From dot at dotat.at  Tue Apr  1 07:39:27 2008
From: dot at dotat.at (Tony Finch)
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 12:39:27 +0100
Subject: [LEAPSECS] operational time -- What's in a name?
In-Reply-To: <23BA9A7D-01F5-4946-8F39-756B13F2EAD3@noao.edu>
References: <0252D543-5185-45F8-98EB-F80907B51CE3@noao.edu>
	<874E8387-74D5-4EED-99C9-D5BB76FD2C30@noao.edu>
	<003e01c8935f$722ae890$9187db48@Fnord>
	<23BA9A7D-01F5-4946-8F39-756B13F2EAD3@noao.edu>
Message-ID: <alpine.LSU.1.00.0804011230480.14814@hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk>

On Mon, 31 Mar 2008, Rob Seaman wrote:
>
> Like I said, the clocks remained synced through several visits suggesting that
> they received a signal on a regular schedule.  They do turn the lights off at
> night, I presume.  The underlying clocks are undoubtedly crap, but likely
> can't drift very far in a day.  I do tend to donate first thing in the
> morning.

It seems that the reason my MSF clock didn't switch to DST was its
position - moving it allowed it to resync correctly. (Possibly the
problem was it faced west and the transmitter is north.) I didn't notice
the lack of sync earlier because the clock has no sync indicator, and its
quartz mechanism was accurate to within a second over three months. My
quartz wristwatch is similarly accurate, even though it lacks temperature
stability because I don't wear it all the time. Like you I expected them
to be much worse, probably because of the bad reputation of quartz
oscillators in computers.

Tony.
-- 
f.anthony.n.finch  <dot at dotat.at>  http://dotat.at/
DOVER WIGHT PORTLAND PLYMOUTH: SOUTHWEST VEERING WEST 5 TO 7, DECREASING 4 AT
TIMES. MODERATE OR ROUGH, OCCASIONALLY VERY ROUGH IN PLYMOUTH. OCCASIONAL
RAIN, FOG PATCHES. MODERATE OR GOOD, OCCASIONALLY VERY POOR.

From dot at dotat.at  Tue Apr  1 07:42:54 2008
From: dot at dotat.at (Tony Finch)
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 12:42:54 +0100
Subject: [LEAPSECS] operational time -- What's in a name?
In-Reply-To: <20080331213632.GB62867@finch-staff-1.thus.net>
References: <0252D543-5185-45F8-98EB-F80907B51CE3@noao.edu>
	<874E8387-74D5-4EED-99C9-D5BB76FD2C30@noao.edu>
	<20080331213632.GB62867@finch-staff-1.thus.net>
Message-ID: <alpine.LSU.1.00.0804011240300.14814@hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk>

On Mon, 31 Mar 2008, Clive D.W. Feather wrote:
>
> Um, what buttons on the back? My kitchen RC clock has none such (probably
> because just about all of the UK is in the same time zone).

Mine has buttons to request a radio sync and for manual setting.
http://www.precisionclocks.co.uk/Instructions%20(PDF's)/PREC0002.pdf

Tony.
-- 
f.anthony.n.finch  <dot at dotat.at>  http://dotat.at/
SOUTHEAST ICELAND: NORTHEAST 7 TO SEVERE GALE 9 VEERING EAST 5 TO 7. VERY
ROUGH OR HIGH . OCCASIONAL RAIN OR SLEET. MODERATE OR POOR.

From phk at phk.freebsd.dk  Tue Apr  1 10:15:51 2008
From: phk at phk.freebsd.dk (Poul-Henning Kamp)
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2008 14:15:51 +0000
Subject: [LEAPSECS] operational time -- What's in a name?
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 01 Apr 2008 12:39:27 +0100."
	<alpine.LSU.1.00.0804011230480.14814@hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk> 
Message-ID: <35420.1207059351@critter.freebsd.dk>

In message <alpine.LSU.1.00.0804011230480.14814 at hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk>, Tony 
Finch writes:

>It seems that the reason my MSF clock didn't switch to DST was its
>position - moving it allowed it to resync correctly.

This is one of my major issues with radio-sync clocks: they seldom
tell you they have no idea what time it really is.


-- 
Poul-Henning Kamp       | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
phk at FreeBSD.ORG         | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer       | BSD since 4.3-tahoe    
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.

