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Cool! I heard "good things" from Idle Thumbs, after Chris Remo stopped
dicking around saying he was a new player ;)<br>
<br>
Thought it'd be interesting to see, if I wasn't busy that weekend I'd
have gone in myself and got a bit of stuff.<br>
<br>
Andrew<br>
<br>
Henry Lowood wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:49B695FC.4000704@stanford.edu" type="cite">
<meta content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type">
Andrew,<br>
<br>
A propos Tabula Rasa, we are in touch with the guys who documented the
last moments and have permission to add their video to the collection.
So yes, we got it.<br>
<br>
Henry<br>
<br>
Andrew Armstrong wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:49B5A707.8050503@aarmstrong.org" type="cite">
<meta content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1"
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I'd like to agree with Henry here on all counts. Videos are not
equivalent (nothing is except for a time machine), but I think
historians will prefer that to any re-enactments - as stated, while
Civil War guys might march around with full kit, but historians would
kill to have a video of the lives of those soldiers (or anyone else at
that time in history!).<br>
<br>
If we start saying it's "Not good enough" in any way we just need to go
back 100 years and see how little was filmed, and think how much we
miss in history because of it (and how much actual film, audio and
other culture has been lost permanently). It's easy to wave a hand if
it's all you know, but certainly I'd welcome much much more to the IA's
collections. I hope Henry got some good stuff of Tabular Rasa closing
for instance! Once in a games lifetime experience that, not something
that can ever be remade.<br>
<br>
On singleplayer: Let's Play's are awesome ;) Need to check and see if
any are being made of MMO's, there are a odd few around - gets the
experience with commentary, which is ace :) - footage is good, footage
with commentary (optional is best) is even better, which I intend to
try at some point.<br>
<br>
Reminded me to listen to these - I've added them to my MP3 player now,
I don't know why I forgot before.<br>
<br>
Andrew<br>
<br>
Henry Lowood wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:49B5A4F9.8080007@stanford.edu" type="cite">
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Hi Stuart,<br>
<br>
Well, I guess we disagree a little on the value of gameplay
documentation (which is not just video). My point was that
documenting a complex multi-player or massively multi-player world is
as much about documenting events that happen in those spaces as it is
about preserving software. I don't think that's marginal at all.<br>
<br>
If the focus is on "experiences," then I agree with you. That sort of
preservation is closer to re-enactment than history, however. Ok, yes,
it is possible that groups will get together to play Everquest in 100
years, just like they camp out in Civil War replica uniforms and fire
muskets in line. But that experience is NOT the experience of what
happens in virtual worlds today, i.e., it is not going to be history.
It is still going to take place 100 years from now, no matter how you
cut it. For similar reasons, I disagree strongly that playing with
bots is going to be informative, at least in terms of historical work. <br>
<br>
In Preserving Virtual Worlds, our goal is to do both -- software
preservation and "event" preservation (for want of a better term). My
emphasis on documentation of player behavior is more of a corrective to
the idea that it's all about software preservation than it is an
attempt to say we should only do video capture and gather
documentation. But if you put a gun to my head and say pick one or the
other, software or documentation, you can't have both, as a historian I
would go for documentation.<br>
<br>
Last, video capture of single-player games is absolutely useful; I
certainly agree with that statement. <br>
<br>
Henry<br>
<br>
Stuart Feldhamer wrote:
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I
just listened to both episodes. I thought they were very well
done, although I think they would both have been improved by video –
especially the one on collectors. You can’t begin to understand
collectors until you actually SEE some of their collections.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Henry,
you made a comment in the podcast that a single player
game can be booted up in 100 years and enjoyed, but a multi-player game
can’t
be, because it requires other people to play, and the guy won’t be able
to find other people to play it with him. Regardless if that is true or
not, it’s
impossible to preserve the actual experience of playing the game by
taking
video and screenshots. The only way the guy in 100 years is going to be
able to
have the experience of playing the game is if he manages to get a whole
bunch
of other people to play with him, or if we can design suitably
convincing bots
to take the place of the other players.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I
agree that gameplay videos have value, but the same applies to
gameplay videos of single player games. What is specifically added to
the mix
by preserving gameplay videos from multi-player games? It sounded from
the podcast
as if this was some kind of solution to the problem of preserving
multi-player
games in general. I think it’s useful, but it only adds marginally to
the
