Proposed table specification (long!)

[Chinyoka on Macbook]

Thanks for the great publishing system but I failed to add my comment to the already 89 ones I saw due to the verification code. Tried the audio one but to no joy, so hey I don't know how on earth I can add my signature to be the 90th. But I find that promising and just wonder whether it would work on Mac as well. 

I am also wondering whether there would be a way to split a document into many pages. I checked with other Markdown implementations and wish they would have a way to split a document into pages: for instance, Cramdown looked like it could if Thomas wanted to make it one of those options you can put between those sharp brackets and colons.

Currently, I am using PHP Markdown Extra for my web publishing, but want a solid desktop option. I sometimes wish there were a desktop version, whether command line or GUI, that would work like that PHP Markdown Extra.
So I hope your solution may be the answer to this. 
Anyway, it looks like Markdown in 2011 is heading for exciting moments with or without Gruber's blessing.


Thanks
Ishe

Mobile number: +263 772 930 422
WEB URL: www.chinyoka-educational.com
Skype ID: sunshinechinyoka

On 18 May,2011, at 7:21 PM, Bowerbird at aol.com wrote:


> slept on this, but decided to send anyway, make it a trilogy...

> 

> ***

> 

> david said:

> >   Well, then why don't you do it?

> 

> i've got some other fish to fry right now, in my own project,

> but i will get around to tables soon enough with that myself,

> and i'll be very happy to show people the results when i do...

> 

> and here are some of the "challenges" i'll want to try to handle:

> >   http://www.pgdp.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4311&start=0

> >   http://www.pgdp.net/wiki/Formatting_Examples/Gallery_of_Table_Layouts

> 

> ***

> 

> rob said:

> >   with all due respect, it's more than a little arrogant for 

> >   anyone to insist that they got it perfect the first time (1.0.1). 

> 

> well, gruber is well-known for being arrogant, but i do believe

> that he has never insisted, or even claimed, he got it all "perfect".

> and besides, the current charge is _neglect_, and not _arrogance_.

> 

> but all of that is a dodge as well.  gruber isn't really the factor here.

> the _real_ problem is that there's several different implementations,

> and they differ between each other, and none of 'em is significantly

> better than the others, so none of them can overcome the stalemate.

> 

> i repeat:  it has nothing to do with gruber.  nothing at all.  really.

> the only thing gruber could do is bless a successor.  and he won't.

> 

> 

> >   The idea of Markdown, not the implementation, is what's special.

> 

> nope.  lots of other people had "the idea" long before gruber.

> 

> indeed, "structured text" -- from which "restructured text" was

> derived -- dates back to the 1990s, and was a contender against

> the likes of .sgml.  if tim berners-lee would have been smarter,

> he woulda chosen light-markup instead of going the other way.

> but he had the notion that he wanted to follow ted nelson, so he

> went for the "hypertext" model instead, and botched everything,

> including all of the brilliant things that nelson _actually_ meant...

> 

> gruber gets the markdown attention because gruber gets attention.

> 

> but if all of you implementers got yourselves _around_ a table and

> decided to develop "markaround" to go _around_ gruber, you could.

> 

> if you all agreed, amongst yourselves, gruber doesn't have enough

> power -- or programming chops, or fame -- to thwart all of you...

> 

> the question is whether you'd rather be big fish in your own ponds,

> in the backchannels of the lake of gruber, or go swim in the ocean.

> of course, pandoc might just sweep you all into the ocean anyway...

> 

> and once again, none of this is a dig.  i haven't shared my own z.m.l.

> with the world because i want to retain control over it, so that _my_

> implementation is the _only_ one, so it is canonical, and therefore

> there is absolutely no confusion about what the whole thing means.

> with markdown, though, you do not have the luxury of such clarity...

> 

> ***

> 

> michel said:

> >   What we really need is an effort in the style of HTML5's HTML 

> >   parsing algorithm which provides an unambiguous definition 

> >   of how things should be parsed.

> 

> that's right.

> 

> 

> >   Heck, I started one a while ago for Markdown Extra

> >   ...

> >   Then I stopped because I realized it'd be too long and that I had

> >   many more interesting projects I could do in that free time. 

> 

> the other thing is that you were doing the task as the lead actor...

> this effort will only work if it's a collaboration amongst all of you.

> and each of you is probably going to have to give something up...

> (unless you can find a sharp way to tease out all the ambiguities.

> which, if you _can_ do that, will be the best solution for everyone.)

> 

> 

> >   Still, thanks for your analysis. It's refreshing to have 

> >   an outsider's opinion one time in a while. 

> 

> hey, who you calling "an outsider"?  i was researching light-markup

> years before gruber and swartz came along.  this is my house, and

> you kids better stop playing on my lawn...  outsider my ass!        ;+)

> 

> seriously, though, markdown has been great for light-markup, and

> i sincerely hope that you guys move markaround to the next level...

> 

> ***

> 

> drang said:

> >   Fish, eh? I thought I smelled something…

> 

> you funny!       :+)

> 

> but if you sincerely want to "call" it, you can.

> 

> i have promised to release my app when i get

> 100 people signed-up on this web-page here:

> >   http://jaguarps.blogspot.com/2011/04/blog-post_14.html

> 

> once i put it out in the world, you can criticize it

> to the depths and heights of your heart's desire.

> 

> yes, i'm sittin' here, right on the edge of the dunk-tank,

> daring you to step up and fire a hardball at the target...

> 

> ***

> 

> albert said:

> >   Extensions address the question of limited scope, and 

> >   if they are to grow useful, it seems reasonable to inform them 

> >   with a more abstract purpose; e.g., enriching plain text with 

> >   logical structure, rather than making macros for html. 

> 

> that's quite astute.

> 

> ***

> 

> thomas said:

> >   You may also look at the syntax specification for kramdown

> 

> you've done a very good job, thomas, really a smashup job...

> 

> my reservation is based on my reaction that "this isn't simple".

> 

> that might be the way you've explained it.  (like michel's work,

> your documentation seems to be aimed at the _format_wonks,_

> who care about "block level versus span level" and such things.)

> 

> or it might be that the underlying framework is just too difficult.

> (specifically, i wonder if all the hassles of "lazy syntax linewrap"

> outweigh the convenience...  in my own work, i had to offer that

> -- as project gutenberg files have mid-paragraph linebreaks --

> but i worked out a way that it doesn't have to be quite so hard.)

> 

> so i just can't tell if it's the documentation or the framework, but

> either way, if you can't find a more simple way to explain all of it

> to ordinary people, i'm afraid you ain't gonna get a lot of uptake.

> 

> -bowerbird

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