From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Tue Jul 1 03:03:48 2008 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 02:03:48 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Tunguska.. References: <29A9DB45B84970458190D7D39BD42C4934F58F@gamma.ssl.atw> Message-ID: <05f801c8db48$9cfd18a0$2346e146@ATARIENGINE> Hi, All, Mark wrote: > are we really anywhere further forward explaining it? The list of (so-called) possibilities is long. It's a zoo that contains some really weird critters: http://www.space.com/news/080630-mm-tunguska-mystery.html This article summarizes them: asteroids, comets, mini black holes, antimatter, terrestrial cryptovolcanic gas eruption, UFO's, and Nikola Tesla testing his Death Ray! Why should Tunguska (apart from the size of the blast) attract so many whacky and "mysterious" explanations? The answer is simple. Lack of material evidence. If one could have walked around Arizona's Meteor Crater a century ago or more, many thousands of tons of evidence abundantly littered the surrounding territory, making the case for extraterrestrial origin hard to deny. Despite many claims, no clear and undisputed material can be identified as a portion of the Tunguska impactor, no stones, no fragments, not even the microspherules nor the dust particles claimed to come from it. Only a big Zero. Secondly, there's the lack of a really big hole in the ground! Or even a very small hole in the ground... No chunks, no holes -- it's an invitation to fantasy. It's also an invitation to the reconstructionist tendencies natural to science. We start hypothesizing and modeling, with or without computers. For example, if the object had been an iron this size (mass), it would have made it to the ground without question. If it had been a stone of this size (diameter), it would have airburst at a much, much higher altitude than Tunguska's 25,000 to 30,000 feet. You start fiddling with the models, increase the size, decrease the density, up the speed a bit, and so forth... It's an exercise, because at the end there's no actual evidential result to compare it to. Some of the "theories" only work by ignoring some huge chunk of the evidence. There is a wide-spread and erroneous belief, for example, that a bolide was not sighted. That is the assumption of the black hole, antimatter and gas explosion theories. On the contrary, A. V. Voznesensky collected such reports long before Kulik went to Tunguska and estimated it must have been seen by many thousands of people even in "empty" Siberia; he collected nearly 100 reports over a sighting line nearly 1000 miles long. The bolide was, as you might expect, spectacular, many times brighter than the Sun and followed by an immense black dust trail that blackened the sky after the bolide had passed. Whatever was left to airburst over the swamp could only have been a tiny fraction of the original object. It is worth noting that the climatic cycle of that region is extreme, from a moderately warm wet swamp in the summer to... hey, it's Siberia! I discovered that you can get the weather for Vanavara on the internet. It was 79 F today; the low will be 55 F; the humidity was 70%; the day will be 19 hours long, 22 hours if you count twilight. But last January 10th (2008), the high temperature was -35 F; the low was -61 F, and it was snowing... The day was about 4 hours long. It was 19 years before Kulik's first trip to the site. IF there were any stones, how you suppose they dealt with an annual cycle of 150 degrees of temperature change while sitting in a swamp? Assuming that they were fragile stones (and the low airburst suggests that), I think they would be... hmmm, looks like mud to me. What would Carancas look like if we waited twenty years to go look for it in the river bed and along the shore? There is a great deal of data and observations about Tunguska accumulated through the years. An example is the careful mapping of the fall zone. It appears that rather than one epicenter for the radial pattern of fallen trees, there are four epicenters around the "telegraph pole" forest, each with its own radial pattern that, at greater distances, merges into an overall pattern, suggesting that there was a last fragmentation of the object an instant before the terminal airburst. Worth looking over is this archive: http://omzg.sscc.ru/tunguska/index.html I suggest reading Vasilyev's long article, and there are two articles by Roy Gallant on this site that are well worth the time. Here is a treasure trove of translated contemporary witness reports. I am often derided for my interest in actual data (so inferior to computer models), but this is a ton of data! http://www.vurdalak.com/tunguska/witness/witnesses.htm Thoughtfully posted on the internet by a Black Hole Believer! Here's the photos from Kulik's 1938 aerial survey: http://www-th.bo.infn.it/tunguska/APS-photolist.htm and a lot more stuff on the Tunguska Home Page http://www-th.bo.infn.it/tunguska/ Here's the "tree particle" resin-trapped cosmic dust argument, for what it's worth: http://www-th.bo.infn.it/tunguska/papers/pss2.html The case for Asteroidal Origin of the object, very well done -- the sort thing that convinces me as long as I keep reading; the doubt only creeps in afterward... http://www-th.bo.infn.it/tunguska/aah2886.pdf Think it's a comet nuclei? What is a comet nuclei anyway? https://openaccess.leidenuniv.nl/bitstream/1887/7074/1/A%26A_330_375_380.pdf The 100th Anniversary article in Scientific American: http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=the-tunguska-mystery-100-years-later There's a discussion of Lake Checko in there, because it's the hot new Tunguska topic. I'm waiting to be convinced, guys. It was 79 there today -- go get a nice drill core of the meteorite at the bottom of that lake for us... (They ALWAYS say the meteorite is under the bottom of the lake or under the floor of the crater or... It's like a case of Meteorite Fever.) The major Soviet investigation in 1961, with 78 scientists, made this report, originally published in "Meteoritica" (1963): http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/tungmet.html Here's the gas explosion theory interestingly defended. Shame about that bolide: http://www.ias.ac.in/currsci/aug252001/399.pdf and http://www.chjaa.org/2003/Italy/55.pdf There lots of strange theories. Here are some more. Scroll down about halfway and read about the isotopic composition of the peat in the swamp at the 1908 level: http://olkhov.narod.ru/conf98.htm and a interesting gallery of pictures not to be missed: http://olkhov.narod.ru/pictures.htm You can even listen to the impact. Well, OK, it's a reconstruction based on the witness accounts, but it's an interesting idea for something to do if you're an astronomer and an audio-nut: http://planetologia.elte.hu/1cikkeke.phtml?cim=tunguska.html I left out the UFO pages, Mark. You want Tunguska solutions? Go crazy! Sterling K. Webb ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Ford" To: Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 2:22 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Tunguska.. Tunguska 100 years today - deserves a mention! And are we really anywhere further forward explaining it? I wonder. Best, Mark From mark.ford at ssl.gb.com Tue Jul 1 04:15:44 2008 From: mark.ford at ssl.gb.com (Mark Ford) Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 09:15:44 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Tunguska.. In-Reply-To: <05f801c8db48$9cfd18a0$2346e146@ATARIENGINE> References: <29A9DB45B84970458190D7D39BD42C4934F58F@gamma.ssl.atw> <05f801c8db48$9cfd18a0$2346e146@ATARIENGINE> Message-ID: <29A9DB45B84970458190D7D39BD42C4934F59B@gamma.ssl.atw> Hi Sterling, As ever, a superb post. And I'm glad someone even mentioned it, as it was last century's greatest meteorite fall! (if indeed that is what it is). >>(They ALWAYS say the meteorite is under the bottom of the lake or under the floor of the crater or... It's like a >>case of Meteorite Fever.) Oh how true! - There's space rock in them there valleys! Mark -----Original Message----- From: Sterling K. Webb [mailto:sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net] Sent: 01 July 2008 08:04 To: Mark Ford; Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Tunguska.. Hi, All, Mark wrote: > are we really anywhere further forward explaining it? The list of (so-called) possibilities is long. It's a zoo that contains some really weird critters: http://www.space.com/news/080630-mm-tunguska-mystery.html This article summarizes them: asteroids, comets, mini black holes, antimatter, terrestrial cryptovolcanic gas eruption, UFO's, and Nikola Tesla testing his Death Ray! Why should Tunguska (apart from the size of the blast) attract so many whacky and "mysterious" explanations? The answer is simple. Lack of material evidence. If one could have walked around Arizona's Meteor Crater a century ago or more, many thousands of tons of evidence abundantly littered the surrounding territory, making the case for extraterrestrial origin hard to deny. Despite many claims, no clear and undisputed material can be identified as a portion of the Tunguska impactor, no stones, no fragments, not even the microspherules nor the dust particles claimed to come from it. Only a big Zero. Secondly, there's the lack of a really big hole in the ground! Or even a very small hole in the ground... No chunks, no holes -- it's an invitation to fantasy. It's also an invitation to the reconstructionist tendencies natural to science. We start hypothesizing and modeling, with or without computers. For example, if the object had been an iron this size (mass), it would have made it to the ground without question. If it had been a stone of this size (diameter), it would have airburst at a much, much higher altitude than Tunguska's 25,000 to 30,000 feet. You start fiddling with the models, increase the size, decrease the density, up the speed a bit, and so forth... It's an exercise, because at the end there's no actual evidential result to compare it to. Some of the "theories" only work by ignoring some huge chunk of the evidence. There is a wide-spread and erroneous belief, for example, that a bolide was not sighted. That is the assumption of the black hole, antimatter and gas explosion theories. On the contrary, A. V. Voznesensky collected such reports long before Kulik went to Tunguska and estimated it must have been seen by many thousands of people even in "empty" Siberia; he collected nearly 100 reports over a sighting line nearly 1000 miles long. The bolide was, as you might expect, spectacular, many times brighter than the Sun and followed by an immense black dust trail that blackened the sky after the bolide had passed. Whatever was left to airburst over the swamp could only have been a tiny fraction of the original object. It is worth noting that the climatic cycle of that region is extreme, from a moderately warm wet swamp in the summer to... hey, it's Siberia! I discovered that you can get the weather for Vanavara on the internet. It was 79 F today; the low will be 55 F; the humidity was 70%; the day will be 19 hours long, 22 hours if you count twilight. But last January 10th (2008), the high temperature was -35 F; the low was -61 F, and it was snowing... The day was about 4 hours long. It was 19 years before Kulik's first trip to the site. IF there were any stones, how you suppose they dealt with an annual cycle of 150 degrees of temperature change while sitting in a swamp? Assuming that they were fragile stones (and the low airburst suggests that), I think they would be... hmmm, looks like mud to me. What would Carancas look like if we waited twenty years to go look for it in the river bed and along the shore? There is a great deal of data and observations about Tunguska accumulated through the years. An example is the careful mapping of the fall zone. It appears that rather than one epicenter for the radial pattern of fallen trees, there are four epicenters around the "telegraph pole" forest, each with its own radial pattern that, at greater distances, merges into an overall pattern, suggesting that there was a last fragmentation of the object an instant before the terminal airburst. Worth looking over is this archive: http://omzg.sscc.ru/tunguska/index.html I suggest reading Vasilyev's long article, and there are two articles by Roy Gallant on this site that are well worth the time. Here is a treasure trove of translated contemporary witness reports. I am often derided for my interest in actual data (so inferior to computer models), but this is a ton of data! http://www.vurdalak.com/tunguska/witness/witnesses.htm Thoughtfully posted on the internet by a Black Hole Believer! Here's the photos from Kulik's 1938 aerial survey: http://www-th.bo.infn.it/tunguska/APS-photolist.htm and a lot more stuff on the Tunguska Home Page http://www-th.bo.infn.it/tunguska/ Here's the "tree particle" resin-trapped cosmic dust argument, for what it's worth: http://www-th.bo.infn.it/tunguska/papers/pss2.html The case for Asteroidal Origin of the object, very well done -- the sort thing that convinces me as long as I keep reading; the doubt only creeps in afterward... http://www-th.bo.infn.it/tunguska/aah2886.pdf Think it's a comet nuclei? What is a comet nuclei anyway? https://openaccess.leidenuniv.nl/bitstream/1887/7074/1/A%26A_330_375_380 .pdf The 100th Anniversary article in Scientific American: http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=the-tunguska-mystery-100-years-later There's a discussion of Lake Checko in there, because it's the hot new Tunguska topic. I'm waiting to be convinced, guys. It was 79 there today -- go get a nice drill core of the meteorite at the bottom of that lake for us... (They ALWAYS say the meteorite is under the bottom of the lake or under the floor of the crater or... It's like a case of Meteorite Fever.) The major Soviet investigation in 1961, with 78 scientists, made this report, originally published in "Meteoritica" (1963): http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/tungmet.html Here's the gas explosion theory interestingly defended. Shame about that bolide: http://www.ias.ac.in/currsci/aug252001/399.pdf and http://www.chjaa.org/2003/Italy/55.pdf There lots of strange theories. Here are some more. Scroll down about halfway and read about the isotopic composition of the peat in the swamp at the 1908 level: http://olkhov.narod.ru/conf98.htm and a interesting gallery of pictures not to be missed: http://olkhov.narod.ru/pictures.htm You can even listen to the impact. Well, OK, it's a reconstruction based on the witness accounts, but it's an interesting idea for something to do if you're an astronomer and an audio-nut: http://planetologia.elte.hu/1cikkeke.phtml?cim=tunguska.html I left out the UFO pages, Mark. You want Tunguska solutions? Go crazy! Sterling K. Webb ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Ford" To: Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 2:22 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Tunguska.. Tunguska 100 years today - deserves a mention! And are we really anywhere further forward explaining it? I wonder. Best, Mark CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us. Email info at ssl.gb.com. You should not copy or use this email or attachment(s) for any purpose nor disclose their contents to any other person. GENERAL STATEMENT: Southern Scientific Ltd's computer systems may be monitored and communications carried on them recorded, to secure the effective operation of the system and for other lawful purposes. Registered address Rectory Farm Rd, Sompting, Lancing, W Sussex BN15 0DP. Company No 1800317 From mark.ford at ssl.gb.com Tue Jul 1 04:19:53 2008 From: mark.ford at ssl.gb.com (Mark Ford) Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 09:19:53 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Rob Matson finds his 76th comet - it's #1500for SOHO In-Reply-To: References: <391913.33472.qm@web51707.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <29A9DB45B84970458190D7D39BD42C4934F59C@gamma.ssl.atw> Yeah yeah yeah, I've discovered a comet too... http://www.flickr.com/photos/alexsegre/436562878/ ;) No seriously, Rob good work congrats! 76 comets is pat-on-the-back-worthy! Best Mark F. -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Notkin Sent: 01 July 2008 03:15 To: Meteorite List Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rob Matson finds his 76th comet - it's #1500for SOHO Not only is that Rob Matson a great meteorite hunter and comet discoverer, he is one cool dude! And brainy too. When is the biopic coming out? : ) Congrats to you Rob. Your pal in Tucson, Geoff N. www.aerolite.org ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us. Email info at ssl.gb.com. You should not copy or use this email or attachment(s) for any purpose nor disclose their contents to any other person. GENERAL STATEMENT: Southern Scientific Ltd's computer systems may be monitored and communications carried on them recorded, to secure the effective operation of the system and for other lawful purposes. Registered address Rectory Farm Rd, Sompting, Lancing, W Sussex BN15 0DP. Company No 1800317 From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Tue Jul 1 07:59:32 2008 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 07:59:32 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - July 1, 2008 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/July_1_2008.html **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Tue Jul 1 12:01:18 2008 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 09:01:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Tunguska Solved-And you think we just have meteorwrong issues Message-ID: <981010.35883.qm@web55202.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Light reading for those in need of humor. Recently posted elsewhere, name withheld to protect the magnificent mind that conceived this masterpiece of exotic explainatons. Elton Gist: Tunguska was a the mother of all lightening strikes During and just prior to the meteor entering the Earth's atmosphere, it was picking up a strong charge from a particularly strong CME (coronal mass ejection) reaching the Earth from the Sun. The meteor was highly charged as it entered the atmosphere and passed safely through the ionosphere. However, as the meteor began disintegrating it left behind a chain of positively charged dust particles as it approached the Earth. When it was just a few thousands feet above the Earth, the highly charged ionosphere found a conducting path to the Earth along this dust trail and sparked over to the Earth. The amount of power coming through this electrical discharge was enough to create the nuclear like effects and completely disintegrate the remainder of the meteor in midair. From mexicodoug at aim.com Tue Jul 1 12:56:13 2008 From: mexicodoug at aim.com (mexicodoug at aim.com) Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2008 12:56:13 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] "The Comet Hunter" Message-ID: <8CAA9B2813CE10C-1750-1AB4@MBLK-M15.sysops.aol.com> Dear List & Rob, I haven't had the pleasure to keep up with this latest of Rob's finds (falls?), but I consider myself very fortunate to be in this forum which great members like Rob make such an exciting place to be by their ocassionally chatting about what they do to unwind after a hard day's work. Congratulations to Rob Matson, yet again. Is it the number of finds? - its the chase?!! I'm sure the best is out there and still to come ... :) Best wishes, kilos of admiration and a healthy touch of envy ... Doug ... a bit coma-tose these days From pshugar at clearwire.net Tue Jul 1 13:13:02 2008 From: pshugar at clearwire.net (Pete Shugar) Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 12:13:02 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Vote Message-ID: <007001c8db9d$b9cedef0$0201a8c0@laptop> I vote Odessa. With 5 meteors hitting making 5 craters all within about an 800 foot circle, it would be a most spectacular sight to behold. All the bunny rabbits were merermized. It was the talk of every fox den for miles around. Pete From cojack at tiscali.it Tue Jul 1 14:30:48 2008 From: cojack at tiscali.it (Francesco Moser) Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 20:30:48 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Vincent Jacques - Belgium Message-ID: <003101c8dba8$963259d0$0200a8c0@FISSO> Hello! Could someone give me a working e-mail address of Vincent Jacques from Belgium?? Home address or telephone would also good! Thanks! <><><><> Francesco Moser http://web.tiscali.it/francesco.moser/ IMCA #1510 www.imca.cc From vs.petrovich at gmail.com Tue Jul 1 15:03:14 2008 From: vs.petrovich at gmail.com (Sergey Vasiliev) Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 21:03:14 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD. Tunguska Meteorite book on ebay Message-ID: Hello List! I just listed a Russian book "Tunguska Meteorite" on ebay. Link is here: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190233840212 To see all my current auctions check the link below: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZsvassiliev Thanks for your time! Sergey ----------------------------------------- Sergey Vasiliev U Dalnice 839, Prague 5, 15500 Czech Republic ------------------------------------------ http://www.sv-meteorites.com http://impactites.net http://systematic-mineralogy.com From almitt at kconline.com Tue Jul 1 18:23:15 2008 From: almitt at kconline.com (AL Mitterling) Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2008 18:23:15 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad: Lost City, Oklahoma In-Reply-To: <007001c8db9d$b9cedef0$0201a8c0@laptop> References: <007001c8db9d$b9cedef0$0201a8c0@laptop> Message-ID: <486AAE53.1010107@kconline.com> Hi All, I have some specimens of Lost City ending in about one day along with some other specimens ending in about five more days. Please check out my auctions at: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZalmittmet or type in my ebay user name almittmet to see my auctions. Best! --AL Mitterling From bolidechaser at yahoo.com Tue Jul 1 20:30:58 2008 From: bolidechaser at yahoo.com (Robert Verish) Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 17:30:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Fireball seen over San Bernardino County, CA Message-ID: <314630.71712.qm@web51703.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Fireball seen over San Bernardino County BEATRIZ E. VALENZUELA Staff Writer July 1, 2008 - 11:42AM Numerous calls from across the county about a fireball in the sky falling near the San Bernardino mountains came into San Bernardino County Fire Dispatch Tuesday morning, according to officials. Countless people, including fire personnel, from the Nevada stateline to Temecula reported seeing a brightly colored streak falling from the northwestern sky at about 10:40 a.m., said County Fire Dispatch Supervisor, Tom Barnes. Search crews from several agencies including Barstow, Arrowhead and Cal Fire have all attempted to track down a landing site, but have come up empty. All of the calls described a fast-moving object falling near the San Bernardino Mountains area. The original call came in from a Lake Arrowhead man who thought the object may have been an aircraft in trouble, Barnes said. After sending out fire crews and not finding any wreckage, investigators began to look into the possibility it may have been a meteor or some other space rock. ?When I saw it I thought, ?Oh my god!?? said Dan Bowman, 68, of Apple Valley. He said he was amazed at how visible the object was despite it being daylight and thought that it may have landed near the Bell Mountain area or maybe even the Stoddard Wells Recreation area. Fire crews from Clark County Nevada Fire near the stateline say they saw it as well, Barnes said. Bowman was on his way to pick up parts for his antique truck when he noticed a bright object speeding towards Earth. Officials for the Air Force Space Command are currently looking into whether the object is something that the office tracks on a regular basis, but had no explanation on what it may be. ?I saw it for three of four seconds,? Bowman said. ?The front of it looked like a glacier blue and then it got orangey. The tail-end of it was white like big shattered mirrors.? Barstow Fire Protection District personnel was dispatched to the Calico area and found no evidence of a meteorite hitting the ground. Some Barstow fire officials also saw the object and reported that it may have burned up in the atmosphere before it made impact, Barnes reported. Investigators are still looking into the incident. Beatriz E. Valenzuela can be reached at 951-6276 or at BValenzuela at vvdailypress.com. From meteoritefinder at gmail.com Tue Jul 1 22:14:42 2008 From: meteoritefinder at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 19:14:42 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Large Canyon Diablo meteorite for sale/ad Message-ID: <468bf6050807011914q66bdb707jb8b64f9c8876e1e2@mail.gmail.com> Hello everyone I am offering a large Canyon Diablo individual here for sale. It is a 76 pound individual the price is $10,000 I will ship it in the US for the same price and I will clean it for the same price if you prefer. The first $10 K takes it. Here is a link http://www.meteoritefinder.com/catalog/canyon-76.htm -- Mike Miller 230 Greenway Dr. Kingman Az 86401 www.meteoritefinder.com 928-753-6825 From pierremariepele at yahoo.fr Wed Jul 2 01:38:24 2008 From: pierremariepele at yahoo.fr (=?iso-8859-1?q?Pel=E9=20Pierre-Marie?=) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 07:38:24 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Problems with encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com Message-ID: <486823.74317.qm@web23007.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hello, Since a few days, you probably have some difficulties connecting to the encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com website. We have some problems with the new server ; that's why the website is slow and that you can't look at the pictures. I'm sorry for the inconvenience and hope everything goes better in the next days. Pierre-Marie PELE _____________________________________________________________________________ Envoyez avec Yahoo! Mail. Une boite mail plus intelligente http://mail.yahoo.fr From MeteorHntr at aol.com Wed Jul 2 12:41:42 2008 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 12:41:42 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] 'Field Guide to Meteors and Meteorites' The Bible Message-ID: Tim, What I love about the picture with you in it, is that so many pictures show people apprehending meteorites, but your photo shows that YOU are the one captured by the meteorite. And what a great picture it is. No doubt you, like many in the field, are the ones being captured by meteorites, not the other way around. Again, great photo, and thanks for sharing it with Richard and with us. Steve #1 In a message dated 7/2/2008 10:50:37 A.M. Central Daylight Time, midwest at meteorman.org writes: Steve, I like 187 even more:) This book will be called the BIBLE OF METEORITES it has it all, they did a wonderful job. Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: MeteorHntr at aol.com To: midwest at meteorman.org Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 9:50 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] 'Field Guide to Meteors and Meteorites' nowAvailable Tim, I kind of liked that photo on page 67... Steve #1 **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) From lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu Wed Jul 2 12:57:02 2008 From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu (lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 09:57:02 -0700 (MST) Subject: [meteorite-list] 'Field Guide to Meteors and Meteorites' The Bible In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <51548.71.226.60.25.1215017822.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> Hi All: With so many of you in the process of getting and reading Field Guide, I would appreciate 1-paragraph comments that we might use in the November issue of Meteorite. I am hoping for a review or two of the Book, but it would be great to have a few other comments from others to go along with the review(s). Thanks in advance. LArry Co-editor, Meteorite magazine On Wed, July 2, 2008 9:41 am, MeteorHntr at aol.com wrote: > Tim, > > > What I love about the picture with you in it, is that so many pictures > show people apprehending meteorites, but your photo shows that YOU are > the one captured by the meteorite. > > And what a great picture it is. > > > No doubt you, like many in the field, are the ones being captured by > meteorites, not the other way around. > > Again, great photo, and thanks for sharing it with Richard and with us. > > > Steve #1 > > > > In a message dated 7/2/2008 10:50:37 A.M. Central Daylight Time, > midwest at meteorman.org writes: Steve, > > > I like 187 even more:) > > > This book will be called the BIBLE OF METEORITES > > > it has it all, they did a wonderful job. > > Tim > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: MeteorHntr at aol.com > To: midwest at meteorman.org > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 9:50 AM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] 'Field Guide to Meteors and Meteorites' > nowAvailable > > > Tim, > > > I kind of liked that photo on page 67... > > > Steve #1 > > > > > > **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for > fuel-efficient used cars. > (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From MeteorHntr at aol.com Wed Jul 2 13:12:20 2008 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 13:12:20 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] 'Field Guide to Meteors and Meteorites' The Bible Message-ID: Larry, I would offer a review, but it will take me a month just to look at all the pictures and read all the captions...then I will get around to reading it. Maybe someone should make a Meteorite Comic Book for kids like me? Steve #1 In a message dated 7/2/2008 11:57:16 A.M. Central Daylight Time, lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu writes: Hi All: With so many of you in the process of getting and reading Field Guide, I would appreciate 1-paragraph comments that we might use in the November issue of Meteorite. I am hoping for a review or two of the Book, but it would be great to have a few other comments from others to go along with the review(s). Thanks in advance. LArry Co-editor, Meteorite magazine **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) From mlblood at cox.net Wed Jul 2 13:30:37 2008 From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael L Blood) Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2008 10:30:37 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] 'Field Guide to Meteors and Meteorites' The Bible In-Reply-To: Message-ID: So, Where do I see this photo??? on 7/2/08 9:41 AM, MeteorHntr at aol.com at MeteorHntr at aol.com wrote: > Tim, > > What I love about the picture with you in it, is that so many pictures show > people apprehending meteorites, but your photo shows that YOU are the one > captured by the meteorite. > > And what a great picture it is. > > No doubt you, like many in the field, are the ones being captured by > meteorites, not the other way around. > > Again, great photo, and thanks for sharing it with Richard and with us. > > Steve #1 > > > In a message dated 7/2/2008 10:50:37 A.M. Central Daylight Time, > midwest at meteorman.org writes: > Steve, > > I like 187 even more:) > > This book will be called the BIBLE OF METEORITES > > it has it all, they did a wonderful job. > > Tim > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: MeteorHntr at aol.com > To: midwest at meteorman.org > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 9:50 AM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] 'Field Guide to Meteors and Meteorites' > nowAvailable > > > Tim, > > I kind of liked that photo on page 67... > > Steve #1 > > > > > **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for > fuel-efficient used cars. > (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a car. From mikewren at gilanet.com Wed Jul 2 13:58:54 2008 From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 11:58:54 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Holiday Meteorite Sale In My Ebay Store... Message-ID: <200807021201977.SM01628@yourfsyly0jtwn> Hello, There is a Holiday Sale going on in my ebay store for the next few days. Go to: http://stores.ebay.com/VOYAGE-BOTANICA-NATURAL-HISTORY Thanks and Best Wishes Michael Cottingham From jan at meteorieten.com Wed Jul 2 15:21:06 2008 From: jan at meteorieten.com (Jan Bartels) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 21:21:06 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [meteorite-list] [IMCA] Vote for a Fall - Fund Rasier Message-ID: <61747.85.145.6.103.1215026466.squirrel@webmail.uniserver.nl> Now please give me a break here huh !!! Now that these Germans lost the European soccer championship why on earth should they win this "art competion" Just imagine....Holland is so small....only 4 meteorites!! Could we at least get a painting from one of these ?? The Glanerbrug meteorite it should be.... And yes Germany...the flightpath of this one started in Germany so no comments pls !! Greets from Holland. Jan & Yvonne Bartels www.heavenlybodies.nl Hello Voters and Non Voters, We are approaching a landslide victory for Neuschwanstein! Here's how it stands right now: Neuschwanstein - 23 Peekskill - 10 Park Forest - 6 Murchison - 5 Carancas - 3 These falls have one vote each: Canyon Diablo Danebury Henbury Holbrook Jilin Odessa Pultusk Tagish Lake Weston If Neuschwanstein is not your favorite fall and you have not voted, please do so. Best Regards, Maria Haas Treasurer I.M.C.A., Inc. www.IMCA.cc Member #5520 From michael at spacerocksinc.com Wed Jul 2 15:45:14 2008 From: michael at spacerocksinc.com (Michael Johnson) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 12:45:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - July 2, 2008 Message-ID: <8309532.75331215027914776.JavaMail.root@mbs6.homesteadmail.com> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/July_2_2008.html From cynapse at charter.net Wed Jul 2 16:47:01 2008 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2008 16:47:01 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Exploding asteroid theory strengthened by new evidence located in Ohio, Indiana In-Reply-To: <007001c8db9d$b9cedef0$0201a8c0@laptop> References: <007001c8db9d$b9cedef0$0201a8c0@laptop> Message-ID: <91qn64l2u9lh7n8p44roe82g9h5tkpb5ed@4ax.com> Okay, I'm not entirely clear just what this story is trying to say. But it seems to be claiming that gold silver, and diamonds are found in Ohio and Indiana that are debris blasted there by a late-ice age meteorite strike in Canada. Which makes no sense whatsoever, given that there is no recent massive-freaking crater in Canada that could account for the vast amounts of impactites this would imply. http://www.physorg.com/news134233301.html Geological evidence found in Ohio and Indiana in recent weeks is strengthening the case to attribute what happened 12,900 years ago in North America -- when the end of the last Ice Age unexpectedly turned into a phase of extinction for animals and humans -- to a cataclysmic comet or asteroid explosion over top of Canada. A comet/asteroid theory advanced by Arizona-based geophysicist Allen West in the past two years says that an object from space exploded just above the earth's surface at that time over modern-day Canada, sparking a massive shock wave and heat-generating event that set large parts of the northern hemisphere ablaze, setting the stage for the extinctions. Now University of Cincinnati Assistant Professor of Anthropology Ken Tankersley, working in conjunction with West and Indiana Geological Society Research Scientist Nelson R. Schaffer, has verified evidence from sites in Ohio and Indiana -- including, locally, Hamilton and Clermont counties in Ohio and Brown County in Indiana -- that offers the strongest support yet for the exploding comet/asteroid theory. Samples of diamonds, gold and silver that have been found in the region have been conclusively sourced through X-ray diffractometry in the lab of UC Professor of Geology Warren Huff back to the diamond fields region of Canada. The only plausible scenario available now for explaining their presence this far south is the kind of cataclysmic explosive event described by West's theory. "We believe this is the strongest evidence yet indicating a comet impact in that time period," says Tankersley. Ironically, Tankersley had gone into the field with West believing he might be able to disprove West's theory. Tankersley was familiar through years of work in this area with the diamonds, gold and silver deposits, which at one point could be found in such abundance in this region that the Hopewell Indians who lived here about 2,000 years ago engaged in trade in these items. Prevailing thought said that these deposits, which are found at a soil depth consistent with the time frame of the comet/asteroid event, had been brought south from the Great Lakes region by glaciers. "My smoking gun to disprove (West) was going to be the gold, silver and diamonds," Tankersley says. "But what I didn't know at that point was a conclusion he had reached that he had not yet made public -- that the likely point of impact for the comet wasn't just anywhere over Canada, but located over Canada's diamond-bearing fields. Instead of becoming the basis for rejecting his hypothesis, these items became the very best evidence to support it." Additional sourcing work is being done at the sites looking for iridium, micro-meteorites and nano-diamonds that bear the markers of the diamond-field region, which also should have been blasted by the impact into this region. Much of the work is being done in Sheriden Cave in north-central Ohio's Wyandot County, a rich repository of material dating back to the Ice Age. Tankersley first came into contact with West and Schaffer when they were invited guests for interdisciplinary colloquia presented by UC's Department of Geology this spring. West presented on his theory that a large comet or asteroid, believed to be more than a mile in diameter, exploded just above the earth at a time when the last Ice Age appeared to be drawing to a close. The timing attached to this theory of about 12,900 years ago is consistent with the known disappearances in North America of the wooly mammoth population and the first distinct human society to inhabit the continent, known as the Clovis civilization. At that time, climatic history suggests the Ice Age should have been drawing to a close, but a rapid change known as the Younger Dryas event, instead ushered in another 1,300 years of glacial conditions. A cataclysmic explosion consistent with West's theory would have the potential to create the kind of atmospheric turmoil necessary to produce such conditions. "The kind of evidence we are finding does suggest that climate change at the end of the last Ice Age was the result of a catastrophic event," Tankersley says. Currently, Tankersley can be seen in a new documentary airing on the National Geographic channel. The film "Ancient Asteroids" is part of that network's "Naked Science" series. The new discoveries made working with West and Schaffer will be incorporated into two more specials that Tankersley is currently involved with -- one for the PBS series "Nova" and a second for the History Channel that will be filming Tankersley and his UC students in the field this summer. Another documentary, this one being produced by the Discovery Channel and the British public television network Channel 4, will also be following Tankersley and his students later this summer. As more data continues to be compiled, Tankersley, West and Schaffer will be publishing about this newest twist in the search to explain the history of our planet and its climate. Climate change is a favorite topic for Tankersley. "The ultimate importance of this kind of work is showing that we can't control everything," he says. "Our planet has been hit by asteroids many times throughout its history, and when that happens, it does produce climate change." Source: University of Cincinnati From mmorgan at mhmeteorites.com Wed Jul 2 16:59:37 2008 From: mmorgan at mhmeteorites.com (mmorgan at mhmeteorites.com) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 20:59:37 +0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] Exploding asteroid theory strengthened by newevidence located in Ohio, Indiana In-Reply-To: <91qn64l2u9lh7n8p44roe82g9h5tkpb5ed@4ax.com> References: <007001c8db9d$b9cedef0$0201a8c0@laptop><91qn64l2u9lh7n8p44roe82g9h5tkpb5ed@4ax.com> Message-ID: <1993514409-1215032532-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1163539329-@bxe173.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> And still it does not say why glacial transport was ruled out. This seems like a very plausible explanation. But it doesn't get one on TV now does it? Matt Morgan ---------------------- Matt Morgan Mile High Meteorites http://www.mhmeteorites.com P.O. Box 151293 Lakewood, CO 80215 USA -----Original Message----- From: Darren Garrison Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2008 16:47:01 To: Subject: [meteorite-list] Exploding asteroid theory strengthened by new evidence located in Ohio, Indiana Okay, I'm not entirely clear just what this story is trying to say. But it seems to be claiming that gold silver, and diamonds are found in Ohio and Indiana that are debris blasted there by a late-ice age meteorite strike in Canada. Which makes no sense whatsoever, given that there is no recent massive-freaking crater in Canada that could account for the vast amounts of impactites this would imply. http://www.physorg.com/news134233301.html Geological evidence found in Ohio and Indiana in recent weeks is strengthening the case to attribute what happened 12,900 years ago in North America -- when the end of the last Ice Age unexpectedly turned into a phase of extinction for animals and humans -- to a cataclysmic comet or asteroid explosion over top of Canada. A comet/asteroid theory advanced by Arizona-based geophysicist Allen West in the past two years says that an object from space exploded just above the earth's surface at that time over modern-day Canada, sparking a massive shock wave and heat-generating event that set large parts of the northern hemisphere ablaze, setting the stage for the extinctions. Now University of Cincinnati Assistant Professor of Anthropology Ken Tankersley, working in conjunction with West and Indiana Geological Society Research Scientist Nelson R. Schaffer, has verified evidence from sites in Ohio and Indiana -- including, locally, Hamilton and Clermont counties in Ohio and Brown County in Indiana -- that offers the strongest support yet for the exploding comet/asteroid theory. Samples of diamonds, gold and silver that have been found in the region have been conclusively sourced through X-ray diffractometry in the lab of UC Professor of Geology Warren Huff back to the diamond fields region of Canada. The only plausible scenario available now for explaining their presence this far south is the kind of cataclysmic explosive event described by West's theory. "We believe this is the strongest evidence yet indicating a comet impact in that time period," says Tankersley. Ironically, Tankersley had gone into the field with West believing he might be able to disprove West's theory. Tankersley was familiar through years of work in this area with the diamonds, gold and silver deposits, which at one point could be found in such abundance in this region that the Hopewell Indians who lived here about 2,000 years ago engaged in trade in these items. Prevailing thought said that these deposits, which are found at a soil depth consistent with the time frame of the comet/asteroid event, had been brought south from the Great Lakes region by glaciers. "My smoking gun to disprove (West) was going to be the gold, silver and diamonds," Tankersley says. "But what I didn't know at that point was a conclusion he had reached that he had not yet made public -- that the likely point of impact for the comet wasn't just anywhere over Canada, but located over Canada's diamond-bearing fields. Instead of becoming the basis for rejecting his hypothesis, these items became the very best evidence to support it." Additional sourcing work is being done at the sites looking for iridium, micro-meteorites and nano-diamonds that bear the markers of the diamond-field region, which also should have been blasted by the impact into this region. Much of the work is being done in Sheriden Cave in north-central Ohio's Wyandot County, a rich repository of material dating back to the Ice Age. Tankersley first came into contact with West and Schaffer when they were invited guests for interdisciplinary colloquia presented by UC's Department of Geology this spring. West presented on his theory that a large comet or asteroid, believed to be more than a mile in diameter, exploded just above the earth at a time when the last Ice Age appeared to be drawing to a close. The timing attached to this theory of about 12,900 years ago is consistent with the known disappearances in North America of the wooly mammoth population and the first distinct human society to inhabit the continent, known as the Clovis civilization. At that time, climatic history suggests the Ice Age should have been drawing to a close, but a rapid change known as the Younger Dryas event, instead ushered in another 1,300 years of glacial conditions. A cataclysmic explosion consistent with West's theory would have the potential to create the kind of atmospheric turmoil necessary to produce such conditions. "The kind of evidence we are finding does suggest that climate change at the end of the last Ice Age was the result of a catastrophic event," Tankersley says. Currently, Tankersley can be seen in a new documentary airing on the National Geographic channel. The film "Ancient Asteroids" is part of that network's "Naked Science" series. The new discoveries made working with West and Schaffer will be incorporated into two more specials that Tankersley is currently involved with -- one for the PBS series "Nova" and a second for the History Channel that will be filming Tankersley and his UC students in the field this summer. Another documentary, this one being produced by the Discovery Channel and the British public television network Channel 4, will also be following Tankersley and his students later this summer. As more data continues to be compiled, Tankersley, West and Schaffer will be publishing about this newest twist in the search to explain the history of our planet and its climate. Climate change is a favorite topic for Tankersley. "The ultimate importance of this kind of work is showing that we can't control everything," he says. "Our planet has been hit by asteroids many times throughout its history, and when that happens, it does produce climate change." Source: University of Cincinnati ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From grf2 at verizon.net Wed Jul 2 17:26:36 2008 From: grf2 at verizon.net (Jerry) Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2008 17:26:36 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Exploding asteroid theory strengthened by newevidence located in Ohio, Indiana In-Reply-To: <91qn64l2u9lh7n8p44roe82g9h5tkpb5ed@4ax.com> References: <007001c8db9d$b9cedef0$0201a8c0@laptop> <91qn64l2u9lh7n8p44roe82g9h5tkpb5ed@4ax.com> Message-ID: <87F7D7F144B84A96B49A4B9A702FE89A@Notebook> Darren, suspend judgement and keep an open mind. Wait for the whole story. It may take a whole lifetime. Jerry Flaherty ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darren Garrison" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 4:47 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Exploding asteroid theory strengthened by newevidence located in Ohio, Indiana > Okay, I'm not entirely clear just what this story is trying to say. But > it > seems to be claiming that gold silver, and diamonds are found in Ohio and > Indiana that are debris blasted there by a late-ice age meteorite strike > in > Canada. Which makes no sense whatsoever, given that there is no recent > massive-freaking crater in Canada that could account for the vast amounts > of > impactites this would imply. > > > http://www.physorg.com/news134233301.html > > Geological evidence found in Ohio and Indiana in recent weeks is > strengthening > the case to attribute what happened 12,900 years ago in North America -- > when > the end of the last Ice Age unexpectedly turned into a phase of extinction > for > animals and humans -- to a cataclysmic comet or asteroid explosion over > top of > Canada. > > A comet/asteroid theory advanced by Arizona-based geophysicist Allen West > in the > past two years says that an object from space exploded just above the > earth's > surface at that time over modern-day Canada, sparking a massive shock wave > and > heat-generating event that set large parts of the northern hemisphere > ablaze, > setting the stage for the extinctions. > > Now University of Cincinnati Assistant Professor of Anthropology Ken > Tankersley, > working in conjunction with West and Indiana Geological Society Research > Scientist Nelson R. Schaffer, has verified evidence from sites in Ohio and > Indiana -- including, locally, Hamilton and Clermont counties in Ohio and > Brown > County in Indiana -- that offers the strongest support yet for the > exploding > comet/asteroid theory. > > Samples of diamonds, gold and silver that have been found in the region > have > been conclusively sourced through X-ray diffractometry in the lab of UC > Professor of Geology Warren Huff back to the diamond fields region of > Canada. > > The only plausible scenario available now for explaining their presence > this far > south is the kind of cataclysmic explosive event described by West's > theory. "We > believe this is the strongest evidence yet indicating a comet impact in > that > time period," says Tankersley. > > Ironically, Tankersley had gone into the field with West believing he > might be > able to disprove West's theory. > > Tankersley was familiar through years of work in this area with the > diamonds, > gold and silver deposits, which at one point could be found in such > abundance in > this region that the Hopewell Indians who lived here about 2,000 years ago > engaged in trade in these items. > > Prevailing thought said that these deposits, which are found at a soil > depth > consistent with the time frame of the comet/asteroid event, had been > brought > south from the Great Lakes region by glaciers. > > "My smoking gun to disprove (West) was going to be the gold, silver and > diamonds," Tankersley says. "But what I didn't know at that point was a > conclusion he had reached that he had not yet made public -- that the > likely > point of impact for the comet wasn't just anywhere over Canada, but > located over > Canada's diamond-bearing fields. Instead of becoming the basis for > rejecting his > hypothesis, these items became the very best evidence to support it." > > Additional sourcing work is being done at the sites looking for iridium, > micro-meteorites and nano-diamonds that bear the markers of the > diamond-field > region, which also should have been blasted by the impact into this > region. > > Much of the work is being done in Sheriden Cave in north-central Ohio's > Wyandot > County, a rich repository of material dating back to the Ice Age. > > Tankersley first came into contact with West and Schaffer when they were > invited > guests for interdisciplinary colloquia presented by UC's Department of > Geology > this spring. > > West presented on his theory that a large comet or asteroid, believed to > be more > than a mile in diameter, exploded just above the earth at a time when the > last > Ice Age appeared to be drawing to a close. > > The timing attached to this theory of about 12,900 years ago is consistent > with > the known disappearances in North America of the wooly mammoth population > and > the first distinct human society to inhabit the continent, known as the > Clovis > civilization. At that time, climatic history suggests the Ice Age should > have > been drawing to a close, but a rapid change known as the Younger Dryas > event, > instead ushered in another 1,300 years of glacial conditions. A > cataclysmic > explosion consistent with West's theory would have the potential to create > the > kind of atmospheric turmoil necessary to produce such conditions. > > "The kind of evidence we are finding does suggest that climate change at > the end > of the last Ice Age was the result of a catastrophic event," Tankersley > says. > > Currently, Tankersley can be seen in a new documentary airing on the > National > Geographic channel. The film "Ancient Asteroids" is part of that network's > "Naked Science" series. > > The new discoveries made working with West and Schaffer will be > incorporated > into two more specials that Tankersley is currently involved with -- one > for the > PBS series "Nova" and a second for the History Channel that will be > filming > Tankersley and his UC students in the field this summer. Another > documentary, > this one being produced by the Discovery Channel and the British public > television network Channel 4, will also be following Tankersley and his > students > later this summer. > > As more data continues to be compiled, Tankersley, West and Schaffer will > be > publishing about this newest twist in the search to explain the history of > our > planet and its climate. > > Climate change is a favorite topic for Tankersley. "The ultimate > importance of > this kind of work is showing that we can't control everything," he says. > "Our > planet has been hit by asteroids many times throughout its history, and > when > that happens, it does produce climate change." > > Source: University of Cincinnati > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From daistiho at hotmail.com Wed Jul 2 19:39:09 2008 From: daistiho at hotmail.com (tracy latimer) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 23:39:09 +0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] Exploding asteroid theory strengthened by new evidence located in Ohio, Indiana In-Reply-To: <91qn64l2u9lh7n8p44roe82g9h5tkpb5ed@4ax.com> References: <007001c8db9d$b9cedef0$0201a8c0@laptop> <91qn64l2u9lh7n8p44roe82g9h5tkpb5ed@4ax.com> Message-ID: I wish that when scientists make pronouncements like this, they would not play coy but give a thumbnail explanation why they are contradicting current thought, what evidence they have found to the contrary. Instead, the stories seem more slanted to grabbing headlines and playing to the "extraterrestrials from Procyon did it!" crowd, which may be more the news hounds than the researchers. Tracy Latimer > From: cynapse at charter.net > To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 16:47:01 -0400 > Subject: [meteorite-list] Exploding asteroid theory strengthened by new evidence located in Ohio, Indiana > _________________________________________________________________ Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play chicktionary! http://club.live.com/chicktionary.aspx?icid=chick_wlhmtextlink1_feb From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Wed Jul 2 20:42:44 2008 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 17:42:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Exploding asteroid theory strengthened by new evidence located in Ohio, Indiana In-Reply-To: <91qn64l2u9lh7n8p44roe82g9h5tkpb5ed@4ax.com> Message-ID: <803391.35829.qm@web55205.mail.re4.yahoo.com> --- On Wed, 7/2/08, Darren Garrison wrote: > From: Darren Garrison > Subject: [meteorite-list] Exploding asteroid theory strengthened by new evidence located in Ohio, Indiana > To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Wednesday, July 2, 2008, 4:47 PM > Okay, I'm not entirely clear just what this story is > trying to say. But it > seems to be claiming that gold silver, and diamonds are > found in Ohio and > Indiana that are debris blasted there by a late-ice age > meteorite strike in > Canada. Which makes no sense whatsoever, given that there > is no recent > massive-freaking crater in Canada that could account for > the vast amounts of > impactites this would imply. > > > http://www.physorg.com/news134233301.html > > Geological evidence found in Ohio and Indiana in recent > weeks is strengthening > the case to attribute what happened 12,900 years ago in > North America -- when > the end of the last Ice Age unexpectedly turned into a > phase of extinction for > animals and humans -- to a cataclysmic comet or asteroid > explosion over top of > Canada. > > A comet/asteroid theory advanced by Arizona-based > geophysicist Allen West in the > past two years says that an object from space exploded just > above the earth's > surface at that time over modern-day Canada, sparking a > massive shock wave and > heat-generating event that set large parts of the northern > hemisphere ablaze, > setting the stage for the extinctions. > > Now University of Cincinnati Assistant Professor of > Anthropology Ken Tankersley, > working in conjunction with West and Indiana Geological > Society Research > Scientist Nelson R. Schaffer, has verified evidence from > sites in Ohio and > Indiana -- including, locally, Hamilton and Clermont > counties in Ohio and Brown > County in Indiana -- that offers the strongest support yet > for the exploding > comet/asteroid theory. > > Samples of diamonds, gold and silver that have been found > in the region have > been conclusively sourced through X-ray diffractometry in > the lab of UC > Professor of Geology Warren Huff back to the diamond fields > region of Canada. > > The only plausible scenario available now for explaining > their presence this far > south is the kind of cataclysmic explosive event described > by West's theory. "We > believe this is the strongest evidence yet indicating a > comet impact in that > time period," says Tankersley. > > Ironically, Tankersley had gone into the field with West > believing he might be > able to disprove West's theory. > > Tankersley was familiar through years of work in this area > with the diamonds, > gold and silver deposits, which at one point could be found > in such abundance in > this region that the Hopewell Indians who lived here about > 2,000 years ago > engaged in trade in these items. > > Prevailing thought said that these deposits, which are > found at a soil depth > consistent with the time frame of the comet/asteroid event, > had been brought > south from the Great Lakes region by glaciers. > > "My smoking gun to disprove (West) was going to be the > gold, silver and > diamonds," Tankersley says. "But what I > didn't know at that point was a > conclusion he had reached that he had not yet made public > -- that the likely > point of impact for the comet wasn't just anywhere over > Canada, but located over > Canada's diamond-bearing fields. Instead of becoming > the basis for rejecting his > hypothesis, these items became the very best evidence to > support it." > > Additional sourcing work is being done at the sites looking > for iridium, > micro-meteorites and nano-diamonds that bear the markers of > the diamond-field > region, which also should have been blasted by the impact > into this region. > > Much of the work is being done in Sheriden Cave in > north-central Ohio's Wyandot > County, a rich repository of material dating back to the > Ice Age. > > Tankersley first came into contact with West and Schaffer > when they were invited > guests for interdisciplinary colloquia presented by > UC's Department of Geology > this spring. > > West presented on his theory that a large comet or > asteroid, believed to be more > than a mile in diameter, exploded just above the earth at a > time when the last > Ice Age appeared to be drawing to a close. > > The timing attached to this theory of about 12,900 years > ago is consistent with > the known disappearances in North America of the wooly > mammoth population and > the first distinct human society to inhabit the continent, > known as the Clovis > civilization. At that time, climatic history suggests the > Ice Age should have > been drawing to a close, but a rapid change known as the > Younger Dryas event, > instead ushered in another 1,300 years of glacial > conditions. A cataclysmic > explosion consistent with West's theory would have the > potential to create the > kind of atmospheric turmoil necessary to produce such > conditions. > > "The kind of evidence we are finding does suggest that > climate change at the end > of the last Ice Age was the result of a catastrophic > event," Tankersley says. > > Currently, Tankersley can be seen in a new documentary > airing on the National > Geographic channel. The film "Ancient Asteroids" > is part of that network's > "Naked Science" series. > > The new discoveries made working with West and Schaffer > will be incorporated > into two more specials that Tankersley is currently > involved with -- one for the > PBS series "Nova" and a second for the History > Channel that will be filming > Tankersley and his UC students in the field this summer. > Another documentary, > this one being produced by the Discovery Channel and the > British public > television network Channel 4, will also be following > Tankersley and his students > later this summer. > > As more data continues to be compiled, Tankersley, West and > Schaffer will be > publishing about this newest twist in the search to explain > the history of our > planet and its climate. > > Climate change is a favorite topic for Tankersley. > "The ultimate importance of > this kind of work is showing that we can't control > everything," he says. "Our > planet has been hit by asteroids many times throughout its > history, and when > that happens, it does produce climate change." > > Source: University of Cincinnati > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Wed Jul 2 23:28:13 2008 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 20:28:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Exploding asteroid theory strengthened by new evidence located in Ohio, Indiana Message-ID: <527586.58704.qm@web55205.mail.re4.yahoo.com> > (wondering myself where the last two replies went.) > Darren said that a lack of crater made this news item > suspect. > > What I said was: > The researcher did say this was an aerial burst and be it > remembered that Tunguska didn?t leave a crater (else > minor one) and it wasn?t exploding over what at the time > was around 2miles/ 3kms of ice sheet. > > I suspect the reporter is amiss for not providing > specifics. Perhaps they were too hyper or too stupored and > in trying to soundbite a subject they probably knew little > about co-mingled a lot terms. > > The researcher was discussing dust of micro-nano size > collected in glacial sediments/out flow channels vic the > terminal moraine(my words). I don?t believe the > researcher was implying that the kimberlite-derived > diamonds , nor the gold and silver ores mined in Canada > are related to the dust.--only that the epicenter could > have been over some mining districts. > > This ties well into the material that E.P. Grondine > already posted about the decimation of mammoth and human > populations at the 12000? year mark in northern North > America. I am a wee surprised that there was no mention of > the spheroid containing black mats found in similar > deposits. This is building evidence that the Younger Dryas > interval was triggered by a cometary encounter which caused > a global cooling event lasting 1200 ? years. > > Elton From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Thu Jul 3 03:23:16 2008 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 02:23:16 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Exploding asteroid theory strengthened bynew evidence located in Ohio, Indiana References: <007001c8db9d$b9cedef0$0201a8c0@laptop><91qn64l2u9lh7n8p44roe82g9h5tkpb5ed@4ax.com> Message-ID: <069401c8dcdd$a9e17f70$2346e146@ATARIENGINE> Hi, Darren, Tracy, Elton, List, This is not a "scientific" pronouncement; it is a press release written by a press agent and as such, it is worthless. Press release science is generally worthless. It is a chaotic garble from an enthusiastic idiot, the press agent. For example (just one, though there are so many), it says the "diamonds, gold, and silver" found in deposits in Ohio and Indiana were not "pushed" there by glaciers but emplaced there by a cosmic explosive impact, an impossible notion. Since gold and silver have low melting points, a massive impact would vaporize them and there would be gold and silver microspherules deposited over half the continent. Indeed, these same people hypothesize just such microspherules for other, more refractory stuff, so this is a complete screw-up. The most famous diamond ever found in the US was drilled out of a GLACIAL till in Eagle, Waukesha Co., Wisconsin. This 15.37-carat light-yellow diamond, a rounded dodecahedral crystal, was found in 1867. Bought by a local jeweler for $1.00, he re-sold it to Tiffany's for $850. In 1889, it went to the Paris International Exhibition and it eventually became the property of a certain Mr. J. P. Morgan, who donated it to the American Museum of Natural History down the street from his house, where it was exhibited until, in 1964, it was stolen by the famous "Murph The Surf" celebrity bandit. It has never been recovered. And so it goes. In 1853, diamonds were discovered in the California gold fields in GLACIAL alluvial deposits. In 1869, in Idaho, in the same conditions. In 1883, in Montana, in a GLACIAL lake bed. In 1888, in Kentucky, in GLACIAL gravels. In Maine. In Michigan. There are natural diamonds in Arkansas and Colorado, the only diamonds NOT found in a glacial context. Kimberlite pipes have been discovered elsewhere but not explored. Any material distributed by an impact would be widely scattered, NOT concentrated in deposits. Identifying the Ohio and Indiana diamonds as originating in Canada is nothing new. We've known that for 60-70 years now. The newly productive Canadian diamond mines were found by tracing the locations of garnet finds from the US into Canada, a favorite summer project of geology grad students for fifty years (garnets are produced in the same kimberlite pipes as diamonds). On the face of it, the announcement sounds like idiocy. They say, "The only plausible scenario available now for explaining their presence this far south is the kind of cataclysmic explosive event described by West's theory." If they mean that glacial deposits can only be found as far south as the glaciers themselves, they are dead wrong. Melt floods carry materials, even big boulders, great distances. Normal stream activity carries the lighter stuff further (many isolated diamond finds are in stream placer deposits). The drainage basin of the Ohio river shows plentiful evidence of this. There are glacial deposits in Kentucky, which is further south than Ohio (in case they haven't looked south across the river from Cincinnati lately). http://books.google.com/books?id=8eFSK4o--M0C&pg=PA376&lpg=PA376&dq=southernmost+glacial+erratic+US&source=web&ots=2NcIEXv_S_&sig=IGLmBdjw-oyZJUteovXiSv-FagA&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=4&ct=result This whole thing just gets sillier and sillier. These people seem to be at a loss for logic. If there was an impact in Canada that scattered gold and diamonds south, it would have to excavate that ground where the gold and diamonds are, so it couldn't have been when Canada was covered by half-a-mile of ice, but, of course, that is exactly when they say it did happen. Impossible. Flat impossible. Firestone found some very strange isotopic anomalies 20 years ago. Since then he has thrashed about for an explanation: supernovae, comets that travel at 3% of the speed of light and impact the Earth; mammoths that are killed by microscopic iron particles shot through the Earth's atmosphere at 10,000 km/sec, black mats, bucky balls, nanodiamonds, the Carolina Bays, and now, big diamonds and gold. It's pitiful. There may or may not have been an "impact" or airburst event in this general time frame. Some of these indicators may or may not be markers of it. Certainly, many species of mammals declined and died in a short time frame and an impact may or may not have helped. But the case is weak and diffuse, the evidence vague and disputacious. We were just discussing Tunguska, which demonstrates how little evidence can be left behind after a substantial impact event. The last time this supposed impact was a topic here, I did some calculation of the effect of a massive airburst over the Laurentide Ice Sheet and gained a real appreciation of how large an energetic event could be absorbed by a half-a-mile-thick slab of ice, with hardly a trace -- even a one-kilometer object airbursting would only make a temporary glacial lake on the upper surface of the ice cap. It's questionable whether an ice-cap impact would have anything more than transient effects. The discovery that started this silliness remains -- the strange isotopic anomalies; that data continues to hold up. I call this sort of situation -- data in search of an explanation -- Orphan Facts. I don't smell parenthood in this story. "Mammoths" were a genus with eleven species, and the woolly mammoth was the last one. Most populations in North America and Eurasia died out about 12,000 years ago. Until recently, it was thought they vanished from Europe and Southern Siberia at the same time, but new findings show that some were still there about 10,000 years ago. A little later, they disappeared from continental Northern Siberia. A small population survived on St. Paul Island, Alaska, up until 8000 years ago, and some small mammoths on Wrangel Island became extinct only around 4000 years ago. Doesn't sound much like instant Death From The Sky to me. Mastodons are NOT the same as Mammoths, a different genus and not even the same family; there were two species of mastodons. But you couldn't have told the difference; I'd have run screaming from either one: same size, both furry, both with those big tusks. Mastodons were most numerous in Eastern North America -- their Heartland was our Heartland, although they were everywhere in the New World (not the Old). Their remains have been found 300 miles out in the Atlantic (it was dry land then, remember), in Nova Scotia, Kentucky, Missouri, Louisiana, Washington State, Wisconsin, Texas, Indiana, and oh, yes! -- South America! They died out about 10,000 years ago (after four million years of Ice Age happiness). One Mastodon was found in the middle of the Mississppi River! Remind me again: how does a Comet in Canada kill a furry mastodon in South America? Both Mammoths and Mastodons are unique Ice Age critters, elephants with fur coats! But notice that while there are Mammoths in Canada and Alaska and Siberia (Brrr!), the Mastodons preferred Kentucky, Missouri, and Lu-Ezi-Anna, not mention South America. So, how does ONE climate change kill off TWO genera with such different climatic tastes? And why are the Elephants, furry or not, getting all the attention? Besides them, between 11,500 years ago and 10,000 years ago, North America lost five species of American Horses, all of its Camels (I'd walk a mile to see a North American Camel), the North American Llama, two kinds of Deer, two genera of Antelopes, the Woodland Musk Ox, the Giant (2X) Beaver, a variety of Ground Sloths (big ones), a Bear bigger than the Grizzly Bear (it was six feet high at the shoulder when on all fours!), the Saber-Toothed "Cat" (what we used to call the Saber-Toothed Tiger, a much classier name), the American Lion (bigger than the African), the US Cheetah, the oversized and well-named Dire Wolf, the Giant Peccary (Super-Pig), the California Tapir, and don't forget those lovable Elephants in Fur Coats... South America and Australia had even bigger Wipe-Out's than we did. There are theories, of course, all of them completely illogical to my mind. They are 1) The Ice Age ended, 2) Man the Mighty Hunter, and now, 3) The Comet. 1) The Ice Age didn't end; we just had another Interglacial, just like the other 40-odd Interglacials following the other 40-odd Glaciations in the Pleistocene Ice Age, just like always, no warmer than usual, and all these critters got through the other 40-odd Interglacials alright -- no problemo. Most of these species and genera were of Ice Age origin, arising in the last 2 to 4 million years to thrive in Ice Age cooling conditions; they were not old and doddering species. We are one of them, of course, the species that arose in that same time period for the same reason -- Ice Age Man. It's an on-going process. The Ice Age isn't over yet, you know, you Whacky Warmists. 2) Yeah, yeah... Man the Mighty Hunter. How come a handful of Clovisites could extinct the immense and nasty American Lion, one of the largest Lion species to ever live, weighing in at 650 pounds, yes, folks, extinct it on sight, when two million years of aggressive hominids couldn't put a dent in the population of the smaller, weaker, less fierce African Lion? The American Lion was the 4th most abundant mammal in North America -- not an easy extinction target. Read all about it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_World_Pleistocene_extinctions 3) The Comet. Exactly how did this evidenceless Comet extinct 75% of the largest mammals? They say, by causing a 1000-year return to the previous glacial climate. Well, all these Ice Age-adapted mammals had just finished thriving through a 25,000-year-long Ice Age to which they were specifically adapted -- what's another cool millennium to them? Nothing! Did this Comet cause the simultaneous extinctions in South America and in Europe and in Australia? Did they all have their own Comets? (This IS a possibility, but where's the evidence?) The whole case stinks. It's not a Chicxulub-No-More-Dinosaurs kind of case in the weight of evidence. It's a case of Little Comet, Little Extinction, Little Evidence Sterling K. Webb -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "tracy latimer" To: ; Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 6:39 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Exploding asteroid theory strengthened bynew evidence located in Ohio, Indiana I wish that when scientists make pronouncements like this, they would not play coy but give a thumbnail explanation why they are contradicting current thought, what evidence they have found to the contrary. Instead, the stories seem more slanted to grabbing headlines and playing to the "extraterrestrials from Procyon did it!" crowd, which may be more the news hounds than the researchers. Tracy Latimer > From: cynapse at charter.net > To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 16:47:01 -0400 > Subject: [meteorite-list] Exploding asteroid theory strengthened by new > evidence located in Ohio, Indiana > http://www.physorg.com/news134233301.html Geological evidence found in Ohio and Indiana in recent weeks is strengthening the case to attribute what happened 12,900 years ago in North America -- when the end of the last Ice Age unexpectedly turned into a phase of extinction for animals and humans -- to a cataclysmic comet or asteroid explosion over top of Canada. A comet/asteroid theory advanced by Arizona-based geophysicist Allen West in the past two years says that an object from space exploded just above the earth's surface at that time over modern-day Canada, sparking a massive shock wave and heat-generating event that set large parts of the northern hemisphere ablaze, setting the stage for the extinctions. Now University of Cincinnati Assistant Professor of Anthropology Ken Tankersley, working in conjunction with West and Indiana Geological Society Research Scientist Nelson R. Schaffer, has verified evidence from sites in Ohio and Indiana -- including, locally, Hamilton and Clermont counties in Ohio and Brown County in Indiana -- that offers the strongest support yet for the exploding comet/asteroid theory. Samples of diamonds, gold and silver that have been found in the region have been conclusively sourced through X-ray diffractometry in the lab of UC Professor of Geology Warren Huff back to the diamond fields region of Canada. The only plausible scenario available now for explaining their presence this far south is the kind of cataclysmic explosive event described by West's theory. "We believe this is the strongest evidence yet indicating a comet impact in that time period," says Tankersley. Ironically, Tankersley had gone into the field with West believing he might be able to disprove West's theory. Tankersley was familiar through years of work in this area with the diamonds, gold and silver deposits, which at one point could be found in such abundance in this region that the Hopewell Indians who lived here about 2,000 years ago engaged in trade in these items. Prevailing thought said that these deposits, which are found at a soil depth consistent with the time frame of the comet/asteroid event, had been brought south from the Great Lakes region by glaciers. "My smoking gun to disprove (West) was going to be the gold, silver and diamonds," Tankersley says. "But what I didn't know at that point was a conclusion he had reached that he had not yet made public -- that the likely point of impact for the comet wasn't just anywhere over Canada, but located over Canada's diamond-bearing fields. Instead of becoming the basis for rejecting his hypothesis, these items became the very best evidence to support it." Additional sourcing work is being done at the sites looking for iridium, micro-meteorites and nano-diamonds that bear the markers of the diamond-field region, which also should have been blasted by the impact into this region. Much of the work is being done in Sheriden Cave in north-central Ohio's Wyandot County, a rich repository of material dating back to the Ice Age. Tankersley first came into contact with West and Schaffer when they were invited guests for interdisciplinary colloquia presented by UC's Department of Geology this spring. West presented on his theory that a large comet or asteroid, believed to be more than a mile in diameter, exploded just above the earth at a time when the last Ice Age appeared to be drawing to a close. The timing attached to this theory of about 12,900 years ago is consistent with the known disappearances in North America of the wooly mammoth population and the first distinct human society to inhabit the continent, known as the Clovis civilization. At that time, climatic history suggests the Ice Age should have been drawing to a close, but a rapid change known as the Younger Dryas event, instead ushered in another 1,300 years of glacial conditions. A cataclysmic explosion consistent with West's theory would have the potential to create the kind of atmospheric turmoil necessary to produce such conditions. "The kind of evidence we are finding does suggest that climate change at the end of the last Ice Age was the result of a catastrophic event," Tankersley says. Currently, Tankersley can be seen in a new documentary airing on the National Geographic channel. The film "Ancient Asteroids" is part of that network's "Naked Science" series. The new discoveries made working with West and Schaffer will be incorporated into two more specials that Tankersley is currently involved with -- one for the PBS series "Nova" and a second for the History Channel that will be filming Tankersley and his UC students in the field this summer. Another documentary, this one being produced by the Discovery Channel and the British public television network Channel 4, will also be following Tankersley and his students later this summer. As more data continues to be compiled, Tankersley, West and Schaffer will be publishing about this newest twist in the search to explain the history of our planet and its climate. Climate change is a favorite topic for Tankersley. "The ultimate importance of this kind of work is showing that we can't control everything," he says. "Our planet has been hit by asteroids many times throughout its history, and when that happens, it does produce climate change." Source: University of Cincinnati _________________________________________________________________ Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play chicktionary! http://club.live.com/chicktionary.aspx?icid=chick_wlhmtextlink1_feb ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Thu Jul 3 06:39:51 2008 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 06:39:51 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - July 3, 2008 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/July_3_2008.html **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) From nwa482 at comcast.net Thu Jul 3 07:24:54 2008 From: nwa482 at comcast.net (Jim Strope) Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 07:24:54 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Ebay Auctions ending - Planetaries , Coins, etc Message-ID: <000201c8dcff$6ba229e0$0202a8c0@DJQVK441> Good Morning All........ I have auctions ending tonight, ebay ID catchafallingstar.com. ALL with NO Reserves!!! FULL RECAP: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZcatchafallingstar.com Of special note, I have a 3 Planetaries to offer this time: NWA 2995 Lunar, has beautiful ANORTHOSITIC clasts: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200230991738 NWA 2977 Lunar Gabbro: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200230989764 NWA 2986 Martian Shergottite: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200230995522 Plus many more. Including four of the Meteorite Medals/Coins started a 99 cents with no reserve: http://members.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPage&userid=catchafallingstar.com Thanks for looking ................ Jim Strope http://www.catchafallingstar.com From mexicodoug at aim.com Thu Jul 3 12:48:56 2008 From: mexicodoug at aim.com (mexicodoug at aim.com) Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 12:48:56 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Exploding asteroid theory strengthened bynew evidence located in Ohio, Indiana In-Reply-To: <069401c8dcdd$a9e17f70$2346e146@ATARIENGINE> References: <007001c8db9d$b9cedef0$0201a8c0@laptop><91qn64l2u9lh7n8p44roe82g9h5tkpb5ed@4ax.com> <069401c8dcdd$a9e17f70$2346e146@ATARIENGINE> Message-ID: <8CAAB43CF6D81AF-1D8C-127@webmail-stg-d07.sysops.aol.com> Hi Sterling, Darren, Tracy, Elton, et al., IMO we need a bit more tolerance for these wacky ideas. "Press release science is generally worthless." Coming from you, Sterling, I'll save the above for quoting in the future - it will be worthwhile. The idea here is that the presence of some highly durable materials (like diamonds and gold) found outside of their natural strata could be explained by impacts and airbursts??? There is no need to stomp all over these people and call them idiots repeatedly in posts for studying this idea further. None of us were there to witness these events. Much science in this realm is built on a bunch of flimsy assumptions that need to be held up to higher standards. I'm sure West and colleagues are not foaming at the mouth with insults for scientists who are not agreeable to their ideas, so there is no need for academic chest-beating a la WWF Wrestlemania. All of us are guilty for having pet theories and more importantly itis commendable when we take the iniciative to try to prove them out further by actually doing any field work at all. I think it is impressive that these folks have taken their wacky ideas a step further. Sterling, I think some of your ideas (though definitely not all) have been far more wackier than these, sometimes based on little or highly biased facts, and you've developed them shamelessly -on the list-. I frequently enjoy your wacky posts and don't call you an idiot for them althought there at times I don't particularly agree. Along these lines, I would categorize EP's cometary slant in the same category of wacky, but in the end, generally possible. If only Sherlock Holmes were here. I'd like to know what he would make of this investigation. I am trying to recall how many times Walter Alvarez was called an idiot for his ideas (which now take the form of a book "T-Rex and the Crater of Doom" ) by folks that did little or no field work to prove his ideas silly. And how many times you've insulted Dr. Gerta Keller based on non-academic and press release type garble you've quoted? But that's another subject... For the record, I am not on board with this Mammoth Stew theory (And really prefer not to be fed more of it unless the Fair One in One Million Years B.C. is doing the feeding), but I do respect an underdog for trying, and there is something that bugs me about calling people idiots behind there backs on large public internet listservers just for developing their ideas. If they want to study it - more power to them!!! In any case, they certainly have higher IQ's than idiots and deserve the respect extended to all scientists, self taught or not ... whether we agree with their ideas or not ... PS Sterling wrote: "The whole case stinks. It's not a Chicxulub-No-More-Dinosaurs kind of case in the weight of evidence." The above parody is also quite circumstancial. Better use EP's ideas, I find them more relevant. Let me see some barbecued and choked dinos of the appropriate age that were buried alive in the sediments. Best wishes, Doug -----Original Message----- From: Sterling K. Webb To: Mr EMan ; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com; cynapse at charter.net; tracy latimer Sent: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 2:23 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Exploding asteroid theory strengthened bynew evidence located in Ohio, Indiana Hi, Darren, Tracy, Elton, List, This is not a "scientific" pronouncement; it is a press release written by a press agent and as such, it is worthless. Press release science is generally worthless. It is a chaotic garble from an enthusiastic idiot, the press agent. For example (just one, though there are so many), it says the "diamonds, gold, and silver" found in deposits in Ohio and Indiana were not "pushed" there by glaciers but emplaced there by a cosmic explosive impact, an impossible notion. Since gold and silver have low melting points, a massive impact would vaporize them and there would be gold and silver microspherules deposited over half the continent. Indeed, these same people hypothesize just such microspherules for other, more refractory stuff, so this is a complete screw-up. The most famous diamond ever found in the US was drilled out of a GLACIAL till in Eagle, Waukesha Co., Wisconsin. This 15.37-carat light-yellow diamond, a rounded dodecahedral crystal, was found in 1867. Bought by a local jeweler for $1.00, he re-sold it to Tiffany's for $850. In 1889, it went to the Paris International Exhibition and it eventually became the property of a certain Mr. J. P. Morgan, who donated it to the American Museum of Natural History down the street from his house, where it was exhibited until, in 1964, it was stolen by the famous "Murph The Surf" celebrity bandit. It has never been recovered. And so it goes. In 1853, diamonds were discovered in the California gold fields in GLACIAL alluvial deposits. In 1869, in Idaho, in the same conditions. In 1883, in Montana, in a GLACIAL lake bed. In 1888, in Kentucky, in GLACIAL gravels. In Maine. In Michigan. There are natural diamonds in Arkansas and Colorado, the only diamonds NOT found in a glacial context. Kimberlite pipes have been discovered elsewhere but not explored. Any material distributed by an impact would be widely scattered, NOT concentrated in deposits. Identifying the Ohio and Indiana diamonds as originating in Canada is nothing new. We've known that for 60-70 years now. The newly productive Canadian diamond mines were found by tracing the locations of garnet finds from the US into Canada, a favorite summer project of geology grad students for fifty years (garnets are produced in the same kimberlite pipes as diamonds). On the face of it, the announcement sounds like idiocy. They say, "The only plausible scenario available now for explaining their presence this far south is the kind of cataclysmic explosive event described by West's theory." If they mean that glacial deposits can only be found as far south as the glaciers themselves, they are dead wrong. Melt floods carry materials, even big boulders, great distances. Normal stream activity carries the lighter stuff further (many isolated diamond finds are in stream placer deposits). The drainage basin of the Ohio river shows plentiful evidence of this. There are glacial deposits in Kentucky, which is further south than Ohio (in case they haven't looked south across the river from Cincinnati lately). http://books.google.com/books?id=8eFSK4o--M0C&pg=PA376&lpg=PA376&dq=southernmost+glacial+erratic+US&source=web&ots=2NcIEXv_S_&sig=IGLmBdjw-oyZJUteovXiSv-FagA&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=4&ct=result This whole thing just gets sillier and sillier. These people seem to be at a loss for logic. If there was an impact in Canada that scattered gold and diamonds south, it would have to excavate that ground where the gold and diamonds are, so it couldn't have been when Canada was covered by half-a-mile of ice, but, of course, that is exactly when they say it did happen. Impossible. Flat impossible. Firestone found some very strange isotopic anomalies 20 years ago. Since then he has thrashed about for an explanation: supernovae, comets that travel at 3% of the speed of light and impact the Earth; mammoths that are killed by microscopic iron particles shot through the Earth's atmosphere at 10,000 km/sec, black mats, bucky balls, nanodiamonds, the Carolina Bays, and now, big diamonds and gold. It's pitiful. There may or may not have been an "impact" or airburst event in this general time frame. Some of these indicators may or may not be markers of it. Certainly, many species of mammals declined and died in a short time frame and an impact may or may not have helped. But the case is weak and diffuse, the evidence vague and disputacious. We were just discussing Tunguska, which demonstrates how little evidence can be left behind after a substantial impact event. The last time this supposed impact was a topic here, I did some calculation of the effect of a massive airburst over the Laurentide Ice Sheet and gained a real appreciation of how large an energetic event could be absorbed by a half-a-mile-thick slab of ice, with hardly a trace -- even a one-kilometer object airbursting would only make a temporary glacial lake on the upper surface of the ice cap. It's questionable whether an ice-cap impact would have anything more than transient effects. The discovery that started this silliness remains -- the strange isotopic anomalies; that data continues to hold up. I call this sort of situation -- data in search of an explanation -- Orphan Facts. I don't smell parenthood in this story. "Mammoths" were a genus with eleven species, and the woolly mammoth was the last one. Most populations in North America and Eurasia died out about 12,000 years ago. Until recently, it was thought they vanished from Europe and Southern Siberia at the same time, but new findings show that some were still there about 10,000 years ago. A little later, they disappeared from continental Northern Siberia. A small population survived on St. Paul Island, Alaska, up until 8000 years ago, and some small mammoths on Wrangel Island became extinct only around 4000 years ago. Doesn't sound much like instant Death From The Sky to me. Mastodons are NOT the same as Mammoths, a different genus and not even the same family; there were two species of mastodons. But you couldn't have told the difference; I'd have run screaming from either one: same size, both furry, both with those big tusks. Mastodons were most numerous in Eastern North America -- their Heartland was our Heartland, although they were everywhere in the New World (not the Old). Their remains have been found 300 miles out in the Atlantic (it was dry land then, remember), in Nova Scotia, Kentucky, Missouri, Louisiana, Washington State, Wisconsin, Texas, Indiana, and oh, yes! -- South America! They died out about 10,000 years ago (after four million years of Ice Age happiness). One Mastodon was found in the middle of the Mississppi River! Remind me again: how does a Comet in Canada kill a furry mastodon in South America? Both Mammoths and Mastodons are unique Ice Age critters, elephants with fur coats! But notice that while there are Mammoths in Canada and Alaska and Siberia (Brrr!), the Mastodons preferred Kentucky, Missouri, and Lu-Ezi-Anna, not mention South America. So, how does ONE climate change kill off TWO genera with such different climatic tastes? And why are the Elephants, furry or not, getting all the attention? Besides them, between 11,500 years ago and 10,000 years ago, North America lost five species of American Horses, all of its Camels (I'd walk a mile to see a North American Camel), the North American Llama, two kinds of Deer, two genera of Antelopes, the Woodland Musk Ox, the Giant (2X) Beaver, a variety of Ground Sloths (big ones), a Bear bigger than the Grizzly Bear (it was six feet high at the shoulder when on all fours!), the Saber-Toothed "Cat" (what we used to call the Saber-Toothed Tiger, a much classier name), the American Lion (bigger than the African), the US Cheetah, the oversized and well-named Dire Wolf, the Giant Peccary (Super-Pig), the California Tapir, and don't forget those lovable Elephants in Fur Coats... South America and Australia had even bigger Wipe-Out's than we did. There are theories, of course, all of them completely illogical to my mind. They are 1) The Ice Age ended, 2) Man the Mighty Hunter, and now, 3) The Comet. 1) The Ice Age didn't end; we just had another Interglacial, just like the other 40-odd Interglacials following the other 40-odd Glaciations in the Pleistocene Ice Age, just like always, no warmer than usual, and all these critters got through the other 40-odd Interglacials alright -- no problemo. Most of these species and genera were of Ice Age origin, arising in the last 2 to 4 million years to thrive in Ice Age cooling conditions; they were not old and doddering species. We are one of them, of course, the species that arose in that same time period for the same reason -- Ice Age Man. It's an on-going process. The Ice Age isn't over yet, you know, you Whacky Warmists. 2) Yeah, yeah... Man the Mighty Hunter. How come a handful of Clovisites could extinct the immense and nasty American Lion, one of the largest Lion species to ever live, weighing in at 650 pounds, yes, folks, extinct it on sight, when two million years of aggressive hominids couldn't put a dent in the population of the smaller, weaker, less fierce African Lion? The American Lion was the 4th most abundant mammal in North America -- not an easy extinction target. Read all about it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_World_Pleistocene_extinctions 3) The Comet. Exactly how did this evidenceless Comet extinct 75% of the largest mammals? They say, by causing a 1000-year return to the previous glacial climate. Well, all these Ice Age-adapted mammals had just finished thriving through a 25,000-year-long Ice Age to which they were specifically adapted -- what's another cool millennium to them? Nothing! Did this Comet cause the simultaneous extinctions in South America and in Europe and in Australia? Did they all have their own Comets? (This IS a possibility, but where's the evidence?) The whole case stinks. It's not a Chicxulub-No-More-Dinosaurs kind of case in the weight of evidence. It's a case of Little Comet, Little Extinction, Little Evidence Sterling K. Webb ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "tracy latimer" To: ; Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 6:39 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Exploding asteroid theory strengthened bynew evidence located in Ohio, Indiana I wish that when scientists make pronouncements like this, they would not play coy but give a thumbnail explanation why they are contradicting current thought, what evidence they have found to the contrary. Instead, the stories seem more slanted to grabbing headlines and playing to the "extraterrestrials from Procyon did it!" crowd, which may be more the news hounds than the researchers. Tracy Latimer > From: cynapse at charter.net > To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 16:47:01 -0400 > Subject: [meteorite-list] Exploding asteroid theory strengthened by new > evidence located in Ohio, Indiana > http://www.physorg.com/news134233301.html Geological evidence found in Ohio and Indiana in recent weeks is strengthening the case to attribute what happened 12,900 years ago in North America -- when the end of the last Ice Age unexpectedly turned into a phase of extinction for animals and humans -- to a cataclysmic comet or asteroid explosion over top of Canada. A comet/asteroid theory advanced by Arizona-based geophysicist Allen West in the past two years says that an object from space exploded just above the earth's surface at that time over modern-day Canada, sparking a massive shock wave and heat-generating event that set large parts of the northern hemisphere ablaze, setting the stage for the extinctions. Now University of Cincinnati Assistant Professor of Anthropology Ken Tankersley, working in conjunction with West and Indiana Geological Society Research Scientist Nelson R. Schaffer, has verified evidence from sites in Ohio and Indiana -- including, locally, Hamilton and Clermont counties in Ohio and Brown County in Indiana -- that offers the strongest support yet for the exploding comet/asteroid theory. Samples of diamonds, gold and silver that have been found in the region have been conclusively sourced through X-ray diffractometry in the lab of UC Professor of Geology Warren Huff back to the diamond fields region of Canada. The only plausible scenario available now for explaining their presence this far south is the kind of cataclysmic explosive event described by West's theory. "We believe this is the strongest evidence yet indicating a comet impact in that time period," says Tankersley. Ironically, Tankersley had gone into the field with West believing he might be able to disprove West's theory. Tankersley was familiar through years of work in this area with the diamonds, gold and silver deposits, which at one point could be found in such abundance in this region that the Hopewell Indians who lived here about 2,000 years ago engaged in trade in these items. Prevailing thought said that these deposits, which are found at a soil depth consistent with the time frame of the comet/asteroid event, had been brought south from the Great Lakes region by glaciers. "My smoking gun to disprove (West) was going to be the gold, silver and diamonds," Tankersley says. "But what I didn't know at that point was a conclusion he had reached that he had not yet made public -- that the likely point of impact for the comet wasn't just anywhere over Canada, but located over Canada's diamond-bearing fields. Instead of becoming the basis for rejecting his hypothesis, these items became the very best evidence to support it." Additional sourcing work is being done at the sites looking for iridium, micro-meteorites and nano-diamonds that bear the markers of the diamond-field region, which also should have been blasted by the impact into this region. Much of the work is being done in Sheriden Cave in north-central Ohio's Wyandot County, a rich repository of material dating back to the Ice Age. Tankersley first came into contact with West and Schaffer when they were invited guests for interdisciplinary colloquia presented by UC's Department of Geology this spring. West presented on his theory that a large comet or asteroid, believed to be more than a mile in diameter, exploded just above the earth at a time when the last Ice Age appeared to be drawing to a close. The timing attached to this theory of about 12,900 years ago is consistent with the known disappearances in North America of the wooly mammoth population and the first distinct human society to inhabit the continent, known as the Clovis civilization. At that time, climatic history suggests the Ice Age should have been drawing to a close, but a rapid change known as the Younger Dryas event, instead ushered in another 1,300 years of glacial conditions. A cataclysmic explosion consistent with West's theory would have the potential to create the kind of atmospheric turmoil necessary to produce such conditions. "The kind of evidence we are finding does suggest that climate change at the end of the last Ice Age was the result of a catastrophic event," Tankersley says. Currently, Tankersley can be seen in a new documentary airing on the National Geographic channel. The film "Ancient Asteroids" is part of that network's "Naked Science" series. The new discoveries made working with West and Schaffer will be incorporated into two more specials that Tankersley is currently involved with -- one for the PBS series "Nova" and a second for the History Channel that will be filming Tankersley and his UC students in the field this summer. Another documentary, this one being produced by the Discovery Channel and the British public television network Channel 4, will also be following Tankersley and his students later this summer. As more data continues to be compiled, Tankersley, West and Schaffer will be publishing about this newest twist in the search to explain the history of our planet and its climate. Climate change is a favorite topic for Tankersley. "The ultimate importance of this kind of work is showing that we can't control everything," he says. "Our planet has been hit by asteroids many times throughout its history, and when that happens, it does produce climate change." Source: University of Cincinnati _________________________________________________________________ Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play chicktionary! http://club.live.com/chicktionary.aspx?icid=chick_wlhmtextlink1_feb ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mlblood at cox.net Thu Jul 3 19:44:10 2008 From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael L Blood) Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 16:44:10 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Sale - photo link (AD) In-Reply-To: <527586.58704.qm@web55205.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: The primary offering is some EXCELLENT NWA 869 (L4-6) in both part slices, end pieces - very thin, whole stones and one oriented whole stone. The slices and end pieces show EXCELLENT chondrules and many show armored chondrules. The whole stones are very cute and the oriented piece is spectacular. There is one 40g whole slice of Mali MELT that is absolutely spectacular, then but a fabulous oriented Mali that "flipped" during reentry SOLD ALL PHOTOS AT: http://community.webshots.com/album/555446862EaITwq Next come the adorable little Camel Dongas. These puppies are IMPOSSIBLE to get because dealers have always KEPT all whole specimens below 10 grams for themselves. Each is between 3.6 and 6.5g. There is also one spectacular "End Piece of only 2.11g. These are all on sale for only 37.50/g - just 2.50/g more than Regular, large specimens. They were sent from Australia about A week ago and are due any day - they were sent with an export Permit - not common from Australia (NOTE, 3.6g & 6.2g have sold) Next we end the photo section with two part slices of the impossible to get CHICO - 12.5g & 68.6g respectively. These are marked down for instant Sale to list members at only $10/g - quite the bargain since I have never seen this material (which is an L6 impact melt breccia) offered for less than $15/g. - $10/g ALL PHOTOS AT: http://community.webshots.com/album/555446862EaITwq From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Fri Jul 4 06:33:38 2008 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2008 06:33:38 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - July 4, 2008 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/July_4_2008.html **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) From entropydave at ntlworld.com Fri Jul 4 06:55:38 2008 From: entropydave at ntlworld.com (Dave Harris) Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2008 11:55:38 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad - 146g Esquel slice Message-ID: <8EF4BB1CBEDE43FC9D1C4AE49E944E3C@pitstoppc> Hi, Well, there seems to be a force trying to separate me form my 146g Esquel slice - and the hefty legal bill I have just received is finally succeeding. Please go to http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/entropydave2001/EsquelPallasite and check this baby out. I think a few of you have seen these pics many times before... I would accept the best offer closest to $4000 and swift Paypal payment. it never rains but it pours, it seems to me.... ho hum dave IMCA #0092 Sec.BIMS. www.bimsociety.org From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Fri Jul 4 11:13:32 2008 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2008 08:13:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] New Carancas article, same old crap Message-ID: <455048.3697.qm@web33101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> http://www.livinginperu.com/news-6826 Note the last part, they still think the Carancas meteorite was the size of a basketball. When will we ever get these scientists and news people off of that idiotic size comparison. I have seen it like 50 times for huge fireballs and meteorite falls. They always say "it was the size of an acorn or basketball" or some crap like that. The only way a basketball sized object could make a crater like that would be if it had a little nuclear bomb inside. Happy 4th to all Americans on the list. Michael Farmer From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Fri Jul 4 11:44:44 2008 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2008 08:44:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] New Carancas article, same old crap In-Reply-To: <2072FBA36471498193A6301F74137E2D@ArmandoPC> Message-ID: <999704.75054.qm@web33105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> "The mass was stolen by some American as usual" What a pathetic statement by you. To steal would be to take something that is not yours. I paid for every gram of meteorite from the people who owned it, the Aymara people who's land it fell on. And somehow I doubt that my 700 grams of meteorite comprised the mass. Either way, the amount I bought was reported to the scientists who did the work on the meteorite, so the fact that pieces were sold on ebay by Pervians, Bolivians, Americans, Germans etc, has no affect on the scientific study of the crater or meteorite. Why no hatred or mention of them Armando, or is it only Americans who steal, the Bolivans got theirs legally in your eyes right? Get over yourself Armando, you are clearly nothing more than a bitter anti-American, nothing more. Funny, Americans have had wars with Germany, Italy, and England, but never with Portugal, so where does this intense hatred come from? We all would like to know. I think it comes from the fact that I beat you to the prize in your own country, of course you say I stole Ourique, even though I bought most of it. You also bought a large piece you told this list, did you somehow pay with different money which means your piece is not stolen? I still cant figure this one out. Michael Farmer --- On Fri, 7/4/08, Armando Afonso wrote: > From: Armando Afonso > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New Carancas article, same old crap > To: "Michael Farmer" , meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Friday, July 4, 2008, 9:30 AM > The size of a crater is related not only to the impactor?s > mass, but to > velocity, as everyone knows. > If none of the variables could be measured (the mass was > stollen by some > american and sold in ebay, as usual :-) ), how can you have > a better idea > than others of the size of the meteoroid? > > Armando > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Michael Farmer" > > To: > Sent: Friday, July 04, 2008 4:13 PM > Subject: [meteorite-list] New Carancas article, same old > crap > > > > http://www.livinginperu.com/news-6826 > > > > Note the last part, they still think the Carancas > meteorite was the size > > of a basketball. When will we ever get these > scientists and news people > > off of that idiotic size comparison. I have seen it > like 50 times for huge > > fireballs and meteorite falls. They always say > "it was the size of an > > acorn or basketball" or some crap like that. The > only way a basketball > > sized object could make a crater like that would be if > it had a little > > nuclear bomb inside. > > Happy 4th to all Americans on the list. > > Michael Farmer > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Fri Jul 4 12:29:13 2008 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2008 18:29:13 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] New Carancas -unfortunately not the same old crap anymore... In-Reply-To: <999704.75054.qm@web33105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <2072FBA36471498193A6301F74137E2D@ArmandoPC> <999704.75054.qm@web33105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <003801c8ddf3$195a2a30$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Jan Hattenbach visited the remainders of the crater a month ago, here his report and some pictures. http://kuerzer.de/Cara He writes, that the crater walls sank down, are much lower now and the bottom of the crater is almost totally silted up. The water inside is only a couple of inches deep. So the initial objective not to look for meteoritic material, but to preserve the crater instead, failed. All tourist/scientific projects will have a commemorative character. Martin From epgrondine at yahoo.com Fri Jul 4 13:16:49 2008 From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine) Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2008 10:16:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Hopewell Iron not from Brenham? Message-ID: <679724.8903.qm@web36903.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi all - I hope this link to Prufer's 1961 paper works: http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:cGSQ6WmkN1kJ:https://kb.osu.edu/dspace/bitstream/1811/4817/1/V61N06_341.pdf+Hopewell+gold+artifacts&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=19&gl=us according to the analysis, Hopewell iron was not from Brenham. The lack of finds in Illinois seems to clinch his argument. I did not know of his paper when I wrote "Man and Impact in the Americas"; I wish I had. Does anyone have any estimates on how far away the Brenham impact would have been audable/visible? The Five Nations appear to have remembered an iron fall about the time of Brenham, so I am now beginning to suspect an iron stream of fragments. Given this situation, the distribution of the Hopewell iron artifacts becomes much more interesting. E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas From dave.carothers at cox.net Fri Jul 4 13:34:05 2008 From: dave.carothers at cox.net (Dave Carothers) Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2008 13:34:05 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] New Carancas -unfortunately not the same oldcrap anymore... In-Reply-To: <003801c8ddf3$195a2a30$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: It appears that everything Mike Farmer predicted about the crater and "recovery efforts" has become reality. Dave -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com]On Behalf Of Martin Altmann Sent: Friday, July 04, 2008 12:29 PM To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New Carancas -unfortunately not the same oldcrap anymore... Jan Hattenbach visited the remainders of the crater a month ago, here his report and some pictures. http://kuerzer.de/Cara He writes, that the crater walls sank down, are much lower now and the bottom of the crater is almost totally silted up. The water inside is only a couple of inches deep. So the initial objective not to look for meteoritic material, but to preserve the crater instead, failed. All tourist/scientific projects will have a commemorative character. Martin ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From epgrondine at yahoo.com Fri Jul 4 13:36:14 2008 From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine) Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2008 10:36:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Holocene start Comet impacts NOT the Two Iron impacts Message-ID: <723603.22167.qm@web36903.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi Sterling, We went through this months ago. The Holocene start comet impacts are not the iron impacts that produced the iron microspherules, but are distinct and known to be distinct from the radio carbon dates. The search is on right now for the craters from the iron impacts. Re: Climate - What I suspect happened was that the holocene start impacts had an effect on the North Pacific current. Before the impacts the Lenape are hunting sea turtle on the west coast of today's Canada. The warm moist air from this warm current fell as snow on Canada, reflecting sunlight back into space, cooling the Earth. After the impacts the North Pacific current cools; less snow on today's Canada, less sunlight reflected back into space, the Earth warms. How the effects of the melt affected estimates of global temperature ("Younger Dryas"), I don't know, and can't work out - I've had a stroke. I suspect that globally the Earth warmed continuously after the comet impacts. The state of the research is pitiful, and that reflects funding for impact research in the US, which is pitiful. E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas From epgrondine at yahoo.com Fri Jul 4 13:51:58 2008 From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine) Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2008 10:51:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Holocene start Extinction Level Event Message-ID: <106935.18398.qm@web36901.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi Sterling - "Remind me again: how does a Comet in Canada kill a furry mastodon in South America? Both Mammoths and Mastodons are unique Ice Age critters, elephants with fur coats! But notice that while there are Mammoths in Canada and Alaska and Siberia (Brrr!), the Mastodons preferred Kentucky, Missouri, and Lu-Ezi-Anna, not mention South America. So, how does ONE climate change kill off TWO genera with such different climatic tastes?" First off, that's comet fragments, more than one, and their dust. How? By starvation. Same thing that killed the horses at the same time. Bison survived; they were hardy, and ate short tundra like grass. Mammoth and mastodon fur is suspected to be insulating against both cold and heat, like a camel's fur. The big mystery is the mammoth survival on the northern islands. But then birds are dinosaurs - I suppose it will be worked out in time. It sure would be nice to get a date and impactor type for the Ilturalde Crater. E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Fri Jul 4 17:51:11 2008 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2008 16:51:11 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Holocene start Extinction Level Event References: <106935.18398.qm@web36901.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <06e601c8de20$1370d2e0$2346e146@ATARIENGINE> Hi, EP, List, EP wrote: > First off, that's comet fragments, more than one, and their dust. Yes, that's the Napier-Clube-Baillie Theory, but these guys are part of the Firestone & Company Camp and they believe in one Big Whack over the Ice Cap, a whole other cup of disaster. Like you (I imagine), I like the Napier-Clube-Baillie variation a lot better. But they don't. EP wrote > fur... insulating against both cold and heat Critters so massive, with a high ratio of body mass to surface area, need to dump heat in warmer climates. However, Mastodons had fur, short fur, only and no insulating wool, while the Woolly Mammoth had both, as the name implies. However, the climate was not hot; it's an Ice Age, remember. It is good to remember how much the world changes. One encounters everywhere the universal notion that the Amazonian Rain Forest is ancient, primeval, some sort of Jungle Eden from the Dawn of Time. Pretentious bosh. And wrong. The Amazonian Rain Forest is a brand spanking new Post-Glacial development. 12-14,000 years ago, those jungles were not jungles. The Amazonian Rain Forest was the Amazonian Grassy Plains, like the Pampas, a Sea of Grass with meandering rivers (much smaller rivers than today) and scattered clumps of trees, perfect Elephant country (Mastodons are elephants; the Mammoths are not, quite different, though they don't look it). EP wrote: > How? By starvation. Same thing that killed the horses at the same > time. Bison survived; they were hardy, and ate short tundra like grass. Let's straighten this out. There's 25,000 years of glaciation: very cold. Then, it begins to warm up a few degrees for a few thousand years. Then comes the Younger Dryas, a thousand years during which things cool off again, but not all the way back to glacial levels. Then, the warming resumes and the Interglacial begins in earnest. The YD is a hiccup. That's the history. Now, the five species of horse and ALL the other critters on the list were happy as clams during the 25,000 years of glaciation. It warms for a few thousand years, then cools again, and the cold kills them? Gimme a break. Whatever grass could grow in glacial conditions was enough for the horses to thrive. Whatever grass could grow in warmer conditions, LIKE NOW, is enough for horses to thrive. Grass is ubiquitous, and if its range shifts, well, horses travel well, you know. Then, there's Musk Ox, who can graze contentedly on crap a Bison wouldn't touch (and couldn't). The Musk Oxen munch on moss and lichens and such while all around them Bison keel over like victims of anorexia. The Death of the Grass wouldn't phase them at all. Why didn't the Musk Ox survive? In deference to Mexico Doug's sensibilities, I will not call the climatic theory of extinction anything crude and non-correct; I will call it "grossly inadequate, not a product of careful thought, and a collection of archaic prejudices." EP wrote: > How? By starvation... You could argue that these species are all large, require lots of food and are vunerable to smaller shifts in climate than little omnivorous species like... Pack Rats! Small burrowing rodents are about the hardest critter in the universe to kill. Ever tried? Then, you know what I mean. So, it comes as a big surprise that the Pleistocene Vole, the ultimate omnivore and pack rat that thrived through the worst of the Ice Age and the warmest of Interglacials (warmer than now) for 800,000 years, suddenly and inexplicably went extinct only 9500 years ago! http://berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2003/10/21_packrat.shtml Someone explain that, please... Hunted to extinction by Clovis Man, perhaps? Sterling K. Webb ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- Original Message ----- From: "E.P. Grondine" To: Sent: Friday, July 04, 2008 12:51 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Holocene start Extinction Level Event Hi Sterling - "Remind me again: how does a Comet in Canada kill a furry mastodon in South America? Both Mammoths and Mastodons are unique Ice Age critters, elephants with fur coats! But notice that while there are Mammoths in Canada and Alaska and Siberia (Brrr!), the Mastodons preferred Kentucky, Missouri, and Lu-Ezi-Anna, not mention South America. So, how does ONE climate change kill off TWO genera with such different climatic tastes?" First off, that's comet fragments, more than one, and their dust. How? By starvation. Same thing that killed the horses at the same time. Bison survived; they were hardy, and ate short tundra like grass. Mammoth and mastodon fur is suspected to be insulating against both cold and heat, like a camel's fur. The big mystery is the mammoth survival on the northern islands. But then birds are dinosaurs - I suppose it will be worked out in time. It sure would be nice to get a date and impactor type for the Ilturalde Crater. E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Fri Jul 4 18:40:57 2008 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2008 17:40:57 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Exploding asteroid theory strengthened bynew evidence located in Ohio, Indiana References: <007001c8db9d$b9cedef0$0201a8c0@laptop><91qn64l2u9lh7n8p44roe82g9h5tkpb5ed@4ax.com> <069401c8dcdd$a9e17f70$2346e146@ATARIENGINE> <8CAAB43CF6D81AF-1D8C-127@webmail-stg-d07.