From pshugar at clearwire.net  Wed Apr  1 00:18:33 2009
From: pshugar at clearwire.net (Pete Shugar)
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 23:18:33 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Re meteor showers
Message-ID: <03BF87818B9C4F419D50E81C46F27A70@laptop>

I did a presentation to the Boy Scout troop tonight
and the question was asked about regular meteor showers.
I am not up on those.
Does anyone have a list of the major shower dates and
their names?
Pete


From cynapse at charter.net  Wed Apr  1 02:19:35 2009
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 01:19:35 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] List member has bad day
In-Reply-To: <BD17CBC1BCA5438EA18218764005C918@Keith2>
References: <BD17CBC1BCA5438EA18218764005C918@Keith2>
Message-ID: <4p16t4hms0tfr5q2a0g9s7a5lh7bdlst7o@4ax.com>

http://www.thetruecitizen.com/news/2009/0401/front_page/004.html

From gsac at gmx.net  Wed Apr  1 05:55:49 2009
From: gsac at gmx.net (Alexander Seidel)
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 11:55:49 +0200
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rare Meteorite Books on eBay
In-Reply-To: <e51421550903311907h1af6dad1ib9737e87178a0bff@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e51421550903311907h1af6dad1ib9737e87178a0bff@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090401095549.230890@gmx.net>

> http://stores.shop.ebay.com/Meteorite-Books__W0QQ_armrsZ1 
> I'm not sure who this seller is, maybe it's a list member, but has
> anyone else noticed some of the rare meteorite titles...

The seller is Edwin Thompson, also known as "E.T." by some.
He maintained or still maintains one of the biggest private
collections of meteorite books on Earth, well, may be it *is*
the biggest, but I am not sure. Honest collector and dealer!

Yes, he first tried to sell the whole collection at once for
a reasonable price, but now seems to sell the books on an
individual basis. Well, some priced quite a bit on the high 
end, but then again you may talk to him...

Alex
Berlin/Germany


From ensoramanda at ntlworld.com  Wed Apr  1 06:17:10 2009
From: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com (ensoramanda at ntlworld.com)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 11:17:10 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rare Meteorite Books on eBay
In-Reply-To: <20090401095549.230890@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <20090401111710.HP6RY.118360.root@web04-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com>

Well worth visiting ET's room at the Tucson show...great guy and mixes a mean margarita. I seem to remember a huge Camel Donga there when I visited which I was very tempted by.

Hope he's still around next year.

Graham Ensor...UK
 
---- Alexander Seidel <gsac at gmx.net> wrote: 
> > http://stores.shop.ebay.com/Meteorite-Books__W0QQ_armrsZ1 
> > I'm not sure who this seller is, maybe it's a list member, but has
> > anyone else noticed some of the rare meteorite titles...
> 
> The seller is Edwin Thompson, also known as "E.T." by some.
> He maintained or still maintains one of the biggest private
> collections of meteorite books on Earth, well, may be it *is*
> the biggest, but I am not sure. Honest collector and dealer!
> 
> Yes, he first tried to sell the whole collection at once for
> a reasonable price, but now seems to sell the books on an
> individual basis. Well, some priced quite a bit on the high 
> end, but then again you may talk to him...
> 
> Alex
> Berlin/Germany
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com  Wed Apr  1 06:35:58 2009
From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 06:35:58 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - April 1, 2009
Message-ID: <c1a.55c2b63d.37049d8e@aol.com>

http://www.rocksfromspace.org/April_1_2009.html






__________________________   

**************New Low Prices on Dell Laptops ? Starting at $399 
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220631247x1201390185/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubl
eclick.net%2Fclk%3B213540506%3B35046329%3Bx)

From pierremariepele at yahoo.fr  Wed Apr  1 06:47:40 2009
From: pierremariepele at yahoo.fr (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Pel=E9_Pierre-Marie?=)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 10:47:40 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - April 1, 2009
Message-ID: <998231.18070.qm@web23006.mail.ird.yahoo.com>


Hello ;-)

Nice April's Fool, 


      

From mark.ford at ssl.gb.com  Wed Apr  1 07:51:20 2009
From: mark.ford at ssl.gb.com (Mark Ford)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 12:51:20 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] Governmentium - a new heavy element
Message-ID: <29A9DB45B84970458190D7D39BD42C4956C473@gamma.ssl.atw>


Scientists Discover Heaviest Element known to mankind!

The new element, Governmentium (Gv), has one neutron, 25 assistant neutrons, 
88 deputy neutrons, and 198 assistant deputy neutrons, giving it an atomic 
mass of 312.

These 312 particles are held together by forces called morons, which are 
surrounded by vast quantities of lepton-like particles called peons.

Since Governmentium has no electrons, it is inert; however, it can be 
detected, because it impedes every reaction with which it comes into 
contact.

A tiny amount of Governmentium can cause a reaction that would normally take 
less than a second, to take from four days to four years to complete.

Governmentium has a normal half-life of 2- 6 years; It does not decay, but 
instead undergoes a reorganization in which a portion of the assistant 
neutrons and deputy neutrons exchange places. In fact, Governmentium's mass 
will actually increase over time, since each reorganization will cause more 
morons to become neutrons, forming isodopes.

This characteristic of moron promotion leads some scientists to believe that 
Governmentium is formed whenever morons reach a critical concentration.. 
This hypothetical quantity is referred to as critical morass.

When catalysed with money, Governmentium becomes Administratium, an element 
that radiates just as much energy as Governmentium since it has half as many 
peons but twice as many morons.
 



CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: 

This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us. Email info at ssl.gb.com. You should not copy or use this email or attachment(s) for any purpose nor disclose their contents to any other person. 

GENERAL STATEMENT:

Southern Scientific Ltd?s computer systems may be monitored and communications carried on them recorded, to secure the effective operation of the system and for other lawful purposes.

Registered address Rectory Farm Rd, Sompting, Lancing, W Sussex BN15 0DP. Company No 1800317



From drtanuki at yahoo.com  Wed Apr  1 07:58:49 2009
From: drtanuki at yahoo.com (drtanuki)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 04:58:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] meteorite news -2 arrested
Message-ID: <535231.21171.qm@web53209.mail.re2.yahoo.com>


Dear List,
  According to an article in a newspaper two meteorite hunters were arrested. 

http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.com/

Dirk Ross...Tokyo

From marcin at meteoryty.pl  Wed Apr  1 08:38:49 2009
From: marcin at meteoryty.pl (Marcin Cimala - PolandMET)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 14:38:49 +0200
Subject: [meteorite-list] Mr Nelson Oakes
References: <DIIE.00000056000039EC@paulinet.de>
Message-ID: <047301c9b2c6$ce7ff1d0$0d00000a@polandmezrd5i9>

Hi List
Nelson Your email dont work for me, please contact me.



-----[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-----[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]-----
http://www.Meteoryty.pl             marcin(at)meteoryty.pl
http://www.PolandMET.com       marcin(at)meteorite.pl
http://www.Gao-Guenie.com      GSM: +48 (793) kosmos
--------[ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society ]--------


From rocks at projectargus.com  Wed Apr  1 09:03:24 2009
From: rocks at projectargus.com (rocks at projectargus.com)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 09:03:24 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fireballs From The Sky: Bombarded
In-Reply-To: <13182325.21238529098806.JavaMail.root@wombat.diezmil.com>
References: <13182325.21238529098806.JavaMail.root@wombat.diezmil.com>
Message-ID: <A720D05FDE1E44AFA01B7E426A26E3D1@NoahLaptop>

I never said there was only 1 bolide event per month.  I said there was 
roughly 1 confirmed meteorite event per month.  I don't know much about 
bolide stats, so I should leave this discussion to the experts.  I was just 
pointing out that we haven't had an unreasonably high number of meteorite 
falls.  Yes, it has been a good meteorite fall rate - but still within 
normal range, as far as I can tell.  (And yes, I think the "normal range" is 
slowly increasing each year due to the effects I mentioned...)

You wrote: "to a great extend this increase can be due to the reasons you 
mention (more people having internet, higher meteor popularity etc), but can 
you prove that ALL the increase can be attributed to that?"

Unfortunately, this is difficult to measure.  However, I'd say the burden of 
proof lies with those proposing that we are travelling through a debris 
field.  You make some very good points, and I will have to give this some 
thought.  The all sky survey data you mention is very interesting!

--Noah


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <daphnelwest at gmail.com>
To: <rocks at projectargus.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 3:51 PM
Subject: Re: Re: [meteorite-list] Fireballs From The Sky: Bombarded


seems to me there is more than 1 bolide event per month:

jan 17 DANISH FIREBALL: A meteoroid of unknown size hit Earth's atmosphere 
over Danmark and Sweden last night (Jan. 17 at 1909 UT) and exploded, 
turning the sky "lightning blue and green."
  http://spaceweather.com/glossary/fireballreports_17jan09.htm?PHPSESSID=jidr0p3on59h9u4ah10776l4i0
jan 17 another Fireball in northern Spain came in only minutes before the 
danish one.
  http://www.spmn.uji.es/ESP/SPMNlist.html
jan 19 California A  brilliant fireball occurring over southern California. 
The event occurred at 5:33pm PST on January 18 (01:33 UT Jan 19) and was 
widely observed over the southern half of California, western Nevada, and 
western Arizona (including the Phoenix area).
  http://malcs64.tigblog.org/?setlangcookie=true
jan 19 Norway FIREBALL UPDATE: "Today, on Monday, Jan. 19th at 16:28 UT, a 
huge fireball was seen in western Norway," reports Runar Sandnes of the 
Norwegian Astronomical Society. "It was visible for about 5 seconds and 
witnesses describe it as 'breathtaking.' The meteor was last seen 
disintegrating over the North Sea."
  http://talk.livedaily.com/showthread.php?p=14461677
  http://www.nas-veven.no/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=116:kraftig-meteor-observert-pa-vestlandet&catid=3:nyhetsmelding
Jan 20 2045 MST Barbara & Paul Weber Etna Wyoming  Magnitude >-27 duration 8 
sec   color White
  http://www.amsmeteors.org/fireball/fireball_log2009.html
jan 22 Australia 22/01/09 11:31 pm Just saw a huge Meteor/Meteorite in the 
sky. It was fast moving but it probably lasted about 4-5secs before it fell 
out of view behind the next door neighbors house. It was absolutely amazing. 
It was huge I could see it pulsating a greeny/yellow color as it fragmented 
and burned up in the atmosphere.
  http://forums.ski.com.au/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=585335
jan 23 Massachusetts and Rhode Island Observers are reporting a "huge, 
pulsating blue-green fireball" sighted within minutes of 8:48 pm EST on Jan. 
23rd. It was bright enough to be seen through heavy cloud cover, according 
to one witness.
  http://www.spaceweather.com/archive.php?view=1&day=24&month=01&year=2009
jan 27 USA San Francisco  I spotted something falling last night at about 
9:55pm, facing south.
  http://transientsky.wordpress.com/2009/01/25/jan-2425-meteors/
jan 28 USA Nebraska The color was red/yellow and I think mostly from the 
fire that was surrounding it. There was also a short tail of fire following.
  http://www.ufostalker.com/?eventId=15263
  www.examiner.com/r-6141753~Flaming_fireball_from_the_sky.html
jan 29 USA Illinois 11:00 p.m., I was outside on my deck and witnessed 
something in the sky that completely blew me away. I described it to my 
husband as a huge falling star that had a very long and bright tail.
  http://transientsky.wordpress.com/2009/01/27/jan-252627-meteors/

feb 9 Hawaii  Fireball lights up sky and causes jaws to drop  Joanna 
Spofford, walking with her 3-year-old daughter in Kalama Valley, said, "It 
was the scariest thing in the world."
  http://www.starbulletin.com/news/20090220_Fireball_lights_up_sky_and_causes_jaws_to_drop.html
Feb 10 Canada BC At about 4:30 p.m., an extremely bright, starlike object 
appeared in the sky over the Northern or Central Okanagan, which was seen 
from as far south as Okanagan Falls, south of Penticton.
  http://www.bclocalnews.com/okanagan_similkameen/keremeosreview/lifestyles/39747958.html
Feb 13 USA Kentucky, people in central Kentucky heard loud booms, felt their 
houses shake, and saw a fireball streaking through the sky.
  http://www.counton2.com/cbd/news/local/article/fireball_spotted_streaking_across_sky_in_summerville/20791/
Feb 13 Italy  another fireball at least 10 times brighter than a full Moon 
lit up the sky over Italy.
  http://www.spaceweather.com/archive.php?view=1&day=16&month=02&year=2009
Feb 14 Argentina  A fireball was seen in two entire provinces 600 kilometers 
from north to south and some 500 from east to west. It had white light that 
turned to blue and finally to greenish blue, with an approximate duration of 
between 5 to 10 seconds. Some witnesses - not all - report hearing a 
detonation."
  http://inexplicata.blogspot.com/2009_02_01_archive.html
Feb 15 USA Texas, A daylight fireball over Texas on Sunday, Feb. 15th, 
Researchers have studied video of the event and concluded that the object 
was likely a natural meteoroid about one meter wide traveling more than 20 
km/s?much faster than orbital debris.
  http://www.counton2.com/cbd/news/local/article/fireball_spotted_streaking_across_sky_in_summerville/20791/
Feb 20 USA MA Nantucket Island  Terry Galschneider was up early watching 
television when she said a dramatic orange fireball ?lit up the sky? for 
five seconds.
  http://www.ack.net/022609fireball.html
Feb 21 Houston Texas  Daylight meteor caught by accident on handicam
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjt3d-wA6dw&NR=1
Feb 24 vafb California  probably not a bolide; nice footage anyway
  http://www.sbig.com/allsky/VAFB/VAFBCarbonObservatory.gif
Feb 26 Anderson, California  It occurred at 4 a.m. Feb. 26 outside their 
cottage on Frances Street in Cottonwood."There was a loud explosion and 
bright light," Orsot said."It was a big kaboom," said Leroy Bolls, the 
couple's next-door neighbor. "Like a sonic boom, but real close."
  http://www.andersonvalleypost.com/news/2009/mar/17/unidentified-object-from-sky-hits-vehicle-in/?partner=RSS
Feb 27 Yuba City California
  http://www.geocities.com/stange34 at sbcglobal.net/2009more.html

Mar 1 Zimbabwe Africa  A large rock mysteriously falls from the sky in Nkayi 
village,  The rock was heard in the entire Lukampa area as well as Matshena, 
Mbuma and Nkalathi areas. The rock weighs 15kg and is black and very smooth 
outside. It is grey inside. The object could be a meteorite that dropped to 
earth from outer space.
  http://www.zimdiaspora.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=894:a-large-rock-mysteriously-falls-from-the-sky-in-zimbabwes-nkayi-village&catid=38:travel-tips&Itemid=274
Mar 5 Holland  Europe  Klaas Jobse was the fortunate imager of this 
fireball, using his automated all-sky camera system. Unfortunately, sky 
conditions there were rather poor - you can see how cloudy it was for Klaas 
on this image here - so it is probably a measure of the event's brilliance 
that it was recorded at all!
  http://cyclops.klaasjobse.nl/jcms/showpic.php?img=453_20090305_0254UT_web_w658h600.jpg
Mar 6 Holland another the next night.
  http://cyclops.klaasjobse.nl/jcms/showpic.php?img=454_20090306_0214UT_web_w658h600.jpg
Mar 7 Westchester NY  The loud boom heard throughout southern Westchester 
early yesterday morning might have been a meteor crashing through the 
atmosphere at thousands of miles per hour.
Liz Holland, who lives atop a ridge in Mount Kisco, said she happened to be 
looking out a south window around 12:30 a.m. and saw on the horizon a 
brilliant yellow object streaking through the sky in a downward arc.
"It was pretty bright," she said. "It wasn't huge, but bigger than a 
shooting star, like a thick piece of string."
  http://lohud.com/article/20090308/NEWS02/903080385/-1/SPORTS
Mar 10 Rockland NY  Another mystery boom wakes people in region; Witness 
report: I went to work just before 5:15 and pulled out of my driveway and 
drove less then 100 yards when suddenly a light flashed for about 2 seconds. 
THIS LIGHT WAS BRIGHT AS THE MIDDLE OF THE DAY. Immediatly after the light 
was gone, i heard the boom and my car shook violently, and my tires crazily 
vibrated.
  http://www.lohud.com/article/20090310/NEWS02/903100356/1018/news02
Mar 11 Indonesia Daylight fireball
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zt2X_P455yk&feature=related
Mar 20 Georgia/Carolinas  Morning boom probably meteor, USC-Aiken astronomer 
says. Dr. Gary Senn, director of the Dupont Planetarium in the Ruth Patrick 
Science Education Center at USC Aiken, says it was a large meteor, 
technically called a bolide.
He said people have reported the sound to be like a clap of thunder. 
Sightings were of a large fireball in the sky.
  http://chronicle.augusta.com/stories/latest/lat_500783.shtml
Mar 22 Tasmania  Australia  THE source of a long trail of lights seen by 
many Tasmanians speeding across the sky yesterday afternoon remained unknown 
last night."For an object to be this bright, it would typically need to have 
the mass of a few kilograms.
  "I understand it was seen for up to about nine seconds which is unusually 
long for a meteor, but not unknown.
  http://www.themercury.com.au/article/2009/03/22/62721_todays-news.html
Mar 24 Hawaii Ewa Beach by Westloch Fairways. Fireball lights up sky. At 
approximately 9:15 p.m. Saw the same type of thing (as the feb 9 Hawaii 
event) on that evening, heading in approximately that same direction and 
angle.
  http://www.topix.com/forum/science/T1PMGN78HPT6KJDGH
  (feb 9 event:)
  http://www.starbulletin.com/news/20090220_Fireball_lights_up_sky_and_causes_jaws_to_drop.html
Mar 29 Virginia  US: Multiple Eyewitness Reports of Fireball Sightings off 
Atlantic Coast. at approximately 9:45 pm EDT, people along the Atlantic 
coast of the USA between Maryland and North Carolina witnessed bright lights 
in the sky and heard thunderous rumbles. It was probably a meteoritic 
fireball--a small, random asteroid entering Earth's atmosphere and 
exploding.
  http://www.sott.net/articles/show/180387-US-Multiple-Eyewitness-Reports-of-Fireball-Sightings-off-Atlantic-Coast
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzGg1awug3Q

There are 3 reasons why I think there is indeed an increase in occurancies:
1)The amsmeteors site shows a steady increase in reported fireballs over the 
past 4 years.
http://www.amsmeteors.org/fireballs.html
and to a great extend this increase can be due to the reasons you mention 
(more people having internet, higher meteor popularity etc), but can you 
prove that ALL the increase can be attributed to that?

2)This spanish site uses the same allsky camera viewing set since 2005 and 
also shows an increase in sightings (scroll down to bottom);
http://www.spmn.uji.es/ESP/SPMNlist.html
Events brighter than mag -10:
2005  5
2006  3
2007  11
2008  27

3)Matthias B?rmann already posted this (in German)
http://www.sueddeutsche.de/wissen/678/462297/text/
which he kindly summarized in:
"Refering to Nasa expert David Morrison an increasing accumulation of
meteoritical material in the mud-layer at the deep sea bottom proves that
our solar system passes through a region of denser space-traffic during the
last few years."

Any comments on these supposed proofs for the increase are welcome.

Daphne






-- rocks wrote :
It looks like we're on track to have one meteorite per month:

Oct. Sudan (2008 TC3)
Nov. Buzzard Coulee
Dec. Tamdakht
Jan. Denmark
Feb. West
Mar. Augusta, GA?

One per month is a great fall rate, and I hope they keep coming!  Still, I
don't think this activity is high enough to support your theory of a debris
cloud.  Notice that the 5 most recent confirmed falls have been 5 different
types: Sudan is ureilite, Buzzard Coulee is H4, Tamdakht is H5, Denmark is a
carbonaceous chondrite, and West is L6.  How would your theory support such
a variety of incoming material?

My theory: more fireballs and meteorites are getting reported, but that
doesn't necessarily mean more fireballs and meteorites are occuring.  I'd
like to make 4 points:

1.  Each year, the Earth's population increases.
2.  More people are learning about what meteorites are, thanks to mainstream
TV shows on the History Channel, etc.
3.  More people are learning that meteorites are worth big $$$, thanks to
news coverage.
4.  Each year, more and more people are getting connected to the internet.

Put all of this together, and you have: more people + more awareness + more
motivation + a global way to get news out.  Personally, I think this
explains the higher number of fireballs and witnessed falls getting reported
each year.

I'd like to know what others think about this.

I'd also say that over the past year or two, the meteorite collecting
community has become much more focused on witnessed falls and hammers.  This
means we're not letting any suspected falls get overlooked.  If this Georgia
fireball had happened a few years ago, would it have gotten this much
attention on the list?

All the best-
--Noah


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Meteorites USA" <eric at mete...>
To: <meteorite-list at mete...>
Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 11:22 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fireballs From The Sky: Bombarded


> Over the past few months or so I've been tracking many fireball sightings
> and suspected new falls all over the world. Recently we've had no fewer
> than 4 right here in the United States. Not to mention the Denmark fall,
> Tamdaught, West, Westchester, Augusta, Sacramento, and the Merced
> Fireball. And the largest meteorite fall in Canadian history Buzzard
> Coulee! I'm sure I'm forgetting some.
>
> Now another big event near MD, VA area:
> http://www.wtop.com/?nid=600&sid=1636442
> <http://www.wtop.com/?nid=600&sid=1636442>
>
> I asked this a week or so ago, but got very little response other than
> "yeah sure".
>
> Isn't this abnormally high meteor activity? Is our planet traveling
> through a large field of asteroidal space debris right now? How can some
> many fireballs and meteorite falls happen in such a short period of time
> unless this were the case?
>
> Regards,
> Eric Wichman
> Meteorites USA
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at mete...
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at mete...
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


--
This message was sent on behalf of daphnelwest at gmail.com at 
openSubscriber.com
http://www.opensubscriber.com/message/meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com/11810716.html 


From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com  Wed Apr  1 10:13:05 2009
From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 07:13:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] nwa 1794
Message-ID: <385942.61455.qm@web57801.mail.re3.yahoo.com>


Hi again list,and?no ad.I see there is only 398 grams of NWA 1794.But I see there is also more material out there.Did they find more later,and if they did,what is the latest TKW?Also last week was a prequel to this day.APRIL FOOL'S DAY!!I am going no where.Have a great day and keep finding our passion.
?
Steve R.Arnold No#1!,Chicago!
<a rel="nofollow"></a> 


      

From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com  Wed Apr  1 11:36:51 2009
From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 08:36:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] meteorite news -2 arrested
Message-ID: <17769.75737.qm@web110607.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>


Huh, good thing I am not involved. Getting permission to hunt is always a good idea. Best of luck to the guys in this matter though.
Michael Farmer

--- On Wed, 4/1/09, drtanuki <drtanuki at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: drtanuki <drtanuki at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] meteorite news -2 arrested
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Wednesday, April 1, 2009, 5:58 AM
> 
> Dear List,
> ? According to an article in a newspaper two meteorite
> hunters were arrested. 
> 
> http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.com/
> 
> Dirk Ross...Tokyo
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 

From cynapse at charter.net  Wed Apr  1 12:44:37 2009
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 11:44:37 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Good Astronomy (the shape of an NEA)
In-Reply-To: <03BF87818B9C4F419D50E81C46F27A70@laptop>
References: <03BF87818B9C4F419D50E81C46F27A70@laptop>
Message-ID: <ne67t4lviboaatt8iv3msfe9c5c12929te@4ax.com>

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/03/31/a-good-look-at-a-near-earth-visitor/

From yellowengine at earthlink.net  Wed Apr  1 11:49:02 2009
From: yellowengine at earthlink.net (RJP)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 09:49:02 -0600 (GMT-06:00)
Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA 1974 (..and false claim)
Message-ID: <12356574.1238600942693.JavaMail.root@mswamui-bichon.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

So you posted a fake AD, claiming that bills were piling up, you were out of work, and that your relationship with your wife was becoming unstable. You then posted a sales AD (and page) with things that you simply no longer wanted for your collection anymore, marked the prices down a couple of times, and stated that this was the end of the road for you on the met list. You probably received a handful of sympathetic emails in regards to your post, and now you say that it was an early April fools joke?  Further more, I inquired about your 50g Berduc off-list, and the price that you quoted me ($1270) was marked up more than 100% from the price that was posted just a couple of days ago on on your sales page!

Don't you think that maybe all of this was in poor taste, especially with the jobless rate at an all time high, and the economy at an all time low in years? I simply see it as a tacky, tasteless scheme. 

Wondering, with regards...

Ryan
  

 
"Hi again list,and no ad.I see there is only 398 grams of NWA 1794.But I see there is also more material out there.Did they find more later,and if they did,what is the latest TKW?Also last week was a prequel to this day.APRIL FOOL'S DAY!!I am going no where.Have a great day and keep finding our passion."

From cynapse at charter.net  Wed Apr  1 13:01:03 2009
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 12:01:03 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] A scary story about a near fireball
In-Reply-To: <535231.21171.qm@web53209.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <535231.21171.qm@web53209.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8e77t4pfekobfofps4prkkc5mc7gfbp5al@4ax.com>

http://www.spaceflightnow.com/shuttle/sts119/090327sts27/

From stm at bellsouth.net  Wed Apr  1 12:13:57 2009
From: stm at bellsouth.net (Sean T. Murray)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 12:13:57 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] nwa 1794
In-Reply-To: <385942.61455.qm@web57801.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
References: <385942.61455.qm@web57801.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <40E9F82ED5A0492B9C8FF46E8EB5D7DB@Platinum2>

Ok - it's official - that is the worst April Fool's hoax.  Ever.
Next year you should claim to have an incurable disease, and then tell us 
it's not true.  It'll be a gas.

Unless... maybe Steve #1's saying that last week was a prequel to April 
fools, IS his april fools joke...Only time will tell.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "steve arnold" <stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 10:13 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] nwa 1794



Hi again list,and no ad.I see there is only 398 grams of NWA 1794.But I see 
there is also more material out there.Did they find more later,and if they 
did,what is the latest TKW?Also last week was a prequel to this day.APRIL 
FOOL'S DAY!!I am going no where.Have a great day and keep finding our 
passion.

Steve R.Arnold No#1!,Chicago!
<a rel="nofollow"></a>



______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 


From geoking at notkin.net  Wed Apr  1 13:00:43 2009
From: geoking at notkin.net (Notkin)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 10:00:43 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Announcing "Meteorite Men" the TV Show
Message-ID: <033B40E8-69C0-430C-8DE9-AA91D47C9BA4@notkin.net>

Dear Listees:

As a few of you already know Steve Arnold #1 and I have been working  
on a major new TV project for over a year. It is a one-hour special  
for the Science Channel: "Meteorite Men."

This is a significant step up from the previous TV work we've done. It  
is a big budget production with plenty of action, adventure and, of  
course, a little goofing around. I was recently in Burbank, CA to see  
the final cut of the show and we are thrilled with the results. Steve  
and I returned to the Brenham site for location filming, and also  
filmed at a second location which will remain confidential for the  
moment. In addition we shot a good segment at The Center for Meteorite  
Studies at ASU, Tempe with the kind assistance of Dr. Meenakshi Wadhwa  
and Dr. Laurence Garvie, both of whom appear in the special, as well  
as the famous IBeAM. There is also plenty of cool, hi-tech animation  
of the Asteroid Belt, a re-creation of a meteorite shower, etc.

Science put out the official press release yesterday morning and you  
can read it here:

http://www.thefutoncritic.com/news.aspx?id=20090331science01


We have our own news and info page about the show here: http://www.aerolite.org/meteoritemen


And a MySpace site with additional photos here:  http://www.myspace.com/meteoritemen

Any of you who are MySpace users, please send us a friend request;  
we'd be delighted to connect with you.


The world premiere of "Meteorite Men" is Sunday, May 10 at 9 pm  
Eastern, only on the Science Channel.

It's been a long project, but a very rewarding one. Our production  
company has been fantastic to work with. They really went above and  
beyond the make the best adventure documentary possible, and we hope  
List members in the US and Canada will enjoy the show. We do not have  
international air dates yet, but hopefully "Meteorite Men" will be  
seen in other countries before too long. I will post further news when  
we have it.


Thanks for reading and all the best from sunny Tucson,

Geoff and Steve


p.s.  I know the timing is weird, but this is NOT an April Fool's  
joke  : )


From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Wed Apr  1 13:13:33 2009
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Mike Gilmer)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 12:13:33 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - April 1,
	2009
In-Reply-To: <c1a.55c2b63d.37049d8e@aol.com>
References: <c1a.55c2b63d.37049d8e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <e51421550904011013n49a15b01pe8e5cfab3769abc7@mail.gmail.com>

Nice April Fool!  It almost got me. LOL

(good Photoshop work too!)

On a similar note -

http://newsfromrussia.com/society/anomal/26-03-2009/107305-Boguslavka_Meteorite-0



On 4/1/09, SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com <SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com> wrote:
> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/April_1_2009.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________
>
> **************New Low Prices on Dell Laptops ? Starting at $399
> (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220631247x1201390185/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubl
> eclick.net%2Fclk%3B213540506%3B35046329%3Bx)
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


-- 

.........................................................
Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA)
Member of the Meteoritical Society.
Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network.
Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com
..........................................................

From azizhabibi at yahoo.com  Wed Apr  1 13:29:29 2009
From: azizhabibi at yahoo.com (habibi abdelaziz)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 10:29:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: tamedaght/tichka sales
Message-ID: <389121.69999.qm@web62008.mail.re1.yahoo.com>


hi all;
here is some half crusted tichka?for sales,

here are?photo
http://www.flickr.com/photos/azizhabibi/

thanks
aziz


I.M.C.A # 6220?habibi aziz 
box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco 
phone. 21235576145 
fax.21235576170</font> 


      

From meteoriteshow at free.fr  Wed Apr  1 14:12:54 2009
From: meteoriteshow at free.fr (Meteoriteshow)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 18:12:54 -0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - ebay auctions ending on Saturday
Message-ID: <001b01c9b2f5$7ab2a730$460aa8c0@T42>

Dear Listees,

Our ebay auctions ending on Saturday can be seen at:
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ50QQsassZmeteoriteshow

They include:

1- Al Haggounia 001 PRIM. AUB. - 79.0g Slice: Full Slice #009 weighing 
79.0g, dimensions 75x68x7mm. Shipped in a display box (see photos). STILL AT 
$1.00 STARTING PRICE!!!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330316197934

2- Gao-Guenie - H5 - 5.4g ORIENTED individual: Dimensions 18x17x9mm. 
Complete individual that has been cleaned to show the dark fusion crust. 
Beautifully oriented with flow lines, secondary fusion crust: A BEAUTY!!! 
STILL AT $1.00 STARTING PRICE!!!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330316197944

3- SAH 02500 L3 - 38.8g endcut: dimensions: 84x38x12mm. Typical structure of 
SAH 02500 on the polished cut section, with nice chondrules and metal 
flakes... STILL AT $1.00 STARTING PRICE!!!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330316197960

4- SAH 02500 L3 - 505.8g - 5 pces: Respective weights 194.79g + 136.58g + 
85.72g + 56.56g + 32.17g, 2 of them are partially fusion crusted, some of 
them display quite big chondrules at the surface...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330316197990

5- SAHARAN OC #3080 - 920g Main Mass: Dimensions 104x89x66mm. Most probably 
a L chondrite according to alteration & magnetic susceptiblility of 4,49.
Partially Fusion Crusted (~50%), it displays some beautiful regmaglypts. The 
cut section diplays 2 distinct areas showing how deep the weathering managed 
to penetrate the meteorite. Most of it looks quite fresh and metamorphized, 
with lots of thin metal flakes. STILL AT $1.00 STARTING PRICE!!!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330316198007

6- SAHARAN OC #3397 - 14.9g endcut: Dimensions 35x26x17mm.
The cut section shows a highly metamorphized structure, no metal falkes are 
visible.
Most probably a LL chondrite according to alteration & magnetic 
susceptiblility of 4,28. STILL AT $1.00 STARTING PRICE!!!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330316198023


Thank you very much for watching and best wishes to ALL BIDDERS!!!
Kind regards,

Frederic Beroud
http://www.meteoriteshow.com
IMCA member # 2491 (http://www.imca.cc/) 



From marc.d.fries at jpl.nasa.gov  Wed Apr  1 14:40:42 2009
From: marc.d.fries at jpl.nasa.gov (Fries, Marc D)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 11:40:42 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Radar signatures associated with the VA Beach
	Fireball, 29 Mar 09
Message-ID: <C5F9033A.71AA%Marc.D.Fries@jpl.nasa.gov>

Howdy ladies and gents

    I have looked over the radar data from the VA Beach fireball this past
Sunday (I?m calling it VA Beach because that was the location of the closest
eyewitness).  I believe there is a consistent debris trail in the data.
This track in the data evolves over a forty minute period and trends towards
the ESE, while all the clouds in the radar data move in a ENE to NEN
direction.  Either the debris was generated below the jet stream or we
over-estimated the effects of the jet stream, but that is something for me
to figure out later on.

    Here is my data from that meteor.  Click on each image for a
description:

http://s653.photobucket.com/albums/uu251/mfries/

    The available eyewitnesses converge well as to the direction of the
fireball.  Note that the VA Beach astronomers estimate the distance ? the
last radar return is only 20 km removed from their estimate.  The debris
trail appears mostly over the Chesapeake, but the farthest downrange portion
crosses the Delmarva peninsula near the town of Johnsontown.  The western
end of the track (i.e. the first radar data to appear) also appears over
land (just barely) near Stingray Point, VA.  Note that this is uncorrected
for wind drift.  Surface winds were out of the SES at 5mph with 20 mpg gusts
(from Norfolk, VA met data), and I placed a crude correction of 3.3 mi on my
Google Earth image (5mph over 40 minutes after the fireball reports).
Basically, the position of the debris cloud should indicate a northeastern
limit for the actual position of fallen meteorites.

    My brother hasn?t had a chance to look this over yet; I?m jumping ahead
of him a bit because I?m reasonably convinced that I?m looking at a meteor
trace in the data.

    Disclaimer: Be advised that this information comes with no guarantees of
any kind and represents my interpretation only.  This is provided for
information purposes only, and neither I nor JPL assume liability for costs
and/or personal harm that may arise from personal decisions based on this
information.

Cheers,
MDF 


From beardownbob at gmail.com  Wed Apr  1 15:23:25 2009
From: beardownbob at gmail.com (Bob Holmes)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 12:23:25 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] A good read for meteorite enthusiasts
Message-ID: <2bc48ad00904011223j33527a6cg63f2747f395bd328@mail.gmail.com>

Came across this a few minutes ago. Thought you might enjoy.

http://megaspacenews.info/national_news/090401_a.htm

Bob

From rsvp321 at hotmail.com  Wed Apr  1 15:46:44 2009
From: rsvp321 at hotmail.com (Pete Pete)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 15:46:44 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] nwa 1794
In-Reply-To: <40E9F82ED5A0492B9C8FF46E8EB5D7DB@Platinum2>
References: <385942.61455.qm@web57801.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
	<40E9F82ED5A0492B9C8FF46E8EB5D7DB@Platinum2>
Message-ID: <BAY141-W42C240C89DADEA64C449C1F88B0@phx.gbl>



Its like the movie "What About Bob"!
 
He NEVER goes away.
 
 
 

----------------------------------------
> From: stm at bellsouth.net
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 12:13:57 -0400
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] nwa 1794
>
> Ok - it's official - that is the worst April Fool's hoax. Ever.
> Next year you should claim to have an incurable disease, and then tell us
> it's not true. It'll be a gas.
>
> Unless... maybe Steve #1's saying that last week was a prequel to April
> fools, IS his april fools joke...Only time will tell.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "steve arnold" 
> To: 
> Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 10:13 AM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] nwa 1794
>
>
>
> Hi again list,and no ad.I see there is only 398 grams of NWA 1794.But I see
> there is also more material out there.Did they find more later,and if they
> did,what is the latest TKW?Also last week was a prequel to this day.APRIL
> FOOL'S DAY!!I am going no where.Have a great day and keep finding our
> passion.
>
> Steve R.Arnold No#1!,Chicago!
> 
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
_________________________________________________________________
Create a cool, new character for your Windows Live? Messenger.
http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9656621

From mikewren at gilanet.com  Wed Apr  1 15:50:10 2009
From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 12:50:10 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] nwa 1794
In-Reply-To: <BAY141-W42C240C89DADEA64C449C1F88B0@phx.gbl>
References: <385942.61455.qm@web57801.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
	<40E9F82ED5A0492B9C8FF46E8EB5D7DB@Platinum2>
	<BAY141-W42C240C89DADEA64C449C1F88B0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <9815A4C9-5CE7-4EF4-9CAD-B714DA6FF461@gilanet.com>

Or Like Ground Hog Day...over and over again...

Michael
On Apr 1, 2009, at 12:46 PM, Pete Pete wrote:

>
>
> Its like the movie "What About Bob"!
>
> He NEVER goes away.
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------
>> From: stm at bellsouth.net
>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 12:13:57 -0400
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] nwa 1794
>>
>> Ok - it's official - that is the worst April Fool's hoax. Ever.
>> Next year you should claim to have an incurable disease, and then  
>> tell us
>> it's not true. It'll be a gas.
>>
>> Unless... maybe Steve #1's saying that last week was a prequel to  
>> April
>> fools, IS his april fools joke...Only time will tell.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "steve arnold"
>> To:
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 10:13 AM
>> Subject: [meteorite-list] nwa 1794
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi again list,and no ad.I see there is only 398 grams of NWA  
>> 1794.But I see
>> there is also more material out there.Did they find more later,and  
>> if they
>> did,what is the latest TKW?Also last week was a prequel to this  
>> day.APRIL
>> FOOL'S DAY!!I am going no where.Have a great day and keep finding our
>> passion.
>>
>> Steve R.Arnold No#1!,Chicago!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> _________________________________________________________________
> Create a cool, new character for your Windows Live? Messenger.
> http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9656621
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com  Wed Apr  1 16:08:53 2009
From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 13:08:53 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Nininger's A Comet Strikes the Earth
Message-ID: <COL108-W63D66DA7C8BE5D76BDC68E9B8B0@phx.gbl>




Hello,

I just got my copy of Nininger's A Comet Strikes the Earth from Amazon. In the inside of the back cover is Dr Nininger's certification of authenticity of the Canyon Diablo meteorite which is included. There is a typo that is printed Barrington. The "ton" is crossed outand there is a "er" handwritten neatly above it. Is that typical? My copy is the 4th revision, 1953. Thanks in advance.

Carl



_________________________________________________________________
Rediscover Hotmail?: Get e-mail storage that grows with you. 
http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Storage1_042009

From marc.d.fries at jpl.nasa.gov  Wed Apr  1 16:11:49 2009
From: marc.d.fries at jpl.nasa.gov (Fries, Marc D)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 13:11:49 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Radar signatures associated with the VA Beach
 Fireball, 29 Mar 09
In-Reply-To: <C5F9033A.71AA%Marc.D.Fries@jpl.nasa.gov>
Message-ID: <C5F91895.71CD%Marc.D.Fries@jpl.nasa.gov>

That's supposed to be NNE, not NEN.   SSE instead of SES, too.  duh


On 4/1/09 11:40 AM, "Fries, Marc D" <marc.d.fries at jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:

> Howdy ladies and gents
> 
>     I have looked over the radar data from the VA Beach fireball this past
> Sunday (I?m calling it VA Beach because that was the location of the closest
> eyewitness).  I believe there is a consistent debris trail in the data.
> This track in the data evolves over a forty minute period and trends towards
> the ESE, while all the clouds in the radar data move in a ENE to NEN
> direction.  Either the debris was generated below the jet stream or we
> over-estimated the effects of the jet stream, but that is something for me
> to figure out later on.
> 
>     Here is my data from that meteor.  Click on each image for a
> description:
> 
> http://s653.photobucket.com/albums/uu251/mfries/
> 
>     The available eyewitnesses converge well as to the direction of the
> fireball.  Note that the VA Beach astronomers estimate the distance ? the
> last radar return is only 20 km removed from their estimate.  The debris
> trail appears mostly over the Chesapeake, but the farthest downrange portion
> crosses the Delmarva peninsula near the town of Johnsontown.  The western
> end of the track (i.e. the first radar data to appear) also appears over
> land (just barely) near Stingray Point, VA.  Note that this is uncorrected
> for wind drift.  Surface winds were out of the SES at 5mph with 20 mpg gusts
> (from Norfolk, VA met data), and I placed a crude correction of 3.3 mi on my
> Google Earth image (5mph over 40 minutes after the fireball reports).
> Basically, the position of the debris cloud should indicate a northeastern
> limit for the actual position of fallen meteorites.
> 
>     My brother hasn?t had a chance to look this over yet; I?m jumping ahead
> of him a bit because I?m reasonably convinced that I?m looking at a meteor
> trace in the data.
> 
>     Disclaimer: Be advised that this information comes with no guarantees of
> any kind and represents my interpretation only.  This is provided for
> information purposes only, and neither I nor JPL assume liability for costs
> and/or personal harm that may arise from personal decisions based on this
> information.
> 
> Cheers,
> MDF
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


From mstreman53 at yahoo.com  Wed Apr  1 16:27:20 2009
From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 13:27:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold of Chicago...was
	nwa 1794
In-Reply-To: <40E9F82ED5A0492B9C8FF46E8EB5D7DB@Platinum2>
Message-ID: <179945.79944.qm@web55207.mail.re4.yahoo.com>


Someone please forward this to Steve as he has me filtered. I wouldn't want him to get blind-sided or miss out on all of the white knuckled anticipation and glee some of us will be having today as a result of his "April Fools Prank". 

I am presently in the process of reporting criminal activity by Steve Arnold with both the US Attorney in Chicago via the Secret Service and the Illinois State Attorney general via the Office of Consumer Protection. An April Fools "Prank" that is REAL is the best prank of all! LMAO

What Steve failed to realize in his "prank": was that 1) while so typical for him, the ultimate in poor taste but better yet  2) his fake "going out of business sale" was a violation of Illinois consumer protection law and also US wire fraud statutes. By his own admission, Steve knowingly used premeditated, false incentives, to promote commercial sales across state lines via a wire. He also conducted a sale under the guise of "going out of business" and will will likely be forced to complete that sale within 30 days limit and/or cease business in that field as I understand the law.--plus penalties, fines, and costs-- he knows the routine.

People that bought from him in good faith, had a reasonable expectation that Steve was going "out of business" and that his inventory would no longer be available nor would he be competing with other dealers.  These are published statements in public.  There is also some evidence that Steve has been using unemployment payments to purchase inventory for an unlicensed and illegal enterprise which makes him ineligible for those payments and liable for repayment.  You have no idea how much satisfaction I am getting from knowing that his own arrogant behavior has done himself in and that his payback will hit him in a most appropriate way. 

Steve, as I write, I am waiting on a call back from the Illinois Attorney General's Office to file complaints on the fake GOB sale. Tomorrow, I, am meeting with a US Secret Service Agent (who handles wire fraud and not the FBI--go figure) to make the case for wire fraud. Don't worry you'll probably only get probation or diversion for a first offense--but wait this isn't a first offense is it? 

Oh Dratt--since you used a computer in the fraud they can make you never ever use a the internet again..depending on the victim impact statements made--if it goes to trial and not bargained out. So we'll soon be assured that it is your VERY last post!  Sounds like a win/win!!!

As to the REAL Steve Arnold of Chicago(Technically Elgin but what's a little exageration from sSteve-- I've long considered behaviors like this to be those of a slimy, lying, lowlife parasite who'll always be one--but that is my personal opinion and while that isn't illegal in itself, it has lead him once again into legal problems. (Remember a certain FAKE corporation?)

Steve's selling meteorites to buy a casket for his mother-in-law was pretty slimy especially when he went to visit her on vacation 6 months later(you know--one of the vacations he reported hourly to the list about?)...but this is even slimier.  For a person that "loves the hobby and all the friends there (sic)" he sure does slime them with regularity.

Bad Boy Bad Boy...  whatcha gonna do...Whacha gonna do when they come for you...Bad Boy Bad Boy... (he'll probably make the case for an insanity defense and walk free).

Elton

PS: Be ready for the Steve Arnold: Need to Raise Bail! Meteorite Sale--IF he has any to sell as they are evidence in his illegal activities and should be seized for 18 months till his state trial comes up.

--- On Wed, 4/1/09, Sean T. Murray <stm at bellsouth.net> wrote:

> Ok - it's official - that is the worst April Fool's
> hoax.  Ever. Next year you should claim to have an incurable disease,
> and then tell us it's not true.  It'll be a gas.
> 
> Unless... maybe Steve #1's saying that last week was a
> prequel to April fools, IS his april fools joke...Only time
> will tell.
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "steve arnold"
 
> Hi again list,and no ad.I see there is only 398 grams of
> NWA 1794.But I see there is also more material out there.Did
> they find more later,and if they did,what is the latest
> TKW?Also last week was a prequel to this day.APRIL
> FOOL'S DAY!!I am going no where.Have a great day and
> keep finding our passion.
> 
> Steve R.Arnold No#1!,Chicago!
> <a rel="nofollow"></a>

From mail at spaceguarduk.com  Wed Apr  1 16:34:08 2009
From: mail at spaceguarduk.com (Spaceguard Centre)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 21:34:08 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold of
	Chicago...wasnwa 1794
References: <179945.79944.qm@web55207.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <68D9C139272149ECB044CE8FA99B39D8@ASUS>

Isn't this all getting a bit silly?  I'm sure that US law enforcement 
agencies have better things to do at the moment!  Over here in the UK we 
manage to endure bad taste and poor senses of humour without rushing to 
litigation, but I suppose that's the American way .....

Jay Tate
The Spaceguard Centre
http://www.spaceguarduk.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mr EMan" <mstreman53 at yahoo.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>; <IMCA at imcamail.de>
Cc: "dirk ross" <drtanuki at yahoo.com>; "E.L. Jones" <mstreman53 at yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 9:27 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold of 
Chicago...wasnwa 1794


>
> Someone please forward this to Steve as he has me filtered. I wouldn't 
> want him to get blind-sided or miss out on all of the white knuckled 
> anticipation and glee some of us will be having today as a result of his 
> "April Fools Prank".
>
> I am presently in the process of reporting criminal activity by Steve 
> Arnold with both the US Attorney in Chicago via the Secret Service and the 
> Illinois State Attorney general via the Office of Consumer Protection. An 
> April Fools "Prank" that is REAL is the best prank of all! LMAO
>
> What Steve failed to realize in his "prank": was that 1) while so typical 
> for him, the ultimate in poor taste but better yet  2) his fake "going out 
> of business sale" was a violation of Illinois consumer protection law and 
> also US wire fraud statutes. By his own admission, Steve knowingly used 
> premeditated, false incentives, to promote commercial sales across state 
> lines via a wire. He also conducted a sale under the guise of "going out 
> of business" and will will likely be forced to complete that sale within 
> 30 days limit and/or cease business in that field as I understand the 
> law.--plus penalties, fines, and costs-- he knows the routine.
>
> People that bought from him in good faith, had a reasonable expectation 
> that Steve was going "out of business" and that his inventory would no 
> longer be available nor would he be competing with other dealers.  These 
> are published statements in public.  There is also some evidence that 
> Steve has been using unemployment payments to purchase inventory for an 
> unlicensed and illegal enterprise which makes him ineligible for those 
> payments and liable for repayment.  You have no idea how much satisfaction 
> I am getting from knowing that his own arrogant behavior has done himself 
> in and that his payback will hit him in a most appropriate way.
>
> Steve, as I write, I am waiting on a call back from the Illinois Attorney 
> General's Office to file complaints on the fake GOB sale. Tomorrow, I, am 
> meeting with a US Secret Service Agent (who handles wire fraud and not the 
> FBI--go figure) to make the case for wire fraud. Don't worry you'll 
> probably only get probation or diversion for a first offense--but wait 
> this isn't a first offense is it?
>
> Oh Dratt--since you used a computer in the fraud they can make you never 
> ever use a the internet again..depending on the victim impact statements 
> made--if it goes to trial and not bargained out. So we'll soon be assured 
> that it is your VERY last post!  Sounds like a win/win!!!
>
> As to the REAL Steve Arnold of Chicago(Technically Elgin but what's a 
> little exageration from sSteve-- I've long considered behaviors like this 
> to be those of a slimy, lying, lowlife parasite who'll always be one--but 
> that is my personal opinion and while that isn't illegal in itself, it has 
> lead him once again into legal problems. (Remember a certain FAKE 
> corporation?)
>
> Steve's selling meteorites to buy a casket for his mother-in-law was 
> pretty slimy especially when he went to visit her on vacation 6 months 
> later(you know--one of the vacations he reported hourly to the list 
> about?)...but this is even slimier.  For a person that "loves the hobby 
> and all the friends there (sic)" he sure does slime them with regularity.
>
> Bad Boy Bad Boy...  whatcha gonna do...Whacha gonna do when they come for 
> you...Bad Boy Bad Boy... (he'll probably make the case for an insanity 
> defense and walk free).
>
> Elton
>
> PS: Be ready for the Steve Arnold: Need to Raise Bail! Meteorite Sale--IF 
> he has any to sell as they are evidence in his illegal activities and 
> should be seized for 18 months till his state trial comes up.
>
> --- On Wed, 4/1/09, Sean T. Murray <stm at bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>> Ok - it's official - that is the worst April Fool's
>> hoax.  Ever. Next year you should claim to have an incurable disease,
>> and then tell us it's not true.  It'll be a gas.
>>
>> Unless... maybe Steve #1's saying that last week was a
>> prequel to April fools, IS his april fools joke...Only time
>> will tell.
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "steve arnold"
>
>> Hi again list,and no ad.I see there is only 398 grams of
>> NWA 1794.But I see there is also more material out there.Did
>> they find more later,and if they did,what is the latest
>> TKW?Also last week was a prequel to this day.APRIL
>> FOOL'S DAY!!I am going no where.Have a great day and
>> keep finding our passion.
>>
>> Steve R.Arnold No#1!,Chicago!
>> <a rel="nofollow"></a>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> 


From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Wed Apr  1 16:41:31 2009
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Mike Gilmer)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 15:41:31 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Arizona Johnny - a big pat on the back
Message-ID: <e51421550904011341o37ce4c2atfe83f2b197096116@mail.gmail.com>

I'd like to publicly thank Arizona Johnny (John Humphries) for being
such a stand-up guy and straight shooter.  I have done countless deals
with Johnny (probably well over 100) and every single one has been a
breeze with no worries or hangups.  He's a cool guy, answers all
questions/emails, gives great deals, ships fast, and includes the
occasional freebie.  What more could one ask for?

