I finally got to the point recently where I desire to get 
> rid of my NES collection. It consists of an official top loading NES 
> control deck and ~70 games (most valuable ones are original Final 
> Fantasy, Dragon Warrior II, and all 6 Mega Man games). I don't really 
> care about making a profit from it. And if there was a museum group to 
> donate it to, I wouldn't mind handing it over.
> 
> -- 
>    -Mike Melanson
> 
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org <mailto:game_preservation at igda.org>
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Devin Monnens
> www.deserthat.com <http://www.deserthat.com>
> 
> The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation



From Dan.Pinchbeck at port.ac.uk  Fri May  1 04:15:02 2009
From: Dan.Pinchbeck at port.ac.uk (Dan Pinchbeck)
Date: Fri, 01 May 2009 09:15:02 +0100
Subject: [game_preservation] [Projects] Emulator Information
Message-ID: <49FABD97020000B50008B5C9@stirling.iso.port.ac.uk>

Funny you should mention this - we've got a small list of available emulators already (x86 and C64) and it's on my to-do pile to bulk it out with some more... will send a bigger list through once we've got it together...

cheers all

dan

Dr Dan Pinchbeck
Advanced Games Research Group
School of Creative Technologies
University of Portsmouth, UK

www.thechineseroom.co.uk
www.keep.port.ac.uk
>>> Andrew Armstrong <andrew at aarmstrong.org> 30/04/09 4:06 PM >>>
Please put forward any comments, or if you want to help on this project:

    * *Title:* Emulator Information (Emulators)
    * *Purpose:* Articles and information on emulators, who makes them,
      who plays them and what ones exist for different computer systems.
      Information on what companies use them, what funded projects have
      worked on them and so forth would also be useful.
    * *Lead:* /None/
    * *Started:* N/A

This requires a similar set of work as the collectors, except it is a 
very, very small amount of people involved in making emulators, and 
finding them (some don't go online much funnily enough) is difficult. 
Some major projects, however, that spring to mind are MAME and SCUMMVM 
that need some investigation.

Funded projects that spring to mind are KEEP, as well as emulation work 
at the University of Tokyo. Commercially there is also a subset of 
industry dedicated to this (WiiWare, Xbox 360 ports, retro collections 
which all use emulation).

Andrew



From andrew at aarmstrong.org  Fri May  1 04:51:23 2009
From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong)
Date: Fri, 01 May 2009 09:51:23 +0100
Subject: [game_preservation] [Projects] Emulator Information
In-Reply-To: <49FABD97020000B50008B5C9@stirling.iso.port.ac.uk>
References: <49FABD97020000B50008B5C9@stirling.iso.port.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <49FAB80B.6050006@aarmstrong.org>

Wow, thanks! That's the major workload - all counted, there's probably a 
thousand systems and regional variations of systems including major 
computers (nevermind minor ones), but the main amount is a few hundred 
AFAIK, so any big list would be awesome.

That's a good point too - if anyone has any emulation resources - ie; 
websites dedicated to reporting news on emulators, or listing emulators, 
or providing downloads of them (not just for game systems) please post 
them :)

Andrew

Dan Pinchbeck wrote:
> Funny you should mention this - we've got a small list of available emulators already (x86 and C64) and it's on my to-do pile to bulk it out with some more... will send a bigger list through once we've got it together...
>
> cheers all
>
> dan
>
> Dr Dan Pinchbeck
> Advanced Games Research Group
> School of Creative Technologies
> University of Portsmouth, UK
>
> www.thechineseroom.co.uk
> www.keep.port.ac.uk
>   
>>>> Andrew Armstrong <andrew at aarmstrong.org> 30/04/09 4:06 PM >>>
>>>>         
> Please put forward any comments, or if you want to help on this project:
>
>     * *Title:* Emulator Information (Emulators)
>     * *Purpose:* Articles and information on emulators, who makes them,
>       who plays them and what ones exist for different computer systems.
>       Information on what companies use them, what funded projects have
>       worked on them and so forth would also be useful.
>     * *Lead:* /None/
>     * *Started:* N/A
>
> This requires a similar set of work as the collectors, except it is a 
> very, very small amount of people involved in making emulators, and 
> finding them (some don't go online much funnily enough) is difficult. 
> Some major projects, however, that spring to mind are MAME and SCUMMVM 
> that need some investigation.
>
> Funded projects that spring to mind are KEEP, as well as emulation work 
> at the University of Tokyo. Commercially there is also a subset of 
> industry dedicated to this (WiiWare, Xbox 360 ports, retro collections 
> which all use emulation).
>
> Andrew
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>   
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From Dan.Pinchbeck at port.ac.uk  Fri May  1 05:16:13 2009
From: Dan.Pinchbeck at port.ac.uk (Dan Pinchbeck)
Date: Fri, 01 May 2009 10:16:13 +0100
Subject: [game_preservation] [Projects] Emulator Information
Message-ID: <49FACBED020000B50008B5FE@stirling.iso.port.ac.uk>

Yeah, on that last point, that'd be a massive help - looks like I'm lining up for a month or two on Google as it is...

Dr Dan Pinchbeck
Advanced Games Research Group
School of Creative Technologies
University of Portsmouth, UK

www.thechineseroom.co.uk
www.keep.port.ac.uk
>>> Andrew Armstrong <andrew at aarmstrong.org> 01/05/09 9:52 AM >>>
Wow, thanks! That's the major workload - all counted, there's probably a 
thousand systems and regional variations of systems including major 
computers (nevermind minor ones), but the main amount is a few hundred 
AFAIK, so any big list would be awesome.

That's a good point too - if anyone has any emulation resources - ie; 
websites dedicated to reporting news on emulators, or listing emulators, 
or providing downloads of them (not just for game systems) please post 
them :)

Andrew

Dan Pinchbeck wrote:
> Funny you should mention this - we've got a small list of available emulators already (x86 and C64) and it's on my to-do pile to bulk it out with some more... will send a bigger list through once we've got it together...
>
> cheers all
>
> dan
>
> Dr Dan Pinchbeck
> Advanced Games Research Group
> School of Creative Technologies
> University of Portsmouth, UK
>
> www.thechineseroom.co.uk
> www.keep.port.ac.uk
>   
>>>> Andrew Armstrong <andrew at aarmstrong.org> 30/04/09 4:06 PM >>>
>>>>         
> Please put forward any comments, or if you want to help on this project:
>
>     * *Title:* Emulator Information (Emulators)
>     * *Purpose:* Articles and information on emulators, who makes them,
>       who plays them and what ones exist for different computer systems.
>       Information on what companies use them, what funded projects have
>       worked on them and so forth would also be useful.
>     * *Lead:* /None/
>     * *Started:* N/A
>
> This requires a similar set of work as the collectors, except it is a 
> very, very small amount of people involved in making emulators, and 
> finding them (some don't go online much funnily enough) is difficult. 
> Some major projects, however, that spring to mind are MAME and SCUMMVM 
> that need some investigation.
>
> Funded projects that spring to mind are KEEP, as well as emulation work 
> at the University of Tokyo. Commercially there is also a subset of 
> industry dedicated to this (WiiWare, Xbox 360 ports, retro collections 
> which all use emulation).
>
> Andrew
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>   


From dmonnens at gmail.com  Sun May  3 11:23:23 2009
From: dmonnens at gmail.com (Devin Monnens)
Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 09:23:23 -0600
Subject: [game_preservation] Encarta dies
Message-ID: <9d1cf2d50905030823p2c5010do6d3498cfbb94080c@mail.gmail.com>

The Times has a great article on the history of Encarta, that encyclopedia
that came for free when you purchased a Gateway computer in the mid-90s and
was a staple of universities. The Underdogs used to host other similar
multimedia CDs from this bygone age, and it's interesting to see how the
media has changed from then to now. We don't have news clips on sites like
Wikipedia or flash animations, just creative commons text, images, and the
freedom to edit them.

-- 
Devin Monnens
www.deserthat.com

The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
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From donahrm at gmail.com  Sun May  3 11:29:58 2009
From: donahrm at gmail.com (Rachel "Sheepy" Donahue)
Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 11:29:58 -0400
Subject: [game_preservation] Encarta dies
In-Reply-To: <9d1cf2d50905030823p2c5010do6d3498cfbb94080c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9d1cf2d50905030823p2c5010do6d3498cfbb94080c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <op.utc1b82ofmh8gn@sherpa.westell.com>

Wow.. no more Encarta. That really marks the end of the shareware age for  
me. I remember getting a new PC used to be as much fun for the packet of  
random disks as it was for the computer itself.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/03/business/03digi.html?hpw

On Sun, 03 May 2009 11:23:23 -0400, Devin Monnens <dmonnens at gmail.com>  
wrote:

> The Times has a great article on the history of Encarta, that  
> encyclopedia that came for free when you purchased a Gateway computer in  
> the mid-90s and was a staple of universities. The Underdogs used to host  
> other similar
> multimedia CDs from this bygone age, and it's interesting to see how the
> media has changed from then to now. We don't have news clips on sites  
> like Wikipedia or flash animations, just creative commons text, images,  
> and the freedom to edit them.

From andrew at aarmstrong.org  Sun May  3 11:38:46 2009
From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong)
Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 16:38:46 +0100
Subject: [game_preservation] Encarta dies
In-Reply-To: <op.utc1b82ofmh8gn@sherpa.westell.com>
References: <9d1cf2d50905030823p2c5010do6d3498cfbb94080c@mail.gmail.com>
	<op.utc1b82ofmh8gn@sherpa.westell.com>
Message-ID: <49FDBA86.7040007@aarmstrong.org>

I remember Encarta, I think we had a different few ones though included 
with our home PC's.

There are some other general online encyclopaedias still (and many more 
specialised ones) - although many are pay-gated ones, sadly. ( 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Online_encyclopedias ), but they 
are getting pushed out by Google and Wikipedia, as the article notes.

A loss, but Microsoft would only run something for a profit - which 
Encarta, I recall, was having problems with years and years ago.

Andrew

Rachel "Sheepy" Donahue wrote:
> Wow.. no more Encarta. That really marks the end of the shareware age 
> for me. I remember getting a new PC used to be as much fun for the 
> packet of random disks as it was for the computer itself.
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/03/business/03digi.html?hpw
>
> On Sun, 03 May 2009 11:23:23 -0400, Devin Monnens <dmonnens at gmail.com> 
> wrote:
>
>> The Times has a great article on the history of Encarta, that 
>> encyclopedia that came for free when you purchased a Gateway computer 
>> in the mid-90s and was a staple of universities. The Underdogs used 
>> to host other similar
>> multimedia CDs from this bygone age, and it's interesting to see how the
>> media has changed from then to now. We don't have news clips on sites 
>> like Wikipedia or flash animations, just creative commons text, 
>> images, and the freedom to edit them.
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation

From dmonnens at gmail.com  Sun May  3 12:43:57 2009
From: dmonnens at gmail.com (Devin Monnens)
Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 10:43:57 -0600
Subject: [game_preservation] Encarta dies
In-Reply-To: <49FDBA86.7040007@aarmstrong.org>
References: <9d1cf2d50905030823p2c5010do6d3498cfbb94080c@mail.gmail.com>
	<op.utc1b82ofmh8gn@sherpa.westell.com>
	<49FDBA86.7040007@aarmstrong.org>
Message-ID: <9d1cf2d50905030943x196c64bep8a5fe021ef5917ac@mail.gmail.com>

MSI includes nice packets of software with their video cards. Not that I'm
going to buy another one of them... Most of it is trial software though.

Google and Wikipedia also produce big problems in research. Students today
get all of their information from these places without being taught how to
differentiate between a reliable source and an unreliable source. I feel
this has more to do with the teachers failing to understand how to use these
resources and teachers also failing to teach their students how to look for
resources even 'the old-fashioned way' (or perhaps the students either
aren't being taught this or they just don't care). I wonder if we just need
to have a class that teaches students how to do research at a college level
using modern technology and make that required. Not that I'd be very
interested in teaching a bunch of freshmen that... But I could probably
outline one.

-Devin

On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 9:38 AM, Andrew Armstrong <andrew at aarmstrong.org>wrote:

> I remember Encarta, I think we had a different few ones though included
> with our home PC's.
>
> There are some other general online encyclopaedias still (and many more
> specialised ones) - although many are pay-gated ones, sadly. (
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Online_encyclopedias ), but they are
> getting pushed out by Google and Wikipedia, as the article notes.
>
> A loss, but Microsoft would only run something for a profit - which
> Encarta, I recall, was having problems with years and years ago.
>
> Andrew
>
>
> Rachel "Sheepy" Donahue wrote:
>
>> Wow.. no more Encarta. That really marks the end of the shareware age for
>> me. I remember getting a new PC used to be as much fun for the packet of
>> random disks as it was for the computer itself.
>>
>> http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/03/business/03digi.html?hpw
>>
>> On Sun, 03 May 2009 11:23:23 -0400, Devin Monnens <dmonnens at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>  The Times has a great article on the history of Encarta, that
>>> encyclopedia that came for free when you purchased a Gateway computer in the
>>> mid-90s and was a staple of universities. The Underdogs used to host other
>>> similar
>>> multimedia CDs from this bygone age, and it's interesting to see how the
>>> media has changed from then to now. We don't have news clips on sites
>>> like Wikipedia or flash animations, just creative commons text, images, and
>>> the freedom to edit them.
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> game_preservation mailing list
>> game_preservation at igda.org
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>>
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>



-- 
Devin Monnens
www.deserthat.com

The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
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From donahrm at gmail.com  Sun May  3 12:51:49 2009
From: donahrm at gmail.com (Rachel "Sheepy" Donahue)
Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 12:51:49 -0400
Subject: [game_preservation] Encarta dies
In-Reply-To: <9d1cf2d50905030943x196c64bep8a5fe021ef5917ac@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9d1cf2d50905030823p2c5010do6d3498cfbb94080c@mail.gmail.com>
	<op.utc1b82ofmh8gn@sherpa.westell.com>
	<49FDBA86.7040007@aarmstrong.org>
	<9d1cf2d50905030943x196c64bep8a5fe021ef5917ac@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <op.utc44nurfmh8gn@sherpa.westell.com>

My "College Writing Seminar" included a component on finding and  
evaluating sources, though it could have been more in depth. Hopefully  
they've updated it to reflect how much more we rely on the web these days!  
Even my master's program, I am sad to say, lacked a required research  
methods course, which is a shame (at least, since it's a library program,  
we had the concepts spread throughout the courses).. I agree that it's  
really important to integrate it into students' education.

Though we're not 100% lazy -- we'll use the scholarly databases, too, as  
long as they provide full text!

> Google and Wikipedia also produce big problems in research. Students  
> today get all of their information from these places without being  
> taught how to differentiate between a reliable source and an unreliable  
> source. I feel
> this has more to do with the teachers failing to understand how to use  
> these resources and teachers also failing to teach their students how to  
> look for resources even 'the old-fashioned way' (or perhaps the students  
> either
> aren't being taught this or they just don't care). I wonder if we just  
> need to have a class that teaches students how to do research at a  
> college level using modern technology and make that required. Not that  
> I'd be very
> interested in teaching a bunch of freshmen that... But I could probably
> outline one.
>
> -Devin

From dmonnens at gmail.com  Sun May  3 12:59:58 2009
From: dmonnens at gmail.com (Devin Monnens)
Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 10:59:58 -0600
Subject: [game_preservation] Encarta dies
In-Reply-To: <op.utc44nurfmh8gn@sherpa.westell.com>
References: <9d1cf2d50905030823p2c5010do6d3498cfbb94080c@mail.gmail.com>
	<op.utc1b82ofmh8gn@sherpa.westell.com>
	<49FDBA86.7040007@aarmstrong.org>
	<9d1cf2d50905030943x196c64bep8a5fe021ef5917ac@mail.gmail.com>
	<op.utc44nurfmh8gn@sherpa.westell.com>
Message-ID: <9d1cf2d50905030959y59eb9a92i548a17065556a658@mail.gmail.com>

Aye. That's why one of the best things I got from my university was a
lifetime membership to the library with graduate benefits! This means full
access to scholarly databases, electronic books, and (when they get it) the
Google Books collection! I have trouble imagining life without this...

I don't ever recall having a seminar on how to do research - that was
drilled into our heads in high school, and then the bit about 'reliable
sources' in college (at least I think that's where I learned it...).

-Devin

On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 10:51 AM, Rachel "Sheepy" Donahue
<donahrm at gmail.com>wrote:

> My "College Writing Seminar" included a component on finding and evaluating
> sources, though it could have been more in depth. Hopefully they've updated
> it to reflect how much more we rely on the web these days! Even my master's
> program, I am sad to say, lacked a required research methods course, which
> is a shame (at least, since it's a library program, we had the concepts
> spread throughout the courses).. I agree that it's really important to
> integrate it into students' education.
>
> Though we're not 100% lazy -- we'll use the scholarly databases, too, as
> long as they provide full text!
>
>  Google and Wikipedia also produce big problems in research. Students today
>> get all of their information from these places without being taught how to
>> differentiate between a reliable source and an unreliable source. I feel
>> this has more to do with the teachers failing to understand how to use
>> these resources and teachers also failing to teach their students how to
>> look for resources even 'the old-fashioned way' (or perhaps the students
>> either
>> aren't being taught this or they just don't care). I wonder if we just
>> need to have a class that teaches students how to do research at a college
>> level using modern technology and make that required. Not that I'd be very
>> interested in teaching a bunch of freshmen that... But I could probably
>> outline one.
>>
>> -Devin
>>
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>



-- 
Devin Monnens
www.deserthat.com

The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
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From donahrm at gmail.com  Sun May  3 13:35:55 2009
From: donahrm at gmail.com (Rachel "Sheepy" Donahue)
Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 13:35:55 -0400
Subject: [game_preservation] Encarta dies
In-Reply-To: <9d1cf2d50905030959y59eb9a92i548a17065556a658@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9d1cf2d50905030823p2c5010do6d3498cfbb94080c@mail.gmail.com>
	<op.utc1b82ofmh8gn@sherpa.westell.com>
	<49FDBA86.7040007@aarmstrong.org>
	<9d1cf2d50905030943x196c64bep8a5fe021ef5917ac@mail.gmail.com>
	<op.utc44nurfmh8gn@sherpa.westell.com>
	<9d1cf2d50905030959y59eb9a92i548a17065556a658@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <op.utc655d3fmh8gn@sherpa.westell.com>

> I have trouble imagining life without this...

Don't even try -- that's how I ended up back in school in the first place!