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <06eb01c8de27$07305d00$2346e146@ATARIENGINE> Hi, Doug, List, Doug wrote: > the presence of some highly durable materials > (like diamonds and gold) found outside of their > natural strata could be explained by impacts > and airbursts Gold is only chemically durable. Otherwise, no. Any impact would VAPORIZE it, not transport it. They specify the source location very precisely. The Canadian diamonds are buried in the tundra at the supposed time of "impact" and that tundra is covered by more than half-a-mile, or perhaps 3500 feet of Ice Cap. How does an airburst excavate and transport them, Doug? Think, Doug, think real hard. Doug wrote: > no need to... call them idiots repeatedly I searched the document and I used "idiot" one time only: "an enthusiastic idiot, the press agent." I stand by that. I characterized certain assertions as "idiotic" because... well, because they are. Doug wrote: > a bit more tolerance for these wacky ideas... This is not Galileo in Rome, Doug; this is "Get a headline for Southern Ohio." It's not about "whacky." That's just a euphemism for right or wrong, competent or not. It's a decision you have to make all the time in science and one which is made constantly, even between friends. Science works by challenge. Doug wrote: > calling people idiots behind there backs... As I pointed out, the only "idiot" call was on the press agent, not the researchers. As for being "behind their backs," the total inaccessibility of the non-affiliated to any journals or publications, an inaccessibility forced on science by academic publishers who charge $5000 a year for journal subscriptions, is science turning its back on the society that supports it, and leaves the "press release" as the only presentation of their work to the public. This press release makes no reference to any upcoming publication, not even a note or notice nor presentation to any professional conference, which there would be if anything had been submitted to anywhere. It's just a press rave. I read 30 to 50 pieces of "press release" science A DAY, and most of it is incoherent garble. If that is the ONLY presentation of your ideas that you make to the world, you largely deserve what you get. And lastly, I note your post is mostly about manners and etiquette on the List, not about facts, evidence and the logic of arguments. I am interested in the facts, the evidence, and the logic, not in a standard of etiquette that is equally accepting of any statement regardless of how dumb it is. Explain to me again how an explosive event 1000+ miles away, rather than scattering the target materials in every direction, herds them to a concentrated deposit in Ohio? Doug wrote: > ...how many times you've insulted Dr. Gerta Keller based > on non-academic and press release type garble you've quoted? I never quoted press reports, etc. in criticizing Keller. The only criticism of Keller I ever posted was to point to Smits' website where, as one expert on sedimentation to another, he destroys her work quite thoroughly and in the process demonstrates her incompetence. He presents pages and pages of evidence, transcripts of their debates, Q&A letters, dozens of photos and micrographs. If you haven't read it, you should before leaping off the Keller Cliff: http://www.geo.vu.nl/~smit/csdp/debates.htm How many times? Don't know, but not enough. Doug wrote: > For the record, I am not on board with this... theory... > but I do respect an underdog for trying... Jeez, Doug, this is not a small-scale sports event, like minor-league baseball game. Underdog? How do you have an underdog in true or false? Firestone & Co.'s notions are one flavor of the many small comet theories, a poorly evidenced one. There's the Napier & Clube variation dating back some decades. More recently, the dentrochronologist Mike Baillie put forward a better evidenced variation. I tend to agree with the general theory. The basic idea is derived from the dynamic differences in the way meteoroids and "cometoids" are delivered to the Earth. We experience a seemingly "steady state" of the infall of small rocky objects and a regular though random infall of larger and more damaging rocky objects. This seemingly regular "delivery" from the asteroid zone has accustomed us to the notion of "regular but random" impacts. In contrast to the generalized progression of material from the asteroid zone to the inner solar system, cometary materials seem to arrive in a less homogeneous manner, by different orbital mechanics. Shorter period comets evolve from longer period comets by encounters with more massive bodies. Sooner or later, semi-regularly, a large cometary object gets trapped in the inner system. It suffers a high rate of encounters and impacts; it degrades thermally; it starts to disintegrate; and the Earth is suddenly subject to a high frequency of encounters with swarms of debris and debris streams until they are cleaned up by colliding with the inner planets and each other and are chewed into dust. Instead of "regular but random" impacts, they come in "clusters." Non-stochastic events are much harder to believe in. There's always a string of meteoroid falls and every century or so we get a big one, hard not to believe in that. But, to be told that things will be completely quiet, without a sign of trouble, for a millennium or so, but then, you will get pounded with End of the World, Blood of the Lamb stuff for a decade or a century -- the Sky will be Black at Noon, the Night will be Full of Lights and Fires, the rivers will freeze in June, crops will fail -- it's a strictly Medieval Show. It's a hard sell. It sounds, well... Whacky! Or, at the least, overly melodramatic for any respectable idea. Strangely enough, a glance at History reveals that it, of course, is periodically full of just such reported events. We sadly shake our heads and see them as an example of ignorance and superstition on the part of an irrational and uneducated folk who were not Enlightened, as we are. The Poor Slobs. Boy, were they dumb! To fall for that stuff... The world, of course, is indifferent to how humans characterize it. The Universe is neither the Clean, Well-Lighted Place we like to think it is, nor the Medieval Demonic Nightmare. It is what it is, whatever that is. To discover that we look for evidence. One big piece of evidence is right under our noses, or rather, right over our noses. It's the Zodaical Light. The Zodaical dust cloud cannot persist long; it is depleted by 20 to 40 tons of dust per second, so even though it masses 10 to 40 billion tons of dust, it cannot last long without constant replenishment. 99.9% of it is "later-generation" dust, that is, from the breakdown of solar system small bodies -- comets and asteroids. How much from which bodies is the subject of bloody controversy. But we do not see enough asteroidal (meteroidal) activity in the present day to come anywhere close to accounting for the volume needed for replenishment. So, perhaps we really do have "comet storms," unpredictable, short, intense epochs of bombardment which come out of nowhere and disappear the same way. Almost as if it were a strategy, it is composed low density materials that are airburst, that dustload the atmosphere, kick the climatic balance over, disrupt human activities like agricultural civilizations, and sow chaos instead of "merely" leaving a big crater behind. Very neat. No fingerprints, or very few. The Perfect Crime. There really is no doubt that large cometary bodies can be trapped in the inner solar system and devolve this way. That much is distinctly true. The mechanism was elucidated by Laplace (that's a long time ago) and further explicated by Whipple and Kuiper. It's not a new notion. It's just that its full implications were not thought of until 40 or 50 years ago. This notion is "unpopular" among American academics, is more accepted in Europe, and is most accepted in the UK, though still a minority view. The problem is finding evidence, unequivocal evidence. We should look for it, but we should do a better job than this. Or we could just wait for it to happen to us. Sterling K. Webb ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2008 11:48 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Exploding asteroid theory strengthened bynew evidence located in Ohio, Indiana Hi Sterling, Darren, Tracy, Elton, et al., IMO we need a bit more tolerance for these wacky ideas. "Press release science is generally worthless." Coming from you, Sterling, I'll save the above for quoting in the future - it will be worthwhile. The idea here is that the presence of some highly durable materials (like diamonds and gold) found outside of their natural strata could be explained by impacts and airbursts??? There is no need to stomp all over these people and call them idiots repeatedly in posts for studying this idea further. None of us were there to witness these events. Much science in this realm is built on a bunch of flimsy assumptions that need to be held up to higher standards. I'm sure West and colleagues are not foaming at the mouth with insults for scientists who are not agreeable to their ideas, so there is no need for academic chest-beating a la WWF Wrestlemania. All of us are guilty for having pet theories and more importantly itis commendable when we take the iniciative to try to prove them out further by actually doing any field work at all. I think it is impressive that these folks have taken their wacky ideas a step further. Sterling, I think some of your ideas (though definitely not all) have been far more wackier than these, sometimes based on little or highly biased facts, and you've developed them shamelessly -on the list-. I frequently enjoy your wacky posts and don't call you an idiot for them althought there at times I don't particularly agree. Along these lines, I would categorize EP's cometary slant in the same category of wacky, but in the end, generally possible. If only Sherlock Holmes were here. I'd like to know what he would make of this investigation. I am trying to recall how many times Walter Alvarez was called an idiot for his ideas (which now take the form of a book "T-Rex and the Crater of Doom" ) by folks that did little or no field work to prove his ideas silly. And how many times you've insulted Dr. Gerta Keller based on non-academic and press release type garble you've quoted? But that's another subject... For the record, I am not on board with this Mammoth Stew theory (And really prefer not to be fed more of it unless the Fair One in One Million Years B.C. is doing the feeding), but I do respect an underdog for trying, and there is something that bugs me about calling people idiots behind there backs on large public internet listservers just for developing their ideas. If they want to study it - more power to them!!! In any case, they certainly have higher IQ's than idiots and deserve the respect extended to all scientists, self taught or not ... whether we agree with their ideas or not ... PS Sterling wrote: "The whole case stinks. It's not a Chicxulub-No-More-Dinosaurs kind of case in the weight of evidence." The above parody is also quite circumstancial. Better use EP's ideas, I find them more relevant. Let me see some barbecued and choked dinos of the appropriate age that were buried alive in the sediments. Best wishes, Doug -----Original Message----- From: Sterling K. Webb To: Mr EMan ; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com; cynapse at charter.net; tracy latimer Sent: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 2:23 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Exploding asteroid theory strengthened bynew evidence located in Ohio, Indiana Hi, Darren, Tracy, Elton, List, This is not a "scientific" pronouncement; it is a press release written by a press agent and as such, it is worthless. Press release science is generally worthless. It is a chaotic garble from an enthusiastic idiot, the press agent. For example (just one, though there are so many), it says the "diamonds, gold, and silver" found in deposits in Ohio and Indiana were not "pushed" there by glaciers but emplaced there by a cosmic explosive impact, an impossible notion. Since gold and silver have low melting points, a massive impact would vaporize them and there would be gold and silver microspherules deposited over half the continent. Indeed, these same people hypothesize just such microspherules for other, more refractory stuff, so this is a complete screw-up. The most famous diamond ever found in the US was drilled out of a GLACIAL till in Eagle, Waukesha Co., Wisconsin. This 15.37-carat light-yellow diamond, a rounded dodecahedral crystal, was found in 1867. Bought by a local jeweler for $1.00, he re-sold it to Tiffany's for $850. In 1889, it went to the Paris International Exhibition and it eventually became the property of a certain Mr. J. P. Morgan, who donated it to the American Museum of Natural History down the street from his house, where it was exhibited until, in 1964, it was stolen by the famous "Murph The Surf" celebrity bandit. It has never been recovered. And so it goes. In 1853, diamonds were discovered in the California gold fields in GLACIAL alluvial deposits. In 1869, in Idaho, in the same conditions. In 1883, in Montana, in a GLACIAL lake bed. In 1888, in Kentucky, in GLACIAL gravels. In Maine. In Michigan. There are natural diamonds in Arkansas and Colorado, the only diamonds NOT found in a glacial context. Kimberlite pipes have been discovered elsewhere but not explored. Any material distributed by an impact would be widely scattered, NOT concentrated in deposits. Identifying the Ohio and Indiana diamonds as originating in Canada is nothing new. We've known that for 60-70 years now. The newly productive Canadian diamond mines were found by tracing the locations of garnet finds from the US into Canada, a favorite summer project of geology grad students for fifty years (garnets are produced in the same kimberlite pipes as diamonds). On the face of it, the announcement sounds like idiocy. They say, "The only plausible scenario available now for explaining their presence this far south is the kind of cataclysmic explosive event described by West's theory." If they mean that glacial deposits can only be found as far south as the glaciers themselves, they are dead wrong. Melt floods carry materials, even big boulders, great distances. Normal stream activity carries the lighter stuff further (many isolated diamond finds are in stream placer deposits). The drainage basin of the Ohio river shows plentiful evidence of this. There are glacial deposits in Kentucky, which is further south than Ohio (in case they haven't looked south across the river from Cincinnati lately). http://books.google.com/books?id=8eFSK4o--M0C&pg=PA376&lpg=PA376&dq=southernmost+glacial+erratic+US&source=web&ots=2NcIEXv_S_&sig=IGLmBdjw-oyZJUteovXiSv-FagA&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=4&ct=result This whole thing just gets sillier and sillier. These people seem to be at a loss for logic. If there was an impact in Canada that scattered gold and diamonds south, it would have to excavate that ground where the gold and diamonds are, so it couldn't have been when Canada was covered by half-a-mile of ice, but, of course, that is exactly when they say it did happen. Impossible. Flat impossible. Firestone found some very strange isotopic anomalies 20 years ago. Since then he has thrashed about for an explanation: supernovae, comets that travel at 3% of the speed of light and impact the Earth; mammoths that are killed by microscopic iron particles shot through the Earth's atmosphere at 10,000 km/sec, black mats, bucky balls, nanodiamonds, the Carolina Bays, and now, big diamonds and gold. It's pitiful. There may or may not have been an "impact" or airburst event in this general time frame. Some of these indicators may or may not be markers of it. Certainly, many species of mammals declined and died in a short time frame and an impact may or may not have helped. But the case is weak and diffuse, the evidence vague and disputacious. We were just discussing Tunguska, which demonstrates how little evidence can be left behind after a substantial impact event. The last time this supposed impact was a topic here, I did some calculation of the effect of a massive airburst over the Laurentide Ice Sheet and gained a real appreciation of how large an energetic event could be absorbed by a half-a-mile-thick slab of ice, with hardly a trace -- even a one-kilometer object airbursting would only make a temporary glacial lake on the upper surface of the ice cap. It's questionable whether an ice-cap impact would have anything more than transient effects. The discovery that started this silliness remains -- the strange isotopic anomalies; that data continues to hold up. I call this sort of situation -- data in search of an explanation -- Orphan Facts. I don't smell parenthood in this story. "Mammoths" were a genus with eleven species, and the woolly mammoth was the last one. Most populations in North America and Eurasia died out about 12,000 years ago. Until recently, it was thought they vanished from Europe and Southern Siberia at the same time, but new findings show that some were still there about 10,000 years ago. A little later, they disappeared from continental Northern Siberia. A small population survived on St. Paul Island, Alaska, up until 8000 years ago, and some small mammoths on Wrangel Island became extinct only around 4000 years ago. Doesn't sound much like instant Death From The Sky to me. Mastodons are NOT the same as Mammoths, a different genus and not even the same family; there were two species of mastodons. But you couldn't have told the difference; I'd have run screaming from either one: same size, both furry, both with those big tusks. Mastodons were most numerous in Eastern North America -- their Heartland was our Heartland, although they were everywhere in the New World (not the Old). Their remains have been found 300 miles out in the Atlantic (it was dry land then, remember), in Nova Scotia, Kentucky, Missouri, Louisiana, Washington State, Wisconsin, Texas, Indiana, and oh, yes! -- South America! They died out about 10,000 years ago (after four million years of Ice Age happiness). One Mastodon was found in the middle of the Mississppi River! Remind me again: how does a Comet in Canada kill a furry mastodon in South America? Both Mammoths and Mastodons are unique Ice Age critters, elephants with fur coats! But notice that while there are Mammoths in Canada and Alaska and Siberia (Brrr!), the Mastodons preferred Kentucky, Missouri, and Lu-Ezi-Anna, not mention South America. So, how does ONE climate change kill off TWO genera with such different climatic tastes? And why are the Elephants, furry or not, getting all the attention? Besides them, between 11,500 years ago and 10,000 years ago, North America lost five species of American Horses, all of its Camels (I'd walk a mile to see a North American Camel), the North American Llama, two kinds of Deer, two genera of Antelopes, the Woodland Musk Ox, the Giant (2X) Beaver, a variety of Ground Sloths (big ones), a Bear bigger than the Grizzly Bear (it was six feet high at the shoulder when on all fours!), the Saber-Toothed "Cat" (what we used to call the Saber-Toothed Tiger, a much classier name), the American Lion (bigger than the African), the US Cheetah, the oversized and well-named Dire Wolf, the Giant Peccary (Super-Pig), the California Tapir, and don't forget those lovable Elephants in Fur Coats... South America and Australia had even bigger Wipe-Out's than we did. There are theories, of course, all of them completely illogical to my mind. They are 1) The Ice Age ended, 2) Man the Mighty Hunter, and now, 3) The Comet. 1) The Ice Age didn't end; we just had another Interglacial, just like the other 40-odd Interglacials following the other 40-odd Glaciations in the Pleistocene Ice Age, just like always, no warmer than usual, and all these critters got through the other 40-odd Interglacials alright -- no problemo. Most of these species and genera were of Ice Age origin, arising in the last 2 to 4 million years to thrive in Ice Age cooling conditions; they were not old and doddering species. We are one of them, of course, the species that arose in that same time period for the same reason -- Ice Age Man. It's an on-going process. The Ice Age isn't over yet, you know, you Whacky Warmists. 2) Yeah, yeah... Man the Mighty Hunter. How come a handful of Clovisites could extinct the immense and nasty American Lion, one of the largest Lion species to ever live, weighing in at 650 pounds, yes, folks, extinct it on sight, when two million years of aggressive hominids couldn't put a dent in the population of the smaller, weaker, less fierce African Lion? The American Lion was the 4th most abundant mammal in North America -- not an easy extinction target. Read all about it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_World_Pleistocene_extinctions 3) The Comet. Exactly how did this evidenceless Comet extinct 75% of the largest mammals? They say, by causing a 1000-year return to the previous glacial climate. Well, all these Ice Age-adapted mammals had just finished thriving through a 25,000-year-long Ice Age to which they were specifically adapted -- what's another cool millennium to them? Nothing! Did this Comet cause the simultaneous extinctions in South America and in Europe and in Australia? Did they all have their own Comets? (This IS a possibility, but where's the evidence?) The whole case stinks. It's not a Chicxulub-No-More-Dinosaurs kind of case in the weight of evidence. It's a case of Little Comet, Little Extinction, Little Evidence Sterling K. Webb ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "tracy latimer" To: ; Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 6:39 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Exploding asteroid theory strengthened bynew evidence located in Ohio, Indiana I wish that when scientists make pronouncements like this, they would not play coy but give a thumbnail explanation why they are contradicting current thought, what evidence they have found to the contrary. Instead, the stories seem more slanted to grabbing headlines and playing to the "extraterrestrials from Procyon did it!" crowd, which may be more the news hounds than the researchers. Tracy Latimer > From: cynapse at charter.net > To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 16:47:01 -0400 > Subject: [meteorite-list] Exploding asteroid theory strengthened by new > evidence located in Ohio, Indiana > http://www.physorg.com/news134233301.html Geological evidence found in Ohio and Indiana in recent weeks is strengthening the case to attribute what happened 12,900 years ago in North America -- when the end of the last Ice Age unexpectedly turned into a phase of extinction for animals and humans -- to a cataclysmic comet or asteroid explosion over top of Canada. A comet/asteroid theory advanced by Arizona-based geophysicist Allen West in the past two years says that an object from space exploded just above the earth's surface at that time over modern-day Canada, sparking a massive shock wave and heat-generating event that set large parts of the northern hemisphere ablaze, setting the stage for the extinctions. Now University of Cincinnati Assistant Professor of Anthropology Ken Tankersley, working in conjunction with West and Indiana Geological Society Research Scientist Nelson R. Schaffer, has verified evidence from sites in Ohio and Indiana -- including, locally, Hamilton and Clermont counties in Ohio and Brown County in Indiana -- that offers the strongest support yet for the exploding comet/asteroid theory. Samples of diamonds, gold and silver that have been found in the region have been conclusively sourced through X-ray diffractometry in the lab of UC Professor of Geology Warren Huff back to the diamond fields region of Canada. The only plausible scenario available now for explaining their presence this far south is the kind of cataclysmic explosive event described by West's theory. "We believe this is the strongest evidence yet indicating a comet impact in that time period," says Tankersley. Ironically, Tankersley had gone into the field with West believing he might be able to disprove West's theory. Tankersley was familiar through years of work in this area with the diamonds, gold and silver deposits, which at one point could be found in such abundance in this region that the Hopewell Indians who lived here about 2,000 years ago engaged in trade in these items. Prevailing thought said that these deposits, which are found at a soil depth consistent with the time frame of the comet/asteroid event, had been brought south from the Great Lakes region by glaciers. "My smoking gun to disprove (West) was going to be the gold, silver and diamonds," Tankersley says. "But what I didn't know at that point was a conclusion he had reached that he had not yet made public -- that the likely point of impact for the comet wasn't just anywhere over Canada, but located over Canada's diamond-bearing fields. Instead of becoming the basis for rejecting his hypothesis, these items became the very best evidence to support it." Additional sourcing work is being done at the sites looking for iridium, micro-meteorites and nano-diamonds that bear the markers of the diamond-field region, which also should have been blasted by the impact into this region. Much of the work is being done in Sheriden Cave in north-central Ohio's Wyandot County, a rich repository of material dating back to the Ice Age. Tankersley first came into contact with West and Schaffer when they were invited guests for interdisciplinary colloquia presented by UC's Department of Geology this spring. West presented on his theory that a large comet or asteroid, believed to be more than a mile in diameter, exploded just above the earth at a time when the last Ice Age appeared to be drawing to a close. The timing attached to this theory of about 12,900 years ago is consistent with the known disappearances in North America of the wooly mammoth population and the first distinct human society to inhabit the continent, known as the Clovis civilization. At that time, climatic history suggests the Ice Age should have been drawing to a close, but a rapid change known as the Younger Dryas event, instead ushered in another 1,300 years of glacial conditions. A cataclysmic explosion consistent with West's theory would have the potential to create the kind of atmospheric turmoil necessary to produce such conditions. "The kind of evidence we are finding does suggest that climate change at the end of the last Ice Age was the result of a catastrophic event," Tankersley says. Currently, Tankersley can be seen in a new documentary airing on the National Geographic channel. The film "Ancient Asteroids" is part of that network's "Naked Science" series. The new discoveries made working with West and Schaffer will be incorporated into two more specials that Tankersley is currently involved with -- one for the PBS series "Nova" and a second for the History Channel that will be filming Tankersley and his UC students in the field this summer. Another documentary, this one being produced by the Discovery Channel and the British public television network Channel 4, will also be following Tankersley and his students later this summer. As more data continues to be compiled, Tankersley, West and Schaffer will be publishing about this newest twist in the search to explain the history of our planet and its climate. Climate change is a favorite topic for Tankersley. "The ultimate importance of this kind of work is showing that we can't control everything," he says. "Our planet has been hit by asteroids many times throughout its history, and when that happens, it does produce climate change." Source: University of Cincinnati _________________________________________________________________ Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play chicktionary! http://club.live.com/chicktionary.aspx?icid=chick_wlhmtextlink1_feb ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From michael at spacerocksinc.com Sat Jul 5 08:47:45 2008 From: michael at spacerocksinc.com (Michael Johnson) Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2008 05:47:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - July 5, 2008 Message-ID: <25365595.77821215262065166.JavaMail.root@mbs6.homesteadmail.com> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/July_5_2008.html ________________ Michael Johnson http://www.spacerocksinc.com From epgrondine at yahoo.com Sat Jul 5 10:15:47 2008 From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine) Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2008 07:15:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Holocene start Extinction Level Event Message-ID: <305695.44716.qm@web36907.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi Sterling, all - As you read this, please remember I've had a major stroke. You left a new disease off of your list of extinction causes, and this could do the job quite fast, evolving among a starved population. We don't know if the Holocene Start Impacts were from fragments of Comet Encke, or another comet. I don't think Clube, Napier, and Baillie have commented on them at all. The starvation span may only have been for a year, or for a few months. But then a short time without food is enough to kill. Add in human hunting of the remainder, and then gone. As you say, we have trouble imagining the ancient climate. For that matter, I wonder how much of the "Younger Dryas is simply the measurement of cold melt water. I don't know how warm it was to the south during the last Ice Age, hence the note on Mammoth fur. Mammoth/Mastodon - the way I keep it straight is to remember that mastodon were bush eaters, if need be, and evolved for it. I don't know about the teeth on American Musk Ox, but suspect they were long grass eaters as well. Voles are dung eaters, and any disease would have hit them hard. Given your dates, I would suspect new European disease vectors, brought in by the Red Paint People at 8,350 BCE. I think that you and I can agree that given that there are now some six billion people on this planet, it might be nice to know with some certainty how it operated and will operate. E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas --- On Fri, 7/4/08, Sterling K. Webb wrote: > From: Sterling K. Webb > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Holocene start Extinction Level Event > To: epgrondine at yahoo.com, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Friday, July 4, 2008, 5:51 PM > Hi, EP, List, > > EP wrote: > > First off, that's comet fragments, more than one, > and their dust. > > Yes, that's the Napier-Clube-Baillie Theory, but > these guys > are part of the Firestone & Company Camp and they > believe in > one Big Whack over the Ice Cap, a whole other cup of > disaster. > > Like you (I imagine), I like the Napier-Clube-Baillie > variation > a lot better. But they don't. > > > EP wrote > > fur... insulating against both cold and heat > > Critters so massive, with a high ratio of body mass to > surface > area, need to dump heat in warmer climates. However, > Mastodons > had fur, short fur, only and no insulating wool, while the > Woolly > Mammoth had both, as the name implies. However, the climate > was not hot; it's an Ice Age, remember. > > It is good to remember how much the world changes. One > encounters everywhere the universal notion that the > Amazonian > Rain Forest is ancient, primeval, some sort of Jungle Eden > from > the Dawn of Time. Pretentious bosh. > > And wrong. The Amazonian Rain Forest is a brand > spanking > new Post-Glacial development. 12-14,000 years ago, those > jungles > were not jungles. The Amazonian Rain Forest was the > Amazonian > Grassy Plains, like the Pampas, a Sea of Grass with > meandering > rivers (much smaller rivers than today) and scattered > clumps of > trees, perfect Elephant country (Mastodons are elephants; > the > Mammoths are not, quite different, though they don't > look it). > > > EP wrote: > > How? By starvation. Same thing that killed the horses > at the same > > time. Bison survived; they were hardy, and ate short > tundra like grass. > > Let's straighten this out. There's 25,000 years > of glaciation: > very cold. Then, it begins to warm up a few degrees for a > few > thousand years. Then comes the Younger Dryas, a thousand > years during which things cool off again, but not all the > way > back to glacial levels. Then, the warming resumes and the > Interglacial begins in earnest. The YD is a hiccup. > > That's the history. Now, the five species of horse > and ALL > the other critters on the list were happy as clams during > the > 25,000 years of glaciation. It warms for a few thousand > years, > then cools again, and the cold kills them? > > Gimme a break. > > Whatever grass could grow in glacial conditions was > enough > for the horses to thrive. Whatever grass could grow in > warmer > conditions, LIKE NOW, is enough for horses to thrive. Grass > is ubiquitous, and if its range shifts, well, horses travel > well, > you know. > > Then, there's Musk Ox, who can graze contentedly on > crap a > Bison wouldn't touch (and couldn't). The Musk Oxen > munch > on moss and lichens and such while all around them Bison > keel over like victims of anorexia. The Death of the Grass > wouldn't phase them at all. Why didn't the Musk Ox > survive? > > In deference to Mexico Doug's sensibilities, I will > not call the > climatic theory of extinction anything crude and > non-correct; > I will call it "grossly inadequate, not a product of > careful thought, > and a collection of archaic prejudices." > > > EP wrote: > > How? By starvation... > > You could argue that these species are all large, > require lots > of food and are vunerable to smaller shifts in climate than > little > omnivorous species like... Pack Rats! Small burrowing > rodents > are about the hardest critter in the universe to kill. Ever > tried? > Then, you know what I mean. > > So, it comes as a big surprise that the Pleistocene > Vole, the > ultimate omnivore and pack rat that thrived through the > worst of > the Ice Age and the warmest of Interglacials (warmer than > now) > for 800,000 years, suddenly and inexplicably went extinct > only > 9500 years ago! > http://berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2003/10/21_packrat.shtml > > Someone explain that, please... Hunted to extinction by > Clovis > Man, perhaps? > > > Sterling K. Webb > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "E.P. Grondine" > > To: > Sent: Friday, July 04, 2008 12:51 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Holocene start Extinction > Level Event > > > Hi Sterling - > > "Remind me again: how does a Comet in Canada kill a > furry > mastodon in South America? Both Mammoths and Mastodons > are unique Ice Age critters, elephants with fur coats! But > notice that while there are Mammoths in Canada and Alaska > and Siberia (Brrr!), the Mastodons preferred Kentucky, > Missouri, and Lu-Ezi-Anna, not mention South America. > So, how does ONE climate change kill off TWO genera > with such different climatic tastes?" > > First off, that's comet fragments, more than one, and > their dust. > > How? By starvation. Same thing that killed the horses at > the same time. > Bison survived; they were hardy, and ate short tundra like > grass. > > Mammoth and mastodon fur is suspected to be insulating > against both cold and > heat, like a camel's fur. > > The big mystery is the mammoth survival on the northern > islands. But then > birds are dinosaurs - I suppose it will be worked out in > time. > > It sure would be nice to get a date and impactor type for > the Ilturalde > Crater. > > E.P. Grondine > Man and Impact in the Americas > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From epgrondine at yahoo.com Sat Jul 5 12:20:49 2008 From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine) Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2008 09:20:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Holocene start impacts Message-ID: <838727.95363.qm@web36908.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi Sterling, all "Exactly how did this evidenceless Comet extinct 75% of the largest mammals? " I hope those of you here not interested in this will forgive me yet another message, one which should have been combined with the earlier one. Did I mention that I've had a major stroke? - please forgive me this additional message. Sterling, I always enjoy your comments from your encyclopedic knowledge, and your scepticism, and rigor, but speaking of science by press releases, but those cometary impacts are not "evidenceless". Aside from the cometary microspherule deposits, there's the C14 production hump at 10,900 BCE, which is what started Firestone off on his quest. Saying that it's "evidenceless" does not make it so. Why did your memory fail you? In my case its due to stroke from undiagnosed diabetes, and I'd like to remind everyone here to watch their diets and get their a1c's checked. Shifting to something more meteoritic, I'm hoping to get to those earlier posts and hear more on those recent irons from SE North America. Perhaps they'll throw some light on the "Hopewell" iron artifacts. good hunting all, E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas From entropydave at ntlworld.com Sat Jul 5 14:02:21 2008 From: entropydave at ntlworld.com (Dave Harris) Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2008 19:02:21 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Tagish Lake needs a new home...! Message-ID: <070C6881C9EC4A60A40636079B2D7807@pitstoppc> Hi, FYI - 0.3g TL for sale - see it at: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=270252690944 thanks for your patience! dave IMCA #0092 Sec.BIMS. www.bimsociety.org From meteoritekid at gmail.com Sat Jul 5 17:18:57 2008 From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas) Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2008 14:18:57 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] New Carancas article, same old crap In-Reply-To: <999704.75054.qm@web33105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <2072FBA36471498193A6301F74137E2D@ArmandoPC> <999704.75054.qm@web33105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <93aaac890807051418x3c1150fatb7a2402d0b6924d6@mail.gmail.com> Hola Michael, Armando, All, I found a nice website for calculating mass/energy/velocity: http://www.1728.com/energy.htm Using that, and the estimate from Peter Brown's (Univ. W. Ontario) study of the event, which stated that roughly .03 kton TNT energy was released, I was able to get the data for a "basketball-sized" stone of 20kg. In order to release that much energy, it would have had to have been moving at roughly 112.04 km/s. This is faster than the encounter velocity of even the fastest known moving bodies of any size within the solar system, as even comets only get up to speeds in the 50 km/s range with any frequency. To be perfectly frank, the lpl @ UofA states the following: "The minimum impact velocity on Earth is 11 km/s. Typical impact velocities are 17 km/s for asteroids and 51 km/s for comets. The maximum Earth impact velocity for objects orbiting the sun is 72 km/s." http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/impacteffects/ So, I reran some of the numbers and came out with the following: The minimum possible mass of the impactor was (using only this model, and disregarding all other studies and reports which suggest of a mass > 1 tonne) 48kg. Michael Farmer recovered and purchased in total < 3 kg, from what I understand. Therefore, even if you do blame Michael for taking that much, the Peruvian government left at least, given the total recovered weight (~13 kg), and the minimum possible weight using the simple KE = 1/2mv^2, roughly 35 kg of space rock in the crater. Or maybe they left several tonnes of it. Either way, you can stop this incessant nagging. You're wrong. Physics says so. Even if you don't trust me, you can work it out for yourself. ...Well, I hope you can. Best Regards, Jason I'll be out of reach for a day or so, but will reply in as prompt a manner as circumstances allow. On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 8:44 AM, Michael Farmer wrote: > "The mass was stolen by some American as usual" What a pathetic statement by you. To steal would be to take something that is not yours. I paid for every gram of meteorite from the people who owned it, the Aymara people who's land it fell on. And somehow I doubt that my 700 grams of meteorite comprised the mass. Either way, the amount I bought was reported to the scientists who did the work on the meteorite, so the fact that pieces were sold on ebay by Pervians, Bolivians, Americans, Germans etc, has no affect on the scientific study of the crater or meteorite. Why no hatred or mention of them Armando, or is it only Americans who steal, the Bolivans got theirs legally in your eyes right? Get over yourself Armando, you are clearly nothing more than a bitter anti-American, nothing more. Funny, Americans have had wars with Germany, Italy, and England, but never with Portugal, so where does this intense hatred come from? We all would like to know. I think it > comes from the fact that I beat you to the prize in your own country, of course you say I stole Ourique, even though I bought most of it. You also bought a large piece you told this list, did you somehow pay with different money which means your piece is not stolen? I still cant figure this one out. > Michael Farmer > > > --- On Fri, 7/4/08, Armando Afonso wrote: > >> From: Armando Afonso >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New Carancas article, same old crap >> To: "Michael Farmer" , meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> Date: Friday, July 4, 2008, 9:30 AM >> The size of a crater is related not only to the impactor?s >> mass, but to >> velocity, as everyone knows. >> If none of the variables could be measured (the mass was >> stollen by some >> american and sold in ebay, as usual :-) ), how can you have >> a better idea >> than others of the size of the meteoroid? >> >> Armando >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Michael Farmer" >> >> To: >> Sent: Friday, July 04, 2008 4:13 PM >> Subject: [meteorite-list] New Carancas article, same old >> crap >> >> >> > http://www.livinginperu.com/news-6826 >> > >> > Note the last part, they still think the Carancas >> meteorite was the size >> > of a basketball. When will we ever get these >> scientists and news people >> > off of that idiotic size comparison. I have seen it >> like 50 times for huge >> > fireballs and meteorite falls. They always say >> "it was the size of an >> > acorn or basketball" or some crap like that. The >> only way a basketball >> > sized object could make a crater like that would be if >> it had a little >> > nuclear bomb inside. >> > Happy 4th to all Americans on the list. >> > Michael Farmer >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > ______________________________________________ >> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> > Meteorite-list mailing list >> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> > >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > >> > >> > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From meteoritefinder at gmail.com Sat Jul 5 18:50:06 2008 From: meteoritefinder at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2008 14:50:06 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] Sale-ad- Very Special Canyon Diablo Message-ID: <468bf6050807051550l19fd0e88v762fc3d9c81f1ec5@mail.gmail.com> Hi all I am raising some extra money by putting up a very special Canyon Diablo from my personal collection. It is the 4020 gram piece in my collection, it has been cleaned but is a very nice piece and I would say a top 10% as far as character. The price is $2500 but for those looking for a deal I will accept the highest bid over $2000 or the first $2500 takes it. I will pick the highest offer tomorrow about this time of the day. Here is a link. http://www.meteoritefinder.com/collection/cd-4020.htm -- Mike Miller 230 Greenway Dr. Kingman Az 86401 www.meteoritefinder.com 928-753-6825 From cynapse at charter.net Sat Jul 5 23:15:17 2008 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2008 23:15:17 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] How Ancient is Lore? In-Reply-To: <455048.3697.qm@web33101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <455048.3697.qm@web33101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6vd0745dmv8bfm1ica69is2econ87tklqh@4ax.com> I'll avoid making uber-geeky STTNG comments and skip straight to the article found-- suprisingly enough-- while browsing through the archives of Asian Ethnology magazine. http://www.nanzan-u.ac.jp/SHUBUNKEN/publications/afs/pdf/a1603.pdf For the curious, the rest of the archives: http://www.nanzan-u.ac.jp/SHUBUNKEN/publications/afs/afs_cumulative_list.htm From epgrondine at yahoo.com Sat Jul 5 23:21:54 2008 From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine) Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2008 20:21:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Tunguska Message-ID: <612663.69377.qm@web36902.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi Sterling, all - Since you have an answer immediately at hand: "Here's the "tree particle" resin-trapped cosmic dust argument, for what it's worth: http://www-th.bo.infn.it/tunguska/papers/pss2.html" why muddy the waters, except for entertainment purposes? The embedded particles have been further analyzed, shown to be cometary, and the path has been traced, of what appears to be one of the final chunks of Comet Encke to hit. Of course, after reading David Brin's "Earth", one would hold out hope for a mini-black hole sent by aliens. But then that work is science fiction. And one could always hope that those aliens will send a nice pallasite plumping into their backyard, but its probably better to have cash in hand. E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Sat Jul 5 23:53:05 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2008 20:53:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Dawn Journal - June 26, 2008 Message-ID: <200807060353.UAA01563@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://dawn.jpl.nasa.gov/mission/journal_6_26_08.asp Dawn Journal Dr. Marc Rayman June 26, 2008 Dear Dawnlettantes, Now using an ion thruster that had been powered off since October, Dawn continues to make steady progress on its journey deeper into space. In this phase of the mission, each day of thrusting changes the probe's speed by 6.7 meters/second (15 miles/hour). Dawn will operate its ion thrusters for a total of more than 5 years, providing the extraordinary boost required to orbit both main belt asteroid Vesta and dwarf planet Ceres in the quest to understand the dawn of the solar system. Some readers may be reminded of the prophetic sagacity of Tardigrade the Celeritous, who, with uncanny prescience (and, at the time, abstruseness), is believed to have said that the journey of 11 kilometers/second (25,000 miles/hour) begins with a single day of thrusting. The spacecraft is outfitted with 3 ion thrusters but will never use more than 1 at a time. In October and November, during the initial checkout phase of the mission, all 3 thrusters were tested and confirmed to be healthy and ready for operation. Following the flight plan, thruster #3 was the first to propel the craft in its interplanetary cruise phase, which began on December 17. In the 184 days from the beginning of interplanetary cruise until ion thruster #1 took over, thruster #3 operated for a total of 147 days, flawlessly changing Dawn's orbit around the Sun. Each week the thrust was turned off for a few hours when the spacecraft turned to point its main antenna to Earth, and a few days every month or so have been devoted to other, non-thrusting activities. (Readers are encouraged to review the logs posted since December to remind themselves of such activities. That might yield an unexpected reward, as it may now be revealed that the text of those logs contains a highly encrypted message with information of astonishing import. If you find it, please let this writer know, as he has absolutely no idea what it is!) The effect of thruster #3's operation during this mission phase was to change the spacecraft's speed by about 0.96 kilometers/second (2150 miles/hour). Thanks to the exceptionally high efficiency of the ion propulsion system, Dawn's solar system xenon footprint in accomplishing this was only 39 kg (86 pounds). (Note also that its carbon footprint was 0.) Switching from one thruster to another is simple (to the extent that anything is simple for early 21st century humans controlling a spacecraft in deep space). The potential complication in this case was explained in the previous log. Our readers survey (conducted by Telepathic Business Services, Inc. when their employees had time between major poker competitions) shows that 3 readers do not fully recall the details and will not refer to that log, so the issue is summarized here. The 3 ion thrusters point in different directions on the spacecraft. To provide thrust in the correct direction in space, Dawn has to rotate to aim the designated thruster in that direction. The use of thruster #1 now requires the craft to assume an orientation quite different from any that had been experienced before, and engineers were not confident certain components would remain within their required temperature limits when the Sun shone on them. Last month's test, in which the spacecraft spent a few hours pointing in the required direction, provided some of the data needed to establish when it would be safe to commit to the use of thruster #1 for long periods of time. The results agreed with previous analyses, which had shown that all the components would remain in their prescribed temperature ranges if thruster #1 were put to use this month. Probably. Probably? That "probably" was not good enough. Ever-cautious mission controllers were not sufficiently confident to let the spacecraft remain in the new orientation for a week at a time, because there were a few components whose temperatures still could not be predicted well enough. The analyses were conclusive that the temperatures would be safe for more than 24 hours, as it takes a long time for that hardware to heat up. Therefore, the team devised a new approach. A typical set of commands for 5 weeks of operation with thruster #1 was formulated. In addition, engineers prepared instructions for storage onboard to stop thruster #1, rotate to the thruster #3 orientation, resume thrusting, and perform all the other associated functions, the description of which is precluded by laws on profoundly incomprehensible prose. (While such laws are applicable only in the vicinity of supermassive stars, we obey them out of consideration for such regions of our distribution.) The instructions were structured so that only a single, brief message from Earth would be needed to trigger the switch back to thruster #3. On June 18, the spacecraft turned from pointing its antenna to Earth to aim thruster #1 in the correct direction and initiated thrusting. A Deep Space Network antenna that was available was scheduled to listen in to the spacecraft on June 19. Dawn was programmed to use one of its small antennas, with a very broad radio beam, to transmit temperature measurements. Dawn's terrestrial team members receiving the data found the results to be much as expected. As predicted, the temperatures had not yet stabilized, and all were within the desired ranges. When they had about two hours of measurements in hand, engineers were able to predict with high confidence what the final temperatures would be. This confirmed that continued operation was safe, so there was no need to switch back to thruster #3. (Providing the spacecraft with the capability to make that decision, while that might seem pretty neat, would have required more work than the neatness would have merited.) As some may recall from long, long ago (to be specific, 8 paragraphs ago), several days of coasting are included in the flight plan occasionally. Activities for some of those times are planned long in advance. Other such periods are held in reserve in case mission controllers identify the need for some previously unplanned work that could not be accommodated in the normal schedule. June 16 - 18 was one such interval. The mission has been going so smoothly, however, that no special activities were required then. The team did take advantage of the extra time that the primary antenna was pointed to Earth to clean up some file buffers and perform other maintenance on some of the spacecraft's computers. With the mission continuing so well, the Dawn team can devote much of its attention to preparing for future events. Although the Dawn project has no specific plans, readers may rest assured that the team members, as with their fellow residents of Earth, are completing personal plans to commemorate the centennial of the Tunguska event on June 29 (the event occurred on June 30 in Siberia's time zone). The next item of interest occurs on June 30, when the spacecraft exceeds the outermost reaches of the orbit of Mars; the probe will be farther from the Sun than that planet ever travels. Earth reaches its greatest distance from the Sun on July 4, when it will be almost 1.7% farther than its average distance. (On January 2, it was about 1.7% closer than average.) Then even as Earth begins a slow fall toward the Sun (a trend that will continue until next January), Dawn will continue its climb outward. On July 10, the robotic explorer will be twice as far from Earth as Earth will be from the Sun. At that time it will be 304 million kilometers (189 million miles) from the planet it left on a lovely dawn in September 2007. At these extraordinary distances, humankind (and even some of our other readers) does not have the technology to see the spacecraft. Indeed, Dawn is barely discernible in a pair of portraits taken when it was more than 300 times closer to Earth. Yet some who follow the mission might enjoy gazing in the direction of the probe as they contemplate its journey deeper into space and the ambitious and exciting mission that lies ahead. For those in the continental United States, the spacecraft will be between 3? and 5? northeast of the moon in the evening of July 6 as the moon is approaching the western horizon. (In other words, Dawn will appear to be 6 to 10 times the moon's diameter away, north and higher in the sky.) Although quite invisible to your eyes, in that direction your mind may be able to see with great clarity one of your planet's envoys to the cosmos. With a blue-green trail of xenon ions behind it and appointments with distant, uncharted, alien worlds ahead of it, Dawn will be silently and contentedly carrying out its mission to extend our reach into space and to help fulfill our passionate search for knowledge and our yearning for adventure. Dawn is 286 million kilometers (178 million miles) from Earth, or more than 760 times as far as the moon and 1.88 times as far as the Sun. Radio signals, traveling at the universal limit of the speed of light, take 32 minutes to make the round trip. From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Sat Jul 5 23:55:36 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2008 20:55:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Phoenix Scrapes 'Almost Perfect' Icy Soil for Analysis Message-ID: <200807060355.UAA02789@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/phoenix/release.php?ArticleID=1771 Phoenix Scrapes 'Almost Perfect' Icy Soil for Analysis Jet Propulsion Laboratory July 01, 2008 NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander enlarged the "Snow White" trench and scraped up little piles of icy soil on Saturday, June 28, the 33rd Martian day, or sol, of the mission. Scientists say that the scrapings are ideal for the lander's analytical instruments. The robotic arm on Phoenix used the blade on its scoop to make 50 scrapes in the icy layer buried under subsurface soil. The robotic arm then heaped the scrapings into a few 10- to 20-cubic centimeter piles, or piles each containing between two and four teaspoonfuls. Scraping created a grid about two millimeters deep. The scientists saw the scrapings in Surface Stereo Imager images on Sunday, June 29, agreed they had "almost perfect samples of the interface of ice and soil," and commanded the robotic arm to pick up some scrapings for instrument analysis. The scoop will sprinkle the fairly fine-grained material first onto the Thermal and Evolved-Gas Analyzer (TEGA). The instrument has tiny ovens to bake and sniff the soil to assess its volatile ingredients, such as water. It can determine the melting point of ice. Phoenix's overall goals are to: dig to water frozen under subsurface soil, touch, examine, vaporize and sniff the soil and ice to discover the history of water on Mars, determine if the Martian arctic soil could support life, and study Martian weather from a polar perspective. The Phoenix mission is led by Peter Smith of the University of Arizona with project management at JPL and development partnership at Lockheed Martin, located in Denver. International contributions come from the Canadian Space Agency; the University of Neuchatel, Switzerland; the universities of Copenhagen and Aarhus, Denmark; Max Planck Institute, Germany; and the Finnish Meteorological Institute. More about the Phoenix Mars Lander is online at http://www.nasa.gov/phoenix and http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu. Media contacts: Guy Webster 818-354-6278 Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. guy.webster at jpl.nasa.gov Dwayne Brown 202-358-1726 NASA Headquarters, Washington dwayne.c.brown at nasa.gov Sara Hammond 520-626-1974 University of Arizona, Tucson shammond at lpl.arizona.edu From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Sun Jul 6 00:01:22 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2008 21:01:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Asteroid-Hunting Satellite A World First (NEOSSat) Message-ID: <200807060401.VAA03745@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> Media Relations University of Calgary Calgary, Canada Media contacts: Grady Semmens Senior Communications Manager - Research University of Calgary Phone: (403) 220-7722 Alex Myers Media Relations Canadian Space Agency Phone: (450) 926-6651 Jean Beaudin Communications and Information Mangement Defence Research and Development Canada Phone: (613) 991-4153 June 26, 2008 Asteroid-hunting satellite a world first Canada's NEOSSat space telescope to discover near-Earth objects and track high-altitude satellites Canada is building the world's first space telescope designed to detect and track asteroids as well as satellites. Called NEOSSat (Near Earth Object Surveillance Satellite), this spacecraft will provide a significant improvement in surveillance of asteroids that pose a collision hazard with Earth and innovative technologies for tracking satellites in orbit high above our planet. Weighing in at a mere 65-kilograms, this dual-use $12-million mission builds upon Canada's expertise in compact "microsatellite" design. NEOSSat will be the size of a large suitcase, and is cost-effective because of its small size and ability to "piggyback" on the launch of other spacecraft. The mission is funded by Defence Research Development Canada (DRDC) and the Canadian Space Agency (CSA). Together CSA and DRDC formed a Joint Project Office to manage the NEOSSat design, construction and launch phases. NEOSSat is expected to be launched into space in 2010. The two projects that will use NEOSSat are HEOSS (High Earth Orbit Space Surveillance) and the NESS (Near Earth Space Surveillance) asteroid search program. "Canada continues to innovate and demonstrate its technological expertise by developing small satellites that can peer into near and far space for natural and man-made debris," said Guy Bujold, President, Canadian Space Agency. "We are on the cutting edge, building the world's first space-based telescope designed to search for near-Earth asteroids." NEOSSat is the first follow up mission to the groundbreaking MOST (Microvariability and Oscillation of STars) spacecraft, a 60-kilogram satellite designed to measure the age of stars in our galaxy. NEOSSat also marks the first project using Canada's Multi-Mission Microsatellite Bus. CSA's Space Technology branch launched the Multi-Mission Bus project to capitalize on technology developed for the MOST project by making it adaptable to future satellite missions. Captain Tony Morris of DRDC Ottawa, and Deputy Program Manager of the NEOSSat Joint Project Office, says, "NEOSSat is a technological pathfinder for us to demonstrate the potential of microsatellite technologies to satisfy operational requirements of the Canadian Forces. NEOSSat will demonstrate the ability of a microsatellite to enhance the CF's contribution to the NORAD mission -- providing accurate knowledge of the traffic orbiting our planet. This would contribute to the safety of critical Canadian assets, military and civilian, in an increasingly congested space environment." Dr. Brad Wallace leads the science team at DRDC for HEOSS, which will use NEOSSat for traffic control of Earth's high orbit satellites. Dr. Wallace says, "We have already done satellite tracking tests using MOST, so we know that a microsatellite can track satellites. The challenge now is to demonstrate that it can be done efficiently, reliably, and to the standards required to maximize the safety of the spacecraft that everyone uses daily, like weather and communication satellites." The HEOSS project will demonstrate how a microsatellite could contribute to the Space Surveillance Network (SSN), a network of ground based telescopes and radars located around the world. Until the 1980s, Canada contributed to the SSN with two ground-based telescopes in eastern and western Canada. The fact that HEOSS will be a space-based capability on a microsatellite represents an exciting enhancement to the contribution and offers significant advantages to the SSN. Ground-based sensors' tracking opportunities are constrained by their geographic location and the day-night cycle. In Sun-synchronous orbit around our planet, NEOSSat will offer continuous tracking opportunities and the ability to track satellites in a wide variety of orbit locations. "NEOSSat requires remarkable agility and pointing stability that has never before been achieved by a microsatellite," says David Cooper, General Manager of Mississauga-based Dynacon Inc., the prime contractor for the NEOSSat spacecraft and the manufacturer and operator of the MOST satellite. "It must rapidly spin to point at new locations hundreds of times per day, each time screeching to a halt to hold rock steady on a distant target, or precisely track a satellite along its orbit, and image-on-the-run." Cooper says. "Dynacon is the world leader in this microsatellite attitude-control-system technology." Dr. Alan Hildebrand, holder of a Canada Research Chair in Planetary Science in the University of Calgary's Department of Geoscience, leads an international science team for the NESS asteroid search project and is excited by its prospects. "NEOSSat being on-orbit will give us terrific skies for observing 24-hours a day, guaranteed," Hildebrand says. "Keeping up with the amount of data streaming back to us will be a challenge, but it will provide us with an unprecedented view of space encompassing Earth's orbit." Although NEOSSat's 15-centimetre telescope is smaller than most amateur astronomers', its location approximately 700 kilometres above Earth's atmosphere will give it a huge advantage in searching the blackness of space for faint signs of moving asteroids. Twisting and turning hundreds of times each day, orbiting from pole to pole every 50 minutes, and generating power from the Sun, NEOSSat will send dozens of images to the ground each time it passes over Canada. Due to the ultra-low sky background provided by the vacuum of space, NEOSSat will be able to detect asteroids delivering as few as 50 photons of light in a 100-second exposure. Hildebrand, who oversees the U of C's ground-based asteroid observation program using the Rothney Astrophysical Observatory's wide-field Baker Nunn telescope, said NEOSSat will greatly enhance the study of asteroids and comets as they approach Earth. "NEOSSat will discover many asteroids much faster than can be done from the ground alone. Its most exciting result, however, will probably be discovering new targets for exploration by both manned and unmanned space missions," he observes. "By looking along Earth's orbit, NEOSSat will find 'low and slow' asteroids before they pass by our planet and sprint missions could be launched to explore them when they are in the vicinity of the Earth." The public can follow the NEOSSat mission and individuals can express support and enthusiasm for asteroid-searching by having their name launched into space aboard the spacecraft by visiting the mission's website www.neossat.ca . [NOTE: A Mission Backgrounder is available at http://www.neossat.ca/neossat-mission-background.html ] From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Sun Jul 6 00:24:05 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2008 21:24:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] MRO HiRISE Images - July 2, 2008 Message-ID: <200807060424.VAA06555@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> MARS RECONNAISSANCE ORBITER HIRISE IMAGES July 2, 2008 o Mystery Mounds in Southern Acidalia Planitia http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_008548_2205 o Subchannels in Kasei Valles http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_008523_2060 o TARs and Unusual Star Ripples http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_008323_1735 o Lineated Valley Fill in Coloe Fossae http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_008598_2155 All of the HiRISE images are archived here: http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ Information about the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter is online at http://www.nasa.gov/mro. The mission is managed by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, a division of the California Institute of Technology, for the NASA Science Mission Directorate, Washington, D.C. Lockheed Martin Space Systems, of Denver, is the prime contractor and built the spacecraft. HiRISE is operated by the University of Arizona. Ball Aerospace and Technologies Corp., of Boulder, Colo., built the HiRISE instrument. From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Sun Jul 6 00:26:06 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2008 21:26:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars Odyssey THEMIS Images: June 30 - July 4, 2008 Message-ID: <200807060426.VAA07571@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> MARS ODYSSEY THEMIS IMAGES June 30 - July 4, 2008 o Texture (Released 30 June 2008) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20080630a o Texture (Released 01 July 2008) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20080701a o Hecates Channels (Released 02 July 2008) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20080702a o Channel (Released 03 July 2008) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20080703a o Linear Ridges (Released 04 July 2008) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20080704a All of the THEMIS images are archived here: http://themis.asu.edu/latest.html NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory manages the 2001 Mars Odyssey mission for NASA's Office of Space Science, Washington, D.C. The Thermal Emission Imaging System (THEMIS) was developed by Arizona State University, Tempe, in co.oration with Raytheon Santa Barbara Remote Sensing. The THEMIS investigation is led by Dr. Philip Christensen at Arizona State University. Lockheed Martin Astronautics, Denver, is the prime contractor for the Odyssey project, and developed and built the orbiter. Mission operations are conducted jointly from Lockheed Martin and from JPL, a division of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena. From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Sun Jul 6 00:35:51 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2008 21:35:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Phoenix to Bake Ice-Rich Sample Next Week Message-ID: <200807060435.VAA10385@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2008-125 Phoenix to Bake Ice-Rich Sample Next Week Jet Propulsion Laboratory July 02, 2008 The next sample delivered to NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander's Thermal and Evolved-Gas Analyzer (TEGA) will be ice-rich. A team of engineers and scientists assembled to assess TEGA after a short circuit was discovered in the instrument has concluded that another short circuit could occur when the oven is used again. "Since there is no way to assess the probability of another short circuit occurring, we are taking the most conservative approach and treating the next sample to TEGA as possibly our last," said Peter Smith, Phoenix's principal investigator. A sample taken from the trench informally named "Snow White" that was in Phoenix's robotic arm's scoop earlier this week likely has dried out, so the soil particles are to be delivered to the lander's optical microscope on Thursday, and if material remains in the scoop, the rest will be deposited in the Wet Chemistry Laboratory, possibly early on Sunday. The mission teams will mark the Independence Day holiday with a planned "stand down" from Thursday morning, July 3, to Saturday evening, July 5. A skeleton crew at the University of Arizona in Tucson, at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif., and Lockheed Martin Space Systems in Denver, Colo., will continue to monitor the spacecraft and its instruments over the holiday period. "The stand down is a chance for our team to rest, but Phoenix won't get a holiday," Smith said. The spacecraft will be operating from pre-programmed science commands, taking atmospheric readings and panoramas and other images. Once the sample is delivered to the chemistry experiment, Smith said the highest priority will be obtaining the ice-rich sample and delivering it to TEGA's oven number zero. In a few days, the Phoenix team will conduct tests so the instruments can deliver the icy sample quickly, so no materials sublimate, or change from a solid to a vapor, during the delivery process. The short circuit was believed to have been caused when TEGA's oven number four was vibrated repeatedly over the course of several days to break up clumpy soil delivered to oven number 4. Delivery to any TEGA oven involves a vibration action, and turning on the vibrator in any oven will cause oven number 4 to vibrate as well. The Phoenix mission is led by Peter Smith of the University of Arizona with project management at JPL and development partnership at Lockheed Martin, located in Denver. International contributions come from the Canadian Space Agency; the University of Neuchatel, Switzerland; the universities of Copenhagen and Aarhus, Denmark; Max Planck Institute, Germany; and the Finnish Meteorological Institute. More about the Phoenix Mars Lander is online at http://www.nasa.gov/phoenix and http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Media contacts: Guy Webster 818-354-6278 Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. guy.webster at jpl.nasa.gov Dwayne Brown 202-358-1726 NASA Headquarters, Washington dwayne.c.brown at nasa.gov Sara Hammond 520-626-1974 University of Arizona, Tucson shammond at lpl.arizona.edu 2008-125 From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Sun Jul 6 00:38:43 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2008 21:38:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Exploding Asteroid Theory Strengthened by New Evidence Located in Ohio, Indiana Message-ID: <200807060438.VAA11243@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> Office of Public Relations University of Cincinnati Cincinnati, Ohio Contact: Carey Hoffman Phone: (513) 556-1825 7/2/2008 Exploding Asteroid Theory Strengthened by New Evidence Located in Ohio, Indiana Was the course of life on the planet altered 12,900 years ago by a giant comet exploding over Canada? New evidence found by UC Assistant Professor of Anthropology Ken Tankersley and colleagues suggests the answer is affirmative. By Carey Hoffman Geological evidence found in Ohio and Indiana in recent weeks is strengthening the case to attribute what happened 12,900 years ago in North America -- when the end of the last Ice Age unexpectedly turned into a phase of extinction for animals and humans -- to a cataclysmic comet or asteroid explosion over top of Canada. A comet/asteroid theory advanced by Arizona-based geophysicist Allen West in the past two years says that an object from space exploded just above the earth's surface at that time over modern-day Canada, sparking a massive shock wave and heat-generating event that set large parts of the northern hemisphere ablaze, setting the stage for the extinctions. Now University of Cincinnati Assistant Professor of Anthropology Ken Tankersley, working in conjunction with Allen West and Indiana Geological Society Research Scientist Nelson R. Schaffer, has verified evidence from sites in Ohio and Indiana -- including, locally, Hamilton and Clermont counties in Ohio and Brown County in Indiana -- that offers the strongest support yet for the exploding comet/asteroid theory. Samples of diamonds, gold and silver that have been found in the region have been conclusively sourced through X-ray diffractometry in the lab of UC Professor of Geology Warren Huff back to the diamond fields region of Canada. The only plausible scenario available now for explaining their presence this far south is the kind of cataclysmic explosive event described by West's theory. "We believe this is the strongest evidence yet indicating a comet impact in that time period," says Tankersley. Ironically, Tankersley had gone into the field with West believing he might be able to disprove West's theory. Tankersley was familiar through years of work in this area with the diamonds, gold and silver deposits, which at one point could be found in such abundance in this region that the Hopewell Indians who lived here about 2,000 years ago engaged in trade in these items. Prevailing thought said that these deposits, which are found at a soil depth consistent with the time frame of the comet/asteroid event, had been brought south from the Great Lakes region by glaciers. "My smoking gun to disprove (West) was going to be the gold, silver and diamonds," Tankersley says. "But what I didn't know at that point was a conclusion he had reached that he had not yet made public -- that the likely point of impact for the comet wasn't just anywhere over Canada, but located over Canada's diamond-bearing fields. Instead of becoming the basis for rejecting his hypothesis, these items became the very best evidence to support it." Additional sourcing work is being done at the sites looking for iridium, micro-meteorites and nano-diamonds that bear the markers of the diamond-field region, which also should have been blasted by the impact into this region. Much of the work is being done in Sheriden Cave in north-central Ohio's Wyandot County, a rich repository of material dating back to the Ice Age. Tankersley first came into contact with West and Schaffer when they were invited guests for interdisciplinary colloquia presented by UC's Department of Geology this spring. West presented on his theory that a large comet or asteroid, believed to be more than a mile in diameter, exploded just above the earth at a time when the last Ice Age appeared to be drawing to a close. The timing attached to this theory of about 12,900 years ago is consistent with the known disappearances in North America of the wooly mammoth population and the first distinct human society to inhabit the continent, known as the Clovis civilization. At that time, climatic history suggests the Ice Age should have been drawing to a close, but a rapid change known as the Younger Dryas event, instead ushered in another 1,300 years of glacial conditions. A cataclysmic explosion consistent with West's theory would have the potential to create the kind of atmospheric turmoil necessary to produce such conditions. "The kind of evidence we are finding does suggest that climate change at the end of the last Ice Age was the result of a catastrophic event," Tankersley says. Currently, Tankersley can be seen in a new documentary airing on the National Geographic channel. The film "Asteroids" is part of that network's "Naked Science" series. The new discoveries made working with West and Schaffer will be incorporated into two more specials that Tankersley is currently involved with -- one for the PBS series "Nova" and a second for the History Channel that will be filming Tankersley and his UC students in the field this summer. Another documentary, this one being produced by the Discovery Channel and the British public television network Channel 4, will also be following Tankersley and his students later this summer. As more data continues to be compiled, Tankersley, West and Schaffer will be publishing about this newest twist in the search to explain the history of our planet and its climate. Climate change is a favorite topic for Tankersley. "The ultimate importance of this kind of work is showing that we can't control everything," he says. "Our planet has been hit by asteroids many times throughout its history, and when that happens, it does produce climate change." From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Sun Jul 6 00:41:54 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2008 21:41:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Martian Air Once Had Moisture, New Soil Analysis Says Message-ID: <200807060441.VAA12087@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> Media Relations University of California-Berkeley Media Contacts: Sarah Yang, (510) 643-7741 25 June 2008 Martian air once had moisture, new soil analysis says By Sarah Yang, Media Relations BERKELEY -- A new analysis of Martian soil data led by University of California, Berkeley, geoscientists suggests that there was once enough water in the planet's atmosphere for a light drizzle or dew to hit the ground, leaving tell-tale signs of its interaction with the planet's surface. The study's conclusion breaks from the more dominant view that the liquid water that once existed during the red planet's infancy came mainly in the form of upwelling groundwater rather than rain. To come up with their conclusions, the UC Berkeley-led researchers used published measurements of soil from Mars that were taken by various NASA missions: Viking 1, Viking 2, Pathfinder, Spirit and Opportunity. These five missions provided information on soil from widely distant sites surveyed between 1976 and 2006. "By analyzing the chemistry of the planet's soil, we can derive important information about Mars' climate history," said Ronald Amundson, UC Berkeley professor of ecosystem sciences and the study's lead author. "The dominant view, put forward by many now working on the Mars missions, is that the chemistry of Mars soils is a mix of dust and rock that has accumulated over the eons, combined with impacts of upwelling groundwater, which is almost the exact opposite of any common process that forms soil on Earth. In this paper, we try to steer the discussion back by re-evaluating the Mars data using geological and hydrological principles that exist on Earth." The final version of the study will appear online in Geochimica et Cosmochimica Acta, the journal of the International Geochemical Society, by the end of June, and in a print issue in August. Martian soil has made headlines in recent weeks as NASA's Phoenix lander began sampling soil from the planet's north pole and analyzing its chemical elements. The goal of the tests is to determine whether Mars was once capable of supporting life, an idea that got a boost on Friday (June 20) when Phoenix scientists announced the discovery of ice underneath the Martian soil. While the UC Berkeley-led study does not delve directly into evidence of life on Mars, it does suggest what kind of climate that life, if it existed, might have encountered. The planet is currently too cold for water to exist in a liquid state, but scientists generally agree that during the planet's earliest geological period, known as the Noachian epoch and dating 4.6 billion to 3.5 billion years ago, there were enough atmospheric greenhouse gases to warm the air and support lakes and flowing rivers. But unlike Earth, Mars does not have plate tectonics to help generate volcanoes and other terrestrial sources of greenhouse gases to sustain heat, explained Amundson. He said that many scientists believe that by the time the planet moved from the Noachian epoch to the Hesperian epoch, dating from 3.5 billion to 1.8 billion years ago, water on Mars had either frozen or evaporated. (The planet is now in its third geological time period, the Amazonian epoch, which started about 1.8 billion years ago.) The new study, however, suggests that liquid water existed in the Martian atmosphere into the Hesperian era. To support this view, the team showed that soil at the Viking, Pathfinder and Spirit landing sites had lost significant fractions of the elements that make up the rock fragments from which the soil was formed, a sign that water once moved downward through the dirt, carrying the elements with it. Amundson also pointed out that the soil records a long period of drying, as evidenced by surface patterns of the now sulfate-rich land. The distinctive accumulations of sulfate deposits are characteristic of soil in northern Chile's Atacama Desert, where rainfall averages approximately 1 millimeter per year, making it the driest region on Earth. "The Atacama Desert and the dry valleys of Antarctica are where Earth meets Mars," said Amundson. "I would argue that Mars has more in common geochemically with these climate extremes on Earth than these sites have in common with the rest of our planet." Amundson noted that sulfate is prevalent in Earth's oceans and atmosphere, and is incorporated in rainwater. However, it's so soluble that it typically washes away from the surface of the ground when it rains. The key for the distinctive accumulation in soil to appear is for there to be enough moisture to move it downward, but not so much that it is washed away entirely. The researchers also noted that the distribution of the chemical elements in Martian soil, where sulfates accumulate on the surface with layers of chloride salt underneath, suggest atmospheric moisture. "Sulfates tend to be less soluble in water than chlorides, so if water is moving up through evaporation, we would expect to find chlorides at the surface and sulfates below that," said Amundson. "But when water is moving downward, there's a complete reversal of that where the chlorides move downward and sulfates stay closer to the surface. There have been weak but long-term atmospheric cycles that not only add dust and salt but periodic liquid water to the soil surface that move the salts downward." Amundson pointed out that there is still debate among scientists about the degree to which atmospheric and geological conditions on Earth can be used as analogs for the environment on Mars. He said the new study suggests that Martian soil may be a "museum" that records chemical information about the history of water on the planet, and that our own planet holds the key to interpreting the record. "It seems very logical that a dry, arid planet like Mars with the same bedrock geology as many places on Earth would have some of the same hydrological and geological processes operating that occur in our deserts here on Earth," said Amundson. "Our study suggests that Mars isn't a planet where things have behaved radically different from Earth, and that we should look to regions like the Atacama Desert for further insight into Martian climate history." The study co-authors are Stephanie Ewing, Mendhall Fellow at the U.S. Geological Survey; William Dietrich, UC Berkeley professor of geomorphology; Brad Sutter, research scientist at NASA's Johnson Space Center; Justine Owen, UC Berkeley graduate student of ecosystem sciences; Oliver Chadwick, professor of geography at UC Santa Barbara; Kunihiko Nishiizumi, Senior Space Fellow at UC Berkeley's Space Sciences Laboratory; Michelle Walvoord, research hydrologist at the U.S. Geological Survey; and Christopher McKay, planetary scientist at the NASA Ames Research Center. NASA, the National Science Foundation and the UC Agricultural Experiment Station helped support this research. IMAGE CAPTIONS: [IMAGE 1: http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/download/2008/06/Mars-Opportunity.jpg (6MB)] Cracks caused by the contraction of sulfate are evident in this image of the surface of Mars' Meridiani Planum site by NASA's Opportunity Rover. Credit: NASA [IMAGE 2: http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/download/2008/06/Mars-Atacama.jpg (440KB] In this photo taken at the Atacama Desert in Chile, the ground has similar sulfate cracks to those seen on the surface of Mars. The researcher in the foreground is William Dietrich, UC Berkeley professor of geomorphology. Credit: Ronald Amundson/UC Berkeley From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Sun Jul 6 00:48:35 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2008 21:48:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA Reveals New Discoveries From Mercury (MESSENGER) Message-ID: <200807060448.VAA12979@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> July 3, 2008 J.D. Harrington Headquarters, Washington 202-358-5241 j.d.harrington at nasa.gov Mike Buckley Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory, Laurel, Md. 240-228-7536 mike.buckley at jhuapl.edu RELEASE: 08-166 NASA REVEALS NEW DISCOVERIES FROM MERCURY GREENBELT, Md. -- Scientists have argued about the origins of Mercury's smooth plains and the source of its magnetic field for more than 30 years. Now, analyses of data from the January 2008 flyby of the planet by the Mercury Surface, Space Environment, Geochemistry and Ranging (MESSENGER) spacecraft have shown that volcanoes were involved in plains formation and suggest that its magnetic field is actively produced in the planet's core. Scientists additionally took their first look at the chemical composition of the planet's surface. The tiny craft probed the composition of Mercury's thin atmosphere, sampled charged particles (ions) near the planet, and demonstrated new links between both sets of observations and materials on Mercury's surface. The results are reported in a series of 11 papers published in a special section of Science magazine July 4. The controversy over the origin of Mercury's smooth plains began with the 1972 Apollo 16 moon mission, which suggested that some lunar plains came from material that was ejected by large impacts and then formed smooth "ponds." When Mariner 10 imaged similar formations on Mercury in 1975, some scientists believed that the same processes were at work. Others thought Mercury's plains material came from erupted lavas, but the absence of volcanic vents or other volcanic features in images from that mission prevented a consensus. Six of the papers in Science report on analyses of the planet's surface through its reflectance and color variation, surface chemistry, high-resolution imaging at different wavelengths, and altitude measurements. The researchers found evidence of volcanic vents along the margins of the Caloris basin, one of the solar system's youngest impact basins. They also found that Caloris has a much more complicated geologic history than previously believed. The first altitude measurements from any spacecraft at Mercury also found that craters on the planet are about a factor of two shallower than those on Earth's moon. The measurements also show a complex geologic history for Mercury. Mercury's core makes up at least 60 percent of its mass, a figure twice as large as any other known terrestrial planet. The flyby revealed that the magnetic field, originating in the outer core and powered by core cooling, drives very dynamic and complex interactions among the planet's interior, surface, exosphere and magnetosphere. Remarking on the importance of the core to surface geological structures, Principal Investigator Sean Solomon at the Carnegie Institution of Washington said, "The dominant tectonic landforms on Mercury, including areas imaged for the first time by MESSENGER, are features called lobate scarps, huge cliffs that mark the tops of crustal faults that formed during the contraction of the surrounding area. They tell us how important the cooling core has been to the evolution of the surface. After the end of the period of heavy bombardment, cooling of the planet's core not only fueled the magnetic dynamo, it also led to contraction of the entire planet. And the data from the flyby indicate that the total contraction is a least one-third greater than we previously thought." The flyby also made the first-ever observations of the ionized particles in Mercury's unique exosphere. The exosphere is an ultrathin atmosphere in which the molecules are so far apart they are more likely to collide with the surface than with each other. The planet's highly elliptical orbit, its slow rotation and particle interactions with the magnetosphere, interplanetary medium and solar wind result in strong seasonal and day-night differences in the way particles behave. For more information, visit: http://www.nasa.gov/messenger or http://messenger.jhuapl.edu/mer_flyby1.html -end- From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Sun Jul 6 01:00:25 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2008 22:00:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Rosetta Awakens from Hibernation for Asteroid Encounter (2867 Steins) Message-ID: <200807060500.WAA14851@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://www.esa.int/SPECIALS/Rosetta/SEMQPDSHKHF_0.html Rosetta awakes from hibernation for asteroid encounter European Space Agency 3 July 2008 Spacecraft controllers have just awoken Rosetta from hibernation to prepare for its encounter with asteroid (2867) Steins on 5 September. ESA's comet chaser will study the relatively rare asteroid as it flies by on its way to comet 67/P Churyumov-Gerasimenko. Launched in March 2004, Rosetta will reach its final destination only in 2014, after travelling a total of about 6500 million km. The distance between the spacecraft and the Sun as it approaches the comet will be about 600 million or 4 AU (1 AU or 1 Astronomical Unit is equal to 150 million km, the mean distance between Earth and the Sun). Rosetta has swung by Earth twice and Mars once, performing gravity-assist manoeuvres, that gave it the necessary boost to continue on its journey. The third and last Earth swing-by is scheduled for November 2009. The spacecraft will also fly by two asteroids and study them on the way: (2867) Steins in September this year and (21) Lutetia in June 2010. As it closes in on (2867) Steins in September, Rosetta will have travelled about 3700 million km and will be 2.1 AU from the Sun. After its last planetary swing-by on 13 November last year, Rosetta headed towards the asteroid belt located between the orbits of Mars and Jupiter. On 27 March 2008, the spacecraft switched to its near-Sun hibernation mode for a period of three months. During this phase, a few subsystems were put into a dormant state to optimise their lifetime (as this is only the beginning of the mission's science phase). Next stop, Steins Rosetta will be closest to (2867) Steins at 20:37 CEST on 5 September, at a distance of 800 km. The spacecraft will zoom past at a relative speed of 8.6 km/s. In preparation for the fly-by, all the instruments will be checked and tested through the month of July. Between 4 August and 4 September, spacecraft operators will conduct an optical navigation campaign: Steins will be tracked by the on-board cameras and the observations will be used to refine the knowledge of its orbit which has been derived only from ground-based measurements so far. Asteroids are samples of the Solar System's material at different stages of evolution, and studying them helps scientists understand the origin and evolution of Earth and of our planetary neighbourhood. (2867) Steins is a relatively rare type of asteroid. Based on ground-based observations it has been classified as an E-type asteroid, composed mainly of silicates and basalts, but its properties are not known in detail. For these reasons, it has been selected as one of the two asteroids that Rosetta will study, from among those that were within reach of the mission. The knowledge gained from the measurements will add to our knowledge of the composition and evolution of E-type asteroids and will also supplement and help interpret future ground-based data on asteroids. Making most of the fly-by The observations will be used to characterise the asteroid and its environment and to test Rosetta's instruments, most of which will be active during the fly-by. The science objectives of the fly-by observations are as follows: * To characterise the asteroid by studying its physical and chemical properties * To study its kinematic properties (its rotation, for example) * To study the asteroid's surface and to perform comparative studies with surfaces of other asteroids in order to understand differences between asteroid types * To study the interaction between the solar wind and the asteroid * To study the asteroid's environment, including the presence of natural satellites, the magnetic and electrical properties of the immediate environment, and gas or dust orbiting the asteroid The fly-by will push Rosetta to its design limits, especially owing to the fast rotation of the spacecraft around the time of closest approach. The manoeuvre is necessary to ensure that the asteroid will stay in the field of view of the instruments. In view of this, a full in-flight simulation of the fly-by was performed on 24 March 2008. The tests were successful, confirming the spacecraft's robustness. Major journey milestones Launch: 2 March 2004 First Earth swing-by: 4 March 2005 Mars swing-by: 25 February 2007 Second Earth swing-by: 13 November 2007 Third Earth swing-by: 13 November 2009 Comet 67/P Churyumov-Gerasimenko rendezvous: May 2014 Landing on the comet: November 2014 Escorting the comet: until end 2015 For more information: Gerhard Schwehm, ESA Rosetta Mission Manager Email: Gerhard.Schwehm @ esa.int Rita Schulz, ESA Rosetta Project Scientist Email: Rita.Schulz @ esa.int Andrea Accomazzo, ESA Rosetta Spacecraft Operations Manager Email: Andrea.Accomazzo @ esa.int [NOTE: Images and weblinks suporting this release are available at http://www.esa.int/SPECIALS/Rosetta/SEMQPDSHKHF_1.html ] From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Sun Jul 6 01:02:16 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2008 22:02:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Acid Rain Traces Support Meteor Theory For 1908 Tunguska Blast Message-ID: <200807060502.WAA15594@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Acid_Rain_Traces_Support_Meteor_Theory_For_1908_Tunguska_Blast Acid Rain Traces Support Meteor Theory For 1908 Tunguska Blast RIA Novosti) July 01, 2008 International researchers investigating the Tunguska Event, an explosion exactly 100 years ago in central Siberia, say acid rain traces in the region back up the theory that the blast was caused by a meteorite. On June 30, 1908, an explosion equivalent to between 5 and 30 megatons of TNT occurred approximately 7-10 km (3-6 miles) above the Podkamennaya Tunguska River in a remote Siberian region. "Extremely high temperatures occurred as the meteorite entered the atmosphere, during which the oxygen in the atmosphere reacted with nitrogen causing a build up of nitrogen oxides," one of the authors of the joint research, Natalia Kolesnikova, told RIA Novosti. Kolesnikova said a similar impact 66 million years ago wiped out a significant portion of life on Earth, including the dinosaurs. The Tunguska blast flattened 80 million trees, destroying an area of around 2,150 sq km (830 sq miles). However, despite the shockwaves being detected as far away as the United Kingdom, the Tunguska Event went largely unnoticed, eclipsed by global events leading up to WWI, the Russian Revolution and subsequent civil war. If the explosion had occurred some 4 hours and 47 minutes later, due to the Earth's rotation it would have completely destroyed the then Russian imperial capital of St. Petersburg. It took almost 20 years, until 1927, before a research expedition led by Leonid Kulik, a leading meteorite expert at the Academy of Sciences, first managed to visit the remote Siberian region and see the awesome destruction caused by the blast, and to take witness statements from locals living in the area. It was assumed that a huge meteorite had hit the area, although Kulik failed, during his research in Siberia, to find an obvious crater. In 1930, a British astronomer suggested the blast could have been caused by a small comet, composed of ice and dust, which would have been vaporized on impact with the Earth's atmosphere. The research carried out by the Moscow State Lomonosov University, Italy's Bologna University and Germany's Center for Environmental Research in Leipzig backs up the most likely theory of a meteor explosion. However it is unlikely to put a stop to speculation on theories ranging from alien attacks, UFOs, antimatter, doomsday events and black holes. From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Sun Jul 6 06:06:58 2008 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2008 06:06:58 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - July 6, 2008 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/July_6_2008.html **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) From rob at nakhladogmeteorites.com Sun Jul 6 13:17:08 2008 From: rob at nakhladogmeteorites.com (Rob Wesel) Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2008 10:17:08 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad- 20 pound Enstatite Message-ID: <001401c8df8c$1f070b70$6501a8c0@windows9bb74fe> Hello all - Just a note to inform you that I have a huge polished enstatite endcut ending tomorrow. If big is your thing I encourage you to have a look. It's running with no reserve so you're only competing with your fellow collectors http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnakhladog Rob Wesel http://www.nakhladogmeteorites.com ------------------ We are the music makers... and we are the dreamers of the dreams. Willy Wonka, 1971 From mafer at imagineopals.com Sun Jul 6 16:14:54 2008 From: mafer at imagineopals.com (mafer) Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2008 16:14:54 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] spmeone had a great 4th sometime, what a photo! References: <455048.3697.qm@web33101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <6vd0745dmv8bfm1ica69is2econ87tklqh@4ax.com> Message-ID: <004101c8dfa4$f50e8820$01fea8c0@ANGELAE> http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc47/imagineopal/meteor.jpg From pshugar at clearwire.net Sun Jul 6 17:52:27 2008 From: pshugar at clearwire.net (Pete Shugar) Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2008 16:52:27 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] spmeone had a great 4th sometime, what a photo! References: <455048.3697.qm@web33101.mail.mud.yahoo.com><6vd0745dmv8bfm1ica69is2econ87tklqh@4ax.com> <004101c8dfa4$f50e8820$01fea8c0@ANGELAE> Message-ID: <001501c8dfb2$96ebaee0$0201a8c0@laptop> I see a lightning display and a fireworks display. Where's the meteor???????????? Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "mafer" To: Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 3:14 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] spmeone had a great 4th sometime, what a photo! > http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc47/imagineopal/meteor.jpg > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Sun Jul 6 18:33:07 2008 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2008 17:33:07 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] spmeone had a great 4th sometime, what a photo! References: <455048.3697.qm@web33101.mail.mud.yahoo.com><6vd0745dmv8bfm1ica69is2econ87tklqh@4ax.com><004101c8dfa4$f50e8820$01fea8c0@ANGELAE> <001501c8dfb2$96ebaee0$0201a8c0@laptop> Message-ID: <079501c8dfb8$43eb74e0$2346e146@ATARIENGINE> Look at the image full size. The meteor-like object is actually Comet McNaught. Sterling K. Webb -------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete Shugar" To: "mafer" ; Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 4:52 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] spmeone had a great 4th sometime, what a photo! I see a lightning display and a fireworks display. Where's the meteor???????????? Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "mafer" To: Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 3:14 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] spmeone had a great 4th sometime, what a photo! > http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc47/imagineopal/meteor.jpg > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From valparint at aol.com Sun Jul 6 18:57:31 2008 From: valparint at aol.com (valparint at aol.com) Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2008 15:57:31 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Marjalahti pics Message-ID: Does anyone know where I can find decent pictures of Marjalahti slices? Please contact me off list. Thanks. Paul Swartz From cynapse at charter.net Sun Jul 6 19:06:40 2008 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2008 19:06:40 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] spmeone had a great 4th sometime, what a photo! In-Reply-To: <079501c8dfb8$43eb74e0$2346e146@ATARIENGINE> References: <455048.3697.qm@web33101.mail.mud.yahoo.com><6vd0745dmv8bfm1ica69is2econ87tklqh@4ax.com><004101c8dfa4$f50e8820$01fea8c0@ANGELAE> <001501c8dfb2$96ebaee0$0201a8c0@laptop> <079501c8dfb8$43eb74e0$2346e146@ATARIENGINE> Message-ID: On Sun, 6 Jul 2008 17:33:07 -0500, you wrote: >Look at the image full size. The meteor-like >object is actually Comet McNaught. > Missed that! Great image, pity it's such a tiny photo. From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Sun Jul 6 19:44:12 2008 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2008 18:44:12 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Holocene start impacts References: <838727.95363.qm@web36908.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <07ac01c8dfc2$31f246b0$2346e146@ATARIENGINE> Hi, EP, List, Mostly, I called it an "evidenceless" comet because the argument has such weak and contradictory evidence adavnced for it, and it's annoying. I was annoyed. A carbon-14 "bump" is proof something happened, but the list of things that can produce one is long. It allows the possiblity but does not restrict it to any one possibility. A very long list. Likewise, the 514 microparticles found in Tunguska trees with enrichments in heavy atoms of high atomic weight (high-Z) suggest the soil was enriched in those elements during the impact years. The authors think that suggests a stoney asteroid. not a comet, but how would we know what a comet's interior contains? No samples, in contrast to asteroids of which we have plentiful samples. This evidence "implies;" it dosn't "prove" anything. It could be from asteroids, or could be from comets, or could be from cosmic dust, or could be from a volcano, fer chrissake. (Remember, there's also a crypto-volcanic theory of Tunguska, too.) And, notice from that website cited, they find NO enrichment of iridium. It's not one of the 14 enriched elements. No osmium, no other exotice elements we use as markers of extraterrestriality. Why? Because the sample is too small (514 microparticles), the instrument xray spectrometer) too insensitive for the purpose, the results are inconclusive. If there was more evidence, there would be more and better results, or bigger evidence, or more dramatic evidence... But there isn't. Hence, "evidenceless" comets (or whatever). No fingerprints. Perfect Crime. Sterling K. Webb --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "E.P. Grondine" To: Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2008 11:20 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Holocene start impacts Hi Sterling, all "Exactly how did this evidenceless Comet extinct 75% of the largest mammals? " I hope those of you here not interested in this will forgive me yet another message, one which should have been combined with the earlier one. Did I mention that I've had a major stroke? - please forgive me this additional message. Sterling, I always enjoy your comments from your encyclopedic knowledge, and your scepticism, and rigor, but speaking of science by press releases, but those cometary impacts are not "evidenceless". Aside from the cometary microspherule deposits, there's the C14 production hump at 10,900 BCE, which is what started Firestone off on his quest. Saying that it's "evidenceless" does not make it so. Why did your memory fail you? In my case its due to stroke from undiagnosed diabetes, and I'd like to remind everyone here to watch their diets and get their a1c's checked. Shifting to something more meteoritic, I'm hoping to get to those earlier posts and hear more on those recent irons from SE North America. Perhaps they'll throw some light on the "Hopewell" iron artifacts. good hunting all, E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Sun Jul 6 20:08:26 2008 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2008 19:08:26 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] spmeone had a great 4th sometime, what a photo! References: <455048.3697.qm@web33101.mail.mud.yahoo.com><6vd0745dmv8bfm1ica69is2econ87tklqh@4ax.com><004101c8dfa4$f50e8820$01fea8c0@ANGELAE><001501c8dfb2$96ebaee0$0201a8c0@laptop><079501c8dfb8$43eb74e0$2346e146@ATARIENGINE> Message-ID: <07b701c8dfc5$94838de0$2346e146@ATARIENGINE> As I recall, this photo was taken in Australia. Image Google Comet McNaught; there are plenty of huge pictures. McNaught was a "showy" comet with a tail like a peacock. Or go to: http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/archivepix.html and search for pictures of McNaught. Lots of big beautiful ones there (January, 2007). You could see it in broad daylight. What I liked about it is that its ion tail was made of IRON atoms. A special gift for all the people who insist comets are "just" iceballs -- an Iron Comet! Sterling K. Webb ----------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darren Garrison" To: Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 6:06 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] spmeone had a great 4th sometime, what a photo! On Sun, 6 Jul 2008 17:33:07 -0500, you wrote: >Look at the image full size. The meteor-like >object is actually Comet McNaught. > Missed that! Great image, pity it's such a tiny photo. ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From info at tektiteinc.com Mon Jul 7 00:23:45 2008 From: info at tektiteinc.com (info at tektiteinc.com) Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2008 23:23:45 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Rizalites Tektite Inc on eBay. Australite Hunting Pictures Message-ID: <33198.127.0.0.1.1215404625.squirrel@srv08.ezyreg.com> Hello all, Please have a look at my offerings of Rizalites on ebay. I've got one specimen ending in about a days time. Please also have a look at the Australite hunting pictures in Western Australia on my site below. Thanks! Cheers, Desmond Leong IMCA #2254 http://www.TektiteInc.com http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZtektiteinc-dot-com From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Mon Jul 7 15:48:44 2008 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 15:48:44 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - July 7, 2008 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/July_7_2008.html **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Mon Jul 7 16:16:17 2008 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 07 Jul 2008 20:16:17 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] RFS Picture of the Day: Phil Morgan's Flyer Message-ID: Mr and Mrs H.H. Nininger once wrote: "You will see these strange meteorites" Anyone care to give answers to these 22 pieces of information??? Maybe one answer per list member. Happy sleuthing! Let me start with #1: "A meteorite that fell through a house roof in Missouri during WWI" Well, that's "Baxter" ... like list member Jim Baxter ;-) Hi Jim, how are you doin'? Baxter is an L6 chondrite of 611 grams that fell through the roof of a house in Stone (!) County, Missouri, on Jan 18, 1616. Cheers, Bernd From mexicodoug at aim.com Mon Jul 7 17:28:37 2008 From: mexicodoug at aim.com (mexicodoug at aim.com) Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2008 17:28:37 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] RFS Picture of the Day: Phil Morgan's Flyer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CAAE8F8D9A3B74-1F70-3B5@webmail-stg-d08.sysops.aol.com> Hi Bernd and Listees, "A meteorite that was excavated in an ancient Arizona ruin. It was found wrapped in a feather cloth and [enclosed in] a stone cyst." brackets [] are mine to question whether it was really 'on' or 'in'. refs- http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~afs/may96_2.html The Camp Verde, Arizona iron meteorite was found on an 800-year-old Sinagua "altar," wrapped in a feather blanket and was probably transported from Meteor Crater approximately 100 km to the northeast. and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteorite In 1915, a 135-pound iron meteorite was found in a Sinagua (c.1100-1200 AD) burial cyst near Camp Verde, Arizona, respectfully wrapped in a feather cloth. referenced to Nininger's 1972 Catch [sic] a Falling Star'. Best wishes Doug -----Original Message----- From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Sent: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 3:16 pm Subject: [meteorite-list] RFS Picture of the Day: Phil Morgan's Flyer Mr and Mrs H.H. Nininger once wrote: "You will see these strange meteorites Anyone care to give answers to these 22 pieces of information??? Maybe one answer per list member. Happy sleuthing! Let me start with #1: "A meteorite that fell through a house roof in Missouri during WWI" Well, that's "Baxter" ... like list member Jim Baxter ;-) Hi Jim, how are you doin'? Baxter is an L6 chondrite of 611 grams that fell through the roof of a house in Stone (!) County, Missouri, on Jan 18, 1616. Cheers, Bernd ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mexicodoug at aim.com Mon Jul 7 17:56:41 2008 From: mexicodoug at aim.com (mexicodoug at aim.com) Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2008 17:56:41 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] RFS Picture of the Day: Phil Morgan's Flyer In-Reply-To: <8CAAE8F8D9A3B74-1F70-3B5@webmail-stg-d08.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CAAE8F8D9A3B74-1F70-3B5@webmail-stg-d08.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CAAE93793BCB5E-1F70-517@webmail-stg-d08.sysops.aol.com> One more important reference, V. Buchwald, 1975, V. 2, p. 399, 'On the top of a mesa a few miles east of Camp Verde, George E. Dawson came upon a stone cyst in the corner of an ancient Indian dwelling. Instead of finding a child burial as he expected, he found a 61.5 kg metallic meteorite wrapped in a feather-cloth. ref-Nininger and Nininger 1950 p. 106. Considerable pottery was found associated with the burial by which its age was determined as about 800 years. ref-Nininger 1952. The meteorite was found about 1915, about 33 km South of Sedona and 85 km Southwest of Meteor Crater, in Yavapai County. The ancient Indian cliff dwellings, Montezuma Castle, are about 7 km North of the find. While the find was briefly reported by A.D. Nininger ref-1940. and photographed by Nininger and Nininger ref-1952., it was only analyzed lately by Moore et. al. ref-1968. and Wasson ref-1968. Wasson concluded on the basis of Ga-Ge-Ir contents, which were similar withing analytical error to Canyon Diablo, that Camp Verde was a mass transported from the strewn field of Meteor Crater." Cheers Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] RFS Picture of the Day: Phil Morgan's Flyer Hi Bernd and Listees, ? ? ? ? "A meteorite that was excavated in an ancient Arizona ruin. It? was found wrapped in a feather cloth and [enclosed in] a stone cyst."? ? brackets [] are mine to question whethe r it was really 'on' or 'in'.? ? refs-? ? http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~afs/may96_2.html? ? The Camp Verde, Arizona iron meteorite was found on an 800-year-old Sinagua "altar," wrapped in a feather blanket and was probably transported from Meteor Crater approximately 100 km to the northeast.? ? and? ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteorite? ? In 1915, a 135-pound iron meteorite was found in a Sinagua (c.1100-1200 AD) burial cyst near Camp Verde, Arizona, respectfully wrapped in a feather cloth. referenced to Nininger's 1972 Catch [sic] a Falling Star'.? ? Best wishes? Doug? ? -----Original Message-----? From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de? To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com? Sent: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 3:16 pm? Subject: [meteorite-list] RFS Picture of the Day: Phil Morgan's Flyer? ? ? Mr and Mrs H.H. Nininger once wrote: "You will see these strange meteorites? ? Anyone care to give answers to these 22 pieces of information???? Maybe one answer per list member. Happy sleuthing!? ? Let me start with #1: "A meteorite that fell through a house roof in Missouri? during WWI"? ? Well, that's "Baxter" ... like list member Jim Baxter ;-) Hi Jim, how are you? doin'?? ? Baxter is an L6 chondrite of 611 grams that fell through the roof? of a house in Stone (!) County, Missouri, on Jan 18, 1616.? ? Cheers,? ? Bernd? ? ______________________________________________? http://www.meteoritecentral.com? Meteorite-list mailing list? Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com? http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list? ? ______________________________________________? http://www.meteoritecentral.com? Meteorite-list mailing list? Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com? http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list? From majbaermann at web.de Mon Jul 7 18:27:33 2008 From: majbaermann at web.de (=?utf-8?Q?Matthias_B=C3=A4rmann?=) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 00:27:33 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] RFS Picture of the Day: Phil Morgan's Flyer References: <8CAAE8F8D9A3B74-1F70-3B5@webmail-stg-d08.sysops.aol.com> <8CAAE93793BCB5E-1F70-517@webmail-stg-d08.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Hi Doug, list members , - "'On the top of a mesa a few miles east of Camp Verde, George E. Dawson came upon a stone cyst in the corner of an ancient Indian dwelling. Instead of finding a child burial as he expected, he found a 61.5 kg metallic meteorite wrapped in a feather-cloth." As far as I know it was nearly the same with the Winona meteorite. I was always moved by the fact that American Indian tribes such as the Sinagua (which were related to the Anasazi I guess) buried a meteorite in a way they did with children. Perhaps they considered the falling of a meteorite to be an act of birth? Obviously they were sure that this stone - and Winona really doesn't look spectacular - was something special. Couldn't that point to the fact that they observed the meteorite falling? Any ideas about that? Best regards, Matthias Baermann ---- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 11:56 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] RFS Picture of the Day: Phil Morgan's Flyer > One more important reference, V. Buchwald, 1975, V. 2, p. 399, > > 'On the top of a mesa a few miles east of Camp Verde, George E. Dawson > came upon a stone cyst in the corner of an ancient Indian dwelling. > Instead of finding a child burial as he expected, he found a 61.5 kg > metallic meteorite wrapped in a feather-cloth. ref-Nininger and Nininger > 1950 p. 106. Considerable pottery was found associated with the burial by > which its age was determined as about 800 years. ref-Nininger 1952. The > meteorite was found about 1915, about 33 km South of Sedona and 85 km > Southwest of Meteor Crater, in Yavapai County. The ancient Indian cliff > dwellings, Montezuma Castle, are about 7 km North of the find. While the > find was briefly reported by A.D. Nininger ref-1940. and photographed by > Nininger and Nininger ref-1952., it was only analyzed lately by Moore et. > al. ref-1968. and Wasson ref-1968. Wasson concluded on the basis of > Ga-Ge-Ir contents, which were similar withing analytical error to Canyon > Diablo, that Camp Verde was a mass transported from the strewn field of > Meteor Crater." > > Cheers > > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] RFS Picture of the Day: Phil Morgan's Flyer > > Hi Bernd and Listees, "A meteorite that was excavated in an ancient > Arizona ruin. It was found wrapped in a feather cloth and [enclosed in] a > stone cyst." > brackets [] are mine to question whethe > r it was really 'on' or 'in'. > refs- > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~afs/may96_2.html > The Camp Verde, Arizona iron meteorite was found on an 800-year-old > Sinagua "altar," wrapped in a feather blanket and was probably transported > from Meteor Crater approximately 100 km to the northeast. > and > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteorite > In 1915, a 135-pound iron meteorite was found in a Sinagua (c.1100-1200 > AD) burial cyst near Camp Verde, Arizona, respectfully wrapped in a > feather cloth. referenced to Nininger's 1972 Catch [sic] a Falling Star'. > Best wishes Doug > -----Original Message----- > From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Sent: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 3:16 pm Subject: [meteorite-list] RFS Picture of the > Day: Phil Morgan's Flyer > > Mr and Mrs H.H. Nininger once wrote: "You will see these strange > meteorites > Anyone care to give answers to these 22 pieces of information??? Maybe one > answer per list member. Happy sleuthing! > Let me start with #1: "A meteorite that fell through a house roof in > Missouri during WWI" > Well, that's "Baxter" ... like list member Jim Baxter ;-) Hi Jim, how are > you doin'? > Baxter is an L6 chondrite of 611 grams that fell through the roof of a > house in Stone (!) County, Missouri, on Jan 18, 1616. > > Cheers, > Bernd > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From mexicodoug at aim.com Mon Jul 7 21:28:36 2008 From: mexicodoug at aim.com (mexicodoug at aim.com) Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2008 21:28:36 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] RFS Picture of the Day: Phil Morgan's Flyer In-Reply-To: References: <8CAAE8F8D9A3B74-1F70-3B5@webmail-stg-d08.sysops.aol.com> <8CAAE93793BCB5E-1F70-517@webmail-stg-d08.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CAAEB1129E3A3D-13C0-E3D@webmail-stg-d02.sysops.aol.com> Hi Matthias and other meteorite friends, Matthias wrote, with reference to Winona and Camp Verde- '- was something special. Couldn't that point to the fact that they observed the meteorite falling? Any ideas about that?' That really is a 1,000,000 dollar question for paleo-meteorite collectors and their modern day counterparts ;] Unless viejo Pendejo paleo-Indians saw Canyon Diablo fall and were close enough to the event to realize what happened [the closeness IMO is feasible imagining the Gran Teton bolide]; but far enough away to survive, it would be hard to come up with a convincing story regarding the 'Camp Verde' mass to have been a recorded witnessed fall for Indians in the region ca. 50,000 years later if we are to believe that upstart M.I.T. researcher who first suggested it was paired to Canyon Diablo. I guess Winona is another animal, though as to my knowledge and extent of Google capability, don't know of and cannot find any studies that have actually dated the Winona meteorite's terrestrial age. It would seem to mirror the case of Glorieta Mountain which enjoys that interesting Indian medicine man relationship also in the first half of the last millenium. These later two meteorites would seem to fall into this nasty terrestrial dating abyss where they are too old for thermoluminescence to yield palatable results and possibly, if we want to believe they are orally recorded witnessed fa lls in Indian tradition, too young to be studied by carbon 14 dating techniques unambiguously. So while I really am with you at heart to consider the possibility that these were known as witnessed falls, there are too many other explanations I could imagine that would seem equally plausible, when faced with a lack of hard evidence. For example, I would suggest that strange stones, especially heavy ones that were out of place - and I bet some Indians were very good observational geologists given their need to live off the land, could have been venerated just for being different. Or perhaps no veneration at all is involved...I could imagine a scenario in a community oriented culture that for whatever reason, an rock could be perceived to be special or have value - and be cached in hopes of the finder getting a monopoly on benefiting from it's desirable properties. These cysts would seem to be excellent hiding places to that effect - you know - so the governing council didn't expropriate the object in the name of the nation, or something like that. The bandages or feather blankets, Mummy wrappings, etc., don't necessarily imply veneration. Anyone with an iron meteorite and poorly insulated house would probably want to wrap their iron in something absorbant for protection, which is a practical alternate supposition. Even most stony meteorites are well served when wrapped in an absorbant and/or insulatin g material. The Indians were probably primitive by our standards in their knowledge of meteorites, but most Indian cultures seem to have great appreciation for nature and they certainly weren't sstupid. Here is a picture of Winona upon its 1928 discoveryin the cyst in the floor- http://www.daviddarling.info/images/Winona_meteorite.jpg Not discounting the witnessed fall theory in the case of Winona, just keeping an open mind for other possibilities besides natural bias to want to see these Indians as having been bitten by the meteorite collecting bug [and why not - this was true for other tribes that recognized the utility of the materials]. I can imagine an alien species coming to earth after our mutually assured destruction, and finding how many of us collectors venerate meteorites, putting them in special display cases and with silica gel and the like, and coming to the conclusion that meteorite collectors venerated meteorites. Of course, though not exactly in the same train of thought they would be right ;] Why Winona fell apart upon recovery after perhaps nearly 1000 years in Indian custody seems to be worthy of beng one of the great reputed events in meteoritics. Either we're missing some important piece of the story [question mark], or perhaps the Indians really knew it required a little more TLC than whatever nasty cleaning or stress it was subjected to in by the archaeologist that recovered it. Cheers and best wishes, Doug -----Original Message----- From: Matthias B?rmann To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com; MexicoDoug Sent: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 5:27 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] RFS Picture of the Day: Phil Morgan's Flyer Hi Doug, list members , -? ? "'On the top of a mesa a few miles east of Camp Verde, George E. Dawson? came upon a stone cyst in the corner of an ancient Indian dwelling.? Instead of finding a child burial as he expected, he found a 61.5 kg? metallic meteorite wrapped in a feather-cloth."? ? As far as I know it was nearly the same with the Winona meteorite. I was? always moved by the fact that American Indian tribes such as the Sinagua? (which were related to the Anasazi I guess) buried a meteorite in a way they? did with children. Perhaps they considered the falling of a meteorite to be? an act of birth? Obviously they were sure that this stone - and Winona? really doesn't look spectacular - was something special. Couldn't that point? to the fact that they observed the meteorite falling? Any ideas about that?? ? Best regards,? ? Matthias Baermann? ? ---- Original Message ----- From: ? To: ? Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 11:56 PM? Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] RFS Picture of=2 0the Day: Phil Morgan's Flyer? ? > One more important reference, V. Buchwald, 1975, V. 2, p. 399,? >? > 'On the top of a mesa a few miles east of Camp Verde, George E. Dawson? > came upon a stone cyst in the corner of an ancient Indian dwelling.? > Instead of finding a child burial as he expected, he found a 61.5 kg? > metallic meteorite wrapped in a feather-cloth. ref-Nininger and Nininger? > 1950 p. 106. Considerable pottery was found associated with the burial by? > which its age was determined as about 800 years. ref-Nininger 1952. The? > meteorite was found about 1915, about 33 km South of Sedona and 85 km? > Southwest of Meteor Crater, in Yavapai County. The ancient Indian cliff? > dwellings, Montezuma Castle, are about 7 km North of the find. While the? > find was briefly reported by A.D. Nininger ref-1940. and photographed by? > Nininger and Nininger ref-1952., it was only analyzed lately by Moore et.? > al. ref-1968. and Wasson ref-1968. Wasson concluded on the basis of? > Ga-Ge-Ir contents, which were similar withing analytical error to Canyon? > Diablo, that Camp Verde was a mass transported from the strewn field of? > Meteor Crater."? >? > Cheers? >? >? > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] RFS Picture of the Day: Phil Morgan's Flyer? >? > Hi Bernd and Listees, "A meteorite that was excavated in an ancient? > Arizona ruin. It was found wrapped in a feather cloth and [enclosed in] a? > stone cyst."