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Thanks for the information, should be useful - if not as a direct
statement in the case study section, in the "current problems" section
we have.<br>
<br>
Andrew<br>
<br>
István Fábián wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:017501c95162$914828c0$450610ac@tg.scee.sony.co.uk"
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<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Some of those have been recovered,
but most are indeed MIA and known to exist.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">As for the number of Amiga titles
over 5000 commercial releases, some with very limited (few hundred
units) prints.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Istvan</font></div>
<div> </div>
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<div
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Original Message ----- </div>
<div
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<a moz-do-not-send="true" title="andrew@aarmstrong.org"
href="mailto:andrew@aarmstrong.org">Andrew Armstrong</a> </div>
<div
style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>To:</b>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" title="game_preservation@igda.org"
href="mailto:game_preservation@igda.org">IGDA Game Preservation SIG</a>
</div>
<div
style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Sent:</b>
Friday, November 28, 2008 1:55 PM</div>
<div
style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Subject:</b>
Re: [game_preservation] White Paper: Case Study Research!</div>
<div><br>
</div>
Wow, quite a list, although I'm not sure how many total Amiga games
exist that's a fair few which are MIA.<br>
<br>
Andrew<br>
<br>
István Fábián wrote:
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<div><font face="Arial" size="2">For the Amiga platform:</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"><a
href="http://hol.abime.net/hol_search.php?N_rarity=5"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://hol.abime.net/hol_search.php?N_rarity=5</a></font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Cheers,</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Istvan</font></div>
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<div
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Original Message ----- </div>
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<a title="andrew@aarmstrong.org"
href="mailto:andrew@aarmstrong.org" moz-do-not-send="true">Andrew
Armstrong</a> </div>
<div
style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>To:</b>
<a title="game_preservation@igda.org"
href="mailto:game_preservation@igda.org" moz-do-not-send="true">IGDA
Game Preservation SIG</a> </div>
<div
style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Sent:</b>
Friday, November 28, 2008 1:26 PM</div>
<div
style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Subject:</b>
Re: [game_preservation] White Paper: Case Study Research!</div>
<div><br>
</div>
Neat thoughts, there's a lot of areas for this section to go actually
and one is the entire loss of games, especially unreleased ones. I bet
a lot of developers must take in their stride cancellations - there's a
high percent which are cancelled at various stages, the worst being
close to going gold. Anyone know any more examples of them?<br>
<br>
Hmm, I'm thinking it might be better to make a fictional account up for
the case study. I'm not sure what'll work best myself, but lost games
are certainly one major thing.<br>
<br>
Andrew<br>
<br>
Stuart Feldhamer wrote:
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<div class="Section1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: 'Calibri','sans-serif';">To
me the greatest loss is when a game itself becomes lost. There have
been several cases in the past where a title was thought not to exist
or not to have been released despite the presence of ads for the title,
until a copy was eventually found. I believe the infamous Ultima:
Escape from Mt. Drash fits into that category. Well what if the game
had never been found and verified? Only a few copies are known to
exist. What if there are titles that we think don’t exist but really do
and have been lost?<O:P></O:P></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: 'Calibri','sans-serif';"><O:P></O:P></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: 'Calibri','sans-serif';">Even
if we are 99.9% sure that a game hasn’t been officially released, does
that mean it shouldn’t be preserved? There are some games that although
they were never released (to the best of our collective knowledge), may
have been complete or very close to complete and were just killed at
the end for financial reasons. One example that came up in discussion
not that long ago was Ultima 8: The Lost Vale expansion, for which a
box prototype turned up. The code may turn up at some point - it may
even be among the mass of materials that the Wing Commander fans got
from EA from the old Origin collection. But EA didn’t really care too
much about preserving that stuff, and so for now, the code is lost.
Another game that was killed close to the finish line and which I
personally mourned was Star Trek: The Secret of Vulcan Fury. DeForest
Kelley (Dr. McCoy) even recorded voice acting for that one before he
died and it presumably has been thrown in the garbage.<O:P></O:P></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: 'Calibri','sans-serif';"><O:P></O:P></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: 'Calibri','sans-serif';">I’m
not sure how this group feels about unreleased games, but I would think
that developers in particular would want to preserve them. I was
reading something on Gamasutra the other day where a developer was
saying that he’s been in the industry for 10 years (or something like
that) and only had 2 released titles, because the other 3 were
cancelled after the team had put in a lot of work. Should that work be
preserved, if it was at the point where the game was playable and
viable? Does the decision of a marketing exec ultimately define whether
or not we want to preserve a title? I realize there are intellectual
property laws in play here, but ultimately we have these “guerilla
preservationists” who will do what is needed despite the law, such as
finding an old Atari 2600 game prototype on cartridge and then dumping
it onto the net so it can be preserved.<O:P></O:P></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: 'Calibri','sans-serif';"><O:P></O:P></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: 'Calibri','sans-serif';">Anyway,
it’s late and I think I rambled a bit, but I hope I got some coherent
thought across. Happy Thanksgiving. : )<O:P></O:P></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: 'Calibri','sans-serif';"><O:P></O:P></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: 'Calibri','sans-serif';">Stuart<O:P></O:P></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: 'Calibri','sans-serif';"><O:P></O:P></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; color: windowtext; font-family: 'Tahoma','sans-serif';">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; color: windowtext; font-family: 'Tahoma','sans-serif';">
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:game_preservation-bounces@igda.org" moz-do-not-send="true">game_preservation-bounces@igda.org</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:game_preservation-bounces@igda.org" moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:game_preservation-bounces@igda.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Andrew Armstrong<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, November 21, 2008 7:48 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> IGDA Game Preservation SIG<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [game_preservation] White Paper: Case Study
Research!<O:P></O:P></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><O:P></O:P></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hey all you people with knowledge about
videogame history. There's one part of the white paper we could do with
major SIG work on as a whole - we've decided the majority of the paper
content, which you can check out here (comment on it if you like):<br>
<br>
<a
href="http://www.igda.org/wiki/Game_Preservation_SIG/White_Paper/Before_It%27s_Too_Late:_A_Digital_Game_Preservation_White_Paper"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.igda.org/wiki/Game_Preservation_SIG/White_Paper/Before_It%27s_Too_Late:_A_Digital_Game_Preservation_White_Paper</a><br>
<br>
The main part that we need information on is the Case Study: "What If
We Do Nothing?"<br>
<br>
This requires either a savvy fictional account of the future where we
don't preserve much of anything, or some good examples of what we have
already lost (a nice twist, we reveal this has already happened...<i>dun
dun dun!</i>).<br>
<br>
There are a few examples <a
href="http://www.igda.org/wiki/Game_Preservation_SIG/White_paper_brainstorm/Compelling_Examples#Examples_of_Historical_Works_lost_in_Videogames"
moz-do-not-send="true">brought up</a> before, but nothing much
detailed for a real-life example. This means we might have to come up
with a fictional account anyway, or a hybrid.<br>
<br>
So: ideas welcome! What's the worst story you can think of, or the
worst actual thing that's been lost so far!<br>
<br>
It's aimed at developers remember - not
historians/preservationists/archivists themselves (we already know how
important it all is) - so a relevant example for developers (crediting
of their works? people unable to play their games soon in the future?
simply them dropping off the face of the earth in historical terms?)
would be great.<br>
<br>
Thanks if anyone can help on this!<br>
<br>
Andrew<br>
<br>
PS: we still want logo ideas from an earlier thread, surely someone
must have some good ideas for them too ;) there's enough of you
listening to these emails I hope!<O:P></O:P></p>
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