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<font face="Georgia">Devin,<br>
<br>
IA has other collections for replays, speedruns and such -- as well as
machinima, for that matter. The Archiving Virtual Worlds collection is
more like what you are talking about, documentary footage of in-game
events and activities, plus live footage with people engaged with game
and virtual worlds.<br>
<br>
Henry<br>
</font><br>
Devin Monnens wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:b96706b70903091709jc28a1c1gcb529eb7a89d0b50@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">The interesting thing about game footage is currently most
of what we have is 'super play' footage; that is, players who try to
beat the game as quickly or efficiently as possible. That's not the
same as actual play, in which death and defeat is suffered and mistakes
made. It doesn't allow for elements such as exploration. 'How-to'
videos don't give that sense of exploration either, though they can be
informative. So essentially, the video database would be lacking if all
we had were superplays.<br>
<br>
-Devin<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 4:32 PM, Andrew
Armstrong <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:andrew@aarmstrong.org">andrew@aarmstrong.org</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">I'd like to agree with Henry
here on all counts. Videos are not
equivalent (nothing is except for a time machine), but I think
historians will prefer that to any re-enactments - as stated, while
Civil War guys might march around with full kit, but historians would
kill to have a video of the lives of those soldiers (or anyone else at
that time in history!).<br>
<br>
If we start saying it's "Not good enough" in any way we just need to go
back 100 years and see how little was filmed, and think how much we
miss in history because of it (and how much actual film, audio and
other culture has been lost permanently). It's easy to wave a hand if
it's all you know, but certainly I'd welcome much much more to the IA's
collections. I hope Henry got some good stuff of Tabular Rasa closing
for instance! Once in a games lifetime experience that, not something
that can ever be remade.<br>
<br>
On singleplayer: Let's Play's are awesome ;) Need to check and see if
any are being made of MMO's, there are a odd few around - gets the
experience with commentary, which is ace :) - footage is good, footage
with commentary (optional is best) is even better, which I intend to
try at some point.<br>
<br>
Reminded me to listen to these - I've added them to my MP3 player now,
I don't know why I forgot before.<br>
<font color="#888888"><br>
Andrew</font>
<div>
<div class="h5"><br>
<br>
Henry Lowood wrote:
<blockquote type="cite"> Hi Stuart,<br>
<br>
Well, I guess we disagree a little on the value of gameplay
documentation (which is not just video). My point was that
documenting a complex multi-player or massively multi-player world is
as much about documenting events that happen in those spaces as it is
about preserving software. I don't think that's marginal at all.<br>
<br>
If the focus is on "experiences," then I agree with you. That sort of
preservation is closer to re-enactment than history, however. Ok, yes,
it is possible that groups will get together to play Everquest in 100
years, just like they camp out in Civil War replica uniforms and fire
muskets in line. But that experience is NOT the experience of what
happens in virtual worlds today, i.e., it is not going to be history.