From stuart.feldhamer at gmail.com  Sun May  3 22:54:15 2009
From: stuart.feldhamer at gmail.com (Stuart Feldhamer)
Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 22:54:15 -0400
Subject: [game_preservation] Encarta dies
In-Reply-To: <op.utc1b82ofmh8gn@sherpa.westell.com>
References: <9d1cf2d50905030823p2c5010do6d3498cfbb94080c@mail.gmail.com>
	<op.utc1b82ofmh8gn@sherpa.westell.com>
Message-ID: <49fe58d8.281d640a.7493.1a68@mx.google.com>

I think you're confusing shareware with shovelware. : )

Stuart

> -----Original Message-----
> From: game_preservation-bounces at igda.org [mailto:game_preservation-
> bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Rachel "Sheepy" Donahue
> Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2009 11:30 AM
> To: IGDA Game Preservation SIG
> Subject: Re: [game_preservation] Encarta dies
> 
> Wow.. no more Encarta. That really marks the end of the shareware age
> for
> me. I remember getting a new PC used to be as much fun for the packet
> of
> random disks as it was for the computer itself.
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/03/business/03digi.html?hpw
> 
> On Sun, 03 May 2009 11:23:23 -0400, Devin Monnens <dmonnens at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > The Times has a great article on the history of Encarta, that
> > encyclopedia that came for free when you purchased a Gateway computer
> in
> > the mid-90s and was a staple of universities. The Underdogs used to
> host
> > other similar
> > multimedia CDs from this bygone age, and it's interesting to see how
> the
> > media has changed from then to now. We don't have news clips on sites
> > like Wikipedia or flash animations, just creative commons text,
> images,
> > and the freedom to edit them.
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation


From info at fadresearch.com  Mon May  4 09:47:05 2009
From: info at fadresearch.com (Info)
Date: Mon, 04 May 2009 09:47:05 -0400
Subject: [game_preservation] Encarta dies
In-Reply-To: <9d1cf2d50905030823p2c5010do6d3498cfbb94080c@mail.gmail.com
 >
References: <9d1cf2d50905030823p2c5010do6d3498cfbb94080c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20090504092120.05174210@fadresearch.com>

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From andrew at aarmstrong.org  Wed May  6 04:39:40 2009
From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong)
Date: Wed, 06 May 2009 09:39:40 +0100
Subject: [game_preservation] Monthly update coming...soon
Message-ID: <4A014CCC.2030605@aarmstrong.org>

The IGDA wiki is down, thus I've not been able to do the monthly 
roundup. Sorry about this!

Remember though, there's plenty to discuss with the projects. We're kind 
of understaffed, it appears, since most don't have any active interest 
right now, or in fact any disinterest even. It seems I'll have to go out 
and find new members for some of them or start them myself.

Andrew

From dmonnens at gmail.com  Wed May  6 09:47:09 2009
From: dmonnens at gmail.com (Devin Monnens)
Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 07:47:09 -0600
Subject: [game_preservation] Monthly update coming...soon
In-Reply-To: <4A014CCC.2030605@aarmstrong.org>
References: <4A014CCC.2030605@aarmstrong.org>
Message-ID: <9d1cf2d50905060647r793a7424m51a516342dd1e914@mail.gmail.com>

Well, it's end of the semester here, so things are kind of crazy. I did
notice though there was an article on Rogue on Gamasutra:

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/4013/the_history_of_rogue_have__you_.php

-Devin

On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 2:39 AM, Andrew Armstrong <andrew at aarmstrong.org>wrote:

> The IGDA wiki is down, thus I've not been able to do the monthly roundup.
> Sorry about this!
>
> Remember though, there's plenty to discuss with the projects. We're kind of
> understaffed, it appears, since most don't have any active interest right
> now, or in fact any disinterest even. It seems I'll have to go out and find
> new members for some of them or start them myself.
>
> Andrew
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>



-- 
Devin Monnens
www.deserthat.com

The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
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From andrew at aarmstrong.org  Wed May  6 11:55:59 2009
From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong)
Date: Wed, 06 May 2009 16:55:59 +0100
Subject: [game_preservation] Monthly update coming...soon
In-Reply-To: <9d1cf2d50905060647r793a7424m51a516342dd1e914@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4A014CCC.2030605@aarmstrong.org>
	<9d1cf2d50905060647r793a7424m51a516342dd1e914@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A01B30F.8040805@aarmstrong.org>

Yeah, some of those articles and others - such as Edge's "Making 
of...Spacewar!" need to get added to the magical database I'm creating, 
heh (well, that I'm still designing). I don't want to post much more in 
the way of "articles on old games" on the blog as I proposed before, 
unless someone is able to help find them :)

Actually, it is worth discussing the games/articles on the mailing list 
though. I should post up some of the more interesting ones.

Andrew

Devin Monnens wrote:
> Well, it's end of the semester here, so things are kind of crazy. I 
> did notice though there was an article on Rogue on Gamasutra:
>
> http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/4013/the_history_of_rogue_have__you_.php
>
> -Devin
>
> On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 2:39 AM, Andrew Armstrong 
> <andrew at aarmstrong.org <mailto:andrew at aarmstrong.org>> wrote:
>
>     The IGDA wiki is down, thus I've not been able to do the monthly
>     roundup. Sorry about this!
>
>     Remember though, there's plenty to discuss with the projects.
>     We're kind of understaffed, it appears, since most don't have any
>     active interest right now, or in fact any disinterest even. It
>     seems I'll have to go out and find new members for some of them or
>     start them myself.
>
>     Andrew
>     _______________________________________________
>     game_preservation mailing list
>     game_preservation at igda.org <mailto:game_preservation at igda.org>
>     http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Devin Monnens
> www.deserthat.com <http://www.deserthat.com>
>
> The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>   
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From dmonnens at gmail.com  Wed May  6 12:09:14 2009
From: dmonnens at gmail.com (Devin Monnens)
Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 10:09:14 -0600
Subject: [game_preservation] Monthly update coming...soon
In-Reply-To: <4A01B30F.8040805@aarmstrong.org>
References: <4A014CCC.2030605@aarmstrong.org>
	<9d1cf2d50905060647r793a7424m51a516342dd1e914@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A01B30F.8040805@aarmstrong.org>
Message-ID: <9d1cf2d50905060909m7bc37654l2c97501bc56d379a@mail.gmail.com>

Edge has a Making of Spacewar article? Is that original or is it just a
republication of the one in Supercade? That article has been around in
various forms for awhile, and of course there's the old Stone article. I
can't imagine there would be anything new to say about Spacewar in a gaming
mag that hasn't been said already... That said, I still think there's more
to say about Spacewar, but it ultimately involves more research (hence my
interest in game software on mainframe computers :)

-Devin

On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 9:55 AM, Andrew Armstrong <andrew at aarmstrong.org>wrote:

>  Yeah, some of those articles and others - such as Edge's "Making
> of...Spacewar!" need to get added to the magical database I'm creating, heh
> (well, that I'm still designing). I don't want to post much more in the way
> of "articles on old games" on the blog as I proposed before, unless someone
> is able to help find them :)
>
> Actually, it is worth discussing the games/articles on the mailing list
> though. I should post up some of the more interesting ones.
>
> Andrew
>
> Devin Monnens wrote:
>
> Well, it's end of the semester here, so things are kind of crazy. I did
> notice though there was an article on Rogue on Gamasutra:
>
>
> http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/4013/the_history_of_rogue_have__you_.php
>
> -Devin
>
> On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 2:39 AM, Andrew Armstrong <andrew at aarmstrong.org>wrote:
>
>> The IGDA wiki is down, thus I've not been able to do the monthly roundup.
>> Sorry about this!
>>
>> Remember though, there's plenty to discuss with the projects. We're kind
>> of understaffed, it appears, since most don't have any active interest right
>> now, or in fact any disinterest even. It seems I'll have to go out and find
>> new members for some of them or start them myself.
>>
>> Andrew
>> _______________________________________________
>> game_preservation mailing list
>> game_preservation at igda.org
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Devin Monnens
> www.deserthat.com
>
> The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing listgame_preservation at igda.orghttp://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>
>


-- 
Devin Monnens
www.deserthat.com

The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
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From andrew at aarmstrong.org  Wed May  6 13:26:45 2009
From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong)
Date: Wed, 06 May 2009 18:26:45 +0100
Subject: [game_preservation] Monthly update coming...soon
In-Reply-To: <9d1cf2d50905060909m7bc37654l2c97501bc56d379a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4A014CCC.2030605@aarmstrong.org>	<9d1cf2d50905060647r793a7424m51a516342dd1e914@mail.gmail.com>	<4A01B30F.8040805@aarmstrong.org>
	<9d1cf2d50905060909m7bc37654l2c97501bc56d379a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A01C855.1070404@aarmstrong.org>

It says, at the end of it, that it is a shorter version (for some 
reason?) from Edge 112. Also, If it's one thing Edge does fabously, it 
is hide the author, the editor, and any revisions, and I've not got any 
Edge magazines to check side by side comparisons. Here it is:

http://www.edge-online.com/magazine/the-making-of-spacewar

Andrew

Devin Monnens wrote:
> Edge has a Making of Spacewar article? Is that original or is it just 
> a republication of the one in Supercade? That article has been around 
> in various forms for awhile, and of course there's the old Stone 
> article. I can't imagine there would be anything new to say about 
> Spacewar in a gaming mag that hasn't been said already... That said, I 
> still think there's more to say about Spacewar, but it ultimately 
> involves more research (hence my interest in game software on 
> mainframe computers :)
>
> -Devin
>
> On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 9:55 AM, Andrew Armstrong 
> <andrew at aarmstrong.org <mailto:andrew at aarmstrong.org>> wrote:
>
>     Yeah, some of those articles and others - such as Edge's "Making
>     of...Spacewar!" need to get added to the magical database I'm
>     creating, heh (well, that I'm still designing). I don't want to
>     post much more in the way of "articles on old games" on the blog
>     as I proposed before, unless someone is able to help find them :)
>
>     Actually, it is worth discussing the games/articles on the mailing
>     list though. I should post up some of the more interesting ones.
>
>     Andrew
>
>     Devin Monnens wrote:
>>     Well, it's end of the semester here, so things are kind of crazy.
>>     I did notice though there was an article on Rogue on Gamasutra:
>>
>>     http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/4013/the_history_of_rogue_have__you_.php
>>
>>     -Devin
>>
>>     On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 2:39 AM, Andrew Armstrong
>>     <andrew at aarmstrong.org <mailto:andrew at aarmstrong.org>> wrote:
>>
>>         The IGDA wiki is down, thus I've not been able to do the
>>         monthly roundup. Sorry about this!
>>
>>         Remember though, there's plenty to discuss with the projects.
>>         We're kind of understaffed, it appears, since most don't have
>>         any active interest right now, or in fact any disinterest
>>         even. It seems I'll have to go out and find new members for
>>         some of them or start them myself.
>>
>>         Andrew
>>         _______________________________________________
>>         game_preservation mailing list
>>         game_preservation at igda.org <mailto:game_preservation at igda.org>
>>         http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>     -- 
>>     Devin Monnens
>>     www.deserthat.com <http://www.deserthat.com>
>>
>>     The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
>>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>     _______________________________________________ game_preservation
>>     mailing list game_preservation at igda.org
>>     <mailto:game_preservation at igda.org>
>>     http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     game_preservation mailing list
>     game_preservation at igda.org <mailto:game_preservation at igda.org>
>     http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Devin Monnens
> www.deserthat.com <http://www.deserthat.com>
>
> The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>   
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From dmonnens at gmail.com  Wed May  6 13:47:23 2009
From: dmonnens at gmail.com (Devin Monnens)
Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 11:47:23 -0600
Subject: [game_preservation] Today I Die is out!
Message-ID: <9d1cf2d50905061047v178a65akff9b811a8694f435@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry this is a little off-topic (aside from the games part). Daniel
Benmergui has finally released Today I Die. Go and play it RIGHT NOW.

http://ludomancy.com/games/today.html

-- 
Devin Monnens
www.deserthat.com

The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
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From lowood at stanford.edu  Wed May  6 16:50:49 2009
From: lowood at stanford.edu (Henry Lowood)
Date: Wed, 06 May 2009 13:50:49 -0700
Subject: [game_preservation] Monthly update coming...soon
In-Reply-To: <9d1cf2d50905060909m7bc37654l2c97501bc56d379a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4A014CCC.2030605@aarmstrong.org>	<9d1cf2d50905060647r793a7424m51a516342dd1e914@mail.gmail.com>	<4A01B30F.8040805@aarmstrong.org>
	<9d1cf2d50905060909m7bc37654l2c97501bc56d379a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A01F829.7080308@stanford.edu>

Ouch, that hurt, Devin!  I just completed an article for IEEE Annals in 
the History of Computing on the relationship between Spacewar! and 
Pong.   Actually, there isn't much out there on Spacewar!  A helpful 
piece in Edge recently was the piece by Leonard Herman (though, look 
hard for the attibution) on Ted Dabney.

Henry

Devin Monnens wrote:
> Edge has a Making of Spacewar article? Is that original or is it just 
> a republication of the one in Supercade? That article has been around 
> in various forms for awhile, and of course there's the old Stone 
> article. I can't imagine there would be anything new to say about 
> Spacewar in a gaming mag that hasn't been said already... That said, I 
> still think there's more to say about Spacewar, but it ultimately 
> involves more research (hence my interest in game software on 
> mainframe computers :)
>
> -Devin
>
> On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 9:55 AM, Andrew Armstrong 
> <andrew at aarmstrong.org <mailto:andrew at aarmstrong.org>> wrote:
>
>     Yeah, some of those articles and others - such as Edge's "Making
>     of...Spacewar!" need to get added to the magical database I'm
>     creating, heh (well, that I'm still designing). I don't want to
>     post much more in the way of "articles on old games" on the blog
>     as I proposed before, unless someone is able to help find them :)
>
>     Actually, it is worth discussing the games/articles on the mailing
>     list though. I should post up some of the more interesting ones.
>
>     Andrew
>
>     Devin Monnens wrote:
>>     Well, it's end of the semester here, so things are kind of crazy.
>>     I did notice though there was an article on Rogue on Gamasutra:
>>
>>     http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/4013/the_history_of_rogue_have__you_.php
>>
>>     -Devin
>>
>>     On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 2:39 AM, Andrew Armstrong
>>     <andrew at aarmstrong.org <mailto:andrew at aarmstrong.org>> wrote:
>>
>>         The IGDA wiki is down, thus I've not been able to do the
>>         monthly roundup. Sorry about this!
>>
>>         Remember though, there's plenty to discuss with the projects.
>>         We're kind of understaffed, it appears, since most don't have
>>         any active interest right now, or in fact any disinterest
>>         even. It seems I'll have to go out and find new members for
>>         some of them or start them myself.
>>
>>         Andrew
>>         _______________________________________________
>>         game_preservation mailing list
>>         game_preservation at igda.org <mailto:game_preservation at igda.org>
>>         http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>     -- 
>>     Devin Monnens
>>     www.deserthat.com <http://www.deserthat.com>
>>
>>     The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
>>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>     _______________________________________________ game_preservation
>>     mailing list game_preservation at igda.org
>>     <mailto:game_preservation at igda.org>
>>     http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     game_preservation mailing list
>     game_preservation at igda.org <mailto:game_preservation at igda.org>
>     http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Devin Monnens
> www.deserthat.com <http://www.deserthat.com>
>
> The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>   

-- 
Henry Lowood
Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections;
     Film & Media Collections
HRG, Green Library
557 Escondido Mall, Stanford University Libraries
Stanford CA 94305-6004 USA
http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood
lowood at stanford.edu; 650-723-4602

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From guttenbrunner at ifs.tuwien.ac.at  Wed May  6 17:09:46 2009
From: guttenbrunner at ifs.tuwien.ac.at (Mark Guttenbrunner)
Date: Wed, 06 May 2009 23:09:46 +0200
Subject: [game_preservation] Today I Die is out!
In-Reply-To: <9d1cf2d50905061047v178a65akff9b811a8694f435@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9d1cf2d50905061047v178a65akff9b811a8694f435@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A01FC9A.7090007@ifs.tuwien.ac.at>

amazing game ... just finished it ...

Is it just me or is there a huge trend towards "art games" in the last 
few month?

Mark

Devin Monnens schrieb:
> Sorry this is a little off-topic (aside from the games part). Daniel 
> Benmergui has finally released Today I Die. Go and play it RIGHT NOW.
>
> http://ludomancy.com/games/today.html
>
> -- 
> Devin Monnens
> www.deserthat.com <http://www.deserthat.com>
>
> The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>   


From gshonk at gmail.com  Wed May  6 18:53:48 2009
From: gshonk at gmail.com (Grant Shonkwiler)
Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 18:53:48 -0400
Subject: [game_preservation] Today I Die is out!
In-Reply-To: <4A01FC9A.7090007@ifs.tuwien.ac.at>
References: <9d1cf2d50905061047v178a65akff9b811a8694f435@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A01FC9A.7090007@ifs.tuwien.ac.at>
Message-ID: <8f4d2de10905061553u93c7b1fv16ba66198e6f3d6c@mail.gmail.com>

Hi I'm Grant Shonkwiler, I know I'm new to this SIG but I just wanted to
comment on how amazing this game is. Also yes Mark there is a new rise in
"art house games", I for one am loving them. :)
Grant

On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 5:09 PM, Mark Guttenbrunner <
guttenbrunner at ifs.tuwien.ac.at> wrote:

> amazing game ... just finished it ...
>
> Is it just me or is there a huge trend towards "art games" in the last few
> month?
>
> Mark
>
> Devin Monnens schrieb:
>
>> Sorry this is a little off-topic (aside from the games part). Daniel
>> Benmergui has finally released Today I Die. Go and play it RIGHT NOW.
>>
>> http://ludomancy.com/games/today.html
>>
>> --
>> Devin Monnens
>> www.deserthat.com <http://www.deserthat.com>
>>
>> The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> game_preservation mailing list
>> game_preservation at igda.org
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>
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From stuart.feldhamer at gmail.com  Wed May  6 22:04:20 2009
From: stuart.feldhamer at gmail.com (Stuart Feldhamer)
Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 22:04:20 -0400
Subject: [game_preservation] Today I Die is out!
In-Reply-To: <9d1cf2d50905061047v178a65akff9b811a8694f435@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9d1cf2d50905061047v178a65akff9b811a8694f435@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4a0241a5.c6c1f10a.3d69.2601@mx.google.com>

Uh.. I don't get it.

 

Stuart

 

From: game_preservation-bounces at igda.org
[mailto:game_preservation-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Devin Monnens
Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2009 1:47 PM
Cc: women_dev at igda.org; IGDA Game Preservation SIG
Subject: [game_preservation] Today I Die is out!

 

Sorry this is a little off-topic (aside from the games part). Daniel
Benmergui has finally released Today I Die. Go and play it RIGHT NOW.

http://ludomancy.com/games/today.html

-- 
Devin Monnens
www.deserthat.com

The sleep of Reason produces monsters.

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From lowood at stanford.edu  Wed May  6 22:17:13 2009
From: lowood at stanford.edu (Henry Lowood)
Date: Wed, 06 May 2009 19:17:13 -0700
Subject: [game_preservation] Today I Die is out!
In-Reply-To: <4a0241a5.c6c1f10a.3d69.2601@mx.google.com>
References: <9d1cf2d50905061047v178a65akff9b811a8694f435@mail.gmail.com>
	<4a0241a5.c6c1f10a.3d69.2601@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <4A0244A9.9010009@stanford.edu>

I hate to admit it, but I'm with Stuart on this.  Henry

Stuart Feldhamer wrote:
>
> Uh.... I don't get it.
>
>  
>
> Stuart
>
>  
>
> *From:* game_preservation-bounces at igda.org 
> [mailto:game_preservation-bounces at igda.org] *On Behalf Of *Devin Monnens
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 06, 2009 1:47 PM
> *Cc:* women_dev at igda.org; IGDA Game Preservation SIG
> *Subject:* [game_preservation] Today I Die is out!
>
>  
>
> Sorry this is a little off-topic (aside from the games part). Daniel 
> Benmergui has finally released Today I Die. Go and play it RIGHT NOW.
>
> http://ludomancy.com/games/today.html
>
> -- 
> Devin Monnens
> www.deserthat.com <http://www.deserthat.com>
>
> The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>   

-- 
Henry Lowood
Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections;
     Film & Media Collections
HRG, Green Library
557 Escondido Mall, Stanford University Libraries
Stanford CA 94305-6004 USA
http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood
lowood at stanford.edu; 650-723-4602

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From stuart.feldhamer at gmail.com  Wed May  6 22:28:50 2009
From: stuart.feldhamer at gmail.com (Stuart Feldhamer)
Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 22:28:50 -0400
Subject: [game_preservation] Today I Die is out!
In-Reply-To: <4A0244A9.9010009@stanford.edu>
References: <9d1cf2d50905061047v178a65akff9b811a8694f435@mail.gmail.com>
	<4a0241a5.c6c1f10a.3d69.2601@mx.google.com>
	<4A0244A9.9010009@stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <4a024763.04035a0a.435d.fffff66c@mx.google.com>

Well, I gave it another chance, and got a 4th line of text to appear? Did I
"win"?

