From michael at spacerocksinc.com Mon Dec 1 00:09:41 2008 From: michael at spacerocksinc.com (Michael Johnson) Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 21:09:41 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December 1, 2008 Message-ID: <23882353.1539721228108181203.JavaMail.root@mbs4.homesteadmail.com> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/December_1_2008.html From bristolia at yahoo.com Mon Dec 1 09:19:54 2008 From: bristolia at yahoo.com (Paul) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 06:19:54 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] UPHEAVAL DOME: CONFIRMATION OF IMPACT ORIGIN Message-ID: <818938.39898.qm@web36208.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Stefan Brandes wrote: " a newly discovered Crater in Utah: http://lpod.wikispaces.com/November+29%2C+2008 " Look at: http://www.mail-archive.com/meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com/msg64615.html The paper discussing the shocked quartz is: Buchner, E., and T. Kenkmann, 2008, Upheaval Dome, Utah, USA: Impact origin confirmed. Geology. vol.36, no. 3, pp. 227-230. In part, this abstract stated: "In this study, we document, for the first time, shocked quartz grains from this crater in sandstones of the Jurassic Kayenta Formation. The investigated grains contain multiple sets of decorated planar deformation features. ... The shocked quartz grains were found in the periphery of the central uplift in the northeastern sector of the crater, which most likely represents the cross range crater sector." http://www.gsajournals.org/perlserv/?request=get-abstract&doi=10.1130%2FG24287A.1 and http://geology.geoscienceworld.org/cgi/content/full/36/3/227?ck=nck and there is : I. Upheaval Dome, Utah - Bibliography By Alpha and By Reverse Date by K. Fisher, November 25, 2008 at: http://members.csolutions.net/fisherka/astronote/observed/Upheaval/Bibliography.html III. Buchner, E., and T. Kenkmann, 2008, Upheaval Dome, Utah, USA: Impact Origin Confirmed. Large Meteorite Impacts and Planetary Evolution IV, held August 17-21, 2008 at Vredefort Dome, South Africa. LPI Contribution No. 1423, paper id. 3005. http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2008LPICo1423.3005B Some interesting related papers are: W. Alvarez, E. Staley, D. O'Connor, and M. A. Chan, 1999, Synsedimentary deformation in the Jurassic of southeastern Utah; a case of impact shaking? Geology. v. 26; no. 7, pp. 579-582. Abstract at: http://geology.geoscienceworld.org/cgi/content/abstract/26/7/579 http://www.gsajournals.org/perlserv/?request=get-abstract&doi=10.1130%2F0091-7613(1998)026%3C0579%3ASDITJO%3E2.3.CO%3B2 PDF file at: http://eps.berkeley.edu/~platetec/125.pdf Dan Bridges, L. W., W. Alvarez, E. Staley, D. O'Connor, and M. A. Chan, 1999, Synsedimentary deformation in the Jurassic of southeastern Utah; a case of impact shaking?; discussion and reply. Geology. v. 27, no. 7, pp. 661-662 http://www.gsajournals.org/perlserv/?request=get-abstract&doi=10.1130%2F0091-7613(1999)027%3C0661%3ASDITJO%3E2.3.CO%3B2 Yours, Paul H. From bristolia at yahoo.com Mon Dec 1 09:22:55 2008 From: bristolia at yahoo.com (Paul) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 06:22:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Free PDF File About Possible Impact Generated Seismites Message-ID: <63656.49600.qm@web36207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dear Friends, PDF files of a study of possible impact related seismite can be found online. It is: Simms, M. J., 2003, Uniquely extensive seismite from the latest Triassic of the United Kingdom: Evidence for bolide impact? Geology. v. 31, no. 6, p. 557-560. http://geology.geoscienceworld.org/cgi/content/abstract/31/6/557 PDF File at: http://www.habitas.org.uk/staff_pdf_files/Impact.pdf Yous, Paul H. From cynapse at charter.net Mon Dec 1 10:53:26 2008 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2008 10:53:26 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Better shot of the new Canadian main mass In-Reply-To: <2944.97758.qm@web30701.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <2944.97758.qm@web30701.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: http://www.newstalk650.com/story/20081201/9219 And since that shot didn't include the official spokes-model: http://www.physics.uwo.ca/research/spotlight/m-campbell-brown-students-may2008.html From dmerchan at rochester.rr.com Mon Dec 1 11:29:49 2008 From: dmerchan at rochester.rr.com (Don Merchant) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 11:29:49 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] EBay Server issues????? References: <000301c9535d$56756d50$6401a8c0@donaldmerchant> <00e701c9535e$e2e9e3a0$4564fea9@TITAN> Message-ID: <000301c953d2$07d75580$6401a8c0@donaldmerchant> Thanks List for your input on this. At least now I know it's not my imagination. One thing I did want to note and of which has just started happening, is that when I go to the EBay Site (not even logging on yet) my CA virus/spyware/website inspector security pops up with a red stop sign warning that this is a dangerous site!!!! This has NEVER happened. One of 2 things are going on....1. EBay's server is tracking your comp via cookies/cache or 2. hackers are tapping into the EBay Servers and thus following your comps where abouts via EBay. Please be careful, complain to EBay that it takes forever to load a page and change your password frequently. I know my meteorite search on EBay has been very very sour for the last 2 months because of this, so I hope something can be done soon. Be careful. Sincerely Don Merchant IMCA #0960 ----- Original Message ----- From: "John.L.Cabassi" To: Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 9:45 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] EBay Server issues????? > G'Day Don > You're not alone in this. Several months ago, I had problems, I even > vented to Mike Farmer in regards to issues and also to eBay, never got a > response back from ebay. Possibly because of the way I vented to them. At > the time, the problems I was having was that exactly at 17 seconds on a > bid, I would be bumped off the site and have to sign in again, but the > auction was over. I had a tech check it out and it was definitely a > problem with ebay. But I've also noticed over the last month pages are > also taking a long time to load up and worse yet, if you're bidding on > something, usually the first refresh takes 3 seconds. But as you keep > refreshing, the pages are taking up to 30 seconds. So as for bidding on > ebay, I've given up. It's a lost cause. > > Cheers > Johnno > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Don Merchant" > To: > Cc: "Don Merchant" > Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 6:34 PM > Subject: [meteorite-list] EBay Server issues????? > > >> Hi List. Has anybody noticed that when you are on EBay searching for >> anything including meteorites that the pages load up slower and slower >> the longer you are on EBay! I am so frustrated that I want to head butt a >> 15kg Iron Meteorite!! At first I thought it was my computer but I have 7 >> Comps.....3 PC's and 4 laptops and the same thing occurs! I then of >> course cleaned out my cache and temp files and STILL after a few minutes >> on EBay checking out the meteorite pages the pages slowly get longer and >> longer to load up and I MEAN LONG. Sometimes up to a minute or 2!! I have >> had a few friends say they too have noticed this with EBay on their >> comps. This has been going on now for several months! I have just >> complained to EBay that I feel they have server issues. Nevermind to tell >> me it's Xmas time and people are overloading EBay since I have noticed >> this long before Xmas time. My server is high speed internet so it is not >> my server. Now when I get off the EBay Site to any other Site runs fast >> as lightning. This is seriously ruining my search of items particularly >> meteorites on EBay. I want to vent out so bad but thought I would ask you >> my friends if anyone else notices this. >> Thank you and Happy Belated Thanksgiving. >> Sincerely >> Don Merchant >> IMCA #0960 >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Mon Dec 1 12:10:07 2008 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 11:10:07 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] EBay Server issues????? References: <000301c9535d$56756d50$6401a8c0@donaldmerchant><00e701c9535e$e2e9e3a0$4564fea9@TITAN> <000301c953d2$07d75580$6401a8c0@donaldmerchant> Message-ID: <046a01c953d7$a9e6a970$1143e146@ATARIENGINE> Don wrote: > One of 2 things are going on.... Can I add #3 to that List? That the malicious activity of which you complain originates not from eBay and its servers but from a malicious agent that has installed itself in ("infected") your computer and/or server. This is a far more likely explanation, sad to say. Sterling K. Webb ------------------------------------------------------------ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Merchant" To: "John.L.Cabassi" ; Cc: "Don Merchant" Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 10:29 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] EBay Server issues????? Thanks List for your input on this. At least now I know it's not my imagination. One thing I did want to note and of which has just started happening, is that when I go to the EBay Site (not even logging on yet) my CA virus/spyware/website inspector security pops up with a red stop sign warning that this is a dangerous site!!!! This has NEVER happened. One of 2 things are going on....1. EBay's server is tracking your comp via cookies/cache or 2. hackers are tapping into the EBay Servers and thus following your comps where abouts via EBay. Please be careful, complain to EBay that it takes forever to load a page and change your password frequently. I know my meteorite search on EBay has been very very sour for the last 2 months because of this, so I hope something can be done soon. Be careful. Sincerely Don Merchant IMCA #0960 ----- Original Message ----- From: "John.L.Cabassi" To: Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 9:45 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] EBay Server issues????? > G'Day Don > You're not alone in this. Several months ago, I had problems, I even > vented to Mike Farmer in regards to issues and also to eBay, never got a > response back from ebay. Possibly because of the way I vented to them. At > the time, the problems I was having was that exactly at 17 seconds on a > bid, I would be bumped off the site and have to sign in again, but the > auction was over. I had a tech check it out and it was definitely a > problem with ebay. But I've also noticed over the last month pages are > also taking a long time to load up and worse yet, if you're bidding on > something, usually the first refresh takes 3 seconds. But as you keep > refreshing, the pages are taking up to 30 seconds. So as for bidding on > ebay, I've given up. It's a lost cause. > > Cheers > Johnno > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Don Merchant" > To: > Cc: "Don Merchant" > Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 6:34 PM > Subject: [meteorite-list] EBay Server issues????? > > >> Hi List. Has anybody noticed that when you are on EBay searching for >> anything including meteorites that the pages load up slower and slower >> the longer you are on EBay! I am so frustrated that I want to head butt a >> 15kg Iron Meteorite!! At first I thought it was my computer but I have 7 >> Comps.....3 PC's and 4 laptops and the same thing occurs! I then of >> course cleaned out my cache and temp files and STILL after a few minutes >> on EBay checking out the meteorite pages the pages slowly get longer and >> longer to load up and I MEAN LONG. Sometimes up to a minute or 2!! I have >> had a few friends say they too have noticed this with EBay on their >> comps. This has been going on now for several months! I have just >> complained to EBay that I feel they have server issues. Nevermind to tell >> me it's Xmas time and people are overloading EBay since I have noticed >> this long before Xmas time. My server is high speed internet so it is not >> my server. Now when I get off the EBay Site to any other Site runs fast >> as lightning. This is seriously ruining my search of items particularly >> meteorites on EBay. I want to vent out so bad but thought I would ask you >> my friends if anyone else notices this. >> Thank you and Happy Belated Thanksgiving. >> Sincerely >> Don Merchant >> IMCA #0960 >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From dmerchan at rochester.rr.com Mon Dec 1 13:11:39 2008 From: dmerchan at rochester.rr.com (Don Merchant) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 13:11:39 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] EBay Server issues????? References: <000301c9535d$56756d50$6401a8c0@donaldmerchant><00e701c9535e$e2e9e3a0$4564fea9@TITAN> <000301c953d2$07d75580$6401a8c0@donaldmerchant> <046a01c953d7$a9e6a970$1143e146@ATARIENGINE> Message-ID: <000601c953e0$420eb690$6401a8c0@donaldmerchant> Hi Sterling and List. Very good point! This may be true with other members on the List and their comps. As far as my comp I have used a very decent anti-virus program/spam/Trojan ect protector. I have also (with my main security protection temporarily disabled) used 2 other program that seek, destroy, and quarantine any malicious type cookie followers, cache trackers and virus/Trojan files. My computer has come up totally clean. I hope others will take your thoughts on this seriously and check their comps as well. Thank you Sincerely Don Merchant IMCA #0960 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sterling K. Webb" To: "Don Merchant" ; "John.L.Cabassi" ; Cc: "Don Merchant" Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 12:10 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] EBay Server issues????? > Don wrote: >> One of 2 things are going on.... > > Can I add #3 to that List? That the malicious > activity of which you complain originates not > from eBay and its servers but from a malicious > agent that has installed itself in ("infected") your > computer and/or server. This is a far more likely > explanation, sad to say. > > > Sterling K. Webb > ------------------------------------------------------------ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Don Merchant" > To: "John.L.Cabassi" ; > > Cc: "Don Merchant" > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 10:29 AM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] EBay Server issues????? > > > Thanks List for your input on this. At least now I know it's not my > imagination. One thing I did want to note and of which has just started > happening, is that when I go to the EBay Site (not even logging on yet) my > CA virus/spyware/website inspector security pops up with a red stop sign > warning that this is a dangerous site!!!! This has NEVER happened. One of > 2 > things are going on....1. EBay's server is tracking your comp via > cookies/cache or 2. hackers are tapping into the EBay Servers and thus > following your comps where abouts via EBay. Please be careful, complain to > EBay that it takes forever to load a page and change your password > frequently. I know my meteorite search on EBay has been very very sour for > the last 2 months because of this, so I hope something can be done soon. > Be > careful. > Sincerely > Don Merchant > IMCA #0960 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John.L.Cabassi" > To: > Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 9:45 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] EBay Server issues????? > > >> G'Day Don >> You're not alone in this. Several months ago, I had problems, I even >> vented to Mike Farmer in regards to issues and also to eBay, never got a >> response back from ebay. Possibly because of the way I vented to them. >> At >> the time, the problems I was having was that exactly at 17 seconds on a >> bid, I would be bumped off the site and have to sign in again, but the >> auction was over. I had a tech check it out and it was definitely a >> problem with ebay. But I've also noticed over the last month pages are >> also taking a long time to load up and worse yet, if you're bidding on >> something, usually the first refresh takes 3 seconds. But as you keep >> refreshing, the pages are taking up to 30 seconds. So as for bidding on >> ebay, I've given up. It's a lost cause. >> >> Cheers >> Johnno >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Don Merchant" >> To: >> Cc: "Don Merchant" >> Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 6:34 PM >> Subject: [meteorite-list] EBay Server issues????? >> >> >>> Hi List. Has anybody noticed that when you are on EBay searching for >>> anything including meteorites that the pages load up slower and slower >>> the longer you are on EBay! I am so frustrated that I want to head butt >>> a >>> 15kg Iron Meteorite!! At first I thought it was my computer but I have 7 >>> Comps.....3 PC's and 4 laptops and the same thing occurs! I then of >>> course cleaned out my cache and temp files and STILL after a few minutes >>> on EBay checking out the meteorite pages the pages slowly get longer and >>> longer to load up and I MEAN LONG. Sometimes up to a minute or 2!! I >>> have >>> had a few friends say they too have noticed this with EBay on their >>> comps. This has been going on now for several months! I have just >>> complained to EBay that I feel they have server issues. Nevermind to >>> tell >>> me it's Xmas time and people are overloading EBay since I have noticed >>> this long before Xmas time. My server is high speed internet so it is >>> not >>> my server. Now when I get off the EBay Site to any other Site runs fast >>> as lightning. This is seriously ruining my search of items particularly >>> meteorites on EBay. I want to vent out so bad but thought I would ask >>> you >>> my friends if anyone else notices this. >>> Thank you and Happy Belated Thanksgiving. >>> Sincerely >>> Don Merchant >>> IMCA #0960 >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From ensoramanda at ntlworld.com Mon Dec 1 17:17:16 2008 From: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com (ensoramanda) Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2008 22:17:16 +0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] Marsden Canadian fall/first sedimentary meteorite?? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4934626C.5050708@ntlworld.com> Hi All, Looks like the Canadian meteorite might be the first sedimentary ever found eh!!!! :-) http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/My-pet-Rock-found-south-east-of-Lone-Rock-Saskatchewan_W0QQitemZ260324758120QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_2?hash=item260324758120&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1301%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318 Graham Ensor UK Rob Matson wrote: >Hi All, > >One aspect of this new Canadian fall amuses me in particular. In >the original report, we had quite a few "facts" about the bolide: > > > >>SASKATOON - A fireball that lit up the skies of Alberta and >>Saskatchewan last Thursday evening was a chunk of low-flying >>asteroid that weighed about 10 tonnes before it struck Earth's >>atmosphere, according to a University of Calgary investigation. >> >> > > > >>University of Calgary researcher Alan Hildebrand has outlined a >>region in western Saskatchewan where he expects to find desk-sized >>fragments of the space rock. >> >> > >Of course, these first two paragraphs are quite inconsistent with >each other -- a bolide that weighed only 10 tonnes *before* it hit >the atmosphere would be the size of a SINGLE desk. That's prior to >atmospheric ablation, which certainly would have reduced the mass >by 70-90%. How do you find "desk-sized fragments" on the ground >following ablation of a single desk-sized original object? > > > >>The fireball pierced the atmosphere at a steep angle of about >>60 degrees off the horizontal and lasted about five seconds. >> >> > >The steep entry angle suggests catastrophic break-up into many >pieces -- most of them small compared to the size of the original >meteoroid. Obviously not desk-sized or even television-sized. Mind >you, it's still an impressive fall. But I don't understand the >need for hyperbole. > >How quickly people forget that we had an asteroid of KNOWN size >(to within a factor of two) and orbit that entered over Sudan at >a lower initial velocity and a much shallower angle, and yet >"officials" poo-pooed that anything significant would reach the >ground. This asteroid was at least 40 tons and quite possibly >over 100 tons, had an orbit that intersected that of Mars >(suggesting a possible SNC), and impacted in a location that >would have been child's play to recover -- if it weren't for >the minor matter of its landing in a third-world, genocidal >disaster area of a country. > >I guess the point I'm trying to make is that the Sudan fall went >off the radar almost immediately, yet was a far more substantial >and scientifically important fall. But it seems not even meteorites >are immune from sectionalism. -Rob > >______________________________________________ >http://www.meteoritecentral.com >Meteorite-list mailing list >Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > >Internal Virus Database is out of date. >Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.10/1810 - Release Date: 24/11/2008 14:36 > > > From endophasy at yahoo.com Mon Dec 1 04:56:28 2008 From: endophasy at yahoo.com (Thaddeus Besedin) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 01:56:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] test Message-ID: <983901.53163.qm@web62505.mail.re1.yahoo.com> empty From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com Mon Dec 1 18:10:24 2008 From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 15:10:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Marsden Canadian fall/first sedimentary meteorite?? In-Reply-To: <4934626C.5050708@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <809835.27437.qm@web45613.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> It was only a matter of time for someone to try to pass off a fake meteorite from this fall. --- On Mon, 12/1/08, ensoramanda wrote: > From: ensoramanda > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Marsden Canadian fall/first sedimentary meteorite?? > To: > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Monday, December 1, 2008, 5:17 PM > Hi All, > > Looks like the Canadian meteorite might be the first > sedimentary ever > found eh!!!! :-) > > http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/My-pet-Rock-found-south-east-of-Lone-Rock-Saskatchewan_W0QQitemZ260324758120QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_2?hash=item260324758120&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1301%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318 > > Graham Ensor UK > > Rob Matson wrote: > > >Hi All, > > > >One aspect of this new Canadian fall amuses me in > particular. In > >the original report, we had quite a few > "facts" about the bolide: > > > > > > > >>SASKATOON - A fireball that lit up the skies of > Alberta and > >>Saskatchewan last Thursday evening was a chunk of > low-flying > >>asteroid that weighed about 10 tonnes before it > struck Earth's > >>atmosphere, according to a University of Calgary > investigation. > >> > >> > > > > > > > >>University of Calgary researcher Alan Hildebrand > has outlined a > >>region in western Saskatchewan where he expects to > find desk-sized > >>fragments of the space rock. > >> > >> > > > >Of course, these first two paragraphs are quite > inconsistent with > >each other -- a bolide that weighed only 10 tonnes > *before* it hit > >the atmosphere would be the size of a SINGLE desk. > That's prior to > >atmospheric ablation, which certainly would have > reduced the mass > >by 70-90%. How do you find "desk-sized > fragments" on the ground > >following ablation of a single desk-sized original > object? > > > > > > > >>The fireball pierced the atmosphere at a steep > angle of about > >>60 degrees off the horizontal and lasted about five > seconds. > >> > >> > > > >The steep entry angle suggests catastrophic break-up > into many > >pieces -- most of them small compared to the size of > the original > >meteoroid. Obviously not desk-sized or even > television-sized. Mind > >you, it's still an impressive fall. But I don't > understand the > >need for hyperbole. > > > >How quickly people forget that we had an asteroid of > KNOWN size > >(to within a factor of two) and orbit that entered over > Sudan at > >a lower initial velocity and a much shallower angle, > and yet > >"officials" poo-pooed that anything > significant would reach the > >ground. This asteroid was at least 40 tons and quite > possibly > >over 100 tons, had an orbit that intersected that of > Mars > >(suggesting a possible SNC), and impacted in a location > that > >would have been child's play to recover -- if it > weren't for > >the minor matter of its landing in a third-world, > genocidal > >disaster area of a country. > > > >I guess the point I'm trying to make is that the > Sudan fall went > >off the radar almost immediately, yet was a far more > substantial > >and scientifically important fall. But it seems not > even meteorites > >are immune from sectionalism. -Rob > > > >______________________________________________ > >http://www.meteoritecentral.com > >Meteorite-list mailing list > >Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > >Internal Virus Database is out of date. > >Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > >Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.10/1810 - > Release Date: 24/11/2008 14:36 > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From gmhupe at htn.net Mon Dec 1 18:35:28 2008 From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 18:35:28 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] NEW Olivine Diogenite - NWA 4223 - AD Message-ID: <0039639DFF0445B3B9BFFD57B4572462@Gregor> Dear List Members, It is my pleasure to announce a NEW Olivine Diogenite, NWA 4223, the third member of this exclusive group. It took me three years to get to this point of first public offering so you know the science has been done! It has a TKW of just 329 grams and is very course-grained. I managed through eBay's site, so you can find all of the available material and "Official" classification of NWA 4223 with the "Buy it Now" feature here: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault In addition to these rare specimens, I have also listed these, most at reduced prices for the holidays: NWA 1878 Mesosiderite (Fantastic etch!) NWA 1879 Mesosiderite NWA 2932 Mesosiderite NWA 869 L4-6 1kg Lot NWA 3118 CV3 100g Lot NWA 3151 Brachinite Thin Section NWA 4528 H5 500g Lot Unclassified 2kg Lot Chergach Individual 92.1g (99% crusted) Chergach Individual 64.1g (100% crusted) Gao Individual 154g (from Haag Collection) Glorieta Pallasite Individual 13.7g Muonionalusta End Cut 76.9g (starts at just 99 cents) Thank you for checking out what I have to offer, I appreciate it! Best regards, Greg ==================== Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmhupe at htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 ==================== Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault From STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com Mon Dec 1 19:23:31 2008 From: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com (STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 19:23:31 EST Subject: [meteorite-list] NEW Olivine Diogenite - NWA 4223 - AD Message-ID: Hi list members, For those who are interested in thin sections. Greg has been kind enough to (previously) lend me the NWA 3151 Brachinite that he has for sale. My micrograph article in Meteorite Times December is on this thin section. I felt obliged to say it is a wonderful sample prepared splendidly! I worked with it up to a magnification of 760X with great results. If you are thinking of adding a thin to your collection, I would recommend this one and check out the article. Bernd Pauli has provided me with three excellent wide field cross polarized light micrographs that are also included. Tom Phillips In a message dated 12/1/2008 4:36:02 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, gmhupe at htn.net writes: Dear List Members, It is my pleasure to announce a NEW Olivine Diogenite, NWA 4223, the third member of this exclusive group. It took me three years to get to this point of first public offering so you know the science has been done! It has a TKW of just 329 grams and is very course-grained. I managed through eBay's site, so you can find all of the available material and "Official" classification of NWA 4223 with the "Buy it Now" feature here: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault In addition to these rare specimens, I have also listed these, most at reduced prices for the holidays: NWA 1878 Mesosiderite (Fantastic etch!) NWA 1879 Mesosiderite NWA 2932 Mesosiderite NWA 869 L4-6 1kg Lot NWA 3118 CV3 100g Lot NWA 3151 Brachinite Thin Section NWA 4528 H5 500g Lot Unclassified 2kg Lot Chergach Individual 92.1g (99% crusted) Chergach Individual 64.1g (100% crusted) Gao Individual 154g (from Haag Collection) Glorieta Pallasite Individual 13.7g Muonionalusta End Cut 76.9g (starts at just 99 cents) Thank you for checking out what I have to offer, I appreciate it! Best regards, Greg ==================== Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmhupe at htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 ==================== Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002) From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Mon Dec 1 19:33:09 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 16:33:09 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars Exploration Rovers Update - November 13-20, 2008 Message-ID: <200812020033.QAA05234@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/mission/status.html#spirit SPIRIT UPDATE: Serious but Stable - sol 1730-1736, November 14 - November 20, 2008: Spirit's condition has improved during the past week, though skies remain fairly dusty after the recent Martian dust storm. Since sol 1730 (Nov. 14, 2008), solar-array energy has averaged 169 watt-hours (100 watt-hours is the amount of energy needed to light a 100-watt bulb for 1 hour). The latest measurement of atmospheric darkness caused by dust, known as Tau, is 0.858. The dust factor, representing the portion of sunlight penetrating the coating of dust on the solar panels, is 0.2912. Spirit performed a cursory check of the health of the miniature thermal emission spectrometer. After three nights with the spectrometer's heaters disabled, the instrument appeared to be undamaged as of sol 1730. Power is not yet sufficient to re-enable those heaters, though Spirit will continue to monitor the spectrometer while waiting for power to improve. For the most part, Spirit is limiting activities to those necessary for maintaining engineering health and safety. Spirit endured another challenge when new commands from Earth for sol 1734 (Nov. 18, 2008) did not arrive. At that point, Spirit began to execute a backup set of activities known as a runout plan. On Earth, engineers created a new sequence of commands for sol 1736 (Nov. 20, 2008) to manage communications and preserve power. Meanwhile, they are investigating why Spirit did not receive their previous commands. According to the latest Martian weather report for Nov. 15 (sol 1731), skies are expected to continue to clear during the next couple of weeks. No other storms have been identified within a couple of thousand kilometers of Spirit's location. Spirit is preparing for solar conjunction, where the Sun is between Earth and Mars, preventing communications. This period begins Nov. 29th. Before and during solar conjunction, Spirit's activities will remain conservative as the rover waits for the skies to clear and for the power situation to improve. Sol-by-sol summary In addition to measuring dust-related changes in atmospheric opacity with the panoramic camera, Spirit completed the following activities: Sol 1730 (Nov. 14, 2008): Spirit observed the sky briefly with the miniature thermal emission spectrometer. Sol 1731: Spirit rested and soaked up the Sun's rays to recharge the batteries. Sol 1732: Spirit rested and soaked up the Sun's rays to recharge the batteries. Sol 1733: Spirit rested and soaked up the Sun's rays to recharge the batteries. Sol 1734: Spirit completed basic activities in the runout plan. Sol 1735: Spirit completed basic activities in the runout plan. Sol 1736 (Nov. 20, 2008): Spirit completed basic activities in the runout plan. Odometry: As of sol 1736 (Nov. 20, 2008), Spirits total odometry was 7,529.02 meters (4.68 miles). ------------------------------------------------------------------------ OPPORTUNITY UPDATE: Opportunity Prepares for Two Weeks of Independent Study - sol 1709-1715, November 13-19, 2008: Opportunity is getting ready for solar conjunction, the time when the Sun is in the line of sight between Earth and Mars. During this two-week period, from Nov. 30, 2008 to Dec. 13, 2008, the mission team will not send new commands to the rover. The science team plans to position Opportunity on a rock outcrop, possibly near a cobble the rover can study with the Moessbauer spectrometer, during this time interval. Opportunity began the week with a 93-meter (310-foot) drive on Sol 1709 (Nov. 13, 2008). The drive allowed the rover to reach a large expanse of bare outcrop. Another drive on Sol 1710 (Nov. 14, 2008), covering 17 meters (56 feet), placed the rover near potential targets of scientific interest. A candidate target, a cobble about 8 meters (30 feet) away, became the objective of the drive on Sol 1713 (Nov. 17, 2008). The 8-meter drive positioned the cobble, now nicknamed "Santorini", within the work volume of the science instruments on Opportunity's robotic arm. The challenge for the team was the placement of the science instruments on Santorini using only 4 degrees of freedom of the robotic arm instead of the usual 6. The rover is not able to change the azimuth of the shoulder joint, that is, move it from side to side, because the shoulder azimuth joint (Joint 1) is disabled due to degraded performance. On Sol 1714 (Nov. 18, 2008), Opportunity successfully placed the Moessbauer spectrometer on a faceted surface of the cobble. The contact switches on the instrument confirmed that the spectrometer had touched the surface. An analysis by the spectrometer is now under way. Rover operators plan to have Opportunity integrate Moessbauer measurements of Santorini for the two-week period of solar conjunction. Opportunity is acquiring a panorama of images using multiple filters of the panoramic camera and making daily observations of atmospheric dust as well as measuring atmospheric argon using the alpha-particle X-ray spectrometer APXS. The rover is creating occasional, time-lapse movies of clouds with the navigation camera. This coming weekend, engineers plan another attempt to remove dust from the miniature thermal emission spectrometer mirror by shaking it. As of Sol 1715 (Nov. 29, 2008), the solar array energy was 565 watt-hours (100 watt-hours is the amount of energy needed to light a 100-watt bulb for one hour). The atmospheric opacity (tau) was 0.747 and the dust factor (a measure of sunlight-blocking dust on the solar arrays) was 0.694. Sol-by-sol summary In addition to measuring dust-related changes in atmospheric clarity with the panoramic camera and relaying data from Mars to NASA's Odyssey orbiter for transmission to Earth, Opportunity completed the following activities: Sol 1709 (Nov. 13, 2008): Opportunity drove 93 meters (300 feet) toward outcrop, made atmospheric observations with the panoramic camera, acquired targeted images with the panoramic and navigation cameras, and measured argon gas in the atmosphere with the alpha-particle X-ray spectrometer. Sol 1710: Opportunity drove 17 meters (56 feet) on outcrop, made atmospheric observations with the panoramic camera, acquired targeted images with the panoramic and navigation cameras, and measured argon gas in the atmosphere with the alpha-particle X-ray spectrometer. Sol 1711: Opportunity completed atmospheric observations with the panoramic camera, acquired targeted images with the panoramic camera, and measured atmospheric argon with the alpha-particle X-ray spectrometer. Sol 1712: Opportunity completed atmospheric observations with the panoramic camera, measured atmospheric argon with the alpha-particle X-ray spectrometer, and acquired navigation-camera images for a time-lapse movie in search of clouds. Sol 1713: Opportunity drove 8 meters (30 feet) toward Santorini, made atmospheric observations with the panoramic camera, and acquired navigation-camera images for a time-lapse movie in search of clouds. Sol 1714: Opportunity placed the Moessbauer spectrometer on Santorini, integrated measurements of the cobble with the spectrometer, and acquired targeted images and studied the atmosphere with the panoramic camera. Sol 1715 (Nov. 19, 2008): Opportunity continued the integration of data from Santorini with the alpha-particle X-ray spectrometer, acquired panoramic-camera images of multiple targets, and used the camera to make atmospheric observations. Odometry As of sol 1715 (Nov. 19, 2008), Opportunity's total odometry was 13,616.47 meters (8.46 miles). From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Mon Dec 1 19:35:53 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 16:35:53 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Dawn Journal - November 26, 2008 Message-ID: <200812020035.QAA06094@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://dawn.jpl.nasa.gov/mission/journal_11_26_08.asp Dawn Journal Dr. Marc Rayman November 26, 2008 Dear Indawnviduals, The Dawn spacecraft is healthy and on course for its flyby of Mars early next year. The planet's gravity will help boost the probe on its way to rendezvous with Vesta. While the spacecraft has its sights set on the asteroid belt (via Mars), its path is now bringing it closer to Earth. Meanwhile, from Earth's perspective, Dawn appears to be approaching a blindingly close encounter with the Sun. With so much happening in the solar system, all readers, whether local or not, are invited to turn their attention here. In the last log, we saw that Dawn was nearing the end of an extended period of thrusting with is ion propulsion system that began on December 17, 2007. When it left Earth on September 27, 2007, the Delta II rocket deposited the spacecraft into a carefully chosen orbit around the Sun. By October 31, 2008, the spacecraft had completed the thrusting it needed to change that orbit so it would encounter Mars at just the right time, location, and angle to sling it on its way to Vesta. During this interplanetary cruise phase, Dawn thrust for 270 days, or 85% of the time. Expending less than 72 kilograms (158 pounds) of xenon propellant, the spacecraft changed its speed by about 1.81 kilometers per second (4050 miles per hour). Although controlling an interplanetary probe across hundreds of millions of kilometers (or miles) of deep space and guiding it accurately enough to reach its remote destination seems as if it should be a very simple task, readers may be surprised to know that it is not. Let's consider just one aspect of the problem. Suppose you want to shoot an arrow at a target. Unlike typical archers, you are so far from the target that you can only barely see it. In that case, aiming for the bull's-eye is essentially out of the question. Adding to the problem may be a variable breeze that could nudge the arrow off course. Shooting sufficiently accurately to get the arrow even to the vicinity of the target would be challenging enough; hitting the precise point you want on the target is just too difficult. For readers who are principally interested in archery, this concludes our in-depth analysis of the sport. Now let's consider how to change the situation to make it more similar to an interplanetary mission. If the arrow had a tiny radio locator mounted on it, you would be able monitor its progress as it flew closer to the target. This would be like watching it on a radar screen. You might see your arrow miss the target entirely or, if you had made a particularly good shot, hit somewhere on it. Now if you could occasionally send a signal to the arrow, perhaps to change the angles of the feathers, you might not be able to alter its course drastically, but you could change it a little. So if your initial shot had been good enough, you could guide the arrow to the desired destination. (To buy your radio controlled archery set, visit the Dawn gift shop on your planet. The set may be found between the display case with xenon ion beam jewelry and the shelves and shelves and shelves and shelves of really cool new Dawn Journal reader action figures -- be sure to buy the one that looks just like you!) Shooting the arrow is akin to launching a spacecraft, and its flight to the target represents the interplanetary journey, although operating a spacecraft involves far greater precision (and fun!). Our knowledge of where the spacecraft is and where it is heading is amazingly, fantastically, incredibly accurate, but it is not perfect. This point is essential. Keeping most spacecraft on course is a matter of frequently recalculating the position, speed, and direction of travel and then occasionally fine-tuning the trajectory through burns of the propulsion system. Dawn's near-constant use of its advanced ion propulsion system for most of 2008 changes the story, but only a little. The thrust plan was calculated before launch and then updated once our arrow was free of the bow. Throughout the interplanetary cruise phase, a new thrust plan was transmitted to the spacecraft about every 5 weeks, each time with slight updates to account for the latest calculations of Dawn's orbit around the Sun. With this method, the small adjustments to the trajectory have been incorporated into the large, preplanned changes. The mission control team requires about 5 weeks to design, develop, check, double-check, transmit, and activate a 5-week set of commands. By the time the spacecraft is executing the final part of those instructions, it is following a flight plan that is based on information from 10 weeks earlier. During most of the mission, when there are months or even years of thrusting ahead of it, subsequent opportunities to adjust the trajectory are plentiful. In contrast, for the last period of preplanned thrusting before Mars, controllers modified their normal process for formulating the commands, making a fast update for the final few days of thrusting. By including the latest navigational data in the computations for the direction and duration of the concluding segment of powered flight, the mission control team put Dawn on a more accurate course for Mars than it otherwise would have been. Even with this strategy, navigators recognized long ago that subsequent adjustments would be required. The plan for approaching Mars has always included windows for trajectory correction maneuvers (which engineers are physiologically incapable of calling anything other than TCMs). Dawn's first TCM occurred on November 20. As navigators refined their trajectory calculations after thrusting finished on October 31, they determined that the spacecraft was quite close to the aim point they wanted, but still not exactly on target. In fact, rather than being on a course to sail a few hundred kilometers above Mars, the probe's path would have taken it to the surface of the planet. Despite the power of the ion propulsion system, Dawn does not have the capability to bore through the rocky planet and continue on its way to Vesta. Such a situation is not surprising. Suppose in the archery, the bull's-eye were 30 centimeters (1 foot) in diameter, but we preferred to hit a point 2.2 centimeters (7/8 inch) outside the bull's-eye, near the 11:00 position (corresponding to where we want Dawn to fly past Mars). As our arrow approached the target, it might turn out that it was going to miss the target entirely, it might be headed for some other point on the target, and it just might be that it was headed for the bull's-eye itself. Dawn's case was this last one, so TCM1 put it on track for the destination we desired. Amazing sports analogies for the fantastic accuracy of interplanetary navigation usually fail to account for TCMs, as most arrows, balls, and other projectiles do not include active control after they are on their way. Your correspondent has presented his own simile for the astonishing accuracy with which a spacecraft can reach a faraway destination, but most such analogies neglect TCMs, without which deep-space missions could not be accomplished. (Note that the accuracy is impressive with or without TCMs. We shall extend our archery example in a future log, making it more quantitative. It will be important, however, to keep in mind that the ion propulsion system provides so much maneuvering flexibility that Dawn does not need to achieve the degree of accuracy in its gravity assist that a mission using conventional chemical propulsion might.) For reasons we will not divulge, Dawn's first TCM has been designated TCM1. On November 20, just as it had for all of its previous thrusting, the spacecraft pointed a thruster (TCM1 used thruster #1) in the required direction and resumed emitting the familiar blue-green beam of xenon ions to alter course. While typical thrusting during the mission has lasted for almost 7 days at a time (followed by a hiatus of 7 to 8 hours), in this case only a short burn was necessary. Propelling itself from about 4:31 pm to 6:42 pm PST was just enough to fine-tune its course and change its speed by a bit more than 60 centimeters per second (1.3 miles per hour). This adjustment was modest indeed, as at that time Dawn was traveling around the Sun at more than 22.5 kilometers per second (50,400 miles per hour). Dawn and Mars, following their separate orbits that will (almost!) intersect on February 17, 2009, were moving relative to each other at 3.17 kilometers per second (7100 miles per hour). Dawn's second TCM window (inexplicably named TCM2) is in January. Traveling two-thirds of the way from here to Mars, the navigational accuracy then will be still better, with smaller deviations from the planned target point being detectable, so another refinement in the trajectory then is likely. In the meantime, Dawn will follow its orbital path with its ion thrusters idle. As Dawn travels through space on its own, its path has been essentially independent of Earth's. We saw in a previous log that the weaker grasp exerted by the Sun at Dawn's greater distance means that it travels more slowly around the solar system. While Earth has completed more than 1 full revolution (each revolution requiring 1 year) since launch, Dawn has not yet rounded the Sun once. After receding from the Sun until early August, the spacecraft began falling back, albeit only temporarily. The probe attained its maximum distance from Earth on November 10. (For anyone who was on Earth on that date and plans to use this information in an alibi, it may be helpful to know that the greatest range was reached at about 3:07 am PST.) The spacecraft was more than 384 million kilometers (239 million miles) from its one-time home. Although it will make substantial progress on its journey in the meantime, Dawn's distance to Earth will continue to decrease until January 2010, when it will be less than one-third of what it is today. In the summer of that year, however, as Earth maintains its repetitive annual orbital motion and the explorer climbs away from the Sun, it will surpass this month's distance to Earth. (Readers are encouraged to memorize the contents of this log for reference in 2010 in case we fail to include a link to this paragraph.) The complex choreography of the solar system's grand orbital dance rarely calls for a circular orbit; rather, the dancers follow ellipses (ovals in which the ends are of equal size) around the Sun. Thanks to the details of the shapes of their orbits, the greatest separation between Earth and Dawn did not occur when they were precisely on opposite sides of the Sun, although the alignment was close to that. On December 12, their dance steps will take them to points almost exactly on opposite sides of the Sun. For observers on Earth, this is known as solar conjunction, because the spacecraft and the Sun will appear to be in the same location. (Similarly, from Dawn's point of view, Earth and the Sun will be almost coincident.) In reality, of course, Dawn will be much farther away than Earth's star. It will be 147 million kilometers (91.5 million miles) from Earth to the Sun but 379 million kilometers (236 million miles) from the planet to its cosmic envoy. Its apparent proximity to the Sun presents a helpful opportunity for terrestrial readers to locate Dawn in the sky. On December 9 - 15, the spacecraft will be less than 1 degree from the Sun, progressing from east to west and passing just 1/3 degree south of that brilliant celestial landmark on December 12. (As Dawn does not orbit in the same plane as Earth, it will not pass directly behind the Sun.) The Sun itself is 1/2 degree across, so this is close indeed; the spacecraft will sneak in to less than 1 solar diameter from the disk. To demonstrate how small the separation is, if you blocked the Sun with your thumb at arm's length during this week around conjunction (and you are exhorted to do so), you also would cover Dawn. For those interested observers who lack the requisite superhuman visual acuity to discern the remote spacecraft amidst the dazzling light of the Sun, conjunction still may provide a convenient occasion to reflect upon this most recent of humankind's missions far into the solar system. This small probe is the product of creatures fortunate enough to be able to combine their powerful curiosity about the workings of the cosmos with their impressive abilities to explore, investigate, and ultimately understand. While its builders remain in the vicinity of the planet upon which they evolved, their robotic ambassador now is passing on the far side of the extraordinarily distant Sun. This is the same Sun that has been the unchallenged master of our solar system for 4.5 billion years. This is the same Sun that has shone down on Earth throughout that time and has been the ultimate source of so much of the heat, light, and other energy upon which the planet's inhabitants have been so dependent. This is the same Sun that has so influenced human expression in art, literature, and religion for uncounted millennia. This is the same Sun that has motivated scientific studies for centuries. This is the same Sun that acts as our signpost in the Milky Way galaxy. And humans have a spacecraft on the far side of it. We may be humbled by our own insignificance in the universe, yet we still undertake the most valiant adventures in our attempts to comprehend its majesty. Solar conjunction means even more to Dawn mission controllers than the opportunity to meditate upon what magnificent feats our species can achieve. As Earth, the Sun, and the spacecraft come closer into alignment, radio signals that go back and forth must pass near the Sun. The solar environment is fierce indeed, and it causes interference in those radio waves. While some signals will get through, communications will be less reliable. Therefore, controllers plan to send no messages to the spacecraft from December 5 through December 18; all instructions needed during that time will be stored onboard beforehand. Deep Space Network antennas, pointing near the Sun, will listen through the roaring noise for the faint whisper of the spacecraft, but the team will consider any signals to be a bonus. There is plenty of other work to do while waiting to resume communications after conjunction. In addition to preparing for the visit to Mars, engineers will continue to interpret the results of election day. On November 4, the Dawn team voted unanimously for more power. They commanded the spacecraft to execute a set of steps to yield data that will reveal the full potential of the enormous solar arrays to generate electrical power. The method was tested first on July 21, and then refined for a test on September 22. For this month's measurement, the commands were identical to those used for the second test with one exception that had been planned from the beginning: the solar arrays were rotated to point 60 degrees away from the Sun instead of 45 degrees. The solar arrays are so powerful that when they are pointed directly at the Sun, the spacecraft could not draw enough power to measure their full capability. The data collected show the electrical behavior of the arrays as the ion propulsion system was commanded through its start-up, drawing more and more power. Unlike the two tests, this calibration was designed so that with the arrays pointed so far from the Sun, they would not be able to provide as much power as was requested. Engineers wanted to find the point at which the arrays would no longer be able to satisfy the demands. They were not disappointed; power climbed up and up until no more was available. The prospect of having a spacecraft not be able to meet its own power demands may seem risky, but the procedure was carefully designed, analyzed, and simulated, and it executed perfectly. When the ion propulsion system asked for more power than the arrays could deliver, in the language of the trade, the solar arrays "collapsed." Now to some (including even some engineers unfamiliar with the terminology), this suggests something not entirely desirable, such as 2 bent and twisted wings, each with 5 warped panels, and 11,480 shattered solar cells, the fragments sparkling in the sunlight as they tumbled and floated away from the powerless probe. In this case though, "collapse" is an electrical, not a mechanical, phenomenon and hence would be somewhat less visually spectacular and quite reversible -- a key attribute for a mission with well over 6 years of space exploration ahead of it. Once all the data are analyzed, controllers will have a better prediction for how much power the arrays will be able to generate for the rest of the voyage. Dawn is 20 million kilometers (12 million miles) from Mars. It is 383 million kilometers (238 million miles) from Earth, or 950 times as far as the moon and 2.59 times as far as the Sun. Radio signals, traveling at the universal limit of the speed of light, take 43 minutes to make the round trip. From drtanuki at yahoo.com Mon Dec 1 19:38:11 2008 From: drtanuki at yahoo.com (drtanuki) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 16:38:11 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] NEW Olivine Diogenite - NWA 4223 - AD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <154443.86932.qm@web53211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hello Tom and List, I would suggest that you check out the fantastic NWA 5471 brachinite that Martin and Stefan are selling for a VERY REASONABLE price; more than 2 grams of the material instead of a thin section (you can make your own thin sections- several). Thank you Martin and Stefan for your very generous price for such a rare classification. Dirk Ross...Tokyo http://www.meteoritesjapan.com http://www.insekijapan.com --- On Tue, 12/2/08, STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com wrote: > From: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NEW Olivine Diogenite - NWA 4223 - AD > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Tuesday, December 2, 2008, 9:23 AM > Hi list members, For those who are interested in thin > sections. Greg has > been kind enough to (previously) lend me the NWA 3151 > Brachinite that he has > for sale. My micrograph article in Meteorite Times > December is on this thin > section. > > I felt obliged to say it is a wonderful sample prepared > splendidly! I > worked with it up to a magnification of 760X with great > results. If you are > thinking of adding a thin to your collection, I would > recommend this one and check > out the article. Bernd Pauli has provided me with three > excellent wide > field cross polarized light micrographs that are also > included. > > Tom Phillips > > In a message dated 12/1/2008 4:36:02 P.M. Mountain > Standard Time, > gmhupe at htn.net writes: > Dear List Members, > > It is my pleasure to announce a NEW Olivine Diogenite, NWA > 4223, the third > member of this exclusive group. It took me three years to > get to this point > of first public offering so you know the science has been > done! It has a TKW > of just 329 grams and is very course-grained. I managed > through eBay's site, > so you can find all of the available material and > "Official" classification > of NWA 4223 with the "Buy it Now" feature here: > > http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault > > In addition to these rare specimens, I have also listed > these, most at > reduced prices for the holidays: > NWA 1878 Mesosiderite (Fantastic etch!) > NWA 1879 Mesosiderite > NWA 2932 Mesosiderite > NWA 869 L4-6 1kg Lot > NWA 3118 CV3 100g Lot > NWA 3151 Brachinite Thin Section > NWA 4528 H5 500g Lot > Unclassified 2kg Lot > Chergach Individual 92.1g (99% crusted) > Chergach Individual 64.1g (100% crusted) > Gao Individual 154g (from Haag Collection) > Glorieta Pallasite Individual 13.7g > Muonionalusta End Cut 76.9g (starts at just 99 cents) > > Thank you for checking out what I have to offer, I > appreciate it! > > Best regards, > Greg > > ==================== > Greg Hupe > The Hupe Collection > NaturesVault (eBay) > gmhupe at htn.net > www.LunarRock.com > IMCA 3163 > ==================== > Click here for my current eBay auctions: > http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > **************Life should be easier. So should your > homepage. Try the NEW > AOL.com. > (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From bobadebt at ec.rr.com Mon Dec 1 19:48:37 2008 From: bobadebt at ec.rr.com (David & Kitt Deyarmin) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 19:48:37 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] 25% - 35% of any Ebay Buy-it-Now auction Message-ID: <5074F0D4C7F3478099DFEFDD0731A127@David> This is not the easiest progream to use, it may take up to 60 days to get your money back but it's 25% - 35% off... Up to $200 an item and $2500 per person!!! Iit's only for USA customers that end Buy-it-Now items and you have to pay with PayPal I have already saved $119 on 2 items Details can be found here http://pages.ebay.com/cashbackoffer/terms.html Basically it goes like this... You need to got to www.live.com Do a search, I just did one for 'xbox' it really doesn't matter what you search for... Now look at the search results (up by the top in the sponsored links section) should be a link to Ebay... Click that link Now log into Ebay Now at the top of your Ebay screen there should be a green "Microsoft Cashback" logo with a red percent off banner on the right side Now do a search for ANYTHING you want it's doesn't have to be M$ related, click on the buy it now auctions and find one you like... Again you can search Ebay for anything at this point once you active the M$ session... To test availability you need to click the BIN button like you are purchasing it , now if there are more then one available it should take you to the next page where you choose the quantity the Microsoft Cashback logo should be on this screen as well under the quantity, click continue (notice it says you will confirm the purchase on the next page under the continue button) on the next page it will show you your cashback amount and you can purchase or exit out... Pay attention if there is only one of the items available there there is NO continue page just the commit to buy, don't click that unless you are ready to purchase! In either case verify the logo is on the purchase page to make sure it works on that auction... Be sure to follow the next steps after the purchase you need to setup an MS account and sorts or use your existing MS account so you get credited... Paypal is supposed to refund you the cash right back into your Paypal account within 60 days... After your purchase if you want to use the coupon again, you need to go back to step one to activate a new MS Cashback session for additional savings... You can do this 12 times! From gmhupe at htn.net Mon Dec 1 20:18:27 2008 From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 20:18:27 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Brachinites & NWA 4882 References: <154443.86932.qm@web53211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hello Dirk and List, Dirk, since you would like to promote brachinite material, here is a little insight you may not be aware of: NWA 4882 Brachinite (unpaired) - I have made private sales several months PRIOR to Martin's public offering, at much less than their great price per gram. I know MY customers are very happy with their greatly discounted rate! I simply do not have time to offer all of the different and new meteorites I have at one time publicly, AND I am not trying to interfer with their sales, but since Dirk brought this out in what I perceive in a negative tone, here is one heck of a Brachinite for serious collections: Click here to view complete slice of NWA 4882 measuring 130mm wide! http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa4882/nwa4882slice.jpg Click here to view complete NWA 4882 stone before cutting: http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa4882/nwa4882.jpg Click here to view close-up of polished NWA 4882 matrix: http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa4882/nwa4882closeup.jpg Official Classification: Northwest Africa 4882 Algeria Find: July 2007 Achondrite (brachinite) History: Purchased by Greg Hup? in July 2007 from a dealer in Tagounite, Morocco. Physical characteristics: Two dense, dark brown, broken rounded stones (2891 g and 206 g) with weathered fusion crust on some original exterior surfaces and thin desert varnish coatings on hackly broken surfaces. Petrography: (A. Irving and S. Kuehner, UWS) Coarse-grained rock (mostly 0.2-0.8 mm) with protogranular texture, composed predominantly of olivine with subordinate green, Cr-bearing diopside, K-poor plagioclase, chromite, iron sulfide, and kamacite (partially altered to iron hydroxides). Plagioclase is interstitial to mafic silicates and is heterogeneous in distribution. Very fine-grained (2-10 ?m), polyphase assemblages composed mostly of orthopyroxene, Ni-bearing pyrrhotite and Ni-free metal with variable amounts of fayalite and chromite occur around larger pyrrhotite grains within olivine, and also as small, isolated apparent inclusions within olivine. Geochemistry: Olivine (Fa35.0-35.2, FeO/MnO = 70.9-71.3), clinopyroxene (Fs9.3Wo47.1, FeO/MnO = 38.6, Cr2O3 = 0.76wt%, Al2O3 = 1.05 wt%), plagioclase (An32.1- 37.6Or0.3-0.5), chromite [Cr/(Cr + Al) = 0.717, Mg/(Mg + Fe) = 0.239, TiO2 = 0.71 wt%, ZnO = 0.30 wt%]. Oxygen isotopes: (D. Rumble, CIW) Replicate analyses of acid-washed silicate material by laser fluorination gave, respectively, ?18O = 2.064, 2.095; ?17O = 4.368, 4.455; ?17O = -0.234, -0.248 per mil. Classification: Achondrite (brachinite). Specimens: A total of 20.4 g of sample and one polished thin section are on deposit at UWS. GHup? holds the main mass (actually now in a private collection). I sent this to a professional cutter who used a wire saw and cut these at 3mm thick and polished to a high luster. If you want a large museum quality specimen at an even BETTER rate, be sure to contact me off list. I have already placed over half of this material into large collections, which only leaves 15 slices and the 206g fragment. Half are the larger slices like the one featured above. Best regards, Greg ==================== Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmhupe at htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 ==================== Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault ----- Original Message ----- From: "drtanuki" To: ; Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 7:38 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NEW Olivine Diogenite - NWA 4223 - AD > Hello Tom and List, > I would suggest that you check out the fantastic NWA 5471 brachinite that > Martin and Stefan are selling for a VERY REASONABLE price; more than 2 > grams of the material instead of a thin section (you can make your own > thin sections- several). > > Thank you Martin and Stefan for your very generous price for such a rare > classification. > > Dirk Ross...Tokyo > http://www.meteoritesjapan.com > http://www.insekijapan.com > > > > --- On Tue, 12/2/08, STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com > wrote: > >> From: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NEW Olivine Diogenite - NWA 4223 - AD >> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> Date: Tuesday, December 2, 2008, 9:23 AM >> Hi list members, For those who are interested in thin >> sections. Greg has >> been kind enough to (previously) lend me the NWA 3151 >> Brachinite that he has >> for sale. My micrograph article in Meteorite Times >> December is on this thin >> section. >> >> I felt obliged to say it is a wonderful sample prepared >> splendidly! I >> worked with it up to a magnification of 760X with great >> results. If you are >> thinking of adding a thin to your collection, I would >> recommend this one and check >> out the article. Bernd Pauli has provided me with three >> excellent wide >> field cross polarized light micrographs that are also >> included. >> >> Tom Phillips >> >> In a message dated 12/1/2008 4:36:02 P.M. Mountain >> Standard Time, >> gmhupe at htn.net writes: >> Dear List Members, >> >> It is my pleasure to announce a NEW Olivine Diogenite, NWA >> 4223, the third >> member of this exclusive group. It took me three years to >> get to this point >> of first public offering so you know the science has been >> done! It has a TKW >> of just 329 grams and is very course-grained. I managed >> through eBay's site, >> so you can find all of the available material and >> "Official" classification >> of NWA 4223 with the "Buy it Now" feature here: >> >> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault >> >> In addition to these rare specimens, I have also listed >> these, most at >> reduced prices for the holidays: >> NWA 1878 Mesosiderite (Fantastic etch!) >> NWA 1879 Mesosiderite >> NWA 2932 Mesosiderite >> NWA 869 L4-6 1kg Lot >> NWA 3118 CV3 100g Lot >> NWA 3151 Brachinite Thin Section >> NWA 4528 H5 500g Lot >> Unclassified 2kg Lot >> Chergach Individual 92.1g (99% crusted) >> Chergach Individual 64.1g (100% crusted) >> Gao Individual 154g (from Haag Collection) >> Glorieta Pallasite Individual 13.7g >> Muonionalusta End Cut 76.9g (starts at just 99 cents) >> >> Thank you for checking out what I have to offer, I >> appreciate it! >> >> Best regards, >> Greg >> >> ==================== >> Greg Hupe >> The Hupe Collection >> NaturesVault (eBay) >> gmhupe at htn.net >> www.LunarRock.com >> IMCA 3163 >> ==================== >> Click here for my current eBay auctions: >> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault >> >> >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> **************Life should be easier. So should your >> homepage. Try the NEW >> AOL.com. >> (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002) >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com Mon Dec 1 20:21:55 2008 From: michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com (Michael Gilmer) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 17:21:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] eBay issues of late In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <940683.86360.qm@web58401.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi Folks! Speaking strictly as a buyer, I dislike eBay's new look and interface. I've been on eBay as a member since 1999 and I have witnessed all of the changes eBay has been through over the years - the good and the bad. I find eBay's new look runs slower than previous incarnations and it annoys me alot. Search results take longer to appear, regardless of how you display or sort them. And it's now more tedious to select and deselect search criteria. I also dislike the masking of bidder's identities. I like to know who I am bidding against, and this is another change that makes eBay more faceless and anonymous. The sense of community that early eBay had is long gone, IMO. FWIW, in almost 10 years on eBay (and about 7 on PayPal), I have never had any virus or scam issues. Sure, I get the typical crude phishing email attempts every so often, but who doesn't? My mother gets PayPal phishing emails and she doesn't even use PayPal. I think this recent new trend of eBay tripping off firewalls is related to increased data gathering on eBay's part, and not part of any overtly malicious agenda. It's intrusive, but it's mostly harmless. Today's advanced antispyware and firewall software is much more sensitive to threats than it used to be, and that adds to the problem. I'm not discounting anyone else's experiences to the contrary. I'm just saying my PC has never been attacked with a virus or malware coming from eBay or PayPal in 10 years of frequent usage. The old saying of "if it isn't broke, don't fix it" applies here to eBay. IMO, the look and interface of eBay was fine before this last round of changes. I don't see any "improvements", and it makes me look at the eBay experience as a chore now, and not a pleasure - like it used to be years ago. I'd much rather deal directly with my fellow list members off eBay, than use the eBay interface anyway. It's more personal, it's friendlier, and it's cheaper for everyone involved. Regards and clear skies, MikeG ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale .......................................................... From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com Mon Dec 1 20:22:52 2008 From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 17:22:52 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] sikote-alins Message-ID: <765517.41744.qm@web57807.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi all.I have added 1.3 kilo's of sikote-alins to my collection,bringing my total to 7.5 kilo's or 50 iron individuals.Most of them from jim strope who bar none,sells the best sikote-alins I have ever seen.I saw bob evans this weekend,and even he said,with all my different collecting changes,that this one has made the most sence.Thanks for the compliment bob.LIKE MONEY IN THE BANK!I hope to be adding more soon.Thanks for all the great deals jim. Steve R.Arnold,Chicago! http://chicagometeorites.net/ From raremeteorites at yahoo.com Mon Dec 1 20:26:09 2008 From: raremeteorites at yahoo.com (Adam Hupe) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 17:26:09 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Bonhams Auction Issue Message-ID: <514936.20661.qm@web30707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dear List Members, I have been receiving disturbing emails and phone calls about a specimen entered in the Bonhams' Natural History Auction. The piece in question is lot #1124. The 90.6 gram weight of this single rock claimed to be NWA 4880 outweighs the entire Total Known Weight of NWA 4880 entered in the Meteoritical Bulletin. I appreciate IMCA members and scientists reporting this to me but this is not my stone and I do not want to engage in pairing issues which are up to scientists to determine, not me. No, I did not add more stones to the NWA 4880 designation as some are accusing. This stone is not NWA 4880 and I did not provide it to the seller or Bonhams. I was sold out long ago on this material and this piece did not come from the Hupe Collection. Please direct your complaints to Bonhams as this is not my auction. This issue is between perspective buyers and the seller of this stone and not me so please direct your inquiries elsewhere. Here is a link to the auction in question: http://www.bonhams.com/cgi-bin/public.sh/pubweb/publicSite.r?sContinent=USA&screen=lotdetailsNoFlash&iSaleItemNo=4147630&iSaleNo=16155&iSaleSectionNo=1 Here is the meteoritical bulletin entry: http://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/metbull.php?code=45804 I am not trying to start something here, just making it clear that this stone did not come from my collection and is not NWA 4880 as I handled every genuine piece of this material as did the scientists who studied it. Best Regards, Adam From raremeteorites at yahoo.com Mon Dec 1 20:29:30 2008 From: raremeteorites at yahoo.com (Adam Hupe) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 17:29:30 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Bonhams Auction Issue Message-ID: <666728.10272.qm@web30703.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dear List Members, I have been receiving disturbing emails and phone calls about a specimen entered in the Bonhams' Natural History Auction. The piece in question is lot #1124. The 90.6 gram weight of this single rock claimed to be NWA 4880 outweighs the entire Total Known Weight of NWA 4880 entered in the Meteoritical Bulletin. I appreciate IMCA members and scientists reporting this to me but this is not my stone and I do not want to engage in pairing issues which are up to scientists to determine, not me. No, I did not add more stones to the NWA 4880 designation as some are accusing. This stone is not NWA 4880 and I did not provide it to the seller or Bonhams. I was sold out long ago on this material and this piece did not come from the Hupe Collection. Please direct your complaints to Bonhams as this is not my auction. This issue is between perspective buyers and the seller of this stone and not me so please direct your inquiries elsewhere. Here is a link to the auction in question: http://www.bonhams.com/cgi-bin/public.sh/pubweb/publicSite.r?sContinent=USA&screen=lotdetailsNoFlash&iSaleItemNo=4147630&iSaleNo=16155&iSaleSectionNo=1 Here is the meteoritical bulletin entry: http://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/metbull.php?code=45804 I am not trying to start something here, just making it clear that this stone did not come from my collection and is not NWA 4880 as I handled every genuine piece of this material as did the scientists who studied it. Best Regards, Adam From drtanuki at yahoo.com Mon Dec 1 20:37:21 2008 From: drtanuki at yahoo.com (drtanuki) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 17:37:21 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Brachinites & NWA 4882 Message-ID: <434786.18622.qm@web53209.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Greg and List, > Greg, Thank you for the offer. I was unaware that you were > selling it earlier at a discount rate. The post today was > the first that I heard that you had some new brachinite. Beautiful > meteorite!!! Great Job on cutting and polishing it. > Best Regards, Dirk...Tokyo > > Nothing negative was meant by my post. Sorry you felt so. > > > --- On Tue, 12/2/08, Greg Hupe > wrote: > > > From: Greg Hupe > > Subject: Brachinites & NWA 4882 > > To: drtanuki at yahoo.com > > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > Date: Tuesday, December 2, 2008, 10:18 AM > > Hello Dirk and List, > > > > Dirk, since you would like to promote brachinite > material, > > here is a little insight you may not be aware of: > > > > NWA 4882 Brachinite (unpaired) - I have made private > sales > > several months PRIOR to Martin's public offering, > at > > much less than their great price per gram. I know MY > > customers are very happy with their greatly discounted > rate! > > I simply do not have time to offer all of the > different and > > new meteorites I have at one time publicly, AND I am > not > > trying to interfer with their sales, but since Dirk > brought > > this out in what I perceive in a negative tone, here > is one > > heck of a Brachinite for serious collections: > > > > Click here to view complete slice of NWA 4882 > measuring > > 130mm wide! > > > > http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa4882/nwa4882slice.jpg > > > > > > > > Click here to view complete NWA 4882 stone before > cutting: > > > > http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa4882/nwa4882.jpg > > > > > > > > Click here to view close-up of polished NWA 4882 > matrix: > > > > http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa4882/nwa4882closeup.jpg > > > > > > Official Classification: > > Northwest Africa 4882 > > > > Algeria > > > > Find: July 2007 > > > > Achondrite (brachinite) > > > > History: Purchased by Greg Hup? in July 2007 from a > dealer > > in Tagounite, Morocco. > > > > Physical characteristics: Two dense, dark brown, > broken > > rounded stones (2891 g and 206 g) with weathered > fusion > > crust on some original exterior surfaces and thin > desert > > varnish coatings on hackly broken surfaces. > > > > Petrography: (A. Irving and S. Kuehner, UWS) > Coarse-grained > > rock (mostly 0.2-0.8 mm) with protogranular texture, > > composed predominantly of olivine with subordinate > green, > > Cr-bearing diopside, K-poor plagioclase, chromite, > iron > > sulfide, and kamacite (partially altered to iron > > hydroxides). Plagioclase is interstitial to mafic > silicates > > and is heterogeneous in distribution. Very > fine-grained > > (2-10 ?m), polyphase assemblages composed mostly of > > orthopyroxene, Ni-bearing pyrrhotite and Ni-free metal > with > > variable amounts of fayalite and chromite occur around > > larger pyrrhotite grains within olivine, and also as > small, > > isolated apparent inclusions within olivine. > > > > Geochemistry: Olivine (Fa35.0-35.2, FeO/MnO = > 70.9-71.3), > > clinopyroxene (Fs9.3Wo47.1, FeO/MnO = 38.6, Cr2O3 = > 0.76wt%, > > Al2O3 = 1.05 wt%), plagioclase (An32.1- > 37.6Or0.3-0.5), > > chromite [Cr/(Cr + Al) = 0.717, Mg/(Mg + Fe) = 0.239, > TiO2 = > > 0.71 wt%, ZnO = 0.30 wt%]. Oxygen isotopes: (D. > Rumble, CIW) > > Replicate analyses of acid-washed silicate material by > laser > > fluorination gave, respectively, ?18O = 2.064, 2.095; > ?17O > > = 4.368, 4.455; ?17O = -0.234, -0.248 per mil. > > > > Classification: Achondrite (brachinite). > > > > Specimens: A total of 20.4 g of sample and one > polished > > thin section are on deposit at UWS. GHup? holds the > main > > mass (actually now in a private collection). > > > > > > > > I sent this to a professional cutter who used a wire > saw > > and cut these at 3mm thick and polished to a high > luster. If > > you want a large museum quality specimen at an even > BETTER > > rate, be sure to contact me off list. > > > > > > > > I have already placed over half of this material into > large > > collections, which only leaves 15 slices and the 206g > > fragment. Half are the larger slices like the one > featured > > above. > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > Greg > > > > ==================== > > Greg Hupe > > The Hupe Collection > > NaturesVault (eBay) > > gmhupe at htn.net > > www.LunarRock.com > > IMCA 3163 > > ==================== > > Click here for my current eBay auctions: > > http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: > "drtanuki" > > > > To: ; > > > > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 7:38 PM > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NEW Olivine Diogenite - > NWA > > 4223 - AD > > > > > > > Hello Tom and List, > > > I would suggest that you check out the fantastic > NWA > > 5471 brachinite that Martin and Stefan are selling for > a > > VERY REASONABLE price; more than 2 grams of the > material > > instead of a thin section (you can make your own thin > > sections- several). > > > > > > Thank you Martin and Stefan for your very > generous > > price for such a rare classification. > > > > > > Dirk Ross...Tokyo > > > http://www.meteoritesjapan.com > > > http://www.insekijapan.com > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 12/2/08, STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com > > wrote: > > > > > >> From: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com > > > > >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NEW Olivine > > Diogenite - NWA 4223 - AD > > >> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > >> Date: Tuesday, December 2, 2008, 9:23 AM > > >> Hi list members, For those who are > interested in > > thin > > >> sections. Greg has > > >> been kind enough to (previously) lend me the > NWA > > 3151 > > >> Brachinite that he has > > >> for sale. My micrograph article in Meteorite > > Times > > >> December is on this thin > > >> section. > > >> > > >> I felt obliged to say it is a wonderful > sample > > prepared > > >> splendidly! I > > >> worked with it up to a magnification of 760X > with > > great > > >> results. If you are > > >> thinking of adding a thin to your > collection, I > > would > > >> recommend this one and check > > >> out the article. Bernd Pauli has provided > me > > with three > > >> excellent wide > > >> field cross polarized light micrographs that > are > > also > > >> included. > > >> > > >> Tom Phillips > > >> > > >> In a message dated 12/1/2008 4:36:02 P.M. > Mountain > > >> Standard Time, > > >> gmhupe at htn.net writes: > > >> Dear List Members, > > >> > > >> It is my pleasure to announce a NEW Olivine > > Diogenite, NWA > > >> 4223, the third > > >> member of this exclusive group. It took me > three > > years to > > >> get to this point > > >> of first public offering so you know the > science > > has been > > >> done! It has a TKW > > >> of just 329 grams and is very > course-grained. I > > managed > > >> through eBay's site, > > >> so you can find all of the available > material and > > >> "Official" classification > > >> of NWA 4223 with the "Buy it Now" > > feature here: > > >> > > >> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault > > >> > > >> In addition to these rare specimens, I have > also > > listed > > >> these, most at > > >> reduced prices for the holidays: > > >> NWA 1878 Mesosiderite (Fantastic etch!) > > >> NWA 1879 Mesosiderite > > >> NWA 2932 Mesosiderite > > >> NWA 869 L4-6 1kg Lot > > >> NWA 3118 CV3 100g Lot > > >> NWA 3151 Brachinite Thin Section > > >> NWA 4528 H5 500g Lot > > >> Unclassified 2kg Lot > > >> Chergach Individual 92.1g (99% crusted) > > >> Chergach Individual 64.1g (100% crusted) > > >> Gao Individual 154g (from Haag Collection) > > >> Glorieta Pallasite Individual 13.7g > > >> Muonionalusta End Cut 76.9g (starts at just > 99 > > cents) > > >> > > >> Thank you for checking out what I have to > offer, > > I > > >> appreciate it! > > >> > > >> Best regards, > > >> Greg > > >> > > >> ==================== > > >> Greg Hupe > > >> The Hupe Collection > > >> NaturesVault (eBay) > > >> gmhupe at htn.net > > >> www.LunarRock.com > > >> IMCA 3163 > > >> ==================== > > >> Click here for my current eBay auctions: > > >> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > ______________________________________________ > > >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > >> Meteorite-list mailing list > > >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > >> > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > >> > > >> **************Life should be easier. So > should > > your > > >> homepage. Try the NEW > > >> AOL.com. > > >> > > > (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002) > > >> > ______________________________________________ > > >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > >> Meteorite-list mailing list > > >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > >> > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > ______________________________________________ > > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > From darryl at dof3.com Mon Dec 1 21:10:54 2008 From: darryl at dof3.com (Darryl Pitt) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 21:10:54 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Bonhams Auction Issue In-Reply-To: <514936.20661.qm@web30707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <514936.20661.qm@web30707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8C9E3E7C-F820-4147-AB70-736C449F585E@dof3.com> My bad. The caption should have been written to state that the specimen is paired with 4880, as was reported to me by the seller. Sincerely, Darryl On Dec 1, 2008, at 8:26 PM, Adam Hupe wrote: > Dear List Members, > > I have been receiving disturbing emails and phone calls about a > specimen entered in the Bonhams' Natural History Auction. The piece > in question is lot #1124. The 90.6 gram weight of this single rock > claimed to be NWA 4880 outweighs the entire Total Known Weight of > NWA 4880 entered in the Meteoritical Bulletin. I appreciate IMCA > members and scientists reporting this to me but this is not my stone > and I do not want to engage in pairing issues which are up to > scientists to determine, not me. > > No, I did not add more stones to the NWA 4880 designation as some > are accusing. This stone is not NWA 4880 and I did not provide it to > the seller or Bonhams. I was sold out long ago on this material and > this piece did not come from the Hupe Collection. Please direct > your complaints to Bonhams as this is not my auction. This issue is > between perspective buyers and the seller of this stone and not me > so please direct your inquiries elsewhere. > > Here is a link to the auction in question: > http://www.bonhams.com/cgi-bin/public.sh/pubweb/publicSite.r?sContinent=USA&screen=lotdetailsNoFlash&iSaleItemNo=4147630&iSaleNo=16155&iSaleSectionNo=1 > > Here is the meteoritical bulletin entry: > http://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/metbull.php?code=45804 > > I am not trying to start something here, just making it clear that > this stone did not come from my collection and is not NWA 4880 as I > handled every genuine piece of this material as did the scientists > who studied it. > > Best Regards, > > Adam > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From searchingforfun at sbcglobal.net Tue Dec 2 00:39:09 2008 From: searchingforfun at sbcglobal.net (Brian Cox) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 21:39:09 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] ebay is slow and it's everywhere Message-ID: <002501c95440$4d9b3ff0$4001a8c0@BRIANSCOMPUTER> Hi folks, Just had to add my feelings on ebay here. I've been complaining for 6 months. The ebay reps are nice, but always say in their canned response: " it must be your computer that is slow, since we haven't had "any other complaints" regarding our site!" "You should clean your cache and empty your files and run your virus protection." It's unfortunately the same old story from ebay and until we all stand up together and protest I don't think they're going to do anything about it. It might sound radical, but hey, we all need to contact them. I've had ebay go down while loading photos or just writing a listing. I've had to contact them because their site went down in the middle of loading a listing and then I had to start over and it somehow had saved the previous listing that I didn't even finish and then I had to cancel that and get a credit for it over this weekend. I have a 3.0-6.0 speed on my laptop and get on ebay at lunch at my office. Believe me, every single computer I use at my office has much faster speeds than here at home and every other website sails along smoothly, but ebay. I know it's ebay that is slow because with the office computers taking more than 10 seconds to go from one item to another. Write them or call them. They will be losing business and also losing business for us if people get fed up with trying to get on to ebay for our auctions. Brian Cox IMCA # 6387 ebay ID- searchingforfun From bigpineartifacts at yahoo.com Mon Dec 1 22:47:13 2008 From: bigpineartifacts at yahoo.com (mckinney trammell) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 19:47:13 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] eBay issues of late In-Reply-To: <940683.86360.qm@web58401.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <325093.61569.qm@web53201.mail.re2.yahoo.com> ebay will be dead in 5 years. hi fees, no bad feedback, hidden identities, no recourse on bad paypal experiences, no phone support, etc., etc. a consolidated retro-fit of a not-yet formed craigslist-type site will be the new FREE venue. --- On Mon, 12/1/08, Michael Gilmer wrote: > From: Michael Gilmer > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] eBay issues of late > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Monday, December 1, 2008, 8:21 PM > Hi Folks! > > Speaking strictly as a buyer, I dislike eBay's new look > and > interface. I've been on eBay as a member since 1999 > and I have > witnessed all of the changes eBay has been through over the > years - > the good and the bad. > > I find eBay's new look runs slower than previous > incarnations and > it annoys me alot. Search results take longer to appear, > regardless > of how you display or sort them. And it's now more > tedious to > select and deselect search criteria. I also dislike the > masking of > bidder's identities. I like to know who I am bidding > against, and > this is another change that makes eBay more faceless and > anonymous. > The sense of community that early eBay had is long gone, > IMO. > > FWIW, in almost 10 years on eBay (and about 7 on PayPal), I > have > never had any virus or scam issues. Sure, I get the > typical > crude phishing email attempts every so often, but who > doesn't? > My mother gets PayPal phishing emails and she doesn't > even use > PayPal. I think this recent new trend of eBay tripping off > firewalls is related to increased data gathering on > eBay's part, > and not part of any overtly malicious agenda. It's > intrusive, but > it's mostly harmless. Today's advanced antispyware > and firewall > software is much more sensitive to threats than it used to > be, and > that adds to the problem. I'm not discounting anyone > else's > experiences to the contrary. I'm just saying my PC has > never > been attacked with a virus or malware coming from eBay or > PayPal > in 10 years of frequent usage. > > The old saying of "if it isn't broke, don't > fix it" applies here > to eBay. IMO, the look and interface of eBay was fine > before > this last round of changes. I don't see any > "improvements", and > it makes me look at the eBay experience as a chore now, and > not > a pleasure - like it used to be years ago. > > I'd much rather deal directly with my fellow list > members off eBay, > than use the eBay interface anyway. It's more > personal, it's > friendlier, and it's cheaper for everyone involved. > > Regards and clear skies, > > MikeG > > > > ......................................................... > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and > http://www.glassthrower.com > MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale > .......................................................... > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From rob at nakhladogmeteorites.com Mon Dec 1 23:33:32 2008 From: rob at nakhladogmeteorites.com (Rob Wesel) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 20:33:32 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] Bonhams Auction Issue References: <666728.10272.qm@web30703.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <008401c95437$21f998f0$6501a8c0@windows9bb74fe> And then there is Berduc, surprised to see that one in an IPO. Rob Wesel http://www.nakhladogmeteorites.com ------------------ We are the music makers... and we are the dreamers of the dreams. Willy Wonka, 1971 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adam Hupe" To: "Adam" Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 5:29 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Bonhams Auction Issue > Dear List Members, > > I have been receiving disturbing emails and phone calls about a specimen > entered in the Bonhams' Natural History Auction. The piece in question is > lot #1124. The 90.6 gram weight of this single rock claimed to be NWA 4880 > outweighs the entire Total Known Weight of NWA 4880 entered in the > Meteoritical Bulletin. I appreciate IMCA members and scientists > reporting this to me but this is not my stone and I do not want to engage > in pairing issues which are up to scientists to determine, not me. > > No, I did not add more stones to the NWA 4880 designation as some are > accusing. This stone is not NWA 4880 and I did not provide it to the > seller or Bonhams. I was sold out long ago on this material and this piece > did not come from the Hupe Collection. Please direct your complaints to > Bonhams as this is not my auction. This issue is between perspective > buyers and the seller of this stone and not me so please direct your > inquiries elsewhere. > > Here is a link to the auction in question: > http://www.bonhams.com/cgi-bin/public.sh/pubweb/publicSite.r?sContinent=USA&screen=lotdetailsNoFlash&iSaleItemNo=4147630&iSaleNo=16155&iSaleSectionNo=1 > > Here is the meteoritical bulletin entry: > http://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/metbull.php?code=45804 > > I am not trying to start something here, just making it clear that this > stone did not come from my collection and is not NWA 4880 as I handled > every genuine piece of this material as did the scientists who studied it. > > Best Regards, > > Adam > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From michael at spacerocksinc.com Tue Dec 2 00:00:28 2008 From: michael at spacerocksinc.com (Michael Johnson) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 21:00:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December 2, 2008 Message-ID: <22448113.1669791228194028367.JavaMail.root@mbs4.homesteadmail.com> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/December_2_2008.html From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Tue Dec 2 07:03:56 2008 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 13:03:56 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Brachinites & NWA 4882 In-Reply-To: References: <154443.86932.qm@web53211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001e01c95476$0e1a5290$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Good Morning list, and ooops what's going on? I'm sure Dirk wanted to express his enthusiasm rather than to offend someone. Friends! Brachinites! Can you have too many of them in the collection??? There are so few finds, such a tiny batch of material and yet they are so diverse and heterogeneous, that brachinites are still a really enigmatic class. Always a good read, David Weir's Studies: http://www.meteoritestudies.com/ When we decided to blow our NWA 5471, no matter whether it was the main mass or small-budget-sizes, the price-finding was simple. We checked the prices on the dealers' pages and the results on ebay of the few pieces offered there, to be sure, to have a silly low price. Check it by your own. 200$ a gram is affordable standard; everything below 200$ is a good buy; everything below 150$ is a bargain; everything below 100$ is a MUST and a categorical imperative. So we made 65$ a gram as a gift. Now Greg tells us, that his NWA 3151 is available at an even lower rate! What are the consequences? Good heavens - Buy them! Buy a NWA 3151, buy a NWA 5471, if you have already a 3151, take additionally a 5471, if you own a 5471, add a 3151. What are you waiting for, prices went silly! Bah, prices are in ruin Matteo 27:4 Follow me. Why "silly"? Stats, stats, stats! Use the formidable instrument of the Meteoritical Bulletin Database: http://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/metbull.php Nineteen (including ours not listed yet) finds and numbers. Pairing indications often mentioned in the descriptions, hence probably we're talking about less than a dozen different falls. Quantities, sum them up! 10kgs. That is all. Jump in the garden and grab 10kgs of stones from the rose bed to get a notion of the total volume in existence on Earth. What are you waiting for? Seen the numbers of finds and the weights, it's the same, as you would get offered a Moon at 10$ a gram. That tomorrow a ton of that stuff will fall? Unlikely, I guess. Since the day Jacob rested his weary head on the black baethyl to dream his dream of his ladder there were found only those few handfuls of tiny stones. Please - ANSMET, NIPR, EUROMET, PRIC with all their manpower and the primary and secondary means of maybe 1 billion together in these 31 years, they recovered half a pound of that stuff. Give 10,000$ to Greg or to us and you can have another half a pound. That's what I call a performance. And that's that "service to science", which sounds sometimes so solemnly, and where about some are smiling, but nevertheless is true. Huh, and revilers of dry food: Aren't these both not the best proves, that NWAs do have a "personality"? Eagles Nest. Found by a hunter in desert. Reid. Found by a hunter in desert. Hughes. Found by a hunter in desert. NWA 3151. Found by a hunter in desert. NWA 5471 Found by a hunter in desert. History reloaded! (Shhht have you noticed that NWA 3151 as well as NWA 5471 are looking prettier than Eagles Nest?). Quintessence of that little discussion is: Chladni's Heirs say: We give you the Koh-I-Noor for a dime! The Hup?s say: We give you the Millennium Star for a nickel! The collectors know that. Hey universities, colleges - these are our sweet pills to ease your pains of budget shortage! Good Morning Chicago, good morning London! Guten Morgen Wien! Bonjour Paris! Shubh Sanyankal Calcutta! Grueziwohl Bern! Salve Vatican........ Shhhhh, Perth, Adelaide, Victoria - homes of all brachinites are still slumbering on the other side of the globe. O joyful awakening, addition to the family! Wake up! And set for a moment these triceratops skulls, the fancy rock crystals, the silver curls, the rubies aside. Such expensive mass stuff you can buy in all eternity. Brachinites? You don't have something rarer but only today so cheap in your collections. And when they are gone, they're gone. Don't want to read as a doter your swan songs about the Golden Age of meteorites. You all were here, you all were informed. Ask NASA, ask ESA, ask IAXA - will it take a hundred years or 200 years - until probes will hunt for the remainders of the brachinite parent bodie(s) in space? Sounds all quite exaggerated, doesn't it? Sorry. These are the proportions, when we're talking about brachinites. These are the facts, when we're talking about meteorites. Brachinites are space exploration 2008-2050. And these are some and by far not all aspects, why we all and often the professionals too, do love and venerate our meteorites. Best! Martin -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Greg Hupe Gesendet: Dienstag, 2. Dezember 2008 02:18 An: drtanuki at yahoo.com Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: [meteorite-list] Brachinites & NWA 4882 Hello Dirk and List, Dirk, since you would like to promote brachinite material, here is a little insight you may not be aware of: NWA 4882 Brachinite (unpaired) - I have made private sales several months PRIOR to Martin's public offering, at much less than their great price per gram. I know MY customers are very happy with their greatly discounted rate! I simply do not have time to offer all of the different and new meteorites I have at one time publicly, AND I am not trying to interfer with their sales, but since Dirk brought this out in what I perceive in a negative tone, here is one heck of a Brachinite for serious collections: Click here to view complete slice of NWA 4882 measuring 130mm wide! http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa4882/nwa4882slice.jpg Click here to view complete NWA 4882 stone before cutting: http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa4882/nwa4882.jpg Click here to view close-up of polished NWA 4882 matrix: http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa4882/nwa4882closeup.jpg Official Classification: Northwest Africa 4882 Algeria Find: July 2007 Achondrite (brachinite) History: Purchased by Greg Hup? in July 2007 from a dealer in Tagounite, Morocco. Physical characteristics: Two dense, dark brown, broken rounded stones (2891 g and 206 g) with weathered fusion crust on some original exterior surfaces and thin desert varnish coatings on hackly broken surfaces. Petrography: (A. Irving and S. Kuehner, UWS) Coarse-grained rock (mostly 0.2-0.8 mm) with protogranular texture, composed predominantly of olivine with subordinate green, Cr-bearing diopside, K-poor plagioclase, chromite, iron sulfide, and kamacite (partially altered to iron hydroxides). Plagioclase is interstitial to mafic silicates and is heterogeneous in distribution. Very fine-grained (2-10 ?m), polyphase assemblages composed mostly of orthopyroxene, Ni-bearing pyrrhotite and Ni-free metal with variable amounts of fayalite and chromite occur around larger pyrrhotite grains within olivine, and also as small, isolated apparent inclusions within olivine. Geochemistry: Olivine (Fa35.0-35.2, FeO/MnO = 70.9-71.3), clinopyroxene (Fs9.3Wo47.1, FeO/MnO = 38.6, Cr2O3 = 0.76wt%, Al2O3 = 1.05 wt%), plagioclase (An32.1- 37.6Or0.3-0.5), chromite [Cr/(Cr + Al) = 0.717, Mg/(Mg + Fe) = 0.239, TiO2 = 0.71 wt%, ZnO = 0.30 wt%]. Oxygen isotopes: (D. Rumble, CIW) Replicate analyses of acid-washed silicate material by laser fluorination gave, respectively, ?18O = 2.064, 2.095; ?17O = 4.368, 4.455; ?17O = -0.234, -0.248 per mil. Classification: Achondrite (brachinite). Specimens: A total of 20.4 g of sample and one polished thin section are on deposit at UWS. GHup? holds the main mass (actually now in a private collection). I sent this to a professional cutter who used a wire saw and cut these at 3mm thick and polished to a high luster. If you want a large museum quality specimen at an even BETTER rate, be sure to contact me off list. I have already placed over half of this material into large collections, which only leaves 15 slices and the 206g fragment. Half are the larger slices like the one featured above. Best regards, Greg ==================== Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmhupe at htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 ==================== Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault ----- Original Message ----- From: "drtanuki" To: ; Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 7:38 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NEW Olivine Diogenite - NWA 4223 - AD > Hello Tom and List, > I would suggest that you check out the fantastic NWA 5471 brachinite that > Martin and Stefan are selling for a VERY REASONABLE price; more than 2 > grams of the material instead of a thin section (you can make your own > thin sections- several). > > Thank you Martin and Stefan for your very generous price for such a rare > classification. > > Dirk Ross...Tokyo > http://www.meteoritesjapan.com > http://www.insekijapan.com > > > > --- On Tue, 12/2/08, STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com > wrote: > >> From: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NEW Olivine Diogenite - NWA 4223 - AD >> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> Date: Tuesday, December 2, 2008, 9:23 AM >> Hi list members, For those who are interested in thin >> sections. Greg has >> been kind enough to (previously) lend me the NWA 3151 >> Brachinite that he has >> for sale. My micrograph article in Meteorite Times >> December is on this thin >> section. >> >> I felt obliged to say it is a wonderful sample prepared >> splendidly! I >> worked with it up to a magnification of 760X with great >> results. If you are >> thinking of adding a thin to your collection, I would >> recommend this one and check >> out the article. Bernd Pauli has provided me with three >> excellent wide >> field cross polarized light micrographs that are also >> included. >> >> Tom Phillips >> >> In a message dated 12/1/2008 4:36:02 P.M. Mountain >> Standard Time, >> gmhupe at htn.net writes: >> Dear List Members, >> >> It is my pleasure to announce a NEW Olivine Diogenite, NWA >> 4223, the third >> member of this exclusive group. It took me three years to >> get to this point >> of first public offering so you know the science has been >> done! It has a TKW >> of just 329 grams and is very course-grained. I managed >> through eBay's site, >> so you can find all of the available material and >> "Official" classification >> of NWA 4223 with the "Buy it Now" feature here: >> >> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault >> >> In addition to these rare specimens, I have also listed >> these, most at >> reduced prices for the holidays: >> NWA 1878 Mesosiderite (Fantastic etch!) >> NWA 1879 Mesosiderite >> NWA 2932 Mesosiderite >> NWA 869 L4-6 1kg Lot >> NWA 3118 CV3 100g Lot >> NWA 3151 Brachinite Thin Section >> NWA 4528 H5 500g Lot >> Unclassified 2kg Lot >> Chergach Individual 92.1g (99% crusted) >> Chergach Individual 64.1g (100% crusted) >> Gao Individual 154g (from Haag Collection) >> Glorieta Pallasite Individual 13.7g >> Muonionalusta End Cut 76.9g (starts at just 99 cents) >> >> Thank you for checking out what I have to offer, I >> appreciate it! >> >> Best regards, >> Greg >> >> ==================== >> Greg Hupe >> The Hupe Collection >> NaturesVault (eBay) >> gmhupe at htn.net >> www.LunarRock.com >> IMCA 3163 >> ==================== >> Click here for my current eBay auctions: >> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault >> >> >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> **************Life should be easier. So should your >> homepage. Try the NEW >> AOL.com. >> (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002) >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Tue Dec 2 07:40:23 2008 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 13:40:23 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Brachinites & NWA 4882 In-Reply-To: <001e01c95476$0e1a5290$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> References: <154443.86932.qm@web53211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <001e01c95476$0e1a5290$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: <002301c9547b$25e38c70$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Oooops, little correction, was in a brachinite flush. Must be NWA 4882 not 3151. But NWA 3151 is cool stuff too. And Marcin's NWA 4969. Take them all. All are the money well worth. So, something forgotten? Crazy. To be able to buy 5 brachinites in one day. Never happened before in history. Best Martin -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Martin Altmann Gesendet: Dienstag, 2. Dezember 2008 13:04 An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Brachinites & NWA 4882 Good Morning list, and ooops what's going on? I'm sure Dirk wanted to express his enthusiasm rather than to offend someone. Friends! Brachinites! Can you have too many of them in the collection??? There are so few finds, such a tiny batch of material and yet they are so diverse and heterogeneous, that brachinites are still a really enigmatic class. Always a good read, David Weir's Studies: http://www.meteoritestudies.com/ When we decided to blow our NWA 5471, no matter whether it was the main mass or small-budget-sizes, the price-finding was simple. We checked the prices on the dealers' pages and the results on ebay of the few pieces offered there, to be sure, to have a silly low price. Check it by your own. 200$ a gram is affordable standard; everything below 200$ is a good buy; everything below 150$ is a bargain; everything below 100$ is a MUST and a categorical imperative. So we made 65$ a gram as a gift. Now Greg tells us, that his NWA 3151 is available at an even lower rate! What are the consequences? Good heavens - Buy them! Buy a NWA 3151, buy a NWA 5471, if you have already a 3151, take additionally a 5471, if you own a 5471, add a 3151. What are you waiting for, prices went silly! Bah, prices are in ruin Matteo 27:4 Follow me. Why "silly"? Stats, stats, stats! Use the formidable instrument of the Meteoritical Bulletin Database: http://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/metbull.php Nineteen (including ours not listed yet) finds and numbers. Pairing indications often mentioned in the descriptions, hence probably we're talking about less than a dozen different falls. Quantities, sum them up! 10kgs. That is all. Jump in the garden and grab 10kgs of stones from the rose bed to get a notion of the total volume in existence on Earth. What are you waiting for? Seen the numbers of finds and the weights, it's the same, as you would get offered a Moon at 10$ a gram. That tomorrow a ton of that stuff will fall? Unlikely, I guess. Since the day Jacob rested his weary head on the black baethyl to dream his dream of his ladder there were found only those few handfuls of tiny stones. Please - ANSMET, NIPR, EUROMET, PRIC with all their manpower and the primary and secondary means of maybe 1 billion together in these 31 years, they recovered half a pound of that stuff. Give 10,000$ to Greg or to us and you can have another half a pound. That's what I call a performance. And that's that "service to science", which sounds sometimes so solemnly, and where about some are smiling, but nevertheless is true. Huh, and revilers of dry food: Aren't these both not the best proves, that NWAs do have a "personality"? Eagles Nest. Found by a hunter in desert. Reid. Found by a hunter in desert. Hughes. Found by a hunter in desert. NWA 3151. Found by a hunter in desert. NWA 5471 Found by a hunter in desert. History reloaded! (Shhht have you noticed that NWA 3151 as well as NWA 5471 are looking prettier than Eagles Nest?). Quintessence of that little discussion is: Chladni's Heirs say: We give you the Koh-I-Noor for a dime! The Hup?s say: We give you the Millennium Star for a nickel! The collectors know that. Hey universities, colleges - these are our sweet pills to ease your pains of budget shortage! Good Morning Chicago, good morning London! Guten Morgen Wien! Bonjour Paris! Shubh Sanyankal Calcutta! Grueziwohl Bern! Salve Vatican........ Shhhhh, Perth, Adelaide, Victoria - homes of all brachinites are still slumbering on the other side of the globe. O joyful awakening, addition to the family! Wake up! And set for a moment these triceratops skulls, the fancy rock crystals, the silver curls, the rubies aside. Such expensive mass stuff you can buy in all eternity. Brachinites? You don't have something rarer but only today so cheap in your collections. And when they are gone, they're gone. Don't want to read as a doter your swan songs about the Golden Age of meteorites. You all were here, you all were informed. Ask NASA, ask ESA, ask IAXA - will it take a hundred years or 200 years - until probes will hunt for the remainders of the brachinite parent bodie(s) in space? Sounds all quite exaggerated, doesn't it? Sorry. These are the proportions, when we're talking about brachinites. These are the facts, when we're talking about meteorites. Brachinites are space exploration 2008-2050. And these are some and by far not all aspects, why we all and often the professionals too, do love and venerate our meteorites. Best! Martin -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Greg Hupe Gesendet: Dienstag, 2. Dezember 2008 02:18 An: drtanuki at yahoo.com Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: [meteorite-list] Brachinites & NWA 4882 Hello Dirk and List, Dirk, since you would like to promote brachinite material, here is a little insight you may not be aware of: NWA 4882 Brachinite (unpaired) - I have made private sales several months PRIOR to Martin's public offering, at much less than their great price per gram. I know MY customers are very happy with their greatly discounted rate! I simply do not have time to offer all of the different and new meteorites I have at one time publicly, AND I am not trying to interfer with their sales, but since Dirk brought this out in what I perceive in a negative tone, here is one heck of a Brachinite for serious collections: Click here to view complete slice of NWA 4882 measuring 130mm wide! http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa4882/nwa4882slice.jpg Click here to view complete NWA 4882 stone before cutting: http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa4882/nwa4882.jpg Click here to view close-up of polished NWA 4882 matrix: http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa4882/nwa4882closeup.jpg Official Classification: Northwest Africa 4882 Algeria Find: July 2007 Achondrite (brachinite) History: Purchased by Greg Hup? in July 2007 from a dealer in Tagounite, Morocco. Physical characteristics: Two dense, dark brown, broken rounded stones (2891 g and 206 g) with weathered fusion crust on some original exterior surfaces and thin desert varnish coatings on hackly broken surfaces. Petrography: (A. Irving and S. Kuehner, UWS) Coarse-grained rock (mostly 0.2-0.8 mm) with protogranular texture, composed predominantly of olivine with subordinate green, Cr-bearing diopside, K-poor plagioclase, chromite, iron sulfide, and kamacite (partially altered to iron hydroxides). Plagioclase is interstitial to mafic silicates and is heterogeneous in distribution. Very fine-grained (2-10 ?m), polyphase assemblages composed mostly of orthopyroxene, Ni-bearing pyrrhotite and Ni-free metal with variable amounts of fayalite and chromite occur around larger pyrrhotite grains within olivine, and also as small, isolated apparent inclusions within olivine. Geochemistry: Olivine (Fa35.0-35.2, FeO/MnO = 70.9-71.3), clinopyroxene (Fs9.3Wo47.1, FeO/MnO = 38.6, Cr2O3 = 0.76wt%, Al2O3 = 1.05 wt%), plagioclase (An32.1- 37.6Or0.3-0.5), chromite [Cr/(Cr + Al) = 0.717, Mg/(Mg + Fe) = 0.239, TiO2 = 0.71 wt%, ZnO = 0.30 wt%]. Oxygen isotopes: (D. Rumble, CIW) Replicate analyses of acid-washed silicate material by laser fluorination gave, respectively, ?18O = 2.064, 2.095; ?17O = 4.368, 4.455; ?17O = -0.234, -0.248 per mil. Classification: Achondrite (brachinite). Specimens: A total of 20.4 g of sample and one polished thin section are on deposit at UWS. GHup? holds the main mass (actually now in a private collection). I sent this to a professional cutter who used a wire saw and cut these at 3mm thick and polished to a high luster. If you want a large museum quality specimen at an even BETTER rate, be sure to contact me off list. I have already placed over half of this material into large collections, which only leaves 15 slices and the 206g fragment. Half are the larger slices like the one featured above. Best regards, Greg ==================== Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmhupe at htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 ==================== Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault ----- Original Message ----- From: "drtanuki" To: ; Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 7:38 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NEW Olivine Diogenite - NWA 4223 - AD > Hello Tom and List, > I would suggest that you check out the fantastic NWA 5471 brachinite that > Martin and Stefan are selling for a VERY REASONABLE price; more than 2 > grams of the material instead of a thin section (you can make your own > thin sections- several). > > Thank you Martin and Stefan for your very generous price for such a rare > classification. > > Dirk Ross...Tokyo > http://www.meteoritesjapan.com > http://www.insekijapan.com > > > > --- On Tue, 12/2/08, STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com > wrote: > >> From: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NEW Olivine Diogenite - NWA 4223 - AD >> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> Date: Tuesday, December 2, 2008, 9:23 AM >> Hi list members, For those who are interested in thin >> sections. Greg has >> been kind enough to (previously) lend me the NWA 3151 >> Brachinite that he has >> for sale. My micrograph article in Meteorite Times >> December is on this thin >> section. >> >> I felt obliged to say it is a wonderful sample prepared >> splendidly! I >> worked with it up to a magnification of 760X with great >> results. If you are >> thinking of adding a thin to your collection, I would >> recommend this one and check >> out the article. Bernd Pauli has provided me with three >> excellent wide >> field cross polarized light micrographs that are also >> included. >> >> Tom Phillips >> >> In a message dated 12/1/2008 4:36:02 P.M. Mountain >> Standard Time, >> gmhupe at htn.net writes: >> Dear List Members, >> >> It is my pleasure to announce a NEW Olivine Diogenite, NWA >> 4223, the third >> member of this exclusive group. It took me three years to >> get to this point >> of first public offering so you know the science has been >> done! It has a TKW >> of just 329 grams and is very course-grained. I managed >> through eBay's site, >> so you can find all of the available material and >> "Official" classification >> of NWA 4223 with the "Buy it Now" feature here: >> >> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault >> >> In addition to these rare specimens, I have also listed >> these, most at >> reduced prices for the holidays: >> NWA 1878 Mesosiderite (Fantastic etch!) >> NWA 1879 Mesosiderite >> NWA 2932 Mesosiderite >> NWA 869 L4-6 1kg Lot >> NWA 3118 CV3 100g Lot >> NWA 3151 Brachinite Thin Section >> NWA 4528 H5 500g Lot >> Unclassified 2kg Lot >> Chergach Individual 92.1g (99% crusted) >> Chergach Individual 64.1g (100% crusted) >> Gao Individual 154g (from Haag Collection) >> Glorieta Pallasite Individual 13.7g >> Muonionalusta End Cut 76.9g (starts at just 99 cents) >> >> Thank you for checking out what I have to offer, I >> appreciate it! >> >> Best regards, >> Greg >> >> ==================== >> Greg Hupe >> The Hupe Collection >> NaturesVault (eBay) >> gmhupe at htn.net >> www.LunarRock.com >> IMCA 3163 >> ==================== >> Click here for my current eBay auctions: >> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault >> >> >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> **************Life should be easier. So should your >> homepage. Try the NEW >> AOL.com. >> (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002) >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr Tue Dec 2 09:20:53 2008 From: Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr (Zelimir Gabelica) Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2008 15:20:53 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] status of NWA brachinites In-Reply-To: <002301c9547b$25e38c70$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> References: <001e01c95476$0e1a5290$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> <154443.86932.qm@web53211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <001e01c95476$0e1a5290$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20081202142351.02a6a008@pop.univ-mulhouse.fr> Hi Martin, I fully agree. To be complete, here is what I have in my archives: ..."NWA 4969 (BRA, Algeria, tkw = 1 at 180 g) from Marcin, is paired with NWA 4882 (Algeria, from Hup?'s, BRA, tkw = 2@ 3096 g), but apparently not with NWA 3151 (BRA, Hup?'s, tkw = 1 at 1500 grams), nor with NWXA 5191 (1 at 26.5 g) With the new NWA 5471 from Heir's, this indeed makes 4 brachinites from the "NWA" vast strewnfield. However, in Met. Bull. database, we find the following brachinites from "NWA", this better completing the picture: NWA 595 (Cottingham, Morocco (?), 1 at 196 g) NWA 3151 (Hup?'s, NWA (Morocco ?), 1 at 1500 g) NWA 4872 (Aaronson, Algeria, 1 at 3000 g) NWA 4874 (Aaronson, Algeria, 1 at 28 g) (can it be paired with NWA 4872 above ???) NWA 4876 (anonymous, NWA ( Morocco ?), 1 at 130 g NWA 4882 (G. Hup?, Algeria, 2 at 3096 g) NWA 4969 (M. Cimala, NWA (Morocco ?), 1 at 180 g NWA 5191 (anonymous, found in Morocco desert, 1 at 26.5, said to be paired with NWA 3151, thus suggesting this latter was also found in Morocco NWA 5471 (C. Heir's, Morocco (??), 1 (??)