From seaman at noao.edu  Tue Apr  1 15:54:26 2008
From: seaman at noao.edu (Rob Seaman)
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 12:54:26 -0700
Subject: [LEAPSECS] Risks Digest DST articles
Message-ID: <0EC63799-CA6B-47BE-9A5D-6AED60A91A04@noao.edu>

LEAPSECS own Tony Finch has a couple of time related contributions in  
the current ACM Risks Digest, including a cartoon lampooning daylight  
saving time:

	http://catless.ncl.ac.uk/Risks/25.10.html#subj4

...as well as a more serious DST proposal, quite worthy of our  
consideration:

	http://catless.ncl.ac.uk/Risks/25.10.html#subj1

Those interested might start by first reading a slightly more  
speculative contribution ("Australia & NZ should totally abandon  
Daylight Savings Time") from a different author:

	http://catless.ncl.ac.uk/Risks/25.10.html#subj5

Glad to see timekeeping issues receive the widespread attention they  
deserve.

Rob


From sla at ucolick.org  Tue Apr  8 10:21:05 2008
From: sla at ucolick.org (Steve Allen)
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 07:21:05 -0700
Subject: [LEAPSECS] TI incunabula
Message-ID: <20080408142105.GA22204@ucolick.org>

Popular spreading of the notion of International Time for
telecommunications, using that name, predates the 1884 International
Meridian Conference.  The New York Times reported on that in 1882.

http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?_r=1&res=9F06E6DF123BE033A25754C1A9679C94639FD7CF&oref=slogin

--
Steve Allen                 <sla at ucolick.org>                WGS-84 (GPS)
UCO/Lick Observatory        Natural Sciences II, Room 165    Lat  +36.99855
University of California    Voice: +1 831 459 3046           Lng -122.06015
Santa Cruz, CA 95064        http://www.ucolick.org/~sla/     Hgt +250 m

From seaman at noao.edu  Tue Apr  8 11:44:51 2008
From: seaman at noao.edu (Rob Seaman)
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 08:44:51 -0700
Subject: [LEAPSECS] TI incunabula
In-Reply-To: <20080408142105.GA22204@ucolick.org>
References: <20080408142105.GA22204@ucolick.org>
Message-ID: <CAE273B8-7505-478F-9F71-934698C52569@noao.edu>

Steve Allen wrote:

> Popular spreading of the notion of International Time for  
> telecommunications, using that name, predates the 1884 International  
> Meridian Conference.  The New York Times reported on that in 1882.
>
> http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?_r=1&res=9F06E6DF123BE033A25754C1A9679C94639FD7CF&oref=slogin

The most obvious thing about that newspaper article is how extremely  
well written it is.  Forget about declining standards of timekeeping -  
the standards of journalism are atrocious today.

My new pet project is to restore the U.S. Central timezone to the  
wonderfully poetic name of Mississippi Valley time.

We should also start prepending the implicit "Rocky" in front of  
Mountain time.  As a loyal, albeit prodigal, son of Philadelphia, I  
champion the proper recognition of Mr. Balboa.

The name Atlantic time from the NYT article was ultimately assigned to  
a different zone, of course.  One also wonders about the Eastern  
timezone of North America, which is the Western timezone of South  
America.

Oh yeah!  I also heartily support Steve's implicit message here.   
Rather than trashing one timescale, let's just simply complete the  
proper system engineering started in the Nineteenth century and call  
any such new timescale "International Time".

Rob Seaman
NOAO


From phk at phk.freebsd.dk  Tue Apr  8 11:47:08 2008
From: phk at phk.freebsd.dk (Poul-Henning Kamp)
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2008 15:47:08 +0000
Subject: [LEAPSECS] TI incunabula
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 08 Apr 2008 08:44:51 MST."
	<CAE273B8-7505-478F-9F71-934698C52569@noao.edu> 
Message-ID: <40270.1207669628@critter.freebsd.dk>

In message <CAE273B8-7505-478F-9F71-934698C52569 at noao.edu>, Rob Seaman writes:

>Oh yeah!  I also heartily support Steve's implicit message here.   
>Rather than trashing one timescale, let's just simply complete the  
>proper system engineering started in the Nineteenth century and call  
>any such new timescale "International Time".

It has always seemed very pretentious to me, that a timescale bound
tightly to a particular rotating rock was called "Universal".

I can live with International Time as a name, but would far prefer
to have it be Terrestial Time, so it names the rock in question.

