From entropydave at ntlworld.com Sun Jun 1 04:30:17 2008 From: entropydave at ntlworld.com (Dave Harris) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 09:30:17 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] unnoticed? Message-ID: Hi, was it just me being my usual unobservant self... but I am surpirsed that the 100th anniversary of the Tunguska Event went by so unnoticed! dave IMCA #0092 Sec.BIMS. www.bimsociety.org From mlblood at cox.net Sun Jun 1 06:20:07 2008 From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael L Blood) Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2008 03:20:07 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Just Another Question In-Reply-To: <001101c8c20d$06859400$0201a8c0@laptop> Message-ID: Pete, This occurred to me many years ago - I always thought an "Earth meteorite" would be one of if not THE coolest meteorite Ever. Best wishes, Michael on 5/29/08 9:24 PM, Pete Shugar at pshugar at clearwire.net wrote: > Hello list, > I've given this more than just a passing thought as I think this is a very > intreguing question. > If an impactor smacks into the moon with enough energy, objects will be > dislodged. > If they make it to earth intact, we have a luner meteorite. > Same goes for Mars and Astroid 4Vesta. > So,.....suppose we have a very high speed impactor that hits earth, and > dislodges material that is now in orbit. If the material crosses Earth's > orbit again, and survives to the surface of earth, would it be modified in > it's appearance to the extent that it would be seen as a meteorite and not > just another rock? > Has anything ever been found that might be in this class of material? > Would there be anything that would set it apart as a different > rock/meteorite? > > Pete > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably.. And never regret anything that made you smile. From p.marmet at mysunrise.ch Sun Jun 1 06:37:02 2008 From: p.marmet at mysunrise.ch (Peter Marmet) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 12:37:02 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] unnoticed? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <21D7F723-F87C-41D3-BF0B-8E78FD0C6E81@mysunrise.ch> ...only 29 days to the event ! Cheers, Peter Dave Harris wrote: > Hi, > was it just me being my usual unobservant self... but I am > surpirsed that the 100th anniversary of the Tunguska Event went by > so unnoticed! > > > dave > IMCA #0092 > Sec.BIMS. > www.bimsociety.org > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mmurray at montrose.net Sun Jun 1 08:58:56 2008 From: mmurray at montrose.net (Michael Murray) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 06:58:56 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] unnoticed? In-Reply-To: <21D7F723-F87C-41D3-BF0B-8E78FD0C6E81@mysunrise.ch> References: <21D7F723-F87C-41D3-BF0B-8E78FD0C6E81@mysunrise.ch> Message-ID: <0FBD29AD-86B0-4F68-A220-D854C28745C8@montrose.net> Kagarlyk L6 chondrite should get a mention then too, eh? Maybe it flew wingman to the big one. : ) Mike On Jun 1, 2008, at 4:37 AM, Peter Marmet wrote: > ...only 29 days to the event ! > Cheers, Peter > > > Dave Harris wrote: > >> Hi, >> was it just me being my usual unobservant self... but I am >> surpirsed that the 100th anniversary of the Tunguska Event went by >> so unnoticed! >> >> >> dave >> IMCA #0092 >> Sec.BIMS. >> www.bimsociety.org >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Sun Jun 1 10:59:57 2008 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 07:59:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite art presented to Stephen Hawking. In-Reply-To: <483FE0DC.9000706@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <396348.9782.qm@web55209.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Dear Graham, Congratulations of a higher order! As a collector of old woodblock cuts,fabric stamps, and engravings in general, I can appreciate the technical side of your art--rather a brilliant stroke of insight, I should think. I'd enjoy a link to your work else, feel free to email some images. I await the arrival of your presentation photos as well. Regards, Elton From info at niger-meteorite-recon.de Sun Jun 1 11:02:09 2008 From: info at niger-meteorite-recon.de (Dr. Svend Buhl) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 17:02:09 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite and Glorieta report References: <001101c8c20d$06859400$0201a8c0@laptop> <000c01c8c2b2$a7654be0$0201a8c0@laptop> <4840A129.9040204@kconline.com><8CA9157A1602F6B-C8C-34A6@webmail-mf03.sysops.aol.com> <8CA91596A2F78D3-C8C-3500@webmail-mf03.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <00c401c8c3f8$779ea310$6401a8c0@HOME> Meteorite! arrived here last week and I wanted to take the opportunity to thank the editors for their continuing efforts to provide high quality infotainment to the meteoritical community. I'd like to recommend to you particularly the articles of Doug Dawn, Robert Woolard and Don McColl on Glorieta, Muonionalusta and tektite bubbles from Australia. The author of the latter article is probably not only the most knowledgeable expert on the field of Australian tektites but also among the finest gentlemen from down under which I had so far the pleasure to correspond with. Thanks for sharing. Svend www.meteorite-recon.com From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Sun Jun 1 14:51:36 2008 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 14:51:36 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 1, 2008 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/June_1_2008.html **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) From darryl at dof3.com Sun Jun 1 15:42:34 2008 From: darryl at dof3.com (Darryl Pitt) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 15:42:34 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 1, 2008 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: wow! a hall of fame "picture of the day." outstanding stuff. great specimen, printing and story. graham, please make a limited edition and would then gladly purchase a print. so excellent. On Jun 1, 2008, at 2:51 PM, SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com wrote: > http://www.rocksfromspace.org/June_1_2008.html > > > > > **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking > with > Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. > (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&? > NCID=aolfod00030000000002) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From dave at fallingrocks.com Sun Jun 1 16:17:25 2008 From: dave at fallingrocks.com (Dave Gheesling) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 16:17:25 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 1, 2008 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Double ditto. Dave -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Pitt Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 3:43 PM To: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Cc: Meteorite Mailing List Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 1,2008 wow! a hall of fame "picture of the day." outstanding stuff. great specimen, printing and story. graham, please make a limited edition and would then gladly purchase a print. so excellent. On Jun 1, 2008, at 2:51 PM, SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com wrote: > http://www.rocksfromspace.org/June_1_2008.html > > > > > **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking > with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. > (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&? > NCID=aolfod00030000000002) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From rob at nakhladogmeteorites.com Sun Jun 1 16:39:22 2008 From: rob at nakhladogmeteorites.com (Rob Wesel) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 13:39:22 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] WOW!!!! Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 1, 2008 References: Message-ID: <002c01c8c427$a71307b0$6501a8c0@windows9bb74fe> That's the coolest thing I've seen in a long time, a meteorite's fingerprint. Spot-on Graham! Rob Wesel http://www.nakhladogmeteorites.com ------------------ We are the music makers... and we are the dreamers of the dreams. Willy Wonka, 1971 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 11:51 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 1, 2008 > http://www.rocksfromspace.org/June_1_2008.html > > > > > **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with > Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. > (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From almitt at kconline.com Sun Jun 1 17:46:38 2008 From: almitt at kconline.com (AL Mitterling) Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2008 17:46:38 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad: Ebay Auctions In-Reply-To: <00c401c8c3f8$779ea310$6401a8c0@HOME> References: <001101c8c20d$06859400$0201a8c0@laptop> <000c01c8c2b2$a7654be0$0201a8c0@laptop> <4840A129.9040204@kconline.com><8CA9157A1602F6B-C8C-34A6@webmail-mf03.sysops.aol.com> <8CA91596A2F78D3-C8C-3500@webmail-mf03.sysops.aol.com> <00c401c8c3f8$779ea310$6401a8c0@HOME> Message-ID: <484318BE.5080606@kconline.com> Greetings, I have an ebay auction closing tomorrow in about 16 hours for a Lost City part slice. I also have a larger part slice (1/8 slice) 18 grams ending in over 5 days 16 hours. Please check these and other items up for sale and for your meteorite viewing pleasure. http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/almittmet http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/almittmet Any questions please feel free to contact me off list. --AL Mitterling From geoking at notkin.net Sun Jun 1 19:43:40 2008 From: geoking at notkin.net (Notkin) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 16:43:40 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] [AD] Major Site Update + Ebay Tonight + A Tucson Moment Message-ID: Dear Listees: Greetings all, from hot and sunny Tucson. "Summer" is well upon us here. We've already had a couple of 100+ F days. Pretty different from when you are here visiting during the gem show. The snakes and scorpions are up and about and I've seen a few of each. A Tucson moment I would like to share with you: I was out walking the other evening and came across a very large bull snake curled up in the road. He was taking a nap and wasn't pleased when I woke him up. I said: "Come on buddy, you can't sleep here. Some redneck will come along in a truck any minute and run you over." He didn't want to move and started hissing at me. I was clapping and jumping up and down and trying to get him out of harm's way when an elderly miner 49er-type guy with long white beard suddenly appeared -- as if from nowhere -- out of the brush next to the road, with a tin mug in his hand. "Whatcha doing feller?" "Well, I'm trying to get this snake out of the road before he gets hurt." "Yep! He can't sleep there or some redneck'll come along and squish him fer sure." So, between us, we eventually manage to coax the big snake back into the brush and then the old miner guy disappeared himself into a thicket of mesquite trees after assuring me that we would have "good karma" for helping the snake. Only in Tucson. And before that, I took an uncharacteristically long and very overdue vacation, so if anyone's been trying to reach me, sorry about that. Even I don't work *all* the time, and the laptop wasn't faring too well on the road : ) Back to business: On Friday we completed the largest-ever single update to Aerolite.org. New additions include Gibeon, Toluca, Henbury, Mundrabilla, Chinga, Sikhote-Alin, Canyon Diablo, really nice pre-NWA Labenne Sahara stones with hand painted field numbers, oriented Millbillillies with 100% crust and tons of flow lines, complete crusted NWA stones, Libyan Desert Glass including some super-rare green specimens, excellent moldavites, historic Odessas found by Captain Draeger in the 1940s -- a U.S. Navy officer who was a friend and close associate of Nininger's -- and even some Darwin Glass. Our main sale catalogue directory is here: http://www.aerolite.org/meteorites-for-sale.htm Or you can view all new additions on one easy-to-use page here: http://www.aerolite.org/new.htm You'll notice that a few pieces are already reserved. They were snapped up by friends and colleagues on my preferred customer mailing list. My personal list members always get advance notice of interesting new material. If you'd like to be part of that list just send me an email. No cost, no obligation, no spam, and you can unsub at any time. Most of the Draeger Odessas went really fast. I have a few more, not yet photographed, so let me know if you want one and we'll take some shots for you. Every Draeger Odessa comes with an exclusive vintage photo reproduction of Cpt. Draeger and one of his large Odessa finds, taken in 1947. My News & Adventures page has also been updated with info about our Nat Geo show, and some Tucson 2008 photos: http://www.aerolite.org/news.htm Thank you to everyone who supported Dr. Art Ehlmann of TCU and myself by ordering copies of the Oscar E. Monnig Meteorite Collection Catalog, which Art authored, and I designed and published. We had a few problems along the way -- delay with the slipcase manufacture; damage to many of the slipcases; and numerous copies, especially going overseas, were lost in the mail. I believe we have replaced all lost copies at our expense. If anyone ordered a copy from us and didn't yet receive it (apart from last week's orders) please let me know and we'll make good on it. Anyone who thinks publishing museum catalogs is a good way to make money, think again : ) I still have a few of the Deluxe Editions, limited to 100 copies, signed and numbered by Dr. Ehlmann, with slipcase and an exclusive custom portrait photo of Oscar Monnig, courtesy of Oscar's god daughter. If you want one, please let me know soon. Regular and Slipcase editions, we still have a good supply. Details: http://www.aerolite.org/monnig-catalog.htm And finally, a few eBay auctions ending in about an hour, including Carancas, Darwin Glass, 100% crusted Bassikounou, Vaca Muerta, and a Jim Kriegh / Twink Monrad Gold Basin. All lots with no reserve: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ25QQsassZaerolitemeteorites Thanks for listening and kind regards from the Wild West, Geoff N. www.aerolite.org www.campometeorites.com From ensoramanda at ntlworld.com Sun Jun 1 20:12:13 2008 From: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com (ensoramanda) Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 01:12:13 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 1, 2008 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48433ADD.2070407@ntlworld.com> Hi Darryl, Dave, Rob, Matt, All, I have had so many replys complimenting me on the meteorite print. Thanks so much. Many of you were asking about the possibilities of doing an edition and acquiring one of the prints. The prints and observations I am doing were not really intended as works in themselves at first, but as starting points for other pieces that are more complex.... Working drawings and prints really. Once printed I usually hand finish each piece to enhance and bring out the details I'm interested in...thus the reason it was marked as a proof. I am still experimenting with several variations in techniques at the moment. The proof trial was slotted in between other projects I am working on in order to meet the deadline for Professor Stephen Hawkings visit. I will however be doing further work on meteorite prints as soon as I find time, later this summer, and I will endeavour to produce a series or an edition. I will gladly let those interested know if or when there are any available. Many thanks for your interest. Regards, Graham Ensor From cynapse at charter.net Sun Jun 1 22:36:27 2008 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2008 22:36:27 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Name Change????? In-Reply-To: <002601c8c38d$b32ee860$0201a8c0@laptop> References: <002601c8c38d$b32ee860$0201a8c0@laptop> Message-ID: <90n6449fdfpq9kl44uop1uphrcmahsbipi@4ax.com> On Sat, 31 May 2008 21:17:51 -0500, you wrote: >they are holding a piece of another planet right in their hands. When asked >where I get my meteorites from I tell them from other members of The >International Meteorite Collectors Association of which I am a member. I say >this with pride. >If it ain't broke, don't muck with it. >Keep your chicken plucking cotton picking fingers outa the pie and leave it >alone. First-- ???? Unless I missed something, nobody has been advocating renaming something on the list. Second-- when I see the letters IMCA it makes me think of YMCA, and I get the song stuck in my head. So I always associate the IMCA with cosplaying homosexuals from the 1970s (not that there is anything wrong with that). From bigpineartifacts at yahoo.com Sun Jun 1 22:46:22 2008 From: bigpineartifacts at yahoo.com (mckinney trammell) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 19:46:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA'S Phoenix Lander Robotic Arm Camera Sees Possible Ice In-Reply-To: <200805302237.PAA21659@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <221948.75538.qm@web53208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> so.. is the next new, bitch'n backcounty ski area and terraine park gonna be on mars? if so, what are lift tix prices and it is ski-in/ ski-out ot do you gotta ride the shuttle? where will be the best apre' hang out after the lifts close? heard the airfare's kinda steep, and the rover is slow and can only take to people @ time to top of backcountry bowl. i may opt for potillo, instead. 93F but jonesing...hmt --- Ron Baalke wrote: > > http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2008-090 > > NASA'S Phoenix Lander Robotic Arm Camera Sees > Possible Ice > Jet Propulsion Laboratory > May 30, 2008 > > TUCSON, Ariz.-- Scientists have discovered what may > be ice that was > exposed when soil was blown away as NASA's Phoenix > spacecraft landed on > Mars last Sunday, May 25. The possible ice appears > in an image the > robotic arm camera took underneath the lander, near > a footpad. > > "We could very well be seeing rock, or we could be > seeing exposed ice in > the retrorocket blast zone," said Ray Arvidson of > Washington University, > St. Louis, Mo., co-investigator for the robotic arm. > "We'll test the two > ideas by getting more data, including color data, > from the robotic arm > camera. We think that if the hard features are ice, > they will become > brighter because atmospheric water vapor will > collect as new frost on > the ice. > > "Full confirmation of what we're seeing will come > when we excavate and > analyze layers in the nearby workspace," Arvidson > said. > > Testing last night of a Phoenix instrument that > bakes and sniffs samples > to identify ingredients identified a possible short > circuit. This > prompted commands for diagnostic steps to be > developed and sent to the > lander in the next few days. The instrument is the > Thermal and Evolved > Gas Analyzer. It includes a calorimeter that tracks > how much heat is > needed to melt or vaporize substances in a sample, > plus a mass > spectrometer to examine vapors driven off by the > heat. The Thursday, May > 29, tests recorded electrical behavior consistent > with an intermittent > short circuit in the spectrometer portion. > > "We have developed a strategy to gain a better > understanding of this > behavior, and we have identified workarounds for > some of the > possibilities," said William Boynton of the > University of Arizona, > Tucson, lead scientist for the instrument. > > The latest data from the Canadian Space Agency's > weather station shows > another sunny day at the Phoenix landing site with > temperatures holding > at minus 30 degrees Celsius (minus 22 degrees > Fahrenheit) as the sol's > high, and a low of minus 80 degrees Celsius (minus > 112 degrees > Fahrenheit). The lidar instrument was activated for > a 15-minute period > just before noon local Mars time, and showed > increasing dust in the > atmosphere. > > "This is the first time lidar technology has been > used on the surface of > another planet," said the meteorological station's > chief engineer, Mike > Daly, from MDA in Brampton, Canada. "The team is > elated that we are > getting such interesting data about the dust > dynamics in the atmosphere." > > The mission passed a "safe to proceed" review on > Thursday evening, > meeting criteria to proceed with evaluating and > using the science > instruments. > > "We have evaluated the performance of the spacecraft > on the surface and > found we're ready to move forward. While we are > still investigating > instrument performance such as the anomaly on TEGA > [Thermal and Evolved > Gas Analyzer], the spacecraft's infrastructure has > passed its tests and > gets a clean bill of health," said David Spencer of > NASA's Jet > Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif., deputy > project manager for > Phoenix. > > "We're still in the process of checking out our > instruments," Phoenix > project scientist Leslie Tamppari of JPL said. "The > process is designed > to be very flexible, to respond to discoveries and > issues that come up > every day. We're in the process of taking images and > getting color > information that will help us understand soil > properties. This will help > us understand where best to first touch the soil and > then where and how > best to dig." > > The Phoenix mission is led by Peter Smith at the > University of Arizona > with project management at JPL and development > partnership at Lockheed > Martin, Denver. International contributions come > from the Canadian Space > Agency; the University of Neuchatel, Switzerland; > the universities of > Copenhagen and Aarhus, Denmark; Max Planck > Institute, Germany; and the > Finnish Meteorological Institute. For more about > Phoenix, visit: > http://www.nasa.gov/phoenix and > http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Media contacts: Guy Webster 818-354-5011 > Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. > guy.webster at jpl.nasa.gov > > Dwayne Brown 202-358-1726 > NASA Headquarters, Washington > dwayne.c.brown at nasa.gov > > Sara Hammond 520-626-1974 > University of Arizona, Tucson > shammond at lpl.arizona.edu > > 2008-090 > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From epgrondine at yahoo.com Mon Jun 2 00:33:10 2008 From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 21:33:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] unnoticed Message-ID: <231770.89070.qm@web36904.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi all - Well, if you're waiting for a NASA press release, you might as well forget it. When told by the Congress, that is to say Republicans and Democrats, Senators and Representatives in both Houses to come up with a plan and execute it to find c**p from space before it hits and kills a lot of people, the current NASA Administrator told them that he didn't want to do the job. The Administrator has also put into development a manned vehicle dependent on one launch vehicle, which launch vehicle by the way is not working. Amazingly, the Adminstrator has not had his ass fired and handed to him, which is surely a sign of how much money Thiokol is making with the war in Iraq right now. Great job, Mickey. And BTW, s**w you too, Dave. $100 billion to fly a few men to Mars? I don't think so. (Please note that I did not say "Jesus!", "Christ!" or "Jesus Christ!" once in that message.) good hunting, E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Mon Jun 2 00:52:20 2008 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 21:52:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] unnoticed In-Reply-To: <231770.89070.qm@web36904.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <570032.48329.qm@web33104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Who the hell are you talking about? This post is offensive to me, because I cant figure out who you are bitching about. Clarify please, there are a lot of mike's and Dave's on this list. Michael Farmer --- "E.P. Grondine" wrote: > Hi all - > > Well, if you're waiting for a NASA press release, > you > might as well forget it. > > When told by the Congress, that is to say > Republicans > and Democrats, Senators and Representatives in both > Houses to come up with a plan and execute it to find > c**p from space before it hits and kills a lot of > people, the current NASA Administrator told them > that > he didn't want to do the job. > > The Administrator has also put into development a > manned vehicle dependent on one launch vehicle, > which > launch vehicle by the way is not working. > > Amazingly, the Adminstrator has not had his ass > fired > and handed to him, which is surely a sign of how > much > money Thiokol is making with the war in Iraq right > now. > > Great job, Mickey. And BTW, s**w you too, Dave. > $100 > billion to fly a few men to Mars? I don't think so. > > (Please note that I did not say "Jesus!", "Christ!" > or > "Jesus Christ!" once in that message.) > > good hunting, > E.P. Grondine > Man and Impact in the Americas > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Mon Jun 2 06:36:48 2008 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 06:36:48 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 2, 2008 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/June_2_2008.html ___________________ **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) From star-bits at tx.rr.com Mon Jun 2 11:51:40 2008 From: star-bits at tx.rr.com (star-bits at tx.rr.com) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 11:51:40 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad - eBay auctions closing shortly Message-ID: <1928069.743911212421900181.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web18-z02> Greetings all I have a number of auctions closing shortly including 2 martian individuals currently both less than $100/gm one less than $33/gm Dhofar 010 impact melt Dhofar 1432 CR Carancas currently 1/2 the cost of the membrane box it comes in. Bassikounou Oum Dreyga individual Oum Rokba endcut currently less than 15 cents per gram Polymict diogenite for less than $4/gm less than 15% of what it typically lists for. millbillillie slice, oriented sikhote-alin, covert, Tagish Lake and others. See them all at -- Eric Olson 7682 Firethorn Dr Fayetteville, NC 28311 http://www.star-bits.com From cynapse at charter.net Mon Jun 2 12:30:54 2008 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 12:30:54 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Old(er) meteorite references In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I've been spending a lot of time lately digging through Google's extensive collection of digitized books-- downloading close to 3 GB of PDFs in the last two nights. These were subjects unrelated to meteorites so it was a bit of a suprise that the first random page of the first random PDF I opened from the collection had a chapter heading that mentioned meteorites. Here are what I think are the only relevant pages-- the text is nearly incomprehensible. http://webpages.charter.net/garrison6328/temp/ and the whole book, for anyone interested: http://books.google.com/books?id=HRsXAAAAYAAJ&dq=night+of+the+gods&source=gbs_summary_s&cad=0 From MeteorHntr at aol.com Mon Jun 2 14:43:46 2008 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 14:43:46 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Fukang at Bonhams Message-ID: Has anyone heard if the Large Fukang ended up selling after the auction at Bonhams in April? Steve Arnold #1 **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) From cynapse at charter.net Mon Jun 2 16:25:16 2008 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 16:25:16 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Launched pad In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: http://spaceflightnow.com/shuttle/sts124/080601pad/ From bristolia at yahoo.com Mon Jun 2 16:41:57 2008 From: bristolia at yahoo.com (Paul) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 13:41:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] "GSA Today" Comments and Reply Published on Firestone's and Abott's Research Message-ID: <371346.96741.qm@web36205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> 1. The Original Paper by Printer and Ishman Pinter, N., and S. E. Ishman, 2008,Impacts, mega-tsunami, and other extraordinary claims. GSA Today. vol. 18, no. 1 pp. 37?38 Web page - http://www.gsajournals.org/perlserv/?request=get-document&doi=10.1130%2FGSAT01801GW.1 PDF File - http://www.gsajournals.org/archive/1052-5173/18/1/pdf/i1052-5173-18-1-37.pdf 2. Bunch's and Others? Comments Bunch, T. P., J. Kennett, and D. K. Kennett, 2008, Comment: Impacts, mega-tsunami, and other extraordinary claims. GSA Today. vol. 18, no. 6 p. 11 Web Page - http://www.gsajournals.org/perlserv/?request=get-document&doi=10.1130%2FGSATG10C.1 PDF File - http://www.gsajournals.org/archive/1052-5173/18/6/pdf/i1052-5173-18-6-11.pdf Bunch et al.'s SUPPLEMENTARY CALCULATIONS AND INFORMATION: Web Page - http://ie.lbl.gov/mammoth/GSAToday.html 3. Firestone's and Others? Comments Firestone, R. B., and A. West, 2008, Impacts, mega-tsunami, and other extraordinary claims: COMMENT. GSA Today Online. April 2008, DOI: 10.1130/GSATG11C.1, p. e13 Web Page - http://www.gsajournals.org/perlserv/?request=get-static&name=i1052-5173-18-6-e13 PDF File - http://www.gsajournals.org/pdf/online_forum/i1052-5173-18-6-e13.pdf 4. Abbott's and Others? Comments Abbott, D. H., E. F. Bryant, V. Gusiakov, W. B. Masse, and D. Breger, 2008, Impacts, mega-tsunami, and other extraordinary claims: COMMENT. Published Online: April 2008, DOI: 10.1130/GSATG9C.1, p. e12 Web Page - http://www.gsajournals.org/perlserv/?request=get-static&name=i1052-5173-18-6-e12 PDF File - http://www.gsajournals.org/pdf/online_forum/i1052-5173-18-6-e12.pdf 5. Printer's and Ishman?s Reply to the Above Comments Pinter, N., and S. E. Ishman, 2008, Impacts, mega-tsunami, and other extraordinary claims: REPLY: GSA Today online, June 2008, DOI: 10.1130/GSATG13Y.1 Web Page - http://www.gsajournals.org/perlserv/?request=get-static&name=i1052-5173-18-6-e14 PDF file - http://www.gsajournals.org/pdf/online_forum/i1052-5173-18-6-e14.pdf SUPPLEMENTARY CALCULATIONS AND INFORMATION, Pinter, N., and S.E. Ishman, 2008. Reply to comments on ?Impacts, megatsunami, and other extraordinary claims.? GSA Today, vol. 18. PDF file - http://www.geology.siu.edu/GSATSupplement.pdf 6. GSA Today: Comments and Replies web page - http://www.gsajournals.org/perlserv/?request=get-static&name=i1052-5173-14-3 An interesting paper is: Reimold W.U. 2007. The impact crater bandwagon. Meteoritics & Planetary Science. v.42. p 1467?1472. Yours, Paul H. From almitt at kconline.com Mon Jun 2 18:44:27 2008 From: almitt at kconline.com (AL Mitterling) Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 18:44:27 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Just Another Question Message-ID: <484477CB.50903@kconline.com> Hi Pete and all, Reading the last paragraph of your statement lead me to believe you were inferring that an astronaut was throwing a rock out of orbit. My mistake. --AL Mitterling Pete Shugar wrote: > I never said he was throwing the object. What I said was "impart > excape velocity" to the object. This can be from a number of ways, > such as an attached rocket, for example. > Pete > Pete Shugar also wrote: but non man made material shouldn't be penalized because an astronaught decided to impart excape velosity to a rock From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Mon Jun 2 20:23:03 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 17:23:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Camera on Arm Looks Beneath Phoenix Lander Message-ID: <200806030023.RAA16744@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=release=2008-090b Camera on Arm Looks Beneath NASA Mars Lander Jet Propulsion Laboratory May 31, 2008 A view of the ground underneath NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander adds to evidence that descent thrusters dispersed overlying soil and exposed a harder substrate that may be ice. The image received Friday night from the spacecraft's Robotic Arm Camera shows patches of smooth and level surfaces beneath the thrusters. "This suggests we have an ice table under a thin layer of loose soil," said the lead scientist for the Robotic Arm Camera, Horst Uwe Keller of Max Planck Institute for Solar System Research, Katlenburg-Lindau, Germany. "We were expecting to find ice within two to six inches of the surface," said Peter Smith of the University of Arizona, Tucson, principal investigator for Phoenix. "The thrusters have excavated two to six inches and, sure enough, we see something that looks like ice. It's not impossible that it's something else, but our leading interpretation is ice." The Phoenix mission is led by Smith at the University of Arizona with project management by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif., and development partnership at Lockheed Martin, Denver. International contributions come from the Canadian Space Agency; the University of Neuchatel, Switzerland; the universities of Copenhagen and Aarhus, Denmark; Max Planck Institute, Germany; and the Finnish Meteorological Institute. For more about Phoenix, visit: http://www.nasa.gov/phoenix and http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu. From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Mon Jun 2 20:25:27 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 17:25:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA's Phoenix Lander Makes an Impression on Mars Message-ID: <200806030025.RAA17920@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/phoenix/release.php?ArticleID=1726 NASA's Phoenix Lander Makes an Impression on Mars Jet Propulsion Laboratory June 01, 2008 NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander reached out and touched the Martian soil for the first time on Saturday, May 31, the first step in a series of actions expected to bring soil and ice to the lander's experiments. The lander's Robotic Arm scoop left an impression that resembles a footprint at a place provisionally named Yeti in the King of Hearts target zone, away from the area that eventually will be sampled for evaluation. The impression in the soil was captured by Phoenix's Stereo Surface Imager. Features and locations around the Phoenix lander are being named for fairy tale and mythological characters. "This first touch allows us to utilize the Robotic Arm accurately. We are in a good situation for the upcoming sample acquisition and transfer," said David Spencer, Phoenix's surface mission manager from NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif. Phoenix's Robotic Arm Camera also took a number of images of the "Snow Queen" site of what is believed to be exposed ice under the lander. "What we see in the images is in agreement with the notion that it may be ice, and we suspect we will see the same thing in the digging area," said Uwe Keller, Robotic Arm Camera lead scientist from the Max Planck Institute for Solar System Research, Katlenburg-Lindau, Germany From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Mon Jun 2 20:27:56 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 17:27:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA's Phoenix Scoops Up Martian Soil Message-ID: <200806030027.RAA19087@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=release=2008-091a NASA's Phoenix Scoops Up Martian Soil Jet Propulsion Laboratory June 02, 2008 One week after landing on far-northern Mars, NASA Phoenix spacecraft lifted its first scoop of Martian soil as a test of the lander's Robotic Arm. The practice scoop was emptied onto a designated dump area on the ground after the Robotic Arm Camera photographed the soil inside the scoop. The Phoenix team plans to have the arm deliver its next scoopful, later this week, to an instrument that heats and sniffs the sample to identify ingredients. A glint of bright material appears in the scooped up soil and in the hole from which it came. "That bright material might be ice or salt. We're eager to do testing of the next three surface samples collected nearby to learn more about it," said Ray Arvidson of Washington University in St. Louis, Phoenix co-investigator for the Robotic Arm. The camera on the arm examined the lander's first scoop of Martian soil. "The camera has its own red, green and blue lights, and we combine separate images taken with different illumination to create color images," said the University of Arizona's Pat Woida, senior engineer on the Phoenix team. The Phoenix mission is led by Peter Smith at the University of Arizona with project management by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif., and development partnership at Lockheed Martin, Denver. International contributions come from the Canadian Space Agency; the University of Neuchatel, Switzerland; the universities of Copenhagen and Aarhus, Denmark; Max Planck Institute, Germany; and the Finnish Meteorological Institute. For more about Phoenix, visit: http://www.nasa.gov/phoenix and http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Media contacts: Guy Webster 818-354-5011 Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. guy.webster at jpl.nasa.gov From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Mon Jun 2 20:30:30 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 17:30:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars Exploration Rover Update: May 22-29, 2008 Message-ID: <200806030030.RAA20316@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/mission/status.html SPIRIT UPDATE: Energy Levels Reach Record Low - sol 1559-1566, May 22-29, 2008: Energy production reached a record low for Spirit this past week. On Sol 1560 (May 23, 2008), solar array input was 220 watt-hours (enough energy to light a 100-watt bulb for two hours and 12 minutes). On sol 1563, Spirit expended the highest amount of energy yet on running heaters to maintain minimum temperatures for batteries (30.6 watt-hours) and the miniature thermal emission spectrometer (54.0 watt-hours). Activity levels on Spirit have been kept low this week to compensate for the reduced energy production. As was the case last week, Spirit had insufficient energy to transmit data to Earth each day. As a result, the operations team selected which Martian days, or sols, would be used for data downlinks to Earth. Uplinks of communications from Earth have also been curtailed. Spirit typically has a daily communications window when the rover wakes up and points its High-Gain Antenna toward Earth and listens for new commands. By passing up on some of these uplink opportunities, the rover is able to stay awake for shorter periods of time each sol. Rover operators still have the ability to send new commands if necessary. Despite low energy levels, Spirit continues to be in good health. The rover continues to conduct atmospheric observations, especially measurements of atmospheric opacity. As explained in last week's report, these Tau measurements of the amount of dust in the atmosphere provide valuable data for science and operations planning because they affect the amount of solar energy that reaches the rover's solar panels. All subsystems are performing as expected. Sol-by-sol summary: In addition to receiving direct-from-Earth instructions over the rover's high-gain antenna, Spirit completed the following activities: Sol 1559 (May 22, 2008): Spirit received new commands from Earth, measured atmospheric opacity caused by dust (Tau) with the panoramic camera and sent data to NASA's Odyssey orbiter to be relayed to Earth. Sol 1560: Spirit again measured atmospheric dust with the panoramic camera and recharged the batteries. Sol 1561: Spirit received new commands from Earth. The rover measured atmospheric darkness caused by dust with the panoramic camera. Sol 1562: Spirit recharged the batteries. Sol 1563: Spirit measured atmospheric dust with the panoramic camera and transmitted data to Odyssey. Sol 1564: Spirit received new commands from Earth. Sol 1565: Spirit recharged the batteries. Sol 1566 (May 29, 2008): Spirit measured atmospheric opacity caused by dust with the panoramic camera and sent data to Odyssey to be relayed to Earth. Odometry: As of sol 1566 (May 29, 2008), Spirit's total odometry remained at 7,528.0 meters (4.7 miles). From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com Mon Jun 2 21:08:20 2008 From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 18:08:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] ziz (NWA 854) Message-ID: <376429.90498.qm@web57802.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Good evening list.I know it has been along time since the ZIZ iron has been talked about.I just received my 47.7 gram individual today.It is amazing that it looks so much like sikote-alin.But the decisive difference I notice is that is a little brown in color vs. the blackness of the sa's.What is the difference between the IAB CLASS VS. THE IIAB CLASS?Also my piece has some lipping on 1 side also with some nice flowlines as well as some orientation.Is it uncommon to have flowlines on desert irons?Ilike the ZIZ name better than NWA 854.Any comments?? Steve R.Arnold,chicago,Ill,Usa!! ???? The Asteroid Belt! ??? http://chicagometeorites.net/ ??? Collecting Meteorites since 06/19/1999 ??? Ebay I.D. Illinoismeteorites From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Mon Jun 2 21:12:19 2008 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 18:12:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] ziz (NWA 854) In-Reply-To: <376429.90498.qm@web57802.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <139610.77440.qm@web33103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Steve, buy a book, that is a start. Flow lines are on any meteorite that has them and where they have no weathered away. Desert or not makes no difference. That is a common-sense issue. Michael Farmer --- On Mon, 6/2/08, steve arnold wrote: > From: steve arnold > Subject: [meteorite-list] ziz (NWA 854) > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Monday, June 2, 2008, 7:08 PM > Good evening list.I know it has been along time since the > ZIZ iron has been talked about.I just received my 47.7 gram > individual today.It is amazing that it looks so much like > sikote-alin.But the decisive difference I notice is that is > a little brown in color vs. the blackness of the > sa's.What is the difference between the IAB CLASS VS. > THE IIAB CLASS?Also my piece has some lipping on 1 side > also with some nice flowlines as well as some > orientation.Is it uncommon to have flowlines on desert > irons?Ilike the ZIZ name better than NWA 854.Any comments?? > > Steve R.Arnold,chicago,Ill,Usa!! ???? The Asteroid > Belt! ??? http://chicagometeorites.net/ ??? > Collecting Meteorites since 06/19/1999 ??? Ebay I.D. > Illinoismeteorites > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoritefinder at gmail.com Mon Jun 2 22:43:42 2008 From: meteoritefinder at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 19:43:42 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Web site update- --- sales page update --- collection update --- AD Message-ID: <468bf6050806021943x6c67f58akb23cb4e7903b08c2@mail.gmail.com> Hi All I have been changing and adding items as fast as I could. A few of the high lights are a new look on the home page, some new text about the site. You can see it here http://www.meteoritefinder.com/index.htm Some new items on the sale page. Very nice Seymchan Pallasites. You can see them here http://www.meteoritefinder.com/seymchan.htm Some new additions to the collection http://www.meteoritefinder.com/whats-new-collect.htm There is more new stuff here but these are the high lights, if you are looking around and notice problems with a link or something I need to learn to spell. Please let me know -- Mike Miller 230 Greenway Dr. Kingman Az 86401 www.meteoritefinder.com 928-753-6825 From info at mcomemeteorite.it Tue Jun 3 00:12:02 2008 From: info at mcomemeteorite.it (M come Meteorite Meteorites) Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2008 06:12:02 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Seymchan Speculation Message-ID: <4844c492.357.68f4.698179197@webmaildh3.aruba.it> I have every time say the all important Auction's type Sotheby's, Christie's etc.... they speculate on the prices, and here we have a clear example with Heritage Auctions and Seymchan slices, here a type http://cgi.liveauctions.ebay.com/38255-SEYMCHAN-ENORMOUS-SLICE_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ28295QQihZ007QQitemZ170220845205QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW $40,000 start price for a piece time ago the Russian ask for a similar slice $2500-3000. For not speack of the estimate price of US $80,000.00 - US $100,000.00...this is a right idea why is good not buy items from biggest Auctions, the same is with Art paints, old photography etc.... Matteo From MeteorHntr at aol.com Tue Jun 3 02:57:19 2008 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 02:57:19 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Monahans 1998 & New Batch of "Reverse Auction" items up on Ebay Message-ID: Hello All, My first batch of meteorites in my "First Steve Arnold's Famous Ebay Discount Marathon" mostly sold out on Ebay a few weeks ago, and so I have decided to do it again. But this time I am going to do it with more of an assortment of smaller priced items, so more people can participate. I will be adding more items over the next few days and will be trying to drop the prices by 10% every 24 hours or so. Again, I get a whopping 75% discount on the seller fees if you go to Ebay and buy from this link here: http://stores.ebay.com/Steve-Arnold-Meteorites?refid=store Please book mark the above URL, then go there to look. If you get to my page via first going to another Ebay page, I DO NOT get the discount. At up to 12% selling fees, that can be substantial. Keeping this affordable (even though time consuming on my end) will help me to keep doing this more in the future. Thanks for all the support on the first "Discount Marathon" last month, and best of luck this time around. I will also be adding some items on the normal ebay auctions, so keep an eye open for those. I also found my lost stash of Monahans 1998 crumbs the other day. I don't have many, but I have made some photo copies of the cover of the People Magazine that ran the story and the inside story with the autographs of all the "Monahans 7" on the photo. PHOTO: http://members.aol.com/meteorhntr/people2.jpg I have decided to sell a limited number of those each with a Monahans 1998 crumb. It is hard to believe that it was 10 years ago this next Sunday when the Monahans City Council decided to give the boys their rock back. I had the joy of working with the families to help them get the meteorite wrestled back from the city and then to broker the sale for them. I still laugh when I remember the one City Councilman angrily calling me a "used rock salesman" from his elevated perch at the Council meeting. I thought about putting that title on a business card, but figured no one would get the joke. Part of my deal with the kids was to get a few grams of material, most all of which I sold out of shortly after the sale of the main mass. I have a small number of crumbs from 2mg up to 6mg in size. I consider these pieces historical type specimens, that should not really to be priced by the size or the weight. Michael Blood bought up most of the other left over ones I had in the past, and I am not sure if he is sold out of them yet. Other than that, I am not sure one can find them anywhere else. I don't have a microscope, so some of these might have the famous purple salt crystals still on them. If so, then there is a chance there is some of the ultra rare extraterrestrial water still trapped in them. The first buyers will get the biggest crumbs available on a first come first served basis Price: $39 each. Paypal works. If you want to send me a check, let me know so I can hold the biggest crumb back for you. Thanks, Steve Arnold #1 "Used Rock Salesman" Arkansas **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002) From mark.ford at ssl.gb.com Tue Jun 3 06:19:06 2008 From: mark.ford at ssl.gb.com (Mark Ford) Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 11:19:06 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA's Phoenix Scoops Up Martian Soil In-Reply-To: <200806030027.RAA19087@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> References: <200806030027.RAA19087@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <29A9DB45B84970458190D7D39BD42C492C29FC@gamma.ssl.atw> Is it me or are the Phoenix Mars lander team [really] taking their time with this mars mission!?? A week in and they still haven't sampled the soil yet! Now clearly they know what they are doing and I don't, but given its -80 C millions of miles away and a really, really hostile environment.. if it where me, id not be taking any chances on time - things can go belly up awfully quickly out there! I sensed some frustration on this, listening to the Nasa press conference yesterday, between the engineers and the science team, so I just hope it continues to work, it could be awfully embarrassing if it packed up after a week and they had next to no science data! Best Mark F. CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us. Email info at ssl.gb.com. You should not copy or use this email or attachment(s) for any purpose nor disclose their contents to any other person. GENERAL STATEMENT: Southern Scientific Ltd's computer systems may be monitored and communications carried on them recorded, to secure the effective operation of the system and for other lawful purposes. Registered address Rectory Farm Rd, Sompting, Lancing, W Sussex BN15 0DP. Company No 1800317 From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Tue Jun 3 07:28:12 2008 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 07:28:12 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 3, 2008 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/June_3_2008.html **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002) From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Tue Jun 3 11:15:31 2008 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 08:15:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad: One cent auction ending tonight, more than 50 items. Message-ID: <127317.11950.qm@web33101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Check out these spectacular pieces ending on ebay ending tonight, some nice goodies, many still at or near one cent! Somce examples include these nice pieces, but be sure to see everything. There are more than 50 auctions, the links below are just a taste. See them all and pick up some great deals. Beautiful piece of Brenham Pallasite, 263 grams, translucent olivines!http://cgi.ebay.com/_W0QQitemZ180247468531 500 grams of broken Libyan Desert Glass pieces, great for dealers! http://cgi.ebay.com/_W0QQitemZ350064585690 499 gram Toluca individual. http://cgi.ebay.com/_W0QQitemZ350064592888 See all available items at the links below, there are way too many to list here. http://members.ebay.com/ws2/eBayISAPI.dll? viewUserPage&userid=meteoritehunters http://members.ebay.com/ws2/eBayISAPI.dll? ViewUserPage&userid=meteorite-hunter Thanks Mike Farmer ______________________________________________ From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Tue Jun 3 11:23:18 2008 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 08:23:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] EBAY $20.00 coupon for $100 purchase Message-ID: <419680.18674.qm@web33101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> CVJUNE20D If you buy anything on ebay for $100.00 or more, you can use this coupon when you pay via paypal and get $20.00 off the purchase. It must be used by 20 June. I just used it minutes ago to pay for a Seymchan piece I bought last night, it is a discount sent to me by ebay. When you check out, just put in the coupon code above, and it will discount $20.00, you will see that on the total. The seller gets the full payment, you save $20.00. By all means, bid on my stuff tonight and use that coupon. Michael Farmer From Gibeon at aol.com Tue Jun 3 12:59:51 2008 From: Gibeon at aol.com (Gibeon at aol.com) Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 12:59:51 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Test Message-ID: Test Test Test please delete From cynapse at charter.net Tue Jun 3 16:24:12 2008 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2008 16:24:12 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] EBAY $20.00 coupon for $100 purchase In-Reply-To: <419680.18674.qm@web33101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <419680.18674.qm@web33101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Jun 2008 08:23:18 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: >CVJUNE20D > > >If you buy anything on ebay for $100.00 or more, you can use this coupon when you pay via paypal and get $20.00 off the purchase. It must be used by 20 June. I just used it minutes ago to pay for a Seymchan piece I bought last night, it is a discount sent to me by ebay. When you check out, just put in the coupon code above, and it will discount $20.00, you will see that on the total. >The seller gets the full payment, you save $20.00. >By all means, bid on my stuff tonight and use that coupon. Any chance that it would work for several items from the same seller that added up to $100? Here's one good for $10 off, up to $100, expires in a couple of days: C2MAY0810P From cynapse at charter.net Tue Jun 3 16:29:40 2008 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2008 16:29:40 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] EBAY $20.00 coupon for $100 purchase In-Reply-To: References: <419680.18674.qm@web33101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 03 Jun 2008 16:24:12 -0400, you wrote: >Here's one good for $10 off, up to $100, expires in a couple of days: > >C2MAY0810P I meant 10% off. From Metorman46 at aol.com Tue Jun 3 17:45:15 2008 From: Metorman46 at aol.com (Metorman46 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 17:45:15 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] ziz (NWA 854) Message-ID: Hello Steve; You asked what is the difference between IAB AND IIAB IRON METEORITES.From the reading i have done over the eons about iron meteorites my understanding is this; IAB is,of course,a coarse octahedrite with a band with of from 1.3 mm to 3.3 mm,a IIAB is a hexahedrite with a band with of 3.3 mm to 50 mm.The cooling time of a coarse octahedrite is less than the cooling time for a hexahedrite which allows for larger crystals to develop in a hexahedrite which allows a larger band with to form ( widmanstatten pattern ). If you want to really get into studying iron meteorites go to a library and borrow V.F. BUCHWALDS-HANDBOOK OF IRON METEORITES-There is no better reference and study guide on earth concerning iron meteorites.They are also for sale sometimes on the internet. Iron meteorites are very exciting,i think,and i am glad you think so too. Hope this helps Best Regards;Herman Archer IMCA # 2770 **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002) From ensoramanda at ntlworld.com Tue Jun 3 19:43:54 2008 From: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com (ensoramanda) Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2008 00:43:54 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Stephen Hawking meteorite print presentation photos Message-ID: <4845D73A.90800@ntlworld.com> Hi All, For those who wish to have a look, here is a link to the photographs released by the University of the Stephen Hawking visit and pictures of me presenting the Seymchan print. I am not sure about copyright on these, so please ask me if you wish to use any of them and I will check if its ok. http://www.flickr.com/gp/21448781 at N02/f02Gg0 Regards Graham Ensor. Hope the link works! From francisgraham at rocketmail.com Tue Jun 3 22:35:45 2008 From: francisgraham at rocketmail.com (Francis Graham) Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 19:35:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Phoenix Lander Message-ID: <556478.57081.qm@web59006.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Dear List Mark Ford has a point. In the Apollo Lunar Missions, right away as soon as they emerged from the LM, the astronauts obtained a basket of moon rocks and sent it up to the LM. The reasoning was, if something went amiss, and they had to leave the lunar surface soon after landing, they would not return empty-handed. This was called a "contingency sample". The argument also applies to unmanned missions. Phoenix might have had a provision for an immediate contingency analysis designed in to its program, but, at risk of peril, did not, and waited a week. Nonetheless it is a good idea to do contingency sampling. It might be also a good idea for a future Mars sample return mission to obtain an immediate contingency sample. If things go wrong, and the scoop arm later malfunctions while picking around for interesting stuff, or some such, at least they can blast the hurried small contingency sample off Mars and back to Earth. One can apply this also to astronomy. One might collect what data one can, even low grade, right away, in case it clouds up. Then do careful instrument tweaking if clouds stay away. In meteorite collecting, one can grab a few random samples around the crater ejecta and then, if the situation remains pleasant, seek out better samples elsewhere. Seems like a smart idea. There is a host of practical problems to which this idea can be applied, where time=increased chance of difficulties. Francis Graham From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Tue Jun 3 23:30:21 2008 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 22:30:21 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Phoenix Lander References: <556478.57081.qm@web59006.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <004401c8c5f3$522e7400$792be146@ATARIENGINE> Hi, I note that all your examples involve return and the possibility of a rapid exit. We want a robot to last and to perform for as long as possible; it can't dash home and we wouldn't want it to. Operating a robot by telepresence over a long light-time delay is chancy. Phoenix has already had "problems" with radio transmission and various other minor glitches. I recommend reading the following piece about the way the command structure of the Phoenix "robot" works: http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/blogsPost.php?bID=202 As you can see, it's not like pushing a big button on the Robot Control Panel. Things are done by writing blocks of VML2 code to accomplish a specific task, testing them, sending them, etc. As the SSI Co-Investigator says, "Frankly, any day with a tomorrow is a good day on Mars." Remember, this is a remake mounted on an unused backup spacecraft, a hybrid, a kludge, an Apple running Windows which is emulating Unix (not literally, but you get the idea). You know how much data the Phoenix can hold overnight (if it needs to)? Yes, friends -- 14 Megabytes. How big is the flash card in your digital camera? I think it's doing a wonderful job. Go slow. Test every foothold before you put your weight on it. Look before you leap. Small steps, small steps... Sterling K. Webb --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Francis Graham" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 9:35 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Phoenix Lander Dear List Mark Ford has a point. In the Apollo Lunar Missions, right away as soon as they emerged from the LM, the astronauts obtained a basket of moon rocks and sent it up to the LM. The reasoning was, if something went amiss, and they had to leave the lunar surface soon after landing, they would not return empty-handed. This was called a "contingency sample". The argument also applies to unmanned missions. Phoenix might have had a provision for an immediate contingency analysis designed in to its program, but, at risk of peril, did not, and waited a week. Nonetheless it is a good idea to do contingency sampling. It might be also a good idea for a future Mars sample return mission to obtain an immediate contingency sample. If things go wrong, and the scoop arm later malfunctions while picking around for interesting stuff, or some such, at least they can blast the hurried small contingency sample off Mars and back to Earth. One can apply this also to astronomy. One might collect what data one can, even low grade, right away, in case it clouds up. Then do careful instrument tweaking if clouds stay away. In meteorite collecting, one can grab a few random samples around the crater ejecta and then, if the situation remains pleasant, seek out better samples elsewhere. Seems like a smart idea. There is a host of practical problems to which this idea can be applied, where time=increased chance of difficulties. Francis Graham ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Wed Jun 4 03:47:07 2008 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 02:47:07 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Phoenix Lander References: <556478.57081.qm@web59006.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000a01c8c617$30f74cc0$2a22e146@ATARIENGINE> Hi, Reinforcing the previous point: http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/080603-phoenix-update.html Sterling K. Webb --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Francis Graham" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 9:35 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Phoenix Lander Dear List Mark Ford has a point. In the Apollo Lunar Missions, right away as soon as they emerged from the LM, the astronauts obtained a basket of moon rocks and sent it up to the LM. The reasoning was, if something went amiss, and they had to leave the lunar surface soon after landing, they would not return empty-handed. This was called a "contingency sample". The argument also applies to unmanned missions. Phoenix might have had a provision for an immediate contingency analysis designed in to its program, but, at risk of peril, did not, and waited a week. Nonetheless it is a good idea to do contingency sampling. It might be also a good idea for a future Mars sample return mission to obtain an immediate contingency sample. If things go wrong, and the scoop arm later malfunctions while picking around for interesting stuff, or some such, at least they can blast the hurried small contingency sample off Mars and back to Earth. One can apply this also to astronomy. One might collect what data one can, even low grade, right away, in case it clouds up. Then do careful instrument tweaking if clouds stay away. In meteorite collecting, one can grab a few random samples around the crater ejecta and then, if the situation remains pleasant, seek out better samples elsewhere. Seems like a smart idea. There is a host of practical problems to which this idea can be applied, where time=increased chance of difficulties. Francis Graham ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mark.ford at ssl.gb.com Wed Jun 4 06:15:33 2008 From: mark.ford at ssl.gb.com (Mark Ford) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 11:15:33 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Phoenix Lander In-Reply-To: <004401c8c5f3$522e7400$792be146@ATARIENGINE> References: <556478.57081.qm@web59006.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <004401c8c5f3$522e7400$792be146@ATARIENGINE> Message-ID: <29A9DB45B84970458190D7D39BD42C492C2A41@gamma.ssl.atw> Hi Sterling et al., Naturally you have a valid point, and they must have their reasons, but surely, figuring out how to use the arm on Mars should surely all have been done on Earth sims many many times already? - as for having to write blocks of code and test it to make it move (Christ almighty, life really doesn't have to be that difficult y'know!), yes naturally there are the mars variables to worry about and the odd glitch etc, but just seems strange that they are this far in with relatively little to show (so far) that's all. But yes, hopefully I guess the diligence will pay off.. >>Remember, this is a remake mounted on an unused backup >>spacecraft, a hybrid, a kludge, an Apple running Windows which >>is emulating Unix (not literally, but you get the idea). You know >>how much data the Phoenix can hold overnight (if it needs to)? >>Yes, friends -- 14 Megabytes Yes but it is hardly a cobble together from radio shack we are talking fully tested custom made, top quality space hardware here! And it runs a pretty good Linux O/S deriv. I recall, which has no doubt even been tested too. (Programmer gag - I can understand if it is a Linux type OS they would need to rewrite a quick 'Mars driver', coz the one they have doesn't quite work...) 14 meg?! Actually that's massive considering most engineering data only needs to be simple binary text, you should see what the early stuff had to work with !! I did chuckle however when they announced the fact that the soil is sticking to the digger/scoop much more than they thought it would, - errm what exactly where they expecting in the martian high arctic during summer ? a nice dry sand that slides off the scoop like a dream?? Does anyone actually remember the moon? Lol. - I jest of course Mark -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Sterling K. Webb Sent: 04 June 2008 04:30 To: francisgraham at rocketmail.com; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Phoenix Lander Hi, I note that all your examples involve return and the possibility of a rapid exit. We want a robot to last and to perform for as long as possible; it can't dash home and we wouldn't want it to. Operating a robot by telepresence over a long light-time delay is chancy. Phoenix has already had "problems" with radio transmission and various other minor glitches. I recommend reading the following piece about the way the command structure of the Phoenix "robot" works: http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/blogsPost.php?bID=202 As you can see, it's not like pushing a big button on the Robot Control Panel. Things are done by writing blocks of VML2 code to accomplish a specific task, testing them, sending them, etc. As the SSI Co-Investigator says, "Frankly, any day with a tomorrow is a good day on Mars." Remember, this is a remake mounted on an unused backup spacecraft, a hybrid, a kludge, an Apple running Windows which is emulating Unix (not literally, but you get the idea). You know how much data the Phoenix can hold overnight (if it needs to)? Yes, friends -- 14 Megabytes. How big is the flash card in your digital camera? I think it's doing a wonderful job. Go slow. Test every foothold before you put your weight on it. Look before you leap. Small steps, small steps... Sterling K. Webb ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Francis Graham" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 9:35 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Phoenix Lander Dear List Mark Ford has a point. In the Apollo Lunar Missions, right away as soon as they emerged from the LM, the astronauts obtained a basket of moon rocks and sent it up to the LM. The reasoning was, if something went amiss, and they had to leave the lunar surface soon after landing, they would not return empty-handed. This was called a "contingency sample". The argument also applies to unmanned missions. Phoenix might have had a provision for an immediate contingency analysis designed in to its program, but, at risk of peril, did not, and waited a week. Nonetheless it is a good idea to do contingency sampling. It might be also a good idea for a future Mars sample return mission to obtain an immediate contingency sample. If things go wrong, and the scoop arm later malfunctions while picking around for interesting stuff, or some such, at least they can blast the hurried small contingency sample off Mars and back to Earth. One can apply this also to astronomy. One might collect what data one can, even low grade, right away, in case it clouds up. Then do careful instrument tweaking if clouds stay away. In meteorite collecting, one can grab a few random samples around the crater ejecta and then, if the situation remains pleasant, seek out better samples elsewhere. Seems like a smart idea. There is a host of practical problems to which this idea can be applied, where time=increased chance of difficulties. Francis Graham ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us. Email info at ssl.gb.com. You should not copy or use this email or attachment(s) for any purpose nor disclose their contents to any other person. GENERAL STATEMENT: Southern Scientific Ltd's computer systems may be monitored and communications carried on them recorded, to secure the effective operation of the system and for other lawful purposes. Registered address Rectory Farm Rd, Sompting, Lancing, W Sussex BN15 0DP. Company No 1800317 From michael at spacerocksinc.com Wed Jun 4 07:12:15 2008 From: michael at spacerocksinc.com (Michael Johnson) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 04:12:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 4, 2008 Message-ID: <8196999.32011212577935292.JavaMail.root@mbs6.homesteadmail.com> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/June_4_2008.html ________________ From midwest at meteorman.org Wed Jun 4 10:17:24 2008 From: midwest at meteorman.org (Tim Heitz) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 09:17:24 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] New web site Message-ID: <019801c8c64d$b802c5b0$cdde0c46@TimsLaptop> Hello List, I have a new web site, I'm testing the new format to see if animations are working. Please let me now if its working for you. http://www.meteorman.org/ Thank You, Tim Heitz From wahlperry at aol.com Wed Jun 4 11:08:49 2008 From: wahlperry at aol.com (wahlperry at aol.com) Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2008 11:08:49 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] New web site In-Reply-To: <019801c8c64d$b802c5b0$cdde0c46@TimsLaptop> References: <019801c8c64d$b802c5b0$cdde0c46@TimsLaptop> Message-ID: <8CA946C0629BAF9-688-84C@FWM-D04.sysops.aol.com> Hi Tom, Your new web site looks great! Sonny -----Original Message----- From: Tim Heitz To: "Meteorite List" Sent: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 7:17 am Subject: [meteorite-list] New web site Hello List,? ? I have a new web site, I'm testing the new format to see if animations are working.? ? Please let me now if its working for you. http://www.meteorman.org/? ? ? Thank You,? Tim Heitz ? ______________________________________________? http://www.meteoritecentral.com? Meteorite-list mailing list? Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com? http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list? From moni2555 at hotmail.com Wed Jun 4 11:20:36 2008 From: moni2555 at hotmail.com (Moni Waiblinger) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 08:20:36 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] New web site In-Reply-To: <019801c8c64d$b802c5b0$cdde0c46@TimsLaptop> References: <019801c8c64d$b802c5b0$cdde0c46@TimsLaptop> Message-ID: Hello Tim and good morning All! I love your images of you and these huge meteorites! Your Meteorite Creed: 1. I am powerless over meteorites and it has made my life unmanageable. I am sure most of everyone on this list feels the same. I guess you have seen many changes in the meteorite fields over the last 11 years. What are a few of them? With best regards, Moni _________________________________________________________________ Enjoy 5 GB of free, password-protected online storage. http://www.windowslive.com/skydrive/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_skydrive_062008 From moni2555 at hotmail.com Wed Jun 4 11:32:13 2008 From: moni2555 at hotmail.com (Moni Waiblinger) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 08:32:13 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 4, 2008 In-Reply-To: <8196999.32011212577935292.JavaMail.root@mbs6.homesteadmail.com> References: <8196999.32011212577935292.JavaMail.root@mbs6.homesteadmail.com> Message-ID: Hello again, Hanno can you tell us about your trip there, please? And the location, guess I could look it up. Thanks, Moni > Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 04:12:15 -0700 > From: michael at spacerocksinc.com > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 4, 2008 > > http://www.rocksfromspace.org/June_4_2008.html > _ _________________________________________________________________ Instantly invite friends from Facebook and other social networks to join you on Windows Live? Messenger. https://www.invite2messenger.net/im/?source=TXT_EML_WLH_InviteFriends From darryl at dof3.com Wed Jun 4 12:39:50 2008 From: darryl at dof3.com (Darryl Pitt) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 12:39:50 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] MACOVICH COLL. / HERITAGE NATURAL HISTORY SALE THIS SUNDAY Message-ID: <6F118A2D-B624-4427-803B-C0422E211A3D@dof3.com> Folks: There is a natural history auction this Sunday at Heritage in Dallas that features some pretty terrific meteorites. http://www.macovich.com In particular, check-out the extraterrestrial Michigan.... http://www.macovich.com/lots/lot02.html All best / Darryl From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Wed Jun 4 13:04:38 2008 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 10:04:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Ensisheim 2008! Message-ID: <684695.29610.qm@web33105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi everyone, I will be attending the fantastic Ensisheim meteorite show again this year, and the St Marie aux Mines mineral show the week after. I look forward to a couple of weeks in France and Germany, to escape the heat of Tucson! I will be displaying meteorites with Moritz Karl in Ensisheim, and perhaps some things with Hans in St Marie. I will not bring much, as I am not all that excited to work hard there, I prefer the eating and drinking part in France more than the working part:) If there is anything specific that all of my European customers want me to bring, please let me know now so that I can prepare the material. See you all in France in two weeks. Those of you who have never attended the Ensisheim show, you are really missing out, if at all possible it is a fine trip to make, and not all that expensive in that part of France. With Germany only about a 10 minute drive and Switzerland about 40 minutes, there are endless things to do there. Michael Farmer From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Wed Jun 4 14:51:38 2008 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 20:51:38 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] New web site In-Reply-To: References: <019801c8c64d$b802c5b0$cdde0c46@TimsLaptop> Message-ID: <010401c8c674$05b84ed0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Hi Moni and good evening Tim! >1. I am powerless over meteorites and it has made my life unmanageable. Your so right, Moni! I for instance am sleepless at night, Because there might be one of Tim's Meteorite Pushers under my bed! Martin -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Moni Waiblinger Gesendet: Mittwoch, 4. Juni 2008 17:21 An: Tim Heitz; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] New web site Hello Tim and good morning All! I love your images of you and these huge meteorites! Your Meteorite Creed: 1. I am powerless over meteorites and it has made my life unmanageable. I am sure most of everyone on this list feels the same. I guess you have seen many changes in the meteorite fields over the last 11 years. What are a few of them? With best regards, Moni _________________________________________________________________ Enjoy 5 GB of free, password-protected online storage. http://www.windowslive.com/skydrive/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_ skydrive_062008 ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From Gibeon at aol.com Wed Jun 4 15:00:12 2008 From: Gibeon at aol.com (Gibeon at aol.com) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 15:00:12 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 4, 2008 Message-ID: Hello Moni, nice to hear from you. Well, it is a simple story about this. Some weeks ago in our german meteorite forum _http://www.jgr-apolda.eu/_ (http://www.jgr-apolda.eu/) this cast of the Krahenberg meteorite was offered from a person that needed extremly fast some cash. He was a scientist and worked on the original meteorite years ago. I got in contact with him and we figured out this deal. Normaly I am a meteorite collector and not so much interested in casts, but the reason why I was personaly interested in this one is, that Krahenberg is my hometown meteorite. Krahenberg is only 20 minutes by car away from me. After I had the cast in my display I thought it would be nice to add some photos around it from the original location. For me personaly the most interested thing, was to be on the original place where this phantastic meteorite hit the ground. Best regards Hanno From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Wed Jun 4 15:28:45 2008 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 04 Jun 2008 19:28:45 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] =?iso-8859-1?q?RFS_Picture_of_the_Day=3A_Kr=E4he?= =?iso-8859-1?q?nberg_=28and_Bob=27s_Venus_Stone=29?= Message-ID: Hello Moni, Hanno, and Listees, Just like Hanno, I'm not very interested in plaster casts of meteorites. I prefer the real thing ;-) But years ago, I just couldn't resist buying one of Bob Haag's plaster casts of his famous "Venus Stone" (a.k.a. Adamana). It is such a perfect example of a flight-oriented and flight-marked meteorite and I still see Bob on TV holding his Venus Stone and demonstrating to the TV audience how it must have come "screaming" through the Earth's atmosphere. For those who are not familiar with Bob's Venus Stone: NORTON O. R. (2002) The Cambridge Encyclopedia of Meteorites (Cambridge University Press, ISBN 0 521 62143 7, p. 53) or: HAAG R. (2003) The Robert Haag Collection of Meteorites (Private Collection Edition, Tucson, Arizona, 127pp.) => cover photo Best, Bernd From epgrondine at yahoo.com Wed Jun 4 16:10:40 2008 From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 13:10:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] The Holocene Start Impacts Message-ID: <541190.27047.qm@web36906.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi all - There's little point in me mentioning here the First Peoples accounts of the Holocene Start Impacts. It will do nothing to improve the sale of "Man and Impact in the Americas", as I've already shared those traditions here with the list members for free. Some dismiss them as nonsense, while others have used stronger words. My mistake in MIIA was to date them to 8,350 BCE, which "cultural discontinuity" actually marks the introduction of European disease vectors into North America by the "Red Paint" people. Science marches on. E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas From indy1996 at yahoo.com Wed Jun 4 16:42:43 2008 From: indy1996 at yahoo.com (Dave Schultz) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 13:42:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Ensisheim 2008! In-Reply-To: <684695.29610.qm@web33105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <485118.58026.qm@web52904.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Sadly I won`t be able to make it to Ensisheim this year. :( I will surely miss all of the great times and experiences, but especially all of our friendly European collectors and dealers who have always welcomed us with open arms. Yes... especially my good friend Norbert Classen and his wife, who have graciously put up with me these last two years for a couple of days at his house. The cuckoo clock is still cu-ckooing! Have a good time everyone! Looking forward to many pics and stories! Dave > From: Michael Farmer > Subject: [meteorite-list] Ensisheim 2008! > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Wednesday, June 4, 2008, 12:04 PM > Hi everyone, I will be attending the fantastic Ensisheim > meteorite show again this year, and the St Marie aux Mines > mineral show the week after. > I look forward to a couple of weeks in France and Germany, > to escape the heat of Tucson! I will be displaying > meteorites with Moritz Karl in Ensisheim, and perhaps some > things with Hans in St Marie. > I will not bring much, as I am not all that excited to work > hard there, I prefer the eating and drinking part in France > more than the working part:) > If there is anything specific that all of my European > customers want me to bring, please let me know now so that > I can prepare the material. > See you all in France in two weeks. Those of you who have > never attended the Ensisheim show, you are really missing > out, if at all possible it is a fine trip to make, and not > all that expensive in that part of France. With Germany > only about a 10 minute drive and Switzerland about 40 > minutes, there are endless things to do there. > Michael Farmer > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From wahlperry at aol.com Wed Jun 4 18:22:21 2008 From: wahlperry at aol.com (wahlperry at aol.com) Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2008 18:22:21 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteoite Identification video part 1 Message-ID: <8CA94A8974999FD-B34-FA3@webmail-nd18.sysops.aol.com> Hi All, Check out my new meteorite identification video part 1. Parts 2 and 3 will be on iron and stony iron meteorites. I may have to change a few thing due to how you tube changes the appearance of the finished video. Sonny http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lD1hUJaS_Fk www.nevadameteorites.com From midwest at meteorman.org Wed Jun 4 19:10:46 2008 From: midwest at meteorman.org (Timothy Heitz) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 18:10:46 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] New web site In-Reply-To: <010401c8c674$05b84ed0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> References: <019801c8c64d$b802c5b0$cdde0c46@TimsLaptop> <010401c8c674$05b84ed0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: <026301c8c698$3aa1ccb0$afe56610$@org> Hello Martin,Moni, I have been powerless over cool looking meteorites for some time now. ABOUT THE METEORITE PUSHER The Meteorite Pusher is the distant cousin of the Google rock pusher. A man named Jimmy Oogle made these pushers and called them the Oogle later he sold them on a web site he called google, meaning go--oogle (The Google) back in the early 1990's a startup company called Google bought the web site name Google from him for $80,000 If only Jimmy would have known it would be worth millions today. Push those meteorites my way, Tim -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Martin Altmann Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 1:52 PM To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New web site Hi Moni and good evening Tim! >1. I am powerless over meteorites and it has made my life unmanageable. Your so right, Moni! I for instance am sleepless at night, Because there might be one of Tim's Meteorite Pushers under my bed! Martin -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Moni Waiblinger Gesendet: Mittwoch, 4. Juni 2008 17:21 An: Tim Heitz; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] New web site Hello Tim and good morning All! I love your images of you and these huge meteorites! Your Meteorite Creed: 1. I am powerless over meteorites and it has made my life unmanageable. I am sure most of everyone on this list feels the same. I guess you have seen many changes in the meteorite fields over the last 11 years. What are a few of them? With best regards, Moni _________________________________________________________________ Enjoy 5 GB of free, password-protected online storage. http://www.windowslive.com/skydrive/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_ skydrive_062008 ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From geeg48 at msn.com Wed Jun 4 20:40:01 2008 From: geeg48 at msn.com (GREG LINDH) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 17:40:01 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteoite Identification video part 1 In-Reply-To: <8CA94A8974999FD-B34-FA3@webmail-nd18.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CA94A8974999FD-B34-FA3@webmail-nd18.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Hi Sonny, As a relative newcomer, I appreciate your instructional video. I have only one suggestion. The blue lettering you used in the video was hard to read, especially once it begins to fade. I would recommend choosing some really bright colored lettering, and then not have it fade so quickly. As it is, one has to really read fast in order to read the text before it disappears. It's hard to examine the meteorite and read the text in the short space of time allowed. Does this make sense? Best wishes, Greg Lindh > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 18:22:21 -0400 > From: wahlperry at aol.com > Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteoite Identification video part 1 > > Hi All, > Check out my new meteorite identification video part 1. Parts 2 and 3 > will be on iron and stony iron meteorites. I may have to change a few > thing due to how you tube changes the appearance of the finished video. > > Sonny > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lD1hUJaS_Fk > > www.nevadameteorites.com > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoritemall at yahoo.com Thu Jun 5 00:47:09 2008 From: meteoritemall at yahoo.com (Ruben Garcia) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 21:47:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteoite Identification video part 1 In-Reply-To: <8CA94A8974999FD-B34-FA3@webmail-nd18.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <339009.76041.qm@web32507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hey Sonny, Pretty cool! You musta read my mind, I just finished - part 3 - meteorite I.D. for iron and pallasite meteorites. I'm uploading it now and will make it public in the morning! Here's alink to my Meteorite I.D. videos for chondrites - parts 1 and 2 http://www.mr-meteorite.com/meteoriteidentification.htm Ruben Garcia Phoenix, Arizona http://www.mr-meteorite.com From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Thu Jun 5 06:33:11 2008 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 06:33:11 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 5, 2008 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/June_5_2008.html **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002) From nwa482 at comcast.net Thu Jun 5 07:23:21 2008 From: nwa482 at comcast.net (Jim Strope) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 07:23:21 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Ebay Auctions ending - Planetaries etc Message-ID: <000201c8c6fe$90cff600$0202a8c0@DJQVK441> Good Morning All........ I have auctions ending tonight, ebay ID catchafallingstar.com. ALL started just at 99 Cents!!! FULL RECAP: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZcatchafallingstar.com I have a 3 Planetaries to offer this time: DAG 400 Lunar: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200220532057 NWA 2977 Lunar Gabbro: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200220532760 NWA 2986 Martian Shergottite: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200220833226 Of special note is NWA 2995 Lunar Coin/Medal LOW NUMBER 9: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200220518519 I have also listed the other Meteorite Coins/Medals in the series this time. Thanks for looking ................ Jim Strope 421 Fourth Street Glen Dale, WV 26038 http://www.catchafallingstar.com From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Thu Jun 5 11:57:53 2008 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 08:57:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Place Name Photos Message-ID: <265240.28497.qm@web55207.mail.re4.yahoo.com> WHo is the duantless individual that was collecting and publishing road signs from places where meteorites have fallen? Elton From paul at meteorite.com Thu Jun 5 12:59:59 2008 From: paul at meteorite.com (Paul Harris) Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2008 09:59:59 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] June Meteorite-Times is now up! Message-ID: <48481B8F.1020608@meteorite.com> Hello Everyone, Meteorite-Times for June is now up. http://www.meteorite-times.com/ Enjoy, Paul and Jim From paul at meteorite.com Thu Jun 5 13:13:57 2008 From: paul at meteorite.com (Paul Harris) Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2008 10:13:57 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Place Name Photos In-Reply-To: <265240.28497.qm@web55207.mail.re4.yahoo.com> References: <265240.28497.qm@web55207.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <48481ED5.7050403@meteorite.com> Hi Elton, That was Martin Horejsi. http://www.meteorite-times.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=1 Paul Mr EMan wrote: > WHo is the duantless individual that was collecting and publishing road signs from places where meteorites have fallen? > > Elton > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Thu Jun 5 13:52:19 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 10:52:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA's Phoenix Retesting Release of Martian Soil Message-ID: <200806051752.KAA26960@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/phoenix/release.php?ArticleID=1730 NASA's Phoenix Retesting Release of Martian Soil Jet Propulsion Laboratory June 03, 2008 TUCSON, Ariz. -- Engineers and scientists operating NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander decided early today to repeat a practice test of releasing Martian soil from the scoop on the lander's Robotic Arm. When the arm collected and released its first scoopful of soil on Sunday, some of the sample stuck to the scoop. The team told Phoenix this morning to lift another surface sample and release it, with more extensive imaging of the steps in the process. "We are proceeding cautiously," said Phoenix Principal Investigator Peter Smith of the University of Arizona. "Before we begin delivering samples to the instruments on the deck, we want a good understanding of how the soil behaves." An image of one of the analytical instruments received Monday night, June 2, underscored the need for precise release of samples. It shows the two spring-loaded doors on one of the tiny ovens of the Thermal and Evolved-Gas Analyzer. On Monday, engineers sent commands for the doors to open in preparation for receiving the instrument's first soil sample. Images returned that evening showed one door opened fully, the other partially. Phoenix engineers said the opening is wide enough to receive a sample, and that the door might open farther on its own, particularly once the sun warms the spring holding the door. The Phoenix mission is led by Smith at the University of Arizona with project management by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif., and development partnership at Lockheed Martin, Denver. International contributions come from the Canadian Space Agency; the University of Neuchatel, Switzerland; the universities of Copenhagen and Aarhus, Denmark; Max Planck Institute, Germany; and the Finnish Meteorological Institute. For more about Phoenix, visit: http://www.nasa.gov/phoenix and http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu. Media contacts: Guy Webster 818-354-5011 Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. guy.webster at jpl.nasa.gov From Metorman46 at aol.com Thu Jun 5 13:53:27 2008 From: Metorman46 at aol.com (Metorman46 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 13:53:27 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] MACOVICH COLL. / HERITAGE NATURAL HISTORY SALE THIS SUNDAY Message-ID: Thanks Darryl; That is an impressive collection up for auction.The pictures are great viewing.Thanks for sharing. Best Regards;Herman Archer IMCA # 2770 **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002) From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Thu Jun 5 13:55:13 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 10:55:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander Ready to Gather Samples Message-ID: <200806051755.KAA28149@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/phoenix/release.php?ArticleID=1731 NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander Ready to Gather Samples Jet Propulsion Laboratory June 04, 2008 TUCSON, Ariz. -- Two practice rounds of digging and dumping the clumpy soil at the Martian arctic site this week gave scientists and engineers gathered at the University of Arizona confidence to begin using Phoenix's Robotic Arm to deliver soil samples to instruments on the lander deck. Those samples will not be collected before Thursday. Following Wednesday's briefing on the mission, the Phoenix team learned that NASA's Odyssey orbiter, which relays Phoenix data to and from Earth, had entered a "safe mode," preventing Wednesday's (or sol 10) instructions from reaching the lander. Instead, Phoenix will complete a sequence of commands that are already stored on board. That sequence includes instructions for the lander to continue taking images required to assemble a full-color 360-degree high-resolution panorama. Odyssey mission managers are doing a check out of the orbiter to determine what triggered the safe mode. During safe mode, the spacecraft turns off non-essential operations and waits for instructions from Earth. In the meantime, the Phoenix team has been directed to issue commands to the lander and receive data through Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter (MRO). While Phoenix has been primarily utilizing Odyssey for relay services since MRO's UHF radio unexpectedly powered off during a relay pass on Sol 2, the radio has been exercised repeatedly over the past week and appears to be operating well. The two practice digs have already enticed scientists about some bright material in the soil just beneath the surface. "Two scoops into the soil we see there's a white layer becoming visible in the wall of the trench," said Carol Stoker of NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, Calif., a member of the Phoenix science team. Phoenix Principal Investigator Peter Smith said, "We've had an impassioned discussion of whether that may be salts or ice or some other material even more exotic." Concentrations of salts can be indicators of formerly wet conditions. One goal for the Phoenix mission is to determine whether the ice beneath the surface of far-northern Mars ever thaws during long-term climate cycles. The location chosen for the sample is adjacent to the hole dug by the two practice scoops. The team plans to command the arm to deliver the sample to the lander's Thermal and Evolved-Gas Analyzer (TEGA), after it first receives images to confirm that the scoop holds collected soil ready for delivery. "The arm has been performing flawlessly," said Ashitey Trebi-Ollennu of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, senior robotics engineer on the Phoenix Robotic Arm team. The arm made daring, Tai Chi or Yoga-like moves to position the Robotic Arm Camera to take pictures underneath the lander, and did its two test digs "magnificently," he said. Phoenix is the first mission to dig into Mars with a robotic arm since the Viking landers in the 1970s. "We have only dug to a depth of an inch or two, so we know there are challenges ahead," Trebi-Ollennu added. "But we are confident that we'll get a good amount of material to deliver to TEGA." In addition to the bright material seen where the arm collected test samples, a layer of hard, light-toned substrate has been seen in images taken underneath the lander by the Robotic Arm Camera. "We think the lander is sitting on a layer of this white material that possibly extends beyond, out into our work area," said Uwe Keller, Robotic Arm Camera lead scientist from the Max Planck Institute for Solar System Research, Katlenburg-Lindau, Germany. Phoenix's telltale, which is part of the Canadian Space Agency's meteorological package and the highest part of the lander, has proved to be very sensitive to Martian winds, said Haraldur Gunnlaugsson of the University of Aarhus, Denmark, which provided the device. "A storm on Mars is a gentle hand movement on Earth," Gunnlaugsson said. Surface Stereo Imager images of the telltale show a diurnal pattern to Martian winds. Winds come from the south in the morning, blow in from the north by mid-day, from the west in the afternoon, and again from the south by the end of the day. Knowledge of wind direction and speed is important to prevent possible contamination of samples during digging. The Phoenix mission is led by Smith at the University of Arizona with project management at JPL and development partnership at Lockheed Martin, Denver. International contributions come from the Canadian Space Agency; the University of Neuchatel, Switzerland; the universities of Copenhagen and Aarhus, Denmark; Max Planck Institute, Germany; and the Finnish Meteorological Institute. For more about Phoenix, visit: http://www.nasa.gov/phoenix and http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu. Media contacts: Guy Webster 818-354-5011 Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. guy.webster at jpl.nasa.gov From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Thu Jun 5 13:58:25 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 10:58:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Cassini Sees Collisions of Moonlets on Saturn's Ring Message-ID: <200806051758.KAA28907@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> Science and Technology Facilities Council Swindon, U.K. Contacts Julia Maddock STFC Press Office Tel: +44 (0)1793 442 094 Prof Carl Murray Queen Mary, University of London Tel: +44 (0)20 7882 5456 Dr Sebastien Charnoz Universite Paris 7 / CEA Saclay Tel : +33 1 69 086 130 Fax: +33 1 69 086 577 5 June 2008 Cassini sees collisions of moonlets on Saturn's ring A team of scientists led from the UK has discovered that the rapid changes in Saturn's F ring can be attributed to small moonlets causing perturbations. Their results are reported in Nature (5th June 2008). Saturn's F ring has long been of interest to scientists as its features change on timescales from hours to years and it is probably the only location in the solar system where large scale collisions happen on a daily basis. Understanding these processes helps scientists understand the early stages of planet formation. Prof Carl Murray of Queen Mary, University of London and member of the Cassini Imaging Team led the analysis. He says: "Saturns F ring is perhaps the most unusual and dynamic ring in the solar system; it has multiple structures with features changing on a variety of timescales from hours to years." The team used images gathered by the NASA-ESA Cassini Huygens mission. Images snapped by Cassini in 2006 and 2007 show the formation and evolution of a series of structures (called "jets" in the paper) that are the result of collisions between small nearby moonlets and the core of the F ring. A ~5km object discovered by Cassini in 2004 (called S/2004 S 6) is the best candidate to explain some of the largest jets seen in the images. Prof Murray adds, "Previous research has noted the features in the F ring and concluded that either another moon of radius about 100km must be present and scattering the particles in the ring, or a much smaller moonlet was colliding with its constituent particles. We can now say that the moonlet is the most likely explanation and even confirm the identity of one culprit." The F ring and all the nearby objects are being continually perturbed by encounters with the shepherding moon Prometheus and this allows the gravitational signature of the embedded objects to be detected, even when the objects themselves cannot be seen. Dr Sebastien Charnoz of Universite Paris 7 / CEA Saclay is a co-author on the paper. He says, "Large scale collisions happen in Saturns F ring almost daily -- making it a unique place to study. We can now say that these collisions are responsible for the changing features we observe there." The Cassini images also show new features (called "fans") which result from the gravitational effect of small (~1km) satellites orbiting close to the F ring core. Prof Keith Mason, STFC Chief Executive Officer, which funds UK involvement in Cassini-Huygens said, "This incredibly successful mission has taught us a great deal about the solar system and the processes at work in it. Understanding how small objects move within the dust rings around Saturn gives an insight into the processes that drive planetary formation, where the proto-planet collects material in its orbit through a dust plane and carves out similar grooves and tracks." Notes for Editors Paper title: "The determination of the structure of Saturn's F ring by nearby moonlets" Carl D. Murray, Kevin Beurle, Nicholas J. Cooper, Michael W. Evans, Gareth A. Williams & Sebastien Charnoz Images * Saturn's F-Ring. Credit: NASA/JPL/Space Science Institute http://www.scitech.ac.uk/resources/image/CassFRing.jpg (173KB) Further images showing Saturn's F ring are available below: http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/multimedia/images/image-details.cfm?imageID=3055 http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/multimedia/images/image-details.cfm?imageID=3052 http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/multimedia/images/image-details.cfm?imageID=2933 http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/multimedia/images/image-details.cfm?imageID=2850 http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/multimedia/images/image-details.cfm?imageID=2648 http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/multimedia/images/image-details.cfm?imageID=2560 http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/multimedia/images/image-details.cfm?imageID=2463 http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/multimedia/images/image-details.cfm?imageID=2335 http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/multimedia/images/image-details.cfm?imageID=2330 http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/multimedia/images/image-details.cfm?imageID=1700 Cassini-Huygens mission The Cassini-Huygens mission is a cooperative project of NASA, the European Space Agency and the Italian Space Agency. The Jet Propulsion Laboratory, a division of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena, manages the Cassini-Huygens mission for NASA's Science Mission Directorate, Washington. The Cassini orbiter was designed, developed and assembled at JPL. For more information on the Cassini-Huygens mission, visit the NASA website, http://www.nasa.gov/cassini/ About STFC, http://www.scitech.ac.uk/about/introduction.aspx From Metorman46 at aol.com Thu Jun 5 13:58:59 2008 From: Metorman46 at aol.com (Metorman46 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 13:58:59 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] ziz (NWA 854) Message-ID: In a message dated 6/3/2008 4:45:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, Metorman46 writes: Hello Steve; You asked what is the difference between IAB AND IIAB IRON METEORITES.From the reading i have done over the eons about iron meteorites my understanding is this; IAB is,of course,a coarse octahedrite with a bandwidth of from 1.3 mm to 3.3 mm,a IIAB is a hexahedrite with a bandwidth of 3.3 mm to 50 mm.The cooling time of a coarse octahedrite is less than the cooling time for a hexahedrite which allows for larger crystals to develop in a hexahedrite which allows a larger bandwidth to form ( widmanstatten pattern ). If you want to really get into studying iron meteorites go to a library and borrow V.F. BUCHWALDS-HANDBOOK OF IRON METEORITES-There is no better reference and study guide on earth concerning iron meteorites.They are also for sale sometimes on the internet. Iron meteorites are very exciting,i think,and i am glad you think so too. Hope this helps Best Regards;Herman Archer IMCA # 2770 Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002) From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Thu Jun 5 14:02:40 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 11:02:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] MRO HiRISE Images - June 4, 2008 Message-ID: <200806051802.LAA00832@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> MARS RECONNAISSANCE ORBITER HIRISE IMAGES June 4, 2008 o North Polar Layered Deposits http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_008244_2645 o Awakening Dunes http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_008208_2600 o Proposed MSL Landing Site in Holden Crater http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_008193_1535 o Wrinkle Ridges in Western Elysium Planitia http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_007896_1890 All of the HiRISE images are archived here: http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ Information about the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter is online at http://www.nasa.gov/mro. The mission is managed by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, a division of the California Institute of Technology, for the NASA Science Mission Directorate, Washington, D.C. Lockheed Martin Space Systems, of Denver, is the prime contractor and built the spacecraft. HiRISE is operated by the University of Arizona. Ball Aerospace and Technologies Corp., of Boulder, Colo., built the HiRISE instrument. From freequarks at gmail.com Thu Jun 5 14:26:50 2008 From: freequarks at gmail.com (Dark Matter) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 12:26:50 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Place Name Photos In-Reply-To: <48481ED5.7050403@meteorite.com> References: <265240.28497.qm@web55207.mail.re4.yahoo.com> <48481ED5.7050403@meteorite.com> Message-ID: <822da19a0806051126vf0ed47dt300105323c535672@mail.gmail.com> Hello, I am slowly getting back into the meteorite swing of things (new job, new town), and have a few more gallery images yet to post. If you are one of the kind ones who sent me a pic and I've have not posted it, just send a quick reminder so I can locate you previous email. If you have a meteorite place sign, please email it to me at my accretiondesk at gmail.com address. Please tell me what it is, who you are, and if you DO NOT want your name posted as the person who submitted the sign. Thanks, Martin On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 11:13 AM, Paul Harris wrote: > Hi Elton, > > That was Martin Horejsi. > http://www.meteorite-times.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=1 > > Paul > > > Mr EMan wrote: >> >> WHo is the duantless individual that was collecting and publishing road >> signs from places where meteorites have fallen? >> Elton >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> >> > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Thu Jun 5 16:23:18 2008 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 22:23:18 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Special: New & Truly Unique Lunar NWA 4898 - Youngest Basalt, no such material known so far. Message-ID: <007101c8c749$fe7416a0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Dear collectors, since NWA 4898 was introduced on the last Lunar and Planetary Science conference in Houston last March, the specialists impatiently were asking, when Chladni's Heirs will finally will make this storming material available. The time of waiting was well worth, today we will set up a set of slices for sale! - also for those, planning their budgets for Ensisheim, being able to take advantage of that offer right now at a preferential price. NWA 4898 is in short words a truly unique and unpaired new basaltic lunaite. And not only we consider this Moon to be though not the largest but probably our best recovery in more than 8 years of intensively searching the NWA market, because it is a meteorite of a very high scientific interest and a significant importance, which is already well studied by many researchers around the World. NWA 4898 represents a so far un-sampled type of lunar basalt. Already its macroscopic texture evidently separates NWA 4898 from all other lunar rocks. The structures looking like a frost pattern indicate an instantaneous crystallization and therefore NWA 4898 is suggested to have rapidly cooled either directly after an eruption or in a shallow lava stream on the very surface of the Moon. With a crystallization age of only 3.578 Ga, NWA 4898 falls in the very late phase of geologic activity of the Moon. Therefore Chladni's Heirs close the circle: >From the ancient KREEP-bearing relic basalt NWA 4485 to the NWA 4898 as the quite youngest basalt ever. No desert, nor any Antarctic find, neither any of the Apollo samples resembles NWA 4898. Please find detailed and elaborate information about NWA 4898 in these both abstracts Greshake, Irving, Kuehner, Korotev et al.: Northwest Africa NWA 4898: A New High-Alumina Mare Basalt from the Moon http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2008/pdf/1631.pdf and Gaffney, Borg, DePaolo, Irving: Age and Isotope Systematics of Northwest Africa 4898, a New Type of Highly-Depleted Mare Basalt http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2008/pdf/1877.pdf not to forget the pages about NWA 4898 on R.Korotev's well-known Lunar-Meteorites-Site: http://meteorites.wustl.edu/lunar/stones/nwa4898.htm A little correction we have to add to the data of the official entry in the Meteoritical Bulletin: 2007 is the year of purchase and not the year of find. NWA 4898 was found in Sahara desert in 2005/2006. Since then our stone is the only mass till today. On our special-page we have listed a good variety of slices and partslices. In listing different sizes, from museum grade fullslices to smaller specimens below $500, we tried to meet the needs of all types of collectors. But please note, that with 137grams the tkw is very limited. We decided to keep the specimens affordable for the list-members, in pricing the specimens at 1900$/g. Later we will have a regular price, which will reflect more adequately the uniqueness of this material. http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/special-nwa4898.html And now it's up to you to take your choice of your share of this solitaire among the lunar rocks and soils. Best Regards, Stefan Ralew & Martin Altmann Chladni's Heirs Munich - Berlin Fine Meteorites for Science & Collectors From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Thu Jun 5 18:44:49 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 15:44:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Highest Resolution View Ever From Mars Comes From Phoenix Lander Message-ID: <200806052244.PAA11954@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> FROM: Lori Stiles (520-360-0574; lstiles at u.arizona.edu) Highest Resolution View Ever From Mars Comes From Phoenix Lander University of Arizona June 5, 2008 A microscope on NASA's Mars Phoenix Lander has taken images of dust and sand particles with the greatest resolution ever returned from another planet. The mission's Optical Microscope observed particles that had fallen onto an exposed surface, revealing grains as small as one-tenth the diameter of a human hair. "We have images showing the diversity of mineralogy on Mars at a scale that is unprecedented in planetary exploration," said Michael Hecht of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena. He is the lead scientist for Phoenix's Microscopy, Electrochemistry and Conductivity Analyzer (MECA) instrument suite. The Phoenix mission is led by Peter Smith at The University of Arizona with project management at JPL and development partnership at Lockheed Martin, Denver. Meanwhile, Phoenix received commands Thursday to collect its first soil sample to be delivered to a laboratory instrument on the lander deck. Commands for that same activity sent on Wednesday did not reach Phoenix because the orbiter intended for relaying the transmission, NASA's Mars Odyssey, had put itself into a safe standby mode shortly before the commands would have reached Odyssey. On Wednesday, the lander completed a back-up plan of activities that had been sent previously, reported JPL's Chris Lewicki, mission manager for Phoenix surface operations on the lander's 11th Martian day. That plan included weather monitoring and additional imaging for a high-resolution color panorama of the site. The Optical Microscope images were taken June 3 of particles that had collected on a sticky surface exposed during the Phoenix landing and for five days after landing. "It's a first quick look," Hecht said. "This experiment was partly an insurance policy for something to observe with the microscope before getting a soil sample delivered by the arm, and partly a characterization of the Optical Microscope. All the tools are working well." Some of the particles might have come from inside the spacecraft during the forceful events of landing, but many match expectations for Martian particles. "We will be using future observations of soil samples delivered by the Robotic Arm to confirm whether the types of particles in this dustfall sample are also seen in samples we can be certain are Martian in origin," Hecht said. The particles show a range of shapes and colors. "You can see the amount of variety there is in what appears otherwise to be just reddish brown soil," said Tom Pike, Phoenix science team member from Imperial College London. He noted that one translucent particle resembles a grain of salt, but that it is too early to say for sure. Thursday's commands were relayed to Phoenix via NASA's Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter. The relay radio on that orbiter has been working well in recent days, after intermittently turning itself off last week. Phoenix will continue to do relays via Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter until Odyssey returns to full functioning, and then Phoenix will use both orbiters. "We are currently bringing the Odyssey spacecraft back into nominal operations, and we will resume relay service with Odyssey in the next day or two," said JPL's Chad Edwards, chief telecommunications engineer for the JPL Mars Exploration Program. "We think Odyssey went into safe mode because of a single event that affected computer memory," Edwards said. "Yesterday's safe mode event appears to be very similar to events that have caused Odyssey to go into safe mode two or three times earlier during its long operation around Mars." Odyssey has been orbiting Mars since 2001. International contributions to the Phoenix Mars mission come from the Canadian Space Agency; the University of Neuchatel, Switzerland; the universities of Copenhagen and Aarhus, Denmark; Max Planck Institute, Germany; and the Finnish Meteorological Institute. WEBLINKS: http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu http://www.nasa.gov/phoenix MEDIA CONTACTS: Guy Webster, Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. (818-354-5011; guy.webster at jpl.nasa.gov) Sara Hammond, University of Arizona (520-626-1974; shammond at lpl.arizona.edu) Dwayne Brown, NASA Headquarters, Washington (202-358-1726; dwayne.c.brown at nasa.gov) EDITORS NOTE: The JPL Media Relations Office also issued this release. From deanbessey at yahoo.com Thu Jun 5 19:43:39 2008 From: deanbessey at yahoo.com (dean bessey) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 16:43:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: MALI, 15% off Ebay, some Achondrites In-Reply-To: <200806051758.KAA28907@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <738672.2430.qm@web56113.mail.re3.yahoo.com> I have been busy with my new shop lately and havent been very active but should get semi back to normal soon. Firstly, I plan to redo all my ebay auctions and in an effort to sell off ones that have been listed for a while I have made a 15% discount on everything. http://stores.ebay.com/DEANS-COLLECTIBLES-AND-GEMSTONES_Meteorites_W0QQcolZ4QQdirZ1QQfsubZ4QQftidZ2QQtZkm I have some MALI at $2 a gram. These will go to ensisheim and St Marie where they will be offered at 2 Euros if they dont sell. All have over half crust and are nice. Email me for photos if interested (Price not negotiable on these). Sizes are: 1077 Grams 329 498 708 254 338 These have been drying up so I doubt many more will turn up. I also have achondrites in these two ebay auctions #180219010434 and #180219010423. 20% off the indicated prices on these two if interested. Cheers DEAN (AMUNRE on ebay) http://stores.ebay.com/DEANS-COLLECTIBLES-AND-GEMSTONES_Meteorites_W0QQcolZ4QQdirZ1QQfsubZ4QQftidZ2QQtZkm From fuzzfoot at comcast.net Thu Jun 5 20:00:34 2008 From: fuzzfoot at comcast.net (Mike Bandli) Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2008 00:00:34 +0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] Looking for some NWA 1240 Message-ID: <060620080000.19756.48487E2200015D2F00004D2C22007637049B01010096969A00@comcast.net> I'm trying to find some NWA 1240 for my collection. If anyone wants to part with their piece, please contact me off list. Cheers, Mike Bandli From meteoritefinder at gmail.com Thu Jun 5 20:51:56 2008 From: meteoritefinder at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 17:51:56 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Centimeter cubes- ad- made by hand from Muonionalusta meteorite-ad Message-ID: <468bf6050806051751o1aa3bc90nd0f96886035faa25@mail.gmail.com> Hi Everyone I have just finished making by hand, one at time some extremely cool centimeter cubes made from etched Muonionalusta meteorite. These are not mass produced these are meticulously hand crafted 1 at a time and as close to perfect as I can make them. Anyone who knows me knows I am pretty picky when it comes to finishing meteorites. I am very happy with these they are top of the line. They are all the same size and the same shape and they all have the same great etch, so I see no reason to photograph each one. They are all well....centimeter cubes. Oh yea all that talk about about hand made to exact tolerances means they are not inexpensive either : ) You can have a look here http://www.meteoritefinder.com/centimeter-cubes-for%20-sale.htm Thanks -- Mike Miller 230 Greenway Dr. Kingman Az 86401 www.meteoritefinder.com 928-753-6825 From wahlperry at aol.com Thu Jun 5 21:01:26 2008 From: wahlperry at aol.com (wahlperry at aol.com) Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2008 21:01:26 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Centimeter cubes- ad- made by hand from Muonionalusta meteorite-ad In-Reply-To: <468bf6050806051751o1aa3bc90nd0f96886035faa25@mail.gmail.com> References: <468bf6050806051751o1aa3bc90nd0f96886035faa25@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8CA9587FA6B8904-A74-F3F@webmail-da03.sysops.aol.com> Hi Mike, Wow! Sonny -----Original Message----- From: Mike Miller To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 5:51 pm Subject: [meteorite-list] Centimeter cubes- ad- made by hand from Muonionalusta meteorite-ad Hi Everyone I have just finished making by hand, one at time some extremely cool centimeter cubes made from etched Muonionalusta meteorite. These are not mass produced these are meticulously hand crafted 1 at a time and as close to perfect as I can make them. Anyone who knows me knows I am pretty picky when it comes to finishing meteorites. I am very happy with these they are top of the line. They are all the same size and the same shape and they all have the same great etch, so I see no reason to photograph each one. They are all well....centimeter cubes. Oh yea all that talk about about hand made to exact tolerances means they are not inexpensive either : ) You can have a look here http://www.meteoritefinder.com/centimeter-cubes-for%20-sale.htm Thanks -- Mike Miller 230 Greenway Dr. Kingman Az 86401 www.meteoritefinder.com 928-753-6825 ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoritemall at yahoo.com Thu Jun 5 23:16:02 2008 From: meteoritemall at yahoo.com (Ruben Garcia) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 20:16:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] New Meteorite I.D. video for Iron and Pallasite Meteorites! Message-ID: <169240.60196.qm@web32508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi all, Just uploaded my New Meteorite I.D. video for Iron and Pallasite meteorites. Nothin people on this forum don't know... I made it for all the newbie meteorite Hunter/collectors in cyber space. Special Thanks to Mike Miller at http://www.meteoritefinder.com for allowing me to use his photos! CAUTION: As usual - Rock and Roll played here - Watch and Listen at your oun risk! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAuXPNt4raQ Web page with all three of my meteorite I.D. videos http://www.mr-meteorite.com/meteoriteidentification.htm Ruben Garcia Phoenix, Arizona http://www.mr-meteorite.com From info at tektiteinc.com Fri Jun 6 00:27:32 2008 From: info at tektiteinc.com (info at tektiteinc.com) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 23:27:32 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD Rizalite 698Grams auction ending in one day! Message-ID: <38878.127.0.0.1.1212726452.squirrel@srv08.ezyreg.com> Hello all, Please have a look at my auction for a 698gram Rizalite which will end in one day. Thanks! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=350064619313&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT&ih=022 Cheers, Desmond Leong IMCA #2254 http://www.TektiteInc.com http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZtektiteinc-dot-com From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Fri Jun 6 09:09:57 2008 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 09:09:57 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 6, 2008 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/June_6_2008.html **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002) From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Fri Jun 6 11:44:51 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 08:44:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars Odyssey THEMIS Images: June 2-6, 2008 Message-ID: <200806061544.IAA06345@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> MARS ODYSSEY THEMIS IMAGES June 2-6, 2008 o Slope Streaks (Released 02 June 2008) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20080602a o Wind Action (Released 03 June 2008) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20080603a o Cerberus Fossae (Released 04 June 2008) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20080604a o Tharsis Winds (Released 05 June 2008) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20080605a o Hecates Tholus (Released 06 June 2008) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20080606a All of the THEMIS images are archived here: http://themis.asu.edu/latest.html NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory manages the 2001 Mars Odyssey mission for NASA's Office of Space Science, Washington, D.C. The Thermal Emission Imaging System (THEMIS) was developed by Arizona State University, Tempe, in co.oration with Raytheon Santa Barbara Remote Sensing. The THEMIS investigation is led by Dr. Philip Christensen at Arizona State University. Lockheed Martin Astronautics, Denver, is the prime contractor for the Odyssey project, and developed and built the orbiter. Mission operations are conducted jointly from Lockheed Martin and from JPL, a division of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena. From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Fri Jun 6 11:47:14 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 08:47:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Dawn Journal - May 27, 2008 Message-ID: <200806061547.IAA07329@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://dawn.jpl.nasa.gov/mission/journal_5_27_08.asp Dawn Journal Dr. Marc Rayman May 27, 2008 Dear Pseudawnyms, The Dawn mission continues smoothly, as the spacecraft reliably thrusts with its ion propulsion system, demonstrating all the patience of a - well, of an ion-propelled spacecraft! In the 243 days since launch, the probe has thrust a total of about 140 days. While only around 7% of the total thrusting it will do in its mission, this figure represents vastly more powered flight than any spacecraft that uses conventional chemical propulsion would be capable of. In all this time, the ion thruster has consumed only 37 kilograms (82 pounds) of xenon propellant but yielded a change in the spacecraft's speed of 0.87 kilometers per second (1900 miles per hour). In most months this year, Dawn's flight profile includes a few days of coasting so mission controllers can conduct special activities. The spacecraft was asked (and, of course, it politely complied) not to resume thrusting after its weekly communications session with faraway Earth on May 12. While some members of the team were conducting a 3-day workshop to prepare for the complex program of scientific measurements to be conducted at Vesta in 2011 and 2012, the spacecraft conducted other work. To ensure that certain backup memory locations remain uncorrupted by space radiation (or by undesirable social practices on some planets far from the plane of the Milky Way galaxy), engineers occasionally will check the memory contents. If errors were found, they could be corrected so that if the spacecraft ever had to call upon backup memory, the data there would be in intact. As expected, all the tests verified that the memory was in perfect condition. Some of the time in this period was devoted to the mission's first periodic maintenance on components of the attitude control system. This system's name may be misleading, as it has displayed a most decorous style in working both with its fellow spacecraft systems and with its human colleagues. In this case, "attitude" denotes the probe's orientation in the weightless conditions of spaceflight. The spacecraft carries 4 reaction wheels, gyroscope-like devices which, when electrically spun faster or slower, rotate (or stop the rotation of) the spacecraft. Only 3 wheels need to be operated at a time; as with most components, Dawn has backups so the mission may continue even if a unit experiences problems. Wheel #4 (known to the irreverent but creative flight team as "wheel #4") was powered off during the initial checkout phase of the mission last year, but now it is wheel #3's turn to be the backup, and the switch was made during this coast period. For most of the mission, the attitude control system's gyroscopes are not powered, as they are not designed to operate for the duration of the 8-year flight. These devices, not to be confused with the reaction wheels, help achieve the accurate pointing needed by the camera and the visible and infrared spectrometer to uncover mysteries of asteroid Vesta and dwarf planet Ceres. The intricate mechanisms have to be operated occasionally, so they were activated and allowed to run for about 2 days. All of the ion thrusting since the beginning of the long-term interplanetary cruise phase has used ion thruster #3. Now thrust in a specific direction in space is required to reach Dawn's celestial targets. The ion thrusters point in different directions on the spacecraft, so the orientation (if not the attitude) of the spacecraft during thrusting depends on which thruster is selected. To point thruster #1 on the bearing needed for thrust would cause the Sun to illuminate a part of the spacecraft that has not yet been exposed to direct light from that star. (Of course, many other stars have shone on that portion of the craft, and while many of them are brighter than the Sun, we may resort to the narrow perspective of our solar system readers and discount those stars because of their extraordinary remoteness.) Flight controllers have complex computer programs to predict the temperatures under such conditions, but as sophisticated as these tools are, their accuracy is not always sufficient. The typical duration of a set of thrust instructions is 5 weeks, so before committing the spacecraft to spending so long in this unfamiliar orientation, a half day was devoted to measuring the temperatures at two orientations representative of what would be required for thrusting with thruster #1. Engineers now are using those data to refine the predictions for what the temperatures would be when thrusting. On May 14, having accomplished all its special activities, the spacecraft resumed ion propulsion. Since then, it has continued with its normal routine of only short suspensions of thrust each week for pointing its main antenna to Earth. As Dawn continued devoting its attention to its flight through deep space, the operations team recognized some other noteworthy events elsewhere in the very same solar system. Among the other spacecraft conducting exciting and important investigations of the cosmos, Phoenix had a particularly thrilling time on May 25 with its descent through the Martian atmosphere and its wonderfully successful landing in the far northern plains of the fourth planet from the Sun. Curious as it may seem, while their spacecraft are 56 million kilometers (35 million miles) apart, the Dawn and Phoenix teams at JPL are only 2 floors apart in building 264. (We appreciate that you readers in a small, faint, lenticular galaxy in Sculptor have a particular fondness for this building's impressive designation). Now that Phoenix is beginning the scientific part of its mission, along with space enthusiasts everywhere we congratulate the Phoenix team, many of whom are our friends and colleagues, on this superb accomplishment. On the same day, we remembered Dr. Ernst Stuhlinger, who died at age 94. He played an important role in the long development of ion propulsion, making valuable contributions as early as the 1950s. He followed Deep Space 1 (the first mission to use ion propulsion for interplanetary flight) and Dawn with great interest and was most gracious in his expressions of enthusiastic support for both missions. His many kind words about these ambitious and challenging projects meant a great deal to your correspondent, a lifelong space enthusiast, who knew of Dr. Stuhlinger's work even as a youngster studying the space activities of 20th century humans. Quite unaware of those news items, the spacecraft patiently travels farther from both Earth and the Sun. During this part of its mission, it recedes from its former home much faster than it does from the Sun. Tomorrow, on May 28, it will be equidistant from the two. Dawn will be 244 million kilometers (152 million miles) from Earth and from the Sun. With the planet 152 million kilometers (94 million miles) from the star, the trio forms a aesthetically symmetrical triangle. If the distance from the Sun to Earth were 1.00 units, the other two sides of the triangle each would be 1.61 units. Geometers call such a shape an "isosceles triangle," whereas some young male residents of the constellation Triangulum call it a "hot babe." To keep apprised of Dawn's current location, be sure to visit the cool new feature "Where is Dawn Now?" at http://dawn.jpl.nasa.gov/mission/live_shots.asp. The site includes depictions not only of the craft's trajectory and location but also of its attitude (that is, its orientation; visualizations of its behavioral manner and emotional state have not been implemented yet), allowing readers to achieve greater accuracy in their enactments of Dawn whenever they have access to the World Wide Web. Dawn is 243 million kilometers (151 million miles) from Earth, or 630 times as far as the moon and 1.60 times as far as the Sun. Radio signals, traveling at the universal limit of the speed of light, take 27 minutes to make the round trip. From meteoriteplaya at gmail.com Fri Jun 6 12:54:56 2008 From: meteoriteplaya at gmail.com (Mike Jensen) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 10:54:56 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad Book list & meteorite Sale Message-ID: <6f9da8300806060954s55a9410fy797f62ad3ce4d8b3@mail.gmail.com> Hi all It has been a while since I have done a book sale. I did have a copy of Nininger Photographic Study...Part 1 but it sold to my Yahoo groups list. If you want first choice please sign up for my group; http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Jensen-Meteorites/ I have also reduced the price of some of the books and pamphlets on my website. I will further reduce the prices another 20% for all used books and pamphlets except those with an Rarity rating. http://jensenmeteorites.com/book_cat.htm I also wanted to mention the new book by Norton and Chitwood was delayed by the publisher. I am not selling it but would recommend you pre order a copy from Amazon. Looks like the price is a little higher as I got mine for $26 or so and now it is $30. http://tinyurl.com/452mnc I have been offering more meteorites in my Ebay store. Currently I have 80 for sale so please check them out; http://tinyurl.com/36lum2 If you see any you want to purchase let me know and I will reduce the price by 10% if I can pull them off Ebay first. So let me know if there is anything you cannot live without; Burke, John G. 1986 Cosmic Debris: Meteorites in History. University of California Press: Berkeley. Hardcover in G+/G+ condition. Simply the best book on the History of Meteorites. 445 pages. Rarity R2 $60.00 Farrington, Oliver C. 1915. Catalogue of the Meteorites of North America to January 1, 1909. National Academy of Sciences, Volume XIII, Washington. Maroon cloth hardback in G- condition no DJ as issued. Faded covers, spine tore, boards loose. Hard to find book in any condition. 450 pages Rarity R3 $205.00 Gomes, C. B. & Keil, K. 1980. Brazilian Stone Meteorites. U of New Mexico Press 1st Ed. 8vo., hardback, no DJ as issued. VG condition. Only mark is a bump to bottom of cover. First 46 pages cover fairly scientific treatment of meteorites in general. Rest of book includes lots of information and pictures of Angra de Rios the angrite, Governador Valadares a nakhlite, and Ibitira and Serra de Mage both eucrites. In all 21 meteorites are covered. 159 pp. $25.00 Grady M. M. & Hutchison, Robert & McCall, G. J. H. & Rothery, David A. 1998 Meteorites: Flux With Time and Impact Effects. Geological Society Pub House. Hardcover with no DJ as issued. This is a real heavy duty book with several scientific articles on meteorites but with many more articles on impacts. 278 pp Original retail $160.00 now only $95.00 Graham, A. & Beven, A. & Hutchison, R. 1985. Catalogue of Meteorites with special reference to those represented in the collection of the British Museum (Natural History). Fourth edition revised and enlarged. University of Arizona Press, Tucson, Arizona. Hardcover, 460 pages G- condition, spine damaged for 2" on top of book, spine cocked, minor highlighting, soiled edges damaged corners. $45.00. Hawkins, Gerald S. 1964 The Physics and Astronomy of Meteors, Comets and Meteorites. McGraw-Hill Book Co. New York. B & w illust. And index. Good hardcover, with dj in mylar, Ex lib. with usual artifacts. 124 pp $5.00 Merrill, George P., 1938 Minerals From Earth and Sky, with part one: The Story of Meteorites. Smithsonian Scientific Series: Volume three. Hardcover (red cover), 163 pages in part one (331 pages total in book +42 plates). Very good, previous owners inscription front end paper. $30.00. Nininger, H. H. 1942 A Comet Strikes the Earth. Desert Magazine Press El Centro CA. Stiff, orange/rust, stapled wrappers 4?" x 6". Includes an oxidized fragment of nickel-iron meteorite from Meteor Crater, Arizona. Poor condition with water stains to both covers. Previous owner's stamp on title page and rear end paper. Correction page pasted to front end paper. Hard to find this rare 1st edition in any condition. $20.00 Nininger, H. H. 1956 Arizona's Meteorite Crater: Past-Present-Future. American Meteorite Museum, Sedona. Cloth hard cover (VG) with DJ in G-(lots of scrapes and chips). Previous owners stamp on fep. 232 pp. $55.00 I also have a signed copy that is in rough shape(ex library). I am waiting to receive it but will sell it for only $95.00. Let me know if you are interested in it and I will contact you once it arrives. Nininger, H.H. 1972 Find a Falling Star. Paul S. Erickson NY. 8vo., hardcover in VG condition with poor DJ, numerous tears and pieces missing. 254 pp. $55.00 Nininger, H. H. 1933 Our Stone-Pelted Planet. American Meteorite Museum, Winslow. very good/no dj; blue cloth hardcover; some spots on cover spine slightly cocked. Signed the by author "Jan 4, 1949 H. H. Nininger". 237 pp. Rarity R3. $195.00 Nininger, H. H. 1952 Out of the Sky An Introduction to Meteoritics. U of Denver Press, Denver. 8vo., hardcover, VG condition DJ-poor, numerous tears and chips. Previous owners CA Academy of Sciences Library book plate front inside cover, embossed seal on title page and library catalog number on DJ spine. 336 pp. Rarity R2 $75.00 Nininger, H. H. 1959 Out of the Sky An Introduction to Meteoritics. Dover Publications, New York 1959. Paperback. 336 pp. VG++ condition. One of the best paperbacks condition wise I have ever had. $40.00 O'Keefe, John A. ed. 1963 Tektites. University of Chicago Press. 8vo. dark blue cloth hardcover. VG condition, ex library with usual artifacts. 228 pp $65.00 Saint Gorge's Brotherhood of the Meteorite's Guardian and the History Society Present, Story of a Meteorite. History of the Ensisheim meteorite, with distribution insert. Oversized booklet 14 pp. $10.00 Wood, John A. 1968 Meteorites and the Origin of Planets. McGraw-Hill, NY. 12mo, blue cloth hard cover, VG+/No Jacket. Price ink stamped & handwritten pencil signature to fep. 117 pp. $12.00 Mike -- Mike Jensen Jensen Meteorites 16730 E Ada PL Aurora, CO 80017-3137 USA 303-337-4361 IMCA 4264 website: www.jensenmeteorites.com From almitt at kconline.com Fri Jun 6 16:44:26 2008 From: almitt at kconline.com (AL Mitterling) Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2008 16:44:26 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad Book list & meteorite Sale In-Reply-To: <6f9da8300806060954s55a9410fy797f62ad3ce4d8b3@mail.gmail.com> References: <6f9da8300806060954s55a9410fy797f62ad3ce4d8b3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4849A1AA.1090104@kconline.com> Hi Mike, Some very nice items in your selection! Including the old Farrington Catalog that Nininger used to learn about meteorites. I am looking forward to Richard Norton's Field Guide to Meteorites. Any Norton Book is always great to read and re-read later. --AL Mitterling Mike Jensen wrote: > Hi all > It has been a while since I have done a book sale. I did have a copy > of Nininger Photographic Study...Part 1 but it sold to my Yahoo groups > list. If you want first choice please sign up for my group; > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Jensen-Meteorites/ > > I have also reduced the price of some of the books and pamphlets on my > website. I will further reduce the prices another 20% for all used > books and pamphlets except those with an Rarity rating. > http://jensenmeteorites.com/book_cat.htm > > I also wanted to mention the new book by Norton and Chitwood was > delayed by the publisher. I am not selling it but would recommend you > pre order a copy from Amazon. Looks like the price is a little higher > as I got mine for $26 or so and now it is $30. > http://tinyurl.com/452mnc > > I have been offering more meteorites in my Ebay store. Currently I > have 80 for sale so please check them out; > http://tinyurl.com/36lum2 > If you see any you want to purchase let me know and I will reduce the > price by 10% if I can pull them off Ebay first. > > So let me know if there is anything you cannot live without; > > Burke, John G. 1986 Cosmic Debris: Meteorites in History. University > of California Press: Berkeley. Hardcover in G+/G+ condition. Simply > the best book on the History of Meteorites. 445 pages. Rarity R2 > $60.00 > > Farrington, Oliver C. 1915. Catalogue of the Meteorites of North > America to January 1, 1909. National Academy of Sciences, Volume XIII, > Washington. Maroon cloth hardback in G- condition no DJ as issued. > Faded covers, spine tore, boards loose. Hard to find book in any > condition. 450 pages Rarity R3 $205.00 > > Gomes, C. B. & Keil, K. 1980. Brazilian Stone Meteorites. U of New > Mexico Press 1st Ed. 8vo., hardback, no DJ as issued. VG condition. > Only mark is a bump to bottom of cover. First 46 pages cover fairly > scientific treatment of meteorites in general. Rest of book includes > lots of information and pictures of Angra de Rios the angrite, > Governador Valadares a nakhlite, and Ibitira and Serra de Mage both > eucrites. In all 21 meteorites are covered. 159 pp. $25.00 > > Grady M. M. & Hutchison, Robert & McCall, G. J. H. & Rothery, David A. > 1998 Meteorites: Flux With Time and Impact Effects. Geological Society > Pub House. Hardcover with no DJ as issued. This is a real heavy duty > book with several scientific articles on meteorites but with many more > articles on impacts. 278 pp Original retail $160.00 now only $95.00 > > Graham, A. & Beven, A. & Hutchison, R. 1985. Catalogue of Meteorites > with special reference to those represented in the collection of the > British Museum (Natural History). Fourth edition revised and enlarged. > University of Arizona Press, Tucson, Arizona. Hardcover, 460 pages G- > condition, spine damaged for 2" on top of book, spine cocked, minor > highlighting, soiled edges damaged corners. $45.00. > > Hawkins, Gerald S. 1964 The Physics and Astronomy of Meteors, Comets > and Meteorites. McGraw-Hill Book Co. New York. B & w illust. And > index. Good hardcover, with dj in mylar, Ex lib. with usual artifacts. > 124 pp $5.00 > > Merrill, George P., 1938 Minerals From Earth and Sky, with part one: > The Story of Meteorites. Smithsonian Scientific Series: Volume three. > Hardcover (red cover), 163 pages in part one (331 pages total in book > +42 plates). Very good, previous owners inscription front end paper. > $30.00. > > Nininger, H. H. 1942 A Comet Strikes the Earth. Desert Magazine Press > El Centro CA. Stiff, orange/rust, stapled wrappers 4?" x 6". Includes > an oxidized fragment of nickel-iron meteorite from Meteor Crater, > Arizona. Poor condition with water stains to both covers. Previous > owner's stamp on title page and rear end paper. Correction page pasted > to front end paper. Hard to find this rare 1st edition in any > condition. $20.00 > > Nininger, H. H. 1956 Arizona's Meteorite Crater: Past-Present-Future. > American Meteorite Museum, Sedona. Cloth hard cover (VG) with DJ in > G-(lots of scrapes and chips). Previous owners stamp on fep. 232 pp. > $55.00 I also have a signed copy that is in rough shape(ex library). > I am waiting to receive it but will sell it for only $95.00. Let me > know if you are interested in it and I will contact you once it > arrives. > > Nininger, H.H. 1972 Find a Falling Star. Paul S. Erickson NY. 8vo., > hardcover in VG condition with poor DJ, numerous tears and pieces > missing. 254 pp. $55.00 > > Nininger, H. H. 1933 Our Stone-Pelted Planet. American Meteorite > Museum, Winslow. very good/no dj; blue cloth hardcover; some spots on > cover spine slightly cocked. Signed the by author "Jan 4, 1949 H. H. > Nininger". 237 pp. Rarity R3. $195.00 > > Nininger, H. H. 1952 Out of the Sky An Introduction to Meteoritics. U > of Denver Press, Denver. 