I highly recommend Johnny to all fellow collectors who are looking for
a trouble-free meteorite transaction.

Johnny has no idea I was going to do this, and I hope I don't
embarrass him.  And I hope that my detractors don't transfer their
contempt for me to Johnny.  John's a good guy and deserves a little
free publicity and a public thank you. ;)

http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/azmeteorites

Best regards,

MikeG


-- 

.........................................................
Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA)
Member of the Meteoritical Society.
Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network.
Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com
..........................................................

From cynapse at charter.net  Wed Apr  1 18:12:42 2009
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 17:12:42 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold of Chicago...was
	nwa 1794
In-Reply-To: <179945.79944.qm@web55207.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
References: <40E9F82ED5A0492B9C8FF46E8EB5D7DB@Platinum2>
	<179945.79944.qm@web55207.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <dip7t4p0elpeadgjl1ktnb5iv0tlmdj5sa@4ax.com>

On Wed, 1 Apr 2009 13:27:20 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:

>I am presently in the process of reporting 
>criminal activity by Steve Arnold with both the 
>US Attorney in Chicago via the Secret Service 
>and the Illinois State Attorney general via the 
>Office of Consumer Protection. An April Fools 
>"Prank" that is REAL is the best prank of all! LMAO

Interpretative reinactment of this turn of events:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEdLuQOEk8Y

From mstreman53 at yahoo.com  Wed Apr  1 18:18:06 2009
From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 15:18:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] [IMCA] Re: Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold of
	Chicago...was nwa 1794
In-Reply-To: <694660.44407.qm@web45609.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <998291.33882.qm@web55206.mail.re4.yahoo.com>


Gosh Greg..Thank you for your opinion,..again,....again.....again

You know I sent you a very lengthy private letter apologizing for the points of that post which may have suggested or may have been interpreted to suggest that I was attacking you. Now you show me that you can't let that go either.  I seems that it is either YOUR way or no way so why don't you run for an IMCA office..OR better still run down a member of the secret meteorite possee and ask to be deputized.

In my IMCA post which you have partially POSTED to the METEORITE CENTRAL LIST, I made the point that in the whole scheme of things, refusing to let go of this specific auction(-- which was purchased by an expert already taking steps so that the seller will be legally reviewed) was a dangerous place to go when it was pursued with the radicalismn of a cyber-terrorist.  That auction is not available to a "novice" buyer and you've missed the point. I followed established avenues for remedy. Please everyone note, I didn't call the President and CEO of eBay at his home at dinnertime to personally complain about a $15 specimen of dubious origin. Nor did I get a nasty gram from eBay telling me to cease and desist or face account loss or more. 

Unlike YOU, I did not post my feedback to Steve's Prank as a member of the IMCA.  I posted as a member of the meteorite central list. So we'll have to disagree on each others actions and just move along. Big Steve put this "Prank" on the list and made it a fair topic for response. Steve wanted "humor" and I think he exceeded expectations!!!

 Greg review your rule books and STOP posting IMCA business on the Meteorite Central list,please. Someone might have to report your actions and Steve wouldn't be the only one disinvited from an association.  Knowing you will not let this go, when you do bring it up elsewhere keep my quotes in context and don't distort them like you've done here. I perfected Trollism before you were born and I am as good as anyone at detecting deliberate distortions especially when they are of my own positions.

I am not the one who broke laws and as a citizen, it is morally acceptable to report illegal trade practices in China or Chicago.  I am sure if Steve has read all this, he is relishing the attention and he is laughing his pants off--(well doing something in his pants anyway) and we are all having fun even if not the fun he intended.

I hope you now find a reason to take any further attacks off both lists better yet take a chill and get on with life to handle another day. There are 12 step programs for those that are unable to see humor where humor is warranted.  Bad Boys or Bad Boz is a classic melody of satire I'm sure you've heard the song.

Elton

--- On Wed, 4/1/09, Greg Catterton <star_wars_collector at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Greg Catterton <star_wars_collector at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [IMCA] Re:  Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold of Chicago...was nwa 1794
> To: "Mr EMan" <mstreman53 at yahoo.com>
> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, IMCA at imcamail.de
> Date: Wednesday, April 1, 2009, 5:08 PM
> your comments made toward/about me over my actions with the
> ebay scam seller ryderdude:
> ?
> "So a meteorwrong gets sold to a novice that
> didn't know "sh*t from shinola" no big deal in
> the whole scheme of things.? BUT if IMCA gets a bad
> reputation by association then the entire war is lost and
> how much was it worth to try to get even with a single
> seller?
> Elton"
> ?
> It is my opinion that your recent post is reflective of the
> IMCA in a far worse way then my polite and good intentioned
> actions to stop a fraudulent seller of fake?meteorites on
> ebay.
> ?
> Comments such as "Bad Boy Bad Boy...? whatcha gonna
> do...Whacha gonna do when they come for you...Bad Boy Bad
> Boy... " are very childish, regardless of the issues.
> I am not getting into this issue with Steves
> "joke" as I want no involvement, but I do feel the
> need to reply to your comments as they are way off base and
> DO reflect badly on you and as a member of the IMCA, it
> reflects badly on them...
> ?
> You clearly state that "So a meteorwrong gets sold to
> a novice that didn't know "sh*t from shinola"
> no big deal in the whole scheme of things." and that is
> totally false.
> It is a vey big deal as we were all novices at one point
> and the novices are the future of this hobby... to allow
> them to be frauded will only hurt us in the long run.
> ?
> My attempts to get ebay to stop ryderdude760 was NEVER
> about "getting even" it was to protect uninformed
> buyers (novices as you call them) who could possibly be
> turned off of this great hobby due to getting scammed with
> fake material when ebay knows about his fraud and has been
> provided proof.
> ?
> You however?show no concern about novices getting ripped
> off, but are ready to jump on the "anti -Steve
> bandwagon" and persue legal action against him...
> ?
> I am not defending Steve in anyway here, I am simply
> calling you out on your actions which in my opinion?reflect
> far worse then anything I have seen from an IMCA member to
> date.
> Please do not reply to me by email as I want nothing to do
> with you from this point on.
> ?
> ?
> Greg C.
> ?
> ?
> 
> 
> --- On Wed, 4/1/09, Mr EMan <mstreman53 at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> 
> 
> From: Mr EMan <mstreman53 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [IMCA] Re: Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold of
> Chicago...was nwa 1794
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, IMCA at imcamail.de
> Date: Wednesday, April 1, 2009, 4:27 PM
> 
> 
> 
> Someone please forward this to Steve as he has me filtered.
> I wouldn't want him to get blind-sided or miss out on
> all of the white knuckled anticipation and glee some of us
> will be having today as a result of his "April Fools
> Prank". 
> 
> I am presently in the process of reporting criminal
> activity by Steve Arnold with both the US Attorney in
> Chicago via the Secret Service and the Illinois State
> Attorney general via the Office of Consumer Protection. An
> April Fools "Prank" that is REAL is the best prank
> of all! LMAO
> 
> What Steve failed to realize in his "prank": was
> that 1) while so typical for him, the ultimate in poor taste
> but better yet? 2) his fake "going out of business
> sale" was a violation of Illinois consumer protection
> law and also US wire fraud statutes. By his own admission,
> Steve knowingly used premeditated, false incentives, to
> promote commercial sales across state lines via a wire. He
> also conducted a sale under the guise of "going out of
> business" and will will likely be forced to complete
> that sale within 30 days limit and/or cease business in that
> field as I understand the law.--plus penalties, fines, and
> costs-- he knows the routine.
> 
> People that bought from him in good faith, had a reasonable
> expectation that Steve was going "out of business"
> and that his inventory would no longer be available nor
> would he be competing with other dealers.? These are
> published statements in public.? There is also some
> evidence that Steve has been using unemployment payments to
> purchase inventory for an unlicensed and illegal enterprise
> which makes him ineligible for those payments and liable for
> repayment.? You have no idea how much satisfaction I am
> getting from knowing that his own arrogant behavior has done
> himself in and that his payback will hit him in a most
> appropriate way. 
> 
> Steve, as I write, I am waiting on a call back from the
> Illinois Attorney General's Office to file complaints on
> the fake GOB sale. Tomorrow, I, am meeting with a US Secret
> Service Agent (who handles wire fraud and not the FBI--go
> figure) to make the case for wire fraud. Don't worry
> you'll probably only get probation or diversion for a
> first offense--but wait this isn't a first offense is
> it? 
> 
> Oh Dratt--since you used a computer in the fraud they can
> make you never ever use a the internet again..depending on
> the victim impact statements made--if it goes to trial and
> not bargained out. So we'll soon be assured that it is
> your VERY last post!? Sounds like a win/win!!!
> 
> As to the REAL Steve Arnold of Chicago(Technically Elgin
> but what's a little exageration from sSteve-- I've
> long considered behaviors like this to be those of a slimy,
> lying, lowlife parasite who'll always be one--but that
> is my personal opinion and while that isn't illegal in
> itself, it has lead him once again into legal problems.
> (Remember a certain FAKE corporation?)
> 
> Steve's selling meteorites to buy a casket for his
> mother-in-law was pretty slimy especially when he went to
> visit her on vacation 6 months later(you know--one of the
> vacations he reported hourly to the list about?)...but this
> is even slimier.? For a person that "loves the hobby
> and all the friends there (sic)" he sure does slime
> them with regularity.
> 
> Bad Boy Bad Boy...? whatcha gonna do...Whacha gonna do
> when they come for you...Bad Boy Bad Boy... (he'll
> probably make the case for an insanity defense and walk
> free).
> 
> Elton
> 
> PS: Be ready for the Steve Arnold: Need to Raise Bail!
> Meteorite Sale--IF he has any to sell as they are evidence
> in his illegal activities and should be seized for 18 months
> till his state trial comes up.
> 
> --- On Wed, 4/1/09, Sean T. Murray
> <stm at bellsouth.net> wrote:
> 
> > Ok - it's official - that is the worst April
> Fool's
> > hoax.? Ever. Next year you should claim to have an
> incurable disease,
> > and then tell us it's not true.? It'll be a
> gas.
> > 
> > Unless... maybe Steve #1's saying that last week
> was a
> > prequel to April fools, IS his april fools joke...Only
> time
> > will tell.
> > 
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "steve
> arnold"
> 
> > Hi again list,and no ad.I see there is only 398 grams
> of
> > NWA 1794.But I see there is also more material out
> there.Did
> > they find more later,and if they did,what is the
> latest
> > TKW?Also last week was a prequel to this day.APRIL
> > FOOL'S DAY!!I am going no where.Have a great day
> and
> > keep finding our passion.
> > 
> > Steve R.Arnold No#1!,Chicago!
> > <a rel="nofollow"></a>
> _______________________________________________
> IMCA mailing list
> IMCA at imcamail.de
> http://lists.imcamail.de/mailman/listinfo/imca

From Impactika at aol.com  Wed Apr  1 18:20:23 2009
From: Impactika at aol.com (Impactika at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 18:20:23 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - more Thin-Sections
Message-ID: <bd4.49ca83de.370542a7@aol.com>

Hello Everybody,

Yes, this time I added a bunch of thin-sections, I have to vary things.
Another 25 or so. Of course, with great pictures. Take a look at:
http://www.impactika.com/TSlist.htm

And I also reduced the prices of some of my most historical pieces at the 
request of their owner. Go look, you might be surprised.
And of course, let me know if you have any questions.
Thanks.

Anne M. Black
http://www.impactika.com/
IMPACTIKA at aol.com
Vice-President, I.M.C.A. Inc.
http://www.imca.cc/
**************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store?  Make dinner for $10 or 
less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001)

From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Wed Apr  1 18:46:21 2009
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 15:46:21 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] West
Message-ID: <49D3EEBD.9060400@meteoritesusa.com>

According to the Waco Tribune Herald

"...Update: Washer-sized chunk of meteorite found near West..."

http://www.wacotrib.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/communities/breakingnews/entries/2009/04/01/big_chunk_of_meteorite_found_o.html

;)

-- 
Regards,
Eric Wichman
Meteorites USA
904-236-5394


From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Wed Apr  1 19:47:56 2009
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 16:47:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars Exploration Rovers Update - March 19-25, 2009
Message-ID: <200904012347.QAA06859@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>


http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/mission/status.html#spirit

SPIRIT UPDATE:  Distance Record for Five-Wheel Driving - sols 1852-1858,
March 19-25, 2009:

Spirit is making good progress around Home Plate to the west. After
getting clear of troublesome rocks, Spirit drove 13.8 meters (45.3 feet)
on Sol 1854 (March 21, 2009). The next drive, on Sol 1856 (March 23,
2009), achieved a new distance record for five-wheel driving. Spirit
drove 25.82 meters (84.7 feet), beating the old record by about a meter.
Spirit completed another drive of 12.9 meters (42.3 feet) on Sol 1858
(March 25, 2009).

The sol ahead will see the building of the new R9.3 flight software on
board the rover. The rover will boot the new software on the subsequent
sol.

As of Sol 1858 (March 25, 2009), Spirit's solar array energy production
is 233 watt-hours. Atmospheric opacity (tau) remains elevated at 1.15.
The dust factor on the solar array, 0.309, means that 30.9 percent of
sunlight hitting the solar array penetrates the layer of accumulated
dust on the array. The rover is in good health in spite of dusty skies.
Spirit's total odometry is 7,665.02 meters (4.76 miles).

------------------------------------------------------------------------

OPPORTUNITY UPDATE:  Brushing and Examining an Outcrop - sols 1831-1837,
March 19-25, 2009:

Opportunity remains positioned on an exposed rock outcrop, continuing an
"in situ" (contact) science campaign with the robotic arm (IDD).

On Sol 1832 (March 20, 2009), the first part of a rock abrasion tool
(RAT) brushing activity was performed. Using a new work-around for the
failed RAT Z-encoder, the RAT successfully performed a seek-scan to
locate the rock surface. On the next sol, the RAT successfully brushed
the surface. The Microscopic imager (MI) took images to document the
brushing. The M?ssbauer (MB) spectrometer was placed on the brushed
target, and several sols of integration were performed. On Sol 1836
(March 24, 2009), the alpha particle X-ray spectrometer (APXS) was
placed on the brushed target to measure the elemental composition. On
Sol 1837 (March 25, 2009), another RAT seek-scan was performed to set up
for a RAT grind on the next sol.

As of Sol 1837 (March 25, 2009), Opportunity's solar array energy
production is 336 watt-hours. Atmospheric opacity (tau) remains elevated
at 1.145. The solar array dust factor is 0.497, meaning that 49.7
percent of sunlight hitting the solar array penetrates the layer of
accumulated dust on the array. Opportunity is in good health. Its total
odometry remains at 15,051.44 meters (9.35 miles).



From arizonakeith at cox.net  Wed Apr  1 19:40:37 2009
From: arizonakeith at cox.net (Arizona Keith)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 16:40:37 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] meteorite news -2 arrested update
References: <535231.21171.qm@web53209.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2A7AE05591464D8287DCCAC10680F522@Keith2>

Hello List

Update from True Citizen 4-1-09

"Two meteorite hunters have been banned from Burke County after pleading 
guilty in State Court this morning (Wednesday).

Ralph "Sonny" Clary and Michael Miller were both fined $2,000 and told "to 
get out of dodge."

Judge Jerry M. Daniel said he'd planned to put them in jail but only changed 
his mind when the landowner didn't push it.

After demanding the maximum fine, he told them "pay it, get your stuff and 
get out of Burke County.""

http://www.thetruecitizen.com/news/2009/0401/breakingnews/01.html

Keith V

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "drtanuki" <drtanuki at yahoo.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 4:58 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] meteorite news -2 arrested


>
> Dear List,
>  According to an article in a newspaper two meteorite hunters were 
> arrested.
>
> http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.com/
>
> Dirk Ross...Tokyo
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


From waltbranch at bellsouth.net  Wed Apr  1 21:55:42 2009
From: waltbranch at bellsouth.net (Walter Branch)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 21:55:42 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Need help from a Teacher
Message-ID: <EDD6794C08AC4CC6AC31875AD0AF9998@Walter>

Hello Everyone,

I received the following message from a teacher:

"Hi. I am a teacher. I have a student that is 12 years old and is interested 
in becoming a weather scientist. He is really a good kid and studies very 
hard. I want to give him a special gift of a meteorite. I'd like to buy a 
genuine one that is heavy like iron ore maybe about an 1-1/2" across. Do you 
have one that is available with some interesting history. Class ends in a 
couple of weeks. Can you sell me one? best Tom"

Can someone help him out.  I have some NWA meteorite I give away to kids, 
but I don't have any irons.  Maybe someone has a small Canyon Diablo?

-Walter 


From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com  Wed Apr  1 22:26:38 2009
From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 19:26:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] TEST - Please disregard
Message-ID: <783307.15068.qm@web45613.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>


test... test... test


      


From keithandana at gmail.com  Wed Apr  1 22:54:46 2009
From: keithandana at gmail.com (Keith and Dana Jenkerson)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 19:54:46 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] (AD) - West Texas Meteorites For Sale!
Message-ID: <f9cf59510904011954n6dda8481w89a466eb44c14bf8@mail.gmail.com>

Hello, All!

We have 5 West Texas Meteorites we are offering for sale.

Their weights are:
223.8 gm
102.1 gm
82.8 gm
47.5 gm
28.7 gm

These are fusion crusted individuals, three of which were found before
the rain, including the 223.8 gram specimen. Please contact us off
list for pictures and pricing!

Thanks!
Keith and Dana Jenkerson
keithandana at gmail.com
--
KD Meteorites
kdmeteorites.com
Keith and Dana Jenkerson
4596 N. Vickie Lane
Kingman, AZ., 86409
928-399-0140
928-277-9293

From schraderj at rocketmail.com  Wed Apr  1 23:52:06 2009
From: schraderj at rocketmail.com (Jack Schrader)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 20:52:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list]  Ad NWA 5549 silicated iron
Message-ID: <490170.71326.qm@web111003.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>


Dear list members, 

The 161.9 gram slice of the Algerian silicated iron ends in less than two days and the bid price is still less than $4 a gram at this point!? These were selling in Tucson for $7 a gram and even the intact uncut specimens are now up to $5 a gram.? This is one of the largest professionally prepared slices you will ever see available of this rare iron.? Nicer than Lueders (which is now going for upwards of $20 a gram), see it here:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160324560375

Thanks for looking! Jack


      


From parkforestmet at hotmail.com  Thu Apr  2 00:26:03 2009
From: parkforestmet at hotmail.com (bill kies)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 23:26:03 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold of Chicago...wasnwa
	1794
Message-ID: <SNT102-W42E54AF62C6598BA83FF0FA2880@phx.gbl>



Mr. Tate,
 
At a glance this situation might look silly but April 1st or not, sSteve has been entertaining himself at the expense of this list for almost a decade. People can only tolerate so much. We, list members, have managed the bad taste and poor humor well enough. Don't rush to judgement unless you've read the archives extensively and understand what this fellow is all about.
 
Bill
_________________________________________________________________
Quick access to your favorite MSN content and Windows Live with Internet Explorer 8. 
http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B037MSN55C0701A

From meteoritekid at gmail.com  Thu Apr  2 00:43:00 2009
From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 21:43:00 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold of
	Chicago...wasnwa 1794
In-Reply-To: <SNT102-W42E54AF62C6598BA83FF0FA2880@phx.gbl>
References: <SNT102-W42E54AF62C6598BA83FF0FA2880@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <93aaac890904012143ieb3aaf2n545fa4d66fc66119@mail.gmail.com>

Hola,
I would again like to point out that, even though his posts may be
repetitive and annoying to some - maybe even most - of the
list-members who have yet to block him (you might give it a try if
you're so annoyed), well, the simple fact of the matter is that a
single one of his posts just elicited four utterly negative responses.
I *still* find it hypocritical that you lot insist on spamming more
than he does.  I recall saying at least a few years ago - you're not
going to stop him, and going about it the way you are - or any way,
really, isn't going to do anything.
I was apparently right.
There's a brick wall there, and no matter how long you persist in
throwing yourselves against it, it's not budging, regardless of how
right (or wrong) you are in doing so.  You're not going to change him,
or the situation in general.  Why not give the rest of us a bit of a
respite from the constant haranguing and leave him be, eh?  One fifth
the spam would be nice.
Jason

On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 9:26 PM, bill kies <parkforestmet at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Mr. Tate,
>
> At a glance this situation might look silly but April 1st or not, sSteve has been entertaining himself at the expense of this list for almost a decade. People can only tolerate so much. We, list members, have managed the bad taste and poor humor well enough. Don't rush to judgement unless you've read the archives extensively and understand what this fellow is all about.
>
> Bill
> _________________________________________________________________
> Quick access to your favorite MSN content and Windows Live with Internet Explorer 8.
> http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B037MSN55C0701A
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>

From cynapse at charter.net  Thu Apr  2 01:48:44 2009
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 00:48:44 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] meteorite news -2 arrested update (Dude--
	Where's My Car edition)
In-Reply-To: <2A7AE05591464D8287DCCAC10680F522@Keith2>
References: <535231.21171.qm@web53209.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<2A7AE05591464D8287DCCAC10680F522@Keith2>
Message-ID: <3ak8t417l2ravohtifr5nsas23v7r8v6q6@4ax.com>

Finally, a detailed account:

http://www.wjbf.com/jbf/news/crime/article/meteorite_hunters_jailed_in_burke_county_for_trespassing/12297/

The True Citizen | Liz Billups
Published: April 1, 2009

Burke County, GA?According to ?The True Citizen,? two Southwestern meteorite
hunters found fame they weren?t searching for.

Just one week after Las Vegas meteorite hunter Ralph ?Sonny? Clary, Jr. was
interviewed by WJBF News Channel 6, he and Arizona hunter, Michael William
Miller, were arrested for criminal trespass in Burke County.

According to officers, the pair was searching for debris from the big March 20th
meteorite sighting, when they zeroed in on a farm in the northern portion of the
county, without permission.

?They went from famous to infamous,? one ranger said, after the pair was carted
off to jail.

The landowner called authorities, Monday morning, when she saw a strange Kia Rio
parked on her property, and suspected poachers. DNR rangers say they were thrown
off by the tiny white compact car, which is not popular among turkey hunters,
but backed the landowner?s suspicions when they saw camouflage clothing inside.

After an unproductive search in the nearby woods, the landowner had the Kia
towed.

The landowner and meteorite hunters came face to face when they came out of the
woods and found their car missing. They knocked on her door for help; she
ordered them to stay put, then both parties began simultaneously calling the
cops.

Clary and Miller told officers they hadn?t damaged anything and just wanted to
pay the towing bill, and be on their way. The landowner said the men were
profiteering on her property, without permission, and that she wanted them
prosecuted ?to the fullest extent.?

The suspects are scheduled to appear in state court, Wednesday morning.

Would-be criminals should probably take heed. Last October, the same homeowner,
at age 66, held two burglars face-down in the dirt with her pistol while she
waited for deputies to come arrest them.

From parkforestmet at hotmail.com  Thu Apr  2 00:53:12 2009
From: parkforestmet at hotmail.com (bill kies)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 23:53:12 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold
	of	Chicago...wasnwa 1794
In-Reply-To: <93aaac890904012143ieb3aaf2n545fa4d66fc66119@mail.gmail.com>
References: <SNT102-W42E54AF62C6598BA83FF0FA2880@phx.gbl>
	<93aaac890904012143ieb3aaf2n545fa4d66fc66119@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SNT102-W32C857347290BA751FCD8DA2880@phx.gbl>


I've sorta been hoping that admin would notice. He has in the past. Replies to Steves's scam have been minimal. You're reply adds to it as much as any which negates your misguided sentiment.
 


----------------------------------------
> Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 21:43:00 -0700
> From: meteoritekid at gmail.com
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold of Chicago...wasnwa 1794
>
> Hola,
> I would again like to point out that, even though his posts may be
> repetitive and annoying to some - maybe even most - of the
> list-members who have yet to block him (you might give it a try if
> you're so annoyed), well, the simple fact of the matter is that a
> single one of his posts just elicited four utterly negative responses.
> I *still* find it hypocritical that you lot insist on spamming more
> than he does. I recall saying at least a few years ago - you're not
> going to stop him, and going about it the way you are - or any way,
> really, isn't going to do anything.
> I was apparently right.
> There's a brick wall there, and no matter how long you persist in
> throwing yourselves against it, it's not budging, regardless of how
> right (or wrong) you are in doing so. You're not going to change him,
> or the situation in general. Why not give the rest of us a bit of a
> respite from the constant haranguing and leave him be, eh? One fifth
> the spam would be nice.
> Jason
>
> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 9:26 PM, bill kies wrote:
>>
>>
>> Mr. Tate,
>>
>> At a glance this situation might look silly but April 1st or not, sSteve has been entertaining himself at the expense of this list for almost a decade. People can only tolerate so much. We, list members, have managed the bad taste and poor humor well enough. Don't rush to judgement unless you've read the archives extensively and understand what this fellow is all about.
>>
>> Bill
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Quick access to your favorite MSN content and Windows Live with Internet Explorer 8.
>> http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B037MSN55C0701A
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
_________________________________________________________________
Rediscover Hotmail?: Get e-mail storage that grows with you. 
http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Storage1_042009

From markig at westnet.com  Thu Apr  2 01:00:14 2009
From: markig at westnet.com (Mark Grossman)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 01:00:14 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold ofChicago...wasnwa
	1794
References: <SNT102-W42E54AF62C6598BA83FF0FA2880@phx.gbl>
	<93aaac890904012143ieb3aaf2n545fa4d66fc66119@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <31BBEA91B8B84D9086B3233624BE72A4@QED>

Without taking any sides pro or con re the particulars of Steve's actions:

> There's a brick wall there, and no matter how long you persist in
> throwing yourselves against it, it's not budging, regardless of how
> right (or wrong) you are in doing so.  You're not going to change him,
> or the situation in general.

What a sad state of affairs Jason has described regarding the status of the 
biggest meteorite list in the world - no matter which side of the fence you 
are on.

Mark Grossman

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jason Utas" <meteoritekid at gmail.com>
To: "Meteorite-list" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 12:43 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold ofChicago...wasnwa 
1794


> Hola,
> I would again like to point out that, even though his posts may be
> repetitive and annoying to some - maybe even most - of the
> list-members who have yet to block him (you might give it a try if
> you're so annoyed), well, the simple fact of the matter is that a
> single one of his posts just elicited four utterly negative responses.
> I *still* find it hypocritical that you lot insist on spamming more
> than he does.  I recall saying at least a few years ago - you're not
> going to stop him, and going about it the way you are - or any way,
> really, isn't going to do anything.
> I was apparently right.
> There's a brick wall there, and no matter how long you persist in
> throwing yourselves against it, it's not budging, regardless of how
> right (or wrong) you are in doing so.  You're not going to change him,
> or the situation in general.  Why not give the rest of us a bit of a
> respite from the constant haranguing and leave him be, eh?  One fifth
> the spam would be nice.
> Jason
>
> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 9:26 PM, bill kies <parkforestmet at hotmail.com> 
> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Mr. Tate,
>>
>> At a glance this situation might look silly but April 1st or not, sSteve 
>> has been entertaining himself at the expense of this list for almost a 
>> decade. People can only tolerate so much. We, list members, have managed 
>> the bad taste and poor humor well enough. Don't rush to judgement unless 
>> you've read the archives extensively and understand what this fellow is 
>> all about.
>>
>> Bill
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Quick access to your favorite MSN content and Windows Live with Internet 
>> Explorer 8.
>> http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B037MSN55C0701A
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


From meteoritekid at gmail.com  Thu Apr  2 01:34:07 2009
From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 22:34:07 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold ofChicago...wasnwa
	1794
In-Reply-To: <31BBEA91B8B84D9086B3233624BE72A4@QED>
References: <SNT102-W42E54AF62C6598BA83FF0FA2880@phx.gbl>
	<93aaac890904012143ieb3aaf2n545fa4d66fc66119@mail.gmail.com>
	<31BBEA91B8B84D9086B3233624BE72A4@QED>
Message-ID: <93aaac890904012234u789fe598w176d5f4088defa05@mail.gmail.com>

Bill,
You are breaking list policy as much as he is in posting as you do, if
not more.  His posts do break the suggested limit for posts in a given
time period, but they are always in good spirit, never derogatory, and
are generally meteorite-related.  Get off your high-horses and accept
the fact that no matter how wrong he is, you're stooping to below his
level in posting as you do.  If you wanted Art to take action, you
should have messaged him, not me.  I don't think I'm wrong in assuming
that the rest of the folks out there share that sentiment.  If we had
a problem with Steve, we would have blocked him.  As could you.  The
fact that you haven't seems to suggest that you like the opportunity
to harass him.
And you call him annoying.
I won't criticize or support him; I personally don't care for or
dislike his messages.  They're there, and your posts aren't going to
change that.

You're the one with the ability to change, to take the higher road.

Mark,
I know, but I think it's obvious enough, almost a decade down the
line, that things are not going to change.
This has been going on for, well, combine world the first and second
world wars.  That's about how long.
Longer than the occupation of Iraq, and half the length of the Vietnam War.
You'd think that, at some point, people would begin to understand the
futility of their own actions.
And at some point, I would think it prudent for certain people to
realize that the effort they take to spearhead this effort against him
is really done for the sake of hundreds of people who couldn't care
less.  And the level to which they take action against him for being,
what amounts to at worst, a simpleton, is beyond me.  Litigiousness in
the sense Elton seems to be advocating is, in my mind, much worse than
anything Steve has ever done - and, given the past, considerably worse
than what he seems capable of doing.

Jason

On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 10:00 PM, Mark Grossman <markig at westnet.com> wrote:
> Without taking any sides pro or con re the particulars of Steve's actions:
>
>> There's a brick wall there, and no matter how long you persist in
>> throwing yourselves against it, it's not budging, regardless of how
>> right (or wrong) you are in doing so. ?You're not going to change him,
>> or the situation in general.
>
> What a sad state of affairs Jason has described regarding the status of the
> biggest meteorite list in the world - no matter which side of the fence you
> are on.
>
> Mark Grossman
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jason Utas" <meteoritekid at gmail.com>
> To: "Meteorite-list" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 12:43 AM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold ofChicago...wasnwa
> 1794
>
>
>> Hola,
>> I would again like to point out that, even though his posts may be
>> repetitive and annoying to some - maybe even most - of the
>> list-members who have yet to block him (you might give it a try if
>> you're so annoyed), well, the simple fact of the matter is that a
>> single one of his posts just elicited four utterly negative responses.
>> I *still* find it hypocritical that you lot insist on spamming more
>> than he does. ?I recall saying at least a few years ago - you're not
>> going to stop him, and going about it the way you are - or any way,
>> really, isn't going to do anything.
>> I was apparently right.
>> There's a brick wall there, and no matter how long you persist in
>> throwing yourselves against it, it's not budging, regardless of how
>> right (or wrong) you are in doing so. ?You're not going to change him,
>> or the situation in general. ?Why not give the rest of us a bit of a
>> respite from the constant haranguing and leave him be, eh? ?One fifth
>> the spam would be nice.
>> Jason
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 9:26 PM, bill kies <parkforestmet at hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Mr. Tate,
>>>
>>> At a glance this situation might look silly but April 1st or not, sSteve
>>> has been entertaining himself at the expense of this list for almost a
>>> decade. People can only tolerate so much. We, list members, have managed the
>>> bad taste and poor humor well enough. Don't rush to judgement unless you've
>>> read the archives extensively and understand what this fellow is all about.
>>>
>>> Bill
>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>> Quick access to your favorite MSN content and Windows Live with Internet
>>> Explorer 8.
>>>
>>> http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B037MSN55C0701A
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>
>

From parkforestmet at hotmail.com  Thu Apr  2 01:54:43 2009
From: parkforestmet at hotmail.com (bill kies)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 00:54:43 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold
	ofChicago...wasnwa	1794
In-Reply-To: <93aaac890904012234u789fe598w176d5f4088defa05@mail.gmail.com>
References: <SNT102-W42E54AF62C6598BA83FF0FA2880@phx.gbl>
	<93aaac890904012143ieb3aaf2n545fa4d66fc66119@mail.gmail.com>
	<31BBEA91B8B84D9086B3233624BE72A4@QED> 
	<93aaac890904012234u789fe598w176d5f4088defa05@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SNT102-W23C9057BC26A282E10FBBBA2880@phx.gbl>


Good Spirit? Never Derogatory? Generally meteorite related? Are you talking about sSteve? You must be one of his freebie zombies or waiting like so many others to benefit from his erratic business sense. Please do a history check and drop the subject.
 


----------------------------------------
> Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 22:34:07 -0700
> From: meteoritekid at gmail.com
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold ofChicago...wasnwa 1794
>
> Bill,
> You are breaking list policy as much as he is in posting as you do, if
> not more. His posts do break the suggested limit for posts in a given
> time period, but they are always in good spirit, never derogatory, and
> are generally meteorite-related. Get off your high-horses and accept
> the fact that no matter how wrong he is, you're stooping to below his
> level in posting as you do. If you wanted Art to take action, you
> should have messaged him, not me. I don't think I'm wrong in assuming
> that the rest of the folks out there share that sentiment. If we had
> a problem with Steve, we would have blocked him. As could you. The
> fact that you haven't seems to suggest that you like the opportunity
> to harass him.
> And you call him annoying.
> I won't criticize or support him; I personally don't care for or
> dislike his messages. They're there, and your posts aren't going to
> change that.
>
> You're the one with the ability to change, to take the higher road.
>
> Mark,
> I know, but I think it's obvious enough, almost a decade down the
> line, that things are not going to change.
> This has been going on for, well, combine world the first and second
> world wars. That's about how long.
> Longer than the occupation of Iraq, and half the length of the Vietnam War.
> You'd think that, at some point, people would begin to understand the
> futility of their own actions.
> And at some point, I would think it prudent for certain people to
> realize that the effort they take to spearhead this effort against him
> is really done for the sake of hundreds of people who couldn't care
> less. And the level to which they take action against him for being,
> what amounts to at worst, a simpleton, is beyond me. Litigiousness in
> the sense Elton seems to be advocating is, in my mind, much worse than
> anything Steve has ever done - and, given the past, considerably worse
> than what he seems capable of doing.
>
> Jason
>
> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 10:00 PM, Mark Grossman wrote:
>> Without taking any sides pro or con re the particulars of Steve's actions:
>>
>>> There's a brick wall there, and no matter how long you persist in
>>> throwing yourselves against it, it's not budging, regardless of how
>>> right (or wrong) you are in doing so. You're not going to change him,
>>> or the situation in general.
>>
>> What a sad state of affairs Jason has described regarding the status of the
>> biggest meteorite list in the world - no matter which side of the fence you
>> are on.
>>
>> Mark Grossman
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jason Utas" 
>> To: "Meteorite-list" 
>> Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 12:43 AM
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold ofChicago...wasnwa
>> 1794
>>
>>
>>> Hola,
>>> I would again like to point out that, even though his posts may be
>>> repetitive and annoying to some - maybe even most - of the
>>> list-members who have yet to block him (you might give it a try if
>>> you're so annoyed), well, the simple fact of the matter is that a
>>> single one of his posts just elicited four utterly negative responses.
>>> I *still* find it hypocritical that you lot insist on spamming more
>>> than he does. I recall saying at least a few years ago - you're not
>>> going to stop him, and going about it the way you are - or any way,
>>> really, isn't going to do anything.
>>> I was apparently right.
>>> There's a brick wall there, and no matter how long you persist in
>>> throwing yourselves against it, it's not budging, regardless of how
>>> right (or wrong) you are in doing so. You're not going to change him,
>>> or the situation in general. Why not give the rest of us a bit of a
>>> respite from the constant haranguing and leave him be, eh? One fifth
>>> the spam would be nice.
>>> Jason
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 9:26 PM, bill kies 
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Mr. Tate,
>>>>
>>>> At a glance this situation might look silly but April 1st or not, sSteve
>>>> has been entertaining himself at the expense of this list for almost a
>>>> decade. People can only tolerate so much. We, list members, have managed the
>>>> bad taste and poor humor well enough. Don't rush to judgement unless you've
>>>> read the archives extensively and understand what this fellow is all about.
>>>>
>>>> Bill
>>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>> Quick access to your favorite MSN content and Windows Live with Internet
>>>> Explorer 8.
>>>>
>>>> http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B037MSN55C0701A
>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>>
>>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
_________________________________________________________________
Rediscover Hotmail?: Get quick friend updates right in your inbox. 
http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Updates1_042009

From meteoritekid at gmail.com  Thu Apr  2 02:18:06 2009
From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 23:18:06 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold ofChicago...wasnwa
	1794
In-Reply-To: <SNT102-W23C9057BC26A282E10FBBBA2880@phx.gbl>
References: <SNT102-W42E54AF62C6598BA83FF0FA2880@phx.gbl>
	<93aaac890904012143ieb3aaf2n545fa4d66fc66119@mail.gmail.com>
	<31BBEA91B8B84D9086B3233624BE72A4@QED>
	<93aaac890904012234u789fe598w176d5f4088defa05@mail.gmail.com>
	<SNT102-W23C9057BC26A282E10FBBBA2880@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <93aaac890904012318w2215be42m8e6d68e8e13a0be6@mail.gmail.com>

Bill,
I have never asked for, nor received one of his freebies, though I
will admit to having purchased meteorites from him at more than
reasonable prices.  But you apparently have a problem with someone
giving away meteorites on a regular basis, and with someone who
doesn't use a sense of business typical of most meteorite dealers.

But that's my point, really.

I've been here, on this list, for eleven years, and, to be perfectly
frank, you're the problem, not him.  He's not the person who turns
people away from the hobby; it's mean-spirited people like you who
make others feel unwelcome.
His posts have never been derogatory.  Ill-conceived, maybe.  Lacking
foresight, probably in many cases.
- But malevolent, like yours, never.

Many people have many things to thank him for, including great deals
and free space rocks for some of the less-well-off collectors.
But he posts too many messages for you.  I'll say it again - third
time's the charm, right?
Block him if you have an issue.  I know for a fact that Hotmail has
that function.

I actually disagree with Mark on this; the list really hasn't changed
all that much in the time I've been here.  A number of old-timers have
moved on, and there -are- a much greater number of newcomers has
arrived in the past few years, but the same old bickering goes on, and
on, and on.  You're just the next person to take up the anti-Steve
mantle.  If you look back in the archives, that's something you will
actually find.

If the list is suffering, it's not from him; he's been a constant here
for a decade, and this list has yet to collapse in upon itself.  The
list remains *the* list, and I've yet to hear of someone actually
leaving the list because of Steve.  If they have, well, I'm sad that
they didn't find the block button sooner.  If you look back at the
archives, people typically leave because of this godawful bickering.
The stuff you're doing.  The only reason I feel it might do some good
is because it really has been getting worse lately - and I figure it
might be worth pointing out that block function to you lot.

Elton's argument really is ridiculous, in retrospect.  He likely
bought something from Steve at a rock-bottom price and is now
harassing him, having just benefitted from Steve's...unorthodox
business techniques.  Glaringly hypocritical, and talk about good
faith.  As though he really expected Steve to leave anyways.  If he
did, well, I think it shows something about his own intelligence.

Jason

On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 10:54 PM, bill kies <parkforestmet at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Good Spirit? Never Derogatory? Generally meteorite related? Are you talking about sSteve? You must be one of his freebie zombies or waiting like so many others to benefit from his erratic business sense. Please do a history check and drop the subject.
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------
>> Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 22:34:07 -0700
>> From: meteoritekid at gmail.com
>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold ofChicago...wasnwa 1794
>>
>> Bill,
>> You are breaking list policy as much as he is in posting as you do, if
>> not more. His posts do break the suggested limit for posts in a given
>> time period, but they are always in good spirit, never derogatory, and
>> are generally meteorite-related. Get off your high-horses and accept
>> the fact that no matter how wrong he is, you're stooping to below his
>> level in posting as you do. If you wanted Art to take action, you
>> should have messaged him, not me. I don't think I'm wrong in assuming
>> that the rest of the folks out there share that sentiment. If we had
>> a problem with Steve, we would have blocked him. As could you. The
>> fact that you haven't seems to suggest that you like the opportunity
>> to harass him.
>> And you call him annoying.
>> I won't criticize or support him; I personally don't care for or
>> dislike his messages. They're there, and your posts aren't going to
>> change that.
>>
>> You're the one with the ability to change, to take the higher road.
>>
>> Mark,
>> I know, but I think it's obvious enough, almost a decade down the
>> line, that things are not going to change.
>> This has been going on for, well, combine world the first and second
>> world wars. That's about how long.
>> Longer than the occupation of Iraq, and half the length of the Vietnam War.
>> You'd think that, at some point, people would begin to understand the
>> futility of their own actions.
>> And at some point, I would think it prudent for certain people to
>> realize that the effort they take to spearhead this effort against him
>> is really done for the sake of hundreds of people who couldn't care
>> less. And the level to which they take action against him for being,
>> what amounts to at worst, a simpleton, is beyond me. Litigiousness in
>> the sense Elton seems to be advocating is, in my mind, much worse than
>> anything Steve has ever done - and, given the past, considerably worse
>> than what he seems capable of doing.
>>
>> Jason
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 10:00 PM, Mark Grossman wrote:
>>> Without taking any sides pro or con re the particulars of Steve's actions:
>>>
>>>> There's a brick wall there, and no matter how long you persist in
>>>> throwing yourselves against it, it's not budging, regardless of how
>>>> right (or wrong) you are in doing so. You're not going to change him,
>>>> or the situation in general.
>>>
>>> What a sad state of affairs Jason has described regarding the status of the
>>> biggest meteorite list in the world - no matter which side of the fence you
>>> are on.
>>>
>>> Mark Grossman
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jason Utas"
>>> To: "Meteorite-list"
>>> Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 12:43 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold ofChicago...wasnwa
>>> 1794
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hola,
>>>> I would again like to point out that, even though his posts may be
>>>> repetitive and annoying to some - maybe even most - of the
>>>> list-members who have yet to block him (you might give it a try if
>>>> you're so annoyed), well, the simple fact of the matter is that a
>>>> single one of his posts just elicited four utterly negative responses.
>>>> I *still* find it hypocritical that you lot insist on spamming more
>>>> than he does. I recall saying at least a few years ago - you're not
>>>> going to stop him, and going about it the way you are - or any way,
>>>> really, isn't going to do anything.
>>>> I was apparently right.
>>>> There's a brick wall there, and no matter how long you persist in
>>>> throwing yourselves against it, it's not budging, regardless of how
>>>> right (or wrong) you are in doing so. You're not going to change him,
>>>> or the situation in general. Why not give the rest of us a bit of a
>>>> respite from the constant haranguing and leave him be, eh? One fifth
>>>> the spam would be nice.
>>>> Jason
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 9:26 PM, bill kies
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Mr. Tate,
>>>>>
>>>>> At a glance this situation might look silly but April 1st or not, sSteve
>>>>> has been entertaining himself at the expense of this list for almost a
>>>>> decade. People can only tolerate so much. We, list members, have managed the
>>>>> bad taste and poor humor well enough. Don't rush to judgement unless you've
>>>>> read the archives extensively and understand what this fellow is all about.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bill
>>>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>>> Quick access to your favorite MSN content and Windows Live with Internet
>>>>> Explorer 8.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B037MSN55C0701A
>>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>>
>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> _________________________________________________________________
> Rediscover Hotmail?: Get quick friend updates right in your inbox.
> http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Updates1_042009

From erikfwebb at msn.com  Thu Apr  2 02:55:03 2009
From: erikfwebb at msn.com (Erik Fisler)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 23:55:03 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold
	ofChicago...wasnwa	1794
In-Reply-To: <93aaac890904012318w2215be42m8e6d68e8e13a0be6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <SNT102-W42E54AF62C6598BA83FF0FA2880@phx.gbl>
	<93aaac890904012143ieb3aaf2n545fa4d66fc66119@mail.gmail.com>
	<31BBEA91B8B84D9086B3233624BE72A4@QED>
	<93aaac890904012234u789fe598w176d5f4088defa05@mail.gmail.com>
	<SNT102-W23C9057BC26A282E10FBBBA2880@phx.gbl> 
	<93aaac890904012318w2215be42m8e6d68e8e13a0be6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <COL119-W352DF053E889E86E4045FAA4880@phx.gbl>


 
Alright Jason, you have stated your opinion now respectfully drop it,
or continue to say the same thing over and over in different words...

Standing up for what you believe is important and no one should ever
listen to anyone who says to not even bother to stand up for what they
believe or to give up. That is WRONG.
 
[Erik]
 

> Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 23:18:06 -0700
> From: meteoritekid at gmail.com
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold ofChicago...wasnwa 1794
> 
> Bill,
> I have never asked for, nor received one of his freebies, though I
> will admit to having purchased meteorites from him at more than
> reasonable prices. But you apparently have a problem with someone
> giving away meteorites on a regular basis, and with someone who
> doesn't use a sense of business typical of most meteorite dealers.
> 
> But that's my point, really.
> 
> I've been here, on this list, for eleven years, and, to be perfectly
> frank, you're the problem, not him. He's not the person who turns
> people away from the hobby; it's mean-spirited people like you who
> make others feel unwelcome.
> His posts have never been derogatory. Ill-conceived, maybe. Lacking
> foresight, probably in many cases.
> - But malevolent, like yours, never.
> 
> Many people have many things to thank him for, including great deals
> and free space rocks for some of the less-well-off collectors.
> But he posts too many messages for you. I'll say it again - third
> time's the charm, right?
> Block him if you have an issue. I know for a fact that Hotmail has
> that function.
> 
> I actually disagree with Mark on this; the list really hasn't changed
> all that much in the time I've been here. A number of old-timers have
> moved on, and there -are- a much greater number of newcomers has
> arrived in the past few years, but the same old bickering goes on, and
> on, and on. You're just the next person to take up the anti-Steve
> mantle. If you look back in the archives, that's something you will
> actually find.
> 
> If the list is suffering, it's not from him; he's been a constant here
> for a decade, and this list has yet to collapse in upon itself. The
> list remains *the* list, and I've yet to hear of someone actually
> leaving the list because of Steve. If they have, well, I'm sad that
> they didn't find the block button sooner. If you look back at the
> archives, people typically leave because of this godawful bickering.
> The stuff you're doing. The only reason I feel it might do some good
> is because it really has been getting worse lately - and I figure it
> might be worth pointing out that block function to you lot.
> 
> Elton's argument really is ridiculous, in retrospect. He likely
> bought something from Steve at a rock-bottom price and is now
> harassing him, having just benefitted from Steve's...unorthodox
> business techniques. Glaringly hypocritical, and talk about good
> faith. As though he really expected Steve to leave anyways. If he
> did, well, I think it shows something about his own intelligence.
> 
> Jason
> 
> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 10:54 PM, bill kies  wrote:
>>
>> Good Spirit? Never Derogatory? Generally meteorite related? Are you talking about sSteve? You must be one of his freebie zombies or waiting like so many others to benefit from his erratic business sense. Please do a history check and drop the subject.
>>
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------
>>> Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 22:34:07 -0700
>>> From: meteoritekid at gmail.com
>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold ofChicago...wasnwa 1794
>>>
>>> Bill,
>>> You are breaking list policy as much as he is in posting as you do, if
>>> not more. His posts do break the suggested limit for posts in a given
>>> time period, but they are always in good spirit, never derogatory, and
>>> are generally meteorite-related. Get off your high-horses and accept
>>> the fact that no matter how wrong he is, you're stooping to below his
>>> level in posting as you do. If you wanted Art to take action, you
>>> should have messaged him, not me. I don't think I'm wrong in assuming
>>> that the rest of the folks out there share that sentiment. If we had
>>> a problem with Steve, we would have blocked him. As could you. The
>>> fact that you haven't seems to suggest that you like the opportunity
>>> to harass him.
>>> And you call him annoying.
>>> I won't criticize or support him; I personally don't care for or
>>> dislike his messages. They're there, and your posts aren't going to
>>> change that.
>>>
>>> You're the one with the ability to change, to take the higher road.
>>>
>>> Mark,
>>> I know, but I think it's obvious enough, almost a decade down the
>>> line, that things are not going to change.
>>> This has been going on for, well, combine world the first and second
>>> world wars. That's about how long.
>>> Longer than the occupation of Iraq, and half the length of the Vietnam War.
>>> You'd think that, at some point, people would begin to understand the
>>> futility of their own actions.
>>> And at some point, I would think it prudent for certain people to
>>> realize that the effort they take to spearhead this effort against him
>>> is really done for the sake of hundreds of people who couldn't care
>>> less. And the level to which they take action against him for being,
>>> what amounts to at worst, a simpleton, is beyond me. Litigiousness in
>>> the sense Elton seems to be advocating is, in my mind, much worse than
>>> anything Steve has ever done - and, given the past, considerably worse
>>> than what he seems capable of doing.
>>>
>>> Jason
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 10:00 PM, Mark Grossman wrote:
>>>> Without taking any sides pro or con re the particulars of Steve's actions:
>>>>
>>>>> There's a brick wall there, and no matter how long you persist in
>>>>> throwing yourselves against it, it's not budging, regardless of how
>>>>> right (or wrong) you are in doing so. You're not going to change him,
>>>>> or the situation in general.
>>>>
>>>> What a sad state of affairs Jason has described regarding the status of the
>>>> biggest meteorite list in the world - no matter which side of the fence you
>>>> are on.
>>>>
>>>> Mark Grossman
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jason Utas"
>>>> To: "Meteorite-list"
>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 12:43 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold ofChicago...wasnwa
>>>> 1794
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hola,
>>>>> I would again like to point out that, even though his posts may be
>>>>> repetitive and annoying to some - maybe even most - of the
>>>>> list-members who have yet to block him (you might give it a try if
>>>>> you're so annoyed), well, the simple fact of the matter is that a
>>>>> single one of his posts just elicited four utterly negative responses.
>>>>> I *still* find it hypocritical that you lot insist on spamming more
>>>>> than he does. I recall saying at least a few years ago - you're not
>>>>> going to stop him, and going about it the way you are - or any way,
>>>>> really, isn't going to do anything.
>>>>> I was apparently right.
>>>>> There's a brick wall there, and no matter how long you persist in
>>>>> throwing yourselves against it, it's not budging, regardless of how
>>>>> right (or wrong) you are in doing so. You're not going to change him,
>>>>> or the situation in general. Why not give the rest of us a bit of a
>>>>> respite from the constant haranguing and leave him be, eh? One fifth
>>>>> the spam would be nice.
>>>>> Jason
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 9:26 PM, bill kies
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mr. Tate,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At a glance this situation might look silly but April 1st or not, sSteve
>>>>>> has been entertaining himself at the expense of this list for almost a
>>>>>> decade. People can only tolerate so much. We, list members, have managed the
>>>>>> bad taste and poor humor well enough. Don't rush to judgement unless you've
>>>>>> read the archives extensively and understand what this fellow is all about.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>>>> Quick access to your favorite MSN content and Windows Live with Internet
>>>>>> Explorer 8.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B037MSN55C0701A
>>>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>>>
>>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Rediscover Hotmail?: Get quick friend updates right in your inbox.
>> http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Updates1_042009
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

From meteoritekid at gmail.com  Thu Apr  2 03:13:01 2009
From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 00:13:01 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold ofChicago...wasnwa
	1794
In-Reply-To: <COL119-W352DF053E889E86E4045FAA4880@phx.gbl>
References: <SNT102-W42E54AF62C6598BA83FF0FA2880@phx.gbl>
	<93aaac890904012143ieb3aaf2n545fa4d66fc66119@mail.gmail.com>
	<31BBEA91B8B84D9086B3233624BE72A4@QED>
	<93aaac890904012234u789fe598w176d5f4088defa05@mail.gmail.com>
	<SNT102-W23C9057BC26A282E10FBBBA2880@phx.gbl>
	<93aaac890904012318w2215be42m8e6d68e8e13a0be6@mail.gmail.com>
	<COL119-W352DF053E889E86E4045FAA4880@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <93aaac890904020013y167d483fnf14fcb600a37bc20@mail.gmail.com>

Erik,
You just told me not to stand up for what I believe in.
So you're telling me to stop standing up for what I believe in,
because, you say, telling people to not stand up for what they believe
in - doing that is wrong.
Of course, the implications of your statement are interesting.  If we
all followed that logic, whoever spoke first in any situation would be
simply infallible.  Anyone who disagreed, standing up for what they
believed in, would be telling someone that they couldn't believe what
they wanted to.  Wouldn't that be an interesting world.
At any rate, Erik, I say they have the right to block Steve, just as
Steve has the right to post.  In fact, by your own reasoning, because
Steve must have sent a message to the list before someone criticized
him for doing so (logic), the people who harass him are really just
keeping (or *trying* to keep) Steve from 'standing up for what he
believes in.'
So they're still the wrong ones by your reasoning, because he must
have preceded his naysayers.  I'm advocating free speech in the sense
that I believe that these people are merely being hypocritical.
They've been annoying the lot of us for ten years trying to get him to
stop.  I'm saying that they should stop sending me messages, because I
don't like their insults and nasty messages.
Furthermore, they could accomplish their collective goal of abolishing
Steve from their inboxes by simply blocking him.  It seems obvious to
me, at this juncture, that they really just like harassing someone in
public and being able to get away with it.  I'm sure you've met some
bullies in your time - welcome to the meteorite list.
Jason

P.S. It also seems to me that your message lacks 'valor.'