-- 
Poul-Henning Kamp       | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
phk at FreeBSD.ORG         | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer       | BSD since 4.3-tahoe    
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.

From imp at bsdimp.com  Tue Apr  8 12:02:24 2008
From: imp at bsdimp.com (M. Warner Losh)
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2008 10:02:24 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [LEAPSECS] TI incunabula
In-Reply-To: <40270.1207669628@critter.freebsd.dk>
References: <CAE273B8-7505-478F-9F71-934698C52569@noao.edu>
	<40270.1207669628@critter.freebsd.dk>
Message-ID: <20080408.100224.-135503056.imp@bsdimp.com>

In message: <40270.1207669628 at critter.freebsd.dk>
            "Poul-Henning Kamp" <phk at phk.freebsd.dk> writes:
: In message <CAE273B8-7505-478F-9F71-934698C52569 at noao.edu>, Rob Seaman writes:
: 
: >Oh yeah!  I also heartily support Steve's implicit message here.   
: >Rather than trashing one timescale, let's just simply complete the  
: >proper system engineering started in the Nineteenth century and call  
: >any such new timescale "International Time".
: 
: It has always seemed very pretentious to me, that a timescale bound
: tightly to a particular rotating rock was called "Universal".

<homer simpson>
Hmmm, tightly rotating rocks....
</homer simpson>

: I can live with International Time as a name, but would far prefer
: to have it be Terrestial Time, so it names the rock in question.

Or better yet, Earth Terrestial Time or Earth Normal Time or
Commercial Time, since TT already is an abbreviation for some other
timescale...

Warner

From seaman at noao.edu  Tue Apr  8 12:52:04 2008
From: seaman at noao.edu (Rob Seaman)
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 09:52:04 -0700
Subject: [LEAPSECS] TI incunabula
In-Reply-To: <20080408.100224.-135503056.imp@bsdimp.com>
References: <CAE273B8-7505-478F-9F71-934698C52569@noao.edu>
	<40270.1207669628@critter.freebsd.dk>
	<20080408.100224.-135503056.imp@bsdimp.com>
Message-ID: <9AFF2511-8B72-4A37-9F7B-494BDD4D5B59@noao.edu>

M. Warner Losh wrote:

> Poul-Henning Kamp writes:
>
>> I can live with International Time as a name, but would far prefer
>> to have it be Terrestial Time, so it names the rock in question.
>
> Or better yet, Earth Terrestial Time or Earth Normal Time or
> Commercial Time, since TT already is an abbreviation for some other
> timescale...

Um...TT is the abbreviation for "Terrestrial Time".

It isn't the rock that places requirements on civil timekeeping, it is  
our internationally diverse civilization that derives requirements  
from the rock.  For instance, the Mars rover project derives  
additional requirements from another rock.

Rob


From lang at unb.ca  Wed Apr  9 08:07:44 2008
From: lang at unb.ca (Richard B. Langley)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 09:07:44 -0300 (ADT)
Subject: [LEAPSECS] IERS Message No. 129: Plots of Earth Orientation Data
	(fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0804090906250.5472@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca>

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 07:50:40 +0200
From: central_bureau at iers.org
To: messages at iers.org
Subject: IERS Message No. 129: Plots of Earth Orientation Data

************************************************************************
IERS Message No. 129                                      April 09, 2008
************************************************************************


Plots of Earth Orientation Data

Some of the Earth Orientation Data provided by the IERS (see
http://www.iers.org/MainDisp.csl?pid=36-9) can now be visualized by a
simple click on the graphic symbols at this web page. The data include
pole coordinates, UT1-UTC, LOD, and celestial pole offsets. The plots
may be enlarged by clicking on them.

Please be reminded also of the interactive tools for selecting,
plotting, and analyzing time series of the Earth orientation available
at the IERS Earth Orientation Centre ((http://hpiers.obspm.fr/eop-pc),
which were announced in IERS Message No. 46.

