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Hmm, fair enough. I think possibly 2008 was a "bit dead" in certain
ways, but there was promise, and some gems (No More Heroes and Sins of
a Solar Empire both are outstanding fun, for instance. There were also
a few Indie games I'd put weight behind for Canon for inventiveness,
like Braid). The thing is, history doesn't work in "Years". There were
some points where gamers basically had a half-dozen "Must play" games
in a Christmas period. Such a Christmas-centric industry (for some
bizarre reasoning) makes it either a "Good" or "Bad" year, instead of
those successes being spread out more.<br>
<br>
However, if you can remember off the top of your head even 5 games from
1998 that should be "canon" without checking release date lists, you'd
be better then me since I can't (it was a major year for sequels
though, since I know Opposing Force came out then for Half-Life) :)<br>
<br>
Andrew<br>
<br>
Stuart Feldhamer wrote:
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Whoops,
somehow I sent this just to Andrew.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Stuart<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div
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<div>
<div
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; color: windowtext;">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; color: windowtext;">
Stuart Feldhamer
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:stuart.feldhamer@gmail.com">mailto:stuart.feldhamer@gmail.com</a>] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, January 19, 2009 10:52 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Andrew Armstrong'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [game_preservation] Spring Cleaning the SIG+2009
ideas
(Please respond!)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">OK,
point taken on my comment about 10 games per year. That was
more of a whining complaint about how most games today are derivative
of
earlier works. And yes, I know that all media is derivative, I just
mean that
game released today are less likely to be worthy of canonization than
games
released 30 years ago, at least in my opinion.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Stuart<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div
style="border-style: none none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color blue; border-width: medium medium medium 1.5pt; padding: 0in 0in 0in 4pt;">
<div>
<div
style="border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color; border-width: 1pt medium medium; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; color: windowtext;">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; color: windowtext;">
Andrew Armstrong
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:andrew@aarmstrong.org">mailto:andrew@aarmstrong.org</a>] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, January 19, 2009 10:40 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:stuart@feldhamer.com">stuart@feldhamer.com</a>; IGDA Game Preservation SIG<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [game_preservation] Spring Cleaning the SIG+2009
ideas
(Please respond!)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I'll just respond to one point of this; no
awards. The sheer
fact the game is historical significant should be enough. "Winning"
something that you can get voted in every year until the earth explodes
also
isn't much of an accolade (or even, if one year you go up against
"stuff
competition" you'd be unable to ever win it again).<br>
<br>
Also, your point "I’m not sure that there are 10 culturally significant
games produced every year anymore" is...odd. As a historian you should
know that until you're 10 years (or more!) down the line you don't know
what a
historically significant game will be, especially since they don't have
to be "culturally"
significant, whatever that means ;) - they also don't have to be from
the same
year. While film has been going for longer, their registry has been
going for
MUCH longer. I think we'd be hard pressed not just having "classics"
for the future 10, maybe 20 or 30 years of these, which is only 100-300
games
or series'. For material, I don't think there is any lack of it for a
canon.<br>
<br>
We'll see if anyone else has thoughts on this, and Henry also knows
much more
about how he organised it too.<br>
<br>
Andrew<br>
<br>
Stuart Feldhamer wrote: <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">What
I propose would be something like this:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">First
of all, I think 10 games per year is too many. (As an
aside, I’m not sure that there are 10 culturally significant games
produced
every year anymore.) 10 games was good for the initial selection, but
for each
year, it probably should be no more than 5, to increase the value of a
game
getting in.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">A
nominating committee is established to pick initial
nominations (maybe 10). The nominating committee members should be
members of
the SIG. It would be nice if we can get Meretzky or Spector or the like
to be
on the nominating committee, but again, they should be members of the
SIG if
this is a SIG project. I would try to establish a process whereby
members of
the committee are willing to step down if someone more “worthy” for
lack of a
better word becomes willing to serve.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Once
initial nominations are made as a group by the committee to
the SIG, they are debated by the SIG members on this email list or the
subsequent forums. The committee reviews the feedback and may choose to
modify
their nomination selections as a result. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Once
the slate is final, it is put forward to the general
membership of the IGDA for voting. Say for example they can vote for 5
of the
10 nominations to make it into the canon. This should go out to the
membership
similar to the emails that go out for voting for the IGDA board, with
some time
period for responding.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">The
“winners” are presented at a GDC panel (without being
revealed in advance), with some kind of award given to the lead