 

Stuart

 

From: Henry Lowood [mailto:lowood at stanford.edu] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2009 10:17 PM
To: stuart at feldhamer.com; IGDA Game Preservation SIG
Subject: Re: [game_preservation] Today I Die is out!

 

I hate to admit it, but I'm with Stuart on this.  Henry

Stuart Feldhamer wrote: 

Uh.. I don't get it.

 

Stuart

 

From: game_preservation-bounces at igda.org
[mailto:game_preservation-bounces at igda.org] On Behalf Of Devin Monnens
Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2009 1:47 PM
Cc: women_dev at igda.org; IGDA Game Preservation SIG
Subject: [game_preservation] Today I Die is out!

 

Sorry this is a little off-topic (aside from the games part). Daniel
Benmergui has finally released Today I Die. Go and play it RIGHT NOW.

http://ludomancy.com/games/today.html

-- 
Devin Monnens
www.deserthat.com

The sleep of Reason produces monsters.

 



  _____  



 
_______________________________________________
game_preservation mailing list
game_preservation at igda.org
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
  





-- 
Henry Lowood
Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections;
     Film & Media Collections
HRG, Green Library
557 Escondido Mall, Stanford University Libraries
Stanford CA 94305-6004 USA
http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood
lowood at stanford.edu; 650-723-4602
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From dmonnens at gmail.com  Wed May  6 22:52:39 2009
From: dmonnens at gmail.com (Devin Monnens)
Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 20:52:39 -0600
Subject: [game_preservation] Today I Die is out!
In-Reply-To: <4a024763.04035a0a.435d.fffff66c@mx.google.com>
References: <9d1cf2d50905061047v178a65akff9b811a8694f435@mail.gmail.com>
	<4a0241a5.c6c1f10a.3d69.2601@mx.google.com>
	<4A0244A9.9010009@stanford.edu>
	<4a024763.04035a0a.435d.fffff66c@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <9d1cf2d50905061952v345985dak5cebebb0a217999a@mail.gmail.com>

Today I Die is a game presentation of a poem. The format of how the game
progresses resembles puzzle games, but I don't think the focus is so much on
how to 'win' the game as it is how you react to it. The final state of the
game (four lines of text and a background) is merely one part of the poem,
much as different scenes are to a film. One result of the puzzle-like form
of the game I feel is that you can have a more intimate analysis of each
part of the poem, almost as if the format makes it easier to contemplate
what each word means and how it affects the text.

If the game has a multiple-ending format like I Wish I Were the Moon or I
Fell in Love with the Majesty of Colors, a result of this seems to be that
it makes it easier to think about how to find all the endings as a goal in
itself. Though of course finding each ending can give you a sense of
surprise and discovery at the unexpected outcome. Achieving the goal and
figuring out how to solve the problem is something that games are pretty
good at, but as a result that's often how we first begin to approach a game.
(Interestingly, if your computer runs very slow, Majesty of Colors gives you
a completely different experience than if it runs at full speed!).

Ultimately though, there's no 'right' way to respond to the game, just as
there's really no 'right' way to play a game, read a book, or look at a
painting (as much as 'connoisseurship' might suggest). As a result, maybe
it's more about what you're looking for or looking to get out of the work
than what the author or critic 'wants' you to get.

On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 8:28 PM, Stuart Feldhamer <stuart.feldhamer at gmail.com
> wrote:

>  Well, I gave it another chance, and got a 4th line of text to appear? Did
> I ?win??
>
>
>
> Stuart
>
>
>
> *From:* Henry Lowood [mailto:lowood at stanford.edu]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 06, 2009 10:17 PM
> *To:* stuart at feldhamer.com; IGDA Game Preservation SIG
> *Subject:* Re: [game_preservation] Today I Die is out!
>
>
>
> I hate to admit it, but I'm with Stuart on this.  Henry
>
> Stuart Feldhamer wrote:
>
> Uh?. I don?t get it.
>
>
>
> Stuart
>
>
>
> *From:* game_preservation-bounces at igda.org [
> mailto:game_preservation-bounces at igda.org<game_preservation-bounces at igda.org>]
> *On Behalf Of *Devin Monnens
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 06, 2009 1:47 PM
> *Cc:* women_dev at igda.org; IGDA Game Preservation SIG
> *Subject:* [game_preservation] Today I Die is out!
>
>
>
> Sorry this is a little off-topic (aside from the games part). Daniel
> Benmergui has finally released Today I Die. Go and play it RIGHT NOW.
>
> http://ludomancy.com/games/today.html
>
> --
> Devin Monnens
> www.deserthat.com
>
> The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> game_preservation mailing list
>
> game_preservation at igda.org
>
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>
>
>
>
>
>  --
>
> Henry Lowood
>
> Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections;
>
>      Film & Media Collections
>
> HRG, Green Library
>
> 557 Escondido Mall, Stanford University Libraries
>
> Stanford CA 94305-6004 USA
>
> http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood <http://www.stanford.edu/%7Elowood>
>
> lowood at stanford.edu; 650-723-4602
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>
>


-- 
Devin Monnens
www.deserthat.com

The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
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From lowood at stanford.edu  Wed May  6 23:10:25 2009
From: lowood at stanford.edu (Henry Lowood)
Date: Wed, 06 May 2009 20:10:25 -0700
Subject: [game_preservation] Today I Die is out!
In-Reply-To: <9d1cf2d50905061952v345985dak5cebebb0a217999a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9d1cf2d50905061047v178a65akff9b811a8694f435@mail.gmail.com>	<4a0241a5.c6c1f10a.3d69.2601@mx.google.com>	<4A0244A9.9010009@stanford.edu>	<4a024763.04035a0a.435d.fffff66c@mx.google.com>
	<9d1cf2d50905061952v345985dak5cebebb0a217999a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A025121.7000101@stanford.edu>

Devin,

from my perspective, this is more a work of e-literature than a game.   
I'm not really seeing a ludic aspect here.

Henry

Devin Monnens wrote:
> Today I Die is a game presentation of a poem. The format of how the 
> game progresses resembles puzzle games, but I don't think the focus is 
> so much on how to 'win' the game as it is how you react to it. The 
> final state of the game (four lines of text and a background) is 
> merely one part of the poem, much as different scenes are to a film. 
> One result of the puzzle-like form of the game I feel is that you can 
> have a more intimate analysis of each part of the poem, almost as if 
> the format makes it easier to contemplate what each word means and how 
> it affects the text.
>
> If the game has a multiple-ending format like I Wish I Were the Moon 
> or I Fell in Love with the Majesty of Colors, a result of this seems 
> to be that it makes it easier to think about how to find all the 
> endings as a goal in itself. Though of course finding each ending can 
> give you a sense of surprise and discovery at the unexpected outcome. 
> Achieving the goal and figuring out how to solve the problem is 
> something that games are pretty good at, but as a result that's often 
> how we first begin to approach a game. (Interestingly, if your 
> computer runs very slow, Majesty of Colors gives you a completely 
> different experience than if it runs at full speed!).
>
> Ultimately though, there's no 'right' way to respond to the game, just 
> as there's really no 'right' way to play a game, read a book, or look 
> at a painting (as much as 'connoisseurship' might suggest). As a 
> result, maybe it's more about what you're looking for or looking to 
> get out of the work than what the author or critic 'wants' you to get.
>
> On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 8:28 PM, Stuart Feldhamer 
> <stuart.feldhamer at gmail.com <mailto:stuart.feldhamer at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     Well, I gave it another chance, and got a 4^th line of text to
>     appear? Did I ?win??
>
>      
>
>     Stuart
>
>      
>
>     *From:* Henry Lowood [mailto:lowood at stanford.edu
>     <mailto:lowood at stanford.edu>]
>     *Sent:* Wednesday, May 06, 2009 10:17 PM
>     *To:* stuart at feldhamer.com <mailto:stuart at feldhamer.com>; IGDA
>     Game Preservation SIG
>     *Subject:* Re: [game_preservation] Today I Die is out!
>
>      
>
>     I hate to admit it, but I'm with Stuart on this.  Henry
>
>     Stuart Feldhamer wrote:
>
>     Uh?. I don?t get it.
>
>      
>
>     Stuart
>
>      
>
>     *From:* game_preservation-bounces at igda.org
>     <mailto:game_preservation-bounces at igda.org>
>     [mailto:game_preservation-bounces at igda.org] *On Behalf Of *Devin
>     Monnens
>     *Sent:* Wednesday, May 06, 2009 1:47 PM
>     *Cc:* women_dev at igda.org <mailto:women_dev at igda.org>; IGDA Game
>     Preservation SIG
>     *Subject:* [game_preservation] Today I Die is out!
>
>      
>
>     Sorry this is a little off-topic (aside from the games part).
>     Daniel Benmergui has finally released Today I Die. Go and play it
>     RIGHT NOW.
>
>     http://ludomancy.com/games/today.html
>
>     -- 
>     Devin Monnens
>     www.deserthat.com <http://www.deserthat.com>
>
>     The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
>
>      
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>         
>
>      
>
>     _______________________________________________
>
>     game_preservation mailing list
>
>     game_preservation at igda.org <mailto:game_preservation at igda.org>
>
>     http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>
>       
>
>
>
>     -- 
>
>     Henry Lowood
>
>     Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections;
>
>          Film & Media Collections
>
>     HRG, Green Library
>
>     557 Escondido Mall, Stanford University Libraries
>
>     Stanford CA 94305-6004 USA
>
>     http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood <http://www.stanford.edu/%7Elowood>
>
>     lowood at stanford.edu <mailto:lowood at stanford.edu>; 650-723-4602
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     game_preservation mailing list
>     game_preservation at igda.org <mailto:game_preservation at igda.org>
>     http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Devin Monnens
> www.deserthat.com <http://www.deserthat.com>
>
> The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>   

-- 
Henry Lowood
Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections;
     Film & Media Collections
HRG, Green Library
557 Escondido Mall, Stanford University Libraries
Stanford CA 94305-6004 USA
http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood
lowood at stanford.edu; 650-723-4602

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From dmonnens at gmail.com  Wed May  6 23:10:49 2009
From: dmonnens at gmail.com (Devin Monnens)
Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 21:10:49 -0600
Subject: [game_preservation] Monthly update coming...soon
In-Reply-To: <4A01F829.7080308@stanford.edu>
References: <4A014CCC.2030605@aarmstrong.org>
	<9d1cf2d50905060647r793a7424m51a516342dd1e914@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A01B30F.8040805@aarmstrong.org>
	<9d1cf2d50905060909m7bc37654l2c97501bc56d379a@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A01F829.7080308@stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <9d1cf2d50905062010q4c6850b2hee40c86195e852ea@mail.gmail.com>

Actually, what I meant was that as far as I'm concerned the story behind
Spacewar! has been told already so I often expect very little from history
pieces beyond the Leonard Herman article (which was in Supercade). I feel
most histories tend to simply be chronicles of how something was made or
ultimately a list of works (Steve Kent's book is more interesting in the
origins chapters not from what is being said but who is saying it and more
importantly *how *they're saying it). Because gamers often have no memory or
recollection of the past (as in 'anything they haven't played'), it's very
common for information to suddenly appear and be presented as 'brand new!!!'
when people have actually known about it for years (often without regard for
those sources). Nostalgia articles, if they're good, capitalize on the
memories of gamers by revisiting them and hopefully providing something new
(though often in the way of valorizing the game).

I tend to think more in-depth history is about asking questions and giving
us new ways of interpreting the past. So I would see a comparison of
Spacewar! and Pong as doing something new rather than just retelling old
stories.

Then again, my interests have made me somewhat pessimistic and eccentric.
I'm afraid that has turned me into something of a salty critic.

-Devin

On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 2:50 PM, Henry Lowood <lowood at stanford.edu> wrote:

>  Ouch, that hurt, Devin!  I just completed an article for IEEE Annals in
> the History of Computing on the relationship between Spacewar! and Pong.
> Actually, there isn't much out there on Spacewar!  A helpful piece in Edge
> recently was the piece by Leonard Herman (though, look hard for the
> attibution) on Ted Dabney.
>
> Henry
>
> Devin Monnens wrote:
>
> Edge has a Making of Spacewar article? Is that original or is it just a
> republication of the one in Supercade? That article has been around in
> various forms for awhile, and of course there's the old Stone article. I
> can't imagine there would be anything new to say about Spacewar in a gaming
> mag that hasn't been said already... That said, I still think there's more
> to say about Spacewar, but it ultimately involves more research (hence my
> interest in game software on mainframe computers :)
>
> -Devin
>
> On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 9:55 AM, Andrew Armstrong <andrew at aarmstrong.org>wrote:
>
>> Yeah, some of those articles and others - such as Edge's "Making
>> of...Spacewar!" need to get added to the magical database I'm creating, heh
>> (well, that I'm still designing). I don't want to post much more in the way
>> of "articles on old games" on the blog as I proposed before, unless someone
>> is able to help find them :)
>>
>> Actually, it is worth discussing the games/articles on the mailing list
>> though. I should post up some of the more interesting ones.
>>
>> Andrew
>>
>> Devin Monnens wrote:
>>
>>  Well, it's end of the semester here, so things are kind of crazy. I did
>> notice though there was an article on Rogue on Gamasutra:
>>
>>
>> http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/4013/the_history_of_rogue_have__you_.php
>>
>> -Devin
>>
>> On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 2:39 AM, Andrew Armstrong <andrew at aarmstrong.org>wrote:
>>
>>> The IGDA wiki is down, thus I've not been able to do the monthly roundup.
>>> Sorry about this!
>>>
>>> Remember though, there's plenty to discuss with the projects. We're kind
>>> of understaffed, it appears, since most don't have any active interest right
>>> now, or in fact any disinterest even. It seems I'll have to go out and find
>>> new members for some of them or start them myself.
>>>
>>> Andrew
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> game_preservation mailing list
>>> game_preservation at igda.org
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Devin Monnens
>> www.deserthat.com
>>
>> The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> game_preservation mailing listgame_preservation at igda.orghttp://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> game_preservation mailing list
>> game_preservation at igda.org
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Devin Monnens
> www.deserthat.com
>
> The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing listgame_preservation at igda.orghttp://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>
>
> --
> Henry Lowood
> Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections;
>      Film & Media Collections
> HRG, Green Library
> 557 Escondido Mall, Stanford University Libraries
> Stanford CA 94305-6004 USAhttp://www.stanford.edu/~lowood <http://www.stanford.edu/%7Elowood>lowood at stanford.edu; 650-723-4602
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>
>


-- 
Devin Monnens
www.deserthat.com

The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
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From andrew at aarmstrong.org  Thu May  7 06:41:44 2009
From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong)
Date: Thu, 07 May 2009 11:41:44 +0100
Subject: [game_preservation] Monthly update coming...soon
In-Reply-To: <9d1cf2d50905062010q4c6850b2hee40c86195e852ea@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4A014CCC.2030605@aarmstrong.org>	<9d1cf2d50905060647r793a7424m51a516342dd1e914@mail.gmail.com>	<4A01B30F.8040805@aarmstrong.org>	<9d1cf2d50905060909m7bc37654l2c97501bc56d379a@mail.gmail.com>	<4A01F829.7080308@stanford.edu>
	<9d1cf2d50905062010q4c6850b2hee40c86195e852ea@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A02BAE8.1030705@aarmstrong.org>

There is very little on the comparison of old games. A lot of things 
are, like you said, just "Making Of", not "What happened when it was 
actually made and released" - there is usually a little "why" in making 
of's but not much.

Andrew

Devin Monnens wrote:
> Actually, what I meant was that as far as I'm concerned the story 
> behind Spacewar! has been told already so I often expect very little 
> from history pieces beyond the Leonard Herman article (which was in 
> Supercade). I feel most histories tend to simply be chronicles of how 
> something was made or ultimately a list of works (Steve Kent's book is 
> more interesting in the origins chapters not from what is being said 
> but who is saying it and more importantly /how /they're saying it). 
> Because gamers often have no memory or recollection of the past (as in 
> 'anything they haven't played'), it's very common for information to 
> suddenly appear and be presented as 'brand new!!!' when people have 
> actually known about it for years (often without regard for those 
> sources). Nostalgia articles, if they're good, capitalize on the 
> memories of gamers by revisiting them and hopefully providing 
> something new (though often in the way of valorizing the game).
>
> I tend to think more in-depth history is about asking questions and 
> giving us new ways of interpreting the past. So I would see a 
> comparison of Spacewar! and Pong as doing something new rather than 
> just retelling old stories.
>
> Then again, my interests have made me somewhat pessimistic and 
> eccentric. I'm afraid that has turned me into something of a salty critic.
>
> -Devin
>
> On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 2:50 PM, Henry Lowood <lowood at stanford.edu 
> <mailto:lowood at stanford.edu>> wrote:
>
>     Ouch, that hurt, Devin!  I just completed an article for IEEE
>     Annals in the History of Computing on the relationship between
>     Spacewar! and Pong.   Actually, there isn't much out there on
>     Spacewar!  A helpful piece in Edge recently was the piece by
>     Leonard Herman (though, look hard for the attibution) on Ted Dabney.
>
>     Henry
>
>     Devin Monnens wrote:
>>     Edge has a Making of Spacewar article? Is that original or is it
>>     just a republication of the one in Supercade? That article has
>>     been around in various forms for awhile, and of course there's
>>     the old Stone article. I can't imagine there would be anything
>>     new to say about Spacewar in a gaming mag that hasn't been said
>>     already... That said, I still think there's more to say about
>>     Spacewar, but it ultimately involves more research (hence my
>>     interest in game software on mainframe computers :)
>>
>>     -Devin
>>
>>     On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 9:55 AM, Andrew Armstrong
>>     <andrew at aarmstrong.org <mailto:andrew at aarmstrong.org>> wrote:
>>
>>         Yeah, some of those articles and others - such as Edge's
>>         "Making of...Spacewar!" need to get added to the magical
>>         database I'm creating, heh (well, that I'm still designing).
>>         I don't want to post much more in the way of "articles on old
>>         games" on the blog as I proposed before, unless someone is
>>         able to help find them :)
>>
>>         Actually, it is worth discussing the games/articles on the
>>         mailing list though. I should post up some of the more
>>         interesting ones.
>>
>>         Andrew
>>
>>         Devin Monnens wrote:
>>>         Well, it's end of the semester here, so things are kind of
>>>         crazy. I did notice though there was an article on Rogue on
>>>         Gamasutra:
>>>
>>>         http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/4013/the_history_of_rogue_have__you_.php
>>>
>>>         -Devin
>>>
>>>         On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 2:39 AM, Andrew Armstrong
>>>         <andrew at aarmstrong.org <mailto:andrew at aarmstrong.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>>             The IGDA wiki is down, thus I've not been able to do the
>>>             monthly roundup. Sorry about this!
>>>
>>>             Remember though, there's plenty to discuss with the
>>>             projects. We're kind of understaffed, it appears, since
>>>             most don't have any active interest right now, or in
>>>             fact any disinterest even. It seems I'll have to go out
>>>             and find new members for some of them or start them myself.
>>>
>>>             Andrew
>>>             _______________________________________________
>>>             game_preservation mailing list
>>>             game_preservation at igda.org
>>>             <mailto:game_preservation at igda.org>
>>>             http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>         -- 
>>>         Devin Monnens
>>>         www.deserthat.com <http://www.deserthat.com>
>>>
>>>         The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
>>>         ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>         _______________________________________________
>>>         game_preservation mailing list game_preservation at igda.org
>>>         <mailto:game_preservation at igda.org>
>>>         http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>>
>>         _______________________________________________
>>         game_preservation mailing list
>>         game_preservation at igda.org <mailto:game_preservation at igda.org>
>>         http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>     -- 
>>     Devin Monnens
>>     www.deserthat.com <http://www.deserthat.com>
>>
>>     The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
>>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>     _______________________________________________ game_preservation
>>     mailing list game_preservation at igda.org
>>     <mailto:game_preservation at igda.org>
>>     http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>
>     -- 
>     Henry Lowood
>     Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections;
>          Film & Media Collections
>     HRG, Green Library
>     557 Escondido Mall, Stanford University Libraries
>     Stanford CA 94305-6004 USA
>     http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood <http://www.stanford.edu/%7Elowood>
>     lowood at stanford.edu <mailto:lowood at stanford.edu>; 650-723-4602
>         
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     game_preservation mailing list
>     game_preservation at igda.org <mailto:game_preservation at igda.org>
>     http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Devin Monnens
> www.deserthat.com <http://www.deserthat.com>
>
> The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>   
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From dmonnens at gmail.com  Sun May 10 19:39:10 2009
From: dmonnens at gmail.com (Devin Monnens)
Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 17:39:10 -0600
Subject: [game_preservation] Super Mario Movie
Message-ID: <9d1cf2d50905101639p5db79513wb73404f63f5e6970@mail.gmail.com>

This is not the Super Mario Bros. Movie but the Super Mario Movie by Cory
Arcangel and Paper Rad. It is about a videogame world deteriorating as the
software decays. It's oddly relevant to preservation for that reason, even
though it's discussing the breakdown of software and the code beneath:
http://www.beigerecords.com/cory/Things_I_Made/SuperMarioMovie

-- 
Devin Monnens
www.deserthat.com

The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
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From andrew at aarmstrong.org  Tue May 12 06:30:17 2009
From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong)
Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 11:30:17 +0100
Subject: [game_preservation] [Monthly SIG Roundup] May 2009
Message-ID: <4A094FB9.2060003@aarmstrong.org>

In the previous month we're trying to restart some of the projects the 
SIG wants to run. Hopefully anyone who is interested can get involved!