Bernd Richter and Wolfgang Schwegmann
IERS Central Bureau


************************************************************************
IERS Messages are edited and distributed by the IERS Central Bureau.
To subscribe or unsubscribe, please write to <central_bureau at iers.org>.
Archives: http://www.iers.org/iers/publications/messages/
************************************************************************


From seaman at noao.edu  Wed Apr  9 09:37:21 2008
From: seaman at noao.edu (Rob Seaman)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 06:37:21 -0700
Subject: [LEAPSECS] IERS Message No. 129: Plots of Earth Orientation
	Data (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0804090906250.5472@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0804090906250.5472@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca>
Message-ID: <8865F2B0-CD8D-4BDE-B1A9-3EEA16063037@noao.edu>

Yeah, I saw that too, but haven't figured out what symbols he's  
talking about.  I just see the familiar text files.  Anybody have  
specific links?

Rob
--

On Apr 9, 2008, at 5:07 AM, Richard B. Langley wrote:
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 07:50:40 +0200
> From: central_bureau at iers.org
> To: messages at iers.org
> Subject: IERS Message No. 129: Plots of Earth Orientation Data
>
> ************************************************************************
> IERS Message No. 129                                      April 09,  
> 2008
> ************************************************************************
>
>
> Plots of Earth Orientation Data
>
> Some of the Earth Orientation Data provided by the IERS (see
> http://www.iers.org/MainDisp.csl?pid=36-9) can now be visualized by a
> simple click on the graphic symbols at this web page. The data include
> pole coordinates, UT1-UTC, LOD, and celestial pole offsets. The plots
> may be enlarged by clicking on them.
>
> Please be reminded also of the interactive tools for selecting,
> plotting, and analyzing time series of the Earth orientation available
> at the IERS Earth Orientation Centre ((http://hpiers.obspm.fr/eop-pc),
> which were announced in IERS Message No. 46.
>
> Bernd Richter and Wolfgang Schwegmann
> IERS Central Bureau
>
>
> ************************************************************************
> IERS Messages are edited and distributed by the IERS Central Bureau.
> To subscribe or unsubscribe, please write to  
> <central_bureau at iers.org>.
> Archives: http://www.iers.org/iers/publications/messages/
> ************************************************************************
>
> _______________________________________________
> LEAPSECS mailing list
> LEAPSECS at leapsecond.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/leapsecs


From dot at dotat.at  Wed Apr  9 09:50:44 2008
From: dot at dotat.at (Tony Finch)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 14:50:44 +0100
Subject: [LEAPSECS] IERS Message No. 129: Plots of Earth
 Orientation	Data (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <8865F2B0-CD8D-4BDE-B1A9-3EEA16063037@noao.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0804090906250.5472@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca>
	<8865F2B0-CD8D-4BDE-B1A9-3EEA16063037@noao.edu>
Message-ID: <alpine.LSU.1.00.0804091449490.8138@hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk>

On Wed, 9 Apr 2008, Rob Seaman wrote:

> Yeah, I saw that too, but haven't figured out what symbols he's talking about.
> I just see the familiar text files.  Anybody have specific links?

http://www.iers.org/MainDisp.csl?pid=36-1100218

The link is the small white square with the red diagonal line between
"Finals.all (IAU1980)" and "version metadata".

Tony.
-- 
f.anthony.n.finch  <dot at dotat.at>  http://dotat.at/
LUNDY FASTNET IRISH SEA: WEST OR SOUTHWEST 3 OR 4, OCCASIONALLY 5 IN FASTNET
LATER. SLIGHT, BUT MODERATE IN WEST FASTNET. SHOWERS. MAINLY GOOD.

From phk at phk.freebsd.dk  Wed Apr  9 09:53:31 2008
From: phk at phk.freebsd.dk (Poul-Henning Kamp)
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2008 13:53:31 +0000
Subject: [LEAPSECS] IERS Message No. 129: Plots of Earth Orientation
	Data (fwd)
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 09 Apr 2008 14:50:44 +0100."
	<alpine.LSU.1.00.0804091449490.8138@hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk> 
Message-ID: <44959.1207749211@critter.freebsd.dk>

In message <alpine.LSU.1.00.0804091449490.8138 at hermes-1.csi.cam.ac.uk>, Tony Fi
nch writes:
>On Wed, 9 Apr 2008, Rob Seaman wrote:
>
>> Yeah, I saw that too, but haven't figured out what symbols he's talking about.
>> I just see the familiar text files.  Anybody have specific links?
>
>http://www.iers.org/MainDisp.csl?pid=36-1100218

And the interesting one of course is:

	http://www.iers.org/plots/FinalsAllIAU1980-UT1-UTC-BULA.png

Should we make an informal bet on when the next leap second happens ?