? > brackets [] are mine to question whethe? > r it was really 'on' or 'in'.? > refs-? > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~afs/may96_2.html? > The Camp Verde, Arizona iron meteorite was found on an 800-year-old? > Sinagua "altar," wrapped in a feather blanket and was probably transported? > from Meteor Crater approximately 100 km to the northeast.? > and? > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteorite? > In 1915, a 135-pound iron meteorite was found in a Sinagua (c.1100-1200? > AD) burial cyst near Camp Verde, Arizona, respectfully wrapped in a? > feather cloth. referenced to Nininger's 1972 Catch [sic] a Falling Star'.? > Best wishes Doug? > -----Original Message----- > From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com? > Sent: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 3:16 pm Subject: [meteorite-list] RFS Picture of the? > Day: Phil Morgan's Flyer? >? > Mr and Mrs H.H. Nininger once wrote: "You will see these strange? > meteorites? > Anyone care to give answers to these 22 pieces of information??? Maybe one? > answer per list member. Happy sleuthing!? > Let me start with #1: "A meteorite that fell through a house roof in? > Missouri during WWI"? > Well, that's "Baxter" ... like list member Jim Baxter ;-) Hi Jim, how are? > you doin'?? > Baxter is an L6 chondrite of 611 grams that fell through the roof of a? > house in Stone (!) County, Missouri, on Jan 18, 1616.? >? > Cheers,? > Bernd? > ______________________________________________? > http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list? > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com? > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list? > ______________________________________________? > http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list? > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com? > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list? > ______________________________________________? > http://www.meteoritecentral.com? > Meteorite-list mailing list? > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com? > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list? >? ? From mmurray at montrose.net Mon Jul 7 22:10:41 2008 From: mmurray at montrose.net (Michael Murray) Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 20:10:41 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - July 7, 2008 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "The only known copper meteorite in the world." Which is that? Who has it today? I would like to catch a glimpse of it if I could. Mike in CO On Jul 7, 2008, at 1:48 PM, SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com wrote: > http://www.rocksfromspace.org/July_7_2008.html > > > > > **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for > fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used? > ncid=aolaut00050000000007) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoriteplaya at gmail.com Mon Jul 7 22:29:48 2008 From: meteoriteplaya at gmail.com (Mike Jensen) Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 20:29:48 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - July 7, 2008 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6f9da8300807071929sed96ee2oc3d368aa01f6eec0@mail.gmail.com> Hi Michael It refers to the Eaton Colorado pseudo meteorite. Nininger was convinced it was meteorite but subsequent research determined it to be of this earth. Hey he couldn't be right all the time. http://tinyurl.com/5zvb6r or http://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/metbull.php?sea=eaton&sfor=names&ants=&falls=&stype=contains&lrec=50&map=ge&browse=&country=All&srt=name&categ=All&mblist=All&phot=&snew=0&pnt=no&code=7765 In the reference section of the listing click on the "NASA ADS" link. Then go to the bottom and you will find a couple of articles (at the bottom) with lots of additional information. One is by Nininger and details the unusual recovery circumstances. Mike Mike Jensen Jensen Meteorites 16730 E Ada PL Aurora, CO 80017-3137 303-337-4361 IMCA 4264 website: www.jensenmeteorites.com On Mon, Jul 7, 2008 at 8:10 PM, Michael Murray wrote: > "The only known copper meteorite in the world." Which is that? Who has it > today? I would like to catch a glimpse of it if I could. > > Mike in CO > > > On Jul 7, 2008, at 1:48 PM, SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com wrote: > >> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/July_7_2008.html >> >> >> >> >> **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for >> fuel-efficient used cars. >> (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com Mon Jul 7 22:50:17 2008 From: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com (STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com) Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 22:50:17 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - July 7, 2008 Message-ID: While this is not a copper meteorite, some of the fresher SaU 001 show a strong copper finish or "patina". Does any one know if this is a result of vaporization of metals in the meteorite or just an unusual weathering process? I have reasoned it is a result of heat and not weathering as the more weathered examples no longer display this feature. Tom Phillips (Back in Idaho!) In a message dated 7/7/2008 8:17:38 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, mmurray at montrose.net writes: "The only known copper meteorite in the world." Which is that? Who has it today? I would like to catch a glimpse of it if I could. Mike in CO On Jul 7, 2008, at 1:48 PM, SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com wrote: > http://www.rocksfromspace.org/July_7_2008.html > > > > > **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for > fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used? > ncid=aolaut00050000000007) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) From cynapse at charter.net Tue Jul 8 00:36:01 2008 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2008 00:36:01 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] More golden showers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,377449,00.html Diamonds May Have Rained Down From Space During Ice Age Monday , July 07, 2008 By Ker Than LS ADVERTISEMENT Diamonds and precious metals found in the eastern United States might have rained down during the last Ice Age after a comet shattered over Canada and set North America ablaze, all leading to a mass die-off of animals and humans. New chemical analyses of diamond, gold and silver found in Ohio and Indiana reveal the minerals were transported there from Canada several thousand years ago. The question is, how? "There are no gold mines or silver mines in Ohio that anyone knows of, but there are plenty of them in Canada," said retired geophysicist Allen West, who was involved in the study. The discovery is consistent with a theory proposed by West and colleagues that a 3-mile-wide comet splintered over glaciers and ice sheets in eastern Canada about 12,900 years ago and wiped out man and beast. "These would have been like ten thousand Tunguskas going off at once," said West, referring to a mid-air explosion over Siberia a century ago possibly caused by a fragmenting meteor. Precious rain The diamonds, gold and silver could have been ejected into the air during the blasts, West said, or they could have been carried south by rivers formed from the meltwater of liquified glaciers. For several months following the comet strike, the skies rained precious stone and metals, the researchers speculate. Diamonds drizzled down by the tons. "Some of them you couldn't see, and animals would've been breathing them in," West told LiveScience. "But other ones would clearly have been visible. They might've even hurt if they hit you." The larger diamonds were visible to the naked eye and dropped like hail stones within seconds of the blasts, West said. The smallest diamonds, the "size of cold viruses," would have lingered in the atmosphere for weeks or months, eventually wafting down to Earth like expensive snowflakes. Killed man and beast Flaming fragments of the comet crashing to Earth sparked forests fires around the globe, West contends. The intense heat from the blasts set the very air on fire. North America's grassland, the furs of animals, the hair and clothing of humans ? all would have been set ablaze. West and his colleagues have proposed that the comet strike contributed to the extinction of several species of North American megafauna, including mammoths and mastodons, and led to the early demise of the Clovis culture, a Stone Age people who had only recently immigrated to the continent. The multiple airbursts might have also caused large amounts of fresh water to be dumped into the Atlantic Ocean, temporarily disrupting currents and prompting a sudden global cold snap called the Younger Dryas period. "The kind of evidence we are finding does suggest that climate change at the end of the last Ice Age was the result of a catastrophic event," said study team member Ken Tankersley, an anthropologist at the University of Cincinnati. While the discoveries in Ohio and Indiana are consistent with the theory of a comet colliding with Earth during the last Ice Age, West cautions that it is not a "smoking gun." "We're a long way from saying categorically that these things got here because of this event," West said. "They're consistent, but we've got a lot more work to do to show there's a direct connection." The researchers are preparing to submit their research to a scientific journal. Copyright ? 2008 Imaginova Corp. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed. From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Tue Jul 8 01:57:41 2008 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 00:57:41 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] More golden showers References: Message-ID: <084201c8e0bf$893eaaa0$2346e146@ATARIENGINE> Hi, Darren, List, Please note that the first press release said that the discovery disproved the "now discredited" theory of glacial transport. A few days later, they say: "diamonds, gold and silver could have been ejected into the air during the blasts, West said, or they could have been carried south by rivers formed from the meltwater of liquified glaciers." Change your tune much? Note also that they specify a magnitude for the blast of 300,000 megatons. This would require an impactor of 1000 to 1300 meters in diameter (more for a comet) and would produce a 20-kilometer crater. They say a 5000 meter comet, for good measure. Even better is this assertion: "For several months following the comet strike, the skies rained precious stone and metals, the researchers speculate. Diamonds drizzled down by the tons." FOR MONTHS? Diamonds and gold rained from the sky for MONTHS? As dust, they explain -- diamond dust and presumably gold dust. I wonder how many tens of thousands of tons of diamonds they think were laying around on the Canadian tundra? One easily testable assertion of their scheme is these massive floods of glacial meltwaters at precisely 12,900 years ago EVERYWHERE in the northern tier of states, entirely at the same instant, from the Atlantic to the Pacific. Since glacial melt chronology has been worked out in great detail over a century, there should be some sign of this massive melt they speak of. (PS: they're isn't any.) While in one place, they speak of a "three-mile comet," elsewhere in the press release, they speak of "the multiple airbursts..." Always good to have a couple of different stories going, I guess. This just gets more entertaining by the day... Sterling K. Webb ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darren Garrison" To: Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 11:36 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] More golden showers http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,377449,00.html Diamonds May Have Rained Down From Space During Ice Age Monday , July 07, 2008 By Ker Than LS ADVERTISEMENT Diamonds and precious metals found in the eastern United States might have rained down during the last Ice Age after a comet shattered over Canada and set North America ablaze, all leading to a mass die-off of animals and humans. New chemical analyses of diamond, gold and silver found in Ohio and Indiana reveal the minerals were transported there from Canada several thousand years ago. The question is, how? "There are no gold mines or silver mines in Ohio that anyone knows of, but there are plenty of them in Canada," said retired geophysicist Allen West, who was involved in the study. The discovery is consistent with a theory proposed by West and colleagues that a 3-mile-wide comet splintered over glaciers and ice sheets in eastern Canada about 12,900 years ago and wiped out man and beast. "These would have been like ten thousand Tunguskas going off at once," said West, referring to a mid-air explosion over Siberia a century ago possibly caused by a fragmenting meteor. Precious rain The diamonds, gold and silver could have been ejected into the air during the blasts, West said, or they could have been carried south by rivers formed from the meltwater of liquified glaciers. For several months following the comet strike, the skies rained precious stone and metals, the researchers speculate. Diamonds drizzled down by the tons. "Some of them you couldn't see, and animals would've been breathing them in," West told LiveScience. "But other ones would clearly have been visible. They might've even hurt if they hit you." The larger diamonds were visible to the naked eye and dropped like hail stones within seconds of the blasts, West said. The smallest diamonds, the "size of cold viruses," would have lingered in the atmosphere for weeks or months, eventually wafting down to Earth like expensive snowflakes. Killed man and beast Flaming fragments of the comet crashing to Earth sparked forests fires around the globe, West contends. The intense heat from the blasts set the very air on fire. North America's grassland, the furs of animals, the hair and clothing of humans - all would have been set ablaze. West and his colleagues have proposed that the comet strike contributed to the extinction of several species of North American megafauna, including mammoths and mastodons, and led to the early demise of the Clovis culture, a Stone Age people who had only recently immigrated to the continent. The multiple airbursts might have also caused large amounts of fresh water to be dumped into the Atlantic Ocean, temporarily disrupting currents and prompting a sudden global cold snap called the Younger Dryas period. "The kind of evidence we are finding does suggest that climate change at the end of the last Ice Age was the result of a catastrophic event," said study team member Ken Tankersley, an anthropologist at the University of Cincinnati. While the discoveries in Ohio and Indiana are consistent with the theory of a comet colliding with Earth during the last Ice Age, West cautions that it is not a "smoking gun." "We're a long way from saying categorically that these things got here because of this event," West said. "They're consistent, but we've got a lot more work to do to show there's a direct connection." The researchers are preparing to submit their research to a scientific journal. Copyright ? 2008 Imaginova Corp. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed. ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From cynapse at charter.net Tue Jul 8 02:13:56 2008 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2008 02:13:56 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] More golden showers In-Reply-To: <084201c8e0bf$893eaaa0$2346e146@ATARIENGINE> References: <084201c8e0bf$893eaaa0$2346e146@ATARIENGINE> Message-ID: On Tue, 8 Jul 2008 00:57:41 -0500, you wrote: > > FOR MONTHS? Diamonds and gold rained from >the sky for MONTHS? As dust, they explain -- diamond >dust and presumably gold dust. I wonder how many tens >of thousands of tons of diamonds they think were laying >around on the Canadian tundra? No, see, the initial compressed air leading the comet instantly crushed the mammoths (which were made up largely of carbon) into diamonds! Then, the strike scattered them everywhere! (Hm. Better shut up before this theory shows up in the next press release). From mark.ford at ssl.gb.com Tue Jul 8 05:28:36 2008 From: mark.ford at ssl.gb.com (Mark Ford) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 10:28:36 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] More golden showers In-Reply-To: <084201c8e0bf$893eaaa0$2346e146@ATARIENGINE> References: <084201c8e0bf$893eaaa0$2346e146@ATARIENGINE> Message-ID: <29A9DB45B84970458190D7D39BD42C4934F71C@gamma.ssl.atw> Agreed it truly is getting more bizarre by the day. Given that there are hundreds of thousands maybe even millions of tons of rock per every diamond, we would have a serious transport of MAJOR debris, beyond anything ever known,- or are they claiming the gold and diamonds (and silver) where somehow sorted out from the cheaper material... or maybe perchance the key detail is the phrase "[retired] geophysicist Allen West, who was involved in the study"... ;)lol .. Just doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Mark -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Sterling K. Webb Sent: 08 July 2008 06:58 To: cynapse at charter.net; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] More golden showers Hi, Darren, List, Please note that the first press release said that the discovery disproved the "now discredited" theory of glacial transport. A few days later, they say: "diamonds, gold and silver could have been ejected into the air during the blasts, West said, or they could have been carried south by rivers formed from the meltwater of liquified glaciers." Change your tune much? Note also that they specify a magnitude for the blast of 300,000 megatons. This would require an impactor of 1000 to 1300 meters in diameter (more for a comet) and would produce a 20-kilometer crater. They say a 5000 meter comet, for good measure. Even better is this assertion: "For several months following the comet strike, the skies rained precious stone and metals, the researchers speculate. Diamonds drizzled down by the tons." FOR MONTHS? Diamonds and gold rained from the sky for MONTHS? As dust, they explain -- diamond dust and presumably gold dust. I wonder how many tens of thousands of tons of diamonds they think were laying around on the Canadian tundra? One easily testable assertion of their scheme is these massive floods of glacial meltwaters at precisely 12,900 years ago EVERYWHERE in the northern tier of states, entirely at the same instant, from the Atlantic to the Pacific. Since glacial melt chronology has been worked out in great detail over a century, there should be some sign of this massive melt they speak of. (PS: they're isn't any.) While in one place, they speak of a "three-mile comet," elsewhere in the press release, they speak of "the multiple airbursts..." Always good to have a couple of different stories going, I guess. This just gets more entertaining by the day... Sterling K. Webb ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darren Garrison" To: Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 11:36 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] More golden showers http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,377449,00.html Diamonds May Have Rained Down From Space During Ice Age Monday , July 07, 2008 By Ker Than LS ADVERTISEMENT Diamonds and precious metals found in the eastern United States might have rained down during the last Ice Age after a comet shattered over Canada and set North America ablaze, all leading to a mass die-off of animals and humans. New chemical analyses of diamond, gold and silver found in Ohio and Indiana reveal the minerals were transported there from Canada several thousand years ago. The question is, how? "There are no gold mines or silver mines in Ohio that anyone knows of, but there are plenty of them in Canada," said retired geophysicist Allen West, who was involved in the study. The discovery is consistent with a theory proposed by West and colleagues that a 3-mile-wide comet splintered over glaciers and ice sheets in eastern Canada about 12,900 years ago and wiped out man and beast. "These would have been like ten thousand Tunguskas going off at once," said West, referring to a mid-air explosion over Siberia a century ago possibly caused by a fragmenting meteor. Precious rain The diamonds, gold and silver could have been ejected into the air during the blasts, West said, or they could have been carried south by rivers formed from the meltwater of liquified glaciers. For several months following the comet strike, the skies rained precious stone and metals, the researchers speculate. Diamonds drizzled down by the tons. "Some of them you couldn't see, and animals would've been breathing them in," West told LiveScience. "But other ones would clearly have been visible. They might've even hurt if they hit you." The larger diamonds were visible to the naked eye and dropped like hail stones within seconds of the blasts, West said. The smallest diamonds, the "size of cold viruses," would have lingered in the atmosphere for weeks or months, eventually wafting down to Earth like expensive snowflakes. Killed man and beast Flaming fragments of the comet crashing to Earth sparked forests fires around the globe, West contends. The intense heat from the blasts set the very air on fire. North America's grassland, the furs of animals, the hair and clothing of humans - all would have been set ablaze. West and his colleagues have proposed that the comet strike contributed to the extinction of several species of North American megafauna, including mammoths and mastodons, and led to the early demise of the Clovis culture, a Stone Age people who had only recently immigrated to the continent. The multiple airbursts might have also caused large amounts of fresh water to be dumped into the Atlantic Ocean, temporarily disrupting currents and prompting a sudden global cold snap called the Younger Dryas period. "The kind of evidence we are finding does suggest that climate change at the end of the last Ice Age was the result of a catastrophic event," said study team member Ken Tankersley, an anthropologist at the University of Cincinnati. While the discoveries in Ohio and Indiana are consistent with the theory of a comet colliding with Earth during the last Ice Age, West cautions that it is not a "smoking gun." "We're a long way from saying categorically that these things got here because of this event," West said. "They're consistent, but we've got a lot more work to do to show there's a direct connection." The researchers are preparing to submit their research to a scientific journal. Copyright (c) 2008 Imaginova Corp. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed. ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us. Email info at ssl.gb.com. You should not copy or use this email or attachment(s) for any purpose nor disclose their contents to any other person. GENERAL STATEMENT: Southern Scientific Ltd's computer systems may be monitored and communications carried on them recorded, to secure the effective operation of the system and for other lawful purposes. Registered address Rectory Farm Rd, Sompting, Lancing, W Sussex BN15 0DP. Company No 1800317 From michael at spacerocksinc.com Tue Jul 8 07:33:06 2008 From: michael at spacerocksinc.com (Michael Johnson) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 04:33:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - July 8, 2008 Message-ID: <4102494.301871215516786805.JavaMail.root@mbs6.homesteadmail.com> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/July_8_2008.html From psc2410xi at yahoo.com Tue Jul 8 07:43:07 2008 From: psc2410xi at yahoo.com (Don Rawlings) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 04:43:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] More golden showers In-Reply-To: <084201c8e0bf$893eaaa0$2346e146@ATARIENGINE> Message-ID: <422077.70532.qm@web59302.mail.re1.yahoo.com> All the postings to this thread ended up in my spam folder. Don't you think a better choice for a subject line would have been better. GOLDEN SHOWERS? LOL Don Rawlings --- On Tue, 7/8/08, Sterling K. Webb wrote: > From: Sterling K. Webb > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] More golden showers > To: cynapse at charter.net, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Tuesday, July 8, 2008, 1:57 AM > Hi, Darren, List, > > Please note that the first press release said > that the discovery disproved the "now > discredited" > theory of glacial transport. A few days later, they say: > "diamonds, gold and silver could have been ejected > into the air during the blasts, West said, or they could > have been carried south by rivers formed from the > meltwater of liquified glaciers." > > Change your tune much? > > Note also that they specify a magnitude for the > blast of 300,000 megatons. This would require an > impactor of 1000 to 1300 meters in diameter (more > for a comet) and would produce a 20-kilometer crater. > They say a 5000 meter comet, for good measure. > > Even better is this assertion: "For several months > following the comet strike, the skies rained precious > stone and metals, the researchers speculate. Diamonds > drizzled down by the tons." > > FOR MONTHS? Diamonds and gold rained from > the sky for MONTHS? As dust, they explain -- diamond > dust and presumably gold dust. I wonder how many tens > of thousands of tons of diamonds they think were laying > around on the Canadian tundra? > > One easily testable assertion of their scheme is these > massive floods of glacial meltwaters at precisely 12,900 > years ago EVERYWHERE in the northern tier of states, > entirely at the same instant, from the Atlantic to the > Pacific. > Since glacial melt chronology has been worked out in > great detail over a century, there should be some sign > of this massive melt they speak of. (PS: they're > isn't any.) > > While in one place, they speak of a "three-mile > comet," > elsewhere in the press release, they speak of "the > multiple > airbursts..." Always good to have a couple of > different > stories going, I guess. > > This just gets more entertaining by the day... > > > Sterling K. Webb > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Darren Garrison" > > To: > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 11:36 PM > Subject: [meteorite-list] More golden showers > > > http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,377449,00.html > > Diamonds May Have Rained Down From Space During Ice Age > > Monday , July 07, 2008 > By Ker Than > > LS > ADVERTISEMENT > > Diamonds and precious metals found in the eastern United > States might have > rained down during the last Ice Age after a comet shattered > over Canada and > set > North America ablaze, all leading to a mass die-off of > animals and humans. > > New chemical analyses of diamond, gold and silver found in > Ohio and Indiana > reveal the minerals were transported there from Canada > several thousand > years > ago. The question is, how? > > "There are no gold mines or silver mines in Ohio that > anyone knows of, but > there > are plenty of them in Canada," said retired > geophysicist Allen West, who was > involved in the study. > > The discovery is consistent with a theory proposed by West > and colleagues > that a > 3-mile-wide comet splintered over glaciers and ice sheets > in eastern Canada > about 12,900 years ago and wiped out man and beast. > > "These would have been like ten thousand Tunguskas > going off at once," said > West, referring to a mid-air explosion over Siberia a > century ago possibly > caused by a fragmenting meteor. > > Precious rain > > The diamonds, gold and silver could have been ejected into > the air during > the > blasts, West said, or they could have been carried south by > rivers formed > from > the meltwater of liquified glaciers. > > For several months following the comet strike, the skies > rained precious > stone > and metals, the researchers speculate. Diamonds drizzled > down by the tons. > > "Some of them you couldn't see, and animals > would've been breathing them > in," > West told LiveScience. "But other ones would clearly > have been visible. They > might've even hurt if they hit you." > > The larger diamonds were visible to the naked eye and > dropped like hail > stones > within seconds of the blasts, West said. > > The smallest diamonds, the "size of cold > viruses," would have lingered in > the > atmosphere for weeks or months, eventually wafting down to > Earth like > expensive > snowflakes. > > Killed man and beast > > Flaming fragments of the comet crashing to Earth sparked > forests fires > around > the globe, West contends. > > The intense heat from the blasts set the very air on fire. > North America's > grassland, the furs of animals, the hair and clothing of > humans - all would > have > been set ablaze. > > West and his colleagues have proposed that the comet strike > contributed to > the > extinction of several species of North American megafauna, > including > mammoths > and mastodons, and led to the early demise of the Clovis > culture, a Stone > Age > people who had only recently immigrated to the continent. > > The multiple airbursts might have also caused large amounts > of fresh water > to be > dumped into the Atlantic Ocean, temporarily disrupting > currents and > prompting a > sudden global cold snap called the Younger Dryas period. > > "The kind of evidence we are finding does suggest that > climate change at the > end > of the last Ice Age was the result of a catastrophic > event," said study team > member Ken Tankersley, an anthropologist at the University > of Cincinnati. > > While the discoveries in Ohio and Indiana are consistent > with the theory of > a > comet colliding with Earth during the last Ice Age, West > cautions that it is > not > a "smoking gun." > > "We're a long way from saying categorically that > these things got here > because > of this event," West said. "They're > consistent, but we've got a lot more > work to > do to show there's a direct connection." > > The researchers are preparing to submit their research to a > scientific > journal. > > Copyright ? 2008 Imaginova Corp. All Rights Reserved. This > material may not > be > published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed. > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From LITIG8NSHARK at aol.com Tue Jul 8 08:46:58 2008 From: LITIG8NSHARK at aol.com (LITIG8NSHARK at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 08:46:58 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] More golden showers Message-ID: Good day Folks, Sounds to me like a modern day version of 'Chicken Little': Amusing and something to perhaps keep a 4 year old's interest at bedtime; but hardly believable. Best Regards, Paul Martyn Savannah, GA In a message dated 7/8/2008 2:09:56 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net writes: Hi, Darren, List, Please note that the first press release said that the discovery disproved the "now discredited" theory of glacial transport. A few days later, they say: "diamonds, gold and silver could have been ejected into the air during the blasts, West said, or they could have been carried south by rivers formed from the meltwater of liquified glaciers." Change your tune much? Note also that they specify a magnitude for the blast of 300,000 megatons. This would require an impactor of 1000 to 1300 meters in diameter (more for a comet) and would produce a 20-kilometer crater. They say a 5000 meter comet, for good measure. Even better is this assertion: "For several months following the comet strike, the skies rained precious stone and metals, the researchers speculate. Diamonds drizzled down by the tons." FOR MONTHS? Diamonds and gold rained from the sky for MONTHS? As dust, they explain -- diamond dust and presumably gold dust. I wonder how many tens of thousands of tons of diamonds they think were laying around on the Canadian tundra? One easily testable assertion of their scheme is these massive floods of glacial meltwaters at precisely 12,900 years ago EVERYWHERE in the northern tier of states, entirely at the same instant, from the Atlantic to the Pacific. Since glacial melt chronology has been worked out in great detail over a century, there should be some sign of this massive melt they speak of. (PS: they're isn't any.) While in one place, they speak of a "three-mile comet," elsewhere in the press release, they speak of "the multiple airbursts..." Always good to have a couple of different stories going, I guess. This just gets more entertaining by the day... Sterling K. Webb ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darren Garrison" To: Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 11:36 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] More golden showers http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,377449,00.html Diamonds May Have Rained Down From Space During Ice Age **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) From meteoritemall at yahoo.com Tue Jul 8 10:01:18 2008 From: meteoritemall at yahoo.com (Ruben Garcia) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 07:01:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Canyon Diablo Meteorites for sale. Message-ID: <691224.12818.qm@web32507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi all, A few more Canyon Diablo Meteorites for sale. One lot and a few small individuals. Canyon Diablo for sale http://www.mr-meteorite.com/canyondiablo4sale.htm Ruben Garcia Phoenix, Arizona http://www.mr-meteorite.com http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=meteorfright&p=v From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Tue Jul 8 10:27:42 2008 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 07:27:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Sparkly rain In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <237907.49322.qm@web33105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> This is one of the most idiotic things I have ever read. Did the impact throw fish in the air too? I wonder if that is how trout ended up in every lake in Arizona? Michael Farmer --- On Mon, 7/7/08, Darren Garrison wrote: > From: Darren Garrison > Subject: [meteorite-list] More golden showers > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Monday, July 7, 2008, 10:36 PM > http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,377449,00.html > > Diamonds May Have Rained Down From Space During Ice Age > > Monday , July 07, 2008 > By Ker Than > > LS > ADVERTISEMENT > > Diamonds and precious metals found in the eastern United > States might have > rained down during the last Ice Age after a comet shattered > over Canada and set > North America ablaze, all leading to a mass die-off of > animals and humans. > > New chemical analyses of diamond, gold and silver found in > Ohio and Indiana > reveal the minerals were transported there from Canada > several thousand years > ago. The question is, how? > > "There are no gold mines or silver mines in Ohio that > anyone knows of, but there > are plenty of them in Canada," said retired > geophysicist Allen West, who was > involved in the study. > > The discovery is consistent with a theory proposed by West > and colleagues that a > 3-mile-wide comet splintered over glaciers and ice sheets > in eastern Canada > about 12,900 years ago and wiped out man and beast. > > "These would have been like ten thousand Tunguskas > going off at once," said > West, referring to a mid-air explosion over Siberia a > century ago possibly > caused by a fragmenting meteor. > > Precious rain > > The diamonds, gold and silver could have been ejected into > the air during the > blasts, West said, or they could have been carried south by > rivers formed from > the meltwater of liquified glaciers. > > For several months following the comet strike, the skies > rained precious stone > and metals, the researchers speculate. Diamonds drizzled > down by the tons. > > "Some of them you couldn't see, and animals > would've been breathing them in," > West told LiveScience. "But other ones would clearly > have been visible. They > might've even hurt if they hit you." > > The larger diamonds were visible to the naked eye and > dropped like hail stones > within seconds of the blasts, West said. > > The smallest diamonds, the "size of cold > viruses," would have lingered in the > atmosphere for weeks or months, eventually wafting down to > Earth like expensive > snowflakes. > > Killed man and beast > > Flaming fragments of the comet crashing to Earth sparked > forests fires around > the globe, West contends. > > The intense heat from the blasts set the very air on fire. > North America's > grassland, the furs of animals, the hair and clothing of > humans ? all would have > been set ablaze. > > West and his colleagues have proposed that the comet strike > contributed to the > extinction of several species of North American megafauna, > including mammoths > and mastodons, and led to the early demise of the Clovis > culture, a Stone Age > people who had only recently immigrated to the continent. > > The multiple airbursts might have also caused large amounts > of fresh water to be > dumped into the Atlantic Ocean, temporarily disrupting > currents and prompting a > sudden global cold snap called the Younger Dryas period. > > "The kind of evidence we are finding does suggest that > climate change at the end > of the last Ice Age was the result of a catastrophic > event," said study team > member Ken Tankersley, an anthropologist at the University > of Cincinnati. > > While the discoveries in Ohio and Indiana are consistent > with the theory of a > comet colliding with Earth during the last Ice Age, West > cautions that it is not > a "smoking gun." > > "We're a long way from saying categorically that > these things got here because > of this event," West said. "They're > consistent, but we've got a lot more work to > do to show there's a direct connection." > > The researchers are preparing to submit their research to a > scientific journal. > > Copyright ? 2008 Imaginova Corp. All Rights Reserved. This > material may not be > published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed. > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From pshugar at clearwire.net Tue Jul 8 11:11:06 2008 From: pshugar at clearwire.net (Pete Shugar) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 10:11:06 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] More golden showers References: <084201c8e0bf$893eaaa0$2346e146@ATARIENGINE> Message-ID: <002c01c8e10c$db64e9a0$0201a8c0@laptop> It seems the only thing not mentioned wassome hillbilly trying to shoot a possum, missinng and then up from the ground came bubbling crude, black gold, oil, that is. Taking a clue from Darren, I better hush up. Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sterling K. Webb" To: ; Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 12:57 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] More golden showers > Hi, Darren, List, > > Please note that the first press release said > that the discovery disproved the "now discredited" > theory of glacial transport. A few days later, they say: > "diamonds, gold and silver could have been ejected > into the air during the blasts, West said, or they could > have been carried south by rivers formed from the > meltwater of liquified glaciers." > > Change your tune much? > > Note also that they specify a magnitude for the > blast of 300,000 megatons. This would require an > impactor of 1000 to 1300 meters in diameter (more > for a comet) and would produce a 20-kilometer crater. > They say a 5000 meter comet, for good measure. > > Even better is this assertion: "For several months > following the comet strike, the skies rained precious > stone and metals, the researchers speculate. Diamonds > drizzled down by the tons." > > FOR MONTHS? Diamonds and gold rained from > the sky for MONTHS? As dust, they explain -- diamond > dust and presumably gold dust. I wonder how many tens > of thousands of tons of diamonds they think were laying > around on the Canadian tundra? > > One easily testable assertion of their scheme is these > massive floods of glacial meltwaters at precisely 12,900 > years ago EVERYWHERE in the northern tier of states, > entirely at the same instant, from the Atlantic to the Pacific. > Since glacial melt chronology has been worked out in > great detail over a century, there should be some sign > of this massive melt they speak of. (PS: they're isn't any.) > > While in one place, they speak of a "three-mile comet," > elsewhere in the press release, they speak of "the multiple > airbursts..." Always good to have a couple of different > stories going, I guess. > > This just gets more entertaining by the day... > > > Sterling K. Webb > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Darren Garrison" > To: > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 11:36 PM > Subject: [meteorite-list] More golden showers > > > http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,377449,00.html > > Diamonds May Have Rained Down From Space During Ice Age > > Monday , July 07, 2008 > By Ker Than > > LS > ADVERTISEMENT > > Diamonds and precious metals found in the eastern United States might have > rained down during the last Ice Age after a comet shattered over Canada > and > set > North America ablaze, all leading to a mass die-off of animals and humans. > > New chemical analyses of diamond, gold and silver found in Ohio and > Indiana > reveal the minerals were transported there from Canada several thousand > years > ago. The question is, how? > > "There are no gold mines or silver mines in Ohio that anyone knows of, but > there > are plenty of them in Canada," said retired geophysicist Allen West, who > was > involved in the study. > > The discovery is consistent with a theory proposed by West and colleagues > that a > 3-mile-wide comet splintered over glaciers and ice sheets in eastern > Canada > about 12,900 years ago and wiped out man and beast. > > "These would have been like ten thousand Tunguskas going off at once," > said > West, referring to a mid-air explosion over Siberia a century ago possibly > caused by a fragmenting meteor. > > Precious rain > > The diamonds, gold and silver could have been ejected into the air during > the > blasts, West said, or they could have been carried south by rivers formed > from > the meltwater of liquified glaciers. > > For several months following the comet strike, the skies rained precious > stone > and metals, the researchers speculate. Diamonds drizzled down by the tons. > > "Some of them you couldn't see, and animals would've been breathing them > in," > West told LiveScience. "But other ones would clearly have been visible. > They > might've even hurt if they hit you." > > The larger diamonds were visible to the naked eye and dropped like hail > stones > within seconds of the blasts, West said. > > The smallest diamonds, the "size of cold viruses," would have lingered in > the > atmosphere for weeks or months, eventually wafting down to Earth like > expensive > snowflakes. > > Killed man and beast > > Flaming fragments of the comet crashing to Earth sparked forests fires > around > the globe, West contends. > > The intense heat from the blasts set the very air on fire. North America's > grassland, the furs of animals, the hair and clothing of humans - all > would > have > been set ablaze. > > West and his colleagues have proposed that the comet strike contributed to > the > extinction of several species of North American megafauna, including > mammoths > and mastodons, and led to the early demise of the Clovis culture, a Stone > Age > people who had only recently immigrated to the continent. > > The multiple airbursts might have also caused large amounts of fresh water > to be > dumped into the Atlantic Ocean, temporarily disrupting currents and > prompting a > sudden global cold snap called the Younger Dryas period. > > "The kind of evidence we are finding does suggest that climate change at > the > end > of the last Ice Age was the result of a catastrophic event," said study > team > member Ken Tankersley, an anthropologist at the University of Cincinnati. > > While the discoveries in Ohio and Indiana are consistent with the theory > of > a > comet colliding with Earth during the last Ice Age, West cautions that it > is > not > a "smoking gun." > > "We're a long way from saying categorically that these things got here > because > of this event," West said. "They're consistent, but we've got a lot more > work to > do to show there's a direct connection." > > The researchers are preparing to submit their research to a scientific > journal. > > Copyright ? 2008 Imaginova Corp. All Rights Reserved. This material may > not > be > published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed. > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu Tue Jul 8 12:17:43 2008 From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu (lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 09:17:43 -0700 (MST) Subject: [meteorite-list] More golden showers In-Reply-To: <002c01c8e10c$db64e9a0$0201a8c0@laptop> References: <084201c8e0bf$893eaaa0$2346e146@ATARIENGINE> <002c01c8e10c$db64e9a0$0201a8c0@laptop> Message-ID: <49229.71.226.60.25.1215533863.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> You forgot Texas Tea! Larry On Tue, July 8, 2008 8:11 am, Pete Shugar wrote: > It seems the only thing not mentioned wassome hillbilly trying to > shoot a possum, missinng and then up from the ground came bubbling > crude, black gold, oil, that is. Taking a clue from Darren, I better hush > up. Pete > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sterling K. Webb" > To: ; > Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 12:57 AM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] More golden showers > > > >> Hi, Darren, List, >> >> >> Please note that the first press release said >> that the discovery disproved the "now discredited" theory of glacial >> transport. A few days later, they say: "diamonds, gold and silver could >> have been ejected into the air during the blasts, West said, or they >> could have been carried south by rivers formed from the meltwater of >> liquified glaciers." >> >> Change your tune much? >> >> >> Note also that they specify a magnitude for the >> blast of 300,000 megatons. This would require an impactor of 1000 to 1300 >> meters in diameter (more for a comet) and would produce a 20-kilometer >> crater. They say a 5000 meter comet, for good measure. >> >> >> Even better is this assertion: "For several months >> following the comet strike, the skies rained precious stone and metals, >> the researchers speculate. Diamonds drizzled down by the tons." >> >> FOR MONTHS? Diamonds and gold rained from >> the sky for MONTHS? As dust, they explain -- diamond dust and presumably >> gold dust. I wonder how many tens of thousands of tons of diamonds they >> think were laying around on the Canadian tundra? >> >> One easily testable assertion of their scheme is these >> massive floods of glacial meltwaters at precisely 12,900 years ago >> EVERYWHERE in the northern tier of states, >> entirely at the same instant, from the Atlantic to the Pacific. Since >> glacial melt chronology has been worked out in great detail over a >> century, there should be some sign of this massive melt they speak of. >> (PS: they're isn't any.) >> >> >> While in one place, they speak of a "three-mile comet," >> elsewhere in the press release, they speak of "the multiple airbursts..." >> Always good to have a couple of different >> stories going, I guess. >> >> This just gets more entertaining by the day... >> >> >> >> Sterling K. Webb >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> ---- >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Darren Garrison" >> To: >> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 11:36 PM >> Subject: [meteorite-list] More golden showers >> >> >> >> http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,377449,00.html >> >> >> Diamonds May Have Rained Down From Space During Ice Age >> >> >> Monday , July 07, 2008 >> By Ker Than >> >> >> LS >> ADVERTISEMENT >> >> >> Diamonds and precious metals found in the eastern United States might >> have rained down during the last Ice Age after a comet shattered over >> Canada >> and set North America ablaze, all leading to a mass die-off of animals and >> humans. >> >> New chemical analyses of diamond, gold and silver found in Ohio and >> Indiana >> reveal the minerals were transported there from Canada several thousand >> years ago. The question is, how? >> >> "There are no gold mines or silver mines in Ohio that anyone knows of, >> but there are plenty of them in Canada," said retired geophysicist Allen >> West, who >> was involved in the study. >> >> The discovery is consistent with a theory proposed by West and >> colleagues that a 3-mile-wide comet splintered over glaciers and ice >> sheets in eastern Canada >> about 12,900 years ago and wiped out man and beast. >> >> "These would have been like ten thousand Tunguskas going off at once," >> said West, referring to a mid-air explosion over Siberia a century ago >> possibly caused by a fragmenting meteor. >> >> Precious rain >> >> >> The diamonds, gold and silver could have been ejected into the air >> during the blasts, West said, or they could have been carried south by >> rivers formed from the meltwater of liquified glaciers. >> >> For several months following the comet strike, the skies rained >> precious stone and metals, the researchers speculate. Diamonds drizzled >> down by the tons. >> >> "Some of them you couldn't see, and animals would've been breathing >> them in," West told LiveScience. "But other ones would clearly have been >> visible. They >> might've even hurt if they hit you." >> >> The larger diamonds were visible to the naked eye and dropped like hail >> stones within seconds of the blasts, West said. >> >> The smallest diamonds, the "size of cold viruses," would have lingered >> in the atmosphere for weeks or months, eventually wafting down to Earth >> like expensive snowflakes. >> >> Killed man and beast >> >> >> Flaming fragments of the comet crashing to Earth sparked forests fires >> around the globe, West contends. >> >> The intense heat from the blasts set the very air on fire. North >> America's >> grassland, the furs of animals, the hair and clothing of humans - all >> would have been set ablaze. >> >> West and his colleagues have proposed that the comet strike contributed >> to the extinction of several species of North American megafauna, >> including mammoths and mastodons, and led to the early demise of the >> Clovis culture, a Stone >> Age >> people who had only recently immigrated to the continent. >> >> The multiple airbursts might have also caused large amounts of fresh >> water to be dumped into the Atlantic Ocean, temporarily disrupting >> currents and prompting a sudden global cold snap called the Younger Dryas >> period. >> >> "The kind of evidence we are finding does suggest that climate change >> at the end of the last Ice Age was the result of a catastrophic event," >> said study team member Ken Tankersley, an anthropologist at the >> University of Cincinnati. >> >> >> While the discoveries in Ohio and Indiana are consistent with the >> theory of a comet colliding with Earth during the last Ice Age, West >> cautions that it is not a "smoking gun." >> >> "We're a long way from saying categorically that these things got here >> because of this event," West said. "They're consistent, but we've got a >> lot more work to do to show there's a direct connection." >> >> The researchers are preparing to submit their research to a scientific >> journal. >> >> Copyright ? 2008 Imaginova Corp. All Rights Reserved. This material may >> not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed. >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Tue Jul 8 12:54:15 2008 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 08 Jul 2008 16:54:15 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] RFS Picture - July 07, 2008: Phil Morgan's Flyer #2 Message-ID: Mr and Mrs H.H. Nininger once wrote: "You will see these strange meteorites" Let me continue with #2: "A portion of another that fell through a barn in Wisconsin 5 years earlier" That's K i l b o u r n, a gas-rich H5 chondrite, which fell through the roof to the floor of a barn after detonations penetrating two hemlock boards. TKW 772 gr. Cheers, Bernd From meteoritemall at yahoo.com Tue Jul 8 14:00:47 2008 From: meteoritemall at yahoo.com (Ruben Garcia) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 11:00:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Canyon Diablo Meteorites for sale. In-Reply-To: <691224.12818.qm@web32507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <637382.17472.qm@web32501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> All Canyon Diablo is sold. Thanks! Ruben Garcia Phoenix, Arizona http://www.mr-meteorite.com http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=meteorfright&p=v --- On Tue, 7/8/08, Ruben Garcia wrote: > From: Ruben Garcia > Subject: [meteorite-list] Canyon Diablo Meteorites for sale. > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Tuesday, July 8, 2008, 7:01 AM > Hi all, > A few more Canyon Diablo Meteorites for sale. One lot and a > few small individuals. > > Canyon Diablo for sale > http://www.mr-meteorite.com/canyondiablo4sale.htm > > > > Ruben Garcia > Phoenix, Arizona > http://www.mr-meteorite.com > http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=meteorfright&p=v > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From epgrondine at yahoo.com Tue Jul 8 14:04:21 2008 From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 11:04:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Camp Verde Message-ID: <53839.93732.qm@web36905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello everyone - Some info and some questions. The feather blankets were extremely difficult to make, and of high value. One important point is exactly what feathers were used to make them - If they were parrot feathers imported from Mexico, then its value would have been very very very high. Eagle feathers were also of very high value. And then so on down the list of feathers... My first guess is that Eagle feathers might have been used. Perhaps the meteorite was seen as the result of a sky battle between Thunderbird and Unktena, sky serpents, or perhaps it was viewed as an offspring of Mother Earth returning home. Answering this is depth would require some study, and resources well beyond me right now. The Camp Verde meteorite is presented as a transport from Canyon Diablo, but might it not be an outlying fragment? If so, then this has important implications for current hunting. Was there a stream, an air burst, or did larger fragments survive the impact blast in lenses and be ejected? Or was Camp Verde a separate fall? Using the C14 spike from Incal 98, the Barringer impact may be seen around 44,000 BCE, if memory serves. While the mountains north of Flagstaff were undoubtedly one of the earliest sites settled, with their permanent and abundant water supply in the snow cap and abundant game on the Little Colorado River nearby, and the C mitochondrial DNA crossing is now likely to have occurred shortly before that date, that the Canyon Diablo impact was seen and remembered does not seem likely to me. It is up to the Zuni, Hopi, and Navajo elders to share what they want to share about other observed impacts and the ancient ones. "The structure on the mesa" - I don't know if this was a regular dwelling, or perhaps more likely one of the southwest's observatory structures, with windows centered on astronomical events. I wonder what happened to the site? Where is the Camp Verde meteorite today? Perhaps the best place for its display would be at "Montezeuma's Castle", the public site nearby. In any case, in my opinion the Camp Verde site and meteorite is the patrimony of all Arizonans, including those of Native American descent. E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas From rockhoundm at abaconet.com.ar Tue Jul 8 13:52:35 2008 From: rockhoundm at abaconet.com.ar (Eduardo.) Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2008 14:52:35 -0300 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad- ebay auction ending in 2 days In-Reply-To: <8CA9F1DC9727925-18C-3319@webmail-de19.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Hi After some time of reorganization I've 40 auctions ending in 2 days. ALL started at $0.99 and none have reserve so go and check them. Please note that my NEW e-bay name is SMFMETEORITES, although all the feedback that most of you left when it was meteorites.com is still there. just look for seller smfmeteorites of following this link: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZsmfmeteoritesQQfrppZ50QQfsopZ32QQfsooZ2Q QrdZ0 thanks for stop by Eduardo IMCA member 0645 www.smf.com.ar From epgrondine at yahoo.com Tue Jul 8 14:44:50 2008 From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 11:44:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Ohio and Indiana gold, silver, and diamonds Message-ID: <825741.33765.qm@web36906.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello everyone - I did not cover "Hopewell" silver and gold trade in my book, as the items were rare and there are multiple small deposits throughout eastern North America to account for them. I have been driving through this area (Greenville to Cincinatti) on my way to and from powwow, and I don't know if what I have learned will be of any value, but here goes. What this team seems to have found is gold, sliver, and diamond deposits sourced from Canada, and dated ca 10,900 BCE. I think the edge of the glacial maximum is well known to be north, so they are left looking for a transport mechanism. Obviously they know nothing of the mechanics of hyper velocity impact - it is frustrating that Dr. Peiser and has taken the Cambridge Conference and his abilities in other directions, and the Holocene Impact Working Group does not seem to have found these folks yet. There are two main streams running north to south through the region. One is 7 mile Creek, the other the Whitewater River. There was extensive later occupation along the Whitewater, with major complexes near Richmond, Indiana from the archaic on. Sterling, that appears to be your melt channels. The timing the team seems to have, but the cause?... Among the Europeans at the time of conquest there were extensive rumors of Shawnee silver, source unknown. These rumors have fascinated local people for a long time. In the "Treaty" of Vinceennes, Benjamin Henry Harrison even reserved a piece of land on the Vermillion River off of the Wabash which he thought was the silver source. I had thought that the silver came from DeSoto's expedition, as they placed small silver crosses on the foreheads of "friendly" Natives to distinguish them from enemy peoples in battle. Perhaps these deposits may explain De Soto's routes and activities, but who knows? Much later, French traders brought in small crosses and other trinkets. In closing, in as much as the exploration of recent impact sites is a new field of science, could I ask you to keep your comments civil? E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Tue Jul 8 14:53:18 2008 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 08 Jul 2008 18:53:18 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] Camp Verde Message-ID: E.P. Grondine inquired: "Or was Camp Verde a separate fall?" According to Buchwald* it is "probably safe to conclude that Camp Verde is a man-transported Canyon Diablo fragment" because "Wasson (1968) and Moore et al. (1969) have found chemical identity to Canyon Diablo." E.P. Grondine also inquired: "Where is the Camp Verde meteorite today?" If it still is where it was when Buchwald* wrote his comments, the main mass of 58.3 kg should be in Tempe *BUCHWALD V.F. (1975) Handbook of Iron Meteorites, Volume 2, pp. 400+401. Cheers, Bernd From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Tue Jul 8 17:37:05 2008 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 16:37:05 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ohio and Indiana gold, silver, and diamonds References: <825741.33765.qm@web36906.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <08a701c8e142$c4b4bf10$2346e146@ATARIENGINE> Hi, EP, List, EP wrote: > I think the edge of the glacial maximum is > well known to be north, so they are left looking > for a transport mechanism. I will just quote from my Post of 07-03-08: The drainage basin of the Ohio river shows plentiful evidence of this. There are glacial deposits in Kentucky, which is further south than Ohio (in case they haven't looked south across the river from Cincinnati lately). http://books.google.com/books?id=8eFSK4o--M0C&pg=PA376&lpg=PA376&dq=southernmost+glacial+erratic+US&source=web&ots=2NcIEXv_S_&sig=IGLmBdjw-oyZJUteovXiSv-FagA&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=4&ct=result (* The Kentucky glacial deposits are from an earlier glaciation, not the Laurentide, but who knows when the diamonds were deposited?) In ruling out glacial transport of diamonds, it is necessary to rule out ALL glacial transport from Canada at any Pleistocene time unless you have an in situ datable deposit ready to read. The last glaciation was just that: the LAST one. There have been four major ones over the last two million years. It's all recent history. Speaking of recent history, let's talk about meltwater (they do). "Meltwater" means the Great Lakes. Before the glaciation, they were a nice big Rift Valley, like in Africa. Here's a dated graphic of the Great Lakes growth and the glaciers shrinkage history in relation to size of lakes and position of the Ice Cap: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Glacial_lakes.jpg and another with the retreat in detail (third map down page): http://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/EarthSC202Notes/GLACgeog.HTM You'll notice the ice didn't just "vanish." It retreated. It took a long time doing it. The retreat is easily datable at thousands of sites along the retreat. You'll note there's no great, sudden flood, Noah, baby! There's another problem with this imaginary reconstruction of the end of the Ice Age. I pointed out in a previous Post that the Amazonian Rain Forest is NOT an ancient, primeval feature but a Post-Glacial Development. The modern Earth has many mighty continent-spanning features we think of as ancient and primeval but that are only more Glacial or Post-Glacial Developments, like the Sahara Desert and -- most important here -- the Mississippi River and the ENTIRE drainage system of the Americn Midwest. Before the Ice Age, ALL the rivers in the interior of the US, from the Rockies to the Apalachians and south to Kentucky and Missouri drained to the NORTH! They were short, meandering and sluggish because the downslope gradient was not great, but eventually most of them got to the Arctic Ocean. Tracing the ancient water courses headed north has been going on for a century; it's a great way to train grad students... There were meltwater channels coming out from under the glaciers and running south for a while, however the Ohio glacer retreated early (see the graphics in the URL's above). But from the north edge of Ohio to the Ohio River, it's all UPHILL. My experience? It's hard to persuade rivers to run uphill. Sterling K. Webb ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- Original Message ----- From: "E.P. Grondine" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 1:44 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ohio and Indiana gold, silver, and diamonds Hello everyone - I did not cover "Hopewell" silver and gold trade in my book, as the items were rare and there are multiple small deposits throughout eastern North America to account for them. I have been driving through this area (Greenville to Cincinatti) on my way to and from powwow, and I don't know if what I have learned will be of any value, but here goes. What this team seems to have found is gold, sliver, and diamond deposits sourced from Canada, and dated ca 10,900 BCE. I think the edge of the glacial maximum is well known to be north, so they are left looking for a transport mechanism. Obviously they know nothing of the mechanics of hyper velocity impact - it is frustrating that Dr. Peiser and has taken the Cambridge Conference and his abilities in other directions, and the Holocene Impact Working Group does not seem to have found these folks yet. There are two main streams running north to south through the region. One is 7 mile Creek, the other the Whitewater River. There was extensive later occupation along the Whitewater, with major complexes near Richmond, Indiana from the archaic on. Sterling, that appears to be your melt channels. The timing the team seems to have, but the cause?... Among the Europeans at the time of conquest there were extensive rumors of Shawnee silver, source unknown. These rumors have fascinated local people for a long time. In the "Treaty" of Vinceennes, Benjamin Henry Harrison even reserved a piece of land on the Vermillion River off of the Wabash which he thought was the silver source. I had thought that the silver came from DeSoto's expedition, as they placed small silver crosses on the foreheads of "friendly" Natives to distinguish them from enemy peoples in battle. Perhaps these deposits may explain De Soto's routes and activities, but who knows? Much later, French traders brought in small crosses and other trinkets. In closing, in as much as the exploration of recent impact sites is a new field of science, could I ask you to keep your comments civil? E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From epgrondine at yahoo.com Tue Jul 8 17:54:24 2008 From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 14:54:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Ohio and Indiana gold, silver, and diamonds In-Reply-To: <08a701c8e142$c4b4bf10$2346e146@ATARIENGINE> Message-ID: <154451.53805.qm@web36907.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi Sterling, all - One would hope that these professional geologists were sufficiently skilled not to misdate these deposits. We'll see... E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas --- On Tue, 7/8/08, Sterling K. Webb wrote: > From: Sterling K. Webb > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ohio and Indiana gold, silver, and diamonds > To: epgrondine at yahoo.com, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Tuesday, July 8, 2008, 5:37 PM > Hi, EP, List, > > EP wrote: > > I think the edge of the glacial maximum is > > well known to be north, so they are left looking > > for a transport mechanism. > > I will just quote from my Post of 07-03-08: > The drainage basin of the Ohio river shows plentiful > evidence of this. There are glacial deposits in Kentucky, > which is further south than Ohio (in case they haven't > looked south across the river from Cincinnati lately). > http://books.google.com/books?id=8eFSK4o--M0C&pg=PA376&lpg=PA376&dq=southernmost+glacial+erratic+US&source=web&ots=2NcIEXv_S_&sig=IGLmBdjw-oyZJUteovXiSv-FagA&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=4&ct=result > (* The Kentucky glacial deposits are from an earlier > glaciation, not the Laurentide, but who knows when the > diamonds were deposited?) > > In ruling out glacial transport of diamonds, it is > necessary > to rule out ALL glacial transport from Canada at any > Pleistocene > time unless you have an in situ datable deposit ready to > read. > The last glaciation was just that: the LAST one. There have > been four major ones over the last two million years. > > It's all recent history. > > Speaking of recent history, let's talk about > meltwater (they > do). "Meltwater" means the Great Lakes. Before > the glaciation, > they were a nice big Rift Valley, like in Africa. > Here's a dated > graphic of the Great Lakes growth and the glaciers > shrinkage > history in relation to size of lakes and position of the > Ice Cap: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Glacial_lakes.jpg > and another with the retreat in detail (third map down > page): > http://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/EarthSC202Notes/GLACgeog.HTM > > You'll notice the ice didn't just > "vanish." It retreated. It > took a long time doing it. The retreat is easily datable at > thousands of sites along the retreat. You'll note > there's no > great, sudden flood, Noah, baby! > > There's another problem with this imaginary > reconstruction > of the end of the Ice Age. I pointed out in a previous Post > that > the Amazonian Rain Forest is NOT an ancient, primeval > feature but a Post-Glacial Development. The modern Earth > has many mighty continent-spanning features we think of as > ancient and primeval but that are only more Glacial or > Post-Glacial > Developments, like the Sahara Desert and -- most important > here -- the Mississippi River and the ENTIRE drainage > system > of the Americn Midwest. > > Before the Ice Age, ALL the rivers in the interior of > the US, > from the Rockies to the Apalachians and south to Kentucky > and Missouri drained to the NORTH! They were short, > meandering and sluggish because the downslope gradient > was not great, but eventually most of them got to the > Arctic Ocean. Tracing the ancient water courses headed > north has been going on for a century; it's a great way > to > train grad students... > > There were meltwater channels coming out from under > the glaciers and running south for a while, however the > Ohio > glacer retreated early (see the graphics in the URL's > above). > But from the north edge of Ohio to the Ohio River, it's > all > UPHILL. > > My experience? It's hard to persuade rivers to run > uphill. > > > Sterling K. Webb > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "E.P. Grondine" > > To: > Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 1:44 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ohio and Indiana gold, > silver, and diamonds > > > Hello everyone - > > I did not cover "Hopewell" silver and gold trade > in my book, as the items > were rare and there are multiple small deposits throughout > eastern North > America to account for them. > > I have been driving through this area (Greenville to > Cincinatti) on my way > to and from powwow, and I don't know if what I have > learned will be of any > value, but here goes. > > What this team seems to have found is gold, sliver, and > diamond deposits > sourced from Canada, and dated ca 10,900 BCE. I think the > edge of the > glacial maximum is well known to be north, so they are left > looking for a > transport mechanism. > > Obviously they know nothing of the mechanics of hyper > velocity impact - it > is frustrating that Dr. Peiser and has taken the Cambridge > Conference and > his abilities in other directions, and the Holocene Impact > Working Group > does not seem to have found these folks yet. > > There are two main streams running north to south through > the region. One is > 7 mile Creek, the other the Whitewater River. There was > extensive later > occupation along the Whitewater, with major complexes near > Richmond, Indiana > from the archaic on. Sterling, that appears to be your melt > channels. The > timing the team seems to have, but the cause?... > > Among the Europeans at the time of conquest there were > extensive rumors of > Shawnee silver, source unknown. These rumors have > fascinated local people > for a long time. In the "Treaty" of Vinceennes, > Benjamin Henry Harrison even > reserved a piece of land on the Vermillion River off of the > Wabash which he > thought was the silver source. > > I had thought that the silver came from DeSoto's > expedition, as they placed > small silver crosses on the foreheads of > "friendly" Natives to distinguish > them from enemy peoples in battle. Perhaps these deposits > may explain De > Soto's routes and activities, but who knows? Much > later, French traders > brought in small crosses and other trinkets. > > In closing, in as much as the exploration of recent impact > sites is a new > field of science, could I ask you to keep your comments > civil? > > E.P. Grondine > Man and Impact in the Americas > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From gary at webbers.com Tue Jul 8 17:55:55 2008 From: gary at webbers.com (Gary K. Foote) Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2008 17:55:55 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] OT [sort of] - Gary Foote's Recovery Message-ID: <4873AA2B.16989.1FB436@gary.webbers.com> Dear Metorite Fans, My name is CJ Foote. I am writing from Gary's computer because that is where this list's address is. I know that sometime early this year Gary posted here urging everyone to have a PSA test for prostate cancer... well, the men anyway. :) Gary's road to recovery from his prostatectomy has not been a good one. He had surgery on April 29th and, due to complications that have had his health going downhill every day for the last month and a half, he can now only lie on one side, stand for no more than five minutes at a time and cannot sit at all. He is in constant pain and we will be going for emergency exploratory at Dartmouth Hitchcock surgery Thursday to find out what went wrong and hopefully correct it. I am telling you this because we have come to the end of our rope. Our business is destroyed and we are now selling all of Gary's meteorites to help pay bills [We've already sold pretty much everything else already] , despite his pride in being a member of I.M.C.A. and all of the good conversations and friends he has had made here. I can't find a catalog of his collection but most of it is bagged and tagged, so it shouldn't be hard to put one together. Unfortunately I know nothing about prices [Should I auction? Sell directly?, etc.] and Gary is so sedated he doesn't even know what day of the week it is. A good day for him is 1-2 hours of being lucid while the rest of his days are spent in bed or the bathroom. I know Gary's collection is not spectacular, but it is what we have and we will use all of our resources to get him well again. He will likely be diminished by this for life, but our goal is to improve the quality of his life as much as we can. If anyone is interested in any of his meteorites, or would like to see a catalog please let me know and I will work one up post-haste. And if you are a believer please pray for my husband. He is all I have. Sincerely, Cynthia [C.J.] Foote PS - Would anyone like to buy a 1980 Goldwing? He won't be riding again. From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Tue Jul 8 18:34:50 2008 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 15:34:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Copper meteor-wrong...was RSPD - July 7, 2008 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <67781.39778.qm@web55204.mail.re4.yahoo.com> I believe in case of a psuedo meteorite "fall" of what appeared to be pure copper, was actually matched in some manner to a copper engine bushing off a Ford Tri-motor. Elton --- On Mon, 7/7/08, Michael Murray wrote: "The only known copper meteorite in the world." > Which is that? From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Tue Jul 8 19:11:26 2008 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 18:11:26 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Copper meteor-wrong...was RSPD - July 7, 2008 References: <67781.39778.qm@web55204.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <08be01c8e14f$f2fd9470$2346e146@ATARIENGINE> Hi, E, and List >From ARN: http://www.meteorites4sale.net/MET_E.HTM Eaton.......................................40'31' N., 104'41' W. Weld County, Colorado, U.S.A. Fell 1931, May 10, 1715 hrs Pseudometeorite.. A copper nugget weighing 29.457g is reported to have been observed to fall. This copper "meteorite" is discredited, It contains 33% Zn, small Pb inclusions and less than 0.1% Ni. It is similar to yellow brass, and distinct from native terrestrial copper and meteoritic copper, the latter having 0.4% to 2.4% Ni. Sounds like a bushing to me... Sterling K. Webb ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mr EMan" To: ; "Michael Murray" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 5:34 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Copper meteor-wrong...was RSPD - July 7, 2008 I believe in case of a psuedo meteorite "fall" of what appeared to be pure copper, was actually matched in some manner to a copper engine bushing off a Ford Tri-motor. Elton --- On Mon, 7/7/08, Michael Murray wrote: "The only known copper meteorite in the world." > Which is that? ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu Tue Jul 8 19:16:03 2008 From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu (lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 16:16:03 -0700 (MST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Articles for Meteorite magazine Message-ID: <50087.71.226.60.25.1215558963.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> Hi Everyone: First of all, we are still looking for authors for articles for the November issue of Meteorite. We have not heard from many people jumping at the opportunity to write one. :( We would like to have articles by August 18. Second, those of you who have, or will soon have, a copy of "Field Guide to Meteors and Meteorites," we are looking for as many short, one- or two-paragraph, reviews to go along with the "regular" reviews (two I hope). This is a very special book by two very special people and we would like to give it as much exposure as possible. Finally, we were just told by the publisher what articles will be coming out in the August issue of Meteorite, so here is a preview: Svend Buhl, et al.: The Fall and Recovery of the Bassikounou Meteorite (Part I) Ruben Garcia: Group Meteorite Hunt?Franconia Dave Gheesling: How YOU Can Make Cosmic Impacts of the Highest Order Don MColl: The Rolled Tektites! David Minton: When Rocks Fell Like Rain: The Late Heavy Bombardment O. Richard Norton: Minerals and Glass in Thin Section Geoffrey Notkin: Show of Force: Tucson 2008 from Room 230 Hal Povenmire: The Newly Discovered Woodbury, Georgia, Astrobleme Dirk Ross: The 16th Annual Tokyo International Mineral Show Anita Westlake: Hall of Meteorites There is also a review article (by me): :The Mystery of the Tunguska Fireball" by Surendra Verma and a guest editorial by Joel Schiff I really hope you will enjoy this issue of Meteorite. Again, please let me know if you are planning to write an article. If you have ideas for ones you are thinking of writing, please contact me and I will get right back to you. Larry Lebofsky Co-Editor, Meteorite magazine From mmurray at montrose.net Tue Jul 8 19:19:20 2008 From: mmurray at montrose.net (Michael Murray) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 17:19:20 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Copper meteor-wrong...was RSPD - July 7, 2008 In-Reply-To: <08be01c8e14f$f2fd9470$2346e146@ATARIENGINE> References: <67781.39778.qm@web55204.mail.re4.yahoo.com> <08be01c8e14f$f2fd9470$2346e146@ATARIENGINE> Message-ID: <41D32965-90F0-420F-A9C0-CBE0FB47C976@montrose.net> Not trying to bore anyone with my itty-bitty pieces but here is one with a face on one side that is bright brassy looking. I have not seen another with a slab like that but am relatively sure there would be others out there. When I first saw that flyer with the reference to a copper meteorite, I was picturing it to be similar to this little guy. Mike in CO On Jul 8, 2008, at 5:11 PM, Sterling K. Webb wrote: > Hi, E, and List > > From ARN: > http://www.meteorites4sale.net/MET_E.HTM > > Eaton.......................................40'31' N., 104'41' W. > Weld County, Colorado, U.S.A. > Fell 1931, May 10, 1715 hrs > Pseudometeorite.. > A copper nugget weighing 29.457g is reported to have been > observed to fall. This copper "meteorite" is discredited, It contains > 33% Zn, small Pb inclusions and less than 0.1% Ni. It is similar to > yellow brass, and distinct from native terrestrial copper and > meteoritic > copper, the latter having 0.4% to 2.4% Ni. > > Sounds like a bushing to me... > > > Sterling K. Webb > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------- > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mr EMan" > To: ; "Michael Murray" > Cc: > Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 5:34 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Copper meteor-wrong...was RSPD - July > 7, 2008 > > > I believe in case of a psuedo meteorite "fall" of what appeared to > be pure > copper, was actually matched in some manner to a copper engine > bushing off a > Ford Tri-motor. > > Elton > > > --- On Mon, 7/7/08, Michael Murray wrote: > > "The only known copper meteorite in the world." >> Which is that? > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From mexicodoug at aim.com Tue Jul 8 19:48:10 2008 From: mexicodoug at aim.com (mexicodoug at aim.com) Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2008 19:48:10 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] 5:15 UT slow, bright Mediterranean bolide Message-ID: <8CAAF6C366A05A4-1C04-1171@FWM-D44.sysops.aol.com> This happened 6 hours ago ... in the evening looks like it was headed from central Israel towards Crete ... ... maybe some associated noise, perhaps at least two fragments ... extremely bright http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1000206.html Meteor sighting sparks UFO panic in Israel By Yigal Hai, Haaretz Correspondent An unexpected meteor cut through Israel's skyline from east to west Tuesday evening and disappeared shortly after, causing panic throughout central Israel and bafflement among astronomers who failed to predict it. The meteor was seen by residents in the Tel Aviv area at around 8:00 P.M., leading to alarmed phone calls to the police. "Several calls were registered in which callers described having seen a shiny trail in the Sharon district," an Israel Police spokesman said. "We crosschecked with the Israel Defense Forces and its ground units, and came up with no explanation," he added. Ram Rafaeli, A resident from Kfar Yedidya described is meteor sighting to Haaretz. "I went on the roof of the house with my sons and we began painting it. My eldest son turned my attention to a bright object that left a long trail, crossing the sky from east to west. It was white and radiant, and it shed a bright, strong and shiny light," he said. Rafaeli explained that at one point he could no longer see the light that divided the skies. "As I am a man of exact sciences in my professional life, I don?t believe in aliens. It is possible that it was a case of a meteor that entered the atmosphere, but it does not appear that way. In any case, it was a beautiful site." From dragonsoup at msn.com Tue Jul 8 19:58:40 2008 From: dragonsoup at msn.com (Maria Haas) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 16:58:40 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Help With Gary Foote's Recovery! In-Reply-To: <4873AA2B.16989.1FB436@gary.webbers.com> References: <4873AA2B.16989.1FB436@gary.webbers.com> Message-ID: Hello Everybody, I just got off the phone with Gary and his wife, Cynthia (C.J.). As you can read in her post below, their situation is quite challenging right now. If you'd like to help with Gary's recovery, you can send a cash donation directly to his PayPal account at gary at webbers.com. If you prefer to donate anonymously, you can send to my PayPal at dragonsoup at msn.com. Anything you can do will be hugely appreciated. Also, if anyone wishes to donate non-cash items to help them get through this, please contact C.J. or myself off-list. I will help out with the details as needed while C.J. tends to Gary. My best, Maria > From: gary at webbers.com > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 17:55:55 -0400 > Subject: [meteorite-list] OT [sort of] - Gary Foote's Recovery > > Dear Metorite Fans, > > My name is CJ Foote. I am writing from Gary's computer because that is where this > list's address is. I know that sometime early this year Gary posted here urging > everyone to have a PSA test for prostate cancer... well, the men anyway. :) Gary's > road to recovery from his prostatectomy has not been a good one. He had surgery on > April 29th and, due to complications that have had his health going downhill every > day for the last month and a half, he can now only lie on one side, stand for no more > than five minutes at a time and cannot sit at all. He is in constant pain and we will be > going for emergency exploratory at Dartmouth Hitchcock surgery Thursday to find > out what went wrong and hopefully correct it. > > I am telling you this because we have come to the end of our rope. Our business is > destroyed and we are now selling all of Gary's meteorites to help pay bills [We've > already sold pretty much everything else already] , despite his pride in being a > member of I.M.C.A. and all of the good conversations and friends he has had made > here. I can't find a catalog of his collection but most of it is bagged and tagged, so it > shouldn't be hard to put one together. Unfortunately I know nothing about prices > [Should I auction? Sell directly?, etc.] and Gary is so sedated he doesn't even know > what day of the week it is. A good day for him is 1-2 hours of being lucid while the > rest of his days are spent in bed or the bathroom. > > I know Gary's collection is not spectacular, but it is what we have and we will use all > of our resources to get him well again. He will likely be diminished by this for life, > but our goal is to improve the quality of his life as much as we can. > > If anyone is interested in any of his meteorites, or would like to see a catalog please > let me know and I will work one up post-haste. And if you are a believer please pray > for my husband. He is all I have. > > Sincerely, > > Cynthia [C.J.] Foote > > PS - Would anyone like to buy a 1980 Goldwing? He won't be riding again. > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mexicodoug at aim.com Tue Jul 8 20:15:13 2008 From: mexicodoug at aim.com (mexicodoug at aim.com) Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2008 20:15:13 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fwd: 5:15 UT slow, bright Mediterranean bolide In-Reply-To: References: <8CAAF6C366A05A4-1C04-1171@FWM-D44.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CAAF6FFDA93486-1C04-1313@FWM-D44.sysops.aol.com> Hi List, Rob, and everyone who held their breath on this one, Please read the other half of the story - from none other than our favorite satellite and comet bagger, Rob Matson !!! Best wishes and better luck next time:( Doug PS God help us if Rob ever defects ... thanks again and I trust it was good work! =========================== Hi Doug, Please feel free to forward this to the Meteorite list for me... I just did a quick check on this, suspecting it might be a satellite re-entry. ... it was travelling east-to-west!", let me add that it was actually ~because~ it was travelling east to west AND passing over Israel that a lightbulb went off in my head. Israeli satellites are always launched in retrograde orbits, and I thought it would be an amusing case of karma if this turned out to be one of their own. Well, in short, it was: Shavit R/B, USSPACECOM #31602, launched some time in 2007. I just plotted its trajectory as seen from Jerusalem, and bingo. --Rob From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Tue Jul 8 20:25:46 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 17:25:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA's Phoenix Lander Delivers Soil-Chemistry Sample Message-ID: <200807090025.RAA27279@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2008-126 NASA's Phoenix Lander Delivers Soil-Chemistry Sample Jet Propulsion Laboratory July 07, 2008 TUCSON, Ariz. -- NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander used its Robotic Arm to deliver a second sample of soil for analysis by the spacecraft's wet chemistry laboratory, data received from Phoenix on Sunday night confirmed. Results from testing this sample will be compared in coming days to the results from the first Martian soil analyzed by the wet chemistry laboratory two weeks ago. That laboratory is part of Phoenix's Microscopy, Electrochemistry and Conductivity Analyzer. The main activity on the lander's schedule for today is testing a method for scraping up a sample of icy material and getting it into the scoop at the end of the Robotic Arm. Photography before, during and after the process will allow evaluation of this method. If the test goes well, the science team plans to use this method for gathering the next sample to be delivered to Phoenix's bake-and-sniff instrument, the Thermal and Evolved-Gas Analyzer. The Phoenix mission is led by Peter Smith of the University of Arizona with project management at JPL and development partnership at Lockheed Martin, located in Denver. International contributions come from the Canadian Space Agency; the University of Neuchatel, Switzerland; the universities of Copenhagen and Aarhus, Denmark; Max Planck Institute, Germany; and the Finnish Meteorological Institute. For more about Phoenix, visit: http://www.nasa.gov/phoenix and http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Media contacts: Guy Webster 818-354-6278 Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. guy.webster at jpl.nasa.gov Dwayne Brown 202-358-1726 NASA Headquarters, Washington dwayne.c.brown at nasa.gov Sara Hammond 520-626-1974 University of Arizona, Tucson shammond at lpl.arizona.edu 2008-126 From dave at fallingrocks.com Tue Jul 8 20:19:07 2008 From: dave at fallingrocks.com (Dave Gheesling) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 20:19:07 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Camp Verde In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <26EDB58AB9474DDA8C36C972BF03A7F3@meteorroom> It is in the Arizona State University collection of meteorites...fantastic specimen and story. http://www.fallingrocks.com/photos.htm#76 Dave -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 2:53 PM To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Camp Verde E.P. Grondine inquired: "Or was Camp Verde a separate fall?" According to Buchwald* it is "probably safe to conclude that Camp Verde is a man-transported Canyon Diablo fragment" because "Wasson (1968) and Moore et al. (1969) have found chemical identity to Canyon Diablo." E.P. Grondine also inquired: "Where is the Camp Verde meteorite today?" If it still is where it was when Buchwald* wrote his comments, the main mass of 58.3 kg should be in Tempe *BUCHWALD V.F. (1975) Handbook of Iron Meteorites, Volume 2, pp. 400+401. Cheers, Bernd ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Tue Jul 8 20:29:03 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 17:29:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Sample-Collection Tests by NASA's Phoenix Lander Continue Message-ID: <200807090029.RAA28600@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2008-127 Sample-Collection Tests by NASA's Phoenix Lander Continue Jet Propulsion Laboratory July 08, 2008 TUCSON, Ariz. -- NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander's science and engineering teams are testing methods to get an icy sample into the Robotic Arm scoop for delivery to the Thermal and Evolved Gas Analyzer (TEGA). Ray Arvidson of Washington University in St. Louis, Phoenix's "dig czar," said the hard Martian surface that Phoenix has reached proved to be a difficult target, comparing the process to scraping a sidewalk. "We have three tools on the scoop to help access ice and icy soil," Arvidson said. "We can scoop material with the backhoe using the front titanium blade; we can scrape the surface with the tungsten carbide secondary blade on the bottom of the scoop; and we can use a high-speed rasp that comes out of a slot at the back of the scoop." "We expected ice and icy soil to be very strong because of the cold temperatures. It certainly looks like this is the case and we are getting ready to use the rasp to generate the fine icy soil and ice particles needed for delivery to TEGA," he said. Scraping action produced piles of scrapings at the bottom of a trench on Monday, but did not get the material into its scoop, information returned from Mars on Monday night confirmed. The piles of scrapings produced were smaller than previous piles dug by Phoenix, which made it difficult to collect the material into the Robotic Arm scoop. "It's like trying to pick up dust with a dustpan, but without a broom," said Richard Volpe, an engineer from NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif., on Phoenix's Robotic Arm team. Images from the lander's Robotic Arm Camera showed that the scoop remained empty after two sets of 50 scrapes performed earlier Monday were collected into two piles in the trench informally named "Snow White." These activities were a test of possible techniques for collecting a sample of ice or ice-rich soil for analysis. The mission teams are now focusing on use of the motorized rasp within the Robotic Arm scoop to access the hard icy soil and ice deposits. They are conducting tests on Phoenix's engineering model in the Payload Interoperability Testbed in Tucson to determine the optimum ways to rasp the hard surfaces and acquire the particulate material produced during the rasping. The testbed work and tests on Mars will help the team determine the best way to collect a sample of Martian ice for delivery to TEGA. The Phoenix mission is led by Peter Smith of the University of Arizona with project management at JPL and development partnership at Lockheed Martin, Denver. International contributions come from the Canadian Space Agency; the University of Neuchatel, Switzerland; the universities of Copenhagen and Aarhus, Denmark; Max Planck Institute, Germany; and the Finnish Meteorological Institute. For more about Phoenix, visit: http://www.nasa.gov/phoenix and http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Media contacts: Guy Webster 818-354-6278 Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. guy.webster at jpl.nasa.gov Dwayne Brown 202-358-1726 NASA Headquarters, Washington dwayne.c.brown at nasa.gov Sara Hammond 520-626-1974 University of Arizona, Tucson shammond at lpl.arizona.edu 2008-127 From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Tue Jul 8 20:41:08 2008 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 19:41:08 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fwd: 5:15 UT slow, bright Mediterranean bolide References: <8CAAF6C366A05A4-1C04-1171@FWM-D44.sysops.aol.com> <8CAAF6FFDA93486-1C04-1313@FWM-D44.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <08e101c8e15c$7aa20b20$2346e146@ATARIENGINE> Hi, List, You can watch it in realtime position at: http://www.n2yo.com/?s=31602 So, why was it leaving a luminous trail: "a bright object that left a long trail"? Hmmm. Answering my own question, it is listed as one of "satellites with periodically varying brightness." It must have "flashed." Sterling K. Webb ---------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 7:15 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Fwd: 5:15 UT slow, bright Mediterranean bolide Hi List, Rob, and everyone who held their breath on this one, Please read the other half of the story - from none other than our favorite satellite and comet bagger, Rob Matson !!! Best wishes and better luck next time:( Doug PS God help us if Rob ever defects ... thanks again and I trust it was good work! =========================== Hi Doug, Please feel free to forward this to the Meteorite list for me... I just did a quick check on this, suspecting it might be a satellite re-entry. ... it was travelling east-to-west!", let me add that it was actually ~because~ it was travelling east to west AND passing over Israel that a lightbulb went off in my head. Israeli satellites are always launched in retrograde orbits, and I thought it would be an amusing case of karma if this turned out to be one of their own. Well, in short, it was: Shavit R/B, USSPACECOM #31602, launched some time in 2007. I just plotted its trajectory as seen from Jerusalem, and bingo. --Rob ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Tue Jul 8 21:30:30 2008 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 18:30:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] New Issue: H chondrite cooling rates and onion shells Message-ID: <105402.91145.qm@web55201.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Announcement from Planetary Science Research Discoveries [PSRD] New Article: Heating, Cooling, and Cratering: One Asteroid's Complicated Story --Cooling rate data indicate that the H-chondrite parent asteroid was deeply cratered as it cooled slowly. --------- We invite you to: READ: First summary paragraph for a quick overview PRINT: pdf version VIEW: short slide summary --------- FULL ARTICLE at: http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu/July08/H-chondrite-parent.html --------- PSRD is an educational web site supported by NASA's SMD Cosmochemistry Program and the Hawaii Space Grant Consortium to share the latest research on meteorites, planets, moons, and other solar system bodies. For more information please see --------- Jeff Taylor and Linda Martel Hawaii Institute of Geophysics and Planetology, University of Hawaii psrd at higp.hawaii.edu voice (808) 956-3899 fax (808) 956-6322 http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu From mexicodoug at aim.com Tue Jul 8 21:49:53 2008 From: mexicodoug at aim.com (mexicodoug at aim.com) Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2008 21:49:53 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fwd: 17:15 UT slow, bright Mediterranean bolide In-Reply-To: <08e101c8e15c$7aa20b20$2346e146@ATARIENGINE> References: <8CAAF6C366A05A4-1C04-1171@FWM-D44.sysops.aol.com> <8CAAF6FFDA93486-1C04-1313@FWM-D44.sysops.aol.com> <08e101c8e15c$7aa20b20$2346e146@ATARIENGINE> Message-ID: <8CAAF7D376818DE-1C04-18EB@FWM-D44.sysops.aol.com> Hi Sterling, listees, I believe Rob has suggested that this rocket part (3rd booster stage) has re-entered in the reported event, so that must be a ghost on the on-line satellite tracking program you are following, I think. The satellite itself is probably quite operational at the moment. Anyway, let me take this opportunity to correct the time of the event today July 8 2008 from incorectly 5:15 UT to corectly 17:15 UT. Just a little excitement as I was hearing about this... Best wishes, Doug still can't believe how fast Rob got that one ... -----Original Message----- From: Sterling K. Webb To: Rob Matson ; mexicodoug at aim.com; Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 7:41 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fwd: 5:15 UT slow, bright Mediterranean bolide Hi, List, You can watch it in realtime position at: http://www.n2yo.com/?s=31602 So, why was it leaving a luminous trail: "a bright object that left a long trail"? Hmmm. Answering my own question, it is listed as one of "satellites with periodically varying brightness." It must have "flashed." Sterling K. Webb ---------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 7:15 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Fwd: 5:15 UT slow, bright Mediterranean bolide Hi List, Rob, and everyone who held their breath on this one, Please read the other half of the story - from none other than our favorite satellite and comet bagger, Rob Matson !!! Best wishes and better luck next time:( Doug PS God help us if Rob ever defects ... thanks again and I trust it was good work! =========================== Hi Doug, Please feel free to forward this to the Meteorite list for me... I just did a quick check on this, suspecting it might be a satellite re-entry. ... it was travelling east-to-west!", let me add that it was actually ~because~ it was travelling east to west AND passing over Israel that a lightbulb went off in my head. Israeli satellites are always launched in retrograde orbits, and I thought it would be an amusing case of karma if this turned out to be one of their own. Well, in short, it was: Shavit R/B, USSPACECOM #31602, launched some time in 2007. I just plotted its trajectory as seen from Jerusalem, and bingo. --Rob ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Tue Jul 8 22:02:27 2008 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 21:02:27 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fwd: 17:15 UT slow, bright Mediterranean bolide References: <8CAAF6C366A05A4-1C04-1171@FWM-D44.sysops.aol.com><8CAAF6FFDA93486-1C04-1313@FWM-D44.sysops.aol.com><08e101c8e15c$7aa20b20$2346e146@ATARIENGINE> <8CAAF7D376818DE-1C04-18EB@FWM-D44.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <091001c8e167$d6dd5650$2346e146@ATARIENGINE> > that must be a ghost... you are following, I think. There are a lot of ghosts on the internet. Sterling K. Webb --------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 8:49 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fwd: 17:15 UT slow,bright Mediterranean bolide Hi Sterling, listees, I believe Rob has suggested that this rocket part (3rd booster stage) has re-entered in the reported event, so that must be a ghost on the on-line satellite tracking program you are following, I think. The satellite itself is probably quite operational at the moment. Anyway, let me take this opportunity to correct the time of the event today July 8 2008 from incorectly 5:15 UT to corectly 17:15 UT. Just a little excitement as I was hearing about this... Best wishes, Doug still can't believe how fast Rob got that one ... -----Original Message----- From: Sterling K. Webb To: Rob Matson ; mexicodoug at aim.com; Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 7:41 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fwd: 5:15 UT slow, bright Mediterranean bolide Hi, List, You can watch it in realtime position at: http://www.n2yo.com/?s=31602 So, why was it leaving a luminous trail: "a bright object that left a long trail"? Hmmm. Answering my own question, it is listed as one of "satellites with periodically varying brightness." It must have "flashed." Sterling K. Webb ---------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 7:15 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Fwd: 5:15 UT slow, bright Mediterranean bolide Hi List, Rob, and everyone who held their breath on this one, Please read the other half of the story - from none other than our favorite satellite and comet bagger, Rob Matson !!! Best wishes and better luck next time:( Doug PS God help us if Rob ever defects ... thanks again and I trust it was good work! =========================== Hi Doug, Please feel free to forward this to the Meteorite list for me... I just did a quick check on this, suspecting it might be a satellite re-entry. ... it was travelling east-to-west!", let me add that it was actually ~because~ it was travelling east to west AND passing over Israel that a lightbulb went off in my head. Israeli satellites are always launched in retrograde orbits, and I thought it would be an amusing case of karma if this turned out to be one of their own. Well, in short, it was: Shavit R/B, USSPACECOM #31602, launched some time in 2007. I just plotted its trajectory as seen from Jerusalem, and bingo. --Rob ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mexicodoug at aim.com Tue Jul 8 22:17:34 2008 From: mexicodoug at aim.com (mexicodoug at aim.com) Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2008 22:17:34 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fwd: 17:15 UT slow, bright Mediterranean bolide In-Reply-To: <091001c8e167$d6dd5650$2346e146@ATARIENGINE> References: <8CAAF6C366A05A4-1C04-1171@FWM-D44.sysops.aol.com><8CAAF6FFDA93486-1C04-1313@FWM-D44.sysops.aol.com><08e101c8e15c$7aa20b20$2346e146@ATARIENGINE> <8CAAF7D376818DE-1C04-18EB@FWM-D44.sysops.aol.com> <091001c8e167$d6dd5650$2346e146@ATARIENGINE> Message-ID: <8CAAF81156EF61E-1C04-1B06@FWM-D44.sysops.aol.com> 'There are a lot of ghosts on the internet.' Hi Sterling, Yes, but it would be nicer to find a Friendly Ghost, like tis one (Thuathe): http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/2911269.stm Best wishes, Doug Meteor caused Lesotho 'poltergeist' By David Ambrose BBC Focus On Africa magazine Some 400 mystery rocks were collected. An outbreak of ghost activity that struck Lesotho last year has been found to have been the result of a spectacular meteor shower. On 21 July, a loud noise in the sky was heard over most of the country. Then in the village of Boqate Ha Sofonia, objects began to fall on the roofs of houses. 'Malino Mantsoe, one of the village residents, saw a large stone smash into the low-walled cooking area in front of her house, before knocking over and cracking a plastic container. She blamed a "thokolosi" - a poltergeist - and sprinkled holy water around her house and on the stone. No more stones fell. 'Matukule Khoeletsana, another resident, also had stones bounce on her roof - and kept them to prove it was no bad dream. Investigation Now the cause of the mystery rocks has been found to have been a meteorite. A rock weighing perhaps a tonne, which had been circling the sun for 4,600 million years, had finally intercepted another body in the solar system - the Earth. It arrived at perhaps 50 to 100 times the speed of sound, and hitting the atmosphere at this speed, exploded into thousands of pieces which had fallen to earth over nine different villages. A team from the National University of Lesotho went to investigate, and with the help of schoolchildren and local residents collected over 400 different stones ranging from just a few grams to over a kilogram. There were a number of champion collectors, including a well-known local youth nicknamed Ramanaka, or "Father of Horns", because of his head-dress decorated with horns and a portrait of Nelson Mandela. The Thuathe meteorite, as it has been christened, has ensured that Lesotho will now have a place in the science of meteoritics. A full version of this article appears in the new edition of the Focus on Africa magazine.. BBC Focus On Africa magazine > that must be a ghost... you are following, I think. There are a lot of ghosts on the internet. Sterling K. Webb --------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 8:49 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fwd: 17:15 UT slow,bright Mediterranean bolide Hi Sterling, listees, I believe Rob has suggested that this rocket part (3rd booster stage) has re-entered in the reported event, so that must be a ghost on the on-line satellite tracking program you are following, I think. The satellite itself is probably quite operational at the moment. Anyway, let me take this opportunity to correct the time of the event today July 8 2008 from incorectly 5:15 UT to corectly 17:15 UT. Just a little excitement as I was hearing about this... Best wishes, Doug still can't believe how fast Rob got that one ... -----Original Message----- From: Sterling K. Webb To: Rob Matson ; mexicodoug at aim.com; Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 7:41 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fwd: 5:15 UT slow, bright Mediterranean bolide Hi, List, You can watch it in realtime position at: http://www.n2yo.com/?s=31602 So, why was it leaving a luminous trail: "a bright object that left a long trail"? Hmmm. Answering my own question, it is listed as one of "satellites with periodically varying brightness." It must have "flashed." Sterling K. Webb ---------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 7:15 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Fwd: 5:15 UT slow, bright Mediterranean bolide Hi List, Rob, and everyone who held their breath on this one, Please read the other half of the story - from none other than our favorite satellite and comet bagger, Rob Matson !!! Best wishes and better luck next time:( Doug PS God help us if Rob ever defects ... thanks again and I trust it was good work! =========================== Hi Doug, Please feel free to forward this to the Meteorite list for me... I just did a quick check on this, suspecting it might be a satellite re-entry. ... it was travelling east-to-west!", let me add that it was actually ~because~ it was travelling east to west AND passing over Israel that a lightbulb went off in my head. Israeli satellites are always launched in retrograde orbits, and I thought it would be an amusing case of karma if this turned out to be one of their own. Well, in short, it was: Shavit R/B, USSPACECOM #31602, launched some time in 2007. I just plotted its trajectory as seen from Jerusalem, and bingo. --Rob ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -----Original Message----- From: Sterling K. Webb To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com; mexicodoug at aim.com Sent: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 9:02 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fwd: 17:15 UT slow,bright Mediterranean bolide > that must be a ghost... you are following, I think. There are a lot of ghosts on the internet. Sterling K. Webb --------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 8:49 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fwd: 17:15 UT slow,bright Mediterranean bolide Hi Sterling, listees, I believe Rob has suggested that this rocket part (3rd booster stage) has re-entered in the reported event, so that must be a ghost on the on-line satellite tracking program you are following, I think. The satellite itself is probably quite operational at the moment. Anyway, let me take this opportunity to correct the time of the event today July 8 2008 from incorectly 5:15 UT to corectly 17:15 UT. Just a little excitement as I was hearing about this... Best wishes, Doug still can't believe how fast Rob got that one ... -----Original Message----- From: Sterling K. Webb To: Rob Matson ; mexicodoug at aim.com; Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 7:41 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fwd: 5:15 UT slow, bright Mediterranean bolide Hi, List, You can watch it in realtime position at: http://www.n2yo.com/?s=31602 So, why was it leaving a luminous trail: "a bright object that left a long trail"? Hmmm. Answering my own question, it is listed as one of "satellites with periodically varying brightness." It must have "flashed." Sterling K. Webb ---------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 7:15 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Fwd: 5:15 UT slow, bright Mediterranean bolide Hi List, Rob, and everyone who held their breath on this one, Please read the other half of the story - from none other than our favorite satellite and comet bagger, Rob Matson !!! Best wishes and better luck next time:( Doug PS God help us if Rob ever defects ... thanks again and I trust it was good work! =========================== Hi Doug, Please feel free to forward this to the Meteorite list for me... I just did a quick check on this, suspecting it might be a satellite re-entry. ... it was travelling east-to-west!", let me add that it was actually ~because~ it was travelling east to west AND passing over Israel that a lightbulb went off in my head. Israeli satellites are always launched in retrograde orbits, and I thought it would be an amusing case of karma if this turned out to be one of their own. Well, in short, it was: Shavit R/B, USSPACECOM #31602, launched some time in 2007. I just plotted its trajectory as seen from Jerusalem, and bingo. --Rob ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From leandro.saracino at oacl.net Tue Jul 8 23:20:32 2008 From: leandro.saracino at oacl.net (leandro.saracino at oacl.net) Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 05:20:32 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Help With Gary Foote's Recovery! Message-ID: <48742E80.7080203@oacl.net> dear IMCA fellows, just read the sad news about gary and his wife's wish to sell his meteorites (and everything else). I simply refuse the idea that a fellow meteorite collector has to give away his/her little or great treasure to pay bills for healthcare. I'm trying to figure out what that could mean to me, laying in a hospital bed and thinking that what is most valuable to me is going for sale among "friends", and I'm scared of this thought. Is this the only way we can help suffering people, buying their things at auctions? I know that this has been done in the past, and I like to think that it has been done in the pure spirit of helping. No offense to anyone: I'm only asking to our community to consider leaving gary's stones and irons at gary's home, and send him instead a decent amount of money to help him (maybe the same amount one should have wished to spend for an auction?) I'm sure that keeping his things around him will make his recovery much faster and complete. only a suggestion, not a moral lesson :-) best to you all leandro -- IMCA 2689 -- From mexicodoug at aim.com Wed Jul 9 00:27:10 2008 From: mexicodoug at aim.com (mexicodoug at aim.com) Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 00:27:10 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] The Stone of Scone Message-ID: <8CAAF93305A25CA-1C04-2123@FWM-D44.sysops.aol.com> Dear Listees, Here are some opinions regarding the Stone of Scone, the very heavy meteor-maybe that was seen as a source of power to Scottish Kings and Country, before it was seized by the King of England to be built into the British Coronation Seat 700 years ago. There is clamor and publicity surrounding this in preparation for the upcoming relatively low budget movie (Does anyone know when it will fiinally be fully released since the 21 June Premier in at the Scottish Film Festival?), and the internal state of politics in Great Britain and Scottish separatists ... There are doubts as to whether the English King Edward I was duped into getting a piece of common sandstone while the true [possible meteorite collected before the 9th century in the Middle East, having been used by Jacob in the Christian Bible times - see excerpted below] was hidden by Scottish monks and nobility. After being returned to Scotland in 1996, controversy still shrouds the stone as the SNP leader Mr. Alex Salmond, has some interesting comments. The other 'reputed' entered the equation when the the Stone was actually stolen and transported back to Scotland in 1950 by four activist students (and broken in two in the process) that it was swapped and when the whereabouts finally discovered in 1951, a fake make by an expert Scottish stonecutter was returned ... and the authentic one (or at least the authentic original fake)20remains hidden... A National search was conducted in the year following the theft before ithe reputed stone's location was finally disclosed. The movie will be about the four kids' comical escapades, Scottish style... The ringleader is played by actor Charlie Cox, who is no stranger to meteorite hunting (he was Tristan in last years movie adaptation of Stardust ...) Sl?inte mh?r ! Cheers ! Doug Excerpted from the above 2008.06.15 link: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/scotland/article4144587.ece Mr Salmond appears to favour the former theory, saying: ?What I believe cannot be in doubt is that the stone currently in Edinburgh Castle is the one that lay in Westminster Abbey for 700 years.? He believes that the original stone may have been a fragment of meteorite. Medieval chroniclers described it as round, black and polished with carved symbols. According to legend, it was used as a pillow by Jacob when he dreamt of a ladder to heaven. ?At least one chronicler describes the stone as a shiny black object and you would think that if something was to be seen as Jacob's pillow, Scotland's most sacred relic, it would be very unusual to the medieval eye,? Mr Salmond added. ?I have a hunch that the sort of thing that would go down as the Stone of Scone would be more like a meteor or something like that - something very unusual, and a lump of Perthshir e sandstone, interesting and nice, doesn't seem to be that.? According to this theory, the real stone, which, according to mythology, came from Palestine and was carried through Egypt, Sicily, Spain and Ireland before arriving in Scone in the 9th century, was removed from the abbey by monks and hidden in a nearby cave before the English could seize it. According to recent claims, it may even be hidden to this day in the grounds of a Perthshire mansion. excerpted from reader comments: 'The stone bears the inscription: "Ni fallat fatum, Scoti quocumque locatum Invenient lapidiem, regnasse tenetur ibidem" (If the Destiny prove true, then the Scots are known to have been Kings where'er men find this stone). Frank, Glasgow, Scotland From cynapse at charter.net Wed Jul 9 00:34:36 2008 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 00:34:36 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] The Stone of Scone In-Reply-To: <8CAAF93305A25CA-1C04-2123@FWM-D44.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CAAF93305A25CA-1C04-2123@FWM-D44.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 09 Jul 2008 00:27:10 -0400, you wrote: >Here are some opinions regarding the Stone of Scone, the very heavy >meteor-maybe that was seen as a source of power to Scottish Kings and >Country, before it was seized by the King of England to be built into >the British Coronation Seat 700 years ago. Not to be confused with the Scone of Stone. http://wiki.lspace.org/wiki/Scone_of_Stone From mexicodoug at aim.com Wed Jul 9 00:45:02 2008 From: mexicodoug at aim.com (mexicodoug at aim.com) Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 00:45:02 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fwd: How many meteorite dealers are there? In-Reply-To: References: <8CAAF6C366A05A4-1C04-1171@FWM-D44.sysops.aol.com><8CAAF6FFDA93486-1C04-1313@FWM-D44.sysops.aol.com><08e101c8e15c$7aa20b20$2346e146@ATARIENGINE><8CAAF7D376818DE-1C04-18EB@FWM-D44.sysops.aol.com><091001c8e167$d6dd5650$2346e146@ATARIENGINE> <8CAAF81156EF61E-1C04-1B06@FWM-D44.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CAAF95AF00D157-1C04-2186@FWM-D44.sysops.aol.com> Forwarded message from Tim Heitz (The Original Meteorite 'Pusher' and author of ten meteorite commandments :-) -----Original Message----- From: Timothy Heitz Hello Doug,??Would you post this for me to the list below??The list is not working for me again?Thanks,?Tim ? ? Hello list,? ? ? Does anyone know just how many meteorite dealers there are?? ? ? When I started collecting in 1996 there were just 12 dealers worldwide and only 3 were on the internet? ? ? This should include all the part time dealers, a dealer is someone who deals, there are many part time dealers.? ? ? Thanks,? ? Tim Heitz? ? ? ? MIDWEST METEORITES - http://www.meteorman.org/? ? From marco.langbroek at wanadoo.nl Wed Jul 9 05:22:51 2008 From: marco.langbroek at wanadoo.nl (Marco Langbroek) Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 11:22:51 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fwd: 5:15 UT slow, bright Mediterranean, bolide Message-ID: <4874836B.7080902@wanadoo.nl> Sterling wrote: > So, why was it leaving a luminous trail: > "a bright object that left a long trail"? Hmmm. > Answering my own question, it is listed as > one of "satellites with periodically varying > brightness." It must have "flashed." > > > Sterling K. Webb Answer: No. It was observed while it decayed and that's why it had fireball characteristics: it was entering our atmosphere and burning up. The website you mentioned will show it as "in orbit" even if it no longer isn't, for as long as they (or SSC) didn't update their orbital element database. SSC has not issued a final TIPS message yet but does show it as expected to decay. - Marco ----- Dr Marco Langbroek - SatTrackCam Leiden, the Netherlands. e-mail: sattrackcam at wanadoo.nl Cospar 4353 (Leiden): 52.15412 N, 4.49081 E (WGS84), +0 m ASL Cospar 4354 (De Wilck): 52.11685 N, 4.56016 E (WGS84), -2 m ASL SatTrackCam: http://home.wanadoo.nl/marco.langbroek/satcam.html Station (b)log: http://sattrackcam.blogspot.com ----- From Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr Wed Jul 9 06:03:14 2008 From: Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr (Zelimir Gabelica) Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 12:03:14 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Articles for Meteorite magazine In-Reply-To: <50087.71.226.60.25.1215558963.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona. edu> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20080709115704.02eedc28@pop.univ-mulhouse.fr> Hi Larry, Forgot to confirm that you will receive a report on "Ensisheim 2008", co-authored by John Kashuba, Svend Buhl and myself. As soon as I receive the notes from my 2 colleagues (promised for "soon"), I will complete and finalize the report so that it is in your hands (a little) before August 18. All best wishes, Zelimir PS: I would love to send you some comments about "Field Guide to Meteors and Meteorites," but am still searching the best way to acquire that wonder here in Europe. Any tips ? A 16:16 08/07/2008 -0700, lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu a ?crit : >Hi Everyone: > >First of all, we are still looking for authors for articles for the >November issue of Meteorite. We have not heard from many people jumping at >the opportunity to write one. :( We would like to have articles by August >18. > >Second, those of you who have, or will soon have, a copy of "Field Guide >to Meteors and Meteorites," we are looking for as many short, one- or >two-paragraph, reviews to go along with the "regular" reviews (two I >hope). This is a very special book by two very special people and we would >like to give it as much exposure as possible. > >Finally, we were just told by the publisher what articles will be coming >out in the August issue of Meteorite, so here is a preview: > >Svend Buhl, et al.: The Fall and Recovery of the Bassikounou Meteorite >(Part I) > >Ruben Garcia: Group Meteorite Hunt?Franconia > >Dave Gheesling: How YOU Can Make Cosmic Impacts of the Highest Order > >Don MColl: The Rolled Tektites! > >David Minton: When Rocks Fell Like Rain: The Late Heavy Bombardment > >O. Richard Norton: Minerals and Glass in Thin Section > >Geoffrey Notkin: Show of Force: Tucson 2008 from Room 230 > >Hal Povenmire: The Newly Discovered Woodbury, Georgia, Astrobleme > >Dirk Ross: The 16th Annual Tokyo International Mineral Show > >Anita Westlake: Hall of Meteorites > >There is also a review article (by me): :The Mystery of the Tunguska >Fireball" by Surendra Verma and a guest editorial by Joel Schiff > >I really hope you will enjoy this issue of Meteorite. > > >Again, please let me know if you are planning to write an article. If you >have ideas for ones you are thinking of writing, please contact me and I >will get right back to you. > >Larry Lebofsky >Co-Editor, Meteorite magazine > >______________________________________________ >http://www.meteoritecentral.com >Meteorite-list mailing list >Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Universit? de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 From mark.ford at ssl.gb.com Wed Jul 9 08:01:44 2008 From: mark.ford at ssl.gb.com (Mark Ford) Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 13:01:44 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] field guide to meteors and meteorites.. In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20080709115704.02eedc28@pop.univ-mulhouse.fr> References: <50087.71.226.60.25.1215558963.