      Preservation SIG April 2009 Work

The projects listed on our front wiki page 
<http://www.igda.org/wiki/Game_Preservation_SIG> have been put forward 
on the mailing list to get volunteers and interested people involved. 
Sadly, if there is no action on some fronts the projects will 
indefinitely lie dormant. If you know of anyone outside the SIG who is 
interested in videogame preservation and can lend a hand, please invite 
them!

The Memorials project <http://www.igda.org/wiki/Memorials> has had a few 
updates, both to the layout and to the people added to our records. We 
are looking for biography writers, and also any missing entries, so 
please email memorials -at- igda -dot- org to suggest anything.

Devin Monnens has also started setting up Facebook and LinkedIn 
pages/groups, we'll advertise the links once they're up and running :)


      Future Work for May 2009

Apart from being late doing the roundup (with a mixture of a server 
issue for a week at the start of May and me being busy), so actually 
this is mid-may, there are still things to finish. Among them I intend 
to finally get the last museum I actively know collecting a major amount 
of videogame material which is situated in Japan, and then hope to 
publish the list and start on gathering more detailed information about 
the museums soon.

The projects also need some active work put into them, but this is up to 
the individual project leads. I can help organise things, so give me a 
shout if you're too busy to get specifically started or need some help.

Any unassigned projects also need leads, and all the projects do need 
more help (since no project has more then one person working on it!). 
Please see the main page for basic information and the mailing list 
discussions below:

    * Collectors Information
      <http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/game_preservation/2009-April/001154.html>

    * Emulator Information
      <http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/game_preservation/2009-April/001155.html>

    * Legal Issues/Information
      <http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/game_preservation/2009-April/001156.html>

    * SIG Collaboration
      <http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/game_preservation/2009-April/001157.html>

    * Preservation Standards
      <http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/game_preservation/2009-April/001158.html>

    * Videogame Museums, Archives, Displays and Collections
      (Information)
      <http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/game_preservation/2009-April/001159.html>



      Mailing List Discussions

If you've not joined our mailing list 
<http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation>, please do 
so. We've never tried using our forums it seems :) we stick to 
old-fangled email. This will eventually change when the IGDA site 
changes over - although those wanting email can still get it.

April 
<http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/game_preservation/2009-April/thread.html> 
had discussions on online DRM 
<http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/game_preservation/2009-April/001052.html>, 
Soviet Game Museum 
<http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/game_preservation/2009-April/001125.html>, 
Geocities going under 
<http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/game_preservation/2009-April/001116.html>, 
TV emulation 
<http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/game_preservation/2009-April/001129.html> 
and a massive UK Ebay auction 
<http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/game_preservation/2009-April/001136.html>. 


SIG stuff - GDC roundtable notes 
<http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/game_preservation/2009-April/001067.html>, 
Bibliography Project 
<http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/game_preservation/2009-April/001068.html>, 
Improving the News area 
<http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/game_preservation/2009-April/001082.html>, 
Facebook / LinkedIn pages 
<http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/game_preservation/2009-April/001102.html>, 
and finally a discussion on Our Membership 
<http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/game_preservation/2009-April/001104.html> 
- importantly on who we want to join up in the future.


      Preservation SIG Blog Updates / Links

/Have I missed anything this month? Then email it in to 
preservation_news @ igda.org !/

With me working on the Bibliography project, intended to replace the 
"Linkblog" of old, and the fact this means that there can be 
automatically generated, cross-referenced and accurately sourced 
articles and stories means the current blog will only post 
preservation-related news.

I have, however, fallen behind on this, meaning not much added this 
month, including internal SIG news. I have no idea what the readership 
of the blog is like, but I want to improve this over the coming months - 
by posting SIG project news, and news about emulation, preservation 
projects and museums, and so forth. I'm going to be visiting the Urbis 
in Manchester tonight for the opening of a videogame history and play 
exhibit, which is one of the types of article I hope to link from the blog.

Once the bibliography is up, I'll code up some RSS feed for it, but also 
make a function to be able to linkdump a ton of interesting entries 
people enter that are flagged up as good to publish (being relatively new).

    * Saved Games: Preserving the New TV
      <http://www.igda.org/preservation/archives/2009/04/article_saved_g.html>

    * Frank Herman, Kentaro Haneda
      <http://www.igda.org/preservation/archives/2009/04/memorials_frank.html>



      Final Thoughts

With so many recent videogame companies closing their door, it appears 
history and game preservation isn't really near anyones minds at the 
moment. It's a tad shameful that the only bits of of 3dRealms own 
material is being released by people looking for new jobs rather then by 
the company itself (or letting it be preserved!) - showing they had been 
working, not just doing nothing on the infamously long Duke Nukem 
Forever project. This is one of the best reasons to preserve unfinished 
and incomplete projects, and document the closing of companies in more 
detail. Maybe in the future we'll be able to provide more direct 
assistance in doing this across the world!

Andrew Armstrong

IGDA Game Preservation SIG Site/Blog editor

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From andrew at aarmstrong.org  Tue May 12 06:36:28 2009
From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong)
Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 11:36:28 +0100
Subject: [game_preservation] [Monthly SIG Roundup] May 2009
In-Reply-To: <4A094FB9.2060003@aarmstrong.org>
References: <4A094FB9.2060003@aarmstrong.org>
Message-ID: <4A09512C.2040208@aarmstrong.org>

Extra apology here, I'm sorry this is late. It is a travesty of an 
example when I'm the one touting project work to be done, man I pretty 
much suck at timing this really.

Just in case anyone cares: in what little spare time (besides starting 
the Bibliography website work) I have had I've been deeply playing Mount 
& Blade, which isn't an excuse, just a brilliant game. Also sadly the 
start of the month the IGDA site had issues, which really wants me to 
confirm they do have a backup plan somewhere, hehe :) Next months update 
should be on time, along with some reports from two events I'm visiting 
this month related to videogame preservation.

Luckily at work, Lunchtime is a prime hour for getting this done. :D

Andrew

From dmonnens at gmail.com  Tue May 12 10:43:27 2009
From: dmonnens at gmail.com (Devin Monnens)
Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 08:43:27 -0600
Subject: [game_preservation] [Monthly SIG Roundup] May 2009
In-Reply-To: <4A09512C.2040208@aarmstrong.org>
References: <4A094FB9.2060003@aarmstrong.org> <4A09512C.2040208@aarmstrong.org>
Message-ID: <9d1cf2d50905120743k3b5c2100va08e0514af04da70@mail.gmail.com>

Andrew,

As the Preservation SIG, we should certainly be concerned about the data
archival abilities of the IGDA. Not sure who would be in charge of that to
ask, though...

-Devin Monnens

On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 4:36 AM, Andrew Armstrong <andrew at aarmstrong.org>wrote:

> Extra apology here, I'm sorry this is late. It is a travesty of an example
> when I'm the one touting project work to be done, man I pretty much suck at
> timing this really.
>
> Just in case anyone cares: in what little spare time (besides starting the
> Bibliography website work) I have had I've been deeply playing Mount &
> Blade, which isn't an excuse, just a brilliant game. Also sadly the start of
> the month the IGDA site had issues, which really wants me to confirm they do
> have a backup plan somewhere, hehe :) Next months update should be on time,
> along with some reports from two events I'm visiting this month related to
> videogame preservation.
>
> Luckily at work, Lunchtime is a prime hour for getting this done. :D
>
> Andrew
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>



-- 
Devin Monnens
www.deserthat.com

The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
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From dmonnens at gmail.com  Tue May 12 10:58:29 2009
From: dmonnens at gmail.com (Devin Monnens)
Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 08:58:29 -0600
Subject: [game_preservation] Tomohiro Nishikado Interview
Message-ID: <9d1cf2d50905120758i755d1738l5fabd6af5c4b0b2b@mail.gmail.com>

USA Today has an interview with Tomohiro Nishikado, creator of Space
Invaders. He gives some insight behind the development of the game. Can you
imagine how the gameplay would be different if they had created soldiers
instead of space aliens? And the fact there was such concern over shooting
digital soldiers at the time! His producer would have flipped out if he'd
seen Call of Duty back then...

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/gamehunters/post/2009/05/66479041/1

-- 
Devin Monnens
www.deserthat.com

The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
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From lowood at stanford.edu  Tue May 12 13:24:21 2009
From: lowood at stanford.edu (Henry Lowood)
Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 10:24:21 -0700
Subject: [game_preservation] [Monthly SIG Roundup] May 2009
In-Reply-To: <9d1cf2d50905120743k3b5c2100va08e0514af04da70@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4A094FB9.2060003@aarmstrong.org> <4A09512C.2040208@aarmstrong.org>
	<9d1cf2d50905120743k3b5c2100va08e0514af04da70@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A09B0C5.6080000@stanford.edu>

Devin, Andrew:

You mean the archives of IGDA, not creating an archive at IGDA for 
material from other sources.  Right? 

The former is an important question and something that makes sense for 
our group to look at. The second I would leave to the cultural 
repositories who are building infrastructure for this.  I doubt that 
IGDA will want to invest resources in an historical archive.

Henry



Devin Monnens wrote:
> Andrew,
>
> As the Preservation SIG, we should certainly be concerned about the 
> data archival abilities of the IGDA. Not sure who would be in charge 
> of that to ask, though...
>
> -Devin Monnens
>
> On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 4:36 AM, Andrew Armstrong 
> <andrew at aarmstrong.org <mailto:andrew at aarmstrong.org>> wrote:
>
>     Extra apology here, I'm sorry this is late. It is a travesty of an
>     example when I'm the one touting project work to be done, man I
>     pretty much suck at timing this really.
>
>     Just in case anyone cares: in what little spare time (besides
>     starting the Bibliography website work) I have had I've been
>     deeply playing Mount & Blade, which isn't an excuse, just a
>     brilliant game. Also sadly the start of the month the IGDA site
>     had issues, which really wants me to confirm they do have a backup
>     plan somewhere, hehe :) Next months update should be on time,
>     along with some reports from two events I'm visiting this month
>     related to videogame preservation.
>
>     Luckily at work, Lunchtime is a prime hour for getting this done. :D
>
>     Andrew
>     _______________________________________________
>     game_preservation mailing list
>     game_preservation at igda.org <mailto:game_preservation at igda.org>
>     http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Devin Monnens
> www.deserthat.com <http://www.deserthat.com>
>
> The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>   

-- 
Henry Lowood, Ph.D.
Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections;
 Film & Media Collections
HRG, Green Library, 557 Escondido Mall
Stanford University Libraries
Stanford CA 94305-6004
650-723-4602; lowood at stanford.edu; http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood 
<http://www.stanford.edu/%7Elowood>
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From andrew at aarmstrong.org  Wed May 13 07:10:47 2009
From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong)
Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 12:10:47 +0100
Subject: [game_preservation] [Monthly SIG Roundup] May 2009
In-Reply-To: <4A09B0C5.6080000@stanford.edu>
References: <4A094FB9.2060003@aarmstrong.org>
	<4A09512C.2040208@aarmstrong.org>	<9d1cf2d50905120743k3b5c2100va08e0514af04da70@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A09B0C5.6080000@stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <4A0AAAB7.8070608@aarmstrong.org>

Certainly the former, the IGDA's own backups of it's own data. The 
latter we might build up some kind of database (and we'll get a 
bibliography system soon), but nothing to store practical documents or 
any large files.

I'll have to ask around.

Andrew

Henry Lowood wrote:
> Devin, Andrew:
>
> You mean the archives of IGDA, not creating an archive at IGDA for 
> material from other sources.  Right? 
>
> The former is an important question and something that makes sense for 
> our group to look at. The second I would leave to the cultural 
> repositories who are building infrastructure for this.  I doubt that 
> IGDA will want to invest resources in an historical archive.
>
> Henry
>
>
>
> Devin Monnens wrote:
>> Andrew,
>>
>> As the Preservation SIG, we should certainly be concerned about the 
>> data archival abilities of the IGDA. Not sure who would be in charge 
>> of that to ask, though...
>>
>> -Devin Monnens
>>
>> On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 4:36 AM, Andrew Armstrong 
>> <andrew at aarmstrong.org <mailto:andrew at aarmstrong.org>> wrote:
>>
>>     Extra apology here, I'm sorry this is late. It is a travesty of
>>     an example when I'm the one touting project work to be done, man
>>     I pretty much suck at timing this really.
>>
>>     Just in case anyone cares: in what little spare time (besides
>>     starting the Bibliography website work) I have had I've been
>>     deeply playing Mount & Blade, which isn't an excuse, just a
>>     brilliant game. Also sadly the start of the month the IGDA site
>>     had issues, which really wants me to confirm they do have a
>>     backup plan somewhere, hehe :) Next months update should be on
>>     time, along with some reports from two events I'm visiting this
>>     month related to videogame preservation.
>>
>>     Luckily at work, Lunchtime is a prime hour for getting this done. :D
>>
>>     Andrew
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     game_preservation mailing list
>>     game_preservation at igda.org <mailto:game_preservation at igda.org>
>>     http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Devin Monnens
>> www.deserthat.com <http://www.deserthat.com>
>>
>> The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> game_preservation mailing list
>> game_preservation at igda.org
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>>   
>
> -- 
> Henry Lowood, Ph.D.
> Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections;
>  Film & Media Collections
> HRG, Green Library, 557 Escondido Mall
> Stanford University Libraries
> Stanford CA 94305-6004
> 650-723-4602; lowood at stanford.edu; http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood 
> <http://www.stanford.edu/%7Elowood>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>   
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From lowood at stanford.edu  Wed May 13 12:42:42 2009
From: lowood at stanford.edu (Henry Lowood)
Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 09:42:42 -0700
Subject: [game_preservation] [Monthly SIG Roundup] May 2009
In-Reply-To: <4A0AAAB7.8070608@aarmstrong.org>
References: <4A094FB9.2060003@aarmstrong.org>	<4A09512C.2040208@aarmstrong.org>	<9d1cf2d50905120743k3b5c2100va08e0514af04da70@mail.gmail.com>	<4A09B0C5.6080000@stanford.edu>
	<4A0AAAB7.8070608@aarmstrong.org>
Message-ID: <4A0AF882.2030706@stanford.edu>

Ok, good, that's what I figured, but always best to ask.

Henry

Andrew Armstrong wrote:
> Certainly the former, the IGDA's own backups of it's own data. The 
> latter we might build up some kind of database (and we'll get a 
> bibliography system soon), but nothing to store practical documents or 
> any large files.
>
> I'll have to ask around.
>
> Andrew
>
> Henry Lowood wrote:
>> Devin, Andrew:
>>
>> You mean the archives of IGDA, not creating an archive at IGDA for 
>> material from other sources.  Right? 
>>
>> The former is an important question and something that makes sense 
>> for our group to look at. The second I would leave to the cultural 
>> repositories who are building infrastructure for this.  I doubt that 
>> IGDA will want to invest resources in an historical archive.
>>
>> Henry
>>
>>
>>
>> Devin Monnens wrote:
>>> Andrew,
>>>
>>> As the Preservation SIG, we should certainly be concerned about the 
>>> data archival abilities of the IGDA. Not sure who would be in charge 
>>> of that to ask, though...
>>>
>>> -Devin Monnens
>>>
>>> On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 4:36 AM, Andrew Armstrong 
>>> <andrew at aarmstrong.org <mailto:andrew at aarmstrong.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>>     Extra apology here, I'm sorry this is late. It is a travesty of
>>>     an example when I'm the one touting project work to be done, man
>>>     I pretty much suck at timing this really.
>>>
>>>     Just in case anyone cares: in what little spare time (besides
>>>     starting the Bibliography website work) I have had I've been
>>>     deeply playing Mount & Blade, which isn't an excuse, just a
>>>     brilliant game. Also sadly the start of the month the IGDA site
>>>     had issues, which really wants me to confirm they do have a
>>>     backup plan somewhere, hehe :) Next months update should be on
>>>     time, along with some reports from two events I'm visiting this
>>>     month related to videogame preservation.
>>>
>>>     Luckily at work, Lunchtime is a prime hour for getting this done. :D
>>>
>>>     Andrew
>>>     _______________________________________________
>>>     game_preservation mailing list
>>>     game_preservation at igda.org <mailto:game_preservation at igda.org>
>>>     http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Devin Monnens
>>> www.deserthat.com <http://www.deserthat.com>
>>>
>>> The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> game_preservation mailing list
>>> game_preservation at igda.org
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>>>   
>>
>> -- 
>> Henry Lowood, Ph.D.
>> Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections;
>>  Film & Media Collections
>> HRG, Green Library, 557 Escondido Mall
>> Stanford University Libraries
>> Stanford CA 94305-6004
>> 650-723-4602; lowood at stanford.edu; http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood 
>> <http://www.stanford.edu/%7Elowood>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> game_preservation mailing list
>> game_preservation at igda.org
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>>   
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>   

-- 
Henry Lowood, Ph.D.
Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections;
 Film & Media Collections
HRG, Green Library, 557 Escondido Mall
Stanford University Libraries
Stanford CA 94305-6004
650-723-4602; lowood at stanford.edu; http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood 
<http://www.stanford.edu/%7Elowood>

From andrew at aarmstrong.org  Wed May 13 16:51:05 2009
From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong)
Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 21:51:05 +0100
Subject: [game_preservation] [Monthly SIG Roundup] May 2009
In-Reply-To: <4A0AF882.2030706@stanford.edu>
References: <4A094FB9.2060003@aarmstrong.org>	<4A09512C.2040208@aarmstrong.org>	<9d1cf2d50905120743k3b5c2100va08e0514af04da70@mail.gmail.com>	<4A09B0C5.6080000@stanford.edu>	<4A0AAAB7.8070608@aarmstrong.org>
	<4A0AF882.2030706@stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <4A0B32B9.1000201@aarmstrong.org>

Oh, also one thing; if anyone has any ideas on good 3rd party backup and 
storage places (or if you can offer such a service free of charge to the 
IGDA) that'd be awesome. As far as I know they'll be staying with 
USA-base Pair hosting, so that might need to be taken into account, but 
I'd certainly like to see the data secured by something other then a 
RAID array and perhaps partial backup, or whatever is currently assumed 
to work.