-- 
Poul-Henning Kamp       | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
phk at FreeBSD.ORG         | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer       | BSD since 4.3-tahoe    
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.

From seaman at noao.edu  Wed Apr  9 11:45:52 2008
From: seaman at noao.edu (Rob Seaman)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 08:45:52 -0700
Subject: [LEAPSECS] IERS Message No. 129: Plots of Earth Orientation
	Data (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <44959.1207749211@critter.freebsd.dk>
References: <44959.1207749211@critter.freebsd.dk>
Message-ID: <98D91D01-1536-4EF2-A6BA-467F5AC0270A@noao.edu>

On Apr 9, 2008, at 6:53 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:

> And the interesting one of course is:
>
> 	http://www.iers.org/plots/FinalsAllIAU1980-UT1-UTC-BULA.png


This is an up to date version of the first figure (labeled figure 3)  
from my screed of exactly seven years ago today:

	http://iraf.noao.edu/~seaman/leap

Remarkable how issues that aren't resolved keep coming back at you :-)

How to optimize the scheduling algorithm for leap seconds has always  
been one of the more interesting - and potentially more productive -  
questions, whether it is your 10 year look ahead or the other extreme  
of permitting monthly leap seconds as I described.

What clever chap was it who suggested ALWAYS having a leap second at  
the end of each month - toggling positive and negative?  An actual  
leap transition then becomes the omission of a (negative) leap.  Since  
systems would have to deal with the monthly cadence they would be  
forced to work correctly.  (Evolution trumps design any day.)  And  
since a leap would be the absence of an event, nothing would break.

More to the point, all of these strategies are permitted under the  
current UTC standard :-)

> Should we make an informal bet on when the next leap second happens ?

I'll take December 2008.  A Carlsberg Elephant (what do the locals  
drink?) versus your choice from the Nimbus brewery in Tucson?

Rob
---
http://nimbusbeer.qwestoffice.net/thebeers.html


From phk at phk.freebsd.dk  Wed Apr  9 11:52:43 2008
From: phk at phk.freebsd.dk (Poul-Henning Kamp)
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2008 15:52:43 +0000
Subject: [LEAPSECS] IERS Message No. 129: Plots of Earth Orientation
	Data (fwd)
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 09 Apr 2008 08:45:52 MST."
	<98D91D01-1536-4EF2-A6BA-467F5AC0270A@noao.edu> 
Message-ID: <45825.1207756363@critter.freebsd.dk>

In message <98D91D01-1536-4EF2-A6BA-467F5AC0270A at noao.edu>, Rob Seaman writes:


>What clever chap was it who suggested ALWAYS having a leap second at  
>the end of each month - toggling positive and negative?  An actual  
>leap transition then becomes the omission of a (negative) leap.  Since  
>systems would have to deal with the monthly cadence they would be  
>forced to work correctly.  (Evolution trumps design any day.)  And  
>since a leap would be the absence of an event, nothing would break.

Provided you get the funding sorted out, I'm all for it.

Without funding, that proposal is deader than a doornail[1]

>> Should we make an informal bet on when the next leap second happens ?
>
>I'll take December 2008.  A Carlsberg Elephant (what do the locals  
>drink?) versus your choice from the Nimbus brewery in Tucson?

That was my guess too...

Elephants are falling out of fashion here, along with pretty much
any other Carlsberg product.  In the last couple of years Denmark
has gone from 8 to several thousand (mostly micro-)breweries as a 
tasteful revolution against industrialized beer has taken hold.

But I'll promise you a good beer if you pop around here, no matter what.

Poul-Henning

[1] For a quantification of this, see:
    http://www.amazon.com/Best-Annals-Improbable-Research/dp/0716730944

-- 
Poul-Henning Kamp       | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
phk at FreeBSD.ORG         | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer       | BSD since 4.3-tahoe    
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.

From seaman at noao.edu  Wed Apr  9 12:43:47 2008
From: seaman at noao.edu (Rob Seaman)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 09:43:47 -0700
Subject: [LEAPSECS] IERS Message No. 129: Plots of Earth Orientation
	Data (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <45825.1207756363@critter.freebsd.dk>
References: <45825.1207756363@critter.freebsd.dk>
Message-ID: <9EF73E8A-9777-436D-99F8-1EE5656F7B70@noao.edu>

Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:

> In message <98D91D01-1536-4EF2-A6BA-467F5AC0270A at noao.edu>, Rob  
> Seaman writes:
>
>> What clever chap was it who suggested ALWAYS having a leap second at
>> the end of each month - toggling positive and negative?  An actual
>> leap transition then becomes the omission of a (negative) leap.   
>> Since
>> systems would have to deal with the monthly cadence they would be
>> forced to work correctly.  (Evolution trumps design any day.)  And
>> since a leap would be the absence of an event, nothing would break.
>
> Provided you get the funding sorted out, I'm all for it.