On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 11:55 PM, Erik Fisler <erikfwebb at msn.com> wrote:
>
>
> Alright Jason, you have stated your opinion now respectfully drop it,
> or continue to say the same thing over and over in different words...
>
> Standing up for what you believe is important and no one should ever
> listen to anyone who says to not even bother to stand up for what they
> believe or to give up. That is WRONG.
>
> [Erik]
>
>
>> Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 23:18:06 -0700
>> From: meteoritekid at gmail.com
>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold ofChicago...wasnwa 1794
>>
>> Bill,
>> I have never asked for, nor received one of his freebies, though I
>> will admit to having purchased meteorites from him at more than
>> reasonable prices. But you apparently have a problem with someone
>> giving away meteorites on a regular basis, and with someone who
>> doesn't use a sense of business typical of most meteorite dealers.
>>
>> But that's my point, really.
>>
>> I've been here, on this list, for eleven years, and, to be perfectly
>> frank, you're the problem, not him. He's not the person who turns
>> people away from the hobby; it's mean-spirited people like you who
>> make others feel unwelcome.
>> His posts have never been derogatory. Ill-conceived, maybe. Lacking
>> foresight, probably in many cases.
>> - But malevolent, like yours, never.
>>
>> Many people have many things to thank him for, including great deals
>> and free space rocks for some of the less-well-off collectors.
>> But he posts too many messages for you. I'll say it again - third
>> time's the charm, right?
>> Block him if you have an issue. I know for a fact that Hotmail has
>> that function.
>>
>> I actually disagree with Mark on this; the list really hasn't changed
>> all that much in the time I've been here. A number of old-timers have
>> moved on, and there -are- a much greater number of newcomers has
>> arrived in the past few years, but the same old bickering goes on, and
>> on, and on. You're just the next person to take up the anti-Steve
>> mantle. If you look back in the archives, that's something you will
>> actually find.
>>
>> If the list is suffering, it's not from him; he's been a constant here
>> for a decade, and this list has yet to collapse in upon itself. The
>> list remains *the* list, and I've yet to hear of someone actually
>> leaving the list because of Steve. If they have, well, I'm sad that
>> they didn't find the block button sooner. If you look back at the
>> archives, people typically leave because of this godawful bickering.
>> The stuff you're doing. The only reason I feel it might do some good
>> is because it really has been getting worse lately - and I figure it
>> might be worth pointing out that block function to you lot.
>>
>> Elton's argument really is ridiculous, in retrospect. He likely
>> bought something from Steve at a rock-bottom price and is now
>> harassing him, having just benefitted from Steve's...unorthodox
>> business techniques. Glaringly hypocritical, and talk about good
>> faith. As though he really expected Steve to leave anyways. If he
>> did, well, I think it shows something about his own intelligence.
>>
>> Jason
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 10:54 PM, bill kies ?wrote:
>>>
>>> Good Spirit? Never Derogatory? Generally meteorite related? Are you talking about sSteve? You must be one of his freebie zombies or waiting like so many others to benefit from his erratic business sense. Please do a history check and drop the subject.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------
>>>> Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 22:34:07 -0700
>>>> From: meteoritekid at gmail.com
>>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold ofChicago...wasnwa 1794
>>>>
>>>> Bill,
>>>> You are breaking list policy as much as he is in posting as you do, if
>>>> not more. His posts do break the suggested limit for posts in a given
>>>> time period, but they are always in good spirit, never derogatory, and
>>>> are generally meteorite-related. Get off your high-horses and accept
>>>> the fact that no matter how wrong he is, you're stooping to below his
>>>> level in posting as you do. If you wanted Art to take action, you
>>>> should have messaged him, not me. I don't think I'm wrong in assuming
>>>> that the rest of the folks out there share that sentiment. If we had
>>>> a problem with Steve, we would have blocked him. As could you. The
>>>> fact that you haven't seems to suggest that you like the opportunity
>>>> to harass him.
>>>> And you call him annoying.
>>>> I won't criticize or support him; I personally don't care for or
>>>> dislike his messages. They're there, and your posts aren't going to
>>>> change that.
>>>>
>>>> You're the one with the ability to change, to take the higher road.
>>>>
>>>> Mark,
>>>> I know, but I think it's obvious enough, almost a decade down the
>>>> line, that things are not going to change.
>>>> This has been going on for, well, combine world the first and second
>>>> world wars. That's about how long.
>>>> Longer than the occupation of Iraq, and half the length of the Vietnam War.
>>>> You'd think that, at some point, people would begin to understand the
>>>> futility of their own actions.
>>>> And at some point, I would think it prudent for certain people to
>>>> realize that the effort they take to spearhead this effort against him
>>>> is really done for the sake of hundreds of people who couldn't care
>>>> less. And the level to which they take action against him for being,
>>>> what amounts to at worst, a simpleton, is beyond me. Litigiousness in
>>>> the sense Elton seems to be advocating is, in my mind, much worse than
>>>> anything Steve has ever done - and, given the past, considerably worse
>>>> than what he seems capable of doing.
>>>>
>>>> Jason
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 10:00 PM, Mark Grossman wrote:
>>>>> Without taking any sides pro or con re the particulars of Steve's actions:
>>>>>
>>>>>> There's a brick wall there, and no matter how long you persist in
>>>>>> throwing yourselves against it, it's not budging, regardless of how
>>>>>> right (or wrong) you are in doing so. You're not going to change him,
>>>>>> or the situation in general.
>>>>>
>>>>> What a sad state of affairs Jason has described regarding the status of the
>>>>> biggest meteorite list in the world - no matter which side of the fence you
>>>>> are on.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mark Grossman
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jason Utas"
>>>>> To: "Meteorite-list"
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 12:43 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold ofChicago...wasnwa
>>>>> 1794
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hola,
>>>>>> I would again like to point out that, even though his posts may be
>>>>>> repetitive and annoying to some - maybe even most - of the
>>>>>> list-members who have yet to block him (you might give it a try if
>>>>>> you're so annoyed), well, the simple fact of the matter is that a
>>>>>> single one of his posts just elicited four utterly negative responses.
>>>>>> I *still* find it hypocritical that you lot insist on spamming more
>>>>>> than he does. I recall saying at least a few years ago - you're not
>>>>>> going to stop him, and going about it the way you are - or any way,
>>>>>> really, isn't going to do anything.
>>>>>> I was apparently right.
>>>>>> There's a brick wall there, and no matter how long you persist in
>>>>>> throwing yourselves against it, it's not budging, regardless of how
>>>>>> right (or wrong) you are in doing so. You're not going to change him,
>>>>>> or the situation in general. Why not give the rest of us a bit of a
>>>>>> respite from the constant haranguing and leave him be, eh? One fifth
>>>>>> the spam would be nice.
>>>>>> Jason
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 9:26 PM, bill kies
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mr. Tate,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> At a glance this situation might look silly but April 1st or not, sSteve
>>>>>>> has been entertaining himself at the expense of this list for almost a
>>>>>>> decade. People can only tolerate so much. We, list members, have managed the
>>>>>>> bad taste and poor humor well enough. Don't rush to judgement unless you've
>>>>>>> read the archives extensively and understand what this fellow is all about.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>> Quick access to your favorite MSN content and Windows Live with Internet
>>>>>>> Explorer 8.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B037MSN55C0701A
>>>>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>> Rediscover Hotmail?: Get quick friend updates right in your inbox.
>>> http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Updates1_042009
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>

From erikfwebb at msn.com  Thu Apr  2 03:15:07 2009
From: erikfwebb at msn.com (Erik Fisler)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 00:15:07 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold
	ofChicago...wasnwa	1794
In-Reply-To: <93aaac890904020013y167d483fnf14fcb600a37bc20@mail.gmail.com>
References: <SNT102-W42E54AF62C6598BA83FF0FA2880@phx.gbl>
	<93aaac890904012143ieb3aaf2n545fa4d66fc66119@mail.gmail.com>
	<31BBEA91B8B84D9086B3233624BE72A4@QED>
	<93aaac890904012234u789fe598w176d5f4088defa05@mail.gmail.com>
	<SNT102-W23C9057BC26A282E10FBBBA2880@phx.gbl>
	<93aaac890904012318w2215be42m8e6d68e8e13a0be6@mail.gmail.com>
	<COL119-W352DF053E889E86E4045FAA4880@phx.gbl> 
	<93aaac890904020013y167d483fnf14fcb600a37bc20@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <COL119-W34509694226F7808B53E44A4880@phx.gbl>


you know what I meant  Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 00:13:01 -0700
> From: meteoritekid at gmail.com
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold ofChicago...wasnwa 1794
>
> Erik,
> You just told me not to stand up for what I believe in.
> So you're telling me to stop standing up for what I believe in,
> because, you say, telling people to not stand up for what they believe
> in - doing that is wrong.
> Of course, the implications of your statement are interesting. If we
> all followed that logic, whoever spoke first in any situation would be
> simply infallible. Anyone who disagreed, standing up for what they
> believed in, would be telling someone that they couldn't believe what
> they wanted to. Wouldn't that be an interesting world.
> At any rate, Erik, I say they have the right to block Steve, just as
> Steve has the right to post. In fact, by your own reasoning, because
> Steve must have sent a message to the list before someone criticized
> him for doing so (logic), the people who harass him are really just
> keeping (or *trying* to keep) Steve from 'standing up for what he
> believes in.'
> So they're still the wrong ones by your reasoning, because he must
> have preceded his naysayers. I'm advocating free speech in the sense
> that I believe that these people are merely being hypocritical.
> They've been annoying the lot of us for ten years trying to get him to
> stop. I'm saying that they should stop sending me messages, because I
> don't like their insults and nasty messages.
> Furthermore, they could accomplish their collective goal of abolishing
> Steve from their inboxes by simply blocking him. It seems obvious to
> me, at this juncture, that they really just like harassing someone in
> public and being able to get away with it. I'm sure you've met some
> bullies in your time - welcome to the meteorite list.
> Jason
>
> P.S. It also seems to me that your message lacks 'valor.'
>
> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 11:55 PM, Erik Fisler wrote:
>>
>>
>> Alright Jason, you have stated your opinion now respectfully drop it,
>> or continue to say the same thing over and over in different words...
>>
>> Standing up for what you believe is important and no one should ever
>> listen to anyone who says to not even bother to stand up for what they
>> believe or to give up. That is WRONG.
>>
>> [Erik]
>>
>>
>>> Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 23:18:06 -0700
>>> From: meteoritekid at gmail.com
>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold ofChicago...wasnwa 1794
>>>
>>> Bill,
>>> I have never asked for, nor received one of his freebies, though I
>>> will admit to having purchased meteorites from him at more than
>>> reasonable prices. But you apparently have a problem with someone
>>> giving away meteorites on a regular basis, and with someone who
>>> doesn't use a sense of business typical of most meteorite dealers.
>>>
>>> But that's my point, really.
>>>
>>> I've been here, on this list, for eleven years, and, to be perfectly
>>> frank, you're the problem, not him. He's not the person who turns
>>> people away from the hobby; it's mean-spirited people like you who
>>> make others feel unwelcome.
>>> His posts have never been derogatory. Ill-conceived, maybe. Lacking
>>> foresight, probably in many cases.
>>> - But malevolent, like yours, never.
>>>
>>> Many people have many things to thank him for, including great deals
>>> and free space rocks for some of the less-well-off collectors.
>>> But he posts too many messages for you. I'll say it again - third
>>> time's the charm, right?
>>> Block him if you have an issue. I know for a fact that Hotmail has
>>> that function.
>>>
>>> I actually disagree with Mark on this; the list really hasn't changed
>>> all that much in the time I've been here. A number of old-timers have
>>> moved on, and there -are- a much greater number of newcomers has
>>> arrived in the past few years, but the same old bickering goes on, and
>>> on, and on. You're just the next person to take up the anti-Steve
>>> mantle. If you look back in the archives, that's something you will
>>> actually find.
>>>
>>> If the list is suffering, it's not from him; he's been a constant here
>>> for a decade, and this list has yet to collapse in upon itself. The
>>> list remains *the* list, and I've yet to hear of someone actually
>>> leaving the list because of Steve. If they have, well, I'm sad that
>>> they didn't find the block button sooner. If you look back at the
>>> archives, people typically leave because of this godawful bickering.
>>> The stuff you're doing. The only reason I feel it might do some good
>>> is because it really has been getting worse lately - and I figure it
>>> might be worth pointing out that block function to you lot.
>>>
>>> Elton's argument really is ridiculous, in retrospect. He likely
>>> bought something from Steve at a rock-bottom price and is now
>>> harassing him, having just benefitted from Steve's...unorthodox
>>> business techniques. Glaringly hypocritical, and talk about good
>>> faith. As though he really expected Steve to leave anyways. If he
>>> did, well, I think it shows something about his own intelligence.
>>>
>>> Jason
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 10:54 PM, bill kies wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Good Spirit? Never Derogatory? Generally meteorite related? Are you talking about sSteve? You must be one of his freebie zombies or waiting like so many others to benefit from his erratic business sense. Please do a history check and drop the subject.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----------------------------------------
>>>>> Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 22:34:07 -0700
>>>>> From: meteoritekid at gmail.com
>>>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold ofChicago...wasnwa 1794
>>>>>
>>>>> Bill,
>>>>> You are breaking list policy as much as he is in posting as you do, if
>>>>> not more. His posts do break the suggested limit for posts in a given
>>>>> time period, but they are always in good spirit, never derogatory, and
>>>>> are generally meteorite-related. Get off your high-horses and accept
>>>>> the fact that no matter how wrong he is, you're stooping to below his
>>>>> level in posting as you do. If you wanted Art to take action, you
>>>>> should have messaged him, not me. I don't think I'm wrong in assuming
>>>>> that the rest of the folks out there share that sentiment. If we had
>>>>> a problem with Steve, we would have blocked him. As could you. The
>>>>> fact that you haven't seems to suggest that you like the opportunity
>>>>> to harass him.
>>>>> And you call him annoying.
>>>>> I won't criticize or support him; I personally don't care for or
>>>>> dislike his messages. They're there, and your posts aren't going to
>>>>> change that.
>>>>>
>>>>> You're the one with the ability to change, to take the higher road.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mark,
>>>>> I know, but I think it's obvious enough, almost a decade down the
>>>>> line, that things are not going to change.
>>>>> This has been going on for, well, combine world the first and second
>>>>> world wars. That's about how long.
>>>>> Longer than the occupation of Iraq, and half the length of the Vietnam War.
>>>>> You'd think that, at some point, people would begin to understand the
>>>>> futility of their own actions.
>>>>> And at some point, I would think it prudent for certain people to
>>>>> realize that the effort they take to spearhead this effort against him
>>>>> is really done for the sake of hundreds of people who couldn't care
>>>>> less. And the level to which they take action against him for being,
>>>>> what amounts to at worst, a simpleton, is beyond me. Litigiousness in
>>>>> the sense Elton seems to be advocating is, in my mind, much worse than
>>>>> anything Steve has ever done - and, given the past, considerably worse
>>>>> than what he seems capable of doing.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jason
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 10:00 PM, Mark Grossman wrote:
>>>>>> Without taking any sides pro or con re the particulars of Steve's actions:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There's a brick wall there, and no matter how long you persist in
>>>>>>> throwing yourselves against it, it's not budging, regardless of how
>>>>>>> right (or wrong) you are in doing so. You're not going to change him,
>>>>>>> or the situation in general.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What a sad state of affairs Jason has described regarding the status of the
>>>>>> biggest meteorite list in the world - no matter which side of the fence you
>>>>>> are on.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mark Grossman
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jason Utas"
>>>>>> To: "Meteorite-list"
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 12:43 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold ofChicago...wasnwa
>>>>>> 1794
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hola,
>>>>>>> I would again like to point out that, even though his posts may be
>>>>>>> repetitive and annoying to some - maybe even most - of the
>>>>>>> list-members who have yet to block him (you might give it a try if
>>>>>>> you're so annoyed), well, the simple fact of the matter is that a
>>>>>>> single one of his posts just elicited four utterly negative responses.
>>>>>>> I *still* find it hypocritical that you lot insist on spamming more
>>>>>>> than he does. I recall saying at least a few years ago - you're not
>>>>>>> going to stop him, and going about it the way you are - or any way,
>>>>>>> really, isn't going to do anything.
>>>>>>> I was apparently right.
>>>>>>> There's a brick wall there, and no matter how long you persist in
>>>>>>> throwing yourselves against it, it's not budging, regardless of how
>>>>>>> right (or wrong) you are in doing so. You're not going to change him,
>>>>>>> or the situation in general. Why not give the rest of us a bit of a
>>>>>>> respite from the constant haranguing and leave him be, eh? One fifth
>>>>>>> the spam would be nice.
>>>>>>> Jason
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 9:26 PM, bill kies
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Mr. Tate,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> At a glance this situation might look silly but April 1st or not, sSteve
>>>>>>>> has been entertaining himself at the expense of this list for almost a
>>>>>>>> decade. People can only tolerate so much. We, list members, have managed the
>>>>>>>> bad taste and poor humor well enough. Don't rush to judgement unless you've
>>>>>>>> read the archives extensively and understand what this fellow is all about.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Quick access to your favorite MSN content and Windows Live with Internet
>>>>>>>> Explorer 8.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B037MSN55C0701A
>>>>>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>>>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>> Rediscover Hotmail?: Get quick friend updates right in your inbox.
>>>> http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Updates1_042009
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

From meteoritekid at gmail.com  Thu Apr  2 03:23:48 2009
From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 00:23:48 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold ofChicago...wasnwa
	1794
In-Reply-To: <COL119-W34509694226F7808B53E44A4880@phx.gbl>
References: <SNT102-W42E54AF62C6598BA83FF0FA2880@phx.gbl>
	<93aaac890904012143ieb3aaf2n545fa4d66fc66119@mail.gmail.com>
	<31BBEA91B8B84D9086B3233624BE72A4@QED>
	<93aaac890904012234u789fe598w176d5f4088defa05@mail.gmail.com>
	<SNT102-W23C9057BC26A282E10FBBBA2880@phx.gbl>
	<93aaac890904012318w2215be42m8e6d68e8e13a0be6@mail.gmail.com>
	<COL119-W352DF053E889E86E4045FAA4880@phx.gbl>
	<93aaac890904020013y167d483fnf14fcb600a37bc20@mail.gmail.com>
	<COL119-W34509694226F7808B53E44A4880@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <93aaac890904020023o125259dcn46b1ef1a2d7d3f1b@mail.gmail.com>

So I'm wrong for telling someone - who is telling someone  else to be
quiet - to be quiet.
That's what you said.
If you'd wanted to make sense, you should have condemned Bill all the
more, for telling someone who was just speaking their mind to shut up
- otherwise you're just being irrational.

You might as well call police guilty for trying to protect us ordinary
people from the violence of others.  If they shoot a criminal who has
their gun trained on an innocent person, is it wrong?
I'm not the police, or any sort of authority on the list - that's most
definitely not the point of my post.
But, in the analogy, you're shooting me for shooting the criminal.

It doesn't make sense.
I get what you were trying to say.
It's wrong.

Jason

On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 12:15 AM, Erik Fisler <erikfwebb at msn.com> wrote:
>
> you know what I meant ?Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 00:13:01 -0700
>> From: meteoritekid at gmail.com
>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold ofChicago...wasnwa 1794
>>
>> Erik,
>> You just told me not to stand up for what I believe in.
>> So you're telling me to stop standing up for what I believe in,
>> because, you say, telling people to not stand up for what they believe
>> in - doing that is wrong.
>> Of course, the implications of your statement are interesting. If we
>> all followed that logic, whoever spoke first in any situation would be
>> simply infallible. Anyone who disagreed, standing up for what they
>> believed in, would be telling someone that they couldn't believe what
>> they wanted to. Wouldn't that be an interesting world.
>> At any rate, Erik, I say they have the right to block Steve, just as
>> Steve has the right to post. In fact, by your own reasoning, because
>> Steve must have sent a message to the list before someone criticized
>> him for doing so (logic), the people who harass him are really just
>> keeping (or *trying* to keep) Steve from 'standing up for what he
>> believes in.'
>> So they're still the wrong ones by your reasoning, because he must
>> have preceded his naysayers. I'm advocating free speech in the sense
>> that I believe that these people are merely being hypocritical.
>> They've been annoying the lot of us for ten years trying to get him to
>> stop. I'm saying that they should stop sending me messages, because I
>> don't like their insults and nasty messages.
>> Furthermore, they could accomplish their collective goal of abolishing
>> Steve from their inboxes by simply blocking him. It seems obvious to
>> me, at this juncture, that they really just like harassing someone in
>> public and being able to get away with it. I'm sure you've met some
>> bullies in your time - welcome to the meteorite list.
>> Jason
>>
>> P.S. It also seems to me that your message lacks 'valor.'
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 11:55 PM, Erik Fisler wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Alright Jason, you have stated your opinion now respectfully drop it,
>>> or continue to say the same thing over and over in different words...
>>>
>>> Standing up for what you believe is important and no one should ever
>>> listen to anyone who says to not even bother to stand up for what they
>>> believe or to give up. That is WRONG.
>>>
>>> [Erik]
>>>
>>>
>>>> Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 23:18:06 -0700
>>>> From: meteoritekid at gmail.com
>>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold ofChicago...wasnwa 1794
>>>>
>>>> Bill,
>>>> I have never asked for, nor received one of his freebies, though I
>>>> will admit to having purchased meteorites from him at more than
>>>> reasonable prices. But you apparently have a problem with someone
>>>> giving away meteorites on a regular basis, and with someone who
>>>> doesn't use a sense of business typical of most meteorite dealers.
>>>>
>>>> But that's my point, really.
>>>>
>>>> I've been here, on this list, for eleven years, and, to be perfectly
>>>> frank, you're the problem, not him. He's not the person who turns
>>>> people away from the hobby; it's mean-spirited people like you who
>>>> make others feel unwelcome.
>>>> His posts have never been derogatory. Ill-conceived, maybe. Lacking
>>>> foresight, probably in many cases.
>>>> - But malevolent, like yours, never.
>>>>
>>>> Many people have many things to thank him for, including great deals
>>>> and free space rocks for some of the less-well-off collectors.
>>>> But he posts too many messages for you. I'll say it again - third
>>>> time's the charm, right?
>>>> Block him if you have an issue. I know for a fact that Hotmail has
>>>> that function.
>>>>
>>>> I actually disagree with Mark on this; the list really hasn't changed
>>>> all that much in the time I've been here. A number of old-timers have
>>>> moved on, and there -are- a much greater number of newcomers has
>>>> arrived in the past few years, but the same old bickering goes on, and
>>>> on, and on. You're just the next person to take up the anti-Steve
>>>> mantle. If you look back in the archives, that's something you will
>>>> actually find.
>>>>
>>>> If the list is suffering, it's not from him; he's been a constant here
>>>> for a decade, and this list has yet to collapse in upon itself. The
>>>> list remains *the* list, and I've yet to hear of someone actually
>>>> leaving the list because of Steve. If they have, well, I'm sad that
>>>> they didn't find the block button sooner. If you look back at the
>>>> archives, people typically leave because of this godawful bickering.
>>>> The stuff you're doing. The only reason I feel it might do some good
>>>> is because it really has been getting worse lately - and I figure it
>>>> might be worth pointing out that block function to you lot.
>>>>
>>>> Elton's argument really is ridiculous, in retrospect. He likely
>>>> bought something from Steve at a rock-bottom price and is now
>>>> harassing him, having just benefitted from Steve's...unorthodox
>>>> business techniques. Glaringly hypocritical, and talk about good
>>>> faith. As though he really expected Steve to leave anyways. If he
>>>> did, well, I think it shows something about his own intelligence.
>>>>
>>>> Jason
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 10:54 PM, bill kies wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Good Spirit? Never Derogatory? Generally meteorite related? Are you talking about sSteve? You must be one of his freebie zombies or waiting like so many others to benefit from his erratic business sense. Please do a history check and drop the subject.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----------------------------------------
>>>>>> Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 22:34:07 -0700
>>>>>> From: meteoritekid at gmail.com
>>>>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold ofChicago...wasnwa 1794
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bill,
>>>>>> You are breaking list policy as much as he is in posting as you do, if
>>>>>> not more. His posts do break the suggested limit for posts in a given
>>>>>> time period, but they are always in good spirit, never derogatory, and
>>>>>> are generally meteorite-related. Get off your high-horses and accept
>>>>>> the fact that no matter how wrong he is, you're stooping to below his
>>>>>> level in posting as you do. If you wanted Art to take action, you
>>>>>> should have messaged him, not me. I don't think I'm wrong in assuming
>>>>>> that the rest of the folks out there share that sentiment. If we had
>>>>>> a problem with Steve, we would have blocked him. As could you. The
>>>>>> fact that you haven't seems to suggest that you like the opportunity
>>>>>> to harass him.
>>>>>> And you call him annoying.
>>>>>> I won't criticize or support him; I personally don't care for or
>>>>>> dislike his messages. They're there, and your posts aren't going to
>>>>>> change that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You're the one with the ability to change, to take the higher road.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mark,
>>>>>> I know, but I think it's obvious enough, almost a decade down the
>>>>>> line, that things are not going to change.
>>>>>> This has been going on for, well, combine world the first and second
>>>>>> world wars. That's about how long.
>>>>>> Longer than the occupation of Iraq, and half the length of the Vietnam War.
>>>>>> You'd think that, at some point, people would begin to understand the
>>>>>> futility of their own actions.
>>>>>> And at some point, I would think it prudent for certain people to
>>>>>> realize that the effort they take to spearhead this effort against him
>>>>>> is really done for the sake of hundreds of people who couldn't care
>>>>>> less. And the level to which they take action against him for being,
>>>>>> what amounts to at worst, a simpleton, is beyond me. Litigiousness in
>>>>>> the sense Elton seems to be advocating is, in my mind, much worse than
>>>>>> anything Steve has ever done - and, given the past, considerably worse
>>>>>> than what he seems capable of doing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jason
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 10:00 PM, Mark Grossman wrote:
>>>>>>> Without taking any sides pro or con re the particulars of Steve's actions:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There's a brick wall there, and no matter how long you persist in
>>>>>>>> throwing yourselves against it, it's not budging, regardless of how
>>>>>>>> right (or wrong) you are in doing so. You're not going to change him,
>>>>>>>> or the situation in general.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What a sad state of affairs Jason has described regarding the status of the
>>>>>>> biggest meteorite list in the world - no matter which side of the fence you
>>>>>>> are on.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mark Grossman
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jason Utas"
>>>>>>> To: "Meteorite-list"
>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 12:43 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold ofChicago...wasnwa
>>>>>>> 1794
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hola,
>>>>>>>> I would again like to point out that, even though his posts may be
>>>>>>>> repetitive and annoying to some - maybe even most - of the
>>>>>>>> list-members who have yet to block him (you might give it a try if
>>>>>>>> you're so annoyed), well, the simple fact of the matter is that a
>>>>>>>> single one of his posts just elicited four utterly negative responses.
>>>>>>>> I *still* find it hypocritical that you lot insist on spamming more
>>>>>>>> than he does. I recall saying at least a few years ago - you're not
>>>>>>>> going to stop him, and going about it the way you are - or any way,
>>>>>>>> really, isn't going to do anything.
>>>>>>>> I was apparently right.
>>>>>>>> There's a brick wall there, and no matter how long you persist in
>>>>>>>> throwing yourselves against it, it's not budging, regardless of how
>>>>>>>> right (or wrong) you are in doing so. You're not going to change him,
>>>>>>>> or the situation in general. Why not give the rest of us a bit of a
>>>>>>>> respite from the constant haranguing and leave him be, eh? One fifth
>>>>>>>> the spam would be nice.
>>>>>>>> Jason
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 9:26 PM, bill kies
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Mr. Tate,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> At a glance this situation might look silly but April 1st or not, sSteve
>>>>>>>>> has been entertaining himself at the expense of this list for almost a
>>>>>>>>> decade. People can only tolerate so much. We, list members, have managed the
>>>>>>>>> bad taste and poor humor well enough. Don't rush to judgement unless you've
>>>>>>>>> read the archives extensively and understand what this fellow is all about.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Quick access to your favorite MSN content and Windows Live with Internet
>>>>>>>>> Explorer 8.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B037MSN55C0701A
>>>>>>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>>>>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>>>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>>> Rediscover Hotmail?: Get quick friend updates right in your inbox.
>>>>> http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Updates1_042009
>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>

From erikfwebb at msn.com  Thu Apr  2 03:39:10 2009
From: erikfwebb at msn.com (Erik Fisler)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 00:39:10 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold
	ofChicago...wasnwa	1794
In-Reply-To: <93aaac890904020023o125259dcn46b1ef1a2d7d3f1b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <SNT102-W42E54AF62C6598BA83FF0FA2880@phx.gbl>
	<93aaac890904012143ieb3aaf2n545fa4d66fc66119@mail.gmail.com>
	<31BBEA91B8B84D9086B3233624BE72A4@QED>
	<93aaac890904012234u789fe598w176d5f4088defa05@mail.gmail.com>
	<SNT102-W23C9057BC26A282E10FBBBA2880@phx.gbl>
	<93aaac890904012318w2215be42m8e6d68e8e13a0be6@mail.gmail.com>
	<COL119-W352DF053E889E86E4045FAA4880@phx.gbl>
	<93aaac890904020013y167d483fnf14fcb600a37bc20@mail.gmail.com>
	<COL119-W34509694226F7808B53E44A4880@phx.gbl> 
	<93aaac890904020023o125259dcn46b1ef1a2d7d3f1b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <COL119-W69DD36B90775DD14E15C2DA4880@phx.gbl>


I know you are witty, we all do but don't bunny hop
around my points by playing word games. 
This isn't the bar scene from Goodwill Hunting.
I don't want to argue with someone I respect.
I don't need to tell Bill to be quiet because you already did.
No one wants to block Steve, they just want him to slow down.
And what I meant was you, Jason, where wrong for telling someone not
to stand up for what they believe in. I did NOT mean standing up
for what you believe in is wrong.
With that said I apologize for offending you if I did...
Now lets get one with the Meteoritics...
Love, Piece, and Afro Grease and all that mushy stuff.
[Erik]

----------------------------------------
> Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 00:23:48 -0700
> From: meteoritekid at gmail.com
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold ofChicago...wasnwa 1794
>
> So I'm wrong for telling someone - who is telling someone else to be
> quiet - to be quiet.
> That's what you said.
> If you'd wanted to make sense, you should have condemned Bill all the
> more, for telling someone who was just speaking their mind to shut up
> - otherwise you're just being irrational.
>
> You might as well call police guilty for trying to protect us ordinary
> people from the violence of others. If they shoot a criminal who has
> their gun trained on an innocent person, is it wrong?
> I'm not the police, or any sort of authority on the list - that's most
> definitely not the point of my post.
> But, in the analogy, you're shooting me for shooting the criminal.
>
> It doesn't make sense.
> I get what you were trying to say.
> It's wrong.
>
> Jason
>
> On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 12:15 AM, Erik Fisler wrote:
>>
>> you know what I meant Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 00:13:01 -0700
>>> From: meteoritekid at gmail.com
>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold ofChicago...wasnwa 1794
>>>
>>> Erik,
>>> You just told me not to stand up for what I believe in.
>>> So you're telling me to stop standing up for what I believe in,
>>> because, you say, telling people to not stand up for what they believe
>>> in - doing that is wrong.
>>> Of course, the implications of your statement are interesting. If we
>>> all followed that logic, whoever spoke first in any situation would be
>>> simply infallible. Anyone who disagreed, standing up for what they
>>> believed in, would be telling someone that they couldn't believe what
>>> they wanted to. Wouldn't that be an interesting world.
>>> At any rate, Erik, I say they have the right to block Steve, just as
>>> Steve has the right to post. In fact, by your own reasoning, because
>>> Steve must have sent a message to the list before someone criticized
>>> him for doing so (logic), the people who harass him are really just
>>> keeping (or *trying* to keep) Steve from 'standing up for what he
>>> believes in.'
>>> So they're still the wrong ones by your reasoning, because he must
>>> have preceded his naysayers. I'm advocating free speech in the sense
>>> that I believe that these people are merely being hypocritical.
>>> They've been annoying the lot of us for ten years trying to get him to
>>> stop. I'm saying that they should stop sending me messages, because I
>>> don't like their insults and nasty messages.
>>> Furthermore, they could accomplish their collective goal of abolishing
>>> Steve from their inboxes by simply blocking him. It seems obvious to
>>> me, at this juncture, that they really just like harassing someone in
>>> public and being able to get away with it. I'm sure you've met some
>>> bullies in your time - welcome to the meteorite list.
>>> Jason
>>>
>>> P.S. It also seems to me that your message lacks 'valor.'
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 11:55 PM, Erik Fisler wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Alright Jason, you have stated your opinion now respectfully drop it,
>>>> or continue to say the same thing over and over in different words...
>>>>
>>>> Standing up for what you believe is important and no one should ever
>>>> listen to anyone who says to not even bother to stand up for what they
>>>> believe or to give up. That is WRONG.
>>>>
>>>> [Erik]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 23:18:06 -0700
>>>>> From: meteoritekid at gmail.com
>>>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold ofChicago...wasnwa 1794
>>>>>
>>>>> Bill,
>>>>> I have never asked for, nor received one of his freebies, though I
>>>>> will admit to having purchased meteorites from him at more than
>>>>> reasonable prices. But you apparently have a problem with someone
>>>>> giving away meteorites on a regular basis, and with someone who
>>>>> doesn't use a sense of business typical of most meteorite dealers.
>>>>>
>>>>> But that's my point, really.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've been here, on this list, for eleven years, and, to be perfectly
>>>>> frank, you're the problem, not him. He's not the person who turns
>>>>> people away from the hobby; it's mean-spirited people like you who
>>>>> make others feel unwelcome.
>>>>> His posts have never been derogatory. Ill-conceived, maybe. Lacking
>>>>> foresight, probably in many cases.
>>>>> - But malevolent, like yours, never.
>>>>>
>>>>> Many people have many things to thank him for, including great deals
>>>>> and free space rocks for some of the less-well-off collectors.
>>>>> But he posts too many messages for you. I'll say it again - third
>>>>> time's the charm, right?
>>>>> Block him if you have an issue. I know for a fact that Hotmail has
>>>>> that function.
>>>>>
>>>>> I actually disagree with Mark on this; the list really hasn't changed
>>>>> all that much in the time I've been here. A number of old-timers have
>>>>> moved on, and there -are- a much greater number of newcomers has
>>>>> arrived in the past few years, but the same old bickering goes on, and
>>>>> on, and on. You're just the next person to take up the anti-Steve
>>>>> mantle. If you look back in the archives, that's something you will
>>>>> actually find.
>>>>>
>>>>> If the list is suffering, it's not from him; he's been a constant here
>>>>> for a decade, and this list has yet to collapse in upon itself. The
>>>>> list remains *the* list, and I've yet to hear of someone actually
>>>>> leaving the list because of Steve. If they have, well, I'm sad that
>>>>> they didn't find the block button sooner. If you look back at the
>>>>> archives, people typically leave because of this godawful bickering.
>>>>> The stuff you're doing. The only reason I feel it might do some good
>>>>> is because it really has been getting worse lately - and I figure it
>>>>> might be worth pointing out that block function to you lot.
>>>>>
>>>>> Elton's argument really is ridiculous, in retrospect. He likely
>>>>> bought something from Steve at a rock-bottom price and is now
>>>>> harassing him, having just benefitted from Steve's...unorthodox
>>>>> business techniques. Glaringly hypocritical, and talk about good
>>>>> faith. As though he really expected Steve to leave anyways. If he
>>>>> did, well, I think it shows something about his own intelligence.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jason
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 10:54 PM, bill kies wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Good Spirit? Never Derogatory? Generally meteorite related? Are you talking about sSteve? You must be one of his freebie zombies or waiting like so many others to benefit from his erratic business sense. Please do a history check and drop the subject.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----------------------------------------
>>>>>>> Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 22:34:07 -0700
>>>>>>> From: meteoritekid at gmail.com
>>>>>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold ofChicago...wasnwa 1794
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bill,
>>>>>>> You are breaking list policy as much as he is in posting as you do, if
>>>>>>> not more. His posts do break the suggested limit for posts in a given
>>>>>>> time period, but they are always in good spirit, never derogatory, and
>>>>>>> are generally meteorite-related. Get off your high-horses and accept
>>>>>>> the fact that no matter how wrong he is, you're stooping to below his
>>>>>>> level in posting as you do. If you wanted Art to take action, you
>>>>>>> should have messaged him, not me. I don't think I'm wrong in assuming
>>>>>>> that the rest of the folks out there share that sentiment. If we had
>>>>>>> a problem with Steve, we would have blocked him. As could you. The
>>>>>>> fact that you haven't seems to suggest that you like the opportunity
>>>>>>> to harass him.
>>>>>>> And you call him annoying.
>>>>>>> I won't criticize or support him; I personally don't care for or
>>>>>>> dislike his messages. They're there, and your posts aren't going to
>>>>>>> change that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You're the one with the ability to change, to take the higher road.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mark,
>>>>>>> I know, but I think it's obvious enough, almost a decade down the
>>>>>>> line, that things are not going to change.
>>>>>>> This has been going on for, well, combine world the first and second
>>>>>>> world wars. That's about how long.
>>>>>>> Longer than the occupation of Iraq, and half the length of the Vietnam War.
>>>>>>> You'd think that, at some point, people would begin to understand the
>>>>>>> futility of their own actions.
>>>>>>> And at some point, I would think it prudent for certain people to
>>>>>>> realize that the effort they take to spearhead this effort against him
>>>>>>> is really done for the sake of hundreds of people who couldn't care
>>>>>>> less. And the level to which they take action against him for being,
>>>>>>> what amounts to at worst, a simpleton, is beyond me. Litigiousness in
>>>>>>> the sense Elton seems to be advocating is, in my mind, much worse than
>>>>>>> anything Steve has ever done - and, given the past, considerably worse
>>>>>>> than what he seems capable of doing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jason
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 10:00 PM, Mark Grossman wrote:
>>>>>>>> Without taking any sides pro or con re the particulars of Steve's actions:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> There's a brick wall there, and no matter how long you persist in
>>>>>>>>> throwing yourselves against it, it's not budging, regardless of how
>>>>>>>>> right (or wrong) you are in doing so. You're not going to change him,
>>>>>>>>> or the situation in general.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What a sad state of affairs Jason has described regarding the status of the
>>>>>>>> biggest meteorite list in the world - no matter which side of the fence you
>>>>>>>> are on.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Mark Grossman
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jason Utas"
>>>>>>>> To: "Meteorite-list"
>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 12:43 AM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold ofChicago...wasnwa
>>>>>>>> 1794
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hola,
>>>>>>>>> I would again like to point out that, even though his posts may be
>>>>>>>>> repetitive and annoying to some - maybe even most - of the
>>>>>>>>> list-members who have yet to block him (you might give it a try if
>>>>>>>>> you're so annoyed), well, the simple fact of the matter is that a
>>>>>>>>> single one of his posts just elicited four utterly negative responses.
>>>>>>>>> I *still* find it hypocritical that you lot insist on spamming more
>>>>>>>>> than he does. I recall saying at least a few years ago - you're not
>>>>>>>>> going to stop him, and going about it the way you are - or any way,
>>>>>>>>> really, isn't going to do anything.
>>>>>>>>> I was apparently right.
>>>>>>>>> There's a brick wall there, and no matter how long you persist in
>>>>>>>>> throwing yourselves against it, it's not budging, regardless of how
>>>>>>>>> right (or wrong) you are in doing so. You're not going to change him,
>>>>>>>>> or the situation in general. Why not give the rest of us a bit of a
>>>>>>>>> respite from the constant haranguing and leave him be, eh? One fifth
>>>>>>>>> the spam would be nice.
>>>>>>>>> Jason
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 9:26 PM, bill kies
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Mr. Tate,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> At a glance this situation might look silly but April 1st or not, sSteve
>>>>>>>>>> has been entertaining himself at the expense of this list for almost a
>>>>>>>>>> decade. People can only tolerate so much. We, list members, have managed the
>>>>>>>>>> bad taste and poor humor well enough. Don't rush to judgement unless you've
>>>>>>>>>> read the archives extensively and understand what this fellow is all about.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Quick access to your favorite MSN content and Windows Live with Internet
>>>>>>>>>> Explorer 8.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B037MSN55C0701A
>>>>>>>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>>>>>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>>>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>>>>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>>>> Rediscover Hotmail?: Get quick friend updates right in your inbox.
>>>>>> http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Updates1_042009
>>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

From mstreman53 at yahoo.com  Thu Apr  2 04:38:01 2009
From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 01:38:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Steve of Chicago final message
In-Reply-To: <93aaac890904012234u789fe598w176d5f4088defa05@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <934946.44912.qm@web55201.mail.re4.yahoo.com>


This is not the post anyone is expecting and it addresses everyone so please read to the end.  As I am the originator of the thread this is for all: from the pacifist who were not privy to Steve's of Illinois complete meteorite dealings and for the others that experienced them personally: those who may have purchased/received from him and got what was promised/paid for but not received from him/paid for but didn't get what they paid from him, etc.--for all those that wanted to get along rather than deal with the gritty ethics, for those who so passionately defended everyone's right regardless of any other factor, for those kind souls who made the case again and again for moderation by all sides, for those who were aggravated beyond speakable words at certain acts and, those that found the situation inconsistent with a hobby based on living by one's word... I have an announcement from Steve in Illinois for everyone and I somberly offer it.

Steve has sent word that he is gone from the list-unsubscribed as of this evening and out of the meteorite business. He prefers to neither send or receive anymore emails. He says he is keeping his word to leave.  His web-page no longer list meteorites for sale.  For anyone to try to erase all the evidence of their history on the internet is futile as that history remains in cached pages from here to China. Steve's business or non business will be between him and the legal world and further discussion about him on this list is moot. Ebay sales remain "caveat emptor".

I am told that those who met Steve in person found in him possessing an off beat charisma, not unlikeable but always within a sympathy inducing presence. In person; a gentle giant. Steve was possessed by a drive that always seemed to steer him in a way opposite from what he wanted--from what we wanted too.  I admire Steve's meteorite display cabinet in his home, how each specimen was treated with admiration and suitable display setting and that his passion was borne out in development of a great and sometime humorous web presence. His meteorites were special and not just tossed into dark drawer. For Steve's pain I truly feel for his loss. He and I share more in common than most know. 

As much as I empathize with his personal struggles there was the dilemma I felt in the sense of being wronged by the darker side Steve allowed into his life and those that had their collections cheated.  It is not easy to adjudicate between the two options of Steve being gone versus being here and dealing unethically with his peers; a problem he was never able to reconcile.  While it seemed a case of resign or face an eventual ouster because of the path he walked, Steve did an honorable thing and I know it was done in great personal pain.  I wish there had been an effective workable common ground between the two options but twas not to be. In honor to Art he has been one of the fairest souls I have ever known and possessing the patience of the Job of old testament lore. 

What remains that I need to reiterate is that leaving the list when the heat is up has been a ploy in the past. I'll have to cautiously accept that Steve's announcement is true and "final" for a time being. This doesn't mean any legal woes are over but they are no longer on topic here. As far as I believe, this is fair and beneficial for all involved.

In that he has resigned, I believe this merits being the final list post on the episode-- no matter what your feelings or passions please respect Steve's and my own wishes.

Respectfully,
Elton

From meteoritekid at gmail.com  Thu Apr  2 04:41:28 2009
From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 01:41:28 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold ofChicago...wasnwa
	1794
In-Reply-To: <COL119-W69DD36B90775DD14E15C2DA4880@phx.gbl>
References: <SNT102-W42E54AF62C6598BA83FF0FA2880@phx.gbl>
	<31BBEA91B8B84D9086B3233624BE72A4@QED>
	<93aaac890904012234u789fe598w176d5f4088defa05@mail.gmail.com>
	<SNT102-W23C9057BC26A282E10FBBBA2880@phx.gbl>
	<93aaac890904012318w2215be42m8e6d68e8e13a0be6@mail.gmail.com>
	<COL119-W352DF053E889E86E4045FAA4880@phx.gbl>
	<93aaac890904020013y167d483fnf14fcb600a37bc20@mail.gmail.com>
	<COL119-W34509694226F7808B53E44A4880@phx.gbl>
	<93aaac890904020023o125259dcn46b1ef1a2d7d3f1b@mail.gmail.com>
	<COL119-W69DD36B90775DD14E15C2DA4880@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <93aaac890904020141ib8ca5b5x50678e5dfd012397@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks?  I'm not bunny-hopping around anything.
You're the one going about meaning things without saying them.

> I don't need to tell Bill to be quiet because you already did.

So now I'm going to go ahead and tell you that you shouldn't go and
openly criticize someone - and simultaneously silently express disdain
for the person they're criticizing, because they just might get the
wrong impression.
I guess what I'm getting at there is that I, along with everyone else
on this list, am not capable of reading your mind.

> No one wants to block Steve, they just want him to slow down.

Check archives.  Take a look at the *countless* messages demanding
that he be banned in general, banned from posting, limited from
posting, etc.
The worst of them really do call for his expulsion from the list, and
there are a great many of them.  Too many to count.
I know.  I got them in my inbox.  I still do.

Furthermore, I would like to point out the fact that people like Bill
have been expressing the same point for ten years now, more than
quadrupling the number of Steve/Anti-Steve messages I've received.  If
you say he's entitled to his opinion, of getting Steve to limit his
posting, I believe that I'm entitled to mine; I want them out of my
inbox.  They want Steve out of theirs - I'm just asking for the same
thing.

Of course they're entitled to their opinion, but now you seem to be
saying that Steve should feel obliged to change his emailing habits
because people want him to; they are entitled to their opinion.
At least, I think that's your point?

But isn't that what Steve believes in?  His right to post?

It's still flawed reasoning, because when you come down to it in this
new sense that you're advocating, there is no right and wrong - merely
opinion.

And that's not going to get anyone anywhere, unless Art comes down
with a strong preference and decides to act.

Which brings me back to the futility of Bill, Elton, and others.  I
don't care for their opinions in this matter, and I would prefer that
they stop sending their very negative messages to me.  I'm not trying
to take away their opinion, their hatred of Steve.  They're perfectly
entitled to that.
But if anyone has a problem with Steve, they can take it up with Art.
Nothing's stopping them.  And if they don't like him enough, they can
block him, problem solved.  But sending their spiteful messages to me
just pisses me off, just as Steve pisses them off.

It's the hypocrisy that I'm condemning here, in the way in which they
express their opinions - not the opinions themselves.

Of course, on a fundamental level, my argument falls apart as well,
because I could simply block Bill, Elton, and all of the others who
speak out against Steve.  The trouble is that I would wind up blocking
several of the more vocal list-members, which really would make
threads less sensical (I'd be missing messages), in many cases.
They only have one email address to block.