@538 g, paired with ???? (not yet in Met. Bull.) ---------- Total: not copunting pairings, we find 9 different meteorite names (NWA numbers), probably 10 separate pieces, totalling 8694,5 grams Question: How far are these data (Met Bulll database + NWA 5471) correct and complete ? Who can complete, possibly remove the ???'s and add comments about pairings, so that we all can update our archives regarding NWA brachinites? Bernd? Greg ? Marcin ? Martin ? or Jeff ? Thanks and best wishes, Zelimir A 13:40 02/12/2008 +0100, Martin Altmann a ?crit : >Oooops, little correction, was in a brachinite flush. > >Must be NWA 4882 not 3151. > >But NWA 3151 is cool stuff too. >And Marcin's NWA 4969. > >Take them all. All are the money well worth. > >So, something forgotten? > >Crazy. To be able to buy 5 brachinites in one day. >Never happened before in history. > >Best >Martin > >-----Urspr??ngliche Nachricht----- >Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com >[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Martin >Altmann >Gesendet: Dienstag, 2. Dezember 2008 13:04 >An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Brachinites & NWA 4882 > >Good Morning list, > >and ooops what's going on? > >I'm sure Dirk wanted to express his enthusiasm rather than to offend someone. > >Friends! Brachinites! Can you have too many of them in the collection??? >There are so few finds, such a tiny batch of material and yet they are so >diverse and heterogeneous, that brachinites are still a really enigmatic class. > >Always a good read, David Weir's Studies: http://www.meteoritestudies.com/ > >When we decided to blow our NWA 5471, no matter whether it was the main >mass or small-budget-sizes, the price-finding was simple. We checked the >prices on the dealers' pages and the results on ebay of the few pieces >offered there, to be sure, to have a silly low price. > >Check it by your own. >200$ a gram is affordable standard; >everything below 200$ is a good buy; >everything below 150$ is a bargain; >everything below 100$ is a MUST and a categorical imperative. > >So we made 65$ a gram as a gift. > >Now Greg tells us, that his NWA 3151 is available at an even lower rate! > >What are the consequences? Good heavens - Buy them! Buy a NWA 3151, buy a >NWA 5471, if you have already a 3151, take additionally a 5471, if you own >a 5471, add a 3151. What are you waiting for, prices went silly! >Bah, prices are in ruin > Matteo 27:4 > >Follow me. Why "silly"? > >Stats, stats, stats! > >Use the formidable instrument of the Meteoritical Bulletin Database: >http://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/metbull.php > >Nineteen (including ours not listed yet) finds and numbers. >Pairing indications often mentioned in the descriptions, >hence probably we're talking about less than a dozen different falls. >Quantities, sum them up! 10kgs. That is all. >Jump in the garden and grab 10kgs of stones from the rose bed to get a >notion of the total volume in existence on Earth. > >What are you waiting for? >Seen the numbers of finds and the weights, it's the same, as you would get >offered a Moon at 10$ a gram. > >That tomorrow a ton of that stuff will fall? >Unlikely, I guess. >Since the day Jacob rested his weary head on the black baethyl to dream >his dream of his ladder there were found only those few handfuls of tiny >stones. > >Please - ANSMET, NIPR, EUROMET, PRIC with all their manpower and the >primary and secondary means of maybe 1 billion together in these 31 years, >they recovered half a pound of that stuff. > >Give 10,000$ to Greg or to us and you can have another half a pound. > >That's what I call a performance. >And that's that "service to science", which sounds sometimes so solemnly, >and where about some are smiling, but nevertheless is true. > >Huh, and revilers of dry food: >Aren't these both not the best proves, that NWAs do have a "personality"? > >Eagles Nest. Found by a hunter in desert. >Reid. Found by a hunter in desert. >Hughes. Found by a hunter in desert. >NWA 3151. Found by a hunter in desert. >NWA 5471 Found by a hunter in desert. > >History reloaded! > >(Shhht have you noticed that NWA 3151 as well as NWA 5471 are looking >prettier than Eagles Nest?). > > >Quintessence of that little discussion is: > >Chladni's Heirs say: We give you the Koh-I-Noor for a dime! >The Hup??s say: We give you the Millennium Star for a nickel! > >The collectors know that. > >Hey universities, colleges - these are our sweet pills to ease your pains >of budget shortage! > >Good Morning Chicago, good morning London! Guten Morgen Wien! Bonjour Paris! >Shubh Sanyankal Calcutta! Grueziwohl Bern! Salve Vatican........ >Shhhhh, Perth, Adelaide, Victoria - homes of all brachinites are still >slumbering on the other side of the globe. O joyful awakening, addition to >the family! > >Wake up! And set for a moment these triceratops skulls, the fancy rock >crystals, the silver curls, the rubies aside. Such expensive mass stuff >you can buy in all eternity. > >Brachinites? You don't have something rarer but only today so cheap in >your collections. >And when they are gone, they're gone. > >Don't want to read as a doter your swan songs about the Golden Age of >meteorites. >You all were here, you all were informed. > >Ask NASA, ask ESA, ask IAXA - will it take a hundred years or 200 years - >until probes will hunt for the remainders of the brachinite parent bodie(s) >in space? > > >Sounds all quite exaggerated, doesn't it? > >Sorry. These are the proportions, when we're talking about brachinites. >These are the facts, when we're talking about meteorites. > >Brachinites are space exploration 2008-2050. > >And these are some and by far not all aspects, why we all and often the >professionals too, >do love and venerate our meteorites. > >Best! >Martin > > > > >-----Urspr??ngliche Nachricht----- >Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com >[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Greg Hupe >Gesendet: Dienstag, 2. Dezember 2008 02:18 >An: drtanuki at yahoo.com >Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >Betreff: [meteorite-list] Brachinites & NWA 4882 > >Hello Dirk and List, > >Dirk, since you would like to promote brachinite material, here is a little >insight you may not be aware of: > >NWA 4882 Brachinite (unpaired) - I have made private sales several months >PRIOR to Martin's public offering, at much less than their great price per >gram. I know MY customers are very happy with their greatly discounted rate! >I simply do not have time to offer all of the different and new meteorites I >have at one time publicly, AND I am not trying to interfer with their sales, >but since Dirk brought this out in what I perceive in a negative tone, here >is one heck of a Brachinite for serious collections: > >Click here to view complete slice of NWA 4882 measuring 130mm wide! > >http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa4882/nwa4882slice.jpg > > > >Click here to view complete NWA 4882 stone before cutting: > >http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa4882/nwa4882.jpg > > > >Click here to view close-up of polished NWA 4882 matrix: > >http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa4882/nwa4882closeup.jpg > > >Official Classification: >Northwest Africa 4882 > >Algeria > >Find: July 2007 > >Achondrite (brachinite) > >History: Purchased by Greg Hup?? in July 2007 from a dealer in Tagounite, >Morocco. > >Physical characteristics: Two dense, dark brown, broken rounded stones (2891 >g and 206 g) with weathered fusion crust on some original exterior surfaces >and thin desert varnish coatings on hackly broken surfaces. > >Petrography: (A. Irving and S. Kuehner, UWS) Coarse-grained rock (mostly >0.2-0.8 mm) with protogranular texture, composed predominantly of olivine >with subordinate green, Cr-bearing diopside, K-poor plagioclase, chromite, >iron sulfide, and kamacite (partially altered to iron hydroxides). >Plagioclase is interstitial to mafic silicates and is heterogeneous in >distribution. Very fine-grained (2-10 ??m), polyphase assemblages composed >mostly of orthopyroxene, Ni-bearing pyrrhotite and Ni-free metal with >variable amounts of fayalite and chromite occur around larger pyrrhotite >grains within olivine, and also as small, isolated apparent inclusions >within olivine. > >Geochemistry: Olivine (Fa35.0-35.2, FeO/MnO = 70.9-71.3), clinopyroxene >(Fs9.3Wo47.1, FeO/MnO = 38.6, Cr2O3 = 0.76wt%, Al2O3 = 1.05 wt%), >plagioclase (An32.1- 37.6Or0.3-0.5), chromite [Cr/(Cr + Al) = 0.717, Mg/(Mg >+ Fe) = 0.239, TiO2 = 0.71 wt%, ZnO = 0.30 wt%]. Oxygen isotopes: (D. >Rumble, CIW) Replicate analyses of acid-washed silicate material by laser >fluorination gave, respectively, ??18O = 2.064, 2.095; ??17O = 4.368, 4.455; >??17O = -0.234, -0.248 per mil. > >Classification: Achondrite (brachinite). > >Specimens: A total of 20.4 g of sample and one polished thin section are on >deposit at UWS. GHup?? holds the main mass (actually now in a private >collection). > > > >I sent this to a professional cutter who used a wire saw and cut these at >3mm thick and polished to a high luster. If you want a large museum quality >specimen at an even BETTER rate, be sure to contact me off list. > > > >I have already placed over half of this material into large collections, >which only leaves 15 slices and the 206g fragment. Half are the larger >slices like the one featured above. > > > >Best regards, >Greg > >==================== >Greg Hupe >The Hupe Collection >NaturesVault (eBay) >gmhupe at htn.net >www.LunarRock.com >IMCA 3163 >==================== >Click here for my current eBay auctions: >http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "drtanuki" >To: ; >Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 7:38 PM >Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NEW Olivine Diogenite - NWA 4223 - AD > > > > Hello Tom and List, > > I would suggest that you check out the fantastic NWA 5471 brachinite that > > Martin and Stefan are selling for a VERY REASONABLE price; more than 2 > > grams of the material instead of a thin section (you can make your own > > thin sections- several). > > > > Thank you Martin and Stefan for your very generous price for such a rare > > classification. > > > > Dirk Ross...Tokyo > > http://www.meteoritesjapan.com > > http://www.insekijapan.com > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 12/2/08, STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com > > wrote: > > > >> From: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com > >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NEW Olivine Diogenite - NWA 4223 - AD > >> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >> Date: Tuesday, December 2, 2008, 9:23 AM > >> Hi list members, For those who are interested in thin > >> sections. Greg has > >> been kind enough to (previously) lend me the NWA 3151 > >> Brachinite that he has > >> for sale. My micrograph article in Meteorite Times > >> December is on this thin > >> section. > >> > >> I felt obliged to say it is a wonderful sample prepared > >> splendidly! I > >> worked with it up to a magnification of 760X with great > >> results. If you are > >> thinking of adding a thin to your collection, I would > >> recommend this one and check > >> out the article. Bernd Pauli has provided me with three > >> excellent wide > >> field cross polarized light micrographs that are also > >> included. > >> > >> Tom Phillips > >> > >> In a message dated 12/1/2008 4:36:02 P.M. Mountain > >> Standard Time, > >> gmhupe at htn.net writes: > >> Dear List Members, > >> > >> It is my pleasure to announce a NEW Olivine Diogenite, NWA > >> 4223, the third > >> member of this exclusive group. It took me three years to > >> get to this point > >> of first public offering so you know the science has been > >> done! It has a TKW > >> of just 329 grams and is very course-grained. I managed > >> through eBay's site, > >> so you can find all of the available material and > >> "Official" classification > >> of NWA 4223 with the "Buy it Now" feature here: > >> > >> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault > >> > >> In addition to these rare specimens, I have also listed > >> these, most at > >> reduced prices for the holidays: > >> NWA 1878 Mesosiderite (Fantastic etch!) > >> NWA 1879 Mesosiderite > >> NWA 2932 Mesosiderite > >> NWA 869 L4-6 1kg Lot > >> NWA 3118 CV3 100g Lot > >> NWA 3151 Brachinite Thin Section > >> NWA 4528 H5 500g Lot > >> Unclassified 2kg Lot > >> Chergach Individual 92.1g (99% crusted) > >> Chergach Individual 64.1g (100% crusted) > >> Gao Individual 154g (from Haag Collection) > >> Glorieta Pallasite Individual 13.7g > >> Muonionalusta End Cut 76.9g (starts at just 99 cents) > >> > >> Thank you for checking out what I have to offer, I > >> appreciate it! > >> > >> Best regards, > >> Greg > >> > >> ==================== > >> Greg Hupe > >> The Hupe Collection > >> NaturesVault (eBay) > >> gmhupe at htn.net > >> www.LunarRock.com > >> IMCA 3163 > >> ==================== > >> Click here for my current eBay auctions: > >> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ______________________________________________ > >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com > >> Meteorite-list mailing list > >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > >> > >> **************Life should be easier. So should your > >> homepage. Try the NEW > >> AOL.com. > >> > (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002) > >> ______________________________________________ > >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com > >> Meteorite-list mailing list > >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > >______________________________________________ >http://www.meteoritecentral.com >Meteorite-list mailing list >Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > >______________________________________________ >http://www.meteoritecentral.com >Meteorite-list mailing list >Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > >______________________________________________ >http://www.meteoritecentral.com >Meteorite-list mailing list >Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Universit? de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com Tue Dec 2 09:44:44 2008 From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 06:44:44 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] no pairings of the sikote-alin meteorite Message-ID: <741595.71233.qm@web57803.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Good morning list.It just has to be a mess with all these nwa pairings with these brachinite's.Well a good thing for me.I do not have any brach's in my collection,only sikote-alin's here.So no pairings will ever be a hassle for this greatest of falls.I have to take this back.I do have a piece of eagle's nest,a small fragment,but still small.But the sikote-alin meteorite is by far the best of all the non rusting irons.I do have one small question.I have a few pieces that shows lite bubbling.What would tend to cause that? Steve R.Arnold,Chicago! http://chicagometeorites.net/ From gmhupe at htn.net Tue Dec 2 10:02:47 2008 From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 10:02:47 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] status of NWA brachinites References: <001e01c95476$0e1a5290$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2><154443.86932.qm@web53211.mail.re2.yahoo.com><001e01c95476$0e1a5290$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> <5.0.2.1.2.20081202142351.02a6a008@pop.univ-mulhouse.fr> Message-ID: <464A232A28564398AFCBD71B889E2B2A@Gregor> Hello Zelimir, NWA 4882: Here is the statement I see in the Bulletin: "Classification: Achondrite (brachinite). This specimen (NWA 4882) is very similar in external appearance, texture, and mineral compositions to NWA 4969, with which it may be paired (Wittke et al. 2008). It also is very similar to NWA 3151 in texture, olivine, and plagioclase compositions, and patterns of staining around metal (Irving et al. 2005). However, the clinopyroxenes in these two specimens have somewhat different compositions, and NWA 3151 contains much less plagioclase and lacks the distinctive polyphase assemblages found in NWA 4882." I see they state NWA 4696 "may" be paired to NWA 4882. They do show that those two are not paired to NWA 3151. Concerning NWA 595, here is a link to an abstract that illustrates that it is actually not a brachinite: http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/metsoc2005/pdf/5213.pdf I hope this helps! Best regards, Greg ==================== Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmhupe at htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 ==================== Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zelimir Gabelica" To: "Martin Altmann" ; Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 9:20 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] status of NWA brachinites Hi Martin, I fully agree. To be complete, here is what I have in my archives: ..."NWA 4969 (BRA, Algeria, tkw = 1 at 180 g) from Marcin, is paired with NWA 4882 (Algeria, from Hup?'s, BRA, tkw = 2@ 3096 g), but apparently not with NWA 3151 (BRA, Hup?'s, tkw = 1 at 1500 grams), nor with NWXA 5191 (1 at 26.5 g) With the new NWA 5471 from Heir's, this indeed makes 4 brachinites from the "NWA" vast strewnfield. However, in Met. Bull. database, we find the following brachinites from "NWA", this better completing the picture: NWA 595 (Cottingham, Morocco (?), 1 at 196 g) NWA 3151 (Hup?'s, NWA (Morocco ?), 1 at 1500 g) NWA 4872 (Aaronson, Algeria, 1 at 3000 g) NWA 4874 (Aaronson, Algeria, 1 at 28 g) (can it be paired with NWA 4872 above ???) NWA 4876 (anonymous, NWA ( Morocco ?), 1 at 130 g NWA 4882 (G. Hup?, Algeria, 2 at 3096 g) NWA 4969 (M. Cimala, NWA (Morocco ?), 1 at 180 g NWA 5191 (anonymous, found in Morocco desert, 1 at 26.5, said to be paired with NWA 3151, thus suggesting this latter was also found in Morocco NWA 5471 (C. Heir's, Morocco (??), 1 (??)@538 g, paired with ???? (not yet in Met. Bull.) ---------- Total: not copunting pairings, we find 9 different meteorite names (NWA numbers), probably 10 separate pieces, totalling 8694,5 grams Question: How far are these data (Met Bulll database + NWA 5471) correct and complete ? Who can complete, possibly remove the ???'s and add comments about pairings, so that we all can update our archives regarding NWA brachinites? Bernd? Greg ? Marcin ? Martin ? or Jeff ? Thanks and best wishes, Zelimir A 13:40 02/12/2008 +0100, Martin Altmann a ?crit : >Oooops, little correction, was in a brachinite flush. > >Must be NWA 4882 not 3151. > >But NWA 3151 is cool stuff too. >And Marcin's NWA 4969. > >Take them all. All are the money well worth. > >So, something forgotten? > >Crazy. To be able to buy 5 brachinites in one day. >Never happened before in history. > >Best >Martin > >-----Urspr??ngliche Nachricht----- >Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com >[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Martin >Altmann >Gesendet: Dienstag, 2. Dezember 2008 13:04 >An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Brachinites & NWA 4882 > >Good Morning list, > >and ooops what's going on? > >I'm sure Dirk wanted to express his enthusiasm rather than to offend >someone. > >Friends! Brachinites! Can you have too many of them in the collection??? >There are so few finds, such a tiny batch of material and yet they are so >diverse and heterogeneous, that brachinites are still a really enigmatic >class. > >Always a good read, David Weir's Studies: >http://www.meteoritestudies.com/ > >When we decided to blow our NWA 5471, no matter whether it was the main >mass or small-budget-sizes, the price-finding was simple. We checked the >prices on the dealers' pages and the results on ebay of the few pieces >offered there, to be sure, to have a silly low price. > >Check it by your own. >200$ a gram is affordable standard; >everything below 200$ is a good buy; >everything below 150$ is a bargain; >everything below 100$ is a MUST and a categorical imperative. > >So we made 65$ a gram as a gift. > >Now Greg tells us, that his NWA 3151 is available at an even lower rate! > >What are the consequences? Good heavens - Buy them! Buy a NWA 3151, buy a >NWA 5471, if you have already a 3151, take additionally a 5471, if you own >a 5471, add a 3151. What are you waiting for, prices went silly! >Bah, prices are in ruin > Matteo 27:4 > >Follow me. Why "silly"? > >Stats, stats, stats! > >Use the formidable instrument of the Meteoritical Bulletin Database: >http://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/metbull.php > >Nineteen (including ours not listed yet) finds and numbers. >Pairing indications often mentioned in the descriptions, >hence probably we're talking about less than a dozen different falls. >Quantities, sum them up! 10kgs. That is all. >Jump in the garden and grab 10kgs of stones from the rose bed to get a >notion of the total volume in existence on Earth. > >What are you waiting for? >Seen the numbers of finds and the weights, it's the same, as you would get >offered a Moon at 10$ a gram. > >That tomorrow a ton of that stuff will fall? >Unlikely, I guess. >Since the day Jacob rested his weary head on the black baethyl to dream his >dream of his ladder there were found only those few handfuls of tiny >stones. > >Please - ANSMET, NIPR, EUROMET, PRIC with all their manpower and the >primary and secondary means of maybe 1 billion together in these 31 years, >they recovered half a pound of that stuff. > >Give 10,000$ to Greg or to us and you can have another half a pound. > >That's what I call a performance. >And that's that "service to science", which sounds sometimes so solemnly, >and where about some are smiling, but nevertheless is true. > >Huh, and revilers of dry food: >Aren't these both not the best proves, that NWAs do have a "personality"? > >Eagles Nest. Found by a hunter in desert. >Reid. Found by a hunter in desert. >Hughes. Found by a hunter in desert. >NWA 3151. Found by a hunter in desert. >NWA 5471 Found by a hunter in desert. > >History reloaded! > >(Shhht have you noticed that NWA 3151 as well as NWA 5471 are looking >prettier than Eagles Nest?). > > >Quintessence of that little discussion is: > >Chladni's Heirs say: We give you the Koh-I-Noor for a dime! >The Hup??s say: We give you the Millennium Star for a nickel! > >The collectors know that. > >Hey universities, colleges - these are our sweet pills to ease your pains >of budget shortage! > >Good Morning Chicago, good morning London! Guten Morgen Wien! Bonjour >Paris! >Shubh Sanyankal Calcutta! Grueziwohl Bern! Salve Vatican........ >Shhhhh, Perth, Adelaide, Victoria - homes of all brachinites are still >slumbering on the other side of the globe. O joyful awakening, addition to >the family! > >Wake up! And set for a moment these triceratops skulls, the fancy rock >crystals, the silver curls, the rubies aside. Such expensive mass stuff you >can buy in all eternity. > >Brachinites? You don't have something rarer but only today so cheap in your >collections. >And when they are gone, they're gone. > >Don't want to read as a doter your swan songs about the Golden Age of >meteorites. >You all were here, you all were informed. > >Ask NASA, ask ESA, ask IAXA - will it take a hundred years or 200 years - >until probes will hunt for the remainders of the brachinite parent bodie(s) >in space? > > >Sounds all quite exaggerated, doesn't it? > >Sorry. These are the proportions, when we're talking about brachinites. >These are the facts, when we're talking about meteorites. > >Brachinites are space exploration 2008-2050. > >And these are some and by far not all aspects, why we all and often the >professionals too, >do love and venerate our meteorites. > >Best! >Martin > > > > >-----Urspr??ngliche Nachricht----- >Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com >[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Greg >Hupe >Gesendet: Dienstag, 2. Dezember 2008 02:18 >An: drtanuki at yahoo.com >Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >Betreff: [meteorite-list] Brachinites & NWA 4882 > >Hello Dirk and List, > >Dirk, since you would like to promote brachinite material, here is a little >insight you may not be aware of: > >NWA 4882 Brachinite (unpaired) - I have made private sales several months >PRIOR to Martin's public offering, at much less than their great price per >gram. I know MY customers are very happy with their greatly discounted >rate! >I simply do not have time to offer all of the different and new meteorites >I >have at one time publicly, AND I am not trying to interfer with their >sales, >but since Dirk brought this out in what I perceive in a negative tone, here >is one heck of a Brachinite for serious collections: > >Click here to view complete slice of NWA 4882 measuring 130mm wide! > >http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa4882/nwa4882slice.jpg > > > >Click here to view complete NWA 4882 stone before cutting: > >http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa4882/nwa4882.jpg > > > >Click here to view close-up of polished NWA 4882 matrix: > >http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa4882/nwa4882closeup.jpg > > >Official Classification: >Northwest Africa 4882 > >Algeria > >Find: July 2007 > >Achondrite (brachinite) > >History: Purchased by Greg Hup?? in July 2007 from a dealer in Tagounite, >Morocco. > >Physical characteristics: Two dense, dark brown, broken rounded stones >(2891 >g and 206 g) with weathered fusion crust on some original exterior surfaces >and thin desert varnish coatings on hackly broken surfaces. > >Petrography: (A. Irving and S. Kuehner, UWS) Coarse-grained rock (mostly >0.2-0.8 mm) with protogranular texture, composed predominantly of olivine >with subordinate green, Cr-bearing diopside, K-poor plagioclase, chromite, >iron sulfide, and kamacite (partially altered to iron hydroxides). >Plagioclase is interstitial to mafic silicates and is heterogeneous in >distribution. Very fine-grained (2-10 ??m), polyphase assemblages composed >mostly of orthopyroxene, Ni-bearing pyrrhotite and Ni-free metal with >variable amounts of fayalite and chromite occur around larger pyrrhotite >grains within olivine, and also as small, isolated apparent inclusions >within olivine. > >Geochemistry: Olivine (Fa35.0-35.2, FeO/MnO = 70.9-71.3), clinopyroxene >(Fs9.3Wo47.1, FeO/MnO = 38.6, Cr2O3 = 0.76wt%, Al2O3 = 1.05 wt%), >plagioclase (An32.1- 37.6Or0.3-0.5), chromite [Cr/(Cr + Al) = 0.717, Mg/(Mg >+ Fe) = 0.239, TiO2 = 0.71 wt%, ZnO = 0.30 wt%]. Oxygen isotopes: (D. >Rumble, CIW) Replicate analyses of acid-washed silicate material by laser >fluorination gave, respectively, ??18O = 2.064, 2.095; ??17O = 4.368, >4.455; >?"17O = -0.234, -0.248 per mil. > >Classification: Achondrite (brachinite). > >Specimens: A total of 20.4 g of sample and one polished thin section are on >deposit at UWS. GHup?? holds the main mass (actually now in a private >collection). > > > >I sent this to a professional cutter who used a wire saw and cut these at >3mm thick and polished to a high luster. If you want a large museum quality >specimen at an even BETTER rate, be sure to contact me off list. > > > >I have already placed over half of this material into large collections, >which only leaves 15 slices and the 206g fragment. Half are the larger >slices like the one featured above. > > > >Best regards, >Greg > >==================== >Greg Hupe >The Hupe Collection >NaturesVault (eBay) >gmhupe at htn.net >www.LunarRock.com >IMCA 3163 >==================== >Click here for my current eBay auctions: >http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "drtanuki" >To: ; >Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 7:38 PM >Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NEW Olivine Diogenite - NWA 4223 - AD > > > > Hello Tom and List, > > I would suggest that you check out the fantastic NWA 5471 brachinite > > that > > Martin and Stefan are selling for a VERY REASONABLE price; more than 2 > > grams of the material instead of a thin section (you can make your own > > thin sections- several). > > > > Thank you Martin and Stefan for your very generous price for such a > > rare > > classification. > > > > Dirk Ross...Tokyo > > http://www.meteoritesjapan.com > > http://www.insekijapan.com > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 12/2/08, STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com > > wrote: > > > >> From: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com > >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NEW Olivine Diogenite - NWA 4223 - AD > >> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >> Date: Tuesday, December 2, 2008, 9:23 AM > >> Hi list members, For those who are interested in thin > >> sections. Greg has > >> been kind enough to (previously) lend me the NWA 3151 > >> Brachinite that he has > >> for sale. My micrograph article in Meteorite Times > >> December is on this thin > >> section. > >> > >> I felt obliged to say it is a wonderful sample prepared > >> splendidly! I > >> worked with it up to a magnification of 760X with great > >> results. If you are > >> thinking of adding a thin to your collection, I would > >> recommend this one and check > >> out the article. Bernd Pauli has provided me with three > >> excellent wide > >> field cross polarized light micrographs that are also > >> included. > >> > >> Tom Phillips > >> > >> In a message dated 12/1/2008 4:36:02 P.M. Mountain > >> Standard Time, > >> gmhupe at htn.net writes: > >> Dear List Members, > >> > >> It is my pleasure to announce a NEW Olivine Diogenite, NWA > >> 4223, the third > >> member of this exclusive group. It took me three years to > >> get to this point > >> of first public offering so you know the science has been > >> done! It has a TKW > >> of just 329 grams and is very course-grained. I managed > >> through eBay's site, > >> so you can find all of the available material and > >> "Official" classification > >> of NWA 4223 with the "Buy it Now" feature here: > >> > >> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault > >> > >> In addition to these rare specimens, I have also listed > >> these, most at > >> reduced prices for the holidays: > >> NWA 1878 Mesosiderite (Fantastic etch!) > >> NWA 1879 Mesosiderite > >> NWA 2932 Mesosiderite > >> NWA 869 L4-6 1kg Lot > >> NWA 3118 CV3 100g Lot > >> NWA 3151 Brachinite Thin Section > >> NWA 4528 H5 500g Lot > >> Unclassified 2kg Lot > >> Chergach Individual 92.1g (99% crusted) > >> Chergach Individual 64.1g (100% crusted) > >> Gao Individual 154g (from Haag Collection) > >> Glorieta Pallasite Individual 13.7g > >> Muonionalusta End Cut 76.9g (starts at just 99 cents) > >> > >> Thank you for checking out what I have to offer, I > >> appreciate it! > >> > >> Best regards, > >> Greg > >> > >> ==================== > >> Greg Hupe > >> The Hupe Collection > >> NaturesVault (eBay) > >> gmhupe at htn.net > >> www.LunarRock.com > >> IMCA 3163 > >> ==================== > >> Click here for my current eBay auctions: > >> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ______________________________________________ > >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com > >> Meteorite-list mailing list > >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > >> > >> **************Life should be easier. So should your > >> homepage. Try the NEW > >> AOL.com. > >> > (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002) > >> ______________________________________________ > >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com > >> Meteorite-list mailing list > >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > >______________________________________________ >http://www.meteoritecentral.com >Meteorite-list mailing list >Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > >______________________________________________ >http://www.meteoritecentral.com >Meteorite-list mailing list >Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > >______________________________________________ >http://www.meteoritecentral.com >Meteorite-list mailing list >Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Universit? de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr Tue Dec 2 10:15:05 2008 From: Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr (Zelimir Gabelica) Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2008 16:15:05 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] status of NWA brachinites In-Reply-To: <464A232A28564398AFCBD71B889E2B2A@Gregor> References: <001e01c95476$0e1a5290$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> <154443.86932.qm@web53211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <001e01c95476$0e1a5290$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> <5.0.2.1.2.20081202142351.02a6a008@pop.univ-mulhouse.fr> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20081202160811.02b6f008@pop.univ-mulhouse.fr> Yep Greg, you are fully right. I just made a wrong recopy from the database. Sorry for that. Even if NWA brachinites are not so numerous, it is easy to make confusions. Regarding NWA 595, this is new to me, though, as Met. Soc. member, I do have all the MAPS issues. Strange that, after this rather official statement (MAPS abstract), nobody brought corrections to the Met Bull data... Thanks a lot, yest it greatly helps. Best, Zelimir A 10:02 02/12/2008 -0500, Greg Hupe a ?crit : >Hello Zelimir, > >NWA 4882: Here is the statement I see in the Bulletin: >"Classification: Achondrite (brachinite). This specimen (NWA 4882) is very >similar in external appearance, texture, and mineral compositions to NWA >4969, with which it may be paired (Wittke et al. 2008). It also is very >similar to NWA 3151 in texture, olivine, and plagioclase compositions, and >patterns of staining around metal (Irving et al. 2005). However, the >clinopyroxenes in these two specimens have somewhat different >compositions, and NWA 3151 contains much less plagioclase and lacks the >distinctive polyphase assemblages found in NWA 4882." > >I see they state NWA 4696 "may" be paired to NWA 4882. They do show that >those two are not paired to NWA 3151. > >Concerning NWA 595, here is a link to an abstract that illustrates that it >is actually not a brachinite: >http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/metsoc2005/pdf/5213.pdf > >I hope this helps! > >Best regards, >Greg > >==================== >Greg Hupe >The Hupe Collection >NaturesVault (eBay) >gmhupe at htn.net >www.LunarRock.com >IMCA 3163 >==================== >Click here for my current eBay auctions: >http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault > > > >----- Original Message ----- From: "Zelimir Gabelica" > >To: "Martin Altmann" ; > >Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 9:20 AM >Subject: [meteorite-list] status of NWA brachinites > > >Hi Martin, > >I fully agree. > >To be complete, here is what I have in my archives: > >..."NWA 4969 (BRA, Algeria, tkw = 1 at 180 g) from Marcin, is paired with NWA >4882 (Algeria, from Hup?'s, BRA, tkw = 2@ 3096 g), but apparently not with >NWA 3151 (BRA, Hup?'s, tkw = 1 at 1500 grams), nor with NWXA 5191 (1 at 26.5 g) > >With the new NWA 5471 from Heir's, this indeed makes 4 brachinites from >the "NWA" vast strewnfield. > >However, in Met. Bull. database, we find the following brachinites from >"NWA", this better completing the picture: > >NWA 595 (Cottingham, Morocco (?), 1 at 196 g) >NWA 3151 (Hup?'s, NWA (Morocco ?), 1 at 1500 g) >NWA 4872 (Aaronson, Algeria, 1 at 3000 g) >NWA 4874 (Aaronson, Algeria, 1 at 28 g) (can it be paired with NWA 4872 above >???) >NWA 4876 (anonymous, NWA ( Morocco ?), 1 at 130 g >NWA 4882 (G. Hup?, Algeria, 2 at 3096 g) >NWA 4969 (M. Cimala, NWA (Morocco ?), 1 at 180 g >NWA 5191 (anonymous, found in Morocco desert, 1 at 26.5, said to be paired >with NWA 3151, thus suggesting this latter was also found in Morocco > >NWA 5471 (C. Heir's, Morocco (??), 1 (??)@538 g, paired with ???? (not yet >in Met. Bull.) >---------- >Total: not copunting pairings, we find 9 different meteorite names (NWA >numbers), probably 10 separate pieces, totalling 8694,5 grams > >Question: How far are these data (Met Bulll database + NWA 5471) correct >and complete ? > >Who can complete, possibly remove the ???'s and add comments about >pairings, so that we all can update our archives regarding NWA brachinites? > >Bernd? Greg ? Marcin ? Martin ? or Jeff ? > >Thanks and best wishes, > >Zelimir > > > >A 13:40 02/12/2008 +0100, Martin Altmann a ?crit : >>Oooops, little correction, was in a brachinite flush. >> >>Must be NWA 4882 not 3151. >> >>But NWA 3151 is cool stuff too. >>And Marcin's NWA 4969. >> >>Take them all. All are the money well worth. >> >>So, something forgotten? >> >>Crazy. To be able to buy 5 brachinites in one day. >>Never happened before in history. >> >>Best >>Martin >> >>-----Urspr??ngliche Nachricht----- >>Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com >>[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von >>Martin Altmann >>Gesendet: Dienstag, 2. Dezember 2008 13:04 >>An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Brachinites & NWA 4882 >> >>Good Morning list, >> >>and ooops what's going on? >> >>I'm sure Dirk wanted to express his enthusiasm rather than to offend someone. >> >>Friends! Brachinites! Can you have too many of them in the collection??? >>There are so few finds, such a tiny batch of material and yet they are so >>diverse and heterogeneous, that brachinites are still a really enigmatic class. >> >>Always a good read, David Weir's Studies: http://www.meteoritestudies.com/ >> >>When we decided to blow our NWA 5471, no matter whether it was the main >>mass or small-budget-sizes, the price-finding was simple. We checked the >>prices on the dealers' pages and the results on ebay of the few pieces >>offered there, to be sure, to have a silly low price. >> >>Check it by your own. >>200$ a gram is affordable standard; >>everything below 200$ is a good buy; >>everything below 150$ is a bargain; >>everything below 100$ is a MUST and a categorical imperative. >> >>So we made 65$ a gram as a gift. >> >>Now Greg tells us, that his NWA 3151 is available at an even lower rate! >> >>What are the consequences? Good heavens - Buy them! Buy a NWA 3151, buy a >>NWA 5471, if you have already a 3151, take additionally a 5471, if you >>own a 5471, add a 3151. What are you waiting for, prices went silly! >>Bah, prices are in ruin >> Matteo 27:4 >> >>Follow me. Why "silly"? >> >>Stats, stats, stats! >> >>Use the formidable instrument of the Meteoritical Bulletin Database: >>http://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/metbull.php >> >>Nineteen (including ours not listed yet) finds and numbers. >>Pairing indications often mentioned in the descriptions, >>hence probably we're talking about less than a dozen different falls. >>Quantities, sum them up! 10kgs. That is all. >>Jump in the garden and grab 10kgs of stones from the rose bed to get a >>notion of the total volume in existence on Earth. >> >>What are you waiting for? >>Seen the numbers of finds and the weights, it's the same, as you would >>get offered a Moon at 10$ a gram. >> >>That tomorrow a ton of that stuff will fall? >>Unlikely, I guess. >>Since the day Jacob rested his weary head on the black baethyl to dream >>his dream of his ladder there were found only those few handfuls of tiny >>stones. >> >>Please - ANSMET, NIPR, EUROMET, PRIC with all their manpower and the >>primary and secondary means of maybe 1 billion together in these 31 years, >>they recovered half a pound of that stuff. >> >>Give 10,000$ to Greg or to us and you can have another half a pound. >> >>That's what I call a performance. >>And that's that "service to science", which sounds sometimes so solemnly, >>and where about some are smiling, but nevertheless is true. >> >>Huh, and revilers of dry food: >>Aren't these both not the best proves, that NWAs do have a "personality"? >> >>Eagles Nest. Found by a hunter in desert. >>Reid. Found by a hunter in desert. >>Hughes. Found by a hunter in desert. >>NWA 3151. Found by a hunter in desert. >>NWA 5471 Found by a hunter in desert. >> >>History reloaded! >> >>(Shhht have you noticed that NWA 3151 as well as NWA 5471 are looking >>prettier than Eagles Nest?). >> >> >>Quintessence of that little discussion is: >> >>Chladni's Heirs say: We give you the Koh-I-Noor for a dime! >>The Hup??s say: We give you the Millennium Star for a nickel! >> >>The collectors know that. >> >>Hey universities, colleges - these are our sweet pills to ease your pains >>of budget shortage! >> >>Good Morning Chicago, good morning London! Guten Morgen Wien! Bonjour Paris! >>Shubh Sanyankal Calcutta! Grueziwohl Bern! Salve Vatican........ >>Shhhhh, Perth, Adelaide, Victoria - homes of all brachinites are still >>slumbering on the other side of the globe. O joyful awakening, addition >>to the family! >> >>Wake up! And set for a moment these triceratops skulls, the fancy rock >>crystals, the silver curls, the rubies aside. Such expensive mass stuff >>you can buy in all eternity. >> >>Brachinites? You don't have something rarer but only today so cheap in >>your collections. >>And when they are gone, they're gone. >> >>Don't want to read as a doter your swan songs about the Golden Age of >>meteorites. >>You all were here, you all were informed. >> >>Ask NASA, ask ESA, ask IAXA - will it take a hundred years or 200 years - >>until probes will hunt for the remainders of the brachinite parent bodie(s) >>in space? >> >> >>Sounds all quite exaggerated, doesn't it? >> >>Sorry. These are the proportions, when we're talking about brachinites. >>These are the facts, when we're talking about meteorites. >> >>Brachinites are space exploration 2008-2050. >> >>And these are some and by far not all aspects, why we all and often the >>professionals too, >>do love and venerate our meteorites. >> >>Best! >>Martin >> >> >> >> >>-----Urspr??ngliche Nachricht----- >>Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com >>[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Greg Hupe >>Gesendet: Dienstag, 2. Dezember 2008 02:18 >>An: drtanuki at yahoo.com >>Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>Betreff: [meteorite-list] Brachinites & NWA 4882 >> >>Hello Dirk and List, >> >>Dirk, since you would like to promote brachinite material, here is a little >>insight you may not be aware of: >> >>NWA 4882 Brachinite (unpaired) - I have made private sales several months >>PRIOR to Martin's public offering, at much less than their great price per >>gram. I know MY customers are very happy with their greatly discounted rate! >>I simply do not have time to offer all of the different and new meteorites I >>have at one time publicly, AND I am not trying to interfer with their sales, >>but since Dirk brought this out in what I perceive in a negative tone, here >>is one heck of a Brachinite for serious collections: >> >>Click here to view complete slice of NWA 4882 measuring 130mm wide! >> >>http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa4882/nwa4882slice.jpg >> >> >> >>Click here to view complete NWA 4882 stone before cutting: >> >>http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa4882/nwa4882.jpg >> >> >> >>Click here to view close-up of polished NWA 4882 matrix: >> >>http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa4882/nwa4882closeup.jpg >> >> >>Official Classification: >>Northwest Africa 4882 >> >>Algeria >> >>Find: July 2007 >> >>Achondrite (brachinite) >> >>History: Purchased by Greg Hup?? in July 2007 from a dealer in Tagounite, >>Morocco. >> >>Physical characteristics: Two dense, dark brown, broken rounded stones (2891 >>g and 206 g) with weathered fusion crust on some original exterior surfaces >>and thin desert varnish coatings on hackly broken surfaces. >> >>Petrography: (A. Irving and S. Kuehner, UWS) Coarse-grained rock (mostly >>0.2-0.8 mm) with protogranular texture, composed predominantly of olivine >>with subordinate green, Cr-bearing diopside, K-poor plagioclase, chromite, >>iron sulfide, and kamacite (partially altered to iron hydroxides). >>Plagioclase is interstitial to mafic silicates and is heterogeneous in >>distribution. Very fine-grained (2-10 ??m), polyphase assemblages composed >>mostly of orthopyroxene, Ni-bearing pyrrhotite and Ni-free metal with >>variable amounts of fayalite and chromite occur around larger pyrrhotite >>grains within olivine, and also as small, isolated apparent inclusions >>within olivine. >> >>Geochemistry: Olivine (Fa35.0-35.2, FeO/MnO = 70.9-71.3), clinopyroxene >>(Fs9.3Wo47.1, FeO/MnO = 38.6, Cr2O3 = 0.76wt%, Al2O3 = 1.05 wt%), >>plagioclase (An32.1- 37.6Or0.3-0.5), chromite [Cr/(Cr + Al) = 0.717, Mg/(Mg >>+ Fe) = 0.239, TiO2 = 0.71 wt%, ZnO = 0.30 wt%]. Oxygen isotopes: (D. >>Rumble, CIW) Replicate analyses of acid-washed silicate material by laser >>fluorination gave, respectively, ??18O = 2.064, 2.095; ??17O = 4.368, 4.455; >>?"17O = -0.234, -0.248 per mil. >> >>Classification: Achondrite (brachinite). >> >>Specimens: A total of 20.4 g of sample and one polished thin section are on >>deposit at UWS. GHup?? holds the main mass (actually now in a private >>collection). >> >> >> >>I sent this to a professional cutter who used a wire saw and cut these at >>3mm thick and polished to a high luster. If you want a large museum quality >>specimen at an even BETTER rate, be sure to contact me off list. >> >> >> >>I have already placed over half of this material into large collections, >>which only leaves 15 slices and the 206g fragment. Half are the larger >>slices like the one featured above. >> >> >> >>Best regards, >>Greg >> >>==================== >>Greg Hupe >>The Hupe Collection >>NaturesVault (eBay) >>gmhupe at htn.net >>www.LunarRock.com >>IMCA 3163 >>==================== >>Click here for my current eBay auctions: >>http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault >> >> >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "drtanuki" >>To: ; >>Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 7:38 PM >>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NEW Olivine Diogenite - NWA 4223 - AD >> >> >> > Hello Tom and List, >> > I would suggest that you check out the fantastic NWA 5471 >> brachinite > that >> > Martin and Stefan are selling for a VERY REASONABLE price; more than 2 >> > grams of the material instead of a thin section (you can make your own >> > thin sections- several). >> > >> > Thank you Martin and Stefan for your very generous price for such a > >> rare >> > classification. >> > >> > Dirk Ross...Tokyo >> > http://www.meteoritesjapan.com >> > http://www.insekijapan.com >> > >> > >> > >> > --- On Tue, 12/2/08, STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com >> > wrote: >> > >> >> From: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com >> >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NEW Olivine Diogenite - NWA 4223 - AD >> >> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> >> Date: Tuesday, December 2, 2008, 9:23 AM >> >> Hi list members, For those who are interested in thin >> >> sections. Greg has >> >> been kind enough to (previously) lend me the NWA 3151 >> >> Brachinite that he has >> >> for sale. My micrograph article in Meteorite Times >> >> December is on this thin >> >> section. >> >> >> >> I felt obliged to say it is a wonderful sample prepared >> >> splendidly! I >> >> worked with it up to a magnification of 760X with great >> >> results. If you are >> >> thinking of adding a thin to your collection, I would >> >> recommend this one and check >> >> out the article. Bernd Pauli has provided me with three >> >> excellent wide >> >> field cross polarized light micrographs that are also >> >> included. >> >> >> >> Tom Phillips >> >> >> >> In a message dated 12/1/2008 4:36:02 P.M. Mountain >> >> Standard Time, >> >> gmhupe at htn.net writes: >> >> Dear List Members, >> >> >> >> It is my pleasure to announce a NEW Olivine Diogenite, NWA >> >> 4223, the third >> >> member of this exclusive group. It took me three years to >> >> get to this point >> >> of first public offering so you know the science has been >> >> done! It has a TKW >> >> of just 329 grams and is very course-grained. I managed >> >> through eBay's site, >> >> so you can find all of the available material and >> >> "Official" classification >> >> of NWA 4223 with the "Buy it Now" feature here: >> >> >> >> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault >> >> >> >> In addition to these rare specimens, I have also listed >> >> these, most at >> >> reduced prices for the holidays: >> >> NWA 1878 Mesosiderite (Fantastic etch!) >> >> NWA 1879 Mesosiderite >> >> NWA 2932 Mesosiderite >> >> NWA 869 L4-6 1kg Lot >> >> NWA 3118 CV3 100g Lot >> >> NWA 3151 Brachinite Thin Section >> >> NWA 4528 H5 500g Lot >> >> Unclassified 2kg Lot >> >> Chergach Individual 92.1g (99% crusted) >> >> Chergach Individual 64.1g (100% crusted) >> >> Gao Individual 154g (from Haag Collection) >> >> Glorieta Pallasite Individual 13.7g >> >> Muonionalusta End Cut 76.9g (starts at just 99 cents) >> >> >> >> Thank you for checking out what I have to offer, I >> >> appreciate it! >> >> >> >> Best regards, >> >> Greg >> >> >> >> ==================== >> >> Greg Hupe >> >> The Hupe Collection >> >> NaturesVault (eBay) >> >> gmhupe at htn.net >> >> www.LunarRock.com >> >> IMCA 3163 >> >> ==================== >> >> Click here for my current eBay auctions: >> >> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> >> >> **************Life should be easier. So should your >> >> homepage. Try the NEW >> >> AOL.com. >> >> >>(http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002) >> >> ______________________________________________ >> >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > ______________________________________________ >> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> > Meteorite-list mailing list >> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > >> >> >>______________________________________________ >>http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>Meteorite-list mailing list >>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >>______________________________________________ >>http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>Meteorite-list mailing list >>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >>______________________________________________ >>http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>Meteorite-list mailing list >>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > >Prof. Zelimir Gabelica >Universit? de Haute Alsace >ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, >3, Rue A. Werner, >F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France >Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 >Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 > >______________________________________________ >http://www.meteoritecentral.com >Meteorite-list mailing list >Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Universit? de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 From gmhupe at htn.net Tue Dec 2 10:25:38 2008 From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 10:25:38 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA Number Count - status of NWA brachinites References: <001e01c95476$0e1a5290$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> <154443.86932.qm@web53211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <001e01c95476$0e1a5290$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> <5.0.2.1.2.20081202142351.02a6a008@pop.univ-mulhouse.fr> <5.0.2.1.2.20081202160811.02b6f008@pop.univ-mulhouse.fr> Message-ID: Hi Zelimir, One thing I forgot to mention, the NWA number count is at NWA 5480 (maybe a few more since last week). It looks like the brachinite count is what you have listed earlier, unless there are any currently under study, none that I have heard of from scientists here in the U.S. This goes to show that brachinites are still a very rare group of achondrites with a combined total of less than 9 kilos!! That is less than Lunar and Martian meteorites!!! Best regards, Greg ==================== Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmhupe at htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 ==================== Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zelimir Gabelica" To: "Greg Hupe" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 10:15 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] status of NWA brachinites Yep Greg, you are fully right. I just made a wrong recopy from the database. Sorry for that. Even if NWA brachinites are not so numerous, it is easy to make confusions. Regarding NWA 595, this is new to me, though, as Met. Soc. member, I do have all the MAPS issues. Strange that, after this rather official statement (MAPS abstract), nobody brought corrections to the Met Bull data... Thanks a lot, yest it greatly helps. Best, Zelimir A 10:02 02/12/2008 -0500, Greg Hupe a ?crit : >Hello Zelimir, > >NWA 4882: Here is the statement I see in the Bulletin: >"Classification: Achondrite (brachinite). This specimen (NWA 4882) is very >similar in external appearance, texture, and mineral compositions to NWA >4969, with which it may be paired (Wittke et al. 2008). It also is very >similar to NWA 3151 in texture, olivine, and plagioclase compositions, and >patterns of staining around metal (Irving et al. 2005). However, the >clinopyroxenes in these two specimens have somewhat different compositions, >and NWA 3151 contains much less plagioclase and lacks the distinctive >polyphase assemblages found in NWA 4882." > >I see they state NWA 4696 "may" be paired to NWA 4882. They do show that >those two are not paired to NWA 3151. > >Concerning NWA 595, here is a link to an abstract that illustrates that it >is actually not a brachinite: >http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/metsoc2005/pdf/5213.pdf > >I hope this helps! > >Best regards, >Greg > >==================== >Greg Hupe >The Hupe Collection >NaturesVault (eBay) >gmhupe at htn.net >www.LunarRock.com >IMCA 3163 >==================== >Click here for my current eBay auctions: >http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault > > > >----- Original Message ----- From: "Zelimir Gabelica" > >To: "Martin Altmann" ; > >Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 9:20 AM >Subject: [meteorite-list] status of NWA brachinites > > >Hi Martin, > >I fully agree. > >To be complete, here is what I have in my archives: > >..."NWA 4969 (BRA, Algeria, tkw = 1 at 180 g) from Marcin, is paired with NWA >4882 (Algeria, from Hup?'s, BRA, tkw = 2@ 3096 g), but apparently not with >NWA 3151 (BRA, Hup?'s, tkw = 1 at 1500 grams), nor with NWXA 5191 (1 at 26.5 g) > >With the new NWA 5471 from Heir's, this indeed makes 4 brachinites from >the "NWA" vast strewnfield. > >However, in Met. Bull. database, we find the following brachinites from >"NWA", this better completing the picture: > >NWA 595 (Cottingham, Morocco (?), 1 at 196 g) >NWA 3151 (Hup?'s, NWA (Morocco ?), 1 at 1500 g) >NWA 4872 (Aaronson, Algeria, 1 at 3000 g) >NWA 4874 (Aaronson, Algeria, 1 at 28 g) (can it be paired with NWA 4872 above >???) >NWA 4876 (anonymous, NWA ( Morocco ?), 1 at 130 g >NWA 4882 (G. Hup?, Algeria, 2 at 3096 g) >NWA 4969 (M. Cimala, NWA (Morocco ?), 1 at 180 g >NWA 5191 (anonymous, found in Morocco desert, 1 at 26.5, said to be paired >with NWA 3151, thus suggesting this latter was also found in Morocco > >NWA 5471 (C. Heir's, Morocco (??), 1 (??)@538 g, paired with ???? (not yet >in Met. Bull.) >---------- >Total: not copunting pairings, we find 9 different meteorite names (NWA >numbers), probably 10 separate pieces, totalling 8694,5 grams > >Question: How far are these data (Met Bulll database + NWA 5471) correct >and complete ? > >Who can complete, possibly remove the ???'s and add comments about >pairings, so that we all can update our archives regarding NWA brachinites? > >Bernd? Greg ? Marcin ? Martin ? or Jeff ? > >Thanks and best wishes, > >Zelimir > > > >A 13:40 02/12/2008 +0100, Martin Altmann a ?crit : >>Oooops, little correction, was in a brachinite flush. >> >>Must be NWA 4882 not 3151. >> >>But NWA 3151 is cool stuff too. >>And Marcin's NWA 4969. >> >>Take them all. All are the money well worth. >> >>So, something forgotten? >> >>Crazy. To be able to buy 5 brachinites in one day. >>Never happened before in history. >> >>Best >>Martin >> >>-----Urspr??ngliche Nachricht----- >>Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com >>[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Martin >>Altmann >>Gesendet: Dienstag, 2. Dezember 2008 13:04 >>An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Brachinites & NWA 4882 >> >>Good Morning list, >> >>and ooops what's going on? >> >>I'm sure Dirk wanted to express his enthusiasm rather than to offend >>someone. >> >>Friends! Brachinites! Can you have too many of them in the collection??? >>There are so few finds, such a tiny batch of material and yet they are so >>diverse and heterogeneous, that brachinites are still a really enigmatic >>class. >> >>Always a good read, David Weir's Studies: http://www.meteoritestudies.com/ >> >>When we decided to blow our NWA 5471, no matter whether it was the main >>mass or small-budget-sizes, the price-finding was simple. We checked the >>prices on the dealers' pages and the results on ebay of the few pieces >>offered there, to be sure, to have a silly low price. >> >>Check it by your own. >>200$ a gram is affordable standard; >>everything below 200$ is a good buy; >>everything below 150$ is a bargain; >>everything below 100$ is a MUST and a categorical imperative. >> >>So we made 65$ a gram as a gift. >> >>Now Greg tells us, that his NWA 3151 is available at an even lower rate! >> >>What are the consequences? Good heavens - Buy them! Buy a NWA 3151, buy a >>NWA 5471, if you have already a 3151, take additionally a 5471, if you own >>a 5471, add a 3151. What are you waiting for, prices went silly! >>Bah, prices are in ruin >> Matteo 27:4 >> >>Follow me. Why "silly"? >> >>Stats, stats, stats! >> >>Use the formidable instrument of the Meteoritical Bulletin Database: >>http://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/metbull.php >> >>Nineteen (including ours not listed yet) finds and numbers. >>Pairing indications often mentioned in the descriptions, >>hence probably we're talking about less than a dozen different falls. >>Quantities, sum them up! 10kgs. That is all. >>Jump in the garden and grab 10kgs of stones from the rose bed to get a >>notion of the total volume in existence on Earth. >> >>What are you waiting for? >>Seen the numbers of finds and the weights, it's the same, as you would get >>offered a Moon at 10$ a gram. >> >>That tomorrow a ton of that stuff will fall? >>Unlikely, I guess. >>Since the day Jacob rested his weary head on the black baethyl to dream >>his dream of his ladder there were found only those few handfuls of tiny >>stones. >> >>Please - ANSMET, NIPR, EUROMET, PRIC with all their manpower and the >>primary and secondary means of maybe 1 billion together in these 31 years, >>they recovered half a pound of that stuff. >> >>Give 10,000$ to Greg or to us and you can have another half a pound. >> >>That's what I call a performance. >>And that's that "service to science", which sounds sometimes so solemnly, >>and where about some are smiling, but nevertheless is true. >> >>Huh, and revilers of dry food: >>Aren't these both not the best proves, that NWAs do have a "personality"? >> >>Eagles Nest. Found by a hunter in desert. >>Reid. Found by a hunter in desert. >>Hughes. Found by a hunter in desert. >>NWA 3151. Found by a hunter in desert. >>NWA 5471 Found by a hunter in desert. >> >>History reloaded! >> >>(Shhht have you noticed that NWA 3151 as well as NWA 5471 are looking >>prettier than Eagles Nest?). >> >> >>Quintessence of that little discussion is: >> >>Chladni's Heirs say: We give you the Koh-I-Noor for a dime! >>The Hup??s say: We give you the Millennium Star for a nickel! >> >>The collectors know that. >> >>Hey universities, colleges - these are our sweet pills to ease your pains >>of budget shortage! >> >>Good Morning Chicago, good morning London! Guten Morgen Wien! Bonjour >>Paris! >>Shubh Sanyankal Calcutta! Grueziwohl Bern! Salve Vatican........ >>Shhhhh, Perth, Adelaide, Victoria - homes of all brachinites are still >>slumbering on the other side of the globe. O joyful awakening, addition to >>the family! >> >>Wake up! And set for a moment these triceratops skulls, the fancy rock >>crystals, the silver curls, the rubies aside. Such expensive mass stuff >>you can buy in all eternity. >> >>Brachinites? You don't have something rarer but only today so cheap in >>your collections. >>And when they are gone, they're gone. >> >>Don't want to read as a doter your swan songs about the Golden Age of >>meteorites. >>You all were here, you all were informed. >> >>Ask NASA, ask ESA, ask IAXA - will it take a hundred years or 200 years - >>until probes will hunt for the remainders of the brachinite parent >>bodie(s) >>in space? >> >> >>Sounds all quite exaggerated, doesn't it? >> >>Sorry. These are the proportions, when we're talking about brachinites. >>These are the facts, when we're talking about meteorites. >> >>Brachinites are space exploration 2008-2050. >> >>And these are some and by far not all aspects, why we all and often the >>professionals too, >>do love and venerate our meteorites. >> >>Best! >>Martin >> >> >> >> >>-----Urspr??ngliche Nachricht----- >>Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com >>[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Greg >>Hupe >>Gesendet: Dienstag, 2. Dezember 2008 02:18 >>An: drtanuki at yahoo.com >>Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>Betreff: [meteorite-list] Brachinites & NWA 4882 >> >>Hello Dirk and List, >> >>Dirk, since you would like to promote brachinite material, here is a >>little >>insight you may not be aware of: >> >>NWA 4882 Brachinite (unpaired) - I have made private sales several months >>PRIOR to Martin's public offering, at much less than their great price per >>gram. I know MY customers are very happy with their greatly discounted >>rate! >>I simply do not have time to offer all of the different and new meteorites >>I >>have at one time publicly, AND I am not trying to interfer with their >>sales, >>but since Dirk brought this out in what I perceive in a negative tone, >>here >>is one heck of a Brachinite for serious collections: >> >>Click here to view complete slice of NWA 4882 measuring 130mm wide! >> >>http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa4882/nwa4882slice.jpg >> >> >> >>Click here to view complete NWA 4882 stone before cutting: >> >>http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa4882/nwa4882.jpg >> >> >> >>Click here to view close-up of polished NWA 4882 matrix: >> >>http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa4882/nwa4882closeup.jpg >> >> >>Official Classification: >>Northwest Africa 4882 >> >>Algeria >> >>Find: July 2007 >> >>Achondrite (brachinite) >> >>History: Purchased by Greg Hup?? in July 2007 from a dealer in Tagounite, >>Morocco. >> >>Physical characteristics: Two dense, dark brown, broken rounded stones >>(2891 >>g and 206 g) with weathered fusion crust on some original exterior >>surfaces >>and thin desert varnish coatings on hackly broken surfaces. >> >>Petrography: (A. Irving and S. Kuehner, UWS) Coarse-grained rock (mostly >>0.2-0.8 mm) with protogranular texture, composed predominantly of olivine >>with subordinate green, Cr-bearing diopside, K-poor plagioclase, chromite, >>iron sulfide, and kamacite (partially altered to iron hydroxides). >>Plagioclase is interstitial to mafic silicates and is heterogeneous in >>distribution. Very fine-grained (2-10 ??m), polyphase assemblages composed >>mostly of orthopyroxene, Ni-bearing pyrrhotite and Ni-free metal with >>variable amounts of fayalite and chromite occur around larger pyrrhotite >>grains within olivine, and also as small, isolated apparent inclusions >>within olivine. >> >>Geochemistry: Olivine (Fa35.0-35.2, FeO/MnO = 70.9-71.3), clinopyroxene >>(Fs9.3Wo47.1, FeO/MnO = 38.6, Cr2O3 = 0.76wt%, Al2O3 = 1.05 wt%), >>plagioclase (An32.1- 37.6Or0.3-0.5), chromite [Cr/(Cr + Al) = 0.717, >>Mg/(Mg >>+ Fe) = 0.239, TiO2 = 0.71 wt%, ZnO = 0.30 wt%]. Oxygen isotopes: (D. >>Rumble, CIW) Replicate analyses of acid-washed silicate material by laser >>fluorination gave, respectively, ??18O = 2.064, 2.095; ??17O = 4.368, >>4.455; >>?"17O = -0.234, -0.248 per mil. >> >>Classification: Achondrite (brachinite). >> >>Specimens: A total of 20.4 g of sample and one polished thin section are >>on >>deposit at UWS. GHup?? holds the main mass (actually now in a private >>collection). >> >> >> >>I sent this to a professional cutter who used a wire saw and cut these at >>3mm thick and polished to a high luster. If you want a large museum >>quality >>specimen at an even BETTER rate, be sure to contact me off list. >> >> >> >>I have already placed over half of this material into large collections, >>which only leaves 15 slices and the 206g fragment. Half are the larger >>slices like the one featured above. >> >> >> >>Best regards, >>Greg >> >>==================== >>Greg Hupe >>The Hupe Collection >>NaturesVault (eBay) >>gmhupe at htn.net >>www.LunarRock.com >>IMCA 3163 >>==================== >>Click here for my current eBay auctions: >>http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault >> >> >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "drtanuki" >>To: ; >>Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 7:38 PM >>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NEW Olivine Diogenite - NWA 4223 - AD >> >> >> > Hello Tom and List, >> > I would suggest that you check out the fantastic NWA 5471 >> brachinite > that >> > Martin and Stefan are selling for a VERY REASONABLE price; more than 2 >> > grams of the material instead of a thin section (you can make your own >> > thin sections- several). >> > >> > Thank you Martin and Stefan for your very generous price for such a > >> rare >> > classification. >> > >> > Dirk Ross...Tokyo >> > http://www.meteoritesjapan.com >> > http://www.insekijapan.com >> > >> > >> > >> > --- On Tue, 12/2/08, STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com >> > wrote: >> > >> >> From: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com >> >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NEW Olivine Diogenite - NWA 4223 - AD >> >> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> >> Date: Tuesday, December 2, 2008, 9:23 AM >> >> Hi list members, For those who are interested in thin >> >> sections. Greg has >> >> been kind enough to (previously) lend me the NWA 3151 >> >> Brachinite that he has >> >> for sale. My micrograph article in Meteorite Times >> >> December is on this thin >> >> section. >> >> >> >> I felt obliged to say it is a wonderful sample prepared >> >> splendidly! I >> >> worked with it up to a magnification of 760X with great >> >> results. If you are >> >> thinking of adding a thin to your collection, I would >> >> recommend this one and check >> >> out the article. Bernd Pauli has provided me with three >> >> excellent wide >> >> field cross polarized light micrographs that are also >> >> included. >> >> >> >> Tom Phillips >> >> >> >> In a message dated 12/1/2008 4:36:02 P.M. Mountain >> >> Standard Time, >> >> gmhupe at htn.net writes: >> >> Dear List Members, >> >> >> >> It is my pleasure to announce a NEW Olivine Diogenite, NWA >> >> 4223, the third >> >> member of this exclusive group. It took me three years to >> >> get to this point >> >> of first public offering so you know the science has been >> >> done! It has a TKW >> >> of just 329 grams and is very course-grained. I managed >> >> through eBay's site, >> >> so you can find all of the available material and >> >> "Official" classification >> >> of NWA 4223 with the "Buy it Now" feature here: >> >> >> >> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault >> >> >> >> In addition to these rare specimens, I have also listed >> >> these, most at >> >> reduced prices for the holidays: >> >> NWA 1878 Mesosiderite (Fantastic etch!) >> >> NWA 1879 Mesosiderite >> >> NWA 2932 Mesosiderite >> >> NWA 869 L4-6 1kg Lot >> >> NWA 3118 CV3 100g Lot >> >> NWA 3151 Brachinite Thin Section >> >> NWA 4528 H5 500g Lot >> >> Unclassified 2kg Lot >> >> Chergach Individual 92.1g (99% crusted) >> >> Chergach Individual 64.1g (100% crusted) >> >> Gao Individual 154g (from Haag Collection) >> >> Glorieta Pallasite Individual 13.7g >> >> Muonionalusta End Cut 76.9g (starts at just 99 cents) >> >> >> >> Thank you for checking out what I have to offer, I >> >> appreciate it! >> >> >> >> Best regards, >> >> Greg >> >> >> >> ==================== >> >> Greg Hupe >> >> The Hupe Collection >> >> NaturesVault (eBay) >> >> gmhupe at htn.net >> >> www.LunarRock.com >> >> IMCA 3163 >> >> ==================== >> >> Click here for my current eBay auctions: >> >> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> >> >> **************Life should be easier. So should your >> >> homepage. Try the NEW >> >> AOL.com. >> >> >>(http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002) >> >> ______________________________________________ >> >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > ______________________________________________ >> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> > Meteorite-list mailing list >> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > >> >> >>______________________________________________ >>http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>Meteorite-list mailing list >>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >>______________________________________________ >>http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>Meteorite-list mailing list >>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >>______________________________________________ >>http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>Meteorite-list mailing list >>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > >Prof. Zelimir Gabelica >Universit? de Haute Alsace >ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, >3, Rue A. Werner, >F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France >Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 >Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 > >______________________________________________ >http://www.meteoritecentral.com >Meteorite-list mailing list >Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Universit? de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 From MeteorHntr at aol.com Tue Dec 2 11:06:07 2008 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 11:06:07 EST Subject: [meteorite-list] status of NWA brachinites Message-ID: Greg, and List, So, does this place NWA 595 in another group (grouplet) or would it be totally unique and anomalous, being the only representative known from it's parent body (so far)? Looking at anomalous irons, we see a list of MANY such meteorites. In fact, being "anomalous" or "unique" seems, from the collector point of view as less significant than if a rock is "grouped" with at least 4 other similar falls into an officially named group. It would be impossible for a collector to collect one of every group AND one of every anomalous meteorite. So is this the logic behind a prejudice against non-grouped meteorites with collectors? If RARITY was a key factor in values, wouldn't now NWA 595 spike very high in value above what it was when it was thought to be a Brachinite? It is now unique. It is now not one of 10 other Brachintes, but it is now 1 of 1 known of an extremely low TKW from a different parent body. Is NWA 595 now LESS valuable to science since it is not grouped with Brachinites? I would think it is now MORE valuable to science. So, should it become more valuable collectors as well? OK, I can kind of see the lack of increased commercial values with anomalous irons, in that science isn't doing as much research with irons as with achondrites. And with no thin sections of irons, it is very hard to see or appreciate unique features that make ungrouped irons "special" or "different." But with the unique achondrites, and the unique chondrites I think they should be more valuable. If someone had a unique Silver Dollar, Ferrari, or dinosaur skeleton it would be worth more, so why not with meteorites? Of course, as a dealer and as a marketer myself, I can appreciate when a dealer will "romance" what they have. And when more and more of something previously (more) rare is diluted (say with a 5th of the same thing being found) and a new "group" is formed, then one should spin the positive with the "news" of the new group being formed. ;-) And, yes, as a new group is formed, there is usually at least one new research paper churned out to at least announce the occasion and the new name of the group. So, I can see why all of a sudden some people would want at least a representative sample from the new group, especially if they are a collector that collects one from each recognized group. And the more dealers that are romancing their particular specimen from a new group the more chatter there is in the community of collectors. But, in the case of Brachinites, that group has been recognized for some time, so it isn't really a "new" one. So, can anyone help me understand this a little better? Steve Arnold #1 www.SteveArnoldMeteorites.com In a message dated 12/2/2008 9:16:35 A.M. Central Standard Time, Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr writes: Yep Greg, you are fully right. I just made a wrong recopy from the database. Sorry for that. Even if NWA brachinites are not so numerous, it is easy to make confusions. Regarding NWA 595, this is new to me, though, as Met. Soc. member, I do have all the MAPS issues. Strange that, after this rather official statement (MAPS abstract), nobody brought corrections to the Met Bull data... Thanks a lot, yest it greatly helps. Best, Zelimir **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002) From MeteorHntr at aol.com Tue Dec 2 11:14:33 2008 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 11:14:33 EST Subject: [meteorite-list] Unique Achondrites Message-ID: Hey Guys, Speaking of Ungrouped Achondrites, is there a nice comprehensive list of Unique or ungrouped achondrites? Is there a list of "less than 5 member grouped" (or potentially future grouped) achondrites or chondrites for that matter? I was thinking that Coolidge was a carbonaceous chondrite in a grouplet of 4, waiting for the 5th to show up to give it it's own official and named group within the Carbonaceous Chondrite Class. What are the others that may not be unique but not yet officially grouped yet? If becoming grouped actually helps the value of a meteorite go up, should we expect Coolidge to spike in value soon? Steve Arnold #1 www.SteveArnoldMeteorites.com **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002) From mikewren at gilanet.com Tue Dec 2 11:29:09 2008 From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 09:29:09 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Auction Highlights Some Ending Today, Some Tomorrow! References: <964C19B1-5B73-4712-8B62-728F2F8F2D8B@gilanet.com> Message-ID: <041C91D6-04DB-48C6-9488-B59748805AAB@gilanet.com> > Hello, Worth A Look! > >> >> Store Link For All: >> >> http://stores.ebay.com/voyage-botanica-natural-history >> >> >> >> Special Highlights: >> >> METEORITE Super Fine ESQUEL, Pallasite Slice, 20.48g >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200280442107 >> >> METEORITE NWA 2621, L4, Really Nice, 206 gram CS >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200280441048 >> >> Very Rare Brachinite, NWA 3151, 0.348 gram, nice specimen! >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200280427033 >> >> Awesome"Hammer Stone" WORDEN, Michigan, .358g >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200280422643 >> >> Beautiful MORASKO, Poland, IAB, 1136g End Cut, A real deal for the >> price! >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200280531242 >> >> BRENHAM, Siderite From Kansas, 14.72 gram, Check this one out! >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200280427026 >> >> Very Beautiful FUKANG, Pallasite 18.03 gram, LAST ONE I HAVE! >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200280427010 >> >> Rare Ungrouped OC3, NWA 4294, 3.74 gram >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200280424590 >> >> Superb Campo Del Cielo Complete Slice, 582g, A Really Nice Slice! >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200280422649 >> >> Beautiful L3, SAHARA 02500, 65.63 gram, My last slice to offer! >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200280422640 >> >> Super Rare GEORGETOWN, Australia, 12.89 gram, Down to my last! >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200278532483 >> >> Beautiful Flight Oriented Gao-Guenie, H5, 16g >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200278533724 >> >> Ungrouped Ataxite, DRONINO, Russia, 850g, nice endcut! >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200277463181 >> >> (NEW) NWA 4851, L6 With Shock Lines, 38 Gram, A real beauty! >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200278531242 >> >> Very Rare and Beautiful, NWA 801, CR2, 6.00g, Check This One Out! >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200277236027 >> >> A very Rare EL3 From Africa, NWA 2965, 216g... >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200277236018 >> >> RARE, SILVERTON, Texas, H4, LTKW, 0.61 gram, I only have a couple... >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200277236002 >> >> Meteorite (NEW), NWA 4953, L/LL6, LKW, 44.29 gram >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200278534257 >> >> Beautiful GIBEON, IVA Iron Specimen, 432g, A Super Deal! >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200280533830 >> >> METEORITE CANYON DIABLO Individual, 170 gram... >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200278535428 >> >> (New) Martian Shergottite, NWA 4925, "Mars"... >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200278531866 >> >> Superb CHICO, NM, L6 Impact Melt Breccia, 70g, This is a Prime >> Slice from this Meteorite >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200280540354 >> >> Meteorite (New) NWA 4734, Lunar Specimen Display! >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200277536177 >> >> METEORITE A Beautiful Sikhote-Alin, IIAB Iron, 510g, This is a >> Great Deal for a slice this nice! >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200280535281 >> >> If You Got The Cash...invest in this one! >> METEORITE Complete Slice of DAR AL GANI 400, Lunar, 33g >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200280547533 >> Classic GOLD BASIN, Arizona, L4, 17.25 gram http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200277236009 (New) Martian Shergottite, NWA 4925, "Mars" http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200278531866 and sooooooo many others to check out! >> >> >> Best Wishes and Thanks >> >> Michael Cottingham >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com Tue Dec 2 11:46:27 2008 From: joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com (JoshuaTreeMuseum) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 11:46:27 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] eBay Issues Message-ID: <174A125DB0DA44628E83AF51DD24FAA6@ET> Hi Brian, McKinney, Listoids: eBay, like rock & roll, will never die. It's the greatest platform for buying and selling meteorites the world has ever seen. Everything else too. Before eBay, where could the Average Joe go to buy his stones? After eBay buys Craigslist, (it already owns all the European Craigslist sites and is a major owner of Cl) it will become the final vestige of the free enterprise system, (along with Wal-Mart.) eBay has always had bugs, like when it sputters when you're listing and you have to redo the auction. I use eBay heavily daily and I haven't seen the slowdown others are talking about. Maybe it's increased usage for the holiday season overloading and bottlenecking the bandwith? eBay has been sort of screwing the sellers lately, but they'll come around and realize who it is that's giving them all that money! Just my plug nickel's worth! Phil Whitmer Joshua Tree Earth & Space Museum Lakeville, IN From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Tue Dec 2 12:36:27 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 09:36:27 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA Finishes Listening for Phoenix Mars Lander Message-ID: <200812021736.JAA22405@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/phoenix/release.php?ArticleID=1964 NASA Finishes Listening for Phoenix Mars Lander Jet Propulsion Laboratory December 01, 2008 PASADENA, Calif. -- After nearly a month of daily checks to determine whether Martian NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander would be able to communicate again, the agency has stopped using its Mars orbiters to hail the lander and listen for its beep. As expected, reduced daily sunshine eventually left the solar-powered Phoenix craft without enough energy to keep its batteries charged. The final communication from Phoenix remains a brief signal received via NASA's Mars Odyssey orbiter on Nov. 2. The Phoenix lander operated for two overtime months after achieving its science goals during its original three-month mission. It landed on a Martian arctic plain on May 25. "The variability of the Martian weather was a contributing factor to our loss of communications, and we were hoping that another variation in weather might give us an opportunity to contact the lander again," said Phoenix Mission Manager Chris Lewicki of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. The end of efforts to listen for Phoenix with Odyssey and NASA's Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter had been planned for the start of solar conjunction, when communications between Earth and Mars-orbiting spacecraft are minimized for a few weeks. That period, when the sun is close to the line between Earth and Mars, has begun and will last until mid-December. The last attempt to listen for a signal from Phoenix was when Odyssey passed overhead at 3:49 p.m. PST Saturday, Nov. 29 (4:26 p.m. local Mars solar time on the 182nd Martian day, or sol, since Phoenix landed). Nov. 29 was selected weeks ago as the final date for relay monitoring of Phoenix because it provided several weeks to the chance to confirm the fate of the lander, and it coincided with the beginning of solar conjunction operations for the orbiters. When they come out of the conjunction period, weather on far-northern Mars will be far colder, and the declining sunshine will have ruled out any chance of hearing from Phoenix. The Phoenix mission is led by Peter Smith of the University of Arizona, Tucson, with project management at JPL and development partnership at Lockheed Martin, Denver. International contributions come from the Canadian Space Agency; the University of Neuchatel, Switzerland; the universities of Copenhagen and Aarhus in Denmark; the Max Planck Institute in Germany; the Finnish Meteorological Institute; and Imperial College, London. The California Institute of Technology in Pasadena manages JPL for NASA. Media contact: Guy Webster 818-354-6278 Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. Guy.Webster at jpl.nasa.gov 2008-223 From STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com Tue Dec 2 13:20:41 2008 From: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com (STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 13:20:41 EST Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA 3151 Brachinite Greg's thin section Message-ID: Hi Dirk and List, I am not up to speed on the latest pairings or the going price for each. I respect a quality thin section and this NWA 3151 Brachinite thin section just that. Even if it is terrestrial basalt, a good thin section is a joy and believe me, even a Lunar thin is a disappointment if prepared poorly. (I have a few). Most people do not have the contacts to get a fine thin section prepared regardless of how much material they may have. My passion is high magnification meteorite micrographs. I like to think it is more art than science since I am working with magnification far greater than what would be used in classification determinations. Some times the structures I see are breath taking and not at all visible in standard methods. My high magnifications require great thin sections. My next Meteorite Times article is on this slide so I don't want to get in the way of Meteorite Times viewings by sharing all the shots. MT will be posted in just a few days but in the mean time, if any one wants one I will send one full size 8mp image as an attachment, The image is taken at a magnification of approximately 400X with a field of view of 0.25 mm. Very cool structure in this image. Hopefully it will make you want to see the rest. (especially the shots by Bernd Pauli. Tom Phillips In a message dated 12/1/2008 5:38:20 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, drtanuki at yahoo.com writes: Hello Tom and List, I would suggest that you check out the fantastic NWA 5471 brachinite that Martin and Stefan are selling for a VERY REASONABLE price; more than 2 grams of the material instead of a thin section (you can make your own thin sections- several). Thank you Martin and Stefan for your very generous price for such a rare classification. Dirk Ross...Tokyo http://www.meteoritesjapan.com http://www.insekijapan.com --- On Tue, 12/2/08, STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com wrote: > From: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NEW Olivine Diogenite - NWA 4223 - AD > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Tuesday, December 2, 2008, 9:23 AM > Hi list members, For those who are interested in thin > sections. Greg has > been kind enough to (previously) lend me the NWA 3151 > Brachinite that he has > for sale. My micrograph article in Meteorite Times > December is on this thin > section. > > I felt obliged to say it is a wonderful sample prepared > splendidly! I > worked with it up to a magnification of 760X with great > results. If you are > thinking of adding a thin to your collection, I would > recommend this one and check > out the article. Bernd Pauli has provided me with three > excellent wide > field cross polarized light micrographs that are also > included. > > Tom Phillips > > In a message dated 12/1/2008 4:36:02 P.M. Mountain > Standard Time, > gmhupe at htn.net writes: > Dear List Members, > > It is my pleasure to announce a NEW Olivine Diogenite, NWA > 4223, the third > member of this exclusive group. It took me three years to > get to this point > of first public offering so you know the science has been > done! It has a TKW > of just 329 grams and is very course-grained. I managed > through eBay's site, > so you can find all of the available material and > "Official" classification > of NWA 4223 with the "Buy it Now" feature here: > > http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault > > In addition to these rare specimens, I have also listed > these, most at > reduced prices for the holidays: > NWA 1878 Mesosiderite (Fantastic etch!) > NWA 1879 Mesosiderite > NWA 2932 Mesosiderite > NWA 869 L4-6 1kg Lot > NWA 3118 CV3 100g Lot > NWA 3151 Brachinite Thin Section > NWA 4528 H5 500g Lot > Unclassified 2kg Lot > Chergach Individual 92.1g (99% crusted) > Chergach Individual 64.1g (100% crusted) > Gao Individual 154g (from Haag Collection) > Glorieta Pallasite Individual 13.7g > Muonionalusta End Cut 76.9g (starts at just 99 cents) > > Thank you for checking out what I have to offer, I > appreciate it! > > Best regards, > Greg > > ==================== > Greg Hupe > The Hupe Collection > NaturesVault (eBay) > gmhupe at htn.net > www.LunarRock.com > IMCA 3163 > ==================== > Click here for my current eBay auctions: > http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > **************Life should be easier. So should your > homepage. Try the NEW > AOL.com. > (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002) From Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr Tue Dec 2 13:39:01 2008 From: Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr (Zelimir Gabelica) Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2008 19:39:01 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] status of NWA brachinites In-Reply-To: References: <5.0.2.1.2.20081202142351.02a6a008@pop.univ-mulhouse.fr> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20081202184028.02b04ec0@pop.univ-mulhouse.fr> Dear Ted, Many thanks for the link. The paper by Rumble et al. (you included) is very instructive and (if I understood well), although not conclusive regarding the BRA parent body (unique or not), at least it throws much more light on the other properties that are different (but not necessarily oxygen isotopic data), for at least the 4 brachinites cited (NWA 4872, 4874, 4882 and 4969), concluding that they are (possibly ? probably?) not paired. On the other hand, pairing of NWA 5199 and 3151 was suggested (Met. Bull. database). As for NWA 595, it also seems to be a unique and different meteorite (do I conclude correctly by saying that it might even not be a brachinite since it is related, at least taking into account the 17O data, to Zag(b) and NWA 4042 (respectively "Acungr" and "BRA" (Met. Bull), although data for the latter might have been updated since ?) My question is here very similar to the conclusion Steve Arnold #1 sent realier today to the list as post. At least I am aware that the BRA-type meteorites evoqued here are still puzzling and not evident to identify unambigously. I also read with great attention the dozen or so other papers you mentioned in the link, related to other classifications and all of them are indeed very informative, even if sometimes not fully conclusive (which is what we so often must conclude from scientific research). Again, as for Steve Arnold, my questions here basically originate from a collector's point of view, meaning that we are also concerned with meteorite accurate types and their belonging (or not) to group(let)s. In other words, with their as accurate as possible classification. This does not mean that we don' appreciate the important science and research that is behind, without which not any classification could be proposed. Thanks again, All the best to all, Zelimir A 08:09 02/12/2008 -0700, Ted Bunch a ?crit : >Dear Zelimir please see below for at least one answer. > >Ted Bunch > > >On 12/2/08 7:20 AM, "Zelimir Gabelica" wrote: > > > Hi Martin, > > > > I fully agree. > > > > To be complete, here is what I have in my archives: > > > > ..."NWA 4969 (BRA, Algeria, tkw = 1 at 180 g) from Marcin, is paired with NWA > > 4882 (Algeria, from Hup?'s, BRA, tkw = 2@ 3096 g), but apparently not with > > NWA 3151 (BRA, Hup?'s, tkw = 1 at 1500 grams), nor with NWXA 5191 (1 at 26.5 g) > > > > With the new NWA 5471 from Heir's, this indeed makes 4 brachinites from > > the "NWA" vast strewnfield. > > > > However, in Met. Bull. database, we find the following brachinites from > > "NWA", this better completing the picture: > > > > NWA 595 (Cottingham, Morocco (?), 1 at 196 g) > > NWA 3151 (Hup?'s, NWA (Morocco ?), 1 at 1500 g) > > NWA 4872 (Aaronson, Algeria, 1 at 3000 g) > > NWA 4874 (Aaronson, Algeria, 1 at 28 g) (can it be paired with NWA 4872 above > > ???) NO, please go to > http://www4.nau.edu/meteorite/index.html, > click on BRACHINITES and see for yourself. > > > > NWA 4876 (anonymous, NWA ( Morocco ?), 1 at 130 g > > NWA 4882 (G. Hup?, Algeria, 2 at 3096 g) > > NWA 4969 (M. Cimala, NWA (Morocco ?), 1 at 180 g > > NWA 5191 (anonymous, found in Morocco desert, 1 at 26.5, said to be paired > > with NWA 3151, thus suggesting this latter was also found in Morocco > > > > NWA 5471 (C. Heir's, Morocco (??), 1 (??)@538 g, paired with ???? (not yet > > in Met. Bull.) > > ---------- > > Total: not copunting pairings, we find 9 different meteorite names (NWA > > numbers), probably 10 separate pieces, totalling 8694,5 grams > > > > Question: How far are these data (Met Bulll database + NWA 5471) correct > > and complete ? > > > > Who can complete, possibly remove the ???'s and add comments about > > pairings, so that we all can update our archives regarding NWA brachinites? > > > > Bernd? Greg ? Marcin ? Martin ? or Jeff ? > > > > Thanks and best wishes, > > > > Zelimir Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Universit? de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 From bigpineartifacts at yahoo.com Tue Dec 2 13:40:11 2008 From: bigpineartifacts at yahoo.com (mckinney trammell) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 10:40:11 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] eBay Issues In-Reply-To: <174A125DB0DA44628E83AF51DD24FAA6@ET> Message-ID: <772809.26360.qm@web53211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> they are screwing the customer+ themselves out fo existance with hi fees=bottom line. yea, the betamax, vhs, pacer and commodore c-64 were all great in their times. --- On Tue, 12/2/08, JoshuaTreeMuseum wrote: > From: JoshuaTreeMuseum > Subject: [meteorite-list] eBay Issues > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Tuesday, December 2, 2008, 11:46 AM > Hi Brian, McKinney, Listoids: > > eBay, like rock & roll, will never die. It's the > greatest platform for buying and selling meteorites the > world has ever seen. Everything else too. Before eBay, > where could the Average Joe go to buy his stones? After > eBay buys Craigslist, (it already owns all the European > Craigslist sites and is a major owner of Cl) it will become > the final vestige of the free enterprise system, (along with > Wal-Mart.) eBay has always had bugs, like when it sputters > when you're listing and you have to redo the auction. I > use eBay heavily daily and I haven't seen the slowdown > others are talking about. Maybe it's increased usage for > the holiday season overloading and bottlenecking the > bandwith? eBay has been sort of screwing the sellers > lately, but they'll come around and realize who it is > that's giving them all that money! Just my plug > nickel's worth! > > Phil Whitmer > Joshua Tree Earth & Space Museum > Lakeville, IN > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From cynapse at charter.net Tue Dec 2 13:43:01 2008 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2008 13:43:01 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] eBay Issues In-Reply-To: <772809.26360.qm@web53211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <174A125DB0DA44628E83AF51DD24FAA6@ET> <772809.26360.qm@web53211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Dec 2008 10:40:11 -0800 (PST), you wrote: >they are screwing the customer+ themselves out fo existance with hi fees=bottom line. yea, the betamax, vhs, pacer and commodore c-64 were all great in their times. > > You know what Betamax, VHS, the Pacer and the Commodore 64 all had? Viable competition. From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Tue Dec 2 13:58:03 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 10:58:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] A New Compositional Class of Comets: from Fire, Ice, or Beyond? Message-ID: <200812021858.KAA26143@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://www.lowell.edu/media/releases.php?release=20081202 FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE December 2, 2008 A New Compositional Class of Comets: from Fire, Ice, or Beyond? Lowell Observatory Astronomer Confirms New Class of Comets Flagstaff, Ariz. -- Comet 96P/Machholz 1 shows extremely anomalous compositional characteristics helping pinpoint its origin to one of three intriguing scenarios. David Schleicher, Lowell Observatory planetary astronomer, measured abundances of five molecular species in the comae of 150 comets and discovered that one comet, 96P/Machholz 1, has an extremely unusual chemistry. The exact cause of this chemical anomaly remains unknown, but each of three possible explanations will yield important but differing new constraints on the formation or evolution of comets. The study is published in the November issue of the Astronomical Journal. The discovery of comet Machholz 1's extremely anomalous composition reveals the existence of a new class of comets. Astronomers identified two other classes in the 1990s. While Machholz 1 also has strongly depleted C2 and C3 carbon species, what makes it anomalous is that the molecule cyanogen, CN, is extremely depleted. In Machholz 1 CN is missing by about a factor of 72 from the average of other comets, i.e., only a little above one percent of normal. "This depletion of CN is much more than ever seen for any previously studied comet, and only one other comet has even exhibited a CN depletion," said Schleicher. One possible explanation is that Machholz 1 did not originate in our Solar System, but instead escaped from another star. In this scenario, the other star's proto-planetary disk might have had a lower abundance of carbon, resulting in all carbon-bearing compounds having lower abundances. "A large fraction of comets in our own Solar System have escaped into interstellar space, so we expect that many comets formed around other stars would also have escaped," said Schleicher. "Some of these will have crossed paths with the sun, and Machholz 1 could be an interstellar interloper." Another possible explanation for Machholz 1's anomalous composition is that it formed even further from the sun in a colder or more extreme environment than another other comet we have studied thus far. If this was the case, then the scarcity of such objects is likely associated with the significant difficulty of explaining how such comets moved into the inner solar system where they can then be discovered and observed. A third possibility is that Machholz 1 originated as a carbon-chain depleted comet but that its chemistry was subsequently altered by extreme heat. While no other comet has exhibited changes in chemistry due to subsequent heating by the sun, Machholz 1 has the distinction of having an orbit that now takes it to well inside Mercury's orbit every five years. (Other comets get even closer to the sun, but not as often). "Since its orbit is unusual, we must be suspicious that repeated high temperature cooking might be the cause for its unusual composition," said Schleicher. "However, the only other comet to show depletion in the abundance of CN did not reach such high temperatures. This implies that CN depletion does not require the chemical reactions associated with extreme heat." Although comet 96P/Machholz 1 was first sighted in 1986 and orbits the sun with a period of slightly over five years, compositional measurements only took place during the comet's recent 2007 apparition. Lowell Observatory's program of compositional studies, currently headed by Schleicher, includes measurements of over 150 comets obtained during the past 33 years. This research is unique because it compares and contrasts Machholz 1 against this large database of 150 comets. In the early 1990s, Lowell Observatory's long-term program first identified the existence of two compositional classes of comets. One class, containing the majority of observed comets, has a composition called "typical." Most members of this typical class have long resided in the Oort Cloud at the very fringes of our Solar System but are believed to have originally formed amidst the giant planets, particularly between Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune. Other members of this compositional class arrived from the Kuiper Belt, located just beyond Neptune. The second compositional class of comets has varying depletions in two of the five chemical species measured. Since both depleted molecules, C2 and C3, are wholly composed of carbon atoms, this class was named "carbon-chain depleted." Moreover, nearly all comets in this second class have orbits consistent with their having arrived from the Kuiper Belt. For this and other reasons, the cause of the depletion is believed to be associated with the conditions that existed when the comets formed, perhaps within an outer, colder region of the Kuiper Belt. Comets are widely thought to be the most pristine objects available for detailed study remaining from the epoch of Solar System formation. As such, comets can be used as probes of the proto-planetary material that was incorporated into our Solar System. Differences in the current chemical composition among comets can indicate either differences in primordial conditions or evolutionary effects. Although the location of origin cannot be definitively determined for any single comet, Machholz 1's short orbital period means that astronomers can search for additional carbon-bearing molecular species during future apparitions. "If additional carbon-bearing species are also strongly depleted, then the case for its origin outside of our Solar System would be strengthened," said Schleicher. The next opportunity for observations will be in 2012. This research is supported by NASA's Planetary Astronomy and Planetary Atmospheres Programs. The study is published in the November issue of the Astronomical Journal. FOR MORE INFORMATION Scientific contact: David Schleicher (dgs at lowell.edu) (928) 233-3228 See a pdf of the report, Lowell Observatory Comet 96/P Machholz 1 Background About Lowell Observatory Lowell Observatory is a private, non-profit research institution founded in 1894 by Percival Lowell. The Observatory has been the site of many important findings including the discovery of the large recessional velocities (redshift) of galaxies by Vesto Slipher in 1912-1914 (a result that led ultimately to the realization the universe is expanding), and the discovery of Pluto by Clyde Tombaugh in 1930. Today, Lowell's 20 astronomers use ground-based telescopes around the world, telescopes in space, and NASA planetary spacecraft to conduct research in diverse areas of astronomy and planetary science. The Observatory welcomes more than 75,000 visitors each year to its Mars Hill campus in Flagstaff, Arizona for a variety of tours, telescope viewing, and special programs. Lowell Observatory currently has four research telescopes at its Anderson Mesa dark sky site east of Flagstaff, and is building a 4-meter class research telescope, the Discovery Channel Telescope, in partnership with Discovery Communications. CONTACT Steele Wotkyns steele at lowell.edu (928) 233-3232 end From mpg444 at yahoo.com Tue Dec 2 14:36:13 2008 From: mpg444 at yahoo.com (Mike Groetz) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 11:36:13 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Canadian Meteorite Composition? Message-ID: <740214.89311.qm@web33005.mail.mud.yahoo.com> The Statten Island news paper included this comment within their article: "While it's not yet known what kind of meteorite this one was, the fragments appear to be made of iron." Has anyone heard yet from the universities as to a preliminary composition? Mike From gmhupe at htn.net Tue Dec 2 15:24:39 2008 From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 15:24:39 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] eBay's Spyware and Cookies Message-ID: <183C4D72B2454E76B820E74C39CA7229@Gregor> Dear List Members, I was just cruising around eBay for about five minutes and my Internet Explorer popped up a message reading: "To help protect your security, Internet Explorer blocked this site from downloading files to your computer. Click here for options..." This pretty much confirms what I and others have said at the beginning of this thread, eBay IS downloading Spyware and Cookies on our computers. Looks like eBay wants to become Big Brother as well as a monopoly!! Be sure to run your Spyware and other software programs to rid your computers of their junk! Best regards, Greg ==================== Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmhupe at htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 ==================== Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault From bigpineartifacts at yahoo.com Tue Dec 2 15:36:55 2008 From: bigpineartifacts at yahoo.com (mckinney trammell) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 12:36:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] eBay's Spyware and Cookies In-Reply-To: <183C4D72B2454E76B820E74C39CA7229@Gregor> Message-ID: <283646.54661.qm@web53201.mail.re2.yahoo.com> wow. www.safernetworking.com for spybot S&D free downloads. just ran it, though AFTER ebay use and "no immed." threats found"? --- On Tue, 12/2/08, Greg Hupe wrote: > From: Greg Hupe > Subject: [meteorite-list] eBay's Spyware and Cookies > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Tuesday, December 2, 2008, 3:24 PM > Dear List Members, > > I was just cruising around eBay for about five minutes and > my Internet Explorer popped up a message reading: > "To help protect your security, Internet Explorer > blocked this site from downloading files to your computer. > Click here for options..." > > This pretty much confirms what I and others have said at > the beginning of this thread, eBay IS downloading Spyware > and Cookies on our computers. Looks like eBay wants to > become Big Brother as well as a monopoly!! > > Be sure to run your Spyware and other software programs to > rid your computers of their junk! > > Best regards, > Greg > > ==================== > Greg Hupe > The Hupe Collection > NaturesVault (eBay) > gmhupe at htn.net > www.LunarRock.com > IMCA 3163 > ==================== > Click here for my current eBay auctions: > http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From clp at alumni.caltech.edu Tue Dec 2 15:39:10 2008 From: clp at alumni.caltech.edu (Chris Peterson) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 13:39:10 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Canadian Meteorite Composition? References: <740214.89311.qm@web33005.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <94F4B412F8884B66B14FB2806B8FA512@bellatrix> The initial assessment from Hildebrand's group at the University of Calgary is an ordinary chondrite, type 5 or 6. Chris ***************************************** Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Groetz" To: "Meteorite List" Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 12:36 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Canadian Meteorite Composition? > The Statten Island news paper included this comment within their > article: > > "While it's not yet known what kind of meteorite this one was, the > fragments appear to be made of iron." > > Has anyone heard yet from the universities as to a preliminary > composition? > > Mike From clp at alumni.caltech.edu Tue Dec 2 15:50:00 2008 From: clp at alumni.caltech.edu (Chris Peterson) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 13:50:00 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] eBay's Spyware and Cookies References: <283646.54661.qm@web53201.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: There is no mechanism on a properly configured browser for a website to download software to your computer without your active consent. If you are using Internet Explorer (why would you?) it is possible to override the default setting and allow websites to quietly load ActiveX applications. But if you have your browser configured that way, eBay should be the least of your worries! Of course eBay uses cookies. Nearly every site does, and in the case of eBay they are essential to proper operation. If you are paranoid, you can always tell your browser to treat any eBay cookie as "session only", meaning they'll get automatically deleted when you shut down. Chris ***************************************** Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "mckinney trammell" To: ; "Greg Hupe" Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 1:36 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] eBay's Spyware and Cookies > wow. www.safernetworking.com for spybot S&D free downloads. just ran it, > though AFTER ebay use and "no immed." threats found"? > > > --- On Tue, 12/2/08, Greg Hupe wrote: > >> From: Greg Hupe >> Subject: [meteorite-list] eBay's Spyware and Cookies >> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> Date: Tuesday, December 2, 2008, 3:24 PM >> Dear List Members, >> >> I was just cruising around eBay for about five minutes and >> my Internet Explorer popped up a message reading: >> "To help protect your security, Internet Explorer >> blocked this site from downloading files to your computer. >> Click here for options..." >> >> This pretty much confirms what I and others have said at >> the beginning of this thread, eBay IS downloading Spyware >> and Cookies on our computers. Looks like eBay wants to >> become Big Brother as well as a monopoly!! >> >> Be sure to run your Spyware and other software programs to >> rid your computers of their junk! >> >> Best regards, >> Greg From m42protosun at aol.com Tue Dec 2 16:17:12 2008 From: m42protosun at aol.com (m42protosun at aol.com) Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2008 16:17:12 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] no pairings of the sikote-alin meteorite In-Reply-To: <741595.71233.qm@web57803.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <741595.71233.qm@web57803.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CB22DA7A399885-CB4-90D@WEBMAIL-DZ04.sysops.aol.com> Hello Steve, hello list my scientific researches point out that there could be a pairing between the Sikhote-Alin and the Veevers. Both have a lot of paired characteristics in petrology and chemistry. Apparently are both fragments of a mutual parent body. This body was destroyed in cyclopean collision which split even the core. The low Ir content shows that both meteorites are fragments of an outer area of the Ni-Fe core. The main commonalities are Name: Ir [ppm] Group kind Ni(%) Veever: 0,0280 IIAB Ogg 5,80 Sikhote-Alin: 0,0300 IIAB Ogg 5,90 Regards Uwe -----Urspr?ngliche Mitteilung----- Von: steve arnold An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Verschickt: Di., 2. Dez. 2008, 15:44 Thema: [meteorite-list] no pairings of the sikote-alin meteorite Good morning list.It just has to be a mess with all these nwa pairings with these brachinite's.Well a good thing for me.I do not have any brach's in my collection,only sikote-alin's here.So no pairings will ever be a hassle for this greatest of falls.I have to take this back.I do have a piece of eagle's nest,a small fragment,but still small.But the sikote-alin meteorite is by far the best of all the non rusting irons.I do have one small question.I have a few pieces that shows lite bubbling.What would tend to cause that? 0A Steve R.Arnold,Chicago! http://chicagometeorites.net/ ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ________________________________________________________________________ AOL eMail auf Ihrem Handy! Ab sofort k?nnen Sie auch unterwegs Ihre AOL email abrufen. Registrieren Sie sich jetzt kostenlos. From cynapse at charter.net Tue Dec 2 17:26:02 2008 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2008 17:26:02 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] eBay's Spyware and Cookies In-Reply-To: References: <283646.54661.qm@web53201.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Dec 2008 13:50:00 -0700, you wrote: >There is no mechanism on a properly configured browser for a website to >download software to your computer without your active consent. There is not an OS or browser avaiable that does not have security holes. Not only that, but there are multiple other applications that can be used to infect your system. Some known, but the ones you have to worry about are the ones that aren't known yet. You have a false sense of security. News from today: http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/240255/apple-recommends-security-software-for-mac-owners.html from a week back: http://goodgearguide.com.au/article/268492 from a month back: http://www.net-security.org/secworld.php?id=6715 others: http://blogs.zdnet.com/security/?p=1733 Jpegs? Not always safe. http://www.secureworks.com/research/threats/jpegvirus/ Video? Not always safe. http://ask-leo.com/can_i_get_a_virus_or_spyware_from_a_free_video_download.html Just because YOU can't imagine a way to get a virus/trojan/spyware into your computer doesn't mean that someone else can't imagine a way to get a virus/trojan/spyware into your computer. From clp at alumni.caltech.edu Tue Dec 2 17:50:30 2008 From: clp at alumni.caltech.edu (Chris Peterson) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 15:50:30 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] eBay's Spyware and Cookies References: <283646.54661.qm@web53201.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Serious security holes are increasingly rare, and increasingly being fixed before exploits appear. They don't represent a very big threat for people who keep their systems up-to-date and exercise a bit of common sense. In the context of this discussion, I am doubtful in the extreme that eBay is exploiting an unknown security hole to download software to their users' computers. Chris ***************************************** Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darren Garrison" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 3:26 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] eBay's Spyware and Cookies > On Tue, 2 Dec 2008 13:50:00 -0700, you wrote: > >>There is no mechanism on a properly configured browser for a website to >>download software to your computer without your active consent. > > There is not an OS or browser avaiable that does not have security holes. > Not > only that, but there are multiple other applications that can be used to > infect > your system. Some known, but the ones you have to worry about are the > ones that > aren't known yet. You have a false sense of security. > > News from today: > > http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/240255/apple-recommends-security-software-for-mac-owners.html > > from a week back: > > http://goodgearguide.com.au/article/268492 > > from a month back: > > http://www.net-security.org/secworld.php?id=6715 > > others: > > http://blogs.zdnet.com/security/?p=1733 > > Jpegs? Not always safe. > > http://www.secureworks.com/research/threats/jpegvirus/ > > Video? Not always safe. > > http://ask-leo.com/can_i_get_a_virus_or_spyware_from_a_free_video_download.html > > Just because YOU can't imagine a way to get a virus/trojan/spyware into > your > computer doesn't mean that someone else can't imagine a way to get a > virus/trojan/spyware into your computer. From bobadebt at ec.rr.com Tue Dec 2 19:23:14 2008 From: bobadebt at ec.rr.com (David & Kitt Deyarmin) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 19:23:14 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Art, Please contact me Message-ID: I don't know how to contact Art and I have a question for him so I hope he sees this From clp at alumni.caltech.edu Tue Dec 2 19:37:50 2008 From: clp at alumni.caltech.edu (Chris Peterson) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 17:37:50 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] eBay's Spyware and Cookies References: <283646.54661.qm@web53201.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1A643EEC378A490791B67BA45804E785@bellatrix> Tagasaurus is simple malware. It has no way to install itself on a properly configured system. You need to download and run something carrying it. In this respect it is no different from most other malware. Doubleclick and Mediaplex do not download executable code to your computer. All they do is set tracking cookies that are used to analyze your traffic patterns. They are harmless, but you may nevertheless consider them a violation of privacy. If so, it is trivial in any browser to either block those cookies, or convert them to session cookies. There is a big difference between setting a cookie and downloading some kind of monitoring software! If eBay were actually doing the latter, it would be all over the news. Chris ***************************************** Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "harlan trammell" To: ; Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 5:16 PM Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] eBay's Spyware and Cookies hitbox, tagasaurus, doubleclick, mediaplex, etc. ALL with AUTOMATICALLY UPLOAD themselves w/o your consent. they will reside in your unit until you discover+delete them. From raremeteorites at yahoo.com Tue Dec 2 20:33:38 2008 From: raremeteorites at yahoo.com (Adam Hupe) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 17:33:38 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Ebay Name Update Message-ID: <286158.99356.qm@web30701.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dear List Members, Just a quick note to let collectors know I have a new eBay name. The old name raremeteorites has been changed to raremeteorites! with an explanation mark (!) at the end. I had to change it due to eBay's policy about having the same name as your email address. Those of you who monitor my auctions, please update your bookmark. I will be loading up some great inventory in the upcoming weeks as I unpack it. Hopefully the link below will work. If not, I will try another one. Click below to see some great auctions: http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/raremeteorites!_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZQQ_mdoZ Thank you for looking and if you are bidding, the best of luck. Best Regards, Adam From fuzzfoot at comcast.net Tue Dec 2 20:36:12 2008 From: fuzzfoot at comcast.net (Mike%20Bandli) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 01:36:12 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [meteorite-list] Riker Storage Case? Need Help In-Reply-To: <1A643EEC378A490791B67BA45804E785@bellatrix> Message-ID: <180751795.1322471228268172795.JavaMail.root@sz0063a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> If anyone is aware of a storage or transport case specifically designed to hold or organize lots of Riker-style mounts, please email me off-list. Thank you! Mike Bandli From tett at rogers.com Tue Dec 2 22:24:51 2008 From: tett at rogers.com (tett) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 22:24:51 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] New Canadian Meteorite (Not the Fall!) References: <741595.71233.qm@web57803.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <8CB22DA7A399885-CB4-90D@WEBMAIL-DZ04.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8D3B52FCD97D43CDB5D57B0E4ECAE554@tett1> List, Not too much has been mentioned about the new Canadian iron to be found as most of the press has been given to the new fall in Lloydminster Sask.. Instead of driving from Edmonton two hours east to Saskatchewan you can drive about the same west to Whitecourt Alberta and see a newly discovered crater with lots of iron meteorites. It is now protected to help preserve the small crater which is too bad for meteorite hunters. Hopefully some science will be gained at the cost of keeping us out from gobbling up some nice irons. Apparently there are lots of Sikhote like irons to be found. Friends from the University of Western Ontario were out to Whitecourt last month and retrieved lots of material. A very exciting find because the crater is so very young and in great shape. An exciting time for Canadian meteorite enthusiasts. Here is more info: http://easweb.eas.ualberta.ca/page/108 Cheers! Mike Tettenborn One anxious Canadian meteorite enthusiast waiting for his piece of Lloydminster From grf2 at verizon.net Tue Dec 2 23:19:24 2008 From: grf2 at verizon.net (Jerry Flaherty) Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2008 23:19:24 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] no pairings of the sikote-alin meteorite References: <741595.71233.qm@web57803.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <8CB22DA7A399885-CB4-90D@WEBMAIL-DZ04.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Thanks Uwe, parent body reference is always an interesting aside if not the very essence of serious collectors. Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 4:17 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] no pairings of the sikote-alin meteorite Hello Steve, hello list my scientific researches point out that there could be a pairing between the Sikhote-Alin and the Veevers. Both have a lot of paired characteristics in petrology and chemistry. Apparently are both fragments of a mutual parent body. This body was destroyed in cyclopean collision which split even the core. The low Ir content shows that both meteorites are fragments of an outer area of the Ni-Fe core. The main commonalities are Name: Ir [ppm] Group kind Ni(%) Veever: 0,0280 IIAB Ogg 5,80 Sikhote-Alin: 0,0300 IIAB Ogg 5,90 Regards Uwe -----Urspr?ngliche Mitteilung----- Von: steve arnold An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Verschickt: Di., 2. Dez. 2008, 15:44 Thema: [meteorite-list] no pairings of the sikote-alin meteorite Good morning list.It just has to be a mess with all these nwa pairings with these brachinite's.Well a good thing for me.I do not have any brach's in my collection,only sikote-alin's here.So no pairings will ever be a hassle for this greatest of falls.I have to take this back.I do have a piece of eagle's nest,a small fragment,but still small.But the sikote-alin meteorite is by far the best of all the non rusting irons.I do have one small question.I have a few pieces that shows lite bubbling.What would tend to cause that? 0A Steve R.Arnold,Chicago! http://chicagometeorites.net/ ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ________________________________________________________________________ AOL eMail auf Ihrem Handy! Ab sofort k?nnen Sie auch unterwegs Ihre AOL email abrufen. Registrieren Sie sich jetzt kostenlos. ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From michael at spacerocksinc.com Wed Dec 3 00:18:28 2008 From: michael at spacerocksinc.com (Michael Johnson) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 21:18:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December 3, 2008 Message-ID: <2349758.1839731228281508982.JavaMail.root@mbs4.homesteadmail.com> http://rocksfromspace.org/December_3_2008.html From cynapse at charter.net Wed Dec 3 01:56:18 2008 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2008 01:56:18 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite video (probably) In-Reply-To: <2349758.1839731228281508982.JavaMail.root@mbs4.homesteadmail.com> References: <2349758.1839731228281508982.JavaMail.root@mbs4.homesteadmail.com> Message-ID: This site seems to have video showing the new Canadian meteorite find. I can't get it to play in Firefox 3, it plays the damn commercial with the meerkats and the Rube Goldberg device over and over, but never the meteorite video. But you can try your luck on the link. http://www.edmontonsun.com/News/Alberta/2008/11/28/7571236.html Looked for the video on Youtube, but all I found was an insane guy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VClt5fGXFlo From Carsten.Giessler at t-online.de Wed Dec 3 06:34:28 2008 From: Carsten.Giessler at t-online.de (Carsten Giessler) Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2008 12:34:28 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Capot Rey Big Brecciated Slice Message-ID: <49366EC4.1080004@t-online.de> Hello List, i have a nice 31.3g. slice of Capot Rey for sale. It has been cut from the IMB stone, and shows a beautiful breccia. Pics are here: http://www.gi-po.de/ebayfolder/sofort25.11/capimb/1.jpg http://www.gi-po.de/ebayfolder/sofort25.11/capimb/2.jpg http://www.gi-po.de/ebayfolder/sofort25.11/capimb/3.jpg http://www.gi-po.de/ebayfolder/sofort25.11/capimb/4.jpg If anyone is interested please contact me off-list. Thanks for viewing, Carsten From grf2 at verizon.net Wed Dec 3 09:24:39 2008 From: grf2 at verizon.net (Jerry Flaherty) Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2008 09:24:39 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite video (probably) References: <2349758.1839731228281508982.JavaMail.root@mbs4.homesteadmail.com> Message-ID: <2F16DE3B8E354C89AE1CFD64636DB975@ASUS> you're right. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darren Garrison" To: "Meteorite List" Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 1:56 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite video (probably) > This site seems to have video showing the new Canadian meteorite find. I > can't > get it to play in Firefox 3, it plays the damn commercial with the > meerkats and > the Rube Goldberg device over and over, but never the meteorite video. > But you > can try your luck on the link. > > http://www.edmontonsun.com/News/Alberta/2008/11/28/7571236.html > > Looked for the video on Youtube, but all I found was an insane guy. > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VClt5fGXFlo > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From bristolia at yahoo.com Wed Dec 3 10:26:01 2008 From: bristolia at yahoo.com (Paul) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 07:26:01 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] =?utf-8?q?Location_of_Australian_Opal_Miner?= =?utf-8?b?4oCZcyDigJxtZWdhIG1ldGVvcml0ZSBjcmF0ZXLigJ0=?= Message-ID: <204253.13333.qm@web36204.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In ?Opal miner stumbles on mega meteorite crater - With Picture?, Jason Utas wrote: ?http://www.theage.com.au/news/technology/biztech/opal-miner-stumbles-on-mega-meteorite-crater/2008/11/22/1226770814042.html ? Text of article deleted. For those people interested in Google Earth the location of this suspected carter is 30 degrees, 47.8 minutes, 8.94 seconds S., 143 degrees, 8 minutes, 43.05 seconds E. or -30.7858166667, 143.145291159 I have a kmz file that I can email interested parties. another article about this crater is: ?Opal miner fossicks up a mega meteorite crater? at: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/national/opal-miner-fossicks-up-a-mega-meteorite-crater/2008/11/22/1227375050742.html Some more articles about the Canadian meteorite crater. Meteorite hits on Earth: There may be a recount: Meteorite craters might not be as rare as we think. A University of Alberta researcher has found a tool that could reveal possibly hundreds of undiscovered craters across Canada and around the world. http://www.physorg.com/news146841660.html Unveiling hidden craters http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/39004/title/Unveiling_hidden_craters How Many Meteorites Have Landed In Western Canada? Prospects For The Missing Holocene Impact Record Science Daily, Dec. 1, 2008 http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/11/081126091541.htm More Meteorites May Hit Earth Than Supposed: New Tool Gives A Recount, Nov. 25, 2008 http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/11/081125141600.htm Yours, Paul H. From cynapse at charter.net Wed Dec 3 11:45:06 2008 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2008 11:45:06 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] The aliens are coming! In-Reply-To: <204253.13333.qm@web36204.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <204253.13333.qm@web36204.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Note the 2012 date, which all of the Mayan fin de si?cle nuts are going to go bannanas (uh, bannanaser) about. http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/081202-odd-comet.html Odd Comet Possibly from Another Star System By Jeanna Bryner Senior Writer posted: 02 December 2008 03:39 pm ET The bizarre chemical make-up of a comet suggests the blob of ice is an interloper, possibly flung into our solar system from beyond, astronomers now say, adding that the wacky comet is forcing them to create a new category for such objects. The comet, called Machholz 1, was discovered in 1986 by Donald Machholz of Loma Prieta, Calif. Since then, the icy denizen has made a few appearances, including one in 2007. "A large fraction of comets in our own solar system have escaped into interstellar space, so we expect that many comets formed around other stars would also have escaped," said David Schleicher, a planetary astronomer at Lowell Observatory in Arizona. "Some of these will have crossed paths with the sun, and Machholz 1 could be an interstellar interloper." The oddball, described in the November issue of the Astronomical Journal, could shed light on the formation and evolution of comets. These blobs of dust and frozen gases may be the oldest, most primitive bodies in the solar system. In fact, they hold the earliest record of material from the nebula that formed the sun and planets. Head measurements Schleicher measured the amounts of certain carbon and other compounds in the coma or head of Machholz 1 in 2007. He compared the composition with information from 150 other comets, finding that Machholz 1 had an odd make-up. Particularly, the comet contains much less of a carbon-nitrogen molecule called cyanogen, by a factor of about 72, compared with the average found in other comets. The comet also contained much less of two molecules called C2 and C3 (which have two and three atoms of carbon in their structures, respectively) than the average comet. Schleicher puts forth three scenarios that could be responsible for the odd chemistry, although no one explanation stands out as right on. "I'm not real thrilled with any of the three [scenarios]," Schleicher told SPACE.com. One possible explanation is that Machholz 1 did not originate in the solar system, but instead escaped from another star's gravity. In this scenario, the other star's proto-planetary disk (the disk of debris from which planets are thought to form) might have had a lower abundance of carbon, resulting in all carbon-bearing compounds having lower abundances. Several comets previously in our solar system have gotten the boot when their orbits came into contact with that of Jupiter, whose gravity kicked them out. Another possible explanation for Machholz 1's anomalous composition is that it formed inside the solar system but even farther from the sun in a colder or more extreme environment than other comets. A third possibility is that Machholz 1 originated as a so-called carbon-chain depleted comet, but that this chemistry was subsequently altered by extreme heat and so cyanogen was also depleted. While no other comet has exhibited changes in chemistry due to subsequent heating by the sun, Machholz 1's orbit takes the comet to well inside Mercury's orbit every five years. (Other comets get even closer to the sun, but not as often). "Since its orbit is unusual, we must be suspicious that repeated high temperature cooking might be the cause for its unusual composition," Schleicher said. However, he added, the only other comet, called Yanaka, to show less cyanogen than is typical never reached such high temperatures. "This implies that [cyanogen] depletion does not require the chemical reactions associated with extreme heat," Schleicher said. Class of its own The results place Machholz 1 into a new class of comets. Until now, astronomers have clumped comets into one of two classes based on their chemical compositions. Most comets, considered members of the "typical" class, have long resided in the Oort Cloud at the fringes of our solar system but are thought to have originally formed amidst the giant planets, particularly between Saturn, Uranus and Neptune. Other members of this class arrived from the Kuiper Belt, a region of icy objects beyond Neptune (but closer in than the Oort Cloud.) The second class includes comets with varying depletions of certain carbon molecules, including the C2 and C3 molecules. Nearly all of these comets (called carbon-chain depleted comets) have orbits that suggest they arrived from the Kuiper Belt. For this and other reasons, scientists think the carbon depletion is associated with conditions that existed when the comets formed, perhaps within an outer, colder region of the Kuiper Belt. The new class of comets, which would include Machholz 1 and possibly Yanaka, would be characterized by low levels of at least three carbon compounds ? C2, C3 and cyanogen. And as of now, these comets would be considered of unknown origin, Schleicher said. The comet, now bound in an orbit around the sun, is expected to come into view again in 2012, at which time Schleicher expects astronomers will point other instruments toward it to measure even more carbon-bearing molecules. This research was supported by NASA's Planetary Astronomy and Planetary Atmospheres Programs. http://www.iop.org/EJ/abstract/1538-3881/136/5/2204/ From meteoriteshow at free.fr Wed Dec 3 13:47:19 2008 From: meteoriteshow at free.fr (meteoriteshow at free.fr) Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2008 19:47:19 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Message-ID: <1228330039.4936d43799a1f@imp.free.fr> Dear All, As some of you may remember my ebay auctions end every saturday, but as some may have forgotten, i send this short note as a reminder... You can follow the link and have a look at the goodies that are available this week: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZmeteoriteshow Here is the list of the meteorites that you can find: 1- Al Haggounia 001 PRIM. AUB. - 7.7g Partslice 2- DAG 586 H5 - 126.0g MAIN MASS!!!! 3- HaH244 L5-6 - 26.1g full slice 4- NWA OC - FUSION CRUST - 39.3g indiv 5- NWA XXX - 0.3g Partslice - HOWARDITE 6- NWA XXX - 0.4g Partslice - HOWARDITE 7- SAH 03501 H4 - 69.3g endcut 8- ZAG H3-6 - 13.5g frag. - WITNESSED FALL! ALL THE BEST AND THANKS FOR LOOKING!!! Kind regards Frederic Beroud www.meteoriteshow.com IMCA #2491 From meteoriteshow at free.fr Wed Dec 3 14:04:14 2008 From: meteoriteshow at free.fr (meteoriteshow at free.fr) Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2008 20:04:14 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - ebay Auctions ending on Saturday Message-ID: <1228331054.4936d82e58029@imp.free.fr> Dear fellow listees, The title of my previous post was not complete and I hope that it didn't stop you to read the content. Just to make sure, here is the link again to my ebay auctions ending on Saturday: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZmeteoriteshow Thanks a sorry for this "double AD" which was not on purpose. Cheers Frederic Beroud www.meteoriteshow.com IMCA #2491 From geoking at notkin.net Wed Dec 3 17:18:18 2008 From: geoking at notkin.net (Notkin) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 15:18:18 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Geology.com Monthly Meteorite Column - December Message-ID: Dear Listees: The December episode of my monthly science column "Meteorwritings" is live on Geology.com: http://geology.com and click on the Imilac photo -- or -- http://geology.com/meteorites/value-of-meteorites.shtml December's feature is a guide to buying and collecting meteorites, aimed primarily at the novice. However, we took a set of a brand new, original photographs for the column, and I'd particularly like to invite you to view the 1.3 kg Sikhote-Alin with natural hole. Has to be one of the best I've ever seen. As always, comments are gratefully received. As the primary purpose of this column is to introduce meteorites and meteorite collecting to a general audience, I'd also welcome suggestions for future column topics that might appeal to a geologically-minded readership. The January column will be about impactites, so we've already got that one covered. Thank you for reading and best wishes from Tucson, Geoff N. www.aerolite.org www.campometeorites.com From mikewren at gilanet.com Wed Dec 3 18:27:54 2008 From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 16:27:54 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: AUCTIONS ENDING IN A FEW HOURS>>>>EBAY STORE SALE TOO! HIGHLIGHTS! References: <041C91D6-04DB-48C6-9488-B59748805AAB@gilanet.com> Message-ID: <6964F762-72A9-4CDB-8EFE-77768B413152@gilanet.com> > > > >> Hello, > > Worth A Look! >> >>> >>> Store Link For All: >>> >>> http://stores.ebay.com/voyage-botanica-natural-history >>> >>> >>> >>> Special Highlights: >>> >>> METEORITE Super Fine ESQUEL, Pallasite Slice, 20.48g >>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200280442107 >>> >>> METEORITE NWA 2621, L4, Really Nice, 206 gram CS >>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200280441048 >>> >>> Very Rare Brachinite, NWA 3151, 0.348 gram, nice specimen! >>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200280427033 >>> >>> Awesome"Hammer Stone" WORDEN, Michigan, .358g >>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200280422643 >>> >>> BRENHAM, Siderite From Kansas, 14.72 gram, Check this one out! >>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200280427026 >>> >>> Very Beautiful FUKANG, Pallasite 18.03 gram, LAST ONE I HAVE! >>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200280427010 >>> >>> Rare Ungrouped OC3, NWA 4294, 3.74 gram >>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200280424590 >>> >>> Superb Campo Del Cielo Complete Slice, 582g, A Really Nice Slice! >>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200280422649 >>> >>> Beautiful L3, SAHARA 02500, 65.63 gram, My last slice to offer! >>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200280422640 >>> >>> Super Rare GEORGETOWN, Australia, 12.89 gram, Down to my last! >>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200278532483 >>> >>> Beautiful Flight Oriented Gao-Guenie, H5, 16g >>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200278533724 >>> >>> Ungrouped Ataxite, DRONINO, Russia, 850g, nice endcut! >>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200277463181 >>> >>> (NEW) NWA 4851, L6 With Shock Lines, 38 Gram, A real beauty! >>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200278531242 >>> >>> Very Rare and Beautiful, NWA 801, CR2, 6.00g, Check This One Out! >>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200277236027 >>> >>> A very Rare EL3 From Africa, NWA 2965, 216g... >>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200277236018 >>> >>> RARE, SILVERTON, Texas, H4, LTKW, 0.61 gram, I only have a couple... >>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200277236002 >>> >>> Meteorite (NEW), NWA 4953, L/LL6, LKW, 44.29 gram >>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200278534257 >>> >>> METEORITE CANYON DIABLO Individual, 170 gram... >>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200278535428 >>> >>> (New) Martian Shergottite, NWA 4925, "Mars"... >>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200278531866 >>> >>> Meteorite (New) NWA 4734, Lunar Specimen Display! >>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200277536177 >>> >>> If You Got The Cash...invest in this one! >>> METEORITE Complete Slice of DAR AL GANI 400, Lunar, 33g >>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200280547533 > >>> Classic GOLD BASIN, Arizona, L4, 17.25 gram > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200277236009 > > (New) Martian Shergottite, NWA 4925, "Mars" > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200278531866 > > > > and sooooooo many others to check out! >>> >>> >>> Best Wishes and Thanks >>> >>> Michael Cottingham >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From bristolia at yahoo.com Wed Dec 3 23:25:39 2008 From: bristolia at yahoo.com (Paul) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 20:25:39 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] IAG Planetary Geomorphology Featured Images Message-ID: <71794.2777.qm@web36208.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Past Featured Images, Arranged by Place and by Topic http://www.psi.edu/pgwg/images/bytopic.html Past Featured Images, Image index http://www.psi.edu/pgwg/images/index.html Some Examples: Inverted Paleochannels on Earth and Mars http://www.psi.edu/pgwg/images/may08image.html Unconsolidated Gravels on Asteroid Itokawa http://www.psi.edu/pgwg/images/nov07image.html Deltaic sediments on Mars http://www.psi.edu/pgwg/images/oct08image.html high resolution image of Mars delta ttp://www.psi.edu/pgwg/images/jezerodelta.jpg Yours, Paul H. From michael at spacerocksinc.com Thu Dec 4 06:21:42 2008 From: michael at spacerocksinc.com (Michael Johnson) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 03:21:42 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December 4, 2008 Message-ID: <14886733.1981661228389702783.JavaMail.root@mbs4.homesteadmail.com> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/December_4_2008.html From Carsten.Giessler at t-online.de Thu Dec 4 06:35:43 2008 From: Carsten.Giessler at t-online.de (Carsten Giessler) Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2008 12:35:43 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture Message-ID: <4937C08F.20401@t-online.de> Hello Tom, this one looks incredible, very beautiful! Thanks for showing the pics! Many greetings Carsten From freequarks at gmail.com Thu Dec 4 08:34:13 2008 From: freequarks at gmail.com (Dark Matter) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 06:34:13 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Geology.com Monthly Meteorite Column - December In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <822da19a0812040534m16e45fc1ia40bd1d2d29e63d0@mail.gmail.com> Bravo Geoff! Very well done. I appreciate your condensed and to the point presentation of meteorite collecting in a nutshell. I have a presentation on meteorites at the National Science Teachers Association's national conference in New Orleans this coming spring. I'll be covering more about meteorites than collecting them, but when I've done such things in the past, collecting seems to be a primary interest of those who attend a session about meteorites. I intend to steer the attendees to your geology.com meteorite collecting article. Regarding future topics, I often intersect the path of professional geologists when it comes to two main topics One is whether something is a meteorite or not (almost always a no-brainer-not, of course), and the second is in their desire to know where a meteorite comes from in space, and how a particular space rock can be paired with its parent body in space. Oh, nice Harrison slice. Where'd you get it? (;- ) Best, Martin On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 3:18 PM, Notkin wrote: > Dear Listees: > > > The December episode of my monthly science column "Meteorwritings" is live > on Geology.com: > > http://geology.com and click on the Imilac photo > > -- or -- > > http://geology.com/meteorites/value-of-meteorites.shtml > > > December's feature is a guide to buying and collecting meteorites, aimed > primarily at the novice. However, we took a set of a brand new, original > photographs for the column, and I'd particularly like to invite you to view > the 1.3 kg Sikhote-Alin with natural hole. Has to be one of the best I've > ever seen. > > As always, comments are gratefully received. As the primary purpose of this > column is to introduce meteorites and meteorite collecting to a general > audience, I'd also welcome suggestions for future column topics that might > appeal to a geologically-minded readership. The January column will be about > impactites, so we've already got that one covered. > > > Thank you for reading and best wishes from Tucson, > > Geoff N. > > www.aerolite.org > www.campometeorites.com > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From darryl at dof3.com Thu Dec 4 08:41:09 2008 From: darryl at dof3.com (Darryl Pitt) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 08:41:09 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture In-Reply-To: <4937C08F.20401@t-online.de> References: <4937C08F.20401@t-online.de> Message-ID: <9D2994F4-48CC-4F47-9896-A14EAAC3EFC4@dof3.com> Yes, nothing like a fresh zenolith to get the heart a twitter..... WoW. On Dec 4, 2008, at 6:35 AM, Carsten Giessler wrote: > Hello Tom, > > this one looks incredible, very beautiful! > Thanks for showing the pics! > > Many greetings > > Carsten > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From cynapse at charter.net Thu Dec 4 11:44:05 2008 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2008 11:44:05 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Scratch that 250 gram "main mass" In-Reply-To: <71794.2777.qm@web36208.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <71794.2777.qm@web36208.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: There's a (lousy) photo on the page. How do you get drool stains off a keyboard? http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20081204/meteorite_update_081204/20081204?hub=SciTech Prairie resident finds big chunk of meteorite Updated Thu. Dec. 4 2008 11:04 AM ET CTV.ca News Staff People are calling it the "Big Kahuna" -- a 13-kilogram meteorite that landed in Buzzard Coulee, Sask. two weeks ago. Amateur meteorite hunter Les Johnson says it's "blind luck" that he found the Big Kahuna about five kilometres from the pond where University of Calgary professor Alan Hildebrand and graduate student Ellen Milley first found 10 such space rock fragments near Lloydminster, Alta. on November 27. At the time, the university researchers reported that they believed more fragments were strewn across a 20-square-kilometre area near the Battle River. That's where Johnson got his cue on where to look for the fallen meteorites, which fell to Earth during the meteor event that was seen across several Prairie provinces on November 20. "Just blind luck really," Johnson told CTV Edmonton. "I was out searching for several days and we heard Dr. Hildebrand and his team had found some things further north, so I thought we'd better come out on this side of the river and have a look." The Big Kahuna, Johnson said, "has got some heft to it." At present, dozens of meteorite fragments have been recovered since November 20. Robert Haag, an Arizona meteorite collector, promised $10,000 to the first person who found a kilogram-sized fragment. Canada's largest meteorite shower took in Bruderheim, Alta., when more than 700 fragments were recovered in 1960. With a report from CTV Edmonton and files from The Canadian Press From epgrondine at yahoo.com Thu Dec 4 11:56:36 2008 From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 08:56:36 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Iron impactors? Message-ID: <150603.5028.qm@web36902.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi all - Let's look at the list: Sikote Aliin Whitecourt Brenham (yeah, pallasite, I know) Campo de Cielo Barringer Crater Odessa Now through my stroke damaged brain I seem to recall that irons compose a small percentage of meteorites, I am wondering, was an iron parent body disrupted, leading to large iron impacts? E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas From meteoriteplaya at gmail.com Thu Dec 4 12:02:38 2008 From: meteoriteplaya at gmail.com (Mike Jensen) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 10:02:38 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Scratch that 250 gram "main mass" In-Reply-To: References: <71794.2777.qm@web36208.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6f9da8300812040902p71d7f55dha155c60e19262b53@mail.gmail.com> Hi Darren and list Here is a video news story with somewhat better view of the "big kahuna" http://watch.ctv.ca/news/latest/more-meteorites/#clip117132 If you keep watching other related clips will be shown as well. Mike -- Mike Jensen Meteorites 16730 E Ada PL Aurora, CO 80017-3137 USA 720-949-6220 IMCA 4264 website: www.jensenmeteorites.com On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 9:44 AM, Darren Garrison wrote: > There's a (lousy) photo on the page. > > How do you get drool stains off a keyboard? > > http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20081204/meteorite_update_081204/20081204?hub=SciTech > > Prairie resident finds big chunk of meteorite > > Updated Thu. Dec. 4 2008 11:04 AM ET > > CTV.ca News Staff > > People are calling it the "Big Kahuna" -- a 13-kilogram meteorite that landed in > Buzzard Coulee, Sask. two weeks ago. > > Amateur meteorite hunter Les Johnson says it's "blind luck" that he found the > Big Kahuna about five kilometres from the pond where University of Calgary > professor Alan Hildebrand and graduate student Ellen Milley first found 10 such > space rock fragments near Lloydminster, Alta. on November 27. > > At the time, the university researchers reported that they believed more > fragments were strewn across a 20-square-kilometre area near the Battle River. > > That's where Johnson got his cue on where to look for the fallen meteorites, > which fell to Earth during the meteor event that was seen across several Prairie > provinces on November 20. > > "Just blind luck really," Johnson told CTV Edmonton. > > "I was out searching for several days and we heard Dr. Hildebrand and his team > had found some things further north, so I thought we'd better come out on this > side of the river and have a look." > > The Big Kahuna, Johnson said, "has got some heft to it." > > At present, dozens of meteorite fragments have been recovered since November 20. > > Robert Haag, an Arizona meteorite collector, promised $10,000 to the first > person who found a kilogram-sized fragment. > > Canada's largest meteorite shower took in Bruderheim, Alta., when more than 700 > fragments were recovered in 1960. > > With a report from CTV Edmonton and files from The Canadian Press > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Thu Dec 4 12:44:17 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 09:44:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Next NASA Mars Mission Rescheduled for 2011 (MSL) Message-ID: <200812041744.JAA23985@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2008/dec/HQ_08-319_MSL_2011.html Dwayne Brown Headquarters, Washington 202-358-1726 dwayne.c.brown at nasa.gov Guy Webster Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. 818-354-6278 guy.webster at jpl.nasa.gov Dec. 04, 2008 RELEASE : 08-319 Next NASA Mars Mission Rescheduled for 2011 WASHINGTON -- NASA's Mars Science Laboratory will launch two years later than previously planned, in the fall of 2011. The mission will send a next-generation rover with unprecedented research tools to study the early environmental history of Mars. A launch date of October 2009 no longer is feasible because of testing and hardware challenges that must be addressed to ensure mission success. The window for a 2009 launch ends in late October. The relative positions of Earth and Mars are favorable for flights to Mars only a few weeks every two years. The next launch opportunity after 2009 is in 2011. "We will not lessen our standards for testing the mission's complex flight systems, so we are choosing the more responsible option of changing the launch date," said Doug McCuistion, director of the Mars Exploration Program at NASA Headquarters in Washington. "Up to this point, efforts have focused on launching next year, both to begin the exciting science and because the delay will increase taxpayers' investment in the mission. However, we've reached the point where we can not condense the schedule further without compromising vital testing." The Mars Science Laboratory team recently completed an assessment of the progress it has made in the past three months. As a result of the team's findings, the launch date was changed. "Despite exhaustive work in multiple shifts by a dedicated team, the progress in recent weeks has not come fast enough on solving technical challenges and pulling hardware together," said Charles Elachi, director of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif. "The right and smart course now for a successful mission is to launch in 2011." The advanced rover is one of the most technologically challenging interplanetary missions ever designed. It will use new technologies to adjust its flight while descending through the Martian atmosphere, and to set the rover on the surface by lowering it on a tether from a hovering descent stage. Advanced research instruments make up a science payload 10 times the mass of instruments on NASA's Spirit and Opportunity Mars rovers. The Mars Science Laboratory is engineered to drive longer distances over rougher terrain than previous rovers. It will employ a new surface propulsion system. Rigorous testing of components and systems is essential to develop such a complex mission and prepare it for launch. Tests during the middle phases of development resulted in decisions to re-engineer key parts of the spacecraft. "Costs and schedules are taken very seriously on any science mission," said Ed Weiler, associate administrator for NASA's Science Mission Directorate at NASA Headquarters. "However, when it's all said and done, the passing grade is mission success." The mission will explore a Mars site where images taken by NASA's orbiting spacecraft indicate there were wet conditions in the past. Four candidate landing sites are under consideration. The rover will check for evidence of whether ancient Mars environments had conditions favorable for supporting microbial life and preserving evidence of that life if it existed there. NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory manages the Mars Science Laboratory project for the Science Mission Directorate. For more information about the Mars Science Laboratory, visit: http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl - end - From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Thu Dec 4 14:06:35 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 11:06:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Conference: Asteroid-Comet Hazard - 2009 Message-ID: <200812041906.LAA28140@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://www.ipa.nw.ru/conference/ach2009/ International conference Asteroid-Comet Hazard - 2009 September 21-25, 2009 St. Petersburg, Russia First announcement About conference The Russian Academy of Sciences, the Russian Foundation for Basic Research, Saint Petersburg Scientific Center of RAS, the Institute of Applied Astronomy of RAS invite you to participate in the International scientific conference ?Asteroid-Comet Hazard-2009? which will be held 21-25 September 2009 in St. Petersburg. The purposes of the conference are to provide a common forum for experts of diverse background and disciplines to come and exchange information and ideas, to recommend subsequent development of research, to attract public attention to severe hazard due to asteroids and comets approaching the Earth and necessity of more active international cooperation of the research directed to protection of civilization from this hazard. Topics to be discussed It is supposed to discuss the next topics: 1. Study of small bodies of the Solar system (physics, dynamics, origin and evolution of asteroids, comets, meteoroids). 2. Asteroid-comet hazard (origin and dynamic evolution of objects approaching the Earth, observations, physical properties, cataloguing, data bases, estimation of collision probability with the Earth and other bodies). 3. Collisions of cosmic bodies with the Earth (study of the traces of past catastrophes, modeling of collisions and their consequences, the threshold for global catastrophe). 4. Counteraction (discovering hazardous cosmic objects, methods and means of acting upon near-Earth objects, organization of passive and active counteracting the asteroid and comet impacts, the technologies to address the study of asteroids and comets in near-Earth space, missions to hazardous bodies). 5. International-legal aspects of counteracting the impact hazard. Collaboration of different countries in solving the problem. Dealing with mass-media. Program committee Finkelstein ?.?. (Chairman) Institute of Applied Astronomy of RAS, Russia Shor V.A. (Vice-chairman) Institute of Applied Astronomy of RAS, Russia Medvedev Yu.D. (Scientific secretary) Institute of Applied Astronomy of RAS, Russia Adushkin V.V. Geospheres Dynamics Institute of RAS, Russia Akim E.L. Keldysh Institute of Applied Mathematics of RAS, Russia Emelyanov V.A. TSNIIMASH, Federal Space Agency, Russia Fortov V.?. Institute for High Energy Densities of RAS, Russia Harris A. Space Science Institute, Boulder, CO, USA Lupishko D.F. Institute of Astronomy of Karazin Kharkov University, Ukraine Marov M.Ya. Keldysh Institute of Applied Mathematics of RAS, Russia Marsden B. Minor Planet Center, USA Milani A. University of Piza, Italy Muinonen K. Helsinki University, Finland Pittich E. Slovak Academy of Sciences, Slovakia Pol' V.G. Lavochkin Scientific-Production Association, Russia Rickman H. University of Uppsala, Sweden Rykhlova L.V. Astronomical Institute of RAS, Russia Shustov B.M. Astronomical Institute of RAS, Russia Simonenko V.A. Russian Federal Nuclear Center - E.I. Zababakhin Institute of Technical Physics, Russia Sukhanov K.G. Lavochkin Scientific-Production Association, Russia Yatskiv Ya.S. Main Astronomical Observatory of National Academy of Sciences of Ukraine, Ukraine Yeomans D. NASA Near Earth Object Program Office, USA Zajtsev A.V. Planetary Defense Center, Russia Local organizing committee Medvedev Yu.D. - Chairman Chernetenko Yu.?. - Vice-chairman Shuygina N.V. - Secretary Bondarenko Yu.S. Lysenkov E.A. Sal'nikov A.I. Valyaev V.I. Zabotin A.S. Phone: (812) 275-10-15 (Nadezhda V. Shuygina) FAX: (812) 275-11-19 E-mail address: mail (Please, in all email correspondence, use in the Subject field, 'ACH-2009') Format of the Conference Languages of the conference are English and Russian. Abstracts of papers, in case they are written in Russian, should have detailed summary in English. Contributed paper can be submitted for oral presentation or as poster. Depending upon the number of papers offered, it is hoped to provide 30 minutes for invited papers and 15 minutes for contributed ones, including discussion. For oral presentation a multimedia projector will be in your disposition. Area up to 0.6 square meter will be provided for poster (9 pages of A4 format). Submitted papers are reviewed by the Program Committee and selected on the basis of their suitability for inclusion in the program. The Committee reserves the right to reject paper or to change form of its presentation. Papers will not be accepted for reading "in absentia". It is supposed that Proceedings of the Conference will be published soon after the end of the Conference. Abstracts of papers must be submitted by May 15, 2009 in electronic form. Registration fee The registration fee is 3000 Rubles (approximately 120 USD or 85 EURO) for participants and 1500 Rubles for accompanying persons. It should be paid in cash while registration. Registration fee does not include travel expenses, accommodation and other expenses of the participant. Accommodation Participants of the conference will be accommodated in the hotels of St. Petersburg. Detailed information about prices in the hotels will appear in the second announcement. Cultural program The conference will be hosted by the Institute of Applied Astronomy. Building of the Institute is situated close to historical center of St. Petersburg. St. Petersburg is one of the most beautiful cities of the world, which celebrated three-hundredth anniversary. Numerous architectural ensembles of the city and its suburbs, bridges and embankments of Neva river and canals form inimitable in its beauty appearance of the city. World-wide known museums, first of all, Hermitage and Russian museum, possess unique collections of works of art and world masterpieces. There are dozens theatres in St. Petersburg, including Mariinsky theatre of opera and ballet. Participants of the conference will have opportunity to attend museums and theatres, to have excursions to palace ensembles in St. Petersburg suburbs. Important dates 25 October 2008 First announcement 1 March 2009 Registration 10 March 2009 Second announcement 15 May 2009 Submission of abstracts 15 June 2009 Third announcement. Program of the Conference. 21-25 September 2009 The Conference ACH-2009 Registration We ask to inform us about your intention to participate in the conference. Please fill in on-line form at http://www.ipa.nw.ru/conference/ach2009/profile/ (preferable way) or send the following registration form to the LOC: ahazard at ipa.nw.ru before 1 March, 2009: Family name First name Second name Scientific degree Country Affiliation Affiliation (short form) Position Postal address Phone FAX E-mail address Title of paper Type of presentation (oral/poster) We are looking forward to seeing all of you here in St. Petersburg. From mexicodoug at aim.com Thu Dec 4 14:37:42 2008 From: mexicodoug at aim.com (mexicodoug at aim.com) Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2008 14:37:42 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Meteorite Sandpaper *Super Deal* Message-ID: <8CB245EE8F27983-E60-513@WEBMAIL-DZ02.sysops.aol.com> Dear List, In the spirit of getting to a mirror finish for 2008: 1 set: $ 6.99 US domestic postage paid !!! 2 sets: $11.99 US domestic postage paid !!! 3 sets: $15.99 US domestic postage paid !!! 4 sets: $19.49 US domestic postage paid !!! Paypal to my email address. Each set contains: one 100 grit 9"x11" sheet one 220 grit 9"x11" sheet one 400 grit 9"x11" sheet one 600 grit 9"x11" sheet one 800 grit 9"x11" sheet one 1200 grit 9"x11" sheet They are European-made carbide (wet/dry) great quality sand paper for the collector who loves caring for meteorites and giving them your own shine so bright, to make any Nakhla dog salivate. I will ship these from the USA. International ask me for a postage quote (probably $2-$3 per set). Perfect to create a variety of nice finishes -Stony meteorites -Mesosiderites -(even) Iron meteorites Professional results Mirror-finished chondrites and achondrites slices. Preparation for the surface to be etched. Not difficult or time consuming for one piece. Great at home for modest to moderate needs. Clean material for a nickel test without wasting too much metal. Great in the field to window a specimen. Why buy, dirty a flat lap? better to pay as you go first. Save dirtying a saw on appropriately shaped pieces with slice or end cut potential :) Can cut to fit small power sanders if you are out of elbow grease. Useful to polish gravel dings in the paint of your meteorite-hunting Ferrari. The offer can't be beat. Best wishes and Great Health, Doug From geoking at notkin.net Thu Dec 4 15:16:21 2008 From: geoking at notkin.net (Notkin) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 13:16:21 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] [AD] Super Sikhote-Alins, eBay "Meteorite" mag, etc. Message-ID: <42F84E59-5D9F-46BE-BEF8-4AF7D9C1BC9A@notkin.net> Dear Listees: Greetings and many thanks to those of you who kindly commented on this month's "Meteorwritings" column. A few items of interest: I recently acquired a collection of super excellent Sikhote-Alin individuals. These are among the best I've ever seen, and I've put them together on one special page. Several have small natural holes and all have fabulous sculptural shapes. Definitely worth a look: http://www.aerolite.org/sikhote-alin-meteorites.htm We've also redesigned our entire sale catalogue and added many new pieces, including some Glenn Huss specimens with original collection numbers and matching AML labels, moldavites, Libyan Desert Glass, a couple of small Brenhams, and some oriented Tazas: http://www.aerolite.org/meteorites-for-sale.htm All new additions can be viewed on one page here: http://www.aerolite.org/new.htm On the eBay front, I have super rare copies of "Meteorite" and "Voyage" magazines ending tonight: "Meteorite": http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160301286251 "Voyage": http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170282651870 The August 2004 issue of "M" includes my all-time favorite published story, "Lingua Franconia," about my first visit to the Franconia strewnfield in the company of the late, great Jim Kriegh. On that one amazing weekend I met meteorite hunters Sonny Clary, Ruben Garcia, and Mike Miller for the first time. And we've all had quite a few adventures together since then : ) The "Voyage" issue includes a Rob Elliott article about hunting at Holbrook. Ending on Sunday is a whole batch of stuff including a lovely brecciated part slice of Dar al Gani 956: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170282631693 A cute crusted Allende: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170282364822 A cool collector's set of six different iron meteorites: Sikhote-Alin, Henbury, Gibeon, Taza, Mundrabilla and Campo del Cielo http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170283612602 And Bensour, Juancheng, Gao, some nice NWA 869 individuals, etc. All items up for auction can be seen here: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ25QQsassZaerolitemeteorites Instant recap with photos live and direct from Jedi webmaster Paul Harris at Meteorite.com: http://www.meteorite.com/meteorite-dealers/dealer-listings/aerolite.htm As always, all my auctions are NO RESERVE. Thank you for looking and if you have any questions you can now call Aerolite toll-free at: 888 SKY ROXX Regards to all from sunny Tucson, Geoff N. www.aerolite.org www.campometeorites.com From p.marmet at sunrise.ch Thu Dec 4 15:41:55 2008 From: p.marmet at sunrise.ch (Peter Marmet) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 21:41:55 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - NWA 3081 (CK5/6), NWA 4734 (stunning Lunar) Message-ID: <871799a20812041241q158850at8038a693354c68e9@mail.gmail.com> Hello All, On ebay I have a big (3.8 g) slice of NWA 3081, a rare CK5/6 (only 653 g outside Antarctica!). BTW: If interested, I also have a great - professionally made - thin section (USD 100.00) for sale. On ebay I also have two great thin slices of NWA 4734, the stunning shergottite-like LUNAR, for a very nice price. Please click here for NWA 3081 and NWA 4734: http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/pema9_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZQQ_mdoZ Thank you, Peter, IMCA 2747 http://www.marmet-meteorites.com/ From parkforestmet at hotmail.com Thu Dec 4 16:35:15 2008 From: parkforestmet at hotmail.com (bill kies) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 15:35:15 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorites, Elements and The Periodic Table Message-ID: I understand that many mineral constituents of meteorites are regarded as still unrepresented among native terrestrial products. Are there any elements that are unique to meteorites? _________________________________________________________________ Send e-mail faster without improving your typing skills. http://windowslive.com/Explore/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_speed_122008 From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Thu Dec 4 17:34:27 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 14:34:27 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] MRO HiRISE Images - November 26, 2008 Message-ID: <200812042234.OAA06056@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> MARS RECONNAISSANCE ORBITER HIRISE IMAGES November 26, 2008 o Yardangs in South Amazonis http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_010334_1760 o Volcanic Fissure Vent in Elysium Planitia http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_010269_1900 o Aeolian Features, Large and Small http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_010221_1420 o Complex Terrain East of Holden Crater http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_010197_1540 o Hydraotes Chaos http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_009709_1810 o Meander in Valley Network http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_009706_2125 o Student Image of the Week: Kasei Valles http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_006005_2050 All of the HiRISE images are archived here: http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ Information about the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter is online at http://www.nasa.gov/mro. The mission is managed by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, a division of the California Institute of Technology, for the NASA Science Mission Directorate, Washington, D.C. Lockheed Martin Space Systems, of Denver, is the prime contractor and built the spacecraft. HiRISE is operated by the University of Arizona. Ball Aerospace and Technologies Corp., of Boulder, Colo., built the HiRISE instrument. From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Thu Dec 4 17:38:49 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 14:38:49 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Return of the Leonids Message-ID: <200812042238.OAA07452@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2008/04dec_leonids2009.htm Return of the Leonids NASA Science News 12.04.2008 Dec. 4, 2008: Astronomers from Caltech and NASA say a strong shower of Leonid meteors is coming in 2009. Their prediction follows an outburst on Nov. 17, 2008, that broke several years of "Leonid quiet" and heralds even more intense activity next November. "On Nov. 17, 2009, we expect the Leonids to produce upwards of 500 meteors per hour," says Bill Cooke of the NASA Marshall Space Flight Center. "That's a very strong display." Forecasters define a meteor storm as 1000 or more meteors per hour. That would make the 2009 Leonids "a half-storm," says Jeremie Vaubaillon of Caltech, who successfully predicted a related outburst just a few weeks ago. On Nov. 17, 2008, Earth passed through a stream of debris from comet 55P/Tempel-Tuttle. The gritty, dusty debris stream was laid down by the Leonids' parent comet more than five hundred years ago in 1466. Almost no one expected the old stream to produce a very strong shower, but it did. Observers in Asia and Europe counted as many as 100 meteors per hour. Vaubaillon predicted the crossing with one-hour precision. "I have a computer program that calculates the orbits of Leonid debris streams," he explains. "It does a good job anticipating encounters even with very old streams like this one." The Nov. 17, 2008 outburst proved that the 1466 stream is rich in meteor-producing debris, setting the stage for an even better display in 2009. On Nov. 17, 2009, Earth will pass through the 1466 stream again, but this time closer to the center. Based on the number of meteors observed in 2008, Vaubaillon can estimate the strength of the coming display: five hundred or more Leonids per hour during a few-hour peak centered on 21:43 UT. "Our own independent model of the debris stream agrees," says Cooke. "We predict a sub-storm level outburst on Nov. 17, 2009, peaking sometime between 21:34 and 21:44 UT." The timing favors observers in Asia, although Cooke won't rule out a nice show over North America when darkness falls hours after the peak. "I hope so," he says. "It's a long way to Mongolia." Many readers will remember the great Leonid showers of 1998-2002. The best years (1999 and 2001) produced storms of up to 3000 Leonids per hour. The 2009 display won't be so intense. Instead, if predictions are correct, next year's shower could resemble the 1998 Leonids, a "half-storm"-level event caused by a stream dating from 1333. That old stream turned out to be rich in nugget-sized debris that produced an abundance of fireballs. Many observers consider the 1998 Leonids to be the best they've ever seen. Could 2009 be the same? Vaubaillon expects a similar number of meteors but fewer fireballs. If the models are correct, the 1466 stream in Earth???s path contains plenty of dust but not so many nuggets, thus reducing the fireball count. On the bright side, the Moon will be new next Nov. 17th so nothing will stand in the way of the shower reaching its full potential. Mark your calendar and stay tuned for updates from Science at NASA. From fuzzfoot at comcast.net Thu Dec 4 19:02:01 2008 From: fuzzfoot at comcast.net (Mike Bandli) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 00:02:01 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Beautiful Meteorite Auctions In-Reply-To: <8CB245EE8F27983-E60-513@WEBMAIL-DZ02.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <1662508162.1699001228435321055.JavaMail.root@sz0063a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/astroartifacts Well, it is time to raise a little extra cash for upcoming Tucson expenses. I have nine fantastic meteorites ending this weekend. There is something for all types of collections and most are still at bargain prices. Please take a look if you have time: http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/astroartifacts Cheers, Mike Bandli From epgrondine at yahoo.com Thu Dec 4 19:02:20 2008 From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 16:02:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Aliens coming Message-ID: <278508.34060.qm@web36907.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi - If you think that this is going to be used by the 2012 con men, wait until you see what they do with Comet Schwasmann Wachmann 3's return in 2011. E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Thu Dec 4 19:26:40 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 16:26:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] MRO Finds Martian Rock Record With 10 Beats to the Bar Message-ID: <200812050026.QAA12669@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2008-227 NASA Orbiter Finds Martian Rock Record With 10 Beats to the Bar Jet Propulsion Laboratory December 04, 2008 PASADENA, Calif. -- Climate cycles persisting for millions of years on ancient Mars left a record of rhythmic patterns in thick stacks of sedimentary rock layers, revealed in three-dimensional detail by a telescopic camera on NASA's Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter. Researchers using the High Resolution Imaging Science Experiment camera report the first measurement of a periodic signal in the rocks of Mars. This pushes climate-cycle fingerprints much earlier in Mars' history than more recent rhythms seen in Martian ice layers. It also may rekindle debates about some patterns of rock layering on Earth. Layers of similar thickness repeat dozens to hundreds of times in rocks exposed inside four craters in the Arabia Terra region of Mars. In one of the craters, Becquerel, bundles of a 10-layer pattern repeat at least 10 times, which could correspond to a known 10-to-one pattern of changes in the tilt of the planet's rotation axis. "Each layer has weathered into a stair step in the topography where material that's more resistant to erosion lies on top of material that's less resistant to erosion," said Kevin Lewis of the California Institute of Technology, Pasadena, who is the lead author of a report on the periodic layering published in the Dec. 5 edition of the journal Science. Some periodic change in the environment appears to have affected how resistant the rock-forming sediments became, perhaps from changes in what size of sand or silt particles were deposited by the wind, or from how the particles were cemented together after deposition. Some of the individual layers are less than three feet thick. The camera, called HiRISE for short, took pairs of images of each site from slightly different angles in orbit, providing the stereo information necessary for determining each layer's thickness. "It's easy to be fooled without knowing the topography and measuring the layers in three dimensions," said Alfred McEwen of the University of Arizona, Tucson, principal investigator for the camera and a co-author of the new report. "With the stereo information, it is clear there's a repeating pattern to these layers." Geologists commonly find "rhythms," or repeating patterns, in sedimentary layers on Earth. Determining the source of the rhythms can be difficult. Some result from annual or tidal cycles, or from episodic flooding that may not be periodic at all, but the role of longer-term astronomical cycles has been debated. One step in showing that astronomical cycles can leave their mark in sediments came from finding repeating five-layer sets in some terrestrial bedrock, matching a known five-to-one ratio of two cyclical variations in Earth's orbit. Lewis and colleagues found something similar on Mars: "Our findings suggest that cycles of climate change led to the patterns we see recorded in the Mars rock layers today, possibly as a result of similar variations in Mars' orbit," he said. "Mars has a 10-to-one ratio in cycles of how its tilt changes -- smaller wobbles within larger packages. Sure enough, we see a 10-to-one ratio in one of these layered deposits. It's like trying to identify a song -- it's easier if there are multiple instruments playing different parts, rather than just a single rhythm." In addition to having rhythm of 10 beats to the bar instead of Earth's five-beat pattern, Mars has characteristics that make it a good laboratory for studying how astronomical cycles affect climate. The tilt of Mars' axis varies much more than the axis of Earth, because Earth's relatively large moon provides a stabilizing effect. And, at least for most of its history, Mars has lacked the oceans and thick atmosphere that, on Earth, modulate the effects of orbital variations and add their own cyclical patterns. The 10-beat pattern of Mars' wobble lasts about 1.2 million years. If the 10-layer bundles in Becquerel crater are indeed signatures of that cycle, the 10 or more bundles stacked on each other record about 12 million years when environmental conditions affecting sedimentation were generally steady except for effects of the changing tilt. NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, a division of Caltech, manages the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter for NASA's Science Mission Directorate, Washington. Lockheed Martin Space Systems, Denver, is the prime contractor for the project and built the spacecraft. The HiRISE camera was built by Ball Aerospace and Technologies Corp., Boulder, and is operated by the University of Arizona. For more about the mission, visit: http://www.nasa.gov/mro . Media contacts: Guy Webster 818-354-6278 Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. guy.webster at jpl.nasa.gov Dwayne Brown 202-358-1726 NASA Headquarters, Washington dwayne.c.brown at nasa.gov 2008-227 From m42protosun at aol.com Thu Dec 4 20:00:26 2008 From: m42protosun at aol.com (m42protosun at aol.com) Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2008 20:00:26 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorites, Elements and The Periodic Table In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CB248BFEBF5EC1-12B8-1EA@WEBMAIL-DY22.sysops.aol.com> Hi list and Bill, all matter of our solar system is produced from stars of the 1st and 2nd generation. Elements higher than Fe (iron) were produced by spallation. Therfore in the beginning (4,6 Byrs ago) the cloud from which our solar sysem was built up was homogenous, comtaining all elements of the PS as we know it tuday. Even the elements Pu+Np, Tc, Pm were abundant. Lot of radioactive isotopes of the elements were abundant, like 26Al. Depending of their short half-life the are today absent. But the stable daughter elemental isotopes are abundant. In CAIs of meteorites is an excess of 26Mg. Thats it. Uwe -----Urspr?ngliche Mitteilung----- Von: bill kies An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Verschickt: Do., 4. Dez. 2008, 22:35 Thema: [meteorite-list] Meteorites, Elements and The Periodic Table I understand that many mineral constituents of meteorites are regarded as still unrepresented among native terrestrial products. Are there any elements that are unique to meteorites? _________________________________________________________________ Send e-mail faster without improving your typing skills. http://windowslive.com/Explore/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_speed_122008 ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ________________________________________________________________________ AOL eMail auf Ihrem Hand y! Ab sofort k?nnen Sie auch unterwegs Ihre AOL email abrufen. Registrieren Sie sich jetzt kostenlos. From tommy2005 at hvc.rr.com Thu Dec 4 21:12:34 2008 From: tommy2005 at hvc.rr.com (Tom Randall (KB2SMS)) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 21:12:34 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] eBay's Spyware and Cookies Message-ID: <36E71A7E-1E8B-45D1-B6F1-D14AC247DC8E@hvc.rr.com> I am SO glad I ditched windows 10 years ago..... I.E. is a POS. Use firefox. Congrats to the new Canadian fall! --- http://home.hvc.rr.com/kb2sms/index.html From tett at rogers.com Thu Dec 4 21:36:29 2008 From: tett at rogers.com (tett) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 21:36:29 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorites are not the only valuable we collect. Meteorite Mag. References: <36E71A7E-1E8B-45D1-B6F1-D14AC247DC8E@hvc.rr.com> Message-ID: Wow, a back issue of Meteorite Mag from 2004 just went on eBay for over $80! I have about 30 issues dating back to 1999. Perhaps I should start keeping them in ricker mounts! Cheers, Mike Tettenborn From Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr Fri Dec 5 02:14:35 2008 From: Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr (Zelimir Gabelica) Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2008 08:14:35 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorites, Elements and The Periodic Table In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20081205081357.024252a0@pop.univ-mulhouse.fr> No.... Zelimir A 15:35 04/12/2008 -0600, bill kies a ?crit : >I understand that many mineral constituents of meteorites are regarded as >still unrepresented among native terrestrial products. Are there any >elements that are unique to meteorites? >_________________________________________________________________ >Send e-mail faster without improving your typing skills. >http://windowslive.com/Explore/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_speed_122008 >______________________________________________ >http://www.meteoritecentral.com >Meteorite-list mailing list >Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Universit? de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 From mexicodoug at aim.com Fri Dec 5 04:43:14 2008 From: mexicodoug at aim.com (mexicodoug at aim.com) Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2008 04:43:14 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteor Brightens Night Sky (Denver 2008.12.04) Message-ID: <8CB24D5071F98DC-14B8-715@webmail-db15.sysops.aol.com> Looks like a listmember is getting some nice press... and that someone is throwing a lot of space rocks at the earth lately ... http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/18208878/detail.html Meteor Brightens Night Sky Fireball Spotted Across Front Range POSTED: 9:44 pm MST December 4, 2008 UPDATED: 11:02 pm MST December 4, 2008 DENVER -- Reports are coming in from all around Colorado about a bright object in the sky on Thursday night. Chris Peterson, astronomer at Cloudbait Observatory in Guffey, Colo., said he is receiving credible reports of the object pointing to a spectacular meteor display. The celestial spectacle occurred at around 8:43 p.m. Peterson said is happened about 60 to 70 degrees above the horizon, going from a west to east direction. By the trajectory and perceived proximity, Peterson estimated the meteor landed in the eastern part of the state. Denver and Aurora emergency crews were sent on several wild goose chases of the impact of the meteor. The reports ranged from Monaco Parkway and Hampden Avenue in Denver, all the way to 32nd Avenue and Airport Way in Aurora, to east of Denver International Airport. Eyewitness reports have come trickling in from as far away as Fairplay in Park County, to Estes Park, to Aspen Park in rural Jefferson County. Denver International Airport spokesman Jeff Green said air traffic controllers have reported heavy meteor activity the past few nights. Also Green confirmed it was not an aircraft in distress that was streaking across the sky. If you saw a meteor in the Thursday night sky, report it to the All Sky Network and the Cloudbait Observatory. From majbaermann at web.de Fri Dec 5 05:02:00 2008 From: majbaermann at web.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Matthias_B=E4rmann?=) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 11:02:00 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteor Brightens Night Sky (Denver 2008.12.04) References: <8CB24D5071F98DC-14B8-715@webmail-db15.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <70EDE8EC6EB74AA2B35249ABF6741728@thinkcentre> This was Santa Anne in her glowing rednosed-reindeer-driven, ecologically absolutely uncritical flying drop-top, infatigably anxious to provide all her clients with heavenly objects in accurate SST (Santa Standard Time). Matthias ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 10:43 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteor Brightens Night Sky (Denver 2008.12.04) > Looks like a listmember is getting some nice press... and that someone is > throwing a lot of space rocks at the earth lately ... > > http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/18208878/detail.html > > Meteor Brightens Night Sky > Fireball Spotted Across Front Range > > POSTED: 9:44 pm MST December 4, 2008 > UPDATED: 11:02 pm MST December 4, 2008 > > > DENVER -- Reports are coming in from all around Colorado about a bright > object in the sky on Thursday night. > > Chris Peterson, astronomer at Cloudbait Observatory in Guffey, Colo., said > he is receiving credible reports of the object pointing to a spectacular > meteor display. > > The celestial spectacle occurred at around 8:43 p.m. Peterson said is > happened about 60 to 70 degrees above the horizon, going from a west to > east direction. By the trajectory and perceived proximity, Peterson > estimated the meteor landed in the eastern part of the state. > > Denver and Aurora emergency crews were sent on several wild goose chases > of the impact of the meteor. The reports ranged from Monaco Parkway and > Hampden Avenue in Denver, all the way to 32nd Avenue and Airport Way in > Aurora, to east of Denver International Airport. > > Eyewitness reports have come trickling in from as far away as Fairplay in > Park County, to Estes Park, to Aspen Park in rural Jefferson County. > > Denver International Airport spokesman Jeff Green said air traffic > controllers have reported heavy meteor activity the past few nights. Also > Green confirmed it was not an aircraft in distress that was streaking > across the sky. > > If you saw a meteor in the Thursday night sky, report it to the All Sky > Network and the Cloudbait Observatory. > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From michael at spacerocksinc.com Fri Dec 5 06:39:58 2008 From: michael at spacerocksinc.com (Michael Johnson) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 03:39:58 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December 5, 2008 Message-ID: <5373237.2102891228477198342.JavaMail.root@mbs4.homesteadmail.com> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/December_5_2008.html From meteoriteplaya at gmail.com Fri Dec 5 11:00:46 2008 From: meteoriteplaya at gmail.com (Mike Jensen) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 09:00:46 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] More on new Canadian meteorite Message-ID: <6f9da8300812050800y5c430a58ydb55ca00442ef8ab@mail.gmail.com> Hi All Here is a excellent narrative about the recovery of the original stones, the 13 kg stone, and a couple of new ones. http://skyriver.ca/astro/bruce/meteorite.htm Make sure you go all the way to the bottom of the page. -- Mike -- Mike Jensen Meteorites 16730 E Ada PL Aurora, CO 80017-3137 USA 720-949-6220 IMCA 4264 website: www.jensenmeteorites.com From grf2 at verizon.net Fri Dec 5 11:20:28 2008 From: grf2 at verizon.net (Jerry Flaherty) Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2008 11:20:28 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December 5, 2008 References: <5373237.2102891228477198342.JavaMail.root@mbs4.homesteadmail.com> Message-ID: <13041C5BF06346EC90BA06844C2E93F5@ASUS> absolute chondrule city. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Johnson" To: "Meteorite List" Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 6:39 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December 5, 2008 > http://www.rocksfromspace.org/December_5_2008.html > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com Fri Dec 5 11:25:00 2008 From: sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com (Steve Dunklee) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 08:25:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December 5, 2008 In-Reply-To: <13041C5BF06346EC90BA06844C2E93F5@ASUS> Message-ID: <276422.21077.qm@web33205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> The pic looks like a great background or screen saver! Have a great day Steve --- On Fri, 12/5/08, Jerry Flaherty wrote: > From: Jerry Flaherty > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December 5, 2008 > To: "Michael Johnson" , "Meteorite List" > Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 10:20 AM > absolute chondrule city. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael > Johnson" > To: "Meteorite List" > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 6:39 AM > Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the > Day - December 5, 2008 > > > > http://www.rocksfromspace.org/December_5_2008.html > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoriteplaya at gmail.com Fri Dec 5 12:03:30 2008 From: meteoriteplaya at gmail.com (Mike Jensen) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 10:03:30 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale Message-ID: <6f9da8300812050903n7695df52h2adcbdfd9d6a9e47@mail.gmail.com> Hi All I am posting this for McCartney Taylor who has no access to the internet right now. He and Sonny have been hunting for pieces of the new Canadian fall. He said that about 90% of the strewnfield is impossible to hunt as Alan Hildebrand has secured it for his teams to hunt. McCartney also mentioned that people from all around the area are hunting on private property without permission. Most of that might be over as some light snow has fallen making searching quite difficult. The good news is they were able to get permission to hunt on some private property and have found a few smaller pieces. They would like to offer them up to Canadian residents only as they would need permission to export them out of the country. So if you live in Canada and would like to purchase one they have three pieces weighing 10-25 grams. The selling price is $50 per gram. They will be leaving within 12 hours so if you are interested in buying one please email McCartney ASAP so he can ship them before he leaves the country. He will have access to the internet later tonight so please email him your request. mccartney at blackbearddata.com Mike Mike Jensen Meteorites 16730 E Ada PL Aurora, CO 80017-3137 USA 720-949-6220 IMCA 4264 website: www.jensenmeteorites.com From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Fri Dec 5 12:05:13 2008 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 09:05:13 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale In-Reply-To: <6f9da8300812050903n7695df52h2adcbdfd9d6a9e47@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <614071.80420.qm@web110210.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> $50.00 gram? Wow Bargain time. This is a huge fall. Michael Farmer --- On Fri, 12/5/08, Mike Jensen wrote: > From: Mike Jensen > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale > To: "Meteorite Mailing List" > Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 10:03 AM > Hi All > I am posting this for McCartney Taylor who has no access to > the > internet right now. He and Sonny have been hunting for > pieces of the > new Canadian fall. He said that about 90% of the > strewnfield is > impossible to hunt as Alan Hildebrand has secured it for > his teams to > hunt. > McCartney also mentioned that people from all around the > area are > hunting on private property without permission. Most of > that might be > over as some light snow has fallen making searching quite > difficult. > The good news is they were able to get permission to hunt > on some > private property and have found a few smaller pieces. They > would like > to offer them up to Canadian residents only as they would > need > permission to export them out of the country. So if you > live in Canada > and would like to purchase one they have three pieces > weighing 10-25 > grams. The selling price is $50 per gram. They will be > leaving within > 12 hours so if you are interested in buying one please > email McCartney > ASAP so he can ship them before he leaves the country. > He will have access to the internet later tonight so please > email him > your request. > > mccartney at blackbearddata.com > > > Mike > > > Mike Jensen Meteorites > 16730 E Ada PL > Aurora, CO 80017-3137 > USA > 720-949-6220 > IMCA 4264 > website: www.jensenmeteorites.com > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From gmhupe at htn.net Fri Dec 5 12:14:26 2008 From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 12:14:26 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale References: <6f9da8300812050903n7695df52h2adcbdfd9d6a9e47@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3DCA765D282C4569BFE3AAE9BDBA0F8B@Gregor> Hello Mike, Mike and List, Doesn't the Canadian government have first right of refusal on any meteorite sales/purchases? I thought I read from one of our Canadian List members that only after the Canadian government, museum or such, has opted not to purchase a meteorite, then the "land owner" has the right to sell the meteorite(s). I'd like to hear from our Canadian friends to see if there is a clear definanition of the Canadian law regarding this. Best regards, Greg ==================== Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmhupe at htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 ==================== Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Jensen" To: "Meteorite Mailing List" Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 12:03 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale > Hi All > I am posting this for McCartney Taylor who has no access to the > internet right now. He and Sonny have been hunting for pieces of the > new Canadian fall. He said that about 90% of the strewnfield is > impossible to hunt as Alan Hildebrand has secured it for his teams to > hunt. > McCartney also mentioned that people from all around the area are > hunting on private property without permission. Most of that might be > over as some light snow has fallen making searching quite difficult. > The good news is they were able to get permission to hunt on some > private property and have found a few smaller pieces. They would like > to offer them up to Canadian residents only as they would need > permission to export them out of the country. So if you live in Canada > and would like to purchase one they have three pieces weighing 10-25 > grams. The selling price is $50 per gram. They will be leaving within > 12 hours so if you are interested in buying one please email McCartney > ASAP so he can ship them before he leaves the country. > He will have access to the internet later tonight so please email him > your request. > > mccartney at blackbearddata.com > > > Mike > > > Mike Jensen Meteorites > 16730 E Ada PL > Aurora, CO 80017-3137 > USA > 720-949-6220 > IMCA 4264 > website: www.jensenmeteorites.com > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Fri Dec 5 12:18:33 2008 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 09:18:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale In-Reply-To: <3DCA765D282C4569BFE3AAE9BDBA0F8B@Gregor> Message-ID: <968640.3416.qm@web110212.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> No, they have that right before issuing the permit, not to buy everything. so, should they still want the meteorite, they can make an offer before issuing the permit. Mike --- On Fri, 12/5/08, Greg Hupe wrote: > From: Greg Hupe > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale > To: "Mike Jensen" , meteoriteguy at yahoo.com > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 10:14 AM > Hello Mike, Mike and List, > > Doesn't the Canadian government have first right of > refusal on any meteorite sales/purchases? I thought I read > from one of our Canadian List members that only after the > Canadian government, museum or such, has opted not to > purchase a meteorite, then the "land owner" has > the right to sell the meteorite(s). > > I'd like to hear from our Canadian friends to see if > there is a clear definanition of the Canadian law regarding > this. > > Best regards, > Greg > > ==================== > Greg Hupe > The Hupe Collection > NaturesVault (eBay) > gmhupe at htn.net > www.LunarRock.com > IMCA 3163 > ==================== > Click here for my current eBay auctions: > http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Jensen" > > To: "Meteorite Mailing List" > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 12:03 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for > sale > > > > Hi All > > I am posting this for McCartney Taylor who has no > access to the > > internet right now. He and Sonny have been hunting for > pieces of the > > new Canadian fall. He said that about 90% of the > strewnfield is > > impossible to hunt as Alan Hildebrand has secured it > for his teams to > > hunt. > > McCartney also mentioned that people from all around > the area are > > hunting on private property without permission. Most > of that might be > > over as some light snow has fallen making searching > quite difficult. > > The good news is they were able to get permission to > hunt on some > > private property and have found a few smaller pieces. > They would like > > to offer them up to Canadian residents only as they > would need > > permission to export them out of the country. So if > you live in Canada > > and would like to purchase one they have three pieces > weighing 10-25 > > grams. The selling price is $50 per gram. They will be > leaving within > > 12 hours so if you are interested in buying one please > email McCartney > > ASAP so he can ship them before he leaves the country. > > He will have access to the internet later tonight so > please email him > > your request. > > > > mccartney at blackbearddata.com > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > Mike Jensen Meteorites > > 16730 E Ada PL > > Aurora, CO 80017-3137 > > USA > > 720-949-6220 > > IMCA 4264 > > website: www.jensenmeteorites.com > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From MeteorHntr at aol.com Fri Dec 5 12:58:37 2008 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 12:58:37 EST Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale Message-ID: Greg, As I understand, the Canadian law was put in place to give Canadian Scientists first shot at ALL the grant money on research for any newly found meteorites in Canada. If any meteorite is allowed outside the Canadian borders, it would allow some other scientist or institution in another country to get that grant money. In some cases that grant money could total in the tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of dollars. I am not sure what Canadian Meteorite Researchers earn each year, but their salaries can't be cheap for their employers. So, as long as the physical rock stayed in Canada, then no harm can be done to the Canadian scientists. Years ago, I purchased a new Canadian Meteorite when I drove to Canada. I gave it to a Canadian collector to hold for me when I returned to the states to figure out what I wanted to do with it. I then sold the ownership of the rock to another American meteorite dealer, even though the rock always remained, and to this day it still remains in Canada. I would imagine, if this meteorite is indeed an ordinary chondrite, there will be little research money given to study it. So the scientists probably will not be interested in buying much of it, since there will be little to no return on their investment. If there is 100,000 grams eventually found, they probably will not want to pay over $10/g, or spend $1,000,000 if their grant money they will earn would be less than $1,000,000. The reason why the Canadians were willing to pay the one guy $650,000 for his 650g Tagish Lake, is because they could make so much MORE profit off the grant money to study that one. So if any finds from the Marsden Meteorite are submitted for an export permit, all the institutions in Canada will get to stall for 6 months to eventually end up saying that they don't want to buy any of them, providing that in the next 6 months they get more than enough donated to them for free, or if someone else wants to sell them some at below market values. I think the real question to be asked is HOW do they determine what the "fair market value" of the meteorites are? If Sonny and McCartney can find a buyer for $50 a gram, does that then force the government to now pay $50/g IF any others are found and the finders choose to request the export permit, and a Canadian institution would to buy them first? If Sonny or McCartney do not sell all of their finds at their asking price of $50/g, maybe they could put one of their finds up on Ebay, with the stipulation that the rock will NOT be shipped out of Canada, then Canadian bidders could help establish the retail value. Of course, a foreign buyer could bid and own it, even though they would not take actual physical possession of it. As I said before, IF the Canadian government is more than willing to pay a true fair market value on all found meteorites, then this is wonderful. It will encourage many people to go out and find meteorites in Canada knowing there is a reward waiting for their finds Steve Arnold #1 www.SteveArnoldMeteorites.com In a message dated 12/5/2008 11:15:11 A.M. Central Standard Time, gmhupe at htn.net writes: Hello Mike, Mike and List, Doesn't the Canadian government have first right of refusal on any meteorite sales/purchases? I thought I read from one of our Canadian List members that only after the Canadian government, museum or such, has opted not to purchase a meteorite, then the "land owner" has the right to sell the meteorite(s). I'd like to hear from our Canadian friends to see if there is a clear definanition of the Canadian law regarding this. Best regards, Greg **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Fri Dec 5 13:10:12 2008 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 10:10:12 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <179398.99397.qm@web110215.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> This meteorite will end up with a retail value of ~$10 gram or so, give or take a few $ and perhaps $25 gram for small stones. There will be a huge amount of this meteorite found, the videos show every local schoolkid walking around with meteorites, and the real hunting hasnt even started yet. The snow is about to fall, putting the meteorite in deep freeze. Most of us hunters are talking and planning major hunts for springtime when the thaw comes. I forsee at least a few hundred kilos of stones being found. Canada will allow export of stones, that wont be a problem for a common chondrite, since the government will have plenty of material. Kudos to Sonny and McCartney, but the price will not be set be a single sale. Michael Farmer --- On Fri, 12/5/08, MeteorHntr at aol.com wrote: > From: MeteorHntr at aol.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale > To: gmhupe at htn.net, meteoriteplaya at gmail.com, meteoriteguy at yahoo.com > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 10:58 AM > Greg, > > As I understand, the Canadian law was put in place to give > Canadian > Scientists first shot at ALL the grant money on research > for any newly found > meteorites in Canada. > > If any meteorite is allowed outside the Canadian borders, > it would allow > some other scientist or institution in another country to > get that grant money. > In some cases that grant money could total in the tens of > thousands or > hundreds of thousands of dollars. > > I am not sure what Canadian Meteorite Researchers earn > each year, but their > salaries can't be cheap for their employers. > > So, as long as the physical rock stayed in Canada, then no > harm can be done > to the Canadian scientists. > > Years ago, I purchased a new Canadian Meteorite when I > drove to Canada. I > gave it to a Canadian collector to hold for me when I > returned to the states > to figure out what I wanted to do with it. I then sold > the ownership of the > rock to another American meteorite dealer, even though the > rock always > remained, and to this day it still remains in Canada. > > I would imagine, if this meteorite is indeed an ordinary > chondrite, there > will be little research money given to study it. So the > scientists probably > will not be interested in buying much of it, since there > will be little to no > return on their investment. > > If there is 100,000 grams eventually found, they probably > will not want to > pay over $10/g, or spend $1,000,000 if their grant money > they will earn would > be less than $1,000,000. > > The reason why the Canadians were willing to pay the one > guy $650,000 for > his 650g Tagish Lake, is because they could make so much > MORE profit off the > grant money to study that one. > > So if any finds from the Marsden Meteorite are submitted > for an export > permit, all the institutions in Canada will get to stall > for 6 months to > eventually end up saying that they don't want to buy > any of them, providing that in > the next 6 months they get more than enough donated to > them for free, or if > someone else wants to sell them some at below market > values. > > I think the real question to be asked is HOW do they > determine what the > "fair market value" of the meteorites are? > > If Sonny and McCartney can find a buyer for $50 a gram, > does that then force > the government to now pay $50/g IF any others are found > and the finders > choose to request the export permit, and a Canadian > institution would to buy them > first? If Sonny or McCartney do not sell all of their > finds at their > asking price of $50/g, maybe they could put one of their > finds up on Ebay, with > the stipulation that the rock will NOT be shipped out of > Canada, then Canadian > bidders could help establish the retail value. Of course, > a foreign buyer > could bid and own it, even though they would not take > actual physical > possession of it. > > As I said before, IF the Canadian government is more than > willing to pay a > true fair market value on all found meteorites, then this > is wonderful. It > will encourage many people to go out and find meteorites in > Canada knowing > there is a reward waiting for their finds > > Steve Arnold #1 > www.SteveArnoldMeteorites.com > > > > > > > In a message dated 12/5/2008 11:15:11 A.M. Central > Standard Time, > gmhupe at htn.net writes: > Hello Mike, Mike and List, > > Doesn't the Canadian government have first right of > refusal on any meteorite > sales/purchases? I thought I read from one of our Canadian > List members that > only after the Canadian government, museum or such, has > opted not to > purchase a meteorite, then the "land owner" has > the right to sell the > meteorite(s). > > I'd like to hear from our Canadian friends to see if > there is a clear > definanition of the Canadian law regarding this. > > Best regards, > Greg > > **************Make your life easier with all your friends, > email, and > favorite sites in one place. Try it now. > (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com Fri Dec 5 13:15:15 2008 From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 10:15:15 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale In-Reply-To: <179398.99397.qm@web110215.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <647337.19914.qm@web45616.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> I agree 100% on this. $50 per gram is too high, the Carancas for example was $100 per gram at first, now it can be had for under $20 per gram. I have read several places that it is only valued at $1 - $10 per gram. I will wait a bit myself. Greg --- On Fri, 12/5/08, Michael Farmer wrote: > From: Michael Farmer > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale > To: gmhupe at htn.net, meteoriteplaya at gmail.com, MeteorHntr at aol.com > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 1:10 PM > This meteorite will end up with a retail value of ~$10 gram > or so, give or take a few $ and perhaps $25 gram for small > stones. There will be a huge amount of this meteorite found, > the videos show every local schoolkid walking around with > meteorites, and the real hunting hasnt even started yet. The > snow is about to fall, putting the meteorite in deep freeze. > Most of us hunters are talking and planning major hunts for > springtime when the thaw comes. > I forsee at least a few hundred kilos of stones being > found. > Canada will allow export of stones, that wont be a problem > for a common chondrite, since the government will have > plenty of material. > Kudos to Sonny and McCartney, but the price will not be set > be a single sale. > Michael Farmer > > > --- On Fri, 12/5/08, MeteorHntr at aol.com > wrote: > > > From: MeteorHntr at aol.com > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian > Meteorite for sale > > To: gmhupe at htn.net, meteoriteplaya at gmail.com, > meteoriteguy at yahoo.com > > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 10:58 AM > > Greg, > > > > As I understand, the Canadian law was put in place to > give > > Canadian > > Scientists first shot at ALL the grant money on > research > > for any newly found > > meteorites in Canada. > > > > If any meteorite is allowed outside the Canadian > borders, > > it would allow > > some other scientist or institution in another > country to > > get that grant money. > > In some cases that grant money could total in the > tens of > > thousands or > > hundreds of thousands of dollars. > > > > I am not sure what Canadian Meteorite Researchers > earn > > each year, but their > > salaries can't be cheap for their employers. > > > > So, as long as the physical rock stayed in Canada, > then no > > harm can be done > > to the Canadian scientists. > > > > Years ago, I purchased a new Canadian Meteorite when > I > > drove to Canada. I > > gave it to a Canadian collector to hold for me when I > > returned to the states > > to figure out what I wanted to do with it. I then > sold > > the ownership of the > > rock to another American meteorite dealer, even > though the > > rock always > > remained, and to this day it still remains in Canada. > > > > I would imagine, if this meteorite is indeed an > ordinary > > chondrite, there > > will be little research money given to study it. So > the > > scientists probably > > will not be interested in buying much of it, since > there > > will be little to no > > return on their investment. > > > > If there is 100,000 grams eventually found, they > probably > > will not want to > > pay over $10/g, or spend $1,000,000 if their grant > money > > they will earn would > > be less than $1,000,000. > > > > The reason why the Canadians were willing to pay the > one > > guy $650,000 for > > his 650g Tagish Lake, is because they could make so > much > > MORE profit off the > > grant money to study that one. > > > > So if any finds from the Marsden Meteorite are > submitted > > for an export > > permit, all the institutions in Canada will get to > stall > > for 6 months to > > eventually end up saying that they don't want to > buy > > any of them, providing that in > > the next 6 months they get more than enough donated > to > > them for free, or if > > someone else wants to sell them some at below market > > values. > > > > I think the real question to be asked is HOW do they > > determine what the > > "fair market value" of the meteorites are? > > > > If Sonny and McCartney can find a buyer for $50 a > gram, > > does that then force > > the government to now pay $50/g IF any others are > found > > and the finders > > choose to request the export permit, and a Canadian > > institution would to buy them > > first? If Sonny or McCartney do not sell all of > their > > finds at their > > asking price of $50/g, maybe they could put one of > their > > finds up on Ebay, with > > the stipulation that the rock will NOT be shipped out > of > > Canada, then Canadian > > bidders could help establish the retail value. Of > course, > > a foreign buyer > > could bid and own it, even though they would not take > > actual physical > > possession of it. > > > > As I said before, IF the Canadian government is more > than > > willing to pay a > > true fair market value on all found meteorites, then > this > > is wonderful. It > > will encourage many people to go out and find > meteorites in > > Canada knowing > > there is a reward waiting for their finds > > > > Steve Arnold #1 > > www.SteveArnoldMeteorites.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 12/5/2008 11:15:11 A.M. Central > > Standard Time, > > gmhupe at htn.net writes: > > Hello Mike, Mike and List, > > > > Doesn't the Canadian government have first right > of > > refusal on any meteorite > > sales/purchases? I thought I read from one of our > Canadian > > List members that > > only after the Canadian government, museum or such, > has > > opted not to > > purchase a meteorite, then the "land owner" > has > > the right to sell the > > meteorite(s). > > > > I'd like to hear from our Canadian friends to see > if > > there is a clear > > definanition of the Canadian law regarding this. > > > > Best regards, > > Greg > > > > **************Make your life easier with all your > friends, > > email, and > > favorite sites in one place. Try it now. > > > (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From info at mcomemeteorite.it Fri Dec 5 13:19:00 2008 From: info at mcomemeteorite.it (M come Meteorite Meteorites) Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2008 19:19:00 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale Message-ID: <49397094.389.7a75.456401517@webmaildh6.aruba.it> $50/gr. for a big fall? Time some months and the price go under...I waiting matteo ----- Original Message ----- Da : "Mike Jensen" A : "Meteorite Mailing List" Oggetto : Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale Data : Fri, 5 Dec 2008 10:03:30 -0700 > Hi All > I am posting this for McCartney Taylor who has no access > to the internet right now. He and Sonny have been hunting > for pieces of the new Canadian fall. He said that about > 90% of the strewnfield is impossible to hunt as Alan > Hildebrand has secured it for his teams to hunt. > McCartney also mentioned that people from all around the > area are hunting on private property without permission. > Most of that might be over as some light snow has fallen > making searching quite difficult. The good news is they > were able to get permission to hunt on some private > property and have found a few smaller pieces. They would > like to offer them up to Canadian residents only as they > would need permission to export them out of the country. > So if you live in Canada and would like to purchase one > they have three pieces weighing 10-25 grams. The selling > price is $50 per gram. They will be leaving within 12 > hours so if you are interested in buying one please email > McCartney ASAP so he can ship them before he leaves the > country. He will have access to the internet later tonight > so please email him your request. > > mccartney at blackbearddata.com > > > Mike > > > Mike Jensen Meteorites > 16730 E Ada PL > Aurora, CO 80017-3137 > USA > 720-949-6220 > IMCA 4264 > website: www.jensenmeteorites.com > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list M come Meteorite Meteoriti info at mcomemeteorite.it http://www.mcomemeteorite.it http://www.mcomemeteorite.info Mindat Gallery http://www.mindat.org/gallery-5018.html From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Fri Dec 5 13:22:07 2008 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 10:22:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale In-Reply-To: <647337.19914.qm@web45616.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <940211.99222.qm@web110203.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> This is where pricing becomes difficult. Carancas was an extraordinary event. Very little material found, half of what was found was dust. $100 gram was a fair price, as I sold out at that price in hours. The 13 kilo piece of the Canadian fall weighs as much as nearly all of the Carancas found. Some pieces sell cheap now because people in Peru and Bolivia held too long, waiting for more money, while I and others filled up all buyers and museums, now there is not the demand because everyone already has it. Canada is a widespread fall, apparently everyone and their brother up there has found stones, so they will start trickling out. The videos make this fall a must have. I am not trying to set a price, just mulling over the last decade of falls and the price outcomes and this is where I see it ending up. Depends of course on export etc, but Canadian government will not spend millions of this chondrite. Tagish was a different creature, rarest meteorite almost that ever fell. We will see, it will take months to get export permits, time for TKW etc to firm up and tell us more. mike --- On Fri, 12/5/08, Greg Catterton wrote: > From: Greg Catterton > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 11:15 AM > I agree 100% on this. $50 per gram is too high, the Carancas > for example was $100 per gram at first, now it can be had > for under $20 per gram. > I have read several places that it is only valued at $1 - > $10 per gram. I will wait a bit myself. > > Greg > > > --- On Fri, 12/5/08, Michael Farmer > wrote: > > > From: Michael Farmer > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian > Meteorite for sale > > To: gmhupe at htn.net, meteoriteplaya at gmail.com, > MeteorHntr at aol.com > > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 1:10 PM > > This meteorite will end up with a retail value of ~$10 > gram > > or so, give or take a few $ and perhaps $25 gram for > small > > stones. There will be a huge amount of this meteorite > found, > > the videos show every local schoolkid walking around > with > > meteorites, and the real hunting hasnt even started > yet. The > > snow is about to fall, putting the meteorite in deep > freeze. > > Most of us hunters are talking and planning major > hunts for > > springtime when the thaw comes. > > I forsee at least a few hundred kilos of stones being > > found. > > Canada will allow export of stones, that wont be a > problem > > for a common chondrite, since the government will have > > plenty of material. > > Kudos to Sonny and McCartney, but the price will not > be set > > be a single sale. > > Michael Farmer > > > > > > --- On Fri, 12/5/08, MeteorHntr at aol.com > > wrote: > > > > > From: MeteorHntr at aol.com > > > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian > > Meteorite for sale > > > To: gmhupe at htn.net, meteoriteplaya at gmail.com, > > meteoriteguy at yahoo.com > > > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 10:58 AM > > > Greg, > > > > > > As I understand, the Canadian law was put in > place to > > give > > > Canadian > > > Scientists first shot at ALL the grant money on > > research > > > for any newly found > > > meteorites in Canada. > > > > > > If any meteorite is allowed outside the Canadian > > borders, > > > it would allow > > > some other scientist or institution in another > > country to > > > get that grant money. > > > In some cases that grant money could total in > the > > tens of > > > thousands or > > > hundreds of thousands of dollars. > > > > > > I am not sure what Canadian Meteorite Researchers > > > earn > > > each year, but their > > > salaries can't be cheap for their employers. > > > > > > > So, as long as the physical rock stayed in > Canada, > > then no > > > harm can be done > > > to the Canadian scientists. > > > > > > Years ago, I purchased a new Canadian Meteorite > when > > I > > > drove to Canada. I > > > gave it to a Canadian collector to hold for me > when I > > > returned to the states > > > to figure out what I wanted to do with it. I > then > > sold > > > the ownership of the > > > rock to another American meteorite dealer, even > > though the > > > rock always > > > remained, and to this day it still remains in > Canada. > > > > > > I would imagine, if this meteorite is indeed an > > ordinary > > > chondrite, there > > > will be little research money given to study it. > So > > the > > > scientists probably > > > will not be interested in buying much of it, > since > > there > > > will be little to no > > > return on their investment. > > > > > > If there is 100,000 grams eventually found, they > > probably > > > will not want to > > > pay over $10/g, or spend $1,000,000 if their > grant > > money > > > they will earn would > > > be less than $1,000,000. > > > > > > The reason why the Canadians were willing to pay > the > > one > > > guy $650,000 for > > > his 650g Tagish Lake, is because they could make > so > > much > > > MORE profit off the > > > grant money to study that one. > > > > > > So if any finds from the Marsden Meteorite are > > submitted > > > for an export > > > permit, all the institutions in Canada will get > to > > stall > > > for 6 months to > > > eventually end up saying that they don't > want to > > buy > > > any of them, providing that in > > > the next 6 months they get more than enough > donated > > to > > > them for free, or if > > > someone else wants to sell them some at below > market > > > values. > > > > > > I think the real question to be asked is HOW do > they > > > determine what the > > > "fair market value" of the meteorites > are? > > > > > > If Sonny and McCartney can find a buyer for $50 > a > > gram, > > > does that then force > > > the government to now pay $50/g IF any others > are > > found > > > and the finders > > > choose to request the export permit, and a > Canadian > > > institution would to buy them > > > first? If Sonny or McCartney do not sell all > of > > their > > > finds at their > > > asking price of $50/g, maybe they could put one > of > > their > > > finds up on Ebay, with > > > the stipulation that the rock will NOT be shipped > out > > of > > > Canada, then Canadian > > > bidders could help establish the retail value. > Of > > course, > > > a foreign buyer > > > could bid and own it, even though they would not > take > > > actual physical > > > possession of it. > > > > > > As I said before, IF the Canadian government is > more > > than > > > willing to pay a > > > true fair market value on all found meteorites, > then > > this > > > is wonderful. It > > > will encourage many people to go out and find > > meteorites in > > > Canada knowing > > > there is a reward waiting for their finds > > > > > > Steve Arnold #1 > > > www.SteveArnoldMeteorites.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 12/5/2008 11:15:11 A.M. > Central > > > Standard Time, > > > gmhupe at htn.net writes: > > > Hello Mike, Mike and List, > > > > > > Doesn't the Canadian government have first > right > > of > > > refusal on any meteorite > > > sales/purchases? I thought I read from one of > our > > Canadian > > > List members that > > > only after the Canadian government, museum or > such, > > has > > > opted not to > > > purchase a meteorite, then the "land > owner" > > has > > > the right to sell the > > > meteorite(s). > > > > > > I'd like to hear from our Canadian friends > to see > > if > > > there is a clear > > > definanition of the Canadian law regarding this. > > > > > > Best regards, > > > Greg > > > > > > **************Make your life easier with all your > > friends, > > > email, and > > > favorite sites in one place. Try it now. > > > > > > (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) > > > ______________________________________________ > > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From gmhupe at htn.net Fri Dec 5 13:45:53 2008 From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 13:45:53 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] New Canadian Meteorite References: <940211.99222.qm@web110203.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hello All, I hope all who are finding material from the new Canadian meteorite fall are sending their GPS coordinates to the investigating scientists so they can compile the data into their databases to get the best possible length and width of the strewnfield. Not only that, it is a great opportunity for scientists, hunters and collectors to work together! Congratulations to Sonny, McCartney and all who have already found some of this new chondrite!! Best regards, Greg ==================== Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmhupe at htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 ==================== Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Farmer" To: ; Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 1:22 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale > This is where pricing becomes difficult. Carancas was an extraordinary > event. Very little material found, half of what was found was dust. $100 > gram was a fair price, as I sold out at that price in hours. > The 13 kilo piece of the Canadian fall weighs as much as nearly all of the > Carancas found. Some pieces sell cheap now because people in Peru and > Bolivia held too long, waiting for more money, while I and others filled > up all buyers and museums, now there is not the demand because everyone > already has it. > > Canada is a widespread fall, apparently everyone and their brother up > there has found stones, so they will start trickling out. The videos make > this fall a must have. I am not trying to set a price, just mulling over > the last decade of falls and the price outcomes and this is where I see it > ending up. Depends of course on export etc, but Canadian government will > not spend millions of this chondrite. Tagish was a different creature, > rarest meteorite almost that ever fell. > We will see, it will take months to get export permits, time for TKW etc > to firm up and tell us more. > mike > > > > --- On Fri, 12/5/08, Greg Catterton wrote: > >> From: Greg Catterton >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale >> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 11:15 AM >> I agree 100% on this. $50 per gram is too high, the Carancas >> for example was $100 per gram at first, now it can be had >> for under $20 per gram. >> I have read several places that it is only valued at $1 - >> $10 per gram. I will wait a bit myself. >> >> Greg >> >> >> --- On Fri, 12/5/08, Michael Farmer >> wrote: >> >> > From: Michael Farmer >> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian >> Meteorite for sale >> > To: gmhupe at htn.net, meteoriteplaya at gmail.com, >> MeteorHntr at aol.com >> > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> > Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 1:10 PM >> > This meteorite will end up with a retail value of ~$10 >> gram >> > or so, give or take a few $ and perhaps $25 gram for >> small >> > stones. There will be a huge amount of this meteorite >> found, >> > the videos show every local schoolkid walking around >> with >> > meteorites, and the real hunting hasnt even started >> yet. The >> > snow is about to fall, putting the meteorite in deep >> freeze. >> > Most of us hunters are talking and planning major >> hunts for >> > springtime when the thaw comes. >> > I forsee at least a few hundred kilos of stones being >> > found. >> > Canada will allow export of stones, that wont be a >> problem >> > for a common chondrite, since the government will have >> > plenty of material. >> > Kudos to Sonny and McCartney, but the price will not >> be set >> > be a single sale. >> > Michael Farmer >> > >> > >> > --- On Fri, 12/5/08, MeteorHntr at aol.com >> > wrote: >> > >> > > From: MeteorHntr at aol.com >> >> > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian >> > Meteorite for sale >> > > To: gmhupe at htn.net, meteoriteplaya at gmail.com, >> > meteoriteguy at yahoo.com >> > > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> > > Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 10:58 AM >> > > Greg, >> > > >> > > As I understand, the Canadian law was put in >> place to >> > give >> > > Canadian >> > > Scientists first shot at ALL the grant money on >> > research >> > > for any newly found >> > > meteorites in Canada. >> > > >> > > If any meteorite is allowed outside the Canadian >> > borders, >> > > it would allow >> > > some other scientist or institution in another >> > country to >> > > get that grant money. >> > > In some cases that grant money could total in >> the >> > tens of >> > > thousands or >> > > hundreds of thousands of dollars. >> > > >> > > I am not sure what Canadian Meteorite Researchers >> >> > earn >> > > each year, but their >> > > salaries can't be cheap for their employers. >> >> > > >> > > So, as long as the physical rock stayed in >> Canada, >> > then no >> > > harm can be done >> > > to the Canadian scientists. >> > > >> > > Years ago, I purchased a new Canadian Meteorite >> when >> > I >> > > drove to Canada. I >> > > gave it to a Canadian collector to hold for me >> when I >> > > returned to the states >> > > to figure out what I wanted to do with it. I >> then >> > sold >> > > the ownership of the >> > > rock to another American meteorite dealer, even >> > though the >> > > rock always >> > > remained, and to this day it still remains in >> Canada. >> > > >> > > I would imagine, if this meteorite is indeed an >> > ordinary >> > > chondrite, there >> > > will be little research money given to study it. >> So >> > the >> > > scientists probably >> > > will not be interested in buying much of it, >> since >> > there >> > > will be little to no >> > > return on their investment. >> > > >> > > If there is 100,000 grams eventually found, they >> > probably >> > > will not want to >> > > pay over $10/g, or spend $1,000,000 if their >> grant >> > money >> > > they will earn would >> > > be less than $1,000,000. >> > > >> > > The reason why the Canadians were willing to pay >> the >> > one >> > > guy $650,000 for >> > > his 650g Tagish Lake, is because they could make >> so >> > much >> > > MORE profit off the >> > > grant money to study that one. >> > > >> > > So if any finds from the Marsden Meteorite are >> > submitted >> > > for an export >> > > permit, all the institutions in Canada will get >> to >> > stall >> > > for 6 months to >> > > eventually end up saying that they don't >> want to >> > buy >> > > any of them, providing that in >> > > the next 6 months they get more than enough >> donated >> > to >> > > them for free, or if >> > > someone else wants to sell them some at below >> market >> > > values. >> > > >> > > I think the real question to be asked is HOW do >> they >> > > determine what the >> > > "fair market value" of the meteorites >> are? >> > > >> > > If Sonny and McCartney can find a buyer for $50 >> a >> > gram, >> > > does that then force >> > > the government to now pay $50/g IF any others >> are >> > found >> > > and the finders >> > > choose to request the export permit, and a >> Canadian >> > > institution would to buy them >> > > first? If Sonny or McCartney do not sell all >> of >> > their >> > > finds at their >> > > asking price of $50/g, maybe they could put one >> of >> > their >> > > finds up on Ebay, with >> > > the stipulation that the rock will NOT be shipped >> out >> > of >> > > Canada, then Canadian >> > > bidders could help establish the retail value. >> Of >> > course, >> > > a foreign buyer >> > > could bid and own it, even though they would not >> take >> > > actual physical >> > > possession of it. >> > > >> > > As I said before, IF the Canadian government is >> more >> > than >> > > willing to pay a >> > > true fair market value on all found meteorites, >> then >> > this >> > > is wonderful. It >> > > will encourage many people to go out and find >> > meteorites in >> > > Canada knowing >> > > there is a reward waiting for their finds >> > > >> > > Steve Arnold #1 >> > > www.SteveArnoldMeteorites.com >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > In a message dated 12/5/2008 11:15:11 A.M. >> Central >> > > Standard Time, >> > > gmhupe at htn.net writes: >> > > Hello Mike, Mike and List, >> > > >> > > Doesn't the Canadian government have first >> right >> > of >> > > refusal on any meteorite >> > > sales/purchases? I thought I read from one of >> our >> > Canadian >> > > List members that >> > > only after the Canadian government, museum or >> such, >> > has >> > > opted not to >> > > purchase a meteorite, then the "land >> owner" >> > has >> > > the right to sell the >> > > meteorite(s). >> > > >> > > I'd like to hear from our Canadian friends >> to see >> > if >> > > there is a clear >> > > definanition of the Canadian law regarding this. >> > > >> > > Best regards, >> > > Greg >> > > >> > > **************Make your life easier with all your >> > friends, >> > > email, and >> > > favorite sites in one place. Try it now. >> > > >> > >> (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) >> > > ______________________________________________ >> > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> > > Meteorite-list mailing list >> > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> > > >> > >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > ______________________________________________ >> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> > Meteorite-list mailing list >> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> > >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From MeteorHntr at aol.com Fri Dec 5 14:08:20 2008 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 14:08:20 EST Subject: [meteorite-list] New Canadian Meteorite Message-ID: Greg and All, I agree Greg, and likewise I hope the Canadian Government Researchers are making their GPS coordinates of all their finds available to private hunters so that the private hunters can compile data into their GPS units to be able to get all the meteorites recovered from within the strewnfield. I totally agree with Greg, this is a great opportunity for scientists, hunters and collectors to work together. In fact, if the government employees would publicly state how much they would be willing to buy, and at what price they will pay, agreeing to let the rest go through the export permit process without challenge would be a great help too. If local land owners and hunters would know what the values would be, then better decisions could be made for everyone involved. Quotes in the newspapers that there "could be millions of dollars of meteorites on the ground" and that a head sized rock "could be worth $50,000" or that a "1 kilo rock is worth $10,000" is all nice, but it is so vague as to what the real values are that I am sure the locals are a bit confused right now. Letting the locals cash in on the finds will only help more Canadians in future falls get excited about going out and hunting too. It will turn out bad if all the locals think that if 500,000 g are found that they can automatically expect to get $5,000,000 (or more) out of it, then the government ends up only buying a kilo's worth and then no one else is interested in paying anything 6 months from now because a new fall (or 2 or 3) will have diverted everyone's attention elsewhere. Letting all the kilos of Tagish Lake fall to the bottom of the lake when the thaw came was an embarrassment for all the people claiming they were "acting in the best interest of science by not sharing the information." Here is their chance to redeem themselves, while the world is watching. If there is indeed thousands of stones, weighing hundreds of kilos total, there is no way a single college professor/researcher will be able to hunt the entire strewnfield... even if he took a 10 year sabbatical to keep hunting. But with cooperation with the private hunters, there is a chance that many if not most could be found in a short period of time, maybe in a year or two. We will see what happens... Steve Arnold #1 www.SteveArnoldMeteorites.com In a message dated 12/5/2008 12:46:39 P.M. Central Standard Time, gmhupe at htn.net writes: Hello All, I hope all who are finding material from the new Canadian meteorite fall are sending their GPS coordinates to the investigating scientists so they can compile the data into their databases to get the best possible length and width of the strewnfield. Not only that, it is a great opportunity for scientists, hunters and collectors to work together! Congratulations to Sonny, McCartney and all who have already found some of this new chondrite!! Best regards, Greg **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Fri Dec 5 14:43:25 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 11:43:25 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars Odyssey THEMIS Images: December 1-5, 2008 Message-ID: <200812051943.LAA07245@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> MARS ODYSSEY THEMIS IMAGES December 1-5, 2008 o Polar Dunes (Released 01 December 2008) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20081201a o More Polar Dunes (Released 02 December 2008) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20081202a o Dunes (Released 03 December 2008) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20081203a o Terra Sabaea (Released 04 December 2008) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20081204a o More Terra Sabaea (Released 05 December 2008) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20081205a All of the THEMIS images are archived here: http://themis.asu.edu/latest.html NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory manages the 2001 Mars Odyssey mission for NASA's Office of Space Science, Washington, D.C. The Thermal Emission Imaging System (THEMIS) was developed by Arizona State University, Tempe, in co.oration with Raytheon Santa Barbara Remote Sensing. The THEMIS investigation is led by Dr. Philip Christensen at Arizona State University. Lockheed Martin Astronautics, Denver, is the prime contractor for the Odyssey project, and developed and built the orbiter. Mission operations are conducted jointly from Lockheed Martin and from JPL, a division of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena. From Impactika at aol.com Fri Dec 5 14:49:22 2008 From: Impactika at aol.com (Impactika at aol.com) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 14:49:22 EST Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteor Brightens Night Sky (Denver 2008.12.04) Message-ID: Thank you very much Matthias and Doug. In fact it was much too cold to be out last night. About the time that meteor was seen, the temperature was 7 degrees Farenheit, about minus 15 centigrades. So I didn't even see it. But thank you for your very funny post. Anne M. Black _http://www.impactika.com/_ (http://www.impactika.com/) _IMPACTIKA at aol.com_ (mailto:IMPACTIKA at aol.com) Vice-President, I.M.C.A. Inc. _http://www.imca.cc/_ (http://www.imca.cc/) In a message dated 12/5/2008 3:02:21 AM Mountain Standard Time, majbaermann at web.de writes: This was Santa Anne in her glowing rednosed-reindeer-driven, ecologically absolutely uncritical flying drop-top, infatigably anxious to provide all her clients with heavenly objects in accurate SST (Santa Standard Time). Matthias ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 10:43 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteor Brightens Night Sky (Denver 2008.12.04) > Looks like a listmember is getting some nice press... and that someone is > throwing a lot of space rocks at the earth lately ... > > http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/18208878/detail.html > > Meteor Brightens Night Sky > Fireball Spotted Across Front Range > > POSTED: 9:44 pm MST December 4, 2008 > UPDATED: 11:02 pm MST December 4, 2008 > > > DENVER -- Reports are coming in from all around Colorado about a bright > object in the sky on Thursday night. > > Chris Peterson, astronomer at Cloudbait Observatory in Guffey, Colo., said > he is receiving credible reports of the object pointing to a spectacular > meteor display. > > The celestial spectacle occurred at around 8:43 p.m. Peterson said is > happened about 60 to 70 degrees above the horizon, going from a west to > east direction. By the trajectory and perceived proximity, Peterson > estimated the meteor landed in the eastern part of the state. > > Denver and Aurora emergency crews were sent on several wild goose chases > of the impact of the meteor. The reports ranged from Monaco Parkway and > Hampden Avenue in Denver, all the way to 32nd Avenue and Airport Way in > Aurora, to east of Denver International Airport. > > Eyewitness reports have come trickling in from as far away as Fairplay in > Park County, to Estes Park, to Aspen Park in rural Jefferson County. > > Denver International Airport spokesman Jeff Green said air traffic > controllers have reported heavy meteor activity the past few nights. Also > Green confirmed it was not an aircraft in distress that was streaking > across the sky. > > If you saw a meteor in the Thursday night sky, report it to the All Sky > Network and the Cloudbait Observatory. > **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Fri Dec 5 16:20:56 2008 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 13:20:56 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Reminder, Bonhams sale, last day to bid. Message-ID: <698729.32358.qm@web110213.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Just a reminder to everyone, the Bonhams Natural History Auction this Sunday, Dec 7 in LA, has a very nice selection of meteorites, many rarities, Martian and Lunar pieces. I have many pieces consigned to this auction, only one, the 500 gram Esquel has reserve, the others sell where they end. Get in there and bid. All bids must be in at least 24 hours ahead which really means today. You can also set up for phone bidding, but I think that also must be done like right now! I was going to attend, but today cancelled my plans. My wife and I have been very ill since returning from the Middle East, so in order to get ready for Japan and clean up 23 days of mail and other stuff which piles up when on month-long expeditions, I had to cancel my plans to attend in person. www.bonhams.com click on Natural History and you will see the auction, simply type in "meteorite" in search and you will see all of them. Michael Farmer From grf2 at verizon.net Fri Dec 5 17:34:32 2008 From: grf2 at verizon.net (Jerry Flaherty) Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2008 17:34:32 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale References: <940211.99222.qm@web110203.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2CD11A10FA524D6BB8CC18F152ED5ECF@ASUS> Sounds sensible to me. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Farmer" To: ; Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 1:22 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale > This is where pricing becomes difficult. Carancas was an extraordinary > event. Very little material found, half of what was found was dust. $100 > gram was a fair price, as I sold out at that price in hours. > The 13 kilo piece of the Canadian fall weighs as much as nearly all of the > Carancas found. Some pieces sell cheap now because people in Peru and > Bolivia held too long, waiting for more money, while I and others filled > up all buyers and museums, now there is not the demand because everyone > already has it. > > Canada is a widespread fall, apparently everyone and their brother up > there has found stones, so they will start trickling out. The videos make > this fall a must have. I am not trying to set a price, just mulling over > the last decade of falls and the price outcomes and this is where I see it > ending up. Depends of course on export etc, but Canadian government will > not spend millions of this chondrite. Tagish was a different creature, > rarest meteorite almost that ever fell. > We will see, it will take months to get export permits, time for TKW etc > to firm up and tell us more. > mike > > > > --- On Fri, 12/5/08, Greg Catterton wrote: > >> From: Greg Catterton >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale >> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 11:15 AM >> I agree 100% on this. $50 per gram is too high, the Carancas >> for example was $100 per gram at first, now it can be had >> for under $20 per gram. >> I have read several places that it is only valued at $1 - >> $10 per gram. I will wait a bit myself. >> >> Greg >> >> >> --- On Fri, 12/5/08, Michael Farmer >> wrote: >> >> > From: Michael Farmer >> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian >> Meteorite for sale >> > To: gmhupe at htn.net, meteoriteplaya at gmail.com, >> MeteorHntr at aol.com >> > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> > Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 1:10 PM >> > This meteorite will end up with a retail value of ~$10 >> gram >> > or so, give or take a few $ and perhaps $25 gram for >> small >> > stones. There will be a huge amount of this meteorite >> found, >> > the videos show every local schoolkid walking around >> with >> > meteorites, and the real hunting hasnt even started >> yet. The >> > snow is about to fall, putting the meteorite in deep >> freeze. >> > Most of us hunters are talking and planning major >> hunts for >> > springtime when the thaw comes. >> > I forsee at least a few hundred kilos of stones being >> > found. >> > Canada will allow export of stones, that wont be a >> problem >> > for a common chondrite, since the government will have >> > plenty of material. >> > Kudos to Sonny and McCartney, but the price will not >> be set >> > be a single sale. >> > Michael Farmer >> > >> > >> > --- On Fri, 12/5/08, MeteorHntr at aol.com >> > wrote: >> > >> > > From: MeteorHntr at aol.com >> >> > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian >> > Meteorite for sale >> > > To: gmhupe at htn.net, meteoriteplaya at gmail.com, >> > meteoriteguy at yahoo.com >> > > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> > > Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 10:58 AM >> > > Greg, >> > > >> > > As I understand, the Canadian law was put in >> place to >> > give >> > > Canadian >> > > Scientists first shot at ALL the grant money on >> > research >> > > for any newly found >> > > meteorites in Canada. >> > > >> > > If any meteorite is allowed outside the Canadian >> > borders, >> > > it would allow >> > > some other scientist or institution in another >> > country to >> > > get that grant money. >> > > In some cases that grant money could total in >> the >> > tens of >> > > thousands or >> > > hundreds of thousands of dollars. >> > > >> > > I am not sure what Canadian Meteorite Researchers >> >> > earn >> > > each year, but their >> > > salaries can't be cheap for their employers. >> >> > > >> > > So, as long as the physical rock stayed in >> Canada, >> > then no >> > > harm can be done >> > > to the Canadian scientists. >> > > >> > > Years ago, I purchased a new Canadian Meteorite >> when >> > I >> > > drove to Canada. I >> > > gave it to a Canadian collector to hold for me >> when I >> > > returned to the states >> > > to figure out what I wanted to do with it. I >> then >> > sold >> > > the ownership of the >> > > rock to another American meteorite dealer, even >> > though the >> > > rock always >> > > remained, and to this day it still remains in >> Canada. >> > > >> > > I would imagine, if this meteorite is indeed an >> > ordinary >> > > chondrite, there >> > > will be little research money given to study it. >> So >> > the >> > > scientists probably >> > > will not be interested in buying much of it, >> since >> > there >> > > will be little to no >> > > return on their investment. >> > > >> > > If there is 100,000 grams eventually found, they >> > probably >> > > will not want to >> > > pay over $10/g, or spend $1,000,000 if their >> grant >> > money >> > > they will earn would >> > > be less than $1,000,000. >> > > >> > > The reason why the Canadians were willing to pay >> the >> > one >> > > guy $650,000 for >> > > his 650g Tagish Lake, is because they could make >> so >> > much >> > > MORE profit off the >> > > grant money to study that one. >> > > >> > > So if any finds from the Marsden Meteorite are >> > submitted >> > > for an export >> > > permit, all the institutions in Canada will get >> to >> > stall >> > > for 6 months to >> > > eventually end up saying that they don't >> want to >> > buy >> > > any of them, providing that in >> > > the next 6 months they get more than enough >> donated >> > to >> > > them for free, or if >> > > someone else wants to sell them some at below >> market >> > > values. >> > > >> > > I think the real question to be asked is HOW do >> they >> > > determine what the >> > > "fair market value" of the meteorites >> are? >> > > >> > > If Sonny and McCartney can find a buyer for $50 >> a >> > gram, >> > > does that then force >> > > the government to now pay $50/g IF any others >> are >> > found >> > > and the finders >> > > choose to request the export permit, and a >> Canadian >> > > institution would to buy them >> > > first? If Sonny or McCartney do not sell all >> of >> > their >> > > finds at their >> > > asking price of $50/g, maybe they could put one >> of >> > their >> > > finds up on Ebay, with >> > > the stipulation that the rock will NOT be shipped >> out >> > of >> > > Canada, then Canadian >> > > bidders could help establish the retail value. >> Of >> > course, >> > > a foreign buyer >> > > could bid and own it, even though they would not >> take >> > > actual physical >> > > possession of it. >> > > >> > > As I said before, IF the Canadian government is >> more >> > than >> > > willing to pay a >> > > true fair market value on all found meteorites, >> then >> > this >> > > is wonderful. It >> > > will encourage many people to go out and find >> > meteorites in >> > > Canada knowing >> > > there is a reward waiting for their finds >> > > >> > > Steve Arnold #1 >> > > www.SteveArnoldMeteorites.com >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > In a message dated 12/5/2008 11:15:11 A.M. >> Central >> > > Standard Time, >> > > gmhupe at htn.net writes: >> > > Hello Mike, Mike and List, >> > > >> > > Doesn't the Canadian government have first >> right >> > of >> > > refusal on any meteorite >> > > sales/purchases? I thought I read from one of >> our >> > Canadian >> > > List members that >> > > only after the Canadian government, museum or >> such, >> > has >> > > opted not to >> > > purchase a meteorite, then the "land >> owner" >> > has >> > > the right to sell the >> > > meteorite(s). >> > > >> > > I'd like to hear from our Canadian friends >> to see >> > if >> > > there is a clear >> > > definanition of the Canadian law regarding this. >> > > >> > > Best regards, >> > > Greg >> > > >> > > **************Make your life easier with all your >> > friends, >> > > email, and >> > > favorite sites in one place. Try it now. >> > > >> > >> (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) >> > > ______________________________________________ >> > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> > > Meteorite-list mailing list >> > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> > > >> > >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > ______________________________________________ >> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> > Meteorite-list mailing list >> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> > >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From clp at alumni.caltech.edu Fri Dec 5 17:40:40 2008 From: clp at alumni.caltech.edu (Chris Peterson) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 15:40:40 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteor Brightens Night Sky (Denver 2008.12.04) References: <8CB24D5071F98DC-14B8-715@webmail-db15.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <1977AA0A398844EE960362A932FE5D0B@bellatrix> Unfortunately, a snow storm was just clearing out of the area at the time, and all the cameras that might have caught this were still clouded out. But over 60 people have filed reports, from Utah, across Colorado, and into Nebraska. So I can estimate the path. The meteor was fairly slow, not too steep, and seems to have fragmented into two or three pieces. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a new strewn field out in eastern Colorado. I've put a map of the approximate ground path at http://www.cloudbait.com/science/fireball20081204.html Chris ***************************************** Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 2:43 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteor Brightens Night Sky (Denver 2008.12.04) > Looks like a listmember is getting some nice press... and that someone is > throwing a lot of space rocks at the earth lately ... > > http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/18208878/detail.html > > Meteor Brightens Night Sky > Fireball Spotted Across Front Range From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Fri Dec 5 17:47:08 2008 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 14:47:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteor Brightens Night Sky (Denver 2008.12.04) In-Reply-To: <1977AA0A398844EE960362A932FE5D0B@bellatrix> Message-ID: <936339.94054.qm@web110203.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Man,when it rains, it pours! Why cant one of these fall over Tucson or Phoenix, always sunny, easy hunting, totally recoverable! In the last year, how many nice fireballs over Colo and the Northwest, none recovered! Hopefully some farmer finds a large black rock in his barn today. Michael Farmer --- On Fri, 12/5/08, Chris Peterson wrote: > From: Chris Peterson > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteor Brightens Night Sky (Denver 2008.12.04) > To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 3:40 PM > Unfortunately, a snow storm was just clearing out of the > area at the time, and all the cameras that might have caught > this were still clouded out. But over 60 people have filed > reports, from Utah, across Colorado, and into Nebraska. So I > can estimate the path. The meteor was fairly slow, not too > steep, and seems to have fragmented into two or three > pieces. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a new > strewn field out in eastern Colorado. I've put a map of > the approximate ground path at > http://www.cloudbait.com/science/fireball20081204.html > > Chris > > ***************************************** > Chris L Peterson > Cloudbait Observatory > http://www.cloudbait.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: > > To: > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 2:43 AM > Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteor Brightens Night Sky > (Denver 2008.12.04) > > > > Looks like a listmember is getting some nice press... > and that someone is throwing a lot of space rocks at the > earth lately ... > > > > > http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/18208878/detail.html > > > > Meteor Brightens Night Sky > > Fireball Spotted Across Front Range > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com Fri Dec 5 17:51:33 2008 From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 14:51:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale In-Reply-To: <940211.99222.qm@web110203.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <245270.5901.qm@web45616.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> I see this as being true about the total weight available and thats why I think that the $50 per gram is way too much to pay for this fall. In a few months it will be able to be purchased for a much lower cost. Yes, I do think that the amount of video will add to the price some, but not much more then the typical new falls bring in. I think the price range given for this fall of between $1 - $10 per gram will be correct as more material becomes available. Its not like there is not alot available as Mike said about the Carancas fall... That said, I am looking for a sample of this, but wont pay $50 per gram for it. I for one am looking forward to the hunters trips and will wait until then to make my purchase unless someone offers me a sample at a more reasonable price. --- On Fri, 12/5/08, Michael Farmer wrote: > From: Michael Farmer > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, star_wars_collector at yahoo.com > Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 1:22 PM > This is where pricing becomes difficult. Carancas was an > extraordinary event. Very little material found, half of > what was found was dust. $100 gram was a fair price, as I > sold out at that price in hours. > The 13 kilo piece of the Canadian fall weighs as much as > nearly all of the Carancas found. Some pieces sell cheap > now because people in Peru and Bolivia held too long, > waiting for more money, while I and others filled up all > buyers and museums, now there is not the demand because > everyone already has it. > > Canada is a widespread fall, apparently everyone and their > brother up there has found stones, so they will start > trickling out. The videos make this fall a must have. I am > not trying to set a price, just mulling over the last decade > of falls and the price outcomes and this is where I see it > ending up. Depends of course on export etc, but Canadian > government will not spend millions of this chondrite. Tagish > was a different creature, rarest meteorite almost that ever > fell. > We will see, it will take months to get export permits, > time for TKW etc to firm up and tell us more. > mike > > > > --- On Fri, 12/5/08, Greg Catterton > wrote: > > > From: Greg Catterton > > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian > Meteorite for sale > > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 11:15 AM > > I agree 100% on this. $50 per gram is too high, the > Carancas > > for example was $100 per gram at first, now it can be > had > > for under $20 per gram. > > I have read several places that it is only valued at > $1 - > > $10 per gram. I will wait a bit myself. > > > > Greg > > > > > > --- On Fri, 12/5/08, Michael Farmer > > wrote: > > > > > From: Michael Farmer > > > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian > > Meteorite for sale > > > To: gmhupe at htn.net, meteoriteplaya at gmail.com, > > MeteorHntr at aol.com > > > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 1:10 PM > > > This meteorite will end up with a retail value of > ~$10 > > gram > > > or so, give or take a few $ and perhaps $25 gram > for > > small > > > stones. There will be a huge amount of this > meteorite > > found, > > > the videos show every local schoolkid walking > around > > with > > > meteorites, and the real hunting hasnt even > started > > yet. The > > > snow is about to fall, putting the meteorite in > deep > > freeze. > > > Most of us hunters are talking and planning major > > hunts for > > > springtime when the thaw comes. > > > I forsee at least a few hundred kilos of stones > being > > > found. > > > Canada will allow export of stones, that wont be > a > > problem > > > for a common chondrite, since the government will > have > > > plenty of material. > > > Kudos to Sonny and McCartney, but the price will > not > > be set > > > be a single sale. > > > Michael Farmer > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 12/5/08, MeteorHntr at aol.com > > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: MeteorHntr at aol.com > > > > > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New > Canadian > > > Meteorite for sale > > > > To: gmhupe at htn.net, > meteoriteplaya at gmail.com, > > > meteoriteguy at yahoo.com > > > > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > > Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 10:58 AM > > > > Greg, > > > > > > > > As I understand, the Canadian law was put > in > > place to > > > give > > > > Canadian > > > > Scientists first shot at ALL the grant money > on > > > research > > > > for any newly found > > > > meteorites in Canada. > > > > > > > > If any meteorite is allowed outside the > Canadian > > > borders, > > > > it would allow > > > > some other scientist or institution in > another > > > country to > > > > get that grant money. > > > > In some cases that grant money could total > in > > the > > > tens of > > > > thousands or > > > > hundreds of thousands of dollars. > > > > > > > > I am not sure what Canadian Meteorite > Researchers > > > > > earn > > > > each year, but their > > > > salaries can't be cheap for their > employers. > > > > > > > > > > So, as long as the physical rock stayed in > > Canada, > > > then no > > > > harm can be done > > > > to the Canadian scientists. > > > > > > > > Years ago, I purchased a new Canadian > Meteorite > > when > > > I > > > > drove to Canada. I > > > > gave it to a Canadian collector to hold for > me > > when I > > > > returned to the states > > > > to figure out what I wanted to do with it. > I > > then > > > sold > > > > the ownership of the > > > > rock to another American meteorite dealer, > even > > > though the > > > > rock always > > > > remained, and to this day it still remains > in > > Canada. > > > > > > > > I would imagine, if this meteorite is indeed > an > > > ordinary > > > > chondrite, there > > > > will be little research money given to study > it. > > So > > > the > > > > scientists probably > > > > will not be interested in buying much of it, > > since > > > there > > > > will be little to no > > > > return on their investment. > > > > > > > > If there is 100,000 grams eventually found, > they > > > probably > > > > will not want to > > > > pay over $10/g, or spend $1,000,000 if > their > > grant > > > money > > > > they will earn would > > > > be less than $1,000,000. > > > > > > > > The reason why the Canadians were willing to > pay > > the > > > one > > > > guy $650,000 for > > > > his 650g Tagish Lake, is because they could > make > > so > > > much > > > > MORE profit off the > > > > grant money to study that one. > > > > > > > > So if any finds from the Marsden Meteorite > are > > > submitted > > > > for an export > > > > permit, all the institutions in Canada will > get > > to > > > stall > > > > for 6 months to > > > > eventually end up saying that they > don't > > want to > > > buy > > > > any of them, providing that in > > > > the next 6 months they get more than enough > > donated > > > to > > > > them for free, or if > > > > someone else wants to sell them some at > below > > market > > > > values. > > > > > > > > I think the real question to be asked is HOW > do > > they > > > > determine what the > > > > "fair market value" of the > meteorites > > are? > > > > > > > > If Sonny and McCartney can find a buyer for > $50 > > a > > > gram, > > > > does that then force > > > > the government to now pay $50/g IF any > others > > are > > > found > > > > and the finders > > > > choose to request the export permit, and a > > Canadian > > > > institution would to buy them > > > > first? If Sonny or McCartney do not sell > all > > of > > > their > > > > finds at their > > > > asking price of $50/g, maybe they could put > one > > of > > > their > > > > finds up on Ebay, with > > > > the stipulation that the rock will NOT be > shipped > > out > > > of > > > > Canada, then Canadian > > > > bidders could help establish the retail > value. > > Of > > > course, > > > > a foreign buyer > > > > could bid and own it, even though they would > not > > take > > > > actual physical > > > > possession of it. > > > > > > > > As I said before, IF the Canadian government > is > > more > > > than > > > > willing to pay a > > > > true fair market value on all found > meteorites, > > then > > > this > > > > is wonderful. It > > > > will encourage many people to go out and > find > > > meteorites in > > > > Canada knowing > > > > there is a reward waiting for their finds > > > > > > > > Steve Arnold #1 > > > > www.SteveArnoldMeteorites.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 12/5/2008 11:15:11 A.M. > > Central > > > > Standard Time, > > > > gmhupe at htn.net writes: > > > > Hello Mike, Mike and List, > > > > > > > > Doesn't the Canadian government have > first > > right > > > of > > > > refusal on any meteorite > > > > sales/purchases? I thought I read from one > of > > our > > > Canadian > > > > List members that > > > > only after the Canadian government, museum > or > > such, > > > has > > > > opted not to > > > > purchase a meteorite, then the "land > > owner" > > > has > > > > the right to sell the > > > > meteorite(s). > > > > > > > > I'd like to hear from our Canadian > friends > > to see > > > if > > > > there is a clear > > > > definanition of the Canadian law regarding > this. > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > Greg > > > > > > > > **************Make your life easier with all > your > > > friends, > > > > email, and > > > > favorite sites in one place. Try it now. > > > > > > > > > > (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > > > > > > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > ______________________________________________ > > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Fri Dec 5 17:56:15 2008 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 05 Dec 2008 22:56:15 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] Re-2: Meteor Brightens Night Sky (Denver 2008.12.04) Message-ID: > Man,when it rains, it pours! Wasn't there a song: "It never rains in *California* ?! ;-) > always sunny, easy hunting, totally recoverable! .. like the Tucson irons :-) > Hopefully some farmer finds a large black rock in his barn today. There's at least one *Farmer* out there :-)) Sorry, couldn't resist! Best, Bernd To: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com clp at alumni.caltech.edu From deanbessey at yahoo.com Fri Dec 5 18:20:10 2008 From: deanbessey at yahoo.com (dean bessey) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 15:20:10 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Not a meteorite sale In-Reply-To: <245270.5901.qm@web45616.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <470374.93195.qm@web56102.mail.re3.yahoo.com> I was a bit excited when I first cut this as it looks like a nice howardite but it is in fact not a meteorite. One of the nicer reference items for your NWA meteor wrong collection. http://www.meteoriteshop.com/metsale/meteorwrong.html If anybody wants a nice conglomerate rock from NWA price is $8.95 including shipping anywhere in the world Sincerely DEAN BESSEY http://www.meteoriteshop.com/metsale/meteorwrong.html http://www.meteoriteshop.com From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Fri Dec 5 18:58:12 2008 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 05 Dec 2008 23:58:12 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Not a meteorite sale Message-ID: Our New Zealander wrote: "I was a bit excited when I first cut this as it looks like a nice howardite but it is in fact not a meteorite. One of the nicer reference items for your NWA meteor wrong collection." http://www.meteoriteshop.com/metsale/meteorwrong.html Holy smokes! This must be one of the best meteor-wrongs I've ever seen !!! Best, Bernd To: deanbessey at yahoo.com meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com From romanj at sympatico.ca Fri Dec 5 19:21:34 2008 From: romanj at sympatico.ca (Roman) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 19:21:34 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale References: <6f9da8300812050903n7695df52h2adcbdfd9d6a9e47@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <026401c95738$98838130$6600a8c0@compaqsdg7ojf0> Good Guys, Great hunting skills, but no Canadian should pay that price! Cheers, Roman Jirasek ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Jensen" To: "Meteorite Mailing List" Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 12:03 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale > Hi All > I am posting this for McCartney Taylor who has no access to the > internet right now. He and Sonny have been hunting for pieces of the > new Canadian fall. He said that about 90% of the strewnfield is > impossible to hunt as Alan Hildebrand has secured it for his teams to > hunt. > McCartney also mentioned that people from all around the area are > hunting on private property without permission. Most of that might be > over as some light snow has fallen making searching quite difficult. > The good news is they were able to get permission to hunt on some > private property and have found a few smaller pieces. They would like > to offer them up to Canadian residents only as they would need > permission to export them out of the country. So if you live in Canada > and would like to purchase one they have three pieces weighing 10-25 > grams. The selling price is $50 per gram. They will be leaving within > 12 hours so if you are interested in buying one please email McCartney > ASAP so he can ship them before he leaves the country. > He will have access to the internet later tonight so please email him > your request. > > mccartney at blackbearddata.com > > > Mike > > > Mike Jensen Meteorites > 16730 E Ada PL > Aurora, CO 80017-3137 > USA > 720-949-6220 > IMCA 4264 > website: www.jensenmeteorites.com > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From cynapse at charter.net Fri Dec 5 19:32:19 2008 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2008 19:32:19 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Not a meteorite sale In-Reply-To: <470374.93195.qm@web56102.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <245270.5901.qm@web45616.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <470374.93195.qm@web56102.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 5 Dec 2008 15:20:10 -0800 (PST), you wrote: >I was a bit excited when I first cut this as it looks like a nice howardite but it is in fact not a meteorite. One of the nicer reference items for your NWA meteor wrong collection. >http://www.meteoriteshop.com/metsale/meteorwrong.html >If anybody wants a nice conglomerate rock from NWA price is $8.95 including shipping anywhere in the world >Sincerely WOW, that's a hard site to read! Dean, trust me on this-- black text on a white background. From cynapse at charter.net Fri Dec 5 19:44:10 2008 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2008 19:44:10 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] More on new Canadian meteorite In-Reply-To: <6f9da8300812050800y5c430a58ydb55ca00442ef8ab@mail.gmail.com> References: <6f9da8300812050800y5c430a58ydb55ca00442ef8ab@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Anyone got an idea on the type for the meteorite yet? From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Fri Dec 5 20:14:19 2008 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 02:14:19 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale In-Reply-To: <026401c95738$98838130$6600a8c0@compaqsdg7ojf0> References: <6f9da8300812050903n7695df52h2adcbdfd9d6a9e47@mail.gmail.com> <026401c95738$98838130$6600a8c0@compaqsdg7ojf0> Message-ID: <006c01c9573f$f787fb50$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Humm, Villalbeto, Moss, La Mancha/La Pice, Carancas, Cali, Zunhua, Hosur..... to me there seems to be an evident trend, that new falls get much higher paid, than all the years before. 4 of the world-record prices for new falls happened the recent few years. Exceptions are the nevertheless marvellous falls from North-Africa. So 50$ appears not so unusual to me. Who offers first, makes the pace. Whether this price is more justified or less justified won't depend on the tkw which will be recovered, it will depend on how much material will be allowed to be exported. Two main price factors exist for a meteorite. Type of course, but the same important: availability. Pattern for new falls: 1) First expensive - few offerers, collectors worried to miss out... 2) Falling prices, more providers, more material 3) Raising prices, often up to a level higher to the first offers, cause the stuff has gone. Speed, with which that happens, depends on how much material is set free and on how many sellers get involved. In worst case, step 2 won't take place. But that's nothing new, all know that. So you can hope with the new fall, that large quantities will be exported or/and that Heence&Koons get some in, so that it ends offered by many collectors and on ebay too, and if you're lucky, you will catch it at 5$ or 10$. But you can be not so lucky, in waiting, waiting....and only smaller quantities will hit the market, and after a while you will have to pay more than 50$, cause most could have been gone. Best! Martin -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Roman Gesendet: Samstag, 6. Dezember 2008 01:22 An: Mike Jensen Cc: metlist Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale Good Guys, Great hunting skills, but no Canadian should pay that price! Cheers, Roman Jirasek ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Jensen" To: "Meteorite Mailing List" Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 12:03 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale > Hi All > I am posting this for McCartney Taylor who has no access to the > internet right now. He and Sonny have been hunting for pieces of the > new Canadian fall. He said that about 90% of the strewnfield is > impossible to hunt as Alan Hildebrand has secured it for his teams to > hunt. > McCartney also mentioned that people from all around the area are > hunting on private property without permission. Most of that might be > over as some light snow has fallen making searching quite difficult. > The good news is they were able to get permission to hunt on some > private property and have found a few smaller pieces. They would like > to offer them up to Canadian residents only as they would need > permission to export them out of the country. So if you live in Canada > and would like to purchase one they have three pieces weighing 10-25 > grams. The selling price is $50 per gram. They will be leaving within > 12 hours so if you are interested in buying one please email McCartney > ASAP so he can ship them before he leaves the country. > He will have access to the internet later tonight so please email him > your request. > > mccartney at blackbearddata.com > > > Mike > > > Mike Jensen Meteorites > 16730 E Ada PL > Aurora, CO 80017-3137 > USA > 720-949-6220 > IMCA 4264 > website: www.jensenmeteorites.com > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From gsac at gmx.net Fri Dec 5 20:22:20 2008 From: gsac at gmx.net (Alexander Seidel) Date: Sat, 06 Dec 2008 02:22:20 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] More on new Canadian meteorite In-Reply-To: References: <6f9da8300812050800y5c430a58ydb55ca00442ef8ab@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20081206012220.193030@gmx.net> > Anyone got an idea on the type for the meteorite yet? A reliable answer to this will probably influence a final price, besides the fact alone that it is a fresh Canadian fall with a remarkable TKW. I mean, even if it were narrowed down to being nothing but just an ordinary chondrite, it would make quite a difference if it were an LL3.x or, let?s say, another mainstream H5 or L6, right? Well, someone will have cut one or more specimens in the meantime, and the very first question - whether it is an ordinary chondrite or not - should be resolved by now, without much more in-depth analysis. Any news here? Alex Berlin/Germany From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Fri Dec 5 21:05:38 2008 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 18:05:38 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale In-Reply-To: <006c01c9573f$f787fb50$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: <939478.36431.qm@web110205.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Martin, there are huge differences with these high-priced falls. No one could question Puerto Lapice, it sold out in minutes even at astronomical prices. less than 600 grams recovered, deserves every penny of the high price. Cali, 10 stones, 7 smashed houses, Colombia's first recovered fall, less than 500 grams TKW, H/L4, again, the market ate that one up, there is not a speck for sale as far as I know. Deserved the high price. Carancas, world-news making meteorite, little survived, Peru's first recovered fall, crater maker, what is not to like? Market absorbed it all, some straggler pieces dropped the price, but more due to market tapped out and world economic collapse than being overpriced. Moss, What more is there to say? The first CO3 fall in 60 years, NORWAY fall, all of 3.5 kilos recovered, 40% of which is in OSLO museum. That one deserved every penny it got, and how much Moss do you see out there these days? Zunhua, China house smasher, one stone, and when I started selling, there was just crumbs available. Later some large pieces were taken out of hiding, so price I think has come down a bit on that one. But not due to massive weight or anything. Hosur, I dint think it should be more than a few $$$$ gram, large fall, massive pieces, and from India, already making it problematic. I do not own any. Canada, this is different, we already know that hundreds of stones have been recovered, with a TKW likely already over 50 kilograms. The fireball videos suggest hundreds of kilos will be found, it is also a H type, so not rare. This will not sustain $50.00 gram, and should not. This one will stabilize at a low-mid price. I can't wait to get/find one, but I will wait for the winter freeze to end before I go up there! Martin, you see, I can easily make an argument for all of the recent falls and their high prices. This can not be made of the new Canadian fall, at least not at this time. Should something happen and not much more found or allowed out of Canada, well, then the sky is the limit. Michael Farmer --- On Fri, 12/5/08, Martin Altmann wrote: > From: Martin Altmann > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 6:14 PM > Humm, > > Villalbeto, Moss, La Mancha/La Pice, Carancas, Cali, > Zunhua, Hosur..... > > to me there seems to be an evident trend, that new falls > get much higher > paid, than all the years before. 4 of the world-record > prices for new falls > happened the recent few years. > > Exceptions are the nevertheless marvellous falls from > North-Africa. > > So 50$ appears not so unusual to me. > > Who offers first, makes the pace. > Whether this price is more justified or less justified > won't depend on the > tkw which will be recovered, it will depend on how much > material will be > allowed to be exported. Two main price factors exist for a > meteorite. Type > of course, but the same important: availability. > > Pattern for new falls: > 1) First expensive - few offerers, collectors worried to > miss out... > 2) Falling prices, more providers, more material > 3) Raising prices, often up to a level higher to the first > offers, cause the > stuff has gone. > > Speed, with which that happens, depends on how much > material is set free and > on how many sellers get involved. > > In worst case, step 2 won't take place. > > But that's nothing new, all know that. > > So you can hope with the new fall, that large quantities > will be exported > or/and that Heence&Koons get some in, so that it ends > offered by many > collectors and on ebay too, > and if you're lucky, you will catch it at 5$ or 10$. > > But you can be not so lucky, in waiting, waiting....and > only smaller > quantities will hit the market, and after a while you will > have to pay more > than 50$, cause most could have been gone. > > Best! > Martin > > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im > Auftrag von Roman > Gesendet: Samstag, 6. Dezember 2008 01:22 > An: Mike Jensen > Cc: metlist > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for > sale > > Good Guys, Great hunting skills, but no Canadian should pay > that price! > Cheers, > > Roman Jirasek > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Jensen" > > To: "Meteorite Mailing List" > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 12:03 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for > sale > > > > Hi All > > I am posting this for McCartney Taylor who has no > access to the > > internet right now. He and Sonny have been hunting for > pieces of the > > new Canadian fall. He said that about 90% of the > strewnfield is > > impossible to hunt as Alan Hildebrand has secured it > for his teams to > > hunt. > > McCartney also mentioned that people from all around > the area are > > hunting on private property without permission. Most > of that might be > > over as some light snow has fallen making searching > quite difficult. > > The good news is they were able to get permission to > hunt on some > > private property and have found a few smaller pieces. > They would like > > to offer them up to Canadian residents only as they > would need > > permission to export them out of the country. So if > you live in Canada > > and would like to purchase one they have three pieces > weighing 10-25 > > grams. The selling price is $50 per gram. They will be > leaving within > > 12 hours so if you are interested in buying one please > email McCartney > > ASAP so he can ship them before he leaves the country. > > He will have access to the internet later tonight so > please email him > > your request. > > > > mccartney at blackbearddata.com > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > Mike Jensen Meteorites > > 16730 E Ada PL > > Aurora, CO 80017-3137 > > USA > > 720-949-6220 > > IMCA 4264 > > website: www.jensenmeteorites.com > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From MeteorHntr at aol.com Fri Dec 5 21:32:03 2008 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 21:32:03 EST Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale Message-ID: All, I agree that this probably will sell for much lower in the future...well at least I hope Supply and Demand will allow the prices to come down later because a lot of it to comes on the market. But we should keep something else in mind here: I don't know how much TKW Sonny and McCartney personally found on their trip, but it is entirely possible that they simply don't want to sell much if any. Maybe they are thinking "Hey, if someone wants these bad enough, we will let them go." If no one wants them bad enough, they might just be happy to retain the ownership for the long haul. If they hold on, and later tons hit the market, maybe they will drop their asking price. If later the values go up, then maybe they will raise their prices. Just because they are asking a certain prices doesn't really mean that is what it is worth it to the rest of the world, maybe that is just what it is worth to them? Steve Arnold #1 www.SteveArnoldMeteorite.com **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Fri Dec 5 21:36:50 2008 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 18:36:50 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <784320.46098.qm@web110204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> I am not sure the discussion really centers on their asking price of $50.00 gram. It sort of morphed from Canadian Government buying price to retail price, to initial price etc. Someone suggested a piece be sold on eBay to set the price. Well, that was done with Cali and Puerto Lapice, and the price was very high. But eBay will never set a price. Show me 50 Sikhote-Alin auctions and I will show you 50 different gram prices for Sikhote-Alin. My part in this is simply to sort of separate why some recent falls set record prices, and others seem to be down to earth, and where the Canada fall will likely end up. I sure do hope there is a lot, I want to find some and sell some and buy some, and the more material, the better for all. Canada can be happy, there will be room for both scientists and collectors to get their fill. Michael Farmer --- On Fri, 12/5/08, MeteorHntr at aol.com wrote: > From: MeteorHntr at aol.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 7:32 PM > All, > > I agree that this probably will sell for much lower in the > future...well at > least I hope Supply and Demand will allow the prices to > come down later > because a lot of it to comes on the market. > > But we should keep something else in mind here: I don't > know how much TKW > Sonny and McCartney personally found on their trip, but it > is entirely possible > that they simply don't want to sell much if any. Maybe > they are thinking > "Hey, if someone wants these bad enough, we will let > them go." If no one wants > them bad enough, they might just be happy to retain the > ownership for the > long haul. > > If they hold on, and later tons hit the market, maybe they > will drop their > asking price. If later the values go up, then maybe they > will raise their > prices. > > Just because they are asking a certain prices doesn't > really mean that is > what it is worth it to the rest of the world, maybe that > is just what it is > worth to them? > > Steve Arnold #1 > www.SteveArnoldMeteorite.com > > **************Make your life easier with all your friends, > email, and > favorite sites in one place. Try it now. > (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mccartney at blackbearddata.com Sat Dec 6 00:02:25 2008 From: mccartney at blackbearddata.com (McCartney Taylor) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 23:02:25 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] McCartney's News from the Canadian Fall Message-ID: The hunting is over, 5-10 cm of snow is predicted tonight. More fell last night. Searching is all but impossible at this point. The weather has been abnormally snow free up till this week. We have had the luck of securing 5% of the strewnfield. We also had the luck of a really great landowner at that. We've had to forfeit a sizable portion of our finds to this land owner, who fully deserves it for his co-operation with us. In fact, he deputized us to police his property and kick off the plethora of trespassers that was rampant after the news aired locally. The stone looks like an H6, but I'm not qualified to make a call on that. I do know that we're seeing alot of secondary crust, so perhaps this thing blew high? Sonny spotted some veining in some of his stones. I've managed to mainly find fully crusted individuals. I want everyone to know, my luggage was lost coming into Canada. So I searched in -22 Celsius with the clothes on my back that I wore on the plane. If you think you are a meteorite hunter, you will know when you crawl on your hands and knees looking for pee sized meteorites in -22C. You'll either cut it, or go home. Me...I'm still here. The fall looks big. But after today, the material coming out is going to stop. Most of the material we saw recovered was stolen. It will be claimed 'roadway'. I even heard of some falling on crown lands 10 km away! Interviews done indicate 15 'pops' when the fireball blew. It was a hell of a show, I hear. One person recalled his tin roof sounding like it was hit by hail stones. My best guess on TKW is about 35kg of which 30kg is in the hands of the Mitchell family/Dr Hildebrand. The Mitchell have expressed no interest in selling. The few locals who have offered material for sell are asking so much I can't touch it. Its that bad. Today we were interviewed by Canadian Broadcasting. Sonny did well in expressing space enthusiasm, while I did a short stint on the science and ballistics of the fall. Then we took the camera guy hunting. To my stunned eyes, we stumbled on a meteorite while walking 20m forward to find a shoot spot. That was caught on film. (68grams) Then within 20m we found a tiny 2nd one. Frilling amazing. They made a wrap because they were freezing and left. What totally killed me, was when I went back to hunting, I noticed the camera guy had STEPPED on another meteorite, about 25g. LOL! Funny funny. best -mt From michael at spacerocksinc.com Sat Dec 6 00:07:19 2008 From: michael at spacerocksinc.com (Michael Johnson) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 21:07:19 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Pictue of the Day - December 6, 2008 Message-ID: <30707243.2190461228540039709.JavaMail.root@mbs4.homesteadmail.com> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/December_6_2008.html From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Sat Dec 6 00:44:52 2008 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 21:44:52 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] McCartney's News from the Canadian Fall In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <463500.72455.qm@web110204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Man, I wish I was there, but with just returning from a 23 day expedition to the other side of the planet and going to Japan Monday, I had no chance to make it. You say pieces are claimed 10 km away, that should be no problem, that is 6 miles, a normal strewnfield is that large, and of course, could be triple that for a truly huge fall, which this has the earmarks of. I envy you guys today though, not the cold part, but the finding of new fall stones, that gets my heart racing! Mike --- On Fri, 12/5/08, McCartney Taylor wrote: > From: McCartney Taylor > Subject: [meteorite-list] McCartney's News from the Canadian Fall > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 10:02 PM > The hunting is over, 5-10 cm of snow is predicted tonight. > More fell last night. Searching is all but impossible at > this point. The weather has been abnormally snow free up > till this week. > > We have had the luck of securing 5% of the strewnfield. We > also had the luck of a really great landowner at that. > We've had to forfeit a sizable portion of our finds to > this land owner, who fully deserves it for his co-operation > with us. In fact, he deputized us to police his property > and kick off the plethora of trespassers that was rampant > after the news aired locally. > > The stone looks like an H6, but I'm not qualified to > make a call on that. I do know that we're seeing alot > of secondary crust, so perhaps this thing blew high? Sonny > spotted some veining in some of his stones. I've > managed to mainly find fully crusted individuals. > > I want everyone to know, my luggage was lost coming into > Canada. So I searched in -22 Celsius with the clothes on my > back that I wore on the plane. If you think you are a > meteorite hunter, you will know when you crawl on your hands > and knees looking for pee sized meteorites in -22C. > You'll either cut it, or go home. Me...I'm still > here. > > The fall looks big. But after today, the material coming > out is going to stop. Most of the material we saw recovered > was stolen. It will be claimed 'roadway'. I even > heard of some falling on crown lands 10 km away! > > Interviews done indicate 15 'pops' when the > fireball blew. It was a hell of a show, I hear. One person > recalled his tin roof sounding like it was hit by hail > stones. > > My best guess on TKW is about 35kg of which 30kg is in the > hands of the Mitchell family/Dr Hildebrand. The Mitchell > have expressed no interest in selling. The few locals who > have offered material for sell are asking so much I > can't touch it. Its that bad. > > Today we were interviewed by Canadian Broadcasting. Sonny > did well in expressing space enthusiasm, while I did a short > stint on the science and ballistics of the fall. Then we > took the camera guy hunting. To my stunned eyes, we > stumbled on a meteorite while walking 20m forward to find a > shoot spot. That was caught on film. (68grams) Then within > 20m we found a tiny 2nd one. Frilling amazing. They made a > wrap because they were freezing and left. What totally > killed me, was when I went back to hunting, I noticed the > camera guy had STEPPED on another meteorite, about 25g. > LOL! Funny funny. > > best > -mt > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From yellowengine at earthlink.net Sat Dec 6 00:53:48 2008 From: yellowengine at earthlink.net (RJP) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 23:53:48 -0600 (GMT-06:00) Subject: [meteorite-list] McCartney's News from the Canadian Fall Message-ID: <7392929.1228542828905.JavaMail.root@elwamui-muscovy.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Great news! Too bad Canada doesn't have free export laws like we have here in the U.S. So.. when do we get to see some photos? It's the next best thing to being there, without the cold. Have a warm evening, Ryan From mccartney at blackbearddata.com Sat Dec 6 00:54:07 2008 From: mccartney at blackbearddata.com (McCartney Taylor) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 23:54:07 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Claimed find on Crown Land in Canada Message-ID: <6293120f483f4a2fb68af223d89ac3a2@ucv1.vhostdns.com> Its total BS. The nearest crown land is sideways 10km. Not along the axis, simply the nearest crown land where someone who stole a rock off Ian Mitchell ranch could claim it and keep it. Mike you didn't believe the Cali, Columbia finds that were hundreds of km away in FARC territory either?... Most claim it hit a roadway. Its going to be a chronic claim from here on. The 13kg mass was originally claimed to be a roadway find, until Dr. Hilebrand browbeat the finder to give it back to Alister Mitchell who's land it was stolen from. That confrontation occurred at our hotel a few days before we got there. Just to clarify. -mt -------- Original Message -------- > From: Michael Farmer > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 11:45 PM > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, mccartney at blackbearddata.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] McCartney's News from the Canadian Fall > > Man, I wish I was there, but with just returning from a 23 day expedition to the other side of the planet and going to Japan Monday, I had no chance to make it. > You say pieces are claimed 10 km away, that should be no problem, that is 6 miles, a normal strewnfield is that large, and of course, could be triple that for a truly huge fall, which this has the earmarks of. I envy you guys today though, not the cold part, but the finding of new fall stones, that gets my heart racing! > Mike > > > > > --- On Fri, 12/5/08, McCartney Taylor wrote: > > > From: McCartney Taylor > > Subject: [meteorite-list] McCartney's News from the Canadian Fall > > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 10:02 PM > > The hunting is over, 5-10 cm of snow is predicted tonight. > > More fell last night. Searching is all but impossible at > > this point. The weather has been abnormally snow free up > > till this week. > > > > We have had the luck of securing 5% of the strewnfield. We > > also had the luck of a really great landowner at that. > > We've had to forfeit a sizable portion of our finds to > > this land owner, who fully deserves it for his co-operation > > with us. In fact, he deputized us to police his property > > and kick off the plethora of trespassers that was rampant > > after the news aired locally. > > > > The stone looks like an H6, but I'm not qualified to > > make a call on that. I do know that we're seeing alot > > of secondary crust, so perhaps this thing blew high? Sonny > > spotted some veining in some of his stones. I've > > managed to mainly find fully crusted individuals. > > > > I want everyone to know, my luggage was lost coming into > > Canada. So I searched in -22 Celsius with the clothes on my > > back that I wore on the plane. If you think you are a > > meteorite hunter, you will know when you crawl on your hands > > and knees looking for pee sized meteorites in -22C. > > You'll either cut it, or go home. Me...I'm still > > here. > > > > The fall looks big. But after today, the material coming > > out is going to stop. Most of the material we saw recovered > > was stolen. It will be claimed 'roadway'. I even > > heard of some falling on crown lands 10 km away! > > > > Interviews done indicate 15 'pops' when the > > fireball blew. It was a hell of a show, I hear. One person > > recalled his tin roof sounding like it was hit by hail > > stones. > > > > My best guess on TKW is about 35kg of which 30kg is in the > > hands of the Mitchell family/Dr Hildebrand. The Mitchell > > have expressed no interest in selling. The few locals who > > have offered material for sell are asking so much I > > can't touch it. Its that bad. > > > > Today we were interviewed by Canadian Broadcasting. Sonny > > did well in expressing space enthusiasm, while I did a short > > stint on the science and ballistics of the fall. Then we > > took the camera guy hunting. To my stunned eyes, we > > stumbled on a meteorite while walking 20m forward to find a > > shoot spot. That was caught on film. (68grams) Then within > > 20m we found a tiny 2nd one. Frilling amazing. They made a > > wrap because they were freezing and left. What totally > > killed me, was when I went back to hunting, I noticed the > > camera guy had STEPPED on another meteorite, about 25g. > > LOL! Funny funny. > > > > best > > -mt > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Sat Dec 6 01:10:01 2008 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 22:10:01 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Claimed find on Crown Land in Canada Message-ID: <512829.91445.qm@web110202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> I am not there so I have no idea of the strewnfield. 1o kilometers Is not the same as hundreds. All the bs makes it a perfectly normal fall though. Wait till you get anal-probed at the airport tomorrow. Dotnt be surprised if they have a trap waiting for you. Mike Sent from my iPhone Michael On Dec 5, 2008, at 10:54 PM, "McCartney Taylor" wrote: Its total BS. The nearest crown land is sideways 10km. Not along the axis, simply the nearest crown land where someone who stole a rock off Ian Mitchell ranch could claim it and keep it. Mike you didn't believe the Cali, Columbia finds that were hundreds of km away in FARC territory either?... Most claim it hit a roadway. Its going to be a chronic claim from here on. The 13kg mass was originally claimed to be a roadway find, until Dr. Hilebrand browbeat the finder to give it back to Alister Mitchell who's land it was stolen from. That confrontation occurred at our hotel a few days before we got there. Just to clarify. -mt -------- Original Message -------- From: Michael Farmer Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 11:45 PM To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, mccartney at blackbearddata.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] McCartney's News from the Canadian Fall Man, I wish I was there, but with just returning from a 23 day expedition to the other side of the planet and going to Japan Monday, I had no chance to make it. You say pieces are claimed 10 km away, that should be no problem, that is 6 miles, a normal strewnfield is that large, and of course, could be triple that for a truly huge fall, which this has the earmarks of. I envy you guys today though, not the cold part, but the finding of new fall stones, that gets my heart racing! Mike --- On Fri, 12/5/08, McCartney Taylor wrote: From: McCartney Taylor Subject: [meteorite-list] McCartney's News from the Canadian Fall To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 10:02 PM The hunting is over, 5-10 cm of snow is predicted tonight. More fell last night. Searching is all but impossible at this point. The weather has been abnormally snow free up till this week. We have had the luck of securing 5% of the strewnfield. We also had the luck of a really great landowner at that. We've had to forfeit a sizable portion of our finds to this land owner, who fully deserves it for his co-operation with us. In fact, he deputized us to police his property and kick off the plethora of trespassers that was rampant after the news aired locally. The stone looks like an H6, but I'm not qualified to make a call on that. I do know that we're seeing alot of secondary crust, so perhaps this thing blew high? Sonny spotted some veining in some of his stones. I've managed to mainly find fully crusted individuals. I want everyone to know, my luggage was lost coming into Canada. So I searched in -22 Celsius with the clothes on my back that I wore on the plane. If you think you are a meteorite hunter, you will know when you crawl on your hands and knees looking for pee sized meteorites in -22C. You'll either cut it, or go home. Me...I'm still here. The fall looks big. But after today, the material coming out is going to stop. Most of the material we saw recovered was stolen. It will be claimed 'roadway'. I even heard of some falling on crown lands 10 km away! Interviews done indicate 15 'pops' when the fireball blew. It was a hell of a show, I hear. One person recalled his tin roof sounding like it was hit by hail stones. My best guess on TKW is about 35kg of which 30kg is in the hands of the Mitchell family/Dr Hildebrand. The Mitchell have expressed no interest in selling. The few locals who have offered material for sell are asking so much I can't touch it. Its that bad. Today we were interviewed by Canadian Broadcasting. Sonny did well in expressing space enthusiasm, while I did a short stint on the science and ballistics of the fall. Then we took the camera guy hunting. To my stunned eyes, we stumbled on a meteorite while walking 20m forward to find a shoot spot. That was caught on film. (68grams) Then within 20m we found a tiny 2nd one. Frilling amazing. They made a wrap because they were freezing and left. What totally killed me, was when I went back to hunting, I noticed the camera guy had STEPPED on another meteorite, about 25g. LOL! Funny funny. best -mt ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From dmerchan at rochester.rr.com Sat Dec 6 02:58:02 2008 From: dmerchan at rochester.rr.com (Don Merchant) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 02:58:02 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale References: <784320.46098.qm@web110204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002101c95778$5daf9590$6401a8c0@donaldmerchant> I wanted to add my 2 cents to this......well actually my $50.00 to this post for the new Canadian Meteorite for Sale. One of the must categories I like to a collect in my collection are Recent or New Witnessed Falls, even if their not Hammers. A Meteorite being New /Recent/Witnessed and sharing the World Major News Stories carries a more desire for me to want a part of that history!! So with that said if anyone comes across a 1 gm or 2 gm piece or can relay this email to a reputable source willing to sell this meteorite to me for $50 a gm for 1 to 2 grams, have them please contact me ASAP. I will make an official request for this meteorite here and now. My feeling is that this offer will not be accepted anytime soon. Why? Because when something new comes along it seems the price is usually put higher then it should be at first regardless of it's composition. Yes you will get buyers willing at any cost to have a piece and there's nothing wrong with sellers/dealers making a few bucks for the work/efforts involved, I understand and accept this. But... to control the price the true power is in the Buyers. If the Buyers don't buy at that set price then eventually it is lowered until Buyers will buy. There really is truth in the power of numbers, meaning if all us collectors stick together and do not buy, the price will eventually come down. A dealer can say well heck with it I'll keep it in my collection but...sooner then later that dealer will have a big collection and no revenue which will eventually lead to a real IMPACT financially that the dealer wants no part of, especially in his/her collection! So I'm not gonna save face here.. lol I am a collector with a love for this hobby and weakness for this hobby. I figure if I can get this meteorite for $50 a gm now, I would be saving money instead of my passion for meteorites corrupting my common sense to hold off until prices drop. I always seem to allow my self to get lured in like a B-ass because I'm weak, I need it, I want it, I can't wait lol! I know many of you out there feel my PAIN!! So.....I have $100 set aside for a 2 gm. piece for the first legit seller to contact me for the exchange! I will keep all of you posted on this offer and how long it takes! By the way I meant no offence in this email to ANY Collector, Seller or Dealer in any way shape or form, I can only say just get that 2 gm. piece to me NOW!! lol Sincerely Don Merchant IMCA #0960 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Farmer" To: ; Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 9:36 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale >I am not sure the discussion really centers on their asking price of $50.00 >gram. It sort of morphed from Canadian Government buying price to retail >price, to initial price etc. Someone suggested a piece be sold on eBay to >set the price. Well, that was done with Cali and Puerto Lapice, and the >price was very high. But eBay will never set a price. Show me 50 >Sikhote-Alin auctions and I will show you 50 different gram prices for >Sikhote-Alin. > My part in this is simply to sort of separate why some recent falls set > record prices, and others seem to be down to earth, and where the Canada > fall will likely end up. I sure do hope there is a lot, I want to find > some and sell some and buy some, and the more material, the better for > all. Canada can be happy, there will be room for both scientists and > collectors to get their fill. > > Michael Farmer > > > --- On Fri, 12/5/08, MeteorHntr at aol.com wrote: > >> From: MeteorHntr at aol.com >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale >> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 7:32 PM >> All, >> >> I agree that this probably will sell for much lower in the >> future...well at >> least I hope Supply and Demand will allow the prices to >> come down later >> because a lot of it to comes on the market. >> >> But we should keep something else in mind here: I don't >> know how much TKW >> Sonny and McCartney personally found on their trip, but it >> is entirely possible >> that they simply don't want to sell much if any. Maybe >> they are thinking >> "Hey, if someone wants these bad enough, we will let >> them go." If no one wants >> them bad enough, they might just be happy to retain the >> ownership for the >> long haul. >> >> If they hold on, and later tons hit the market, maybe they >> will drop their >> asking price. If later the values go up, then maybe they >> will raise their >> prices. >> >> Just because they are asking a certain prices doesn't >> really mean that is >> what it is worth it to the rest of the world, maybe that >> is just what it is >> worth to them? >> >> Steve Arnold #1 >> www.SteveArnoldMeteorite.com >> >> **************Make your life easier with all your friends, >> email, and >> favorite sites in one place. Try it now. >> (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From entropydave at ntlworld.com Sat Dec 6 05:06:50 2008 From: entropydave at ntlworld.com (Dave Harris) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 10:06:50 -0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] Portales Valley slice -ebay AD Message-ID: Hi folks, the last few hours for the 29g full slice of PV... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=270310190635 thanks dave IMCA #0092 Sec.BIMS. www.bimsociety.org From psc2410xi at yahoo.com Sat Dec 6 08:10:51 2008 From: psc2410xi at yahoo.com (Don Rawlings) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 05:10:51 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale In-Reply-To: <002101c95778$5daf9590$6401a8c0@donaldmerchant> Message-ID: <972537.11401.qm@web59316.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Unfortunately, a 2 gram piece for $100- today will probably sell on ebay for $10- next August. That is my prediction. Don Rawlings --- On Sat, 12/6/08, Don Merchant wrote: > From: Don Merchant > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale > To: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, MeteorHntr at aol.com > Cc: "Don Merchant" > Date: Saturday, December 6, 2008, 2:58 AM > I wanted to add my 2 cents to this......well actually my > $50.00 to this post for the new Canadian Meteorite for Sale. > One of the must categories I like to a collect in my > collection are Recent or New Witnessed Falls, even if their > not Hammers. A Meteorite being New /Recent/Witnessed and > sharing the World Major News Stories carries a more desire > for me to want a part of that history!! So with that said if > anyone comes across a 1 gm or 2 gm piece or can relay this > email to a reputable source willing to sell this meteorite > to me for $50 a gm for 1 to 2 grams, have them please > contact me ASAP. I will make an official request for this > meteorite here and now. My feeling is that this offer will > not be accepted anytime soon. Why? Because when something > new comes along it seems the price is usually put higher > then it should be at first regardless of it's > composition. Yes you will get buyers willing at any cost to > have a piece and there's nothing wrong with > sellers/dealers making a few bucks for the work/efforts > involved, I understand and accept this. But... to control > the price the true power is in the Buyers. If the Buyers > don't buy at that set price then eventually it is > lowered until Buyers will buy. There really is truth in the > power of numbers, meaning if all us collectors stick > together and do not buy, the price will eventually come > down. A dealer can say well heck with it I'll keep it in > my collection but...sooner then later that dealer will have > a big collection and no revenue which will eventually lead > to a real IMPACT financially that the dealer wants no part > of, especially in his/her collection! So I'm not gonna > save face here.. lol I am a collector with a love for this > hobby and weakness for this hobby. I figure if I can get > this meteorite for $50 a gm now, I would be saving money > instead of my passion for meteorites corrupting my common > sense to hold off until prices drop. I always seem to allow > my self to get lured in like a B-ass because I'm weak, I > need it, I want it, I can't wait lol! I know many of you > out there feel my PAIN!! So.....I have $100 set aside for a > 2 gm. piece for the first legit seller to contact me for the > exchange! I will keep all of you posted on this offer and > how long it takes! By the way I meant no offence in this > email to ANY Collector, Seller or Dealer in any way shape or > form, I can only say just get that 2 gm. piece to me NOW!! > lol > Sincerely > Don Merchant > IMCA #0960 > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael > Farmer" > To: ; > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 9:36 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for > sale > > > > I am not sure the discussion really centers on their > asking price of $50.00 gram. It sort of morphed from > Canadian Government buying price to retail price, to initial > price etc. Someone suggested a piece be sold on eBay to set > the price. Well, that was done with Cali and Puerto Lapice, > and the price was very high. But eBay will never set a > price. Show me 50 Sikhote-Alin auctions and I will show you > 50 different gram prices for Sikhote-Alin. > > My part in this is simply to sort of separate why some > recent falls set record prices, and others seem to be down > to earth, and where the Canada fall will likely end up. I > sure do hope there is a lot, I want to find some and sell > some and buy some, and the more material, the better for > all. Canada can be happy, there will be room for both > scientists and collectors to get their fill. > > > > Michael Farmer > > > > > > --- On Fri, 12/5/08, MeteorHntr at aol.com > wrote: > > > >> From: MeteorHntr at aol.com > > >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian > Meteorite for sale > >> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >> Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 7:32 PM > >> All, > >> > >> I agree that this probably will sell for much > lower in the > >> future...well at > >> least I hope Supply and Demand will allow the > prices to > >> come down later > >> because a lot of it to comes on the market. > >> > >> But we should keep something else in mind here: I > don't > >> know how much TKW > >> Sonny and McCartney personally found on their > trip, but it > >> is entirely possible > >> that they simply don't want to sell much if > any. Maybe > >> they are thinking > >> "Hey, if someone wants these bad enough, we > will let > >> them go." If no one wants > >> them bad enough, they might just be happy to > retain the > >> ownership for the > >> long haul. > >> > >> If they hold on, and later tons hit the market, > maybe they > >> will drop their > >> asking price. If later the values go up, then > maybe they > >> will raise their > >> prices. > >> > >> Just because they are asking a certain prices > doesn't > >> really mean that is > >> what it is worth it to the rest of the world, > maybe that > >> is just what it is > >> worth to them? > >> > >> Steve Arnold #1 > >> www.SteveArnoldMeteorite.com > >> > >> **************Make your life easier with all your > friends, > >> email, and > >> favorite sites in one place. Try it now. > >> > (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) > >> ______________________________________________ > >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com > >> Meteorite-list mailing list > >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mccartney at blackbearddata.com Sat Dec 6 10:25:15 2008 From: mccartney at blackbearddata.com (McCartney Taylor) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 09:25:15 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Canadian Material for Americans has to wait Message-ID: For the Americans and other non-Canadians emailing me, you all need to wait. We've got a Canadian colleague applying for customs paperwork next week. This will hold our material in Canada for several months as the Canadian Institutions will have an option to buy our material. Worst case should be 6 months. IMCA 2760 -mt From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com Sat Dec 6 10:29:36 2008 From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 07:29:36 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] new canadian fall Message-ID: <779015.43813.qm@web57804.mail.re3.yahoo.com> I just want to give a nice plug to mac and sonny for doing such a great job giving us these news updates of this fall.But sure as we are all human,I know how people sometimes work,I bet there will some surfacing in tucson,2009.Just wait and see.Again way to go the 2 diligent meteorite hunters for giving these great updates. Steve R.Arnold,Chicago! http://chicagometeorites.net/ From gldfinder at yahoo.com Sat Dec 6 11:03:48 2008 From: gldfinder at yahoo.com (Larry Sloan) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 08:03:48 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Denver Meteor Fireball Message-ID: <95019.13056.qm@web39205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi List Thanks to Denny Asher who pointed me to this spectacular news story. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rH-NTr4cc04 Here I am at Portalas headed south for the winter instead of home in Colorado. Larry Sloan From clp at alumni.caltech.edu Sat Dec 6 11:14:26 2008 From: clp at alumni.caltech.edu (Chris Peterson) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 09:14:26 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Denver Meteor Fireball References: <95019.13056.qm@web39205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: While the video is spectacular, this wasn't a meteor. It was a reentering Soyuz rocket body on January 4, 2007. Chris ***************************************** Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Sloan" To: Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 9:03 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Denver Meteor Fireball > Hi List > Thanks to Denny Asher who pointed me to this spectacular news story. > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rH-NTr4cc04 > > Here I am at Portalas headed south for the winter instead of home in > Colorado. > Larry Sloan From clp at alumni.caltech.edu Sat Dec 6 11:26:02 2008 From: clp at alumni.caltech.edu (Chris Peterson) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 09:26:02 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Another huge Colorado fireball- and I mean huge Message-ID: <176961636CB444D6AD3DAD310AF1CFF5@bellatrix> Sorry to disturb Mike Farmer, who's probably still in the wrong place, but I recorded my brightest ever fireball early this morning. I estimate it was magnitude -18, at least 100 times brighter than the full Moon. It exploded near Colorado Springs. I don't have much information yet, but the raw information and video is at http://www.cloudbait.com/meteor/data.php?recnum=24710 . It was a dark night; all the sky lighting and horizon silhouettes are caused by the meteor exploding. Chris ***************************************** Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com From jkg2 at cox.net Sat Dec 6 11:32:17 2008 From: jkg2 at cox.net (John Gwilliam) Date: Sat, 06 Dec 2008 09:32:17 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] -- SPAM -- Re: Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20081206163226.LWYI11567.fed1rmmtao104.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> My observation concerning new falls IPO is simple - there are some folks that the new material and they want it now. They are willing to pay the higher price. Those who wait usually...and I emphasize "usually" will get it at a much lower price. The two keys are timing and some good luck. John At 07:32 PM 12/5/2008, MeteorHntr at aol.com wrote: >All, > >I agree that this probably will sell for much lower in the future...well at >least I hope Supply and Demand will allow the prices to come down later >because a lot of it to comes on the market. > >But we should keep something else in mind here: I don't know how much TKW >Sonny and McCartney personally found on their trip, but it is >entirely possible >that they simply don't want to sell much if any. Maybe they are thinking >"Hey, if someone wants these bad enough, we will let them >go." If no one wants >them bad enough, they might just be happy to retain the ownership for the >long haul. > >If they hold on, and later tons hit the market, maybe they will drop their >asking price. If later the values go up, then maybe they will raise their >prices. > >Just because they are asking a certain prices doesn't really mean that is >what it is worth it to the rest of the world, maybe that is just what it is >worth to them? > >Steve Arnold #1 >www.SteveArnoldMeteorite.com > >**************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and >favorite sites in one place. Try it now. >(http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) >______________________________________________ >http://www.meteoritecentral.com >Meteorite-list mailing list >Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list John Gwilliam Too many people were born on third base and go through life thinking they hit a triple. From cynapse at charter.net Sat Dec 6 11:57:17 2008 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Sat, 06 Dec 2008 11:57:17 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Buzzard Coulee? Please let that be the name! In-Reply-To: <8CB24D5071F98DC-14B8-715@webmail-db15.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CB24D5071F98DC-14B8-715@webmail-db15.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: http://www.canada.com/saskatoonstarphoenix/news/third_page/story.html?id=d566c1a9-e9b6-4941-86b4-d3996a3e0620 Some great columns are best left unwritten Les MacPherson The StarPhoenix Saturday, December 06, 2008 Some of my favourite newspaper columns are the ones I didn't write. Consider, for example, the column I recently didn't write about the great meteorite, the disintegrated remains of which spectacularly fell to Earth the other week near Lloydminster. Scientists and treasure hunters by the hundreds promptly descended on the remote scene in hopes of finding fragments. By triangulating independent observations of the fireball, they reportedly had narrowed down the search area to about 10 square miles. Even so, I doubted they'd find so much as a particle. Ten square miles is a vast area to search for bits of blackened rock. In an area that size, you'd be lucky to find your way back to the car. It didn't help the fields would mostly be covered in stubble, pasture and bush and strewn with innumerable stones that are not meteorites. If you shanked a $5 golf ball into this stuff, you wouldn't bother to look for it. This, to me, is familiar territory. I have spent long hours combing exactly this kind of terrain for partridge or prairie chicken I've shot. In that case, the search area is just a few square yards and, still, a downed bird is exceedingly difficult to find. You have to almost step on it before you can see the thing. Finding fragments of a meteorite would be much more difficult, I thought. They'd be buried in the dirt like spent bullets, concealed under shrubbery and scattered among countless, look-alike stones blackened, not by a meteoric fusion crust, but by prairie dirt. You might as well try and pick fly specks out of pepper. My intention was to write a column expressing condolences for the meteorite hunters who were wasting their time. I would compare them to the dreamers who since the 1960s have fruitlessly scanned the airwaves for signals from space aliens. It's a bit sad to think of them waiting by the phone for 40 years. If they ever do get the call, they should let it ring a few times before answering so the aliens won't think they were waiting by the phone. I also meant to invoke in my column the equally fruitless search for life on Mars, still unconfirmed after dozens of unmanned spacecraft have flown by, orbited or landed on the inhospitable planet. Undismayed by the succession of dry holes, space agencies are planning further missions to seek out life on Mars. These would be the same kind of people who would scour the Earth to find an errant golf ball, no matter how long it takes. You have to admire their perseverance, so long as you're not playing behind them. My meteorite column would also make mention of the inauspicious omens. The area where it landed, for instance, is known as Buzzard Coulee. No successful project has ever been associated with a buzzard. I only hoped no searchers would get lost and find out why it's called Buzzard Coulee. I was just sitting down to chronicle the futility at Buzzard Coulee when all hell broke loose in Ottawa. Now preoccupied by a keystone coalition trying to hijack a government that Canadians just elected, I dropped the supercilious meteorite column in favour of indignant political commentary. Thus was I spared the profound embarrassment of predicting in print on the very day the first fragments were found that no fragment would ever be found. The first piece reportedly was discovered by a student with a team from the University of Calgary, who saw it embedded in pond ice. Pure luck, I thought at first. Even a blind hog occasionally finds an acorn. Except it wasn't luck. Searchers have since gathered more than 70 pieces, ranging in size from pea gravel to chunks as big as a soccer ball. What I haven't heard yet is of anyone who was searching and hasn't found a piece. That said, you have to wonder how many undistinguished field stones will be displayed on fireplace mantles as fragments of the famous Buzzard Coulee meteorite. Astronomers say it probably originated in the rocky asteroid belt between the orbits of Jupiter and Mars. Likely the 10-ton space rock was pulled out of orbit by Jupiter's gravity and then sent on a new trajectory that eventually intersected with Buzzard Coulee. What I'd like to know now is why no one saw it coming. lmacpherson at sp.canwest.com From yellowengine at earthlink.net Sat Dec 6 12:34:18 2008 From: yellowengine at earthlink.net (RJP) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 11:34:18 -0600 (GMT-06:00) Subject: [meteorite-list] Canadian Material for Americans has to wait Message-ID: <16461351.1228584858999.JavaMail.root@mswamui-andean.atl.sa.earthlink.net> I think the next time the U.S. has another significant fall (..like Park Forest), American collectors and instituntions should have first dibs on the material. You know, a good 3-6 month head start over non-Americans. I still don't have a nice piece for my collection, and I was in Park Forest for 2-3 days! I'll bet there are plently of other collectors who will agree with me on this one. Ryan "For the Americans and other non-Canadians emailing me, you all need to wait. We've got a Canadian colleague applying for customs paperwork next week. This will hold our material in Canada for several months as the Canadian Institutions will have an option to buy our material. Worst case should be 6 months. IMCA 2760 -mt" From yellowengine at earthlink.net Sat Dec 6 13:00:45 2008 From: yellowengine at earthlink.net (RJP) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 12:00:45 -0600 (GMT-06:00) Subject: [meteorite-list] Canadian Material for Americans has to wait Message-ID: <13753184.1228586445932.JavaMail.root@mswamui-andean.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Also, I just want to make notice that I did not, and have not contacted McCartney or Sonny in regards to acquiring a piece of this new fall. Laws are laws people, whether you agree with them or not. Ryan From MeteorHntr at aol.com Sat Dec 6 13:02:57 2008 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 13:02:57 EST Subject: [meteorite-list] Canadian Material for Americans has to wait Message-ID: Ryan, I'm not sure I understand your logic here. If you wished American Institutions would care enough to pay a fair retail price to the legal owners of new meteorites, then I think we would all agree with you. But America has the principles of freedom and property rights that go strongly against confiscation laws. I think the ACLU would even consider stepping in if such a law would be proposed. When I find anything that I think a museum or a research collection would like, either to purchase or to trade for, I eagerly approach them at the start. But most take so long to reply, or don't reply at all. Some do, but express that they are not interested. And then occasionally some do reply wanting to make a trade. But unlike in Canada, here in the States a very tiny percentage of institutions will pay cash for anything. And due to some of the red tape that is involved with some places, I would LOVE it if the transaction could happen in less than 6 months time. I think hoping for any bureaucracy to do anything in as little as 3 months is a bit overoptimistic. And I am not sure how if US institutions would have had first dibs on buying any and all of the Park Forest specimens found would have helped YOU get a Park Forest specimen for your collection? In fact, during your 2-3 days in Park Forest IF you had found something, and the government confiscated it from you, and paid you $1/g or $5/g or $20/g or whatever they determined was fair, my guess is that you probably would not like the idea so much. Steve Arnold #1 www.SteveArnoldMeteorites.com In a message dated 12/6/2008 11:34:33 A.M. Central Standard Time, yellowengine at earthlink.net writes: I think the next time the U.S. has another significant fall (..like Park Forest), American collectors and instituntions should have first dibs on the material. You know, a good 3-6 month head start over non-Americans. I still don't have a nice piece for my collection, and I was in Park Forest for 2-3 days! I'll bet there are plently of other collectors who will agree with me on this one. Ryan **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) From MeteorHntr at aol.com Sat Dec 6 13:07:06 2008 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 13:07:06 EST Subject: [meteorite-list] Canadian Material for Americans has to wait Message-ID: Ryan, There is no law in Canada that you can't contact McCartney or Sonny. In fact, you are free to buy whatever you want from them. The export laws only affect exporting of the specimens. No one has suggested that you can't own one of the rocks McCartney or Sonny found. You just can't take it (or ship it) over the border without first getting an export permit. Steve Arnold #1 www.SteveArnoldMeteorites.com In a message dated 12/6/2008 12:01:12 P.M. Central Standard Time, yellowengine at earthlink.net writes: Also, I just want to make notice that I did not, and have not contacted McCartney or Sonny in regards to acquiring a piece of this new fall. Laws are laws people, whether you agree with them or not. Ryan **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) From yellowengine at earthlink.net Sat Dec 6 13:23:25 2008 From: yellowengine at earthlink.net (RJP) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 12:23:25 -0600 (GMT-06:00) Subject: [meteorite-list] Canadian Material for Americans has to wait Message-ID: <19189932.1228587805415.JavaMail.root@mswamui-andean.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Yes, and that will take 3-6 months, so why even bother contacting them now? At this time next year pieces will be able to be obtained at a more realistic price, so you'll be better off waiting anyhow. And do you really think I beleive that none of it will get smuggled across that border into the U.S.? Like McCartney said... "you all need to wait." "Ryan, There is no law in Canada that you can't contact McCartney or Sonny. In fact, you are free to buy whatever you want from them. The export laws only affect exporting of the specimens. No one has suggested that you can't own one of the rocks McCartney or Sonny found. You just can't take it (or ship it) over the border without first getting an export permit. Steve Arnold #1 www.SteveArnoldMeteorites.com" From yellowengine at earthlink.net Sat Dec 6 13:40:06 2008 From: yellowengine at earthlink.net (RJP) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 12:40:06 -0600 (GMT-06:00) Subject: [meteorite-list] Canadian Material for Americans has to wait Message-ID: <3818352.1228588807064.JavaMail.root@mswamui-andean.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Perhaps I should have left out the word "Institutions". My intent was to discuss the acquisition by private collectors only, being that Institutions clearly have an unequal advantage when it comes to acquiring fresh falls. More so in Canada as opposed to the U.S., however. But when the government steps in and confiscates, thats just communistic. -----Original Message----- >From: MeteorHntr at aol.com >Sent: Dec 6, 2008 12:02 PM >To: yellowengine at earthlink.net, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, mccartney at blackbearddata.com >Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Canadian Material for Americans has to wait > >Ryan, > >I'm not sure I understand your logic here. > >If you wished American Institutions would care enough to pay a fair retail >price to the legal owners of new meteorites, then I think we would all agree >with you. > >But America has the principles of freedom and property rights that go >strongly against confiscation laws. I think the ACLU would even consider stepping >in if such a law would be proposed. > >When I find anything that I think a museum or a research collection would >like, either to purchase or to trade for, I eagerly approach them at the start. > But most take so long to reply, or don't reply at all. Some do, but >express that they are not interested. And then occasionally some do reply wanting >to make a trade. But unlike in Canada, here in the States a very tiny >percentage of institutions will pay cash for anything. > >And due to some of the red tape that is involved with some places, I would >LOVE it if the transaction could happen in less than 6 months time. I think >hoping for any bureaucracy to do anything in as little as 3 months is a bit >overoptimistic. > >And I am not sure how if US institutions would have had first dibs on buying >any and all of the Park Forest specimens found would have helped YOU get a >Park Forest specimen for your collection? > >In fact, during your 2-3 days in Park Forest IF you had found something, and >the government confiscated it from you, and paid you $1/g or $5/g or $20/g >or whatever they determined was fair, my guess is that you probably would not >like the idea so much. > >Steve Arnold #1 >www.SteveArnoldMeteorites.com > > >In a message dated 12/6/2008 11:34:33 A.M. Central Standard Time, >yellowengine at earthlink.net writes: >I think the next time the U.S. has another significant fall (..like Park >Forest), American collectors and instituntions should have first dibs on the >material. You know, a good 3-6 month head start over non-Americans. I still >don't have a nice piece for my collection, and I was in Park Forest for 2-3 days! > >I'll bet there are plently of other collectors who will agree with me on >this one. > >Ryan > >**************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and >favorite sites in one place. Try it now. >(http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) From cynapse at charter.net Sat Dec 6 14:05:34 2008 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Sat, 06 Dec 2008 14:05:34 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Canadian Material for Americans has to wait In-Reply-To: <13753184.1228586445932.JavaMail.root@mswamui-andean.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <13753184.1228586445932.JavaMail.root@mswamui-andean.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 6 Dec 2008 12:00:45 -0600 (GMT-06:00), you wrote: >Laws are laws people, whether you agree with them or not. Laws? Canada currently has no government. Its every man for himself! From romanj at sympatico.ca Sat Dec 6 14:12:02 2008 From: romanj at sympatico.ca (Roman) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 14:12:02 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Canadian Material for Americans has to wait References: <13753184.1228586445932.JavaMail.root@mswamui-andean.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <037d01c957d6$85889b30$6600a8c0@compaqsdg7ojf0> That cracked me up pretty good! Roman > Laws? Canada currently has no government. Its every man for himself! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darren Garrison" To: Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 2:05 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Canadian Material for Americans has to wait > On Sat, 6 Dec 2008 12:00:45 -0600 (GMT-06:00), you wrote: > >>Laws are laws people, whether you agree with them or not. > > Laws? Canada currently has no government. Its every man for himself! > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com Sat Dec 6 16:50:27 2008 From: michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com (Michael Gilmer) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 13:50:27 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Oh great market sages, enlighten me! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <528720.98724.qm@web58405.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi Folks! I have an opportunity to buy some meteorites from a fellow collector who is looking to free up some cash for Christmas. He has offered me some interesting pieces, and some of them are rare types. My knowledge of market prices on some of these pieces is lacking, so I am appealing to the group to give me some advice on these pieces. Are they a good buy with the intention to keep? (not to resell) 1) NWA 3151 brachinite, .214g "micro slice" for $38 2) NWA 3135 ureilite, 1.1g chunk with crust on one edge for $35 3) NWA 482 lunar, 28mg for $38 4) NWA 998 martian, 32mg piece for $50 I'm mainly interested in the first 3. I already have a 998 specimen, so I will probably pass on that one. Provenance is very good. #3 and #4 are from the Hupe collection, and I think the first 2 are as well, but I'll have to check on that. Thanks! MikeG ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale .......................................................... From MeteorHntr at aol.com Fri Dec 5 13:34:46 2008 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 13:34:46 EST Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale Message-ID: In a message dated 12/5/2008 12:16:00 P.M. Central Standard Time, star_wars_collector at yahoo.com writes: I agree 100% on this. $50 per gram is too high, the Carancas for example was $100 per gram at first, now it can be had for under $20 per gram. I have read several places that it is only valued at $1 - $10 per gram. I will wait a bit myself. Greg Greg and All, I tend to agree that the price MIGHT drop to $10/g, especially if there is a high degree of rusting on the specimens found later next year. However, there is a chance the Canadians might offer to buy all or most of the ones already found. If the land owners can get a tax credit on $50/g to donate them, everyone up there might be happy to donate them, and at a 50% tax rate, that is the same as getting $25/g cash in hand to the overtaxed Canadians. It sounds like most of the land owners are very wealthy, so money may not mean anything to them. They might donate them all and not even care about a tax break or cash values at all. If only a few kilos make it to the market place, then we could see the value be higher than $10/g. If we seen hundreds of rusty kilos coming onto the market, then we could see the prices end up way below $10/g. In any case, we probably will have to wait for the 6 months to pass to see what is not purchased by the Canadian Government. One thing is sure, if ALL the masses were put on a restricted Canadian only collector market, a few hundred kilos would probably sell for $0.10 a gram or even less. A smart thing might be to buy one specimen from Sonny and McCartney NOW at $50/g and then buy more later at $10/g and if the price goes down to under $1/g then buy so much more that you will have cost averaged your first purchase at $50/g down to a reasonable level. Of course, if you are one of those people that get a rush at owning the newest most famous meteorite that everyone is talking about around the water cooler, then how can you put a value on that??? :-) And also, realize that if you do buy a meteorite from Sonny and McCartney now, you are investing into field recovery. I seriously doubt they will make a profit on this trip even if they sold what little they found at $100/g, but if they can come close to breaking even, maybe next time they will again be able to afford to get on the scene early and find more. And at the very least, we should congratulate them on getting to the scene and making an effort. Good job guys, and congratulations! Steve Arnold #1 www.SteveArnoldMeteorites.com **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Sat Dec 6 17:47:19 2008 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 14:47:19 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <305460.26244.qm@web110213.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Steve, I am sorry, but your comment than they wont make profit at $50 or even $100 gram made me almost fall out of my chair! Lets see, a kilo at $50 gram = $50,000. Lets say half goes to the landowner, $25000.00 Plane ticket to Edmonton/Calgary/Saskatoon, all three less than $1000 if I want to go today. Rental car for a week, $500.00 Hotels and food for a week, another $800.00. Time, say $2500.00 other expenses, say another $1000 Still leaves over $18000.00 free. Please, what you are saying about values can be true, but lets not get retarded here. At that price some real money will be made for a week in the field. I should know, I have enough international hunts, and this one would be about the cheapest one out there. They deserve it, no question there, just dont try and say no profit will be made, that is a joke I have to call you on. International FALL chases I have done so I think I know about trip expedition expenses. Kendrapara, India Thuathe, Lesotho x 2 Bensour, Morocco Bilanga, Burkina Faso X 2 Berduc, Argentina Cali, colombia x 5 Carancas, Peru Ourique, Portugal Villabeto de la Pena, Spain Puerto Lapice, Spain Moss, Norway Tagish Lake, Canada --- On Fri, 12/5/08, MeteorHntr at aol.com wrote: > From: MeteorHntr at aol.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale > To: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 11:34 AM > In a message dated 12/5/2008 12:16:00 P.M. Central Standard > Time, > star_wars_collector at yahoo.com writes: > I agree 100% on this. $50 per gram is too high, the > Carancas for example was > $100 per gram at first, now it can be had for under $20 > per gram. > I have read several places that it is only valued at $1 - > $10 per gram. I > will wait a bit myself. > > Greg > > > Greg and All, > > I tend to agree that the price MIGHT drop to $10/g, > especially if there is a > high degree of rusting on the specimens found later next > year. > > However, there is a chance the Canadians might offer to > buy all or most of > the ones already found. > > If the land owners can get a tax credit on $50/g to donate > them, everyone up > there might be happy to donate them, and at a 50% tax > rate, that is the same > as getting $25/g cash in hand to the overtaxed Canadians. > > It sounds like most of the land owners are very wealthy, > so money may not > mean anything to them. They might donate them all and not > even care about a > tax break or cash values at all. > > If only a few kilos make it to the market place, then we > could see the value > be higher than $10/g. > > If we seen hundreds of rusty kilos coming onto the market, > then we could see > the prices end up way below $10/g. > > In any case, we probably will have to wait for the 6 months > to pass to see > what is not purchased by the Canadian Government. > > One thing is sure, if ALL the masses were put on a > restricted Canadian only > collector market, a few hundred kilos would probably sell > for $0.10 a gram or > even less. > > A smart thing might be to buy one specimen from Sonny and > McCartney NOW at > $50/g and then buy more later at $10/g and if the price > goes down to under > $1/g then buy so much more that you will have cost averaged > your first purchase > at $50/g down to a reasonable level. > > Of course, if you are one of those people that get a rush > at owning the > newest most famous meteorite that everyone is talking > about around the water > cooler, then how can you put a value on that??? > > :-) > > And also, realize that if you do buy a meteorite from > Sonny and McCartney > now, you are investing into field recovery. I seriously > doubt they will make a > profit on this trip even if they sold what little they > found at $100/g, but > if they can come close to breaking even, maybe next time > they will again be > able to afford to get on the scene early and find more. > > And at the very least, we should congratulate them on > getting to the scene > and making an effort. > > Good job guys, and congratulations! > > Steve Arnold #1 > www.SteveArnoldMeteorites.com > > **************Make your life easier with all your friends, > email, and > favorite sites in one place. Try it now. > (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com Sat Dec 6 17:56:10 2008 From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 14:56:10 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <368666.67545.qm@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> In my opinion, from the info I have seen I would be willing to pay more then $10 per gram for fresh material, however I do think $50 is simply too much for what looks to be an ordinary chondrite. I am hopefull that the material will not rust too bad during all this snow, and Im sure plenty of it will be available in Tucson as was metioned by someone else. That said, I would also like to buy a 2 gram or so piece of fresh material, but really would prefer not to pay much more then $20-$25 per gram... to me it would be worth that price, regardless of classification... my little girl keeps asking when I am getting one... This fall like the Carancas really got her interested in meteorites (this one even more) due to the media attention and wide availablitly of video footage. If anyone gets ahold of some and wants to sell or trade for a small sample, please let me know. Greg --- On Fri, 12/5/08, MeteorHntr at aol.com wrote: > From: MeteorHntr at aol.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale > To: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 1:34 PM > In a message dated 12/5/2008 12:16:00 P.M. Central Standard > Time, > star_wars_collector at yahoo.com writes: > I agree 100% on this. $50 per gram is too high, the > Carancas for example was > $100 per gram at first, now it can be had for under $20 > per gram. > I have read several places that it is only valued at $1 - > $10 per gram. I > will wait a bit myself. > > Greg > > > Greg and All, > > I tend to agree that the price MIGHT drop to $10/g, > especially if there is a > high degree of rusting on the specimens found later next > year. > > However, there is a chance the Canadians might offer to > buy all or most of > the ones already found. > > If the land owners can get a tax credit on $50/g to donate > them, everyone up > there might be happy to donate them, and at a 50% tax > rate, that is the same > as getting $25/g cash in hand to the overtaxed Canadians. > > It sounds like most of the land owners are very wealthy, > so money may not > mean anything to them. They might donate them all and not > even care about a > tax break or cash values at all. > > If only a few kilos make it to the market place, then we > could see the value > be higher than $10/g. > > If we seen hundreds of rusty kilos coming onto the market, > then we could see > the prices end up way below $10/g. > > In any case, we probably will have to wait for the 6 months > to pass to see > what is not purchased by the Canadian Government. > > One thing is sure, if ALL the masses were put on a > restricted Canadian only > collector market, a few hundred kilos would probably sell > for $0.10 a gram or > even less. > > A smart thing might be to buy one specimen from Sonny and > McCartney NOW at > $50/g and then buy more later at $10/g and if the price > goes down to under > $1/g then buy so much more that you will have cost averaged > your first purchase > at $50/g down to a reasonable level. > > Of course, if you are one of those people that get a rush > at owning the > newest most famous meteorite that everyone is talking > about around the water > cooler, then how can you put a value on that??? > > :-) > > And also, realize that if you do buy a meteorite from > Sonny and McCartney > now, you are investing into field recovery. I seriously > doubt they will make a > profit on this trip even if they sold what little they > found at $100/g, but > if they can come close to breaking even, maybe next time > they will again be > able to afford to get on the scene early and find more. > > And at the very least, we should congratulate them on > getting to the scene > and making an effort. > > Good job guys, and congratulations! > > Steve Arnold #1 > www.SteveArnoldMeteorites.com > > **************Make your life easier with all your friends, > email, and > favorite sites in one place. Try it now. > (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) From MeteorHntr at aol.com Sat Dec 6 17:59:27 2008 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 17:59:27 EST Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale Message-ID: In a message dated 12/6/2008 4:47:37 P.M. Central Standard Time, meteoriteguy at yahoo.com writes: Steve, I am sorry, but your comment than they wont make profit at $50 or even $100 gram made me almost fall out of my chair! Lets see, a kilo at $50 gram = $50,000. Lets say half goes to the landowner, $25000.00 I'm sorry Mike, I was not aware they found a kilo's worth and that they got to keep a full half of what they found. I assumed they only had a few (or maybe several) specimens that the two of them were splitting between themselves and selling. However, at $50/g they might only sell 100 grams worth anyway, and at that rate, they would only have $5,000 cash to split BEFORE expenses. While that might not make them too much profit cash wise, it might let them keep some souvenirs for their private collections as mementos of the adventure. Not all dealers/hunters put 100% of what they find into retail inventory. Some do like to hold some things back. Maybe the question should be asked of McCartney and Sonny as to what their logic is for pricing their pieces where they did? Steve **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Sat Dec 6 18:00:42 2008 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 15:00:42 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale In-Reply-To: <368666.67545.qm@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <252297.33905.qm@web110213.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> I highly doubt it will be in Tucson, if it is then it is illegal, and I would not touch it. India doesnt scare me much, but Canada sent people to Tokyo two years back to look for fossils. They don't play games. I doubt the meteorite will oxidize much, at these temps, there is no more liquid water so they should be perfectly preserved for the most part. Michael Farmer --- On Sat, 12/6/08, Greg Catterton wrote: > From: Greg Catterton > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Saturday, December 6, 2008, 3:56 PM > In my opinion, from the info I have seen I would be willing > to pay more then $10 per gram for fresh material, however I > do think $50 is simply too much for what looks to be an > ordinary chondrite. > I am hopefull that the material will not rust too bad > during all this snow, and Im sure plenty of it will be > available in Tucson as was metioned by someone else. > That said, I would also like to buy a 2 gram or so piece of > fresh material, but really would prefer not to pay much more > then $20-$25 per gram... to me it would be worth that price, > regardless of classification... my little girl keeps asking > when I am getting one... This fall like the Carancas really > got her interested in meteorites (this one even more) due to > the media attention and wide availablitly of video footage. > If anyone gets ahold of some and wants to sell or trade for > a small sample, please let me know. > > > Greg > > > > > --- On Fri, 12/5/08, MeteorHntr at aol.com > wrote: > > > From: MeteorHntr at aol.com > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian > Meteorite for sale > > To: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com, > meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 1:34 PM > > In a message dated 12/5/2008 12:16:00 P.M. Central > Standard > > Time, > > star_wars_collector at yahoo.com writes: > > I agree 100% on this. $50 per gram is too high, the > > Carancas for example was > > $100 per gram at first, now it can be had for under > $20 > > per gram. > > I have read several places that it is only valued at > $1 - > > $10 per gram. I > > will wait a bit myself. > > > > Greg > > > > > > Greg and All, > > > > I tend to agree that the price MIGHT drop to $10/g, > > especially if there is a > > high degree of rusting on the specimens found later > next > > year. > > > > However, there is a chance the Canadians might offer > to > > buy all or most of > > the ones already found. > > > > If the land owners can get a tax credit on $50/g to > donate > > them, everyone up > > there might be happy to donate them, and at a 50% tax > > rate, that is the same > > as getting $25/g cash in hand to the overtaxed > Canadians. > > > > It sounds like most of the land owners are very > wealthy, > > so money may not > > mean anything to them. They might donate them all > and not > > even care about a > > tax break or cash values at all. > > > > If only a few kilos make it to the market place, then > we > > could see the value > > be higher than $10/g. > > > > If we seen hundreds of rusty kilos coming onto the > market, > > then we could see > > the prices end up way below $10/g. > > > > In any case, we probably will have to wait for the 6 > months > > to pass to see > > what is not purchased by the Canadian Government. > > > > One thing is sure, if ALL the masses were put on a > > restricted Canadian only > > collector market, a few hundred kilos would probably > sell > > for $0.10 a gram or > > even less. > > > > A smart thing might be to buy one specimen from Sonny > and > > McCartney NOW at > > $50/g and then buy more later at $10/g and if the > price > > goes down to under > > $1/g then buy so much more that you will have cost > averaged > > your first purchase > > at $50/g down to a reasonable level. > > > > Of course, if you are one of those people that get a > rush > > at owning the > > newest most famous meteorite that everyone is talking > > about around the water > > cooler, then how can you put a value on that??? > > > > :-) > > > > And also, realize that if you do buy a meteorite from > > Sonny and McCartney > > now, you are investing into field recovery. I > seriously > > doubt they will make a > > profit on this trip even if they sold what little > they > > found at $100/g, but > > if they can come close to breaking even, maybe next > time > > they will again be > > able to afford to get on the scene early and find > more. > > > > And at the very least, we should congratulate them on > > getting to the scene > > and making an effort. > > > > Good job guys, and congratulations! > > > > Steve Arnold #1 > > www.SteveArnoldMeteorites.com > > > > **************Make your life easier with all your > friends, > > email, and > > favorite sites in one place. Try it now. > > > (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From MeteorHntr at aol.com Sat Dec 6 18:30:43 2008 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 18:30:43 EST Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale Message-ID: In a message dated 12/6/2008 5:01:12 P.M. Central Standard Time, meteoriteguy at yahoo.com writes: I highly doubt it will be in Tucson, if it is then it is illegal, and I would not touch it. India doesnt scare me much, but Canada sent people to Tokyo two years back to look for fossils. They don't play games. I doubt the meteorite will oxidize much, at these temps, there is no more liquid water so they should be perfectly preserved for the most part. Michael Farmer *********** All, Richard Herd, from the Canadian National Collection has been known in years past for going around to all of the meteorite dealer's rooms in Tucson looking for illegally exported Canadian Meteorites. I don't think he has ever found any, and if he did, I am not sure what legal recourse could be taken. But I doubt he would be taking the time to look if there wasn't something they could do if he got lucky. If there is anything for sale in Tucson, it will probably be under the tightest of secrecy, and I doubt any dealer would offer a C.O.A. specimen ID card with them, thus the provenance would be lost, and you might as well be buying a Juanchenge. Now, you might find some local Canadians finders, who might find it worthwhile to smuggle specimens over the border who might show up in Tucson, eh? Some deals out of the trunk of a rental car might go down in the parking lots, since someone not in the business, without a reputation to risk, might want to dump some cheap for some fast cash. But don't expect any in Michael Blood's auction. Again, with no documentation, and no export permits, I doubt many collectors will want to pay even 20% of a legit retail value. If they are going to be selling for $10/g later, MAYBE someone would pay $2/g for illegal booty, but I doubt it. Why? Unless one has a morbid desire to "stick it" to the Canadians, there would be little satisfaction since one couldn't tell anyone about it. OK, on second thought, there might be a few people who would want to "stick it to the Canadians" so maybe $3/g might be possible in the back alley's of the wild west of Tucson... :-) However, we are maybe more likely to see the new Canadian rocks being sold as some totally other fall. What if all of a sudden we see (North North American) NNA 001 and NNA 002 specimens submitted for classification with vague find coordinates??? I think the Nomenclature Committee is on record as saying they are NOT in the business to police the various nation's meteorite laws. It will be interesting if the Canadians would have more clout in making a case than the Algerian or Libyan's have been able to in getting that policy changed. I think the legal export papers, showing legal title, will add a substantial value to the rocks if and when they are allowed to come out. Steve Arnold #1 www.SteveArnoldMeteorites.com **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) From MeteorHntr at aol.com Sat Dec 6 18:37:41 2008 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 18:37:41 EST Subject: [meteorite-list] Speaking of illegal Meteorites... Message-ID: Hey Guys, All this talk about meteorites not being able to come out of Canada has me thinking... Argentina is known to come down hard on illegal fossil dealers at Tucson recently. Is there going to be a shortage of Campos this year at Tucson since the new laws came into effect in Argentina? If so, are we going to see a huge spike in their values? I don't know how much Campo material has moved each year for the last decade or so, but it has to be a very large amount. A strong Supply has kept the prices relatively low in the near past, but if all that is all of a sudden cut off, wow... Steve Arnold #1 www.SteveArnoldMeteorites.com **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) From MeteorHntr at aol.com Sat Dec 6 18:47:42 2008 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 18:47:42 EST Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale Message-ID: In a message dated 12/6/2008 5:31:12 P.M. Central Standard Time, MeteorHntr at aol.com writes: I doubt the meteorite will oxidize much, at these temps, there is no more liquid water so they should be perfectly preserved for the most part. Michael Farmer ***************** Good Point Mike, Then again, if there is a lot of snow, and the ground gets real soggy when it melts off, rust could set in fairly quick. Especially if these would be H chondrites. Also, if there are strong rains in the spring that help melt off the snow, it could submerge some of these guys in water for some time. I know it only took one rainfall at Park Forest and rust was already appearing on some of the specimens almost immediately. Does anyone know how many feet of snow they get up there each winter? Do they get much rain in the spring? You know, one downfall is that if it takes waiting until May for the snow to all melt, then there would be the 6 month wait on those finds before they could get export permits, it could this time next year before any of these hit the market. The good thing, is that in a full year's time, we should have a much better idea on what a fair market value would be. So people don't have to worry too much about risking paying too much when they hit the market. Steve Arnold #1 www.SteveArnoldMeteorites.com **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com Sat Dec 6 19:10:47 2008 From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 16:10:47 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Speaking of illegal Meteorites... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <7944.77395.qm@web45605.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> I am thinking that there will be a increase in Campo prices due to the new laws. Another illegal meteorite, Berduc... It is widely available for sale on places like Ebay and a few dealers also offer it online. Not too long ago someone from the Metlist offered it in a rather discrete fashion - if anyone tried to save the video clip like I did, you know what Im talking about - it was also offered at the Bonhams auction. I honestly think that the legal status doesnt matter to most private collectors, it only really effects the dealers who would aquire it to sell it. Myself, as mainly a collector feel that nobody would come kicking in my door for owning a sample of this new canadian fall, Berduc or any other meteorite that is not aloowed to be exported... there are too many bigger issues to deal with. --- On Sat, 12/6/08, MeteorHntr at aol.com wrote: > From: MeteorHntr at aol.com > Subject: [meteorite-list] Speaking of illegal Meteorites... > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Saturday, December 6, 2008, 6:37 PM > Hey Guys, > > All this talk about meteorites not being able to come out > of Canada has me > thinking... > > Argentina is known to come down hard on illegal fossil > dealers at Tucson > recently. > > Is there going to be a shortage of Campos this year at > Tucson since the new > laws came into effect in Argentina? > > If so, are we going to see a huge spike in their values? > > I don't know how much Campo material has moved each > year for the last decade > or so, but it has to be a very large amount. A strong > Supply has kept the > prices relatively low in the near past, but if all that is > all of a sudden cut > off, wow... > > Steve Arnold #1 > www.SteveArnoldMeteorites.com > > **************Make your life easier with all your friends, > email, and > favorite sites in one place. Try it now. > (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From MeteorHntr at aol.com Sat Dec 6 19:24:46 2008 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 19:24:46 EST Subject: [meteorite-list] Speaking of illegal Meteorites... Message-ID: In a message dated 12/6/2008 6:11:07 P.M. Central Standard Time, star_wars_collector at yahoo.com writes: I honestly think that the legal status doesnt matter to most private collectors, it only really effects the dealers who would aquire it to sell it. I agree, many private collectors might not care, but I think some do. Of course when it comes to legality, and value, if the laws genuinely slow the flow to market of the quantity of a specimen, one can expect the retail prices will reflect that. Steve Arnold www.SteveArnoldMeteorites.com **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) From rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com Sat Dec 6 20:17:35 2008 From: rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com (Rob McCafferty) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 17:17:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <695032.9981.qm@web55202.mail.re4.yahoo.com> --- On Sat, 12/6/08, MeteorHntr at aol.com wrote: > I highly doubt it will be in Tucson, if it is then it is > illegal, and I > would not touch it. India doesnt scare me much, but Canada > sent people to Tokyo > two years back to look for fossils. They don't play > games. > Michael Farmer > And yet, here we find ourselves discussing the availability of this new material. Several times I've joked about our "pirate" status and my fears of being hunted down by Boba Fett. If we are really expecting this stuff to appear illegally, and people to buy it, maybe I was wrong to joke. I worry that the tone of this discussion does not do our interests any favours. I'm going to shut up now. I accuse no-one and anything else I say may be classifed as pontification. From MoritzKarl at t-online.de Sat Dec 6 20:23:25 2008 From: MoritzKarl at t-online.de (MoritzKarl at t-online.de) Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2008 02:23:25 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: ebay auctions ending in 18 hours Message-ID: <1L98Mn-06WDtQ0@fwd02.aul.t-online.de> Dear List, I have 21 ebay auctions ending on ebay. There are many goodies for sale. These include the following: Krasnojarsk Renazzo Barbotan Cape York Chateau-Renard Cumberland Falls Dar al Gani 400 - huge slice Mauerkirchen Monument Draw Nogoya Ohaba Orvinio Orgueil and many more... Take a look if you like here: http://stores.ebay.com/mosmeteorites or here http://www.m3t3orites.com/ebay.php Thank you for looking and Good Luck in case you are bidding. Please note that I will not be able to mail any of the items out until December 12th as I am leaving town tomorrow morning for five days. Thank you for understanding. Kind Regards Moritz Karl visit mo's meteorites at http://www.m3t3orites.com From info at meteorites.com.au Sun Dec 7 02:18:46 2008 From: info at meteorites.com.au (Jeff Kuyken) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 18:18:46 +1100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <907F937D1D8A4B4CA3651D01AA9C11A5@JeffPC> Steve and Mike both touched on an interesting point here that I was pondering myself the last couple of days. The material found now will be different to the material found weeks, months and years down the track. I didn't realise how much a fall can vary until "Amgala" (Oum Dreyga). I purchased a 15g individual from Mike Farmer from his very first batch of about 1kg. I believe these were about the first stones picked up. I paid about $10/g and it was worth every cent. I have several other Oum Dreyga specimens from numerous sources and NONE come even close to the first 15g which looks like soot would rub off on your hands. In fact no other recent fall I have appears as fresh as this stone. Two other recent falls that come immediately to mind with vast differences in weathering are Park Forest and Moss. So maybe $50/g is high but maybe it's also not so bad considering what the other stones 'might' be like down the track. You can also speculate all you like but there are so many factors which will dictate the price of a fall. And I don't think you can really compare one with another. Comparing this Canadian fall with Carancas is probably not a good measure at all. They are two totally different falls with two totally different stories. The most important thing to remember about the 'value' of a meteorite (or anything for that matter) is that it is only worth what someone is willing to pay. Cheers, Jeff ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 5:34 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale > Greg and All, > > I tend to agree that the price MIGHT drop to $10/g, especially if there > is a > high degree of rusting on the specimens found later next year. > > However, there is a chance the Canadians might offer to buy all or most > of > the ones already found. > > If the land owners can get a tax credit on $50/g to donate them, everyone > up > there might be happy to donate them, and at a 50% tax rate, that is the > same > as getting $25/g cash in hand to the overtaxed Canadians. > > It sounds like most of the land owners are very wealthy, so money may not > mean anything to them. They might donate them all and not even care > about a > tax break or cash values at all. > > If only a few kilos make it to the market place, then we could see the > value > be higher than $10/g. > > If we seen hundreds of rusty kilos coming onto the market, then we could > see > the prices end up way below $10/g. > > In any case, we probably will have to wait for the 6 months to pass to > see > what is not purchased by the Canadian Government. > > One thing is sure, if ALL the masses were put on a restricted Canadian > only > collector market, a few hundred kilos would probably sell for $0.10 a > gram or > even less. > > A smart thing might be to buy one specimen from Sonny and McCartney NOW > at > $50/g and then buy more later at $10/g and if the price goes down to > under > $1/g then buy so much more that you will have cost averaged your first > purchase > at $50/g down to a reasonable level. > > Of course, if you are one of those people that get a rush at owning the > newest most famous meteorite that everyone is talking about around the > water > cooler, then how can you put a value on that??? > > :-) > > And also, realize that if you do buy a meteorite from Sonny and McCartney > now, you are investing into field recovery. I seriously doubt they will > make a > profit on this trip even if they sold what little they found at $100/g, > but > if they can come close to breaking even, maybe next time they will again > be > able to afford to get on the scene early and find more. > > And at the very least, we should congratulate them on getting to the > scene > and making an effort. > > Good job guys, and congratulations! > > Steve Arnold #1 > www.SteveArnoldMeteorites.com > > **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and > favorite sites in one place. Try it now. > (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From meteoritekid at gmail.com Sun Dec 7 03:34:34 2008 From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 00:34:34 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale In-Reply-To: <907F937D1D8A4B4CA3651D01AA9C11A5@JeffPC> References: <907F937D1D8A4B4CA3651D01AA9C11A5@JeffPC> Message-ID: <93aaac890812070034k44cd6a42r24ca1d521628dd31@mail.gmail.com> Hello Jeff, All, The comparison to Carancas was provided as a contrast simply because it is such an unusual and different meteorite, and yet the asking price for these new Canadian stones is roughly what Carancas is going for right now. It's a large, ordinary, equilibrated chondrite fall, the likes of which we see almost once a year with some regularity (e.g. Thuathe, Amgala, Park Forest, Kilabo, Bensour, Chergach, Bassikounou, Berduc, etc.). And the asking price is more than Park Forest, which was a spectacular urban fall, and of which less material was found. The asking price for Park Forest currently runs between $20-30/g, from what I can find. A dealer or two have it listed at $40/g, but...not average. The price at the time was...