developer/designer/producer/creative team/whatever. Since IGDA members
will
have voted, there will be much more buzz around this and a desire to
see who
wins, and I would be very surprised if this wasn’t something that GDC
would be
interested in hosting.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">As
an aside, we need to do a much better job of “canonizing”
those titles that do make it into the canon.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Stuart</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div
style="border-style: none none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color blue; border-width: medium medium medium 1.5pt; padding: 0in 0in 0in 4pt;">
<div>
<div
style="border-style: solid none none; border-color: -moz-use-text-color; border-width: 1pt medium medium; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; color: windowtext;">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; color: windowtext;">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:game_preservation-bounces@igda.org">game_preservation-bounces@igda.org</a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:game_preservation-bounces@igda.org">mailto:game_preservation-bounces@igda.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Andrew Armstrong<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, January 19, 2009 9:39 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> IGDA Game Preservation SIG<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [game_preservation] Spring Cleaning the SIG+2009
ideas
(Please respond!)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Yeah, I checked that out before responding
myself. They take
up to 50 votes per person, films must be 10 years old, and the votes
are taken
into account. It's interesting as a system (I might also have to email
them
about it, see how it is setup, how it runs in the background, etc.)<br>
<br>
The problem? we're so unknown that even Videogame
museums/archives/collections
don't know who we are. There simply isn't a critical mass of experts in
this
SIG, and certainly any votes like that for 50 games would be, well, a
dozen or
so maybe? It'd be a bit silly, to be honest. It'd also have to be
international, too, and for all the good game fans there are some who
love to
ballot stuff. I'll have to do some kind of online system I think if we
did the
public vote thing :)<br>
<br>
We'd need to setup a proper site. Devin; to respond to Gamastura or
whatever, I
have no idea about that, maybe that is a route. I still need to build a
site to
host some information about the canon games (like the NFR website to a
degree,
certainly better then a Wiki however, since it needs forms for ballots
etc.).<br>
<br>
I think the reason Matteo Bittanti helped was he's part of the Stanford
stuff -
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.stanford.edu/group/htgg/cgi-bin/drupal/?q=blog/15">http://www.stanford.edu/group/htgg/cgi-bin/drupal/?q=blog/15</a>
(and here: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://mbf.blogs.com/about.html">http://mbf.blogs.com/about.html</a>
), so academically inclined like Henry, and Christopher Grant was a
journalist
(and still, at Joystiq, who did express some interest in hosting a
monthly
"Game of Canon" or something), so had that perspective - it's
important of course not to just see what the developers and historians
think is
important, but what the press and players think is important too. I
also think
they were not just "oh, I have 2 picks, my faves can go in", they got
discussed.<br>
<br>
It was only a start, as far as I know Henry never intended it to be
like that
forever or anything, but I doubt you could get a set of games decided
on using
a complex system of voting (which needs to be done a full year in
advance) then
having a larger set of experts deciding - in 2007, there were much less
members
here then there were now too :)<br>
<br>
For last years I am sure Henry did some work on that and got 10 more
too, but I
can't recall who he mentioned helping, I think Simon Carless was
involved too
though.<br>
<br>
I'll look into this though as a serious project if you have some more
ideas.
Can you put forward what you think would be a "Perfect" system for
releasing up to 10 games per year into the Canon of games? How to
publicise it,
maybe how to get public votes in, and how the panel can decide on them
and when
in the year? (possibly do a years voting starting January 1st, and
decide the
years entries in the month of January onwards for the previous year -
so 2009
would have games released in 1998 or earlier added, etc....maybe do it
monthly)<br>
<br>
I'll jot down these ideas once people have had time to comment on the
entire
list - I'll note down all of this, all of your concerns and also "What
is
happening about the missing years" - we might just do a catchup of
them,
who knows?<br>
<br>
Andrew<br>
<br>
Stuart Feldhamer wrote: <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">OK,
so I can understand Steve Meretzky and Warren Spector, and
even Henry Lowood, but who are the other 2 people on the panel? I mean,
why
were they chosen?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Funny
you should mention the National Film Registry:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.loc.gov/film/vote.html">http://www.loc.gov/film/vote.html</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I
am still digesting your comments about collectors and oral
histories…</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Stuart</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="text-align: center;"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="text-align: center;"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="text-align: center;">
<hr align="center" size="4" width="90%">
</pre>
<pre style="text-align: center;"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="text-align: center;"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>game_preservation mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:game_preservation@igda.org">game_preservation@igda.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation">http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
</div>
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</div>
<pre wrap="">
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