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I'd take the software for singleplayer because then you can make the
videos from it ;) you can't do that the other way around (the opposite
is true for the experiences of a multiplayer game - you can't recreate
it in software, but can at least record on perspective in video/sound).<br>
<br>
The podcast also was interesting (especially on the collector who was
much more open then some) - we do need to see about the related areas
of pinball and mechanical machines. Also need to sort the "Game Audio"
collection so we can get podcasts like this (and general gaming
podcasts) stored at the IA (man so many groups to contact for that,
even just retro / historical / critical podcasts or audio. I need some
students to pick on to help like you're able to get Henry :D ).<br>
<br>
Andrew<br>
<br>
Henry Lowood wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:49B5E4F8.6010203@stanford.edu" type="cite">
<meta content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type">
<font face="Georgia">Stuart,<br>
<br>
Yes, that's right for multiplayer games; for single player, I would
probably pick software, too. (Though of course, when you take the gun
away, I will want it all.)<br>
<br>
Henry<br>
</font><br>
Stuart Feldhamer wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:49b5e1cc.4403be0a.0179.7cb6@mx.google.com"
type="cite">
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<div class="Section1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Henry,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">It
sounds like we don’t disagree much at all,
actually. : ) I was talking about preserving the experience, and only
in
that context, but I agree that preserving the events in a multiplayer
world is
also important.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Bottom
line – you really can’t fully preserve the
experience of an MMO. That’s why I made sure to play Majestic before it
died, knowing it would die. Same for other MMOs like Uru. (Can you tell
I’m
more of an adventure gamer than an RPGer?)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">The
only place where we disagree is that although I want both,
if you put a gun to my head I would have to pick the software over the
documentation, at least for a single player game. Or were you only
talking
about MMOs?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Stuart<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div
style="border-style: none none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color blue; border-width: medium medium medium 1.5pt; padding: 0in 0in 0in 4pt;">
<div>
<div
style="border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color; border-width: 1pt medium medium; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; color: windowtext;">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; color: windowtext;">
Henry Lowood
[<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:lowood@stanford.edu">mailto:lowood@stanford.edu</a>] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, March 09, 2009 7:24 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:stuart@feldhamer.com">stuart@feldhamer.com</a>;
IGDA Game Preservation SIG<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [game_preservation] A Life Well Wasted<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Stuart,<br>
<br>
Well, I guess we disagree a little on the value of gameplay
documentation
(which is not just video). My point was that documenting a complex
multi-player or massively multi-player world is as much about
documenting
events that happen in those spaces as it is about preserving software.
I
don't think that's marginal at all.<br>
<br>
If the focus is on "experiences," then I agree with you. That sort of
preservation is closer to re-enactment than history, however. Ok, yes,
it
is possible that groups will get together to play Everquest in 100
years, just
like they camp out in Civil War replica uniforms and fire muskets in
line. But that experience is NOT the experience of what happens in
virtual worlds today, i.e., it is not going to be history. It is still
going to take place 100 years from now, no matter how you cut it. For
similar reasons, I disagree strongly that playing with bots is going to
be
informative, at least in terms of historical work. <br>
<br>
In Preserving Virtual Worlds, our goal is to do both -- software
preservation
and "event" preservation (for want of a better term). My
emphasis on documentation of player behavior is more of a corrective to
the
idea that it's all about software preservation than it is an attempt to
say we
should only do video capture and gather documentation. But if you put
a
gun to my head and say pick one or the other, software or
documentation, you
can't have both, as a historian I would go for documentation.<br>
<br>
Last, video capture of single-player games is absolutely useful; I
certainly
agree with that statement. <br>
<br>
Henry<br>
<br>
Stuart Feldhamer wrote: <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I
just listened to both episodes. I thought they were very well
done, although I think they would both have been improved by video –
especially the one on collectors. You can’t begin to understand
collectors until you actually SEE some of their collections.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Henry,
you made a comment in the podcast that a single player
game can be booted up in 100 years and enjoyed, but a multi-player game
can’t be, because it requires other people to play, and the guy
won’t be able to find other people to play it with him. Regardless if
that is true or not, it’s impossible to preserve the actual experience
of
playing the game by taking video and screenshots. The only way the guy
in 100
years is going to be able to have the experience of playing the game is