8vo., hardcover, VG condition DJ-poor, > numerous tears and chips. Previous owners CA Academy of Sciences > Library book plate front inside cover, embossed seal on title page and > library catalog number on DJ spine. 336 pp. Rarity R2 $75.00 > > Nininger, H. H. 1959 Out of the Sky An Introduction to Meteoritics. > Dover Publications, New York 1959. Paperback. 336 pp. VG++ condition. > One of the best paperbacks condition wise I have ever had. $40.00 > > O'Keefe, John A. ed. 1963 Tektites. University of Chicago Press. 8vo. > dark blue cloth hardcover. VG condition, ex library with usual > artifacts. 228 pp $65.00 > > Saint Gorge's Brotherhood of the Meteorite's Guardian and the History > Society Present, Story of a Meteorite. History of the Ensisheim > meteorite, with distribution insert. Oversized booklet 14 pp. $10.00 > > Wood, John A. 1968 Meteorites and the Origin of Planets. McGraw-Hill, > NY. 12mo, blue cloth hard cover, VG+/No Jacket. Price ink stamped & > handwritten pencil signature to fep. 117 pp. $12.00 > > > Mike > > -- > Mike Jensen > Jensen Meteorites > 16730 E Ada PL > Aurora, CO 80017-3137 > USA > 303-337-4361 > IMCA 4264 > website: www.jensenmeteorites.co > > From mlblood at cox.net Fri Jun 6 20:21:34 2008 From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael L Blood) Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2008 17:21:34 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Gibeon Trade In-Reply-To: Message-ID: OK, It's official - I definitely have Mad Cow disease to rival The case of Denny Crain. SOMEONE wanted an etched Gibeon In a trade (I THINK for a piece of Weston). Please contact me off list, as I got the Gibeon for the Trade - but have forgotten for whom I got it! RSVP Mad Cow Michael From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Fri Jun 6 22:35:14 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 19:35:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Phoenix Scoops First Soil Sample for Laboratory Analysis Message-ID: <200806070235.TAA07672@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2008-101 NASA Mars Lander Scoops First Soil Sample for Laboratory Analysis Jet Propulsion Laboratory June 06, 2008 TUCSON, Ariz. -- NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander made its first dig into Martian soil for science studies and is poised to deliver the scoopful to a laboratory instrument on the lander deck. The instrument will bake and sniff the soil to assess its volatile ingredients, such as water. Commands were received by Phoenix Friday, June 6, for the spacecraft's Robotic Arm to dump the sample into an opened door on the instrument called the Thermal and Evolved-Gas Analyzer, or TEGA. "It's looks like a good sample for us," said Peter Smith, Phoenix principal investigator at the University of Arizona, Tucson. "Over the next few days, and it may be as much as a week, the TEGA instrument will be analyzing this sample." Phoenix's Robotic Arm collected the sample of clumpy, reddish material from the top 2 to 4 centimeters (0.8 to 1.6 inches) of surface material at a site informally named "Baby Bear" on the north side of the lander. In the past week, engineers had used the arm to collect two practice scoops adjacent to Baby Bear and dump those scoopfuls back onto the surface. They have prepared for years with simulations and versions of the arm on Earth. "It's like being on a football team and having a pre-season that lasted five years, and now we're finally playing first game," said Matt Robinson, of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. He is the robotic arm flight software lead for the Phoenix team. The move was calculated to get enough material to be sure to get some delivered into the instrument without inundating the instrument with unnecessary extra soil. "We're ecstatic that we got a quarter to a third of a scoopful," Robinson said. The TEGA instrument will begin analyzing the sample for water and mineral content after it has analyzed a sample of the Martian atmosphere. Water can be bound to minerals, such as clays or carbonates, and it takes more heat to drive the water off some minerals than others. This is how the instrument can identify some minerals in the soil. "We are particularly interested in minerals that are formed or altered by the action of liquid water in the soil," Smith said. The Phoenix mission is led by Smith at the University of Arizona with project management at JPL and development partnership at Lockheed Martin, Denver. International contributions come from the Canadian Space Agency; the University of Neuchatel, Switzerland; the universities of Copenhagen and Aarhus, Denmark; Max Planck Institute, Germany; and the Finnish Meteorological Institute. For more about Phoenix, visit: http://www.nasa.gov/phoenix and http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Media contacts: Guy Webster 818-354-6278 Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. guy.webster at jpl.nasa.gov Dwayne Brown 202-358-1726 NASA Headquarters, Washington dwayne.c.brown at nasa.gov Sara Hammond 520-626-1974 University of Arizona, Tucson shammond at lpl.arizona.edu 2008-101 From sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com Fri Jun 6 22:42:06 2008 From: sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com (Steve Dunklee) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 19:42:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Gibeon Trade In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <166279.6804.qm@web33208.mail.mud.yahoo.com> You sure it wasn't for vaca muerta? Steve --- On Fri, 6/6/08, Michael L Blood wrote: > From: Michael L Blood > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Gibeon Trade > To: "Meteorite List" > Date: Friday, June 6, 2008, 7:21 PM > OK, > It's official - I definitely have Mad Cow > disease to rival > The case of Denny Crain. SOMEONE wanted an etched Gibeon > In a trade (I THINK for a piece of Weston). > Please contact me off list, as I got the Gibeon for > the > Trade - but have forgotten for whom I got it! > RSVP > Mad Cow Michael > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Fri Jun 6 22:42:38 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 19:42:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Arecibo Joins Global Network to Create 6, 000-mile Telescope Message-ID: <200806070242.TAA09080@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> Chronicle Online e-News Arecibo joins global network to create 6,000-mile telescope http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/June08/arecibo.vlbi.html June 6, 2008 By Lauren Gold lg34 at cornell.edu On May 22, Arecibo Observatory in Puerto Rico joined other telescopes in North America, South America, Europe and Africa in simultaneously observing the same targets, simulating a telescope more than 6,800 miles (almost 11,000 kilometers) in diameter. The telescopes are all members of the Express Production Real-time e-VLBI Service (EXPReS) project, and May 22 marked a live demonstration of their first four-continent, real-time, electronic Very Long Baseline Interferometry (e-VLBI) observations. VLBI uses multiple radio telescopes to simultaneously observe the same region of sky -- essentially creating a giant instrument as big as the separation of the dishes. VLBI can generate images of cosmic radio sources with up to 100 times better resolution than images from the best optical telescopes. The results were immediately transmitted to Belgium, where they were shown as part of the 2008 Trans-European Research and Education Networking Association Conference. The Arecibo team called the demonstration a major milestone in the telescope's e-VLBI participation, with a data-streaming rate to the central signal processor at the Joint Institute for VLBI in Europe (JIVE) in the Netherlands four times higher than Arecibo had previously achieved. "These results are very significant for the advance of radio astronomy," said JIVE director Huib Jan van Langevelde. "It shows not only that telescopes of the future can be developed in worldwide collaboration, but that they can also be operated as truly global instruments." EXPReS, funded by the European Commission, aims to connect up to 16 of the world's most sensitive radio telescopes to the JIVE processor to correlate VLBI data in real time. This replaces the traditional VLBI method of shipping data on disk and provides astronomers with observational data in a matter of hours rather than weeks, allowing them to respond rapidly to transient events with follow-up observations. Cornell's National Astronomy and Ionosphere Center manages Arecibo Observatory for the National Science Foundation. -- From darryl at dof3.com Sat Jun 7 10:12:06 2008 From: darryl at dof3.com (Darryl Pitt) Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2008 10:12:06 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Major Meteorite Auction Tomorrow / Macovich @ Heritage Auction Galleries Message-ID: Hi there! Tomorrow the following meteorites are being offered at Heritage Auction Galleries in Dallas. Should you have any questions or wish to be an absentee bidder, contact me at 917-213 -8265 or call Heritage directly at 214-528-3500 The catalog in which these meteorites appear is the most beautiful natural history catalog I've seen in the 14-years of such auctions...and the meteorites aren't too shabby either. ;-) Enjoy..... At the intersection of modern art & science, this core sample of an exotic meteorite contains olivine and peridot. The meteorite from which this specimen was cut was recovered from the Atacama Desert--- the highest desert on Earth--and possesses a British Museum of Natural History provenance. http://www.macovich.com/lots/lot13.html The largest piece of the Moon ever offered at auction and it's also the main mass of the most recently discovered lunar meteorite. http://www.macovich.com/lots/lot10.html Aesthetic meteorites are rare, and this natural sculpture from outer space is one such example. Although it's an abstraction of Michigan (see http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080604/ NEWS06/80604103/1008/NEWS ) , this 75-pound nickel-iron mass originates from the asteroid belt between Mars & Jupiter and fell to Earth in Argentina. http://www.macovich.com/lots/lot02.html At 3/4 tons, this is among the larger iron meteorites known to exist. Also from the asteroid belt...via China. http://www.macovich.com/lots/lot01.html Extraterrestrial tenderizer: the largest portion of the only meteorite to have resulted in a documented fatality. It was a cow....in Venezuela. Steak dinners followed. http://www.macovich.com/lots/lot20.html One of the largest slices of the single most researched meteorite-- and it happens to contain the oldest matter mankind can touch; it's the first material to have condensed from the gaseous nebula from which our solar system formed and is, in fact, true stardust. http://www.macovich.com/lots/lot19.html This extraterrestrial crystal ball is from a meteorite which fell above the Arctic Circle. As a result of grinding the meteorite into a sphere, the internal crystalline structure of an iron meteorite is now dramatized in three dimensions. http://www.macovich.com/lots/lot08.html PREVIEWS: Wednesday June 5th through Sunday June 7th / 10:00a ? 6.00p AUCTION: Sunday June 8th / 1.00p Heritage Auction Galleries / 3500 Maple Avenue / Dallas, Texas 75219 / (214) 528-3500 From michael at spacerocksinc.com Sat Jun 7 11:25:04 2008 From: michael at spacerocksinc.com (Michael Johnson) Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2008 08:25:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 7, 2008 Message-ID: <25180451.509441212852304651.JavaMail.root@mbs6.homesteadmail.com> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/June_7_2008.html From jan.hattenbach at gmx.de Sat Jun 7 12:32:52 2008 From: jan.hattenbach at gmx.de (Jan Hattenbach) Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2008 18:32:52 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Carancas crater - 8 months later Message-ID: <20080607163252.282080@gmx.net> Hello list, last week I visited the impact site in Carancas, Peru for my very last time. I?m heading back to Germany soon... I found the crater covered with a tarpaulin. After more than eight months since the impact it is pretty much eroded, the rims are much shallower than at my last visit on september 26, 2007. The water inside the crater ist approx. 30 cm deep, the crater bottom is completely shoaled. Although local authorities had claimed to preserve the crater in novermber 2007, obviously not very much has happend since then. There are 4 concrete pillars surrounding the crater, approx. 1,5 meters high, that ought to be the basis for a roof that was supposed to protect the crater from the heavy rainfall in the rainseason. However, it looks very much as if these construction works hav been stopped some time ago. As I write in my report, the structure of these pillows looks very similar to to the fragile character of the Carancas meteorites... There have been some diggings in the vicinity of the crater, it was explained to me that they are to redirect the flow of surface water. My guide (who was the same guy that brought me there on my first visit on september 22) told me that sometimes tourists came to Desaguadero to visit the crater. On the way there I was offered some "meteorites". I found that most of them were just dust from mother earth, but among the dust were indeed some tiny meteorite fragments! I took the fragments and left the dust for the other tourists :-) You can find some fotos and my report (in german, but I mentioned the interesting part in this email) on my webblog: http://www.kosmologs.de/kosmo/blog/himmelslichter/chile-2008/2008-06-05/8-monate-danach-besuch-am-meteoritenkrater-von-carancas Best regards fom Peru: Jan -- Das Universum expandiert? Komisch, ich finde immer seltener einem Parkplatz! (Harald Lesch) Psssst! Schon vom neuen GMX MultiMessenger geh?rt? Der kann`s mit allen: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/multimessenger From bristolia at yahoo.com Sat Jun 7 16:54:18 2008 From: bristolia at yahoo.com (Paul) Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2008 13:54:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Comment and reply to Tunguska "crater" paper now available online Message-ID: <427546.42440.qm@web36201.mail.mud.yahoo.com> The comment and reply on the alleged crater associated with the Tunguska impact event are now online and free to download. The original paper is: Gasperini, L., F. Alvisi, G. Biasini, E. Bonatti, G. Longo, M. Pipan, M. Ravaioli and R. Serra, 2008, A possible impact crater for the 1908 Tunguska Event. Terra Nova. vol. 19, no. 4, pp. 245-251 doi: 10.1111/j.1365-3121.2007.00742.x Web page http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1365-3121.2007.00742.x PDF file http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/j.1365-3121.2008.00792.x The comment and reply are: Collins, G. S., N. Artemieva, K. W?nnemann, P. A. Bland, W. U. Reimold, and C. Koeberl, 2008, Evidence that Lake Cheko is not an impact crater. Terra Nova. vol. 20, no. 2, pp. 165?168 doi:10.1111/j.1365-3121.2008.00791.x Web Page http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1365-3121.2008.00791.x PDF file http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/j.1365-3121.2008.00792.x Gasperini, L., Enrico Bonatti, and Giuseppe Longo, 2008, Lake Cheko and the Tunguska Event: impact or non-impact? Terra Nova. vol. 20, no. 2, pp. 169-172, doi: 10.1111/j.1365-3121.2008.00792.x Web Page http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1365-3121.2008.00792.x PDF file http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/j.1365-3121.2008.00792.x Yours, Paul H. From meteoritefinder at gmail.com Sat Jun 7 17:18:20 2008 From: meteoritefinder at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2008 14:18:20 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Centimeter cubes- ad- made by hand from Muonionalusta meteorite-ad In-Reply-To: <8CA9587FA6B8904-A74-F3F@webmail-da03.sysops.aol.com> References: <468bf6050806051751o1aa3bc90nd0f96886035faa25@mail.gmail.com> <8CA9587FA6B8904-A74-F3F@webmail-da03.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <468bf6050806071418p4838903bx650453f372859a56@mail.gmail.com> Hi everyone I forgot to mention that I also put one on Ebay at a starting bid of $5 so if you are looking for a deal you can name your own price. Here is a link to my auctions http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsofindtypeZ15QQuseridZflattoprocksQQfclZ3QQsofocusZbsQQcatrefZC5QQfromZR7QQpfidZ0QQsinceZ30QQfsopZ1QQfsooZ1QQfrppZ50 On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 6:01 PM, wrote: > Hi Mike, > > Wow! > > Sonny > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike Miller > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > Sent: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 5:51 pm > Subject: [meteorite-list] Centimeter cubes- ad- made by hand from > Muonionalusta meteorite-ad > > > > Hi Everyone I have just finished making by hand, one at time some > extremely cool centimeter cubes made from etched Muonionalusta > meteorite. These are not mass produced these are meticulously hand > crafted 1 at a time and as close to perfect as I can make them. Anyone > who knows me knows I am pretty picky when it comes to finishing > meteorites. I am very happy with these they are top of the line. They > are all the same size and the same shape and they all have the same > great etch, so I see no reason to photograph each one. They are all > well....centimeter cubes. Oh yea all that talk about about hand made > to exact tolerances means they are not inexpensive either : ) You can > have a look here > http://www.meteoritefinder.com/centimeter-cubes-for%20-sale.htm > Thanks > > -- > Mike Miller 230 Greenway Dr. Kingman Az 86401 > www.meteoritefinder.com > 928-753-6825 > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > -- Mike Miller 230 Greenway Dr. Kingman Az 86401 www.meteoritefinder.com 928-753-6825 From michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com Sat Jun 7 17:39:32 2008 From: michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com (Michael Gilmer) Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2008 14:39:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Utter and total meteorite "geekjoy"...! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <23676.3576.qm@web58411.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Greetings fellow meteorite-afflicted ladies and gentlemen! It is with great geekjoy that I report the arrival of my very first copy of MAPS! Since I only recently joined, this is the first time I have held a copy in my hands. After briefly scanning through the pages, I am very impressed and can't wait to start digesting the wealth of material contained within. Sure, we have access to online versions of past issues, which I have indulged, but nothing compares to a physical hard copy. I was expecting some along the lines of the Journal Science, which is basically a magazine. MAPS is full-blown book. It must cost the MS a small fortune to print these! I was eager to join the MS, and considered the $110 membership dues to be a fine investment, and this was before I got my copy of MAPS. 2 or 3 copies of MAPS, in my mind, is well the $110 alone! Wow. I'm sorry if I am a gushing nerd. But I am bursting at the seams to sit down and start reading about the StarDust results and other papers within. For this meteorite nut, getting copies of MAPS in the mail is going to be true "GEEKJOY". :) My hats off to the Meteoritical Society for offering this fine publication. I look forward to receiving copies of this for the rest of my natural lifespan. :) Regards and clear falling skies, MikeG ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale .......................................................... From almitt at kconline.com Sat Jun 7 18:16:52 2008 From: almitt at kconline.com (AL Mitterling) Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2008 18:16:52 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Ebay Auctions Ending Soon Message-ID: <484B08D4.8090502@kconline.com> Greetings, I have some ebay auctions ending in a few hours from now as well as a few days. Ending in a few days will be one super nice crusted Lost City 5.28 grams, a smaller Lost City with no crust about 2 grams, a nice fresh Allende end piece and a nice Haxtun, Colorado H/L4 specimen 5.8 grams. I also have a larger Lost City 18 gram slice with crust that is available if anyone is interested in that. You can see my auctions here: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZalmittmet that are still going. Thank you for your time. --AL Mitterling From MoritzKarl at t-online.de Sat Jun 7 19:14:14 2008 From: MoritzKarl at t-online.de (MoritzKarl at t-online.de) Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2008 01:14:14 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: ebay auctions ending Message-ID: <1K57by-2J3HSS0@fwd33.aul.t-online.de> Hi List, I have several ebay auctions ending in less than 24 hours. Those auctions include: - Dar al Gani 400 - beautiful lunar slice - NR ! - Estherville partslice - Mundrabilla endpiece - Carancas frag - beautiful partslice of the hard to find Kerilis meteorite and many more goodies. All of the auctions are still way below market value. Make sure to take a look. Find a full recap here: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZmeteoriten or here: http://www.m3t3orites.com/ebay.php Thank you for looking and good luck in case you are bidding. Regards Moritz Karl http://www.m3t3orites.com Germany IMCA: 0818 From meteoritemall at yahoo.com Sun Jun 8 00:02:05 2008 From: meteoritemall at yahoo.com (Ruben Garcia) Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2008 21:02:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Wanna Link to My Site? www.Mr-Meteorite.com Message-ID: <924567.59152.qm@web32506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi all, I just finished my "Other Cool Links" page. http://www.mr-meteorite.com/othercoollinks.htm Anyone with a meteorite related web site wanna trade links with me? If so just let me know off list. So far I have Meteorite Magazine, Meteorite-Times, Meteorite Watch, and Meteorite Finder. I seem to get a fair number of hits - mostly due to my videos I think. I don't know if that will translate into more hits for you but it couldn't hurt.....right? Ruben Garcia Phoenix, Arizona http://www.mr-meteorite.com From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Sun Jun 8 07:06:31 2008 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2008 07:06:31 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 8, 2008 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/June_8_2008.html **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002) From info at niger-meteorite-recon.de Sun Jun 8 13:48:52 2008 From: info at niger-meteorite-recon.de (Dr. Svend Buhl) Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2008 19:48:52 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite HDR photography References: Message-ID: <001d01c8c98f$ea8f1110$6401a8c0@HOME> Some time ago there was a thread on this list regarding High Dynamic Range Imaging in the genre of meteorite photography. I have recently experimented a little with this matter and found the concept quite helpful when trying to picture a certain meteorite as the human eye would see it. My results might not yet be sufficient for the Pulitzer Prize, but as long as they don't add a "best meteorite photo" category I won't consider to run for it anyway. I have compiled a few images on my website: http://www.niger-meteorite-recon.de/en/meteoriten_verkauf.htm cheers Svend www.meteorite-recon.com From daistiho at hotmail.com Sun Jun 8 15:38:55 2008 From: daistiho at hotmail.com (tracy latimer) Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2008 19:38:55 +0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] FW: Comment and reply to Tunguska "crater" paper now available online In-Reply-To: <427546.42440.qm@web36201.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <427546.42440.qm@web36201.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I wonder if this paper and associated comments might deserve a revisit in light of what happened at the Carancas impact site. I wasn't able to determine if any of the findings from that crater were used to examine this potential crater as far as the mechanics of producing it -- the Carancas event certainly turned the mechanics of stony body hypervelocity impacts on its ear! BTW, I was having trouble downloading the PDF versions of the papers, but was easily able to download the web page versions. All the PDFs came up as "error -- this file is damaged and cannot be repaired." Probably my overzealous NoScript program making sure they weren't malicious. All in all, fascinating reading, and thank you for posting it. Best! Tracy Latimer > Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2008 13:54:18 -0700 > From: bristolia at yahoo.com > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: [meteorite-list] Comment and reply to Tunguska "crater" paper now available online > _________________________________________________________________ Now you can invite friends from Facebook and other groups to join you on Windows Live? Messenger. Add now. https://www.invite2messenger.net/im/?source=TXT_EML_WLH_AddNow_Now From info at niger-meteorite-recon.de Sun Jun 8 15:50:55 2008 From: info at niger-meteorite-recon.de (Dr. Svend Buhl) Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2008 21:50:55 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite HDR photography References: <20080608111604.ccf027eaf36b890e8e0da6661c312850.1c69403ac3.wbe@email.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <003201c8c9a0$f74454e0$6401a8c0@HOME> thanks for your kind reply Dave. It is not so much a question of display size but rather of range. Our computer screens and printers are for the most part 8 bit devices. The true HDR image is a 32bit file. To display HDR images on a computer screen it has to be compressed. That is where a technique named tone mapping comes into use. Tone mapping preserves the key image details and color while approximating the shadows and highlights found in the original HDR image. At least that is the theory. Unfortunately in the real world a good part of quality is lost along the way. Svend www.meteorite-recon.com ----- Original Message ----- From: dave at fallingrocks.com To: Dr. Svend Buhl Cc: Meteorite Mailing List Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2008 8:16 PM Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Meteorite HDR photography Svend & All, Ausgezeichnet! That really is fantastic, Svend. At what resolution/size does a monitor begin to degrade the enhanced quality of these images? Tchus, Dave -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite HDR photography From: "Dr. Svend Buhl" Date: Sun, June 08, 2008 1:48 pm To: "Meteorite Mailing List" Some time ago there was a thread on this list regarding High Dynamic Range Imaging in the genre of meteorite photography. I have recently experimented a little with this matter and found the concept quite helpful when trying to picture a certain meteorite as the human eye would see it. My results might not yet be sufficient for the Pulitzer Prize, but as long as they don't add a "best meteorite photo" category I won't consider to run for it anyway. I have compiled a few images on my website: http://www.niger-meteorite-recon.de/en/meteoriten_verkauf.htm cheers Svend www.meteorite-recon.com ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mexicodoug at aim.com Sun Jun 8 17:58:45 2008 From: mexicodoug at aim.com (mexicodoug at aim.com) Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2008 17:58:45 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: TWO BIG BEAUTIES Message-ID: <8CA97C9F4F0C9B8-12A4-1A33@WEBMAIL-MB06.sysops.aol.com> Dear Listees, especially those who want to buy or look for meteoritical treasures, I really need to buy a new meteorite, so these treasures must go thanks to the fourth law of my universe (law of conservation of cash): A HUGE special green achondrite A big individual fusion crusted Carbonaceous Chondrite A very pretty half gram slice of a Lunar with great surface area and detail Kindly view this link for three resonably priced superb pieces from three great localities - that are available to be mailed to you tomorrow morning: http://www.diogenite.com/tata55g.htm If you want to see the images larger, just save them by right clicking on your hard drive and open them with your own image viewer and they will be much larger. Best wishes, Doug From JPBrockets at aol.com Sun Jun 8 19:17:08 2008 From: JPBrockets at aol.com (JPBrockets at aol.com) Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2008 19:17:08 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad - 5 different METEORITE Magazine Issues Message-ID: Dear List: For those possibly interested in some back issues of METEORITE, please see the following. http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ25QQfsooZ1QQfsopZ2QQsassZjpbrockets November 2003 November 2001 May 2001 February 2001 November 2000 Thanks. Juris jpbrockets at aol.com **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002) From m_graul at yahoo.de Mon Jun 9 05:11:32 2008 From: m_graul at yahoo.de (Mirko Graul) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 09:11:32 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: nice - large 328g Sikhote Alin slice ending on ebay Message-ID: <146584.41092.qm@web26303.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Hello List, in the next hours ending my nice 328g Sikhote Alin slice on ebay. Here the link: http://cgi.ebay.com/Meteorite-SIKHOTE-ALIN-iron-large-etched-slice-328g_W0QQitemZ300230271663QQihZ020QQcategoryZ3239QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem many thanks Mirko Mirko Graul Meteorite Quittenring.4 16321 Bernau GERMANY Phone: 0049-1724105015 E-Mail: m_graul at yahoo.de IMCA-Member: 2113 (International Meteorite Collectors Association) Web: www.meteorite-mirko.de __________________________________________________________ Gesendet von Yahoo! Mail. Dem pfiffigeren Posteingang. http://de.overview.mail.yahoo.com From bristolia at yahoo.com Mon Jun 9 09:30:49 2008 From: bristolia at yahoo.com (Paul) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 06:30:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] =?utf-8?q?Correct_URLS_to_PDF_files_of_Tunguska_?= =?utf-8?b?4oCcY3JhdGVy4oCdIHBhcGVycw==?= Message-ID: <542306.76939.qm@web36201.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In my initial post I have the wrong URLs for some of the papers. which Listed in it. The old post was at: http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/meteorite-list/2008-June/045010.html The correct URLs for the PDF files are: Gasperini, L., F. Alvisi, G. Biasini, E. Bonatti, G. Longo, M. Pipan, M. Ravaioli and R. Serra, 2008, A possible impact crater for the 1908 Tunguska Event. Terra Nova. vol. 19, no. 4, pp. 245-251 doi: 10.1111/j.1365-3121.2007.00742.x Correct PDF file http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/j.1365-3121.2007.00742.x The comment and reply are: Collins, G. S., N. Artemieva, K. W?nnemann, P. A. Bland, W. U. Reimold, and C. Koeberl, 2008, Evidence that Lake Cheko is not an impact crater. Terra Nova. vol. 20, no. 2, pp. 165?168 doi:10.1111/j.1365-3121.2008.00791.x Correct PDF file http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/j.1365-3121.2008.00791.x Gasperini, L., Enrico Bonatti, and Giuseppe Longo, 2008, Lake Cheko and the Tunguska Event: impact or non-impact? Terra Nova. vol. 20, no. 2, pp. 169-172, doi: 10.1111/j.1365-3121.2008.00792.x Correct PDF file http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/j.1365-3121.2008.00792.x Yours, Paul H. From star-bits at tx.rr.com Mon Jun 9 11:58:01 2008 From: star-bits at tx.rr.com (star-bits at tx.rr.com) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 11:58:01 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad - eBay auctions closing shortly Message-ID: <18616016.1906601213027081641.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web19-z02> Greetings all I have a number of auctions closing shortly including Allende Bassikounou 100% crusted still at $1/gm Several oriented Sikhote-alin individuals one still at $0.99 Mars shergottite crusted individuals less than $175/gm diogenite polymict breccia at 10% of what it is worth. Oum Dreyga 141 grams 98% crusted currently less than $0.80/gm Morasko with a nice iinclusion at $1/gm Gao 611 gram individual less than $0.30/gm Tagish Lake at less than $500/gm mundrabilla 2 21gram pieces still at $0.99 Tatahouine with a shattercone still at $5.50/gm vigarano, carancas, NWA 1930 LL3, and others . See them all and others at -- Eric Olson 7682 Firethorn Dr Fayetteville, NC 28311 http://www.star-bits.com From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Mon Jun 9 14:48:00 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 11:48:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander Checking Soil Properties Message-ID: <200806091848.LAA22615@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2008-102 NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander Checking Soil Properties Jet Propulsion Laboratory June 07, 2008 TUCSON, Ariz. -- The arm of NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander released a handful of clumpy Martian soil onto a screened opening of a laboratory instrument on the spacecraft Friday, but the instrument did not confirm that any of the sample passed through the screen. Engineers and scientists on the Phoenix team assembled at the University of Arizona are determining the best approach to get some of that material into the instrument. Meanwhile, the team has developed commands for the spacecraft to use cameras and the Robotic Arm on Saturday to study how strongly the soil from the top layer of the surface clings together into clumps. Images taken Friday show soil resting on the screen over an open sample-delivery door of Phoenix's Thermal and Evolved-Gas Analyzer, or TEGA, an instrument for identifying some key ingredients. The screen is designed to let through particles up to one-millimeter (0.04 inch) across while keeping out larger particles, in order to prevent clogging a funnel pathway to a tiny oven inside. An infrared beam crossing the pathway checks whether particles are entering the instrument and breaking the beam. The researchers have not yet determined why none of the sample appears to have gotten past the screen, but they have begun proposing possibilities. "I think it's the cloddiness of the soil and not having enough fine granular material," said Ray Arvidson of Washington University in St. Louis, the Phoenix team's science lead for Saturday and digging czar for the mission. "In the future, we may prepare the soil by pushing down on the surface with the arm before scooping up the material to break it up, then sprinkle a smaller amount over the door," he said. Another strategy under consideration is to use mechanical shakers inside the TEGA instrument differently than the five minutes of shaking that was part of the sample-receiving process on Friday. No activities for the instrument are planned for Saturday, while the team refines plans for diagnostic tests. Phoenix's planned activities for Saturday include horizontally extending a trench where the lander dug two practice scoops earlier this week, and taking additional images of a small pile of soil that was scooped up and dropped onto the surface during the second of those practice digs. "We are hoping to learn more about the soil's physical properties at this site," Arvidson said. "It may be more cohesive than what we have seen at earlier Mars landing sites." The Phoenix mission is led by Peter Smith at the University of Arizona with project management at JPL and development partnership at Lockheed Martin, Denver. International contributions come from the Canadian Space Agency; the University of Neuchatel, Switzerland; the universities of Copenhagen and Aarhus, Denmark; Max Planck Institute, Germany; and the Finnish Meteorological Institute. For more about Phoenix, visit: http://www.nasa.gov/phoenix and http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Media contacts: Guy Webster 818-354-6278 Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. guy.webster at jpl.nasa.gov Dwayne Brown 202-358-1726 NASA Headquarters, Washington dwayne.c.brown at nasa.gov Sara Hammond 520-626-1974 University of Arizona, Tucson shammond at lpl.arizona.edu 2008-102 From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Mon Jun 9 15:07:55 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 12:07:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Phoenix Sifts for Samples, Continues Imaging Landing Site Message-ID: <200806091907.MAA28106@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2008-102a Phoenix Sifts for Samples, Continues Imaging Landing Site Jet Propulsion Laboratory June 08, 2008 On Sunday, Sol 14 of NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander mission, mechanical shakers inside the Thermal and Evolved-Gas Analyzer will attempt to loosen clumped soils on the device's screens to allow material to fall into the oven for analysis later in the week. The commands for this shaking action were to be sent to the spacecraft late morning Sunday, Pacific Daylight Time, and results will be reported Monday, June 9. Also on Sol 14, the robotic arm will acquire a sample from the "Baby Bear" site intended for the MECA microscopy station. Delivery of that sample will occur no earlier than Sol 16, after testing is done to sprinkle the sample. A camera on Phoenix continues to image the area close to the spacecraft to extend scientists' knowledge of the landing area and work sites. Phoenix's Robotic Arm Camera on Saturday took additional images of areas close to and under the lander unreachable by the larger Surface Stereo Imager (SSI), said Ray Arvidson of Washington University in St. Louis, Phoenix co-investigator for the Robotic Arm. "We are mapping with the Robotic Arm Camera where the SSI can't see to extend our knowledge of the site and to see details of the polygon structures of the near field, close to the lander," Arvidson said. An image from the Robotic Arm Camera taken Saturday and other raw images are at: http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/images.php?gID=3402&cID=51 On May 30, images taken under the lander showed the descent thrusters had cleared dirt from a smooth patch of either ice or rock. That area has been informally named "Snow Queen." Mission scientists continue to examine that feature. The Phoenix mission is led by Peter Smith at the University of Arizona with project management at JPL and development partnership at Lockheed Martin, Denver. International contributions come from the Canadian Space Agency; the University of Neuchatel, Switzerland; the universities of Copenhagen and Aarhus, Denmark; Max Planck Institute, Germany; and the Finnish Meteorological Institute. For more about Phoenix, visit: http://www.nasa.gov/phoenix and http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu . ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Media contacts: Guy Webster 818-354-6278 Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. guy.webster at jpl.nasa.gov Dwayne Brown 202-358-1726 NASA Headquarters, Washington dwayne.c.brown at nasa.gov Sara Hammond 520-626-1974 University of Arizona, Tucson shammond at lpl.arizona.edu From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Mon Jun 9 18:13:53 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 15:13:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander Testing Sprinkle Technique Message-ID: <200806092213.PAA13579@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> FROM: Lori Stiles (520-360-0574; lstiles at u.arizona.edu) NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander Testing Sprinkle Technique University of Arizona June 9, 2008 TUCSON, Ariz. -- Engineers operating the Robotic Arm on NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander are testing a revised method for delivering soil samples to laboratory instruments on Phoenix's deck now that researchers appreciate how clumpy the soil is at the landing site. "We're a little surprised at how much this material is clumping together when we dig into it," said Doug Ming a Phoenix science team member from NASA's Johnson Space Center, Houston. The soil's physical properties are proving to be a challenge for getting a sample intended for one instrument to pass through a screen over a delivery opening.The instrument is the Thermal and Evolved-Gas Anaylzer, or TEGA, designed to bake and sniff samples to identify some key ingredients. The analyzer vibrated the screen for 20 minutes on Sunday but detected only a few particles getting through the screen, not enough to fill the tiny oven below. "We are going to try vibrating it one more time, and if that doesn't work, it is likely we will use our new, revised delivery method on another thermal analyzer cell," said William Boynton of the University of Arizona, lead scientist for the instrument. The arm delivered the first sample to TEGA on Friday by turning the scoop over to release its contents. The revised delivery method, which Phoenix is testing for the first time today, will hold the scoop at an angle above the delivery target and sprinkle out a small amount of the sample by vibrating the scoop. The vibration comes from running a motorized rasp on the bottom of the scoop. Phoenix used the arm Sunday to collect a soil sample for the spacecraft's Optical Microscope. Today's plans include a practice of the sprinkle technique, using a small amount of soil from the sample collected Sunday. If that goes well, the Phoenix team assembled at the University of Arizona plans to sprinkle material from the same scoopful onto the microscope later this week. The Phoenix mission is led by Peter Smith at the University of Arizona with project management at JPL and development partnership at Lockheed Martin, Denver. International contributions come from the Canadian Space Agency; the University of Neuchatel, Switzerland; the universities of Copenhagen and Aarhus, Denmark; Max Planck Institute, Germany; and the Finnish Meteorological Institute. WEBLINKS: Phoenix Mars Mission, UA - http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu Phoenix Mars Mission, NASA - http://www.nasa.gov/phoenix MEDIA CONTACTS: Guy Webster, Jet Propulsion Laboratory (818-354-5011; guy.webster at jpl.nasa.gov) Sara Hammond, University of Arizona (520-626-1974; shammond at lpl.arizona.edu) Dwayne Brown, NASA Headquarters (202-358-1726; dwayne.c.brown at nasa.gov) From mmurray at montrose.net Mon Jun 9 20:45:59 2008 From: mmurray at montrose.net (Michael Murray) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 18:45:59 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: TWO BIG BEAUTIES In-Reply-To: <8CA97C9F4F0C9B8-12A4-1A33@WEBMAIL-MB06.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CA97C9F4F0C9B8-12A4-1A33@WEBMAIL-MB06.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <48DC38BB-239A-4322-A06C-B9E3E792840C@montrose.net> Wow, where is the lady that wanted to start her own collection. A prize piece of Allende and a beautiful big Tatahouine. Can't do much better than that. Mike On Jun 8, 2008, at 3:58 PM, mexicodoug at aim.com wrote: > Dear Listees, especially those who want to buy or look for > meteoritical treasures, > > I really need to buy a new meteorite, so these treasures must go > thanks to the fourth law of my universe (law of conservation of cash): > > A HUGE special green achondrite > A big individual fusion crusted Carbonaceous Chondrite > A very pretty half gram slice of a Lunar with great surface area > and detail > > Kindly view this link for three resonably priced superb pieces from > three great localities - that are available to be mailed to you > tomorrow morning: > > http://www.diogenite.com/tata55g.htm > > If you want to see the images larger, just save them by right > clicking on your hard drive and open them with your own image > viewer and they will be much larger. > > Best wishes, > Doug > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mikewren at gilanet.com Tue Jun 10 00:32:16 2008 From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 22:32:16 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Auctions Ending This Week and Some SUPER RARE Meteorites in my store... You Got To Check This One Out! Message-ID: <200806092234865.SM00636@yourfsyly0jtwn> Hello Everyone, Going into slow mode here, at least for the summer. I have a surprise rarity in my ebay store., auctions ending this Weds and well, that is it! Go to: http://stores.ebay.com/VOYAGE-BOTANICA-NATURAL-HISTORY Thanks and Best Wishes Michael Cottingham From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Tue Jun 10 01:03:09 2008 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 22:03:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: 60 meteorites ending on ebay, many at one cent! Message-ID: <362704.93369.qm@web33101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Check out these spectacular pieces ending on ebay tonight, some nice goodies, many still at or near one cent! Somce examples include these nice pieces, but be sure to see everything. There are more than 50 auctions, the links below are just a taste. See them all and pick up some great deals. Beautiful piece of Brenham Pallasite, 311 grams, translucent olivines!http://cgi.ebay.com/_W0QQitemZ350066973793 500 grams of broken Libyan Desert Glass pieces, great for dealers! http://cgi.ebay.com/_W0QQitemZ180250066307 Wonderful flight-oriented Sikhote-Alin specimen!http://cgi.ebay.com/_W0QQitemZ140238607531 Wonderful flight-oriented Gao individual. http://cgi.ebay.com/_W0QQitemZ140238605060 This will be my last set of auctions for a month, as I will be in France and Germany for the June shows. See all available items at the links below, there are way too many to list here. http://members.ebay.com/ws2/eBayISAPI.dll? viewUserPage&userid=meteoritehunters http://members.ebay.com/ws2/eBayISAPI.dll? ViewUserPage&userid=meteorite-hunter Thanks Mike Farmer From MeteorHntr at aol.com Tue Jun 10 02:50:24 2008 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 02:50:24 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Auction Results? Message-ID: Hey Guys, Anyone with the results of the Auction this last weekend? All I saw in the news was that Michigan sold for $20,000, and the 3/4 ton Nantan went for $90,000. Steve Arnold #1 **************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best 2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102) From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com Tue Jun 10 10:30:25 2008 From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 07:30:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] nwa 099 Message-ID: <622318.18096.qm@web57809.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi list.Just a quick note.I am looking for an individual of NWA 099.I saw on mike farmers ebay list he has a sphere of it,but i do not collect sphere's.So I was remembering that along time ago I was asking for a individual of nwa 099.100 to 300 grams.Let me know offlist please. Steve R.Arnold,chicago,Ill,Usa!! ???? The Asteroid Belt! ??? http://chicagometeorites.net/ ??? Collecting Meteorites since 06/19/1999 ??? Ebay I.D. Illinoismeteorites From m_graul at yahoo.de Tue Jun 10 16:13:15 2008 From: m_graul at yahoo.de (Mirko Graul) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 20:13:15 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: perfect etched large full slice of Seymchan near 2.5 kilos Message-ID: <56443.91173.qm@web26301.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Hello List, in the next 24 hours ending my nice 2425g Seymchan full slice on ebay. Here the link: http://cgi.ebay.com/Meteorite-SEYMCHAN-perfect-etched-full-slice-2425g_W0QQitemZ290236315602QQihZ019QQcategoryZ3239QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem many thanks Mirko Mirko Graul Meteorite Quittenring.4 16321 Bernau GERMANY Phone: 0049-1724105015 E-Mail: m_graul at yahoo.de IMCA-Member: 2113 (International Meteorite Collectors Association) Web: www.meteorite-mirko.de __________________________________________________________ Gesendet von Yahoo! Mail. Dem pfiffigeren Posteingang. http://de.overview.mail.yahoo.com From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Tue Jun 10 18:34:44 2008 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 00:34:44 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] (AD) Chladni's Heirs New Website - (test stage) Message-ID: <012701c8cb4a$2ee299c0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Dear list, Finally, finally we found the time to create a website. It is still in statu nascendi, textes have to be corrected and improved, some divisions have still to be filled (about meteorites, accessories), but the scaffolding is put and the specimens already inserted are real! and for sale, except the new C3). http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/ In aftermath we'll fill up the catalogue with more and exciting meteorites and then, the pages will be permanently kept updated. Best! Martin & Stefan Chladni's Heirs Munich -Berlin Fine Meteorites for Science & Collectors http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/ From eric at meteoritewatch.com Tue Jun 10 19:59:59 2008 From: eric at meteoritewatch.com (Eric Wichman) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 16:59:59 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] MW Forum Update - Link has changed... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <484F157F.2060402@meteoritewatch.com> Hi Everyone, Just a quick update and announcement for all of you guys and gals who are current members of my Meteorite Watch forum. The old website link: www.meteoritewatch.com/phpBB3 no longer works and has been changed. I've moved the whole forum to the main page of my site. The new link is here: http://www.meteoritewatch.com/ No changes have been made to member usernames so your current login information should work with no problems. Current members will still have access to the forum via the main home page Old posts are still available and have not been deleted. Added Meteorite Links Forum Added Meteorite Videos Forum Updated Dealer Forum If you have any trouble logging in please let me know off-list via email. Also make sure your avatars are working. I had a server path problem and think I have it fixed so let me know if your member avatar does not display properly. For those of you who are not members you're more than welcome to sign up and post. Thanks, Eric Wichman www.MeteoriteWatch.com www.MeteoritesUSA.com From entropydave at ntlworld.com Wed Jun 11 03:16:26 2008 From: entropydave at ntlworld.com (Dave Harris) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 08:16:26 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - 0.7g Bencubbin polished slice for sale Message-ID: <682F60E853BC43AAAA62163AA02AACF9@pitstoppc> Hullo, I have a 0.7g slice of the rare class type Bencubbin, beautifully polished on both sides and a lovely 50-50 mix of metal and rock http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/entropydave2001/Bencubbin07g/photo#5210518963242194354 If interested please email me offers! Paypal only for non-UK interestees! thanks! dave IMCA #0092 Sec.BIMS. www.bimsociety.org From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Wed Jun 11 10:13:17 2008 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 10:13:17 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 11, 2008 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/June_11_2008.html **************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best 2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102) From ebay at biol.uw.edu.pl Wed Jun 11 11:23:32 2008 From: ebay at biol.uw.edu.pl (eBay Woreczko Jan & M.J.W.) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 17:23:32 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] You are searching for meteorites? References: Message-ID: <00d201c8cbd7$1ed594a0$0e02a8c0@zeus> Ha You are searching for meteorites? Now it is very simple ! http://www.woreczko.pl/meteorites/sellers/search/search.php I'm inviting to test ;o) http://www.woreczko.pl/meteorites/sellers/search/search.php?zoom_query=sikhote*&zoom_per_page=16&zoom_and=1&zoom_sort=0 Kind Regards Woreczko www.woreczko.pl This email was Anti Virus checked by Astaro Security Gateway. From cynapse at charter.net Wed Jun 11 11:48:17 2008 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 11:48:17 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ebay caution! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I think maybe I've picked up a bit of spyware (that my programs can't identify) and want to warn people in case it happens to them. When I go to sign in on Ebay, after I enter my username and password, THIS screen pops up: http://webpages.charter.net/garrison6328/eBayISAPI.pdf it has spelling and grammar errors, and is asking for far more information than is reasonable. And it only shows up when I try to log in from Internet Explorer, not Mozilla. So watch out! From stm at bellsouth.net Wed Jun 11 12:03:32 2008 From: stm at bellsouth.net (Sean T. Murray) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 12:03:32 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ebay caution! References: Message-ID: Make sure to report that to eBay: http://pages.ebay.com/securitycenter/stop_spoof_websites.html Also, if you do not have these installed on your PC, you should get them. Between the two of them they catch most all sypware and trojan horse types of programs. You still should have your virus protection program installed - these are freeware applications that work great to catch the rest of the garbage... Spybot Search & Destroy: http://www.safer-networking.org/index2.html AdAware: http://lavasoft.com/ I've used both of them for years - they work great. If you have never run these before, you'll be shocked at how many things they find. Sean. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darren Garrison" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 11:48 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Ebay caution! >I think maybe I've picked up a bit of spyware (that my programs can't >identify) > and want to warn people in case it happens to them. When I go to sign in > on > Ebay, after I enter my username and password, THIS screen pops up: > > http://webpages.charter.net/garrison6328/eBayISAPI.pdf > > it has spelling and grammar errors, and is asking for far more information > than > is reasonable. And it only shows up when I try to log in from Internet > Explorer, not Mozilla. So watch out! > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From cynapse at charter.net Wed Jun 11 12:21:05 2008 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 12:21:05 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ebay caution! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Jun 2008 12:03:32 -0400, you wrote: >if you do not have these installed on your PC, you should get them. Between >the two of them they catch most all sypware and trojan horse types of >programs. I have both (they were the "programs that couldn't identify" that I mentioned. Nada. I did some googling for part of the message text, and other people are seein the problem, too: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=648027 http://www.veggieboards.com/boards/showthread.php?p=1963665 http://www.gss.co.uk/news/article/3961/go From wahlperry at aol.com Wed Jun 11 13:22:32 2008 From: wahlperry at aol.com (wahlperry at aol.com) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 13:22:32 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Provisional Numbers Message-ID: <8CA99FEDE318783-16C0-18D0@FWM-M28.sysops.aol.com> Hi , Would anyone know who is taking care of Provisional numbers? Thanks, Sonny From cynapse at charter.net Wed Jun 11 15:58:05 2008 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 15:58:05 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] And the winner is-- Plutoid! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/080611-plutoid-planets.html Pluto Now Called a Plutoid By Robert Roy Britt Senior Science Writer posted: 11 June 2008 10:30 am ET Updated 2:00 p.m. ET Pluto's years-long identity crisis just got more complex today. The International Astronomical Union has decided on the term "plutoid" as a name for Pluto and other objects that just two years ago were redefined as "dwarf planets." The surprise decision is unlikely to stem ongoing controversy and confusion, astronomers say. Sidestepping concerns of many astronomers worldwide, the IAU's decision, at a meeting of its Executive Committee in Oslo, comes almost two years after it stripped Pluto of its planethood and introduced the term "dwarf planets" for Pluto and other small round objects that often travel highly elliptical paths around the sun in the far reaches of the solar system. "Most of the people in astronomy and planetary science community had no idea this was going to come out," said Hal Weaver of the Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory. Weaver called the new definition "sort of outdated, outmoded, archaic." A meeting in August at the Applied Physics Laboratory is slated to debate the entire topic of defining planets. Meanwhile, other astronomers said the new definition needed more definition or that it might simply not be used. "This seems like an unattractive term and an unnecessary one to me," said David Morrison, an astronomer at NASA's Ames Research Center who, in 2006, said the IAU's actions on Pluto have created major rifts among astronomers. The new definition The name plutoid was proposed by the members of the IAU Committee on Small Body Nomenclature (CSBN), accepted by the Board of Division III and by the IAU Working Group for Planetary System Nomenclature (WGPSN), and approved by the IAU Executive Committee at its recent meeting in Oslo, according to a statement released today. Here's the official new definition: "Plutoids are celestial bodies in orbit around the sun at a distance greater than that of Neptune that have sufficient mass for their self-gravity to overcome rigid body forces so that they assume a hydrostatic equilibrium (near-spherical) shape, and that have not cleared the neighborhood around their orbit." In short: small round things beyond Neptune that orbit the sun and have lots of rocky neighbors. The two known and named plutoids are Pluto and Eris, the IAU stated. The organization expects more plutoids will be found. "Rather than resistance to 'plutoid,' I think we'll just be hearing groans," said Stephen J. Kortenkamp, senior scientist at the Planetary Science Institute in Tucson. Controversy continues One IAU leader recognizes it is adding to an ongoing controversy. The IAU has been responsible for naming planetary bodies and their satellites since the early 1900s. Its decision in 2006 to demote Pluto was highly controversial, with some astronomers saying simply that they would not heed it and questioning the IAU's validity as a governing body. "The IAU is a democratic organization, thus open to comments and criticism of any kind," IAU General Secretary Karel A. van der Hucht told SPACE.com by email today. "Given the history of the issue, we will probably never reach a complete consensus." Van der Hucht said the new designation is not a further demotion for the once-favorite planet of grade-school children: "Pluto is now the prototype of a very interesting category of outer solar system bodies." IAU Division III President Edward L.G. Bowell of the Lowell Observatory said the ruling stems from unfinished business from the forging of a planet definition in 2006. Bowell said there is no agreed-upon way to define "dwarf planet" yet, so "officers of the IAU thought it would be a good idea to adopt alternative criteria that would at least allow those large bodies to be named as though they were dwarf planets." It remains to be seen whether astronomers will use the new term. "My guess is that no one is going to much use this term, though perhaps I'm wrong," said Caltech astronomer Mike Brown, who has led the discovery of several objects in the outer solar system, including Eris. "But I don't think that this will be because it is controversial, just not particularly necessary." Brown was unaware of the new definition until the IAU announced it today. "Back when the term 'pluton' was nixed they said they would come up with another one," Brown said. "So I guess they finally did." Reactions were not all negative, however. "It seems like a reasonable decision to me, and given the excitement generated by New Horizons [a NASA probe headed for Pluto], it's in everyone's interest to favor the largest Kuiper belt objects with their own categorical designation," said Gregory Laughlin, a University of California, Santa Cruz extrasolar planet researcher. "The only fly in the ointment that I can envision is if a plutoid larger, than, say, Mars is detected," Laughlin points out. "In that case, I think we'd see a big flare-up of the what-is-a-planet debate." More debate coming The dwarf planet Ceres (which used to be called an asteroid, and before that was called a planet!) is not a plutoid as it is located in the asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter, according to the IAU. Current scientific knowledge lends credence to the belief that Ceres is the only object of its kind, the IAU stated. Therefore, a separate category of Ceres-like dwarf planets will not be proposed at this time, the reasoning goes. Weaver, the Johns Hopkins researcher, has helped organized a meeting, planned earlier this year for Aug. 14-16 at Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory, that aims to bring astronomers of varying viewpoints together to discuss the controversy. "We're not trying to slam the IAU, it's just that we also don't want to lead people to the idea that there's a handful of people who decide where science should go," Weaver said today. The meeting is designed to "address this question in terms of a scientific conference." He said no votes will be taken at the meeting. Rather, it's a time to "sit back and take stock of everything we've learned in the past couple of decades." The term plutoid joins a host of other odd words -- plutinos, centaurs, cubewanos and EKOs -- that astronomers have conjured in recent years to define objects in the outer solar system, whose appearance seems to grow more complex every year. Kortenkamp wonders if "plutoid" isn't just one more confusing term in the cosmic lexicon. "So Pluto is a Kuiper belt object, a plutino (the unofficial but nearly universally accepted name for objects in the 2:3 resonance with Neptune), a dwarf planet, and now also a plutoid?" he said. "If the IAU is trying to make things more clear, I think it needs to try again. This is just another layer of confusion that will feed the "pluto is a planet" camp at the [Johns Hopkings] meeting." Kortenkamp also thinks the new defiinition leaves Ceres up in the air: "And this "-oid" classification doesn't apply to Ceres?" he asks. "Okay, so does that means we continue calling Ceres an ASTERoid?" Asked if Ceres remains a dwarf planet and is not an asteroid, Bowell, the IAU official, said: "I think so!" From cynapse at charter.net Wed Jun 11 16:09:23 2008 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 16:09:23 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] No problem, they'll land at night In-Reply-To: <200806092234865.SM00636@yourfsyly0jtwn> References: <200806092234865.SM00636@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: <54c054t8kvm8ofj8oc3il1iogghra3eqnv@4ax.com> http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2008/10jun_solarprobe.htm?list1065474 June 10, 2008: For more than 400 years, astronomers have studied the sun from afar. Now NASA has decided to go there. "We are going to visit a living, breathing star for the first time," says program scientist Lika Guhathakurta of NASA Headquarters. "This is an unexplored region of the solar system and the possibilities for discovery are off the charts." Right: An artist's concept of Solar Probe Plus. [more] The name of the mission is Solar Probe+ (pronounced "Solar Probe plus"). It's a heat-resistant spacecraft designed to plunge deep into the sun's atmosphere where it can sample solar wind and magnetism first hand. Launch could happen as early as 2015. By the time the mission ends 7 years later, planners believe Solar Probe+ will solve two great mysteries of astrophysics and make many new discoveries along the way. The probe is still in its early design phase, called "pre-phase A" at NASA headquarters, says Guhathakurta. "We have a lot of work to do, but it's very exciting." Johns Hopkins' Applied Physics Lab (APL) will design and build the spacecraft for NASA. APL already has experience sending probes toward the sun. APL's MESSENGER spacecraft completed its first flyby of the planet Mercury in January 2008 and many of the same heat-resistant technologies will fortify Solar Probe+. (Note: The mission is called Solar Probe plus because it builds on an earlier 2005 APL design called Solar Probe.) At closest approach, Solar Probe+ will be 7 million km or 9 solar radii from the sun. There, the spacecraft's carbon-composite heat shield must withstand temperatures greater than 1400o C and survive blasts of radiation at levels not experienced by any previous spacecraft. Naturally, the probe is solar powered; it will get its electricity from liquid-cooled solar panels that can retract behind the heat-shield when sunlight becomes too intense. From these near distances, the Sun will appear 23 times wider than it does in the skies of Earth. The two mysteries prompting this mission are the high temperature of the sun's corona and the puzzling acceleration of the solar wind: Mystery #1?the corona: If you stuck a thermometer in the surface of the sun, it would read about 6000o C. Intuition says the temperature should drop as you back away; instead, it rises. The sun's outer atmosphere, the corona, registers more than a million degrees Celsius, hundreds of times hotter than the star below. This high temperature remains a mystery more than 60 years after it was first measured. Mystery #2?the solar wind: The sun spews a hot, million mph wind of charged particles throughout the solar system. Planets, comets, asteroids?they all feel it. Curiously, there is no organized wind close to the sun's surface, yet out among the planets there blows a veritable gale. Somewhere in between, some unknown agent gives the solar wind its great velocity. The question is, what? "To solve these mysteries, Solar Probe+ will actually enter the corona," says Guhathakurta. "That's where the action is." The payload consists mainly of instruments designed to sense the environment right around the spacecraft?e.g., a magnetometer, a plasma wave sensor, a dust detector, electron and ion analyzers and so on. "In-situ measurements will tell us what we need to know to unravel the physics of coronal heating and solar wind acceleration," she says. Solar Probe+'s lone remote sensing instrument is the Hemispheric Imager. The "HI" for short is a telescope that will make 3D images of the sun's corona similar to medical CAT scans. The technique, called coronal tomography, is a fundamentally new approach to solar imaging and is only possible because the photography is performed from a moving platform close to the sun, flying through coronal clouds and streamers and imaging them as it flies by and through them. With a likely launch in May 2015, Solar Probe+ will begin its prime mission near the end of Solar Cycle 24 and finish near the predicted maximum of Solar Cycle 25 in 2022. This would allow the spacecraft to sample the corona and solar wind at many different phases of the solar cycle. It also guarantees that Solar Probe+ will experience a good number of solar storms near the end of its mission. While perilous, this is according to plan: Researchers suspect that many of the most dangerous particles produced by solar storms are energized in the corona?just where Solar Probe+ will be. Solar Probe+ may be able to observe the process in action and show researchers how to forecast Solar Energetic Particle (SEP) events that threaten the health and safety of astronauts. Solar Probe+'s repeated plunges into the corona will be accomplished by means of Venus flybys. The spacecraft will swing by Venus seven times in six years to bend the probe?s trajectory deeper and deeper into the sun?s atmosphere. Bonus: Although Venus is not a primary target of the mission, astronomers may learn new things about the planet when the heavily-instrumented probe swings by. "Solar Probe+ is an extraordinary mission of exploration, discovery and deep understanding," says Guhathakurta. "We can't wait to get started." From lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu Wed Jun 11 16:10:25 2008 From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu (lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 13:10:25 -0700 (MST) Subject: [meteorite-list] And the winner is-- Plutoid! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49707.71.226.60.25.1213215025.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> Hi All: I will probably be going to the August meeting in Maryland, so it will be interesting to see how this new terminology goes over. So everything round and icy (maybe) is a Plutoid, which means Pluto-like. Since we don't know what Pluto is (at least what to define it as), this really makes a whole lot of sense. NOT! I predict it will go over like a lead balloon. Larry L. The previous statements are the opinion of the author and may not reflect the opinions of other scientists. On Wed, June 11, 2008 12:58 pm, Darren Garrison wrote: > http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/080611-plutoid-planets.html > > > Pluto Now Called a Plutoid > By Robert Roy Britt > Senior Science Writer > posted: 11 June 2008 > 10:30 am ET > > > Updated 2:00 p.m. ET > > > Pluto's years-long identity crisis just got more complex today. > > > The International Astronomical Union has decided on the term "plutoid" as > a name for Pluto and other objects that just two years ago were redefined > as "dwarf planets." > > The surprise decision is unlikely to stem ongoing controversy and > confusion, astronomers say. > > Sidestepping concerns of many astronomers worldwide, the IAU's decision, > at a meeting of its Executive Committee in Oslo, comes almost two years > after it stripped Pluto of its planethood and introduced the term "dwarf > planets" for Pluto and other small round objects that often travel highly > elliptical paths around the sun in the far reaches of the solar system. > > "Most of the people in astronomy and planetary science community had no > idea this was going to come out," said Hal Weaver of the Johns Hopkins > University > Applied Physics Laboratory. Weaver called the new definition "sort of > outdated, outmoded, archaic." > > A meeting in August at the Applied Physics Laboratory is slated to debate > the entire topic of defining planets. Meanwhile, other astronomers said > the new definition needed more definition or that it might simply not be > used. > > "This seems like an unattractive term and an unnecessary one to me," said > David > Morrison, an astronomer at NASA's Ames Research Center who, in 2006, said > the IAU's actions on Pluto have created major rifts among astronomers. > > > The new definition > > > The name plutoid was proposed by the members of the IAU Committee on > Small Body > Nomenclature (CSBN), accepted by the Board of Division III and by the IAU > Working Group for Planetary System Nomenclature (WGPSN), and approved by > the IAU Executive Committee at its recent meeting in Oslo, according to a > statement released today. > > Here's the official new definition: > > > "Plutoids are celestial bodies in orbit around the sun at a distance > greater than that of Neptune that have sufficient mass for their > self-gravity to overcome rigid body forces so that they assume a > hydrostatic equilibrium (near-spherical) shape, and that have not cleared > the neighborhood around their orbit." > > In short: small round things beyond Neptune that orbit the sun and have > lots of rocky neighbors. > > The two known and named plutoids are Pluto and Eris, the IAU stated. The > organization expects more plutoids will be found. > > "Rather than resistance to 'plutoid,' I think we'll just be hearing > groans," said Stephen J. Kortenkamp, senior scientist at the Planetary > Science Institute > in Tucson. > > Controversy continues > > > One IAU leader recognizes it is adding to an ongoing controversy. > > > The IAU has been responsible for naming planetary bodies and their > satellites since the early 1900s. Its decision in 2006 to demote Pluto was > highly controversial, with some astronomers saying simply that they would > not heed it and questioning the IAU's validity as a governing body. > > "The IAU is a democratic organization, thus open to comments and > criticism of any kind," IAU General Secretary Karel A. van der Hucht told > SPACE.com by email > today. "Given the history of the issue, we will probably never reach a > complete consensus." > > Van der Hucht said the new designation is not a further demotion for the > once-favorite planet of grade-school children: "Pluto is now the prototype > of a very interesting category of outer solar system bodies." > > IAU Division III President Edward L.G. Bowell of the Lowell Observatory > said the ruling stems from unfinished business from the forging of a > planet definition in 2006. Bowell said there is no agreed-upon way to > define "dwarf planet" yet, so "officers of the IAU thought it would be a > good idea to adopt alternative criteria that would at least allow those > large bodies to be named as though they were dwarf planets." > > It remains to be seen whether astronomers will use the new term. > > > "My guess is that no one is going to much use this term, though perhaps > I'm > wrong," said Caltech astronomer Mike Brown, who has led the discovery of > several objects in the outer solar system, including Eris. "But I don't > think that this will be because it is controversial, just not particularly > necessary." > > Brown was unaware of the new definition until the IAU announced it today. > > > "Back when the term 'pluton' was nixed they said they would come up with > another one," Brown said. "So I guess they finally did." > > Reactions were not all negative, however. > > > "It seems like a reasonable decision to me, and given the excitement > generated by New Horizons [a NASA probe headed for Pluto], it's in > everyone's interest to favor the largest Kuiper belt objects with their > own categorical designation," said Gregory Laughlin, a University of > California, Santa Cruz extrasolar planet > researcher. > > "The only fly in the ointment that I can envision is if a plutoid larger, > than, say, Mars is detected," Laughlin points out. "In that case, I think > we'd see a big flare-up of the what-is-a-planet debate." > > More debate coming > > > The dwarf planet Ceres (which used to be called an asteroid, and before > that was called a planet!) is not a plutoid as it is located in the > asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter, according to the IAU. Current > scientific knowledge lends credence to the belief that Ceres is the only > object of its kind, the IAU stated. Therefore, a separate category of > Ceres-like dwarf planets will not be > proposed at this time, the reasoning goes. > > Weaver, the Johns Hopkins researcher, has helped organized a meeting, > planned earlier this year for Aug. 14-16 at Johns Hopkins University > Applied Physics > Laboratory, that aims to bring astronomers of varying viewpoints together > to discuss the controversy. > > "We're not trying to slam the IAU, it's just that we also don't want to > lead people to the idea that there's a handful of people who decide where > science should go," Weaver said today. The meeting is designed to "address > this question in terms of a scientific conference." He said no votes will > be taken at the meeting. Rather, it's a time to "sit back and take stock > of everything we've learned in the past couple of decades." > > The term plutoid joins a host of other odd words -- plutinos, centaurs, > cubewanos and EKOs -- that astronomers have conjured in recent years to > define objects in the outer solar system, whose appearance seems to grow > more complex every year. > > Kortenkamp wonders if "plutoid" isn't just one more confusing term in the > cosmic lexicon. > > "So Pluto is a Kuiper belt object, a plutino (the unofficial but nearly > universally accepted name for objects in the 2:3 resonance with Neptune), > a dwarf planet, and now also a plutoid?" he said. "If the IAU is trying to > make things more clear, I think it needs to try again. This is just > another layer of confusion that will feed the "pluto is a planet" camp at > the [Johns Hopkings] meeting." > > Kortenkamp also thinks the new defiinition leaves Ceres up in the air: > "And this > "-oid" classification doesn't apply to Ceres?" he asks. "Okay, so does > that means we continue calling Ceres an ASTERoid?" > > Asked if Ceres remains a dwarf planet and is not an asteroid, Bowell, the > IAU > official, said: "I think so!" > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From clp at alumni.caltech.edu Wed Jun 11 16:22:00 2008 From: clp at alumni.caltech.edu (Chris Peterson) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 14:22:00 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] And the winner is-- Plutoid! References: Message-ID: <021901c8cc00$d3c357c0$0a01a8c0@bellatrix> Let me be the first... groan! Chris ***************************************** Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darren Garrison" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 1:58 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] And the winner is-- Plutoid! > "Rather than resistance to 'plutoid,' I think we'll just be hearing > groans," > said Stephen J. Kortenkamp, senior scientist at the Planetary Science > Institute > in Tucson. From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Wed Jun 11 16:23:58 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 13:23:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA's Phoenix Lander Has An Oven Full Of Martian Soil Message-ID: <200806112023.NAA23009@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2008-104 NASA's Phoenix Lander Has An Oven Full Of Martian Soil Jet Propulsion Laboratory June 11, 2008 TUCSON, Ariz. - NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander has filled its first oven with Martian soil. "We have an oven full," Phoenix co-investigator Bill Boynton of the University of Arizona, Tucson, said today. "It took 10 seconds to fill the oven. The ground moved." Boynton leads the Thermal and Evolved-Gas Analyzer instrument, or TEGA, for Phoenix. The instrument has eight separate tiny ovens to bake and sniff the soil to assess its volatile ingredients, such as water. The lander's Robotic Arm delivered a partial scoopful of clumpy soil from a trench informally called "Baby Bear" to the number 4 oven on TEGA last Friday, June 6, which was 12 days after landing. A screen covers each of TEGA's eight ovens. The screen is to prevent larger bits of soil from clogging the narrow port to each oven so that fine particles fill the oven cavity, which is no wider than a pencil lead. Each TEGA chute also has a whirligig mechanism that vibrates the screen to help shake small particles through. Only a few particles got through when the screen on oven number 4 was vibrated on June 6, 8 and 9. Boynton said that the oven might have filled because of the cumulative effects of all the vibrating, or because of changes in the soil's cohesiveness as it sat for days on the top of the screen. "There's something very unusual about this soil, from a place on Mars we've never been before," said Phoenix Principal Investigator Peter Smith of the University of Arizona. "We're interested in learning what sort of chemical and mineral activity has caused the particles to clump and stick together." Plans prepared by the Phoenix team for the lander's activities on Thursday, June 12 include sprinkling Martian soil on the delivery port for the spacecraft's Optical Microscope and taking additional portions of a high-resolution color panorama of the lander's surroundings. The Phoenix mission is led by Smith with project management at JPL and development partnership at Lockheed Martin, located in Denver. International contributions come from the Canadian Space Agency; the University of Neuchatel, Switzerland; the universities of Copenhagen and Aarhus, Denmark; Max Planck Institute, Germany; and the Finnish Meteorological Institute. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Media contacts: Guy Webster 818-354-6278 Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. guy.webster at jpl.nasa.gov Dwayne Brown 202-358-1726 NASA Headquarters, Washington dwayne.c.brown at nasa.gov Sara Hammond 520-626-1974 University of Arizona, Tucson shammond at lpl.arizona.edu From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Wed Jun 11 16:27:52 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 13:27:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] U. North Carolina Technology Enrolled in Hunt for Life on Mars Message-ID: <200806112027.NAA24090@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill News Services contact: Patric Lane, (919) 962-8596 Tuesday, June 10, 2008 UNC technology enrolled in hunt for life on Mars Scientists looking for evidence of life on Mars have turned to technology invented by University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill researchers to help with their mission. A team from NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif., has created a device for use on the European ExoMars rover mission scheduled for launch in 2013. That space voyage is one of several planned expeditions to the red planet that will follow in the footsteps of NASA's Phoenix mission, which landed on Mars late last month and this week began preparing to test soil samples. The microfluidic or "lab-on-a-chip" device -- which takes its name from the fact that the credit-card sized invention can perform multiple detailed laboratory tests -- could be used to analyze Martian soil and rock for traces of biological compounds such as amino acids, the building blocks of proteins. But until they turned to materials called perfluoropolyethers (PFPEs), which were first pioneered for use in the field of microfluidics by Joseph DeSimone, Ph.D., Chancellor's Eminent Professor of Chemistry and Chemical Engineering and his colleagues in UNC's College of Arts and Sciences, the NASA team was having trouble making a chip that could withstand the rigors of the proposed mission. Jason Rolland, Ph.D., who helped invent PFPE materials for microfluidic devices when he was a graduate student in DeSimone's lab, said the tiny apparatus handle very small volumes of liquids through tiny channels, and are similar to microelectronic chips, but for fluids. The elastic nature of PFPEs makes it possible to incorporate moving parts such as tiny valves into the devices. In a paper co-written by Rolland and published recently in the Royal Society of Chemistry journal Lab on a Chip, the NASA team, led by Peter Willis, Ph.D., said devices made using PFPE membranes sandwiched between layers of glass were easier to make and greatly outperformed other materials such as PDMS and PTFE, commercially known as Teflon. The chips also held up to severe stress testing, surviving the equivalent of 1 million operations at temperatures ranging from 50 degrees Celsius to minus 50 degrees Celsius virtually unscathed. "It turned out that the material fit right into the sweet spot of what NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory needed to enable this device to work," said Rolland, co-founder and director of research and development at Liquidia Technologies, a company which licensed the PFPE technology from UNC. "There are several reasons to suspect that amino acids and other biological molecules could be found on the surface of Mars," Rolland said. "If this device is able to confirm this, it would obviously be one of the most important discoveries of all time. It's exciting to think that UNC and Liquidia Technologies could be a part of that." To see the study, go to: http://www.rsc.org/Publishing/Journals/LC/article.asp?doi=b804265a For more information about Liquidia, go to http://www.liquidia.com For information about NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, visit http://www.jpl.nasa.gov Note: Rolland can be reached at (919) 991-0835 IMAGE CAPTION: [http://uncnews.unc.edu/images/stories/news/science/2008/exomars%20rover_esa.jpg (2.6MB)] The ExoMars rover (photo credit: European Space Agency) From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Wed Jun 11 16:50:04 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 13:50:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars Exploration Rover Update: May 29 - Jun 03, 2008 Message-ID: <200806112050.NAA26589@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/mission/status.html#opportunity OPPORTUNITY UPDATE: On the Road Again! - sol 1545-1550, May 29 - Jun 03, 2008: After passing a series of tests to earn a new driver's certificate, Opportunity resumed driving while keeping its robotic arm in a new, "stowed" position that is essentially mostly unstowed. Engineers studied the vehicle's response in a variety of scenarios and determined that the new, unstowed position minimizes joint stresses, provides a clear field of view for driving, provides sufficient clearance between the turret holding the scientific instruments and the surface, and allows the largest possible work volume for in-situ science. In fact, tests of a surrogate rover on Earth were in some ways an "overtest," because gravitational forces on Earth are greater than on Mars. Opportunity completed two drives, advancing about 0.5 meters (1.6 feet) on Sol 1547 (May 31, 2008) and 0.22 meters (0.72 feet) on Sol 1550 (June 3, 2008). The robotic arm behaved as expected during both drives. Prior to the recent electrical anomaly that caused the robotic arm to stall, Opportunity performed a "toe dip," during which the rover drove forward a short distance and then backward to characterize the sandy terrain en route to a promonotory dubbed "Cape Verde." During the procedure, Opportunity experienced significant wheel slippage of more than 90 percent in addition to high tilt while moving backward. After a series of adjustments, rover operators discovered that the rover's front wheels had begun to dig into the terrain. They decided to stop driving forward and focus on driving backward to extract the rover's front wheels from the sand. During this week's two drives, Opportunity continued to make slow and steady progress toward backing out of the sand. Once the rover's wheels are free, Opportunity will head for a staging area to make more observations of the Cape Verde promontory. The staging area is about 15 meters (49 feet) away, or about the length of two passenger buses lined up end to end. Opportunity continued to acquire images for the full-color "Garrels panorama" as well as images of the soil target informally named "Williams." The rover remains healthy and all subsystems are performing as expected. Solar-array energy has averaged about 475 watt-hours (100 watt-hours is the amount of energy needed to light a 100-watt bulb for one hour). Sol-by-sol summary: In addition to receiving morning instructions directly from Earth via the rover's high-gain antenna and measuring atmospheric dust with the panoramic camera, Opportunity completed the following activities: Sol 1545 (May 29, 2008): Opportunity acquired Part 12 of the Garrels panorama. Sol 1546: Opportunity took images of Williams, surveyed the sky at high Sun, took thumbnail images of the sky for calibration purposes and surveyed the horizon with the panoramic camera. Sol 1547: Opportunity drove 0.5 meters (1.6 feet). Before and after the drive, the rover took images of the robotic arm with the navigation camera. The rover took post-drive images of the surface near the wheels with the hazard-avoidance cameras and images of the surrounding terrain with the navigation camera. Sol 1548: In the morning, Opportunity took spot images of the sky for calibration purposes with the panoramic camera and six time-lapse movie frames in search of clouds with the navigation camera. The rover measured argon gas in the Martian atmosphere with the alpha-particle X-ray spectrometer. Sol 1549: After relaying data to NASA's Odyssey orbiter, Opportunity continued to measure atmospheric argon with the alpha-particle X-ray spectrometer. Sol 1550 (June 3, 2008): In the morning, Opportunity produced a six-frame, time-lapse movie in search of Martian clouds with the navigation camera. The rover drove 0.22 meters (0.72 feet) toward Cape Verde and acquired post-drive images with the hazard-avoidance and navigation cameras. After sending data to Odyssey, Opportunity measured atmospheric argon. Plans for the next morning called for Opportunity to acquire panoramic-camera images of the rover's external magnets and survey as well as acquire thumbnail images of the sky with the panoramic camera for calibation purposes. Odometry: As of sol 1550 (June 3, 2008), Opportunity's total odometry was 11,690.27 meters (7.26 miles). From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Wed Jun 11 16:57:24 2008 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 13:57:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] New Fleabay Rant was Ebay caution! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161323.57860.qm@web55206.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Under Fleabay's "thou shalt not speak any bad thing about Fleabay even it if it is the truth" rule, I might never get my account back for sharing this horror story. I had a collision with the Flea-Bay monster last week that should give all pause if they ever think of letting a visitor or employee use their own computer to "check a few auctions". According to the man behind the curtain we are supposed to not know exists, y FleaBay account was suspended because I had an "associate" who's account was suspended. Associate means ,in this case, anyone that has ever, at anytime in the past, used my computer. To Fleabay it also means your roommate, family member, kid across the street pirating your WiFi connection, anonymous user at the public library where you stopped to used a computer on a cross country trip. To heap insult they will not tell you the details of why they suspended you. Thy find you guilty BEFORE they investigate and approach it from that standpoint. I am "guilty" of having a former employee that was suspended-- even though the use itself was several months ago that she used my computer when she was in good standing. The appeal is processed by clearly government-grade/lower primate genus quality employees that the DMV obviously overlooked. I am in my third resending of supporting documents that any registered user who has my ebay user name can look up. I have to prove to ebay's satisfaction that when I set us my account 12 years ago and bought 2000+ items that I wasn't doing it to sneak in an auction for a suspended user 12 years into the future--again DMV quality logic. As to my "associate" Two months ago she was here working for me and I only had one internet conncection so we shared one computer. She was in good standing with Fleabay, then a week ago she was suspended for slow paying-- never mind that her PayPal account was hacked and emptied leaving her without funds to pay. Ebay's shild bidding routines apparently noticed that she had used several computers in the past and suspended all the accounts that ever shared those computers. When you bid, Fleabay actually interrogates your computer for a unique mac (not Macintosh) address on your computer or network cards or anything else connected to your computer that has a unique digital ID. They keep this file on you forever. Notice under Fleabay it makes no difference of your intent-you ARE guilty because their computer says so. You can be guilty today because you allowed something they themselves allow months ago. If you aren't paranoid already--consider that if run a business and bought a computer that was EVER used by an FUTURE suspended user you are at risk of PERPETUAL suspension from ever using Fleabay again.--Get this... It is all spelled out in your "user" agreement with them. And don't EVER use a public computer at a library to conduct business with Fleabay --that is a rigged roulette game where one past suspended user can take down anyone that has ever used that computer! Elton From cynapse at charter.net Wed Jun 11 17:21:35 2008 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 17:21:35 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] And the winner is-- Plutoid! In-Reply-To: <49707.71.226.60.25.1213215025.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> References: <49707.71.226.60.25.1213215025.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> Message-ID: <5eg054p6b3j63snmhaj6bcefh7vcirfso4@4ax.com> On Wed, 11 Jun 2008 13:10:25 -0700 (MST), you wrote: >So everything round and icy (maybe) is a Plutoid, which means Pluto-like. >Since we don't know what Pluto is (at least what to define it as), this >really makes a whole lot of sense. NOT! > http://webpages.charter.net/garrison6328/mfds.jpg From lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu Wed Jun 11 17:55:42 2008 From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu (lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 14:55:42 -0700 (MST) Subject: [meteorite-list] And the winner is-- Plutoid! In-Reply-To: <5eg054p6b3j63snmhaj6bcefh7vcirfso4@4ax.com> References: <49707.71.226.60.25.1213215025.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> <5eg054p6b3j63snmhaj6bcefh7vcirfso4@4ax.com> Message-ID: <50024.71.226.60.25.1213221342.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> Dear Darren: I am sorry that I have to disagree with what you depict in your photo. The Death Star did a pretty good job of clearing out its neighborhood either by blowing things up or drawing them in with a tractor beam! :o) Larry On Wed, June 11, 2008 2:21 pm, Darren Garrison wrote: > On Wed, 11 Jun 2008 13:10:25 -0700 (MST), you wrote: > > >> So everything round and icy (maybe) is a Plutoid, which means >> Pluto-like. >> Since we don't know what Pluto is (at least what to define it as), this >> really makes a whole lot of sense. NOT! >> > > http://webpages.charter.net/garrison6328/mfds.jpg > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From mikewren at gilanet.com Wed Jun 11 18:35:37 2008 From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 16:35:37 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Super Rare Auctions Ending Today! See Highlights... Message-ID: <200806111637397.SM01660@yourfsyly0jtwn> ________________________________________ From: michael cottingham [mailto:mikewren at gilanet.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 4:35 PM To: 'michael cottingham' Subject: AD: Super Rare Auctions Ending Today! See Highlights... Hello Everyone, Ebay Store Has 10% off going on. Go to: http://stores.ebay.com/VOYAGE-BOTANICA-NATURAL-HISTORY Check These Out Links: Very Rare, MILENA, Croatia Fall From 1842 ! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200228588486 Low Known Weight, TAHOKA, Texas, L5, 0.60g http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200228592842 Most Sought After! BONITA SPRINGS, FL. 0.51g http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200228592864 (NEW), NWA 5054, Wholesale Lot, L5, 502g #1 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200228592874 (NEW), NWA 4972, L4-5, Brecciated, 40.77g http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200228592888 Extremely Rare DEEP SPRINGS, NC,Ataxite,4.89g http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200228615524 One of THE RAREST- HONOLULU, Hawaii, 0.043g http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200228641796 Very Rare Achondrite, NWA 2635, 2.40 gram http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200228644857 Extremely Rare ALLAN HILLS, Antarctica,76009 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200229203401 Very Rare and Beautiful, NWA 801, CR2, 4.52g http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200228934620 Ungrouped Ataxite, DRONINO, Russia, 114.29 g http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200228920554 LTKW, SACRAMENTO WASH 002, Az., H4, 2.76 g http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200228644839 NEW H7 Meteorite, Super Rare, NWA 4229, 0.86 gram http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200228644871 NWA 2932, Beautiful Mesosiderite, 5.19 gram http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200228644854 CANYON DIABLO Individual, 20.35 gram http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200228644833 Difficult To Acquire MILLS, New Mexico, 2.70g http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200228623282 A Beautiful Meteorite Coin From Argentina http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200228592916 Superb MONTURAQUI Impactite Individual 8.30g http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200228644830 1 Kilo Lot of Unclassified NWA, 1,000g http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200228592896 (NEW), NWA 4952, L/LL4-5, Brecciated, 4.63g http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200228644863 And a few more. Thanks and Best Wishes Michael Cottingham From midwest at meteorman.org Wed Jun 11 19:09:44 2008 From: midwest at meteorman.org (Timothy Heitz) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 18:09:44 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Auction Results? - any word In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <003801c8cc18$3ea76ba0$bbf642e0$@org> Hi List, Any word on the results of the Auction yet? Tim Heitz NEW WEB SITE Midwest Meteorites - http://www.meteorman.org/ -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of MeteorHntr at aol.com Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 1:50 AM To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Auction Results? Hey Guys, Anyone with the results of the Auction this last weekend? All I saw in the news was that Michigan sold for $20,000, and the 3/4 ton Nantan went for $90,000. Steve Arnold #1 **************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best 2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102) ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From tbear1 at cableone.net Wed Jun 11 20:40:57 2008 From: tbear1 at cableone.net (Ted Bunch) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 17:40:57 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Auction Results? - any word In-Reply-To: <003801c8cc18$3ea76ba0$bbf642e0$@org> Message-ID: What you need to do is go to the Heritage web site, register, then you can gain access to the results. T. Bunch On 6/11/08 4:09 PM, "Timothy Heitz" wrote: > > Hi List, > > Any word on the results of the Auction yet? > > Tim Heitz > > NEW WEB SITE > Midwest Meteorites - http://www.meteorman.org/ > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of > MeteorHntr at aol.com > Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 1:50 AM > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: [meteorite-list] Auction Results? > > Hey Guys, > > Anyone with the results of the Auction this last weekend? > > All I saw in the news was that Michigan sold for $20,000, and the 3/4 ton > Nantan went for $90,000. > > Steve Arnold #1 > > > > > **************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best > 2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From MeteorHntr at aol.com Wed Jun 11 21:22:29 2008 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 21:22:29 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Auction Results? - any word Message-ID: In a message dated 6/11/2008 7:41:49 P.M. Central Daylight Time, tbear1 at cableone.net writes: What you need to do is go to the Heritage web site, register, then you can gain access to the results. T. Bunch Thanks. Interesting results. I would assume that if a lot is not listed in the "Auctions Results Archives" it would mean that particular lot did not reach the reserve price, and did not sale, although I didn't read that explanation anywhere on the site. Seems like prices pretty much hit the expected prices, a few up above estimates, a few below. Steve Arnold #1 **************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best 2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102) From darryl at dof3.com Wed Jun 11 22:41:56 2008 From: darryl at dof3.com (Darryl Pitt) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 22:41:56 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] HERITAGE AUCTION / BONHAMS AUCTION In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A666D94-C773-4945-954F-CE7FAE10FE7A@dof3.com> hi there! a few words.... HERITAGE there was interest in most specimens but participation was thin and the bidding by mostly lone buyers was largely against reserves. at the same time, it really must be noted that non-natural history auctions were also weak this past weekend. i believe this is in part a reflection of the economic news which occurred on friday: a 400 point drop in the DJIA and the $10/barrel jump in oil---the largest single incremental jump on record. a lot of folks just didn't show up. BONHAMS separately, i've received several emails as it regards LOT 4423 in the june 22nd bonhams' sale. PLEASE NOTE: i am no longer responsible for vetting all the meteorites in bonhams' sales, and yes, i agree LOT 4423 does not appear to be a sikhote-alin. given what is, at best, an inexplicably anomalous presentation for a sikhote-alin (and the seed-of-doubt that such offerings create), i strongly suggested to bonhams that this consignment be pulled from the june 22nd sale. apart from the foregoing, there are many terrific meteorites in this collection. thank you. all best / darryl On Jun 11, 2008, at 9:22 PM, MeteorHntr at aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 6/11/2008 7:41:49 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > tbear1 at cableone.net writes: > What you need to do is go to the Heritage web site, register, then > you can > gain access to the results. > > T. Bunch > > Thanks. > > Interesting results. > > I would assume that if a lot is not listed in the "Auctions Results > Archives" it would mean that particular lot did not reach the > reserve price, and did > not sale, although I didn't read that explanation anywhere on the > site. > > Seems like prices pretty much hit the expected prices, a few up above > estimates, a few below. > > Steve Arnold #1 > > > > > **************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. > City's Best > 2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Wed Jun 11 23:16:23 2008 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 20:16:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] New Ebay caution!OT Message-ID: <376619.33871.qm@web55205.mail.re4.yahoo.com> I had a collision with the Flea-Bay monster last week that should give all pause if they ever think of letting a friend or employee use their own computer to " check a few auctions". My eBay account was suspended because I had an "associate" who's account was suspended. Associate means in this case anyone that has ever used my computer. But to ebay it also means your roommate, family member, kid across the street pirating your WiFi connection, anonomous user at the public library where you stopped to used a computer on a cross country trip. Two months ago she was here working for me and I only had one internet conncection so we shared one computer. She was in good standing with Fleabay then a week ago she was suspended for slow paying. Ebay's shild bidding routines noticed that she had used several computers in the past and suspended all the accounts that ever shared those computers. Notice under Fleabay it makes no difference of int From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Thu Jun 12 03:14:19 2008 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 02:14:19 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] And the winner is-- PLUTOID! References: <49707.71.226.60.25.1213215025.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> Message-ID: <005b01c8cc5b$eef40980$8d5ae146@ATARIENGINE> Hi, All, First, what does the suffix "-oid" MEAN? http://dictionary.die.net/-oid from Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913): "-oid \-oid\ [Gr. ?, fr. ? form, akin to ? to see, and E. wit: cf.F. -o["i]de, L. -o["i]des.] A suffix or combining form meaning like, resembling, in the form of; as in anthropoid, asteroid, spheroid." >From http://www.answers.com/topic/oid-1 "1. Used as in mainstream slang English to indicate a poor imitation, a counterfeit, or some otherwise slightly bogus resemblance." and "-oid is a suffix much used in the sciences and mathematics to indicate a 'similarity, not necessarily exact, to something else'. According to the Oxford English Dictionary, -oid is derived from the Latin suffix -oides taken from Greek and meaning 'having the likeness of'." (This is a re-working of the Oxford English Dictionary's definition by the Wikipedia.) As a result, while "Plutoid" is a possible term of definition, the planet Pluto itself CANNOT be a "Plutoid"! The headline: "Pluto Now Called a Plutoid" is a gross mis-understanding of the meaning of the word. Not even the IAU says that. It says Pluto is a prototype for a class of objects to be named "Plutoids." They are named "Plutoids," not Pluto itself. The term "Plutoid" defines an inclusive class of objects that superficially or fraudulently resemble Pluto but it excludes Pluto, the object a resemblance to which defines the class itself. The suffix indicates a similarity to something else. Pluto does not "resemble" Pluto -- it IS Pluto. Stars are not asteroids, for example, in case you need an example. Moreover, it not clear why objects that actually DO resemble Pluto should be called by an "-oid" suffix. This problem arises because an "-oid" class is composed of many essentially dissimilar objects that share only their superficial appearance to, or a single characteristic with, the out-of-class object for which they are named. Or if that single defining characteristic is the essential one, what is the defining characteristic of the Plutoids? Well, there's one ONE characteristic: iot is merely that they are "Out There"! (And round and sun-orbiting.) Resolution 6A (2006): "Pluto is a "dwarf planet" by the above definition and is recognized as the prototype of a new category of trans-Neptunian objects," or so the IAU website says, assuming that all TNO's are "like" Pluto. I guess they know a lot more about Pluto -- and the other TNO's! -- than we do, don't they? They voted, by the way, to name that common class "plutons" to the delight of geologists everywhere. That name is still on the IAU website. http://www.iau.org/public_press/news/release/iau0601/ Is "Plutoid" intended as a substitute for "Pluton"? I guess so. Plutino is already taken; sorry! "Plutonian" has been around for decades, but neither the geologists nor the Gods of the Underworld would be happy with that choice. "Plutan" sounds funny. "Plutoan" sounds Polynesian. Somehow, I doubt the IAU was aware of the complexities of an "-oid" class. I think they wanted to to lump the Outer Solar System together into a single-class group and dump it, get it out of planetary astronomy, to make it irrelevant and unimportant, and to get it out of the way. Let's look at the rest of that definition: "Plutoids are celestial bodies in orbit around the sun at a distance greater than that of Neptune..." This is what Space.com say is "the official new definition," putting it in quotes. It is in fact what IAU says in their own press release, proving that their press officers are at least as incompetent as all other press officers in the known Universe. OK. It will no doubt come as a great surprise to the Executive Committee of the IAU (henceforth referred to as "Executoids") that Pluto is NOT "in orbit around the sun at a distance greater than that of Neptune" for 8% of its orbital period. This actually does not matter as Pluto can't be a Plutoid at all as explained above, but if it WAS a Plutoid, it would only BE one 92% of the time, like a quantum virtual particle popping in and out. However, we can blame THIS mess on the Press, the IAU included, because the actual qualifications for a "Plutoid" are NOT those given in the news story! (As usual.) Fiurther down, in the fine priont, here's what the IAU actually says: "..it was decided that, for naming purposes, any Solar System body having (a) a semimajor axis greater than that of Neptune, and (b) an absolute magnitude brighter than H = +1 magnitude will be considered to be a plutoid, and be named by the WGPSN and the CSBN. Name(s) proposed by the discovery team(s) will be given deference. If further investigations show that the object is not massive enough and does not qualify as a plutoid, it will keep its name but change category." http://www.iau.org/public_press/news/release/iau0804/ The Devil is in the details, ALWAYS. Define things as you want, it's the RULES that decide. With these rules, there will NEVER be any other dwarf planets, no matter what (maybe). Why do I say that? Here's the deal. Mike Brown doesn't get to be a planet-finder for finding the planet Eris, but he gets two dwarf planets aznd a bag of marshmallows. Lowell Observatory (Pluto's "owner") loses old Pluto's planethood, but there will never be any other rivals called "planets." Christy, the discoverer of half of a double planet gets nothing -- zip, zilch, nada. It's that detail: a new candidate will have to have an absolute magnitude (H) greater than +1.0. This purely arbitrary H = +1.0 cutoff eliminates all the other candidates because that value is set 'way too high. And they are all too distant for anyone to determine that they are round! Of course, most of them are, but you won't be able to prove it for another generation... or two... or five. This means that "Easterbunny" IS a dwarf planet (H = -0.48) and a "Plutoid". Congratulations, Easterbunny! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%28136472%29_2005_FY9 But the bigger, more massive and impressive "Santa" is not (H = +0.17): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%28136108%29_2003_EL61 and neither is Sedna nor Ouaoar nor Orcus nor Ixion nor Varuna nor (55565) 2002 AW197 nor (84522) 2002 TC302, all larger than Ceres and all most likely round as a beach ball.. because none of these eight (dwarf) planets have got the H! Heck! Ceres doesn't have the H! Clearly beach-ball-like, its albedo is the same as the average TNO and its H is +3.36, less than all the eight PLANETS listed above... It's just damn lucky it was already discovered because it would never make it past the IAU today. Why would they not set the "H limit" at +3.36, as planetary evidence of a ROUND ice-rock world would suggest? Well... You can get rid of a helluva lot of planets that way! (It's a clever move...) It also reduces the number of dwarf planets to four (of which only three are officially recognized), so eventually all this planet furor will die down. They will have gotten rid of Pluto and nobody is going to remember all that stuff about laughing-stock "dwarf" planets. The committee is essentially gambling that all brightest objects have been discovered and is getting ready to fold their cards and let dwarf planets become a footnote, having dumped Pluto, which was what they wanted to do all along. And I've decided to go along with their definition... Is this the time and place to point out that under the 2006 IAU definition of "planet," there are ONLY TWO planets in the Solar System? They are Mercury and Venus, of course. The 2006 IAU definition has three requirements for Planethood, one of which is that planets have cleared their own orbit and the neighborhood around their orbit of all other objects, at least those big enough to notice. Earth, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune have all permitted the continuing residence of a variety of rock balls, ice balls, and other celestial trash very close to, actually entwining with, their orbits, objects constantly flirting around their respective barycenters like ants at a picnic, utterly failing the strict requirements of Uruguayan Absolutism. These bodies have NOT "cleared" their orbits. Those six bodies -- Earth, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune -- are all, by the 2006 IAU definition, "dwarf planets." I know you're all familiar with the Dwarf Planet Jupiter and the Dwarf Planet Saturn with those cute little dwarf planet rings, and so forth. If you're going to have a written definition of "planet" with precise physical characteristics enumerated, rather than continue with the historical usages, then I, for one, will adhere to it AS WRITTEN. There is a sense in which the use of the "-oid" suffix IS appropriate. That is in the sense that the resemblance referred to is inaccurate or inappropriate. Apes at a distance resemble men ("anthropos"), hence anthropoid. A small solar system body seen at a distance with the naked eye or small telescope resembles a star ("aster"), hence asteroid (coined by Sir William Herschel in 1801 when he looked at Ceres and saw a point of light like a star). In other words, the "-oid" term refers to resemblances based on ignorance. The IAU would seem to be the authority there. Now, I'm going to sit down and drink a toast to each and every one of the Solar System's 23 Planets. Sterling K. Webb --------------------------------------------------------------------------- PS: Oddly, Mike Brown seems to think "Santa" (2003 EL61) will be counted as a "Plutoid" even it clearly is not bright enough (at H = +0.17); the IAU specifically says the H = +1.0 limit applies. I don't why he thinks that. He discusses the magnitude limit, says he finds it strange. I don't think he's figured it out yet. http://www.mikebrownsplanets.com/2008/06/plutoid-fever.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 3:10 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] And the winner is-- Plutoid! Hi All: I will probably be going to the August meeting in Maryland, so it will be interesting to see how this new terminology goes over. So everything round and icy (maybe) is a Plutoid, which means Pluto-like. Since we don't know what Pluto is (at least what to define it as), this really makes a whole lot of sense. NOT! I predict it will go over like a lead balloon. Larry L. The previous statements are the opinion of the author and may not reflect the opinions of other scientists. On Wed, June 11, 2008 12:58 pm, Darren Garrison wrote: > http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/080611-plutoid-planets.html > > > Pluto Now Called a Plutoid > By Robert Roy Britt > Senior Science Writer > posted: 11 June 2008 > 10:30 am ET > > > Updated 2:00 p.m. ET > > > Pluto's years-long identity crisis just got more complex today. > > > The International Astronomical Union has decided on the term "plutoid" as > a name for Pluto and other objects that just two years ago were redefined > as "dwarf planets." > > The surprise decision is unlikely to stem ongoing controversy and > confusion, astronomers say. > > Sidestepping concerns of many astronomers worldwide, the IAU's decision, > at a meeting of its Executive Committee in Oslo, comes almost two years > after it stripped Pluto of its planethood and introduced the term "dwarf > planets" for Pluto and other small round objects that often travel highly > elliptical paths around the sun in the far reaches of the solar system. > > "Most of the people in astronomy and planetary science community had no > idea this was going to come out," said Hal Weaver of the Johns Hopkins > University > Applied Physics Laboratory. Weaver called the new definition "sort of > outdated, outmoded, archaic." > > A meeting in August at the Applied Physics Laboratory is slated to debate > the entire topic of defining planets. Meanwhile, other astronomers said > the new definition needed more definition or that it might simply not be > used. > > "This seems like an unattractive term and an unnecessary one to me," said > David > Morrison, an astronomer at NASA's Ames Research Center who, in 2006, said > the IAU's actions on Pluto have created major rifts among astronomers. > > > The new definition > > > The name plutoid was proposed by the members of the IAU Committee on > Small Body > Nomenclature (CSBN), accepted by the Board of Division III and by the IAU > Working Group for Planetary System Nomenclature (WGPSN), and approved by > the IAU Executive Committee at its recent meeting in Oslo, according to a > statement released today. > > Here's the official new definition: > > > "Plutoids are celestial bodies in orbit around the sun at a distance > greater than that of Neptune that have sufficient mass for their > self-gravity to overcome rigid body forces so that they assume a > hydrostatic equilibrium (near-spherical) shape, and that have not cleared > the neighborhood around their orbit." > > In short: small round things beyond Neptune that orbit the sun and have > lots of rocky neighbors. > > The two known and named plutoids are Pluto and Eris, the IAU stated. The > organization expects more plutoids will be found. > > "Rather than resistance to 'plutoid,' I think we'll just be hearing > groans," said Stephen J. Kortenkamp, senior scientist at the Planetary > Science Institute > in Tucson. > > Controversy continues > > > One IAU leader recognizes it is adding to an ongoing controversy. > > > The IAU has been responsible for naming planetary bodies and their > satellites since the early 1900s. Its decision in 2006 to demote Pluto was > highly controversial, with some astronomers saying simply that they would > not heed it and questioning the IAU's validity as a governing body. > > "The IAU is a democratic organization, thus open to comments and > criticism of any kind," IAU General Secretary Karel A. van der Hucht told > SPACE.com by email > today. "Given the history of the issue, we will probably never reach a > complete consensus." > > Van der Hucht said the new designation is not a further demotion for the > once-favorite planet of grade-school children: "Pluto is now the prototype > of a very interesting category of outer solar system bodies." > > IAU Division III President Edward L.G. Bowell of the Lowell Observatory > said the ruling stems from unfinished business from the forging of a > planet definition in 2006. Bowell said there is no agreed-upon way to > define "dwarf planet" yet, so "officers of the IAU thought it would be a > good idea to adopt alternative criteria that would at least allow those > large bodies to be named as though they were dwarf planets." > > It remains to be seen whether astronomers will use the new term. > > > "My guess is that no one is going to much use this term, though perhaps > I'm > wrong," said Caltech astronomer Mike Brown, who has led the discovery of > several objects in the outer solar system, including Eris. "But I don't > think that this will be because it is controversial, just not particularly > necessary." > > Brown was unaware of the new definition until the IAU announced it today. > > > "Back when the term 'pluton' was nixed they said they would come up with > another one," Brown said. "So I guess they finally did." > > Reactions were not all negative, however. > > > "It seems like a reasonable decision to me, and given the excitement > generated by New Horizons [a NASA probe headed for Pluto], it's in > everyone's interest to favor the largest Kuiper belt objects with their > own categorical designation," said Gregory Laughlin, a University of > California, Santa Cruz extrasolar planet > researcher. > > "The only fly in the ointment that I can envision is if a plutoid larger, > than, say, Mars is detected," Laughlin points out. "In that case, I think > we'd see a big flare-up of the what-is-a-planet debate." > > More debate coming > > > The dwarf planet Ceres (which used to be called an asteroid, and before > that was called a planet!) is not a plutoid as it is located in the > asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter, according to the IAU. Current > scientific knowledge lends credence to the belief that Ceres is the only > object of its kind, the IAU stated. Therefore, a separate category of > Ceres-like dwarf planets will not be > proposed at this time, the reasoning goes. > > Weaver, the Johns Hopkins researcher, has helped organized a meeting, > planned earlier this year for Aug. 14-16 at Johns Hopkins University > Applied Physics > Laboratory, that aims to bring astronomers of varying viewpoints together > to discuss the controversy. > > "We're not trying to slam the IAU, it's just that we also don't want to > lead people to the idea that there's a handful of people who decide where > science should go," Weaver said today. The meeting is designed to "address > this question in terms of a scientific conference." He said no votes will > be taken at the meeting. Rather, it's a time to "sit back and take stock > of everything we've learned in the past couple of decades." > > The term plutoid joins a host of other odd words -- plutinos, centaurs, > cubewanos and EKOs -- that astronomers have conjured in recent years to > define objects in the outer solar system, whose appearance seems to grow > more complex every year. > > Kortenkamp wonders if "plutoid" isn't just one more confusing term in the > cosmic lexicon. > > "So Pluto is a Kuiper belt object, a plutino (the unofficial but nearly > universally accepted name for objects in the 2:3 resonance with Neptune), > a dwarf planet, and now also a plutoid?" he said. "If the IAU is trying to > make things more clear, I think it needs to try again. This is just > another layer of confusion that will feed the "pluto is a planet" camp at > the [Johns Hopkings] meeting." > > Kortenkamp also thinks the new defiinition leaves Ceres up in the air: > "And this > "-oid" classification doesn't apply to Ceres?" he asks. "Okay, so does > that means we continue calling Ceres an ASTERoid?" > > Asked if Ceres remains a dwarf planet and is not an asteroid, Bowell, the > IAU > official, said: "I think so!" > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Thu Jun 12 04:29:00 2008 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 03:29:00 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] PLUTOID CORRECTIONS Message-ID: <009301c8cc66$5e3a7900$8d5ae146@ATARIENGINE> Sorry for the mis-spellings. A couple of corrections. The smaller is bigger magnitude scale always did mess me up. Brown should get both 2005 FY9 and 2003 EL61 assigned as "Plutoids," although not necessarily as "dwarf" planets: "The dwarf planet/plutoid classification of new discoveries is now a preliminary one: You get a plutoid-style name when you're bright enough but the jury is still out on whether you also fulfill the key dwarf planet criterion on hydrostatic equilibrium - thus the plutoid status could be taken away from you any time in the future." [Daniel Fischer, comment on http://www.mikebrownsplanets.com/2008/06/plutoid-fever.html ] Ted Bowell (Lowell Obs.) on: http://www.astro.uni-bonn.de/~dfischer/mirror/317.html "There have also been proposals to replace the much-attacked 'dwarf planet' by something else, but Bowell et al. "felt that, most likely, too much time had now passed since the Prague IAU General Assembly to make a change. Thus, we appear to be stuck with the term 'dwarf planet'. " Even the astronomers making the discoveries have no idea what the IAU either means, nor what they mean to do, apparently. They seem to think the H = +1.0 limit applies only to NEW discoveries (which would mean a long list of Plutoids would be approved as Plutoids, if not dwarf planets). The IAU said: "it was decided that, for naming purposes, any Solar System body having (a) a semimajor axis greater than that of Neptune, and (b) an absolute magnitude brighter than H = +1 magnitude will be considered to be a plutoid." This does not sound to me like they're talking about new (still to be made) discoveries. It sounds like they're ruling out the large number of existing discoveries with magnitudes greater than +1.0. We will see when they dispose of naming. Sterling K. Webb From nwa482 at comcast.net Thu Jun 12 07:07:30 2008 From: nwa482 at comcast.net (Jim Strope) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 07:07:30 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Ebay Auctions ending - Planetaries etc Message-ID: <000901c8cc7c$82b6d3d0$0202a8c0@DJQVK441> Good Morning All........ I have auctions ending tonight, ebay ID catchafallingstar.com. ALL started just at 99 Cents!!! FULL RECAP: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZcatchafallingstar.com Of special note this time, I have a 3 Planetaries to offer this time: NWA 2995 Lunar, has beautiful ANORTHOSITIC clasts: (This sold for many thousands of dollars per gram at the recent Bohnams auction in spite of the low turn out) http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200225918660 NWA 2977 Lunar Gabbro, with FUSION CRUST: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200225917749 NWA 2986 Martian Shergottite: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200225841654 Plus many more. See recap: http://members.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPage&userid=catchafallingstar.com Thanks for looking ................ Jim Strope 421 Fourth Street Glen Dale, WV 26038 http://www.catchafallingstar.com From romanj at sympatico.ca Thu Jun 12 07:53:59 2008 From: romanj at sympatico.ca (Roman) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 07:53:59 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Auction Results? - any word References: Message-ID: <008201c8cc83$03682c80$6500a8c0@compaqsdg7ojf0> Hi all. Since this is very related to meteorites, why not list the results on the meteorite list? After all, the info will probably not be available in the near future on their site. I know, this topic was talked about the last few auctions. Cheers, Roman Jirasek ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; ; Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 9:22 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Results? - any word > In a message dated 6/11/2008 7:41:49 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > tbear1 at cableone.net writes: > What you need to do is go to the Heritage web site, register, then you > can > gain access to the results. > > T. Bunch > > Thanks. > > Interesting results. > > I would assume that if a lot is not listed in the "Auctions Results > Archives" it would mean that particular lot did not reach the reserve > price, and did > not sale, although I didn't read that explanation anywhere on the site. > > Seems like prices pretty much hit the expected prices, a few up above > estimates, a few below. > > Steve Arnold #1 > > > > > **************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best > 2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (5.5.1.322) > Database version: 5.10000 > http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor/ E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (5.5.1.322) Database version: 5.10020e http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor/ From Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr Thu Jun 12 13:21:25 2008 From: Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr (Zelimir Gabelica) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 19:21:25 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ensisheim latest news In-Reply-To: <005b01c8cc5b$eef40980$8d5ae146@ATARIENGINE> References: <49707.71.226.60.25.1213215025.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20080612180250.02846d58@pop.univ-mulhouse.fr> Hi all, As you know the Ensisheim festivities "and related" will start in about one week from now. All is almost set regarding the table rentings and there seems to be a rush in reservations for the Friday dinenr-party. May I ask those who still wish to attend the dinner party to let me know (within the next 2 days!) their wish to participate and how many people would attend. Tables (and food) must be reserved! Here is, for your best consideration (and speculation) the (provisional) list of dealers (random order) who firmly reserved tables: Peter Marmet & Marc Jost (CH) Mirko Graul (D) Mike Farmer (US) & Moritz Karl (D) Hanno Strufe (D) J?rgen Nauber (CH) Nicolas Zylbermann (F) (new guest) Martin Altmann & Stefan Ralew (Chladni's Heirs) Peter Kummel (D) Gilles Donin (F) Rainer Hobein (D) Aitaziz Junghans (D) Mohammed Igoui (MC) (new guest) Philippe Thomas & Lea Dejouy (F) Erich Haiderer (A) Giorgio & Lina Tomelleri (I) Sidi Mohammed Ismaily (MC) Anne Black/John Kashuba (US) Sergey Vasiliev (RU-CZ) Uwe & Ewa Eger (D) Ali & Mohamed Hmani (MC) Hans Koser (UY) Gregor Pacer (D) Siegfried Haberer (D) Jiri Simek (CZ) M. Ivanov/A. Ivanova/I. Kladchenko/I. Sakonkina (newcomers from Lithuania) Daniel Rousseaux & Pascal Arnould (F) (new guests) J.L. Parodi a Annick Guesslain (F) Andi Gren (D) Jim Tan Kiat Beng (SN) & Chan Shi Rong (CN) (new guests from Singapour/China) Thomas Dehner (D) M. Cimala (PL) Hey, did I forgot someone ? I have no news from our current "Russian Clan" (Dima Sadilenko & friends). Glad if they can read me or if someone can contact them, their tables are (so far still) reserved. Ahmed Pani (last year dealer) seems impossible to reach.... I have a small waiting list for tables, should the above cited folks either not come nor be able to reach me to quench their places. Last minute dealers without tables can always show up on Friday and/or Saturday morning but I can't guarantee them a table so far. Those wo had to give up this time but promise to be with us in 2009 (10th anniversary of the event!): Bruno & Carine, S. Derecki, F. Kuntz, Aziz Habibi. I expect, as every year, a large bunch of famous people just visiting the show, coming from all over the world. Should anybody need info or specific (but serious) help regarding the show visit, please contact me, although I may not always be avilable on the mail from next week on (we have a scientific symposium organized here in our laboratory so I can someytimes be in contact on erratic hours...) Enthroned as meteorite guardians this year will be: Svend Buhl (D) Mike Farmer (US) John Kashuba (US) Philippe Schmitt-Kopplin (D) Hans Koser (UY) From 2009 on, the number of new enthroned guardians will drop to two! I'll comment these new rules another time... Sergey Vassiliev kindly offered to bring along a significant number of superb museum grade meteorites from Prague for the thematic exhibit. A few more promised to bring a few more. I may complete with more of my (modest) samples. A last minute call for more samples still holds. Offers welcome! Should anybody still need basic info, please have a look at our 2 web sites: http://meteorite.ensisheim.free.fr or www.ville-ensisheim.fr or ask me to send you personally the last circular. In one week from now the big & funny blast will start folks! Hope finding time to see you all! Thanks for reading, be happy and enjoy, Zelimir Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Universit? de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 From grf2 at verizon.net Thu Jun 12 15:35:12 2008 From: grf2 at verizon.net (Jerry) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 15:35:12 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] And the winner is-- PLUTOID! In-Reply-To: <005b01c8cc5b$eef40980$8d5ae146@ATARIENGINE> References: <49707.71.226.60.25.1213215025.