From gerald.bauer at gmail.com Mon Mar 20 09:47:18 2017 From: gerald.bauer at gmail.com (Gerald Bauer) Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 14:47:18 +0100 Subject: Original Markdown.pl v1.0.1 Script (Anno 2004) Unzipped and Archived for Easy Browsing on Github Message-ID: Hello, Anyone knows if the original Markdown.pl [1] script by John Gruber has a home on GitHub (or similar service) for easy browsing? Cheers. PS: I've unzipped the Markdown_1.0.1.zip "distro" package and uploaded a copy to the mundimark/markdown.pl [2] repo. Happy browsing.. [1] http://daringfireball.net/projects/markdown [2] https://github.com/mundimark/markdown.pl From pagaltzis at gmx.de Mon Mar 20 10:47:55 2017 From: pagaltzis at gmx.de (Aristotle Pagaltzis) Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 15:47:55 +0100 Subject: Original Markdown.pl v1.0.1 Script (Anno 2004) Unzipped and Archived for Easy Browsing on Github In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20170320144754.GA49336@plasmasturm.org> Hi Gerald, * Gerald Bauer [2017-03-20 14:48]: > Anyone knows if the original Markdown.pl [1] script by John Gruber > has a home on GitHub (or similar service) for easy browsing? some time ago I set up a repo which has each Markdown.pl release as a commit on master: https://github.com/ap/Markdown Or rather, every release I could still find. The release tarballs and zips are all committed in the `sources` branch, together with a script to generate the `master` branch history from them, plus a README to explain the whole conceit: https://github.com/ap/Markdown/tree/sources I have been intending to ping John about this, as well as to put out a public call for anyone who happens to still have other releases, but that hasn?t happened yet. Nevertheless, what?s there is at least a start. Regards, -- Aristotle Pagaltzis // From gerald.bauer at gmail.com Mon Mar 20 11:14:40 2017 From: gerald.bauer at gmail.com (Gerald Bauer) Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 16:14:40 +0100 Subject: Original Markdown.pl v1.0.1 Script (Anno 2004) Unzipped and Archived for Easy Browsing on Github In-Reply-To: <20170320144754.GA49336@plasmasturm.org> References: <20170320144754.GA49336@plasmasturm.org> Message-ID: Hello, Great. Thanks for highlighting the Markdown repo. Way better. Has all the version from 1.0 to 1.0.2b8. Might upgrade to 1.0.2b8 ;-) not sure where I can find it. Cheers. PS: By the way I added the SmartyPants "addon" [1] to the repo too. [1] https://github.com/mundimark/markdown.pl/tree/master/smartypants 2017-03-20 15:47 GMT+01:00 Aristotle Pagaltzis : > Hi Gerald, > > * Gerald Bauer [2017-03-20 14:48]: >> Anyone knows if the original Markdown.pl [1] script by John Gruber >> has a home on GitHub (or similar service) for easy browsing? > > some time ago I set up a repo which has each Markdown.pl release as > a commit on master: https://github.com/ap/Markdown > > Or rather, every release I could still find. The release tarballs and > zips are all committed in the `sources` branch, together with a script > to generate the `master` branch history from them, plus a README to > explain the whole conceit: https://github.com/ap/Markdown/tree/sources > > I have been intending to ping John about this, as well as to put out > a public call for anyone who happens to still have other releases, > but that hasn?t happened yet. Nevertheless, what?s there is at least > a start. > > Regards, > -- > Aristotle Pagaltzis // > _______________________________________________ > Markdown-Discuss mailing list > Markdown-Discuss at six.pairlist.net > https://pairlist6.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/markdown-discuss From nico.h at gmx.de Fri Mar 31 12:57:41 2017 From: nico.h at gmx.de (Nico Huber) Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2017 18:57:41 +0200 Subject: Proposal for (source-side) hyphenation support Message-ID: <77b0c81f-5ca4-4725-2ae4-5070580aa5df@gmx.de> Hi there, don't know if this has been discussed before, or if I just overlooked how to do it: I'm missing support for hyphenation in Markdown files. Looking at always ragged HTML pages is already hard enough, so I can't bear anything but halfway justified text in my editor and manually hy- phenate words. I would do it as follows: 1. If a hyphen followed by a single new-line character is encountered "-\n[^\n]", drop the hyphen and any following whitespace. 