Andrew

From Dan.Pinchbeck at port.ac.uk  Wed May 13 17:46:19 2009
From: Dan.Pinchbeck at port.ac.uk (Dan Pinchbeck)
Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 22:46:19 +0100
Subject: [game_preservation] [Monthly SIG Roundup] May 2009
Message-ID: <4A0B4DBB020000B50008D0D9@stirling.iso.port.ac.uk>

I'm trying to arrange a server with tape back-up at the moment for HoTU - what kind of space requirements are we talking about-  may be able to smuggle it alongside?

Not a definite, but can see if we can make it work....

dan

Dr Dan Pinchbeck
Advanced Games Research Group
School of Creative Technologies
University of Portsmouth, UK

www.thechineseroom.co.uk
www.keep.port.ac.uk
>>> Andrew Armstrong <andrew at aarmstrong.org> 13/05/09 9:52 PM >>>
Oh, also one thing; if anyone has any ideas on good 3rd party backup and 
storage places (or if you can offer such a service free of charge to the 
IGDA) that'd be awesome. As far as I know they'll be staying with 
USA-base Pair hosting, so that might need to be taken into account, but 
I'd certainly like to see the data secured by something other then a 
RAID array and perhaps partial backup, or whatever is currently assumed 
to work.

Andrew
_______________________________________________
game_preservation mailing list
game_preservation at igda.org
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation


From andrew at aarmstrong.org  Wed May 13 18:18:48 2009
From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong)
Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 23:18:48 +0100
Subject: [game_preservation] [Monthly SIG Roundup] May 2009
In-Reply-To: <4A0B4DBB020000B50008D0D9@stirling.iso.port.ac.uk>
References: <4A0B4DBB020000B50008D0D9@stirling.iso.port.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <4A0B4748.7080005@aarmstrong.org>

No idea TBH - but I doubt it's too many GB of data, even if the entirety 
of the older site structure was saved somewhere.

Andrew

Dan Pinchbeck wrote:
> I'm trying to arrange a server with tape back-up at the moment for HoTU - what kind of space requirements are we talking about-  may be able to smuggle it alongside?
>
> Not a definite, but can see if we can make it work....
>
> dan
>
> Dr Dan Pinchbeck
> Advanced Games Research Group
> School of Creative Technologies
> University of Portsmouth, UK
>
> www.thechineseroom.co.uk
> www.keep.port.ac.uk
>   
>>>> Andrew Armstrong <andrew at aarmstrong.org> 13/05/09 9:52 PM >>>
>>>>         
> Oh, also one thing; if anyone has any ideas on good 3rd party backup and 
> storage places (or if you can offer such a service free of charge to the 
> IGDA) that'd be awesome. As far as I know they'll be staying with 
> USA-base Pair hosting, so that might need to be taken into account, but 
> I'd certainly like to see the data secured by something other then a 
> RAID array and perhaps partial backup, or whatever is currently assumed 
> to work.
>
> Andrew
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>   
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From dmonnens at gmail.com  Wed May 20 17:12:18 2009
From: dmonnens at gmail.com (Devin Monnens)
Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 15:12:18 -0600
Subject: [game_preservation] Old printers
Message-ID: <9d1cf2d50905201412uc3f3352idb5ec9441cdc43ad@mail.gmail.com>

I've got an old printer for my Amiga 500 (big and clunky; ink ribbons are
pretty dried up) and another for my TRS-80 (which I don't know if it works
or not). Of what use are these devices? I can think it might be important to
document how an old printer functions, but as the weeks pass, it becomes
even more difficult to justify keeping them around the house. Obviously if
storage space was not an issue, it would be no conversation. What is your
opinion on the relevance of old printers?

-Devin Monnens

-- 
Devin Monnens
www.deserthat.com

The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
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From lowood at stanford.edu  Wed May 20 18:29:50 2009
From: lowood at stanford.edu (Henry Lowood)
Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 15:29:50 -0700
Subject: [game_preservation] Old printers
In-Reply-To: <9d1cf2d50905201412uc3f3352idb5ec9441cdc43ad@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9d1cf2d50905201412uc3f3352idb5ec9441cdc43ad@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A14845E.1040108@stanford.edu>

There may be some conceivable use that one could imagine, but it is very 
remote and not likely to affect the delivery of content that is far more 
important.  Given the space taken up by them, esp. artifacts such as 
daisy-wheel printers, it is very difficult to justify keeping them.

Henry



Devin Monnens wrote:
> I've got an old printer for my Amiga 500 (big and clunky; ink ribbons 
> are pretty dried up) and another for my TRS-80 (which I don't know if 
> it works or not). Of what use are these devices? I can think it might 
> be important to document how an old printer functions, but as the 
> weeks pass, it becomes even more difficult to justify keeping them 
> around the house. Obviously if storage space was not an issue, it 
> would be no conversation. What is your opinion on the relevance of old 
> printers?
>
> -Devin Monnens
>
> -- 
> Devin Monnens
> www.deserthat.com <http://www.deserthat.com>
>
> The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>   

-- 
Henry Lowood, Ph.D.
Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections;
 Film & Media Collections
HRG, Green Library, 557 Escondido Mall
Stanford University Libraries
Stanford CA 94305-6004
650-723-4602; lowood at stanford.edu; http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood 
<http://www.stanford.edu/%7Elowood>

From donahrm at gmail.com  Wed May 20 19:09:36 2009
From: donahrm at gmail.com (Rachel "Sheepy" Donahue)
Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 19:09:36 -0400
Subject: [game_preservation] Old printers
In-Reply-To: <9d1cf2d50905201412uc3f3352idb5ec9441cdc43ad@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9d1cf2d50905201412uc3f3352idb5ec9441cdc43ad@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <op.ut83yagkfmh8gn@sherpa.westell.com>

Well, they're more reliable, at any rate -- how many ink jets last 20 years? :>

On Wed, 20 May 2009 17:12:18 -0400, Devin Monnens <dmonnens at gmail.com> wrote:

> I've got an old printer for my Amiga 500 (big and clunky; ink ribbons are
> pretty dried up) and another for my TRS-80 (which I don't know if it  
> works
> or not). Of what use are these devices? I can think it might be  
> important to
> document how an old printer functions, but as the weeks pass, it becomes
> even more difficult to justify keeping them around the house. Obviously  
> if
> storage space was not an issue, it would be no conversation. What is your
> opinion on the relevance of old printers?
>
> -Devin Monnens
>


-- 
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

From andrew at aarmstrong.org  Wed May 20 20:16:56 2009
From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong)
Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 01:16:56 +0100
Subject: [game_preservation] Old printers
In-Reply-To: <9d1cf2d50905201412uc3f3352idb5ec9441cdc43ad@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9d1cf2d50905201412uc3f3352idb5ec9441cdc43ad@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A149D78.30207@aarmstrong.org>

Maybe donate them to one of the many computer museums if they'd take 
them. Working printers get harder and harder to find since they're so 
much less common then the hardware (of course), or at least might be 
useful for parts.

If you did document them, well, we really need to get some 
documentation/guidelines together on how best to do that, at least a 
checklist and form thing or something. Not that printers specifically 
are material for videogame preservation exactly, just in general this 
would be useful. Hmm, where was that post about what someone did with 
old kit they needed to bin - photographs, documentation etc. they 
collected digitally before selling on or donating the material...hmm...

Andrew

Devin Monnens wrote:
> I've got an old printer for my Amiga 500 (big and clunky; ink ribbons 
> are pretty dried up) and another for my TRS-80 (which I don't know if 
> it works or not). Of what use are these devices? I can think it might 
> be important to document how an old printer functions, but as the 
> weeks pass, it becomes even more difficult to justify keeping them 
> around the house. Obviously if storage space was not an issue, it 
> would be no conversation. What is your opinion on the relevance of old 
> printers?
>
> -Devin Monnens
>
> -- 
> Devin Monnens
> www.deserthat.com <http://www.deserthat.com>
>
> The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>   
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From dmonnens at gmail.com  Fri May 22 09:01:59 2009
From: dmonnens at gmail.com (Devin Monnens)
Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 07:01:59 -0600
Subject: [game_preservation] Fwd: [coloradogamedevelopers] Microsoft cutting
	funds for trueSpace
In-Reply-To: <4A164777.9070901@gmail.com>
References: <4A164777.9070901@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9d1cf2d50905220601r5e16018cv3455b8f51108c538@mail.gmail.com>

Got this from my local chapter. trueSpace 7.6 is disappearing, and it looks
like it's game dev tools. This looks like something the Preservation SIG
should have interest in...

-Devin Monnens

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: MassMOG - Paul Hoza <hoza at massmog.com>
Date: Fri, May 22, 2009 at 12:34 AM
Subject: [coloradogamedevelopers] Microsoft cutting funds for trueSpace
To: cgd <coloradogamedevelopers at yahoogroups.com>





In case anyone wants to get in on the free trueSpace 7.6 program and
resources, you ought to get on it right away. It looks like Microsoft
(who purchased trueSpace recently) is cutting back on the project. The
Caligari founder dropped an email bomb saying folks should snap up any
content/tools/videos/etc. they want before they disappear -- if they
disappear.

Anyway, I'm just shamelessly going to link to an article I hastily
posted about this:

http://www.gamedevschool.com/content/3d-content-tools/2009/caligari-truespace-support-fading-fast

(Ahhh... take /that/, shame!)

...ugh... I'm way behind on keeping my sites updated. *Pfft!*

Paul

-- 
+-----------------------------------------------+
| Paul Hoza
| Senior Editor & Webmaster
| www.MassMOG.com
| hoza at massmog.com <hoza%40massmog.com>
| Shipping:
| 5343 S. Pitkin Ct.
| Centennial, CO 80015
+-----------------------------------------------+

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The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
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From dmonnens at gmail.com  Fri May 22 22:40:46 2009
From: dmonnens at gmail.com (Devin Monnens)
Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 20:40:46 -0600
Subject: [game_preservation] "Registration for video games and other machine
	readable audiovisual works"
Message-ID: <9d1cf2d50905221940j5fff38adj88ea87fa7bac54d4@mail.gmail.com>

Did a random library doc search and found this copyright document listed:

"Registration for video games and other machine readable audiovisual works"
Circular -- no. R49., Circular (Library of Congress. Copyright Office) -- R
49. 1985.

Unfortunately, couldn't find it on the Library of Congress website (perhaps
I wasn't searching hard enough...) or the Copyright office. They did,
however, have a form for registering games, which I believe may be intended
more for paper games:

http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl108.html

Anyway, as the University of Denver copy was missing, I was curious if
anyone here had a copy they could scan and distribute (it's only 3 pages).

-Devin Monnens

-- 
Devin Monnens
www.deserthat.com

The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
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From andrew at aarmstrong.org  Sat May 23 10:16:27 2009
From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong)
Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 15:16:27 +0100
Subject: [game_preservation] Fwd: [coloradogamedevelopers] Microsoft
 cutting funds for trueSpace
In-Reply-To: <9d1cf2d50905220601r5e16018cv3455b8f51108c538@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4A164777.9070901@gmail.com>
	<9d1cf2d50905220601r5e16018cv3455b8f51108c538@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A18053B.9010609@aarmstrong.org>

Nice catch, although I've not got any free account with them so can't 
grab the files. If you grab them, eventually the IA will have some 
collections for game-related software, like modelling and modding tools.

Andrew

Devin Monnens wrote:
> Got this from my local chapter. trueSpace 7.6 is disappearing, and it 
> looks like it's game dev tools. This looks like something the 
> Preservation SIG should have interest in...
>
> -Devin Monnens
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: *MassMOG - Paul Hoza* <hoza at massmog.com <mailto:hoza at massmog.com>>
> Date: Fri, May 22, 2009 at 12:34 AM
> Subject: [coloradogamedevelopers] Microsoft cutting funds for trueSpace
> To: cgd <coloradogamedevelopers at yahoogroups.com 
> <mailto:coloradogamedevelopers at yahoogroups.com>>
>
>
>
>
>
> In case anyone wants to get in on the free trueSpace 7.6 program and
> resources, you ought to get on it right away. It looks like Microsoft
> (who purchased trueSpace recently) is cutting back on the project. The
> Caligari founder dropped an email bomb saying folks should snap up any
> content/tools/videos/etc. they want before they disappear -- if they
> disappear.
>
> Anyway, I'm just shamelessly going to link to an article I hastily
> posted about this:
>
> http://www.gamedevschool.com/content/3d-content-tools/2009/caligari-truespace-support-fading-fast
>
> (Ahhh... take /that/, shame!)
>
> ...ugh... I'm way behind on keeping my sites updated. *Pfft!*
>
> Paul
>
> -- 
> +-----------------------------------------------+
> | Paul Hoza
> | Senior Editor & Webmaster
> | www.MassMOG.com <http://www.MassMOG.com>
> | hoza at massmog.com <mailto:hoza%40massmog.com>
> | Shipping:
> | 5343 S. Pitkin Ct.
> | Centennial, CO 80015
> +-----------------------------------------------+
>
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> www.deserthat.com <http://www.deserthat.com>
>
> The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
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>   
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From ommail at cox.net  Sat May 23 14:42:18 2009
From: ommail at cox.net (ommail at cox.net)
Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 14:42:18 -0400
Subject: [game_preservation] "Registration for video games and other
 machine readable audiovisual works"
In-Reply-To: <9d1cf2d50905221940j5fff38adj88ea87fa7bac54d4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090523144218.Z850V.48465.imail@eastrmwml38>

Devin,

Are you looking for anything specific regarding this Library of Congress circular (any updates, the registration process, etc)?  I could probably find out for you.  Keep in mind that there is a little bit of a brew-ha-ha going on about copyright in the Library of Congress right now tho.

Please let me know.  I'll ask around on Tuesday.

Joe Garrity

---- Devin Monnens <dmonnens at gmail.com> wrote: 
> Did a random library doc search and found this copyright document listed:
> 
> "Registration for video games and other machine readable audiovisual works"
> Circular -- no. R49., Circular (Library of Congress. Copyright Office) -- R
> 49. 1985.
> 
> Unfortunately, couldn't find it on the Library of Congress website (perhaps
> I wasn't searching hard enough...) or the Copyright office. They did,
> however, have a form for registering games, which I believe may be intended
> more for paper games:
> 
> http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl108.html
> 
> Anyway, as the University of Denver copy was missing, I was curious if
> anyone here had a copy they could scan and distribute (it's only 3 pages).
> 
> -Devin Monnens
> 
> -- 
> Devin Monnens
> www.deserthat.com
> 
> The sleep of Reason produces monsters.


From sa.vanstelten at gmail.com  Mon May 25 15:15:12 2009
From: sa.vanstelten at gmail.com (Steven van Stelten)
Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 21:15:12 +0200
Subject: [game_preservation] XBLA, Wiiware,
	and maybe the future of releasing all games + intro
Message-ID: <FA0D9708-5E3B-4A9D-93AC-561BC45453E4@gmail.com>

Hello SIG mailinglist members,

Firstly, I would like to introduce myself and than throw in a bone. I  
am Steven van Stelten, Dutch student Reinwardt Acadamy of Cultural  
Heritage. And currently very busy with a paper about preservation of  
the world of video games. This mailinglist and its archive have been  
very helpful. So thank you for that.

And now for the bone:
It probably is not the biggest issue out there right now. And I do not  
know very much about the future of releasing games. However I have  
come across some speculation here and there that games will be  
released (downloads) and/or played solely via internet. So nothing  
tangible will be put out on the market anymore. Now MMOs and the sorts  
fit in to this, and there are XBOX 360's XBLA and Wii's Wiiware. For  
MMOs and such there are other problems. But nowadays XBLA releases  
games exclusively, see:
This title is only available to Xbox 360? owners with an Xbox LIVE?  
Silver or Gold membership, through download from the Xbox LIVE  
Marketplace.
From:http://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/b/bngxboxlivearcade/default.htm

A hit game like Braid is also available as a PC game. But some XBLA  
games are, I think, only available as a download for the XBOX 360,  
where it hides somewhere on that platform/console. If a game is  
brought on the market on disc, and there are several tens of  
thousands  or more made there is a bigger chance that something will  
live (I think). I do not how those downloadable games are stored by  
the publisher, however I can imagine that collecting these  
downloadable games will be something quite different in the future.  
Acquiring a game from someone who still has that game on a certain  
hard disk will be different. And I reckon that quality control can be  
something that will be more important, because these games are more  
prone to be (accidentally) fiddled with. And they need to be migrated  
and without viruses and such.
Especially the XBLA games are fragile, I think. Because they are  
harder to access for making copies, and are more likely to turn  
obsolete at some time.

Sorry for the long text. In short I am interested in your thoughts  
(maybe more broad than mentioned above) on this as brought on the  
market intangible stuff. And if you agree that these intangible  
artifacts are more susceptible to loss than the games on let's say,  
discs. And maybe someone knows some interesting resources or could  
direct me to a earlier post, because I remember something about  
delistings a while back.

Many thanks en best regards,

Steven





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From dmonnens at gmail.com  Mon May 25 16:18:54 2009
From: dmonnens at gmail.com (Devin Monnens)
Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 14:18:54 -0600
Subject: [game_preservation] XBLA, Wiiware,
	and maybe the future of 	releasing all games + intro
In-Reply-To: <FA0D9708-5E3B-4A9D-93AC-561BC45453E4@gmail.com>
References: <FA0D9708-5E3B-4A9D-93AC-561BC45453E4@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9d1cf2d50905251318p180d5b75l7a31d70215a3c6e3@mail.gmail.com>

Steven,

Thanks for the info! We'll be glad to help you out.

There was some discussion of XBLA, etc in the White Paper, but I only
glanced at it. There may be some collecting work done by certain archives
with 360s and Wii's who have downloaded all (or most of) the games. As such,
the only effective way to store them would be to save the games on a hard
drive. You MIGHT be able to get around the one copy per user for XBLA by
purchasing multiple hard drives and keeping one as a backup. Permanently
archiving community games might be easier as we can solicit a copy. And of
course there are demos and interviews and all the other stuff Microsoft puts
up.