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> <005b01c8cc5b$eef40980$8d5ae146@ATARIENGINE> Message-ID: OK. It will no doubt come as a great surprise to the Executive Committee of the IAU (henceforth referred to as "Executoids") Sterling, you never fail to charm your way into a most subtle form of humor while elucidating the nuts and bolts of a gritty, in this case, language dilemma. Jerry Flaherty ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sterling K. Webb" To: "Meteorite List" Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2008 3:14 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] And the winner is-- PLUTOID! > Hi, All, > > First, what does the suffix "-oid" MEAN? > > http://dictionary.die.net/-oid > from Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913): > "-oid \-oid\ [Gr. ?, fr. ? form, akin to ? to see, and E. wit: > cf.F. -o["i]de, L. -o["i]des.] > A suffix or combining form meaning like, resembling, in the > form of; as in anthropoid, asteroid, spheroid." > >>From http://www.answers.com/topic/oid-1 > > "1. Used as in mainstream slang English to indicate > a poor imitation, a counterfeit, or some otherwise slightly > bogus resemblance." > > and > > "-oid is a suffix much used in the sciences and mathematics > to indicate a 'similarity, not necessarily exact, to something else'. > According to the Oxford English Dictionary, -oid is derived > from the Latin suffix -oides taken from Greek and meaning > 'having the likeness of'." (This is a re-working of the Oxford > English Dictionary's definition by the Wikipedia.) > > As a result, while "Plutoid" is a possible term of definition, > the planet Pluto itself CANNOT be a "Plutoid"! The headline: > "Pluto Now Called a Plutoid" is a gross mis-understanding > of the meaning of the word. Not even the IAU says that. It > says Pluto is a prototype for a class of objects to be named > "Plutoids." They are named "Plutoids," not Pluto itself. > > The term "Plutoid" defines an inclusive class of objects that > superficially or fraudulently resemble Pluto but it excludes Pluto, > the object a resemblance to which defines the class itself. The > suffix indicates a similarity to something else. Pluto does not > "resemble" Pluto -- it IS Pluto. Stars are not asteroids, for > example, in case you need an example. > > Moreover, it not clear why objects that actually DO resemble > Pluto should be called by an "-oid" suffix. This problem arises > because an "-oid" class is composed of many essentially > dissimilar objects that share only their superficial appearance > to, or a single characteristic with, the out-of-class object for > which they are named. > > Or if that single defining characteristic is the essential > one, what is the defining characteristic of the Plutoids? Well, > there's one ONE characteristic: iot is merely that they are > "Out There"! (And round and sun-orbiting.) > > Resolution 6A (2006): "Pluto is a "dwarf planet" by > the above definition and is recognized as the prototype > of a new category of trans-Neptunian objects," or so > the IAU website says, assuming that all TNO's are "like" > Pluto. I guess they know a lot more about Pluto -- and > the other TNO's! -- than we do, don't they? > > They voted, by the way, to name that common class > "plutons" to the delight of geologists everywhere. That > name is still on the IAU website. > http://www.iau.org/public_press/news/release/iau0601/ > > Is "Plutoid" intended as a substitute for "Pluton"? I > guess so. Plutino is already taken; sorry! "Plutonian" has > been around for decades, but neither the geologists nor the > Gods of the Underworld would be happy with that choice. > "Plutan" sounds funny. "Plutoan" sounds Polynesian. > > Somehow, I doubt the IAU was aware of the complexities > of an "-oid" class. I think they wanted to to lump the Outer > Solar System together into a single-class group and dump it, > get it out of planetary astronomy, to make it irrelevant and > unimportant, and to get it out of the way. > > Let's look at the rest of that definition: "Plutoids are > celestial bodies in orbit around the sun at a distance greater > than that of Neptune..." This is what Space.com say is "the > official new definition," putting it in quotes. It is in fact > what IAU says in their own press release, proving that their > press officers are at least as incompetent as all other press > officers in the known Universe. > > OK. It will no doubt come as a great surprise to the Executive > Committee of the IAU (henceforth referred to as "Executoids") > that Pluto is NOT "in orbit around the sun at a distance greater > than that of Neptune" for 8% of its orbital period. This actually > does not matter as Pluto can't be a Plutoid at all as explained > above, but if it WAS a Plutoid, it would only BE one 92% of > the time, like a quantum virtual particle popping in and out. > > However, we can blame THIS mess on the Press, the IAU > included, because the actual qualifications for a "Plutoid" are > NOT those given in the news story! (As usual.) Fiurther > down, in the fine priont, here's what the IAU actually says: > > "..it was decided that, for naming purposes, any Solar System > body having (a) a semimajor axis greater than that of Neptune, > and (b) an absolute magnitude brighter than H = +1 magnitude > will be considered to be a plutoid, and be named by the WGPSN > and the CSBN. Name(s) proposed by the discovery team(s) will > be given deference. If further investigations show that the object > is not massive enough and does not qualify as a plutoid, it will > keep its name but change category." > http://www.iau.org/public_press/news/release/iau0804/ > > The Devil is in the details, ALWAYS. Define things as you > want, it's the RULES that decide. With these rules, there will > NEVER be any other dwarf planets, no matter what (maybe). > > Why do I say that? Here's the deal. Mike Brown doesn't > get to be a planet-finder for finding the planet Eris, but he gets > two dwarf planets aznd a bag of marshmallows. Lowell > Observatory (Pluto's "owner") loses old Pluto's planethood, > but there will never be any other rivals called "planets." Christy, > the discoverer of half of a double planet gets nothing -- zip, > zilch, nada. > > It's that detail: a new candidate will have to have an absolute > magnitude (H) greater than +1.0. This purely arbitrary H = +1.0 > cutoff eliminates all the other candidates because that value is > set 'way too high. > > And they are all too distant for anyone to determine that they > are round! Of course, most of them are, but you won't be able > to prove it for another generation... or two... or five. > > This means that "Easterbunny" IS a dwarf planet > (H = -0.48) and a "Plutoid". Congratulations, Easterbunny! > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%28136472%29_2005_FY9 > > But the bigger, more massive and impressive "Santa" is > not (H = +0.17): > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%28136108%29_2003_EL61 > and neither is Sedna nor Ouaoar nor Orcus nor Ixion nor > Varuna nor (55565) 2002 AW197 nor (84522) 2002 TC302, > all larger than Ceres and all most likely round as a beach ball.. > because none of these eight (dwarf) planets have got the H! > > Heck! Ceres doesn't have the H! Clearly beach-ball-like, > its albedo is the same as the average TNO and its H is +3.36, > less than all the eight PLANETS listed above... It's just damn > lucky it was already discovered because it would never make > it past the IAU today. Why would they not set the "H limit" > at +3.36, as planetary evidence of a ROUND ice-rock world > would suggest? Well... > > You can get rid of a helluva lot of planets that way! (It's a > clever move...) It also reduces the number of dwarf planets > to four (of which only three are officially recognized), so > eventually all this planet furor will die down. They will have > gotten rid of Pluto and nobody is going to remember all that > stuff about laughing-stock "dwarf" planets. > > The committee is essentially gambling that all brightest > objects have been discovered and is getting ready to fold > their cards and let dwarf planets become a footnote, having > dumped Pluto, which was what they wanted to do all along. > > And I've decided to go along with their definition... > > Is this the time and place to point out that under the 2006 IAU > definition of "planet," there are ONLY TWO planets in the Solar > System? They are Mercury and Venus, of course. > > The 2006 IAU definition has three requirements for Planethood, > one of which is that planets have cleared their own orbit and the > neighborhood around their orbit of all other objects, at least > those big enough to notice. > > Earth, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune have all > permitted the continuing residence of a variety of rock balls, > ice balls, and other celestial trash very close to, actually > entwining with, their orbits, objects constantly flirting around > their respective barycenters like ants at a picnic, utterly failing > the strict requirements of Uruguayan Absolutism. These bodies > have NOT "cleared" their orbits. Those six bodies -- Earth, > Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune -- are all, by the > 2006 IAU definition, "dwarf planets." > > I know you're all familiar with the Dwarf Planet Jupiter and > the Dwarf Planet Saturn with those cute little dwarf planet rings, > and so forth. > > If you're going to have a written definition of "planet" with > precise physical characteristics enumerated, rather than continue > with the historical usages, then I, for one, will adhere to it AS > WRITTEN. > > There is a sense in which the use of the "-oid" suffix IS > appropriate. That is in the sense that the resemblance referred > to is inaccurate or inappropriate. Apes at a distance resemble > men ("anthropos"), hence anthropoid. A small solar system > body seen at a distance with the naked eye or small telescope > resembles a star ("aster"), hence asteroid (coined by Sir > William Herschel in 1801 when he looked at Ceres and saw > a point of light like a star). In other words, the "-oid" term > refers to resemblances based on ignorance. > > The IAU would seem to be the authority there. > > Now, I'm going to sit down and drink a toast to each and > every one of the Solar System's 23 Planets. > > > > Sterling K. Webb > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > PS: Oddly, Mike Brown seems to think "Santa" (2003 EL61) > will be counted as a "Plutoid" even it clearly is not bright enough > (at H = +0.17); the IAU specifically says the H = +1.0 limit > applies. I don't why he thinks that. He discusses the magnitude > limit, says he finds it strange. I don't think he's figured it out yet. > http://www.mikebrownsplanets.com/2008/06/plutoid-fever.html > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Cc: > Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 3:10 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] And the winner is-- Plutoid! > > > Hi All: > > I will probably be going to the August meeting in Maryland, so it will be > interesting to see how this new terminology goes over. > > So everything round and icy (maybe) is a Plutoid, which means Pluto-like. > Since we don't know what Pluto is (at least what to define it as), this > really makes a whole lot of sense. NOT! > > I predict it will go over like a lead balloon. > > Larry L. > > The previous statements are the opinion of the author and may not reflect > the opinions of other scientists. > > > > On Wed, June 11, 2008 12:58 pm, Darren Garrison wrote: >> http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/080611-plutoid-planets.html >> >> >> Pluto Now Called a Plutoid >> By Robert Roy Britt >> Senior Science Writer >> posted: 11 June 2008 >> 10:30 am ET >> >> >> Updated 2:00 p.m. ET >> >> >> Pluto's years-long identity crisis just got more complex today. >> >> >> The International Astronomical Union has decided on the term "plutoid" as >> a name for Pluto and other objects that just two years ago were redefined >> as "dwarf planets." >> >> The surprise decision is unlikely to stem ongoing controversy and >> confusion, astronomers say. >> >> Sidestepping concerns of many astronomers worldwide, the IAU's decision, >> at a meeting of its Executive Committee in Oslo, comes almost two years >> after it stripped Pluto of its planethood and introduced the term "dwarf >> planets" for Pluto and other small round objects that often travel highly >> elliptical paths around the sun in the far reaches of the solar system. >> >> "Most of the people in astronomy and planetary science community had no >> idea this was going to come out," said Hal Weaver of the Johns Hopkins >> University >> Applied Physics Laboratory. Weaver called the new definition "sort of >> outdated, outmoded, archaic." >> >> A meeting in August at the Applied Physics Laboratory is slated to debate >> the entire topic of defining planets. Meanwhile, other astronomers said >> the new definition needed more definition or that it might simply not be >> used. >> >> "This seems like an unattractive term and an unnecessary one to me," said >> David >> Morrison, an astronomer at NASA's Ames Research Center who, in 2006, said >> the IAU's actions on Pluto have created major rifts among astronomers. >> >> >> The new definition >> >> >> The name plutoid was proposed by the members of the IAU Committee on >> Small Body >> Nomenclature (CSBN), accepted by the Board of Division III and by the IAU >> Working Group for Planetary System Nomenclature (WGPSN), and approved by >> the IAU Executive Committee at its recent meeting in Oslo, according to a >> statement released today. >> >> Here's the official new definition: >> >> >> "Plutoids are celestial bodies in orbit around the sun at a distance >> greater than that of Neptune that have sufficient mass for their >> self-gravity to overcome rigid body forces so that they assume a >> hydrostatic equilibrium (near-spherical) shape, and that have not cleared >> the neighborhood around their orbit." >> >> In short: small round things beyond Neptune that orbit the sun and have >> lots of rocky neighbors. >> >> The two known and named plutoids are Pluto and Eris, the IAU stated. The >> organization expects more plutoids will be found. >> >> "Rather than resistance to 'plutoid,' I think we'll just be hearing >> groans," said Stephen J. Kortenkamp, senior scientist at the Planetary >> Science Institute >> in Tucson. >> >> Controversy continues >> >> >> One IAU leader recognizes it is adding to an ongoing controversy. >> >> >> The IAU has been responsible for naming planetary bodies and their >> satellites since the early 1900s. Its decision in 2006 to demote Pluto >> was >> highly controversial, with some astronomers saying simply that they would >> not heed it and questioning the IAU's validity as a governing body. >> >> "The IAU is a democratic organization, thus open to comments and >> criticism of any kind," IAU General Secretary Karel A. van der Hucht told >> SPACE.com by email >> today. "Given the history of the issue, we will probably never reach a >> complete consensus." >> >> Van der Hucht said the new designation is not a further demotion for the >> once-favorite planet of grade-school children: "Pluto is now the >> prototype >> of a very interesting category of outer solar system bodies." >> >> IAU Division III President Edward L.G. Bowell of the Lowell Observatory >> said the ruling stems from unfinished business from the forging of a >> planet definition in 2006. Bowell said there is no agreed-upon way to >> define "dwarf planet" yet, so "officers of the IAU thought it would be a >> good idea to adopt alternative criteria that would at least allow those >> large bodies to be named as though they were dwarf planets." >> >> It remains to be seen whether astronomers will use the new term. >> >> >> "My guess is that no one is going to much use this term, though perhaps >> I'm >> wrong," said Caltech astronomer Mike Brown, who has led the discovery of >> several objects in the outer solar system, including Eris. "But I don't >> think that this will be because it is controversial, just not >> particularly >> necessary." >> >> Brown was unaware of the new definition until the IAU announced it today. >> >> >> "Back when the term 'pluton' was nixed they said they would come up with >> another one," Brown said. "So I guess they finally did." >> >> Reactions were not all negative, however. >> >> >> "It seems like a reasonable decision to me, and given the excitement >> generated by New Horizons [a NASA probe headed for Pluto], it's in >> everyone's interest to favor the largest Kuiper belt objects with their >> own categorical designation," said Gregory Laughlin, a University of >> California, Santa Cruz extrasolar planet >> researcher. >> >> "The only fly in the ointment that I can envision is if a plutoid larger, >> than, say, Mars is detected," Laughlin points out. "In that case, I think >> we'd see a big flare-up of the what-is-a-planet debate." >> >> More debate coming >> >> >> The dwarf planet Ceres (which used to be called an asteroid, and before >> that was called a planet!) is not a plutoid as it is located in the >> asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter, according to the IAU. Current >> scientific knowledge lends credence to the belief that Ceres is the only >> object of its kind, the IAU stated. Therefore, a separate category of >> Ceres-like dwarf planets will not be >> proposed at this time, the reasoning goes. >> >> Weaver, the Johns Hopkins researcher, has helped organized a meeting, >> planned earlier this year for Aug. 14-16 at Johns Hopkins University >> Applied Physics >> Laboratory, that aims to bring astronomers of varying viewpoints together >> to discuss the controversy. >> >> "We're not trying to slam the IAU, it's just that we also don't want to >> lead people to the idea that there's a handful of people who decide where >> science should go," Weaver said today. The meeting is designed to >> "address >> this question in terms of a scientific conference." He said no votes will >> be taken at the meeting. Rather, it's a time to "sit back and take stock >> of everything we've learned in the past couple of decades." >> >> The term plutoid joins a host of other odd words -- plutinos, centaurs, >> cubewanos and EKOs -- that astronomers have conjured in recent years to >> define objects in the outer solar system, whose appearance seems to grow >> more complex every year. >> >> Kortenkamp wonders if "plutoid" isn't just one more confusing term in the >> cosmic lexicon. >> >> "So Pluto is a Kuiper belt object, a plutino (the unofficial but nearly >> universally accepted name for objects in the 2:3 resonance with Neptune), >> a dwarf planet, and now also a plutoid?" he said. "If the IAU is trying >> to >> make things more clear, I think it needs to try again. This is just >> another layer of confusion that will feed the "pluto is a planet" camp at >> the [Johns Hopkings] meeting." >> >> Kortenkamp also thinks the new defiinition leaves Ceres up in the air: >> "And this >> "-oid" classification doesn't apply to Ceres?" he asks. "Okay, so does >> that means we continue calling Ceres an ASTERoid?" >> >> Asked if Ceres remains a dwarf planet and is not an asteroid, Bowell, the >> IAU >> official, said: "I think so!" >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Thu Jun 12 16:34:51 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 13:34:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Plutoid Chosen as Name for Solar System Objects Like Pluto Message-ID: <200806122034.NAA04416@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> International Astronomical Union Paris, France For more information, please contact: Dr. Edward L.G. Bowell IAU Division III President Lowell Observatory, USA Tel: +1-928-774-3358 Catherine J. Cesarsky IAU President CEA-Saclay DSM / IRFU, France Phone: +33-1-3024-5090 Dr. Karel A. van der Hucht IAU General Secretary International Astronomical Union, France Tel: +31-30-2535729/5600 Mr. Lars Lindberg Christensen IAU Press Officer ESA/Hubble, Garching, Germany Tel: +49-89-32-00-63-06 FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: 11 June 2008 IAU0804 Plutoid chosen as name for Solar System objects like Pluto The International Astronomical Union has decided on the term plutoid as a name for dwarf planets like Pluto at a meeting of its Executive Committee in Oslo. Almost two years after the International Astronomical Union (IAU) General Assembly introduced the category of dwarf planets, the IAU, as promised, has decided on a name for transneptunian dwarf planets similar to Pluto. The name plutoid was proposed by the members of the IAU Committee on Small Body Nomenclature (CSBN), accepted by the Board of Division III, by the IAU Working Group for Planetary System Nomenclature (WGPSN) and approved by the IAU Executive Committee at its recent meeting in Oslo, Norway. Plutoids are celestial bodies in orbit around the Sun at a distance greater than that of Neptune that have sufficient mass for their self-gravity to overcome rigid body forces so that they assume a hydrostatic equilibrium (near-spherical) shape, and that have not cleared the neighbourhood around their orbit. The two known and named plutoids are Pluto and Eris. It is expected that more plutoids will be named as science progresses and new discoveries are made. The dwarf planet Ceres is not a plutoid as it is located in the asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter. Current scientific knowledge lends credence to the belief that Ceres is the only object of its kind. Therefore, a separate category of Ceres-like dwarf planets will not be proposed at this time. The IAU has been responsible for naming planetary bodies and their satellites since the early 1900s. The IAU CSBN, who originally proposed the term plutoid, is responsible for naming small bodies (except satellites of the major planets) in the Solar System. The CSBN will be working with the IAU WGPSN to determine the names of new plutoids to ensure that no dwarf planet shares the name of another small Solar System body. The WGPSN oversees the assignment of names to surface features on bodies in the Solar System. These two committees have previously worked together to accept the names of dwarf planet Eris and its satellite Dysnomia. In Oslo, members of the IAU also discussed the timing involved with the naming of new plutoids. Again, following the advice of the Division III Board and the two Working Groups, it was decided that, for naming purposes, any Solar System body having (a) a semimajor axis greater than that of Neptune, and (b) an absolute magnitude brighter than H = +1 magnitude will be considered to be a plutoid, and be named by the WGPSN and the CSBN. Name(s) proposed by the discovery team(s) will be given deference. If further investigations show that the object is not massive enough and does not qualify as a plutoid, it will keep its name but change category. In French plutoid is plutoide, in Spanish plutoide and in Japanese . Notes The IAU is the international astronomical organisation that brings together almost 10 000 distinguished astronomers from all nations of the world. Its mission is to promote and safeguard the science of astronomy in all its aspects through international cooperation. The IAU also serves as the internationally recognised authority for assigning designations to celestial bodies and the surface features on them. Founded in 1919, the IAU is the worlds largest professional body for astronomers. The absolute magnitude H for planets, dwarf planets, comets and asteroids allows astronomers to compare the brightness of objects as if they all sat one astronomical unit from the Sun and the Earth and at a phase angle of zero degrees. In this scale, increasing brightness corresponds to a decreasing magnitude. Apparently bright objects can have negative magnitudes while positive magnitudes indicate to dim objects. Links * IAU website http://www.iau.org/ * Information about Pluto and the other dwarf planets http://www.iau.org/public_press/themes/pluto/ [NOTE: An image supporting this release is available at http://www.iau.org/static/archives/images/screen/iau0804a.jpg (97KB)] From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Thu Jun 12 16:40:02 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 13:40:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] MRO HiRISE Images - June 11, 2008 Message-ID: <200806122040.NAA06149@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> MARS RECONNAISSANCE ORBITER HIRISE IMAGES June 11, 2008 o June 2008 PDS Release http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/pds_release_jun_08.php o Buttes and Knobs in Cydonia Region http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_005924_2210 o Slope Streaks in Unnamed Crater in Amazonis Region http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_006773_1735 o Layered Rocks in Iani Chaos http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_008100_1790 All of the HiRISE images are archived here: http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ Information about the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter is online at http://www.nasa.gov/mro. The mission is managed by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, a division of the California Institute of Technology, for the NASA Science Mission Directorate, Washington, D.C. Lockheed Martin Space Systems, of Denver, is the prime contractor and built the spacecraft. HiRISE is operated by the University of Arizona. Ball Aerospace and Technologies Corp., of Boulder, Colo., built the HiRISE instrument. From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Thu Jun 12 16:44:08 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 13:44:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA Finds New Type of Comet Dust Mineral (Brownleeite) Message-ID: <200806122044.NAA07057@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> June 12, 2008 Dwayne Brown Headquarters, Washington 202-358-1726 dwayne.c.brown at nasa.gov William P. Jeffs Johnson Space Center, Houston 281-483-5111 william.p.jeffs at nasa.gov RELEASE: 08-143 NASA FINDS NEW TYPE OF COMET DUST MINERAL HOUSTON -- NASA researchers and scientists from the United States, Germany and Japan have found a new mineral in material that likely came from a comet. The mineral, a manganese silicide named Brownleeite, was discovered within an interplanetary dust particle, or IDP, that appears to have originated from comet 26P/Grigg-Skjellerup. The comet originally was discovered in 1902 and reappears every 5 years. The team that made the discovery is headed by Keiko Nakamura-Messenger, a space scientist at NASA's Johnson Space Center in Houston. "When I saw this mineral for the first time, I immediately knew this was something no one had seen before," said Nakamura-Messenger. "But it took several more months to obtain conclusive data because these mineral grains were only 1/10,000 of an inch in size." A new method of collecting IDPs was suggested by Scott Messenger, another Johnson space scientist. He predicted comet 26P/Grigg-Skjellerup was a source of dust grains that could be captured in Earth's stratosphere at a specific time of the year. In response to his prediction, NASA performed stratospheric dust collections, using an ER-2 high-altitude aircraft flown from NASA's Dryden Flight Research Center at Edwards Air Force Base, Calif. The aircraft collected IDPs from this particular comet stream in April 2003. The new mineral was found in one of the particles. To determine the mineral's origin and examine other dust materials, a powerful new transmission electron microscope was installed in 2005 at Johnson. "Because of their exceedingly tiny size, we had to use state-of-the-art nano-analysis techniques in the microscope to measure the chemical composition and crystal structure of Keiko's new mineral," said Lindsay Keller, Johnson space scientist and a co-discoverer of the new mineral. "This is a highly unusual material that has not been predicted either to be a cometary component or to have formed by condensation in the solar nebula." Since 1982, NASA routinely has collected cosmic and interplanetary dust with high-altitude research aircraft. However, the sources of most dust particles have been difficult to pin down because of their complex histories in space. The Earth accretes about 40,000 tons of dust particles from space each year, originating mostly from disintegrating comets and asteroid collisions. This dust is a subject of intense interest because it is made of the original building blocks of the solar system, planets, and our bodies. The mineral was surrounded by multiple layers of other minerals that also have been reported only in extraterrestrial rocks. There have been 4,324 minerals identified by the International Mineralogical Association, or IMA. This find adds one more mineral to that list. The IMA-approved new mineral, Brownleeite, is named after Donald E. Brownlee, professor of astronomy at the University of Washington, Seattle. Brownlee founded the field of IDP research. The understanding of the early solar system established from IDP studies would not exist without his efforts. Brownlee also is the principal investigator of NASA's Stardust mission. The comet researchers include Messenger; John Jones, a co-discoverer of the mineral from Johnson; Simon Clemett and Michael Zolensky in Johnson's Astromaterials Research and Exploration Science Directorate; Russ Palma, Minnesota State University at Mankato; Robert Pepin, University of Minnesota, Minneapolis; Wolfgang Kl?ck, R?ntgenanalytik Messtechnik GmbH, Germany; and Hirokazu Tatsuoka, Shizuoka University, Japan. For additional information on NASA programs, visit: http://www.nasa.gov -end- From Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr Thu Jun 12 16:53:59 2008 From: Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr (Zelimir Gabelica) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 22:53:59 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ensisheim latest news: a corrective In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20080612180250.02846d58@pop.univ-mulhouse.fr> References: <005b01c8cc5b$eef40980$8d5ae146@ATARIENGINE> <49707.71.226.60.25.1213215025.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20080612222623.027784b8@pop.univ-mulhouse.fr> Hi again list, There seems to be some confusion regarding the "list of dealers" I compiled in the first ? of my last post. This is actually the list of those people who rented tables at the show to sell or trade meterites and related, NOT the list of those who reserved tables for the dinner party. This latter list was not reported as it represents less interest at that stage. Sorry if it went confusing but I understand your concerns since the dealer's list just followed the ? reporting the dinner party reservation calls....My mistake! As an example, Svend, please don't worry about your dinner reservations. As you are not on the dealer's list, be aware that I duly retained places for you + 3 other of your people for the party. The same holds for a few other people who asked almost the same question. For your best info, I have for now about 65 people requiring a place for the dinner. Many more might be late in reserving and I expect to complete by about 20 to 25 more people (I note that I even forgot to include myself!). Please rush if you feel concerned, just give me the number of persons. Up to 96-100 people would be the max number the owner can envisage serving... Weather ? From today, we have a dramatic drop in temperatures after a small heat wave associated with a stormy weather period. The next 3 to 5 days are predicted rather cool (in the 15-18?C, that is in the 62-65 F range). Then, from about next Thursday, expect a progressive temperature rise up to the 22-24?C for the week-end (a little above 70 F), which is perfect for the daily wanderings and also possibly for the party to be held outside the famous cellar. Don't worry, the temperature is NEVER correlated with the fun around! I'll answer a few more specific questions off list, unless there appears some other general concern. Take care! Zelimir Btw: anyone could catch news from our Russian friends ? --------------------------- A 19:21 12/06/2008 +0200, Zelimir Gabelica a ?crit : >Hi all, > >As you know the Ensisheim festivities "and related" will start in about >one week from now. > >All is almost set regarding the table rentings and there seems to be a >rush in reservations for the Friday dinenr-party. > >May I ask those who still wish to attend the dinner party to let me know >(within the next 2 days!) their wish to participate and how many people >would attend. >Tables (and food) must be reserved! > >Here is, for your best consideration (and speculation) the (provisional) >list of dealers (random order) who firmly reserved tables: > >Peter Marmet & Marc Jost (CH) >Mirko Graul (D) >Mike Farmer (US) & Moritz Karl (D) >Hanno Strufe (D) >J?rgen Nauber (CH) >Nicolas Zylbermann (F) (new guest) >Martin Altmann & Stefan Ralew (Chladni's Heirs) >Peter Kummel (D) >Gilles Donin (F) >Rainer Hobein (D) >Aitaziz Junghans (D) >Mohammed Igoui (MC) (new guest) >Philippe Thomas & Lea Dejouy (F) >Erich Haiderer (A) >Giorgio & Lina Tomelleri (I) >Sidi Mohammed Ismaily (MC) >Anne Black/John Kashuba (US) >Sergey Vasiliev (RU-CZ) >Uwe & Ewa Eger (D) >Ali & Mohamed Hmani (MC) >Hans Koser (UY) >Gregor Pacer (D) >Siegfried Haberer (D) >Jiri Simek (CZ) >M. Ivanov/A. Ivanova/I. Kladchenko/I. Sakonkina (newcomers from Lithuania) >Daniel Rousseaux & Pascal Arnould (F) (new guests) >J.L. Parodi a Annick Guesslain (F) >Andi Gren (D) >Jim Tan Kiat Beng (SN) & Chan Shi Rong (CN) (new guests from Singapour/China) >Thomas Dehner (D) >M. Cimala (PL) > >Hey, did I forgot someone ? > >I have no news from our current "Russian Clan" (Dima Sadilenko & friends). >Glad if they can read me or if someone can contact them, their tables are >(so far still) reserved. >Ahmed Pani (last year dealer) seems impossible to reach.... > >I have a small waiting list for tables, should the above cited folks >either not come nor be able to reach me to quench their places. > > Last minute dealers without tables can always show up on Friday and/or > Saturday morning but I can't guarantee them a table so far. > >Those wo had to give up this time but promise to be with us in 2009 (10th >anniversary of the event!): >Bruno & Carine, S. Derecki, F. Kuntz, Aziz Habibi. > >I expect, as every year, a large bunch of famous people just visiting the >show, coming from all over the world. >Should anybody need info or specific (but serious) help regarding the show >visit, please contact me, although I may not always be avilable on the >mail from next week on (we have a scientific symposium organized here in >our laboratory so I can someytimes be in contact on erratic hours...) > >Enthroned as meteorite guardians this year will be: >Svend Buhl (D) >Mike Farmer (US) >John Kashuba (US) >Philippe Schmitt-Kopplin (D) >Hans Koser (UY) > > From 2009 on, the number of new enthroned guardians will drop to two! > I'll comment these new rules another time... > >Sergey Vassiliev kindly offered to bring along a significant number of >superb museum grade meteorites from Prague for the thematic exhibit. >A few more promised to bring a few more. I may complete with more of my >(modest) samples. >A last minute call for more samples still holds. Offers welcome! > >Should anybody still need basic info, please have a look at our 2 web sites: >http://meteorite.ensisheim.free.fr >or >www.ville-ensisheim.fr >or ask me to send you personally the last circular. > >In one week from now the big & funny blast will start folks! >Hope finding time to see you all! > >Thanks for reading, be happy and enjoy, > >Zelimir Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Universit? de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 From cynapse at charter.net Thu Jun 12 22:28:14 2008 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 22:28:14 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Let my moonpeople go! In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20080612180250.02846d58@pop.univ-mulhouse.fr> References: <49707.71.226.60.25.1213215025.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> <005b01c8cc5b$eef40980$8d5ae146@ATARIENGINE> <5.0.2.1.2.20080612180250.02846d58@pop.univ-mulhouse.fr> Message-ID: <3pm354tta3fp26pn53rsan84lr5n9hdten@4ax.com> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFnFtt8lqBc From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Thu Jun 12 23:38:34 2008 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 22:38:34 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] And the winner is-- PLUTOID! References: <49707.71.226.60.25.1213215025.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> <005b01c8cc5b$eef40980$8d5ae146@ATARIENGINE> Message-ID: <010101c8cd06$f5c25270$8d5ae146@ATARIENGINE> Hi, Jerry, List The "Plutoid" page of the Wikipedia rose to the rank of the 20th most edited page yesterday. http://www.wikirage.com/wiki/Plutoid/ There were 131 edits by unique editors. Here's the page so far. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plutoid The consensus (if that's what a Wikipedia page is) seems to be that only 2004 FY9 and 2003 EL61 are candidates, all others to be dumped. My guess is that 2003 EL61 will be dumped because of its shape. The Bad Astronomy forum, under the topic "IAU Throws Pluto A Bone" has a suggestion for a another name which I hadn't thought of (too old and out of touch): PLUTARDS http://www.bautforum.com/universe-today-story-comments/75316-iau-throws-pluto-bone-plutoid.html They also ask if the "Ceresoids" can be far behind? (I hope not.) It's hard to remember that in the year 2000, the discovery of 38628 Huya, a little 300-mile-diameter Plutino, was so rare. It was the biggest, brightest object beyond Neptune ever sighted, and there was talk of calling it the "tenth planet." It was soon trampled in a rush of much bigger objects, of course, and the IAU has gotten much better at ignoring them. There are a lot of "former" planets! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Solar_System_bodies_formerly_considered_planets#Former_classifications Galileo called the four big moons of Jupiter "planets." Cassini did the same for the five big moons of Saturn. In the asteroid zone, Ceres, Pallas, Juno, and Vesta were "official" planets, soon followed by Astrea, Hebe, Iris, Flora, Metis, Hygeia, Parthenope, Victoria, Egeria, Irene, and Eunomia! That's 15 planets! The planetary notion was dumped in 1851-1854, so it took 50 years to decide asteroids weren't planets. (So, between 1801 and 1843, there were 22 planets, and between 1843 and 1851, there were 23! 1854 to 1930, there were 8; 1930 to 2006, there were 9.) Pluto at least lasted for 76 years (and the talk about dumping it started in 1980 or after 50 years); it just took longer to accomplish (probably because it was the only "American" planet, or so it has been said, accusingly). The future of the planet category depends on what's Out There. IF there is nothing ever found much bigger than what has already been found, then the Outermost Solar System is just what the IAU is gambling that it is, namely, an ice-asteroid belt on the edge of the Solar System that thins away to nothing -- a bunch of Plutoids, inconsequential (the position of certain dynamicists and theoreticians of system formation who are annoyed that there is anything there, and were influential in that vote). I'm going to omit about 43 pages of discussion of the possible mass distribution of the Kuiper-Edgeworth Belt, the power-law coefficient, and statistical arguments about the largest possible object. Notice that several people, in response to the "Plutoid" decision, remarked: "Of course, if someone discovers a Mars-sized KBO, all this goes out the window..." I suspect they're doing similar calculations to what I am, which give a 40% chance of a Mars-sized and a 60% chance of a Mercury-sized object waiting to be found (and probably not in the ecliptic). If it happens, it will be a problem for "Plutoidic" camp. If we find a really Big One, they will be looking for a way out. Next proposal? Demote Mercury to a "Solar Asteroid" and Mars? Mars becomes "1 Mars," the largest member of the Asteroids (followed by 2 Ceres, 2 Pallas), and located on its inner edge, just like Pluto is located on the inner edge of the Plutoidic Zone, and it's all good again. Textbooks are already being re-written to say of Ceres: "it was realized that Ceres represented the first of a class of many similar bodies," the same language being used to describe Pluto. And all the Wiki's on "planets" are now fat with Mandarin justifications of IAU etiquette and definitions (and reducing the information about the actual bodies themselves). The Emperor has new clothes... There are few if any asteroids like Ceres, and I suspect there are few if any Plutoids "like" Pluto. The similarity referred to is that they are vaguely in the same part of the solar system! The so-called "similarities" have nothing to do with the physical nature of the objects, which to my mind is what counts. Galileo Galilei had some thoughts on naming things. What better source to consider when defining a planet? He wrote: "Names and attributes must be accommodated to the essence of things, and not the essence to the names, for things come first and names afterward." Sterling K. Webb ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry" To: "Sterling K. Webb" ; "Meteorite List" Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2008 2:35 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] And the winner is-- PLUTOID! > OK. It will no doubt come as a great surprise to the Executive > Committee of the IAU (henceforth referred to as "Executoids") Sterling, you never fail to charm your way into a most subtle form of humor while elucidating the nuts and bolts of a gritty, in this case, language dilemma. Jerry Flaherty From mark.ford at ssl.gb.com Fri Jun 13 04:05:59 2008 From: mark.ford at ssl.gb.com (Mark Ford) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 09:05:59 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] And the winner is-- PLUTOID! In-Reply-To: <010101c8cd06$f5c25270$8d5ae146@ATARIENGINE> References: <49707.71.226.60.25.1213215025.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu><005b01c8cc5b$eef40980$8d5ae146@ATARIENGINE> <010101c8cd06$f5c25270$8d5ae146@ATARIENGINE> Message-ID: <29A9DB45B84970458190D7D39BD42C4934F22B@gamma.ssl.atw> Is it me or are the IAU et al becoming more like Disney everyday? - Plutoids?!? Christ almighty. I rest my case regarding what I recently said about comets! - maybe time that we basically classify all icy/rocky objects as the same darn thing that they basically are (ROCKS!) and anything undergoing fusion is a 'Star'. The English language already has a system in place to describe objects, we soo don't need a bunch of new words to describe large rocks over smaller ones. Use common sense IAU, or leave the universe alone, it's done fine up until now without you mixing things up - yet a bloody again! Lol. Mark Ford -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Sterling K. Webb Sent: 13 June 2008 04:39 To: Jerry; Meteorite List Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] And the winner is-- PLUTOID! Hi, Jerry, List The "Plutoid" page of the Wikipedia rose to the rank of the 20th most edited page yesterday. http://www.wikirage.com/wiki/Plutoid/ There were 131 edits by unique editors. Here's the page so far. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plutoid The consensus (if that's what a Wikipedia page is) seems to be that only 2004 FY9 and 2003 EL61 are candidates, all others to be dumped. My guess is that 2003 EL61 will be dumped because of its shape. The Bad Astronomy forum, under the topic "IAU Throws Pluto A Bone" has a suggestion for a another name which I hadn't thought of (too old and out of touch): PLUTARDS http://www.bautforum.com/universe-today-story-comments/75316-iau-throws- pluto-bone-plutoid.html They also ask if the "Ceresoids" can be far behind? (I hope not.) It's hard to remember that in the year 2000, the discovery of 38628 Huya, a little 300-mile-diameter Plutino, was so rare. It was the biggest, brightest object beyond Neptune ever sighted, and there was talk of calling it the "tenth planet." It was soon trampled in a rush of much bigger objects, of course, and the IAU has gotten much better at ignoring them. There are a lot of "former" planets! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Solar_System_bodies_formerly_consid ered_planets#Former_classifications Galileo called the four big moons of Jupiter "planets." Cassini did the same for the five big moons of Saturn. In the asteroid zone, Ceres, Pallas, Juno, and Vesta were "official" planets, soon followed by Astrea, Hebe, Iris, Flora, Metis, Hygeia, Parthenope, Victoria, Egeria, Irene, and Eunomia! That's 15 planets! The planetary notion was dumped in 1851-1854, so it took 50 years to decide asteroids weren't planets. (So, between 1801 and 1843, there were 22 planets, and between 1843 and 1851, there were 23! 1854 to 1930, there were 8; 1930 to 2006, there were 9.) Pluto at least lasted for 76 years (and the talk about dumping it started in 1980 or after 50 years); it just took longer to accomplish (probably because it was the only "American" planet, or so it has been said, accusingly). The future of the planet category depends on what's Out There. IF there is nothing ever found much bigger than what has already been found, then the Outermost Solar System is just what the IAU is gambling that it is, namely, an ice-asteroid belt on the edge of the Solar System that thins away to nothing -- a bunch of Plutoids, inconsequential (the position of certain dynamicists and theoreticians of system formation who are annoyed that there is anything there, and were influential in that vote). I'm going to omit about 43 pages of discussion of the possible mass distribution of the Kuiper-Edgeworth Belt, the power-law coefficient, and statistical arguments about the largest possible object. Notice that several people, in response to the "Plutoid" decision, remarked: "Of course, if someone discovers a Mars-sized KBO, all this goes out the window..." I suspect they're doing similar calculations to what I am, which give a 40% chance of a Mars-sized and a 60% chance of a Mercury-sized object waiting to be found (and probably not in the ecliptic). If it happens, it will be a problem for "Plutoidic" camp. If we find a really Big One, they will be looking for a way out. Next proposal? Demote Mercury to a "Solar Asteroid" and Mars? Mars becomes "1 Mars," the largest member of the Asteroids (followed by 2 Ceres, 2 Pallas), and located on its inner edge, just like Pluto is located on the inner edge of the Plutoidic Zone, and it's all good again. Textbooks are already being re-written to say of Ceres: "it was realized that Ceres represented the first of a class of many similar bodies," the same language being used to describe Pluto. And all the Wiki's on "planets" are now fat with Mandarin justifications of IAU etiquette and definitions (and reducing the information about the actual bodies themselves). The Emperor has new clothes... There are few if any asteroids like Ceres, and I suspect there are few if any Plutoids "like" Pluto. The similarity referred to is that they are vaguely in the same part of the solar system! The so-called "similarities" have nothing to do with the physical nature of the objects, which to my mind is what counts. Galileo Galilei had some thoughts on naming things. What better source to consider when defining a planet? He wrote: "Names and attributes must be accommodated to the essence of things, and not the essence to the names, for things come first and names afterward." Sterling K. Webb ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry" To: "Sterling K. Webb" ; "Meteorite List" Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2008 2:35 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] And the winner is-- PLUTOID! > OK. It will no doubt come as a great surprise to the Executive > Committee of the IAU (henceforth referred to as "Executoids") Sterling, you never fail to charm your way into a most subtle form of humor while elucidating the nuts and bolts of a gritty, in this case, language dilemma. Jerry Flaherty ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us. Email info at ssl.gb.com. You should not copy or use this email or attachment(s) for any purpose nor disclose their contents to any other person. GENERAL STATEMENT: Southern Scientific Ltd's computer systems may be monitored and communications carried on them recorded, to secure the effective operation of the system and for other lawful purposes. Registered address Rectory Farm Rd, Sompting, Lancing, W Sussex BN15 0DP. Company No 1800317 From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Fri Jun 13 08:00:39 2008 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 08:00:39 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 13, 2008 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/June_13_2008.html **************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best 2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102) From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com Fri Jun 13 13:02:39 2008 From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 10:02:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] sikote-alin and mali forsale (AD) Message-ID: <443223.13334.qm@web57805.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi list just a quick note.I have an 82 gram very nice flowlined and oriented sikote-alin and a 31 gram fragmented individual of erg chech (mali) forsale.I want $125 for the sa and $100 for the mail.The mali has some nice orientation with flowlines.I will also pay shipping.Let me know off list. Steve R.Arnold,chicago,Ill,Usa!! ???? The Asteroid Belt! ??? http://chicagometeorites.net/ ??? Collecting Meteorites since 06/19/1999 ??? Ebay I.D. Illinoismeteorites From epgrondine at yahoo.com Fri Jun 13 13:26:41 2008 From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 10:26:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] New Class Name Message-ID: <665926.69002.qm@web36901.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi Sterling, If they're going to drop TNO, then is "Plutons" taken? E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas From mmorgan at mhmeteorites.com Fri Jun 13 13:51:35 2008 From: mmorgan at mhmeteorites.com (mmorgan at mhmeteorites.com) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 17:51:35 +0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD-pallsites, new CK's, bilanga, updated site Message-ID: <1733690255-1213379618-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1603883931-@bxe180.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Hi List: I have just updated my site with some very nice items. Please visit www.mhmeteorites.com for more details. List members will get special pricing, so please email me if you are interested in purchasing a specimen. Thanks, Matt Morgan Mile High Meteorites ---------------------- Matt Morgan Mile High Meteorites http://www.mhmeteorites.com P.O. Box 151293 Lakewood, CO 80215 USA From tommy2005 at hvc.rr.com Fri Jun 13 14:06:09 2008 From: tommy2005 at hvc.rr.com (Tom Randall (KB2SMS)) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 14:06:09 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] "We may be extraterrestrials after all" Message-ID: <10F63FCC-522B-41DD-B69B-F4ABDBDE45CB@hvc.rr.com> http://www.tgdaily.com/html_tmp/content-view-37940-113.html --- http://home.hvc.rr.com/kb2sms/ From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Fri Jun 13 17:51:27 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 14:51:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander Inspects Delivered Soil Samples Message-ID: <200806132151.OAA29488@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2008-109 NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander Inspects Delivered Soil Samples Jet Propulsion Laboratory June 13, 2008 TUCSON, Ariz. -- New observations from NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander provide the most magnified view ever seen of Martian soil, showing particles clumping together even at the smallest visible scale. In the past two days, two instruments on the lander deck -- a microscope and a bake-and-sniff analyzer -- have begun inspecting soil samples delivered by the scoop on Phoenix's Robotic Arm. "This is the first time since the Viking missions three decades ago that a sample is being studied inside an instrument on Mars," said Phoenix Principal Investigator Peter Smith of the University of Arizona, Tucson. Stickiness of the soil at the Phoenix site has presented challenges for delivering samples, but also presents scientific opportunities. "Understanding the soil is a major goal of this mission and the soil is a bit different than we expected," Smith said. "There could be real discoveries to come as we analyze this soil with our various instruments. We have just the right instruments for the job." Images from Phoenix's Optical Microscope show nearly 1,000 separate soil particles, down to sizes smaller than one-tenth the diameter of a human hair. At least four distinct minerals are seen. "It's been more than 11 years since we had the idea to send a microscope to Mars and I'm absolutely gobsmacked that we're now looking at the soil of Mars at a resolution that has never been seen before," said Tom Pike of Imperial College London. He is a Phoenix co-investigator working on the lander's Microscopy, Electrochemistry and Conductivity Analyzer. The sample includes some larger, black, glassy particles as well as smaller reddish ones. "We may be looking at a history of the soil," said Pike. "It appears that original particles of volcanic glass have weathered down to smaller particles with higher concentration of iron." The fine particles in the soil sample closely resemble particles of airborne dust examined earlier by the microscope. Atmospheric dust at the Phoenix site has remained about the same day-to-day so far, said Phoenix co-investigator and atmospheric scientist Nilton Renno of the University of Michigan, Ann Arbor. "We've seen no major dust clouds at the landing site during the mission so far," Renno said. "That's not a surprise because we landed when dust activity is at a minimum. But we expect to see big dust storms at the end of the mission. Some of us will be very excited to see some of those dust storms reach the lander." Studying dust on Mars helps scientists understand atmospheric dust on Earth, which is important because dust is a significant factor in global climate change. "We've learned there is well-mixed dust in the Martian atmosphere, much more mixed than on Earth, and that's a surprise," Renno said. Rather than particles settling into dust layers, strong turbulence mixes them uniformly from the surface to a few kilometers above the surface. Scientists spoke at a news briefing today at the University of Arizona, where new color views of the spacecraft's surroundings were shown. "We are taking a high-quality, 360-degree look at all of Mars that we can see from our landing site in color and stereo," said Mark Lemmon, Surface Stereo Imager lead from Texas A&M University, College Station. "These images are important to provide the context of where the lander is on the surface. The panorama also allows us to look beyond our workspace to see how the polygon structures connect with the rest of the area. We can identify interesting things beyond our reach and then use the camera's filters to investigate their properties from afar." The Phoenix mission is led by Smith at the University of Arizona with project management at JPL and development partnership at Lockheed Martin, Denver. International contributions come from the Canadian Space Agency; the University of Neuchatel, Switzerland; the universities of Copenhagen and Aarhus, Denmark; Max Planck Institute, Germany; and the Finnish Meteorological Institute. For more about Phoenix, visit: http://www.nasa.gov/phoenix and http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Media contacts: Guy Webster 818-354-6278 Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. guy.webster at jpl.nasa.gov Dwayne Brown 202-358-1726 NASA Headquarters, Washington dwayne.c.brown at nasa.gov Sara Hammond 520-626-1974 University of Arizona, Tucson shammond at lpl.arizona.edu 2008-109 From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Fri Jun 13 17:53:44 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 14:53:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars Odyssey THEMIS Images: June 9-13, 2008 Message-ID: <200806132153.OAA01387@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> MARS ODYSSEY THEMIS IMAGES June 9-13, 2008 o Surface Texture (Released 09 June 2008) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20080609a o Crater Clouds (Released 10 June 2008) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20080610a o Slope Streaks (Released 11 June 2008) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20080611a o Gullies (Released 12 June 2008) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20080612a o Mix of Textures (Released 13 June 2008) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20080613a All of the THEMIS images are archived here: http://themis.asu.edu/latest.html NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory manages the 2001 Mars Odyssey mission for NASA's Office of Space Science, Washington, D.C. The Thermal Emission Imaging System (THEMIS) was developed by Arizona State University, Tempe, in co.oration with Raytheon Santa Barbara Remote Sensing. The THEMIS investigation is led by Dr. Philip Christensen at Arizona State University. Lockheed Martin Astronautics, Denver, is the prime contractor for the Odyssey project, and developed and built the orbiter. Mission operations are conducted jointly from Lockheed Martin and from JPL, a division of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena. From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Fri Jun 13 18:54:55 2008 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 15:54:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Happy 10th Birthday Portales Valley Message-ID: <950302.59651.qm@web33108.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Ten years ago today, June 13, 1998, one of the weirdest and most beautiful chondrites known fell in Portales, New Mexico. I got a phone call from Jack Schrader, who said he saw it on the 10 pm news in Tucson that a large meteorite had fallen. Within an hour I was in my car on the road to New Mexico. This was my second fall chase in 3 months, as Monahans had fallen in Texas in March of 1998. Portales was one of my favorite meteorite hunts, I found one stone, and bought many more for a total of more than 15 kilos. This was my first big score, and drove me to spend every minute on meteorites. Happy Birthday to one of my favorite meteorites, it is hard to believe that a decade has passed! Michael Farmer From meteoritefinder at yahoo.com Fri Jun 13 19:04:36 2008 From: meteoritefinder at yahoo.com (Robert Woolard) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 16:04:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Happy 10th Birthday Portales Valley In-Reply-To: <950302.59651.qm@web33108.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4722.43741.qm@web38906.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Amen to that! Robert Woolard --- Michael Farmer wrote: > Ten years ago today, June 13, 1998, one of the > weirdest and most beautiful chondrites known fell in > Portales, New Mexico. > I got a phone call from Jack Schrader, who said he > saw it on the 10 pm news in Tucson that a large > meteorite had fallen. Within an hour I was in my car > on the road to New Mexico. This was my second fall > chase in 3 months, as Monahans had fallen in Texas > in March of 1998. > Portales was one of my favorite meteorite hunts, I > found one stone, and bought many more for a total of > more than 15 kilos. This was my first big score, and > drove me to spend every minute on meteorites. > Happy Birthday to one of my favorite meteorites, it > is hard to believe that a decade has passed! > Michael Farmer > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From entropydave at ntlworld.com Sat Jun 14 04:46:25 2008 From: entropydave at ntlworld.com (Dave Harris) Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 09:46:25 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD- eBay 0.45g Barwell Message-ID: <7832B2BB1D9D4371B77F3B93EB13BCDA@pitstoppc> Hi, I've a nice 0.45 g slice on Fleabay going in a few hours - interested, anyone?! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=270245099023 Best! dave IMCA #0092 Sec.BIMS. www.bimsociety.org From cynapse at charter.net Sat Jun 14 10:29:07 2008 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 10:29:07 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] A possible 'wrong and a probable 'wrong in the news In-Reply-To: <950302.59651.qm@web33108.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <950302.59651.qm@web33108.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2008/06/13/Giant_meteorite_found_in_Sweden/UPI-38431213396355/ STOCKHOLM, Sweden, June 13 (UPI) -- A massive meteorite weighing a staggering 2,607 pounds has been found near the northern Swedish village of Kitkiojarvi, officials say. Thomas Osterberg, one of the two people who found it, said it was the biggest meteorite ever found in Sweden, the Swedish news agency TT reported. He said it was egg-shaped, about one meter high with a diameter of about 70 centimeters at its broadest. The finders say they hope to sell the whopper to the Swedish Museum of Natural History. "It must stay in Sweden," Osterberg said. http://www.winsfordguardian.co.uk/news/latestnews/3163460.Man_claims_a_meteorite_left_a_hole_in_his_garden/ A WINSFORD man had an unwelcome visitor on Sunday night in the form of a small meteorite. Graham Brooks, 37, a heavy goods vehicle fitter, lives at his mother Christine?s house at Railway Cottages in Rilshaw Lane. He was sitting at home looking at wedding magazines with his partner Karen at around 10.30pm when he heard a loud bang outside. When the couple went to see what had happened, they found a pile of stones and soil up against their caravan in the back garden and a small golf-ball sized hole in the ground leaving bits of silver fragments around it. Graham said: ?It felt like a gas cylinder exploded or something and there was a very loud bang.? The incident was believed to have been caused by a small meteorite hitting the ground that caused soil and stones to make dents in the caravan. Graham added: ?I?ve never seen or heard anything like it before. ?If it had been three feet closer then it would have come through the skylight in the roof and hit us. ?It was as loud as a gunshot and the neighbours were gobsmacked. ?I was very shocked by the incident and we?re supposed to be getting married in September as well.? Graham spoke to Terry O? Brian, who works for Manchester Museum, who asked Graham to post the bits to him for analysis but believes it might have been a meteorite from Graham?s description. It is estimated to have caused around ?1,000 worth of damage to the caravan. Graham and his partner Karen are currently speaking with their insurance company to see if they are covered. From info at niger-meteorite-recon.de Sat Jun 14 10:56:59 2008 From: info at niger-meteorite-recon.de (Dr. Svend Buhl) Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 16:56:59 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] A possible 'wrong and a probable 'wrong in the news References: <950302.59651.qm@web33108.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <004401c8ce2e$e65ad8b0$6401a8c0@HOME> as for the find near Kitkiojarvi, why is that supposed to be a "wrong" or "probable wrong"? The find location in mind this sounds rather like a big Muonionalusta to me. If so, my sincere congratulations to Thomas Osterberg! Svend ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darren Garrison" To: Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2008 4:29 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] A possible 'wrong and a probable 'wrong in the news http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2008/06/13/Giant_meteorite_found_in_Sweden/UPI-38431213396355/ STOCKHOLM, Sweden, June 13 (UPI) -- A massive meteorite weighing a staggering 2,607 pounds has been found near the northern Swedish village of Kitkiojarvi, officials say. Thomas Osterberg, one of the two people who found it, said it was the biggest meteorite ever found in Sweden, the Swedish news agency TT reported. He said it was egg-shaped, about one meter high with a diameter of about 70 centimeters at its broadest. The finders say they hope to sell the whopper to the Swedish Museum of Natural History. "It must stay in Sweden," Osterberg said. http://www.winsfordguardian.co.uk/news/latestnews/3163460.Man_claims_a_meteorite_left_a_hole_in_his_garden/ A WINSFORD man had an unwelcome visitor on Sunday night in the form of a small meteorite. Graham Brooks, 37, a heavy goods vehicle fitter, lives at his mother Christine's house at Railway Cottages in Rilshaw Lane. He was sitting at home looking at wedding magazines with his partner Karen at around 10.30pm when he heard a loud bang outside. When the couple went to see what had happened, they found a pile of stones and soil up against their caravan in the back garden and a small golf-ball sized hole in the ground leaving bits of silver fragments around it. Graham said: "It felt like a gas cylinder exploded or something and there was a very loud bang." The incident was believed to have been caused by a small meteorite hitting the ground that caused soil and stones to make dents in the caravan. Graham added: "I've never seen or heard anything like it before. "If it had been three feet closer then it would have come through the skylight in the roof and hit us. "It was as loud as a gunshot and the neighbours were gobsmacked. "I was very shocked by the incident and we're supposed to be getting married in September as well." Graham spoke to Terry O' Brian, who works for Manchester Museum, who asked Graham to post the bits to him for analysis but believes it might have been a meteorite from Graham's description. It is estimated to have caused around ?1,000 worth of damage to the caravan. Graham and his partner Karen are currently speaking with their insurance company to see if they are covered. ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Sat Jun 14 11:09:10 2008 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 08:09:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] A possible 'wrong and a probable 'wrong in the news In-Reply-To: <004401c8ce2e$e65ad8b0$6401a8c0@HOME> Message-ID: <818761.70235.qm@web33104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I know Thomas Osterberg, we hunted with them and their family last year in Muonionalusta. His daughter found a ~400 kilo piece last year, so it looks like they found the new main-mass this year. Congrats to them, I will miss the white nights this year, I am not going ot Sweden, as I have other plans for this summer that involve the southern hemisphere, not the Arctic. As the for the UK object, sounds pretty lame to me. Michael Farmer --- On Sat, 6/14/08, Dr. Svend Buhl wrote: > From: Dr. Svend Buhl > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A possible 'wrong and a probable 'wrong in the news > To: "Meteorite Mailing List" > Date: Saturday, June 14, 2008, 8:56 AM > as for the find near Kitkiojarvi, why is that supposed to be > a "wrong" or > "probable wrong"? The find location in mind this > sounds rather like a big > Muonionalusta to me. If so, my sincere congratulations to > Thomas Osterberg! > > Svend > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Darren Garrison" > > To: > Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2008 4:29 PM > Subject: [meteorite-list] A possible 'wrong and a > probable 'wrong in the > news > > > http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2008/06/13/Giant_meteorite_found_in_Sweden/UPI-38431213396355/ > > STOCKHOLM, Sweden, June 13 (UPI) -- A massive meteorite > weighing a > staggering > 2,607 pounds has been found near the northern Swedish > village of > Kitkiojarvi, > officials say. > > Thomas Osterberg, one of the two people who found it, said > it was the > biggest > meteorite ever found in Sweden, the Swedish news agency TT > reported. > > He said it was egg-shaped, about one meter high with a > diameter of about 70 > centimeters at its broadest. > > The finders say they hope to sell the whopper to the > Swedish Museum of > Natural > History. > > "It must stay in Sweden," Osterberg said. > > > > > > > http://www.winsfordguardian.co.uk/news/latestnews/3163460.Man_claims_a_meteorite_left_a_hole_in_his_garden/ > > A WINSFORD man had an unwelcome visitor on Sunday night in > the form of a > small > meteorite. > > Graham Brooks, 37, a heavy goods vehicle fitter, lives at > his mother > Christine's > house at Railway Cottages in Rilshaw Lane. > > He was sitting at home looking at wedding magazines with > his partner Karen > at > around 10.30pm when he heard a loud bang outside. > > When the couple went to see what had happened, they found a > pile of stones > and > soil up against their caravan in the back garden and a > small golf-ball sized > hole in the ground leaving bits of silver fragments around > it. > > Graham said: "It felt like a gas cylinder exploded or > something and there > was a > very loud bang." > > The incident was believed to have been caused by a small > meteorite hitting > the > ground that caused soil and stones to make dents in the > caravan. > > Graham added: "I've never seen or heard anything > like it before. > > "If it had been three feet closer then it would have > come through the > skylight > in the roof and hit us. > > "It was as loud as a gunshot and the neighbours were > gobsmacked. > > "I was very shocked by the incident and we're > supposed to be getting married > in > September as well." > > Graham spoke to Terry O' Brian, who works for > Manchester Museum, who asked > Graham to post the bits to him for analysis but believes it > might have been > a > meteorite from Graham's description. > > It is estimated to have caused around ?1,000 worth of > damage to the caravan. > > Graham and his partner Karen are currently speaking with > their insurance > company > to see if they are covered. > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From pshugar at clearwire.net Fri Jun 13 11:15:08 2008 From: pshugar at clearwire.net (Pete Shugar) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 10:15:08 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] A possible 'wrong and a probable 'wrong in the news References: <950302.59651.qm@web33108.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001401c8cd68$45dfd910$0201a8c0@laptop> You just gotta love a word like "gobsmacked". Any article with a word like this has just got to be genuine. Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darren Garrison" To: Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2008 9:29 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] A possible 'wrong and a probable 'wrong in the news http://www.winsfordguardian.co.uk/news/latestnews/3163460.Man_claims_a_meteorite_left_a_hole_in_his_garden/>> A WINSFORD man had an unwelcome visitor on Sunday night in the form of asmall> meteorite.>> Graham Brooks, 37, a heavy goods vehicle fitter, lives at his motherChristine's> house at Railway Cottages in Rilshaw Lane.>> He was sitting at home looking at wedding magazines with his partner Karenat> around 10.30pm when he heard a loud bang outside.>> When the couple went to see what had happened, they found a pile of stonesand> soil up against their caravan in the back garden and a small golf-ballsized> hole in the ground leaving bits of silver fragments around it.>> Graham said: "It felt like a gas cylinder exploded or something and therewas a> very loud bang.">> The incident was believed to have been caused by a small meteorite hittingthe> ground that caused soil and stones to make dents in the caravan.>> Graham added: "I've never seen or heard anything like it before.! >> "If it had been three feet closer then it would have come through theskylight> in the roof and hit us.>> "It was as loud as a gunshot and the neighbours were gobsmacked.>> "I was very shocked by the incident and we're supposed to be gettingmarried in> September as well.">> Graham spoke to Terry O' Brian, who works for Manchester Museum, who asked> Graham to post the bits to him for analysis but believes it might havebeen a> meteorite from Graham's description.>> It is estimated to have caused around ?1,000 worth of damage to thecaravan.>> Graham and his partner Karen are currently speaking with their insurancecompany> to see if they are covered.> ______________________________________________> http://www.meteoritecentral.com> Meteorite-list mailing list> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list> From pekka.savolainen at dlc.fi Sat Jun 14 11:17:07 2008 From: pekka.savolainen at dlc.fi (Pekka Savolainen) Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 18:17:07 +0300 Subject: [meteorite-list] A possible 'wrong and a probable 'wrong in the news In-Reply-To: <818761.70235.qm@web33104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <818761.70235.qm@web33104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4853E0F3.4000402@dlc.fi> Think there?s nothing wrong with this; http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/1.1197635/jattemeteorit-hittad-i-tornedalen or perhaps just wrong side of the border of Sweden and Finland ... best, pekka s Michael Farmer kirjoitti: > I know Thomas Osterberg, we hunted with them and their family last year in Muonionalusta. His daughter found a ~400 kilo piece last year, so it looks like they found the new main-mass this year. > Congrats to them, I will miss the white nights this year, I am not going ot Sweden, as I have other plans for this summer that involve the southern hemisphere, not the Arctic. > As the for the UK object, sounds pretty lame to me. > Michael Farmer > > > --- On Sat, 6/14/08, Dr. Svend Buhl wrote: > > >> From: Dr. Svend Buhl >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A possible 'wrong and a probable 'wrong in the news >> To: "Meteorite Mailing List" >> Date: Saturday, June 14, 2008, 8:56 AM >> as for the find near Kitkiojarvi, why is that supposed to be >> a "wrong" or >> "probable wrong"? The find location in mind this >> sounds rather like a big >> Muonionalusta to me. If so, my sincere congratulations to >> Thomas Osterberg! >> >> Svend >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Darren Garrison" >> >> To: >> Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2008 4:29 PM >> Subject: [meteorite-list] A possible 'wrong and a >> probable 'wrong in the >> news >> >> >> http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2008/06/13/Giant_meteorite_found_in_Sweden/UPI-38431213396355/ >> >> STOCKHOLM, Sweden, June 13 (UPI) -- A massive meteorite >> weighing a >> staggering >> 2,607 pounds has been found near the northern Swedish >> village of >> Kitkiojarvi, >> officials say. >> >> Thomas Osterberg, one of the two people who found it, said >> it was the >> biggest >> meteorite ever found in Sweden, the Swedish news agency TT >> reported. >> >> He said it was egg-shaped, about one meter high with a >> diameter of about 70 >> centimeters at its broadest. >> >> The finders say they hope to sell the whopper to the >> Swedish Museum of >> Natural >> History. >> >> "It must stay in Sweden," Osterberg said. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> http://www.winsfordguardian.co.uk/news/latestnews/3163460.Man_claims_a_meteorite_left_a_hole_in_his_garden/ >> >> A WINSFORD man had an unwelcome visitor on Sunday night in >> the form of a >> small >> meteorite. >> >> Graham Brooks, 37, a heavy goods vehicle fitter, lives at >> his mother >> Christine's >> house at Railway Cottages in Rilshaw Lane. >> >> He was sitting at home looking at wedding magazines with >> his partner Karen >> at >> around 10.30pm when he heard a loud bang outside. >> >> When the couple went to see what had happened, they found a >> pile of stones >> and >> soil up against their caravan in the back garden and a >> small golf-ball sized >> hole in the ground leaving bits of silver fragments around >> it. >> >> Graham said: "It felt like a gas cylinder exploded or >> something and there >> was a >> very loud bang." >> >> The incident was believed to have been caused by a small >> meteorite hitting >> the >> ground that caused soil and stones to make dents in the >> caravan. >> >> Graham added: "I've never seen or heard anything >> like it before. >> >> "If it had been three feet closer then it would have >> come through the >> skylight >> in the roof and hit us. >> >> "It was as loud as a gunshot and the neighbours were >> gobsmacked. >> >> "I was very shocked by the incident and we're >> supposed to be getting married >> in >> September as well." >> >> Graham spoke to Terry O' Brian, who works for >> Manchester Museum, who asked >> Graham to post the bits to him for analysis but believes it >> might have been >> a >> meteorite from Graham's description. >> >> It is estimated to have caused around ?1,000 worth of >> damage to the caravan. >> >> Graham and his partner Karen are currently speaking with >> their insurance >> company >> to see if they are covered. >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > -- Solar Gems Pekka Savolainen Jokiharjuntie 4 FI-71330 Rasala FINLAND GSM + 358 400 818 912 pekka.savolainen at dlc.fi Member of IMCA 5776 www.imca.cc From cynapse at charter.net Sat Jun 14 13:29:42 2008 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 13:29:42 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] A possible 'wrong and a probable 'wrong in the news In-Reply-To: <004401c8ce2e$e65ad8b0$6401a8c0@HOME> References: <950302.59651.qm@web33108.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <004401c8ce2e$e65ad8b0$6401a8c0@HOME> Message-ID: <9sv7549cspanblvqclr0brg4kudbf5f1ak@4ax.com> On Sat, 14 Jun 2008 16:56:59 +0200, you wrote: >as for the find near Kitkiojarvi, why is that supposed to be a "wrong" or >"probable wrong"? It was the "possible" 'wrong-- simply because most of the time someone claims to have found a huge meteorite-- without showing the huge meteorite or professional verification of the huge meteorite-- it turns out to be not a huge meteorite. From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Sat Jun 14 13:36:09 2008 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 10:36:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] A possible 'wrong and a probable 'wrong in the news In-Reply-To: <9sv7549cspanblvqclr0brg4kudbf5f1ak@4ax.com> Message-ID: <314374.25748.qm@web33102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> This is true, but I can confirm that this is real, he has found many meteorites up there. Mike --- On Sat, 6/14/08, Darren Garrison wrote: > From: Darren Garrison > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A possible 'wrong and a probable 'wrong in the news > To: "Meteorite Mailing List" > Date: Saturday, June 14, 2008, 11:29 AM > On Sat, 14 Jun 2008 16:56:59 +0200, you wrote: > > >as for the find near Kitkiojarvi, why is that supposed > to be a "wrong" or > >"probable wrong"? > > It was the "possible" 'wrong-- simply because > most of the time someone claims to > have found a huge meteorite-- without showing the huge > meteorite or professional > verification of the huge meteorite-- it turns out to be not > a huge meteorite. > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Sat Jun 14 13:48:43 2008 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 19:48:43 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] A possible 'wrong and a probable 'wrong in thenews In-Reply-To: <314374.25748.qm@web33102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <9sv7549cspanblvqclr0brg4kudbf5f1ak@4ax.com> <314374.25748.qm@web33102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <008d01c8ce46$e4c7efc0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Yep, what the real Steve Arnold is for USA, is Thomas Oesterberg for Europe. A truly sensational find! A very nice person he's too, you can contact him through this homepage: http://www.muonionalustameteorites.com/ Best! Martin -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Michael Farmer Gesendet: Samstag, 14. Juni 2008 19:36 An: Meteorite Mailing List; cynapse at charter.net Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] A possible 'wrong and a probable 'wrong in thenews This is true, but I can confirm that this is real, he has found many meteorites up there. Mike --- On Sat, 6/14/08, Darren Garrison wrote: > From: Darren Garrison > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A possible 'wrong and a probable 'wrong in the news > To: "Meteorite Mailing List" > Date: Saturday, June 14, 2008, 11:29 AM > On Sat, 14 Jun 2008 16:56:59 +0200, you wrote: > > >as for the find near Kitkiojarvi, why is that supposed > to be a "wrong" or > >"probable wrong"? > > It was the "possible" 'wrong-- simply because > most of the time someone claims to > have found a huge meteorite-- without showing the huge > meteorite or professional > verification of the huge meteorite-- it turns out to be not > a huge meteorite. > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Sat Jun 14 16:55:34 2008 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 14 Jun 2008 20:55:34 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] Happy 10th Birthday Portales Valley Message-ID: Mike Farmer writes: "I found one stone, and bought many more for a total of more than 15 kilos." and: "Happy Birthday to one of my favorite meteorites" A very enthusiastic Mike Farmer sent me this mail on Wed, 22 Jul 1998: "Bernd, I just returned from the UofA where most of the analysis is being done. They loved this piece. It is quite obvious that this chondrite was smashed in a huge shock event and metal flowed into the stone crushed pieces. I wish they were all this nice! I had to pay over $...*/ gram for this slice and I will try to get another since it is so incredible." * amount canceled by me because I don't know if Mike wants to keep this private Best wishes from the happy owner of an 11.5-gram metal-poor slice (M. Farmer), a 3.9-gram metal-rich slice (M. Blood) and a PV thin section (M. Farmer), Bernd From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Sat Jun 14 17:21:09 2008 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 14 Jun 2008 21:21:09 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] Happy 10th Birthday Portales Valley - some more tidbits of interest Message-ID: Darryl Pitt about Portales Valley: Darryl Pitt, who on behalf of the Macovich Collection has acquired nearly 10 kg of Portales Valley, reports that Netschaevo, a chemically anomalous medium octahedrite with H6 silicate inclusions appears to be similar to Portales Valley. Said Pitt, "It would seem that Portales Valley may end up being classified as either a silicated or anomalous iron, and not a mesosiderite or H6 as has previously been reported." And Jeff Grossman commented: "Obviously there is disagreement among scientists on what to call PV. I personally see no reason to call it type 7, a primitive achondrite, an achondrite or to coin a new term. If I take the conclusions of the Ruzicka study as a given, that you had H6 material near its peak metamorphic temperature, with additional shock heating and mobilization of metal- rich melt, then I see no reason not call it an H chondrite impact melt breccia in which the clasts are dominantly type 6." Cheers, Bernd From info at niger-meteorite-recon.de Sat Jun 14 17:44:39 2008 From: info at niger-meteorite-recon.de (Dr. Svend Buhl) Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 23:44:39 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ensisheim - 713g unclass. CO3 - AD Message-ID: <0d3701c8ce67$d9284ef0$6401a8c0@HOME> Dear all, Ensisheim is approaching and I am packing my bags. I do not plan to bring any particular meteorites to sell but should you be interested in any specimens of my sales inventory (http://www.meteorite-recon.com/en/meteoriten_verkauf.htm) let me know and I will see if I can bring them. Apart from the meteorites listed for sale on my website I have a yet unclassified CO3 of 713g plus a 23g classification sample to offer. Let me know if interested and I will send some images. I will part wit this particular rarity for 2300 EUR. Looking forward to meet many of you in France. cheers Svend ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dr. Svend Buhl" To: Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2008 8:37 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A possible 'wrong and a probable 'wrong in thenews > > Darren, that was not meant as criticism. I just supposed you may have > additional information not provided in the article. When I checked the > site I found it plots exactly at Muonionalusta, give or take a few clicks. > However, thanks for sharing the news. > > Svend > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Darren Garrison" > To: "Meteorite Mailing List" > Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2008 7:29 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A possible 'wrong and a probable 'wrong in > thenews > > >> On Sat, 14 Jun 2008 16:56:59 +0200, you wrote: >> >>>as for the find near Kitkiojarvi, why is that supposed to be a "wrong" or >>>"probable wrong"? >> >> It was the "possible" 'wrong-- simply because most of the time someone >> claims to >> have found a huge meteorite-- without showing the huge meteorite or >> professional >> verification of the huge meteorite-- it turns out to be not a huge >> meteorite. >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From bigpineartifacts at yahoo.com Sat Jun 14 18:19:34 2008 From: bigpineartifacts at yahoo.com (mckinney trammell) Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 15:19:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Happy 10th Birthday Portales Valley In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <888110.20501.qm@web53206.mail.re2.yahoo.com> good stuff- i got a smoker from hardy that is 70% ETCHED IRON that resides royally in my frame of finer skyrox. --- On Sat, 6/14/08, bernd.pauli at paulinet.de wrote: > From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de > Subject: [meteorite-list] Happy 10th Birthday Portales Valley > To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Saturday, June 14, 2008, 4:55 PM > Mike Farmer writes: > > "I found one stone, and bought many more for a total > of more than 15 kilos." > > and: "Happy Birthday to one of my favorite > meteorites" > > > A very enthusiastic Mike Farmer sent me this mail on Wed, > 22 Jul 1998: > > "Bernd, I just returned from the UofA where most of > the analysis is being done. > They loved this piece. It is quite obvious that this > chondrite was smashed in > a huge shock event and metal flowed into the stone crushed > pieces. I wish they > were all this nice! I had to pay over $...*/ gram for this > slice and I will try > to get another since it is so incredible." > > * amount canceled by me because I don't know if Mike > wants to keep this private > > Best wishes from the happy owner of an 11.5-gram > metal-poor slice (M. Farmer), > a 3.9-gram metal-rich slice (M. Blood) and a PV thin > section (M. Farmer), > > Bernd > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From freequarks at gmail.com Sat Jun 14 21:12:14 2008 From: freequarks at gmail.com (Dark Matter) Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 19:12:14 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Happy 10th Birthday Portales Valley In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <822da19a0806141812qeba2675oba8bfbadfe714027@mail.gmail.com> Hi Bernd and All, For a close up view of PV, check out Tom's Micro Visions article on it. I suspect that piece might be the PV with the finest polish in the world. Thanks Tom! -Martin On Sat, Jun 14, 2008 at 9:55 PM, wrote: > Mike Farmer writes: > > "I found one stone, and bought many more for a total of more than 15 kilos." > > and: "Happy Birthday to one of my favorite meteorites" > > > A very enthusiastic Mike Farmer sent me this mail on Wed, 22 Jul 1998: > > "Bernd, I just returned from the UofA where most of the analysis is being done. > They loved this piece. It is quite obvious that this chondrite was smashed in > a huge shock event and metal flowed into the stone crushed pieces. I wish they > were all this nice! I had to pay over $...*/ gram for this slice and I will try > to get another since it is so incredible." > > * amount canceled by me because I don't know if Mike wants to keep this private > > Best wishes from the happy owner of an 11.5-gram metal-poor slice (M. Farmer), > a 3.9-gram metal-rich slice (M. Blood) and a PV thin section (M. Farmer), > > Bernd > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From freequarks at gmail.com Sat Jun 14 21:13:09 2008 From: freequarks at gmail.com (Dark Matter) Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 19:13:09 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Happy 10th Birthday Portales Valley In-Reply-To: <822da19a0806141812qeba2675oba8bfbadfe714027@mail.gmail.com> References: <822da19a0806141812qeba2675oba8bfbadfe714027@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <822da19a0806141813g46be9c46p79f7ba5a49d2bdbd@mail.gmail.com> Sorry, forgot the link: http://www.meteorite-times.com/Back_Links/2006/September/Micro_Visions.htm happy viewing. On Sat, Jun 14, 2008 at 7:12 PM, Dark Matter wrote: > Hi Bernd and All, > > For a close up view of PV, check out Tom's Micro Visions article on > it. I suspect that piece might be the PV with the finest polish in the > world. > > Thanks Tom! > > -Martin > > > > On Sat, Jun 14, 2008 at 9:55 PM, wrote: >> Mike Farmer writes: >> >> "I found one stone, and bought many more for a total of more than 15 kilos." >> >> and: "Happy Birthday to one of my favorite meteorites" >> >> >> A very enthusiastic Mike Farmer sent me this mail on Wed, 22 Jul 1998: >> >> "Bernd, I just returned from the UofA where most of the analysis is being done. >> They loved this piece. It is quite obvious that this chondrite was smashed in >> a huge shock event and metal flowed into the stone crushed pieces. I wish they >> were all this nice! I had to pay over $...*/ gram for this slice and I will try >> to get another since it is so incredible." >> >> * amount canceled by me because I don't know if Mike wants to keep this private >> >> Best wishes from the happy owner of an 11.5-gram metal-poor slice (M. Farmer), >> a 3.9-gram metal-rich slice (M. Blood) and a PV thin section (M. Farmer), >> >> Bernd >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > From freequarks at gmail.com Sat Jun 14 21:13:09 2008 From: freequarks at gmail.com (Dark Matter) Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 19:13:09 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Happy 10th Birthday Portales Valley In-Reply-To: <822da19a0806141812qeba2675oba8bfbadfe714027@mail.gmail.com> References: <822da19a0806141812qeba2675oba8bfbadfe714027@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <822da19a0806141813g46be9c46p79f7ba5a49d2bdbd@mail.gmail.com> Sorry, forgot the link: http://www.meteorite-times.com/Back_Links/2006/September/Micro_Visions.htm happy viewing. On Sat, Jun 14, 2008 at 7:12 PM, Dark Matter wrote: > Hi Bernd and All, > > For a close up view of PV, check out Tom's Micro Visions article on > it. I suspect that piece might be the PV with the finest polish in the > world. > > Thanks Tom! > > -Martin > > > > On Sat, Jun 14, 2008 at 9:55 PM, wrote: >> Mike Farmer writes: >> >> "I found one stone, and bought many more for a total of more than 15 kilos." >> >> and: "Happy Birthday to one of my favorite meteorites" >> >> >> A very enthusiastic Mike Farmer sent me this mail on Wed, 22 Jul 1998: >> >> "Bernd, I just returned from the UofA where most of the analysis is being done. >> They loved this piece. It is quite obvious that this chondrite was smashed in >> a huge shock event and metal flowed into the stone crushed pieces. I wish they >> were all this nice! I had to pay over $...*/ gram for this slice and I will try >> to get another since it is so incredible." >> >> * amount canceled by me because I don't know if Mike wants to keep this private >> >> Best wishes from the happy owner of an 11.5-gram metal-poor slice (M. Farmer), >> a 3.9-gram metal-rich slice (M. Blood) and a PV thin section (M. Farmer), >> >> Bernd >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > From mpg444 at yahoo.com Sat Jun 14 21:19:06 2008 From: mpg444 at yahoo.com (Mike Groetz) Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 18:19:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Giant meteorite found in Sweden Message-ID: <31162.21420.qm@web33002.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Have any of you in the list heard more of this or know more about it? Not much detail at all.... Mike http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2008/06/13/Giant_meteorite_found_in_Sweden/UPI-38431213396355/ Giant meteorite found in Sweden STOCKHOLM, Sweden, June 13 (UPI) -- A massive meteorite weighing a staggering 2,607 pounds has been found near the northern Swedish village of Kitkiojarvi, officials say. Thomas Osterberg, one of the two people who found it, said it was the biggest meteorite ever found in Sweden, the Swedish news agency TT reported. He said it was egg-shaped, about one meter high with a diameter of about 70 centimeters at its broadest. The finders say they hope to sell the whopper to the Swedish Museum of Natural History. "It must stay in Sweden," Osterberg said. From mpg444 at yahoo.com Sat Jun 14 21:23:52 2008 From: mpg444 at yahoo.com (Mike Groetz) Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 18:23:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: Giant meteorite found in Sweden- Apology Message-ID: <347344.25088.qm@web33002.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I apologize- Ijust realized Darren already posted it. Mikw\e --- On Sat, 6/14/08, Mike Groetz wrote: > From: Mike Groetz > Subject: [meteorite-list] Giant meteorite found in Sweden > To: "Meteorite List" > Date: Saturday, June 14, 2008, 9:19 PM > Have any of you in the list heard more of this or know more > about it? Not much detail at all.... > Mike > > http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2008/06/13/Giant_meteorite_found_in_Sweden/UPI-38431213396355/ > > Giant meteorite found in Sweden > > STOCKHOLM, Sweden, June 13 (UPI) -- A massive meteorite > weighing a staggering 2,607 pounds has been found near the > northern Swedish village of Kitkiojarvi, officials say. > > Thomas Osterberg, one of the two people who found it, said > it was the biggest meteorite ever found in Sweden, the > Swedish news agency TT reported. > > He said it was egg-shaped, about one meter high with a > diameter of about 70 centimeters at its broadest. > > The finders say they hope to sell the whopper to the > Swedish Museum of Natural History. > > "It must stay in Sweden," Osterberg said. > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com Sun Jun 15 08:24:29 2008 From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold) Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2008 05:24:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] happy birthday PV 1998-2008 Message-ID: <44710.68017.qm@web57801.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Good morning list.I have to agree with mike farmer.Portales valley is indeed a unique chondrite.I just made a trade with dirk ross and I received my biggest PV slice ever.80 thick grams with rich black crust all around it.This piece has metal veins shooting out like lighting.Pic on my website.If it wwas not for the metal veins,It would be boring.Agaon happy 10 years of PV. Steve R.Arnold,chicago,Ill,Usa!! ???? The Asteroid Belt! ??? http://chicagometeorites.net/ ??? Collecting Meteorites since 06/19/1999 ??? Ebay I.D. Illinoismeteorites From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Sun Jun 15 09:48:09 2008 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 15 Jun 2008 13:48:09 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] June 15 - Happy Birthday to 3 Meteorite Celebrities Message-ID: Happy Birthday to these 3 Meteorite Celebrities: St. Robert (H5) N'Goureyma (IRANOM) Juvinas (AEUC) BROWN P. et al. (1996) The fall of the St. Robert meteorite (Meteoritics 31-4, 1996, 502-517): The St-Robert (Qu?bec, Canada) meteorite shower occurred on 1994 June 15 at 0h 02 m UT accompanied by detonations audible for > 200 km from the fireball endpoint. The fireball was recorded by visual observers in Vermont, New York State, New Hampshire, Qu?bec and Ontario as well as by optical and infrared sensors in Earth-orbit. Penetration to an altitude of 36 km occurred ~ 60 km to the northeast of Montreal, where the bolide experienced several episodes of fragmentation. A total of 20 fragments of this H5 chondrite, comprising a total mass of 25.4 kg, were recovered in an ellipse measuring 8 x 3.5 km. One fragment of the shower partially penetrated the aluminum roof of a shed. Tomorrow, June 16, will be the birthday of yet another famous and historical meteorite, the Siena (LL5) chondrite and June 17 will be the birthday of the Ibbenb?ren diogenite! Best wishes, Bernd From moni2555 at hotmail.com Sun Jun 15 10:56:24 2008 From: moni2555 at hotmail.com (Moni Waiblinger) Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2008 07:56:24 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] June 15 - Happy Birthday to 3 Meteorite Celebrities In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Good morning All and happy Father's Day to all the fathers! :-) And here is something that you could read while drinking your morning coffee or afternoon tea. http://www.meteorlab.com/METEORLAB2001dev/robrtxt.htm With best regards, Moni _________________________________________________________________ Search that pays you back! Introducing Live Search cashback. http://search.live.com/cashback/?&pkw=form=MIJAAF/publ=HMTGL/crea=srchpaysyouback From drtanuki at yahoo.com Sun Jun 15 11:09:11 2008 From: drtanuki at yahoo.com (drtanuki) Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2008 08:09:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Portales Valley complete slices with fusion crust Message-ID: <857354.80610.qm@web53210.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Dear List Members, I have two Portales Valley, New Mexico, meteorite fall, slices have narrow metal veins and fusion crust for sale. Anyone interested please contact me off list. Thank you! Best Regards, Dirk Ross...Tokyo From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Sun Jun 15 13:29:31 2008 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2008 10:29:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Stan Turecki, a thief in our midst Message-ID: <952717.67681.qm@web33104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> This is to inform list members that Stan Turecki, also a list member, is a con man and thief. He has stolen thousands of dollars from me, and hundreds of thousands from others. I have been in contact with some laser people (Stan not only built lasers, it seems he stole them from a Florida university which landed him in prison from 1995-1997). I have documents from the police department in Port Richey Florida, showing that Stan stole over $100,000 from laser people, with names and dates. These people are working overtime to collect their money, and Stan has gone into hiding. I know he owes Russians over $50,000, Dean Bessey more than $10,000, and others many tens of thousands. He owes Jim Strope and I for one and a half years. If you buy or sell with this guy, you are begging to be conned, consider yourselves warned. I am going to make a web page about Stan, so than anyone who googles him can see what a piece of shit thief he is. This is not a game, he is stealing far more than most hardened criminals do. I will forward these files to anyone who asked me for them. Anyone who has been conned by Stan Turecki please email me, I will compile a list to present to the Port Richey police department, they can add to their files. Michael Farmer From astronut69 at yahoo.com Sun Jun 15 15:09:46 2008 From: astronut69 at yahoo.com (Dimension 5) Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2008 12:09:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Auctions on Ebay UK Message-ID: <15412.57138.qm@web34203.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi List I have 24 auctions listed on Ebay UK finishing in the next few hours.. Variety of Meteorites If interested please check... http://search.ebay.co.uk/_W0QQsassZdimension-5 Thanks for your time.. Kerry Dimension-5 From michael at spacerocksinc.com Sun Jun 15 16:52:25 2008 From: michael at spacerocksinc.com (Michael Johnson) Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2008 13:52:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 15, 2008 Message-ID: <18770941.444051213563145861.JavaMail.root@mbs6.homesteadmail.com> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/June_15_2008.html From marcin at polandmet.com Sun Jun 15 18:28:14 2008 From: marcin at polandmet.com (PolandMET) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 00:28:14 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Large Morasko sale on ebay References: <665926.69002.qm@web36901.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001101c8cf37$1a2f7d90$0d00000a@polandmezrd5i9> Hello List I have on eBay some new and big specimens. Two new achondrites (NWA 5218 Eucrite and NWA 5222 Howardite). More samples soon. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=350070585636 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=350070587484 There is also 4 nice specimens of Morasko IAB-MG including Complete specimns http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=350070600006 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=350070597466 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=350070596752 large full slice 913g http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=350068288362 Morasko Main Mass large cast http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=350068305749 There is also new, excelent iron meteorite from Morocco. Simply beautifull etched pattern with high contrast and shock vein going across surface. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=350068293722 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=350068293915 There was only 5 specimens. Here are two complete, where one have Penguin shape :) http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=350068322975 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=350068339856 Slices from Pultusk meteorite found 2006 (710g). http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=350070598292 I also preparing now new LL3.2 chondrite and absolutely rare type L3.05 ! -----[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-----[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]----- http://www.Meteoryty.pl marcin(at)meteoryty.pl http://www.PolandMET.com marcin(at)meteorite.pl http://www.Gao-Guenie.com GSM: +48 (793) kosmos --------[ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society ]-------- From ensoramanda at ntlworld.com Sun Jun 15 18:45:07 2008 From: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com (ensoramanda at ntlworld.com) Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2008 22:45:07 +0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 15, 2008 Message-ID: <20080615225231.HOKG8797.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@smtp.ntlworld.com> Wow!....in the ground for 0ver 70 years and looks like it fell yesterday. Amazing. Still gives me hope for finding bits of Barwell then! Graham Ensor, UK > > From: Michael Johnson > Date: 2008/06/15 Sun PM 08:52:25 GMT > To: Meteorite List > Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 15, 2008 > > http://www.rocksfromspace.org/June_15_2008.html > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ----------------------------------------- Email sent from www.virginmedia.com/email Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software and scanned for spam From sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com Sun Jun 15 22:48:18 2008 From: sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com (Steve Dunklee) Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2008 19:48:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 15, 2008 In-Reply-To: <18770941.444051213563145861.JavaMail.root@mbs6.homesteadmail.com> Message-ID: <852642.13265.qm@web33201.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Real cool! --- On Sun, 6/15/08, Michael Johnson wrote: > From: Michael Johnson > Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 15, 2008 > To: "Meteorite List" > Date: Sunday, June 15, 2008, 3:52 PM > http://www.rocksfromspace.org/June_15_2008.html > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Sun Jun 15 23:18:28 2008 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2008 20:18:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] More Stan cons gone wild, even ripping off Taiwan institutions Message-ID: <785945.27326.qm@web33107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- On Mon, 4/14/08, Larry Pai wrote: > From: Larry Pai > Subject: LOOKING FOR STAN TURECKI > To: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com, deanbessey at yahoo.com > Date: Monday, April 14, 2008, 8:37 PM > Hello, guys, > > I googled and found Dean's message as follows, > > ================= > Stand in line Dean, join the club. I have some > unfinished business with Stan, his email works, he > just doesnt respond. > Growing weary of trying to politely finish some 6 > month old business. > Michael Farmer > --- dean bessey > > wrote: > > >/ Does anybody know how to contact Stan? / > >/ I have these two email addresses: / > >/ uhv.stuff at verizon.net > > / > >/ and / > >/ laser_maniac at hotmail.com > > / > >/ But neither seems to work anymore. If anybody has / > >/ his / > >/ current email address it would be appriciated. / > >/ Thanks / > >/ DEAN > ============= > > /I am also in trouble with this guy. He didn't send out > any stuff 3 > months after my auction payment. He just didn't > respond. > Did you guys find a solution. How do we nail down this con > man. Any idea? > > -Larry > > -- > -------------------------------- > Dr. Woei Wu Larry Pai > Associate research fellow > Center for condensed matter sciences > National Taiwan University > No. 1, Sec. 4, Roosevelt Rd., Taipei 106, Taiwan R.O.C. > Tel: (02) 3366-5252 > Fax: (02) 2365-5404 > email: wpai at ntu.edu.tw > URL: http://dns.ntu-ccms.ntu.edu.tw/ssgroup > -------------------------------- From freequarks at gmail.com Sun Jun 15 23:24:37 2008 From: freequarks at gmail.com (Dark Matter) Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2008 21:24:37 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Am I missing something here? Message-ID: <822da19a0806152024q1199c78cp8b8f792843f645cd@mail.gmail.com> Hi All, Twice in the past few days, I found myself staring at the screen in confused disbelief. The two statements in sales ads: "a yet unclassified CO3" and "absolutely rare type L3.05 !" just seem to me to border on absurdity. How can a unclassified specimen be identified by its classification? And if we carry petrological grade to the hundredths, then theoretically we could have over 1500 ordinary chondrite designations not to mention all the transitional possibilities. I fail to see how that level of hypothetical opinionated hair splitting could do any good...except for ebay sales ads that is. Just an evening though when I should be working on something else. Cheers, Martin From raremeteorites at yahoo.com Mon Jun 16 00:03:24 2008 From: raremeteorites at yahoo.com (Adam Hupe) Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2008 21:03:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] More Stan cons gone wild, even ripping off Taiwan institutions In-Reply-To: <785945.27326.qm@web33107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <17371.1397.qm@web30704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I sensed their was something wrong with Stan from the beginning and argued vehemently with this liar for over a year. He said I did not know who I was messing with, now everybody knows. It is just a matter a time before the trash is taken out otherwise the stinch becomes unbearable. It is interesting that 2/3rds of the tag team that used to argue with me have now been caught. Adam --- On Sun, 6/15/08, Michael Farmer wrote: > From: Michael Farmer > Subject: [meteorite-list] More Stan cons gone wild, even ripping off Taiwan institutions > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Sunday, June 15, 2008, 8:18 PM > --- On Mon, 4/14/08, Larry Pai > wrote: > > > From: Larry Pai > > Subject: LOOKING FOR STAN TURECKI > > To: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com, deanbessey at yahoo.com > > Date: Monday, April 14, 2008, 8:37 PM > > Hello, guys, > > > > I googled and found Dean's message as follows, > > > > ================= > > Stand in line Dean, join the club. I have some > > unfinished business with Stan, his email works, he > > just doesnt respond. > > Growing weary of trying to politely finish some 6 > > month old business. > > Michael Farmer > > --- dean bessey > > > > > wrote: > > > > >/ Does anybody know how to contact Stan? / > > >/ I have these two email addresses: / > > >/ uhv.stuff at verizon.net > > > > > / > > >/ and / > > >/ laser_maniac at hotmail.com > > > > > / > > >/ But neither seems to work anymore. If anybody > has / > > >/ his / > > >/ current email address it would be appriciated. / > > >/ Thanks / > > >/ DEAN > > ============= > > > > /I am also in trouble with this guy. He didn't > send out > > any stuff 3 > > months after my auction payment. He just didn't > > respond. > > Did you guys find a solution. How do we nail down this > con > > man. Any idea? > > > > -Larry > > > > -- > > -------------------------------- > > Dr. Woei Wu Larry Pai > > Associate research fellow > > Center for condensed matter sciences > > National Taiwan University > > No. 1, Sec. 4, Roosevelt Rd., Taipei 106, Taiwan > R.O.C. > > Tel: (02) 3366-5252 > > Fax: (02) 2365-5404 > > email: wpai at ntu.edu.tw > > URL: http://dns.ntu-ccms.ntu.edu.tw/ssgroup > > -------------------------------- > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mojave_meteorites at cox.net Mon Jun 16 02:21:41 2008 From: mojave_meteorites at cox.net (Rob Matson) Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2008 23:21:41 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 15, 2008 In-Reply-To: <18770941.444051213563145861.JavaMail.root@mbs6.homesteadmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Michael, Awesome image of the large, recent Kainsaz find! When I saw that shape, I was sure I'd seen it before... http://www.rocksfromspace.org/June_15_2008.html http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/1/1b/Sandcrawler.jpg --Rob ;-) From jgrossman at usgs.gov Mon Jun 16 07:36:53 2008 From: jgrossman at usgs.gov (Jeff Grossman) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 07:36:53 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Am I missing something here? In-Reply-To: <822da19a0806152024q1199c78cp8b8f792843f645cd@mail.gmail.co m> References: <822da19a0806152024q1199c78cp8b8f792843f645cd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Martin and list, I can't comment on the CO3 oxymoron, but I am the inventor of the type 3.05 classification, so I can comment on that. As we have studied type 3 chondrites over the last 30 years, especially ordinary and CO chondrites, we have been gradually refining the 1967 Van Schmus and Wood classification scheme. In 1980, we realized that type 3 chondrites alone showed as great a range of metamorphic effects as type 4-6 did, so Sears and coworkers including me, proposed subdividing type 3 into types 3.0-3.9. In 2005, Grossman and Brearley (2005) described a similar wide range of metamorphic effects just between types 3.0 and 3.2 and subdivided this into 3.00-3.15 by steps of 0.05. Since then, we have even begun to recognize different levels of metamorphic heating between types 3.00 and 3.05, and so we find Acfer 094 at type 3.00, Semarkona at type 3.01, ALHA77307 at type 3.03 (e.g., Bonal et al. 2007; Kimura, Grossman and Weisberg, 2008, MAPS in press). These differences are quite real and important. In type 3.05 ordinary chondrites, the olivine in chondrules has begun to decompose from its high-temperature state, the matrix chemistry is quite different, especially for sulfur, and the metal has greatly changed in structure and composition (all compared to the much, much rarer type 3.00-3.01 chondrites). Although these numbers do not tell you the peak metamorphic temperature, they are very useful in describing the various transitions that occur during metamorphic heating. The fact that there may be many possible combinations of chemical group and petrologic type is a good thing, although there certainly aren't 1500. Basically, current usage is 3.00-3.04 (5 categories), 3.05-3.15 (3 categories), 3.2-3.9 (8 catagories), 4-7 (4 categories) = 20 categories. I suppose if you double this for classifiers who can't make up their minds, you get ~40 categories, times 3 chondrite groups plus 2 transitional groups = ~200 total combinations. Jeff At 11:24 PM 6/15/2008, Dark Matter wrote: >Hi All, > >Twice in the past few days, I found myself staring at the screen in >confused disbelief. The two statements in sales ads: > > >"a yet unclassified CO3" > >and > >"absolutely rare type L3.05 !" > >just seem to me to border on absurdity. How can a unclassified >specimen be identified by its classification? > >And if we carry petrological grade to the hundredths, then >theoretically we could have over 1500 ordinary chondrite designations >not to mention all the transitional possibilities. I fail to see how >that level of hypothetical opinionated hair splitting could do any >good...except for ebay sales ads that is. > >Just an evening though when I should be working on something else. > >Cheers, > >Martin >______________________________________________ >http://www.meteoritecentral.com >Meteorite-list mailing list >Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703) 648-6184 US Geological Survey fax: (703) 648-6383 954 National Center Reston, VA 20192, USA From gsac at gmx.net Mon Jun 16 08:11:14 2008 From: gsac at gmx.net (Alexander Seidel) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 14:11:14 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Am I missing something here? In-Reply-To: References: <822da19a0806152024q1199c78cp8b8f792843f645cd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080616121114.290190@gmx.net> Hi Jeff, if this is state of the art of the classification scheme, and has been accepted by a majority of the meteoriticists, does this mean some important primitive meteorites finally need a refinement of their established classifications? I am thinking of (e. g.) the Krymka meteorite, which to my knowledge is an LL3.1. Does this have to be refined to become either an LL3.05, or an LL3.10, or an LL3.15 in the end? Just curious, Alex Berlin/Germany -------- Original-Nachricht -------- > Datum: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 07:36:53 -0400 > Von: Jeff Grossman > An: "Dark Matter" , "Meteorite List" > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Am I missing something here? > Dear Martin and list, > > I can't comment on the CO3 oxymoron, but I am the inventor of the > type 3.05 classification, so I can comment on that. > > As we have studied type 3 chondrites over the last 30 years, > especially ordinary and CO chondrites, we have been gradually > refining the 1967 Van Schmus and Wood classification scheme. In > 1980, we realized that type 3 chondrites alone showed as great a > range of metamorphic effects as type 4-6 did, so Sears and coworkers > including me, proposed subdividing type 3 into types 3.0-3.9. In > 2005, Grossman and Brearley (2005) described a similar wide range of > metamorphic effects just between types 3.0 and 3.2 and subdivided > this into 3.00-3.15 by steps of 0.05. Since then, we have even begun > to recognize different levels of metamorphic heating between types > 3.00 and 3.05, and so we find Acfer 094 at type 3.00, Semarkona at > type 3.01, ALHA77307 at type 3.03 (e.g., Bonal et al. 2007; Kimura, > Grossman and Weisberg, 2008, MAPS in press). > > These differences are quite real and important. In type 3.05 > ordinary chondrites, the olivine in chondrules has begun to decompose > from its high-temperature state, the matrix chemistry is quite > different, especially for sulfur, and the metal has greatly changed > in structure and composition (all compared to the much, much rarer > type 3.00-3.01 chondrites). Although these numbers do not tell you > the peak metamorphic temperature, they are very useful in describing > the various transitions that occur during metamorphic heating. > > The fact that there may be many possible combinations of chemical > group and petrologic type is a good thing, although there certainly > aren't 1500. Basically, current usage is 3.00-3.04 (5 categories), > 3.05-3.15 (3 categories), 3.2-3.9 (8 catagories), 4-7 (4 categories) > = 20 categories. I suppose if you double this for classifiers who > can't make up their minds, you get ~40 categories, times 3 chondrite > groups plus 2 transitional groups = ~200 total combinations. > > Jeff > > At 11:24 PM 6/15/2008, Dark Matter wrote: > >Hi All, > > > >Twice in the past few days, I found myself staring at the screen in > >confused disbelief. The two statements in sales ads: > > > > > >"a yet unclassified CO3" > > > >and > > > >"absolutely rare type L3.05 !" > > > >just seem to me to border on absurdity. How can a unclassified > >specimen be identified by its classification? > > > >And if we carry petrological grade to the hundredths, then > >theoretically we could have over 1500 ordinary chondrite designations > >not to mention all the transitional possibilities. I fail to see how > >that level of hypothetical opinionated hair splitting could do any > >good...except for ebay sales ads that is. > > > >Just an evening though when I should be working on something else. > > > >Cheers, > > > >Martin > >______________________________________________ > >http://www.meteoritecentral.com > >Meteorite-list mailing list > >Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703) 648-6184 > US Geological Survey fax: (703) 648-6383 > 954 National Center > Reston, VA 20192, USA > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From info at niger-meteorite-recon.de Mon Jun 16 08:23:17 2008 From: info at niger-meteorite-recon.de (info at niger-meteorite-recon.de) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 14:23:17 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Am I missing something here? Message-ID: <10727422.24031213618997172.JavaMail.servlet@kundenserver> Martin, others, as for the "unclassified CO3" that was indeed the wrong term. I was referring to a CO3 type chondrite whose classification has not yet reached official status. I sincerely apologize for causing "confused disbelief". Svend www.meteorite-recon.com ----------------------------------------- Jeff Grossman wrote: Dear Martin and list, I can't comment on the CO3 oxymoron, but I am the inventor of the type 3.05 classification, so I can comment on that. As we have studied type 3 chondrites over the last 30 years, especially ordinary and CO chondrites, we have been gradually refining the 1967 Van Schmus and Wood classification scheme. In 1980, we realized that type 3 chondrites alone showed as great a range of metamorphic effects as type 4-6 did, so Sears and coworkers including me, proposed subdividing type 3 into types 3.0-3.9. In 2005, Grossman and Brearley (2005) described a similar wide range of metamorphic effects just between types 3.0 and 3.2 and subdivided this into 3.00-3.15 by steps of 0.05. Since then, we have even begun to recognize different levels of metamorphic heating between types 3.00 and 3.05, and so we find Acfer 094 at type 3.00, Semarkona at type 3.01, ALHA77307 at type 3.03 (e.g., Bonal et al. 2007; Kimura, Grossman and Weisberg, 2008, MAPS in press). These differences are quite real and important. In type 3.05 ordinary chondrites, the olivine in chondrules has begun to decompose from its high-temperature state, the matrix chemistry is quite different, especially for sulfur, and the metal has greatly changed in structure and composition (all compared to the much, much rarer type 3.00-3.01 chondrites). Although these numbers do not tell you the peak metamorphic temperature, they are very useful in describing the various transitions that occur during metamorphic heating. The fact that there may be many possible combinations of chemical group and petrologic type is a good thing, although there certainly aren't 1500. Basically, current usage is 3.00-3.04 (5 categories), 3.05-3.15 (3 categories), 3.2-3.9 (8 catagories), 4-7 (4 categories) = 20 categories. I suppose if you double this for classifiers who can't make up their minds, you get ~40 categories, times 3 chondrite groups plus 2 transitional groups = ~200 total combinations. Jeff At 11:24 PM 6/15/2008, Dark Matter wrote: >Hi All, > >Twice in the past few days, I found myself staring at the screen in >confused disbelief. The two statements in sales ads: > > >"a yet unclassified CO3" > >and > >"absolutely rare type L3.05 !" > >just seem to me to border on absurdity. How can a unclassified >specimen be identified by its classification? > >And if we carry petrological grade to the hundredths, then >theoretically we could have over 1500 ordinary chondrite designations >not to mention all the transitional possibilities. I fail to see how >that level of hypothetical opinionated hair splitting could do any >good...except for ebay sales ads that is. > >Just an evening though when I should be working on something else. > >Cheers, > >Martin >______________________________________________ >http://www.meteoritecentral.com >Meteorite-list mailing list >Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703) 648-6184 US Geological Survey fax: (703) 648-6383 954 National Center Reston, VA 20192, USA ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- www.niger-meteorite-recon.de From freequarks at gmail.com Mon Jun 16 10:40:01 2008 From: freequarks at gmail.com (Dark Matter) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 08:40:01 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Am I missing something here? In-Reply-To: References: <822da19a0806152024q1199c78cp8b8f792843f645cd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <822da19a0806160740y3605a3a0lb202c31113bcfb57@mail.gmail.com> Hello Jeff and All, Thank you very much for the thorough and thoughtful reply. I certainly would not disagree with you on such matters. Now I'm curious if refinement in classification will be made for Krymka (like Alex): http://www.meteorite.com/MT_links/2003/March/1krymka.jpg Bishunpur: http://www.meteorite-times.com/Back_Links/2005/December/bishunpur.jpg and what about carbonaceous chondrites like Leoville, currently a CV3.0 I believe: http://www.meteorite-times.com/Back_Links/2004/December/leo_cai.jpg And thanks to Svend for his clarification. Martin From jgrossman at usgs.gov Mon Jun 16 10:50:53 2008 From: jgrossman at usgs.gov (Jeff Grossman) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 10:50:53 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Am I missing something here? In-Reply-To: <20080616121114.290190@gmx.net> References: <822da19a0806152024q1199c78cp8b8f792843f645cd@mail.gmail.com> <20080616121114.290190@gmx.net> Message-ID: Yes. All of the low-petrologic-type chondrites can be refined. In Grossman and Brearley (2005) we reclassified Krymka as type 3.2 and Bishunpur as type 3.15. Here is the entire set of ordinary chondrite petrologic types from that paper: Semarkona -- 3.00 QUE 97008 -- 3.05 MET 00526 -- 3.05 EET 90161 -- 3.05 NWA 1756 -- 3.10 NWA 3127 -- 3.10 Roosevelt County 075 -- 3.10 MET 96503 -- 3.10 Adrar 003 -- 3.10 Bishunpur -- 3.15 Y-791324 -- 3.15 Y-791558 -- 3.15 Y-793596 -- 3.2 Krymka -- 3.2 GRO 95502 -- 3.2 GRO 95544 -- 3.2 jeff At 08:11 AM 6/16/2008, Alexander Seidel wrote: >Hi Jeff, > >if this is state of the art of the classification scheme, and has >been accepted by a majority of the meteoriticists, does this mean >some important primitive meteorites finally need a refinement of >their established classifications? > >I am thinking of (e. g.) the Krymka meteorite, which to my knowledge >is an LL3.1. Does this have to be refined to become either an >LL3.05, or an LL3.10, or an LL3.15 in the end? > >Just curious, >Alex >Berlin/Germany > > >-------- Original-Nachricht -------- > > Datum: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 07:36:53 -0400 > > Von: Jeff Grossman > > An: "Dark Matter" , "Meteorite List" > > > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Am I missing something here? > > > Dear Martin and list, > > > > I can't comment on the CO3 oxymoron, but I am the inventor of the > > type 3.05 classification, so I can comment on that. > > > > As we have studied type 3 chondrites over the last 30 years, > > especially ordinary and CO chondrites, we have been gradually > > refining the 1967 Van Schmus and Wood classification scheme. In > > 1980, we realized that type 3 chondrites alone showed as great a > > range of metamorphic effects as type 4-6 did, so Sears and coworkers > > including me, proposed subdividing type 3 into types 3.0-3.9. In > > 2005, Grossman and Brearley (2005) described a similar wide range of > > metamorphic effects just between types 3.0 and 3.2 and subdivided > > this into 3.00-3.15 by steps of 0.05. Since then, we have even begun > > to recognize different levels of metamorphic heating between types > > 3.00 and 3.05, and so we find Acfer 094 at type 3.00, Semarkona at > > type 3.01, ALHA77307 at type 3.03 (e.g., Bonal et al. 2007; Kimura, > > Grossman and Weisberg, 2008, MAPS in press). > > > > These differences are quite real and important. In type 3.05 > > ordinary chondrites, the olivine in chondrules has begun to decompose > > from its high-temperature state, the matrix chemistry is quite > > different, especially for sulfur, and the metal has greatly changed > > in structure and composition (all compared to the much, much rarer > > type 3.00-3.01 chondrites). Although these numbers do not tell you > > the peak metamorphic temperature, they are very useful in describing > > the various transitions that occur during metamorphic heating. > > > > The fact that there may be many possible combinations of chemical > > group and petrologic type is a good thing, although there certainly > > aren't 1500. Basically, current usage is 3.00-3.04 (5 categories), > > 3.05-3.15 (3 categories), 3.2-3.9 (8 catagories), 4-7 (4 categories) > > = 20 categories. I suppose if you double this for classifiers who > > can't make up their minds, you get ~40 categories, times 3 chondrite > > groups plus 2 transitional groups = ~200 total combinations. > > > > Jeff > > > > At 11:24 PM 6/15/2008, Dark Matter wrote: > > >Hi All, > > > > > >Twice in the past few days, I found myself staring at the screen in > > >confused disbelief. The two statements in sales ads: > > > > > > > > >"a yet unclassified CO3" > > > > > >and > > > > > >"absolutely rare type L3.05 !" > > > > > >just seem to me to border on absurdity. How can a unclassified > > >specimen be identified by its classification? > > > > > >And if we carry petrological grade to the hundredths, then > > >theoretically we could have over 1500 ordinary chondrite designations > > >not to mention all the transitional possibilities. I fail to see how > > >that level of hypothetical opinionated hair splitting could do any > > >good...except for ebay sales ads that is. > > > > > >Just an evening though when I should be working on something else. > > > > > >Cheers, > > > > > >Martin > > >______________________________________________ > > >http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > >Meteorite-list mailing list > > >Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703) 648-6184 > > US Geological Survey fax: (703) 648-6383 > > 954 National Center > > Reston, VA 20192, USA > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703) 648-6184 US Geological Survey fax: (703) 648-6383 954 National Center Reston, VA 20192, USA From gsac at gmx.net Mon Jun 16 11:34:13 2008 From: gsac at gmx.net (Alexander Seidel) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 17:34:13 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Am I missing something here? In-Reply-To: References: <822da19a0806152024q1199c78cp8b8f792843f645cd@mail.gmail.com> <20080616121114.290190@gmx.net> Message-ID: <20080616153413.197250@gmx.net> Thank you, Jeff, for your quick reply. Seems that some type collectors will now feel a need to expand their meteorite inventories with the new subclasses, which is not an easy, or even impossible, task with almost all of those mentioned meteorites out of reach for a private person. So let?s hope some more exotic low-petrologic-type chondrites will surface in NWA or other hot deserts, as time goes by... Alex Berlin/Germany [....whose Krymka had to step down a bit from the top of the ladder (sigh!) - yet remains a beauty!] -------- Original-Nachricht -------- > Datum: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 10:50:53 -0400 > Von: Jeff Grossman > An: "Alexander Seidel" , meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, freequarks at gmail.com > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Am I missing something here? > Yes. All of the low-petrologic-type chondrites can be refined. In > Grossman and Brearley (2005) we reclassified Krymka as type 3.2 and > Bishunpur as type 3.15. Here is the entire set of ordinary > chondrite petrologic types from that paper: > > Semarkona -- 3.00 > QUE 97008 -- 3.05 > MET 00526 -- 3.05 > EET 90161 -- 3.05 > NWA 1756 -- 3.10 > NWA 3127 -- 3.10 > Roosevelt County 075 -- 3.10 > MET 96503 -- 3.10 > Adrar 003 -- 3.10 > Bishunpur -- 3.15 > Y-791324 -- 3.15 > Y-791558 -- 3.15 > Y-793596 -- 3.2 > Krymka -- 3.2 > GRO 95502 -- 3.2 > GRO 95544 -- 3.2 > > > jeff > > At 08:11 AM 6/16/2008, Alexander Seidel wrote: > >Hi Jeff, > > > >if this is state of the art of the classification scheme, and has > >been accepted by a majority of the meteoriticists, does this mean > >some important primitive meteorites finally need a refinement of > >their established classifications? > > > >I am thinking of (e. g.) the Krymka meteorite, which to my knowledge > >is an LL3.1. Does this have to be refined to become either an > >LL3.05, or an LL3.10, or an LL3.15 in the end? > > > >Just curious, > >Alex > >Berlin/Germany > > > > > >-------- Original-Nachricht -------- > > > Datum: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 07:36:53 -0400 > > > Von: Jeff Grossman > > > An: "Dark Matter" , "Meteorite List" > > > > > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Am I missing something here? > > > > > Dear Martin and list, > > > > > > I can't comment on the CO3 oxymoron, but I am the inventor of the > > > type 3.05 classification, so I can comment on that. > > > > > > As we have studied type 3 chondrites over the last 30 years, > > > especially ordinary and CO chondrites, we have been gradually > > > refining the 1967 Van Schmus and Wood classification scheme. In > > > 1980, we realized that type 3 chondrites alone showed as great a > > > range of metamorphic effects as type 4-6 did, so Sears and coworkers > > > including me, proposed subdividing type 3 into types 3.0-3.9. In > > > 2005, Grossman and Brearley (2005) described a similar wide range of > > > metamorphic effects just between types 3.0 and 3.2 and subdivided > > > this into 3.00-3.15 by steps of 0.05. Since then, we have even begun > > > to recognize different levels of metamorphic heating between types > > > 3.00 and 3.05, and so we find Acfer 094 at type 3.00, Semarkona at > > > type 3.01, ALHA77307 at type 3.03 (e.g., Bonal et al. 2007; Kimura, > > > Grossman and Weisberg, 2008, MAPS in press). > > > > > > These differences are quite real and important. In type 3.05 > > > ordinary chondrites, the olivine in chondrules has begun to decompose > > > from its high-temperature state, the matrix chemistry is quite > > > different, especially for sulfur, and the metal has greatly changed > > > in structure and composition (all compared to the much, much rarer > > > type 3.00-3.01 chondrites). Although these numbers do not tell you > > > the peak metamorphic temperature, they are very useful in describing > > > the various transitions that occur during metamorphic heating. > > > > > > The fact that there may be many possible combinations of chemical > > > group and petrologic type is a good thing, although there certainly > > > aren't 1500. Basically, current usage is 3.00-3.04 (5 categories), > > > 3.05-3.15 (3 categories), 3.2-3.9 (8 catagories), 4-7 (4 categories) > > > = 20 categories. I suppose if you double this for classifiers who > > > can't make up their minds, you get ~40 categories, times 3 chondrite > > > groups plus 2 transitional groups = ~200 total combinations. > > > > > > Jeff > > > > > > At 11:24 PM 6/15/2008, Dark Matter wrote: > > > >Hi All, > > > > > > > >Twice in the past few days, I found myself staring at the screen in > > > >confused disbelief. The two statements in sales ads: > > > > > > > > > > > >"a yet unclassified CO3" > > > > > > > >and > > > > > > > >"absolutely rare type L3.05 !" > > > > > > > >just seem to me to border on absurdity. How can a unclassified > > > >specimen be identified by its classification? > > > > > > > >And if we carry petrological grade to the hundredths, then > > > >theoretically we could have over 1500 ordinary chondrite designations > > > >not to mention all the transitional possibilities. I fail to see how > > > >that level of hypothetical opinionated hair splitting could do any > > > >good...except for ebay sales ads that is. > > > > > > > >Just an evening though when I should be working on something else. > > > > > > > >Cheers, > > > > > > > >Martin > > > >______________________________________________ > > > >http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > > >Meteorite-list mailing list > > > >Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703) 648-6184 > > > US Geological Survey fax: (703) 648-6383 > > > 954 National Center > > > Reston, VA 20192, USA > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703) 648-6184 > US Geological Survey fax: (703) 648-6383 > 954 National Center > Reston, VA 20192, USA > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr Mon Jun 16 12:03:25 2008 From: Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr (Zelimir Gabelica) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 18:03:25 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Am I missing something here? In-Reply-To: <20080616153413.197250@gmx.net> References: <822da19a0806152024q1199c78cp8b8f792843f645cd@mail.gmail.com> <20080616121114.290190@gmx.net> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20080616175103.027b5d20@pop.univ-mulhouse.fr> Yes, thanks to Jeff for these clearings and examples for LL's. Note that, in contrast to the Met Bull on line, in the new edition of "Meteorites from A to Z", the LL petrological types as given by Jeff are correctly mantioned, except for Bishunpur, which remained LL3.1 (but LL1.15 in Met. Bull.). Alex, 2 little sisters of your Krymka, a complete slice of 17.4 grams and another of 28.2 g will be exhibited next week-end in Ensisheim (theme: meteorites from Russia and Eastern Europe). More news on Ensisheim (latest info) to follow later today. Best to all, Zelimir A 17:34 16/06/2008 +0200, Alexander Seidel a ?crit : >Thank you, Jeff, for your quick reply. Seems that some type collectors >will now feel a need to expand their meteorite inventories with the new >subclasses, which is not an easy, or even impossible, task with almost all >of those mentioned meteorites out of reach for a private person. So let?s >hope some more exotic low-petrologic-type chondrites will surface in NWA >or other hot deserts, as time goes by... > >Alex >Berlin/Germany > >[....whose Krymka had to step down a bit from the top of the ladder >(sigh!) - yet remains a beauty!] > > >-------- Original-Nachricht -------- > > Datum: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 10:50:53 -0400 > > Von: Jeff Grossman > > An: "Alexander Seidel" , > meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, freequarks at gmail.com > > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Am I missing something here? > > > Yes. All of the low-petrologic-type chondrites can be refined. In > > Grossman and Brearley (2005) we reclassified Krymka as type 3.2 and > > Bishunpur as type 3.15. Here is the entire set of ordinary > > chondrite petrologic types from that paper: > > > > Semarkona -- 3.00 > > QUE 97008 -- 3.05 > > MET 00526 -- 3.05 > > EET 90161 -- 3.05 > > NWA 1756 -- 3.10 > > NWA 3127 -- 3.10 > > Roosevelt County 075 -- 3.10 > > MET 96503 -- 3.10 > > Adrar 003 -- 3.10 > > Bishunpur -- 3.15 > > Y-791324 -- 3.15 > > Y-791558 -- 3.15 > > Y-793596 -- 3.2 > > Krymka -- 3.2 > > GRO 95502 -- 3.2 > > GRO 95544 -- 3.2 > > > > > > jeff > > > > At 08:11 AM 6/16/2008, Alexander Seidel wrote: > > >Hi Jeff, > > > > > >if this is state of the art of the classification scheme, and has > > >been accepted by a majority of the meteoriticists, does this mean > > >some important primitive meteorites finally need a refinement of > > >their established classifications? > > > > > >I am thinking of (e. g.) the Krymka meteorite, which to my knowledge > > >is an LL3.1. Does this have to be refined to become either an > > >LL3.05, or an LL3.10, or an LL3.15 in the end? > > > > > >Just curious, > > >Alex > > >Berlin/Germany > > > Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Universit? de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 From pierremariepele at yahoo.fr Mon Jun 16 14:06:42 2008 From: pierremariepele at yahoo.fr (=?iso-8859-1?q?Pel=E9=20Pierre-Marie?=) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 20:06:42 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [meteorite-list] The Times archives Message-ID: <644731.81576.qm@web23007.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hello, I just learned that the british newspaper Times had put all of its archives online, for free. You can browse and consult any single issue of this newspaper from 1785 to 1985. I typed "meteorite" in the search engine and found 551 results. Maybe a good way to get information about well known worldwide falls, british falls and potential new finds to do ? The link is http://archive.timesonline.co.uk Pierre-Marie Pele www.meteor-center.com www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com _____________________________________________________________________________ Envoyez avec Yahoo! Mail. Une boite mail plus intelligente http://mail.yahoo.fr From cynapse at charter.net Mon Jun 16 14:25:40 2008 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 14:25:40 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] The Times archives In-Reply-To: <644731.81576.qm@web23007.mail.ird.yahoo.com> References: <644731.81576.qm@web23007.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 20:06:42 +0200 (CEST), you wrote: > >I typed "meteorite" in the search engine and found 551 >results. "aerolite" gives 235 results: http://archive.timesonline.co.uk/tol/keywordsearch.arc From bigpineartifacts at yahoo.com Mon Jun 16 14:28:01 2008 From: bigpineartifacts at yahoo.com (mckinney trammell) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 11:28:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Happy 10th Birthday Portales Valley In-Reply-To: <822da19a0806141813g46be9c46p79f7ba5a49d2bdbd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <996288.53370.qm@web53208.mail.re2.yahoo.com> me & dave etched a totally bitchin', 70% metal, pv completeslice , fusion-crusted yesterday- turned out beautiful! --- On Sat, 6/14/08, Dark Matter wrote: > From: Dark Matter > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Happy 10th Birthday Portales Valley > To: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de > Cc: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Saturday, June 14, 2008, 9:13 PM > Sorry, forgot the link: > > http://www.meteorite-times.com/Back_Links/2006/September/Micro_Visions.htm > > happy viewing. > > > > > On Sat, Jun 14, 2008 at 7:12 PM, Dark Matter > wrote: > > Hi Bernd and All, > > > > For a close up view of PV, check out Tom's Micro > Visions article on > > it. I suspect that piece might be the PV with the > finest polish in the > > world. > > > > Thanks Tom! > > > > -Martin > > > > > > > > On Sat, Jun 14, 2008 at 9:55 PM, > wrote: > >> Mike Farmer writes: > >> > >> "I found one stone, and bought many more for > a total of more than 15 kilos." > >> > >> and: "Happy Birthday to one of my favorite > meteorites" > >> > >> > >> A very enthusiastic Mike Farmer sent me this mail > on Wed, 22 Jul 1998: > >> > >> "Bernd, I just returned from the UofA where > most of the analysis is being done. > >> They loved this piece. It is quite obvious that > this chondrite was smashed in > >> a huge shock event and metal flowed into the > stone crushed pieces. I wish they > >> were all this nice! I had to pay over $...*/ gram > for this slice and I will try > >> to get another since it is so incredible." > >> > >> * amount canceled by me because I don't know > if Mike wants to keep this private > >> > >> Best wishes from the happy owner of an 11.5-gram > metal-poor slice (M. Farmer), > >> a 3.9-gram metal-rich slice (M. Blood) and a PV > thin section (M. Farmer), > >> > >> Bernd > >> > >> ______________________________________________ > >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com > >> Meteorite-list mailing list > >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > >> > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From markig at westnet.com Mon Jun 16 14:34:45 2008 From: markig at westnet.com (Mark Grossman) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 14:34:45 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] The Times archives References: <644731.81576.qm@web23007.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002301c8cfdf$a63f92e0$6501a8c0@QED> This is a terrific development. The Times normally sells its database to libraries, and it is certainly not for free! Many libraries in the NYC area even have a restriction that the Times database must be used on site at the library to keep the cost down, unlike other library databases maintained by the libraries that can be accessed at home, so long as one has a library card. I took a quick look, and it seems that the free part is only an introductory offer. Still, if the price is reasonable, it is a great resource, and sure beats traveling into the City to use the database on site at a public library. Will be interesting to see how this develops. Perhaps the Times realizes there is more money to be made by selling the archives over the internet, rather than focusing on library sales. In any event, thanks so much for the information that this resource is now available for free on line - at least for the time being! Mark Grossman ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pel? Pierre-Marie" To: "MeteoriteList" Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 2:06 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] The Times archives > Hello, > > I just learned that the british newspaper Times had > put all of its archives online, for free. > > You can browse and consult any single issue of this > newspaper from 1785 to 1985. > > I typed "meteorite" in the search engine and found 551 > results. > > Maybe a good way to get information about well known > worldwide falls, british falls and potential new finds > to do ? > > The link is http://archive.timesonline.co.uk > > Pierre-Marie Pele > www.meteor-center.com > www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ _ > Envoyez avec Yahoo! Mail. Une boite mail plus intelligente http://mail.yahoo.fr > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From cynapse at charter.net Mon Jun 16 15:41:21 2008 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 15:41:21 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Hot new vacation spots In-Reply-To: <822da19a0806152024q1199c78cp8b8f792843f645cd@mail.gmail.com> References: <822da19a0806152024q1199c78cp8b8f792843f645cd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Anyone want to calculate the surface temps for these puppies? http://esciencenews.com/articles/2008/06/16/a.trio.super.earths A trio of super-Earths Published: Monday, June 16, 2008 - 09:15 in Astronomy & Space Today, at an international conference, a team of European astronomers announced a remarkable breakthrough in the field of extra-solar planets. Using the HARPS instrument at the ESO La Silla Observatory, they have found a triple system of super-Earths around the star HD 40307. Looking at their entire sample studied with HARPS, the astronomers count a total of 45 candidate planets with a mass below 30 Earth masses and an orbital period shorter than 50 days. This implies that one solar-like star out of three harbours such planets. "Does every single star harbour planets and, if yes, how many?" wonders planet hunter Michel Mayor from Geneva Observatory. "We may not yet know the answer but we are making huge progress towards it." Since the discovery in 1995 of a planet around the star 51 Pegasi by Mayor and Didier Queloz, more than 270 exoplanets have been found, mostly around solar-like stars. Most of these planets are giants, such as Jupiter or Saturn, and current statistics show that about 1 out of 14 stars harbours this kind of planet. "With the advent of much more precise instruments such as the HARPS spectrograph on ESO's 3.6-m telescope at La Silla, we can now discover smaller planets, with masses between 2 and 10 times the Earth's mass," says St?phane Udry, one of Mayor's colleagues. Such planets are called super-Earths, as they are more massive than the Earth but less massive than Uranus and Neptune (about 15 Earth masses). The group of astronomers have now discovered a system of three super-Earths around a rather normal star, which is slightly less massive than our Sun, and is located 42 light-years away towards the southern Doradus and Pictor constellations. "We have made very precise measurements of the velocity of the star HD 40307 over the last five years, which clearly reveal the presence of three planets," says Mayor. The planets, having 4.2, 6.7, and 9.4 times the mass of the Earth, orbit the star with periods of 4.3, 9.6, and 20.4 days, respectively. "The perturbations induced by the planets are really tiny - the mass of the smallest planets is one hundred thousand times smaller than that of the star - and only the high sensitivity of HARPS made it possible to detect them," says co-author Fran?ois Bouchy, from the Institut d'Astrophysique de Paris, France. Indeed, each planet induces a motion of the star of only a few metres per second. At the same conference, the team of astronomers announced the discovery of two other planetary systems, also with the HARPS spectrograph. In one, a super-Earth (7.5 Earth masses) orbits the star HD 181433 in 9.5 days. This star also hosts a Jupiter-like planet with a period close to 3 years. The second system contains a 22 Earth-mass planet having a period of 4 days and a Saturn-like planet with a 3-year period as well. "Clearly these planets are only the tip of the iceberg," says Mayor. "The analysis of all the stars studied with HARPS shows that about one third of all solar-like stars have either super-Earth or Neptune-like planets with orbital periods shorter than 50 days." A planet in a tight, short-period orbit is indeed easier to find than one in a wide, long-period orbit. "It is most probable that there are many other planets present: not only super-Earth and Neptune-like planets with longer periods, but also Earth-like planets that we cannot detect yet. Add to it the Jupiter-like planets already known, and you may well arrive at the conclusion that planets are ubiquitous," concludes Udry. From Thomas.Kurtz at gmx.de Mon Jun 16 16:48:51 2008 From: Thomas.Kurtz at gmx.de (Thomas Kurtz) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 22:48:51 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Crater in Portugal ? Message-ID: <20080616204851.106290@gmx.net> Hello list, in the Earth Impact Database I can not find this structure, which is about 20km in diameter and located in Morais Macedo de Cavaleiros, Portugal Google satellite map : http://images.google.de/imgres?imgurl=http://lh3.ggpht.com/_ojJ5jSqmKP4/R124tZfg-vI/AAAAAAAABQw/Vh83Xqry1kg/La%2BMancha.JPG&imgrefurl=http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/Bl2frv3O6R3s9lNq047TtA&h=600&w=800&sz=46&hl=de&start=25&um=1&tbnid=mkVaT3kxnskm4M:&tbnh=107&tbnw=143&prev=/images%3Fq%3DEspana%2B%252B%2522la%2Bmancha%2522%26start%3D18%26ndsp%3D18%26um%3D1%26hl%3Dde%26sa%3DN Does anybody know anything about the origin of this round structure ? Thank you, with best wishes from the Ries-crater in Germany. Thomas Kurtz PS.: In the case anybody of you is planning to visit the famous RIES-Crater (27km) in this summer, just let me know. I?m living and working in this impact site since 2007. -- GMX startet ShortView.de. Hier findest Du Leute mit Deinen Interessen! Jetzt dabei sein: http://www.shortview.de/?mc=sv_ext_mf at gmx From Thomas.Kurtz at gmx.de Mon Jun 16 16:54:04 2008 From: Thomas.Kurtz at gmx.de (Thomas Kurtz) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 22:54:04 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Crater in Portugal ? In-Reply-To: <20080616204851.106290@gmx.net> References: <20080616204851.106290@gmx.net> Message-ID: <20080616205404.106290@gmx.net> Sorry, the link is wrong. Just google map for : "Morais Macedo de Cavaleiros Portugal" and zoom out. -------- Original-Nachricht -------- > Datum: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 22:48:51 +0200 > Von: "Thomas Kurtz" > An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Betreff: [meteorite-list] Crater in Portugal ? > Hello list, > > in the Earth Impact Database I can not find this structure, which is about > 20km in diameter and located in Morais Macedo de Cavaleiros Portugal > > Google satellite map : > http://images.google.de/imgres?imgurl=http://lh3.ggpht.com/_ojJ5jSqmKP4/R124tZfg-vI/AAAAAAAABQw/Vh83Xqry1kg/La%2BMancha.JPG&imgrefurl=http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/Bl2frv3O6R3s9lNq047TtA&h=600&w=800&sz=46&hl=de&start=25&um=1&tbnid=mkVaT3kxnskm4M:&tbnh=107&tbnw=143&prev=/images%3Fq%3DEspana%2B%252B%2522la%2Bmancha%2522%26start%3D18%26ndsp%3D18%26um%3D1%26hl%3Dde%26sa%3DN > > Does anybody know anything about the origin of this round structure ? > > Thank you, > > with best wishes from the Ries-crater in Germany. > > Thomas Kurtz > > PS.: > > In the case anybody of you is planning to visit the famous RIES-Crater > (27km) in this summer, just let me know. I?m living and working in this > impact site since 2007. > > -- > GMX startet ShortView.de. Hier findest Du Leute mit Deinen Interessen! > Jetzt dabei sein: http://www.shortview.de/?mc=sv_ext_mf at gmx > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Psssst! Schon vom neuen GMX MultiMessenger geh?rt? Der kann`s mit allen: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/multimessenger From star-bits at tx.rr.com Mon Jun 16 17:27:02 2008 From: star-bits at tx.rr.com (star-bits at tx.rr.com) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 17:27:02 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad - eBay auctions closing shortly Message-ID: <18619852.895771213651622338.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web08-z02> Greetings all I have afew auctions closing shortly including tagish lakd currently around $400/gm Mars shergottite individuals currently around $200/gm polymict diogenite currently less than 25% of what it s sell for. Oriented sikhote-alins bassikounou vigarano, carancas, allende, an LL3 and others. See them all at -- Eric Olson 7682 Firethorn Dr Fayetteville, NC 28311 http://www.star-bits.com From star-bits at tx.rr.com Mon Jun 16 17:56:49 2008 From: star-bits at tx.rr.com (star-bits at tx.rr.com) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 17:56:49 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Portales Valley Message-ID: <32214314.1726421213653409905.