[meteorite-list] 'Plutons' Push Planet Total Up To 12

[Larry Lebofsky]

Hi Sterling:

Yes, Sterling, Ceres is a planet (if this passes the General Assembly). With 
respect to Ceres being a carbonaceous chondrite this comparison has been made 
since the early 80s. Google my name and Ceres and there are many hits for 
water on Ceres.

Larry



Quoting "Sterling K. Webb" <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net>:


> Hi,

> 

> 

>     Yes, Ceres is a planet again... if a vote of the whole is in favor!

> I predict a cantankerous electorate on August 24th! Ceres was a

> planet officially from 1804 to 1864, In 1855, the Big Four were

> retained as planets but all the others were demoted to minor planets.

> In the US, Ceres continued to be mentioned as a planet up into

> the 1870's.

> 

>     All planets have official planet symbols, you know. We've

> all seen them; they're on jewelry even. Is there a market for

> a new symbol for the new planets (if they vote'em into the

> club)? Well, Ceres, Vesta, Pallas, and Juno already have

> symbols from back when they were planets the other time.

> Good old Naval Observatory has 'em:

> http://aa.usno.navy.mil/hilton/AsteroidHistory/minorplanets.html

> 

>     But "Xena" and the other qualifying crutons, er, plutons

> don't. Probably have to wait until they have names...

> 

>     Ceres and the rest of the Big Four, even in 1864, were

> thought to be much larger than they really are. "At the time...

> the most widely disseminated values for the diameters of

> the first four asteroids discovered were Ceres, 2613 km

> (really 975x909); Pallas, 3380 km (really 570x525x500);

> Juno, 2290 km (really 290x240x190); and Vesta (really

> 578x560x458), not more than 383 km." Well, they were

> close on Vesta... You'll notice that only Ceres is really

> ROUND enough...

> 

>     Ceres density 2.08. Pluto density 2.03. Both densities are

> most easily modeled by a 50-50 mixture of ice 1.0 and rock 3.0,

> or some quibbly variation thereof. However, Ceres is darker

> (albedo 0.113 versus 0.50). There are signs Ceres has a transient

> atmosphere like Pluto. Ceres appears to have complex organic

> chemistry, so it may be the solar system's largest carbonaceous

> chondrite!

> http://www-

ssc.igpp.ucla.edu/dawn/newsletter/html/20030822/ceres_evolution.html

> 

>     The DAWN mission will get to Vesta October 2011

> and reach Ceres February 2015. Both Vesta and Ceres

> will be full-surface mapped. DAWN will carry two LDR

> LEON2 chip framing cameras as described below:

> http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/database/MasterCatalog?sc=DAWN&ex=1

> 

>     The resolution on the low-orbit passes will be a sharp

> 5 meters per pixel, roughly comparable to the Mars HiRISE

> camera. It'll be stupendous. I really hope I live until 2015.

> 

>     Brian Marsden, in the article below:

> <http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/050802_planet_definition.html>

> is quoted as saying if the Allan Stern definition of a planet

> were used (everything spherical that goes 'round its star

> and doesn't fusion inside), we'd have 24 planets.

>     Marsden wasn't in favor of the Stern definition, and

> it appears that the Stern definition is pretty much what

> the IAU Committee submitted for a vote.

>     But, the way they're putting it forward is that Pluto

> stays, Ceres gets planet status (again), 2003UB313

> is a planet and Brown gets to apply for a planet name.

> Now, there's a moment in an astronomer's life!

> 

>     I think Marsden was exaggerating (he's in charge

> of non-planets and the shepperd could lose some sheep)

> when he said 24. Stern says 20... Let's start counting.

> 

>     Ceres is Planet 5. Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune

> all get their numbers bumped up one. Pluto, the "nineth"

> planet (might be) is now Planet X (for Ten) and Charon

> is Planet 11. If we add 2003UB313 ("Xena"), 2003FY9,

> 2003EL61, Sedna, and Quaoar we have 16 planets.

> Now, can everybody spell Q U A O A R ?

> Can ANYBODY say it?

> 

>     Whoops! We have to add 90482 Orcus; it's bigger

> than Quaoar. That makes 17 planets. There are five

> more KBO's for which a case could be made, except

> that circularity might be a problem; they're smaller and

> could be irregular. That would be 22 planets. Or 24.

> Or 20. Schoolchildren are going hate us! 17 planets to

> memorize ("Do I gotta?!") AND learn how to spell

> QUAOAR?

> 

>     Somebody is sure to get offensive about 2003EL61

> just because it isn't round. I think we need an exception

> for dynamic distortion. Yeah, true 2003EL61 is about

> 1960 x 1520 x 1000 km. Not very round. OK, it had this

> really rough childhood, see... But its density is almost

> as great as the Earth's Moon! This is no iceball! It's

> solid rock. It rotates in 4 hours; it's dynamically distorted,

> So is Jupiter and all other rotating bodies. Even I have a mild

> equatorial bulge and I'm not spinning at all.

> 

> 

> Sterling K. Webb

> ---------------------------------------------------------------------

> ----- Original Message ----- 

> From: "Darren Garrison" <cynapse at charter.net>

> To: "Meteorite Mailing List" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>

> Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 11:17 PM

> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] 'Plutons' Push Planet Total Up To 12

> 

> 

> On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 23:04:18 -0500, you wrote:

> 

> >    Spoze he meant CHIRON?

> 

> Naming a drug company as a planet would be even more of a problem.  What 

> would

> be next, planet Eily Lilly?

> 

> On a more serious note, the article mentions Ceres.  I'm not clear on this, 

> were

> they saying that Ceres would be given planet status?  Surely it wouldn't be

> lumped in as a cruton... I mean Pluton?

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-- 
Dr. Larry A. Lebofsky
Senior Research Scientist
Co-editor, Meteorite                      "If you give a man a fish,   
Lunar and Planetary Laboratory               you feed him for a day.
1541 East University                       If you teach a man to fish,
University of Arizona                        you feed him for a lifetime."
Tucson, AZ 85721-0063                                     ~Chinese Proverb
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