$20-30/g. It started high, and, because of great demand for the urban fall, it stayed high. All of the other falls are ~$1.20/g (see the beautifully fresh 1.7kg Chergach that just passed on ebay, from ET, as well as a brace of stones I personally bought in the 120g range from an American dealer) to the asking price of $5-10/g for pieces of the other falls (see ebay - meteoritica, Hupe - both have Chergach currently listed on ebay, and there's quite a bit of Bensour around if you want to compare that), not that they sell quickly at those prices. After all, if you look at what's listed, well, those are the pieces that have yet to sell. The only comparable meteorite I can find is the Argentinean fall of Berduc, which, though I can't name any names (it was a while ago), was listed between $10 and $30/g. Restricted export, few suppliers, fresh fall, etc. The initial determining of the asking price of a fall is essentially arbitrary The hunters could set it at $5/g or $10/g if they only wanted to cover personal costs (and make a little on the side). Or they could try to set it at $1000/g to make a profit. The only thing keeping them from charging that much is the knowledge that, at some point, they wouldn't turn a profit because their asking price would be too high for anyone to buy. A dealer looking to turn as high a profit as possible would ask as high a price as he could, while still selling all of his material. Why wouldn't they? Do you really feel indignant enough at the dealers' asking five or ten times the price for comparable falls to not buy a stone from them? Personally, I do, and I won't. I think they're taking advantage of us folks who love them, but who have jobs and obligations - people who love them enough that we would go on such trips that we could, but who can't because of our responsibilities. But let's have some fun. Lets assume these fellows come back with a mere 500g. Just over a pound of space, between the two of them. And let's assume a high trip/cost estimate: Given that next-day flights to Edmonton from where I live were ~$130, and let's say they both stay there for a week at $80/night + food, a car....it works out to about a thousand dollars for the trip, each. $2,000 combined cost. If that's right, they would break even at $4/g. Each $1/g over $4/g would give them $500. If they're asking $50/g, they would make...$46x500. That's a profit of $23,000. And if my estimate was off and they each flew first-class, rented Hummers, and spent $50/day on food, they'll only make $20,000 off of 500g. ...Do you think they got more than a pound of material from the trip? I would assume so. A kilogram between the two of them would give them almost $50,000. Not bad for a quick flight up to Edmonton and a week's fun. I'll wait for the thaw. Anyone else who has spring break free (dates available), drop me a line and I'll see what kind of a trip we can arrange. What I can promise is that if I do find enough on that trip to warrant selling some, I'll have it at a reasonable price. Regards, Jason On Sat, Dec 6, 2008 at 11:18 PM, Jeff Kuyken wrote: > Steve and Mike both touched on an interesting point here that I was > pondering myself the last couple of days. The material found now will be > different to the material found weeks, months and years down the track. I > didn't realise how much a fall can vary until "Amgala" (Oum Dreyga). I > purchased a 15g individual from Mike Farmer from his very first batch of > about 1kg. I believe these were about the first stones picked up. I paid > about $10/g and it was worth every cent. I have several other Oum Dreyga > specimens from numerous sources and NONE come even close to the first 15g > which looks like soot would rub off on your hands. In fact no other recent > fall I have appears as fresh as this stone. Two other recent falls that come > immediately to mind with vast differences in weathering are Park Forest and > Moss. > > So maybe $50/g is high but maybe it's also not so bad considering what the > other stones 'might' be like down the track. You can also speculate all you > like but there are so many factors which will dictate the price of a fall. > And I don't think you can really compare one with another. Comparing this > Canadian fall with Carancas is probably not a good measure at all. They are > two totally different falls with two totally different stories. > > The most important thing to remember about the 'value' of a meteorite (or > anything for that matter) is that it is only worth what someone is willing > to pay. > > Cheers, > > Jeff > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: > To: ; > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 5:34 AM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale > > >> Greg and All, >> >> I tend to agree that the price MIGHT drop to $10/g, especially if there >> is a >> high degree of rusting on the specimens found later next year. >> >> However, there is a chance the Canadians might offer to buy all or most >> of >> the ones already found. >> >> If the land owners can get a tax credit on $50/g to donate them, everyone >> up >> there might be happy to donate them, and at a 50% tax rate, that is the >> same >> as getting $25/g cash in hand to the overtaxed Canadians. >> >> It sounds like most of the land owners are very wealthy, so money may not >> mean anything to them. They might donate them all and not even care >> about a >> tax break or cash values at all. >> >> If only a few kilos make it to the market place, then we could see the >> value >> be higher than $10/g. >> >> If we seen hundreds of rusty kilos coming onto the market, then we could >> see >> the prices end up way below $10/g. >> >> In any case, we probably will have to wait for the 6 months to pass to >> see >> what is not purchased by the Canadian Government. >> >> One thing is sure, if ALL the masses were put on a restricted Canadian >> only >> collector market, a few hundred kilos would probably sell for $0.10 a >> gram or >> even less. >> >> A smart thing might be to buy one specimen from Sonny and McCartney NOW >> at >> $50/g and then buy more later at $10/g and if the price goes down to >> under >> $1/g then buy so much more that you will have cost averaged your first >> purchase >> at $50/g down to a reasonable level. >> >> Of course, if you are one of those people that get a rush at owning the >> newest most famous meteorite that everyone is talking about around the >> water >> cooler, then how can you put a value on that??? >> >> :-) >> >> And also, realize that if you do buy a meteorite from Sonny and McCartney >> now, you are investing into field recovery. I seriously doubt they will >> make a >> profit on this trip even if they sold what little they found at $100/g, >> but >> if they can come close to breaking even, maybe next time they will again >> be >> able to afford to get on the scene early and find more. >> >> And at the very least, we should congratulate them on getting to the >> scene >> and making an effort. >> >> Good job guys, and congratulations! >> >> Steve Arnold #1 >> www.SteveArnoldMeteorites.com >> >> **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and >> favorite sites in one place. Try it now. >> >> (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From rockhoundm at abaconet.com.ar Sun Dec 7 04:49:59 2008 From: rockhoundm at abaconet.com.ar (Eduardo.) Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2008 06:49:59 -0300 Subject: [meteorite-list] Speaking of illegal Meteorites... In-Reply-To: <7944.77395.qm@web45605.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Argentina is getting harder in meteorites too. Look at this news from 2 days ago (sorry, spanish only): http://www.unoentrerios.com.ar/noticias/nota.php?id=1841 Two Uruguayans were caugth trying to smuggler meteorites from Argentina to Uruguay. They look like Campos. I heard there is an investigation right now the selling of illegal meteorites on-line (Campo del Cielo, Berduc and Santa Lucia), including web pages and auctions. Justice here is slow, very slow, it may take years, but their files don't dissapear. Don't be surprised if we have investigators next Tucson looking for the ones being sold there. By the way, here is an article (also in spanish), made by a lawyer, about the law. page 1 http://www.astroentrerios.com.ar/site/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=160&Itemid=70 page 2 http://www.astroentrerios.com.ar/site/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=160&Itemid=70&limit=1&limitstart=1 page 3 http://www.astroentrerios.com.ar/site/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=160&Itemid=70&limit=1&limitstart=2 Eduardo -----Original Message----- From: Greg Catterton To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 16:10:47 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Speaking of illegal Meteorites... > I am thinking that there will be a increase in Campo prices due to the > new laws. > > Another illegal meteorite, Berduc... It is widely available for sale on > places like Ebay and a few dealers also offer it online. > Not too long ago someone from the Metlist offered it in a rather > discrete fashion - if anyone tried to save the video clip like I did, > you know what Im talking about - it was also offered at the Bonhams > auction. > > I honestly think that the legal status doesnt matter to most private > collectors, it only really effects the dealers who would aquire it to > sell it. > Myself, as mainly a collector feel that nobody would come kicking in my > door for owning a sample of this new canadian fall, Berduc or any other > meteorite that is not aloowed to be exported... there are too many > bigger issues to deal with. > > > > --- On Sat, 12/6/08, MeteorHntr at aol.com wrote: > > > From: MeteorHntr at aol.com > > Subject: [meteorite-list] Speaking of illegal Meteorites... > > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > Date: Saturday, December 6, 2008, 6:37 PM > > Hey Guys, > > > > All this talk about meteorites not being able to come out > > of Canada has me > > thinking... > > > > Argentina is known to come down hard on illegal fossil > > dealers at Tucson > > recently. > > > > Is there going to be a shortage of Campos this year at > > Tucson since the new > > laws came into effect in Argentina? > > > > If so, are we going to see a huge spike in their values? > > > > I don't know how much Campo material has moved each > > year for the last decade > > or so, but it has to be a very large amount. A strong > > Supply has kept the > > prices relatively low in the near past, but if all that is > > all of a sudden cut > > off, wow... > > > > Steve Arnold #1 > > www.SteveArnoldMeteorites.com > > > > **************Make your life easier with all your friends, > > email, and > > favorite sites in one place. Try it now. > > > (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom > 00000010) > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From michael at spacerocksinc.com Sun Dec 7 06:38:26 2008 From: michael at spacerocksinc.com (Michael Johnson) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 03:38:26 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December 7, 2008 Message-ID: <29421592.2233561228649906961.JavaMail.root@mbs4.homesteadmail.com> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/December_7_2008.html From almitt at kconline.com Sun Dec 7 07:29:02 2008 From: almitt at kconline.com (al mitterling) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 07:29:02 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale In-Reply-To: <252297.33905.qm@web110213.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <252297.33905.qm@web110213.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <416B6A17EB864439A3A9DBD1D31CD068@StarmanPC> Greetings List, Interesting topics. Mike is right on about the Canadians. They don't play games. The former curator of the Canadian Collection was scanning ebay meteorite auctions for many years for Canadian Cultural Property including meteorites. The only way I was able to figure this out was a friend offer me some diamonds he had purchased to sell on ebay for him. They were Canadian. I received an inquiry as to where I had obtained my diamonds from Canada from the Canadian Mounted Police!! I let David know they were wondering (I had no doubt what so ever that David had purchased these legally). After David told the police they were purchased from one of the largest diamond companies and families in Canada, they backed way off but left a negative opinion in my mind that you can't purchase Canadian items without having to justify resaling them later. We later then found out about the meteorite snoop. It also fit in that he use to visit Tucson and Denver. I thought to build up their collection, but also to check for Canadian material. All my best to all. --AL Mitterling ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Farmer" To: ; Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 6:00 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale >I highly doubt it will be in Tucson, if it is then it is illegal, and I >would not touch it. India doesnt scare me much, but Canada sent people to >Tokyo two years back to look for fossils. They don't play games. > Michael Farmer From darryl at dof3.com Sun Dec 7 10:38:59 2008 From: darryl at dof3.com (Darryl Pitt) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 10:38:59 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale In-Reply-To: <93aaac890812070034k44cd6a42r24ca1d521628dd31@mail.gmail.com> References: <907F937D1D8A4B4CA3651D01AA9C11A5@JeffPC> <93aaac890812070034k44cd6a42r24ca1d521628dd31@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <44DF8989-38A8-4849-98CE-DCD16EAF5E45@dof3.com> Folks, If I've said it once I've said it a thousand times: meteorites as a collectible do not attract more serious collectors because there are too many aberrations of valuation--such that the aberrations have become the norm. Several serious collectors who have been intrigued with meteorites have shared with me that they've opted not to climb in because of their belief in an "immature" and "unsophisticated" marketplace. Their words. In my humble opinion, the quality of the fireball video associated with the Canadian event makes it worth far more than the low-end numbers being bandied about. Everything else being the same, no witnessed fall should ever sell for a couple of bucks a gram, and we should all strive to make certain this doesn't occur. All best / d ===================== On Dec 7, 2008, at 3:34 AM, Jason Utas wrote: > Hello Jeff, All, > > The comparison to Carancas was provided as a contrast simply because > it is such an unusual and different meteorite, and yet the asking > price for these new Canadian stones is roughly what Carancas is going > for right now. It's a large, ordinary, equilibrated chondrite fall, > the likes of which we see almost once a year with some regularity > (e.g. Thuathe, Amgala, Park Forest, Kilabo, Bensour, Chergach, > Bassikounou, Berduc, etc.). > > And the asking price is more than Park Forest, which was a spectacular > urban fall, and of which less material was found. The asking price > for Park Forest currently runs between $20-30/g, from what I can find. > A dealer or two have it listed at $40/g, but...not average. The > price at the time was...$20-30/g. It started high, and, because of > great demand for the urban fall, it stayed high. > > All of the other falls are ~$1.20/g (see the beautifully fresh 1.7kg > Chergach that just passed on ebay, from ET, as well as a brace of > stones I personally bought in the 120g range from an American dealer) > to the asking price of $5-10/g for pieces of the other falls (see ebay > - meteoritica, Hupe - both have Chergach currently listed on ebay, and > there's quite a bit of Bensour around if you want to compare that), > not that they sell quickly at those prices. After all, if you look at > what's listed, well, those are the pieces that have yet to sell. > > The only comparable meteorite I can find is the Argentinean fall of > Berduc, which, though I can't name any names (it was a while ago), was > listed between $10 and $30/g. Restricted export, few suppliers, fresh > fall, etc. > > The initial determining of the asking price of a fall is essentially > arbitrary The hunters could set it at $5/g or $10/g if they only > wanted to cover personal costs (and make a little on the side). Or > they could try to set it at $1000/g to make a profit. The only thing > keeping them from charging that much is the knowledge that, at some > point, they wouldn't turn a profit because their asking price would be > too high for anyone to buy. > A dealer looking to turn as high a profit as possible would ask as > high a price as he could, while still selling all of his material. > > Why wouldn't they? Do you really feel indignant enough at the > dealers' asking five or ten times the price for comparable falls to > not buy a stone from them? Personally, I do, and I won't. I think > they're taking advantage of us folks who love them, but who have jobs > and obligations - people who love them enough that we would go on such > trips that we could, but who can't because of our responsibilities. > > But let's have some fun. > > Lets assume these fellows come back with a mere 500g. Just over a > pound of space, between the two of them. > And let's assume a high trip/cost estimate: > Given that next-day flights to Edmonton from where I live were ~$130, > and let's say they both stay there for a week at $80/night + food, a > car....it works out to about a thousand dollars for the trip, each. > $2,000 combined cost. > > If that's right, they would break even at $4/g. Each $1/g over $4/g > would give them $500. > If they're asking $50/g, they would make...$46x500. > > That's a profit of $23,000. > > And if my estimate was off and they each flew first-class, rented > Hummers, and spent $50/day on food, they'll only make $20,000 off of > 500g. > > ...Do you think they got more than a pound of material from the trip? > I would assume so. > A kilogram between the two of them would give them almost $50,000. > Not bad for a quick flight up to Edmonton and a week's fun. > > I'll wait for the thaw. Anyone else who has spring break free (dates > available), drop me a line and I'll see what kind of a trip we can > arrange. What I can promise is that if I do find enough on that trip > to warrant selling some, I'll have it at a reasonable price. > > Regards, > Jason > > > > On Sat, Dec 6, 2008 at 11:18 PM, Jeff Kuyken > wrote: >> Steve and Mike both touched on an interesting point here that I was >> pondering myself the last couple of days. The material found now >> will be >> different to the material found weeks, months and years down the >> track. I >> didn't realise how much a fall can vary until "Amgala" (Oum >> Dreyga). I >> purchased a 15g individual from Mike Farmer from his very first >> batch of >> about 1kg. I believe these were about the first stones picked up. I >> paid >> about $10/g and it was worth every cent. I have several other Oum >> Dreyga >> specimens from numerous sources and NONE come even close to the >> first 15g >> which looks like soot would rub off on your hands. In fact no other >> recent >> fall I have appears as fresh as this stone. Two other recent falls >> that come >> immediately to mind with vast differences in weathering are Park >> Forest and >> Moss. >> >> So maybe $50/g is high but maybe it's also not so bad considering >> what the >> other stones 'might' be like down the track. You can also speculate >> all you >> like but there are so many factors which will dictate the price of >> a fall. >> And I don't think you can really compare one with another. >> Comparing this >> Canadian fall with Carancas is probably not a good measure at all. >> They are >> two totally different falls with two totally different stories. >> >> The most important thing to remember about the 'value' of a >> meteorite (or >> anything for that matter) is that it is only worth what someone is >> willing >> to pay. >> >> Cheers, >> >> Jeff >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: >> To: ; > > >> Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 5:34 AM >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale >> >> >>> Greg and All, >>> >>> I tend to agree that the price MIGHT drop to $10/g, especially if >>> there >>> is a >>> high degree of rusting on the specimens found later next year. >>> >>> However, there is a chance the Canadians might offer to buy all >>> or most >>> of >>> the ones already found. >>> >>> If the land owners can get a tax credit on $50/g to donate them, >>> everyone >>> up >>> there might be happy to donate them, and at a 50% tax rate, that >>> is the >>> same >>> as getting $25/g cash in hand to the overtaxed Canadians. >>> >>> It sounds like most of the land owners are very wealthy, so money >>> may not >>> mean anything to them. They might donate them all and not even >>> care >>> about a >>> tax break or cash values at all. >>> >>> If only a few kilos make it to the market place, then we could >>> see the >>> value >>> be higher than $10/g. >>> >>> If we seen hundreds of rusty kilos coming onto the market, then >>> we could >>> see >>> the prices end up way below $10/g. >>> >>> In any case, we probably will have to wait for the 6 months to >>> pass to >>> see >>> what is not purchased by the Canadian Government. >>> >>> One thing is sure, if ALL the masses were put on a restricted >>> Canadian >>> only >>> collector market, a few hundred kilos would probably sell for >>> $0.10 a >>> gram or >>> even less. >>> >>> A smart thing might be to buy one specimen from Sonny and >>> McCartney NOW >>> at >>> $50/g and then buy more later at $10/g and if the price goes down to >>> under >>> $1/g then buy so much more that you will have cost averaged your >>> first >>> purchase >>> at $50/g down to a reasonable level. >>> >>> Of course, if you are one of those people that get a rush at >>> owning the >>> newest most famous meteorite that everyone is talking about >>> around the >>> water >>> cooler, then how can you put a value on that??? >>> >>> :-) >>> >>> And also, realize that if you do buy a meteorite from Sonny and >>> McCartney >>> now, you are investing into field recovery. I seriously doubt >>> they will >>> make a >>> profit on this trip even if they sold what little they found at >>> $100/g, >>> but >>> if they can come close to breaking even, maybe next time they >>> will again >>> be >>> able to afford to get on the scene early and find more. >>> >>> And at the very least, we should congratulate them on getting to >>> the >>> scene >>> and making an effort. >>> >>> Good job guys, and congratulations! >>> >>> Steve Arnold #1 >>> www.SteveArnoldMeteorites.com >>> >>> **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, >>> and >>> favorite sites in one place. Try it now. >>> >>> (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010 >>> ) >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> >>> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoritekid at gmail.com Sun Dec 7 11:02:29 2008 From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 08:02:29 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale In-Reply-To: <44DF8989-38A8-4849-98CE-DCD16EAF5E45@dof3.com> References: <907F937D1D8A4B4CA3651D01AA9C11A5@JeffPC> <93aaac890812070034k44cd6a42r24ca1d521628dd31@mail.gmail.com> <44DF8989-38A8-4849-98CE-DCD16EAF5E45@dof3.com> Message-ID: <93aaac890812070802o77b7e335n3de3c8f6e456348e@mail.gmail.com> Darryl, Low-end numbers? Even Park Forest which was witnessed, caught on numerous videos, and fell in a densely populated urban environment - in what may well be a majority of cases, hitting man-made objects, was selling for $30/g or so at the time of the fall - a price which has stayed roughly the same, if it hasn't come down a few dollars per gram since then. How much Park Forest was recovered? According to this report, roughly 30kg. http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu/Aug04/ParkForest.html More of this fall has been recovered in the past week than from the entire fall of Park Forest. It hasn't hit anything interesting, as far as we know. It's an ordinary chondrite - even Park Forest had some pretty brecciation/melt. I've heard of nothing of the sort from this fall. It was caught on video, granted, and that does make it special in one way...why you think that should boost the value of it to twice the value of the undoubtedly more interesting Park Forest, also caught on video (and five or ten times the price of other comparable falls), I honestly...I'm at a lack for words. "Low-end numbers being bandied about?" On the one hand, you seem to criticize the high price being asked by these sellers, and on the other, you say the current market rates for other falls are "low-end numbers?" I don't understand. $5-10/g for these new falls is far overpriced, as best I can tell. At least with Chergach and Bassikounou, suppliers were contacting list-members directly and offering stones at $2/g initially - less for larger stones. You seem to be saying that's too cheap. Why? If the sellers are content, and I don't think the buyers are complaining, well, I can't see any reason for you to say such a thing. If both parties are happy, I honestly don't see how you can say such a thing. Look at the numbers from my last email. A mere $10/g would provide the hunters each with $5,000, assuming they only came back with 250g each. It's classic marketing technique to tell potential buyers that they got precious little out of the fall, as they said they did. If people think there's less, they'll want to buy more. There's a reason they're not telling anyone how much they got, after all. I wonder why...and I wonder if they ever will tell us how much they found/were allowed to keep.... After all, unless they're just using that as a marketing ploy, they really have no reason not to tell us. Jason On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 7:38 AM, Darryl Pitt wrote: > > > Folks, > > If I've said it once I've said it a thousand times: meteorites as a > collectible do not attract more serious collectors because there are too > many aberrations of valuation--such that the aberrations have become the > norm. Several serious collectors who have been intrigued with meteorites > have shared with me that they've opted not to climb in because of their > belief in an "immature" and "unsophisticated" marketplace. Their words. > > In my humble opinion, the quality of the fireball video associated with the > Canadian event makes it worth far more than the low-end numbers being > bandied about. > > Everything else being the same, no witnessed fall should ever sell for a > couple of bucks a gram, and we should all strive to make certain this > doesn't occur. > > All best / d > > > ===================== > > > On Dec 7, 2008, at 3:34 AM, Jason Utas wrote: > >> Hello Jeff, All, >> >> The comparison to Carancas was provided as a contrast simply because >> it is such an unusual and different meteorite, and yet the asking >> price for these new Canadian stones is roughly what Carancas is going >> for right now. It's a large, ordinary, equilibrated chondrite fall, >> the likes of which we see almost once a year with some regularity >> (e.g. Thuathe, Amgala, Park Forest, Kilabo, Bensour, Chergach, >> Bassikounou, Berduc, etc.). >> >> And the asking price is more than Park Forest, which was a spectacular >> urban fall, and of which less material was found. The asking price >> for Park Forest currently runs between $20-30/g, from what I can find. >> A dealer or two have it listed at $40/g, but...not average. The >> price at the time was...$20-30/g. It started high, and, because of >> great demand for the urban fall, it stayed high. >> >> All of the other falls are ~$1.20/g (see the beautifully fresh 1.7kg >> Chergach that just passed on ebay, from ET, as well as a brace of >> stones I personally bought in the 120g range from an American dealer) >> to the asking price of $5-10/g for pieces of the other falls (see ebay >> - meteoritica, Hupe - both have Chergach currently listed on ebay, and >> there's quite a bit of Bensour around if you want to compare that), >> not that they sell quickly at those prices. After all, if you look at >> what's listed, well, those are the pieces that have yet to sell. >> >> The only comparable meteorite I can find is the Argentinean fall of >> Berduc, which, though I can't name any names (it was a while ago), was >> listed between $10 and $30/g. Restricted export, few suppliers, fresh >> fall, etc. >> >> The initial determining of the asking price of a fall is essentially >> arbitrary The hunters could set it at $5/g or $10/g if they only >> wanted to cover personal costs (and make a little on the side). Or >> they could try to set it at $1000/g to make a profit. The only thing >> keeping them from charging that much is the knowledge that, at some >> point, they wouldn't turn a profit because their asking price would be >> too high for anyone to buy. >> A dealer looking to turn as high a profit as possible would ask as >> high a price as he could, while still selling all of his material. >> >> Why wouldn't they? Do you really feel indignant enough at the >> dealers' asking five or ten times the price for comparable falls to >> not buy a stone from them? Personally, I do, and I won't. I think >> they're taking advantage of us folks who love them, but who have jobs >> and obligations - people who love them enough that we would go on such >> trips that we could, but who can't because of our responsibilities. >> >> But let's have some fun. >> >> Lets assume these fellows come back with a mere 500g. Just over a >> pound of space, between the two of them. >> And let's assume a high trip/cost estimate: >> Given that next-day flights to Edmonton from where I live were ~$130, >> and let's say they both stay there for a week at $80/night + food, a >> car....it works out to about a thousand dollars for the trip, each. >> $2,000 combined cost. >> >> If that's right, they would break even at $4/g. Each $1/g over $4/g >> would give them $500. >> If they're asking $50/g, they would make...$46x500. >> >> That's a profit of $23,000. >> >> And if my estimate was off and they each flew first-class, rented >> Hummers, and spent $50/day on food, they'll only make $20,000 off of >> 500g. >> >> ...Do you think they got more than a pound of material from the trip? >> I would assume so. >> A kilogram between the two of them would give them almost $50,000. >> Not bad for a quick flight up to Edmonton and a week's fun. >> >> I'll wait for the thaw. Anyone else who has spring break free (dates >> available), drop me a line and I'll see what kind of a trip we can >> arrange. What I can promise is that if I do find enough on that trip >> to warrant selling some, I'll have it at a reasonable price. >> >> Regards, >> Jason >> >> >> >> On Sat, Dec 6, 2008 at 11:18 PM, Jeff Kuyken >> wrote: >>> >>> Steve and Mike both touched on an interesting point here that I was >>> pondering myself the last couple of days. The material found now will be >>> different to the material found weeks, months and years down the track. I >>> didn't realise how much a fall can vary until "Amgala" (Oum Dreyga). I >>> purchased a 15g individual from Mike Farmer from his very first batch of >>> about 1kg. I believe these were about the first stones picked up. I paid >>> about $10/g and it was worth every cent. I have several other Oum Dreyga >>> specimens from numerous sources and NONE come even close to the first 15g >>> which looks like soot would rub off on your hands. In fact no other >>> recent >>> fall I have appears as fresh as this stone. Two other recent falls that >>> come >>> immediately to mind with vast differences in weathering are Park Forest >>> and >>> Moss. >>> >>> So maybe $50/g is high but maybe it's also not so bad considering what >>> the >>> other stones 'might' be like down the track. You can also speculate all >>> you >>> like but there are so many factors which will dictate the price of a >>> fall. >>> And I don't think you can really compare one with another. Comparing this >>> Canadian fall with Carancas is probably not a good measure at all. They >>> are >>> two totally different falls with two totally different stories. >>> >>> The most important thing to remember about the 'value' of a meteorite (or >>> anything for that matter) is that it is only worth what someone is >>> willing >>> to pay. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Jeff >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: >>> To: ; >>> >>> Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 5:34 AM >>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale >>> >>> >>>> Greg and All, >>>> >>>> I tend to agree that the price MIGHT drop to $10/g, especially if there >>>> is a >>>> high degree of rusting on the specimens found later next year. >>>> >>>> However, there is a chance the Canadians might offer to buy all or most >>>> of >>>> the ones already found. >>>> >>>> If the land owners can get a tax credit on $50/g to donate them, >>>> everyone >>>> up >>>> there might be happy to donate them, and at a 50% tax rate, that is the >>>> same >>>> as getting $25/g cash in hand to the overtaxed Canadians. >>>> >>>> It sounds like most of the land owners are very wealthy, so money may >>>> not >>>> mean anything to them. They might donate them all and not even care >>>> about a >>>> tax break or cash values at all. >>>> >>>> If only a few kilos make it to the market place, then we could see the >>>> value >>>> be higher than $10/g. >>>> >>>> If we seen hundreds of rusty kilos coming onto the market, then we >>>> could >>>> see >>>> the prices end up way below $10/g. >>>> >>>> In any case, we probably will have to wait for the 6 months to pass to >>>> see >>>> what is not purchased by the Canadian Government. >>>> >>>> One thing is sure, if ALL the masses were put on a restricted Canadian >>>> only >>>> collector market, a few hundred kilos would probably sell for $0.10 a >>>> gram or >>>> even less. >>>> >>>> A smart thing might be to buy one specimen from Sonny and McCartney NOW >>>> at >>>> $50/g and then buy more later at $10/g and if the price goes down to >>>> under >>>> $1/g then buy so much more that you will have cost averaged your first >>>> purchase >>>> at $50/g down to a reasonable level. >>>> >>>> Of course, if you are one of those people that get a rush at owning the >>>> newest most famous meteorite that everyone is talking about around the >>>> water >>>> cooler, then how can you put a value on that??? >>>> >>>> :-) >>>> >>>> And also, realize that if you do buy a meteorite from Sonny and >>>> McCartney >>>> now, you are investing into field recovery. I seriously doubt they >>>> will >>>> make a >>>> profit on this trip even if they sold what little they found at $100/g, >>>> but >>>> if they can come close to breaking even, maybe next time they will >>>> again >>>> be >>>> able to afford to get on the scene early and find more. >>>> >>>> And at the very least, we should congratulate them on getting to the >>>> scene >>>> and making an effort. >>>> >>>> Good job guys, and congratulations! >>>> >>>> Steve Arnold #1 >>>> www.SteveArnoldMeteorites.com >>>> >>>> **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and >>>> favorite sites in one place. Try it now. >>>> >>>> >>>> (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) >>>> ______________________________________________ >>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>> >>>> >>> >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From cynapse at charter.net Sun Dec 7 11:05:56 2008 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2008 11:05:56 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale In-Reply-To: <44DF8989-38A8-4849-98CE-DCD16EAF5E45@dof3.com> References: <907F937D1D8A4B4CA3651D01AA9C11A5@JeffPC> <93aaac890812070034k44cd6a42r24ca1d521628dd31@mail.gmail.com> <44DF8989-38A8-4849-98CE-DCD16EAF5E45@dof3.com> Message-ID: <8usnj4l95ri1hom8ei9piacnmivot9plqj@4ax.com> On Sun, 7 Dec 2008 10:38:59 -0500, you wrote: >with meteorites have shared with me that they've opted not to climb in >because of their belief in an "immature" and "unsophisticated" >marketplace. Their words. >Everything else being the same, no witnessed fall should ever sell for >a couple of bucks a gram, and we should all strive to make certain >this doesn't occur. Myself, I'd rather see meteorite collecting as a fun (immature, unsuphisticated) hobby that anyone interested can afford to join (even if just for small pieces) than as a way for rich snobs to become richer. I say that those "serious collectors" who you talked to can go screw themselves. From michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com Sun Dec 7 11:17:55 2008 From: michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com (Michael Gilmer) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 08:17:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Offer for new Canadian fall In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <158047.86337.qm@web58407.mail.re3.yahoo.com> I offer five thousand QUATLOOS per gram for Buzzard Coulee. And yes, I have an export permit from Triskelion for the quatloos. ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale .......................................................... From cynapse at charter.net Sun Dec 7 11:25:56 2008 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2008 11:25:56 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Offer for new Canadian fall In-Reply-To: <158047.86337.qm@web58407.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <158047.86337.qm@web58407.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 7 Dec 2008 08:17:55 -0800 (PST), you wrote: > >I offer five thousand QUATLOOS per gram for Buzzard Coulee. Okay, without googling-- Spock's Brain? From MeteorHntr at aol.com Sun Dec 7 11:29:34 2008 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 11:29:34 EST Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale Message-ID: All, Maybe the two guys are just "publicly" asking $50 a gram, so that the Canadian Government will have to pony up the $50/g to buy what they want from them (and or to buy from the other land owners) but in reality they are NOT expecting to sell any to the rocks for ANY price at this time? Maybe after they get their export permits, then they will reconsider what the market will allow at that time? Or maybe with some negotiation, they might be able to be talked down to $5/g? Not always is the asking price the actual end sales price. It is their business, so they can run it any way they like. But we should understand that undoubtedly there is more here than meets the eye. Steve Arnold #1 www.SteveArnoldMeteorites.com **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) From MeteorHntr at aol.com Sun Dec 7 11:31:30 2008 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 11:31:30 EST Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale Message-ID: Is this in Canadian dollars or US dollars? Steve Arnold #1 www.SteveArnoldMeteorites.com **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) From MeteorHntr at aol.com Sun Dec 7 11:40:47 2008 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 11:40:47 EST Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale Message-ID: In a message dated 12/7/2008 10:30:14 A.M. Central Standard Time, MeteorHntr at aol.com writes: Maybe the two guys are just "publicly" asking $50 a gram, so that the Canadian Government will have to pony up the $50/g to buy what they want from them All, You know, on further thought, IF the Canadian Government would be happy to pay Sonny and McCartney ($50 x 1,000g = ) $50,000 for their finds, who are we to say that they shouldn't? I am sure the Canadian Government can afford to pay $50,000. Steve Arnold #1 www.SteveArnoldMeteorites.com **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Sun Dec 7 12:02:13 2008 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 18:02:13 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale In-Reply-To: <416B6A17EB864439A3A9DBD1D31CD068@StarmanPC> References: <252297.33905.qm@web110213.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <416B6A17EB864439A3A9DBD1D31CD068@StarmanPC> Message-ID: <007a01c9588d$8d60e3a0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Hi Al & all, well that is a minor problem. Letting aside, that any new fall is lacking any cultural properties, as long as it doesn't slay a famous composer, painter or author (poetry slam) and if we accept, that Canadians see themselves as legitimate heirs of extraterrestrial ancestors, when were meteorites put into the national cultural heritage list of Canada? I'm not sure, read somewhere in 1977. So only a few meteorites are afflicted. With all others it would be quite difficult for the Canadians to present evidence in case, that they were exported illegally. And Canada is still a State of Law (Argentina pro forma too), so not the accused has to prove his innocence, but the accuser has to evidence that he is guilty. But in general. Nobody is happy with that legal situation, that meteoritical Ren & Stimpy Show, I guess, least of all the Canadians themselves. And I really hope, that the new fall now will take the fears, the aggressiveness in the debate and will lead to a more meaning- and fruitful handling of meteorites in future there. It might be the problem, that "the officials" can't see the difference between meteorites and fossils, minerals, resources and artefacts, which they want to protect. A diamond, a dino is lying millions of years in the rocks, an artefact and something like the crater with the irons rests for thousands of years there. So there is no hurry, they can stay in the ground also for some generations more and it's o.k. to plant the banner there and to say "preserved for eternity, hands off". Not so - a fresh meteorite fall. There it is the top priority to rescue the stones from the harsh environment in the most prisitine condition. A single rain fall, a frost can already gravely damage the material, each week of searching without success let the isotope clock tick. Flight dynamics, fragmentation, strewnfield... interesting points, but in dubio pro meteoritem with a new fall. That was also the methodical mistake with Tagish Lake, where the Canadian Geological Survey - one can't say it else - destroyed valuable cultural heritage of Canada. But errors are made for learning from them. Now the scientists are faster. To recover new falls you need knowledge and you need manpower, the more people are searching the better! Restrictive property laws and protectionism do constrict the possibility of recovering new falls. Especially in countries, where "the officials" don't have enough experience with meteorites. See Africa, see Peru... I can't understand why the authorities still ignore the very positive experiences made with the cooperation of "official" and "private" initiatives in the recovering and documentation of almost all European falls of our decade? My home fall, Neuschwanstein. The DLR gave to everyone, who wanted to hunt, the exact data of the possible strewnfield, which they had precalculated. Only because of this, the 3 stones could have been recovered. They never would have been found and would be meanwhile destroyed under the harsh alpine conditions, if the officials wouldn't have used the help of private hunters and searchers. Think back to Villalbeto. Only a fraction of the masses would be housed nowadays in the Spanish museums and universities, if they would have tried to hunt them by theit own. No LaPice at all would exist, if not a private person did all the field work in calculating a possible strewnfield, interviewing eyewitnesses, evaluating observations, in cooperation with the "officials" and in hunting so long, until the first stone was found. Moss... would we have more than the stone which hit the tree..... And so on. Or please note the wonderful documentation and catalogue Buhl/Baermann made about the Chergach fall in the so necessary timely manner. We are all collectors and we know how disappointing and laborious it is even with the falls of our times to research in the archives to find only here a lousy photo, there a small newspaper article. An university in Mali would not have been able to do a similar professional work. Look into Buhl's Santa Victoria documentation. Now he tried to make the same with the Indian fall, but was gravely impeded by the officials there to do so, an effect of that hysterical debate of the recent years. Another aspect is, what we don't have to forget, that to forbid by law the owner of a stone to do with the stone what he likes to do, is legally seen a very severe intrusion in his personal laws, and certainly for a State of Law always the worst solution. Side effect of the Canadian situation - maybe they wouldn't have priced it now at 50$/g, if Canadian meteorites wouldn't be so expensive in general. Why are they so expensive? Is their a higher demand on the domestic Canadian market? Does the material own a higher intrinsic value because it felt in Canada instead in USA? No. Canadian meteorites are so expensive, because their availability is restricted. If the regulations would be as liberal as in USA, Canadian meteorites wouldn't cost more than American meteorites. So if the "officials" want to take advantage of their pre-emption to purchase a meteorite and if they have to "heal" the severe restriction of the personal laws of the owner in compensating him paying a fair market value, they have to pay more than without that law. That all was concerning now new falls. Much worse are restrictive laws regarding finds, whenever a searcher, finder, owner is not rewarded for his finds, either by the state or by being allowed to market it by his own. I gave the example Libya already. In 5 years the hunters were active, 1084 meteorites were found. In the following 7 years, when they stayed home, only 45 meteorites were recovered. Take Egypt. A desert country. It has less meteorites than small humid Germany and is one of the few desert countries, which completely is taken out from the great hot desert rush. Australia - the better Canada - A fine place to hunt. Please set the 7 (seven) finds of the recent 10 years made in Australia against the numerous desert finds the US-American amateur hunters made in USA in this decade. So my point is, to come to a more rational debate. Protectionism was an attempt, that science and the nations keep and obtain more meteorites. All hard data demonstrate, that the effect was obverse. The countries with restrictions dramatically suffered - much much less meteorites were found and landed in the institutions as in the times where no restrictions took place or in comparable countries without protectionism. So obviously protectionism is improper for the intended goals and brought opposite results. And should be history now. Amen Martin -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von al mitterling Gesendet: Sonntag, 7. Dezember 2008 13:29 An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Cc: Michael Farmer Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale Greetings List, Interesting topics. Mike is right on about the Canadians. They don't play games. The former curator of the Canadian Collection was scanning ebay meteorite auctions for many years for Canadian Cultural Property including meteorites. The only way I was able to figure this out was a friend offer me some diamonds he had purchased to sell on ebay for him. They were Canadian. I received an inquiry as to where I had obtained my diamonds from Canada from the Canadian Mounted Police!! I let David know they were wondering (I had no doubt what so ever that David had purchased these legally). After David told the police they were purchased from one of the largest diamond companies and families in Canada, they backed way off but left a negative opinion in my mind that you can't purchase Canadian items without having to justify resaling them later. We later then found out about the meteorite snoop. It also fit in that he use to visit Tucson and Denver. I thought to build up their collection, but also to check for Canadian material. All my best to all. --AL Mitterling ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Farmer" To: ; Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 6:00 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale >I highly doubt it will be in Tucson, if it is then it is illegal, and I >would not touch it. India doesnt scare me much, but Canada sent people to >Tokyo two years back to look for fossils. They don't play games. > Michael Farmer ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From darryl at dof3.com Sun Dec 7 12:26:48 2008 From: darryl at dof3.com (Darryl Pitt) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 12:26:48 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale In-Reply-To: <93aaac890812070802o77b7e335n3de3c8f6e456348e@mail.gmail.com> References: <907F937D1D8A4B4CA3651D01AA9C11A5@JeffPC> <93aaac890812070034k44cd6a42r24ca1d521628dd31@mail.gmail.com> <44DF8989-38A8-4849-98CE-DCD16EAF5E45@dof3.com> <93aaac890812070802o77b7e335n3de3c8f6e456348e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8AEC260D-E7F6-486F-B4D6-FCF939359569@dof3.com> Jason, Small detail....I never mentioned Park Forest. And speaking of being "at a loss for words," I don't quite know how to respond to your unbridled attack on "my" point of view regarding the same(?!) As it regards the Chergach and Bassikounou examples, I sincerely believe that irrespective of how inexpensive initial suppliers sell material, that it is incumbent on us to consider the implications of our pricing in the marketplace. I take a longer view of such anomalies. Just because I was offered Chergach at $0.50/g doesn't mean that it's responsible for me to widely offer it for $1.50/g even though it represents a 200% profit to me. Whether we can quantify the effect or not, beyond cheap meteorites have an effect on the rest of the marketplace. They create their own "gravity." That's all I'm trying to say. All best / Darryl On Dec 7, 2008, at 11:02 AM, Jason Utas wrote: > Darryl, > Low-end numbers? Even Park Forest which was witnessed, caught on > numerous videos, and fell in a densely populated urban environment - > in what may well be a majority of cases, hitting man-made objects, was > selling for $30/g or so at the time of the fall - a price which has > stayed roughly the same, if it hasn't come down a few dollars per gram > since then. > How much Park Forest was recovered? According to this report, > roughly 30kg. > > http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu/Aug04/ParkForest.html > > More of this fall has been recovered in the past week than from the > entire fall of Park Forest. > It hasn't hit anything interesting, as far as we know. > It's an ordinary chondrite - even Park Forest had some pretty > brecciation/melt. I've heard of nothing of the sort from this fall. > It was caught on video, granted, and that does make it special in one > way...why you think that should boost the value of it to twice the > value of the undoubtedly more interesting Park Forest, also caught on > video (and five or ten times the price of other comparable falls), I > honestly...I'm at a lack for words. > > "Low-end numbers being bandied about?" > > On the one hand, you seem to criticize the high price being asked by > these sellers, and on the other, you say the current market rates for > other falls are "low-end numbers?" > > I don't understand. $5-10/g for these new falls is far overpriced, as > best I can tell. At least with Chergach and Bassikounou, suppliers > were contacting list-members directly and offering stones at $2/g > initially - less for larger stones. > > You seem to be saying that's too cheap. Why? If the sellers are > content, and I don't think the buyers are complaining, well, I can't > see any reason for you to say such a thing. If both parties are > happy, I honestly don't see how you can say such a thing. > > Look at the numbers from my last email. A mere $10/g would provide > the hunters each with $5,000, assuming they only came back with 250g > each. > > It's classic marketing technique to tell potential buyers that they > got precious little out of the fall, as they said they did. > If people think there's less, they'll want to buy more. There's a > reason they're not telling anyone how much they got, after all. I > wonder why...and I wonder if they ever will tell us how much they > found/were allowed to keep.... After all, unless they're just using > that as a marketing ploy, they really have no reason not to tell us. > > Jason > > On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 7:38 AM, Darryl Pitt wrote: >> >> >> Folks, >> >> If I've said it once I've said it a thousand times: meteorites as a >> collectible do not attract more serious collectors because there >> are too >> many aberrations of valuation--such that the aberrations have >> become the >> norm. Several serious collectors who have been intrigued with >> meteorites >> have shared with me that they've opted not to climb in because of >> their >> belief in an "immature" and "unsophisticated" marketplace. Their >> words. >> >> In my humble opinion, the quality of the fireball video associated >> with the >> Canadian event makes it worth far more than the low-end numbers being >> bandied about. >> >> Everything else being the same, no witnessed fall should ever sell >> for a >> couple of bucks a gram, and we should all strive to make certain this >> doesn't occur. >> >> All best / d >> >> >> ===================== >> From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Sun Dec 7 12:27:03 2008 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 09:27:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Moss meteorite and Norway's "attempt" to claim theft. In-Reply-To: <007a01c9588d$8d60e3a0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: <664273.2012.qm@web110210.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> This whole discussion brings back memories of out Moss CO3 hunt and subsequent recovery of the Morten Bilet/Michael Farmer stone, ~900 grams out of 3.6 kilos total recovered. Many of us meteorite hunters from both USA and European countries, Poland, Sweden, Norway, Germany, UK, Canada etc were all hunting there and in the news. I got a call from the people at the Norway National university in Oslo who curate meteorites. They came on the bus to lecture me about destroying science by collecting meteorites for private purposes. They then said that Norwegian law allowed for any finder to own a metorite, but they did not like that at all. They then promptly ended the meeting saying that they had to catch a bus back to Oslo, despite the fact that the hotel was exactly in the center of the strewnfield. They had no desire to actually search! Days later, Morten and I found nearly a third of this rare meteorite in a parking lot, many of the pieces already destroyed by cars running over them and heavy equipment smashing them to dust. I have photos of the gray dust marks that days before had been large fragments of the Moss meteorite. Without us, Moss would consist of barely 1.5 kilogram in the three pieces (toilet hitter, tree cutter, and roof smasher). A later newspaper articles was titled "STOP, Meteorite THIEVES" funny, it is hard to steal what is legal to find and own. Then we can take Puerto Lapice, our team recovered over 30 stones, nearly 1/3 of the total known weight of that rare Eucrite, and Spain went crazy, calling us thieves although Spain has no law preventing meteorites from leaving Spain. We went 4 MONTHS later, after 99% of the strewnfield had been completely plowed over and destroyed. Had we not done that, those stones would have been lost as well. Science and private hunters work well together when we try, and trying to block on the other only leads to fewer recoveries and loss of science and material for all. I think this Canadian fall will go well, I havent read much that shows otherwise. Michael Farmer From darryl at dof3.com Sun Dec 7 12:27:44 2008 From: darryl at dof3.com (Darryl Pitt) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 12:27:44 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale In-Reply-To: <8usnj4l95ri1hom8ei9piacnmivot9plqj@4ax.com> References: <907F937D1D8A4B4CA3651D01AA9C11A5@JeffPC> <93aaac890812070034k44cd6a42r24ca1d521628dd31@mail.gmail.com> <44DF8989-38A8-4849-98CE-DCD16EAF5E45@dof3.com> <8usnj4l95ri1hom8ei9piacnmivot9plqj@4ax.com> Message-ID: <0417DF28-A44E-41D8-9387-1F7A152D4FB4@dof3.com> Darren, I hear you, but it's not about the rich snobs, it's about economic forces brought to the table which will result in a more stable marketplace and increasing valuations---and that's good for all of us. Wouldn't it be great if there were market factors which limited the kinds of aberrations which have stung us all at one time or another? I'm all for fun! ;-) On Dec 7, 2008, at 11:05 AM, Darren Garrison wrote: > On Sun, 7 Dec 2008 10:38:59 -0500, you wrote: > >> with meteorites have shared with me that they've opted not to climb >> in >> because of their belief in an "immature" and "unsophisticated" >> marketplace. Their words. > > > >> Everything else being the same, no witnessed fall should ever sell >> for >> a couple of bucks a gram, and we should all strive to make certain >> this doesn't occur. > > Myself, I'd rather see meteorite collecting as a fun (immature, > unsuphisticated) > hobby that anyone interested can afford to join (even if just for > small pieces) > than as a way for rich snobs to become richer. I say that those > "serious > collectors" who you talked to can go screw themselves. > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Sun Dec 7 12:40:49 2008 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 18:40:49 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Moss meteorite and Norway's "attempt" to claimtheft. In-Reply-To: <664273.2012.qm@web110210.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <007a01c9588d$8d60e3a0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> <664273.2012.qm@web110210.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <007e01c95892$f21ebce0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Hmja, possibly a deficiency of their university schooling. Half a lesson in the series of lectures or the workshop in meteoritics about the history of this subject, And then they would have known, that it always was so the last 300 years, that there were the farmers and the Farmers picking up the stones to sell or to donate them to the scientists and the collectors. In my opinion also in natural science a short glimpse onto the cultural context is important. Martin -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Michael Farmer Gesendet: Sonntag, 7. Dezember 2008 18:27 An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com; Martin Altmann Betreff: [meteorite-list] Moss meteorite and Norway's "attempt" to claimtheft. This whole discussion brings back memories of out Moss CO3 hunt and subsequent recovery of the Morten Bilet/Michael Farmer stone, ~900 grams out of 3.6 kilos total recovered. Many of us meteorite hunters from both USA and European countries, Poland, Sweden, Norway, Germany, UK, Canada etc were all hunting there and in the news. I got a call from the people at the Norway National university in Oslo who curate meteorites. They came on the bus to lecture me about destroying science by collecting meteorites for private purposes. They then said that Norwegian law allowed for any finder to own a metorite, but they did not like that at all. They then promptly ended the meeting saying that they had to catch a bus back to Oslo, despite the fact that the hotel was exactly in the center of the strewnfield. They had no desire to actually search! Days later, Morten and I found nearly a third of this rare meteorite in a parking lot, many of the pieces already destroyed by cars running over them and heavy equipment smashing them to dust. I have photos of the gray dust marks that days before had been large fragments of the Moss meteorite. Without us, Moss would consist of barely 1.5 kilogram in the three pieces (toilet hitter, tree cutter, and roof smasher). A later newspaper articles was titled "STOP, Meteorite THIEVES" funny, it is hard to steal what is legal to find and own. Then we can take Puerto Lapice, our team recovered over 30 stones, nearly 1/3 of the total known weight of that rare Eucrite, and Spain went crazy, calling us thieves although Spain has no law preventing meteorites from leaving Spain. We went 4 MONTHS later, after 99% of the strewnfield had been completely plowed over and destroyed. Had we not done that, those stones would have been lost as well. Science and private hunters work well together when we try, and trying to block on the other only leads to fewer recoveries and loss of science and material for all. I think this Canadian fall will go well, I havent read much that shows otherwise. Michael Farmer ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From dave at fallingrocks.com Sun Dec 7 12:43:46 2008 From: dave at fallingrocks.com (Dave Gheesling) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 12:43:46 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale In-Reply-To: <93aaac890812070802o77b7e335n3de3c8f6e456348e@mail.gmail.com> References: <907F937D1D8A4B4CA3651D01AA9C11A5@JeffPC><93aaac890812070034k44cd6a42r24ca1d521628dd31@mail.gmail.com><44DF8989-38A8-4849-98CE-DCD16EAF5E45@dof3.com> <93aaac890812070802o77b7e335n3de3c8f6e456348e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3AC8FDACCA61497DB7293D64F1F53747@meteorroom> Jason, Darryl & All, Darryl is right. This "industry" is famous for pricing/value issues. Many dealers (not all, of course...just many) have brought new material to the market, sold it for a premium to make their profit, then dumped the remaining material once the market has been satisfied as if this were the retail clothing business (will provide an explanation here if it's needed) on countless occasions. It's hard to imaging that this might inspire confidence in a serious collector. The "low-end numbers" part of Darryl's email is secondary to this, and it's not clear which numbers he's referring to within the framework of this discussion, anyway. Government intervention -- such as is present in Canada -- has a way of adding to the chaos around specimen value (and generating some tragedies along the way, a la Tagish Lake), too. It's great that Sonny and McCartney were hunting this fall early, and hopefully as this continues to happen the message about the importance of recovering material and the need for a strong incentive to make that possible gets out. International laws regarding meteorite recovery and export have virtually all been established as a bolt-on package to other legislation around artifacts, etc, and for the most part these decisions have been made by officials who have probably never even seen a meteorite (let alone developed an understanding of the field and related relevant issues). Back to values and suppliers contacting collectors directly in the North African falls: this is illustrative of the near absence of a conventional distribution channel, and there is risk that comes with acquiring material in that manner. The internet has made it possible for just about anyone to be a dealer and these challenges will likely continue to fester until an international organization truly establishes some standards in this arena around verifiable provenance, prioritizing meteorite recovery over politics, proper curation, collection transfer protocol and the like. Dave www.fallingrocks.com -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Jason Utas Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 11:02 AM To: Meteorite-list Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale Darryl, Low-end numbers? Even Park Forest which was witnessed, caught on numerous videos, and fell in a densely populated urban environment - in what may well be a majority of cases, hitting man-made objects, was selling for $30/g or so at the time of the fall - a price which has stayed roughly the same, if it hasn't come down a few dollars per gram since then. How much Park Forest was recovered? According to this report, roughly 30kg. http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu/Aug04/ParkForest.html More of this fall has been recovered in the past week than from the entire fall of Park Forest. It hasn't hit anything interesting, as far as we know. It's an ordinary chondrite - even Park Forest had some pretty brecciation/melt. I've heard of nothing of the sort from this fall. It was caught on video, granted, and that does make it special in one way...why you think that should boost the value of it to twice the value of the undoubtedly more interesting Park Forest, also caught on video (and five or ten times the price of other comparable falls), I honestly...I'm at a lack for words. "Low-end numbers being bandied about?" On the one hand, you seem to criticize the high price being asked by these sellers, and on the other, you say the current market rates for other falls are "low-end numbers?" I don't understand. $5-10/g for these new falls is far overpriced, as best I can tell. At least with Chergach and Bassikounou, suppliers were contacting list-members directly and offering stones at $2/g initially - less for larger stones. You seem to be saying that's too cheap. Why? If the sellers are content, and I don't think the buyers are complaining, well, I can't see any reason for you to say such a thing. If both parties are happy, I honestly don't see how you can say such a thing. Look at the numbers from my last email. A mere $10/g would provide the hunters each with $5,000, assuming they only came back with 250g each. It's classic marketing technique to tell potential buyers that they got precious little out of the fall, as they said they did. If people think there's less, they'll want to buy more. There's a reason they're not telling anyone how much they got, after all. I wonder why...and I wonder if they ever will tell us how much they found/were allowed to keep.... After all, unless they're just using that as a marketing ploy, they really have no reason not to tell us. Jason On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 7:38 AM, Darryl Pitt wrote: > > > Folks, > > If I've said it once I've said it a thousand times: meteorites as a > collectible do not attract more serious collectors because there are > too many aberrations of valuation--such that the aberrations have > become the norm. Several serious collectors who have been intrigued > with meteorites have shared with me that they've opted not to climb in > because of their belief in an "immature" and "unsophisticated" marketplace. Their words. > > In my humble opinion, the quality of the fireball video associated > with the Canadian event makes it worth far more than the low-end > numbers being bandied about. > > Everything else being the same, no witnessed fall should ever sell for > a couple of bucks a gram, and we should all strive to make certain > this doesn't occur. > > All best / d > > > ===================== > > > On Dec 7, 2008, at 3:34 AM, Jason Utas wrote: > >> Hello Jeff, All, >> >> The comparison to Carancas was provided as a contrast simply because >> it is such an unusual and different meteorite, and yet the asking >> price for these new Canadian stones is roughly what Carancas is going >> for right now. It's a large, ordinary, equilibrated chondrite fall, >> the likes of which we see almost once a year with some regularity >> (e.g. Thuathe, Amgala, Park Forest, Kilabo, Bensour, Chergach, >> Bassikounou, Berduc, etc.). >> >> And the asking price is more than Park Forest, which was a >> spectacular urban fall, and of which less material was found. The >> asking price for Park Forest currently runs between $20-30/g, from what I can find. >> A dealer or two have it listed at $40/g, but...not average. The >> price at the time was...$20-30/g. It started high, and, because of >> great demand for the urban fall, it stayed high. >> >> All of the other falls are ~$1.20/g (see the beautifully fresh 1.7kg >> Chergach that just passed on ebay, from ET, as well as a brace of >> stones I personally bought in the 120g range from an American dealer) >> to the asking price of $5-10/g for pieces of the other falls (see >> ebay >> - meteoritica, Hupe - both have Chergach currently listed on ebay, >> and there's quite a bit of Bensour around if you want to compare >> that), not that they sell quickly at those prices. After all, if you >> look at what's listed, well, those are the pieces that have yet to sell. >> >> The only comparable meteorite I can find is the Argentinean fall of >> Berduc, which, though I can't name any names (it was a while ago), >> was listed between $10 and $30/g. Restricted export, few suppliers, >> fresh fall, etc. >> >> The initial determining of the asking price of a fall is essentially >> arbitrary The hunters could set it at $5/g or $10/g if they only >> wanted to cover personal costs (and make a little on the side). Or >> they could try to set it at $1000/g to make a profit. The only thing >> keeping them from charging that much is the knowledge that, at some >> point, they wouldn't turn a profit because their asking price would >> be too high for anyone to buy. >> A dealer looking to turn as high a profit as possible would ask as >> high a price as he could, while still selling all of his material. >> >> Why wouldn't they? Do you really feel indignant enough at the >> dealers' asking five or ten times the price for comparable falls to >> not buy a stone from them? Personally, I do, and I won't. I think >> they're taking advantage of us folks who love them, but who have jobs >> and obligations - people who love them enough that we would go on >> such trips that we could, but who can't because of our responsibilities. >> >> But let's have some fun. >> >> Lets assume these fellows come back with a mere 500g. Just over a >> pound of space, between the two of them. >> And let's assume a high trip/cost estimate: >> Given that next-day flights to Edmonton from where I live were ~$130, >> and let's say they both stay there for a week at $80/night + food, a >> car....it works out to about a thousand dollars for the trip, each. >> $2,000 combined cost. >> >> If that's right, they would break even at $4/g. Each $1/g over $4/g >> would give them $500. >> If they're asking $50/g, they would make...$46x500. >> >> That's a profit of $23,000. >> >> And if my estimate was off and they each flew first-class, rented >> Hummers, and spent $50/day on food, they'll only make $20,000 off of >> 500g. >> >> ...Do you think they got more than a pound of material from the trip? >> I would assume so. >> A kilogram between the two of them would give them almost $50,000. >> Not bad for a quick flight up to Edmonton and a week's fun. >> >> I'll wait for the thaw. Anyone else who has spring break free (dates >> available), drop me a line and I'll see what kind of a trip we can >> arrange. What I can promise is that if I do find enough on that trip >> to warrant selling some, I'll have it at a reasonable price. >> >> Regards, >> Jason >> >> >> >> On Sat, Dec 6, 2008 at 11:18 PM, Jeff Kuyken >> wrote: >>> >>> Steve and Mike both touched on an interesting point here that I was >>> pondering myself the last couple of days. The material found now >>> will be different to the material found weeks, months and years down >>> the track. I didn't realise how much a fall can vary until "Amgala" >>> (Oum Dreyga). I purchased a 15g individual from Mike Farmer from his >>> very first batch of about 1kg. I believe these were about the first >>> stones picked up. I paid about $10/g and it was worth every cent. I >>> have several other Oum Dreyga specimens from numerous sources and >>> NONE come even close to the first 15g which looks like soot would >>> rub off on your hands. In fact no other recent fall I have appears >>> as fresh as this stone. Two other recent falls that come immediately >>> to mind with vast differences in weathering are Park Forest and >>> Moss. >>> >>> So maybe $50/g is high but maybe it's also not so bad considering >>> what the other stones 'might' be like down the track. You can also >>> speculate all you like but there are so many factors which will >>> dictate the price of a fall. >>> And I don't think you can really compare one with another. Comparing >>> this Canadian fall with Carancas is probably not a good measure at >>> all. They are two totally different falls with two totally different >>> stories. >>> >>> The most important thing to remember about the 'value' of a >>> meteorite (or anything for that matter) is that it is only worth >>> what someone is willing to pay. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Jeff >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: >>> To: ; >>> >>> Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 5:34 AM >>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale >>> >>> >>>> Greg and All, >>>> >>>> I tend to agree that the price MIGHT drop to $10/g, especially if >>>> there is a high degree of rusting on the specimens found later >>>> next year. >>>> >>>> However, there is a chance the Canadians might offer to buy all or >>>> most of the ones already found. >>>> >>>> If the land owners can get a tax credit on $50/g to donate them, >>>> everyone up there might be happy to donate them, and at a 50% tax >>>> rate, that is the same as getting $25/g cash in hand to the >>>> overtaxed Canadians. >>>> >>>> It sounds like most of the land owners are very wealthy, so money >>>> may not mean anything to them. They might donate them all and not >>>> even care about a tax break or cash values at all. >>>> >>>> If only a few kilos make it to the market place, then we could see >>>> the value be higher than $10/g. >>>> >>>> If we seen hundreds of rusty kilos coming onto the market, then we >>>> could see the prices end up way below $10/g. >>>> >>>> In any case, we probably will have to wait for the 6 months to >>>> pass to see what is not purchased by the Canadian Government. >>>> >>>> One thing is sure, if ALL the masses were put on a restricted >>>> Canadian only collector market, a few hundred kilos would probably >>>> sell for $0.10 a gram or even less. >>>> >>>> A smart thing might be to buy one specimen from Sonny and McCartney >>>> NOW at $50/g and then buy more later at $10/g and if the price goes >>>> down to under $1/g then buy so much more that you will have cost >>>> averaged your first purchase at $50/g down to a reasonable level. >>>> >>>> Of course, if you are one of those people that get a rush at >>>> owning the newest most famous meteorite that everyone is talking >>>> about around the water cooler, then how can you put a value on >>>> that??? >>>> >>>> :-) >>>> >>>> And also, realize that if you do buy a meteorite from Sonny and >>>> McCartney now, you are investing into field recovery. I seriously >>>> doubt they will make a profit on this trip even if they sold what >>>> little they found at $100/g, but if they can come close to breaking >>>> even, maybe next time they will again be able to afford to get on >>>> the scene early and find more. >>>> >>>> And at the very least, we should congratulate them on getting to >>>> the scene and making an effort. >>>> >>>> Good job guys, and congratulations! >>>> >>>> Steve Arnold #1 >>>> www.SteveArnoldMeteorites.com >>>> >>>> **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, >>>> and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. >>>> >>>> >>>> (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntao >>>> lcom00000010) ______________________________________________ >>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>> >>>> >>> >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From dave at fallingrocks.com Sun Dec 7 12:45:16 2008 From: dave at fallingrocks.com (Dave Gheesling) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 12:45:16 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale In-Reply-To: <8AEC260D-E7F6-486F-B4D6-FCF939359569@dof3.com> References: <907F937D1D8A4B4CA3651D01AA9C11A5@JeffPC><93aaac890812070034k44cd6a42r24ca1d521628dd31@mail.gmail.com><44DF8989-38A8-4849-98CE-DCD16EAF5E45@dof3.com><93aaac890812070802o77b7e335n3de3c8f6e456348e@mail.gmail.com> <8AEC260D-E7F6-486F-B4D6-FCF939359569@dof3.com> Message-ID: <8B625AFAB6604F42B379E98505CF59E9@meteorroom> B-I-N-G-O. Dave www.fallingrocks.com -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Pitt Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 12:27 PM To: Jason Utas Cc: Meteorite-list Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale Jason, Small detail....I never mentioned Park Forest. And speaking of being "at a loss for words," I don't quite know how to respond to your unbridled attack on "my" point of view regarding the same(?!) As it regards the Chergach and Bassikounou examples, I sincerely believe that irrespective of how inexpensive initial suppliers sell material, that it is incumbent on us to consider the implications of our pricing in the marketplace. I take a longer view of such anomalies. Just because I was offered Chergach at $0.50/g doesn't mean that it's responsible for me to widely offer it for $1.50/g even though it represents a 200% profit to me. Whether we can quantify the effect or not, beyond cheap meteorites have an effect on the rest of the marketplace. They create their own "gravity." That's all I'm trying to say. All best / Darryl On Dec 7, 2008, at 11:02 AM, Jason Utas wrote: > Darryl, > Low-end numbers? Even Park Forest which was witnessed, caught on > numerous videos, and fell in a densely populated urban environment - > in what may well be a majority of cases, hitting man-made objects, was > selling for $30/g or so at the time of the fall - a price which has > stayed roughly the same, if it hasn't come down a few dollars per gram > since then. > How much Park Forest was recovered? According to this report, roughly > 30kg. > > http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu/Aug04/ParkForest.html > > More of this fall has been recovered in the past week than from the > entire fall of Park Forest. > It hasn't hit anything interesting, as far as we know. > It's an ordinary chondrite - even Park Forest had some pretty > brecciation/melt. I've heard of nothing of the sort from this fall. > It was caught on video, granted, and that does make it special in one > way...why you think that should boost the value of it to twice the > value of the undoubtedly more interesting Park Forest, also caught on > video (and five or ten times the price of other comparable falls), I > honestly...I'm at a lack for words. > > "Low-end numbers being bandied about?" > > On the one hand, you seem to criticize the high price being asked by > these sellers, and on the other, you say the current market rates for > other falls are "low-end numbers?" > > I don't understand. $5-10/g for these new falls is far overpriced, as > best I can tell. At least with Chergach and Bassikounou, suppliers > were contacting list-members directly and offering stones at $2/g > initially - less for larger stones. > > You seem to be saying that's too cheap. Why? If the sellers are > content, and I don't think the buyers are complaining, well, I can't > see any reason for you to say such a thing. If both parties are > happy, I honestly don't see how you can say such a thing. > > Look at the numbers from my last email. A mere $10/g would provide > the hunters each with $5,000, assuming they only came back with 250g > each. > > It's classic marketing technique to tell potential buyers that they > got precious little out of the fall, as they said they did. > If people think there's less, they'll want to buy more. There's a > reason they're not telling anyone how much they got, after all. I > wonder why...and I wonder if they ever will tell us how much they > found/were allowed to keep.... After all, unless they're just using > that as a marketing ploy, they really have no reason not to tell us. > > Jason > > On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 7:38 AM, Darryl Pitt wrote: >> >> >> Folks, >> >> If I've said it once I've said it a thousand times: meteorites as a >> collectible do not attract more serious collectors because there are >> too many aberrations of valuation--such that the aberrations have >> become the norm. Several serious collectors who have been intrigued >> with meteorites have shared with me that they've opted not to climb >> in because of their belief in an "immature" and "unsophisticated" >> marketplace. Their words. >> >> In my humble opinion, the quality of the fireball video associated >> with the Canadian event makes it worth far more than the low-end >> numbers being bandied about. >> >> Everything else being the same, no witnessed fall should ever sell >> for a couple of bucks a gram, and we should all strive to make >> certain this doesn't occur. >> >> All best / d >> >> >> ===================== >> ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From dave at fallingrocks.com Sun Dec 7 12:57:16 2008 From: dave at fallingrocks.com (Dave Gheesling) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 12:57:16 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale In-Reply-To: <0417DF28-A44E-41D8-9387-1F7A152D4FB4@dof3.com> References: <907F937D1D8A4B4CA3651D01AA9C11A5@JeffPC><93aaac890812070034k44cd6a42r24ca1d521628dd31@mail.gmail.com><44DF8989-38A8-4849-98CE-DCD16EAF5E45@dof3.com><8usnj4l95ri1hom8ei9piacnmivot9plqj@4ax.com> <0417DF28-A44E-41D8-9387-1F7A152D4FB4@dof3.com> Message-ID: <782BB2DE1C224AB6B2EB25C869628539@meteorroom> Darren & All, Back to ridiculous class warfare...nice. This is a serious business, and classless quips won't serve the debate well here. We have recovered more and more material over time because the incentive (i.e. money, which, by definition, rich people happen to have) to do so has increased in advance of the recoveries themselves. There is plenty of material for those who want to have fun in an "immature, unsuphisticated" (sic) arena, and that's great. The desire (i.e. how much money one is willing to pay) for a lot of this material (not all, of course), however, does not generate the kind of incentive to motivate top-flight meteorite hunters to get on planes, risk their own capital and time and energy (and necks, in some cases) to find epic meteorites. Dave www.fallingrocks.com -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Pitt Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 12:28 PM To: cynapse at charter.net Cc: Meteorite-list Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale Darren, I hear you, but it's not about the rich snobs, it's about economic forces brought to the table which will result in a more stable marketplace and increasing valuations---and that's good for all of us. Wouldn't it be great if there were market factors which limited the kinds of aberrations which have stung us all at one time or another? I'm all for fun! ;-) On Dec 7, 2008, at 11:05 AM, Darren Garrison wrote: > On Sun, 7 Dec 2008 10:38:59 -0500, you wrote: > >> with meteorites have shared with me that they've opted not to climb >> in because of their belief in an "immature" and "unsophisticated" >> marketplace. Their words. > > > >> Everything else being the same, no witnessed fall should ever sell >> for a couple of bucks a gram, and we should all strive to make >> certain this doesn't occur. > > Myself, I'd rather see meteorite collecting as a fun (immature, > unsuphisticated) > hobby that anyone interested can afford to join (even if just for > small pieces) than as a way for rich snobs to become richer. I say > that those "serious collectors" who you talked to can go screw > themselves. > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Sun Dec 7 13:01:09 2008 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 19:01:09 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale In-Reply-To: <0417DF28-A44E-41D8-9387-1F7A152D4FB4@dof3.com> References: <907F937D1D8A4B4CA3651D01AA9C11A5@JeffPC><93aaac890812070034k44cd6a42r24ca1d521628dd31@mail.gmail.com><44DF8989-38A8-4849-98CE-DCD16EAF5E45@dof3.com><8usnj4l95ri1hom8ei9piacnmivot9plqj@4ax.com> <0417DF28-A44E-41D8-9387-1F7A152D4FB4@dof3.com> Message-ID: <007f01c95895$c925d140$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Meteorites and "Market"? I have always my difficulties. A collectors market? Hmm 71 million$ for a Warhol here, 40 milions for a van Gogh there, 2.5 million for a Macke here, 120 millions for a Klimt there... And the stuff we collect is rarer than these... (In principle it is bizarre to discuss, whether a Bassikonou or a Mali should cost 50 cents, 1$, 3$ or 1000$.... or a Moon 1000$ or 10,000,000 isn't it?) Imagine, if only a single of these collectors buying such collectibles will discover meteorites as a field of collecting. Eeeek! Once such a sum spend like for such a painting - and booooom - there is no meteorite market anymore, because there are no meteorites left :-) Any estimates, which annual volumes in total are moved in the meteorite market? Ebay-fanatics - has one of you ever noted how many $$$ are actually sold (sold not offered) in meteorites there per week? Would be interesting. Martin -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Darryl Pitt Gesendet: Sonntag, 7. Dezember 2008 18:28 An: cynapse at charter.net Cc: Meteorite-list Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale Darren, I hear you, but it's not about the rich snobs, it's about economic forces brought to the table which will result in a more stable marketplace and increasing valuations---and that's good for all of us. Wouldn't it be great if there were market factors which limited the kinds of aberrations which have stung us all at one time or another? I'm all for fun! ;-) From cynapse at charter.net Sun Dec 7 13:09:49 2008 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2008 13:09:49 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale In-Reply-To: <0417DF28-A44E-41D8-9387-1F7A152D4FB4@dof3.com> References: <907F937D1D8A4B4CA3651D01AA9C11A5@JeffPC> <93aaac890812070034k44cd6a42r24ca1d521628dd31@mail.gmail.com> <44DF8989-38A8-4849-98CE-DCD16EAF5E45@dof3.com> <8usnj4l95ri1hom8ei9piacnmivot9plqj@4ax.com> <0417DF28-A44E-41D8-9387-1F7A152D4FB4@dof3.com> Message-ID: <704oj49cu4a62cea104jov1etfo0jdm181@4ax.com> On Sun, 7 Dec 2008 12:27:44 -0500, you wrote: >I hear you, but it's not about the rich snobs, it's about economic >forces brought to the table which will result in a more stable >marketplace and increasing valuations---and that's good for all of >us. Wouldn't it be great if there were market factors which limited >the kinds of aberrations which have stung us all at one time or another? If there is something that I want, I buy it to keep, not for some future resale value. So if I pay, say, $50 a gram for something now, and a year from now, it is selling for $5 a gram, that just means that I can now buy 10 times as much. And if it falls to 50 cents a gram, I can buy 10 times as much again. Here's the thing about my hobbies-- I don't expect to ever get back the money that I put into them. As a computer hobbiest, I spent $40 per megabyte for the first memory expansions I added to my PC ($160 for 4 MB). Last week, I spent one penny per megabyte ($20 for 4096 MB). I not only am used to falling prices on things (thus destruction of cash value of investments)-- I want it. From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Sun Dec 7 13:09:55 2008 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 10:09:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Bonhams Auction? Message-ID: <436726.30791.qm@web110210.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Anyone here bidding on anything live? I am curious to know where the meteorites are at, if they have sold. mike From cynapse at charter.net Sun Dec 7 13:12:11 2008 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2008 13:12:11 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale In-Reply-To: <782BB2DE1C224AB6B2EB25C869628539@meteorroom> References: <907F937D1D8A4B4CA3651D01AA9C11A5@JeffPC><93aaac890812070034k44cd6a42r24ca1d521628dd31@mail.gmail.com><44DF8989-38A8-4849-98CE-DCD16EAF5E45@dof3.com><8usnj4l95ri1hom8ei9piacnmivot9plqj@4ax.com> <0417DF28-A44E-41D8-9387-1F7A152D4FB4@dof3.com> <782BB2DE1C224AB6B2EB25C869628539@meteorroom> Message-ID: <6d4oj49uomrukqh8m0dda83m0np2hmc9gd@4ax.com> On Sun, 7 Dec 2008 12:57:16 -0500, you wrote: >Darren & All, >Back to ridiculous class warfare...nice. This is a serious business Here's the thing-- for you, it is a business. For me, it isn't. From darryl at dof3.com Sun Dec 7 13:17:36 2008 From: darryl at dof3.com (Darryl Pitt) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 13:17:36 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale In-Reply-To: <642878.43899.qm@web45112.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <642878.43899.qm@web45112.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <9D892F69-50AC-49BD-8BD8-6730C98FD0A0@dof3.com> Hi Carl, Yes-yes, of course this is about rarity, but the valuation of meteorites frequently has so much to do with circumstances of the fall and recovery, and that's where it's not quite the same as other collectibles. There are dozens and dozens of really colorful examples which underscore this dynamic. The notion of rarity is not intrinsic to scientific importance. A-L-L-E-N-D-E. And to use your example, if Carancas occurred in Africa is it worth more or less? Canada or Montana? Detroit or Corsica? And if in Corsica, what about if it occurred in Bastia or instead fell on a nude beach in front of a crowd? In short, if you accept there are a host of variables determining valuations, the "added value" of a bolide video makes that meteorite worth more. And then it only seems to follow---everything else being the same--that a spectacular video would render a higher valuation for the material than a mediocre video. With this in mind, even if there are 100 kg of material of the Canadian event, it's my opinion that it's worth more than $10/g. Thanks for your thoughtful note and I hope meteorite collecting provides you with a great source of enjoyment. All best / Darryl On Dec 7, 2008, at 11:19 AM, Carl Esparza wrote: > Darryl, > With all due respect, As you know I am new at this and I tend to > hear the same sort of things from friends about meteorite > collecting. But as a life long art and antique dealer i see it a > little different. Yes, meteorites have the curb appeal and all of > the hype but the main thing that should be driving the value is > rarity. Yes, a fireball is a rarity but not really ( maybe?) . Lets > face it we have all seen incredible fireballs. I think , since > recent studies have shown that most material that passes though our > atmosphere does not show crust and therefore is missed so, we miss a > lot of rare material. Now if we ever discover an unusual material > that fell that would be something and rare. The way I see our > scientists study habits is primarily pigeonholing the material. If > it ain't covered with the black stuff they just toss it aside. Even > though they know damn well about the recent studies which had real > rocks attached to the cone of a rocket's re-entry and it's results. > They also know much more about the types of rocks and their > layering textures on other planets and yet still not one find with > layering. Darryl, to me that is what is wrong with this hobby. No > direction. There should be way more scientists willing to look at > more than just the obvious and not assume it to be earthen because > it has layers or no fusion crust. > But back to the point . Rarity is what creates value and falls like > Carancas truly are rare events. It not only crated a crater but it > did it with a very friable material and it's cosmochemestry is being > described as inexplicable. Having said that. I have yet to read one > single scientific paper on the subject. These so called scientists > in this field totally dropped the ball on this extraordinary > information. And so the value plummets on material that truly is > rare and desireable as such. > Thanks again Carl > Carl Esparza > meteoritemax > IMCA 5829 > > > --- On Sun, 12/7/08, Darryl Pitt wrote: > From: Darryl Pitt > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale > To: "Jason Utas" > Cc: "Meteorite-list" > Date: Sunday, December 7, 2008, 8:38 AM > > Folks, > > If I've said it once I've said it a thousand times: meteorites as a > collectible do not attract more serious collectors because there are > too many > aberrations of valuation--such that the aberrations have become the > norm. > Several serious collectors who have been intrigued with meteorites > have shared > with me that they've opted not to climb in because of their belief > in an > "immature" and "unsophisticated" marketplace. Their words. > > In my humble opinion, the quality of the fireball video associated > with the > Canadian event makes it worth far more than the low-end numbers > being bandied > about. > > Everything else being the same, no witnessed fall should ever sell > for a couple > of bucks a gram, and we should all strive to make certain this doesn't > occur. > > All best / d > > > ===================== > > > On Dec 7, 2008, at 3:34 AM, Jason Utas wrote: > > > Hello Jeff, All, > > > > The comparison to Carancas was provided as a contrast simply because > > it is such an unusual and different meteorite, and yet the asking > > price for these new Canadian stones is roughly what Carancas is > going > > for right now. It's a large, ordinary, equilibrated chondrite fall, > > the likes of which we see almost once a year with some regularity > > (e.g. Thuathe, Amgala, Park Forest, Kilabo, Bensour, Chergach, > > Bassikounou, Berduc, etc.). > > > > And the asking price is more than Park Forest, which was a > spectacular > > urban fall, and of which less material was found. The asking price > > for Park Forest currently runs between $20-30/g, from what I can > find. > > A dealer or two have it listed at $40/g, but...not average. The > > price at the time was...$20-30/g. It started high, and, because of > > great demand for the urban fall, it stayed high. > > > > All of the other falls are ~$1.20/g (see the beautifully fresh 1.7kg > > Chergach that just passed on ebay, from ET, as well as a brace of > > stones I personally bought in the 120g range from an American > dealer) > > to the asking price of $5-10/g for pieces of the other falls (see > ebay > > - meteoritica, Hupe - both have Chergach currently listed on ebay, > and > > there's quite a bit of Bensour around if you want to compare that), > > not that they sell quickly at those prices. After all, if you > look at > > what's listed, well, those are the pieces that have yet to sell. > > > > The only comparable meteorite I can find is the Argentinean fall of > > Berduc, which, though I can't name any names (it was a while ago), > was > > listed between $10 and $30/g. Restricted export, few suppliers, > fresh > > fall, etc. > > > > The initial determining of the asking price of a fall is essentially > > arbitrary The hunters could set it at $5/g or $10/g if they only > > wanted to cover personal costs (and make a little on the side). Or > > they could try to set it at $1000/g to make a profit. The only > thing > > keeping them from charging that much is the knowledge that, at some > > point, they wouldn't turn a profit because their asking price > would be > > too high for anyone to buy. > > A dealer looking to turn as high a profit as possible would ask as > > high a price as he could, while still selling all of his material. > > > > Why wouldn't they? Do you really feel indignant enough at the > > dealers' asking five or ten times the price for comparable falls to > > not buy a stone from them? Personally, I do, and I won't. I think > > they're taking advantage of us folks who love them, but who have > jobs > > and obligations - people who love them enough that we would go on > such > > trips that we could, but who can't because of our responsibilities. > > > > But let's have some fun. > > > > Lets assume these fellows come back with a mere 500g. Just over a > > pound of space, between the two of them. > > And let's assume a high trip/cost estimate: > > Given that next-day flights to Edmonton from where I live were ~ > $130, > > and let's say they both stay there for a week at $80/night + food, a > > car....it works out to about a thousand dollars for the trip, each. > > $2,000 combined cost. > > > > If that's right, they would break even at $4/g. Each $1/g over $4/g > > would give them $500. > > If they're asking $50/g, they would make...$46x500. > > > > That's a profit of $23,000. > > > > And if my estimate was off and they each flew first-class, rented > > Hummers, and spent $50/day on food, they'll only make $20,000 off of > > 500g. > > > > ...Do you think they got more than a pound of material from the > trip? > > I would assume so. > > A kilogram between the two of them would give them almost $50,000. > > Not bad for a quick flight up to Edmonton and a week's fun. > > > > I'll wait for the thaw. Anyone else who has spring break free > (dates > > available), drop me a line and I'll see what kind of a trip we can > > arrange. What I can promise is that if I do find enough on that > trip > > to warrant selling some, I'll have it at a reasonable price. > > > > Regards, > > Jason > > > > > > > > On Sat, Dec 6, 2008 at 11:18 PM, Jeff Kuyken > wrote: > >> Steve and Mike both touched on an interesting point here that I was > >> pondering myself the last couple of days. The material found now > will > be > >> different to the material found weeks, months and years down the > track. I > >> didn't realise how much a fall can vary until "Amgala" > (Oum Dreyga). I > >> purchased a 15g individual from Mike Farmer from his very first > batch > of > >> about 1kg. I believe these were about the first stones picked up. I > paid > >> about $10/g and it was worth every cent. I have several other Oum > Dreyga > >> specimens from numerous sources and NONE come even close to the > first > 15g > >> which looks like soot would rub off on your hands. In fact no other > recent > >> fall I have appears as fresh as this stone. Two other recent falls > that come > >> immediately to mind with vast differences in weathering are Park > Forest and > >> Moss. > >> > >> So maybe $50/g is high but maybe it's also not so bad considering > what the > >> other stones 'might' be like down the track. You can also > speculate all you > >> like but there are so many factors which will dictate the price > of a > fall. > >> And I don't think you can really compare one with another. > Comparing this > >> Canadian fall with Carancas is probably not a good measure at all. > They are > >> two totally different falls with two totally different stories. > >> > >> The most important thing to remember about the 'value' of a > meteorite (or > >> anything for that matter) is that it is only worth what someone is > willing > >> to pay. > >> > >> Cheers, > >> > >> Jeff > >> > >> > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- From: > >> To: ; > > >> Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 5:34 AM > >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale > >> > >> > >>> Greg and All, > >>> > >>> I tend to agree that the price MIGHT drop to $10/g, especially if > there > >>> is a > >>> high degree of rusting on the specimens found later next year. > >>> > >>> However, there is a chance the Canadians might offer to buy all > or most > >>> of > >>> the ones already found. > >>> > >>> If the land owners can get a tax credit on $50/g to donate them, > everyone > >>> up > >>> there might be happy to donate them, and at a 50% tax rate, that > is the > >>> same > >>> as getting $25/g cash in hand to the overtaxed Canadians. > >>> > >>> It sounds like most of the land owners are very wealthy, so money > may not > >>> mean anything to them. They might donate them all and not even > care > >>> about a > >>> tax break or cash values at all. > >>> > >>> If only a few kilos make it to the market place, then we could > see the > >>> value > >>> be higher than $10/g. > >>> > >>> If we seen hundreds of rusty kilos coming onto the market, then > we could > >>> see > >>> the prices end up way below $10/g. > >>> > >>> In any case, we probably will have to wait for the 6 months to > pass to > >>> see > >>> what is not purchased by the Canadian Government. > >>> > >>> One thing is sure, if ALL the masses were put on a restricted > Canadian > >>> only > >>> collector market, a few hundred kilos would probably sell for > $0.10 a > >>> gram or > >>> even less. > >>> > >>> A smart thing might be to buy one specimen from Sonny and > McCartney NOW > >>> at > >>> $50/g and then buy more later at $10/g and if the price goes down > to > >>> under > >>> $1/g then buy so much more that you will have cost averaged your > first > >>> purchase > >>> at $50/g down to a reasonable level. > >>> > >>> Of course, if you are one of those people that get a rush at > owning the > >>> newest most famous meteorite that everyone is talking about > around the > >>> water > >>> cooler, then how can you put a value on that??? > >>> > >>> :-) > >>> > >>> And also, realize that if you do buy a meteorite from Sonny and > McCartney > >>> now, you are investing into field recovery. I seriously doubt > they will > >>> make a > >>> profit on this trip even if they sold what little they found at > $100/g, > >>> but > >>> if they can come close to breaking even, maybe next time they > will again > >>> be > >>> able to afford to get on the scene early and find more. > >>> > >>> And at the very least, we should congratulate them on getting to > the > >>> scene > >>> and making an effort. > >>> > >>> Good job guys, and congratulations! > >>> > >>> Steve Arnold #1 > >>> www.SteveArnoldMeteorites.com > >>> > >>> **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, > and > >>> favorite sites in one place. Try it now. > >>> > >>> > (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010 > ) > >>> ______________________________________________ > >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com > >>> Meteorite-list mailing list > >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > >>> > >>> > >> > >> ______________________________________________ > >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com > >> Meteorite-list mailing list > >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > >> > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From searchingforfun at sbcglobal.net Sun Dec 7 15:34:06 2008 From: searchingforfun at sbcglobal.net (Brian Cox) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 12:34:06 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD SALE Estherville Meteorite on ebay for Sale 31.0 grams very nice membrane box included.. ends Today Sunday December 7. 2008 18:33:41 Pacific time Message-ID: <004101c958ab$27514820$4001a8c0@BRIANSCOMPUTER> Hello list members, I hope everyone is having a Great weekend! I have a very nice Estherville with beautiful metal and a matrix of olivine that ends Today Sunday Dec-07-08 20:50:45 PST Pacific time. I've knocked the starting price down several times. It comes with a great looking clear membrane display box and I'm paying for the shipping by USPS Priority mail anywhere in the US. Normal shipping rates apply outside the US. Shortcut to: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=280290626570&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT&ih=018 I'm putting up more meteorites on ebay over the next few days. Thanks for looking. Brian Cox searchingforfun on ebay IMCA # 6387 From dave at fallingrocks.com Sun Dec 7 14:17:43 2008 From: dave at fallingrocks.com (Dave Gheesling) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 14:17:43 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale In-Reply-To: <6d4oj49uomrukqh8m0dda83m0np2hmc9gd@4ax.com> References: <907F937D1D8A4B4CA3651D01AA9C11A5@JeffPC><93aaac890812070034k44cd6a42r24ca1d521628dd31@mail.gmail.com><44DF8989-38A8-4849-98CE-DCD16EAF5E45@dof3.com><8usnj4l95ri1hom8ei9piacnmivot9plqj@4ax.com><0417DF28-A44E-41D8-9387-1F7A152D4FB4@dof3.com><782BB2DE1C224AB6B2EB25C869628539@meteorroom> <6d4oj49uomrukqh8m0dda83m0np2hmc9gd@4ax.com> Message-ID: Darren, It is not a business for me; I am simply a collector. That said, whether you like it or not, it is a business in the aggregate. My point about class warfare -- apart from it being a weak platform entirely -- is that if one wants to engage in it one should perhaps at least consider having some (class, that is). You wrote: "Here's the thing about my hobbies-- I don't expect to ever get back the money that I put into them...I not only am used to falling prices on things (thus destruction of cash value of investments)-- I want it." It would be hard to use logic to respond to that thinking... Within the rapidly advancing world of technological R&D, it is obvious that this dynamic will exist; that said, I'm not sure why anyone would wish for it in places where it needn't be. If you only expect to lose money as you spend it, the aforementioned class envy will no doubt persist. Just because others may have used different -- one might say more prudent -- thinking in engaging in this arena, it doesn't mean...oh, never mind... Dave www.fallingrocks.com -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Darren Garrison Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 1:12 PM To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale On Sun, 7 Dec 2008 12:57:16 -0500, you wrote: >Darren & All, >Back to ridiculous class warfare...nice. This is a serious business Here's the thing-- for you, it is a business. For me, it isn't. ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From dave at fallingrocks.com Sun Dec 7 14:21:11 2008 From: dave at fallingrocks.com (Dave Gheesling) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 14:21:11 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale In-Reply-To: <007f01c95895$c925d140$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> References: <907F937D1D8A4B4CA3651D01AA9C11A5@JeffPC><93aaac890812070034k44cd6a42r24ca1d521628dd31@mail.gmail.com><44DF8989-38A8-4849-98CE-DCD16EAF5E45@dof3.com><8usnj4l95ri1hom8ei9piacnmivot9plqj@4ax.com><0417DF28-A44E-41D8-9387-1F7A152D4FB4@dof3.com> <007f01c95895$c925d140$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: <0B7797476ECA45CF9807214ABF865EA0@meteorroom> Martin, I can't find it at the moment, but someone sent me what seemed to be a quality analysis of eBay meteorite volume fairly recently which indicated that the annual market was about $2,000,000 USD. The figure was extrapolated from a fairly narrow window (either a week or a month). Best, Dave www.fallingrocks.com -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Martin Altmann Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 1:01 PM To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale Meteorites and "Market"? I have always my difficulties. A collectors market? Hmm 71 million$ for a Warhol here, 40 milions for a van Gogh there, 2.5 million for a Macke here, 120 millions for a Klimt there... And the stuff we collect is rarer than these... (In principle it is bizarre to discuss, whether a Bassikonou or a Mali should cost 50 cents, 1$, 3$ or 1000$.... or a Moon 1000$ or 10,000,000 isn't it?) Imagine, if only a single of these collectors buying such collectibles will discover meteorites as a field of collecting. Eeeek! Once such a sum spend like for such a painting - and booooom - there is no meteorite market anymore, because there are no meteorites left :-) Any estimates, which annual volumes in total are moved in the meteorite market? Ebay-fanatics - has one of you ever noted how many $$$ are actually sold (sold not offered) in meteorites there per week? Would be interesting. Martin -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Darryl Pitt Gesendet: Sonntag, 7. Dezember 2008 18:28 An: cynapse at charter.net Cc: Meteorite-list Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale Darren, I hear you, but it's not about the rich snobs, it's about economic forces brought to the table which will result in a more stable marketplace and increasing valuations---and that's good for all of us. Wouldn't it be great if there were market factors which limited the kinds of aberrations which have stung us all at one time or another? I'm all for fun! ;-) ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From cynapse at charter.net Sun Dec 7 14:26:27 2008 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2008 14:26:27 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale In-Reply-To: <782BB2DE1C224AB6B2EB25C869628539@meteorroom> References: <907F937D1D8A4B4CA3651D01AA9C11A5@JeffPC><93aaac890812070034k44cd6a42r24ca1d521628dd31@mail.gmail.com><44DF8989-38A8-4849-98CE-DCD16EAF5E45@dof3.com><8usnj4l95ri1hom8ei9piacnmivot9plqj@4ax.com> <0417DF28-A44E-41D8-9387-1F7A152D4FB4@dof3.com> <782BB2DE1C224AB6B2EB25C869628539@meteorroom> Message-ID: On Sun, 7 Dec 2008 12:57:16 -0500, you wrote: >This is a serious business... One last point on this-- of course a "business" will legitamately want to make as much money for product or service X as they can for it-- but it is entirely a different matter to expect customers of said business to want the business to charge more, which is what Darryl said and I was replying to-- quote: "Everything else being the same, no witnessed fall should ever sell for a couple of bucks a gram, and we should all strive to make certain this doesn't occur." Meaning-- we should try to keep the prices of these high, even if they could sell for less. With the implication that this is to attract "serious collectors", which seems to mean rich people collecting for future profits. Now, while (to illustrate with some other buyable product) it is well and good for Best Buy to want $1000 for a flat-screen TV if they can get it. But it isn't reasonable to expect the customer to want Best Buy to charge $1000 for that flat-screen when it COULD sell for $100. If what it costs to sell it at a profit is $1000, then fine. But if it could be sold for $100, why on Earth would the customer be expected to get behind selling it for $1000 just because $100 is "too cheap"? My position as a consumer is to attempt to pay the lowest reasonable cost for any item. I'd think that the main expense for hunters isn't the travel costs, but the cost of buying the meteorites from the land owner, who always expect it to be a "get rich quick" situation. If the land owners expect (and get) a price that requires hunters to resell it at around $50 a gram, then that's what the hunters will have to charge. But if the land owners didn't expect as much money, then the resellers wouldn't have to charge as much money. It is a feedback loop. From cynapse at charter.net Sun Dec 7 14:31:33 2008 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2008 14:31:33 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] : Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale In-Reply-To: References: <907F937D1D8A4B4CA3651D01AA9C11A5@JeffPC><93aaac890812070034k44cd6a42r24ca1d521628dd31@mail.gmail.com><44DF8989-38A8-4849-98CE-DCD16EAF5E45@dof3.com><8usnj4l95ri1hom8ei9piacnmivot9plqj@4ax.com><0417DF28-A44E-41D8-9387-1F7A152D4FB4@dof3.com><782BB2DE1C224AB6B2EB25C869628539@meteorroom> <6d4oj49uomrukqh8m0dda83m0np2hmc9gd@4ax.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 7 Dec 2008 14:17:43 -0500, you wrote: >having some (class, that is). You wrote: "Here's the thing about my >hobbies-- I don't expect to ever get back the money that I put into them...I >not only am used to falling prices on things (thus destruction of cash value >of investments)-- I want it." It would be hard to use logic to respond to >that thinking... Why? What is illogical about that thinking? When you see something that you like, do you think "gee, that's cool-- I'd like to have that-- but I wonder how much money I can get back for it at some point in the future if I decided to sell it?" The value of hobbies is the pursuit of the hobby, not the theoretical future depreciated value of the subject of the hobby. HELL YES I want price collapses on the things that interest me! See, I think of money as a necessary evil to be used to buy things that I want, not an object of worship in and of itself. I'm not a Republican. (wait, I didn't say that) From darryl at dof3.com Sun Dec 7 14:58:49 2008 From: darryl at dof3.com (Darryl Pitt) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 14:58:49 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale In-Reply-To: References: <907F937D1D8A4B4CA3651D01AA9C11A5@JeffPC><93aaac890812070034k44cd6a42r24ca1d521628dd31@mail.gmail.com><44DF8989-38A8-4849-98CE-DCD16EAF5E45@dof3.com><8usnj4l95ri1hom8ei9piacnmivot9plqj@4ax.com> <0417DF28-A44E-41D8-9387-1F7A152D4FB4@dof3.com> <782BB2DE1C224AB6B2EB25C869628539@meteorroom> Message-ID: <229E9866-D9C6-4102-8E40-FE4EC8F54413@dof3.com> Hi Again, Darren... Gotta jump in for a minute before taking off.... Two very different thoughts were thrown together and the result is a bit confusing. I was not suggesting to keep prices high. Oh my golly, no. I am only attempting to suggest that a longer view should be taken and that it would be nice if an effort were made to reduce the number of pricing anomalies. By the way, most wealthy collectors I know do not buy common specimens. The involvement of such collectors simply provides increased stability by driving overall demand which enhances the value of all of our collections---not a bad thing. It's going to be a long, long time before any of us have to worry about an inability to be able to snag cheap meteorites. All best and wishing everyone a nice Sunday! Darryl On Dec 7, 2008, at 2:26 PM, Darren Garrison wrote: > On Sun, 7 Dec 2008 12:57:16 -0500, you wrote: > >> This is a serious business... > > One last point on this-- of course a "business" will legitamately > want to make > as much money for product or service X as they can for it-- but it > is entirely a > different matter to expect customers of said business to want the > business to > charge more, which is what Darryl said and I was replying to-- > > quote: > > "Everything else being the same, no witnessed fall should ever sell > for > a couple of bucks a gram, and we should all strive to make certain > this doesn't occur." > > Meaning-- we should try to keep the prices of these high, even if > they could > sell for less. With the implication that this is to attract "serious > collectors", which seems to mean rich people collecting for future > profits. > > Now, while (to illustrate with some other buyable product) it is > well and good > for Best Buy to want $1000 for a flat-screen TV if they can get it. > But it > isn't reasonable to expect the customer to want Best Buy to charge > $1000 for > that flat-screen when it COULD sell for $100. If what it costs to > sell it at a > profit is $1000, then fine. But if it could be sold for $100, why > on Earth > would the customer be expected to get behind selling it for $1000 > just because > $100 is "too cheap"? My position as a consumer is to attempt to pay > the lowest > reasonable cost for any item. > > I'd think that the main expense for hunters isn't the travel costs, > but the cost > of buying the meteorites from the land owner, who always expect it > to be a "get > rich quick" situation. If the land owners expect (and get) a price > that > requires hunters to resell it at around $50 a gram, then that's what > the hunters > will have to charge. But if the land owners didn't expect as much > money, then > the resellers wouldn't have to charge as much money. It is a > feedback loop. > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From dave at fallingrocks.com Sun Dec 7 15:09:31 2008 From: dave at fallingrocks.com (Dave Gheesling) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 15:09:31 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale In-Reply-To: References: <907F937D1D8A4B4CA3651D01AA9C11A5@JeffPC><93aaac890812070034k44cd6a42r24ca1d521628dd31@mail.gmail.com><44DF8989-38A8-4849-98CE-DCD16EAF5E45@dof3.com><8usnj4l95ri1hom8ei9piacnmivot9plqj@4ax.com><0417DF28-A44E-41D8-9387-1F7A152D4FB4@dof3.com><782BB2DE1C224AB6B2EB25C869628539@meteorroom> Message-ID: <1A07E86766A640C289C5B5310ADB6C3C@meteorroom> Darren/All, >From the perspective of the customer, Darren, I'd agree with a lot of what you've said below. Your example has more to do with market efficiencies and the removal of unnecessary costs from a channel, though, and I don't think this is what Darryl was driving towards. Meteorites are different from flat screen TVs. For all intents and purposes, "everyone" knows what a flat screen TV is and that they come at a fairly predictable price. Very, very few know much about meteorites (it's easy to forget that from the vantage point of this list), and even those predisposed (say, astronomy buffs) to be interested in acquiring them tend to not realize this is possible. As we continue expanding our reach into space; as extremely effective marketers such as Darryl get the word out to more and more across the globe; as science continues to unveil more fascinations locked up within meteorites; as the global population grows and the internet bandwidth continues making that growing world smaller; as all of these things happen, more and more human beings will be interested in acquiring meteorites and it will drive specimen values up (to where they "should" be, given an efficient marketplace distributing them, which we don't yet have) and -- the best part -- more and more people will be inspired by the "electric" feeling (as Norton put it well) one gets in holding a rock in your hand older than the one you're standing one. It seems inevitable, excepting other possible short-term reserves such as the Sahara holding back this progression as weathered finds hit the market for a while, that the pace of collector growth will far outstrip the supply of meteorites over the long haul. You also wrote: "Why? What is illogical about that thinking [THAT IT'S A GOOD THING TO SEE THE VALUE OF THINGS FALL AFTER ONE PURCHASES THEM]? When you see something that you like, do you think "gee, that's cool-- I'd like to have that-- but I wonder how much money I can get back for it at some point in the future if I decided to sell it?" The value of hobbies is the pursuit of the hobby, not the theoretical future depreciated value of the subject of the hobby. HELL YES I want price collapses on the things that interest me! See, I think of money as a necessary evil to be used to buy things that I want, not an object of worship in and of itself. I'm not a Republican." It goes without saying that you are not a Republican, but I'm not either. We've come to think in North America that the necessities of life fall off of trees and the advancement of civilization is some foregone conclusion. This is unfortunately not true. Money isn't a necessary evil; it is a vehicle which makes trading more efficient than it was in the days of barter. It also motivates people to take all sorts of risks in search of the meteorites you seem to enjoy yourself. The staggering facts associated with meteorites at least provide some wonderful perspective to those of us willing to contemplate it, and I think I'll go spend some time with a few now... Best regards, Dave www.fallingrocks.com -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Darren Garrison Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 2:26 PM To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale On Sun, 7 Dec 2008 12:57:16 -0500, you wrote: >This is a serious business... One last point on this-- of course a "business" will legitamately want to make as much money for product or service X as they can for it-- but it is entirely a different matter to expect customers of said business to want the business to charge more, which is what Darryl said and I was replying to-- quote: "Everything else being the same, no witnessed fall should ever sell for a couple of bucks a gram, and we should all strive to make certain this doesn't occur." Meaning-- we should try to keep the prices of these high, even if they could sell for less. With the implication that this is to attract "serious collectors", which seems to mean rich people collecting for future profits. Now, while (to illustrate with some other buyable product) it is well and good for Best Buy to want $1000 for a flat-screen TV if they can get it. But it isn't reasonable to expect the customer to want Best Buy to charge $1000 for that flat-screen when it COULD sell for $100. If what it costs to sell it at a profit is $1000, then fine. But if it could be sold for $100, why on Earth would the customer be expected to get behind selling it for $1000 just because $100 is "too cheap"? My position as a consumer is to attempt to pay the lowest reasonable cost for any item. I'd think that the main expense for hunters isn't the travel costs, but the cost of buying the meteorites from the land owner, who always expect it to be a "get rich quick" situation. If the land owners expect (and get) a price that requires hunters to resell it at around $50 a gram, then that's what the hunters will have to charge. But if the land owners didn't expect as much money, then the resellers wouldn't have to charge as much money. It is a feedback loop. ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From cynapse at charter.net Sun Dec 7 15:21:37 2008 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2008 15:21:37 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale In-Reply-To: <1A07E86766A640C289C5B5310ADB6C3C@meteorroom> References: <907F937D1D8A4B4CA3651D01AA9C11A5@JeffPC><93aaac890812070034k44cd6a42r24ca1d521628dd31@mail.gmail.com><44DF8989-38A8-4849-98CE-DCD16EAF5E45@dof3.com><8usnj4l95ri1hom8ei9piacnmivot9plqj@4ax.com><0417DF28-A44E-41D8-9387-1F7A152D4FB4@dof3.com><782BB2DE1C224AB6B2EB25C869628539@meteorroom> <1A07E86766A640C289C5B5310ADB6C3C@meteorroom> Message-ID: On Sun, 7 Dec 2008 15:09:31 -0500, you wrote: >We've come to think in North America that the necessities of life fall off >of trees and the advancement of civilization is some foregone conclusion. >This is unfortunately not true. Money isn't a necessary evil; it is a >vehicle which makes trading more efficient than it was in the days of >barter. You're obviously a fan of some science fiction, with the Star Trek references. My favorite possible (if possible) future societies in SF are post-scarcity, post-singularity ones. So, it may be (is) just a fantasy, but it is exactly the type of world I strive towards and wish to live in. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_scarcity http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=post+scarcity+society&btnG=Google+Search&aq=3&oq=post+scarcity http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity From mexicodoug at aim.com Sun Dec 7 15:22:39 2008 From: mexicodoug at aim.com (mexicodoug at aim.com) Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2008 15:22:39 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] : Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale In-Reply-To: References: <907F937D1D8A4B4CA3651D01AA9C11A5@JeffPC><93aaac890812070034k44cd6a42r24ca1d521628dd31@mail.gmail.com><44DF8989-38A8-4849-98CE-DCD16EAF5E45@dof3.com><8usnj4l95ri1hom8ei9piacnmivot9plqj@4ax.com><0417DF28-A44E-41D8-9387-1F7A152D4FB4@dof3.com><782BB2DE1C224AB6B2EB25C869628539@meteorroom><6d4oj49uomrukqh8m0dda83m0np2hmc9gd@4ax.com> Message-ID: <8CB26C0AF1F105E-17D4-666@WEBMAIL-MA18.sysops.aol.com> Time out on the HBO Meteorite channel, Hi all, This present discussion reminds me of a chapter which settled everything completely in 1941. "The Little Prince" (1941) has an excellent treatise on matters of consequence, the roll of 'government' lording over space rocks, adults and businessmen vs. the rest of us and common sense, and who owns space rocks, and the roll of the collector: http://home.pacific.net.hk/~rebylee/text/prince/13.html Happy Holidays, tongue frozen to cheek. Doug Republicano (Republic of Mexico, where everyone is entitled to their opinion even if no one listens) Chapter 13 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- The fourth planet belonged to a businessman. This man was so much occupied that he did not even raise his head at the little prince's arrival. "Good morning," the little prince said to him. "Your cigarette has gone out." "Three and two make five. Five and seven make twelve. Twelve and three make fifteen. Good morning. FIfteen and seven make twenty-two. Twenty-two and six make twenty-eight. I haven't time to light it again. Twenty-six and five make thirty-one. Phew ! Then that makes five-hundred-and-one-million, six-hundred-twenty-two-thousand, seven-hundred-thirty-one." "Five hundred million what?" asked the little prince. "Eh? Are you still there? Five-hundred-and-one million-- I can't stop... I have so much to do! I am concerned with matters of consequence. I don't amuse myself with balderdash. Two and five make seven..." [picture] "Five-hundred-and-one million what?" repeated the little prince, who never in his life had let go of a question once he had asked it. The businessman raised his head. "During the fifty-four years that I have inhabited this planet, I have been disturbed only three times. The first time was twenty-two years ago, when some giddy goose fell from goodness knows where. He made the most frightful noise that resounded all ov er the place, and I made four mistakes in my addition. The second time, eleven years ago, I was disturbed by an attack of rheumatism. I don't get enough exercise. I have no time for loafing. The third time-- well, this is it! I was saying, then, five -hundred-and-one millions--" "Millions of what?" The businessman suddenly realized that there was no hope of being left in peace until he answered this question. "Millions of those little objects," he said, "which one sometimes sees in the sky." "Flies?" "Oh, no. Little glittering objects." "Bees?" "Oh, no. Little golden objects that set lazy men to idle dreaming. As for me, I am concerned with matters of consequence. There is no time for idle dreaming in my life." "Ah! You mean the stars?" "Yes, that's it. The stars." "And what do you do with five-hundred millions of stars?" "Five-hundred-and-one million, six-hundred-twenty-two thousand, seven-hundred-thirty-one. I am concerned with matters of consequence: I am accurate." "And what do you do with these stars?" "What do I do with them?" "Yes." "Nothing. I own them." "You own the stars?" "Yes." "But I have already seen a king who--" "Kings do not own, they reign over. It is a very different matter." "And what good does it do you to own the stars?" "It does me the good of making me rich." "And what good does it do you to be rich?" "It makes it possible for me to buy more stars, if any are ever discovered." "This man," the little prince said to himself, "reasons a little like my poor tippler..." Nevertheless, he still had some more questions. "How is it possible for one to own the stars?" "To whom do they belong?" the businessman retorted, peevishly. "I don't know. To nobody." "Then they belong to me, because I was the first person to think of it." "Is that all that is necessary?" "Certainly. When you find a diamond that belongs to nobody, it is yours. When you discover an island that belongs to nobody, it is yours. When you get an idea before any one else, you take out a patent on it: it is yours. So with me: I own the stars, because nobody else before me ever thought of owning them." "Yes, that is true," said the little prince. "And what do you do with them?" "I administer them," replied the businessman. "I count them and recount them. It is difficult. But I am a man who is naturally interested in matters of consequence." The little prince was still not satisfied. "If I owned a silk scarf," he said, "I could put it around my neck and take it away with me. If I owned a flower, I could pluck that flower and take it away with me. But you cannot pluck the stars from heaven..." "No. But I can put them in the bank." "Whatever does that mean?" "That means that I write the number of my stars on a little paper. And then I put this paper in a drawer and lock it with a key." "And that is all?" "That is enough," said the businessman. "It is entertaining," thought the little prince. "It is rather poetic. But it is of no great consequence." On matters of consequence, the little prince had ideas which were very different from those of the grown-ups. "I myself own a flower," he continued his conversation with the businessman, "which I water every day. I own three volcanoes, which I clean out every week (for I also clean out the one that is extinct; one never knows). It is of some use to my volcanoes , and it is of some use to my flower, that I own them. But you are of no use to the stars..." The businessman opened his mouth, but he found nothing to say in answer. And the little prince went away. "The grown-ups are certainly altogether extraordinary," he said simply, talking to himself as he continued on his journey. Happy Holidays Doug -----Original Message----- From: Darren Garrison To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 2:31 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] : Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale On Sun, 7 Dec 2008 14:17:43 -0500, you wrote: >having some (class, that is). You wrote: "Here's the thing about my >hobbies-- I don't expect to ever get back the money that I put into them...I >not only am used to falling prices on things (thus destruction of cash value >of investments)-- I want it." It would be hard to use logic to respond to >that thinking... Why? What is illogical about that thinking? When you see something that you like, do you think "gee, that's cool-- I'd like to have that-- but I wonder how much money I can get back for it at some point in the future if I decided to sell it?" The value of hobbies is the pursuit of the hobby, not the theoretical future depreciated value of the subject of the hobby. HELL YES I want price collapses on the things that interest me! See, I think of money as a necessary evil to be used to buy things that I want, not an object of worship in and of itself. I'm not a Republican. (wait, I didn't say that) ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Sun Dec 7 15:39:10 2008 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 12:39:10 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Bonhams auction bomb Message-ID: <371726.42456.qm@web110215.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Looks like the meteorites in the auction did pretty poorly overall. My stuff was just about given away. A piece of Udei Station, fall, silicated iron, sold for $2.00 gram! I was going to bid in person, but cancelled the trip due to illness. Man, this sucks. Michael Farmer From dave at fallingrocks.com Sun Dec 7 15:59:40 2008 From: dave at fallingrocks.com (Dave Gheesling) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 15:59:40 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale In-Reply-To: References: <907F937D1D8A4B4CA3651D01AA9C11A5@JeffPC><93aaac890812070034k44cd6a42r24ca1d521628dd31@mail.gmail.com><44DF8989-38A8-4849-98CE-DCD16EAF5E45@dof3.com><8usnj4l95ri1hom8ei9piacnmivot9plqj@4ax.com><0417DF28-A44E-41D8-9387-1F7A152D4FB4@dof3.com><782BB2DE1C224AB6B2EB25C869628539@meteorroom><1A07E86766A640C289C5B5310ADB6C3C@meteorroom> Message-ID: <6ABDA1F5CD114506B96AC3CD60565144@meteorroom> Going to sign off after this one, Darren, as it's now way off topic. I'm not a science fiction fan at all, really, and wouldn't know without first being told what I've written that came from the annals of Star Trek. I think it's great that you're striving for that, as we're all well served in striving for something. Best wishes in your pursuit... Dave www.fallingrocks.com -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Darren Garrison Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 3:22 PM To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale On Sun, 7 Dec 2008 15:09:31 -0500, you wrote: >We've come to think in North America that the necessities of life fall >off of trees and the advancement of civilization is some foregone conclusion. >This is unfortunately not true. Money isn't a necessary evil; it is a >vehicle which makes trading more efficient than it was in the days of >barter. You're obviously a fan of some science fiction, with the Star Trek references. My favorite possible (if possible) future societies in SF are post-scarcity, post-singularity ones. So, it may be (is) just a fantasy, but it is exactly the type of world I strive towards and wish to live in. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_scarcity http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=post+scarcity+society&btnG=Google+Searc h&aq=3&oq=post+scarcity http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From gmhupe at htn.net Sun Dec 7 16:11:52 2008 From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 16:11:52 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] NEW Olivine Diogenite - NWA 4223 - AD Message-ID: <4830C09A71CA46C5B4112571141D7303@Gregor> Dear List Members, Last week I announced a new Olivine Diogenite, NWA 4223, that I had loaded all of the specimens on eBay. The last remaining 13 specimens will end tomorrow (Monday, December 8th). I also have some nice meteorites at great prices ending on Wednesday, most started at just 99 cents. Here is my original email: It is my pleasure to announce a NEW Olivine Diogenite, NWA 4223, the third member of this exclusive group. It took me three years to get to this point of first public offering so you know the science has been done! It has a TKW of just 329 grams and is very course-grained. I managed through eBay's site, so you can find all of the available material and "Official" classification of NWA 4223 with the "Buy it Now" feature here: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault In addition to these rare specimens, I have also listed these, most at reduced prices for the holidays: NWA 1878 Mesosiderite (Fantastic etch!) NWA 1879 Mesosiderite NWA 2932 Mesosiderite NWA 869 L4-6 1kg Lots NWA 3118 CV3 100g Lot NWA 3151 Brachinite Thin Section NWA 4528 H5 500g Lot Unclassified 2kg Lots Berduc Newspaper Chergach Individual 92.1g (99% crusted) Chergach Individual 64.1g (100% crusted) Gao Individual 154g (from Haag Collection) Glorieta Pallasite Individual 13.7g Muonionalusta End Cut 76.9g (starts at just 99 cents) Muonionalusta Complete Slice 262g (started at just 99 cents) ...and several other started at just 99 cents! Good Luck winning , and "Thank You" for bidding! Best regards, Greg ==================== Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmhupe at htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 ==================== Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault From psc2410xi at yahoo.com Sun Dec 7 16:29:23 2008 From: psc2410xi at yahoo.com (Don Rawlings) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 13:29:23 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Bonhams auction bomb In-Reply-To: <371726.42456.qm@web110215.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <978293.6590.qm@web59314.mail.re1.yahoo.com> But, but,,,,,,, I thought dealers were asking too low prices? That is what I read earlier on this list. I guess collectors should take not who argues for high prices and who argues for realistic prices. Note to self..... reread earlier posts today and take notes. Don Rawlings --- On Sun, 12/7/08, Michael Farmer wrote: > From: Michael Farmer > Subject: [meteorite-list] Bonhams auction bomb > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Sunday, December 7, 2008, 3:39 PM > Looks like the meteorites in the auction did pretty poorly > overall. > My stuff was just about given away. A piece of Udei > Station, fall, silicated iron, sold for $2.00 gram! I was > going to bid in person, but cancelled the trip due to > illness. > > Man, this sucks. > Michael Farmer > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From wahlperry at aol.com Sun Dec 7 17:14:01 2008 From: wahlperry at aol.com (wahlperry at aol.com) Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2008 17:14:01 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] New Canadian Meteorite for sale Message-ID: <8CB26D03E1FDFFF-15E0-D52@webmail-me11.sysops.aol.com> Hi All, I would have responded earlier but our Internet connection was not the best. We just flew in from Canada today. What is a fair price per gram? I would say it is up to the individuals that took the time and effort to get out in the field to do the recovery work. I knew before leaving home that if we were lucky enough to find any material that we would have to leave it in Canada and go through the proper channels to obtain this legally. Most of the area where the fall took place has been locked up with NO TRESPASSING signs posted. We were fortunate enough to negotiate a deal with the owners of some private property. We have been told the chances of any material leaving Canada with a permit is almost impossible. How nice would it be to have a new Canadian meteorite from a witnessed fall with proper documentation? This is my first time to pick up a meteorite as fresh as this. You can almost rub off the fusion crust and the interior is bright white. I will have a picture showing the interior of the meteorite posted within the next couple of days. So lets keep our fingers crossed to have these meteorites in the U.S.A within 6 months to a year. I was thinking about playing a joke on Mccartney and placing a meteorite in his backpack to see if he could make it through customs and once we made it into the U.S.A telling McCartney "Hey half of the meteorite is mine!" Just teasing. Thanks, Sonny From meteoritekid at gmail.com Sun Dec 7 17:57:43 2008 From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 14:57:43 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale In-Reply-To: <8AEC260D-E7F6-486F-B4D6-FCF939359569@dof3.com> References: <907F937D1D8A4B4CA3651D01AA9C11A5@JeffPC> <93aaac890812070034k44cd6a42r24ca1d521628dd31@mail.gmail.com> <44DF8989-38A8-4849-98CE-DCD16EAF5E45@dof3.com> <93aaac890812070802o77b7e335n3de3c8f6e456348e@mail.gmail.com> <8AEC260D-E7F6-486F-B4D6-FCF939359569@dof3.com> Message-ID: <93aaac890812071457i56165f5ev76ee01115802bbce@mail.gmail.com> Darryl, Darren, All, You referred to the low prices mentioned in my email when I had included Park Forest. If you didn't mention Park Forest, you didn't refer to my email in its entirety, and didn't clarify. How was I supposed to know you were only responding to half of my message? > As it regards the Chergach and Bassikounou examples, I sincerely believe > that irrespective of how inexpensive initial suppliers sell material, that > it is incumbent on us to consider the implications of our pricing in the > marketplace. So we should place some sort of value on meteorites above what the finders ask for them because....well, I can see why you as a dealer would say this -- but from a collectors point of view, your statement makes no sense whatsoever. Or from a logical standpoint. Why should rocks have some inherent monetary value? It makes no sense whatsoever. That said, if you, as a dealer/supplier decide that they should have some arbitrary value, and price what you sell accordingly...well, the final decision rests in my hands, as the buyer. You can ask for whatever you think they're worth, but unless the collectors on the other side agree with you, it doesn't matter. Dealers only have the ability to suggest prices. It's the collectors/buyers who actually set them. > I take a longer view of such anomalies. Just because I was offered Chergach > at $0.50/g doesn't mean that it's responsible for me to widely offer it for > $1.50/g even though it represents a 200% profit to me. Responsible? I'd say your fellow collectors would be happy, and content with the fact that they could afford specimens twice as large at the same cost as the ones they just bought. In fact, anyone reading this thread should now know that if they bought any from you, the reason they don't own a specimen twice as large is because you thought it would be irresponsible to only take a 200% mark-up. I'd be pissed-off, big time. >Whether we can > quantify the effect or not, beyond cheap meteorites have an effect on the > rest of the marketplace. They create their own "gravity." That's all I'm > trying to say. Oh, I never said it wouldn't have an effect on the rest of the market. Though now that you're bringing that up, you seem to be saying that having lower prices would be a bad thing. Considering that most people in the meteorite-world are collectors, and not dealers, well, you're in a minority. By all means, you're entitled to your view, but you are in a minority. As to whether or not it's worth, say, $10/g or more...you're entitled to your opinion as a dealer, and I'm sure that if you get your hands on some, you'll charge what you like. As said, I, as a potential buyer, will simply refrain from buying any and voice my opinion that way...as I'm sure others will as well. I've heard reports that the tkw could be well over 200kg or more; if, after a mere week of amateur hunting in sub-zero temperatures and restricted access, 40+kg were recovered...how much of any fall is ever collected in the first week? Maybe 10%? Maybe 20? - Sorry for the lateish reply, but I was at the Bonhams Auction. Jason On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 9:26 AM, Darryl Pitt wrote: > > > Jason, > > Small detail....I never mentioned Park Forest. And speaking of being "at a > loss for words," I don't quite know how to respond to your unbridled attack > on "my" point of view regarding the same(?!) > > As it regards the Chergach and Bassikounou examples, I sincerely believe > that irrespective of how inexpensive initial suppliers sell material, that > it is incumbent on us to consider the implications of our pricing in the > marketplace. > > I take a longer view of such anomalies. Just because I was offered Chergach > at $0.50/g doesn't mean that it's responsible for me to widely offer it for > $1.50/g even though it represents a 200% profit to me. Whether we can > quantify the effect or not, beyond cheap meteorites have an effect on the > rest of the marketplace. They create their own "gravity." That's all I'm > trying to say. > > All best / Darryl > > > > > On Dec 7, 2008, at 11:02 AM, Jason Utas wrote: > >> Darryl, >> Low-end numbers? Even Park Forest which was witnessed, caught on >> numerous videos, and fell in a densely populated urban environment - >> in what may well be a majority of cases, hitting man-made objects, was >> selling for $30/g or so at the time of the fall - a price which has >> stayed roughly the same, if it hasn't come down a few dollars per gram >> since then. >> How much Park Forest was recovered? According to this report, roughly >> 30kg. >> >> http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu/Aug04/ParkForest.html >> >> More of this fall has been recovered in the past week than from the >> entire fall of Park Forest. >> It hasn't hit anything interesting, as far as we know. >> It's an ordinary chondrite - even Park Forest had some pretty >> brecciation/melt. I've heard of nothing of the sort from this fall. >> It was caught on video, granted, and that does make it special in one >> way...why you think that should boost the value of it to twice the >> value of the undoubtedly more interesting Park Forest, also caught on >> video (and five or ten times the price of other comparable falls), I >> honestly...I'm at a lack for words. >> >> "Low-end numbers being bandied about?" >> >> On the one hand, you seem to criticize the high price being asked by >> these sellers, and on the other, you say the current market rates for >> other falls are "low-end numbers?" >> >> I don't understand. $5-10/g for these new falls is far overpriced, as >> best I can tell. At least with Chergach and Bassikounou, suppliers >> were contacting list-members directly and offering stones at $2/g >> initially - less for larger stones. >> >> You seem to be saying that's too cheap. Why? If the sellers are >> content, and I don't think the buyers are complaining, well, I can't >> see any reason for you to say such a thing. If both parties are >> happy, I honestly don't see how you can say such a thing. >> >> Look at the numbers from my last email. A mere $10/g would provide >> the hunters each with $5,000, assuming they only came back with 250g >> each. >> >> It's classic marketing technique to tell potential buyers that they >> got precious little out of the fall, as they said they did. >> If people think there's less, they'll want to buy more. There's a >> reason they're not telling anyone how much they got, after all. I >> wonder why...and I wonder if they ever will tell us how much they >> found/were allowed to keep.... After all, unless they're just using >> that as a marketing ploy, they really have no reason not to tell us. >> >> Jason >> >> On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 7:38 AM, Darryl Pitt wrote: >>> >>> >>> Folks, >>> >>> If I've said it once I've said it a thousand times: meteorites as a >>> collectible do not attract more serious collectors because there are too >>> many aberrations of valuation--such that the aberrations have become the >>> norm. Several serious collectors who have been intrigued with meteorites >>> have shared with me that they've opted not to climb in because of their >>> belief in an "immature" and "unsophisticated" marketplace. Their words. >>> >>> In my humble opinion, the quality of the fireball video associated with >>> the >>> Canadian event makes it worth far more than the low-end numbers being >>> bandied about. >>> >>> Everything else being the same, no witnessed fall should ever sell for a >>> couple of bucks a gram, and we should all strive to make certain this >>> doesn't occur. >>> >>> All best / d >>> >>> >>> ===================== >>> > From meteoritekid at gmail.com Sun Dec 7 18:11:14 2008 From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 15:11:14 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] New Canadian Meteorite for sale In-Reply-To: <8CB26D03E1FDFFF-15E0-D52@webmail-me11.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CB26D03E1FDFFF-15E0-D52@webmail-me11.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <93aaac890812071511w6b5db876jc9147a77913d6491@mail.gmail.com> Hola, I've heard that you fellows fetched over a kilogram. $50/g isn't a bad price for you to set, considering that you both probably spent less than $1,500 all told for the trip, each. I mean, it's not like you had to deal with any dangers or risk. You left when you knew meteorites had been found, and travelled to a safe, civilized location. I suppose there might have been a risk in not being allowed to search private land, but, honestly...that's not stopped any hunters I know on this list. Anyway, it sounds like nice material. Like every other fresh fall from the past...well, since forever. As to your stating that you "would say it is up to the individuals that took the time and effort to get out in the field to do the recovery work," well, fine. I just wonder why the hunters who went to Kilabo, Bensour, Thuathe, Chergach, Bassikounou, and even Park Forest, charged substantially less than you are supposedly asking for this fall. As your friend, fellow hunter, and prospective customer, I'd like to know why. Because it looks like you're set to make $25,000 off of this, along with McCartney (another $25,000). Why do I, and other meteorite collectors, owe you that? Regards, Jason On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 2:14 PM, wrote: > Hi All, > > I would have responded earlier but our Internet connection was not the > best. We just flew in from Canada today. What is a fair price per gram? I > would say it is up to the individuals that took the time and effort to get > out in the field to do the recovery work. I knew before leaving home that if > we were lucky enough to find any material that we would have to leave it in > Canada and go through the proper channels to obtain this legally. Most of > the area where the fall took place has been locked up with NO TRESPASSING > signs posted. We were fortunate enough to negotiate a deal with the owners > of some private property. We have been told the chances of any material > leaving Canada with a permit is almost impossible. How nice would it be to > have a new Canadian meteorite from a witnessed fall with proper > documentation? This is my first time to pick up a meteorite as fresh as > this. You can almost rub off the fusion crust and the interior is bright > white. I will have a picture showing the interior of the meteorite posted > within the next couple of days. So lets keep our fingers crossed to have > these meteorites in the U.S.A within 6 months to a year. I was thinking > about playing a joke on Mccartney and placing a meteorite in his backpack to > see if he could make it through customs and once we made it into the U.S.A > telling McCartney "Hey half of the meteorite is mine!" Just teasing. > > > Thanks, > Sonny > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From jgrossman at usgs.gov Sun Dec 7 18:19:25 2008 From: jgrossman at usgs.gov (Jeff Grossman) Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2008 18:19:25 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] NEW Olivine Diogenite - NWA 4223 - AD In-Reply-To: <4830C09A71CA46C5B4112571141D7303@Gregor> References: <4830C09A71CA46C5B4112571141D7303@Gregor> Message-ID: <493C59FD.8010905@usgs.gov> I guess I have to keep saying it, but there ain't no such thing as an "official" classification. NWA 4223 was classified as an "olivine-bearing diogenite" by Connolly et al. (2007: MB92), citing data submitted by Tony Irving and colleagues (who may or may not have classified it exactly the same way when they submitted it to the NomCom). This classification does not imply endorsement by any officials. It only means that the classification was deemed to be reasonable. jeff Greg Hupe wrote: > Dear List Members, > > Last week I announced a new Olivine Diogenite, NWA 4223, that I had > loaded all of the specimens on eBay. The last remaining 13 specimens > will end tomorrow (Monday, December 8th). I also have some nice > meteorites at great prices ending on Wednesday, most started at just > 99 cents. > > Here is my original email: > It is my pleasure to announce a NEW Olivine Diogenite, NWA 4223, the > third > member of this exclusive group. It took me three years to get to this > point > of first public offering so you know the science has been done! It has > a TKW > of just 329 grams and is very course-grained. I managed through eBay's > site, > so you can find all of the available material and "Official" > classification > of NWA 4223 with the "Buy it Now" feature here: > http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault > > In addition to these rare specimens, I have also listed these, most at > reduced prices for the holidays: > NWA 1878 Mesosiderite (Fantastic etch!) > NWA 1879 Mesosiderite > NWA 2932 Mesosiderite > NWA 869 L4-6 1kg Lots > NWA 3118 CV3 100g Lot > NWA 3151 Brachinite Thin Section > NWA 4528 H5 500g Lot > Unclassified 2kg Lots > Berduc Newspaper > Chergach Individual 92.1g (99% crusted) > Chergach Individual 64.1g (100% crusted) > Gao Individual 154g (from Haag Collection) > Glorieta Pallasite Individual 13.7g > Muonionalusta End Cut 76.9g (starts at just 99 cents) > Muonionalusta Complete Slice 262g (started at just 99 cents) > ...and several other started at just 99 cents! > > Good Luck winning , and "Thank You" for bidding! > > Best regards, > Greg > > ==================== > Greg Hupe > The Hupe Collection > NaturesVault (eBay) > gmhupe at htn.net > www.LunarRock.com > IMCA 3163 > ==================== > Click here for my current eBay auctions: > http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703) 648-6184 US Geological Survey fax: (703) 648-6383 954 National Center Reston, VA 20192, USA From wahlperry at aol.com Sun Dec 7 18:41:10 2008 From: wahlperry at aol.com (wahlperry at aol.com) Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2008 18:41:10 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] New Canadian Meteorite for sale In-Reply-To: <93aaac890812071511w6b5db876jc9147a77913d6491@mail.gmail.com> References: <8CB26D03E1FDFFF-15E0-D52@webmail-me11.sysops.aol.com> <93aaac890812071511w6b5db876jc9147a77913d6491@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8CB26DC6AB528AF-15E0-109B@webmail-me11.sysops.aol.com> Geez Jason, You must be on restriction or something! Sonny -----Original Message----- From: Jason Utas To: Meteorite-list Sent: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 3:11 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New Canadian Meteorite for sale Hola, I've heard that you fellows fetched over a kilogram. $50/g isn't a bad price for you to set, considering that you both probably spent less than $1,500 all told for the trip, each. I mean, it's not like you had to deal with any dangers or risk. You left when you knew meteorites had been found, and travelled to a safe, civilized location. I suppose there might have been a risk in not being allowed to search private land, but, honestly...that's not stopped any hunters I know on this list. Anyway, it sounds like nice material. Like every other fresh fall from the past...well, since forever. As to your stating that you "would say it is up to the individuals that took the time and effort to get out in the field to do the recovery work," well, fine. I just wonder why the hunters who went to Kilabo, Bensour, Thuathe, Chergach, Bassikounou, and even Park Forest, charged substantially less than you are supposedly asking for this fall. As your friend, fellow hunter, and prospective customer, I'd like to know why. Because it looks like you're set to make $25,000 off of this, along with McCartney (another $25,000). Why do I, and other meteorite collectors, owe you that? Regards, Jason On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 2:14 PM, wrote: > Hi All, > > I would have responded earlier but our Internet connection was not the > best. We just flew in from Canada today. What is a fair price per gram? I > would say it is up to the individuals that took the time and effort to get > out in the field to do the recovery work. I knew before leaving home that if > we were lucky enough to find any material that we would have to leave it in > Canada and go through the proper channels to obtain this legally. Most of > the area where the fall took place has been locked up with NO TRESPASSING > signs posted. We were fortunate enough to negotiate a deal with the owners > of some private property. We have been told the chances of any material > leaving Canada with a permit is almost impossible. How nice would it be to > have a new Canadian meteorite from a witnessed fall with proper > documentation? This is my first time to pick up a meteorite as fresh as > this. You can almost rub off the fusion crust and the interior is bright > white. I will have a picture showing the interior of the meteorite posted > within the next couple of days. So lets keep our fingers crossed to have > these meteorites in the U.S.A within 6 months to a year. I was thinking > about playing a joke on Mccartney and placing a meteorite in his backpack to > see if he could make it through customs and once we made it into the U.S.A > telling McCartney "Hey half of the meteorite is mine!" Just teasing. > > > Thanks, > Sonny > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoritekid at gmail.com Sun Dec 7 18:51:35 2008 From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 15:51:35 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] New Canadian Meteorite for sale In-Reply-To: <8CB26DC6AB528AF-15E0-109B@webmail-me11.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CB26D03E1FDFFF-15E0-D52@webmail-me11.sysops.aol.com> <93aaac890812071511w6b5db876jc9147a77913d6491@mail.gmail.com> <8CB26DC6AB528AF-15E0-109B@webmail-me11.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <93aaac890812071551q716f2d2dh97ba852ff640eeb7@mail.gmail.com> ...And what's that supposed to mean? On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 3:41 PM, wrote: > Geez Jason, > > You must be on restriction or something! > > Sonny > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jason Utas > To: Meteorite-list > Sent: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 3:11 pm > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New Canadian Meteorite for sale > > > > > > > Hola, > I've heard that you fellows fetched over a kilogram. > $50/g isn't a bad price for you to set, considering that you both > probably spent less than $1,500 all told for the trip, each. > I mean, it's not like you had to deal with any dangers or risk. You > left when you knew meteorites had been found, and travelled to a safe, > civilized location. I suppose there might have been a risk in not > being allowed to search private land, but, honestly...that's not > stopped any hunters I know on this list. > Anyway, it sounds like nice material. Like every other fresh fall > from the past...well, since forever. > As to your stating that you "would say it is up to the individuals > that took the time and effort to get out in the field to do the > recovery work," well, fine. I just wonder why the hunters who went to > Kilabo, Bensour, Thuathe, Chergach, Bassikounou, and even Park Forest, > charged substantially less than you are supposedly asking for this > fall. > As your friend, fellow hunter, and prospective customer, I'd like to > know why. Because it looks like you're set to make $25,000 off of > this, along with McCartney (another $25,000). Why do I, and other > meteorite collectors, owe you that? > Regards, > Jason > > On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 2:14 PM, wrote: >> >> Hi All, >> >> I would have responded earlier but our Internet connection was not > > the >> >> best. We just flew in from Canada today. What is a fair price per > > gram? I >> >> would say it is up to the individuals that took the time and effort > > to get >> >> out in the field to do the recovery work. I knew before leaving home > > that if >> >> we were lucky enough to find any material that we would have to leave > > it in >> >> Canada and go through the proper channels to obtain this legally. > > Most of >> >> the area where the fall took place has been locked up with NO > > TRESPASSING >> >> signs posted. We were fortunate enough to negotiate a deal with the > > owners >> >> of some private property. We have been told the chances of any > > material >> >> leaving Canada with a permit is almost impossible. How nice would it > > be to >> >> have a new Canadian meteorite from a witnessed fall with proper >> documentation? This is my first time to pick up a meteorite as fresh > > as >> >> this. You can almost rub off the fusion crust and the interior is > > bright >> >> white. I will have a picture showing the interior of the meteorite > > posted >> >> within the next couple of days. So lets keep our fingers crossed to > > have >> >> these meteorites in the U.S.A within 6 months to a year. I was > > thinking >> >> about playing a joke on Mccartney and placing a meteorite in his > > backpack to >> >> see if he could make it through customs and once we made it into the > > U.S.A >> >> telling McCartney "Hey half of the meteorite is mine!" Just teasing. >> >> >> Thanks, >> Sonny >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > From yellowengine at earthlink.net Sun Dec 7 18:54:29 2008 From: yellowengine at earthlink.net (RJP) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 17:54:29 -0600 (GMT-06:00) Subject: [meteorite-list] New Canadian Meteorite for sale Message-ID: <19084620.1228694069826.JavaMail.root@mswamui-swiss.atl.sa.earthlink.net> OK, I understand that everyone is welcome to discuss freely on this list, but for the love of god people.. enough is enough. We won't see anything (legal) from this fall here in the U.S. for a good 6 months, atleast. When (and if) those guys get permits to export the material they found, I am sure they are quite capable of photographing, cataloging, and determining fair prices for their loot based off of the expenses they incured as a result of the trip, pysical labor.. plus room for profit (well deserved). Ryan -----Original Message----- From: Jason Utas To: Meteorite-list Sent: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 3:11 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New Canadian Meteorite for sale Hola, I've heard that you fellows fetched over a kilogram. $50/g isn't a bad price for you to set, considering that you both probably spent less than $1,500 all told for the trip, each. I mean, it's not like you had to deal with any dangers or risk. You left when you knew meteorites had been found, and travelled to a safe, civilized location. I suppose there might have been a risk in not being allowed to search private land, but, honestly...that's not stopped any hunters I know on this list. Anyway, it sounds like nice material. Like every other fresh fall from the past...well, since forever. As to your stating that you "would say it is up to the individuals that took the time and effort to get out in the field to do the recovery work," well, fine. I just wonder why the hunters who went to Kilabo, Bensour, Thuathe, Chergach, Bassikounou, and even Park Forest, charged substantially less than you are supposedly asking for this fall. As your friend, fellow hunter, and prospective customer, I'd like to know why. Because it looks like you're set to make $25,000 off of this, along with McCartney (another $25,000). Why do I, and other meteorite collectors, owe you that? Regards, Jason On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 2:14 PM, wrote: > Hi All, > > I would have responded earlier but our Internet connection was not the > best. We just flew in from Canada today. What is a fair price per gram? I > would say it is up to the individuals that took the time and effort to get > out in the field to do the recovery work. I knew before leaving home that if > we were lucky enough to find any material that we would have to leave it in > Canada and go through the proper channels to obtain this legally. Most of > the area where the fall took place has been locked up with NO TRESPASSING > signs posted. We were fortunate enough to negotiate a deal with the owners > of some private property. We have been told the chances of any material > leaving Canada with a permit is almost impossible. How nice would it be to > have a new Canadian meteorite from a witnessed fall with proper > documentation? This is my first time to pick up a meteorite as fresh as > this. You can almost rub off the fusion crust and the interior is bright > white. I will have a picture showing the interior of the meteorite posted > within the next couple of days. So lets keep our fingers crossed to have > these meteorites in the U.S.A within 6 months to a year. I was thinking > about playing a joke on Mccartney and placing a meteorite in his backpack to > see if he could make it through customs and once we made it into the U.S.A > telling McCartney "Hey half of the meteorite is mine!" Just teasing. > > > Thanks, > Sonny > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Sun Dec 7 19:04:47 2008 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 01:04:47 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale In-Reply-To: <93aaac890812071457i56165f5ev76ee01115802bbce@mail.gmail.com> References: <907F937D1D8A4B4CA3651D01AA9C11A5@JeffPC><93aaac890812070034k44cd6a42r24ca1d521628dd31@mail.gmail.com><44DF8989-38A8-4849-98CE-DCD16EAF5E45@dof3.com><93aaac890812070802o77b7e335n3de3c8f6e456348e@mail.gmail.com><8AEC260D-E7F6-486F-B4D6-FCF939359569@dof3.com> <93aaac890812071457i56165f5ev76ee01115802bbce@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <00a601c958c8$96206a20$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> I had a dream, Jason. Meteorites were free for everyone! ...but nobody was going to look for them anymore.... I'm only not sure yet, whether it was a good dream or a nightmare. -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Jason Utas Gesendet: Sonntag, 7. Dezember 2008 23:58 An: Meteorite-list Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale Darryl, Darren, All, You referred to the low prices mentioned in my email when I had included Park Forest. If you didn't mention Park Forest, you didn't refer to my email in its entirety, and didn't clarify. How was I supposed to know you were only responding to half of my message? > As it regards the Chergach and Bassikounou examples, I sincerely believe > that irrespective of how inexpensive initial suppliers sell material, that > it is incumbent on us to consider the implications of our pricing in the > marketplace. So we should place some sort of value on meteorites above what the finders ask for them because....well, I can see why you as a dealer would say this -- but from a collectors point of view, your statement makes no sense whatsoever. Or from a logical standpoint. Why should rocks have some inherent monetary value? It makes no sense whatsoever. That said, if you, as a dealer/supplier decide that they should have some arbitrary value, and price what you sell accordingly...well, the final decision rests in my hands, as the buyer. You can ask for whatever you think they're worth, but unless the collectors on the other side agree with you, it doesn't matter. Dealers only have the ability to suggest prices. It's the collectors/buyers who actually set them. > I take a longer view of such anomalies. Just because I was offered Chergach > at $0.50/g doesn't mean that it's responsible for me to widely offer it for > $1.50/g even though it represents a 200% profit to me. Responsible? I'd say your fellow collectors would be happy, and content with the fact that they could afford specimens twice as large at the same cost as the ones they just bought. In fact, anyone reading this thread should now know that if they bought any from you, the reason they don't own a specimen twice as large is because you thought it would be irresponsible to only take a 200% mark-up. I'd be pissed-off, big time. >Whether we can > quantify the effect or not, beyond cheap meteorites have an effect on the > rest of the marketplace. They create their own "gravity." That's all I'm > trying to say. Oh, I never said it wouldn't have an effect on the rest of the market. Though now that you're bringing that up, you seem to be saying that having lower prices would be a bad thing. Considering that most people in the meteorite-world are collectors, and not dealers, well, you're in a minority. By all means, you're entitled to your view, but you are in a minority. As to whether or not it's worth, say, $10/g or more...you're entitled to your opinion as a dealer, and I'm sure that if you get your hands on some, you'll charge what you like. As said, I, as a potential buyer, will simply refrain from buying any and voice my opinion that way...as I'm sure others will as well. I've heard reports that the tkw could be well over 200kg or more; if, after a mere week of amateur hunting in sub-zero temperatures and restricted access, 40+kg were recovered...how much of any fall is ever collected in the first week? Maybe 10%? Maybe 20? - Sorry for the lateish reply, but I was at the Bonhams Auction. Jason From raremeteorites at yahoo.com Sun Dec 7 19:05:28 2008 From: raremeteorites at yahoo.com (Adam Hupe) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 16:05:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] NEW Olivine Diogenite - NWA 4223 - AD In-Reply-To: <493C59FD.8010905@usgs.gov> Message-ID: <612748.85372.qm@web30703.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dear List, I guess the terms "approved" and listed in the "Meteoritical Bulletin" might be more accurate. For collecting purposes, buyers consider approved stones to be official. This peer-reviewed system is certainly better than self-pairing or not having the stones studied at all. Best Regards, Adam From darryl at dof3.com Sun Dec 7 19:08:28 2008 From: darryl at dof3.com (Darryl Pitt) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 19:08:28 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale In-Reply-To: <93aaac890812071457i56165f5ev76ee01115802bbce@mail.gmail.com> References: <907F937D1D8A4B4CA3651D01AA9C11A5@JeffPC> <93aaac890812070034k44cd6a42r24ca1d521628dd31@mail.gmail.com> <44DF8989-38A8-4849-98CE-DCD16EAF5E45@dof3.com> <93aaac890812070802o77b7e335n3de3c8f6e456348e@mail.gmail.com> <8AEC260D-E7F6-486F-B4D6-FCF939359569@dof3.com> <93aaac890812071457i56165f5ev76ee01115802bbce@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6B36D55A-9F85-4A76-99F9-0FE9713F58EC@dof3.com> Yeah Jason, I didn't refer to your email in its entirely---a tall order given the length of such rants. Nor was I wasn't responding to "your message" as there were other contributors to the thread, and my statement kind of stood on its own as a general review of the currents in valuation. Jeez. For the record, Mike Farmer's report of Udei Station having sold for just $2/gram at Bonhams today..... ...that's right. My consignment. Competitively priced. Collectors are not hurt by a shake-out of the outliers---those mega- low and mega-high anomalies--I actually believe we would all ultimately benefit. Sincerely / Darryl On Dec 7, 2008, at 5:57 PM, Jason Utas wrote: > Darryl, Darren, All, > > You referred to the low prices mentioned in my email when I had > included Park Forest. If you didn't mention Park Forest, you didn't > refer to my email in its entirety, and didn't clarify. How was I > supposed to know you were only responding to half of my message? > >> As it regards the Chergach and Bassikounou examples, I sincerely >> believe >> that irrespective of how inexpensive initial suppliers sell >> material, that >> it is incumbent on us to consider the implications of our pricing >> in the >> marketplace. > > So we should place some sort of value on meteorites above what the > finders ask for them because....well, I can see why you as a dealer > would say this -- but from a collectors point of view, your statement > makes no sense whatsoever. Or from a logical standpoint. Why should > rocks have some inherent monetary value? It makes no sense > whatsoever. > That said, if you, as a dealer/supplier decide that they should have > some arbitrary value, and price what you sell accordingly...well, the > final decision rests in my hands, as the buyer. You can ask for > whatever you think they're worth, but unless the collectors on the > other side agree with you, it doesn't matter. Dealers only have the > ability to suggest prices. It's the collectors/buyers who actually > set them. > >> I take a longer view of such anomalies. Just because I was offered >> Chergach >> at $0.50/g doesn't mean that it's responsible for me to widely >> offer it for >> $1.50/g even though it represents a 200% profit to me. > > Responsible? I'd say your fellow collectors would be happy, and > content with the fact that they could afford specimens twice as large > at the same cost as the ones they just bought. > > In fact, anyone reading this thread should now know that if they > bought any from you, the reason they don't own a specimen twice as > large is because you thought it would be irresponsible to only take a > 200% mark-up. > > I'd be pissed-off, big time. > >> Whether we can >> quantify the effect or not, beyond cheap meteorites have an effect >> on the >> rest of the marketplace. They create their own "gravity." That's >> all I'm >> trying to say. > > Oh, I never said it wouldn't have an effect on the rest of the market. > Though now that you're bringing that up, you seem to be saying that > having lower prices would be a bad thing. Considering that most > people in the meteorite-world are collectors, and not dealers, well, > you're in a minority. By all means, you're entitled to your view, but > you are in a minority. > > As to whether or not it's worth, say, $10/g or more...you're entitled > to your opinion as a dealer, and I'm sure that if you get your hands > on some, you'll charge what you like. As said, I, as a potential > buyer, will simply refrain from buying any and voice my opinion that > way...as I'm sure others will as well. I've heard reports that the > tkw could be well over 200kg or more; if, after a mere week of amateur > hunting in sub-zero temperatures and restricted access, 40+kg were > recovered...how much of any fall is ever collected in the first week? > Maybe 10%? Maybe 20? > > - Sorry for the lateish reply, but I was at the Bonhams Auction. > > Jason > > On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 9:26 AM, Darryl Pitt wrote: >> >> >> Jason, >> >> Small detail....I never mentioned Park Forest. And speaking of >> being "at a >> loss for words," I don't quite know how to respond to your >> unbridled attack >> on "my" point of view regarding the same(?!) >> >> As it regards the Chergach and Bassikounou examples, I sincerely >> believe >> that irrespective of how inexpensive initial suppliers sell >> material, that >> it is incumbent on us to consider the implications of our pricing >> in the >> marketplace. >> >> I take a longer view of such anomalies. Just because I was offered >> Chergach >> at $0.50/g doesn't mean that it's responsible for me to widely >> offer it for >> $1.50/g even though it represents a 200% profit to me. Whether we >> can >> quantify the effect or not, beyond cheap meteorites have an effect >> on the >> rest of the marketplace. They create their own "gravity." That's >> all I'm >> trying to say. >> >> All best / Darryl >> >> >> >> >> On Dec 7, 2008, at 11:02 AM, Jason Utas wrote: >> >>> Darryl, >>> Low-end numbers? Even Park Forest which was witnessed, caught on >>> numerous videos, and fell in a densely populated urban environment - >>> in what may well be a majority of cases, hitting man-made objects, >>> was >>> selling for $30/g or so at the time of the fall - a price which has >>> stayed roughly the same, if it hasn't come down a few dollars per >>> gram >>> since then. >>> How much Park Forest was recovered? According to this report, >>> roughly >>> 30kg. >>> >>> http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu/Aug04/ParkForest.html >>> >>> More of this fall has been recovered in the past week than from the >>> entire fall of Park Forest. >>> It hasn't hit anything interesting, as far as we know. >>> It's an ordinary chondrite - even Park Forest had some pretty >>> brecciation/melt. I've heard of nothing of the sort from this fall. >>> It was caught on video, granted, and that does make it special in >>> one >>> way...why you think that should boost the value of it to twice the >>> value of the undoubtedly more interesting Park Forest, also caught >>> on >>> video (and five or ten times the price of other comparable falls), I >>> honestly...I'm at a lack for words. >>> >>> "Low-end numbers being bandied about?" >>> >>> On the one hand, you seem to criticize the high price being asked by >>> these sellers, and on the other, you say the current market rates >>> for >>> other falls are "low-end numbers?" >>> >>> I don't understand. $5-10/g for these new falls is far >>> overpriced, as >>> best I can tell. At least with Chergach and Bassikounou, suppliers >>> were contacting list-members directly and offering stones at $2/g >>> initially - less for larger stones. >>> >>> You seem to be saying that's too cheap. Why? If the sellers are >>> content, and I don't think the buyers are complaining, well, I can't >>> see any reason for you to say such a thing. If both parties are >>> happy, I honestly don't see how you can say such a thing. >>> >>> Look at the numbers from my last email. A mere $10/g would provide >>> the hunters each with $5,000, assuming they only came back with 250g >>> each. >>> >>> It's classic marketing technique to tell potential buyers that they >>> got precious little out of the fall, as they said they did. >>> If people think there's less, they'll want to buy more. There's a >>> reason they're not telling anyone how much they got, after all. I >>> wonder why...and I wonder if they ever will tell us how much they >>> found/were allowed to keep.... After all, unless they're just using >>> that as a marketing ploy, they really have no reason not to tell us. >>> >>> Jason >>> >>> On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 7:38 AM, Darryl Pitt wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Folks, >>>> >>>> If I've said it once I've said it a thousand times: meteorites >>>> as a >>>> collectible do not attract more serious collectors because there >>>> are too >>>> many aberrations of valuation--such that the aberrations have >>>> become the >>>> norm. Several serious collectors who have been intrigued with >>>> meteorites >>>> have shared with me that they've opted not to climb in because of >>>> their >>>> belief in an "immature" and "unsophisticated" marketplace. Their >>>> words. >>>> >>>> In my humble opinion, the quality of the fireball video >>>> associated with >>>> the >>>> Canadian event makes it worth far more than the low-end numbers >>>> being >>>> bandied about. >>>> >>>> Everything else being the same, no witnessed fall should ever >>>> sell for a >>>> couple of bucks a gram, and we should all strive to make certain >>>> this >>>> doesn't occur. >>>> >>>> All best / d >>>> >>>> >>>> ===================== >>>> >> > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoritekid at gmail.com Sun Dec 7 19:17:18 2008 From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 16:17:18 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] Bonhams Auction Results Message-ID: <93aaac890812071617n7c59b075v9873f350772a5868@mail.gmail.com> Hello All, I read through the legal print in the front of the catalog, and it looks like it's ok to post the results publicly. 1086 - 315g Gibeon Sphere - $475 1087 - 140g Gibeon Egg - $190 1088 - 490g Gibeon Slice - $375 1089 - 321g Gibeon Slice - Pass 1090 - 2 Gibeon Slices (281 + 262g) - $325 1091 - Gibeon Part-Slice $475 1092 - 552g Gibeon Slice - $400 1093 - 2.6kg Gibeon Cut Block - $1,700 1094 - 7,150g Gibeon Slice - $3.250 - Pass 1095 - 1,361g Muonionalusta End - $500 1096 - 136g Chinga Slice - $120 1097 - 494g Seymchan Slice - $425 1098 - 121g Udei Station End - $200 (!) 1099 - 276g New NWA Iron (silicated) slice - $600 1100 - "7lb" Sikhote Shrapnel - listed as "oriented" - $1,500 1101 - 1,304g Sikhote Individual - $2,900 (!) 1102 - 8kg Corroded Sikhote (*no* remaining fusion crust) - $6,500 - Pass 1103 - 334g Fukang Part-Slice (shattered crystals) - $3,750 1104 - 520g Esquel Part-Slice - $12,000 1105 - Pair of Campo Ends (206g and 430g, one silicated) - ~$400 - Pass (Passed at $400 for 600g of Campo....right)\ 1106 - 1,886g Campo Indiv (nice) - $300 1107 - 3,146g Canyon Diablo (fairly nondescript) - $1,300 1108 - 42.5lb Campo (good shape, no glypts - corroded) - missed price 1109 - 1,220 lb butt-ugly Campo - $19,000 1110 - 127 lb Canyon Diablo - Special Note This iron looks great in the auction photo. It's not. The back of it was...ruined somehow. It looks like the owner sandblasted the back down to a quasi-3D widmanstatten surface, and then coated it in some sort of plastic/sealant that tinged it all (only the backside, but the entire backside) a nasty light-green hue, and gave it a smooth, shiny, plastic-ey look and feel. I don't know what the hell s/he did to it, but we decided ahead of time that we didn't want it, no matter the cost. That said - $18,000 1111 - 385g Slice of NWA 1941 L6 (the "blue" one Michael Farmer's been selling) - $950 (!) 1112 - 34mm diameter NWA XXX Sphere (no weight given, listed as NWA 869, but not NWA 869) - $350 1113 - 1,994g NWA XXX Sphere (4in diameter, again listed as NWA 869, but a different meteorite) - $1,800 1114 - 2.0g Murchison frag, no crust - $400 (!) 1115 - Arroyo Malo 75.1g - $500 (slightly less than $50/g) 1116 - Arroyo Malo 202.5g - $850 (again, somewhat less than $50/g) 1117 - Libyan Glass Pair (183g light + 77g dark) - missed the number, at least $400 1118 - 1,451g Libyan Glass (numerous large chips) - $1,400 1119 - Collection of Six Lunar and Martian Meteorites - 0.05g to 0.054g in weight - $1,800 (...I estimate its value, based on the specimens, their weights, and current market prices, at no more than $300) 1120 - Set of Five Medals w/ Meteorites (Campo/869/482/2995/2986) - $275 1121 - 1.85g DaG 476 Slice - $950 1122 - 2.718g NWA 4880 Sherg. Indiv. (broken) - $4,500 (!) 1123 - 5.85g of LA002 - $9,000 (!) 1124 - 90.5g Shergottite Indiv - Special Note This stone had a chip not pictured - just above and to the left of what would be visible in the photographs posted in the auction.It was a fresh chip - looked as though a curious nomad had knocked the corner (unfortunately the leading edge) off of it. Go figure. My only question regarding the stone was that the edge of the chip was painted black. It was definitely some sort of paint; not only was it less glossy and darker in colour than the rest of the stone, but...it rubbed off. The only possible explanation we could come up with was that it had been put on the stone so as to hide the edge of the chip in the auction photograph. It is visible in the photograph just to the left of the top of the stone as a thin edge of grey of a different hue (slightly) than the rest of the stone, running about half-way down that top-left side. It looks like a result of the lighting in the photo, but it's definitely not that... Very odd. - $30,000 - Pass 1125 - 1.3308g Dhofar 1428 Slice (Feldspathic IMB) - $1,600 1126 - 1.0064g DaG 400 Part-Slice (Anorthositic Breccia) - $1,400 So...nothing -too- surprising. The low end was the Udei, at $1.67/g, and the high-end, well - a good few things. The bidders who went over market tended not to be meteorite enthusiasts; I heard a phone-bidder assuring her client that the $950 purchase of the $385g slice of NWA 1941 (L6) was a "very good deal." Granted, it was a nice slice, but if you take the 20% commission and 8% tax into account for it (and all other items), well...that Sikhote was nothing special, and it cost the buyer close to $4/g... It looked like the buyers generally went with what looked flashier or more interesting. The Murchison was listed as a piece of a comet, and the NWA 1941 was listed as the "Blue Galaxy Meteorite" - something like that. The better the listing made things sound, the more they fetched. Something like Udei, which looked particularly bad in their case, which, in all fairness, didn't have adequate lighting for such a specimen, attracted little-to-no attention from...anyone. Regards, Jason From meteoritekid at gmail.com Sun Dec 7 19:29:18 2008 From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 16:29:18 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale In-Reply-To: <6B36D55A-9F85-4A76-99F9-0FE9713F58EC@dof3.com> References: <907F937D1D8A4B4CA3651D01AA9C11A5@JeffPC> <93aaac890812070034k44cd6a42r24ca1d521628dd31@mail.gmail.com> <44DF8989-38A8-4849-98CE-DCD16EAF5E45@dof3.com> <93aaac890812070802o77b7e335n3de3c8f6e456348e@mail.gmail.com> <8AEC260D-E7F6-486F-B4D6-FCF939359569@dof3.com> <93aaac890812071457i56165f5ev76ee01115802bbce@mail.gmail.com> <6B36D55A-9F85-4A76-99F9-0FE9713F58EC@dof3.com> Message-ID: <93aaac890812071629j24577be4m2d646f2b0a318b8d@mail.gmail.com> Darryl, Rants? At least I give you the courtesy of addressing everything you say. When one decides to...skip....parts of a message he (or she) is attempting to refute, it simply gives the impression that there are things they would prefer not to have to (or can't) debate, probably because it wouldn't support their claims. As far as I'm concerned, if you can't deal with a single page of text, it's your problem, not mine. With regards to your statement, no, not really. You referred to "low-end numbers being bandied about," without acknowledging my high estimate for Park Forest. Which would have rendered your entire message a moot point, had you taken it into account. You were referring directly to my post. Hardly "standing alone." You might also note that your message was a direct reply to me, as well as to the meteorite-list. I know; I was there. The estimate was $500-700, but it wouldn't fetch an initial price of....I forget the price at which it was initially started. The auctioneer let it down to $200. Then $190. The final price was $200 - a mere $1.67/g. Jason On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 4:08 PM, Darryl Pitt wrote: > > > Yeah Jason, I didn't refer to your email in its entirely---a tall order > given the length of such rants. Nor was I wasn't responding to "your > message" as there were other contributors to the thread, and my statement > kind of stood on its own as a general review of the currents in valuation. > Jeez. > > For the record, Mike Farmer's report of Udei Station having sold for just > $2/gram at Bonhams today..... > > ...that's right. My consignment. Competitively priced. > > Collectors are not hurt by a shake-out of the outliers---those mega-low and > mega-high anomalies--I actually believe we would all ultimately benefit. > > > Sincerely / Darryl > > > > > On Dec 7, 2008, at 5:57 PM, Jason Utas wrote: > >> Darryl, Darren, All, >> >> You referred to the low prices mentioned in my email when I had >> included Park Forest. If you didn't mention Park Forest, you didn't >> refer to my email in its entirety, and didn't clarify. How was I >> supposed to know you were only responding to half of my message? >> >>> As it regards the Chergach and Bassikounou examples, I sincerely believe >>> that irrespective of how inexpensive initial suppliers sell material, >>> that >>> it is incumbent on us to consider the implications of our pricing in the >>> marketplace. >> >> So we should place some sort of value on meteorites above what the >> finders ask for them because....well, I can see why you as a dealer >> would say this -- but from a collectors point of view, your statement >> makes no sense whatsoever. Or from a logical standpoint. Why should >> rocks have some inherent monetary value? It makes no sense >> whatsoever. >> That said, if you, as a dealer/supplier decide that they should have >> some arbitrary value, and price what you sell accordingly...well, the >> final decision rests in my hands, as the buyer. You can ask for >> whatever you think they're worth, but unless the collectors on the >> other side agree with you, it doesn't matter. Dealers only have the >> ability to suggest prices. It's the collectors/buyers who actually >> set them. >> >>> I take a longer view of such anomalies. Just because I was offered >>> Chergach >>> at $0.50/g doesn't mean that it's responsible for me to widely offer it >>> for >>> $1.50/g even though it represents a 200% profit to me. >> >> Responsible? I'd say your fellow collectors would be happy, and >> content with the fact that they could afford specimens twice as large >> at the same cost as the ones they just bought. >> >> In fact, anyone reading this thread should now know that if they >> bought any from you, the reason they don't own a specimen twice as >> large is because you thought it would be irresponsible to only take a >> 200% mark-up. >> >> I'd be pissed-off, big time. >> >>> Whether we can >>> quantify the effect or not, beyond cheap meteorites have an effect on the >>> rest of the marketplace. They create their own "gravity." That's all >>> I'm >>> trying to say. >> >> Oh, I never said it wouldn't have an effect on the rest of the market. >> Though now that you're bringing that up, you seem to be saying that >> having lower prices would be a bad thing. Considering that most >> people in the meteorite-world are collectors, and not dealers, well, >> you're in a minority. By all means, you're entitled to your view, but >> you are in a minority. >> >> As to whether or not it's worth, say, $10/g or more...you're entitled >> to your opinion as a dealer, and I'm sure that if you get your hands >> on some, you'll charge what you like. As said, I, as a potential >> buyer, will simply refrain from buying any and voice my opinion that >> way...as I'm sure others will as well. I've heard reports that the >> tkw could be well over 200kg or more; if, after a mere week of amateur >> hunting in sub-zero temperatures and restricted access, 40+kg were >> recovered...how much of any fall is ever collected in the first week? >> Maybe 10%? Maybe 20? >> >> - Sorry for the lateish reply, but I was at the Bonhams Auction. >> >> Jason >> >> On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 9:26 AM, Darryl Pitt wrote: >>> >>> >>> Jason, >>> >>> Small detail....I never mentioned Park Forest. And speaking of being >>> "at a >>> loss for words," I don't quite know how to respond to your unbridled >>> attack >>> on "my" point of view regarding the same(?!) >>> >>> As it regards the Chergach and Bassikounou examples, I sincerely believe >>> that irrespective of how inexpensive initial suppliers sell material, >>> that >>> it is incumbent on us to consider the implications of our pricing in the >>> marketplace. >>> >>> I take a longer view of such anomalies. Just because I was offered >>> Chergach >>> at $0.50/g doesn't mean that it's responsible for me to widely offer it >>> for >>> $1.50/g even though it represents a 200% profit to me. Whether we can >>> quantify the effect or not, beyond cheap meteorites have an effect on the >>> rest of the marketplace. They create their own "gravity." That's all >>> I'm >>> trying to say. >>> >>> All best / Darryl >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Dec 7, 2008, at 11:02 AM, Jason Utas wrote: >>> >>>> Darryl, >>>> Low-end numbers? Even Park Forest which was witnessed, caught on >>>> numerous videos, and fell in a densely populated urban environment - >>>> in what may well be a majority of cases, hitting man-made objects, was >>>> selling for $30/g or so at the time of the fall - a price which has >>>> stayed roughly the same, if it hasn't come down a few dollars per gram >>>> since then. >>>> How much Park Forest was recovered? According to this report, roughly >>>> 30kg. >>>> >>>> http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu/Aug04/ParkForest.html >>>> >>>> More of this fall has been recovered in the past week than from the >>>> entire fall of Park Forest. >>>> It hasn't hit anything interesting, as far as we know. >>>> It's an ordinary chondrite - even Park Forest had some pretty >>>> brecciation/melt. I've heard of nothing of the sort from this fall. >>>> It was caught on video, granted, and that does make it special in one >>>> way...why you think that should boost the value of it to twice the >>>> value of the undoubtedly more interesting Park Forest, also caught on >>>> video (and five or ten times the price of other comparable falls), I >>>> honestly...I'm at a lack for words. >>>> >>>> "Low-end numbers being bandied about?" >>>> >>>> On the one hand, you seem to criticize the high price being asked by >>>> these sellers, and on the other, you say the current market rates for >>>> other falls are "low-end numbers?" >>>> >>>> I don't understand. $5-10/g for these new falls is far overpriced, as >>>> best I can tell. At least with Chergach and Bassikounou, suppliers >>>> were contacting list-members directly and offering stones at $2/g >>>> initially - less for larger stones. >>>> >>>> You seem to be saying that's too cheap. Why? If the sellers are >>>> content, and I don't think the buyers are complaining, well, I can't >>>> see any reason for you to say such a thing. If both parties are >>>> happy, I honestly don't see how you can say such a thing. >>>> >>>> Look at the numbers from my last email. A mere $10/g would provide >>>> the hunters each with $5,000, assuming they only came back with 250g >>>> each. >>>> >>>> It's classic marketing technique to tell potential buyers that they >>>> got precious little out of the fall, as they said they did. >>>> If people think there's less, they'll want to buy more. There's a >>>> reason they're not telling anyone how much they got, after all. I >>>> wonder why...and I wonder if they ever will tell us how much they >>>> found/were allowed to keep.... After all, unless they're just using >>>> that as a marketing ploy, they really have no reason not to tell us. >>>> >>>> Jason >>>> >>>> On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 7:38 AM, Darryl Pitt wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Folks, >>>>> >>>>> If I've said it once I've said it a thousand times: meteorites as a >>>>> collectible do not attract more serious collectors because there are >>>>> too >>>>> many aberrations of valuation--such that the aberrations have become >>>>> the >>>>> norm. Several serious collectors who have been intrigued with >>>>> meteorites >>>>> have shared with me that they've opted not to climb in because of their >>>>> belief in an "immature" and "unsophisticated" marketplace. Their >>>>> words. >>>>> >>>>> In my humble opinion, the quality of the fireball video associated with >>>>> the >>>>> Canadian event makes it worth far more than the low-end numbers being >>>>> bandied about. >>>>> >>>>> Everything else being the same, no witnessed fall should ever sell for >>>>> a >>>>> couple of bucks a gram, and we should all strive to make certain this >>>>> doesn't occur. >>>>> >>>>> All best / d >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ===================== >>>>> >>> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From jgrossman at usgs.gov Sun Dec 7 19:43:48 2008 From: jgrossman at usgs.gov (Jeff Grossman) Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2008 19:43:48 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] NEW Olivine Diogenite - NWA 4223 - AD In-Reply-To: <612748.85372.qm@web30703.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <612748.85372.qm@web30703.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <493C6DC4.2010108@usgs.gov> A meteorite in the Bulletin IS "officially approved," which means its name and status as a real meteorite are formally recognized by the Meteoritical Society. It also means the meteorite has been classified and that a type specimen exists. It also means the classification that was done seems reasonable and authoritative to the committee. However, there is no certification or sanctioning of the classification. In other words, the Meteoritical Society does not in any way certify that Irving's classification is the correct or best one. Approval only implies that he was qualified to classify it and that the classification looked reasonable. Jeff Adam Hupe wrote: > Dear List, > > I guess the terms "approved" and listed in the "Meteoritical Bulletin" might be more accurate. For collecting purposes, buyers consider approved stones to be official. This peer-reviewed system is certainly better than self-pairing or not having the stones studied at all. > > Best Regards, > > Adam > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > -- Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703) 648-6184 US Geological Survey fax: (703) 648-6383 954 National Center Reston, VA 20192, USA From gmhupe at htn.net Sun Dec 7 19:51:35 2008 From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 19:51:35 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] NEW Olivine Diogenite - NWA 4223 - AD References: <612748.85372.qm@web30703.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <493C6DC4.2010108@usgs.gov> Message-ID: Hello Jeff, Thank you for the clarification. If I read correctly, I should be stating "Officially Approved classification submitted in the Meteoritical Bulletin"? My main point was that the science was done on NWA 4223, and that it is an approved classification. So, if anyone is interested in a great meteorite, NWA 4223 may be the one! Best regards, Greg ==================== Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmhupe at htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 ==================== Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Grossman" To: Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 7:43 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NEW Olivine Diogenite - NWA 4223 - AD >A meteorite in the Bulletin IS "officially approved," which means its name >and status as a real meteorite are formally recognized by the Meteoritical >Society. It also means the meteorite has been classified and that a type >specimen exists. It also means the classification that was done seems >reasonable and authoritative to the committee. However, there is no >certification or sanctioning of the classification. > > In other words, the Meteoritical Society does not in any way certify that > Irving's classification is the correct or best one. Approval only implies > that he was qualified to classify it and that the classification looked > reasonable. > > Jeff > > Adam Hupe wrote: >> Dear List, >> >> I guess the terms "approved" and listed in the "Meteoritical Bulletin" >> might be more accurate. For collecting purposes, buyers consider approved >> stones to be official. This peer-reviewed system is certainly better than >> self-pairing or not having the stones studied at all. >> >> Best Regards, >> >> Adam >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> > > > -- > Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703) 648-6184 > US Geological Survey fax: (703) 648-6383 > 954 National Center > Reston, VA 20192, USA > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From mail at mhmeteorites.com Sun Dec 7 19:49:59 2008 From: mail at mhmeteorites.com (mail at mhmeteorites.com) Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 00:49:59 +0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] Bonhams Auction Results In-Reply-To: <93aaac890812071617n7c59b075v9873f350772a5868@mail.gmail.com> References: <93aaac890812071617n7c59b075v9873f350772a5868@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <529246338-1228697597-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-224959700-@bxe202.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> OMG - should have bid. Do these include the buyers premium? Matt Matt Morgan Mile High Meteorites http://www.mhmeteorites.com P.O. Box 151293 Lakewood, CO 80215 USA -----Original Message----- From: "Jason Utas" Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 16:17:18 To: Meteorite-list Subject: [meteorite-list] Bonhams Auction Results Hello All, I read through the legal print in the front of the catalog, and it looks like it's ok to post the results publicly. 1086 - 315g Gibeon Sphere - $475 1087 - 140g Gibeon Egg - $190 1088 - 490g Gibeon Slice - $375 1089 - 321g Gibeon Slice - Pass 1090 - 2 Gibeon Slices (281 + 262g) - $325 1091 - Gibeon Part-Slice $475 1092 - 552g Gibeon Slice - $400 1093 - 2.6kg Gibeon Cut Block - $1,700 1094 - 7,150g Gibeon Slice - $3.250 - Pass 1095 - 1,361g Muonionalusta End - $500 1096 - 136g Chinga Slice - $120 1097 - 494g Seymchan Slice - $425 1098 - 121g Udei Station End - $200 (!) 1099 - 276g New NWA Iron (silicated) slice - $600 1100 - "7lb" Sikhote Shrapnel - listed as "oriented" - $1,500 1101 - 1,304g Sikhote Individual - $2,900 (!) 1102 - 8kg Corroded Sikhote (*no* remaining fusion crust) - $6,500 - Pass 1103 - 334g Fukang Part-Slice (shattered crystals) - $3,750 1104 - 520g Esquel Part-Slice - $12,000 1105 - Pair of Campo Ends (206g and 430g, one silicated) - ~$400 - Pass (Passed at $400 for 600g of Campo....right)\ 1106 - 1,886g Campo Indiv (nice) - $300 1107 - 3,146g Canyon Diablo (fairly nondescript) - $1,300 1108 - 42.5lb Campo (good shape, no glypts - corroded) - missed price 1109 - 1,220 lb butt-ugly Campo - $19,000 1110 - 127 lb Canyon Diablo - Special Note This iron looks great in the auction photo. It's not. The back of it was...ruined somehow. It looks like the owner sandblasted the back down to a quasi-3D widmanstatten surface, and then coated it in some sort of plastic/sealant that tinged it all (only the backside, but the entire backside) a nasty light-green hue, and gave it a smooth, shiny, plastic-ey look and feel. I don't know what the hell s/he did to it, but we decided ahead of time that we didn't want it, no matter the cost. That said - $18,000 1111 - 385g Slice of NWA 1941 L6 (the "blue" one Michael Farmer's been selling) - $950 (!) 1112 - 34mm diameter NWA XXX Sphere (no weight given, listed as NWA 869, but not NWA 869) - $350 1113 - 1,994g NWA XXX Sphere (4in diameter, again listed as NWA 869, but a different meteorite) - $1,800 1114 - 2.0g Murchison frag, no crust - $400 (!) 1115 - Arroyo Malo 75.1g - $500 (slightly less than $50/g) 1116 - Arroyo Malo 202.5g - $850 (again, somewhat less than $50/g) 1117 - Libyan Glass Pair (183g light + 77g dark) - missed the number, at least $400 1118 - 1,451g Libyan Glass (numerous large chips) - $1,400 1119 - Collection of Six Lunar and Martian Meteorites - 0.05g to 0.054g in weight - $1,800 (...I estimate its value, based on the specimens, their weights, and current market prices, at no more than $300) 1120 - Set of Five Medals w/ Meteorites (Campo/869/482/2995/2986) - $275 1121 - 1.85g DaG 476 Slice - $950 1122 - 2.718g NWA 4880 Sherg. Indiv. (broken) - $4,500 (!) 1123 - 5.85g of LA002 - $9,000 (!) 1124 - 90.5g Shergottite Indiv - Special Note This stone had a chip not pictured - just above and to the left of what would be visible in the photographs posted in the auction.It was a fresh chip - looked as though a curious nomad had knocked the corner (unfortunately the leading edge) off of it. Go figure. My only question regarding the stone was that the edge of the chip was painted black. It was definitely some sort of paint; not only was it less glossy and darker in colour than the rest of the stone, but...it rubbed off. The only possible explanation we could come up with was that it had been put on the stone so as to hide the edge of the chip in the auction photograph. It is visible in the photograph just to the left of the top of the stone as a thin edge of grey of a different hue (slightly) than the rest of the stone, running about half-way down that top-left side. It looks like a result of the lighting in the photo, but it's definitely not that... Very odd. - $30,000 - Pass 1125 - 1.3308g Dhofar 1428 Slice (Feldspathic IMB) - $1,600 1126 - 1.0064g DaG 400 Part-Slice (Anorthositic Breccia) - $1,400 So...nothing -too- surprising. The low end was the Udei, at $1.67/g, and the high-end, well - a good few things. The bidders who went over market tended not to be meteorite enthusiasts; I heard a phone-bidder assuring her client that the $950 purchase of the $385g slice of NWA 1941 (L6) was a "very good deal." Granted, it was a nice slice, but if you take the 20% commission and 8% tax into account for it (and all other items), well...that Sikhote was nothing special, and it cost the buyer close to $4/g... It looked like the buyers generally went with what looked flashier or more interesting. The Murchison was listed as a piece of a comet, and the NWA 1941 was listed as the "Blue Galaxy Meteorite" - something like that. The better the listing made things sound, the more they fetched. Something like Udei, which looked particularly bad in their case, which, in all fairness, didn't have adequate lighting for such a specimen, attracted little-to-no attention from...anyone. Regards, Jason ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Sun Dec 7 19:55:57 2008 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 16:55:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Bonhams Auction Results In-Reply-To: <529246338-1228697597-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-224959700-@bxe202.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <77494.18437.qm@web110206.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Yes, however, the Esquel (mine) did not sell, it did not meet reserve. I am sick at these prices, I could have done better on ebay. I paid $2000.00 for the 2 kilo sphere, now with seller premium, I lost at least $200 and the time to mess with it. Mike --- On Sun, 12/7/08, mail at mhmeteorites.com wrote: > From: mail at mhmeteorites.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Bonhams Auction Results > To: "Jason Utas" , "Meteorite-list" > Date: Sunday, December 7, 2008, 5:49 PM > OMG - should have bid. > Do these include the buyers premium? > Matt > Matt Morgan > Mile High Meteorites > http://www.mhmeteorites.com > P.O. Box 151293 > Lakewood, CO 80215 USA > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Jason Utas" > > Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 16:17:18 > To: > Meteorite-list > Subject: [meteorite-list] Bonhams Auction Results > > > Hello All, > I read through the legal print in the front of the catalog, > and it > looks like it's ok to post the results publicly. > > 1086 - 315g Gibeon Sphere - $475 > 1087 - 140g Gibeon Egg - $190 > 1088 - 490g Gibeon Slice - $375 > 1089 - 321g Gibeon Slice - Pass > 1090 - 2 Gibeon Slices (281 + 262g) - $325 > 1091 - Gibeon Part-Slice $475 > 1092 - 552g Gibeon Slice - $400 > 1093 - 2.6kg Gibeon Cut Block - $1,700 > 1094 - 7,150g Gibeon Slice - $3.250 - Pass > 1095 - 1,361g Muonionalusta End - $500 > 1096 - 136g Chinga Slice - $120 > 1097 - 494g Seymchan Slice - $425 > 1098 - 121g Udei Station End - $200 (!) > 1099 - 276g New NWA Iron (silicated) slice - $600 > 1100 - "7lb" Sikhote Shrapnel - listed as > "oriented" - $1,500 > 1101 - 1,304g Sikhote Individual - $2,900 (!) > 1102 - 8kg Corroded Sikhote (*no* remaining fusion crust) - > $6,500 - Pass > 1103 - 334g Fukang Part-Slice (shattered crystals) - $3,750 > 1104 - 520g Esquel Part-Slice - $12,000 > 1105 - Pair of Campo Ends (206g and 430g, one silicated) - > ~$400 - > Pass (Passed at $400 for 600g of Campo....right)\ > 1106 - 1,886g Campo Indiv (nice) - $300 > 1107 - 3,146g Canyon Diablo (fairly nondescript) - $1,300 > 1108 - 42.5lb Campo (good shape, no glypts - corroded) - > missed price > 1109 - 1,220 lb butt-ugly Campo - $19,000 > 1110 - 127 lb Canyon Diablo - Special Note > This iron looks great in the auction photo. It's not. > The back of it > was...ruined somehow. It looks like the owner sandblasted > the back > down to a quasi-3D widmanstatten surface, and then coated > it in some > sort of plastic/sealant that tinged it all (only the > backside, but the > entire backside) a nasty light-green hue, and gave it a > smooth, shiny, > plastic-ey look and feel. I don't know what the hell > s/he did to it, > but we decided ahead of time that we didn't want it, no > matter the > cost. > That said - $18,000 > 1111 - 385g Slice of NWA 1941 L6 (the "blue" one > Michael Farmer's been > selling) - $950 (!) > 1112 - 34mm diameter NWA XXX Sphere (no weight given, > listed as NWA > 869, but not NWA 869) - $350 > 1113 - 1,994g NWA XXX Sphere (4in diameter, again listed as > NWA 869, > but a different meteorite) - $1,800 > 1114 - 2.0g Murchison frag, no crust - $400 (!) > 1115 - Arroyo Malo 75.1g - $500 (slightly less than $50/g) > 1116 - Arroyo Malo 202.5g - $850 (again, somewhat less than > $50/g) > 1117 - Libyan Glass Pair (183g light + 77g dark) - missed > the number, > at least $400 > 1118 - 1,451g Libyan Glass (numerous large chips) - $1,400 > 1119 - Collection of Six Lunar and Martian Meteorites - > 0.05g to > 0.054g in weight - $1,800 (...I estimate its value, based > on the > specimens, their weights, and current market prices, at no > more than > $300) > 1120 - Set of Five Medals w/ Meteorites > (Campo/869/482/2995/2986) - $275 > 1121 - 1.85g DaG 476 Slice - $950 > 1122 - 2.718g NWA 4880 Sherg. Indiv. (broken) - $4,500 (!) > 1123 - 5.85g of LA002 - $9,000 (!) > 1124 - 90.5g Shergottite Indiv - Special Note > This stone had a chip not pictured - just above and to the > left of > what would be visible in the photographs posted in the > auction.It was > a fresh chip - looked as though a curious nomad had knocked > the corner > (unfortunately the leading edge) off of it. Go figure. My > only > question regarding the stone was that the edge of the chip > was painted > black. It was definitely some sort of paint; not only was > it less > glossy and darker in colour than the rest of the stone, > but...it > rubbed off. The only possible explanation we could come up > with was > that it had been put on the stone so as to hide the edge of > the chip > in the auction photograph. It is visible in the photograph > just to > the left of the top of the stone as a thin edge of grey of > a different > hue (slightly) than the rest of the stone, running about > half-way down > that top-left side. It looks like a result of the lighting > in the > photo, but it's definitely not that... > Very odd. - $30,000 - Pass > 1125 - 1.3308g Dhofar 1428 Slice (Feldspathic IMB) - $1,600 > 1126 - 1.0064g DaG 400 Part-Slice (Anorthositic Breccia) - > $1,400 > > So...nothing -too- surprising. The low end was the Udei, > at $1.67/g, > and the high-end, well - a good few things. The bidders > who went over > market tended not to be meteorite enthusiasts; I heard a > phone-bidder > assuring her client that the $950 purchase of the $385g > slice of NWA > 1941 (L6) was a "very good deal." Granted, it > was a nice slice, but > if you take the 20% commission and 8% tax into account for > it (and all > other items), well...that Sikhote was nothing special, and > it cost the > buyer close to $4/g... > > It looked like the buyers generally went with what looked > flashier or > more interesting. The Murchison was listed as a piece of a > comet, and > the NWA 1941 was listed as the "Blue Galaxy > Meteorite" - something > like that. The better the listing made things sound, the > more they > fetched. Something like Udei, which looked particularly > bad in their > case, which, in all fairness, didn't have adequate > lighting for such a > specimen, attracted little-to-no attention from...anyone. > > Regards, > Jason > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From rockhoundm at abaconet.com.ar Sun Dec 7 19:44:34 2008 From: rockhoundm at abaconet.com.ar (Eduardo.) Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2008 21:44:34 -0300 Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December 7, 2008 In-Reply-To: <29421592.2233561228649906961.JavaMail.root@mbs4.homesteadmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Michael You mention that the pictured Malotas might be the only complete individual, but actually the main mass of 4712g is an individual which is now in my collection. best regards Eduardo -----Original Message----- From: Michael Johnson To: Meteorite List Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 03:38:26 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December 7, 2008 > http://www.rocksfromspace.org/December_7_2008.html > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From epgrondine at yahoo.com Sun Dec 7 20:10:09 2008 From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 17:10:09 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Market Prices Message-ID: <944551.66883.qm@web36907.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi all - For the last several years I hav had a different way of thinking about money. Let me try to explain. It appears that we've had a major impact megatsunami about 1 per 1000 years in the recent past. Given the current coastal population densities, the next one should kill about 60,000,000. Divide 60,000,000 by 1,000, and you end up with 6,000 per year. Divide 6,000 by 365 days, and you can take it down to hours and minutes if you like. Then add Tunguska class impactors at the rate of 1 per 100 years. Of course, if it hits someplace remote, say farmlands or mid ocean, then you only loose a few, close to 0. But if it hits a city, you loose 20,000,000. So what are the chances of a city being hit? how much of the Earth's surface is urban? Then divide, and add to the 6,000. Oh, and then there's climate collapse from a cometary dust veil. The population is 6,000,000,000, and how many die due to starvation? 100,000? 200,000? 1,000,000? 500,000,000? And what is the frequency of occurrence? Break it down to a yearly number and add to the two numbers above. And how many dead in a large land impact, and how often? At one point I tried to break it down to lives lost per year, then to per day, then to per hour. Your numbers may vary, but then what do I know? E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas PS - As far as meteorites go, discretionary spending is way down. (I just had an order for 2 copies of my new book "Amazing Stories" canceled.) Some friends report sales running about 10% of normal. In economic terms, a panic has occurred, and the velocity of the money supply has fallen way off. Obama is ready to hit the ground running January 20, and confidence should return, and fairly quickly, but many people have been hurt, and hurt bad. Then there's always the unforeseen to think about. A little sci-fi. There is no doubt that videos increase the market value of falls, as do major "brand" names. Right now we have electronic picture frames, perhaps someday we'll have electronic video display boxes. Here's to better days ahead, Ed From meteoritekid at gmail.com Sun Dec 7 20:26:48 2008 From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 17:26:48 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] Bonhams Auction Results In-Reply-To: <529246338-1228697597-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-224959700-@bxe202.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <93aaac890812071617n7c59b075v9873f350772a5868@mail.gmail.com> <529246338-1228697597-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-224959700-@bxe202.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <93aaac890812071726l2a244fa7oe948c0784762bdc6@mail.gmail.com> No, buyers' premium was 20% and California sales tax (without a resale number) is 8%. ...So add 28% Jason On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 4:49 PM, wrote: > OMG - should have bid. > Do these include the buyers premium? > Matt > Matt Morgan > Mile High Meteorites > http://www.mhmeteorites.com > P.O. Box 151293 > Lakewood, CO 80215 USA > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Jason Utas" > > Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 16:17:18 > To: Meteorite-list > Subject: [meteorite-list] Bonhams Auction Results > > > Hello All, > I read through the legal print in the front of the catalog, and it > looks like it's ok to post the results publicly. > > 1086 - 315g Gibeon Sphere - $475 > 1087 - 140g Gibeon Egg - $190 > 1088 - 490g Gibeon Slice - $375 > 1089 - 321g Gibeon Slice - Pass > 1090 - 2 Gibeon Slices (281 + 262g) - $325 > 1091 - Gibeon Part-Slice $475 > 1092 - 552g Gibeon Slice - $400 > 1093 - 2.6kg Gibeon Cut Block - $1,700 > 1094 - 7,150g Gibeon Slice - $3.250 - Pass > 1095 - 1,361g Muonionalusta End - $500 > 1096 - 136g Chinga Slice - $120 > 1097 - 494g Seymchan Slice - $425 > 1098 - 121g Udei Station End - $200 (!) > 1099 - 276g New NWA Iron (silicated) slice - $600 > 1100 - "7lb" Sikhote Shrapnel - listed as "oriented" - $1,500 > 1101 - 1,304g Sikhote Individual - $2,900 (!) > 1102 - 8kg Corroded Sikhote (*no* remaining fusion crust) - $6,500 - Pass > 1103 - 334g Fukang Part-Slice (shattered crystals) - $3,750 > 1104 - 520g Esquel Part-Slice - $12,000 > 1105 - Pair of Campo Ends (206g and 430g, one silicated) - ~$400 - > Pass (Passed at $400 for 600g of Campo....right)\ > 1106 - 1,886g Campo Indiv (nice) - $300 > 1107 - 3,146g Canyon Diablo (fairly nondescript) - $1,300 > 1108 - 42.5lb Campo (good shape, no glypts - corroded) - missed price > 1109 - 1,220 lb butt-ugly Campo - $19,000 > 1110 - 127 lb Canyon Diablo - Special Note > This iron looks great in the auction photo. It's not. The back of it > was...ruined somehow. It looks like the owner sandblasted the back > down to a quasi-3D widmanstatten surface, and then coated it in some > sort of plastic/sealant that tinged it all (only the backside, but the > entire backside) a nasty light-green hue, and gave it a smooth, shiny, > plastic-ey look and feel. I don't know what the hell s/he did to it, > but we decided ahead of time that we didn't want it, no matter the > cost. > That said - $18,000 > 1111 - 385g Slice of NWA 1941 L6 (the "blue" one Michael Farmer's been > selling) - $950 (!) > 1112 - 34mm diameter NWA XXX Sphere (no weight given, listed as NWA > 869, but not NWA 869) - $350 > 1113 - 1,994g NWA XXX Sphere (4in diameter, again listed as NWA 869, > but a different meteorite) - $1,800 > 1114 - 2.0g Murchison frag, no crust - $400 (!) > 1115 - Arroyo Malo 75.1g - $500 (slightly less than $50/g) > 1116 - Arroyo Malo 202.5g - $850 (again, somewhat less than $50/g) > 1117 - Libyan Glass Pair (183g light + 77g dark) - missed the number, > at least $400 > 1118 - 1,451g Libyan Glass (numerous large chips) - $1,400 > 1119 - Collection of Six Lunar and Martian Meteorites - 0.05g to > 0.054g in weight - $1,800 (...I estimate its value, based on the > specimens, their weights, and current market prices, at no more than > $300) > 1120 - Set of Five Medals w/ Meteorites (Campo/869/482/2995/2986) - $275 > 1121 - 1.85g DaG 476 Slice - $950 > 1122 - 2.718g NWA 4880 Sherg. Indiv. (broken) - $4,500 (!) > 1123 - 5.85g of LA002 - $9,000 (!) > 1124 - 90.5g Shergottite Indiv - Special Note > This stone had a chip not pictured - just above and to the left of > what would be visible in the photographs posted in the auction.It was > a fresh chip - looked as though a curious nomad had knocked the corner > (unfortunately the leading edge) off of it. Go figure. My only > question regarding the stone was that the edge of the chip was painted > black. It was definitely some sort of paint; not only was it less > glossy and darker in colour than the rest of the stone, but...it > rubbed off. The only possible explanation we could come up with was > that it had been put on the stone so as to hide the edge of the chip > in the auction photograph. It is visible in the photograph just to > the left of the top of the stone as a thin edge of grey of a different > hue (slightly) than the rest of the stone, running about half-way down > that top-left side. It looks like a result of the lighting in the > photo, but it's definitely not that... > Very odd. - $30,000 - Pass > 1125 - 1.3308g Dhofar 1428 Slice (Feldspathic IMB) - $1,600 > 1126 - 1.0064g DaG 400 Part-Slice (Anorthositic Breccia) - $1,400 > > So...nothing -too- surprising. The low end was the Udei, at $1.67/g, > and the high-end, well - a good few things. The bidders who went over > market tended not to be meteorite enthusiasts; I heard a phone-bidder > assuring her client that the $950 purchase of the $385g slice of NWA > 1941 (L6) was a "very good deal." Granted, it was a nice slice, but > if you take the 20% commission and 8% tax into account for it (and all > other items), well...that Sikhote was nothing special, and it cost the > buyer close to $4/g... > > It looked like the buyers generally went with what looked flashier or > more interesting. The Murchison was listed as a piece of a comet, and > the NWA 1941 was listed as the "Blue Galaxy Meteorite" - something > like that. The better the listing made things sound, the more they > fetched. Something like Udei, which looked particularly bad in their > case, which, in all fairness, didn't have adequate lighting for such a > specimen, attracted little-to-no attention from...anyone. > > Regards, > Jason > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From dave at fallingrocks.com Sun Dec 7 20:30:29 2008 From: dave at fallingrocks.com (Dave Gheesling) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 20:30:29 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] New Canadian Meteorite for sale In-Reply-To: <93aaac890812071551q716f2d2dh97ba852ff640eeb7@mail.gmail.com> References: <8CB26D03E1FDFFF-15E0-D52@webmail-me11.sysops.aol.com><93aaac890812071511w6b5db876jc9147a77913d6491@mail.gmail.com><8CB26DC6AB528AF-15E0-109B@webmail-me11.sysops.aol.com> <93aaac890812071551q716f2d2dh97ba852ff640eeb7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <141D013711184C4AB2D35EEECA216EA0@meteorroom> Maybe that someone isn't getting it...wow. Sonny and McCartney, if the market is willing to pay you $50,000 for your recoveries, congrats on a job well done. Dave www.fallingrocks.com -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Jason Utas Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 6:52 PM To: Meteorite-list Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New Canadian Meteorite for sale ...And what's that supposed to mean? On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 3:41 PM, wrote: > Geez Jason, > > You must be on restriction or something! > > Sonny > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jason Utas > To: Meteorite-list > Sent: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 3:11 pm > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New Canadian Meteorite for sale > > > > > > > Hola, > I've heard that you fellows fetched over a kilogram. > $50/g isn't a bad price for you to set, considering that you both > probably spent less than $1,500 all told for the trip, each. > I mean, it's not like you had to deal with any dangers or risk. You > left when you knew meteorites had been found, and travelled to a safe, > civilized location. I suppose there might have been a risk in not > being allowed to search private land, but, honestly...that's not > stopped any hunters I know on this list. > Anyway, it sounds like nice material. Like every other fresh fall > from the past...well, since forever. > As to your stating that you "would say it is up to the individuals > that took the time and effort to get out in the field to do the > recovery work," well, fine. I just wonder why the hunters who went to > Kilabo, Bensour, Thuathe, Chergach, Bassikounou, and even Park Forest, > charged substantially less than you are supposedly asking for this > fall. > As your friend, fellow hunter, and prospective customer, I'd like to > know why. Because it looks like you're set to make $25,000 off of > this, along with McCartney (another $25,000). Why do I, and other > meteorite collectors, owe you that? > Regards, > Jason > > On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 2:14 PM, wrote: >> >> Hi All, >> >> I would have responded earlier but our Internet connection was not > > the >> >> best. We just flew in from Canada today. What is a fair price per > > gram? I >> >> would say it is up to the individuals that took the time and effort > > to get >> >> out in the field to do the recovery work. I knew before leaving home > > that if >> >> we were lucky enough to find any material that we would have to leave > > it in >> >> Canada and go through the proper channels to obtain this legally. > > Most of >> >> the area where the fall took place has been locked up with NO > > TRESPASSING >> >> signs posted. We were fortunate enough to negotiate a deal with the > > owners >> >> of some private property. We have been told the chances of any > > material >> >> leaving Canada with a permit is almost impossible. How nice would it > > be to >> >> have a new Canadian meteorite from a witnessed fall with proper >> documentation? This is my first time to pick up a meteorite as fresh > > as >> >> this. You can almost rub off the fusion crust and the interior is > > bright >> >> white. I will have a picture showing the interior of the meteorite > > posted >> >> within the next couple of days. So lets keep our fingers crossed to > > have >> >> these meteorites in the U.S.A within 6 months to a year. I was > > thinking >> >> about playing a joke on Mccartney and placing a meteorite in his > > backpack to >> >> see if he could make it through customs and once we made it into the > > U.S.A >> >> telling McCartney "Hey half of the meteorite is mine!" Just teasing. >> >> >> Thanks, >> Sonny >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From dave at fallingrocks.com Sun Dec 7 20:47:19 2008 From: dave at fallingrocks.com (Dave Gheesling) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 20:47:19 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day -December 7, 2008 In-Reply-To: References: <29421592.2233561228649906961.JavaMail.root@mbs4.homesteadmail.com> Message-ID: <92C341F797874928A64A230BA4123790@meteorroom> Eduardo & All, I sent that caption to Michael, so it is my doing. I'm glad to receive your reply, as this is exactly why I included that line with the image. The individual from whom I acquired the 328 gram piece also told me they thought it might be the largest intact individual, and I've been wondering whether that might be true or not. Anyway, if you have a photograph please send it along...would love to see the specimen! Best regards, Dave www.fallingrocks.com -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Eduardo. Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 7:45 PM To: Michael Johnson; Meteorite List Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day -December 7, 2008 Hi Michael You mention that the pictured Malotas might be the only complete individual, but actually the main mass of 4712g is an individual which is now in my collection. best regards Eduardo -----Original Message----- From: Michael Johnson To: Meteorite List Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 03:38:26 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December 7, 2008 > http://www.rocksfromspace.org/December_7_2008.html > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mexicodoug at aim.com Sun Dec 7 21:58:45 2008 From: mexicodoug at aim.com (mexicodoug at aim.com) Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2008 21:58:45 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Bonhams Auction Results In-Reply-To: <77494.18437.qm@web110206.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CB26F805515E5E-17D4-16B2@WEBMAIL-MA18.sysops.aol.com> Mike wrote: "I paid $2000.00 for the 2 kilo sphere, now with seller premium, I lost at least $200 and the time to mess with it." Let's see, didn't you lose $560.00 if the $2000 is a hard figure? Isn't there both a 20% premium on hammer for the buyer as well as a 20% of hammer commission? Please correct this if it is wrong, but it appears they 'earn' from both buyers and sellers. This is my understanding: seller gets $1,440 hammer price $1,800 sale price $2,160 with tax $2,333 don't even ask about shipping fees... So, unless Mike was cut a special deal on his sphere and didn't have to pay 20% seller-side commission of the hammer price, he lost $560 plus the shipping fees to get it to the auction plus the hassle. May more for cataloging and promotional fees. Of course, these fees are not applied equally to all sellers in the auction. If you happen to know who is administering the sale, they might give you a lower commision under the radar. I didn't say under the table - it's just an auction, not a moral venture. Thus Udei Station's seller should have received per gram: $ 1.32 sale price: $ 1.98 with tax: $ 2.14 The total markup of auction house on consigned goods at sellers risks of providing, before tax, btw, is an even 50% if I a correctly understanding the terms. Something to keep in mind when bellyaching about ebay and Blood's Auction. This auction company took gross profit off meteorites $14,708, assuming they charged everyone the 20% and didn't cut special deals for preferred sellers. 25% of their profit and the total auction sales in meteorites was the single LA002 Martian lot. All in all, the hammer came down on $ 36,769 The auction house technically grossed $ 14,708 But offered on the block (low end) $ 225,719 Total sold: 16.3% of offerings' value. WOW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Which should be compared to 22/40 lots sold (>half full?), the best piece of news from a lackluster auction which the optimists can use as a judge ... Martin, you're right - all looks hunky-dory! (Hey Martin's the only one that reads this, gotta get his attention) Happy Holidays, Doug Sr. Businessman dreaming about free meteorites and nightmares of hunters that pay for the pleasure -----Original Message----- From: Michael Farmer To: Jason Utas ; Meteorite-list ; mail at mhmeteorites.com Sent: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 7:55 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Bonhams Auction Results Yes, however, the Esquel (mine) did not sell, it did not meet reserve. I am sick at these prices, I could have done better on ebay. I paid $2000.00 for the 2 kilo sphere, now with seller premium, I lost at least $200 and the time to mess with it. Mike --- On Sun, 12/7/08, mail at mhmeteorites.com wrote: > From: mail at mhmeteorites.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Bonhams Auction Results > To: "Jason Utas" , "Meteorite-list" > Date: Sunday, December 7, 2008, 5:49 PM > OMG - should have bid. > Do these include the buyers premium? > Matt > Matt Morgan > Mile High Meteorites > http://www.mhmeteorites.com > P.O. Box 151293 > Lakewood, CO 80215 USA > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Jason Utas" > > Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 16:17:18 > To: > Meteorite-list > Subject: [meteorite-list] Bonhams Auction Results > > > Hello All, > I read through the legal print in the front of the catalog, > and it > looks like it's ok to post the results publicly. > > 1086 - 315g Gibeon Sphere - $475 > 1087 - 140g Gibeon Egg - $190 > 1088 - 490g Gibeon Slice - $375 > 1089 - 321g Gibeon Slice - Pass > 1090 - 2 Gibeon Slices (281 + 262g) - $325 > 1091 - Gibeon Part-Slice $475 > 1092 - 552g Gibeon Slice - $400 > 1093 - 2.6kg Gibeon Cut Block - $1,700 > 1094 - 7,150g Gibeon Slice - $3.250 - Pass > 1095 - 1,361g Muonionalusta End - $500 > 1096 - 136g Chinga Slice - $120 > 1097 - 494g Seymchan Slice - $425 > 1098 - 121g Udei Station End - $200 (!) > 1099 - 276g New NWA Iron (silicated) slice - $600 > 1100 - "7lb" Sikhote Shrapnel - listed as > "oriented" - $1,500 > 1101 - 1,304g Sikhote Individual - $2,900 (!) > 1102 - 8kg Corroded Sikhote (*no* remaining fusion crust) - > $6,500 - Pass > 1103 - 334g Fukang Part-Slice (shattered crystals) - $3,750 > 1104 - 520g Esquel Part-Slice - $12,000 > 1105 - Pair of Campo Ends (206g and 430g, one silicated) - > ~$400 - > Pass (Passed at $400 for 600g of Campo....right)\ > 1106 - 1,886g Campo Indiv (nice) - $300 > 1107 - 3,146g Canyon Diablo (fairly nondescript) - $1,300 > 1108 - 42.5lb Campo (good shape, no glypts - corroded) - > missed price > 1109 - 1,220 lb butt-ugly Campo - $19,000 > 1110 - 127 lb Canyon Diablo - Special Note > This iron looks great in the auction photo. It's not. > The back of it > was...ruined somehow. It looks like the owner sandblasted > the back > down to a quasi-3D widmanstatten surface, and then coated > it in some > sort of plastic/sealant that tinged it all (only the > backside, but the > entire backside) a nasty light-green hue, and gave it a > smooth, shiny, > plastic-ey look and feel. I don't know what the hell > s/he did to it, > but we decided ahead of time that we didn't want it, no > matter the > cost. > That said - $18,000 > 1111 - 385g Slice of NWA 1941 L6 (the "blue" one > Michael Farmer's been > selling) - $950 (!) > 1112 - 34mm diameter NWA XXX Sphere (no weight given, > listed as NWA > 869, but not NWA 869) - $350 > 1113 - 1,994g NWA XXX Sphere (4in diameter, again listed as > NWA 869, > but a different meteorite) - $1,800 > 1114 - 2.0g Murchison frag, no crust - $400 (!) > 1115 - Arroyo Malo 75.1g - $500 (slightly less than $50/g) > 1116 - Arroyo Malo 202.5g - $850 (again, somewhat less than > $50/g) > 1117 - Libyan Glass Pair (183g light + 77g dark) - missed > the number, > at least $400 > 1118 - 1,451g Libyan Glass (numerous large chips) - $1,400 > 1119 - Collection of Six Lunar and Martian Meteorites - > 0.05g to > 0.054g in weight - $1,800 (...I estimate its value, based > on the > specimens, their weights, and current market prices, at no > more than > $300) > 1120 - Set of Five Medals w/ Meteorites > (Campo/869/482/2995/2986) - $275 > 1121 - 1.85g DaG 476 Slice - $950 > 1122 - 2.718g NWA 4880 Sherg. Indiv. (broken) - $4,500 (!) > 1123 - 5.85g of LA002 - $9,000 (!) > 1124 - 90.5g Shergottite Indiv - Special Note > This stone had a chip not pictured - just above and to the > left of > what would be visible in the photographs posted in the > auction.It was > a fresh chip - looked as though a curious nomad had knocked > the corner > (unfortunately the leading edge) off of it. Go figure. My > only > question regarding the stone was that the edge of the chip > was painted > black. It was definitely some sort of paint; not only was > it less > glossy and darker in colour than the rest of the stone, > but...it > rubbed off. The only possible explanation we could come up > with was > that it had been put on the stone so as to hide the edge of > the chip > in the auction photograph. It is visible in the photograph > just to > the left of the top of the stone as a thin edge of grey of > a different > hue (slightly) than the rest of the stone, running about > half-way down > that top-left side. It looks like a result of the lighting > in the > photo, but it's definitely not that... > Very odd. - $30,000 - Pass > 1125 - 1.3308g Dhofar 1428 Slice (Feldspathic IMB) - $1,600 > 1126 - 1.0064g DaG 400 Part-Slice (Anorthositic Breccia) - > $1,400 > > So...nothing -too- surprising. The low end was the Udei, > at $1.67/g, > and the high-end, well - a good few things. The bidders > who went over > market tended not to be meteorite enthusiasts; I heard a > phone-bidder > assuring her client that the $950 purchase of the $385g > slice of NWA > 1941 (L6) was a "very good deal." Granted, it > was a nice slice, but > if you take the 20% commission and 8% tax into account for > it (and all > other items), well...that Sikhote was nothing special, and > it cost the > buyer close to $4/g... > > It looked like the buyers generally went with what looked > flashier or > more interesting. The Murchison was listed as a piece of a > comet, and > the NWA 1941 was listed as the "Blue Galaxy > Meteorite" - something > like that. The better the listing made things sound, the > more they > fetched. Something like Udei, which looked particularly > bad in their > case, which, in all fairness, didn't have adequate > lighting for such a > specimen, attracted little-to-no attention from...anyone. > > Regards, > Jason > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From paul at meteorite.com Sun Dec 7 22:31:17 2008 From: paul at meteorite.com (Paul Harris) Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2008 19:31:17 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] December Issue of Meteorite-Times Now Up Message-ID: <493C9505.3030106@meteorite.com> Dear List, The December issue of Meteorite-Times is now up. http://www.meteorite-times.com/ A huge thank you to all the writers and people who contributed this year. Meteorite-Times only happens because of you. Thank you all, Paul and Jim From rsvp321 at hotmail.com Sun Dec 7 22:41:58 2008 From: rsvp321 at hotmail.com (Pete Pete) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 22:41:58 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] New Canadian Meteorite for sale In-Reply-To: <141D013711184C4AB2D35EEECA216EA0@meteorroom> References: <8CB26D03E1FDFFF-15E0-D52@webmail-me11.sysops.aol.com><93aaac890812071511w6b5db876jc9147a77913d6491@mail.gmail.com><8CB26DC6AB528AF-15E0-109B@webmail-me11.sysops.aol.com> <93aaac890812071551q716f2d2dh97ba852ff640eeb7@mail.gmail.com> <141D013711184C4AB2D35EEECA216EA0@meteorroom> Message-ID: Hi, all, I may have missed it in a past post, but has the new Canadian meteorite been given a fall name yet? Cheers, Pete > From: dave at fallingrocks.com > To: meteoritekid at gmail.com; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 20:30:29 -0500 > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New Canadian Meteorite for sale > > Maybe that someone isn't getting it...wow. Sonny and McCartney, if the > market is willing to pay you $50,000 for your recoveries, congrats on a job > well done. > Dave > www.fallingrocks.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Jason Utas > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 6:52 PM > To: Meteorite-list > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New Canadian Meteorite for sale > > ...And what's that supposed to mean? > > > On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 3:41 PM, wrote: >> Geez Jason, >> >> You must be on restriction or something! >> >> Sonny >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Jason Utas >> To: Meteorite-list >> Sent: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 3:11 pm >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New Canadian Meteorite for sale >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Hola, >> I've heard that you fellows fetched over a kilogram. >> $50/g isn't a bad price for you to set, considering that you both >> probably spent less than $1,500 all told for the trip, each. >> I mean, it's not like you had to deal with any dangers or risk. You >> left when you knew meteorites had been found, and travelled to a safe, >> civilized location. I suppose there might have been a risk in not >> being allowed to search private land, but, honestly...that's not >> stopped any hunters I know on this list. >> Anyway, it sounds like nice material. Like every other fresh fall >> from the past...well, since forever. >> As to your stating that you "would say it is up to the individuals >> that took the time and effort to get out in the field to do the >> recovery work," well, fine. I just wonder why the hunters who went to >> Kilabo, Bensour, Thuathe, Chergach, Bassikounou, and even Park Forest, >> charged substantially less than you are supposedly asking for this >> fall. >> As your friend, fellow hunter, and prospective customer, I'd like to >> know why. Because it looks like you're set to make $25,000 off of >> this, along with McCartney (another $25,000). Why do I, and other >> meteorite collectors, owe you that? >> Regards, >> Jason >> >> On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 2:14 PM, wrote: >>> >>> Hi All, >>> >>> I would have responded earlier but our Internet connection was not >> >> the >>> >>> best. We just flew in from Canada today. What is a fair price per >> >> gram? I >>> >>> would say it is up to the individuals that took the time and effort >> >> to get >>> >>> out in the field to do the recovery work. I knew before leaving home >> >> that if >>> >>> we were lucky enough to find any material that we would have to leave >> >> it in >>> >>> Canada and go through the proper channels to obtain this legally. >> >> Most of >>> >>> the area where the fall took place has been locked up with NO >> >> TRESPASSING >>> >>> signs posted. We were fortunate enough to negotiate a deal with the >> >> owners >>> >>> of some private property. We have been told the chances of any >> >> material >>> >>> leaving Canada with a permit is almost impossible. How nice would it >> >> be to >>> >>> have a new Canadian meteorite from a witnessed fall with proper >>> documentation? This is my first time to pick up a meteorite as fresh >> >> as >>> >>> this. You can almost rub off the fusion crust and the interior is >> >> bright >>> >>> white. I will have a picture showing the interior of the meteorite >> >> posted >>> >>> within the next couple of days. So lets keep our fingers crossed to >> >> have >>> >>> these meteorites in the U.S.A within 6 months to a year. I was >> >> thinking >>> >>> about playing a joke on Mccartney and placing a meteorite in his >> >> backpack to >>> >>> see if he could make it through customs and once we made it into the >> >> U.S.A >>> >>> telling McCartney "Hey half of the meteorite is mine!" Just teasing. >>> >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Sonny >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> >> >> >> >> > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _________________________________________________________________ From clp at alumni.caltech.edu Sun Dec 7 22:45:24 2008 From: clp at alumni.caltech.edu (Chris Peterson) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 20:45:24 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Update on Colorado fireball Message-ID: I've posted more information about the Dec 6 fireball at http://www.cloudbait.com/science/fireball20081206.html in case anybody wants to start looking for pieces. Not the best ground to search, but better than the side of Pikes Peak, which was my first estimate. Chris ***************************************** Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com From mccartney at blackbearddata.com Sun Dec 7 23:54:23 2008 From: mccartney at blackbearddata.com (McCartney Taylor) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 22:54:23 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Pictures from the Lone Rock Strewnfield Message-ID: I was diligent in getting photos of stones in situ. The trick is to snap the picture before the cold snaps the battery dead. -20C does nasty things to battery chemistry. Note fusion crust looks 'wrong' with a light coating of ice that might be half sublimated. Also note, that only after 9 days on the ground, oxidation is already visible on some specimens. Spring stones should be noticeably different than winter stones. Lets hope this works... http://www.flickr.com/photos/20227815 at N06/sets/72157610818541399/ From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Mon Dec 8 06:07:30 2008 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 03:07:30 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Pictures from the Lone Rock Strewnfield In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <481882.59480.qm@web110216.