Jason


On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 12:39 AM, Erik Fisler <erikfwebb at msn.com> wrote:
>
> I know you are witty, we all do but don't bunny hop
> around my points by playing word games.
> This isn't the bar scene from Goodwill Hunting.
> I don't want to argue with someone I respect.
> I don't need to tell Bill to be quiet because you already did.
> No one wants to block Steve, they just want him to slow down.
> And what I meant was you, Jason, where wrong for telling someone not
> to stand up for what they believe in. I did NOT mean standing up
> for what you believe in is wrong.
> With that said I apologize for offending you if I did...
> Now lets get one with the Meteoritics...
> Love, Piece, and Afro Grease and all that mushy stuff.
> [Erik]
>
> ----------------------------------------
>> Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 00:23:48 -0700
>> From: meteoritekid at gmail.com
>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold ofChicago...wasnwa 1794
>>
>> So I'm wrong for telling someone - who is telling someone else to be
>> quiet - to be quiet.
>> That's what you said.
>> If you'd wanted to make sense, you should have condemned Bill all the
>> more, for telling someone who was just speaking their mind to shut up
>> - otherwise you're just being irrational.
>>
>> You might as well call police guilty for trying to protect us ordinary
>> people from the violence of others. If they shoot a criminal who has
>> their gun trained on an innocent person, is it wrong?
>> I'm not the police, or any sort of authority on the list - that's most
>> definitely not the point of my post.
>> But, in the analogy, you're shooting me for shooting the criminal.
>>
>> It doesn't make sense.
>> I get what you were trying to say.
>> It's wrong.
>>
>> Jason
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 12:15 AM, Erik Fisler wrote:
>>>
>>> you know what I meant Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 00:13:01 -0700
>>>> From: meteoritekid at gmail.com
>>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold ofChicago...wasnwa 1794
>>>>
>>>> Erik,
>>>> You just told me not to stand up for what I believe in.
>>>> So you're telling me to stop standing up for what I believe in,
>>>> because, you say, telling people to not stand up for what they believe
>>>> in - doing that is wrong.
>>>> Of course, the implications of your statement are interesting. If we
>>>> all followed that logic, whoever spoke first in any situation would be
>>>> simply infallible. Anyone who disagreed, standing up for what they
>>>> believed in, would be telling someone that they couldn't believe what
>>>> they wanted to. Wouldn't that be an interesting world.
>>>> At any rate, Erik, I say they have the right to block Steve, just as
>>>> Steve has the right to post. In fact, by your own reasoning, because
>>>> Steve must have sent a message to the list before someone criticized
>>>> him for doing so (logic), the people who harass him are really just
>>>> keeping (or *trying* to keep) Steve from 'standing up for what he
>>>> believes in.'
>>>> So they're still the wrong ones by your reasoning, because he must
>>>> have preceded his naysayers. I'm advocating free speech in the sense
>>>> that I believe that these people are merely being hypocritical.
>>>> They've been annoying the lot of us for ten years trying to get him to
>>>> stop. I'm saying that they should stop sending me messages, because I
>>>> don't like their insults and nasty messages.
>>>> Furthermore, they could accomplish their collective goal of abolishing
>>>> Steve from their inboxes by simply blocking him. It seems obvious to
>>>> me, at this juncture, that they really just like harassing someone in
>>>> public and being able to get away with it. I'm sure you've met some
>>>> bullies in your time - welcome to the meteorite list.
>>>> Jason
>>>>
>>>> P.S. It also seems to me that your message lacks 'valor.'
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 11:55 PM, Erik Fisler wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Alright Jason, you have stated your opinion now respectfully drop it,
>>>>> or continue to say the same thing over and over in different words...
>>>>>
>>>>> Standing up for what you believe is important and no one should ever
>>>>> listen to anyone who says to not even bother to stand up for what they
>>>>> believe or to give up. That is WRONG.
>>>>>
>>>>> [Erik]
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 23:18:06 -0700
>>>>>> From: meteoritekid at gmail.com
>>>>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold ofChicago...wasnwa 1794
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bill,
>>>>>> I have never asked for, nor received one of his freebies, though I
>>>>>> will admit to having purchased meteorites from him at more than
>>>>>> reasonable prices. But you apparently have a problem with someone
>>>>>> giving away meteorites on a regular basis, and with someone who
>>>>>> doesn't use a sense of business typical of most meteorite dealers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But that's my point, really.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've been here, on this list, for eleven years, and, to be perfectly
>>>>>> frank, you're the problem, not him. He's not the person who turns
>>>>>> people away from the hobby; it's mean-spirited people like you who
>>>>>> make others feel unwelcome.
>>>>>> His posts have never been derogatory. Ill-conceived, maybe. Lacking
>>>>>> foresight, probably in many cases.
>>>>>> - But malevolent, like yours, never.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Many people have many things to thank him for, including great deals
>>>>>> and free space rocks for some of the less-well-off collectors.
>>>>>> But he posts too many messages for you. I'll say it again - third
>>>>>> time's the charm, right?
>>>>>> Block him if you have an issue. I know for a fact that Hotmail has
>>>>>> that function.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I actually disagree with Mark on this; the list really hasn't changed
>>>>>> all that much in the time I've been here. A number of old-timers have
>>>>>> moved on, and there -are- a much greater number of newcomers has
>>>>>> arrived in the past few years, but the same old bickering goes on, and
>>>>>> on, and on. You're just the next person to take up the anti-Steve
>>>>>> mantle. If you look back in the archives, that's something you will
>>>>>> actually find.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If the list is suffering, it's not from him; he's been a constant here
>>>>>> for a decade, and this list has yet to collapse in upon itself. The
>>>>>> list remains *the* list, and I've yet to hear of someone actually
>>>>>> leaving the list because of Steve. If they have, well, I'm sad that
>>>>>> they didn't find the block button sooner. If you look back at the
>>>>>> archives, people typically leave because of this godawful bickering.
>>>>>> The stuff you're doing. The only reason I feel it might do some good
>>>>>> is because it really has been getting worse lately - and I figure it
>>>>>> might be worth pointing out that block function to you lot.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Elton's argument really is ridiculous, in retrospect. He likely
>>>>>> bought something from Steve at a rock-bottom price and is now
>>>>>> harassing him, having just benefitted from Steve's...unorthodox
>>>>>> business techniques. Glaringly hypocritical, and talk about good
>>>>>> faith. As though he really expected Steve to leave anyways. If he
>>>>>> did, well, I think it shows something about his own intelligence.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jason
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 10:54 PM, bill kies wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Good Spirit? Never Derogatory? Generally meteorite related? Are you talking about sSteve? You must be one of his freebie zombies or waiting like so many others to benefit from his erratic business sense. Please do a history check and drop the subject.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 22:34:07 -0700
>>>>>>>> From: meteoritekid at gmail.com
>>>>>>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold ofChicago...wasnwa 1794
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bill,
>>>>>>>> You are breaking list policy as much as he is in posting as you do, if
>>>>>>>> not more. His posts do break the suggested limit for posts in a given
>>>>>>>> time period, but they are always in good spirit, never derogatory, and
>>>>>>>> are generally meteorite-related. Get off your high-horses and accept
>>>>>>>> the fact that no matter how wrong he is, you're stooping to below his
>>>>>>>> level in posting as you do. If you wanted Art to take action, you
>>>>>>>> should have messaged him, not me. I don't think I'm wrong in assuming
>>>>>>>> that the rest of the folks out there share that sentiment. If we had
>>>>>>>> a problem with Steve, we would have blocked him. As could you. The
>>>>>>>> fact that you haven't seems to suggest that you like the opportunity
>>>>>>>> to harass him.
>>>>>>>> And you call him annoying.
>>>>>>>> I won't criticize or support him; I personally don't care for or
>>>>>>>> dislike his messages. They're there, and your posts aren't going to
>>>>>>>> change that.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You're the one with the ability to change, to take the higher road.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Mark,
>>>>>>>> I know, but I think it's obvious enough, almost a decade down the
>>>>>>>> line, that things are not going to change.
>>>>>>>> This has been going on for, well, combine world the first and second
>>>>>>>> world wars. That's about how long.
>>>>>>>> Longer than the occupation of Iraq, and half the length of the Vietnam War.
>>>>>>>> You'd think that, at some point, people would begin to understand the
>>>>>>>> futility of their own actions.
>>>>>>>> And at some point, I would think it prudent for certain people to
>>>>>>>> realize that the effort they take to spearhead this effort against him
>>>>>>>> is really done for the sake of hundreds of people who couldn't care
>>>>>>>> less. And the level to which they take action against him for being,
>>>>>>>> what amounts to at worst, a simpleton, is beyond me. Litigiousness in
>>>>>>>> the sense Elton seems to be advocating is, in my mind, much worse than
>>>>>>>> anything Steve has ever done - and, given the past, considerably worse
>>>>>>>> than what he seems capable of doing.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jason
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 10:00 PM, Mark Grossman wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Without taking any sides pro or con re the particulars of Steve's actions:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> There's a brick wall there, and no matter how long you persist in
>>>>>>>>>> throwing yourselves against it, it's not budging, regardless of how
>>>>>>>>>> right (or wrong) you are in doing so. You're not going to change him,
>>>>>>>>>> or the situation in general.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What a sad state of affairs Jason has described regarding the status of the
>>>>>>>>> biggest meteorite list in the world - no matter which side of the fence you
>>>>>>>>> are on.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Mark Grossman
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jason Utas"
>>>>>>>>> To: "Meteorite-list"
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 12:43 AM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold ofChicago...wasnwa
>>>>>>>>> 1794
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hola,
>>>>>>>>>> I would again like to point out that, even though his posts may be
>>>>>>>>>> repetitive and annoying to some - maybe even most - of the
>>>>>>>>>> list-members who have yet to block him (you might give it a try if
>>>>>>>>>> you're so annoyed), well, the simple fact of the matter is that a
>>>>>>>>>> single one of his posts just elicited four utterly negative responses.
>>>>>>>>>> I *still* find it hypocritical that you lot insist on spamming more
>>>>>>>>>> than he does. I recall saying at least a few years ago - you're not
>>>>>>>>>> going to stop him, and going about it the way you are - or any way,
>>>>>>>>>> really, isn't going to do anything.
>>>>>>>>>> I was apparently right.
>>>>>>>>>> There's a brick wall there, and no matter how long you persist in
>>>>>>>>>> throwing yourselves against it, it's not budging, regardless of how
>>>>>>>>>> right (or wrong) you are in doing so. You're not going to change him,
>>>>>>>>>> or the situation in general. Why not give the rest of us a bit of a
>>>>>>>>>> respite from the constant haranguing and leave him be, eh? One fifth
>>>>>>>>>> the spam would be nice.
>>>>>>>>>> Jason
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 9:26 PM, bill kies
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Mr. Tate,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> At a glance this situation might look silly but April 1st or not, sSteve
>>>>>>>>>>> has been entertaining himself at the expense of this list for almost a
>>>>>>>>>>> decade. People can only tolerate so much. We, list members, have managed the
>>>>>>>>>>> bad taste and poor humor well enough. Don't rush to judgement unless you've
>>>>>>>>>>> read the archives extensively and understand what this fellow is all about.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> Quick access to your favorite MSN content and Windows Live with Internet
>>>>>>>>>>> Explorer 8.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B037MSN55C0701A
>>>>>>>>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>>>>>>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>>>>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>>>>>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>>>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>>>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>> Rediscover Hotmail?: Get quick friend updates right in your inbox.
>>>>>>> http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Updates1_042009
>>>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>>
>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>

From meteoritekid at gmail.com  Thu Apr  2 05:06:47 2009
From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 02:06:47 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Steve of Chicago final message
In-Reply-To: <934946.44912.qm@web55201.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
References: <93aaac890904012234u789fe598w176d5f4088defa05@mail.gmail.com>
	<934946.44912.qm@web55201.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <93aaac890904020206n79cf029cmf884e8c75fa96937@mail.gmail.com>

Hola All,
A very dignified and respectful message from the very person who made
it his mission to persecute the 'gentle giant' himself.
I would like to point out the past.
Elton's comments about Steve have ranged from the recent:

"Do you get a cut in your unemployment check so now it is only $35 a
gram you can afford?"
3/1/2009

-to-

"And for all the scumbag listees that prostitute
yourselves to grovel over sSteve's bribes/discards--
feeding into his morbid games: Get some back bone."
5/26/2007

-and we shouldn't forget-

"Steve: <blap>STHU!"
4/23/2005

-and-

"Steve's latest rounds of "leave me alone, I've done nothing wrong, I
am not listening to you" comes across as another back door attention
scam--to those that have seen his patterns over and over and over,
many have run out of cheeks to turn."
7/1/2005

-not to mention the countless sarcastic comments like the following-

"I would realy like to hear from Steve on how he is able to parlay his
unemployment check into a collection which rivals that of the Field Museum.
His technique might be just the thing we need to pay off the national debt and
revive the world economy!"
1/18/2009

And of course, to cap it all off, I suppose - the reason You, Elton,
can now be gracious is simply because he's gone - as you yourself said
on August 25, 2002:

"Steve on one hand I
think you are overall a good person that would like to make a
contribution to our hobby.  Then another email arrives...Just call me
PTSD  but you then perrish that belief I have in you."

So now that you've literally forced him into hiding, under threat of
frivolous litigation, you can afford to be as gracious as could be.
Got it.

Jason


On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 1:38 AM, Mr EMan <mstreman53 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> This is not the post anyone is expecting and it addresses everyone so please read to the end. ?As I am the originator of the thread this is for all: from the pacifist who were not privy to Steve's of Illinois complete meteorite dealings and for the others that experienced them personally: those who may have purchased/received from him and got what was promised/paid for but not received from him/paid for but didn't get what they paid from him, etc.--for all those that wanted to get along rather than deal with the gritty ethics, for those who so passionately defended everyone's right regardless of any other factor, for those kind souls who made the case again and again for moderation by all sides, for those who were aggravated beyond speakable words at certain acts and, those that found the situation inconsistent with a hobby based on living by one's word... I have an announcement from Steve in Illinois for everyone and I somberly offer it.
>
> Steve has sent word that he is gone from the list-unsubscribed as of this evening and out of the meteorite business. He prefers to neither send or receive anymore emails. He says he is keeping his word to leave. ?His web-page no longer list meteorites for sale. ?For anyone to try to erase all the evidence of their history on the internet is futile as that history remains in cached pages from here to China. Steve's business or non business will be between him and the legal world and further discussion about him on this list is moot. Ebay sales remain "caveat emptor".
>
> I am told that those who met Steve in person found in him possessing an off beat charisma, not unlikeable but always within a sympathy inducing presence. In person; a gentle giant. Steve was possessed by a drive that always seemed to steer him in a way opposite from what he wanted--from what we wanted too. ?I admire Steve's meteorite display cabinet in his home, how each specimen was treated with admiration and suitable display setting and that his passion was borne out in development of a great and sometime humorous web presence. His meteorites were special and not just tossed into dark drawer. For Steve's pain I truly feel for his loss. He and I share more in common than most know.
>
> As much as I empathize with his personal struggles there was the dilemma I felt in the sense of being wronged by the darker side Steve allowed into his life and those that had their collections cheated. ?It is not easy to adjudicate between the two options of Steve being gone versus being here and dealing unethically with his peers; a problem he was never able to reconcile. ?While it seemed a case of resign or face an eventual ouster because of the path he walked, Steve did an honorable thing and I know it was done in great personal pain. ?I wish there had been an effective workable common ground between the two options but twas not to be. In honor to Art he has been one of the fairest souls I have ever known and possessing the patience of the Job of old testament lore.
>
> What remains that I need to reiterate is that leaving the list when the heat is up has been a ploy in the past. I'll have to cautiously accept that Steve's announcement is true and "final" for a time being. This doesn't mean any legal woes are over but they are no longer on topic here. As far as I believe, this is fair and beneficial for all involved.
>
> In that he has resigned, I believe this merits being the final list post on the episode-- no matter what your feelings or passions please respect Steve's and my own wishes.
>
> Respectfully,
> Elton
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>

From mlblood at cox.net  Thu Apr  2 05:10:24 2009
From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael Blood)
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 02:10:24 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold ofChicago...wasnwa
 1794
In-Reply-To: <COL119-W34509694226F7808B53E44A4880@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <C5F9CF10.2517%mlblood@cox.net>

My, my, my.
        What an interesting disgusting....er, I mean
Discussion....... 
        Michael


> From: Erik Fisler <erikfwebb at msn.com>
> Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 00:15:07 -0700
> To: Meteorite List <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold ofChicago...wasnwa
> 1794
> 
> 
> you know what I meant  Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 00:13:01 -0700
>> From: meteoritekid at gmail.com
>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold ofChicago...wasnwa
>> 1794
>> 
>> Erik,
>> You just told me not to stand up for what I believe in.
>> So you're telling me to stop standing up for what I believe in,
>> because, you say, telling people to not stand up for what they believe
>> in - doing that is wrong.
>> Of course, the implications of your statement are interesting. If we
>> all followed that logic, whoever spoke first in any situation would be
>> simply infallible. Anyone who disagreed, standing up for what they
>> believed in, would be telling someone that they couldn't believe what
>> they wanted to. Wouldn't that be an interesting world.
>> At any rate, Erik, I say they have the right to block Steve, just as
>> Steve has the right to post. In fact, by your own reasoning, because
>> Steve must have sent a message to the list before someone criticized
>> him for doing so (logic), the people who harass him are really just
>> keeping (or *trying* to keep) Steve from 'standing up for what he
>> believes in.'
>> So they're still the wrong ones by your reasoning, because he must
>> have preceded his naysayers. I'm advocating free speech in the sense
>> that I believe that these people are merely being hypocritical.
>> They've been annoying the lot of us for ten years trying to get him to
>> stop. I'm saying that they should stop sending me messages, because I
>> don't like their insults and nasty messages.
>> Furthermore, they could accomplish their collective goal of abolishing
>> Steve from their inboxes by simply blocking him. It seems obvious to
>> me, at this juncture, that they really just like harassing someone in
>> public and being able to get away with it. I'm sure you've met some
>> bullies in your time - welcome to the meteorite list.
>> Jason
>> 
>> P.S. It also seems to me that your message lacks 'valor.'
>> 
>> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 11:55 PM, Erik Fisler wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Alright Jason, you have stated your opinion now respectfully drop it,
>>> or continue to say the same thing over and over in different words...
>>> 
>>> Standing up for what you believe is important and no one should ever
>>> listen to anyone who says to not even bother to stand up for what they
>>> believe or to give up. That is WRONG.
>>> 
>>> [Erik]
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 23:18:06 -0700
>>>> From: meteoritekid at gmail.com
>>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold
>>>> ofChicago...wasnwa 1794
>>>> 
>>>> Bill,
>>>> I have never asked for, nor received one of his freebies, though I
>>>> will admit to having purchased meteorites from him at more than
>>>> reasonable prices. But you apparently have a problem with someone
>>>> giving away meteorites on a regular basis, and with someone who
>>>> doesn't use a sense of business typical of most meteorite dealers.
>>>> 
>>>> But that's my point, really.
>>>> 
>>>> I've been here, on this list, for eleven years, and, to be perfectly
>>>> frank, you're the problem, not him. He's not the person who turns
>>>> people away from the hobby; it's mean-spirited people like you who
>>>> make others feel unwelcome.
>>>> His posts have never been derogatory. Ill-conceived, maybe. Lacking
>>>> foresight, probably in many cases.
>>>> - But malevolent, like yours, never.
>>>> 
>>>> Many people have many things to thank him for, including great deals
>>>> and free space rocks for some of the less-well-off collectors.
>>>> But he posts too many messages for you. I'll say it again - third
>>>> time's the charm, right?
>>>> Block him if you have an issue. I know for a fact that Hotmail has
>>>> that function.
>>>> 
>>>> I actually disagree with Mark on this; the list really hasn't changed
>>>> all that much in the time I've been here. A number of old-timers have
>>>> moved on, and there -are- a much greater number of newcomers has
>>>> arrived in the past few years, but the same old bickering goes on, and
>>>> on, and on. You're just the next person to take up the anti-Steve
>>>> mantle. If you look back in the archives, that's something you will
>>>> actually find.
>>>> 
>>>> If the list is suffering, it's not from him; he's been a constant here
>>>> for a decade, and this list has yet to collapse in upon itself. The
>>>> list remains *the* list, and I've yet to hear of someone actually
>>>> leaving the list because of Steve. If they have, well, I'm sad that
>>>> they didn't find the block button sooner. If you look back at the
>>>> archives, people typically leave because of this godawful bickering.
>>>> The stuff you're doing. The only reason I feel it might do some good
>>>> is because it really has been getting worse lately - and I figure it
>>>> might be worth pointing out that block function to you lot.
>>>> 
>>>> Elton's argument really is ridiculous, in retrospect. He likely
>>>> bought something from Steve at a rock-bottom price and is now
>>>> harassing him, having just benefitted from Steve's...unorthodox
>>>> business techniques. Glaringly hypocritical, and talk about good
>>>> faith. As though he really expected Steve to leave anyways. If he
>>>> did, well, I think it shows something about his own intelligence.
>>>> 
>>>> Jason
>>>> 
>>>> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 10:54 PM, bill kies wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Good Spirit? Never Derogatory? Generally meteorite related? Are you
>>>>> talking about sSteve? You must be one of his freebie zombies or waiting
>>>>> like so many others to benefit from his erratic business sense. Please do
>>>>> a history check and drop the subject.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> ----------------------------------------
>>>>>> Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 22:34:07 -0700
>>>>>> From: meteoritekid at gmail.com
>>>>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold
>>>>>> ofChicago...wasnwa 1794
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Bill,
>>>>>> You are breaking list policy as much as he is in posting as you do, if
>>>>>> not more. His posts do break the suggested limit for posts in a given
>>>>>> time period, but they are always in good spirit, never derogatory, and
>>>>>> are generally meteorite-related. Get off your high-horses and accept
>>>>>> the fact that no matter how wrong he is, you're stooping to below his
>>>>>> level in posting as you do. If you wanted Art to take action, you
>>>>>> should have messaged him, not me. I don't think I'm wrong in assuming
>>>>>> that the rest of the folks out there share that sentiment. If we had
>>>>>> a problem with Steve, we would have blocked him. As could you. The
>>>>>> fact that you haven't seems to suggest that you like the opportunity
>>>>>> to harass him.
>>>>>> And you call him annoying.
>>>>>> I won't criticize or support him; I personally don't care for or
>>>>>> dislike his messages. They're there, and your posts aren't going to
>>>>>> change that.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> You're the one with the ability to change, to take the higher road.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Mark,
>>>>>> I know, but I think it's obvious enough, almost a decade down the
>>>>>> line, that things are not going to change.
>>>>>> This has been going on for, well, combine world the first and second
>>>>>> world wars. That's about how long.
>>>>>> Longer than the occupation of Iraq, and half the length of the Vietnam
>>>>>> War.
>>>>>> You'd think that, at some point, people would begin to understand the
>>>>>> futility of their own actions.
>>>>>> And at some point, I would think it prudent for certain people to
>>>>>> realize that the effort they take to spearhead this effort against him
>>>>>> is really done for the sake of hundreds of people who couldn't care
>>>>>> less. And the level to which they take action against him for being,
>>>>>> what amounts to at worst, a simpleton, is beyond me. Litigiousness in
>>>>>> the sense Elton seems to be advocating is, in my mind, much worse than
>>>>>> anything Steve has ever done - and, given the past, considerably worse
>>>>>> than what he seems capable of doing.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Jason
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 10:00 PM, Mark Grossman wrote:
>>>>>>> Without taking any sides pro or con re the particulars of Steve's
>>>>>>> actions:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> There's a brick wall there, and no matter how long you persist in
>>>>>>>> throwing yourselves against it, it's not budging, regardless of how
>>>>>>>> right (or wrong) you are in doing so. You're not going to change him,
>>>>>>>> or the situation in general.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> What a sad state of affairs Jason has described regarding the status of
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> biggest meteorite list in the world - no matter which side of the fence
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>> are on.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Mark Grossman
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jason Utas"
>>>>>>> To: "Meteorite-list"
>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 12:43 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold
>>>>>>> ofChicago...wasnwa
>>>>>>> 1794
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Hola,
>>>>>>>> I would again like to point out that, even though his posts may be
>>>>>>>> repetitive and annoying to some - maybe even most - of the
>>>>>>>> list-members who have yet to block him (you might give it a try if
>>>>>>>> you're so annoyed), well, the simple fact of the matter is that a
>>>>>>>> single one of his posts just elicited four utterly negative responses.
>>>>>>>> I *still* find it hypocritical that you lot insist on spamming more
>>>>>>>> than he does. I recall saying at least a few years ago - you're not
>>>>>>>> going to stop him, and going about it the way you are - or any way,
>>>>>>>> really, isn't going to do anything.
>>>>>>>> I was apparently right.
>>>>>>>> There's a brick wall there, and no matter how long you persist in
>>>>>>>> throwing yourselves against it, it's not budging, regardless of how
>>>>>>>> right (or wrong) you are in doing so. You're not going to change him,
>>>>>>>> or the situation in general. Why not give the rest of us a bit of a
>>>>>>>> respite from the constant haranguing and leave him be, eh? One fifth
>>>>>>>> the spam would be nice.
>>>>>>>> Jason
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 9:26 PM, bill kies
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Mr. Tate,
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> At a glance this situation might look silly but April 1st or not,
>>>>>>>>> sSteve
>>>>>>>>> has been entertaining himself at the expense of this list for almost a
>>>>>>>>> decade. People can only tolerate so much. We, list members, have
>>>>>>>>> managed the
>>>>>>>>> bad taste and poor humor well enough. Don't rush to judgement unless
>>>>>>>>> you've
>>>>>>>>> read the archives extensively and understand what this fellow is all
>>>>>>>>> about.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Quick access to your favorite MSN content and Windows Live with
>>>>>>>>> Internet
>>>>>>>>> Explorer 8.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B
>>>>>>>>> 037MSN55C0701A
>>>>>>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>>>>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>>>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>>> Rediscover Hotmail?: Get quick friend updates right in your inbox.
>>>>> http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_U
>>>>> pdates1_042009
>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>> 
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From qwalkra at mailbox.ezadsl.net.au  Thu Apr  2 05:35:15 2009
From: qwalkra at mailbox.ezadsl.net.au (Bob WALKER)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 19:35:15 +1000
Subject: [meteorite-list] QMIG update - link to a glorious olde book on oz
	metoeirtes - a must have for any oz collector
Message-ID: <9993075A17F04C4385A7AE9F2E210DBD@your0a700f0aaf>

Listoids

I'll post this link for youse guys

http://www.australianmuseum.net.au/pdf/publications/478_complete.pdf

A glorious olde book on Australian meteorites

Australian Meteorites by T Hodge-Smith 1939
The Australian Museum Memoir VII

If listoids could share any links on other articles on oz meteorites - 
particularly Queensland meteorites - please let me know

No prizes for sending me the weblinks on my website tho

I have to do something to steer the subject away from the current round of 
squabbling on the list...

It was either this or launch into another QMIG rant but I'm not due for one 
of those for a while anyway...

Bring back Matteo I say - the list she is in ruin 


From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Thu Apr  2 08:01:44 2009
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Mike Gilmer)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 07:01:44 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] meteorite news -2 arrested update (Dude--
	Where's My Car edition)
In-Reply-To: <3ak8t417l2ravohtifr5nsas23v7r8v6q6@4ax.com>
References: <535231.21171.qm@web53209.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<2A7AE05591464D8287DCCAC10680F522@Keith2>
	<3ak8t417l2ravohtifr5nsas23v7r8v6q6@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <e51421550904020501v53a074d6scae87942857473c7@mail.gmail.com>

Why not take a 12-gauge shotgun and shoot the image of our hobby?  It
would have the same effect.

I'll wait to hear Mike and Sonny's side of the story before I pass
judgement, but unless it's a good explanation - they have both lost my
respect and business.

MikeG


On 4/2/09, Darren Garrison <cynapse at charter.net> wrote:
> Finally, a detailed account:
>
> http://www.wjbf.com/jbf/news/crime/article/meteorite_hunters_jailed_in_burke_county_for_trespassing/12297/
>
> The True Citizen | Liz Billups
> Published: April 1, 2009
>
> Burke County, GA?According to ?The True Citizen,? two Southwestern meteorite
> hunters found fame they weren?t searching for.
>
> Just one week after Las Vegas meteorite hunter Ralph ?Sonny? Clary, Jr. was
> interviewed by WJBF News Channel 6, he and Arizona hunter, Michael William
> Miller, were arrested for criminal trespass in Burke County.
>
> According to officers, the pair was searching for debris from the big March
> 20th
> meteorite sighting, when they zeroed in on a farm in the northern portion of
> the
> county, without permission.
>
> ?They went from famous to infamous,? one ranger said, after the pair was
> carted
> off to jail.
>
> The landowner called authorities, Monday morning, when she saw a strange Kia
> Rio
> parked on her property, and suspected poachers. DNR rangers say they were
> thrown
> off by the tiny white compact car, which is not popular among turkey
> hunters,
> but backed the landowner?s suspicions when they saw camouflage clothing
> inside.
>
> After an unproductive search in the nearby woods, the landowner had the Kia
> towed.
>
> The landowner and meteorite hunters came face to face when they came out of
> the
> woods and found their car missing. They knocked on her door for help; she
> ordered them to stay put, then both parties began simultaneously calling the
> cops.
>
> Clary and Miller told officers they hadn?t damaged anything and just wanted
> to
> pay the towing bill, and be on their way. The landowner said the men were
> profiteering on her property, without permission, and that she wanted them
> prosecuted ?to the fullest extent.?
>
> The suspects are scheduled to appear in state court, Wednesday morning.
>
> Would-be criminals should probably take heed. Last October, the same
> homeowner,
> at age 66, held two burglars face-down in the dirt with her pistol while she
> waited for deputies to come arrest them.
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


-- 

.........................................................
Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA)
Member of the Meteoritical Society.
Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network.
Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com
..........................................................

From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Thu Apr  2 08:09:50 2009
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Mike Gilmer)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 07:09:50 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad NWA 5549 silicated iron
In-Reply-To: <490170.71326.qm@web111003.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <490170.71326.qm@web111003.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <e51421550904020509x7231bfb7p1f1b8ebba9618d0a@mail.gmail.com>

Beautiful iron!  :)

It reminds me of Udei Station. :)


On 4/1/09, Jack Schrader <schraderj at rocketmail.com> wrote:
>
> Dear list members,
>
> The 161.9 gram slice of the Algerian silicated iron ends in less than two
> days and the bid price is still less than $4 a gram at this point!  These
> were selling in Tucson for $7 a gram and even the intact uncut specimens are
> now up to $5 a gram.  This is one of the largest professionally prepared
> slices you will ever see available of this rare iron.  Nicer than Lueders
> (which is now going for upwards of $20 a gram), see it here:
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160324560375
>
> Thanks for looking! Jack
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


-- 

.........................................................
Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA)
Member of the Meteoritical Society.
Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network.
Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com
..........................................................

From John at Cabassi.net  Thu Apr  2 10:29:25 2009
From: John at Cabassi.net (John.L.Cabassi)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 07:29:25 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Name Upgrade
Message-ID: <003b01c9b39f$6fbb7d20$4564fea9@TITAN>

G'Day List
After evaluating the knowledge I had gained this week on the Meteorite List, 
I have come to the conclusion we desperately need an upgrade.

So I propose a name change, the Meteorite List a.k.a. Met-List be named 
Bitch List a.k.a. Bit-List which is quite appropriate considering no one is 
immune to being bit.

Thank you for your time.

Cheers
John 


From mstreman53 at yahoo.com  Thu Apr  2 12:47:12 2009
From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 09:47:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Daytime fireball Video vic Marseille, France
Message-ID: <417685.69296.qm@web55207.mail.re4.yahoo.com>



Forwarded links from the Meteorobs list  Looks like a "fishy squishie" The degree symbol appears to be part of the the substitution of "?" in the coordinates but I can't easily jam it into any of my map programs.
43*15'57.11 N 
05*23'25.46 E

.....amateur astronomer located in Marseille, France captured this with
UFO-capture software :

Coordinates : 43?15?57.11? N 5?23?25.46? E
                                26 meters above sea level
                                Cam AZ :  244?
                                Approx  elevation angle : 55?

Compound picture & video :

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0Za8WHjrlU>


<http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii149/europa73/m20090330_123824__t.jpg>

Unfortunately the date was not given. It was sometime in the past I predict --never can tell with UFO software.

Elton


From mmurray at montrose.net  Thu Apr  2 13:01:41 2009
From: mmurray at montrose.net (Michael Murray)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 11:01:41 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] How about a thread to discuss hunting ethics
Message-ID: <76EA8251-D894-4F5B-B161-CA05314C9266@montrose.net>

In a constructive thread, I'd like to hear more about how the hunters  
out there discuss hunting private property with landowners, how they  
determine who owns the property, do you pay a fee normally, do you do  
a formal written agreement on split of find.  Could be that if some of  
the more seasoned List participants/hunters visit this topic in a  
somewhat detailed manner that other hunters might better arm  
themselves with the knowledge it takes to do it right.

Mike in CO



From marc.d.fries at jpl.nasa.gov  Thu Apr  2 13:01:53 2009
From: marc.d.fries at jpl.nasa.gov (Fries, Marc D)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 10:01:53 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] West strewn field
Message-ID: <C5FA3D91.7268%Marc.D.Fries@jpl.nasa.gov>

Howdy, all

    I lost track of who was producing the strewn field map for the West
fall, so I need to send this out to everyone.  Any word on when that map
will be available?  It would be very helpful to compare it to the radar data
and start work on a method of predicting strewn fields from radar returns.
I think that would be of benefit to everyone.

Cheers,
MDF


From mmurray at montrose.net  Thu Apr  2 13:26:39 2009
From: mmurray at montrose.net (Michael Murray)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 11:26:39 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] How about a thread to discuss hunting ethics
In-Reply-To: <76EA8251-D894-4F5B-B161-CA05314C9266@montrose.net>
References: <76EA8251-D894-4F5B-B161-CA05314C9266@montrose.net>
Message-ID: <2D29306A-D7DD-4F78-93F1-FF16E5FDB9C1@montrose.net>

Maybe the words "to do it right" weren't the best choice of words.  I  
meant so that one could be reasonably assured they have covered all  
the bases so that they don't offend a property owner or get in trouble  
with the law.  Hope that helps.
Mike
On Apr 2, 2009, at 11:01 AM, Michael Murray wrote:

> In a constructive thread, I'd like to hear more about how the  
> hunters out there discuss hunting private property with landowners,  
> how they determine who owns the property, do you pay a fee normally,  
> do you do a formal written agreement on split of find.  Could be  
> that if some of the more seasoned List participants/hunters visit  
> this topic in a somewhat detailed manner that other hunters might  
> better arm themselves with the knowledge it takes to do it right.
>
> Mike in CO
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


From fujmon at mac.com  Thu Apr  2 13:29:29 2009
From: fujmon at mac.com (Gary Fujihara)
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 07:29:29 -1000
Subject: [meteorite-list]  Dhofar 910 Lunar - Cash Discount
Message-ID: <9F6B9C92-9D4F-4B52-A3B9-5FFD8F624217@mac.com>

Aloha Ryan,

I saw your webshots web page and was interested in the Juancheng 197g  
individual and the Millbillillie 212g individual.  Are these still  
available, and how much are you asking?

Gary Fujihara
AstroDay Institute
105 Puhili Place, Hilo, HI 96720
(808) 640-9161, fujmon at mac.com
http://astroday.net


From raremeteorites at yahoo.com  Thu Apr  2 13:38:06 2009
From: raremeteorites at yahoo.com (Adam Hupe)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 10:38:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD-Awesome Material - Prices Reduced!
Message-ID: <546035.94207.qm@web30702.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


Dear List Members,

I have several exciting auctions listed this week.  I lowered the prices on many items, including the very rare Dhofar 700 Vesiculated Diogenite slices.  These are below what the ordinary chondrite that fell in West, Texas is going for, go figure. These were prepared at great expense by the best in the business, Montana Meteorite Laboratory. Please note all of the planetary material, some are the very last pieces I have in stock. All of these items and more are definitely worth a look.

All auctions can be found at this link:
http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/raremeteorites!_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZQQ_mdoZ

PRICE REDUCED: Dhofar 700 Vesiculated Diogenite examples. I temporarily lowered the price to below my costs this week even though last week's prices were extremely reasonable.  I did this in order to regain a portion of my enormous investment. Sometimes you win on a particular meteorite and other times you don't. I cannot understand the lack of demand for this beautiful material.  It seems collectors are willing to spend over $100.00/gram for an ordinary chondrite that fell in West Texas that is now going for less than $40.00/gram than an ultra rare vesiculated Diogenite priced for less even though this version of Dhofar 700 represents 1/20th the amount of mass. All of these examples were wire cut and polished at great expense by Marlin Cilz - Awesome Finish! 
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200326302441
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140311463280
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200326669172
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200326670104
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140311665502
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140311665919
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200327070858

PRICE REDUCED: NWA 1068 Martian Shergottite, Large Specimens:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200326314507
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140311666548

NWA 1195 Martian Meteorite Specimens; ONLY A FEW PIECES LEFT! 
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140311255901
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140311465528
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200327071664

VERY HARD TO GET NWA 2626 Martian Meteorite, Largest Piece Available:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200327072581

GIANT NWA 4473, GORGEOUS 212.9 GRAM POLYMICT DIOGENITE, Priced at my costs, maybe slightly below with cutting loss:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200327074036

Pieces of the World's Best Lunar Meteorite, NWA 5000!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200326325447
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200326675797
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200326676555
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140311669649
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140311669809
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140311670021

LAST remaining complete slice of NWA5234, Highly shocked and visuculated Eucrite:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200327079459

And many more examples worth looking at can be found at this link:
http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/raremeteorites!_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZQQ_mdoZ


Thank you for looking and if you are bidding, good luck.


Best Regards,

------------------------------------
Adam Hupe
The Hupe Collection
Team LunarRock
IMCA 2185
raremeteorites at yahoo.com 

From mikewren at gilanet.com  Thu Apr  2 13:49:05 2009
From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 10:49:05 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] How about a thread to discuss hunting ethics
In-Reply-To: <76EA8251-D894-4F5B-B161-CA05314C9266@montrose.net>
References: <76EA8251-D894-4F5B-B161-CA05314C9266@montrose.net>
Message-ID: <82F59A6B-9A7B-4EC7-914B-52D3F63C0A7A@gilanet.com>

Hello,

Good idea and I will try and work on a small essay over the next day  
or so, detailing how I deal with private property owners...

Best Wishes

Michael Cottingham


On Apr 2, 2009, at 10:01 AM, Michael Murray wrote:

> In a constructive thread, I'd like to hear more about how the  
> hunters out there discuss hunting private property with landowners,  
> how they determine who owns the property, do you pay a fee normally,  
> do you do a formal written agreement on split of find.  Could be  
> that if some of the more seasoned List participants/hunters visit  
> this topic in a somewhat detailed manner that other hunters might  
> better arm themselves with the knowledge it takes to do it right.
>
> Mike in CO
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


From epgrondine at yahoo.com  Thu Apr  2 14:02:46 2009
From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 11:02:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Television... I see television
Message-ID: <105175.16945.qm@web36903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


Hi Geoff, Brenham Steve, all - 

Congratulations. If I remember,correctly, one of the science television networks was involved in the initial Brenham recovery.

Other meteorite hunts could make great television - I suppose with the stills, footage and a little "re-enactment", several shows could be turned out. West, Moss, Carancas. 

In any case, the shows are sure to raise public awareness. 

E.P. Grondine
Man and Impact in the Americas

PS - Chicago Steve, you sure fooled me.



      

From stanleygregr at yahoo.com  Thu Apr  2 14:16:10 2009
From: stanleygregr at yahoo.com (greg stanley)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 11:16:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] How about a thread to discuss hunting ethics
Message-ID: <757422.88157.qm@web52303.mail.re2.yahoo.com>



Listoids:

At the company where I work we deal with landowners frequently.  We often need permission to install our equipment on their property.  One thing I can say; they are all different.  Some will charge us a fee and others will not.  Some will refuse us to use their property altogether; this is rare though.  We do write contracts and they are signed by both parties.  Also, it is important to keep all agreements between the owners confidential.  For instance, one owner may charge us $500 to install some equipment on there property, another only $100? and some don?t charge at all, you need to keep this confidential.

On thing to remember, it is their property and all meteorite hunters need to respect the owners and their property.  When I was in West I talked to a few landowners that had issues with hunters so they stopped allowing people to hunt on their property.  Remember? be honest and respectful.  Others in West had liability issues (in case somebody gets hurt, the landowner could be sued), I told him ?write a contract,? but he responded by saying, ?ahh.. a lawyer and get around any contract.?  So in some cases you just may not be able to change their mind and you may not be able too hunt.

Just remember? how you would feel if you saw some people on your property looking around with equipment in hand: I would certainly upset.  And also, when in doubt? get permission. Don?t assume anything.

Just my two cents,

Greg Stanley




--- On Thu, 4/2/09, michael cottingham <mikewren at gilanet.com> wrote:

From: michael cottingham <mikewren at gilanet.com>
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] How about a thread to discuss hunting ethics
To: "Michael Murray" <mmurray at montrose.net>
Cc: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Date: Thursday, April 2, 2009, 10:49 AM

Hello,

Good idea and I will try and work on a small essay over the next day or so, detailing how I deal with private property owners...

Best Wishes

Michael Cottingham


On Apr 2, 2009, at 10:01 AM, Michael Murray wrote:

> In a constructive thread, I'd like to hear more about how the hunters out there discuss hunting private property with landowners, how they determine who owns the property, do you pay a fee normally, do you do a formal written agreement on split of find.? Could be that if some of the more seasoned List participants/hunters visit this topic in a somewhat detailed manner that other hunters might better arm themselves with the knowledge it takes to do it right.
> 
> Mike in CO
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



      

From mikewren at gilanet.com  Thu Apr  2 14:30:24 2009
From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 11:30:24 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: A Real Nice Group Of Auctions This Week,
	A Main Mass, Some Larger Specimens and Many Rarities.
References: <77A963E6-FF49-4E9C-876F-6A2B237DEBD5@gilanet.com>
Message-ID: <A7C8E290-A88D-499A-A043-BECF4777EAF4@gilanet.com>



Begin forwarded message:

> From: michael cottingham <mikewren at gilanet.com>
> Date: April 2, 2009 11:29:29 AM GMT-07:00
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: AD: A Real Nice Group Of Auctions This Week, A Main Mass,  
> Some Larger Specimens and Many Rarities.
>
> Here is this week's Space Rocks!
>
>
> HIGHLIGHTS:
>
> RARE-A SLICE Of CARANCAS, Peru, H4-5, 2.17g, My Last Auction Slice!
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326745949
>
> (New) Olivine Diogenite-NWA 5480, 23.72 gram, A very Large End Cut  
> and Worth A Lot!
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326751497
>
> Rare "Hammer Stone" DIEP RIVER, S.Africa,LTKW, One of The Rarest!
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326770735
>
> (NEW) NWA 4851, L6 With Shock Lines, 236 Gram, My Last 1/2 stone of  
> This Beauty!
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326769256
>
> (New) WILBUR WASH, Az., L6, Slice, 44.98 gram, A Very Large Slice  
> Being Offered!
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326759168
>
> CANYON DIABLO Individual, 268 gram, A Really Nice Specimen.
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326758383
>
> Superb New-Main Mass, NWA 5541, H6, 138 gram, MAIN MASS * MAIN MASS
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326760336
>
> Ungrouped Ataxite, DRONINO, Russia, 152 g, MY LAST SLICE!
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326757030
>
> Rare Mesosiderite- NWA 1878 , LTKW, 12.2 gram, A Real Cool Slice!
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326749654
>
> Very Rare-COOLAC, IAB Iron From Australia, ONLY ONE I HAVE!
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326757694
>
> Very Rare and Beautiful, NWA 801, CR2, 6.48g, My Last Large Slice!
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326747907
>
> NWA 5537, LL3.5, LTKW 10.32g, Take A Look At This One...
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326761350
>
> Rare NWA 2696, Howardite From Africa, 7.66g, Nice Slice...
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326746994
>
> Museum Specimen of FUKANG, Pallasite, 1664g, Actually A Great Deal  
> For The Right Person.. Wholesale Price or Less!
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326372531
>
> Rare Carbonaceous CO3.6, NWA 1277, 0.94 gram...
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326750254
>
> An Early # NWA 103, L6 From Africa, 39.76g, My Last Specimen...
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326749027
>
> Rare NWA 2932, Mesosiderite, Nice! 8.13 gram, Really Nice Slice...
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326748461
>
> Seldom Available BRISCOE, Texas, L5, 3.22g, a simple classic
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326745978
>
> Nice H3 From Namibia, KORRA KORRABES, 17.99 g, nice specimen.
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326745968
>
> Rare Fall From Turkmenistan, DASHOGUZ, 0.46g, last one I have.
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326745965
>
> Rare Type, H3.5, WELLMAN (f), Texas, 4.03g, a very rare type.
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326745955
>
> (New) CV3, NWA 5546 From Africa, 44.32 gram, a Really GREAT and  
> Large Specimen!
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326761993
>
> Classic GOLD BASIN, Arizona, L4, 79.72 gram, A Classic. Nice  
> Individual!
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326766778
>
> Seldom Available TAHOKA, Texas, L5, 2.4 g, A nice rarity.
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326768078
>
> VYATKA, Russia, H4/5 Chondrite, 5.86g
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326767554
>
> Classic GOLD BASIN, Arizona, L4, 17.75 gram, nice slice!
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326766785
>
> Seldom Available SOUSLOVO, Russia, L4, 2.04g, hardly ever available.
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326767171
>
>
>
> I also have some West, Texas slices and individuals on sale about  
> 10% off. Do not expect me to offer these any lower. These are  
> pristine specimens from before the rains. Although, I have more I  
> will be listing that my son and I found after the rains and some of  
> these will be lower in cost. Even though the total known weight is  
> now probably around 12kg., very little of this witnessed and unique  
> fall will ever be on the market. I really have not seen that much  
> for sale and none of us probably won't. That fall is about over, as  
> far as recoverable stones go.
>
> (VERY NEW) The WEST, Texas Fall, L6, 0.45g
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326381394
>
> (VERY NEW) The WEST, Texas Fall, L6, 3.27g
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326381380
>
> (VERY NEW) The WEST, Texas Fall, L6, 0.30g
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326373735
>
> (VERY NEW) The WEST, Texas Fall, L6, 0.66g
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326381365
>
> (VERY NEW) The WEST, Texas Fall, L6, 17.76g
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326375764
>
> (VERY NEW) The WEST, Texas Fall, L6, 21.74g
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326375767
>
> and of course many, many more great West Specimens!
>
> Thanks for Looking and Best Wishes
>
> Michael Cottingham
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


From meteoritefinder at gmail.com  Thu Apr  2 15:00:50 2009
From: meteoritefinder at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 12:00:50 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] How about a thread to discuss hunting ethics
In-Reply-To: <76EA8251-D894-4F5B-B161-CA05314C9266@montrose.net>
References: <76EA8251-D894-4F5B-B161-CA05314C9266@montrose.net>
Message-ID: <468bf6050904021200n13b4346ar72ce2798096f447a@mail.gmail.com>

Hello everyone I am not going to get involved in a long discussion
here, I just want to state for the record what happened to me. I was
charged with walking down an UN posted dirt road. I was charged with 2
counts as I parked my rental vehicle in plain sight on a highway and
did walk down this UN posted dirt road on 2 different days.  In
Georgia they call it Criminal Trespass and it covers a very wide range
of offenses. I was not hunting meteorites on the property I was simply
trying to reach the area I thought might contain meteorites. I did not
know the road was private and there were no signs that stated it was
private. I was informed that in Georgia it is not necessary to post a
road as private. I also realize that if I were raised in Georgia I
would have likely known the road was private, but since I spend most
of my time in the wide open west. I felt I was safe to walk down this
dirt road and try to get to the area I was hoping had meteorite in it,
that was still miles past the area of this dirt road.
 I was asked by the Judge of Burke county to inform every meteorite
hunter that you are not welcome in Burke county and I can personally
guarantee you that they are not kidding. Do not go to Burke county and
knock on doors as you will be very sorry you came.

On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 10:01 AM, Michael Murray <mmurray at montrose.net> wrote:
> In a constructive thread, I'd like to hear more about how the hunters out
> there discuss hunting private property with landowners, how they determine
> who owns the property, do you pay a fee normally, do you do a formal written
> agreement on split of find. ?Could be that if some of the more seasoned List
> participants/hunters visit this topic in a somewhat detailed manner that
> other hunters might better arm themselves with the knowledge it takes to do
> it right.
>
> Mike in CO
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>



-- 
Mike Miller 230 Greenway Dr. Kingman Az 86401
www.meteoritefinder.com
     928-753-6825

From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de  Thu Apr  2 14:51:41 2009
From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de)
Date: 02 Apr 2009 18:51:41 UT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Re-2: Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold
	ofChicago...wasnwa 1794
Message-ID: <DIIE.0000008100003A96@paulinet.de>

> He's not the person who turns people away from the hobby;
> it's mean-spirited people like you who make others feel unwelcome.
> His posts have never been derogatory. Ill-conceived, maybe. Lacking
> foresight, probably in many cases. But malevolent, like yours, never.

Jason, for heaven's sake. Please stop such silly talk. I've always considered
you an intelligent person who knows what he is talking about but this goes
way too far!!!

Best from Germany,

Bernd


To: meteoritekid at gmail.com
    meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com


From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Thu Apr  2 15:40:04 2009
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Mike Gilmer)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 14:40:04 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] How about a thread to discuss hunting ethics
In-Reply-To: <468bf6050904021200n13b4346ar72ce2798096f447a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <76EA8251-D894-4F5B-B161-CA05314C9266@montrose.net>
	<468bf6050904021200n13b4346ar72ce2798096f447a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e51421550904021240x4b13fff1ra4c84bd0950a0f5e@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Mike and List,

I apologize to Mike and Sonny for my harsh words earlier.  I live in
the deep south and I should know what the local "good old boy" club is
capable of.  I think it's safe to say that I will steer well clear of
Burke County Georgia or any county that borders on it, and maybe any
county that borders on the border counties. ;)

As someone who has lived for 25+ years in the deep south, including
rural areas of Florida, Mississippi and Louisiana, I can testify that
one does not go down unmarked dirt roads, park the car, get out, and
start walking around.  One just doesn't do it.  Private roads are not
always marked and sometimes the public roads aren't marked either
(seriously).  One can usually park in a driveaway at a house and go up
to the front door and knock politely without much worry.  But, there
are exceptions.  We get a lot of characters in the deep south and some
of them aren't neighborly.  Some areas are more xenophobic than
others.  For example, I live in the parts of southern Louisiana that
the movie Southern Comfort was about - not unlike the Deliverance and
Georgia connection.  It presents a negative view of the locals in
these poor backwards areas.  But, I can say that some areas are more
friendly than others.  Here in Cajun country, you can ignore the
stereotype in the movies - it just doesn't exist any more.  Every
"cajun" in sight has a blackberry or bluetooth headset.  Around here,
people are more forgiving and friendly to outsiders.  I doubt you and
Sonny would have received such a hostile reception here in Cajun
country - you would have been offered gumbo and probably made a
business partner.  Of course, we have some less-friendly types also,
but they tend to be in the minority.