What funding?  M. Gambis already has this authority as long as he  
stays within the +/- 0.9s window.

Having reached a consensus among diverse parties and resolved the  
funding question, all in favor?  :-)

Like I said, all these scheduling variations are permitted under the  
UTC standard that is currently in effect.  Your figure of merit is to  
maximize the look-ahead.  Mine is to minimize excursions beyond 0.5s.   
Early UTC scheduling was clearly biased toward issuing a leap second  
as early as possible (permitting slack later).  Recent UTC scheduling  
appears to be biased toward holding off on a leap second as long as  
possible (with the notion perhaps that each will be the last).

> Elephants are falling out of fashion here, along with pretty much
> any other Carlsberg product.  In the last couple of years Denmark
> has gone from 8 to several thousand (mostly micro-)breweries as a
> tasteful revolution against industrialized beer has taken hold.

This is the most hopeful sign for the future of our civilization that  
I've heard yet.

> But I'll promise you a good beer if you pop around here, no matter  
> what.

I may change planes in Munich on the way to Trieste in May.  That's  
about as close as I'm likely to pop :-(  You would think the home of  
Tycho would feature more prominently on the astronomical jet-set  
circuit.  My father developed a taste for Tuborg when he was doing  
business in Copenhagen in the 60's, but I gather that's owned by  
Carlsberg now, too.

> [1] For a quantification of this, see:
>    http://www.amazon.com/Best-Annals-Improbable-Research/dp/0716730944

I can also recommend:

	http://www.amazon.com/Being-Certain-Believing-Right-Youre/dp/0312359209

:-)

Rob

From phk at phk.freebsd.dk  Wed Apr  9 13:02:58 2008
From: phk at phk.freebsd.dk (Poul-Henning Kamp)
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2008 17:02:58 +0000
Subject: [LEAPSECS] IERS Message No. 129: Plots of Earth Orientation
	Data (fwd)
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 09 Apr 2008 09:43:47 MST."
	<9EF73E8A-9777-436D-99F8-1EE5656F7B70@noao.edu> 
Message-ID: <50661.1207760578@critter.freebsd.dk>

In message <9EF73E8A-9777-436D-99F8-1EE5656F7B70 at noao.edu>, Rob Seaman writes:

>> Provided you get the funding sorted out, I'm all for it.
>
>What funding?  M. Gambis already has this authority as long as he  
>stays within the +/- 0.9s window.

I could imagine that M. Gambis would run short of funds and possibly
employment if he tried it.

>> Elephants are falling out of fashion here, along with pretty much
>> any other Carlsberg product.  In the last couple of years Denmark
>> has gone from 8 to several thousand (mostly micro-)breweries as a
>> tasteful revolution against industrialized beer has taken hold.
>
>This is the most hopeful sign for the future of our civilization that  
>I've heard yet.

Well, it's conflicting evidence:
	http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/04/08/climate-change-hits-beer


-- 
Poul-Henning Kamp       | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
phk at FreeBSD.ORG         | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer       | BSD since 4.3-tahoe    
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.

From tvb at LeapSecond.com  Thu Apr 10 02:44:30 2008
From: tvb at LeapSecond.com (Tom Van Baak)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 23:44:30 -0700
Subject: [LEAPSECS] IERS Message No. 129: Plots of Earth OrientationData
	(fwd)
References: <44959.1207749211@critter.freebsd.dk>
Message-ID: <001101c89ad6$5767abf0$0a00a8c0@pc52>

> Should we make an informal bet on when the next leap second happens ?

http://www.leapsecond.com/java/nixie.htm

/tvb


From tvb at LeapSecond.com  Thu Apr 10 15:49:31 2008
From: tvb at LeapSecond.com (Tom Van Baak)
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 12:49:31 -0700
Subject: [LEAPSECS] Electromagnetic Link Deep in the Earth Varies the Length
	of the Day
Message-ID: <002001c89b44$0663bbe0$0a00a8c0@pc52>