preservation of the game experience.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Stuart<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; color: windowtext;">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; color: windowtext;">
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:game_preservation-bounces@igda.org">game_preservation-bounces@igda.org</a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:game_preservation-bounces@igda.org">mailto:game_preservation-bounces@igda.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Henry
Lowood<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, March 04, 2009 1:11 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> IGDA Game Preservation SIG<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [game_preservation] A Life Well Wasted<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family: "Georgia","serif";">Some
of you may
be interested in the far-flung corners of the world that the Preserving
Virtual
Worlds project has reached. Others I know are intensely interested in
the
world of game collectors. In either case, check out Robert Ashley's
new
podcast, A Life Well Wasted:<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://alifewellwasted.com/feed/atom/">http://alifewellwasted.com/feed/atom/</a><br>
The second episode covers the world of game collectors, which I have to
say is
not so different in some ways from book collectors (said from a library
perspective). The last quarter or so is about our project. Robert
Ashley, the
man behind ALWW, has said on forums he might release the interview with
me in
its entirety. He is a bright guy and a great interviewer -- makes you
wonder about all the talent shaking loose from 1Up.<br>
Oh, the first podcast is also interesting, covering the history and
demise of
EGM.<br>
Henry</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">-- <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family: "Georgia","serif";">Henry
Lowood,
Ph.D.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family: "Georgia","serif";">Curator
for
History of Science & Technology Collections;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family: "Georgia","serif";"> Film
&
Media Collections</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family: "Georgia","serif";">HRG,
Green
Library, 557 Escondido Mall</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family: "Georgia","serif";">Stanford
University Libraries</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family: "Georgia","serif";">Stanford
CA
94305-6004</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family: "Georgia","serif";">650-723-4602; <a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:lowood@stanford.edu">lowood@stanford.edu</a>;
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.stanford.edu/%7Elowood">http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood</a></span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
<meta content="text/html;" http-equiv="Content-Type">
<title></title>
<div><font face="Georgia">Henry Lowood, Ph.D.</font></div>
<div><font face="Georgia">Curator for History of Science &
Technology Collections;</font></div>
<div><font face="Georgia"> Film & Media Collections</font></div>
<div><font face="Georgia">HRG, Green Library, 557 Escondido Mall</font></div>
<div><font face="Georgia">Stanford University Libraries</font></div>
<div><font face="Georgia">Stanford CA 94305-6004</font></div>
<div><font face="Georgia">650-723-4602; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:lowood@stanford.edu">lowood@stanford.edu</a>;
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.stanford.edu/%7Elowood"
eudora="AUTOURL">http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood</a></font> </div>
</div>
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_______________________________________________
game_preservation mailing list
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:game_preservation@igda.org">game_preservation@igda.org</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation">http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation</a>
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</blockquote>
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href="http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation">http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
<meta content="text/html;" http-equiv="Content-Type">
<title></title>
<div><font face="Georgia">Henry Lowood, Ph.D.</font></div>
<div><font face="Georgia">Curator for History of Science &
Technology Collections;</font></div>
<div><font face="Georgia"> Film & Media Collections</font></div>
<div><font face="Georgia">HRG, Green Library, 557 Escondido Mall</font></div>
<div><font face="Georgia">Stanford University Libraries</font></div>
<div><font face="Georgia">Stanford CA 94305-6004</font></div>
<div><font face="Georgia">650-723-4602; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:lowood@stanford.edu">lowood@stanford.edu</a>;
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.stanford.edu/%7Elowood"
eudora="AUTOURL">http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood</a></font>
</div>
</div>
<pre wrap="">
<hr size="4" width="90%">
_______________________________________________
game_preservation mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:game_preservation@igda.org">game_preservation@igda.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation">http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_preservation</a>
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