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web12-z02> Portales Valley was my first hunt for a fresh fall. Mike Farmer called to tell me about the fall. I wasn't able to get away immediately, but I borrowed a bunch of cash and a couple days later met Mike and Jack and Devon Shrader in southern New Mexico and followed Mike back to the fall site. I wound up sharing a hotel room with Mike and the first night there 2 locals showed up with a couple stones looking for Mike. Mike graciously allowed me to buy one of the stones. As I recall it was a very metal rich 212 gram stone purchased for $1500. The next day Mike told me he had a buyer for the stone for $2500. Since I was working with borrowed money I took the sale and over the years have regreted it many times. I never found a piece myself, but from descriptions of later finds I was within 50 meters of a number of pieces. I met Skip Wilson and spent several hours talking with him at his house. Mike and I got to look over the meteorites Skip had found over the years and through Skip, Mike and I were able to purchase and split what came to be known as Roosevelt County 102. Aside from being hot it was a very enjoyable time. Can't wait for the next fall. -- Eric Olson 7682 Firethorn Dr Fayetteville, NC 28311 http://www.star-bits.com From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Mon Jun 16 18:22:29 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 15:22:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Genetic Building Blocks May Have Formed in Space (Murchison Meteorite) Message-ID: <200806162222.PAA16084@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://space.newscientist.com/article/dn14142-genetic-building-blocks-may-have-formed-in-space.html Genetic building blocks may have formed in space Rachel Courtland New Scientist 13 June 2008 Some fundamental building blocks of our genetic code might have come from outer space, according to a controversial new meteorite study. The study suggests that some organic compounds associated with genetic material might have formed in a meteorite called Murchison before it landed in Australia in 1969. The chemicals are two kinds of nucleobases, ring-like carbon molecules that are essential for the creation of nucleic acids like DNA and RNA. The find might bolster claims that meteorites delivered some of the chemicals needed to create life. "It boosts the idea that the origin of life on Earth may have had an important contribution from an extraterrestrial object," says lead author Zita Martins, a chemist at Imperial College London in the UK. But it may be too early to conclude these nucleobases formed beyond the Earth, says Sandra Pizzarello, a chemist at Arizona State University in Tempe, US. The study "raises a very interesting question that was raised a very long time ago, but I don't think it solves it", she told New Scientist. No one knows how life got its start. Primitive Earth conditions might not have been favourable for the chemistry needed to create life's building blocks. Meteorite impacts Instead, researchers have argued that frequent bombardments by meteorites 3.8 billion years ago - when life is suspected to have first emerged - could have delivered the material to Earth, where it might have helped further the development of life. Studies of meteorites, as well as astronomical observations of interstellar dust and gas, have turned up a number of organic compounds, including sugars and phosphates. But nucleobases are also needed to make a nucleic acid like DNA or RNA. Such chemicals have been found in a number of meteorites, but no one was sure whether they were extraterrestrial in origin or the result of earthly contamination. Noisy signal To study the origins of these nucleobases, Martins and colleagues studied the mass of organic chemicals isolated from the meteorite. The team looked at two different isotopes of carbon in the chemicals, which included the nucleobases uracil and xanthine. The lighter version, carbon-12, is present on Earth in large amounts. Carbon-13 is more common in sweeping clouds of cold, interstellar gas. Large amounts of the stuff usually indicate the material did not form on Earth. The ratio of carbon-13 to carbon-12 was unusually high in the two nucleobases, leading the team to conclude the materials likely formed in the meteorite itself rather than on Earth. But Pizzarello says too many other chemicals were present in the samples to clearly distinguish the carbon ratio. "Analytically, it's not convincing," Pizzarello told New Scientist. Astrobiology - Learn more in our out-of-this-world special report . Journal reference: Earth and Planetary Science Letters (vol 270, p 130) From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Mon Jun 16 20:51:11 2008 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 17:51:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Stan turecki, proof of arrest for grand theft, burglery Message-ID: <312514.38012.qm@web33104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I paid for a background check on Mr. Stan Turecki, and here is what I found, of course, tons of files, but the actual arrest and prison sentence are below. He was in prison from Sept 1995 until November 1996, and he stole more than $100,000 in this case. People, we are dealing with a real piece of human crap here, I have got emails from people in Russia, France, and USA. He owes meteorite dealers and collectors well over $100,000. I am, compiling a list to present to the Port Richeypolice department. If this con-man owes you money, let me know, I am going to shut this guy down. Michael Farmer Criminal Profile Subject Name:TURECKI, STANLEY FREDERICKDate:6/16/2008 5:29:21 PM Nationwide criminal search for TURECKI, STANLEY FREDERICK Subject: Name:TURECKI, STANLEY FOffender Status:INACTIVE OFFENDERSex:MALERace:WHITEHeight:5'6"Eye color:GREENSSN:XXX-XX-7317Date of Birth:08/03/1975Offenses: Offense: 1BURG/UNNOCSTRUCT/CONVEYOffense State: FLOffense Date: 10/14/1994Case Number: 9504295Sentence: 1Sentence Begin Date:09/20/1995Actual Release:11/22/1996Admission Date:10/27/1995 Offense: 2BURG/UNNOCSTRUCT/CONVEYOffense State: FLOffense Date: 03/30/1995Case Number: 9504295 Offense: 3BURGLARY TOOLS-POSSESSOffense State: FLOffense Date: 10/14/1994Case Number: 9504295 Offense: 4GRAND THEFT O/$100,000 1STDEGOffense State: FLOffense Date: 10/14/1994Case Number: 9504295 Offense: 5TRAFFIC IN STOLEN PROPERTYOffense State: FLOffense Date: 10/14/1994Case Number: 9504295 From ensoramanda at ntlworld.com Mon Jun 16 20:49:35 2008 From: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com (ensoramanda) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 01:49:35 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Morocco Trip Message-ID: <48570A1F.7000304@ntlworld.com> Many thanks to all those on the list who have already helped by giving tips about places to see on my trip around Morocco at the beginning of July. Any more are always welcome. Looking forward to it. Hope you all have a great time in Ensisheim....dont think I can pull that in this year...will miss all the fun...was great last year...many thanks to Zelimir for that. Regards, Graham Ensor, UK From mmurray at montrose.net Mon Jun 16 20:57:03 2008 From: mmurray at montrose.net (Michael Murray) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 18:57:03 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Colorado DOW Habitat Stamp Message-ID: <59164EC1-007A-416D-A65C-654E73347852@montrose.net> Since there is a big one scheduled to come down somewhere over Colorado in the very near future, I wanted to get this tidbit of info out now to all the meteorite hunters that would travel here in such an event. My message has to do with the Division of Wildlife's Habitat Stamp. If you have purchased a Colorado hunting or fishing license this year, undoubtedly you were given council by the clerk selling you the license that you should also buy the Habitat Stamp for $5 which will allow you to access DOW property called State Wildlife Areas (SWA). What is the Stamp about? According to the DOW, "All of the funds raised from the sale of these stamps will be used to benefit wildlife by acquiring or preserving habitat." Okay, so I don't necessarily disagree with any of that and it is probably well known by outdoors sportsmen but.... Here is something about this requirement to have the stamp that may not be so well known. If you are NOT a hunter, or an angler but say a hiker, or camper, or bird watcher, or picnicker, or sightseer, or meteorite hunter, etc., and you are in the age group 19 to 64 years old, you also will need to have this stamp to "access" DOW property listed in their property directory as an SWA or State Trust Land leased by the DOW. There are only a few exceptions to this rule. SWAs are all over the place in Colorado. Its not uncommon at all to head up a road into the hills around here and find a sign declaring you are about to enter State Wildlife Area. The cost of the stamp to the non-hunter is $10.25 per person. Okay so not so much. Have a car filled with 5 or six people in the 19-64 age group without the stamps and they all get cited, well then it could become an expensive "access". Might even cost your group equal to the cost of a tank of diesel for your Hummer and we all know the sting in that. Okay, let the big one fall! Mike in CO From eric at meteoritewatch.com Mon Jun 16 23:41:28 2008 From: eric at meteoritewatch.com (Eric Wichman) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 20:41:28 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Big Ebay Sale - 10+ Kilos Plus Special Auction In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48573268.3090502@meteoritewatch.com> Hi All, We're having a BIG sale all this week with hundreds of NWA meteorites up for auction. We'll be listing more auctions than ever this week and need to move these meteorites now. Some BIG fusion crusted pieces too! Lots of meteorite starting at only $1.99 for 150+ grams. NWA 869, Canyon Diablo, Odessa, and 2 slices of NWA 2754 LL5, some NWA 4300, and 6 very nice pieces of NWA Mesosiderite to be listed in the next day or so. Also will be listing 2 very nice NWA chondrites with HUGE Protruding Chondrules, look for these this week. In the meantime be sure to bid on these auctions listed below as well. SUPER WONDERFUL FANTABULOUSLY GORGEOUS THUMBPRINTED FUSION CRUSTED BEAUTY - Starting @ .99 cents http://cgi.ebay.com/Special-3851g-Huge-NWA-XXX-CHONDRITE-METEORITE-AWESOME_W0QQitemZ250260289396 1982 Gram Large NWA XXX With Fusion Crust - Good solid piece, some weathering, Will Slice nicely. http://cgi.ebay.com/1982g-HUGE-NWA-XXX-CHONDRITE-METEORITE-MOROCCO-U7-001_W0QQitemZ260250444603 1579.1 Gram Large NWA XXX with weathered crust. Nice Big Piece. http://cgi.ebay.com/1579-1g-NWA-HUGE-XXX-CHONDRITE-METEORITE-MOROCCO_W0QQitemZ250257876571 359.8 Gram NWA XXX - Nice Thumbprints On Edges. Solid Piece Will Make Very Nice Polished Slices. http://cgi.ebay.com/359-8g-NWA-XXX-CHONDRITE-METEORITE-MOROCCO-U3-070_W0QQitemZ260250165335 61.1 Gram Full Slice Of Odessa Iron - Sanded and Ready For Etch http://cgi.ebay.com/61-1g-ODESSA-IRON-METEORITE-SLICE-CUT-SANDED-PIECE_W0QQitemZ250258567865 90.7 Gram Full Slice Of Odessa Iron - Sanded and Ready For Etch http://cgi.ebay.com/90-7g-ODESSA-IRON-METEORITE-SLICE-CUT-SANDED-PIECE_W0QQitemZ260250832550 105.3 Gram NWA XXX WIth Cool Shape - Some Residual Crust - Displays Nicely http://cgi.ebay.com/105-3g-NWA-XXX-CHONDRITE-METEORITE-MOROCCO-U3-071_W0QQitemZ260250164251 We've got over 120 auctions running right now in addition to our Ebay Store deals: http://stores.ebay.com/Little-Bits-Of-Earth Keep an eye out for more this week. Happy Bidding! Good Luck! Regards, Eric Wichman MeteoritesUSA MeteoriteWatch From Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr Tue Jun 17 01:44:46 2008 From: Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr (Zelimir Gabelica) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 07:44:46 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Morocco Trip In-Reply-To: <48570A1F.7000304@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20080617074327.02789850@pop.univ-mulhouse.fr> Thanks for your kind words Graham and for your appreciating our show We will miss you this time. Always feel free to come any time in future, you know that you are very welcome. And in 2009 it is the 10th anniversary of the show. We foresee a "great vintage". Good trip to Morocco. Some Morroccan dealers will be, as every year, in Ensisheim. But, if you can make Ste Marie the week after, many of them will be also most probably there around. At least Ali Hmani, who can give you interesting tips, has his curent tent in one of the main alleys of Ste Marie. Oh yes, while you are there, don't forget to contact also some mineral dealers from Morocco. They are well represented at Ste Marie, easy to spot and they will all be happy and proud to give you tips for a trip around their country. All my best wishes, Zelimir A 01:49 17/06/2008 +0100, ensoramanda a ?crit : >Many thanks to all those on the list who have already helped by giving >tips about places to see on my trip around Morocco at the beginning of >July. Any more are always welcome. Looking forward to it. > >Hope you all have a great time in Ensisheim....dont think I can pull that >in this year...will miss all the fun...was great last year...many thanks >to Zelimir for that. > >Regards, > >Graham Ensor, UK >______________________________________________ >http://www.meteoritecentral.com >Meteorite-list mailing list >Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Universit? de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 From Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr Tue Jun 17 05:05:07 2008 From: Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr (Zelimir Gabelica) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 11:05:07 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ensisheim: latest news In-Reply-To: References: <20080616121114.290190@gmx.net> <822da19a0806152024q1199c78cp8b8f792843f645cd@mail.gmail.com> <20080616121114.290190@gmx.net> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20080616180427.01304b10@pop.univ-mulhouse.fr> Hi list, Some recent news about "Ensisheim 2008" that starts in 3 days from now, this answering various requirements and questions I am currently receiving: 1) Weather forecast (reliability about 75%): Today is ending the medium-cold & rainy wave (18?C) with a significant temperature increase and clearing predicted for Wed. & Thu (for early-early birds): 24?C, partly cloudy. Friday: light morning rain possibilities and 23?C (71 F), so that the dinner party could either be held outside (not very likely) or, more probably in the famous cellar. Saturday: 23?C, dry, partly cloudy, just appropriate for evening meals in the outside tents, music and dancing activities on the main square. Sunday: sunny and heat wave starting (27?C = about 81 F), extending on Monday (29?C, thunderstorms possible) for those already heading to Ste Marie, exploring wineyards or just visiting. 2) I had a contact with our friend Serge Afanasiev. He will be "free again" from next November and so will be Slava Skorniakov. Both firmly expect being our guests in 2009. Serge anounced that Dima Sadilenko and Sergey Petukhov will be again representing Russia as dealers in Ensisheim 2008. All tables are rented except 2 of them that are "on hold" (for 2 very last minute participants who currently "forget to confirm"...(they are lucky that our rules can sometimes be less rigid than elsewhere...selectively for them! - hey folks, this is my last warning!) 3) So far I have 85 participants who reserved for the Friday dinner-party. We can easily accomodate 95, as last year. This is my last call for a few "lunatics" (never worry, Norbert, your place is firmly reserved...) 4) The thematic exhibit (meteorites from Russia and Eastern Europe) will be greatly enhanced by some impressive meteorites brought by our "brother-guardian" Sergey Sasiliev "from some private collections or museums". Here is the list: 1. Brient (AEUC-P), 20.15g, two sides cut fragment w. some crust, label from Moscow Academy of Sciences (MAS) 2. Chervony Kut (AEUC-M), 83.81g, complete slice with crust all around, label MAS 3. Elenovka (L5), 52.4g, fragment with some crust, from private collector 4. Elga (IIE), 22.6g, etched block, from MAS but no label 5. Erevan (AHOW), 3.0g, partial slice w. some crust, label MAS 6. Glasatovo (H4), 8.8g, partial slice w. some crust, from private collector 7. Ivanovka (H5), 102.8g, partial slice w. some rusty crust, from MAS but no label 8. Lipovsky (PAL), 262g, end cut w. some rusty crust, from Kharkov Univ., Ukraine, no label 9. Krasnojarsk (PAL-MG), 222g, one side cut fragment, from St.Petersburg Mining Museum, no label but small number on the specimen 10. Krymka (LL3.1), 28.2g, end cut with crust, from private collector 11. Novo-Urei (AURE), 17.4g, slice, label MAS 12. Ochansk (H4), 1723.6g, complete stone with crust, label from Kazan University, Russia 13. Padvarninkai (AEUC-M), 9.7g, partial slice with crust, label MAS 14. Pesyanoe (AUB), 48.5g, fragment with some crust, label MAS 15. Pomozdino (AEC-C), 30.56, almost complete slice w. crust, label MAS 16. Pervomaisky (L6), 836.4g, complete stone, label MAS 17. Vetluga (AEUC-M), 35.37g, partial slice w. crust, label MAS 18. Yurtuk (AHOW), 21.6g, half stone w. crust, from MAS but no label 19. Zhmenj (AHOW), 2.88g, partial slice, label MAS 20. Pavlovka (AHOW), 0.264g, fragment w. some crust, from private collector Note many rare types (IIE, AEUC, AUB, AHOW...), odd provenances (Erevan, Padvarninkai, Pavlovka, Zhmenj...), large "more common" pieces (262g Lipovsky, 222 g (!) Krasnojarsk, or almost 2 kg of crusted Ochansk. And who has ever seen a "giant" (48.5 g) Pesyanoe aubrite, a 17.4 g of Novo-Urei or a 30.6 g complete slice of Pomozdino eucrite (tkw = 327 grams!) ? Their exhibit will be completed by some less commonly seen pieces from other collections, among which: Augustinovka (45.1 g), Bachmut, 65.4 g), Braunau (6.65 g), Gressk (5.54 g), Hraschina slice (3.1 g), Jelica (12.8 g), Khmelevka (11.6 g), Krymka (17.4 g), Kunashak (31.4 g), Kuznetsovo, a "hammer!,(7.8 g); Mez?-Madaras (3.5 g), Milena (15.2 g), Seel?sgen (64.1 g), Tabor (14 g), Tomakovka (15 g), Tsarev (290 g), Vavilovka (9.7 g), Zaklodzie (14.1 g), and a pannel with some very rare micromounts. For sure, you will also see many weird shaped Sikhote-Alins, old Pultusks, Brahins or that 918 g Seymchan with the outline of the "profile of Jacques Chirac", a 333 g full slice of Vyatka, a nicely oriented (!) Morasko chunk (253 g) or a very fresh 91.5 g Kainsaz resembling the recently admired "pic of the day". A few old Russian original meteorite books such as the treatises of Stoikovich (1807), Mukhin (1819) or the more recently (1949), but still famous piece of work of Krinov. 5) Consignment room/tables: As every year, various collectors will present for sale some of the threasures they have in collection. This year we have 7 anonymous and one well identified collectors (me!) who will offer quite interesting material. Tektites from Paracale (rizalites), from Anda (old finds but recent purchases - Feb. '08), Cambodia (with Khmer labels) and a large 406 g splash disk of "Vietnamite" from Minh Phu (Yen Bai). Many medium sized, some quite rare meteorites will be also displayed, along with a couple of masterpieces such as: - a 864 g full slice (280x180x3 mm) of the new Brenham find (all metal, no olivine with nice schreibersite swords streaking the dominant octahedrite pattern), - a 718 g Mundrabilla troilite-filled full slice (210x110x9 mm) carrying an 1996 label of Robert Reeves collection., - a full slice (115x90x4 mm) 73.3 g of Allende from TCU, - a 180 g end section of Capot Rey, - a fully shield-oriented 173 g unclassified NWA found near Zagora in 2003, etc. A few books are also offered, among which the very searched for "Meteoritenkunde" (1884-1905) by Cohen (Cohenite), 3 uncut (!) volumes. I don't read German neither have an idea of the value of this treatise but the (relatively) high price asked probably argues for something rare... 6) Friday trades: Many asked whether transactions will start during the Friday tables setting up by dealers. We are sorry to confirm that, for obvious security reasons (significant meteorites were stolen during tables arrangements last year!), the only persons allowed to enter the Regency building are those carrying dealer's badges. Badges are attributed only to persons who officially registered. "Various dealer's friends" must be excluded if they don't wear their (personal!) badge. Such "friends" were most probably involved in the preceding year's notable thefths. Transactions are allowed only outside the Regency rooms until the setting up of tables is over (it ends at about 6:00 pm, just before the enthroning ceremonies that are followed by the "friendly drink" also offered to "friends and related"...). 7) No reason to exclude the overall appreciated funny atmosphere during business parties I'll be happy to continue answering specific questions or requests. Thanks to all and happy hunting soon throughout the Regency Palace! Zelimir Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Universit? de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 From tett at rogers.com Tue Jun 17 06:06:26 2008 From: tett at rogers.com (tett) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 06:06:26 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ensisheim: latest news References: <20080616121114.290190@gmx.net><822da19a0806152024q1199c78cp8b8f792843f645cd@mail.gmail.com><20080616121114.290190@gmx.net> <5.0.2.1.2.20080616180427.01304b10@pop.univ-mulhouse.fr> Message-ID: <003101c8d061$ced65fe0$6401a8c0@tett1> Zelimer, Wow! What an incredible collection of Eastern European Meteorites. I am so sorry that I am not able to attend the show. Will there be any chance of photos of this display? Cheers, Mike Tettenborn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zelimir Gabelica" To: Cc: "dominique VELUT" ; "jean Marie Blosser" Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 5:05 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Ensisheim: latest news Hi list, Some recent news about "Ensisheim 2008" that starts in 3 days from now, this answering various requirements and questions I am currently receiving: 1) Weather forecast (reliability about 75%): Today is ending the medium-cold & rainy wave (18?C) with a significant temperature increase and clearing predicted for Wed. & Thu (for early-early birds): 24?C, partly cloudy. Friday: light morning rain possibilities and 23?C (71 F), so that the dinner party could either be held outside (not very likely) or, more probably in the famous cellar. Saturday: 23?C, dry, partly cloudy, just appropriate for evening meals in the outside tents, music and dancing activities on the main square. Sunday: sunny and heat wave starting (27?C = about 81 F), extending on Monday (29?C, thunderstorms possible) for those already heading to Ste Marie, exploring wineyards or just visiting. 2) I had a contact with our friend Serge Afanasiev. He will be "free again" from next November and so will be Slava Skorniakov. Both firmly expect being our guests in 2009. Serge anounced that Dima Sadilenko and Sergey Petukhov will be again representing Russia as dealers in Ensisheim 2008. All tables are rented except 2 of them that are "on hold" (for 2 very last minute participants who currently "forget to confirm"...(they are lucky that our rules can sometimes be less rigid than elsewhere...selectively for them! - hey folks, this is my last warning!) 3) So far I have 85 participants who reserved for the Friday dinner-party. We can easily accomodate 95, as last year. This is my last call for a few "lunatics" (never worry, Norbert, your place is firmly reserved...) 4) The thematic exhibit (meteorites from Russia and Eastern Europe) will be greatly enhanced by some impressive meteorites brought by our "brother-guardian" Sergey Sasiliev "from some private collections or museums". Here is the list: 1. Brient (AEUC-P), 20.15g, two sides cut fragment w. some crust, label from Moscow Academy of Sciences (MAS) 2. Chervony Kut (AEUC-M), 83.81g, complete slice with crust all around, label MAS 3. Elenovka (L5), 52.4g, fragment with some crust, from private collector 4. Elga (IIE), 22.6g, etched block, from MAS but no label 5. Erevan (AHOW), 3.0g, partial slice w. some crust, label MAS 6. Glasatovo (H4), 8.8g, partial slice w. some crust, from private collector 7. Ivanovka (H5), 102.8g, partial slice w. some rusty crust, from MAS but no label 8. Lipovsky (PAL), 262g, end cut w. some rusty crust, from Kharkov Univ., Ukraine, no label 9. Krasnojarsk (PAL-MG), 222g, one side cut fragment, from St.Petersburg Mining Museum, no label but small number on the specimen 10. Krymka (LL3.1), 28.2g, end cut with crust, from private collector 11. Novo-Urei (AURE), 17.4g, slice, label MAS 12. Ochansk (H4), 1723.6g, complete stone with crust, label from Kazan University, Russia 13. Padvarninkai (AEUC-M), 9.7g, partial slice with crust, label MAS 14. Pesyanoe (AUB), 48.5g, fragment with some crust, label MAS 15. Pomozdino (AEC-C), 30.56, almost complete slice w. crust, label MAS 16. Pervomaisky (L6), 836.4g, complete stone, label MAS 17. Vetluga (AEUC-M), 35.37g, partial slice w. crust, label MAS 18. Yurtuk (AHOW), 21.6g, half stone w. crust, from MAS but no label 19. Zhmenj (AHOW), 2.88g, partial slice, label MAS 20. Pavlovka (AHOW), 0.264g, fragment w. some crust, from private collector Note many rare types (IIE, AEUC, AUB, AHOW...), odd provenances (Erevan, Padvarninkai, Pavlovka, Zhmenj...), large "more common" pieces (262g Lipovsky, 222 g (!) Krasnojarsk, or almost 2 kg of crusted Ochansk. And who has ever seen a "giant" (48.5 g) Pesyanoe aubrite, a 17.4 g of Novo-Urei or a 30.6 g complete slice of Pomozdino eucrite (tkw = 327 grams!) ? Their exhibit will be completed by some less commonly seen pieces from other collections, among which: Augustinovka (45.1 g), Bachmut, 65.4 g), Braunau (6.65 g), Gressk (5.54 g), Hraschina slice (3.1 g), Jelica (12.8 g), Khmelevka (11.6 g), Krymka (17.4 g), Kunashak (31.4 g), Kuznetsovo, a "hammer!,(7.8 g); Mez?-Madaras (3.5 g), Milena (15.2 g), Seel?sgen (64.1 g), Tabor (14 g), Tomakovka (15 g), Tsarev (290 g), Vavilovka (9.7 g), Zaklodzie (14.1 g), and a pannel with some very rare micromounts. For sure, you will also see many weird shaped Sikhote-Alins, old Pultusks, Brahins or that 918 g Seymchan with the outline of the "profile of Jacques Chirac", a 333 g full slice of Vyatka, a nicely oriented (!) Morasko chunk (253 g) or a very fresh 91.5 g Kainsaz resembling the recently admired "pic of the day". A few old Russian original meteorite books such as the treatises of Stoikovich (1807), Mukhin (1819) or the more recently (1949), but still famous piece of work of Krinov. 5) Consignment room/tables: As every year, various collectors will present for sale some of the threasures they have in collection. This year we have 7 anonymous and one well identified collectors (me!) who will offer quite interesting material. Tektites from Paracale (rizalites), from Anda (old finds but recent purchases - Feb. '08), Cambodia (with Khmer labels) and a large 406 g splash disk of "Vietnamite" from Minh Phu (Yen Bai). Many medium sized, some quite rare meteorites will be also displayed, along with a couple of masterpieces such as: - a 864 g full slice (280x180x3 mm) of the new Brenham find (all metal, no olivine with nice schreibersite swords streaking the dominant octahedrite pattern), - a 718 g Mundrabilla troilite-filled full slice (210x110x9 mm) carrying an 1996 label of Robert Reeves collection., - a full slice (115x90x4 mm) 73.3 g of Allende from TCU, - a 180 g end section of Capot Rey, - a fully shield-oriented 173 g unclassified NWA found near Zagora in 2003, etc. A few books are also offered, among which the very searched for "Meteoritenkunde" (1884-1905) by Cohen (Cohenite), 3 uncut (!) volumes. I don't read German neither have an idea of the value of this treatise but the (relatively) high price asked probably argues for something rare... 6) Friday trades: Many asked whether transactions will start during the Friday tables setting up by dealers. We are sorry to confirm that, for obvious security reasons (significant meteorites were stolen during tables arrangements last year!), the only persons allowed to enter the Regency building are those carrying dealer's badges. Badges are attributed only to persons who officially registered. "Various dealer's friends" must be excluded if they don't wear their (personal!) badge. Such "friends" were most probably involved in the preceding year's notable thefths. Transactions are allowed only outside the Regency rooms until the setting up of tables is over (it ends at about 6:00 pm, just before the enthroning ceremonies that are followed by the "friendly drink" also offered to "friends and related"...). 7) No reason to exclude the overall appreciated funny atmosphere during business parties I'll be happy to continue answering specific questions or requests. Thanks to all and happy hunting soon throughout the Regency Palace! Zelimir Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Universit? de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From ohtsuka at jb3.so-net.ne.jp Tue Jun 17 09:25:20 2008 From: ohtsuka at jb3.so-net.ne.jp (ohtsuka at jb3.so-net.ne.jp) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 22:25:20 +0900 (JST) Subject: [meteorite-list] =?iso-2022-jp?b?Q2FyYW5jYXMgcGFwZXI=?= In-Reply-To: <20080616153413.197250@gmx.net> References: <822da19a0806152024q1199c78cp8b8f792843f645cd@mail.gmail.com> <20080616121114.290190@gmx.net> <20080616153413.197250@gmx.net> Message-ID: <200806171325.m5HDPKfb032506@mx55.ms.so-net.ne.jp> Hello list members, I have just downloaded a free PDF file of the letter paper on the Carancas event, published in A&A yesterday. This seems to be very interesting and the link is below: http://www.aanda.org/index.php?option=article&access=standard&Itemid=129&url=/articles/aa/abs/2008/26/aa09905-08/aa09905-08.html Katsu Tokyo, JAPAN ------------------------------------------------------ A&A 485, L1-L4 (2008) DOI: 10.1051/0004-6361:200809905 Letter The Carancas meteorite impact - Encounter with a monolithic meteoroid J. Borovicka and P. Spurn? Astronomical Institute of the Academy of Sciences, Fricova 298, 25165 Ondrejov Observatory, Czech Republic e-mail: borovic at asu.cas.cz Received 4 April 2008 / Accepted 4 May 2008 Abstract The formation of a 13-m wide impact crater by a stony meteorite near Carancas, Peru, on September 15, 2007 was an unexpected event. Stony meteoroids usually disintegrate in the atmosphere in many pieces, each landing at low velocity. We present examples of well-observed fireballs, which have all experienced atmospheric fragmentation. Using a simple model, we find that the Carancas meteoroid may have avoided fragmentation, if its strength was 20-40 MPa; such a strength would be comparable to the tensile strength of stony meteorites, but is higher than the strength of other observed meteoroids. We conclude that Carancas was a rare example of a monolithic meteoroid that was free of internal cracks. This example demonstrates that meteoroid strength can vary significantly from case to case and does not depend on meteoroid size. We estimate that the initial size of Carancas meteoroid was 0.9-1.7 m. Our model predicts an impact velocity that w as in the range 2-4 km s-1. Key words: meteors, meteoroids -- Earth From michael at spacerocksinc.com Tue Jun 17 09:53:43 2008 From: michael at spacerocksinc.com (Michael Johnson) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 06:53:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 17, 2008 Message-ID: <13451038.625801213710823055.JavaMail.root@mbs6.homesteadmail.com> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/June_17_2008.html From drtanuki at yahoo.com Tue Jun 17 11:48:25 2008 From: drtanuki at yahoo.com (drtanuki) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 08:48:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Portales Valley photos and list updated Message-ID: <489360.47838.qm@web53202.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Dear List, The photos of the Portales Valley slices are now posted on my website at: http://meteoritesjapan.com/forsale.aspx Please check out the other fine meteorites I am offering. Thank you. Please contact me off list for questions. Best Regards, Dirk Ross...Tokyo From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com Tue Jun 17 12:17:57 2008 From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 09:17:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] CAMEL DONGA FOR TRADE Message-ID: <197065.160.qm@web57809.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi list.I have a 24 gram camel donga that is 100 fusion crusted.I am looking for a slice of estherville.75 grams or bigger.Picture on my miscellaneous meteorite page.Let me know offlist. Steve R.Arnold,chicago,Ill,Usa!! ???? The Asteroid Belt! ??? http://chicagometeorites.net/ ??? Collecting Meteorites since 06/19/1999 ??? Ebay I.D. Illinoismeteorites From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Tue Jun 17 12:27:09 2008 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 17 Jun 2008 16:27:09 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] RFS Picture of the Day: Philippe Thomas' NWA 4769 (LL3.8) Message-ID: Descriptive note by the author: "A type-II porphyritic pyroxene (PP) chondrule in crossed polarized light. Thin section from the NWA 4769 LL3.8, S1, W1 chondrite." Hello List, An almost identical chondrule is pictured in: NORTON O. R. (2002) The Cambridge Encyclopedia of Meteorites (Cambridge University Press) on page 110. On pp. 109-110, you'll also find information on why this chondrule-type is called a type II porphyritic chondrule. Best wishes from the proud owner of a beautiful 5.95-gram slice of this troilite-rich desert beauty. My slice also features a gorgeous 7 x 5 mm troilite bleb and several oval chondrules! Bernd From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Tue Jun 17 13:54:55 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 10:54:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA Phoenix Lander Bakes Sample, Arm Digs Deeper Message-ID: <200806171754.KAA18644@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2008-111b NASA Phoenix Lander Bakes Sample, Arm Digs Deeper Jet Propulsion Laboratory June 16, 2008 TUCSON, Ariz. -- One of the ovens on NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander continued baking its first sample of Martian soil over the weekend, while the Robotic Arm dug deeper into the soil to learn more about white material first revealed on June 3. "The oven is working very well and living up to our expectations," said Phoenix co-investigator Bill Boynton of the University of Arizona, Tucson. Boynton leads the Thermal and Evolved-Gas Analyzer (TEGA), or oven instrument, for Phoenix. Phoenix has eight separate tiny ovens to bake and sniff the soil and look for volatile ingredients, such as water. This baking is performed at three different temperature ranges. On Sol 18 (June 12), the lander's Robotic Arm dug deeper into the two trenches, informally called "Dodo" and "Goldilocks," where white material was previously found. This created one large trench, now called "Dodo-Goldilocks." "We have continued to excavate in the Dodo-Goldilocks trench to expose more of the light-toned material, and we will monitor the site," said Robotic Arm lead scientist Ray Arvidson of the University of Washington, St. Louis. "If the material is ice, it should change with time. Frost may form on it, or it could slowly sublimate." Sublimation is the process where a solid changes directly into gas. The Dodo-Goldilocks trench is 22 centimeters wide (8.7 inches) and 35 centimeters long (13.8 inches). The trench is seven to eight centimeters (2.7 to 3 inches) deep at its deepest. The deepest portion is closest to the lander. The white material is located only at the shallowest part of the trench, farthest from the lander, indicating that it is not continuous throughout the excavated site. The trench might be exposing a ledge, or only a portion of a slab, of the white material, according to scientists. The Phoenix mission is led by Peter Smith with project management at JPL and development partnership at Lockheed Martin, located in Denver. International contributions come from the Canadian Space Agency; the University of Neuchatel, Switzerland; the universities of Copenhagen and Aarhus, Denmark; Max Planck Institute, Germany; and the Finnish Meteorological Institute. For more about Phoenix, visit: http://www.nasa.gov/phoenix and http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Media contacts: Guy Webster 818-354-6278 Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. guy.webster at jpl.nasa.gov Dwayne Brown 202-358-1726 NASA Headquarters, Washington dwayne.c.brown at nasa.gov Sara Hammond 520-626-1974 University of Arizona, Tucson shammond at lpl.arizona.edu From pshugar at clearwire.net Mon Jun 16 15:39:46 2008 From: pshugar at clearwire.net (Pete Shugar) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 14:39:46 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA Phoenix Lander Bakes Sample, Arm Digs Deeper References: <200806171754.KAA18644@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <001c01c8cfe8$c0dfbdb0$0201a8c0@laptop> My question is: If there are only 8 ovens on the Lander, what happens when they are all full? Is there a provision to dump the ovens and reuse them? Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Baalke" To: "Meteorite Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 12:54 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA Phoenix Lander Bakes Sample, Arm Digs Deeper > > http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2008-111b > > NASA Phoenix Lander Bakes Sample, Arm Digs Deeper > Jet Propulsion Laboratory > June 16, 2008 > > TUCSON, Ariz. -- One of the ovens on NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander > continued baking its first sample of Martian soil over the weekend, > while the Robotic Arm dug deeper into the soil to learn more about white > material first revealed on June 3. > > "The oven is working very well and living up to our expectations," said > Phoenix co-investigator Bill Boynton of the University of Arizona, > Tucson. Boynton leads the Thermal and Evolved-Gas Analyzer (TEGA), or > oven instrument, for Phoenix. > > Phoenix has eight separate tiny ovens to bake and sniff the soil and > look for volatile ingredients, such as water. This baking is performed > at three different temperature ranges. > > On Sol 18 (June 12), the lander's Robotic Arm dug deeper into the two > trenches, informally called "Dodo" and "Goldilocks," where white > material was previously found. This created one large trench, now called > "Dodo-Goldilocks." > > "We have continued to excavate in the Dodo-Goldilocks trench to expose > more of the light-toned material, and we will monitor the site," said > Robotic Arm lead scientist Ray Arvidson of the University of Washington, > St. Louis. "If the material is ice, it should change with time. Frost > may form on it, or it could slowly sublimate." Sublimation is the > process where a solid changes directly into gas. > > The Dodo-Goldilocks trench is 22 centimeters wide (8.7 inches) and 35 > centimeters long (13.8 inches). The trench is seven to eight centimeters > (2.7 to 3 inches) deep at its deepest. The deepest portion is closest to > the lander. > > The white material is located only at the shallowest part of the trench, > farthest from the lander, indicating that it is not continuous > throughout the excavated site. The trench might be exposing a ledge, or > only a portion of a slab, of the white material, according to scientists. > > The Phoenix mission is led by Peter Smith with project management at JPL > and development partnership at Lockheed Martin, located in Denver. > International contributions come from the Canadian Space Agency; the > University of Neuchatel, Switzerland; the universities of Copenhagen and > Aarhus, Denmark; Max Planck Institute, Germany; and the Finnish > Meteorological Institute. For more about Phoenix, visit: > http://www.nasa.gov/phoenix and http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Media contacts: Guy Webster 818-354-6278 > Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. > guy.webster at jpl.nasa.gov > > Dwayne Brown 202-358-1726 > NASA Headquarters, Washington > dwayne.c.brown at nasa.gov > > Sara Hammond 520-626-1974 > University of Arizona, Tucson > shammond at lpl.arizona.edu > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From fuzzfoot at comcast.net Tue Jun 17 16:20:27 2008 From: fuzzfoot at comcast.net (Mike Bandli) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 13:20:27 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA Phoenix Lander Bakes Sample, Arm Digs Deeper In-Reply-To: <001c01c8cfe8$c0dfbdb0$0201a8c0@laptop> Message-ID: <20080617202101.7D6491055A@mailwash5.pair.com> Hi Pete, Unfortunately, all eight of the ovens cannot be emptied or re-used for other tests. I believe I remember hearing it had something to do with saving weight on the craft. Best, Mike Bandli ? -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Pete Shugar Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 12:40 PM To: Ron Baalke; Meteorite Mailing List Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NASA Phoenix Lander Bakes Sample,Arm Digs Deeper My question is: If there are only 8 ovens on the Lander, what happens when they are all full? Is there a provision to dump the ovens and reuse them? Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Baalke" To: "Meteorite Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 12:54 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA Phoenix Lander Bakes Sample, Arm Digs Deeper > > http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2008-111b > > NASA Phoenix Lander Bakes Sample, Arm Digs Deeper > Jet Propulsion Laboratory > June 16, 2008 > > TUCSON, Ariz. -- One of the ovens on NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander > continued baking its first sample of Martian soil over the weekend, > while the Robotic Arm dug deeper into the soil to learn more about white > material first revealed on June 3. > > "The oven is working very well and living up to our expectations," said > Phoenix co-investigator Bill Boynton of the University of Arizona, > Tucson. Boynton leads the Thermal and Evolved-Gas Analyzer (TEGA), or > oven instrument, for Phoenix. > > Phoenix has eight separate tiny ovens to bake and sniff the soil and > look for volatile ingredients, such as water. This baking is performed > at three different temperature ranges. > > On Sol 18 (June 12), the lander's Robotic Arm dug deeper into the two > trenches, informally called "Dodo" and "Goldilocks," where white > material was previously found. This created one large trench, now called > "Dodo-Goldilocks." > > "We have continued to excavate in the Dodo-Goldilocks trench to expose > more of the light-toned material, and we will monitor the site," said > Robotic Arm lead scientist Ray Arvidson of the University of Washington, > St. Louis. "If the material is ice, it should change with time. Frost > may form on it, or it could slowly sublimate." Sublimation is the > process where a solid changes directly into gas. > > The Dodo-Goldilocks trench is 22 centimeters wide (8.7 inches) and 35 > centimeters long (13.8 inches). The trench is seven to eight centimeters > (2.7 to 3 inches) deep at its deepest. The deepest portion is closest to > the lander. > > The white material is located only at the shallowest part of the trench, > farthest from the lander, indicating that it is not continuous > throughout the excavated site. The trench might be exposing a ledge, or > only a portion of a slab, of the white material, according to scientists. > > The Phoenix mission is led by Peter Smith with project management at JPL > and development partnership at Lockheed Martin, located in Denver. > International contributions come from the Canadian Space Agency; the > University of Neuchatel, Switzerland; the universities of Copenhagen and > Aarhus, Denmark; Max Planck Institute, Germany; and the Finnish > Meteorological Institute. For more about Phoenix, visit: > http://www.nasa.gov/phoenix and http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Media contacts: Guy Webster 818-354-6278 > Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. > guy.webster at jpl.nasa.gov > > Dwayne Brown 202-358-1726 > NASA Headquarters, Washington > dwayne.c.brown at nasa.gov > > Sara Hammond 520-626-1974 > University of Arizona, Tucson > shammond at lpl.arizona.edu > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From marcin at polandmet.com Tue Jun 17 17:41:03 2008 From: marcin at polandmet.com (PolandMET) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 23:41:03 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Am I missing something here? References: <822da19a0806152024q1199c78cp8b8f792843f645cd@mail.gmail.com><20080616121114.290190@gmx.net> Message-ID: <000e01c8d0c2$d75a47b0$0d00000a@polandmezrd5i9> Thanks to Mr Grossman for interesting explanation. Yes I have two new chondrites NWA 5206 LL3.05 (prov.) NWA 5205 LL3.2 (prov.) and together with my old NWA 4560 LL3.1 this make very nice trio. Im now preparing for Ensisheim so I have no time to make photos and update my website. Collectors who will be in Ground Zero next weekend, You can look at them in person. Others must wait few days longer when I comeback from Ensisheim and rest a litte :) See You soon in France! -----[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-----[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]----- http://www.Meteoryty.pl marcin(at)meteoryty.pl http://www.PolandMET.com marcin(at)meteorite.pl http://www.Gao-Guenie.com GSM: +48 (793) kosmos --------[ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society ]-------- From michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com Tue Jun 17 17:43:51 2008 From: michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com (Michael Gilmer) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 14:43:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD : Sell/Trade Telescope Eyepieces for Meteorites/Cash In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <147904.15370.qm@web58414.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi! Attention fellow list members who are also stargazers. I have some telescope gear that I would like to convert to meteorites - either directly via trade or by selling the gear to get cash to buy meteorites. To avoid shipping hassles, I would prefer to deal with someone in the US only at this time. I'm flexible on my prices, so if something looks interesting but my price is too high, make me a reasonable offer. I am an experienced optics trader and I flipped scopes to pay for my telescope collection, before I started collecting meteorites. So I know how to pack fragile/valuable instruments for shipping. 1) Orion Stratus 13mm Widefield eyepiece. 1.25" format, 20mm eye relief, 68 degree AFOV, well corrected, fully multicoated. Excellent condition. Comes with both end caps and drawstring bag. Asking $75 cash or trade. 2) Celestron X-Cel 5mm eyepiece. 20mm eye relief, 1.25" format, fully multicoated. I'm not sure what the AFOV is, but it's similar to a Plossl. This is a good eyepiece at f/8 or slower. In faster scopes, it's pretty soft. In an Mak/SCT, this is a good cheap alternative to a Radian. Asking $30 cash or trade. 3) Custom built hardwood tripod legs. 2" thick, made of white ash, purple heart, and walnut. Professionally made by a friend of mine at my request - these are beautiful and rock solid. Fixed-length, approx. 48" tall. Metal spikes at the end of the legs. Nice poly water resistant clearcoat finish. These will fit all standard CG5/Vixen GP/SVP type mount hubs. I have the 3 legs, a spreader tray (not clearcoated), and hub bolts. Does NOT include the mount hub. All you provide is your own mount. Upgrade those wobbly metal legs to beautiful hardwood 2"-thick legs - these legs eat vibration for lunch. I have mounted a 6" Mak and Vixen SP/GP mount on these legs, and it was solid without any shaking. In fit and finish, these legs are as pretty as the Televue or Takahashi wood legs, but sturdier. The leg length is perfect for short tube telescopes. A pier-extension is recommended for long tube scopes like slow refractors. Asking $250 shipped for the legs - due to shipping size. I can provide photos of everything described here. The tripod legs are SWEET. I have had this same craftsman make an observing chair and a binocular parallelogram mount for me - all have attracted a ton of compliments everytime they are shown. He does good work and has a waiting list. I will take cash, but I will also entertain offers in trade for meteorites. I'm looking for a large pretty UNWA stone about the size of a baseball - it must have some nice crust and/or wind polish at least, no weathered-up caliche rocks. I'm also looking for nice etched slices of finer octahedrites like Gibeon. I also collect and sell micromounts, so I will buy or trade for cutting crumbs of rare/unusual types. Contact me off-list with offers or email me at the following address - mike at galactic-stone.com I prefer to use PayPal. Thanks for looking and clear skies! :) ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale .......................................................... From bigpineartifacts at yahoo.com Tue Jun 17 18:54:50 2008 From: bigpineartifacts at yahoo.com (mckinney trammell) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 15:54:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] mars ice cap pix Message-ID: <899458.39557.qm@web53212.mail.re2.yahoo.com> is there a link to pix taken from the recent landing on ice caps? From pshugar at clearwire.net Mon Jun 16 19:26:08 2008 From: pshugar at clearwire.net (Pete Shugar) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 18:26:08 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA Phoenix Lander Bakes Sample, Arm Digs Deeper References: <200806172021.m5HKL1mk030142@mail154c8.megamailservers.com> Message-ID: <000801c8d008$5e64a8b0$0201a8c0@laptop> I guess that means only 8 experiments and then it becomes a high dollar garbage can.. Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Bandli" To: "'Pete Shugar'" ; "'Ron Baalke'" ; "'Meteorite Mailing List'" Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 3:20 PM Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] NASA Phoenix Lander Bakes Sample,Arm Digs Deeper > Hi Pete, > > Unfortunately, all eight of the ovens cannot be emptied or re-used for > other > tests. I believe I remember hearing it had something to do with saving > weight on the craft. > > Best, > > Mike Bandli > > > -----Original Message----- > From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Pete > Shugar > Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 12:40 PM > To: Ron Baalke; Meteorite Mailing List > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NASA Phoenix Lander Bakes Sample,Arm Digs > Deeper > > My question is: > If there are only 8 ovens on the Lander, what happens when they are > all full? Is there a provision to dump the ovens and reuse them? > Pete > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ron Baalke" > To: "Meteorite Mailing List" > Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 12:54 PM > Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA Phoenix Lander Bakes Sample, Arm Digs > Deeper > > >> >> http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2008-111b >> >> NASA Phoenix Lander Bakes Sample, Arm Digs Deeper >> Jet Propulsion Laboratory >> June 16, 2008 >> >> TUCSON, Ariz. -- One of the ovens on NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander >> continued baking its first sample of Martian soil over the weekend, >> while the Robotic Arm dug deeper into the soil to learn more about white >> material first revealed on June 3. >> >> "The oven is working very well and living up to our expectations," said >> Phoenix co-investigator Bill Boynton of the University of Arizona, >> Tucson. Boynton leads the Thermal and Evolved-Gas Analyzer (TEGA), or >> oven instrument, for Phoenix. >> >> Phoenix has eight separate tiny ovens to bake and sniff the soil and >> look for volatile ingredients, such as water. This baking is performed >> at three different temperature ranges. >> >> On Sol 18 (June 12), the lander's Robotic Arm dug deeper into the two >> trenches, informally called "Dodo" and "Goldilocks," where white >> material was previously found. This created one large trench, now called >> "Dodo-Goldilocks." >> >> "We have continued to excavate in the Dodo-Goldilocks trench to expose >> more of the light-toned material, and we will monitor the site," said >> Robotic Arm lead scientist Ray Arvidson of the University of Washington, >> St. Louis. "If the material is ice, it should change with time. Frost >> may form on it, or it could slowly sublimate." Sublimation is the >> process where a solid changes directly into gas. >> >> The Dodo-Goldilocks trench is 22 centimeters wide (8.7 inches) and 35 >> centimeters long (13.8 inches). The trench is seven to eight centimeters >> (2.7 to 3 inches) deep at its deepest. The deepest portion is closest to >> the lander. >> >> The white material is located only at the shallowest part of the trench, >> farthest from the lander, indicating that it is not continuous >> throughout the excavated site. The trench might be exposing a ledge, or >> only a portion of a slab, of the white material, according to scientists. >> >> The Phoenix mission is led by Peter Smith with project management at JPL >> and development partnership at Lockheed Martin, located in Denver. >> International contributions come from the Canadian Space Agency; the >> University of Neuchatel, Switzerland; the universities of Copenhagen and >> Aarhus, Denmark; Max Planck Institute, Germany; and the Finnish >> Meteorological Institute. For more about Phoenix, visit: >> http://www.nasa.gov/phoenix and http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu. >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> Media contacts: Guy Webster 818-354-6278 >> Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. >> guy.webster at jpl.nasa.gov >> >> Dwayne Brown 202-358-1726 >> NASA Headquarters, Washington >> dwayne.c.brown at nasa.gov >> >> Sara Hammond 520-626-1974 >> University of Arizona, Tucson >> shammond at lpl.arizona.edu >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > From lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu Tue Jun 17 20:02:49 2008 From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu (lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 17:02:49 -0700 (MST) Subject: [meteorite-list] mars ice cap pix In-Reply-To: <899458.39557.qm@web53212.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <899458.39557.qm@web53212.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <50706.71.226.60.25.1213747369.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> Try: http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/ Larry L. On Tue, June 17, 2008 3:54 pm, mckinney trammell wrote: > is there a link to pix taken from the recent landing on ice caps? > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From mexicodoug at aim.com Tue Jun 17 20:30:00 2008 From: mexicodoug at aim.com (mexicodoug at aim.com) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 20:30:00 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA Phoenix Lander Bakes Sample, Arm Digs Deeper In-Reply-To: <000801c8d008$5e64a8b0$0201a8c0@laptop> References: <200806172021.m5HKL1mk030142@mail154c8.megamailservers.com> <000801c8d008$5e64a8b0$0201a8c0@laptop> Message-ID: <8CA9EF193BDB9C7-98C-168A@WEBMAIL-MB19.sysops.aol.com> "I guess that means only 8 experiments and then it becomes a high dollar garbage can.." Pete, "only?" "high dollar garbage can?"?? That sounds a bit too aggressive of a criticism for my taste in light of the historic accomplishments in progress on the frigid Polar surface of Mars. Have you ever cleaned out an oven? Decontaminated it without having any water or liquids? I guess NASA preferred not to wrap the baked goods in aluminum baggies and not make the Mars under the lander a garbage heap of disposable crap and contaminating solvents. I'm not critical of that. I don't what you are thinking, but 8 oven cycles sounds like 8 times infinity more quality oven time than "we" had before. Best wishes, Doug PS Speaking about learning to clean out the oven, I recommend to you the comedy movie, "A Day without a Mexican", and think Mars instead of California :) If that is too testy, how 'bout "To Build a Fire" by Jack London? -----Original Message----- From: Pete Shugar To: Mike Bandli ; 'Ron Baalke' ; 'Meteorite Mailing List' Sent: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 6:26 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NASA Phoenix Lander Bakes Sample, Arm Digs Deeper I guess that means only 8 experiments and then it becomes a high dollar garbage can..? Pete? ? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Bandli" ? To: "'Pete Shugar'" ; "'Ron Baalke'" ; "'Meteorite Mailing List'" ? Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 3:20 PM? Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] NASA Phoenix Lander Bakes Sample,Arm Digs Deeper? ? > Hi Pete,? >? > Unfortunately, all eight of the ovens cannot be emptied or re-used for > other? > tests. I believe I remember hearing it had something to do with saving? > weight on the craft.? >? > Best,? >? > Mike Bandli? >? >? > -----Original Message-----? > From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com? > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Pete? > Shugar? > Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 12:40 PM? > To: Ron Baalke; Meteorite Mailing List? > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NASA Phoenix Lander Bakes Sample,Arm Digs? > Deeper? >? > My question is:? > If there are only 8 ovens on the Lander, what happens when they are? > all full? Is there a provision to dump the ovens and reuse them?? > Pete? >? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ron Baalke" ? > To: "Meteorite Mailing List" ? > Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 12:54 PM? > Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA Phoenix Lander Bakes Sample, Arm Digs > Deeper? >? >? >>? >> http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2008-111b? >>? >> NASA Phoenix Lander Bakes Sample, Arm Digs Deeper? >> Jet Propulsion Laboratory? >> June 16, 2008? >>? >> TUCSON, Ariz. -- One of the ovens on NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander? >> continued baking its first sample of Martian soil over the weekend,? >> while the Robotic Arm dug deeper into the soil to learn more about white? >> material first revealed on June 3.? >>? >> "The oven is working very well and living up to our expectations," said? >> Phoenix co-investigator Bill Boynton of the University of Arizona,? >> Tucson. Boynton leads the Thermal and Evolved-Gas Analyzer (TEGA), or? >> oven instrument, for Phoenix.? >>? >> Phoenix has eight separate tiny ovens to bake and sniff the soil and? >> look for volatile ingredients, such as water. This baking is performed? >> at three different temperature ranges.? >>? >> On Sol 18 (June 12), the lander's Robotic Arm dug deeper into the two? >> trenches, informally called "Dodo" and "Goldilocks," where white? >> material was previously found. This created one large trench, now called? >> "Dodo-Goldilocks."? >>? >> "We have continued to excavate in the Dodo-Goldilocks trench to expose? >> more of the light-toned material, and we will monitor the site," said? >> Robotic Arm lead scientist Ray Arvidson of the University of Washington,? >> St. Louis. "If the material is ice, it should change with time. Frost? >> may form on it, or it could slowly sublimate." Sublimation is the? >> process where a solid changes directly into gas.? >>? >> The Dodo-Goldilocks trench is 22 centimeters wide (8.7 inches) and 35? >> centimeters long (13.8 inches). The trench is seven to eight centimeters? >> (2.7 to 3 inches) deep at its deepest. The deepest portion is closest to? >> the lander.? >>? >> The white material is located only at the shallowest part of the trench,? >> farthest from the lander, indicating that it is not continuous? >> throughout the excavated site. The trench might be exposing a ledge, or? >> only a portion of a slab, of the white material, according to scientists.? >>? >> The Phoenix mission is led by Peter Smith with project management at JPL? >> and development partnership at Lockheed Martin, located in Denver.? >> International contributions come from the Canadian Space Agency; the? >> University of Neuchatel, Switzerland; the universities of Copenhagen and? >> Aarhus, Denmark; Max Planck Institute, Germany; and the Finnish? >> Meteorological Institute. For more about Phoenix, visit:? >> http://www.nasa.gov/phoenix and http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu.? >>? >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------? >>? >> Media contacts: Guy Webster 818-354-6278? >> Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif.? >> guy.webster at jpl.nasa.gov? >>? >> Dwayne Brown 202-358-1726? >> NASA Headquarters, Washington? >> dwayne.c.brown at nasa.gov? >>? >> Sara Hammond 520-626-1974? >> University of Arizona, Tucson? >> shammond at lpl.arizona.edu? >>? >> ______________________________________________? >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com? >> Meteorite-list mailing list? >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com? >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list? >>? > ______________________________________________? > http://www.meteoritecentral.com? > Meteorite-list mailing list? > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com? > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list? >? >? > ? ______________________________________________? http://www.meteoritecentral.com? Meteorite-list mailing list? Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com? http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list? From pshugar at clearwire.net Mon Jun 16 22:21:00 2008 From: pshugar at clearwire.net (Pete Shugar) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 21:21:00 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA Phoenix Lander Bakes Sample, Arm Digs Deeper References: <200806172021.m5HKL1mk030142@mail154c8.megamailservers.com><000801c8d008$5e64a8b0$0201a8c0@laptop> <8CA9EF193BDB9C7-98C-168A@WEBMAIL-MB19.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <000501c8d020$cadfbad0$0201a8c0@laptop> I agree that we have learned tons more than what we did know. What I am wondering is if the lander can move to new locations or will it be only at this one location. Otherwise we will learn a lot about a very small patch of Mars. I think the other 2 rovers will provide more science due to examining many places instead of just the one small patch of Mars that will checked. I agree it will be very a intensive in depth look at a small spot. It may sound as an aggressive criticism for your taste, but that is a truth. If the Lander could move to new locations and dump it's ovens for use in new experiments we would have generated a larger amount of science. Maybe it's just that I'm not as up on this probe as I am on the other two. Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 7:30 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NASA Phoenix Lander Bakes Sample,Arm Digs Deeper > "I guess that means only 8 experiments and then it becomes a high dollar > garbage can.." > > Pete, "only?" "high dollar garbage can?"?? That sounds a bit too > aggressive of a criticism for my taste in light of the historic > accomplishments in progress on the frigid Polar surface of Mars. > > Have you ever cleaned out an oven? Decontaminated it without having any > water or liquids? I guess NASA preferred not to wrap the baked goods in > aluminum baggies and not make the Mars under the lander a garbage heap of > disposable crap and contaminating solvents. I'm not critical of that. > > I don't what you are thinking, but 8 oven cycles sounds like 8 times > infinity more quality oven time than "we" had before. > > Best wishes, > Doug > PS Speaking about learning to clean out the oven, I recommend to you the > comedy movie, "A Day without a Mexican", and think Mars instead of > California :) If that is too testy, how 'bout "To Build a Fire" by Jack > London? > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Pete Shugar > To: Mike Bandli ; 'Ron Baalke' > ; 'Meteorite Mailing List' > > Sent: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 6:26 pm > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NASA Phoenix Lander Bakes Sample, Arm Digs > Deeper > > > I guess that means only 8 experiments and then it becomes a high dollar > garbage can.. Pete > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Bandli" > To: "'Pete Shugar'" ; "'Ron Baalke'" > ; "'Meteorite Mailing List'" > Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 3:20 PM > Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] NASA Phoenix Lander Bakes Sample,Arm Digs > Deeper >> Hi Pete, Unfortunately, all eight of the ovens cannot be emptied or >> re-used > for > other >> tests. I believe I remember hearing it had something to do with > saving >> weight on the craft. Best, Mike Bandli -----Original Message----- >> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com >> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of > Pete >> Shugar Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 12:40 PM To: Ron Baalke; Meteorite >> Mailing List Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NASA Phoenix Lander Bakes >> Sample,Arm > Digs >> Deeper My question is: If there are only 8 ovens on the Lander, what >> happens when they are all full? Is there a provision to dump the ovens >> and reuse them? Pete ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ron Baalke" > >> To: "Meteorite Mailing List" Sent: >> Tuesday, June 17, 2008 12:54 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA Phoenix >> Lander Bakes Sample, Arm Digs Deeper >>> >>> http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2008-111b NASA Phoenix >>> Lander Bakes Sample, Arm Digs Deeper Jet Propulsion Laboratory June 16, >>> 2008 TUCSON, Ariz. -- One of the ovens on NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander >>> continued baking its first sample of Martian soil over the weekend, >>> while the Robotic Arm dug deeper into the soil to learn more about > white >>> material first revealed on June 3. "The oven is working very well and >>> living up to our expectations," > said >>> Phoenix co-investigator Bill Boynton of the University of Arizona, >>> Tucson. Boynton leads the Thermal and Evolved-Gas Analyzer (TEGA), > or >>> oven instrument, for Phoenix. Phoenix has eight separate tiny ovens to >>> bake and sniff the soil and look for volatile ingredients, such as >>> water. This baking is > performed >>> at three different temperature ranges. On Sol 18 (June 12), the lander's >>> Robotic Arm dug deeper into the > two >>> trenches, informally called "Dodo" and "Goldilocks," where white >>> material was previously found. This created one large trench, now > called >>> "Dodo-Goldilocks." "We have continued to excavate in the Dodo-Goldilocks >>> trench to > expose >>> more of the light-toned material, and we will monitor the site," > said >>> Robotic Arm lead scientist Ray Arvidson of the University of > Washington, >>> St. Louis. "If the material is ice, it should change with time. > Frost >>> may form on it, or it could slowly sublimate." Sublimation is the >>> process where a solid changes directly into gas. The Dodo-Goldilocks >>> trench is 22 centimeters wide (8.7 inches) and > 35 >>> centimeters long (13.8 inches). The trench is seven to eight > centimeters >>> (2.7 to 3 inches) deep at its deepest. The deepest portion is > closest to >>> the lander. The white material is located only at the shallowest part of >>> the > trench, >>> farthest from the lander, indicating that it is not continuous >>> throughout the excavated site. The trench might be exposing a ledge, > or >>> only a portion of a slab, of the white material, according to > scientists. >>> >>> The Phoenix mission is led by Peter Smith with project management at > JPL >>> and development partnership at Lockheed Martin, located in Denver. >>> International contributions come from the Canadian Space Agency; the >>> University of Neuchatel, Switzerland; the universities of Copenhagen > and >>> Aarhus, Denmark; Max Planck Institute, Germany; and the Finnish >>> Meteorological Institute. For more about Phoenix, visit: >>> http://www.nasa.gov/phoenix and http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>> >>> Media contacts: Guy Webster 818-354-6278 Jet Propulsion Laboratory, >>> Pasadena, Calif. guy.webster at jpl.nasa.gov Dwayne Brown 202-358-1726 NASA >>> Headquarters, Washington dwayne.c.brown at nasa.gov Sara Hammond >>> 520-626-1974 University of Arizona, Tucson shammond at lpl.arizona.edu >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From fuzzfoot at comcast.net Tue Jun 17 22:54:28 2008 From: fuzzfoot at comcast.net (Mike Bandli) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 19:54:28 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Show your meteorite art Message-ID: <20080618025457.B701110534@mailwash5.pair.com> We've seen some amazing meteorite artwork from some fellow collectors. From Fred Olsen's incredible Ensi-woodcut repro to Graham Ensor's original etched Seymchan transfer. Since the list has been slow lately and I thought it might be fun to see other people's meteorite related art/prints/objects/paintings/etc.. (besides the rocks themselves) Original or repro. Amateur or professional. I'm curious to see other meteorite related art that may exist that we all may not know about. A local frame shop was running a custom framing sale and I finally had a couple pieces done. Fred Olsen's Ensi-woodcut: http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-11/877141/Ensi-Print.jpg One of Svend Buhl's repro-prints (Hessle Meteorites): http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-11/877141/Hessle-Print.jpg I can't believe how expensive custom framing is these days, but they sure look nice on the wall! Even my wife agrees. Eventually, I will have everything framed and sprinkled about the house. Kind regards, ? Mike Bandli www.Astro-Artifacts.com IMCA #5765 ? From meteoritekid at gmail.com Tue Jun 17 23:42:13 2008 From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 20:42:13 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Show your meteorite art In-Reply-To: <20080618025457.B701110534@mailwash5.pair.com> References: <20080618025457.B701110534@mailwash5.pair.com> Message-ID: <93aaac890806172042v55adb0d7ub79b9386b87886ef@mail.gmail.com> Hola Mike, All, Here are a few shots of a painting of mine from this past year... http://flickr.com/photos/cameteoritefinder/2588462425/ Eh, I had fun with it, and for a rough job...I was satisfied anyways. I've also recently uploaded a number of other photographs of meteorites...have a look through the photostream. I've taken to trying to go for more more artistic shots than the typical "find-in-situ" stuff. Regards, Jason On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 7:54 PM, Mike Bandli wrote: > We've seen some amazing meteorite artwork from some fellow collectors. From > Fred Olsen's incredible Ensi-woodcut repro to Graham Ensor's original etched > Seymchan transfer. > > Since the list has been slow lately and I thought it might be fun to see > other people's meteorite related art/prints/objects/paintings/etc.. (besides > the rocks themselves) Original or repro. Amateur or professional. > > I'm curious to see other meteorite related art that may exist that we all > may not know about. > > A local frame shop was running a custom framing sale and I finally had a > couple pieces done. > > Fred Olsen's Ensi-woodcut: > > http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-11/877141/Ensi-Print.jpg > > One of Svend Buhl's repro-prints (Hessle Meteorites): > > http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-11/877141/Hessle-Print.jpg > > I can't believe how expensive custom framing is these days, but they sure > look nice on the wall! Even my wife agrees. Eventually, I will have > everything framed and sprinkled about the house. > > Kind regards, > > Mike Bandli > www.Astro-Artifacts.com > IMCA #5765 > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From bigpineartifacts at yahoo.com Tue Jun 17 23:51:31 2008 From: bigpineartifacts at yahoo.com (mckinney trammell) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 20:51:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] estherville crystals Message-ID: <571269.67099.qm@web53207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> i got an estherville that has a crystal about 3/8" across w/ a pronounced , highly relfective , (if not perfect) clevage plane. what type of mineral might this be? From jnbran at verizon.net Wed Jun 18 00:05:47 2008 From: jnbran at verizon.net (JASON PHILLIPS) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 23:05:47 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Show your meteorite art References: <20080618025457.B701110534@mailwash5.pair.com> Message-ID: <005301c8d0f8$975adb80$4001a8c0@yourlk4rlmsu41> Hello Mike and List, I have a page on my website (meteorite art) where I asked kids of all ages to draw what they thought it would look like if they saw a meteorite fall. Some of the kids did a great job. Take Care, Jason Rocks from Heaven www.rocksfromheaven.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Bandli" To: "'Meteorite Mailing List'" Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 9:54 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Show your meteorite art We've seen some amazing meteorite artwork from some fellow collectors. From Fred Olsen's incredible Ensi-woodcut repro to Graham Ensor's original etched Seymchan transfer. Since the list has been slow lately and I thought it might be fun to see other people's meteorite related art/prints/objects/paintings/etc.. (besides the rocks themselves) Original or repro. Amateur or professional. I'm curious to see other meteorite related art that may exist that we all may not know about. A local frame shop was running a custom framing sale and I finally had a couple pieces done. Fred Olsen's Ensi-woodcut: http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-11/877141/Ensi-Print.jpg One of Svend Buhl's repro-prints (Hessle Meteorites): http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-11/877141/Hessle-Print.jpg I can't believe how expensive custom framing is these days, but they sure look nice on the wall! Even my wife agrees. Eventually, I will have everything framed and sprinkled about the house. Kind regards, Mike Bandli www.Astro-Artifacts.com IMCA #5765 ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From jnbran at verizon.net Wed Jun 18 00:09:35 2008 From: jnbran at verizon.net (JASON PHILLIPS) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 23:09:35 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Murchison vs. other CM's References: <20080618025457.B701110534@mailwash5.pair.com> Message-ID: <005e01c8d0f9$1ef70b40$4001a8c0@yourlk4rlmsu41> Hello List, Is Murchison the only CM to contain amino acids that are not found on earth? Take Care, Jason Rocks from Heaven www.rocksfromheaven.com From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Wed Jun 18 00:09:58 2008 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 21:09:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Ensisheim time, escape from Tucson inferno! Message-ID: <616143.6522.qm@web33102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Well, in about 14 hours, I am off to France and Germany again, seems like it was just yesterday that I was there, the years are flying by faster than a falling meteorite! Zelimir delivered very welcome news to me, I can only dream of 20c/70F temps, as today in Tucson we hit 42c/109 F. It is miserable here. I saw a fossil guy here today who just returned from Morocco, and he said it was cool in the Sahara compared to Tucson right now. I leave tomorrow morning, so when I get up at 6 am, if there are any last minute requests for material for me to bring to the shows, let me know, otherwise, you are out of luck! I have been packing all day and have over 100 kilos of baggage, so it had better be samll or expensive for me to bring at this point. Anyway, I should have limited email over there, but I find France is the most internet-unfriendly place on the planet, you often have to drive 20 or 30 km to find an internet cafe. See everyone there in Friday afternoon. Michael Farmer From fuzzfoot at comcast.net Wed Jun 18 01:19:33 2008 From: fuzzfoot at comcast.net (Mike Bandli) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 22:19:33 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Murchison vs. other CM's In-Reply-To: <005e01c8d0f9$1ef70b40$4001a8c0@yourlk4rlmsu41> Message-ID: <20080618052004.7AD381053F@mailwash5.pair.com> Most of the CM falls have been shown to contain extraterrestrial amino acids. Orgueil and Ivuna also contain extraterrestrial amino acids, but the CM's contain the widest variety and most complex forms. Cheers, ? Mike Bandli www.Astro-Artifacts.com IMCA #5765 ? -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of JASON PHILLIPS Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 9:10 PM To: 'Meteorite Mailing List' Subject: [meteorite-list] Murchison vs. other CM's Hello List, Is Murchison the only CM to contain amino acids that are not found on earth? Take Care, Jason Rocks from Heaven www.rocksfromheaven.com ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From fuzzfoot at comcast.net Wed Jun 18 01:37:13 2008 From: fuzzfoot at comcast.net (Mike Bandli) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 22:37:13 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Murchison vs. other CM's (2) In-Reply-To: <20080618052004.7AD381053F@mailwash5.pair.com> Message-ID: <20080618053744.32B1B1054F@mailwash5.pair.com> I just realized that my original answer does not answer your question and does not distinguish between 'extraterrestrial' and 'not-found on earth.' For example: despite being chemically synthesized in space, 17 of the AA's found in Murchison, DO exist on earth. The remainder does not. I cannot find any recent numbers for other CM's like Murray. I'm sure someone else can post that data? Kind regards, ? Mike Bandli www.Astro-Artifacts.com ? -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Mike Bandli Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 10:20 PM To: 'JASON PHILLIPS'; 'Meteorite Mailing List' Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Murchison vs. other CM's Most of the CM falls have been shown to contain extraterrestrial amino acids. Orgueil and Ivuna also contain extraterrestrial amino acids, but the CM's contain the widest variety and most complex forms. Cheers, ? Mike Bandli www.Astro-Artifacts.com IMCA #5765 ? -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of JASON PHILLIPS Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 9:10 PM To: 'Meteorite Mailing List' Subject: [meteorite-list] Murchison vs. other CM's Hello List, Is Murchison the only CM to contain amino acids that are not found on earth? Take Care, Jason Rocks from Heaven www.rocksfromheaven.com ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mexicodoug at aim.com Wed Jun 18 01:46:28 2008 From: mexicodoug at aim.com (mexicodoug at aim.com) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 01:46:28 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Murchison vs. other CM's In-Reply-To: <20080618052004.7AD381053F@mailwash5.pair.com> Message-ID: <8CA9F1DC9727925-18C-3319@webmail-de19.sysops.aol.com> Hi Jason and Mike and CM2 fans, ...and a good example is the Murray CM2 (Kentucky, USA, fall, 1950) meteorite which has many non-canonical amino acids similar to the composition of Murchison. The amino acids occur in the parts per million concentration ranges, and destructive analysis for small samples where volatiles are still retained severely restricts analytical research due to availability. Murchison, thankfully provided a windfall of material and is the most accessible to be studied. Undoubtable other examples in the scientific community from the cold Antarctic are preserved reasonably and could be analyzed as well. Only 14 fresh falls of CM2's have occurred in the last couple of centuries, not giving too much material to go around. Though in the past 50 years analytical techniques have become more sensitive, looking for larger molecules in those concentrations in what is left from their virgin cores is probably still very tricky. Using the magic USGS/MetSoc database as a reference, here they all are with the TKW's and the percent each fall represents of the total TKW's of CM2 falls. Murchison 100.00 75.1% Murray 12.60 9.5% Mighei 8.00 6.0% Cold Bokkeveld 5.20 3.9% Nogoya 4.00 3.0% Boriskino 1.34 1.0% Banten 0.63 0.5% Sayama 0.43 0.3% Haripura 0.32 0.2% Pollen 0.25 0.2% Erakot 0.11 0.1% Nawapali 0.11 0.1% Crescent 0.08 0.1% Santa Cruz 0.06 0.0% No wonder we have info on Murchison and Murray ... Best wishes, Doug -----Original Message----- From: Mike Bandli To: 'JASON PHILLIPS' ; 'Meteorite Mailing List' Sent: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 12:19 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Murchison vs. other CM's Most of the CM falls have been shown to contain extraterrestrial amino acids. Orgueil and Ivuna also contain extraterrestrial amino acids, but the CM's contain the widest variety and most complex forms. Cheers, ? Mike Bandli www.Astro-Artifacts.com IMCA #5765 ? -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of JASON PHILLIPS Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 9:10 PM To: 'Meteorite Mailing List' Subject: [meteorite-list] Murchison vs. other CM's Hello List, Is Murchison the only CM to contain amino acids that are not found on earth? Take Care, Jason Rocks from Heaven www.rocksfromheaven.com ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Wed Jun 18 02:51:42 2008 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 01:51:42 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA Phoenix Lander Bakes Sample, Arm Digs Deeper References: <200806172021.m5HKL1mk030142@mail154c8.megamailservers.com><000801c8d008$5e64a8b0$0201a8c0@laptop><8CA9EF193BDB9C7-98C-168A@WEBMAIL-MB19.sysops.aol.com> <000501c8d020$cadfbad0$0201a8c0@laptop> Message-ID: <031f01c8d10f$c4b43c40$8d5ae146@ATARIENGINE> Hi, Pete, List, This mission was named Phoenix in recognition of the fact that like the mythical Phoenix, it rose from the ashes of the dead! Once upon a time, there were two Mars missions that died: the 2001 Mars Surveyor lander was cancelled in 2000, and the Mars Polar Lander was lost on Mars in 1999. Demonstrating the inscrutable wisdom that politicians, beaurocrats, and authorities often possess that we lowly groundlings lack, the 2001 Mars Surveyor Lander was canceled after it was already built and paid for. (Anybody remember the Superconducting Super Collider?) At any rate, the 2001 Mars Surveyor Lander had been kept in storage at Lockheed Martin clean room in Sunnyvale. And there were extra "stay-at-home" duplicates of some instruments for the Polar Lander, and there was a bit here and there, and there were projects without a vehicle or hope of getting another one... Upshot: for a lousy $386 million, which includes the launch and all tips for room service, You The Taxpayer get a whole new Mars Mission. Quit whining. For comparison, we spend $343 million each and every day in Iraq doing whatever it is that we're doing there. Actually, I lied. Phoenix needed an extra $31 million beyond the budget of $386 million and was almost cancelled over it. The altimeter was from the Mars Polar Lander (you know, the one that crashed). It seems that, hmm... a faulty altimeter may have been to blame for that. It's taken from the one used in F-16 fighter planes. Some software problems on the F-16 altimeter were fixed, but the altimeter for Phoenix did not get the software upgrade. They spent about six months fixing the gizmo, driving up costs. And, hey! It worked, didn't it? Additionally, they had to pay for searching for a boulder-free landing spot, using the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter which, yes, charges for its services, even to other missions, because every spot they picked had boulders. There's a helluva lot of boulders on Mars... The partnership developing the Phoenix mission includes: the University of Arizona, NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Lockheed Martin Space Systems in Denver and the Canadian Space Agency, which is providing weather instruments. Peter H. Smith of the University of Arizona, Lunar and Planetary Laboratory heads the Phoenix mission. Thanks. Born from the ashes it may be, but Phoenix will die in the cold. It's going into summer in the Martian Arctic; the mission lifetime is about 150 days. Phoenix won't survive winter. I also notice news people describing the Phoenix as having landed at Mars's "North Pole," even people on this List. If you were aliens going to land on Earth, would you land on the dead center of Antarctica? Why? Phoenix is on the southern edge of the "Boreal Vastness" (translating from the Latin name); it is above the Martian Arctic Circle, barely (68.35 deg North). For a location comparison by latitude, think of landing in the Northwest Territories of Canada. The "Boreal Vastness" is a flat featureless low-lying that covers about the upper third of Mars; many think it is an ancient sea bed. Your criticisms might be to the point if we belonged to a species and lived in a culture that made rational and intelligent long-term plans to do the things that are truly essential and important to them. If you know of such a place, let me know. I sincerely hope you can convince somebody to land a multi-ton rompin' rover with nuclear eight-wheel drive, power take-off drills on both ends, linear laboratory analysis machines with continuous pass-through of Martian samples and 18 experiments online in each one (let's have four of'em) and a sample return rocket that sends 100 kg of Martian samples up to Martian orbit to be returned to Earth. Let's have two, if you're in the mood... Sterling K. Webb --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete Shugar" To: ; Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 9:21 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NASA Phoenix Lander Bakes Sample,Arm Digs Deeper I agree that we have learned tons more than what we did know. What I am wondering is if the lander can move to new locations or will it be only at this one location. Otherwise we will learn a lot about a very small patch of Mars. I think the other 2 rovers will provide more science due to examining many places instead of just the one small patch of Mars that will checked. I agree it will be very a intensive in depth look at a small spot. It may sound as an aggressive criticism for your taste, but that is a truth. If the Lander could move to new locations and dump it's ovens for use in new experiments we would have generated a larger amount of science. Maybe it's just that I'm not as up on this probe as I am on the other two. Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 7:30 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NASA Phoenix Lander Bakes Sample,Arm Digs Deeper > "I guess that means only 8 experiments and then it becomes a high dollar > garbage can.." > > Pete, "only?" "high dollar garbage can?"?? That sounds a bit too > aggressive of a criticism for my taste in light of the historic > accomplishments in progress on the frigid Polar surface of Mars. > > Have you ever cleaned out an oven? Decontaminated it without having any > water or liquids? I guess NASA preferred not to wrap the baked goods in > aluminum baggies and not make the Mars under the lander a garbage heap of > disposable crap and contaminating solvents. I'm not critical of that. > > I don't what you are thinking, but 8 oven cycles sounds like 8 times > infinity more quality oven time than "we" had before. > > Best wishes, > Doug > PS Speaking about learning to clean out the oven, I recommend to you the > comedy movie, "A Day without a Mexican", and think Mars instead of > California :) If that is too testy, how 'bout "To Build a Fire" by Jack > London? > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Pete Shugar > To: Mike Bandli ; 'Ron Baalke' > ; 'Meteorite Mailing List' > > Sent: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 6:26 pm > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NASA Phoenix Lander Bakes Sample, Arm Digs > Deeper > > > I guess that means only 8 experiments and then it becomes a high dollar > garbage can.. Pete > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Bandli" > To: "'Pete Shugar'" ; "'Ron Baalke'" > ; "'Meteorite Mailing List'" > Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 3:20 PM > Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] NASA Phoenix Lander Bakes Sample,Arm Digs > Deeper >> Hi Pete, Unfortunately, all eight of the ovens cannot be emptied or >> re-used > for > other >> tests. I believe I remember hearing it had something to do with > saving >> weight on the craft. Best, Mike Bandli -----Original Message----- >> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com >> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of > Pete >> Shugar Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 12:40 PM To: Ron Baalke; Meteorite >> Mailing List Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NASA Phoenix Lander Bakes >> Sample,Arm > Digs >> Deeper My question is: If there are only 8 ovens on the Lander, what >> happens when they are all full? Is there a provision to dump the ovens >> and reuse them? Pete ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ron Baalke" > >> To: "Meteorite Mailing List" Sent: >> Tuesday, June 17, 2008 12:54 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA Phoenix >> Lander Bakes Sample, Arm Digs Deeper >>> >>> http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2008-111b NASA Phoenix >>> Lander Bakes Sample, Arm Digs Deeper Jet Propulsion Laboratory June 16, >>> 2008 TUCSON, Ariz. -- One of the ovens on NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander >>> continued baking its first sample of Martian soil over the weekend, >>> while the Robotic Arm dug deeper into the soil to learn more about > white >>> material first revealed on June 3. "The oven is working very well and >>> living up to our expectations," > said >>> Phoenix co-investigator Bill Boynton of the University of Arizona, >>> Tucson. Boynton leads the Thermal and Evolved-Gas Analyzer (TEGA), > or >>> oven instrument, for Phoenix. Phoenix has eight separate tiny ovens to >>> bake and sniff the soil and look for volatile ingredients, such as >>> water. This baking is > performed >>> at three different temperature ranges. On Sol 18 (June 12), the lander's >>> Robotic Arm dug deeper into the > two >>> trenches, informally called "Dodo" and "Goldilocks," where white >>> material was previously found. This created one large trench, now > called >>> "Dodo-Goldilocks." "We have continued to excavate in the Dodo-Goldilocks >>> trench to > expose >>> more of the light-toned material, and we will monitor the site," > said >>> Robotic Arm lead scientist Ray Arvidson of the University of > Washington, >>> St. Louis. "If the material is ice, it should change with time. > Frost >>> may form on it, or it could slowly sublimate." Sublimation is the >>> process where a solid changes directly into gas. The Dodo-Goldilocks >>> trench is 22 centimeters wide (8.7 inches) and > 35 >>> centimeters long (13.8 inches). The trench is seven to eight > centimeters >>> (2.7 to 3 inches) deep at its deepest. The deepest portion is > closest to >>> the lander. The white material is located only at the shallowest part of >>> the > trench, >>> farthest from the lander, indicating that it is not continuous >>> throughout the excavated site. The trench might be exposing a ledge, > or >>> only a portion of a slab, of the white material, according to > scientists. >>> >>> The Phoenix mission is led by Peter Smith with project management at > JPL >>> and development partnership at Lockheed Martin, located in Denver. >>> International contributions come from the Canadian Space Agency; the >>> University of Neuchatel, Switzerland; the universities of Copenhagen > and >>> Aarhus, Denmark; Max Planck Institute, Germany; and the Finnish >>> Meteorological Institute. For more about Phoenix, visit: >>> http://www.nasa.gov/phoenix and http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>> >>> Media contacts: Guy Webster 818-354-6278 Jet Propulsion Laboratory, >>> Pasadena, Calif. guy.webster at jpl.nasa.gov Dwayne Brown 202-358-1726 NASA >>> Headquarters, Washington dwayne.c.brown at nasa.gov Sara Hammond >>> 520-626-1974 University of Arizona, Tucson shammond at lpl.arizona.edu >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu Wed Jun 18 06:37:00 2008 From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu (lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 03:37:00 -0700 (MST) Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA Phoenix Lander Bakes Sample, Arm Digs Deeper In-Reply-To: <031f01c8d10f$c4b43c40$8d5ae146@ATARIENGINE> References: <200806172021.m5HKL1mk030142@mail154c8.megamailservers.com><000801c8d008$5e64a8b0$0201a8c0@laptop><8CA9EF193BDB9C7-98C-168A@WEBMAIL-MB19.sysops.aol.com> <000501c8d020$cadfbad0$0201a8c0@laptop> <031f01c8d10f$c4b43c40$8d5ae146@ATARIENGINE> Message-ID: <51384.71.226.60.25.1213785420.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> Hello Sterling: I think that it was a software failure that doomed Mars Polar Lander: When the spacecraft sensed that the vehicle had landed, then the engines were to cut off. This was done by noting that the landing legs flexed (sprung back as a shock absorber) as the ship touched down. However, as it turned out, when the legs were deployed, having springs, guess what, they sprung back a little. The engines sensed this as "we are on the ground" and not "oh, the legs just deployed," and so the engines turned off at 40 meters altitude, making the landing not so soft. Larry On Tue, June 17, 2008 11:51 pm, Sterling K. Webb wrote: > Hi, Pete, List, > > > This mission was named Phoenix in recognition > of the fact that like the mythical Phoenix, it rose from the ashes of the > dead! Once upon a time, there were two Mars missions that died: the 2001 > Mars Surveyor > lander was cancelled in 2000, and the Mars Polar Lander was lost on Mars in > 1999. > > > Demonstrating the inscrutable wisdom that politicians, > beaurocrats, and authorities often possess that we lowly groundlings lack, > the 2001 Mars Surveyor Lander was canceled after it was already built and > paid for. (Anybody remember the Superconducting Super Collider?) > > At any rate, the 2001 Mars Surveyor Lander had been > kept in storage at Lockheed Martin clean room in Sunnyvale. And there were > extra "stay-at-home" duplicates of some instruments for the Polar Lander, > and there was a bit here and there, and there were projects without a > vehicle or hope of getting another one... > > Upshot: for a lousy $386 million, which includes the launch > and all tips for room service, You The Taxpayer get a whole new Mars > Mission. Quit whining. For comparison, we spend > $343 million each and every day in Iraq doing whatever it is > that we're doing there. > > Actually, I lied. Phoenix needed an extra $31 million beyond > the budget of $386 million and was almost cancelled over it. The altimeter > was from the Mars Polar Lander (you know, the one that crashed). It seems > that, hmm... a faulty altimeter may have been to blame for that. > > It's taken from the one used in F-16 fighter planes. Some > software problems on the F-16 altimeter were fixed, but the altimeter for > Phoenix did not get the software upgrade. They > spent about six months fixing the gizmo, driving up costs. And, hey! It > worked, didn't it? > > Additionally, they had to pay for searching for a boulder-free > landing spot, using the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter which, yes, charges for > its services, even to other missions, because every spot they picked had > boulders. There's a helluva lot of boulders on Mars... > > The partnership developing the Phoenix mission > includes: the University of Arizona, NASA's Jet Propulsion > Laboratory, Lockheed Martin Space Systems in Denver and > the Canadian Space Agency, which is providing weather instruments. Peter H. > Smith of the University of Arizona, Lunar > and Planetary Laboratory heads the Phoenix mission. > > Thanks. > > > Born from the ashes it may be, but Phoenix will die in the cold. > It's going into summer in the Martian Arctic; the mission lifetime is > about 150 days. Phoenix won't survive winter. > > I also notice news people describing the Phoenix as having > landed at Mars's "North Pole," even people on this List. If you were aliens > going to land on Earth, would you land on the dead center of Antarctica? > Why? > > > Phoenix is on the southern edge of the "Boreal Vastness" > (translating from the Latin name); it is above the Martian Arctic > Circle, barely (68.35 deg North). For a location comparison > by latitude, think of landing in the Northwest Territories of Canada. The > "Boreal Vastness" is a flat featureless low-lying > that covers about the upper third of Mars; many think it is an ancient sea > bed. > > Your criticisms might be to the point if we belonged to a > species and lived in a culture that made rational and intelligent long-term > plans to do the things that are truly essential and important to them. > > If you know of such a place, let me know. > > > I sincerely hope you can convince somebody to land a > multi-ton rompin' rover with nuclear eight-wheel drive, power take-off > drills on both ends, linear laboratory analysis machines with continuous > pass-through of Martian samples and 18 experiments online in each one > (let's have four of'em) and > a sample return rocket that sends 100 kg of Martian samples up to Martian > orbit to be returned to Earth. > > Let's have two, if you're in the mood... > > > > Sterling K. Webb > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Wed Jun 18 11:13:58 2008 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 18 Jun 2008 15:13:58 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] Murchison vs. other CM's Message-ID: Hello Jason, Mike, Doug, and List, Some interesting and helpful references from list member and Murchison specialist Greg Shanos: SHANOS G. (1998) Murchison - The Forgotten Meteorite (M!, Aug. 98, Vol. 4, No. 3, pp. 32-33). SHANOS G. (1999) Carbon in the Murchison CM2 Carbon- aceous chondrite (M!, Aug. 99, Vol. 5, No. 3, pp. 38-40). SHANOS G. (2002) Sweet and sour meteorites (Meteorite, Aug. 2002, Vol. 8, No. 3, pp.18-19). and see also: CRONIN J.R. et al. (1971) Amino acid analyses of the Murchison, Murray and Allende carbonaceous chondrites (Science 172, 1327-1329). CRONIN J.R. et al. (1990) Aliphatic hydrocarbons of the Murchison meteorite (GCA 54, 2859-2868). ENGEL M.H. et al. (1982) Distribution and enantiomeric composition of amino acids in the Murchison meteorite (Nature 296, 837-840). LAWLESS J.G. et al. (1979) Quantification of monocarboxylic acids in the Murchison meteorite (Nature 282, 396-398). PERING K.L. et al. Aromatic hydrocarbons in the Murchison meteorite (Science 173, 237-239). From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Wed Jun 18 11:47:57 2008 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 18 Jun 2008 15:47:57 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] Estherville Crystal Message-ID: "i got an estherville that has a crystal about 3/8" across w/ a pronounced, highly reflective, (if not perfect) clevage plane. what type of mineral might this be?" If it is greenish and translucent, my vague guess would be pyroxene (hypersthene) but it's hard to tell without photos and close-up pics. This crystal might also be olivine! If opaque it might be a chromite crystal. Bernd From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Wed Jun 18 11:57:41 2008 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 17:57:41 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] WG: NASA Phoenix Lander Bakes Sample, Arm Digs Deeper Message-ID: <00b801c8d15c$0a59c1b0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Hmm Sterling, assumed that I'm not so intelligent, I have a question, which is bothering me: aside from the achievements and recoveries such a mission like the Phoenix lander means, I wonder - well how shall I say - but given the $386,000,000 and not to mention, what for means a successful sample-return-mission would consume - I wonder why NASA is not interested in baking Martian soils and rocks from many different places on Mars in terrestrial ovens for let's say $30,000 or something around that sum, (Hey NASA has an a n n u a l budget of $17,000,000,000 All SNCs found so far would cost, let's say $40,000,000 to make all happy) and I wonder whether the American taxpayer would agree more to such an expense. Strange in my blear eyes is too, that ESA is sending out employees to far corners of the World, to collect terrestrial analogs to Martian rocks to analyse and research them, but on the other hand they have no reference collection of Martian meteorites to work on, although such a collection currently would cost them less, then the plane tickets for the guys sent to collect Martian look-a-likes. In my na?ve point of view, I was thinking, that it could be a fundamental and elemental building block of scientific exploration of Planet Mars to investigate that matter, those rocks from there, we already have here on Earth? (as told, maybe I'm to stupid.. but on the other hand, perhaps the quality of the training and schooling of those guys at NASA, IAXA, ESA had a few gaps, so that they simply don't know, that we already do have some Martian rocks here on Earth? At least I think it is problematical to propagate the scientific mandate of these organizations to explore Planet Mars and the necessity of those hefty expenses, but to neglect that simple and cost-efficient, but nevertheless very important domain of researching the Martian meteorites - it isn't plausible to public in no way, happily most of the taxpayers don't know, that there exist meteorites from Mars, hehe). See you all in Ensiheim! Martin -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Sterling K. Webb Gesendet: Mittwoch, 18. Juni 2008 08:52 An: Pete Shugar; Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com; mexicodoug at aim.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] NASA Phoenix Lander Bakes Sample,Arm Digs Deeper Hi, Pete, List, This mission was named Phoenix in recognition of the fact that like the mythical Phoenix, it rose from the ashes of the dead! Once upon a time, there were two Mars missions that died: the 2001 Mars Surveyor lander was cancelled in 2000, and the Mars Polar Lander was lost on Mars in 1999. Demonstrating the inscrutable wisdom that politicians, beaurocrats, and authorities often possess that we lowly groundlings lack, the 2001 Mars Surveyor Lander was canceled after it was already built and paid for. (Anybody remember the Superconducting Super Collider?) At any rate, the 2001 Mars Surveyor Lander had been kept in storage at Lockheed Martin clean room in Sunnyvale. And there were extra "stay-at-home" duplicates of some instruments for the Polar Lander, and there was a bit here and there, and there were projects without a vehicle or hope of getting another one... Upshot: for a lousy $386 million, which includes the launch and all tips for room service, You The Taxpayer get a whole new Mars Mission. Quit whining. For comparison, we spend $343 million each and every day in Iraq doing whatever it is that we're doing there. Actually, I lied. Phoenix needed an extra $31 million beyond the budget of $386 million and was almost cancelled over it. The altimeter was from the Mars Polar Lander (you know, the one that crashed). It seems that, hmm... a faulty altimeter may have been to blame for that. It's taken from the one used in F-16 fighter planes. Some software problems on the F-16 altimeter were fixed, but the altimeter for Phoenix did not get the software upgrade. They spent about six months fixing the gizmo, driving up costs. And, hey! It worked, didn't it? Additionally, they had to pay for searching for a boulder-free landing spot, using the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter which, yes, charges for its services, even to other missions, because every spot they picked had boulders. There's a helluva lot of boulders on Mars... The partnership developing the Phoenix mission includes: the University of Arizona, NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Lockheed Martin Space Systems in Denver and the Canadian Space Agency, which is providing weather instruments. Peter H. Smith of the University of Arizona, Lunar and Planetary Laboratory heads the Phoenix mission. Thanks. Born from the ashes it may be, but Phoenix will die in the cold. It's going into summer in the Martian Arctic; the mission lifetime is about 150 days. Phoenix won't survive winter. I also notice news people describing the Phoenix as having landed at Mars's "North Pole," even people on this List. If you were aliens going to land on Earth, would you land on the dead center of Antarctica? Why? Phoenix is on the southern edge of the "Boreal Vastness" (translating from the Latin name); it is above the Martian Arctic Circle, barely (68.35 deg North). For a location comparison by latitude, think of landing in the Northwest Territories of Canada. The "Boreal Vastness" is a flat featureless low-lying that covers about the upper third of Mars; many think it is an ancient sea bed. Your criticisms might be to the point if we belonged to a species and lived in a culture that made rational and intelligent long-term plans to do the things that are truly essential and important to them. If you know of such a place, let me know. I sincerely hope you can convince somebody to land a multi-ton rompin' rover with nuclear eight-wheel drive, power take-off drills on both ends, linear laboratory analysis machines with continuous pass-through of Martian samples and 18 experiments online in each one (let's have four of'em) and a sample return rocket that sends 100 kg of Martian samples up to Martian orbit to be returned to Earth. Let's have two, if you're in the mood... Sterling K. Webb --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete Shugar" To: ; Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 9:21 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NASA Phoenix Lander Bakes Sample,Arm Digs Deeper I agree that we have learned tons more than what we did know. What I am wondering is if the lander can move to new locations or will it be only at this one location. Otherwise we will learn a lot about a very small patch of Mars. I think the other 2 rovers will provide more science due to examining many places instead of just the one small patch of Mars that will checked. I agree it will be very a intensive in depth look at a small spot. It may sound as an aggressive criticism for your taste, but that is a truth. If the Lander could move to new locations and dump it's ovens for use in new experiments we would have generated a larger amount of science. Maybe it's just that I'm not as up on this probe as I am on the other two. Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 7:30 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NASA Phoenix Lander Bakes Sample,Arm Digs Deeper > "I guess that means only 8 experiments and then it becomes a high dollar > garbage can.." > > Pete, "only?" "high dollar garbage can?"?? That sounds a bit too > aggressive of a criticism for my taste in light of the historic > accomplishments in progress on the frigid Polar surface of Mars. > > Have you ever cleaned out an oven? Decontaminated it without having any > water or liquids? I guess NASA preferred not to wrap the baked goods in > aluminum baggies and not make the Mars under the lander a garbage heap of > disposable crap and contaminating solvents. I'm not critical of that. > > I don't what you are thinking, but 8 oven cycles sounds like 8 times > infinity more quality oven time than "we" had before. > > Best wishes, > Doug > PS Speaking about learning to clean out the oven, I recommend to you the > comedy movie, "A Day without a Mexican", and think Mars instead of > California :) If that is too testy, how 'bout "To Build a Fire" by Jack > London? > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Pete Shugar > To: Mike Bandli ; 'Ron Baalke' > ; 'Meteorite Mailing List' > > Sent: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 6:26 pm > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NASA Phoenix Lander Bakes Sample, Arm Digs > Deeper > > > I guess that means only 8 experiments and then it becomes a high dollar > garbage can.. Pete > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Bandli" > To: "'Pete Shugar'" ; "'Ron Baalke'" > ; "'Meteorite Mailing List'" > Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 3:20 PM > Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] NASA Phoenix Lander Bakes Sample,Arm Digs > Deeper >> Hi Pete, Unfortunately, all eight of the ovens cannot be emptied or >> re-used > for > other >> tests. I believe I remember hearing it had something to do with > saving >> weight on the craft. Best, Mike Bandli -----Original Message----- >> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com >> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of > Pete >> Shugar Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 12:40 PM To: Ron Baalke; Meteorite >> Mailing List Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NASA Phoenix Lander Bakes >> Sample,Arm > Digs >> Deeper My question is: If there are only 8 ovens on the Lander, what >> happens when they are all full? Is there a provision to dump the ovens >> and reuse them? Pete ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ron Baalke" > >> To: "Meteorite Mailing List" Sent: >> Tuesday, June 17, 2008 12:54 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA Phoenix >> Lander Bakes Sample, Arm Digs Deeper >>> >>> http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2008-111b NASA Phoenix >>> Lander Bakes Sample, Arm Digs Deeper Jet Propulsion Laboratory June 16, >>> 2008 TUCSON, Ariz. -- One of the ovens on NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander >>> continued baking its first sample of Martian soil over the weekend, >>> while the Robotic Arm dug deeper into the soil to learn more about > white >>> material first revealed on June 3. "The oven is working very well and >>> living up to our expectations," > said >>> Phoenix co-investigator Bill Boynton of the University of Arizona, >>> Tucson. Boynton leads the Thermal and Evolved-Gas Analyzer (TEGA), > or >>> oven instrument, for Phoenix. Phoenix has eight separate tiny ovens to >>> bake and sniff the soil and look for volatile ingredients, such as >>> water. This baking is > performed >>> at three different temperature ranges. On Sol 18 (June 12), the lander's >>> Robotic Arm dug deeper into the > two >>> trenches, informally called "Dodo" and "Goldilocks," where white >>> material was previously found. This created one large trench, now > called >>> "Dodo-Goldilocks." "We have continued to excavate in the Dodo-Goldilocks >>> trench to > expose >>> more of the light-toned material, and we will monitor the site," > said >>> Robotic Arm lead scientist Ray Arvidson of the University of > Washington, >>> St. Louis. "If the material is ice, it should change with time. > Frost >>> may form on it, or it could slowly sublimate." Sublimation is the >>> process where a solid changes directly into gas. The Dodo-Goldilocks >>> trench is 22 centimeters wide (8.7 inches) and > 35 >>> centimeters long (13.8 inches). The trench is seven to eight > centimeters >>> (2.7 to 3 inches) deep at its deepest. The deepest portion is > closest to >>> the lander. The white material is located only at the shallowest part of >>> the > trench, >>> farthest from the lander, indicating that it is not continuous >>> throughout the excavated site. The trench might be exposing a ledge, > or >>> only a portion of a slab, of the white material, according to > scientists. >>> >>> The Phoenix mission is led by Peter Smith with project management at > JPL >>> and development partnership at Lockheed Martin, located in Denver. >>> International contributions come from the Canadian Space Agency; the >>> University of Neuchatel, Switzerland; the universities of Copenhagen > and >>> Aarhus, Denmark; Max Planck Institute, Germany; and the Finnish >>> Meteorological Institute. For more about Phoenix, visit: >>> http://www.nasa.gov/phoenix and http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>> >>> Media contacts: Guy Webster 818-354-6278 Jet Propulsion Laboratory, >>> Pasadena, Calif. guy.webster at jpl.nasa.gov Dwayne Brown 202-358-1726 NASA >>> Headquarters, Washington dwayne.c.brown at nasa.gov Sara Hammond >>> 520-626-1974 University of Arizona, Tucson shammond at lpl.arizona.edu >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From pshugar at clearwire.net Tue Jun 17 12:54:31 2008 From: pshugar at clearwire.net (Pete Shugar) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 11:54:31 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA Phoenix Lander Bakes Sample, Arm Digs Deeper References: <200806172021.m5HKL1mk030142@mail154c8.megamailservers.com><000801c8d008$5e64a8b0$0201a8c0@laptop><8CA9EF193BDB9C7-98C-168A@WEBMAIL-MB19.sysops.aol.com> <000501c8d020$cadfbad0$0201a8c0@laptop> <031f01c8d10f$c4b43c40$8d5ae146@ATARIENGINE> <51384.71.226.60.25.1213785420.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> Message-ID: <000601c8d09a$d21176c0$0201a8c0@laptop> (Quote) Born from the ashes it may be, but Phoenix will die in the cold. > It's going into summer in the Martian Arctic; the mission lifetime is > about 150 days. Phoenix won't survive winter.(end quote) When all is said and done, it's still an expensive trash can. I just hope that enough is learned to make it worth the trip. Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Sterling K. Webb" Cc: "Pete Shugar" ; ; Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 5:37 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NASA Phoenix Lander Bakes Sample, Arm Digs Deeper > Hello Sterling: > > I think that it was a software failure that doomed Mars Polar Lander: > > When the spacecraft sensed that the vehicle had landed, then the engines > were to cut off. This was done by noting that the landing legs flexed > (sprung back as a shock absorber) as the ship touched down. > > However, as it turned out, when the legs were deployed, having springs, > guess what, they sprung back a little. The engines sensed this as "we are > on the ground" and not "oh, the legs just deployed," and so the engines > turned off at 40 meters altitude, making the landing not so soft. > > Larry > > On Tue, June 17, 2008 11:51 pm, Sterling K. Webb wrote: >> Hi, Pete, List, >> >> >> This mission was named Phoenix in recognition >> of the fact that like the mythical Phoenix, it rose from the ashes of the >> dead! Once upon a time, there were two Mars missions that died: the 2001 >> Mars Surveyor >> lander was cancelled in 2000, and the Mars Polar Lander was lost on Mars >> in >> 1999. >> >> >> Demonstrating the inscrutable wisdom that politicians, >> beaurocrats, and authorities often possess that we lowly groundlings >> lack, >> the 2001 Mars Surveyor Lander was canceled after it was already built and >> paid for. (Anybody remember the Superconducting Super Collider?) >> >> At any rate, the 2001 Mars Surveyor Lander had been >> kept in storage at Lockheed Martin clean room in Sunnyvale. And there >> were >> extra "stay-at-home" duplicates of some instruments for the Polar Lander, >> and there was a bit here and there, and there were projects without a >> vehicle or hope of getting another one... >> >> Upshot: for a lousy $386 million, which includes the launch >> and all tips for room service, You The Taxpayer get a whole new Mars >> Mission. Quit whining. For comparison, we spend >> $343 million each and every day in Iraq doing whatever it is >> that we're doing there. >> >> Actually, I lied. Phoenix needed an extra $31 million beyond >> the budget of $386 million and was almost cancelled over it. The >> altimeter >> was from the Mars Polar Lander (you know, the one that crashed). It seems >> that, hmm... a faulty altimeter may have been to blame for that. >> >> It's taken from the one used in F-16 fighter planes. Some >> software problems on the F-16 altimeter were fixed, but the altimeter for >> Phoenix did not get the software upgrade. They >> spent about six months fixing the gizmo, driving up costs. And, hey! It >> worked, didn't it? >> >> Additionally, they had to pay for searching for a boulder-free >> landing spot, using the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter which, yes, charges >> for >> its services, even to other missions, because every spot they picked had >> boulders. There's a helluva lot of boulders on Mars... >> >> The partnership developing the Phoenix mission >> includes: the University of Arizona, NASA's Jet Propulsion >> Laboratory, Lockheed Martin Space Systems in Denver and >> the Canadian Space Agency, which is providing weather instruments. Peter >> H. >> Smith of the University of Arizona, Lunar >> and Planetary Laboratory heads the Phoenix mission. >> >> Thanks. >> >> >> Born from the ashes it may be, but Phoenix will die in the cold. >> It's going into summer in the Martian Arctic; the mission lifetime is >> about 150 days. Phoenix won't survive winter. >> >> I also notice news people describing the Phoenix as having >> landed at Mars's "North Pole," even people on this List. If you were >> aliens >> going to land on Earth, would you land on the dead center of Antarctica? >> Why? >> >> >> Phoenix is on the southern edge of the "Boreal Vastness" >> (translating from the Latin name); it is above the Martian Arctic >> Circle, barely (68.35 deg North). For a location comparison >> by latitude, think of landing in the Northwest Territories of Canada. The >> "Boreal Vastness" is a flat featureless low-lying >> that covers about the upper third of Mars; many think it is an ancient >> sea >> bed. >> >> Your criticisms might be to the point if we belonged to a >> species and lived in a culture that made rational and intelligent >> long-term >> plans to do the things that are truly essential and important to them. >> >> If you know of such a place, let me know. >> >> >> I sincerely hope you can convince somebody to land a >> multi-ton rompin' rover with nuclear eight-wheel drive, power take-off >> drills on both ends, linear laboratory analysis machines with continuous >> pass-through of Martian samples and 18 experiments online in each one >> (let's have four of'em) and >> a sample return rocket that sends 100 kg of Martian samples up to Martian >> orbit to be returned to Earth. >> >> Let's have two, if you're in the mood... >> >> >> >> Sterling K. Webb >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > From daistiho at hotmail.com Wed Jun 18 13:02:00 2008 From: daistiho at hotmail.com (tracy latimer) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 17:02:00 +0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] Estherville Crystal In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: A couple of years ago there was a MPOTD of an Estherville slice with one end so full of olivine crystals it looked more like a rogue pallasite. Since I love pallasites, I sniffed around and got my own specimen from Impactica. Nowhere near as olivine rich, but it DOES have one translucent, nicely framed olivine crystal about 1/4" in diameter, so olivine crystals in Estherville are not unheard of. Just my 2g, Tracy Latimer > To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de > Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 15:47:57 +0000 > Subject: [meteorite-list] Estherville Crystal > > "i got an estherville that has a crystal about 3/8" across w/ a pronounced, highly > reflective, (if not perfect) clevage plane. what type of mineral might this be?" > > If it is greenish and translucent, my vague guess would be pyroxene > (hypersthene) but it's hard to tell without photos and close-up pics. > > This crystal might also be olivine! > > If opaque it might be a chromite crystal. > > > Bernd > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _________________________________________________________________ Need to know now? Get instant answers with Windows Live Messenger. http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/connect_your_way.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_messenger_062008 From lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu Wed Jun 18 14:03:40 2008 From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu (lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 11:03:40 -0700 (MST) Subject: [meteorite-list] WG: NASA Phoenix Lander Bakes Sample, Arm Digs Deeper In-Reply-To: <00b801c8d15c$0a59c1b0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> References: <00b801c8d15c$0a59c1b0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: <51867.71.226.60.25.1213812220.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> Hello Martin: But there are several reasons for going there: 1. You actually know where the sample came from (not true for the meteorite). 2. To get a meteorite takes a little energy, so "stuff happens" to a Mars rock that does not happen to a pristine soil sample on Mars. 3. If you are looking for water (or water ice or carbon dioxide ice) as part of an initial search for life on Mars, again, you need to know where your sample has come from and that it has not been bashed by an impact, been in space for a few million years, gone through Earth's atmosphere, and then sat on Earth for some unknown length of time. Ideally, you want to get samples from a number of places and bring them back to Earth, but that gets a little more expensive. And you are up against ICAMSR (International Committee against Mars Sample Return) (those Mars bugs are going to get you). For your information, the Mars rovers cost just over $800 million (build a second for about half the cost of one). The "next generation" Mars lander, Mars Science Laboratory, is running $1.2 billion (20% over budget) and behind schedule. This is problem since nothing can be done to get Mars to wait for the Lab to get launched. If it cannot be launched on time, there is a delay of something like 18 months for the next opportunity. In this respect, Phoenix is cheap. Larry On Wed, June 18, 2008 8:57 am, Martin Altmann wrote: > > Hmm Sterling, > > > assumed that I'm not so intelligent, I have a question, which is > bothering me: aside from the achievements and recoveries such a mission > like the Phoenix lander means, > I wonder - well how shall I say - but given the $386,000,000 and not to > mention, what for means a successful sample-return-mission would consume > - > I wonder why NASA is not interested in baking Martian soils and rocks from > many different places on Mars in terrestrial ovens for let's say $30,000 > or something around that sum, (Hey NASA has an a n n u a l budget of > $17,000,000,000 > All SNCs found so far would cost, let's say > $40,000,000 > to make all happy) and I wonder whether the American taxpayer would agree > more to such an expense. > > Strange in my blear eyes is too, that ESA is sending out employees to far > corners of the World, to collect terrestrial analogs to Martian rocks to > analyse and research them, but on the other hand they have no reference > collection of Martian meteorites to work on, although such a collection > currently would cost them less, then the plane tickets for the guys sent > to collect Martian look-a-likes. > > In my na?ve point of view, I was thinking, that it could be a fundamental > and elemental building block of scientific exploration of Planet Mars to > investigate that matter, those rocks from there, we already have here on > Earth? > (as told, maybe I'm to stupid.. but on the other hand, perhaps the quality > of the training and schooling of those guys at NASA, IAXA, ESA had a few > gaps, so that they simply don't know, that we already do have some > Martian > rocks here on Earth? At least I think it is problematical to propagate the > scientific mandate of these organizations to explore Planet Mars and the > necessity of those hefty expenses, but to neglect that simple and > cost-efficient, but nevertheless very important domain of researching the > Martian meteorites - it isn't plausible to public in no way, happily > most of the taxpayers don't know, that there exist meteorites from Mars, > hehe). > > See you all in Ensiheim! > Martin > > > > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von > Sterling > K. Webb > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 18. Juni 2008 08:52 > An: Pete Shugar; Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com; mexicodoug at aim.com > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] NASA Phoenix Lander Bakes Sample,Arm Digs > Deeper > > > Hi, Pete, List, > > > This mission was named Phoenix in recognition > of the fact that like the mythical Phoenix, it rose from the ashes of the > dead! Once upon a time, there were two Mars missions that died: the 2001 > Mars Surveyor > lander was cancelled in 2000, and the Mars Polar Lander was lost on Mars in > 1999. > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Wed Jun 18 14:47:26 2008 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 20:47:26 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] WG: NASA Phoenix Lander Bakes Sample, Arm Digs Deeper In-Reply-To: <51867.71.226.60.25.1213812220.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> References: <00b801c8d15c$0a59c1b0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> <51867.71.226.60.25.1213812220.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> Message-ID: <00ec01c8d173$c155d090$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Hi Larry, without any doubt! I didn't tell, that we shouldn't fly to Mars or that we shouldn't send space probes there, there was no "instead of". In fact I'm a great fan of planetary missions, and not least the Viking missions had a certain contribution, that I have now my own Mars :-) I'm only always baffled, that the space agencies aren't interested in SNCs at all! I mean, you see, the methods and devices to analyze rocks in situ on a different planet are limited. It is expensive to send robots there and the risk of failure is high. If I'm interested in exploring Mars, why should I then do the research without the samples from Mars I have already here on Earth, where I have no risks to take, which are thousands and thousands times cheaper, then the sniff a rover can take of a rock on the surface of Mars, and - which is most important -, whereon I can apply my whole arsenal of techniques and methods in my lab? Remember back, why NASA built up before Apollo a reference collection of Moon-like rocks, why Shoemaker trained the astronauts in th Ries Crater to pick up the right stuff? See. And there they had the problem, that NO lunar rock was known on Earth at that time. Now to have all those Mars missions, but to ignore the SNC meteorites, Well Larry, to me the space agencies seem to be like, like... let's say marine biologists, who tell yaaah let's built one fancy diving robot after the other, we like marine organisms, fishes and stuff! But water? Why should be water interesting for us, what has water to do with our subcject??? Well, and if I read, that ESA spends funds in collecting Earth-rocks, which are similar to Mars rocks, and is studying them in their labs... Larry, what would be the outcome, if there would be a poll: Hey German taxpayer: ESA wants to learn about Mars rocks, shall they spend the 3$, each of you is paying to ESA each year, for sending people around the globe, to collect earthly stones to analyse them, or shall they rather buy for your money real Mars rocks, which would cost the same? Hmmmmmmmmm....... Martin Doe -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu Gesendet: Mittwoch, 18. Juni 2008 20:04 An: Martin Altmann Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] WG: NASA Phoenix Lander Bakes Sample, Arm Digs Deeper Hello Martin: But there are several reasons for going there: 1. You actually know where the sample came from (not true for the meteorite). 2. To get a meteorite takes a little energy, so "stuff happens" to a Mars rock that does not happen to a pristine soil sample on Mars. 3. If you are looking for water (or water ice or carbon dioxide ice) as part of an initial search for life on Mars, again, you need to know where your sample has come from and that it has not been bashed by an impact, been in space for a few million years, gone through Earth's atmosphere, and then sat on Earth for some unknown length of time. Ideally, you want to get samples from a number of places and bring them back to Earth, but that gets a little more expensive. And you are up against ICAMSR (International Committee against Mars Sample Return) (those Mars bugs are going to get you). For your information, the Mars rovers cost just over $800 million (build a second for about half the cost of one). The "next generation" Mars lander, Mars Science Laboratory, is running $1.2 billion (20% over budget) and behind schedule. This is problem since nothing can be done to get Mars to wait for the Lab to get launched. If it cannot be launched on time, there is a delay of something like 18 months for the next opportunity. In this respect, Phoenix is cheap. Larry On Wed, June 18, 2008 8:57 am, Martin Altmann wrote: > > Hmm Sterling, > > > assumed that I'm not so intelligent, I have a question, which is > bothering me: aside from the achievements and recoveries such a mission > like the Phoenix lander means, > I wonder - well how shall I say - but given the $386,000,000 and not to > mention, what for means a successful sample-return-mission would consume > - > I wonder why NASA is not interested in baking Martian soils and rocks from > many different places on Mars in terrestrial ovens for let's say $30,000 > or something around that sum, (Hey NASA has an a n n u a l budget of > $17,000,000,000 > All SNCs found so far would cost, let's say > $40,000,000 > to make all happy) and I wonder whether the American taxpayer would agree > more to such an expense. > > Strange in my blear eyes is too, that ESA is sending out employees to far > corners of the World, to collect terrestrial analogs to Martian rocks to > analyse and research them, but on the other hand they have no reference > collection of Martian meteorites to work on, although such a collection > currently would cost them less, then the plane tickets for the guys sent > to collect Martian look-a-likes. > > In my na?ve point of view, I was thinking, that it could be a fundamental > and elemental building block of scientific exploration of Planet Mars to > investigate that matter, those rocks from there, we already have here on > Earth? > (as told, maybe I'm to stupid.. but on the other hand, perhaps the quality > of the training and schooling of those guys at NASA, IAXA, ESA had a few > gaps, so that they simply don't know, that we already do have some > Martian > rocks here on Earth? At least I think it is problematical to propagate the > scientific mandate of these organizations to explore Planet Mars and the > necessity of those hefty expenses, but to neglect that simple and > cost-efficient, but nevertheless very important domain of researching the > Martian meteorites - it isn't plausible to public in no way, happily > most of the taxpayers don't know, that there exist meteorites from Mars, > hehe). > > See you all in Ensiheim! > Martin > > > > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von > Sterling > K. Webb > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 18. Juni 2008 08:52 > An: Pete Shugar; Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com; mexicodoug at aim.com > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] NASA Phoenix Lander Bakes Sample,Arm Digs > Deeper > > > Hi, Pete, List, > > > This mission was named Phoenix in recognition > of the fact that like the mythical Phoenix, it rose from the ashes of the > dead! Once upon a time, there were two Mars missions that died: the 2001 > Mars Surveyor > lander was cancelled in 2000, and the Mars Polar Lander was lost on Mars in > 1999. > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Wed Jun 18 16:16:42 2008 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 18 Jun 2008 20:16:42 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] Estherville Crystal Message-ID: Hi Harlan, Tracy and List, Thanks for the pics! Like Tracy wrote "...an Estherville slice with one end so full of olivine crystals...", this looks very much like a cluster of olivine crystals embedded into the mesosiderite matrix! Cheers, Bernd From mexicodoug at aim.com Wed Jun 18 16:23:30 2008 From: mexicodoug at aim.com (mexicodoug at aim.com) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 16:23:30 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] WG: NASA Phoenix Lander Bakes Sample, Arm Digs Deeper In-Reply-To: <00ec01c8d173$c155d090$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> References: <00b801c8d15c$0a59c1b0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> <51867.71.226.60.25.1213812220.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> <00ec01c8d173$c155d090$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: <8CA9F984EB4E7CA-17D8-B83@WEBMAIL-DC16.sysops.aol.com> "to me the space agencies seem to be like, like... let's say marine biologists, who tell yaaah let's built one fancy diving robot after the other, we like marine organisms, fishes and stuff! But water? Why should be water interesting for us, what has water to do with our subcject???" Hi Martin, I would modify that example for the Marine Biologist parody, I would say you are asking much of a few distorted 1.3 billion year old catfish fossils from the same brood, and a single 4 billion year old distorted fossil shark's tooth. And then from that, hoping to extrapolate how the entire oceanic and riparian ecosystems evolved to be what they are today on Earth. A geologist (or Areologist) is usually interested in studying the context of his find. Like you, I am a strong supporter of the study of SNC's and of space missions. Happily, a Google of the terms: Mars meteorite NASA gave aboout 144,000 hits and the three terms Mars Meteorite ESA gave about 31,000 hits. For comparison a Google of the two terms: Mars meteorite gave only 193,000 hits. It would seem to me that the space agencies are not so mute on Mars meteorites as you would say! Unless of course, those are all Martinoid complaints ... Like a fish in a fishbowl, you are, not able to perceive it is floating in water, water everywhere ... Science has thankfully analyzed the heck out of the Mars meteorites we have and there are many experts in our midst who have done that who owe a portion of their livelyhood to NASA grants. If any commercial hatcheries can propose how to prepare some delicious catfish in a way not already tried, please propose it to researchers (many of whom have financial ties to NASA or the ESA) and I am certain someone will buy up all the catfish needed to learn anything new. Meanwhile, you gotta be pretty amazed at the wonderful science going on as the geological context of Mars is unwrapped piece by piece, in situ and in real time. That doesn't mean we all can't stand to enjoy a bit more catfish from time to time, hopefully to be washed down with a healthy portion of what is discovered by the thirst for more knowledge. And between me and you and the wall, if given the opportunity to control a spacecraft from another planet to explore its geological structure, vs. buy the same delicious catfish and shark's tooth from reputable local meteorite battered fish & chips joint, and hope to discover a modern Martian cephalopod complete in its whole life cycle and environment falling out of the Mass Spec machine as a result, well, I'd have my activity preference ... :) Best wishes, Doug -----Original Message----- From: Martin Altmann To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 1:47 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] WG: NASA Phoenix Lander Bakes Sample, Arm Digs Deeper Hi Larry, without any doubt! I didn't tell, that we shouldn't fly to Mars or that we shouldn't send space probes there, there was no "instead of". In fact I'm a great fan of planetary missions, and not least the Viking missions had a certain contribution, that I have now my own Mars :-) I'm only always baffled, that the space agencies aren't interested in SNCs at all! I mean, you see, the methods and devices to analyze rocks in situ on a different planet are limited. It is expensive to send robots there and the risk of failure is high. If I'm interested in exploring Mars, why should I then do the research without the samples from Mars I have already here on Earth, where I have no risks to take, which are thousands and thousands times cheaper, then the sniff a rover can take of a rock on the surface of Mars, and - which is most important -, whereon I can apply my whole arsenal of techniques and methods in my lab? Remember back, why NASA built up before Apollo a reference collection of Moon-like rocks, why Shoemaker trained the astronauts in th Ries Crater to pick up the right stuff? See. And there they had the problem, that NO lunar rock was known on Earth at that time. Now to have all those Mars missions, but to ignore the SNC meteorites, Well Larry, to me the space agencies seem to be like, like... let's say marine biologists, who tell yaaah let's built one fancy diving robot after the other, we like marine organisms, fishes and stuff! But water? Why should be water interesting for us, what has water to do with our subcject??? Well, and if I read, that ESA spends funds in collecting Earth-rocks, which are similar to Mars rocks, and is studying them in their labs... Larry, what would be the outcome, if there would be a poll: Hey German taxpayer: ESA wants to learn about Mars rocks, shall they spend the 3$, each of you is paying to ESA each year, for sending people around the globe, to collect earthly stones to analyse them, or shall they rather buy for your money real Mars rocks, which would cost the same? Hmmmmmmmmm....... Martin Doe -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu Gesendet: Mittwoch, 18. Juni 2008 20:04 An: Martin Altmann Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] WG: NASA Phoenix Lander Bakes Sample, Arm Digs Deeper Hello Martin: But there are several reasons for going there: 1. You actually know where the sample came from (not true for the meteorite). 2. To get a meteorite takes a little energy, so "stuff happens" to a Mars rock that does not happen to a pristine soil sample on Mars. 3. If you are looking for water (or water ice or carbon dioxide ice) as part of an initial search for life on Mars, again, you need to know where your sample has come from and that it has not been bashed by an impact, been in space for a few million years, gone through Earth's atmosphere, and then sat on Earth for some unknown length of time. Ideally, you want to get samples from a number of places and bring them back to Earth, but that gets a little more expensive. And you are up against ICAMSR (International Committee against Mars Sample Return) (those Mars bugs are going to get you). For your information, the Mars rovers cost just over $800 million (build a second for about half the cost of one). The "next generation" Mars lander, Mars Science Laboratory, is running $1.2 billion (20% over budget) and behind schedule. This is problem since nothing can be done to get Mars to wait for the Lab to get launched. If it cannot be launched on time, there is a delay of something like 18 months for the next opportunity. In this respect, Phoenix is cheap. Larry On Wed, June 18, 2008 8:57 am, Martin Altmann wrote: > > Hmm Sterling, > > > assumed that I'm not so intelligent, I have a question, which is > bothering me: aside from the achievements and recoveries such a mission > like the Phoenix lander means, > I wonder - well how shall I say - but given the $386,000,000 and not to > mention, what for means a successful sample-return-mission would consume > - > I wonder why NASA is not interested in baking Martian soils and rocks from > many different places on Mars in terrestrial ovens for let's say $30,000 > or something around that sum, (Hey NASA has an a n n u a l budget of > $17,000,000,000 > All SNCs found so far would cost, let's say > $40,000,000 > to make all happy) and I wonder whether the American taxpayer would agree > more to such an expense. > > Strange in my blear eyes is too, that ESA is sending out employees to far > corners of the World, to collect terrestrial analogs to Martian rocks to > analyse and research them, but on the other hand they have no reference > collection of Martian meteorites to work on, although such a collection > currently would cost them less, then the plane tickets for the guys sent > to collect Martian look-a-likes. > > In my na?ve point of view, I was thinking, that it could be a fundamental > and elemental building block of scientific exploration of Planet Mars to > investigate that matter, those rocks from there, we already have here on > Earth? > (as told, maybe I'm to stupid.. but on the other hand, perhaps the quality > of the training and schooling of those guys at NASA, IAXA, ESA had a few > gaps, so that they simply don't know, that we already do have some > Martian > rocks here on Earth? At least I think it is problematical to propagate the > scientific mandate of these organizations to explore Planet Mars and the > necessity of those hefty expenses, but to neglect that simple and > cost-efficient, but nevertheless very important domain of researching the > Martian meteorites - it isn't plausible to public in no way, happily > most of the taxpayers don't know, that there exist meteorites from Mars, > hehe). > > See you all in Ensiheim! > Martin > > > > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von > Sterling > K. Webb > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 18. Juni 2008 08:52 > An: Pete Shugar; Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com; mexicodoug at aim.com > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] NASA Phoenix Lander Bakes Sample,Arm Digs > Deeper > > > Hi, Pete, List, > > > This mission was named Phoenix in recognition > of the fact that like the mythical Phoenix, it rose from the ashes of the > dead! Once upon a time, there were two Mars missions that died: the 2001 > Mars Surveyor > lander was cancelled in 2000, and the Mars Polar Lander was lost on Mars in > 1999. > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Wed Jun 18 16:48:53 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 13:48:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Phoenix Makes First Trench in Science Preserve Message-ID: <200806182048.NAA00753@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/phoenix/release.php?ArticleID=1749 Phoenix Makes First Trench in Science Preserve Jet Propulsion Laboratory June 17, 2008 NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander began digging in an area called "Wonderland" early Tuesday, taking its first scoop of soil from a polygonal surface feature within the "national park" region that mission scientists have been preserving for science. The lander's Robotic Arm created the new test trench called "Snow White" on June 17, the 22nd Martian day, or sol, after the Phoenix spacecraft landed on May 25. Newly planned science activities will resume no earlier than Sol 24 as engineers look into how the spacecraft is handling larger than expected amounts of data. During Tuesday's dig, the arm didn't reach the hard white material, possibly ice, that Phoenix exposed previously in the first trench it dug into the Martian soil. That's just what scientists both expected and wanted. The Snow White trench is near the center of a relatively flat hummock, or polygon, named "Cheshire Cat," where scientists predict there will be more soil layers or thicker soil above possible white material. The Snow White trench is about two centimeters deep (about three-quarters of an inch) and 30 centimeters (about a foot) long. The Phoenix team plans at least one more day of digging deeper into the Snow White trench. They will study soil structure in the Snow White trench to decide at what depths they will collect samples from a future trench planned for the center of the polygon. Meanwhile, the Thermal and Evolved-Gas Analyzer (TEGA) instrument continues its ongoing experiment in the first of its eight ovens. TEGA has eight separate tiny ovens to bake and sniff the soil to look for volatile ingredients, such as water. The baking is performed at three different temperature ranges. The Phoenix mission is led by Peter Smith of the University of Arizona with project management at JPL and development partnership at Lockheed Martin, located in Denver. International contributions come from the Canadian Space Agency; the University of Neuchatel, Switzerland; the universities of Copenhagen and Aarhus, Denmark; Max Planck Institute, Germany; and the Finnish Meteorological Institute. For more about Phoenix, visit: http://www.nasa.gov/phoenix and http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu. Media contacts: Guy Webster 818-354-6278 Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. guy.webster at jpl.nasa.gov Dwayne Brown 202-358-1726 NASA Headquarters, Washington dwayne.c.brown at nasa.gov Sara Hammond 520-626-1974 University of Arizona, Tucson shammond at lpl.arizona.edu From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Wed Jun 18 16:55:14 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 13:55:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars Exploration Rover Update - June 4-10, 2008 Message-ID: <200806182055.NAA03447@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/mission/status.html#opportunity OPPORTUNITY UPDATE: Bustin' Loose! - sol 1551-1557, Jun 04-10, 2008: Opportunity finally escaped the Martian sand and backed up onto solid rock inside "Victoria Crater." Driving backward on Martian day, or sol, 1557 (June 10, 2008), the rover successfully moved the last of its six wheels up over a rocky ledge. The successful maneuver freed Opportunity to follow another route that will bring the rover closer to the cliff known as "Cape Verde." From there, the rover will collect high-resolution, panoramic images of rock layers in the promontory. Also this week, the rover engineering team had the honor of hosting Houston-area Congressman and Mars exploration enthusiast John Culberson. The congressman participated in the planning of sols 1557 and 1558 (June 10-11, 2008). Culberson even helped design a science observation of the cobble informally named "Barnes" in honor of Virgil E. Barnes, former emeritus professor of geological sciences at The University of Texas at Austin. Sol-by-sol summary: In addition to receiving morning instructions directly from Earth via the rover's high-gain antenna and measuring atmospheric dust with the panoramic camera, Opportunity completed the following activities: Sol 1551 (June 4, 2008): Opportunity acquired a 5-by-1 mosaic of images for a shadow test to determine how well imaging of Cape Verde can proceed in shadowed conditions. Sol 1552: In the morning, Opportunity took spot images of the sky for calibration purposes and surveyed the horizon with the panoramic camera. After driving backward, the rover took images of cleat marks made with its wheels using the hazard-avoidance cameras. Opportunity took post-drive images of the rover mast and a 3-by-1 mosaic of images with the navigation camera. After relaying data to the Odyssey orbiter for transmission to Earth, Opportunity measured argon gas in the Martian atmosphere with the alpha-particle X-ray spectrometer. Sol 1553: Opportunity completed a morning survey of the horizon and took spot images of the sky with the panoramic camera. The rover acquired a 5-by-1 mosaic of images for the shadow test and surveyed the sky at high Sun with the panoramic camera. Sol 1554: In the morning, Opportunity acquired a six-frame, time-lapse movie of potential clouds passing overhead with the navigation camera. The rover acquired another 5-by-1 mosaic of shadow-test images with the panoramic camera. Opportunity then acquired full-color images, using all 13 filters of the panoramic camera, of a cobble dubbed "Agassiz." The rover completed a sky survey at high Sun with the panoramic camera and, after sending data to Odyssey, measured atmospheric argon with the alpha-particle X-ray spectrometer. Sol 1555: Opportunity surveyed the horizon and took spot images of the sky with the panoramic camera. The rover acquired a six-frame, time-lapse movie in search of clouds with the navigation camera. After communicating with Odyssey, Opportunity measured atmospheric argon with the alpha-particle X-ray spectrometer. Sol 1556: In the morning, Opportunity took thumbnail images of the sky with the panoramic camera. After communicating with Odyssey, the rover measured atmospheric argon with the alpha-particle X-ray spectrometer. Sol 1557 (June 10, 2008): In the morning, Opportunity acquired a six-frame, time-lapse movie in search of clouds with the navigation camera and surveyed surrounding rock clasts with the panoramic camera. The rover acquired full-color images, using all 13 filters of the panoramic camera, of Barnes. Opportunity then drove backward and acquired post-drive images of surrounding terrain and of the rover mast with the navigation camera as well as images of cleat imprints made by the rover's wheels with the hazard-avoidance cameras. After sending data to Odyssey, Opportunity measured atmospheric argon. Plans for the following morning called for the rover to monitor dust on the rover mast and take another six-frame movie of potential clouds passing overhead. Odometry: As of sol 1557 (June 10, 2008), Opportunity's total odometry was 11,691.84 meters (7.26 miles). From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Wed Jun 18 17:13:28 2008 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 16:13:28 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA Phoenix Lander Bakes Sample, Arm Digs Deeper References: <200806172021.m5HKL1mk030142@mail154c8.megamailservers.com><000801c8d008$5e64a8b0$0201a8c0@laptop><8CA9EF193BDB9C7-98C-168A@WEBMAIL-MB19.sysops.aol.com> <000501c8d020$cadfbad0$0201a8c0@laptop> <031f01c8d10f$c4b43c40$8d5ae146@ATARIENGINE> <51384.71.226.60.25.1213785420.