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I meant to finish the sentence "reworked into future game
material/ideas" realm. :) oops!<br>
<br>
Andrew<br>
<br>
Devin Monnens wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:9d1cf2d50908211620yb833758u54c68a2fee7b3d3a@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div>Unfortunately, looks like your first part of the quote got cut
off :) I think it's an interesting discussion - for a really crappy
demo like Raven Blade, was that worth preserving? Certainly the studio
has a right to destroy their own property, but a real question is how
culturally or artistically important is the artifact and for artifacts
of great importance, does the company have a - shall we say? -
responsibility to hold onto those? </div>
<div><br>
</div>
In terms of banning versus speech... Well, it's not that you're not
allowed to tell Uncle Remus stories anymore or create a film like Birth
of a Nation or show blackface, but it's culturally inappropriate to do
so (and I think this is a benefit to our society as a result). We
should be treating games with that same treatment we give film and
literature. I think if we look at violence against women in the same
category, then presenting it for the sake of presenting it and not
being constructive is akin to creating a racist game (rather than say
an artwork about racism), and we should treat it as such. But it's not
like we have control over what other countries can do, and that's a bit
off-topic.<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 4:01 PM, Andrew
Armstrong <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:andrew@aarmstrong.org">andrew@aarmstrong.org</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">Interesting on the disposal
front - horrible atrocities to games which
are released already exist, I'm sure there are a ton which are never
released too :) Most no doubt went further into the "<br>
<br>
As for the second point, if we start judging history by today's
standards, or even locality by today's standards, we'd never get
anywhere. If we're islamic, we'd ban all mohammed-showing games. If
we're Christian, it'd be a hard stance on bible-problematic games. If
we're German, violence is out. There's a ton of problems without
bringing in just general historical-problematic games.<br>
<br>
There's always someone who will hate something, so if a reason is
needed to stop "liking" or even preserving something (a medium, a
specific title or anything) there will be one, valid or not. I prefer
to keep everything around - as for sex games, which the WIG one went a
bit off on, it's a difficult situation - although in virtual form, I'm
not exactly an expert, but it's damn better something being virtual
then real I'd say - as for violent games too of course, it's all pretty
fantastical. I'm pretty impartial to things being released - whatever
the taste - I'm never of the mindset "ban it" and am quite the
opposite, which likely will conflict with a few people here, but it's
the truth, so I'd say it's all important to keep a record of :)<br>
<br>
Andrew<br>
<br>
Devin Monnens wrote:
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div class="h5">Not sure how most studios deal with development
material,
but in a recent interview with Michael Kelbaugh of Retro Studios, we
find out they have an interesting - and definitive - solution:
<div><br>
</div>
<div>"I always like reading the posts about Raven Blade. There's
this
underground mystery about that game. When you start reading the blogs
and newsgroups and what have you, there's always this post that says,
'Oh, they're going to work on Raven Blade' or 'I wonder if they're
bringing Raven Blade back?' And at one point I went back and had them
burn the last copy of Raven Blade -- and this was probably two or three
years ago -- and I looked at it," says Michael Kelbaugh, president of
Retro Studios..."I just couldn't believe that we even came close to
making anything like that because it was absolutely horrible."</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Despite my game preservation obsession, this brought me a
chuckle. I think we can learn from it.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In other news, there was an article in the Times the other
day
about how some Tintin comics have been placed in the back room of the
New York Public Library because they were deemed too racist for
visitors. They don't mention them by name, but the Tintin comics are
undoubtedly in the same storage area as the Uncle Remus children's
books. This brings some interesting things about game preservation and
also relates to some other current events. Now hopefully, this won't
get into such a huge long argument that it did on the WIG SIG mailing
list...</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Essentially it involves how we deal with games depicting
objectionable material. I think what it comes down to is a situation
similar to the Uncle Remus books, which are horribly offensive by
today's standards but which have historical importance about the
culture of the time. I think if you look at the worst examples from
videogames, there's Custer's Revenge which is used as an example in
many game studies books (such as Miguel Sicart's book on game ethics).
I would argue that from a purely formal standpoint, even though the
material is about as offensive as games have become (even in its crude
simplicity), because it is a work referenced by so many people, it
should be archived for that reason alone, but kept in a similar
category as the Uncle Remus books (not that I think there's anything
really redeeming about Custer's Revenge other than an example of what
NOT to do - also makes me wonder if anybody tracked down the developers
and asked them what they were smoking when they made it).</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Anyway, I just figured I'd bring these two topics up here to
see
if anyone had any reflections or anything they wanted to add.</div>
<div><br>
-- <br>
Devin Monnens<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.deserthat.com"
target="_blank">www.deserthat.com</a><br>
<br>
The sleep of Reason produces monsters.<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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<br>
<br clear="all">
<br>
-- <br>
Devin Monnens<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.deserthat.com">www.deserthat.com</a><br>
<br>
The sleep of Reason produces monsters.<br>
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