This may be of interest:

Electromagnetic Link Deep in the Earth Varies the Length of the Day
http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/print/6123

see also:

The Electrical Conductivity of Post-Perovskite in Earth's D'' Layer
http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/320/5872/89

or:

http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/apr08/6123
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/vol320/issue5872/index.dtl

/tvb


From lang at unb.ca  Sat Apr 12 22:55:06 2008
From: lang at unb.ca (Richard B. Langley)
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 23:55:06 -0300 (ADT)
Subject: [LEAPSECS] Book: One time fits all : the campaigns for global
	uniformity
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0804101638030.17926@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca>

FYI. Bartky also wrote Selling the True Time: Nineteenth-Century
Timekeeping in America (Stanford Univ. Press, Stanford, CA, 2000) and died
last December. Obit here:
<http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/23/AR2007122302355.html>


Bartky, Ian R. One time fits all : the campaigns for global uniformity / Ian
R. Bartky. Stanford, CA : Stanford University Press, 2007. xxv, 292 p. : ill.,
maps ; 24 cm. [Includes bibliographical references and index.]
ISBN: 0-8047-5642-2 (Cloth/HB 49.95 USD)

LC Class: QB223
Dewey: 389/.17 22
LC Subject Headings: Time--Systems and standards.
"One Time Fits All" provides the first full framework for understanding
attributes of civil time, which is used throughout the world today. It focuses
on three components of uniform time all linked to the prime meridian at
Greenwich - the International Date Line, the worldwide system of Standard Time
zones, and Daylight Saving Time (Summer Time) - tracing the story of their
beginnings and eventual acceptance from original sources in Europe, Great
Britain, Canada, and the United States. The book concludes with an examination
of the recent changes in America's Daylight Saving Time that took effect in
2007.


===============================================================================
 Richard B. Langley                            E-mail: lang at unb.ca
 Geodetic Research Laboratory                  Web: http://www.unb.ca/GGE/
 Dept. of Geodesy and Geomatics Engineering    Phone:    +1 506 453-5142
 University of New Brunswick                   Fax:      +1 506 453-4943
 Fredericton, N.B., Canada  E3B 5A3
     Fredericton?  Where's that?  See: http://www.city.fredericton.nb.ca/
===============================================================================

From Michael.Deckers at fujitsu-siemens.com  Mon Apr 14 10:38:16 2008
From: Michael.Deckers at fujitsu-siemens.com (Deckers, Michael)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 16:38:16 +0200
Subject: [LEAPSECS] TI incunabula
Message-ID: <3958B14F314B884890EEE2F4CCDAB6A68C2E8B2AD2@ABGEX73E.FSC.NET>


   On 2008-04-08, Steve Allen posted an interesting NY Times article
   of 1882-01-17 on International Time.

   The article states that the Third International Geographical Congress
   (TIGC) of 1881-09 was held in Vienna. This is incorrect: that congress
   convened not in Vienna but in Venice (which arguably is nicer in
   September anyway). See for instance [Derek Howse: "Greenwich Time
   and the Longitude". pages 130..131 in the 1997 edition].

  Michael Deckers

From sla at ucolick.org  Mon Apr 21 01:51:30 2008
From: sla at ucolick.org (Steve Allen)
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2008 22:51:30 -0700
Subject: [LEAPSECS] time for HRH Victoria
Message-ID: <20080421055130.GA28072@ucolick.org>

In the year 1900 E. WALTER MAUNDER, F.R.A.S
produced a treasure of a work titled
The ROYAL OBSERVATORY GREENWICH
currently available online at
http://atschool.eduweb.co.uk/bookman/library/ROG/INDEX.HTM

In chapter VI is this quote

    There are few questions more frequently put than, 'What time is it?'
    'Can you tell me the true time?  'A stickler for exactitude might
    reply, 'What kind of time do you mean?'  'Do you mean solar or
    sidereal time?'  'Apparent time or mean time?'  'Local time or
    standard time?'  There are all these six kinds of time, but it is only
    within the last two generations, within, indeed, the reign of our
    Sovereign, Queen Victoria, that the subject of the differences of most
    of these kinds of time has become of pressing importance to any but
    theorists.

Proliferation of time scales predates the atomic resonator.
It's a thing that humans do.