2. In case you have to break a word that includes a hyphen, you would escape the new-line character "-\\\n". Like this: Escape new-\ line character to preserve the hyphen. This way, the hyphen wouldn't occur in front of the new-line char and 1. doesn't apply. Although, any whitespace following the new-line char would also have to be dropped in this case. What do you think? Regards, Nico From dennis.hamilton at acm.org Fri Mar 31 13:27:24 2017 From: dennis.hamilton at acm.org (Dennis E. Hamilton) Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2017 10:27:24 -0700 Subject: Proposal for (source-side) hyphenation support In-Reply-To: <77b0c81f-5ca4-4725-2ae4-5070580aa5df@gmx.de> References: <77b0c81f-5ca4-4725-2ae4-5070580aa5df@gmx.de> Message-ID: <007f01d2aa44$107c8620$31759260$@acm.org> > -----Original Message----- > From: Markdown-Discuss [mailto:markdown-discuss- > bounces at six.pairlist.net] On Behalf Of Nico Huber > Sent: Friday, March 31, 2017 09:58 > To: markdown-discuss > Subject: Proposal for (source-side) hyphenation support > > Hi there, > > don't know if this has been discussed before, or if I just overlooked > how to do it: I'm missing support for hyphenation in Markdown files. > Looking at always ragged HTML pages is already hard enough, so I can't > bear anything but halfway justified text in my editor and manually hy- > phenate words. > > I would do it as follows: 1. If a hyphen followed by a single new-line > character is encountered "-\n[^\n]", drop the hyphen and any following > whitespace. 2. In case you have to break a word that includes a hyphen, > you would escape the new-line character "-\\\n". Like this: Escape new-\ > line character to preserve the hyphen. This way, the hyphen wouldn't > occur in front of the new-line char and 1. doesn't apply. Although, any > whitespace following the new-line char would also have to be dropped in > this case. > > What do you think? [orcmid] I think we need to think about how this is conveyed into HTML, and what browsers might do, since that is where the actual layout width is determined. It should be assumed that reflow can happen at any time and the soft-hyphen might be usable along with whatever other automatic hyphenation the browser uses. A direct method would be to insert soft-hyphen (SHY) codes, code-point 0xAD in Unicode and in Latin-1. I recommend working backward from that to find a Markdown escape that serves this purpose. > > Regards, > Nico > _______________________________________________ > Markdown-Discuss mailing list > Markdown-Discuss at six.pairlist.net > https://pairlist6.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/markdown-discuss From nico.h at gmx.de Fri Mar 31 14:33:02 2017 From: nico.h at gmx.de (Nico Huber) Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2017 20:33:02 +0200 Subject: Proposal for (source-side) hyphenation support In-Reply-To: <007f01d2aa44$107c8620$31759260$@acm.org> References: <77b0c81f-5ca4-4725-2ae4-5070580aa5df@gmx.de> <007f01d2aa44$107c8620$31759260$@acm.org> Message-ID: On 31.03.2017 19:27, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote: > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Markdown-Discuss [mailto:markdown-discuss- >> bounces at six.pairlist.net] On Behalf Of Nico Huber >> Sent: Friday, March 31, 2017 09:58 >> To: markdown-discuss >> Subject: Proposal for (source-side) hyphenation support >> >> Hi there, >> >> don't know if this has been discussed before, or if I just overlooked >> how to do it: I'm missing support for hyphenation in Markdown files. >> Looking at always ragged HTML pages is already hard enough, so I can't >> bear anything but halfway justified text in my editor and manually hy- >> phenate words. >> >> I would do it as follows: 1. If a hyphen followed by a single new-line >> character is encountered "-\n[^\n]", drop the hyphen and any following >> whitespace. 2. In case you have to break a word that includes a hyphen, >> you would escape the new-line character "-\\\n". Like this: Escape new-\ >> line character to preserve the hyphen. This way, the hyphen wouldn't >> occur in front of the new-line char and 1. doesn't apply. Although, any >> whitespace following the new-line char would also have to be dropped in >> this case. >> >> What do you think? > [orcmid] > > I think we need to think about how this is conveyed into HTML, and what > browsers might do, since that is where the actual layout width is > determined. It should be assumed that reflow can happen at any time and > the soft-hyphen might be usable along with whatever other automatic > hyphenation the browser uses. > > A direct method would be to insert soft-hyphen (SHY) codes, code-point > 0xAD in Unicode and in Latin-1. > > I recommend working backward from that to find a Markdown escape that > serves this purpose. Sorry, I should have made it more clear. I'm not talking about any effective change of the output. My purpose is to enhance readability of the Markdown source. Any "escape" that differs visually much from the usual hyphen before a line break wouldn't serve "this purpose". The ability to add hyphenation hints in the output might be useful, too. But is off topic for me. Nico From sgbotsford at gmail.com Fri Mar 31 16:53:17 2017 From: sgbotsford at gmail.com (Sherwood Botsford) Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2017 14:53:17 -0600 Subject: Proposal for (source-side) hyphenation support In-Reply-To: References: <77b0c81f-5ca4-4725-2ae4-5070580aa5df@gmx.de> <007f01d2aa44$107c8620$31759260$@acm.org> Message-ID: You don't want to do it in markdown at all. A better way to do this would be with a dictionary that knew how words were hyphenated, and it would insert soft hyphens globally. This would likely be a post processing step. E.g. Markdown -> Html -> softhypenate. You want it to be separate because different languages have differing conventions. Ideally, you