I'm beginning to think we should have a copyright system where published
games need to be submitted to the LOC or government library or something.
This is already done with books, but again there is no organization whose
job it is to preserve games, and this would mandate that a copy be made
available for the future (you get copyright protection; in exchange the
government gets a copy for its library in order to benefit society). There's
every reason to suspect that many VC and XBLA games will become unavailable
10 years into the future, and it's ridiculous to suspect the company will be
interested in preserving these titles. One would have to look at the
contract agreements to see just who owns the games.

Fortunately, we DO already have a case study: The Nintendo BS Satellite.
These games were transmitted Nintendo's satellite internet in Japan only for
the Super NES. The hardware is very expensive because so few were made, and
working games are even rarer. I am not sure how the games that we have
became available, but I suspect if it came down to it, something similar
MIGHT be what happens with VC games where the games are stored on somebody's
hard drive or become available through the hardcore collector's market. I'd
say any research you can do in that area would be a great start.

-Devin Monnens

On Mon, May 25, 2009 at 1:15 PM, Steven van Stelten <sa.vanstelten at gmail.com
> wrote:

> Hello SIG mailinglist members,
> Firstly, I would like to introduce myself and than throw in a bone. I am
> Steven van Stelten, Dutch student Reinwardt Acadamy of Cultural Heritage.
> And currently very busy with a paper about preservation of the world of
> video games. This mailinglist and its archive have been very helpful. So
> thank you for that.
>
> And now for the bone:
> It probably is not the biggest issue out there right now. And I do not know
> very much about the future of releasing games. However I have come across
> some speculation here and there that games will be released (downloads)
> and/or played solely via internet. So nothing tangible will be put out on
> the market anymore. Now MMOs and the sorts fit in to this, and there are
> XBOX 360's XBLA and Wii's Wiiware. For MMOs and such there are other
> problems. But nowadays XBLA releases games exclusively, see:
> This title is only available to Xbox 360? owners with an Xbox LIVE? Silver
> or Gold membership, through download from the Xbox LIVE Marketplace.
> From:http://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/b/bngxboxlivearcade/default.htm
>
> A hit game like Braid is also available as a PC game. But some XBLA games
> are, I think, only available as a download for the XBOX 360, where it hides
> somewhere on that platform/console. If a game is brought on the market on
> disc, and there are several tens of thousands  or more made there is a
> bigger chance that something will live (I think). I do not how those
> downloadable games are stored by the publisher, however I can imagine that
> collecting these downloadable games will be something quite different in the
> future. Acquiring a game from someone who still has that game on a certain
> hard disk will be different. And I reckon that quality control can be
> something that will be more important, because these games are more prone to
> be (accidentally) fiddled with. And they need to be migrated and without
> viruses and such.
> Especially the XBLA games are fragile, I think. Because they are harder to
> access for making copies, and are more likely to turn obsolete at some time.
>
> Sorry for the long text. In short I am interested in your thoughts (maybe
> more broad than mentioned above) on this as brought on the market intangible
> stuff. And if you agree that these intangible artifacts are more susceptible
> to loss than the games on let's say, discs. And maybe someone knows some
> interesting resources or could direct me to a earlier post, because I
> remember something about delistings a while back.
>
> Many thanks en best regards,
>
> Steven
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>
>


-- 
Devin Monnens
www.deserthat.com

The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
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From andrew at aarmstrong.org  Mon May 25 19:28:46 2009
From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong)
Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 00:28:46 +0100
Subject: [game_preservation] XBLA, Wiiware,
 and maybe the future of 	releasing all games + intro
In-Reply-To: <9d1cf2d50905251318p180d5b75l7a31d70215a3c6e3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <FA0D9708-5E3B-4A9D-93AC-561BC45453E4@gmail.com>
	<9d1cf2d50905251318p180d5b75l7a31d70215a3c6e3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A1B29AE.70004@aarmstrong.org>

Yeah, it just kinda sucks all around. Plenty of things are now only 
digitally distributed - and with DRM, of course (since if it was *just* 
downloadable, ala, say, MMO clients, then that'd be less of a problem 
since those you can make multiple copies of).

I'm only really half interested in the reasons for this massive digital 
push - but here we go: one angle is it is easier to distribute, and 
cheaper (although not exactly much cheaper games are they? ;) ), there 
is a small piracy angle, but mainly it's a good stab at trying to 
prevent 2nd hand sales, since the main thing they do is tie whatever 
game it is to an account and credit card and, basically, wipe that 
market out.

Research is needed on the preservation side though, if you have anything 
you can write up Steven for our Wiki then that'd be awesome :) There is 
a lack of authoritative articles on the subject - or, well, finish your 
paper and we'll put a link up of course.

Case studies, well, Devin's example I'd never even heard of, would be 
awesome - there are some non-game service examples where DRM-downloaded 
files (on PC's...but the platform doesn't really matter, it could be 
Steam or Xbox Live here) become defunct despite being brought because 
the service provider disappeared/stopped the service, even from 
Microsoft - big red flashing lights there, although console DRM usually 
means you can "go offline" and play them without an internet connection, 
so copies can be partially made that way (still tied to an account and a 
miserably-poor-quality bit of hardware which might very well fail).

Andrew

From lowood at stanford.edu  Mon May 25 22:03:42 2009
From: lowood at stanford.edu (Henry Lowood)
Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 19:03:42 -0700
Subject: [game_preservation] XBLA, Wiiware,
 and maybe the future of releasing all games + intro
In-Reply-To: <FA0D9708-5E3B-4A9D-93AC-561BC45453E4@gmail.com>
References: <FA0D9708-5E3B-4A9D-93AC-561BC45453E4@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A1B4DFE.9080101@stanford.edu>

Hello Steven,

Three quick points on your question:

1. Even games that are distributed via traditional means, such as boxed 
games, have similar problems, such as  frequent patches, say, for 
PC-based games.

2. The questions you are raising have to do with software preservation; 
another issue is how to save player activity.  Until recently, this was 
much easier with PC-based games, but now there are some replay and 
capture tools for certain game titles on consoles (e.g., Halo).

3. A few XBLA games have been distributed as "best of" sets on disk, 
e.g., XBox Live Arcade Unplugged (2006), which includes Geometry Wars, 
for example, and a few other less worthy games (in my opinion).

Henry

Steven van Stelten wrote:
> Hello SIG mailinglist members,
>
> Firstly, I would like to introduce myself and than throw in a bone. I 
> am Steven van Stelten, Dutch student Reinwardt Acadamy of Cultural 
> Heritage. And currently very busy with a paper about preservation of 
> the world of video games. This mailinglist and its archive have been 
> very helpful. So thank you for that. 
>
> And now for the bone:
> It probably is not the biggest issue out there right now. And I do not 
> know very much about the future of releasing games. However I have 
> come across some speculation here and there that games will be 
> released (downloads) and/or played solely via internet. So nothing 
> tangible will be put out on the market anymore. Now MMOs and the sorts 
> fit in to this, and there are XBOX 360's XBLA and Wii's Wiiware. For 
> MMOs and such there are other problems. But nowadays XBLA releases 
> games exclusively, see:
> This title is only available to Xbox 360? owners with an Xbox LIVE? 
> Silver or Gold membership, through download from the Xbox LIVE 
> Marketplace.
> From:http://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/b/bngxboxlivearcade/default.htm
>
> A hit game like Braid is also available as a PC game. But some XBLA 
> games are, I think, only available as a download for the XBOX 360, 
> where it hides somewhere on that platform/console. If a game is 
> brought on the market on disc, and there are several tens of thousands 
>  or more made there is a bigger chance that something will live (I 
> think). I do not how those downloadable games are stored by the 
> publisher, however I can imagine that collecting these downloadable 
> games will be something quite different in the future. Acquiring a 
> game from someone who still has that game on a certain hard disk will 
> be different. And I reckon that quality control can be something that 
> will be more important, because these games are more prone to be 
> (accidentally) fiddled with. And they need to be migrated and without 
> viruses and such.
> Especially the XBLA games are fragile, I think. Because they are 
> harder to access for making copies, and are more likely to turn 
> obsolete at some time.
>
> Sorry for the long text. In short I am interested in your thoughts 
> (maybe more broad than mentioned above) on this as brought on the 
> market intangible stuff. And if you agree that these intangible 
> artifacts are more susceptible to loss than the games on let's say, 
> discs. And maybe someone knows some interesting resources or could 
> direct me to a earlier post, because I remember something about 
> delistings a while back.
>
> Many thanks en best regards,
>
> Steven
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>   

-- 
Henry Lowood
Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections;
     Film & Media Collections
HRG, Green Library
557 Escondido Mall, Stanford University Libraries
Stanford CA 94305-6004 USA
http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood
lowood at stanford.edu; 650-723-4602

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From sa.vanstelten at gmail.com  Tue May 26 09:31:32 2009
From: sa.vanstelten at gmail.com (Steven van Stelten)
Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 15:31:32 +0200
Subject: [game_preservation] XBLA, Wiiware,
	and maybe the future of releasing all games + intro
In-Reply-To: <4A1B4DFE.9080101@stanford.edu>
References: <FA0D9708-5E3B-4A9D-93AC-561BC45453E4@gmail.com>
	<4A1B4DFE.9080101@stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <E435F0C3-1556-4205-BBFA-A7B243438594@gmail.com>

Hello Devin, Andrew and Henry,

Firstly, thank you for the quick and extensive replies.

1. There must be Wii's, XBOXs, etc. out there that contain all the  
games (maybe not all due to regional distribution differences). And  
with that are numerous communities solely dedicated to a XBLA, Wiiware  
or Virtual Console. With lots of information on these games and  
peoples opinions. The Virtual Console of course is only re-releasing  
the older ones. Which is interesting in that it shows there is market  
for older games (earlier re-releases have been done), which in my  
opinion further underlines that games are great cultural artifacts.  
And it involves emulation, well etc.
I have just read the paragraph in the 'Before it's too late...' paper  
and there this problem is very well written down. It is not only the  
console initiatives that are troublesome. But it is something that in  
my opinion is causes more trouble in the collecting sphere and where  
games are more prone to loss. Andrew stated that this kind of  
distribution prevents 2nd hand sales. This fact is not very helpful  
when you plan upon collecting these games at a later stage  
(retrospective collecting). However the hit games tend to resurface on  
other formats/media.

2. On the copyright issue (which I sidestep in my paper). I have read  
on Kotaku (link: http://kotaku.com/313328/the-library-of-congress-loves-video-games) 
  that the number of deposits is around 2000+ (article from 2007) and  
that they were being transported from their warehouses to more  
specialist archives (archives of division Motion Picture, Broadcasting  
and Recorded Sound Division (MBRS)). So that step has been undertaken.  
I do not know much on this subject. So the public can not get access  
to these deposited games? And preservation wise the same IP issues are  
here, I presume. However I am intrigued by the portions of source code  
that must be deposited (trade secrets may be blocked out).
The DMCA exemption grants some preservation work to be done..for now.  
It would be ideal if their was a construction as with books with other  
media (again I really do not know much about this issue). It would be  
very handy if every game would be up for grabs for museums, archives  
and the sorts and do whatever they like for preservation and  
exhibition/accessibility purposes. But if have understood it  
correctly, for every game that is under copyright only agreements are  
to be made with the industry and only the games in dire need due to  
obsolescence are free to work with at this moment? So now strategies/ 
models are being developed for those that can be/are collected. So for  
some games you much wait for obsolescence or get permission to  
continue preservation actions and making games accessible.
Well I will stop with 'regurgitating' things all long said on this  
list. Only one more thing. An ideal situation would be if there would  
be a platform/organization established (inter)national dedicated to  
preserving videogames/interactive media. Like there are for movies/ 
films (AFI / NFPF). A sort of authoritative organization which the  
gaming industry will recognize  as a (helpful) partner in preserving  
this heritage. And will be more likely to work with (ie AFI oral  
history collection). An organization that will probably will start in  
a sort of umbrella form. In 2004 something was mentioned like the  
'International Coalition of Preserving Digital Games. That is the the  
ultimate goal right?!

*tongue in cheek*: I have read that no agreements are made by the USA  
on copyright with the following countries: Eritrea, Ethipio,  
Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, San Marino and Turkmenistan.

3.  On player activity. I agree that games, especially MMOs, maybe  
will not be the historical source as a record of player behavior/ 
experience can be. I have seen some Halo videos (http://www.Top10Series.com/ 
), some quite hilarious. And seen some captures of MMO events. And it  
is important to supply a context for the preserved games. I think  
preserving the games can be helpful for a sociological study of the  
users of games to some point (maybe a type of speedrun would be  
adequate though). But more so, I think, are the stories, recorded  
gameplay, and such. Youtube is filled with videos of gameplays and  
such (sometimes only to get a response like: 'you SUCK' (pardon the  
french)). Because games are so rapidly evolving makes this very  
important. I recently played a childhood game and boy, was that quite  
the opposite of the experience I had when I was young. Nowadays goals  
in games getting ever so vague and relying more on social conduct and  
the creativity of players. To come back on te XBLA. Geometry Wars is  
an arcade-like game which heavily relies on highscores (there's a  
website dedicated solely to these highscores) and also like a lot of  
XBOX games on the socalled achievements (PS3 it's called a trophy). To  
name just something extra beyond the actual games.

Well not much news (for quite a bit of text) mentioned above ;)

Best regards,

Steven



On May 26, 2009, at 4:03 AM, Henry Lowood wrote:

> Hello Steven,
> n
> Three quick points on your question:
>
> 1. Even games that are distributed via traditional means, such as  
> boxed games, have similar problems, such as  frequent patches, say,  
> for PC-based games.
>
> 2. The questions you are raising have to do with software  
> preservation; another issue is how to save player activity.  Until  
> recently, this was much easier with PC-based games, but now there  
> are some replay and capture tools for certain game titles on  
> consoles (e.g., Halo).
>
> 3. A few XBLA games have been distributed as "best of" sets on disk,  
> e.g., XBox Live Arcade Unplugged (2006), which includes Geometry  
> Wars, for example, and a few other less worthy games (in my opinion).
>
> Henry
>
> Steven van Stelten wrote:
>>
>> Hello SIG mailinglist members,
>>
>> Firstly, I would like to introduce myself and than throw in a bone.  
>> I am Steven van Stelten, Dutch student Reinwardt Acadamy of  
>> Cultural Heritage. And currently very busy with a paper about  
>> preservation of the world of video games. This mailinglist and its  
>> archive have been very helpful. So thank you for that.
>>
>> And now for the bone:
>> It probably is not the biggest issue out there right now. And I do  
>> not know very much about the future of releasing games. However I  
>> have come across some speculation here and there that games will be  
>> released (downloads) and/or played solely via internet. So nothing  
>> tangible will be put out on the market anymore. Now MMOs and the  
>> sorts fit in to this, and there are XBOX 360's XBLA and Wii's  
>> Wiiware. For MMOs and such there are other problems. But nowadays  
>> XBLA releases games exclusively, see:
>> This title is only available to Xbox 360? owners with an Xbox LIVE?  
>> Silver or Gold membership, through download from the Xbox LIVE  
>> Marketplace.
>> From:http://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/b/bngxboxlivearcade/default.htm
>>
>> A hit game like Braid is also available as a PC game. But some XBLA  
>> games are, I think, only available as a download for the XBOX 360,  
>> where it hides somewhere on that platform/console. If a game is  
>> brought on the market on disc, and there are several tens of  
>> thousands  or more made there is a bigger chance that something  
>> will live (I think). I do not how those downloadable games are  
>> stored by the publisher, however I can imagine that collecting  
>> these downloadable games will be something quite different in the  
>> future. Acquiring a game from someone who still has that game on a  
>> certain hard disk will be different. And I reckon that quality  
>> control can be something that will be more important, because these  
>> games are more prone to be (accidentally) fiddled with. And they  
>> need to be migrated and without viruses and such.
>> Especially the XBLA games are fragile, I think. Because they are  
>> harder to access for making copies, and are more likely to turn  
>> obsolete at some time.
>>
>> Sorry for the long text. In short I am interested in your thoughts  
>> (maybe more broad than mentioned above) on this as brought on the  
>> market intangible stuff. And if you agree that these intangible  
>> artifacts are more susceptible to loss than the games on let's say,  
>> discs. And maybe someone knows some interesting resources or could  
>> direct me to a earlier post, because I remember something about  
>> delistings a while back.
>>
>> Many thanks en best regards,
>>
>> Steven
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> game_preservation mailing list
>> game_preservation at igda.org
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>>
>
> -- 
> Henry Lowood
> Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections;
>      Film & Media Collections
> HRG, Green Library
> 557 Escondido Mall, Stanford University Libraries
> Stanford CA 94305-6004 USA
> http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood
> lowood at stanford.edu; 650-723-4602
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation

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From dmonnens at gmail.com  Tue May 26 09:56:13 2009
From: dmonnens at gmail.com (Devin Monnens)
Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 07:56:13 -0600
Subject: [game_preservation] XBLA, Wiiware,
	and maybe the future of 	releasing all games + intro
In-Reply-To: <E435F0C3-1556-4205-BBFA-A7B243438594@gmail.com>
References: <FA0D9708-5E3B-4A9D-93AC-561BC45453E4@gmail.com>
	<4A1B4DFE.9080101@stanford.edu>
	<E435F0C3-1556-4205-BBFA-A7B243438594@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9d1cf2d50905260656p5a22ec30n976e8ac97e1710d2@mail.gmail.com>

Wow Steve! That's quite a response!

I hadn't read the article by Kotaku actually. I'm guessing this was supposed
to be common knowledge? (this is the kind of thing I was talking about for
resources...maybe we need a 'game preservation 101' reading list) I don't
remember there being a LoC entry on our list... (or at least the VA branch).
2000 titles in storage going back to the beginning is an interesting figure
as well - that's the number of titles officially registered under copyright!

What this article states is that it was a two year project - which means
they should be publishing the results within a year. It would be fantastic
to get them on board for the Best Practices, or at least get some one-on-one
interviews. Please tell me someone from LoC is on the list...

Regarding an international group, this would have been something mentioned
before I joined. This was ultimately a goal that I had in mind as well, but
I don't think a truly international repository could be established simply
because of copyright laws in different countries. Though different national
groups could certainly integrate their catalogues for researchers. I think
the IGDA could have a good chance of getting through the door as a start of
that depository - especially if we establish that oral history project (you
know, maybe I should try and lay some groundwork for the local project in
Colorado...).  However, I don't know if the IGDA is something that wants to
be that involved with the industry. In an ideal world, you'd have a place
where games would be registered and a copy sent for preservation and IP,
etc. could be tracked through that central location.

-Devin Monnens

-- 
Devin Monnens
www.deserthat.com

The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
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From andrew at aarmstrong.org  Tue May 26 10:55:33 2009
From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong)
Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 15:55:33 +0100
Subject: [game_preservation] XBLA, Wiiware,
 and maybe the future of 	releasing all games + intro
In-Reply-To: <9d1cf2d50905260656p5a22ec30n976e8ac97e1710d2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <FA0D9708-5E3B-4A9D-93AC-561BC45453E4@gmail.com>	<4A1B4DFE.9080101@stanford.edu>	<E435F0C3-1556-4205-BBFA-A7B243438594@gmail.com>
	<9d1cf2d50905260656p5a22ec30n976e8ac97e1710d2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A1C02E5.2080804@aarmstrong.org>

The IGDA could organise efforts, but any front of physical work is a bit 
too much to do (so other places would have to do the actual "here's a 
physical copy for preservation we want you to have" part). We're no 
where near the size or have the funding that other similar organisations 
have. I'm all for trying to organise such a feat - but I would rather 
think the current projects which have had no work done on them need 
sorting first. I only have so many hands. In any case, since we are the 
IGDA group for this, if we want to do this, we could. I'm not saying all 
the members or associated companies would/could be able to help, but 
it'd be a start.