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona. edu> <5.0.2.1.2.20080709115704.02eedc28@pop.univ-mulhouse.fr> Message-ID: <29A9DB45B84970458190D7D39BD42C4934F764@gamma.ssl.atw> I have just written a book review for an astronomy magazine on that book 'Field guide to meteors and meteorites', whilst I can't re-print the article here, I can say it's a very nice little book, well worth getting if you can find it.. It has an intro on IDP (Interplanetary Dust Particles), and some background on meteors and the resultant flow shapes, followed by pages on each of the rock types and good pics of various falls. There is a great section on thin sections, and advice on how to set up a microscope, and how to interpret the colour extinctions, (this is something that has been missing from most books). There are some good pics on recent finds such as Steves mega find, and some advice on metal detectors to use. There is also a great section on nickel testing and etching etc as well as other identification tips. All in all a very good book, and at ?22 here in the uk is not too bad for such a good book. I'd say it was as good as the EofM, and it's a nice handy small size. It does contain some up to the minute stuff such as web site addresses (that might change or be removed long term), and the layout takes a bit of time to get used to but it is a very good book and 'ought to be on everyone's book shelf imho... Best Mark -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Zelimir Gabelica Sent: 09 July 2008 11:03 To: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Articles for Meteorite magazine Hi Larry, Forgot to confirm that you will receive a report on "Ensisheim 2008", co-authored by John Kashuba, Svend Buhl and myself. As soon as I receive the notes from my 2 colleagues (promised for "soon"), I will complete and finalize the report so that it is in your hands (a little) before August 18. All best wishes, Zelimir PS: I would love to send you some comments about "Field Guide to Meteors and Meteorites," but am still searching the best way to acquire that wonder here in Europe. Any tips ? A 16:16 08/07/2008 -0700, lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu a ?crit : >Hi Everyone: > >First of all, we are still looking for authors for articles for the >November issue of Meteorite. We have not heard from many people jumping at >the opportunity to write one. :( We would like to have articles by August >18. > >Second, those of you who have, or will soon have, a copy of "Field Guide >to Meteors and Meteorites," we are looking for as many short, one- or >two-paragraph, reviews to go along with the "regular" reviews (two I >hope). This is a very special book by two very special people and we would >like to give it as much exposure as possible. > >Finally, we were just told by the publisher what articles will be coming >out in the August issue of Meteorite, so here is a preview: > >Svend Buhl, et al.: The Fall and Recovery of the Bassikounou Meteorite >(Part I) > >Ruben Garcia: Group Meteorite Hunt-Franconia > >Dave Gheesling: How YOU Can Make Cosmic Impacts of the Highest Order > >Don MColl: The Rolled Tektites! > >David Minton: When Rocks Fell Like Rain: The Late Heavy Bombardment > >O. Richard Norton: Minerals and Glass in Thin Section > >Geoffrey Notkin: Show of Force: Tucson 2008 from Room 230 > >Hal Povenmire: The Newly Discovered Woodbury, Georgia, Astrobleme > >Dirk Ross: The 16th Annual Tokyo International Mineral Show > >Anita Westlake: Hall of Meteorites > >There is also a review article (by me): :The Mystery of the Tunguska >Fireball" by Surendra Verma and a guest editorial by Joel Schiff > >I really hope you will enjoy this issue of Meteorite. > > >Again, please let me know if you are planning to write an article. If you >have ideas for ones you are thinking of writing, please contact me and I >will get right back to you. > >Larry Lebofsky >Co-Editor, Meteorite magazine > >______________________________________________ >http://www.meteoritecentral.com >Meteorite-list mailing list >Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Universit? de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us. Email info at ssl.gb.com. You should not copy or use this email or attachment(s) for any purpose nor disclose their contents to any other person. GENERAL STATEMENT: Southern Scientific Ltd's computer systems may be monitored and communications carried on them recorded, to secure the effective operation of the system and for other lawful purposes. Registered address Rectory Farm Rd, Sompting, Lancing, W Sussex BN15 0DP. Company No 1800317 From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Wed Jul 9 11:36:15 2008 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 09 Jul 2008 15:36:15 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] O.R. Norton's Field Guide here in Europe Message-ID: Hi Zelimir and List, "I am still searching the best way to acquire that wonder here in Europe" I ordered my copy of the Field Guide on Sunday, Jul 06, 2008 and got an email today confirming that Amazon.de (=Amazon, Germany) has already shipped it! Best, Bernd From grf2 at verizon.net Wed Jul 9 12:09:03 2008 From: grf2 at verizon.net (Jerry) Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 12:09:03 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: New Issue: H chondrite cooling rates and onion shells Message-ID: <0FA01AB2AE5E477BBBD0E58E66FA5B23@Notebook> Jerry Flaherty ----- Original Message ----- From: "PSRD" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 9:04 PM Subject: New Issue: H chondrite cooling rates and onion shells > Announcement from Planetary Science Research Discoveries [PSRD] > > New Article: Heating, Cooling, and Cratering: One Asteroid's Complicated > Story > --Cooling rate data indicate that the H-chondrite parent asteroid was > deeply cratered as it cooled slowly. > --------- > We invite you to: > READ: First summary paragraph for a quick overview > PRINT: pdf version > VIEW: short slide summary > --------- > FULL ARTICLE at: > http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu/July08/H-chondrite-parent.html > --------- > > PSRD is an educational web site supported by NASA's SMD Cosmochemistry > Program and the Hawaii Space Grant Consortium to share the latest research > on meteorites, planets, moons, and other solar system bodies. > > You are subscribed to our free mailing list. > We never send attachments. > For more information please see > http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu/PSRDsubscribe.html > > --------- > Jeff Taylor and Linda Martel > Hawaii Institute of Geophysics and Planetology, > University of Hawaii > psrd at higp.hawaii.edu > voice (808) 956-3899 > fax (808) 956-6322 > http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu From Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr Wed Jul 9 12:22:27 2008 From: Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr (Zelimir Gabelica) Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 18:22:27 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] O.R. Norton's Field Guide here in Europe In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20080709181505.02898008@pop.univ-mulhouse.fr> Hi Bernd, all As I already replied to many of you who suggested me (off list) the various ways to acquire the Field Guide, along with my sincere thanks for your trying to help in various ways, I was lucky enough to receive an offer from John Kashuba for an extra copy he had left. It is now on the way... Anxious to read it soon. Larry, yes, definitely, I'll be very glad to send you a few personal comments/feelings. Thanks again all of you for your kindness. Listees very often behave as a nice helping community. What a satisfaction! My very best thoughts, Zelimir A 15:36 09/07/2008 +0000, bernd.pauli at paulinet.de a ?crit : >Hi Zelimir and List, > > >"I am still searching the best way to acquire that wonder here in Europe" > > >I ordered my copy of the Field Guide on Sunday, Jul 06, 2008 and got an email >today confirming that Amazon.de (=Amazon, Germany) has already shipped it! > > >Best, > >Bernd > >______________________________________________ >http://www.meteoritecentral.com >Meteorite-list mailing list >Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Universit? de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 From moni2555 at hotmail.com Wed Jul 9 12:35:09 2008 From: moni2555 at hotmail.com (Moni Waiblinger) Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 09:35:09 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Articles for Meteorite magazine In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20080709115704.02eedc28@pop.univ-mulhouse.fr> References: <50087.71.226.60.25.1215558963.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona. edu> <5.0.2.1.2.20080709115704.02eedc28@pop.univ-mulhouse.fr> Message-ID: Hi Zelimir and All, I will send you my copy. I will go to the post office in an hour and send it off. Send your address quickly. With best regards, Moni ---------------------------------------- > Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 12:03:14 +0200 > To: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > From: Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Articles for Meteorite magazine > > Hi Larry, > > Forgot to confirm that you will receive a report on "Ensisheim 2008", > co-authored by John Kashuba, Svend Buhl and myself. > As soon as I receive the notes from my 2 colleagues (promised for "soon"), > I will complete and finalize the report so that it is in your hands (a > little) before August 18. > > All best wishes, > > Zelimir > > PS: I would love to send you some comments about "Field Guide to Meteors > and Meteorites," but am still searching the best way to acquire that wonder > here in Europe. Any tips ? > > _________________________________________________________________ Need to know now? Get instant answers with Windows Live Messenger. http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/connect_your_way.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_messenger_072008 From Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr Wed Jul 9 12:58:42 2008 From: Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr (Zelimir Gabelica) Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 18:58:42 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Articles for Meteorite magazine In-Reply-To: References: <5.0.2.1.2.20080709115704.02eedc28@pop.univ-mulhouse.fr> <50087.71.226.60.25.1215558963.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona. edu> <5.0.2.1.2.20080709115704.02eedc28@pop.univ-mulhouse.fr> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20080709184219.029ee620@pop.univ-mulhouse.fr> Hi Moni, You are very generous to offer me your own copy! I am really deeply touched by your offer.... But you might now have read the new post I just sent to the List, replying that John Kashuba made me the same offer a couple of hours ago and the book is now on the way to Belgium (my home).... Please consider that I do appreciate so much your spontaneous generosity, as if it was realized. With my deepest thanks anf friendly wishes, Zelimir A 09:35 09/07/2008 -0700, Moni Waiblinger a ?crit : >Hi Zelimir and All, > >I will send you my copy. >I will go to the post office in an hour and send it off. > >Send your address quickly. > >With best regards, >Moni > >---------------------------------------- > > Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 12:03:14 +0200 > > To: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > From: Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Articles for Meteorite magazine > > > > Hi Larry, > > > > Forgot to confirm that you will receive a report on "Ensisheim 2008", > > co-authored by John Kashuba, Svend Buhl and myself. > > As soon as I receive the notes from my 2 colleagues (promised for "soon"), > > I will complete and finalize the report so that it is in your hands (a > > little) before August 18. > > > > All best wishes, > > > > Zelimir > > > > PS: I would love to send you some comments about "Field Guide to Meteors > > and Meteorites," but am still searching the best way to acquire that > wonder > > here in Europe. Any tips ? > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Need to know now? Get instant answers with Windows Live Messenger. >http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/connect_your_way.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_messenger_072008 > Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Universit? de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 From bigpineartifacts at yahoo.com Wed Jul 9 13:13:07 2008 From: bigpineartifacts at yahoo.com (mckinney trammell) Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 10:13:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] nice TOLUCA, MALI, etc for sale Message-ID: <865466.49069.qm@web53205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> some duplicated all priced at ONE DOLLAR, NO RESERVE: http://collectibles.search.ebay.com/_Meteorites-Tektites_W0QQcatrefZC12QQsacatZ3239QQsassZpaleoasis From M42protosun at aol.com Wed Jul 9 14:17:19 2008 From: M42protosun at aol.com (M42protosun at aol.com) Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 14:17:19 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] My first contact Message-ID: Am I here? Uwe From cynapse at charter.net Wed Jul 9 14:37:51 2008 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 14:37:51 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] My first contact In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5t0a74p9nf28v4u5n6squ840o69m09pl7h@4ax.com> On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 14:17:19 EDT, you wrote: >Am I here? >Uwe That is a question men have been asking for all the ages. Am I here? Some say that we are the dream God dreams. If the dreamer awakes, do we continue to exist? Or maybe I am the dreamer, and all other people are just a figment of my feavered imagination-- if that be the case, you are not there. Of course, if you are there, you may feel the same about all of us-- and this reply, the meteorite list, the universe itself is just an illusion brought about by the madding solitude of an ageless deity, a lone voice crying in the wilderness, seeking compainonship from the echoes of his own voice. From M42protosun at aol.com Wed Jul 9 14:47:24 2008 From: M42protosun at aol.com (M42protosun at aol.com) Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 14:47:24 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] My first contact Message-ID: Thank you for your annotation. I read this list now since 6 month and tried to enter it without success. Now I know my fault. The text must be written in ASCII. I hope that I can give to you and all listiods now in the discussions something of my experience as a retired geo scientist. Uwe From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Wed Jul 9 14:51:55 2008 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 09 Jul 2008 18:51:55 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] My First Contact Message-ID: Uwe asked: "Am I here?" Hi Uwe! We can hear you loud and clear. How long did it take you to travel from one of those protosuns of the Orion Nebula (M42) to this corner of the Milky Way? Just kidding ;-) Welcome to the List! Bernd From mlblood at cox.net Wed Jul 9 14:58:37 2008 From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael L Blood) Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 11:58:37 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fwd: How many meteorite dealers are there? In-Reply-To: <8CAAF95AF00D157-1C04-2186@FWM-D44.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Hi Doug, Tim and all, I was one of the 3 on the internet - those were exciting days and Many life long friendships were formed. If you look in the archives, I did a survey study of the members of The Meteorite List. While there was not a 100% response rate, the Rate of response was VERY high. I asked 25 questions as I recall And one of them was, "do you sell meteorites" and "does it make up A significant portion of your income." (or the like - y'all know I have A terrible memory. In any event, over 40% of the hundreds of people who responded Stated they were meteorite dealers! Please check the archives for specific statistical information. Best wishes, Michael on 7/8/08 9:45 PM, mexicodoug at aim.com at mexicodoug at aim.com wrote: > Forwarded message from Tim Heitz (The Original Meteorite 'Pusher' and author > of ten meteorite commandments :-) -----Original Message----- From: Timothy > Heitz Hello Doug,??Would you post this for me to the > list below??The list is not working for me again?Thanks,?Tim ? ? Hello > list,? ? ? Does anyone know just how many meteorite dealers there are?? ? ? > When I started collecting in 1996 there were just 12 dealers worldwide and > only 3 were on the internet? ? ? This should include all the part time > dealers, a dealer is someone who deals, there are many part time > dealers.? ? ? Thanks,? ? Tim Heitz? ? ? ? MIDWEST METEORITES - > http://www.meteorman.org/? ? ______________________________________________ h > ttp://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing > list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listi > nfo/meteorite-list Going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a car. From midwest at meteorman.org Wed Jul 9 15:25:38 2008 From: midwest at meteorman.org (Timothy Heitz) Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 14:25:38 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fwd: How many meteorite dealers are there? References: Message-ID: <80FA1705985D436584F7279F35A42527@den> Hello Michael, Doug and List, I count 138 dealers worldwide now. Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael L Blood" To: ; "Meteorite List" Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 1:58 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fwd: How many meteorite dealers are there? Hi Doug, Tim and all, I was one of the 3 on the internet - those were exciting days and Many life long friendships were formed. If you look in the archives, I did a survey study of the members of The Meteorite List. While there was not a 100% response rate, the Rate of response was VERY high. I asked 25 questions as I recall And one of them was, "do you sell meteorites" and "does it make up A significant portion of your income." (or the like - y'all know I have A terrible memory. In any event, over 40% of the hundreds of people who responded Stated they were meteorite dealers! Please check the archives for specific statistical information. Best wishes, Michael on 7/8/08 9:45 PM, mexicodoug at aim.com at mexicodoug at aim.com wrote: > Forwarded message from Tim Heitz (The Original Meteorite 'Pusher' and author > of ten meteorite commandments :-) -----Original Message----- From: Timothy > Heitz Hello Doug, Would you post this for me to the > list below? The list is not working for me again Thanks, Tim Hello > list, Does anyone know just how many meteorite dealers there are? > When I started collecting in 1996 there were just 12 dealers worldwide and > only 3 were on the internet This should include all the part time > dealers, a dealer is someone who deals, there are many part time > dealers. Thanks, Tim Heitz MIDWEST METEORITES - > http://www.meteorman.org/ ______________________________________________ h > ttp://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing > list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listi > nfo/meteorite-list Going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a car. ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From M42protosun at aol.com Wed Jul 9 16:14:10 2008 From: M42protosun at aol.com (M42protosun at aol.com) Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 16:14:10 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Re. FW: My first contact nice map as present Message-ID: Hell all, for my 1st successful contact to the list I will present you a map of rebbery trails to Sikhote Alin Impact area which is today hidden under Google earth. With this old army map, reading a lot of russian documentation and combination of all facts I find it out. The difficulty is that a lot of russian villages have changed their name. http://s345.photobucket.com/albums/p384/m42protosun/?action=view¤t=Robbe rytrails.jp uwe From M42protosun at aol.com Wed Jul 9 16:18:21 2008 From: M42protosun at aol.com (M42protosun at aol.com) Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 16:18:21 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: My first contact, a nice map as present Message-ID: Hello all, for my 1st successful contact to the list I will present you a map of rebbery trails to Sikhote Alin Impact area which is today hidden under Google earth. With this old army map, reading a lot of russian documentation and combination of all facts I find it out. The difficulty is that a lot of russian villages have changed their name. http://s345.photobucket.com/albums/p384/m42protosun/?action=view¤t=Robbe rytrails.jpg uwe From gsac at gmx.net Wed Jul 9 16:26:02 2008 From: gsac at gmx.net (Alexander Seidel) Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 22:26:02 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fwd: How many meteorite dealers are there? In-Reply-To: <80FA1705985D436584F7279F35A42527@den> References: <80FA1705985D436584F7279F35A42527@den> Message-ID: <20080709202602.100470@gmx.net> To answer the question of how many "dealers" there are, you have to be careful in these times of global communication via the internet. We can no longer think in classical schemes. Who can tell a dealer from a collector, a dealer-collector from a collector-dealer or any in-betweens, where it gets somehow blurred and indistinct. Many private collectors make up their own websites and also sell their meteorites. Should they considered to be "dealers" by virtue of this fact alone? Then again: where is the borderline? Is it, where dealers found a company, float a business with an official name to it and pay taxes for this special enterprise? I don?t know, and btw I admit it is not crucial for me since I am still and have always been nothing but a pure collector. Though it is interesting to see how things and perspectives have changed "in the field". [PS: I basically (re-)launched my collection in 1992, after a personal visit to David New in Anacortes, whom I would consider to be a CLASSICAL dealer!] Alex Berlin, Germany -------- Original-Nachricht -------- > Datum: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 14:25:38 -0500 > Von: "Timothy Heitz" > An: "Michael L Blood" , mexicodoug at aim.com, "Meteorite List" > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Fwd: How many meteorite dealers are there? > Hello Michael, Doug and List, > > I count 138 dealers worldwide now. > > Tim > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Michael L Blood" > To: ; "Meteorite List" > > Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 1:58 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fwd: How many meteorite dealers are there? > > > Hi Doug, Tim and all, > I was one of the 3 on the internet - those were exciting days and > Many life long friendships were formed. > If you look in the archives, I did a survey study of the members > of > The Meteorite List. While there was not a 100% response rate, the > Rate of response was VERY high. I asked 25 questions as I recall > And one of them was, "do you sell meteorites" and "does it make up > A significant portion of your income." (or the like - y'all know I have > A terrible memory. > In any event, over 40% of the hundreds of people who responded > Stated they were meteorite dealers! > Please check the archives for specific statistical information. > Best wishes, Michael > > on 7/8/08 9:45 PM, mexicodoug at aim.com at mexicodoug at aim.com wrote: > > > Forwarded message from Tim Heitz (The Original Meteorite 'Pusher' and > author > > of ten meteorite commandments :-) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Timothy > > Heitz > Hello Doug, Would you post this for me to the > > list below? The list is > not working for me again Thanks, Tim > > Hello > > list, > > Does anyone know just how many meteorite dealers there are? > > > > When I started collecting in 1996 there were just 12 dealers > worldwide and > > only 3 were on the internet > > This should include all the part time > > dealers, a dealer is someone > who deals, there are many part time > > dealers. > > Thanks, > Tim Heitz > > > MIDWEST METEORITES - > > http://www.meteorman.org/ > > > ______________________________________________ > h > > ttp://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing > > list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listi > > nfo/meteorite-list > > > Going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than > standing in a garage makes you a car. > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From midwest at meteorman.org Wed Jul 9 18:11:51 2008 From: midwest at meteorman.org (Timothy Heitz) Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 17:11:51 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fwd: How many meteorite dealers are there? References: <80FA1705985D436584F7279F35A42527@den> <20080709202602.100470@gmx.net> Message-ID: <7ED3498F354F46B587967B68230CBB6E@den> Hello Alex, The Dictionary states that a dealer is one that is engaged in buying and selling,. Most of the Meteorite Dealers I know also collect meteorites, there are only a few that don't collect.. Dealer just means someone who deals, simple as that. This is the Original Meteorite Dealers List http://www.meteorite.com/dealer_list.htm I counted 138 dealers, give or take a few, some are tektites only. Can you tell the MeteoriteMan is a dealer or the collector is the MeteoriteMan? Is there a borderline? Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alexander Seidel" To: "Timothy Heitz" ; ; ; Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 3:26 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fwd: How many meteorite dealers are there? > To answer the question of how many "dealers" there are, you have > to be careful in these times of global communication via the internet. > > We can no longer think in classical schemes. Who can tell a dealer from > a collector, a dealer-collector from a collector-dealer or any > in-betweens, > where it gets somehow blurred and indistinct. > > Many private collectors make up their own websites and also sell their > meteorites. Should they considered to be "dealers" by virtue of this fact > alone? Then again: where is the borderline? Is it, where dealers found > a company, float a business with an official name to it and pay taxes > for this special enterprise? > > I don?t know, and btw I admit it is not crucial for me since I am still > and > have always been nothing but a pure collector. Though it is interesting to > see how things and perspectives have changed "in the field". > > [PS: I basically (re-)launched my collection in 1992, after a personal > visit to > David New in Anacortes, whom I would consider to be a CLASSICAL dealer!] > > Alex > Berlin, Germany > > > -------- Original-Nachricht -------- >> Datum: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 14:25:38 -0500 >> Von: "Timothy Heitz" >> An: "Michael L Blood" , mexicodoug at aim.com, "Meteorite >> List" >> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Fwd: How many meteorite dealers are there? > >> Hello Michael, Doug and List, >> >> I count 138 dealers worldwide now. >> >> Tim >> >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Michael L Blood" >> To: ; "Meteorite List" >> >> Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 1:58 PM >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fwd: How many meteorite dealers are there? >> >> >> Hi Doug, Tim and all, >> I was one of the 3 on the internet - those were exciting days and >> Many life long friendships were formed. >> If you look in the archives, I did a survey study of the members >> of >> The Meteorite List. While there was not a 100% response rate, the >> Rate of response was VERY high. I asked 25 questions as I recall >> And one of them was, "do you sell meteorites" and "does it make up >> A significant portion of your income." (or the like - y'all know I have >> A terrible memory. >> In any event, over 40% of the hundreds of people who responded >> Stated they were meteorite dealers! >> Please check the archives for specific statistical information. >> Best wishes, Michael >> >> on 7/8/08 9:45 PM, mexicodoug at aim.com at mexicodoug at aim.com wrote: >> >> > Forwarded message from Tim Heitz (The Original Meteorite 'Pusher' and >> author >> > of ten meteorite commandments :-) >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Timothy >> > Heitz >> Hello Doug, Would you post this for me to the >> > list below? The list is >> not working for me again Thanks, Tim >> >> Hello >> > list, >> >> Does anyone know just how many meteorite dealers there are? >> >> >> > When I started collecting in 1996 there were just 12 dealers >> worldwide and >> > only 3 were on the internet >> >> This should include all the part time >> > dealers, a dealer is someone >> who deals, there are many part time >> > dealers. >> >> Thanks, >> Tim Heitz >> >> >> MIDWEST METEORITES - >> > http://www.meteorman.org/ >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> h >> > ttp://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing >> > list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listi >> > nfo/meteorite-list >> >> >> Going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than >> standing in a garage makes you a car. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Wed Jul 9 18:19:53 2008 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 17:19:53 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] THE MOON IS NO LONGER A DRY COUNTY? Message-ID: <002201c8e211$e986dbf0$db5de146@ATARIENGINE> Hi, The absence of water in the bulk composition of the Moon is a long-held truism -- the driest body in the Solar System. We've always believed, and the evidence has supported, the notion that due to its violent origin all water (and volatiles) were lost. Now, someone's found water in "Moon Rocks." Water is discovered in Moon Samples http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/080709-moon-water.html Sterling K. Webb From gsac at gmx.net Wed Jul 9 19:01:51 2008 From: gsac at gmx.net (Alexander Seidel) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 01:01:51 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fwd: How many meteorite dealers are there? In-Reply-To: <7ED3498F354F46B587967B68230CBB6E@den> References: <80FA1705985D436584F7279F35A42527@den> <20080709202602.100470@gmx.net> <7ED3498F354F46B587967B68230CBB6E@den> Message-ID: <20080709230151.248470@gmx.net> > Can you tell the MeteoriteMan is a dealer or the collector is the > MeteoriteMan? Is there a borderline? Exactly this is what I called into question! :-) Any suggestions for a definition of "dealer"? Alex Berlin/Germany ...who thinks there are more than those mentioned "dealers" on that list, but then again, where is the borderline, in terms of, may be, common sense and understanding? So any thoughts and ideas are welcome here.... From riffraff at timewarp.de Wed Jul 9 19:54:54 2008 From: riffraff at timewarp.de (Norbert Classen) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 01:54:54 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fwd: How many meteorite dealers are there? In-Reply-To: <20080709230151.248470@gmx.net> Message-ID: <000001c8e21f$31005cb0$2002a8c0@lunatic> Hi Alex, and All, A very good question, and I believe there's an answer to that. But let's start by asking some more questions: If you sell a T-shirt or a pair of Jeans on eBay from time to time, does this make you a commercial dealer, or even part of the textil business/industry? If you sell a used book once in a while, does this make you a book seller? Surely not. If you have a registered business for selling meteorites (or minerals) you might consider yourself a commercial seller (dealer), if you don't you are probably no "dealer", but just a private person/collector who sells a rock/meteorite sample once in a while. So, do you have a commercial eBay account, or a private account? It's that simple. I don't know for other countries, but in Germany there's a clear distinction (set by the tax authorities): if you are making a profit with it you have a business and you are considered to be a "H?ndler" (commercial seller). If you are spending more on a hobby than you earn with your related sales you are considered a "Liebhaber" (hobbyist), and they won't even tax your related income because you are making zero profit with your once in a while sales. So I guess some people need to re-consider the real meaning of the word "dealer" in a social and economical context. If we are talking of commercial sellers, and people who make a real profit by selling meteorites there are probaly not as many "meteorite dealers" as you might think. Just my two cents, Norbert -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Can you tell the MeteoriteMan is a dealer or the collector is the > MeteoriteMan? Is there a borderline? Exactly this is what I called into question! :-) Any suggestions for a definition of "dealer"? Alex Berlin/Germany ...who thinks there are more than those mentioned "dealers" on that list, but then again, where is the borderline, in terms of, may be, common sense and understanding? So any thoughts and ideas are welcome here.... From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Wed Jul 9 20:26:20 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 17:26:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Orbiting HiRISE Camera Saw Phoenix Heat Shield in Freefall Message-ID: <200807100026.RAA04663@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> FROM: Lori Stiles (520-360-0574; lstiles at u.arizona.edu) Orbiting HiRISE Camera Saw Phoenix Heat Shield in Freefall University of Arizona July 9, 2008 Scientists running the High Resolution Imaging Science Experiment, known as HiRISE, on NASA's Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter have processed more details in an amazing image their camera captured as the Phoenix spacecraft descended through Mars' atmosphere during its landing on May 25, 2008. New analysis has turned up what likely is Phoenix's heat shield falling toward Mars' surface, they conclude. HiRISE, run from The University of Arizona, made history by taking the first image of a spacecraft as it descended toward the surface of another planetary body. The image shows NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander, also run from the UA, when the spacecraft was still tucked inside its aeroshell, suspended from its parachute, at 4:36 p.m. Pacific Daylight Time on landing day. Although Phoenix appears to be descending into an impressive impact crater, it actually landed 20 kilometers, or 12 miles, away. Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter was about 760 kilometers, or 475 miles, away when it pointed the HiRISE camera obliquely toward the descending Phoenix lander. The camera viewed through the hazy Martian atmosphere at an angle 26 degrees above the horizon when it took the image. The 10-meter, or 30-foot, wide parachute was fully inflated. Even the lines connecting the parachute and aeroshell are visible, appearing bright against the darker, but fully illuminated Martian surface. In further analyzing the image, the HiRISE team, supported by personnel from NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory and Lockheed Martin Space Systems Co., discovered a small, dark dot located below the lander. Phoenix was equipped with a heat shield that protected the lander from burning up when it entered Mars' atmosphere and quickly decelerated because of friction. Phoenix discarded its heat shield after it deployed its parachute. "Given the timing of the image and of the release of the heat shield, as well as the size and the darkness of the spot compared to any other dark spot in the vicinity, we conclude that HiRISE also captured Phoenix's heat shield in freefall," said HiRISE principal investigator Alfred McEwen of the UA's Lunar and Planetary Laboratory. The multigigabyte HiRISE image also includes a portion recorded by red, blue-green and infrared detectors, and scientists have processed that color part of the image. HiRISE's color bands missed the Phoenix spacecraft but do show frost or ice in the bowl of the relatively recent, 10-kilometer (6-mile) wide impact crater unofficially called "Heimdall." The frost shows up as blue in the false-color HiRISE data, and is visible on the right wall within the crater. The HiRISE camera doesn't distinguish between carbon dioxide frost and water frost, but another instrument called CRISM on the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter could. The new details and color in the Phoenix descent image can be found on the HiRISE Web site, http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu. The Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter mission is managed by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif., for NASA?s Science Mission Directorate. Lockheed Martin Space Systems is the prime contractor for the project and built the spacecraft. The University of Arizona operates HiRISE, which was built by Ball Aerospace and Technology Corp. WEBLINKS: HiRISE - http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter - http://www.nasa.gov/mro SCIENCE CONTACT: Alfred McEwen (520-621-4573; mcewen at lpl.arizona.edu) From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Wed Jul 9 20:30:56 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 17:30:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] MRO HiRISE Images - July 9, 2008 Message-ID: <200807100030.RAA05630@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> MARS RECONNAISSANCE ORBITER HIRISE IMAGES July 9, 2008 o Phoenix Descent with Color and the Heat Shield in Free-Fall http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/phoenix-descent-color.php o Geologic Contacts in Juventae Chasma http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_008708_1780 o Utopia Planitia LandformsFall in Hellas Basin http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_008452_2175 o Fall in Hellas Basin http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_008427_1380 All of the HiRISE images are archived here: http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ Information about the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter is online at http://www.nasa.gov/mro. The mission is managed by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, a division of the California Institute of Technology, for the NASA Science Mission Directorate, Washington, D.C. Lockheed Martin Space Systems, of Denver, is the prime contractor and built the spacecraft. HiRISE is operated by the University of Arizona. Ball Aerospace and Technologies Corp., of Boulder, Colo., built the HiRISE instrument. From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Wed Jul 9 20:39:44 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 17:39:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Study Puts Solar Spin on Asteroids, their Moons & Earth Impacts Message-ID: <200807100039.RAA07591@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> Office of University Communications University of Maryland Contacts: Lee Tune, 301-405-4679 For Immediate Release: July 9, 2008 Study Puts Solar Spin on Asteroids, their Moons & Earth Impacts COLLEGE PARK, Md. -- Asteroids with moons, which scientists call binary asteroids, are common in the solar system. A longstanding question has been how the majority of such moons are formed. In this week's issue of the journal Nature, a trio of astronomers from Maryland and France say the surprising answer is sunlight, which can increase or decrease the spin rate of an asteroid. Derek Richardson, of the University of Maryland, his former student Kevin Walsh, now Poincar? Fellow in the Planetology Group in the Cassiop?e Laboratory of CNRS at the C?te d'Azur Observatory, France, and that group's leader, co-author Patrick Michel outline a model showing that when solar energy "spins up" a "rubble pile" asteroid to a sufficiently fast rate, material is slung off from around the asteroid's equator. This process also exposes fresh material at the poles of the asteroid. If the spun off bits of asteroid rubble shed sufficient excess motion through collisions with each other, then the material coalesces into a satellite that continues to orbit its parent. Because the team's model closely matches observations from binary asteroids, it neatly fills in missing pieces to a solar system puzzle. And, it could have much more down-to-earth implications as well. The model gives information on the shapes and structure of near-Earth binary asteroids that could be vital should such a pair need to be deflected away from a collision course with Earth. Finally, the authors say, these findings suggest that a sample return mission to such a binary asteroid could bring back exposed pristine material from the poles of the parent asteroid, providing a chance to probe the internal composition of an asteroid without having to dig into it. Solar Spin Power It's estimated that about 15 per cent of near-Earth and main-belt asteroids with diameters less than 10 kilometers have satellite Scientists have determined that these small binary asteroid pairs were not formed at the beginning of the solar system, indicating that some process still at work must have created them. "It was at first thought the moons in these asteroid pairs probably formed through collisions and/or close encounters with planets," said Richardson, an associate professor of astronomy at the University of Maryland. "However, it was found that these mechanisms could not account for the large number of binary asteroids present among near-Earth and inner main belt asteroids." Recent studies have outlined a thermal process -- known as the YORP effect after the scientists (Yarkovsky, O'Keefe, Radzievskii, Paddack) who identified it -- by which sunlight can speed up or slow down an asteroid's spin. Widespread evidence of this mechanism can be seen in the notable abundance of both fast and slow rotators among [near-Earth asteroids] and small main belt asteroids, Walsh, Richardson and Michel write in the Nature paper. The trio modeled different types of 'rubble pile' asteroids -- chunks of rock held together by gravity. This work, supported by the National Science Foundation and NASA, as well as the European Space Agency and the French National Planetology Program, is the first to show how the slow spinup of such asteroids leads over millions of years to mass loss that can form binaries. "Our model almost exactly matches the observations of our test case, binary asteroid KW4, which was imaged incredibly well by the NSF-supported Arecibo radio telescope in Puerto Rico," Walsh said. Asteroid Deep Impacts "Based on our findings, the YORP effect appears to be the key to the origin of a large fraction of observed binaries," said Michel. "The implications are that binary asteroids are preferentially formed from aggregate objects [rubble piles], which agrees with the idea that such asteroids are quite porous. The porous nature of these asteroids has strong implications for defensive strategies if faced with an impact risk to Earth from such objects, because the energy required to deflect an asteroid depends sensitively on its internal structure," he said. Doublet craters formed by the nearly simultaneous impact of objects of comparable size can be found in a number of places on Earth, suggesting that binary asteroids have hit our planet in the past. Similar doublet craters also can be found on other planets. The authors say that their current findings also suggest that a space mission to a binary asteroid could bring back material that might shed new light on the solar system's early history. The oldest material in an asteroid should lie underneath its surface, explained Richardson, and the process of spinning off this surface material from the primary asteroid body to form its moon, or secondary body, should uncover the deeper older material. "Thus a mission to collect and return a sample from the primary body of such a binary asteroid could give us information about the older, more pristine material inside an asteroid, just as the University of Maryland-led Deep Impact misssion gave us information about the more pristine material inside a comet," Richardson said. Michel added, "Bringing back pristine material is the goal of our proposed Marco Polo mission, which is currently under study by the European Space Agency, in partnership with JAXA in Japan." IMAGE CAPTIONS: [Movie 1: http://www.astro.umd.edu/%7Ekwalsh/BinaryFormation.mpg (9.8MB)] Watch an animated model of the spin-up and binary formation from two views, on the left is an overhead view. The right pane of the movie looks at the equator of the primary body, which is also the plane in which the asteroid's satellite is formed. Courtesy of the authors. [Movie 2: http://echo.jpl.nasa.gov/%7Eostro/kw4_2001_060830.S3M.320.mov (4.6MB)] Animation of the KW4 system as viewed from Earth during May/June 2001 (with the actual star background and simulated solar illumination). Courtesy NASA [Image: http://www.newsdesk.umd.edu/images/Binary/clearwater_lakes.jpg (9KB)] These twin circular lakes in Quebec, Canada were formed by the impact of an asteroidal pair which slammed into the planet approximately 290 million years ago. Courtesy NASA From Metorman46 at aol.com Wed Jul 9 20:43:20 2008 From: Metorman46 at aol.com (Metorman46 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 20:43:20 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] My First Contact Message-ID: Hello Uwe; We are always where we are at,i think.WELCOME TO THE LIST!I look forward to your posts since i also mostly read and enjoy the posts,or not. Again welcome;Herman Archer IMCA # 2770 **************Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com! (http://www.tourtracker.com?NCID=aolmus00050000000112) From grf2 at verizon.net Wed Jul 9 22:16:28 2008 From: grf2 at verizon.net (Jerry) Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 22:16:28 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] My first contact In-Reply-To: <5t0a74p9nf28v4u5n6squ840o69m09pl7h@4ax.com> References: <5t0a74p9nf28v4u5n6squ840o69m09pl7h@4ax.com> Message-ID: <0397D4CEBDC640FFBE5CFE396B266E9A@Notebook> I'm just a fig newton? Jerry Flaherty ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darren Garrison" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 2:37 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] My first contact > On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 14:17:19 EDT, you wrote: > >>Am I here? >>Uwe > > That is a question men have been asking for all the ages. Am I here? > Some say > that we are the dream God dreams. If the dreamer awakes, do we continue > to > exist? Or maybe I am the dreamer, and all other people are just a figment > of my > feavered imagination-- if that be the case, you are not there. Of course, > if > you are there, you may feel the same about all of us-- and this reply, the > meteorite list, the universe itself is just an illusion brought about by > the > madding solitude of an ageless deity, a lone voice crying in the > wilderness, > seeking compainonship from the echoes of his own voice. > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From almitt at kconline.com Wed Jul 9 22:33:44 2008 From: almitt at kconline.com (ALMitt) Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 22:33:44 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fwd: How many meteorite dealers are there? Message-ID: <48757508.2040207@kconline.com> Hi Alex and all, I'd say there are about two or three hundred dealers. While my definition of a dealer is someone who has a tax license and is listed as a business in their state or country it's a little more complicated than that. There are certainly individuals who buy a quantity of a certain item and sell all but the one they want to keep (ok maybe two). While that might not be a dealer in the eyes of most if they are making a sale then those customers of this individual aren't buying from say Michael, Tim, the meteoriteman or me for example. That is taking a sale from out of the registered dealers who are out there, so those small time individuals "dealers" are most certainly a dealer. There are many collector/dealers and I am certainly one. I'd say there are fewer, very few, strictly dealers who don't collect. Of course you have your collectors who simply collect. Again just about every collector upgrades their collection in their collecting days. So if they don't trade in a piece or a similar piece they are buying, they usually offer the extra piece for sale so it can become cash to offset the new purchase or whatever. Keeping the piece is also an option. That again puts them in competition with the dealers that are doing business out there. I'm not sure what other dealers keep as inventory but I usually have about 5 to 6 figures in specimens at anyone given time. While that might not always be smart depending on the economy, it provides me with items to sell when someone is looking for something I might have. I've been selling items since 1988, was on Compuserve first and made sells there, later when the internet came along I didn't have any kind of spot on the net I sold from but went to areas and advertised to interested parties. So I guess I am one of the first dozen dealers out there. Bob Haag at one of the Tucson conventions told me there were over two dozen dealers dealing meteorites at that time. He was concerned. While my post has probably muddied the water still more I still think we have well over 200 dealers of meteorites of some kind or another. --AL Mitterling From paul at meteorite.com Thu Jul 10 01:54:08 2008 From: paul at meteorite.com (Paul Harris) Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 22:54:08 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] July Meteorite-Times Now Up Message-ID: <4875A400.7060808@meteorite.com> Dear List, The July issue of Meteorite-Times is now up. http://www.meteorite-times.com/ Thank you, Paul and Jim From mlblood at cox.net Thu Jul 10 02:19:29 2008 From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael L Blood) Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 23:19:29 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fwd: How many meteorite dealers are there? In-Reply-To: <000001c8e21f$31005cb0$2002a8c0@lunatic> Message-ID: Hi Norbert and all, In terms of the survey I conducted a few years ago with list Members, whether or not someone was a "meteorite dealer" Was left up to them - and there were a LOT of people who Reported themselves as meteorite dealers. I, personally, would consider having a meteorite web site Or a meteorite mailing list to be minimal as qualifying as a Meteorite dealer. Selling your upgraded collection pieces on Ebay occasionally would not cut it - however, if you sell meteorites On eBay on an ongoing basis, week after week, that would definitely Constitute a "dealer" and is exactly what Dean Bessey did for a very Long time before having a web site. HOWEVER, again, this topic (what constitutes a meteorite dealer) Can be found in the list archives and was discussed for days involving Many dozens if not hundreds of posts on the question. Best wishes, Michael on 7/9/08 4:54 PM, Norbert Classen at riffraff at timewarp.de wrote: > Hi Alex, and All, > > A very good question, and I believe there's an answer to that. But let's > start by asking some more questions: > > If you sell a T-shirt or a pair of Jeans on eBay from time to time, does > this make you a commercial dealer, or even part of the textil > business/industry? If you sell a used book once in a while, does this make > you a book seller? Surely not. > > If you have a registered business for selling meteorites (or minerals) you > might consider yourself a commercial seller (dealer), if you don't you are > probably no "dealer", but just a private person/collector who sells a > rock/meteorite sample once in a while. So, do you have a commercial eBay > account, or a private account? It's that simple. > > I don't know for other countries, but in Germany there's a clear distinction > (set by the tax authorities): if you are making a profit with it you have a > business and you are considered to be a "H?ndler" (commercial seller). If > you are spending more on a hobby than you earn with your related sales you > are considered a "Liebhaber" (hobbyist), and they won't even tax your > related income because you are making zero profit with your once in a while > sales. > > So I guess some people need to re-consider the real meaning of the word > "dealer" in a social and economical context. If we are talking of commercial > sellers, and people who make a real profit by selling meteorites there are > probaly not as many "meteorite dealers" as you might think. > > Just my two cents, > Norbert > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > >> Can you tell the MeteoriteMan is a dealer or the collector is the >> MeteoriteMan? Is there a borderline? > > Exactly this is what I called into question! :-) Any suggestions for a > definition of "dealer"? > > Alex > Berlin/Germany > > ...who thinks there are more than those mentioned "dealers" on that list, > but then again, where is the borderline, in terms of, may be, common sense > and understanding? So any thoughts and ideas are welcome here.... > Going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a car. From star-bits at tx.rr.com Thu Jul 10 02:34:48 2008 From: star-bits at tx.rr.com (star-bits at tx.rr.com) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 2:34:48 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Help With Gary Foote's Recovery! Message-ID: <2677217.1214111215671688970.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web07-z02> Greetings all I just added a few meteorites to ebay including a 0.40 gram martian shergottite for which the sales price will go to the Foote's paypal account. You can find it by searching "meteorite foote" on ebay. It closes next monday. Bid high and bid often. -- Eric Olson 610 W. Moore Rd Tucson AZ 85755 http://www.star-bits.com From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Thu Jul 10 07:02:11 2008 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 13:02:11 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fwd: How many meteorite dealers are there? In-Reply-To: <000001c8e21f$31005cb0$2002a8c0@lunatic> References: <20080709230151.248470@gmx.net> <000001c8e21f$31005cb0$2002a8c0@lunatic> Message-ID: <009701c8e27c$67c03150$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Maybe a more practical distinction?: Someone, who fully or partially makes a living from selling meteorites, is a dealer. Someone, who sells meteorites to refund and to enlarge his collection, is a collector-dealer or dealer-collector. Someone, who has meteorite, but isn't selling at all, is a collector Someone, who has no meteorites and doesn't sell, can be a happy man too. Best! Martin -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Norbert Classen Gesendet: Donnerstag, 10. Juli 2008 01:55 An: 'Alexander Seidel'; 'Timothy Heitz'; mlblood at cox.net; Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Fwd: How many meteorite dealers are there? Hi Alex, and All, A very good question, and I believe there's an answer to that. But let's start by asking some more questions: If you sell a T-shirt or a pair of Jeans on eBay from time to time, does this make you a commercial dealer, or even part of the textil business/industry? If you sell a used book once in a while, does this make you a book seller? Surely not. If you have a registered business for selling meteorites (or minerals) you might consider yourself a commercial seller (dealer), if you don't you are probably no "dealer", but just a private person/collector who sells a rock/meteorite sample once in a while. So, do you have a commercial eBay account, or a private account? It's that simple. I don't know for other countries, but in Germany there's a clear distinction (set by the tax authorities): if you are making a profit with it you have a business and you are considered to be a "H?ndler" (commercial seller). If you are spending more on a hobby than you earn with your related sales you are considered a "Liebhaber" (hobbyist), and they won't even tax your related income because you are making zero profit with your once in a while sales. So I guess some people need to re-consider the real meaning of the word "dealer" in a social and economical context. If we are talking of commercial sellers, and people who make a real profit by selling meteorites there are probaly not as many "meteorite dealers" as you might think. Just my two cents, Norbert From nwa482 at comcast.net Thu Jul 10 07:56:08 2008 From: nwa482 at comcast.net (Jim Strope) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 07:56:08 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Ebay Auctions ending - Planetaries etc Message-ID: <000201c8e283$f10f3d00$0202a8c0@DJQVK441> Good Morning All........ I have auctions ending tonight, ebay ID catchafallingstar.com. ALL started at just 99 Cents!!! FULL RECAP: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZcatchafallingstar.com Of special note, I have a 3 Planetaries to offer this time: NWA 2995 Lunar, has BRILLIANT Anorthositic clast: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200234259681 NWA 2977 Lunar Gabbro: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200234259282 NWA 2986 Martian Shergottite: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200234171268 Plus many more. Including four of the Meteorite Medals/Coins started at no reserve: http://members.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPage&userid=catchafallingstar.com Thanks for looking ................ Jim Strope http://www.catchafallingstar.com From axelsson at acc.umu.se Thu Jul 10 09:14:58 2008 From: axelsson at acc.umu.se (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=F6ran_Axelsson?=) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 15:14:58 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] meteorite hunting in Western Australia Message-ID: <48760B52.60501@acc.umu.se> Hi list! I'm currently sitting 50 meters from the Indian Ocean and planning my vacation in Australia. In about a week I will have a lot of free time and I wanted to spend one week hunting for meteorites here in western Australia. I know that I probably can't bring any stones back home but I still want to hunt. Is there any good places to hunt between Perth and Kalgoorlie or in that area? Any other places in Western Australia that I should visit? Is there any description of the meteorite field in Camel Donga? That is an area I would like to spend a couple of days in. Any other tips for me? Apart from meteorite hunting, I'm invited to a wedding and I'm going to hunt for gold so I have my metal detector with me. /G?ran From mpg444 at yahoo.com Thu Jul 10 12:04:34 2008 From: mpg444 at yahoo.com (Mike Groetz) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 09:04:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] My first contact In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <630442.58074.qm@web33003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> No, you are there. ;-) --- On Wed, 7/9/08, M42protosun at aol.com wrote: > From: M42protosun at aol.com > Subject: [meteorite-list] My first contact > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Wednesday, July 9, 2008, 2:17 PM > Am I here? > Uwe > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From MeteorHntr at aol.com Thu Jul 10 12:13:58 2008 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 12:13:58 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Fwd: How many meteorite dealers are there? Message-ID: Martin, Is there actually any PROOF that your last statement (below) is true? I think we should avoid speculation and stick to documented facts when posting on the list! Steve #1 In a message dated 7/10/2008 6:02:52 A.M. Central Daylight Time, altmann at meteorite-martin.de writes: ...Someone, who has no meteorites and doesn't sell, can be a happy man too. Best! Martin **************Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com! (http://www.tourtracker.com?NCID=aolmus00050000000112) From MeteorHntr at aol.com Thu Jul 10 12:16:55 2008 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 12:16:55 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Fwd: How many meteorite dealers are there? Message-ID: OOOppps, I forgot to put the "JOKE WARNING" in the subject line and more warnings before and after the joke in my last post. I am sorry if I offended anyone. It was ONLY a joke. Steve #1 In a message dated 7/10/2008 11:14:54 A.M. Central Daylight Time, MeteorHntr at aol.com writes: Martin, Is there actually any PROOF that your last statement (below) is true? I think we should avoid speculation and stick to documented facts when posting on the list! Steve #1 In a message dated 7/10/2008 6:02:52 A.M. Central Daylight Time, altmann at meteorite-martin.de writes: ...Someone, who has no meteorites and doesn't sell, can be a happy man too. Best! Martin **************Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com! (http://www.tourtracker.com?NCID=aolmus00050000000112) ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list **************Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com! (http://www.tourtracker.com?NCID=aolmus00050000000112) From libawc at emory.edu Thu Jul 10 12:37:54 2008 From: libawc at emory.edu (Anita D. Westlake) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 12:37:54 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fwd: How many meteorite dealers are there? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <00a901c8e2ab$4d4176c0$e7c46440$@edu> I agree. I thought that last sentence was pure fabrication without any basis in fact. Anita -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of MeteorHntr at aol.com Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 12:14 PM To: altmann at meteorite-martin.de; Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fwd: How many meteorite dealers are there? Martin, Is there actually any PROOF that your last statement (below) is true? I think we should avoid speculation and stick to documented facts when posting on the list! Steve #1 In a message dated 7/10/2008 6:02:52 A.M. Central Daylight Time, altmann at meteorite-martin.de writes: ...Someone, who has no meteorites and doesn't sell, can be a happy man too. Best! Martin **************Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com! (http://www.tourtracker.com?NCID=aolmus00050000000112) ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From pshugar at clearwire.net Wed Jul 9 23:30:26 2008 From: pshugar at clearwire.net (Pete Shugar) Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 22:30:26 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] To deal or not to deal, that is the question Message-ID: <002a01c8e2ae$4f5d2370$0401a8c0@portable> Well, I shall try not to muddy the H2O. When I buy a piece, it goes into a black hole, never to be sold again. I did once trade two "In the Skies We Trust" coins for one with a lower serial number. Since I did that one trade in over 2 years of collecting, does this make me a collector? I hope not as I would hate to lose my amateur status. Pete From carldebtucson at yahoo.com Thu Jul 10 13:16:01 2008 From: carldebtucson at yahoo.com (Carl Esparza) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 10:16:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] THE MOON IS NO LONGER A DRY COUNTY? In-Reply-To: <002201c8e211$e986dbf0$db5de146@ATARIENGINE> Message-ID: <47427.65135.qm@web45104.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Sterling, If these samples truly originated on the moon. doesn't ?this mean "back to the old drawing board"? Carl --- On Wed, 7/9/08, Sterling K. Webb wrote: From: Sterling K. Webb Subject: [meteorite-list] THE MOON IS NO LONGER A DRY COUNTY? To: "Meteorite List" Date: Wednesday, July 9, 2008, 3:19 PM Hi, The absence of water in the bulk composition of the Moon is a long-held truism -- the driest body in the Solar System. We've always believed, and the evidence has supported, the notion that due to its violent origin all water (and volatiles) were lost. Now, someone's found water in "Moon Rocks." Water is discovered in Moon Samples http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/080709-moon-water.html Sterling K. Webb ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From rsvp321 at hotmail.com Thu Jul 10 14:23:19 2008 From: rsvp321 at hotmail.com (Pete Pete) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 14:23:19 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fwd: How many meteorite dealers are there? In-Reply-To: <00a901c8e2ab$4d4176c0$e7c46440$@edu> References: <00a901c8e2ab$4d4176c0$e7c46440$@edu> Message-ID: Someone without meteorite(s) = Unhappy someone. The new Drake Equation > From: libawc at emory.edu > To: MeteorHntr at aol.com; altmann at meteorite-martin.de; Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 12:37:54 -0400 > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fwd: How many meteorite dealers are there? > > I agree. I thought that last sentence was pure fabrication without any basis > in fact. > Anita > > -----Original Message----- > From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of > MeteorHntr at aol.com > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 12:14 PM > To: altmann at meteorite-martin.de; Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fwd: How many meteorite dealers are there? > > Martin, > > Is there actually any PROOF that your last statement (below) is true? > > I think we should avoid speculation and stick to documented facts when > posting on the list! > > Steve #1 > > > > In a message dated 7/10/2008 6:02:52 A.M. Central Daylight Time, > altmann at meteorite-martin.de writes: > > > ...Someone, who has no meteorites and doesn't sell, > can be a happy man too. > > Best! > Martin > > > > > **************Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music > > scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com! > (http://www.tourtracker.com?NCID=aolmus00050000000112) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _________________________________________________________________ From mexicodoug at aim.com Thu Jul 10 16:22:02 2008 From: mexicodoug at aim.com (mexicodoug at aim.com) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 16:22:02 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Pairing S-Type Asteroids to OC's (from Arkansas) Message-ID: <8CAB0E1BF70D254-1BF0-2906@webmail-db04.sysops.aol.com> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/07/080710103903.htm The press release was confusing to me at first, highlighting the Fayetteville H4 (fall, Arkansas) meteorite. Perhaps they did because of being fresh and closer to the surface (?) in the parent body model. Not sure why the 1270 Datura family, etc., would be expected to be from the relatively rarer surface of the original parent body vs more common heat altered interior). In any caseit seems they are NOT claiming that (1270) Datura is the parent body to any of our meteorites (how could it be - don't virtually all ordinary chondrites have CRE's of floating around as meteoroids well over 1 million years?) However, it seems they are pointint out that because it is an S-type asteroid that has apparently suffered a collision only 450,000 years ago(which was shown by other researcher a studying the probabilities of members' orbits couple of years ago), it gives an opportunity to study fresher material of this most common high silicate asteroid type by telescopic spectroscopy, and they had an opportunity to take the spectra. I guess they only look at the 0.5 and 1 um peak because it is more sensitive to space weathering (?), but this isn't too clear either. (the authors didn't extend it to the typical 2.5 microns where some good stuff is visible - at least not in figure in the press release). In any case, their proposed contribution seems that they measured spectra of theyoung Datura family and compared it to ordinary chondrite spectra and got a better match than ever before helping to solve the conjecture that the common asteroid class (second only to supposed carbonaceous chondrites typed asteroids) should be paired to common meteorites. Hopefully they make a case for a trend in asteroid reflectance spectra vs. age, vs. a one hit wonder, but there still seem to be more complexities to be ironed out regarding what meteorite is appropriate to compare to what asteroid in the clan, IMO. Maybe Fayetteville was just selected because it is what they had access to... Article sounds like it will be a good one. Comments? Best wishes, Doug PS Interestingly, Wikipedia (at this moment - no doubt it will be fixed by someone reading this) says the Datura cluster formed 450 MILLION years ago and a probable source of zodiacal dust.... Maybe Wikipedia can't be trusted yet again, once the dust has settled :) From dragonsoup at msn.com Thu Jul 10 16:31:29 2008 From: dragonsoup at msn.com (Maria Haas) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 13:31:29 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Help With Gary Foote's Recovery! Message-ID: Hello Everyone, Please send good thoughts towards Vermont, USA as Gary is being operated on again today. As you can imagine, Cynthia (CJ) has been taking care of Gary so she has not responded to all of your kind emails and I suspect it will take some time for their situation to calm down. She asked me to thank everyone who has emailed and sent donations for her and Gary and will answer emails as she can. I have considered the best ways to handle this particular fundraiser and I could use your input. A couple of people have donated spectacular items to help raise money and I'm trying to figure out how best to give them away. These are our options right now: 1. Would you rather I give the largest item away to the highest bidder, the second largest item to the second highest bidder, etc. (a great idea from Michael Blood), 2. Would you rather I put together a small raffle? I could close it out with a drawing at the Denver show in September. 3. Would you rather I just sell the items through a silent auction? I just need to know which would you prefer. Just to let you know what has already been donated: - An original painting(!) of the Tagish Lake fall by Jerry Armstrong You can see his work at (http://michaelbloodmeteorites.com/JerryArmstrong.html and http://www.fallingrocks.com/paintings.htm - A gold-finish Nininger coin donated by Rob Wesel. Only 10 gold-finish coins were made! It's is similar to this one: http://www.nakhladogmeteorites.com/catalog/nincoin.htm Should you have any meteorites or meteorite-related items you could donate, please contact me and I'll gladly give them away, sell them, or raffle them off to help Gary! Eric Olson has a crusted individual Martian NWA 2987 on eBay right now and will donate the proceeds. Please check it out at http://cgi.ebay.com/NWA-2987-martian-meteorite-crusted-individual-foote_W0QQitemZ230270013735QQihZ013QQcategoryZ3239QQtcZphotoQQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Or: http://tinyurl.com/6rxy3d Also, their grocery store is over 18 miles away from their home and is named Hanneford's. If you'd like to purchase a grocery gift card, you can call Hanneford's at 1 (888) 646-2577. Have them issue the card in Cynthia Foote's name for the Morrisville, Vermont store. The gift card service center will have the card ready for her to pick up. Hanneford's website and info about the gift cards is at http://www.hannaford.com/Contents/Our_Stores/Gift_Cards/index.shtml. Please let me know that you've sent a card and I will make sure CJ knows it is there. Thank you very much! Maria From M42protosun at aol.com Thu Jul 10 17:13:07 2008 From: M42protosun at aol.com (M42protosun at aol.com) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 17:13:07 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Fwd: How many meteorite dealers are there? Message-ID: Good evening list, In my mind, nobody can give a true number of meteorite dealers. Asume that we are talking only about professionals. Are they all meteorite dealers? I think no! You can sell a meteorite only, if you have the sureness that the piece is a meteorite. Otherwise you are a mineral seller (dealer). And that is the problem! There is no gapless tracking information about the most (small) items. 1. If a piece of rock contains chondrules it must not be a meteorite because some complex sediments or some porphyric contain chondrule-like pebbels 2. igneous rock may have a fusion crust different in color of its interieur, 3. Haematite-Magnetite clusters can show on a polished cut a hexagonale texture like Widmanstaetten 4. Regmaglypte-like buckles can be on a piece of metal of a nade from WWII time 5. to be the member of IMCA or other parties gives not the certitude for the buyer, that he will buy a meteorite. Normally, if the gapless tracking is interrupted, a new certificate must be produced to start a new gapless tracking for the item. But this is not given in the market. So, if you have found a number of meteorite dealers, devide this by the number of fingers you have. The result may be an estimated value with a certain trueth. After beginning collecting meteorites, I bought a lot of rebbish stuff for expensive money. Now I have my own small LAB for physical, chemical and petrological researches. This gives me some sureness that the seller from whom I buy might be a true METEORITE DEALER. Uwe From eric at meteoritewatch.com Thu Jul 10 17:18:43 2008 From: eric at meteoritewatch.com (Eric Wichman) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 14:18:43 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: 25% Off Sale ALL Meteorites In The Store In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48767CB3.2070601@meteoritewatch.com> Hi All, I've got to move some NWA meteorites in my once per month inventory clearance. 25% Off ALL meteorites in the store. Shipping is Flat Rate $5 for all the meteorites you buy to anywhere in the USA. NWA XXX (some nicely crusted pieces) NWA 869 Canyon Diablo NWA Mesosiderite (very nice!!!) I only have 65.7g of this material so it won't last long. Take all for only $90.74 I'll be having this sale once per month, so next time is 30 days away. Permanent Link: http://www.meteoritesusa.com/meteorites-for-sale/ Bookmark this link as I'm constantly adding more meteorites. Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA 904-236-5394 Office 909-697-6577 Mobile 909-697-2077 Fax P.S. * Minimum Order 2 kilos: *Meteorites are sorted by quality. Each category is priced according to that quality. Read below for info. #########################################TABLE####################################### NWA XXX Meteorites: U1 = $60 kilo (shipped) UNSORTED - 5-10% crusted pieces, some weathering, good for educational programs, giveaways, promotions U2 = $90 kilo (shipped) SORTED - 10%-20% crusted + some desert varnished pieces, Good sellers! U3 = $210 kilo (shipped) SORTED - 50%-100% crusted, nice chondrules, some with thumbprints, nice pieces, great for jewelry, display and collections U4 = $110 kilo (shipped) SORTED - Whole Individuals and/or Nice slices of NWA with great chondrules, 10%-40% with crust U5 = $190 kilo (shipped) SORTED - LOW STOCK Usually 70%-100% with fusion crust, big chondrules, thumbprints, high or low iron chondrites, or any combination of the above U6 = $120 kilo (shipped) SORTED - 10%-20% crusted + Some Larger Whole Pieces & Fragments #########################################TABLE####################################### ------------------- Order Example: Quantity First 2 - Kilos "U5" = $380 1 - Kilo "U2" = $90 ------------------- Total: $470 I'll ship up to 2 kilos Free! After that it's $6 per kilo to ship Inside the U.S. Delivery time is 3-5 business days and I ship SAME DAY payment is received! From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Thu Jul 10 17:17:51 2008 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 16:17:51 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] THE MOON IS NO LONGER A DRY COUNTY? References: <47427.65135.qm@web45104.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <008901c8e2d2$6a085680$db5de146@ATARIENGINE> Hi, Carl, List, The samples are the famous "orange soil" from Apollo 17, found by Harrison Schmidt. The soil was orange because of tiny orange glass beads in it. The beads are one of the few indicators of ancient lunar volcanism. You get glass beads in volcanoes because tiny drops of molten ejecta cool so fast they can't recrystalize. Volcanic glass on Earth is often "wet" and gassy rock because it's ejected into an atmosphere that retards the loss of water. On the Moon, lava will lose more of its water, being ejected into a vacuum. You can "back-calculate" how much water there was in the lava before it reached the lunar surface. Guess what? The lunar lava was as wet as terrestrial lava, or maybe only half as wet, but WET. Since lava is just the pressurized melt of whatever is down there, that says the deep rock of the Moon has a similar amount of water in its make-up as the Earth. And the Earth is one wet planet. You can expect a flurry of argument and repeats of the measurements and the usual flap. If it holds up, it has a theoretical and a practical implication. It makes the "Big Crash" Theory of the Moon's origin more complicated and problematical; it will generate new "modeling." (I've already thought of a theory but I have no supercomputers to find out if it's silly.) In practical terms, it means there may be deep water on the Moon, a very handy thing to have if you could reach it by drilling at some point in the future. The total absence of accessible water is (or rather will be) the chief limitation to human expansion on the Moon in the short term. Otherwise, you've got everything you need: free real estate, a supply of constant and virtually unlimited solar power, untouched natural resources, abundant vacuum -- what more could anyone want? Water. Sterling K. Webb ----------------------------------------------------------------- Historical note: the water content they measured is consistent with the very low end of the water content of tektites, so if there's anybody still alive out there that believes in the "lunar volcano" origin theory of tektites... hang in there. ----------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl Esparza" To: "Sterling K. Webb" Cc: "list" Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 12:16 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] THE MOON IS NO LONGER A DRY COUNTY? Sterling, If these samples truly originated on the moon. doesn't this mean "back to the old drawing board"? Carl --- On Wed, 7/9/08, Sterling K. Webb wrote: From: Sterling K. Webb Subject: [meteorite-list] THE MOON IS NO LONGER A DRY COUNTY? To: "Meteorite List" Date: Wednesday, July 9, 2008, 3:19 PM Hi, The absence of water in the bulk composition of the Moon is a long-held truism -- the driest body in the Solar System. We've always believed, and the evidence has supported, the notion that due to its violent origin all water (and volatiles) were lost. Now, someone's found water in "Moon Rocks." Water is discovered in Moon Samples http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/080709-moon-water.html Sterling K. Webb ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mexicodoug at aim.com Thu Jul 10 18:25:06 2008 From: mexicodoug at aim.com (mexicodoug at aim.com) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 18:25:06 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Pairing ?-Type Asteroids to OC's (from Arkansas) In-Reply-To: <8CAB0E1BF70D254-1BF0-2906@webmail-db04.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CAB0E1BF70D254-1BF0-2906@webmail-db04.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CAB0F2EFFA2B56-F98-27C@webmail-md19.sysops.aol.com> Hi Listees: There may be a little more going on here than this quickly published note with such a glorious title "Discovery of the Source of the Most Common Meteorites". It seemed a little odd and quickly put together. Probably is some good work, but ... I see next week at the Asteroids, Comets and Meteors Meeting, http://acm2008.jhuapl.edu/ is the following paper: PHYSICAL CHARACTERIZATION OF VERY YOUNG ASTEROID FAMILIES. P. Vernazza1, R. P. Binzel2, A. Rossi3, M. Birlan4, S. Fornasier5, M. Fulchignoni5, S. Renner6. http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/acm2008/pdf/8044.pdf In which the Datura and other families have their spectra taken and studies. Hmmm ... sounds like someone may be looking for some extra press a few days before the ACM meeting. Vernazza, Binzel, et al group has done the spectra up to 2.5 microns and looks like a much more comprehensive work. Also in my original comments, I mentioned S-Type Asteroids. I take that back until it can be confirmed - from the press release they may be Q-Type a stony sub-group (with metal), and uncommon subcategory. Time will shortly expose more of this if it hasn't already. Best wishes, Doug I wrote: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/07/080710103903.htm? ? The press release was confusing to me at first, highlighting the Fayetteville H4 (fall, Arkansas) meteorite. Perhaps they did because of being fresh and closer to the surface (?) in the parent body model. Not sure why the 1270 Datura family, etc., would be expected to be from the relatively rarer surface of the original parent body vs more common heat altered interior).? ? In any caseit seems they are NOT claiming that (1270) Datura is the parent body to any of our meteorites (how could it be - don't virtually all ordinary chondrites have CRE's of floating around as meteoroids well over 1 million years?)? ? However, it seems they are pointint out that because it is an S-type asteroid that has apparently suffered a collision only 450,000 years ago(which was shown by other researcher a studying the probabilities of members' orbits couple of years ago), it gives an opportunity to study fresher material of this most common high silicate asteroid type by telescopic spectroscopy, and they had an opportunity to take the spectra. I guess they only look at the 0.5 and 1 um peak because it is more sensitive to space weathering (?), but this isn't too clear either. (the authors didn't extend it to the typical 2.5 microns where some good stuff is visible - at least not in figure in the press release).? ? In any case, their proposed contribution seems that they measured spectra of theyoung Datura family and compared it to ordinary chondrite spectra and got a better match than ever before helping to solve the conjecture that the common asteroid class (second only to supposed carbonaceous chondrites typed asteroids) should be paired to common meteorites. Hopefully they make a case for a trend in asteroid reflectance spectra vs. age, vs. a one hit wonder, but there still seem to be more complexities to be ironed out regarding what meteorite is appropriate to compare to what asteroid in the clan, IMO. Maybe Fayetteville was just selected because it is what they had access to... Article sounds like it will be a good one. Comments?? ? Best wishes, Doug? ? PS Interestingly, Wikipedia (at this moment - no doubt it will be fixed by someone reading this) says the Datura cluster formed 450 MILLION years ago and a probable source of zodiacal dust.... Maybe Wikipedia can't be trusted yet again, once the dust has settled :)? ? ? ______________________________________________? http://www.meteoritecentral.com? Meteorite-list mailing list? Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com? http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list? From mpg444 at yahoo.com Thu Jul 10 18:30:44 2008 From: mpg444 at yahoo.com (Mike Groetz) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 15:30:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Source Of The Most Common Meteorites Discovered Message-ID: <669697.20972.qm@web33007.mail.mud.yahoo.com> This is very interesting. I never thought about the "geologic processes that occur AFTER the meteorites are ejected from their asteroidal parent body". Mike http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/07/080710103903.htm Source Of The Most Common Meteorites Discovered ScienceDaily (July 10, 2008) ? When observing with the GEMINI telescopes, two astronomers from Brazil and the United States discovered for the first time asteroids that are similar to ?ordinary chondrites?, the most common meteorites found on Earth. Until now, astronomers have failed to identify their asteroidal sources because of the various geologic processes that occur after the meteorites are ejected from their asteroidal parent body. Astronomy & Astrophysics is publishing the first discovery by T. Moth?-Diniz (Brazil) and D. Nesvorn? (USA) of asteroids with a spectrum similar to that of ordinary chondrites, the meteoritic material that most resembles the composition of our Sun. Most of the meteorites that we collect on Earth come from the main belt of asteroids located between Mars and Jupiter [1]. They were ejected from their asteroidal ?parent body? after a collision, were injected into a new orbit, and they finally felt onto the Earth. Meteorites are a major tool for knowing the history of the solar system because their composition is a record of past geologic processes that occurred while they were still incorporated in the parent asteroid. One fundamental difficulty is that we do not know exactly where the majority of meteorite specimens come from within the asteroidal main belt. For many years, astronomers failed to discover the parent body of the most common meteorites, the ordinary chondrites that represent 75% of all the collected meteorites. To find the source asteroid of a meteorite, astronomers must compare the spectra of the meteorite specimen to those of asteroids. This is a difficult task because meteorites and their parent bodies underwent different processes after the meteorite was ejected. In particular, asteroidal surfaces are known to be altered by a process called ?space weathering?, which is probably caused by micrometeorite and solar wind action that progressively transforms the spectra of asteroidal surfaces. Hence, the spectral properties of asteroids become different from those of their associated meteorites, making the identification of asteroidal parent body more difficult. Collisions are the main process to affect asteroids. As a consequence of a strong impact, an asteroid can be broken up, its fragments following the same orbit as the primary asteroid. These fragments constitute what astronomers call ?asteroid families?. Until recently, most of the known asteroid families have been very old (they were formed 100 million to billions of years ago). Indeed, younger families are more difficult to detect because asteroids are closer to each other [2]. In 2006, four new, extremely young asteroid families were identified, with an age ranging from 50000 to 600000 years. These fragments should be less affected than older families by space weathering after the initial breakup. Moth?-Diniz and Nesvorn? then observed these asteroids, using the GEMINI telescopes (one located in Hawaii, the other in Chile), and obtained visible spectra. They compared the asteroids spectra to the one of an ordinary chondrite (the Fayetteville meteorite [3]) and found good agreement. This discovery is the first observational match between the most common meteorites and asteroids in the main belt. It also confirms the role of space weathering in altering asteroid surfaces. Identifying the asteroidal parent body of a meteorite is a unique tool when studying the history of our solar system because one can infer both the time of geological events (from the meteorite that can be analyzed through datation techniques) and their location in the solar system (from the location of the parent asteroid). There are only a few exceptions, including the example of the famous meteorites coming from Mars. After the primary asteroid is disrupted, the fragments move away from each other. The older the collision, the greater the distance between fragments. Meteorites are named for the place they were collected. The Fayetteville meteorite fell near Fayetteville, Arkansas, on December 26, 1934. From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Thu Jul 10 19:20:41 2008 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 18:20:41 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Pairing ?-Type Asteroids to OC's (fromArkansas) References: <8CAB0E1BF70D254-1BF0-2906@webmail-db04.sysops.aol.com> <8CAB0F2EFFA2B56-F98-27C@webmail-md19.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <00a801c8e2e3$92880360$db5de146@ATARIENGINE> Here is the original article by T. Moth?-Diniz and D. Nesvorn? "Visible spectroscopy of extremely young asteroid families" It's freely accessible. Why read press releases? http://www.aanda.org/index.php?option=article&access=doi&doi=10.1051/0004-6361:200809934&view=pdf Sterling K. Webb ---------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 5:25 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Pairing ?-Type Asteroids to OC's (fromArkansas) Hi Listees: There may be a little more going on here than this quickly published note with such a glorious title "Discovery of the Source of the Most Common Meteorites". It seemed a little odd and quickly put together. Probably is some good work, but ... I see next week at the Asteroids, Comets and Meteors Meeting, http://acm2008.jhuapl.edu/ is the following paper: PHYSICAL CHARACTERIZATION OF VERY YOUNG ASTEROID FAMILIES. P. Vernazza1, R. P. Binzel2, A. Rossi3, M. Birlan4, S. Fornasier5, M. Fulchignoni5, S. Renner6. http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/acm2008/pdf/8044.pdf In which the Datura and other families have their spectra taken and studies. Hmmm ... sounds like someone may be looking for some extra press a few days before the ACM meeting. Vernazza, Binzel, et al group has done the spectra up to 2.5 microns and looks like a much more comprehensive work. Also in my original comments, I mentioned S-Type Asteroids. I take that back until it can be confirmed - from the press release they may be Q-Type a stony sub-group (with metal), and uncommon subcategory. Time will shortly expose more of this if it hasn't already. Best wishes, Doug I wrote: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/07/080710103903.htm The press release was confusing to me at first, highlighting the Fayetteville H4 (fall, Arkansas) meteorite. Perhaps they did because of being fresh and closer to the surface (?) in the parent body model. Not sure why the 1270 Datura family, etc., would be expected to be from the relatively rarer surface of the original parent body vs more common heat altered interior). In any caseit seems they are NOT claiming that (1270) Datura is the parent body to any of our meteorites (how could it be - don't virtually all ordinary chondrites have CRE's of floating around as meteoroids well over 1 million years?) However, it seems they are pointint out that because it is an S-type asteroid that has apparently suffered a collision only 450,000 years ago(which was shown by other researcher a studying the probabilities of members' orbits couple of years ago), it gives an opportunity to study fresher material of this most common high silicate asteroid type by telescopic spectroscopy, and they had an opportunity to take the spectra. I guess they only look at the 0.5 and 1 um peak because it is more sensitive to space weathering (?), but this isn't too clear either. (the authors didn't extend it to the typical 2.5 microns where some good stuff is visible - at least not in figure in the press release). In any case, their proposed contribution seems that they measured spectra of theyoung Datura family and compared it to ordinary chondrite spectra and got a better match than ever before helping to solve the conjecture that the common asteroid class (second only to supposed carbonaceous chondrites typed asteroids) should be paired to common meteorites. Hopefully they make a case for a trend in asteroid reflectance spectra vs. age, vs. a one hit wonder, but there still seem to be more complexities to be ironed out regarding what meteorite is appropriate to compare to what asteroid in the clan, IMO. Maybe Fayetteville was just selected because it is what they had access to... Article sounds like it will be a good one. Comments? Best wishes, Doug PS Interestingly, Wikipedia (at this moment - no doubt it will be fixed by someone reading this) says the Datura cluster formed 450 MILLION years ago and a probable source of zodiacal dust.... Maybe Wikipedia can't be trusted yet again, once the dust has settled :) ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteorites at optushome.com.au Thu Jul 10 20:02:45 2008 From: meteorites at optushome.com.au (Norbert & Heike Kammel) Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 10:02:45 +1000 Subject: [meteorite-list] meteorite hunting in Western Australia In-Reply-To: <48760B52.60501@acc.umu.se> References: <48760B52.60501@acc.umu.se> Message-ID: <4876A325.6050608@optushome.com.au> Hi Goeran/List, just a quick note to remind you that Federal laws protect meteorites found in Australia and it is an offence to export one without a permit. *In Western Australia and South Australia legislation means that meteorites are the property of the Government and must be lodged with an appropriate Museum.* In other States, the finder is able to keep a meteorite. Also please keep in mind that the areas are VERY remote and not so easy accessable. It is advisable to travel at least with two relyable 4WD's, one driver experienced in Outback travelling. Even though it is now winter time and often rainy carry enough water and food in case you get bogged. Also a SatPhone or HF Radio would be adviseable to carry. The better fields are more east from Kalgoolie, like the Camel Donga strewnfield, in the Nullarbor Plain. Anyway, Welcome to Australia, and have a great time. Best regards from Down-Under, Norbert Kammel IMCA # 3420 G?ran Axelsson wrote: > Hi list! > > I'm currently sitting 50 meters from the Indian Ocean and planning my > vacation in Australia. In about a week I will have a lot of free time > and I wanted to spend one week hunting for meteorites here in western > Australia. > I know that I probably can't bring any stones back home but I still > want to hunt. > > Is there any good places to hunt between Perth and Kalgoorlie or in > that area? > Any other places in Western Australia that I should visit? > > Is there any description of the meteorite field in Camel Donga? That > is an area I would like to spend a couple of days in. > > Any other tips for me? > > Apart from meteorite hunting, I'm invited to a wedding and I'm going > to hunt for gold so I have my metal detector with me. > > /G?ran > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Thu Jul 10 20:12:08 2008 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 19:12:08 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Pairing ?-Type Asteroids to OC's (fromArkansas) Message-ID: <00b601c8e2ea$c28945e0$db5de146@ATARIENGINE> Doug, List, Here is the another presentation article on the age and number of asteroid families by David Nesvorn? and William Bottke of SwRI: http://www.on.br/acm2005/presentation/R9.2.pdf Very colorful presentation, despite the fact that the document code contains the meta-title: "Design of a Locomotive Engine for Dalian Locomotive & Rolling Stock Works." Now, I'm trying to figure out why Salvador Dali would want SwRI to design a locomotive engine for him, and just what a Dalian Locomotive would look like... Sterling K. Webb ---------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 5:25 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Pairing ?-Type Asteroids to OC's (fromArkansas) Hi Listees: There may be a little more going on here than this quickly published note with such a glorious title "Discovery of the Source of the Most Common Meteorites". It seemed a little odd and quickly put together. Probably is some good work, but ... I see next week at the Asteroids, Comets and Meteors Meeting, http://acm2008.jhuapl.edu/ is the following paper: PHYSICAL CHARACTERIZATION OF VERY YOUNG ASTEROID FAMILIES. P. Vernazza1, R. P. Binzel2, A. Rossi3, M. Birlan4, S. Fornasier5, M. Fulchignoni5, S. Renner6. http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/acm2008/pdf/8044.pdf In which the Datura and other families have their spectra taken and studies. Hmmm ... sounds like someone may be looking for some extra press a few days before the ACM meeting. Vernazza, Binzel, et al group has done the spectra up to 2.5 microns and looks like a much more comprehensive work. Also in my original comments, I mentioned S-Type Asteroids. I take that back until it can be confirmed - from the press release they may be Q-Type a stony sub-group (with metal), and uncommon subcategory. Time will shortly expose more of this if it hasn't already. Best wishes, Doug I wrote: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/07/080710103903.htm The press release was confusing to me at first, highlighting the Fayetteville H4 (fall, Arkansas) meteorite. Perhaps they did because of being fresh and closer to the surface (?) in the parent body model. Not sure why the 1270 Datura family, etc., would be expected to be from the relatively rarer surface of the original parent body vs more common heat altered interior). In any caseit seems they are NOT claiming that (1270) Datura is the parent body to any of our meteorites (how could it be - don't virtually all ordinary chondrites have CRE's of floating around as meteoroids well over 1 million years?) However, it seems they are pointint out that because it is an S-type asteroid that has apparently suffered a collision only 450,000 years ago(which was shown by other researcher a studying the probabilities of members' orbits couple of years ago), it gives an opportunity to study fresher material of this most common high silicate asteroid type by telescopic spectroscopy, and they had an opportunity to take the spectra. I guess they only look at the 0.5 and 1 um peak because it is more sensitive to space weathering (?), but this isn't too clear either. (the authors didn't extend it to the typical 2.5 microns where some good stuff is visible - at least not in figure in the press release). In any case, their proposed contribution seems that they measured spectra of theyoung Datura family and compared it to ordinary chondrite spectra and got a better match than ever before helping to solve the conjecture that the common asteroid class (second only to supposed carbonaceous chondrites typed asteroids) should be paired to common meteorites. Hopefully they make a case for a trend in asteroid reflectance spectra vs. age, vs. a one hit wonder, but there still seem to be more complexities to be ironed out regarding what meteorite is appropriate to compare to what asteroid in the clan, IMO. Maybe Fayetteville was just selected because it is what they had access to... Article sounds like it will be a good one. Comments? Best wishes, Doug PS Interestingly, Wikipedia (at this moment - no doubt it will be fixed by someone reading this) says the Datura cluster formed 450 MILLION years ago and a probable source of zodiacal dust.... Maybe Wikipedia can't be trusted yet again, once the dust has settled :) ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From moonrock25 at webtv.net Thu Jul 10 20:29:04 2008 From: moonrock25 at webtv.net (Charlie Devine) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 20:29:04 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Sighting in Israel Message-ID: <17154-4876A950-1218@storefull-3313.bay.webtv.net> http://www.haartz.com/hasn/spages/1000206.html From moonrock25 at webtv.net Thu Jul 10 20:32:26 2008 From: moonrock25 at webtv.net (Charlie Devine) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 20:32:26 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Sighting in Israel Message-ID: <17155-4876AA1A-703@storefull-3313.bay.webtv.net> Sorry for the duplicate. The correct link: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1000206.html From mmurray at montrose.net Thu Jul 10 21:06:08 2008 From: mmurray at montrose.net (Michael Murray) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 19:06:08 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Sighting in Israel In-Reply-To: <17155-4876AA1A-703@storefull-3313.bay.webtv.net> References: <17155-4876AA1A-703@storefull-3313.bay.webtv.net> Message-ID: <33C7F07F-E3AA-4990-A8EC-3E1F7B43E85C@montrose.net> "and bafflement among astronomers who failed to predict it" Huh? Do they do that routinely or something? Mike in CO On Jul 10, 2008, at 6:32 PM, Charlie Devine wrote: > Sorry for the duplicate. The correct link: > > http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1000206.html > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From MeteorHntr at aol.com Thu Jul 10 21:24:53 2008 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 21:24:53 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] The New Space Race Message-ID: Hi All, This is an interesting article about how the US is losing the new space race: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtml?xml=/earth/2008/07/10/scinasa110.x ml I can't help but think that all the Chinese, Indiana, Japanese, Taiwanese, South Korean, Israeli, Brazilian and European kids are going to experience over the next few decades some of what the US kids experienced 40 years ago. Even this time around, more Russians will have TV sets to enjoy this as well. All this should have an interesting impact on the meteorite hobby as interest peaks in space related topics and the number of world-wide meteorite collectors grows proportionately. I think it is going to be interesting to see how this all unfolds. Maybe Michael Blood can expand on this topic in one of the upcoming Meteorite Trends some more? Godspeed! Steve Arnold #1 **************Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com! (http://www.tourtracker.com?NCID=aolmus00050000000112) From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Thu Jul 10 21:28:48 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 18:28:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander Uses Soil Probe and Swiss Scope Message-ID: <200807110128.SAA13743@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2008-130 NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander Uses Soil Probe and Swiss Scope Jet Propulsion Laboratory July 10, 2008 NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander has touched Martian soil with a fork-like probe for the first time and begun using a microscope that examines shapes of tiny particles by touching them. Phoenix's robotic arm pushed the fork-like probe's four spikes into undisturbed soil Tuesday as a validation test of the insertion procedure. The prongs of this thermal and electrical conductivity probe are about 1.5 centimeters, or half an inch, long. The science team will use the probe tool to assess how easily heat and electricity move through the soil from one spike to another. Such measurements can provide information about frozen or unfrozen water in the soil. The probe sits on a "knuckle" of the 2.35-meter-long (7.7-foot-long) robotic arm. Held up in the air, it has provided assessments of water vapor in the atmosphere several times since Phoenix's May 25 landing on far-northern Mars. Researchers anticipate getting the probe's first soil measurements following a second placement into the ground, planned as part of today's Phoenix activities on Mars. Phoenix also has returned the first image from its atomic force microscope. This Swiss-made microscope builds an image of the surface of a particle by sensing it with a sharp tip at the end of a spring, all microfabricated from a sliver of silicon. The sensor rides up and down following the contour of the surface, providing information about the target's shape. "The same day we first touched a target with the thermal and electrical conductivity probe, we first touched another target with a needle about three orders of magnitude smaller -- one of the tips of our atomic force microscope," said Michael Hecht of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif., lead scientist for the suite of instruments on Phoenix that includes both the conductivity probe and the microscopy station. The atomic force microscope can provide details of soil-particle shapes as small as about 100 nanometers, less than one-hundredth the width of a human hair. This is about 20 times smaller than what can be resolved with Phoenix's optical microscope, which has provided much higher-magnification imaging than anything seen on Mars previously. The first touch of an atomic force microscope tip to a substrate on the microscopy station's sample-presentation wheel served as a validation test. The substrate will be used to hold soil particles in place for inspection by the microscope. The microscope's first imaging began Wednesday and produced a calibration image of a grooved substrate. "It's just amazing when you think that the entire area in this image fits on an eyelash. I'm looking forward to exciting things to come," Hecht said. With these developments in the past two days, the spacecraft has put to use all the capabilities of its Microscopy, Electrochemistry and Conductivity Analyzer, or MECA, suite of instruments. Researchers have begun analyzing data this week from the second sample of soil tested by MECA's wet chemistry laboratory. Meanwhile, the Phoenix team is checking for the best method to gather a sample of Martian ice to analyze using the lander's Thermal and Evolved-Gas Analyzer, which heats samples and identifies vapors from them. Researchers are using Phoenix's robotic arm to clear off a patch of hard material uncovered in a shallow trench informally called "Snow White." They plan in coming days to begin using a motorized rasp on the back of the arm's scoop to loosen bits of the hard material, which is expected to be rich in frozen water. The atomic force microscope for Phoenix was provided by a consortium led by the University of Neuchatel, Switzerland. The Phoenix mission is led by Peter Smith of the University of Arizona with project management at JPL and development partnership at Lockheed Martin, Denver. International contributions come from the Canadian Space Agency; the University of Neuchatel; the universities of Copenhagen and Aarhus, Denmark; Max Planck Institute, Germany; and the Finnish Meteorological Institute. For more about Phoenix, visit: http://www.nasa.gov/phoenix and http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Media contacts: Guy Webster 818-354-6278 Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. guy.webster at jpl.nasa.gov Dwayne Brown 202-358-1726 NASA Headquarters, Washington dwayne.c.brown at nasa.gov Sara Hammond 520-626-1974 University of Arizona, Tucson shammond at lpl.arizona.edu 2008-130 From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Thu Jul 10 21:29:23 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 18:29:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Mission to Bring Back Soil Samples from Mars Gets 2018 Launch Message-ID: <200807110129.SAA13801@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://www.marsdaily.com/reports/Mission_to_bring_back_soil_samples_from_Mars_gets_2018_la APF July 9, 2008 Space experts on Wednesday set a date of 2018 for launching the Mars Sample Return mission, billed as the most complex and costliest exploration of the Red Planet ever planned. The unmanned mission aims to pick up soil and rocks from Mars and bring them back to Earth, where big labs can wring far more data from them than by remote control using small instruments on a scout vehicle. "2018 will start the era of Mars Sample Return," Doug Mc Cuistion, director of NASA's Mars Exploration Programme, told a press conference. The preliminary report, issued in Paris by a working group, sketched a mission profile and flight design but also cautioned that many challenges lay ahead. Its authors said that, regardless of the start date, it would take five years for the precious 500-gramme (1.1-pound) sample to be brought back to Earth and space powers had to pool resources to achieve the extraordinary goal. Stephane Janichewski, deputy director of France's National Centre for Space Studies (Cnes) said "at least a transatlantic cooperation" was needed between Europe and the United States to fulfil this "very challenging" project. "It's a sort of (Holy) Grail we are looking for," said Janichewski, referring to the project's scope. In the most optimistic scenario, a US Atlas A 551 rocket would lift off in 2018 carrying a mobile rover -- or alternatively, a non-mobile lander -- that would be dropped down to Mars to pick up samples selected to give the broadest picture possible of the planet's geological past. Included in the package would be a small rocket, a Mars Ascent Vehicle, that would later blast off with the sample onboard. In 2019, a European 5 ECA heavy rocket would take off, sending an orbiter to Mars. The Mars Ascent Vehicle would leave the Red Planet with the sample container and drop it off in Martian orbit, where it would be captured by the orbiter. The orbiter would then start the long haul back to Earth, eventually dropping off the sample in an "Earth Entry Vehicle" designed to survive the fiery descent through the terrestrial atmosphere. It would then be retrieved and analysed. Mars has exerted a fascination for thousands of years, reflected in ancient mythology and superstition. Scientists, too, are engrossed with Mars, as it is the most Earth-like planet in the Solar system. "Of the various places of interest for evaluating whether or not life exists or has existed elsewhere in the Universe, Mars is by far the most accessible," the preliminary planning report noted. The document says the cost would roughly range from 4.5 to eight billion dollars (three to 5.3 billion euros), "depending on the final requirements and international cooperative structure." From MeteorHntr at aol.com Thu Jul 10 21:51:51 2008 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 21:51:51 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Mission to Bring Back Soil Samples from Mars Gets 2018 L... Message-ID: Wow, Only $4.5 Billion (up to $8B) to return a single 500 gram SNC specimen! That would be $9 Million to $16 Million per gram. How many DIFFERENT SNC specimens could be found on planet Earth if $8,000,000,000 would be spent on hunting for them over the same period of time this project would take? Maybe a new, un-terrestrialized SNC would offer some new information that a Martian meteorite wouldn't, but $8 Billion dollars worth? Call me a bit skeptical, but I kind of doubt that any information would be worth that much. Especially if we are going to put humans on the surface of Mars a couple of years later. 1% of $8 Billion would only be $80,000,000. I bet we meteorite hunters collectively could find 50 new different Martian meteorites for $80,000,000 if someone would put up the reward money. And science would learn MORE from those 50 than they would from one single one. Where do I apply to compete for some of this crazy grant money? Somebody help me get some! Steve Arnold #1 Only In a message dated 7/10/2008 8:30:10 P.M. Central Daylight Time, baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov writes: http://www.marsdaily.com/reports/Mission_to_bring_back_soil_samples_from_Mars_ gets_2018_la APF July 9, 2008 Its authors said that, regardless of the start date, it would take five years for the precious 500-gramme (1.1-pound) sample to be brought back to Earth and space powers had to pool resources to achieve the extraordinary goal. The document says the cost would roughly range from 4.5 to eight billion dollars (three to 5.3 billion euros), "depending on the final requirements and international cooperative structure." **************Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com! (http://www.tourtracker.com?NCID=aolmus00050000000112) From edeckert at triad.rr.com Thu Jul 10 21:55:03 2008 From: edeckert at triad.rr.com (Ed Deckert) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 21:55:03 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Sighting in Israel References: <17155-4876AA1A-703@storefull-3313.bay.webtv.net> <33C7F07F-E3AA-4990-A8EC-3E1F7B43E85C@montrose.net> Message-ID: <00da01c8e2f9$231b39a0$6401a8c0@EdDeckertMain> "and bafflement among astronomers who failed to predict it" > > Huh? Do they do that routinely or something? > Mike in CO Mike, Yes, they do. I am told that their astronomers have ties to the Psychic Friends Network. They should have caught that one days, or perhaps even weeks ago! Ed ;-) From MeteorHntr at aol.com Thu Jul 10 22:04:42 2008 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 22:04:42 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Mission to Bring Back Soil Samples from Mars Gets 2018 L... Message-ID: OK, I know I am responding to my own post, but... $9,000,000 a gram is about 10,000 times MORE expensive than the $1,000 a gram range that most SNC sell for now. 10,000 times more expensive! Meteorites are SOOOO under-priced. Steve #1 In a message dated 7/10/2008 8:52:40 P.M. Central Daylight Time, MeteorHntr at aol.com writes: Wow, Only $4.5 Billion (up to $8B) to return a single 500 gram SNC specimen! That would be $9 Million to $16 Million per gram. How many DIFFERENT SNC specimens could be found on planet Earth if $8,000,000,000 would be spent on hunting for them over the same period of time this project would take? Maybe a new, un-terrestrialized SNC would offer some new information that a Martian meteorite wouldn't, but $8 Billion dollars worth? Call me a bit skeptical, but I kind of doubt that any information would be worth that much. Especially if we are going to put humans on the surface of Mars a couple of years later. 1% of $8 Billion would only be $80,000,000. I bet we meteorite hunters collectively could find 50 new different Martian meteorites for $80,000,000 if someone would put up the reward money. And science would learn MORE from those 50 than they would from one single one. Where do I apply to compete for some of this crazy grant money? Somebody help me get some! Steve Arnold #1 Only In a message dated 7/10/2008 8:30:10 P.M. Central Daylight Time, baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov writes: http://www.marsdaily.com/reports/Mission_to_bring_back_soil_samples_from_Mars_ gets_2018_la APF July 9, 2008 Its authors said that, regardless of the start date, it would take five years for the precious 500-gramme (1.1-pound) sample to be brought back to Earth and space powers had to pool resources to achieve the extraordinary goal. The document says the cost would roughly range from 4.5 to eight billion dollars (three to 5.3 billion euros), "depending on the final requirements and international cooperative structure." **************Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com! (http://www.tourtracker.com?NCID=aolmus00050000000112) ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list **************Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com! (http://www.tourtracker.com?NCID=aolmus00050000000112) From dave at fallingrocks.com Thu Jul 10 22:58:08 2008 From: dave at fallingrocks.com (Dave Gheesling) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 22:58:08 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Digitized Carancas and another new Armstrong original now posted... Message-ID: <71CFBBA5C2A6471C8DA86346D573B4F9@meteorroom> http://www.fallingrocks.com/paintings.htm Dave Gheesling IMCA #5967 www.fallingrocks.com From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Fri Jul 11 06:20:09 2008 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 12:20:09 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Mission to Bring Back Soil Samples from MarsGets 2018 L... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <009001c8e33f$b36b2f10$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> But Steve, you saw that they calculated an financial extra-scope for that mission of $3,500,000,000. So if freehanded calculated that there even would be 20kg of the 100kgs of Martian meteorites still available, we can be sure, that they are that intelligent enough to take that half of a percent of that additional leeway, to acquire all still existing Martian meteorites completely. I mean it's NASA and ESA, where the most brilliant minds want to gather as much information about Martian rocks as possible. Can't we? Martin -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von MeteorHntr at aol.com Gesendet: Freitag, 11. Juli 2008 04:05 An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Mission to Bring Back Soil Samples from MarsGets 2018 L... OK, I know I am responding to my own post, but... $9,000,000 a gram is about 10,000 times MORE expensive than the $1,000 a gram range that most SNC sell for now. 10,000 times more expensive! Meteorites are SOOOO under-priced. Steve #1 In a message dated 7/10/2008 8:52:40 P.M. Central Daylight Time, MeteorHntr at aol.com writes: Wow, Only $4.5 Billion (up to $8B) to return a single 500 gram SNC specimen! That would be $9 Million to $16 Million per gram. How many DIFFERENT SNC specimens could be found on planet Earth if $8,000,000,000 would be spent on hunting for them over the same period of time this project would take? Maybe a new, un-terrestrialized SNC would offer some new information that a Martian meteorite wouldn't, but $8 Billion dollars worth? Call me a bit skeptical, but I kind of doubt that any information would be worth that much. Especially if we are going to put humans on the surface of Mars a couple of years later. 1% of $8 Billion would only be $80,000,000. I bet we meteorite hunters collectively could find 50 new different Martian meteorites for $80,000,000 if someone would put up the reward money. And science would learn MORE from those 50 than they would from one single one. Where do I apply to compete for some of this crazy grant money? Somebody help me get some! Steve Arnold #1 Only In a message dated 7/10/2008 8:30:10 P.M. Central Daylight Time, baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov writes: http://www.marsdaily.com/reports/Mission_to_bring_back_soil_samples_from_Mar s_ gets_2018_la APF July 9, 2008 Its authors said that, regardless of the start date, it would take five years for the precious 500-gramme (1.1-pound) sample to be brought back to Earth and space powers had to pool resources to achieve the extraordinary goal. The document says the cost would roughly range from 4.5 to eight billion dollars (three to 5.3 billion euros), "depending on the final requirements and international cooperative structure." **************Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com! (http://www.tourtracker.com?NCID=aolmus00050000000112) ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list **************Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com! (http://www.tourtracker.com?NCID=aolmus00050000000112) ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From chinaren76 at yahoo.com Fri Jul 11 07:22:28 2008 From: chinaren76 at yahoo.com (Ma Lan) Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 04:22:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Fwd: How many meteorite dealers are there? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <868397.80020.qm@web52705.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi listees, If the dealer, collector, dealer-collector or collector-dealer are defined as prior discussion, the question left for us is, HOW MANY? Nobody knows a true number of them worldwidely. But i can provide an estimate number of Chinese dealers, collectors, dealer-collectors or whatever. According to my experience and instincts, the number of China men related to deal or collecting of meteorites is 80-100 or so. Most of them do activities within China only. Best to all, Ma Lan Beijing China --- On Fri, 7/11/08, M42protosun at aol.com wrote: > From: M42protosun at aol.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fwd: How many meteorite dealers are there? > To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Friday, July 11, 2008, 5:13 AM > Good evening list, > > In my mind, nobody can give a true number of meteorite > dealers. > > Asume that we are talking only about professionals. Are > they all meteorite > dealers? I think no! You can sell a meteorite only, if you > have the sureness > that the piece is a meteorite. Otherwise you are a mineral > seller (dealer). > > And that is the problem! > > There is no gapless tracking information about the most > (small) items. > > 1. If a piece of rock contains chondrules it must not be a > meteorite > because some complex sediments or some porphyric contain > chondrule-like > pebbels > > 2. igneous rock may have a fusion crust different in color > of its interieur, > > 3. Haematite-Magnetite clusters can show on a polished cut > a hexagonale > texture like Widmanstaetten > > 4. Regmaglypte-like buckles can be on a piece of metal of > a nade from WWII > time > > 5. to be the member of IMCA or other parties gives not the > certitude for the > buyer, that he will buy a meteorite. > > Normally, if the gapless tracking is interrupted, a new > certificate must be > produced to start a new gapless tracking for the item. But > this is not given > in the market. > > So, if you have found a number of meteorite dealers, > devide this by the > number of fingers you have. The result may be an estimated > value with a certain > trueth. > > After beginning collecting meteorites, I bought a lot of > rebbish stuff for > expensive money. Now I have my own small LAB for physical, > chemical and > petrological researches. This gives me some sureness that > the seller from whom I > buy might be a true METEORITE DEALER. > > > Uwe > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From axelsson at acc.umu.se Fri Jul 11 15:25:49 2008 From: axelsson at acc.umu.se (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=F6ran_Axelsson?=) Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 21:25:49 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] meteorite hunting in Western Australia In-Reply-To: <4876A325.6050608@optushome.com.au> References: <48760B52.60501@acc.umu.se> <4876A325.6050608@optushome.com.au> Message-ID: <4877B3BD.5020507@acc.umu.se> Hi and thanks for the answer! I was aware of the export laws and had no intention of bringing any meteorite back home without permit. But that it belongs to the government in WA was a surprise. How could there be so many Millbillillies around with that law? Is it a new interpretation or a new law? If (big if) I would find a meteorite where should I leave it? I just want to test my luck and finally find a meteorite myself, if it ends up in a museum that is fine with me. I still have a few days before I go out in the wild... well, I decided to not stray too far out from the main roads, it should be enough round to cover for this vacation anyhow. /Goran Norbert & Heike Kammel wrote: > Hi Goeran/List, > > just a quick note to remind you that Federal laws protect meteorites > found in Australia and it is an offence to export one without a > permit. *In Western Australia and South Australia legislation means > that meteorites are the property of the Government and must be lodged > with an appropriate Museum.