It is still going to take place 100 years from now, no matter how you
cut it. For similar reasons, I disagree strongly that playing with
bots is going to be informative, at least in terms of historical work. <br>
<br>
In Preserving Virtual Worlds, our goal is to do both -- software
preservation and "event" preservation (for want of a better term). My
emphasis on documentation of player behavior is more of a corrective to
the idea that it's all about software preservation than it is an
attempt to say we should only do video capture and gather
documentation. But if you put a gun to my head and say pick one or the
other, software or documentation, you can't have both, as a historian I
would go for documentation.<br>
<br>
Last, video capture of single-player games is absolutely useful; I
certainly agree with that statement. <br>
<br>
Henry<br>
<br>
Stuart Feldhamer wrote:
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I
just listened to both episodes. I thought they were very well
done, although I think they would both have been improved by video –
especially the one on collectors. You can’t begin to understand
collectors until you actually SEE some of their collections.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Henry,
you made a comment in the podcast that a single player
game can be booted up in 100 years and enjoyed, but a multi-player game
can’t
be, because it requires other people to play, and the guy won’t be able
to find other people to play it with him. Regardless if that is true or
not, it’s
impossible to preserve the actual experience of playing the game by
taking
video and screenshots. The only way the guy in 100 years is going to be
able to
have the experience of playing the game is if he manages to get a whole
bunch
of other people to play with him, or if we can design suitably
convincing bots
to take the place of the other players.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I
agree that gameplay videos have value, but the same applies to
gameplay videos of single player games. What is specifically added to
the mix
by preserving gameplay videos from multi-player games? It sounded from
the podcast
as if this was some kind of solution to the problem of preserving
multi-player
games in general. I think it’s useful, but it only adds marginally to
the
preservation of the game experience.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Stuart</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<div
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<div>
<div
style="border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color; border-width: 1pt medium medium; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;">
<p><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: windowtext;">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; color: windowtext;"> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:game_preservation-bounces@igda.org" target="_blank">game_preservation-bounces@igda.org</a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:game_preservation-bounces@igda.org" target="_blank">mailto:game_preservation-bounces@igda.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Henry
Lowood<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, March 04, 2009 1:11 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> IGDA Game Preservation SIG<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [game_preservation] A Life Well Wasted</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p> </p>
<p><span style="font-family: "Georgia","serif";">Some
of you may
be interested in the far-flung corners of the world that the Preserving
Virtual
Worlds project has reached. Others I know are intensely interested in
the
world of game collectors. In either case, check out Robert Ashley's
new
podcast, A Life Well Wasted:<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://alifewellwasted.com/feed/atom/" target="_blank">http://alifewellwasted.com/feed/atom/</a><br>
The second episode covers the world of game collectors, which I have to
say is
not so different in some ways from book collectors (said from a library
perspective). The last quarter or so is about our project. Robert
Ashley, the
man behind ALWW, has said on forums he might release the interview with
me in
its entirety. He is a bright guy and a great interviewer -- makes you
wonder about all the talent shaking loose from 1Up.<br>
Oh, the first podcast is also interesting, covering the history and
demise of
EGM.<br>
Henry</span> </p>
<div>
<p>-- </p>
<div>
<p><span style="font-family: "Georgia","serif";">Henry
Lowood,
Ph.D.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><span style="font-family: "Georgia","serif";">Curator
for
History of Science & Technology Collections;</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><span style="font-family: "Georgia","serif";"> Film
&
Media Collections</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><span style="font-family: "Georgia","serif";">HRG,
Green
Library, 557 Escondido Mall</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><span style="font-family: "Georgia","serif";">Stanford
University Libraries</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><span style="font-family: "Georgia","serif";">Stanford
CA
94305-6004</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><span style="font-family: "Georgia","serif";">650-723-4602; <a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:lowood@stanford.edu"
target="_blank">lowood@stanford.edu</a>; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.stanford.edu/%7Elowood" target="_blank">http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood</a></span>
</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<pre><hr size="4" width="90%">
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</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<div>-- <br>
<div><font face="Georgia">Henry Lowood, Ph.D.</font></div>
<div><font face="Georgia">Curator for History of Science &
Technology Collections;</font></div>
<div><font face="Georgia"> Film & Media Collections</font></div>
<div><font face="Georgia">HRG, Green Library, 557 Escondido Mall</font></div>
<div><font face="Georgia">Stanford University Libraries</font></div>
<div><font face="Georgia">Stanford CA 94305-6004</font></div>
<div><font face="Georgia">650-723-4602; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:lowood@stanford.edu" target="_blank">lowood@stanford.edu</a>;
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.stanford.edu/%7Elowood"
target="_blank">http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood</a></font> </div>
</div>
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target="_blank">http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
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<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<br clear="all">
<br>
-- <br>
The sleep of Reason produces monsters.<br>
<br>
"Until next time..."<br>
Captain Commando<br>
<pre wrap="">
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</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Henry Lowood
Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections;
Film & Media Collections
HRG, Green Library
557 Escondido Mall, Stanford University Libraries
Stanford CA 94305-6004 USA
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood">http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:lowood@stanford.edu">lowood@stanford.edu</a>; 650-723-4602
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