--
Steve Allen                 <sla at ucolick.org>                WGS-84 (GPS)
UCO/Lick Observatory        Natural Sciences II, Room 165    Lat  +36.99855
University of California    Voice: +1 831 459 3046           Lng -122.06015
Santa Cruz, CA 95064        http://www.ucolick.org/~sla/     Hgt +250 m

From clive at demon.net  Mon Apr 21 11:49:33 2008
From: clive at demon.net (Clive D.W. Feather)
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 16:49:33 +0100
Subject: [LEAPSECS] time for HRH Victoria
In-Reply-To: <20080421055130.GA28072@ucolick.org>
References: <20080421055130.GA28072@ucolick.org>
Message-ID: <20080421154933.GG88574@finch-staff-1.thus.net>

It's not "HRH Victoria", it's "HIM Queen-Emperor Victoria". She stopped
being an HRH in 1837.

-- 
Clive D.W. Feather  | Work:  <clive at demon.net>   | Tel:    +44 20 8495 6138
Internet Expert     | Home:  <clive at davros.org>  | Fax:    +44 870 051 9937
Demon Internet      | WWW: http://www.davros.org | Mobile: +44 7973 377646
THUS plc            |                            |

From sla at ucolick.org  Mon Apr 21 23:00:30 2008
From: sla at ucolick.org (Steve Allen)
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 20:00:30 -0700
Subject: [LEAPSECS] Delta T to 2 seconds over 50 years?
Message-ID: <20080422030030.GA8384@ucolick.org>

Online rumor that ObsPM may be prepared to assert predictions of Delta
T, and thus leap seconds, to two seconds over an interval of 50 years.

http://groups.google.com/group/NavList/browse_thread/thread/6b49f72f72fe84e3/21930961759798a2?hl=en#21930961759798a2

That might just alleviate the objections to putting the leap seconds
into the zoneinfo database.

--
Steve Allen                 <sla at ucolick.org>                WGS-84 (GPS)
UCO/Lick Observatory        Natural Sciences II, Room 165    Lat  +36.99855
University of California    Voice: +1 831 459 3046           Lng -122.06015
Santa Cruz, CA 95064        http://www.ucolick.org/~sla/     Hgt +250 m

From phk at phk.freebsd.dk  Tue Apr 22 02:10:53 2008
From: phk at phk.freebsd.dk (Poul-Henning Kamp)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 06:10:53 +0000
Subject: [LEAPSECS] Delta T to 2 seconds over 50 years?
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 21 Apr 2008 20:00:30 MST."
	<20080422030030.GA8384@ucolick.org> 
Message-ID: <1531.1208844653@critter.freebsd.dk>

In message <20080422030030.GA8384 at ucolick.org>, Steve Allen writes:

>Online rumor that ObsPM may be prepared to assert predictions of Delta
>T, and thus leap seconds, to two seconds over an interval of 50 years.

That would certainly remove my primary objection to leap-seconds.

-- 
Poul-Henning Kamp       | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
phk at FreeBSD.ORG         | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer       | BSD since 4.3-tahoe    
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.

From sla at ucolick.org  Mon Apr 28 21:58:07 2008
From: sla at ucolick.org (Steve Allen)
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 18:58:07 -0700
Subject: [LEAPSECS] move over Greenwich, Mecca calls
Message-ID: <20080429015807.GA16120@ucolick.org>

The blogosphere is abuzz about the conference in Qatar

Mecca, the Centre of the Earth, Theory and Practice

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7359258.stm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mecca_Time

Disconnecting UTC from GMT, from the sun, may be playing with fire.
The ITU-R is not constructed to handle these sorts of issues.
This could be fun.

I still think it's simplest if the ITU-R simply declares that time
broadcasts would switch to a leapsecond-free, Torino-conference-like
entity named such as TI, leaving UTC with BIPM.  That would solve the
ITU-R's problem -- getting a leap-free time scale.  It makes
everything else "someone else's problem", a strategy that is perfectly
consistent with the historical actions of the CCIR and ITU-R.

--
Steve Allen                 <sla at ucolick.org>                WGS-84 (GPS)
UCO/Lick Observatory        Natural Sciences II, Room 165    Lat  +36.99855
University of California    Voice: +1 831 459 3046           Lng -122.06015
Santa Cruz, CA 95064        http://www.ucolick.org/~sla/     Hgt +250 m