DMCA copyright exemptions, AFAIK, have not been renewed for videogame 
stuff. They're pretty rubbish parts of the law anyway, from what I've 
read, anyway - the entire DMCA law needs to change rather then allowing 
3 year exemptions that might not be renewed (thus, no further work can 
be done in that area...). I don't live in America though, so write to 
your congressperson! :)

I also don't know what people do "regardless" of this exemption stuff. 
In Europe, for instance, with no DMCA-like law, yet, there is nothing 
stopping the reverse engineering or breaking of DRM so that copies can 
be made for preservation, libraries, etc - at least, I think this is the 
case.

Andrew

PS: It's never "gaming industry" - that's gambling - "games industry" 
"videogame industry" etc are better ;)

Devin Monnens wrote:
> Wow Steve! That's quite a response!
>
> I hadn't read the article by Kotaku actually. I'm guessing this was 
> supposed to be common knowledge? (this is the kind of thing I was 
> talking about for resources...maybe we need a 'game preservation 101' 
> reading list) I don't remember there being a LoC entry on our list... 
> (or at least the VA branch). 2000 titles in storage going back to the 
> beginning is an interesting figure as well - that's the number of 
> titles officially registered under copyright!
>
> What this article states is that it was a two year project - which 
> means they should be publishing the results within a year. It would be 
> fantastic to get them on board for the Best Practices, or at least get 
> some one-on-one interviews. Please tell me someone from LoC is on the 
> list...
>
> Regarding an international group, this would have been something 
> mentioned before I joined. This was ultimately a goal that I had in 
> mind as well, but I don't think a truly international repository could 
> be established simply because of copyright laws in different 
> countries. Though different national groups could certainly integrate 
> their catalogues for researchers. I think the IGDA could have a good 
> chance of getting through the door as a start of that depository - 
> especially if we establish that oral history project (you know, maybe 
> I should try and lay some groundwork for the local project in 
> Colorado...).  However, I don't know if the IGDA is something that 
> wants to be that involved with the industry. In an ideal world, you'd 
> have a place where games would be registered and a copy sent for 
> preservation and IP, etc. could be tracked through that central location.
>
> -Devin Monnens
>
> -- 
> Devin Monnens
> www.deserthat.com <http://www.deserthat.com>
>
> The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>   
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From donahrm at gmail.com  Tue May 26 11:08:14 2009
From: donahrm at gmail.com (Rachel "Sheepy" Donahue)
Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 11:08:14 -0400
Subject: [game_preservation] [Monthly SIG Roundup] May 2009
In-Reply-To: <4A0B32B9.1000201@aarmstrong.org>
References: <4A094FB9.2060003@aarmstrong.org> <4A09512C.2040208@aarmstrong.org>
	<9d1cf2d50905120743k3b5c2100va08e0514af04da70@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A09B0C5.6080000@stanford.edu> <4A0AAAB7.8070608@aarmstrong.org>
	<4A0AF882.2030706@stanford.edu> <4A0B32B9.1000201@aarmstrong.org>
Message-ID: <op.uujln0bdfmh8gn@sherpa.westell.com>

Little late to this party (was wrapped up in end of the semester doins - catching up on email now), but I've heard of folks using: 

CleverSafe: http://www.cleversafe.com/
Amazon S3: http://aws.amazon.com/s3/
and of course Iron Mountain: http://www.ironmountain.com/index.asp

And for any services, here's a questionaire to make them answer: http://www.nedcc.org/resources/digital/downloads/QuestionstoAskProvidersofDigitalStoragefinal.pdf

(NEDCC is one of the "go to" organizations for preservation/convervation)

Do we have any idea what their budget looks like in terms of data preservation, and how much data they have? Since it's "international," are their international partners that would be willing to host an offsite backup? If the amt of data is small enough (1TB or under) it would probably be worth it just to get folks willing to host regular incremental backups on 3 different continents and do simple integrity checks -- doesn't hafta be too sophisticated!

Of course, I have no idea what the background to this discussion is, so I could be way off base.

Cheers,
Rach

On Wed, 13 May 2009 16:51:05 -0400, Andrew Armstrong <andrew at aarmstrong.org> wrote:

> Oh, also one thing; if anyone has any ideas on good 3rd party backup and  
> storage places (or if you can offer such a service free of charge to the  
> IGDA) that'd be awesome. As far as I know they'll be staying with  
> USA-base Pair hosting, so that might need to be taken into account, but  
> I'd certainly like to see the data secured by something other then a  
> RAID array and perhaps partial backup, or whatever is currently assumed  
> to work.
>
> Andrew
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation


-- 
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

From donahrm at gmail.com  Tue May 26 15:36:52 2009
From: donahrm at gmail.com (Rachel "Sheepy" Donahue)
Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 15:36:52 -0400
Subject: [game_preservation] XBLA, Wiiware,
 and maybe the future of releasing all games + intro
In-Reply-To: <4A1C02E5.2080804@aarmstrong.org>
References: <FA0D9708-5E3B-4A9D-93AC-561BC45453E4@gmail.com>
	<4A1B4DFE.9080101@stanford.edu>
	<E435F0C3-1556-4205-BBFA-A7B243438594@gmail.com>
	<9d1cf2d50905260656p5a22ec30n976e8ac97e1710d2@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A1C02E5.2080804@aarmstrong.org>
Message-ID: <op.uujx3qs0fmh8gn@sherpa.westell.com>

Devin says:
"Regarding an international group, this would have been something mentioned before I joined. This was ultimately a goal that I had in mind as well, but I don't think a truly international repository could be established simply because of copyright laws in different countries."

I don't think the laws are the biggest barrier -- the companies themselves are, which is something I hope to investigate (and maybe mediate) further this year.


Steven says:

"Dutch student Reinwardt Acadamy of Cultural Heritage. And currently very busy with a paper about preservation of the world of video games. This mailinglist and its archive have been very helpful. So thank you for that."

I'm a student at the American University of Maryland doing the same thing -- we should talk :)

"It probably is not the biggest issue out there right now. And I do not know very much about the future of releasing games. However I have come across some speculation here and there that games will be released (downloads) and/or played solely via internet. So nothing tangible will be put out on the market anymore."

Anything related to cloud computing/serverside software makes me run in terror. It actually may be the BIGGEST issue facing current digital preservation... but we haven't even really dealt with static, local files/software yet. And we can't really move on until we do.


"This fact is not very helpful when you plan upon collecting these games at a later stage (retrospective collecting). However the hit games tend to resurface on other formats/media." 

Sure they do.. but the illegal ports/emulated copies are often better than those created by the original company! The example that springs to mind immediately is Bubsy for the SNES (originally made for it) and the Sega Genesis (the sound is SO bad), but I know there are others -- compare many "classic hits" releases to their emulated counterparts and it will be obvious.

"The DMCA exemption grants some preservation work to be done..for now."

You may not have been on the list when this was discussed, but to sum: forget about that exemption for at least the next 3 years. It was not renewed. There ARE, however, some exemptions for reverse engineering DRM tech, which I'm sure will prove useful in the future.

From sa.vanstelten at gmail.com  Tue May 26 17:54:06 2009
From: sa.vanstelten at gmail.com (Steven van Stelten)
Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 23:54:06 +0200
Subject: [game_preservation] XBLA, Wiiware,
	and maybe the future of releasing all games + intro
In-Reply-To: <op.uujx3qs0fmh8gn@sherpa.westell.com>
References: <FA0D9708-5E3B-4A9D-93AC-561BC45453E4@gmail.com>
	<4A1B4DFE.9080101@stanford.edu>
	<E435F0C3-1556-4205-BBFA-A7B243438594@gmail.com>
	<9d1cf2d50905260656p5a22ec30n976e8ac97e1710d2@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A1C02E5.2080804@aarmstrong.org>
	<op.uujx3qs0fmh8gn@sherpa.westell.com>
Message-ID: <E197FB62-C16B-4324-A6F0-0C140FD9CBE1@gmail.com>

Hello Rachel,

Thank you for the comments. Did not hear about the Bubsy thing till  
now (rabbit right?). But am aware of the different qualities of  
emulation (not the specifics though). I just recently started looking  
somewhat more in depth in the copyright issue. However this whole DMCA  
exemption thing looked like somewhat of a reach-out  or something in  
that vein. And the MMOs look like the mammoths I guess in this matter.
On another note, how is the survey going?

Kind regards,

Steven

On May 26, 2009, at 9:36 PM, Rachel Sheepy Donahue wrote:

> Devin says:
> "Regarding an international group, this would have been something  
> mentioned before I joined. This was ultimately a goal that I had in  
> mind as well, but I don't think a truly international repository  
> could be established simply because of copyright laws in different  
> countries."
>
> I don't think the laws are the biggest barrier -- the companies  
> themselves are, which is something I hope to investigate (and maybe  
> mediate) further this year.
>
>
> Steven says:
>
> "Dutch student Reinwardt Acadamy of Cultural Heritage. And currently  
> very busy with a paper about preservation of the world of video  
> games. This mailinglist and its archive have been very helpful. So  
> thank you for that."
>
> I'm a student at the American University of Maryland doing the same  
> thing -- we should talk :)
>
> "It probably is not the biggest issue out there right now. And I do  
> not know very much about the future of releasing games. However I  
> have come across some speculation here and there that games will be  
> released (downloads) and/or played solely via internet. So nothing  
> tangible will be put out on the market anymore."
>
> Anything related to cloud computing/serverside software makes me run  
> in terror. It actually may be the BIGGEST issue facing current  
> digital preservation... but we haven't even really dealt with  
> static, local files/software yet. And we can't really move on until  
> we do.
>
>
> "This fact is not very helpful when you plan upon collecting these  
> games at a later stage (retrospective collecting). However the hit  
> games tend to resurface on other formats/media."
>
> Sure they do.. but the illegal ports/emulated copies are often  
> better than those created by the original company! The example that  
> springs to mind immediately is Bubsy for the SNES (originally made  
> for it) and the Sega Genesis (the sound is SO bad), but I know there  
> are others -- compare many "classic hits" releases to their emulated  
> counterparts and it will be obvious.
>
> "The DMCA exemption grants some preservation work to be done..for  
> now."
>
> You may not have been on the list when this was discussed, but to  
> sum: forget about that exemption for at least the next 3 years. It  
> was not renewed. There ARE, however, some exemptions for reverse  
> engineering DRM tech, which I'm sure will prove useful in the future.
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation


From andrew at aarmstrong.org  Tue May 26 19:22:25 2009
From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong)
Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 00:22:25 +0100
Subject: [game_preservation] [Monthly SIG Roundup] May 2009
In-Reply-To: <op.uujln0bdfmh8gn@sherpa.westell.com>
References: <4A094FB9.2060003@aarmstrong.org>
	<4A09512C.2040208@aarmstrong.org>	<9d1cf2d50905120743k3b5c2100va08e0514af04da70@mail.gmail.com>	<4A09B0C5.6080000@stanford.edu>
	<4A0AAAB7.8070608@aarmstrong.org>	<4A0AF882.2030706@stanford.edu>
	<4A0B32B9.1000201@aarmstrong.org>
	<op.uujln0bdfmh8gn@sherpa.westell.com>
Message-ID: <4A1C79B1.8000302@aarmstrong.org>

Thanks a lot!

Rachel "Sheepy" Donahue wrote:
> Little late to this party (was wrapped up in end of the semester doins - catching up on email now), but I've heard of folks using: 
>
> CleverSafe: http://www.cleversafe.com/
> Amazon S3: http://aws.amazon.com/s3/
> and of course Iron Mountain: http://www.ironmountain.com/index.asp
>
> And for any services, here's a questionaire to make them answer: http://www.nedcc.org/resources/digital/downloads/QuestionstoAskProvidersofDigitalStoragefinal.pdf
>
> (NEDCC is one of the "go to" organizations for preservation/convervation)
>
> Do we have any idea what their budget looks like in terms of data preservation, and how much data they have? Since it's "international," are their international partners that would be willing to host an offsite backup? If the amt of data is small enough (1TB or under) it would probably be worth it just to get folks willing to host regular incremental backups on 3 different continents and do simple integrity checks -- doesn't hafta be too sophisticated!
>
> Of course, I have no idea what the background to this discussion is, so I could be way off base.
>
> Cheers,
> Rach
>
> On Wed, 13 May 2009 16:51:05 -0400, Andrew Armstrong <andrew at aarmstrong.org> wrote:
>
>   
>> Oh, also one thing; if anyone has any ideas on good 3rd party backup and  
>> storage places (or if you can offer such a service free of charge to the  
>> IGDA) that'd be awesome. As far as I know they'll be staying with  
>> USA-base Pair hosting, so that might need to be taken into account, but  
>> I'd certainly like to see the data secured by something other then a  
>> RAID array and perhaps partial backup, or whatever is currently assumed  
>> to work.
>>
>> Andrew
>> _______________________________________________
>> game_preservation mailing list
>> game_preservation at igda.org
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>>     
>
>
>   
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From dmonnens at gmail.com  Thu May 28 19:19:01 2009
From: dmonnens at gmail.com (Devin Monnens)
Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 17:19:01 -0600
Subject: [game_preservation] IGN is closing the Gamespy and Classicgaming
	networks
Message-ID: <9d1cf2d50905281619g8c2d034h5a361be9dd2fc7c7@mail.gmail.com>

IGN has announced they will no longer be hosting the Gamespy and
Classicgaming networks (but that they will still keep Fileplanet alive). I
think they did this to cut costs in a season of bad economy - but it's not
like I enjoyed IGN anyway.

However, this raises a problem. As some of you may know, I run a
Classicgaming domain, The Metroid Database, and so we've been talking
amongst ourselves about where the site will be going - and so is everyone
else who is running a site. Right now, I'm waiting to hear back from
Classicgaming to see where they are deciding to go, but I just wanted to
give you guys a heads-up that it's very possible some of these sites will be
going down for good, and that means the SIG has an opportunity to make sure
these pages get saved and archived.

Again, this was literally announced last night, and so I don't know if the
Classicgaming guys even know what they'll be doing. If Classicgaming will
retain its own domain and pay for the hosted sites, then that will be good.
Otherwise, places will be moving elsewhere and may be lost entirely.

-Devin Monnens

-- 
Devin Monnens
www.deserthat.com

The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
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From andrew at aarmstrong.org  Thu May 28 19:29:57 2009
From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 00:29:57 +0100
Subject: [game_preservation] IGN is closing the Gamespy and
 Classicgaming networks
In-Reply-To: <9d1cf2d50905281619g8c2d034h5a361be9dd2fc7c7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9d1cf2d50905281619g8c2d034h5a361be9dd2fc7c7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A1F1E75.4020603@aarmstrong.org>

I'll really have to get into the web archiving stuff, get some crawlers 
running off my PC for things like this and get some hard drives to store 
it all on - for the Web Archive Team efforts I'd hope.

Start backing up those DB's now - ask that everyone gets their material 
into an offline location and, if they'd like, posted on the net or sent 
to us - I am hoping to get a collection for zipped up website content on 
the Internet Archive which is good for things like that which would 
bypass filters. There are several games basically only covered on 
Gamespy/Classicgaming - one good example, for instance, is Team Fortress 
Classic, which after getting nostalgic, really took me forever to find 
any information on, videos of, screenshots etc. except there.

Also, on a personal note - this is pretty bad from IGN (although at 
least it's with a warning), I doubt it'd save them too much money in the 
long run, rather then reusing the sites or attempting to improve them 
first. I am however surprised, in a way, it "took so long" since the 
mergers and other problems they have had with Gamespy. I'll also be 
looking to at some point in the future do a massive file download of 
important files on Fileplanet (I'll ask permission first, but as they 
don't own any of the files on there anyway, apart from possibly getting 
a premium account to help with it there's little need to) since they 
won't likely get any of that archived if they did decide to shut that 
part down, which I'd see happening at some point in the future if they 
move such stuff to IGN's main site.

Thanks for bringing it up, I'll try and get a news post up about it.

Andrew

Devin Monnens wrote:
> IGN has announced they will no longer be hosting the Gamespy and 
> Classicgaming networks (but that they will still keep Fileplanet 
> alive). I think they did this to cut costs in a season of bad economy 
> - but it's not like I enjoyed IGN anyway.
>
> However, this raises a problem. As some of you may know, I run a 
> Classicgaming domain, The Metroid Database, and so we've been talking 
> amongst ourselves about where the site will be going - and so is 
> everyone else who is running a site. Right now, I'm waiting to hear 
> back from Classicgaming to see where they are deciding to go, but I 
> just wanted to give you guys a heads-up that it's very possible some 
> of these sites will be going down for good, and that means the SIG has 
> an opportunity to make sure these pages get saved and archived.
>
> Again, this was literally announced last night, and so I don't know if 
> the Classicgaming guys even know what they'll be doing. If 
> Classicgaming will retain its own domain and pay for the hosted sites, 
> then that will be good. Otherwise, places will be moving elsewhere and 
> may be lost entirely.
>
> -Devin Monnens
>
> -- 
> Devin Monnens
> www.deserthat.com <http://www.deserthat.com>
>
> The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>   
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From dmonnens at gmail.com  Thu May 28 19:40:11 2009
From: dmonnens at gmail.com (Devin Monnens)
Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 17:40:11 -0600
Subject: [game_preservation] IGN is closing the Gamespy and
	Classicgaming networks
In-Reply-To: <9d1cf2d50905281638s3ca0fd72w28168dcb0f6e7dd7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9d1cf2d50905281619g8c2d034h5a361be9dd2fc7c7@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A1F1E75.4020603@aarmstrong.org>
	<9d1cf2d50905281638s3ca0fd72w28168dcb0f6e7dd7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9d1cf2d50905281640u28159e82pfc71918298766479@mail.gmail.com>

By the way, the guys at Kontek are offering free hosting for all
Classicgaming refugees, so it's likely many will find their way to
domain.kontek.com
So there might not be a need for a total panic just yet, but I figured I'd
at least get the info out there...

