[meteorite-list] Two other accounts of the Holocene start impacts

[Bill]

Bleh, put AD in your subject line.

Bill



> -----Original Message-----

> From: epgrondine at yahoo.com

> Sent: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 13:45:07 -0700 (PDT)

> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com

> Subject: [meteorite-list] Two other accounts of the Holocene start

> impacts

> 

> Hi all -

> 

> My thanks to those who ordered their personally signed

> copies of "Man and Impact in the Americas" during my

> recent "discussions" with Paul and Darren. Your copies

>  should be arriving soon.

> 

> During those "discussions" I previously shared with

> the list a Lenape account of the Holocene Start

> Impacts, and now I want to share two Iroquoian

> accounts of Holocene start impacts, and some comments

> on what they perhaps tell us about the new research.

> 

> A MOHAWK ACCOUNT OF THE END OF THE ICE AGE,

> SHORTLY BEFORE Ca. 8,350 BCE

> 

> The following passage is adapted from a Mohawk version

> of the creation myth given by Seth Newhouse to J.N.B.

> Hewitt.

> 

> "It came to pass that the Good Mind, as he traveled

> from place to place, after a while went along the

> shore of the lake (Lake Ontario). There, not far away,

> he saw the Bad Mind making for himself a bridge of ice

> across the lake, a bridge which already extended far

> out on the water.

> 

> "Thereupon the Good Mind went to the place where the

> Bad Mind was working, and when he arrived there, he

> said: "Tawi'skaron, what is this that you are doing

> for yourself?"  The Bad Mind replied, saying: "I am

> making a pathway for myself." And then, pointing in

> the direction toward which he was building the bridge,

> he added: "In that direction there is a land where

> dwell great animals of fierce dispositions. As soon as

> I complete my pathway to that other land, thereafter

> they will habitually come over. Along this pathway

> they will be in the habit of coming across the lake to

> eat the flesh of human beings who are about to dwell

> on the earth."

> 

> "So then the Good Mind said to the Bad Mind: "You

> should stop the work which you are doing. Surely the

> intention of your mind is not good." The Bad Mind

> replied, saying: "I will not cease from what I am

> doing, for, of course, it is good that these great

> animals shall be in the habit of coming here to eat

> the flesh of human beings who will dwell here."

> 

> "So of course the Bad Mind did not obey and cease from

> building the bridge for himself, and thereupon the

> Good Mind turned back and reached dry land. Now along

> the shore of the sea grew shrubs, and he saw a bird

> sitting on a limb of one. The bird belonged to the

> class of birds which we call the bluebirds. And the

> Good Mind then said to this Bluebird: "You shall kill

> a cricket. You shall remove one hind leg from it, and

> you shall hold it in your mouth, and you shall go

> there to the very place where the Bad Mind is working.

> You shall land very near to the place where he is

> working, and you shall cry out."

> 

> "And the Bluebird replied, saying, "Yo".  Thereupon

> the Bluebird truly did seek for a cricket, and after a

> while it found one, and it killed it, too. Then it

> pulled out one of the cricket's hind legs and put it

> into its mouth to hold, and then it flew, winging its

> way to the place where the Bad Mind was at work making

> his ice bridge.

> 

> "There it landed, near to him at his task. And of

> course it then shouted, "Kwe', kwe', kwe', kwe',

> kwe'." At which the Bad Mind raised up his head and

> looked, and he saw the bluebird sitting there. He

> believed from what he saw that the bluebird held in

> its mouth the thigh of a man, and also that its mouth

> was wholly covered with blood.

> 

> "It was then that the Bad Mind sprang up at once and

> fled. As fast as he ran the bridge of ice which he was

> making dissipated."

> 

> COMMENT: What was this Bluebird with its mouth covered

> with blood, whose appearance caused the ice to melt?

> Was it a comet passing through space all too near to

> the Earth? Is there anything else that could account

> for such an "absurd" memory?  Is there any other

> reason to account for the preservation of such a

> strange memory?

> 

> A TUSCARORA ACCOUNT OF A HOLOCENE START IMPACT ON THE

> SAINT LAWRENCE RIVER

> 

> The following passage has been adapted to modern usage

> from an account given by Tuscaroran Chief Elias

> Johnson.

> 

> A Great Horned Serpent also next appeared on Lake

> Ontario who, by means of his poisonous breath, caused

> disease, and caused the death of many.

> 

> At length the old women congregated, with one accord,

> and prayed to the Great Spirit that he would send

> their grandfather, the Thunder, who would get to their

> relief in this, their sore time of trouble, while at

> the same time burning tobacco as burned offerings. And

> so finally the monster was compelled to retire in the

> deeps of the lake by thunderbolts.

> 

> Before this calamity was forgotten another happened. A

> blazing star fell into their fort, situated on the

> banks of the St. Lawrence, and destroyed the people.

> Such a phenomenon caused a great panic and

> consternation and dread, which they regarded as

> ominous of their entire destruction. Not long after

> this prediction of the blazing star it was verified.

> 

> These tribes, who were held together by feeble ties,

> fell into dispute and wars among themselves, which

> were pursued through a long period, until they had

> utterly destroyed each other, and so reduced their

> numbers that the lands were again overrun with wild

> beasts.

> 

> At this period there were six families who took refuge

> in a large cave in a mountain, where they dwelled for

> a long time. The men would come out occasionally to

> hunt for food. This great cave was situated at or near

> the falls of the Oswego River.

> 

> The Holder of the Heavens then came and extricated

> these six families from the subterraneous bowels and

> confines of the mountain. The people always looked to

> this divine messenger, who had power to assume various

> shapes as emergency demanded, as the friend and patron

> of their nation.

> 

> This company were a particular body, which called

> themselves of One Household. Of these there were six

> families, and they entered into an agreement to

> preserve the chain of alliance which should not be

> extinguished under any circumstance.

> 

> COMMENT:

> The "great horned serpent" here is a "kahastenes", a

> comet. That's the way that they spoke of them, and the

> tobacco is a late insertion from contemporary

> (colonial era) ritual practice.

> 

> Note the climate collapse by cometary dust load prior

> to the small impact remembered in this account.

> 

> GENERAL COMMENTS

> 

> Previously, I expressed my concern with the conundrum

> posed by the fact that the Lenape had survived what I

> had thought to be an impact mega-tsunami.

> 

> I think that we can now just understand what the

> Lenape  remembered as flooding from a very rapid melt,

> and the deposit which Hibben  observed as being simply

> the result of that flooding.

> 

> Going back over the other accounts, we find no mention

> of the deafness caused by extremely large impacts,

> aside from a mention of "thunder". Thus I think what

> we're looking at here is dust loading and multiple

> smaller impacts.

> 

> Note also the strange behavior of the mega-fauna and

> their predators which appears in the accounts. Death

> by starvation of the mega-fauna would have led their

> predators (the monsters) to new game: people.

> 

> Something happened to the North Pacific Current at the

> end of the last ice age, and a comet appeared at the

> same time.

> 

> As work on this continues we'll find out the specific

> mechanism for this change, and determine if it was

> impact or dust load related, or simply a co-incidence.

> 

> good hunting,

> E.P. Grondine

> Man and Impact in the Americas

> for a signed copy, contact me off list

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

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