* In other States, the finder is able to > keep a meteorite. > Also please keep in mind that the areas are VERY remote and not so > easy accessable. > It is advisable to travel at least with two relyable 4WD's, one driver > experienced in Outback travelling. > Even though it is now winter time and often rainy carry enough water > and food in case you get bogged. Also a SatPhone or HF Radio would be > adviseable to carry. > The better fields are more east from Kalgoolie, like the Camel Donga > strewnfield, in the Nullarbor Plain. > > Anyway, Welcome to Australia, and have a great time. > > Best regards from Down-Under, > > Norbert Kammel > IMCA # 3420 > > G?ran Axelsson wrote: >> Hi list! >> >> I'm currently sitting 50 meters from the Indian Ocean and planning my >> vacation in Australia. In about a week I will have a lot of free time >> and I wanted to spend one week hunting for meteorites here in western >> Australia. >> I know that I probably can't bring any stones back home but I still >> want to hunt. >> >> Is there any good places to hunt between Perth and Kalgoorlie or in >> that area? >> Any other places in Western Australia that I should visit? >> >> Is there any description of the meteorite field in Camel Donga? That >> is an area I would like to spend a couple of days in. >> >> Any other tips for me? >> >> Apart from meteorite hunting, I'm invited to a wedding and I'm going >> to hunt for gold so I have my metal detector with me. >> >> /G?ran >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> > From MeteorHntr at aol.com Fri Jul 11 17:14:47 2008 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 17:14:47 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Another Meteorite Movie Meet Dave Message-ID: Hey All, Here is another movie with the topic of a meteorite in it, out yesterday: http://guides.news.com.au/movies/movie/?title_id=35204 Steve #1 **************Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com! (http://www.tourtracker.com?NCID=aolmus00050000000112) From gredfern at earthlink.net Tue Jul 1 00:04:06 2008 From: gredfern at earthlink.net (Greg Redfern) Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 00:04:06 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Astrocast.tv Episode 4 Message-ID: <005101c8db2f$892a8470$6600a8c0@gregufeopu010a> Hi Everyone, I hope you enjoy this episode of Astrocast.tv. All the best, Greg Greg Redfern NASA JPL Solar System Ambassador http://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/ambassador/index.html WHAT'S UP?: THE SPACE PLACE http://www.wtopnews.com/?sid=600113&nid=421 ASTROCAST http://astrocast.tv/ From meteorites at optushome.com.au Fri Jul 11 20:31:00 2008 From: meteorites at optushome.com.au (Norbert & Heike Kammel) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 10:31:00 +1000 Subject: [meteorite-list] meteorite hunting in Western Australia In-Reply-To: <4877B3BD.5020507@acc.umu.se> References: <48760B52.60501@acc.umu.se> <4876A325.6050608@optushome.com.au> <4877B3BD.5020507@acc.umu.se> Message-ID: <4877FB44.9040906@optushome.com.au> Hi Goeran, unfortunately the laws governing the ownership of meteorites in Australia are quite different in each of our States and Territories. In Western Australia when you find a _meteorite_ it belongs to the State and you should hand it in at the Perth museum, but I assume that quite a few people have found interesting looking _rocks_ (perhaps looking and feeling quite what others consider being meteorites), but as not being an expert, these people just pic it up as interesting rocks and keep them, what is quite legal. However, it would be an offense if they later sell these _rocks_ as Australian _meteorites_. You know what I mean? I guess that's where most of the Millbillillie's come from. However, for a lot of Australian meteorites which are adequately represented in Australian institutions you will get a letter of clearance from the museum. These blokes are not too bad at all, but they also have to abide to the rules and police the law. So, Mate, I assume you will _not go meteorite hunting_ but _go out fossicking for unusual rocks_. And I hope you'll find some really nice one's. And if you find on this trip some new and really interesting meteorites, even martian or some from Venus etc. please leave them where you saw them so that others will have the same pleasure as you. Or not. :-\ All the very best Goeran, hope you have a great time. And take care out there. Best regards from Down-Under, Norbert Kammel IMCA # 3420 G?ran Axelsson wrote: > Hi and thanks for the answer! > > I was aware of the export laws and had no intention of bringing any > meteorite back home without permit. But that it belongs to the > government in WA was a surprise. > How could there be so many Millbillillies around with that law? Is it > a new interpretation or a new law? > > If (big if) I would find a meteorite where should I leave it? > > I just want to test my luck and finally find a meteorite myself, if it > ends up in a museum that is fine with me. > > I still have a few days before I go out in the wild... well, I decided > to not stray too far out from the main roads, it should be enough > round to cover for this vacation anyhow. > > /Goran > > Norbert & Heike Kammel wrote: >> Hi Goeran/List, >> >> just a quick note to remind you that Federal laws protect meteorites >> found in Australia and it is an offence to export one without a >> permit. *In Western Australia and South Australia legislation means >> that meteorites are the property of the Government and must be lodged >> with an appropriate Museum.* In other States, the finder is able to >> keep a meteorite. >> Also please keep in mind that the areas are VERY remote and not so >> easy accessable. >> It is advisable to travel at least with two relyable 4WD's, one >> driver experienced in Outback travelling. >> Even though it is now winter time and often rainy carry enough water >> and food in case you get bogged. Also a SatPhone or HF Radio would be >> adviseable to carry. >> The better fields are more east from Kalgoolie, like the Camel Donga >> strewnfield, in the Nullarbor Plain. >> >> Anyway, Welcome to Australia, and have a great time. >> >> Best regards from Down-Under, >> >> Norbert Kammel >> IMCA # 3420 >> >> G?ran Axelsson wrote: >>> Hi list! >>> >>> I'm currently sitting 50 meters from the Indian Ocean and planning >>> my vacation in Australia. In about a week I will have a lot of free >>> time and I wanted to spend one week hunting for meteorites here in >>> western Australia. >>> I know that I probably can't bring any stones back home but I still >>> want to hunt. >>> >>> Is there any good places to hunt between Perth and Kalgoorlie or in >>> that area? >>> Any other places in Western Australia that I should visit? >>> >>> Is there any description of the meteorite field in Camel Donga? That >>> is an area I would like to spend a couple of days in. >>> >>> Any other tips for me? >>> >>> Apart from meteorite hunting, I'm invited to a wedding and I'm going >>> to hunt for gold so I have my metal detector with me. >>> >>> /G?ran >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> >>> >> > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From mmurray at montrose.net Fri Jul 11 20:36:54 2008 From: mmurray at montrose.net (Michael Murray) Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 18:36:54 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] meteorite hunting in Western Australia In-Reply-To: <4877B3BD.5020507@acc.umu.se> References: <48760B52.60501@acc.umu.se> <4876A325.6050608@optushome.com.au> <4877B3BD.5020507@acc.umu.se> Message-ID: Mr. Axelsson wrote: "I just want to test my luck and finally find a meteorite myself" Thinking about the moment when you have to hand over your first find, I can't help but suggest going someplace else where what you find can be yours to keep. Meteorites are all over the globe. Find a piece of private land in a country where the owner will come to terms with you keeping the stone once found. BTW, not grumbling about AU's laws here. Just thinking that you deserve to keep your first find. I know I would not want to give up such a find. The story comes to mind about the two guys finding the "Old Woman" meteorite. You know about that one, right? Mike in CO On Jul 11, 2008, at 1:25 PM, G?ran Axelsson wrote: > Hi and thanks for the answer! > > I was aware of the export laws and had no intention of bringing any > meteorite back home without permit. But that it belongs to the > government in WA was a surprise. > How could there be so many Millbillillies around with that law? Is > it a new interpretation or a new law? > > If (big if) I would find a meteorite where should I leave it? > > I just want to test my luck and finally find a meteorite myself, if > it ends up in a museum that is fine with me. > > I still have a few days before I go out in the wild... well, I > decided to not stray too far out from the main roads, it should be > enough round to cover for this vacation anyhow. > > /Goran > > Norbert & Heike Kammel wrote: >> Hi Goeran/List, >> >> just a quick note to remind you that Federal laws protect >> meteorites found in Australia and it is an offence to export one >> without a permit. *In Western Australia and South Australia >> legislation means that meteorites are the property of the >> Government and must be lodged with an appropriate Museum.* In >> other States, the finder is able to keep a meteorite. >> Also please keep in mind that the areas are VERY remote and not so >> easy accessable. >> It is advisable to travel at least with two relyable 4WD's, one >> driver experienced in Outback travelling. >> Even though it is now winter time and often rainy carry enough >> water and food in case you get bogged. Also a SatPhone or HF Radio >> would be adviseable to carry. >> The better fields are more east from Kalgoolie, like the Camel >> Donga strewnfield, in the Nullarbor Plain. >> >> Anyway, Welcome to Australia, and have a great time. >> >> Best regards from Down-Under, >> >> Norbert Kammel >> IMCA # 3420 >> >> G?ran Axelsson wrote: >>> Hi list! >>> >>> I'm currently sitting 50 meters from the Indian Ocean and >>> planning my vacation in Australia. In about a week I will have a >>> lot of free time and I wanted to spend one week hunting for >>> meteorites here in western Australia. >>> I know that I probably can't bring any stones back home but I >>> still want to hunt. >>> >>> Is there any good places to hunt between Perth and Kalgoorlie or >>> in that area? >>> Any other places in Western Australia that I should visit? >>> >>> Is there any description of the meteorite field in Camel Donga? >>> That is an area I would like to spend a couple of days in. >>> >>> Any other tips for me? >>> >>> Apart from meteorite hunting, I'm invited to a wedding and I'm >>> going to hunt for gold so I have my metal detector with me. >>> >>> /G?ran >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> >>> >> > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Fri Jul 11 21:20:29 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 18:20:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars Exploration Rovers Update: June 27 - July 4, 2008 Message-ID: <200807120120.SAA24948@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/mission/status.html SPIRIT UPDATE: Biding Time - sol 1594-1600, June 27-July 03, 2008: Spirit continues to ride out the Martian winter by doing minimal activities to conserve power. The rover conducts very light science activities every three to four Martian days, or sols, and relays data to NASA's Odyssey orbiter for transmission to Earth every 4 sols. The rest of the time, Spirit mostly sleeps. As it has been some time since Spirit's operators were able to synchronize the spacecraft clock to Earth time, they wished to determine how far the spacecraft clock had drifted (how much it had changed over time). Synchronization of the clock is a process that requires a power-intensive, two-way, X-band communications link. When the power situation allowed it, they decided to perform an X-band "beep" (a five-minute, low-gain communication session) to estimate the amount of drift. The transmission of plans to do so on sol 1594 (June 27, 2008) were not detected by the ground station. Engineers hoped to make another attempt on sol 1604 (July 7, 2008). Spirit is healthy and all subsystems were performing as expected as of the Odyssey downlink on sol 1598 (July 1, 2008). Solar-array energy has been steady within the range of 225 watt-hours to 230 watt-hours (100 watt-hours is the amount of energy needed to light a 100-watt bulb for one hour). Sol-by-sol summary During the past week, Spirit completed the following activities: Sol 1594 (June 27, 2008): Plans called for Spirit to perform a five-minute "beep" at X-band frequencies after relaying data to Earth via the Odyssey orbiter. Sol 1595: Spirit recharged the battery and measured atmospheric dust opacity, known as Tau, using the panoramic camera. Sol 1596: Spirit recharged the battery and measured atmospheric dust opacity with the panoramic camera. Sol 1597: Spirit recharged the battery and measured atmospheric dust opacity with the panoramic camera. Sol 1598: Spirit received new instructions from Earth via the rover's high-gain, X-band antenna and relayed data to Odyssey at UHF frequencies for transmission of the latest Martian data to Earth. The rover measured atmospheric darkness caused by suspended dust particles with the panoramic camera. Sol 1599: Spirit conducted light remote sensing. Sol 1600 (July 3, 2008): Spirit recharged the battery and again measured atmospheric dust with the panoramic camera. Odometry: As of sol 1598 (July 1, 2008), Spirit's total odometry remained at 7,528.0 meters (4.7 miles). ------------------------------------------------------------------------ OPPORTUNITY UPDATE: Rover Takes Photos of Scenic View - sol 1574-1580, June 28-July 04, 2008: Opportunity has completed work on the stand-off portion of the full-color panorama of the layered cliff known as "Cape Verde." It may take a couple of weeks for the entire panorama to arrive on Earth, depending on the volume of data the rover is able to transmit during communications links. Next, Opportunity will move closer to Cape Verde to take a high-resolution image of a smaller area in front of the rover. During the past week, engineers characterized the performance of the rover's rock abrasion tool along the z-axis by comparing voltage and the speed of the actuator at different temperatures. In the event that the z-axis encoder lines break, as have the encoder lines for the rotate and revolve axes, this characterization will be essential in developing a functional strategy for operating the rock abrasion tool with full, open-loop control. The z-axis encoder is responsible for moving the cutting head outward into the rock. Next week's plans call for Opportunity to bump forward to a point only a few meters away from the cliff face to take high-resolution images. If possible, Opportunity will also conduct scientific studies of an outcrop target called "Nevada" (so named because of a rock next to it which has a shape reminiscent of the outline of the state of Nevada) using instruments on the robotic arm. Opportunity is healthy and all subsystems are performing as expected. Energy is around 376 watt-hours (100 watt-hours is the amount of energy required to light a 100-watt bulb for one hour). As of Sol 1578 (July 2, 2008), Tau (a measure of darkness due to atmospheric dust) was at 0.413 and the dust factor (a measure of the proportion of sunlight penetrating dust on the solar arrays) was at 0.771. Sol-by-sol summary: In addition to receiving morning, direct-from-Earth instructions via the rover's high-gain antenna, sending evening UHF data to NASA's Odyssey orbiter for transmission to Earth, measuring atmospheric dust with the panoramic camera, surveying the sky for clouds with the navigation camera, and monitoring dust accumulation on the rover mast, Opportunity completed the following activities: Sol 1574 (June 28, 2008): Opportunity began acquiring "dusty," super-resolution images of targeted portions of the outcrops exposed in the Cape Verde cliff dubbed "Alpha," "Bravo," "Charlie," "Delta," and "Echo." To do this, the rover compensated for dust accumulation on the right side of each lens by taking images using only a subset of available pixels. On this particular sol, Opportunity acquired dusty, super-resolution images of "Alpha" and "Echo." Sol 1575: Opportunity acquired dusty, super-resolution images of Bravo, Charlie, Delta, and Echo using the panoramic camera. The rover also acquired six, time-lapse movie frames in search of clouds using the navigation camera. Sol 1576: Opportunity acquired more dusty, super-resolution images of Echo with the panoramic camera and took images of Cape Verde in shadow at 2:30 p.m. local Mars time and at 3 p.m. local Mars time. Sol 1577: Opportunity acquired dusty, super-resolution images of a target dubbed "Foxtrot" with the panoramic camera and characterized the performance of the rock-abrasion tool along the z-axis at warm temperatures. The rover reacquired five dusty, super-resolution images of Cape Verde and Bravo. Sol 1578: Opportunity characterized the ability of the z-axis encoder to move the cutting head of the rock abrasion tool outward at cold temperatures and reacquired dusty, super-resolution images of Alpha. Sol 1579: In the morning, Opportunity surveyed the horizon with the panoramic camera. The rover measured argon gas in the Martian atmosphere using the alpha-particle X-ray spectrometer. Opportunity also acquired a 27-by-1 panel of images of Cape Verde at dusk with the left-hand lens of the panoramic camera. Sol 1580 (July 4, 2008): Opportunity acquired a 27-by-1 panel of images of Cape Verde at dusk with the right-hand lens of the panoramic camera. Odometry: As of sol 1580 (July 4, 2008), Opportunity's total odometry was 11,723.94 meters (7.28 miles). From daistiho at hotmail.com Sat Jul 12 02:50:22 2008 From: daistiho at hotmail.com (tracy latimer) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 06:50:22 +0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] OT: really cool meteorite shirt; warning, SCIENCE! Message-ID: My Alert Internet Surfer hubby spotted this and promptly got me one: http://store.uhaul.com/master_product_detail.aspx?id=4 I thought it was nifty, since my old Meteor Crater shirt is showing signs of wear and I won't be back that way again anytime soon, what with gas prices, etc. How cool is artwork like that to show up on the side of a U-Haul?!? Best! Tracy Latimer _________________________________________________________________ The i?m Talkaton. Can 30-days of conversation change the world? http://www.imtalkathon.com/?source=EML_WLH_Talkathon_ChangeWorld From mikewren at gilanet.com Sat Jul 12 10:56:04 2008 From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 08:56:04 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Auctions and a Sale This Week! Message-ID: <200807120858339.SM01480@yourfsyly0jtwn> Hello, Check out my Auctions running this week and my sale in my store! Go to: http://stores.ebay.com/VOYAGE-BOTANICA-NATURAL-HISTORY Thanks and Best Wishes Michael Cottingham From almitt at kconline.com Sat Jul 12 11:15:39 2008 From: almitt at kconline.com (ALMitt) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 11:15:39 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Nininger Moments Message-ID: <4878CA9B.9010407@kconline.com> Greetings to all, With a consorted and dedicated effort on the part of Paul Harris and the Meteorite.com site, we have moved the Nininger Moments which have been absent from the web for a few months to this site for a new location on the web for all to enjoy when they want to. Photos have been added and will be added from time to time. Some modifications to the Nininger Moments, along with a newer look and more pleasing format should make these easy to browse and read. The Nininger Moments are various short stories about Nininger's life, meteorite hunting, and adventures he had along the long way of acquiring one of the most impressive collections in the history of the modern meteorite era. Please check out this site at: http://www.meteorite.com/nininger/ I still need to get back to some people on some items I wish to use and hope to add to this site. All my best! --AL Mitterling From pshugar at clearwire.net Sat Jul 12 01:16:48 2008 From: pshugar at clearwire.net (Pete Shugar) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 00:16:48 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Re Cu meteorite Message-ID: <000201c8e43f$87321ca0$0201a8c0@portable> Greeting list, I am by no means an expert. From all that I've read from this fine list of experts and scientists, meteorites come in several packages, i.e., irons, stony-irons and stonys. (I'm keeping it simple.) I haven't ever heard mentioned of a meteorite composed of copper. Now, copper I know. This is because I've a degree in electronics. Gold and silver make better conductors than copper, but are too expensive to be used except in very special and limited circumstances. Copper is a very malleable substance which has a melting point of 1984.32 Deg F and a boiling point of 4643 Deg F. Several of the list's scientists and other knowledgeable persons on the list have tossed out figures that are much higher than this as heat levels generated upon entry into our earth's atmosphere. Again, I am no expert when it comes to the mechanics of earth accreting material from the depths of space, but it would seem just near impossible for a meteor composed of mostly copper to survive til it smacked into the ground (which would change the remaining kinetic energy into yet more heat). All this to say that copper is just not likely to be a meteorite. I do suppose that if it started out as a large enough chunk it might be possible to survive til impact. I've read numerous pieces on asteroids and none are mention as being thought to be made out of primarily copper or show the reflected light spectrum of copper. There are many meteorites listed in the Met Bull as having small percentages of copper. None have large to almost exclusive amounts of copper. I have to agree with Sterling and say that it was most likely something (a bushing?) made of copper that fell from an aircraft. In conclusion, if a copper meteorite existed, I would also look for one made of lead, or even gold or silver for that matter but I fear it would share the same fate as the copper meteorite. As a side note, Sterling, maybe there was a gold and a silver meteorite that broke up over the Ohio and Kentucky area and that's where all the precious metals came from. Pete From clp at alumni.caltech.edu Sat Jul 12 13:10:04 2008 From: clp at alumni.caltech.edu (Chris Peterson) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 11:10:04 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Re Cu meteorite References: <000201c8e43f$87321ca0$0201a8c0@portable> Message-ID: <188e01c8e442$289a6280$0a01a8c0@bellatrix> The fact that there are no copper meteorites is most likely because the processes involved in asteroid formation didn't allow metallic copper to accumulate in bulk. But if it did, there's no reason that pure copper meteorites wouldn't survive to the ground. Like any other meteorite, the interior would not heat significantly. As long as the body was large enough to avoid ablating away before slowing down, you could expect a meteorite. It turns out that even a big block of ice can survive passage through the atmosphere. The outside ablates away, the interior never warms up. Chris ***************************************** Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete Shugar" To: Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 11:16 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Re Cu meteorite > Greeting list, > I am by no means an expert. From all that I've read from this fine list of > experts > and scientists, meteorites come in several packages, i.e., irons, > stony-irons and > stonys. (I'm keeping it simple.) > I haven't ever heard mentioned of a meteorite composed of copper. > Now, copper I know. This is because I've a degree in electronics. > Gold and silver make better conductors than copper, but are too expensive > to be used except in very special and limited circumstances. > Copper is a very malleable substance which has a melting point of 1984.32 > Deg F > and a boiling point of 4643 Deg F. > Several of the list's scientists and other knowledgeable persons on the > list > have tossed out > figures that are much higher than this as heat levels generated upon entry > into our earth's > atmosphere. > Again, I am no expert when it comes to the mechanics of earth accreting > material from > the depths of space, but it would seem just near impossible for a meteor > composed of > mostly copper to survive til it smacked into the ground (which would > change > the remaining > kinetic energy into yet more heat). > All this to say that copper is just not likely to be a meteorite. I do > suppose that if it started > out as a large enough chunk it might be possible to survive til impact. > I've read numerous pieces on asteroids and none are mention as being > thought > to be made out of > primarily copper or show the reflected light spectrum of copper. > There are many meteorites listed in the Met Bull as having small > percentages > of copper. > None have large to almost exclusive amounts of copper. > I have to agree with Sterling and say that it was most likely something (a > bushing?) > made of copper that fell from an aircraft. > In conclusion, if a copper meteorite existed, I would also look for one > made > of lead, or even gold or silver > for that matter but I fear it would share the same fate as the copper > meteorite. > As a side note, Sterling, maybe there was a gold and a silver meteorite > that > broke up over > the Ohio and Kentucky area and that's where all the precious metals came > from. > > Pete From cynapse at charter.net Sat Jul 12 13:58:44 2008 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 13:58:44 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Re Cu meteorite In-Reply-To: <188e01c8e442$289a6280$0a01a8c0@bellatrix> References: <000201c8e43f$87321ca0$0201a8c0@portable> <188e01c8e442$289a6280$0a01a8c0@bellatrix> Message-ID: On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 11:10:04 -0600, you wrote: >It turns out that even a big block of ice can survive passage through the >atmosphere. The outside ablates away, the interior never warms up. Any numbers on how big the block would have to be? How small the surviving piece could be? I'm thinking of some of those chunks of ice that fall from the sky some times. Most come from planes. Could some be cometary? From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Sat Jul 12 14:19:43 2008 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 12 Jul 2008 18:19:43 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] Chunks of Ice ... Cometary? Message-ID: Darren wrote: "Any numbers on how big the block would have to be? How small the surviving piece could be? I'm thinking of some of those chunks of ice that fall from the sky some times. Most come from planes. Could some be cometary?" Campins H. and Swindle T. (1998) Expected characteristics of cometary meteorites (MAPS 33, 1998, pp. 1201-1211): "The possibility of ice meteorites from comets has been discussed by Berczi and Luk?cs (1997). They argue in favor of the survivability of ice meteoroids through Earth's atmosphere and conclude that some make it to the ground. However, no ice meteorite has ever been recovered. Although a cometary origin should be considered when and if any falling ice of extraterrestrial origin is discovered, we will concentrate on the dusty or rocky portion of comets." Best regards, Bernd From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Sat Jul 12 14:36:17 2008 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 13:36:17 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Re Cu meteorite References: <000201c8e43f$87321ca0$0201a8c0@portable><188e01c8e442$289a6280$0a01a8c0@bellatrix> Message-ID: <01a801c8e44e$2c838d20$db5de146@ATARIENGINE> Hi, Darren, List, Good for you; you've landed on a controversy! The existence (or non-existence) of cryometeors and megacryometeors. The principal researcher of this topic is Jes?s Mart?nez-Fr?as, author of: http://tierra.rediris.es/publipapers/megacryometeors_ambio.pdf The record hailstone for the US is less than 8 inches in diameter but in 1995 in Zhejiang, China, a block of ice roughly a meter on a side and weghing about a ton was witnessed to fall. Cratering events are recorded. Are any of them from "outer space"? Every cryometeor tested has had the isotopic signature (deuterium) of plain ol' earthly water... The question is: how the h*** does the atmosphere form and support a one-ton block of ice? No theory of the atmosphere even vauguely suggests any way... Oddly for such a large number of well-attested events, most internet science forums and astronomy sites routinely blow off questions about big chunks of ice falling from the sky as urban myths, more UFO fantasies, whacky ignorance... What? Rocks falling from the sky? Nonsense. Sterling K. Webb ------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darren Garrison" To: Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 12:58 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Re Cu meteorite On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 11:10:04 -0600, you wrote: >It turns out that even a big block of ice can survive passage through the >atmosphere. The outside ablates away, the interior never warms up. Any numbers on how big the block would have to be? How small the surviving piece could be? I'm thinking of some of those chunks of ice that fall from the sky some times. Most come from planes. Could some be cometary? ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From jbrady1 at orange.net Sat Jul 12 14:50:42 2008 From: jbrady1 at orange.net (jim brady) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 18:50:42 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD~~~Ebay auctions ending tomorrow Message-ID: <1466740357.1215888642537.JavaMail.wbs51@mspvp521> Greetings listoids Some may be interested in a few auctions ending tomorrow.Some nice unclassified fully crusted beauties with no bids yet and 99p start with no reserve a nice 3.5 kilo Gibeon starting at 50 cents a gram.Not too many of these about http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=320270951448 beautiful 6.6 gram partslice of NWA801 CR2 starting at $20 a gram.A search of the top dealers shows prices ranging from $35-$75 a gram ----grab a bargain http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=320271301741 make me an offer on this spiky spear moldavite that's 55mm long http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=320263805038 all items can be seen here http://shop.ebay.co.uk/merchant/emeraldisleminerals thanks for looking and good luck if you're bidding Very best wishes to Gary Foote.Step up to the plate if you can for one of our fellow members during this very difficult time for him and his family.I'm sure they would greatly appreciate any donation Jim Brady From rsvp321 at hotmail.com Sat Jul 12 14:55:25 2008 From: rsvp321 at hotmail.com (Pete Pete) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 14:55:25 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Nininger Moments In-Reply-To: <4878CA9B.9010407@kconline.com> References: <4878CA9B.9010407@kconline.com> Message-ID: Hi, all, Absolutely brilliant, Al! I never tire of Harvey's story. I don't remember how the old format compares to this, but the current appears to be flawless. Please post when you get the outstanding permissions, so I will know when to re-visit. Cheers, Pete > Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 11:15:39 -0400 > From: almitt at kconline.com > To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: [meteorite-list] Nininger Moments > > Greetings to all, > > With a consorted and dedicated effort on the part of Paul Harris and the > Meteorite.com site, we have moved the Nininger Moments which have been > absent from the web for a few months to this site for a new location on > the web for all to enjoy when they want to. > > Photos have been added and will be added from time to time. Some > modifications to the Nininger Moments, along with a newer look and more > pleasing format should make these easy to browse and read. > > The Nininger Moments are various short stories about Nininger's life, > meteorite hunting, and adventures he had along the long way of acquiring > one of the most impressive collections in the history of the modern > meteorite era. > > Please check out this site at: http://www.meteorite.com/nininger/ > > I still need to get back to some people on some items I wish to use and > hope to add to this site. > > All my best! > > --AL Mitterling > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _________________________________________________________________ From clp at alumni.caltech.edu Sat Jul 12 15:13:46 2008 From: clp at alumni.caltech.edu (Chris Peterson) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 13:13:46 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Re Cu meteorite References: <000201c8e43f$87321ca0$0201a8c0@portable><188e01c8e442$289a6280$0a01a8c0@bellatrix> Message-ID: <004301c8e453$71244500$0a01a8c0@bellatrix> I did the math once for a 1 meter sphere of ice, entering at a fairly shallow angle and at the lower end of the possible speeds. Assuming it could hold itself together structurally (which is a big if), you should have something like a 20cm sphere still frozen at the end of ablation. Chris ***************************************** Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darren Garrison" To: Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 11:58 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Re Cu meteorite > On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 11:10:04 -0600, you wrote: > >>It turns out that even a big block of ice can survive passage through the >>atmosphere. The outside ablates away, the interior never warms up. > > Any numbers on how big the block would have to be? How small the > surviving > piece could be? I'm thinking of some of those chunks of ice that fall > from the > sky some times. Most come from planes. Could some be cometary? From lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu Sat Jul 12 16:08:45 2008 From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu (lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 13:08:45 -0700 (MST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Chunks of Ice ... Cometary? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <56157.71.226.60.25.1215893325.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> Hello Bernd and Darren: Swindle and Campins also wrote an article on cometary meteorites in the May, 2006 issue of Meteorite magazine. Larry On Sat, July 12, 2008 11:19 am, bernd.pauli at paulinet.de wrote: > Darren wrote: > > > "Any numbers on how big the block would have to be? How small the > surviving piece could be? I'm thinking of some of those chunks of ice that > fall from the sky some times. Most come from planes. Could some be > cometary?" > > > Campins H. and Swindle T. (1998) Expected characteristics > of cometary meteorites (MAPS 33, 1998, pp. 1201-1211): > > "The possibility of ice meteorites from comets has been discussed by > Berczi and > Luk?cs (1997). They argue in favor of the survivability of ice meteoroids > through Earth's atmosphere and conclude that some make it to the ground. > However, no ice > meteorite has ever been recovered. Although a cometary origin should be > considered when and if any falling ice of extraterrestrial origin is > discovered, we will concentrate on the dusty or rocky portion of comets." > > > Best regards, > > > Bernd > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu Sat Jul 12 16:16:50 2008 From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu (lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 13:16:50 -0700 (MST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Re Cu meteorite In-Reply-To: <01a801c8e44e$2c838d20$db5de146@ATARIENGINE> References: <000201c8e43f$87321ca0$0201a8c0@portable><188e01c8e442$289a6280$0a01a8c0@bellatrix> <01a801c8e44e$2c838d20$db5de146@ATARIENGINE> Message-ID: <56167.71.226.60.25.1215893810.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> Hi again: I forgot the other article in the May, 2006 issue of Meteorite: Ice Meteorites by John Saul which lists 200 years of ice falling from the sky. I am assuming that the most of the early ones do not come from the leaking toilets of planes. My mind remains open on this. Larry On Sat, July 12, 2008 11:36 am, Sterling K. Webb wrote: > Hi, Darren, List, > > > Good for you; you've landed on a controversy! > The existence (or non-existence) of cryometeors > and megacryometeors. The principal researcher of this topic is Jes?s > Mart?nez-Fr?as, author of: > http://tierra.rediris.es/publipapers/megacryometeors_ambio.pdf > > > The record hailstone for the US is less than 8 > inches in diameter but in 1995 in Zhejiang, China, a block of ice roughly a > meter on a side and weghing about a ton was witnessed to fall. > > Cratering events are recorded. Are any of them > from "outer space"? Every cryometeor tested has had the isotopic signature > (deuterium) of plain ol' > earthly water... > > The question is: how the h*** does the atmosphere > form and support a one-ton block of ice? No theory of the atmosphere even > vauguely suggests any way... > > Oddly for such a large number of well-attested > events, most internet science forums and astronomy sites routinely blow off > questions about big chunks of ice falling from the sky as urban myths, > more UFO fantasies, whacky ignorance... > > What? Rocks falling from the sky? Nonsense. > > > > Sterling K. Webb > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Darren Garrison" > To: > Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 12:58 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Re Cu meteorite > > > > On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 11:10:04 -0600, you wrote: > > >> It turns out that even a big block of ice can survive passage through >> the atmosphere. The outside ablates away, the interior never warms up. > > Any numbers on how big the block would have to be? How small the > surviving piece could be? I'm thinking of some of those chunks of ice > that fall from the sky some times. Most come from planes. Could some be > cometary? ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Sat Jul 12 16:26:24 2008 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 13:26:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] New Article: Heating, Cooling, and Cratering: H-Parent's Complicated Story Message-ID: <240668.12883.qm@web55202.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Announcement from Planetary Science Research Discoveries [PSRD] New Article: Heating, Cooling, and Cratering: One Asteroid's Complicated Story --Cooling rate data indicate that the H-chondrite parent asteroid was deeply cratered as it cooled slowly. --------- We invite you to: READ: First summary paragraph for a quick overview PRINT: pdf version VIEW: short slide summary --------- FULL ARTICLE at: http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu/July08/H-chondrite-parent.html --------- PSRD is an educational web site supported by NASA's SMD Cosmochemistry Program and the Hawaii Space Grant Consortium to share the latest research on meteorites, planets, moons, and other solar system bodies. For more information please see --------- Jeff Taylor and Linda Martel Hawaii Institute of Geophysics and Planetology, University of Hawaii psrd at higp.hawaii.edu voice (808) 956-3899 fax (808) 956-6322 http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu From fuzzfoot at comcast.net Sat Jul 12 18:02:35 2008 From: fuzzfoot at comcast.net (Mike Bandli) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 15:02:35 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Denver Mineral Show Message-ID: <20080712220240.2149E10551@mailwash5.pair.com> I?m curious to know who will be attending the Denver show this September. Can we get a show of hands (both meteorite dealers and attendees)? Thanks, ? Mike Bandli www.Astro-Artifacts.com IMCA #5765 ? From almitt at kconline.com Sat Jul 12 19:46:41 2008 From: almitt at kconline.com (ALMitt) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 19:46:41 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Nininger Moments In-Reply-To: References: <4878CA9B.9010407@kconline.com> Message-ID: <48794261.50106@kconline.com> Hi Pete, Thanks for your comments. I would like to say this would have never happened unless Paul Harris had done all the hard work. I just provided the Nininger Moments that I wrote over the years and some photos. --AL Mitterling Pete Pete wrote: >Hi, all, > >Absolutely brilliant, Al! >I never tire of Harvey's story. > >I don't remember how the old format compares to this, but the current appears to be flawless. >Please post when you get the outstanding permissions, so I will know when to re-visit. > >Cheers, >Pete > > > From joelgrant at yahoo.com Sat Jul 12 20:10:21 2008 From: joelgrant at yahoo.com (Joel Grant) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 17:10:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] (no subject) Message-ID: <44680.21149.qm@web50901.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Thank you for the emails in the past but please remove me at this time. Thanks From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Sat Jul 12 21:56:31 2008 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 20:56:31 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Re Cu meteorite References: <000201c8e43f$87321ca0$0201a8c0@portable><188e01c8e442$289a6280$0a01a8c0@bellatrix> <01a801c8e44e$2c838d20$db5de146@ATARIENGINE> <56167.71.226.60.25.1215893810.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> Message-ID: <01d101c8e48b$acae4bb0$db5de146@ATARIENGINE> Hi, Larry, List, No one interested in things that fall from the sky should omit reading the four books of Charles Fort. Fort was a reporter-turned-researcher around 1900. He wrote in the 1920's. He collected "impossible" facts soberly reported in everything from major newspapers to scholarly journals. They are a gold mine of data. Fort was a skeptic (of everything including science) and only satiric in suggesting explanations. He's very readable. Apparently, everything you can think of (and a few things you never thought of) have fallen from the sky. Freeman Dyson, who suggested the fish from Europa arriving freeze-dried on Earth, got the idea after reading Fort. And Fort always finds delightfully embarassing scientific opinions, like this one: "As late as November, 1902, in _Nature Notes_, 13-231, a member of the Selborne Society still argued that meteorites do not fall from the sky; that they are masses of iron upon the ground "in the first place," that attract lightning; that the lightning is seen, and is mistaken for a falling, luminous object..." There are lists of events described at the time as "earthquakes" where ground shocks are accompanied by high winds, bright lights in the sky or "meteors," dark clouds, explosions, black rains, none of which have any connection whatsoever with earthquakes but which sound a great deal like airbursts to me. Sterling K. Webb ----------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Sterling K. Webb" Cc: ; Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 3:16 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Re Cu meteorite Hi again: I forgot the other article in the May, 2006 issue of Meteorite: Ice Meteorites by John Saul which lists 200 years of ice falling from the sky. I am assuming that the most of the early ones do not come from the leaking toilets of planes. My mind remains open on this. Larry On Sat, July 12, 2008 11:36 am, Sterling K. Webb wrote: > Hi, Darren, List, > > > Good for you; you've landed on a controversy! > The existence (or non-existence) of cryometeors > and megacryometeors. The principal researcher of this topic is Jes?s > Mart?nez-Fr?as, author of: > http://tierra.rediris.es/publipapers/megacryometeors_ambio.pdf > > > The record hailstone for the US is less than 8 > inches in diameter but in 1995 in Zhejiang, China, a block of ice roughly > a > meter on a side and weghing about a ton was witnessed to fall. > > Cratering events are recorded. Are any of them > from "outer space"? Every cryometeor tested has had the isotopic signature > (deuterium) of plain ol' > earthly water... > > The question is: how the h*** does the atmosphere > form and support a one-ton block of ice? No theory of the atmosphere even > vauguely suggests any way... > > Oddly for such a large number of well-attested > events, most internet science forums and astronomy sites routinely blow > off > questions about big chunks of ice falling from the sky as urban myths, > more UFO fantasies, whacky ignorance... > > What? Rocks falling from the sky? Nonsense. > > > > Sterling K. Webb > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Darren Garrison" > To: > Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 12:58 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Re Cu meteorite > > > > On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 11:10:04 -0600, you wrote: > > >> It turns out that even a big block of ice can survive passage through >> the atmosphere. The outside ablates away, the interior never warms up. > > Any numbers on how big the block would have to be? How small the > surviving piece could be? I'm thinking of some of those chunks of ice > that fall from the sky some times. Most come from planes. Could some be > cometary? ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From minador at yahoo.com Sun Jul 13 02:09:41 2008 From: minador at yahoo.com (Mark Bowling) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 23:09:41 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Re Cu meteorite In-Reply-To: <000201c8e43f$87321ca0$0201a8c0@portable> References: <000201c8e43f$87321ca0$0201a8c0@portable> Message-ID: <0f3701c8e4af$0abce360$2036aa20$@com> I've seen a few green fireballs/bolides over the years. The flame test of copper is green so I've always wondered about this subject myself. Geologic processes have produced relatively huge masses of copper in the earth, and I don't see why that cannot occur elsewhere in the solar system. But I'm just a biased copper miner... ;-) Something like that would be quite rare, but possible I think. Clear skies! -- Mark B. Vail, AZ IMCA #6645 o(:-) -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Pete Shugar Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 10:17 PM To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Re Cu meteorite Greeting list, I am by no means an expert. From all that I've read from this fine list of experts and scientists, meteorites come in several packages, i.e., irons, stony-irons and stonys. (I'm keeping it simple.) I haven't ever heard mentioned of a meteorite composed of copper. Now, copper I know. This is because I've a degree in electronics. Gold and silver make better conductors than copper, but are too expensive to be used except in very special and limited circumstances. Copper is a very malleable substance which has a melting point of 1984.32 Deg F and a boiling point of 4643 Deg F. Several of the list's scientists and other knowledgeable persons on the list have tossed out figures that are much higher than this as heat levels generated upon entry into our earth's atmosphere. Again, I am no expert when it comes to the mechanics of earth accreting material from the depths of space, but it would seem just near impossible for a meteor composed of mostly copper to survive til it smacked into the ground (which would change the remaining kinetic energy into yet more heat). All this to say that copper is just not likely to be a meteorite. I do suppose that if it started out as a large enough chunk it might be possible to survive til impact. I've read numerous pieces on asteroids and none are mention as being thought to be made out of primarily copper or show the reflected light spectrum of copper. There are many meteorites listed in the Met Bull as having small percentages of copper. None have large to almost exclusive amounts of copper. I have to agree with Sterling and say that it was most likely something (a bushing?) made of copper that fell from an aircraft. In conclusion, if a copper meteorite existed, I would also look for one made of lead, or even gold or silver for that matter but I fear it would share the same fate as the copper meteorite. As a side note, Sterling, maybe there was a gold and a silver meteorite that broke up over the Ohio and Kentucky area and that's where all the precious metals came from. Pete ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From clp at alumni.caltech.edu Sun Jul 13 02:22:44 2008 From: clp at alumni.caltech.edu (Chris Peterson) Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 00:22:44 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Re Cu meteorite References: <000201c8e43f$87321ca0$0201a8c0@portable> <0f3701c8e4af$0abce360$2036aa20$@com> Message-ID: <002301c8e4b0$e43e14f0$0a01a8c0@bellatrix> Many fireballs, especially slow ones, show strongly green. This has nothing to do with the composition of the body, however (meteor colors in general are not strongly related to composition). The green color is the 558nm forbidden oxygen line. Slower meteors are not as hot, so their intrinsic thermal (blackbody) radiation is less likely to swamp out the atmospheric emission. Chris ***************************************** Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Bowling" To: Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 12:09 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Re Cu meteorite > I've seen a few green fireballs/bolides over the years. The flame test of > copper is green so I've always wondered about this subject myself. > Geologic > processes have produced relatively huge masses of copper in the earth, and > I > don't see why that cannot occur elsewhere in the solar system. But I'm > just > a biased copper miner... ;-) Something like that would be quite rare, but > possible I think. From mexicodoug at aim.com Sun Jul 13 08:58:12 2008 From: mexicodoug at aim.com (mexicodoug at aim.com) Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 08:58:12 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] frightful fireball of July 8 ==> July 10 fireball Message-ID: <8CAB2FF3DE0AABB-4B8-61B2@WEBMAIL-DF10.sysops.aol.com> Hi Rob, Listees, For those who have been following the Israeli pandemonium / Cypriot UFO "meteor" story I first reported here, and Rob Matson quickly suggested it was the decaying orbit 3rd stage rocket booster of the Israeli Shavit, all within 6 hours of the event, - this appears to be a well-embellished but bonafide recovery of a cool piece of the booster rocket which orbit finished decaying at 13:20 UT on July 10, 2008. It lofted a top secret spy satellite launched 13 months ago. And ... it fell in the country that best knows how to tell a newsstory ;-) Rob mentioned the Israeli "Shavit" translates to "comet" - and to think this is probably what caused or related to what caused the July 8 fireball observed between Israel and Cyprus. A fun read !! Great picture !! Cool piece !! Just fell where it was supposed to be - along the orbit past the calculated re-entry point on the Butan/Tibet border and then a little past that point along the orbit (though I haven't looked closely) ... this still needs to be confirmed, but it sure looks right ... in spite of the article's red hot buildings and day to cool off, etc., etc. ... Best wishes Doug Flaming saucer from the sky - Time raises possibility of Israel satellite debris in Kurseong VIVEK SINGH AND G.S. MUDUR The object that fell in Kurseong. Picture by Vivek Singh July 11: Comrade Karat, while you were lost in the nuclear draft last evening, an ?intruder? from America?s bosom buddy Israel ? of all places ? may have infiltrated the communist bastion called Bengal from the sky. Hear it from Hari Bahadur Chettri of Kurseong: ?I was drinking tea when I spotted a glowing red object falling from the sky. It crashed near my cattle shed with a hissing sound. The heat was so much that the tin wall of the cattle shed also turned red.? The celestial object, around two feet wide and 18 inches high, had not been identified till late tonight. But the time of the landing ? 6.30pm ? raises a tantalising possibility. A US agency had forecast that chunks of a stage-3 rocket body of Shavit, an Israeli launch vehicle, would re-enter Earth?s atmosphere around the same time. Shavit?s trajectory would have taken it over India. The Centre for Orbital and Reentry Debris Studies in Los Angeles had predicted the re-entry of parts of the rocket body on July 10 at 13:28 Universal Time (6.28pm in India). The error margin had been kept at 75 minutes. Whether the object is part of that debris or not, it has caused considerable excitement in the landing site, Lower Sirubari Busty, 4km from Kurseong town. No one was injured, nor was Chettri?s house damaged but the spot where the object hit the ground had a crater almost six inches deep, suggest ing it came crashing at very high speed. Residents flocked to take a look at the ?metal-like? object which they described as round, and having fibres and many concentric layers inside. The thickness of the ?metal? was said to be around half an inch. Chettri said the object looked ?silvery? after cooling last night. It turned ?black? this morning, with Chettri saying it could be because of the overnight rain. According to the US centre for debris studies, the intense heat caused by friction with the atmosphere leads to melting, vaporisation or disintegration of objects coming back to Earth. But a component of a satellite or a rocket might be intact if its melting point is high enough and if its shape allows it to lose heat rapidly, the centre said. At least 20 objects that were once parts of rockets or satellites have fallen back since January 2008, according to the centre for orbital and debris studies, which has catalogued each re-entry and its expected path. The stage-3 of the Shavit rocket had been launched from Israel?s Palmachim Air Force Base on June 10 last year. Back in Lower Sirubari, many were more relieved than curious. ?This is the first time we have seen such an object. It was a scary moment for us but we were lucky no one was injured. We did not allow the police to take away the object initially as we wanted higher-ups=2 0in the administration to see it first,? said Kiran Rai. The district administration said it would take the object to Kurseong police station and send it to ?technical experts? for identification. ?The object must have fallen from space. We can?t confirm what it is, though. We have told the district magistrate,? said Manish Verma, the Kurseong block development officer. From mexicodoug at aim.com Sun Jul 13 09:51:11 2008 From: mexicodoug at aim.com (mexicodoug at aim.com) Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 09:51:11 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] July 10 fireball link/reentry material In-Reply-To: <8CAB2FF3DE0AABB-4B8-61B2@WEBMAIL-DF10.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CAB2FF3DE0AABB-4B8-61B2@WEBMAIL-DF10.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CAB306A4A46F1B-4B8-6378@WEBMAIL-DF10.sysops.aol.com> oops: here's the missing link to the story I just posted (with the picture) http://www.telegraphindia.com/1080712/jsp/frontpage/story_9539918.jsp PS In Iranian Farsi, Shahab means meteor; Iran has made the usual threats to Israel and with 24 hours of the July 8 fireball/Shavit Israel/Cyprus event, flexed their muscles by launching a few "new and improved" Shahabs. Naturaly, many Israelis were scared they might be Shahabs (Meteors), but it seems it turned out to be Israel's own Shavit (Comet)... From midwest at meteorman.org Sun Jul 13 13:18:07 2008 From: midwest at meteorman.org (Timothy Heitz) Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 10:18:07 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Nininger Moments References: <4878CA9B.9010407@kconline.com> Message-ID: Hello Al, Lots of information and a great deal of hard work in doing Nininger Moments. Wonderful job. Cheers, Tim Heitz ----- Original Message ----- From: "ALMitt" To: "Meteorite List" Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 8:15 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Nininger Moments > Greetings to all, > > With a consorted and dedicated effort on the part of Paul Harris and the > Meteorite.com site, we have moved the Nininger Moments which have been > absent from the web for a few months to this site for a new location on > the web for all to enjoy when they want to. > > Photos have been added and will be added from time to time. Some > modifications to the Nininger Moments, along with a newer look and more > pleasing format should make these easy to browse and read. > > The Nininger Moments are various short stories about Nininger's life, > meteorite hunting, and adventures he had along the long way of acquiring > one of the most impressive collections in the history of the modern > meteorite era. > > Please check out this site at: http://www.meteorite.com/nininger/ > > I still need to get back to some people on some items I wish to use and > hope to add to this site. > > All my best! > > --AL Mitterling > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From minador at yahoo.com Sun Jul 13 11:22:34 2008 From: minador at yahoo.com (Mark Bowling) Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 08:22:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Re Cu meteorite In-Reply-To: <002301c8e4b0$e43e14f0$0a01a8c0@bellatrix> Message-ID: <969986.65559.qm@web50403.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Thanks Chris, I've wondered about this a long time, but have been unsuccessful in finding an explanation. Mark --- On Sat, 7/12/08, Chris Peterson wrote: > From: Chris Peterson > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Re Cu meteorite > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Saturday, July 12, 2008, 11:22 PM > Many fireballs, especially slow ones, show strongly green. > This has nothing > to do with the composition of the body, however (meteor > colors in general > are not strongly related to composition). The green color > is the 558nm > forbidden oxygen line. Slower meteors are not as hot, so > their intrinsic > thermal (blackbody) radiation is less likely to swamp out > the atmospheric > emission. > > Chris > > ***************************************** > Chris L Peterson > Cloudbait Observatory > http://www.cloudbait.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark Bowling" > To: > Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 12:09 AM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Re Cu meteorite > > > > I've seen a few green fireballs/bolides over the > years. The flame test of > > copper is green so I've always wondered about this > subject myself. > > Geologic > > processes have produced relatively huge masses of > copper in the earth, and > > I > > don't see why that cannot occur elsewhere in the > solar system. But I'm > > just > > a biased copper miner... ;-) Something like that > would be quite rare, but > > possible I think. From fcressy at prodigy.net Sun Jul 13 11:27:05 2008 From: fcressy at prodigy.net (Frank Cressy) Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 08:27:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Pairing ?-Type Asteroids to OC's (fromArkansas) In-Reply-To: <00b601c8e2ea$c28945e0$db5de146@ATARIENGINE> Message-ID: <463853.73294.qm@web80205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello Sterling and all, Just got around to catching up on the list mail and read these threads about pairing of young asteroid families. I wonder why the authors used the Fayetteville meteorite to compare to the spectral data of their "young" asteroid families since Fayetteville is more than just an ordinary chondrite. In fact it is classified as a regolith breccia or a meteorite that is composed of the same old weathered "space dirt" that has they are trying to avoid by looking at the spectral data at "young" asteroid families. Maybe these families aren't as fresh and "young" as the authors thought. Curious ;-) Cheers, Frank --- "Sterling K. Webb" wrote: > Doug, List, > > Here is the another presentation article on the > age and number of asteroid families by David > Nesvorn? and William Bottke of SwRI: > http://www.on.br/acm2005/presentation/R9.2.pdf > Very colorful presentation, despite the fact that > the document code contains the meta-title: > "Design of a Locomotive Engine for Dalian > Locomotive & Rolling Stock Works." > > Now, I'm trying to figure out why Salvador Dali > would want SwRI to design a locomotive engine > for him, and just what a Dalian Locomotive would > look like... > > > Sterling K. Webb > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 5:25 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Pairing ?-Type > Asteroids to OC's > (fromArkansas) > > > Hi Listees: > > There may be a little more going on here than this > quickly published > note with such a glorious title "Discovery of the > Source of the Most > Common Meteorites". It seemed a little odd and > quickly put together. > Probably is some good work, but ... I see next week > at the Asteroids, > Comets and Meteors Meeting, > > http://acm2008.jhuapl.edu/ > > is the following paper: > > PHYSICAL CHARACTERIZATION OF VERY YOUNG ASTEROID > FAMILIES. P. > Vernazza1, R. P. > Binzel2, A. Rossi3, M. Birlan4, S. Fornasier5, M. > Fulchignoni5, S. > Renner6. > > http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/acm2008/pdf/8044.pdf > > In which the Datura and other families have their > spectra taken and > studies. > > Hmmm ... sounds like someone may be looking for some > extra press a few > days before the ACM meeting. Vernazza, Binzel, et > al group has done > the spectra up to 2.5 microns and looks like a much > more comprehensive > work. > > Also in my original comments, I mentioned S-Type > Asteroids. I take > that back until it can be confirmed - from the press > release they may > be Q-Type a stony sub-group (with metal), and > uncommon subcategory. > Time will shortly expose more of this if it hasn't > already. > > Best wishes, > Doug > > > > > > I wrote: > > http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/07/080710103903.htm > > The press release was confusing to me at first, > highlighting the > Fayetteville H4 (fall, Arkansas) meteorite. Perhaps > they did because of > being fresh and closer to the surface (?) in the > parent body model. Not > sure why the 1270 Datura family, etc., would be > expected to be from the > relatively rarer surface of the original parent body > vs more common > heat altered interior). > > In any caseit seems they are NOT claiming that > (1270) Datura is the > parent body to any of our meteorites (how could it > be - don't virtually > all ordinary chondrites have CRE's of floating > around as meteoroids > well over 1 million years?) > > However, it seems they are pointint out that because > it is an S-type > asteroid that has apparently suffered a collision > only 450,000 years > ago(which was shown by other researcher a studying > the probabilities of > members' orbits couple of years ago), it gives an > opportunity to study > fresher material of this most common high silicate > asteroid type by > telescopic spectroscopy, and they had an opportunity > to take the > spectra. I guess they only look at the 0.5 and 1 um > peak because it is > more sensitive to space weathering (?), but this > isn't too clear > either. (the authors didn't extend it to the typical > 2.5 microns where > some good stuff is visible - at least not in figure > in the press > release). > > In any case, their proposed contribution seems that > they measured > spectra of theyoung Datura family and compared it to > ordinary chondrite > spectra and got a better match than ever before > helping to solve the > conjecture that the common asteroid class (second > only to supposed > carbonaceous chondrites typed asteroids) should be > paired to common > meteorites. Hopefully they make a case for a trend > in asteroid > reflectance spectra vs. age, vs. a one hit wonder, > but there still seem > to be more complexities to be ironed out regarding > what meteorite is > appropriate to compare to what asteroid in the clan, > IMO. Maybe > Fayetteville was just selected because it is what > they had access to... > Article sounds like it will be a good one. Comments? > > Best wishes, Doug > > PS Interestingly, Wikipedia (at this moment - no > doubt it will be fixed > by someone reading this) says the Datura cluster > formed 450 MILLION > years ago and a probable source of zodiacal dust.... > Maybe Wikipedia > can't be trusted yet again, once the dust has > settled :) > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From mikewren at gilanet.com Sun Jul 13 13:20:36 2008 From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham) Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 11:20:36 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Auctions Ending With Highlights Added, 20% Off Sale! Message-ID: <200807131122537.SM01480@yourfsyly0jtwn> ________________________________________ From: michael cottingham [mailto:mikewren at gilanet.com] Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 11:20 AM To: 'michael cottingham' Subject: AD: Auctions Ending With Highlights Added, 20% Off Sale! Hello, I am going camping for a couple of days and so I am giving my highlighted auctions early! I have some nice pieces ending on Weds/16th and I have a sale running in my ebay store.. Thanks and Happy Buying! http://stores.ebay.com/VOYAGE-BOTANICA-NATURAL-HISTORY or these. Very Rare and Beautiful, NWA 801, CR2, 2.09g, nice specimen! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200237007321 Ungrouped Ataxite, DRONINO, Russia, 117.50 g, Full Slice! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200237017311 Very Difficult To Acquire DRESDEN, Canada, H6, SUPER RARE! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200237017314 Rare Georgia Fall of 1829, FORSYTH, L6, RARE, Rare, Rare. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200237692979 Super Rare GEORGETOWN, Australia, 5.18 gram, An amazing opportunity! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200237692980 Super Rare Fall From France, CHATEAU RENARD, Only Piece I have! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200237692987 (NEW) An Amazing LL5, NWA 2380, 44.21 gram, Really A Great Specimen! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200237692993 Superb MONTURAQUI Impactite Individual 7.45g, I collected This Myself! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200237007327 (NEW), NWA 5054, L5, 24.06 gram, Not many specimens left! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200237007332 A Classic, OZONA, Texas, H6 Chondrite, 11.98g, A Good Size Specimen! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200237007346 Most Sought After! BONITA SPRINGS, FL. 0.52g, One of My Last. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200237007352 1 Kilo Lot of Unclassified NWA, 1,000g , Still A Good Deal! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200237007359 A very Rare EL3 From Africa, NWA 2965, 196g, Getting Rarer in Big Specimens. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200237014670 The LAHOMA, Beautiful L5 From Ok. 23.32g Lot, I am down to my last specimens! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200237692973 A Classic, OZONA, Texas, H6 Chondrite, 22.33g, I listed a second piece by accident. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200237692970 Very Rare Achondrite, NWA 2635, 0.85 gram, also down to my last! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200237692999 NORTHBRANCH, Kansas, H5, 7.29 gram, Another Great American Meteorite! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200237693005 H7 Meteorite, Super Rare, NWA 4229, 1.06 gram, Only a few left. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200237693009 A Classic H4 From Texas-DIMMITT, 2.39 gram, nice piece. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200237017303 Rare LL3.5 Chondrite, NWA 2920, 2.22 gram http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200237017299 (NEW), NWA 5054, Wholesale Lot, L5, 514g, A great Deal! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200237007347 Very Rare DHOFAR 007,Cumulate Eucrite, 1.85g http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200237007341 NWA 2621, L4, Really Nice, 8.23 gram, Only a couple of this number to offer. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200237007330 Thanks and Best Wishes Michael Cottingham From cynapse at charter.net Sun Jul 13 14:04:51 2008 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 14:04:51 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Okay, they've found the water, but where's the green cheese? In-Reply-To: <8CAB2FF3DE0AABB-4B8-61B2@WEBMAIL-DF10.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CAB2FF3DE0AABB-4B8-61B2@WEBMAIL-DF10.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <5rgk7499m6fju3do0cft7efoevd77vci7v@4ax.com> http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/08/science/space/08moon.html?em&ex=1216094400&en=82ab430be8c95359&ei=5087%0A July 8, 2008 The Keepers of the Moon By GUY GUGLIOTTA HOUSTON ? In the lab, the Moon rocks look nondescript ? dark gray basalt, a whitish mineral called anorthosite and mixtures of the two with crystals thrown in. Yet nearly 40 years after the Apollo astronauts brought the first rocks back to Earth, these pieces of the Moon are still providing scientists with new secrets from another world. ?We call this one the ?genesis? rock, because it was formed close to the time the Moon solidified about 4.5 billion years ago,? said Carlton C. Allen, pointing to a light-colored stone about the size and shape of a large artist?s eraser, resting inside a glove box filled with inert nitrogen gas. ?We know the Big Bang happened about 14.5 billion years ago,? Mr. Allen said, ?and this rock is a third that old. You will never see a solid piece of stuff in our solar system that is any older.? Mr. Allen is the astromaterials curator at the Johnson Space Center, home of the Lunar Sample Laboratory Facility, a secure repository opened in 1979 to house 842 pounds of Moon rocks and soil collected by astronauts in six visits. The rocks on the lunar surface, lying virtually unchanged in a weatherless vacuum since their formation, offer opportunities to investigate the origin and evolution of the solar system available nowhere else, and the study deepens with each new generation of scientists and scientific instruments. Each year an independent peer review panel evaluates new research proposals, and curators mail out about 400 lunar samples to 40 to 50 scientists worldwide. Almost all are less than one gram in size. ?We don?t hand them out, we only loan them,? Mr. Allen said. ?We?re not planning to run out any time soon.? Over the years, the samples have provided uncounted insights into the nature of our closest celestial neighbor. Because of the samples, we have learned when the Moon was formed, probably (although it is still controversial) the result of a planetoid smashing into the young Earth, throwing a cloud of debris into space that subsequently came together in a sphere. The samples have confirmed that asteroid and meteor impacts, not volcanism, created the vast majority of craters that define the Moon?s topography, while a constant barrage of meteorites, micrometeorites and radiation melted and pureed the bedrock to create the blanket of fine-grained soil and dust ? known as regolith ? that now cloaks the lunar surface. And knowing the ages of Moon rocks, which can be computed to within 20 million years, has enabled scientists to establish a baseline that allows them to date geologic features throughout the solar system. The surface of the Earth, one of the solar system?s youngest topographies, is constantly changing, as it is faulted, folded, shaped and reshaped by eruptions, earthquakes and erosion. By contrast, the Moon is as old as it gets. ?It?s hard to wrap your mind around a place where nothing ever happens,? Mr. Allen said. ?But the Moon is that place.? In recent years the rocks have also helped researchers to answer practical questions that have emerged since President Bush?s 2004 proposal to return to the Moon by 2020 and set up a permanent outpost. Planners are using the rocks to study the pernicious effects of regolith on machinery and astronaut health. They are learning how to extract oxygen and other vital elements from lunar rocks and soil. And they need to understand how to shield living spaces from the deadly radiation that eternally pounds the lunar surface. The samples ? 2,200 of them ? are kept in nitrogen-filled boxes in a stainless steel vault on the second floor of the 14,000-square-foot repository, and are transferred to other parts of the lab in airlocks. Technicians prepare shipments in glove boxes containing sterile tools and containers. The samples are numbered and sorted by expedition. All of the Apollo landings, beginning with Apollo 11?s historic mission in 1969 and ending with Apollo 17 in December 1972, were at equatorial sites, but terrain differed each time and the samples reflect the differences. The genesis rock was collected by Apollo 15 astronauts near Hadley Rille at the border between a lowland ?sea,? or mare, and the lunar highlands. The arrival of the first Moon rocks in 1969 was eagerly anticipated by scientists. ?We had no idea what the Moon was made of,? Mr. Allen recalled, and the first two decades of research focused on basic questions ? the age and composition of the Moon rocks and the origin and evolution of the Moon?s geology and salient topographical features. The early Moon developed as a mostly liquid ball of magma covered with a thin crust of lighter minerals. The crust became the white anorthosite, which floated atop the magma to form the lunar highlands. The basalt erupted later and subsequently solidified in the lowland maria. The anorthosite and similar rock types in the highlands and basalt lavas in the maria are the Moon?s basic building blocks. Other rocks are breccias ? crushed and broken rock fragments, fused by the heat from impact collisions and ejected from the resulting crater. Researchers saw that the highlands had more craters than the maria. This meant they had been hit with more impacts so the highland rocks were relatively older. But once they had the rocks in hand, they could determine their absolute age in years. This enabled them to make a template that could work anywhere in the solar system. The Moon showed that a site with rocks of a certain age would have a predictable number of craters of different sizes. And since the rate of impacts was presumably similar throughout the solar system, the lunar dates could be used as a benchmark to estimate the age of surfaces elsewhere. ?This was a key thing, that impact was a significant and fundamental phenomenon that affected not only the Moon and planets, but life itself,? said the planetary geologist Paul D. Spudis, of the Lunar and Planetary Institute in Houston. ?We had known that impacts occurred, but until the rocks, we had viewed them as a geological oddity.? No longer. In the early 1980s, scientists were able to show that terrestrial mineral and crystal deposits 65 million years old were similar to those found routinely in lunar ejecta. This led to the now widely accepted theory that the consequences of an asteroid impact had wiped out the dinosaurs. Lunar scientists now suspect this insight may have further implications. Analysis of the lunar samples and impact craters has shown that the Moon?s surface was solid 4.3 billion years ago, yet the oldest impact rocks among the samples are 3.9 billion years old. Some researchers have suggested that impacts on the moon began to taper off 4.3 billion years ago, only to resume with a vengeance in a ?cataclysm? 400 million years later. And if the cataclysm affected the Moon, it also affected the Earth ? at a time when life was just beginning. ?This is very controversial,? said Charles Shearer, a lunar scientist at the University of New Mexico and the chairman of the lunar lab?s peer review committee. ?It?s probably important to sample other terrains.? This is part of the lure of Mr. Bush?s lunar initiative, which calls for a base near the South Pole and exploration of the Moon?s entire surface, including the far side. These possibilities, Mr. Allen said, ?have the scientific community really jazzed.? But not everyone. ?It is very difficult to justify the Moon as a primary goal for human spaceflight ? there?s not enough new to find out,? said Robert Zubrin, president of the Mars Society and a critic of renewed lunar exploration. ?If we want a challenge, Mars is it. Are you really going to inspire the youth of today by repeating the technological feats of their grandparents?? One of these ?grandparents? is a University of Tennessee lunar geologist, Lawrence A. Taylor, 70, an expert on regolith. He has developed ways to extract oxygen from the lunar dust, and, based on the knowledge that regolith contains metallic iron, he patented a method of microwaving the soil to transform it into a glass that can be used as a hard surface for spacecraft landings and takeoffs or for roads. Mr. Taylor has also developed a way to ?vacuum? iron particles from lunar dust using a tube filled with electromagnets. And he is on NASA committees advising medical doctors on astronaut health and engineers on lunar habitat. ?People have started calling on me right and left,? Mr. Taylor said. ?For years people contacted me mainly out of curiosity, but now I?m in the limelight.? From dragonsoup at msn.com Sun Jul 13 15:27:02 2008 From: dragonsoup at msn.com (Maria Haas) Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 12:27:02 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Help With Gary Foote's Recovery! Update In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Everyone, Gary came through his surgery very well! He still has a long road ahead of him but his prognosis is very good. Gary and CJ (Cynthia) have asked me to pass along their HUGE thanks for your support and good wishes. They will write you all when they can. They still need help and we've decided to sell the donated items through silent auction. I do not have pictures yet but this is what has been pledged so far: - An original painting(!) of the Tagish Lake fall by Jerry Armstrong You can see his work at (http://michaelbloodmeteorites.com/JerryArmstrong.html and http://www.fallingrocks.com/paintings.htm) - A gold-finish Nininger coin donated by Rob Wesel. Only 10 gold-finish coins were made! It's is similar to this one: http://www.nakhladogmeteorites.com/catalog/nincoin.htm - Canyon Diablo individuals, 613 grams total, donated by Ruben Garcia - Two bricks from the Nininger Museum will be sold separately, anonymously donated If you have any meteorite or meteorite-related items you'd like to donate, please don't hesitate to contact me. Also, Eric Olsen's eBay auction where he's donating the proceeds of NWA 2987 (Prov.), a crusted individual Martian, ends in a little over a day. You can see it at http://tinyurl.com/6rxy3d. Grocery gift cards can be purchased for their use through Hanneford's at (888) 646-2577. Have them issue the card in Cynthia Foote's name for the Morrisville, Vermont store. The gift card service center will have the card ready at their store for her to pick up. Hanneford's website and info about the gift cards is at http://www.hannaford.com/Contents/Our_Stores/Gift_Cards/index.shtml. You cannot buy the cards online but you can read about them on the website. Please let me know that you've sent a card and I will make sure CJ knows it is there. Thank you! Maria From mlblood at cox.net Sun Jul 13 16:10:58 2008 From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael L Blood) Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 13:10:58 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Zunhua (AD) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Everyone, Mike Farmer was able to get 62g of Zunhua and they sold Out in a few days. I have been able to get nearly 3 grams in 3 specimens from nearly 1/2 gram to 1.7+ g. You can see them At the bottom of my hammer page at: http://www.michaelbloodmeteorites.com/Hammers.html One of them even has FC. Best wishes, Michael Going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a car. From rcroning at mts.net Sun Jul 13 16:26:32 2008 From: rcroning at mts.net (Ralph A. Croning) Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 15:26:32 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Cu Meteorite In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20080713151813.032f6490@pop.mts.net> Hi All, Besides the metal content of a meteorite we also have to consider the optical emission of ionized gases around a meteor/bolide as a source of its colour. Oxygen molecules will glow blue/green when excited (ionized) and nitrogen, red. The oxygen is stated as blue/green because of people's colour perception. To some it will apprear blue and to others, green. Hope this helps. Cheers, Ralph A. Croning IMCA#4326 >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Message: 1 >Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 23:09:41 -0700 >From: "Mark Bowling" >Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Re Cu meteorite >To: >Message-ID: <0f3701c8e4af$0abce360$2036aa20$@com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >I've seen a few green fireballs/bolides over the years. The flame test of >copper is green so I've always wondered about this subject myself. Geologic >processes have produced relatively huge masses of copper in the earth, and I >don't see why that cannot occur elsewhere in the solar system. But I'm just >a biased copper miner... ;-) Something like that would be quite rare, but >possible I think. > >Clear skies! > >-- >Mark B. >Vail, AZ >IMCA #6645 o(:-) From cynapse at charter.net Mon Jul 14 01:27:59 2008 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 01:27:59 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Mamemake mademade plutonpluton In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: http://planetarynames.wr.usgs.gov/append7.html#DwarfPlanets From mary.kashuba at verizon.net Mon Jul 14 02:49:56 2008 From: mary.kashuba at verizon.net (Kashuba) Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 23:49:56 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Mamemake mademade plutonpluton In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <003601c8e57d$d4e577a0$7eb066e0$@kashuba@verizon.net> Off the subject, but it looks like they have crossed up the meaning of the names of the two Mars moons. - John John Kashuba Ontario, California -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Darren Garrison Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 10:28 PM To: Meteorite List Subject: [meteorite-list] Mamemake mademade plutonpluton http://planetarynames.wr.usgs.gov/append7.html#DwarfPlanets ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Mon Jul 14 03:02:37 2008 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 02:02:37 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Mamemake mademade plutonpluton References: Message-ID: <022501c8e57f$9a105cb0$db5de146@ATARIENGINE> "Easterbunny" or Minor Planet 136472, or 2005 FY9 is now Makemake, pronounced Maki-maki, the Fertility/ Creator God of the Bird Man Cult of Rapa Nui, or "Easter Island." The name was suggested by the discoverer, Mike Brown. Such objects must be named after Creator Deities. You may think that limits the number of such objects that can be named, but we have a way to go. Here is a list of Creator Deities from around the world. (If you are planning on discovering such a planet, you may want to keep the list handy.) "Makemake" isn't on it (already taken). At least, he didn't name it Chicoonahuiehecatl. The format is Name of God, Type of Creator, Culture: Aakuluujjusi, Creator mother, Inuit Abassi, Creator of the world, Efik Abira, Creator, Antioquia Aditi, Supreme creator of all that has been created, Hindu Aebhel Afekan, Creator goddess, Melanesia/Guinea Afekan, Creator goddess, Melanesia/New Guinea Agu'gux, Creator god who was claimed to be the Christian god under Russia Orthodox priests, Aleut Akongo, Supreme and creator god, Ngombe Al Lat, Goddess of fertility, procreation and the earth, Arabic Alatangana Kono, One of the two creator deities, this god created land from swamp, Africa(west)/Guinea Amen, Primordial creation deity, Egypt Amma, Creator god with a novel story, Dogon/Mali Amun, Supreme creator god, Egypt Ananse, Creator of the sun, stars, day, moon and night who often intercedes between gods and mortals, Ashanti Anshur, Not only the goddess of the sun, she also killed the dragon of chaos during creation, Assyria Aondo Tiv, Creator god who lives in the sky, Nigeria Apap Teso, Creator god who as a benevolent sky god brings rain, Uganda Ararat, Creator goddess, Anatolia Archons, Primordial creator gods, Christian/Gnostic Asase Ya, Goddess of the earth, fertility and the creator of humanity, Ashanti Ataa Naa Nyongmo Gan, Creator god who controls the sun and the rain, call causes disasters as epidemics and and earthquakes if you don't follow his rules, Ghana Atahensic, Goddess of the sky who fell to the earth at the beginning of creation, Iroquois Atua Fafine Tikopia, Creator being, Polynesia Atua I Raropuka Tikpoa, Creator deity, Polynesia Au Co, Creator of humanity, Vietnam Ayt'ar, God of procreation, Slavic Baau, Creator goddess, Phoenicia Banga Ngbandi, Creator god and creator of white skinned people, Zaire Bes, God of childbirth, food, love, marriage, luck, recreation, relaxation and sleep, Egypt Bonchor, God thought to be the creator deity, Tunisia Brahma, Supreme god and creator of the cosmos, Hindu Cacoh, Creator god, Mayan Cagn Mantis, Creator, Africa Cakra, Mind of the creator, Hindu Ce Actal, Minor creator god, Aztec Cghene, Creator god with no material aspect, but a nice guy, no temple or priest, Nigeria/Isoko Chicoonahuiehecatl, Minor creator god, Aztec Chiuke Ibo, Sky god who is also regarded as Creator god, Nigeria Cholmus, Creator of animals, Siberia Chul Tatic Chites Vaneg, Creator god, Mayan Cihuacoatl-Quilaztli, Creator goddess with a rather unique way of creating humanity, Aztec Citalatonac, Creator god, Aztec Citlalicue, Creator goddess and the goddess of Milky Way, Aztec Coniraya, Creator of all things and founder of agriculture, Quechua Coyote, Demigod/creator/trickste,r Pan-W.USA Dagan, Fertility and grain god who in the Ugatitic creation myth was the father of Baal, Babylon/Akkadia/Canaan Daramulum, Lunar being and mediator between the creator and humans, Australia Demogorgon, Mysterious spirit/creator god, Greek Disa, In minor goddess and the momma of the minor creation god Sarga, Hindu/Puranic/Epic Dyaus Pitar, Creator god, Hindu/India/Vedic E Alom, Primeval creator goddess, Mayan E Quhalom, Primeval creator god, Mayan/Quiche Eka Abassi, Creator of life, Africa Elkunisra, Creator god, Hittite/Canaan Ellil, Creator and air god, Babylon/Akkadia Emeli Hin, Creator god and generic term meaning, Lord Sudan/Tuareg Enki, Creator god, water, cunning and fertility, Mesopotamia/Sumeria Epimetheus, Minor creator god, Roman/Greek Es Ket, Creator god who fashioned humans from clay, Siberia Eurynome, Goddess of the sea and in one account she is the goddess of all creation, Greek Ewauna Coquille, Creator goddess, PNW Fidi Mukullu Bena Lulua, Creator god, Zaire Gamab, Supreme god and creator of the world who lives beyond the stars, Africa Gestu, Minor god of the intellect whose blood was used in the creation of mankind, after his death, Babylon/Mesopotamia/Akkadia/Sumeria Gluskap, Creator force, Algonquin God, Claimed to be the creator god around 325 C.E., still in vouge by the Christian sect, Roman/Christian/germanic/Anglo-Saxon Great Mother, Lady represents the female principle of creation, Celtic Gucumatz, Creator god, Quiche Gulu, Creator god, Dinka Hachacyum, Creator the world who was helped by three other gods, Mayan Hathor, Goddess of procreation, sexuality, romance, trees, poetry, music, alcohol, childbirth, infants, death, fertility, love, marriage, beauty, joy and the sky, Egypt Hiranyagarbha, Creator god identified in the Rig Veda, the demon King who proclaimed himself king of the universe, Hindu/Vedic Huiracocha, Supreme deity accused of a virgin birth and creator of of the world, Inca Hun Hunapu, Creator god, Mayan Hunab Ku, Most important creator god and the greatest deity in the pantheon, Mayan Huracan, Creator god who fashioned the first humans, Quiche Ihoiho, Creator god who created everything including the primeval waters, Society Islands. Il or El, Creator god, Syria/Canaan/Lebanon Imra Kafir, Creator god who is still worshipped today, Afghanistan Innana, Goddess of love, procreation, and war, Sumeria Ioskeha, Creator of the first man and woman, Iroquois Itzam Na, Creator god, water, agriculture, drawing, healing, medicine and the moon, Mayan Iusaas, Creator goddess, Egypt Ix Zacal Nok, Inventor of weaving as well as Creator goddess, Mayan Ixpiyacoc, Creation god, Mayan Izanagi, One of the 17 creator gods and the male primeval god, Japan/Shinto Izanami-No-Kami Izamnami, Creator goddess who died and giving birth to the fire god as well as the primeval female goddess, Japan/Shinto Jehovah, Creator god, this form was created by the the Jehovah witnesses and is not considered a true name of this god, Christian Jok, Creator god, Africa Juck Shilluck, Creator of the world, Africa Julunggul, Creator god who was the bringer of culture and identified with of the rainbow-snake, Australia Juok and, Creator of all men, Bunzi Ka Tyeleo Senufo, Creator god, Ivory Coast Kalisia Pygmy, Creator god who is the guardian of hunters and the jungle forests, Congo/Zaire Kalunga Ndonga, Creator of all things, Africa(south) Kami-Musubi-No-Kami, Third creator being in the primordial a list of deities, this being was born alone in the cosmos and its presence remains hidden from humans, Japan/Shinto Karora, Creator, Arandan Katavul, Ultimate creator all who exists in the world and able to judge humanity and to reward or punish, India/Tamil/Sri Lanka Kazyoba Nyamwezi, God of the sun-held to be the creator and tutelary deity of the tribe, Tanzania Ketq Skwaye, Creator, Huron Khadau Amur, Creator god, neat story, Siberia Khepera, Blue haired scarab god of transformation, water, creation and warriors, Egypt Khovaki, Creator of the world, Siberia Kingu, Demon mentioned in the creation epic, Akkadia Kokyan, Creator goddess; she created humans, plants, and animals, Hopi Kolpia, Creator god, Phoenicia Kombu Bantu, God of creation, Africa Kuk, Primeval god, one of a pair, a member of the Ogdoad, who represent the darkness who reigned prior to the creation of any heavenly body, Egypt Kulla, God of builders and responsible for the creation of brick,s Babylon/Akkadia Kumarbi[s], Creator/father of the gods, Hittite/Hurrian Kumokums Modoc, Creator god, Oregon Kwoth Nuer, Creator god, north Sudan Latipan, Creator god, see Il for particulars, Canaan Latmikaik, Goddess of the sea, co-creator and co-ruler of the world, Pelew Is. Lesa, Creator god, Africa(south) Leza Bantu, Creator god, Zimbabwe Libanza Upotos, Creator god, Zaire Lodur[r], Creator god mentioned in the creation myth, germanic Madalait, Creator goddess, Oceania Mahaskti, Divine mother, goddess of war, passion, and wisdom, Supreme creator of the universe, India Maheo Cheyenne, Creator manitou who lived in the void and created the primordial water of life, USA Makunaimma Carib, Creator of the heavens, humans, and animals in no particular order, Caribbean Malamanganga'e, Creator being who was a personification of light, Polynesia Malamangangaifo, Creator being who was a personification of light, Polynesia Mamaldi Amur, Co-creator of earth but she was killed by her husband for creating Asia, for spite she created souls for at the magicians he built, Siberia Manohel-Tohel, Creator god, Mayan Manu, Primordial creator god, Hindu/Vedic Mayon, Creator god, Dravidian/Tamil Mbitumbo Baule, Creator and guardian god, Ivory Coast Mbomba Mongo, Creator god, Zaire Mehet-Weret, Minor goddess of the creation accounts, Egypt Mizu-Ha-No-Me, Senior water goddess who came about from the urine of the primordial creator goddess, Japan/Shinto Mkulumncandi Swazi, Creator god known as the great first one, Swaziland Moma Uitoto, God who originally was the creator of mankind and the apotheosis of the moon, South America Moombi, Creator goddess, Kikuyu Mula Djadi Tobak, Creator god who created everything and lives in the highest of all seven heavens, Sumatra Mungu, Creator god, Africa(east) Na Pe', Creator who was not a very nice entity, rather human in his actions, Canada/USA Na'ininen, Benevolent creator being, Koryak Nahuti Ollin, Creator god, Aztec Nanabush, Creator and good spirit, Algonquin Nanahuatl, Creator god, Aztec Narayana, Creator god thought to be synonymous with business, Hindu/Puranic/Epic Nareau, Creator god, Melanesia Nazambi, Creator god, Zaire Nazapa Ngbandi, Creator god who is invoked at the sunrise, Zaire Nediyon, Creator god, Dravidian/Tamil Nefertum, Minor primordial god of creation from lower Egypt, Egypt Ng ai, Creator of the universe, Masai NgaiKikuyu, Creator god, Africa(east) Ngewo, Creator/supreme god, Western Tropics Niamye, Creator god, Ivory Coast Ninhursagaa, Goddess of the earth and creator of humans, fertility and productivity, Babylon/Mesopotamia/Akkadia/Sumeria/Iraq Nudimmud, Creator god who was rapidly syncretized with the Akkadia god Ea, Mesopotamia/Sumeria Nunbarsegunu, Rather obscure mother goddess mentioned in the creation taxed as the old woman of Nippur, Babylon/Mesopotamia/Akkadia/Sumeria Nut, Creator goddess of the heavens, Egypt Nyame Akan, Creator god/goddess and androgynous being, Ghana Nzame, Creator, who was really three in one, Bantu Oduduwa, Creator goddess of fertility and love, Yoruba Ogdoad, Eight primordial elements of chaos, they exist prior to the creation of God of the sun and known in Middle Egypt, Egypt Ohoromoxtotil, Creator the sun, made the world in habitable by destroying the jaguars who once infested it, Mayan Olodumare, Creator god to whom the souls of the dead are expected to make a confession, Nigeria Olorun, Creator/supreme god, Yoruba Orisanla, Sky god who was designated to be the creator of earth and living things, Nigeria/Yoruba Osandobua Edo, Benign creator god who controls prosperity, health and happiness, Benin Panao Kafir, Creator god, also generic title for deities controlling the natural world, they lived in the mountains, Afghanistan Perun, God of thunder, also creator, Russia Pidray, Minor goddess of fertility noted in creation texts and treaties, Phoenicia/Canaan Pon Yukaghir, Supreme creator god worshiped from prehistoric times until at least 1900 C. E., Siberia Prthu, Creator god who was the head of the solar pantheon, an avatar of Visnu, Hindu/Vedic Purusa, Primeval creator god, the primordial being from whom the cosmos was formed, Hindu/Vedic Qamai'ts, Creator goddess who lives in the upper heavens and controls the earth, she is never prayed to, BC Canada Quat, Creator god who knows how to enjoy life, Melanesia/Banks Is. Quiahuitl, Creator god/sun deity of the third of the five world ages, Aztec Quootis Hooi, Creator goddess, Chinook Ragno, Creation goddess, Hopi Rubanga Alur, Creator god, Uganda Ruhanga Bunyoro, Creator god was the initiator of the world, regarded as distant, if ever invoked, Uganda Rukko, Creator, Mandaean Sa Kono, Creator god, one of a pair of creator deities, Guinea Sabaoth, Creator god, Christian/Gnostic Samael, Creator god aka the blind god, Christian/Gnostic Seyon, Creator god, Dravidian/Tamil Shang Ti, Creator god, China/Taoist Shomde Kafir, Local creator god known throughout HinduKush, Afghanistan Suku Ovimbundu, Creator god sky at, the rivers, people, and mountains, Africa Taka-Mi-Musubi-No-Kama, Primordial creator being, Japan/Shinto Tate, Creator spirit of the winds, he controls the changing of the seasons and guides the spirits of dead, Sioux Te-Aka-Ia-Roe, Creator being, Polynesia/Hervey Is. Te-Manava-Roa, Creator being, one of three Hervey Is. Te-Tanga-Engae, Creator being, Polynesia/Hervey Is. Teharonhiawagon, Creator spirit, Mohawk Tenanto'mwan, Creator spirit, Koryak Tenato'mni, Creator spirit, Siberia/Chukchee Tiamat, Goddess of chaos in the creation myth, Mesopotamia Tiki, Creator god who created mankind, Polynesia Tino Taata, Creator god regarded as the tutelary deity who created mankind, Society Is. Tirumal, Creator god equated with Visnu, Dravidian/Tamil Tlaltecuhli, Chthonic creator goddess, the ruler of the second of the 13 heavens, Aztec Tloque, Creator god, Aztec Tloque Nahaque, Creator god, Aztec Tomor, Creator and wind and god, he is still around, Albania Tomor, God of the winds as well as Creator god, he is still worshipped today, Albania Tomwo'get, Archetypical creator spirit, Koryak Tonatiluh, Creator god, presides over the fifth world age[this is the one we are in], Aztec Tonatiuh, Creator god who presides over the fifth world, Aztec Toro Ngbandi, Hcreator god, Zaire Tororut Pokot, Creator god, Uganda Totilma'il, Androgynous creator being, Mayan/Tzotzi Tsentsa, Good Creator Twin, Huron Tsichtinako, Female spirit of the creation myth, Acoma Tsunigoab Khoi, Creator god of who walks with a limp and was invoked at dawn each day, Namibia Tvastar, Creator god, Hindu/Vedic Ulu'tuyar Ulu Toyo'n Yakut, Rather evil creator spirit Umashii-Ashi-Kabi-Hiko-Ji-No-Kami, Creator being formed from the reeds floating on the primordial waters, Japan/Shinto Unkulunkulu, Creator god of the sky and chief deity, Zulu/Africa(south) Unumbotte Bassari, Creator god, Togo Uru'n Ajy Toyo'n, Creator being who lived in the north, east Siberia Vahguru Sikh, Creator god, India Vairacocha, Creator god, Inca Vari-Ma-Te-Takere, Mother goddess and creator been, whose six children had immaculate births, Hervey Is. Venda, Creator god, an ancient vegetation deity, Dravidian/Tamil Yangombi, God of creation, Bantu Yhi, Goddess of light and creator goddess, Karraur Zanahary, Creator god, Madagascar Zeme Mate, Creator of earth, Latvia Zipaltonal, Female spirit who is the creator of all earth, Nicaragua Wonder what he proposed for EL61? Sterling K. Webb -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darren Garrison" To: "Meteorite List" Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 12:27 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Mamemake mademade plutonpluton http://planetarynames.wr.usgs.gov/append7.html#DwarfPlanets ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Mon Jul 14 03:34:38 2008 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 02:34:38 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Mamemake mademade plutonpluton References: <003601c8e57d$d4e577a0$7eb066e0$@kashuba@verizon.net> Message-ID: <023201c8e584$12a66e40$db5de146@ATARIENGINE> Hi, John, List, Worse than reversed; the meanings are not merely reversed, but the misplaced meaning for Deimos, assigned to Phobos, is incorrectly translated, not simply poorly translated, but wrong. Phobos means "panic" or "fear" and Deimos means "terror" or "dread," not "flight." Makes you want to check the whole long list, but not at 2:30 in the morning... Sterling K. Webb ----------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kashuba" To: ; "'Meteorite List'" Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 1:49 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mamemake mademade plutonpluton Off the subject, but it looks like they have crossed up the meaning of the names of the two Mars moons. - John John Kashuba Ontario, California -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Darren Garrison Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 10:28 PM To: Meteorite List Subject: [meteorite-list] Mamemake mademade plutonpluton http://planetarynames.wr.usgs.gov/append7.html#DwarfPlanets ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu Mon Jul 14 07:23:10 2008 From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu (lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 04:23:10 -0700 (MST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Mamemake mademade plutonpluton In-Reply-To: <003601c8e57d$d4e577a0$7eb066e0$@kashuba@verizon.net> References: <003601c8e57d$d4e577a0$7eb066e0$@kashuba@verizon.net> Message-ID: <59476.71.226.60.25.1216034590.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> Hi All: Good catch John. Yes, I think that are backwards. Phobos as in Phobia. Also, for those of you who come to the Tucson Gem show, I can give you the background of Neptune VII (a little above the Dwarf Planet link), the only stellar occultation "discovery" of a planetary satellite. Larry On Sun, July 13, 2008 11:49 pm, Kashuba wrote: > Off the subject, but it looks like they have crossed up the meaning of > the names of the two Mars moons. > > - John > > > John Kashuba > Ontario, California > > > -----Original Message----- > From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Darren > Garrison > Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 10:28 PM > To: Meteorite List > Subject: [meteorite-list] Mamemake mademade plutonpluton > > > http://planetarynames.wr.usgs.gov/append7.html#DwarfPlanets > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From vs.petrovich at gmail.com Mon Jul 14 10:13:09 2008 From: vs.petrovich at gmail.com (Sergey Vasiliev) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 16:13:09 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: ebay auctions ending tomorrow Message-ID: Hello List, Few nice auctions will end tomorrow. Yurtuk (AHOW) Elenovka (L5) Koltsovo (H4) Ivuna (CI1) DG400 (ALUN-A) Chergach (H5) Ozernoe (L6) Jiddat al Harasis 124 (L5) - 246 g Take a look: http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/svassiliev Thanks! Sergey ----------------------------------------- Sergey Vasiliev U Dalnice 839, Prague 5, 15500 Czech Republic ------------------------------------------ http://www.sv-meteorites.com http://impactites.net http://systematic-mineralogy.com From libawc at emory.edu Mon Jul 14 11:13:48 2008 From: libawc at emory.edu (Anita D. Westlake) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 11:13:48 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Esquel? Message-ID: <00e001c8e5c4$37a52660$a6ef7320$@edu> Does anyone know the going rate for Esquel? How much can I expect per gram for a nicely polished slab? Anita D. Westlake From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Mon Jul 14 12:46:38 2008 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 14 Jul 2008 16:46:38 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] Esquel? Message-ID: Hello Anita and Esqueloids ;-) 1) http://www.planetbreymeteorites.com/ 2) http://www.meteoritehunter.com/ 3) http://www.arizonaskiesmeteorites.com/AZ_Skies_Links/Esquel/index.html 4) http://www.m3t3orites.com/meteorites/esquel.php 5) http://www.star-bits.com/esquel.htm 6) http://www.meteoritemarket.com/ESQ.htm Cheers, Bernd From fuzzfoot at comcast.net Mon Jul 14 14:27:32 2008 From: fuzzfoot at comcast.net (Mike Bandli) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 11:27:32 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Trying to reach Fredric Stephan Message-ID: <20080714182737.0655110599@mailwash5.pair.com> I am trying to reach Frederic Stephan. His voicemail is full and emails are bouncing. I hope everything is OK. I you have any info, please contact me off-list. Thank you! Kind regards, ? Mike Bandli www.Astro-Artifacts.com IMCA #5765 ? From bigpineartifacts at yahoo.com Mon Jul 14 15:17:36 2008 From: bigpineartifacts at yahoo.com (mckinney trammell) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 12:17:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] chergach,etc 4 sale GIVE AWAYS! Message-ID: <711242.68139.qm@web53210.mail.re2.yahoo.com> http://collectibles.search.ebay.com/_Meteorites-Tektites_W0QQcatrefZC12QQsacatZ3239QQsassZpaleoasis good stuff, cheap. forget websites, -get it here- perfect for resale, etc. From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Mon Jul 14 16:05:36 2008 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 16:05:36 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - July 14, 2008 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/July_14_2008.html **************Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com! (http://www.tourtracker.com?NCID=aolmus00050000000112) From star-bits at tx.rr.com Mon Jul 14 16:27:50 2008 From: star-bits at tx.rr.com (star-bits at tx.rr.com) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 16:27:50 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad - eBay auctions closing shortly + Foote Message-ID: <19375579.1760661216067270372.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web14-z02> Greetings I have a few auction closing shortly including the martian shergottite whose wiinnings will go to CJ Foote. The charity auction piece is still at only $150/gm. Look for the "Foote" in the title. In addition there are a few other pieces including another martian shergottite currently just over $100/gm a polymict diogenite 12.53 grams currently less than $1.50/gm. It usually lists for $25-30/gm that is 15 to 20 times the current bid. and others. See them all at -- Eric Olson 610 W. Moore Rd Tucson AZ 85755 http://www.star-bits.com From epgrondine at yahoo.com Mon Jul 14 17:00:18 2008 From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 14:00:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Getting NASA Money Message-ID: <795609.85526.qm@web36907.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi Steve - "I bet we meteorite hunters collectively could find 50 new different Martian meteorites for $80,000,000 if someone would put up the reward money. And science would learn MORE from those 50 than they would from one single one. Where do I apply to compete for some of this crazy grant money? Somebody help me get some!- Steve Arnold #1" Sure, Steve, you could get more SNCs by hunting than by sample return from Mars, but you forgot the important part: buying a rocket from a US manufacturer and launching it. So here's the plan. Buy a rocket, launch it, then use the money that you didn't spend for the lander/return to hunt for SNC's. Take SNC's, place in suitable fake container, drop from airplane, proclaim mission a success. Take money from Swiss Bank account, move to Brazil, buy real real nice meteorite collection. E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas From gmhupe at htn.net Mon Jul 14 20:48:02 2008 From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 20:48:02 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meso's & Muonio Slices - AD Message-ID: <002901c8e614$6fea0040$8eb6fea9@Gregor> Dear List Members, I would like to let all who are interested in some beautiful mesosiderite and Muonionalusta slices know that I have just received a great selection from the cutter to offer. These have been polished and/or etched to perfection! Here is the quick break down of what I have today (see below for the detailed and long lists which are worth checking out). These are on a "First come, First served" basis so if you see one or more that you like, do not hesitate to email me because I will go by the email time stamp to determine who was first. These are NOT on eBay (I'm trying a different approach here, for me anyway). NWA 1878 Mesosiderite (we haven't offered this for about 5 years) NWA 1879 Mesosiderite (we haven't offered this for about 4 years) NWA 2932 Mesosiderite (First time offering polished slices!!) Muonionalusta IVA Iron (many excellent etched slices and end cuts) NOTE: These are slices unless indicated otherwise. Slices are 3-4mm thick. NWA 1878 Mesosiderite ($10.00 per gram, all that I have): 40.5g http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa1878/dsc00001.jpg 48.8g http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa1878/dsc00002.jpg 63g http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa1878/dsc00003.jpg 32g #1 http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa1878/dsc00004.jpg 32g #2 http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa1878/dsc00005.jpg NWA 1879 Mesosiderite ($10.00 per gram, all that I have): 186g end cut http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa1879/dsc00001.jpg 63g http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa1879/dsc00002.jpg 60g http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa1879/dsc00003.jpg 52.3g http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa1879/dsc00004.jpg 32g http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa1879/dsc00005.jpg 21g http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa1879/dsc00006.jpg 20.7g #1 http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa1879/dsc00007.jpg 20.7g #2 http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa1879/dsc00008.jpg 19.3g http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa1879/dsc00009.jpg NWA 2932 Mesosiderite ($10.00 per gram unless indicated otherwise): 46.7g (FANTASTIC SLICE with LARGE Metal Nodule!!! $18.00 per gram) http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa2932/dsc00001.jpg 48.4g http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa2932/dsc00002.jpg 40.1g http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa2932/dsc00003.jpg 38.1g http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa2932/dsc00004.jpg 31.2g http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa2932/dsc00005.jpg 26.9g http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa2932/dsc00006.jpg 32g http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa2932/dsc00007.jpg 23.2g http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa2932/dsc00008.jpg 22.3g http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa2932/dsc00009.jpg 26.2g http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa2932/dsc00010.jpg 18.4g http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa2932/dsc00011.jpg 89.7g end cut http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa2932/dsc00012.jpg 102.5g end cut http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa2932/dsc00013.jpg 103.8 end cut http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa2932/dsc00014.jpg Muonionalusta (GREAT PREPARATION! - $1.00 per gram, all that I have prepared): 272g http://www.lunarrock.com/muonionalusta/dsc00001.jpg 263.7g http://www.lunarrock.com/muonionalusta/dsc00002.jpg 266g http://www.lunarrock.com/muonionalusta/dsc00003.jpg 289.5g http://www.lunarrock.com/muonionalusta/dsc00004.jpg 177g http://www.lunarrock.com/muonionalusta/dsc00005.jpg 285g http://www.lunarrock.com/muonionalusta/dsc00006.jpg 246g http://www.lunarrock.com/muonionalusta/dsc00007.jpg 338g http://www.lunarrock.com/muonionalusta/dsc00008.jpg 286g http://www.lunarrock.com/muonionalusta/dsc00009.jpg 318g http://www.lunarrock.com/muonionalusta/dsc00010.jpg 315g http://www.lunarrock.com/muonionalusta/dsc00011.jpg 339.8g http://www.lunarrock.com/muonionalusta/dsc00012.jpg 272g http://www.lunarrock.com/muonionalusta/dsc00013.jpg 262g http://www.lunarrock.com/muonionalusta/dsc00014.jpg 202g http://www.lunarrock.com/muonionalusta/dsc00015.jpg 185g http://www.lunarrock.com/muonionalusta/dsc00016.jpg 183g http://www.lunarrock.com/muonionalusta/dsc00017.jpg 168.5g http://www.lunarrock.com/muonionalusta/dsc00018.jpg 114g http://www.lunarrock.com/muonionalusta/dsc00019.jpg 122g http://www.lunarrock.com/muonionalusta/dsc00020.jpg 102g http://www.lunarrock.com/muonionalusta/dsc00021.jpg 107g http://www.lunarrock.com/muonionalusta/dsc00022.jpg 118.8g http://www.lunarrock.com/muonionalusta/dsc00023.jpg 119g http://www.lunarrock.com/muonionalusta/dsc00024.jpg 130.5g http://www.lunarrock.com/muonionalusta/dsc00025.jpg 117g http://www.lunarrock.com/muonionalusta/dsc00026.jpg 120g #1 http://www.lunarrock.com/muonionalusta/dsc00027.jpg 119g http://www.lunarrock.com/muonionalusta/dsc00028.jpg 120g #2 http://www.lunarrock.com/muonionalusta/dsc00029.jpg 86g http://www.lunarrock.com/muonionalusta/dsc00030.jpg 103g http://www.lunarrock.com/muonionalusta/dsc00031.jpg 83g http://www.lunarrock.com/muonionalusta/dsc00032.jpg 68.5g http://www.lunarrock.com/muonionalusta/dsc00033.jpg 64.5g http://www.lunarrock.com/muonionalusta/dsc00034.jpg 54.8g http://www.lunarrock.com/muonionalusta/dsc00035.jpg 750g end cut http://www.lunarrock.com/muonionalusta/dsc00036.jpg 186g end cut http://www.lunarrock.com/muonionalusta/dsc00037.jpg 76.9g end cut http://www.lunarrock.com/muonionalusta/dsc00038.jpg 65.2g end cut http://www.lunarrock.com/muonionalusta/dsc00039.jpg As with all meteorites, these are difficult to photograph so they look MUCH better in person!!! SHIPPING: I will quote postage on a case-by-case basis, depending on where they are shipped. Thank you looking and/or collecting some of these beauties from me, I appreciate it! Best regards, Greg ==================== Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmhupe at htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 ==================== Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault From cojack at tiscali.it Tue Jul 15 04:18:45 2008 From: cojack at tiscali.it (Francesco Moser) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 10:18:45 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: DaG 670 - Mars Martian Shergottite Meteorite 139mg RARE Message-ID: <000f01c8e653$673acd00$0200a8c0@FISSO> On auction a BIG FRAGMENT of the VERY RARE Dar al Gani 670 Martian Meteorite. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170237664209 I have also some other fragments (smaller or bigger), if interested e-mail me!!! Thanks!!! Ciao <><><><> Francesco Moser http://web.tiscali.it/francesco.moser/ IMCA #1510 www.imca.cc From mikewren at gilanet.com Tue Jul 15 09:11:02 2008 From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 07:11:02 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Auctions Ending With Highlights Added, 20% Off Sale! LAST NOTICE! Message-ID: <200807150713223.SM00660@yourfsyly0jtwn> Hello, I am going camping for a couple of days and so I am giving my highlighted auctions early! I have some nice pieces ending on Weds/16th and I have a sale running in my ebay store.. Thanks and Happy Buying! http://stores.ebay.com/VOYAGE-BOTANICA-NATURAL-HISTORY or these. Very Rare and Beautiful, NWA 801, CR2, 2.09g, nice specimen! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200237007321 Ungrouped Ataxite, DRONINO, Russia, 117.50 g, Full Slice! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200237017311 Very Difficult To Acquire DRESDEN, Canada, H6, SUPER RARE! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200237017314 Rare Georgia Fall of 1829, FORSYTH, L6, RARE, Rare, Rare. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200237692979 Super Rare GEORGETOWN, Australia, 5.18 gram, An amazing opportunity! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200237692980 Super Rare Fall From France, CHATEAU RENARD, Only Piece I have! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200237692987 (NEW) An Amazing LL5, NWA 2380, 44.21 gram, Really A Great Specimen! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200237692993 Superb MONTURAQUI Impactite Individual 7.45g, I collected This Myself! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200237007327 (NEW), NWA 5054, L5, 24.06 gram, Not many specimens left! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200237007332 A Classic, OZONA, Texas, H6 Chondrite, 11.98g, A Good Size Specimen! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200237007346 Most Sought After! BONITA SPRINGS, FL. 0.52g, One of My Last. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200237007352 1 Kilo Lot of Unclassified NWA, 1,000g , Still A Good Deal! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200237007359 A very Rare EL3 From Africa, NWA 2965, 196g, Getting Rarer in Big Specimens. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200237014670 The LAHOMA, Beautiful L5 From Ok. 23.32g Lot, I am down to my last specimens! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200237692973 A Classic, OZONA, Texas, H6 Chondrite, 22.33g, I listed a second piece by accident. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200237692970 Very Rare Achondrite, NWA 2635, 0.85 gram, also down to my last! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200237692999 NORTHBRANCH, Kansas, H5, 7.29 gram, Another Great American Meteorite! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200237693005 H7 Meteorite, Super Rare, NWA 4229, 1.06 gram, Only a few left. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200237693009 A Classic H4 From Texas-DIMMITT, 2.39 gram, nice piece. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200237017303 Rare LL3.5 Chondrite, NWA 2920, 2.22 gram http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200237017299 (NEW), NWA 5054, Wholesale Lot, L5, 514g, A great Deal! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200237007347 Very Rare DHOFAR 007,Cumulate Eucrite, 1.85g http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200237007341 NWA 2621, L4, Really Nice, 8.23 gram, Only a couple of this number to offer. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200237007330 Thanks and Best Wishes Michael Cottingham From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Tue Jul 15 11:34:03 2008 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 08:34:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad: One cent ebay sale tonight, more than 50 meteorites Message-ID: <952713.59162.qm@web33104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Tonight I have more than 50 meteorites ending on ebay, many at one cent still, and most still very cheap. There are some really nice pieces, large complete slices of Brenham and Muonionalusta, Lunar meteorites, spheres, etc. See them all at Paul's link http://www.meteorite.com/farmer/ Most pieces are still at pennies on the dollar right now! See the link above linking all of my auctions from both of my ebay usernames. From wahlperry at aol.com Tue Jul 15 13:19:20 2008 From: wahlperry at aol.com (wahlperry at aol.com) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 13:19:20 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Sale Ad U.S.A's only R Chondrite Blue Eagle Well, NV Message-ID: <8CAB4B60D7D1E2E-B28-C8E@webmail-ne03.sysops.aol.com> Hi all . I have two fragments for sale. #1- .5 gram fragment with partial fusion crust. #2- 1.6 gram fragment . Contact off list for pictures and price per gram. This the only R chondrite found in the U.S.A. Thanks, Sonny www.nevadameteorites.com From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Tue Jul 15 13:21:47 2008 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 13:21:47 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - July 15, 2008 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/July_15_2008.html **************Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com! (http://www.tourtracker.com?NCID=aolmus00050000000112) From meteoriteplaya at gmail.com Tue Jul 15 16:13:38 2008 From: meteoriteplaya at gmail.com (Mike Jensen) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 14:13:38 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - July 15, 2008 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6f9da8300807151313iebc38b5u23ac06c7801993b@mail.gmail.com> Hi all What a very excellent image of an unusual meteorite. Thanks Anne for sending it to Michael to be put up on his fine site. The text below the image mentions structurally and chemically anomalous. The chemical classification has been unofficially changed to IIG. I say unofficial because no paper has been presented to define the group...at least that I am aware of. Other members of the group are Auburn, Bellsbank, Tombigbee River and Twannberg. The good news is Grossmans DB lists it using the IIG classification....so it can probably be considered official. Also its structural classification is just a regular old Hexahedrite with no need for the anomalous descriptor. So it should be listed as an IIG, HEX As a side note we as members of the meteorite community should be checking our listings of classifications before we publish them to this list or any other place on the web. Once an error is published to the internet it is hard to change. We should always use official classifications wherever possible. My recommendation is the Michael as editor of his fine site should always check the classification but obviously it would be best if the submitter did that first....and much easier for an already overworked and underpaid editor. Mike -- Mike Jensen Jensen Meteorites 16730 E Ada PL Aurora, CO 80017-3137 303-337-4361 IMCA 4264 website: www.jensenmeteorites.com On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 11:21 AM, wrote: > http://www.rocksfromspace.org/July_15_2008.html > > > > > **************Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music > scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com! > (http://www.tourtracker.com?NCID=aolmus00050000000112) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Tue Jul 15 16:41:38 2008 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 15 Jul 2008 20:41:38 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] RFS Picture of the Day - July 15, 2008 - IIG Classification Message-ID: Hello Mike and List, Here are the other irons - formerly ungrouped but now classified by Wasson as IIG: Bellsbank - Britstown - Guanaco - La Primitiva - Tombigbee River - Twannberg and: Wu-chu-mu-chin (formerly classified as an ataxite). Best, Bernd From Impactika at aol.com Tue Jul 15 16:53:04 2008 From: Impactika at aol.com (Impactika at aol.com) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 16:53:04 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - July 15, 2008 Message-ID: Sorry people! I was going by the description in the Catalogue of Meteorites. Obviously a little out-dated but still with the most information as to the number of pieces found, when and where. And there it is listed as "Iron, Ungrouped" but with a nickel content of 4.9% so an Hexahedrite. Anyway, it is not a meteorite you see very often, and it is so shiny I had a very hard time getting a good picture. Thank you Michael for publishing it. Enjoy it, I got more coming! Anne M. Black www.IMPACTIKA.com IMPACTIKA at aol.com Vice-President of IMCA www.IMCA.cc In a message dated 7/15/2008 2:14:08 PM Mountain Daylight Time, meteoriteplaya at gmail.com writes: Hi all What a very excellent image of an unusual meteorite. Thanks Anne for sending it to Michael to be put up on his fine site. The text below the image mentions structurally and chemically anomalous. The chemical classification has been unofficially changed to IIG. I say unofficial because no paper has been presented to define the group...at least that I am aware of. Other members of the group are Auburn, Bellsbank, Tombigbee River and Twannberg. The good news is Grossmans DB lists it using the IIG classification....so it can probably be considered official. Also its structural classification is just a regular old Hexahedrite with no need for the anomalous descriptor. So it should be listed as an IIG, HEX -- Mike Jensen Jensen Meteorites 16730 E Ada PL Aurora, CO 80017-3137 303-337-4361 IMCA 4264 website: www.jensenmeteorites.com On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 11:21 AM, wrote: > http://www.rocksfromspace.org/July_15_2008.html **************Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com! (http://www.tourtracker.com?NCID=aolmus00050000000112) From cynapse at charter.net Tue Jul 15 20:21:46 2008 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 20:21:46 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Send the ISS to the moon In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1nfq7451n0dpjk4q3ns73tl3vbl4eqlah6@4ax.com> Sounds good to me. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/11/AR2008071102394.html It's All Decked Out. Give It Somewhere to Go. By Michael Benson Sunday, July 13, 2008; B03 Consider the International Space Station, that marvel of incremental engineering. It has close to 15,000 cubic feet of livable space; 10 modules, or living and working areas; a Canadian robot arm that can repair the station from outside; and the capacity to keep five astronauts (including the occasional wealthy rubbernecking space tourist) in good health for long periods. It has gleaming, underused laboratories; its bathroom is fully repaired; and its exercycle is ready for vigorous mandatory workouts. The only problem with this $156 billion manifestation of human genius -- a project as large as a football field that has been called the single most expensive thing ever built -- is that it's still going nowhere at a very high rate of speed. And as a scientific research platform, it still has virtually no purpose and is accomplishing nothing. I try not to write this cavalierly. But if the station's goal is to conduct yet more research into the effects of zero gravity on human beings, well, there's more than enough of that already salted away in Russian archives, based on the many years of weightlessness that cosmonauts heroically logged in a series of space stations throughout the 1970s, '80s and '90s. By now, ISS crews have also spent serious time in zero gravity. We know exactly what weightlessness does and how to counter some of its atrophying effects. (Cue shot of exercycle.) And if the station's purpose is to act as a "stepping stone" to places beyond -- well, that metaphor, most recently used by NASA Administrator Michael Griffin is pure propaganda. As any student of celestial mechanics can tell you, if you want to go somewhere in space, the best policy is to go directly there and not stop along the way, because stopping is a waste of precious fuel, time and treasure. Which is a pretty good description of the ISS, parked as it is in constant low Earth orbit. This is no doubt why, after the horrifying disintegration of the space shuttle Columbia in 2003, the Bush administration belatedly recognized that, if we're going to spend all that money on manned spaceflight, we should justify the risks by actually sending our astronauts somewhere. So NASA is now developing a new generation of rockets and manned spacecraft. By 2020, the Constellation program is supposed to take astronauts beyond low Earth orbit for the first time since Apollo 17 returned from the moon in 1972. Yes, that'll be almost 50 years. Where will they go? To the moon -- the only place humans have already visited. Which leads us right back to the expensively orbiting ISS. It hasn't a fig-leaf's role left. The moon is the new "stepping stone," with Mars bruited as a next destination. Although NASA officials will never quite say so, their current attitude seems to be that the station is essentially a high-maintenance distraction, even a mistake. Their plan is to finish assembling the thing ASAP and hand the keys over to the Russians, Canadians, Europeans and Japanese, with minimal continuing U.S. involvement. This should happen by the shuttle's mandatory retirement in 2010. Meanwhile, we're still writing a lot of high-denomination checks and preparing the two remaining shuttles for risky flights to finish something we then plan to be largely rid of. This seems absurd. I have an alternative proposal: Send the ISS somewhere. The ISS, you see, is already an interplanetary spacecraft -- at least potentially. It's missing a drive system and a steerage module, but those are technicalities. Although it's ungainly in appearance, it's designed to be boosted periodically to a higher altitude by a shuttle, a Russian Soyuz or one of the upcoming new Constellation program Orion spacecraft. It could fairly easily be retrofitted for operations beyond low-Earth orbit. In principle, we could fly it almost anywhere within the inner solar system -- to any place where it could still receive enough solar power to keep all its systems running. It's easy to predict what skeptics both inside and outside NASA will say to this idea. They'll point out that the new Constellation program is already supposed to have at least the beginnings of interplanetary ability. They'll say that the ISS needs to be resupplied too frequently for long missions. They'll worry about the amount of propellant needed to push the ISS's 1,040,000 pounds anywhere -- not to mention bringing them all back. There are good answers to all these objections. We'll still need the new Constellation Ares boosters and Orion capsules -- fortuitously, they can easily be adapted to a scenario in which the ISS becomes the living- area and lab core of an interplanetary spacecraft. The Ares V heavy-lift booster could easily send aloft the additional supplies and storage and drive modules necessary to make the ISS truly deep-space-worthy. The Orion crew exploration module is designed to be ISS-compatible. It could serve as a guidance system and also use its own rocket engine to help boost and orient the interplanetary ISS. After remaining dormant for much of the one-year journey to, say, Mars, it could then be available to conduct independent operations while the ISS core orbited the Red Planet, or to investigate an asteroid near Earth, for instance. But, the skeptics will say, the new Orion capsule's engines wouldn't be nearly enough; a spacecraft as large as the ISS would need its own drive system. Here, too, we're in surprisingly good shape. The ISS is already in space; the amount of thrust it needs to go farther is a lot less than you might think. Moreover, a drive system doesn't have to be based on chemical rockets. Over the past two decades, both the U.S. and Japanese programs have conducted highly successful tests in space of ion-drive systems. Unlike the necessarily impatient rockets we use to escape Earth's gravity and reach orbit, these long-duration, low-thrust engines produce the kind of methodical acceleration (and deceleration) appropriate for travel once a spacecraft is already floating in zero gravity. They would be a perfect way to send the ISS on its way and bring it back to Earth again. This leaves a lander. A lunar lander substantially larger than the spidery Apollo-era LEMs is currently on the drawing board. It's not nearly as far along in development as the Ares booster and Orion spacecraft components of the Constellation program -- which is a good thing. While I question the need to return to the moon in the first place, I wouldn't exclude it as a possible destination, so I think we should modify the lander's design to make it capable of touching down on either the moon or Mars and then returning to the ISS with samples for study in its laboratories. Such landers could also investigate the moon's poles, where we think water may be present, or one of the near-Earth asteroids -- which may have raw materials suitable for use by future generations of space explorers. But, our skeptics will sputter, this will all cost far more money than the Constellation program. Who'll pay for it? Actually, it will in effect save all the money we've already spent on the ISS. And the station is already an international project, with substantial financial and technological input from the Russians, Canadians, Europeans and Japanese. In recent years, the Chinese, who have developed their own human spaceflight capabilities, have made repeated overtures to NASA, hoping to be let in on the ISS project. They've been unceremoniously rebuffed by the Bush administration, but a new administration may be more welcoming. An interplanetary ISS -- the acronym now standing for International Space Ship -- would be a truly international endeavor, with expenses shared among all participating nations. How likely is any of this to happen? Not very. A lot depends on the flexibility of a NASA that hasn't always been particularly welcoming to outside ideas. On the other hand, the agency also collaborates with outsiders all the time. So it's not impossible. The reason the ISS went from being a purely American, Reagan-era project ("Space Station Freedom") to one including the Russians and many other nations was a political decision by the Clinton administration. A similar political vision will be necessary here. All the billions already spent on the space station would pay off -- spectacularly -- if this product of human ingenuity actually went somewhere and did something. But it would also serve as a compelling demonstration that we're one species, living on one planet, and that we're as capable of cooperating peacefully as we are at competing militaristically. Let's begin the process of turning the ISS from an Earth-orbiting caterpillar into an interplanetary butterfly. michael.benson at pristop.si Michael Benson, the author of "Beyond: Visions of the Interplanetary Probes," writes frequently on space science issues. From cynapse at charter.net Tue Jul 15 20:23:58 2008 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 20:23:58 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Tunguska Catastrophe: Evidence Of Acid Rain Supports Meteorite Theory In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/07/080715103956.htm Tunguska Catastrophe: Evidence Of Acid Rain Supports Meteorite Theory ScienceDaily (July 15, 2008) ? The Tunguska catastrophe in 1908 evidently led to high levels of acid rain. This is the conclusion reached by Russian, Italian and German researchers based on the results of analyses of peat profiles taken from the disaster region. In peat samples corresponded to 1908 permafrost boundary they found significantly higher levels of the heavy nitrogen and carbon isotopes 15N and 13C. The highest accumulation levels were measured in the areas at the epicentre of the explosion and along the trajectory of the cosmic body. Increased concentrations of iridium and nitrogen in the relevant peat layers support the theory that the isotope effects discovered are a consequence of the Tunguska catastrophe and are partly of cosmic origin. It is estimated that around 200,000 tons of nitrogen rained down on the Tunguska region in Siberia at that time. "Extremely high temperatures occurred as the meteorite entered the atmosphere, during which the oxygen in the atmosphere reacted with nitrogen causing a build up of nitrogen oxides," Natalia Kolesnikova told the Russian news agency RIA Novosti on last Monday. Mrs. Kolesnolova is one of the authors of a study by Lomonosov Moscow State University, the University of Bologna and the Helmholtz Centre for Environmental Research (UFZ), which was published in the journal Icarus in 2003. The Tunguska event is regarded as one of the biggest natural disasters of modern times. On 30 June 1908 one or more explosions took place in the area close to the Tunguska River north of Lake Baikal. The explosion(s) flattened around 80 million trees over an area of more than 2000 square kilometres. The strength of the explosion is estimated to have been equivalent to between five and 30 megatons of TNT. That is more than a thousand times as powerful as the Hiroshima bomb. This almost unpopulated region of Siberia was first studied in 1927 by Professor Leonid A. Kulik. There are a number of different theories about what caused the catastrophe. However, the majority of scientists assume that it was caused by a cosmic event, such as the impact of a meteorite, asteroid or comet. If it had exploded in the atmosphere just under five hours later, St. Petersburg, which was the capital of Russia at that time, would have been completely destroyed because of the Earth?s rotation. In two expeditions in 1998 and 1999, Russian and Italian researchers took peat profiles from various locations within the Siberian disaster area. The type of moss studied, Sphagnum fuscum, is very common in the peat material and obtains its mineral nutrients exclusively from atmospheric aerosols, which means that it can store terrestrial and extraterrestrial dust. Afterwards, the samples were analysed in laboratories at the University of Bologna and the Helmholtz Centre for Environmental Research (UFZ) in Halle/Saale. Among other things, the UFZ specialises in isotope analyses of sediments, plants, soil and water and it was asked to help by the team of Moscow researchers led by Dr Evgeniy M. Kolesnikov. Kolesnikov, who has been investigating the Tunguska event for 20 years, has been to Leipzig University and UFZ twice as a guest researcher with the help of the German Research Foundation (DFG) to consult with the isotope experts. "The levels of accumulation of the heavy carbon isotope 13C measured right on the 1908 permafrost boundary in several peat profiles from the disaster area cannot be explained by any terrestrial process. This suggests that the Tunguska catastrophe had a cosmic explanation and that we have found evidence of this material," explains Dr Tatjana B?ttger of the UFZ. Possible causes would be a C-type asteroid like 253 Mathilde, or a comet like Borelly. From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Tue Jul 15 20:51:27 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 17:51:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander Extending Trench Message-ID: <200807160051.RAA26545@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2008-131 NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander Extending Trench Jet Propulsion Laboratory July 14, 2008 TUCSON, Ariz. -- NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander is using its Robotic Arm to enlarge an exposure of hard subsurface material expected to yield a sample of ice-rich soil for analysis in one of the lander's ovens. The trench was about 20 by 30 centimeters (8 by 12 inches) after work by the arm on Saturday. The team sent commands today to extend the longer dimension by about 15 centimeters (6 inches). Experiments with a near-duplicate of the lander in Tucson during the past week indicate that the bigger surface is needed to allow steps planned for collecting an icy sample from the Martian trench informally named "Snow White." "Right now, there is not enough real estate of dark icy soil in the trench to do a sample acquisition test and later a full-up acquisition" for the Thermal and Evolved-Gas Analyzer, said Ray Arvidson, Phoenix's "dig czar," from Washington University in St. Louis. The arm's rasp will kick the icy soil into the scoop through a special capture mechanism, and scientists also want to scoop up any loose material left in the trench from the rasping activity, Arvidson said. Samples of shallower, non-icy soil from the Snow White trench have already been examined in Phoenix's wet chemistry laboratory and optical microscope, and a fork-like probe has checked how well nearby soil conducts electricity and heat. "The Phoenix science team is working diligently to analyze the results of the tests from these various instruments," said Phoenix principal investigator Peter Smith. "The preliminary signatures we are seeing are intriguing. Before we release results, we want to verify that our interpretations are correct by conducting laboratory tests." As the Robotic Arm was extracting the fork-like conductivity probe from the soil on Saturday, the arm contacted a rock called "Alice," near the "Snow White" trenching area. The arm is programmed to stop activity when it encounters an obstacle. The team assessed the arm's status on Sunday and decided to resume use of the arm on Monday. Today's commands call for the Robotic Arm to move away from the rock, dump out soil that is in the scoop and extend the Snow White trench approximately 15 centimeters (6 inches) toward the lander. The Phoenix mission is led by Smith of the University of Arizona with project management at JPL and development partnership at Lockheed Martin, Denver. International contributions come from the Canadian Space Agency; the University of Neuchatel; the universities of Copenhagen and Aarhus, Denmark; Max Planck Institute, Germany; and the Finnish Meteorological Institute. For more about Phoenix, visit: http://www.nasa.gov/phoenix and http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Media contacts: Guy Webster 818-354-6278 Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. guy.webster at jpl.nasa.gov Dwayne Brown 202-358-1726 NASA Headquarters, Washington dwayne.c.brown at nasa.gov Sara Hammond 520-626-1974 University of Arizona, Tucson shammond at lpl.arizona.edu 2008-131 From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Tue Jul 15 20:53:49 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 17:53:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander to Begin Rasping Frozen Layer Message-ID: <200807160053.RAA27708@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2008-133 NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander to Begin Rasping Frozen Layer Jet Propulsion Laboratory July 15, 2008 TUCSON, Ariz. -- A powered rasp on the back of the robotic arm scoop of NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander is being tested for the first time on Mars in gathering sample shavings of ice. The lander has used its arm in recent days to clear away loose soil from a subsurface layer of hard-frozen material and create a large enough area to use the motorized rasp in a trench informally named "Snow White." The Phoenix team prepared commands early Tuesday for beginning a series of tests with the rasp later in the day. Engineers and scientists designed the tests to lead up to, in coming days, delivering a sample of icy soil into one of the lander's laboratory ovens. "While Phoenix was in development, we added the rasp to the robotic arm design specifically to grind into very hard surface ice," said Barry Goldstein, Phoenix project manager at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. "This is the exactly the situation we find we are facing on Mars, so we believe we have the right tool for the job. Honeybee Robotics in New York City did a heroic job of designing and delivering the rasp on a very short schedule." The rasp bit extends at a shallow angle out of an opening on the back of the scoop at the end of the 2.35-meter-long (7.7-foot-long) robotic arm. To use it, the back surface of the scoop is placed on the ground, and a motor rotates the rasp. The angle of the rasp is increased from nearly horizontal to slightly steeper while it is rotating, so the tool kicks shavings sideways onto a collection surface just inside the opening. After the rasp stops, a series of moves by the scoop then shifts the collected shavings from the back of the scoop, past baffles, to the front of the scoop. The baffles serve to keep material from falling out of the rasp opening when the scoop is used as a front loader. The commands prepared for Phoenix's activities Tuesday called for rasping into the hard material at the bottom of the Snow White trench at two points about one centimeter (0.4 inch) apart. The lander's Surface Stereo Imager and robotic arm camera will be used to check the process at several steps and to monitor any resulting sample in the scoop for several hours after it is collected. Collecting an icy sample for an oven of Phoenix's Thermal and Evolved-Gas Analyzer (TEGA) may involve gathering shavings collected at the rasp opening and scooping up additional shavings produced by the rasp. The Phoenix team has been testing this combination on simulated Martian ice with a near-replica model of Phoenix in a test facility at the University of Arizona, Tucson. The Phoenix mission is led by Peter Smith of the University of Arizona with project management at JPL and development partnership at Lockheed Martin, Denver. International contributions come from the Canadian Space Agency; the University of Neuchatel; the universities of Copenhagen and Aarhus, Denmark; Max Planck Institute, Germany; and the Finnish Meteorological Institute. For more about Phoenix, visit: http://www.nasa.gov/phoenix and http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Media contacts: Guy Webster 818-354-6278 Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. guy.webster at jpl.nasa.gov Dwayne Brown 202-358-1726 NASA Headquarters, Washington dwayne.c.brown at nasa.gov Sara Hammond 520-626-1974 University of Arizona, Tucson shammond at lpl.arizona.edu 2008-133 From fuzzfoot at comcast.net Tue Jul 15 21:32:56 2008 From: fuzzfoot at comcast.net (Mike Bandli) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 01:32:56 +0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] Send the ISS to the moon Message-ID: <071620080132.4783.487D4FC80000CE97000012AF22070210539B01010096969A00@comcast.net> The idea of re-using space hardware is great one and has been done before. Unfortunately the ISS cannot simply be ferried out of earth orbit. This would require a massive propulsion retrofit to slingshot it to the moon or elsewhere. Even then, the ISS could not handle the structural stress of such a task. It was designed to be a stationary satellite and cannot 'fly' without massive structural reinforcements. Perhaps we can re-use some of the modules instead of the entire structure. Build a vehicle that can support the modules and travel to the moon and beyond. Shouldn't everything be modular anyway? That was the beauty of the ISS... For now, I say let Lance Bass pay his 10 Million to float some cheesy pop records in space. Best, Mike Bandli -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: Darren Garrison > Sounds good to me. > > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/11/AR2008071102394. > html > > It's All Decked Out. Give It Somewhere to Go. > > By Michael Benson > Sunday, July 13, 2008; B03 > > > > Consider the International Space Station, that marvel of incremental > engineering. It has close to 15,000 cubic feet of livable space; 10 modules, or > living and working areas; a Canadian robot arm that can repair the station from > outside; and the capacity to keep five astronauts (including the occasional > wealthy rubbernecking space tourist) in good health for long periods. It has > gleaming, underused laboratories; its bathroom is fully repaired; and its > exercycle is ready for vigorous mandatory workouts. > > The only problem with this $156 billion manifestation of human genius -- a > project as large as a football field that has been called the single most > expensive thing ever built -- is that it's still going nowhere at a very high > rate of speed. And as a scientific research platform, it still has virtually no > purpose and is accomplishing nothing. > > I try not to write this cavalierly. But if the station's goal is to conduct yet > more research into the effects of zero gravity on human beings, well, there's > more than enough of that already salted away in Russian archives, based on the > many years of weightlessness that cosmonauts heroically logged in a series of > space stations throughout the 1970s, '80s and '90s. By now, ISS crews have also > spent serious time in zero gravity. We know exactly what weightlessness does and > how to counter some of its atrophying effects. (Cue shot of exercycle.) > > And if the station's purpose is to act as a "stepping stone" to places beyond -- > well, that metaphor, most recently used by NASA Administrator Michael Griffin is > pure propaganda. As any student of celestial mechanics can tell you, if you want > to go somewhere in space, the best policy is to go directly there and not stop > along the way, because stopping is a waste of precious fuel, time and treasure. > Which is a pretty good description of the ISS, parked as it is in constant low > Earth orbit. > > This is no doubt why, after the horrifying disintegration of the space shuttle > Columbia in 2003, the Bush administration belatedly recognized that, if we're > going to spend all that money on manned spaceflight, we should justify the risks > by actually sending our astronauts somewhere. So NASA is now developing a new > generation of rockets and manned spacecraft. By 2020, the Constellation program > is supposed to take astronauts beyond low Earth orbit for the first time since > Apollo 17 returned from the moon in 1972. Yes, that'll be almost 50 years. Where > will they go? To the moon -- the only place humans have already visited. > > Which leads us right back to the expensively orbiting ISS. It hasn't a > fig-leaf's role left. The moon is the new "stepping stone," with Mars bruited as > a next destination. Although NASA officials will never quite say so, their > current attitude seems to be that the station is essentially a high-maintenance > distraction, even a mistake. Their plan is to finish assembling the thing ASAP > and hand the keys over to the Russians, Canadians, Europeans and Japanese, with > minimal continuing U.S. involvement. This should happen by the shuttle's > mandatory retirement in 2010. Meanwhile, we're still writing a lot of > high-denomination checks and preparing the two remaining shuttles for risky > flights to finish something we then plan to be largely rid of. This seems > absurd. I have an alternative proposal: > > Send the ISS somewhere. > > The ISS, you see, is already an interplanetary spacecraft -- at least > potentially. It's missing a drive system and a steerage module, but those are > technicalities. Although it's ungainly in appearance, it's designed to be > boosted periodically to a higher altitude by a shuttle, a Russian Soyuz or one > of the upcoming new Constellation program Orion spacecraft. It could fairly > easily be retrofitted for operations beyond low-Earth orbit. In principle, we > could fly it almost anywhere within the inner solar system -- to any place where > it could still receive enough solar power to keep all its systems running. > > It's easy to predict what skeptics both inside and outside NASA will say to this > idea. They'll point out that the new Constellation program is already supposed > to have at least the beginnings of interplanetary ability. They'll say that the > ISS needs to be resupplied too frequently for long missions. They'll worry about > the amount of propellant needed to push the ISS's 1,040,000 pounds anywhere -- > not to mention bringing them all back. > > There are good answers to all these objections. We'll still need the new > Constellation Ares boosters and Orion capsules -- fortuitously, they can easily > be adapted to a scenario in which the ISS becomes the living- area and lab core > of an interplanetary spacecraft. The Ares V heavy-lift booster could easily send > aloft the additional supplies and storage and drive modules necessary to make > the ISS truly deep-space-worthy. > > The Orion crew exploration module is designed to be ISS-compatible. It could > serve as a guidance system and also use its own rocket engine to help boost and > orient the interplanetary ISS. After remaining dormant for much of the one-year > journey to, say, Mars, it could then be available to conduct independent > operations while the ISS core orbited the Red Planet, or to investigate an > asteroid near Earth, for instance. > > But, the skeptics will say, the new Orion capsule's engines wouldn't be nearly > enough; a spacecraft as large as the ISS would need its own drive system. Here, > too, we're in surprisingly good shape. The ISS is already in space; the amount > of thrust it needs to go farther is a lot less than you might think. Moreover, a > drive system doesn't have to be based on chemical rockets. Over the past two > decades, both the U.S. and Japanese programs have conducted highly successful > tests in space of ion-drive systems. Unlike the necessarily impatient rockets we > use to escape Earth's gravity and reach orbit, these long-duration, low-thrust > engines produce the kind of methodical acceleration (and deceleration) > appropriate for travel once a spacecraft is already floating in zero gravity. > They would be a perfect way to send the ISS on its way and bring it back to > Earth again. > > This leaves a lander. A lunar lander substantially larger than the spidery > Apollo-era LEMs is currently on the drawing board. It's not nearly as far along > in development as the Ares booster and Orion spacecraft components of the > Constellation program -- which is a good thing. While I question the need to > return to the moon in the first place, I wouldn't exclude it as a possible > destination, so I think we should modify the lander's design to make it capable > of touching down on either the moon or Mars and then returning to the ISS with > samples for study in its laboratories. Such landers could also investigate the > moon's poles, where we think water may be present, or one of the near-Earth > asteroids -- which may have raw materials suitable for use by future generations > of space explorers. > > But, our skeptics will sputter, this will all cost far more money than the > Constellation program. Who'll pay for it? > > Actually, it will in effect save all the money we've already spent on the ISS. > And the station is already an international project, with substantial financial > and technological input from the Russians, Canadians, Europeans and Japanese. In > recent years, the Chinese, who have developed their own human spaceflight > capabilities, have made repeated overtures to NASA, hoping to be let in on the > ISS project. They've been unceremoniously rebuffed by the Bush administration, > but a new administration may be more welcoming. An interplanetary ISS -- the > acronym now standing for International Space Ship -- would be a truly > international endeavor, with expenses shared among all participating nations. > > How likely is any of this to happen? Not very. A lot depends on the flexibility > of a NASA that hasn't always been particularly welcoming to outside ideas. On > the other hand, the agency also collaborates with outsiders all the time. So > it's not impossible. The reason the ISS went from being a purely American, > Reagan-era project ("Space Station Freedom") to one including the Russians and > many other nations was a political decision by the Clinton administration. A > similar political vision will be necessary here. > > All the billions already spent on the space station would pay off -- > spectacularly -- if this product of human ingenuity actually went somewhere and > did something. But it would also serve as a compelling demonstration that we're > one species, living on one planet, and that we're as capable of cooperating > peacefully as we are at competing militaristically. Let's begin the process of > turning the ISS from an Earth-orbiting caterpillar into an interplanetary > butterfly. > > michael.benson at pristop.si > > > Michael Benson, the author of "Beyond: Visions of the Interplanetary Probes," > writes frequently on space science issues. > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Tue Jul 15 21:52:26 2008 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 18:52:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Last minute ebay sale right now, VERY cheap! Message-ID: <109372.8218.qm@web33108.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Jeeze, if everyone on vacation? things have been selling for nothing, and the best things are soon to end, most at bargain basement prices. It looks like I am going to have to suspend the one cent start sales at this rate. http://www.meteorite.com/farmer/ See the link above linking all of my auctions from both of my ebay usernames. From edeckert at triad.rr.com Tue Jul 15 22:37:11 2008 From: edeckert at triad.rr.com (Ed Deckert) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 22:37:11 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Rust Preventer Question Message-ID: <00b601c8e6ec$d95d4d60$6401a8c0@EdDeckertMain> Hello Everyone, I was in my local Lowe's Home Improvement Store and noticed something in the tools department. It could have use in meteorite storage. The product is a non-skid Polyvinyl Chloride foam mesh shelf lining material that is apparently impregnated with corrosion inhibitor (Zerust.) Now as I recall in a prior Met List thread, Chlorine is a problem with irons and rusting. But if I recall correctly, it has to make contact with the iron to be harmful. The discussion was, I believe, around using the color coded desiccant crystals that change from pink to blue when saturated with moisture. Is it Cobalt Chloride that is used there as the indicator chemical? I seem to think that would be the case from the chemistry class I took in school. In any event, can someone shed some light on this? This product can be cut into sizes to fit your needs, and seems quite reasonably priced. A roll measuring 22.5 inches by 118 inches (about 18.4 square feet) is $14.98 US Dollars. That would make very many squares to put in specimen boxes! It appears to be a mesh with about a 0.062 inch thickness or so. Hard to tell looking at the roll in the store. Here are some links, one to Lowe's and the other to the manufacturer's website for Zerust. Comments please? Thanks, Ed Lowe's Link http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=90013-46478-91140&lpage=none Zerust Link for Zerust Data http://www.zerust.com/product/ict-non-slip-liner.html ------------------------------------------- Ed Deckert IMCA #8911 http://imca.cc/ From bobl at peaktopeak.com Wed Jul 16 00:06:04 2008 From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 22:06:04 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Denver Mineral Show In-Reply-To: <20080712220240.2149E10551@mailwash5.pair.com> Message-ID: <20080716040610.5D0C21058E@mailwash5.pair.com> I'll be there! Bob L. -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Mike Bandli Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 4:03 PM To: 'Meteorite Mailing List' Subject: [meteorite-list] Denver Mineral Show I?m curious to know who will be attending the Denver show this September. Can we get a show of hands (both meteorite dealers and attendees)? Thanks, ? Mike Bandli www.Astro-Artifacts.com IMCA #5765 ? ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From p.marmet at sunrise.ch Wed Jul 16 05:11:23 2008 From: p.marmet at sunrise.ch (Peter Marmet) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 11:11:23 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Meteorite Sale Page Update Message-ID: <17B1E230-C3E6-49D8-9280-304E8D7FFCAC@sunrise.ch> Hello All, I just updated my Meteorite Sale Page: http://www.marmet-meteorites.com/id26.html http://www.marmet-meteorites.com/id25.html ...and added two new pages: "Chondrites for sale" : http://www.marmet-meteorites.com/id1.html and "Achondrites for sale" : http://www.marmet-meteorites.com/ id41.html I will add more items soon - so please: stay tuned! :-) Thank you! Peter Peter Marmet Bern, Switzerland IMCA #2747 p.marmet at mysunrise.ch http://www.marmet-meteorites.com/ From cynapse at charter.net Wed Jul 16 11:04:24 2008 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 11:04:24 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Earth must face up to threat from asteroids, expert warns In-Reply-To: <002901c8e614$6fea0040$8eb6fea9@Gregor> References: <002901c8e614$6fea0040$8eb6fea9@Gregor> Message-ID: http://www.canada.com/topics/technology/story.html?id=4ab86dec-6bca-4ff2-a46e-10ffa916fb92 Earth must face up to threat from asteroids, expert warns Former astronaut calls for international effort to identify possible danger Max Harrold , Canwest News Service Published: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 MONTREAL -- So, a big nasty rock is heading for Earth. Who you gonna call? Nineteen regions or countries, including Canada, have space programs, but -- Hollywood epics notwithstanding -- there is no cooperative process for deflecting a killer asteroid. The math means humans sooner or later will have to take a shot at bumping an asteroid off-course before knowing for sure whether it will hit us. We could nudge it with a small explosion or tow it so it misses the planet. A nuclear explosion would be a last resort, and might actually cause more, smaller problems by blowing it into bits. With new telescopes, including one to be launched by Canada in 2010, expected to increase asteroid detection by 100 times in the next 10 to 15 years, paranoia is likely to soar to new heights. The actual risk of an impact won't increase, but many more of us will be asking, "Do we duck or do we take action?" former astronaut Rusty Schweickart told a conference of 2,000 of the world's top space scientists in Montreal Monday. About 3,000 asteroids are known to be capable of destroying a major city on impact. That number will soon leap to 300,000, he said. Between five and 10 of those will require a concerted decision on deflection by 2020, Schweickart predicted. The coming asteroid awareness boom could bring on "a reign of crying wolf," he added, since the data probably will be interpreted by crackpots and experts alike. "If only one in 10,000 is a real threat, then 9,999 aren't threats," he said. "We need to avoid misinformation. "We can't have the Italians or the Venezuelans issuing warnings only to have the United States saying that's a bad interpretation." Speaking to the 37th International Scientific Assembly, gathered in Montreal for a week-long meeting, Schweickart said the United Nations is the best organization to ensure a level playing field to deal with the mounting awareness of potential cataclysms. Canada will play a leading role in the asteroid awareness boom when it launches the Near Earth Object Surveillance Satellite in 2010. The $12-million, suitcase-size NEOSSat will be the world's first space telescope devoted to tracking threatening space rocks. The 72-year-old Schweickart, who founded the Association of Space Explorers, a 300-member group of former astronauts from 32 countries, said existing technology would have to be 99 per cent effective to divert an asteroid off its doomsday path. Schweickart, who flew on the Apollo 9 mission to low Earth orbit in 1969, emphasized to about 150 scientists that packed a room for his speech that he was not calling for another layer of bureaucracy or much more additional spending. All that is required is better networking and an authoritative body to sort through potential threats, he said. "We need to have a process in place now that will decide the criteria" for what is the quickest, cheapest and safest way to shove off an asteroid, he said. At the conference, which runs through Sunday, scientists will discuss a range of topics, from the Earth's changing environment to how solar flares affect the price of wheat, to the likelihood of other habitable planets. ? The Vancouver Sun 2008 From cynapse at charter.net Wed Jul 16 11:05:33 2008 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 11:05:33 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ancient Comet Wipes Out Earliest American Settlers In-Reply-To: <002901c8e614$6fea0040$8eb6fea9@Gregor> References: <002901c8e614$6fea0040$8eb6fea9@Gregor> Message-ID: http://www.thespoof.com/news/spoof.cfm?headline=s5i38231 In their latest findings, researchers Richard Bridgestone and Allen East say that they have found compelling evidence of a Native American culture predating the Clovis people, who were long thought to be North America's first colonists. The evidence stems from their earlier research into a comet believed to have struck the Earth over Canada some 13,000 years ago. Recent discoveries of gold, silver, and diamonds as far south as Ohio and Indiana that were found to have been of Canadian origin are, Bridgestone and East suggest, likely debris ejected by a comet of up to 3 kilometers (1.86 miles) in diameter that exploded over the Canadian wilderness with the force of thousands of nuclear bombs, bringing the Ice Age to an end. "It was like boom! Boom! Badda-boom-boom-boom! Boom!" Bridgestone was quoted saying recently, flailing his hands theatrically. But calculations soon proved it unlikely that such a concentration of gold, silver, and diamonds as would be necessary for the traces found throughout the northern United States was unlikely to have occurred naturally. Bridgestone and East now suggest that the precious metals and gemstones were gathered by a thriving, previously unknown Native American cultural group that venerated them. "We call them the Basal Laurentide Indigenous Native Group, or BLING, for short," Bridgestone said. "We believe that they mined gold, silver, diamonds, you name it from all around the continent, and wore it as rings, bracelets, and necklaces, in piercings- possibly even used gold for false teeth. So much gold that they must have been weighed down by it. The reasons the BLING culture did this are unclear, but they may have included religious symbolism, signals of cultural status, and attempts to obtain the most and best sexual partners." "What we do know," Bridgestone continued- "is that when the comet struck, it hit the heart of BLING territory- and that the gold, diamonds and silver that were spread for a radius of hundreds to thousands of miles amidst the meteorite dust is all that was left of the unfortunate Blings after their organic remains were instantly incinerated." As to the age and origin of the BLING culture, Bridgestone and East are less confident- though East suggests an African origin. "After all," said East, "look at all those big honking elephants that used to run all over the US! And lions! Can you imagine seeing a freaking lion in your yard ?" he trailed off, with a distant look in his eyes. From info at mcomemeteorite.it Wed Jul 16 13:01:43 2008 From: info at mcomemeteorite.it (M come Meteorite Meteorites) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 19:01:43 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Field Guide to Meteors and Meteorites Message-ID: <487e2977.159.2ec0.780995521@webmaildh5.aruba.it> I have just received a copy of the new R.Norton book but in the Minerals in Meteorites at pag.239 the list of the minerals is not updated, many minerals is not present, here a example: Akimotoite Allabogdanite Andreyivanovite Chukanovite Cronusite Dmitryivanovite Droninoite Ferromerrillite Florenskyite Galileiite Grossite Heideite Hexamolybdenum Keilite Lawrencite Nierite Melliniite Rudashevskyite Sch?llhornite Seifertite Taenite Tuite Unnamed IMA 2006-006 Unnamed IMA 2007-027 Unnamed IMA 2007-033 Wadsleyite is good update the list in the II stamp of the book Matteo From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Wed Jul 16 13:39:53 2008 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 13:39:53 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - July 16, 2008 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/July_16_2008.html **************Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com! (http://www.tourtracker.com?NCID=aolmus00050000000112) From alex.seidel at gmx.net Wed Jul 16 15:18:45 2008 From: alex.seidel at gmx.net (Alexander Seidel) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 21:18:45 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] =?iso-8859-1?q?R=2E_O=2E_Norton=B4s_new_book?= Message-ID: <20080716191845.23970@gmx.net> Hello all, I wonder why on Earth everyone is so quiet about Richard O. Norton?s new wonderful book on this list: --->> "Field Guide to Meteors and Meteorites" (Patrick Moore?s Practical Astronomy Series) US Amazon offers it for only US$ 26.37 at the moment, have a look: http://www.amazon.com/Meteors-Meteorites-Patrick-Practical-Astronomy/dp/1848001568/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1216234990&sr=8-1 German Amazon said "still not available" a few days ago, while offering it much more (!) expensive on it?s website at the same instant. You may order it via your local bookshop here in Europe, but then again it will be much more expensive than US Amazon offers it right now. And it works! I just had my two copies in the mail today. With 11 days delivery time from US to Europe via the "expedited international shipping" option, and no customs tax in my case, this is a very good deal for a book order from the United States. And the price (see above) is almost unbeatable! So folks, what are you waiting for? :-) Alex Berlin/Germany From eric at meteoritewatch.com Wed Jul 16 16:10:34 2008 From: eric at meteoritewatch.com (Eric Wichman) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 13:10:34 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: MeteoriteWatch.com & Meteorite Contest Back On! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <487E55BA.6080704@meteoritewatch.com> Hi Guys and Gals... For those of you who are member of my forum you've probably already received an email notifying you of the changes to the MeteoriteWatch.com site. I've decided to concentrate on the forum rather than all the news and information that I've been posting over the last 10 months or so. It's just way too much to build and maintain 3 meteorite related websites including a forum so I've combined everything into 1 forum to simplify matters and make my life a bit easier as well as provide a more user friendly environment for members. Now when you type in www.meteoritewatch.com the home page and main part of the site is the forum. No more clicking around to find the forum and no more complicated menus to navigate. Everyone on-list here knows how to use a forum so this is what I decided to go with for ease of use. I think I complicated things before by trying to be a central hub for meteorite hunting related info, so this will hopefully get things going again and interest more users. In addition I've restarted my meteorite giveaway/contests I know you've missed so much. To start this off right I'm offering a beautiful 105.5 gram Canyon Diablo meteorite as the first giveaway promotion. LINK: http://www.meteoritewatch.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=47 Here you go! This meteorite is yours IF. You post the most posts of good solid meteorite related information. RULES: Content Must Be Meteorite Related No Duplicate Posts (SPAM) Photos OK Videos OK Links OK Articles OK Topics OK Questions OK I will choose the winner on July 31st. The person who posts the most relevant content WINS! Simple as that. So what are you waiting for Go post! GOOD LUCK EVERYONE! Eric MW From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Wed Jul 16 16:41:49 2008 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 22:41:49 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] well, that's something! Message-ID: <012e01c8e784$5f6baa90$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> http://www.huggaplanet.com/hugmar.html I guess, I need such a Mars. But if the other children in the kindergarten still want to play with yours, if you give them such strange toys ? Martin From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Wed Jul 16 16:57:56 2008 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 16 Jul 2008 20:57:56 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] well, that's something! Message-ID: http://www.huggaplanet.com/hugmar.html A craving Martin writes: "I guess, I need such a Mars" Love hurts, love scars, love wounds and *mars*:-)) (a song by the Everly Brothers) Bernd From Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr Wed Jul 16 17:24:57 2008 From: Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr (Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 23:24:57 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] =?iso-8859-1?q?R=2E_O=2E_Norton=B4s_new_book?= In-Reply-To: <20080716191845.23970@gmx.net> References: <20080716191845.23970@gmx.net> Message-ID: <20080716232457.ps0vxu8n34000k8o@w3mail.univ-mulhouse.fr> Hi Alex, all, Believe me or not, my copy arrived right today. Thanks to John Kashuba who forwarded me his extra copy (it took 3 days (!) to get it here in Belgium from California!). I just started browsing through and was instantaneously quenched by the titles, pics, then text. I could not stop my reading until right now (late night, before checking the letest list news). Folks, this book is unbelievable as it contains ALL related to our beloved meteorites (theory, fall and find anecdotes, hunting, recognizing, collecting, preserving, experimanting, all kinds of practical tips...much, much more). It is written in a so simple style with clear words so that it is just impossible not to understand all the fundamentals and practice concerning meteorites, that you possibly missed in other treatises. After this first "jumping through", I'll now read it again in a row tomorrow at dawn. I'll send more specific feelings on its contents to Larry and I bet they will cross-cut most of your own elogious remarks. My message to all the European (and other) listees: hurry up to follow Alex's advices and try the links he suggested. Never worry about the price, even with a (predicted?) increase, the book is far more than worth it. Be happy, Zelimir Alexander Seidel a ??crit? : > Hello all, > > I wonder why on Earth everyone is so quiet about Richard O. Norton?s > new wonderful book on this list: > > --->> "Field Guide to Meteors and Meteorites" (Patrick Moore?s > Practical Astronomy Series) > > US Amazon offers it for only US$ 26.37 at the moment, have a look: > > http://www.amazon.com/Meteors-Meteorites-Patrick-Practical-Astronomy/dp/1848001568/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1216234990&sr=8-1 > > > > German Amazon said "still not available" a few days ago, while > offering it much more (!) expensive on it?s website at the same > instant. You may order it via your local bookshop here in Europe, > but then again it will be much more expensive than US Amazon offers > it right now. > > And it works! I just had my two copies in the mail today. With 11 > days delivery time from US to Europe via the "expedited > international shipping" option, and no customs tax in my case, this > is a very good deal for a book order from the United States. And the > price (see above) is almost unbeatable! > > So folks, what are you waiting for? :-) > > Alex > Berlin/Germany > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From mexicodoug at aim.com Wed Jul 16 17:04:39 2008 From: mexicodoug at aim.com (mexicodoug at aim.com) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 17:04:39 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] well, that's something! In-Reply-To: <012e01c8e784$5f6baa90$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> References: <012e01c8e784$5f6baa90$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: <8CAB59EB228477F-6C0-27F7@FWM-D18.sysops.aol.com> Hi Martin, beautiful :) :) :) Strange? Come on Martin - it's a huggable anatomically correct Mars (well, Nix Olympia looks to be only stamped) !!! All it (doesn't) need is to be drawn in Mars meteoritepowder-containing inks ... Anyway, one Mars travel pillow will be soon on its way here ... Best wishes, with thanks, Doug -----Original Message----- From: Martin Altmann To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 3:41 pm Subject: [meteorite-list] well, that's something! http://www.huggaplanet.com/hugmar.html I guess, I need such a Mars. But if the other children in the kindergarten still want to play with yours, if you give them such strange toys ? Martin ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From jan at meteorieten.com Wed Jul 16 19:07:33 2008 From: jan at meteorieten.com (Jan Bartels) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 01:07:33 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [meteorite-list] [AD] Crazy offer... Message-ID: <63981.85.145.6.103.1216249653.squirrel@webmail.uniserver.nl> Dear Listoids, Need to raise cash quickly so here's an offer you can't refuse. Offering only in one complete sale: Freshest Allende individual 230 grams. Benguerir 722 grams. Complete (broken, two pieces)Picked up right after touchdown. Cape York etched slice 553 grams. Gao most beautifull oriented specimen 105 grams. Pictures here: Cape York http://pic70.picturetrail.com/VOL1850/8117688/20105271/325868468.jpg Allende: http://pic70.picturetrail.com/VOL1850/8117688/20105271/325868452.jpg http://pic70.picturetrail.com/VOL1850/8117688/20105271/325868440.jpg http://pic70.picturetrail.com/VOL1850/8117688/20105271/325868410.jpg Gao: http://pic70.picturetrail.com/VOL1850/8117688/20105271/325868291.jpg http://pic70.picturetrail.com/VOL1850/8117688/20105271/325868301.jpg http://pic70.picturetrail.com/VOL1850/8117688/20105271/325868314.jpg Benguerir: http://pic70.picturetrail.com/VOL1850/8117688/20105271/325868329.jpg http://pic70.picturetrail.com/VOL1850/8117688/20105271/325868352.jpg Offers starting from 6500 dollars and up welcome..... Contact only off list pls. Paypal only Cheers all, Jan Bartels Heavenly Bodies Meteorites www.heavenlybodies.nl Holland From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com Wed Jul 16 19:31:58 2008 From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 16:31:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] [AD] Crazy offer... Message-ID: <573779.84934.qm@web57801.mail.re3.yahoo.com> How much for the gao piece? From jack.schrader at cox.net Wed Jul 16 19:57:26 2008 From: jack.schrader at cox.net (Jack Schrader) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 16:57:26 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] [AD] Crazy offer... In-Reply-To: <573779.84934.qm@web57801.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <573779.84934.qm@web57801.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <007801c8e79f$b2a8c380$f49ae744@jacke5514a414c> $6500.00 Steve -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of steve arnold Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 4:32 PM To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] [AD] Crazy offer... How much for the gao piece? ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From h3chondrite at cox.net Wed Jul 16 20:03:56 2008 From: h3chondrite at cox.net (JKGwilliam) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 17:03:56 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] [AD] Crazy offer... Message-ID: <20080717000409.KJSW6684.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> What a Silly Sally you are Steve. Go back and read Jan's post. 1. Need to raise cash quickly so here's an offer you can't refuse. Offering only in one complete sale: 2. Contact only off list pls. John At 04:31 PM 7/16/2008, steve arnold wrote: >How much for the gao piece? > > > >______________________________________________ >http://www.meteoritecentral.com >Meteorite-list mailing list >Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Wed Jul 16 21:17:12 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 18:17:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Phoenix Rasps Frozen Layer, Collects Sample Message-ID: <200807170117.SAA03329@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/phoenix/release.php?ArticleID=1788 Phoenix Rasps Frozen Layer, Collects Sample Jet Propulsion Laboratory July 16, 2008 TUCSON, Ariz. -- A powered rasp on the back of the robotic arm scoop of NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander successfully drilled into the frozen soil and loosened material that was collected in the lander's scoop. Images and data sent from Phoenix early Wednesday indicated the shaved material in the scoop had changed slightly over time during the hours after it was collected. The motorized rasp -- located on the back of the lander's robotic arm scoop -- made two distinct holes in a trench informally named "Snow White." The material loosened by the rasp was collected in the scoop and documented by the Robotic Arm Camera. The activity was a test of the rasping method of gathering an icy sample, in preparation for using that method in coming days to collect a sample for analysis in an oven of Phoenix's Thermal and Evolved-Gas Analyzer. "This was a trial that went really well," said Richard Morris, a Phoenix science team member from NASA's Johnson Space Center, Houston. "While the putative ice sublimed out of the shavings over several hours, this shows us there will be a good chance ice will remain in a sample for delivery" to Phoenix's laboratory ovens. Phoenix on Wednesday will be commanded to continue scraping and enlarging the "Snow White" trench and to conduct another series of rasp tests. The lander's cameras will again be used to monitor the sample in the scoop after its collection. The Phoenix mission is led by Peter Smith of the University of Arizona with project management at JPL and development partnership at Lockheed Martin, Denver. International contributions come from the Canadian Space Agency; the University of Neuchatel; the universities of Copenhagen and Aarhus, Denmark; Max Planck Institute, Germany; and the Finnish Meteorological Institute. For more about Phoenix, visit: http://www.nasa.gov/phoenix and http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu. Media contacts: Guy Webster 818-354-6278 Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. guy.webster at jpl.nasa.gov Dwayne Brown 202-358-1726 NASA Headquarters, Washington dwayne.c.brown at nasa.gov Sara Hammond 520-626-1974 University of Arizona, Tucson shammond at lpl.arizona.edu 2008-134 From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Wed Jul 16 21:21:12 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 18:21:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] MRO Spacecraft Shows Diverse, Wet Environments on Ancient Mars Message-ID: <200807170121.SAA04441@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> July 16, 2008 Dwayne Brown Headquarters, Washington 202-358-1726 dwayne.c.brown at nasa.gov Guy Webster Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. 818-354-5011 guy.webster at jpl.nasa.gov Jennifer Huergo The Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory, Laurel, Md. 240- 228-5618 jennifer.Huergo at jhuapl.edu RELEASE: 08-177 NASA SPACECRAFT SHOWS DIVERSE, WET ENVIRONMENTS ON ANCIENT MARS WASHINGTON -- Two studies based on data from NASA's Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter have revealed that the Red Planet once hosted vast lakes, flowing rivers and a variety of other wet environments that had the potential to support life. One study, published in the July 17 issue of Nature, shows that vast regions of the ancient highlands of Mars, which cover about half the planet, contain clay minerals, which can form only in the presence of water. Volcanic lavas buried the clay-rich regions during subsequent, drier periods of the planet's history, but impact craters later exposed them at thousands of locations across Mars. The data for the study derives from images taken by the Compact Reconnaissance Imaging Spectrometer for Mars, or CRISM, and other instruments on the orbiter. "The big surprise from these new results is how pervasive and long-lasting Mars' water was, and how diverse the wet environments were," said Scott Murchie, CRISM principal investigator at the Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory in Laurel, Md. The clay-like minerals, called phyllosilicates, preserve a record of the interaction of water with rocks dating back to what is called the Noachian period of Mars' history, approximately 4.6 billion to 3.8 billion years ago. This period corresponds to the earliest years of the solar system, when Earth, the moon and Mars sustained a cosmic bombardment by comets and asteroids. Rocks of this age have largely been destroyed on Earth by plate tectonics. They are preserved on the moon, but were never exposed to liquid water. The phyllosilicate-containing rocks on Mars preserve a unique record of liquid water environments possibly suitable for life in the early solar system. "The minerals present in Mars' ancient crust show a variety of wet environments," said John Mustard, a member of the CRISM team from Brown University, and lead author of the Nature study. "In most locations the rocks are lightly altered by liquid water, but in a few locations they have been so altered that a great deal of water must have flushed though the rocks and soil. This is really exciting because we're finding dozens of sites where future missions can land to understand if Mars was ever habitable and if so, to look for signs of past life." Another study, published in the June 2 issue of Nature Geosciences, finds that the wet conditions on Mars persisted for a long time. Thousands to millions of years after the clays formed, a system of river channels eroded them out of the highlands and concentrated them in a delta where the river emptied into a crater lake slightly larger than California's Lake Tahoe, approximately 25 miles in diameter. "The distribution of clays inside the ancient lakebed shows that standing water must have persisted for thousands of years," says Bethany Ehlmann, another member of the CRISM team from Brown. Ehlmann is lead author of the study of an ancient lake within a northern-Mars impact basin called Jezero Crater. "Clays are wonderful at trapping and preserving organic matter, so if life ever existed in this region, there's a chance of its chemistry being preserved in the delta." CRISM's high spatial and spectral resolutions are better than any previous spectrometer sent to Mars and reveal variations in the types and composition of the phyllosilicate minerals. By combining data from CRISM and the orbiter's Context Imager and High Resolution Imaging Science Experiment, the team identified three principal classes of water-related minerals dating to the early Noachian period. The classes are aluminum-phyllosilicates, hydrated silica or opal, and the more common and widespread iron/magnesium-phyllosilicates. The variations in the minerals suggest that different processes, or different types of watery environments, created them. "Our whole team is turning our findings into a list of sites where future missions could land to look for organic chemistry and perhaps determine whether life ever existed on Mars," said Murchie. NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif., manages the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter mission for NASA's Science Mission Directorate in Washington. The Applied Physics Laboratory operates the CRISM instrument in coordination with an international team of researchers from universities, government and the private sector. For more information on the new studies, visit: http://www.nasa.gov/mro -end- From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Wed Jul 16 21:30:19 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 18:30:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars Express to Rendezvous with Phobos Message-ID: <200807170130.SAA06328@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEMVGAWIPIF_index_0.html Mars Express to rendezvous with Martian moon European Space Agency 16 July 2008 Scientists and engineers are preparing ESA's Mars Express for a pair of close fly-bys of the Martian moon Phobos. Passing within 100 km of the surface, Mars Express will conduct some of the most detailed investigations of the moon to date. The series of fly-bys will take place between 12 July and 3 August. During the second encounter, the spacecraft will fly within 273 km of the surface. Six days later, Mars Express will close to within just 97 km. Although the Red Planet itself has been studied in detail, very little is known about the origins of its moons, Phobos and Deimos. It is unclear if the moons are actually asteroids that were captured by Mars's gravity and never left its orbit. Another possibility is that Phobos and Deimos are actually surviving planetesimals, bodies which formed the planets of the Solar System. They may also be remnants of an impact of a large object on Mars. As Mars Express closes-in on Phobos, the data gathered will help scientists answer these questions. Mars Express has flown close to Phobos in the past, but this is the first time that the spacecraft will be less than 100 km from the moon. To achieve this proximity to Phobos, spacecraft operations engineers and scientists have been working together to optimise the trajectory of Mars Express to obtain optimum science results -- this is not the case for routine fly-bys. As it flies by at a distance of 97 km, Mars Express will image areas of Phobos that have never been glimpsed before. The High-Resolution Stereo Camera (HRSC) on board the orbiter will take pictures of the moon's surface with the highest resolution possible, in colour, and in 3-D. The data obtained will be added to a digital terrain model (DTM). This DTM will help scientists visualise what it would be like to stand on the moon's surface by calculating its topography, or the elevation of its surface. The camera may also capture an image of the intended landing site for Russia's Phobos-Grunt mission, due for launch in 2009. The manoeuvres required to observe this site are an operational challenge, and the activity involves close cooperation between ESA mission scientists, the flight control team and flight dynamics specialists. The Visible and Infrared Mineralogical Mapping Spectrometer, OMEGA, the Planetary Fourier Spectrometer, PFS, and the Ultraviolet and Infrared Atmospheric Spectrometer, SPICAM, will also gather details on the surface composition, geochemistry and temperature of Phobos. The Mars Advanced Radar for Subsurface and Ionosphere Sounding (MARSIS) will collect information during two flybys (23 and 28 July) on the topography of the moon's surface and on the structure of its interior. The Energetic neutral atoms analyser, ASPERA will study the environment around Phobos, in particular the plasma that surrounds the moon and also the interaction of the moon with the solar wind. During the second fly-by, all efforts will be concentrated on accurately determining the mass of the moon using the Mars Radio Science experiment (MaRS). The upcoming fly-bys Date Altitude at closest approach 12 July 563 km 17 July 273 km 23 July 97 km 28 July 361 km 3 August 664 km For more information: Agustin Chicarro, ESA Mars Express Project Scientist E-mail: Agustin.Chicarro @ esa.int Olivier Witasse, ESA Mars Express Deputy Project Scientist Email: Olivier.Witasse @ esa.int [NOTE: Images and weblinks supporting this release are available at http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEMVGAWIPIF_index_1.html ] From pshugar at clearwire.net Wed Jul 16 23:30:46 2008 From: pshugar at clearwire.net (Pete Shugar) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 22:30:46 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Earth must face up to threat from asteroids, expert warns References: <002901c8e614$6fea0040$8eb6fea9@Gregor> Message-ID: <000f01c8e7bd$82717d10$0201a8c0@portable> As I see it, the one problem will be the rotation of the asteroid. It may well take a computer controlled rocket engine to pulse everytime the rotation is aligned so the pulse will always nudge the asteroid in the desired direction. Lord help us if it tumbles randomly. Pete From info at mcomemeteorite.it Thu Jul 17 03:50:24 2008 From: info at mcomemeteorite.it (M come Meteorite Meteorites) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 09:50:24 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Who is the responsable of IMCA? Message-ID: <487ef9c0.2bf.71fd.1024885679@webmaildh6.aruba.it> I have to speack with him matteo From nwa482 at comcast.net Thu Jul 17 07:18:03 2008 From: nwa482 at comcast.net (Jim Strope) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 07:18:03 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Ebay Auctions ending Message-ID: <000201c8e7fe$c80aa770$0202a8c0@DJQVK441> Good Morning All........ I have auctions ending tonight, ebay ID catchafallingstar.com. ALL started at just 99 Cents!!! FULL RECAP: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZcatchafallingstar.com Of special note, I have a 3 Planetaries to offer this time: NWA 2995 Lunar, has Lots of Anorthositic clasts: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200234919764 NWA 2977 Lunar Gabbro with FUSION CRUST: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200234920314 NWA 2986 Martian Shergottite: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200234920809 Plus many more. Including four of the Meteorite Medals/Coins started at no reserve: http://members.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPage&userid=catchafallingstar.com Thanks for looking ................ Jim Strope http://www.catchafallingstar.com From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Thu Jul 17 07:57:34 2008 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 13:57:34 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Another Carancas Paper Message-ID: <009d01c8e804$4d1e3e40$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> For the Carancas-friends. Here is another paper by Kenkmann, Artemevia, Poelchau suggesting a less dramatic impact scenario: http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2008/pdf/1094.pdf Best! Martin From fcressy at prodigy.net Thu Jul 17 10:29:37 2008 From: fcressy at prodigy.net (Frank Cressy) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 07:29:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] And yet Another Carancas Article (w/ Pics) - Geotimes In-Reply-To: <009d01c8e804$4d1e3e40$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: <486370.34466.qm@web80203.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello all, Here's anpther article on Carancas from the magazine Geotimes by Lionel E. Jackson Jr., Peter Brown, Jay Melosh and Dolores Hill. Very well done. http://www.geotimes.org/july08/article.html?id=feature_meteorite.html If the link doesn't work you can see it at: www.geotimes.org Enjoy, Frank From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com Thu Jul 17 10:36:34 2008 From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 07:36:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] (AD) GAO'S FOR TRADE,MALI FOR SALE Message-ID: <263142.24151.qm@web57803.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi list.I have 5 very nice gao's ranging between 161 grams and 600 grams I am willing to trade.I am looking for any nice sikote-alins 200 grams or bigger.Pics upon request.I also have a very nice forsale 200 grams $200.All piece are 95% crusted or better.Let me know offlist. chicago steve From epgrondine at yahoo.com Thu Jul 17 10:56:59 2008 From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 07:56:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Diverting rotating asteroids and comets Message-ID: <56359.16736.qm@web36905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi Pete, all - The best method of diversion that I have seen involves the use of Solid State Heat Capacity Lasers (SSHCL), as it is not affected by rotation. The laser uses the objects own material as "fuel" for a jet reaction - the moment of force remains the same regardless of rotation. This method was proposed by an engineering team from NASA Langley in their CAPS (Comet and Asteroid Protection System) study. Evryone looks for non-nuclear charge options, but they are available if need be. Thankfully, small objects can be diverted by kinetic impact if discovered early enough. E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas From axelsson at acc.umu.se Thu Jul 17 14:27:25 2008 From: axelsson at acc.umu.se (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=F6ran_Axelsson?=) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 20:27:25 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] meteorite hunting in Western Australia In-Reply-To: References: <48760B52.60501@acc.umu.se> <4876A325.6050608@optushome.com.au> <4877B3BD.5020507@acc.umu.se> Message-ID: <487F8F0D.3080201@acc.umu.se> Thanks for all the tips about Western Australian meteorites and tektites. I haven't answered most of the mails I got, I'm a bit sporadically connected to the net while on the road but I read all and appreciate them. I have taken your advice in consideration. Advices ranged from "you are not allowed to touch them" to "Strange rocks are okay to collect"... even from one of the staff of the Perth Museum. "Put it in your pocket and don't tell anyone" was his reply... and then he laughed, "I've been in the desert all my life and I've never seen a meteorite. Good luck!" I will still go east to see Kalgoorlie and the mining towns in the desert. I will hunt for some australites and see if I can find any good mineral collecting places. Dig for some gold and just have a nice time. If I happens to stumble onto a suspected meteorite then I have to decide if I just leave it or bring it back to the museum. So far none have been able to cite the law so all I have is advice... guess it all boils down to common sense. I have a GPS, extra batteries, zip lock bags and a pen to mark the bags. So if I happens to find a meteorite then I can take good care of it and deliver it to the museum. /Goran From axelsson at acc.umu.se Thu Jul 17 14:32:48 2008 From: axelsson at acc.umu.se (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=F6ran_Axelsson?=) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 20:32:48 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] West Australian Perth Museum Pictures In-Reply-To: <47236.127.0.0.1.1212071287.squirrel@srv08.ezyreg.com> References: <43580.127.0.0.1.1212048057.squirrel@srv08.ezyreg.com> <20080529043113.uyz25vr78kwg08wk@annasach.net> <47236.127.0.0.1.1212071287.squirrel@srv08.ezyreg.com> Message-ID: <487F9050.8030006@acc.umu.se> Thanks for the tip! I visited the museum today and I'm also a mineral collector so I had a lot of fun. I had space left on my memory card but I ran out of battery. But that's no problem, I still have time to go back for a second visit before I leave this country. I'll make a web page with the pictures when I get back home. The rest of the exhibitions was also very interesting. But I must say that I most enjoyed the names of the meteorites here... I've finally met "Billygoat Donga" and "Dingo Pup Donga"... and I have a picture to prove it. :-) /Goran info at tektiteinc.com wrote: > Hi all, > > Thanks for all the comments. Forgot to mention to all the Mineral > collectors out there that the museum also has an excellent Minerals > collection! Unfortunately I didnt have the time nor space on my memory > card to take pictures of these. > > "I have pictures of similar in Adelaide and Vienna from a couple of months > ago which I must load up some where for folks to see." > > Graham, if your looking for somewhere to upload your museum pics then you > should try Aubrey Whymark's site where there is a section dedicated to > museum pics! Please see link: > > http://www.tektites.co.uk/museums.html > > Cheers > Des > > > >> Great pictures Desmond. Those big irons, in particular, are beautiful. >> >> Mark >> >> >> Quoting info at tektiteinc.com: >> >> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> Please see the link below of my recent visit to the Western Australian >>> Museum while I was back home in Perth. >>> >>> > Cheers, > Desmond Leong > IMCA #2254 > http://www.TektiteInc.com > http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZtektiteinc-dot-com > From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Thu Jul 17 19:25:54 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 16:25:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Ceres May Be An Asteroid Impersonator Message-ID: <200807172325.QAA06734@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/34157/title/Ceres_may_be_an_asteroid_impersonator Ceres may be an asteroid impersonator By Ron Cowen Science News July 15, 2008 The largest member of the asteroid belt could have emigrated from the solar system's fringe If planetary scientist Bill McKinnon's hunch is right, the largest asteroid in the solar system isn't an asteroid at all. Ceres, as the 470-kilometer-wide object is called, may be a relative of Pluto that formed at the solar system's fringes but came in from the cold several billion years ago. McKinnon, based at Washington University in St. Louis, said he was first struck by Ceres' unusually low density - more similar to icy comets from the outer solar system than the rocky bodies found in the asteroid belt that lies between the orbits of Mars and Jupiter. The density of Ceres, referred to as a dwarf planet, is only slightly higher than that of Pluto. Models suggest Ceres "looks remarkably Pluto-like," McKinnon says. But it was a recently developed model of the early solar system that prompted McKinnon to formally propose that Ceres might be an escapee from the Kuiper belt, an outer solar system reservoir of frozen bodies that includes Pluto. He presented his proposal July 15 in Baltimore at the Asteroids, Comets, Meteors conference. According to the model, developed by researchers including Hal Levison and Bill Bottke of the Southwest Research Institute in Boulder, Colo., and Alessandro Morbidelli of Observatory of the C??te d'Azur in Nice, France, the orbits of the outer four planets - Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune - were initially packed much closer together than they are today. Beyond these planets resided a band of dust, ice and gas particles. Over time, as some of these particles leaked inward, their gravitational tug lengthened the distance between the orbs. For instance, Jupiter migrated inward, while Saturn moved outward. At some point, according to the theory, Saturn reached a gravitational sweet spot: The time it took to go around the sun became exactly twice that of Jupiter's. That interplay strengthened the planets' mutual tug, and ultimately hurled Uranus and Neptune into the outlying band of dust, ice and gas. The entry of Uranus and Neptune scattered debris from the chilly band, sending some of its denizens into the inner solar system. That's how Ceres might have migrated from the outer solar system into the asteroid belt, McKinnon suggests. "We are saying that many objects from the outer solar system - what we call the primordial disk of comets that went on to produce the Kuiper belt - are captured in the outer part of the asteroid belt as a byproduct of the model," Bottke says. He and Levison presented updated versions of the theory at the meeting just before McKinnon's presentation. "I consider McKinnon's idea as something of a thought balloon to stimulate thinking," Bottke says. "It is indeed possible that he is correct, but I would not bet for it at this point." Additional information on Ceres' composition, to be gathered by NASA's Dawn spacecraft when it visits Ceres in 2015, could clarify the body's origin. But proof may require measuring the ratio of hydrogen to its heavier isotope, deuterium, in the ices or water vapor venting from the body, which would require a mission beyond Dawn, McKinnon says. If the ratio matches that observed in comets, "the case is closed" for Ceres being an emigre to the asteroid belt, he says. From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Thu Jul 17 19:37:47 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 16:37:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] MRO HiRISE Images - July 16, 2008 Message-ID: <200807172337.QAA10109@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> MARS RECONNAISSANCE ORBITER HIRISE IMAGES July 16, 2008 o Mystery Mounds http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_008778_1685 o Layering and Inverted Streams http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_008774_1755 o Cratered Cones in Utopia Planitia u http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_008767_2055 o Layered Rocks in Orson Welles Crater http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_008391_1790 All of the HiRISE images are archived here: http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ Information about the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter is online at http://www.nasa.gov/mro. The mission is managed by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, a division of the California Institute of Technology, for the NASA Science Mission Directorate, Washington, D.C. Lockheed Martin Space Systems, of Denver, is the prime contractor and built the spacecraft. HiRISE is operated by the University of Arizona. Ball Aerospace and Technologies Corp., of Boulder, Colo., built the HiRISE instrument. From dragonsoup at msn.com Thu Jul 17 19:54:38 2008 From: dragonsoup at msn.com (Maria Haas) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 16:54:38 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Help With Gary Foote's Recovery! Message-ID: Hello Everyone, I am scurrying around getting things together for a silent auction of items donated for Gary and I have to tell you, the painting donated by Jerry Armstrong of the Tagish Lake fall is incredible. While it will take a few more days to get the page up with pictures and details to start the auction, I thought you'd like to see the painting right now. Please feel free to check it out on Michael Blood's site at http://michaelbloodmeteorites.com/JerryArmstrong.html. The auction details will not be posted on Michael's site, rather they are being hosted by John Gwilliam, who is patiently waiting for me to complete the item descriptions so that I can get the auction started. I'll post again with details on how you can own that painting and/or: - A serial-numbered Nininger/Canyon Diablo Coin -- Only 10 were made for the Nininger family. This one is #9 - HH's copy of a Science Magazine from 1961, footnoted on the cover in HH's writing - An individual 91.2 gram Vaca Muerta - Two pieces of Carancas, one has a very visible clast! - A cute little NWA 869 oriented shield - Two authentic bricks from the Nininger Museum at Meteor Crater I am gladly accepting other meteorites or meteorite-related collectables, should you have something you can part with for a really good cause. Please feel free to contact me. Thank you for your support, Maria From dave at fallingrocks.com Thu Jul 17 22:27:33 2008 From: dave at fallingrocks.com (Dave Gheesling) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 22:27:33 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Help With Gary Foote's Recovery! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Fantastic! -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Maria Haas Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 7:55 PM To: IMCA Mailing List; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Help With Gary Foote's Recovery! Hello Everyone, I am scurrying around getting things together for a silent auction of items donated for Gary and I have to tell you, the painting donated by Jerry Armstrong of the Tagish Lake fall is incredible. While it will take a few more days to get the page up with pictures and details to start the auction, I thought you'd like to see the painting right now. Please feel free to check it out on Michael Blood's site at http://michaelbloodmeteorites.com/JerryArmstrong.html. The auction details will not be posted on Michael's site, rather they are being hosted by John Gwilliam, who is patiently waiting for me to complete the item descriptions so that I can get the auction started. I'll post again with details on how you can own that painting and/or: - A serial-numbered Nininger/Canyon Diablo Coin -- Only 10 were made for the Nininger family. This one is #9 - HH's copy of a Science Magazine from 1961, footnoted on the cover in HH's writing - An individual 91.2 gram Vaca Muerta - Two pieces of Carancas, one has a very visible clast! - A cute little NWA 869 oriented shield - Two authentic bricks from the Nininger Museum at Meteor Crater I am gladly accepting other meteorites or meteorite-related collectables, should you have something you can part with for a really good cause. Please feel free to contact me. Thank you for your support, Maria ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From pshugar at clearwire.net Thu Jul 17 23:12:26 2008 From: pshugar at clearwire.net (Pete Shugar) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 22:12:26 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Parent Bodies Message-ID: <000901c8e884$1c267a70$0201a8c0@portable> With all the talk of Pluto and it's demoting, I got to looking in Wikipedia and then the subject of meteorites came up regarding 4Vesta. This got me to wondering, are there any meteorites that may be a candidate for Ceres as the parent body? If so, which ones are they? Interestingly enough, Ceres has had also it's share of demoting and upmoting as well. It all goes to show that nothing is very permanent in any of the sciences. Pete From mmurray at montrose.net Thu Jul 17 23:18:13 2008 From: mmurray at montrose.net (Michael Murray) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 21:18:13 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Parent Bodies In-Reply-To: <000901c8e884$1c267a70$0201a8c0@portable> References: <000901c8e884$1c267a70$0201a8c0@portable> Message-ID: I believe it has plenty of impact craters but no candidates so far. Dawn might help figure that out though. Mike in CO On Jul 17, 2008, at 9:12 PM, Pete Shugar wrote: > With all the talk of Pluto and it's demoting, I got to looking > in Wikipedia and then the subject of meteorites came up > regarding 4Vesta. This got me to wondering, are there any > meteorites that may be a candidate for Ceres as the parent > body? If so, which ones are they? > Interestingly enough, Ceres has had also it's share of demoting > and upmoting as well. > It all goes to show that nothing is very permanent in any > of the sciences. > Pete > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu Fri Jul 18 07:14:08 2008 From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu (lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu) Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 04:14:08 -0700 (MST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars in 3D In-Reply-To: <200807172325.QAA06734@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> References: <200807172325.QAA06734@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <58893.71.226.60.25.1216379648.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> Hi All: I do not think that I have seen this posted. Get out your 3D glasses for some neat views of the surface of Mars from the Phoenix lander. http://uanews.org/node/20619 Larry From lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu Fri Jul 18 08:16:29 2008 From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu (lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu) Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 05:16:29 -0700 (MST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Parent Bodies In-Reply-To: References: <000901c8e884$1c267a70$0201a8c0@portable> Message-ID: <59178.71.226.60.25.1216383389.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> Hi Pete and Michael: The latest information that I am aware of is by Rivkin, et al. in Icarus in 2006. Ceres is a G-class asteroid (similar to the C-class, carbonaceous, asteroids, but with some differences in its visible spectrum and a little brighter). Rivkin's analysis (of 3-micron observations) is that Ceres is composed of iron-rich clays and about 5% carbonates, which makes it similar to CI meteorites. However, there are other G-class asteroids, so the connection is not as clear cut as with Vesta and the vestoids (sounds like a rock group). Larry On Thu, July 17, 2008 8:18 pm, Michael Murray wrote: > I believe it has plenty of impact craters but no candidates so far. > Dawn might help figure that out though. > Mike in CO > > > On Jul 17, 2008, at 9:12 PM, Pete Shugar wrote: > > >> With all the talk of Pluto and it's demoting, I got to looking >> in Wikipedia and then the subject of meteorites came up regarding 4Vesta. >> This got me to wondering, are there any >> meteorites that may be a candidate for Ceres as the parent body? If so, >> which ones are they? Interestingly enough, Ceres has had also it's share >> of demoting and upmoting as well. It all goes to show that nothing is >> very permanent in any of the sciences. Pete >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From rsvp321 at hotmail.com Fri Jul 18 11:20:36 2008 From: rsvp321 at hotmail.com (Pete Pete) Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 11:20:36 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars in 3D In-Reply-To: <58893.71.226.60.25.1216379648.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> References: <200807172325.QAA06734@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> <58893.71.226.60.25.1216379648.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> Message-ID: What a pleasure - what a great tech-time to live in! In most of the pics, esp: http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/260387main_SS016IOF897644320_11E1CL1T1_full.jpg http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/260387main_SS016IOF897644320_11E1CL1T1_full.jpg there is a curious mix of rounded stones and sharp fractured stones. Cheers, Pete > Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 04:14:08 -0700 > From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu > To: Lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu > CC: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars in 3D > > Hi All: > > > I do not think that I have seen this posted. > > Get out your 3D glasses for some neat views of the surface of Mars from > the Phoenix lander. > > > http://uanews.org/node/20619 > > Larry > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _________________________________________________________________ Find hidden words, unscramble celebrity names, or try the ultimate crossword puzzle with Live Search Games. Play now! http://g.msn.ca/ca55/212 From MeteorHntr at aol.com Fri Jul 18 11:25:08 2008 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 11:25:08 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars in 3D Message-ID: Larry, Wow, some of those sure look like water washes one sees in Earth deserts. I found myself ducking my head lower (as if I was looking out a window) in hopes of seeing farther out onto the horizon of some of these photos. SNC rocks by the BILLIONS and BILLIONS! Thanks Larry. Steve #1 **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) From rsvp321 at hotmail.com Fri Jul 18 11:28:12 2008 From: rsvp321 at hotmail.com (Pete Pete) Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 11:28:12 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars in 3D In-Reply-To: <58893.71.226.60.25.1216379648.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> References: <200807172325.QAA06734@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> <58893.71.226.60.25.1216379648.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> Message-ID: What a pleasure - what a great tech-time to live in! In most of the pics, esp: http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/260387main_SS016IOF897644320_11E1CL1T1_full.jpg http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/260387main_SS016IOF897644320_11E1CL1T1_full.jpg there is a curious mix of rounded stones and sharp fractured stones. Cheers, Pete > Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 04:14:08 -0700 > From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu > To: Lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu > CC: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars in 3D > > Hi All: > > > I do not think that I have seen this posted. > > Get out your 3D glasses for some neat views of the surface of Mars from > the Phoenix lander. > > > http://uanews.org/node/20619 > > Larry > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _________________________________________________________________ From pshugar at clearwire.net Fri Jul 18 11:36:08 2008 From: pshugar at clearwire.net (Pete Shugar) Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 10:36:08 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars in 3D Message-ID: <001301c8e8ec$01728f30$0201a8c0@portable> I guess I'm outa luck as I only have 2D glasses. Where do you find the 3D glasses? I should have saved mine from when I was a kid back in prehistoric times. Pete From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com Fri Jul 18 11:50:30 2008 From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold) Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 08:50:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] (AD) update GAO'S for trade,MALI forsale Message-ID: <864941.83749.qm@web57804.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi again all.There were a couple of items I did not mention in my post yesterday.The gao weights (644 grams),(354 grams)(161 grams).The MALI piece weighs 200.7 grams and is 95% fusion crusted.Also besides sikote-alins and I am looking for nicely crusted unclassified stones as well.Sorry for this 2nd post.I hould have included everything offlist. chicago steve From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Fri Jul 18 11:47:41 2008 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 18 Jul 2008 15:47:41 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] 3D Glasses Message-ID: Hi Pete and List, "Where do you find the 3D glasses?" Here, for example: http://www.3dglasses.net/ I've got five of these and how good it is I sometimes don't listen to what my Pauline says: "Don't keep all this crap, you don't need it!" Bernd ;-) From mary.kashuba at verizon.net Fri Jul 18 12:17:32 2008 From: mary.kashuba at verizon.net (Kashuba) Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 09:17:32 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars in 3D In-Reply-To: <001301c8e8ec$01728f30$0201a8c0@portable> References: <001301c8e8ec$01728f30$0201a8c0@portable> Message-ID: <000c01c8e8f1$c882b230$59881690$@kashuba@verizon.net> Pete, Bernd, List, I have bought 3D glasses from these folks: http://www.berezin.com/3D/3dglasses.htm There's nothing wrong with the cheap cardboard ones for occasional use. They are also easy to stick into an envelope to send to friends so they can see 3D pics you might produce and post. Here are a few anaglyphs I've made myself. My favorite is the small vug of crystals in D'Orbigny Angrite. http://johnkashuba.com/Anaglyph_Index.html All the best, - John John Kashuba Ontario, California -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Pete Shugar Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 8:36 AM To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars in 3D I guess I'm outa luck as I only have 2D glasses. Where do you find the 3D glasses? I should have saved mine from when I was a kid back in prehistoric times. Pete ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From cynapse at charter.net Fri Jul 18 12:33:31 2008 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 12:33:31 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars in 3D In-Reply-To: <001301c8e8ec$01728f30$0201a8c0@portable> References: <001301c8e8ec$01728f30$0201a8c0@portable> Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 10:36:08 -0500, you wrote: >I guess I'm outa luck as I only have 2D glasses. >Where do you find the 3D glasses? I should have >saved mine from when I was a kid back in prehistoric >times. In general, most times when a question starts with "where do you get", the answer is "Ebay:. http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?from=R40&_trksid=m37&satitle=3-d+glasses&category0= I have some that I bought on Ebay years back (when 3-D shots from NASA first came out) that were from SpyKids 3D. They work fine. From rsvp321 at hotmail.com Fri Jul 18 12:44:08 2008 From: rsvp321 at hotmail.com (Pete Pete) Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 12:44:08 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars in 3D In-Reply-To: <001301c8e8ec$01728f30$0201a8c0@portable> References: <001301c8e8ec$01728f30$0201a8c0@portable> Message-ID: Hi, all, Mine are from one of my daughter's old 3D books. Any craft store, or gift wrapping store selling cellophane sheets will give you the materials. Cheers, Pete > From: pshugar at clearwire.net > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 10:36:08 -0500 > Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars in 3D > > I guess I'm outa luck as I only have 2D glasses. > Where do you find the 3D glasses? I should have > saved mine from when I was a kid back in prehistoric > times. > Pete > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _________________________________________________________________ If you like crossword puzzles, then you'll love Flexicon, a game which combines four overlapping crossword puzzles into one! http://g.msn.ca/ca55/208 From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Fri Jul 18 13:11:24 2008 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 18 Jul 2008 17:11:24 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteoritic Anaglyphs Message-ID: Wow, John, ... awesome meteoritic anaglyphs, especially the Gibeon and, of course, those augite crystals in the D'Orbigny! http://www.berezin.com/3D/3dglasses.htm Best, Bernd From cynapse at charter.net Fri Jul 18 14:49:57 2008 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 14:49:57 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] When the moon hits your eye, from a robot in the sky In-Reply-To: <200807172325.QAA06734@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> References: <200807172325.QAA06734@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <4dp184hl8369qj5mnh9u89eep594hmtv8b@4ax.com> Shots taken by Deep Impact of the moon transiting the Earth. http://www.nasa.gov/topics/solarsystem/features/epoxi_transit.html From m42protosun at aol.com Fri Jul 18 14:08:11 2008 From: m42protosun at aol.com (m42protosun at aol.com) Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 14:08:11 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] test with new editor Message-ID: <8CAB7185FCC4208-10C0-2FE3@Webmail-mg12.sim.aol.com> Hi please ignore ________________________________________________________________________ AOL eMail auf Ihrem Handy! Ab sofort k?nnen Sie auch unterwegs Ihre AOL email abrufen. Registrieren Sie sich jetzt kostenlos. From lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu Fri Jul 18 15:18:11 2008 From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu (lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu) Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 12:18:11 -0700 (MST) Subject: [meteorite-list] 3D Glasses In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <60070.71.226.60.25.1216408691.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> Hi Bernd: Yes this is where I get my 3D glasses as well as eclipse glasses and glass I you to show spectra to my entire class. Larry On Fri, July 18, 2008 8:47 am, bernd.pauli at paulinet.de wrote: > Hi Pete and List, > > > "Where do you find the 3D glasses?" > > > Here, for example: > > > http://www.3dglasses.net/ > > > I've got five of these and how good it is I sometimes don't listen to > what my Pauline says: "Don't keep all this crap, you don't need it!" > > Bernd ;-) > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Fri Jul 18 16:26:40 2008 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 18 Jul 2008 20:26:40 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] When the moon hits your eye, from a robot in the sky Message-ID: Darren posted: "Shots taken by Deep Impact of the moon transiting the Earth" http://www.nasa.gov/topics/solarsystem/features/epoxi_transit.html For heaven's sake, this is an awe-inspiring video sequence! What a thrilling experience to see our blue marble projected against the pitch-black backdrop of the sky and watch the continents rotating counterclockwise into and out of view. And then, ... I held my breath as I saw the Moon with its brownish tint passing in front of the Earth while the continents were still moving from left to right. Bernd From fuzzfoot at comcast.net Fri Jul 18 16:51:49 2008 From: fuzzfoot at comcast.net (Mike Bandli) Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 13:51:49 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Rare Falls and Finds - Auctions Message-ID: <20080718205158.0C4FA1056F@mailwash5.pair.com> http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/astroartifacts I have many great meteorites covering many different types of collections ending this weekend: Eagle Station - The namesake! Bilanga - Witnessed Diogenite. Dong Ujimqin Qi - One of only seven witnessed Mesosiderites! D'Orbigny - Great Vug! Holbrook - Complete crusted mini-stone. Tambo Quemado Wiluna Indian Valley - Rare Virginia find. Kaufman Wickenburg - Arizona find. Goronyo ...and the Smithsonian Catalog of Antarctic Meteorites 1977-1978 Thanks for looking and have a fantastic weekend! Kind regards, ? Mike Bandli www.Astro-Artifacts.com IMCA #5765 ? From rsvp321 at hotmail.com Fri Jul 18 17:18:46 2008 From: rsvp321 at hotmail.com (Pete Pete) Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 17:18:46 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] FW: Mars in 3D In-Reply-To: <193684.93620.qm@web45109.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <193684.93620.qm@web45109.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > Forwarded on behalf of Carl Esparza (carldebtucson at yahoo.com); >> > If you have a back copy of National Geographics magazine August1998 issue it came with 3D glasses to look at Mars in that issue too. > > Carl > > > > > --- On Fri, 7/18/08, Pete Pete wrote: > From: Pete Pete > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mars in 3D > To: "Pete Shugar" , meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Friday, July 18, 2008, 9:44 AM > > > Hi, all, > > Mine are from one of my daughter's old 3D books. > Any craft store, or gift wrapping store selling cellophane sheets will give you > the materials. > > Cheers, > Pete > > > > >> From: pshugar at clearwire.net >> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 10:36:08 -0500 >> Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars in 3D >> >> I guess I'm outa luck as I only have 2D glasses. >> Where do you find the 3D glasses? I should have >> saved mine from when I was a kid back in prehistoric >> times. >> Pete >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > _________________________________________________________________ > If you like crossword puzzles, then you'll love Flexicon, a game which > combines four overlapping crossword puzzles into one! > http://g.msn.ca/ca55/208 > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _________________________________________________________________ Find hidden words, unscramble celebrity names, or try the ultimate crossword puzzle with Live Search Games. Play now! http://g.msn.ca/ca55/212 From armandoafonso at oniduo.pt Thu Jul 17 14:39:41 2008 From: armandoafonso at oniduo.pt (Armando Afonso) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 19:39:41 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] meteorite hunting in Western Australia In-Reply-To: <487F8F0D.3080201@acc.umu.se> References: <48760B52.60501@acc.umu.se> <4876A325.6050608@optushome.com.au><4877B3BD.5020507@acc.umu.se> <487F8F0D.3080201@acc.umu.se> Message-ID: <81630AE212BA4057BD4506D73351C517@ArmandoPC> Museum??? I thought that the right place for those things was ebay. Scratch, scratch... AA ----- Original Message ----- From: "G?ran Axelsson" To: "Meteorite List" Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 7:27 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] meteorite hunting in Western Australia > Thanks for all the tips about Western Australian meteorites and tektites. > I haven't answered most of the mails I got, I'm a bit sporadically > connected to the net while on the road but I read all and appreciate them. > I have taken your advice in consideration. > > Advices ranged from "you are not allowed to touch them" to "Strange rocks > are okay to collect"... even from one of the staff of the Perth Museum. > "Put it in your pocket and don't tell anyone" was his reply... and then he > laughed, "I've been in the desert all my life and I've never seen a > meteorite. Good luck!" > > I will still go east to see Kalgoorlie and the mining towns in the desert. > I will hunt for some australites and see if I can find any good mineral > collecting places. Dig for some gold and just have a nice time. If I > happens to stumble onto a suspected meteorite then I have to decide if I > just leave it or bring it back to the museum. So far none have been able > to cite the law so all I have is advice... guess it all boils down to > common sense. > I have a GPS, extra batteries, zip lock bags and a pen to mark the bags. > So if I happens to find a meteorite then I can take good care of it and > deliver it to the museum. > > /Goran > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Fri Jul 18 18:20:09 2008 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 18 Jul 2008 22:20:09 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars in 3D Message-ID: Carl wrote: "If you have a back copy of National Geographics magazine August1998 issue it came with 3D glasses to look at Mars in that issue too." One of the Sky & Telescope back issues came with 3D goggles too, but, unfortunately, I don't remember which issue it was :-( Bernd From markh5 at cox.net Fri Jul 18 19:30:57 2008 From: markh5 at cox.net (Mark Hodges) Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 19:30:57 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars in 3D In-Reply-To: <58893.71.226.60.25.1216379648.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> References: <200807172325.QAA06734@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> <58893.71.226.60.25.1216379648.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> Message-ID: <488127B1.2030606@cox.net> Thanks, that was just too cool!!! Mark lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu wrote: > Hi All: > > > I do not think that I have seen this posted. > > Get out your 3D glasses for some neat views of the surface of Mars from > the Phoenix lander. > > > http://uanews.org/node/20619 > > Larry > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.2/1561 - Release Date: 7/18/2008 6:35 PM > > > > From m42protosun at aol.com Fri Jul 18 20:41:46 2008 From: m42protosun at aol.com (m42protosun at aol.com) Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 20:41:46 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Maps of Sikhote Alin Area Message-ID: <8CAB74F5B686374-F9C-170B@WEBMAIL-MA12.sysops.aol.com> Hi listoids, I have remake from russian documentation some maps of Sikhote Alin meteorite impact diistrict. If interested look at http://s345.photobucket.com/albums/p384/m42protosun/ Uwe ________________________________________________________________________ AOL eMail auf Ihrem Handy! Ab sofort k?nnen Sie auch unterwegs Ihre AOL email abrufen. Registrieren Sie sich jetzt kostenlos. From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com Fri Jul 18 22:09:08 2008 From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold) Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 19:09:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] trade offer Message-ID: <643189.40381.qm@web57809.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hello list.I hope all are fine tonight.I have a 110 gram slice of allende for trade.I am looking for a nice size taza iron.Email off list. chicago steve From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Fri Jul 18 22:16:18 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 19:16:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Phoenix Mars Lander Continues Tests with Rasp Message-ID: <200807190216.TAA18001@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/phoenix/release.php?ArticleID=1794 Nasa's Phoenix Mars Lander Continues Tests with Rasp Jet Propulsion Laboratory July 18, 2008 TUCSON, Ariz. -- The team operating NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander plans to tell the lander today to do a second, larger test of using a motorized rasp to produce and gather shavings of frozen ground. The planned test is a preparation for putting a similar sample into one of Phoenix's laboratory ovens in coming days. The instrument with the oven, the Thermal and Evolved- Gas Analyzer (TEGA), will be used to check whether the hard layer exposed in a shallow trench is indeed rich in water ice, as scientists expect, and to identify some other ingredients in the frozen soil. The rasp flings some of the shavings that it produces directly into an opening on the back of the scoop at the end of the lander's robotic arm. The test planned for today differs in several ways from the first test of the rasp on Mars, on July 15. "First, we will scrape the terrain before rasping, to expose fresh terrain for sampling," said Richard Volpe of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif., an engineer for the Phoenix robotic arm team. "Second, we will rasp four times in a row, twice the amount previously.Third, the scoop blade will be run across the rasp holes to pick up as much of the tailings as possible." The test area is in the bottom of a trench about 5 centimeters (2 inches) deep, informally named "Snow White," which is also the planned site for acquiring an icy sample for the TEGA instrument. The team wants to be sure to be able to collect and deliver the sample quickly, and early in the Martian morning, in order to minimize the amount of ice lost to vaporization before the material is sealed into the oven. Today's plans include using the Robotic Arm Camera to check repeatedly for any changes in the collected sample during seven hours after getting it into the scoop. The Phoenix mission is led by Peter Smith of the University of Arizona with project management at JPL and development partnership at Lockheed Martin, Denver. International contributions come from the Canadian Space Agency; the University of Neuchatel; the universities of Copenhagen and Aarhus, Denmark; Max Planck Institute, Germany; and the Finnish Meteorological Institute. For more about Phoenix, visit: http://www.nasa.gov/phoenix and http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu. Media contacts: Guy Webster 818-354-6278 Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. guy.webster at jpl.nasa.gov Sara Hammond 520-626-1974 University of Arizona, Tucson shammond at lpl.arizona.edu Dwayne Brown 202-358-1726 NASA Headquarters dwayne.c.brown at nasa.gov From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Fri Jul 18 22:20:27 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 19:20:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars Odyssey THEMIS Images: July 14-18, 2008 Message-ID: <200807190220.TAA19004@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> MARS ODYSSEY THEMIS IMAGES July 14-18, 2008 o THEMIS ART #89 (Released 14 July 2008) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20080714a o THEMIS ART #90 (Released 15 July 2008) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20080715a o THEMIS ART #91 (Released 16 July 2008) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20080716a o THEMIS ART #92 (Released 17 July 2008) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20080717a o THEMIS ART #93 (Released 18 July 2008) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20080718a All of the THEMIS images are archived here: http://themis.asu.edu/latest.html NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory manages the 2001 Mars Odyssey mission for NASA's Office of Space Science, Washington, D.C. The Thermal Emission Imaging System (THEMIS) was developed by Arizona State University, Tempe, in co.oration with Raytheon Santa Barbara Remote Sensing. The THEMIS investigation is led by Dr. Philip Christensen at Arizona State University. Lockheed Martin Astronautics, Denver, is the prime contractor for the Odyssey project, and developed and built the orbiter. Mission operations are conducted jointly from Lockheed Martin and from JPL, a division of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena. From h3chondrite at cox.net Fri Jul 18 23:41:04 2008 From: h3chondrite at cox.net (JKGwilliam) Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 20:41:04 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] trade offer In-Reply-To: <643189.40381.qm@web57809.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <643189.40381.qm@web57809.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20080719034142.GILR774.fed1rmmtao105.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> What's the price on the Allende slice? John At 07:09 PM 7/18/2008, steve arnold wrote: >Hello list.I hope all are fine tonight.I have a 110 gram slice of >allende for trade.I am looking for a nice size taza iron.Email off list. > > > > > > > > > > > > > chicago steve > > > >______________________________________________ >http://www.meteoritecentral.com >Meteorite-list mailing list >Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From geoking at notkin.net Sat Jul 19 00:11:10 2008 From: geoking at notkin.net (Notkin) Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 21:11:10 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Tomorrow in History + AMNH NYC Message-ID: Dear Listees: Greetings comrades from Tucson. It's been a pretty mild summer so far by our standards. I think 106F is the record to date : ) That's nothing for Tucson. I happened to be looking at one of those "Today in History" things this evening and found it interesting to note that tomorrow, July 19, is both the 96th anniversary of the great Holbrook fall (1912) and also the day that Apollo 11, carrying the mighty Eagle module went into lunar orbit -- that was 1969 for you youngsters who weren't glued to their TV sets back then. Of course, I was just wee lad myself at the time : ) So many List members have hunted at Holbrook -- I can think of at least twenty without even trying -- that it's a happy anniversary to mark. I often remember how our much-missed colleague the late, great Jim Kriegh would go up there on his own for a few days and come back with more pieces from one visit than I found in five trips. Kinda sad to think that Jim's house, just up the road from me, is now occupied by a non-meteorite hunter. I was in NYC recently -- my first visit in over four years -- and took some time to visit the AMNH and check out the "new" meteorite exhibit. For the most part it is really spectacular. I can imagine one of the designers saying: "You know that show 'Star Trek: Next Generation'? Well, we should make the display look like the bridge from that ship." The hall is very dark, with big ole' 31-ton Ahnighito sitting there in the middle on a raised circular stage, with one stellar iron after another arranged around it. On view is a truly gorgeous Glorieta Mountain siderite, covered in thumbprints and caramel patina, which I know will make a few GM hunters (myself included) almost insanely jealous : ) There is a cool diorama of Canyon Diablo, and all kinds of amazing, assorted goodies in vertical cases on the walls. I found the glass cases a little small and crowded, but the meteorites are so fabulous, who really cares? Many of you will, no doubt, have seen the "new" hall, which is, I suppose, already a few years old, but even after many years living in NYC it was a first for me. A fine afternoon spent there, and also visiting my favorite Allosaurus in the dinosaur halls. Highly recommended to anyone passing through the Big, Bad Apple. Enjoy your weekend, and kind regards to all from The Baked Apple. Respectfully, Geoff N. www.aerolite.org www.campometeorites.com From meteorite at e-arts.fr Sat Jul 19 02:48:39 2008 From: meteorite at e-arts.fr (=?iso-8859-1?Q?M=E9t=E9orite_Internet_Arts?=) Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 08:48:39 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] XXL LDG References: <643189.40381.qm@web57809.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002d01c8e96b$7ab53e90$1401a8c0@earts> Dear List Members, If you are looking for a large Libyan dessert Glass 2680 grammes, with a nice display, please check the pictures of my Ebay auction Item Number: 320275798315 Regards from south of France, Arnaud VB From chinaren76 at yahoo.com Sat Jul 19 05:22:19 2008 From: chinaren76 at yahoo.com (Ma Lan) Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 02:22:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD One nice piece of Zunhua for sale Message-ID: <235533.71540.qm@web52707.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi Listees, I offer one fragment of Zunhua, the newest Chinese "Hammer" for sale. For photos of this piece, see here, http://fb.esnips.com/web/Zunhua172grams Weight: 17.2g; Size: 3.5 cm X 2.5 cm X 2.0 cm approx.; 30-40% FC with striking beauty, very rare; Price: $5160 If interested, contact me off-list, thanks. Best wishes to all, Ma Lan Beijing China IMCA #8234 From michael at spacerocksinc.com Sat Jul 19 07:29:27 2008 From: michael at spacerocksinc.com (Michael Johnson) Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 04:29:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - July 19, 2008 Message-ID: <32248142.103471216466967615.JavaMail.root@mbs4.homesteadmail.com> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/July_19_2008.html From meteoriteshow at free.fr Sat Jul 19 13:01:56 2008 From: meteoriteshow at free.fr (Meteoriteshow) Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 17:01:56 -0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Website Updates & new goodies for sale Message-ID: <00aa01c8e9c1$2722c850$0100a8c0@T42> Dear All, After almost a year during which i have been very quiet, i am now trying to be back to my meteorite collection. If i have not been able to attend the Ensisheim show this year again, i am planning to be back there next year for the 10th anniversary of the show. I was at Ste Marie aux Mines where i could see some of our friends and will definitely do my best to attend that show next year again. But in the meantime i have updated my website with some new meteorites that i have purchased in Morocco and offer for sale: 1/ A selection of beautiful unclassified ordinary chondrites, complete or almost complete individuals with fusion crust carefully chosen, with some of them oriented. You can have a look at: http://meteoriteshow.free.fr/meteoriteshow%20fra/pages%20navigation/pieces_en_vente_OCs-fra.htm 2/ I also have some nice CHERGACH individuals for sale, ranging from very small sizes up to almost 250g. This witnessed fall is really beautiful with huge metal flakes appearing sometimes through the fusion crust and some individuals showing some clear signs of a high shock level (slickensides). You can see the pieces that i am offering at: http://meteoriteshow.free.fr/meteoriteshow%20fra/pages%20navigation/pieces_en_vente_Chergach-fra.htm 3/ Finally i have purchased a very fresh Howardite in Morocco, which is currently under examination for classification by Dr Barrat in France. It was really not easy to cut it because of its very soft matrix and the much harder cristals of pyroxene but i managed to get some slices, partslices and 1 endcut for sale, that can be seen at: http://meteoriteshow.free.fr/meteoriteshow%20fra/pages%20navigation/pieces_en_vente_NWA-XXX-HOWARDITE-fra.htm Of course i will keep any buyer informed about the results of the classification of this beauty and send later on updated authenticity certificates. In the meantime it is coming with a provisional "NWA XXX" certificate. Should you have any question, please feel free to contact me by e-mail. Thanks for looking and all the best, Frederic Beroud www.meteoriteshow.com IMCA #2491 From wahlperry at aol.com Sat Jul 19 14:58:16 2008 From: wahlperry at aol.com (wahlperry at aol.com) Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 14:58:16 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Coyote Springs Specimen card Message-ID: <8CAB7E8892A7264-A28-86B@webmail-nc03.sysops.aol.com> Hi, Whoever contacted me for the specimen card for Coyote Springs please contact off list. It's finally done. Thanks, Sonny From ensoramanda at ntlworld.com Sat Jul 19 15:03:24 2008 From: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com (ensoramanda) Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 20:03:24 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Tomorrow in History + AMNH NYC/meteorite excursions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48823A7C.6070200@ntlworld.com> Hi Geoff, Greetings from a cool summer in the UK. Lots of heavy rain showers at the moment...great for preserving my collection!!! Missed out on my planned Holbrook visit when I came to the Tucson show as it was blowing a blizzard up there when I arrived...perhaps next time. Also didnt get down to see the meteorites in NY last time we went to my nephew at MIT ...they're all on my list. Sounds like a great display. Did however get to see the displays at both the Adelaide and Perth museums in Oz at Christmas...awsome irons...and got to the Henbury craters and near to lots of other famous falls down under...found a good memorial to the Cranboune meteorites south of Melbourne too...a good article here. http://www.casey.vic.gov.au/meteorite/article.asp?Item=3059 ....we had quite an expedition. Just arrived back from a couple of weeks in Morocco on holiday...now that was hot! Erfoud, Rassini and Merzouga were scorching, and many sandstorms...but had a great time. Lots of people trying to sell meteorwrongs...basically any rock that stuck to a magnet. I think many were genuinely convinced they had meteorites and were quite interested to compare them with the genuine article when I showed them some pieces. Didnt manage to meet any of the folks who emailed me with advice and details from the list though...just mistimed everything....but did see some interesting material though...word soon got around and people turned up with pieces... a couple of great oriented achondrites that looked like eucrites to me, both over 1kg! Some nice Bassikounou and Taza sculpted pieces, other achondrites that looked like Howardites and Diogenites with a few carbonaceous pieces too. No real bargains though as far as I could make out...but then I'm not a dealer and not the best at bartering! That illusive rare lunar didnt jump out of the desert at me either! Unless the strange piece I picked up does turn out to be special...but I doubt it. If anyone wants to see any shots of some of these let me know...and I will send them or post them somewhere if there is a lot of interest. Anyway...another meteorite related excursion ticked off the list...quite an experience visiting the country where a vast majority of the finds have come from. Anyone else out there been on any interesting meteorite excursions recently? Best regards, Graham Ensor, UK Notkin wrote: > Dear Listees: > > Greetings comrades from Tucson. It's been a pretty mild summer so far > by our standards. I think 106F is the record to date : ) That's > nothing for Tucson. > > I happened to be looking at one of those "Today in History" things > this evening and found it interesting to note that tomorrow, July 19, > is both the 96th anniversary of the great Holbrook fall (1912) and > also the day that Apollo 11, carrying the mighty Eagle module went > into lunar orbit -- that was 1969 for you youngsters who weren't > glued to their TV sets back then. Of course, I was just wee lad > myself at the time : ) > > So many List members have hunted at Holbrook -- I can think of at > least twenty without even trying -- that it's a happy anniversary to > mark. I often remember how our much-missed colleague the late, great > Jim Kriegh would go up there on his own for a few days and come back > with more pieces from one visit than I found in five trips. Kinda sad > to think that Jim's house, just up the road from me, is now occupied > by a non-meteorite hunter. > > I was in NYC recently -- my first visit in over four years -- and > took some time to visit the AMNH and check out the "new" meteorite > exhibit. For the most part it is really spectacular. I can imagine > one of the designers saying: "You know that show 'Star Trek: Next > Generation'? Well, we should make the display look like the bridge > from that ship." The hall is very dark, with big ole' 31-ton > Ahnighito sitting there in the middle on a raised circular stage, > with one stellar iron after another arranged around it. On view is a > truly gorgeous Glorieta Mountain siderite, covered in thumbprints and > caramel patina, which I know will make a few GM hunters (myself > included) almost insanely jealous : ) There is a cool diorama of > Canyon Diablo, and all kinds of amazing, assorted goodies in vertical > cases on the walls. I found the glass cases a little small and > crowded, but the meteorites are so fabulous, who really cares? > > Many of you will, no doubt, have seen the "new" hall, which is, I > suppose, already a few years old, but even after many years living in > NYC it was a first for me. A fine afternoon spent there, and also > visiting my favorite Allosaurus in the dinosaur halls. Highly > recommended to anyone passing through the Big, Bad Apple. > > Enjoy your weekend, and kind regards to all from The Baked Apple. > > > Respectfully, > > Geoff N. > > www.aerolite.org > www.campometeorites.com > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: > 270.5.2/1562 - Release Date: 19/07/2008 14:01 > > > From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Sat Jul 19 15:27:47 2008 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 19 Jul 2008 19:27:47 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] Chergach (a.k.a Erg Chech, Mali) Message-ID: Hello Listees, Listoids and Chergach owners, Meanwhile there are 7 Chergach (H5) specimens + one thin section in my collection. Five of these (+ that thin section) were purchased from Philippe Thomas, one comes from Andi Gren, one endcut is from Mirko Graul. Well, when I look at the impact melt slice I purchased from Andi, the H5 classification is quite obvious because chondrules are sparse and hard to locate in those lighter-colored areas that are surrounded by the dark, in some areas vesicular, melt flows. But when I look at that cut specimen from Philippe and the endcut I got from Mirko today, I have a hard time believing this should be an H5. Chondrules are so closely packed in the bluish gray matrix areas that you might think you are looking at an H3 or an H4 chondrite. Wouldn't an H3-5 or an H4-5 classification be more appropriate? Any input highly appreciated! Bernd From STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com Sat Jul 19 17:08:24 2008 From: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com (STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com) Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 17:08:24 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] A million $ rock on eBay Message-ID: Hi list, Check this rock out. It is eBay # 320275545235 and it is offered at one million $. It looks like a slice of concrete but what do I know. Speaking of which, I just took a photo of a dynamite meteor wrong. It is a piece of concrete that was freshly coated in tar with a broken face. Surprisingly eye catching. Both the parking lot and this stone look great! Email me if you would get a kick out of this photo. Tom Phillips **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) From midwest at meteorman.org Sat Jul 19 19:48:24 2008 From: midwest at meteorman.org (Timothy Heitz) Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 16:48:24 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Tomorrow in History + AMNH NYC References: Message-ID: <39A0CCC817B7445883A1B6DCF8AD7E77@den> Thanks for sharing, stay cool:) Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Notkin" To: "Meteorite List" Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 9:11 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Tomorrow in History + AMNH NYC > Dear Listees: > > Greetings comrades from Tucson. It's been a pretty mild summer so far > by our standards. I think 106F is the record to date : ) That's > nothing for Tucson. > > I happened to be looking at one of those "Today in History" things > this evening and found it interesting to note that tomorrow, July 19, > is both the 96th anniversary of the great Holbrook fall (1912) and > also the day that Apollo 11, carrying the mighty Eagle module went > into lunar orbit -- that was 1969 for you youngsters who weren't glued > to their TV sets back then. Of course, I was just wee lad myself at > the time : ) > > So many List members have hunted at Holbrook -- I can think of at > least twenty without even trying -- that it's a happy anniversary to > mark. I often remember how our much-missed colleague the late, great > Jim Kriegh would go up there on his own for a few days and come back > with more pieces from one visit than I found in five trips. Kinda sad > to think that Jim's house, just up the road from me, is now occupied > by a non-meteorite hunter. > > I was in NYC recently -- my first visit in over four years -- and took > some time to visit the AMNH and check out the "new" meteorite exhibit. > For the most part it is really spectacular. I can imagine one of the > designers saying: "You know that show 'Star Trek: Next Generation'? > Well, we should make the display look like the bridge from that ship." > The hall is very dark, with big ole' 31-ton Ahnighito sitting there in > the middle on a raised circular stage, with one stellar iron after > another arranged around it. On view is a truly gorgeous Glorieta > Mountain siderite, covered in thumbprints and caramel patina, which I > know will make a few GM hunters (myself included) almost insanely > jealous : ) There is a cool diorama of Canyon Diablo, and all kinds > of amazing, assorted goodies in vertical cases on the walls. I found > the glass cases a little small and crowded, but the meteorites are so > fabulous, who really cares? > > Many of you will, no doubt, have seen the "new" hall, which is, I > suppose, already a few years old, but even after many years living in > NYC it was a first for me. A fine afternoon spent there, and also > visiting my favorite Allosaurus in the dinosaur halls. Highly > recommended to anyone passing through the Big, Bad Apple. > > Enjoy your weekend, and kind regards to all from The Baked Apple. > > > Respectfully, > > Geoff N. > > www.aerolite.org > www.campometeorites.com > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From daistiho at hotmail.com Sat Jul 19 18:11:26 2008 From: daistiho at hotmail.com (tracy latimer) Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 22:11:26 +0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] A million $ rock on eBay In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I took a look; it does look like a piece of regular ol' concrete to me. The seller supposedly lives just up the hill from me on Maui. I wonder what he would say if I offered to come up there with my nickel testing kit and check it out?