want it robust. So you try to do as much as possible with rules, then you are explicit with the odd balls. This would make a program that did the right thing most of the time. This *should* happen in the browser. I won't hold my breath. Regards Sherwood On 31 March 2017 at 12:33, Nico Huber wrote: > On 31.03.2017 19:27, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote: > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Markdown-Discuss [mailto:markdown-discuss- > >> bounces at six.pairlist.net] On Behalf Of Nico Huber > >> Sent: Friday, March 31, 2017 09:58 > >> To: markdown-discuss > >> Subject: Proposal for (source-side) hyphenation support > >> > >> Hi there, > >> > >> don't know if this has been discussed before, or if I just overlooked > >> how to do it: I'm missing support for hyphenation in Markdown files. > >> Looking at always ragged HTML pages is already hard enough, so I can't > >> bear anything but halfway justified text in my editor and manually hy- > >> phenate words. > >> > >> I would do it as follows: 1. If a hyphen followed by a single new-line > >> character is encountered "-\n[^\n]", drop the hyphen and any following > >> whitespace. 2. In case you have to break a word that includes a hyphen, > >> you would escape the new-line character "-\\\n". Like this: Escape new-\ > >> line character to preserve the hyphen. This way, the hyphen wouldn't > >> occur in front of the new-line char and 1. doesn't apply. Although, any > >> whitespace following the new-line char would also have to be dropped in > >> this case. > >> > >> What do you think? > > [orcmid] > > > > I think we need to think about how this is conveyed into HTML, and what > > browsers might do, since that is where the actual layout width is > > determined. It should be assumed that reflow can happen at any time and > > the soft-hyphen might be usable along with whatever other automatic > > hyphenation the browser uses. > > > > A direct method would be to insert soft-hyphen (SHY) codes, code-point > > 0xAD in Unicode and in Latin-1. > > > > I recommend working backward from that to find a Markdown escape that > > serves this purpose. > > Sorry, I should have made it more clear. I'm not talking about any > effective change of the output. My purpose is to enhance readability > of the Markdown source. Any "escape" that differs visually much from > the usual hyphen before a line break wouldn't serve "this purpose". > > The ability to add hyphenation hints in the output might be useful, > too. But is off topic for me. > > Nico > _______________________________________________ > Markdown-Discuss mailing list > Markdown-Discuss at six.pairlist.net > https://pairlist6.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/markdown-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hahj87 at gmail.com Fri Mar 31 18:26:58 2017 From: hahj87 at gmail.com (Joshua Haase) Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2017 16:26:58 -0600 Subject: Proposal for (source-side) hyphenation support In-Reply-To: References: <77b0c81f-5ca4-4725-2ae4-5070580aa5df@gmx.de> <007f01d2aa44$107c8620$31759260$@acm.org> Message-ID: <87k275axql.fsf@riseup.net> Sherwood Botsford writes: > You don't want to do it in markdown at all. > > A better way to do this would be with a dictionary that knew how words were > hyphenated, and it would insert soft hyphens globally. > > This would likely be a post processing step. E.g. Markdown -> Html -> > softhypenate. I agree. From nico.h at gmx.de Fri Mar 31 18:35:31 2017 From: nico.h at gmx.de (Nico Huber) Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2017 00:35:31 +0200 Subject: Proposal for (source-side) hyphenation support In-Reply-To: <87k275axql.fsf@riseup.net> References: <77b0c81f-5ca4-4725-2ae4-5070580aa5df@gmx.de> <007f01d2aa44$107c8620$31759260$@acm.org> <87k275axql.fsf@riseup.net> Message-ID: On 01.04.2017 00:26, Joshua Haase wrote: > Sherwood Botsford writes: > >> You don't want to do it in markdown at all. >> >> A better way to do this would be with a dictionary that knew how words were >> hyphenated, and it would insert soft hyphens globally. >> >> This would likely be a post processing step. E.g. Markdown -> Html -> >> softhypenate. > > I agree. Huh, could you please open your own thread. I already tried to make it clear that hyphenation in the output format is off-topic. Nico From dennis.hamilton at acm.org Fri Mar 31 20:24:47 2017 From: dennis.hamilton at acm.org (Dennis E. Hamilton) Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2017 17:24:47 -0700 Subject: Proposal for (source-side) hyphenation support In-Reply-To: References: <77b0c81f-5ca4-4725-2ae4-5070580aa5df@gmx.de> <007f01d2aa44$107c8620$31759260$@acm.org> Message-ID: <002401d2aa7e$5ec90800$1c5b1800$@acm.org> > -----Original Message----- > From: Nico Huber [mailto:nico.h at gmx.de] > Sent: Friday, March 31, 2017 11:33 > To: dennis.hamilton at acm.org; Discussion related to Markdown. discuss at six.pairlist.net> > Subject: Re: Proposal for (source-side) hyphenation support > > On 31.03.2017 19:27, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote: > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Markdown-Discuss [mailto:markdown-discuss- > >> bounces at six.pairlist.net] On Behalf Of Nico Huber > >> Sent: Friday, March 31, 2017 09:58 > >> To: markdown-discuss > >> Subject: Proposal for (source-side) hyphenation support > >> > >> Hi there, > >> > >> don't know if this has been discussed before, or if I just overlooked > >> how to do it: I'm missing support for hyphenation in Markdown files. > >> Looking at always ragged HTML pages is already hard enough, so I > can't > >> bear anything but halfway justified text in my editor and manually > hy- > >> phenate words. [ ... ] > > > > I think we need to think about how this is conveyed into HTML, and > what > > browsers might do, since that is where the actual layout width is > > determined. It should be assumed that reflow can happen at any time > and > > the soft-hyphen might be usable along with whatever other automatic > > hyphenation the browser uses. > > > > A direct method would be to insert soft-hyphen (SHY) codes, code-point > > 0xAD in Unicode and in Latin-1. > > > > I recommend working backward from that to find a Markdown escape that > > serves this purpose. > > Sorry, I should have made it more clear. I'm not talking about any > effective change of the output. My purpose is to enhance readability > of the Markdown source. Any "escape" that differs visually much from > the usual hyphen before a line break wouldn't serve "this purpose". [orcmid] I don't understand the use-case you describe. What do you expect the (canonical) HTML to be and how is it determined that a hard hyphen is involved? Or are you breaking the hyphenation in the markdown but don't want the break in the result; you want to glue the word back together (and reflow of the output makes a break or not)? Is this more like you want to insert a hard break in the Markdown text, but it is invisible in the output, sort of like the C-Language(s) "\" line-ending? > > The ability to add hyphenation hints in the output might be useful, > too. But is off topic for me. > > Nico From fletcher at fletcherpenney.net Fri Mar 31 22:22:37 2017 From: fletcher at fletcherpenney.net (Fletcher T. Penney) Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2017 22:22:37 -0400 Subject: Proposal for (source-side) hyphenation support In-Reply-To: <77b0c81f-5ca4-4725-2ae4-5070580aa5df@gmx.de> References: <77b0c81f-5ca4-4725-2ae4-5070580aa5df@gmx.de> Message-ID: Nico, Just for the sake of giving you an on-topic reply ;) .... I understand that you don't want to change HTML, just the Markdown syntax to basically ignore manually entered hyphens at the end of lines. 1. Markdown, per se, is frozen as it has not seen an update in 10+ years (I'm too lazy to check exact dates right now, but it's close enough.) So, at best, you could hope to get your proposal accepted by some subset of Markdown variants. Or create your own. ;) 2. To me, this seems to be a rather idiosyncratic request. I understand that it is a desirable feature to you, but I suspect the number of others who desire this feature is quite low (witness that most replies don't even *understand* your request, much less support it.) 3. I think your best bet is to implement it yourself in your own build of Markdown (or whatever variant you prefer.) That could be done rather quickly, as compared to the time it would take to garner enough support to implement it more broadly. Alternatively, you could quickly create a pre-processing script that searches for your regexp and strips out any matches before passing your source to your markdown processor. Something like the following (not tested, just to prompt actual ideas): cat text.md | perl -pe 's/\-\n([^\n])/$1/g' | Markdown.pl > output.html 4. As to your specific syntax suggestion, this would not work well in MultiMarkdown, as the `\\\n` syntax is already used to indicate linebreaks, in addition to the ` \n` (space-space-newline) to improve visibility. Hope some of that helps... Fletcher On 3/31/17 12:57 PM, Nico Huber wrote: > Hi there, > > don't know if this has been discussed before, or if I just overlooked > how to do it: I'm missing support for hyphenation in Markdown files. > Looking at always ragged HTML pages is already hard enough, so I can't > bear anything but halfway justified text in my editor and manually hy- > phenate words. > > I would do it as follows: 1. If a hyphen followed by a single new-line > character is encountered "-\n[^\n]", drop the hyphen and any following > whitespace. 2. In case you have to break a word that includes a hyphen, > you would escape the new-line character "-\\\n". Like this: Escape new-\ > line character to preserve the hyphen. This way, the hyphen wouldn't > occur in front of the new-line char and 1. doesn't apply. Although, any > whitespace following the new-line char would also have to be dropped in > this case. > > What do you think? > > Regards, > Nico > _______________________________________________ > Markdown-Discuss mailing list > Markdown-Discuss at six.pairlist.net > https://pairlist6.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/markdown-discuss > -- Fletcher T. Penney fletcher at fletcherpenney.net