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> Message-ID: <035501c8d188$27fbf400$8d5ae146@ATARIENGINE> Hi, Larry, List, I shouldn't have implied a specific cause was known, because it isn't, but the altimeter (whose software was apparently faulty) has been suggested as a possible cause, but the "boing effect" is good. I don't even know if the software in the two cases is actually the same software in integration. I only meant to point out the extra $31 million was a good investment, considering the outcome. Sterling K. Webb ----------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Sterling K. Webb" Cc: "Pete Shugar" ; ; Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 5:37 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NASA Phoenix Lander Bakes Sample, Arm Digs Deeper Hello Sterling: I think that it was a software failure that doomed Mars Polar Lander: When the spacecraft sensed that the vehicle had landed, then the engines were to cut off. This was done by noting that the landing legs flexed (sprung back as a shock absorber) as the ship touched down. However, as it turned out, when the legs were deployed, having springs, guess what, they sprung back a little. The engines sensed this as "we are on the ground" and not "oh, the legs just deployed," and so the engines turned off at 40 meters altitude, making the landing not so soft. Larry On Tue, June 17, 2008 11:51 pm, Sterling K. Webb wrote: > Hi, Pete, List, > > > This mission was named Phoenix in recognition > of the fact that like the mythical Phoenix, it rose from the ashes of the > dead! Once upon a time, there were two Mars missions that died: the 2001 > Mars Surveyor > lander was cancelled in 2000, and the Mars Polar Lander was lost on Mars > in > 1999. > > > Demonstrating the inscrutable wisdom that politicians, > beaurocrats, and authorities often possess that we lowly groundlings lack, > the 2001 Mars Surveyor Lander was canceled after it was already built and > paid for. (Anybody remember the Superconducting Super Collider?) > > At any rate, the 2001 Mars Surveyor Lander had been > kept in storage at Lockheed Martin clean room in Sunnyvale. And there were > extra "stay-at-home" duplicates of some instruments for the Polar Lander, > and there was a bit here and there, and there were projects without a > vehicle or hope of getting another one... > > Upshot: for a lousy $386 million, which includes the launch > and all tips for room service, You The Taxpayer get a whole new Mars > Mission. Quit whining. For comparison, we spend > $343 million each and every day in Iraq doing whatever it is > that we're doing there. > > Actually, I lied. Phoenix needed an extra $31 million beyond > the budget of $386 million and was almost cancelled over it. The altimeter > was from the Mars Polar Lander (you know, the one that crashed). It seems > that, hmm... a faulty altimeter may have been to blame for that. > > It's taken from the one used in F-16 fighter planes. Some > software problems on the F-16 altimeter were fixed, but the altimeter for > Phoenix did not get the software upgrade. They > spent about six months fixing the gizmo, driving up costs. And, hey! It > worked, didn't it? > > Additionally, they had to pay for searching for a boulder-free > landing spot, using the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter which, yes, charges > for > its services, even to other missions, because every spot they picked had > boulders. There's a helluva lot of boulders on Mars... > > The partnership developing the Phoenix mission > includes: the University of Arizona, NASA's Jet Propulsion > Laboratory, Lockheed Martin Space Systems in Denver and > the Canadian Space Agency, which is providing weather instruments. Peter > H. > Smith of the University of Arizona, Lunar > and Planetary Laboratory heads the Phoenix mission. > > Thanks. > > > Born from the ashes it may be, but Phoenix will die in the cold. > It's going into summer in the Martian Arctic; the mission lifetime is > about 150 days. Phoenix won't survive winter. > > I also notice news people describing the Phoenix as having > landed at Mars's "North Pole," even people on this List. If you were > aliens > going to land on Earth, would you land on the dead center of Antarctica? > Why? > > > Phoenix is on the southern edge of the "Boreal Vastness" > (translating from the Latin name); it is above the Martian Arctic > Circle, barely (68.35 deg North). For a location comparison > by latitude, think of landing in the Northwest Territories of Canada. The > "Boreal Vastness" is a flat featureless low-lying > that covers about the upper third of Mars; many think it is an ancient sea > bed. > > Your criticisms might be to the point if we belonged to a > species and lived in a culture that made rational and intelligent > long-term > plans to do the things that are truly essential and important to them. > > If you know of such a place, let me know. > > > I sincerely hope you can convince somebody to land a > multi-ton rompin' rover with nuclear eight-wheel drive, power take-off > drills on both ends, linear laboratory analysis machines with continuous > pass-through of Martian samples and 18 experiments online in each one > (let's have four of'em) and > a sample return rocket that sends 100 kg of Martian samples up to Martian > orbit to be returned to Earth. > > Let's have two, if you're in the mood... > > > > Sterling K. Webb > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > From lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu Wed Jun 18 17:34:13 2008 From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu (lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 14:34:13 -0700 (MST) Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA Phoenix Lander Bakes Sample, Arm Digs Deeper In-Reply-To: <035501c8d188$27fbf400$8d5ae146@ATARIENGINE> References: <200806172021.m5HKL1mk030142@mail154c8.megamailservers.com><000801c8d008$5e64a8b0$0201a8c0@laptop><8CA9EF193BDB9C7-98C-168A@WEBMAIL-MB19.sysops.aol.com> <000501c8d020$cadfbad0$0201a8c0@laptop> <031f01c8d10f$c4b43c40$8d5ae146@ATARIENGINE> <51384.71.226.60.25.1213785420.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> <035501c8d188$27fbf400$8d5ae146@ATARIENGINE> Message-ID: <52636.71.226.60.25.1213824853.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> Hi Sterling: I think that the boing effect and the softward "error" may be one in the same. The software should have ignored the first "bounce," a problem that arose because there was, as I understand it, no test of the integrated system (retrorockets and landing legs). Just found this site: http://shippai.jst.go.jp/en/Detail?fn=0&id=CA1000640 Once in a while a miracle happens and my memory serves me! I think the other cost saving done besides the integrated testing was to just use timing rather than a "real" altimeter to determine when to do things like deploy parachute, heat shield, etc. Larry On Wed, June 18, 2008 2:13 pm, Sterling K. Webb wrote: > Hi, Larry, List, > > > I shouldn't have implied a specific cause was known, > because it isn't, but the altimeter (whose software was apparently faulty) > has been suggested as a possible cause, but the "boing effect" is good. > > I don't even know if the software in the two cases is > actually the same software in integration. I only meant to point out the > extra $31 million was a good investment, considering the outcome. > > > Sterling K. Webb > ----------------------------------------------------------- > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "Sterling K. Webb" > Cc: "Pete Shugar" ; > ; > Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 5:37 AM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NASA Phoenix Lander Bakes Sample, Arm Digs > Deeper > > > > Hello Sterling: > > > I think that it was a software failure that doomed Mars Polar Lander: > > > When the spacecraft sensed that the vehicle had landed, then the engines > were to cut off. This was done by noting that the landing legs flexed > (sprung back as a shock absorber) as the ship touched down. > > > However, as it turned out, when the legs were deployed, having springs, > guess what, they sprung back a little. The engines sensed this as "we are > on the ground" and not "oh, the legs just deployed," and so the engines > turned off at 40 meters altitude, making the landing not so soft. > > Larry > > > On Tue, June 17, 2008 11:51 pm, Sterling K. Webb wrote: > >> Hi, Pete, List, >> >> >> >> This mission was named Phoenix in recognition >> of the fact that like the mythical Phoenix, it rose from the ashes of >> the dead! Once upon a time, there were two Mars missions that died: the >> 2001 >> Mars Surveyor >> lander was cancelled in 2000, and the Mars Polar Lander was lost on Mars >> in 1999. >> >> >> >> Demonstrating the inscrutable wisdom that politicians, >> beaurocrats, and authorities often possess that we lowly groundlings >> lack, the 2001 Mars Surveyor Lander was canceled after it was already >> built and paid for. (Anybody remember the Superconducting Super >> Collider?) >> >> >> At any rate, the 2001 Mars Surveyor Lander had been >> kept in storage at Lockheed Martin clean room in Sunnyvale. And there >> were extra "stay-at-home" duplicates of some instruments for the Polar >> Lander, >> and there was a bit here and there, and there were projects without a >> vehicle or hope of getting another one... >> >> Upshot: for a lousy $386 million, which includes the launch >> and all tips for room service, You The Taxpayer get a whole new Mars >> Mission. Quit whining. For comparison, we spend >> $343 million each and every day in Iraq doing whatever it is >> that we're doing there. >> >> Actually, I lied. Phoenix needed an extra $31 million beyond >> the budget of $386 million and was almost cancelled over it. The >> altimeter was from the Mars Polar Lander (you know, the one that >> crashed). It seems that, hmm... a faulty altimeter may have been to >> blame for that. >> >> It's taken from the one used in F-16 fighter planes. Some >> software problems on the F-16 altimeter were fixed, but the altimeter >> for Phoenix did not get the software upgrade. They >> spent about six months fixing the gizmo, driving up costs. And, hey! It >> worked, didn't it? >> >> Additionally, they had to pay for searching for a boulder-free >> landing spot, using the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter which, yes, charges >> for its services, even to other missions, because every spot they picked >> had boulders. There's a helluva lot of boulders on Mars... >> >> The partnership developing the Phoenix mission >> includes: the University of Arizona, NASA's Jet Propulsion >> Laboratory, Lockheed Martin Space Systems in Denver and >> the Canadian Space Agency, which is providing weather instruments. Peter >> H. >> Smith of the University of Arizona, Lunar >> and Planetary Laboratory heads the Phoenix mission. >> >> Thanks. >> >> >> >> Born from the ashes it may be, but Phoenix will die in the cold. >> It's going into summer in the Martian Arctic; the mission lifetime is >> about 150 days. Phoenix won't survive winter. >> >> I also notice news people describing the Phoenix as having >> landed at Mars's "North Pole," even people on this List. If you were >> aliens going to land on Earth, would you land on the dead center of >> Antarctica? >> Why? >> >> >> >> Phoenix is on the southern edge of the "Boreal Vastness" >> (translating from the Latin name); it is above the Martian Arctic >> Circle, barely (68.35 deg North). For a location comparison >> by latitude, think of landing in the Northwest Territories of Canada. >> The >> "Boreal Vastness" is a flat featureless low-lying >> that covers about the upper third of Mars; many think it is an ancient >> sea bed. >> >> Your criticisms might be to the point if we belonged to a >> species and lived in a culture that made rational and intelligent >> long-term plans to do the things that are truly essential and important >> to them. >> >> If you know of such a place, let me know. >> >> >> >> I sincerely hope you can convince somebody to land a >> multi-ton rompin' rover with nuclear eight-wheel drive, power take-off >> drills on both ends, linear laboratory analysis machines with >> continuous pass-through of Martian samples and 18 experiments online in >> each one (let's have four of'em) and >> a sample return rocket that sends 100 kg of Martian samples up to >> Martian >> orbit to be returned to Earth. >> >> Let's have two, if you're in the mood... >> >> >> >> >> Sterling K. Webb >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> -- >> >> > From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Wed Jun 18 17:35:03 2008 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 23:35:03 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] WG: NASA Phoenix Lander Bakes Sample, Arm Digs Deeper In-Reply-To: <8CA9F984EB4E7CA-17D8-B83@WEBMAIL-DC16.sysops.aol.com> References: <00b801c8d15c$0a59c1b0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> <51867.71.226.60.25.1213812220.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu><00ec01c8d173$c155d090$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> <8CA9F984EB4E7CA-17D8-B83@WEBMAIL-DC16.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <012801c8d18b$2b7c60d0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Hmm, not so updated.... http://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/snc/ No you missed the point... the SNC are in the same way "the beef" as the results of the orbiters and rovers. They add important information. No one expects to find the philosopher's stone in an SNC, as noone in turn would the Mars rovers expect to meet the king of Mars... A geologist in general can access the objects of his studies in most cases. On other planets it's different. Remote exploration from the orbit can't replace the examination of the stuff in the labs. The rovers have a radius of a few miles, Phoenix is stationary - both can't dig deeply.. Look, why are the lunaites so important? Because some of them represent rocks, which weren't sampled by the astronauts, nor by the Luna-probes. They are from different sources, different depths ect. They help to complete the mosaic. (I guess that's also the motivation for people skidding around for decades in cold Antarctica...). (How many of the hits are indeed by Nasa, and how many are results of the Life in Mars meteorite ALH-debate?) Best! Martin -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von mexicodoug at aim.com Gesendet: Mittwoch, 18. Juni 2008 22:24 An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] WG: NASA Phoenix Lander Bakes Sample,Arm Digs Deeper "to me the space agencies seem to be like, like... let's say marine biologists, who tell yaaah let's built one fancy diving robot after the other, we like marine organisms, fishes and stuff! But water? Why should be water interesting for us, what has water to do with our subcject???" Hi Martin, I would modify that example for the Marine Biologist parody, I would say you are asking much of a few distorted 1.3 billion year old catfish fossils from the same brood, and a single 4 billion year old distorted fossil shark's tooth. And then from that, hoping to extrapolate how the entire oceanic and riparian ecosystems evolved to be what they are today on Earth. A geologist (or Areologist) is usually interested in studying the context of his find. Like you, I am a strong supporter of the study of SNC's and of space missions. Happily, a Google of the terms: Mars meteorite NASA gave aboout 144,000 hits and the three terms Mars Meteorite ESA gave about 31,000 hits. For comparison a Google of the two terms: Mars meteorite gave only 193,000 hits. It would seem to me that the space agencies are not so mute on Mars meteorites as you would say! Unless of course, those are all Martinoid complaints ... Like a fish in a fishbowl, you are, not able to perceive it is floating in water, water everywhere ... Science has thankfully analyzed the heck out of the Mars meteorites we have and there are many experts in our midst who have done that who owe a portion of their livelyhood to NASA grants. If any commercial hatcheries can propose how to prepare some delicious catfish in a way not already tried, please propose it to researchers (many of whom have financial ties to NASA or the ESA) and I am certain someone will buy up all the catfish needed to learn anything new. Meanwhile, you gotta be pretty amazed at the wonderful science going on as the geological context of Mars is unwrapped piece by piece, in situ and in real time. That doesn't mean we all can't stand to enjoy a bit more catfish from time to time, hopefully to be washed down with a healthy portion of what is discovered by the thirst for more knowledge. And between me and you and the wall, if given the opportunity to control a spacecraft from another planet to explore its geological structure, vs. buy the same delicious catfish and shark's tooth from reputable local meteorite battered fish & chips joint, and hope to discover a modern Martian cephalopod complete in its whole life cycle and environment falling out of the Mass Spec machine as a result, well, I'd have my activity preference ... :) Best wishes, Doug -----Original Message----- From: Martin Altmann To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 1:47 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] WG: NASA Phoenix Lander Bakes Sample, Arm Digs Deeper Hi Larry, without any doubt! I didn't tell, that we shouldn't fly to Mars or that we shouldn't send space probes there, there was no "instead of". In fact I'm a great fan of planetary missions, and not least the Viking missions had a certain contribution, that I have now my own Mars :-) I'm only always baffled, that the space agencies aren't interested in SNCs at all! I mean, you see, the methods and devices to analyze rocks in situ on a different planet are limited. It is expensive to send robots there and the risk of failure is high. If I'm interested in exploring Mars, why should I then do the research without the samples from Mars I have already here on Earth, where I have no risks to take, which are thousands and thousands times cheaper, then the sniff a rover can take of a rock on the surface of Mars, and - which is most important -, whereon I can apply my whole arsenal of techniques and methods in my lab? Remember back, why NASA built up before Apollo a reference collection of Moon-like rocks, why Shoemaker trained the astronauts in th Ries Crater to pick up the right stuff? See. And there they had the problem, that NO lunar rock was known on Earth at that time. Now to have all those Mars missions, but to ignore the SNC meteorites, Well Larry, to me the space agencies seem to be like, like... let's say marine biologists, who tell yaaah let's built one fancy diving robot after the other, we like marine organisms, fishes and stuff! But water? Why should be water interesting for us, what has water to do with our subcject??? Well, and if I read, that ESA spends funds in collecting Earth-rocks, which are similar to Mars rocks, and is studying them in their labs... Larry, what would be the outcome, if there would be a poll: Hey German taxpayer: ESA wants to learn about Mars rocks, shall they spend the 3$, each of you is paying to ESA each year, for sending people around the globe, to collect earthly stones to analyse them, or shall they rather buy for your money real Mars rocks, which would cost the same? Hmmmmmmmmm....... Martin Doe -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu Gesendet: Mittwoch, 18. Juni 2008 20:04 An: Martin Altmann Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] WG: NASA Phoenix Lander Bakes Sample, Arm Digs Deeper Hello Martin: But there are several reasons for going there: 1. You actually know where the sample came from (not true for the meteorite). 2. To get a meteorite takes a little energy, so "stuff happens" to a Mars rock that does not happen to a pristine soil sample on Mars. 3. If you are looking for water (or water ice or carbon dioxide ice) as part of an initial search for life on Mars, again, you need to know where your sample has come from and that it has not been bashed by an impact, been in space for a few million years, gone through Earth's atmosphere, and then sat on Earth for some unknown length of time. Ideally, you want to get samples from a number of places and bring them back to Earth, but that gets a little more expensive. And you are up against ICAMSR (International Committee against Mars Sample Return) (those Mars bugs are going to get you). For your information, the Mars rovers cost just over $800 million (build a second for about half the cost of one). The "next generation" Mars lander, Mars Science Laboratory, is running $1.2 billion (20% over budget) and behind schedule. This is problem since nothing can be done to get Mars to wait for the Lab to get launched. If it cannot be launched on time, there is a delay of something like 18 months for the next opportunity. In this respect, Phoenix is cheap. Larry On Wed, June 18, 2008 8:57 am, Martin Altmann wrote: > > Hmm Sterling, > > > assumed that I'm not so intelligent, I have a question, which is > bothering me: aside from the achievements and recoveries such a mission > like the Phoenix lander means, > I wonder - well how shall I say - but given the $386,000,000 and not to > mention, what for means a successful sample-return-mission would consume > - > I wonder why NASA is not interested in baking Martian soils and rocks from > many different places on Mars in terrestrial ovens for let's say $30,000 > or something around that sum, (Hey NASA has an a n n u a l budget of > $17,000,000,000 > All SNCs found so far would cost, let's say > $40,000,000 > to make all happy) and I wonder whether the American taxpayer would agree > more to such an expense. > > Strange in my blear eyes is too, that ESA is sending out employees to far > corners of the World, to collect terrestrial analogs to Martian rocks to > analyse and research them, but on the other hand they have no reference > collection of Martian meteorites to work on, although such a collection > currently would cost them less, then the plane tickets for the guys sent > to collect Martian look-a-likes. > > In my na?ve point of view, I was thinking, that it could be a fundamental > and elemental building block of scientific exploration of Planet Mars to > investigate that matter, those rocks from there, we already have here on > Earth? > (as told, maybe I'm to stupid.. but on the other hand, perhaps the quality > of the training and schooling of those guys at NASA, IAXA, ESA had a few > gaps, so that they simply don't know, that we already do have some > Martian > rocks here on Earth? At least I think it is problematical to propagate the > scientific mandate of these organizations to explore Planet Mars and the > necessity of those hefty expenses, but to neglect that simple and > cost-efficient, but nevertheless very important domain of researching the > Martian meteorites - it isn't plausible to public in no way, happily > most of the taxpayers don't know, that there exist meteorites from Mars, > hehe). > > See you all in Ensiheim! > Martin > > > > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von > Sterling > K. Webb > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 18. Juni 2008 08:52 > An: Pete Shugar; Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com; mexicodoug at aim.com > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] NASA Phoenix Lander Bakes Sample,Arm Digs > Deeper > > > Hi, Pete, List, > > > This mission was named Phoenix in recognition > of the fact that like the mythical Phoenix, it rose from the ashes of the > dead! Once upon a time, there were two Mars missions that died: the 2001 > Mars Surveyor > lander was cancelled in 2000, and the Mars Polar Lander was lost on Mars in > 1999. > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From epgrondine at yahoo.com Wed Jun 18 17:35:58 2008 From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 14:35:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Phoenix Message-ID: <765151.43721.qm@web36903.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi Sterling, all, "for a lousy $386 million, which includes the launch and all tips for room service, You The Taxpayer get a whole new Mars Mission. Quit whining. For comparison, we spend $343 million each and every day in Iraq doing whatever it is that we're doing there. Actually, I lied. Phoenix needed an extra $31 million beyond the budget of $386 million and was almost cancelled over it." I'd rather the money had been spent on the construction and launch of a nice small IR telescope to find the next bit of Carbonaceous Chondrite before it hits and kills a lot of people. I do rather like the two small Mars rovers, though. I suspect that the end result of Phoenix is going to be that the realization that the surface of Mars is covered by impactites. In the mean time I would appreciate it if people called frozen CO2 "dry ice" instead of "ice", as this confuses the unwashed, and they think its water. E.P. Grondine "Man and Impact in the Americas" "I wipe my bottom with pages from your book" - Andi "an eccentric and potted ("abbreviated" in Kiwi speak) history... too much history and not enough on the impacts"- Eric "utter nonsense" - "Chief" Jerry "Hawk" Pope "a failure" - Jenifer Bohlm, wife of David Hatcher Childress "hundreds of pages of too small type filled with typos and not enough illustrations - Ed "wonderful - a whole new level" - a shawnee "I've read every page twice" - a navaho "I read it twice and keep it on my desk for reference" - an ojibwe "thank you" - a cherokee From mmurray at montrose.net Wed Jun 18 20:33:51 2008 From: mmurray at montrose.net (Michael Murray) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 18:33:51 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA Phoenix Lander Bakes Sample, Arm Digs Deeper In-Reply-To: <000601c8d09a$d21176c0$0201a8c0@laptop> References: <200806172021.m5HKL1mk030142@mail154c8.megamailservers.com><000801c8d008$5e64a8b0$0201a8c0@laptop><8CA9EF193BDB9C7-98C-168A@WEBMAIL-MB19.sysops.aol.com> <000501c8d020$cadfbad0$0201a8c0@laptop> <031f01c8d10f$c4b43c40$8d5ae146@ATARIENGINE> <51384.71.226.60.25.1213785420.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> <000601c8d09a$d21176c0$0201a8c0@laptop> Message-ID: For a few years now about once a day or so, I have been poking my nose in on the activity going on at www.unmannedspaceflight.com following the rover missions and so on. There are some enlightened folks on there, I have to tell you. I know I'm too stupid to chit- chat with them but you might give it a go. I believe you will find that there is a lot of enthusiasm on there about the Phoenix mission. Mike in CO On Jun 17, 2008, at 10:54 AM, Pete Shugar wrote: > (Quote) Born from the ashes it may be, but Phoenix will die in the > cold. >> It's going into summer in the Martian Arctic; the mission lifetime is >> about 150 days. Phoenix won't survive winter.(end quote) > > When all is said and done, it's still an expensive trash can. > I just hope that enough is learned to make it worth the trip. > Pete > ----- Original Message ----- From: > To: "Sterling K. Webb" > Cc: "Pete Shugar" ; list at meteoritecentral.com>; > Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 5:37 AM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NASA Phoenix Lander Bakes Sample, Arm > Digs Deeper > > >> Hello Sterling: >> >> I think that it was a software failure that doomed Mars Polar Lander: >> >> When the spacecraft sensed that the vehicle had landed, then the >> engines >> were to cut off. This was done by noting that the landing legs flexed >> (sprung back as a shock absorber) as the ship touched down. >> >> However, as it turned out, when the legs were deployed, having >> springs, >> guess what, they sprung back a little. The engines sensed this as >> "we are >> on the ground" and not "oh, the legs just deployed," and so the >> engines >> turned off at 40 meters altitude, making the landing not so soft. >> >> Larry >> >> On Tue, June 17, 2008 11:51 pm, Sterling K. Webb wrote: >>> Hi, Pete, List, >>> >>> >>> This mission was named Phoenix in recognition >>> of the fact that like the mythical Phoenix, it rose from the >>> ashes of the >>> dead! Once upon a time, there were two Mars missions that died: >>> the 2001 >>> Mars Surveyor >>> lander was cancelled in 2000, and the Mars Polar Lander was lost >>> on Mars in >>> 1999. >>> >>> >>> Demonstrating the inscrutable wisdom that politicians, >>> beaurocrats, and authorities often possess that we lowly >>> groundlings lack, >>> the 2001 Mars Surveyor Lander was canceled after it was already >>> built and >>> paid for. (Anybody remember the Superconducting Super Collider?) >>> >>> At any rate, the 2001 Mars Surveyor Lander had been >>> kept in storage at Lockheed Martin clean room in Sunnyvale. And >>> there were >>> extra "stay-at-home" duplicates of some instruments for the Polar >>> Lander, >>> and there was a bit here and there, and there were projects >>> without a >>> vehicle or hope of getting another one... >>> >>> Upshot: for a lousy $386 million, which includes the launch >>> and all tips for room service, You The Taxpayer get a whole new Mars >>> Mission. Quit whining. For comparison, we spend >>> $343 million each and every day in Iraq doing whatever it is >>> that we're doing there. >>> >>> Actually, I lied. Phoenix needed an extra $31 million beyond >>> the budget of $386 million and was almost cancelled over it. The >>> altimeter >>> was from the Mars Polar Lander (you know, the one that crashed). >>> It seems >>> that, hmm... a faulty altimeter may have been to blame for that. >>> >>> It's taken from the one used in F-16 fighter planes. Some >>> software problems on the F-16 altimeter were fixed, but the >>> altimeter for >>> Phoenix did not get the software upgrade. They >>> spent about six months fixing the gizmo, driving up costs. And, >>> hey! It >>> worked, didn't it? >>> >>> Additionally, they had to pay for searching for a boulder-free >>> landing spot, using the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter which, yes, >>> charges for >>> its services, even to other missions, because every spot they >>> picked had >>> boulders. There's a helluva lot of boulders on Mars... >>> >>> The partnership developing the Phoenix mission >>> includes: the University of Arizona, NASA's Jet Propulsion >>> Laboratory, Lockheed Martin Space Systems in Denver and >>> the Canadian Space Agency, which is providing weather >>> instruments. Peter H. >>> Smith of the University of Arizona, Lunar >>> and Planetary Laboratory heads the Phoenix mission. >>> >>> Thanks. >>> >>> >>> Born from the ashes it may be, but Phoenix will die in the cold. >>> It's going into summer in the Martian Arctic; the mission >>> lifetime is >>> about 150 days. Phoenix won't survive winter. >>> >>> I also notice news people describing the Phoenix as having >>> landed at Mars's "North Pole," even people on this List. If you >>> were aliens >>> going to land on Earth, would you land on the dead center of >>> Antarctica? >>> Why? >>> >>> >>> Phoenix is on the southern edge of the "Boreal Vastness" >>> (translating from the Latin name); it is above the Martian Arctic >>> Circle, barely (68.35 deg North). For a location comparison >>> by latitude, think of landing in the Northwest Territories of >>> Canada. The >>> "Boreal Vastness" is a flat featureless low-lying >>> that covers about the upper third of Mars; many think it is an >>> ancient sea >>> bed. >>> >>> Your criticisms might be to the point if we belonged to a >>> species and lived in a culture that made rational and intelligent >>> long-term >>> plans to do the things that are truly essential and important to >>> them. >>> >>> If you know of such a place, let me know. >>> >>> >>> I sincerely hope you can convince somebody to land a >>> multi-ton rompin' rover with nuclear eight-wheel drive, power >>> take-off >>> drills on both ends, linear laboratory analysis machines with >>> continuous >>> pass-through of Martian samples and 18 experiments online in each >>> one >>> (let's have four of'em) and >>> a sample return rocket that sends 100 kg of Martian samples up to >>> Martian >>> orbit to be returned to Earth. >>> >>> Let's have two, if you're in the mood... >>> >>> >>> >>> Sterling K. Webb >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> ------ >>> > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com Wed Jun 18 21:26:02 2008 From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 18:26:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] who found hueco tanks Message-ID: <646194.17761.qm@web57801.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Good evening list.I need a question answered.I just bought a small meteorite collection from bob haag.One of the pieces is a 82 gram slice of HUECO TANKS,TEXAS.TKW is only 314 grams.1 stone was found in 1985.I just cannot seem to find any info on the person who found this rare texas piece.Any help from the texas people?Or anyone. Steve R.Arnold,chicago,Ill,Usa!! ???? The Asteroid Belt! ??? http://chicagometeorites.net/ ??? Collecting Meteorites since 06/19/1999 ??? Ebay I.D. Illinoismeteorites From edeckert at triad.rr.com Wed Jun 18 21:44:10 2008 From: edeckert at triad.rr.com (Ed Deckert) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 21:44:10 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] who found hueco tanks References: <646194.17761.qm@web57801.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <00f701c8d1ad$f8410fe0$6401a8c0@EdDeckertMain> The Encyclopedia of Meteorites website says "Found by Mr. George Bioole in a sand blow while hunting for insects. Source: R. A. Haag, 2990 E. Michigan Street, Tucson, Arizona 85714, USA." http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/T_Meteoriteview.asp?key=37470 Ed Deckert IMCA #8911 ----- Original Message ----- From: "steve arnold" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 9:26 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] who found hueco tanks Good evening list.I need a question answered.I just bought a small meteorite collection from bob haag.One of the pieces is a 82 gram slice of HUECO TANKS,TEXAS.TKW is only 314 grams.1 stone was found in 1985.I just cannot seem to find any info on the person who found this rare texas piece.Any help from the texas people?Or anyone. Steve R.Arnold,chicago,Ill,Usa!! The Asteroid Belt! http://chicagometeorites.net/ Collecting Meteorites since 06/19/1999 Ebay I.D. Illinoismeteorites ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Wed Jun 18 23:29:13 2008 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 22:29:13 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Carancas paper References: <822da19a0806152024q1199c78cp8b8f792843f645cd@mail.gmail.com><20080616121114.290190@gmx.net><20080616153413.197250@gmx.net> <200806171325.m5HDPKfb032506@mx55.ms.so-net.ne.jp> Message-ID: <037d01c8d1bc$a5e38f70$8d5ae146@ATARIENGINE> Hi, Katsu, List, Thanks for the link to this paper. As for the paper itself, I find it basically unbelievable. Using today's substitute for actual science, the mathematic model computer simulation, they "solve" the problem of the Carancas meteoroid by hypothesizing that it is "monolithic" (without any structural weaknesses) and of an abnormally strong material. Of course, if they had ever tested or even looked at the Carancas material, they would have seen that the exact opposite is true. Carancas is weak, friable, and riddled with shock veins, melts, slickensides (Elton says, with evidence). Carancas is so weak it must be handled carefully. Someone must have pointed this problem out to the authors. This quotation from the very end of the paper is their answer: "The meteorites recovered close to the crater were reported to be fragile (N??ez del Prado et al. 2008). The meteorites cannot be, however, considered to reflect the properties of the original meteoroid in this respect, since the material was subject to strong shock during the actual impact and may have been reduced almost to powder." The notion that impact and subsequent fragmentation miraculously transforms the meteoritic substance unrecognizably is an unique idea, has never proposed before, and strikes me, frankly, as idiotic. Please, explain to me how the 50,000+ fragments of Sikhote-Alin, for example, differ from the original iron meteoroid? The physical properties of the 50,000+ fragments are identical to each other and identical to other, unfragmented meteorites of the same type. When a fragment is produced from the shock of impact, it is most likely from the "back" of the impactor. At impact, the shock wave proceeds forward into the impacted surface and backward through the meteoroid. Assuming impact is energetic enough, at the front of the meteoroid, material is vaporized. Further back, material is melted. Further back still, material is reduced to a powder (that's the norm for catastrophic failure in stone). At the very rear of the impactor, the shock wave detaches fragments. All the meteorites recovered from any impact are essentially these detached fragments. Detachment occurs when the shock wave reaches a plane of weakness, a shock vein or other feature that cleaves, allowing the escape of the fragment. The point that's important here is that escaped fragments have not yet experienced the passage of the shock wave at the time they escape, only the mild shock of detachment. The only evidence in Carancas of rock vapor or melt is in the products of the ablation trail. The crater and its vicinity was liberally dusted with rock powder in large quantities. There were large, multi-kilo fragments, mostly scooped up in the first few days by scientists (and not avid meteorite dealers) from INGEMET and the Bolivian university who were the first on the scene. These large fragments are the most representative of the meteoroid; there is nothing in the reports published about these fragments to suggest anything like monolithic strength. As a result, the surviving fragments, which are ALL the meteorites produced from the impact, have NOT been "subject to strong shock during the actual impact." Intact detached fragments are absolutely and completely representative of the original physical properties of the meteoroid. I judge the "monolithic hypothesis" to be a fairy tale. Extraordinary claims demand... well, you know. They claim a strong monolithic material. When confronted with a weak non-monolithic fragment of their supposed monolith, they wave their hand, "Oh, it's been magically transformed!" That's pretty extraordinary. Sterling K. Webb --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 8:25 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Carancas paper Hello list members, I have just downloaded a free PDF file of the letter paper on the Carancas event, published in A&A yesterday. This seems to be very interesting and the link is below: http://www.aanda.org/index.php?option=article&access=standard&Itemid=129&url=/articles/aa/abs/2008/26/aa09905-08/aa09905-08.html Katsu Tokyo, JAPAN ------------------------------------------------------ A&A 485, L1-L4 (2008) DOI: 10.1051/0004-6361:200809905 Letter The Carancas meteorite impact - Encounter with a monolithic meteoroid J. Borovicka and P. Spurn? Astronomical Institute of the Academy of Sciences, Fricova 298, 25165 Ondrejov Observatory, Czech Republic e-mail: borovic at asu.cas.cz Received 4 April 2008 / Accepted 4 May 2008 Abstract The formation of a 13-m wide impact crater by a stony meteorite near Carancas, Peru, on September 15, 2007 was an unexpected event. Stony meteoroids usually disintegrate in the atmosphere in many pieces, each landing at low velocity. We present examples of well-observed fireballs, which have all experienced atmospheric fragmentation. Using a simple model, we find that the Carancas meteoroid may have avoided fragmentation, if its strength was 20-40 MPa; such a strength would be comparable to the tensile strength of stony meteorites, but is higher than the strength of other observed meteoroids. We conclude that Carancas was a rare example of a monolithic meteoroid that was free of internal cracks. This example demonstrates that meteoroid strength can vary significantly from case to case and does not depend on meteoroid size. We estimate that the initial size of Carancas meteoroid was 0.9-1.7 m. Our model predicts an impact velocity that w as in the range 2-4 km s-1. Key words: meteors, meteoroids -- Earth ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mark.ford at ssl.gb.com Thu Jun 19 05:11:58 2008 From: mark.ford at ssl.gb.com (Mark Ford) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 10:11:58 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] WG: NASA Phoenix Lander Bakes Sample, Arm Digs Deeper In-Reply-To: <00ec01c8d173$c155d090$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> References: <00b801c8d15c$0a59c1b0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2><51867.71.226.60.25.1213812220.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> <00ec01c8d173$c155d090$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: <29A9DB45B84970458190D7D39BD42C4934F376@gamma.ssl.atw> Hi Martin et al,. Firstly there ARE a lot of researchers working on Martian meteorites, secondly Martian meteorites are contaminated with terrestrial contamination, which makes them next to useless for proper Life studies or similar. The only information you can reliably gain from a martian meteorite is geological (how it formed etc, and maybe some hints at past water. I certainly don't think we can decide if there is life on Mars from martian meteorite studies, (looking for life in a piece of rock that's been sitting on the ground in a wet oxygen rich Earth full of life is actually pretty dumb) Basically there is just an awful lot you [can't] do with Earth contaminated Martian rocks. That is why a sample return is the only way to go imho. Phoenix is attempting to do very simple life detection but, if we really want to look for an Alien life form we need to pull a clean direct Martian sample apart atom by atom, that means doing it here on Earth. However so confident am I that Mars does not contain life, I personally would be prepared to eat a piece of returned Martian soil! Best, Mark Ford -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Martin Altmann Sent: 18 June 2008 19:47 To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] WG: NASA Phoenix Lander Bakes Sample,Arm Digs Deeper Hi Larry, without any doubt! I didn't tell, that we shouldn't fly to Mars or that we shouldn't send space probes there, there was no "instead of". In fact I'm a great fan of planetary missions, and not least the Viking missions had a certain contribution, that I have now my own Mars :-) I'm only always baffled, that the space agencies aren't interested in SNCs at all! I mean, you see, the methods and devices to analyze rocks in situ on a different planet are limited. It is expensive to send robots there and the risk of failure is high. If I'm interested in exploring Mars, why should I then do the research without the samples from Mars I have already here on Earth, where I have no risks to take, which are thousands and thousands times cheaper, then the sniff a rover can take of a rock on the surface of Mars, and - which is most important -, whereon I can apply my whole arsenal of techniques and methods in my lab? Remember back, why NASA built up before Apollo a reference collection of Moon-like rocks, why Shoemaker trained the astronauts in th Ries Crater to pick up the right stuff? See. And there they had the problem, that NO lunar rock was known on Earth at that time. Now to have all those Mars missions, but to ignore the SNC meteorites, Well Larry, to me the space agencies seem to be like, like... let's say marine biologists, who tell yaaah let's built one fancy diving robot after the other, we like marine organisms, fishes and stuff! But water? Why should be water interesting for us, what has water to do with our subcject??? Well, and if I read, that ESA spends funds in collecting Earth-rocks, which are similar to Mars rocks, and is studying them in their labs... Larry, what would be the outcome, if there would be a poll: Hey German taxpayer: ESA wants to learn about Mars rocks, shall they spend the 3$, each of you is paying to ESA each year, for sending people around the globe, to collect earthly stones to analyse them, or shall they rather buy for your money real Mars rocks, which would cost the same? Hmmmmmmmmm....... Martin Doe -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu Gesendet: Mittwoch, 18. Juni 2008 20:04 An: Martin Altmann Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] WG: NASA Phoenix Lander Bakes Sample, Arm Digs Deeper Hello Martin: But there are several reasons for going there: 1. You actually know where the sample came from (not true for the meteorite). 2. To get a meteorite takes a little energy, so "stuff happens" to a Mars rock that does not happen to a pristine soil sample on Mars. 3. If you are looking for water (or water ice or carbon dioxide ice) as part of an initial search for life on Mars, again, you need to know where your sample has come from and that it has not been bashed by an impact, been in space for a few million years, gone through Earth's atmosphere, and then sat on Earth for some unknown length of time. Ideally, you want to get samples from a number of places and bring them back to Earth, but that gets a little more expensive. And you are up against ICAMSR (International Committee against Mars Sample Return) (those Mars bugs are going to get you). For your information, the Mars rovers cost just over $800 million (build a second for about half the cost of one). The "next generation" Mars lander, Mars Science Laboratory, is running $1.2 billion (20% over budget) and behind schedule. This is problem since nothing can be done to get Mars to wait for the Lab to get launched. If it cannot be launched on time, there is a delay of something like 18 months for the next opportunity. In this respect, Phoenix is cheap. Larry On Wed, June 18, 2008 8:57 am, Martin Altmann wrote: > > Hmm Sterling, > > > assumed that I'm not so intelligent, I have a question, which is > bothering me: aside from the achievements and recoveries such a mission > like the Phoenix lander means, > I wonder - well how shall I say - but given the $386,000,000 and not to > mention, what for means a successful sample-return-mission would consume > - > I wonder why NASA is not interested in baking Martian soils and rocks from > many different places on Mars in terrestrial ovens for let's say $30,000 > or something around that sum, (Hey NASA has an a n n u a l budget of > $17,000,000,000 > All SNCs found so far would cost, let's say > $40,000,000 > to make all happy) and I wonder whether the American taxpayer would agree > more to such an expense. > > Strange in my blear eyes is too, that ESA is sending out employees to far > corners of the World, to collect terrestrial analogs to Martian rocks to > analyse and research them, but on the other hand they have no reference > collection of Martian meteorites to work on, although such a collection > currently would cost them less, then the plane tickets for the guys sent > to collect Martian look-a-likes. > > In my na?ve point of view, I was thinking, that it could be a fundamental > and elemental building block of scientific exploration of Planet Mars to > investigate that matter, those rocks from there, we already have here on > Earth? > (as told, maybe I'm to stupid.. but on the other hand, perhaps the quality > of the training and schooling of those guys at NASA, IAXA, ESA had a few > gaps, so that they simply don't know, that we already do have some > Martian > rocks here on Earth? At least I think it is problematical to propagate the > scientific mandate of these organizations to explore Planet Mars and the > necessity of those hefty expenses, but to neglect that simple and > cost-efficient, but nevertheless very important domain of researching the > Martian meteorites - it isn't plausible to public in no way, happily > most of the taxpayers don't know, that there exist meteorites from Mars, > hehe). > > See you all in Ensiheim! > Martin > > > > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von > Sterling > K. Webb > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 18. Juni 2008 08:52 > An: Pete Shugar; Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com; mexicodoug at aim.com > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] NASA Phoenix Lander Bakes Sample,Arm Digs > Deeper > > > Hi, Pete, List, > > > This mission was named Phoenix in recognition > of the fact that like the mythical Phoenix, it rose from the ashes of the > dead! Once upon a time, there were two Mars missions that died: the 2001 > Mars Surveyor > lander was cancelled in 2000, and the Mars Polar Lander was lost on Mars in > 1999. > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us. Email info at ssl.gb.com. You should not copy or use this email or attachment(s) for any purpose nor disclose their contents to any other person. GENERAL STATEMENT: Southern Scientific Ltd's computer systems may be monitored and communications carried on them recorded, to secure the effective operation of the system and for other lawful purposes. Registered address Rectory Farm Rd, Sompting, Lancing, W Sussex BN15 0DP. Company No 1800317 From nwa482 at comcast.net Thu Jun 19 07:03:36 2008 From: nwa482 at comcast.net (Jim Strope) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 07:03:36 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Ebay Auctions ending - Planetaries etc Message-ID: <000201c8d1fc$202d42a0$0202a8c0@DJQVK441> Good Morning All........ I have auctions ending tonight, ebay ID catchafallingstar.com. ALL started just at 99 Cents!!! FULL RECAP: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZcatchafallingstar.com Of special note this time, I have a 3 Planetaries to offer this time: NWA 2995 Lunar, This specimen has an edge of the outside of the meteorite and beautiful ANORTHOSITIC clasts: (This sold for many thousands of dollars per gram at the recent Bohnams auction.) http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200229312681 NWA 2977 Lunar Gabbro with Fusion Crust: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200229313165 NWA 2986 Martian Shergottite: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200229313732 Plus many more. See recap: http://members.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPage&userid=catchafallingstar.com Thanks for looking ................ Jim Strope 421 Fourth Street Glen Dale, WV 26038 http://www.catchafallingstar.com From edeckert at triad.rr.com Thu Jun 19 10:17:14 2008 From: edeckert at triad.rr.com (edeckert at triad.rr.com) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 10:17:14 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] WG: NASA Phoenix Lander Bakes Sample, Arm Digs Deeper Message-ID: <380-22008641914171432@M2W022.mail2web.com> And we are worried about terrestrial contamination of martian material here on earth? Check this out... http://www.comics.com/creators/rubes/archive/rubes-20080619.html ;-) Ed Original Message: ----------------- From: Mark Ford mark.ford at ssl.gb.com Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 10:11:58 +0100 To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] WG: NASA Phoenix Lander Bakes Sample,Arm Digs Deeper Hi Martin et al,. Firstly there ARE a lot of researchers working on Martian meteorites, secondly Martian meteorites are contaminated with terrestrial contamination, which makes them next to useless for proper Life studies or similar. The only information you can reliably gain from a martian meteorite is geological (how it formed etc, and maybe some hints at past water. I certainly don't think we can decide if there is life on Mars from martian meteorite studies, (looking for life in a piece of rock that's been sitting on the ground in a wet oxygen rich Earth full of life is actually pretty dumb) Basically there is just an awful lot you [can't] do with Earth contaminated Martian rocks. That is why a sample return is the only way to go imho. Phoenix is attempting to do very simple life detection but, if we really want to look for an Alien life form we need to pull a clean direct Martian sample apart atom by atom, that means doing it here on Earth. However so confident am I that Mars does not contain life, I personally would be prepared to eat a piece of returned Martian soil! Best, Mark Ford -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Martin Altmann Sent: 18 June 2008 19:47 To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] WG: NASA Phoenix Lander Bakes Sample,Arm Digs Deeper Hi Larry, without any doubt! I didn't tell, that we shouldn't fly to Mars or that we shouldn't send space probes there, there was no "instead of". In fact I'm a great fan of planetary missions, and not least the Viking missions had a certain contribution, that I have now my own Mars :-) I'm only always baffled, that the space agencies aren't interested in SNCs at all! I mean, you see, the methods and devices to analyze rocks in situ on a different planet are limited. It is expensive to send robots there and the risk of failure is high. If I'm interested in exploring Mars, why should I then do the research without the samples from Mars I have already here on Earth, where I have no risks to take, which are thousands and thousands times cheaper, then the sniff a rover can take of a rock on the surface of Mars, and - which is most important -, whereon I can apply my whole arsenal of techniques and methods in my lab? Remember back, why NASA built up before Apollo a reference collection of Moon-like rocks, why Shoemaker trained the astronauts in th Ries Crater to pick up the right stuff? See. And there they had the problem, that NO lunar rock was known on Earth at that time. Now to have all those Mars missions, but to ignore the SNC meteorites, Well Larry, to me the space agencies seem to be like, like... let's say marine biologists, who tell yaaah let's built one fancy diving robot after the other, we like marine organisms, fishes and stuff! But water? Why should be water interesting for us, what has water to do with our subcject??? Well, and if I read, that ESA spends funds in collecting Earth-rocks, which are similar to Mars rocks, and is studying them in their labs... Larry, what would be the outcome, if there would be a poll: Hey German taxpayer: ESA wants to learn about Mars rocks, shall they spend the 3$, each of you is paying to ESA each year, for sending people around the globe, to collect earthly stones to analyse them, or shall they rather buy for your money real Mars rocks, which would cost the same? Hmmmmmmmmm....... Martin Doe -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu Gesendet: Mittwoch, 18. Juni 2008 20:04 An: Martin Altmann Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] WG: NASA Phoenix Lander Bakes Sample, Arm Digs Deeper Hello Martin: But there are several reasons for going there: 1. You actually know where the sample came from (not true for the meteorite). 2. To get a meteorite takes a little energy, so "stuff happens" to a Mars rock that does not happen to a pristine soil sample on Mars. 3. If you are looking for water (or water ice or carbon dioxide ice) as part of an initial search for life on Mars, again, you need to know where your sample has come from and that it has not been bashed by an impact, been in space for a few million years, gone through Earth's atmosphere, and then sat on Earth for some unknown length of time. Ideally, you want to get samples from a number of places and bring them back to Earth, but that gets a little more expensive. And you are up against ICAMSR (International Committee against Mars Sample Return) (those Mars bugs are going to get you). For your information, the Mars rovers cost just over $800 million (build a second for about half the cost of one). The "next generation" Mars lander, Mars Science Laboratory, is running $1.2 billion (20% over budget) and behind schedule. This is problem since nothing can be done to get Mars to wait for the Lab to get launched. If it cannot be launched on time, there is a delay of something like 18 months for the next opportunity. In this respect, Phoenix is cheap. Larry On Wed, June 18, 2008 8:57 am, Martin Altmann wrote: > > Hmm Sterling, > > > assumed that I'm not so intelligent, I have a question, which is > bothering me: aside from the achievements and recoveries such a mission > like the Phoenix lander means, > I wonder - well how shall I say - but given the $386,000,000 and not to > mention, what for means a successful sample-return-mission would consume > - > I wonder why NASA is not interested in baking Martian soils and rocks from > many different places on Mars in terrestrial ovens for let's say $30,000 > or something around that sum, (Hey NASA has an a n n u a l budget of > $17,000,000,000 > All SNCs found so far would cost, let's say > $40,000,000 > to make all happy) and I wonder whether the American taxpayer would agree > more to such an expense. > > Strange in my blear eyes is too, that ESA is sending out employees to far > corners of the World, to collect terrestrial analogs to Martian rocks to > analyse and research them, but on the other hand they have no reference > collection of Martian meteorites to work on, although such a collection > currently would cost them less, then the plane tickets for the guys sent > to collect Martian look-a-likes. > > In my na?ve point of view, I was thinking, that it could be a fundamental > and elemental building block of scientific exploration of Planet Mars to > investigate that matter, those rocks from there, we already have here on > Earth? > (as told, maybe I'm to stupid.. but on the other hand, perhaps the quality > of the training and schooling of those guys at NASA, IAXA, ESA had a few > gaps, so that they simply don't know, that we already do have some > Martian > rocks here on Earth? At least I think it is problematical to propagate the > scientific mandate of these organizations to explore Planet Mars and the > necessity of those hefty expenses, but to neglect that simple and > cost-efficient, but nevertheless very important domain of researching the > Martian meteorites - it isn't plausible to public in no way, happily > most of the taxpayers don't know, that there exist meteorites from Mars, > hehe). > > See you all in Ensiheim! > Martin > > > > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von > Sterling > K. Webb > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 18. Juni 2008 08:52 > An: Pete Shugar; Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com; mexicodoug at aim.com > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] NASA Phoenix Lander Bakes Sample,Arm Digs > Deeper > > > Hi, Pete, List, > > > This mission was named Phoenix in recognition > of the fact that like the mythical Phoenix, it rose from the ashes of the > dead! Once upon a time, there were two Mars missions that died: the 2001 > Mars Surveyor > lander was cancelled in 2000, and the Mars Polar Lander was lost on Mars in > 1999. > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us. Email info at ssl.gb.com. You should not copy or use this email or attachment(s) for any purpose nor disclose their contents to any other person. GENERAL STATEMENT: Southern Scientific Ltd's computer systems may be monitored and communications carried on them recorded, to secure the effective operation of the system and for other lawful purposes. Registered address Rectory Farm Rd, Sompting, Lancing, W Sussex BN15 0DP. Company No 1800317 ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web LIVE ? Free email based on Microsoft? Exchange technology - http://link.mail2web.com/LIVE From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Thu Jun 19 20:17:54 2008 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 19:17:54 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] PLUTO'S IDENTITY CRISIS Message-ID: <040e01c8d26b$1603a390$8d5ae146@ATARIENGINE> Hi, Well, your schools can throw away those brand-new textbooks you just bought, in which Pluto is called a dwarf planet. Dwarves are out; Plutoids are in. (Is Walt Disney getting a cut of the action on this?) One smart textbook publisher just leaves the whole thing out of their books so they don't have change them all the time. The "new" 2008 science textbooks are mostly the first to use the "dwarf" moniker, so it's a case of "here's the new textbook; it's wrong." Maybe they should issue the "Astronomy" section of the science book as a Comic Book every year? Meanwhile, here's the URL of another article, interviews with professional astronomers who explain that "defining" a planet is a useless waste of time. The title is "Why Planets Will Never Be Defined." http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/061121_exoplanet_definition.html Sterling K. Webb ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/080619-pluto-confusion.html Pluto's Identity Crisis Hits Classrooms and Bookstores By Jeanna Bryner SPACE.COM Pluto was once a planet. Then, a dwarf planet. And as of last week, a plutoid. The fall from grace has teachers, parents and educational publishers struggling to keep up, while kids remain loyal to their favorite, the ninth planet. Underscore planet. Last week, the International Astronomical Union (IAU) announced Pluto should now be called a "plutoid," two years after the organization voted to demote Pluto to "dwarf planet" status. Meanwhile, many kids are nearly certain Pluto is still a planet. "I think it's a planet. But me and my friends, we talk about it sometimes and we go back and forth," said Natalie Browning, 9, sitting in a park in Manhattan with her family. "Right now, I'm not 100 percent. I'm just 75 percent" sure that Pluto is a planet. Natalie's mom, Bobbie Browning, said, "You've got kids with textbooks saying that Pluto is part of the solar system and a planet, and teachers have to say it isn't [a planet]." Science teachers and publishers already worked to update their resources to read "dwarf planet." And now, boom, that category is out of favor among astronomers. "Students who have just learned about the concept of dwarf planets must now be taught the new concept of plutoid," said Janis Milman, who teaches earth science at Thomas Stone High School in Maryland. "This will lead to confusion in the classroom and resistance to learning the new terms, because the students will question, why learn something that might change again in a year or so?" A cursory survey at a large chain bookstore here revealed three out of four books published in 2006 or later were updated, with Pluto designated as a dwarf planet and the solar system said to include just eight planets. Chronicles of Pluto Discovered in 1930 by Clyde W. Tombaugh at Lowell Observatory in Arizona, Pluto was always considered an oddball of sorts, with its tiny size (smaller than some moons) and eccentric orbit. During its 248-year trek around the sun, Pluto swings from its farthest point from the sun at 49.5 astronomical units (AU) to as close as 29 AU from the sun. One AU is the average distance between the Earth and sun, or about 93 million miles (150 million kilometers). More than 70 years later, in August 2006, 424 astronomers at an IAU meeting voted to demote Pluto to dwarf planet status. Last week, the IAU Executive Committee reclassified Pluto as a plutoid. The other object in the plutoid club, Eris, is larger and more massive than Pluto. Astronomers expect to find hundreds of Pluto-sized objects. And so the fate of Pluto will determine how these worlds are classified. For instance, new computer modeling suggests an object up to 70 percent of Earth's mass is lurking beyond Pluto. This "Planet X," if confirmed, would be called a plutoid under the IAU's scheme. No matter what the scientists say, many kids won't let go. "It's a planet," said fifth-grader Emily Mitchell, whose mother Laurie agreed, saying, "I grew up learning it was a planet." "It's the smallest planet," said Liam, a 4-year-old who is "about to be 5." Liam's teacher Rachel Kaplan said, "I was really sad when Pluto was declassified as a planet, because I've studied astrology for a number of years." Aileen Wilson said her 7-year-old son is interested in Pluto's label. "He's interested in why it was a planet and why it's not a planet anymore." "I know that it was demoted and it's not a planet. But I don't know what it's called," said Erin Kelly, a pre-school teacher sitting on a park bench with her students in New York. In the classroom Even as scientists are arguing over the "plutoid" designation, with some saying they won't use the term, educators are already latching onto it. Change is the name of the game in science, according to Gerry Wheeler, the executive director of the National Science Teachers Association. "Basically, it's a teachable moment for science teachers, because it shows the dynamic nature of science," Wheeler told SPACE.com. He added the NSTA will spread news of the plutoid category to science teachers in the fall. Elementary school science teacher Lucy Jensen agrees: "Pluto has made it interesting studying our planets this year." She teaches at Joliet Public School in Montana. "Our only problem we now have is buying new material, such as posters, videos, DVDs and game/study materials that need to be updated," she said. Jensen added that while her fourth-grade students were more upset than the third graders about Pluto's demotion, the parents were the most upset. "It is hard to teach old dogs new tricks, and we like what we know," she said. "Time has always been taken in the classroom to ponder the origin of Pluto. When Pluto became a dwarf planet, along with Eris and Ceres, it made it easier to explain why an object of Pluto's small stature could be classified," high-school teacher Milman said. "Now we will just need to teach them more new definitions." Milman added that "dwarf planets" is an easier term for students to grasp compared with plutoids. "Objects of Pluto, Eris and Ceres' size are too small to be called planets so they were called dwarf planets. That was easier for the students to understand," she said. Yet many students are still unaware of the change made in 2006. "My fourth graders still consider Pluto a planet," said Bev Grueber, a science teacher at North Bend Elementary in Nebraska. "We do extensive oral reports on the planets to meet a state standard, and everyone jumps for joy when they get Pluto. Last year, I left Pluto out of the draw and they asked where it was, so they still consider it a planet regardless of what the space scientists tell us the definition of that planet is." Aram Friedman, who founded Ansible Technologies Ltd. in New Jersey, travels to schools to teach about astronomy using a portable planetarium. In a typical fifth-grade class, he teaches students the features of the inner planets and the outer planets. Pluto, he says, doesn't fit into those categories. That makes sense to kids. Publishing lag Many science textbooks have only recently caught up with the dwarf planet concept. For publisher McGraw Hill Education, the 2008 elementary and secondary school science textbooks describe Pluto as a dwarf planet. Middle schools with the current Holt Science and Technology textbooks would see Pluto defined as a dwarf planet. McDougal Littell Science took a slightly different approach. "We didn't say how many planets there were, so we didn't have to make a lot of changes. We explained, historically, that it had been classified as a planet when it was discovered," said Dan Rogers, vice president and director of Holt McDougal's science and health product development. McDougal's teacher's edition included a detailed explanation of Pluto's dwarf planet status. "One of the reasons we were cautious is because we thought the whole thing was unresolved and was going to change again," Rogers said. "We're in the process of developing a brand new program, a new set of books." In "Traveler's Guide to the Solar System," an astronomy book published in 2007 for kids age 8 to 10, the author notes, "Earth is the third of nine planets (some say eight, some say ten, but nine is kind of traditional), orbiting our local star, the Sun." Starry Night, astronomy software that includes educational resources, refers to Pluto as a dwarf planet, according to content director Pedro Braganca. (Starry Night is a division of Imaginova Corp., which also owns SPACE.com.) And soon, educational publishers may need to re-update material. Word has it astronomers are vowing to pursue a reinstatement of Pluto as a planet. From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Thu Jun 19 20:45:37 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 17:45:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Phoenix Mars Lander to Dig; Team Probes Flash Memory Message-ID: <200806200045.RAA23386@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/phoenix/release.php?ArticleID=1750 NASA Mars Lander to Dig; Team Probes Flash Memory Jet Propulsion Laboratory June 18, 2008 TUCSON, Ariz. -- NASA's Phoenix Mars Mission generated an unusually high volume of spacecraft housekeeping data on Tuesday causing the loss of some non-critical science data. Phoenix engineers are analyzing why this anomaly occurred. The science team is planning spacecraft activities for Thursday that will not rely on Phoenix storing science data overnight but will make use of multiple communication relays to gain extra data quantity. "The spacecraft is healthy and fully commandable, but we are proceeding cautiously until we understand the root cause of this event," said Phoenix Project Manager Barry Goldstein of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory. Usually Phoenix generates a small amount of data daily about maintaining its computer files, and this data gets a high priority in what gets stored in the spacecraft's non-volatile flash memory. On Tuesday, the quantity of this data was so high that it prevented science data from being stored in flash memory, so the remaining science data onboard Wednesday, when the spacecraft powered down for the Martian night after completing its 22nd Martian day, or sol, since landing, was not retained. None of that science data was high-priority data. Almost all was imaging that can be retaken, with the exception of images taken of a surface that Phoenix's arm dug into after the images were taken. To avoid stressing Phoenix's capacity for storing data in flash memory while powered off for overnight sleeps, the team commanded Phoenix Tuesday evening to refrain from any new science investigations on Wednesday and to lower the priority for the type of file-housekeeping data that exceeded expected volume on Tuesday. "We can continue doing science that does not rely on non-volatile memory," Goldstein said. Most science data collected during the mission has been downlinked to Earth on the same sol it has been collected, not requiring overnight storage, but on some sols the team has intentionally included imaging that yields more data than can fit in the afternoon communication passes. This has been done in order to take advantage of the capacity to downlink additional data during communications passes on the following Martian mornings. In the short term, while the root cause of the unexpected amount of housekeeping data is being determined, the science team will forgo that strategy of storing data overnight. Meanwhile, extra communication-relay opportunities have been added to Thursday's schedule, so the science plan for the day will be able to generate plentiful data without needing overnight storage. Trench-digging, imaging and weather monitoring are in the plan. The Phoenix mission is led by Peter Smith of the University of Arizona with project management at JPL and development partnership at Lockheed Martin, located in Denver. International contributions come from the Canadian Space Agency; the University of Neuchatel, Switzerland; the universities of Copenhagen and Aarhus, Denmark; Max Planck Institute, Germany; and the Finnish Meteorological Institute. For more about Phoenix, visit: http://www.nasa.gov/phoenix and http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu. Media contacts: Guy Webster 818-354-6278 Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. guy.webster at jpl.nasa.gov Dwayne Brown 202-358-1726 NASA Headquarters, Washington dwayne.c.brown at nasa.gov Sara Hammond 520-626-1974 University of Arizona, Tucson shammond at lpl.arizona.edu From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Thu Jun 19 20:51:17 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 17:51:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Bright Chunks at Phoenix Lander's Mars Site Must Have Been Ice Message-ID: <200806200051.RAA24590@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> Bright Chunks at Phoenix Lander's Mars Site Must Have Been Ice Johnny Cruz University of Arizona June 19, 2008 Dice-size crumbs of bright material have vanished from inside a trench where they were photographed by NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander four days ago, convincing scientists that the material was frozen water that vaporized after digging exposed it. "It must be ice," said Phoenix Principal Investigator Peter Smith of The University of Arizona, Tucson. "These little clumps completely disappearing over the course of a few days, that is perfect evidence that it's ice," Smith added. "There had been some question whether the bright material was salt. Salt can't do that." The chunks were left at the bottom of a trench informally called "Dodo-Goldilocks" when Phoenix's Robotic Arm enlarged that trench on June 15, during the 20th Martian day, or sol, since landing. Several were gone when Phoenix looked at the trench early today, on Sol 24. Also early today, digging in a different trench, the Robotic Arm connected with a hard surface that has scientists excited about the prospect of next uncovering an icy layer. The Phoenix science team spent Thursday analyzing new images and data successfully returned from the lander earlier in the day. Studying the initial findings from the new "Snow White 2" trench, located to the right of "Snow White 1," Ray Arvidson of Washington University in St. Louis, co-investigator for the robotic arm, said, "We have dug a trench and uncovered a hard layer at the same depth as the ice layer in our other trench." On Sol 24, Phoenix extended the first trench in the middle of a polygon at the "Wonderland" site. While digging, the Robotic Arm came upon a firm layer, and after three attempts to dig further, the arm went into a holding position. Such an action is expected when the Robotic Arm comes upon a hard surface. Meanwhile, the spacecraft team at Lockheed Martin Space Systems in Denver is preparing a software patch to send to Phoenix in a few days so scientific data can again be saved onboard overnight when needed. Because of a large amount a duplicative file-maintenance data generated by the spacecraft Tuesday, the team is taking the precaution of not storing science data in Phoenix's flash memory, and instead downlinking it at the end of every day, until the conditions that produced those duplicative data files are corrected. "We now understand what happened, and we can fix it with a software patch," said Phoenix Project Manager Barry Goldstein of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena. "Our three-month schedule has 30 days of margin for contingencies like this, and we have used only one contingency day out of 24 sols. The mission is well ahead of schedule. We are making excellent progress toward full mission success." The Phoenix mission is led by Smith of the UA with project management at JPL and development partnership at Lockheed Martin, located in Denver. International contributions come from the Canadian Space Agency; the University of Neuchatel, Switzerland; the universities of Copenhagen and Aarhus, Denmark; Max Planck Institute, Germany; and the Finnish Meteorological Institute. LINKS: http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu http://www.nasa.gov/phoenix CONTACTS: Sara Hammond, University of Arizona, Tucson (520-626-1974; shammond at lpl.arizona.edu) Guy Webster, Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. (818-354-6278; guy.webster at jpl.nasa.gov) Dwayne Brown, NASA Headquarters, Washington (202-358-1726; dwayne.c.brown at nasa.gov) From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Thu Jun 19 20:56:19 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 17:56:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Scientists Confirm That Parts of Earliest Genetic Material May Have Come from the Stars (Murchison Meteorite) Message-ID: <200806200056.RAA25466@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> Imperial College London London, U.K. Contact: Colin Smith Press Officer, Imperial College London Tel: +44 (0)207 594 6712 Dr Zita Martins Department of Earth Science and Engineering South Kensington Campus Imperial College London London SW7 2AZ, UK Tel: +44 (0)20 7594 9982 Fax: +44 (0)20 7594 7444 http://www.imperial.ac.uk/people/z.martins For Immediate Release: Friday 13 June 2008 Scientists confirm that parts of earliest genetic material may have come from the stars Scientists have confirmed for the first time that an important component of early genetic material which has been found in meteorite fragments is extraterrestrial in origin, in a paper published on 15 June 2008. The finding suggests that parts of the raw materials to make the first molecules of DNA and RNA may have come from the stars. The scientists, from Europe and the USA, say that their research, published in the journal Earth and Planetary Science Letters, provides evidence that life's raw materials came from sources beyond the Earth. The materials they have found include the molecules uracil and xanthine, which are precursors to the molecules that make up DNA and RNA, and are known as nucleobases. The team discovered the molecules in rock fragments of the Murchison meteorite, which crashed in Australia in 1969. They tested the meteorite material to determine whether the molecules came from the solar system or were a result of contamination when the meteorite landed on Earth. The analysis shows that the nucleobases contain a heavy form of carbon which could only have been formed in space. Materials formed on Earth consist of a lighter variety of carbon. Lead author Dr Zita Martins, of the Department of Earth Science and Engineering at Imperial College London, says that the research may provide another piece of evidence explaining the evolution of early life. She says: "We believe early life may have adopted nucleobases from meteoritic fragments for use in genetic coding which enabled them to pass on their successful features to subsequent generations." Between 3.8 to 4.5 billion years ago large numbers of rocks similar to the Murchison meteorite rained down on Earth at the time when primitive life was forming. The heavy bombardment would have dropped large amounts of meteorite material to the surface on planets like Earth and Mars. Co-author Professor Mark Sephton, also of Imperial's Department of Earth Science and Engineering, believes this research is an important step in understanding how early life might have evolved. He added: "Because meteorites represent left over materials from the formation of the solar system, the key components for life -- including nucleobases -- could be widespread in the cosmos. As more and more of life's raw materials are discovered in objects from space, the possibility of life springing forth wherever the right chemistry is present becomes more likely." -Ends- Notes to editors: 1. "Extraterrestrial nucleobases in the Murchison meteorite", Earth and Planetary Science Letters, Sunday 15 June 2008 (Print publication) Zita Martins (1,2), Oliver Botta (3,4,5), Marilyn L. Fogel (6), Mark A. Sephton (2), Daniel P. Glavin (3), Jonathan S. Watson (7), Jason P. Dworkin (3), Alan W. Schwartz (8), Pascale Ehrenfreund (1,3) (1) Astrobiology Laboratory, Leiden Institute of Chemistry, 2300 RA Leiden, The Netherlands (2) Department of Earth Science and Engineering, Imperial College, London, SW7 2AZ, UK (3) NASA Goddard Space Flight Center, Code 699, Greenbelt, MD 20771, USA (4) Goddard Earth Sciences and Technology Center, University of Maryland Baltimore, County, Baltimore, MD 21228, USA (5) International Space Science Institute, Hallerstrasse 6, 3012 Bern, Switzerland (6) GL, Carnegie Institution of Washington, Washington, DC 20015, USA (7) Planetary and Space Sciences Research Institute, The Open University, Walton Hall, Milton Keynes, MK7 6AA, UK (8) Radboud University Nijmegen, 6525 ED, Nijmegen,The Netherlands A full copy of the research can be downloaded at: http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.epsl.2008.03.026 2. About Imperial College London Imperial College London -- rated the world's fifth best university in the 2007 Times Higher Education Supplement University Rankings -- is a science-based institution with a reputation for excellence in teaching and research that attracts 12,000 students and 6,000 staff of the highest international quality. Innovative research at the College explores the interface between science, medicine, engineering and business, delivering practical solutions that improve quality of life and the environment -- underpinned by a dynamic enterprise culture. Website: www.imperial.ac.uk From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Thu Jun 19 20:59:37 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 17:59:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Lavas from Hawaiian Volcano Contain Fingerprint of Planetary Formation Message-ID: <200806200059.RAA26592@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> News Office University of Chicago Chicago, Illinois MEDIA CONTACT: Steve Koppes, 773-702-8366 June 19, 2008 Lavas from Hawaiian volcano contain fingerprint of planetary formation Hikers visiting the Kilauea Iki crater in Hawaii today walk along a mostly flat surface of sparsely vegetated basalt. It looks like parking lot asphalt, but in November and December 1959, it emitted the orange glow of newly erupted lava. Now, a precision analysis of lava samples taken from the crater is giving scientists a new tool for reconstructing planetary origins. The results of the analysis, by the University of Chicago's Nicolas Dauphas and his associates, will be published in the June 20 issue of the journal Science. A close examination of iron isotopes -- the slight variations the element displays at the subatomic level -- can tell planetary scientists more about the formation of crust than they previously thought, according to Dauphas and co-authors Fang-Zhen Teng of the University of Arkansas and Rosalind T. Helz of the U.S. Geological Survey. If applied to a variety of terrestrial and extraterrestrial basalts, including meteorites from Mars and the asteroids, the method could provide more definitive evidence for a scientifically popular idea that the moon was born from a giant collision between Earth and another large object, Dauphas said. As the lava in Kilauea Iki crater cooled and solidified, the content of its iron isotopes evolved with time. "A good analogy is putting a bucket of salty water in your freezer and monitoring what happens to the salt concentration in the water as the ice forms," Dauphas said. The finding contradicts the widely held view that isotopic variations occur only at relatively low temperatures, and only in lighter elements, such as oxygen. But Dauphas and his associates were able to measure isotopic variations as they occur in magma at temperatures of 1,100 degrees Celsius (2,012 degrees Fahrenheit). Previous studies of basalt found little or no separation of iron isotopes, but those studies focused on the rock as a whole, rather than its individual minerals. "We analyzed not only the whole rocks, but the separate minerals," Teng said. In particular, they analyzed olivine crystals, better known as peridot in the jewelry world. The June 20 Science article is the first publication based on data collected and analyzed with the help of a new instrument in Dauphas's Origins Laboratory. The instrument, a plasma source mass spectrometer funded by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration and the University of Chicago, separates ions (charged particles) according to their masses. These ions are formed in a plasma of argon gas within the instrument at a temperature of nearly 14,000 degrees Fahrenheit (8,000 degrees Kelvin, hotter than the sun's surface). Isotopic studies have a long history at the University of Chicago. Harold Urey, who received the 1934 Nobel Prize in chemistry, established the principles governing isotopic variations as a faculty member at Chicago in the 1940s and 1950s, Dauphas said. The researchers selected Kilauea Iki for their study because scientists have drilled it for samples multiple times as it cooled over the years. This sequence of samples makes the lava lake a perfect site for studying differentiation -- the separation of minerals and elements as magma cools and hardens. "Our work opens up exciting avenues of research," Dauphas said. "We can now use iron isotopes as fingerprints of magma formation and differentiation, which played a role in the formation of continents." From ensoramanda at ntlworld.com Thu Jun 19 21:25:00 2008 From: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com (ensoramanda) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 02:25:00 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ivuna at the NHM Message-ID: <485B06EC.8010704@ntlworld.com> Hi All Ivuna in the news, http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7464583.stm Graham Ensor ,UK From michael at spacerocksinc.com Thu Jun 19 22:37:27 2008 From: michael at spacerocksinc.com (Michael Johnson) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 19:37:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 20, 2008 Message-ID: <27092656.330131213929447672.JavaMail.root@mbs6.homesteadmail.com> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/June_20_2008.html From cynapse at charter.net Thu Jun 19 23:44:18 2008 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 23:44:18 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Higher than expected levels of sodium ... suggest that the dust clouds from which the building blocks of the Earth and neighboring planets formed were much denser than previously supposed. In-Reply-To: <646194.17761.qm@web57801.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <646194.17761.qm@web57801.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/06/080619142124.htm Chemical Clues Point To Dusty Origin For Earth-like Planets ScienceDaily (June 20, 2008) ? Higher than expected levels of sodium found in a 4.6 billion-year-old meteorite suggest that the dust clouds from which the building blocks of the Earth and neighboring planets formed were much denser than previously supposed. The study, by scientists from the Carnegie Institution, American Museum of Natural History, and U.S. Geological Survey, is published in the June 20 issue of Science. Conel Alexander and Fred Ciesla of the Carnegie Institution's Department of Terrestrial Magnetism, with colleagues Jeffrey Grossman of the U.S. Geological Survey and Denton Ebel of the American Museum of Natural History, analyzed the sodium content of grains in objects called "chondrules" from the Semarkona meteorite, which fell in India in 1940. The Semarkona meteorite, like all other chondrule-bearing meteorites (known as chondrites), dates from the early stages of the solar system's formation. Unlike most others, however, its constituents have been relatively unaltered by heat and chemical changes over the more than four billion years since its origin, making it an important window into the early history of the solar system. Chondrules, which make up 20 to 80% of the volume of chondrites, are round, roughly millimeter-sized objects made of glass and crystals. Chondrules are thought to have formed by flash heating of dust in the primordial solar system. From the types of minerals found in chondrules, scientists have determined that they formed at temperatures of up to nearly 2,000? C (3600? F). The source of this high heat, which would have affected vast areas of dust, is unknown. The heat would also be expected to have boiled off many of the volatile chemical elements, such as sodium, leaving the chondrules depleted in these elements. But the chemical analyses by the research team found that the Semarkona chondrules had surprisingly high sodium abundances when they formed, indicating that sodium was not driven off. Rather, it remained at nearly constant levels during chondrule formation. "Chondrules formed as molten droplets produced by what was probably one of the most energetic processes that operated in the early solar system," says Alexander. "You would expect all the sodium to evaporate and be lost from the chondrules under such conditions. Instead, the sodium was retained. The chondrules stayed as effectively closed systems throughout the heating and melting." The researchers determined that in order for the molten droplets that formed the chondrules to remain as closed systems and retain constant levels of sodium, the initial dust cloud must have been far denser than previously supposed. "If the droplets were crowded close enough together, then the sodium vapor in the spaces in between would reach a saturation point," says Alexander, "and that would prevent further evaporation." To achieve this condition, the density of dust in the chondrule-forming regions of the early solar system must have been at least about 10 grams per cubic meter, and possibly much more. This is at least 100 times the densities considered by previous models of chondrule formation, which had assumed at most densities of only about 0.1 grams per cubic meter, and normally considerably less. At densities of 10 grams per cubic meter or more, regions only a few thousand kilometers across, small by astronomical standards, could collapse under their own gravity to make objects that would be 10s of kilometers across. "What's notable about this result is that it raises the possibility that the formation of chondrules in these high-density regions was linked to the formation of kilometer-sized objects called planetesimals, which were the first stage in building Earth-like planets," says Alexander. "It will also help narrow down the possibilities for the cause of the heating that produced the chondrules, as well as the sizes of the regions where they formed. Heating chondrules to their peak temperatures and then quickly cooling them down when they are present at such high densities is a significant challenge for any mechanism proposed to explain chondrule origin. These tiny objects still have a lot to tell us about how our solar system took shape." This research was supported by the Carnegie Institution, the NASA Origins of Solar Systems Program, and the NASA Cosmochemistry Program. From meteoritemall at yahoo.com Fri Jun 20 00:08:55 2008 From: meteoritemall at yahoo.com (Ruben Garcia) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 21:08:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] California Meteorite Discovery Video with Jim Kriegh. Message-ID: <276131.90800.qm@web32502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi all, In this short video my son Ruben Garcia Jr. and I find nearly 20 pounds of chondrite meteorites in a desolate California desert! For those of you that knew Jim Kriegh, I was proud to have invited him along with us - it turned out to be his very last meteorite hunt. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPEbHduUtZ0 Ruben Garcia Phoenix, Arizona http://www.mr-meteorite.com From ohtsuka at jb3.so-net.ne.jp Fri Jun 20 10:02:06 2008 From: ohtsuka at jb3.so-net.ne.jp (ohtsuka at jb3.so-net.ne.jp) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 23:02:06 +0900 (JST) Subject: [meteorite-list] =?iso-2022-jp?b?Q2FyYW5jYXMgcGFwZXI=?= Message-ID: <200806201402.m5KE26eK015360@mx56.ms.so-net.ne.jp> Dear Starling and all, Thank you for your response. I agree to your opinion. However, their computational results are correct if their (frangment) model is true. Anyway, you'd better send your comment to the authors. The Carancas session will be held in ACM 2008, Baltimore, July 15. The link is below: http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/acm2008/pdf/sess305.pdf Does anyone in the list have a plan to attend this session? best, Kastu OHTSUKA Tokyo, JAPAN From pshugar at clearwire.net Fri Jun 20 11:43:38 2008 From: pshugar at clearwire.net (Pete Shugar) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 10:43:38 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Continuing education Message-ID: <001b01c8d2ec$6a0b0100$0201a8c0@laptop> Can someone please define for me the two terms: friable and slickensides? Thanks, Pete From info at tektiteinc.com Fri Jun 20 11:45:18 2008 From: info at tektiteinc.com (info at tektiteinc.com) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 10:45:18 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Australite Hunting Pictures and eBay AD Message-ID: <38826.127.0.0.1.1213976718.squirrel@srv08.ezyreg.com> Hello all, Please see the link below for some nice pictures of hunting for Australites in the Western Australian Gold fields. http://tektiteinc.com under the Perth Museum link. Aubrey Whymark recently acquired an Australite collection from a Western Australian prospector and these pictures show where most of his Australites were found. Please contact Aubrey if you would like a copy of these pictures or purchase some of his Tektites. He recently bought 120 kilograms of Rizalites off me so please give him a buzz if you?re interested. His website link is below. http://www.tektites.co.uk/index.html Please also see my offerings on eBay! Thanks and enjoy the pictures. Cheers, Desmond Leong IMCA #2254 http://www.TektiteInc.com http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZtektiteinc-dot-com From lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu Fri Jun 20 12:04:39 2008 From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu (lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 09:04:39 -0700 (MST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Call for Articles for the November issue of Meteorite magazine In-Reply-To: <52310.71.226.60.25.1206496444.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> References: <1791.71.226.60.25.1199576110.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> <52310.71.226.60.25.1206496444.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> Message-ID: <56987.71.226.60.25.1213977879.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> Hello Everyone: Happy Summer Solstice! We hope that you enjoyed the May issue of Meteorite. We have just finished editing the August issue. The articles that are in the queue are all very interesting and I am sure you will enjoy them. Some articles are from long-time authors and others are from first or second time authors. Now, guess what? Yes, it is that time again! It is time to start thinking about writing an article for the November issue of Meteorite. The next deadline is August 18. Just in time to tell us about your summer meteorite hunts, your summer reading (a book review), etc. There are a number of you who "put off" submitting articles, so I will be getting back to you very soon. Articles can be anywhere from about 1,000 words up to 2,500 words (or a little longer) with 4 or 5 pictures. A good picture might even make it to the cover! We also welcome book reviews and letters to the editors. Please consider writing an article. If you are not sure, contact us! We hope to hear from you soon. Larry and Nancy Lebofsky Editors, Meteorite magazine From cynapse at charter.net Fri Jun 20 12:29:14 2008 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 12:29:14 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Continuing education In-Reply-To: <001b01c8d2ec$6a0b0100$0201a8c0@laptop> References: <001b01c8d2ec$6a0b0100$0201a8c0@laptop> Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 10:43:38 -0500, you wrote: >Can someone please define for me the two terms: friable and slickensides? Friable-- capable of being fried-- a category heavily represented in Western breakfast foods. Or, if you believe this wikipedia crap: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friability Also, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slickenside (the lesson of the day-- google and wikipedia are your friends) From chinaren76 at yahoo.com Fri Jun 20 14:30:42 2008 From: chinaren76 at yahoo.com (Ma Lan) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 11:30:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Juancheng for sale Message-ID: <511018.54015.qm@web52709.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi listee, Now i have 8 pieces of Juancheng weighting from 14.4g to 168.3g for sale: 5 pieces weighting 14.4g, 22.8g, 26.8g, 28.2g 48.2g respectively, 99-100% FC, individuals, sell for $4/g; 3 pieces weighting 146.3g, 157.0g, 168.3g respectively, 2 with nearly 98% FC, one fragment with around 60% FC, sell for $3.5/g. If you want to buy one piece of them, plz tell me its weight; if you want to buy all the stones (the 8 pieces totally weighting 612g or so), i will offer you a price at $3/g. For photos of these stones, plz contact me off-list. Best wishes to all Ma Lan Beijing China IMCA# 8234 From bristolia at yahoo.com Fri Jun 20 15:03:01 2008 From: bristolia at yahoo.com (Paul) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 12:03:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] New Paper About Chondrule and Chondrite Formation Message-ID: <764349.60153.qm@web36203.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In the June 20, 2008 issue of Science there is a paper about the formation of Chondrules and Chondrites. It is: Alexander, C. M. O'D., J. N. Grossman, D. S. Ebel, and F. J. Ciesla, 2008, The Formation Conditions of Chondrules and Chondrites. Science. vol.. 320, no. 5883, pp. 1617-1619. DOI: 10.1126/science.1156561 http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/320/5883/1617 Yours, Paul H. From eric at meteoritewatch.com Fri Jun 20 16:54:06 2008 From: eric at meteoritewatch.com (Eric Wichman) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 13:54:06 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Reserve Price for 3851g Thumbprinted NWA NICE! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <485C18EE.7040608@meteoritewatch.com> Hi All, I've received countless emails asking me what the reserve price is on this auction. So I figured why not let everyone know. The reserve is $499. As of this email, the current price is only at $405, only $94 away from the reserve. If this meteorite sells for only $499, which I highly doubt, as it will probably go for $600+, someone will get an excellent deal on a great meteorite either way. This is a very nice collectors piece! Even at $600 it's only .16/g for this BIG BEAUTY. SUPER WONDERFUL FANTABULOUSLY GORGEOUS THUMBPRINTED FUSION CRUSTED BEAUTY - Starting @ .99 cents http://cgi.ebay.com/Special-3851g-Huge-NWA-XXX-CHONDRITE-METEORITE-AWESOME_W0QQitemZ250260289396 Don't forget to check out all the other auction deals I have up this week as well. http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZfreel3orn Talk to you guys soon... Good Luck & Happy Bidding! Regards, Eric Wichman MeteoritesUSA MeteoriteWatch From mexicodoug at aim.com Fri Jun 20 16:55:44 2008 From: mexicodoug at aim.com (mexicodoug at aim.com) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 16:55:44 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: closing in a few hours Message-ID: <8CAA12F248E4561-D10-190A@webmail-md17.sysops.aol.com> Dear list, The Solstices have always had an incredible air of mystique for me, and this time around has me a bit nostalgic so I'd like to share this message. The 2008 Summer Solstice (unless you are down under) will be happening in a few hours and Summer will officially begin. The time is almost exactly 11:59PM Universal Time Time Summer begins at: Countdown clock: http://tinyurl.com/48558e Time at different world locations: http://tinyurl.com/3sctme At this time, somewhere, in a seemingly random place, on earth, the most northern outpost of the Tropics will experience a truly tropical Sun (and the one day the Southernmost points under an Arctic Sun won't have a Sunset). The Northern outpost, or rough limit, also known as the Tropic of Cancer, is that unique latitude where at only one point in the circumference of the Earth, on this one day, the Sun will manage to be directly overhead at only one instant when the solstice coincides with the Sun at the Zenith at that location. Anywhere further north, and this never happens (not considering longer term variation in the Tropic's location from wobble). And further South, it happens all the time in the tropics more than once. Interestingly, the zodiac has managed to get screwed up as Earth has wobbled, and the Tropic of Cancer really is the Tropic of Taurus, since the Sun is no longer in Cancer, but now in Taurus on this date. But all that aside, I have always dreamed each year for as long as I can remember, at least since grade school, of being on the Tropic of Cancer with an empty round oatmeal container a long stick at this special moment when no shadows are cast. The idea has always been just to see this quirk of Earth first hand with the original tools I first imagined measuring this with, a sort of astronomical pilgrimage that anyone could do once in a lifetime. But, the Tropic of Cancer is quite long, close to 37,000 kilometers long. So the problem has always reduced to finding the one place on Earth (the longitude for the year) where the Sun will truly be overhead at 90 degrees - directly at the zenith. Well, this year, that actually occurs in just west of Hawaiin open ocean, about 560 kilometers south of Green Island, a tiny atoll island which has the distinction of being - as a happy coincidence - the World's most northernmost barrier reef. No, I won't be going this year :( and being marooned in the open Pacific around there has not been fun for historical mariners. But for anyone in the area, it will be 13 kilometers south and 1500 km due west of the Necker Hawaiian Island, close to the longitude, 179 degrees 20 min. At the miraculous moment shadows will not be elongated by the most minute bit, and the Sun will be ... HOT! Interesting that due to somewhat both to leap year and the the very late hour 23:59 UT, this will be the earliest Summer in over a century (I think), and on June 20 (well, the Brits made it June 21 with Daylight Savings time, but DST shouldn't count in the Sun-centered world...so it's not anyone's fault) Anyway, these are my not especially practical mullings, but still, the dream of a lifetime. A 90 degree Sun can be had many times through the year, for example, in tropical Mexican locations, but not when the Sun is at the tip of the Analemma, and the way I see it, THE TIMING for this [and just about everything else] is what's exciting for such a pilgrimage, TIMING IS EVERYTHING. And the difference from an 89 degree Sun and 90 would be rather hard to tell, but imo not have this mystical feeling of ancient astronomers, from the builders of Stonehenge and great pyramids, to Fatipur Sikri, to the Incas and Mayas. I'd like to organize a trip just once, one of these years, when the event happens at a practical location to visit! This is not really an ad, though the Sun will be doing a bit of Spring Cleaning, not a drop of Spring is left... Best wishes, and bright skies this once in a while, Doug (where the Sun just relaxed from 2.2 degrees off the zenith). From grf2 at verizon.net Fri Jun 20 17:12:39 2008 From: grf2 at verizon.net (Jerry) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 17:12:39 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Scientists Confirm That Parts of Earliest GeneticMaterial May Have Come from the Stars (Murchison Meteorite) In-Reply-To: <200806200056.RAA25466@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> References: <200806200056.RAA25466@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> Message-ID: "We are stardust We are golden We are billion year old carbon And we've got to get ourselves back to the garden" 1969, CS&N[and genesis too, I believe] Jerry Flaherty ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Baalke" To: "Meteorite Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 8:56 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Scientists Confirm That Parts of Earliest GeneticMaterial May Have Come from the Stars (Murchison Meteorite) > > > Imperial College London > London, U.K. > > Contact: > > Colin Smith > Press Officer, Imperial College London > Tel: +44 (0)207 594 6712 > > Dr Zita Martins > Department of Earth Science and Engineering > South Kensington Campus > Imperial College London > London SW7 2AZ, UK > Tel: +44 (0)20 7594 9982 > Fax: +44 (0)20 7594 7444 > http://www.imperial.ac.uk/people/z.martins > > For Immediate Release: Friday 13 June 2008 > > Scientists confirm that parts of earliest genetic material may have come > from the stars > > Scientists have confirmed for the first time that an important component > of > early genetic material which has been found in meteorite fragments is > extraterrestrial in origin, in a paper published on 15 June 2008. > > The finding suggests that parts of the raw materials to make the first > molecules of DNA and RNA may have come from the stars. > > The scientists, from Europe and the USA, say that their research, > published > in the journal Earth and Planetary Science Letters, provides evidence that > life's raw materials came from sources beyond the Earth. > > The materials they have found include the molecules uracil and xanthine, > which are precursors to the molecules that make up DNA and RNA, and are > known as nucleobases. > > The team discovered the molecules in rock fragments of the Murchison > meteorite, which crashed in Australia in 1969. > > They tested the meteorite material to determine whether the molecules came > from the solar system or were a result of contamination when the meteorite > landed on Earth. > > The analysis shows that the nucleobases contain a heavy form of carbon > which > could only have been formed in space. Materials formed on Earth consist of > a > lighter variety of carbon. > > Lead author Dr Zita Martins, of the Department of Earth Science and > Engineering at Imperial College London, says that the research may provide > another piece of evidence explaining the evolution of early life. She > says: > "We believe early life may have adopted nucleobases from meteoritic > fragments for use in genetic coding which enabled them to pass on their > successful features to subsequent generations." > > Between 3.8 to 4.5 billion years ago large numbers of rocks similar to the > Murchison meteorite rained down on Earth at the time when primitive life > was > forming. The heavy bombardment would have dropped large amounts of > meteorite > material to the surface on planets like Earth and Mars. > > Co-author Professor Mark Sephton, also of Imperial's Department of Earth > Science and Engineering, believes this research is an important step in > understanding how early life might have evolved. He added: "Because > meteorites represent left over materials from the formation of the solar > system, the key components for life -- including nucleobases -- could be > widespread in the cosmos. As more and more of life's raw materials are > discovered in objects from space, the possibility of life springing forth > wherever the right chemistry is present becomes more likely." > > -Ends- > > Notes to editors: > > 1. "Extraterrestrial nucleobases in the Murchison meteorite", Earth and > Planetary Science Letters, Sunday 15 June 2008 (Print publication) > Zita Martins (1,2), Oliver Botta (3,4,5), Marilyn L. Fogel (6), Mark A. > Sephton (2), Daniel P. Glavin > (3), Jonathan S. Watson (7), Jason P. Dworkin (3), Alan W. Schwartz (8), > Pascale Ehrenfreund (1,3) > > (1) Astrobiology Laboratory, Leiden Institute of Chemistry, 2300 RA > Leiden, > The Netherlands > (2) Department of Earth Science and Engineering, Imperial College, London, > SW7 2AZ, UK > (3) NASA Goddard Space Flight Center, Code 699, Greenbelt, MD 20771, USA > (4) Goddard Earth Sciences and Technology Center, University of Maryland > Baltimore, County, Baltimore, MD 21228, USA > (5) International Space Science Institute, Hallerstrasse 6, 3012 Bern, > Switzerland > (6) GL, Carnegie Institution of Washington, Washington, DC 20015, USA > (7) Planetary and Space Sciences Research Institute, The Open University, > Walton Hall, Milton Keynes, MK7 6AA, UK > (8) Radboud University Nijmegen, 6525 ED, Nijmegen,The Netherlands > > A full copy of the research can be downloaded at: > http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.epsl.2008.03.026 > > 2. About Imperial College London > > Imperial College London -- rated the world's fifth best university in the > 2007 Times Higher Education Supplement University Rankings -- is a > science-based institution with a reputation for excellence in teaching and > research that attracts 12,000 students and 6,000 staff of the highest > international quality. > > Innovative research at the College explores the interface between science, > medicine, engineering and business, delivering practical solutions that > improve quality of life and the environment -- underpinned by a dynamic > enterprise culture. Website: www.imperial.ac.uk > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com Fri Jun 20 17:46:45 2008 From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 14:46:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] trade offer/allende Message-ID: <567765.69290.qm@web57815.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi all.I have a 113 gram slice of ALLENDE for trade if interested.I am looking for either estherville or nice oriented thumbprinted stone.Unclassified is always nice.Let me know offlist.Pics on my homepage of my website. Steve R.Arnold,chicago,Ill,Usa!! ???? The Asteroid Belt! ??? http://chicagometeorites.net/ ??? Collecting Meteorites since 06/19/1999 ??? Ebay I.D. Illinoismeteorites From psc2410xi at yahoo.com Fri Jun 20 19:14:26 2008 From: psc2410xi at yahoo.com (Don Rawlings) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 16:14:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] trade offer/allende In-Reply-To: <567765.69290.qm@web57815.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <565371.68979.qm@web59315.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Steve, Didn't you just get that? Did you even bother to unpack it when you got it? Don Rawlings --- On Fri, 6/20/08, steve arnold wrote: > From: steve arnold > Subject: [meteorite-list] trade offer/allende > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Friday, June 20, 2008, 5:46 PM > Hi all.I have a 113 gram slice of ALLENDE for trade if > interested.I am looking for either estherville or nice > oriented thumbprinted stone.Unclassified is always nice.Let > me know offlist.Pics on my homepage of my website. > > Steve R.Arnold,chicago,Ill,Usa!! ???? The Asteroid > Belt! ??? http://chicagometeorites.net/ ??? > Collecting Meteorites since 06/19/1999 ??? Ebay I.D. > Illinoismeteorites > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Fri Jun 20 21:55:28 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 18:55:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA Phoenix Mars Lander Confirms Frozen Water Message-ID: <200806210155.SAA16842@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2008-113a NASA Phoenix Mars Lander Confirms Frozen Water Jet Propulsion Laboratory June 20, 2008 TUCSON, Ariz. -- Scientists relishing confirmation of water ice near the surface beside NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander anticipate even bigger discoveries from the robotic mission in the weeks ahead. "It is with great pride and a lot of joy that I announce today that we have found proof that this hard bright material is really water ice and not some other substance," said Phoenix Principal Investigator Peter Smith of the University of Arizona, Tucson, during a Friday news briefing to announce the confirmation of water ice. "The truth we're looking for is not just looking at ice. It is in finding out the minerals, chemicals and hopefully the organic materials associated with these discoveries," said Smith The mission has the right instruments for analyzing soil and ice to determine whether the local environment just below the surface of far-northern Mars has ever been favorable for microbial life. Key factors are whether the water ever becomes available as a liquid and whether organic compounds are present that could provide chemical building blocks and energy for life. Phoenix landed on May 25 for a Mars surface mission planned to last for three months. "These latest developments are a major accomplishment and validation of the Mars Program's 'follow-the-water' exploration framework," said Doug McCuistion at NASA Headquarters, Washington, director of the space agency's Mars Program. "This specific discovery is the result of an outstanding team working with a robust spacecraft that has allowed them to work ahead of their original science schedule." The key new evidence is that chunks of bright material exposed by digging on June 15 and still present on June 16 had vaporized by June 19. "This tells us we've got water ice within reach of the arm, which means we can continue this investigation with the tools we brought with us," said Mark Lemmon of Texas A&M University, College Station, lead scientist for Phoenix's Surface Stereo Imager camera. He said the disappearing chunks could not have been carbon-dioxide ice at the local temperatures because that material would not have been stable for even one day as a solid. The disappearing chunks were in a trench to the northwest of the lander. A hard material, possibly more ice, but darker than the bright material in the first trench, has been detected in a second trench, to the northeast of the lander. Scientists plan next to have Phoenix collect and analyze surface soil from a third trench near the second one, and later to mechanically probe and sample the hard layer. "We have in our ice-attack arsenal backhoeing, scraping and rasping, and we'll try all of these," said Ray Arvidson of Washington University in St. Louis, lead scientist for Phoenix's Robotic Arm. Phoenix Project Manager Barry Goldstein of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, reported that an issue reported earlier this week related to producing thousands of duplicate copies of some file-maintenance data files has been diagnosed, and a corrective software patch will be sent to Phoenix within a few days. Science operations continue in the meantime, though all data collected must be relayed to Earth on the same Martian day it is collected, instead of being stored to non-volatile memory when Phoenix powers down to conserve energy during the Martian night. Images sent back Friday morning from Mars showed that the doors to the Number 5 oven on the Thermal and Evolved-Gas Analyzer opened part way. The instrument team is working to understand the consequences of this action. The Phoenix mission is led by Smith of the University of Arizona with project management at JPL and development partnership at Lockheed Martin, located in Denver. International contributions come from the Canadian Space Agency; the University of Neuchatel, Switzerland; the universities of Copenhagen and Aarhus, Denmark; Max Planck Institute, Germany; and the Finnish Meteorological Institute. For more about Phoenix, visit: http://www.nasa.gov/phoenix and http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Media contacts: Guy Webster 818-354-6278 Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. guy.webster at jpl.nasa.gov Dwayne Brown 202-358-1726 NASA Headquarters, Washington dwayne.c.brown at nasa.gov Sara Hammond 520-626-1974 University of Arizona, Tucson shammond at lpl.arizona.edu From grf2 at verizon.net Fri Jun 20 22:45:41 2008 From: grf2 at verizon.net (Jerry) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 22:45:41 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] New Paper About Chondrule and Chondrite Formation In-Reply-To: <764349.60153.qm@web36203.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <764349.60153.qm@web36203.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: can someone tell me what the cost for layperson membership is and whether my money would be well spent? Jerry Flaherty ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul" To: Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 3:03 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] New Paper About Chondrule and Chondrite Formation > In the June 20, 2008 issue of Science there is a paper about > the formation of Chondrules and Chondrites. > > It is: > > Alexander, C. M. O'D., J. N. Grossman, D. S. Ebel, and F. J. Ciesla, > 2008, The Formation Conditions of Chondrules and Chondrites. > Science. vol.. 320, no. 5883, pp. 1617-1619. > DOI: 10.1126/science.1156561 > > http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/320/5883/1617 > > Yours, > > Paul H. > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From grf2 at verizon.net Fri Jun 20 23:04:20 2008 From: grf2 at verizon.net (Jerry) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 23:04:20 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Higher than expected levels of sodium ... suggestthat the dust clouds from which the building blocks of the Earth and neighboring planets formed were much denser than previously supposed. In-Reply-To: References: <646194.17761.qm@web57801.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <73B98DDDFEC6464A9D0516C34FD51FCD@Notebook> Thanks again Darren for saving me some money. Jerry Flaherty ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darren Garrison" To: Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 11:44 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Higher than expected levels of sodium ... suggestthat the dust clouds from which the building blocks of the Earth and neighboring planets formed were much denser than previously supposed. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/06/080619142124.htm Chemical Clues Point To Dusty Origin For Earth-like Planets ScienceDaily (June 20, 2008) - Higher than expected levels of sodium found in a 4.6 billion-year-old meteorite suggest that the dust clouds from which the building blocks of the Earth and neighboring planets formed were much denser than previously supposed. The study, by scientists from the Carnegie Institution, American Museum of Natural History, and U.S. Geological Survey, is published in the June 20 issue of Science. Conel Alexander and Fred Ciesla of the Carnegie Institution's Department of Terrestrial Magnetism, with colleagues Jeffrey Grossman of the U.S. Geological Survey and Denton Ebel of the American Museum of Natural History, analyzed the sodium content of grains in objects called "chondrules" from the Semarkona meteorite, which fell in India in 1940. The Semarkona meteorite, like all other chondrule-bearing meteorites (known as chondrites), dates from the early stages of the solar system's formation. Unlike most others, however, its constituents have been relatively unaltered by heat and chemical changes over the more than four billion years since its origin, making it an important window into the early history of the solar system. Chondrules, which make up 20 to 80% of the volume of chondrites, are round, roughly millimeter-sized objects made of glass and crystals. Chondrules are thought to have formed by flash heating of dust in the primordial solar system. >From the types of minerals found in chondrules, scientists have determined >that they formed at temperatures of up to nearly 2,000? C (3600? F). The source of this high heat, which would have affected vast areas of dust, is unknown. The heat would also be expected to have boiled off many of the volatile chemical elements, such as sodium, leaving the chondrules depleted in these elements. But the chemical analyses by the research team found that the Semarkona chondrules had surprisingly high sodium abundances when they formed, indicating that sodium was not driven off. Rather, it remained at nearly constant levels during chondrule formation. "Chondrules formed as molten droplets produced by what was probably one of the most energetic processes that operated in the early solar system," says Alexander. "You would expect all the sodium to evaporate and be lost from the chondrules under such conditions. Instead, the sodium was retained. The chondrules stayed as effectively closed systems throughout the heating and melting." The researchers determined that in order for the molten droplets that formed the chondrules to remain as closed systems and retain constant levels of sodium, the initial dust cloud must have been far denser than previously supposed. "If the droplets were crowded close enough together, then the sodium vapor in the spaces in between would reach a saturation point," says Alexander, "and that would prevent further evaporation." To achieve this condition, the density of dust in the chondrule-forming regions of the early solar system must have been at least about 10 grams per cubic meter, and possibly much more. This is at least 100 times the densities considered by previous models of chondrule formation, which had assumed at most densities of only about 0.1 grams per cubic meter, and normally considerably less. At densities of 10 grams per cubic meter or more, regions only a few thousand kilometers across, small by astronomical standards, could collapse under their own gravity to make objects that would be 10s of kilometers across. "What's notable about this result is that it raises the possibility that the formation of chondrules in these high-density regions was linked to the formation of kilometer-sized objects called planetesimals, which were the first stage in building Earth-like planets," says Alexander. "It will also help narrow down the possibilities for the cause of the heating that produced the chondrules, as well as the sizes of the regions where they formed. Heating chondrules to their peak temperatures and then quickly cooling them down when they are present at such high densities is a significant challenge for any mechanism proposed to explain chondrule origin. These tiny objects still have a lot to tell us about how our solar system took shape." This research was supported by the Carnegie Institution, the NASA Origins of Solar Systems Program, and the NASA Cosmochemistry Program. ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From michael at spacerocksinc.com Sat Jun 21 07:33:50 2008 From: michael at spacerocksinc.com (Michael Johnson) Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 04:33:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 21, 2008 Message-ID: <20130871.461381214048030647.JavaMail.root@mbs6.homesteadmail.com> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/June_21_2008.html From mlblood at cox.net Sat Jun 21 08:33:28 2008 From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael L Blood) Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 05:33:28 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Space Art (& meteorite impact - AD) In-Reply-To: <20130871.461381214048030647.JavaMail.root@mbs6.homesteadmail.com> Message-ID: http://michaelbloodmeteorites.com/JerryArmstrong.html Hi all, I just got back from a really beautiful trip to GA. I stayed with Jerry Armstrong (who was an amazing host) and was able to visit Dave Gheesling and Anita Westlake's homes and see their terrific Collections. Anita's home is like a living museum virtually flowing Over with fascinating goodies - with an impressive hallway of Macromount sized meteorite specimens very handsomely displayed. Dave's, on the other hand, is only one room.... A room that knocks Your socks off. I have only been blown away by 3 private collections, And his was one of them. I will save descriptions for an article - it Deserves it. The reason I write today is that I heard someone on the list asked If there were any meteorite and/or space art "out there." Yes, grasshopper, There is: Jerry's work is renowned - appearing in several museums,on 3 book covers & Gracing the cover of Meteorite Magazine. He was entirely out of Circulation for several years following 3 heart attacks and bypass Surgeries. However, he is now "back in the game" and painting away. In fact, he is currently working on a depiction of the Campo fall! I Can't wait to see it. Meanwhile, he has a few originals still available as well as some Remarkable "copies" produced on canvas with an amazing process called Gilcee. You can read about this process and see most of his paintings at: http://michaelbloodmeteorites.com/JerryArmstrong.html Besides for these paintings, he will paint an original for you of any fall, astronomical phenomenon, paleolithic scene or anything you Like. His work is well worth seeing - click any photo for a larger image. Best wishes, Michael PS: I just got this up since my return yesterday and should have most Of the kinks worked out in the next day or so. From entropydave at ntlworld.com Sat Jun 21 09:17:00 2008 From: entropydave at ntlworld.com (Dave Harris) Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 14:17:00 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Tagish Lake prices Message-ID: <583CCDB5C0E046A999F226C9A2678DFD@pitstoppc> Hi folks, Just been trying to get a feel for the price per gram for TL - looking at pieces around 100mg - not to purchase but I have about 0.3g of the stuff and when I googled it I found it difficult to pin a price on it - I've seen it for $2 per milligram (which sounds very dear!) and Eric has none left on his site for me to get prices - I have bought some from Eric but I never keep a note of the prices (which maybe I should!) Ta! dave IMCA #0092 Sec.BIMS. www.bimsociety.org From rsvp321 at hotmail.com Sat Jun 21 10:42:13 2008 From: rsvp321 at hotmail.com (Pete Pete) Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 10:42:13 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] California Meteorite Discovery Video with Jim Kriegh. In-Reply-To: <276131.90800.qm@web32502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <276131.90800.qm@web32502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I had that same dream, many times! Very envious. Another great video. I'd be interested in the dimensions of the fall pattern. If it was as small as it appears in the video, would that be the result in a stone coming in very vertical? Is this a fresh fall discovered in grounds hunted in the past? I would also like to see or read about the description of the cut interior. And of the fusion crust. Thanks, Ruben. Cheers, Pete. ---------------------------------------- > Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 21:08:55 -0700 > From: meteoritemall at yahoo.com > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: [meteorite-list] California Meteorite Discovery Video with Jim Kriegh. > > Hi all, > In this short video my son Ruben Garcia Jr. and I find nearly 20 pounds of chondrite meteorites in a desolate California desert! For those of you that knew Jim Kriegh, I was proud to have invited him along with us - it turned out to be his very last meteorite hunt. > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPEbHduUtZ0 > > Ruben Garcia > Phoenix, Arizona > http://www.mr-meteorite.com > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _________________________________________________________________ From entropydave at ntlworld.com Sat Jun 21 10:58:06 2008 From: entropydave at ntlworld.com (Dave Harris) Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 15:58:06 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Thanks! Message-ID: <41D8BBF3698A4049B538EE3B5502342A@pitstoppc> You guys and gals are a mine of info! Got an idea now. Around $600 per gram - Seems not a bad price at all considering how weird and rare this stuff is! I should have bought more! Anyway- that's being greedy - it's well represented in my collection. The lesson here for me, folks, is to keep a log of the prices! Helps with insurance cover and so on... magic! dave IMCA #0092 Sec.BIMS. www.bimsociety.org From mpg444 at yahoo.com Sat Jun 21 11:48:11 2008 From: mpg444 at yahoo.com (Mike Groetz) Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 08:48:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] "Field Guide to Meteors and Meteorites" now Available Message-ID: <618404.18129.qm@web33007.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Good Morning- For those of you waiting- I just got an email at 9:30 this morning from Amazon that my book shipped. The book must have been released and Amazon now has them in. The odd thing was yesterday I got an email from them offering to cancel my order (if I didn't respond) as the delivery date was now undetermined. I'm glad I responded to continue with the order. Have a good day. Mike From cynapse at charter.net Sat Jun 21 12:05:31 2008 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 12:05:31 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] "Field Guide to Meteors and Meteorites" now Available In-Reply-To: <618404.18129.qm@web33007.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <618404.18129.qm@web33007.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 21 Jun 2008 08:48:11 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: >Good Morning- > For those of you waiting- I just got an email at 9:30 this morning from Amazon that my book shipped. The book must have been released and Amazon now has them in. > The odd thing was yesterday I got an email from them offering to cancel my order (if I didn't respond) as the delivery date was now undetermined. I'm glad I responded to continue with the order. > Have a good day. Coincidentally, I was just looking at that on Amazon a few minutes ago, and wondering why nobody had mentioned getting theirs yet (release date at Amazon is shown as June 6th). From sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com Sat Jun 21 12:48:35 2008 From: sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com (Steve Dunklee) Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 09:48:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Higher than expected levels of sodium ... suggest that the dust clouds from which the building blocks of the Earth and neighboring planets formed were much denser than previously supposed. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <751102.61146.qm@web33203.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Ionized particles in the early formation of chondrules would hold a charge. This charge would hold sodium vapor rather than allowing it to be driven away, much the way a sodium vapor lamp works. In effect the charge in addition to the low gravity would would tend to concentrate the available sodium , which would be deposited in the chondrules. You have to remember that most chondrules formed before the sun did ,so there was nothing to drive the gasses away which could allow higher than expected sodium in chondrules. Once the sun ignited any surface gasses would be driven away but any trapped sodium would remain. Higher sodium values do not prove higher concentrations of gasses at formation. If they were higher they would permeate the entire structure rather than be on the surface of the crystals, much the way salt concentrates on the surface of ice crystals in the arctic. Just my opinion Steve Dunklee --- On Thu, 6/19/08, Darren Garrison wrote: > From: Darren Garrison > Subject: [meteorite-list] Higher than expected levels of sodium ... suggest that the dust clouds from which the building blocks of the Earth and neighboring planets formed were much denser than previously supposed. > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Thursday, June 19, 2008, 10:44 PM > http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/06/080619142124.htm > > Chemical Clues Point To Dusty Origin For Earth-like Planets > ScienceDaily (June 20, 2008) ? Higher than expected > levels of sodium found in a > 4.6 billion-year-old meteorite suggest that the dust clouds > from which the > building blocks of the Earth and neighboring planets formed > were much denser > than previously supposed. The study, by scientists from the > Carnegie > Institution, American Museum of Natural History, and U.S. > Geological Survey, is > published in the June 20 issue of Science. > > Conel Alexander and Fred Ciesla of the Carnegie > Institution's Department of > Terrestrial Magnetism, with colleagues Jeffrey Grossman of > the U.S. Geological > Survey and Denton Ebel of the American Museum of Natural > History, analyzed the > sodium content of grains in objects called > "chondrules" from the Semarkona > meteorite, which fell in India in 1940. > > The Semarkona meteorite, like all other chondrule-bearing > meteorites (known as > chondrites), dates from the early stages of the solar > system's formation. Unlike > most others, however, its constituents have been relatively > unaltered by heat > and chemical changes over the more than four billion years > since its origin, > making it an important window into the early history of the > solar system. > > Chondrules, which make up 20 to 80% of the volume of > chondrites, are round, > roughly millimeter-sized objects made of glass and > crystals. Chondrules are > thought to have formed by flash heating of dust in the > primordial solar system. > >From the types of minerals found in chondrules, > scientists have determined that > they formed at temperatures of up to nearly 2,000? C > (3600? F). The source of > this high heat, which would have affected vast areas of > dust, is unknown. The > heat would also be expected to have boiled off many of the > volatile chemical > elements, such as sodium, leaving the chondrules depleted > in these elements. > > But the chemical analyses by the research team found that > the Semarkona > chondrules had surprisingly high sodium abundances when > they formed, indicating > that sodium was not driven off. Rather, it remained at > nearly constant levels > during chondrule formation. > > "Chondrules formed as molten droplets produced by what > was probably one of the > most energetic processes that operated in the early solar > system," says > Alexander. "You would expect all the sodium to > evaporate and be lost from the > chondrules under such conditions. Instead, the sodium was > retained. The > chondrules stayed as effectively closed systems throughout > the heating and > melting." > > The researchers determined that in order for the molten > droplets that formed the > chondrules to remain as closed systems and retain constant > levels of sodium, the > initial dust cloud must have been far denser than > previously supposed. "If the > droplets were crowded close enough together, then the > sodium vapor in the spaces > in between would reach a saturation point," says > Alexander, "and that would > prevent further evaporation." > > To achieve this condition, the density of dust in the > chondrule-forming regions > of the early solar system must have been at least about 10 > grams per cubic > meter, and possibly much more. This is at least 100 times > the densities > considered by previous models of chondrule formation, which > had assumed at most > densities of only about 0.1 grams per cubic meter, and > normally considerably > less. At densities of 10 grams per cubic meter or more, > regions only a few > thousand kilometers across, small by astronomical > standards, could collapse > under their own gravity to make objects that would be 10s > of kilometers across. > > "What's notable about this result is that it > raises the possibility that the > formation of chondrules in these high-density regions was > linked to the > formation of kilometer-sized objects called planetesimals, > which were the first > stage in building Earth-like planets," says Alexander. > "It will also help narrow > down the possibilities for the cause of the heating that > produced the > chondrules, as well as the sizes of the regions where they > formed. Heating > chondrules to their peak temperatures and then quickly > cooling them down when > they are present at such high densities is a significant > challenge for any > mechanism proposed to explain chondrule origin. These tiny > objects still have a > lot to tell us about how our solar system took shape." > > This research was supported by the Carnegie Institution, > the NASA Origins of > Solar Systems Program, and the NASA Cosmochemistry Program. > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From tbear1 at cableone.net Sat Jun 21 12:56:50 2008 From: tbear1 at cableone.net (Ted Bunch) Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 09:56:50 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Higher than expected levels of sodium ... suggest that the dust clouds from which the building blocks of the Earth and neighboring planets formed were much denser than previously supposed. In-Reply-To: <751102.61146.qm@web33203.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Sounds like a good opinion to me - Ted Bunch On 6/21/08 9:48 AM, "Steve Dunklee" wrote: > Ionized particles in the early formation of chondrules would hold a charge. > This charge would hold sodium vapor rather than allowing it to be driven away, > much the way a sodium vapor lamp works. In effect the charge in addition to > the low gravity would would tend to concentrate the available sodium , which > would be deposited in the chondrules. You have to remember that most > chondrules formed before the sun did ,so there was nothing to drive the gasses > away which could allow higher than expected sodium in chondrules. Once the sun > ignited any surface gasses would be driven away but any trapped sodium would > remain. Higher sodium values do not prove higher concentrations of gasses > at formation. If they were higher they would permeate the entire structure > rather than be on the surface of the crystals, much the way salt concentrates > on the surface of ice crystals in the arctic. Just my opinion Steve > Dunklee --- On Thu, 6/19/08, Darren Garrison > wrote: > From: From lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu Sat Jun 21 16:45:19 2008 From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu (lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu) Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 13:45:19 -0700 (MST) Subject: [meteorite-list] 'Field Guide to Meteors and Meteorites' now Available In-Reply-To: <618404.18129.qm@web33007.