>:-) I further wonder if he's one of the several crackpots I know from first hand experience; something about the air at the mile-high level on Haleakala seems to addle brains. Best! Tracy Latimer > From: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com > Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 17:08:24 -0400 > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: [meteorite-list] A million $ rock on eBay > > Hi list, Check this rock out. It is eBay # 320275545235 and it is offered > at one million $. > > It looks like a slice of concrete but what do I know. > > Speaking of which, I just took a photo of a dynamite meteor wrong. It is a > piece of concrete that was freshly coated in tar with a broken face. > Surprisingly eye catching. Both the parking lot and this stone look great! > > Email me if you would get a kick out of this photo. > > Tom Phillips > > > > > **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for > FanHouse Fantasy Football today. > (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _________________________________________________________________ Keep your kids safer online with Windows Live Family Safety. http://www.windowslive.com/family_safety/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_family_safety_072008 From rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com Sat Jul 19 18:12:13 2008 From: rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com (Rob McCafferty) Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 15:12:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] A million $ rock on eBay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <796307.69320.qm@web55206.mail.re4.yahoo.com> If, as quoted in the description, a picture is worth a thousand words, you'd imagine them putting a better picture. Mind you, with perfectly rectangular clasts, that's got to be a one off :P I could find a thousand words to describe it. I'd just need to look up "rubbish" and all its synonyms in a thesaurus. Cordially, Rob McC --- On Sat, 7/19/08, STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com wrote: > From: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com > Subject: [meteorite-list] A million $ rock on eBay > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Saturday, July 19, 2008, 10:08 PM > Hi list, Check this rock out. It is eBay # 320275545235 > and it is offered > at one million $. > > It looks like a slice of concrete but what do I know. > > Speaking of which, I just took a photo of a dynamite > meteor wrong. It is a > piece of concrete that was freshly coated in tar with a > broken face. > Surprisingly eye catching. Both the parking lot and this > stone look great! > > Email me if you would get a kick out of this photo. > > Tom Phillips > > > > > **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. > Sign up for > FanHouse Fantasy Football today. > (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From pshugar at clearwire.net Sat Jul 19 18:14:54 2008 From: pshugar at clearwire.net (Pete Shugar) Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 17:14:54 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] A million $ rock on eBay References: <796307.69320.qm@web55206.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <003501c8e9ec$e0d3cdf0$0201a8c0@portable> My sentiments exactly!!!!!!! Pete From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Sat Jul 19 18:12:56 2008 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 19 Jul 2008 22:12:56 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] Chergach (a.k.a. Erg Chech, Mali) Message-ID: I wrote: "Meanwhile there are 7 Chergach (H5) specimens" Correction: Now there are eight Chergachs ;-) See here if interested: EBay Item #290247162435 Good night, it's once again late here => 00:15 hrs Bernd From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Sat Jul 19 19:57:25 2008 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 16:57:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] A million $ rock on eBay In-Reply-To: <796307.69320.qm@web55206.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <657399.56845.qm@web33101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> You know what I find interesting, every time a fake meteorite is posted on here, there is an uproar, tons of interest. When a real new meteorite or a fall is posted, the silence is most often deafening. Michael Farmer --- On Sat, 7/19/08, Rob McCafferty wrote: > From: Rob McCafferty > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A million $ rock on eBay > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Saturday, July 19, 2008, 4:12 PM > If, as quoted in the description, a picture is worth a > thousand words, you'd imagine them putting a better > picture. > Mind you, with perfectly rectangular clasts, that's got > to be a one off :P > > I could find a thousand words to describe it. I'd just > need to look up "rubbish" and all its synonyms in > a thesaurus. > > Cordially, Rob McC > > > --- On Sat, 7/19/08, STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com > wrote: > > > From: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com > > > Subject: [meteorite-list] A million $ rock on eBay > > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > Date: Saturday, July 19, 2008, 10:08 PM > > Hi list, Check this rock out. It is eBay # > 320275545235 > > and it is offered > > at one million $. > > > > It looks like a slice of concrete but what do I know. > > > > > Speaking of which, I just took a photo of a dynamite > > meteor wrong. It is a > > piece of concrete that was freshly coated in tar with > a > > broken face. > > Surprisingly eye catching. Both the parking lot and > this > > stone look great! > > > > Email me if you would get a kick out of this photo. > > > > Tom Phillips > > > > > > > > > > **************Get fantasy football with free live > scoring. > > Sign up for > > FanHouse Fantasy Football today. > > > (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com Sat Jul 19 20:22:22 2008 From: rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com (Rob McCafferty) Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 17:22:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] A million $ rock on eBay In-Reply-To: <657399.56845.qm@web33101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <249305.10254.qm@web55203.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Michael Though what you say is true, I can appreciate why I trust the information from this list. I'm sure many others do. If you tell me you've a new meteorite, I believe you. I'm not likely to ask anything more than the information you'd tell me anyway. If someone points out a meteorwrong, it's no surprise that there are a lot of people (a lot less experienced than you) who want to know how to spot the latest junk. I know I'm one of them. Take it as a complement that people trust your announcements rather than thinking lack of response is lack of interest. Maybe you should reannounce it at 2-4 week intervals. Would people mind the repetition? Well one thing's for sure, they'd tell you. I'm sure as eggs is eggs interested. If it makes you feel better, I'll stir up a bit of controversy to get people talking about the newest finds. (I won't really) Rob McC --- On Sun, 7/20/08, Michael Farmer wrote: > From: Michael Farmer > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A million $ rock on eBay > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com > Date: Sunday, July 20, 2008, 12:57 AM > You know what I find interesting, every time a fake > meteorite is posted on here, there is an uproar, tons of > interest. When a real new meteorite or a fall is posted, > the silence is most often deafening. > Michael Farmer > > > --- On Sat, 7/19/08, Rob McCafferty > wrote: > > > From: Rob McCafferty > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A million $ rock on eBay > > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > Date: Saturday, July 19, 2008, 4:12 PM > > If, as quoted in the description, a picture is worth a > > thousand words, you'd imagine them putting a > better > > picture. > > Mind you, with perfectly rectangular clasts, > that's got > > to be a one off :P > > > > I could find a thousand words to describe it. I'd > just > > need to look up "rubbish" and all its > synonyms in > > a thesaurus. > > > > Cordially, Rob McC > > > > > > --- On Sat, 7/19/08, STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com > > wrote: > > > > > From: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com > > > > > Subject: [meteorite-list] A million $ rock on > eBay > > > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > Date: Saturday, July 19, 2008, 10:08 PM > > > Hi list, Check this rock out. It is eBay # > > 320275545235 > > > and it is offered > > > at one million $. > > > > > > It looks like a slice of concrete but what do I > know. > > > > > > > > Speaking of which, I just took a photo of a > dynamite > > > meteor wrong. It is a > > > piece of concrete that was freshly coated in tar > with > > a > > > broken face. > > > Surprisingly eye catching. Both the parking lot > and > > this > > > stone look great! > > > > > > Email me if you would get a kick out of this > photo. > > > > > > Tom Phillips > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **************Get fantasy football with free live > > scoring. > > > Sign up for > > > FanHouse Fantasy Football today. > > > > > > (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) > > > ______________________________________________ > > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From stanleygregr at yahoo.com Sat Jul 19 20:34:43 2008 From: stanleygregr at yahoo.com (greg stanley) Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 17:34:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] best way to glue meteorite together Message-ID: <758680.63805.qm@web52307.mail.re2.yahoo.com> All: What is the best way to attach or (glue) pieces of a. Meteorite together without causing damage? I want to be able to attach broken pieces together. Any thoughts... Perhaps putty or some type of temp. glue. Thanks, Greg S From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Sat Jul 19 20:45:54 2008 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 17:45:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] And yet Another Carancas Article (w/ Pics) - Geotimes In-Reply-To: <486370.34466.qm@web80203.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <176161.2869.qm@web33108.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Fantastic article. I was lucky enough to get to preview this from Dr Jackson some weeks ago. Michael Farmer --- On Thu, 7/17/08, Frank Cressy wrote: > From: Frank Cressy > Subject: [meteorite-list] And yet Another Carancas Article (w/ Pics) - Geotimes > To: "meteoritelist" > Date: Thursday, July 17, 2008, 8:29 AM > Hello all, > > Here's anpther article on Carancas from the magazine > Geotimes by Lionel E. Jackson Jr., Peter Brown, Jay > Melosh and Dolores Hill. Very well done. > > http://www.geotimes.org/july08/article.html?id=feature_meteorite.html > > If the link doesn't work you can see it at: > www.geotimes.org > > Enjoy, > > Frank > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mojave_meteorites at cox.net Sat Jul 19 21:02:24 2008 From: mojave_meteorites at cox.net (Rob Matson) Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 18:02:24 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] And yet Another Carancas Article (w/ Pics) -Geotimes In-Reply-To: <176161.2869.qm@web33108.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I thoroughly agree -- well-written, broad article on the Carancas fall with good pictures and a nice sidebar on meteorite classification. (Like Mike, I was kindly given a preview of the article by Dr. Melosh last month.) I'm even more anxious to read technical papers on the Carancas samples themselves (one or more of which may already be in the peer-review stage). If you think everything you've heard and read about the Carancas fall is already 3-sigma weird, wait 'til the cosmochemistry results are out. --Rob -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com]On Behalf Of Michael Farmer Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2008 5:46 PM To: meteoritelist; Frank Cressy Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] And yet Another Carancas Article (w/ Pics) -Geotimes Fantastic article. I was lucky enough to get to preview this from Dr Jackson some weeks ago. Michael Farmer --- On Thu, 7/17/08, Frank Cressy wrote: > From: Frank Cressy > Subject: [meteorite-list] And yet Another Carancas Article (w/ Pics) - Geotimes > To: "meteoritelist" > Date: Thursday, July 17, 2008, 8:29 AM > Hello all, > > Here's anpther article on Carancas from the magazine > Geotimes by Lionel E. Jackson Jr., Peter Brown, Jay > Melosh and Dolores Hill. Very well done. > > http://www.geotimes.org/july08/article.html?id=feature_meteorite.html > > If the link doesn't work you can see it at: > www.geotimes.org > > Enjoy, > > Frank From cynapse at charter.net Sat Jul 19 21:12:34 2008 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 21:12:34 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] best way to glue meteorite together In-Reply-To: <758680.63805.qm@web52307.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <758680.63805.qm@web52307.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 17:34:43 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: >All: > >What is the best way to attach or (glue) pieces of a. Meteorite together without causing damage? I want to be able to attach broken pieces together. > >Any thoughts... Perhaps putty or some type of temp. glue. I've only glued a meteorite once-- a complete, finger-shaped (and sized) 869 that I wanted to wear on a lanyard. Got the hole drilled most of the way through it, it broke in two. I used regular Superglue (or it's generic equal) and it has held firm ever since. Doesn't even look broken. (Might want to spring for the gel version). From mmurray at montrose.net Sat Jul 19 21:04:59 2008 From: mmurray at montrose.net (Michael Murray) Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 19:04:59 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] A million $ rock on eBay In-Reply-To: <657399.56845.qm@web33101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <657399.56845.qm@web33101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Mike, List, I've noticed that too but I can't necessarily fault anyone for that. I do admire all finds and falls shared on the Met-List but some I just enjoy the accounts or the pictures offered and don't feel the need to offer any commentary. Believe me, I am soaking it all up though. Or, at least as much as my antiquated mind will allow. Fact is, I truly appreciate it when someone shares pictures or information about their latest find. I also appreciate the effort that went into the recovery. To be honest, I find the wrongs interesting too. Its a comparison thing I guess. I learn from them. Mike in CO On Jul 19, 2008, at 5:57 PM, Michael Farmer wrote: > You know what I find interesting, every time a fake meteorite is > posted on here, there is an uproar, tons of interest. When a real > new meteorite or a fall is posted, the silence is most often > deafening. > Michael Farmer > > > --- On Sat, 7/19/08, Rob McCafferty wrote: > >> From: Rob McCafferty >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A million $ rock on eBay >> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> Date: Saturday, July 19, 2008, 4:12 PM >> If, as quoted in the description, a picture is worth a >> thousand words, you'd imagine them putting a better >> picture. >> Mind you, with perfectly rectangular clasts, that's got >> to be a one off :P >> >> I could find a thousand words to describe it. I'd just >> need to look up "rubbish" and all its synonyms in >> a thesaurus. >> >> Cordially, Rob McC >> >> >> --- On Sat, 7/19/08, STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com >> wrote: >> >>> From: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com >> >>> Subject: [meteorite-list] A million $ rock on eBay >>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> Date: Saturday, July 19, 2008, 10:08 PM >>> Hi list, Check this rock out. It is eBay # >> 320275545235 >>> and it is offered >>> at one million $. >>> >>> It looks like a slice of concrete but what do I know. >> >>> >>> Speaking of which, I just took a photo of a dynamite >>> meteor wrong. It is a >>> piece of concrete that was freshly coated in tar with >> a >>> broken face. >>> Surprisingly eye catching. Both the parking lot and >> this >>> stone look great! >>> >>> Email me if you would get a kick out of this photo. >>> >>> Tom Phillips >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> **************Get fantasy football with free live >> scoring. >>> Sign up for >>> FanHouse Fantasy Football today. >>> >> (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com Sat Jul 19 22:54:13 2008 From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold) Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 19:54:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] bensour Message-ID: <616915.6047.qm@web57807.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi again list.Does anyone have any bensour they would like to sell?100 to 170 gram crusted to near crusted stone?Please let me know offlist. chicago steve From chinaren76 at yahoo.com Sat Jul 19 23:15:51 2008 From: chinaren76 at yahoo.com (Ma Lan) Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 20:15:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] A million $ rock on eBay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <114079.50613.qm@web52703.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi all, Suppose that it were started a bid from just $0.01... Still eye catching? (...of course, A LUN) Still wrong? (...maybe, maybe not) Suppose that. Best, Ma Lan Beijing China --- On Sun, 7/20/08, STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com wrote: > From: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com > Subject: [meteorite-list] A million $ rock on eBay > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Sunday, July 20, 2008, 5:08 AM > Hi list, Check this rock out. It is eBay # 320275545235 > and it is offered > at one million $. > > It looks like a slice of concrete but what do I know. > > Speaking of which, I just took a photo of a dynamite > meteor wrong. It is a > piece of concrete that was freshly coated in tar with a > broken face. > Surprisingly eye catching. Both the parking lot and this > stone look great! > > Email me if you would get a kick out of this photo. > > Tom Phillips > > > > > **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. > Sign up for > FanHouse Fantasy Football today. > (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From deanbessey at yahoo.com Sat Jul 19 23:28:04 2008 From: deanbessey at yahoo.com (dean bessey) Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 20:28:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: LOTS OF BULK NWA EBAY AUCTIONS In-Reply-To: <114079.50613.qm@web52703.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <920900.77637.qm@web56106.mail.re3.yahoo.com> I havent been listing much lately but have recently listed a couple dozen bulk items cheap. Great dealer lots or for somebody cutting. Also, I recently made a deal with the post office and have a new contract with reduced postage cost (Although not quite as low as I have been noting in recent ebay auctions but cheaper anyway). If you go over my older auctions with the old postage rates let me know what ones you are interested in and I can probably quote you a lower postage rate. Postage still starts at $5 but a kilo will cost about half to ship. See my ebay user id AMUNRE Cheers DEAN www.meteoriteshop.com http://stores.ebay.com/DEANS-COLLECTIBLES-AND-GEMSTONES_Meteorites_W0QQcolZ4QQdirZ1QQfsubZ4QQftidZ2QQtZkm From psc2410xi at yahoo.com Sun Jul 20 01:10:11 2008 From: psc2410xi at yahoo.com (Don Rawlings) Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 22:10:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] A million $ rock on eBay In-Reply-To: <657399.56845.qm@web33101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <355901.61451.qm@web59307.mail.re1.yahoo.com> You have been on this list for years. Why should this surprise you? Don Rawlings --- On Sat, 7/19/08, Michael Farmer wrote: > From: Michael Farmer > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A million $ rock on eBay > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com > Date: Saturday, July 19, 2008, 7:57 PM > You know what I find interesting, every time a fake > meteorite is posted on here, there is an uproar, tons of > interest. When a real new meteorite or a fall is posted, > the silence is most often deafening. > Michael Farmer > > > --- On Sat, 7/19/08, Rob McCafferty > wrote: > > > From: Rob McCafferty > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A million $ rock on eBay > > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > Date: Saturday, July 19, 2008, 4:12 PM > > If, as quoted in the description, a picture is worth a > > thousand words, you'd imagine them putting a > better > > picture. > > Mind you, with perfectly rectangular clasts, > that's got > > to be a one off :P > > > > I could find a thousand words to describe it. I'd > just > > need to look up "rubbish" and all its > synonyms in > > a thesaurus. > > > > Cordially, Rob McC > > > > > > --- On Sat, 7/19/08, STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com > > wrote: > > > > > From: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com > > > > > Subject: [meteorite-list] A million $ rock on > eBay > > > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > Date: Saturday, July 19, 2008, 10:08 PM > > > Hi list, Check this rock out. It is eBay # > > 320275545235 > > > and it is offered > > > at one million $. > > > > > > It looks like a slice of concrete but what do I > know. > > > > > > > > Speaking of which, I just took a photo of a > dynamite > > > meteor wrong. It is a > > > piece of concrete that was freshly coated in tar > with > > a > > > broken face. > > > Surprisingly eye catching. Both the parking lot > and > > this > > > stone look great! > > > > > > Email me if you would get a kick out of this > photo. > > > > > > Tom Phillips > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **************Get fantasy football with free live > > scoring. > > > Sign up for > > > FanHouse Fantasy Football today. > > > > > > (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) > > > ______________________________________________ > > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From Metorman46 at aol.com Sun Jul 20 10:54:00 2008 From: Metorman46 at aol.com (Metorman46 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 10:54:00 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] A million $ rock on eBay Message-ID: Hello Mike and list; I personally believe that we are a "captive audience"when a new fall is explored by someone and the adventures are posted on this great meteorite list.Michael says that upon viewing the posts he just enjoys them and feels that commentary isn't necessary,i agree 100%,and also enjoy the reports.If we comment and it is taken the wrong way due to the excitement of the moment then the list will explode into a feeding frenzy against the person making the comment.I think,so best to read and enjoy and hope for a specimen at some time in the future.I think. I for one appreciate your efforts in meteoritics very much,and wish you good fortune and exciting adventures.Thanks to you and other adventurers we enjoy specimens for study and pleasure.THANK YOU VERY MUCH. Best Regards;Herman Archer IMCA # 2770 **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) From Metorman46 at aol.com Sun Jul 20 11:01:34 2008 From: Metorman46 at aol.com (Metorman46 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 11:01:34 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Tomorrow in History + AMNH NYC Message-ID: Hello Geoff; Sounds like you have had and are having a hot and exciting summer.Enjoyed your post very much.Brings back the old days of the beginning of manned space exploration.What a time. Good to hear from you on the list and look forward to more exciting posts,and informative too.Thanks. Best Regards;Herman Archer IMCA # 2770 **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Sun Jul 20 11:27:31 2008 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 08:27:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] A million $ rock on eBay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <403508.80656.qm@web33102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Herman and all, this is not about me, just a comment on the fact that when anyone announces something new, for example, Sonny announced a new R chondrite from the USA, the first ever and something quite special that he found. I watched and there was only silence. I am not saying that everyone on the list needs to comment, that would be nuts, but when these ebay scams are put up, it seems so many people jump on every time. I am just curious why, and some of you have answered your own personal reasons. Enough said. Michael Farmer --- On Sun, 7/20/08, Metorman46 at aol.com wrote: > From: Metorman46 at aol.com > Subject: [meteorite-list] A million $ rock on eBay > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Sunday, July 20, 2008, 8:54 AM > Hello Mike and list; > > I personally believe that we are a "captive > audience"when a new fall is > explored by someone and the adventures are posted on this > great meteorite > list.Michael says that upon viewing the posts he just > enjoys them and feels that > commentary isn't necessary,i agree 100%,and also enjoy > the reports.If we comment > and it is taken the wrong way due to the excitement of the > moment then the > list will explode into a feeding frenzy against the person > making the > comment.I think,so best to read and enjoy and hope for a > specimen at some time in the > future.I think. > > I for one appreciate your efforts in meteoritics very > much,and wish you good > fortune and exciting adventures.Thanks to you and other > adventurers we enjoy > specimens for study and pleasure.THANK YOU VERY MUCH. > > Best Regards;Herman Archer IMCA # 2770 > > > > > **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. > Sign up for > FanHouse Fantasy Football today. > (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mlblood at cox.net Sun Jul 20 15:55:46 2008 From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael L Blood) Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 12:55:46 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] best way to glue meteorite together In-Reply-To: <758680.63805.qm@web52307.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Greg, It depends on the specimen - are you talking about a Whole stone, a thick (5mm to 8mm) slice or partslice, a Thin part or whold slice (2 to 3mm), etc. Whatever it is You can be sure Bill Mason has invented a glue for it. (he developed "paleobond," meteorite cutting fluid you Mix with distilled water and a number of other meteorite Products - not to mention hundreds of other commercial Patens for product development. You can contact him at: Best wishes, Michael on 7/19/08 5:34 PM, greg stanley at stanleygregr at yahoo.com wrote: > All: > > What is the best way to attach or (glue) pieces of a. Meteorite together > without causing damage? I want to be able to attach broken pieces together. > > Any thoughts... Perhaps putty or some type of temp. glue. > > Thanks, > > Greg S > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a car. From meteoritemall at yahoo.com Sun Jul 20 17:56:38 2008 From: meteoritemall at yahoo.com (Ruben Garcia) Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 14:56:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Toluca Meteorite with quartz Message-ID: <428268.99573.qm@web32501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi all, Take a look at this ebay auction. None of the pictures looks like any Toluca meteorite that I've ever seen, and some of the pictures show what looks like quartz! http://cgi.ebay.com/IRON-METEORITE-TOLUCA-3330-GRAMS-JIQUIPILCO-MEXICO_W0QQitemZ180265923155QQihZ008QQcategoryZ3239QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Ruben Garcia Phoenix, Arizona http://www.mr-meteorite.com http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=meteorfright&p=v From gessler at ucla.edu Sun Jul 20 18:07:11 2008 From: gessler at ucla.edu (Nicholas Gessler) Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 15:07:11 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] best way to glue meteorite together Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20080720150641.079042c8@ucla.edu> Oops, I sent this directly to Greg, but intended to send it to the list as well... Hi Greg, Bond 527 (available at Michael's) is a good reversible glue. You can dissolve it with acetone. But be aware, acetone is not friendly. In the museum conservation field, reversibility is what you're after. You can glue it together, and then take it apart if you need to. As for how to do it, as an archaeologist some time back, and having glued many pieces of Primm together, I would suggest a "sand box." Sand will allow you to balance the pieces so that they dry without falling out of position. And as to where to start, try fitting several pieces together by hand. Figure out which ones need to be glued together first so that you don't end up with a piece that won't go in. Have fun, Nick From deanbessey at yahoo.com Sun Jul 20 18:22:06 2008 From: deanbessey at yahoo.com (dean bessey) Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 15:22:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Drilling meteorites to make jewelry In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20080720150641.079042c8@ucla.edu> Message-ID: <45227.69972.qm@web56107.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Does anybody know of a good type of drill to drill small holes through chondrites? Thanks DEAN From tbear1 at cableone.net Sun Jul 20 18:34:12 2008 From: tbear1 at cableone.net (Ted Bunch) Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 15:34:12 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Toluca Meteorite with quartz In-Reply-To: <428268.99573.qm@web32501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Not Toluca. On 7/20/08 2:56 PM, "Ruben Garcia" wrote: > Hi all, > Take a look at this ebay auction. None of the pictures looks like any Toluca > meteorite that I've ever seen, and some of the pictures show what looks like > quartz! > > http://cgi.ebay.com/IRON-METEORITE-TOLUCA-3330-GRAMS-JIQUIPILCO-MEXICO_W0QQite > mZ180265923155QQihZ008QQcategoryZ3239QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem > > Ruben Garcia > Phoenix, Arizona > http://www.mr-meteorite.com > http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=meteorfright&p=v > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From m42protosun at aol.com Sun Jul 20 18:52:43 2008 From: m42protosun at aol.com (m42protosun at aol.com) Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 18:52:43 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Drilling meteorites to make jewelry In-Reply-To: <45227.69972.qm@web56107.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CAB8D274738BEB-42C-1226@FWM-M35.sysops.aol.com> Hi Dean, I have good success with diamont drill tips used by dentists. Uwe Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com -----Urspr?ngliche Mitteilung----- Von: dean bessey An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Verschickt: Mo., 21. Jul. 2008, 0:22 Thema: [meteorite-list] Drilling meteorites to make jewelry Does anybody know of a good type of drill to drill small holes through chondrites? Thanks DEAN ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ________________________________________________________________________ AOL eMail auf Ihrem Handy! Ab sofort k?nnen Sie auch unterwegs Ihre AOL email abrufen. Registrieren Sie sich jetzt kostenlos. From gessler at ucla.edu Sun Jul 20 19:19:35 2008 From: gessler at ucla.edu (Nicholas Gessler) Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 16:19:35 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Drilling meteorites to make jewelry In-Reply-To: <45227.69972.qm@web56107.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20080720150641.079042c8@ucla.edu> <45227.69972.qm@web56107.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20080720161437.06e4df00@ucla.edu> Hi Dean, Diamond bits. They come in all sizes, use with lots of water... I might have some around, but you can get them at most gem and jewelery shows and certainly at Tucson. I may have some around. Try looking at the websites for Dremel and Fordham tools... What I'd like to find are some diamond hole drills. I have some that are up to about 1/2 inch diameter, but they have a rather large kerf. I'd like to core some good looking meteorites to get the 20grams for the labs and not damage the appearance of my meteorites. Bore the hole. Break out the core. Fill the hole with some filler and paint it. Minimal change to the appearance of the meteorite - ample sample extracted. Cheers, Nick At 03:22 PM 7/20/2008, dean bessey wrote: >Does anybody know of a good type of drill to drill small holes >through chondrites? >Thanks >DEAN From rsvp321 at hotmail.com Sun Jul 20 22:37:03 2008 From: rsvp321 at hotmail.com (Pete Pete) Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 22:37:03 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Drilling meteorites to make jewelry In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20080720161437.06e4df00@ucla.edu> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20080720150641.079042c8@ucla.edu> <45227.69972.qm@web56107.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20080720161437.06e4df00@ucla.edu> Message-ID: Hi, Nick, all, A tiny diamond coring bit sounds like a custom-made tool, but I like the idea! Lots of us have fusion encrusted unclassified individuals too gorgeous to cut in to, which drives us insane wondering what lies inside. Fight the temptation! A small core sample, I'm thinking a few millimetres, to have a microscopic peek would be perfect. Cheers, Pete > Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 16:19:35 -0700 > To: deanbessey at yahoo.com; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > From: gessler at ucla.edu > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Drilling meteorites to make jewelry > > Hi Dean, > > Diamond bits. > They come in all sizes, use with lots of water... > I might have some around, but you can get them at most gem and jewelery shows > and certainly at Tucson. I may have some around. Try looking at the > websites for > Dremel and Fordham tools... > > What I'd like to find are some diamond hole drills. > I have some that are up to about 1/2 inch diameter, but they have a > rather large kerf. > I'd like to core some good looking meteorites to get the 20grams for > the labs and > not damage the appearance of my meteorites. Bore the hole. Break > out the core. > Fill the hole with some filler and paint it. Minimal change to the > appearance of the > meteorite - ample sample extracted. > > Cheers, > Nick > > At 03:22 PM 7/20/2008, dean bessey wrote: >>Does anybody know of a good type of drill to drill small holes >>through chondrites? >>Thanks >>DEAN > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _________________________________________________________________ Find hidden words, unscramble celebrity names, or try the ultimate crossword puzzle with Live Search Games. Play now! http://g.msn.ca/ca55/212 From cynapse at charter.net Sun Jul 20 23:06:00 2008 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 23:06:00 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Please help save the gigantic crater buried deep under the ocean and solid rock! In-Reply-To: References: <7.0.1.0.2.20080720150641.079042c8@ucla.edu> <45227.69972.qm@web56107.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20080720161437.06e4df00@ucla.edu> Message-ID: If we don't act now, the whole thing could be destroyed with only trillions of dollars and hundreds of years of concerted effort by the entire global population! So act today! http://www.tmcnet.com/usubmit/2008/07/20/3556594.htm NASA calls for protection of asteroid impact zone in Mexico (EFE Ingles Via Acquire Media NewsEdge) Mexico City, Jul 20 (EFE).- NASA is advocating that the Mexican zone of Chicxulub, where 65 million years ago a large meteorite impacted, changing the course of evolution on Earth, be declared a World Heritage Site by UNESCO. "It's a site unique in the world" where a phenomenon occurred that "changed the evolution of the Earth," Dr. Isabel Hawkins, an Argentine-U.S. astronomer with the University of California at Berkeley and contracted with by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration, or NASA, to work in the zone, told Efe. A meteorite calculated to have been 15 kilometers (9.3 miles) in diameter created the Chicxulub crater - a feature 200 kilometers (124 miles) wide - when it struck the spot just at the point in time separating the Cretaceous and Tertiary Periods. The characteristics of the crater are still being investigated by scientists. Seventeen years ago, NASA began sending missions to the zone to analyze the stratigraphy and geology there with an eye toward comparing the data with other verified meteorite impact sites, about 200 of which exist all around the globe. The special aspect of the Chicxulub impact is that "the dinosaurs that had ruled the Earth for 250 million years really disappeared" after the blast, Hawkins said. It was at that point that another group of vertebrates, the mammals, "who were smaller and could not compete with the dinosaurs, could gain ground, increase their strength and gain importance" evolutionarily, she said. Now, a scientist for NASA, Colombian Adriana Ocampo, is pushing UNESCO to declare the zone a scientific World Heritage Site to preserve the impact evidence and bring it to light. "She wants to support the Mexican government to promote a Unesco initiative," she added. Hawkins says that her colleague "as a first step, obtained the support of the Yucatan government." During the past week, NASA experts held open scientific-educational sessions in the zone to win the confidence of the local residents - about 3,000 of whom live in the immediate area - and make them aware "of the risk" for the area and the benefits that could result if better scientific protection is implemented there. Authorities are also speaking about fostering tourism and building a science museum to explain the landmark event that happened here millions of years ago. EFe act/bp From rsvp321 at hotmail.com Sun Jul 20 23:44:50 2008 From: rsvp321 at hotmail.com (Pete Pete) Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 23:44:50 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Please help save the gigantic crater buried deep under the ocean and solid rock! In-Reply-To: References: <7.0.1.0.2.20080720150641.079042c8@ucla.edu> <45227.69972.qm@web56107.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20080720161437.06e4df00@ucla.edu> Message-ID: I might be naive, but why don't they just use the Peruvian method for preserving craters: fill it with urine! > From: cynapse at charter.net > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 23:06:00 -0400 > Subject: [meteorite-list] Please help save the gigantic crater buried deep under the ocean and solid rock! > > If we don't act now, the whole thing could be destroyed with only trillions of > dollars and hundreds of years of concerted effort by the entire global > population! So act today! > > http://www.tmcnet.com/usubmit/2008/07/20/3556594.htm > > NASA calls for protection of asteroid impact zone in Mexico > > (EFE Ingles Via Acquire Media NewsEdge) Mexico City, Jul 20 (EFE).- NASA is > advocating that the Mexican zone of Chicxulub, where 65 million years ago a > large meteorite impacted, changing the course of evolution on Earth, be declared > a World Heritage Site by UNESCO. > > "It's a site unique in the world" where a phenomenon occurred that "changed the > evolution of the Earth," Dr. Isabel Hawkins, an Argentine-U.S. astronomer with > the University of California at Berkeley and contracted with by the National > Aeronautics and Space Administration, or NASA, to work in the zone, told Efe. > > A meteorite calculated to have been 15 kilometers (9.3 miles) in diameter > created the Chicxulub crater - a feature 200 kilometers (124 miles) wide - when > it struck the spot just at the point in time separating the Cretaceous and > Tertiary Periods. > > The characteristics of the crater are still being investigated by scientists. > > Seventeen years ago, NASA began sending missions to the zone to analyze the > stratigraphy and geology there with an eye toward comparing the data with other > verified meteorite impact sites, about 200 of which exist all around the globe. > > The special aspect of the Chicxulub impact is that "the dinosaurs that had ruled > the Earth for 250 million years really disappeared" after the blast, Hawkins > said. > > It was at that point that another group of vertebrates, the mammals, "who were > smaller and could not compete with the dinosaurs, could gain ground, increase > their strength and gain importance" evolutionarily, she said. > > Now, a scientist for NASA, Colombian Adriana Ocampo, is pushing UNESCO to > declare the zone a scientific World Heritage Site to preserve the impact > evidence and bring it to light. > > "She wants to support the Mexican government to promote a Unesco initiative," > she added. > > Hawkins says that her colleague "as a first step, obtained the support of the > Yucatan government." > > During the past week, NASA experts held open scientific-educational sessions in > the zone to win the confidence of the local residents - about 3,000 of whom live > in the immediate area - and make them aware "of the risk" for the area and the > benefits that could result if better scientific protection is implemented there. > > Authorities are also speaking about fostering tourism and building a science > museum to explain the landmark event that happened here millions of years ago. > EFe > > act/bp > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _________________________________________________________________ Try Chicktionary, a game that tests how many words you can form from the letters given. Find this and more puzzles at Live Search Games! http://g.msn.ca/ca55/207 From AJSnyder at cox.net Mon Jul 21 02:08:21 2008 From: AJSnyder at cox.net (Jay & Annette) Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 23:08:21 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Some of my Meteorites in 3-D Message-ID: <001201c8eaf8$2d9d1f40$100de544@YOUR1DE5B2D024> Hi gang, since there has been a lot of talk of the Mars 3-D pictures, I'll throw out my 3-D pics of some of the meteorites I found. I've always wanted to do some 3-D pics of the meteorites, so I did it. I found a neat little program to make them and had a fun time doing it. Here is the link to the forum where the pics are posted: http://www.nuggetshooter.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=13161 Hope you all enjoy!!!! These are my Gold Basin and Franconia meteorites that I have found over the past few years. Jason Snyder VAMH (Very Amateur Meteorite Hunter) From info at niger-meteorite-recon.de Mon Jul 21 03:13:12 2008 From: info at niger-meteorite-recon.de (Svend Buhl - Meteorite-Recon.com) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 09:13:12 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] email adress Hans Koser - paper on the Ziz meteorite (NWA 854) Message-ID: <13716084.266681216624392379.JavaMail.servlet@kundenserver> Dear list, may someone know, how our friend Hans Koser can be reached best? It seems his netgate.com.uy email adress isn't working properly. Besides I have been trying to locate the following paper on the Ziz iron meteorite: Horejsi, M.; Cilz, M.: "From the Strewnfields: The Irons of Ziz: When Beauty is More than Skin Deep. In: Meteorite, Vol. 7, p. 13 (2001). Unfortunately the article is not available through the NASA astronomy abstract service. Maybe someone would be willing to provide a scan or pdf? Thanks for your efforts cheers Svend www.meteorite-recon.com From gessler at ucla.edu Mon Jul 21 08:56:55 2008 From: gessler at ucla.edu (Nicholas Gessler) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 05:56:55 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Some of my Meteorites in 3-D In-Reply-To: <001201c8eaf8$2d9d1f40$100de544@YOUR1DE5B2D024> References: <001201c8eaf8$2d9d1f40$100de544@YOUR1DE5B2D024> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20080721055333.026cda20@ucla.edu> Hi All, I had my students working with PhotoShop to make 3D images. You don't need a special camera, just take two photographs about 15 degrees apart. For more depth, make the spread larger. For less, make it smaller. You don't need to keep the separation to the distance between your eyes. Once you have the photos, you have lot's of choices of what to do with them. Here's a web page I put together to demonstrate some of the choices: http://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/geog/gessler/topics/stereo.htm Enjoy, Nick From meteoritefinder at gmail.com Mon Jul 21 12:58:06 2008 From: meteoritefinder at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 09:58:06 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Glorieta meteorite damascus knives /ad/ Message-ID: <468bf6050807210958p71ccf284s722b50f029d74d7a@mail.gmail.com> I think I had my formatting set wrong so I apologize if this comes across twice. Hi all I have just up loaded three more unique Glorieta Meteorite damascus knives to my web site. They are all unique and there is a different style in this group as well. Pretty cool stuff worth a look even if you are not interested in hand forged knives, they are just out of this world! Here is a link http://www.meteoritefinder.com/glorieta-kives.htm -- Mike Miller 230 Greenway Dr. Kingman Az 86401 www.meteoritefinder.com 928-753-6825 From meteoriteplaya at gmail.com Mon Jul 21 13:06:43 2008 From: meteoriteplaya at gmail.com (Mike Jensen) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 11:06:43 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - July 19, 2008 In-Reply-To: <32248142.103471216466967615.JavaMail.root@mbs4.homesteadmail.com> References: <32248142.103471216466967615.JavaMail.root@mbs4.homesteadmail.com> Message-ID: <6f9da8300807211006l2e8834fbt755522226fc1bdbf@mail.gmail.com> Hi Michael and list The text list this stone as a ACHANOM or achondrite anomalous. But if you look it up in the MB database it is listed as a Eucrite. http://tinyurl.com/5f4hxy According to several papers that were reference it has always been classified a Eucrite. If a change in classification has been suggested then a supporting scientific paper should be referenced. I only point this out as once outdated or incorrect information makes it onto the web it is very hard to correct it. Besides it only takes a minute to look it up in the database. I also would like to point out that if the ACHANOM is the new correct classification then a more accepted terminology is Achondrite ungrouped. Anomolous is for meteorites that closely fit into to recognized chemical groups but do have one or more points that are outside the norm. So you could have Eucrite anom or IIAB anom or H5 anom etc but you cannot have iron anom or stone anom or chondrite anom etc. The latter should be ungrouped. Right now for instance there are almost 100 ungrouped iron meteorites. Someday they will be placed into a new group but of course at least 6 are needed to make up a new group. The 100 ungrouped irons should not be confused with over 75 irons which have not been classified. They are just listed as irons but could and maybe should be listed as iron-unclassified. Mike -- Mike Jensen Jensen Meteorites 16730 E Ada PL Aurora, CO 80017-3137 303-337-4361 IMCA 4264 website: www.jensenmeteorites.com On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 5:29 AM, Michael Johnson wrote: > > http://www.rocksfromspace.org/July_19_2008.html > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Mon Jul 21 13:17:48 2008 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 21 Jul 2008 17:17:48 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] Re-2: Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - July 19, 2008 Message-ID: Hi Fabrice, Mike and List, Mike wrote: "The text list this stone as a ACHANOM or achondrite anomalous. But if you look it up in the MB database it is listed as a Eucrite ... So you could have Eucrite anom ..." YAMAGUCHI A. et al. (2003) An anomalous eucrite, Dhofar 007, and a possible genetic relationship with mesosiderites (Lunar and Planetary Science XXXIV (2003) 1377.pdf). YAMAGUCHI A. et al. (2006) An anomalous eucrite, Dhofar 007, and a possible genetic relationship with mesosiderites (MAPS 41-6, 2006, 863-874). Best, Bernd To: meteoriteplaya at gmail.com michael at spacerocksinc.com Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com From meteoriteplaya at gmail.com Mon Jul 21 14:15:26 2008 From: meteoriteplaya at gmail.com (Mike Jensen) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 12:15:26 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Re-2: Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - July 19, 2008 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6f9da8300807211115q5f62555bkcb91495250867cbc@mail.gmail.com> Hi Bernd Yes I saw both of those abstracts. Unfortunately abstracts carry almost no weight as they are not peer reviewed. So the most correct classification based on the original work would be a Eucrite. Though ultimately I would strongly suspect they are correct and in the future it will be Eucrite anom. In any case it is not a achondrite anom. -- Mike -- Mike Jensen Jensen Meteorites 16730 E Ada PL Aurora, CO 80017-3137 303-337-4361 IMCA 4264 website: www.jensenmeteorites.com On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 6:17 PM, wrote: > Hi Fabrice, Mike and List, > > > Mike wrote: "The text list this stone as a ACHANOM or achondrite anomalous. > But if you look it up in the MB database it is listed as a Eucrite ... So you could > have Eucrite anom ..." > > > YAMAGUCHI A. et al. (2003) An anomalous eucrite, Dhofar 007, and a possible genetic > relationship with mesosiderites (Lunar and Planetary Science XXXIV (2003) 1377.pdf). > > YAMAGUCHI A. et al. (2006) An anomalous eucrite, Dhofar 007, and a possible > genetic relationship with mesosiderites (MAPS 41-6, 2006, 863-874). > > Best, > > Bernd > > To: meteoriteplaya at gmail.com > michael at spacerocksinc.com > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Mon Jul 21 15:36:20 2008 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 21:36:20 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] William Barriere - Youth of Canada be warned! Message-ID: <001d01c8eb69$0e1834e0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> That is almost unreal. http://www.meteorites.bw.qc.ca/meteorites1/index.html Press: recommencer... and then enjoy. I'm curios about your opinion. Martin Now I have to read the second adventure... From gessler at ucla.edu Mon Jul 21 15:57:55 2008 From: gessler at ucla.edu (Nicholas Gessler) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 12:57:55 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] William Barriere - Youth of Canada be warned! In-Reply-To: <001d01c8eb69$0e1834e0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> References: <001d01c8eb69$0e1834e0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20080721125655.06e57db0@ucla.edu> My French is not that good and I didn't have time to click through the whole story, but what I did see looked great!!! Congratulations to the authors and artists!!! Nick At 12:36 PM 7/21/2008, Martin Altmann wrote: >That is almost unreal. >http://www.meteorites.bw.qc.ca/meteorites1/index.html >Press: recommencer... and then enjoy. >I'm curios about your opinion. >Martin >Now I have to read the second adventure... >______________________________________________ >http://www.meteoritecentral.com >Meteorite-list mailing list >Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Mon Jul 21 16:53:18 2008 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 22:53:18 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] William Barriere - Youth of Canada be warned! In-Reply-To: References: <001d01c8eb69$0e1834e0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: <003301c8eb73$cff33c90$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Hehe, Nick, Good that you haven't clicked through the whole story. Such a style of propaganda I saw the last time in Romania, where a Christian sect distributed comic booklets, of really rude contents. (Family the same, Mother Father Sun Daughter Dog....). Hehe, anti-propaganda, I just finished the plot for the next adventure. Marie-Noelle and Thomas accompany docteure Julia on an expedition to desert. They are captured by terrorists but are affranchised by the intrepid Pelican brothers and their funny cook Amoroso. Altogether they continue the travel and meet two rachitic nomad children, who have found a meteorite each. Julia explains to the children, how important their recovery would be and that she immediately have start to cry, if they wouldn't hand over the stones to her. The children are dismayed, hand over the stones and for making Julia smiling again, they show them the way to a mysterious treasure cave. The Pelicans roll the rock, blocking the entrance, aside.... Inside mountains of meteorites are hoarded!!!! Three 200 years old Guardians with long beards raise their heads. Their names are Logan, Ward, Nininger. Thomas and Amoroso manage to slay the guardians, Julia organizes the transport of the stones, and promises to the nomad children, that their names will be eternalized on a label on a showcase in the Museum. And happily they return to Canada. Epilog. - Marie-Noelle and Thomas, who had quit school to accompany docteure Julia in the name of science, have to hire out as cleaning personnel in the private collection of heartless William Barriere. - Docteure Julia wins the Nobel prize, cause she had discovered some Martian fossils in the stones of the nomad children. - A messenger delivers a photo of the plate with the names of the children in the museum to their mother, who is now happy again. (as the children died a while ago, cause they couldn't afford medication). -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: majbaermann at web.de [mailto:majbaermann at web.de] Gesendet: Montag, 21. Juli 2008 21:46 An: Martin Altmann Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] William Barriere - Youth of Canada be warned! Inspiring indeed! I just had a try and threw my Tafassasset-slice on the surface of a little lake nearby - it flipped only twice :-( ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martin Altmann" To: Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 9:36 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] William Barriere - Youth of Canada be warned! > > That is almost unreal. > > http://www.meteorites.bw.qc.ca/meteorites1/index.html > > Press: recommencer... and then enjoy. > > I'm curios about your opinion. > > Martin > > Now I have to read the second adventure... > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From p.marmet at sunrise.ch Mon Jul 21 17:47:06 2008 From: p.marmet at sunrise.ch (Peter Marmet) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 23:47:06 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Sale page update Message-ID: <58440F20-7293-456F-B1ED-00D0DEEE45BB@sunrise.ch> Hello All, I just added a stunning new LL4 condrite to my sale page: http://www.marmet-meteorites.com/id1.html Other sale pages: Carbonaceous chondrites: http://www.marmet-meteorites.com/id43.html Achondrites: http://www.marmet-meteorites.com/id41.html Museum pieces: http://www.marmet-meteorites.com/id26.html http://www.marmet-meteorites.com/id25.html Thank you, Peter Peter Marmet Bern, Switzerland IMCA #2747 p.marmet at mysunrise.ch http://www.marmet-meteorites.com/ From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Mon Jul 21 20:31:25 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 17:31:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Fourth Dwarf Planet Named Makemake Message-ID: <200807220031.RAA21113@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> International Astronomical Union Paris, France For more information, please contact: Dr. Edward L.G. Bowell IAU Division III President Lowell Observatory, USA Tel: +1-928-774-3358 Mike Brown Professor of Planetary Astronomy California Institute of Technology Phone: +1-626-395-8423 Lars Lindberg Christensen IAU Press Officer ESA/Hubble, Garching, Germany Phone: +49-89-32-00-63-06 Jul 19, 2008 News Release: IAU0806 Fourth dwarf planet named Makemake The International Astronomical Union (IAU) has given the name Makemake to the newest member of the family of dwarf planets -- the object formerly known as 2005 FY9 -- after the Polynesian creator of humanity and the god of fertility. Members of the International Astronomical Union's Committee on Small Body Nomenclature (CSBN) and the IAU Working Group for Planetary System Nomenclature (WGPSN) have decided to name the newest member of the plutoid family Makemake, and have classified it as the fourth dwarf planet in our Solar System and the third plutoid. Makemake (pronounced MAH-keh MAH-keh) is one of the largest objects known in the outer Solar System and is just slightly smaller and dimmer than Pluto, its fellow plutoid. The dwarf planet is reddish in colour and astronomers believe the surface is covered by a layer of frozen methane. Like other plutoids, Makemake is located in a region beyond Neptune that is populated with small Solar System bodies (often referred to as the transneptunian region). The object was discovered in 2005 by a team from the California Institute of Technology led by Mike Brown and was previously known as 2005 FY9 (or unofficially "Easterbunny"). It has the IAU Minor Planet Center designation (136472). Once the orbit of a small Solar System body or candidate dwarf planet is well determined, its provisional designation (2005 FY9 in the case of Makemake) is superseded by its permanent numerical designation (136472) in the case of Makemake. The discoverer of a Solar System object has the privilege of suggesting a name to the IAU, which judges its suitability. Mike Brown says: "We consider the naming of objects in the Solar System very carefully. Makemake's surface is covered with large amounts of almost pure methane ice, which is scientifically fascinating, but really not easily relatable to terrestrial mythology. Suddenly, it dawned on me: the island of Rapa Nui. Why hadn't I thought of this before? I wasn't familiar with the mythology of the island so I had to look it up, and I found Makemake, the chief god, the creator of humanity, and the god of fertility. I am partial to fertility gods. Eris, Makemake, and 2003 EL61 were all discovered as my wife was 3-6 months pregnant with our daughter. I have the distinct memory of feeling this fertile abundance pouring out of the entire Universe. Makemake was part of that." WGPSN and CSBN accepted the name Makemake during discussions conducted per email. Makemake holds an important place in the Solar System because it, along with Eris and 2003 EL61, was one of the objects whose discovery prompted the IAU to reconsider the definition of a planet and to create the new group of dwarf planets. Visually, it is the second brightest transneptunian object, following after Pluto, and is bright enough to be seen through a high-end amateur telescope (a peak magnitude of roughly 16.5). Mike Brown explains: "The orbit is not particularly strange, but the object itself is big. Probably about 2/3 the size of Pluto." The other three dwarf planets are Ceres, Pluto and Eris. However, Ceres is not a member of the distinctive plutoid group because its orbit is smaller than Neptune's (Ceres is located in the asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter). The word Makemake is Polynesian in origin and is the name of the creator of humanity and the god of fertility in the mythology of the South Pacific island of Rapa Nui or the Easter Island. He was the chief god of the Tangata manu bird-man cult and was worshiped in the form of sea birds, which were his incarnation. His material symbol was a man with a bird's head. Notes The IAU is the international astronomical organisation that brings together almost 10,000 distinguished astronomers from all nations of the world. Its mission is to promote and safeguard the science of astronomy in all its aspects through international cooperation. The IAU also serves as the internationally recognised authority for assigning designations to celestial bodies and the surface features on them. Founded in 1919, the IAU is the world's largest professional body for astronomers. Links * Information about Pluto and the other dwarf planets http://www.iau.org/public_press/themes/pluto/ * IAU website http://www.iau.org/ * Scientific paper estimating the size of Makemake http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0702538v1 [NOTE: An image supporting this release is available at http://www.iau.org/static/archives/images/screen/iau0806a.jpg (107KB) ] From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Mon Jul 21 20:34:00 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 17:34:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander Works Through the Night Message-ID: <200807220034.RAA22190@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/phoenix/release.php?ArticleID=1796 NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander Works Through the Night Jet Propulsion Laboratory July 21, 2008 TUCSON, Ariz. -- To coordinate with observations made by an orbiter flying repeatedly overhead, NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander is working a schedule Monday that includes staying awake all night for the first time. Phoenix is using its weather station, stereo camera and conductivity probe to monitor changes in the lower atmosphere and ground surface at the same time NASA's Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter studies the atmosphere and ground from above. The lander's fork-like thermal and conductivity probe was inserted into the soil Sunday for more than 24 hours of measurements coordinated with the atmosphere observations. One goal is to watch for time-of-day changes such as whether some water alters from ice phase to vapor phase and enters the atmosphere from the soil. "We are looking for patterns of movement and phase change," said Michael Hecht, lead scientist for Phoenix's Microscopy, Electrochemistry and Conductivity Analyzer, which includes the conductivity probe. "The probe is working great. We see some changes in soil electrical properties, which may be related to water, but we're still chewing on the data." The extended work shift for the lander began Sunday afternoon Pacific Time. In Mars time at the landing site, it lasts from the morning of Phoenix's 55th Martian day, or sol, to the afternoon of its 56th sol. The Phoenix team's plans for Sol 56 also include commanding the lander to conduct additional testing of the techniques for collecting a sample of icy soil. When the team is confident about the collecting method, it plans to use Phoenix's robotic arm to deliver an icy sample to an oven of the Thermal and Evolved-Gas Analyzer (TEGA). The TEGA instrument successfully opened both doors Saturday for the oven chosen to get the first icy sample. Images from the Surface Stereo Camera confirmed that the doors are wide open. The Phoenix mission is led by Peter Smith of the University of Arizona with project management at JPL and development partnership at Lockheed Martin, Denver. International contributions come from the Canadian Space Agency; the University of Neuchatel; the universities of Copenhagen and Aarhus, Denmark; Max Planck Institute, Germany; and the Finnish Meteorological Institute. For more about Phoenix, visit: http://www.nasa.gov/phoenix and http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu. Media contacts: Guy Webster 818-354-6278 Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. guy.webster at jpl.nasa.gov Sara Hammond 520-626-1974 University of Arizona, Tucson shammond at lpl.arizona.edu Dwayne Brown 202-358-1726 NASA Headquarters dwayne.c.brown at nasa.gov From lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu Mon Jul 21 20:52:52 2008 From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu (lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 17:52:52 -0700 (MST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Fourth Dwarf Planet Named Makemake In-Reply-To: <200807220031.RAA21113@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> References: <200807220031.RAA21113@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <51379.71.226.60.25.1216687972.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> This is the first time, as far as I can tell, that an IAU press release actually says that plutoids are a subset of dwarf planets. If you ask the right people (and refer back to the original defining of dwarf planets), in the IAU resolution, it states that: "An IAU process will be established to select a name for this category.? They did this with the creation of plutoids, but never referred back to the original resolution, and never actually said that plutoids were transneptunian dwarf planets. Now, this is officially stated. However, when the term plutoid was announced, it stated that ALL objects brighter than a certain level (implying size) were to be defined as plutoids, and that implies there are about 40 other known plutoids, not just 4. Are they backing down on this until they have more information on these other objects? Larry On Mon, July 21, 2008 5:31 pm, Ron Baalke wrote: > > > International Astronomical Union > Paris, France > > > For more information, please contact: > > > Dr. Edward L.G. Bowell > IAU Division III President > Lowell Observatory, USA > Tel: +1-928-774-3358 > > > Mike Brown > Professor of Planetary Astronomy > California Institute of Technology > Phone: +1-626-395-8423 > > > Lars Lindberg Christensen > IAU Press Officer > ESA/Hubble, Garching, Germany > Phone: +49-89-32-00-63-06 > > > Jul 19, 2008 > > > News Release: IAU0806 > > > Fourth dwarf planet named Makemake > > > The International Astronomical Union (IAU) has given the name Makemake to > the newest member of the family of dwarf planets -- the object formerly > known as 2005 FY9 -- after the Polynesian creator of humanity and the god > of fertility. > > Members of the International Astronomical Union's Committee on Small Body > Nomenclature (CSBN) and the IAU Working Group for Planetary System > Nomenclature (WGPSN) have decided to name the newest member of the plutoid > family Makemake, and have classified it as the fourth dwarf planet in > our Solar System and the third plutoid. > > > Makemake (pronounced MAH-keh MAH-keh) is one of the largest objects known > in the outer Solar System and is just slightly smaller and dimmer than > Pluto, > its fellow plutoid. The dwarf planet is reddish in colour and astronomers > believe the surface is covered by a layer of frozen methane. > > Like other plutoids, Makemake is located in a region beyond Neptune that > is populated with small Solar System bodies (often referred to as the > transneptunian region). The object was discovered in 2005 by a team from > the California Institute of Technology led by Mike Brown and was > previously known as 2005 FY9 (or unofficially "Easterbunny"). It has the > IAU Minor > Planet Center designation (136472). Once the orbit of a small Solar System > body or candidate dwarf planet is well determined, its provisional > designation (2005 FY9 in the case of Makemake) is superseded by its > permanent numerical designation (136472) in the case of Makemake. > > The discoverer of a Solar System object has the privilege of suggesting a > name to the IAU, which judges its suitability. Mike Brown says: "We > consider the naming of objects in the Solar System very carefully. > Makemake's surface > is covered with large amounts of almost pure methane ice, which is > scientifically fascinating, but really not easily relatable to > terrestrial mythology. Suddenly, it dawned on me: the island of Rapa Nui. > Why hadn't I > thought of this before? I wasn't familiar with the mythology of the island > so I had to look it up, and I found Makemake, the chief god, the creator > of humanity, and the god of fertility. I am partial to fertility gods. > Eris, > Makemake, and 2003 EL61 were all discovered as my wife was 3-6 months > pregnant with our daughter. I have the distinct memory of feeling this > fertile abundance pouring out of the entire Universe. Makemake was part > of that." WGPSN and CSBN accepted the name Makemake during discussions > conducted per email. > > Makemake holds an important place in the Solar System because it, along > with Eris and 2003 EL61, was one of the objects whose discovery prompted > the IAU to reconsider the definition of a planet and to create the new > group of dwarf planets. Visually, it is the second brightest > transneptunian object, following after Pluto, and is bright enough to be > seen through a high-end amateur telescope (a peak magnitude of roughly > 16.5). Mike Brown explains: > "The orbit is not particularly strange, but the object itself is big. > Probably about 2/3 the size of Pluto." > > > The other three dwarf planets are Ceres, Pluto and Eris. However, Ceres > is not a member of the distinctive plutoid group because its orbit is > smaller than Neptune's (Ceres is located in the asteroid belt between Mars > and Jupiter). > > > The word Makemake is Polynesian in origin and is the name of the creator > of humanity and the god of fertility in the mythology of the South Pacific > island of Rapa Nui or the Easter Island. He was the chief god of the > Tangata > manu bird-man cult and was worshiped in the form of sea birds, which were > his incarnation. His material symbol was a man with a bird's head. > > Notes > > > The IAU is the international astronomical organisation that brings > together almost 10,000 distinguished astronomers from all nations of the > world. Its mission is to promote and safeguard the science of astronomy in > all its aspects through international cooperation. The IAU also serves as > the internationally recognised authority for assigning designations to > celestial bodies and the surface features on them. Founded in 1919, the > IAU is the > world's largest professional body for astronomers. > > Links > > > * Information about Pluto and the other dwarf planets > http://www.iau.org/public_press/themes/pluto/ > * IAU website > http://www.iau.org/ > * Scientific paper estimating the size of Makemake > http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0702538v1 > > > [NOTE: An image supporting this release is available at > http://www.iau.org/static/archives/images/screen/iau0806a.jpg (107KB) ] > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From rob at nakhladogmeteorites.com Mon Jul 21 21:43:30 2008 From: rob at nakhladogmeteorites.com (Rob Wesel) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 18:43:30 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] William Barriere - Youth of Canada be warned! References: <001d01c8eb69$0e1834e0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: <003001c8eb9c$592fa7a0$6501a8c0@windows9bb74fe> So happy they were to see their name in the museum. The only inconsistency I saw was that there was only one collector after them and they took the first offer. Rob Wesel http://www.nakhladogmeteorites.com ------------------ We are the music makers... and we are the dreamers of the dreams. Willy Wonka, 1971 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martin Altmann" To: Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 12:36 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] William Barriere - Youth of Canada be warned! > > That is almost unreal. > > http://www.meteorites.bw.qc.ca/meteorites1/index.html > > Press: recommencer... and then enjoy. > > I'm curios about your opinion. > > Martin > > Now I have to read the second adventure... > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From arnaudmignan at hotmail.com Tue Jul 22 02:30:22 2008 From: arnaudmignan at hotmail.com (Arnaud Mignan) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 08:30:22 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] -SALE- meteorites for sale or trade (due to collection reorganization) Message-ID: Dear list, I have more than 30 meteorites for sale or trade (Allende, Benguerir, Bensour, Campos Sales, Canyon Diablo spheroids, Carancas, Chateau-renard, Chinga, Cosby's Creek, Deport, Gao, Holbrook, Imilac, Juancheng, Juvinas, Kerilis, Millbillillie, Ochansk, Oum Dreyga, Ourique, SAU001, Sikhote Alin, Taza, Thuathe, Vaca Muerta, Vouille, Wiluna, Wolfe Creek, Zag) Please contact me off the list to get a PDF with all pictures and prices (from 10 to 200EUR) Thank you, Arnaud _________________________________________________________________ Retouchez, classez et partagez vos photos gratuitement avec le logiciel Galerie de Photos ! http://www.windowslive.fr/galerie/ From mikewren at gilanet.com Tue Jul 22 02:43:16 2008 From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 00:43:16 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: NEW METEORITE FROM NEW MEXICO-LA LUZ and 40% off on select Items .... Message-ID: <200807220045151.SM00764@yourfsyly0jtwn> Hello, Take a look at my latest meteorite recovery- LA LUZ, New Mexico. The LA LUZ Meteorite. While searching for arrowheads, one stone meteorite weighing 4.798kg was found by Ronnie Nowell, near La Luz, New Mexico in 2007. This meteorite has been classified by The University of New Mexico as an H4 Chondrite, with a Shock Stage of S2 and a Weathering Grade of W3. Most of this meteorite material is remaining in the main mass and Only about 600 grams are being released to the collecting community. One of the researchers had this to say about the La Luz Meteorite: "The sample is composed of ~50% well-defined chondrules set in a clastic matrix of silicates and opaques. Chondrules mostly range in size from 50 to 400 mm; rare chondrules are 600 mm to 1 mm in diameter. Olivine is the most common mafic silicate in the sample but some low-Ca pyroxene is also present. Several types of chondrules are present including barred olivine, porphyritic olivine, radial pyroxene, and compound. In plane polarized light the entire section is stained brownish-red. Oxidation is mostly in veins and matrix but silicates also have a reddish staining. Few metal grains are visible in reflected light. Most olivine grains exhibit sharp optical extinction, but a few show undulatory extinction." UNM Also, I am having a 40% off sale on select items in my ebay store. Go to: http://stores.ebay.com/VOYAGE-BOTANICA-NATURAL-HISTORY Thanks and Best Wishes Michael Cottingham From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Tue Jul 22 06:37:34 2008 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 12:37:34 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] William Barriere - Youth of Canada be warned! In-Reply-To: <003001c8eb9c$592fa7a0$6501a8c0@windows9bb74fe> References: <001d01c8eb69$0e1834e0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> <003001c8eb9c$592fa7a0$6501a8c0@windows9bb74fe> Message-ID: <004801c8ebe6$f5db1400$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Yah but Rob, every reader expects that happy end: The final big surprise, that docteure Julia comes and rewards Thomas with the video game and Marie-Noelle with the trip to Egypt (and the dog with a bone) for their unselfish decision to have donated the stone to the museum. But? Nothing! Not very encouraging.. And mean Mr. Barriere is much more honest than docteure Julia. She is pushy, she plays on the heart strings and at the end she even presents the instrument of torture (why she and not Barriere has such a mineral saw..?), while Barriere says only: This is what you get, you have all the time to think about, to come to a decision. But at least now I know, why I saw so many stretch limousines in the streets of Tucson: Those were all meteorite collectors!!!! Martin -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Rob Wesel [mailto:rob at nakhladogmeteorites.com] Gesendet: Dienstag, 22. Juli 2008 03:44 An: Martin Altmann; Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] William Barriere - Youth of Canada be warned! So happy they were to see their name in the museum. The only inconsistency I saw was that there was only one collector after them and they took the first offer. Rob Wesel http://www.nakhladogmeteorites.com ------------------ We are the music makers... and we are the dreamers of the dreams. Willy Wonka, 1971 From michael at spacerocksinc.com Tue Jul 22 09:08:43 2008 From: michael at spacerocksinc.com (Michael Johnson) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 06:08:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - July 22, 2008 Message-ID: <22776256.352271216732123448.JavaMail.root@mbs4.homesteadmail.com> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/July_22_2008.html From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Tue Jul 22 12:22:01 2008 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 09:22:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad: 50 one-cent meteorites ending on ebay tonight. Message-ID: <332382.18157.qm@web33103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello again, it is that day of the week, EBAY day! I will have only one more ebay sale this summer, so if you want something either on ebay or from my website, now is the time. I will be down south on a meteorite expedition for the entire month of August. http://www.meteorite.com/farmer/ See the link above linking all of my auctions from both of my ebay usernames. I have some wonderful pieces ending this week, Nice Fukang, 500 gram Muonionalusta slice, Nininger/ASU Admire, etc many goodies, take a look, many are still at one cent. Michael Farmer From mikewren at gilanet.com Tue Jul 22 14:08:31 2008 From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 12:08:31 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: NEW METEORITE FROM NEW MEXICO-LA LUZ and 40% off on select Items .... Message-ID: <200807221211248.SM01692@yourfsyly0jtwn> Hello, Take a look at my latest meteorite recovery- LA LUZ, New Mexico. The LA LUZ Meteorite. While searching for arrowheads, one stone meteorite weighing 4.798kg was found by Ronnie Nowell, near La Luz, New Mexico in 2007. This meteorite has been classified by The University of New Mexico as an H4 Chondrite, with a Shock Stage of S2 and a Weathering Grade of W3. Most of this meteorite material is remaining in the main mass and Only about 600 grams are being released to the collecting community. One of the researchers had this to say about the La Luz Meteorite: "The sample is composed of ~50% well-defined chondrules set in a clastic matrix of silicates and opaques. Chondrules mostly range in size from 50 to 400 mm; rare chondrules are 600 mm to 1 mm in diameter. Olivine is the most common mafic silicate in the sample but some low-Ca pyroxene is also present. Several types of chondrules are present including barred olivine, porphyritic olivine, radial pyroxene, and compound. In plane polarized light the entire section is stained brownish-red. Oxidation is mostly in veins and matrix but silicates also have a reddish staining. Few metal grains are visible in reflected light. Most olivine grains exhibit sharp optical extinction, but a few show undulatory extinction." UNM Also, I am having a 40% off sale on select items in my ebay store. Go to: http://stores.ebay.com/VOYAGE-BOTANICA-NATURAL-HISTORY Thanks and Best Wishes Michael Cottingham ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Tue Jul 22 14:47:32 2008 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 13:47:32 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fourth Dwarf Planet Named Makemake References: <200807220031.RAA21113@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> <51379.71.226.60.25.1216687972.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> Message-ID: <050a01c8ec2b$6734c6c0$db5de146@ATARIENGINE> Hi, Larry, List, Larry wrote: > ...ALL objects brighter than a certain level (implying size) > were to be defined as plutoids, and that implies there are > about 40 other known plutoids, not just 4. The level specified was an absolute magnitude (H) of +1.0 and that is the factor that restricts the list of "plutoids" to four possible bodies, not 8 nor 40. Pluto, Eris, Makemake are officially "plutoids." 2003EL61 should be a "plutoid" but they're taking their sweet time about saying so; it has an H of +0.17. My personal belief is that they want to kick it out because they think it's not round enough... They have had a name under consideration for 2003 EL61 for a long time, but have not acted. But as for the others -- I call them the "Plutoid Seven" -- you can forget about Sedna and Ouaoar and Orcus and Ixion and Varuna and (55565) 2002 AW197 and (84522) 2002 TC302. Their H is dimmer than +1.0, but intrinsically brighter than Ceres (at H +3.36), hence they are presumptively round, and meet all other criteria. The relatively sane thing to do would have been to set the "plutoid" limit at the absolutute magnitude of Ceres, since Ceres is clearly beach-ball-like and its albedo is the same as the average TNO. Why would they not set the "H limit" at +3.36, as planetary evidence of a known round ice-rock world would suggest? Well... You can get rid of a helluva lot more "planets" that way! (It's a clever move...) It also reduces the number of dwarf planets to five -- Ceres and the four "Plutoids," of which only three are officially recognized). That way, eventually all this planet furor will die down. They will have gotten rid of Pluto and nobody is going to remember all that silly stuff about some laughing-stock "dwarf" planets. To call something a "dwarf planet" is essentially an invitation to forget it. "What's a dwarf planet?" the kids ask. "Well, it's a kind of asteroid, I guess... Forget about them, and let's just concentrate on the eight planets," says the teacher. The committee is essentially gambling that all brightest objects have been discovered and is getting ready to fold their cards and let dwarf planets become a footnote which will be forgotten by the public, but having managed to dump Pluto, which was all they really wanted to do all along, you know. Sterling K. Webb ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Ron Baalke" Cc: "Meteorite Mailing List" Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 7:52 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fourth Dwarf Planet Named Makemake This is the first time, as far as I can tell, that an IAU press release actually says that plutoids are a subset of dwarf planets. If you ask the right people (and refer back to the original defining of dwarf planets), in the IAU resolution, it states that: "An IAU process will be established to select a name for this category." They did this with the creation of plutoids, but never referred back to the original resolution, and never actually said that plutoids were transneptunian dwarf planets. Now, this is officially stated. However, when the term plutoid was announced, it stated that ALL objects brighter than a certain level (implying size) were to be defined as plutoids, and that implies there are about 40 other known plutoids, not just 4. Are they backing down on this until they have more information on these other objects? Larry On Mon, July 21, 2008 5:31 pm, Ron Baalke wrote: > > > International Astronomical Union > Paris, France > > > For more information, please contact: > > > Dr. Edward L.G. Bowell > IAU Division III President > Lowell Observatory, USA > Tel: +1-928-774-3358 > > > Mike Brown > Professor of Planetary Astronomy > California Institute of Technology > Phone: +1-626-395-8423 > > > Lars Lindberg Christensen > IAU Press Officer > ESA/Hubble, Garching, Germany > Phone: +49-89-32-00-63-06 > > > Jul 19, 2008 > > > News Release: IAU0806 > > > Fourth dwarf planet named Makemake > > > The International Astronomical Union (IAU) has given the name Makemake to > the newest member of the family of dwarf planets -- the object formerly > known as 2005 FY9 -- after the Polynesian creator of humanity and the god > of fertility. > > Members of the International Astronomical Union's Committee on Small Body > Nomenclature (CSBN) and the IAU Working Group for Planetary System > Nomenclature (WGPSN) have decided to name the newest member of the plutoid > family Makemake, and have classified it as the fourth dwarf planet in > our Solar System and the third plutoid. > > > Makemake (pronounced MAH-keh MAH-keh) is one of the largest objects known > in the outer Solar System and is just slightly smaller and dimmer than > Pluto, > its fellow plutoid. The dwarf planet is reddish in colour and astronomers > believe the surface is covered by a layer of frozen methane. > > Like other plutoids, Makemake is located in a region beyond Neptune that > is populated with small Solar System bodies (often referred to as the > transneptunian region). The object was discovered in 2005 by a team from > the California Institute of Technology led by Mike Brown and was > previously known as 2005 FY9 (or unofficially "Easterbunny"). It has the > IAU Minor > Planet Center designation (136472). Once the orbit of a small Solar System > body or candidate dwarf planet is well determined, its provisional > designation (2005 FY9 in the case of Makemake) is superseded by its > permanent numerical designation (136472) in the case of Makemake. > > The discoverer of a Solar System object has the privilege of suggesting a > name to the IAU, which judges its suitability. Mike Brown says: "We > consider the naming of objects in the Solar System very carefully. > Makemake's surface > is covered with large amounts of almost pure methane ice, which is > scientifically fascinating, but really not easily relatable to > terrestrial mythology. Suddenly, it dawned on me: the island of Rapa Nui. > Why hadn't I > thought of this before? I wasn't familiar with the mythology of the island > so I had to look it up, and I found Makemake, the chief god, the creator > of humanity, and the god of fertility. I am partial to fertility gods. > Eris, > Makemake, and 2003 EL61 were all discovered as my wife was 3-6 months > pregnant with our daughter. I have the distinct memory of feeling this > fertile abundance pouring out of the entire Universe. Makemake was part > of that." WGPSN and CSBN accepted the name Makemake during discussions > conducted per email. > > Makemake holds an important place in the Solar System because it, along > with Eris and 2003 EL61, was one of the objects whose discovery prompted > the IAU to reconsider the definition of a planet and to create the new > group of dwarf planets. Visually, it is the second brightest > transneptunian object, following after Pluto, and is bright enough to be > seen through a high-end amateur telescope (a peak magnitude of roughly > 16.5). Mike Brown explains: > "The orbit is not particularly strange, but the object itself is big. > Probably about 2/3 the size of Pluto." > > > The other three dwarf planets are Ceres, Pluto and Eris. However, Ceres > is not a member of the distinctive plutoid group because its orbit is > smaller than Neptune's (Ceres is located in the asteroid belt between Mars > and Jupiter). > > > The word Makemake is Polynesian in origin and is the name of the creator > of humanity and the god of fertility in the mythology of the South Pacific > island of Rapa Nui or the Easter Island. He was the chief god of the > Tangata > manu bird-man cult and was worshiped in the form of sea birds, which were > his incarnation. His material symbol was a man with a bird's head. > > Notes > > > The IAU is the international astronomical organisation that brings > together almost 10,000 distinguished astronomers from all nations of the > world. Its mission is to promote and safeguard the science of astronomy in > all its aspects through international cooperation. The IAU also serves as > the internationally recognised authority for assigning designations to > celestial bodies and the surface features on them. Founded in 1919, the > IAU is the > world's largest professional body for astronomers. > > Links > > > * Information about Pluto and the other dwarf planets > http://www.iau.org/public_press/themes/pluto/ > * IAU website > http://www.iau.org/ > * Scientific paper estimating the size of Makemake > http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0702538v1 > > > [NOTE: An image supporting this release is available at > http://www.iau.org/static/archives/images/screen/iau0806a.jpg (107KB) ] > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From m_graul at yahoo.de Tue Jul 22 15:58:15 2008 From: m_graul at yahoo.de (Mirko Graul) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 19:58:15 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Expect offers for oriented Villalbeto #25 Message-ID: <478953.55969.qm@web26301.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Hello List, still is the oriented Villalbeto for sale. Today I would like the piece again offer the list. A sale price has been fixed. But if someone is interested in the piece, we are happy to receive offers. If we appear atraktiv a price, the piece also changes its owner. Exceptional items require exceptional prices! And this piece is extraordinary! Perhaps the most beautiful from this fall. Here is the link for show the photos. http://www.meteorite-mirko.de/0334af9968005f401/index.php Please send your offers offlist! Many thanks Mirko Graul Mirko Graul Meteorite Quittenring.4 16321 Bernau GERMANY Phone: 0049-1724105015 E-Mail: m_graul at yahoo.de IMCA-Member: 2113 (International Meteorite Collectors Association) Web: www.meteorite-mirko.de __________________________________________________________ Gesendet von Yahoo! Mail. Dem pfiffigeren Posteingang. http://de.overview.mail.yahoo.com From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Tue Jul 22 18:07:27 2008 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 15:07:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad: 50 one-cent meteorites ending now on ebay Message-ID: <361740.17764.qm@web33107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello again, it is that day of the week, EBAY day! I will have only one more ebay sale this summer, so if you want something either on ebay or from my website, now is the time. I will be down south on a meteorite expedition for the entire month of August. http://www.meteorite.com/farmer/ See the link above linking all of my auctions from both of my ebay usernames. I have some wonderful pieces ending this week, Nice Fukang, 500 gram Muonionalusta slice, Nininger/ASU Admire, etc many goodies, take a look, many are still at one cent. Michael Farmer From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Tue Jul 22 18:32:42 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 15:32:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Scientists Explore Ways To Meet Threat Of An Asteroid Strike Message-ID: <200807222232.PAA21275@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/health/bal-te.asteroid19jul19,0,7629943.story 'Duck!' won't save the day Scientists explore ways to meet threat of an asteroid strike By Frank D. Roylance Baltimore Sun July 19, 2008 An asteroid hurtles toward Earth, threatening devastation. A team of attractive young scientists and engineers launches a rocket that crashes into the asteroid and knocks it off course - just in the nick of time. But wait. The crash pushes the giant space rock toward a "keyhole" in space: a tiny window that guarantees that the asteroid will come back and obliterate some hapless city in the future. What to do? A scruffy grad student raises his hand. How about a "gravity tractor" to tow it off course? Real-life scientists are actually exploring the gravity tractor, the keyhole problem and other issues surrounding the very real, if remote, danger that a comet or asteroid will some day cross Earth's orbital path at precisely the wrong time. A crowd of them met this week in Baltimore as part of the "Asteroids, Comets, Meteors 2008" conference sponsored by the Johns Hopkins University's Applied Physics Laboratory. It's not an idle concern. On June 30, 1908, astronomers say, a comet exploded over a remote area of Russia with the force of a 10-megaton nuclear bomb. The "Tunguska" impact, as it's known, flattened 80 million trees over 830 square miles - that's enough destructive power to devastate a city of millions, had it struck one. Since 1950, geologists have identified more than 160 prehistoric meteor impact craters on Earth, and several new ones are found each year, according to the Earth Impact Database maintained by the University of New Brunswick in Canada. Scientists presume that far more have been obliterated by erosion and plate tectonics. And most objects that strike Earth probably fall into the oceans. NASA supports four full-time sky surveys to find and track every space rock orbiting the sun that could threaten Earth. So far, scientists have found close to 1,000 at least a kilometer in size -big enough to cause global problems. But they think that may be only 90 percent of the total. There are also likely to be tens of thousands more rocks big enough to threaten whole cities and millions of human lives. The search programs estimate they've found only a small percentage of those. One key member of Congress says the U.S. is not doing enough to understand and plan for such threats. Republican Dana Rohrabacher , who represents Southern California's conservative 46th District, is a former chairman of the House Subcommittee on Space and Aeronautics and a senior member of the House Committee on Science. "It doesn't take a genius to recognize there is a potential threat to our planet that could well cause ... the loss of millions and millions of people," he told the scientists gathered in Baltimore. "We are not prepared, and it's not something that would cost a gazillion dollars to be prepared for." Vital observatory He urged the scientists to lobby Congress for funds to help international efforts in the field and to prevent proposed budget cuts in NASA's own search programs. In particular, he argued for a rescue of the Arecibo Observatory in Puerto Rico. Radar astronomy from Arecibo enhances the accuracy of optical tracking of asteroids. But the National Science Foundation has recommended cuts that could lead to its closure. "We know what can happen if we just sit by and wait, and pray," Rohrabacher said. So far, scientists haven't found any dangerous space objects on a path toward Earth. But they are closely watching an asteroid called 99942 Apophis, a rock with a diameter of 700 to 1,000 feet, discovered in 2004. Apophis caused a brief sensation when initial orbit calculations gave it a 2.7 percent chance of smashing into Earth in 2029 - by far the most serious threat ever identified. Subsequent observations of its orbit eliminated the possibility of a 2029 collision, but scientists still rate the chances of an impact at 1 in 45,000 when the asteroid returns in 2036. At this week's conference in Baltimore, Jon D. Giorgini, a senior analyst with the Solar System Dynamics group at NASA's Jet Propulsion Lab, said 1 in 45,000 is still regarded as a "historically high" risk, a once-in-800-years event. The problem, he said, is that precise measurements of the threat from Apophis won't be possible for years. Too many factors have to be understood and evaluated for a precise fix on the asteroid's path. Solar wind alone can deflect the asteroid by up to 18.6 million miles between now and 2036, Giorgini said. And the tiny gravitational influence of other asteroids could move it by twice the width of Earth, according to a paper Giorgini published this year in the journal Icarus. Scientists will need new optical observations in 2011 and radar observations from Arecibo in 2012 and 2013 to refine their Apophis calculations. The Jet Propulsion Lab's Paul W. Chodas reported on work he has done to estimate how much warning we can expect of an asteroid headed for a collision with Earth. The majority of objects miss Earth entirely, of course. But Chodas simulated 1,000 collisions with asteroids of various sizes and calculated how long after each object's discovery it would take astronomers with optical telescopes to warn of a 50 percent risk of collision. All of the largest objects would reach that warning point before impact, most within five years of discovery. "Including radar buys us about nine months more time," he said. But for objects as small as 460 feet across, it would be 18 years before 75 percent reached the point at which scientists could determine a 50 percent risk of a strike. Radar cuts that to 15 years. But 20 percent of those objects would strike Earth before they were discovered. With enough warning, humans could come up with a scheme to deflect a dangerous comet or asteroid before it strikes. The first tactic would likely require smacking it with "impacters" or explosives to shove it off course. The 'keyhole' factor But the JPL's Donald K. Yeomans noted that an asteroid like Apophis might be deflected by an impacter onto a course that sends it (or fragments of it) through a "keyhole" in space that makes collision with Earth on a later orbit all but inevitable. He and several colleagues proposed a "gravity tractor" - a spacecraft equipped with thrusters and a radar transponder to report its precise position. Launched simultaneously with the asteroid impacter, the unmanned tractor would take a position just above the asteroid in, say 2028. Scientists on the ground would use its radar transponder to determine the asteroid's precise course. All of this, according to Yeomans, is possible with current technology, and "it's not that hard." If the impact sends the asteroid toward the keyhole for a collision with Earth in 2049, the tractor would go into action. Using only its thrusters and the weak gravitational attraction between itself and the asteroid - no cables or chains - the tractor would begin to tug the big rock onto another course. The gravitational pull is "very tiny," Yeomans conceded, barely 0.16 inch per second for a 460-foot asteroid. "But it's acceleration, and over 21 years it can amount to quite a bit." The tractor doesn't have to move the asteroid a distance equal to the diameter of Earth to avoid a collision, only the width of the keyhole in space it's trying to avoid - about 2,000 feet wide in the case of Apophis. The bottom line, said Yeomans: "In 200 days of tractoring the asteroid ... it could be moved completely off the 2049 keyhole, thus saving the world from imminent disaster." From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Tue Jul 22 18:49:11 2008 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 15:49:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] New Toluca scam on ebay Message-ID: <761447.51498.qm@web33102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/bandedgila_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZQQ_mdoZ Take a look at this guy, selling piles of Magnetite as Toluca meteorites. I am concerned because they do resemble meteorites to the lesser informed and I have lots of Toluca for sale. Michael Farmer From dragonsoup at msn.com Tue Jul 22 19:04:31 2008 From: dragonsoup at msn.com (Maria Haas) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 16:04:31 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Gary Foote Recovery Auction Message-ID: Hello Everyone, As much as I have hesitated to have a cut-off date for items donated for the Gary Foote Recovery Auction, I am going to have to so that I can get the auction started. If you could, please have items (or email me pictures and descriptions of items) at my house by 12:00 Noon PST on Thursday, July 24th. Contact me off-list for my address if you don't already have it. Please look in your meteorite shrines, open up those cabinets and look inside those boxes under your desk for any meteorites or meteorite-related collectables you can part with. This is an occasion where anything you can do will make a huge difference in Gary and CJ's life. I have a seven-day silent auction planned and have some really terrific items to auction. Pictures, descriptions, minimum bids and auction rules will be up on John Gwilliam's website at http://meteoriteimpact.com/footeauction.htm soon. Bids will be taken via email and telephone to me and each item will be updated daily at 7:00 pm PST with the highest bid. I prefer that the successful bidders pay via PayPal but if that doesn't work for you, please let me know prior to bidding on an item and we will work something out. Please don't hesitate to contact me with any questions. I don't want to get too gushy here but I have to tell you all something. Being the middleperson when you all get together to help someone is just the nicest, heartwarming feeling ever. Thank you so very much for your support and thank you for what you have done for Gary and CJ. I'll post again to let you know when the auction is starting. My best to you, Maria From meteorites at optushome.com.au Tue Jul 22 19:14:59 2008 From: meteorites at optushome.com.au (Norbert & Heike Kammel) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 09:14:59 +1000 Subject: [meteorite-list] New Toluca scam on ebay In-Reply-To: <761447.51498.qm@web33102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <761447.51498.qm@web33102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <488669F3.2070704@optushome.com.au> Hi Mike and all, a friend of mine brought me a piece of that material as a gift when he was in Mexico early this year, being told it is a Toluca. It certainly aint Toluca and no meteorite. That stuff seems to be quite common in the Toluca area. Folks, better buy from those you trust! If Mike is selling Toluca, it IS Toluca! Just my 5 Aussie Cents, Norbert Kammel IMCA # 3420 www.rocksonfire.com Michael Farmer wrote: > http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/bandedgila_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZQQ_mdoZ > > Take a look at this guy, selling piles of Magnetite as Toluca meteorites. > I am concerned because they do resemble meteorites to the lesser informed and I have lots of Toluca for sale. > > Michael Farmer > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Tue Jul 22 19:54:55 2008 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 18:54:55 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ceres May Be An Asteroid Impersonator References: <200807172325.QAA06734@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <053a01c8ec56$5801e180$db5de146@ATARIENGINE> Hi, All, I note with horror that (at least) one Listoid has responded to this press release by saying "now that science has decided..." Whoa! Back up! No, "science" has not decided! One researcher with a Wild Hare -- I mean, a Wild Speculation -- has proposed it. That's an entirely different matter. The press release says, "it was a recently developed model of the early solar system that prompted McKinnon..." You will note that the developer of the computer model distances himself from the notion: "Bottke says... 'It is indeed possible that he is correct, but I would not bet for it at this point.' " The problem with the Kuiper Belt and the rest of the outer Outer System is that the objects that live there cannot have been born there. The solar system starts as a flat protoplanetary disk of dust and gas. What its temperature, rate of cooling, density distribution, and physical characteristics were is a matter for guesses. So we start with guesses, our best guesses, yes, but they are guesses just the same. Dust sticks together and makes particles; particles bump together and make lumps, and so on until a big body is formed. That's the general idea. To make a similar body at a greater distance than another, there must be the same mass of materials available everywhere in the disk. But when we look at stars that currently have protoplanetary disks, that's not what we see. We see a lot of mass in close and the disk thins out rapidly toward the edges. When we started discovering solar systems of other stars, we saw system after system with super-Jupiters orbiting closer to their stars than Mercury does to ours. Astronomers were flabber-ghasted. What happened? Well, if your protoplanetary disk has a lot of matter, as a planet forms it's orbiting through thick dust which drags its speed down and makes its orbit shrink. You keep encountering new dust and gas; you get fatter and fatter but orbit closer and closer until you reach the inner edge of the protoplanetary disk and run out of dust, but by then, you're three Jupiters fat and you're sitting on the doorstep of your star! Our solar system was not a mass-rich protoplanetary disk, because that didn't happen here. So the likelihood of Kuiper Belt objects (or comets) forming where the Kuiper Belt is now is very small. There simply wasn't enough mass out there. Somewhere out around 5-10 AU, podner, there's a place where ice condenses. In from there, rock vapor condenses. When they get to accreting, icy-rocky bodies form and shuffle their orbits. If an icy-rocky body gets big enough, it starts grabbing gas, and you get a Jupiter. If an ice-only body gets big enough, it starts grabbing gas, and you get a Saturn. Big bodies have an impressive way of winning orbital disputes with smaller bodies. Ceres and Pluto (density 2.0-2.1) are very much alike and the two of them were likely born in the same neighborhood. They both moved out of the 'hood, Ceres in, to the edge of the City, and Pluto headed for the far Suburbs. Planets grow apart; you lose touch after so long... There are some others that stayed, still hang out in the old neighborhood -- Ganymede, Callisto, Titan (density 1.8-1.9) and Io, Europa (density ~3.0) -- they joined gangs. I could do a complete flip-flop on this and suppose that Pluto and all the Plutinos are a "planet" that never came together because of the influence of Neptune, all out at 40 AU. But the same thing could have happened much further in and they all marched outward as Neptune moved out. And so on... there are scores of possibilities and no way to know for sure. The current craze for computer simulation resembles the last century's "Search for Planet X" (which ended with the discovery of Pluto nowhere near where it was supposed to be). "Planet X" was searched for by complex and intricate mathematics, the "method of residuals," the "computer simulation" of those days. It worked magically for Neptune and failed miserably for everything else... The dumbest statement in the entire press release is this one: "If... Bill McKinnon's hunch is right, the largest asteroid in the solar system isn't an asteroid at all." Duh. There is no "Regulation Asteroid, One (1)." There are asteroids that are Rock; there are asteroids that are Iron; there are asteroids that are Comets hiding out in disguise. The Asteroid Zone is a junkheap, a rubbish bin, it's your grandparents' basement -- it's crammed with every kind of stuff imaginable. The variety is great. There are 83 classes of iron asteroids and 100 uniques; there are stone asteroids that are more kinds of rock bodies than there are letters of the alphabet (counting subgroups); there is probably stuff we don't even know about; and you're going to tell Ceres it doesn't belong because it's a "little Pluto"? Because it's "not like" the other Asteroids? Because it's the fat round kid on the block? Stupid. Standard Disclaimer Again: This story is a Press Release, so there's no way to know what the heck McKinnon actually said. Did Pluto form in the Asteroid Zone and go out? Did Ceres form at 40 AU and spiral in? Did they both start at 5-10 AU and go their separate ways? Can't tell what he meant from the Press Release. So, Hire a Press Agent who speaks Hype; have him write punchy Crap; then, Publish it. That's how you do Science... Isn't it? Sterling K. Webb ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Baalke" To: "Meteorite Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 6:25 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Ceres May Be An Asteroid Impersonator http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/34157/title/Ceres_may_be_an_asteroid_impersonator Ceres may be an asteroid impersonator By Ron Cowen Science News July 15, 2008 The largest member of the asteroid belt could have emigrated from the solar system's fringe If planetary scientist Bill McKinnon's hunch is right, the largest asteroid in the solar system isn't an asteroid at all. Ceres, as the 470-kilometer-wide object is called, may be a relative of Pluto that formed at the solar system's fringes but came in from the cold several billion years ago. McKinnon, based at Washington University in St. Louis, said he was first struck by Ceres' unusually low density - more similar to icy comets from the outer solar system than the rocky bodies found in the asteroid belt that lies between the orbits of Mars and Jupiter. The density of Ceres, referred to as a dwarf planet, is only slightly higher than that of Pluto. Models suggest Ceres "looks remarkably Pluto-like," McKinnon says. But it was a recently developed model of the early solar system that prompted McKinnon to formally propose that Ceres might be an escapee from the Kuiper belt, an outer solar system reservoir of frozen bodies that includes Pluto. He presented his proposal July 15 in Baltimore at the Asteroids, Comets, Meteors conference. According to the model, developed by researchers including Hal Levison and Bill Bottke of the Southwest Research Institute in Boulder, Colo., and Alessandro Morbidelli of Observatory of the C??te d'Azur in Nice, France, the orbits of the outer four planets - Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune - were initially packed much closer together than they are today. Beyond these planets resided a band of dust, ice and gas particles. Over time, as some of these particles leaked inward, their gravitational tug lengthened the distance between the orbs. For instance, Jupiter migrated inward, while Saturn moved outward. At some point, according to the theory, Saturn reached a gravitational sweet spot: The time it took to go around the sun became exactly twice that of Jupiter's. That interplay strengthened the planets' mutual tug, and ultimately hurled Uranus and Neptune into the outlying band of dust, ice and gas. The entry of Uranus and Neptune scattered debris from the chilly band, sending some of its denizens into the inner solar system. That's how Ceres might have migrated from the outer solar system into the asteroid belt, McKinnon suggests. "We are saying that many objects from the outer solar system - what we call the primordial disk of comets that went on to produce the Kuiper belt - are captured in the outer part of the asteroid belt as a byproduct of the model," Bottke says. He and Levison presented updated versions of the theory at the meeting just before McKinnon's presentation. "I consider McKinnon's idea as something of a thought balloon to stimulate thinking," Bottke says. "It is indeed possible that he is correct, but I would not bet for it at this point." Additional information on Ceres' composition, to be gathered by NASA's Dawn spacecraft when it visits Ceres in 2015, could clarify the body's origin. But proof may require measuring the ratio of hydrogen to its heavier isotope, deuterium, in the ices or water vapor venting from the body, which would require a mission beyond Dawn, McKinnon says. If the ratio matches that observed in comets, "the case is closed" for Ceres being an emigre to the asteroid belt, he says. ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoritemall at yahoo.com Tue Jul 22 19:54:31 2008 From: meteoritemall at yahoo.com (Ruben Garcia) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 16:54:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] New Toluca scam on ebay In-Reply-To: <761447.51498.qm@web33102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <77236.2530.qm@web32506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mike, I agree, and actually posted the same thing right here on the list Sunday night. His Toluca has quartz in it! Ruben Garcia Phoenix, Arizona http://www.mr-meteorite.com http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=meteorfright&p=v --- On Tue, 7/22/08, Michael Farmer wrote: > From: Michael Farmer > Subject: [meteorite-list] New Toluca scam on ebay > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Tuesday, July 22, 2008, 3:49 PM > http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/bandedgila_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZQQ_mdoZ > > Take a look at this guy, selling piles of Magnetite as > Toluca meteorites. > I am concerned because they do resemble meteorites to the > lesser informed and I have lots of Toluca for sale. > > Michael Farmer > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Tue Jul 22 20:37:11 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 17:37:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Bolides and Meteorite Falls Conference Message-ID: <200807230037.RAA26130@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://www.bolides09.com/ Bolides and Meteorite Falls International conference on the occasion of the 50th anniversary of the Pribram meteorite fall, and the 80th birthday of Zdenek Ceplecha May 10-15, 2009 Hotel Michael, Prague, Czech Republic Invitation Dear All, We would like to take this advantage and to invite you to wonderful spring Prague to meet other colleagues, to share your experiences and to celebrate with us the 50th anniversary of the Pribram meteorite fall. The Pribram meteorite fall on April 7, 1959 was the first scientifically observed meteorite fall. The associated bolide was captured by the photographic cameras of the double-station meteor observation program initiated and led by the Czech astronomer, Zdenek Ceplecha, who also analyzed all the available data and predicted the location of the meteorites. To date there have been only 9 cases where a meteorite dropping bolide was observed instrumentally, so that the trajectory and orbit could be determined precisely and - at the same time - the meteorite was recovered. Nevertheless, thanks to various observational programs and modeling efforts, our understanding of bolides and associated phenomena has increased dramatically over the past 50 years. We believe, that the conference will be devoted not only to celebrating the anniversary, but also to offer a forum to discuss recent achievements in this field and future programs. We are looking forward to meeting you in Prague! On behalf of the Organizing Committee Pavel Spurny Astronomical Institute of the Academy of Sciences of the Czech Republic Jiri Borovicka Astronomical Institute of the Academy of Sciences of the Czech Republic From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Tue Jul 22 20:40:32 2008 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 19:40:32 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] LOOK UP! TOO LATE... Message-ID: <054b01c8ec5c$b767aaf0$db5de146@ATARIENGINE> http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/080722-st-star-found.html The brightest exploding star, or nova, in the last ten years was discovered by ESA's Xray telescope in October, 2007, months after it brightened into clear naked-eye visibility. The embarassing thing is... nobody saw it. Not one optical telescope, not one observatory, not any amateur astronomer, not any sky-weatcher, not even any "nova- hunter" saw it when it went off on June 5, 2007. Nobody. It's taken all this time to track down images of the nova in automated sky surveys and the like and to verify it really did take place. It's now named V598 Puppis. Is anybody looking up? If we can miss a naked-eye bright nova, what makes anybody think we'd see, oh, say, a big impactor until two days before? Sterling K. Webb From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Tue Jul 22 20:44:52 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 17:44:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Phoenix Completes Longest Work Shift Message-ID: <200807230044.RAA28361@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/phoenix/release.php?ArticleID=1800 Phoenix Completes Longest Work Shift Jet Propulsion Laboratory July 22, 2008 TUCSON, Ariz. -- Phoenix early Tuesday finished its longest work shift of the mission. The lander stayed awake for 33 hours, completing tasks that included rasping and scraping by the robotic arm, in addition to atmosphere observations in coordination with simultaneous observations by NASA's Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter. "Our rasping test yesterday gave us enough confidence that we're now planning for the next use of the rasp to be for acquiring a sample to be delivered to TEGA," said Phoenix project manager Barry Goldstein of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. TEGA is Phoenix's Thermal and Evolved-Gas Analyzer, an instrument that heats samples in small ovens and uses a mass spectrometer to study the vapors driven off by the heating. As preparation for that sample delivery in coming days, the Phoenix team developed plans to command the lander Tuesday evening to conduct 80 scrapings of the bottom of a trench informally named "Snow White." The scraping is designed to freshly expose frozen material and ready the surface for using the rasp. The Phoenix mission is led by Peter Smith of the University of Arizona with project management at JPL and development partnership at Lockheed Martin, Denver. International contributions come from the Canadian Space Agency; the University of Neuchatel; the universities of Copenhagen and Aarhus, Denmark; Max Planck Institute, Germany; and the Finnish Meteorological Institute. For more about Phoenix, visit: http://www.nasa.gov/phoenix and http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu. Media contacts: Guy Webster 818-354-6278 Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. guy.webster at jpl.nasa.gov Sara Hammond 520-626-1974 University of Arizona, Tucson shammond at lpl.arizona.edu Dwayne Brown 202-358-1726 NASA Headquarters dwayne.c.brown at nasa.gov From Impactika at aol.com Tue Jul 22 22:29:26 2008 From: Impactika at aol.com (Impactika at aol.com) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 22:29:26 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - new pieces Message-ID: Hello List, Loooooong time I haven't posted an Ad! I just finished adding a bunch of interesting pieces to my Catalog. There is something for everybody. Some rare Texas meteorites from TCU for the Texan collectors, when is the last time you saw some Tule Draw or Cee Vee?. And a Beaver Creek for the Canadian collectors. Some cute baby-Brenhams for those of you who could not afford Steve "Brenham" Arnold's giant paperweight. And Steve tells me that in fact he found very very few baby-Brenhams, only big ones. And speaking of big, I also posted a large Tatahouine, and a Huge one. Go take a look: _http://www.impactika.com/Metlist.htm_ (http://www.impactika.com/Metlist.htm) And I have a few more interesting pieces to post. Anybody interested by La Primitiva or PaloDuro, please contact me off-list. Thanks. Anne M. Black www.IMPACTIKA.com IMPACTIKA at aol.com Vice-President of IMCA www.IMCA.cc **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) From m42protosun at aol.com Wed Jul 23 04:57:26 2008 From: m42protosun at aol.com (m42protosun at aol.com) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 04:57:26 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] New Toluca scam on ebay In-Reply-To: <761447.51498.qm@web33102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <761447.51498.qm@web33102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CABAB94386ADD3-8BC-25C6@WEBMAIL-MB15.sysops.aol.com> Hello Michael, I agree with you. Pieces of Magnetite/Hematite are the most often offered meteoritewrongs sold to newcomers. Because I'm a beginner to I've bought even from two IMCA members two pieces of 'Mekong river iron' as Nantans. Month later I detected that they were wrongs. Asking for money back makes them very angry but I won. The easiest formula for detecting offers of iron wrongs is to estimate the specific density. Most seller declare length, depth and hight anf weight of the item. Calculate now V = (L x D x H x Pi / 6). This is the nearest estimated volume of an inlet speroid, that means a little more less in volume. Divide now the given weight by this value and you get a specifiv density which is hiigher then the original. If this value is less than 7.5 this must be a meteoritewrong if is a big piece ore it is only shale if it is a small piece. With this formula I'm "hunting" fake sellers on ebay. Sincerely Uwe -----Urspr?ngliche Mitteilung----- Von: Michael Farmer An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Verschickt: Mi., 23. Jul. 2008, 0:49 Thema: [meteorite-list] New Toluca scam on ebay http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/bandedgila_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZQQ_mdoZ Take a look at this guy, selling piles of Magnetite as Toluca meteorites. I am concerned because they do resemble meteorites to the lesser informed and I have lots of Toluca for sale. Michael Farmer ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ________________________________________________________________________ AOL eMail auf Ihrem Handy! Ab sofort k?nnen Sie auch unterwegs Ihre AOL email abrufen. Registrieren Sie sich jetzt kostenlos. From m42protosun at aol.com Wed Jul 23 06:09:37 2008 From: m42protosun at aol.com (m42protosun at aol.com) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 06:09:37 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] New Toluca scam on ebay - a formula to detect metwrongs In-Reply-To: <761447.51498.qm@web33102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <761447.51498.qm@web33102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CABAC3590DB3E5-1270-24E8@FWM-D10.sysops.aol.com> Hello Michael, I agree with you. Pieces of Magnetite/Hematite are the most often offered meteoritewrongs sold to newcomers. Because I'm a beginner to I've bought even from two IMCA members two pieces of 'Mekong river iron' as Nantans. Month later I detected that they were wrongs. Asking for money back makes them very angry but I won. The easiest formula for detecting offers of iron wrongs is to estimate the specific density. Most seller declare length, depth and hight anf weight of the item. Calculate now V = (L x D x H x Pi / 6). This is the nearest estimated volume of an inlet speroid, that means a little more less in volume. Divide now the given weight by this value and you get a specifiv density which is hiigher then the original. If this value is less than 7.5 this must be a meteoritewrong if is a big piece ore it is only shale if it is a small piece. With this formula I'm "hunting" fake sellers on ebay. Sincerely Uwe -----Urspr?ngliche Mitteilung----- Von: Michael Farmer An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Verschickt: Mi., 23. Jul. 2008, 0:49 Thema: [meteorite-list] New Toluca scam on ebay http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/bandedgila_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZQQ_mdoZ Take a look at this guy, selling piles of Magnetite as Toluca meteorites. I am concerned because they do resemble meteorites to the lesser informed and I have lots of Toluca for sale. Michael Farmer ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ________________________________________________________________________ AOL eMail auf Ihrem Handy! Ab sofort k?nnen Sie auch unterwegs Ihre AOL email abrufen. Registrieren Sie sich jetzt kostenlos. From michael at spacerocksinc.com Wed Jul 23 07:55:16 2008 From: michael at spacerocksinc.com (Michael Johnson) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 04:55:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - July 23, 2008 Message-ID: <23350352.483791216814116622.JavaMail.root@mbs4.homesteadmail.com> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/July_23_2008.html From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Wed Jul 23 08:19:24 2008 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 14:19:24 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] William Barriere - Youth of Canada be warned! In-Reply-To: <002f01c8ec78$468d11a0$6501a8c0@windows9bb74fe> References: <001d01c8eb69$0e1834e0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2><003001c8eb9c$592fa7a0$6501a8c0@windows9bb74fe> <004801c8ebe6$f5db1400$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> <002f01c8ec78$468d11a0$6501a8c0@windows9bb74fe> Message-ID: <008501c8ecbe$596c72c0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Interesting, in which way? Seems someone in the Chicago Field hasn't made his homework. Chicago has such an important collection only, because they bought as start all specimens, which the mightiest meteorite dealer in USA of his times brought to the Columbian exhibition in 1893. Henry Ward, was his name. In 1912 Chicago Field outbid the Smithonian and AMNH in New York, and purchased dealer Ward's collection from his widow for inflation-adjusted 1.8 million USD. And of course in the following decades they enlarged the collection also in buying from dealers too. At least they aren't as rotten as docteure Julia in the comic strip, wangling innocent children out of their finds - cause I read, the Chicago Field bought 2.7kg of Park Forest, paying to the finders 30k$. Didn't follow that story, but wasn't that T-Rex, the main exhibit, which the Field museum bought for 8 million or so, recovered by a dealers company too? And Dinos are a much more sensible complex than meteorites. Well and the famous instrument collection from the Adler Planetarium, certainly items of a cultural heritage according the modern conception, hence much more problematic than stones from space, Max Adler bought naturally from a dealer, Anton Mensing. It is and it always was the practise of all museums no matter which field of collection they plough to amass their collections by donations, direct or monetary ones, and by purchases from dealers. So I'm asking, this dealer bashing and the call for - in the end one might call it in extreme "expropriation" of owners or finders or dealers - a relatively problematic intervention in the personal basic rights at least in states under the rule of laws - is this meanwhile commonplace or the opinion of a very few, whatever their intention may be? Martin -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Rob Wesel [mailto:nakhladog at comcast.net] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 23. Juli 2008 05:58 An: Martin Altmann Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] William Barriere - Youth of Canada be warned! The very picture of Park Forest. The Alder Planetarium and Chicago Field Museum warning the public about "dealers" The dealers riding in with fists full of cash. Rob Wesel http://www.nakhladogmeteorites.com ------------------ We are the music makers... and we are the dreamers of the dreams. Willy Wonka, 1971 From meteoritefinder at gmail.com Wed Jul 23 12:19:25 2008 From: meteoritefinder at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 09:19:25 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Art /ad/ something really new. Message-ID: <468bf6050807230919g41111cf8v4b6181234bdcca0f@mail.gmail.com> Hello everyone I have something new to offer meteorite lovers. Abstract Meteorite art that is based on the widmanstatten pattern of meteorites. The artist is Arlene Schlazer and she is an avid meteorite collector and she uses her collection to produce the art. You can learn more about her and the art work here. http://www.meteoritefinder.com/sale.htm Just click on the picture and you will see 7 offerings at this time. Trust me when I say the art is so much better in person, if you like the picture the actual art will floor you it is really stunning in person. Please we would like to hear what you think about these offerings. -- Mike Miller 230 Greenway Dr. Kingman Az 86401 www.meteoritefinder.com 928-753-6825 From bristolia at yahoo.com Wed Jul 23 14:16:47 2008 From: bristolia at yahoo.com (Paul) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 11:16:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Problem With "Catalog of Meteorites" Software Problem Message-ID: <818958.94997.qm@web36204.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dear Listmembers; I am having a problem with the CD-ROM bibliography, which comes with the Catalog of Meteorites, 5th Edition, by Grady and others. I have ?tried installing it on my Latitude Dell Laptop with Windows XP on it. I tried running it in order to get the bibliography for the Atlanta, Greenwell Springs, and Red River meteorites. When I try opening it tells me that ?CTL3D.DLL? is missing. Does anyone know what I can do about it. I tried reinstalling it and gives me the same error message. Yours, Paul H. From yellowengine at earthlink.net Wed Jul 23 14:41:36 2008 From: yellowengine at earthlink.net (RJP) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 12:41:36 -0600 (GMT-06:00) Subject: [meteorite-list] 218g Portales Valley Message-ID: <32417241.1216838496465.JavaMail.root@mswamui-cedar.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Good afternoon. I would like to know if anyone would be seriously interested in generous (218g) metal-rich slice of Portales Valley. This is a stunning thin slice with great surface area; the perfect centerpiece for any collection. I am in no hurry to sell gem, but will consider doing so if a reasonable offer is made. If interested, please email yellowengine at earthlink.net for photos and additional information. Thank you. Kind Regards, Ryan Pawelski From stm at bellsouth.net Wed Jul 23 15:17:42 2008 From: stm at bellsouth.net (Sean T. Murray) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 15:17:42 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Problem With "Catalog of Meteorites" SoftwareProblem References: <818958.94997.qm@web36204.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <722CD1FB6F8A40499881C32B6A6CE143@platinum> My guess is that this must be a Visial Basic program: CTL3D.DLL and CTL3DV2.DLL are Microsoft supplied support files.* Normally, they are installed with the Windows operating system. Some programs will install modified versions of those files that will cause other programs to not function.* CTL3D.DLL is placed in the Windows directory in the SYSTEM directory.* CTL3DV2.DLL is also placed in the SYSTEM directory except if the O.S. is Windows NT (in which case it is placed in the SYSTEM32 directory). See if you can find it on the CD, then shove a copy of it where they say: in Windows/System If theres already one in there, dont delete it, just in case, but move it out to somewhere else, maybe a 'New Folder', stick in the good one off the CD... If you can't find the file on the CD, I found the following on Microsoft Support Knowledge base: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/97361 http://support.microsoft.com/kb/113898 Both point to the DLL you can download from MS: http://download.microsoft.com/download/platformsdk/file/3.1/w31/en-us/ctl3d.exe Sean ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 2:16 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Problem With "Catalog of Meteorites" SoftwareProblem > Dear Listmembers; > > I am having a problem with the CD-ROM bibliography, which > comes with the Catalog of Meteorites, 5th Edition, by Grady > and others. I have ?tried installing it on my Latitude Dell Laptop > with Windows XP on it. I tried running it in order to get the > bibliography for the Atlanta, Greenwell Springs, and Red River > meteorites. When I try opening it tells me that ?CTL3D.DLL? > is missing. Does anyone know what I can do about it. I tried > reinstalling it and gives me the same error message. > > Yours, > > Paul H. > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Wed Jul 23 15:25:47 2008 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 21:25:47 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Problem With "Catalog of Meteorites"SoftwareProblem In-Reply-To: <722CD1FB6F8A40499881C32B6A6CE143@platinum> References: <818958.94997.qm@web36204.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <722CD1FB6F8A40499881C32B6A6CE143@platinum> Message-ID: <004601c8ecf9$eaa36dd0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> I had a problem with the CD too, it was running only on Windows versions older than Windows 95. The error which occurred in the other versions was, that certain variables weren't given a value, hence seems to be an error in the program itself. So it was running only, when you looked for a single meteorite, combined sarches weren't possible anymore :-( Martin -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Sean T. Murray Gesendet: Mittwoch, 23. Juli 2008 21:18 An: Paul; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Problem With "Catalog of Meteorites"SoftwareProblem My guess is that this must be a Visial Basic program: CTL3D.DLL and CTL3DV2.DLL are Microsoft supplied support files.* Normally, they are installed with the Windows operating system. Some programs will install modified versions of those files that will cause other programs to not function.* CTL3D.DLL is placed in the Windows directory in the SYSTEM directory.* CTL3DV2.DLL is also placed in the SYSTEM directory except if the O.S. is Windows NT (in which case it is placed in the SYSTEM32 directory). See if you can find it on the CD, then shove a copy of it where they say: in Windows/System If theres already one in there, dont delete it, just in case, but move it out to somewhere else, maybe a 'New Folder', stick in the good one off the CD... If you can't find the file on the CD, I found the following on Microsoft Support Knowledge base: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/97361 http://support.microsoft.com/kb/113898 Both point to the DLL you can download from MS: http://download.microsoft.com/download/platformsdk/file/3.1/w31/en-us/ctl3d. exe Sean ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 2:16 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Problem With "Catalog of Meteorites" SoftwareProblem > Dear Listmembers; > > I am having a problem with the CD-ROM bibliography, which > comes with the Catalog of Meteorites, 5th Edition, by Grady > and others. I have ?tried installing it on my Latitude Dell Laptop > with Windows XP on it. I tried running it in order to get the > bibliography for the Atlanta, Greenwell Springs, and Red River > meteorites. When I try opening it tells me that ?CTL3D.DLL? > is missing. Does anyone know what I can do about it. I tried > reinstalling it and gives me the same error message. > > Yours, > > Paul H. > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From geoking at notkin.net Wed Jul 23 15:36:22 2008 From: geoking at notkin.net (Notkin) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 12:36:22 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] "Field Guide to Meteors and Meteorites" - Two Thumbs Up! Message-ID: <8243BC14-5753-49F5-8619-64BD80D94C22@notkin.net> Dear Listees: Greetings all. I know Richard Norton and Lawrence Chitwood's new book "Field Guide to Meteors and Meteorites" has already been discussed here, but I just received my copy -- mine is signed, aren't you jealous : ) -- and it's such a terrific work I wanted to comment personally. This beautifully produced 288-page full color book is an absolute must for all meteorite enthusiasts, and completes a great trilogy on our favorite subject, alongside the Nortons' other two essential works: "Rocks from Space," and "The Cambridge Encyclopedia of Meteorites." Congratulations to Richard, and the late Lawrence Chitwood, and also to M-List member Dorothy Norton who was very involved with the work herself, contributing excellent scientific illustrations throughout, as well as editing and research. Dorothy just told me this morning that the initial printing has already sold out (!) so if you need a first edition snap it up quick wherever you can find it. On a personal note, I was thrilled by the invitation to contribute, in a very small way, to this important work by supplying meteorite photographs of specimens from the Oscar Monnig Collection, The Michael Farmer Meteorites Collection, and the Aerolite Meteorites Collection. Several other List members also contributed photos, and you'll enjoy seeing a number of familiar meteorite hunters faces in the "In The Field" chapter. Special thanks to my pal Sonny Clary who took a stellar photo of Steve Arnold #1 and myself at Brenham, which was also included in the book. If you haven't seen the "Field Guide to Meteors and Meteorites" yet, order it ASAP. A real beauty! With best wishes, Geoff N. www.aerolite.org www.campometeorites.com We DIG Space Rocks? From meteoritemall at yahoo.com Wed Jul 23 15:43:52 2008 From: meteoritemall at yahoo.com (Ruben Garcia) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 12:43:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] "Field Guide to Meteors and Meteorites" - Two Thumbs Up! In-Reply-To: <8243BC14-5753-49F5-8619-64BD80D94C22@notkin.net> Message-ID: <61849.9154.qm@web32505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hey Geoff, I want an autographed copy too! How did you get to be first in that line and how come you didn't tell me? I thought we were friends....... Ruben Garcia Phoenix, Arizona http://www.mr-meteorite.com http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=meteorfright&p=v --- On Wed, 7/23/08, Notkin wrote: > From: Notkin > Subject: [meteorite-list] "Field Guide to Meteors and Meteorites" - Two Thumbs Up! > To: "Meteorite List" > Date: Wednesday, July 23, 2008, 12:36 PM > Dear Listees: > > Greetings all. I know Richard Norton and Lawrence > Chitwood's new book > "Field Guide to Meteors and Meteorites" has > already been discussed > here, but I just received my copy -- mine is signed, > aren't you > jealous : ) -- and it's such a terrific work I wanted > to comment > personally. > > This beautifully produced 288-page full color book is an > absolute must > for all meteorite enthusiasts, and completes a great > trilogy on our > favorite subject, alongside the Nortons' other two > essential works: > "Rocks from Space," and "The Cambridge > Encyclopedia of Meteorites." > > Congratulations to Richard, and the late Lawrence Chitwood, > and also > to M-List member Dorothy Norton who was very involved with > the work > herself, contributing excellent scientific illustrations > throughout, > as well as editing and research. Dorothy just told me this > morning > that the initial printing has already sold out (!) so if > you need a > first edition snap it up quick wherever you can find it. > > On a personal note, I was thrilled by the invitation to > contribute, in > a very small way, to this important work by supplying > meteorite > photographs of specimens from the Oscar Monnig Collection, > The Michael > Farmer Meteorites Collection, and the Aerolite Meteorites > Collection. > Several other List members also contributed photos, and > you'll enjoy > seeing a number of familiar meteorite hunters faces in the > "In The > Field" chapter. Special thanks to my pal Sonny Clary > who took a > stellar photo of Steve Arnold #1 and myself at Brenham, > which was also > included in the book. > > If you haven't seen the "Field Guide to Meteors > and Meteorites" yet, > order it ASAP. A real beauty! > > > With best wishes, > > Geoff N. > > www.aerolite.org > www.campometeorites.com > > We DIG Space Rocks? > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Wed Jul 23 15:56:08 2008 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 14:56:08 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Problem With "Catalog of Meteorites" SoftwareProblem References: <818958.94997.qm@web36204.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <05a701c8ecfe$2690a0c0$db5de146@ATARIENGINE> Sean is right about that file. I had the Catalogue installed on an old Win95 machine and when I tried to install it on a new XP machine a few years later; I ran into the same problem. Being a risk-taker, I ran back over to my '95 machine, copied the file, noted the directory, and stuffed it in the same place in the XP machine, and it worked fine forever after. The Catalogue's "Insight Engine" will be the only activity on newer machines that ever looks for it or uses it. Sterling K. Webb ------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 1:16 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Problem With "Catalog of Meteorites" SoftwareProblem Dear Listmembers; I am having a problem with the CD-ROM bibliography, which comes with the Catalog of Meteorites, 5th Edition, by Grady and others. I have ?tried installing it on my Latitude Dell Laptop with Windows XP on it. I tried running it in order to get the bibliography for the Atlanta, Greenwell Springs, and Red River meteorites. When I try opening it tells me that ?CTL3D.DLL? is missing. Does anyone know what I can do about it. I tried reinstalling it and gives me the same error message. Yours, Paul H. ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From almitt at kconline.com Wed Jul 23 15:55:25 2008 From: almitt at kconline.com (ALMitt) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 15:55:25 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] "Field Guide to Meteors and Meteorites" - Two Thumbs Up! In-Reply-To: <8243BC14-5753-49F5-8619-64BD80D94C22@notkin.net> References: <8243BC14-5753-49F5-8619-64BD80D94C22@notkin.net> Message-ID: <48878CAD.4010305@kconline.com> Hi Geoff and all, I certainly second what Geoff has said after reviewing a copy of this wonderful book and it is a first class publication and no collector of meteorites or meteorite books should be without it!! I've tried unsuccessfully to buy copies of it all over the midwest. I've not received an answer yet from the publisher to buy a case or two. So looks like it is fast becoming a hard to find, newly published book. Congratulations to the Nortons on their effort to this wonderful resource. --AL Mitterling Notkin wrote: > Dear Listees: > > Greetings all. I know Richard Norton and Lawrence Chitwood's new book > "Field Guide to Meteors and Meteorites" has already been discussed > here, but I just received my copy -- mine is signed, aren't you > jealous : ) -- and it's such a terrific work I wanted to comment > personally. > > This beautifully produced 288-page full color book is an absolute > must for all meteorite enthusiasts, and completes a great trilogy on > our favorite subject, alongside the Nortons' other two essential > works: "Rocks from Space," and "The Cambridge Encyclopedia of > Meteorites." > > Congratulations to Richard, and the late Lawrence Chitwood, and also > to M-List member Dorothy Norton who was very involved with the work > herself, contributing excellent scientific illustrations throughout, > as well as editing and research. Dorothy just told me this morning > that the initial printing has already sold out (!) so if you need a > first edition snap it up quick wherever you can find it. > > On a personal note, I was thrilled by the invitation to contribute, > in a very small way, to this important work by supplying meteorite > photographs of specimens from the Oscar Monnig Collection, The > Michael Farmer Meteorites Collection, and the Aerolite Meteorites > Collection. Several other List members also contributed photos, and > you'll enjoy seeing a number of familiar meteorite hunters faces in > the "In The Field" chapter. Special thanks to my pal Sonny Clary who > took a stellar photo of Steve Arnold #1 and myself at Brenham, which > was also included in the book. > > If you haven't seen the "Field Guide to Meteors and Meteorites" yet, > order it ASAP. A real beauty! > > > With best wishes, > > Geoff N. From Impactika at aol.com Wed Jul 23 17:02:16 2008 From: Impactika at aol.com (Impactika at aol.com) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 17:02:16 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] "Field Guide to Meteors and Meteorites" - Two Thumbs Up! Message-ID: Hello Al and Geoff, and all, I have been trying to get a few cases too. And I finally got a response. It is sold out! And being reprinted. It will be a month, or 2, or....... before it is available again. And my copy is signed too! Are you both jealous? ;-) Anne M. Black _www.IMPACTIKA.com_ (http://www.IMPACTIKA.com) _IMPACTIKA at aol.com_ (mailto:IMPACTIKA at aol.com) Vice-President of IMCA _www.IMCA.cc_ (http://www.IMCA.cc) In a message dated 7/23/2008 1:55:50 PM Mountain Daylight Time, almitt at kconline.com writes: Hi Geoff and all, I certainly second what Geoff has said after reviewing a copy of this wonderful book and it is a first class publication and no collector of meteorites or meteorite books should be without it!! I've tried unsuccessfully to buy copies of it all over the midwest. I've not received an answer yet from the publisher to buy a case or two. So looks like it is fast becoming a hard to find, newly published book. Congratulations to the Nortons on their effort to this wonderful resource. --AL Mitterling Notkin wrote: > Dear Listees: > > Greetings all. I know Richard Norton and Lawrence Chitwood's new book > "Field Guide to Meteors and Meteorites" has already been discussed > here, but I just received my copy -- mine is signed, aren't you > jealous : ) -- and it's such a terrific work I wanted to comment > personally. > > This beautifully produced 288-page full color book is an absolute > must for all meteorite enthusiasts, and completes a great trilogy on > our favorite subject, alongside the Nortons' other two essential > works: "Rocks from Space," and "The Cambridge Encyclopedia of > Meteorites." > > Congratulations to Richard, and the late Lawrence Chitwood, and also > to M-List member Dorothy Norton who was very involved with the work > herself, contributing excellent scientific illustrations throughout, > as well as editing and research. Dorothy just told me this morning > that the initial printing has already sold out (!) so if you need a > first edition snap it up quick wherever you can find it. > > On a personal note, I was thrilled by the invitation to contribute, > in a very small way, to this important work by supplying meteorite > photographs of specimens from the Oscar Monnig Collection, The > Michael Farmer Meteorites Collection, and the Aerolite Meteorites > Collection. Several other List members also contributed photos, and > you'll enjoy seeing a number of familiar meteorite hunters faces in > the "In The Field" chapter. Special thanks to my pal Sonny Clary who > took a stellar photo of Steve Arnold #1 and myself at Brenham, which > was also included in the book. > > If you haven't seen the "Field Guide to Meteors and Meteorites" yet, > order it ASAP. A real beauty! > > > With best wishes, > > Geoff N. ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Wed Jul 23 17:20:15 2008 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 23:20:15 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] "Field Guide to Meteors and Meteorites" - TwoThumbs Up! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <005601c8ed09$e8f26f30$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Here in Germany it's still available, delivery time 3 days... -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Impactika at aol.com Gesendet: Mittwoch, 23. Juli 2008 23:02 An: almitt at kconline.com; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Cc: geoking at notkin.net Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] "Field Guide to Meteors and Meteorites" - TwoThumbs Up! Hello Al and Geoff, and all, I have been trying to get a few cases too. And I finally got a response. It is sold out! And being reprinted. It will be a month, or 2, or....... before it is available again. And my copy is signed too! Are you both jealous? ;-) Anne M. Black _www.IMPACTIKA.com_ (http://www.IMPACTIKA.com) _IMPACTIKA at aol.com_ (mailto:IMPACTIKA at aol.com) Vice-President of IMCA _www.IMCA.cc_ (http://www.IMCA.cc) In a message dated 7/23/2008 1:55:50 PM Mountain Daylight Time, almitt at kconline.com writes: Hi Geoff and all, I certainly second what Geoff has said after reviewing a copy of this wonderful book and it is a first class publication and no collector of meteorites or meteorite books should be without it!! I've tried unsuccessfully to buy copies of it all over the midwest. I've not received an answer yet from the publisher to buy a case or two. So looks like it is fast becoming a hard to find, newly published book. Congratulations to the Nortons on their effort to this wonderful resource. --AL Mitterling Notkin wrote: > Dear Listees: > > Greetings all. I know Richard Norton and Lawrence Chitwood's new book > "Field Guide to Meteors and Meteorites" has already been discussed > here, but I just received my copy -- mine is signed, aren't you > jealous : ) -- and it's such a terrific work I wanted to comment > personally. > > This beautifully produced 288-page full color book is an absolute > must for all meteorite enthusiasts, and completes a great trilogy on > our favorite subject, alongside the Nortons' other two essential > works: "Rocks from Space," and "The Cambridge Encyclopedia of > Meteorites." > > Congratulations to Richard, and the late Lawrence Chitwood, and also > to M-List member Dorothy Norton who was very involved with the work > herself, contributing excellent scientific illustrations throughout, > as well as editing and research. Dorothy just told me this morning > that the initial printing has already sold out (!) so if you need a > first edition snap it up quick wherever you can find it. > > On a personal note, I was thrilled by the invitation to contribute, > in a very small way, to this important work by supplying meteorite > photographs of specimens from the Oscar Monnig Collection, The > Michael Farmer Meteorites Collection, and the Aerolite Meteorites > Collection. Several other List members also contributed photos, and > you'll enjoy seeing a number of familiar meteorite hunters faces in > the "In The Field" chapter. Special thanks to my pal Sonny Clary who > took a stellar photo of Steve Arnold #1 and myself at Brenham, which > was also included in the book. > > If you haven't seen the "Field Guide to Meteors and Meteorites" yet, > order it ASAP. A real beauty! > > > With best wishes, > > Geoff N. ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Wed Jul 23 17:20:27 2008 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 23 Jul 2008 21:20:27 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] "Field Guide to Meteors and Meteorites" - Two Thumbs Up! Message-ID: Hello All, I just had a look at "amazon.de" (the German counterpart of "amazon.com") and got this piece of information: " Nur noch 4 St?ck verf?gbar - jetzt bestellen." = only four copies left - order (yours) now. So, ... conclusion: Two thumbs + two toes up! ;-) My copy isn't signed but: one of my three copies of "Rocks From Space" was signed by both Richard and Dorothy some years ago! These are the words of a tired but happy and retired teacher ;-) Bernd P.S.: Alice Cooper => School's out for summer, school's out forever ... so I'll now leave them kids alone ;-) From gsac at gmx.net Wed Jul 23 17:26:07 2008 From: gsac at gmx.net (Alexander Seidel) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 23:26:07 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] =?iso-8859-1?q?Fwd=3A__O=2E_R=2E_Norton=B4s_new_?= =?iso-8859-1?q?book?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080723212607.227320@gmx.net> Hi Anne, Al, Geoff, and the rest of the gang... It still seems to be available from US Amazon, at a very low price of $26.37! (I forward my earlier message on this again, sent to the list seven days ago) This is a wonderful book! Alex Berlin/Germany -------- Original-Nachricht -------- Datum: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 21:18:45 +0200 Von: "Alexander Seidel" An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: [meteorite-list] R. O. Norton?s new book Hello all, I wonder why on Earth everyone is so quiet about Richard O. Norton?s new wonderful book on this list: --->> "Field Guide to Meteors and Meteorites" (Patrick Moore?s Practical Astronomy Series) US Amazon offers it for only US$ 26.37 at the moment, have a look: http://www.amazon.com/Meteors-Meteorites-Patrick-Practical-Astronomy/dp/1848001568/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1216234990&sr=8-1 German Amazon said "still not available" a few days ago, while offering it much more (!) expensive on it?s website at the same instant. You may order it via your local bookshop here in Europe, but then again it will be much more expensive than US Amazon offers it right now. And it works! I just had my two copies in the mail today. With 11 days delivery time from US to Europe via the "expedited international shipping" option, and no customs tax in my case, this is a very good deal for a book order from the United States. And the price (see above) is almost unbeatable! So folks, what are you waiting for? :-) Alex Berlin/Germany ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From cynapse at charter.net Wed Jul 23 17:27:48 2008 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 17:27:48 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteor Crater in 3ishD In-Reply-To: <200807220031.RAA21113@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> References: <200807220031.RAA21113@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <8g8f8454volr1tc8obj18l2b6vtcdgn1h2@4ax.com> http://www.amazon.com/METEOR-CRATER-ViewMaster-Reel-Set/dp/B000HQG1Q4/ From lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu Wed Jul 23 17:30:58 2008 From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu (lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 14:30:58 -0700 (MST) Subject: [meteorite-list] 'Field Guide to Meteors and Meteorites' - TwoThumbs Up! In-Reply-To: <005601c8ed09$e8f26f30$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> References: <005601c8ed09$e8f26f30$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: <50281.71.226.60.25.1216848658.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> Hi All: As I mentioned previously, we are wanting to get a number of short reviews (one or two paragraphs) from those of you who have the Field Guide and have read it. This is a special book and Richard is a special person to all of us. And, he has been the author of Centerpiece for 10 years! Our deadline for the next issue is August 17. Thanks in advance. Larry On Wed, July 23, 2008 2:20 pm, Martin Altmann wrote: > Here in Germany it's still available, delivery time 3 days... > > > > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von > Impactika at aol.com > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 23. Juli 2008 23:02 > An: almitt at kconline.com; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Cc: geoking at notkin.net > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] "Field Guide to Meteors and Meteorites" - > TwoThumbs Up! > > > Hello Al and Geoff, and all, > > > I have been trying to get a few cases too. > And I finally got a response. It is sold out! > And being reprinted. It will be a month, or 2, or....... before it is > available again. > > And my copy is signed too! > Are you both jealous? ;-) > > > Anne M. Black > _www.IMPACTIKA.com_ (http://www.IMPACTIKA.com) > _IMPACTIKA at aol.com_ (mailto:IMPACTIKA at aol.com) > Vice-President of IMCA > _www.IMCA.cc_ (http://www.IMCA.cc) > > > > > > In a message dated 7/23/2008 1:55:50 PM Mountain Daylight Time, > almitt at kconline.com writes: Hi Geoff and all, > > > I certainly second what Geoff has said after reviewing a copy of this > wonderful book and it is a first class publication and no collector of > meteorites or meteorite books should be without it!! I've tried > unsuccessfully to buy copies of it all over the midwest. I've not > received an answer yet from the publisher to buy a case or two. So looks > like it is fast becoming a hard to find, newly published book. > Congratulations to the Nortons on their effort to this wonderful > resource. > > --AL Mitterling > > > Notkin wrote: > > >> Dear Listees: >> >> >> Greetings all. I know Richard Norton and Lawrence Chitwood's new book >> "Field Guide to Meteors and Meteorites" has already been discussed >> here, but I just received my copy -- mine is signed, aren't you jealous >> : ) -- and it's such a terrific work I wanted to comment >> personally. >> >> This beautifully produced 288-page full color book is an absolute >> must for all meteorite enthusiasts, and completes a great trilogy on our >> favorite subject, alongside the Nortons' other two essential works: >> "Rocks from Space," and "The Cambridge Encyclopedia of >> Meteorites." >> >> >> Congratulations to Richard, and the late Lawrence Chitwood, and also >> to M-List member Dorothy Norton who was very involved with the work >> herself, contributing excellent scientific illustrations throughout, as >> well as editing and research. Dorothy just told me this morning that >> the initial printing has already sold out (!) so if you need a first >> edition snap it up quick wherever you can find it. >> >> On a personal note, I was thrilled by the invitation to contribute, >> in a very small way, to this important work by supplying meteorite >> photographs of specimens from the Oscar Monnig Collection, The Michael >> Farmer Meteorites Collection, and the Aerolite Meteorites >> Collection. Several other List members also contributed photos, and >> you'll enjoy seeing a number of familiar meteorite hunters faces in the >> "In The Field" chapter. Special thanks to my pal Sonny Clary who >> took a stellar photo of Steve Arnold #1 and myself at Brenham, which was >> also included in the book. >> >> If you haven't seen the "Field Guide to Meteors and Meteorites" yet, >> order it ASAP. A real beauty! >> >> >> With best wishes, >> >> >> Geoff N. >> > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for > FanHouse Fantasy Football today. > (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From marco.langbroek at wanadoo.nl Wed Jul 23 18:10:58 2008 From: marco.langbroek at wanadoo.nl (Marco Langbroek) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 00:10:58 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Problem With "Catalog of Meteorites", Software Problem Message-ID: <4887AC72.5050707@wanadoo.nl> Yup, the catalogue uses a DLL which was ditched in Xp. The solution: just download it here and put it in the system folder mentioned in the .txt included in the download: http://www.dll-files.com/index.shtml - Marco ----- Dr Marco Langbroek Dutch Meteor Society (DMS) e-mail: meteorites at dmsweb.org DMS website: http://www.dmsweb.org private website: http://www.marcolangbroek.nl ----- From m42protosun at aol.com Wed Jul 23 19:48:11 2008 From: m42protosun at aol.com (m42protosun at aol.com) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 19:48:11 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] New possible impact structures detected Message-ID: <8CABB35B385781F-1EBC-2017@mblk-d47.sysops.aol.com> Good evening list, Using GOOGLE I have found two possible impact structures, which are nowhere to be found. Would you please be so kind to control my assumption. Peru: 17?34'09.00'' S; 69?40'53.59'' W Antarctica: 80?49'60.00'' S; 126?19'60.00'' E Regards Uwe ________________________________________________________________________ AOL eMail auf Ihrem Handy! Ab sofort k?nnen Sie auch unterwegs Ihre AOL email abrufen. Registrieren Sie sich jetzt kostenlos. From dragonsoup at msn.com Wed Jul 23 21:19:28 2008 From: dragonsoup at msn.com (Maria Haas) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 18:19:28 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD(?): Gary Foote Recovery Auction Message-ID: Hello Everyone, I am still waiting for pictures of two items but that's not going to stop me from starting what I'm calling a silent auction. Auctions for nine items will start tonight at 7:00 PM PST and will run for seven days. The balance of the items will start tomorrow at 7:00 PM PST and those auctions will also run for seven days. Ending dates and times for each item can be found on each item's respective page. The auction ending times are staggered by 15 minutes to allow all bids to be recorded prior to the items closing. You'll see what I mean when you visit the website and click on what you want to bid on: http://meteoriteimpact.com/footeauction.htm. Some really spectacular items have been donated: - An original oil on canvas depiction of the Tagish Lake fall by Jerry Armstrong - A serial numbered Nininger/Canyon Diablo coin that is #9 of only 10 that exist - A 167.2 Bassikounou fragment that has beautiful crust and the broken edge shows the fresh interior and two impact melt areas - Two Carancas fragments -- one has a visible clast - A 91.2 gram Vaca Muerta individual - An oriented NWA 869 with frothy bubbles - "The World of Metorites from A to Z" poster by Sarah Kenndy of Jensen Scientifics and Geoff Notkin - HH's copy of a SCIENCE magazine from 1961 - Bricks from the Nininger Museum - NWA 4766 Mars box made by Chladni's Heirs And there's even more than that! See everything at http://meteoriteimpact.com/footeauction.htm Bid on an item by email to me at dragonsoup at msn.com or by telephone to (928) 567-6558. All bids will be recorded in the order in which I receive them. Telephone bids take priority over email bids so if you think there's a chance your email bid won't make it to me by the close of the auction please call me. Let's not forget why we're doing this. The purpose of this auction is to raise money for our meteorite friends, Gary and C.J. Foote. Gary was diagnosed with advanced-stage prostate cancer earlier this year. He had a prostatectomy in April and has had several complications and an additional surgery since then. Their family needs help to make it through this incredibly hard time so please give generously by bidding on the items in our auction. This is one time where anything you do, no matter how small, will help them. Hopefully, all of your questions will be answered on the website but if you have any others, please don't hesitate to contact me. The website will be updated with the high bids by 7:00 pm PST each day the auction is running at http://meteoriteimpact.com/Highbids.htm. Pleasant and respectful bidders only, please. Thanks again, Maria From dallepuz at telefonica.net Thu Jul 24 02:49:12 2008 From: dallepuz at telefonica.net (David Allepuz) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 08:49:12 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Help with stewn field diagram References: <4887AC72.5050707@wanadoo.nl> Message-ID: <013f01c8ed59$623e4720$2101a8c0@davidportatil> Hello list, I'm going to start drawing the strewn field of a new meteorite find. As I have to draw 86 different positions and the 86 circles with an area proportional to mass....I'm wandering...Is there any soft, any aplication, any trick, to make this tedious job easy ????? How do you do it? Thank you. David Allepuz Obs.Sant Juli? de Vilatorta Catalonia SPAIN www.freewebs.com/astronomia From mark.ford at ssl.gb.com Thu Jul 24 05:17:29 2008 From: mark.ford at ssl.gb.com (Mark Ford) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 10:17:29 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] New possible impact structures detected In-Reply-To: <8CABB35B385781F-1EBC-2017@mblk-d47.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CABB35B385781F-1EBC-2017@mblk-d47.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <29A9DB45B84970458190D7D39BD42C4934FA9C@gamma.ssl.atw> Hi Uwe, Not sure about the Peru one, it looks like a military training range or similar! - scan to the south and there are some burned out building it's like a firing range or similar, so could be a bomb crater? The Antarctica one is difficult to say, as the resolution is way too low on google to see any detail, could be anything ice makes all kind of patterns! Best, Mark -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of m42protosun at aol.com Sent: 24 July 2008 00:48 To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] New possible impact structures detected Good evening list, Using GOOGLE I have found two possible impact structures, which are nowhere to be found. Would you please be so kind to control my assumption. Peru: 17?34'09.00'' S; 69?40'53.59'' W Antarctica: 80?49'60.00'' S; 126?19'60.00'' E Regards Uwe ________________________________________________________________________ AOL eMail auf Ihrem Handy! Ab sofort k?nnen Sie auch unterwegs Ihre AOL email abrufen. Registrieren Sie sich jetzt kostenlos. ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us. Email info at ssl.gb.com. You should not copy or use this email or attachment(s) for any purpose nor disclose their contents to any other person. GENERAL STATEMENT: Southern Scientific Ltd's computer systems may be monitored and communications carried on them recorded, to secure the effective operation of the system and for other lawful purposes. Registered address Rectory Farm Rd, Sompting, Lancing, W Sussex BN15 0DP. Company No 1800317 From drtanuki at yahoo.com Thu Jul 24 06:52:32 2008 From: drtanuki at yahoo.com (drtanuki) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 03:52:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] New possible impact structures detected In-Reply-To: <29A9DB45B84970458190D7D39BD42C4934FA9C@gamma.ssl.atw> Message-ID: <756717.86650.qm@web53211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hello Mark, Uwe and List, Thank you both for your posts. Mark I do not see any evidence for any military activity to the South. The darkened areas around the animal pens are manure and the buildings are all intact. The circular "target" that Uwe has found is difficult to determine just what it is because of its size and the poor resolution of the image. Elevations at the site do not indicate a circular depression and tilted images only reveal that is is on a hillslope. Mark is correct that the Antarctica image is just too poor to tell anything. Best Regards, Dirk Ross...Tokyo --- On Thu, 7/24/08, Mark Ford wrote: > From: Mark Ford > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New possible impact structures detected > To: m42protosun at aol.com, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Thursday, July 24, 2008, 6:17 PM > Hi Uwe, > > Not sure about the Peru one, it looks like a military > training range or similar! - scan to the south and there > are some burned out building it's like a firing range > or similar, so could be a bomb crater? > > The Antarctica one is difficult to say, as the resolution > is way too low on google to see any detail, could be > anything ice makes all kind of patterns! > > Best, > Mark > > > -----Original Message----- > From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On > Behalf Of m42protosun at aol.com > Sent: 24 July 2008 00:48 > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: [meteorite-list] New possible impact structures > detected > > Good evening list, > Using GOOGLE I have found two possible impact structures, > which are > nowhere to be found. Would you please be so kind to control > my > assumption. > Peru: 17?34'09.00'' S; > 69?40'53.59'' W > Antarctica: 80?49'60.00'' S; > 126?19'60.00'' E > > Regards Uwe > > ________________________________________________________________________ > AOL eMail auf Ihrem Handy! Ab sofort k?nnen Sie auch > unterwegs Ihre AOL > email abrufen. Registrieren Sie sich jetzt kostenlos. > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: > > This email and any files transmitted with it are > confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please > notify us. Email info at ssl.gb.com. You should not copy or use > this email or attachment(s) for any purpose nor disclose > their contents to any other person. > > GENERAL STATEMENT: > > Southern Scientific Ltd's computer systems may be > monitored and communications carried on them recorded, to > secure the effective operation of the system and for other > lawful purposes. > > Registered address Rectory Farm Rd, Sompting, Lancing, W > Sussex BN15 0DP. Company No 1800317 > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From nwa482 at comcast.net Thu Jul 24 07:28:47 2008 From: nwa482 at comcast.net (Jim Strope) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 07:28:47 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Ebay Auctions ending Message-ID: <000201c8ed80$71c87ae0$0202a8c0@DJQVK441> Good Morning All........ I have auctions ending tonight, ebay ID catchafallingstar.com. ALL started just at 99 Cents with the execption of a 4.6 KG Gibeon: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200236057166 FULL RECAP: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZcatchafallingstar.com Thanks for looking ................ Jim Strope 421 Fourth Street Glen Dale, WV 26038 http://www.catchafallingstar.com From wahlperry at aol.com Thu Jul 24 08:29:51 2008 From: wahlperry at aol.com (wahlperry at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 08:29:51 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Help with stewn field diagram In-Reply-To: <013f01c8ed59$623e4720$2101a8c0@davidportatil> References: <4887AC72.5050707@wanadoo.nl> <013f01c8ed59$623e4720$2101a8c0@davidportatil> Message-ID: <8CABBA01A45D5B5-121C-1B4E@MBLK-M34.sysops.aol.com> Hi David, What I like to use is my Magellan mapping program. On all of my finds, I map the locations and they are downloaded to my GPS. When all the information is downloaded to the computer it produces a nice map . I would also back up all the information and way points. Sonny www.NevadaMeteorites.com -----Original Message----- From: David Allepuz To: marco.langbroek at wanadoo.nl; Meteorite List Sent: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 11:49 pm Subject: [meteorite-list] Help with stewn field diagram Hello list,? ? I'm going to start drawing the strewn field of a new meteorite find.? As I have to draw 86 different positions and the 86 circles with an area proportional to mass....I'm wandering...Is there any soft, any aplication, any trick, to make this tedious job easy ?????? ? How do you do it?? ? Thank you.? ? David Allepuz? Obs.Sant Juli? de Vilatorta? Catalonia? SPAIN? ? www.freewebs.com/astronomia? ? ______________________________________________? http://www.meteoritecentral.com? Meteorite-list mailing list? Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com? http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list? From info at niger-meteorite-recon.de Thu Jul 24 09:34:35 2008 From: info at niger-meteorite-recon.de (Svend Buhl - Meteorite-Recon.com) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 15:34:35 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Help with stewn field diagram Message-ID: <23792446.242851216906475136.JavaMail.servlet@kundenserver> David, all, the easiest way would be to use MapCreator or a similar customizing software for topographical maps. There should be a test version obtainable. The programm claims to include a set of variable icons as well which may fit for your purpose. However my recommendation would be to use Fugawi 4.5 to digitlize and scale your map, import the respective coordinates and export your map into Adobe-Photoshop (CS3). This will allow a much more precise work when dimensioning and layouting the icons representing the find locations. You can easily define a set of icons, vary them, name and save them. If you work with layers in CS3 and save them separately, you will be able to use the fabricated strewn field map also without the topographic layer. This may be desirable, in case you want to transfer the strewn field template afterwards on satellite charts or aerial photos as well. Cheers Svend www.meteorite-recon.com ------------------------------------------------------------------ Hello list, I'm going to start drawing the strewn field of a new meteorite find. As I have to draw 86 different positions and the 86 circles with an area proportional to mass....I'm wandering...Is there any soft, any aplication, any trick, to make this tedious job easy ????? How do you do it? Thank you. David Allepuz Obs.Sant Juli? de Vilatorta Catalonia SPAIN www.freewebs.com/astronomia ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- www.meteorite-recon.com From MeteorHntr at aol.com Thu Jul 24 11:10:05 2008 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 11:10:05 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] A new way to collect Mars samples Message-ID: Hey Guys, Maybe NASA could get these guys to bring us some Martian samples. They would be real fresh samples and it should cost us far less than $8 Billion dollars that the other idea they floated would cost. http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,24070088-13762,00.html Think of it as a bartering plan, something like how the settlers here in America did early on with the natives. We could trade something we have extra of for something else that we don't have yet. It could be a win-win deal. Steve #1 **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) From moni2555 at hotmail.com Thu Jul 24 11:18:56 2008 From: moni2555 at hotmail.com (Moni Waiblinger) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 08:18:56 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] A new way to collect Mars samples In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Good morning ALL! And what would this possibly be what we have and the little aliens do not have? With their abilities to be coming and going and supposedly controlling us, I wonder what it could be. I mean they even zap us up into their UFOs. They have any kind of meteorites, I am sure. This is funny to think about. With best regards, Moni > From: MeteorHntr at aol.com > Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 11:10:05 -0400 > To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: [meteorite-list] A new way to collect Mars samples > > Hey Guys, > > Maybe NASA could get these guys to bring us some Martian samples. They > would be real fresh samples and it should cost us far less than $8 Billion > dollars that the other idea they floated would cost. > > http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,24070088-13762,00.html > > Think of it as a bartering plan, something like how the settlers here in > America did early on with the natives. We could trade something we have extra > of for something else that we don't have yet. > > It could be a win-win deal. > > Steve #1 > > > _________________________________________________________________ Stay in touch when you're away with Windows Live Messenger. http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_messenger2_072008 From bobholmes at cox.net Thu Jul 24 13:01:09 2008 From: bobholmes at cox.net (Bob Holmes) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 10:01:09 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Gary Foote Recovery Auction References: Message-ID: <505F4201C2434D128F26AEF934C75782@FOSTER> Thanks for all your efforts Maria. I also want to give a shout out to John Gwilliam for his work on the auction website. You have both done an admirable job. Bob Holmes ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maria Haas" To: "IMCA Mailing List" ; Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 4:04 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Gary Foote Recovery Auction > > Hello Everyone, > > As much as I have hesitated to have a cut-off date for items donated for > the Gary Foote Recovery Auction, I am going to have to so that I can get > the auction started. If you could, please have items (or email me pictures > and descriptions of items) at my house by 12:00 Noon PST on Thursday, July > 24th. Contact me off-list for my address if you don't already have it. > > Please look in your meteorite shrines, open up those cabinets and look > inside those boxes under your desk for any meteorites or meteorite-related > collectables you can part with. This is an occasion where anything you can > do will make a huge difference in Gary and CJ's life. > > I have a seven-day silent auction planned and have some really terrific > items to auction. Pictures, descriptions, minimum bids and auction rules > will be up on John Gwilliam's website at > http://meteoriteimpact.com/footeauction.htm soon. Bids will be taken via > email and telephone to me and each item will be updated daily at 7:00 pm > PST with the highest bid. I prefer that the successful bidders pay via > PayPal but if that doesn't work for you, please let me know prior to > bidding on an item and we will work something out. > > Please don't hesitate to contact me with any questions. > > I don't want to get too gushy here but I have to tell you all something. > Being the middleperson when you all get together to help someone is just > the nicest, heartwarming feeling ever. Thank you so very much for your > support and thank you for what you have done for Gary and CJ. > > I'll post again to let you know when the auction is starting. > > My best to you, > Maria > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From chinaren76 at yahoo.com Thu Jul 24 13:30:09 2008 From: chinaren76 at yahoo.com (Ma Lan) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 10:30:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] [IMCA] A Feeling Of Shame In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <440308.76277.qm@web52702.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi Maria and Members, Being a newby in the IMCA community, i know little about Gary Foote. I just know he needs help. So, i help. Maybe biding on items by email or phone is the reason why nobody placed bid on them. Try it on Ebay and AD it on the list as well. Try it. Best, Ma Lan IMCA #8234 --- On Fri, 7/25/08, Charles Austin Miller wrote: > From: Charles Austin Miller > Subject: Re: [IMCA] A Feeling Of Shame > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Cc: imca at imcamail.de > Date: Friday, July 25, 2008, 12:58 AM > Mal, respectfully, you?re out of line here. > > Asking people to contribute out of the goodness of their > hearts is one > thing; attempting to SHAME them into giving is arrogant and > oafish and > counterproductive. > > Charles A. Miller > IMCA 1292 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > On 7/24/08 8:26 AM, "Mal Bishop" > wrote: > > > > > > > Dear list members, > > > > I must say I'm somewhat disappointed in the > reception/ turn-out thus far as > > related to the number of people on this list who have > reached out and made > > some sort of gesture of goodwill by donating > something, anything, to help a > > fellow community member who has REALLY undergone a > horrible ordeal and still > > is in the midst of it -- not to mention what his wife, > CJ, and other family > > members are having to deal with! Where are all of the > 'BIG' dealers, all of > > the truly well fortuned collectors who have SO much > that to offer up a single > > piece from their vaults of space treasure would be of > little, if any > > noticeable, loss to them! Take a moment and each one > of you think what it > > would be like if it were you in Gary's position? > How would you then feel > > about your treasures compared to what dark, and > foreboding place you now find > > yourself in. I'll be outright honest, I feel sort > of ashamed to be associated > > with a community that apparently doesn't mind > trying to always acquire more > > and more personal bounty from space, but are maybe > just a little too reticent > > in giving up something, make a sacrifice to help a > fellow 'kinsman' with the > > vary same passions and desires -- at least he did at > one time until something > > much more important stepped in its place to unveil > some truth of the duality > > of life. There is fortune and good, and then there is > much suffering, loss, > > and indescribable pain and fear around the next bend > waiting for ANYONE at > > ANYTIME!!! > > > > I'm sorry in advance if I'm off base, way out > in left field, or just sound > > plain bitter, angry, or what ever label ya'll wish > to place on this or me, but > > all I can say is it is a shame when you have a list > comprised of hundreds of > > folks worldwide supposedly not only interested in a > hobby, and appear to want > > to share and communicate with one another (hence why a > list like this exist in > > the first place, correct?), but don't seem to want > to reach out when a time > > like this comes upon us to help one of "our > own" !!! I know times are > > getting harder financially , especially maybe here in > the US for a lot of us, > > but still many of us are finding it possible to still > invest and spend on > > ourselves and indulge our hobbyist desires and whims, > so why then can't some > > of you ,if not all, offer something to show your true > care, compassion, and > > concern, not just for another human being, but for one > of us for goodness > > sakes! > > > > Again, I know I will probably receive some distasteful > responses due to my > > putting my nose where maybe a lot of you feel it may > not belong, but it is > > rather disgusting to see talk always going on about > what's for sale, what I > > want, what can I acquire, while rarely anything is > mentioned about Gary's > > plight save for our resident angel, Maria! It looks > like some basic plain old > > greed and self indulgent type behavior to me! This is > why we find so much > > misery in our world at any given time, and any given > place -- it's always > > about me, me,me, me!!! Well, take just a few precious > seconds and do some REAL > > soul searching then see what it's truly all about > -- life I mean -- then maybe > > a few of you may come to a different realization!!! > > > > Now I'm through, I'll step of off the > proverbial soapbox and await my stoning, > > but I felt lead to say what I did. Oh yea, you may > also excommunicate me as > > well if the desire is there. > > > > Thanks for your time in indulging my rant! > > > > Mal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > IMCA mailing list > > IMCA at imcamail.de > > > http://lists.imcamail.de/mailman/listinfo/imca_______________________________________________ > IMCA mailing list > IMCA at imcamail.de > http://lists.imcamail.de/mailman/listinfo/imca From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Thu Jul 24 14:01:16 2008 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 11:01:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] [IMCA] A Feeling Of Shame In-Reply-To: <440308.76277.qm@web52702.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <686071.80326.qm@web33103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I have watched this for the last few weeks, and I have decided not to participate for the simple reason that there seems to be a clique that has has formed over the last 6 or 7 years, one made up of a few people who seem to think that they have a mandate to take control of these charity donation/money raising issues and run them how they see fit. There is often a demand for participation, and denouncement behind the backs of those who do not donate, I find this repulsive. I do not like to be shamed into anything, and certainly am offended to the point of going to the opposite direction. The perception that dealers have tons of money and material just laying the garbage heap makes me sick. I have lots of meteorites, and no money right now, I know many of us are in the same boat, sales are in the crapper due to the financial genius of our government and the absolute greed of our wealthy businessmen and corporations. So please do not pretend to know my financial situation because I have a website filled with meteorites, at this time I am finding it difficult to pay my own bills, much less someone elses. I no longer trust giving other people my meteorites, and having them be in charge of selling them/auctioning them. I will not discuss the specifics, but I know that wrongdoing has taken place in the meteorite world with such "donations". I do not like silent auctions, gimmicks, charity auctions where email or phone bidding take place, out of sight and oversight everyone. Ebay sales with payments directly to Gary Foote would ease these concerns and halt any chance of fraud taking place. Many of us are having problems, my wife lost her job last month while I was in Europe. She is on unemployment, a whopping $240.00 per week in Arizona, which barely pays for a couple tanks of gas these days. I know of many other list members who are having financial and medical problems in silence, no help for them is coming. There is nothing wrong with organizing or aksing for help with a fellow list member, but while you may night recognize it, sometimes the way these things are done can really rub people the wrong way. Michael Farmer --- On Thu, 7/24/08, Ma Lan wrote: > From: Ma Lan > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] [IMCA] A Feeling Of Shame > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, "Charles Austin Miller" > Cc: imca at imcamail.de > Date: Thursday, July 24, 2008, 11:30 AM > Hi Maria and Members, > > Being a newby in the IMCA community, i know little about > Gary Foote. I just know he needs help. So, i help. > > Maybe biding on items by email or phone is the reason why > nobody placed bid on them. Try it on Ebay and AD it on the > list as well. Try it. > > Best, > Ma Lan > IMCA #8234 > > > > --- On Fri, 7/25/08, Charles Austin Miller > wrote: > > > From: Charles Austin Miller > > > Subject: Re: [IMCA] A Feeling Of Shame > > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > Cc: imca at imcamail.de > > Date: Friday, July 25, 2008, 12:58 AM > > Mal, respectfully, you?re out of line here. > > > > Asking people to contribute out of the goodness of > their > > hearts is one > > thing; attempting to SHAME them into giving is > arrogant and > > oafish and > > counterproductive. > > > > Charles A. Miller > > IMCA 1292 > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > On 7/24/08 8:26 AM, "Mal Bishop" > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Dear list members, > > > > > > I must say I'm somewhat disappointed in the > > reception/ turn-out thus far as > > > related to the number of people on this list who > have > > reached out and made > > > some sort of gesture of goodwill by donating > > something, anything, to help a > > > fellow community member who has REALLY undergone > a > > horrible ordeal and still > > > is in the midst of it -- not to mention what his > wife, > > CJ, and other family > > > members are having to deal with! Where are all > of the > > 'BIG' dealers, all of > > > the truly well fortuned collectors who have SO > much > > that to offer up a single > > > piece from their vaults of space treasure would > be of > > little, if any > > > noticeable, loss to them! Take a moment and each > one > > of you think what it > > > would be like if it were you in Gary's > position? > > How would you then feel > > > about your treasures compared to what dark, and > > foreboding place you now find > > > yourself in. I'll be outright honest, I feel > sort > > of ashamed to be associated > > > with a community that apparently doesn't mind > > trying to always acquire more > > > and more personal bounty from space, but are > maybe > > just a little too reticent > > > in giving up something, make a sacrifice to help > a > > fellow 'kinsman' with the > > > vary same passions and desires -- at least he did > at > > one time until something > > > much more important stepped in its place to > unveil > > some truth of the duality > > > of life. There is fortune and good, and then > there is > > much suffering, loss, > > > and indescribable pain and fear around the next > bend > > waiting for ANYONE at > > > ANYTIME!!! > > > > > > I'm sorry in advance if I'm off base, way > out > > in left field, or just sound > > > plain bitter, angry, or what ever label ya'll > wish > > to place on this or me, but > > > all I can say is it is a shame when you have a > list > > comprised of hundreds of > > > folks worldwide supposedly not only interested in > a > > hobby, and appear to want > > > to share and communicate with one another (hence > why a > > list like this exist in > > > the first place, correct?), but don't seem to > want > > to reach out when a time > > > like this comes upon us to help one of "our > > own" !!! I know times are > > > getting harder financially , especially maybe > here in > > the US for a lot of us, > > > but still many of us are finding it possible to > still > > invest and spend on > > > ourselves and indulge our hobbyist desires and > whims, > > so why then can't some > > > of you ,if not all, offer something to show your > true > > care, compassion, and > > > concern, not just for another human being, but > for one > > of us for goodness > > > sakes! > > > > > > Again, I know I will probably receive some > distasteful > > responses due to my > > > putting my nose where maybe a lot of you feel it > may > > not belong, but it is > > > rather disgusting to see talk always going on > about > > what's for sale, what I > > > want, what can I acquire, while rarely anything > is > > mentioned about Gary's > > > plight save for our resident angel, Maria! It > looks > > like some basic plain old > > > greed and self indulgent type behavior to me! > This is > > why we find so much > > > misery in our world at any given time, and any > given > > place -- it's always > > > about me, me,me, me!!! Well, take just a few > precious > > seconds and do some REAL > > > soul searching then see what it's truly all > about > > -- life I mean -- then maybe > > > a few of you may come to a different > realization!!! > > > > > > Now I'm through, I'll step of off the > > proverbial soapbox and await my stoning, > > > but I felt lead to say what I did. Oh yea, you > may > > also excommunicate me as > > > well if the desire is there. > > > > > > Thanks for your time in indulging my rant! > > > > > > Mal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > IMCA mailing list > > > IMCA at imcamail.de > > > > > > http://lists.imcamail.de/mailman/listinfo/imca_______________________________________________ > > IMCA mailing list > > IMCA at imcamail.de > > http://lists.imcamail.de/mailman/listinfo/imca > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Thu Jul 24 14:13:41 2008 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 11:13:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Norton's new book, a must-have for any meteorite collector Message-ID: <247608.16741.qm@web33101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I bought two of these books and was pleasently surpised to get another signed copy from Richard Norton in the mail a few days ago as a gift. I have already pretty much destroyed one copy reading it, spilling coke on it, and creasing the pages from use. I always try to get multiple copies of these things, I have a large book collection, and I prefer to have no-touch copies and work copies. I have destroyed so many copies of the Catalog of Meteorites from simple overuse, I must keep buying them when I see them available. Anyway the Field Guide of Meteors and Meteorites is a must have, great photos, very simple to read and understand, and chock full of newer meteorites, not just the classics. You never know when it will go out of print, so I would get them as fast as possible if you don't have one yet. Michael Farmer From MeteorHntr at aol.com Thu Jul 24 14:59:37 2008 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 14:59:37 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA knows about Space Aliens, audio files Message-ID: Hey List, Here is the actual audio clip of NASA Moon-Walking Astronaut Dr. Edgar Mitchell (6th man to walk on the Moon) talking about real space aliens on UK radio interview with Kerrang! Radio. http://www.kerrangradio.co.uk/Article.asp?id=804160&spid= Interesting. If NASA has communication with aliens, why don't we use them to get asteroid samples as well as Martian and Lunar specimens? I only include that last line to keep this "on topic" for our list. But it does beg the question, what else is NASA covering up? And if there is a real cover up, I would expect they will try to shut up Dr. Mitchell very quickly. Then again, if there is no real cover up, I would expect they will try to shut up Dr. Mitchell very quickly. Should we expect that the good Doctor will be "abducted" soon, and we will never hear from him ever again? NOTICE: There is no "Joke" disclaimer placed ANYWHERE in these email. Steve #1 **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Thu Jul 24 15:32:08 2008 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 12:32:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] [IMCA] A Feeling Of Shame In-Reply-To: <686071.80326.qm@web33103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <285080.92890.qm@web33101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I want to clarify to the list that in no way am I implicating Maria in any wrongdoing, it seems that is how my email came off, so I will clear this up right now, no Maria is not in any way who I am speaking of, they know who they are. I merely wanted to say that I and other have been scammed in bogus donation schemes in the meteorite-list world where money did not reach the intended recipient or go to the desired use. I am not going to discuss that incident further, so don't ask, it would serve no purpose at this point but to cause bad things which we don't need at this time. I will no longer just donate things to raise money unless it is done in a very clear way for all to see such as a live auction or ebay auction, only when procedes are sent directly the person, not through a third party or the seller. There is just too much room for mistakes or theft. Michael Farmer From cynapse at charter.net Thu Jul 24 15:43:11 2008 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 15:43:11 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA knows about Space Aliens, audio files In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 14:59:37 EDT, you wrote: > >Should we expect that the good Doctor will be "abducted" soon, and we will >never hear from him ever again? > Yes, I'm sure that, within a few years, he will be placed in a nursing home for his advancing mental decay, fading away quietly, and getting a brief footnote obituary n the news, only a fraction the size of what would be given to an actor or athlete. I believe that he believes what he is saying. I also believe that he is a sick, confused old man. From midwest at meteorman.org Thu Jul 24 17:48:13 2008 From: midwest at meteorman.org (Timothy Heitz) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 14:48:13 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA knows about Space Aliens, audio files References: Message-ID: <5496B87142C14B0289713958647D178D@den> Hi List, You can also hear it hear also on U-Tube. http://youtube.com/watch?v=WXTXbi_VhJU Astronaut Dr. Edgar Mitchell (6th man to walk on the Moon) talking about real space aliens on UK radio interview with Kerrang! Radio. Tim Heitz Home of the Orignal Meteorite Pusher :) http://www.meteorman.org/page_3.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 11:59 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA knows about Space Aliens, audio files > Hey List, > > Here is the actual audio clip of NASA Moon-Walking Astronaut Dr. Edgar > Mitchell (6th man to walk on the Moon) talking about real space aliens on > UK radio > interview with Kerrang! Radio. > > http://www.kerrangradio.co.uk/Article.asp?id=804160&spid= > > Interesting. > > If NASA has communication with aliens, why don't we use them to get > asteroid > samples as well as Martian and Lunar specimens? > > I only include that last line to keep this "on topic" for our list. > > But it does beg the question, what else is NASA covering up? And if > there > is a real cover up, I would expect they will try to shut up Dr. Mitchell > very > quickly. Then again, if there is no real cover up, I would expect they > will > try to shut up Dr. Mitchell very quickly. > > Should we expect that the good Doctor will be "abducted" soon, and we > will > never hear from him ever again? > > NOTICE: There is no "Joke" disclaimer placed ANYWHERE in these email. > > Steve #1 > > > > > **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for > FanHouse Fantasy Football today. > (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From yellowengine at earthlink.net Thu Jul 24 16:17:20 2008 From: yellowengine at earthlink.net (RJP) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 14:17:20 -0600 (GMT-06:00) Subject: [meteorite-list] 218g Portales Valley Message-ID: <31933035.1216930640773.JavaMail.root@mswamui-bichon.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Good Afternoon, Due to the state of the economy and the irreplaceable nature of this specimen, I have decided to keep it in my personal collection for another 6-12 months min. Thank you to all who replied to my sales Ad. Best Regards, Ryan Pawelski From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Thu Jul 24 16:20:51 2008 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 13:20:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] [IMCA] A Feeling Of Shame In-Reply-To: <285080.92890.qm@web33101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <635635.37753.qm@web33101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Ok, lets put this to bed. I have received a flurry of phone calls demanding clarification, so here goes. This event took place at least 7 years ago. It does not involve ANYONE who is organizing charity events these days. I am not accusing anyone who is currently doing these good deeds, not Notkin, or Anne Black, or Maria, come on, I am just in disagreement about some of the methods used, which led to myself and others being ripped off in the past. Money was given and much less money ended up in the hands of the intended recipient. This left a very bad taste in my mouth. This is not so complicated as people are making it out to be. I was offended by Mal's email. Since he publicly tried to crucify dealers and big collectors for not showing so much interest in helping Gary Foot by participating in the charity auction, I publicly responded as to my own reason for not being out there giving or bidding. I will put an item on eBay, and the buyer can pay Gary Foote directly, this will be my way of helping and that way I know that every cent goes to the intended use. Michael Farmer I wish Gary and his family well, and I think it is good that people are trying to help him. --- On Thu, 7/24/08, Michael Farmer wrote: > From: Michael Farmer > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] [IMCA] A Feeling Of Shame > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, "Charles Austin Miller" , chinaren76 at yahoo.com > Date: Thursday, July 24, 2008, 1:32 PM > I want to clarify to the list that in no way am I > implicating Maria in any wrongdoing, it seems that is how > my email came off, so I will clear this up right now, no > Maria is not in any way who I am speaking of, they know who > they are. > I merely wanted to say that I and other have been scammed > in bogus donation schemes in the meteorite-list world where > money did not reach the intended recipient or go to the > desired use. I am not going to discuss that incident > further, so don't ask, it would serve no purpose at > this point but to cause bad things which we don't need > at this time. I will no longer just donate things to raise > money unless it is done in a very clear way for all to see > such as a live auction or ebay auction, only when procedes > are sent directly the person, not through a third party or > the seller. There is just too much room for mistakes or > theft. > > Michael Farmer > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From darryl at dof3.com Thu Jul 24 16:41:18 2008 From: darryl at dof3.com (Darryl Pitt) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 16:41:18 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] myopic? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1C1026F3-8CC1-4297-9A29-C083A33BAB10@dof3.com> however well-meaning the intentions, the commentary below is indeed self-indulgent and naive. however, as i would so like to believe the comments were well- meaning, perhaps it's time to show some charity to mal by moving on. On Jul 24, 2008, at 3:44 PM, Dave Carothers wrote: > Mal, > > I must say that I'm somewhat disappointed in the arrogant and > condescending comments you made on the list. > > Dave Carothers > -----Original Message----- > From: imca-bounces at imcamail.de [mailto:imca-bounces at imcamail.de]On > Behalf Of Mal Bishop > Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 8:27 AM > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Cc: imca at imcamail.de > Subject: [IMCA] A Feeling Of Shame > > > > Dear list members, > > I must say I'm somewhat disappointed in the reception/ turn-out > thus far as related to the number of people on this list who have > reached out and made some sort of gesture of goodwill by donating > something, anything, to help a fellow community member who has > REALLY undergone a horrible ordeal and still is in the midst of it > -- not to mention what his wife, CJ, and other family members are > having to deal with! Where are all of the 'BIG' dealers, all of > the truly well fortuned collectors who have SO much that to offer > up a single piece from their vaults of space treasure would be of > little, if any noticeable, loss to them! Take a moment and each > one of you think what it would be like if it were you in Gary's > position? How would you then feel about your treasures compared to > what dark, and foreboding place you now find yourself in. I'll be > outright honest, I feel sort of ashamed to be associated with a > community that apparently doesn't mind trying to always acquire > more and more personal bounty from space, but are maybe just a > little too reticent in giving up something, make a sacrifice to > help a fellow 'kinsman' with the vary same passions and desires -- > at least he did at one time until something much more important > stepped in its place to unveil some truth of the duality of life. > There is fortune and good, and then there is much suffering, loss, > and indescribable pain and fear around the next bend waiting for > ANYONE at ANYTIME!!! > > I'm sorry in advance if I'm off base, way out in left field, or > just sound plain bitter, angry, or what ever label ya'll wish to > place on this or me, but all I can say is it is a shame when you > have a list comprised of hundreds of folks worldwide supposedly not > only interested in a hobby, and appear to want to share and > communicate with one another (hence why a list like this exist in > the first place, correct?), but don't seem to want to reach out > when a time like this comes upon us to help one of "our own" !!! > I know times are getting harder financially , especially maybe here > in the US for a lot of us, but still many of us are finding it > possible to still invest and spend on ourselves and indulge our > hobbyist desires and whims, so why then can't some of you ,if not > all, offer something to show your true care, compassion, and > concern, not just for another human being, but for one of us for > goodness sakes! > > Again, I know I will probably receive some distasteful responses > due to my putting my nose where maybe a lot of you feel it may not > belong, but it is rather disgusting to see talk always going on > about what's for sale, what I want, what can I acquire, while > rarely anything is mentioned about Gary's plight save for our > resident angel, Maria! It looks like some basic plain old greed > and self indulgent type behavior to me! This is why we find so > much misery in our world at any given time, and any given place -- > it's always about me, me,me, me!!! Well, take just a few precious > seconds and do some REAL soul searching then see what it's truly > all about -- life I mean -- then maybe a few of you may come to a > different realization!!! > > Now I'm through, I'll step of off the proverbial soapbox and await > my stoning, but I felt lead to say what I did. Oh yea, you may > also excommunicate me as well if the desire is there. > > Thanks for your time in indulging my rant! > > Mal > > > > > _______________________________________________ > IMCA mailing list > IMCA at imcamail.de > http://lists.imcamail.de/mailman/listinfo/imca From pshugar at clearwire.net Thu Jul 24 16:41:08 2008 From: pshugar at clearwire.net (Pete Shugar) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 15:41:08 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] [IMCA] A Feeling Of Shame References: <20080724123014.2C63A1BF860@smtp0.av-mx.com> Message-ID: <002b01c8edcd$9def8da0$0201a8c0@portable> Flames------Yes siree Bob------ You are way outta line here. You try to guilt me into giving because I just should!!!! OK. Try living on about $750 a month. Pay all your bills. Buy food at ever higher prices. Buy gas!! Have a nice meteorite collection of meteorites, all of which are ~5 grams or less because you can't afford the 6.2 Kg Lunar. Even with co-pay on your meds, it's too much. Choose to be either healthy or hungry!!!! Choose to either walk (you're cripple) or ride, (oops can't afford the gas). Do you see me out begging? NO NO NO NO I watch my pennies and look for the DEAL when buying anything, meteorites included. Don't you even dare to tell me I should offer something. You know absolutely nothing about my circumstances. Lastly, how do you know that I haven't offered something? You owe every member of the list an apology. Pete IMCA 1733 {and all around educator of the students. ( Yes, I donate to students because I am blessed to have meteorites that they don't have so I share what I've got.)} ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mal Bishop" To: Cc: Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 7:26 AM Subject: [IMCA] A Feeling Of Shame Dear list members, I must say I'm somewhat disappointed in the reception/ turn-out thus far as related to the number of people on this list who have reached out and made some sort of gesture of goodwill by donating something, anything, to help a fellow community member who has REALLY undergone a horrible ordeal and still is in the midst of it -- not to mention what his wife, CJ, and other family members are having to deal with! Where are all of the 'BIG' dealers, all of the truly well fortuned collectors who have SO much that to offer up a single piece from their vaults of space treasure would be of little, if any noticeable, loss to them! Take a moment and each one of you think what it would be like if it were you in Gary's position? How would you then feel about your treasures compared to what dark, and foreboding place you now find yourself in. I'll be outright honest, I feel sort of ashamed to be associated with a community that apparently doesn't mind trying to always acquire more and more personal bounty from space, but are maybe just a little too reticent in giving up something, make a sacrifice to help a fellow 'kinsman' with the vary same passions and desires -- at least he did at one time until something much more important stepped in its place to unveil some truth of the duality of life. There is fortune and good, and then there is much suffering, loss, and indescribable pain and fear around the next bend waiting for ANYONE at ANYTIME!!! I'm sorry in advance if I'm off base, way out in left field, or just sound plain bitter, angry, or what ever label ya'll wish to place on this or me, but all I can say is it is a shame when you have a list comprised of hundreds of folks worldwide supposedly not only interested in a hobby, and appear to want to share and communicate with one another (hence why a list like this exist in the first place, correct?), but don't seem to want to reach out when a time like this comes upon us to help one of "our own" !!! I know times are getting harder financially , especially maybe here in the US for a lot of us, but still many of us are finding it possible to still invest and spend on ourselves and indulge our hobbyist desires and whims, so why then can't some of you ,if not all, offer something to show your true care, compassion, and concern, not just for another human being, but for one of us for goodness sakes! Again, I know I will probably receive some distasteful responses due to my putting my nose where maybe a lot of you feel it may not belong, but it is rather disgusting to see talk always going on about what's for sale, what I want, what can I acquire, while rarely anything is mentioned about Gary's plight save for our resident angel, Maria! It looks like some basic plain old greed and self indulgent type behavior to me! This is why we find so much misery in our world at any given time, and any given place -- it's always about me, me,me, me!!! Well, take just a few precious seconds and do some REAL soul searching then see what it's truly all about -- life I mean -- then maybe a few of you may come to a different realization!!! Now I'm through, I'll step of off the proverbial soapbox and await my stoning, but I felt lead to say what I did. Oh yea, you may also excommunicate me as well if the desire is there. Thanks for your time in indulging my rant! Mal -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ IMCA mailing list IMCA at imcamail.de http://lists.imcamail.de/mailman/listinfo/imca From psc2410xi at yahoo.com Thu Jul 24 17:06:33 2008 From: psc2410xi at yahoo.com (Don Rawlings) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 14:06:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] [IMCA] A Feeling Of Shame In-Reply-To: <002b01c8edcd$9def8da0$0201a8c0@portable> Message-ID: <733152.3855.qm@web59313.mail.re1.yahoo.com> How about sending an email to Lil' Bush and the other right-wing Republicans that would rather see families bankrupted than doing something constructive about health care in this country. Don Rawlings > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mal Bishop" > > To: > Cc: > Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 7:26 AM > Subject: [IMCA] A Feeling Of Shame > > > > > Dear list members, > > I must say I'm somewhat disappointed in the reception/ > turn-out thus > far as related to the number of people on this list who > have reached > out and made some sort of gesture of goodwill by donating > something, > anything, to help a fellow community member who has REALLY > undergone > a horrible ordeal and still is in the midst of it -- not to > mention > what his wife, CJ, and other family members are having to > deal > with! Where are all of the 'BIG' dealers, all of > the truly well > fortuned collectors who have SO much that to offer up a > single piece > from their vaults of space treasure would be of little, if > any > noticeable, loss to them! Take a moment and each one of > you think > what it would be like if it were you in Gary's > position? How would > you then feel about your treasures compared to what dark, > and > foreboding place you now find yourself in. I'll be > outright honest, > I feel sort of ashamed to be associated with a community > that > apparently doesn't mind trying to always acquire more > and more > personal bounty from space, but are maybe just a little too > reticent > in giving up something, make a sacrifice to help a fellow > 'kinsman' > with the vary same passions and desires -- at least he did > at one > time until something much more important stepped in its > place to > unveil some truth of the duality of life. There is fortune > and good, > and then there is much suffering, loss, and indescribable > pain and > fear around the next bend waiting for ANYONE at ANYTIME!!! > > I'm sorry in advance if I'm off base, way out in > left field, or just > sound plain bitter, angry, or what ever label ya'll > wish to place on > this or me, but all I can say is it is a shame when you > have a list > comprised of hundreds of folks worldwide supposedly not > only > interested in a hobby, and appear to want to share and > communicate > with one another (hence why a list like this exist in the > first > place, correct?), but don't seem to want to reach out > when a time > like this comes upon us to help one of "our own" > !!! I know times > are getting harder financially , especially maybe here in > the US for > a lot of us, but still many of us are finding it possible > to still > invest and spend on ourselves and indulge our hobbyist > desires and > whims, so why then can't some of you ,if not all, offer > something to > show your true care, compassion, and concern, not just for > another > human being, but for one of us for goodness sakes! > > Again, I know I will probably receive some distasteful > responses due > to my putting my nose where maybe a lot of you feel it may > not > belong, but it is rather disgusting to see talk always > going on about > what's for sale, what I want, what can I acquire, while > rarely > anything is mentioned about Gary's plight save for our > resident > angel, Maria! It looks like some basic plain old greed and > self > indulgent type behavior to me! This is why we find so much > misery in > our world at any given time, and any given place -- > it's always about > me, me,me, me!!! Well, take just a few precious seconds > and do some > REAL soul searching then see what it's truly all about > -- life I mean > -- then maybe a few of you may come to a different > realization!!! > > Now I'm through, I'll step of off the proverbial > soapbox and await my > stoning, but I felt lead to say what I did. Oh yea, you > may also > excommunicate me as well if the desire is there. > > Thanks for your time in indulging my rant! > > Mal > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > _______________________________________________ > IMCA mailing list > IMCA at imcamail.de > http://lists.imcamail.de/mailman/listinfo/imca > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoritemall at yahoo.com Thu Jul 24 17:20:24 2008 From: meteoritemall at yahoo.com (Ruben Garcia) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 14:20:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] A question about Antarctica vs Alaska meteorite hunting. Message-ID: <604001.51208.qm@web32502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi all, As most of you know I've been a professional meteorite hunter for years. However, my expertise is limited to the southwestern part of the United States. I know that many of you follow the work done in Antarctica a lot more closely than I do. I know that meteorites have been recovered there for over two decades and more recently in eastern Manitoba, Canada. All due to ancient glaciers and their movements. My questions are as follows: 1)Has anyone really searched for meteorites in other glacial areas such as Alaska? 2)Is there any reason to believe that meteorites wouldn't be found there? 3)Are the Alaskan glaciers old enough to sufficiently "catch" meteorites? I may be planning a trip there and would like any advice on the subject. Ruben Garcia Phoenix, Arizona http://www.mr-meteorite.com http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=meteorfright&p=v From dave at fallingrocks.com Thu Jul 24 17:57:37 2008 From: dave at fallingrocks.com (Dave Gheesling) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 17:57:37 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] myopic? In-Reply-To: <1C1026F3-8CC1-4297-9A29-C083A33BAB10@dof3.com> References: <1C1026F3-8CC1-4297-9A29-C083A33BAB10@dof3.com> Message-ID: <6C68547602CE4AECBA3332B7F0DD17BC@meteorroom> It might also be nice to give some charity to the Footes, as I'm sure they'd rather not be at the eye of this ridiculous storm -- particularly at present. There are myriad (more, actually) causes out there for the world to support, and if helping the Footes in some way is on your radar, great. If not, that's fine too. I believe this started as an IMCA fundraiser, and I don't think Michael is even an IMCA member so it's not clear why he'd be dragged into this anyway (or anyone else who doesn't choose the same). Darryl's right: let it go. What gives? Dave www.fallingrocks.com -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Pitt Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 4:41 PM To: Dave Carothers Cc: imca at imcamail.de; Meteorite Mailing List Subject: [meteorite-list] myopic? however well-meaning the intentions, the commentary below is indeed self-indulgent and naive. however, as i would so like to believe the comments were well- meaning, perhaps it's time to show some charity to mal by moving on. On Jul 24, 2008, at 3:44 PM, Dave Carothers wrote: > Mal, > > I must say that I'm somewhat disappointed in the arrogant and > condescending comments you made on the list. > > Dave Carothers > -----Original Message----- > From: imca-bounces at imcamail.de [mailto:imca-bounces at imcamail.de]On > Behalf Of Mal Bishop > Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 8:27 AM > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Cc: imca at imcamail.de > Subject: [IMCA] A Feeling Of Shame > > > > Dear list members, > > I must say I'm somewhat disappointed in the reception/ turn-out > thus far as related to the number of people on this list who have > reached out and made some sort of gesture of goodwill by donating > something, anything, to help a fellow community member who has > REALLY undergone a horrible ordeal and still is in the midst of it > -- not to mention what his wife, CJ, and other family members are > having to deal with! Where are all of the 'BIG' dealers, all of > the truly well fortuned collectors who have SO much that to offer > up a single piece from their vaults of space treasure would be of > little, if any noticeable, loss to them! Take a moment and each > one of you think what it would be like if it were you in Gary's > position? How would you then feel about your treasures compared to > what dark, and foreboding place you now find yourself in. I'll be > outright honest, I feel sort of ashamed to be associated with a > community that apparently doesn't mind trying to always acquire > more and more personal bounty from space, but are maybe just a > little too reticent in giving up something, make a sacrifice to > help a fellow 'kinsman' with the vary same passions and desires -- > at least he did at one time until something much more important > stepped in its place to unveil some truth of the duality of life. > There is fortune and good, and then there is much suffering, loss, > and indescribable pain and fear around the next bend waiting for > ANYONE at ANYTIME!!! > > I'm sorry in advance if I'm off base, way out in left field, or > just sound plain bitter, angry, or what ever label ya'll wish to > place on this or me, but all I can say is it is a shame when you > have a list comprised of hundreds of folks worldwide supposedly not > only interested in a hobby, and appear to want to share and > communicate with one another (hence why a list like this exist in > the first place, correct?), but don't seem to want to reach out > when a time like this comes upon us to help one of "our own" !!! > I know times are getting harder financially , especially maybe here > in the US for a lot of us, but still many of us are finding it > possible to still invest and spend on ourselves and indulge our > hobbyist desires and whims, so why then can't some of you ,if not > all, offer something to show your true care, compassion, and > concern, not just for another human being, but for one of us for > goodness sakes! > > Again, I know I will probably receive some distasteful responses > due to my putting my nose where maybe a lot of you feel it may not > belong, but it is rather disgusting to see talk always going on > about what's for sale, what I want, what can I acquire, while > rarely anything is mentioned about Gary's plight save for our > resident angel, Maria! It looks like some basic plain old greed > and self indulgent type behavior to me! This is why we find so > much misery in our world at any given time, and any given place -- > it's always about me, me,me, me!!! Well, take just a few precious > seconds and do some REAL soul searching then see what it's truly > all about -- life I mean -- then maybe a few of you may come to a > different realization!!! > > Now I'm through, I'll step of off the proverbial soapbox and await > my stoning, but I felt lead to say what I did. Oh yea, you may > also excommunicate me as well if the desire is there. > > Thanks for your time in indulging my rant! > > Mal > > > > > _______________________________________________ > IMCA mailing list > IMCA at imcamail.de > http://lists.imcamail.de/mailman/listinfo/imca ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoritemall at yahoo.com Thu Jul 24 20:53:25 2008 From: meteoritemall at yahoo.com (Ruben Garcia) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 17:53:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] A question about Antarctica vs Alaska meteorite hunting. In-Reply-To: <773878.17837.qm@web55208.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <15836.19702.qm@web32502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Great information, Thanks! Ruben Garcia Phoenix, Arizona http://www.mr-meteorite.com http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=meteorfright&p=v --- On Thu, 7/24/08, Mr EMan wrote: > From: Mr EMan > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A question about Antarctica vs Alaska meteorite hunting. > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, meteoritemall at yahoo.com > Date: Thursday, July 24, 2008, 4:24 PM > Hello Ruben? Good question. > > What makes the recovery in Antarctica is a combination of > rare processes and not just glaciers catching up > meteorites.?? It takes a rare combination of bedrock, ice > and wind to expose the meteorite fields in Antarctica. > > Meteorites falling into the main flow are likely lost > forever.? But if it falls along the edge of the field in a > side lobe-- not in the main glacial flow--there is a chance > it can be exposed again.? Sometimes thousands of years > later.? The ice in the top portion of the lobe doesn't > scour the bedrock and stir up rock fragments like the main > flow does and has minimal inclusions of earth rock in the > load carried by the ice. ? A lobe occurs near a bottleneck > and is like a slow motion wave getting sloshed out of a bath > tub-- being pushed out of the "tub" itself by the > main flow and rising bedrock.? When the lobe hits the > valley rim-- a gentle slope or buried ridge-line, the ice > is forced? up and over it, exposing the ice to very high > velocity and extremely dry winds. This action scours away > the ice matrix --perhaps even sublimates some ice directly > into water vapor.? In any event, the ice is removed by > wind action leaving the meteorites concentrated on > the surface.? "Concentrated" implies a placer > deposit but in fact means that in fives and tens meteorites > are exposed each season before the ice flows over the slope > and they are reburied in ice unless recovered by the annual > meteorite search teams. > > I believe that a few iron meteorites have been recovered in > glacial moraines elsewhere but that is a different > concentration mechanism and they certainly aren't > separated out from the earth rock!.? Active glaciers such > as associated with caving icebergs carry whatever load they > have inside them into the sea. > > Meteorites don't seem to survive long in moist frequent > freeze thaw environments making finding stone meteorites > remote.? I don't know the circumstances of recent > Canadian meteorites and couldn't say if they were > related to glaciers.? The environment in glacial fields is > against stones but favors irons, IMHO, so long as the ice > doesn't make icebergs but ends in annual moraine > building piles of debris. > > Elton > > --- On Thu, 7/24/08, Ruben Garcia > wrote: > Hi all, > I know that many of you follow the work done in Antarctica > a lot more closely > than I do. I know that meteorites have been recovered there > for over two > decades and more recently in eastern Manitoba, Canada. All > due to ancient > glaciers and their movements. My questions are as follows: > > 1)Has anyone really searched for meteorites in other > glacial areas such as > Alaska? > > 2)Is there any reason to believe that meteorites > wouldn't be found there? > 3)Are the Alaskan glaciers old enough to sufficiently > "catch"meteorites? From michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com Thu Jul 24 21:42:30 2008 From: michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com (Michael Gilmer) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 18:42:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Calling Michael Blood! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <504554.50434.qm@web58410.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi Listees! I have been trying to reach Michael Blood via email, but I am having no luck. I think my emails might be getting caught up spam filters. Michael, please email me offlist. :) BTW, my wife's routine gallbladder surgery turned into a cancer scare and a 6 hour major surgery. It was the worst case of peptic ulcers the surgeon had ever seen. Her gall bladder was removed, her common bile duct was reconstructed, her duodenum was removed, and part of her small intestine was rerouted to her to stomach to bypass the missing duodenum. The surgeon was amazed that she was walking around with this inside her and said it could have become life-threatening at any time. Her prognosis is now good, and after 3 days in ICU and a week in the hospital, she is finally coming home tomorrow. :) Now I can get back to thinking about meteorites a little bit. ;) Regards and clear skies, MikeG ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale .......................................................... From nightsky55 at gmail.com Thu Jul 24 22:18:15 2008 From: nightsky55 at gmail.com (Bob King) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 21:18:15 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA knows about Space Aliens, audio files In-Reply-To: <5496B87142C14B0289713958647D178D@den> References: <5496B87142C14B0289713958647D178D@den> Message-ID: <99c1e91a0807241918i6d13850bn415c648d1e81f957@mail.gmail.com> Hi all, Mitchell was the astronaut who performed ESP experiments while aboard Apollo to the moon. Check out the Wikipedia entry on his interest in the paranormal and how he believes he was healed of kidney cancer. I'd be on the skeptical side of his alien report. Bob On 7/24/08, Timothy Heitz wrote: > Hi List, > > You can also hear it hear also on U-Tube. > http://youtube.com/watch?v=WXTXbi_VhJU > > Astronaut Dr. Edgar > Mitchell (6th man to walk on the Moon) talking about real space aliens on > UK radio interview with Kerrang! Radio. > > > Tim Heitz > > Home of the Orignal Meteorite Pusher :) > http://www.meteorman.org/page_3.htm > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: > To: > Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 11:59 AM > Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA knows about Space Aliens, audio files > > > > > Hey List, > > > > Here is the actual audio clip of NASA Moon-Walking Astronaut Dr. Edgar > > Mitchell (6th man to walk on the Moon) talking about real space aliens on > UK radio > > interview with Kerrang! Radio. > > > > http://www.kerrangradio.co.uk/Article.asp?id=804160&spid= > > > > Interesting. > > > > If NASA has communication with aliens, why don't we use them to get > asteroid > > samples as well as Martian and Lunar specimens? > > > > I only include that last line to keep this "on topic" for our list. > > > > But it does beg the question, what else is NASA covering up? And if > there > > is a real cover up, I would expect they will try to shut up Dr. Mitchell > very > > quickly. Then again, if there is no real cover up, I would expect they > will > > try to shut up Dr. Mitchell very quickly. > > > > Should we expect that the good Doctor will be "abducted" soon, and we > will > > never hear from him ever again? > > > > NOTICE: There is no "Joke" disclaimer placed ANYWHERE in these email. > > > > Steve #1 > > > > > > > > > > **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for > > FanHouse Fantasy Football today. > > > (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From michael at spacerocksinc.com Thu Jul 24 23:33:28 2008 From: michael at spacerocksinc.com (Michael Johnson) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 20:33:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - July 25, 2008 Message-ID: <15947068.722321216956808237.JavaMail.root@mbs4.homesteadmail.com> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/July_25_2008.html From bristolia at yahoo.com Fri Jul 25 11:19:43 2008 From: bristolia at yahoo.com (Paul) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 08:19:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Thanks For Help "Catalog of Meteorites" Software Problem Message-ID: <444462.90492.qm@web36206.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I thank Sean, Sterling, Marco, Pete, Bob, and everyone else for their advice for how to solve the problem with the ?Catalog of Meteorite? software. The URLs, which you all provided were very helpful in finding the software and were to put it. Helpful URLs for this type of error provided in an email to me: http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=.dll+error+message&meta= http://www.computerhope.com/issues/ch000749.htm Best Regards, Paul H. From m42protosun at aol.com Fri Jul 25 14:53:05 2008 From: m42protosun at aol.com (m42protosun at aol.com) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 14:53:05 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] New possible impact structures detected NH. US. In-Reply-To: <511967.31784.qm@web53210.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CABC9ECE8BD0FA-1B74-2260@mblk-d48.sysops.aol.com> Good evening Dirk (MEZ 20:40) Hello list, thank you for your comment to possible impact structure in Australia (Northeast of Henbury). I have now noticed the altitude funktion of GE (Mouse shifting). Hunting impact sites was a hobby of me about nearly 40 years ago, when I was employed in oil prospection companies. My job was analysing seismic waves on an IBM 7060 computer which was at that time one of the fastes of the world. often I found in the waves an echo of compressed limestone. After a long pause I started again in the 90s visiting the german structures Noerdlingern Ries and Steinheimer Becken. At that time it was aloud to prospect the scene as hobby mineralogist and I found some very nice cones. Today it is forbidden and I use GOOGLE. Now my answer to your comment: In a desert area a 1 meter higher level around a ring of trees must not be the a hill. It could be a dune of sand. Remember! During impact the crater wall inside is hard forced by shearing forces and the crater center is forced by hard pressure. After years of weathering the crater will be filled with sand and everytime when it becames wet the ring of sheared limestone around the compressede center takes off the water and the sand enters the higher porosity. It sinks and build the water reservoir for the vegetation.So it might be a filled crater. If you compare it against the small Henburies you will see the same eff ect. My theory is that the Henbury cluster is not the total impact area and that Boxhole is a crater of the cluster too. Between both there must be a lot of other impacts. I have put a ruler from one to the other and on this line a lot of images look like impact structures. But I'm not im Australia. Therefore I can only make a conjecture. Other "impact structures": 24?29'34.68"S, 133?13'30.44"E Now to New Hamshire, US. look at: 43? 6'42.49"N, 71?11'24.44"W 43?16'57.90"N, 71?11'6.78"W 42?54'53.69"N, 71?35'36.35"W I did not know wether they are or wether they are wellknown. Tell me please your meaning Sincerely Uwe -----Urspr?ngliche Mitteilung----- Von: drtanuki An: m42protosun at aol.com Verschickt: Fr., 25. Jul. 2008, 2:04 Thema: Re: [meteorite-list] New possible impact structures detected Hi Uwe, It appears to be a small circular hill surrounded by vegetation. The center is higher than the surrounding area and the water drains off of the sides of the hill providing more water to support the vegetation (shrubs or trees). Use your mouse and move the cursor over the feature and you can see the elevations as you move around the feature. Also tilt it an you can see some indication that it is about 1 meter above the surrounding circular base. Dirk How long have you been looking for impact craters and what start ed your interest? Best of luck! --- On Fri, 7/25/08, m42protosun at aol.com wrote: > From: m42protosun at aol.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New possible impact structures detected > To: drtanuki at yahoo.com > Date: Friday, July 25, 2008, 2:39 AM > Hi Dirk, look at 24?27'46.92"S, > 133?16'9.01"E. > What do you think is it? > Uwe > > > -----Urspr?ngliche Mitteilung----- > Von: drtanuki > An: Mark Ford ; Uwe > ; > meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Verschickt: Do., 24. Jul. 2008, 12:52 > Thema: Re: [meteorite-list] New possible impact structures > detected > > > > Hello Mark, Uwe and List, > Thank you both for your posts. > Mark I do not see any evidence for any military activity > to the > South. The > darkened areas around the animal pens are manure and the > buildings are > all > intact. > The circular "target" that Uwe has found is > difficult to determine > just what > it is because of its size and the poor resolution of the > image. > Elevations at > the site do not indicate a circular depression and tilted > images only > reveal > that is is on a hillslope. > Mark is correct that the Antarctica image is just too > poor to tell > anything. > Best Regards, Dirk Ross...Tokyo > > > --- On Thu, 7/24/08, Mark Ford > wrote: > > > From: Mark Ford > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New possible impact > structures detected > > To: m42protosun at aol.com, > meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > Date: Thursday, July 24, 2008, 6:17 PM > > Hi Uwe, > > > > Not sure about the Peru one, it looks like a military > > training range or similar! - scan to the south and > there > > are some burned out building it's like a firin > g range > > or similar, so could be a bomb crater? > > > > The Antarctica one is difficult to say, as the > resolution > > is way too low on google to see any detail, could be > > anything ice makes all kind of patterns! > > > > Best, > > Mark > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] > On > > Behalf Of m42protosun at aol.com > > Sent: 24 July 2008 00:48 > > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > Subject: [meteorite-list] New possible impact > structures > > detected > > > > Good evening list, > > Using GOOGLE I have found two possible impact > structures, > > which are > > nowhere to be found. Would you please be so kind to > control > > my > > assumption. > > Peru: 17?34'09.00'' S; > > 69?40'53.59'' W > > Antarctica: 80?49'60.00'' S; > > 126?19'60.00'' E > > > > Regards Uwe > > > > > __________________ ______________________________________________________ > > AOL eMail auf Ihrem Handy! Ab sofort k?nnen Sie auch > > unterwegs Ihre AOL > > email abrufen. Registrieren Sie sich jetzt kostenlos. > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: > > > > This email and any files transmitted with it are > > confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, > please > > notify us. Email info at ssl.gb.com. You should not copy > or use > > this email o > r attachment(s) for any purpose nor disclose > > their contents to any other person. > > > > GENERAL STATEMENT: > > > > Southern Scientific Ltd's computer systems may be > > monitored and communications carried on them recorded, > to > > secure the effective operation of the system and for > other > > lawful purposes. > > > > Registered address Rectory Farm Rd, Sompting, Lancing, > W > > Sussex BN15 0DP. Company No 1800317 > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > AOL eMail auf Ihrem Handy! Ab sofort k?nnen Sie auch > unterwegs Ihre AOL=0 D > email abrufen. Registrieren Sie sich jetzt kostenlos. ________________________________________________________________________ AOL eMail auf Ihrem Handy! Ab sofort k?nnen Sie auch unterwegs Ihre AOL email abrufen. Registrieren Sie sich jetzt kostenlos. From meteoritekid at gmail.com Fri Jul 25 15:46:09 2008 From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 12:46:09 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] New possible impact structures detected NH. US. In-Reply-To: <8CABC9ECE8BD0FA-1B74-2260@mblk-d48.sysops.aol.com> References: <511967.31784.qm@web53210.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <8CABC9ECE8BD0FA-1B74-2260@mblk-d48.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <93aaac890807251246g46f9a7d4p4e8d68232d685397@mail.gmail.com> Hey All, While looking around, I stumbled across this: 25?01'03.94" 133?17'15.25" Is this a known crater? It sure looks like a crater to me...a fresh, obvious crater...... Regards, Jason On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 11:53 AM, wrote: > Good evening Dirk (MEZ 20:40) > Hello list, > thank you for your comment to possible impact structure in Australia > (Northeast of Henbury). > I have now noticed the altitude funktion of GE (Mouse shifting). Hunting > impact sites was a hobby of me about > nearly 40 years ago, when I was employed in oil prospection companies. My > job was analysing seismic waves on > an IBM 7060 computer which was at that time one of the fastes of the world. > often I found in the waves an echo > of compressed limestone. After a long pause I started again in the 90s > visiting the german structures > Noerdlingern Ries and Steinheimer Becken. At that time it was aloud to > prospect the scene as hobby > mineralogist and I found some very nice cones. Today it is forbidden and I > use GOOGLE. > > Now my answer to your comment: > In a desert area a 1 meter higher level around a ring of trees must not be > the a hill. It could be a dune of > sand. Remember! During impact the crater wall inside is hard forced by > shearing forces and the crater center > is forced by hard pressure. After years of weathering the crater will be > filled with sand and everytime when > it becames wet the ring of sheared limestone around the compressede center > takes off the water and the sand > enters the higher porosity. It sinks and build the water reservoir for the > vegetation.So it might be a filled > crater. If you compare it against the small Henburies you will see the same > eff > ect. > My theory is that the Henbury cluster is not the total impact area and that > Boxhole is a crater of the cluster > too. Between both there must be a lot of other impacts. I have put a ruler > from one to the other and on this > line a lot of images look like impact structures. But I'm not im Australia. > Therefore I can only make a > conjecture. > > Other "impact structures": > 24?29'34.68"S, 133?13'30.44"E > > > Now to New Hamshire, US. look at: > 43? 6'42.49"N, 71?11'24.44"W > 43?16'57.90"N, 71?11'6.78"W > 42?54'53.69"N, 71?35'36.35"W > I did not know wether they are or wether they are wellknown. > > Tell me please your meaning > Sincerely Uwe > > > -----Urspr?ngliche Mitteilung----- > Von: drtanuki > An: m42protosun at aol.com > Verschickt: Fr., 25. Jul. 2008, 2:04 > Thema: Re: [meteorite-list] New possible impact structures detected > > > > Hi Uwe, > It appears to be a small circular hill surrounded by vegetation. The > center > is higher than the surrounding area and the water drains off of the sides of > the > hill providing more water to support the vegetation (shrubs or trees). Use > your > mouse and move the cursor over the feature and you can see the elevations as > you > move around the feature. Also tilt it an you can see some indication that > it is > about 1 meter above the surrounding circular base. Dirk > > How long have you been looking for impact craters and what start > ed your > interest? Best of luck! > > > --- On Fri, 7/25/08, m42protosun at aol.com wrote: > >> From: m42protosun at aol.com >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New possible impact structures detected >> To: drtanuki at yahoo.com >> Date: Friday, July 25, 2008, 2:39 AM >> Hi Dirk, look at 24?27'46.92"S, >> 133?16'9.01"E. >> What do you think is it? >> Uwe >> >> >> -----Urspr?ngliche Mitteilung----- >> Von: drtanuki >> An: Mark Ford ; Uwe >> ; >> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> Verschickt: Do., 24. Jul. 2008, 12:52 >> Thema: Re: [meteorite-list] New possible impact structures >> detected >> >> >> >> Hello Mark, Uwe and List, >> Thank you both for your posts. >> Mark I do not see any evidence for any military activity >> to the >> South. The >> darkened areas around the animal pens are manure and the >> buildings are >> all >> intact. >> The circular "target" that Uwe has found is >> difficult to determine >> just what >> it is because of its size and the poor resolution of the >> image. >> Elevations at >> the site do not indicate a circular depression and tilted >> images only >> reveal >> that is is on a hillslope. >> Mark is correct that the Antarctica image is just too >> poor to tell >> anything. >> Best Regards, Dirk Ross...Tokyo >> >> >> --- On Thu, 7/24/08, Mark Ford > >> wrote: >> >> > From: Mark Ford >> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New possible impact >> structures detected >> > To: m42protosun at aol.com, >> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> > Date: Thursday, July 24, 2008, 6:17 PM >> > Hi Uwe, >> > >> > Not sure about the Peru one, it looks like a military >> > training range or similar! - scan to the south and >> there >> > are some burned out building it's like a firin >> g range >> > or similar, so could be a bomb crater? >> > >> > The Antarctica one is difficult to say, as the >> resolution >> > is way too low on google to see any detail, could be >> > anything ice makes all kind of patterns! >> > >> > Best, >> > Mark >> > >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com >> > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] >> On >> > Behalf Of m42protosun at aol.com >> > Sent: 24 July 2008 00:48 >> > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> > Subject: [meteorite-list] New possible impact >> structures >> > detected >> > >> > Good evening list, >> > Using GOOGLE I have found two possible impact >> structures, >> > which are >> > nowhere to be found. Would you please be so kind to >> control >> > my >> > assumption. >> > Peru: 17?34'09.00'' S; >> > 69?40'53.59'' W >> > Antarctica: 80?49'60.00'' S; >> > 126?19'60.00'' E >> > >> > Regards Uwe >> > >> > >> > __________________ > ______________________________________________________ >> >> > AOL eMail auf Ihrem Handy! Ab sofort k?nnen Sie auch >> > unterwegs Ihre AOL >> > email abrufen. Registrieren Sie sich jetzt kost