-Devin

On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 5:38 PM, Devin Monnens <dmonnens at gmail.com> wrote:

> The deadline they gave is midnight, August 31. They claim it would be too
> expensive to upgrade their servers:
> "We're moving our datacenter and the hosting platform is not compatible.
> The cost and resources to upgrade it are not realistically possible in the
> timeframe we have available for the move, so unfortunately this has forced
> us to make this very tough decision."
>
> Personally, I think it's a horrible decision on IGN's part and I'll be
> certain to let everyone I talk to know that.
>
> You're welcome to have a complete backup of the Metroid Database. I don't
> know how much is on the site (not including the Fileplanet files) but I've
> initiated a backup of the site proper that I'll be burning to DVD later
> (using my new burner, too :) However, it's a living site, so we'll certainly
> have a few additions between now and August 31 (especially with the Metroid
> Prime Trilogy coming out).
>
> If I don't hear back from Classicgaming within the next few days, I'll post
> a message on the forums about this and also contact all the admins I know.
>
> -Devin
>
>
> On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 5:29 PM, Andrew Armstrong <andrew at aarmstrong.org>wrote:
>
>>  I'll really have to get into the web archiving stuff, get some crawlers
>> running off my PC for things like this and get some hard drives to store it
>> all on - for the Web Archive Team efforts I'd hope.
>>
>> Start backing up those DB's now - ask that everyone gets their material
>> into an offline location and, if they'd like, posted on the net or sent to
>> us - I am hoping to get a collection for zipped up website content on the
>> Internet Archive which is good for things like that which would bypass
>> filters. There are several games basically only covered on
>> Gamespy/Classicgaming - one good example, for instance, is Team Fortress
>> Classic, which after getting nostalgic, really took me forever to find any
>> information on, videos of, screenshots etc. except there.
>>
>> Also, on a personal note - this is pretty bad from IGN (although at least
>> it's with a warning), I doubt it'd save them too much money in the long run,
>> rather then reusing the sites or attempting to improve them first. I am
>> however surprised, in a way, it "took so long" since the mergers and other
>> problems they have had with Gamespy. I'll also be looking to at some point
>> in the future do a massive file download of important files on Fileplanet
>> (I'll ask permission first, but as they don't own any of the files on there
>> anyway, apart from possibly getting a premium account to help with it
>> there's little need to) since they won't likely get any of that archived if
>> they did decide to shut that part down, which I'd see happening at some
>> point in the future if they move such stuff to IGN's main site.
>>
>> Thanks for bringing it up, I'll try and get a news post up about it.
>>
>> Andrew
>>
>> Devin Monnens wrote:
>>
>> IGN has announced they will no longer be hosting the Gamespy and
>> Classicgaming networks (but that they will still keep Fileplanet alive). I
>> think they did this to cut costs in a season of bad economy - but it's not
>> like I enjoyed IGN anyway.
>>
>> However, this raises a problem. As some of you may know, I run a
>> Classicgaming domain, The Metroid Database, and so we've been talking
>> amongst ourselves about where the site will be going - and so is everyone
>> else who is running a site. Right now, I'm waiting to hear back from
>> Classicgaming to see where they are deciding to go, but I just wanted to
>> give you guys a heads-up that it's very possible some of these sites will be
>> going down for good, and that means the SIG has an opportunity to make sure
>> these pages get saved and archived.
>>
>> Again, this was literally announced last night, and so I don't know if the
>> Classicgaming guys even know what they'll be doing. If Classicgaming will
>> retain its own domain and pay for the hosted sites, then that will be good.
>> Otherwise, places will be moving elsewhere and may be lost entirely.
>>
>> -Devin Monnens
>>
>> --
>> Devin Monnens
>> www.deserthat.com
>>
>> The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> _______________________________________________
>> game_preservation mailing listgame_preservation at igda.orghttp://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> game_preservation mailing list
>> game_preservation at igda.org
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Devin Monnens
> www.deserthat.com
>
> The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
>



-- 
Devin Monnens
www.deserthat.com

The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
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From dmonnens at gmail.com  Thu May 28 19:38:59 2009
From: dmonnens at gmail.com (Devin Monnens)
Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 17:38:59 -0600
Subject: [game_preservation] IGN is closing the Gamespy and
	Classicgaming networks
In-Reply-To: <4A1F1E75.4020603@aarmstrong.org>
References: <9d1cf2d50905281619g8c2d034h5a361be9dd2fc7c7@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A1F1E75.4020603@aarmstrong.org>
Message-ID: <9d1cf2d50905281638s3ca0fd72w28168dcb0f6e7dd7@mail.gmail.com>

The deadline they gave is midnight, August 31. They claim it would be too
expensive to upgrade their servers:
"We're moving our datacenter and the hosting platform is not compatible. The
cost and resources to upgrade it are not realistically possible in the
timeframe we have available for the move, so unfortunately this has forced
us to make this very tough decision."

Personally, I think it's a horrible decision on IGN's part and I'll be
certain to let everyone I talk to know that.

You're welcome to have a complete backup of the Metroid Database. I don't
know how much is on the site (not including the Fileplanet files) but I've
initiated a backup of the site proper that I'll be burning to DVD later
(using my new burner, too :) However, it's a living site, so we'll certainly
have a few additions between now and August 31 (especially with the Metroid
Prime Trilogy coming out).

If I don't hear back from Classicgaming within the next few days, I'll post
a message on the forums about this and also contact all the admins I know.

-Devin

On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 5:29 PM, Andrew Armstrong <andrew at aarmstrong.org>wrote:

>  I'll really have to get into the web archiving stuff, get some crawlers
> running off my PC for things like this and get some hard drives to store it
> all on - for the Web Archive Team efforts I'd hope.
>
> Start backing up those DB's now - ask that everyone gets their material
> into an offline location and, if they'd like, posted on the net or sent to
> us - I am hoping to get a collection for zipped up website content on the
> Internet Archive which is good for things like that which would bypass
> filters. There are several games basically only covered on
> Gamespy/Classicgaming - one good example, for instance, is Team Fortress
> Classic, which after getting nostalgic, really took me forever to find any
> information on, videos of, screenshots etc. except there.
>
> Also, on a personal note - this is pretty bad from IGN (although at least
> it's with a warning), I doubt it'd save them too much money in the long run,
> rather then reusing the sites or attempting to improve them first. I am
> however surprised, in a way, it "took so long" since the mergers and other
> problems they have had with Gamespy. I'll also be looking to at some point
> in the future do a massive file download of important files on Fileplanet
> (I'll ask permission first, but as they don't own any of the files on there
> anyway, apart from possibly getting a premium account to help with it
> there's little need to) since they won't likely get any of that archived if
> they did decide to shut that part down, which I'd see happening at some
> point in the future if they move such stuff to IGN's main site.
>
> Thanks for bringing it up, I'll try and get a news post up about it.
>
> Andrew
>
> Devin Monnens wrote:
>
> IGN has announced they will no longer be hosting the Gamespy and
> Classicgaming networks (but that they will still keep Fileplanet alive). I
> think they did this to cut costs in a season of bad economy - but it's not
> like I enjoyed IGN anyway.
>
> However, this raises a problem. As some of you may know, I run a
> Classicgaming domain, The Metroid Database, and so we've been talking
> amongst ourselves about where the site will be going - and so is everyone
> else who is running a site. Right now, I'm waiting to hear back from
> Classicgaming to see where they are deciding to go, but I just wanted to
> give you guys a heads-up that it's very possible some of these sites will be
> going down for good, and that means the SIG has an opportunity to make sure
> these pages get saved and archived.
>
> Again, this was literally announced last night, and so I don't know if the
> Classicgaming guys even know what they'll be doing. If Classicgaming will
> retain its own domain and pay for the hosted sites, then that will be good.
> Otherwise, places will be moving elsewhere and may be lost entirely.
>
> -Devin Monnens
>
> --
> Devin Monnens
> www.deserthat.com
>
> The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
>
> ------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing listgame_preservation at igda.orghttp://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>
>


-- 
Devin Monnens
www.deserthat.com

The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
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From trixter at oldskool.org  Thu May 28 20:08:44 2009
From: trixter at oldskool.org (Jim Leonard)
Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 19:08:44 -0500
Subject: [game_preservation] IGN is closing the Gamespy and
 Classicgaming networks
In-Reply-To: <4A1F1E75.4020603@aarmstrong.org>
References: <9d1cf2d50905281619g8c2d034h5a361be9dd2fc7c7@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A1F1E75.4020603@aarmstrong.org>
Message-ID: <4A1F278C.50403@oldskool.org>

Andrew Armstrong wrote:
> I'll really have to get into the web archiving stuff, get some crawlers 
> running off my PC for things like this and get some hard drives to store 
> it all on - for the Web Archive Team efforts I'd hope.

Also, Jason Scott's "Archive Team" (http://www.archiveteam.org) should 
probably be contacted.  They have a good portion of Geocities archived, 
and if they can do that, they can probably suck down Classicgaming.
-- 
Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org)            http://www.oldskool.org/
Help our electronic games project:           http://www.mobygames.com/
Or check out some trippy MindCandy at     http://www.mindcandydvd.com/
A child borne of the home computer wars: http://trixter.wordpress.com/

From andrew at aarmstrong.org  Fri May 29 05:10:41 2009
From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 10:10:41 +0100
Subject: [game_preservation] IGN is closing the Gamespy and
 Classicgaming networks
In-Reply-To: <4A1F278C.50403@oldskool.org>
References: <9d1cf2d50905281619g8c2d034h5a361be9dd2fc7c7@mail.gmail.com>	<4A1F1E75.4020603@aarmstrong.org>
	<4A1F278C.50403@oldskool.org>
Message-ID: <4A1FA691.6010509@aarmstrong.org>

Yeah, that's the web team I was referring to, I wish they had "Web" at 
the start of it to make my version right, hehe :)

I should get on their IRC channel about this, this week hopefully, I'm 
sure they'd have some hands to help.

Andrew

Jim Leonard wrote:
> Andrew Armstrong wrote:
>> I'll really have to get into the web archiving stuff, get some 
>> crawlers running off my PC for things like this and get some hard 
>> drives to store it all on - for the Web Archive Team efforts I'd hope.
>
> Also, Jason Scott's "Archive Team" (http://www.archiveteam.org) should 
> probably be contacted.  They have a good portion of Geocities 
> archived, and if they can do that, they can probably suck down 
> Classicgaming.

From andrew at aarmstrong.org  Sat May 30 15:22:09 2009
From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong)
Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 20:22:09 +0100
Subject: [game_preservation] IGN is closing the Gamespy and
 Classicgaming networks
In-Reply-To: <9d1cf2d50905281619g8c2d034h5a361be9dd2fc7c7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9d1cf2d50905281619g8c2d034h5a361be9dd2fc7c7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A218761.2020401@aarmstrong.org>

Hey Devin!

Any links to a press release/article about this? and any more info? 
(exact dates, who is responsible, email addresses...)

I'm going to contact the Archive Team about it, though it'd be good to 
link to the relevant info on it (I've searched IGN.com and Google for 
info but nothing has come up).

Andrew

Devin Monnens wrote:
> IGN has announced they will no longer be hosting the Gamespy and 
> Classicgaming networks (but that they will still keep Fileplanet 
> alive). I think they did this to cut costs in a season of bad economy 
> - but it's not like I enjoyed IGN anyway.
>
> However, this raises a problem. As some of you may know, I run a 
> Classicgaming domain, The Metroid Database, and so we've been talking 
> amongst ourselves about where the site will be going - and so is 
> everyone else who is running a site. Right now, I'm waiting to hear 
> back from Classicgaming to see where they are deciding to go, but I 
> just wanted to give you guys a heads-up that it's very possible some 
> of these sites will be going down for good, and that means the SIG has 
> an opportunity to make sure these pages get saved and archived.
>
> Again, this was literally announced last night, and so I don't know if 
> the Classicgaming guys even know what they'll be doing. If 
> Classicgaming will retain its own domain and pay for the hosted sites, 
> then that will be good. Otherwise, places will be moving elsewhere and 
> may be lost entirely.
>
> -Devin Monnens
>
> -- 
> Devin Monnens
> www.deserthat.com <http://www.deserthat.com>
>
> The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>   
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From dmonnens at gmail.com  Sat May 30 15:37:10 2009
From: dmonnens at gmail.com (Devin Monnens)
Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 13:37:10 -0600
Subject: [game_preservation] IGN is closing the Gamespy and
	Classicgaming networks
In-Reply-To: <4A218761.2020401@aarmstrong.org>
References: <9d1cf2d50905281619g8c2d034h5a361be9dd2fc7c7@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A218761.2020401@aarmstrong.org>
Message-ID: <9d1cf2d50905301237ue3d8202h3cad1898bad64134@mail.gmail.com>

Unsurprising that they're keeping it quiet. I suppose if word of this got
out, there'd be a big uproar. Heh - maybe we should do it as front page news
on the MDb!

http://hosting.ign.com/faq.php

Here's the hosting requester site.

http://kontek.net/

-Devin

On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 1:22 PM, Andrew Armstrong <andrew at aarmstrong.org>wrote:

>  Hey Devin!
>
> Any links to a press release/article about this? and any more info? (exact
> dates, who is responsible, email addresses...)
>
> I'm going to contact the Archive Team about it, though it'd be good to link
> to the relevant info on it (I've searched IGN.com and Google for info but
> nothing has come up).
>
> Andrew
>
> Devin Monnens wrote:
>
> IGN has announced they will no longer be hosting the Gamespy and
> Classicgaming networks (but that they will still keep Fileplanet alive). I
> think they did this to cut costs in a season of bad economy - but it's not
> like I enjoyed IGN anyway.
>
> However, this raises a problem. As some of you may know, I run a
> Classicgaming domain, The Metroid Database, and so we've been talking
> amongst ourselves about where the site will be going - and so is everyone
> else who is running a site. Right now, I'm waiting to hear back from
> Classicgaming to see where they are deciding to go, but I just wanted to
> give you guys a heads-up that it's very possible some of these sites will be
> going down for good, and that means the SIG has an opportunity to make sure
> these pages get saved and archived.
>
> Again, this was literally announced last night, and so I don't know if the
> Classicgaming guys even know what they'll be doing. If Classicgaming will
> retain its own domain and pay for the hosted sites, then that will be good.
> Otherwise, places will be moving elsewhere and may be lost entirely.
>
> -Devin Monnens
>
> --
> Devin Monnens
> www.deserthat.com
>
> The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing listgame_preservation at igda.orghttp://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>
>


-- 
Devin Monnens
www.deserthat.com

The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
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From andrew at aarmstrong.org  Sat May 30 16:12:34 2009
From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong)
Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 21:12:34 +0100
Subject: [game_preservation] IGN is closing the Gamespy
 and	Classicgaming networks
In-Reply-To: <9d1cf2d50905301237ue3d8202h3cad1898bad64134@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9d1cf2d50905281619g8c2d034h5a361be9dd2fc7c7@mail.gmail.com>	<4A218761.2020401@aarmstrong.org>
	<9d1cf2d50905301237ue3d8202h3cad1898bad64134@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A219332.7020705@aarmstrong.org>

Thanks a lot!

Andrew

Devin Monnens wrote:
> Unsurprising that they're keeping it quiet. I suppose if word of this 
> got out, there'd be a big uproar. Heh - maybe we should do it as front 
> page news on the MDb!
>
> http://hosting.ign.com/faq.php
>
> Here's the hosting requester site.
>
> http://kontek.net/
>
> -Devin
>
> On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 1:22 PM, Andrew Armstrong 
> <andrew at aarmstrong.org <mailto:andrew at aarmstrong.org>> wrote:
>
>     Hey Devin!
>
>     Any links to a press release/article about this? and any more
>     info? (exact dates, who is responsible, email addresses...)
>
>     I'm going to contact the Archive Team about it, though it'd be
>     good to link to the relevant info on it (I've searched IGN.com and
>     Google for info but nothing has come up).
>
>     Andrew
>
>     Devin Monnens wrote:
>>     IGN has announced they will no longer be hosting the Gamespy and
>>     Classicgaming networks (but that they will still keep Fileplanet
>>     alive). I think they did this to cut costs in a season of bad
>>     economy - but it's not like I enjoyed IGN anyway.
>>
>>     However, this raises a problem. As some of you may know, I run a
>>     Classicgaming domain, The Metroid Database, and so we've been
>>     talking amongst ourselves about where the site will be going -
>>     and so is everyone else who is running a site. Right now, I'm
>>     waiting to hear back from Classicgaming to see where they are
>>     deciding to go, but I just wanted to give you guys a heads-up
>>     that it's very possible some of these sites will be going down
>>     for good, and that means the SIG has an opportunity to make sure
>>     these pages get saved and archived.
>>
>>     Again, this was literally announced last night, and so I don't
>>     know if the Classicgaming guys even know what they'll be doing.
>>     If Classicgaming will retain its own domain and pay for the
>>     hosted sites, then that will be good. Otherwise, places will be
>>     moving elsewhere and may be lost entirely.
>>
>>     -Devin Monnens
>>
>>     -- 
>>     Devin Monnens
>>     www.deserthat.com <http://www.deserthat.com>
>>
>>     The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
>>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>     _______________________________________________ game_preservation
>>     mailing list game_preservation at igda.org
>>     <mailto:game_preservation at igda.org>
>>     http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     game_preservation mailing list
>     game_preservation at igda.org <mailto:game_preservation at igda.org>
>     http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Devin Monnens
> www.deserthat.com <http://www.deserthat.com>
>
> The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>   
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From andrew at aarmstrong.org  Sun May 31 19:00:22 2009
From: andrew at aarmstrong.org (Andrew Armstrong)
Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2009 00:00:22 +0100
Subject: [game_preservation] IGN is closing the Gamespy
 and	Classicgaming networks
In-Reply-To: <4A219332.7020705@aarmstrong.org>
References: <9d1cf2d50905281619g8c2d034h5a361be9dd2fc7c7@mail.gmail.com>	<4A218761.2020401@aarmstrong.org>	<9d1cf2d50905301237ue3d8202h3cad1898bad64134@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A219332.7020705@aarmstrong.org>
Message-ID: <4A230C06.4080600@aarmstrong.org>

Replying to myself, some news is up: 
http://www.igda.org/preservation/archives/2009/05/ign_hosted_site.html

I'll be in contact with the Archive Team once I get some time - probably 
Wednesday since I am busy Monday/Tuesday evenings. I forgot this weekend 
I was very busy (with ~7 hours travelling on buses today, damn stupid 
buses...although the event by the Retro Computer Museum was cool).

Spread the news so people know - and if anyone knows more specifics then 
my hazarded guess (ie; everything but basically the core IGN.com, 
Gamespy.com and FilePlanet.com sites are going - "vaults", "planets" and 
classic gaming), please say :)

Andrew

From dmonnens at gmail.com  Sun May 31 20:15:44 2009
From: dmonnens at gmail.com (Devin Monnens)
Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 18:15:44 -0600
Subject: [game_preservation] IGN is closing the Gamespy and
	Classicgaming networks
In-Reply-To: <4A230C06.4080600@aarmstrong.org>
References: <9d1cf2d50905281619g8c2d034h5a361be9dd2fc7c7@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A218761.2020401@aarmstrong.org>
	<9d1cf2d50905301237ue3d8202h3cad1898bad64134@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A219332.7020705@aarmstrong.org> <4A230C06.4080600@aarmstrong.org>
Message-ID: <9d1cf2d50905311715g72d5e80ama5df70adb7ff579@mail.gmail.com>

As far as I know, IGN is no longer hosting Gamespy, Planets, and
Classicgaming. Fileplanet is still up (for now) and they're letting us keep
our Fielplanet accounts. I REALLY wish we could hear back from
Classicgaming... :-/

Sorry about the bus. That's why I don't take them unless it's only one bus
and it goes in ONE direction WITHOUT any turns :) It's also why I like the
train better.

-Devin

On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 5:00 PM, Andrew Armstrong <andrew at aarmstrong.org>wrote:

> Replying to myself, some news is up:
> http://www.igda.org/preservation/archives/2009/05/ign_hosted_site.html
>
> I'll be in contact with the Archive Team once I get some time - probably
> Wednesday since I am busy Monday/Tuesday evenings. I forgot this weekend I
> was very busy (with ~7 hours travelling on buses today, damn stupid
> buses...although the event by the Retro Computer Museum was cool).
>
> Spread the news so people know - and if anyone knows more specifics then my
> hazarded guess (ie; everything but basically the core IGN.com, Gamespy.com
> and FilePlanet.com sites are going - "vaults", "planets" and classic
> gaming), please say :)
>
> Andrew
>
> _______________________________________________
> game_preservation mailing list
> game_preservation at igda.org
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation
>



-- 
Devin Monnens
www.deserthat.com

The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
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