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Nice photos, far cry from most of the hot place hunting I have done, although I went two times to Tagish Lake in winter. Congrats guys, you did it while other people talked. Mike --- On Sun, 12/7/08, McCartney Taylor wrote: > From: McCartney Taylor > Subject: [meteorite-list] Pictures from the Lone Rock Strewnfield > To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Sunday, December 7, 2008, 9:54 PM > I was diligent in getting photos of stones in situ. The > trick is to snap the picture before the cold snaps the > battery dead. -20C does nasty things to battery chemistry. > > Note fusion crust looks 'wrong' with a light > coating of ice that might be half sublimated. Also note, > that only after 9 days on the ground, oxidation is already > visible on some specimens. Spring stones should be > noticeably different than winter stones. > > Lets hope this works... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/20227815 at N06/sets/72157610818541399/ > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From michael at spacerocksinc.com Mon Dec 8 06:41:59 2008 From: michael at spacerocksinc.com (Michael Johnson) Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 03:41:59 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December 8, 2008 Message-ID: <9841598.2280531228736519431.JavaMail.root@mbs4.homesteadmail.com> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/December_8_2008.html From azizhabibi at yahoo.com Mon Dec 8 08:59:01 2008 From: azizhabibi at yahoo.com (habibi abdelaziz) Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 05:59:01 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] ad , rumuruties and some new stuffs Message-ID: <266903.26237.qm@web62005.mail.re1.yahoo.com> hello there and happy holidays i have for sale some rumuruti 's , _ the?NEW?R 3.0 THIS NEW TYPE _?also the rumuruti breccia,this fantastic R WITH INCLUSION INSIDE. ?and some other stuffs please email for photo and price. TO. aziz_habibi at hotmail.com or azizhabibi at yahoo.com ? habibi aziz www.palmserfoud.com www.palmotel.com box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco phone. 21235576145 fax.21235576170 From michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com Mon Dec 8 10:26:21 2008 From: michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com (Michael Gilmer) Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 07:26:21 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] No wonder Bonhams was a bust In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <102323.8014.qm@web58401.mail.re3.yahoo.com> "No, buyers' premium was 20% and California sales tax (without a resale number) is 8%. ...So add 28%" Jason ---- There you have your answer, in part. Add 28% means subtract 50% of the potential bidders, including me. I watched that auction, and was scared away from bidding by the man in a black ski-mask and a Bonham's jacket on. Call me naive, but tacking on an extra 30% after the gavel (almost) is highway robbery. And I thought eBay fees were ridiculous. I guess I'll never bid on a Bonham's auction. No offense to Mike or any of the other sellers who got hosed, but you couldn't put a gun to my head and make me give my stuff away like that and then pay through the wazoo to do it. No thanks. Better luck next time, MikeG ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale .......................................................... From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Mon Dec 8 12:14:05 2008 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 09:14:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Trinitite --Correction--UPDATE Message-ID: <590069.97023.qm@web55202.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Dear Mike just when you think you have the book ready to publish and you know all there is to know someone changes a chapter... So let me revisit what we thought we knew about trinitie formation I got this blurb today from Geology at about.com but the link to the WSMR Military website isn't there yet again. Since the new theory was published in 2005 I stand partially corrected about the origin of trinitite--there is a fallback theory paper! "The trinitite appears to have formed as sand was sucked up into the nuclear fireball and fell back in a rain of molten glass, according to a new theory(link to http://www.wsmr.army.mil/wsmr.asp?pg=y&page=591). It was always assumed that trinitite formed on the ground under the fireball's direct glare, but science thrives by revisiting assumptions in the search for truer explanations. " from Geology at about.com Newsletter All references to the "new theory " have been removed from the White Sands Missile Range web site and aren't on the Los Alamos Labs public site. So I don't know if the "new theory" has been withdrawn. The rayed star pattern of deposition, the lack of any trinitie more than 1200 ft from GZ and the fact that the trinitite deposits were generally concentric with GZ--e.g. not scattered down wind, makes me think that any fall back theory will need to go a long way to explain this away. In the interest of fairness and previous discussion I thought I'd share this snippet pending locating the text of the theory. Elton From clwaldeniii at comcast.net Mon Dec 8 12:16:35 2008 From: clwaldeniii at comcast.net (Chauncey Walden) Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2008 10:16:35 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Update on Colorado fireball Message-ID: <493D5673.7030702@comcast.net> From that altitude and with the prevailing winds aloft, that should put it on the ground in the middle of the Fort Carson Reservation. Maybe we can get then to trail some magnets from the tanks;-) From arn1200 at Comcast.net Mon Dec 8 13:14:26 2008 From: arn1200 at Comcast.net (Ken Regelman) Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 12:14:26 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad Message-ID: <00da01c95960$ceac7170$0802a8c0@ARN> Dear Friends A Black Christmas has befallen this house hold . I am retired and money is not that available anymore . While coming home last Friday my car Died The engine Must to be replaced before it will move again . I Must sell meteorites to pay for the fix . Anything you see on my website is for sale at reduced cost . I also have many vary rare meteorites I will soon put on the list or you can call or email me . I need to raise at least $3000 to pay for the fix . I have two beautiful mesosiderites of NWA2924 One 1080 g and one 726 g both museum quality !!! I have my website NWA2853g Howardite the main mass 860g at $5 a gram would be $4300 I am sorry I am still in shell shock !!!! Kenneth Regelman arn1200 at Comcast.net http://www.meteorites4sale.net/ WA0FAA From meteoritefinder at gmail.com Mon Dec 8 14:24:50 2008 From: meteoritefinder at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 12:24:50 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Update on Colorado fireball In-Reply-To: <493D5673.7030702@comcast.net> References: <493D5673.7030702@comcast.net> Message-ID: <468bf6050812081124n42f0ecackcc57c5b63f367d63@mail.gmail.com> When you say "Fort Carson Reservation" Is that a military base or an Indian reservation? On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 10:16 AM, Chauncey Walden wrote: > From that altitude and with the prevailing winds aloft, that should put it > on the ground in the middle of the Fort Carson Reservation. Maybe we can get > then to trail some magnets from the tanks;-) > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- Mike Miller 230 Greenway Dr. Kingman Az 86401 www.meteoritefinder.com 928-753-6825 From MeteorHntr at aol.com Mon Dec 8 14:33:39 2008 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 14:33:39 EST Subject: [meteorite-list] Impact Melt Breccia Message-ID: Hey List, Does anyone have a comprehensive list on all of the: H Impact Melt Breccias L Impact Melt Breccias LL Impact Melt Breccias Other Impact Melt Breccias Thanks, Steve Arnold #1 www.SteveArnoldMeteorites.com **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) From cynapse at charter.net Mon Dec 8 14:41:36 2008 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2008 14:41:36 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Update on Colorado fireball In-Reply-To: <468bf6050812081124n42f0ecackcc57c5b63f367d63@mail.gmail.com> References: <493D5673.7030702@comcast.net> <468bf6050812081124n42f0ecackcc57c5b63f367d63@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 8 Dec 2008 12:24:50 -0700, you wrote: >When you say "Fort Carson Reservation" Is that a military base or an >Indian reservation? In my (granted, limited) experience, few Indians have tanks. From yellowengine at earthlink.net Mon Dec 8 14:50:38 2008 From: yellowengine at earthlink.net (RJP) Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 13:50:38 -0600 (GMT-06:00) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Collection Pieces Message-ID: <27132117.1228765839114.JavaMail.root@elwamui-cypress.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Good Afternoon, I have a few pieces from my collection that I would like to sell. Very little to zero profit on these. Photos upon request: Bremham (Pal) - 195g "palm size" full slice (thin). $780 Gibeon - 460g etched full slice. $575 Millbillillie - 212g complete stone, "a grade". $2,120 I will cover domestic postage, and I do accept Paypal for those who prefer to go that route instead. Cheers, Ryan Pawelski From Impactika at aol.com Mon Dec 8 15:34:00 2008 From: Impactika at aol.com (Impactika at aol.com) Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 15:34:00 EST Subject: [meteorite-list] Update on Colorado fireball Message-ID: Hello Mike and List, Fort Carson is a large and active military base, a lot of training there before deployment in Iraq. I doubt they would welcome visitors. But you could try just west of the base along 115, mostly ranch land I believe. Also a major winter storm is expected here today. It is gray cold and light drizzle in Denver right now, it could already be snowing there. Sorry, I don't mean to be discouraging, but those are the facts. Anne M. Black http://www.impactika.com/ IMPACTIKA at aol.com Vice-President, I.M.C.A. Inc. http://www.imca.cc/ In a message dated 12/8/2008 12:25:03 PM Mountain Standard Time, meteoritefinder at gmail.com writes: When you say "Fort Carson Reservation" Is that a military base or an Indian reservation? On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 10:16 AM, Chauncey Walden wrote: > From that altitude and with the prevailing winds aloft, that should put it > on the ground in the middle of the Fort Carson Reservation. Maybe we can get > then to trail some magnets from the tanks;-) > > ______________________________________________ -- Mike Miller 230 Greenway Dr. Kingman Az 86401 www.meteoritefinder.com 928-753-6825 ______________________________________________ **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) From mail at mhmeteorites.com Mon Dec 8 15:39:33 2008 From: mail at mhmeteorites.com (mail at mhmeteorites.com) Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 20:39:33 +0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] Update on Colorado fireball Message-ID: <1626851286-1228768971-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-100975348-@bxe202.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> I had the privilege to map the geology of the north part of the Ft Carson base in 2002-2003. The area is very rugged, much like Glorieta, and is full of rocks. Not the best hunting grounds. I remember driving down one of the base roads in a remote area, and was ambushed by several men that were dressed like terrorists (masks, black clothing and machine guns). They thought I was part of the exercise. I explained who I was and we all had a laugh, but I nearly soiled myself! The area north of the base is extremely rugged with a few thousand feet in elevation changes, very remote (don't get lost) and full of mountain lions. I am not trying to scare you away, but this is no walk in the park. Matt ------Original Message------ From: Impactika at aol.com Sender: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com To: Mike Miller To: clwaldeniii at comcast.net Cc: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Sent: Dec 8, 2008 1:34 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Update on Colorado fireball Hello Mike and List, Fort Carson is a large and active military base, a lot of training there before deployment in Iraq. I doubt they would welcome visitors. But you could try just west of the base along 115, mostly ranch land I believe. Also a major winter storm is expected here today. It is gray cold and light drizzle in Denver right now, it could already be snowing there. Sorry, I don't mean to be discouraging, but those are the facts. Anne M. Black http://www.impactika.com/ IMPACTIKA at aol.com Vice-President, I.M.C.A. Inc. http://www.imca.cc/ In a message dated 12/8/2008 12:25:03 PM Mountain Standard Time, meteoritefinder at gmail.com writes: When you say "Fort Carson Reservation" Is that a military base or an Indian reservation? On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 10:16 AM, Chauncey Walden wrote: > From that altitude and with the prevailing winds aloft, that should put it > on the ground in the middle of the Fort Carson Reservation. Maybe we can get > then to trail some magnets from the tanks;-) > > ______________________________________________ -- Mike Miller 230 Greenway Dr. Kingman Az 86401 www.meteoritefinder.com 928-753-6825 ______________________________________________ **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Matt Morgan Mile High Meteorites http://www.mhmeteorites.com P.O. Box 151293 Lakewood, CO 80215 USA From mail at mhmeteorites.com Mon Dec 8 16:05:24 2008 From: mail at mhmeteorites.com (mail at mhmeteorites.com) Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 13:05:24 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD-Zagami and Bassikounou Message-ID: <20081208130524.08j2dp0bkkkgkcoc@webmail.mhmeteorites.com> I have two pieces that I am looking to move to make room for some new inventory. Looking for offers on 9.4 g crusted slice of Zagami. A very sweet piece Also, looking for offers on a 1,019 g Bassikounou (could make some killer big slices). Pictures are here: http://mhmeteorites.com/museum_gallery.html Any other questions just ask. Also, I am never insulted by offers. Try me. Matt Morgan From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Mon Dec 8 16:50:24 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 13:50:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteor Explodes Over Colorado Message-ID: <200812082150.NAA27292@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> Space Weather News for Dec. 6, 2008 http://spaceweather.com COLORADO FIREBALL: Last night, a fireball one hundred times brighter than the full Moon lit up the sky near Colorado Springs, Colorado. Astronomer Chris Peterson photographed the event using an all-sky video camera dedicated to meteor studies. "In seven years of operation, this is the brightest fireball I've ever recorded. I estimate the terminal explosion at magnitude -18." Meteors this bright are called superbolides; they are caused by small (meter-class) asteroids and are likely to pepper the ground with meteorites when they explode. Visit http://spaceweather.com to watch the fireball video and contribute sighting reports that could help pinpoint any meteoritic debris. From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Mon Dec 8 16:51:57 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 13:51:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorites Could Have Thickened Primordial Soup Message-ID: <200812082151.NAA27936@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/39124/title/Meteorites_could Meteorites could have thickened primordial soup High temperatures and pressures of impacts can create complex organic chemicals, tests show By Sid Perkins Science News December 8, 2008 In recent geological ages, large extraterrestrial bodies colliding with Earth have been associated with worldwide extinctions, but new experiments show that massive impacts that occurred early in our planet's history could have created the raw materials for life. The hellish temperatures and pressures generated when an extraterrestrial object strikes Earth at speeds of several kilometers per second are enough to shatter and vaporize rock (SN: 6/15/02, p. 378). Yet part of such an immense burst of energy can trigger chemical reactions that generate complex organic substances from basic inorganic ingredients, says Takeshi Kakegawa, a geochemist at Tohoku University in Sendai, Japan. He and his colleagues conducted lab experiments intended to simulate a common meteorite striking one of Earth's early oceans. The team reports its findings online December 7 in Nature Geoscience. First, the researchers filled tiny, thick-walled canisters of stainless steel with various mixtures of carbon, iron and nickel - common constituents of meteorites - and water, ammonia and nitrogen, significant components of the ancient ocean and atmosphere. Then, the team fired the canisters at a solid target. The shock of impact briefly subjected the enclosed materials to temperatures approaching 4,700?? Celsius and pressures about 60,000 times that of the atmosphere at sea level. These temperature and pressures are similar to those that would be caused by a large meteorite slamming into Earth at about 2 kilometers per second, says Kakegawa. After each test, Kakegawa and his team cleaned off the outside of the canister, drilled a hole in it, and then extracted and analyzed the contents. In two of the team's five tests, impacts created fatty acids like those found in cell membranes, and also generated a variety of amines, the ingredients for amino acids, Kakegawa says. In one test, the impact generated substantial amounts of glycine, the smallest of the 20 amino acids commonly found in proteins. None of the organic chemicals generated by the impacts was a contaminant from any poor handling, Kakegawa proposes. That's because all of the carbon in those resulting substances was the carbon-13 isotope, the same rare form that he and his colleagues used for the original mixture. Scientists estimate that around 4 billion billion (1018) metric tons of meteorites fell to Earth between 4.4 billion and 3.8 billion years ago. Even though meteorites only contain, on average, about 0.1 percent carbon, oceanic impacts during this era could have generated at least one hundred billion (1011) metric tons of organic substances, the researchers estimate. Although these chemicals couldn't have survived the conditions at ground zero of the impact, they probably could have formed in the more-tolerable temperatures present in the plumes of steam and vaporized rock that spewed skyward in the aftermath. The team's new analyses "are a nice piece of work," says George Cody, a geoscientist at the Carnegie Institution for Science in Washington, D.C. A number of previous studies have hinted that the building blocks of life could have been generated by lightning in Earth's ancient atmosphere (SN: 6/3/00, p. 363) or at deep-sea hydrothermal vents (SN: 9/9/00, p. 175; SN: 2/2/08, p. 67). Having multiple sources of such raw materials "makes determining the origin of life that much more difficult," Cody adds. However, he notes, "the more we learn, the more we see how early Earth was rich with organic compounds." From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Mon Dec 8 16:53:54 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 13:53:54 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] HiRISE Camera Captures High-Resolution 3D Images of Mars Message-ID: <200812082153.NAA28811@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> FROM: Lori Stiles (520-626-4402; lstiles at u.arizona.edu) HiRISE Camera Captures High-Resolution 3D Images of Mars December 8, 2008 The High Resolution Science Imaging Experiment, or HiRISE, team based at The University of Arizona today released 362 three-dimensional images of Mars taken by the HiRISE camera on NASA's Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter. Other Mars-orbiting cameras have taken 3D views of Mars, but the HiRISE camera - the most powerful camera ever to orbit another planet - can resolve features as small as one meter, or 40 inches, across. "It's really remarkable to see Martian rocks and features on the scale of a person in 3D," said Alfred McEwen of UA's Lunar and Planetary Laboratory, HiRISE principal investigator. "The level of detail is just much, much greater than anything previously seen from orbit." The 3D images, or anaglyphs, can be viewed on the HiRISE Web site (http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/anaglyph) with inexpensive color filter glasses commonly used for viewing 3D images and movies. The HiRISE Web site links to information on where to purchase and how to make 3D red-cyan filter glasses. Without 3D glasses, the Mars images appear out of register. (In Tucson, UA's Flandrau Science Center, 1601 E. University Blvd., and Starizona, 5757 N. Oracle Road, sell red-cyan filter glasses for $2 each.) Seen in HiRISE 3D, Mars becomes a collection of deep panoramic views that leap out from the computer screen. "You'd swear you could touch the terrain," HiRISE operations manager Eric Eliason said. Striking stereo views include: * Sixty-meter tall, or 200-foot-tall fractured mounds, probably composed of solidified lava, on the southern edge of Elysium Planitia. The fractured surface suggests that lava pushed the surface into domes, uplifting some sides along the same fracture higher than others. * Spectacular layers exposed on the floor about 2-and-a-half miles, or 4 kilometers, below the rim of Candor Chasma, which is a large canyon in the Valles Marineris system. The canyon may once have been filled to its rim by sedimentary layers of sand and dust-sized particles, but these have since eroded, leaving patterns of elongated hills and layered terrain that has been turned and folded in many angles and directions. * Groups of gullies at different elevations along the wall of an unnamed crater in Terra Cimmeria. The anaglyph image provides three-dimensional perspective on the depth of the gullies and the amount of material deposited below the gullies. Geological evidence suggests that the gullies may have formed by subsurface water, rather than by snow or ice melting on the surface. Other dramatic anaglyphs show a huge jumbled mass of rock that includes megabreccia at a central peak in Ritchey crater, ejecta-formed channels and mudflows at Hale crater, tightly folded rock layers lining the floor of Tithonium Chasm, "spiders" created by carbon dioxide venting through south polar layered deposits, and Martian glacier flows. Eliason and the team at HiROC, the High Resolution Imaging Operations Center on the UA campus, began processing stereo images in October. They automated some of the software used in processing HiRISE images so two images of a stereo pair could be fed into the software "pipeline" and correlated automatically. "The real advance here is making this process semi-automated so we can really crank through all these huge images," McEwen said. Producing anaglyphs from stereo pairs is otherwise a tedious, time-consuming effort. The HiRISE camera has so far taken 950 stereo image pairs. The camera features a half-meter, or 20-inch, diameter primary mirror and a focal plane mechanism that can acquire up to a 3.6 megapixel image in about 11 seconds. The anaglyphs are among 1,642 observations containing 3.6 terabytes of data and 148,000 image products that HiRISE released today to the Planetary Data System, or the PDS, the NASA mission data archive. Since HiRISE began the science phase of its mission in November 2006, the HiRISE team has released a total 867,430 image products, or 30.2 terabytes of data. That is by far the greatest volume of data a space experiment has delivered to the PDS, and well more than twice the data volume some HiRISE team members expected to get during the primary science phase. The HIRISE camera was designed to take images at high-convergence angles so researchers can calculate the thickness of surface features to within about 10 inches, or 25 centimeters. High-convergence angles used to get quantitative measurements aren't always best for making anaglyphs, McEwen said. In addition, if the two stereo images on two different orbits were taken far enough apart in time, the illumination or air opacity may have changed, or frost or dust devils may have appeared in one of the images, so paired images don't always match that well, he added. "Nevertheless, many of these stereo anaglyphs are very interesting and useful to us in understanding the topography," McEwen said. "There's a lot of science to be done by just looking at these directly and understanding what's up and what's down," he added. "Anaglyphs can definitely change how we interpret things, and help us focus on how to proceed when it comes to prioritizing some science tasks." Binocular vision gives humans wearing 3D color glasses the ability to see anaglyphs in three dimensions the same way they see in three dimensions through a View-Master viewer or a Victorian-era stereoscope. The same scene is viewed in two pictures taken from slightly different angles. Each eye has its own slightly different view, which the brain fuses together into a single picture with depth. With the colored glasses, the red filter for the left eye sees only red in the picture, the cyan filter for the right eye sees only blue-green in the picture, and the brain correlates the images. The glasses work for viewing stereo pictures in print or on TV, movie and computer screens. The Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter is managed by the Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif., for NASA's Science Mission Directorate, Washington. Lockheed Martin Space Systems of Denver built the spacecraft. The UA operates the HiRISE camera, built by Ball Aerospace and Technologies Corp. of Boulder, Colo. SCIENCE CONTACTS: Alfred McEwen (520-621-4573; mcewen at pirl.lpl.arizona.edu) Eric Eliason (520-626-0764; eeliason at pirl.lpl.arizona.edu) WEB LINKS: HiRISE: http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu MRO: http://www.nasa.gov/mro From cmb62 at columbus.rr.com Mon Dec 8 18:06:28 2008 From: cmb62 at columbus.rr.com (Charley) Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 18:06:28 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December 8, 2008 References: Message-ID: <8F33D08A922A42F7B8F0FF02E875148A@HAL> Hi Michael & List, WOW! Very nice! I would love to find one of these under MY Christmas tree! Thanks for sharing Michael (as always). Best regards, Charley "Well, squids don't work. Hey! Let's try elephants !" Hannibal > Message: 5 > Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 03:41:59 -0800 (PST) > From: Michael Johnson > Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - > December 8, 2008 > To: Meteorite List > Message-ID: > <9841598.2280531228736519431.JavaMail.root at mbs4.homesteadmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > http://www.rocksfromspace.org/December_8_2008.html From wahlperry at aol.com Mon Dec 8 18:12:28 2008 From: wahlperry at aol.com (wahlperry at aol.com) Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2008 18:12:28 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Picture of new Canadian meteorite / Interior Message-ID: <8CB27A19331C185-6B0-F52@webmail-dd02.sysops.aol.com> Hi, I have posted a couple of pictures of the interior of the new Canadian meteorite . I have the original photo that is in a very large format. If any Universities would like the larger format contact me off list and I will send it to you. The photo on my web page has been reduced significantly. Thanks, Sonny http://www.nevadameteorites.com/id35.htm From grf2 at verizon.net Mon Dec 8 18:26:25 2008 From: grf2 at verizon.net (Jerry Flaherty) Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2008 18:26:25 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Picture of new Canadian meteorite / Interior References: <8CB27A19331C185-6B0-F52@webmail-dd02.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <9A42718CF6D84B0C9BF4685AA0CFAEEC@ASUS> Sure looks like an H. Jerry F ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 6:12 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Picture of new Canadian meteorite / Interior > Hi, > > I have posted a couple of pictures of the interior of the new Canadian > meteorite . I have the original photo that is in a very large format. > If any Universities would like the larger format contact me off list > and I will send it to you. The photo on my web page has been reduced > significantly. > > Thanks, > Sonny > > > > > http://www.nevadameteorites.com/id35.htm > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From grf2 at verizon.net Mon Dec 8 18:32:54 2008 From: grf2 at verizon.net (Jerry Flaherty) Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2008 18:32:54 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] HiRISE Camera Captures High-Resolution 3D Images of Mars References: <200812082153.NAA28811@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <46A8EB4786E246CFABC9F122F077829D@ASUS> These images are truly spectacular. My $11 3D glasses just proved their worth. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Baalke" To: "Meteorite Mailing List" Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 4:53 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] HiRISE Camera Captures High-Resolution 3D Images of Mars > > > FROM: Lori Stiles (520-626-4402; lstiles at u.arizona.edu) > > HiRISE Camera Captures High-Resolution 3D Images of Mars > December 8, 2008 > > The High Resolution Science Imaging Experiment, or HiRISE, team based at > The > University of Arizona today released 362 three-dimensional images of Mars > taken > by the HiRISE camera on NASA's Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter. > > Other Mars-orbiting cameras have taken 3D views of Mars, but the HiRISE > camera > - the most powerful camera ever to orbit another planet - can resolve > features as small as one meter, or 40 inches, across. > > "It's really remarkable to see Martian rocks and features on the scale of > a > person in 3D," said Alfred McEwen of UA's Lunar and Planetary Laboratory, > HiRISE principal investigator. "The level of detail is just much, much > greater > than anything previously seen from orbit." > > The 3D images, or anaglyphs, can be viewed on the HiRISE Web site > (http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/anaglyph) with inexpensive color filter > glasses > commonly used for viewing 3D images and movies. The HiRISE Web site links > to > information on where to purchase and how to make 3D red-cyan filter > glasses. > Without 3D glasses, the Mars images appear out of register. > > (In Tucson, UA's Flandrau Science Center, 1601 E. University Blvd., and > Starizona, 5757 N. Oracle Road, sell red-cyan filter glasses for $2 each.) > > Seen in HiRISE 3D, Mars becomes a collection of deep panoramic views that > leap > out from the computer screen. > > "You'd swear you could touch the terrain," HiRISE operations manager Eric > Eliason said. > > Striking stereo views include: > > * Sixty-meter tall, or 200-foot-tall fractured mounds, probably composed > of > solidified lava, on the southern edge of Elysium Planitia. The fractured > surface suggests that lava pushed the surface into domes, uplifting some > sides > along the same fracture higher than others. > * Spectacular layers exposed on the floor about 2-and-a-half miles, or 4 > kilometers, below the rim of Candor Chasma, which is a large canyon in the > Valles Marineris system. The canyon may once have been filled to its rim > by > sedimentary layers of sand and dust-sized particles, but these have since > eroded, leaving patterns of elongated hills and layered terrain that has > been > turned and folded in many angles and directions. > * Groups of gullies at different elevations along the wall of an unnamed > crater > in Terra Cimmeria. The anaglyph image provides three-dimensional > perspective on > the depth of the gullies and the amount of material deposited below the > gullies. > Geological evidence suggests that the gullies may have formed by > subsurface > water, rather than by snow or ice melting on the surface. > > Other dramatic anaglyphs show a huge jumbled mass of rock that includes > megabreccia at a central peak in Ritchey crater, ejecta-formed channels > and > mudflows at Hale crater, tightly folded rock layers lining the floor of > Tithonium Chasm, "spiders" created by carbon dioxide venting through south > polar layered deposits, and Martian glacier flows. > > Eliason and the team at HiROC, the High Resolution Imaging Operations > Center on > the UA campus, began processing stereo images in October. They automated > some > of the software used in processing HiRISE images so two images of a stereo > pair > could be fed into the software "pipeline" and correlated automatically. > > "The real advance here is making this process semi-automated so we can > really > crank through all these huge images," McEwen said. Producing anaglyphs > from > stereo pairs is otherwise a tedious, time-consuming effort. > > The HiRISE camera has so far taken 950 stereo image pairs. The camera > features a > half-meter, or 20-inch, diameter primary mirror and a focal plane > mechanism that > can acquire up to a 3.6 megapixel image in about 11 seconds. > > The anaglyphs are among 1,642 observations containing 3.6 terabytes of > data and > 148,000 image products that HiRISE released today to the Planetary Data > System, > or the PDS, the NASA mission data archive. > > Since HiRISE began the science phase of its mission in November 2006, the > HiRISE > team has released a total 867,430 image products, or 30.2 terabytes of > data. > That is by far the greatest volume of data a space experiment has > delivered to > the PDS, and well more than twice the data volume some HiRISE team members > expected to get during the primary science phase. > > The HIRISE camera was designed to take images at high-convergence angles > so > researchers can calculate the thickness of surface features to within > about 10 > inches, or 25 centimeters. High-convergence angles used to get > quantitative > measurements aren't always best for making anaglyphs, McEwen said. > > In addition, if the two stereo images on two different orbits were taken > far > enough apart in time, the illumination or air opacity may have changed, or > frost or dust devils may have appeared in one of the images, so paired > images > don't always match that well, he added. > > "Nevertheless, many of these stereo anaglyphs are very interesting and > useful to > us in understanding the topography," McEwen said. > > "There's a lot of science to be done by just looking at these directly and > understanding what's up and what's down," he added. "Anaglyphs can > definitely > change how we interpret things, and help us focus on how to proceed when > it > comes to prioritizing some science tasks." > > Binocular vision gives humans wearing 3D color glasses the ability to see > anaglyphs in three dimensions the same way they see in three dimensions > through > a View-Master viewer or a Victorian-era stereoscope. The same scene is > viewed in > two pictures taken from slightly different angles. Each eye has its own > slightly > different view, which the brain fuses together into a single picture with > depth. > > With the colored glasses, the red filter for the left eye sees only red in > the > picture, the cyan filter for the right eye sees only blue-green in the > picture, > and the brain correlates the images. The glasses work for viewing stereo > pictures in print or on TV, movie and computer screens. > > The Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter is managed by the Jet Propulsion > Laboratory, > Pasadena, Calif., for NASA's Science Mission Directorate, Washington. > Lockheed > Martin Space Systems of Denver built the spacecraft. The UA operates the > HiRISE > camera, built by Ball Aerospace and Technologies Corp. of Boulder, Colo. > > SCIENCE CONTACTS: > Alfred McEwen (520-621-4573; mcewen at pirl.lpl.arizona.edu) > Eric Eliason (520-626-0764; eeliason at pirl.lpl.arizona.edu) > > WEB LINKS: > HiRISE: http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu > MRO: http://www.nasa.gov/mro > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com Mon Dec 8 18:56:14 2008 From: michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com (Michael Gilmer) Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 15:56:14 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD : A few of Roman's metal labels In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <916500.48549.qm@web58405.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi folks! I ordered a few too many display labels, so I want to pass these along to someone who can use them. These are the metal labels that Roman sells (meteorite-labels.com), and everyone knows what they look like, so I didn't take any pictures of them. These are brand new. Juvinas - unbent Gibeon - unbent Udei Station - bent UNWA - unclassified NWA label with blank to write in a classification number. (bent) How does $2.00 each shipped sound? Or all 4 for $7 shipped. (CONUS) (Overseas shipping will be extra) (*** PAYPAL ONLY ***) Regards and clear skies, MikeG ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale .......................................................... From STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com Mon Dec 8 19:18:10 2008 From: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com (STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com) Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 19:18:10 EST Subject: [meteorite-list] Polarizers way cheap! Big ones! Message-ID: Hi list, All my images involve polarizers in one way or an other and over the last couple years I have had many inquiries of where to get polarizers cheap. I haven't had a solution other than scrounge them at yard sales etc. I just found an eBay seller that has 82mm PL for $8.50. This is way cheap for these big ones. I bought a couple and they are quality made in Japan with total extinction. The eBay # is 170282710765 Normal retail on a polarizer this size is usually several times this price. They are linier polarizers and not circular polarizers which is perfect for meteorite Xpol application. Check out my Micro Vision article in the Jan 2007 Meteorite Times Cross titled Polarized Light Hand Sample Examination. The link is http://www.meteorite.com/meteorite-gallery/Micro_Visions.htm This will give you an idea of what polarizers can do in meteorite examination and you don't necessarily need a microscope. With two 82mm filters you could make a thin section viewing set. These are big enough for a standard microscope slide to fit inside the filter holder. I'm not selling any thing, I just thought some of you might like to know. Also, while you are at Meteorite Times, check out this months MV on NWA 3151 Brachinite. It has three killer shots from Bernd Pauli in wide field cross polarized light. Tom Phillips **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com Mon Dec 8 21:03:35 2008 From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold) Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 18:03:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] 9 holiday freebies Message-ID: <843145.97146.qm@web57804.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi list.Being sick all day has made me think all about the people who are less fortunate than me.This is the first time in my life I have come down with the flu.Well I decided that I would have a surprise holiday freebie givaway.I have 9 specimens to givaway.Some are pretty nice.The thing is,you have to wait to see what you get till it comes to you.I get to play santa.Also this is a one last only givaway.Just chime in and please give me your address.Happy holidays all. Steve R.Arnold,Chicago! http://chicagometeorites.net/ From epgrondine at yahoo.com Mon Dec 8 21:34:32 2008 From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine) Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 18:34:32 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Hey folks Message-ID: <324039.66276.qm@web36908.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi everyone - Every day when I go to www.spacer.com for space news, I see these adds for Moondust pens containing real SIMULATED Moon dust. If any of you people saved your lunar cuttings, then it would strike me that this is wide open for you. Good luck and Good hunting, E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas PS - Probably a few years from now someone will have little flat panels with the Peekskill fall video, with a piece of Peekskill mounted next to it. From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com Mon Dec 8 22:38:58 2008 From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold) Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 19:38:58 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] thats all folks Message-ID: <160232.85770.qm@web57808.mail.re3.yahoo.com> All 9 are gone.It is amazing when I have a freebie session how many emails I get.I have 40 just on the first one.Happy holidays all.All of them will go out on thursday. Steve R.Arnold,Chicago! http://chicagometeorites.net/ From rsvp321 at hotmail.com Tue Dec 9 03:41:31 2008 From: rsvp321 at hotmail.com (Pete Pete) Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 03:41:31 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] HiRISE Camera Captures High-Resolution 3D Images of Mars In-Reply-To: <46A8EB4786E246CFABC9F122F077829D@ASUS> References: <200812082153.NAA28811@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> <46A8EB4786E246CFABC9F122F077829D@ASUS> Message-ID: Billions and billions of craters! http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/anaglyph/singula.php?ID=PSP_001586_1565 http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/anaglyph/singula.php?ID=PSP_001586_1565 > Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 18:32:54 -0500 > From: grf2 at verizon.net > To: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] HiRISE Camera Captures High-Resolution 3D Images of Mars > > These images are truly spectacular. My $11 3D glasses just proved their > worth. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ron Baalke" > To: "Meteorite Mailing List" > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 4:53 PM > Subject: [meteorite-list] HiRISE Camera Captures High-Resolution 3D Images > of Mars > > >> >> >> FROM: Lori Stiles (520-626-4402; lstiles at u.arizona.edu) >> >> HiRISE Camera Captures High-Resolution 3D Images of Mars >> December 8, 2008 >> >> The High Resolution Science Imaging Experiment, or HiRISE, team based at >> The >> University of Arizona today released 362 three-dimensional images of Mars >> taken >> by the HiRISE camera on NASA's Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter. >> >> Other Mars-orbiting cameras have taken 3D views of Mars, but the HiRISE >> camera >> - the most powerful camera ever to orbit another planet - can resolve >> features as small as one meter, or 40 inches, across. >> >> "It's really remarkable to see Martian rocks and features on the scale of >> a >> person in 3D," said Alfred McEwen of UA's Lunar and Planetary Laboratory, >> HiRISE principal investigator. "The level of detail is just much, much >> greater >> than anything previously seen from orbit." >> >> The 3D images, or anaglyphs, can be viewed on the HiRISE Web site >> (http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/anaglyph) with inexpensive color filter >> glasses >> commonly used for viewing 3D images and movies. The HiRISE Web site links >> to >> information on where to purchase and how to make 3D red-cyan filter >> glasses. >> Without 3D glasses, the Mars images appear out of register. >> >> (In Tucson, UA's Flandrau Science Center, 1601 E. University Blvd., and >> Starizona, 5757 N. Oracle Road, sell red-cyan filter glasses for $2 each.) >> >> Seen in HiRISE 3D, Mars becomes a collection of deep panoramic views that >> leap >> out from the computer screen. >> >> "You'd swear you could touch the terrain," HiRISE operations manager Eric >> Eliason said. >> >> Striking stereo views include: >> >> * Sixty-meter tall, or 200-foot-tall fractured mounds, probably composed >> of >> solidified lava, on the southern edge of Elysium Planitia. The fractured >> surface suggests that lava pushed the surface into domes, uplifting some >> sides >> along the same fracture higher than others. >> * Spectacular layers exposed on the floor about 2-and-a-half miles, or 4 >> kilometers, below the rim of Candor Chasma, which is a large canyon in the >> Valles Marineris system. The canyon may once have been filled to its rim >> by >> sedimentary layers of sand and dust-sized particles, but these have since >> eroded, leaving patterns of elongated hills and layered terrain that has >> been >> turned and folded in many angles and directions. >> * Groups of gullies at different elevations along the wall of an unnamed >> crater >> in Terra Cimmeria. The anaglyph image provides three-dimensional >> perspective on >> the depth of the gullies and the amount of material deposited below the >> gullies. >> Geological evidence suggests that the gullies may have formed by >> subsurface >> water, rather than by snow or ice melting on the surface. >> >> Other dramatic anaglyphs show a huge jumbled mass of rock that includes >> megabreccia at a central peak in Ritchey crater, ejecta-formed channels >> and >> mudflows at Hale crater, tightly folded rock layers lining the floor of >> Tithonium Chasm, "spiders" created by carbon dioxide venting through south >> polar layered deposits, and Martian glacier flows. >> >> Eliason and the team at HiROC, the High Resolution Imaging Operations >> Center on >> the UA campus, began processing stereo images in October. They automated >> some >> of the software used in processing HiRISE images so two images of a stereo >> pair >> could be fed into the software "pipeline" and correlated automatically. >> >> "The real advance here is making this process semi-automated so we can >> really >> crank through all these huge images," McEwen said. Producing anaglyphs >> from >> stereo pairs is otherwise a tedious, time-consuming effort. >> >> The HiRISE camera has so far taken 950 stereo image pairs. The camera >> features a >> half-meter, or 20-inch, diameter primary mirror and a focal plane >> mechanism that >> can acquire up to a 3.6 megapixel image in about 11 seconds. >> >> The anaglyphs are among 1,642 observations containing 3.6 terabytes of >> data and >> 148,000 image products that HiRISE released today to the Planetary Data >> System, >> or the PDS, the NASA mission data archive. >> >> Since HiRISE began the science phase of its mission in November 2006, the >> HiRISE >> team has released a total 867,430 image products, or 30.2 terabytes of >> data. >> That is by far the greatest volume of data a space experiment has >> delivered to >> the PDS, and well more than twice the data volume some HiRISE team members >> expected to get during the primary science phase. >> >> The HIRISE camera was designed to take images at high-convergence angles >> so >> researchers can calculate the thickness of surface features to within >> about 10 >> inches, or 25 centimeters. High-convergence angles used to get >> quantitative >> measurements aren't always best for making anaglyphs, McEwen said. >> >> In addition, if the two stereo images on two different orbits were taken >> far >> enough apart in time, the illumination or air opacity may have changed, or >> frost or dust devils may have appeared in one of the images, so paired >> images >> don't always match that well, he added. >> >> "Nevertheless, many of these stereo anaglyphs are very interesting and >> useful to >> us in understanding the topography," McEwen said. >> >> "There's a lot of science to be done by just looking at these directly and >> understanding what's up and what's down," he added. "Anaglyphs can >> definitely >> change how we interpret things, and help us focus on how to proceed when >> it >> comes to prioritizing some science tasks." >> >> Binocular vision gives humans wearing 3D color glasses the ability to see >> anaglyphs in three dimensions the same way they see in three dimensions >> through >> a View-Master viewer or a Victorian-era stereoscope. The same scene is >> viewed in >> two pictures taken from slightly different angles. Each eye has its own >> slightly >> different view, which the brain fuses together into a single picture with >> depth. >> >> With the colored glasses, the red filter for the left eye sees only red in >> the >> picture, the cyan filter for the right eye sees only blue-green in the >> picture, >> and the brain correlates the images. The glasses work for viewing stereo >> pictures in print or on TV, movie and computer screens. >> >> The Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter is managed by the Jet Propulsion >> Laboratory, >> Pasadena, Calif., for NASA's Science Mission Directorate, Washington. >> Lockheed >> Martin Space Systems of Denver built the spacecraft. The UA operates the >> HiRISE >> camera, built by Ball Aerospace and Technologies Corp. of Boulder, Colo. >> >> SCIENCE CONTACTS: >> Alfred McEwen (520-621-4573; mcewen at pirl.lpl.arizona.edu) >> Eric Eliason (520-626-0764; eeliason at pirl.lpl.arizona.edu) >> >> WEB LINKS: >> HiRISE: http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu >> MRO: http://www.nasa.gov/mro >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _________________________________________________________________ From michael at spacerocksinc.com Tue Dec 9 06:01:42 2008 From: michael at spacerocksinc.com (Michael Johnson) Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 03:01:42 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December 9, 2008 Message-ID: <24457198.2400731228820502965.JavaMail.root@mbs4.homesteadmail.com> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/December_9_2008.html From mlblood at cox.net Tue Dec 9 06:54:18 2008 From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael L Blood) Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2008 03:54:18 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] No wonder Bonhams was a bust In-Reply-To: <102323.8014.qm@web58401.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Mike and all, So far there are no minimum bids on ANY of the entries in The 10th annual Tucson Meteorite Auction. Thanks to Anne Black, there are now about 50 items and I Think another source is providing an additional 20 or so items. So, even though listings are behind schedule, all photos should be Up within the next 24 hrs or so and absentee bids are encouraged. I have decided to drop absentee bidding fees to the lowest level Possible, so, if you can't make it to the Show you can still bid on The items. "No minimum" means NO minimum - there will not be Any pulling of an item "because of lack of interest" or "no heat." You never know what bid might win and it doesn't cost you anything To place absentee bids that do not win the bid. Check it all out here: http://michaelbloodmeteorites.com/AuctionTucson09.html Best wishes, Michael on 12/8/08 7:26 AM, Michael Gilmer at michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com wrote: > "No, buyers' premium was 20% and California sales tax (without a resale > number) is 8%. > ...So add 28%" > Jason > > ---- > > There you have your answer, in part. Add 28% means subtract 50% of > the potential bidders, including me. I watched that auction, and > was scared away from bidding by the man in a black ski-mask and a > Bonham's jacket on. Call me naive, but tacking on an extra 30% after > the gavel (almost) is highway robbery. And I thought eBay fees were > ridiculous. I guess I'll never bid on a Bonham's auction. No offense > to Mike or any of the other sellers who got hosed, but you couldn't put > a gun to my head and make me give my stuff away like that and then > pay through the wazoo to do it. No thanks. > > Better luck next time, > > MikeG > > > ......................................................... > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com > MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale > .......................................................... > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mark.ford at ssl.gb.com Tue Dec 9 07:43:16 2008 From: mark.ford at ssl.gb.com (Mark Ford) Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 12:43:16 -0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] Hey folks In-Reply-To: <324039.66276.qm@web36908.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <324039.66276.qm@web36908.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <29A9DB45B84970458190D7D39BD42C49468240@gamma.ssl.atw> >>PS - Probably a few years from now someone will have little flat panels with the Peekskill fall video, with a piece of >>Peekskill mounted next to it. Already done! I used a stripped down key ring LCD photo viewer loaded with impact pics - fits inside a Riker mount. Only problem is they eat power and need recharging every few days but you could use a mains adaptor of course. Best Mark -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of E.P. Grondine Sent: 09 December 2008 02:35 To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Hey folks Hi everyone - Every day when I go to www.spacer.com for space news, I see these adds for Moondust pens containing real SIMULATED Moon dust. If any of you people saved your lunar cuttings, then it would strike me that this is wide open for you. Good luck and Good hunting, E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas PS - Probably a few years from now someone will have little flat panels with the Peekskill fall video, with a piece of Peekskill mounted next to it. ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us. Email info at ssl.gb.com. You should not copy or use this email or attachment(s) for any purpose nor disclose their contents to any other person. GENERAL STATEMENT: Southern Scientific Ltd's computer systems may be monitored and communications carried on them recorded, to secure the effective operation of the system and for other lawful purposes. Registered address Rectory Farm Rd, Sompting, Lancing, W Sussex BN15 0DP. Company No 1800317 From claudiu at tanaselia.ro Tue Dec 9 08:09:02 2008 From: claudiu at tanaselia.ro (Claudiu Tanaselia) Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 15:09:02 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December 9, 2008 In-Reply-To: <24457198.2400731228820502965.JavaMail.root@mbs4.homesteadmail.com> References: <24457198.2400731228820502965.JavaMail.root@mbs4.homesteadmail.com> Message-ID: Hello, Do you happen to know who has this piece of meteorite now? Thank you, Claudiu. On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 1:01 PM, Michael Johnson wrote: > http://www.rocksfromspace.org/December_9_2008.html > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Tue Dec 9 12:18:46 2008 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 09 Dec 2008 17:18:46 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December 9, 2008 Message-ID: Hi Michael, Matt, and List, http://www.rocksfromspace.org/December_9_2008.html MICHEL-LEVY M.C. (1988) A new component of the Mez?-Madaras breccia: A microchondrule- and carbon-bearing L-related chondrite (Meteoritics 23-1, 1988, 45-48): Introduction (excerpt): The Mez?-Madaras L3 chondrite breccia is well known for its numerous inclusions (xenoliths, clasts, lumps, .) . as well as for some highly unequilibrated mineral associations which have been discovered in it: merrihueite* and "ferric" silicates, cristobalite or trydimite, olivines and pyroxenes. These are present in the host also called "normal Mez?-Madaras", in which many glass-rich chondrules are found. Most of the inclusions are of L4-5 types, similar to the host so that Binn calls them "cognate xenoliths". Some other inclusions are black . [In] the black inclusion studied here . carbon is present, but the bulk analysis does not allow us to classify it with the major carbonaceous chondrite groups. * Formula: (K,Na)2(Fe,Mg)5Si12O30 Conclusion (excerpt): Among the various components of the Mez?-Madaras chondrite, a carbon-bearing material, different from the known classes of carbonaceous chondrites, is dispersed through the whole stone and has been found in a large lump. Best wishes, Bernd To: michael at spacerocksinc.com meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com Tue Dec 9 13:55:34 2008 From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold) Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 10:55:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] (AD) SIKOTE-ALINS W/HOLES Message-ID: <503257.45008.qm@web57805.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi list.I have 2 small sikote-alin with holes.$75 will take them home.Pics upon request. Steve R.Arnold,Chicago! http://chicagometeorites.net/ From raremeteorites at yahoo.com Tue Dec 9 15:52:13 2008 From: raremeteorites at yahoo.com (Adam Hupe) Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 12:52:13 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Copy - A Form of Flattery? Message-ID: <689312.56832.qm@web30708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Talking about copying other peoples' hard work. Too bad this display was not built to aerospace standards and looks tacky in comparison to the piece we comissioned for NWA 5000. http://www.nyrockman.com/pages/nwa2656.htm Nobody ever accused the Langs having good taste or professional ethics. Best Regards, Adam From mccartney at blackbearddata.com Tue Dec 9 16:47:06 2008 From: mccartney at blackbearddata.com (McCartney Taylor) Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2008 15:47:06 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Non Canadians must wait! Message-ID: <1228859226.13616.9.camel@Game-machine> Sonny and I are still getting many emails asking for Lone Rock material from non Canadians. We did follow the laws on this one, we turned it all over to our Canadian handler. Paperwork is being submitted very soon. Please wait 3-6 months. From saharagems at yahoo.com Tue Dec 9 16:50:44 2008 From: saharagems at yahoo.com (Stalder Thomas) Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 13:50:44 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Aluminium 1 cm scale cubes and Desert Glass Message-ID: <608931.79702.qm@web44913.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Dear List, I have some auctions running on Ebay ending coming Saturday. All still at 99 cents. Next to some very nice GEM quality LDG pieces (two rare ones with natural holes) I'm offering 3 handmade Aluminium scale cubes (Buy it now USD 38.-- / shipping worldwide for free). You may like to upgrade yours from plastic to aluminium. Please take a look if interested. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=220327169610 Thanks. Thomas at saharagems From scyphocrinites at yahoo.com Tue Dec 9 17:09:22 2008 From: scyphocrinites at yahoo.com (Malek Youssef) Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 14:09:22 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad : Cut and polished Chnondrites Message-ID: <1282.93758.qm@web53311.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi List I have Handly cut and polished Chondrites available : http://www.geocities.com/fourmanmine30/mt.htm M.Youssef From yellowengine at earthlink.net Tue Dec 9 17:21:24 2008 From: yellowengine at earthlink.net (RJP) Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 16:21:24 -0600 (GMT-06:00) Subject: [meteorite-list] Canadian Material for Americans has to wait Message-ID: <13520720.1228861285053.JavaMail.root@elwamui-sweet.atl.sa.earthlink.net> McCartney and Sonny.. I am sorry to hear that some people either can't, or simply choose not to follow simple orders. And yes, they do have laws... Mr. Garrison. Ryan "Sonny and I are still getting many emails asking for Lone Rock material from non Canadians. We did follow the laws on this one, we turned it all over to our Canadian handler. Paperwork is being submitted very soon. Please wait 3-6 months." From tett at rogers.com Tue Dec 9 18:29:40 2008 From: tett at rogers.com (tett) Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 18:29:40 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Non Canadians must wait! References: <1228859226.13616.9.camel@Game-machine> Message-ID: <852E0DEC26CD43028848CE3065B53896@tett1> Proud to be Canadian! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWDXE9Pbjic And new stones available to bout! You can just smell them heh! Cheers, tett ----- Original Message ----- From: "McCartney Taylor" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 4:47 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Non Canadians must wait! > Sonny and I are still getting many emails asking for Lone Rock material > from non Canadians. > > We did follow the laws on this one, we turned it all over to our > Canadian handler. Paperwork is being submitted very soon. > > Please wait 3-6 months. > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com Tue Dec 9 23:20:51 2008 From: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com (STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com) Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 23:20:51 EST Subject: [meteorite-list] Martin Horejsi's The Accretion Desk Souslovo, Russia Message-ID: Every one who has not checked out Martin's article in December Meteorite Times is missing out on a way cool article. I had never heard the term "Tool Box Meteorite". It that a Martin original??? Anyway, It's got it all, great photos, cool story and a wonderful meteorite. Thanks Martin! http://www.meteorite-times.com/meteorite_frame.htm Tom Phillips **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) From illaenus at wp.pl Wed Dec 10 05:16:54 2008 From: illaenus at wp.pl (Tomasz Jakubowski) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 11:16:54 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD Berduc Message-ID: <493f9716552701.85357978@wp.pl> Hello! I hale nice Berduc for sale. Specimen have 108.8 grams, 90% fusion crust, oriented (flow lines, rollover lips). http://picasaweb.google.pl/illaenus/Berduc1088GOriented# I have more meteorites for sale on my Picassa web page. Please write to illaenus at gmail.com Kind Regards Tomasz Jakubowski IMCA #2321 -- Free Tibet ---------------------------------------------------- Co to by? za GOOOOOOOOOL! Cykn??e? tak? akcj?? Wrzu? foty na http://klik.wp.pl/?adr=http%3A%2F%2Fpikeo.pl&sid=578 From michael at spacerocksinc.com Wed Dec 10 06:54:43 2008 From: michael at spacerocksinc.com (Michael Johnson) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 03:54:43 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December 10, 2008 Message-ID: <4757109.2524261228910083621.JavaMail.root@mbs4.homesteadmail.com> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/December_10_2008.html From meteoriteshow at free.fr Wed Dec 10 07:49:56 2008 From: meteoriteshow at free.fr (meteoriteshow at free.fr) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 13:49:56 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - ebay Auctions ending on Saturday Message-ID: <1228913396.493fbaf44afbb@imp.free.fr> Dear All, Christmas is coming soon and the best way to make sure that you will have at least on gift that you will really enjoy is to get it yourself!!! (LOL!) Then why not a meteorite???... This Saturday our current auctions will end and you can see the meteorites that are offered at: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZmeteoriteshow You will then see: 1- CHERGACH H5 - 45.7g frag. - WITNESSED FALL! http://cgi.ebay.fr/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=330291034013 2- HaH299 H6 - 2.2g endpiece, still at starting price... http://cgi.ebay.fr/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=330291034054 3- NWA XXX - 1.8g Partslice - HOWARDITE: I just got some first inofrmation about its classification, which confirmed to be a Howardite, and Jean-Alix Barrat who is doing it and has been working on many other howardites told me that it does not seem to be paired to any other howardite that he had the chance to analyse... Some further results are still pending but he should get them soon and then submit it to the Nom. Com. http://cgi.ebay.fr/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=330291034091 4- ORIENTED NWA OC - FUSION CRUST - 62.4g indiv (unclassified) http://cgi.ebay.fr/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=330291034156 5- SAH 02500 L3 - 520g fragment http://cgi.ebay.fr/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=330291034180 6- SAH 02501 EUC - 0.6g partslice, still at starting price... http://cgi.ebay.fr/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=330291034231 7- ZAG H3-6 - 12.4g frag. - WITNESSED FALL!, still at starting price... http://cgi.ebay.fr/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=330291034261 Thanks for looking and good luck!!! Kind regards Frederic Beroud www.meteoriteshow.com IMCA #2491 From mlblood at cox.net Wed Dec 10 08:05:29 2008 From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael L Blood) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 05:05:29 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] L3 ad In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi all, A remarkable L3 meteorite came out of the Sahara recently. At Just under 2Kg TKW all but the 3 full slices below has gone into Institutions and private collections in Europe. See all photos at: http://cards.webshots.com/ecard/pickup/144799871kAsfjt NWA 5477 Sahara Morocco 2008 TKW: 1,960g Number of pieces: 2 Class: L3 Shock Stage: S4 Weathering Grade: W1 Fa mol%: 1.5-24.5 Fs mol%: 1.1-35.1 Type specimen: 22g At MNB Berlin. This is CHONDRAL CITY - it doesn't get any better than this. Nothing but chondrules! Nice, hard material - each are thinly and nicely parallel cut full slices with dark fusion crust all around the outside. This is one of those rare A+++++ quality specimens you will enjoy permanently, as it just Doesn't get any better than this. For list members, $15/g - PayPal preferred, but not required. First 3 to contact take them. (please list 1st, 2nd and 3rd choice - provide address for full quote (shipping is actual cost - Priority Mail in the US, Registered Outside the US). Anyone not able to get to the link to see these killer photos, let me know and I will email you attached jpgs. Absolutely killer stuff: 24.940g Full Slice, 74 x 43 x 2.9 mm = $374- 23.887g Full Slice, 74 x 40 x 2.8 mm = $358- 14.109g Full Slice, 68 x 46 x 2.5 mm = $211- See all photos at: http://cards.webshots.com/ecard/pickup/144799871kAsfjt Best wishes, Michael From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com Wed Dec 10 08:15:55 2008 From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 05:15:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] (AD) NWA 4024 Message-ID: <501731.17748.qm@web57802.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi list.It seems other people like to place more than 1 ad per week,but I apoligize.I should of had this in my sa email.I have a 2.5 gram endcut of nwa 4024 for sale.tkw is only 500 grams and is classified as an winonaite.$125 will take it home.For further info please visit mike farmers website for full details. Steve R.Arnold,Chicago! http://chicagometeorites.net/ From grf2 at verizon.net Wed Dec 10 11:41:51 2008 From: grf2 at verizon.net (Jerry Flaherty) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 11:41:51 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Is this a fair price and reputable source for Trinitite? Message-ID: <21B6131D02FA40F5BE4500E3E928ED0B@ASUS> http://www.unitednuclear.com/trinititenew.htm Jerry Flaherty From freequarks at gmail.com Wed Dec 10 11:45:51 2008 From: freequarks at gmail.com (Dark Matter) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 09:45:51 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Martin Horejsi's The Accretion Desk Souslovo, Russia In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <822da19a0812100845y2eee5871r5e8994f777978061@mail.gmail.com> Hi Tom, Thanks for reading it. Normally I pass on recent finds for my collection, but the shape and story of Souslovo was too good to skip. I made up the term "Toolbox Meteorite" (not to be confused with NASA's Toolkit "Meteorite" that should be arriving any time now). I needed a name for meteorites that are used as tools, whether doorstops, paperweights, or wheelchocks prior to entering our collection. However, I have seen a few continue on as tools even after entered into a meteorite collection catalog, usually in the role of a doorstop. Tom, I wish I still lived close to you. I think you would have a blast scoping Souslovo with all its chondritic oddities. Best, Martin On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 9:20 PM, wrote: > Every one who has not checked out Martin's article in December Meteorite > Times is missing out on a way cool article. I had never heard the term "Tool > Box Meteorite". It that a Martin original??? > > Anyway, It's got it all, great photos, cool story and a wonderful > meteorite. Thanks Martin! > > http://www.meteorite-times.com/meteorite_frame.htm > > Tom Phillips > > **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and > favorite sites in one place. Try it now. > (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From fuzzfoot at comcast.net Wed Dec 10 12:08:34 2008 From: fuzzfoot at comcast.net (Mike Bandli) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 17:08:34 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [meteorite-list] Toolbox Meteorite In-Reply-To: <822da19a0812100845y2eee5871r5e8994f777978061@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1870496479.2562821228928914923.JavaMail.root@sz0063a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Martin and All, I never considered the 'Toolbox' sub-genre of meteorites. Very well done and interesting! Though not a historical one, one of my favorite 'Toolbox' meteorites is Mike Jensen's Sikhote Alin beer bottle opener. I always search the bins in Tucson for one, but I think Mike Jensen holds the only one in existence. It also allows one to employ the ultimate geek pick-up line: "Excuse me, Miss, allow me to open that Coors Light with my meteorite for you." Best, Mike Bandli ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dark Matter" To: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 8:45:51 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Martin Horejsi's The Accretion Desk Souslovo, Russia Hi Tom, Thanks for reading it. Normally I pass on recent finds for my collection, but the shape and story of Souslovo was too good to skip. I made up the term "Toolbox Meteorite" (not to be confused with NASA's Toolkit "Meteorite" that should be arriving any time now). I needed a name for meteorites that are used as tools, whether doorstops, paperweights, or wheelchocks prior to entering our collection. However, I have seen a few continue on as tools even after entered into a meteorite collection catalog, usually in the role of a doorstop. Tom, I wish I still lived close to you. I think you would have a blast scoping Souslovo with all its chondritic oddities. Best, Martin On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 9:20 PM, wrote: > Every one who has not checked out Martin's article in December Meteorite > Times is missing out on a way cool article. I had never heard the term "Tool > Box Meteorite". It that a Martin original??? > > Anyway, It's got it all, great photos, cool story and a wonderful > meteorite. Thanks Martin! > > http://www.meteorite-times.com/meteorite_frame.htm > > Tom Phillips > > **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and > favorite sites in one place. Try it now. > (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com Wed Dec 10 12:17:51 2008 From: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com (STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 12:17:51 EST Subject: [meteorite-list] Martin Horejsi's The Accretion Desk Souslovo, Russia Message-ID: OK meteorite fans, I have seen a list of "Hammer Stones" , how about "Toolbox meteorites"? I'll start with the easiest one, The Tucson Ring which was used as an anvil. Years from now I hope people remember it was Martin who came up with the term and knowing Martin, it won't be long before he has amassed a killer Toolbox meteorite collection. Also, yes Martin, I would have a blast with the Souslovo but your slice is to big for me to get on the polish equipment. Tom Phillips In a message dated 12/10/2008 9:46:26 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, freequarks at gmail.com writes: Hi Tom, Thanks for reading it. Normally I pass on recent finds for my collection, but the shape and story of Souslovo was too good to skip. I made up the term "Toolbox Meteorite" (not to be confused with NASA's Toolkit "Meteorite" that should be arriving any time now). I needed a name for meteorites that are used as tools, whether doorstops, paperweights, or wheelchocks prior to entering our collection. However, I have seen a few continue on as tools even after entered into a meteorite collection catalog, usually in the role of a doorstop. Tom, I wish I still lived close to you. I think you would have a blast scoping Souslovo with all its chondritic oddities. Best, Martin On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 9:20 PM, wrote: > Every one who has not checked out Martin's article in December Meteorite > Times is missing out on a way cool article. I had never heard the term "Tool > Box Meteorite". It that a Martin original??? > > Anyway, It's got it all, great photos, cool story and a wonderful > meteorite. Thanks Martin! > > http://www.meteorite-times.com/meteorite_frame.htm > > Tom Phillips > > **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and > favorite sites in one place. Try it now. > (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) From bolidechaser at yahoo.com Wed Dec 10 12:20:13 2008 From: bolidechaser at yahoo.com (Robert Verish) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 09:20:13 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Dear Santa - NWA 400 Message-ID: <34072.89519.qm@web51703.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Looking for a specimen of NWA 400 (yes, NWA Four Hundred - that's not a typo). Wondering if anyone has this in their collection and would be willing to sell some or make a trade. Any size or shape would do. Would need to know provenance, too, meaning - which collection, dealer, importer, or vendor was it obtained. No, just saying that it came from Santa won't suffice. ;-) Bob V . From pshugar at clearwire.net Wed Dec 10 13:15:49 2008 From: pshugar at clearwire.net (Pete Shugar) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 12:15:49 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Is this a fair price and reputable source forTrinitite? References: <21B6131D02FA40F5BE4500E3E928ED0B@ASUS> Message-ID: <002301c95af3$5a5d8180$d0e11960@laptop> Althou the price is on the high side, (about 30% too high) you need to remember that they need to pay for that $50,000 mass spectrometer----heehee. Pete From Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr Wed Dec 10 14:21:20 2008 From: Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr (Zelimir Gabelica) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 20:21:20 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Toolbox Meteorite In-Reply-To: <1870496479.2562821228928914923.JavaMail.root@sz0063a.emery ville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <822da19a0812100845y2eee5871r5e8994f777978061@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20081210200944.02b1d568@pop.univ-mulhouse.fr> Mike, if you are anxious to open more Coors for your Miss-friends, I can show you a 196 g complete NWA Howardite as bottle-opener. So far unclassified, but a cut window certifies its most probable howardite satus, while the opposite crusted side shows some "knob" that could readily be used to extract bottle seals. I am ready to send a couple of pics if someone can host them on a web site. Zelimir A 17:08 10/12/2008 +0000, Mike Bandli a ?crit : >Martin and All, > >I never considered the 'Toolbox' sub-genre of meteorites. Very well done >and interesting! > >Though not a historical one, one of my favorite 'Toolbox' meteorites is >Mike Jensen's Sikhote Alin beer bottle opener. I always search the bins in >Tucson for one, but I think Mike Jensen holds the only one in existence. >It also allows one to employ the ultimate geek pick-up line: "Excuse me, >Miss, allow me to open that Coors Light with my meteorite for you." > >Best, > >Mike Bandli Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Universit? de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 From freequarks at gmail.com Wed Dec 10 14:33:00 2008 From: freequarks at gmail.com (Dark Matter) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 12:33:00 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Toolbox Meteorite In-Reply-To: <1870496479.2562821228928914923.JavaMail.root@sz0063a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <822da19a0812100845y2eee5871r5e8994f777978061@mail.gmail.com> <1870496479.2562821228928914923.JavaMail.root@sz0063a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <822da19a0812101133w4105bb32p582769a52beb7ead@mail.gmail.com> Hi Mike, I'd love to see a pic of Mike's beer bottle opener. Now you've got me curious. I have some SA individuals around here that are about the right size. I'm going to grab a six-pack and see if I can find an opener. I remember showing this meteorite ( http://www.meteorite-times.com/Back_Links/2006/March/s-a2b.jpg ) to a friend at the Tucson Show and she said something like, "Oh, that would make a nice hook. It could go on your wall and you could hang your coat on it." I guess that would make it a toolbox meteorite as well (;- ) -Martin On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 10:08 AM, Mike Bandli wrote: > Martin and All, > > I never considered the 'Toolbox' sub-genre of meteorites. Very well done and interesting! > > Though not a historical one, one of my favorite 'Toolbox' meteorites is Mike Jensen's Sikhote Alin beer bottle opener. I always search the bins in Tucson for one, but I think Mike Jensen holds the only one in existence. It also allows one to employ the ultimate geek pick-up line: "Excuse me, Miss, allow me to open that Coors Light with my meteorite for you." > > Best, > > Mike Bandli > From fuzzfoot at comcast.net Wed Dec 10 14:56:58 2008 From: fuzzfoot at comcast.net (Mike Bandli) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 19:56:58 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [meteorite-list] Toolbox Meteorite In-Reply-To: <822da19a0812101133w4105bb32p582769a52beb7ead@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <129254617.2595031228939018316.JavaMail.root@sz0063a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Re: Mike Jensen's Bottle Opener It's gone from his site, but you can still see it via the Way Back Machine here (scroll all the way to the bottom of the page): http://web.archive.org/web/20070728160656/jensenmeteorites.com/Sikhote.htm Cheers, Mike Bandli ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dark Matter" To: "Mike Bandli" Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 11:33:00 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Toolbox Meteorite Hi Mike, I'd love to see a pic of Mike's beer bottle opener. Now you've got me curious. I have some SA individuals around here that are about the right size. I'm going to grab a six-pack and see if I can find an opener. I remember showing this meteorite ( http://www.meteorite-times.com/Back_Links/2006/March/s-a2b.jpg ) to a friend at the Tucson Show and she said something like, "Oh, that would make a nice hook. It could go on your wall and you could hang your coat on it." I guess that would make it a toolbox meteorite as well (;- ) -Martin On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 10:08 AM, Mike Bandli wrote: > Martin and All, > > I never considered the 'Toolbox' sub-genre of meteorites. Very well done and interesting! > > Though not a historical one, one of my favorite 'Toolbox' meteorites is Mike Jensen's Sikhote Alin beer bottle opener. I always search the bins in Tucson for one, but I think Mike Jensen holds the only one in existence. It also allows one to employ the ultimate geek pick-up line: "Excuse me, Miss, allow me to open that Coors Light with my meteorite for you." > > Best, > > Mike Bandli > From yellowengine at earthlink.net Wed Dec 10 15:15:34 2008 From: yellowengine at earthlink.net (RJP) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 14:15:34 -0600 (GMT-06:00) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Collection Pieces - Photos Message-ID: <29972938.1228940135351.JavaMail.root@elwamui-muscovy.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Hello Again, I have received several requests for photos, so I decided to post them for everyone to view at leisure. http://outdoors.webshots.com/album/569165160RMTnOx If anyone needs additional photos or an answer to a question regarding these pieces, just let me know! Cheers, Ryan Pawelski -----Forwarded Message----- >From: RJP >Sent: Dec 8, 2008 1:50 PM >To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >Subject: AD: Collection Pieces > >Good Afternoon, > >I have a few pieces from my collection that I would like to sell. Very little to zero profit on these. > > >Photos upon request: > >Bremham (Pal) - 195g "palm size" full slice (thin). $780 > >Gibeon - 460g etched full slice. $575 > >Millbillillie - 212g complete stone, "a grade". $2,120 > > >I will cover domestic postage, and I do accept Paypal for those who prefer to go that route instead. > > >Cheers, > >Ryan Pawelski > > > > > > > From Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr Wed Dec 10 15:17:11 2008 From: Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr (Zelimir Gabelica) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 21:17:11 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Toolbox Meteorite In-Reply-To: <149003279.2595661228939229800.JavaMail.root@sz0063a.emeryv ille.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <5.0.2.1.2.20081210200944.02b1d568@pop.univ-mulhouse.fr> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20081210211258.029e4d48@pop.univ-mulhouse.fr> Hi MIke, 2 pics just sent to Anne Black, who was the first to offer her web site. Keep tuned. best, Zelimir NB: bottle-opener not as nice as yours (S-A is the probably the "king" for "toolboxes") but still suggestive, even though the pic does show the "knob" under its best profile... A 20:00 10/12/2008 +0000, Mike Bandli a ?crit : >Hello Zelimir, > >Please send some photos! I would love to see! > >Best, > >Mike Bandli > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Zelimir Gabelica" >To: "Mike Bandli" , meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >Cc: "Zelimir Gabelica" >Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 11:21:20 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific >Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Toolbox Meteorite > >Mike, if you are anxious to open more Coors for your Miss-friends, I can >show you a 196 g complete NWA Howardite as bottle-opener. So far >unclassified, but a cut window certifies its most probable howardite satus, >while the opposite crusted side shows some "knob" that could readily be >used to extract bottle seals. > >I am ready to send a couple of pics if someone can host them on a web site. > >Zelimir > > >A 17:08 10/12/2008 +0000, Mike Bandli a ??crit : > >Martin and All, > > > >I never considered the 'Toolbox' sub-genre of meteorites. Very well done > >and interesting! > > > >Though not a historical one, one of my favorite 'Toolbox' meteorites is > >Mike Jensen's Sikhote Alin beer bottle opener. I always search the bins in > >Tucson for one, but I think Mike Jensen holds the only one in existence. > >It also allows one to employ the ultimate geek pick-up line: "Excuse me, > >Miss, allow me to open that Coors Light with my meteorite for you." > > > >Best, > > > >Mike Bandli > >Prof. Zelimir Gabelica >Universit?? de Haute Alsace >ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, >3, Rue A. Werner, >F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France >Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 >Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Universit? de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 From azizhabibi at yahoo.com Wed Dec 10 15:28:34 2008 From: azizhabibi at yahoo.com (habibi abdelaziz) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 12:28:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] photo of the new R3 Message-ID: <621299.54401.qm@web62005.mail.re1.yahoo.com> hi all ?i hope everyone is enjoying holidays? , we have holidays over here in nwa, well i was?amazed by the beauty of the slice that Micheal blood showed just now , this l3. and i want to show you this new R 3? ????its on hold? but give a look , just nice; enjoy. ? http://www.flickr.com/photos/azizhabibi/ all the best aziz habibi ? habibi aziz box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco phone. 21235576145 fax.21235576170 From almitt at kconline.com Wed Dec 10 15:39:04 2008 From: almitt at kconline.com (al mitterling) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 15:39:04 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Toolbox Meteorite In-Reply-To: <1870496479.2562821228928914923.JavaMail.root@sz0063a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <1870496479.2562821228928914923.JavaMail.root@sz0063a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <3DB772DAAB364A03BCCD470179005962@StarmanPC> Hi Mike and all, Couldn't let this one pass :-) The original beer bottle opening meteorite is owned by Blaine Reed (unless he sold it to Mike Jenson which I doubt). Think it is a Canyon Diablo (predates the Sikhote-Alin's arriving on the collectors market by many years). Blaine has opened a few thousand (or is that ten thousand) bottles of beer with that specimen. He's been offered a good bit of change many times over the value of his specimen but claims it's a pride thing or something like that. Best! --AL Mitterling ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Bandli" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 12:08 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Toolbox Meteorite > Martin and All, > > I never considered the 'Toolbox' sub-genre of meteorites. Very well done > and interesting! > > Though not a historical one, one of my favorite 'Toolbox' meteorites is > Mike Jensen's Sikhote Alin beer bottle opener. I always search the bins in > Tucson for one, but I think Mike Jensen holds the only one in existence. > It also allows one to employ the ultimate geek pick-up line: "Excuse me, > Miss, allow me to open that Coors Light with my meteorite for you." > > Best, > > Mike Bandli From almitt at kconline.com Wed Dec 10 15:42:23 2008 From: almitt at kconline.com (al mitterling) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 15:42:23 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Martin Horejsi's The Accretion Desk Souslovo, Russia In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8BDB24AB032446EF9DE228481291E72A@StarmanPC> Greetings all, The Beaver Meteorite was used to prop open a door at a local jail house for 40 some years. Cost for the specimen was finding another stone that cold be use to prop same door open which the buyer found in the form of a chunk of cement because rocks in the area were non-existent. Best! --AL Mitterling ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 12:17 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Martin Horejsi's The Accretion Desk Souslovo,Russia > OK meteorite fans, I have seen a list of "Hammer Stones" , how about > "Toolbox meteorites"? I'll start with the easiest one, The Tucson Ring > which was > used as an anvil. > > Years from now I hope people remember it was Martin who came up with the > term and knowing Martin, it won't be long before he has amassed a killer > Toolbox > meteorite collection. > > > Also, yes Martin, I would have a blast with the Souslovo but your slice > is > to big for me to get on the polish equipment. > > Tom Phillips > > In a message dated 12/10/2008 9:46:26 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, > freequarks at gmail.com writes: > Hi Tom, > > Thanks for reading it. Normally I pass on recent finds for my > collection, but the shape and story of Souslovo was too good to skip. > > I made up the term "Toolbox Meteorite" (not to be confused with NASA's > Toolkit "Meteorite" that should be arriving any time now). I needed a > name for meteorites that are used as tools, whether doorstops, > paperweights, or wheelchocks prior to entering our collection. > However, I have seen a few continue on as tools even after entered > into a meteorite collection catalog, usually in the role of a > doorstop. > > Tom, I wish I still lived close to you. I think you would have a blast > scoping Souslovo with all its chondritic oddities. > > Best, > > Martin > > > > On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 9:20 PM, wrote: >> Every one who has not checked out Martin's article in December >> Meteorite >> Times is missing out on a way cool article. I had never heard the term > "Tool >> Box Meteorite". It that a Martin original??? >> >> Anyway, It's got it all, great photos, cool story and a wonderful >> meteorite. Thanks Martin! >> >> http://www.meteorite-times.com/meteorite_frame.htm >> >> Tom Phillips >> >> **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and >> favorite sites in one place. Try it now. >> > (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and > favorite sites in one place. Try it now. > (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From fcressy at prodigy.net Wed Dec 10 15:54:20 2008 From: fcressy at prodigy.net (Frank Cressy) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 12:54:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Toolbox Meteorite In-Reply-To: <129254617.2595031228939018316.JavaMail.root@sz0063a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <181440.13843.qm@web80201.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello all, Nininger found several toolbox meteorites such as Arispe (anvil), Maimi ("deadman" on a fence), Toluca (hammer stones to make morters) etc. He hit the jackpot though when he searched the Plainview strewn field. He found a stone used to keep the chicken coop door closed, stones used as weights in a pork barrel, and used as a weight on a milk crock cover. The best Plainview tool, in my opinion, was a stone used to get a bull's attention. Of this, Nininger wrote, " he went to the cow shed and from a crossbeam he took a small fist-sized meteorite." The farmer said, "I've been keeping this around to take after my bull with...My bull has a pretty mean disposition but when he goes on a rampage I only need to hit him once with this, somewhere around the head, and he quites right down." Sounds like this was a very useful tool! LaPaz also notes a couple of meteorite tools. The 1,375-pound La Caile, France, meteorite was used by the people of the village for two centuries as a seat in front of their church. LaPaz mentions the Rafruti, Switzerland iron meteorite, which appears to be a seasonal tool. The finder used it as a footwarmer, apparently heating it nightly before putting in his bed. Of course, there's also Blackwell, used for years as a doorstop before being liberated. I believe Martin has a piece of this in his toolbox collection. Enjoy, Frank --- On Wed, 12/10/08, Mike Bandli wrote: From: Mike Bandli Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Toolbox Meteorite To: "Dark Matter" Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 11:56 AM Re: Mike Jensen's Bottle Opener It's gone from his site, but you can still see it via the Way Back Machine here (scroll all the way to the bottom of the page): http://web.archive.org/web/20070728160656/jensenmeteorites.com/Sikhote.htm Cheers, Mike Bandli ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dark Matter" To: "Mike Bandli" Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 11:33:00 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Toolbox Meteorite Hi Mike, I'd love to see a pic of Mike's beer bottle opener. Now you've got me curious. I have some SA individuals around here that are about the right size. I'm going to grab a six-pack and see if I can find an opener. I remember showing this meteorite ( http://www.meteorite-times.com/Back_Links/2006/March/s-a2b.jpg ) to a friend at the Tucson Show and she said something like, "Oh, that would make a nice hook. It could go on your wall and you could hang your coat on it." I guess that would make it a toolbox meteorite as well (;- ) -Martin On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 10:08 AM, Mike Bandli wrote: > Martin and All, > > I never considered the 'Toolbox' sub-genre of meteorites. Very well done and interesting! > > Though not a historical one, one of my favorite 'Toolbox' meteorites is Mike Jensen's Sikhote Alin beer bottle opener. I always search the bins in Tucson for one, but I think Mike Jensen holds the only one in existence. It also allows one to employ the ultimate geek pick-up line: "Excuse me, Miss, allow me to open that Coors Light with my meteorite for you." > > Best, > > Mike Bandli > ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Wed Dec 10 15:50:34 2008 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 10 Dec 2008 20:50:34 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] Souslovo, Beaver, Brenham, Plainview, etc. Message-ID: Hi All, AL wrote: "The Beaver Meteorite was used to prop open a door at a local jail house for 40 some years. Cost for the specimen was finding another stone that cold be use to prop same door open which the buyer found in the form of a chunk of cement because rocks in the area were non-existent." PECK ELLIS (1979) The Fate of a Kansas Meteorite Crater (Sky & Telescope, August 1979, pp. 126-128): The rich farmland of Kiowa County, Kansas, is devoid of normal stones, but lots of odd, heavy ones dotted it when homesteaders arrived there in the 1870's. Some of these strange looking rocks were used to hold down rain-barrel covers, to anchor dugout roofs, or to plug fence holes. The first person to recognize these as meteorites was Eliza Kimberly, who moved to a farm there in 1885 with her new husband, Frank. When she was a girl, her schoolteacher had shown her class a meteorite that had fallen at Estherville, Iowa. Best, Bernd From freequarks at gmail.com Wed Dec 10 16:03:49 2008 From: freequarks at gmail.com (Dark Matter) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 14:03:49 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Toolbox Meteorite In-Reply-To: <181440.13843.qm@web80201.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <129254617.2595031228939018316.JavaMail.root@sz0063a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <181440.13843.qm@web80201.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <822da19a0812101303h450e85f2k5152768231e7f9e5@mail.gmail.com> Bravo Frank! Your list and quotes are wonderful. I do indeed have Blackwell. It appeared in my November 2005 Accretion Desk article. Here is part of the text from its caption: "Blackwell fell in 1906, and only a single 2.38kg stone was recovered. Blackwell, in classic meteorite stereotyping served as a doorstop for more than quarter century before being elevated to its proper stature. Further adding to the US history of this slice is fact it passed through the famous J. M. DuPont Meteorite Collection on its way to me. Even more, I believe the painted specimen number gracing the thumbprinted edge of crust on this slice is from the American Museum of Natural History in New York City. I did not see Blackwell referenced in the AMNH meteorite collection catalog, but the one I was reading was the C. A. Reed 1935 edition. Then I realized that at the time of publication, the Blackwell meteorite was still back in Oklahoma holding open a door." And here is a link to its pic: http://www.meteorite-times.com/Back_Links/2005/November/blackwell.jpg Thanks, Martin On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 1:54 PM, Frank Cressy wrote: > Hello all, > > Nininger found several toolbox meteorites such as Arispe (anvil), Maimi ("deadman" on a fence), Toluca (hammer stones to make morters) etc. > > He hit the jackpot though when he searched the Plainview strewn field. He found a stone used to keep the chicken coop door closed, stones used as weights in a pork barrel, and used as a weight on a milk crock cover. The best Plainview tool, in my opinion, was a stone used to get a bull's attention. Of this, Nininger wrote, " he went to the cow shed and from a crossbeam he took a small fist-sized meteorite." The farmer said, "I've been keeping this around to take after my bull with...My bull has a pretty mean disposition but when he goes on a rampage I only need to hit him once with this, somewhere around the head, and he quites right down." > > Sounds like this was a very useful tool! > > LaPaz also notes a couple of meteorite tools. The 1,375-pound La Caile, France, meteorite was used by the people of the village for two centuries as a seat in front of their church. LaPaz mentions the Rafruti, Switzerland iron meteorite, which appears to be a seasonal tool. The finder used it as a footwarmer, apparently heating it nightly before putting in his bed. > > Of course, there's also Blackwell, used for years as a doorstop before being liberated. I believe Martin has a piece of this in his toolbox collection. > > Enjoy, > > Frank > > --- On Wed, 12/10/08, Mike Bandli wrote: > > From: Mike Bandli > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Toolbox Meteorite > To: "Dark Matter" > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 11:56 AM > > Re: Mike Jensen's Bottle Opener > > It's gone from his site, but you can still see it via the Way Back Machine > here (scroll all the way to the bottom of the page): > > http://web.archive.org/web/20070728160656/jensenmeteorites.com/Sikhote.htm > > Cheers, > > Mike Bandli > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dark Matter" > To: "Mike Bandli" > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 11:33:00 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Toolbox Meteorite > > Hi Mike, > > I'd love to see a pic of Mike's beer bottle opener. Now you've got > me > curious. I have some SA individuals around here that are about the > right size. I'm going to grab a six-pack and see if I can find an > opener. > > I remember showing this meteorite ( > http://www.meteorite-times.com/Back_Links/2006/March/s-a2b.jpg ) to a > friend at the Tucson Show and she said something like, "Oh, that would > make a nice hook. It could go on your wall and you could hang your > coat on it." I guess that would make it a toolbox meteorite as well > (;- ) > > -Martin > > On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 10:08 AM, Mike Bandli > wrote: >> Martin and All, >> >> I never considered the 'Toolbox' sub-genre of meteorites. Very > well done and interesting! >> >> Though not a historical one, one of my favorite 'Toolbox' > meteorites is Mike Jensen's Sikhote Alin beer bottle opener. I always search > the bins in Tucson for one, but I think Mike Jensen holds the only one in > existence. It also allows one to employ the ultimate geek pick-up line: > "Excuse me, Miss, allow me to open that Coors Light with my meteorite for > you." >> >> Best, >> >> Mike Bandli >> > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From bobe5531 at comcast.net Wed Dec 10 16:06:36 2008 From: bobe5531 at comcast.net (Bob Evans) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 15:06:36 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad- Monnig, Aml and other goodies just in time for xmas Message-ID: <000701c95b0b$30cd0440$0201a8c0@yourae066c3a9b> Well, After taking off several months of Dealing meteorites, I can stay away no longer. I have some very nice offerings available over the next few weeks. I was fortunate enough to purchase another small collection of meteorites with some very unique meteorites ( some I never heard of ). Most of these have Monnig and AML Cards accompanying the specimens. So you will not need to ask me where or who I got them from ( you will NOT get an answer ) I keep my methods of acquisitions and contacts confidential. Here is a partial list : Mckinney Texas La Lande N.M. Plainview Ness Co. Kansas Sandia Mountains N.M. Ladder Creek Adrian Texas Romero Texas Morland Kansas Noreatur Kansas Some of these meteorites have an appointment with my saw. I am offering these meteorites to a preferred list of collectors. If you are interested in any of these please email me letting me know which ones that you are interested in. I will be offering these to you first. A copy of each corresponding collection card will be included with each purchase. It will take me a couple of weeks to get the meteorites processed but I wanted to give you a heads up. I have also just received two new beautiful type 3 chondrites. I got a great deal on these and I will be selling them far less than $15 / gram They will be submitted for classification. Also be on the lookout for a large slice of Zagami and more that enough Juvinas to put a huge smile on your face. Both with impeccable provence ( that is the politically correct way to say it, right ?) BE From Impactika at aol.com Wed Dec 10 16:31:27 2008 From: Impactika at aol.com (Impactika at aol.com) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 16:31:27 EST Subject: [meteorite-list] Zelimir's Bottle Opener Message-ID: Hello, and here it is: http://www.impactika.com/zelimir.htm Enjoy. Anne M. Black http://www.impactika.com/ IMPACTIKA at aol.com Vice-President, I.M.C.A. Inc. http://www.imca.cc/ **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) From yellowengine at earthlink.net Wed Dec 10 16:43:29 2008 From: yellowengine at earthlink.net (RJP) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 15:43:29 -0600 (GMT-06:00) Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad- Monnig, Aml and other goodies just in time for xmas Message-ID: <12717714.1228945409727.JavaMail.root@mswamui-thinleaf.atl.sa.earthlink.net> "..Both with impeccable provence (that is the politically correct way to say it, right ?)" Nah. I think it just means that Southern France is absolutely perfect. Espeially in the spring time! From epgrondine at yahoo.com Wed Dec 10 17:09:12 2008 From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 14:09:12 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Moon dust pens Message-ID: <545950.38888.qm@web36901.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi everyone - Here's what I was talking about: http://www.spacedaily.com/moondustpen-competition.html real "simulated" Moon dust. Now if any of you saved your lunar cuttings, it looks like an opportunity for you. For that matter, spacer.com might make a good place to sell meteorites to an entirely new set of collectors Good Luck, and Good Hunting, E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Wed Dec 10 17:20:07 2008 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 10 Dec 2008 22:20:07 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] Toolbox Meteorite - Toluca Message-ID: Frank wrote: "Nininger found several toolbox meteorites such as...Toluca ..." Meteorites of Xiquipilco, Mexico - by Dr. H.H. Nininger, Director, American Meteorite Museum, Winslow, Ariz., Photos by Nininger. Reprint from Earth Science Digest, November, 1952, Vol. 6, No. 3. Pages 19 to 30: Alzate Ramirez, writing in 1831, stated that from time immemorial the haciendas of Xiquipilco and vicinity had depended entirely on "native iron" found by the Xiquipilco Indians for all their tools and implements. Says Rarmirez, "About the year 1776 I went to Xiquipilco to see with my own eyes the famed native iron. I found two smiths established in the town who worked the native iron, and in my sight they forged it and worked it into the shape demanded of them." Best, Bernd From tina-john at cox.net Wed Dec 10 17:31:40 2008 From: tina-john at cox.net (tina-john at cox.net) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 17:31:40 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] (no subject) Message-ID: <20081210173140.P50H2.11479.imail@eastrmwml34> Hello, For some reason I began receiving list e mails again. Could you please remove from the list? Thanks, -- John C. Miller Tina-John at cox.net I.M.C.A. #2272 From mlblood at cox.net Wed Dec 10 17:40:30 2008 From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael L Blood) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 14:40:30 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] Is this a fair price and reputable source for Trinitite? In-Reply-To: <21B6131D02FA40F5BE4500E3E928ED0B@ASUS> Message-ID: Hi Jerry & all, That is a "fair" price, but not a particularly good price. ($10 to $12/g for 5 to 7 gram pieces, good quality) List member Michael Gilmer is offering a VERY good Price, but his pieces are only up to 2 or 3 grams - but MUCH Cheaper. ($3 to $5/g??? - contact him for quote at: ) That is a VERY good price - but Only small pieces (prices go up quickly with size). I have some large pieces (10 to 16g) @ $10/g. So, if you want small, Michael Gilmer is the best price by Far. If you want size, mine are the best I am aware of (doesn't Mean there aren't large ones at a better price somewhere). While If you want medium sized, they guy you mention is a fair price. It depends on the size you are after and the total you are willing To spend. (Personally, I like BIG - but that didn't work out so well With my belly....) Best wishes, Michael on 12/10/08 8:41 AM, Jerry Flaherty at grf2 at verizon.net wrote: > http://www.unitednuclear.com/trinititenew.htm > Jerry Flaherty > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Get 30% to 50% more gas mileage immediately (I did!): http://go4best.water4gas.hop.clickbank.net/ From bobe5531 at comcast.net Wed Dec 10 18:06:23 2008 From: bobe5531 at comcast.net (bobe5531 at comcast.net) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 23:06:23 +0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] Monnig, AML and other goodies Message-ID: <121020082306.1639.49404B6F0004714B000006672206824693CECCCACA0A0D010D@comcast.net> Ok, Provenance. Alright guys? stop with the jokes. My bad ! From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Wed Dec 10 18:12:28 2008 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 10 Dec 2008 23:12:28 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] Toolbox Meteorite - Implements and Tools Message-ID: Hello Listees and Listoids, 1. According to Buchwald, most of the Burlington iron was forged into agricultural implements, and the remainder has been heated 2. Manlai iron: "A story about the Manlai meteorite reported that a long time ago, a smith of that area broke off a small piece, having recognized the meteorite as a piece of steel suitable for making various types of implements" (Namnandorj, 1980). 3. Netscha?vo: The largest preserved fragments weigh about 500 g, and the total known weight is only about 6.1 kg. The remainder was evidently forged into agricultural implements. The fragments often show hammered surfaces, proving these assumptions (Buchwald). Best from rainy, cold Southern Germany, Bernd From mark at meteorites.cc Wed Dec 10 18:31:26 2008 From: mark at meteorites.cc (Mark Crawford) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 23:31:26 +0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] Toolbox Meteorite In-Reply-To: <1870496479.2562821228928914923.JavaMail.root@sz0063a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <1870496479.2562821228928914923.JavaMail.root@sz0063a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <4940514E.9070504@meteorites.cc> You so need to get out more, Mike ;-) Mike Bandli wrote: > It also allows one to employ the ultimate geek pick-up line: "Excuse me, Miss, allow me to open that Coors Light with my meteorite for you." > -- Mark's Meteorite Pages: http://meteorites.cc From STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com Wed Dec 10 18:51:41 2008 From: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com (STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 18:51:41 EST Subject: [meteorite-list] Toolbox Meteorite Clarification? Message-ID: It seems that for a meteorite to be a "Toolbox" it's utilitarian life must of been started prior to it being "discovered" as a meteorite. Any use after it is known is merely a novelty. I have a 12.5 Kg NWA sitting on a fern stand, it makes a great place to put my hat. I can't imagine Martin would want a slice of it for his new collection! Martin, It's your call! Tom In a message dated 12/10/2008 4:32:27 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, mark at meteorites.cc writes: You so need to get out more, Mike ;-) Mike Bandli wrote: > It also allows one to employ the ultimate geek pick-up line: "Excuse me, Miss, allow me to open that Coors Light with my meteorite for you." > -- Mark's Meteorite Pages: http://meteorites.cc ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) From star-bits at tx.rr.com Wed Dec 10 19:03:48 2008 From: star-bits at tx.rr.com (star-bits at tx.rr.com) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 0:03:48 +0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] Toolbox Meteorite - Implements and Tools In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20081211000349.M3INC.235431.root@cdptpa-web22-z02> Also add Cranbourne to the list "Some stories tell of Aborigines dancing around the meteorite long before a settler, passing that way, attempted to tether his horse to what he thought was a stump protruding from the ground... The first mention of the meteorite resulted from the Melbourne Exhibition held in 1854. This occasion of the times featured a exhibit of hroseshoe made by a Melbourne farrier from quote "a specimen of iron from Western Port" Later investigations were to reveal that a small protion of the meteorite had been chiselled off the main mass to forge the horseshoe." Australian Gem and Treasure Hunter 1982 -- Eric Olson 610 W. Moore Rd Tucson AZ 85755 http://www.star-bits.com From dmerchan at rochester.rr.com Wed Dec 10 19:08:46 2008 From: dmerchan at rochester.rr.com (Don Merchant) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 19:08:46 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Moon dust pens References: <545950.38888.qm@web36901.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000501c95b24$a309f9a0$6401a8c0@donaldmerchant> Neat Idea. If you read the last paragraph they are using a Simulated Man Made Material that resembles the Moon soil known as JSC-1A Lunar Regolith hmmmm I'll wait for the real thing! Sincerely Don Merchant IMCA #0960 ----- Original Message ----- From: "E.P. Grondine" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:09 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Moon dust pens > Hi everyone - > > Here's what I was talking about: > > http://www.spacedaily.com/moondustpen-competition.html > > real "simulated" Moon dust. Now if any of you saved your lunar cuttings, > it looks like an opportunity for you. > > For that matter, spacer.com might make a good place to sell meteorites to > an entirely new set of collectors > > Good Luck, and Good Hunting, > E.P. Grondine > Man and Impact in the Americas > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mary.kashuba at verizon.net Wed Dec 10 19:13:10 2008 From: mary.kashuba at verizon.net (Kashuba) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 16:13:10 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] Souslovo In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <003901c95b25$40679ea0$c136dbe0$@kashuba@verizon.net> List, For anyone interested - I've taken a half dozen thin section pictures of Souslovo L4 and posted them here: http://johnkashuba.com/Pages/Meteorite%20Pages/Pictures/SouslovoL4.htm - John John Kashuba Ontario, California From midwest at meteorman.org Wed Dec 10 19:25:00 2008 From: midwest at meteorman.org (Timothy Heitz) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 18:25:00 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Souslovo References: <003901c95b25$40679ea0$c136dbe0$@kashuba@verizon.net> Message-ID: WOW, Great pictures, thanks for sharing Tim Heitz Midwest Meteorites - http://www.meteorman.org/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kashuba" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 6:13 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Souslovo List, For anyone interested - I've taken a half dozen thin section pictures of Souslovo L4 and posted them here: http://johnkashuba.com/Pages/Meteorite%20Pages/Pictures/SouslovoL4.htm - John John Kashuba Ontario, California ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From grf2 at verizon.net Wed Dec 10 19:21:37 2008 From: grf2 at verizon.net (Jerry Flaherty) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 19:21:37 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Is this a fair price and reputable source forTrinitite? References: <21B6131D02FA40F5BE4500E3E928ED0B@ASUS> <002301c95af3$5a5d8180$d0e11960@laptop> Message-ID: <77AE8BBFF92648D58229721900AD9FC6@ASUS> thanks Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete Shugar" To: "Jerry Flaherty" ; Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 1:15 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Is this a fair price and reputable source forTrinitite? > Althou the price is on the high side, (about 30% too high) > you need to remember that they need to pay for that $50,000 > mass spectrometer----heehee. > Pete From raremeteorites at yahoo.com Wed Dec 10 19:52:06 2008 From: raremeteorites at yahoo.com (Adam Hupe) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 16:52:06 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Definitely Worth Checking Out! Message-ID: <580715.96909.qm@web30701.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dear List Members, I would like bring to your attention some great items now listed on eBay. I put up some exceptional pieces this week, some so different or unique that they are definitely worth a look. My move to sunny and very friendly Laughlin was more expensive than anticipated so please help me to bring back some resemblance of a budget. Most items are started out at just 99 cents for those who have budgets of their own while other items are very reasonably priced. Click below to see some great auctions: http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/raremeteorites!_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZQQ_mdoZ MUST SEE - Two Types of Xenoliths in a Single Slice, Studied at NAU: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140288317033 Two Generous Sized Crusted Specimens of NWA 3160 Lunar Meteorite Started at Just 99 Cents: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140287825232 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140288318485 Nice Crusted Part Slice of NWA 3163 Lunar Meteorite Started at Just 99 Cents: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140288319013 Complete Amgala Individual With Unburnt Clast: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200286998152 LUNAR MAIN MASS - Dhofar 910, Legally obtained: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200287000792 COMPLETE SLICE - MARTIAN METEORITE- NWA 1195 - Largest and Only Complete Slice Left: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200287003490 Giant Olivine Diogenite Block Cut With Crust and Polished Surface: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200287004931 Largest Piece of NWA 2999 Angrite Left Started at Just 99 Cents, Fantastic Crust: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200287006824 And Many More Examples Worth Looking at Can Be Found at This Link: http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/raremeteorites!_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZQQ_mdoZ Thank you for looking and if you are bidding, good luck. Best Regards, ------------------------------------ Adam Hupe The Hupe Collection Team LunarRock IMCA 2185 raremeteorites at yahoo.com From almitt at kconline.com Wed Dec 10 20:10:00 2008 From: almitt at kconline.com (al mitterling) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 20:10:00 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad- Monnig, Aml and other goodies just in time for xmas In-Reply-To: <000701c95b0b$30cd0440$0201a8c0@yourae066c3a9b> References: <000701c95b0b$30cd0440$0201a8c0@yourae066c3a9b> Message-ID: Bob, I believe it was successfully pointed out on the list that you misrepresented material, Plymouth, Indiana possibly being one, and there are a number of people who posted they had difficulties dealing with you and questionable dealings. I would think you would be ashamed to show up on this list and offer meteorites with pedigrees when your dealings are very much in question here. You can spout off like your some big dealer here but I'll go to the archives and bring up all the old information on you for others to read. My advise is to find some other hobby to misrepresent items in where people don't know you. --AL Mitterling ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Evans" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 4:06 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad- Monnig,Aml and other goodies just in time for xmas > Well, > After taking off several months of Dealing meteorites, I can stay away no > longer. > I have some very nice offerings available over the next few weeks. > > I was fortunate enough to purchase another small collection of meteorites > with some very unique meteorites ( some I never heard of ). > Most of these have Monnig and AML Cards accompanying the specimens. So you > will not need to ask me where or who I got them from ( you will NOT get an > answer ) I keep my methods of acquisitions and contacts confidential. > > Here is a partial list : > > Mckinney Texas > La Lande N.M. > Plainview > Ness Co. Kansas > Sandia Mountains N.M. > Ladder Creek > Adrian Texas > Romero Texas > Morland Kansas > Noreatur Kansas > > Some of these meteorites have an appointment with my saw. > > I am offering these meteorites to a preferred list of collectors. > If you are interested in any of these please email me letting me know > which ones that you are interested in. I will be offering these to you > first. > A copy of each corresponding collection card will be included with each > purchase. > It will take me a couple of weeks to get the meteorites processed but I > wanted to give you a heads up. > > I have also just received two new beautiful type 3 chondrites. I got a > great deal on these and I will be selling them far less than $15 / gram > They will be submitted for classification. > Also be on the lookout for a large slice of Zagami and more that enough > Juvinas to put a huge smile on your face. Both with impeccable provence > ( that is the politically correct way to say it, right ?) > > BE > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From grf2 at verizon.net Wed Dec 10 21:16:19 2008 From: grf2 at verizon.net (Jerry Flaherty) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 21:16:19 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Souslovo References: <003901c95b25$40679ea0$c136dbe0$@kashuba@verizon.net> Message-ID: <38D5259063CB4362A30D5EC1377EE9A7@ASUS> John, always learn something from your beautiful posts ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kashuba" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 7:13 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Souslovo > List, > > For anyone interested - I've taken a half dozen thin section pictures of > Souslovo L4 and posted them here: > > http://johnkashuba.com/Pages/Meteorite%20Pages/Pictures/SouslovoL4.htm > > - John > > John Kashuba > Ontario, California > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mmurray at montrose.net Wed Dec 10 21:16:28 2008 From: mmurray at montrose.net (Michael Murray) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 19:16:28 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] automatically sorting the M-List emails Message-ID: Some folks are just plain touchy about receiving a lot of emails from the Met-List or other mail lists. If you're one of those good people, why don't you set up your MS Outlook or in the case of an Mac your Mail program to sort all the incoming Met-List postings into a folder other than your inbox. It doesn't matter then if you get 30 or 300 new emails in a day, you can quickly browse them, read the ones you want, and delete as many as you want all at the same time. I look through the posts and save the ones I want to save and do a "select all" and delete every thing else in the folder. In a few days, I do it all again. None of the emails from M-List members go into my inbox. They all go to the new folder that I named "Meteorite List" which by the way is on my computer's hard drive, not on the server. There really isn't a good reason for me to save older M- List emails because should I need to see one I can go to the archives and find it quick using the search function. Just one caution if you plan to set up your MS Outlook to do this, when you have it all set up to select incoming messages based on the "sent to", it will automatically sort all messages with that "sent to" in to your new folder. Just wanted to prepare you for that. You may want to study that a bit before going ahead with creating the new folder. I wouldn't want someone to go ahead with creating the new folder, hit the button only to see all of their previous sorting into other folders go away. In MS Outlook, if I want to save a Met-List post off by itself or in another folder, I doctor it so the automatic sorting doesn't see it then I move it to the new location. The Mail program on my Mac doesn't work like MS Outlook in this respect. As far as I can tell, it only moves incoming messages right into the new folder I set up. Hope that if you are simply bugged by a lot of incoming messages or want to keep your inbox clear for a business or other stuff that you look into this. Study it first though, as it may not be for everyone. If you decide to do this, just go to the help file and it will lead you through the set-up. All the Best, Mike From qwalkra at mailbox.ezadsl.net.au Wed Dec 10 21:51:06 2008 From: qwalkra at mailbox.ezadsl.net.au (Bob WALKER) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 12:51:06 +1000 Subject: [meteorite-list] QMIG update Message-ID: Subject: QMIG update > Listoids > > Firstly a very merry Christmas and a happy new year to all listoids - may > all good things happen to you and yours > > Secondly - QMIG update by 2 !!! > > Thirdly - new find from smack bang in the middle of the Tenham strewnfield > seems to be a Tenham - damnit - see picture of cut face linked from news > page > > Lastly - Iz look like visiting in and near the Tenham strewnfield approx > xmas... many stones were a nusisance to the property owneres who moved > them !!! so I am hoping my guided tour will reveal some from where they > were moved to rather than where they should be !!! > > Whoah - forgot - better put in the link or Michael will get cranky at me > again - http://www.qmig.org or mirror at http://www.qmig.net > > Ciao > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 3682 (20081210) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > From freequarks at gmail.com Wed Dec 10 22:07:57 2008 From: freequarks at gmail.com (Dark Matter) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 20:07:57 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Souslovo In-Reply-To: <38D5259063CB4362A30D5EC1377EE9A7@ASUS> References: <38D5259063CB4362A30D5EC1377EE9A7@ASUS> Message-ID: <822da19a0812101907v7e8c4165t45d50421978730b9@mail.gmail.com> Wonderful Pics John. Thanks for sharing them with us. As I pointed out in the article, Souslovo is a very busy meteorite with macroscopic oddities everywhere one looks. Best, Martin On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 7:16 PM, Jerry Flaherty wrote: > John, always learn something from your beautiful posts > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kashuba" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 7:13 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Souslovo > > >> List, >> >> For anyone interested - I've taken a half dozen thin section pictures of >> Souslovo L4 and posted them here: >> >> http://johnkashuba.com/Pages/Meteorite%20Pages/Pictures/SouslovoL4.htm >> >> - John >> >> John Kashuba >> Ontario, California >> >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From freequarks at gmail.com Wed Dec 10 22:11:30 2008 From: freequarks at gmail.com (Dark Matter) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 20:11:30 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Toolbox Meteorite Clarification? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <822da19a0812101911m78fd0becv6238acdbdfb99191@mail.gmail.com> Hi Tom, I think another caveat might be that the Toolbox meteorite needed to be used "as is" rather than pounded into a more desired shape. Just a thought that knocks the wind out of a thousand years of irons. If you cannot grow it, you must mine it. Unless, that is, you want to wait around for it to fall from the sky. Oh, and regarding the fern-based hat holder, I think I could find plenty of enjoyment having a hot desert dinner plate displayed here. Best, Martin On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 4:51 PM, wrote: > It seems that for a meteorite to be a "Toolbox" it's utilitarian life must > of been started prior to it being "discovered" as a meteorite. Any use after > it is known is merely a novelty. I have a 12.5 Kg NWA sitting on a fern > stand, it makes a great place to put my hat. I can't imagine Martin would want a > slice of it for his new collection! > > Martin, It's your call! > > Tom > > In a message dated 12/10/2008 4:32:27 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, > mark at meteorites.cc writes: > You so need to get out more, Mike ;-) > > Mike Bandli wrote: >> It also allows one to employ the ultimate geek pick-up line: "Excuse me, > Miss, allow me to open that Coors Light with my meteorite for you." >> > > -- > Mark's Meteorite Pages: http://meteorites.cc > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and > favorite sites in one place. Try it now. > (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From yellowengine at earthlink.net Wed Dec 10 22:45:04 2008 From: yellowengine at earthlink.net (RJP) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 21:45:04 -0600 (GMT-06:00) Subject: [meteorite-list] Bonhams Shipping Hassle Message-ID: <24490040.1228967105125.JavaMail.root@elwamui-chisos.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Ok.. so I get my shipping quote from Bonhams LA for last weekends auction, and I was a bit surprised by the shipping charges that they came up with. Has anyone else had difficulty negotiating with them? I am currently in the process of locating a reliable 3rd party agent, if anyone has a recommendation. Any input would be greatly appreciated! Best Wishes, Ryan Pawelski From mikewren at gilanet.com Wed Dec 10 22:48:52 2008 From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 20:48:52 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: THE BIG HOLIDAY SALE NOW STARTED! OVER $10, 000.00+ Starting out at 0.99 cents! Message-ID: <39A31447-6D8A-42CF-A3C4-6E50B994AE8B@gilanet.com> Hello All! I have listed my BIG, BIG HOLIDAY SALE up on good ole ebay! 37 Auctions with a value of over $10,000.00, started out at 0.99 cents. Over 100 New specimens in my ebay store too. Highlights will soon be made ready, I just thought I would give everyone the heads up for my best listing of the year! Good Luck. Go to: http://stores.ebay.com/voyage-botanica-natural-history Highlights soon.... Best Wishes and Thanks Michael Cottingham From markig at westnet.com Wed Dec 10 22:54:49 2008 From: markig at westnet.com (Mark Grossman) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 22:54:49 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Bonhams Shipping Hassle References: <24490040.1228967105125.JavaMail.root@elwamui-chisos.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <007f01c95b44$36f8f980$6501a8c0@QED> I've heard about a lot difficulties about the price of shipping items purchased at auctions - any type of auctions. Best thing to do is to ask up front if possible. I was able to do this for an Australian auction where I bid over the Internet. The final cost of shipment was pretty close to what was quoted before the auction. I know this doesn't help your situation, but it's something for anyone to think about for future auctions. Best of luck in finding another shipping agent. Mark Grossman ----- Original Message ----- From: "RJP" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 10:45 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Bonhams Shipping Hassle > Ok.. so I get my shipping quote from Bonhams LA for last weekends auction, and I was a bit surprised by the shipping charges that they came up with. Has anyone else had difficulty negotiating with them? I am currently in the process of locating a reliable 3rd party agent, if anyone has a recommendation. > > Any input would be greatly appreciated! > > Best Wishes, > > Ryan Pawelski > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com Wed Dec 10 22:58:03 2008 From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 19:58:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Bonhams Shipping Hassle In-Reply-To: <24490040.1228967105125.JavaMail.root@elwamui-chisos.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <720420.60551.qm@web45610.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> --- On Wed, 12/10/08, RJP wrote: > From: RJP > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Bonhams Shipping Hassle > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 10:45 PM > Ok.. so I get my shipping quote from Bonhams LA for last > weekends auction, and I was a bit surprised by the shipping > charges that they came up with. Has anyone else had > difficulty negotiating with them? I am currently in the > process of locating a reliable 3rd party agent, if anyone > has a recommendation. > > Any input would be greatly appreciated! > > Best Wishes, > > Ryan Pawelski > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoritekid at gmail.com Thu Dec 11 03:59:43 2008 From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 00:59:43 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] Contact Information - Michel Franco? Message-ID: <93aaac890812110059x48d6c811v86e508927997c156@mail.gmail.com> Hello All, I've been trying to contact Michel Franco, but have been unable to reach him at the following address: michel at caillou-noir.com - All emails have been returned to me. Does anyone else know how to contact him? Thanks, Jason From michael at spacerocksinc.com Thu Dec 11 06:05:57 2008 From: michael at spacerocksinc.com (Michael Johnson) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 03:05:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December 11, 2008 Message-ID: <22430314.2637961228993557141.JavaMail.root@mbs4.homesteadmail.com> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/December_11_2008.html From grf2 at verizon.net Thu Dec 11 10:37:27 2008 From: grf2 at verizon.net (Jerry Flaherty) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 10:37:27 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December 11, 2008 References: <22430314.2637961228993557141.JavaMail.root@mbs4.homesteadmail.com> Message-ID: <94F8EDE5D5C04669A5A4E5F7A886676B@ASUS> It would never survive in my possession due to the drool factor ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Johnson" To: "Meteorite List" Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 6:05 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December 11,2008 > http://www.rocksfromspace.org/December_11_2008.html > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Thu Dec 11 11:07:25 2008 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 11 Dec 2008 16:07:25 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December 11, 2008 Message-ID: "It would never survive in my possession due to the drool factor" .. and then this beautiful Gan Gan would be "gone, gone" :-( Bernd :-) http://www.rocksfromspace.org/December_11_2008.html To: grf2 at verizon.net michael at spacerocksinc.com meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com From MeteorHntr at aol.com Thu Dec 11 13:57:34 2008 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 13:57:34 EST Subject: [meteorite-list] Souslovo, Beaver, Brenham, Plainview, etc. Message-ID: Brenham from the Hopewell Mounds in Ohio were found fashioned as buttons and ear rings. Axtell was used as a door stop for years, and had paint drips on the exteriour from at least one room painting. An Allende was used as a block to hold up a car in a mechanics garage I understand. ASU has a killer tool that was fashioned from a Toluca, made for harvesting some type of plant as I understand. Cape York was used to make arrow points. Bethune Co was used as a block in a cemented wall, I think. Somervell County was used in wall. Tucson Ring was used as an anvil. A Vaca Meurta was used as an anvil and another as a hammer rock to break up other Vaca specimens. Modern fashioned Meteorites are used as knives. There have to be a hundred more examples. Steve Arnold #1 www.SteveArnoldMeteorites.com **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Thu Dec 11 14:05:31 2008 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 11 Dec 2008 19:05:31 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] Souslovo, Beaver, Brenham, Plainview, etc. Message-ID: Steve Arnold #1 writes: "There have to be a hundred more examples!" Yep, don't forget Korra Korrabes (H3), the largest specimen of which (24 kg) was used in a garden wall until 2000 August. Bernd From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com Thu Dec 11 14:20:50 2008 From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 11:20:50 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] the las palmas iron Message-ID: <181650.98870.qm@web57805.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi list.I just received my 174 gram LAS PALMAS iron from bob c.This is the new iron which is in classification even as we speak.Ted Bunch is doing the classing.When I was at bob's house,I saw alot of these irons.Very sculpted and very nice natural patina color.They are saying that this might be a new iron.Here are a few items that might suggest so.These irons were found 200 miles to the east of the campo strewn field,plus alto of these irons are highly oriented,where most campo's are not.Also these were found in a 100 square foot field.Making it very small.They were also found in a very dry location.They are guessing that the TKW might be just under 1000 kilo's.Not alto for an iron.When cleaned,like my piece,they are a beauty to behold and do not have the same characteristics as a campo.Bob has listed a few on eBay where alto more info can be seen.The natural ones with the light patina are very nice as well.You should get one before they are gone.Plus he is doing free shipping on these.Most are at very reasonable prices.Have a great day. Steve R.Arnold,Chicago! http://chicagometeorites.net/ From majbaermann at web.de Thu Dec 11 14:21:33 2008 From: majbaermann at web.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Matthias_B=E4rmann?=) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 20:21:33 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Souslovo, Beaver, Brenham, Plainview, etc. References: Message-ID: <87E9DFB7F95642A9A6A6D1B18C7DF6C5@thinkcentre> As far as I know the only early culture avoiding strictly to make use of meteoritical material was that of Australian aboriginies. Would be utmost interesting to find out, why. Does anyone here know more? I have a vague idea, but far from being sure. Matthias Baermann ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 7:57 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Souslovo, Beaver, Brenham, Plainview, etc. > > Brenham from the Hopewell Mounds in Ohio were found fashioned as buttons > and > ear rings. > > Axtell was used as a door stop for years, and had paint drips on the > exteriour from at least one room painting. > > An Allende was used as a block to hold up a car in a mechanics garage I > understand. > > ASU has a killer tool that was fashioned from a Toluca, made for > harvesting > some type of plant as I understand. > > Cape York was used to make arrow points. > > Bethune Co was used as a block in a cemented wall, I think. > > Somervell County was used in wall. > > Tucson Ring was used as an anvil. > > A Vaca Meurta was used as an anvil and another as a hammer rock to break > up > other Vaca specimens. > > Modern fashioned Meteorites are used as knives. > > There have to be a hundred more examples. > > Steve Arnold #1 > www.SteveArnoldMeteorites.com > > **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and > favorite sites in one place. Try it now. > (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mary.kashuba at verizon.net Thu Dec 11 14:07:40 2008 From: mary.kashuba at verizon.net (Kashuba) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 11:07:40 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December 11, 2008 In-Reply-To: <22430314.2637961228993557141.JavaMail.root@mbs4.homesteadmail.com> References: <22430314.2637961228993557141.JavaMail.root@mbs4.homesteadmail.com> Message-ID: <004c01c95bc3$bd678c00$3836a400$@kashuba@verizon.net> This looks like a nice demonstration of a troilite nodule - being weaker than metal - having been partially ablated during atmospheric passage. Very cool slice. - John Ontario, California -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Michael Johnson Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 3:06 AM To: Meteorite List Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December 11, 2008 http://www.rocksfromspace.org/December_11_2008.html ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Thu Dec 11 14:44:20 2008 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 11 Dec 2008 19:44:20 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] Souslovo, Beaver, Brenham, Plainview, etc. Message-ID: Hello Matthias and List, "As far as I know the only early culture avoiding strictly to make use of meteoritical material was that of Australian aborigines. Would be utmost interesting to find out, why. Does anyone here know more?" Ancestors of aborigines living near the Boxhole crater may have witnessed the Boxhole irons fall and they named this area "Sun walk fire devil rock." The word "devil" may be a hint that such objects were the works of devilish forces in their eyes and so they preferred to stay away from them !?!? Bernd From majbaermann at web.de Thu Dec 11 15:35:40 2008 From: majbaermann at web.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Matthias_B=E4rmann?=) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 21:35:40 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Souslovo, Beaver, Brenham, Plainview, etc. References: Message-ID: <6C7C7810571C434DA97DC149565CA3E3@thinkcentre> Hello Bernd & listoids, the same description - ""Chindu chinna waru chingi yaku" in aboriginal idiom - is told in regard to the Henbury crater field. And as far as I was told there could be doubts whether it's authentic. Nevertheless it seems probable that Aboriginies witnessed the Henbury fall, about 4.500 years ago (Boxhole is much older, ca. 54.000 years). In any case, it seems that the Henbury craters - and probably others too? - had the status of tabu for indigenous people. Perhaps caused by fear or simply respect. Another reason could be the concept of the songlines which seem to represent the reality as a whole. And as each single structure of the landscape was present in a certain passage of a song, it seems natural that the different tribes tried to preserve the landscape as well as the songs, unchanged as far as possible. My best, Matthias ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 8:44 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Souslovo, Beaver, Brenham, Plainview, etc. > Hello Matthias and List, > > "As far as I know the only early culture avoiding strictly to make use of > meteoritical material was that of Australian aborigines. Would be utmost > interesting to find out, why. Does anyone here know more?" > > Ancestors of aborigines living near the Boxhole crater may have witnessed > the Boxhole irons fall and they named this area "Sun walk fire devil > rock." > > The word "devil" may be a hint that such objects were the works of > devilish > forces in their eyes and so they preferred to stay away from them !?!? > > Bernd > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From qwalkra at mailbox.ezadsl.net.au Thu Dec 11 15:36:42 2008 From: qwalkra at mailbox.ezadsl.net.au (Bob WALKER) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 06:36:42 +1000 Subject: [meteorite-list] QMIG proposal to sell Australia's most ferocious meteorite Message-ID: Listoids I am proposing to sell a limited edition of Australia's most ferocious meteorite with a provisional name to be sought of SCORPION BIGHT (likely H5) Camel Donga used to be my most favorite ferociously named meteorite but SCORPION BIGHT blows it away a la ferocity Perhaps other listoids could start a thread on other ferociously named meteorites please... Lord knows the list needs some light-hearted humour from time to time I am preparing a limited edition of 25 micros at US $60 each plus postage I am still wrestling with export approval and cannot sell outside Australia until this aspect is finalised I am seeking expressions of interest in that this will be the first and only sale of micros at or about 2 to 3 grams in a artworked coinslab although I may sell the main mass of 400 + grams less a type specimen requirement I'll most likely keep the half dozen or so frags that were recovered with the main mass Cheers http://www.qmig.org From geoking at notkin.net Thu Dec 11 15:39:15 2008 From: geoking at notkin.net (Notkin) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 13:39:15 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] the las palmas iron In-Reply-To: <181650.98870.qm@web57805.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <181650.98870.qm@web57805.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <455BA623-D92F-4C86-9FFA-2083E235F00E@notkin.net> Dear Steve and List: I am curious to know if there has been any recent news on the classification of Las Palmas. I heard quite a while ago that Ted might be working on it. It's a lovely iron and I have a few, and have been wondering for some time if Las Palmas is paired with Campo or a new find. Although the examples I have bear some resemblance to Campo del Cielo, the Las Palmas irons show better preservation, far more elaborate shapes, and display many small regmaglypts. I don't recall if Ted is on the List, but if you are, I'd be most interested in further info when it becomes available. Thanks and regards, Geoff N. www.aerolite.org www.campometeorites.com From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Thu Dec 11 19:26:18 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 16:26:18 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars Orbiter Completes Prime Mission (MRO) Message-ID: <200812120026.QAA08937@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> Dec. 11, 2008 Dwayne Brown Headquarters, Washington 202-358-1726 dwayne.c.brown at nasa.gov Guy Webster Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. 818-354-6278 guy.webster at jpl.nasa.gov RELEASE: 08-324 MARS ORBITER COMPLETES PRIME MISSION PASADENA, Calif. -- NASA's Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter has completed its primary, two-year science phase. The spacecraft has found signs of a complex Martian history of climate change that produced a diversity of past watery environments. The orbiter has returned 73 terabits of science data, more than all earlier Mars missions combined. The spacecraft will build on this record as it continues to examine Mars in unprecedented detail during its next two-year phase of science operations. Among the major findings during the primary science phase is the revelation that the action of water on and near the surface of Mars occurred for hundreds of millions of years. This activity was at least regional and possibly global in extent, though possibly intermittent. The spacecraft also observed that signatures of a variety of watery environments, some acidic, some alkaline, increase the possibility that there are places on Mars that could reveal evidence of past life, if it ever existed. Since moving into position 186 miles above Mars' surface in October 2006, the orbiter also has conducted 10,000 targeted observation sequences of high-priority areas. It has imaged nearly 40 percent of the planet at a resolution that can reveal house-sized objects in detail, 1 percent in enough detail to see desk-sized features. This survey has covered almost 60 percent of Mars in mineral mapping bands at stadium-size resolution. The orbiter also assembled nearly 700 daily global weather maps, dozens of atmospheric temperature profiles, and hundreds of radar profiles of the subsurface and the interior of the polar caps. "These observations are now at the level of detail necessary to test hypotheses about when and where water has changed Mars and where future missions will be most productive as they search for habitable regions on Mars," said Richard Zurek, Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter project scientist at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif. Included in the observations are hundreds of stereo pairs used to make detailed topography maps and classic images in support of other Mars missions. One image showed the Mars rover Opportunity poised on the rim of Victoria Crater and another of NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander during its descent to the surface. Orbiter data prompted the Phoenix team to change the spacecraft's landing site, and are being used to select the landing location for NASA's Mars Science Laboratory, which is scheduled for launch in 2011. For five months of Phoenix operations on Mars that ended in November, the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter and NASA's Mars Odyssey orbiter shared the vital communications roles of relaying commands to the lander and data from Phoenix back to Earth. The Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter has found repetitive layering in Mars' permanent polar ice caps. The patterns suggest climate change cycles continuing to the present. They may record possible effects of cyclical changes in Mars' tilt and orbit on global sunlight patterns. Recent climate cycles are indicated by radar detection of subsurface icy deposits outside the polar regions, closer to the equator, where near-surface ice is not permanently stable. Other results reveal details of ancient streambeds, atmospheric hazes and motions of water, along with the ever-changing weather on Mars. Most observations from the orbiter will be discontinued for a few weeks while the sun is between Earth and Mars, which will disrupt communications. In December, the orbiter will begin a new phase, with science observations continuing as Mars makes another orbit around the sun, which takes approximately two Earth years. "This spacecraft truly exemplifies the best in capabilities to support science and other Martian spacecraft activities," said Michael Meyer, lead scientist for the Mars Exploration Program at NASA Headquarters in Washington. "MRO has exceeded its own goals and our expectations. We look forward to more discoveries as we continue to look at the Red Planet in spectacular detail." NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena manages the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter for NASA's Science Mission Directorate, Washington. Lockheed Martin Space Systems, Denver, is the prime contractor for the project and built the spacecraft. For more information about the mission, visit: http://www.nasa.gov/mro -end- From eric at meteoritewatch.com Thu Dec 11 19:56:54 2008 From: eric at meteoritewatch.com (Eric Wichman) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 16:56:54 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: How Bout A Meteorite Blog? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4941B6D6.70700@meteoritewatch.com> Hi All, List members and many meteorite friends have have asked me if I could help them build a website like mine. Usually I get asked how much I would charge for a complete meteorite website including web and image hosting. After building a number of meteorite websites for some of you guys it gave me an idea. Instead of charging normal prices well in excess of $300 to $500 for a complete e-commerce website and shopping cart system with all the bells and whistles, I wanted to find a way to build and host one for all meteorite people and Met List members less than $5 per month. Most people that inquired really wanted just a simple website that they can manage themselves and one that is easy to update, change pages, add photos etc. That seems to be the most people really want for their sites anyway. So I found something, and after some tinkering and figuring this is what I came up with. www.MeteoriteBlogs.com Let me know what you think and be sure to contact me if you have any questions. Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA P.S. If you like the idea please or if you have a suggestion, comment, or just plain want to yell at me I do want to hear back from you guys on this. Contact me Off-List or on list... doesn't matter, I'll answer any questions you have. From gmhupe at htn.net Thu Dec 11 20:17:27 2008 From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 20:17:27 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: How Bout A Meteorite Blog? References: <4941B6D6.70700@meteoritewatch.com> Message-ID: Hello Eric, While I am sure most List members appreciate your work and offer here, the last time someone hosted a meteorite blog, it bombed big time. People were impersonating others and talking a lot of trash. My advice would be to NOT start another meteorite blog. Best regards, Greg ==================== Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmhupe at htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 ==================== Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Wichman" To: Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 7:56 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: How Bout A Meteorite Blog? > Hi All, > > List members and many meteorite friends have have asked me if I could help > them build a website like mine. Usually I get asked how much I would > charge for a complete meteorite website including web and image hosting. > After building a number of meteorite websites for some of you guys it gave > me an idea. > > Instead of charging normal prices well in excess of $300 to $500 for a > complete e-commerce website and shopping cart system with all the bells > and whistles, I wanted to find a way to build and host one for all > meteorite people and Met List members less than $5 per month. > > Most people that inquired really wanted just a simple website that they > can manage themselves and one that is easy to update, change pages, add > photos etc. That seems to be the most people really want for their sites > anyway. So I found something, and after some tinkering and figuring this > is what I came up with. > > www.MeteoriteBlogs.com > > Let me know what you think and be sure to contact me if you have any > questions. > > Regards, > Eric Wichman > Meteorites USA > > P.S. If you like the idea please or if you have a suggestion, comment, or > just plain want to yell at me I do want to hear back from you guys on > this. Contact me Off-List or on list... doesn't matter, I'll answer any > questions you have. > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From bobl at peaktopeak.com Thu Dec 11 21:07:53 2008 From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 19:07:53 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: How Bout A Meteorite Blog? In-Reply-To: <4941B6D6.70700@meteoritewatch.com> Message-ID: <20081212020756.8E26F10560@mailwash5.pair.com> Hi Eric, You said the following in your e-mail: "I wanted to find a way to build and host one for all meteorite people and Met List members less than $5 per month." ... but it says $49 on the website. Typo? Regards, Bob -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Eric Wichman Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 5:57 PM To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: How Bout A Meteorite Blog? Hi All, List members and many meteorite friends have have asked me if I could help them build a website like mine. Usually I get asked how much I would charge for a complete meteorite website including web and image hosting. After building a number of meteorite websites for some of you guys it gave me an idea. Instead of charging normal prices well in excess of $300 to $500 for a complete e-commerce website and shopping cart system with all the bells and whistles, I wanted to find a way to build and host one for all meteorite people and Met List members less than $5 per month. Most people that inquired really wanted just a simple website that they can manage themselves and one that is easy to update, change pages, add photos etc. That seems to be the most people really want for their sites anyway. So I found something, and after some tinkering and figuring this is what I came up with. www.MeteoriteBlogs.com Let me know what you think and be sure to contact me if you have any questions. Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA P.S. If you like the idea please or if you have a suggestion, comment, or just plain want to yell at me I do want to hear back from you guys on this. Contact me Off-List or on list... doesn't matter, I'll answer any questions you have. ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com Thu Dec 11 23:43:59 2008 From: michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com (Michael Gilmer) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 20:43:59 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Asteroid Lamp In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <574123.2648.qm@web58402.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi Folks, I stumbled across this "asteroid lamp" that I thought might make an interesting way to light a display case. I have no idea what the price on it is. http://www.innermost.co.uk/products/products_lamps_asteroid.html Regards and clear skies, MikeG ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale .......................................................... From michael at spacerocksinc.com Fri Dec 12 00:01:16 2008 From: michael at spacerocksinc.com (Michael Johnson) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 21:01:16 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December 12, 2008 Message-ID: <7826599.2746471229058076429.JavaMail.root@mbs4.homesteadmail.com> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/December_12_2008.html From geeg48 at msn.com Fri Dec 12 00:52:22 2008 From: geeg48 at msn.com (GREG LINDH) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 22:52:22 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: THE BIG HOLIDAY SALE NOW STARTED! OVER $10, 000.00+ Starting out at 0.99 cents! References: <39A31447-6D8A-42CF-A3C4-6E50B994AE8B@gilanet.com> Message-ID: Hi Michael, My wife and I are retired and are living on our investments. Needless to say we've taken a huge torpedo in our finances this last year, so my meteorite buying is on an indefinite hold. But, I've got to tell you, you have got a drop dead, gorgeous collection, and your prices are for the most part, very reasonable. I've bought two meteorites from you in the past and love them both. I hope you stay in this business for a long time, if for no other reason than I just love to "window shop" your ads and drool. Regards, Greg Lindh ----- Original Message ----- From: "michael cottingham" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 8:48 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: THE BIG HOLIDAY SALE NOW STARTED! OVER $10,000.00+ Starting out at 0.99 cents! > Hello All! > > I have listed my BIG, BIG HOLIDAY SALE up on good ole ebay! 37 > Auctions with a value of over $10,000.00, started out at 0.99 cents. > Over 100 New specimens in my ebay store too. > > Highlights will soon be made ready, I just thought I would give > everyone the heads up for my best listing of the year! Good Luck. > > Go to: > > http://stores.ebay.com/voyage-botanica-natural-history > > > Highlights soon.... > > > Best Wishes and Thanks > > Michael Cottingham > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From eric at meteoritewatch.com Fri Dec 12 01:04:37 2008 From: eric at meteoritewatch.com (Eric Wichman) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 22:04:37 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: How Bout A Meteorite Blog? (Bob Loeffler) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4941FEF5.2060602@meteoritewatch.com> Bob, Not a typo at all... $5 per month is $60 per year. (12 months X $5mo = $60) I'm offering the blog site for $49 for the whole year including hosting. That come to about $4.08mo Eric ---------------------------- Hi Eric, You said the following in your e-mail: "I wanted to find a way to build and host one for all meteorite people and Met List members less than $5 per month." ... but it says $49 on the website. Typo? Regards, Bob From eric at meteoritewatch.com Fri Dec 12 01:06:37 2008 From: eric at meteoritewatch.com (Eric Wichman) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 22:06:37 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: How Bout A Meteorite Blog? (Greg Hupe) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4941FF6D.7040602@meteoritewatch.com> Greg, Thanks for the input. I appreciate that and it did cross my mind. People are gonna talk trash regardless. They talk trash on the Met-List too. All I'm offering are personal meteorite blog websites to members and meteorite people in general, not a central blog for everyone to gripe and complain. What they say on it is completely up to them. You or I could do the same on our websites if we wanted to but we don't because we respect other list members and meteorite people in general. I respect your advice, and opinion. Thanks, Eric ------------------------------------------- Hupe wrote: Hello Eric, While I am sure most List members appreciate your work and offer here, the last time someone hosted a meteorite blog, it bombed big time. People were impersonating others and talking a lot of trash. My advice would be to NOT start another meteorite blog. Best regards, Greg From qwalkra at mailbox.ezadsl.net.au Fri Dec 12 03:17:38 2008 From: qwalkra at mailbox.ezadsl.net.au (Bob WALKER) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 18:17:38 +1000 Subject: [meteorite-list] sale of scorpion bight main mass by http://qmig.org Message-ID: <9C97377AF291485C92D518808C9BCE73@your0a700f0aaf> Listoids I'm slightly overwhelmed by the replies on my proposal to sell a limited edition numbered micro of Australia's most ferocious meteorite (and possibly the world's most ferocious meteorite)... I am still in the throes of a wrestling match to obtain export approval but hopefully there is light at the end of the tunnel... at least I can claim the moral high ground... I would still like a thread on the most ferocious named meteorites - one listoid has come up to bat with Dingo Pup Donga and says but he has lost my illusions to ever be able to get a micro of it. I'm damn sure that there are many other ferocious names out there - I'd love a thread on the names of ferocious meteorites without having to sit for hours reading each page of the blue book... over to youse I need to unwind and vent a bit about why I have to sell a few of my prized finds... Rewind the clock twenty years or so when a young Robert H**G visited Australia and rewarded our fair country by raping pillaging and looting and illegally exporting many Australian chondrites... Much of this of course has long ago been onsold and most listoids were never aware that this happened but indeed many advanced collectors hold specimens of dubious provenance but this is perhaps part and parcel of our hobby... He wasn't the first and certainly not the last to rape loot pillage and illegally export was he Blaine... And where do we stand today... to bring back much of our heritage we have to wait until these specimens are disposed from private collections and sold on the open market... The main masses by now are no more and all that are (mostly) available are slices thereof indeed if you look hard enough there are oodles of illegally exported Queensland chondrites for sale by tthe doyens of the meteorite community aren't there Mike (not Michael or Mike F) And it still happens today with Tenham any many more and I won't bore you with who else or what chondrites... But the majority of stolen chondrites reside largely with the rich and famous who simply must have with no thought of what is best for the collecting community or the musem and university community but that is a rant for another day... our hobby can only survive in a co-operative approach with the museum and university community otherwise we are doomed as collectors by the encroaching legislation which slowly overtakes us every day simply by acts of a few who simply must hop on the first plane to have something whether it is legal or not... And do we have an over-reaching professional association that has the best wishes of the collecting community at heart - perhaps not - unfortunately I feel that the alleged guardian of our community has a dealers first attitude and covers up for the sins of its members (who are mostly dealers) - perhaps it is why so many do not wish to register or join any professional organisation I'm happy to receive any flak for the above - its time someone shouted it out... but all is not well in our community... for me to have to sell my prized finds to raise the funds to recover stolen chondrites is an overt symptom tha all is not well in our little community And you may ask what does our government do - phuckall - it isnt cost effective or successful to pursue the crimes of long long ago Over to youse but I stand firm on what I have written Ta From Carsten.Giessler at t-online.de Fri Dec 12 04:37:34 2008 From: Carsten.Giessler at t-online.de (Carsten Giessler) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 10:37:34 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Ebay Auctions - Nice Stuff! Message-ID: <494230DE.2020109@t-online.de> Dear List, i have some auctions at ebay ending soon, there is nice stuff! For example there is a big brecciated Capot Rey slice, 31 grams, a 12g. slice of DAG 222, LL5-6 (seldom offered) 10.7g endpiece of NWA 5348 - CO3 endpiece with CRUST of NWA 5018, a rare Eucrite (unbrecciated! Basalt) some nice type 3's... and much more! It's worth to take a look here: http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/gipometeorites_W0QQLHQ5fAuctionZ1QQ_trksidZp3911Q2ec0Q2em301 Many thanks for viewing, Carsten Ps.: When you use the link above, ebay isn't showing the auctions with zero bids here. I don't know the reason for this, but i hope it works at your side and you can see all the offered items. From marcin at meteoryty.pl Fri Dec 12 07:26:36 2008 From: marcin at meteoryty.pl (Marcin Cimala - PolandMET) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 13:26:36 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] CD and SA medals References: <494230DE.2020109@t-online.de> Message-ID: <004a01c95c54$e036b620$0d00000a@polandmezrd5i9> Hi I like some of the Sikhote Alin and Canyon Diablo medals. Person who sell them (or owner of them) pls contact me. -----[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-----[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]----- http://www.Meteoryty.pl marcin(at)meteoryty.pl http://www.PolandMET.com marcin(at)meteorite.pl http://www.Gao-Guenie.com GSM: +48 (793) kosmos --------[ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society ]-------- From michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com Fri Dec 12 09:43:36 2008 From: michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com (Michael Gilmer) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 06:43:36 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Real or Bogus? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8157.56049.qm@web58406.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi ladies and gentlemen (and friends watching at home!) - It's time to play America's favorite game - "REAL OR BOGUS?" http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320324463986 Today's offering comes from the intrepid world of eBay. Here we see something billed as real moon dust that was recovered from Neil Armstrong's camera magazine. So, I have to ask everyone who is playing - REAL OR BOGUS? (If I was a gambling man, I'd say BOGUS) Regards and clear skies, MikeG ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale .......................................................... From fuzzfoot at comcast.net Fri Dec 12 10:15:37 2008 From: fuzzfoot at comcast.net (Mike Bandli) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 15:15:37 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [meteorite-list] Real or Bogus? In-Reply-To: <1783001470.212241229094753804.JavaMail.root@sz0063a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <1545035058.212771229094937835.JavaMail.root@sz0063a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Hello Mike G, I can vouch for this item and tell you that it is the real deal. There have been several presentations made with swatches of BetaCloth or other materials stained with lunar dust. Florian has been the primary supplier of these presentations and it is all legit. You can read more about his presentations on the collectSPACE.com forums. I might note that stained hardware and artifacts are the only legal way to own lunar material from the Apollo missions. Owning several lunar meteorites, I could care less about buying 10 grains of Apollo lunar glass. BUT... what makes this artifact desirable (to me, anyway) is that it is an authentic artifact from Apollo 11 - the 'grail' of human exploration. Cheers, Mike Bandli ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Gilmer" To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 6:43:36 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: [meteorite-list] Real or Bogus? Hi ladies and gentlemen (and friends watching at home!) - It's time to play America's favorite game - "REAL OR BOGUS?" http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320324463986 Today's offering comes from the intrepid world of eBay. Here we see something billed as real moon dust that was recovered from Neil Armstrong's camera magazine. So, I have to ask everyone who is playing - REAL OR BOGUS? (If I was a gambling man, I'd say BOGUS) Regards and clear skies, MikeG ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale .......................................................... ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From freequarks at gmail.com Fri Dec 12 11:39:21 2008 From: freequarks at gmail.com (Dark Matter) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 09:39:21 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Real or Bogus? In-Reply-To: <1545035058.212771229094937835.JavaMail.root@sz0063a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <1783001470.212241229094753804.JavaMail.root@sz0063a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <1545035058.212771229094937835.JavaMail.root@sz0063a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <822da19a0812120839h6fb1953fkcbee4f2b823fa7ad@mail.gmail.com> http://www.earthtothemoon.com/ap_11_lunar_dust.html -Martin On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 8:15 AM, Mike Bandli wrote: > Hello Mike G, > > I can vouch for this item and tell you that it is the real deal. There have been several presentations made with swatches of BetaCloth or other materials stained with lunar dust. Florian has been the primary supplier of these presentations and it is all legit. You can read more about his presentations on the collectSPACE.com forums. > > I might note that stained hardware and artifacts are the only legal way to own lunar material from the Apollo missions. > > Owning several lunar meteorites, I could care less about buying 10 grains of Apollo lunar glass. BUT... what makes this artifact desirable (to me, anyway) is that it is an authentic artifact from Apollo 11 - the 'grail' of human exploration. > > Cheers, > > Mike Bandli > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Michael Gilmer" > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 6:43:36 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > Subject: [meteorite-list] Real or Bogus? > > Hi ladies and gentlemen (and friends watching at home!) - > > It's time to play America's favorite game - "REAL OR BOGUS?" > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320324463986 > > Today's offering comes from the intrepid world of eBay. Here we see > something billed as real moon dust that was recovered from Neil > Armstrong's camera magazine. > > So, I have to ask everyone who is playing - REAL OR BOGUS? > > (If I was a gambling man, I'd say BOGUS) > > Regards and clear skies, > > MikeG > > ......................................................... > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com > MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale > .......................................................... > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From yellowengine at earthlink.net Fri Dec 12 12:54:09 2008 From: yellowengine at earthlink.net (RJP) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 11:54:09 -0600 (GMT-06:00) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Moss Micro (thin slice) Message-ID: <24625274.1229104449927.JavaMail.root@elwamui-little.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Good Afternoon, Would anyone like a perfect (very thin) .6g slice of the Moss CO?.. I have an extra. Prices at $105 and I will cover USPS Priority postage with delivery confirmation. Paypal preferred. Not a bad deal, imo. Cheers, Ryan From mexicodoug at aim.com Fri Dec 12 12:55:23 2008 From: mexicodoug at aim.com (mexicodoug at aim.com) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 12:55:23 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Real or Bogus? In-Reply-To: <1545035058.212771229094937835.JavaMail.root@sz0063a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <8CB2A99F0EDBC5F-134-3C8@FWM-M30.sysops.aol.com> Hello listees, In this time for reflection and renewal, it's hard to have any complaints ... hmmm but, I just read this eBay auction and Mike B's post answering MikeG and feel the need to talk about an human exploration hero greater than Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin, the two explorers as mentioned in the auction link. Like the Mighty Boosh, the opportunistic seller is hocking his barely perceptible particules while forgetting the third crew member that literally wrote the book on piloting base and contingency plans for the Apollo 11 command module around the Moon while Neil and Buzz checked out. Hats off to (another) Mike ! The man who safely brought these guys back from the Moon, and I am thinking the first person to orbit the Moon solo while he was at it - Is that an accomplishment?) - what an experience! Being meteorite folk it is hard to say being on the Moon's surface wouldn't have been more spectacular, but I think being completely out of touch in the command module especially tranquilly flying over the far side of the Moon alone for a day at only 113 miles altitude with a world's responsibility on his shoulders ... Then to make be the orbital pickup of the module, which seems to me the hardest part of the whole voyage. THREE (3) Cheers for our favorite Florida swamp boy, Major General Collins! and for being a superb team member bringing back the first 20 Kg of the Moon! Best wishes, Christmas and Holiday Greetings to all, Doug -----Original Message----- From: Mike Bandli To: michael w gilmer Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Sent: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 10:15 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Real or Bogus? Hello Mike G, I can vouch for this item and tell you that it is the real deal. There have been several presentations made with swatches of BetaCloth or other materials stained with lunar dust. Florian has been the primary supplier of these presentations and it is all legit. You can read more about his presentations on the collectSPACE.com forums. I might note that stained hardware and artifacts are the only legal way to own lunar material from the Apollo missions. Owning several lunar meteorites, I could care less about buying 10 grains of Apollo lunar glass. BUT... what makes this artifact desirable (to me, anyway) is that it is an authentic artifact from Apollo 11 - the 'grail' of human exploration. Cheers, Mike Bandli ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Gilmer" To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 6:43:36 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: [meteorite-list] Real or Bogus? Hi ladies and gentlemen (and friends watching at home!) - It's time to play America's favorite game - "REAL OR BOGUS?" http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320324463986 Today's offering comes from the intrepid world of eBay. Here we see something billed as real moon dust that was recovered from Neil Armstrong's camera magazine. So, I have to ask everyone who is playing - REAL OR BOGUS? (If I was a gambling man, I'd say BOGUS) Regards and clear skies, MikeG ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale .......................................................... ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Fri Dec 12 13:37:32 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 10:37:32 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars Odyssey THEMIS Images: December 8-12, 2008 Message-ID: <200812121837.KAA07990@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> MARS ODYSSEY THEMIS IMAGES December 8-12, 2008 o Granicus Valles (Released 08 December 2008) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20081208a o Cerberus Fossae (Released 09 December 2008) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20081209a o Dark Slope Streaks (Released 10 December 2008) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20081210a o Terra Sabaea Channel (Released 11 December 2008) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20081211a o Polar Dunes (Released 12 December 2008) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20081212a All of the THEMIS images are archived here: http://themis.asu.edu/latest.html NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory manages the 2001 Mars Odyssey mission for NASA's Office of Space Science, Washington, D.C. The Thermal Emission Imaging System (THEMIS) was developed by Arizona State University, Tempe, in co.oration with Raytheon Santa Barbara Remote Sensing. The THEMIS investigation is led by Dr. Philip Christensen at Arizona State University. Lockheed Martin Astronautics, Denver, is the prime contractor for the Odyssey project, and developed and built the orbiter. Mission operations are conducted jointly from Lockheed Martin and from JPL, a division of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena. From daistiho at hotmail.com Fri Dec 12 16:57:51 2008 From: daistiho at hotmail.com (tracy latimer) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 21:57:51 +0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] Itqiy look-alikes Message-ID: A couple of years ago, I picked up a small slice of Itqiy and was promptly entranced by its oddball crystalline structure. Its classification is unique; nothing like it has ever been recovered. What meteorite(s) might be closest to it in composition/structure? Primitive achondrites? Enstatites? I've been going through the Meteoritical Bulletin database, but nothing strikes me as being similar, even meteorites like Saint-Severin, which is classified as an EH5. Any suggestions? Thanks, Tracy Latimer _________________________________________________________________ You live life online. So we put Windows on the web. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/127032869/direct/01/ From yellowengine at earthlink.net Fri Dec 12 17:04:13 2008 From: yellowengine at earthlink.net (RJP) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 16:04:13 -0600 (GMT-06:00) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD Moss Micro (thin slice) Message-ID: <29091418.1229119454175.JavaMail.root@mswamui-chipeau.atl.sa.earthlink.net> OK - Photo can now be found with my other pieces for sale: http://outdoors.webshots.com/album/569165160RMTnOx (thumbnails not working for some reason, just click) It is an absolutely perfect slice (1mm), but I don't need two.. so I'm passing along the savings. You will not find Moss at a lower price, anywhere. Pay by mail and I will take $5 off of the price. So.. $100 plus free USPS Priority Mail postage for this fine micromount. $105 through Paypal. Have a great weekend! Ryan -----Forwarded Message----- >From: RJP >Sent: Dec 12, 2008 11:54 AM >To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >Subject: AD: Moss Micro (thin slice) > >Good Afternoon, > >Would anyone like a perfect (very thin) .6g slice of the Moss CO?.. I have an extra. Prices at $105 and I will cover USPS Priority postage with delivery confirmation. Paypal preferred. Not a bad deal, imo. > >Cheers, > >Ryan From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Fri Dec 12 17:08:48 2008 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 12 Dec 2008 22:08:48 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] Itqiy look-alikes Message-ID: Tracy writes: "A couple of years ago, I picked up a small slice of Itqiy and was promptly entranced by its oddball crystalline structure. Its classification is unique; nothing like it has ever been recovered. What meteorite(s) might be closest to it in composition/structure? I'd say Zaklodzie is very close to it (but not identical) both in composition and structure "even meteorites like Saint-Severin, which is classified as an EH5." That's a typo like my Boxhole / Henbury typo yesterday! What you eanted to say is "Saint-Sauveur". Best wishes, Bernd From eric at meteoritewatch.com Fri Dec 12 16:57:47 2008 From: eric at meteoritewatch.com (Eric Wichman) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 13:57:47 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: How Bout A Meteorite Blog? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4942DE5B.4080808@meteoritewatch.com> Really!? Oops... Boy that was totally unexpected. Maybe I shouldn't have asked it as a question. I wasn't asking whether I should build a central meteorite blog for everyone to post lewd and libelous statements and trash talk. Many people want their own website, that's all I wanted to provide, and at a reasonable price. If people can't refrain from posting negative content and comments on a blog just to discredit some people or bad mouth others then you are right, the meteorite industry needs no blogs. Guess we're back to Static HTML based websites with no dynamic content, lazy pages, and cold hard text that never changes. Woohoo! Sounds exciting! Oh yeah, and it's about people who don't want to change. It's all about timing. My timing is obviously off on this one. The world is blogging and here's my prediction: Meteorite Blogs WILL be popping up in the near future. Nothing will be able to stop people from posting trash talk. People will do it regardless. (Press [Delete Comment]. Ban IP... Like Duh!) People will learn how powerful a marketing tool a blog really is. People will realize the search engines LOVE blogs. People will realize that blogs are websites too. lol Everyone will have a blog! Either way I'll admit that maybe this was a BAD IDEA or BAD TIMING! For now... :D lol oops... Thanks everyone for their input. I do appreciate it. It seems people don't want a blog. Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA From daistiho at hotmail.com Fri Dec 12 20:25:24 2008 From: daistiho at hotmail.com (tracy latimer) Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 01:25:24 +0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] More ? about Itqiy, Zaklodzie Message-ID: I have now heard from at least 3 parties who say that Itqiy is closest in composition to Zaklodzie (and a couple of people who gently corrected my typewriter dyslexia, Saint-Sauveur rather than Saint-Severin!). The pictures I have been able to find of Zaklodzie, however, don't show the texture very well; to my uneducated eye, it looks more like a common H5 (heresy!). One of the things I find striking about Itqiy is the coarse grained crystals that look almost like commercially available black granite slab. Anyone who has access to both Itqiy and Zaklodzie slices, do they actually look similar in section? I have to do more research into the processes that produce 2 so dissimilar textures with almost the same chemical makeups... Tracy Latimer _________________________________________________________________ You live life online. So we put Windows on the web. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/127032869/direct/01/ From geoking at notkin.net Fri Dec 12 20:26:50 2008 From: geoking at notkin.net (Notkin) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 18:26:50 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] [AD] eBay Sikhote with hole, rollover lip Taza, Neuvo Mercurio . . . Message-ID: Dear Listees: We have a number of intriguing meteorites currently on eBay, all closing this coming Sunday around 6 pm Pacific. Fans of oriented irons will want to check out this fabulous 10.3-gram Taza (NWA 859) with a 100% perfect rollover lip all the way around its trailing edge: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170285686475 Also of interest, a lovely Sikhote-Alin individual with natural hole: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160304001522 And a Nuevo Mercurio witnessed fall fusion crusted individual: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170285693025 As always. all of our meteorite auctions are NO RESERVE and other lots include Darwin Glass, a special slipcase edition of the "Oscar E. Monnig Meteorite Collection Catalog," and a very attractive complete slice of the Labenne Sahara 99034 chondrite (at just 99 cents!). All items up for auction can be seen here: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ25QQsassZaerolitemeteorites Instant recap with photos live and direct courtesy of Maestro Harris at Meteorite.com: http://www.meteorite.com/meteorite-dealers/dealer-listings/aerolite.htm Thanks for looking and all the best from The Baked Apple, Geoff N. www.aerolite.org www.campometeorites.com From hodgjt at yahoo.com Fri Dec 12 22:14:14 2008 From: hodgjt at yahoo.com (jeff hodges) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 19:14:14 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] New thin section photos Message-ID: <5467.90689.qm@web36706.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello All, I have added LOTS of new thin section pictures to my Thin Section Gallery website. Too many to list. Anyone interested please follow the link below. Thanks and enjoy! Jeff Hodges http://www.meteoritethinsectiongallery.com/Alphaindex.html From mikewren at gilanet.com Fri Dec 12 22:40:47 2008 From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 20:40:47 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: BEST SALE OF THE YEAR-HIGHLIGHTS ADDED! Message-ID: HAPPY HOLIDAYS TO ALL! Well it is well underway: 37 Auctions listed at 0.99 cents, with a retail value of over $10,000.00 and a Store wide sale on over 200 meteorite specimens from 10% to 30% off! The sale should be starting at any moment! Go to: http://stores.ebay.com/voyage-botanica-natural-history They are some great meteorites listed and some great prices! Highlights: Beautiful Iron, Sweden, MUONIONALUSTA, 774g, One Of The Largest Inclusions ever! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200286680831 Super Fine ESQUEL, Pallasite Slice, 20.28g, One of my last auction specimens! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200286721166 Beautiful GIBEON, IVA Iron Specimen, 432g. A fantastic complete slice! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200286721158 Seldom Available GRUVER, Texas, H4, 3.84g, nice one! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200286448362 Nice H3 From Namibia, KORRA KORRABES, 19.88g, Seldom available these days http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200286448373 Pallasite From Australia-HUCKITTA, 9.98 gram, cool looking. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200286448385 Super Rare Fall BATH FURNACE, Kentucky, 1.28g, These are my last specimens! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200286448407 Loaded W/Inclusions ODESSA, IAB, 346 gram CS, Do Not Miss This One! Museum Grade Slice! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200286691003 SEYMCHAN Meteorite with Beautiful Etching, 67 gram, Really Nice! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200286669080 BRENHAM, Siderite From Kansas, 15.65 gram, You got to see this part slice! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200286679720 Rare GLORIETA MOUNTAIN, Full Slice, 274 gram!, A complete Slice- Holiday Special- You will not see this again! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200286669088 Rare NWA 2696, Howardite From Africa, 4.00g, A real nice part slice. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200286448428 Rare NWA 2932, Mesosiderite, Nice! 2.02 gram, Again, another nice part slice! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200286448460 A very Rare EL3 From Africa, NWA 2965, 200g, THE BLUE TYPE! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200286448472 RARE, SILVERTON, Texas, H4, LTKW, 0.54 gram, Only A Few Left! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200286452520 CANYON DIABLO Individual, 342 gram, Avery nice individual! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200286452529 Seldom Available TULIA (b), Texas, L6, 0.51g, Nice slice. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200286665036 Seldom Available BRISCOE, Texas, L5, 4.56g, real nice. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200286665042 Classic GOLD BASIN, Arizona, L4, 52.79 gram, excellent individual! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200286665055 (NEW) NWA 4851, L6 With Shock Lines, 80.20g, I love this meteorite-it is so cool! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200286665040 Rare NWA 2635, Metachondrite-Achondrite,1.33g, Very rare and I only have a few! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200286665063 Rare Ureilite From Africa, NWA 2634, 1.21g, I only have a few of these. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200286665068 (New) NWA 4734, Lunar Specimen Display! Good Deal! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200286669077 Very Rare and Beautiful, NWA 801, CR2, 4.20g, running low on this one too! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200286679754 Ungrouped Ataxite, DRONINO, Russia, 109.62g, nice complete slice. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200286680835 Super Rare GEORGETOWN, Australia, 17.28 gram, This IS my very last slice to auction out at 0.99 cents. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200286711566 Amazing Lunar Highlands, NWA 5000, 0.184g, nice pieces! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200286721163 TULIA (a), Texas, H5, Complete Slice, 115.5g, Bigger than most Tulia Specimens for Sale! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200286721170 Extremely Rare NAVAJO, Arizona, IIAB Iron! Only piece I have. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200286721157 A Beautiful Sikhote-Alin, IIAB Iron, 244g, This is a GREAT COMPLETE SLICE! One of my last to offer! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200286699668 JIDDAT AL HARASIS 003, Oman, L5, 3.63 gram, I only have a couple left. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200286698869 (New) NWA 4881, Lunar Feldspathic Specimen, these are really nice and big! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200286669093 A Classic, OZONA, Texas, H6 Chondrite, 36.64g, This is a nice big slice! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200286679745 (New) Martian Shergottite, NWA 4925, "Mars", these are nice too! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200286669097 Classic GOLD BASIN, Arizona, L4, 26.46 gram, must look at this slice! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200286690992 An Early # NWA 103, L6 From Africa, 14.88g, you do not see this one too often! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200286698860 (NEW), LA LUZ, New Mexico, H4, LTKW, 13.17g, running low and when these are gone that is it! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200286691010 HERE ARE SOME SET PRICED AUCTIONS THAT ARE SWEET< SWEET DEALS! Super Fine ESQUEL, Pallasite Slice, 64g, A sweet deal for someone! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200287874445 Super Fine ESQUEL, Pallasite Slice, 106g NICE! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200287896502 MAIN MASS- NWA 2083, CO3, LTKW, 35.57g !!!!! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200287895439 Loaded W/Inclusions ODESSA, IAB, 928 gram EC, DO NOT LET THIS ONE PASS YOU UP! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200287885971 and many others!!! THANKS AND BEST WISHES MICHAEL COTTINGHAM From STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com Fri Dec 12 22:58:58 2008 From: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com (STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 22:58:58 EST Subject: [meteorite-list] New thin section photos Message-ID: Absolutely beautiful! Every one should go to this site. We all need some relaxation, why not relax while looking at meteorite hidden beauty. Not only is Jeff skilled at the microscope, he is very generous with his institutional sized thin section collection. Most of the exotic material I have in my Micrograph Gallery is a result of Jeff's loans to me. This would be "off the chart" cool for any one to do but when you look at his work as see how fantastic it is, well, it should give you an idea of what a great guy he is and how dedicated to the art of meteorite microphotography he is. So take a look and drop him an email to say thanks! Tom Phillips In a message dated 12/12/2008 8:14:23 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, hodgjt at yahoo.com writes: Hello All, I have added LOTS of new thin section pictures to my Thin Section Gallery website. Too many to list. Anyone interested please follow the link below. Thanks and enjoy! Jeff Hodges http://www.meteoritethinsectiongallery.com/Alphaindex.html ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) From cynapse at charter.net Fri Dec 12 23:26:16 2008 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 20:26:16 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: How Bout A Meteorite Blog? In-Reply-To: <4941B6D6.70700@meteoritewatch.com> References: <4941B6D6.70700@meteoritewatch.com> Message-ID: Key entries from a meteorite blog: "i wuz crusin around today and Jupiter TOTALLY just shoved me out of his way, and i was like "what'd i ever do to you" and he was all like not even noticin me and I was all like "what's up with that"" ... "You know that bright light we be always crusin around? It looks like its gettin' brighter every day. And warmer, too, I'm startin' to heat up! OMGWTFBBQ!" ... "Now theres a blue light, and its gettin bigger to. Startin to look like a ball. LOL! Whut?" ... "Did i say i was gettin hot before? Brah, i didn't know what hot waz! That big blue ball kept getting bigger and I was all like "get out of my way" and it was all like "eff you" and i hit it (but not in a good way) and I was like ON FIRE and i fell down and now im in a hole and i cant move and this is really some messed up $hit" From michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com Sat Dec 13 01:13:16 2008 From: michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com (Michael Gilmer) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 22:13:16 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Sharp eyes in Tanzania? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <769494.98934.qm@web58407.mail.re3.yahoo.com> 10 meteorites have been found in Tanzania. 9 of them are witnessed falls. That's a pretty good batting average I think. Is there any other nation with a similar high ratio of falls to finds? Some other trivia about Tanzania's 10 meteorites : 1) Rupota is the only witnessed fall of the L4-6 petrologic type. (same type as NWA 869) 2) Peramiho is a witnessed fall eucrite. 3) The massive ungrouped iron Mbosi is in Tanzania. 4) Ivuna is a witnessed fall CI1 carbonaceous, one of only 9 known. 5) the rest of Tanzania's falls include : an EL6, an LL6, and 3 OC's. Not too bad for only 10 meteorites. :) Regards and clear skies, MikeG ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale .......................................................... From michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com Sat Dec 13 01:16:19 2008 From: michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com (Michael Gilmer) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 22:16:19 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Make that 9 meteorites from Tanzania, not 10 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <853713.343.qm@web58406.mail.re3.yahoo.com> CORRECTION : Actually, there is only 9 meteorites from Tanzania, not 10 like I said in my original post! ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale .......................................................... From radio_ranch at yahoo.com Sat Dec 13 03:33:50 2008 From: radio_ranch at yahoo.com (Pat Brown) Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 00:33:50 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Real or Bogus? In-Reply-To: <8CB2A99F0EDBC5F-134-3C8@FWM-M30.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <837897.65161.qm@web51312.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hello fellow listoids, Mexico Doug's post about Michael Collins praises a lesser known hero of the Apollo program. IMNSHO, Michael Collins is also the most gifted author among his Apollo brethern. In his books _Carrying the Fire_ and _Liftoff_ Michael captures some of the awe in a project with superlative after superlative. It should also be noted that Michael's solo orbit of the moon made him the lonliest person ever up to that time. When Michael was on the opposite side of the moon from Earth (the so called dark side), he was the farthest individual human from any other humans. Following the United States manned spaceflight program kindled my interest in the pure and applied sciences and was a major formative experience for myself and most of my peers. And to think that decades later we are now the proud owners (or perhaps stewards) of meteorites including material from the moon.......wow. All this makes me proud to be an American. Best Regards, Pat Scientific Lifestyle Meteorites Engineer by Vocation, Meteorite Hunter While on Vacation --- On Fri, 12/12/08, mexicodoug at aim.com wrote: > From: mexicodoug at aim.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Real or Bogus? > To: fuzzfoot at comcast.net, michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Friday, December 12, 2008, 9:55 AM > Hello listees, > > > In this time for reflection and renewal, it's hard to > have any complaints ... hmmm but, I just read this eBay > auction and Mike B's post answering MikeG and feel the > need to talk about an human exploration hero greater than > Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin, the two explorers as > mentioned in the auction link. > > Like the Mighty Boosh, the opportunistic seller is hocking > his barely perceptible particules while forgetting the third > crew member that literally wrote the book on piloting base > and contingency plans for the Apollo 11 command module > around the Moon while Neil and Buzz checked out. Hats off > to (another) Mike ! The man who safely brought these guys > back from the Moon, and I am thinking the first person to > orbit the Moon solo while he was at it - Is that an > accomplishment?) - what an experience! Being meteorite folk > it is hard to say being on the Moon's surface > wouldn't have been more spectacular, but I think being > completely out of touch in the command module especially > tranquilly flying over the far side of the Moon alone for a > day at only 113 miles altitude with a world's > responsibility on his shoulders ... Then to make be the > orbital pickup of the module, which seems to me the hardest > part of the whole voyage. > > THREE (3) Cheers for our favorite Florida swamp boy, Major > General Collins! and for being a superb team member bringing > back the first 20 Kg of the Moon! > > Best wishes, Christmas and Holiday Greetings to all, > Doug > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike Bandli > To: michael w gilmer > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Sent: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 10:15 am > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Real or Bogus? > > > > Hello Mike G, > > I can vouch for this item and tell you that it is the real > deal. There have been > several presentations made with swatches of BetaCloth or > other materials stained > with lunar dust. Florian has been the primary supplier of > these presentations > and it is all legit. You can read more about his > presentations on the > collectSPACE.com forums. > > I might note that stained hardware and artifacts are the > only legal way to own > lunar material from the Apollo missions. > > Owning several lunar meteorites, I could care less about > buying 10 grains of > Apollo lunar glass. BUT... what makes this artifact > desirable (to me, anyway) is > that it is an authentic artifact from Apollo 11 - the > 'grail' of human > exploration. > > Cheers, > > Mike Bandli > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Michael Gilmer" > > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 6:43:36 AM GMT -08:00 > US/Canada Pacific > Subject: [meteorite-list] Real or Bogus? > > Hi ladies and gentlemen (and friends watching at home!) - > > It's time to play America's favorite game - > "REAL OR BOGUS?" > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320324463986 > > Today's offering comes from the intrepid world of eBay. > Here we see > something billed as real moon dust that was recovered from > Neil > Armstrong's camera magazine. > > So, I have to ask everyone who is playing - REAL OR BOGUS? > > (If I was a gambling man, I'd say BOGUS) > > Regards and clear skies, > > MikeG > > ......................................................... > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and > http://www.glassthrower.com > MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale > .......................................................... > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr Sat Dec 13 03:58:11 2008 From: Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr (Zelimir Gabelica) Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 09:58:11 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] More ? about Itqiy, Zaklodzie In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20081213085120.02982ca0@pop.univ-mulhouse.fr> Hi Tracy, Being the lucky owner of slices if similar size (about 2x2 cm) of Itqiy and Zaklodzie, I can tell you (qualitatively) that their textures are definitely different. However we all know that a macroscopic texture is very seldom characteristic of a meteorite type (most of the ordinary chondrites are the best examples). For "odd" meteorite types, as I am not at all expert, just curious, I love to browse through the wonderful web site of David Weir: http://www.meteoritestudies.com/ David reports (among other features) that, although Itqiy was classified in Met. Bull as "EH7-an", "while similarities do exist between Itqiy and EH or EL chondrites, the many inconsistencies make a definitive assignment (to EH group) tenious..." Founded upon the recent report published by "Keil & Bischoff, 2008" (so cited), he also states that: "Itqiy is very similar to NWA 2656 (btw classified as "E-achon" in Met. Bull.) "with which it shares many textural and morphological characteristics"...and also: "that both may have formed on the same parent body, distinct from that associated with EH, EL, Shallowater and aubrites"... We all know that one should only rely on the officially published data in Met. Bull. database. However as, on one hand, Weir very often reports data from recent publications (that he obviously summarizes or to which he possibly sometimes just adds some (to me always pertinent) comemnts) and, on the other hand, such data are not (always) reported in the database that, as one can understand, are not easy to update continuously, I like to keep Weir's updatings in mind for my best understanding, hoping that the new publications will sooner or later be taken into account officially. This being, I don't have the paper of Keil and Bischoff on hand to better compare. Perhaps Bernd can help ? Regarding similarities between Zaklodzie (classified in Met. Bull. as "E achon-ung" but that recent studies by Keil (2007) and Keil & Bischoff (2008) rather classify as E imb chondrite) and Itqiy, I encourage you to read the very informative statements Weir reports regarding Zaklodzie. He concludes: "...despite the very close similarities between Zaklodzie and the ungrouped enstatite achondrite Itqiy, their chemical end mineral compositions, noble gas contents and terrestrial ages EXCLUDE an origin of both meteorites from a common parent body". I am just reporting here some published data and my poor expertise in that domain does not pretend to solve the question. As a scientist, I learned that we should be cautious with new data but that, on the other hand, there can also be always some (minor or major) thruth behind. Assembling and summarizing (with expertise) such data is, among many other merits, the deep interest of David Weir's statements. I hope this helps. My best, Zelimir A 01:25 13/12/2008 +0000, tracy latimer a ?crit : >I have now heard from at least 3 parties who say that Itqiy is closest in >composition to Zaklodzie (and a couple of people who gently corrected my >typewriter dyslexia, Saint-Sauveur rather than Saint-Severin!). The >pictures I have been able to find of Zaklodzie, however, don't show the >texture very well; to my uneducated eye, it looks more like a common H5 >(heresy!). One of the things I find striking about Itqiy is the coarse >grained crystals that look almost like commercially available black >granite slab. Anyone who has access to both Itqiy and Zaklodzie slices, >do they actually look similar in section? > >I have to do more research into the processes that produce 2 so dissimilar >textures with almost the same chemical makeups... > >Tracy Latimer >_________________________________________________________________ >You live life online. So we put Windows on the web. >http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/127032869/direct/01/ >______________________________________________ >http://www.meteoritecentral.com >Meteorite-list mailing list >Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Universit? de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 From psc2410xi at yahoo.com Sat Dec 13 05:37:54 2008 From: psc2410xi at yahoo.com (Don Rawlings) Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 02:37:54 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: How Bout A Meteorite Blog? Message-ID: <442782.26118.qm@web59307.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Sounds like there is some real intelligent conversations going on there. LOL Don Rawlings --- On Fri, 12/12/08, Darren Garrison wrote: > From: Darren Garrison > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD: How Bout A Meteorite Blog? > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Friday, December 12, 2008, 11:26 PM > Key entries from a meteorite blog: > > "i wuz crusin around today and Jupiter TOTALLY just > shoved me out of his way, > and i was like "what'd i ever do to you" and > he was all like not even noticin me > and I was all like "what's up with > that"" > > ... > > > "You know that bright light we be always crusin > around? It looks like its > gettin' brighter every day. And warmer, too, I'm > startin' to heat up! > OMGWTFBBQ!" > > ... > > > "Now theres a blue light, and its gettin bigger to. > Startin to look like a > ball. LOL! Whut?" > > ... > > > "Did i say i was gettin hot before? Brah, i > didn't know what hot waz! That big > blue ball kept getting bigger and I was all like "get > out of my way" and it was > all like "eff you" and i hit it (but not in a > good way) and I was like ON FIRE > and i fell down and now im in a hole and i cant move and > this is really some > messed up $hit" > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From jgrossman at usgs.gov Sat Dec 13 07:55:51 2008 From: jgrossman at usgs.gov (Jeff Grossman) Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 07:55:51 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Sharp eyes in Tanzania? In-Reply-To: <769494.98934.qm@web58407.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <769494.98934.qm@web58407.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4943B0D7.2000404@usgs.gov> 40 countries have had ONLY falls and no finds, with Pakistan, Bangladesh, and Ireland leading the way with 15, 8, and 6 falls, respectively, and no finds. Other countries that outperform Tanzania in fall/find ratio are Sudan (9/1), Turkey (11/1), India (126/9) and Indonesia (16/1). Sudan is the anomaly here, as arid countries almost all have very low fall/find ratios. jeff Michael Gilmer wrote: > 10 meteorites have been found in Tanzania. 9 of them are witnessed > falls. That's a pretty good batting average I think. Is there any > other nation with a similar high ratio of falls to finds? > > Some other trivia about Tanzania's 10 meteorites : > > 1) Rupota is the only witnessed fall of the L4-6 petrologic type. (same type as NWA 869) > > 2) Peramiho is a witnessed fall eucrite. > > 3) The massive ungrouped iron Mbosi is in Tanzania. > > 4) Ivuna is a witnessed fall CI1 carbonaceous, one of only 9 known. > > 5) the rest of Tanzania's falls include : an EL6, an LL6, and 3 OC's. > > Not too bad for only 10 meteorites. :) > > Regards and clear skies, > > MikeG > > > ......................................................... > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com > MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale > .......................................................... > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > -- Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703) 648-6184 US Geological Survey fax: (703) 648-6383 954 National Center Reston, VA 20192, USA From tett at rogers.com Sat Dec 13 08:54:27 2008 From: tett at rogers.com (tett) Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 08:54:27 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Name the new Canadian fall References: <769494.98934.qm@web58407.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <4943B0D7.2000404@usgs.gov> Message-ID: Jeff and List, Wondering who has final authority in naming new meteorites? I know there are some general guidelines (nearest post office or town or landmark) but who has final say? Will the peopel from U of Calgary be allowed input? Can the met list opinion influence the final name? I am asking these questions in hopes of influencing the final name of the new Canadian fall. It has been rerefed to as Lone Rock (too John Waynish for a Canadian stone), Marsden (Not bad but no distinct Canadian sound), Lloydminster (Getting better) and Buzzard Coulee (Now we are talking!) Looking at the map there are some other cool names close by such as Unwin, Zumbro and Manitou Lake. Manitou being the Ojibwey name for the Great Spirit or spirits. Well, if it counts, my vote would be for Buzzard Coulee. Cheers, Mike Tettenborn, Owen Sound, Ontario From michael at spacerocksinc.com Sat Dec 13 09:11:06 2008 From: michael at spacerocksinc.com (Michael Johnson) Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 06:11:06 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December 13, 2008 Message-ID: <1108400.2853221229177466938.JavaMail.root@mbs4.homesteadmail.com> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/December_13_2008.html From jgrossman at usgs.gov Sat Dec 13 10:04:16 2008 From: jgrossman at usgs.gov (Jeff Grossman) Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 10:04:16 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Name the new Canadian fall In-Reply-To: References: <769494.98934.qm@web58407.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <4943B0D7.2000404@usgs.gov> Message-ID: <4943CEF0.7080408@usgs.gov> The final selection of a name rests with the Nomenclature Committee. They have guidelines about what characterizes a proper meteorite name (and contrary to popular belief, these do not say anything about post offices). However, there are no rules at all regarding who may propose a name for a new meteorite. Normally, the group that submits the initial characterization of the meteorite to the NomCom makes a suggestion about what the name should be. Surprisingly, there have been only a few cases where multiple suggestions have been made by different groups. A recent example was Carancas (vs. Desaguadero). I don't know how the committee would react to suggestions coming out of the community at large. I think they would probably give deference to the finder and/or initial-characterization team, unless a counter-suggestion was backed by a better reason than "too John Waynish" or "no distinct Canadian sound." But if I was doing the initial description of this meteorite, I would be thinking as you are. If I could pick from multiple names of nearby geographic features and some are boring and some are cool, I'd go for cool; if Buzzard Coulee was one of my choices, it would be a no-brainer (except that maybe folks from Saskatchewan would not want a name with the initials B.C.). Jeff tett wrote: > Jeff and List, > > Wondering who has final authority in naming new meteorites? I know > there are some general guidelines (nearest post office or town or > landmark) but who has final say? Will the peopel from U of Calgary be > allowed input? Can the met list opinion influence the final name? > > I am asking these questions in hopes of influencing the final name of > the new Canadian fall. It has been rerefed to as Lone Rock (too John > Waynish for a Canadian stone), Marsden (Not bad but no distinct > Canadian sound), Lloydminster (Getting better) and Buzzard Coulee (Now > we are talking!) > > Looking at the map there are some other cool names close by such as > Unwin, Zumbro and Manitou Lake. Manitou being the Ojibwey name for > the Great Spirit or spirits. > > Well, if it counts, my vote would be for Buzzard Coulee. > > Cheers, > > Mike Tettenborn, > Owen Sound, Ontario > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703) 648-6184 US Geological Survey fax: (703) 648-6383 954 National Center Reston, VA 20192, USA From tett at rogers.com Sat Dec 13 10:15:58 2008 From: tett at rogers.com (tett) Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 10:15:58 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Name the new Canadian fall In-Reply-To: <4943CEF0.7080408@usgs.gov> References: <769494.98934.qm@web58407.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <4943B0D7.2000404@usgs.gov> <4943CEF0.7080408@usgs.gov> Message-ID: <4943D1AE.2050802@rogers.com> Thanks Jeff for the insightful response. I suppose it will be 6+ months until we know and at least I have sown the seed for cool. I still remember the sad time when Bilanga-Yanga was shortened to Bilanga. Cheers!, Mike Tettenborn Jeff Grossman wrote: > The final selection of a name rests with the Nomenclature Committee. > They have guidelines about what characterizes a proper meteorite name > (and contrary to popular belief, these do not say anything about post > offices). However, there are no rules at all regarding who may > propose a name for a new meteorite. > > Normally, the group that submits the initial characterization of the > meteorite to the NomCom makes a suggestion about what the name should > be. Surprisingly, there have been only a few cases where multiple > suggestions have been made by different groups. A recent example was > Carancas (vs. Desaguadero). I don't know how the committee would > react to suggestions coming out of the community at large. I think > they would probably give deference to the finder and/or > initial-characterization team, unless a counter-suggestion was backed > by a better reason than "too John Waynish" or "no distinct Canadian > sound." > But if I was doing the initial description of this meteorite, I would > be thinking as you are. If I could pick from multiple names of nearby > geographic features and some are boring and some are cool, I'd go for > cool; if Buzzard Coulee was one of my choices, it would be a > no-brainer (except that maybe folks from Saskatchewan would not want a > name with the initials B.C.). > > Jeff > > tett wrote: >> Jeff and List, >> >> Wondering who has final authority in naming new meteorites? I know >> there are some general guidelines (nearest post office or town or >> landmark) but who has final say? Will the peopel from U of Calgary >> be allowed input? Can the met list opinion influence the final name? >> >> I am asking these questions in hopes of influencing the final name of >> the new Canadian fall. It has been rerefed to as Lone Rock (too John >> Waynish for a Canadian stone), Marsden (Not bad but no distinct >> Canadian sound), Lloydminster (Getting better) and Buzzard Coulee >> (Now we are talking!) >> >> Looking at the map there are some other cool names close by such as >> Unwin, Zumbro and Manitou Lake. Manitou being the Ojibwey name for >> the Great Spirit or spirits. >> >> Well, if it counts, my vote would be for Buzzard Coulee. >> >> Cheers, >> >> Mike Tettenborn, >> Owen Sound, Ontario >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > > From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com Sat Dec 13 10:29:10 2008 From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton) Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 07:29:10 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Name the new Canadian fall In-Reply-To: <4943CEF0.7080408@usgs.gov> Message-ID: <559488.94251.qm@web45601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> I have read several places, including a Nininger book that post offices were used to help determine the meteorite name. --- On Sat, 12/13/08, Jeff Grossman wrote: > From: Jeff Grossman > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Name the new Canadian fall > To: "tett" > Cc: "Meteorite-list" > Date: Saturday, December 13, 2008, 10:04 AM > The final selection of a name rests with the Nomenclature > Committee. They have guidelines about what characterizes a > proper meteorite name (and contrary to popular belief, these > do not say anything about post offices). However, there are > no rules at all regarding who may propose a name for a new > meteorite. > > Normally, the group that submits the initial > characterization of the meteorite to the NomCom makes a > suggestion about what the name should be. Surprisingly, > there have been only a few cases where multiple suggestions > have been made by different groups. A recent example was > Carancas (vs. Desaguadero). I don't know how the > committee would react to suggestions coming out of the > community at large. I think they would probably give > deference to the finder and/or initial-characterization > team, unless a counter-suggestion was backed by a better > reason than "too John Waynish" or "no > distinct Canadian sound." > But if I was doing the initial description of this > meteorite, I would be thinking as you are. If I could pick > from multiple names of nearby geographic features and some > are boring and some are cool, I'd go for cool; if > Buzzard Coulee was one of my choices, it would be a > no-brainer (except that maybe folks from Saskatchewan would > not want a name with the initials B.C.). > > Jeff > > tett wrote: > > Jeff and List, > > > > Wondering who has final authority in naming new > meteorites? I know there are some general guidelines > (nearest post office or town or landmark) but who has final > say? Will the peopel from U of Calgary be allowed input? > Can the met list opinion influence the final name? > > > > I am asking these questions in hopes of influencing > the final name of the new Canadian fall. It has been > rerefed to as Lone Rock (too John Waynish for a Canadian > stone), Marsden (Not bad but no distinct Canadian sound), > Lloydminster (Getting better) and Buzzard Coulee (Now we are > talking!) > > > > Looking at the map there are some other cool names > close by such as Unwin, Zumbro and Manitou Lake. Manitou > being the Ojibwey name for the Great Spirit or spirits. > > > > Well, if it counts, my vote would be for Buzzard > Coulee. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Mike Tettenborn, > > Owen Sound, Ontario > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > -- Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703) 648-6184 > US Geological Survey fax: (703) 648-6383 > 954 National Center > Reston, VA 20192, USA > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From asean-1 at xnet.ro Sat Dec 13 10:30:30 2008 From: asean-1 at xnet.ro (Razvan Andrei) Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 17:30:30 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] New fall in Romania References: <769494.98934.qm@web58407.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <4943B0D7.2000404@ usgs.gov><4943CEF0.7080408@usgs.gov > <4943D1AE.2050802@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1B4DE0229CDD4C20AAF80BDE0A03195B@asean1> Hi List I'm happy to announce a new fall in Romania. After a fireball seen in 3 counties and sonic booms, a stone of 6.2 kg was found in a little impact hole. I've seen the stone, my guess is that it is a L4 based on an XRF measurment of Fe and a close examination of the little broken surface. The true analysis will be performed in January next year. For the moment this is the only piece found and I dont think it will be available for the market. photos available at : http://www.flickr.com/photos/imca7652 Best regards, Andrei IMCA7652 _______________________________________________________________ Vodafone scaneaza automat toate mesajele impotriva virusilor folosind Trend Micro VirusWall. Vodafone automatically scans all messages for viruses using Trend Micro VirusWall. _______________________________________________________________ Nota: Este posibil ca produsul Trend Micro VirusWall sa nu detecteze toti virusii noi sau toate variantele lor. Va rugam sa luati in considerare ca exista un risc de fiecare data cind deschideti fisiere atasate si ca Vodafone Romania nu este responsabila pentru orice prejudiciu cauzat de decizia dvs. Disclaimer: It is possible that the Trend Micro VirusWall product may not be able to detect all new viruses and variants. Please be aware that there is a risk involved whenever opening e-mail attachments to your computer and that Vodafone Romania is not responsible for any damages caused by your decision to do so. From gmhupe at htn.net Sat Dec 13 10:34:30 2008 From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe) Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 10:34:30 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Name Game References: <769494.98934.qm@web58407.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <4943B0D7.2000404@usgs.gov><4943CEF0.7080408@usgs.gov> <4943D1AE.2050802@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1C60F3FD4A2F430AB92C4669C1EA6B17@Gregor> Hello Mike and Jeff, This reminds me of when (Amgala) Oum Dreyga was brought to being. Our team (Moroccan hunters and us) received the first of the stones to be recovered and submitted the type sample for classification and "Amgala" as the name. As more stones were recovered, "Amgala" was the recognized/used name (amongst collectors and some scientists). As some time went by, more, larger material was found in Oum Dreyga (approximately SSW from Amgala) and in between from Amgala. Some months after we sent in the classification, another team from France submitted a type sample and asked for the name, "Oum Dreyga", from which the name was officially recognized and "Amgala" became a synonym of it. I personally think that the area from which the first material was collected should be the assigned name (most likely the stones started falling here), but perhaps the area from which the largest stones were recovered was preferred by the committee. A fun lesson in naming, none the less! Best regards, Greg ==================== Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmhupe at htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 ==================== Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault ----- Original Message ----- From: "tett" To: "Jeff Grossman" Cc: "Meteorite-list" Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 10:15 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Name the new Canadian fall > Thanks Jeff for the insightful response. > > I suppose it will be 6+ months until we know and at least I have sown the > seed for cool. > > I still remember the sad time when Bilanga-Yanga was shortened to Bilanga. > > Cheers!, > > Mike Tettenborn > > > Jeff Grossman wrote: >> The final selection of a name rests with the Nomenclature Committee. >> They have guidelines about what characterizes a proper meteorite name >> (and contrary to popular belief, these do not say anything about post >> offices). However, there are no rules at all regarding who may propose a >> name for a new meteorite. >> >> Normally, the group that submits the initial characterization of the >> meteorite to the NomCom makes a suggestion about what the name should be. >> Surprisingly, there have been only a few cases where multiple suggestions >> have been made by different groups. A recent example was Carancas (vs. >> Desaguadero). I don't know how the committee would react to suggestions >> coming out of the community at large. I think they would probably give >> deference to the finder and/or initial-characterization team, unless a >> counter-suggestion was backed by a better reason than "too John Waynish" >> or "no distinct Canadian sound." >> But if I was doing the initial description of this meteorite, I would be >> thinking as you are. If I could pick from multiple names of nearby >> geographic features and some are boring and some are cool, I'd go for >> cool; if Buzzard Coulee was one of my choices, it would be a no-brainer >> (except that maybe folks from Saskatchewan would not want a name with the >> initials B.C.). >> >> Jeff >> >> tett wrote: >>> Jeff and List, >>> >>> Wondering who has final authority in naming new meteorites? I know >>> there are some general guidelines (nearest post office or town or >>> landmark) but who has final say? Will the peopel from U of Calgary be >>> allowed input? Can the met list opinion influence the final name? >>> >>> I am asking these questions in hopes of influencing the final name of >>> the new Canadian fall. It has been rerefed to as Lone Rock (too John >>> Waynish for a Canadian stone), Marsden (Not bad but no distinct Canadian >>> sound), Lloydminster (Getting better) and Buzzard Coulee (Now we are >>> talking!) >>> >>> Looking at the map there are some other cool names close by such as >>> Unwin, Zumbro and Manitou Lake. Manitou being the Ojibwey name for the >>> Great Spirit or spirits. >>> >>> Well, if it counts, my vote would be for Buzzard Coulee. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Mike Tettenborn, >>> Owen Sound, Ontario >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> >> >> > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From grf2 at verizon.net Sat Dec 13 10:36:33 2008 From: grf2 at verizon.net (Jerry Flaherty) Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 10:36:33 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December 13, 2008 References: <1108400.2853221229177466938.JavaMail.root@mbs4.homesteadmail.com> Message-ID: Wow! that's a different look. no wonder such a unique classification ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Johnson" To: "Meteorite List" Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 9:11 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December 13,2008 > http://www.rocksfromspace.org/December_13_2008.html > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com Sat Dec 13 11:08:42 2008 From: michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com (Michael Gilmer) Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 08:08:42 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] More Meteorite Geography Trivia In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <677957.68667.qm@web58402.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Some more meteorite-geography trivia : 1) Jamaica has one known meteorite, Lucky Hill, an iron IIIAB. What are the chances of a meteorite landing on a relatively-small island in the middle of a sea? This meteorite could have easily ended up on the bottom of the Caribbean, but instead it gets to spend it's days in a tropical beach paradise. (I hope it's stored with some dessicant!) 2) Iran has only 2 known meteorites - both of them witnessed falls! Naragh is an H6 hammer stone that penetrated the roof of a school on August 18, 1974. No casualties were reported. The other fall is Veramin, a mesosiderite, which fell around April 18, 1880. Veramin has been kept in Tehran's Golestan Palace since then. 3) Ireland has 6 recorded meteorites - all of them witnessed falls. (The Tanzanians have competition!) All of Ireland's meteorites have been OC's and one remains unclassified - Pettiswood. 4) Not to be left out, Northern Ireland (statisically seperatre from Ireland proper) has 2 known meteorites, both OC witnessed falls. 5) The United States has over 1519 approved meteorites! This US tally includes : 2 acapulcoites 5 aubrites 22 carbonaceous chondrites 2 diogenites 4 EL chondrites 11 eucrites more OC's than you can shake a magnetic cane at 4 howardites a boatload of irons 2 Martian meteorites (LA001/002 & Lafayette) 8 mesosiderites 18 pallasites 1 rumuruti chondrite 2 ureilites 2 winonaites :) ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale .......................................................... From majbaermann at web.de Sat Dec 13 11:33:58 2008 From: majbaermann at web.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Matthias_B=E4rmann?=) Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 17:33:58 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] New fall in Romania References: <769494.98934.qm@web58407.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <4943B0D7.2000404@usgs.gov><4943CEF0.7080408@usgs.gov> <4943D1AE.2050802@rogers.com> <1B4DE0229CDD4C20AAF80BDE0A03195B@asean1> Message-ID: <06DF752800C04F17B7AF9D8ECE5F36AA@thinkcentre> Hello Andrei, congratulations to Romania: what a wonderful stone! In addition it's always great to have photographs of the meteorite in situ. When did the fall exactly happen? My best, Matthias Baermann ----- Original Message ----- From: "Razvan Andrei" To: Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 4:30 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] New fall in Romania > > Hi List > > I'm happy to announce a new fall in Romania. After a fireball seen in 3 > counties and sonic booms, a stone > of 6.2 kg was found in a little impact hole. I've seen the stone, my guess > is that it is a L4 based on an > XRF measurment of Fe and a close examination > of the little broken surface. The true analysis will be > performed in January next year. For the moment > this is the only piece found and I dont think it will be > available for the market. > > photos available at : > http://www.flickr.com/photos/imca7652 > > Best regards, > Andrei > IMCA7652 > > > _______________________________________________________________ > Vodafone scaneaza automat toate mesajele impotriva virusilor folosind > Trend Micro VirusWall. > Vodafone automatically scans all messages for viruses using Trend Micro > VirusWall. > _______________________________________________________________ > Nota: Este posibil ca produsul Trend Micro VirusWall sa nu detecteze toti > virusii noi sau toate variantele lor. Va rugam sa luati in considerare ca > exista un risc de fiecare data cind deschideti fisiere atasate si ca > Vodafone Romania nu este responsabila pentru orice prejudiciu cauzat de > decizia dvs. > Disclaimer: It is possible that the Trend Micro VirusWall product may not > be able to detect all new viruses and variants. Please be aware that there > is a risk involved whenever opening e-mail attachments to your computer > and that Vodafone Romania is not responsible for any damages caused by > your decision to do so. > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From fcressy at prodigy.net Sat Dec 13 11:45:24 2008 From: fcressy at prodigy.net (Frank Cressy) Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 08:45:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: Re: More Meteorite Geography Trivia Message-ID: <574209.74056.qm@web80204.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello All, Michael wrote: > 1) Jamaica has one known meteorite, Lucky Hill, an > iron IIIAB. What are the chances of a meteorite landing on > a relatively small island in the middle of a sea? This > meteorite could have easily ended up on the bottom of > the Caribbean, but instead it gets to spend it's days > in a tropical beach paradise. I think Hawaii goes one better. Two meteorite falls, Honolulu (1825) and Palolo Valley (1949) both fell on Oahu, a small island in the much larger Pacific Ocean. Incidently both meteorites fell in the capitol of Honolulu only about five miles from one another. Cheers, Frank From Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr Sat Dec 13 12:00:34 2008 From: Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr (Zelimir Gabelica) Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 18:00:34 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: Re: More Meteorite Geography Trivia In-Reply-To: <574209.74056.qm@web80204.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20081213175032.029e68b0@pop.univ-mulhouse.fr> Frank is perfectly right. Now, if you take into account the ratio between the weight (kg) and the island surface area, you can calculate the average number of meteorite kg thet fell per square km for 3 small islands (there could be more) Island surface (km2) Meteorite tkw kg/km2 (x 10-3) Oahu 1545 Honolulu + P. Valley 3.682 2.38 Mauritius 1866 Mauritius 0.222 0.189 Jamaica 11425 Lucky Hill 20.4+ 1.79+ Now taking 2 small countries (I did not go through all): Lesotho 30355 Thuathe 30+ 0.99 Swaziland 17363 Dwaleni 3.230 0.186 In all cases Oahu wins... Good going for other weird evaluations! Cheers Zelimir A 08:45 13/12/2008 -0800, Frank Cressy a ?crit : > Hello All, > > Michael wrote: > > > > 1) Jamaica has one known meteorite, Lucky Hill, an > > iron IIIAB. What are the chances of a meteorite landing on > > a relatively small island in the middle of a sea? This > > meteorite could have easily ended up on the bottom of > > the Caribbean, but instead it gets to spend it's days > > in a tropical beach paradise. > >I think Hawaii goes one better. Two meteorite falls, >Honolulu (1825) and Palolo Valley (1949) both fell on Oahu, >a small island in the much larger Pacific Ocean. Incidently >both meteorites fell in the capitol of Honolulu only about five miles from >one another. > >Cheers, > >Frank >______________________________________________ >http://www.meteoritecentral.com >Meteorite-list mailing list >Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Universit? de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 From cynapse at charter.net Sat Dec 13 03:10:28 2008 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 00:10:28 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] Interesting meteorite speculation In-Reply-To: <769494.98934.qm@web58407.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <769494.98934.qm@web58407.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4ar6k4to9ee3r2r7o0f5171cqtnk9nt7ej@4ax.com> Probably nothing to this. But if Carancas had hit a building containing flammable materials instead of wet soil, think it could have started a fire? http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/newsdetail1.asp?storyID=149525 Big fire damages warehouse building 14/12/2008 4:16:20 A spectacular fire stopped traffic and drew crowds of onlookers in Auckland last night. The blaze broke out in a warehouse on the intersection of Ponsonby Road and McKelvie Street and eight appliances and two aerial appliances were used to quell it. Firefighters were dampening down hotspots but by 11.30 the fire was out. A man was inside the building at the time. He was taken out and treated for a minor cut to his arm. No nearby buildings were damaged, but the warehouse roof collapsed in the centre. The Fire Service is not saying yet whether it suspects the blaze was suspicious. Some people were convinced the fire was caused by what may have been a meteorite, which was seen from various parts of the upper North Island streaking across the sky just after 10 o'clock. Several callers claim the light in the sky was very bright, and it was described by some as a blinding flash. Others said it was trailing smoke. One man, Mike, says he saw the object crash with an exploding noise in the Ponsonby area, and reckons it could have started the fire. From Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr Sat Dec 13 12:12:10 2008 From: Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr (Zelimir Gabelica) Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 18:12:10 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: Re: More Meteorite Geography Trivia In-Reply-To: <574209.74056.qm@web80204.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20081213181151.029e7300@pop.univ-mulhouse.fr> Frank is perfectly right. Now, if you take into account the ratio between the weight (kg) and the island surface area, you can calculate the average number of meteorite kg thet fell per square km for 3 small islands (there could be more) Island surface (km2) Meteorite tkw kg/km2 (x 10-3) Oahu 1545 Honolulu + P. Valley 3.682 2.38 Mauritius 1866 Mauritius 0.222 0.189 Jamaica 11425 Lucky Hill 20.4+ 1.79+ Now taking 2 small countries (I did not go through all): Lesotho 30355 Thuathe 30+ 0.99 Swaziland 17363 Dwaleni 3.230 0.186 In all cases Oahu wins... Good going for other weird evaluations! Cheers Zelimir A 08:45 13/12/2008 -0800, Frank Cressy a ?crit : > Hello All, > > Michael wrote: > > > > 1) Jamaica has one known meteorite, Lucky Hill, an > > iron IIIAB. What are the chances of a meteorite landing on > > a relatively small island in the middle of a sea? This > > meteorite could have easily ended up on the bottom of > > the Caribbean, but instead it gets to spend it's days > > in a tropical beach paradise. > >I think Hawaii goes one better. Two meteorite falls, >Honolulu (1825) and Palolo Valley (1949) both fell on Oahu, >a small island in the much larger Pacific Ocean. Incidently >both meteorites fell in the capitol of Honolulu only about five miles from >one another. > >Cheers, > >Frank >______________________________________________ >http://www.meteoritecentral.com >Meteorite-list mailing list >Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Universit? de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Sat Dec 13 12:40:20 2008 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 13 Dec 2008 17:40:20 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] Itqiy and Zaklodzie Message-ID: Hi Tracy, Z?limir and List, Z?limir: "I can tell you (qualitatively) that their textures are definitely different." Tracy: "Itqiy and Zaklodzie slices, do they actually look similar in section?" No, they don't look similar at all! They have totally different grain sizes. Itqiy has a grain size that ranges from 0.5-1.7 mm in my specimen, whereas crystals in my tiny Zaklodzie slice have an average grain size of < 0.5 mm. Tracy: "Zaklodzie, however,...don't show the texture very well" Zaklodzie is very hard to photograph. I've tried but without satisfactory results. I've also put my two smallish slices of Zaklodzie and Itqiy under the microscope and have taken pictures of them both side by side. Moderate result but one can clearly see the difference in texture. While it was quite difficult to take pics of my Zaklodzie slice, it was relatively easy to take pics of my Zaklodzie thin section in XP (cross-polarized) light. Z?limir: "Itqiy is very similar to NWA 2656 (btw classified as "E-achon" in Met. Bull.)" Huh?! NWA 2656 is classified as an acapulcoite! My itsy-bitsy 0.29-gram slice of that acapulcoite is even harder to photograph than the Zaklodzie :-( Klaus Keil, Addi Bischoff (2008) NWA 2526: A partial melt residue of enstatite chondrite parentage (MAPS 43-7, 2008, pp. 1233-1240): Well, the meteorite Z?limir is referring to, that's NWA 2526 and in the last two sentences of the abstract you'll find this: "These similarities indicate that NWA 2526 and Itqiy may have formed on the same parent body. This body was different from the EH, EL, Shallowater and aubrite parent bodies, and NWA 2526 and Itqiy may represent samples from yet another, fifth enstatite meteorite parent body." Best, Bernd From p.marmet at sunrise.ch Sat Dec 13 13:06:02 2008 From: p.marmet at sunrise.ch (Peter Marmet) Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 19:06:02 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Stunning Lunar: More pieces added! Message-ID: <871799a20812131006v58b263d6rd2a426696f040797@mail.gmail.com> Hello All, we just added a few more pieces of the stunning LUNAR NWA 4734...still at a real discount price! Please see here: http://www.marmet-meteorites.com/id44.html Thank you, Peter Peter Marmet Bern, Switzerland IMCA #2747 p.marmet at mysunrise.ch http://www.marmet-meteorites.com/ From bobl at peaktopeak.com Sat Dec 13 13:07:49 2008 From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 11:07:49 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: How Bout A Meteorite Blog? (Bob Loeffler) In-Reply-To: <4941FEF5.2060602@meteoritewatch.com> Message-ID: <20081213180753.E486510608@mailwash5.pair.com> Hi Eric and list, Sorry about that. My bad math skills; not a typo. :-) Regards, Bob -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Eric Wichman Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 11:05 PM To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD: How Bout A Meteorite Blog? (Bob Loeffler) Bob, Not a typo at all... $5 per month is $60 per year. (12 months X $5mo = $60) I'm offering the blog site for $49 for the whole year including hosting. That come to about $4.08mo Eric ---------------------------- Hi Eric, You said the following in your e-mail: "I wanted to find a way to build and host one for all meteorite people and Met List members less than $5 per month." ... but it says $49 on the website. Typo? Regards, Bob ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Sat Dec 13 13:11:40 2008 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 12:11:40 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] More Meteorite Geography Trivia References: <677957.68667.qm@web58402.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001e01c95d4e$4021d0c0$a62ae146@ATARIENGINE> Hi, List, Michael wrote: > What are the chances of a meteorite landing on > a relatively-small island in the middle of a sea? Well, the answer is that the chances of a meteorite landing anywhere are exactly the same as of it landing anywhere else. The "landing" of a meteorite is as purely random an event as any natural event can be. There is no causal connection between the path of the meteoroid and the geography of the Earth or indeed, anything about the Earth except that it got in the way of the meteoroid. If you were standing idly about in your front yard and a meteorite whizzed down and landed in front of your feet, you would jump and scream, "OMG! What are the odds of that?!" But the odds of that meteorite landing on the square meter you were standing on is unaffected by the fact that you were standing there. Likewise, any square meter you stand on, anywhere, is as likely to have a meteorite land on it as any other, whether that square meter of Earth is land or sea, for example. (Since nearly 70% of the Earth is water, 70% of all meteorites land there.) So, when you go out into your front yard tonight to wait for that meteorite to land at your feet, you can stand anywhere in the yard you want to! (Or sit in a yard chair, if you want; that doesn't affect the odds either.) Don't laugh! The meteorite that lands -- Plop! -- at someone's feet in the front yard has actually happened, and in relatively recent times. Check out the NOBLESVILLE (Indiana) fall. Sterling K. Webb ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Gilmer" To: Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 10:08 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] More Meteorite Geography Trivia Some more meteorite-geography trivia : 1) Jamaica has one known meteorite, Lucky Hill, an iron IIIAB. What are the chances of a meteorite landing on a relatively-small island in the middle of a sea? This meteorite could have easily ended up on the bottom of the Caribbean, but instead it gets to spend it's days in a tropical beach paradise. (I hope it's stored with some dessicant!) 2) Iran has only 2 known meteorites - both of them witnessed falls! Naragh is an H6 hammer stone that penetrated the roof of a school on August 18, 1974. No casualties were reported. The other fall is Veramin, a mesosiderite, which fell around April 18, 1880. Veramin has been kept in Tehran's Golestan Palace since then. 3) Ireland has 6 recorded meteorites - all of them witnessed falls. (The Tanzanians have competition!) All of Ireland's meteorites have been OC's and one remains unclassified - Pettiswood. 4) Not to be left out, Northern Ireland (statisically seperatre from Ireland proper) has 2 known meteorites, both OC witnessed falls. 5) The United States has over 1519 approved meteorites! This US tally includes : 2 acapulcoites 5 aubrites 22 carbonaceous chondrites 2 diogenites 4 EL chondrites 11 eucrites more OC's than you can shake a magnetic cane at 4 howardites a boatload of irons 2 Martian meteorites (LA001/002 & Lafayette) 8 mesosiderites 18 pallasites 1 rumuruti chondrite 2 ureilites 2 winonaites :) ...........................................