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <618404.18129.qm@web33007.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <50384.71.226.60.25.1214081119.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> Hi All: I am looking for one or two reviewers of this book. Any takers? Sorry that I cannot offer you a free copy, so limited to someone who is getting their copy in the near future (for the August deadline). Thanks Larry Lebofsky Co-Editor, Meteorite magazine On Sat, June 21, 2008 8:48 am, Mike Groetz wrote: > Good Morning- > For those of you waiting- I just got an email at 9:30 this morning from > Amazon that my book shipped. The book must have been released and Amazon > now has them in. The odd thing was yesterday I got an email from them > offering to cancel my order (if I didn't respond) as the delivery date > was now undetermined. I'm glad I responded to continue with the order. > Have a good day. > Mike > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From darryl at dof3.com Sat Jun 21 19:11:37 2008 From: darryl at dof3.com (Darryl Pitt) Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 19:11:37 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Inexpensive Chassignite? YES!! Tomorrow Only. Message-ID: <02FB0FDF-5E65-4B2A-933C-0DEC834043CF@dof3.com> Terrific complete slice of the NWA2727 chassignite. Bonhams. Tomorrow. 1.28 grams / Estimate: $2250-3500 http://www.bonhams.com/cgi-bin/public.sh/pubweb/publicSite.r? sContinent=USA&screen=lotdetailsNoFlash&iSaleItemNo=3962216&iSaleNo=1608 9&iSaleSectionNo=1 If the above link does not work, use this.....and then select lot 4436 http://www.bonhams.com/cgi-bin/public.sh/pubweb/publicSite.r? sContinent=USA&screen=Catalogue&iSaleNo=16089 good luck!! all best / darryl From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Sun Jun 22 06:48:05 2008 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 03:48:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Continuing education Friable Slickensides In-Reply-To: <001b01c8d2ec$6a0b0100$0201a8c0@laptop> Message-ID: <115832.29943.qm@web55206.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Well Pete, Friable of course are eggs 'n bacon... And slickensides come from the bacon grease... Ok-- couldn't resist. Friable: in the geological sense, means brittle to the point of being easily crumbled. This is the term we use to describe rock "fabric" which is so poorly consolidated, poorly cemented, or extensively exsolved, that it can be crushed with the strength of one's hand. Burbojole(sp) is a classic friable meteorite which was recovered from several meters of mud underneath sea ice. Amazing integrity for such penetration, it would seem. Did Carancus become friable as a result of impact? The tenstile/crushing test were quiet variable( 2-62Mp) I haven't seen the thin section studies. Slickenside: A structure/zone that lies on/between a fault/slippage face which may be striated, grooved, polished or, all of the above. It may contain "rock flour" or secondary minerals from the physical, then chemical, alteration of the zone. The term adopted from the german use. What I believe I know about slickenside formation is that it is a lengthy process" both in time and displacement. (? few minutes to seconds vs ? few miliseconds). The conclusions in the Carancus report, if true, might tend to lessen the difference between formations of slickensides and shock veins. Who am I to challenge a peer-reviewed publication---but I have reservations. Remember it was not a lot of physical analysis so much as computer modeling. I still don't see a shock veins forming striations, owing that their primary forming process was hitherto understood to be pooling of flash-melted olivine shifting to the high pressure polymorph: ringwoodite under mantle level pressures(as an example). PDF--planar deformation features aka shocked quartz was recovered from the impact soil but those can form and far lower pressures then needed to form ringwoodite. Seems almost every piece I saw had slickensides and unless there was a sampling error, I also have reservations that Carancus was not extensively chocked full of slickensides at entry. (See also Zag A for slickensides) Fragmentation seemed to slightly favor rupturing along slickensides but breaking across them was common also. If they had they formed at impact, seems they would all have favored breaking along the slickenside surfaces. Do the slickensides of Carancus contain glass, indicating that they could have healed the surfaces giving back some strength? (There is a Doctorial thesis in thee somewhere). Dating the slickensides would also shed light on whether they formed at impact or in some past collision on a parent body. If there was no containment--as in a disintegrating mass, then seems to me that there would be no slipping-- just crumbling. I would like to see some research on the composition and structure of the slickensides to know how old they were and how hot the faces got. Weighing what we know, they are old not new. Funny but it is conceivable that the Carancus slickenside could represent a unique internal fusion ahem crust..er feature. Elton --- On Fri, 6/20/08, Pete Shugar wrote: > Can someone please define for me the two terms: friable and > slickensides? > Thanks, Pete From mlblood at cox.net Sun Jun 22 07:41:25 2008 From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael L Blood) Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 04:41:25 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] The wonderful wizards of Osmium CHICXULUB I In-Reply-To: <013f01c89b63$9c8d1b60$8250e146@ATARIENGINE> Message-ID: Hi Sterling and all, I saw an educational video that stated they had discovered An "impact crater" (based on shocked quartz - shattercones) That was 500 MILES in diameter. Michael on 4/10/08 4:35 PM, Sterling K. Webb at sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net wrote: > Hi, List, > > There's a little bit of "straw-manning" going on here > (caution: science journalism at work -- theirs not mine). > They say the accepted size estimate of the Chicxulub > impactor is 15 km to 19 km. That's wrong. The most > commonly accepted estimate is 10 km (although > some favor 12 or 13 km). > > Their size estimate is based on the idea that all the > osmium they found was ALL the osmium from the impactor. > I doubt that the transport mechanism from impactor to ocean > muck was 100% efficient. > > Two-thirds of the planet is ocean, one third land. If what > what they found in the muck was two-thirds of the osmium? > The impactor would be 5 km across instead of 4.4 km, not an > astounding increase. > > All we know from the Chicxulub crater is the kinetic > energy of the impact: not the size, not the speed, but the > product of the two: mass times ( speed squared ). The Bang > at Chicxulub was 100 TeraTons of TNT. (That's 500 Zetta- > Joules, zetta being 10^21), or 100,000,000 MegaTons of TNT! > > A 5 km impactor weighs 1/8th of what a 10 km impactor > of the same material would and so it would have to go 2.8 > times faster when it hit (2.8 squared = 8). Interestingly, > while we know the energy well, estimates of velocity are > a little shy. Those that offer up big impactors keep the > speed down and those that talk of smaller impactors boost > the speed estimate appropriately. > > But if a 5 km stoney impactor did all that damage, we are > talking about velocities in the neighborhood of 35 to 45 km/sec. > A highly eccentric orbit is required to achieve those kinds of > encounter velocities with the Earth. > > The most recent theory (I like it) of where the Chicxuluber > came from is the breakup of the parent body of the Baptistina > family of asteroids about 160 million years ago (the biggest > survivor of which is 298 Baptistina). > > The high encounter velocity also encourages proponents > of the comet impact theory. True, the press release says: > "chemical traces of the impactors left behind in rocks... > suggest otherwise," but you can forget that. The "traces" > are of a carbonaceous chondrite, a likely composition for > a "comet," which is afterall just an asteroid with extra frosting. > > > > Sterling K. Webb > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Darren Garrison" > To: > Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 4:52 PM > Subject: [meteorite-list] The wonderful wizards of Osmium > > > http://space.newscientist.com/article/dn13649-ocean-mud-yields-secrets-of-past > -earth-impacts.html > > Ocean mud yields secrets of past Earth impacts > 20:28 10 April 2008 > NewScientist.com news service > David Shiga > > Mud at the bottom of the ocean holds precious clues about asteroids that > struck > Earth in the past, a new study reveals. > > Scientists would love to have a better record of asteroid and comet impacts > to > understand how these catastrophic events have affected life and Earth's > climate. > But most impactors that made it through the atmosphere either gouged out a > crater that was subsequently erased or splashed into the ocean. > Now, scientists have developed a new tool to uncover these events, based on > concentrations of the metal osmium found in mud at the bottom of the ocean. > The > technique was developed by Fran?ois Paquay of the University of Hawaii in > Honolulu, US, and his colleagues. > > Osmium atoms come in two varieties, or isotopes, one of which is slightly > heavier than the other. Crucially, the osmium in meteorites is much richer > in > the lighter form than the stuff native to Earth. As a result, scientists can > determine how much of the otherworldly stuff is present in any given deposit > of > the metal they find. > > Paquay's team has been looking for the metal in samples of ocean sediment > obtained by drilling into the ocean floor. The sediment was laid down in > layers > over time, allowing scientists to date when they were deposited. > > Multiple strikes > In 1995, members of Paquay's team pointed out high levels of the lighter > osmium > isotope - associated with extraterrestrial material - in ocean sediment laid > down around the time of the impact that killed off the dinosaurs 65 million > years ago. > > Since then, they have found another big spike in extraterrestrial osmium > laid > down at the time of another known impact event that happened 35 million > years > ago. At that time, multiple impacts shook the Earth in what is known as the > Late > Eocene impacts. > > The team estimates that 80,000 tonnes of osmium from the object that wiped > out > the dinosaurs was vaporised by the heat of the impact. It then dissolved > into > seawater and eventually accumulated on the ocean floor. The Late Eocene > impacts > 35 million years ago laid down an estimated 20,000 tonnes. > > Smaller impacts > Based on these amounts, the team estimates that the dinosaur-killing object > was > 4.1 to 4.4 kilometres across, while the largest of the Late Eocene impactors > would have been 2.8 to 3 km across. > > These are much lower than previous estimates based on the size of the > craters > associated with these events. These have given impactor size estimates of 15 > to > 19 km for the one that killed off the dinosaurs, and 8 km for the larger of > two > impactors involved in the Late Eocene impacts. > > What accounts for the difference? For one thing, the calculations by > Paquay's > team assume that 100% of the osmium from the impactors was vaporised and > dissolved into seawater. If a smaller percentage actually ended up on the > ocean > floor, then the impactors could have been bigger. > > Comet impacts? > But even after taking this into account, Paquay thinks the impactors were > smaller than the crater-based calculations suggest. If the impactors were as > large as these calculations imply, then 90% of the osmium from the impactors > is > hiding somewhere other than in ocean sediment. "We think that this is > unlikely, > but we can't rule this possibility out without additional work," he says. > > Another possibility is that the impacting objects were comets rather than > asteroids, and contained much less osmium to begin with. But chemical traces > of > the impactors left behind in rocks and reported in previous studies suggest > otherwise. > > Kenneth Farley of Caltech in Pasadena, US, who has studied other traces of > impacts in sediment, but is not a member of Paquay's team, is impressed with > the > new method. > > "I am hoping that this technique will allow the detection of previously > unknown > impacts so we can get a better handle on impact frequency and assess > whether - > and how - impacts affect life and climate," he told New Scientist. > > Unique signature > Although impacts are also known to contribute unusually large amounts of an > element called iridium to sediment, the iridium concentrations are much > harder > to translate into impactor sizes, Farley says. > > Unlike osmium, extraterrestrial iridium does not have a unique isotope > signature, so is harder to distinguish from iridium native to Earth. > > And while samples show osmium is laid down evenly across the planet, the > distribution of iridium is very patchy, making it hard to draw conclusions > without a large number of samples from different parts of the planet. > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably.. And never regret anything that made you smile. From mlblood at cox.net Sun Jun 22 07:48:53 2008 From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael L Blood) Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 04:48:53 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Dino killer size In-Reply-To: <242661.40236.qm@web36903.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: If you go to the following URL below, the 6th painting from The top is the K-T Event. Be sure to click on it to see a much Larger photo of it: http://michaelbloodmeteorites.com/JerryArmstrong.html Best wishes, Michael on 4/11/08 9:46 AM, E.P. Grondine at epgrondine at yahoo.com wrote: > Hi Sterling - > > I would imagine a lot of the cosmic osmium would have > been "sequestered" in the impact spherules. The KT > fossil meteorite seems to have been ignored by this > group, so > > How would you determine the composition of what hit? > First, take samples from around the crater. Then > working from known densities and crater size, estimate > your velocity. > > That said, the idea of using osmium ratios as a way of > detecting impacts to have occurred looks valid. > > E.P. Grondine > Man and Impact in the Americas > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably.. And never regret anything that made you smile. From mlblood at cox.net Sun Jun 22 08:12:39 2008 From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael L Blood) Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 05:12:39 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Sikhote Alin Help In-Reply-To: <004201c89c2b$f9cb34b0$6101a8c0@BranchFamily> Message-ID: Well, Not EXACTLY: In the US, the Enlish word, "Value" is most often translated To mean what is the dollar amount someone will pay (the Free Enterprise system is based on what Anthropologists refer to as "negative exchange" - each side is attempting to get the better Deal in an interaction). In such a system, DOLLAR "value" is strictly What one will pay. (this should NOT be confused with what one Individual pays at an auction - which can be very much lower or Very much higher than the overall "market." - try to sell the Claxton Mailbox at the Tucson Show for $83K - yet two different buyers Valued it so at one particular time at one event (very most likely Not meteorite collectors - at least not prior to the auction - if they Were, they were beginners with staggering amounts of wealth - it Could even have been a personal "challenge" between them - a delight For any seller at an auction - what does it matter to an actor or Other public figure earning over $10Mil/yr to spend such money) - But that does not a market make - however, on that day, in that Context, that is exactly what that mailbox was "worth." However, we often forget that "true" "value" is the importance We, ourselves place on an item, relationship, etc. Personally, I am staggered at the cost of even modestly "status" Cars and women's shoes. I certainly do not "value" them like many, Many others. The point is, everything has a value ONLY in the eye of the Beholder - a "market" is when many have a similar "eye" regarding Given items. But I suppose this is all clearly understood, and just not spoken. Best wishes, Michael on 4/11/08 4:30 PM, Walter Branch at waltbranch at bellsouth.net wrote: > Uh, Al.... > > The true value IS what someone wants to pay :-) > > How could it be otherwise? > > -Walter Branch > ________________________ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "AL Mitterling" > To: "Meteorite Mailing List" > Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 7:26 PM > Subject: [meteorite-list] Sikhote Alin Help > > >> Greetings, >> >> This is the fourth time I have tried to post this message. I am seeking >> help to determine a value for a 20.3 kg Sikhote Alin. >> I need what dealers or collectors feel would be the true retail value of >> a super nice structured, un-rusted specimen. I want a true value and not >> what someone wants to pay. Any help appreciated. >> >> AL >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably.. And never regret anything that made you smile. From almitt at kconline.com Sun Jun 22 10:55:21 2008 From: almitt at kconline.com (AL Mitterling) Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 10:55:21 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Sikhote Alin Help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <485E67D9.30606@kconline.com> Hi Michael and all, The value for the 20.3 kg Sikhote-Alin that I was asked to provide a value for (what dollar amount) ended up being $21,400.00. This wasn't based on my estimate but rather I gathered facts and comments from our group and some other collectors who were willing to give me an idea of the value of this specimen based on photos I provided as well as my comments on the condition of the specimen. I turned this over to a license appraiser who used all the facts that were sent to me to come up with some sort of an idea. Thanks to everyone who helped me with their ideas on the market value!! Here were some statistics used. Average price.................................$22,534.00 Minus high price.............................$19,523.00 Minus low and high price.................$21,194.00 My suggested value........................$18,000.00 Apprasers true value.......................$21,400.00 From azizhabibi at yahoo.com Sun Jun 22 11:56:33 2008 From: azizhabibi at yahoo.com (habibi abdelaziz) Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 08:56:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] more info on nwa 4734 Message-ID: <221619.36693.qm@web62004.mail.re1.yahoo.com> hello all, it has been a while, i hope the guys in ensishiem are doing good souk. here is some more info on the nwa4734 the lunar that cross many stages. http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/metsoc2008/pdf/5058.pdf the photo of nwa4734 that i have actualy 409 + 68 gr.in my collection. http://www.flickr.com/photos/azizhabibi/sets/72157602531819147/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/azizhabibi/sets/ nextly i will have a very big sale may be of a nice collection of rare planetary meteorite and rare achondrite. thanks aziz habibi aziz box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco www.palmserfoud.com www.palmotel.com cellular phone 21261454772. phone. 21235576145 fax.21235576170 _____________________________________________________________________________ Envoyez avec Yahoo! Mail. Une boite mail plus intelligente http://mail.yahoo.fr From cmb62 at columbus.rr.com Sun Jun 22 12:32:06 2008 From: cmb62 at columbus.rr.com (Charley) Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 12:32:06 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] "Field Guide to Meteors and Meteorites" now Available References: Message-ID: <000701c8d485$8304d510$6401a8c0@HAL> Hi all, I ordered mine on Amazon.com when Mike first alerted the list (April 15) that the book was soon to be available. The cost was to be $25.05 (including free shipping and the pre-order discount) . About a week and a half ago I received an email from Amazon telling me that there was a delay and asking me to respond if I was still interested. I responded in the affirmative and later received an email from Amazon that the new expected date was in late July. I just visited my Amazon order page and it shows that the anticipated shipping date is July 21 (and my pre-order discount has disappeared). Clicking on the book title takes me to the book description page where it is noted that the book is temporarily out of stock. Apparently Amazon is confused. Anyway, I've waited 2 months already so what is another month? It would be interesting to know if anyone actually receives the book before July 21. Best regards, Charley "Well, squids don't work. Hey! Let's try elephants !" Hannibal > Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 12:05:31 -0400 > From: Darren Garrison > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] "Field Guide to Meteors and Meteorites" > now Available > To: Meteorite List > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > On Sat, 21 Jun 2008 08:48:11 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: > >> Good Morning- >> For those of you waiting- I just got an email at 9:30 this morning >> from Amazon that my book shipped. The book must have been released >> and Amazon now has them in. The odd thing was yesterday I got an >> email from them offering to cancel my order (if I didn't respond) as >> the delivery date was now undetermined. I'm glad I responded to >> continue with the order. Have a good day. > > Coincidentally, I was just looking at that on Amazon a few minutes > ago, and > wondering why nobody had mentioned getting theirs yet (release date > at Amazon is > shown as June 6th). > From mexicodoug at aim.com Sun Jun 22 12:54:11 2008 From: mexicodoug at aim.com (mexicodoug at aim.com) Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 12:54:11 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] "Field Guide to Meteors and Meteorites" now Available In-Reply-To: <000701c8d485$8304d510$6401a8c0@HAL> References: <000701c8d485$8304d510$6401a8c0@HAL> Message-ID: <8CAA29FBAC94D44-14CC-440@FWM-D17.sysops.aol.com> Hello Charly, I have had the identical experience as you up to a certain point. Here is what I will suggest: Check your orders placed in the last 6 months (NOT in "recent orders" - it won't show up there). I noticed a few days ago that the pre-order discount of $1.32 disappeared as well. Must have been a software glitch caused by the delay which I bet was partly the publisher's fault. I immediately signed on, went to "help" and clicked on the "contact us" button and clicked on the email tab and sent them a form email with my order number filled in the field and some antisonant words about wasting my time with this five cent complaint where they 'lost' my preorder discount. Barely six hours later I received a personal apology (complete with a spelling mistake which actually made it more appreciated since computers don't make mistakes, right)) and a refund of $1.32. On June 19, my book was shipped by UPS and I will receive it shortly. I was provided the tracking number and see the 2.1 pound box is currently in: SECAUCUS, NJ, US 06/21/2008, after having left Bound Brook, NJ. I hope you will have a similar experience if you can click around a bit more. Best wishes, Doug -----Original Message----- From: Charley To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 11:32 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] "Field Guide to Meteors and Meteorites" now Available Hi all, I ordered mine on Amazon.com when Mike first alerted the list (April 15) that the book was soon to be available. The cost was to be $25.05 (including free shipping and the pre-order discount) . About a week and a half ago I received an email from Amazon telling me that there was a delay and asking me to respond if I was still interested. I responded in the affirmative and later received an email from Amazon that the new expected date was in late July. I just visited my Amazon order page and it shows that the anticipated shipping date is July 21 (and my pre-order discount has disappeared). Clicking on the book title takes me to the book description page where it is noted that the book is temporarily out of stock. Apparently Amazon is confused. Anyway, I've waited 2 months already so what is another month? It would be interesting to know if anyone actually receives the book before July 21. Best regards, Charley "Well, squids don't work. Hey! Let's try elephants !" Hannibal > Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 12:05:31 -0400 > From: Darren Garrison > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] "Field Guide to Meteors and Meteorites" > now Available > To: Meteorite List > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > On Sat, 21 Jun 2008 08:48:11 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: > >> Good Morning- >> For those of you waiting- I just got an email at 9:30 this morning >> from Amazon that my book shipped. The book must have been released >> and Amazon now has them in. The odd thing was yesterday I got an >> email from them offering to cancel my order (if I didn't respond) as >> the delivery date was now undetermined. I'm glad I responded to >> continue with the order. Have a good day. > > Coincidentally, I was just looking at that on Amazon a few minutes > ago, and > wondering why nobody had mentioned getting theirs yet (release date > at Amazon is > shown as June 6th). > ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From jan at meteorieten.com Sun Jun 22 13:36:16 2008 From: jan at meteorieten.com (Jan Bartels) Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 19:36:16 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Opinion needed !! Message-ID: <51670.85.145.6.103.1214156176.squirrel@webmail.uniserver.nl> Listoids.... Holland is a small country so if something happens, meteorite related, people know where to find you. We get many reports about a possible hammer here and there and since we only have four meteorites in history so far we don't get that shaky anymore since we know it's a tough one to get our fifth spacerock. This time a man called a bit in panic, telling us he heard a loud bang yesterday late afternoon and found this piece stuck next to his window in a plastic siding. After sending us these first pictures it looks quite scary, eventhough I realize it probably should have plunged much deeper after impact but still...... Another thing....these folks live on a farm totaly isolated from traffic. Opinions welcome folks... Here are the pics... http://pic70.picturetrail.com/VOL1850/8117688/19931258/322341103.jpg http://pic70.picturetrail.com/VOL1850/8117688/19931258/322341193.jpg From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Sun Jun 22 13:55:24 2008 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 22 Jun 2008 17:55:24 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] Opinion needed !! Message-ID: Opinions welcome folks...Here are the pics... http://pic70.picturetrail.com/VOL1850/8117688/19931258/322341103.jpg http://pic70.picturetrail.com/VOL1850/8117688/19931258/322341193.jpg Hi Jan and List, Slightly weathered, fully crusted NWA (W1-2; S2-3) squeezed into the siding of a Dutch window frame! Bernd ;-) From daistiho at hotmail.com Sun Jun 22 14:07:13 2008 From: daistiho at hotmail.com (tracy latimer) Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 18:07:13 +0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] Opinion needed !! In-Reply-To: <51670.85.145.6.103.1214156176.squirrel@webmail.uniserver.nl> References: <51670.85.145.6.103.1214156176.squirrel@webmail.uniserver.nl> Message-ID: Wonderful! Have that thing analyzed; it looks promising (as long as there wasn't any heavy machinery operating nearby at the time). Tracy Latimer > Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 19:36:16 +0200 > From: jan at meteorieten.com > To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: [meteorite-list] Opinion needed !! > > Listoids.... > > Holland is a small country so if something happens, meteorite related, > people know where to find you. > We get many reports about a possible hammer here and there and since we > only have four meteorites in history so far we don't get that shaky > anymore since we know it's a tough one to get our fifth spacerock. > > This time a man called a bit in panic, telling us he heard a loud bang > yesterday late afternoon and found this piece stuck next to his window in > a plastic siding. After sending us these first pictures it looks quite > scary, eventhough I realize it probably should have plunged much deeper > after impact but still...... > > Another thing....these folks live on a farm totaly isolated from traffic. > > Opinions welcome folks... > Here are the pics... > > http://pic70.picturetrail.com/VOL1850/8117688/19931258/322341103.jpg > > http://pic70.picturetrail.com/VOL1850/8117688/19931258/322341193.jpg > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _________________________________________________________________ Earn cashback on your purchases with Live Search - the search that pays you back! http://search.live.com/cashback/?&pkw=form=MIJAAF/publ=HMTGL/crea=earncashback From axelsson at acc.umu.se Sun Jun 22 14:20:16 2008 From: axelsson at acc.umu.se (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=F6ran_Axelsson?=) Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 20:20:16 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Opinion needed !! In-Reply-To: <51670.85.145.6.103.1214156176.squirrel@webmail.uniserver.nl> References: <51670.85.145.6.103.1214156176.squirrel@webmail.uniserver.nl> Message-ID: <485E97E0.4080708@acc.umu.se> Too rusty too fast. Too bad. /G?ran Jan Bartels wrote: > Listoids.... > > Holland is a small country so if something happens, meteorite related, > people know where to find you. > We get many reports about a possible hammer here and there and since we > only have four meteorites in history so far we don't get that shaky > anymore since we know it's a tough one to get our fifth spacerock. > > This time a man called a bit in panic, telling us he heard a loud bang > yesterday late afternoon and found this piece stuck next to his window in > a plastic siding. After sending us these first pictures it looks quite > scary, eventhough I realize it probably should have plunged much deeper > after impact but still...... > > Another thing....these folks live on a farm totaly isolated from traffic. > > Opinions welcome folks... > Here are the pics... > > http://pic70.picturetrail.com/VOL1850/8117688/19931258/322341103.jpg > > http://pic70.picturetrail.com/VOL1850/8117688/19931258/322341193.jpg > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From meteoritekid at gmail.com Sun Jun 22 14:21:31 2008 From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas) Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 11:21:31 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Opinion needed !! In-Reply-To: References: <51670.85.145.6.103.1214156176.squirrel@webmail.uniserver.nl> Message-ID: <93aaac890806221121q75c41eebn60612a74fc9b9935@mail.gmail.com> Hola, Sounds like a decent story - until you look at the pictures. 1) That thing wasn't free-falling; look at the gouges in the picture - it was moving almost horizontally. Meteorites don't do that, at least without retaining enough velocity to make a crater (necessary mass to do so would be, apparently 10-12 tonnes if we look at Carancas). 2) Look at it. It's rusty. If it just fell, it should be either matte-black (chondrite), glossy-black (achondrite), or gunmetal-blue-grey (iron). If it had a broken side, we might see anything ranging from white to black, maybe hackly metal, but this is a non-issue; whatever it is, it's rusty, and thus is not a fresh meteorite. Sorry, maybe next time... Regards, Jason On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 11:07 AM, tracy latimer wrote: > > Wonderful! Have that thing analyzed; it looks promising (as long as there wasn't any heavy machinery operating nearby at the time). > > Tracy Latimer > >> Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 19:36:16 +0200 >> From: jan at meteorieten.com >> To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> Subject: [meteorite-list] Opinion needed !! >> >> Listoids.... >> >> Holland is a small country so if something happens, meteorite related, >> people know where to find you. >> We get many reports about a possible hammer here and there and since we >> only have four meteorites in history so far we don't get that shaky >> anymore since we know it's a tough one to get our fifth spacerock. >> >> This time a man called a bit in panic, telling us he heard a loud bang >> yesterday late afternoon and found this piece stuck next to his window in >> a plastic siding. After sending us these first pictures it looks quite >> scary, eventhough I realize it probably should have plunged much deeper >> after impact but still...... >> >> Another thing....these folks live on a farm totaly isolated from traffic. >> >> Opinions welcome folks... >> Here are the pics... >> >> http://pic70.picturetrail.com/VOL1850/8117688/19931258/322341103.jpg >> >> http://pic70.picturetrail.com/VOL1850/8117688/19931258/322341193.jpg >> >> >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > _________________________________________________________________ > Earn cashback on your purchases with Live Search - the search that pays you back! > http://search.live.com/cashback/?&pkw=form=MIJAAF/publ=HMTGL/crea=earncashback > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From gsac at gmx.net Sun Jun 22 14:28:54 2008 From: gsac at gmx.net (Alexander Seidel) Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 20:28:54 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Opinion needed !! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080622182854.61630@gmx.net> I concur with Bernd. Bad joke - but don?t ever underestimate people, some may be dumb, while some may try at a somewhat higher level of so-called humor when presenting recent falls from their own backyards. [Well, after all you just wanted an opinion, and no guarantees... :-) Rock on, Jan and Yvonne, have a good time!] Alex Berlin/Germany > Opinions welcome folks...Here are the pics... > > http://pic70.picturetrail.com/VOL1850/8117688/19931258/322341103.jpg > http://pic70.picturetrail.com/VOL1850/8117688/19931258/322341193.jpg > > > Hi Jan and List, > > Slightly weathered, fully crusted NWA (W1-2; S2-3) > squeezed into the siding of a Dutch window frame! > > Bernd ;-) From chinaren76 at yahoo.com Sun Jun 22 14:36:28 2008 From: chinaren76 at yahoo.com (Ma Lan) Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 11:36:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Opinion needed !! In-Reply-To: <51670.85.145.6.103.1214156176.squirrel@webmail.uniserver.nl> Message-ID: <980754.71876.qm@web52703.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi Jan and all, Why is it a complete stone since it fell in a "hammer" way? No burning signs around the plastic siding. Rusty feature looks like a non-fresh meteorite. Probably a man-made event... Regards Ma Lan Beijing China --- On Mon, 6/23/08, Jan Bartels wrote: > From: Jan Bartels > Subject: [meteorite-list] Opinion needed !! > To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Monday, June 23, 2008, 1:36 AM > Listoids.... > > Holland is a small country so if something happens, > meteorite related, > people know where to find you. > We get many reports about a possible hammer here and there > and since we > only have four meteorites in history so far we don't > get that shaky > anymore since we know it's a tough one to get our fifth > spacerock. > > This time a man called a bit in panic, telling us he heard > a loud bang > yesterday late afternoon and found this piece stuck next to > his window in > a plastic siding. After sending us these first pictures it > looks quite > scary, eventhough I realize it probably should have plunged > much deeper > after impact but still...... > > Another thing....these folks live on a farm totaly isolated > from traffic. > > Opinions welcome folks... > Here are the pics... > > http://pic70.picturetrail.com/VOL1850/8117688/19931258/322341103.jpg > > http://pic70.picturetrail.com/VOL1850/8117688/19931258/322341193.jpg > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Sun Jun 22 14:54:33 2008 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 13:54:33 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] The wonderful wizards of Osmium CHICXULUB I References: Message-ID: <007c01c8d499$695c7190$2346e146@ATARIENGINE> Hi, Michael, List, Estimates of Chicxulub crater size range from 170-180 kilometers (or about 115 miles) up to 300 kilometers ( ~180 miles). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicxulub_crater The placement of the unique wells of Yucatan, the cenotes, delimit a crater rim with a diameter of 170-195 km. http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v376/n6539/abs/376415a0.html Chicxulub is a multi-ring basin (the big ones are). The question is whether the 170-180 km ring is the outermost ring. Some see it; some don't. Here's all the geological (like gravimetric) data: http://miac.uqac.ca/MIAC/chicxulub.htm The 300 km rim, if present, is high degraded. The chief reason for believing in it is the depressed terrain outside the 170-195 km rim, because depressed terrain occurs between rims but not outside the outermost rim (usually). So, you can see that it's highly doubtful that the crater was 500 miles or 800 km in diameter. You shouldn't believe everything you see on TV (or video). However, it was plenty big enough. Just ask your local dinosaurs... Whoops! Sterling K. Webb ------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael L Blood" To: "Sterling K. Webb" ; "Meteorite List" Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 6:41 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The wonderful wizards of Osmium CHICXULUB I Hi Sterling and all, I saw an educational video that stated they had discovered An "impact crater" (based on shocked quartz - shattercones) That was 500 MILES in diameter. Michael on 4/10/08 4:35 PM, Sterling K. Webb at sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net wrote: > Hi, List, > > There's a little bit of "straw-manning" going on here > (caution: science journalism at work -- theirs not mine). > They say the accepted size estimate of the Chicxulub > impactor is 15 km to 19 km. That's wrong. The most > commonly accepted estimate is 10 km (although > some favor 12 or 13 km). > > Their size estimate is based on the idea that all the > osmium they found was ALL the osmium from the impactor. > I doubt that the transport mechanism from impactor to ocean > muck was 100% efficient. > > Two-thirds of the planet is ocean, one third land. If what > what they found in the muck was two-thirds of the osmium? > The impactor would be 5 km across instead of 4.4 km, not an > astounding increase. > > All we know from the Chicxulub crater is the kinetic > energy of the impact: not the size, not the speed, but the > product of the two: mass times ( speed squared ). The Bang > at Chicxulub was 100 TeraTons of TNT. (That's 500 Zetta- > Joules, zetta being 10^21), or 100,000,000 MegaTons of TNT! > > A 5 km impactor weighs 1/8th of what a 10 km impactor > of the same material would and so it would have to go 2.8 > times faster when it hit (2.8 squared = 8). Interestingly, > while we know the energy well, estimates of velocity are > a little shy. Those that offer up big impactors keep the > speed down and those that talk of smaller impactors boost > the speed estimate appropriately. > > But if a 5 km stoney impactor did all that damage, we are > talking about velocities in the neighborhood of 35 to 45 km/sec. > A highly eccentric orbit is required to achieve those kinds of > encounter velocities with the Earth. > > The most recent theory (I like it) of where the Chicxuluber > came from is the breakup of the parent body of the Baptistina > family of asteroids about 160 million years ago (the biggest > survivor of which is 298 Baptistina). > > The high encounter velocity also encourages proponents > of the comet impact theory. True, the press release says: > "chemical traces of the impactors left behind in rocks... > suggest otherwise," but you can forget that. The "traces" > are of a carbonaceous chondrite, a likely composition for > a "comet," which is afterall just an asteroid with extra frosting. > > > > Sterling K. Webb > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Darren Garrison" > To: > Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 4:52 PM > Subject: [meteorite-list] The wonderful wizards of Osmium > > > http://space.newscientist.com/article/dn13649-ocean-mud-yields-secrets-of-past > -earth-impacts.html > > Ocean mud yields secrets of past Earth impacts > 20:28 10 April 2008 > NewScientist.com news service > David Shiga > > Mud at the bottom of the ocean holds precious clues about asteroids that > struck > Earth in the past, a new study reveals. > > Scientists would love to have a better record of asteroid and comet > impacts > to > understand how these catastrophic events have affected life and Earth's > climate. > But most impactors that made it through the atmosphere either gouged out a > crater that was subsequently erased or splashed into the ocean. > Now, scientists have developed a new tool to uncover these events, based > on > concentrations of the metal osmium found in mud at the bottom of the > ocean. > The > technique was developed by Fran?ois Paquay of the University of Hawaii in > Honolulu, US, and his colleagues. > > Osmium atoms come in two varieties, or isotopes, one of which is slightly > heavier than the other. Crucially, the osmium in meteorites is much richer > in > the lighter form than the stuff native to Earth. As a result, scientists > can > determine how much of the otherworldly stuff is present in any given > deposit > of > the metal they find. > > Paquay's team has been looking for the metal in samples of ocean sediment > obtained by drilling into the ocean floor. The sediment was laid down in > layers > over time, allowing scientists to date when they were deposited. > > Multiple strikes > In 1995, members of Paquay's team pointed out high levels of the lighter > osmium > isotope - associated with extraterrestrial material - in ocean sediment > laid > down around the time of the impact that killed off the dinosaurs 65 > million > years ago. > > Since then, they have found another big spike in extraterrestrial osmium > laid > down at the time of another known impact event that happened 35 million > years > ago. At that time, multiple impacts shook the Earth in what is known as > the > Late > Eocene impacts. > > The team estimates that 80,000 tonnes of osmium from the object that wiped > out > the dinosaurs was vaporised by the heat of the impact. It then dissolved > into > seawater and eventually accumulated on the ocean floor. The Late Eocene > impacts > 35 million years ago laid down an estimated 20,000 tonnes. > > Smaller impacts > Based on these amounts, the team estimates that the dinosaur-killing > object > was > 4.1 to 4.4 kilometres across, while the largest of the Late Eocene > impactors > would have been 2.8 to 3 km across. > > These are much lower than previous estimates based on the size of the > craters > associated with these events. These have given impactor size estimates of > 15 > to > 19 km for the one that killed off the dinosaurs, and 8 km for the larger > of > two > impactors involved in the Late Eocene impacts. > > What accounts for the difference? For one thing, the calculations by > Paquay's > team assume that 100% of the osmium from the impactors was vaporised and > dissolved into seawater. If a smaller percentage actually ended up on the > ocean > floor, then the impactors could have been bigger. > > Comet impacts? > But even after taking this into account, Paquay thinks the impactors were > smaller than the crater-based calculations suggest. If the impactors were > as > large as these calculations imply, then 90% of the osmium from the > impactors > is > hiding somewhere other than in ocean sediment. "We think that this is > unlikely, > but we can't rule this possibility out without additional work," he says. > > Another possibility is that the impacting objects were comets rather than > asteroids, and contained much less osmium to begin with. But chemical > traces > of > the impactors left behind in rocks and reported in previous studies > suggest > otherwise. > > Kenneth Farley of Caltech in Pasadena, US, who has studied other traces of > impacts in sediment, but is not a member of Paquay's team, is impressed > with > the > new method. > > "I am hoping that this technique will allow the detection of previously > unknown > impacts so we can get a better handle on impact frequency and assess > whether - > and how - impacts affect life and climate," he told New Scientist. > > Unique signature > Although impacts are also known to contribute unusually large amounts of > an > element called iridium to sediment, the iridium concentrations are much > harder > to translate into impactor sizes, Farley says. > > Unlike osmium, extraterrestrial iridium does not have a unique isotope > signature, so is harder to distinguish from iridium native to Earth. > > And while samples show osmium is laid down evenly across the planet, the > distribution of iridium is very patchy, making it hard to draw conclusions > without a large number of samples from different parts of the planet. > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably.. And never regret anything that made you smile. ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Sun Jun 22 16:16:11 2008 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 13:16:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Classification Criteria was Am I missing something here? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <904345.7074.qm@web55207.mail.re4.yahoo.com> The geek in me has always been curious as to the actual classification criteria that a researcher uses to make classification. Does anyone have them by name or PDF or hard copy? Or volunteer to explain the general scheme for different classes? Sounds like fodder for a met-times expose?. Elton From jan at meteorieten.com Sun Jun 22 16:29:32 2008 From: jan at meteorieten.com (Jan Bartels) Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 22:29:32 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Opinion needed !! Message-ID: <52062.85.145.6.103.1214166572.squirrel@webmail.uniserver.nl> Listoids... Thanks so far for your reactions on our "fifth" Dutch fall. The main comment was rust that was already covering the "impactor" and the minor damage the little creep caused. As always besides these comments it was the Germans with the most humour but hey...they live close to Holland so they had a good teacher!! Thanks Bernd and Alex... Thanks list !! I'll ask these folks to rent an airplane so it looks better if they throw it from a higher altitude. Have a good one all... Jan & Yvonne Bartels Heavenly bodies Meteorites Holland www.heavenlybodies.nl There are no limits to the limits of your imagination. Bono From jgrossman at usgs.gov Sun Jun 22 17:17:12 2008 From: jgrossman at usgs.gov (Jeff Grossman) Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 17:17:12 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Classification Criteria was Am I missing something here? In-Reply-To: <904345.7074.qm@web55207.mail.re4.yahoo.com> References: <904345.7074.qm@web55207.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: This question periodically comes up, and the answer is: there isn't one. The fact of the matter is that there is no "official" way of classifying meteorites (i.e., endorsed by a professional society or journal or other group). When it comes to publishing classifications, it is up to the authors and, ultimately, editors to decide what to do. The nearest thing to an "official" classification is what you see in the Meteoritical Bulletin. But this only looks official. Their Nomenclature Committee's (nomcom's) primary jurisdiction is only over meteorite names. Their classifications are simply a matter of their own editorial policy. The prevailing tradition on the nomcom is, however, a sensible one. They normally publish classifications that are consistent with common usage among scientists. They are normally conservative, meaning that they don't publish a new type of classification until it is obvious that at least a good part of the community has bought into it. They also mostly do not publish unusual classifications without reasonable evidence to support it. They use the literature as a guide to what criteria are necessary to demonstrate a given classification. There is usually enough expertise on the nomcom to do this by inspection or with a little reading. However, mistakes, oversights, and misjudgments can and do happen in this system, especially at the fringes of "common usage." As for the general scheme used, check out the Wikipedia Meteorite Classification page, which I largely wrote. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteorite_classification. For any given group, I may be able to give some insight into what criteria the nomcom has traditionally looked for. The two main references cited there (numbers 2 and 3) are both good classification papers that give a lot of details on the properties of the various groups. Unfortunately, both are chapters in expensive books, but pdf reprints can probably be obtained from the authors. Jeff At 04:16 PM 6/22/2008, Mr EMan wrote: >The geek in me has always been curious as to the >actual classification criteria that a researcher >uses to make classification. Does anyone have >them by name or PDF or hard copy? Or volunteer >to explain the general scheme for different >classes? Sounds like fodder for a met-times >expose??. Elton >______________________________________________ >http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list >mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703) 648-6184 US Geological Survey fax: (703) 648-6383 954 National Center Reston, VA 20192, USA From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Sun Jun 22 19:26:09 2008 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 18:26:09 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Classification Criteria was Am I missingsomething here? References: <904345.7074.qm@web55207.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <00aa01c8d4bf$5aa08350$2346e146@ATARIENGINE> Hi, Elton, List, I see Jeff Grossman has already replied, but I looked because I'd like to download a PDF like that myself. Here's the best of what I found: >From the Book "Meteorites and the Early Solar System" (2004), the chapter "Systematics and Evaluation of Meteorite Classification." Downloadable as a (34-page) PDF: http://www.lpi.usra.edu/books/MESSII/9014.pdf (I see that this is Reference #3 from the wikipedia article that Jeff Grossman referred to -- and recommended.) This is only readable online: "Meteorites, Comets and Planets, Vol.1" http://books.google.com/books?id=kYtksEUxw0oC&pg=PA84&lpg=PA84&dq=meteorite+classification+criteria+&source=web&ots=NEYI15fuq5&sig=eI2t355Y_wVkZ38He1xJhH5G7Us&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=8&ct=result#PPA232,M1 Sterling K. Webb -------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mr EMan" To: "Meteorite List" ; "Jeff Grossman" Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 3:16 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Classification Criteria was Am I missingsomething here? The geek in me has always been curious as to the actual classification criteria that a researcher uses to make classification. Does anyone have them by name or PDF or hard copy? Or volunteer to explain the general scheme for different classes? Sounds like fodder for a met-times expose?. Elton ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From pshugar at clearwire.net Sun Jun 22 21:12:16 2008 From: pshugar at clearwire.net (Pete Shugar) Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 20:12:16 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] An oddity in meteorites and their impact locations Message-ID: <000c01c8d4ce$2ec0fc10$0201a8c0@laptop> Since I collect Texas meteorites, I like reading and learning about them. I have stumbled upon a mystery, or shall I say, an intrigueing fact reguarding Texas meteorites. I acquired from Michael Blood a small micro of Monahans 1998. Now it's no surprise that there is another Monahans (1938). (I am looking for a 1/2 to 5 gr of this if anyone has it at a price I can afford.) It is a IIF iron. I began to wonder about the properties of a IIF as compared to a IAB CD or the IA Odessa or maybe the IIAB Fredericksburg. I noticed a link to other IIF meteorites. Thinking maybe one of these might be easier to obtain, I dinged the link. What came up was a list of 6 IIF meteorites, but the real kicker was the fact that three of the six are from Texas! They are: Monahans 1938, Del Rio, Tx, 1965 and Purmela, Tx 1977. It gets better! The three all fit inside a 300 mile circle!! That's a pretty high coincidence. The Monahans is the heaviest by a factor of about 7 times the weight of either of the other two. All are finds. Now I gotta wonder if they are from the same event? Should the meteor have come in low and from the (approx) Northwest and broke apart high enough, it might be possible.......? Any thoughts? Pete From mgsandy at sbcglobal.net Sun Jun 22 23:39:53 2008 From: mgsandy at sbcglobal.net (Michael Sandy) Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 20:39:53 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] "Field Guide to Meteors and Meteorites" now Available In-Reply-To: <000701c8d485$8304d510$6401a8c0@HAL> References: <000701c8d485$8304d510$6401a8c0@HAL> Message-ID: <000301c8d4e2$cd3f1520$67bd3f60$@net> Hi All, I got the same message from Amazon on the 14th of June and did nothing - I received my copy of the book from Amazon on Saturday (June 21) and was charged $26.37 (with no shipping costs). Nice book! Mike -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Charley Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 9:32 AM To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] "Field Guide to Meteors and Meteorites" now Available Hi all, I ordered mine on Amazon.com when Mike first alerted the list (April 15) that the book was soon to be available. The cost was to be $25.05 (including free shipping and the pre-order discount) . About a week and a half ago I received an email from Amazon telling me that there was a delay and asking me to respond if I was still interested. I responded in the affirmative and later received an email from Amazon that the new expected date was in late July. I just visited my Amazon order page and it shows that the anticipated shipping date is July 21 (and my pre-order discount has disappeared). Clicking on the book title takes me to the book description page where it is noted that the book is temporarily out of stock. Apparently Amazon is confused. Anyway, I've waited 2 months already so what is another month? It would be interesting to know if anyone actually receives the book before July 21. Best regards, Charley "Well, squids don't work. Hey! Let's try elephants !" Hannibal From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Mon Jun 23 08:32:49 2008 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 14:32:49 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Classification Criteria was Am Imissingsomething here? In-Reply-To: <00aa01c8d4bf$5aa08350$2346e146@ATARIENGINE> References: <904345.7074.qm@web55207.mail.re4.yahoo.com> <00aa01c8d4bf$5aa08350$2346e146@ATARIENGINE> Message-ID: <01c601c8d52d$3fda12c0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Maybe also the classification guidelines Ken Regelman is carrying together on his website is helpful: http://www.meteorites4sale.net/ (Click in the right menue on "guidelines" Greetings, Martin (just back from always hot hot hot Ensisheim) -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Sterling K. Webb Gesendet: Montag, 23. Juni 2008 01:26 An: Mr EMan; Meteorite List; Jeff Grossman Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Classification Criteria was Am Imissingsomething here? Hi, Elton, List, I see Jeff Grossman has already replied, but I looked because I'd like to download a PDF like that myself. Here's the best of what I found: >From the Book "Meteorites and the Early Solar System" (2004), the chapter "Systematics and Evaluation of Meteorite Classification." Downloadable as a (34-page) PDF: http://www.lpi.usra.edu/books/MESSII/9014.pdf (I see that this is Reference #3 from the wikipedia article that Jeff Grossman referred to -- and recommended.) This is only readable online: "Meteorites, Comets and Planets, Vol.1" http://books.google.com/books?id=kYtksEUxw0oC&pg=PA84&lpg=PA84&dq=meteorite+ classification+criteria+&source=web&ots=NEYI15fuq5&sig=eI2t355Y_wVkZ38He1xJh H5G7Us&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=8&ct=result#PPA232,M1 Sterling K. Webb -------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mr EMan" To: "Meteorite List" ; "Jeff Grossman" Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 3:16 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Classification Criteria was Am I missingsomething here? The geek in me has always been curious as to the actual classification criteria that a researcher uses to make classification. Does anyone have them by name or PDF or hard copy? Or volunteer to explain the general scheme for different classes? Sounds like fodder for a met-times expose?. Elton ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From star-bits at tx.rr.com Mon Jun 23 10:40:55 2008 From: star-bits at tx.rr.com (star-bits at tx.rr.com) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 10:40:55 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Moving and Ad - eBay auctions closing shortly Message-ID: <13475732.123821214232055552.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web02-z02> Greetings All I am moving back to Tucson and am suffering through the joys of packing. My web site is closed for the next month until I get set up again and this is my last eBay auction for a while too. So bid high and bid often because the movers are charging a fortune. Included are Mars shergottite crusted individual less than $110/gm Tagish Lake currently at $100/gm Allende 12.87 gram endcut currently at $3.27/gm Gibeon individual 361.6 grams NICE shape currently at $0.35/gm Polymict diogenite slice still less than 1/3 of what it is worth NWA 1930 LL3 with armored chondrule just over $1/gm as well as Vigarano, mundrabilla, oriented Erg Chech, seymchan and others. See them all at -- Eric Olson 7682 Firethorn Dr Fayetteville, NC 28311 http://www.star-bits.com From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Mon Jun 23 11:42:32 2008 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 23 Jun 2008 15:42:32 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] Opinion needed (forwarded message) Message-ID: Bernd and List, My exact same thoughts. There is another clue in this picture besides the weathered crust. Look at the plastic and metal next to the stone. If this were truly from an impact, these materials would show a lot of abrasion. Best, John At 10:55 AM 6/22/2008, bernd.pauli at paulinet.de wrote: Opinions welcome folks...Here are the pics... http://pic70.picturetrail.com/VOL1850/8117688/19931258/322341103.jpg http://pic70.picturetrail.com/VOL1850/8117688/19931258/322341193.jpg Hi Jan and List, Slightly weathered, fully crusted NWA (W1-2; S2-3) squeezed into the siding of a Dutch window frame! Bernd From gmhupe at htn.net Mon Jun 23 13:13:43 2008 From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 13:13:43 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Chergach H5-IMB 2 Lithologies Photos Message-ID: <022e01c8d554$7d6e9f30$8eb6fea9@Gregor> Dear List Members, I just returned from Morocco and Western Sahara a couple days ago. Of the few meteorites worth getting, I did get a single 362-gram Chergach H5-IMB stone which I cut and polished yesterday - AMAZING!! Here are some links to photos which show a distinct, shocked vein dividing the two different lithologies of H5 and Impact Melt Breccia (IMB). 39.9g cs http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/6-23/dsc00001.jpg 38.9g cs http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/6-23/dsc00002.jpg 38.3g cs http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/6-23/dsc00003.jpg 31.3g ec http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/6-23/dsc00004.jpg 26.1g ps http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/6-23/dsc00005.jpg 16.9g ps (Breccia lith. with part of shock vein) http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/6-23/dsc00006.jpg 14.6g ps http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/6-23/dsc00007.jpg 5.2g ps (H5 lith. with shock vein) http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/6-23/dsc00008.jpg 2.2g ps http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/6-23/dsc00009.jpg 1.6g ps http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/6-23/dsc00010.jpg 92.1g Complete with 99% crust http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/6-23/dsc00011.jpg 64.1g Complete with 100% crust http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/6-23/dsc00012.jpg cs-Complete Slice ps-Part Slice ec-End Cut I also got two excellent complete stones with fantastic fusion crust, one with a 15mm gunblue metal blob with flowlines protruding from the black crust. These weigh between 400-500 grams each. I traded my large scale while in Morocco so I can not get the exact weights until later this week. Here are the photos of these two beauties: Chergach #1 http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/6-23/chergach1.jpg Chergach #2 http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/6-23/chergach2.jpg Let me know what you think! Best regards, Greg ==================== Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmhupe at htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 ==================== Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault From gessler at ucla.edu Mon Jun 23 13:38:05 2008 From: gessler at ucla.edu (Nicholas Gessler) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 10:38:05 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] North Carolina meteoriticists and meteoritiphiles? Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20080623103719.0793ed60@ucla.edu> Hello All, I'm about to move to North Carolina to join the faculty in ISIS (Information Science and Information Studies) at Duke University... It will be a change from the great hunting in the California and Nevada deserts, but I'm anxious to find out if there are any meteorite folks in the area to work with... Cheers, Nick Nicholas Gessler gessler at ucla.edu http://gessler.bol.ucla.edu/finds.htm From cynapse at charter.net Mon Jun 23 14:25:49 2008 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 14:25:49 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Sigh In-Reply-To: <00e301c8d4f0$18305780$2346e146@ATARIENGINE> References: <004a01c8d415$8b737320$2346e146@ATARIENGINE> <00e301c8d4f0$18305780$2346e146@ATARIENGINE> Message-ID: "Liam's teacher Rachel Kaplan said, "I was really sad when Pluto was declassified as a planet, because I've studied astrology for a number of years."" http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,370213,00.html Pluto's Identity Crisis Hits Classrooms, Bookstores Pluto was once a planet. Then a dwarf planet. And, as of this month, a plutoid. The fall from grace has teachers, parents and educational publishers struggling to keep up, while kids remain loyal to their favorite, the ninth planet. Underscore "planet." On June 11, the International Astronomical Union (IAU) announced Pluto should now be called a "plutoid," two years after the organization voted to demote Pluto to "dwarf planet" status. Meanwhile, many kids are nearly certain Pluto is still a planet. "I think it's a planet. But me and my friends, we talk about it sometimes and we go back and forth," said Natalie Browning, 9, sitting in a park in Manhattan with her family. "Right now, I'm not 100 percent. I'm just 75 percent" sure that Pluto is a planet, she added. Natalie's mom, Bobbie Browning, said, "You've got kids with textbooks saying that Pluto is part of the solar system and a planet, and teachers have to say it isn't [a planet]." Science teachers and publishers already worked to update their resources to read "dwarf planet." And now, boom, that category is out of favor among astronomers. "Students who have just learned about the concept of dwarf planets must now be taught the new concept of 'plutoid,'" said Janis Milman, who teaches Earth Science at Thomas Stone High School in Maryland. "This will lead to confusion in the classroom and resistance to learning the new terms, because the students will question, 'Why learn something that might change again in a year or so?'" A cursory survey at a large chain bookstore here revealed three out of four books published in 2006 or later were updated, with Pluto designated as a dwarf planet and the solar system said to include just eight planets. Chronicles of Pluto Discovered in 1930 by Clyde W. Tombaugh at Lowell Observatory in Arizona, Pluto was always considered an oddball of sorts, with its tiny size (smaller than some moons) and eccentric orbit. During its 248-year trek around the sun, Pluto swings from its farthest point from the sun at 49.5 astronomical units (AU) to as close as 29 AU from the sun. One AU is the average distance between the Earth and sun, or about 93 million miles (150 million kilometers). More than 70 years later, in August 2006, 424 astronomers at an IAU meeting voted to demote Pluto to "dwarf planet" status. Two weeks ago, the IAU Executive Committee reclassified Pluto as a plutoid. The other object in the plutoid club, Eris, is larger and more massive than Pluto. Astronomers expect to find hundreds of Pluto-sized objects. And so the fate of Pluto will determine how these worlds are classified. For instance, new computer modeling suggests an object up to 70 percent of Earth's mass is lurking beyond Pluto. This "Planet X," if confirmed, would be called a plutoid under the IAU's scheme. No matter what the scientists say, many kids won't let go. "It's a planet," said fifth-grader Emily Mitchell, whose mother Laurie agreed, saying, "I grew up learning it was a planet." "It's the smallest planet," said Liam, a 4-year-old who is "about to be 5." Liam's teacher Rachel Kaplan said, "I was really sad when Pluto was declassified as a planet, because I've studied astrology for a number of years." Aileen Wilson said her 7-year-old son is interested in Pluto's label. "He's interested in why it was a planet and why it's not a planet anymore." "I know that it was demoted and it's not a planet. But I don't know what it's called," said Erin Kelly, a pre-school teacher sitting on a park bench with her students in New York. In the classroom Even as scientists are arguing over the "plutoid" designation, with some saying they won't use the term, educators are already latching onto it. Change is the name of the game in science, according to Gerry Wheeler, the executive director of the National Science Teachers Association. "Basically, it's a teachable moment for science teachers, because it shows the dynamic nature of science," Wheeler told SPACE.com. He added the NSTA will spread news of the plutoid category to science teachers in the fall. Elementary school science teacher Lucy Jensen agrees: "Pluto has made it interesting studying our planets this year." She teaches at Joliet Public School in Montana. "Our only problem we now have is buying new material, such as posters, videos, DVDs and game/study materials that need to be updated," she said. Jensen added that while her fourth-grade students were more upset than the third graders about Pluto's demotion, the parents were the most upset. "It is hard to teach old dogs new tricks, and we like what we know," she said. "Time has always been taken in the classroom to ponder the origin of Pluto. When Pluto became a dwarf planet, along with Eris and Ceres, it made it easier to explain why an object of Pluto's small stature could be classified," high-school teacher Milman said. "Now we will just need to teach them more new definitions." Milman added that "dwarf planets" is an easier term for students to grasp compared with plutoids. "Objects of Pluto, Eris and Ceres' size are too small to be called planets so they were called dwarf planets. That was easier for the students to understand," she said. Yet many students are still unaware of the change made in 2006. "My fourth graders still consider Pluto a planet," said Bev Grueber, a science teacher at North Bend Elementary in Nebraska. "We do extensive oral reports on the planets to meet a state standard, and everyone jumps for joy when they get Pluto. Last year, I left Pluto out of the draw and they asked where it was, so they still consider it a planet regardless of what the space scientists tell us the definition of that planet is." Aram Friedman, who founded Ansible Technologies Ltd. in New Jersey, travels to schools to teach about astronomy using a portable planetarium. In a typical fifth-grade class, he teaches students the features of the inner planets and the outer planets. Pluto, he says, doesn't fit into those categories. That makes sense to kids. Publishing lag Many science textbooks have only recently caught up with the dwarf planet concept. For publisher McGraw Hill Education, the 2008 elementary and secondary school science textbooks describe Pluto as a dwarf planet. Middle schools with the current Holt Science and Technology textbooks would see Pluto defined as a dwarf planet. McDougal Littell Science took a slightly different approach. "We didn't say how many planets there were, so we didn't have to make a lot of changes. We explained, historically, that it had been classified as a planet when it was discovered," said Dan Rogers, vice president and director of Holt McDougal's science and health product development. McDougal's teacher's edition included a detailed explanation of Pluto's dwarf planet status. "One of the reasons we were cautious is because we thought the whole thing was unresolved and was going to change again," Rogers said. "We're in the process of developing a brand new program, a new set of books." In "Traveler's Guide to the Solar System," an astronomy book published in 2007 for kids age 8 to 10, the author notes, "Earth is the third of nine planets (some say eight, some say ten, but nine is kind of traditional), orbiting our local star, the Sun." Starry Night, astronomy software that includes educational resources, refers to Pluto as a dwarf planet, according to content director Pedro Braganca. (Starry Night is a division of Imaginova Corp., which also owns SPACE.com.) And soon, educational publishers may need to re-update material. Word has it astronomers are vowing to pursue a reinstatement of Pluto as a planet. Copyright ? 2008 Imaginova Corp. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed. From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Mon Jun 23 14:28:04 2008 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 11:28:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Classification Criteria-- Abstract In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <979188.34575.qm@web55201.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Thanks Folks! Very appreciated responses. To sum up what was read. The system of classification of meteorites is an evolving system which seeks to adapt as new knowledge is gained. The "stoney, stoney-iron, iron" historical classification is so passe? in the light of modern analytical tools. There is a "tool box" of standard mineralogical test using common lab equipment plus a few specialized ones. Based on an initial subject matter expert visual inspection, a menu of tests are selected to determine content: mineral, elemental, and isotopic proportions. While not specifically stated, I assume that standard lab practice dictates the number and location of sample sites for micro probe testing, for example. As with most things there are exceptions and not all tests, in all circumstances, are definitive in discriminating all classifications so alternate or supplemental tests are employed to refine classification else remove ambiguities. Numbers used such as 3.1, 3.3, 5 etc are only "nominal"--names for certain values. They do not represent equal intervals. For Example, a "3" is not half a "6". A "point" 1 is not a mathematical value but a "name" for a secondary measurement just like "H" and "5" are respective names for ranges of values. They are naming conventions that represent associated, but not equal, data ranges for various aspects of mineralogy. This is akin to a model number on a washing machine. Each character means something specific about the washer but is not a sequential number. When all the testing data is charted, the researcher looks for a best overall "fit" within plots of all other meteorites, especially those established clans the specimen appears belong to. If the fit is cleanly within all normalized values, a call can be made. On a side note I deduce, meteorites which have multiple lithologies not seen in a single sample, are sometimes given two separate classifications by two independent researchers. In this case, for the time being, our approval system doesn't pass judgment or try to resolve differences. In effect both researchers are right. When there isn't a clean fit of data plots--If merited by a data points falling outside the envelope, the researcher should consult other specialists prior to publishing a classification. Sometimes this results in a sub-grouping or un-grouping classification awaiting other similar specimens to arrive. The McCoy paper Sterling gave the link to answered a lot of questions. I see that Jeff was a major contributor. Thanks again to all for that great insider's perspective. Elton From lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu Mon Jun 23 14:41:40 2008 From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu (lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 11:41:40 -0700 (MST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Sigh In-Reply-To: References: <004a01c8d415$8b737320$2346e146@ATARIENGINE> <00e301c8d4f0$18305780$2346e146@ATARIENGINE> Message-ID: <1311.128.196.250.86.1214246500.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> Hi All: In mid-Auguest there will be a conference held in Maryland: The Great Planet Debate: Science as Process. I will be there and will be presenting as a scientist and science educator. I hope to write this up as an article for the November issue of Meteorite. Dispite the IAU, this is not a dead issue. Larry On Mon, June 23, 2008 11:25 am, Darren Garrison wrote: > "Liam's teacher Rachel Kaplan said, "I was really sad when Pluto was > declassified as a planet, because I've studied astrology for a number of > years."" > > http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,370213,00.html > > > Pluto's Identity Crisis Hits Classrooms, Bookstores > > > Pluto was once a planet. Then a dwarf planet. And, as of this month, a > plutoid. > > The fall from grace has teachers, parents and educational publishers > struggling to keep up, while kids remain loyal to their favorite, the > ninth planet. Underscore "planet." > > > On June 11, the International Astronomical Union (IAU) announced Pluto > should now be called a "plutoid," two years after the organization voted > to demote Pluto to "dwarf planet" status. > > > Meanwhile, many kids are nearly certain Pluto is still a planet. > > > "I think it's a planet. But me and my friends, we talk about it sometimes > and we go back and forth," said Natalie Browning, 9, sitting in a park in > Manhattan > with her family. > > "Right now, I'm not 100 percent. I'm just 75 percent" sure that Pluto is > a planet, she added. > > Natalie's mom, Bobbie Browning, said, "You've got kids with textbooks > saying that Pluto is part of the solar system and a planet, and teachers > have to say it isn't [a planet]." > > Science teachers and publishers already worked to update their resources > to read "dwarf planet." And now, boom, that category is out of favor among > astronomers. > > "Students who have just learned about the concept of dwarf planets must > now be taught the new concept of 'plutoid,'" said Janis Milman, who > teaches Earth Science at Thomas Stone High School in Maryland. "This will > lead to confusion in the classroom and resistance to learning the new > terms, because the students will question, 'Why learn something that might > change again in a year or so?'" > > A cursory survey at a large chain bookstore here revealed three out of > four books published in 2006 or later were updated, with Pluto designated > as a dwarf planet and the solar system said to include just eight planets. > > > Chronicles of Pluto > > > Discovered in 1930 by Clyde W. Tombaugh at Lowell Observatory in Arizona, > Pluto > was always considered an oddball of sorts, with its tiny size (smaller > than some moons) and eccentric orbit. > > During its 248-year trek around the sun, Pluto swings from its farthest > point from the sun at 49.5 astronomical units (AU) to as close as 29 AU > from the sun. > > One AU is the average distance between the Earth and sun, or about 93 > million miles (150 million kilometers). > > More than 70 years later, in August 2006, 424 astronomers at an IAU > meeting voted to demote Pluto to "dwarf planet" status. > > Two weeks ago, the IAU Executive Committee reclassified Pluto as a > plutoid. The other object in the plutoid club, Eris, is larger and more > massive than Pluto. > > Astronomers expect to find hundreds of Pluto-sized objects. And so the > fate of Pluto will determine how these worlds are classified. > > > For instance, new computer modeling suggests an object up to 70 percent > of Earth's mass is lurking beyond Pluto. This "Planet X," if confirmed, > would be called a plutoid under the IAU's scheme. > > No matter what the scientists say, many kids won't let go. > > > "It's a planet," said fifth-grader Emily Mitchell, whose mother Laurie > agreed, saying, "I grew up learning it was a planet." > > "It's the smallest planet," said Liam, a 4-year-old who is "about to be > 5." > > > Liam's teacher Rachel Kaplan said, "I was really sad when Pluto was > declassified as a planet, because I've studied astrology for a number of > years." > > Aileen Wilson said her 7-year-old son is interested in Pluto's label. > "He's > interested in why it was a planet and why it's not a planet anymore." > > "I know that it was demoted and it's not a planet. But I don't know what > it's called," said Erin Kelly, a pre-school teacher sitting on a park > bench with her students in New York. > > In the classroom > > > Even as scientists are arguing over the "plutoid" designation, with some > saying they won't use the term, educators are already latching onto it. > > Change is the name of the game in science, according to Gerry Wheeler, > the executive director of the National Science Teachers Association. > > "Basically, it's a teachable moment for science teachers, because it > shows the dynamic nature of science," Wheeler told SPACE.com. > > He added the NSTA will spread news of the plutoid category to science > teachers in the fall. > > Elementary school science teacher Lucy Jensen agrees: "Pluto has made it > interesting studying our planets this year." She teaches at Joliet Public > School > in Montana. > > "Our only problem we now have is buying new material, such as posters, > videos, DVDs and game/study materials that need to be updated," she said. > > > Jensen added that while her fourth-grade students were more upset than > the third graders about Pluto's demotion, the parents were the most upset. > > > "It is hard to teach old dogs new tricks, and we like what we know," she > said. > > "Time has always been taken in the classroom to ponder the origin of > Pluto. When > Pluto became a dwarf planet, along with Eris and Ceres, it made it easier > to explain why an object of Pluto's small stature could be classified," > high-school teacher Milman said. "Now we will just need to teach them more > new definitions." > > Milman added that "dwarf planets" is an easier term for students to grasp > compared with plutoids. > > "Objects of Pluto, Eris and Ceres' size are too small to be called > planets so they were called dwarf planets. That was easier for the > students to understand," she said. > > Yet many students are still unaware of the change made in 2006. > > > "My fourth graders still consider Pluto a planet," said Bev Grueber, a > science teacher at North Bend Elementary in Nebraska. "We do extensive > oral reports on the planets to meet a state standard, and everyone jumps > for joy when they get Pluto. Last year, I left Pluto out of the draw and > they asked where it was, so they still consider it a planet regardless of > what the space scientists tell us the definition of that planet is." > > Aram Friedman, who founded Ansible Technologies Ltd. in New Jersey, > travels to schools to teach about astronomy using a portable planetarium. > In a typical > fifth-grade class, he teaches students the features of the inner planets > and the outer planets. > > Pluto, he says, doesn't fit into those categories. That makes sense to > kids. > > Publishing lag > > > Many science textbooks have only recently caught up with the dwarf planet > concept. > > For publisher McGraw Hill Education, the 2008 elementary and secondary > school science textbooks describe Pluto as a dwarf planet. > > Middle schools with the current Holt Science and Technology textbooks > would see Pluto defined as a dwarf planet. McDougal Littell Science took a > slightly different approach. > > "We didn't say how many planets there were, so we didn't have to make a > lot of changes. We explained, historically, that it had been classified as > a planet when it was discovered," said Dan Rogers, vice president and > director of Holt McDougal's science and health product development. > > > McDougal's teacher's edition included a detailed explanation of Pluto's > dwarf planet status. > > "One of the reasons we were cautious is because we thought the whole > thing was unresolved and was going to change again," Rogers said. "We're > in the process of developing a brand new program, a new set of books." > > In "Traveler's Guide to the Solar System," an astronomy book published in > 2007 > for kids age 8 to 10, the author notes, "Earth is the third of nine > planets (some say eight, some say ten, but nine is kind of traditional), > orbiting our local star, the Sun." > > Starry Night, astronomy software that includes educational resources, > refers to Pluto as a dwarf planet, according to content director Pedro > Braganca. (Starry > Night is a division of Imaginova Corp., which also owns SPACE.com.) > > > And soon, educational publishers may need to re-update material. Word has > it astronomers are vowing to pursue a reinstatement of Pluto as a planet. > > Copyright ? 2008 Imaginova Corp. All Rights Reserved. This material may > not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed. > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From cynapse at charter.net Mon Jun 23 14:57:16 2008 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 14:57:16 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Sigh In-Reply-To: <1311.128.196.250.86.1214246500.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> References: <004a01c8d415$8b737320$2346e146@ATARIENGINE> <00e301c8d4f0$18305780$2346e146@ATARIENGINE> <1311.128.196.250.86.1214246500.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 11:41:40 -0700 (MST), you wrote: >I will be there and will be presenting as a scientist and science >educator. I hope to write this up as an article for the November issue of >Meteorite. Hopefully, your audience will include science teachers who know the difference between astronomy and astrology. From azizhabibi at yahoo.com Mon Jun 23 16:31:28 2008 From: azizhabibi at yahoo.com (habibi abdelaziz) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 13:31:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: a nicely orionted unclassified achondrite Message-ID: <587712.12799.qm@web62009.mail.re1.yahoo.com> hi all, here is a nice stone for sales , 1250 gr unclassified achondrite, has some flow lines and a nice shape,orionted , has 60/100 crust. look very crystalized inside, please email your offer , http://www.flickr.com/photos/azizhabibi/ see 1250 gr achondrite album,, thanks aziz habibi aziz box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco phone. 21235576145 fax.21235576170 _____________________________________________________________________________ Envoyez avec Yahoo! Mail. Une boite mail plus intelligente http://mail.yahoo.fr From mexicodoug at aim.com Mon Jun 23 16:48:04 2008 From: mexicodoug at aim.com (mexicodoug at aim.com) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 16:48:04 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Sigh In-Reply-To: References: <004a01c8d415$8b737320$2346e146@ATARIENGINE> <00e301c8d4f0$18305780$2346e146@ATARIENGINE> <1311.128.196.250.86.1214246500.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> Message-ID: <8CAA389913CB4F5-DEC-DEE@WEBMAIL-MA01.sysops.aol.com> Darren wrote: "Hopefully, your audience will include science teachers who know the difference between astronomy and astrology. Hi Darren, I'm sure she know the difference - you'd have to put both the teacher and the writer of the article in the same room to debate. Then you could be sure why the article was worded the way it was. And besides, some of the greatest astronomers of all time were astrologers, and the entire Cristian faith justified its begining with an astrological signal among the WISE MEN ... a.k.a. ASTROLOGERS. To them we owe our early understanding of the heavens and plenty more. Sure it sounds about as dumb as calling a meteoriticist a meteorologist. But it took meteorologists to set the foundation for and beget meteoriticists. Actually IMO modern day Nancy Reagan type astrologers, and only in my very personal opinion, are the same as meteorite collectors that are interested in collecting names of meteorites like stamps, wishing for a Lunar fall in your back yard, and needing to own a piece of the rock that fell on some anniversary. I'm guilty of all three of the above in addition to possibly more respectable scientific pursuits, plus many of the astrologer things, like being blown away by a beautiful Crescent Moon next to Venus, and getting rambunctious and silly whenever there is a full Moon blazing above a country horizon. It's easy for city folk to laugh at that under muddied skies they've made - when they can't see the mountains or building five kilometers away, but astrology has a very interesting history and we don't have to be so harsh on the poor teacher who was set up by the naughty author of the article. After all, it is what is in her heart that counts ... and how well she motivates her kids to reach out ... something she seems to be doing well judging by the comments ... Or did the IAU in their "in-your-face" wisdom just outlaw astrologers, too? Best wishes, Doug -----Original Message----- From: Darren Garrison To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Sent: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 1:57 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Sigh On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 11:41:40 -0700 (MST), you wrote: >I will be there and will be presenting as a scientist and science >educator. I hope to write this up as an article for the November issue of >Meteorite. Hopefully, your audience will include science teachers who know the difference between astronomy and astrology. ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From cynapse at charter.net Mon Jun 23 17:40:20 2008 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 17:40:20 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Sigh In-Reply-To: <8CAA389913CB4F5-DEC-DEE@WEBMAIL-MA01.sysops.aol.com> References: <004a01c8d415$8b737320$2346e146@ATARIENGINE> <00e301c8d4f0$18305780$2346e146@ATARIENGINE> <1311.128.196.250.86.1214246500.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> <8CAA389913CB4F5-DEC-DEE@WEBMAIL-MA01.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 16:48:04 -0400, you wrote: >And besides, some of the greatest astronomers of all time were >astrologers, and the entire Cristian faith justified its begining with >an astrological signal among the WISE MEN ... a.k.a. ASTROLOGERS. To >them we owe our early understanding of the heavens and plenty more. > Believing in incorrect theories in the absence of enough evidence is one thing-- cointinuing to believe in faulty theories even in the face of knowledge is a world of difference. 15th century astrologers I have no problem with. 21st century astrologers get nothing but the deepest scorn and contempt from me. Let me be even more blunt-- anyone in any modern, industrial country with access to a decent education who believes in astrology is a f*****g nitwit. (I could say similar things about another of your examples, but don't want to open THAT can of worms). >Or did the IAU in their "in-your-face" wisdom just outlaw astrologers, >too? If they do, I'll chip in for some barbed wire to go around the internment center. From cmb62 at columbus.rr.com Mon Jun 23 17:51:56 2008 From: cmb62 at columbus.rr.com (Charley) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 17:51:56 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] "Field Guide to Meteors and Meteorites" now Available References: <000701c8d485$8304d510$6401a8c0@HAL> <000301c8d4e2$cd3f1520$67bd3f60$@net> Message-ID: <000901c8d57b$5b5a2ff0$6401a8c0@HAL> Hi All, I followed Doug's suggestions and recieved a very apologetic email from Amazon. They subtracted the credit amount again so that I'll pay $25.05 whenever the book arrives. The rep advised that they are trying very hard to fill my order and if a shipment comes in they will ship a copy to me even if the estimated ship date has not arrived. I'm betting on the last week of July. Hey , maybe we can have a pool ! Best regards, Charley "Well, squids don't work. Hey! Let's try elephants !" Hannibal Michael Sandy wrote: > Hi All, > > I got the same message from Amazon on the 14th of June and did > nothing - I received my copy of the book from Amazon on Saturday > (June 21) and was charged $26.37 (with no shipping costs). Nice book! > > Mike > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of > Charley Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 9:32 AM > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] "Field Guide to Meteors and Meteorites" > now Available > > Hi all, > > I ordered mine on Amazon.com when Mike first alerted the list (April > 15) that the book was soon to be available. The cost was to be $25.05 > (including free shipping and the pre-order discount) . About a week > and a half ago I received an email from Amazon telling me that there > was a > delay and asking me to respond if I was still interested. I responded > in the > > affirmative and later received an email from Amazon that the new > expected date was in late July. I just visited my Amazon order page > and it shows that > > the anticipated shipping date is July 21 (and my pre-order discount > has disappeared). Clicking on the book title takes me to the book > description page where it is noted that the book is temporarily out > of stock. > > Apparently Amazon is confused. Anyway, I've waited 2 months already > so what is another month? > > It would be interesting to know if anyone actually receives the book > before July 21. > > Best regards, > > Charley > > "Well, squids don't work. Hey! Let's > try elephants !" > > Hannibal From Gibeon at aol.com Mon Jun 23 18:17:16 2008 From: Gibeon at aol.com (Gibeon at aol.com) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 18:17:16 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Ensisheim 2008 - new photos Message-ID: Hello list, here are my photos from the Ensisheim show last weekend. As usual we had a great time there, that?s what the photos confirm. I met many new people this year that start to collect meteorites. You will find the pictures on my new homepage at http://www.strufe.net go with your mouse cursor on the top at ?Foto-Galerien? and the sign for Ensisheim 2008 is coming up, there you see the 5 pages on the right with the photos or copy the following link into your browser http://www.strufe.net/0334af9a5a0cf8e1d/0334af9aa309ad327/0334af9aa309bf62c/in dex.html Best regards Hanno Strufe Langenbergstrasse 32 66954 Pirmasens Germany Phone + Fax: +49 6331 225 105 www.strufe.net IMCA #4267 From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Mon Jun 23 18:32:39 2008 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 00:32:39 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Sigh In-Reply-To: References: <004a01c8d415$8b737320$2346e146@ATARIENGINE> <00e301c8d4f0$18305780$2346e146@ATARIENGINE> <1311.128.196.250.86.1214246500.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu><8CAA389913CB4F5-DEC-DEE@WEBMAIL-MA01.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <023501c8d581$0c076d90$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Well Darren, to say it more diplomatically, the astrology of 20th and 21th century hasn't much to do with the astrology of the 3000 years before. Until the early modern period there was no distinction between astronomy and astrology. Today's astrology is a compared to old astrology extremely truncated, a poor knock-off. The psychological "interpretation" and style, the reduction to personal fates is a completely new invention. ...as well as the adding of the modern planets Uranus, Neptun and plutoid Pluto (linguistic accident, what IAU produced there. Earthids Earth, Mercury, Mars and Venus. Jupiteroid, Iovid Jupiter, Saturn...)and their attributes. Hey, I saw even horoscopes integrating Vesta! Well the combination of the attributes of the classic planets, cold - hot, fast - slow, dry - wet, was given by the distance of the spheres, Soooo imagine now, one would use all the tens of thousands of known objects from the asteroid belt for a horoscope! Because they have more or less the same distances they would have all the same astrological properties and effects, and they are quite even distributed in the plane of ecliptic, moving with similar speeds. Therefore no matter for which point of time or place of birth, and because the thousands of asteroids would outweigh the few other planets, - each and every horoscope would be absolutely uniform and the same! And astrologist would be an even more comfort job, hehe... What I wanted to say, the only justification astrology could have, is the tradition and its history, but modern astrology had negated this only straws. And if someone, as it happened here in Europe, is just taking a very few rules from an old Greco-islamic astrology manual, like you can find it in the manuscripts collections of each university, and sells them in books as an immemorial secret of old mountain farmers in some forgotten Tyrolean valleys living with the Moon, to become a millionaire, Then I'd say: It's a Big Cheat! Best! Martin PS: Who will be soon the astrologer of the inhabitants of the arctic circles. (Cause, hehe, if you take the method of Regiomontanus to draw the great circles of the houses, there aren't directly many left for people born in the high North or deep South - and they have all the same astrological fate!) PPS: Doug, I guess minimum 90% of all astrologers wouldn't be able to identify the ecliptic, or even the major planets on the night sky. -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Darren Garrison Gesendet: Montag, 23. Juni 2008 23:40 An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Sigh On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 16:48:04 -0400, you wrote: >And besides, some of the greatest astronomers of all time were >astrologers, and the entire Cristian faith justified its begining with >an astrological signal among the WISE MEN ... a.k.a. ASTROLOGERS. To >them we owe our early understanding of the heavens and plenty more. > Believing in incorrect theories in the absence of enough evidence is one thing-- cointinuing to believe in faulty theories even in the face of knowledge is a world of difference. 15th century astrologers I have no problem with. 21st century astrologers get nothing but the deepest scorn and contempt from me. Let me be even more blunt-- anyone in any modern, industrial country with access to a decent education who believes in astrology is a f*****g nitwit. (I could say similar things about another of your examples, but don't want to open THAT can of worms). >Or did the IAU in their "in-your-face" wisdom just outlaw astrologers, >too? If they do, I'll chip in for some barbed wire to go around the internment center. ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From gredfern at earthlink.net Mon Jun 23 18:59:37 2008 From: gredfern at earthlink.net (Greg Redfern) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 18:59:37 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Call for Articles for the November issue ofMeteorite magazine In-Reply-To: <56987.71.226.60.25.1213977879.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> Message-ID: <000501c8d584$cfd3c220$c2dffea9@gregufeopu010a> A bit off topic....LRO/LCROSS mission to the Moon??? Greg Redfern NASA JPL Solar System Ambassador http://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/ambassador/index.html WHAT'S UP?: THE SPACE PLACE http://www.wtopnews.com/?sid=600113&nid=421 ASTROCAST http://astrocast.tv/ -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 12:05 PM To: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Call for Articles for the November issue ofMeteorite magazine Hello Everyone: Happy Summer Solstice! We hope that you enjoyed the May issue of Meteorite. We have just finished editing the August issue. The articles that are in the queue are all very interesting and I am sure you will enjoy them. Some articles are from long-time authors and others are from first or second time authors. Now, guess what? Yes, it is that time again! It is time to start thinking about writing an article for the November issue of Meteorite. The next deadline is August 18. Just in time to tell us about your summer meteorite hunts, your summer reading (a book review), etc. There are a number of you who "put off" submitting articles, so I will be getting back to you very soon. Articles can be anywhere from about 1,000 words up to 2,500 words (or a little longer) with 4 or 5 pictures. A good picture might even make it to the cover! We also welcome book reviews and letters to the editors. Please consider writing an article. If you are not sure, contact us! We hope to hear from you soon. Larry and Nancy Lebofsky Editors, Meteorite magazine ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu Mon Jun 23 20:00:53 2008 From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu (lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 17:00:53 -0700 (MST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Call for Articles for the November issue ofMeteorite magazine In-Reply-To: <000501c8d584$cfd3c220$c2dffea9@gregufeopu010a> References: <56987.71.226.60.25.1213977879.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> <000501c8d584$cfd3c220$c2dffea9@gregufeopu010a> Message-ID: <53836.71.226.60.25.1214265653.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> Hi Greg: LRO and/or LCROSS I think would be of interest to the readership. Are you offering to write something? Thanks for astrocast, etc. Larry On Mon, June 23, 2008 3:59 pm, Greg Redfern wrote: > A bit off topic....LRO/LCROSS mission to the Moon??? > > > Greg Redfern > NASA JPL Solar System Ambassador > http://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/ambassador/index.html > WHAT'S UP?: THE SPACE PLACE > http://www.wtopnews.com/?sid=600113&nid=421 > ASTROCAST > http://astrocast.tv/ > > > -----Original Message----- > From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of > lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 12:05 PM > To: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: [meteorite-list] Call for Articles for the November issue > ofMeteorite magazine > > Hello Everyone: > > > Happy Summer Solstice! > > > We hope that you enjoyed the May issue of Meteorite. We have just > finished editing the August issue. The articles that are in the queue are > all very interesting and I am sure you will enjoy them. Some articles are > from long-time authors and others are from first or second time authors. > > Now, guess what? > > > Yes, it is that time again! It is time to start thinking about writing > an article for the November issue of Meteorite. The next deadline is August > 18. Just in time to tell us about your summer meteorite hunts, your > summer reading (a book review), etc. > > There are a number of you who "put off" submitting articles, so I will > be getting back to you very soon. Articles can be anywhere from about 1,000 > words up to 2,500 words (or a little longer) with 4 or 5 pictures. A good > picture might even make it to the cover! We also welcome book reviews and > letters to the editors. > > Please consider writing an article. If you are not sure, contact us! We > hope to hear from you soon. > > Larry and Nancy Lebofsky > Editors, Meteorite magazine > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com Mon Jun 23 21:34:23 2008 From: michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com (Michael Gilmer) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 18:34:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Lighten up, it's just semantics In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <836547.78645.qm@web58406.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Geez, lighten up a little bit. What has any astrologer ever done to you? Did one kick your dog or something? Life is too short to get bent out of shape over such things. --------------------- Message: 9 Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 17:40:20 -0400 From: Darren Garrison Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Sigh To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 16:48:04 -0400, you wrote: >And besides, some of the greatest astronomers of all time were >astrologers, and the entire Cristian faith justified its begining with >an astrological signal among the WISE MEN ... a.k.a. ASTROLOGERS. To >them we owe our early understanding of the heavens and plenty more. > Believing in incorrect theories in the absence of enough evidence is one thing-- cointinuing to believe in faulty theories even in the face of knowledge is a world of difference. 15th century astrologers I have no problem with. 21st century astrologers get nothing but the deepest scorn and contempt from me. Let me be even more blunt-- anyone in any modern, industrial country with access to a decent education who believes in astrology is a f*****g nitwit. (I could say similar things about another of your examples, but don't want to open THAT can of worms). >Or did the IAU in their "in-your-face" wisdom just outlaw astrologers, >too? If they do, I'll chip in for some barbed wire to go around the internment center. ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale .......................................................... From gredfern at earthlink.net Mon Jun 23 22:07:08 2008 From: gredfern at earthlink.net (Greg Redfern) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 22:07:08 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Call for Articles for the November issue ofMeteorite magazine In-Reply-To: <53836.71.226.60.25.1214265653.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> Message-ID: <001201c8d59f$022b5610$c2dffea9@gregufeopu010a> Hi Larry, Yes I am. I am supporting both missions as an SSA and I have already written a feature article for Sky & Telescope Magazine that will be in their November issue. I have enough research material and pics to write another original LRO/LCROSS story for Meteorite if you so desire. All the best, Greg Greg Redfern NASA JPL Solar System Ambassador http://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/ambassador/index.html WHAT'S UP?: THE SPACE PLACE http://www.wtopnews.com/?sid=600113&nid=421 ASTROCAST http://astrocast.tv/ -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 8:01 PM To: Greg Redfern Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Call for Articles for the November issue ofMeteorite magazine Hi Greg: LRO and/or LCROSS I think would be of interest to the readership. Are you offering to write something? Thanks for astrocast, etc. Larry On Mon, June 23, 2008 3:59 pm, Greg Redfern wrote: > A bit off topic....LRO/LCROSS mission to the Moon??? > > > Greg Redfern > NASA JPL Solar System Ambassador > http://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/ambassador/index.html > WHAT'S UP?: THE SPACE PLACE > http://www.wtopnews.com/?sid=600113&nid=421 > ASTROCAST > http://astrocast.tv/ > > > -----Original Message----- > From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of > lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 12:05 PM > To: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: [meteorite-list] Call for Articles for the November issue > ofMeteorite magazine > > Hello Everyone: > > > Happy Summer Solstice! > > > We hope that you enjoyed the May issue of Meteorite. We have just > finished editing the August issue. The articles that are in the queue are > all very interesting and I am sure you will enjoy them. Some articles are > from long-time authors and others are from first or second time authors. > > Now, guess what? > > > Yes, it is that time again! It is time to start thinking about writing > an article for the November issue of Meteorite. The next deadline is August > 18. Just in time to tell us about your summer meteorite hunts, your > summer reading (a book review), etc. > > There are a number of you who "put off" submitting articles, so I will > be getting back to you very soon. Articles can be anywhere from about 1,000 > words up to 2,500 words (or a little longer) with 4 or 5 pictures. A good > picture might even make it to the cover! We also welcome book reviews and > letters to the editors. > > Please consider writing an article. If you are not sure, contact us! We > hope to hear from you soon. > > Larry and Nancy Lebofsky > Editors, Meteorite magazine > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From cynapse at charter.net Mon Jun 23 22:23:48 2008 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 22:23:48 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Lighten up, it's just semantics In-Reply-To: <836547.78645.qm@web58406.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <836547.78645.qm@web58406.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 18:34:23 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: > >Life is too short to get bent out of shape over such >things. Okay, which massively popular antiscientific, antieducational idiocies is it okay to get bent out of shape of, and which should be simply allowed to fester like the oozing diseases that they are? Why is it so bad to wish-- with the vast amounts of information available to hundreds of millions of the world's population at a few keystrokes-- that the majority of those people still didn't have the intellectual depth beyond that of a medieval pesant? In an age when there is far more information available to far more people than at any other time in human history, most people choose to be barely literate twits. Shouldn't that bend one out of shape? Would not the world be much better off if more people with access to an education choose to educate themselves? People living in horrible conditions in horrible thrid world countries I can excuse for still living in superstition and ignorance. People that live in rich first world countries have no excuse. From info at niger-meteorite-recon.de Tue Jun 24 00:38:02 2008 From: info at niger-meteorite-recon.de (Svend Buhl - Meteorite-Recon.com) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 06:38:02 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ensisheim 2008 - new photos Message-ID: <28318837.71381214282282203.JavaMail.servlet@kundenserver> great photos Hanno, thanks for sharing! Svend www.meteorite-recon.com ------------------------- Hello list, here are my photos from the Ensisheim show last weekend. As usual we had a great time there, that?s what the photos confirm. I met many new people this year that start to collect meteorites. You will find the pictures on my new homepage at http://www.strufe.net go with your mouse cursor on the top at ?Foto-Galerien? and the sign for Ensisheim 2008 is coming up, there you see the 5 pages on the right with the photos or copy the following link into your browser http://www.strufe.net/0334af9a5a0cf8e1d/0334af9aa309ad327/0334af9aa309bf62c/in dex.html Best regards Hanno Strufe Langenbergstrasse 32 66954 Pirmasens Germany Phone + Fax: +49 6331 225 105 www.strufe.net IMCA #4267 ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- www.meteorite-recon.com From mexicodoug at aim.com Tue Jun 24 01:22:07 2008 From: mexicodoug at aim.com (mexicodoug at aim.com) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 01:22:07 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Lighten up, it's just semantics In-Reply-To: <836547.78645.qm@web58406.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CAA3D15FC4BC4C-11C4-1F99@webmail-de08.sysops.aol.com> Hi Mike, Martin and Darren, Everyone, Hi everyone, it seems very ironic to me that the entire Pluto affair/scandal/debate/boondoggle seems to be a bunch of serious scientists emulating modern day astrologers in the name of science. Pluto's status is strictly an astrological question whether viewed historically, currently, or even philosophically. IAU has managed to do more astrology than all of the world's astrologers combined lately. To Mike I appreciate your (IMO) sage comment of tolerance of people's quirks and opinions, not to mention the whole issue of why the word astrologer crept in, we really can't know now. Just because it resembles something we all enjoy is no reason to bent out of shape and make astrologers walk the plank to be scientists or forget the whole thing. To Darren, You sure sound like you would fit right in with the Grand Inquisitor (Head of the Middle Age Inquisition). I disagree with putting astrologers in retention compounds sequestered with barbed wire, just for being a little romantic and making up whatever stuff they do to make themselves happy. To Martin, if astrologers are such a bane, why is it that they seem to have a knack for impressing many nice girls where scientists fail miserably...have you ever discussed you Zodiac sign with a prospective or actual loved one - and has it helped in some way? When do we go to Chinese restaurants and get red-faced about the year of the Dragon and all of that stuff, I'd be surprised if someone said, "those bad Chinese", "Off with their heads and don't read that or your nose will get gangrene and you'll never be published in MAPS?" ...and I'll keep quiet for the rest, where Darren was wise not to tread ... Best wishes Doug -----Original Message----- From: Michael Gilmer To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Sent: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 8:34 pm Subject: [meteorite-list] Lighten up, it's just semantics Geez, lighten up a little bit. What has any astrologer ever done to you? Did one kick your dog or something? Life is too short to get bent out of shape over such things. --------------------- Message: 9 Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 17:40:20 -0400 From: Darren Garrison Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Sigh To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 16:48:04 -0400, you wrote: >And besides, some of the greatest astronomers of all time were >astrologers, and the entire Cristian faith justified its begining with >an astrological signal among the WISE MEN ... a.k.a. ASTROLOGERS. To >them we owe our early understanding of the heavens and plenty more. > Believing in incorrect theories in the absence of enough evidence is one thing-- cointinuing to believe in faulty theories even in the face of knowledge is a world of difference. 15th century astrologers I have no problem with. 21st century astrologers get nothing but the deepest scorn and contempt from me. Let me be even more blunt-- anyone in any modern, industrial country with access to a decent education who believes in astrology is a f*****g nitwit. (I could say similar things about another of your examples, but don't want to open THAT can of worms). >Or did the IAU in their "in-your-face" wisdom just outlaw astrologers, >too? If they do, I'll chip in for some barbed wire to go around the internment center. ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale .......................................................... ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Tue Jun 24 01:48:21 2008 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 22:48:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Lighten up, it's just semantics OT Hoot In-Reply-To: <836547.78645.qm@web58406.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <396850.34218.qm@web55204.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Well I can see that Garrison's house is in Mars with a Bad Moon is rising. Too bad the demoted Pluto is no longer influencing the encirclement of Saturn thus giving rise to an opening for a a negative ancillary vibration bouncing off Venus... Elton OK I am but a novice "astro-logger" and could never hope to be as accomplished as the following expert. This posting was made to a ahem.."scientific list" elsewhere regarding Dolphins beaching themselves: (Notice the dates mentioned June 21-22 came and went without the headlines forecasted) Astrologically, this tags well with transiting Uranus ruler of the brainy sign of Aquarius (a human sign and an Air sign) currently in Pisces (the most fishy of the Water signs) recently under multiple squares from the faster moving planets now in (Tropical) Gemini, an Air sign that is also a human sign. Indeed transiting Mercury for the last couple of weeks and until past the first week of July is in stationary (currently retrograde) square with said Uranus in Pisces and now Venus and the Sun aligned in geocentric conjunction also are in tight squares with said Uranus in Pisces. It's noteworthy to add that this currently partiling transiting Sun Venus conjunction in Gemini square transiting Uranus in Pisces is in the same degree where in the root US horoscope (Declaration of Independence chart) Mars occupies in Gemini. This relates to recent accusations published yesterday involving obvious evidence of navy sonar connection with some of these marine mammals' casualties. At birth (Independence chart) the USA has a tight Mars Neptune square. So the recent arrival of transiting Uranus in Pisces to square US Mars in Gemini implies this transiting Uranus in Pisces arriving for months of opposition US Neptune in Virgo too!. Also related is the current opposition of transiting Mars (a natural malefic) in Leo to transiting Neptune in Aquarius. This orb is still widely applicative clearly predicting that there will soon be an all time boost to the numbers of these marine mammals losing their higher faculties. What we have currently is the Mars/Saturn midpoint (the proverbial malefics) exact opposition Neptune (ruler of the oceans); but Mars is heading towards this opposition Neptune itself now partiling (turning exact its orb of 180 degrees defining the opposition aspect) in 10 more days, on June 21 when many more casualties in the sea will make the headlines. The Moon joins the opposition conjoining Neptune in Aquarius both opposition Mars in Leo. This will be the historical climacteric peak of major ocean catastrophes: this coming June 22. Thanks for your keen and kind attention. stay fine Gonzo ( a Ph.D in the 21st Century) From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Tue Jun 24 03:39:05 2008 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 00:39:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Ensisheim-St Marie shows Message-ID: <82877.94000.qm@web33107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi everyone, I am sitting in Frankfurt right now, but driving back to France today. I just wanted to report a little about the Ensisheim show. It was great, lots of friends I haven't seen in a year, we caught up on meteorite news, tales of great hunts and new goodies. I did not see much new material at the show, virtually nothing new in fact other than some new possible planetary material from NWA. Business for me was low, but I did not bring much. It was also another one of those hot years, very warm and humid, so by Sunday many people felt drained of any energy, myself included, but I think that has a little more to do with the incredible amounts of whiskey that Marc and Peter dug up and the fact that the Russians won the soccer game Sat night in the European championship, which ended up with many of us drinking in the square until 7 am! I don?t remember that much about it, let me tell you! Well, in St Marie I will not have much chance to check emails, so don't be surprised if I do not answer anything for days. Michael Farmer From epgrondine at yahoo.com Tue Jun 24 04:22:57 2008 From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 01:22:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Chixulub impactor Message-ID: <545763.2052.qm@web36906.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi Sterling, Michael, list 3:30 in the morning and just in from a 13 hour drive - a perfect time for archair analysis (end of warning). We know that what hit was CC, and Baptista fragments would have been too slow. My guess: take the velocity of Shoemaker Leny 9, plug that into the equation to get total mass. Then figure dissipation. Osmium? remember that it is likely that neutrons and protons are being freed in hypervelocity impacts. The wave from this impact went out some distance, as did the fracturing of the crust (in which oil pooled). E.P. Grondine "Man and Impact in the Americas" "I wipe my bottom with the pages of your book" - Andi "Just psuedo scientific trash that uses Hibbens' observations, which have been discredited." - "But how were carbon spherules and iron spherules produced at the same time" - "It's all myths" - Hi, Michael, List, Estimates of Chicxulub crater size range from 170-180 kilometers (or about 115 miles) up to 300 kilometers ( ~180 miles). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicxulub_crater The placement of the unique wells of Yucatan, the cenotes, delimit a crater rim with a diameter of 170-195 km. http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v376/n6539/abs/376415a0.html Chicxulub is a multi-ring basin (the big ones are). The question is whether the 170-180 km ring is the outermost ring. Some see it; some don't. Here's all the geological (like gravimetric) data: http://miac.uqac.ca/MIAC/chicxulub.htm The 300 km rim, if present, is high degraded. The chief reason for believing in it is the depressed terrain outside the 170-195 km rim, because depressed terrain occurs between rims but not outside the outermost rim (usually). So, you can see that it's highly doubtful that the crater was 500 miles or 800 km in diameter. You shouldn't believe everything you see on TV (or video). However, it was plenty big enough. Just ask your local dinosaurs... Whoops! Sterling K. Webb From drtanuki at yahoo.com Tue Jun 24 05:15:25 2008 From: drtanuki at yahoo.com (drtanuki) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 02:15:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Call for Articles for the November issue ofMeteorite magazine In-Reply-To: <000501c8d584$cfd3c220$c2dffea9@gregufeopu010a> Message-ID: <905900.71894.qm@web53211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Dear List, The link to the page to send your name to the Moon on the LRO mission is at: http://lunar.gsfc.nasa.gov/# Best, Dirk Ross...Tokyo --- On Tue, 6/24/08, Greg Redfern wrote: > From: Greg Redfern > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Call for Articles for the November issue ofMeteorite magazine > To: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Tuesday, June 24, 2008, 7:59 AM > A bit off topic....LRO/LCROSS mission to the Moon??? > > Greg Redfern > NASA JPL Solar System Ambassador > http://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/ambassador/index.html > WHAT'S UP?: THE SPACE PLACE > http://www.wtopnews.com/?sid=600113&nid=421 > ASTROCAST > http://astrocast.tv/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On > Behalf Of > lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu > Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 12:05 PM > To: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: [meteorite-list] Call for Articles for the > November issue > ofMeteorite magazine > > Hello Everyone: > > Happy Summer Solstice! > > We hope that you enjoyed the May issue of Meteorite. We > have just > finished > editing the August issue. The articles that are in the > queue are all > very > interesting and I am sure you will enjoy them. Some > articles are from > long-time authors and others are from first or second time > authors. > > Now, guess what? > > Yes, it is that time again! It is time to start thinking > about writing > an > article for the November issue of Meteorite. The next > deadline is August > 18. Just in time to tell us about your summer meteorite > hunts, your > summer > reading (a book review), etc. > > There are a number of you who "put off" > submitting articles, so I will > be > getting back to you very soon. Articles can be anywhere > from about 1,000 > words up to 2,500 words (or a little longer) with 4 or 5 > pictures. A > good > picture might even make it to the cover! We also welcome > book reviews > and letters to the editors. > > Please consider writing an article. If you are not sure, > contact us! We > hope to hear from you soon. > > Larry and Nancy Lebofsky > Editors, Meteorite magazine > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Tue Jun 24 06:09:43 2008 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 06:09:43 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 24, 2008 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/June_24_2008.html **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) From info at mcomemeteorite.it Tue Jun 24 07:53:29 2008 From: info at mcomemeteorite.it (M come Meteorite Meteorites) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:53:29 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 24, 2008 Message-ID: <4860e039.66.76c9.1307050041@webmaildh5.aruba.it> H Chondrite? I have the same material and its classificated Enstatite Chondrite Mateo ----- Original Message ----- Da : SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com A : meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Oggetto : [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 24, 2008 Data : Tue, 24 Jun 2008 06:09:43 EDT > http://www.rocksfromspace.org/June_24_2008.html > > > > > **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL > Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. > (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing > list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Tue Jun 24 11:39:03 2008 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 24 Jun 2008 15:39:03 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA 4716: RFS Picture of the Day - June 24, 2008 Message-ID: Hello Pete, Matteo and List, Pete wrote: "New NWA 4716 [Provisional] Meteorite..." If the meteorite pictured is NWA 4716, it is no longer provisional. According to the Met.Bull., it is now an official meteorite name! See here: http://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/metbull.php?sea=NWA+4716&sfor=names&ants=&falls=&stype=contains&lrec=50&map=ge&browse=&country=All&srt=name&categ=All&mblist=All&phot=&snew=0&pnt=no&code=45643 Cheers, Bernd From pshugar at clearwire.net Tue Jun 24 11:46:48 2008 From: pshugar at clearwire.net (Pete Shugar) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 10:46:48 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Lighten up, it's just semantics OT Hoot References: <396850.34218.qm@web55204.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000a01c8d611$853c9fb0$0201a8c0@laptop> This was and will forever be the finest written piece of doubletalk I ever had the privilage of reading in my entire life!!!! Wat to go..... Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mr EMan" To: ; "Michael Gilmer" Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 12:48 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Lighten up, it's just semantics OT Hoot > Well I can see that Garrison's house is in Mars with a Bad Moon is > rising. Too bad the demoted Pluto is no longer influencing the > encirclement of Saturn thus giving rise to an opening for a a negative > ancillary vibration bouncing off Venus... > > Elton > > OK I am but a novice "astro-logger" and could never hope to be as > accomplished as the following expert. This posting was made to a > ahem.."scientific list" elsewhere regarding Dolphins beaching themselves: > (Notice the dates mentioned June 21-22 came and went without the headlines > forecasted) > > Astrologically, this tags well with transiting Uranus ruler of the brainy > sign of Aquarius (a human sign and an Air sign) currently in Pisces (the > most fishy of the Water signs) recently under multiple squares from the > faster moving planets now in (Tropical) Gemini, an Air sign that is also a > human sign. Indeed transiting Mercury for the last couple of weeks and > until > past the first week of July is in stationary (currently retrograde) square > with said Uranus in Pisces and now Venus and the Sun aligned in geocentric > conjunction also are in tight squares with said Uranus in Pisces. > > It's noteworthy to add that this currently partiling transiting Sun Venus > conjunction in Gemini square transiting Uranus in Pisces is in the same > degree where in the root US horoscope (Declaration of Independence chart) > Mars occupies in Gemini. This relates to recent accusations published > yesterday involving obvious evidence of navy sonar connection with some of > these marine mammals' casualties. At birth (Independence chart) the USA > has a tight Mars Neptune square. So the recent arrival of transiting > Uranus in Pisces to square US Mars in Gemini implies this transiting > Uranus in Pisces arriving for months of opposition US Neptune in Virgo > too!. > > Also related is the current opposition of transiting Mars (a natural > malefic) in Leo to transiting Neptune in Aquarius. This orb is still > widely applicative clearly predicting that there will soon be an all time > boost to the numbers of these marine mammals losing their higher > faculties. What we have currently is the Mars/Saturn midpoint (the > proverbial malefics) exact opposition Neptune (ruler of the oceans); but > Mars is heading towards this opposition Neptune itself now partiling > (turning exact its orb of 180 degrees defining the opposition aspect) in > 10 more days, on June 21 when many more casualties in the sea will make > the headlines. The Moon joins the opposition conjoining Neptune in > Aquarius both opposition Mars in Leo. This will be the historical > climacteric peak of major ocean catastrophes: this coming June 22. Thanks > for your keen and kind attention. > stay fine > Gonzo ( a Ph.D in the 21st Century) > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From valparint at aol.com Tue Jun 24 12:04:11 2008 From: valparint at aol.com (valparint at aol.com) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 09:04:11 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Lighten up, it's just semantics Message-ID: The trouble with astrologers is they vote, they influence, and they pass their ignorance on to the next generation. Dog-kicking is not a problem because the dog can take a bite out of the offending leg. If an astrologer influences a politician (Nancy and Ronald, e.g.), it's not something to take lightly. > From: Michael Gilmer > Subject: [meteorite-list] Lighten up, it's just semantics > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Geez, lighten up a little bit. What has any astrologer ever done to > you? Did one kick your dog or something? > Life is too short to get bent out of shape over such things. Paul Swartz From clp at alumni.caltech.edu Tue Jun 24 12:03:12 2008 From: clp at alumni.caltech.edu (Chris Peterson) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 10:03:12 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Lighten up, it's just semantics References: <8CAA3D15FC4BC4C-11C4-1F99@webmail-de08.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <001c01c8d613$d6b57cc0$0a01a8c0@bellatrix> I'm reminded of something that happened after the great Montrose fireball on Thanksgiving 2002. As usual, I was receiving calls from newspapers and TV stations. However, being a big holiday, all the news staffers were pretty much interns, with little experience. I answered a bunch of questions for a reporter at the Rocky Mountain News, and next day was shocked to find myself identified in the paper as "an astrologer from Guffey". Worse, this was also posted online, and in this day of Google, the last thing I wanted was that association! So I called the RMN editor, and asked him to change the wording in their online archives. "Oh, no!", he said, "We can't change archives". I asked him what they would do if they had accidentally called a photographer a pornographer. He got the point, and they changed the archives. Chris ***************************************** Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com From michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com Tue Jun 24 12:14:02 2008 From: michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com (Michael Gilmer) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 09:14:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Astrology/Astronomy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <171074.19928.qm@web58411.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi, My dearly-departed and beloved grandmother was an avid astrologer. I don't share her beliefs, which were admittedly from somewhere way out past left field. But she was a loving, kind, and INTELLIGENT woman with a masters degree. She just believed in a few goofy things like astrology behind closed doors. She didn't push her beliefs onto other people and rarely talked about it. In fact, us grandkids didn't even know she was an astrologer until after she passed away. At any rate, life is too short to paint groups of people with a broad stroke of the brush. Lumping a large group of people together, without knowing them, and then launching obscenities and insults at them is bigotry. Substitute the word "astrologer", in that rant that started this, with any word that describes a racial or religious group and you'll see my meaning. I subscribe to this group to learn about meteoritics, not to listen to the bitter and hostile rants of a foul-mouthed person. And I don't appreciate someone calling my grandmother a "&*%#$! dimwit" or nitwit or whatever it was. I'm sure I will get flamed for this, but it was not me who injected an off-topic rant into the list to start with. Regards and clear skies, MikeG ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale .......................................................... From cynapse at charter.net Tue Jun 24 12:57:03 2008 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:57:03 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Lighten up, it's just semantics In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7f9264d7lh14edus284u1fc7tnbm3pfjos@4ax.com> On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 09:04:11 -0700, you wrote: >The trouble with astrologers is they vote, they influence, and they pass >their ignorance on to the next generation. Dog-kicking is not a problem >because the dog can take a bite out of the offending leg. If an astrologer >influences a politician (Nancy and Ronald, e.g.), it's not something to >take lightly. And I only singled out astrologers because the so called "science teacher" talked about following astrlogy (and Mexico Doug mentioned outlawing them). There's plenty of room in my concentration camp for astrologers, young-earthers, flat-earthers (yes, there are still some around), moon landing deniers, holocaust deniers (yes, I see the irony here), cryptozoologists, alien anal probe victims, "Bush staged 9/11" believers (out of all Bush's crimes, that wasn't one of them), and faith healers. Of course, that'd take up a bit of room. I suggest fencing in Utah. That'd take care of the Mormons, too. (Oh, yeah, round up the Scientologists to join them). From radio_ranch at yahoo.com Tue Jun 24 13:36:49 2008 From: radio_ranch at yahoo.com (Pat Brown) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 10:36:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] "Field Guide to Meteors and Meteorites" now Available In-Reply-To: <000701c8d485$8304d510$6401a8c0@HAL> Message-ID: <2377.36537.qm@web51302.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I pre-ordered on May 26th and my Amazon account shows that the book shipped by 2nd day air (I have joined Amazon's Prime program that offers expedited order fulfillment and 2nd day air shipment on all orders for $80/yr) on Monday the 23rd and shows expected delivery on Wednesday June the 25th. Best Regards, Pat --- On Sun, 6/22/08, Charley wrote: > From: Charley > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] "Field Guide to Meteors and Meteorites" now Available > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Sunday, June 22, 2008, 9:32 AM > Hi all, > > I ordered mine on Amazon.com when Mike first alerted the > list (April 15) > that the book was soon to be available. The cost was to be > $25.05 > (including free shipping and the pre-order discount) . > About a week and a > half ago I received an email from Amazon telling me that > there was a > delay and asking me to respond if I was still interested. I > responded in the > affirmative and later received an email from Amazon that > the new expected > date was in late July. I just visited my Amazon order page > and it shows that > the anticipated shipping date is July 21 (and my pre-order > discount has > disappeared). Clicking on the book title takes me to the > book description > page where it is noted that the book is temporarily out of > stock. > > Apparently Amazon is confused. Anyway, I've waited 2 > months already so what > is another month? > > It would be interesting to know if anyone actually receives > the book before > July 21. > > Best regards, > > Charley > > "Well, squids don't work. Hey! Let's > try elephants !" > > Hannibal > > > > Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 12:05:31 -0400 > > From: Darren Garrison > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] "Field Guide to > Meteors and Meteorites" > > now Available > > To: Meteorite List > > > Message-ID: > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > > > On Sat, 21 Jun 2008 08:48:11 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: > > > >> Good Morning- > >> For those of you waiting- I just got an email at > 9:30 this morning > >> from Amazon that my book shipped. The book must > have been released > >> and Amazon now has them in. The odd thing was > yesterday I got an > >> email from them offering to cancel my order (if I > didn't respond) as > >> the delivery date was now undetermined. I'm > glad I responded to > >> continue with the order. Have a good day. > > > > Coincidentally, I was just looking at that on Amazon a > few minutes > > ago, and > > wondering why nobody had mentioned getting theirs yet > (release date > > at Amazon is > > shown as June 6th). > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From almitt at kconline.com Tue Jun 24 14:20:10 2008 From: almitt at kconline.com (AL Mitterling) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 14:20:10 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Astrology/Astronomy In-Reply-To: <171074.19928.qm@web58411.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <171074.19928.qm@web58411.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <48613ADA.2050802@kconline.com> Hi Mike, I whole heartily agree. I see now we are adding politics in the argument which is a good way to open a can of worms to get a big off topic of politics going on here. Sooner or later someone will do a search and see the discussion and invite all his/her friends to dive in to the off topic subject. But then things have been sorta slow lately. Best! --AL Mitterling Michael Gilmer wrote: >Hi, > >My dearly-departed and beloved grandmother was an avid >astrologer. I don't share her beliefs, which were >admittedly from somewhere way out past left field. >But >she was a loving, kind, and INTELLIGENT woman with a >masters degree. She just believed in a few goofy >things like astrology behind closed doors. She didn't >push her beliefs onto other people and rarely talked >about it. In fact, us grandkids didn't even know she >was an astrologer until after she passed away. > >At any rate, life is too short to paint groups of >people >with a broad stroke of the brush. Lumping a large >group of people together, without knowing them, and >then launching obscenities and insults at them is >bigotry. Substitute the word "astrologer", in that >rant that started this, with any word that describes >a racial or religious group and you'll see my meaning. > >I subscribe to this group to learn about meteoritics, >not to listen to the bitter and hostile rants of a >foul-mouthed person. And I don't appreciate someone >calling my grandmother a "&*%#$! dimwit" or nitwit >or whatever it was. > >I'm sure I will get flamed for this, but it was not >me who injected an off-topic rant into the list to >start with. > >Regards and clear skies, > >MikeG > > >......................................................... >Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) >Member of the Meteoritical Society. >Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. >Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com >MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale >.......................................................... > > > > - From lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu Tue Jun 24 14:23:30 2008 From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu (lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:23:30 -0700 (MST) Subject: [meteorite-list] 'Field Guide to Meteors and Meteorites' now Available In-Reply-To: <2377.36537.qm@web51302.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <000701c8d485$8304d510$6401a8c0@HAL> <2377.36537.qm@web51302.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <49597.71.226.60.25.1214331810.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> Pat: Great! Thanks Larry On Tue, June 24, 2008 10:36 am, Pat Brown wrote: > I pre-ordered on May 26th and my Amazon account shows that the book > shipped by 2nd day air (I have joined Amazon's Prime program that offers > expedited order fulfillment and 2nd day air shipment on all orders for > $80/yr) on Monday the 23rd and shows expected delivery on Wednesday June > the 25th. > > Best Regards, > Pat > > > --- On Sun, 6/22/08, Charley wrote: > > >> From: Charley >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] "Field Guide to Meteors and Meteorites" >> now Available To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> Date: Sunday, June 22, 2008, 9:32 AM >> Hi all, >> >> >> I ordered mine on Amazon.com when Mike first alerted the >> list (April 15) that the book was soon to be available. The cost was to >> be $25.05 >> (including free shipping and the pre-order discount) . >> About a week and a >> half ago I received an email from Amazon telling me that there was a delay >> and asking me to respond if I was still interested. I responded in the >> affirmative and later received an email from Amazon that the new >> expected date was in late July. I just visited my Amazon order page and >> it shows that the anticipated shipping date is July 21 (and my pre-order >> discount has disappeared). Clicking on the book title takes me to the >> book description page where it is noted that the book is temporarily out >> of stock. >> >> Apparently Amazon is confused. Anyway, I've waited 2 >> months already so what is another month? >> >> It would be interesting to know if anyone actually receives >> the book before July 21. >> >> >> Best regards, >> >> >> Charley >> >> >> "Well, squids don't work. Hey! Let's >> try elephants !" >> >> Hannibal >> >> >> >>> Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 12:05:31 -0400 >>> From: Darren Garrison >>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] "Field Guide to >>> >> Meteors and Meteorites" >> >>> now Available To: Meteorite List >>> >> >> >>> Message-ID: >>> >> >> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >>> >>> >>> On Sat, 21 Jun 2008 08:48:11 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Good Morning- >>>> For those of you waiting- I just got an email at >>>> >> 9:30 this morning >> >>>> from Amazon that my book shipped. The book must >> have been released >>>> and Amazon now has them in. The odd thing was >> yesterday I got an >>>> email from them offering to cancel my order (if I >> didn't respond) as >>>> the delivery date was now undetermined. I'm >> glad I responded to >>>> continue with the order. Have a good day. >>> >>> Coincidentally, I was just looking at that on Amazon a >>> >> few minutes >>> ago, and wondering why nobody had mentioned getting theirs yet >> (release date >> >>> at Amazon is shown as June 6th). >>> >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From mmurray at montrose.net Tue Jun 24 14:53:22 2008 From: mmurray at montrose.net (Michael Murray) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:53:22 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] poor picture, nice surface features Message-ID: <3AACA300-FF52-48B4-B084-FB980707B59D@montrose.net> For anyone who likes different surface features, here is a gouged out grove along one edge of a small blackened (suspect) stone. It is running nearly the length . If you're like me, that ablation feature is exciting to see. Sorry the pic is not so good. Took it through the m-scope. The second picture is of the same stone on another side. Lots of grooving. Mike in CO micro hunter in southwest Colorado From epgrondine at yahoo.com Tue Jun 24 15:59:12 2008 From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:59:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Wizards (?) of osmium Message-ID: <249471.29129.qm@web36902.