if he
manages to get a whole bunch of other people to play with him, or if we
can
design suitably convincing bots to take the place of the other players.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I
agree that gameplay videos have value, but the same applies to
gameplay videos of single player games. What is specifically added to
the mix
by preserving gameplay videos from multi-player games? It sounded from
the
podcast as if this was some kind of solution to the problem of
preserving
multi-player games in general. I think it’s useful, but it only adds
marginally to the preservation of the game experience.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Stuart</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div
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<div>
<div
style="border-style: solid none none; border-color: -moz-use-text-color; border-width: 1pt medium medium; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; color: windowtext;">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; color: windowtext;">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:game_preservation-bounces@igda.org">game_preservation-bounces@igda.org</a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:game_preservation-bounces@igda.org">mailto:game_preservation-bounces@igda.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Henry Lowood<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, March 04, 2009 1:11 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> IGDA Game Preservation SIG<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [game_preservation] A Life Well Wasted</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Georgia","serif";">Some
of you may be
interested in the far-flung corners of the world that the Preserving
Virtual
Worlds project has reached. Others I know are intensely interested in
the
world of game collectors. In either case, check out Robert Ashley's
new
podcast, A Life Well Wasted:<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://alifewellwasted.com/feed/atom/">http://alifewellwasted.com/feed/atom/</a><br>
The second episode covers the world of game collectors, which I have to
say is
not so different in some ways from book collectors (said from a library
perspective). The last quarter or so is about our project. Robert
Ashley, the
man behind ALWW, has said on forums he might release the interview with
me in
its entirety. He is a bright guy and a great interviewer -- makes you
wonder about all the talent shaking loose from 1Up.<br>
Oh, the first podcast is also interesting, covering the history and
demise of
EGM.<br>
Henry</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">-- <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Georgia","serif";">Henry
Lowood,
Ph.D.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Georgia","serif";">Curator
for
History of Science & Technology Collections;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Georgia","serif";"> Film
&
Media Collections</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Georgia","serif";">HRG,
Green
Library, 557 Escondido Mall</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Georgia","serif";">Stanford
University
Libraries</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Georgia","serif";">Stanford
CA
94305-6004</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Georgia","serif";">650-723-4602;
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:lowood@stanford.edu">lowood@stanford.edu</a>;
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.stanford.edu/%7Elowood">http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood</a></span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="text-align: center;"><hr align="center" size="4"
width="90%">
</pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>game_preservation mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:game_preservation@igda.org">game_preservation@igda.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation">http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">-- <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Georgia","serif";">Henry
Lowood,
Ph.D.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Georgia","serif";">Curator
for
History of Science & Technology Collections;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Georgia","serif";"> Film
&
Media Collections</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Georgia","serif";">HRG,
Green
Library, 557 Escondido Mall</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Georgia","serif";">Stanford
University Libraries</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Georgia","serif";">Stanford
CA
94305-6004</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: "Georgia","serif";">650-723-4602;
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:lowood@stanford.edu">lowood@stanford.edu</a>;
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.stanford.edu/%7Elowood">http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood</a></span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Henry Lowood
Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections;
Film & Media Collections
HRG, Green Library
557 Escondido Mall, Stanford University Libraries
Stanford CA 94305-6004 USA
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://www.stanford.edu/%7Elowood">http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:lowood@stanford.edu">lowood@stanford.edu</a>; 650-723-4602
</pre>
<pre wrap="">
<hr size="4" width="90%">
_______________________________________________
game_preservation mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:game_preservation@igda.org">game_preservation@igda.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation">http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
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