As a teenager in rural Florida, we used to hike long distances and go
shooting our pellet guns in the extensive undeveloped wooded areas of
central Florida.  I can recall one time that we jumped a barbwire
fence (a no-no and very stupid) and found our way onto a farmer's
field, within minutes a man in the distance on a tractor jumped down
and walked towards us, raising something.  We ran, by the time we got
back over the fence, we heard a booming shot and something (rocksalt?)
hit the tall grass around us.  We never looked back and I never jumped
another strange fence.

You're a good guy Mike, we talked in private before, and I trust what
you say.  And I'll stay out of that area of Georgia.

Best regards and happier hunting,

MikeG

PS - so, for the record, the wild west is friendlier than the deep
south?  (I hope so!)



On 4/2/09, Mike Miller <meteoritefinder at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello everyone I am not going to get involved in a long discussion
> here, I just want to state for the record what happened to me. I was
> charged with walking down an UN posted dirt road. I was charged with 2
> counts as I parked my rental vehicle in plain sight on a highway and
> did walk down this UN posted dirt road on 2 different days.  In
> Georgia they call it Criminal Trespass and it covers a very wide range
> of offenses. I was not hunting meteorites on the property I was simply
> trying to reach the area I thought might contain meteorites. I did not
> know the road was private and there were no signs that stated it was
> private. I was informed that in Georgia it is not necessary to post a
> road as private. I also realize that if I were raised in Georgia I
> would have likely known the road was private, but since I spend most
> of my time in the wide open west. I felt I was safe to walk down this
> dirt road and try to get to the area I was hoping had meteorite in it,
> that was still miles past the area of this dirt road.
>  I was asked by the Judge of Burke county to inform every meteorite
> hunter that you are not welcome in Burke county and I can personally
> guarantee you that they are not kidding. Do not go to Burke county and
> knock on doors as you will be very sorry you came.
>
> On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 10:01 AM, Michael Murray <mmurray at montrose.net>
> wrote:
>> In a constructive thread, I'd like to hear more about how the hunters out
>> there discuss hunting private property with landowners, how they determine
>> who owns the property, do you pay a fee normally, do you do a formal
>> written
>> agreement on split of find.  Could be that if some of the more seasoned
>> List
>> participants/hunters visit this topic in a somewhat detailed manner that
>> other hunters might better arm themselves with the knowledge it takes to
>> do
>> it right.
>>
>> Mike in CO
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Mike Miller 230 Greenway Dr. Kingman Az 86401
> www.meteoritefinder.com
>      928-753-6825
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


-- 

.........................................................
Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA)
Member of the Meteoritical Society.
Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network.
Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com
..........................................................

From daistiho at hotmail.com  Thu Apr  2 15:48:01 2009
From: daistiho at hotmail.com (tracy latimer)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 19:48:01 +0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] meteorite news -2 arrested update
	(Dude--	Where's My Car edition)
In-Reply-To: <3ak8t417l2ravohtifr5nsas23v7r8v6q6@4ax.com>
References: <535231.21171.qm@web53209.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<2A7AE05591464D8287DCCAC10680F522@Keith2> 
	<3ak8t417l2ravohtifr5nsas23v7r8v6q6@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <COL111-W619692B28F67E423CA9635CA880@phx.gbl>


I'd hate to break down next to this lady's farm.  I can imagine being arrested while walking to her house to ask if I could call a tow truck!
 
OT:  Although he may have been annoying to some, I will miss Chicago Steve.  I'm sorry he felt he couldn't even lurk on the List any more, but he may have had to go 'cold turkey' and completely put away anything having to do with meteorites.
 
Tracy Latimer

----------------------------------------
> From: cynapse at charter.net
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 00:48:44 -0500
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] meteorite news -2 arrested update (Dude-- Where's My Car edition)
>
> Finally, a detailed account:
>
> http://www.wjbf.com/jbf/news/crime/article/meteorite_hunters_jailed_in_burke_county_for_trespassing/12297/
>
_________________________________________________________________
Rediscover Hotmail?: Now available on your iPhone or BlackBerry
http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Mobile1_042009

From mmurray at montrose.net  Thu Apr  2 16:13:46 2009
From: mmurray at montrose.net (Michael Murray)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 14:13:46 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] How about a thread to discuss hunting ethics
In-Reply-To: <2D29306A-D7DD-4F78-93F1-FF16E5FDB9C1@montrose.net>
References: <76EA8251-D894-4F5B-B161-CA05314C9266@montrose.net>
	<2D29306A-D7DD-4F78-93F1-FF16E5FDB9C1@montrose.net>
Message-ID: <605CB042-7676-4192-9CF1-2D5DDBBE562D@montrose.net>

Here's a couple things pertaining to Colorado you might want to check  
out before planning your hunt in this state:  Each person must have a  
Colorado Wildlife Habitat Stamp on their person if they plan to cross  
or enter a State Wildlife Area or some of the State leased properties.  
The rules for being on State owned properties is definitely worth  
checking into before heading out.  Things like metal detectors could  
be an issue in some places.  Colorado has, like 20-some other states,  
adopted some pretty restrictive regulations governing ATV use.   By  
ATVs I mean unlicensed off-road vehicles or motorcycles.
Mike



On Apr 2, 2009, at 11:26 AM, Michael Murray wrote:

> Maybe the words "to do it right" weren't the best choice of words.   
> I meant so that one could be reasonably assured they have covered  
> all the bases so that they don't offend a property owner or get in  
> trouble with the law.  Hope that helps.
> Mike
> On Apr 2, 2009, at 11:01 AM, Michael Murray wrote:
>
>> In a constructive thread, I'd like to hear more about how the  
>> hunters out there discuss hunting private property with landowners,  
>> how they determine who owns the property, do you pay a fee  
>> normally, do you do a formal written agreement on split of find.   
>> Could be that if some of the more seasoned List participants/ 
>> hunters visit this topic in a somewhat detailed manner that other  
>> hunters might better arm themselves with the knowledge it takes to  
>> do it right.
>>
>> Mike in CO
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


From stlouismeteorites at gmail.com  Thu Apr  2 16:20:42 2009
From: stlouismeteorites at gmail.com (Karl Aston)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 15:20:42 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - 94 g West oriented 100% primary crust
Message-ID: <34c0c5310904021320l74450b83p59a3e060233251d1@mail.gmail.com>

Hey list,

I have a very nicely shaped, oriented (has a 'tail'), 94g 100% primary
fusion crusted West meteorite which I found on 3/20 after one period
of rainfall had hit the strewn field.  Field photos of the meteorite
insitu and next to the impact pit are available as well as a signed
bill of sale from the landowner.  Very few individuals in this weight
range will ever be available, especially with orientation and 100%
primary fusion crust.  Contact me off-list for details and photos if
interested.

Karl Aston
314-614-9118

From Metorman46 at aol.com  Thu Apr  2 16:22:52 2009
From: Metorman46 at aol.com (Metorman46 at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 16:22:52 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] -2 arrested update (Dude-- Where's My Car edition)
Message-ID: <c10.57c674ad.3706789c@aol.com>


Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] meteorite news  -2 arrested update
(Dude--    Where's My  Car edition)


Why not take a 12-gauge shotgun and shoot the image of  our hobby?  It
would have the same effect.

I'll wait to hear Mike  and Sonny's side of the story before I pass
judgement, but unless it's a good  explanation - they have both lost my
respect and business.

MikeG  
I imagine meteorite hunting is exciting,especially when you are actually in  
a known strewnfield and it could possibly be an easy thing to throw caution to 
 the wind when on a hot lead,even when you know you should get permission 
from  the land owner so,instead of being some kind of judge in this matter i 
think i  will,in my own mind, give them this one as LESSON LEARNED.We all make 
mistakes,i  think.They got caught and paid for their mistake and that is that.I 
THINK.I  personally will respect them more if they continue their quest and 
sell more  specimens for us to enjoy.GO GET EM SONNY AND MIKE AND ALL.
Best Regards;Herman Archer IMCA # 2770
**************New Low Prices on Dell Laptops ? Starting at $399 
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220433304x1201394525/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubl
eclick.net%2Fclk%3B213540718%3B35046385%3Be)

From cynapse at charter.net  Thu Apr  2 17:43:05 2009
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 16:43:05 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] meteorite news -2 arrested update
	(Dude--	Where's My Car edition)
In-Reply-To: <COL111-W619692B28F67E423CA9635CA880@phx.gbl>
References: <535231.21171.qm@web53209.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<2A7AE05591464D8287DCCAC10680F522@Keith2>
	<3ak8t417l2ravohtifr5nsas23v7r8v6q6@4ax.com>
	<COL111-W619692B28F67E423CA9635CA880@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <8kbat4tai9cnd1j833c5pmpe5ej93l19ve@4ax.com>

On Thu, 2 Apr 2009 19:48:01 +0000, you wrote:

>
>I'd hate to break down next to this lady's farm.  
>I can imagine being arrested while walking to 
>her house to ask if I could call a tow truck!

Read this last paragraph from the article I posted:

"Would-be criminals should probably take heed. Last October, the same homeowner,
at age 66, held two burglars face-down in the dirt with her pistol while she
waited for deputies to come arrest them."

So this is an elderly(ish) person, who knows the state of her health, who knows
if she lives alone, who has faced what apparently is an ongoing problem of
poachers hunting on her land (read as, strangers coming on to her land and
shooting guns) and there were camouflage clothes found in the car.  If she had
killed both of them on sight, not only would she likely not have been charged,
she would probably been given positive news coverage for being able to defend
herself at her age and (sorry, ladies) sex.  If she could have held a half-way
straight face while claiming that you thought you were defending yourself, she
probably would have been in the clear.

http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulletin/second-amendment-gun-legislation-discussion/8245-georgia-house-passes-castle-doctrine-statute.html

A good rule of thumb about trespassing on someone else's property is to assume
you will be shot until you learn otherwise.

From jkg2 at cox.net  Thu Apr  2 16:54:01 2009
From: jkg2 at cox.net (John Gwilliam)
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 13:54:01 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] How about a thread to discuss hunting  ethics
In-Reply-To: <605CB042-7676-4192-9CF1-2D5DDBBE562D@montrose.net>
References: <76EA8251-D894-4F5B-B161-CA05314C9266@montrose.net>
	<2D29306A-D7DD-4F78-93F1-FF16E5FDB9C1@montrose.net>
	<605CB042-7676-4192-9CF1-2D5DDBBE562D@montrose.net>
Message-ID: <20090402205410.VRRB27308.fed1rmmtao101.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net>

The issue of trespassing on Arizona State lands should be addressed 
here as well. Whether you're hunting meteorites, hiking, bird 
watching or participating in any other activity on Arizona State 
lands, you must have a special permit. I must be clear about the 
meteorite hunting issue. Having one of the special Arizona State 
Lands permits doesn't give you the right to hunt for meteorites (or 
anything else for that matter) while on Arizona land.

My wife and I were bird watching at Queen Valley ( close to the 
Florence Highway turn-off east of Apache Junction) when a State 
officer approached us and asked to see our permit. Not having one, we 
thought we'd get a polite reminder about proper procedures, but 
instead got threatened with a citation or arrest if we remained where 
we were of showed up again without the proper permit.  This guy was 
all business, nothing pleasant or polite in the least way. We now 
carry one of the special access permits in our vehicle.  Be careful out there!

Best,

John Gwilliam - not a member of the Ssteve Arnold Fan Club

At 01:13 PM 4/2/2009, Michael Murray wrote:
>Here's a couple things pertaining to Colorado you might want to check
>out before planning your hunt in this state:  Each person must have a
>Colorado Wildlife Habitat Stamp on their person if they plan to cross
>or enter a State Wildlife Area or some of the State leased properties.
>The rules for being on State owned properties is definitely worth
>checking into before heading out.  Things like metal detectors could
>be an issue in some places.  Colorado has, like 20-some other states,
>adopted some pretty restrictive regulations governing ATV use.   By
>ATVs I mean unlicensed off-road vehicles or motorcycles.
>Mike
>
>
>
>On Apr 2, 2009, at 11:26 AM, Michael Murray wrote:
>
>>Maybe the words "to do it right" weren't the best choice of words.
>>I meant so that one could be reasonably assured they have covered
>>all the bases so that they don't offend a property owner or get in
>>trouble with the law.  Hope that helps.
>>Mike
>>On Apr 2, 2009, at 11:01 AM, Michael Murray wrote:
>>
>>>In a constructive thread, I'd like to hear more about how the
>>>hunters out there discuss hunting private property with landowners,
>>>how they determine who owns the property, do you pay a fee
>>>normally, do you do a formal written agreement on split of find.
>>>Could be that if some of the more seasoned List participants/ 
>>>hunters visit this topic in a somewhat detailed manner that other
>>>hunters might better arm themselves with the knowledge it takes to
>>>do it right.
>>>
>>>Mike in CO
>>>
>>>
>>>______________________________________________
>>>http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>>Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>______________________________________________
>http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>Meteorite-list mailing list
>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

John Gwilliam

Too many people were born on third base
and go through life thinking they hit a triple. 


From majbaermann at web.de  Thu Apr  2 17:05:52 2009
From: majbaermann at web.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Matthias_B=E4rmann?=)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 23:05:52 +0200
Subject: [meteorite-list] Re-2: Wire Fraud and Steve
	ArnoldofChicago...wasnwa 1794
References: <DIIE.0000008100003A96@paulinet.de>
Message-ID: <BB6F20B676EB4C27A6FBF118B3DF5AEA@thinkcentre>


Thanks, Bernd. Your words, words of a list-authority, are highly welcome.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <bernd.pauli at paulinet.de>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 8:51 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Re-2: Wire Fraud and Steve 
ArnoldofChicago...wasnwa 1794


>> He's not the person who turns people away from the hobby;
>> it's mean-spirited people like you who make others feel unwelcome.
>> His posts have never been derogatory. Ill-conceived, maybe. Lacking
>> foresight, probably in many cases. But malevolent, like yours, never.
>
> Jason, for heaven's sake. Please stop such silly talk. I've always 
> considered
> you an intelligent person who knows what he is talking about but this goes
> way too far!!!
>
> Best from Germany,
>
> Bernd
>
>
> To: meteoritekid at gmail.com
>    meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 


From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de  Thu Apr  2 16:58:43 2009
From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de)
Date: 02 Apr 2009 20:58:43 UT
Subject: [meteorite-list] How about a thread to discuss hunting ethics
Message-ID: <DIIE.0000004400003A9B@paulinet.de>

Hi John and List,

"This guy was all business, nothing pleasant or polite in the least way."

This is probably what Jay meant when he wrote:

"I suppose that's the American way ..."

With due respect, there are "Brits" and there are "Germans", but what are
"Americans"? They are a "melting pot" or a "salad bowl", ... in other words
they've got a bit of this and a bit of that and something like "stay away from
my property sounds so very "German" that it could have happened here in
Germany ;-)

Best wishes,

Bernd (not trying to start another diatribe!!!)




From ks1u at att.net  Thu Apr  2 17:16:48 2009
From: ks1u at att.net (George Blahun Jr)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 17:16:48 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] How about a thread to discuss hunting ethics
In-Reply-To: <468bf6050904021200n13b4346ar72ce2798096f447a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <76EA8251-D894-4F5B-B161-CA05314C9266@montrose.net>
	<468bf6050904021200n13b4346ar72ce2798096f447a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <54936B52-532E-4B08-9BE3-8EC75E66C417@att.net>

Mike:
      Thanks for sharing your experience and views.  Your comments  
really struck home for me.  Many of us tend to think because we all  
live in the USA that things are not that different a few hundred miles  
in one direction or another.  During the 1970s I hitch hiked and  
hopped freight trains to see the US.  The south was a harsh  
dichotomy.  On one hand, I met some of the nicest most trusting people  
who opened their homes to me.  On the other hand, I was shot at,  
assaulted with bottles from passing cars, harassed and chased by law  
enforcement.  It was a quick lesson in cultural differences.  While I  
was not officially collecting meteorites back then, I learned very  
quickly that wandering far from urban areas was done at great risk.  I  
have literally dozens of stories which people have a difficult time  
believing, but your recent experience tells me that in many areas not  
much has changed.  This is why I eventually tried to restrict my  
travels to as close to the coast as possible.  Hopefully, others on  
this list will take your warning seriously and not venture into any  
area for which they don't have permission or any place that doesn't  
want us.  I for one am content to let residents of the stone age keep  
to themselves.

George

From carothersdl at gmail.com  Thu Apr  2 17:21:13 2009
From: carothersdl at gmail.com (dave carothers)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 17:21:13 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Re-2: Wire Fraud and
	SteveArnoldofChicago...wasnwa 1794
References: <DIIE.0000008100003A96@paulinet.de>
	<BB6F20B676EB4C27A6FBF118B3DF5AEA@thinkcentre>
Message-ID: <9149F26C879C4E579BD4E730F50BA67A@your291etg47cr>

AMEN!!!


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Matthias B?rmann" <majbaermann at web.de>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>; <bernd.pauli at paulinet.de>
Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 5:05 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Re-2: Wire Fraud and 
SteveArnoldofChicago...wasnwa 1794


>
> Thanks, Bernd. Your words, words of a list-authority, are highly welcome.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <bernd.pauli at paulinet.de>
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 8:51 PM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Re-2: Wire Fraud and Steve 
> ArnoldofChicago...wasnwa 1794
>
>
>>> He's not the person who turns people away from the hobby;
>>> it's mean-spirited people like you who make others feel unwelcome.
>>> His posts have never been derogatory. Ill-conceived, maybe. Lacking
>>> foresight, probably in many cases. But malevolent, like yours, never.
>>
>> Jason, for heaven's sake. Please stop such silly talk. I've always 
>> considered
>> you an intelligent person who knows what he is talking about but this 
>> goes
>> way too far!!!
>>
>> Best from Germany,
>>
>> Bernd
>>
>>
>> To: meteoritekid at gmail.com
>>    meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 


From MeteorHntr at aol.com  Thu Apr  2 17:20:46 2009
From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 17:20:46 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] -2 arrested update (Dude-- Where's My Car
	edition)
Message-ID: <c0d.4e07afe8.3706862e@aol.com>

List,

I haven't talked with either Sonny  or Mike yet, but some of this story 
smells a little fishy.  

Not  that you can believe anything you see or read in the media, as stories 
seldom  get confirmation before deadlines have to be reached, and stories tend 
to get  sensationalized for sales and ratings purposes.  After all, the first 
story  just gave the teaser info and for only $28 more you can read the rest 
of the  story on the paper's website.

One thing that sticks out in the second  story, was that it was reported that 
Honorable Judge Jerry M. Daniel told the  guys to each pay their $2,000 fine 
then told them "to get out of dodge.?   Now, if he actually said that, isn't 
that a bit strange?  I mean, after  child molesters pay their debt to society, 
even they still get to move back into  their old communities.  Does a judge 
actually have authority to ban people  from an entire county from the bench?  

Does this imply that  meteorite hunters are worse than child molesters?

It was mentioned that  there often is a "good ole boys" network that 
supercedes the rule of law in many  places.  I would never imply that this might be 
the case here, but it makes  one wonder.

Of course, I can understand someone not wanting people on  their property.  
And that is why it is always good to get permission to  hunt, and if that 
permission is in writing, all the better.

I  had an "Aha" experience when I was driving with a fellow meteorite hunter 
at  West a couple of weeks ago as we drove up on a land owner and I stopped, 
got out  and introduced myself, and asked for permission to hunt on his ground. 
 The  man said quite plainly "No."  So I asked him "Why not?"  And he could  
not (or would not) give me a reason.  We talked a little more, when I asked  
him if he was planning to look himself, and he said he was too busy to do it  
himself.  Again, I asked him why I couldn't look.

He did not say "I  don't want you spooking my cattle."  Or "I don't want the 
liability if you  get hurt."  Or "I don't want you making money off of 
something that I would  just as soon let rust away."  

He didn't offer a good reason or even  a bad reason for that matter. 

When it was obvious I wasn't going to get  permission, I excused myself and 
went back to the car to go find another land  owner down the road to ask.  When 
I got in the car, my friend asked me:  "You know why he doesn't want to let 
you hunt don't you?"  I said "No,  why?"  He stated matter of factly: "He 
didn't want you to find his  Marijuana Patch."

Aha!!!

Of course I don't know if that was the  real case, but if it was, it made a 
lot of sense, and it would explain why he  couldn't give me a logical reason on 
why he didn't want me on his ground.   If he had a $500,000 cash crop growing 
out there, only bad could come out of  someone wondering around his land.

I am not saying that Sonny and Mike  almost stumbled onto a secret garden in 
Georgia, or that the judge and other law  enforcement personnel might have 
been partners in some "Southern Mafia" where  they would want ALL meteorite 
hunters to stay out of the ENTIRE county and away  from their retirement fund.

I am just saying something seems a little  fishy with this story.  I am sure 
we will never know the full  story.

Steve Arnold
Arkansas (some day soon I hope I can drop the  "Arkansas" tag for good)


**************New Low Prices on Dell Laptops ? Starting at $399 
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220433304x1201394525/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubl
eclick.net%2Fclk%3B213540718%3B35046385%3Be)

From cynapse at charter.net  Thu Apr  2 18:26:44 2009
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 17:26:44 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] -2 arrested update (Dude-- Where's My Car
	edition)
In-Reply-To: <c0d.4e07afe8.3706862e@aol.com>
References: <c0d.4e07afe8.3706862e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <qpeat4p1oe57obipcn192d9r2ebe2v4f1r@4ax.com>

On Thu, 2 Apr 2009 17:20:46 EDT, you wrote:

>I am not saying that Sonny and Mike  almost stumbled onto a secret garden in 
>Georgia, or that the judge and other law  enforcement personnel might have 
>been partners in some "Southern Mafia" where  they would want ALL meteorite 
>hunters to stay out of the ENTIRE county and away  from their retirement fund.

Good thing you aren't saying that, because that's just silly.  They had wandered
onto private property, not on to the set of The Dukes of Hazzard.

From wahlperry at aol.com  Thu Apr  2 17:36:19 2009
From: wahlperry at aol.com (wahlperry at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 17:36:19 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] How about a thread to discuss hunting ethics
In-Reply-To: <468bf6050904021200n13b4346ar72ce2798096f447a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <76EA8251-D894-4F5B-B161-CA05314C9266@montrose.net>
	<468bf6050904021200n13b4346ar72ce2798096f447a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8CB81F231F51B86-1E8-90E@FWM-M18.sysops.aol.com>

Hi All,

I really have nothing more to add to Mike's statement regarding what 
happened in Georgia!  Meteorite hunters are not welcome trust us on 
this! I can not tell you guys how nice it was to walk into my house and 
put my arms around my family.

Sonny



-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Miller <meteoritefinder at gmail.com>
To: Michael Murray <mmurray at montrose.net>
Cc: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 12:00 pm
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] How about a thread to discuss hunting 
ethics






Hello everyone I am not going to get involved in a long discussion
here, I just want to state for the record what happened to me. I was
charged with walking down an UN posted dirt road. I was charged with 2
counts as I parked my rental vehicle in plain sight on a highway and
did walk down this UN posted dirt road on 2 different days.  In
Georgia they call it Criminal Trespass and it covers a very wide range
of offenses. I was not hunting meteorites on the property I was simply
trying to reach the area I thought might contain meteorites. I did not
know the road was private and there were no signs that stated it was
private. I was informed that in Georgia it is not necessary to post a
road as private. I also realize that if I were raised in Georgia I
would have likely known the road was private, but since I spend most
of my time in the wide open west. I felt 
I was safe to walk down this
dirt road and try to get to the area I was hoping had meteorite in it,
that was still miles past the area of this dirt road.
 I was asked by the Judge of Burke county to inform every meteorite
hunter that you are not welcome in Burke county and I can personally
guarantee you that they are not kidding. Do not go to Burke county and
knock on doors as you will be very sorry you came.

On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 10:01 AM, Michael Murray <mmurray at montrose.net> 
wrote:
> In a constructive thread, I'd like to hear more about how the hunters 
out
> there discuss hunting private property with landowners, how they 
determine
> who owns the property, do you pay a fee normally, do you do a formal 
written
> agreement on split of find. ?Could be that if some of the more 
seasoned List
> participants/hunters visit this topic in a somewhat detailed manner 
that
> other hunters might better arm themselves with the knowledge it takes 
to do
> it right.
>
> Mike in CO
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>



--
Mike Miller 230 Greenway Dr. Kingman Az 86401
www.meteoritefinder.com
     928-753-6825
______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.c
om
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list






From rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com  Thu Apr  2 17:40:32 2009
From: rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com (Rob McCafferty)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 14:40:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] How about a thread to discuss hunting ethics
In-Reply-To: <DIIE.0000004400003A9B@paulinet.de>
Message-ID: <144135.42107.qm@web55205.mail.re4.yahoo.com>


In the UK we say "STAY ORF MY LAAAND!", usually with a farmers shotgun in hand.


--- On Thu, 4/2/09, bernd.pauli at paulinet.de <bernd.pauli at paulinet.de> wrote:

> From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de <bernd.pauli at paulinet.de>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] How about a thread to discuss hunting ethics
> To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Thursday, April 2, 2009, 9:58 PM
> Hi John and List,
> 
> "This guy was all business, nothing pleasant or polite
> in the least way."
> 
> This is probably what Jay meant when he wrote:
> 
> "I suppose that's the American way ..."
> 
> With due respect, there are "Brits" and there are
> "Germans", but what are
> "Americans"? They are a "melting pot"
> or a "salad bowl", ... in other words
> they've got a bit of this and a bit of that and
> something like "stay away from
> my property sounds so very "German" that it could
> have happened here in
> Germany ;-)
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Bernd (not trying to start another diatribe!!!)
> 
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


      

From raremeteorites at yahoo.com  Thu Apr  2 17:45:34 2009
From: raremeteorites at yahoo.com (Adam Hupe)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 14:45:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] How about a thread to discuss hunting ethics
Message-ID: <190056.10106.qm@web30703.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


I am not judging anybody in particular about this. I know Sonny very well and fully believe the statement Mike Miller gave. I have hunted with Sonny before and know he follows the rules.

Just like any good Treasure Hunter (THr) knows, follow the rules or be cast out permanently.  Treasure hunters had such a bad reputation during the 70s and 80s that most land was deemed off-limits. Only after developing a code of ethics and policing each other was the hobby restored.

It took a lot of volunteer work with metal detectors over several years to restore faith in a hobby which almost died. THrs as they are referred to, helped law enforcement recover valuable evidence with their metal detectors.  They left property in better condition than when they arrived by removing all trash. They always asked permission to search private property. Sometimes permission was not granted but informed THrs were polite about it anyway knowing that one sour puss can ruin it for a lot of other people. They never left holes behind and learned how to remove objects without destroying the property.  They donated historical items which were found to museums.  They volunteered to help people recover lost rings without a monetary reward, only accepting the smile on somebodies face as more than enough payment. They made sure that newbies to the hobby learned the rules quickly so as not to endanger the great avocation for others.

The press was avoided at all costs because it nearly destroyed the hobby permanently.  All press was considered bad at the time because the reporters always turned a good story into a bad one.  Lets face it, the press would rather report bad news than human interest stories. They let the press die down while they slowly rebuilt the reputation. Now, mainly a spokesperson for each club will address the press and only to promote the hobby, not themselves. Any body caught patting themselves on the back and bragging about press they received was quickly admonished. This is how fragile the situation had become.

THing is now deemed a healthy and thriving hobby that an entire family can enjoy. The press chasers that were so busy patting themselves on the back have now been vilified.

I consider hunting for meteorites just another form of Treasure Hunting is what I am getting at.   Let the bad press die down before it is too late and more land is closed to hunters.

Best Regards,

Adam






From carothersdl at gmail.com  Thu Apr  2 17:47:34 2009
From: carothersdl at gmail.com (dave carothers)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 17:47:34 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] -2 arrested update (Dude-- Where's My
	Caredition)
References: <c0d.4e07afe8.3706862e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <A2B1124F65574B2D8204FF0E24119927@your291etg47cr>

Steve,

Read the article again.  A 66 year old lady confronted two burglers on her 
property last October. Given that, Sonny and Mike are lucky they only had to 
pay a $2K fine.  They might have been  shot.  I like and respect Sonny and 
Mike, but if they didn't ask permission in the first place, they had no 
business on the pproperty and they only have themselves to blame for the 
outcome.

Regarding the Judge and his "Get out of Dodge" statement.  That's not 
uncommon.  If you've ever seen some of the videos of cops in action, you'll 
see that they tell suspicious people to get out of neighborhoods all the 
time.

With regards to a land owner failing to give you a reason why you couldn't 
search his property... what makes you think he has an obligation to do so? 
It is enough that he owns the land and has said "No".  With all due respect 
to you, persuing it further with the man is pretty arrogant.

Regards,

Dave

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <MeteorHntr at aol.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 5:20 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] -2 arrested update (Dude-- Where's My 
Caredition)


> List,
>
> I haven't talked with either Sonny  or Mike yet, but some of this story
> smells a little fishy.
>
> Not  that you can believe anything you see or read in the media, as 
> stories
> seldom  get confirmation before deadlines have to be reached, and stories 
> tend
> to get  sensationalized for sales and ratings purposes.  After all, the 
> first
> story  just gave the teaser info and for only $28 more you can read the 
> rest
> of the  story on the paper's website.
>
> One thing that sticks out in the second  story, was that it was reported 
> that
> Honorable Judge Jerry M. Daniel told the  guys to each pay their $2,000 
> fine
> then told them "to get out of dodge.?   Now, if he actually said that, 
> isn't
> that a bit strange?  I mean, after  child molesters pay their debt to 
> society,
> even they still get to move back into  their old communities.  Does a 
> judge
> actually have authority to ban people  from an entire county from the 
> bench?
>
> Does this imply that  meteorite hunters are worse than child molesters?
>
> It was mentioned that  there often is a "good ole boys" network that
> supercedes the rule of law in many  places.  I would never imply that this 
> might be
> the case here, but it makes  one wonder.
>
> Of course, I can understand someone not wanting people on  their property.
> And that is why it is always good to get permission to  hunt, and if that
> permission is in writing, all the better.
>
> I  had an "Aha" experience when I was driving with a fellow meteorite 
> hunter
> at  West a couple of weeks ago as we drove up on a land owner and I 
> stopped,
> got out  and introduced myself, and asked for permission to hunt on his 
> ground.
> The  man said quite plainly "No."  So I asked him "Why not?"  And he could
> not (or would not) give me a reason.  We talked a little more, when I 
> asked
> him if he was planning to look himself, and he said he was too busy to do 
> it
> himself.  Again, I asked him why I couldn't look.
>
> He did not say "I  don't want you spooking my cattle."  Or "I don't want 
> the
> liability if you  get hurt."  Or "I don't want you making money off of
> something that I would  just as soon let rust away."
>
> He didn't offer a good reason or even  a bad reason for that matter.
>
> When it was obvious I wasn't going to get  permission, I excused myself 
> and
> went back to the car to go find another land  owner down the road to ask. 
> When
> I got in the car, my friend asked me:  "You know why he doesn't want to 
> let
> you hunt don't you?"  I said "No,  why?"  He stated matter of factly: "He
> didn't want you to find his  Marijuana Patch."
>
> Aha!!!
>
> Of course I don't know if that was the  real case, but if it was, it made 
> a
> lot of sense, and it would explain why he  couldn't give me a logical 
> reason on
> why he didn't want me on his ground.   If he had a $500,000 cash crop 
> growing
> out there, only bad could come out of  someone wondering around his land.
>
> I am not saying that Sonny and Mike  almost stumbled onto a secret garden 
> in
> Georgia, or that the judge and other law  enforcement personnel might have
> been partners in some "Southern Mafia" where  they would want ALL 
> meteorite
> hunters to stay out of the ENTIRE county and away  from their retirement 
> fund.
>
> I am just saying something seems a little  fishy with this story.  I am 
> sure
> we will never know the full  story.
>
> Steve Arnold
> Arkansas (some day soon I hope I can drop the  "Arkansas" tag for good)
>
>
> **************New Low Prices on Dell Laptops ? Starting at $399
> (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220433304x1201394525/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubl
> eclick.net%2Fclk%3B213540718%3B35046385%3Be)
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de  Thu Apr  2 17:40:58 2009
From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de)
Date: 02 Apr 2009 21:40:58 UT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Re-2: How about a thread to discuss hunting ethics
Message-ID: <DIIE.0000004100003AA0@paulinet.de>

> I can not tell you guys how nice it was to walk
> into my house and put my arms around my family.

Beautiful words! Thank you for sharing !!!

Best,

Bernd



From jwal2000 at swbell.net  Thu Apr  2 18:03:52 2009
From: jwal2000 at swbell.net (Jerry A. Wallace)
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 17:03:52 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] How about a thread to discuss hunting ethics
In-Reply-To: <144135.42107.qm@web55205.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
References: <144135.42107.qm@web55205.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <49D53648.5010408@swbell.net>


Hi Rob,

Rob McCafferty wrote:
> In the UK we say "STAY ORF MY LAAAND!", usually with a farmers shotgun in hand.
>   
Hmmmm. Did the British government miss taking away one of the farmer's 
shotguns?
I'll bet they would like to know where it is.

I suppose we could always resort to the old S&D method of meteorite 
hunting...
search and duck----search and duck----search and duck. Gotta be fast.

Best regards,

Jerry

From cynapse at charter.net  Thu Apr  2 19:12:25 2009
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 18:12:25 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] -2 arrested update (Dude-- Where's My
	Caredition)
In-Reply-To: <A2B1124F65574B2D8204FF0E24119927@your291etg47cr>
References: <c0d.4e07afe8.3706862e@aol.com>
	<A2B1124F65574B2D8204FF0E24119927@your291etg47cr>
Message-ID: <0ghat4558o0emragv94eqcs5vi6v6du2o6@4ax.com>

On Thu, 2 Apr 2009 17:47:34 -0400, you wrote:

>Read the article again.  A 66 year old lady confronted two burglers on her 
>property last October. Given that, Sonny and Mike are lucky they only had to 
>pay a $2K fine.  They might have been  shot.  I like and respect Sonny and 
>Mike, but if they didn't ask permission in the first place, they had no 
>business on the pproperty and they only have themselves to blame for the 
>outcome.

As I just said to someone off-list:

I live in Anderson County, South Carolina (a few counties away from Burke,
Georgia, as you can see on a map.)  I also live down a private, unmarked,
ungated dirt road.  And in my experience, strangers coming on to your property
almost always are trying to sell you something that you don't want, or take away
something that you do.

From element33 at peconic.net  Thu Apr  2 18:16:57 2009
From: element33 at peconic.net (Michael Bross)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 00:16:57 +0200
Subject: [meteorite-list] How about a thread to discuss hunting ethics
References: <76EA8251-D894-4F5B-B161-CA05314C9266@montrose.net>
	<468bf6050904021200n13b4346ar72ce2798096f447a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <07cc01c9b3e0$bd0bc080$58768a5c@Inspiron8200>

Hi List, Mike  Miller and Sonny

Honestly, I was waiting for more info before reacting.
Already the "Criminal" part of trespassing had the exaggerated part which 
made me wait...
I am not a meteorite hunter, maybe one day when time allows :)

I trust what you say here Mike.
It is that implacable: "everybody should know the law". Even when it goes 
out of Common Sense

A soft story: as I said, I lived in Long Island, NY for many years.
We went with our 6 months old daughter to a nearby small quaint town (10 
miles)
that we were used to go to, and parked our car backwards to the sidewalk
to avoid the baby seat of our daughter to be to hot under direct sunlight 
when we
come back.
We got a double ticket: one for having parked backwards !, instead of facing 
the sidewalk
and another for having the tire touching the sidewalk... ! $ 100 !
We disputed the parking tickets and went to court, arguing that it was 
unexpectable for us
to know such "idiotic" (no we didn't say that in court :)) laws and got told 
to accept, pay,
and continue with our lives...

So, dear "hunters"... before you go anywhere, try to get in touch with local 
authorities
and figure out main laws pertaining to roads, privacy etc...
or maybe check on internet.
I know that in France, most local laws are being posted for such aspects.

Cheers
Michael B, France




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mike Miller" <meteoritefinder at gmail.com>
To: "Michael Murray" <mmurray at montrose.net>
Cc: <Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 9:00 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] How about a thread to discuss hunting ethics


Hello everyone I am not going to get involved in a long discussion
here, I just want to state for the record what happened to me. I was
charged with walking down an UN posted dirt road. I was charged with 2
counts as I parked my rental vehicle in plain sight on a highway and
did walk down this UN posted dirt road on 2 different days.  In
Georgia they call it Criminal Trespass and it covers a very wide range
of offenses. I was not hunting meteorites on the property I was simply
trying to reach the area I thought might contain meteorites. I did not
know the road was private and there were no signs that stated it was
private. I was informed that in Georgia it is not necessary to post a
road as private. I also realize that if I were raised in Georgia I
would have likely known the road was private, but since I spend most
of my time in the wide open west. I felt I was safe to walk down this
dirt road and try to get to the area I was hoping had meteorite in it,
that was still miles past the area of this dirt road.
 I was asked by the Judge of Burke county to inform every meteorite
hunter that you are not welcome in Burke county and I can personally
guarantee you that they are not kidding. Do not go to Burke county and
knock on doors as you will be very sorry you came.

On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 10:01 AM, Michael Murray <mmurray at montrose.net> 
wrote:
> In a constructive thread, I'd like to hear more about how the hunters out
> there discuss hunting private property with landowners, how they determine
> who owns the property, do you pay a fee normally, do you do a formal 
> written
> agreement on split of find. Could be that if some of the more seasoned 
> List
> participants/hunters visit this topic in a somewhat detailed manner that
> other hunters might better arm themselves with the knowledge it takes to 
> do
> it right.
>
> Mike in CO
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>



-- 
Mike Miller 230 Greenway Dr. Kingman Az 86401
www.meteoritefinder.com
     928-753-6825
______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list




From element33 at peconic.net  Thu Apr  2 18:24:29 2009
From: element33 at peconic.net (Michael Bross)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 00:24:29 +0200
Subject: [meteorite-list] -2 arrested update (Dude-- Where's
	MyCaredition)
References: <c0d.4e07afe8.3706862e@aol.com><A2B1124F65574B2D8204FF0E24119927@your291etg47cr>
	<0ghat4558o0emragv94eqcs5vi6v6du2o6@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <07d701c9b3e1$ca462d20$58768a5c@Inspiron8200>

why don't you put a sign "private road, trespassers will be 
fined/prosecuted"
like in NY and many other states ?
I go often off road all around the world, I would have never imagined
that a private road wouldn't be marked... and have quite some experience
going off roads, or off the beaten paths.

I guess some parts in Southern USA are a real other world...
Glad I joined the Met-List... I know now ! and will avoid troubles out of 
"common sense" !

Michael B, France



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Darren Garrison" <cynapse at charter.net>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 1:12 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] -2 arrested update (Dude-- Where's 
MyCaredition)


> On Thu, 2 Apr 2009 17:47:34 -0400, you wrote:
>
>>Read the article again.  A 66 year old lady confronted two burglers on her
>>property last October. Given that, Sonny and Mike are lucky they only had 
>>to
>>pay a $2K fine.  They might have been  shot.  I like and respect Sonny and
>>Mike, but if they didn't ask permission in the first place, they had no
>>business on the pproperty and they only have themselves to blame for the
>>outcome.
>
> As I just said to someone off-list:
>
> I live in Anderson County, South Carolina (a few counties away from Burke,
> Georgia, as you can see on a map.)  I also live down a private, unmarked,
> ungated dirt road.  And in my experience, strangers coming on to your 
> property
> almost always are trying to sell you something that you don't want, or 
> take away
> something that you do.
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 




From cynapse at charter.net  Thu Apr  2 19:28:51 2009
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 18:28:51 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] -2 arrested update (Dude-- Where's
	MyCaredition)
In-Reply-To: <07d701c9b3e1$ca462d20$58768a5c@Inspiron8200>
References: <c0d.4e07afe8.3706862e@aol.com><A2B1124F65574B2D8204FF0E24119927@your291etg47cr>
	<0ghat4558o0emragv94eqcs5vi6v6du2o6@4ax.com>
	<07d701c9b3e1$ca462d20$58768a5c@Inspiron8200>
Message-ID: <17iat4924imc6fbop54q1pul1f975tvl38@4ax.com>

On Fri, 3 Apr 2009 00:24:29 +0200, you wrote:

>why don't you put a sign "private road, trespassers will be 
>fined/prosecuted"

I would guess because it is pretty much taken for granted (here, at least) that
a road that isn't paved and doesn't have signs is a private driveway leading to
a home or a business.

From waltbranch at birch.net  Thu Apr  2 18:33:23 2009
From: waltbranch at birch.net (Walter Branch)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 18:33:23 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] How about a thread to discuss hunting ethics
References: <76EA8251-D894-4F5B-B161-CA05314C9266@montrose.net>
	<468bf6050904021200n13b4346ar72ce2798096f447a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <19B61F3057C54F4591612B0509C474C8@walterdesktop>

Hello Everyone,

Burke county is an interesting place.  It's about an hour-and-a-half from 
where I live.  Sort of contradictory.  I have been traveling through there 
for 25 years or so.  I know it fairly well.  The people there keep to 
themselves.  Pretty conservative.  Nice folks until you cross someone, then 
you are in world of trouble with everyone.  Everyone knows everyone or is 
related in some way.

The largest town is Waynesboro.  There is a a sign on the town water tower 
which proclaims the town the "bird dog capital of the world."   That alone 
shoudl tell you something.

Below the water toweer, on the ground is another sign that reads "bird 
sanctuary."  Contradictory, eh?

With regard to some rural areas here in Georgia, the phrase, "where angels 
fear to tread" comes to mind.

-Walter Branch
-----------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mike Miller" <meteoritefinder at gmail.com>
To: "Michael Murray" <mmurray at montrose.net>
Cc: <Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 3:00 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] How about a thread to discuss hunting ethics


Hello everyone I am not going to get involved in a long discussion
here, I just want to state for the record what happened to me. I was
charged with walking down an UN posted dirt road. I was charged with 2
counts as I parked my rental vehicle in plain sight on a highway and
did walk down this UN posted dirt road on 2 different days.  In
Georgia they call it Criminal Trespass and it covers a very wide range
of offenses. I was not hunting meteorites on the property I was simply
trying to reach the area I thought might contain meteorites. I did not
know the road was private and there were no signs that stated it was
private. I was informed that in Georgia it is not necessary to post a
road as private. I also realize that if I were raised in Georgia I
would have likely known the road was private, but since I spend most
of my time in the wide open west. I felt I was safe to walk down this
dirt road and try to get to the area I was hoping had meteorite in it,
that was still miles past the area of this dirt road.
 I was asked by the Judge of Burke county to inform every meteorite
hunter that you are not welcome in Burke county and I can personally
guarantee you that they are not kidding. Do not go to Burke county and
knock on doors as you will be very sorry you came.

On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 10:01 AM, Michael Murray <mmurray at montrose.net> 
wrote:
> In a constructive thread, I'd like to hear more about how the hunters out
> there discuss hunting private property with landowners, how they determine
> who owns the property, do you pay a fee normally, do you do a formal 
> written
> agreement on split of find. Could be that if some of the more seasoned 
> List
> participants/hunters visit this topic in a somewhat detailed manner that
> other hunters might better arm themselves with the knowledge it takes to 
> do
> it right.
>
> Mike in CO
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>



-- 
Mike Miller 230 Greenway Dr. Kingman Az 86401
www.meteoritefinder.com
     928-753-6825
______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



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06:06:00


From waltbranch at birch.net  Thu Apr  2 18:33:46 2009
From: waltbranch at birch.net (Walter Branch)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 18:33:46 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Re-2: Wire Fraud and Steve
	ArnoldofChicago...wasnwa 1794
References: <DIIE.0000008100003A96@paulinet.de>
Message-ID: <C7BA90AD43FE45E0AEA3BF0CD9D51CA7@walterdesktop>

>Jason, for heaven's sake. Please stop such silly talk. I've always 
>considered

Agreed.  Sheesh, Jason, give it a rest.

-Walter Branch

-----------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <bernd.pauli at paulinet.de>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 2:51 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Re-2: Wire Fraud and Steve 
ArnoldofChicago...wasnwa 1794


>> He's not the person who turns people away from the hobby;
>> it's mean-spirited people like you who make others feel unwelcome.
>> His posts have never been derogatory. Ill-conceived, maybe. Lacking
>> foresight, probably in many cases. But malevolent, like yours, never.
>
> Jason, for heaven's sake. Please stop such silly talk. I've always 
> considered
> you an intelligent person who knows what he is talking about but this goes
> way too far!!!
>
> Best from Germany,
>
> Bernd
>
>
> To: meteoritekid at gmail.com
>    meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.35/2034 - Release Date: 04/01/09 
06:06:00


From MeteorHntr at aol.com  Thu Apr  2 19:05:15 2009
From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 19:05:15 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] -2 arrested update (Dude-- Where's My
	Caredition)
Message-ID: <c18.51b0efca.37069eab@aol.com>

Dave (and list),
 
I will address the things point by point:
 
In a message dated 4/2/2009 4:47:22 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
carothersdl at gmail.com writes:

Read the article again.  A 66 year old lady confronted two  burglers on her 
property last October. Given that, Sonny and Mike are lucky  they only had to 
pay a $2K fine.  They might have been   shot.  I like and respect Sonny and 
Mike, but if they didn't ask  permission in the first place, they had no 
business on the pproperty and  they only have themselves to blame for the 
outcome.

**********
Dave,

Were they actually burglars, or were they just  knocking on her door asking 
to use the phone for their broken down car?  

I am sure they were probably burglars.  But my point is, just  because a 
newspaper says something, doesn't make it so.   Almost EVERY  meteorite story ever 
published has minor if not major flaws in them.  And  these are not typically 
stories where a reporter's bias could be blamed for the  bad journalism.  
Almost ALL journalism is shotty today.  I just don't  believe anything in print, 
just because it is in print.  

Maybe  Sonny and Mike are lucky to only have to pay $2,000.  Maybe they were  
unlucky to have to pay $2,000.  Yes, they might have been shot.  I  like and 
respect Sonny and Mike too.  I agree, without asking permission,  they did not 
belong there.  

*******************
Dave, you said:

Regarding the Judge and his "Get out of Dodge" statement.  That's  not 
uncommon.  If you've ever seen some of the videos of cops in  action, you'll 
see that they tell suspicious people to get out of  neighborhoods all the 
time.
 
********
Thanks for the correction Dave.  I think I have only seen  the phrase "Get 
the hell out of Dodge" in old western movies, usually relating  to Dodge City, 
Kansas.  But arrogant law men are slightly different than  judges sitting on a 
bench with a stenographer recording every statement.   Besides, is Hollywood's 
perspective always the way it really happens in  life?

Of course, IF Mike and Sonny had already made a plea agreement, or  simply 
plead guilty (whether they really were guilty or not) throwing themselves  at 
the mercy of the court, the judge I presume could puff up his chest and say  
about anything he wanted.  
 
And, I don't mean to imply that if either of them were arrested again, and  
brought before the same judge, that he would not be more strict the second time 
 around.  I don't doubt he would throw the book at them.

My preface  was that this story seemed a bit fishy to me, that is all.   

Do judges in Georgia run for public election?  "Re-elect Judge  Daniel, he's 
tough on space crime!" might be a good campaign  slogan.

***************

With regards to a land owner failing to  give you a reason why you couldn't 
search his property... what makes you  think he has an obligation to do so? 
It is enough that he owns the land and  has said "No".  With all due respect 
to you, persuing it further with  the man is pretty arrogant

Regards,

Dave

*********************
Dave, with all due respect to you, I like to  engage people in conversations. 
 Me doing so with that man had nothing to  do with me being arrogant.  If 
someone has an objection, in sales one  learns to flush out those objections.  If 
you don't know  the objections, then how do you overcome them?  Often  times, 
people have very valid objections.  Other times, they  don't.

Unless a person comes out with their excuse, or if one asks, it is  hard to 
find out why they object.  Granted, people lie.  Sometimes  they will say they 
don't want you to hunt because 23 years ago, a fisherman left  a gate open and 
some cows got out.  But usually that isn't a valid reason  for never letting 
anyone ever come on their land again.

Yes, of  course, with private property, people don't have to have a reason.  
But  usually they do have a reason.  Unless it is brought out, it is often 
hard  to rationally talk with someone about a solution.  

In West, I was  hunting with a group when we got permission to hunt on a guys 
land for a couple  of days.  At the end of the couple of days I asked if we 
could keep  hunting.  The man said "No, I told you that you could hunt for 2 
days, and  it has been two days."  His response seemed strange, so I engaged him 
as to  why?  A little later he expressed that his wife was nervous with 
strangers  on the property, and that she had gotten their pistol out and was 
keeping it on  the table to help with her nerves. 

Bingo.  The real reason.   Not that he wanted to be a jerk and kick us off 
after only 2 days, but he had a  real reason.  And a valid one I might point 
out.  I understood his  situation.  I told him that I wish we could hunt more, 
but that I  appreciated what time he gave us.   And I left.  No arrogance on  my 
part at all.  Maybe I could have tried to find a way to reassure him and  his 
wife, but I didn't feel like it was probably going to be productive.   Maybe 
later things would change, and I could go back and regain permission  later.  
I chose to humbly walk away glad I got to hunt at least a little  bit.

On the other hand, probably a full half of the land I got to hunt in  West 
was on land where the land owner first said no me, or they would have said  no 
if I had point blank asked them.  But after some dialog, they start to  get to 
know me, and I get to know them.  They usually have a genuine  concern, albeit 
sometimes founded on erroneous information.   I  explain how I will close the 
gates, or won't sue them if I get hurt, or just  that it would be a shame 
that the meteorites will be lost when their holes  fill up with mud after the 
next rain, etc.  When people find out I am nice  guy, not what they might have 
preconceived I would be like, they often change  their minds.  

In sales, it is said "When a prospect says 'NO' they  are often just saying 
'I don't KNOW enough to say yes... yet.'"  If  every car salesmen in the world 
took buyers at their word when they say "Just  looking" very few cars would 
get sold.  Is it arrogance that a car salesman  would think that a person on the 
dealer's lot might have some questions, some  objections to buying?  

Sure, some car salesmen are arrogant.   But just because a salesman engages a 
customer and flushes out their true  concerns, doesn't mean it is a bad 
thing.  In fact, arrogance and humility  aside, being able to overcome those 
objections is vital in the sales process.  

I know for a fact, that I got permission to hunt in West, and in other  
places as well, where other hunters failed, sometimes just days or hours before  I 
showed up.  You might call that arrogance, but I would beg to  differ.  I call 
it persistence.  And in the end, more times than not,  I have made a new 
friend, and the land owner feels good about letting me on to  hunt.   