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi Sterling, all > Another possibility is that the impacting objects were comets rather than > asteroids, and contained much less osmium to begin with. But chemical > traces of the impactors left behind in rocks and reported in previous > studies suggest otherwise. Ackk. Resistance continues to Clube and Napier's injection model. Is it just Morrison and Rummel, or is it a "not invented here" thing with nationalistic overtones? From eric at meteoritewatch.com Tue Jun 24 16:03:46 2008 From: eric at meteoritewatch.com (Eric Wichman) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:03:46 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Looking for material. Any material... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48615322.50001@meteoritewatch.com> Hi All, Usually I don't post to list unless I'm having a sale, making an announcement, or rarely responding to a post, so please excuse this post. I've been not so quietly building my inventory, collection and selling material for some time now and would like to be able to offer more of a selection to my wide customer base. I'm looking for material. Just about any material will do. I am a dealer so please don't try to sell me at full retail, or work me on price because I'll tell you where you can put your meteorite. ;) I'll give you FAIR PRICE for your meteorites. I primarily deal in NWA XXX unclassified stones, and am open to any other type whether classified or not. Stones, irons, stony irons, it's all good to me. I'm all for horse trading, wheeling and dealing, and will pay cash for nice specimens. I've got a lot of material in my inventory and will buy or trade for any good quality, or in large quantity. Looking for ongoing supply and continued "LONG TERM" business. Treat me right on a deal, and you'll get the same in return and have a long term buyer. I'm a down to earth, fair guy and will work with you to make it a mutually beneficial deal. Talk to you soon... Contact me OFF-LIST at email: eric at meteoritesusa.com Regards, Eric Wichman www.MeteoritesUSA.com www.MeteoriteWatch.com From drtanuki at yahoo.com Tue Jun 24 19:35:39 2008 From: drtanuki at yahoo.com (drtanuki) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 16:35:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Santa Fe, NM Impact Crater article Message-ID: <402953.19964.qm@web53211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Dear List, A recent article about the newly discovered Santa Fe impact crater: http://space.newscientist.com/article/mg19826604.800-roadside-crater-should-have-made-more-of-an-impact.html?feedId=space_rss20 Best, Dirk Ross...Tokyo From dave at fallingrocks.com Tue Jun 24 22:09:45 2008 From: dave at fallingrocks.com (Dave Gheesling) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 22:09:45 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Astrology/Astronomy In-Reply-To: <171074.19928.qm@web58411.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <171074.19928.qm@web58411.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8BFB1523A0DC483AA7F41B65202F27DE@meteorroom> Mike & All, Astrology is what it is, but your point below hits the nail right on the head. Dave -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Michael Gilmer Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 12:14 PM To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Astrology/Astronomy Hi, My dearly-departed and beloved grandmother was an avid astrologer. I don't share her beliefs, which were admittedly from somewhere way out past left field. But she was a loving, kind, and INTELLIGENT woman with a masters degree. She just believed in a few goofy things like astrology behind closed doors. She didn't push her beliefs onto other people and rarely talked about it. In fact, us grandkids didn't even know she was an astrologer until after she passed away. At any rate, life is too short to paint groups of people with a broad stroke of the brush. Lumping a large group of people together, without knowing them, and then launching obscenities and insults at them is bigotry. Substitute the word "astrologer", in that rant that started this, with any word that describes a racial or religious group and you'll see my meaning. I subscribe to this group to learn about meteoritics, not to listen to the bitter and hostile rants of a foul-mouthed person. And I don't appreciate someone calling my grandmother a "&*%#$! dimwit" or nitwit or whatever it was. I'm sure I will get flamed for this, but it was not me who injected an off-topic rant into the list to start with. Regards and clear skies, MikeG ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale .......................................................... ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From cynapse at charter.net Wed Jun 25 00:03:26 2008 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 00:03:26 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Glass in meteorites In-Reply-To: <4A666D94-C773-4945-954F-CE7FAE10FE7A@dof3.com> References: <4A666D94-C773-4945-954F-CE7FAE10FE7A@dof3.com> Message-ID: Have any studies been done on "decay" of glasses in meteorites into crystaline configurations? Is there a mesurable rate, or does it not happen? This story brought that to mind-- if impact-generated glasses in meteorites HAVE NOT "decayed" into crystaline material in 4 billion years, it's fairly good evidence that it won't happen "in billions of years", as the story speculates. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,370864,00.html Scientists have made a breakthrough discovery in the bizarre properties of glass, which behaves at times like both a solid and a liquid. The finding could lead to aircraft that look like Wonder Woman's plane. Such planes could have wings of glass or something called metallic glass, rather than being totally invisible. The breakthrough involved solving the decades-old problem of just what glass is. It has been known that that despite its solid appearance, glass and gels are actually in a "jammed" state of matter ? somewhere between liquid and solid ? that moves very slowly. Like cars in a traffic jam, atoms in a glass are in something like suspended animation, unable to reach their destination because the route is blocked by their neighbors. So even though glass is a hard substance, it never quite becomes a proper solid, according to chemists and materials scientists. Work so far has concentrated on trying to understand the traffic jam, but now Paddy Royall from the University of Bristol in England, with colleagues in Canberra, Australia and Tokyo, has shown that glass fails to be a solid due to the special atomic structures that form in a glass when it cools. Icosahedron jams Some materials crystallize as they cool, arranging their atoms into a highly regular pattern called a lattice, Royall said, but although glass "wants" to be a crystal, as it cools the atoms become jammed in a nearly random arrangement, preventing it from forming a regular lattice. In the 1950s, Sir Charles Frank in the Physics Department at Bristol suggested that the arrangement of the "jam" should form what is known as an icosahedron, but at the time he was unable to prove it. An icosahedron is like a 3-D pentagon, and just as you cannot tile a floor with pentagons, you cannot fill 3-D space with icosahedrons, Royall explained. That is, you can't make a lattice out of pentagons. When it comes to glass, Frank thought, there is a competition between crystal formation and pentagons that prevents the construction of a crystal. If you cool a liquid down and it makes a lot of pentagons and the pentagons survive, the crystal cannot form. It turns out that Frank was right, Royall said, and his team proved this experimentally. You can't watch what happens to atoms as they cool because they are too small, so Royall and his colleagues used special particles called colloids that mimic atoms, but are large enough to be visible using state-of-the-art microscopy. The team cooled some down and watched what happened. What they found was that the gel these particles formed also "wants" to be a crystal, but it fails to become one due to the formation of icosahedra-like structures ? exactly as Frank had predicted. "It is the formation of these structures that underlie jammed materials and explains why a glass is a glass and not a liquid ? or a solid," Royall said. The findings are detailed in the June 22 issue of the journal Nature Materials. The research was supported in part by a grant from Britain's Ministry of Education, Culture, Sports, Science and Technology as well as the Royal Society. Preventing jetliner disasters Knowing the structure formed by atoms as a glass cools represents a major breakthrough in the understanding of meta-stable materials and will allow further development of new strong yet light materials called metallic glasses, Royall said, which is already used to make some golf clubs. This stuff is generally shiny black in color, not transparent, due to having a lot of free electrons (think of mercury in an old thermometer). Metals normally crystallize when they cool, but stress builds up along the boundaries between crystals, which can lead to metal failure. For example, the world's first jetliner, the British built De Havilland Comet, fell out of the sky due to metal failure. When metals are be made to cool with the same internal structure as a glass and without crystal grain boundaries, they are less likely to fail, Royall said. Metallic glasses could be suitable for a whole range of products beyond golf clubs that need to be flexible such as aircraft wings and engine parts, he said. Glass is not what it seems Royall is part of a group of scientists who think that if you wait long enough, perhaps billions of years, all glass will eventually crystallize into a true solid. In other words, glass is not in an equilibrium state, he believes, although it appears that way to us during our limited lifetimes. "This is not universally accepted," Royall told LiveScience. "Our work will go some way to making that point more accepted. I think there is a growing weight of evidence that certainly many glasses 'want' to be a crystal." Still, glass "looks like a liquid and this is one of the great riddles that we have gone some way to solving," Royall said. "It has always been thought that glass has same structure as a liquid, and that's why it looks like it. It does not have same structure as liquid." Copyright ? 2008 Imaginova Corp. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed. From STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com Wed Jun 25 00:24:28 2008 From: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com (STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 00:24:28 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Glass in meteorites Message-ID: Hi, Several years ago I ran onto an unusual chondrule in JaH 055 that looks like glass but it is forming in crystals. I have had various explanations presented to me and all involved "Glass" This might be "On topic"? If any one is up to taking a look and sharing their observations, I would greatly appreciate it. Just go to my Meteorite Times Micrograph Gallery http://www.meteorite.com/meteorite-gallery/meteorites-alpha_frame.htm and select alphabetical sorting, JaH 055, and then crystal structure. These shots were produced using incident (reflected light). Thanks, Tom Phillips In a message dated 6/24/2008 10:02:55 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, cynapse at charter.net writes: Have any studies been done on "decay" of glasses in meteorites into crystaline configurations? Is there a mesurable rate, or does it not happen? This story brought that to mind-- if impact-generated glasses in meteorites HAVE NOT "decayed" into crystaline material in 4 billion years, it's fairly good evidence that it won't happen "in billions of years", as the story speculates. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,370864,00.html Scientists have made a breakthrough discovery in the bizarre properties of glass, which behaves at times like both a solid and a liquid. The finding could lead to aircraft that look like Wonder Woman's plane. Such planes could have wings of glass or something called metallic glass, rather than being totally invisible. The breakthrough involved solving the decades-old problem of just what glass is. It has been known that that despite its solid appearance, glass and gels are actually in a "jammed" state of matter ? somewhere between liquid and solid ? that moves very slowly. Like cars in a traffic jam, atoms in a glass are in something like suspended animation, unable to reach their destination because the route is blocked by their neighbors. So even though glass is a hard substance, it never quite becomes a proper solid, according to chemists and materials scientists. Work so far has concentrated on trying to understand the traffic jam, but now Paddy Royall from the University of Bristol in England, with colleagues in Canberra, Australia and Tokyo, has shown that glass fails to be a solid due to the special atomic structures that form in a glass when it cools. Icosahedron jams Some materials crystallize as they cool, arranging their atoms into a highly regular pattern called a lattice, Royall said, but although glass "wants" to be a crystal, as it cools the atoms become jammed in a nearly random arrangement, preventing it from forming a regular lattice. In the 1950s, Sir Charles Frank in the Physics Department at Bristol suggested that the arrangement of the "jam" should form what is known as an icosahedron, but at the time he was unable to prove it. An icosahedron is like a 3-D pentagon, and just as you cannot tile a floor with pentagons, you cannot fill 3-D space with icosahedrons, Royall explained. That is, you can't make a lattice out of pentagons. When it comes to glass, Frank thought, there is a competition between crystal formation and pentagons that prevents the construction of a crystal. If you cool a liquid down and it makes a lot of pentagons and the pentagons survive, the crystal cannot form. It turns out that Frank was right, Royall said, and his team proved this experimentally. You can't watch what happens to atoms as they cool because they are too small, so Royall and his colleagues used special particles called colloids that mimic atoms, but are large enough to be visible using state-of-the-art microscopy. The team cooled some down and watched what happened. What they found was that the gel these particles formed also "wants" to be a crystal, but it fails to become one due to the formation of icosahedra-like structures ? exactly as Frank had predicted. "It is the formation of these structures that underlie jammed materials and explains why a glass is a glass and not a liquid ? or a solid," Royall said. The findings are detailed in the June 22 issue of the journal Nature Materials. The research was supported in part by a grant from Britain's Ministry of Education, Culture, Sports, Science and Technology as well as the Royal Society. Preventing jetliner disasters Knowing the structure formed by atoms as a glass cools represents a major breakthrough in the understanding of meta-stable materials and will allow further development of new strong yet light materials called metallic glasses, Royall said, which is already used to make some golf clubs. This stuff is generally shiny black in color, not transparent, due to having a lot of free electrons (think of mercury in an old thermometer). Metals normally crystallize when they cool, but stress builds up along the boundaries between crystals, which can lead to metal failure. For example, the world's first jetliner, the British built De Havilland Comet, fell out of the sky due to metal failure. When metals are be made to cool with the same internal structure as a glass and without crystal grain boundaries, they are less likely to fail, Royall said. Metallic glasses could be suitable for a whole range of products beyond golf clubs that need to be flexible such as aircraft wings and engine parts, he said. Glass is not what it seems Royall is part of a group of scientists who think that if you wait long enough, perhaps billions of years, all glass will eventually crystallize into a true solid. In other words, glass is not in an equilibrium state, he believes, although it appears that way to us during our limited lifetimes. "This is not universally accepted," Royall told LiveScience. "Our work will go some way to making that point more accepted. I think there is a growing weight of evidence that certainly many glasses 'want' to be a crystal." Still, glass "looks like a liquid and this is one of the great riddles that we have gone some way to solving," Royall said. "It has always been thought that glass has same structure as a liquid, and that's why it looks like it. It does not have same structure as liquid." Copyright ? 2008 Imaginova Corp. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed. ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Wed Jun 25 00:38:17 2008 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 00:38:17 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 25, 2008 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/June_25_2008.html **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) From jgrossman at usgs.gov Wed Jun 25 07:22:35 2008 From: jgrossman at usgs.gov (Jeff Grossman) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 07:22:35 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Glass in meteorites In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I think it is fairly clear that the glass in chondrites, which forms in chondrules because of their rapid cooling from a partially molten state, is stable on the time-scale of the age of the solar system. In the most primitive chondrites, the ones unaffected by reheating or alteration on asteroids, the glass is preserved in pristine condition to this day. In metamorphosed chondrites, glass may survive in protected areas of type 3.9-4 material, but the reheating caused most of the glass to crystallize into feldspar early in solar system history. In aqueously altered chondrites, like CMs, the glass was mostly replaced by phyllosilicates and other phases due to the chemical action of water on the asteroid. Water is apparently a key ingredient in devitrifying silicate glasses, especially important in earth rocks. The image on Tom's website is almost certainly one of dendrites (probably olivine) in what was once glass. These dendrites were the result of rapid crystallization during cooling of a chondrule melt. Because this is a metamorphosed chondrite, the glass is now most likely replaced by fine-grained feldspathic material. Jeff At 12:24 AM 6/25/2008, STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com wrote: >Hi, Several years ago I ran onto an unusual chondrule in JaH 055 >that looks like glass but it is forming in crystals. I have had >various explanations presented to me and all involved "Glass" This >might be "On topic"? If any one is up to taking a look and sharing >their observations, I would greatly appreciate it. Just go to my >Meteorite Times Micrograph >Gallery >http://www.meteorite.com/meteorite-gallery/meteorites-alpha_frame.htm >and select alphabetical sorting, JaH 055, and then >crystal structure. These shots were produced using incident >(reflected light). Thanks, Tom Phillips In a message dated >6/24/2008 10:02:55 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, cynapse at charter.net >writes: Have any studies been done on "decay" of glasses in >meteorites into crystaline configurations? Is there a mesurable >rate, or does it not happen? This story brought that to mind-- if >impact-generated glasses in meteorites HAVE NOT "decayed" into >crystaline material in 4 billion years, it's fairly good evidence >that it won't happen "in billions of years", as the story speculates. Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703) 648-6184 US Geological Survey fax: (703) 648-6383 954 National Center Reston, VA 20192, USA From jbaxter112 at pol.net Wed Jun 25 09:20:30 2008 From: jbaxter112 at pol.net (jbaxter112 at pol.net) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 09:20:30 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Glass in meteorites In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <39209.10.250.10.1.1214400030.squirrel@webmail.medscape.com> Hi Jeff, Congratulations on the cover story in Science on formation conditions of chondrules. Your color photograph of a Semarkona cross section is fabulous. Cheers, Jim Baxter > I think it is fairly clear that the glass in chondrites, which forms in > chondrules because of their rapid cooling from a partially molten > state, is stable on the time-scale of the age of the solar > system. In the most primitive chondrites, the ones unaffected by > reheating or alteration on asteroids, the glass is preserved in > pristine condition to this day. In metamorphosed chondrites, glass may > survive in protected areas of type 3.9-4 material, but the > reheating caused most of the glass to crystallize into feldspar early > in solar system history. In aqueously altered chondrites, like CMs, the > glass was mostly replaced by phyllosilicates and other phases due to > the chemical action of water on the asteroid. Water is apparently a key > ingredient in devitrifying silicate glasses, especially > important in earth rocks. > > The image on Tom's website is almost certainly one of dendrites > (probably olivine) in what was once glass. These dendrites were the > result of rapid crystallization during cooling of a chondrule > melt. Because this is a metamorphosed chondrite, the glass is now most > likely replaced by fine-grained feldspathic material. > > Jeff > > At 12:24 AM 6/25/2008, STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com wrote: >>Hi, Several years ago I ran onto an unusual chondrule in JaH 055 >> that looks like glass but it is forming in crystals. I have had >> various explanations presented to me and all involved "Glass" This >> might be "On topic"? If any one is up to taking a look and sharing >> their observations, I would greatly appreciate it. Just go to my >> Meteorite Times Micrograph >>Gallery >>http://www.meteorite.com/meteorite-gallery/meteorites-alpha_frame.htm >> and select alphabetical sorting, JaH 055, and then >>crystal structure. These shots were produced using incident >>(reflected light). Thanks, Tom Phillips In a message dated >>6/24/2008 10:02:55 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, cynapse at charter.net >> writes: Have any studies been done on "decay" of glasses in >>meteorites into crystaline configurations? Is there a mesurable >> rate, or does it not happen? This story brought that to mind-- if >> impact-generated glasses in meteorites HAVE NOT "decayed" into >>crystaline material in 4 billion years, it's fairly good evidence >> that it won't happen "in billions of years", as the story speculates. > > Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703) 648-6184 > US Geological Survey fax: (703) 648-6383 > 954 National Center > Reston, VA 20192, USA > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From m_graul at yahoo.de Wed Jun 25 10:12:31 2008 From: m_graul at yahoo.de (Mirko Graul) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 14:12:31 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [meteorite-list] (no subject) Message-ID: <412160.7830.qm@web26305.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Mirko Graul Meteorite Quittenring.4 16321 Bernau GERMANY Phone: 0049-1724105015 E-Mail: m_graul at yahoo.de IMCA-Member: 2113 (International Meteorite Collectors Association) Web: www.meteorite-mirko.de __________________________________________________________ Gesendet von Yahoo! Mail. Dem pfiffigeren Posteingang. http://de.overview.mail.yahoo.com From m_graul at yahoo.de Wed Jun 25 10:21:54 2008 From: m_graul at yahoo.de (Mirko Graul) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 14:21:54 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [meteorite-list] More Impressions of Ensisheim Meteorite Show Message-ID: <871525.35367.qm@web26304.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Hello List and friends from Meteorites, back from France i have list on my homepage arround 80 photos from the Ensisheim Meteorite Show. Enjoy the view of the many photos. The show was very nice and the meetings with all friends was very good! Here the links to the 8 galleries: http://www.meteorite-mirko.de/0334af993b0042c09/0334af9ac608d3b02/index.html http://www.meteorite-mirko.de/0334af993b0042c09/0334af9ac6098861f/index.html http://www.meteorite-mirko.de/0334af993b0042c09/0334af9ac60989d2e/index.html http://www.meteorite-mirko.de/0334af993b0042c09/0334af9ac6098b03d/index.html http://www.meteorite-mirko.de/0334af993b0042c09/0334af9ac6098c84c/index.html http://www.meteorite-mirko.de/0334af993b0042c09/0334af9ac713bd454/index.html http://www.meteorite-mirko.de/0334af993b0042c09/0334af9ac713c2a72/index.html http://www.meteorite-mirko.de/0334af993b0042c09/0334af9ac808e921e/index.html Enjoy the view of the many photos. Many greetings Mirko Mirko Graul Meteorite Quittenring.4 16321 Bernau GERMANY Phone: 0049-1724105015 E-Mail: m_graul at yahoo.de IMCA-Member: 2113 (International Meteorite Collectors Association) Web: www.meteorite-mirko.de __________________________________________________________ Gesendet von Yahoo! Mail. Dem pfiffigeren Posteingang. http://de.overview.mail.yahoo.com From majbaermann at web.de Wed Jun 25 11:17:05 2008 From: majbaermann at web.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Matthias_B=E4rmann?=) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 17:17:05 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] More Impressions of Ensisheim Meteorite Show References: <871525.35367.qm@web26304.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001701c8d6d6$877d4b60$6901a8c0@ibmtp23> Thanks, Mirko and also Hanno, for the great Ensisheim pics. Matthias Baermann ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mirko Graul" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 4:21 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] More Impressions of Ensisheim Meteorite Show > Hello List and friends from Meteorites, > > back from France i have list on my homepage arround 80 photos from the > Ensisheim Meteorite Show. > Enjoy the view of the many photos. > The show was very nice and the meetings with all friends was very good! > > Here the links to the 8 galleries: > > http://www.meteorite-mirko.de/0334af993b0042c09/0334af9ac608d3b02/index.html > > http://www.meteorite-mirko.de/0334af993b0042c09/0334af9ac6098861f/index.html > > http://www.meteorite-mirko.de/0334af993b0042c09/0334af9ac60989d2e/index.html > > http://www.meteorite-mirko.de/0334af993b0042c09/0334af9ac6098b03d/index.html > > http://www.meteorite-mirko.de/0334af993b0042c09/0334af9ac6098c84c/index.html > > http://www.meteorite-mirko.de/0334af993b0042c09/0334af9ac713bd454/index.html > > http://www.meteorite-mirko.de/0334af993b0042c09/0334af9ac713c2a72/index.html > > http://www.meteorite-mirko.de/0334af993b0042c09/0334af9ac808e921e/index.html > > > Enjoy the view of the many photos. > > Many greetings Mirko > > > Mirko Graul Meteorite > Quittenring.4 > 16321 Bernau > GERMANY > > Phone: 0049-1724105015 > E-Mail: m_graul at yahoo.de > > IMCA-Member: 2113 > (International Meteorite Collectors Association) > > Web: www.meteorite-mirko.de > > > __________________________________________________________ > Gesendet von Yahoo! Mail. > Dem pfiffigeren Posteingang. > http://de.overview.mail.yahoo.com > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From codale0806 at rogers.com Wed Jun 25 11:54:41 2008 From: codale0806 at rogers.com (Charles O'Dale) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 11:54:41 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Santa Fe, NM Impact Crater article In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <941964.48635.qm@web88005.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Dirk: Any idea on the exact position of this structure (Lat/Long)? Chuck http://www.ottawa.rasc.ca/articles/odale_chuck/earth_craters/index.html > Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 16:35:39 -0700 (PDT) > From: drtanuki > Subject: [meteorite-list] Santa Fe, NM Impact Crater article > > Dear List, > A recent article about the newly discovered Santa Fe impact crater: > > http://space.newscientist.com/article/mg19826604.800-roadside-crater-should-have-made-more-of-an-impact.html?feedId=space_rss20 > > Best, Dirk Ross...Tokyo > From gmhupe at htn.net Wed Jun 25 12:00:55 2008 From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 12:00:55 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Peep Show - "Tit for Tat" Message-ID: <07aa01c8d6dc$a6a99560$8eb6fea9@Gregor> Dear List Members, To go along with today's "Picture of The Day", graciously hosted by Michael Johnson, here are some additional photos of the younger, healthier sister to the "Venus Stone": "Tit for Tat" The younger, healthier sister squaring off to the "Venus Stone" (replica shown). A 2413-gram Saharan chondrite displaying subtle, yet stunning flow lines cresting over to the back side of this remarkable center-piece. http://www.lunarrock.com/6-25-2008/tit-4-tat.jpg Side View http://www.lunarrock.com/6-25-2008/dsc00010.jpg Left View http://www.lunarrock.com/6-25-2008/dsc00007.jpg Right View http://www.lunarrock.com/6-25-2008/dsc00012.jpg I think the younger sister needs a name. "Pamela" has been suggested, any other names you may have in mind? Enjoy! Greg ==================== Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmhupe at htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 ==================== Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault From bristolia at yahoo.com Wed Jun 25 12:51:32 2008 From: bristolia at yahoo.com (Paul) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 09:51:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Santa Fe, NM Impact Crater Latitude and Longitude Message-ID: <314700.45155.qm@web36208.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In ?Santa Fe, NM Impact Crater article?, Charles O'Dale asked about the Santa Fe - Hyde Park, New Mexico, Impact Structure: ?Any idea on the exact position of this structure (Lat/Long)?? According to the SEIS database, version 10, it is: Latitude: 35.728277 Longitude: 105.85966 The SEIS database, version 10 can be found at: http://web.eps.utk.edu/ifsg.htm yours, Paul H. From STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com Wed Jun 25 12:52:16 2008 From: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com (STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 12:52:16 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Glass in meteorites Message-ID: Hi Jeff and Jim, Wow, tell us more about the article in Science. Could it be ordered as a single copy at this point? Tom In a message dated 6/25/2008 7:27:00 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time, jbaxter112 at pol.net writes: Hi Jeff, Congratulations on the cover story in Science on formation conditions of chondrules. Your color photograph of a Semarkona cross section is fabulous. Cheers, Jim Baxter > I think it is fairly clear that the glass in chondrites, which forms in > chondrules because of their rapid cooling from a partially molten > state, is stable on the time-scale of the age of the solar > system. In the most primitive chondrites, the ones unaffected by > reheating or alteration on asteroids, the glass is preserved in > pristine condition to this day. In metamorphosed chondrites, glass may > survive in protected areas of type 3.9-4 material, but the > reheating caused most of the glass to crystallize into feldspar early > in solar system history. In aqueously altered chondrites, like CMs, the > glass was mostly replaced by phyllosilicates and other phases due to > the chemical action of water on the asteroid. Water is apparently a key > ingredient in devitrifying silicate glasses, especially > important in earth rocks. > > The image on Tom's website is almost certainly one of dendrites > (probably olivine) in what was once glass. These dendrites were the > result of rapid crystallization during cooling of a chondrule > melt. Because this is a metamorphosed chondrite, the glass is now most > likely replaced by fine-grained feldspathic material. > > Jeff > > At 12:24 AM 6/25/2008, STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com wrote: >>Hi, Several years ago I ran onto an unusual chondrule in JaH 055 >> that looks like glass but it is forming in crystals. I have had >> various explanations presented to me and all involved "Glass" This >> might be "On topic"? If any one is up to taking a look and sharing >> their observations, I would greatly appreciate it. Just go to my >> Meteorite Times Micrograph >>Gallery >>http://www.meteorite.com/meteorite-gallery/meteorites-alpha_frame.htm >> and select alphabetical sorting, JaH 055, and then >>crystal structure. These shots were produced using incident >>(reflected light). Thanks, Tom Phillips In a message dated >>6/24/2008 10:02:55 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, cynapse at charter.net >> writes: Have any studies been done on "decay" of glasses in >>meteorites into crystaline configurations? Is there a mesurable >> rate, or does it not happen? This story brought that to mind-- if >> impact-generated glasses in meteorites HAVE NOT "decayed" into >>crystaline material in 4 billion years, it's fairly good evidence >> that it won't happen "in billions of years", as the story speculates. > > Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703) 648-6184 > US Geological Survey fax: (703) 648-6383 > 954 National Center > Reston, VA 20192, USA > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) From bristolia at yahoo.com Wed Jun 25 15:31:00 2008 From: bristolia at yahoo.com (Paul) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 12:31:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] New Paper on Silverpit (Impact ??) Structure, North Sea Message-ID: <248776.32352.qm@web36206.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dear Friends, In the Journal of the Geological Society, there is a new paper on the proposed Silverpit Impact Structure. It is: Wall, M.L.T. , and J. Cartwright and R.J. Davies, 2008, An Eocene age for the proposed Silverpit Impact Crater. Journal of the Geological Society. vol. 165, no. 4, pp. 781-794 DOI: 10.1144/0016-76492007-138 http://ejournals.ebsco.com/Article.asp?ContributionID=1441435 http://ejournals.ebsco.com/direct.asp?ArticleID=4ABEBE2BF6408E5C5CB6 Using seismic stratigraphy, and microfossil, including calcareous nannofossil, data from regional wells, they dated the age of the first sediments onlapping into this structure. This relationship suggests that the structure is Middle Eocene in age. As a result, they conclude that this structure is 10 to 15 million years younger than previous age estimates and this structure is far too young to be associated with the K-T boundary. They also argue that the Silverpit structure is considerably younger than when regional folding and salt flowage occurred. This, they argue makes it too young to have been created by this regional folding and salt flowage as argued by other papers. Silverpit crater http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silverpit_crater North Sea crater shows its scars http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4360815.stm Yours, Paul H. From cynapse at charter.net Wed Jun 25 15:34:47 2008 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 15:34:47 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars-- megawhack? In-Reply-To: <871525.35367.qm@web26304.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <871525.35367.qm@web26304.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/space/06/25/twofaced.mars.ap/index.html Ancient impact may explain Mars mystery LOS ANGELES, California (AP) -- Why is Mars two-faced? Scientists say fresh evidence supports the theory that a monster impact punched the red planet, leaving behind perhaps the largest gash on any heavenly body in the solar system. Today, the Martian surface has a split personality. The southern hemisphere of Mars is pockmarked and filled with ancient rugged highlands. By contrast, the northern hemisphere is smoother and covered by low-lying plains. Three papers in Thursday's journal Nature provide the most convincing evidence yet that an outside force was responsible. According to the researchers, an asteroid or comet whacked a young Mars some 4 billion years ago, blasting away much of its northern crust and creating a giant hole over 40 percent of the surface. New calculations reveal the crater known as the Borealis basin measures 5,300 miles across and 6,600 miles long -- the size of Asia, Europe and Australia combined. It's believed to be four times bigger than the current titleholder, the South Pole-Aitken basin on Earth's moon. Astronomers have long puzzled over Mars' landscape ever since images beamed back in the 1970s showed different-looking halves. An orbiting spacecraft later observed the northern lowlands were on average 2 miles lower than the southern highlands and had a thinner crust. Scientists who had no role in the studies said the latest research strengthens the case for a colossal Martian impact, but it does not rule out the other theory that hot rock from inside the planet could have welled up and formed the different crusts. "The betting odds have gone up a lot in favor of the impact model," said Walter Kiefer, a staff scientist at the Lunar and Planetary Institute in Houston. The idea of an ancient impact was first advanced by Steve Squyres of Cornell University and Don Wilhelms of the U.S. Geological Survey in the 1980s. Squyres, currently the lead scientist for the twin Mars rovers, had always hoped other scientists would "pick that ball up and run with it." "It wasn't a totally nutty idea that there could have been an impact," Squyres said. But finding evidence of one proved difficult because part of the basin rim is now covered by a bulging volcanic range. For one study, a team of scientists from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory recreated what the Martian surface would have looked like before the volcanoes formed using gravity and surface measurements from spacecraft. They determined the impact basin is oval-shaped, similar to what would be expected if a space object had hit at an angle. "The shape is really one of the key pieces of evidence that it was probably formed in a giant impact," said MIT postdoctoral researcher Jeffrey Andrews-Hanna, whose original "gut feeling" favored the other theory. A separate group led by the California Institute of Technology developed 3-D simulations to determine the "sweet spot" of conditions that would form the basin. According to their calculations, a 1,000-mile-wide object traveling at more than 13,000 miles per hour -- or 24 times faster than a jetliner -- would hit Mars at an angle between 30 and 60 degrees. The collision would be equal to an explosion of 75 to 150 trillion megatons of TNT. In the third study, a team of researchers led by the University of California, Santa Cruz, found that shock waves from such an impact would disrupt the southern crust. All three teams believe there was a single giant blow and not several small hits because there's no evidence of other basins. From rsvp321 at hotmail.com Wed Jun 25 16:10:37 2008 From: rsvp321 at hotmail.com (Pete Pete) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:10:37 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] More Impressions of Ensisheim Meteorite Show In-Reply-To: <871525.35367.qm@web26304.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <871525.35367.qm@web26304.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I always look forward to and enjoy these show pictures - thanks, Mirko. (is it just me, or does Mike Farmer look like a big kid that never ages?) Cheers, Pete > Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 14:21:54 +0000 > From: m_graul at yahoo.de > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: [meteorite-list] More Impressions of Ensisheim Meteorite Show > > Hello List and friends from Meteorites, > > back from France i have list on my homepage arround 80 photos from the > Ensisheim Meteorite Show. > Enjoy the view of the many photos. > The show was very nice and the meetings with all friends was very good! > > Here the links to the 8 galleries: > > http://www.meteorite-mirko.de/0334af993b0042c09/0334af9ac608d3b02/index.html > > http://www.meteorite-mirko.de/0334af993b0042c09/0334af9ac6098861f/index.html > > http://www.meteorite-mirko.de/0334af993b0042c09/0334af9ac60989d2e/index.html > > http://www.meteorite-mirko.de/0334af993b0042c09/0334af9ac6098b03d/index.html > > http://www.meteorite-mirko.de/0334af993b0042c09/0334af9ac6098c84c/index.html > > http://www.meteorite-mirko.de/0334af993b0042c09/0334af9ac713bd454/index.html > > http://www.meteorite-mirko.de/0334af993b0042c09/0334af9ac713c2a72/index.html > > http://www.meteorite-mirko.de/0334af993b0042c09/0334af9ac808e921e/index.html > > > Enjoy the view of the many photos. > > Many greetings Mirko > > > Mirko Graul Meteorite > Quittenring.4 > 16321 Bernau > GERMANY > > Phone: 0049-1724105015 > E-Mail: m_graul at yahoo.de > > IMCA-Member: 2113 > (International Meteorite Collectors Association) > > Web: www.meteorite-mirko.de > > > __________________________________________________________ > Gesendet von Yahoo! Mail. > Dem pfiffigeren Posteingang. > http://de.overview.mail.yahoo.com > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _________________________________________________________________ Find hidden words, unscramble celebrity names, or try the ultimate crossword puzzle with Live Search Games. Play now! http://g.msn.ca/ca55/212 From STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com Wed Jun 25 16:28:01 2008 From: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com (STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:28:01 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite dealers Message-ID: Hi list, My micrograph gallery gets me some interesting emails from people whom are not part of the meteorite world. I just got this email from a company that wants to purchase meteorites to be used as a give away? I occasionally sell on eBay but I do not look at myself as a meteorite dealer by any stretch. I have no personal knowledge of this company and have no idea of the quantities involved. I just thought I would pass it along to any one who wanted to email them. I think there is fear of fake meteorites that causes many to be over cautious as they enter the world of meteorite ownership for the first time. I got the OK to pass on his email so any contact will not come as a surprise. Tom "Hi Tom, We were looking at purchasing small pieces of meteorites to give out to all the employees of our organization. Why Meteorites? As you can see the company corporate logo below, we have stars in it and to our understanding meteorites are nothing but ?star dust??.correct us if we are wrong. What we need from you? Firstly, please let us know if we can buy the meteorites Secondly, from where can we buy authentic meteorites? Brief note on what we do? We are one of the leading event management companies in India. A brief introduction of the company is mentioned below for your reference. Introduction of our company Our full title is Wizcraft International Entertainment Pvt Ltd. We are probably known better as 'Wizcraft'. We're a team of individuals tied together through a desire to create truly inspiring and engaging experiences that help companies improve their performance, increase sales, achieve growth and build brands. We use a mix of communication techniques and media (including live events, print, web, environments and film) to work with companies and brands to help change specific beliefs and behaviours in order to strengthen relationships, increase understanding and deliver sustainable business results. Each year, we create hundreds of experiences for leading brands across every industry sector. Through a unique combination of strategic, creative and delivery specialists we provide thinking and creativity combined with an unrivalled ability to design and deliver programmes for many different types of audiences. Our clients represent nearly 75% of India's top corporate houses. "Wizcraft" has executed sporting events in India like national Games, Afro Asian Games, and the handover ceremony of common wealth games at Melbourne Australia. "Wizcraft" has created brands like IIFA Awards which are like the Oscars to the Indian Cinema. We recently executed this in Bangkok, Thailand. Have put fashion in India on a high Platform with the F-Awards. Much of our work is aimed at employees - helping to create honest encounters and dialogue, provide clarity and insight and help support the process of change for the people vital to the continued success of a business. This internal focus is a large percentage of the work we do with our clients but is by no means all. We also have a long and proud track record of creating powerful experiences aimed at other key audiences - business customers, consumers, stakeholders, the media and the general public. No matter the audience - from visitors to a trade exhibition or a conference, to those watching the Opening and Closing ceremonies of the first Afro Asian Games - we aim to engage, surprise and reward participation and help strengthen the relationship between all those involved. If you'd like to know more about what we do and who we do it for, take a Look at our website: www.wizcraftworld.com. We would really appreciate your help in giving us the above information. Thanks & Regards Naveen Ghantasala, Asst. Manager ? Operations, Wizcraft International Entertainment PVT Ltd. No ? 25, 12th B Main, HAL 2nd Stage, Indiranagar, Bangalore 38 Tel: - +91 80 25216952, Fax: - +91 80 25272760, Hand Phone: - +91 9845557484 Website: www.wizcraftworld.com " **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) From mlblood at cox.net Wed Jun 25 16:32:51 2008 From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael L Blood) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 13:32:51 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Peep Show - "Tit for Tat" In-Reply-To: <07aa01c8d6dc$a6a99560$8eb6fea9@Gregor> Message-ID: Obviously, The Aphrodite Stone. What do I win? Michael on 6/25/08 9:00 AM, Greg Hupe at gmhupe at htn.net wrote: > Dear List Members, > > To go along with today's "Picture of The Day", graciously hosted by Michael > Johnson, here are some additional photos of the younger, healthier sister to > the "Venus Stone": > > "Tit for Tat" > The younger, healthier sister squaring off to the "Venus Stone" (replica > shown). A 2413-gram Saharan chondrite displaying subtle, yet stunning flow > lines cresting over to the back side of this remarkable center-piece. > http://www.lunarrock.com/6-25-2008/tit-4-tat.jpg > > Side View > http://www.lunarrock.com/6-25-2008/dsc00010.jpg > > Left View > http://www.lunarrock.com/6-25-2008/dsc00007.jpg > > Right View > http://www.lunarrock.com/6-25-2008/dsc00012.jpg > > I think the younger sister needs a name. "Pamela" has been suggested, any > other names you may have in mind? > > Enjoy! > Greg > > ==================== > Greg Hupe > The Hupe Collection > NaturesVault (eBay) > gmhupe at htn.net > www.LunarRock.com > IMCA 3163 > ==================== > Click here for my current eBay auctions: > http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably.. And never regret anything that made you smile. From Thomas.Kurtz at gmx.de Wed Jun 25 17:35:21 2008 From: Thomas.Kurtz at gmx.de (Thomas Kurtz) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 23:35:21 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Paneth-meteorite kolloqium 29.-31 October 2008 in Ries-crater Message-ID: <20080625213521.245100@gmx.net> Dear Meteorite friends, end of October (29.-30.) 2008, there will be a lot of interesting meteorite-lectures in the Ries-crater in Germany. (all will be in english) When you ever planned to visit the crater, this will be an interesting opportunity to register for the colloqium too. 80 participants registered already. The Paneth-Kolloquium is a small European meeting that brings together students and researchers from different fields of cosmochemistry, planetology and astrophysics. All information about the Paneth-Kolloquium 2008, registration and registration fee, abstract submission as well as accommodation is available at http://www.kosmochemie.de/ Deadline for late registration: October 15 Deadline for abstract submission: September 30 Everybody from the list, who will register, please let me know, because I?m living since 2007 in the Ries-crater and could give you some support. With best wishes from Germany, Thomas -- Psssst! Schon vom neuen GMX MultiMessenger geh?rt? Der kann`s mit allen: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/multimessenger From bobadebt at ec.rr.com Wed Jun 25 18:30:30 2008 From: bobadebt at ec.rr.com (David & Kitt Deyarmin) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 18:30:30 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Is this a meteorite Message-ID: <004e01c8d713$133acbf0$832ab841@David> A friend of mine who lives in Germany was given this and was told it was a meteorite. http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p298/BobaDebt/Meteorites/Markus.jpg I told him I didn't recognize it as a meteorite bit I figured I would post here just to be sure. Does anyone know what this is? Thanks From stm at bellsouth.net Wed Jun 25 19:28:25 2008 From: stm at bellsouth.net (Sean T. Murray) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 19:28:25 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Is this a meteorite References: <004e01c8d713$133acbf0$832ab841@David> Message-ID: <00D9ADCB910D4226B2D1F081B91B6515@platinum> Looks like Silica Metal. I have something like that myself. Man made byproduct of smelting... I found some in the woods when I was 8 or 9 - kept it as my "first meteorite" and still have it on the shelf - good example of a wrong to show people... http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk196/STM_images/Meteorites/Wrongs001.jpg Sean. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David & Kitt Deyarmin" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 6:30 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Is this a meteorite >A friend of mine who lives in Germany was given this and was told it was a >meteorite. > > > > http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p298/BobaDebt/Meteorites/Markus.jpg > > > I told him I didn't recognize it as a meteorite bit I figured I would post > here just to be sure. > > Does anyone know what this is? > > Thanks > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From monel at sprynet.com Wed Jun 25 20:23:34 2008 From: monel at sprynet.com (Drake) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 20:23:34 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Is this a meteorite In-Reply-To: <004e01c8d713$133acbf0$832ab841@David> References: <004e01c8d713$133acbf0$832ab841@David> Message-ID: Looks to me like Chromium. The link is to a picture of a piece of chromium I have here. http://www.nepra.com/cr.JPG Drake "A rock pile ceases to be a pile of rocks, the moment one contemplates it and envisions a cathedral." Drake "Doc" Damer?u L3CC Member http://home.sprynet.com/~monel/ www.rocketmaterials.org www.endlessmountaincandle.com www.nepra.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "David & Kitt Deyarmin" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 6:30 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Is this a meteorite >A friend of mine who lives in Germany was given this and was told it was a >meteorite. > > > > http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p298/BobaDebt/Meteorites/Markus.jpg > > > I told him I didn't recognize it as a meteorite bit I figured I would post > here just to be sure. > > Does anyone know what this is? > > Thanks > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoritemall at yahoo.com Wed Jun 25 20:41:14 2008 From: meteoritemall at yahoo.com (Ruben Garcia) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 17:41:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Is this a meteorite In-Reply-To: <00D9ADCB910D4226B2D1F081B91B6515@platinum> Message-ID: <820259.51566.qm@web32502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> It looks like Nantan there's a lot of this at the Gem and Mineral shows. I have some that Skip Wilson gave me, looks just like it..... Take a look at mine. http://www.mr-meteorite.com/nantan.htm Ruben Garcia Phoenix, Arizona http://www.mr-meteorite.com --- On Wed, 6/25/08, Sean T. Murray wrote: > From: Sean T. Murray > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Is this a meteorite > To: "David & Kitt Deyarmin" , meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Wednesday, June 25, 2008, 4:28 PM > Looks like Silica Metal. I have something like that myself. > Man made > byproduct of smelting... I found some in the woods when I > was 8 or 9 - kept > it as my "first meteorite" and still have it on > the shelf - good example of > a wrong to show people... > > http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk196/STM_images/Meteorites/Wrongs001.jpg > > Sean. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David & Kitt Deyarmin" > > To: > Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 6:30 PM > Subject: [meteorite-list] Is this a meteorite > > > >A friend of mine who lives in Germany was given this > and was told it was a > >meteorite. > > > > > > > > > http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p298/BobaDebt/Meteorites/Markus.jpg > > > > > > I told him I didn't recognize it as a meteorite > bit I figured I would post > > here just to be sure. > > > > Does anyone know what this is? > > > > Thanks > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From grf2 at verizon.net Wed Jun 25 20:54:02 2008 From: grf2 at verizon.net (Jerry) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 20:54:02 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 25, 2008 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A1174A25E2C4EBC8B24D487E92D154F@Notebook> Tsk, tsk, tsk [though true!!] Jerry Flaherty ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 12:38 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 25, 2008 > http://www.rocksfromspace.org/June_25_2008.html > > > > > **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for > fuel-efficient used cars. > (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From grf2 at verizon.net Wed Jun 25 21:27:09 2008 From: grf2 at verizon.net (Jerry) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 21:27:09 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Glass in meteorites In-Reply-To: References: <4A666D94-C773-4945-954F-CE7FAE10FE7A@dof3.com> Message-ID: <22F6686D75CA46ED97639552090614D3@Notebook> I guess there's glass and then there's GLASS. Jerry Flaherty ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darren Garrison" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 12:03 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Glass in meteorites Have any studies been done on "decay" of glasses in meteorites into crystaline configurations? Is there a mesurable rate, or does it not happen? This story brought that to mind-- if impact-generated glasses in meteorites HAVE NOT "decayed" into crystaline material in 4 billion years, it's fairly good evidence that it won't happen "in billions of years", as the story speculates. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,370864,00.html Scientists have made a breakthrough discovery in the bizarre properties of glass, which behaves at times like both a solid and a liquid. The finding could lead to aircraft that look like Wonder Woman's plane. Such planes could have wings of glass or something called metallic glass, rather than being totally invisible. The breakthrough involved solving the decades-old problem of just what glass is. It has been known that that despite its solid appearance, glass and gels are actually in a "jammed" state of matter - somewhere between liquid and solid - that moves very slowly. Like cars in a traffic jam, atoms in a glass are in something like suspended animation, unable to reach their destination because the route is blocked by their neighbors. So even though glass is a hard substance, it never quite becomes a proper solid, according to chemists and materials scientists. Work so far has concentrated on trying to understand the traffic jam, but now Paddy Royall from the University of Bristol in England, with colleagues in Canberra, Australia and Tokyo, has shown that glass fails to be a solid due to the special atomic structures that form in a glass when it cools. Icosahedron jams Some materials crystallize as they cool, arranging their atoms into a highly regular pattern called a lattice, Royall said, but although glass "wants" to be a crystal, as it cools the atoms become jammed in a nearly random arrangement, preventing it from forming a regular lattice. In the 1950s, Sir Charles Frank in the Physics Department at Bristol suggested that the arrangement of the "jam" should form what is known as an icosahedron, but at the time he was unable to prove it. An icosahedron is like a 3-D pentagon, and just as you cannot tile a floor with pentagons, you cannot fill 3-D space with icosahedrons, Royall explained. That is, you can't make a lattice out of pentagons. When it comes to glass, Frank thought, there is a competition between crystal formation and pentagons that prevents the construction of a crystal. If you cool a liquid down and it makes a lot of pentagons and the pentagons survive, the crystal cannot form. It turns out that Frank was right, Royall said, and his team proved this experimentally. You can't watch what happens to atoms as they cool because they are too small, so Royall and his colleagues used special particles called colloids that mimic atoms, but are large enough to be visible using state-of-the-art microscopy. The team cooled some down and watched what happened. What they found was that the gel these particles formed also "wants" to be a crystal, but it fails to become one due to the formation of icosahedra-like structures - exactly as Frank had predicted. "It is the formation of these structures that underlie jammed materials and explains why a glass is a glass and not a liquid - or a solid," Royall said. The findings are detailed in the June 22 issue of the journal Nature Materials. The research was supported in part by a grant from Britain's Ministry of Education, Culture, Sports, Science and Technology as well as the Royal Society. Preventing jetliner disasters Knowing the structure formed by atoms as a glass cools represents a major breakthrough in the understanding of meta-stable materials and will allow further development of new strong yet light materials called metallic glasses, Royall said, which is already used to make some golf clubs. This stuff is generally shiny black in color, not transparent, due to having a lot of free electrons (think of mercury in an old thermometer). Metals normally crystallize when they cool, but stress builds up along the boundaries between crystals, which can lead to metal failure. For example, the world's first jetliner, the British built De Havilland Comet, fell out of the sky due to metal failure. When metals are be made to cool with the same internal structure as a glass and without crystal grain boundaries, they are less likely to fail, Royall said. Metallic glasses could be suitable for a whole range of products beyond golf clubs that need to be flexible such as aircraft wings and engine parts, he said. Glass is not what it seems Royall is part of a group of scientists who think that if you wait long enough, perhaps billions of years, all glass will eventually crystallize into a true solid. In other words, glass is not in an equilibrium state, he believes, although it appears that way to us during our limited lifetimes. "This is not universally accepted," Royall told LiveScience. "Our work will go some way to making that point more accepted. I think there is a growing weight of evidence that certainly many glasses 'want' to be a crystal." Still, glass "looks like a liquid and this is one of the great riddles that we have gone some way to solving," Royall said. "It has always been thought that glass has same structure as a liquid, and that's why it looks like it. It does not have same structure as liquid." Copyright ? 2008 Imaginova Corp. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed. ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com Wed Jun 25 21:28:25 2008 From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 18:28:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] looking for a nicely sculpted taza Message-ID: <446592.99372.qm@web57815.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi list.I am looking for a nicely sculpted taza iron.200 to 500 grams.I have $900 to spend.I can paypal right now if the right piece comes around.Let me know off list. Steve R.Arnold,chicago,Ill,Usa!! ???? The Asteroid Belt! ??? http://chicagometeorites.net/ ??? Collecting Meteorites since 06/19/1999 ??? Ebay I.D. Illinoismeteorites From grf2 at verizon.net Wed Jun 25 21:36:18 2008 From: grf2 at verizon.net (Jerry) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 21:36:18 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Paneth-meteorite kolloqium 29.-31 October 2008 inRies-crater In-Reply-To: <20080625213521.245100@gmx.net> References: <20080625213521.245100@gmx.net> Message-ID: <9C484C96E2D34AD18F82DC3A668F5A43@Notebook> Sounds like a terrific opportunity Thomas. I wish I could attend. Perhaps an article in Meteorite Magazine highlighting some of the lectures might be something that many of us on the List would benefit from. Thanks. Jerry Flaherty ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Kurtz" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 5:35 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Paneth-meteorite kolloqium 29.-31 October 2008 inRies-crater Dear Meteorite friends, end of October (29.-30.) 2008, there will be a lot of interesting meteorite-lectures in the Ries-crater in Germany. (all will be in english) When you ever planned to visit the crater, this will be an interesting opportunity to register for the colloqium too. 80 participants registered already. The Paneth-Kolloquium is a small European meeting that brings together students and researchers from different fields of cosmochemistry, planetology and astrophysics. All information about the Paneth-Kolloquium 2008, registration and registration fee, abstract submission as well as accommodation is available at http://www.kosmochemie.de/ Deadline for late registration: October 15 Deadline for abstract submission: September 30 Everybody from the list, who will register, please let me know, because I?m living since 2007 in the Ries-crater and could give you some support. With best wishes from Germany, Thomas -- Psssst! Schon vom neuen GMX MultiMessenger geh?rt? Der kann`s mit allen: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/multimessenger ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From grf2 at verizon.net Wed Jun 25 21:53:40 2008 From: grf2 at verizon.net (Jerry) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 21:53:40 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Google too Message-ID: <0FB0314887C947FFA7D55F8AC57253B5@Notebook> By KENNETH CHANG The lopsided shape of Mars may well be the result of a cataclysmic impact of a Pluto-size meteor billions of years ago, three teams of scientists are reporting. New theory on the two faces of Mars: gigantic solar collision San Francisco Chronicle Scientists think Mars took a punch that made it two-faced USA Today BBC News - The Associated Press - Scientific American - National Geographic all 163 news articles ? Jerry Flaherty From lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu Wed Jun 25 22:25:23 2008 From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu (lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 19:25:23 -0700 (MST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Paneth-meteorite kolloqium 29.-31 October 2008 inRies-crater In-Reply-To: <9C484C96E2D34AD18F82DC3A668F5A43@Notebook> References: <20080625213521.245100@gmx.net> <9C484C96E2D34AD18F82DC3A668F5A43@Notebook> Message-ID: <53113.71.226.60.25.1214447123.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> Hello Thomas: An article in Meteorite magazine sounds good to me. Does not need to be long or techncal. Larry PS Thomas, please let me know if you get this. Our University system is not allowing me to email to you for some reason. Jerry, can you forward this to Thomas, just in case? Thnx On Wed, June 25, 2008 6:36 pm, Jerry wrote: > Sounds like a terrific opportunity Thomas. I wish I could attend. Perhaps > an article in Meteorite Magazine highlighting some of the lectures might > be something that many of us on the List would benefit from. Thanks. > Jerry Flaherty > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Thomas Kurtz" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 5:35 PM > Subject: [meteorite-list] Paneth-meteorite kolloqium 29.-31 October 2008 > inRies-crater > > > Dear Meteorite friends, > > > end of October (29.-30.) 2008, there will be a lot of interesting > meteorite-lectures in the Ries-crater in Germany. (all will be in english) > > > When you ever planned to visit the crater, this will be an interesting > opportunity to register for the colloqium too. 80 participants registered > already. > > The Paneth-Kolloquium is a small European meeting that brings together > students and researchers from different fields of cosmochemistry, > planetology and astrophysics. > > All information about the Paneth-Kolloquium 2008, registration and > registration fee, abstract submission as well as accommodation is available > at http://www.kosmochemie.de/ > > Deadline for late registration: October 15 > Deadline for abstract submission: September 30 > > > Everybody from the list, who will register, please let me know, because > I?m > living since 2007 in the Ries-crater and could give you some support. > > With best wishes from Germany, > > > Thomas > > > > > > > -- > Psssst! Schon vom neuen GMX MultiMessenger geh?rt? > Der kann`s mit allen: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/multimessenger > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From codale0806 at rogers.com Wed Jun 25 22:30:55 2008 From: codale0806 at rogers.com (Charles O'Dale) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 22:30:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Santa Fe, NM Impact Crater Latitude and Longitude In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <457104.54477.qm@web88005.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Thank you everyone for responding to my question regarding the newly discovered Santa Fe impact structure. If I ever fly over the area, I will post my pictures of the "crater". Thanks again Chuck http://www.ottawa.rasc.ca/articles/odale_chuck/earth_craters/index.html From STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com Thu Jun 26 00:34:07 2008 From: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com (STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 00:34:07 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman Chondrule paper in Science Message-ID: Hi list, I just read Jeff's paper on chondrule and chondrite formation. I'm still trying to get my brain around some of the points. Well done!!! A whole new way of looking at everything! I had a question related to the paper but just a little off topic. It is directed to Jeff but any one with knowledge in this area should jump in. The many structures found in chondrules, are they formed during the condensation process at formation or later during subsequent heating and shock events? Perhaps both? I often see structures within chondrules that give the appearance (at least) of having grown out of chemical reactions within the chondrule. Structures that I can not imagine shock forces having caused. Tom Phillips In a message dated 6/25/2008 7:27:00 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time, jbaxter112 at pol.net writes: Hi Jeff, Congratulations on the cover story in Science on formation conditions of chondrules. Your color photograph of a Semarkona cross section is fabulous. Cheers, Jim Baxter > I think it is fairly clear that the glass in chondrites, which forms in > chondrules because of their rapid cooling from a partially molten > state, is stable on the time-scale of the age of the solar > system. In the most primitive chondrites, the ones unaffected by > reheating or alteration on asteroids, the glass is preserved in > pristine condition to this day. In metamorphosed chondrites, glass may > survive in protected areas of type 3.9-4 material, but the > reheating caused most of the glass to crystallize into feldspar early > in solar system history. In aqueously altered chondrites, like CMs, the > glass was mostly replaced by phyllosilicates and other phases due to > the chemical action of water on the asteroid. Water is apparently a key > ingredient in devitrifying silicate glasses, especially > important in earth rocks. > > The image on Tom's website is almost certainly one of dendrites > (probably olivine) in what was once glass. These dendrites were the > result of rapid crystallization during cooling of a chondrule > melt. Because this is a metamorphosed chondrite, the glass is now most > likely replaced by fine-grained feldspathic material. > > Jeff > > At 12:24 AM 6/25/2008, STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com wrote: >>Hi, Several years ago I ran onto an unusual chondrule in JaH 055 >> that looks like glass but it is forming in crystals. I have had >> various explanations presented to me and all involved "Glass" This >> might be "On topic"? If any one is up to taking a look and sharing >> their observations, I would greatly appreciate it. Just go to my >> Meteorite Times Micrograph >>Gallery >>http://www.meteorite.com/meteorite-gallery/meteorites-alpha_frame.htm >> and select alphabetical sorting, JaH 055, and then >>crystal structure. These shots were produced using incident >>(reflected light). Thanks, Tom Phillips In a message dated >>6/24/2008 10:02:55 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, cynapse at charter.net >> writes: Have any studies been done on "decay" of glasses in >>meteorites into crystaline configurations? Is there a mesurable >> rate, or does it not happen? This story brought that to mind-- if >> impact-generated glasses in meteorites HAVE NOT "decayed" into >>crystaline material in 4 billion years, it's fairly good evidence >> that it won't happen "in billions of years", as the story speculates. > > Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703) 648-6184 > US Geological Survey fax: (703) 648-6383 > 954 National Center > Reston, VA 20192, USA > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) From cynapse at charter.net Thu Jun 26 00:42:45 2008 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 00:42:45 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Traces of Catastrophe-- A Handbook of Shock-Metamorphic Effects in Terrestrial Meteorite Impact Structures In-Reply-To: <0FB0314887C947FFA7D55F8AC57253B5@Notebook> References: <0FB0314887C947FFA7D55F8AC57253B5@Notebook> Message-ID: <367664dn9fenmmin8ur4nbnsd5l6udac1f@4ax.com> http://www.scribd.com/doc/2945478/Traces-of-Catastrophe You have to (painlessly) regester to download it. I had a difficult time downloading it-- Acrobat kept timing out in Mozilla, finally managed to download it through IE. I'd share it on my web space, but it is slightly too large to fit. From cynapse at charter.net Thu Jun 26 00:49:24 2008 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 00:49:24 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] The Fire Came By (Tungska) In-Reply-To: <0FB0314887C947FFA7D55F8AC57253B5@Notebook> References: <0FB0314887C947FFA7D55F8AC57253B5@Notebook> Message-ID: <3s7664pe3n7237k4vt41lste6a1ijlavia@4ax.com> I still remember finding (and reading) this book in my school library back when I was in primary school back in the late 70's early 80's: http://www.scribd.com/doc/3188210/-The-Fire-Came-By- From marco.langbroek at wanadoo.nl Thu Jun 26 02:50:03 2008 From: marco.langbroek at wanadoo.nl (Marco Langbroek) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 08:50:03 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] The Sommelsdijk "meteorite": is not a meteorite Message-ID: <48633C1B.1000309@wanadoo.nl> Last Saturday- on Sunday night between 22:00 and 10:00 an object hit a farm in Sommelsdijk on Flakkee, one of the Dutch islands, and caused damage to a window post. Thought was going towards a possible meteorite impact. Yesterday afternoon I visited the farm for an inspection of the object and the damage it did. When I arrived there were two camera teams waiting, and shortly after a third arrived plus two radio teams.... Didn't expect all that attention! So last evening I could see myself back in the 23:00 national TV news.... It is not a meteorite. Much too weathered. What it is, I am not sure. Initially I thought it could be a piece of natural bog iron, but it seems a bit too solid metallic for that to me. The metal appears a bit soft though, not as hard as you would expect from industrial steel. The damage to the window post is considerable. It is a thick polymer window post, so quite some force was needed. The window post was new, placed a mere 4-5 weeks ago. I doubt whether simply throwing the object would have been able to create such damage. From the impact marks, I'd say it came in under an angle of no more than 40-50 degrees with the horizontal. It did not come from the direction of the road, but from the direction of the agricultural fields. There were no machines working the field that night though. So: not a meteorite, but it remains a weird case. I have the object temporary on loan for a further inspection at our faculty. - Marco ----- Dr Marco Langbroek Dutch Meteor Society (DMS) e-mail: meteorites at dmsweb.org DMS website: http://www.dmsweb.org private website: http://www.marcolangbroek.nl ----- From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Thu Jun 26 06:17:33 2008 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 06:17:33 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 26, 2008 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/June_26_2008.html ___________________ **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) From jgrossman at usgs.gov Thu Jun 26 06:23:57 2008 From: jgrossman at usgs.gov (Jeff Grossman) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 06:23:57 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman Chondrule paper in Science In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: People who study the origin of chondrules try to select chondrites in which the effects of secondary shock and heating are minimal. Semarkona, in our paper, is a good choice because it is petrologic type 3.01 and only lightly shocked. Except for a small amount of glass in the outer parts of some chondrules that was affected by squeous alteration, the silicate phases are pristine and in the same condition as when the chondrule originally formed (not necessarily by condensation, however). Shock and metamorphism can certainly affect the structure of chondrules in a variety of ways, although I'm not sure what you're seeing that could be described as growth from chemical reactions within the chondrule. Jeff At 12:34 AM 6/26/2008, STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com wrote: >Hi list, I just read Jeff's paper on chondrule and chondrite formation. >I'm still trying to get my brain around some of the points. > >Well done!!! A whole new way of looking at everything! > >I had a question related to the paper but just a little off topic. It is >directed to Jeff but any one with knowledge in this area should jump in. > >The many structures found in chondrules, are they formed during the >condensation process at formation or later during subsequent >heating and shock events? > >Perhaps both? I often see structures within chondrules that give the >appearance (at least) of having grown out of chemical reactions within the >chondrule. Structures that I can not imagine shock forces having caused. > >Tom Phillips > >In a message dated 6/25/2008 7:27:00 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time, >jbaxter112 at pol.net writes: >Hi Jeff, > >Congratulations on the cover story in Science on formation conditions of >chondrules. Your color photograph of a Semarkona cross section is >fabulous. > >Cheers, >Jim Baxter > > > I think it is fairly clear that the glass in chondrites, which forms in > > chondrules because of their rapid cooling from a partially molten > > state, is stable on the time-scale of the age of the solar > > system. In the most primitive chondrites, the ones unaffected by > > reheating or alteration on asteroids, the glass is preserved in > > pristine condition to this day. In metamorphosed chondrites, glass may > > survive in protected areas of type 3.9-4 material, but the > > reheating caused most of the glass to crystallize into feldspar early > > in solar system history. In aqueously altered chondrites, like CMs, the > > glass was mostly replaced by phyllosilicates and other phases due to > > the chemical action of water on the asteroid. Water is apparently a key > > ingredient in devitrifying silicate glasses, especially > > important in earth rocks. > > > > The image on Tom's website is almost certainly one of dendrites > > (probably olivine) in what was once glass. These dendrites were the > > result of rapid crystallization during cooling of a chondrule > > melt. Because this is a metamorphosed chondrite, the glass is now most > > likely replaced by fine-grained feldspathic material. > > > > Jeff > > > > At 12:24 AM 6/25/2008, STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com wrote: > >>Hi, Several years ago I ran onto an unusual chondrule in JaH 055 > >> that looks like glass but it is forming in crystals. I have had > >> various explanations presented to me and all involved "Glass" This > >> might be "On topic"? If any one is up to taking a look and sharing > >> their observations, I would greatly appreciate it. Just go to my > >> Meteorite Times Micrograph > >>Gallery > >>http://www.meteorite.com/meteorite-gallery/meteorites-alpha_frame.htm > >> and select alphabetical sorting, JaH 055, and then > >>crystal structure. These shots were produced using incident > >>(reflected light). Thanks, Tom Phillips In a message dated > >>6/24/2008 10:02:55 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, cynapse at charter.net > >> writes: Have any studies been done on "decay" of glasses in > >>meteorites into crystaline configurations? Is there a mesurable > >> rate, or does it not happen? This story brought that to mind-- if > >> impact-generated glasses in meteorites HAVE NOT "decayed" into > >>crystaline material in 4 billion years, it's fairly good evidence > >> that it won't happen "in billions of years", as the story speculates. > > > > Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703) 648-6184 > > US Geological Survey fax: (703) 648-6383 > > 954 National Center > > Reston, VA 20192, USA > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > >______________________________________________ >http://www.meteoritecentral.com >Meteorite-list mailing list >Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > >**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for >fuel-efficient used >cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) >______________________________________________ >http://www.meteoritecentral.com >Meteorite-list mailing list >Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703) 648-6184 US Geological Survey fax: (703) 648-6383 954 National Center Reston, VA 20192, USA From nwa482 at comcast.net Thu Jun 26 07:35:13 2008 From: nwa482 at comcast.net (Jim Strope) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 07:35:13 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Ebay Auctions ending - Planetaries etc Message-ID: <000201c8d780$b336d500$0202a8c0@DJQVK441> Good Morning All........ I have auctions ending tonight, ebay ID catchafallingstar.com. ALL started at just 99 Cents!!! FULL RECAP: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZcatchafallingstar.com Of special note, I have a 3 Planetaries to offer this time: NWA 2995 Lunar, has beautiful ANORTHOSITIC clasts: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200230788779 NWA 2977 Lunar Gabbro, with FUSION CRUST: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200230789386 NWA 2986 Martian Shergottite: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200230790006 Plus many more. Including four of the Meteorite Medals/Coins started at no reserve: http://members.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPage&userid=catchafallingstar.com Thanks for looking ................ Jim Strope http://www.catchafallingstar.com From bristolia at yahoo.com Thu Jun 26 09:05:06 2008 From: bristolia at yahoo.com (Paul) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 06:05:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] 100th Anniversary of the Tunguska impact Nature issue Message-ID: <951832.95602.qm@web36204.mail.mud.yahoo.com> The latest issue of Nature (Volume 453 Number 7199) celebrates the 100th Anniversary of the Tunguska impact. It has papers and articles about impact events on the Moon and Mars and NEOs. The URl for this issue is: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v453/n7199/ The articles and papers include: 1. Planetary science: Tunguska at 100 2. Planetary science: The hole at the bottom of the Moon 3. Planetary science: The burger bar that saved the world 4. Gallery feature: All craters great and small 5. What Spaceguard did 6. Planetary science: Forming the martian great divide 7. Mega-impact formation of the Mars hemispheric dichotomy by Margarita M. Marinova, Oded Aharonson & Erik Asphaug http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v453/n7199/abs/nature07070.html 8. The Borealis basin and the origin of the martian crustal dichotomy Jeffrey C. Andrews-Hanna, Maria T. Zuber & W. Bruce Banerdt http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v453/n7199/abs/nature07011.html 9. Implications of an impact origin for the martian hemispheric dichotomy F. Nimmo, S. D. Hart, D. G. Korycansky & C. B. Agnor http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v453/n7199/abs/nature07025.html Giant Asteroid Flattened Half of Mars, Studies Suggest, Scientific American http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=giant-asteroid-flattened Mars' two-faced riddle 'solved', BBC News, UK http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7473128.stm Yours, Paul H. From bristolia at yahoo.com Thu Jun 26 09:08:30 2008 From: bristolia at yahoo.com (Paul) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 06:08:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars hit by huge object four billion years ago, study finds Message-ID: <236487.55003.qm@web36202.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Asteroid impact made Mars two-faced, Telegraph.co.uk, United Kingdom http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtml?view=DETAILS&grid=&xml=/earth/2008/06/25/scimars125.xml Giant impact explains Mars dichotomyEurekAlert (press release), DC http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2008-06/ciot-gie062308.php Mystery Behind Mars?s Lopsided Shape RevealedeFluxMedia http://www.efluxmedia.com/news_Mystery_Behind_Marss_Lopsided_Shape_Revealed_19520.html Yours, Paul H. From dave at fallingrocks.com Thu Jun 26 10:04:05 2008 From: dave at fallingrocks.com (Dave Gheesling) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:04:05 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 26, 2008 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <213AA354B5C84371B364AFC22EC55451@meteorroom> Larry, Michael & All, Fantastic...just FANTASTIC! Dave -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 6:18 AM To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 26, 2008 http://www.rocksfromspace.org/June_26_2008.html ___________________ **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoritefinder at gmail.com Thu Jun 26 12:14:24 2008 From: meteoritefinder at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 09:14:24 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad-- something very new--- sale---- hand made Glorieta damascus meteorite knife. Message-ID: <468bf6050806260914x9a1cfa8ldf415ebae1989a6d@mail.gmail.com> Hi everyone this is something new a hand forged Glorieta Mountain meteorite damascus knife. This is a one of a kind hand forged meteorite knife made by blade smith Mike Miller of Kingman Az. No that is not me he is a real blade smith and we just happen to live in the same town and have the same name. This is a very usable knife not just a show piece it will shave the hair off your arm and hold and edge. The damascus blade is made with 100% Glorieta meteorite in every other layer, the other layers are made with high carbon tool steel. You can have a look here http://www.meteoritefinder.com/glorieta-kives.htm -- Mike Miller 230 Greenway Dr. Kingman Az 86401 www.meteoritefinder.com 928-753-6825 From cynapse at charter.net Thu Jun 26 13:17:50 2008 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:17:50 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] The Gyro-Gravitational Spin Vector Torque Dynamics of Main Belt Asteroids in relationship with their Tilt and their Orbital Inclination.described by using the Maxwell Analogy for gravitation. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Doesn't that title just roll off the tounge? http://d.scribd.com/docs/2c8rowyxtjqjyd4d7bq1.pdf Bonus: http://www.gutenberg.org/files/11583/11583-pdf/11583-pdf.pdf http://d.scribd.com/docs/2jzj1oe3u5h86u3jkcjp.pdf From fuzzfoot at comcast.net Thu Jun 26 13:31:20 2008 From: fuzzfoot at comcast.net (Mike Bandli) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:31:20 +0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] Landowner Lookup Question Message-ID: <062620081731.27766.4863D2680003F45100006C7622007504389B01010096969A00@comcast.net> I am hoping that some of you experienced meteorite hunters can answer a question: What is the simplest/easiest way to lookup private landowner information? More specifically, if I want to find information that will allow me to contact a private landowner of a very remote area here in the Pacific Northwest. Thanks in advance! Mike Bandli www.Astro-Artifacts.com IMCA #5756 From mmorgan at mhmeteorites.com Thu Jun 26 14:29:29 2008 From: mmorgan at mhmeteorites.com (mmorgan at mhmeteorites.com) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:29:29 +0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] Landowner Lookup Question In-Reply-To: <062620081731.27766.4863D2680003F45100006C7622007504389B01010096969A00@comcast.net> References: <062620081731.27766.4863D2680003F45100006C7622007504389B01010096969A00@comcast.net> Message-ID: <1346659006-1214505114-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1024161506-@bxe173.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> I have to look up landowners almost daily when I am out in the field for my job. I always go to the county assessor first. Many now have GIS maps of the area you are looking at that are available on-line. None will give you phone numbers, so you will need to do a reverse address lookup on a site like whitepages.com. Good luck Matt Morgan ---------------------- Matt Morgan Mile High Meteorites http://www.mhmeteorites.com P.O. Box 151293 Lakewood, CO 80215 USA -----Original Message----- From: fuzzfoot at comcast.net (Mike Bandli) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:31:20 To:meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Landowner Lookup Question I am hoping that some of you experienced meteorite hunters can answer a question: What is the simplest/easiest way to lookup private landowner information? More specifically, if I want to find information that will allow me to contact a private landowner of a very remote area here in the Pacific Northwest. Thanks in advance! Mike Bandli www.Astro-Artifacts.com IMCA #5756 ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mccartney at blackbearddata.com Thu Jun 26 15:28:03 2008 From: mccartney at blackbearddata.com (McCartney Taylor) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 14:28:03 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Landowner Lookup Question Message-ID: You'll have a problem. The CAD (county appraisal district) will only have the property info and the mailing addy of the person in question. Often that mailing addy is a PO box, so no crisscross phone # for you. You'll have to send a letter. Courthouse records including a plat map or the local title company may have a title plant which will also help you find the owner, but by far the CAD is the easiest and free way to go, as it is often online. My normal method, is I have to go to location anyway for recon so I simply stop at nearby ranches/farms and show up on doorsteps with a map in my hand. The map is important, as it disarms any distrust from folks, as everyone want to help the lost guy. Then I simply say "I don't THINK I'm lost, but..." and go on to ask about local history, info, who knows the area, and who owns that farm over yonder. -mt -------- Original Message -------- > From: fuzzfoot at comcast.net (Mike Bandli) > Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 12:34 PM > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: [meteorite-list] Landowner Lookup Question > > I am hoping that some of you experienced meteorite hunters can answer a question: What is the simplest/easiest way to lookup private landowner information? More specifically, if I want to find information that will allow me to contact a private landowner of a very remote area here in the Pacific Northwest. > > Thanks in advance! > > Mike Bandli > www.Astro-Artifacts.com > IMCA #5756 > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From pshugar at clearwire.net Thu Jun 26 15:38:06 2008 From: pshugar at clearwire.net (Pete Shugar) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 14:38:06 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA 4716: RFS Picture of the Day - June 24, 2008 References: Message-ID: <000a01c8d7c4$29e38e80$0201a8c0@laptop> It seems that NWA 4716 was not approved till 6 Mar 08 and I purdhased this one on 7 April 07 so it was still provisional at the time of purchase. Therefore the name tag Provisional is (was) valid. Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 10:39 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA 4716: RFS Picture of the Day - June 24, 2008 > Hello Pete, Matteo and List, > > Pete wrote: "New NWA 4716 [Provisional] Meteorite..." > > If the meteorite pictured is NWA 4716, it is no longer provisional. > According to the Met.Bull., it is now an official meteorite name! > > See here: > > http://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/metbull.php?sea=NWA+4716&sfor=names&ants=&falls=&stype=contains&lrec=50&map=ge&browse=&country=All&srt=name&categ=All&mblist=All&phot=&snew=0&pnt=no&code=45643 > > > Cheers, > > Bernd > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From drtanuki at yahoo.com Thu Jun 26 16:32:53 2008 From: drtanuki at yahoo.com (drtanuki) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:32:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Landowner Lookup Question In-Reply-To: <062620081731.27766.4863D2680003F45100006C7622007504389B01010096969A00@comcast.net> Message-ID: <427231.73029.qm@web53212.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Mike, The easiest way is to go the the county court house and visit the county clerk and county land tax people. There are public records of all landowners. You will need to know the location in Township, Range, and Section (or part section, for example R54W, T12, 1/2 NE SEC 13. Best of luck. If that is convenient, stop and ask some locals in the area, at your own risk. Some landowners might not be keen on you checking with the County tax records as they might perceive it as spying on them. Best Regards, Dirk...Tokyo --- On Fri, 6/27/08, Mike Bandli wrote: > From: Mike Bandli > Subject: [meteorite-list] Landowner Lookup Question > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Friday, June 27, 2008, 2:31 AM > I am hoping that some of you experienced meteorite hunters > can answer a question: What is the simplest/easiest way to > lookup private landowner information? More specifically, if > I want to find information that will allow me to contact a > private landowner of a very remote area here in the Pacific > Northwest. > > Thanks in advance! > > Mike Bandli > www.Astro-Artifacts.com > IMCA #5756 > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From grf2 at verizon.net Thu Jun 26 16:38:07 2008 From: grf2 at verizon.net (Jerry) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 16:38:07 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 26, 2008 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <333F8B97889B4BABB7D5BA33320D0C9A@Notebook> Cool. Look at those happy faces. Jerry Flaherty ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 6:17 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 26, 2008 > http://www.rocksfromspace.org/June_26_2008.html > > > > ___________________ > > > > > **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for > fuel-efficient used cars. > (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From cynapse at charter.net Thu Jun 26 16:41:06 2008 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 16:41:06 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] World's dummest geologist In-Reply-To: <03a901c8d752$0eb6a4c0$2346e146@ATARIENGINE> References: <402953.19964.qm@web53211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <031001c8d668$f6424460$2346e146@ATARIENGINE> <038e01c8d726$fcfff0e0$2346e146@ATARIENGINE> <673664tnk6ripklh1s3mbrdfkjstkov9ar@4ax.com> <039701c8d742$b91873e0$2346e146@ATARIENGINE> <039e01c8d74f$f90e6ec0$2346e146@ATARIENGINE> <03a901c8d752$0eb6a4c0$2346e146@ATARIENGINE> Message-ID: <3gv764dogbr7tlom84tm8idr9kdi08d8vh@4ax.com> http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/66318 From cynapse at charter.net Thu Jun 26 16:41:50 2008 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 16:41:50 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Earthites on the moon In-Reply-To: <236487.55003.qm@web36202.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <236487.55003.qm@web36202.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6nv764diekch9hqsa26c42eeblgbghkkmp@4ax.com> http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/080626-am-earth-moon.html Bits of Ancient Earth Hidden on the Moon By John Ruley Astrobiology Magazine posted: 26 June 2008 06:55 am ET Some scientists believe that at least one meteorite found in Antarctica preserves evidence of ancient life on Mars. Now, work by a team of English scientists reinforces an earlier suggestion that evidence of life on the early Earth might be found in meteorites on the moon. The original idea was presented in a 2002 paper by University of Washington astronomer John Armstrong, who suggested that material ejected from Earth during the Late Heavy Bombardment (a period about four billion years ago when the Earth was subjected to a rain of asteroids and comets) might be found on the moon. Armstrong's suggestion was interesting, but whether a meteor ejected from the Earth might arrive intact on the moon remained an open question. New research by a team under Ian Crawford and Emily Baldwin of the Birkbeck College School of Earth Sciences used more sophisticated means to simulate the pressures any such terrestrial meteorites might have experienced during their arrival on the lunar surface. This confirmed Armstrong's hypothesis. In many cases, the pressures could be low enough to permit the survival of biological markers, making the lunar surface a good place to look for evidence of early terrestrial life. Any such markers are unlikely to remain on Earth, where they would have been erased long ago by more than three billion years of volcanic activity, later meteor impacts, or simple erosion by wind and rain. Crash landings Given that material from early Mars has been found in meteorites on Earth, it certainly seems reasonable that material from the early Earth could be found on the moon. Indeed, Armstrong's paper estimated that tens of thousands of tons of terrestrial meteorites may have arrived there during the Late Heavy Bombardment. However, there is a problem: The moon lacks any appreciable atmosphere. Meteorites arriving on Earth are decelerated by passing through our atmosphere. As a result, while the surface of the meteorite may melt, the interior is often preserved intact. Could a meteorite from Earth survive a high-velocity impact on the lunar surface? Crawford and Baldwin's analysis, based on commercially available software called AUTDYN, used finite element analysis to simulate the behavior of two different types of meteors impacting the lunar surface. Armstrong's group performed a crude calculation indicating that pressures experienced by a terrestrial meteorite arriving on the moon probably would not be enough to melt it. Crawford and Baldwin's group simulated their meteors as cubes, and calculated pressures at 500 points on the surface of the cube as it impacted the lunar surface at a wide range of impact angles and velocities. In the most extreme case they tested (vertical impact at a speed of some 11,180 mph, or 5 kilometers per second), Crawford reports that "some portions" of the simulated meteorite would have melted, but "the bulk of the projectile, and especially the trailing half, was subjected to much lower pressures." At impact velocities of 2.5 kilometers per second or less, "no part of the projectile even approached a peak pressure at which melting would be expected." He concludes that biomarkers ranging from the presence of organic carbon to "actual microfossils" could have survived the relatively low pressures experienced by the trailing edge of a large meteorite impacting the moon. Hard to find Finding terrestrial meteorites on the moon will be challenging. Crawford suggests that the key to finding terrestrial material is to look for water locked inside. Many minerals on Earth are formed in processes involving water, volcanic activity, or both. By contrast, the moon lacks both water and volcanoes. Minerals formed in the presence of water, called hydrates, can be detected using infrared (IR) spectroscopy. Crawford and his co-authors believe that a high-resolution IR sensor in lunar orbit could be used to detect any large (over one meter) hydrate meteorites on the lunar surface, while a lunar rover with such a sensor "could search for smaller meteorites exposed at the surface." Other planetary astronomers view the issue more conservatively. Dr. Mike Gaffey of the University of North Dakota Space Studies department argues that while "debris from a large terrestrial impact could have reached the moon ... it's highly unlikely that it would be in sufficient concentrations to be seen" using orbital instruments. He believes that the meteorites would be shattered into small pieces by the impact, and then subjected to a form of lunar weathering due to the solar wind and a continuous rain of micrometeoroids that hit the moon. Instead, he suggests that any surviving material from Earth would be fractured into small pieces embedded in ancient lunar soils, some of which might be exposed at the surface by later meteor impacts. Crawford concedes that point, and suggests that it might be necessary to dig below the surface to find terrestrial meteorites. He adds that collecting samples, observing them on the lunar surface, and picking those that warrant a return to Earth for detailed analysis "would be greatly facilitated by a human presence on the moon." The last U.S. astronaut to set foot on the moon, Dr. Harrison Schmitt, was a geologist. If current NASA plans for a return to the moon later in this century are fulfilled, perhaps Dr. Schmitt's successors will search for hydrated rocks, which might unlock the mystery of how life began on the Earth. From dhenderson at cityofrehoboth.com Thu Jun 26 16:50:10 2008 From: dhenderson at cityofrehoboth.com (David O Henderson) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 16:50:10 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Landowner Lookup Question In-Reply-To: <427231.73029.qm@web53212.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <062620081731.27766.4863D2680003F45100006C7622007504389B01010096969A00@comcast.net> <427231.73029.qm@web53212.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <00a101c8d7ce$4b937950$e2ba6bf0$@com> I am a GIS person and handle most data for a lot of places. Its now amazing what is online as far as county records in the US. Vertualy all states now have a GIS database with landowner data bases. Texas is a good example. You can usually just do a search on something like "delaware property tax records" and it will come up for most States. There is almost a national mandate to gather all the Data into GIS data and the 2010 census will use that data to complete the census. While you will not have access to census data the GIS information gathered is public information. If you check around even most other countries are going to GIS systems and recording the same type of information. A search of "GIS DATA" for the location will give you tons of info. Not sure how many of you are using google earth but there is also www.esri.com and then look ArcGIS Explorer. In a lot of areas especially the west the resolution and data is far more extensive than google. Using either one to mark your finds by lat and long is a great tool to map with. As more tools come out for GIS its going to be a great help to any of us who are looking around. Unfortunately I live in Delaware USA so not a lot of good hunting around here but have a ranch in Texas that I hope someday I will have a chance to take some time and look over it is pretty big so that is a retirement project. Have fun researching David O Henderson Information Technology Director City of Rehoboth Beach 229 Rehoboth Ave Rehoboth Beach, DE 19971 302-227-6181 -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of drtanuki Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 4:33 PM To: Mike Bandli; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Landowner Lookup Question Mike, The easiest way is to go the the county court house and visit the county clerk and county land tax people. There are public records of all landowners. You will need to know the location in Township, Range, and Section (or part section, for example R54W, T12, 1/2 NE SEC 13. Best of luck. If that is convenient, stop and ask some locals in the area, at your own risk. Some landowners might not be keen on you checking with the County tax records as they might perceive it as spying on them. Best Regards, Dirk...Tokyo --- On Fri, 6/27/08, Mike Bandli wrote: > From: Mike Bandli > Subject: [meteorite-list] Landowner Lookup Question > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Friday, June 27, 2008, 2:31 AM > I am hoping that some of you experienced meteorite hunters > can answer a question: What is the simplest/easiest way to > lookup private landowner information? More specifically, if > I want to find information that will allow me to contact a > private landowner of a very remote area here in the Pacific > Northwest. > > Thanks in advance! > > Mike Bandli > www.Astro-Artifacts.com > IMCA #5756 > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mccartney at blackbearddata.com Thu Jun 26 17:56:24 2008 From: mccartney at blackbearddata.com (McCartney Taylor) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:56:24 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Using GIS for Meteorite Hunting and Study In-Reply-To: <00a101c8d7ce$4b937950$e2ba6bf0$@com> References: <062620081731.27766.4863D2680003F45100006C7622007504389B01010096969A00@comcast.net> <427231.73029.qm@web53212.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <00a101c8d7ce$4b937950$e2ba6bf0$@com> Message-ID: <1214517384.5568.28.camel@galleon> I, too, am a GIS person. Since Land ownership & GIS has just been brought up, I have to take this one step farther and mention good & free GIS packages. Someone just brought up ESRI as a GIS progam, and I would like to discourage people from using it. ESRI gives you piecemeal crippled software that you'll have to pay licenses for each piece you enable. While there base 'hook' product is free, you can quickly spend $2500 getting the 'Basic GIS' which is just decent GIS (ArcGIS $1500 and ArcView $950). Then the extensions can cost $12,500 to bring you up to a complete GIS system that gives you map webpublishing and db interoperability. All of that is about the same as what GRASS does, but its free. There are some excellent Open Source GIS programs currently available. You can download these for free and have them running within the hour. Quantum can quickly import your GPS data. Both of these run under Windows or Linux. Quantum GIS -- Young, small, and runs fast on old machines. Think of this as a 'dune buggy' of GIS. Use this one first, if you're new to GIS. http://qgis.org/ GRASS GIS -- Mature, stable, powerful, but very complex. Good for 3D and 4D plotting. Like if you wanted to plot a strewnfield thru a mountainous area then do a time lapse flyby. Think of this as a diesel MAC truck of GIS. http://grass.itc.it/ There are a couple of other Open Source GIS packages, but they are immature and not ready yet, IMHO. On getting the basemap to use as your main layer, here's a starting point. http://www.gismonitor.com/data/index.php http://seamless.usgs.gov/ Steps to take once you have your program and basemaps. 1. Load basemap into GIS 2. Load GPS finds into GIS. 3. Make sure you have all data layers on the same projection (like NAD83) 4. Draw polygons of area searched! Important to know where you've been. 5. Draw polygons of area you are ALLOWED to search. Important to know where you can't go. 6. Plot points of where meteorites where found. High Confidence Data gets a special symbol. 7. Plot point of historically found meteorites that you have low confidence of where you think they were found. You could even draw small circle polygons to represent the 'fuzzy' find location. 8. Draw Line of best guess of upper limit of Main fall axis. 9. Draw line of best guess of lower limit of Main fall axis. The space in between is your best greatest statistical chance of finding more. -mt IMCA 2760 copyright 2008 - I reserve all rights to put some of this in my upcoming book. From bobadebt at ec.rr.com Thu Jun 26 18:04:52 2008 From: bobadebt at ec.rr.com (David & Kitt Deyarmin) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:04:52 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Is this a meteorite Message-ID: <011201c8d7d8$a9232660$832ab841@David> Thanks for all the replies. I will relay the bad news to my friend From meteoritemall at yahoo.com Thu Jun 26 18:15:27 2008 From: meteoritemall at yahoo.com (Ruben Garcia) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 15:15:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Is this a meteorite In-Reply-To: <011201c8d7d8$a9232660$832ab841@David> Message-ID: <692434.6025.qm@web32501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> What bad news? You didn't think it looked like this nantan meteorite? http://www.mr-meteorite.com/nantan.htm To me this is the only picture that looked like yours... what did I miss? Ruben Garcia Phoenix, Arizona http://www.mr-meteorite.com http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=meteorfright&p=v --- On Thu, 6/26/08, David & Kitt Deyarmin wrote: > From: David & Kitt Deyarmin > Subject: [meteorite-list] Is this a meteorite > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Thursday, June 26, 2008, 3:04 PM > Thanks for all the replies. > > > I will relay the bad news to my friend > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From stm at bellsouth.net Thu Jun 26 18:25:35 2008 From: stm at bellsouth.net (Sean T. Murray) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:25:35 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Is this a meteorite References: <692434.6025.qm@web32501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <39985C17B3BC4FB39EBEDB684A9BA8DC@platinum> The Nantans I've seen (like the one you mention) don't have such angular/crystal features line the one David showed... I agree it is possible, just didn't look quite right... David - Is yours attracted to a magnet? Silica Metal is not... so if his is attracted to a magnet, it is something else... Possibly the Nantan that Ruben mentions... Sean. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ruben Garcia" To: ; "David & Kitt Deyarmin" Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 6:15 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Is this a meteorite > What bad news? You didn't think it looked like this nantan meteorite? > http://www.mr-meteorite.com/nantan.htm > To me this is the only picture that looked like yours... what did I miss? > > Ruben Garcia > Phoenix, Arizona > http://www.mr-meteorite.com > http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=meteorfright&p=v > > > --- On Thu, 6/26/08, David & Kitt Deyarmin wrote: > >> From: David & Kitt Deyarmin >> Subject: [meteorite-list] Is this a meteorite >> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> Date: Thursday, June 26, 2008, 3:04 PM >> Thanks for all the replies. >> >> >> I will relay the bad news to my friend >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From paseclipse at yahoo.com Thu Jun 26 19:01:16 2008 From: paseclipse at yahoo.com (Del Waterbury) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 16:01:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Landowner Lookup Question In-Reply-To: <00a101c8d7ce$4b937950$e2ba6bf0$@com> Message-ID: <381313.39597.qm@web51303.mail.re2.yahoo.com> One huge difference between Google Earth and all the other GIS software packages I've seen so far (except a few) is the fact that I don't have to fork out 5,000+ dollars to use it... Google Earth only costs me 20 bucks a year. Don't get me wrong because I'd love to use the high end GIS software (especially since I use high end CAD software at work), but that's a very steep price to pay just to plot out coordinates of my finds. Del --- On Thu, 6/26/08, David O Henderson wrote: > From: David O Henderson > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Landowner Lookup Question > To: drtanuki at yahoo.com, "'Mike Bandli'" , meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Thursday, June 26, 2008, 1:50 PM > I am a GIS person and handle most data for a lot of places. > Its now amazing > what is online as far as county records in the US. Vertualy > all states now > have a GIS database with landowner data bases. Texas is a > good example. You > can usually just do a search on something like > "delaware property tax > records" and it will come up for most States. There is > almost a national > mandate to gather all the Data into GIS data and the 2010 > census will use > that data to complete the census. While you will not have > access to census > data the GIS information gathered is public information. If > you check around > even most other countries are going to GIS systems and > recording the same > type of information. A search of "GIS DATA" for > the location will give you > tons of info. Not sure how many of you are using google > earth but there is > also www.esri.com and then look ArcGIS Explorer. In a lot > of areas > especially the west the resolution and data is far more > extensive than > google. Using either one to mark your finds by lat and long > is a great tool > to map with. > As more tools come out for GIS its going to be a great help > to any of us who > are looking around. Unfortunately I live in Delaware USA so > not a lot of > good hunting around here but have a ranch in Texas that I > hope someday I > will have a chance to take some time and look over it is > pretty big so that > is a retirement project. > Have fun researching > > David O Henderson > Information Technology Director > City of Rehoboth Beach > 229 Rehoboth Ave > Rehoboth Beach, DE 19971 > 302-227-6181 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On > Behalf Of drtanuki > Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 4:33 PM > To: Mike Bandli; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Landowner Lookup Question > > Mike, > The easiest way is to go the the county court house and > visit the county > clerk and county land tax people. There are public records > of all > landowners. You will need to know the location in > Township, Range, and > Section (or part section, for example R54W, T12, 1/2 NE SEC > 13. > > Best of luck. If that is convenient, stop and ask some > locals in the > area, at your own risk. > > Some landowners might not be keen on you checking with > the County tax > records as they might perceive it as spying on them. > > Best Regards, Dirk...Tokyo > > > --- On Fri, 6/27/08, Mike Bandli > wrote: > > > From: Mike Bandli > > Subject: [meteorite-list] Landowner Lookup Question > > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > Date: Friday, June 27, 2008, 2:31 AM > > I am hoping that some of you experienced meteorite > hunters > > can answer a question: What is the simplest/easiest > way to > > lookup private landowner information? More > specifically, if > > I want to find information that will allow me to > contact a > > private landowner of a very remote area here in the > Pacific > > Northwest. > > > > Thanks in advance! > > > > Mike Bandli > > www.Astro-Artifacts.com > > IMCA #5756 > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From paseclipse at yahoo.com Thu Jun 26 19:03:29 2008 From: paseclipse at yahoo.com (Del Waterbury) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 16:03:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Using GIS for Meteorite Hunting and Study In-Reply-To: <1214517384.5568.28.camel@galleon> Message-ID: <188711.49198.qm@web51310.mail.re2.yahoo.com> One huge difference between Google Earth and all the other GIS software packages I've seen so far (except a few) is the fact that I don't have to fork out 5,000+ dollars to use it... Google Earth only costs me 20 bucks a year. Don't get me wrong because I'd love to use the high end GIS software (especially since I use high end CAD software at work), but that's a very steep price to pay just to plot out coordinates of my finds. Del --- On Thu, 6/26/08, McCartney Taylor wrote: > From: McCartney Taylor > Subject: [meteorite-list] Using GIS for Meteorite Hunting and Study > To: "MeteoriteList" > Date: Thursday, June 26, 2008, 2:56 PM > I, too, am a GIS person. Since Land ownership & GIS has > just been > brought up, I have to take this one step farther and > mention good & free > GIS packages. > > Someone just brought up ESRI as a GIS progam, and I would > like to > discourage people from using it. ESRI gives you piecemeal > crippled > software that you'll have to pay licenses for each > piece you enable. > While there base 'hook' product is free, you can > quickly spend $2500 > getting the 'Basic GIS' which is just decent GIS > (ArcGIS $1500 and > ArcView $950). Then the extensions can cost $12,500 to > bring you up to > a complete GIS system that gives you map webpublishing and > db > interoperability. All of that is about the same as what > GRASS does, but > its free. > > There are some excellent Open Source GIS programs currently > available. > You can download these for free and have them running > within the hour. > Quantum can quickly import your GPS data. Both of these > run under > Windows or Linux. > > Quantum GIS -- Young, small, and runs fast on old > machines. Think of > this as a 'dune buggy' of GIS. Use this one first, > if you're new to > GIS. > http://qgis.org/ > > GRASS GIS -- Mature, stable, powerful, but very complex. > Good for 3D > and 4D plotting. Like if you wanted to plot a strewnfield > thru a > mountainous area then do a time lapse flyby. Think of this > as a diesel > MAC truck of GIS. > http://grass.itc.it/ > > There are a couple of other Open Source GIS packages, but > they are > immature and not ready yet, IMHO. > > On getting the basemap to use as your main layer, > here's a starting > point. > > http://www.gismonitor.com/data/index.php > http://seamless.usgs.gov/ > > > Steps to take once you have your program and basemaps. > 1. Load basemap into GIS > 2. Load GPS finds into GIS. > 3. Make sure you have all data layers on the same > projection (like > NAD83) > 4. Draw polygons of area searched! Important to know where > you've been. > 5. Draw polygons of area you are ALLOWED to search. > Important to know > where you can't go. > 6. Plot points of where meteorites where found. High > Confidence Data > gets a special symbol. > 7. Plot point of historically found meteorites that you > have low > confidence of where you think they were found. You could > even draw > small circle polygons to represent the 'fuzzy' find > location. > 8. Draw Line of best guess of upper limit of Main fall > axis. > 9. Draw line of best guess of lower limit of Main fall > axis. The space > in between is your best greatest statistical chance of > finding more. > > -mt > IMCA 2760 > > copyright 2008 - I reserve all rights to put some of this > in my upcoming > book. > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Thu Jun 26 19:26:59 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 16:26:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA Spacecraft Reveal Largest Crater in Solar System Message-ID: <200806262326.QAA05542@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> June 25, 2008 Steve Cole Headquarters, Washington 202-358-0918 stephen.e.cole at nasa.gov Guy Webster Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. 818-354-6278 guy.webster at jpl.nasa.gov David Chandler Massachusetts Institute of Technology 617-253-2704 dlc1 at mit.edu RELEASE: 08-159 NASA SPACECRAFT REVEAL LARGEST CRATER IN SOLAR SYSTEM PASADENA, Calif. -- New analysis of Mars' terrain using NASA spacecraft observations reveals what appears to be by far the largest impact crater ever found in the solar system. NASA's Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter and Mars Global Surveyor have provided detailed information about the elevations and gravity of the Red Planet's northern and southern hemispheres. A new study using this information may solve one of the biggest remaining mysteries in the solar system: why does Mars have two strikingly different kinds of terrain in its northern and southern hemispheres? The huge crater is creating intense scientific interest. The mystery of the two-faced nature of Mars has perplexed scientists since the first comprehensive images of the surface were beamed home by NASA spacecraft in the 1970s. The main hypotheses have been an ancient impact or some internal process related to the planet's molten subsurface layers. The impact idea, proposed in 1984, fell into disfavor because the basin's shape didn't seem to fit the expected round shape for a crater. The newer data is convincing some experts who doubted the impact scenario. "We haven't proved the giant-impact hypothesis, but I think we've shifted the tide," said Jeffrey Andrews-Hanna, a postdoctoral researcher at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in Cambridge. Andrews-Hanna and co-authors Maria Zuber of MIT and Bruce Banerdt of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif., report the new findings in the journal Nature this week. A giant northern basin that covers about 40 percent of Mars' surface, sometimes called the Borealis basin, is the remains of a colossal impact early in the solar system's formation, the new analysis suggests. At 5,300 miles across, it is about four times wider than the next-biggest impact basin known, the Hellas basin on southern Mars. An accompanying report calculates that the impacting object that produced the Borealis basin must have been about 1,200 miles across. That's larger than Pluto. "This is an impressive result that has implications not only for the evolution of early Mars, but also for early Earth's formation," said Michael Meyer, the Mars chief scientist at NASA Headquarters in Washington. This northern-hemisphere basin on Mars is one of the smoothest surfaces found in the solar system. The southern hemisphere is high, rough, heavily cratered terrain, which ranges from 2.5 to 5 miles higher in elevation than the basin floor. Other giant impact basins have been discovered that are elliptical rather than circular. But it took a complex analysis of the Martian surface from NASA's two Mars orbiters to reveal the clear elliptical shape of Borealis basin, which is consistent with being an impact crater. One complicating factor in revealing the elliptical shape of the basin was that after the time of the impact, which must have been at least 3.9 billion years ago, giant volcanoes formed along one part of the basin rim and created a huge region of high, rough terrain that obscures the basin's outlines. It took a combination of gravity data, which tend to reveal underlying structure, with data on current surface elevations to reconstruct a map of Mars elevations as they existed before the volcanoes erupted. "In addition to the elliptical boundary of the basin, there are signs of a possible second, outer ring - a typical characteristic of large impact basins," Banerdt said. JPL manages the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter for NASA's Science Mission Directorate, Washington. For more information about the mission, visit: http://www.nasa.gov/mro -end- From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Thu Jun 26 19:31:58 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 16:31:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander Puts Soil in Chemistry Lab, Team Discusses Next Steps Message-ID: <200806262331.QAA06737@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> June 25, 2008 Dwayne Brown Headquarters, Washington 202-358-1726 dwayne.c.brown at nasa.gov Guy Webster Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. 818-354-6278 guy.webster at jpl.nasa.gov Sara Hammond University of Arizona, Tucson 520-626-1974 shammond at lpl.arizona.edu RELEASE: 08-160 NASA'S PHOENIX MARS LANDER PUTS SOIL IN CHEMISTRY LAB, TEAM DISCUSSES NEXT STEPS TUCSON, Ariz. -- NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander placed a sample of Martian soil in the spacecraft's wet chemistry laboratory today for the first time. Results from that instrument, part of Phoenix's Microscopy, Electrochemistry and Conductivity Analyzer, are expected to provide the first measurement of the acidity or alkalinity of the planet's soil. The analysis of this and other soil samples will help researchers determine whether ice beneath the soil ever has melted, and whether the soil has other qualities favorable for life. The Phoenix team is discussing what sample to deliver next to the lander's other analytical instrument, which bakes and sniffs soil to identify volatile ingredients. Engineers have identified possible problems in the mechanical and electrical operation of that instrument, the Thermal and Evolved-Gas Analyzer, or TEGA. Scientists are studying information provided by TEGA's analysis of the first Martian soil sample put in that instrument. The instrument has eight single-use oven cells; each cell can analyze one sample. When doors for a second TEGA oven were commanded open last week, the doors opened only partway. Later, the team determined that mechanical interference may prevent doors on that oven and three others from opening fully. The remaining three ovens are expected to have one door that opens fully and one that opens partially, as was the case with the first oven used. "The tests we have done in our test facility during the past few days show the robotic arm can deliver the simulated Martian soil through the opening with the doors in this configuration," said William Boynton of the University of Arizona, Tucson, lead scientist for TEGA. "We plan to save the cells where doors can open wider for accepting ice samples." Scientists believe the first soil sample delivered to TEGA was so clumpy that soil particles clogged a screen over the opening. Four days of vibration eventually succeeded at getting the soil through the screen. However, engineers believe the use of a motor to create the vibration may also have caused a short circuit in wiring near that oven. Concern about triggering other short circuits has prompted the Phoenix team to be cautious about the use of other TEGA cells. Subsequent soil samples for TEGA will be delivered with a different method than the first. The newer method will sprinkle soil into the instrument to make it easier for particles to get through the screens. The Phoenix mission is led by Peter Smith at the University of Arizona with project management at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif., and the development partnership at Lockheed Martin in Denver. International contributions are from the Canadian Space Agency; the University of Neuchatel, Switzerland; the universities of Copenhagen and Aarhus, Denmark; Max Planck Institute, Germany; and the Finnish Meteorological Institute. For more information about the mission, visit: http://www.nasa.gov/phoenix -end- From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Thu Jun 26 20:32:27 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:32:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Phoenix Returns Treasure Trove for Science Message-ID: <200806270032.RAA10157@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> FROM: Lori Stiles (520-360-0574; lstiles at u.arizona.edu) Phoenix Returns Treasure Trove for Science University of Arizona June 26, 2008 NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander performed its first wet chemistry on Martian soil flawlessly yesterday, returning a wealth of data that for Phoenix scientists was like winning the lottery. "We are awash in chemistry data," said Michael Hecht of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, lead scientist for the Microscopy, Electrochemistry and Conductivity Analyzer, or MECA, instrument on Phoenix. "We're trying to understand what is the chemistry of wet soil on Mars, what's dissolved in it, how acidic or alkaline it is. With the results we received from Phoenix yesterday, we could begin to tell what aspects of the soil might support life." "This is the first wet-chemical analysis ever done on Mars or any planet, other than Earth," Phoenix co-investigator Sam Kounaves of Tufts University, science lead for the wet chemistry laboratory investigation, said. About 80 percent of Phoenix's first, two-day wet chemistry experiment is now complete. Phoenix has three more wet-chemistry cells for use later in the mission. "This soil appears to be a close analog to surface soils found in the upper dry valleys in Antarctica," Kounaves said. "The alkalinity of the soil at this location is definitely striking. At this specific location, one inch into the surface layer, the soil is very basic, with a pH of between eight and nine. We also found a variety of components of salts that we haven't had time to analyze and identify yet, but that include magnesium, sodium, potassium and chloride." "This is more evidence for water because salts are there. We also found a reasonable number of nutrients, or chemicals needed by life as we know it," Kounaves said. "Over time, I've come to the conclusion that the amazing thing about Mars is not that it's an alien world, but that in many aspects, like mineralogy, it's very much like Earth." Another analytical Phoenix instrument, the Thermal and Evolved-Gas Analyzer (TEGA), has baked its first soil sample to 1,000 degrees Celsius (1,800 degrees Fahrenheit). Never before has a soil sample from another world been baked to such high heat. TEGA scientists have begun analyzing the gases released at a range of temperatures to identify the chemical make-up of soil and ice. Analysis is a complicated, weeks-long process. But "the scientific data coming out of the instrument has been just spectacular," said Phoenix co-investigator William Boynton of the University of Arizona, lead TEGA scientist. "At this point, we can say that the soil has clearly interacted with water in the past. We don't know whether that interaction occurred in this particular area in the northern polar region, or whether it might have happened elsewhere and blown up to this area as dust." Phoenix project scientist Leslie Tamppari tallied what Phoenix has accomplished during the first 30 Martian days of its mission, and outlined future plans. The Stereo Surface Imager has by now completed about 55 percent of its three-color, 360-degree panorama of the Phoenix landing site, Tamppari said. Phoenix has analyzed two samples in its optical microscope as well as first samples in both TEGA and the wet chemistry laboratory. Phoenix has been collecting information daily on clouds, dust, winds, temperatures and pressures in the atmosphere, as well as taken first nighttime atmospheric measurements. Lander cameras confirmed that white chunks exposed during trench digging were frozen water ice because they sublimated, or vaporized, over a few days. Phoenix robotic arm dug and sampled, and will continue to dig and sample, at the 'Snow White' trench in the center of a polygon in the polygonal terrain. "We believe this is the best place for creating a profile of the surface from the top down to the anticipated icy layer," Tamppari said. "This is the plan we wanted to do when we proposed the mission many years ago. We wanted a place just like this where we could sample the soil down to the possible ice layer." The Phoenix mission is led by Peter Smith of The University of Arizona with project management at JPL and development partnership at Lockheed Martin, located in Denver. International contributions come from the Canadian Space Agency; the University of Neuchatel, Switzerland; the universities of Copenhagen and Aarhus, Denmark; Max Planck Institute, Germany; and the Finnish Meteorological Institute. For more information on the Phoenix mission, link to http://www.nasa.gov/phoenix and http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu. MEDIA CONTACTS: Guy Webster, Jet Propulsion Laboratory (818-354-6278; guy.webster at jpl.nasa.gov) J.D. Harrington, NASA HQ (202-358-5241; j.d.harrington at nasa.gov) Sara Hammond, University of Arizona (520-626-1974; shammond at lpl.arizona.edu) From bristolia at yahoo.com Thu Jun 26 23:52:17 2008 From: bristolia at yahoo.com (Paul) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 20:52:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Using GIS for Meteorite Hunting and Study Message-ID: <91526.68618.qm@web36207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> McCartney Taylor wrote "I, too, am a GIS person. Since Land ownership & GIS has just been brought up, I have to take this one step farther and mention good & free GIS packages." I do not bother with ESRI as a GIS program even though where I work has a group license for it. It takes a long, long time to learn how to work. Instead, I use Global Mapper, which only costs about 300.00 dollars and is very easy to use and does what I need it to do. Also, their support people, not only return email and other inquiries about problems, they typically do it the same day that you contact them. More information can be found at: Global Mapper - http://www.globalmapper.com/ It does a spectacular job with Digital Elevation Models (DEMs) especially those made from LIDAR data. Some examples of DEMs made from the LIDAR data can be seen in "The Scotlandville, Denham Springs, and Baton Rouge Faults - A Map Guide for Real Estate Buyers, Sellers, and Developers in the Greater Baton Rouge Area" at http://www.lgs.lsu.edu/deploy/uploads/BRFaultsGuide.pdf Yours, Paul H. From pshugar at clearwire.net Fri Jun 27 00:08:25 2008 From: pshugar at clearwire.net (Pete Shugar) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 23:08:25 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Id'ing Message-ID: <000a01c8d80b$7465d610$0201a8c0@laptop> Here is a very good link to help the newbie to ID a meteorite. http://meteorites.pdx.edu/meteoriteid.htm Pete From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Fri Jun 27 07:01:57 2008 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 04:01:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Is this a meteorite In-Reply-To: <692434.6025.qm@web32501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <557894.46318.qm@web55202.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Before anyone falls on their sword over this specimen, note the gas channel/tube in the middle-- scraggy as it is, even Na tan isn't worm eaten! It was my observation that, while many folks submitted lots of candidates which I enjoyed looking over, there were many subtle distinctions and outright differences that didn't match. The specimen "resembled" most of them but on closer viewing didn't "match" any of them. The most common feature was metallic luster but twasn't the same metallic luster on any of the photos. Not trying to be pedantic but many times it is better to look for the differences in all the features(e.g. fracture, texture, crystal faces, etc.) It the specimens match there will be none. I don't have a photo of metallic silicon handy but it too has subtle surface differences: it has a convex, undulating, fracture vs the flat banded fractures this specimen shows. Up to this point, the gas channel most certainly points to a smelting product(aka slag or bad run) and, I would be comfortable saying that I know what it is not. The great part about all the photo sharing is we now have many more materials to compare when we are trying to identify a given specimen. Plus I wouldn't have totally blown that mesosiderite photo a few months back had I looked closer. Thanks Bunches, Elton Elton --- On Thu, 6/26/08, Ruben Garcia wrote: > What bad news? You didn't think it looked like this > nantan meteorite? http://www.mr-meteorite.com/nantan.htm > To me this is the only picture that looked like yours... > what did I miss? > --- On Thu, 6/26/08, David & Kitt Deyarmin > wrote: > > I will relay the bad news to my friend From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Fri Jun 27 08:40:56 2008 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 08:40:56 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 27, 2008 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/June_27_2008.html ___________________ **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) From dave at fallingrocks.com Fri Jun 27 12:01:39 2008 From: dave at fallingrocks.com (Dave Gheesling) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 12:01:39 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Is this a meteorite In-Reply-To: <692434.6025.qm@web32501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <011201c8d7d8$a9232660$832ab841@David> <692434.6025.qm@web32501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Ruben & All, I'd agree with Sean. That piece was far too sharp and angular to be a Nantan crystal...have some examples of my own and I don't think it looks like yours either, Ruben. Just 2 gm worth... Dave -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Ruben Garcia Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 6:15 PM To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com; David & Kitt Deyarmin Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Is this a meteorite What bad news? You didn't think it looked like this nantan meteorite? http://www.mr-meteorite.com/nantan.htm To me this is the only picture that looked like yours... what did I miss? Ruben Garcia Phoenix, Arizona http://www.mr-meteorite.com http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=meteorfright&p=v --- On Thu, 6/26/08, David & Kitt Deyarmin wrote: > From: David & Kitt Deyarmin > Subject: [meteorite-list] Is this a meteorite > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Thursday, June 26, 2008, 3:04 PM Thanks for all the replies. > > > I will relay the bad news to my friend > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From paseclipse at yahoo.com Fri Jun 27 12:09:47 2008 From: paseclipse at yahoo.com (Del Waterbury) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 09:09:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Is this a meteorite In-Reply-To: <557894.46318.qm@web55202.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <622727.79271.qm@web51304.mail.re2.yahoo.com> If I was going to take a guess of what was in that picture I would say it looks like Galena. Not sure if this one has been suggested yet, but that what it looks like to me. Del --- On Fri, 6/27/08, Mr EMan wrote: > From: Mr EMan > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Is this a meteorite > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, "David & Kitt Deyarmin" , meteoritemall at yahoo.com > Date: Friday, June 27, 2008, 4:01 AM > Before anyone falls on their sword over this specimen, note > the gas channel/tube in the middle-- scraggy as it is, even > Na tan isn't worm eaten! > > It was my observation that, while many folks submitted lots > of candidates which I enjoyed looking over, there were many > subtle distinctions and outright differences that > didn't match. The specimen "resembled" most > of them but on closer viewing didn't "match" > any of them. The most common feature was metallic luster > but twasn't the same metallic luster on any of the > photos. > > Not trying to be pedantic but many times it is better to > look for the differences in all the features(e.g. fracture, > texture, crystal faces, etc.) It the specimens match there > will be none. > > I don't have a photo of metallic silicon handy but it > too has subtle surface differences: it has a convex, > undulating, fracture vs the flat banded fractures this > specimen shows. > > Up to this point, the gas channel most certainly points to > a smelting product(aka slag or bad run) and, I would be > comfortable saying that I know what it is not. The great > part about all the photo sharing is we now have many more > materials to compare when we are trying to identify a given > specimen. Plus I wouldn't have totally blown that > mesosiderite photo a few months back had I looked closer. > > Thanks Bunches, > Elton > > Elton > > > --- On Thu, 6/26/08, Ruben Garcia > wrote: > > > What bad news? You didn't think it looked like > this > > nantan meteorite? > http://www.mr-meteorite.com/nantan.htm > > To me this is the only picture that looked like > yours... > > what did I miss? > > > --- On Thu, 6/26/08, David & Kitt Deyarmin > > wrote: > > > I will relay the bad news to my friend > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Fri Jun 27 12:17:25 2008 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 09:17:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] More Impressions of Ensisheim Meteorite Show In-Reply-To: <871525.35367.qm@web26304.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <857285.10501.qm@web33107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Wonderful photos Hanno; although the one with you and I makes me sick just looking at it! I drank more on that night than in the last two years combined! What happens in France is supposed to stay in France. I am in St Marie; show is good; kind of warm, not many meteorites though. This is the first I have checked email in days. Michael Farmer --- On Wed, 6/25/08, Mirko Graul wrote: > From: Mirko Graul > Subject: [meteorite-list] More Impressions of Ensisheim Meteorite Show > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Wednesday, June 25, 2008, 8:21 AM > Hello List and friends from Meteorites, > > back from France i have list on my homepage arround 80 > photos from the > Ensisheim Meteorite Show. > Enjoy the view of the many photos. > The show was very nice and the meetings with all friends > was very good! > > Here the links to the 8 galleries: > > http://www.meteorite-mirko.de/0334af993b0042c09/0334af9ac608d3b02/index.html > > http://www.meteorite-mirko.de/0334af993b0042c09/0334af9ac6098861f/index.html > > http://www.meteorite-mirko.de/0334af993b0042c09/0334af9ac60989d2e/index.html > > http://www.meteorite-mirko.de/0334af993b0042c09/0334af9ac6098b03d/index.html > > http://www.meteorite-mirko.de/0334af993b0042c09/0334af9ac6098c84c/index.html > > http://www.meteorite-mirko.de/0334af993b0042c09/0334af9ac713bd454/index.html > > http://www.meteorite-mirko.de/0334af993b0042c09/0334af9ac713c2a72/index.html > > http://www.meteorite-mirko.de/0334af993b0042c09/0334af9ac808e921e/index.html > > > Enjoy the view of the many photos. > > Many greetings Mirko > > > Mirko Graul Meteorite > Quittenring.4 > 16321 Bernau > GERMANY > > Phone: 0049-1724105015 > E-Mail: m_graul at yahoo.de > > IMCA-Member: 2113 > (International Meteorite Collectors Association) > > Web: www.meteorite-mirko.de > > > > __________________________________________________________ > Gesendet von Yahoo! Mail. > Dem pfiffigeren Posteingang. > http://de.overview.mail.yahoo.com > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From m_graul at yahoo.de Fri Jun 27 12:28:42 2008 From: m_graul at yahoo.de (Mirko Graul) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 16:28:42 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [meteorite-list] More Impressions of Ensisheim Meteorite Show In-Reply-To: <857285.10501.qm@web33107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <888360.54436.qm@web26301.