Proposed table specification (long!)
Chinyoka on Macbook
chinyoka.consultant at gmail.com
Wed May 18 14:28:53 EDT 2011
Thanks for the great publishing system but I failed to add my comment to the already 89 ones I saw due to the verification code. Tried the audio one but to no joy, so hey I don't know how on earth I can add my signature to be the 90th. But I find that promising and just wonder whether it would work on Mac as well.
I am also wondering whether there would be a way to split a document into many pages. I checked with other Markdown implementations and wish they would have a way to split a document into pages: for instance, Cramdown looked like it could if Thomas wanted to make it one of those options you can put between those sharp brackets and colons.
Currently, I am using PHP Markdown Extra for my web publishing, but want a solid desktop option. I sometimes wish there were a desktop version, whether command line or GUI, that would work like that PHP Markdown Extra.
So I hope your solution may be the answer to this.
Anyway, it looks like Markdown in 2011 is heading for exciting moments with or without Gruber's blessing.
Mobile number: +263 772 930 422
WEB URL: www.chinyoka-educational.com
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On 18 May,2011, at 7:21 PM, Bowerbird at aol.com wrote:
> slept on this, but decided to send anyway, make it a trilogy...
> david said:
> > Well, then why don't you do it?
> i've got some other fish to fry right now, in my own project,
> but i will get around to tables soon enough with that myself,
> and i'll be very happy to show people the results when i do...
> and here are some of the "challenges" i'll want to try to handle:
> > http://www.pgdp.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4311&start=0
> > http://www.pgdp.net/wiki/Formatting_Examples/Gallery_of_Table_Layouts
> rob said:
> > with all due respect, it's more than a little arrogant for
> > anyone to insist that they got it perfect the first time (1.0.1).
> well, gruber is well-known for being arrogant, but i do believe
> that he has never insisted, or even claimed, he got it all "perfect".
> and besides, the current charge is _neglect_, and not _arrogance_.
> but all of that is a dodge as well. gruber isn't really the factor here.
> the _real_ problem is that there's several different implementations,
> and they differ between each other, and none of 'em is significantly
> better than the others, so none of them can overcome the stalemate.
> i repeat: it has nothing to do with gruber. nothing at all. really.
> the only thing gruber could do is bless a successor. and he won't.
> > The idea of Markdown, not the implementation, is what's special.
> nope. lots of other people had "the idea" long before gruber.
> indeed, "structured text" -- from which "restructured text" was
> derived -- dates back to the 1990s, and was a contender against
> the likes of .sgml. if tim berners-lee would have been smarter,
> he woulda chosen light-markup instead of going the other way.
> but he had the notion that he wanted to follow ted nelson, so he
> went for the "hypertext" model instead, and botched everything,
> including all of the brilliant things that nelson _actually_ meant...
> gruber gets the markdown attention because gruber gets attention.
> but if all of you implementers got yourselves _around_ a table and
> decided to develop "markaround" to go _around_ gruber, you could.
> if you all agreed, amongst yourselves, gruber doesn't have enough
> power -- or programming chops, or fame -- to thwart all of you...
> the question is whether you'd rather be big fish in your own ponds,
> in the backchannels of the lake of gruber, or go swim in the ocean.
> of course, pandoc might just sweep you all into the ocean anyway...
> and once again, none of this is a dig. i haven't shared my own z.m.l.
> with the world because i want to retain control over it, so that _my_
> implementation is the _only_ one, so it is canonical, and therefore
> there is absolutely no confusion about what the whole thing means.
> with markdown, though, you do not have the luxury of such clarity...
> michel said:
> > What we really need is an effort in the style of HTML5's HTML
> > parsing algorithm which provides an unambiguous definition
> > of how things should be parsed.
> that's right.
> > Heck, I started one a while ago for Markdown Extra
> > ...
> > Then I stopped because I realized it'd be too long and that I had
> > many more interesting projects I could do in that free time.
> the other thing is that you were doing the task as the lead actor...
> this effort will only work if it's a collaboration amongst all of you.
> and each of you is probably going to have to give something up...
> (unless you can find a sharp way to tease out all the ambiguities.
> which, if you _can_ do that, will be the best solution for everyone.)
> > Still, thanks for your analysis. It's refreshing to have
> > an outsider's opinion one time in a while.
> hey, who you calling "an outsider"? i was researching light-markup
> years before gruber and swartz came along. this is my house, and
> you kids better stop playing on my lawn... outsider my ass! ;+)
> seriously, though, markdown has been great for light-markup, and
> i sincerely hope that you guys move markaround to the next level...
> drang said:
> > Fish, eh? I thought I smelled something…
> you funny! :+)
> but if you sincerely want to "call" it, you can.
> i have promised to release my app when i get
> 100 people signed-up on this web-page here:
> > http://jaguarps.blogspot.com/2011/04/blog-post_14.html
> once i put it out in the world, you can criticize it
> to the depths and heights of your heart's desire.
> yes, i'm sittin' here, right on the edge of the dunk-tank,
> daring you to step up and fire a hardball at the target...
> albert said:
> > Extensions address the question of limited scope, and
> > if they are to grow useful, it seems reasonable to inform them
> > with a more abstract purpose; e.g., enriching plain text with
> > logical structure, rather than making macros for html.
> that's quite astute.
> thomas said:
> > You may also look at the syntax specification for kramdown
> you've done a very good job, thomas, really a smashup job...
> my reservation is based on my reaction that "this isn't simple".
> that might be the way you've explained it. (like michel's work,
> your documentation seems to be aimed at the _format_wonks,_
> who care about "block level versus span level" and such things.)
> or it might be that the underlying framework is just too difficult.
> (specifically, i wonder if all the hassles of "lazy syntax linewrap"
> outweigh the convenience... in my own work, i had to offer that
> -- as project gutenberg files have mid-paragraph linebreaks --
> but i worked out a way that it doesn't have to be quite so hard.)
> so i just can't tell if it's the documentation or the framework, but
> either way, if you can't find a more simple way to explain all of it
> to ordinary people, i'm afraid you ain't gonna get a lot of uptake.
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