I will even go a step further.  I think people do  the meteorite hunting 
community a disservice if they walk away from an initial  rejection without 
challenging, at least in a nice way, the misconceptions that  led to the denial of 
permission to hunt.   If the decisions are made  with faulty information, and 
those are not challenged, then people go on, often  propagating those feelings 
to others. 

And, I will clarify, that my "Aha  experience" happened in private, away from 
landowner.  Neither did me or my  friend accuse him of growing pot to his 
face.  But I guarantee that that  land owner knew when I left that I genuinely 
tried to understand WHY he was  taking his stance, even if he didn't want to 
share the real reasons for saying  no.

Does he have an obligation to tell me why he said no?  Of course  not.  And 
did I even imply that he was obligated to?  But if you  don't ask, often you 
don't get an answer.  

Dave, I make a  living by engaging land owners and obtaining permission to 
hunt on their  ground.  It is probably safe to say that I have more signed 
"Meteorite  Leases" on file from different land owners than any other meteorite 
hunter in  the world.   One thing that makes people more nervous than giving  
people permission to hunt on their land is to have to read, interpret and sign a  
legally binding contract.  

Talk about raising objections!   

But I have made talking to the land owners, flushing out the real  objections 
and then overcoming their objections a high priority in my  business.  And 
that is why far more times than not, they end up signing the  contracts with me.

Arrogance has nothing to do with it.

But thank  you for your perspective.  Without you expressing your true 
feelings, I  would have never had the opportunity to explain this better, for you 
and the  list, and hopefully clear up any misunderstandings.

See?   Conversations can be good.

Steve Arnold
Arkansas




**************New Low Prices on Dell Laptops ? Starting at $399 
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220433304x1201394525/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubl
eclick.net%2Fclk%3B213540718%3B35046385%3Be)

From mmurray at montrose.net  Thu Apr  2 19:07:21 2009
From: mmurray at montrose.net (Michael Murray)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 17:07:21 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] -2 arrested update (Dude-- Where's My Car
	edition)
In-Reply-To: <c0d.4e07afe8.3706862e@aol.com>
References: <c0d.4e07afe8.3706862e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <BD00DB3C-B6E7-4D12-9F44-A95A2F588FC0@montrose.net>

Not saying anything against this farmer in particular but that's a  
real possibility anywhere... to run onto a clandestine lab or weed  
patch.  Or, even a shroom growing operation.  Not entirely impossible,  
especially here in Colorado.  The people involved in these types of  
activities might react to your presence in any number of goofy ways.   
I'd rather take my chances with a rattlesnake.
Mike in CO


On Apr 2, 2009, at 3:20 PM, MeteorHntr at aol.com wrote:

> List,
>
> I haven't talked with either Sonny  or Mike yet, but some of this  
> story
> smells a little fishy.
>
> Not  that you can believe anything you see or read in the media, as  
> stories
> seldom  get confirmation before deadlines have to be reached, and  
> stories tend
> to get  sensationalized for sales and ratings purposes.  After all,  
> the first
> story  just gave the teaser info and for only $28 more you can read  
> the rest
> of the  story on the paper's website.
>
> One thing that sticks out in the second  story, was that it was  
> reported that
> Honorable Judge Jerry M. Daniel told the  guys to each pay their  
> $2,000 fine
> then told them "to get out of dodge.?   Now, if he actually said  
> that, isn't
> that a bit strange?  I mean, after  child molesters pay their debt  
> to society,
> even they still get to move back into  their old communities.  Does  
> a judge
> actually have authority to ban people  from an entire county from  
> the bench?
>
> Does this imply that  meteorite hunters are worse than child  
> molesters?
>
> It was mentioned that  there often is a "good ole boys" network that
> supercedes the rule of law in many  places.  I would never imply  
> that this might be
> the case here, but it makes  one wonder.
>
> Of course, I can understand someone not wanting people on  their  
> property.
> And that is why it is always good to get permission to  hunt, and if  
> that
> permission is in writing, all the better.
>
> I  had an "Aha" experience when I was driving with a fellow  
> meteorite hunter
> at  West a couple of weeks ago as we drove up on a land owner and I  
> stopped,
> got out  and introduced myself, and asked for permission to hunt on  
> his ground.
> The  man said quite plainly "No."  So I asked him "Why not?"  And he  
> could
> not (or would not) give me a reason.  We talked a little more, when  
> I asked
> him if he was planning to look himself, and he said he was too busy  
> to do it
> himself.  Again, I asked him why I couldn't look.
>
> He did not say "I  don't want you spooking my cattle."  Or "I don't  
> want the
> liability if you  get hurt."  Or "I don't want you making money off of
> something that I would  just as soon let rust away."
>
> He didn't offer a good reason or even  a bad reason for that matter.
>
> When it was obvious I wasn't going to get  permission, I excused  
> myself and
> went back to the car to go find another land  owner down the road to  
> ask.  When
> I got in the car, my friend asked me:  "You know why he doesn't want  
> to let
> you hunt don't you?"  I said "No,  why?"  He stated matter of  
> factly: "He
> didn't want you to find his  Marijuana Patch."
>
> Aha!!!
>
> Of course I don't know if that was the  real case, but if it was, it  
> made a
> lot of sense, and it would explain why he  couldn't give me a  
> logical reason on
> why he didn't want me on his ground.   If he had a $500,000 cash  
> crop growing
> out there, only bad could come out of  someone wondering around his  
> land.
>
> I am not saying that Sonny and Mike  almost stumbled onto a secret  
> garden in
> Georgia, or that the judge and other law  enforcement personnel  
> might have
> been partners in some "Southern Mafia" where  they would want ALL  
> meteorite
> hunters to stay out of the ENTIRE county and away  from their  
> retirement fund.
>
> I am just saying something seems a little  fishy with this story.  I  
> am sure
> we will never know the full  story.
>
> Steve Arnold
> Arkansas (some day soon I hope I can drop the  "Arkansas" tag for  
> good)
>
>
> **************New Low Prices on Dell Laptops ? Starting at $399
> (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220433304x1201394525/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubl
> eclick.net%2Fclk%3B213540718%3B35046385%3Be)
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


From meteoritekid at gmail.com  Thu Apr  2 19:07:30 2009
From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 16:07:30 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] How about a thread to discuss hunting ethics -
	west
Message-ID: <93aaac890904021607i639362b7i8c5ea800973c43b9@mail.gmail.com>

Hola Adam, All,
But that was the problem with West.
The atmosphere was positively toxic when we went because farmers and
landowners who had been paid $1/g for their stones saw them going on
ebay a few days later for $100/g.  There was a great deal of land that
hadn't been searched and hadn't been ploughed.   And, thanks to the
antics of whoever decided to tell them that $1/g was fair for their
meteorites, that land will likely never be hunted, the meteorites lost
for good.
We spoke to several landowners, and always got the same response -
well, words ranged from "No thanks," to "Hell no," to "Not
interested," but the net result was the same.  We needed only to
mention the fact that we were looking for meteorites (and many of them
guessed it before we even stated our business), and it was an
immediate cold shoulder.  We offered more, we tried to convince them -
they probably wouldn't have taken $1000/g for anything we found, not
that we offered as much.  They simply weren't interested in hearing
us out.
Which makes me wonder about the morality of dealers who would
criticize one of their own for offering $10 or $20/g for a large stone
from such a fall.  When their profit margin is extremely high (after
calculating the cost of our trip, we paid $12/g for the West stones
that we found on public land - compare to the clinically insane
selling prices of $50-100/g), do they really have a right to question
what someone's offer of $10 or $20,000 for 1kg will do to the chance
of more being found?
Maybe if they themselves were willing to pay a reasonable price for
them....but they really can't blame someone willing to offer a
meteorite's worth.  If they were willing to pay it, it wouldn't
be/have been an issue.
Jason

On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 12:00 PM, Mike Miller <meteoritefinder at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello everyone I am not going to get involved in a long discussion
> here, I just want to state for the record what happened to me. I was
> charged with walking down an UN posted dirt road. I was charged with 2
> counts as I parked my rental vehicle in plain sight on a highway and
> did walk down this UN posted dirt road on 2 different days. ?In
> Georgia they call it Criminal Trespass and it covers a very wide range
> of offenses. I was not hunting meteorites on the property I was simply
> trying to reach the area I thought might contain meteorites. I did not
> know the road was private and there were no signs that stated it was
> private. I was informed that in Georgia it is not necessary to post a
> road as private. I also realize that if I were raised in Georgia I
> would have likely known the road was private, but since I spend most
> of my time in the wide open west. I felt I was safe to walk down this
> dirt road and try to get to the area I was hoping had meteorite in it,
> that was still miles past the area of this dirt road.
> ?I was asked by the Judge of Burke county to inform every meteorite
> hunter that you are not welcome in Burke county and I can personally
> guarantee you that they are not kidding. Do not go to Burke county and
> knock on doors as you will be very sorry you came.
>
> On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 10:01 AM, Michael Murray <mmurray at montrose.net> wrote:
>> In a constructive thread, I'd like to hear more about how the hunters out
>> there discuss hunting private property with landowners, how they determine
>> who owns the property, do you pay a fee normally, do you do a formal written
>> agreement on split of find. ?Could be that if some of the more seasoned List
>> participants/hunters visit this topic in a somewhat detailed manner that
>> other hunters might better arm themselves with the knowledge it takes to do
>> it right.
>>
>> Mike in CO
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Mike Miller 230 Greenway Dr. Kingman Az 86401
> www.meteoritefinder.com
> ? ? 928-753-6825
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>

From cdtucson at cox.net  Thu Apr  2 19:15:49 2009
From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 16:15:49 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] PTS ID Help please
Message-ID: <20090402191549.E160G.433316.imail@fed1rmwml31>

List, 
I have a poor quality photo of a polished thin section that I am tying to identify what the mineral is. One told me it is shocked (mosaic) Olivine? 
Would one of you kind folks please help. see at link below.
Thank you.
Carl Esparza
IMCA 5829
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2ikede8&s=5

From cynapse at charter.net  Thu Apr  2 20:31:55 2009
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 19:31:55 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] -2 arrested update (Dude-- Where's My
	Caredition)
In-Reply-To: <c18.51b0efca.37069eab@aol.com>
References: <c18.51b0efca.37069eab@aol.com>
Message-ID: <m6mat4d254m9qoethcs49cm6s9rml355rf@4ax.com>

Okay, maybe they DID walk onto the set of Dukes of Hazzard:

http://webpages.charter.net/garrison6328/tmp/burke.jpg

From ks1u at att.net  Thu Apr  2 19:34:48 2009
From: ks1u at att.net (George Blahun Jr)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 19:34:48 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] How about a thread to discuss hunting ethics -
	west
In-Reply-To: <93aaac890904021607i639362b7i8c5ea800973c43b9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <93aaac890904021607i639362b7i8c5ea800973c43b9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <78EE200C-0185-4E66-AC89-4070AA0267B4@att.net>

Jason et. al.
      Did anyone offer to act as a broker?  Rather than paying  
outright, have a contract stating the total number of grams retrieved  
and a percentage for selling them.  I know most hunters would rather  
own what they sell, but it beats leaving specimens to weather in the  
field.

George

From meteoritekid at gmail.com  Thu Apr  2 19:51:53 2009
From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 16:51:53 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] How about a thread to discuss hunting ethics -
	west
In-Reply-To: <78EE200C-0185-4E66-AC89-4070AA0267B4@att.net>
References: <93aaac890904021607i639362b7i8c5ea800973c43b9@mail.gmail.com>
	<78EE200C-0185-4E66-AC89-4070AA0267B4@att.net>
Message-ID: <93aaac890904021651m25a1ff72k273d757fbfff8611@mail.gmail.com>

George, All,
I agree - it sounds good (something *is* better than nothing), but the
trouble is that we simply ran into a brick wall with many of them.
We'd call and they'd just say 'not interested' and hang up.  Or tell
us that it was private property and to shove off.
Admittedly, we only had the local police called on us once - but that
was for looking for meteorites on public grassy land outside of a
fenced-off public water-storage facility.  Apparently they thought we
were going to poison the wells, or some such thing...
The simple unwillingness of the locals to even talk to us was
something I've never seen before.
The flier we left in a local convenience store was even removed
shortly after we put it up...it was simply open hostility.
Jason

On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 4:34 PM, George Blahun Jr <ks1u at att.net> wrote:
> Jason et. al.
> ? ? Did anyone offer to act as a broker? ?Rather than paying outright, have
> a contract stating the total number of grams retrieved and a percentage for
> selling them. ?I know most hunters would rather own what they sell, but it
> beats leaving specimens to weather in the field.
>
> George
>

From element33 at peconic.net  Thu Apr  2 19:57:17 2009
From: element33 at peconic.net (Michael Bross)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 01:57:17 +0200
Subject: [meteorite-list] -2 arrested update (Dude-- Where's
	MyCaredition)
References: <c0d.4e07afe8.3706862e@aol.com><A2B1124F65574B2D8204FF0E24119927@your291etg47cr>
	<0ghat4558o0emragv94eqcs5vi6v6du2o6@4ax.com>
	<07d701c9b3e1$ca462d20$58768a5c@Inspiron8200>
	<17iat4924imc6fbop54q1pul1f975tvl38@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <081101c9b3ee$c5615b10$58768a5c@Inspiron8200>

ok Darren, I have to minor my previous post

In NY state, when I see a mailbox in front of an unpaved road
I know that it is (at least partially) private and won't go, even if no 
sign.

USA being a rather "new" country, most of the roads go to a private 
property, I have to admit,
not like in France, and many other countries, where unpaved roads are common 
and rarely
private, unless advertised otherwise.
They are very ancient paths going thru fields, landscape, from one village 
to the other,
reminiscent of old middle age roads, and most of the time unpaved.

I feel that Mike Miller and Sonny never seriously thought they were on 
"private" property

Good evening everyone
Michael B, France


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Darren Garrison" <cynapse at charter.net>
To: <element33 at peconic.net>
Cc: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 1:28 AM
Subject: Re: Re: [meteorite-list] -2 arrested update (Dude-- Where's 
MyCaredition)


On Fri, 3 Apr 2009 00:24:29 +0200, you wrote:

>why don't you put a sign "private road, trespassers will be
>fined/prosecuted"

I would guess because it is pretty much taken for granted (here, at least) 
that
a road that isn't paved and doesn't have signs is a private driveway leading 
to
a home or a business.




From MeteorHntr at aol.com  Thu Apr  2 20:00:18 2009
From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 20:00:18 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] How about a thread to discuss hunting ethics -
	west
Message-ID: <c86.4be4f9ad.3706ab92@aol.com>

Hello George,

I have done something  similar in the past at places like what we did at 
Brenham.  But with so  much land to cover at West, and so little time to cover it, 
for me it was just  easier to hunt where one was wanted.  I had ground where 
land owners were  happy to let us hunt with no return to them, so it was fine 
to spend most of the  time with that ground. 

To pay to hunt, or to pay a "royalty" to a land  owner on anything found, 
might be okay if there were not other options and other  places to go that cost 
nothing.  

Racing the crops going in, other  hunters, the coming rains, the growing 
grass, the emerging rattlesnakes, it was  just easier to go where it was easier 
and cheaper since it all couldn't be  hunted by one person anyway. 

Of course, for someone that wants to try to  do that now, they have to cut 
through all the preconceived ideas the landowners  have built, just so they will 
be open enough to hear such a sales pitch.  I  would think if someone is in 
the area now, it would be a valid option to try,  especially if it is for 
unhunted ground, not in crops, not in tall growing  grass, in part of the 
strewnfield where the meteorites would not have buried  themselves too deep into the 
ground, where their holes would be filled in with  mud by now.

Steve Arnold
Arkansas



In a message dated  4/2/2009 6:35:16 P.M. Central Daylight Time, ks1u at att.net 
writes:
Jason et.  al.
Did anyone offer to act as a broker?   Rather than paying  
outright, have a contract stating the total number  of grams retrieved  
and a percentage for selling them.  I know  most hunters would rather  
own what they sell, but it beats leaving  specimens to weather in the  
field.

George  

**************New Low Prices on Dell Laptops ? Starting at $399 
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220433304x1201394525/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubl
eclick.net%2Fclk%3B213540718%3B35046385%3Be)

From mfcollecter at yahoo.com  Thu Apr  2 20:00:58 2009
From: mfcollecter at yahoo.com (Said Haddany)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 17:00:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] test
Message-ID: <317675.71634.qm@web34301.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


test , delet please
? Said Haddany


      

From element33 at peconic.net  Thu Apr  2 20:03:16 2009
From: element33 at peconic.net (Michael Bross)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 02:03:16 +0200
Subject: [meteorite-list] How about a thread to discuss hunting ethics
	-west
References: <93aaac890904021607i639362b7i8c5ea800973c43b9@mail.gmail.com>
	<78EE200C-0185-4E66-AC89-4070AA0267B4@att.net>
Message-ID: <081e01c9b3ef$97469230$58768a5c@Inspiron8200>

Hi all

or maybe doing like French law, where the Finder shares with the Owner
of the property/land  50%-50% the price of the Find ?

Just a suggestion. Might be silly ?!

Michael B, France



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "George Blahun Jr" <ks1u at att.net>
To: "Jason Utas" <meteoritekid at gmail.com>
Cc: "Meteorite-list" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 1:34 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] How about a thread to discuss hunting 
ethics -west


> Jason et. al.
>      Did anyone offer to act as a broker?  Rather than paying  outright, 
> have a contract stating the total number of grams retrieved  and a 
> percentage for selling them.  I know most hunters would rather  own what 
> they sell, but it beats leaving specimens to weather in the  field.
>
> George
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 




From mfcollecter at yahoo.com  Thu Apr  2 20:04:27 2009
From: mfcollecter at yahoo.com (Said Haddany)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 17:04:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] test
Message-ID: <833400.5679.qm@web34303.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


test ,delet please
? Said Haddany


      

From MeteorHntr at aol.com  Thu Apr  2 20:13:35 2009
From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 20:13:35 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] How about a thread to discuss hunting ethics -
	west
Message-ID: <d06.5051fe79.3706aeaf@aol.com>

Jason,

Remind us all what weights you found and how much the trip  cost you and your 
dad, and the cost of the time your dad had to invest in lost  Medical Doctor 
wages to find what you guys found?  OK, leave out of the  formula what your 
dad's time is worth, that is none of our business.  Why  don't you just figure 
your time invested as being worth $15/hour, for the total  cost.

Now, recalculate what your cost per gram would have been if you  didn't find 
your big rock, as few hunters were as lucky as you were in finding  such a big 
rock. 

Also, break down what it cost YOU for your finds per  gram and break down 
what price per gram your dad paid for all of HIS  grammage of rocks he found, if 
you would for us?

By the way, how much are  you willing to sell some of your specimens for?  
Would you sell them for  double your cost, for a not so "clinically insane" 
price of say  maybe $24/g?   At that price, I might be a  buyer.

Steve
 


In a message dated 4/2/2009 6:16:52 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
meteoritekid at gmail.com writes:
When their profit margin is extremely high  (after
calculating the cost of our trip, we paid $12/g for the West  stones
that we found on public land - compare to the clinically  insane
selling prices of $50-100/g), 
 
**************New Low Prices on Dell Laptops ? Starting at $399 
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220433304x1201394525/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubl
eclick.net%2Fclk%3B213540718%3B35046385%3Be)

From cynapse at charter.net  Thu Apr  2 21:40:58 2009
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 20:40:58 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] -2 arrested update (Dude-- Where's
	MyCaredition)
In-Reply-To: <081101c9b3ee$c5615b10$58768a5c@Inspiron8200>
References: <c0d.4e07afe8.3706862e@aol.com><A2B1124F65574B2D8204FF0E24119927@your291etg47cr>
	<0ghat4558o0emragv94eqcs5vi6v6du2o6@4ax.com>
	<07d701c9b3e1$ca462d20$58768a5c@Inspiron8200>
	<17iat4924imc6fbop54q1pul1f975tvl38@4ax.com>
	<081101c9b3ee$c5615b10$58768a5c@Inspiron8200>
Message-ID: <66qat4517rqiefjqog253162nio5j0446f@4ax.com>

On Fri, 3 Apr 2009 01:57:17 +0200, you wrote:

>I feel that Mike Miller and Sonny never seriously thought they were on 
>"private" property

No, I make no claim at all that they had any intention of doing anything
"wrong"-- just that I can see the land owner's point of view.  (And I'm more
likely to trust the judgement of objective third parties like the police and
court system than those of the two sides of the case).

From meteoritekid at gmail.com  Thu Apr  2 20:45:51 2009
From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 17:45:51 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] How about a thread to discuss hunting ethics - west
In-Reply-To: <93aaac890904021745m2d819f3ei1ac2311c01d6aa2f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d06.5051fe79.3706aeaf@aol.com>
	<93aaac890904021745m2d819f3ei1ac2311c01d6aa2f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <93aaac890904021745o4e4372er27ecddd779b1ab2b@mail.gmail.com>

Steve,

> Remind us all what weights you found and how much the trip ?cost you and your
> dad, and the cost of the time your dad had to invest in lost ?Medical Doctor
> wages to find what you guys found? ?OK, leave out of the ?formula what your
> dad's time is worth, that is none of our business. ?Why ?don't you just figure
> your time invested as being worth $15/hour, for the total ?cost.

4.2g, 6.2g plus a 0.2g chip, 175.4g, and 2.4g.

- A total weight about on par with what I saw other people had found
in a week or so of hunting about a month ago, when there were more
stones being found. ?True, our weights aren't typical, but I can only
ascribe that to the fact that 1) I'm good at seeing smaller stones,
and that 2) we spent some time farther down the strewn-field, hoping
to come across places people hadn't looked.

Lost doctor's wages? ?Peter had that time scheduled as time off for my
spring break as of several months ago. ?Nothing was cancelled or
moved, his month had a standard number of hours.

But how much did you lose in wages? ?This is really relevant to my
point down below...kind of a side note here.

> Now, recalculate what your cost per gram would have been if you ?didn't find
> your big rock, as few hunters were as lucky as you were in finding ?such a big
> rock.

Other hunters generally found more meteorites in the 10-100g range,
though the average, from what I've read, was between ~20g and ~40g.
The average weight of the stones we found was 47g, not counting the
chip as a separate stone, which is only slightly above average, so
your point is kind of moot. ?Yes we found one big one, but, on
average, our finds were normal.

> Also, break down what it cost YOU for your finds per ?gram and break down
> what price per gram your dad paid for all of HIS ?grammage of rocks he found, if
> you would for us?

It was both of us, that was the haul. ?I used the total cost of the
trip for the pair of us and the total 'grammage' of our finds in my
calculation.

> By the way, how much are ?you willing to sell some of your specimens for?
> Would you sell them for ?double your cost, for a not so "clinically insane"
> price of say ?maybe $24/g? ? At that price, I might be a ?buyer.

We're collectors, not dealers - you know that.

But you're asking a question which raises some interesting issues.
While the initial story of "no one has stones they're willing to sell"
has passed, many hunters and collectors already went and found their
own stones. ?And while a collector who didn't go might be sitting
there saying 'crap, no one's selling,' I think it might also be
interesting to note that demand should be seriously down for a fall
that was accessible to most american collectors who were willing to
take the time to go and find their own stone.
Many of the people who would have bought from dealers have merely gone
and found their own, and the people who didn't...well, it's a new
fall, an L6, and it's really nothing special in terms of appearance or
science. ?Of course, it looks like a new fall, which usually retail
for, $10-30ish per gram, Park Forest raising the bar there. ?Even
historic falls usually go for $10-15/g.
In fact, I believe I can recall a nice 1/2 end cut of Leedey you
personally sold on ebay a few months back for a little less than $10
per gram.

At the same time, I find it odd that you, who walked away with over
2kg of material, think it prudent to charge $65/g, give or take.
That's $120,000. ?Not bad for a few week's worth of meteorite hunting,
especially if your costs were in the $100,000 range. ?Our trip wound
up costing us around $2,000, because we booked our flights the night
before. ?And since the flights took up the vast majority of that,
well, it makes things interesting. ?I've done some numbers. ?Had we
stayed a full week extra and found the same amount of meteorites (that
we had found in the previous *five* days), it would have cost us about
$500-600 more, and the price per gram of our finds would have come
down to about $7/g.
But you came away with 2kg. ?If you spent the full amount that we did
for the two of us, on yourself only, you paid $1/g. ?If you spent
$4,000, you spent $2/g. ?If you somehow managed to spend $10,000 on
your trip, well - you would only need to sell 150 grams of material at
your price of $65/g to cover your costs.
You've asked some pretty 'off' questions, so here are a few of my own
- how much of your stock have you sold, and how much money have you
made?

Regards,
Jason

From GeoZay at aol.com  Thu Apr  2 20:48:10 2009
From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 20:48:10 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] -2 arrested update (Dude-- Where's
	MyCaredition)
Message-ID: <be9.4cdbae7e.3706b6ca@aol.com>


>>No, I make no claim at all that they  had any intention of doing anything
"wrong"-- just that I can see the land  owner's point of view.  (And I'm more
likely to trust the judgement of  objective third parties like the police and
court system than those of the  two sides of the case).<<

This all kinda reminds me of the movie,  "My Cousin Vinny". :O)
GeoZay  

**************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store?  Make dinner for $10 or 
less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001)

From element33 at peconic.net  Thu Apr  2 20:51:39 2009
From: element33 at peconic.net (Michael Bross)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 02:51:39 +0200
Subject: [meteorite-list] -2 arrested update (Dude-- Where'sMyCaredition)
References: <c0d.4e07afe8.3706862e@aol.com><A2B1124F65574B2D8204FF0E24119927@your291etg47cr><0ghat4558o0emragv94eqcs5vi6v6du2o6@4ax.com><07d701c9b3e1$ca462d20$58768a5c@Inspiron8200><17iat4924imc6fbop54q1pul1f975tvl38@4ax.com><081101c9b3ee$c5615b10$58768a5c@Inspiron8200>
	<66qat4517rqiefjqog253162nio5j0446f@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <092401c9b3f6$594d88b0$58768a5c@Inspiron8200>

I didn't say so Darren
+ the quote you answer to wasn't intended to you.

Michael, France

PS: although... be cautious with the "objectivity" of 3rd parties :)



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Darren Garrison" <cynapse at charter.net>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 3:40 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] -2 arrested update (Dude--  
Where'sMyCaredition)


> On Fri, 3 Apr 2009 01:57:17 +0200, you wrote:
>
>>I feel that Mike Miller and Sonny never seriously thought they were on
>>"private" property
>
> No, I make no claim at all that they had any intention of doing anything
> "wrong"-- just that I can see the land owner's point of view.  (And I'm 
> more
> likely to trust the judgement of objective third parties like the police 
> and
> court system than those of the two sides of the case).
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 




From MeteorHntr at aol.com  Thu Apr  2 20:55:36 2009
From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 20:55:36 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] -2 arrested update (Dude-- Where's
	MyCaredition)
Message-ID: <c0c.58a7d045.3706b888@aol.com>

I don't doubt that Mike and Sonny were on  private land without permission, 
they have admitted so.

Was there was  grounds for an arrest buy an unbiased police men? 

Sure.

It was  for a court case to decide their guilt, had they wanted to plead "Not 
 Guilty."  As I understand, they decided to plead "Guilty."

I assume  they did this either because they were technically guilty as 
charged, or because  it was better for them to make such a plea than to take their 
chances and money  to try to fight the charges.  With the attitude of the judge 
to go over the  law and to order people out of his county, I think taking the 
path of least  resistance would have been very attractive to most anyone 
found in the same  situation.

To claim that such a judge was an "objective third party" in  this case seems 
to be a bit of a stretch.  

And, not that we can  believe the newspaper 100%, but it seemed that part of 
the reason the judge was  being so "easy" on them was because the land owner 
wasn't wanting to push the  issue.  Which, coming from a gun toting, burglar 
apprehending victim, that  shows that maybe even she thought sending them to 
jail was too extreme, even if  such a jail sentence could have been within the 
limits of "the fullest extent of  the law."

That is just my take.

Steve  Arnold
Arkansas



In a message dated 4/2/2009 7:43:18 P.M.  Central Daylight Time, 
cynapse at charter.net writes:
On Fri, 3 Apr 2009  01:57:17 +0200, you wrote:

>I feel that Mike Miller and Sonny never  seriously thought they were on 
>"private" property

No, I make no  claim at all that they had any intention of doing anything
"wrong"-- just  that I can see the land owner's point of view.  (And I'm more
likely to  trust the judgement of objective third parties like the police and
court  system than those of the two sides of the case).  

**************New Low Prices on Dell Laptops ? Starting at $399 
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220433304x1201394525/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubl
eclick.net%2Fclk%3B213540718%3B35046385%3Be)

From element33 at peconic.net  Thu Apr  2 21:07:56 2009
From: element33 at peconic.net (Michael Bross)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 03:07:56 +0200
Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA 1974 (..and false claim)
References: <12356574.1238600942693.JavaMail.root@mswamui-bichon.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <092701c9b3f8$9fc1a860$58768a5c@Inspiron8200>

Hello Listers and Ryan

Sorry to come back to "Chicago Steve" thread...

Ryan, I can't more agree with your post !
I am new to the list, but it didn't take me long (without looking at 
archives) to
be cautious with Chicago Steve (Steve # 1...? well...)

His fake AD wasn't just bad taste but simply under the belt, outrageous !

+ I was one of the idiots to waste time sending him an off-list email to try 
to soothe his pains and sorrows !
even ready to buy a $50 meteorite for helping him... stupid naive me... glad 
I didn't...

Result ? same blunt 3 words answer with a mistake in pricing reminding me 
our off-list
email exchanges about some Sikhote Alin a month ago... Chicago Steve needing 
3 emails
to figure out what photo referred to what grams and subsequently what 
price... I gave up

No matter what happens to him on the list or otherwise, I will NEVER buy 
from him

All the best
Michael B, France



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "RJP" <yellowengine at earthlink.net>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>; <stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 5:49 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 1974 (..and false claim)


> So you posted a fake AD, claiming that bills were piling up, you were out 
> of work, and that your relationship with your wife was becoming unstable. 
> You then posted a sales AD (and page) with things that you simply no 
> longer wanted for your collection anymore, marked the prices down a couple 
> of times, and stated that this was the end of the road for you on the met 
> list. You probably received a handful of sympathetic emails in regards to 
> your post, and now you say that it was an early April fools joke?  Further 
> more, I inquired about your 50g Berduc off-list, and the price that you 
> quoted me ($1270) was marked up more than 100% from the price that was 
> posted just a couple of days ago on on your sales page!
>
> Don't you think that maybe all of this was in poor taste, especially with 
> the jobless rate at an all time high, and the economy at an all time low 
> in years? I simply see it as a tacky, tasteless scheme.
>
> Wondering, with regards...
>
> Ryan
>

>
> "Hi again list,and no ad.I see there is only 398 grams of NWA 1794.But I 
> see there is also more material out there.Did they find more later,and if 
> they did,what is the latest TKW?Also last week was a prequel to this 
> day.APRIL FOOL'S DAY!!I am going no where.Have a great day and keep 
> finding our passion."
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 




From GeoZay at aol.com  Thu Apr  2 21:09:02 2009
From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 21:09:02 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] -2 arrested update (Dude-- Where's My
	Caredition)
Message-ID: <c8c.3b8af9bd.3706bbae@aol.com>


>>Regarding the Judge and his "Get out  of Dodge" statement.  That's not 
uncommon.  If you've ever seen  some of the videos of cops in action, you'll 
see that they tell suspicious  people to get out of neighborhoods all the 
time.<<

I was once a  fireman and many years ago, I recall being on a call for an 
"unconscious"  person. Well...the guy was faking it. Eventually he realized the 
jig was up and  came clean. He was trying to get arrested so he can spend a 
week or so in jail  to rest up. The story came out that the police dept in 
Dallas, Texas bought him  a bus ticket for southern california. So the California 
police department bought  him another bus ticket for Dallas. :O)
GeoZay  

**************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store?  Make dinner for $10 or 
less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001)

From GeoZay at aol.com  Thu Apr  2 21:15:12 2009
From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 21:15:12 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA 1974 (..and false claim)
Message-ID: <bec.3823c421.3706bd20@aol.com>


>>Result ? same blunt 3 words answer  with a mistake in pricing reminding me 
our off-list
email exchanges about  some Sikhote Alin a month ago... Chicago Steve needing 
3 emails
to figure  out what photo referred to what grams and subsequently what 
price... I gave  up>>

I bought 2 Sikhote-alins from Chicago Steve last month and  another off of 
ebay. Had no problems at all. These were three of the best buys  I've ever made 
for very low prices. I also benefited from a couple of Steve's  
freebies...also some of my best pieces I've came across. Again no  problems...
GeoZay  

**************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store?  Make dinner for $10 or 
less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001)

From yellowengine at earthlink.net  Thu Apr  2 21:24:11 2009
From: yellowengine at earthlink.net (RJP)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 21:24:11 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA 1974 (..and false claim)
Message-ID: <8135007.1238721851706.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hybrid.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Hello Michael,

Although I felt that his false claims were in poor taste, perhaps all of this has gone a bit too far. I never had any major squabbles with Steve in the past, so it's actually kind of disappointing to see how far this whole thing has progressed over the last 48 hrs or so. He is one of our own, regardless.

Kind Regards,

Ryan 

  

-----Original Message-----
>From: Michael Bross <element33 at peconic.net>
>Sent: Apr 2, 2009 9:07 PM
>To: RJP <yellowengine at earthlink.net>, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 1974 (..and false claim)
>
>Hello Listers and Ryan
>
>Sorry to come back to "Chicago Steve" thread...
>
>Ryan, I can't more agree with your post !
>I am new to the list, but it didn't take me long (without looking at 
>archives) to
>be cautious with Chicago Steve (Steve # 1...? well...)
>
>His fake AD wasn't just bad taste but simply under the belt, outrageous !
>
>+ I was one of the idiots to waste time sending him an off-list email to try 
>to soothe his pains and sorrows !
>even ready to buy a $50 meteorite for helping him... stupid naive me... glad 
>I didn't...
>
>Result ? same blunt 3 words answer with a mistake in pricing reminding me 
>our off-list
>email exchanges about some Sikhote Alin a month ago... Chicago Steve needing 
>3 emails
>to figure out what photo referred to what grams and subsequently what 
>price... I gave up
>
>No matter what happens to him on the list or otherwise, I will NEVER buy 
>from him
>
>All the best
>Michael B, France
>
>
>
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "RJP" <yellowengine at earthlink.net>
>To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>; <stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com>
>Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 5:49 PM
>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 1974 (..and false claim)
>
>
>> So you posted a fake AD, claiming that bills were piling up, you were out 
>> of work, and that your relationship with your wife was becoming unstable. 
>> You then posted a sales AD (and page) with things that you simply no 
>> longer wanted for your collection anymore, marked the prices down a couple 
>> of times, and stated that this was the end of the road for you on the met 
>> list. You probably received a handful of sympathetic emails in regards to 
>> your post, and now you say that it was an early April fools joke?  Further 
>> more, I inquired about your 50g Berduc off-list, and the price that you 
>> quoted me ($1270) was marked up more than 100% from the price that was 
>> posted just a couple of days ago on on your sales page!
>>
>> Don't you think that maybe all of this was in poor taste, especially with 
>> the jobless rate at an all time high, and the economy at an all time low 
>> in years? I simply see it as a tacky, tasteless scheme.
>>
>> Wondering, with regards...
>>
>> Ryan
>>
>
>>
>> "Hi again list,and no ad.I see there is only 398 grams of NWA 1794.But I 
>> see there is also more material out there.Did they find more later,and if 
>> they did,what is the latest TKW?Also last week was a prequel to this 
>> day.APRIL FOOL'S DAY!!I am going no where.Have a great day and keep 
>> finding our passion."
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> 
>
>
>


From element33 at peconic.net  Thu Apr  2 21:26:05 2009
From: element33 at peconic.net (Michael Bross)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 03:26:05 +0200
Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA 1974 (..and false claim)
References: <bec.3823c421.3706bd20@aol.com>
Message-ID: <097701c9b3fb$28ab54d0$58768a5c@Inspiron8200>

good for you GeoZay :)

I guess he was not interested enough to sell to someone in France, selling 
the Sikhote
Alins off list + on ebay at the same time... and waiting 5 min before they 
ended on ebay to
answer how much it will cost for shipping to France.

Whatever frustrating this was for a new collector/lister like me... it was 
really the way he answered
and handled my emails that bothered me. I forgot this when he put his 
"desperate" AD... and got
even more disgusted...

Enjoy your buys from Chicago Steve, but I don't regret his blunt emails to 
and off list :)

Michael B, France



----- Original Message ----- 
From: <GeoZay at aol.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 3:15 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 1974 (..and false claim)


>
>>>Result ? same blunt 3 words answer  with a mistake in pricing reminding 
>>>me
> our off-list
> email exchanges about  some Sikhote Alin a month ago... Chicago Steve 
> needing
> 3 emails
> to figure  out what photo referred to what grams and subsequently what
> price... I gave  up>>
>
> I bought 2 Sikhote-alins from Chicago Steve last month and  another off of
> ebay. Had no problems at all. These were three of the best buys  I've ever 
> made
> for very low prices. I also benefited from a couple of Steve's
> freebies...also some of my best pieces I've came across. Again no 
> problems...
> GeoZay
>
> **************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store?  Make dinner for $10 
> or
> less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001)
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 




From ensoramanda at ntlworld.com  Thu Apr  2 21:37:09 2009
From: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com (ensoramanda at ntlworld.com)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 2:37:09 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] How about a thread to discuss hunting ethics
In-Reply-To: <144135.42107.qm@web55205.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20090403023709.7M9TV.171637.root@web04-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com>

Hi Rob, All,

On the other hand, here in the UK I was brought up in the countryside on a farm where there has always been a 'right to roam' and have never feared walking the fields and the many footpaths, often straying away from so called rights of way, but still being considerate and following the countyside code.
Even when challenged by landowners they usually know that little can be done about trespassers here so long as no damage is done and I have never had a problem, just left amicably with an apology. I think we are very lucky.

I will certainly not stray away from public highways in other countries again without careful research after this story.



Graham Ensor, UK


---- Rob McCafferty <rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com> wrote: 
> 
> In the UK we say "STAY ORF MY LAAAND!", usually with a farmers shotgun in hand.
> 
> 
> --- On Thu, 4/2/09, bernd.pauli at paulinet.de <bernd.pauli at paulinet.de> wrote:
> 
> > From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de <bernd.pauli at paulinet.de>
> > Subject: [meteorite-list] How about a thread to discuss hunting ethics
> > To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > Date: Thursday, April 2, 2009, 9:58 PM
> > Hi John and List,
> > 
> > "This guy was all business, nothing pleasant or polite
> > in the least way."
> > 
> > This is probably what Jay meant when he wrote:
> > 
> > "I suppose that's the American way ..."
> > 
> > With due respect, there are "Brits" and there are
> > "Germans", but what are
> > "Americans"? They are a "melting pot"
> > or a "salad bowl", ... in other words
> > they've got a bit of this and a bit of that and
> > something like "stay away from
> > my property sounds so very "German" that it could
> > have happened here in
> > Germany ;-)
> > 
> > Best wishes,
> > 
> > Bernd (not trying to start another diatribe!!!)
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ______________________________________________
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 
> 
>       
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


From GeoZay at aol.com  Thu Apr  2 21:39:53 2009
From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 21:39:53 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA 1974 (..and false claim)
Message-ID: <d4c.3c4d247c.3706c2e9@aol.com>


>>I guess he was not interested enough  to sell to someone in France, selling 
the Sikhote
Alins off list + on  ebay at the same time... and waiting 5 min before they 
ended on ebay  to
answer how much it will cost for shipping to France.<<

He  didn't sell them to me off list and ebay at the same time. Actually he 
had no  idea it was me that was bidding on ebay until it was over. It was later 
in the  month that he put the other SA's for sale off list. The photos weren't 
all that  great, but at the time I relied on his stuff of usually being very 
good quality  for my price range. That was one of my best judgement calls to 
date. So you made  your ebay bid without knowing what the shipment would be? 
Personally I wouldn't  have made a bid without knowing the shipping costs. Some 
are outrageous and some  very reasonable. 

>>Enjoy your buys from Chicago Steve, but I don't  regret his blunt emails to 
and off list :)<<

Well...sorry to  hear that you had a sour experience for whatever the cause. 
But I do plan on  enjoying my acquisitions however it was done.
GeoZay  

**************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store?  Make dinner for $10 or 
less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001)

From JPBrockets at aol.com  Thu Apr  2 21:53:53 2009
From: JPBrockets at aol.com (JPBrockets at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 21:53:53 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad - Meteorite Magazine August 2004 The Auckland
	Meteorite -
Message-ID: <bcf.423a3124.3706c631@aol.com>

Greetings List Members:

For those with  possible interest, please take a look.   

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200325444720&ssPageName=ADM
E:X:AAQ:US:1123

Thanks

Juris
jpbrockets at aol.com   

**************New Low Prices on Dell Laptops ? Starting at $399 
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220433304x1201394525/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubl
eclick.net%2Fclk%3B213540718%3B35046385%3Be)

From element33 at peconic.net  Thu Apr  2 21:54:32 2009
From: element33 at peconic.net (Michael Bross)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 03:54:32 +0200
Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA 1974 (..and false claim)
References: <d4c.3c4d247c.3706c2e9@aol.com>
Message-ID: <09ca01c9b3ff$249e5b40$58768a5c@Inspiron8200>

Boy... lets end that GeoZay

I didn't bid on ebay, I saw by coincidence that he was proposing on ebay at 
the same time
as proposing off-list with 3 fotos he sent, not telling what foto referred 
to what grams and price.
It must not be the same time, because the fotos were great...

On ebay, there was no international S&H pricing either..
do you think I am so stupid to bid without knowing ?! :)

I was only interested in one SA for its beautiful shape. By the time Chicago 
Steve
was finally able (or willing...) to put 2 to 2 together and telling me the 
price of that
one, I had given up.

Anyway, no matter what, his "fake/Aprils fool day !" AD is outrageous

lets keep any further emails off-list, OK ?

Michael B, France




----- Original Message ----- 
From: <GeoZay at aol.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 3:39 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 1974 (..and false claim)


>
>>>I guess he was not interested enough  to sell to someone in France, 
>>>selling
> the Sikhote
> Alins off list + on  ebay at the same time... and waiting 5 min before 
> they
> ended on ebay  to
> answer how much it will cost for shipping to France.<<
>
> He  didn't sell them to me off list and ebay at the same time. Actually he
> had no  idea it was me that was bidding on ebay until it was over. It was 
> later
> in the  month that he put the other SA's for sale off list. The photos 
> weren't
> all that  great, but at the time I relied on his stuff of usually being 
> very
> good quality  for my price range. That was one of my best judgement calls 
> to
> date. So you made  your ebay bid without knowing what the shipment would 
> be?
> Personally I wouldn't  have made a bid without knowing the shipping costs. 
> Some
> are outrageous and some  very reasonable.
>
>>>Enjoy your buys from Chicago Steve, but I don't  regret his blunt emails 
>>>to
> and off list :)<<
>
> Well...sorry to  hear that you had a sour experience for whatever the 
> cause.
> But I do plan on  enjoying my acquisitions however it was done.
> GeoZay
>
> **************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store?  Make dinner for $10 
> or
> less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001)
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 




From mikewren at gilanet.com  Thu Apr  2 21:56:20 2009
From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 18:56:20 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] How about a thread to discuss hunting ethics -
	west
In-Reply-To: <93aaac890904021745o4e4372er27ecddd779b1ab2b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d06.5051fe79.3706aeaf@aol.com>
	<93aaac890904021745m2d819f3ei1ac2311c01d6aa2f@mail.gmail.com>
	<93aaac890904021745o4e4372er27ecddd779b1ab2b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <06821DD0-A10A-41F2-903C-7F5A81CCDF36@gilanet.com>

Hello,

Not to get into this argument too deep, but I think you (Jason) are  
leaving out a very important part of your pricing train of thought.  
First, you got to hunt in an established strewn field, one that took  
many people hundreds of hours to establish.  There were many fields  
that were searched with NO results. Those hunters in the first 10 days  
did a lot of work to make it possible for people to come later and  
find stones with a lot more ease.  Also, I remember you asking the  
list if you could get information to make it easier for you to find  
stones, because you did not want to start from scratch. It was easier  
for you than those in the first wave. Also, I met you on Mr. Enders  
farm. The first and only pay to play game out there in the fields of  
West.  That pay to play thing at Enders was established by myself. I  
taught Mr. Enders about meteorites, I raised the prices paid to him  
and I got his fields open to over 50 meteorite hunters. I taught him  
that it was best if he charged people $50.00 a day and set a gram  
price for what they found. Mr Enders has made over ~$15,000.00 by  
opening up his fields to us. Also, because of this pay to play thing,  
over 100 stones were recovered over his property, so far. When I first  
met him, he refused permission to let anyone hunt anymore on his land.  
I spent over 3 hours teaching and establishing a framework for him.  
One that seemed fair and good for all at the time. As a result,  
several weeks later you and your father were able to go there, park  
your car, have a base, and immediately begin hunting meteorites. Yes,  
your cost per gram may be lower, but in reality, you had very little  
time invested in your hunt. Just some thoughts...

Best Wishes

Michael
On Apr 2, 2009, at 5:45 PM, Jason Utas wrote:

> Steve,
>
>> Remind us all what weights you found and how much the trip  cost  
>> you and your
>> dad, and the cost of the time your dad had to invest in lost   
>> Medical Doctor
>> wages to find what you guys found?  OK, leave out of the  formula  
>> what your
>> dad's time is worth, that is none of our business.  Why  don't you  
>> just figure
>> your time invested as being worth $15/hour, for the total  cost.
>
> 4.2g, 6.2g plus a 0.2g chip, 175.4g, and 2.4g.
>
> - A total weight about on par with what I saw other people had found
> in a week or so of hunting about a month ago, when there were more
> stones being found.  True, our weights aren't typical, but I can only
> ascribe that to the fact that 1) I'm good at seeing smaller stones,
> and that 2) we spent some time farther down the strewn-field, hoping
> to come across places people hadn't looked.
>
> Lost doctor's wages?  Peter had that time scheduled as time off for my
> spring break as of several months ago.  Nothing was cancelled or
> moved, his month had a standard number of hours.
>
> But how much did you lose in wages?  This is really relevant to my
> point down below...kind of a side note here.
>
>> Now, recalculate what your cost per gram would have been if you   
>> didn't find
>> your big rock, as few hunters were as lucky as you were in finding   
>> such a big
>> rock.
>
> Other hunters generally found more meteorites in the 10-100g range,
> though the average, from what I've read, was between ~20g and ~40g.
> The average weight of the stones we found was 47g, not counting the
> chip as a separate stone, which is only slightly above average, so
> your point is kind of moot.  Yes we found one big one, but, on
> average, our finds were normal.
>
>> Also, break down what it cost YOU for your finds per  gram and  
>> break down
>> what price per gram your dad paid for all of HIS  grammage of rocks  
>> he found, if
>> you would for us?
>
> It was both of us, that was the haul.  I used the total cost of the
> trip for the pair of us and the total 'grammage' of our finds in my
> calculation.
>
>> By the way, how much are  you willing to sell some of your  
>> specimens for?
>> Would you sell them for  double your cost, for a not so "clinically  
>> insane"
>> price of say  maybe $24/g?   At that price, I might be a  buyer.
>
> We're collectors, not dealers - you know that.
>
> But you're asking a question which raises some interesting issues.
> While the initial story of "no one has stones they're willing to sell"
> has passed, many hunters and collectors already went and found their
> own stones.  And while a collector who didn't go might be sitting
> there saying 'crap, no one's selling,' I think it might also be
> interesting to note that demand should be seriously down for a fall
> that was accessible to most american collectors who were willing to
> take the time to go and find their own stone.
> Many of the people who would have bought from dealers have merely gone
> and found their own, and the people who didn't...well, it's a new
> fall, an L6, and it's really nothing special in terms of appearance or
> science.  Of course, it looks like a new fall, which usually retail
> for, $10-30ish per gram, Park Forest raising the bar there.  Even
> historic falls usually go for $10-15/g.
> In fact, I believe I can recall a nice 1/2 end cut of Leedey you
> personally sold on ebay a few months back for a little less than $10
> per gram.
>
> At the same time, I find it odd that you, who walked away with over
> 2kg of material, think it prudent to charge $65/g, give or take.
> That's $120,000.  Not bad for a few week's worth of meteorite hunting,
> especially if your costs were in the $100,000 range.  Our trip wound
> up costing us around $2,000, because we booked our flights the night
> before.  And since the flights took up the vast majority of that,
> well, it makes things interesting.  I've done some numbers.  Had we
> stayed a full week extra and found the same amount of meteorites (that
> we had found in the previous *five* days), it would have cost us about
> $500-600 more, and the price per gram of our finds would have come
> down to about $7/g.
> But you came away with 2kg.  If you spent the full amount that we did
> for the two of us, on yourself only, you paid $1/g.  If you spent
> $4,000, you spent $2/g.  If you somehow managed to spend $10,000 on
> your trip, well - you would only need to sell 150 grams of material at
> your price of $65/g to cover your costs.
> You've asked some pretty 'off' questions, so here are a few of my own
> - how much of your stock have you sold, and how much money have you
> made?
>
> Regards,
> Jason
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


From carothersdl at gmail.com  Thu Apr  2 21:57:23 2009
From: carothersdl at gmail.com (dave carothers)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 21:57:23 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] -2 arrested update (Dude-- Where's My
	Caredition)
References: <c18.51b0efca.37069eab@aol.com>
Message-ID: <01B04A4732924E61B049E4C8682F08B4@your291etg47cr>

Hi Steve,

I'll briefly reply in the same manner...

In a message dated 4/2/2009 7:05 PM
MeteorHntr at aol.com writes:

Steve said:

Were they actually burglars, or were they just  knocking on her door asking
to use the phone for their broken down car?

I am sure they were probably burglars.  But my point is, just  because a
newspaper says something, doesn't make it so.   Almost EVERY  meteorite 
story ever
published has minor if not major flaws in them.  And  these are not 
typically
stories where a reporter's bias could be blamed for the  bad journalism.
Almost ALL journalism is shotty today.  I just don't  believe anything in 
print,
just because it is in print.

 Maybe  Sonny and Mike are lucky to only have to pay $2,000.  Maybe they 
were
unlucky to have to pay $2,000.  Yes, they might have been shot.  I  like and
respect Sonny and Mike too.  I agree, without asking permission,  they did 
not
belong there.