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Mike, you realize you are not yet sober! I am not Hanno. hihihi ... Cheers Mirko Mirko Graul Meteorite Quittenring.4 16321 Bernau GERMANY Phone: 0049-1724105015 E-Mail: m_graul at yahoo.de IMCA-Member: 2113 (International Meteorite Collectors Association) Web: www.meteorite-mirko.de --- Michael Farmer schrieb am Fr, 27.6.2008: > Von: Michael Farmer > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] More Impressions of Ensisheim Meteorite Show > An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, m_graul at yahoo.de > Datum: Freitag, 27. Juni 2008, 18:17 > Wonderful photos Hanno; although the one with you and I > makes me sick just looking at it! I drank more on that > night than in the last two years combined! What happens in > France is supposed to stay in France. > I am in St Marie; show is good; kind of warm, not many > meteorites though. This is the first I have checked email > in days. > Michael Farmer > > > > --- On Wed, 6/25/08, Mirko Graul > wrote: > > > From: Mirko Graul > > Subject: [meteorite-list] More Impressions of > Ensisheim Meteorite Show > > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > Date: Wednesday, June 25, 2008, 8:21 AM > > Hello List and friends from Meteorites, > > > > back from France i have list on my homepage arround 80 > > photos from the > > Ensisheim Meteorite Show. > > Enjoy the view of the many photos. > > The show was very nice and the meetings with all > friends > > was very good! > > > > Here the links to the 8 galleries: > > > > > http://www.meteorite-mirko.de/0334af993b0042c09/0334af9ac608d3b02/index.html > > > > > http://www.meteorite-mirko.de/0334af993b0042c09/0334af9ac6098861f/index.html > > > > > http://www.meteorite-mirko.de/0334af993b0042c09/0334af9ac60989d2e/index.html > > > > > http://www.meteorite-mirko.de/0334af993b0042c09/0334af9ac6098b03d/index.html > > > > > http://www.meteorite-mirko.de/0334af993b0042c09/0334af9ac6098c84c/index.html > > > > > http://www.meteorite-mirko.de/0334af993b0042c09/0334af9ac713bd454/index.html > > > > > http://www.meteorite-mirko.de/0334af993b0042c09/0334af9ac713c2a72/index.html > > > > > http://www.meteorite-mirko.de/0334af993b0042c09/0334af9ac808e921e/index.html > > > > > > Enjoy the view of the many photos. > > > > Many greetings Mirko > > > > > > Mirko Graul Meteorite > > Quittenring.4 > > 16321 Bernau > > GERMANY > > > > Phone: 0049-1724105015 > > E-Mail: m_graul at yahoo.de > > > > IMCA-Member: 2113 > > (International Meteorite Collectors Association) > > > > Web: www.meteorite-mirko.de > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Gesendet von Yahoo! Mail. > > Dem pfiffigeren Posteingang. > > http://de.overview.mail.yahoo.com > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __________________________________________________________ Gesendet von Yahoo! Mail. Dem pfiffigeren Posteingang. http://de.overview.mail.yahoo.com From meteoritemall at yahoo.com Fri Jun 27 13:25:19 2008 From: meteoritemall at yahoo.com (Ruben Garcia) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 10:25:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Is this a meteorite In-Reply-To: <622727.79271.qm@web51304.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <964424.57355.qm@web32504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Just send me his address and I'll send him a real meteorite found by the world famous Mr-Meteorite - I happen to know him personally! Ruben Garcia Phoenix, Arizona http://www.mr-meteorite.com http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=meteorfright&p=v From pshugar at clearwire.net Fri Jun 27 13:56:16 2008 From: pshugar at clearwire.net (Pete Shugar) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 12:56:16 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Is this a meteorite References: <622727.79271.qm@web51304.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000901c8d87f$1a813260$0201a8c0@laptop> I knew I'd seen that somewhere!!! I pulled out my cat's whisker detector and sure enough that's just what it looked like. Pete, IMCA 1773, KL7GNW ----- Original Message ----- From: "Del Waterbury" To: ; "David & Kitt Deyarmin" ; ; "Mr EMan" Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 11:09 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Is this a meteorite > If I was going to take a guess of what was in that picture I would say it > looks like Galena. Not sure if this one has been suggested yet, but that > what it looks like to me. > > Del > > > --- On Fri, 6/27/08, Mr EMan wrote: > >> From: Mr EMan >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Is this a meteorite >> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, "David & Kitt Deyarmin" >> , meteoritemall at yahoo.com >> Date: Friday, June 27, 2008, 4:01 AM >> Before anyone falls on their sword over this specimen, note >> the gas channel/tube in the middle-- scraggy as it is, even >> Na tan isn't worm eaten! >> >> It was my observation that, while many folks submitted lots >> of candidates which I enjoyed looking over, there were many >> subtle distinctions and outright differences that >> didn't match. The specimen "resembled" most >> of them but on closer viewing didn't "match" >> any of them. The most common feature was metallic luster >> but twasn't the same metallic luster on any of the >> photos. >> >> Not trying to be pedantic but many times it is better to >> look for the differences in all the features(e.g. fracture, >> texture, crystal faces, etc.) It the specimens match there >> will be none. >> >> I don't have a photo of metallic silicon handy but it >> too has subtle surface differences: it has a convex, >> undulating, fracture vs the flat banded fractures this >> specimen shows. >> >> Up to this point, the gas channel most certainly points to >> a smelting product(aka slag or bad run) and, I would be >> comfortable saying that I know what it is not. The great >> part about all the photo sharing is we now have many more >> materials to compare when we are trying to identify a given >> specimen. Plus I wouldn't have totally blown that >> mesosiderite photo a few months back had I looked closer. >> >> Thanks Bunches, >> Elton >> >> Elton >> >> >> --- On Thu, 6/26/08, Ruben Garcia >> wrote: >> >> > What bad news? You didn't think it looked like >> this >> > nantan meteorite? >> http://www.mr-meteorite.com/nantan.htm >> > To me this is the only picture that looked like >> yours... >> > what did I miss? >> >> > --- On Thu, 6/26/08, David & Kitt Deyarmin >> > wrote: >> > > I will relay the bad news to my friend >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From m_graul at yahoo.de Fri Jun 27 16:10:54 2008 From: m_graul at yahoo.de (Mirko Graul) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 20:10:54 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: sale page update Message-ID: <530154.18735.qm@web26308.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Hello List and friends of ironmeteorites, i have my sales page updated. Thank you for view. http://www.meteorite-mirko.de/0334af99350fc8101/index.php Many greetings Mirko Mirko Graul Meteorite Quittenring.4 16321 Bernau GERMANY Phone: 0049-1724105015 E-Mail: m_graul at yahoo.de IMCA-Member: 2113 (International Meteorite Collectors Association) Web: www.meteorite-mirko.de __________________________________________________________ Gesendet von Yahoo! Mail. Dem pfiffigeren Posteingang. http://de.overview.mail.yahoo.com From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Fri Jun 27 16:37:35 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 13:37:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] MRO HiRISE Images - June 25, 2008 Message-ID: <200806272037.NAA07789@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> MARS RECONNAISSANCE ORBITER HIRISE IMAGES June 25, 2008 o Polygons, Crater Layers, and Defrosting Dunes http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_008426_2595 o Layers at Margin of Hellas Impact Basin http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_008387_1510 o Indicators of Recent Winds on Mars http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_007153_2505 o Volcanic and Clay Materials Near Nili Fossae http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_007055_2015 o A Crater Superposed on Chaotic Terrain Near the Head of a Dao Vallis Branch http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_005881_1465 All of the HiRISE images are archived here: http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ Information about the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter is online at http://www.nasa.gov/mro. The mission is managed by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, a division of the California Institute of Technology, for the NASA Science Mission Directorate, Washington, D.C. Lockheed Martin Space Systems, of Denver, is the prime contractor and built the spacecraft. HiRISE is operated by the University of Arizona. Ball Aerospace and Technologies Corp., of Boulder, Colo., built the HiRISE instrument. From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Fri Jun 27 16:41:11 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 13:41:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars Exploration Rover Update - June 6-12, 2008 Message-ID: <200806272041.NAA09085@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/mission/status.html SPIRIT UPDATE: New Tricks for an Old Rover - sol 1574-1579, June 6-12, 2008: To conserve energy and protect one of the on-board spectrometers, spacecraft operators have established the first major change to planning for the Mars Exploration Rover mission since the end of the primary mission, which lasted for 90 days in early 2004. Spirit's scientists have declared that their highest priority for the winter is preserving the miniature thermal emission spectrometer, an instrument that identifies minerals in rocks from a distance. To do this, the rover heats the instrument overnight and into the morning of every sol. These heaters have been running longer as winter temperatures have dropped and are now averaging about 55 watt-hours per sol. Heating for Spirit's batteries has increased as well and is now averaging 29 watt-hours per sol. Together, the two heaters account for 84 watt-hours or about 37 percent of Spirit's total energy usage. Everything else, including on-board computers and memories, radios, cameras, sensors and actuators, gets by on about 140 watt-hours -- enough energy to run a microwave oven for a scant 7 minutes. In response, rover operators have further reduced Spirit's activity levels. The rover now transmits data to Odyssey to be relayed to Earth only every fourth sol. Instead of spending 20 minutes each sol using the rover's high-gain antenna to listen for new instructions from Earth, Spirit spends five minutes listening for instructions using the low-gain antenna on all but two sols per week. Rover operators create new activity plans once a week, on Fridays, that cover seven sols at a time. Because Spirit isn't engaged in activities that require rover operators to have new images or other data for planning, the rover does not have to relay data to Odyssey just before a planning day. Despite changes to multiple procedures and software tools, the transition has been remarkably smooth. For the time being, Spirit is basically just hanging out, charging the batteries. Recent Events Initially, the uplink team deleted virtually all science activities except for tau measurements of atmospheric dust. They then limited transmission of rover data to NASA's Odyssey orbiter, which consumes about 30 watt-hours, to every other sol. Still, the batteries continued to use more energy than they could replenish. Prior to this change, Spirit received new plans three times a week and listened for new instructions for 20 minutes every sol. The 20-minute, high-gain-antenna communication window was costing the rover a lot of unnecessary awake time. On the other hand, engineers on Earth needed Spirit to be awake for at least 15 minutes every sol. By changing some of the unneeded 20-minute communication windows to shorter, five-minute, low-gain-antenna communication windows, and by having the windows overlap with the required awake time, Spirit's operators have shortened the overall awake time from 39 minutes to 16 minutes and saved another 15 watt-hours per sol. Engineers have also gotten more strategic about how they communicate with Spirit. They send a new activity plan to Spirit every week (after the Friday planning session). Because Odyssey downlinks happen only every fourth sol, they can't guarantee they'll have a communication from Odyssey showing whether an uplink actually made it to the rover. So they send the same activity plan a second time. If the first uplink is successful, software on the rover automatically changes the second, high-gain communication window to a five-minute, low-gain window, saving 15 watt-hours. When this occurs, the second uplink fails and flight software generates a bunch of warnings, known as event reports. The warnings tell engineers that the plan is on board. If the first uplink fails, the instructions to change the second uplink window don't take place. Why do engineers do the planning on Fridays? A new schedule of communication opportunities, called a "strategic load," goes into effect every other Friday. Rover operators plan activities on Friday so they can include the strategic load in the uplink. The new strategy is working. Battery states of charge are up about two amp-hours (an amp-hour is a measure of electrical current flowing for one hour) above the rather scary levels of two weeks ago and other indicators of battery health are similarly improving. Spirit now has some margin of protection against further increases in heating power or unpleasant changes in the Martian environment. One concern is the possibility that thin, water-ice clouds could form overhead during the Martian winter. Such clouds are nearly invisible without image enhancement but they're thick enough to noticeably lower solar array energy. Fortunately, there's been no evidence of water-ice clouds so far. Turning the Corner The Martian winter solstice will be on June 25, 2008 (sol 1591). During the winter solstice, the Sun is as low in the sky as it ever gets. From there, it will rise higher each sol until the summer solstice in May 2009. For Spirit, solar power levels are expected to increase in a few weeks. Unlike Earth, where the coldest temperatures arrive 4-6 weeks after the solstice, Martian temperatures will begin to rise again almost immediately -- but slowly, very, very slowly. With little dust overhead, Spirit is seeing very little additional dust settling out on the rover's solar arrays. The dust factor, a measure of the proportion of sunlight penetrating the coating of dust on the solar arrays, has remained almost unchanged at 0.349 (meaning that 34.9 percent of the sunlight, direct and scattered, that reaches the arrays penetrates the dust layer to generate electricity). Energy has been steady, averaging about 226 watt-hours each Martian day, or sol, and varying by only a couple of watt-hours (100 watt-hours is the amount of energy needed to light a 100-watt bulb for one hour). This is due in large part to a clear and stable atmosphere. Tau, a measure of dust in the atmosphere, has ranged from 0.178 to 0.207 and averaged 0.193. As a result, between 81 percent and 84 percent of the sunlight reaching Mars continues down through the atmosphere to Spirit's solar array. (The remaining 16 percent to 19 percent is either scattered or absorbed by dust particles in the atmosphere. The portion of sunlight that's scattered also contributes to Spirit's solar array energy.) A Tau this low means the skies above Spirit are remarkably clear. Not only that, Tau has decreased by an average of about 0.01 per week over the last month. (Though scattering and absorption are different and not exactly comparable, a clear mountain day on Earth has a Tau of 0.1-0.2.) Spirit is healthy and all subsystems are performing as expected as of the Odyssey downlink on Sol 1578 (June 11, 2008). The next planned Odyssey downlink will be on Sol 1582 (June 15, 2008). What Do You Say When You Call Home? One of the key ways engineers monitor Spirit is through "event records." These are messages generated by the flight software -- basically, the rover's operating system -- telling Earth how Spirit is doing and why. Most modern operating systems store such information in log files; Spirit transmits it over long distances. Spirit's event records come in five "flavors." Activity event records note that some event has occurred. Command event records log the issuance and success or failure of commands. Warning event records indicate unexpected events. Fault event records indicate more serious problems the flight software must address, usually by disabling further use of some device or capability. Fatal event records indicate problems so severe they invoke the fault protection features of the operating system. At that point, the whole rover is "disabled" and goes into so-called "safe" mode by shutting down all activities while waiting for instructions from home. Whether such warnings indicate a problem depends on the context. For example, every time a motor stalls (stops turning while still powered), Spirit's flight software generates a warning event record. Sometimes, the stall is intentional. For example, engineers calibrate the position of an actuator by slowly driving it into a mechanical "hardstop" at a known position. When the hardstop is reached, the motor stalls and issues a warning event record. If one of the motors stalls unexpectedly, that same event record could indicate a problem. It's like easing into a parking space until your wheels hit the parking bumper. The resulting jolt says you are correctly parked. On the other hand, a similar jolt could mean a fender bender, depending on the context. Spirit's operators are sending two copies of new command sequences and then sending it twice again on a backup uplink one or two sols later. Data relays are so sparse, they don't always know if the first attempt succeeded and want to minimize the risk of not getting a new sequence on board. Typically, the first attempt is successful and the second is rejected. Flight software generates event records telling engineers that the rover received the files correctly and copied them into the primary and secondary file systems. The software then rejects the same files later because their names conflict with existing files of the same name. Rover operators don't actually read all the event reports in text form. An identification number encodes the "flavor" of the event report and a time tag called SCLK for "spacecraft clock" translates the time into readable format. Ground software decodes these and a few other parameters and converts them into readable words. Sol-by-sol summary Spirit completed the following activities: Sol 1574 (June 6, 2008): Spirit recharged the batteries, listened to instructions from Earth for five minutes using the low-gain antenna, measured atmospheric opacity caused by dust using the panoramic camera, and relayed data to the Odyssey orbiter as it passed overhead. Sol 1575: Spirit recharged the batteries and listened to instructions from Earth for 20 minutes using the high-gain antenna. Sol 1576: Spirit recharged the batteries, listened to instructions from Earth for five minutes using the low-gain antenna, and measured atmospheric opacity caused by dust using the panoramic camera. Sol 1577: Spirit recharged the batteries and listened to instructions from Earth for five minutes using the low-gain antenna. Sol 1578: Spirit recharged the batteries, listened to instructions from Earth for five minutes using the low-gain antenna, measured atmospheric opacity caused by dust using the panoramic camera, and relayed data to Odyssey during the overhead pass of the orbiter. Sol 1579 (June 12, 2008): Spirit recharged the batteries and listened to instructions from Earth for five minutes using the low-gain antenna. Odometry: As of sol 1578 (June 11, 2008), Spirit's total odometry remained at 7,528.0 meters (4.7 miles). From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Fri Jun 27 16:46:37 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 13:46:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars Odyssey THEMIS Images: June 16-27, 2008 Message-ID: <200806272046.NAA10065@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> MARS ODYSSEY THEMIS IMAGES June 16-27, 2008 o Clouds (Released 16 June 2008) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20080616a o Channel and Graben (Released 17 June 2008) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20080617a o Collapse (Released 18 June 2008) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20080618a o Lava Channel (Released 19 June 2008) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20080619a o Polar Dunes (Released 20 June 2008) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20080620a o Polar Dunes (Released 23 June 2008) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20080623a o Mix of Textures (Released 24 June 2008) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20080624a o Lyot Crater Dunes (Released 25 June 2008) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20080625a o Olympus Mons (Released 26 June 2008) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20080626a o Cerulli Channels (Released 27 June 2008) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20080627a All of the THEMIS images are archived here: http://themis.asu.edu/latest.html NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory manages the 2001 Mars Odyssey mission for NASA's Office of Space Science, Washington, D.C. The Thermal Emission Imaging System (THEMIS) was developed by Arizona State University, Tempe, in co.oration with Raytheon Santa Barbara Remote Sensing. The THEMIS investigation is led by Dr. Philip Christensen at Arizona State University. Lockheed Martin Astronautics, Denver, is the prime contractor for the Odyssey project, and developed and built the orbiter. Mission operations are conducted jointly from Lockheed Martin and from JPL, a division of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena. From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Fri Jun 27 17:08:44 2008 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 16:08:44 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars Exploration Rover Update - June 6-12, 2008 References: <200806272041.NAA09085@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <04d201c8d899$fc098f60$2346e146@ATARIENGINE> Hi, All, > Everything else, including on-board computers and memories, radios, > cameras, sensors and actuators, gets by on about 140 watt-hours -- > enough energy to run a microwave oven for a scant 7 minutes. Obviously, the key to long-term survival is to NOT use the microwave on the Rover any more than necessary! > For the time being, Spirit is basically just hanging out, charging the > batteries. Those are the good times... It's hard not to anthropomorphize. Just go see Wall-E. Sterling --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Baalke" To: "Meteorite Mailing List" Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 3:41 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars Exploration Rover Update - June 6-12, 2008 http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/mission/status.html SPIRIT UPDATE: New Tricks for an Old Rover - sol 1574-1579, June 6-12, 2008: To conserve energy and protect one of the on-board spectrometers, spacecraft operators have established the first major change to planning for the Mars Exploration Rover mission since the end of the primary mission, which lasted for 90 days in early 2004. Spirit's scientists have declared that their highest priority for the winter is preserving the miniature thermal emission spectrometer, an instrument that identifies minerals in rocks from a distance. To do this, the rover heats the instrument overnight and into the morning of every sol. These heaters have been running longer as winter temperatures have dropped and are now averaging about 55 watt-hours per sol. Heating for Spirit's batteries has increased as well and is now averaging 29 watt-hours per sol. Together, the two heaters account for 84 watt-hours or about 37 percent of Spirit's total energy usage. Everything else, including on-board computers and memories, radios, cameras, sensors and actuators, gets by on about 140 watt-hours -- enough energy to run a microwave oven for a scant 7 minutes. In response, rover operators have further reduced Spirit's activity levels. The rover now transmits data to Odyssey to be relayed to Earth only every fourth sol. Instead of spending 20 minutes each sol using the rover's high-gain antenna to listen for new instructions from Earth, Spirit spends five minutes listening for instructions using the low-gain antenna on all but two sols per week. Rover operators create new activity plans once a week, on Fridays, that cover seven sols at a time. Because Spirit isn't engaged in activities that require rover operators to have new images or other data for planning, the rover does not have to relay data to Odyssey just before a planning day. Despite changes to multiple procedures and software tools, the transition has been remarkably smooth. For the time being, Spirit is basically just hanging out, charging the batteries. Recent Events Initially, the uplink team deleted virtually all science activities except for tau measurements of atmospheric dust. They then limited transmission of rover data to NASA's Odyssey orbiter, which consumes about 30 watt-hours, to every other sol. Still, the batteries continued to use more energy than they could replenish. Prior to this change, Spirit received new plans three times a week and listened for new instructions for 20 minutes every sol. The 20-minute, high-gain-antenna communication window was costing the rover a lot of unnecessary awake time. On the other hand, engineers on Earth needed Spirit to be awake for at least 15 minutes every sol. By changing some of the unneeded 20-minute communication windows to shorter, five-minute, low-gain-antenna communication windows, and by having the windows overlap with the required awake time, Spirit's operators have shortened the overall awake time from 39 minutes to 16 minutes and saved another 15 watt-hours per sol. Engineers have also gotten more strategic about how they communicate with Spirit. They send a new activity plan to Spirit every week (after the Friday planning session). Because Odyssey downlinks happen only every fourth sol, they can't guarantee they'll have a communication from Odyssey showing whether an uplink actually made it to the rover. So they send the same activity plan a second time. If the first uplink is successful, software on the rover automatically changes the second, high-gain communication window to a five-minute, low-gain window, saving 15 watt-hours. When this occurs, the second uplink fails and flight software generates a bunch of warnings, known as event reports. The warnings tell engineers that the plan is on board. If the first uplink fails, the instructions to change the second uplink window don't take place. Why do engineers do the planning on Fridays? A new schedule of communication opportunities, called a "strategic load," goes into effect every other Friday. Rover operators plan activities on Friday so they can include the strategic load in the uplink. The new strategy is working. Battery states of charge are up about two amp-hours (an amp-hour is a measure of electrical current flowing for one hour) above the rather scary levels of two weeks ago and other indicators of battery health are similarly improving. Spirit now has some margin of protection against further increases in heating power or unpleasant changes in the Martian environment. One concern is the possibility that thin, water-ice clouds could form overhead during the Martian winter. Such clouds are nearly invisible without image enhancement but they're thick enough to noticeably lower solar array energy. Fortunately, there's been no evidence of water-ice clouds so far. Turning the Corner The Martian winter solstice will be on June 25, 2008 (sol 1591). During the winter solstice, the Sun is as low in the sky as it ever gets. From there, it will rise higher each sol until the summer solstice in May 2009. For Spirit, solar power levels are expected to increase in a few weeks. Unlike Earth, where the coldest temperatures arrive 4-6 weeks after the solstice, Martian temperatures will begin to rise again almost immediately -- but slowly, very, very slowly. With little dust overhead, Spirit is seeing very little additional dust settling out on the rover's solar arrays. The dust factor, a measure of the proportion of sunlight penetrating the coating of dust on the solar arrays, has remained almost unchanged at 0.349 (meaning that 34.9 percent of the sunlight, direct and scattered, that reaches the arrays penetrates the dust layer to generate electricity). Energy has been steady, averaging about 226 watt-hours each Martian day, or sol, and varying by only a couple of watt-hours (100 watt-hours is the amount of energy needed to light a 100-watt bulb for one hour). This is due in large part to a clear and stable atmosphere. Tau, a measure of dust in the atmosphere, has ranged from 0.178 to 0.207 and averaged 0.193. As a result, between 81 percent and 84 percent of the sunlight reaching Mars continues down through the atmosphere to Spirit's solar array. (The remaining 16 percent to 19 percent is either scattered or absorbed by dust particles in the atmosphere. The portion of sunlight that's scattered also contributes to Spirit's solar array energy.) A Tau this low means the skies above Spirit are remarkably clear. Not only that, Tau has decreased by an average of about 0.01 per week over the last month. (Though scattering and absorption are different and not exactly comparable, a clear mountain day on Earth has a Tau of 0.1-0.2.) Spirit is healthy and all subsystems are performing as expected as of the Odyssey downlink on Sol 1578 (June 11, 2008). The next planned Odyssey downlink will be on Sol 1582 (June 15, 2008). What Do You Say When You Call Home? One of the key ways engineers monitor Spirit is through "event records." These are messages generated by the flight software -- basically, the rover's operating system -- telling Earth how Spirit is doing and why. Most modern operating systems store such information in log files; Spirit transmits it over long distances. Spirit's event records come in five "flavors." Activity event records note that some event has occurred. Command event records log the issuance and success or failure of commands. Warning event records indicate unexpected events. Fault event records indicate more serious problems the flight software must address, usually by disabling further use of some device or capability. Fatal event records indicate problems so severe they invoke the fault protection features of the operating system. At that point, the whole rover is "disabled" and goes into so-called "safe" mode by shutting down all activities while waiting for instructions from home. Whether such warnings indicate a problem depends on the context. For example, every time a motor stalls (stops turning while still powered), Spirit's flight software generates a warning event record. Sometimes, the stall is intentional. For example, engineers calibrate the position of an actuator by slowly driving it into a mechanical "hardstop" at a known position. When the hardstop is reached, the motor stalls and issues a warning event record. If one of the motors stalls unexpectedly, that same event record could indicate a problem. It's like easing into a parking space until your wheels hit the parking bumper. The resulting jolt says you are correctly parked. On the other hand, a similar jolt could mean a fender bender, depending on the context. Spirit's operators are sending two copies of new command sequences and then sending it twice again on a backup uplink one or two sols later. Data relays are so sparse, they don't always know if the first attempt succeeded and want to minimize the risk of not getting a new sequence on board. Typically, the first attempt is successful and the second is rejected. Flight software generates event records telling engineers that the rover received the files correctly and copied them into the primary and secondary file systems. The software then rejects the same files later because their names conflict with existing files of the same name. Rover operators don't actually read all the event reports in text form. An identification number encodes the "flavor" of the event report and a time tag called SCLK for "spacecraft clock" translates the time into readable format. Ground software decodes these and a few other parameters and converts them into readable words. Sol-by-sol summary Spirit completed the following activities: Sol 1574 (June 6, 2008): Spirit recharged the batteries, listened to instructions from Earth for five minutes using the low-gain antenna, measured atmospheric opacity caused by dust using the panoramic camera, and relayed data to the Odyssey orbiter as it passed overhead. Sol 1575: Spirit recharged the batteries and listened to instructions from Earth for 20 minutes using the high-gain antenna. Sol 1576: Spirit recharged the batteries, listened to instructions from Earth for five minutes using the low-gain antenna, and measured atmospheric opacity caused by dust using the panoramic camera. Sol 1577: Spirit recharged the batteries and listened to instructions from Earth for five minutes using the low-gain antenna. Sol 1578: Spirit recharged the batteries, listened to instructions from Earth for five minutes using the low-gain antenna, measured atmospheric opacity caused by dust using the panoramic camera, and relayed data to Odyssey during the overhead pass of the orbiter. Sol 1579 (June 12, 2008): Spirit recharged the batteries and listened to instructions from Earth for five minutes using the low-gain antenna. Odometry: As of sol 1578 (June 11, 2008), Spirit's total odometry remained at 7,528.0 meters (4.7 miles). ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Fri Jun 27 19:12:13 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 16:12:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Chemical Clues Point to Dust Origin for Earth-like Planets (Semarkona Meteorite) Message-ID: <200806272312.QAA16255@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> Carnegie Institution Contact: Conel Alexander, 202-478-8478 Monday, June 23, 2008 Chemical clues point to dusty origin for Earth-like planets Washington, D.C. -- Higher than expected levels of sodium found in a 4.6 billion-year-old meteorite suggest that the dust clouds from which the building blocks of the Earth and neighboring planets formed were much denser than previously supposed. The study, by scientists from the Carnegie Institution, American Museum of Natural History, and U.S. Geological Survey, is published in the June 20 issue of Science. Conel Alexander and Fred Ciesla of the Carnegie Institution's Department of Terrestrial Magnetism, with colleagues Jeffrey Grossman of the U.S. Geological Survey and Denton Ebel of the American Museum of Natural History, analyzed the sodium content of grains in objects called "chondrules" from the Semarkona meteorite, which fell in India in 1940. The Semarkona meteorite, like all other chondrule-bearing meteorites (known as chondrites), dates from the early stages of the solar system's formation. Unlike most others, however, its constituents have been relatively unaltered by heat and chemical changes over the more than four billion years since its origin, making it an important window into the early history of the solar system. Chondrules, which make up 20 to 80% of the volume of chondrites, are round, roughly millimeter-sized objects made of glass and crystals. Chondrules are thought to have formed by flash heating of dust in the primordial solar system. From the types of minerals found in chondrules, scientists have determined that they formed at temperatures of up to nearly 2,000 C (3600 F). The source of this high heat, which would have affected vast areas of dust, is unknown. The heat would also be expected to have boiled off many of the volatile chemical elements, such as sodium, leaving the chondrules depleted in these elements. But the chemical analyses by the research team found that the Semarkona chondrules had surprisingly high sodium abundances when they formed, indicating that sodium was not driven off. Rather, it remained at nearly constant levels during chondrule formation. "Chondrules formed as molten droplets produced by what was probably one of the most energetic processes that operated in the early solar system," says Alexander. "You would expect all the sodium to evaporate and be lost from the chondrules under such conditions. Instead, the sodium was retained. The chondrules stayed as effectively closed systems throughout the heating and melting." The researchers determined that in order for the molten droplets that formed the chondrules to remain as closed systems and retain constant levels of sodium, the initial dust cloud must have been far denser than previously supposed. "If the droplets were crowded close enough together, then the sodium vapor in the spaces in between would reach a saturation point," says Alexander, "and that would prevent further evaporation." To achieve this condition, the density of dust in the chondrule-forming regions of the early solar system must have been at least about 10 grams per cubic meter, and possibly much more. This is at least 100 times the densities considered by previous models of chondrule formation, which had assumed at most densities of only about 0.1 grams per cubic meter, and normally considerably less. At densities of 10 grams per cubic meter or more, regions only a few thousand kilometers across, small by astronomical standards, could collapse under their own gravity to make objects that would be 10s of kilometers across. "What's notable about this result is that it raises the possibility that the formation of chondrules in these high-density regions was linked to the formation of kilometer-sized objects called planetesimals, which were the first stage in building Earth-like planets," says Alexander. "It will also help narrow down the possibilities for the cause of the heating that produced the chondrules, as well as the sizes of the regions where they formed. Heating chondrules to their peak temperatures and then quickly cooling them down when they are present at such high densities is a significant challenge for any mechanism proposed to explain chondrule origin. These tiny objects still have a lot to tell us about how our solar system took shape." This research was supported by the Carnegie Institution, the NASA Origins of Solar Systems Program, and the NASA Cosmochemistry Program. IMAGE CAPTION: [http://www.ciw.edu/sites/www.ciw.edu/files/news/1ac91edbig.jpg (52KB)] False color micrograph of a chondrule from the Semarkona meteorite. Red indicates olivine crystals, blue and green are glass. High-density dust prevented sodium in the glass from evaporating during chondrule formation, despite high temperatures. Scale bar = 0.5 mm. From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Fri Jun 27 19:26:23 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 16:26:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Phoenix Scrapes to Icy Soil in Wonderland Message-ID: <200806272326.QAA17646@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/phoenix/release.php?ArticleID=1768 Phoenix Scrapes to Icy Soil in Wonderland Jet Propulsion Laboratory June 27, 2008 NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander scraped to icy soil in the "Wonderland" area on Thursday, June 26, confirming that surface soil, subsurface soil and icy soil can be sampled at a single trench. Phoenix scientists are now assured they have a complete soil-layer profile in Wonderland's "Snow White" extended trench. By rasping to icy soil, the robotic arm on Phoenix proved it could flatten the layer where soil meets ice, exposing the icy flat surface below the soil. Scientists can now proceed with plans to scoop and scrape samples into Phoenix's various analytical instruments. Scientists will test samples to determine if some ice in the soil may have been liquid in the past during warmer climate cycles. It's another encouraging step to meeting Phoenix mission goals, which are to study the history of Martian water in all its phases and determine if the Martian arctic soil could support life. The Phoenix mission is led by Peter Smith of the University of Arizona with project management at JPL and development partnership at Lockheed Martin, located in Denver. International contributions come from the Canadian Space Agency; the University of Neuchatel, Switzerland; the universities of Copenhagen and Aarhus, Denmark; Max Planck Institute, Germany; and the Finnish Meteorological Institute. For more about Phoenix, visit: http://www.nasa.gov/phoenix and http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu. Media contacts: Guy Webster 818-354-6278 Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. guy.webster at jpl.nasa.gov Dwayne Brown 202-358-1726 NASA Headquarters, Washington dwayne.c.brown at nasa.gov Sara Hammond 520-626-1974 University of Arizona, Tucson shammond at lpl.arizona.edu From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Fri Jun 27 19:31:33 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 16:31:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] SOHO Discovers Its 1500th Comet Message-ID: <200806272331.QAA19252@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEMB94SHKHF_index_0.html SOHO discovers its 1500th comet European Space Agency 27 June 2008 The ESA/NASA SOHO spacecraft has just discovered its 1500th comet, making it more successful than all other comet discoverers throughout history put together. Not bad for a spacecraft that was designed as a solar physics mission. SOHO's record-breaking discovery was made late on 25 June. When it comes to comet catching, the SOlar and Heliospheric Observatory has one big advantage over everybody else: its location. Situated between the Sun and Earth, it has a privileged view of a region of space that can rarely be seen from Earth. From the surface, we can see regions close to the Sun clearly only during an eclipse. Roughly 85% of SOHO discoveries are fragments from a once-great comet that split apart in a death plunge around the Sun, probably many centuries ago. The fragments are known as the Kreutz group and now pass within 1.5 million km of the Sun's surface when they return from deep space. At this proximity, which is a near miss in celestial terms, most of the fragments are finally destroyed, evaporated by the Sun's fearsome radiation - within sight of SOHO's electronic eyes. The images are captured by the Large Angle and Spectrometric Coronograph (LASCO), one of 12 instruments on board. Of course, LASCO itself does not make the detections; that task falls to an open group of highly-skilled volunteers who scan the data as soon as it is downloaded to Earth. Once SOHO transmits to Earth, the data can be on the Internet and ready for analysis within 15 minutes. Enthusiasts from all over the world look at each individual image for a tiny moving speck that could be a comet. When someone believes they have found one, they submit their results to Karl Battams at the Naval Research Laboratory, Washington DC, who checks all of SOHO???s findings before submitting them to the Minor Planet Center, where the comet is catalogued and its orbit calculated. The wealth of comet information has value beyond mere classification. "This is allowing us to see how comets die," says Battams. When a comet constantly circles the Sun, it loses a little more ice each time, until it eventually falls to pieces, leaving a long trail of fragments. Thanks to SOHO, astronomers now have a plethora of images showing this process. "It's a unique data set and could not have been achieved in any other way," says Battams. All this is on top of the extraordinary revelations that SOHO has provided over the 13 years it has been in space, observing the Sun and the near-Sun environment. "Catching the enormous total of comets has been an unplanned bonus," says Bernhard Fleck, ESA SOHO Project Scientist. Notes for Editors: Anyone can help to search for SOHO???s comets by visiting the Sungrazing comets page . The Minor Planet Center operates under the auspices of the International Astronomical Union, and is located in Cambridge, Massachusetts. For more information: Karl Battams, Naval Research Laboratory, USA Email: Karl.Battams @ nrl.navy.mil Bernhard Fleck, ESA SOHO Project Scientist Email: Bfleck @ esa.nascom.nasa.gov From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Fri Jun 27 20:20:32 2008 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 17:20:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] 100 Years of Space Rock: The Tunguska Impact Message-ID: <200806280020.RAA21763@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/features.cfm?feature=1769 100 Years of Space Rock: The Tunguska Impact Jet Propulsion Laboratory June 27, 2008 At around 7:17 on the morning of June 30, 1908, a man based at the trading post at Vanavara in Siberia is sitting on his front porch. In a moment, 40 miles from the center of an immense blast of unknown origin, he will be hurled from his chair and the heat will be so intense he will feel as though his shirt is on fire. The man at the trading post, and others in a largely uninhabited region of Siberia, near the Podkamennaya Tunguska River, are to be accidental eyewitnesses to cosmological history. "If you want to start a conversation with anyone in the asteroid business all you have to say is Tunguska," said Don Yeomans, manager of the Near-Earth Object Office at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory. "It is the only entry of a large meteoroid we have in the modern era with first-hand accounts." While the impact occurred in '08, the first scientific expedition to the area would have to wait for 19 years. In 1921, Leonid Kulik, the chief curator for the meteorite collection of the St. Petersburg museum led an expedition to Tunguska. But the harsh conditions of the Siberian outback thwarted his team's attempt to reach the area of the blast. In 1927, a new expedition, again lead by Kulik, reached its goal. "At first, the locals were reluctant to tell Kulik about the event," said Yeomans. "They believed the blast was a visitation by the god Ogdy, who had cursed the area by smashing trees and killing animals." While testimonials may have at first been difficult to obtain, there was plenty of evidence lying around. Eight hundred square miles of remote forest had been ripped asunder. Eighty million trees were on their sides, lying in a radial pattern. "Those trees acted as markers, pointing directly away from the blast's epicenter," said Yeomans. "Later, when the team arrived at ground zero, they found the trees there standing upright -- but their limbs and bark had been stripped away. They looked like a forest of telephone poles." Such debranching requires fast moving shock waves that break off a tree's branches before the branches can transfer the impact momentum to the tree's stem. Thirty seven years after the Tunguska blast, branchless trees would be found at the site of another massive explosion -- Hiroshima, Japan. Kulik's expeditions (he traveled to Tunguska on three separate occasions) did finally get some of the locals to talk. One was the man based at the Vanara trading post who witnessed the heat blast as he was launched a few yards. His account: Suddenly in the north sky...the sky was split in two, and high above the forest the whole northern part of the sky appeared covered with fire...At that moment there was a bang in the sky and a mighty crash...The crash was followed by a noise like stones falling from the sky, or of guns firing. The earth trembled. The massive explosion packed a wallop. The resulting seismic shockwave registered with sensitive barometers as far away as England. Dense clouds formed over the region at high altitudes which reflected sunlight from beyond the horizon. Night skies glowed, and reports came in that people who lived as far away as Asia could read newspapers outdoors as late as midnight. Locally, hundreds of reindeer, the livelihood of local herders, were killed, but there was no direct evidence that any person perished in the blast. "A century later some still debate the cause and come up with different scenarios that could have caused the explosion," said Yeomans. "But the generally agreed upon theory is that on the morning of June 30, 1908, a large space rock, about 120 feet across, entered the atmosphere of Siberia and then detonated in the sky." It is estimated the asteroid entered Earth's atmosphere traveling at a speed of about 33,500 miles per hour. During its quick plunge, the 220-million-pound space rock heated the air surrounding it to 44,500 degrees Fahrenheit. At 7:17 a.m. (local Siberia time), at a height of about 28,000 feet, the combination of pressure and heat caused the asteroid to fragment and annihilate itself, producing a fireball and releasing energy equivalent to about 185 Hiroshima bombs. "That is why there is no impact crater," said Yeomans. "The great majority of the asteroid is consumed in the explosion." Yeomans and his colleagues at JPL's Near-Earth Object Office are tasked with plotting the orbits of present-day comets and asteroids that cross Earth's path, and could be potentially hazardous to our planet. Yeomans estimates that, on average, a Tunguska-sized asteroid will enter Earth's atmosphere once every 300 years. On this 100th anniversary of the Tunguska event, does that mean we have 200 years of largely meteor-free skies? "Not necessarily," said Yeomans. "The 300 years between Tunguska-sized events is an average based on our best science. I think about Tunguska all the time from a scientific point of view, but the thought of a another Tunguska does not keep me up at night." ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From paseclipse at yahoo.com Fri Jun 27 21:28:59 2008 From: paseclipse at yahoo.com (Del Waterbury) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 18:28:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Is this a meteorite In-Reply-To: <000901c8d87f$1a813260$0201a8c0@laptop> Message-ID: <943828.80606.qm@web51309.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Yeah there's no mistaking Galena when you see it. The way it fractures and the color is always a dead give away. Here's a link that explains it some, take note of the density- http://www.webmineral.com/data/Galena.shtml Del --- On Fri, 6/27/08, Pete Shugar wrote: > From: Pete Shugar > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Is this a meteorite > To: "Del Waterbury" , meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, "David & Kitt Deyarmin" , meteoritemall at yahoo.com, "Mr EMan" > Date: Friday, June 27, 2008, 10:56 AM > I knew I'd seen that somewhere!!! > I pulled out my cat's whisker detector and sure enough > that's just what it looked like. > Pete, IMCA 1773, KL7GNW > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Del Waterbury" > > To: ; > "David & Kitt Deyarmin" > ; > ; "Mr EMan" > > Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 11:09 AM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Is this a meteorite > > > > If I was going to take a guess of what was in that > picture I would say it > > looks like Galena. Not sure if this one has been > suggested yet, but that > > what it looks like to me. > > > > Del > > > > > > --- On Fri, 6/27/08, Mr EMan > wrote: > > > >> From: Mr EMan > >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Is this a meteorite > >> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, > "David & Kitt Deyarmin" > >> , > meteoritemall at yahoo.com > >> Date: Friday, June 27, 2008, 4:01 AM > >> Before anyone falls on their sword over this > specimen, note > >> the gas channel/tube in the middle-- scraggy as it > is, even > >> Na tan isn't worm eaten! > >> > >> It was my observation that, while many folks > submitted lots > >> of candidates which I enjoyed looking over, there > were many > >> subtle distinctions and outright differences that > >> didn't match. The specimen > "resembled" most > >> of them but on closer viewing didn't > "match" > >> any of them. The most common feature was metallic > luster > >> but twasn't the same metallic luster on any of > the > >> photos. > >> > >> Not trying to be pedantic but many times it is > better to > >> look for the differences in all the features(e.g. > fracture, > >> texture, crystal faces, etc.) It the specimens > match there > >> will be none. > >> > >> I don't have a photo of metallic silicon handy > but it > >> too has subtle surface differences: it has a > convex, > >> undulating, fracture vs the flat banded fractures > this > >> specimen shows. > >> > >> Up to this point, the gas channel most certainly > points to > >> a smelting product(aka slag or bad run) and, I > would be > >> comfortable saying that I know what it is not. > The great > >> part about all the photo sharing is we now have > many more > >> materials to compare when we are trying to > identify a given > >> specimen. Plus I wouldn't have totally blown > that > >> mesosiderite photo a few months back had I looked > closer. > >> > >> Thanks Bunches, > >> Elton > >> > >> Elton > >> > >> > >> --- On Thu, 6/26/08, Ruben Garcia > >> wrote: > >> > >> > What bad news? You didn't think it looked > like > >> this > >> > nantan meteorite? > >> http://www.mr-meteorite.com/nantan.htm > >> > To me this is the only picture that looked > like > >> yours... > >> > what did I miss? > >> > >> > --- On Thu, 6/26/08, David & Kitt > Deyarmin > >> > wrote: > >> > > I will relay the bad news to my friend > >> ______________________________________________ > >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com > >> Meteorite-list mailing list > >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From mojave_meteorites at cox.net Fri Jun 27 22:39:42 2008 From: mojave_meteorites at cox.net (Rob Matson) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 19:39:42 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] SOHO Discovers Its 1500th Comet In-Reply-To: <200806272331.QAA19252@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> Message-ID: Hi All, Re: SOHO discovers its 1500th comet European Space Agency 27 June 2008 http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEMB94SHKHF_index_0.html Karl Battams at NRL e-mailed me Thursday morning to tell me the good news: that my Kreutz comet find Wednesday evening turned out to be SOHO's 1500th (and #76 for me): http://ares.nrl.navy.mil/sungrazer/index.php?p=latest_news As I told Karl, I knew the count was getting quite close to 1500, but didn't want to jinx myself by reading through the pages of recent confirmed discoveries to see exactly how close! --Rob From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Sat Jun 28 00:04:26 2008 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 23:04:26 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] SOHO Discovers Its 1500th Comet References: Message-ID: <050701c8d8d4$0e69cbe0$2346e146@ATARIENGINE> Hi, Rob, List, I never thought I'd have the occasion to say it, but "Happy 1500th"! Sterling K. Webb ------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob Matson" To: "Meteorite Mailing List" Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 9:39 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] SOHO Discovers Its 1500th Comet Hi All, Re: SOHO discovers its 1500th comet European Space Agency 27 June 2008 http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEMB94SHKHF_index_0.html Karl Battams at NRL e-mailed me Thursday morning to tell me the good news: that my Kreutz comet find Wednesday evening turned out to be SOHO's 1500th (and #76 for me): http://ares.nrl.navy.mil/sungrazer/index.php?p=latest_news As I told Karl, I knew the count was getting quite close to 1500, but didn't want to jinx myself by reading through the pages of recent confirmed discoveries to see exactly how close! --Rob ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Sat Jun 28 00:11:57 2008 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 23:11:57 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] 100 Years of Space Rock: The Tunguska Impact References: <200806280020.RAA21763@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <050801c8d8d5$1b8c1ca0$2346e146@ATARIENGINE> Hi, List, > The resulting seismic shockwave registered with > sensitive barometers as far away as England... Where ARE all you geologists? Do you measure seismic shock with a barometer? How you do that? There is an entanglement of two data sets here. "...the seismographic center at Irkutsk, 550 miles to the south, registers tremors of earthquake proportions. Vibrations travel 3,000 miles through the ground to other stations in Moscow and the capital, St Petersburg; and the earthquake observatory at Jena, Germany, 3,240 miles away, records strong seismic shocks. Even as far away as Washington, DC, and Java seismographs are activated..." Barometers measure pressure, I believe... At a distance of 375 miles to the south-southwest, strong gusts wind rattle buildings in Kansk, a station town on the Trans-Siberian Railway. Two additional waves of seismic shock strike the town. People working nearby on rafts are hurled into the river, while the Trans-Siberian Express train is jarred and shakes wildly on its visibly vibrating tracks; the train is halted. There is a "black rain" of dust, dirt, tiny debris and carbonized particles. "Within five hours of the blast, turbulent air waves travel west beyond the North Sea, causing strong oscillations at meteorological stations in England. During a span of twenty minutes, sudden fluctuations in atmospheric pressure are detected by recently invented self-recording barographs at all six stations between Cambridge, 50 miles north of London, and Petersfield, 55 miles south. Much later analysis of the barographic record shows that the detectible pressure wave passed completely around the planet and was registered again. (Traces of a third pass are disputed.) The flash of the explosion was seen 225 miles away and the sound was reported from 575 miles away In 1930, in the Royal Meteorological Society Quarterly Journal, Spenser Russell gives an account of the odd colors he observed over England in 1908 on the nights of June 30 and July 1: 'A strong orange-yellow light became visible in the north and northeast ... causing an undue prolongation of twilight lasting to daybreak on July 1st, when the eastern sky was an intense green to yellow-gold hue. ... The entire northern sky on these two nights, from the horizon to an altitude of 40?, was of a suffused red hue varying from pink to an intense crimson. There was a complete absence of scintillation or flickering, and no tendency for the formation of streamers, or a luminous arch, characteristic of auroral phenomena. ... Twilight on both of these nights was prolonged to daybreak, and there was no real darkness. ... The phenomenon was reported from various places in the United Kingdom and on the Continent, from Copenhagen, Konigsberg, Berlin, and Vienna.' According to the London Times of July 4, 1908, 'The remarkable ruddy glows which have been seen on many nights lately have attracted much attention, and have been seen over an area extending as far as Berlin.' ..." On July 5, there is a New York Times story from Britain entitled "Like Dawn at Midnight." And so on, you read newspapers at midnight all over Europe... The outside world knew nothing about the event, of course. The newspaper in Tomsk heard and reported a garbled account of a meteorite falling "near the tracks" at Kansk in July, 1908. They sent a reporter to Kansk who found no meteorites and concluded that if one fell it was far away from Kansk (which it was). A week later the Tomsk newspaper, still dubious about that meteorite story, suggested that the event near Kansk had been an earthquake, followed by "a subterranean crash and a roar as from distant firing. Doors, windows, and the lamps before icons were all shaken. Five to seven minutes later a second crash followed, louder than the first, accompanied by a similar roar and followed after a brief interval by yet another crash." It was finding clippings of this and other newspaper stories 12 years later that got Kulik interested in locating "the fall." Getting to the area soon showed him the "fall" was elsewhere and he widely circulated flyers asking for reminisences. (I think he may have beat Nininger to this trick; it was 1921.) S.V. Obruchev, a geologist conducting research along the Stony Tunguska River in the summer of 1924, encountered such superstitious awe among the natives about the blast, which he presumed had been caused by the impact of a large meteorite, that he wrote, "In the eyes of the Tungusi people, the meteorite is apparently sacred, and they carefully conceal the place where it fell." As Kulik was later to discover on his second Siberian journey, many Tungus were afraid to talk about the explosion and some completely denied its existence. Others reluctantly admitted to Obruchev only that a huge area of "flattened forest" could be found by traveling three or four days northeast of Vanavara to a wild and almost inaccessible part of the country near the Chambe and Khushmo rivers. Another local report sent to Kulik stated that, according to the Tungus, at least a thousand reindeer had been killed and several of their nomadic villages had vanished during the explosion. At a distance of 25 miles from the site is the closest where merely injured individuals and destroyed and damaged buildings (huts) are found. According to... Akulina, who was questioned in 1926 by ethnographer I. M. Suslov, the entire family in the tent was thrown into the air and several knocked out by the explosion. The tent was approximately 25 miles southeast of the blast site. When Akulina and her husband woke up, Suslov reported, they saw "the forest blazing around them with many fallen trees. There was also a great noise." Suslov spoke to an elderly Tungus who had been sharing the tent with the family and recorded this story: "Vasily had been sleeping at the moment when the tent was torn away and had been thrown to the side by a powerful jolt. He had not lost consciousness. He said that he heard an unbelievably loud and continuous thunder; the ground shook, burning trees fell, and all around there was smoke and haze. Soon the thunder stopped, the wind ceased, but the forest continued to burn." In 1926, A. V. Voznesensky, former head of the Irkutsk Observatory, using information acquired by Kulik and Obruchev, as well as earlier seismic data from Irkutsk and other Russian stations and observations of acoustical phenomena throughout central Siberia, attempted to trace the path of the body and determine its impact point. He found that the effects of the explosion had been seen and heard by people over an incredibly immense geographical area, one larger than France and Germany combined. The "fiery object" racing through the cloudless sky had been observed by thousands from the southern border of Siberia to the Tunguska region, while the noise of the explosion, the heavy claps, and rumblings "like thunder" were audible for a radius of 500+ miles. From these reports and the seismic data, he was able to gauge the time of the blast at about 7:17 A.M. on June 30, 1908. The place of the fall, he estimated, was in the territory north of Vanavara. He calculated a hole bigger than Arizona's Meteor Crater. He gave his results to Kulik, who set off in 1927. There's actually a lot of useful data in the witness reports. For example, If you look at the fired forest at 25 miles, the feeling that one's shirt had burst into flame (but hadn't) at 40 miles and the reported secondary shadows half as dense as the morning sun's shadows at a station 125 miles away, there have three data points: the infra-red flux at 25 and 40 miles and the visible light flux at 125 miles. This is sufficient to construct a rough "black-body" curve of the event (with about +/- 20% accuracy) and determine the energy and peak temperature of the event. The barometric traces from England were compared to nuclear airbursts of 15 and 25 megatons respectively, measured at the same distance (5270 km), by the meteologist E. L. Deacon in 1982. The traces show stronger and sharper excursions than either nuclear event. Deacon suggests the range of 30 to 40 megatons is the best fit. The "black body" calculation (above) yields a result of 32.7 (+/-5.6) megatons. On April 13, 1927, Kulik, one assistant, and his Tungus guide, all suffering from scurvy, reached the banks of the small Makirta River and the edge of 830 square miles of flattened forest that stretched to the horizon, a circle roughly 15 to 20 miles across. Kulik wrote: "I still cannot sort out my chaotic impressions of this excursion. Above all, I cannot really take in the whole majestic picture of this unique meteorite fall. A very hilly, almost mountainous, region stretches away tens of versts towards the northern horizon. In the north the distant hills along the River Khushmo are covered with a white shroud of snow half a metre thick. From our observation point no sign of forest can be seen... One has an uncanny feeling when one sees 20 to 30-inch thick giant trees snapped across like twigs, and their tops hurled many metres away to the south. It took Kulik weeks to reach the epicenter, even though every tree down pointed at it and a small stand of dead trees with all their branches stripped marked the spot. There was, as we know, no crater to be found there. Kulik made more expeditions, dug up the river valley, took along a motion picture photographer, gave lectures... For the next decade, Kulik obstinately persisted in his conviction that under the swamp lay "crushed masses of ... nickeliferous iron, individual pieces of which may have a weight of one or two hundred metric tons." The original meteorite, he estimated, probably weighed, before falling into the earth's atmosphere, "as much as several thousands of metric tons." His companion on the second expedition, Sytin, guessed that the value of the metal might be between 100 and 200 million dollars, chiefly for the iron and platinum. Following his 1928 trip to central Siberia, Kulik had given a lecture, accompanied by Strukov's motion picture of the Tunguska destruction, to a Moscow audience that, according to the report of the New York Times, "shivered" as he outlined one of the more alarming implications of the event: "Astronomers and geologists know that this was an exceptional circumstance. But they know also that there is no reason whatever why a similar visitation should not fall at any moment upon a more populous region. Thus, had this meteorite fallen in Central Belgium, there would have been no living creature left in the whole country; on London, none left alive in South [of] Manchester or East [of] Bristol. Had it fallen on New York, Philadelphia might have escaped with only its windows shattered, and New Haven and Boston escaped, too. But all life in the central area of the meteor's impact would have been blotted out instantaneously." In 1933, Nininger urged an American expedition to Tunguska to search for "the meteorite." He couldn't get the funding... Kulik (like Barringer) never found his vast mass of "nickeliferous iron." In 1938-39 he attempted aerial mapping (unsuccessfully), cut a road through the forest to the site, and built an airstrip. On July 5, 1941, at the beginning of the Nazi advance into Russia, Kulik "volunteered" for the Moscow People's Militia, a home guard unit composed chiefly of older men like himself with little military training. Despite the Soviet Academy's request that, because of his achievements for the Committee on Meteorites, he be excused from service, Kulik remained in the home guard. In October, while taking part in a battle on the front line, Kulik was wounded in the leg and captured by the advancing German Army. Imprisoned in a Nazi camp in Spas-Demensk, in the Smolensk district, the fifty-eight-year-old scientist contracted typhus and died on April 24, 1942. Sterling K. Webb ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Baalke" To: "Meteorite Mailing List" Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 7:20 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] 100 Years of Space Rock: The Tunguska Impact http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/features.cfm?feature=1769 100 Years of Space Rock: The Tunguska Impact Jet Propulsion Laboratory June 27, 2008 At around 7:17 on the morning of June 30, 1908, a man based at the trading post at Vanavara in Siberia is sitting on his front porch. In a moment, 40 miles from the center of an immense blast of unknown origin, he will be hurled from his chair and the heat will be so intense he will feel as though his shirt is on fire. The man at the trading post, and others in a largely uninhabited region of Siberia, near the Podkamennaya Tunguska River, are to be accidental eyewitnesses to cosmological history. "If you want to start a conversation with anyone in the asteroid business all you have to say is Tunguska," said Don Yeomans, manager of the Near-Earth Object Office at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory. "It is the only entry of a large meteoroid we have in the modern era with first-hand accounts." While the impact occurred in '08, the first scientific expedition to the area would have to wait for 19 years. In 1921, Leonid Kulik, the chief curator for the meteorite collection of the St. Petersburg museum led an expedition to Tunguska. But the harsh conditions of the Siberian outback thwarted his team's attempt to reach the area of the blast. In 1927, a new expedition, again lead by Kulik, reached its goal. "At first, the locals were reluctant to tell Kulik about the event," said Yeomans. "They believed the blast was a visitation by the god Ogdy, who had cursed the area by smashing trees and killing animals." While testimonials may have at first been difficult to obtain, there was plenty of evidence lying around. Eight hundred square miles of remote forest had been ripped asunder. Eighty million trees were on their sides, lying in a radial pattern. "Those trees acted as markers, pointing directly away from the blast's epicenter," said Yeomans. "Later, when the team arrived at ground zero, they found the trees there standing upright -- but their limbs and bark had been stripped away. They looked like a forest of telephone poles." Such debranching requires fast moving shock waves that break off a tree's branches before the branches can transfer the impact momentum to the tree's stem. Thirty seven years after the Tunguska blast, branchless trees would be found at the site of another massive explosion -- Hiroshima, Japan. Kulik's expeditions (he traveled to Tunguska on three separate occasions) did finally get some of the locals to talk. One was the man based at the Vanara trading post who witnessed the heat blast as he was launched a few yards. His account: Suddenly in the north sky...the sky was split in two, and high above the forest the whole northern part of the sky appeared covered with fire...At that moment there was a bang in the sky and a mighty crash...The crash was followed by a noise like stones falling from the sky, or of guns firing. The earth trembled. The massive explosion packed a wallop. The resulting seismic shockwave registered with sensitive barometers as far away as England. Dense clouds formed over the region at high altitudes which reflected sunlight from beyond the horizon. Night skies glowed, and reports came in that people who lived as far away as Asia could read newspapers outdoors as late as midnight. Locally, hundreds of reindeer, the livelihood of local herders, were killed, but there was no direct evidence that any person perished in the blast. "A century later some still debate the cause and come up with different scenarios that could have caused the explosion," said Yeomans. "But the generally agreed upon theory is that on the morning of June 30, 1908, a large space rock, about 120 feet across, entered the atmosphere of Siberia and then detonated in the sky." It is estimated the asteroid entered Earth's atmosphere traveling at a speed of about 33,500 miles per hour. During its quick plunge, the 220-million-pound space rock heated the air surrounding it to 44,500 degrees Fahrenheit. At 7:17 a.m. (local Siberia time), at a height of about 28,000 feet, the combination of pressure and heat caused the asteroid to fragment and annihilate itself, producing a fireball and releasing energy equivalent to about 185 Hiroshima bombs. "That is why there is no impact crater," said Yeomans. "The great majority of the asteroid is consumed in the explosion." Yeomans and his colleagues at JPL's Near-Earth Object Office are tasked with plotting the orbits of present-day comets and asteroids that cross Earth's path, and could be potentially hazardous to our planet. Yeomans estimates that, on average, a Tunguska-sized asteroid will enter Earth's atmosphere once every 300 years. On this 100th anniversary of the Tunguska event, does that mean we have 200 years of largely meteor-free skies? "Not necessarily," said Yeomans. "The 300 years between Tunguska-sized events is an average based on our best science. I think about Tunguska all the time from a scientific point of view, but the thought of a another Tunguska does not keep me up at night." ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From michael at spacerocksinc.com Sat Jun 28 00:20:13 2008 From: michael at spacerocksinc.com (Michael Johnson) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 21:20:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 28, 2008 Message-ID: <5638042.1234391214626813927.JavaMail.root@mbs6.homesteadmail.com> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/June_28_2008.html From mikewren at gilanet.com Sat Jun 28 01:22:07 2008 From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 23:22:07 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] FW: looking for Andrew Abrahams email? Message-ID: <200806272325900.SM01568@yourfsyly0jtwn> ________________________________________ From: michael cottingham [mailto:mikewren at gilanet.com] Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 11:20 PM To: 'Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com' Subject: looking for Andrew Abrahams email? Hello, Maybe someone from Colorado can help me with Andrew Abraham's email address? Best Wishes Michael Cottingham From mikewren at gilanet.com Sat Jun 28 01:34:48 2008 From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 23:34:48 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] FW: Question? Who has The Columbus, New Mexico Main Mass? Message-ID: <200806272338415.SM01044@yourfsyly0jtwn> ________________________________________ From: michael cottingham [mailto:mikewren at gilanet.com] Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 11:25 PM To: 'Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com' Subject: Question? Who has The Columbus, New Mexico Main Mass? Hello, I am looking for the owner of my old Main Mass- Columbus, New Mexico? Anyone on the list own it? Best Wishes Michael Cottingham From mlblood at cox.net Sat Jun 28 01:40:24 2008 From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael L Blood) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 22:40:24 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Svend In-Reply-To: <050701c8d8d4$0e69cbe0$2346e146@ATARIENGINE> Message-ID: DEAR SVEND, Please contact me off list Thanks, Michael From nicholslarry at yahoo.com Sat Jun 28 03:18:22 2008 From: nicholslarry at yahoo.com (Larry Nichols) Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 00:18:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Impact material? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <300716.81549.qm@web33403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello Everyone, I'm looking for opinions and input on possible impact material or meteorwrongs I've collected from one specific location on my property here in Tennessee. They vary greatly in size from a few kgs to small metal and glassy (spherules?) To compare to meteorites, they resemble weathered irons. Some appear to be completely altered to hematite and/or magnetite. Some filed corners do have visible metal and attract a magnet. Most are aerodynamically shaped shields or nosecones, some with obvious flanges. Otherwise they could possibly be some type of splash form of impactite. Some do vary in texture as if mixed with target rock. If these are impact related, they are obviously from an ancient fall (find). Some are still surfacing, but I do get strong readings from my metal detector at some depth for iron and nickel in the same area. I haven't tried digging any of these targets yet. I thought I would get some opinions before proceeding. I would appreciate any comments pro or con or whether it's worth digging those deeper targets. I have uploaded some photos to a photobucket album: http://s27.photobucket.com/albums/c172/TennesseeTreasures/ Thanks for any input. Larry Nichols Lynnville, Tennessee From moni2555 at hotmail.com Sat Jun 28 06:42:48 2008 From: moni2555 at hotmail.com (Moni Waiblinger) Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 03:42:48 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Impact material? In-Reply-To: <300716.81549.qm@web33403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <300716.81549.qm@web33403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Good morning Larry and everyone, maybe you should take some of them or send them to this location: Planetary Geosciences Institute, Dept. Geological Sciences, University of Tennessee, Knoxville, TN 37996, USA. Interesting looking rocks! I would have them checked out. Wouldn't it be great to find out if they are related to space, somehow. With best regards, Moni _________________________________________________________________ Do more with your photos with Windows Live Photo Gallery. http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Wave2_photos_022008 From grf2 at verizon.net Sat Jun 28 08:27:54 2008 From: grf2 at verizon.net (Jerry) Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 08:27:54 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 28, 2008 In-Reply-To: <5638042.1234391214626813927.JavaMail.root@mbs6.homesteadmail.com> References: <5638042.1234391214626813927.JavaMail.root@mbs6.homesteadmail.com> Message-ID: Slickensides develop at fault slippage zones. At what point in its history did Zag experience its unusual condition, prior to its ejection from its parent body? Jerry Flaherty ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Johnson" To: "Meteorite List" Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2008 12:20 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 28, 2008 > http://www.rocksfromspace.org/June_28_2008.html > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From tett at rogers.com Sat Jun 28 09:15:23 2008 From: tett at rogers.com (tett) Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 09:15:23 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Summer time slowdown References: <5638042.1234391214626813927.JavaMail.root@mbs6.homesteadmail.com> Message-ID: <000601c8d921$063d2dc0$6401a8c0@tett1> Having a nice coffee on a slow Saturday morning while relaxing at my computer I began to contemplate meteorites and I picked up my gorgeous ~250gram Chergach individual (Thanks Roman!). I began to realize that summer time is a slow time for me when it comes to meteorites. Not that my love for them wanes but other interests and activities and commitments arise during the summer and over the years I found that I simply stop going nuts over meteorites and turn my attention to other things. One big distraction is motorcycles. I spend as much time on the open road cruising on my Valkyrie or bombing on my 1975 CB750. Never enough time to ride one of my bikes and even my wife complains that I do not take her riding enough. I have no fear that my love(lust) for meteorites will explode again this fall as it has every year for the past dozen years or so. In October I hope to pop in on Bernd and that will definitely kick me in the back side and get my meteorite saliva flowing. All this contemplation got me to thinking about you other guys and gals hooked on stellar stones. Is your love for meteorites cyclical? Is that why the list is so slow right now? What seasonal activities distract others from meteorites? Are sales slowest this time of year? Have a great Saturday! Mike Tettenborn Owen Sound, Ontario From meteoritefinder at gmail.com Sat Jun 28 09:28:17 2008 From: meteoritefinder at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 06:28:17 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Summer time slowdown In-Reply-To: <000601c8d921$063d2dc0$6401a8c0@tett1> References: <5638042.1234391214626813927.JavaMail.root@mbs6.homesteadmail.com> <000601c8d921$063d2dc0$6401a8c0@tett1> Message-ID: <468bf6050806280628l14dcb068he446bdb6ab1384c1@mail.gmail.com> Hi Mike, I have my children for a time every summer this year it is a little short of a month. The rest of the time they live with their mother in Maine. So when they are here I hunt and work (on meteorites) as little as possible. Yes business is very slow this time of year, some of my friends who sell almost exclusively on E bay struggle every summer, just to stay above starvation. That is my main distraction, not to mention that it is just too hot to hunt the southern deserts this time of year. On Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 6:15 AM, tett wrote: > Having a nice coffee on a slow Saturday morning while relaxing at my > computer I began to contemplate meteorites and I picked up my gorgeous > ~250gram Chergach individual (Thanks Roman!). I began to realize that > summer time is a slow time for me when it comes to meteorites. Not that my > love for them wanes but other interests and activities and commitments arise > during the summer and over the years I found that I simply stop going nuts > over meteorites and turn my attention to other things. One big distraction > is motorcycles. I spend as much time on the open road cruising on my > Valkyrie or bombing on my 1975 CB750. Never enough time to ride one of my > bikes and even my wife complains that I do not take her riding enough. > > I have no fear that my love(lust) for meteorites will explode again this > fall as it has every year for the past dozen years or so. In October I hope > to pop in on Bernd and that will definitely kick me in the back side and get > my meteorite saliva flowing. > > All this contemplation got me to thinking about you other guys and gals > hooked on stellar stones. Is your love for meteorites cyclical? Is that > why the list is so slow right now? What seasonal activities distract others > from meteorites? Are sales slowest this time of year? > > Have a great Saturday! > > Mike Tettenborn > Owen Sound, Ontario > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- Mike Miller 230 Greenway Dr. Kingman Az 86401 www.meteoritefinder.com 928-753-6825 From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com Sat Jun 28 13:15:04 2008 From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold) Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 10:15:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA 1685, THE BLACK NWA Message-ID: <612036.72425.qm@web57802.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Good afternoon list.I have been thinking lately about the black nwa,nwa 1685.To me it is one of the most beautiful meteorites I have ever seen.With it's black velvety crust and just beautiful inside.I was wondering if any info has come back on the classification.And as always,I am always looking for more.Any thoughts? Steve R.Arnold,chicago,Ill,Usa!! ???? The Asteroid Belt! ??? http://chicagometeorites.net/ ??? Collecting Meteorites since 06/19/1999 ??? Ebay I.D. Illinoismeteorites From cynapse at charter.net Sat Jun 28 13:35:36 2008 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 13:35:36 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA 1685, THE BLACK NWA In-Reply-To: <612036.72425.qm@web57802.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <612036.72425.qm@web57802.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 10:15:04 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: >Good afternoon list.I have been thinking lately about the black nwa,nwa 1685.To me it is one of the most beautiful meteorites I have ever seen.With it's black velvety crust and just beautiful inside.I was wondering if any info has come back on the classification.And as always,I am always looking for more.Any thoughts? > I hear that the black NWA went in for classification but, unfortunately, while traveling through Los Angeles, it was stopped by police for on apparent reason and severely beaten before being locked away. So who knows how long before we have classification data? :-( From wahlperry at aol.com Sat Jun 28 15:08:31 2008 From: wahlperry at aol.com (wahlperry at aol.com) Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 15:08:31 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Summer time slowdown In-Reply-To: <468bf6050806280628l14dcb068he446bdb6ab1384c1@mail.gmail.com> References: <5638042.1234391214626813927.JavaMail.root@mbs6.homesteadmail.com> <000601c8d921$063d2dc0$6401a8c0@tett1> <468bf6050806280628l14dcb068he446bdb6ab1384c1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8CAA7697CFBCF7A-1404-35F1@webmail-nf14.sim.aol.com> Hi Mike, and all I know what you guys mean by summer time slowdown and it is only going to get hotter! I have been working on some web page updates and new formats. I should just hire a computer guy but that would take all the fun out of it and be to easy. But at this rate I should have it done next year. Just teasing! I also have to get everything ready for a 9 day meteorite hunting trip. Just think by then it should only be around 107-110 degrees. I can't wait. Sonny -----Original Message----- From: Mike Miller To: tett Cc: Meteorite List Sent: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 6:28 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Summer time slowdown Hi Mike, I have my children for a time every summer this year it is a little short of a month. The rest of the time they live with their mother in Maine. So when they are here I hunt and work (on meteorites) as little as possible. Yes business is very slow this time of year, some of my friends who sell almost exclusively on E bay struggle every summer, just to stay above starvation. That is my main distraction, not to mention that it is just too hot to hunt the southern deserts this time of year. On Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 6:15 AM, tett wrote: > Having a nice coffee on a slow Saturday morning while relaxing at my > computer I began to contemplate meteorites and I picked up my gorgeous > ~250gram Chergach individual (Thanks Roman!). I began to realize that > summer time is a slow time for me when it comes to meteorites. Not that my > love for them wanes but other interests and activities and commitments arise > during the summer and over the years I found that I simply stop going nuts > over meteorites and turn my attention to other things. One big distraction > is motorcycles. I spend as much time on the open road cruising on my > Valkyrie or bombing on my 1975 CB750. Never enough time to ride one of my > bikes and even my wife complains that I do not take her riding enough. > > I have no fear that my love(lust) for meteorites will explode again this > fall as it has every year for the past dozen years or so. In October I hope > to pop in on Bernd and that will definitely kick me in the back side and get > my meteorite saliva flowing. > > All this contemplation got me to thinking about you other guys and gals > hooked on stellar stones. Is your love for meteorites cyclical? Is that > why the list is so slow right now? What seasonal activities distract others > from meteorites? Are sales slowest this time of year? > > Have a great Saturday! > > Mike Tettenborn > Owen Sound, Ontario > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- Mike Miller 230 Greenway Dr. Kingman Az 86401 www.meteoritefinder.com 928-753-6825 ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From paseclipse at yahoo.com Sat Jun 28 16:33:46 2008 From: paseclipse at yahoo.com (Del Waterbury) Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 13:33:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] SOHO Discovers Its 1500th Comet In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <650235.109.qm@web51303.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Congrats Rob! Del --- On Fri, 6/27/08, Rob Matson wrote: > From: Rob Matson > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] SOHO Discovers Its 1500th Comet > To: "Meteorite Mailing List" > Date: Friday, June 27, 2008, 7:39 PM > Hi All, > > Re: > > SOHO discovers its 1500th comet > European Space Agency > 27 June 2008 > > http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEMB94SHKHF_index_0.html > > Karl Battams at NRL e-mailed me Thursday morning to tell me > the good > news: that my Kreutz comet find Wednesday evening turned > out to be > SOHO's 1500th (and #76 for me): > > http://ares.nrl.navy.mil/sungrazer/index.php?p=latest_news > > As I told Karl, I knew the count was getting quite close to > 1500, but > didn't want to jinx myself by reading through the pages > of recent > confirmed discoveries to see exactly how close! --Rob > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Sat Jun 28 17:04:51 2008 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 28 Jun 2008 21:04:51 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] Impact material? Message-ID: http://s27.photobucket.com/albums/c172/TennesseeTreasures/ Hello Larry, Moni and List, These "metallic objects" sure look promising, especially in view of the fact that numerous, famous US meteoritic irons come from Tennessee! Have you already tried cutting one or some of them? This might reveal their meteoritic or pseudo-meteoritic character. Etching a cut surface may then reveal a Widmanst?tten pattern, which would unmistakably make them genuine iron meteorites unless they are hexahedrites (like North Chile) or ataxites (like Babb's Mill, Tennessee). As Moni suggested: Get them tested !!! Best regards from summerly Germany, Bernd From waltbranch at bellsouth.net Sat Jun 28 17:37:05 2008 From: waltbranch at bellsouth.net (Walter Branch) Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 17:37:05 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Books afor Sale Message-ID: <00dc01c8d967$1c6ca440$6101a8c0@BranchFamily> Hello Everyone, I was admitted to the hospital for my 5th and final surgery last week and was discharged earlier this week. That means medical bills are coming due soon. I have decided to sell some meteorites and books. I will be listing some meteorites on ebay over the next several days (actually starting today) but I thought I would open up the books to list members first. Please add a token $2.00 for shipping to CONUS. $2.00 shipping applies regardless of the number of books you buy. Non-US residents will have to pay actual shipping charges as there is note a media rate for international mail. Preferences given to persons wanting more than one book. Descriptions can be found on abe.com and amazon.com. Checks, money orders and paypal accepted. Cosmic Debris: Meteorites in history, by John Burke. Hardcover with DJ, as issued. New, pristine condition. The most scholarly work on the history of meteorites. I checked out the prices of this book at amazon.com and abe.com and was Astounded, particularly considering the condition there were offered in. -- $90.00 Meteorites, Ice and Antarctica by William Cassidy. Hardback with DJ, as issued. New condition. --$15.00 Disturbing the Solar System by Alan Rubin. Softcover. New condition - $10.00 Meteorites from A to Z by Michael and William Jensen. Spiral bound. New Condition - $17.00 Souvenirs from Space: The Oscar E. Monnig Meteorite Gallery at TCU. The is a children's book. New condition. --$5.00 Meteorite Hunter: The Search for Siberian Meteorite Craters by Roy Gallant. Hardcover with DJ, as issued. New condition.--$6.00 Rain of Iron and Ice: The very Real Threat of Comet and Asteroid Bombardment by John S. Lewis. Softcover. New condition. $6.00 Rocks from Space, 2nd Edition, by O. Richard Norton. Softcover. New Condition --$20.00 Thunderstones and Shooting stars: The Meaning of Meteorites by Robert Dodd. Softcover. This book is not in new condition as it has some minor water staining at the edge which affects the preface section. --$5.00 The Mystery of the Tunguska Fireball by Surendra Verma. Softcover. New condition. --$7.00 Meteorites in Georgia by E. P Henderson and A. S. Furcron. Published in 1966. Glossy softcover pages. Everything you would want to know about meteorites that have been found in Georgia (US). New condition. $10.00 Thanks. Walter Branch ________________________ From nicholslarry at yahoo.com Sat Jun 28 17:46:10 2008 From: nicholslarry at yahoo.com (Larry Nichols) Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 14:46:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Impact material? Message-ID: <154306.61220.qm@web33401.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello everyone, Thanks to all who replied. Sean, I haven't cut and polished any yet. Simon, I would be interested in letting you cut and polish a couple just to see whats inside. We could talk about it offlist if you're still interested. If we have a positive response from this, I will take you're advise Moni and send some to UTK and see what we have. Kevin, I'm sure we can work something out. Just let me know what youre interested in. BTW I'm located in southern Middle Tennessee, about halfway between Nashville and Huntsville Al. I added a few photos of some of the other mixed possible impact material to the album (possible impact material). Thanks everyone for your interest. http://s27.photobucket.com/albums/c172/TennesseeTreasures/ Thanks again, Best Regards, Larry Nichols Lynnville, Tennessee --- On Sat, 6/28/08, kevin decker wrote: > From: kevin decker > Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Impact material? > To: nicholslarry at yahoo.com > Date: Saturday, June 28, 2008, 10:07 AM > Hi Larry,would you care to part with a couple?..I have a > microscope and would like to veiw them under it.just where > is Lynnville?I live in north GA,Rossville to be exact,these > are the type of rocks I collect.I;ve found lumps like that > around here...but mostly smaller in size,I was just given > some rocks that came from S.C,and I beleive they are impact > related.let me know if you care to sell a couple,I'm > always looking for these kinds of things,Thanks, > Kevin W.L.Decker > > > Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 00:18:22 -0700> From: > nicholslarry at yahoo.com> To: > meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com> Subject: > [meteorite-list] Impact material?> > Hello > Everyone,> > I'm looking for opinions and input > on possible impact material or meteorwrongs I've > collected from one specific location on my property here in > Tennessee. They vary greatly in size from a few kgs to small > metal and glassy (spherules?) To compare to meteorites, they > resemble weathered irons. Some appear to be completely > altered to hematite and/or magnetite. Some filed corners do > have visible metal and attract a magnet. Most are > aerodynamically shaped shields or nosecones, some with > obvious flanges. Otherwise they could possibly be some type > of splash form of impactite. Some do vary in texture as if > mixed with target rock. If these are impact related, they > are obviously from an ancient fall (find). Some are still > surfacing, but I do get strong readings from my metal > detector at some depth for iron and nickel in the same > area. I haven't tried digging any of these targets yet. > I thought I would get some opinions before proceeding. I > would appreciate any> comments pro or con or whether > it's worth digging those deeper targets. I have > uploaded some photos to a photobucket album:> > > http://s27.photobucket.com/albums/c172/TennesseeTreasures/> > > Thanks for any input.> > Larry Nichols> > Lynnville, Tennessee From nicholslarry at yahoo.com Sat Jun 28 17:55:37 2008 From: nicholslarry at yahoo.com (Larry Nichols) Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 14:55:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Impact material? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <318422.28413.qm@web33407.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Thanks Bernd, I've been hanging around here long enough to know you are highly respected, and it is well deserved! I highly value your opinion, and I fully intend to take your advise. Thanks again. Also summerly southern Tennessee, Larry --- On Sat, 6/28/08, bernd.pauli at paulinet.de wrote: > From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de > Subject: [meteorite-list] Impact material? > To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Saturday, June 28, 2008, 4:04 PM > http://s27.photobucket.com/albums/c172/TennesseeTreasures/ > > Hello Larry, Moni and List, > > These "metallic objects" sure look promising, > especially in view of the > fact that numerous, famous US meteoritic irons come from > Tennessee! > > Have you already tried cutting one or some of them? This > might reveal > their meteoritic or pseudo-meteoritic character. Etching a > cut surface > may then reveal a Widmanst?tten pattern, which would > unmistakably > make them genuine iron meteorites unless they are > hexahedrites (like > North Chile) or ataxites (like Babb's Mill, Tennessee). > > As Moni suggested: Get them tested !!! > > Best regards from > summerly Germany, > > Bernd > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Sat Jun 28 18:42:44 2008 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 28 Jun 2008 22:42:44 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] Impact material? Message-ID: Hello Larry and Listees, Thank you for your nice compliment. If you can't cut and etch one of these masses, maybe someone with the proper equipment, well, like Mike Miller in Arizona, would be willing to cut and etch one of these specimens! Regards, Bernd From cynapse at charter.net Sat Jun 28 18:52:32 2008 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 18:52:32 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Impact material? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 28 Jun 2008 22:42:44 UT, you wrote: > >Thank you for your nice compliment. If you can't cut and etch one >of these masses, maybe someone with the proper equipment, well, >like Mike Miller in Arizona, would be willing to cut and etch one >of these specimens! It'd be simple and cheap to do a quick and dirty etch-- just sand a flattish surface to bare metal, and apply some circuit board etchant that can be bought at any Radio Shack. I etched some Campo slices with that stuff once, it worked fine. From nicholslarry at yahoo.com Sat Jun 28 19:19:06 2008 From: nicholslarry at yahoo.com (Larry Nichols) Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 16:19:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Impact material? In-Reply-To: <504485.47719.qm@web45111.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <197495.43442.qm@web33403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello Carl, Thanks for your interest. I have posted this to the group as I beleive it is relevant to this topic. Randy also brought up the subject of streak tests. My opinion on this is that they cannot be very reliable since it is well known that ancient iron meteorites and pallasites weather away to hematite, magnetite and iron shale. Please allow me to reference: Wolfe Creek Meteorite Iron Meteorite (IIIB), Medium Octahedrite, Found: 1947, Latitude: 19 Deg 18 Min South, Longitude: 127 Deg 46 Min East, WESTERN AUSTRALIA. Please note: Due to its exposure to the earthen elements for many thousands of years the meteorite iron has changed into hematite and has formed this meteorite shale balls. The material still reacts strongly to the magnet. In the center of some very large shale balls some un-altered iron has been found and an exact analysis of the meteorite at Wolfe Creek could be done. Also: Concerning Wolfe Creek Please note: Due to its many thousands of years exposed to the earthen elements, the meteorite iron has changed into hematite or meteorite shale. Only in very large shale balls tiny bits of un-altered iron has been found so this meteorite could be properly analysed. This meteorite shale is still strongly attracted by the magnet. A specimen not to be missed in any collection. And again Huckita: Huckitta, a stony iron pallasite was found in Australia in 1924. Huckitta is the largest pallasite known, weighing over 1400 kilograms. Virtually all of Huckitta which has been available on the collector market has been extremely oxidized with weathering altering the original nickel iron matrix to hematite and magnetite. So in conclusion, If these are weathered meteorites, a streak test would not be very helpful in determining authenticity. That was my concern for trying to locate a larger mass that may still contain unaltered iron. I thank all of you for the very helpful comments. Best Regards, Larry > > From: Larry Nichols > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Impact material? > To: innocentwolf15 at hotmail.com, > meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Saturday, June 28, 2008, 2:46 PM > > Hello everyone, > > Thanks to all who replied. Sean, I haven't cut and > polished any yet. Simon, > I would be interested in letting you cut and polish a > couple just to see whats > inside. We could talk about it offlist if you're still > interested. If we > have a positive response from this, I will take you're > advise Moni and send > some to UTK and see what we have. Kevin, I'm sure we > can work something out. > Just let me know what youre interested in. BTW I'm > located in southern > Middle Tennessee, about halfway between Nashville and > Huntsville Al. I added a > few photos of some of the other mixed possible impact > material to the album > (possible impact material). Thanks everyone for your > interest. > > http://s27.photobucket.com/albums/c172/TennesseeTreasures/ > > Thanks again, > Best Regards, > Larry Nichols > Lynnville, Tennessee > > > --- On Sat, 6/28/08, kevin decker > wrote: > > > From: kevin decker > > Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Impact material? > > To: nicholslarry at yahoo.com > > Date: Saturday, June 28, 2008, 10:07 AM > > Hi Larry,would you care to part with a couple?..I have > a > > microscope and would like to veiw them under it.just > where > > is Lynnville?I live in north GA,Rossville to be > exact,these > > are the type of rocks I collect.I;ve found lumps like > that > > around here...but mostly smaller in size,I was just > given > > some rocks that came from S.C,and I beleive they are > impact > > related.let me know if you care to sell a > couple,I'm > > always looking for these kinds of things,Thanks, > > Kevin W.L.Decker > > > > > Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 00:18:22 -0700> From: > > nicholslarry at yahoo.com> To: > > meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com> Subject: > > [meteorite-list] Impact material?> > Hello > > Everyone,> > I'm looking for opinions and > input > > on possible impact material or meteorwrongs I've > > collected from one specific location on my property > here in > > Tennessee. They vary greatly in size from a few kgs to > small > > metal and glassy (spherules?) To compare to > meteorites, they > > resemble weathered irons. Some appear to be completely > > altered to hematite and/or magnetite. Some filed > corners do > > have visible metal and attract a magnet. Most are > > aerodynamically shaped shields or nosecones, some with > > obvious flanges. Otherwise they could possibly be some > type > > of splash form of impactite. Some do vary in texture > as if > > mixed with target rock. If these are impact related, > they > > are obviously from an ancient fall (find). Some are > still > > surfacing, but I do get strong readings from my metal > > detector at some depth for iron and nickel in the same > > area. I haven't tried digging any of these targets > yet. > > I thought I would get some opinions before proceeding. > I > > would appreciate any> comments pro or con or > whether > > it's worth digging those deeper targets. I have > > uploaded some photos to a photobucket album:> > > > > http://s27.photobucket.com/albums/c172/TennesseeTreasures/> > > > Thanks for any input.> > Larry Nichols> > > Lynnville, Tennessee From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com Sun Jun 29 12:41:38 2008 From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold) Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 09:41:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] nice unclassified pieces Message-ID: <436559.72184.qm@web57812.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Good morning list.Does anyone have any really,really nice fully crusted unclassified pieces forsale?Flowlines,oriented,nosecones,etc.You all know what I mean.I am looking for some really nice stones.Let me know off list. Steve R.Arnold,chicago,Ill,Usa!! ???? The Asteroid Belt! ??? http://chicagometeorites.net/ ??? Collecting Meteorites since 06/19/1999 ??? Ebay I.D. Illinoismeteorites From bobl at peaktopeak.com Sun Jun 29 12:58:12 2008 From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 10:58:12 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Is this a meteorite In-Reply-To: <692434.6025.qm@web32501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20080629165806.0403110539@mailwash5.pair.com> How about doing a Nickel test on it? It looks very similar to galena to me, but the long bands of metal tell me that it isn't galena. Bob -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Ruben Garcia Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 4:15 PM To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com; David & Kitt Deyarmin Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Is this a meteorite What bad news? You didn't think it looked like this nantan meteorite? http://www.mr-meteorite.com/nantan.htm To me this is the only picture that looked like yours... what did I miss? Ruben Garcia Phoenix, Arizona http://www.mr-meteorite.com http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=meteorfright&p=v --- On Thu, 6/26/08, David & Kitt Deyarmin wrote: > From: David & Kitt Deyarmin > Subject: [meteorite-list] Is this a meteorite > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Thursday, June 26, 2008, 3:04 PM > Thanks for all the replies. > > > I will relay the bad news to my friend > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From bobl at peaktopeak.com Sun Jun 29 13:19:03 2008 From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 11:19:03 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] World's dummest geologist In-Reply-To: <3gv764dogbr7tlom84tm8idr9kdi08d8vh@4ax.com> Message-ID: <20080629171904.540C110574@mailwash5.pair.com> I bet the "Dr." in front of his name means that he is a medical doctor and he just "dabbles" in geology. He knows a lot less about geology, chemistry, earth sciences and astronomy than I do! He probably just wanted to get a paper published to get his name out there and spend as little time doing research as possible. He succeeded! :-) He should definitely not be a writer, at least not in English. Tons of errors. Someone should've edited his paper before it was published. Is the American Chronicle like the National Enquirer? In their Editorial Policy on the About page, it says that they "affirmatively seek articles that promote diversity and tolerance." That explains a lot. :-) Diversity and tolerance are good, but it opens up a can of worms that says "write whatever you want, it doesn't have to be good or real". It's not a trade journal, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised. Regards, Bob "not a Dr." Loeffler -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Darren Garrison Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 2:41 PM To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] World's dummest geologist http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/66318 ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From edeckert at triad.rr.com Sun Jun 29 20:55:30 2008 From: edeckert at triad.rr.com (Ed Deckert) Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 20:55:30 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Is this a meteorite References: <004e01c8d713$133acbf0$832ab841@David> Message-ID: <0c7701c8da4b$feb0c860$6401a8c0@EdDeckertMain> I have seen broken massive pyrite, or large broken cubes that closely resemble this. Galena is another thought, Ed ----- Original Message ----- From: "David & Kitt Deyarmin" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 6:30 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Is this a meteorite >A friend of mine who lives in Germany was given this and was told it was a >meteorite. > > > > http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p298/BobaDebt/Meteorites/Markus.jpg > > > I told him I didn't recognize it as a meteorite bit I figured I would post > here just to be sure. > > Does anyone know what this is? > > Thanks > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Sun Jun 29 22:05:23 2008 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 22:05:23 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 30, 2008 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/June_30_2008.html ___________________ **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) From daistiho at hotmail.com Mon Jun 30 00:35:32 2008 From: daistiho at hotmail.com (tracy latimer) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 04:35:32 +0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] OT -- need a website or data on calibrated spectral data Message-ID: A friend of mine is working with building telescopes, and asked if I could help him find calibrated spectral data on Beta Pegasus and Antares. I'm hoping that with the List's broad array of knowledge, someone out there knows where this data might be found. I don't know how much further he might need the information broken down, so any broad swipe at the info would be fine. If you know of a website or have that information, please e-mail it to me, I would be grateful. Thanks! Tracy Latimer _________________________________________________________________ The i?m Talkathon starts 6/24/08.? For now, give amongst yourselves. http://www.imtalkathon.com?source=TXT_EML_WLH_LearnMore_GiveAmongst From stm at bellsouth.net Mon Jun 30 00:44:10 2008 From: stm at bellsouth.net (Sean T. Murray) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 00:44:10 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] The contest winner is..... References: Message-ID: <0CDF4D68A7CE4931B80CA454471CEC43@platinum> Nice picture on the APOD site this weekend... http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap080628.html Sean Murray IMCA #3138 From stm at bellsouth.net Mon Jun 30 00:49:12 2008 From: stm at bellsouth.net (Sean T. Murray) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 00:49:12 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Oops - bad subject line... References: <0CDF4D68A7CE4931B80CA454471CEC43@platinum> Message-ID: That's what happens when you send email at 1am... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sean T. Murray" To: "Meteorite List" Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 12:44 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The contest winner is..... > Nice picture on the APOD site this weekend... > http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap080628.html > > Sean Murray > IMCA #3138 > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From ks1u at att.net Mon Jun 30 07:00:41 2008 From: ks1u at att.net (George Blahun Jr) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 07:00:41 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] OT -- need a website or data on calibrated spectral data In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <33DD1EEB-123C-489D-908C-0DF0B0A2012B@att.net> Tracy: Hello, if you are looking for the spectral "type" they are as follows: Antares-Spectral Type M1.5Iab-Ib+B4Ve Antares is a Red Giant Beta Pegasus (Pegasi)-Also known as Scheat is also a Red Giant, an irrgular variable, the only info I have on it is spectal type M2. George From grf2 at verizon.net Mon Jun 30 09:10:56 2008 From: grf2 at verizon.net (Jerry) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 09:10:56 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] OT -- need a website or data on calibrated spectral data In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <63BD5BCA27714A9388916B56B71EFA41@Notebook> Tracy, I'd go to: http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/-rhill/spect/spect.html Jerry Flaherty ----- Original Message ----- From: "tracy latimer" To: Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 12:35 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] OT -- need a website or data on calibrated spectral data A friend of mine is working with building telescopes, and asked if I could help him find calibrated spectral data on Beta Pegasus and Antares. I'm hoping that with the List's broad array of knowledge, someone out there knows where this data might be found. I don't know how much further he might need the information broken down, so any broad swipe at the info would be fine. If you know of a website or have that information, please e-mail it to me, I would be grateful. Thanks! Tracy Latimer _________________________________________________________________ The i?m Talkathon starts 6/24/08. For now, give amongst yourselves. http://www.imtalkathon.com?source=TXT_EML_WLH_LearnMore_GiveAmongst ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Mon Jun 30 11:51:16 2008 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 30 Jun 2008 15:51:16 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] Re-2: OT -- need a website or data on calibrated spectral data Message-ID: George wrote: Hello, if you are looking for the spectral "type" they are as follows: Antares-Spectral Type M1.5Iab-Ib+B4Ve Antares is a Red Giant Beta Pegasus (Pegasi)-Also known as Scheat is also a Red Giant, an irrgular variable, the only info I have on it is spectal type M2. Hello George, Tracy, and List, ? Pegasi = Type M2.5II-III Type: Lb (L= slow irregular variable/b = late type giant) Cheers, Bernd To: ks1u at att.net daistiho at hotmail.com Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com From pshugar at clearwire.net Mon Jun 30 11:55:06 2008 From: pshugar at clearwire.net (Pete Shugar) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 10:55:06 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: meteorites for sale Message-ID: <001e01c8dac9$abfd8760$0201a8c0@laptop> Can anyone tell me if this is a valid dealer, or should I just hit delete? No name, and I surely did not contact him first. Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: astronote astronote To: pshugar at clearwire.net Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 5:44 AM Subject: meteorites for sale Hey my friend, it's a long time i didn't offer you pictures of meteorites, here bellow is the link of some nice meteorites that i have for sale, so have a llok and let me know if you like some of them. http://www.flickr.com/photos/28108755 at N02/ don't be hesitate to contact me if you are interesetd in some of them , Best wishes, -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Envoy? avec Yahoo! Mail. Une boite mail plus intelligente. From meteoritefinder at gmail.com Mon Jun 30 11:59:03 2008 From: meteoritefinder at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 08:59:03 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: meteorites for sale In-Reply-To: <001e01c8dac9$abfd8760$0201a8c0@laptop> References: <001e01c8dac9$abfd8760$0201a8c0@laptop> Message-ID: <468bf6050806300859l1aea606dq1a661af79aed9084@mail.gmail.com> Hi Peter I don't know who it is but I received the EXACT same e mail. On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 8:55 AM, Pete Shugar wrote: > Can anyone tell me if this is a valid dealer, or should I just hit delete? > No name, and I surely did not contact him first. > Pete > > ----- Original Message ----- From: astronote astronote > To: pshugar at clearwire.net > Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 5:44 AM > Subject: meteorites for sale > > > Hey my friend, > > it's a long time i didn't offer you pictures of meteorites, here bellow > is the link of some nice meteorites that i have for sale, so have a llok > and let me know if you like some of them. > > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/28108755 at N02/ > > > > don't be hesitate to contact me if you are interesetd in some of them , > > Best wishes, > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Envoy? avec Yahoo! Mail. > Une boite mail plus intelligente. > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- Mike Miller 230 Greenway Dr. Kingman Az 86401 www.meteoritefinder.com 928-753-6825 From meteoritemall at yahoo.com Mon Jun 30 12:05:22 2008 From: meteoritemall at yahoo.com (Ruben Garcia) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 09:05:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: meteorites for sale In-Reply-To: <468bf6050806300859l1aea606dq1a661af79aed9084@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <663332.99215.qm@web32506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I got the same email too. I told him to send me all he has and if I like them I'll mail him money if not I'll send them back. Ruben Garcia Phoenix, Arizona http://www.mr-meteorite.com http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=meteorfright&p=v --- On Mon, 6/30/08, Mike Miller wrote: > From: Mike Miller > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fw: meteorites for sale > To: "Pete Shugar" > Cc: "Met Bul" > Date: Monday, June 30, 2008, 8:59 AM > Hi Peter I don't know who it is but I received the EXACT > same e mail. > > On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 8:55 AM, Pete Shugar > wrote: > > Can anyone tell me if this is a valid dealer, or > should I just hit delete? > > No name, and I surely did not contact him first. > > Pete > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: astronote astronote > > To: pshugar at clearwire.net > > Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 5:44 AM > > Subject: meteorites for sale > > > > > > Hey my friend, > > > > it's a long time i didn't offer you > pictures of meteorites, here bellow > > is the link of some nice meteorites that i have for > sale, so have a llok > > and let me know if you like some of them. > > > > > > > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/28108755 at N02/ > > > > > > > > don't be hesitate to contact me if you are > interesetd in some of them , > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Envoy? avec Yahoo! Mail. > > Une boite mail plus intelligente. > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > -- > Mike Miller 230 Greenway Dr. Kingman Az 86401 > www.meteoritefinder.com > 928-753-6825 > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mmurray at montrose.net Mon Jun 30 15:05:04 2008 From: mmurray at montrose.net (Michael Murray) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 13:05:04 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: meteorites for sale In-Reply-To: <001e01c8dac9$abfd8760$0201a8c0@laptop> References: <001e01c8dac9$abfd8760$0201a8c0@laptop> Message-ID: <85D03084-E24D-4C1A-B104-B0653EE0587B@montrose.net> I too received this email. Mr "M" must be using the Met-List to send his ad to. To Mr. "M" -- I'm not a buyer. I only collect what I find. Mike in CO On Jun 30, 2008, at 9:55 AM, Pete Shugar wrote: > Can anyone tell me if this is a valid dealer, or should I just hit > delete? > No name, and I surely did not contact him first. > Pete > > ----- Original Message ----- From: astronote astronote > To: pshugar at clearwire.net > Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 5:44 AM > Subject: meteorites for sale > > > Hey my friend, > > it's a long time i didn't offer you pictures of meteorites, > here bellow is the link of some nice meteorites that i have for > sale, so have a llok and let me know if you like some of them. > > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/28108755 at N02/ > > > > don't be hesitate to contact me if you are interesetd in some > of them , > > Best wishes, > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > Envoy? avec Yahoo! Mail. > Une boite mail plus intelligente. > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mark.ford at ssl.gb.com Mon Jun 30 15:22:18 2008 From: mark.ford at ssl.gb.com (Mark Ford) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 20:22:18 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Tunguska.. Message-ID: <29A9DB45B84970458190D7D39BD42C4934F58F@gamma.ssl.atw> Tunguska 100 years today ?- deserves a mention! And are we really anywhere further forward explaining it? I wonder. Best, Mark CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us. Email info at ssl.gb.com. You should not copy or use this email or attachment(s) for any purpose nor disclose their contents to any other person. GENERAL STATEMENT: Southern Scientific Ltd's computer systems may be monitored and communications carried on them recorded, to secure the effective operation of the system and for other lawful purposes. Registered address Rectory Farm Rd, Sompting, Lancing, W Sussex BN15 0DP. Company No 1800317 From cynapse at charter.net Mon Jun 30 17:15:43 2008 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 17:15:43 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Tunguska.. In-Reply-To: <29A9DB45B84970458190D7D39BD42C4934F58F@gamma.ssl.atw> References: <29A9DB45B84970458190D7D39BD42C4934F58F@gamma.ssl.atw> Message-ID: On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 20:22:18 +0100, you wrote: > >Tunguska 100 years today ?- deserves a mention! > >And are we really anywhere further forward explaining it? I wonder. In honor of the anniversary, here's a classic book on Tunguska (still some interesting data even if you discount some silly concllusions). http://webpages.charter.net/garrison6328/tmp/ From lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu Mon Jun 30 17:17:59 2008 From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu (lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 14:17:59 -0700 (MST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Tunguska.. In-Reply-To: <29A9DB45B84970458190D7D39BD42C4934F58F@gamma.ssl.atw> References: <29A9DB45B84970458190D7D39BD42C4934F58F@gamma.ssl.atw> Message-ID: <56317.71.226.60.25.1214860679.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> Hi Mark: Yes, but there are still a good number of "far out" theories around. I do a review of a book on the topic for the August issue of Meteorite. Meteorite Hunter by Roy Gallant gives a nice overview of the event. Larry On Mon, June 30, 2008 12:22 pm, Mark Ford wrote: > > Tunguska 100 years today ?- deserves a mention! > > > And are we really anywhere further forward explaining it? I wonder. > > > > Best, > Mark > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: > > > This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential. If you are > not the intended recipient, please notify us. Email info at ssl.gb.com. You > should not copy or use this email or attachment(s) for any purpose nor > disclose their contents to any other person. > > GENERAL STATEMENT: > > > Southern Scientific Ltd's computer systems may be monitored and > communications carried on them recorded, to secure the effective > operation of the system and for other lawful purposes. > > Registered address Rectory Farm Rd, Sompting, Lancing, W Sussex BN15 0DP. > Company No 1800317 > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From dave.carothers at cox.net Mon Jun 30 17:30:48 2008 From: dave.carothers at cox.net (Dave Carothers) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 17:30:48 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] 'Field Guide to Meteors and Meteorites' now Available In-Reply-To: <49597.71.226.60.25.1214331810.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> Message-ID: I'm curious how the shipments have progressed from Amazon. I ordered the "Field Guide" on 21 June and it arrived Saturday, 28 June. Dave -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com]On Behalf Of lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 2:24 PM To: radio_ranch at yahoo.com Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com; Charley Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] 'Field Guide to Meteors and Meteorites' now Available Pat: Great! Thanks Larry On Tue, June 24, 2008 10:36 am, Pat Brown wrote: > I pre-ordered on May 26th and my Amazon account shows that the book > shipped by 2nd day air (I have joined Amazon's Prime program that offers > expedited order fulfillment and 2nd day air shipment on all orders for > $80/yr) on Monday the 23rd and shows expected delivery on Wednesday June > the 25th. > > Best Regards, > Pat > > > --- On Sun, 6/22/08, Charley wrote: > > >> From: Charley >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] "Field Guide to Meteors and Meteorites" >> now Available To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> Date: Sunday, June 22, 2008, 9:32 AM >> Hi all, >> >> >> I ordered mine on Amazon.com when Mike first alerted the >> list (April 15) that the book was soon to be available. The cost was to >> be $25.05 >> (including free shipping and the pre-order discount) . >> About a week and a >> half ago I received an email from Amazon telling me that there was a delay >> and asking me to respond if I was still interested. I responded in the >> affirmative and later received an email from Amazon that the new >> expected date was in late July. I just visited my Amazon order page and >> it shows that the anticipated shipping date is July 21 (and my pre-order >> discount has disappeared). Clicking on the book title takes me to the >> book description page where it is noted that the book is temporarily out >> of stock. >> >> Apparently Amazon is confused. Anyway, I've waited 2 >> months already so what is another month? >> >> It would be interesting to know if anyone actually receives >> the book before July 21. >> >> >> Best regards, >> >> >> Charley >> >> >> "Well, squids don't work. Hey! Let's >> try elephants !" >> >> Hannibal >> >> >> >>> Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 12:05:31 -0400 >>> From: Darren Garrison >>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] "Field Guide to >>> >> Meteors and Meteorites" >> >>> now Available To: Meteorite List >>> >> >> >>> Message-ID: >>> >> >> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >>> >>> >>> On Sat, 21 Jun 2008 08:48:11 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Good Morning- >>>> For those of you waiting- I just got an email at >>>> >> 9:30 this morning >> >>>> from Amazon that my book shipped. The book must >> have been released >>>> and Amazon now has them in. The odd thing was >> yesterday I got an >>>> email from them offering to cancel my order (if I >> didn't respond) as >>>> the delivery date was now undetermined. I'm >> glad I responded to >>>> continue with the order. Have a good day. >>> >>> Coincidentally, I was just looking at that on Amazon a >>> >> few minutes >>> ago, and wondering why nobody had mentioned getting theirs yet >> (release date >> >>> at Amazon is shown as June 6th). >>> >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From midwest at meteorman.org Mon Jun 30 17:36:28 2008 From: midwest at meteorman.org (Timothy Heitz) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 16:36:28 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] 'Field Guide to Meteors and Meteorites' nowAvailable References: Message-ID: <8350F0958F684D84BC7BDBA573048AD0@den> I ordered back in middle of April it arrived today June 30 Cheers, Tim MIDWEST METEORITES - http://www.meteorman.org/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Carothers" To: ; Cc: ; "Charley" Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 4:30 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] 'Field Guide to Meteors and Meteorites' nowAvailable > I'm curious how the shipments have progressed from Amazon. I ordered the > "Field Guide" on 21 June and it arrived Saturday, 28 June. > > Dave > > > -----Original Message----- > From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com]On Behalf Of > lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu > Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 2:24 PM > To: radio_ranch at yahoo.com > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com; Charley > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] 'Field Guide to Meteors and Meteorites' > now Available > > > Pat: > > Great! > > Thanks > > Larry > > On Tue, June 24, 2008 10:36 am, Pat Brown wrote: >> I pre-ordered on May 26th and my Amazon account shows that the book >> shipped by 2nd day air (I have joined Amazon's Prime program that offers >> expedited order fulfillment and 2nd day air shipment on all orders for >> $80/yr) on Monday the 23rd and shows expected delivery on Wednesday June >> the 25th. >> >> Best Regards, >> Pat >> >> >> --- On Sun, 6/22/08, Charley wrote: >> >> >>> From: Charley >>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] "Field Guide to Meteors and Meteorites" >>> now Available To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> Date: Sunday, June 22, 2008, 9:32 AM >>> Hi all, >>> >>> >>> I ordered mine on Amazon.com when Mike first alerted the >>> list (April 15) that the book was soon to be available. The cost was to >>> be $25.05 >>> (including free shipping and the pre-order discount) . >>> About a week and a >>> half ago I received an email from Amazon telling me that there was a > delay >>> and asking me to respond if I was still interested. I responded in the >>> affirmative and later received an email from Amazon that the new >>> expected date was in late July. I just visited my Amazon order page and >>> it shows that the anticipated shipping date is July 21 (and my pre-order >>> discount has disappeared). Clicking on the book title takes me to the >>> book description page where it is noted that the book is temporarily out >>> of stock. >>> >>> Apparently Amazon is confused. Anyway, I've waited 2 >>> months already so what is another month? >>> >>> It would be interesting to know if anyone actually receives >>> the book before July 21. >>> >>> >>> Best regards, >>> >>> >>> Charley >>> >>> >>> "Well, squids don't work. Hey! Let's >>> try elephants !" >>> >>> Hannibal >>> >>> >>> >>>> Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 12:05:31 -0400 >>>> From: Darren Garrison >>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] "Field Guide to >>>> >>> Meteors and Meteorites" >>> >>>> now Available To: Meteorite List >>>> >>> >>> >>>> Message-ID: >>>> >>> >>> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sat, 21 Jun 2008 08:48:11 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Good Morning- >>>>> For those of you waiting- I just got an email at >>>>> >>> 9:30 this morning >>> >>>>> from Amazon that my book shipped. The book must >>> have been released >>>>> and Amazon now has them in. The odd thing was >>> yesterday I got an >>>>> email from them offering to cancel my order (if I >>> didn't respond) as >>>>> the delivery date was now undetermined. I'm >>> glad I responded to >>>>> continue with the order. Have a good day. >>>> >>>> Coincidentally, I was just looking at that on Amazon a >>>> >>> few minutes >>>> ago, and wondering why nobody had mentioned getting theirs yet >>> (release date >>> >>>> at Amazon is shown as June 6th). >>>> >>> >>> >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From cmb62 at columbus.rr.com Mon Jun 30 17:58:08 2008 From: cmb62 at columbus.rr.com (Charley) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 17:58:08 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] 'Field Guide to Meteors and Meteorites' now Available References: Message-ID: <001e01c8dafc$61df0a40$6401a8c0@HAL> Hi all, My copy arrived this past Saturday 6/28. I received an email a couple of days before that it was on the way. Guess the estimated ship date of July 21 was wrong after all. And the book is way cool! I haven't had a chance to read it but I have looked through it a bit and appears to be up to O. Richard Norton's usual high standards. And a lot of the items that were photographed were provided by list members! Mexico Doug's advice that I should email Amazon was dead on- not only did I get the discount but Amazon did ship the book promptly after my complaint. Thanks Doug! Best regards, Charley "Well, squids don't work. Hey! Let's try elephants !" Hannibal Dave Carothers wrote: > I'm curious how the shipments have progressed from Amazon. I ordered > the "Field Guide" on 21 June and it arrived Saturday, 28 June. > > Dave > > > -----Original Message----- > From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com]On Behalf Of > lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu > Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 2:24 PM > To: radio_ranch at yahoo.com > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com; Charley > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] 'Field Guide to Meteors and Meteorites' > now Available > > > Pat: > > Great! > > Thanks > > Larry > > On Tue, June 24, 2008 10:36 am, Pat Brown wrote: >> I pre-ordered on May 26th and my Amazon account shows that the book >> shipped by 2nd day air (I have joined Amazon's Prime program that >> offers expedited order fulfillment and 2nd day air shipment on all >> orders for $80/yr) on Monday the 23rd and shows expected delivery on >> Wednesday June the 25th. >> >> Best Regards, >> Pat >> >> >> --- On Sun, 6/22/08, Charley wrote: >> >> >>> From: Charley >>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] "Field Guide to Meteors and >>> Meteorites" now Available To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> Date: Sunday, June 22, 2008, 9:32 AM >>> Hi all, >>> >>> >>> I ordered mine on Amazon.com when Mike first alerted the >>> list (April 15) that the book was soon to be available. The cost >>> was to be $25.05 >>> (including free shipping and the pre-order discount) . >>> About a week and a >>> half ago I received an email from Amazon telling me that there was >>> a delay and asking me to respond if I was still interested. I >>> responded in the affirmative and later received an email from >>> Amazon that the new expected date was in late July. I just visited >>> my Amazon order page and it shows that the anticipated shipping >>> date is July 21 (and my pre-order discount has disappeared). >>> Clicking on the book title takes me to the book description page >>> where it is noted that the book is temporarily out of stock. >>> >>> Apparently Amazon is confused. Anyway, I've waited 2 >>> months already so what is another month? >>> >>> It would be interesting to know if anyone actually receives >>> the book before July 21. >>> >>> >>> Best regards, >>> >>> >>> Charley >>> >>> >>> "Well, squids don't work. Hey! Let's >>> try elephants !" >>> >>> Hannibal >>> >>> >>> >>>> Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 12:05:31 -0400 >>>> From: Darren Garrison >>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] "Field Guide to >>>> >>> Meteors and Meteorites" >>> >>>> now Available To: Meteorite List >>>> >>> >>> >>>> Message-ID: >>>> >>> >>> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sat, 21 Jun 2008 08:48:11 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Good Morning- >>>>> For those of you waiting- I just got an email at >>>>> >>> 9:30 this morning >>> >>>>> from Amazon that my book shipped. The book must >>> have been released >>>>> and Amazon now has them in. The odd thing was >>> yesterday I got an >>>>> email from them offering to cancel my order (if I >>> didn't respond) as >>>>> the delivery date was now undetermined. I'm >>> glad I responded to >>>>> continue with the order. Have a good day. >>>> >>>> Coincidentally, I was just looking at that on Amazon a >>>> >>> few minutes >>>> ago, and wondering why nobody had mentioned getting theirs yet >>>> (release date >>> >>>> at Amazon is shown as June 6th). >>>> >>> >>> >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoritemall at yahoo.com Mon Jun 30 19:42:31 2008 From: meteoritemall at yahoo.com (Ruben Garcia) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 16:42:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Canyon Dibalo for sale-Lots, Individuals, Graphite Nodules! Message-ID: <850586.44818.qm@web32503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi all, I have some pretty inexpensive Canyon Diablo meteorites for sale! Cheaper than anywhere else i've seen... "Individuals" http://www.mr-meteorite.com/canyondiablo4sale.htm "Uncleaned Lots" http://www.mr-meteorite.com/canyondlots4sale.htm Graphite Nodules http://www.mr-meteorite.com/canyondgraphite4sale.htm Paypal, check or money order - all are fine! Email for larger photos or questions. Ruben Garcia Phoenix, Arizona http://www.mr-meteorite.com http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=meteorfright&p=v From bolidechaser at yahoo.com Mon Jun 30 21:27:04 2008 From: bolidechaser at yahoo.com (Robert Verish) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 18:27:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Rob Matson finds his 76th comet - it's #1500 for SOHO Message-ID: <391913.33472.qm@web51707.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hey Rob, Congratulations on your 76th comet discovery!! Okay, Rob, I know that you've found more than 76 comets (but just like with meteorites, it's just the ones that get published that they count;-) but in any case, it must be a real hoot to have one of your "kids" be tagged as "SOHO's 1500th Comet Discovery". Way to go homey, Bob V. ------------------------------------------------ [meteorite-list] SOHO Discovers Its 1500th Comet Rob Matson mojave_meteorites at cox.net Fri Jun 27 22:39:42 EDT 2008 * Previous message: [meteorite-list] SOHO Discovers Its 1500th Comet * Next message: [meteorite-list] SOHO Discovers Its 1500th Comet * Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] Hi All, Re: SOHO discovers its 1500th comet European Space Agency 27 June 2008 http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEMB94SHKHF_index_0.html Karl Battams at NRL e-mailed me Thursday morning to tell me the good news: that my Kreutz comet find Wednesday evening turned out to be SOHO's 1500th (and #76 for me): http://ares.nrl.navy.mil/sungrazer/index.php?p=latest_news As I told Karl, I knew the count was getting quite close to 1500, but didn't want to jinx myself by reading through the pages of recent confirmed discoveries to see exactly how close! --Rob From meteoritemall at yahoo.com Mon Jun 30 21:32:36 2008 From: meteoritemall at yahoo.com (Ruben Garcia) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 18:32:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Rob Matson finds his 76th comet - it's #1500 for SOHO In-Reply-To: <391913.33472.qm@web51707.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <826557.69090.qm@web32501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Thats AWESOME Rob!! Congratulations! Ruben Garcia Phoenix, Arizona http://www.mr-meteorite.com http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=meteorfright&p=v --- On Mon, 6/30/08, Robert Verish wrote: > From: Robert Verish > Subject: [meteorite-list] Rob Matson finds his 76th comet - it's #1500 for SOHO > To: "Meteoritecentral List" , "Rob Matson" > Cc: "Meteor Observers" > Date: Monday, June 30, 2008, 6:27 PM > Hey Rob, > > Congratulations on your 76th comet discovery!! > > Okay, Rob, I know that you've found more than 76 comets > (but just like with meteorites, it's just the ones that > get published that they count;-) > > but in any case, it must be a real hoot to have one of your > "kids" be tagged as "SOHO's 1500th Comet > Discovery". > > Way to go homey, > Bob V. > > ------------------------------------------------ > [meteorite-list] SOHO Discovers Its 1500th Comet > Rob Matson mojave_meteorites at cox.net > Fri Jun 27 22:39:42 EDT 2008 > > * Previous message: [meteorite-list] SOHO Discovers Its > 1500th Comet > * Next message: [meteorite-list] SOHO Discovers Its > 1500th Comet > * Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ > author ] > > Hi All, > > Re: > > SOHO discovers its 1500th comet > European Space Agency > 27 June 2008 > > http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEMB94SHKHF_index_0.html > > Karl Battams at NRL e-mailed me Thursday morning to tell me > the good > news: that my Kreutz comet find Wednesday evening turned > out to be > SOHO's 1500th (and #76 for me): > > http://ares.nrl.navy.mil/sungrazer/index.php?p=latest_news > > As I told Karl, I knew the count was getting quite close to > 1500, but > didn't want to jinx myself by reading through the pages > of recent > confirmed discoveries to see exactly how close! --Rob > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From geoking at notkin.net Mon Jun 30 22:14:54 2008 From: geoking at notkin.net (Notkin) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 19:14:54 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Rob Matson finds his 76th comet - it's #1500 for SOHO In-Reply-To: <391913.33472.qm@web51707.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <391913.33472.qm@web51707.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Not only is that Rob Matson a great meteorite hunter and comet discoverer, he is one cool dude! And brainy too. When is the biopic coming out? : ) Congrats to you Rob. Your pal in Tucson, Geoff N. www.aerolite.org From meteoritemall at yahoo.com Mon Jun 30 22:28:09 2008 From: meteoritemall at yahoo.com (Ruben Garcia) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 19:28:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Canyon Diablo is sold!!! In-Reply-To: <850586.44818.qm@web32503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <924095.83464.qm@web32508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Thanks all, Ruben Garcia Phoenix, Arizona http://www.mr-meteorite.com http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=meteorfright&p=v --- On Mon, 6/30/08, Ruben Garcia wrote: > From: Ruben Garcia > Subject: [meteorite-list] Canyon Dibalo for sale-Lots, Individuals, Graphite Nodules! > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Monday, June 30, 2008, 4:42 PM > Hi all, > I have some pretty inexpensive Canyon Diablo meteorites for > sale! Cheaper than anywhere else i've seen... > > "Individuals" > http://www.mr-meteorite.com/canyondiablo4sale.htm > > "Uncleaned Lots" > http://www.mr-meteorite.com/canyondlots4sale.htm > > Graphite Nodules > http://www.mr-meteorite.com/canyondgraphite4sale.htm > > Paypal, check or money order - all are fine! > Email for larger photos or questions. > > Ruben Garcia > Phoenix, Arizona > http://www.mr-meteorite.com > http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=meteorfright&p=v > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From debfred at att.net Mon Jun 30 22:51:13 2008 From: debfred at att.net (debfred at att.net) Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2008 02:51:13 +0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD- 10th year on ebay Gibeon sale Message-ID: <070120080251.13652.48699BA1000A55080000355422218865869B0A02D29B9B0EBF0B0A9D000D0A0B@att.net> Dear List, I have listed a nice sculpted gibeon to celebrate 10 years of selling meteorites on ebay. Have a look if interested. Regards Fred Olsen http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220252268544 From webbth1 at yahoo.com Mon Jun 30 23:12:28 2008 From: webbth1 at yahoo.com (Thomas Webb) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 20:12:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: Tunguska Article Message-ID: <350000.77764.qm@web36201.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- On Mon, 6/30/08, Thomas Webb wrote: > From: Thomas Webb > Subject: Tunguska Article > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Monday, June 30, 2008, 10:06 PM > List members, > Here is a link to an article about the Tunguska event from > BBC > news.?http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7470283.stm?? > Does anyone have any thoughts or ideas on the Lake Cheko > hypothesis? > Thomas