*******
The point I was making about the landowner and the burglers was to 
illustrate that Sonny and Mike (or anyone in a similar position) doesn't 
necessarily know the background or local history of the area and what 
suspicions and fears may be present, hence, my follow-on about the 
possibility of their getting shot.  The bottom line is I think we all agree 
that getting permission first in the only way to go.

*******

Steve said:

Thanks for the correction Dave.  I think I have only seen  the phrase "Get
the hell out of Dodge" in old western movies, usually relating  to Dodge 
City,
Kansas.  But arrogant law men are slightly different than  judges sitting on 
a
bench with a stenographer recording every statement.   Besides, is 
Hollywood's
perspective always the way it really happens in  life?

Of course, IF Mike and Sonny had already made a plea agreement, or  simply
plead guilty (whether they really were guilty or not) throwing themselves 
at
the mercy of the court, the judge I presume could puff up his chest and say
about anything he wanted.

And, I don't mean to imply that if either of them were arrested again, and
brought before the same judge, that he would not be more strict the second 
time
 around.  I don't doubt he would throw the book at them.

My preface  was that this story seemed a bit fishy to me, that is all.

Do judges in Georgia run for public election?  "Re-elect Judge  Daniel, he's
tough on space crime!" might be a good campaign  slogan.

*******

I've worked with the law enforcement community for 12 years and while the 
vast majority are there to serve the public interest, there are those 
(police, attorneys, and judges) who abuse their positions to the detriment 
of the public. In my previous post, I guess I was surprised by the fact that 
you appeard to find it "unusual" for such a comment to be made by a judge.

*******

Steve said:

Dave, with all due respect to you, I like to  engage people in 
conversations.
 Me doing so with that man had nothing to  do with me being arrogant.  If
someone has an objection, in sales one  learns to flush out those 
objections.  If
you don't know  the objections, then how do you overcome them?  Often 
times,
people have very valid objections.  Other times, they  don't.

Unless a person comes out with their excuse, or if one asks, it is  hard to
find out why they object.  Granted, people lie.  Sometimes  they will say 
they
don't want you to hunt because 23 years ago, a fisherman left  a gate open 
and
some cows got out.  But usually that isn't a valid reason  for never letting
anyone ever come on their land again.

Yes, of  course, with private property, people don't have to have a reason.
But  usually they do have a reason.  Unless it is brought out, it is often
hard  to rationally talk with someone about a solution.

[snip]

*******

I thank you for the detailed explanation, but I still have issue with your 
idea that a land owner would owe you an explanation other than "No" when 
asked to search their property.  You state above that  "Sometimes they will 
say they don't want you to hunt because 23 years ago, a fisherman left a 
gate open and some cows got out.  But usually that isn't a valid reason for 
never letting anyone ever come on their land again."  That is where the 
arrogance appears. If someone left a gate open 23 or 50 years ago and the 
property owner doesn't want anyone else to EVER come on the property again. 
So be it.  You may not like the reason, but who are you to judge the 
validity of the decision?  You also state "Often  times, people have very 
valid objections.  Other times, they don't."  I'll say it again... If you 
own the property, you have no obligation to explain why you don't want 
someone on your property and you sure don't have to justify or validate any 
reason if you decide to provide more than a "NO!" answer.

I agree that conversation is useful, but can you also see that pushing the 
envelope and pressing soneone for a "reason" and not to say that you would 
actually do this, but potentially argue the validity of the "reason" would 
surely sour any land owner.

Regards,

Dave 


From carothersdl at gmail.com  Thu Apr  2 22:00:11 2009
From: carothersdl at gmail.com (dave carothers)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 22:00:11 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] -2 arrested update (Dude-- Where's
	MyCaredition)
References: <c8c.3b8af9bd.3706bbae@aol.com>
Message-ID: <0FA995217F2349E79E5DEC1C1496BEB7@your291etg47cr>

That's a sorry state of affairs, but unfortunately, there are many such 
stories like this across the US every day.

Dave
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <GeoZay at aol.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 9:09 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] -2 arrested update (Dude-- Where's 
MyCaredition)


>
>>>Regarding the Judge and his "Get out  of Dodge" statement.  That's not
> uncommon.  If you've ever seen  some of the videos of cops in action, 
> you'll
> see that they tell suspicious  people to get out of neighborhoods all the
> time.<<
>
> I was once a  fireman and many years ago, I recall being on a call for an
> "unconscious"  person. Well...the guy was faking it. Eventually he 
> realized the
> jig was up and  came clean. He was trying to get arrested so he can spend 
> a
> week or so in jail  to rest up. The story came out that the police dept in
> Dallas, Texas bought him  a bus ticket for southern california. So the 
> California
> police department bought  him another bus ticket for Dallas. :O)
> GeoZay
>
> **************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store?  Make dinner for $10 
> or
> less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001)
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 


From mikewren at gilanet.com  Thu Apr  2 22:08:16 2009
From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 19:08:16 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Getting Permission To Hunt & Private Property,
	Example West, Texas. What Worked...
Message-ID: <08779C2A-6E86-4B85-AD75-2970CCB45526@gilanet.com>

Hello All,



From MeteorHntr at aol.com  Thu Apr  2 22:12:12 2009
From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 22:12:12 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] How about a thread to discuss hunting ethics -
	west
Message-ID: <bf5.54ab6a49.3706ca7c@aol.com>

Hello Jason,

I have a feeling this is  going to get deep.

You are a collector that likes to buy things as cheap  as you can, intending 
to never sell your collection ever, and as such, your only  concern is to get 
as much good stuff as cheap as you can.  You don't care  at all what your 
collection might be worth in dollar figures now or at anytime  in the future.

I on the other hand am a dealer, that doesn't collect, and  as such I like to 
sell things so that I can make as much profit as I can.   Let me point out 
that selling a few specimens at a high price and not selling  many of the 
remaining specimens in my inventory usually is not a clear  definition of making the 
most possible.  Neither is selling all I have in  24 hours at a low price 
just to get the most cash quickly.  

For  both of us to agree on the forthcoming issues is going to be hard, if 
not  impossible.  So my goal is not going to be to try to change your  mind.  I 
will be happy to simply present my challege to your comment that  your 
specimens only "Cost" you $12/g compared to the "clinically insane" prices  you 
suggest $50 to $100/g is that are being charged by me and  others.

First off, my prices have ranges from a base of $35/g up to  $105/g.  

Here is my publicly presented table of values:

Base  Price $35/g
Found BEFORE THE RAIN +$15/g
Under 5     +$20/g
Under 10  +$15/g
Under 20  +$10/g
Under 30   +$5/g
100% crusted  +$10/g
Oriented   +$25/g

So a  35g stone, that is not completed crusted, not oriented, found after the 
rains, I  would value that at: $35/g x 35g = $1,225

Also, a 3g 100% crusted and  oriented stone, found before the rains would be 
valued by me at $105/g x 3g =  $315

My full slices of the large stone I have been selling at  $37.50/g.  That is 
after close to 19% saw losses on the cut portion and  costs of having it cut 
on a wire saw. 

Now, when I set those prices it  was early in the game, but to be honest, I 
think it is still a good price  structure that takes quality into the equation.

This is where I differ  from many others, and where I differ from you, Jason. 
 I feel the cost of  acquiring meteorites has NO bearing on their values at 
all.  Or at least it  shouldn't.

I think Supply and Demand should have bearing on the  values.

Now, if you don't want to sell your finds, no matter how  
easy/hard/cheap/costly they were to for you to obtain, then that plays into the  supply factor.

I acquired, personally and with the help of some of my  friends 78 specimens 
so far.  I, on the other hand, am willing to sell what  I have. So that too 
adds to the supply factor.

What about the demand  side?  

You are correct that much of the demand has been satisfied  with people going 
to West and finding specimens themselves.  I have one  customer that has 
taken 6 trips from the Dallas area to hunt at West, not  finding anything, so they 
came to me and paid my retail prices for some.   

There are previous collectors who have purchased from me as well as a  
prominent Texas University collection as well as purchases from the Smithsonian  
from me at my retail prices.   There have also been local Texans that  haven't 
purchased a meteorite before this that have bought from me.  Geoff  Notkin has 
published a story about the event that has generated some sales for  me as well.

Geoff and I are going to be on a nationwide TV show of our  own in a month on 
the Science Channel, that will generate tens of thousands if  not more 
visitors to various different web sites featuring some of my West  specimens for 
sale. Considering that this show very well might rerun over 100  times in the 
U.S. not including any other showings elsewhere on the globe, the  demand side of 
the equation is, to say the least, is in flux right now.  

Future stories in nationwide periodicals will only help build  demand.

In fact, we only need a teeny tiny fraction of one percent of the  viewers of 
the TV show to come to one of our sites, and from those visitors, we  only 
need a teeny tiny fraction of 1% to want a West meteorite or a part slice  of 
one of my West specimens, and I will sell out.  I expect I will sell out  at my 
prices, and that is why I have set them there and that I am keeping them  
there.

In fact, if anyone has some extra West specimens you would like to  sell, 
contact me off list as I might want to be a buyer, especially if the  demand for 
them spikes as it could in the next month or so and I sell out of  what 
relatively little I have left.

Also, I hunted for 27 days straight,  not for only a week.  Again, not that 
it matters, because it could have  taken me 1 day or 5,000 days to find my 
bounty, it still does not change the  value of the rocks, they are worth what they 
are worth irrespective of what it  takes me to find them.  Just as your finds 
are not for sale no matter how  many or how few you found. 

Also, because of some complicated details, of  which I won't go into here, I 
don't own all 78 specimens 100%.  Some of my  profit from the sales goes to 
others and it is not all for me to keep.   Again, this doesn't matter either.  

A one ounce gold nugget is  still worth $1,000 no matter who finds it or how 
long it takes for them to find  it.

Now, the challenge comes when collector-dealers assign personal  values to 
the rocks based on what they have into them.  They are perfectly  free to 
participate and influence the supply AND demand factors at the same time  if they 
want by doing that.  

If someone, left unnamed, went to a  fall site in Georgia and found a single 
10 gram stone, would they be able to  justify to the world that $6,000 in 
legal bills on top of all their other  expenses would justify a $800/g price?

No.

Now, THEY as collectors  might value it at $800/g as that is what it cost 
them, but would anyone  else?  Probably not.  So if they valued it and priced it 
at $800/g, it  would basically be off the market, and it would stay in their 
personal  collection.

Jason, you and anyone that wants a copy of my West inventory  list, that 
includes the prices of the first 69 specimens I have sold AND not  sold, you can 
do the math on what has been made by me so far.  Understand  that most of my 
inventory comes not from my personal efforts, but also the  efforts of 12 other 
people that I share ownership with, some who have put in  over 10 man days at 
the site.

Again, that doesn't matter.  If it  took 5,000 people 100 man hours each to 
find what I have, it still would not  change the value of what I have.  That is 
for the marketplace to decide,  not my personal man hours invested to decide.

Also, the fact that it has  been 6 years since I have hunted a fresh 
strewnfield (Park Forest) do I get to  count all those hours of waiting for a new fall 
to calculate into the value of  the rocks?  Nope.  It doesn't matter.

As stated before, my goal  isn't to change your mind.  And I am sure I 
haven't.  I don't look at  this from a socialist point of view but from a capitalist 
point of view.  I  am not entitled to get paid just because I spent money and 
time looking, but  rather I am entitled to get paid on what I find AND what I 
am able to market,  based on what the marketplace is willing to pay.

I am an entrepreneur not  a government employee.

That is my story, and I am sticking to  it.

Steve Arnold
Arkansas



In a message dated 4/2/2009  7:46:09 P.M. Central Daylight Time, 
meteoritekid at gmail.com  writes:
Steve,

> Remind us all what weights you found and how much  the trip  cost you and 
your
> dad, and the cost of the time your dad  had to invest in lost  Medical 
Doctor
> wages to find what you guys  found?  OK, leave out of the  formula what your
> dad's time is  worth, that is none of our business.  Why  don't you just  
figure
> your time invested as being worth $15/hour, for the total   cost.

4.2g, 6.2g plus a 0.2g chip, 175.4g, and 2.4g.

- A total  weight about on par with what I saw other people had found
in a week or so of  hunting about a month ago, when there were more
stones being found.   True, our weights aren't typical, but I can only
ascribe that to the fact  that 1) I'm good at seeing smaller stones,
and that 2) we spent some time  farther down the strewn-field, hoping
to come across places people hadn't  looked.

Lost doctor's wages?  Peter had that time scheduled as time  off for my
spring break as of several months ago.  Nothing was cancelled  or
moved, his month had a standard number of hours.

But how much did  you lose in wages?  This is really relevant to my
point down  below...kind of a side note here.

> Now, recalculate what your cost  per gram would have been if you  didn't 
find
> your big rock, as few  hunters were as lucky as you were in finding  such a 
big
>  rock.

Other hunters generally found more meteorites in the 10-100g  range,
though the average, from what I've read, was between ~20g and  ~40g.
The average weight of the stones we found was 47g, not counting  the
chip as a separate stone, which is only slightly above average,  so
your point is kind of moot.  Yes we found one big one, but,  on
average, our finds were normal.

> Also, break down what it cost  YOU for your finds per  gram and break down
> what price per gram  your dad paid for all of HIS  grammage of rocks he 
found, if
> you  would for us?

It was both of us, that was the haul.  I used the  total cost of the
trip for the pair of us and the total 'grammage' of our  finds in my
calculation.

> By the way, how much are  you  willing to sell some of your specimens for?
> Would you sell them  for  double your cost, for a not so "clinically insane"
> price of  say  maybe $24/g?   At that price, I might be a   buyer.

We're collectors, not dealers - you know that.

But you're  asking a question which raises some interesting issues.
While the initial  story of "no one has stones they're willing to sell"
has passed, many hunters  and collectors already went and found their
own stones.  And while a  collector who didn't go might be sitting
there saying 'crap, no one's  selling,' I think it might also be
interesting to note that demand should be  seriously down for a fall
that was accessible to most american collectors who  were willing to
take the time to go and find their own stone.
Many of the  people who would have bought from dealers have merely gone
and found their  own, and the people who didn't...well, it's a new
fall, an L6, and it's  really nothing special in terms of appearance or
science.  Of course, it  looks like a new fall, which usually retail
for, $10-30ish per gram, Park  Forest raising the bar there.  Even
historic falls usually go for  $10-15/g.
In fact, I believe I can recall a nice 1/2 end cut of Leedey  you
personally sold on ebay a few months back for a little less than  $10
per gram.

At the same time, I find it odd that you, who walked  away with over
2kg of material, think it prudent to charge $65/g, give or  take.
That's $120,000.  Not bad for a few week's worth of meteorite  hunting,
especially if your costs were in the $100,000 range.  Our trip  wound
up costing us around $2,000, because we booked our flights the  night
before.  And since the flights took up the vast majority of  that,
well, it makes things interesting.  I've done some numbers.   Had we
stayed a full week extra and found the same amount of meteorites  (that
we had found in the previous *five* days), it would have cost us  about
$500-600 more, and the price per gram of our finds would have  come
down to about $7/g.
But you came away with 2kg.  If you spent  the full amount that we did
for the two of us, on yourself only, you paid  $1/g.  If you spent
$4,000, you spent $2/g.  If you somehow managed  to spend $10,000 on
your trip, well - you would only need to sell 150 grams  of material at
your price of $65/g to cover your costs.
You've asked some  pretty 'off' questions, so here are a few of my own
- how much of your stock  have you sold, and how much money have  you
made?

Regards,
Jason
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From MeteorHntr at aol.com  Thu Apr  2 22:37:21 2009
From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 22:37:21 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] -2 arrested update (Dude-- Where's My
	Caredition)
Message-ID: <d0a.4811aee6.3706d061@aol.com>

Dave,

You said:

"I thank you for the detailed explanation,  but I still have issue with your 
idea that a land owner would owe you an  explanation other than "No" when 
asked to search their property."
 

When I clearly stated in my last post:

"Does he have an  obligation to tell me why he said no?  Of course not.  And 
did I even  imply that he was obligated to?  But if you don't ask, often you 
don't get  an answer."
 
*****
 
So why do you still think that I think he OWES me an  explanation?  
 
I don't think he owes me to let me hunt on his land, but I still ask.
 
He didn't owe me an explanation, but I still asked for one.
 
Besides, if someone owes you something, you demand, you don't ask. 
 
I didn't demand anything, I just asked.  I wasn't rude. He wasn't  rude.  He 
didn't kick me off his driveway. He didn't even ask me to  leave nor did he 
end the conversation.  We had a short, 3 minute talk,  then I left when it was 
evident he didn't care if meteorites would be  lost.  Maybe if I offered him 
$10,000 in exchange for hunting, he might  have become interested.  Then again, 
if he had a $500,000 "crop" out in the  trees growing, $10,000 for hunting 
privileges wouldn't have probably interested  him either.  
 
I didn't waste his whole day, he was doing some work, and he kept working  
while I was talking.  
 
Now, maybe someone talked with him before I did and offended him  in such a 
way that he was sour to not me personally, but to "meteorite hunters"  in 
general.  That could have been the case.  And it was, I would  have loved to have 
found that out.  
 
But since he didn't say that, or give any reason, I just don't know.  

Besides, I ended up hunting on one of his neighbors ground the next day  
where we found the 1,673g specimen the day before the rains, so maybe it was a  
blessing that he said "No," and that he didn't tell me why, and that I didn't  
overcome his objections?  
 
Then again, I might have changed his mind and I might have found 5 kilo  rock 
on his ground instead.  
 
Who knows?  It is all "water under the bridge", or should I say "rocks  under 
the mud" now.
 
Steve
 
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From MeteorHntr at aol.com  Fri Apr  3 00:04:03 2009
From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 00:04:03 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] How about a thread to discuss hunting ethics -
	west
Message-ID: <c0d.4e0df495.3706e4b3@aol.com>

Jason and List,

Let me add:

If  anyone wants to go to West and find meteorites on their own they should 
try and  hope they find their's at the $12/g you found yours at.  And then if 
they  (or anyone else that has found some) want, they can sell theirs for less 
than  what I am selling mine for!  

That is the supply side of the supply  and demand equation at work.  

But what if everyone else that found  some won't want to sell theirs lower 
than what I am offering mine at?  As I  think is generally the case right now.  
Then either people will have to pay  what we are asking, or sales won't be 
made.  

Fine.  Life goes  on.  People will buy other things instead.

Again, if anyone out  there wants to sell some West real cheap, please let me 
know off  list!

Now, if others would want to sell cheaper, I then could choose to  lower my 
prices to compete in the market place, or I could hold my prices and  wait for 
such a finder to sell out of their inventory, then the future customers  would 
have to come to me if they want one of mine at my prices.

Or I  could get a TV show to air featuring me, that would create more general 
interest  and demand and drive new customers to the market in general and to 
me  specifically, people that would want to buy one of my finds at my prices.  
 

I could also wax eloquent here on the list and maybe entice some people  to 
go ahead and buy one of my rocks at my asking prices, where before they might  
not have done so.  ;-)

Again, all supply and demand forces at work.  

And to be fair, you and your opinion ALSO plays a role here.  If  you think 
my prices are "clinically insane" as you state, you are free to make  your case 
and try to influence the people controlling the demand side of things  as 
well.  

Making statements about how cheap Park Forest or Leedey  is in comparison, 
might help some people decided not to buy West with their  money and instead 
invest in those other ones that you think are better values at  this time.  Cool. 
 

But that begs a question:  Is West  really over-valued?  Or maybe Park Forest 
and Leedey are  under-valued?  

Or maybe, while West is not so special  scientifically, maybe it has a 
"historical" perspective to it, that Park Forest  and Leedey have not (yet) 
acquired?   There was a unified chorus of  hunters and dealers stating that it was 
hard to find meteorites at West.   You are one of the lone voices saying it was 
easy for you to find yours, and yet  you are one of many people who did in fact 
find some, that are also not willing  to sell any of your finds at ANY price, 
much less at my "clinically insane"  prices.  

OK, so you and some other "collectors" found your and you  are keeping a 
tighter grip on them than I am!  

If you really want  these to sell for less, you should put yours up for sale 
at $12/g and help move  the values down.  But you (and a lot of others) don't 
want to do that do  you?

Hummm...  I wonder why people have been willing to pay my  prices for the 
last month or so???

I haven't paid close attention to what  others have been selling theirs for, 
maybe I am too high.  Heck, maybe my  prices are too low?  I feel they are 
fair.  But I am open for some  alteration in my thinking.  But I refuse to let my 
hours in the field and  my actual costs determine my prices, because there 
have been MANY months in my  last 17 years of hunting that I have found nothing, 
and there was no "meteorite  welfare" program to pay me when I worked just as 
hard with no results.   

I'm not complaining that I don't have tenure at a university that pays  me no 
matter how little I do, or that I don't get unemployment when the snow is  3 
foot deep outside. 

Again, I am an entrepreneur not an employee.   

But I digress.  Back to the point at hand...

Maybe no one  has adequately romanced to all the new collectors driving the 
market, why Park  Forest and Leedey are such great values right now compared to 
West.   Understand that many current collectors were not yet collecting in 
2003 when  Park Forest fell nor back in 1947 when Leedey fell.  

Note: I did  notice that Adam Hupe made the comparison with his new 
diogenite.  Kudos to  Adam for making a great marketing observation, that in 
comparison, his rock is a  bargain.  Maybe we will see the prices of all other 
meteorites going up  soon?   Maybe the West fall's "rising tide" has just lifted all 
the  ships in the harbor?

Of course, you would hate to see that.  I  understand.

Another point, I am not sure how up to the minute I am on the  details, but I 
understood that the high bid on the Etter's Main Mass West stone  was at 
$30,000.  If that holds up for a sale, that would be $16.67 per  gram.  If it was 
cut into slices, that would run the cost up to $22 per  gram. (My cutter just 
informed me privately that my losses were at 24% for the  cutting).

If the buyers are paying that as a field price, then what is it  worth 
retail?  In slices, they would probably hope to make 50% to 100% mark  up I would 
think.  So why does that make my full slices at $37.50 so  "clinically insane?"  
  And, there is no guarantee that the Main  Mass would get sliced up.  Maybe 
my slices will be the only big ones ever  available?  Then might $37.50 be a 
bargain?

And I don't need to  remind you that a 3 gram oriented 100% crusted stone, 
found before the rains  really should be worth more per gram than a 1,800 gram 
whole stone (even though  it is the current main mass found before the rains as 
well). 

As I  warned, this could get deep.

Steve Arnold
#1,  Arkansas





In a message dated 4/2/2009 9:12:48 P.M. Central  Daylight Time, 
MeteorHntr at aol.com writes:
Hello Jason,

I have a  feeling this is  going to get deep.

You are a collector that likes  to buy things as cheap  as you can, intending 
to never sell your  collection ever, and as such, your only  concern is to 
get 
as much good  stuff as cheap as you can.  You don't care  at all what your  
collection might be worth in dollar figures now or at anytime  in the  future.

I on the other hand am a dealer, that doesn't collect, and   as such I like 
to 
sell things so that I can make as much profit as I  can.   Let me point out 
that selling a few specimens at a high  price and not selling  many of the 
remaining specimens in my inventory  usually is not a clear  definition of 
making the 
most possible.   Neither is selling all I have in  24 hours at a low price 
just to get  the most cash quickly.  

For  both of us to agree on the  forthcoming issues is going to be hard, if 
not  impossible.  So my  goal is not going to be to try to change your  mind. 
 I 
will be  happy to simply present my challege to your comment that  your  
specimens only "Cost" you $12/g compared to the "clinically insane"  prices  
you 
suggest $50 to $100/g is that are being charged by me  and  others.

First off, my prices have ranges from a base of $35/g  up to  $105/g.  

Here is my publicly presented table of  values:

Base  Price $35/g
Found BEFORE THE RAIN +$15/g
Under  5     +$20/g
Under 10  +$15/g
Under 20   +$10/g
Under 30   +$5/g
100% crusted   +$10/g
Oriented   +$25/g

So a  35g stone, that is not  completed crusted, not oriented, found after 
the 
rains, I  would value  that at: $35/g x 35g = $1,225

Also, a 3g 100% crusted and  oriented  stone, found before the rains would be 
valued by me at $105/g x 3g =   $315

My full slices of the large stone I have been selling at   $37.50/g.  That is 
after close to 19% saw losses on the cut portion  and  costs of having it cut 
on a wire saw. 

Now, when I set  those prices it  was early in the game, but to be honest, I 
think it is  still a good price  structure that takes quality into the  
equation.

This is where I differ  from many others, and where I  differ from you, 
Jason. 
I feel the cost of  acquiring meteorites has NO  bearing on their values at 
all.  Or at least it   shouldn't.

I think Supply and Demand should have bearing on the   values.

Now, if you don't want to sell your finds, no matter how   
easy/hard/cheap/costly they were to for you to obtain, then that plays into  
the  supply factor.

I acquired, personally and with the help of some  of my  friends 78 specimens 
so far.  I, on the other hand, am  willing to sell what  I have. So that too 
adds to the supply  factor.

What about the demand  side?  

You are correct  that much of the demand has been satisfied  with people 
going 
to West  and finding specimens themselves.  I have one  customer that has  
taken 6 trips from the Dallas area to hunt at West, not  finding  anything, 
so they 
came to me and paid my retail prices for some.    

There are previous collectors who have purchased from me as well as  a  
prominent Texas University collection as well as purchases from the  
Smithsonian  
from me at my retail prices.   There have also  been local Texans that  
haven't 
purchased a meteorite before this that  have bought from me.  Geoff  Notkin 
has 
published a story about  the event that has generated some sales for  me as 
well.

Geoff and I  are going to be on a nationwide TV show of our  own in a month 
on 
the  Science Channel, that will generate tens of thousands if  not more  
visitors to various different web sites featuring some of my West   specimens 
for 
sale. Considering that this show very well might rerun over  100  times in 
the 
U.S. not including any other showings elsewhere on  the globe, the  demand 
side of 
the equation is, to say the least, is in  flux right now.  

Future stories in nationwide periodicals will only  help build  demand.

In fact, we only need a teeny tiny fraction of  one percent of the  viewers 
of 
the TV show to come to one of our sites,  and from those visitors, we  only 
need a teeny tiny fraction of 1% to  want a West meteorite or a part slice  
of 
one of my West specimens, and  I will sell out.  I expect I will sell out  at 
my 
prices, and that  is why I have set them there and that I am keeping them   
there.

In fact, if anyone has some extra West specimens you would  like to  sell, 
contact me off list as I might want to be a buyer,  especially if the  demand 
for 
them spikes as it could in the next month  or so and I sell out of  what 
relatively little I have  left.

Also, I hunted for 27 days straight,  not for only a  week.  Again, not that 
it matters, because it could have  taken me  1 day or 5,000 days to find my 
bounty, it still does not change the   value of the rocks, they are worth 
what they 
are worth irrespective of what  it  takes me to find them.  Just as your 
finds 
are not for sale no  matter how  many or how few you found. 

Also, because of some  complicated details, of  which I won't go into here, I 
don't own all 78  specimens 100%.  Some of my  profit from the sales goes to 
others  and it is not all for me to keep.   Again, this doesn't matter  
either.  

A one ounce gold nugget is  still worth $1,000 no  matter who finds it or how 
long it takes for them to find   it.

Now, the challenge comes when collector-dealers assign personal   values to 
the rocks based on what they have into them.  They are  perfectly  free to 
participate and influence the supply AND demand  factors at the same time  if 
they 
want by doing that.  

If  someone, left unnamed, went to a  fall site in Georgia and found a single 
 
10 gram stone, would they be able to  justify to the world that $6,000  in 
legal bills on top of all their other  expenses would justify a  $800/g price?

No.

Now, THEY as collectors  might value it at  $800/g as that is what it cost 
them, but would anyone  else?   Probably not.  So if they valued it and 
priced it 
at $800/g, it   would basically be off the market, and it would stay in their 
personal   collection.

Jason, you and anyone that wants a copy of my West  inventory  list, that 
includes the prices of the first 69 specimens I  have sold AND not  sold, you 
can 
do the math on what has been made by  me so far.  Understand  that most of my 
inventory comes not from  my personal efforts, but also the  efforts of 12 
other 
people that I  share ownership with, some who have put in  over 10 man days 
at 
the  site.

Again, that doesn't matter.  If it  took 5,000 people 100  man hours each to 
find what I have, it still would not  change the  value of what I have.  That 
is 
for the marketplace to decide,  not  my personal man hours invested to decide.

Also, the fact that it  has  been 6 years since I have hunted a fresh 
strewnfield (Park Forest)  do I get to  count all those hours of waiting for 
a new fall 
to  calculate into the value of  the rocks?  Nope.  It doesn't  matter.

As stated before, my goal  isn't to change your mind.   And I am sure I 
haven't.  I don't look at  this from a socialist  point of view but from a 
capitalist 
point of view.  I  am not  entitled to get paid just because I spent money 
and 
time looking, but   rather I am entitled to get paid on what I find AND what 
I 
am able to  market,  based on what the marketplace is willing to pay.

I am an  entrepreneur not  a government employee.

That is my story, and I am  sticking to  it.

Steve Arnold
Arkansas



In a  message dated 4/2/2009  7:46:09 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
meteoritekid at gmail.com  writes:
Steve,

> Remind us all  what weights you found and how much  the trip  cost you and  
your
> dad, and the cost of the time your dad  had to invest in  lost  Medical 
Doctor
> wages to find what you guys   found?  OK, leave out of the  formula what 
your
> dad's time  is  worth, that is none of our business.  Why  don't you  just  
figure
> your time invested as being worth $15/hour, for  the total   cost.

4.2g, 6.2g plus a 0.2g chip, 175.4g, and  2.4g.

- A total  weight about on par with what I saw other people  had found
in a week or so of  hunting about a month ago, when there were  more
stones being found.   True, our weights aren't typical, but I  can only
ascribe that to the fact  that 1) I'm good at seeing smaller  stones,
and that 2) we spent some time  farther down the strewn-field,  hoping
to come across places people hadn't  looked.

Lost doctor's  wages?  Peter had that time scheduled as time  off for my
spring  break as of several months ago.  Nothing was cancelled  or
moved,  his month had a standard number of hours.

But how much did  you lose  in wages?  This is really relevant to my
point down  below...kind  of a side note here.

> Now, recalculate what your cost  per gram  would have been if you  didn't 
find
> your big rock, as few   hunters were as lucky as you were in finding  such 
a 
big
>   rock.

Other hunters generally found more meteorites in the 10-100g   range,
though the average, from what I've read, was between ~20g and   ~40g.
The average weight of the stones we found was 47g, not counting   the
chip as a separate stone, which is only slightly above average,   so
your point is kind of moot.  Yes we found one big one, but,   on
average, our finds were normal.

> Also, break down what it  cost  YOU for your finds per  gram and break down
> what price  per gram  your dad paid for all of HIS  grammage of rocks he  
found, if
> you  would for us?

It was both of us, that was  the haul.  I used the  total cost of the
trip for the pair of us  and the total 'grammage' of our  finds in my
calculation.

> By  the way, how much are  you  willing to sell some of your specimens  for?
> Would you sell them  for  double your cost, for a not so  "clinically 
insane"
> price of  say  maybe $24/g?   At  that price, I might be a   buyer.

We're collectors, not dealers  - you know that.

But you're  asking a question which raises some  interesting issues.
While the initial  story of "no one has stones  they're willing to sell"
has passed, many hunters  and collectors  already went and found their
own stones.  And while a  collector  who didn't go might be sitting
there saying 'crap, no one's  selling,' I  think it might also be
interesting to note that demand should be   seriously down for a fall
that was accessible to most american collectors  who  were willing to
take the time to go and find their own  stone.
Many of the  people who would have bought from dealers have  merely gone
and found their  own, and the people who didn't...well, it's  a new
fall, an L6, and it's  really nothing special in terms of  appearance or
science.  Of course, it  looks like a new fall, which  usually retail
for, $10-30ish per gram, Park  Forest raising the bar  there.  Even
historic falls usually go for  $10-15/g.
In fact, I  believe I can recall a nice 1/2 end cut of Leedey  you
personally sold  on ebay a few months back for a little less than  $10
per  gram.

At the same time, I find it odd that you, who walked  away  with over
2kg of material, think it prudent to charge $65/g, give or   take.
That's $120,000.  Not bad for a few week's worth of  meteorite  hunting,
especially if your costs were in the $100,000  range.  Our trip  wound
up costing us around $2,000, because we  booked our flights the  night
before.  And since the flights took  up the vast majority of  that,
well, it makes things interesting.   I've done some numbers.   Had we
stayed a full week extra and found  the same amount of meteorites  (that
we had found in the previous *five*  days), it would have cost us  about
$500-600 more, and the price per  gram of our finds would have  come
down to about $7/g.
But you came  away with 2kg.  If you spent  the full amount that we did
for the  two of us, on yourself only, you paid  $1/g.  If you spent
$4,000,  you spent $2/g.  If you somehow managed  to spend $10,000 on
your  trip, well - you would only need to sell 150 grams  of material at
your  price of $65/g to cover your costs.
You've asked some  pretty 'off'  questions, so here are a few of my own
- how much of your stock  have  you sold, and how much money have   you
made?

Regards,
Jason
______________________________________________
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______________________________________________   

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From mikewren at gilanet.com  Fri Apr  3 00:13:55 2009
From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 21:13:55 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Some thoughts on Hunting in West,
	Texas and private property....
Message-ID: <CA57B42A-47FD-45E3-88CE-F3076555BB08@gilanet.com>

Hello All,

You can simply assume that what does not belong to you, belongs to  
someone else. Private property is obvious. If it is not yours, it  
belongs to someone else. Getting permission to hunt meteorites on  
other people's property is an absolute must. Especially, in places  
like West, Texas.

When my son and I first arrived in West, Texas, the first thing we saw  
was Mike Farmer coming out of one of the local bakery shops. We  
stopped and said hello. I asked him if he had found any stones and if  
I could see one. He showed me a real pretty ~30 gram one. We all went  
in and had coffee and kolanches and talked some. I then told my son it  
was time to go find this strewn field. My son Chris, said why don't  
you just ask Mike where they are finding stones. I said we could, but  
I want you to see how this is done from scratch, besides we might find  
something out that they don't already know. So we headed out blindly  
and we started to knock on doors and talk to people.

It did not take too long (about 6 hours) to start to understand the  
lay of the land and where some of the strewn field might be located.  
We came upon Mr. Enders farm and saw him and his son driving over to  
their barn. His place really looked good for hunting and we really  
wanted to talk to him. I went up to his truck and introduced myself to  
him and told him what I wanted.  At first, he was not wanting to talk  
to me and said he was not wanting any more "Meteorite People" on his  
property. He was afraid of all of these strangers roaming his property  
and afraid on being sued. We talked for a while and I suggested that  
maybe my son and I could hunt for the day and that we were really  
excited to be hunting meteorites and would appreciate the chance to  
hunt his land.  I told him that to me it was worth $50.00 per day per  
person to hunt.  I would give him a $100.00 up front for my son and  
me, for today's hunting. He asked me what these things were worth and  
for the next several hours we talked about meteorites, hunting, places  
I have been, what they are worth, why they are important, etc, etc.  I  
told him that it was way too early to know what this particular fall  
was going to be worth, but probably more than $20.00 per gram.  I told  
him I would pay between $3.00 to $5.00 per gram and $100.00 per day  
for Chris and I to hunt. He accepted.  He told me he let some other  
folks hunt for a day, but they offered him only a $1.00 per gram and  
no base fee for the day. I told him that was way to low. I said, this  
is your land and just to be able to hunt meteorites on it is worth  
more than that to me.  He asked me if I wanted him to keep the other  
hunters off his place since I was "leasing" or paying for hunting  
rights. I asked him how much land he had and he said 500 acres! I said  
there was no way my son and I could hunt all that land. I told him a  
lot of these hunters came from far away and that they would appreciate  
a place to hunt that had good potential. I told him to keep to the  
base fee of $50.00 per person and around $3.00 per gram, but he should  
maybe be flexible with all and do a deal with each person as he saw  
fit. He thanked me for letting him know what was going on and Mr  
Enders gates were know open for business! Over 70 people searched his  
land and they keep searching and finding stones. Over 100 individuals  
have come off his land and his place is huge and there is no doubt   
more there on his property.

On days when my son and I did pretty good I always gave him a bonus  
above our agreed amounts. We had fun and we paid to play.  Also, Mr  
Enders knows  my ebay store and knows what I get for my West pieces,  
and regardless I am welcome back anytime!

Mr Enders called me the other day and thanked me. He said he has done  
real well and appreciated how I helped him use his ranch to make money  
in these hard times.

Some things....

* Always get permission to hunt on private property.

* In order to get permission, be polite, kind, respectful and take  
time to do a little educating about meteorites.

* There are dollars $$$ involved with meteorites, so maybe share some  
of this in whatever way works with the private land owners.

* $25.00, $50.00 or $100.00 per day to hunt potentially meteorite  
laden ground is a small price to pay if you love hunting. Yes, of  
course, if you can do it for free and the owner of the land does not  
care about a fee, well I guess that is fine too.

* Work out some understanding about value and what you might be able  
to pay. Believe me, you would hate to find a 5 kilo meteorite and not  
have some discussion ahead of time about how you are going to handle  
this with the land owner.

* Respect people's wishes if they don't want you on their land.

* If you are traveling with several meteorite hunters, maybe only have  
one person go to the door to begin talks. Think about it, after  
hearing a knock, you come to the door of your quiet farm house,  and  
there are 3 or 4 guys standing on your porch???

* If you are in Bush country, don't pull up with an Obama sticker on  
your car!

* Don't bring your dog meteorite hunting-dog's chase livestock.

* Assure the land owner that your responsible. You will close gates if  
closed. You will not damage fences. You will stay away from  
livestock.  You will NOT sue him or her if you get hurt.

* After you have a relationship with one landowner, maybe you can ask  
them to call their neighbors and vouch for you. This opened up several  
closed properties to my son and I.  These people don't know me, but  
they sure as heck know the land owner and have for 30 years! Make  
friends and allies.

* Stay off of planted fields. Dude, if you walked on my plants in my  
garden-I would throw a rock at you!

* Get Permission. Be respectful. Share in the riches $$$. Also, always  
(In The Nininger tradition) take time to teach about the wonderful and  
exciting world of meteoritics!


Some Thoughts...

Michael Cottingham


From carothersdl at gmail.com  Fri Apr  3 00:37:07 2009
From: carothersdl at gmail.com (dave carothers)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 00:37:07 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] -2 arrested update (Dude-- Where's My
	Caredition)
References: <d0a.4811aee6.3706d061@aol.com>
Message-ID: <D017D41ADC424098AD22DEA82302B912@your291etg47cr>

Steve,

You asked:  "So why do you still think that I think he OWES me an 
explanation?"

As I stated in my last post, it comes from comments like "Often times, 
people have very valid objections.  Other times, they don't." or "Sometimes 
they will say they don't want you to hunt because 23 years ago, a fisherman 
left a gate open and some cows got out.  But usually that isn't a valid 
reason for never letting anyone ever come on their land again."  Another 
comment you made regarding the issue of asking to search a property was: 
"Granted, people lie." Well, maybe they do, but the point is, so what?  It's 
their property and they don't need to explain past the answer... No.

When you say things like the above, in the context of trying to get 
permission to search a property from a land owner, what is being implied is 
that 1) the person owes you an explanation and 2) if the person does give 
you a reason, that reason must somehow be validated as being reasonable by 
you.

I apologize if I'm reading way too much into this, but I've run into a 
similar situation and maybe that's why I'm sensitive to this. I've had 
people wanting to buy property from me and they just won't take a simple NO! 
for an answer.  They too want to ask the question "Why won't you sell it to 
us".  I'm sorry, but I don't owe them or anyone else an explanation.  Even 
if I did provide an explanation, what then?  They try to tell me why I'm 
"wrong" and should sell to them.  That to me is being arrogant.

One last item.  I did not, nor would I ever say or imply that you were rude 
or that your conversations with land owners are contentious or anything like 
that.  From all accounts, you have a stellar (no pun intended) rep.  I thank 
you too for your courteous replies.

Regards,

Dave

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <MeteorHntr at aol.com>
To: <carothersdl at gmail.com>; <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 10:37 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] -2 arrested update (Dude-- Where's My 
Caredition)


Dave,

You said:

"I thank you for the detailed explanation,  but I still have issue with your
idea that a land owner would owe you an  explanation other than "No" when
asked to search their property."


When I clearly stated in my last post:

"Does he have an  obligation to tell me why he said no?  Of course not.  And
did I even  imply that he was obligated to?  But if you don't ask, often you
don't get  an answer."

*****

So why do you still think that I think he OWES me an  explanation?

I don't think he owes me to let me hunt on his land, but I still ask.

He didn't owe me an explanation, but I still asked for one.

Besides, if someone owes you something, you demand, you don't ask.

I didn't demand anything, I just asked.  I wasn't rude. He wasn't  rude.  He
didn't kick me off his driveway. He didn't even ask me to  leave nor did he
end the conversation.  We had a short, 3 minute talk,  then I left when it 
was
evident he didn't care if meteorites would be  lost.  Maybe if I offered him
$10,000 in exchange for hunting, he might  have become interested.  Then 
again,
if he had a $500,000 "crop" out in the  trees growing, $10,000 for hunting
privileges wouldn't have probably interested  him either.

I didn't waste his whole day, he was doing some work, and he kept working
while I was talking.

Now, maybe someone talked with him before I did and offended him  in such a
way that he was sour to not me personally, but to "meteorite hunters"  in
general.  That could have been the case.  And it was, I would  have loved to 
have
found that out.

But since he didn't say that, or give any reason, I just don't know.

Besides, I ended up hunting on one of his neighbors ground the next day
where we found the 1,673g specimen the day before the rains, so maybe it was 
a
blessing that he said "No," and that he didn't tell me why, and that I 
didn't
overcome his objections?

Then again, I might have changed his mind and I might have found 5 kilo 
rock
on his ground instead.

Who knows?  It is all "water under the bridge", or should I say "rocks 
under
the mud" now.

Steve

**************New Low Prices on Dell Laptops ? Starting at $399
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220433304x1201394525/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubl
eclick.net%2Fclk%3B213540718%3B35046385%3Be) 


From cynapse at charter.net  Fri Apr  3 01:57:07 2009
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2009 00:57:07 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] ECC students study not a meteorite
In-Reply-To: <93aaac890904021745o4e4372er27ecddd779b1ab2b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d06.5051fe79.3706aeaf@aol.com>
	<93aaac890904021745m2d819f3ei1ac2311c01d6aa2f@mail.gmail.com>
	<93aaac890904021745o4e4372er27ecddd779b1ab2b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <u79bt4hc9bhtoooua0nrf3op67tangulp5@4ax.com>

Gotta see the photo.

http://www.rockymounttelegram.com/news/community/ecc-students-study-meteorite-526043.html

ECC students study meteorite

Contributed to the Telegram

Thursday, April 02, 2009

An Edgecombe Community College astronomy class experienced hands-on learning
recently when they analyzed a meteorite found by a local farmer.

Students in Descriptive Astronomy, taught by Rebecca Stamilio, examined a
146-pound meteorite that fell into a local farmer?s field.

He discovered the meteorite when he was plowing his land last year. The big rock
sliced his disk in half.

?There are three classes of meteorites, and we think this is a

stone meteorite,? said Stamilio, who is a physics and industrial trades
instructor at the college. Stone meteorites are the largest group of meteorites,
and they once formed part of the outer crust of a planet or asteroid.

The class measured the meteorite and discussed its different features. 

From mikewren at gilanet.com  Fri Apr  3 01:12:38 2009
From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 22:12:38 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] ECC students study not a meteorite
In-Reply-To: <u79bt4hc9bhtoooua0nrf3op67tangulp5@4ax.com>
References: <d06.5051fe79.3706aeaf@aol.com>
	<93aaac890904021745m2d819f3ei1ac2311c01d6aa2f@mail.gmail.com>
	<93aaac890904021745o4e4372er27ecddd779b1ab2b@mail.gmail.com>
	<u79bt4hc9bhtoooua0nrf3op67tangulp5@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <601F3720-A089-4FEC-870D-205A421BEF12@gilanet.com>

Does a chondrite have that many wholes in it?? Hard to see in photo,  
but it does not remind me of any meteorite?

Michael
On Apr 2, 2009, at 10:57 PM, Darren Garrison wrote:

> Gotta see the photo.
>
> http://www.rockymounttelegram.com/news/community/ecc-students-study-meteorite-526043.html
>
> ECC students study meteorite
>
> Contributed to the Telegram
>
> Thursday, April 02, 2009
>
> An Edgecombe Community College astronomy class experienced hands-on  
> learning
> recently when they analyzed a meteorite found by a local farmer.
>
> Students in Descriptive Astronomy, taught by Rebecca Stamilio,  
> examined a
> 146-pound meteorite that fell into a local farmer?s field.
>
> He discovered the meteorite when he was plowing his land last year.  
> The big rock
> sliced his disk in half.
>
> ?There are three classes of meteorites, and we think this is a
>
> stone meteorite,? said Stamilio, who is a physics and industrial  
> trades
> instructor at the college. Stone meteorites are the largest group of  
> meteorites,
> and they once formed part of the outer crust of a planet or asteroid.
>
> The class measured the meteorite and discussed its different features.
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


From mike.chamberlain at comcast.net  Fri Apr  3 01:17:30 2009
From: mike.chamberlain at comcast.net (Michael Chamberlain)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 22:17:30 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold ofChicago...wasnwa
	1794
References: <C5F9CF10.2517%mlblood@cox.net>
Message-ID: <47B240B97FD94A59B338B9DF121F2F69@mikeamt3pxapcq>

I'm sorry, I'm just a small time collect... I've been a list member for many 
years,  No hunter or scientist, I'm a geologist.
I've been to Tucson for the last 10 years.  I've bought alot of 
meteoritesover the last many years,  I've enjoyed the personal list banter 
between Mateo and Farmer, Chicago Steve, et. al.and the input from all the 
researchers, but Steve's last "April Fool's" is beyond the pale.  Why is it 
every month after Tucson, Steve puts out some tale of doom and dispair? 
Last year it was his wife leaving him if he didn't sell some (all!!)?

 Like I said, I'm a small time collector, I've visited all the seller's at 
Tucson.  This year I actually was at Anne Black and Nokins  suite when  who 
do you think I'm standing next to but Chicago Steve!  He says to the in the 
crowd "I'm Steve Arnold, one of the two". and I say "oh, you're Chicago 
Steve"  He looks at me and says  Who are you?  And I say, nobody, just know 
you from the List!  Steve is a bafooon!! Thanks!  Even though may wife 
thinks Farmer is a pompas ass (me too, in a nice way).  I'm happy she can go 
with me to Tucson.  Steve...Why make an ass out of yourself?

   ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michael Blood" <mlblood at cox.net>
To: "Erik Fisler" <erikfwebb at msn.com>; "Meteorite List" 
<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 2:10 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold ofChicago...wasnwa 
1794


My, my, my.
        What an interesting disgusting....er, I mean
Discussion.......
        Michael


> From: Erik Fisler <erikfwebb at msn.com>
> Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 00:15:07 -0700
> To: Meteorite List <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold 
> ofChicago...wasnwa
> 1794
>
>
> you know what I meant  Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 00:13:01 -0700
>> From: meteoritekid at gmail.com
>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold 
>> ofChicago...wasnwa
>> 1794
>>
>> Erik,
>> You just told me not to stand up for what I believe in.
>> So you're telling me to stop standing up for what I believe in,
>> because, you say, telling people to not stand up for what they believe
>> in - doing that is wrong.
>> Of course, the implications of your statement are interesting. If we
>> all followed that logic, whoever spoke first in any situation would be
>> simply infallible. Anyone who disagreed, standing up for what they
>> believed in, would be telling someone that they couldn't believe what
>> they wanted to. Wouldn't that be an interesting world.
>> At any rate, Erik, I say they have the right to block Steve, just as
>> Steve has the right to post. In fact, by your own reasoning, because
>> Steve must have sent a message to the list before someone criticized
>> him for doing so (logic), the people who harass him are really just
>> keeping (or *trying* to keep) Steve from 'standing up for what he
>> believes in.'
>> So they're still the wrong ones by your reasoning, because he must
>> have preceded his naysayers. I'm advocating free speech in the sense
>> that I believe that these people are merely being hypocritical.
>> They've been annoying the lot of us for ten years trying to get him to
>> stop. I'm saying that they should stop sending me messages, because I
>> don't like their insults and nasty messages.
>> Furthermore, they could accomplish their collective goal of abolishing
>> Steve from their inboxes by simply blocking him. It seems obvious to
>> me, at this juncture, that they really just like harassing someone in
>> public and being able to get away with it. I'm sure you've met some
>> bullies in your time - welcome to the meteorite list.
>> Jason
>>
>> P.S. It also seems to me that your message lacks 'valor.'
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 11:55 PM, Erik Fisler wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Alright Jason, you have stated your opinion now respectfully drop it,
>>> or continue to say the same thing over and over in different words...
>>>
>>> Standing up for what you believe is important and no one should ever
>>> listen to anyone who says to not even bother to stand up for what they
>>> believe or to give up. That is WRONG.
>>>
>>> [Erik]
>>>
>>>
>>>> Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 23:18:06 -0700
>>>> From: meteoritekid at gmail.com
>>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold
>>>> ofChicago...wasnwa 1794
>>>>
>>>> Bill,
>>>> I have never asked for, nor received one of his freebies, though I
>>>> will admit to having purchased meteorites from him at more than
>>>> reasonable prices. But you apparently have a problem with someone
>>>> giving away meteorites on a regular basis, and with someone who
>>>> doesn't use a sense of business typical of most meteorite dealers.
>>>>
>>>> But that's my point, really.
>>>>
>>>> I've been here, on this list, for eleven years, and, to be perfectly
>>>> frank, you're the problem, not him. He's not the person who turns
>>>> people away from the hobby; it's mean-spirited people like you who
>>>> make others feel unwelcome.
>>>> His posts have never been derogatory. Ill-conceived, maybe. Lacking
>>>> foresight, probably in many cases.
>>>> - But malevolent, like yours, never.
>>>>
>>>> Many people have many things to thank him for, including great deals
>>>> and free space rocks for some of the less-well-off collectors.
>>>> But he posts too many messages for you. I'll say it again - third
>>>> time's the charm, right?
>>>> Block him if you have an issue. I know for a fact that Hotmail has
>>>> that function.
>>>>
>>>> I actually disagree with Mark on this; the list really hasn't changed
>>>> all that much in the time I've been here. A number of old-timers have
>>>> moved on, and there -are- a much greater number of newcomers has
>>>> arrived in the past few years, but the same old bickering goes on, and
>>>> on, and on. You're just the next person to take up the anti-Steve
>>>> mantle. If you look back in the archives, that's something you will
>>>> actually find.
>>>>
>>>> If the list is suffering, it's not from him; he's been a constant here
>>>> for a decade, and this list has yet to collapse in upon itself. The
>>>> list remains *the* list, and I've yet to hear of someone actually
>>>> leaving the list because of Steve. If they have, well, I'm sad that
>>>> they didn't find the block button sooner. If you look back at the
>>>> archives, people typically leave because of this godawful bickering.
>>>> The stuff you're doing. The only reason I feel it might do some good
>>>> is because it really has been getting worse lately - and I figure it
>>>> might be worth pointing out that block function to you lot.
>>>>
>>>> Elton's argument really is ridiculous, in retrospect. He likely
>>>> bought something from Steve at a rock-bottom price and is now
>>>> harassing him, having just benefitted from Steve's...unorthodox
>>>> business techniques. Glaringly hypocritical, and talk about good
>>>> faith. As though he really expected Steve to leave anyways. If he
>>>> did, well, I think it shows something about his own intelligence.
>>>>
>>>> Jason
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 10:54 PM, bill kies wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Good Spirit? Never Derogatory? Generally meteorite related? Are you
>>>>> talking about sSteve? You must be one of his freebie zombies or 
>>>>> waiting
>>>>> like so many others to benefit from his erratic business sense. Please 
>>>>> do
>>>>> a history check and drop the subject.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----------------------------------------
>>>>>> Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 22:34:07 -0700
>>>>>> From: meteoritekid at gmail.com
>>>>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold
>>>>>> ofChicago...wasnwa 1794
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bill,
>>>>>> You are breaking list policy as much as he is in posting as you do, 
>>>>>> if
>>>>>> not more. His posts do break the suggested limit for posts in a given
>>>>>> time period, but they are always in good spirit, never derogatory, 
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> are generally meteorite-related. Get off your high-horses and accept
>>>>>> the fact that no matter how wrong he is, you're stooping to below his
>>>>>> level in posting as you do. If you wanted Art to take action, you
>>>>>> should have messaged him, not me. I don't think I'm wrong in assuming
>>>>>> that the rest of the folks out there share that sentiment. If we had
>>>>>> a problem with Steve, we would have blocked him. As could you. The
>>>>>> fact that you haven't seems to suggest that you like the opportunity
>>>>>> to harass him.
>>>>>> And you call him annoying.
>>>>>> I won't criticize or support him; I personally don't care for or
>>>>>> dislike his messages. They're there, and your posts aren't going to
>>>>>> change that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You're the one with the ability to change, to take the higher road.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mark,
>>>>>> I know, but I think it's obvious enough, almost a decade down the
>>>>>> line, that things are not going to change.
>>>>>> This has been going on for, well, combine world the first and second
>>>>>> world wars. That's about how long.
>>>>>> Longer than the occupation of Iraq, and half the length of the 
>>>>>> Vietnam
>>>>>> War.
>>>>>> You'd think that, at some point, people would begin to understand the
>>>>>> futility of their own actions.
>>>>>> And at some point, I would think it prudent for certain people to
>>>>>> realize that the effort they take to spearhead this effort against 
>>>>>> him
>>>>>> is really done for the sake of hundreds of people who couldn't care
>>>>>> less. And the level to which they take action against him for being,
>>>>>> what amounts to at worst, a simpleton, is beyond me. Litigiousness in
>>>>>> the sense Elton seems to be advocating is, in my mind, much worse 
>>>>>> than
>>>>>> anything Steve has ever done - and, given the past, considerably 
>>>>>> worse
>>>>>> than what he seems capable of doing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jason
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 10:00 PM, Mark Grossman wrote:
>>>>>>> Without taking any sides pro or con re the particulars of Steve's
>>>>>>> actions:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There's a brick wall there, and no matter how long you persist in
>>>>>>>> throwing yourselves against it, it's not budging, regardless of how
>>>>>>>> right (or wrong) you are in doing so. You're not going to change 
>>>>>>>> him,
>>>>>>>> or the situation in general.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What a sad state of affairs Jason has described regarding the status 
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> biggest meteorite list in the world - no matter which side of the 
>>>>>>> fence
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>> are on.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mark Grossman
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jason Utas"
>>>>>>> To: "Meteorite-list"
>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 12:43 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold
>>>>>>> ofChicago...wasnwa
>>>>>>> 1794
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hola,
>>>>>>>> I would again like to point out that, even though his posts may be
>>>>>>>> repetitive and annoying to some - maybe even most - of the
>>>>>>>> list-members who have yet to block him (you might give it a try if
>>>>>>>> you're so annoyed), well, the simple fact of the matter is that a
>>>>>>>> single one of his posts just elicited four utterly negative 
>>>>>>>> responses.
>>>>>>>> I *still* find it hypocritical that you lot insist on spamming more
>>>>>>>> than he does. I recall saying at least a few years ago - you're not
>>>>>>>> going to stop him, and going about it the way you are - or any way,
>>>>>>>> really, isn't going to do anything.
>>>>>>>> I was apparently right.
>>>>>>>> There's a brick wall there, and no matter how long you persist in
>>>>>>>> throwing yourselves against it, it's not budging, regardless of how
>>>>>>>> right (or wrong) you are in doing so. You're not going to change 
>>>>>>>> him,
>>>>>>>> or the situation in general. Why not give the rest of us a bit of a
>>>>>>>> respite from the constant haranguing and leave him be, eh? One 
>>>>>>>> fifth
>>>>>>>> the spam would be nice.
>>>>>>>> Jason
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 9:26 PM, bill kies
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Mr. Tate,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> At a glance this situation might look silly but April 1st or not,
>>>>>>>>> sSteve
>>>>>>>>> has been entertaining himself at the expense of this list for 
>>>>>>>>> almost a
>>>>>>>>> decade. People can only tolerate so much. We, list members, have
>>>>>>>>> managed the
>>>>>>>>> bad taste and poor humor well enough. Don't rush to judgement 
>>>>>>>>> unless
>>>>>>>>> you've
>>>>>>>>> read the archives extensively and understand what this fellow is 
>>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>>> about.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Quick access to your favorite MSN content and Windows Live with
>>>>>>>>> Internet
>>>>>>>>> Explorer 8.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B
>>>>>>>>> 037MSN55C0701A
>>>>>>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>>>>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>>>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
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>>>>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
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>>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>>> Rediscover Hotmail?: Get quick friend updates right in your inbox.
>>>>> http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_U
>>>>> pdates1_042009
>>>> ______________________________________________
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>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
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From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Fri Apr  3 02:23:49 2009
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 23:23:49 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] -2 arrested update (Dude-- Where's
	My	Caredition)
In-Reply-To: <01B04A4732924E61B049E4C8682F08B4@your291etg47cr>
References: <c18.51b0efca.37069eab@aol.com>
	<01B04A4732924E61B049E4C8682F08B4@your291etg47cr>
Message-ID: <49D5AB75.4090309@meteoritesusa.com>

Hello all,

Dave, In response to your comment.
-----------------------------
"If you own the property, you have no obligation to explain why you 
don't want someone on your property and you sure don't have to justify 
or validate any reason if you decide to provide more than a "NO!" 
answer. ..I agree that conversation is useful, but can you also see that 
pushing the envelope and pressing soneone for a "reason" and not to say 
that you would actually do this, but potentially argue the validity of 
the "reason" would surely sour any land owner..."
-----------------------------

I agree you should respect the landowners wishes, but should everyone 
take the first "NO" for the final answer and walk away out of respect 
for their decision and leave it at that? If that were the case half the 
businesses in the world would fail. It's not just about respect, this is 
a matter of conscience and if it matters to you so much then simply 
don't ask the question. To others it isn't as "BIG" an issue to ask 
questions of anyone regardless of stature. No disrespect intended. Just 
my opinion.

Jason, in response to your comment.
--------------------------------------------
"..If you somehow managed to spend $10,000 on your trip, well - you 
would only need to sell 150 grams of material at your price of $65/g to 
cover your costs. You've asked some pretty 'off' questions, so here are 
a few of my own - how much of your stock have you sold, and how much 
money have you made?.."
--------------------------------------------

I would say you are a smart kid and I'm impressed with your enthusiasm. 
However I disagree with your ideas on business. It's not just about 
simply recovering costs. It's about making a living and growing the 
business at the same time. And if I may be so bold and use the word 
profit, which seems to be the "bad" word in this whole ethics debate. If 
you ever had to live on your own "and" run a business at the same time, 
and support a family, mortgage, car payments, groceries, and personal 
bills you would understand the importance of being able to not only 
cover your bills but your business expenses as well as grow your 
company. To grow your business a good profit must be made.

In business to charge the highest price a market will bear is directly 
related to supply and demand. If a product is plentiful that products 
price is naturally lower than if the product in question were less 
available. Even so, if the market will support $100/g for a particular 
product that price is a "fair market price".  Don't you have an X-Box 
360? You remember how high the cost was when they first came out? Around 
$500+ if I remember right. Now you can buy them for around $200 a 
decrease of 60%.

That's a fair market price and a good example of a market finding a 
natural balance right? My point is when a product is first available 
that products price regardless of what it is will be determined by 
demand and what people are "willing" to pay to get it. How many parents 
stood in line at the local Wal-Mart and Best Buy to purchase the first 
release of the latest "toy" whether it be an X-Box, PS3, Plasma TV, or 
Tickle Me Elmo.

It's reasonable to expect anyone to charge what they feel is a fair 
price. It's again is about conscience and perceived fairness. Business 
is about profit whether you agree or not. You grow a business by 
reinvesting a portion of that profit back into a company, so you need to 
have a larger profit to grow a smaller business. Larger companies 
needn't have larger profits because they compensate the lower retail 
price with buying power that results in lower wholesale costs to them.

Business ethics and meteorite hunting ethics go hand in hand when a 
dealer is in the field. He must be respectful of the landowners yet pay 
a fair market price. But don't forget he must be able to afford that 
price as well. $10/g might be high for someone where $20/g might be a 
good price for others.

If the supplier (landowner) believes he or she received a good price and 
was treated fairly then that's good for business. If you paid a low 
enough price for any given product to in turn sell at a higher price and 
make a good profit isn't that good business?  I wonder what the margins 
were for the X-Box. Costs for businesses are higher at the opening bell. 
At the end of the day the free market will find a balance based on 
supply and demand.

I ask anyone to fairly and honestly answer this question. If you have 
investments in the market (401K etc.) wouldn't you want those 
investments to give you the highest return possible? You don't have to 
be a businessperson to understand the concept of profit. When investing 
in stocks, bonds, CDs, funds, your annual % yield is your profit. If you 
have a problem with higher prices don't pay them and wait for the market 
to stabilize. It always does.

As for the ethics of hunting on private land. Check local laws. And 
never hunt on private land without permission. I believe Mike and Sonny, 
and take them at their word the they were unaware they were on private 
land, and had they suspected it might be private property I would think 
they wouldn't have been there in the first place. If the punishment fits 
the crime, then I think a slap on the wrist is needed, but a $2000+ fine 
and being banned from the county? I think that was more editorial and 
artistic license I think by the paper and strictness by the judge. I 
agree something seems a bit fishy as Steve says. It doesn't sound right 
or make sense why the punishment was so harsh. I grew up in the south 
(Florida not 250+ miles from Augusta) and am familiar with the type of 
private roads described. To me it might be natural to think twice before 
walking down an unmarked road in that area. But out here in the 
southwest it's different. Mike and Sonny didn't do anything that would 
warrant such harsh punishment in my opinion.

Hunting on private land is a privilege not a right. Respect the 
landowners wishes, work with them and they will work with you. Treat the 
landowners fairly and they will most likely reward you with extended 
permission. Who knows, you might just make a new friend. I know we did 
in West, Texas and would not hesitate to invite many of the people we 
met out there over for dinner. We were treated nice by most, and in all 
our dealings out there we came away with new friends and had a great 
adventure.

On a more personal note since I seem to be typing a book here I want to 
say some things and clear the air so to speak. I love meteorites. They 
are my passion and I am fortunate enough to be able to make them a part 
of my life as my career choice. To be able to make a living doing 
something I love is the ultimate reward. The knowledge gained from the 
study of meteorites has changed my life. I never would have guessed I 
would have fallen in love with meteorites such as I have. Many people 
out there in meteorite land don't know me, and I want to say this for 
the record. I have a genuine passion and love for meteorites that is 
topped only by my love for family. To be able to work in the career 
field I am so passionate about is something I am thankful for everyday. 
I have met and hunted with some great people in this business. And 
whether you agree with my opinions or not I will always treat you fairly 
and honestly whether you like it or not. ;)

Regards,
Eric

P.S. I know this is a long email but I feel I'm forgetting to mention 
something, I'm sure you'll remind me. I'm tired, it's 11:20 and I'm 
going to bed. Nite all...


dave carothers wrote:
> Hi Steve,
>
> I'll briefly reply in the same manner...
>
> In a message dated 4/2/2009 7:05 PM
> MeteorHntr at aol.com writes:
>
> Steve said:
>
> Were they actually burglars, or were they just  knocking on her door 
> asking
> to use the phone for their broken down car?
>
> I am sure they were probably burglars.  But my point is, just  because a
> newspaper says something, doesn't make it so.   Almost EVERY  
> meteorite story ever
> published has minor if not major flaws in them.  And  these are not 
> typically
> stories where a reporter's bias could be blamed for the  bad journalism.
> Almost ALL journalism is shotty today.  I just don't  believe anything 
> in print,
> just because it is in print.
>
> Maybe  Sonny and Mike are lucky to only have to pay $2,000.  Maybe 
> they were
> unlucky to have to pay $2,000.  Yes, they might have been shot.  I  
> like and
> respect Sonny and Mike too.  I agree, without asking permission,  they 
> did not
> belong there.
>
>
> *******
> The point I was making about the landowner and the burglers was to 
> illustrate that Sonny and Mike (or anyone in a similar position) 
> doesn't necessarily know the background or local history of the area 
> and what suspicions and fears may be present, hence, my follow-on 
> about the possibility of their getting shot.  The bottom line is I 
> think we all agree that getting permission first in the only way to go.
>
> *******
>
> Steve said:
>
> Thanks for the correction Dave.  I think I have only seen  the phrase 
> "Get
> the hell out of Dodge" in old western movies, usually relating  to 
> Dodge City,
> Kansas.  But arrogant law men are slightly different than  judges 
> sitting on a
> bench with a stenographer recording every statement.   Besides, is 
> Hollywood's
> perspective always the way it really happens in  life?
>
> Of course, IF Mike and Sonny had already made a plea agreement, or  
> simply
> plead guilty (whether they really were guilty or not) throwing 
> themselves at
> the mercy of the court, the judge I presume could puff up his chest 
> and say
> about anything he wanted.
>
> And, I don't mean to imply that if either of them were arrested again, 
> and
> brought before the same judge, that he would not be more strict the 
> second time
> around.  I don't doubt he would throw the book at them.
>
> My preface  was that this story seemed a bit fishy to me, that is all.
>
> Do judges in Georgia run for public election?  "Re-elect Judge  
> Daniel, he's
> tough on space crime!" might be a good campaign  slogan.
>
> *******
>
> I've worked with the law enforcement community for 12 years and while 
> the vast majority are there to serve the public interest, there are 
> those (police, attorneys, and judges) who abuse their positions to the 
> detriment of the public. In my previous post, I guess I was surprised 
> by the fact that you appeard to find it "unusual" for such a comment 
> to be made by a judge.
>
> *******
>
> Steve said:
>
> Dave, with all due respect to you, I like to  engage people in 
> conversations.
> Me doing so with that man had nothing to  do with me being arrogant.  If
> someone has an objection, in sales one  learns to flush out those 
> objections.  If
> you don't know  the objections, then how do you overcome them?  Often 
> times,
> people have very valid objections.  Other times, they  don't.
>
> Unless a person comes out with their excuse, or if one asks, it is  
> hard to
> find out why they object.  Granted, people lie.  Sometimes  they will 
> say they
> don't want you to hunt because 23 years ago, a fisherman left  a gate 
> open and
> some cows got out.  But usually that isn't a valid reason  for never 
> letting
> anyone ever come on their land again.
>
> Yes, of  course, with private property, people don't have to have a 
> reason.
> But  usually they do have a reason.  Unless it is brought out, it is 
> often
> hard  to rationally talk with someone about a solution.
>
> [snip]
>
> *******
>
> I thank you for the detailed explanation, but I still have issue with 
> your idea that a land owner would owe you an explanation other than 
> "No" when asked to search their property.  You state above that  
> "Sometimes they will say they don't want you to hunt because 23 years 
> ago, a fisherman left a gate open and some cows got out.  But usually 
> that isn't a valid reason for never letting anyone ever come on their 
> land again."  That is where the arrogance appears. If someone left a 
> gate open 23 or 50 years ago and the property owner doesn't want 
> anyone else to EVER come on the property again. So be it.  You may not 
> like the reason, but who are you to judge the validity of the 
> decision?  You also state "Often  times, people have very valid 
> objections.  Other times, they don't."  I'll say it again... If you 
> own the property, you have no obligation to explain why you don't want 
> someone on your property and you sure don't have to justify or 
> validate any reason if you decide to provide more than a "NO!" answer.
>
> I agree that conversation is useful, but can you also see that pushing 
> the envelope and pressing soneone for a "reason" and not to say that 
> you would actually do this, but potentially argue the validity of the 
> "reason" would surely sour any land owner.
>
> Regards,
>
> Dave
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


-- 
Regards,
Eric Wichman
Meteorites USA
http://www.meteoritesusa.com
904-236-5394


From erikfwebb at msn.com  Fri Apr  3 02:48:27 2009
From: erikfwebb at msn.com (Erik Fisler)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 23:48:27 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] -2 arrested update (Dude--
	Where's	My	Caredition)
In-Reply-To: <49D5AB75.4090309@meteoritesusa.com>
References: <c18.51b0efca.37069eab@aol.com>
	<01B04A4732924E61B049E4C8682F08B4@your291etg47cr> 
	<49D5AB75.4090309@meteoritesusa.com>
Message-ID: <COL119-W501515D096D067AA528D1A4890@phx.gbl>


Has anyone read "Inherit The Wind"???
 
What if this is something along the lines of
everyone in the town hating meteorite hunters
becuase of their hate for evolution...?
 
[Erik]

----------------------------------------
> Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 23:23:49 -0700
> From: eric at meteoritesusa.com
> To: carothersdl at gmail.com; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] -2 arrested update (Dude-- Where's My Caredition)
>
> Hello all,
>
> Dave, In response to your comment.
> -----------------------------
> "If you own the property, you have no obligation to explain why you
> don't want someone on your property and you sure don't have to justify
> or validate any reason if you decide to provide more than a "NO!"
> answer. ..I agree that conversation is useful, but can you also see that
> pushing the envelope and pressing soneone for a "reason" and not to say
> that you would actually do this, but potentially argue the validity of
> the "reason" would surely sour any land owner..."
> -----------------------------
>
> I agree you should respect the landowners wishes, but should everyone
> take the first "NO" for the final answer and walk away out of respect
> for their decision and leave it at that? If that were the case half the
> businesses in the world would fail. It's not just about respect, this is
> a matter of conscience and if it matters to you so much then simply
> don't ask the question. To others it isn't as "BIG" an issue to ask
> questions of anyone regardless of stature. No disrespect intended. Just
> my opinion.
>
> Jason, in response to your comment.
> --------------------------------------------
> "..If you somehow managed to spend $10,000 on your trip, well - you
> would only need to sell 150 grams of material at your price of $65/g to
> cover your costs. You've asked some pretty 'off' questions, so here are
> a few of my own - how much of your stock have you sold, and how much
> money have you made?.."
> --------------------------------------------
>
> I would say you are a smart kid and I'm impressed with your enthusiasm.
> However I disagree with your ideas on business. It's not just about
> simply recovering costs. It's about making a living and growing the
> business at the same time. And if I may be so bold and use the word
> profit, which seems to be the "bad" word in this whole ethics debate. If
> you ever had to live on your own "and" run a business at the same time,
> and support a family, mortgage, car payments, groceries, and personal
> bills you would understand the importance of being able to not only
> cover your bills but your business expenses as well as grow your
> company. To grow your business a good profit must be made.
>
> In business to charge the highest price a market will bear is directly
> related to supply and demand. If a product is plentiful that products
> price is naturally lower than if the product in question were less
> available. Even so, if the market will support $100/g for a particular
> product that price is a "fair market price". Don't you have an X-Box
> 360? You remember how high the cost was when they first came out? Around
> $500+ if I remember right. Now you can buy them for around $200 a
> decrease of 60%.
>
> That's a fair market price and a good example of a market finding a
> natural balance right? My point is when a product is first available
> that products price regardless of what it is will be determined by
> demand and what people are "willing" to pay to get it. How many parents
> stood in line at the local Wal-Mart and Best Buy to purchase the first
> release of the latest "toy" whether it be an X-Box, PS3, Plasma TV, or
> Tickle Me Elmo.
>
> It's reasonable to expect anyone to charge what they feel is a fair
> price. It's again is about conscience and perceived fairness. Business
> is about profit whether you agree or not. You grow a business by
> reinvesting a portion of that profit back into a company, so you need to
> have a larger profit to grow a smaller business. Larger companies
> needn't have larger profits because they compensate the lower retail
> price with buying power that results in lower wholesale costs to them.
>
> Business ethics and meteorite hunting ethics go hand in hand when a
> dealer is in the field. He must be respectful of the landowners yet pay
> a fair market price. But don't forget he must be able to afford that
> price as well. $10/g might be high for someone where $20/g might be a
> good price for others.
>
> If the supplier (landowner) believes he or she received a good price and
> was treated fairly then that's good for business. If you paid a low
> enough price for any given product to in turn sell at a higher price and
> make a good profit isn't that good business? I wonder what the margins
> were for the X-Box. Costs for businesses are higher at the opening bell.
> At the end of the day the free market will find a balance based on
> supply and demand.
>
> I ask anyone to fairly and honestly answer this question. If you have
> investments in the market (401K etc.) wouldn't you want those
> investments to give you the highest return possible? You don't have to
> be a businessperson to understand the concept of profit. When investing
> in stocks, bonds, CDs, funds, your annual % yield is your profit. If you
> have a problem with higher prices don't pay them and wait for the market
> to stabilize. It always does.
>
> As for the ethics of hunting on private land. Check local laws. And
> never hunt on private land without permission. I believe Mike and Sonny,
> and take them at their word the they were unaware they were on private
> land, and had they suspected it might be private property I would think
> they wouldn't have been there in the first place. If the punishment fits
> the crime, then I think a slap on the wrist is needed, but a $2000+ fine
> and being banned from the county? I think that was more editorial and
> artistic license I think by the paper and strictness by the judge. I
> agree something seems a bit fishy as Steve says. It doesn't sound right
> or make sense why the punishment was so harsh. I grew up in the south
> (Florida not 250+ miles from Augusta) and am familiar with the type of
> private roads described. To me it might be natural to think twice before
> walking down an unmarked road in that area. But out here in the
> southwest it's different. Mike and Sonny didn't do anything that would
> warrant such harsh punishment in my opinion.
>
> Hunting on private land is a privilege not a right. Respect the
> landowners wishes, work with them and they will work with you. Treat the
> landowners fairly and they will most likely reward you with extended
> permission. Who knows, you might just make a new friend. I know we did
> in West, Texas and would not hesitate to invite many of the people we
> met out there over for dinner. We were treated nice by most, and in all
> our dealings out there we came away with new friends and had a great
> adventure.
>
> On a more personal note since I seem to be typing a book here I want to
> say some things and clear the air so to speak. I love meteorites. They
> are my passion and I am fortunate enough to be able to make them a part
> of my life as my career choice. To be able to make a living doing
> something I love is the ultimate reward. The knowledge gained from the
> study of meteorites has changed my life. I never would have guessed I
> would have fallen in love with meteorites such as I have. Many people
> out there in meteorite land don't know me, and I want to say this for
> the record. I have a genuine passion and love for meteorites that is
> topped only by my love for family. To be able to work in the career
> field I am so passionate about is something I am thankful for everyday.
> I have met and hunted with some great people in this business. And
> whether you agree with my opinions or not I will always treat you fairly
> and honestly whether you like it or not. ;)
>
> Regards,
> Eric
>
> P.S. I know this is a long email but I feel I'm forgetting to mention
> something, I'm sure you'll remind me. I'm tired, it's 11:20 and I'm
> going to bed. Nite all...
>
>
> dave carothers wrote:
>> Hi Steve,
>>
>> I'll briefly reply in the same manner...
>>
>> In a message dated 4/2/2009 7:05 PM
>> MeteorHntr at aol.com writes:
>>
>> Steve said:
>>
>> Were they actually burglars, or were they just knocking on her door
>> asking
>> to use the phone for their broken down car?
>>
>> I am sure they were probably burglars. But my point is, just because a
>> newspaper says something, doesn't make it so. Almost EVERY
>> meteorite story ever
>> published has minor if not major flaws in them. And these are not
>> typically
>> stories where a reporter's bias could be blamed for the bad journalism.
>> Almost ALL journalism is shotty today. I just don't believe anything
>> in print,
>> just because it is in print.
>>
>> Maybe Sonny and Mike are lucky to only have to pay $2,000. Maybe
>> they were
>> unlucky to have to pay $2,000. Yes, they might have been shot. I
>> like and
>> respect Sonny and Mike too. I agree, without asking permission, they
>> did not
>> belong there.
>>
>>
>> *******
>> The point I was making about the landowner and the burglers was to
>> illustrate that Sonny and Mike (or anyone in a similar position)
>> doesn't necessarily know the background or local history of the area
>> and what suspicions and fears may be present, hence, my follow-on
>> about the possibility of their getting shot. The bottom line is I
>> think we all agree that getting permission first in the only way to go.
>>
>> *******
>>
>> Steve said:
>>
>> Thanks for the correction Dave. I think I have only seen the phrase
>> "Get
>> the hell out of Dodge" in old western movies, usually relating to
>> Dodge City,
>> Kansas. But arrogant law men are slightly different than judges
>> sitting on a
>> bench with a stenographer recording every statement. Besides, is
>> Hollywood's
>> perspective always the way it really happens in life?
>>
>> Of course, IF Mike and Sonny had already made a plea agreement, or
>> simply
>> plead guilty (whether they really were guilty or not) throwing
>> themselves at
>> the mercy of the court, the judge I presume could puff up his chest
>> and say
>> about anything he wanted.
>>
>> And, I don't mean to imply that if either of them were arrested again,
>> and
>> brought before the same judge, that he would not be more strict the
>> second time
>> around. I don't doubt he would throw the book at them.
>>
>> My preface was that this story seemed a bit fishy to me, that is all.
>>
>> Do judges in Georgia run for public election? "Re-elect Judge
>> Daniel, he's
>> tough on space crime!" might be a good campaign slogan.
>>
>> *******
>>
>> I've worked with the law enforcement community for 12 years and while
>> the vast majority are there to serve the public interest, there are
>> those (police, attorneys, and judges) who abuse their positions to the
>> detriment of the public. In my previous post, I guess I was surprised
>> by the fact that you appeard to find it "unusual" for such a comment
>> to be made by a judge.
>>
>> *******
>>
>> Steve said:
>>
>> Dave, with all due respect to you, I like to engage people in
>> conversations.
>> Me doing so with that man had nothing to do with me being arrogant. If
>> someone has an objection, in sales one learns to flush out those
>> objections. If
>> you don't know the objections, then how do you overcome them? Often
>> times,
>> people have very valid objections. Other times, they don't.
>>
>> Unless a person comes out with their excuse, or if one asks, it is
>> hard to
>> find out why they object. Granted, people lie. Sometimes they will
>> say they
>> don't want you to hunt because 23 years ago, a fisherman left a gate
>> open and
>> some cows got out. But usually that isn't a valid reason for never
>> letting
>> anyone ever come on their land again.
>>
>> Yes, of course, with private property, people don't have to have a
>> reason.
>> But usually they do have a reason. Unless it is brought out, it is
>> often
>> hard to rationally talk with someone about a solution.
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>> *******
>>
>> I thank you for the detailed explanation, but I still have issue with
>> your idea that a land owner would owe you an explanation other than
>> "No" when asked to search their property. You state above that
>> "Sometimes they will say they don't want you to hunt because 23 years
>> ago, a fisherman left a gate open and some cows got out. But usually
>> that isn't a valid reason for never letting anyone ever come on their
>> land again." That is where the arrogance appears. If someone left a
>> gate open 23 or 50 years ago and the property owner doesn't want
>> anyone else to EVER come on the property again. So be it. You may not
>> like the reason, but who are you to judge the validity of the
>> decision? You also state "Often times, people have very valid
>> objections. Other times, they don't." I'll say it again... If you
>> own the property, you have no obligation to explain why you don't want
>> someone on your property and you sure don't have to justify or
>> validate any reason if you decide to provide more than a "NO!" answer.
>>
>> I agree that conversation is useful, but can you also see that pushing
>> the envelope and pressing soneone for a "reason" and not to say that
>> you would actually do this, but potentially argue the validity of the
>> "reason" would surely sour any land owner.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Dave
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>
>
> --
> Regards,
> Eric Wichman
> Meteorites USA
> http://www.meteoritesusa.com
> 904-236-5394
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

From MeteorHntr at aol.com  Fri Apr  3 03:03:01 2009
From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 03:03:01 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] -2 arrested update (Dude-- Where's My
	Caredition)
Message-ID: <cfc.52680fbb.37070ea5@aol.com>

Dave,

This reminds me of when I was in  Park Forest, actually in Steger, IL, 6 
years ago this week, where a local man  had his rear window of his car knocked out 
by a meteorite.  I asked him if  he wanted to sell the meteorite, and he made 
it plain to me that he would not  sell it for ANY price. 

Taking him at his word, I dropped the subject and  I then asked him if he 
might be interested in selling the shattered broken glass  from the impact?  To 
which he said he very well might, and then asked what  I would offer him for 
it.  I delayed in giving him an answer on the spot,  and returned to talk with 
him a couple of days later, possibly to close the deal  for the glass.

When I got back with him, he informed me that he had just  sold the meteorite 
that day.  When I asked for how much, it was something  in the neighborhood 
of $8 a gram, maybe $350 for the 40 ish gram  stone.

Trying not to look too upset, I reminded the guy that he had told  me that he 
would not be willing to sell it for ANY price.  He said  "Yea, but I had no 
idea anyone would pay THAT much for it, I just couldn't say  no" he told me.

I was too sick to let him know I would have gladly paid  him 4 times that 
much, maybe even more.

But it was my lesson to learn  that just because some people say "no" it 
doesn't always mean  "no!"

Sometimes they fib to start the negotiations at a better spot.  Sometimes 
they do in fact mean "No" as was the case with me and the Caldwell,  Kansas 
stone.   Sometimes they just don't know what they are saying  "no" to!

Should I have risked offending the man and had pressed him with  a $1,000 
offer for his rock?  Or at least a $400 offer???

Steve  Arnold
Arkansas


***********************

In a message dated  4/2/2009 11:36:57 P.M. Central Daylight Time, 
carothersdl at gmail.com  writes:
Steve,

You asked:  "So why do you still think that I  think he OWES me an 
explanation?"

As I stated in my last post, it  comes from comments like "Often times, 
people have very valid  objections.  Other times, they don't." or "Sometimes 
they will say they  don't want you to hunt because 23 years ago, a fisherman 
left a gate open  and some cows got out.  But usually that isn't a valid 
reason for never  letting anyone ever come on their land again."  Another 
comment you  made regarding the issue of asking to search a property was: 
"Granted,  people lie." Well, maybe they do, but the point is, so what?  It's 
 
their property and they don't need to explain past the answer...  No.

When you say things like the above, in the context of trying to get  
permission to search a property from a land owner, what is being implied is  
that 1) the person owes you an explanation and 2) if the person does give  
you a reason, that reason must somehow be validated as being reasonable by  
you.

I apologize if I'm reading way too much into this, but I've run  into a 
similar situation and maybe that's why I'm sensitive to this. I've  had 
people wanting to buy property from me and they just won't take a simple  NO! 
for an answer.  They too want to ask the question "Why won't you  sell it to 
us".  I'm sorry, but I don't owe them or anyone else an  explanation.  Even 
if I did provide an explanation, what then?   They try to tell me why I'm 
"wrong" and should sell to them.  That to  me is being arrogant.

One last item.  I did not, nor would I ever  say or imply that you were rude 
or that your conversations with land owners  are contentious or anything like 
that.  From all accounts, you have a  stellar (no pun intended) rep.  I thank 
you too for your courteous  replies.

Regards,

Dave

----- Original Message -----  
From: <MeteorHntr at aol.com>
To: <carothersdl at gmail.com>;  <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009  10:37 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] -2 arrested update (Dude-- Where's My  
Caredition)


Dave,

You said:

"I thank you for the  detailed explanation,  but I still have issue with your
idea that a land  owner would owe you an  explanation other than "No" when
asked to search  their property."


When I clearly stated in my last post:

"Does  he have an  obligation to tell me why he said no?  Of course  not.  And
did I even  imply that he was obligated to?  But if  you don't ask, often you
don't get  an answer."

*****

So  why do you still think that I think he OWES me an  explanation?

I  don't think he owes me to let me hunt on his land, but I still ask.

He  didn't owe me an explanation, but I still asked for one.

Besides, if  someone owes you something, you demand, you don't ask.

I didn't demand  anything, I just asked.  I wasn't rude. He wasn't  rude.   He
didn't kick me off his driveway. He didn't even ask me to  leave nor  did he
end the conversation.  We had a short, 3 minute talk,  then  I left when it 
was
evident he didn't care if meteorites would be   lost.  Maybe if I offered him
$10,000 in exchange for hunting, he  might  have become interested.  Then 
again,
if he had a  $500,000 "crop" out in the  trees growing, $10,000 for  hunting
privileges wouldn't have probably interested  him  either.

I didn't waste his whole day, he was doing some work, and he kept  working
while I was talking.

Now, maybe someone talked with him before  I did and offended him  in such a
way that he was sour to not me  personally, but to "meteorite hunters"  in
general.  That could  have been the case.  And it was, I would  have loved to 
 
have
found that out.

But since he didn't say that, or give any  reason, I just don't know.

Besides, I ended up hunting on one of his  neighbors ground the next day
where we found the 1,673g specimen the day  before the rains, so maybe it was 
a
blessing that he said "No," and that  he didn't tell me why, and that I 
didn't
overcome his  objections?

Then again, I might have changed his mind and I might have  found 5 kilo 
rock
on his ground instead.

Who knows?  It is  all "water under the bridge", or should I say "rocks 
under
the mud"  now.

Steve


**************Lose weight like TV?s Biggest Loser finalists. Start w/ a FREE 
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From rsvp321 at hotmail.com  Fri Apr  3 04:09:49 2009
From: rsvp321 at hotmail.com (Pete Pete)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 04:09:49 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Some thoughts on Hunting in West,
 Texas and private property....
In-Reply-To: <CA57B42A-47FD-45E3-88CE-F3076555BB08@gilanet.com>
References: <CA57B42A-47FD-45E3-88CE-F3076555BB08@gilanet.com>
Message-ID: <BAY141-W800BF49CB312E32093B6EF8890@phx.gbl>


Hi, Mike and List,
 
Would it be fair to say that Mr Enders was making ~ $3,500.00 a day; $24,500.00 a week from hunters? 
 
I think he may be taking this summer off!
 
CHeers,
 
Pete
 


----------------------------------------
> From: mikewren at gilanet.com
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 21:13:55 -0700
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Some thoughts on Hunting in West, Texas and private property....
>
> Hello All,
>
> You can simply assume that what does not belong to you, belongs to
> someone else. Private property is obvious. If it is not yours, it
> belongs to someone else. Getting permission to hunt meteorites on
> other people's property is an absolute must. Especially, in places
> like West, Texas.
>
> When my son and I first arrived in West, Texas, the first thing we saw
> was Mike Farmer coming out of one of the local bakery shops. We
> stopped and said hello. I asked him if he had found any stones and if
> I could see one. He showed me a real pretty ~30 gram one. We all went
> in and had coffee and kolanches and talked some. I then told my son it
> was time to go find this strewn field. My son Chris, said why don't
> you just ask Mike where they are finding stones. I said we could, but
> I want you to see how this is done from scratch, besides we might find
> something out that they don't already know. So we headed out blindly
> and we started to knock on doors and talk to people.
>
> It did not take too long (about 6 hours) to start to understand the
> lay of the land and where some of the strewn field might be located.
> We came upon Mr. Enders farm and saw him and his son driving over to
> their barn. His place really looked good for hunting and we really
> wanted to talk to him. I went up to his truck and introduced myself to
> him and told him what I wanted. At first, he was not wanting to talk
> to me and said he was not wanting any more "Meteorite People" on his
> property. He was afraid of all of these strangers roaming his property
> and afraid on being sued. We talked for a while and I suggested that
> maybe my son and I could hunt for the day and that we were really
> excited to be hunting meteorites and would appreciate the chance to
> hunt his land. I told him that to me it was worth $50.00 per day per
> person to hunt. I would give him a $100.00 up front for my son and
> me, for today's hunting. He asked me what these things were worth and
> for the next several hours we talked about meteorites, hunting, places
> I have been, what they are worth, why they are important, etc, etc. I
> told him that it was way too early to know what this particular fall
> was going to be worth, but probably more than $20.00 per gram. I told
> him I would pay between $3.00 to $5.00 per gram and $100.00 per day
> for Chris and I to hunt. He accepted. He told me he let some other
> folks hunt for a day, but they offered him only a $1.00 per gram and
> no base fee for the day. I told him that was way to low. I said, this
> is your land and just to be able to hunt meteorites on it is worth
> more than that to me. He asked me if I wanted him to keep the other
> hunters off his place since I was "leasing" or paying for hunting
> rights. I asked him how much land he had and he said 500 acres! I said
> there was no way my son and I could hunt all that land. I told him a
> lot of these hunters came from far away and that they would appreciate
> a place to hunt that had good potential. I told him to keep to the
> base fee of $50.00 per person and around $3.00 per gram, but he should
> maybe be flexible with all and do a deal with each person as he saw
> fit. He thanked me for letting him know what was going on and Mr
> Enders gates were know open for business! Over 70 people searched his
> land and they keep searching and finding stones. Over 100 individuals
> have come off his land and his place is huge and there is no doubt
> more there on his property.
>
> On days when my son and I did pretty good I always gave him a bonus
> above our agreed amounts. We had fun and we paid to play. Also, Mr
> Enders knows my ebay store and knows what I get for my West pieces,
> and regardless I am welcome back anytime!
>
> Mr Enders called me the other day and thanked me. He said he has done
> real well and appreciated how I helped him use his ranch to make money
> in these hard times.
>
> Some things....
>
> * Always get permission to hunt on private property.
>
> * In order to get permission, be polite, kind, respectful and take
> time to do a little educating about meteorites.
>
> * There are dollars $$$ involved with meteorites, so maybe share some
> of this in whatever way works with the private land owners.
>
> * $25.00, $50.00 or $100.00 per day to hunt potentially meteorite
> laden ground is a small price to pay if you love hunting. Yes, of
> course, if you can do it for free and the owner of the land does not
> care about a fee, well I guess that is fine too.
>
> * Work out some understanding about value and what you might be able
> to pay. Believe me, you would hate to find a 5 kilo meteorite and not
> have some discussion ahead of time about how you are going to handle
> this with the land owner.
>
> * Respect people's wishes if they don't want you on their land.
>
> * If you are traveling with several meteorite hunters, maybe only have
> one person go to the door to begin talks. Think about it, after
> hearing a knock, you come to the door of your quiet farm house, and
> there are 3 or 4 guys standing on your porch???
>
> * If you are in Bush country, don't pull up with an Obama sticker on
> your car!
>
> * Don't bring your dog meteorite hunting-dog's chase livestock.
>
> * Assure the land owner that your responsible. You will close gates if
> closed. You will not damage fences. You will stay away from
> livestock. You will NOT sue him or her if you get hurt.
>
> * After you have a relationship with one landowner, maybe you can ask
> them to call their neighbors and vouch for you. This opened up several
> closed properties to my son and I. These people don't know me, but
> they sure as heck know the land owner and have for 30 years! Make
> friends and allies.
>
> * Stay off of planted fields. Dude, if you walked on my plants in my
> garden-I would throw a rock at you!
>
> * Get Permission. Be respectful. Share in the riches $$$. Also, always
> (In The Nininger tradition) take time to teach about the wonderful and
> exciting world of meteoritics!
>
>
> Some Thoughts...
>
> Michael Cottingham
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
_________________________________________________________________
Share photos with friends on Windows Live Messenger
http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9650734

From rsvp321 at hotmail.com  Fri Apr  3 04:11:32 2009
From: rsvp321 at hotmail.com (Pete Pete)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 04:11:32 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Some thoughts on Hunting in West,
 Texas and private property....
In-Reply-To: <BAY141-W800BF49CB312E32093B6EF8890@phx.gbl>
References: <CA57B42A-47FD-45E3-88CE-F3076555BB08@gilanet.com>
	<BAY141-W800BF49CB312E32093B6EF8890@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BAY141-W19696427BBFE2880FE9D95F8890@phx.gbl>


Disregard that - just got home from midnight shift - numbers all wrong - isn't 70 people a day hunting.
 
Duh!
 


----------------------------------------
> From: rsvp321 at hotmail.com
> To: mikewren at gilanet.com; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 04:09:49 -0400
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Some thoughts on Hunting in West, Texas and private property....
>
>
> Hi, Mike and List,
>
> Would it be fair to say that Mr Enders was making ~ $3,500.00 a day; $24,500.00 a week from hunters?
>
> I think he may be taking this summer off!
>
> CHeers,
>
> Pete
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------
>> From: mikewren at gilanet.com
>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 21:13:55 -0700
>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Some thoughts on Hunting in West, Texas and private property....
>>
>> Hello All,
>>
>> You can simply assume that what does not belong to you, belongs to
>> someone else. Private property is obvious. If it is not yours, it
>> belongs to someone else. Getting permission to hunt meteorites on
>> other people's property is an absolute must. Especially, in places
>> like West, Texas.
>>
>> When my son and I first arrived in West, Texas, the first thing we saw
>> was Mike Farmer coming out of one of the local bakery shops. We
>> stopped and said hello. I asked him if he had found any stones and if
>> I could see one. He showed me a real pretty ~30 gram one. We all went
>> in and had coffee and kolanches and talked some. I then told my son it
>> was time to go find this strewn field. My son Chris, said why don't
>> you just ask Mike where they are finding stones. I said we could, but
>> I want you to see how this is done from scratch, besides we might find
>> something out that they don't already know. So we headed out blindly
>> and we started to knock on doors and talk to people.
>>
>> It did not take too long (about 6 hours) to start to understand the
>> lay of the land and where some of the strewn field might be located.
>> We came upon Mr. Enders farm and saw him and his son driving over to
>> their barn. His place really looked good for hunting and we really
>> wanted to talk to him. I went up to his truck and introduced myself to
>> him and told him what I wanted. At first, he was not wanting to talk
>> to me and said he was not wanting any more "Meteorite People" on his
>> property. He was afraid of all of these strangers roaming his property
>> and afraid on being sued. We talked for a while and I suggested that
>> maybe my son and I could hunt for the day and that we were really
>> excited to be hunting meteorites and would appreciate the chance to
>> hunt his land. I told him that to me it was worth $50.00 per day per
>> person to hunt. I would give him a $100.00 up front for my son and
>> me, for today's hunting. He asked me what these things were worth and
>> for the next several hours we talked about meteorites, hunting, places
>> I have been, what they are worth, why they are important, etc, etc. I
>> told him that it was way too early to know what this particular fall
>> was going to be worth, but probably more than $20.00 per gram. I told
>> him I would pay between $3.00 to $5.00 per gram and $100.00 per day
>> for Chris and I to hunt. He accepted. He told me he let some other
>> folks hunt for a day, but they offered him only a $1.00 per gram and
>> no base fee for the day. I told him that was way to low. I said, this
>> is your land and just to be able to hunt meteorites on it is worth
>> more than that to me. He asked me if I wanted him to keep the other
>> hunters off his place since I was "leasing" or paying for hunting
>> rights. I asked him how much land he had and he said 500 acres! I said
>> there was no way my son and I could hunt all that land. I told him a
>> lot of these hunters came from far away and that they would appreciate
>> a place to hunt that had good potential. I told him to keep to the
>> base fee of $50.00 per person and around $3.00 per gram, but he should
>> maybe be flexible with all and do a deal with each person as he saw
>> fit. He thanked me for letting him know what was going on and Mr
>> Enders gates were know open for business! Over 70 people searched his
>> land and they keep searching and finding stones. Over 100 individuals
>> have come off his land and his place is huge and there is no doubt
>> more there on his property.
>>
>> On days when my son and I did pretty good I always gave him a bonus
>> above our agreed amounts. We had fun and we paid to play. Also, Mr
>> Enders knows my ebay store and knows what I get for my West pieces,
>> and regardless I am welcome back anytime!
>>
>> Mr Enders called me the other day and thanked me. He said he has done
>> real well and appreciated how I helped him use his ranch to make money
>> in these hard times.
>>
>> Some things....
>>
>> * Always get permission to hunt on private property.
>>
>> * In order to get permission, be polite, kind, respectful and take
>> time to do a little educating about meteorites.
>>
>> * There are dollars $$$ involved with meteorites, so maybe share some
>> of this in whatever way works with the private land owners.
>>
>> * $25.00, $50.00 or $100.00 per day to hunt potentially meteorite
>> laden ground is a small price to pay if you love hunting. Yes, of
>> course, if you can do it for free and the owner of the land does not
>> care about a fee, well I guess that is fine too.
>>
>> * Work out some understanding about value and what you might be able
>> to pay. Believe me, you would hate to find a 5 kilo meteorite and not
>> have some discussion ahead of time about how you are going to handle
>> this with the land owner.
>>
>> * Respect people's wishes if they don't want you on their land.
>>
>> * If you are traveling with several meteorite hunters, maybe only have
>> one person go to the door to begin talks. Think about it, after
>> hearing a knock, you come to the door of your quiet farm house, and
>> there are 3 or 4 guys standing on your porch???
>>
>> * If you are in Bush country, don't pull up with an Obama sticker on
>> your car!
>>
>> * Don't bring your dog meteorite hunting-dog's chase livestock.
>>
>> * Assure the land owner that your responsible. You will close gates if
>> closed. You will not damage fences. You will stay away from
>> livestock. You will NOT sue him or her if you get hurt.
>>
>> * After you have a relationship with one landowner, maybe you can ask
>> them to call their neighbors and vouch for you. This opened up several
>> closed properties to my son and I. These people don't know me, but
>> they sure as heck know the land owner and have for 30 years! Make
>> friends and allies.
>>
>> * Stay off of planted fields. Dude, if you walked on my plants in my
>> garden-I would throw a rock at you!
>>
>> * Get Permission. Be respectful. Share in the riches $$$. Also, always
>> (In The Nininger tradition) take time to teach about the wonderful and
>> exciting world of meteoritics!
>>
>>
>> Some Thoughts...
>>
>> Michael Cottingham
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> _________________________________________________________________
> Share photos with friends on Windows Live Messenger
> http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9650734
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
_________________________________________________________________
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From rockhoundm at abaconet.com.ar  Fri Apr  3 06:23:29 2009
From: rockhoundm at abaconet.com.ar (Eduardo.)
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2009 07:23:29 -0300
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fwd: Ad: ebay Auctions ending in a few hours.
	Ensisheim, Mighei, Camel Donga & more
Message-ID: <B0000039332@webmail.abaco.net.ar>

Hi

I have over 30 auctions ending in a few hours on ebay

Some highlights:

633g ORIENTED Sikhote-Alin
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280327423490

0.31g part slice of ENSISHEIM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280327442336

MIGHEI a small but nice fragment of the ?M? of the CM meteorites
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280327443761

A Spectacular ORIENTED CAMEL DONGA baby (5.3g)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280327558044

239g part slice of COVERT
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280327443761

Or just take a look a all my acutions here:
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZsmfmeteoritesQQhtZ-1

thanks 

Eduardo



From mark.ford at ssl.gb.com  Fri Apr  3 07:43:11 2009
From: mark.ford at ssl.gb.com (Mark Ford)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 12:43:11 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] Name Upgrade
In-Reply-To: <003b01c9b39f$6fbb7d20$4564fea9@TITAN>
References: <003b01c9b39f$6fbb7d20$4564fea9@TITAN>
Message-ID: <29A9DB45B84970458190D7D39BD42C4956C558@gamma.ssl.atw>

Or as we call it over on the British and Irish Meteorite Society list,
the 'BSL' or Big scary list...

:)

Mark


-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of
John.L.Cabassi
Sent: 02 April 2009 15:29
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: [meteorite-list] Name Upgrade

G'Day List
After evaluating the knowledge I had gained this week on the Meteorite
List, 
I have come to the conclusion we desperately need an upgrade.

So I propose a name change, the Meteorite List a.k.a. Met-List be named 
Bitch List a.k.a. Bit-List which is quite appropriate considering no one
is 
immune to being bit.

Thank you for your time.

Cheers
John 

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Registered address Rectory Farm Rd, Sompting, Lancing, W Sussex BN15 0DP. Company No 1800317



From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Fri Apr  3 10:09:18 2009
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 09:09:18 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] US States & Fed Govt Laws regarding prospecting,
	hiking, boondocking, stargazing, etc.
Message-ID: <e51421550904030709l477d196bgfa43558788d2832f@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Listees!

I was reading with great interest the recent list posts about state
laws in Arizona and Colorado regarding hunting for meteorites, bird
watching, etc.  I don't want some humorless officer with a crewcut and
a sharp hat threatening me with jail for stargazing or boondocking, so
I'd like to suggest a discussion thread dedicated solely to the laws,
and not the ethics, of hunting meteorites on state and federally-owned
land.

I have a couple of observations and questions I'd like to share with
the group and someone please correct me if I am wrong about anything
here -

I read that one must have a special state license or pass to use
certain state lands in Arizona and Colorado - I am assuming this does
not apply to pay-for-access areas like State Parks where tourists pay
an entry fee and they are allowed to birdwatch and hike within the
boundaries of the park.  Also, what about the federal land passes that
are available?  If I am in a National Park in Arizona (federal land)
and I have a valid federal land pass, does this mean an Arizona state
officer can't hassle me on that federal land?  I realize having such a
pass does not entitle me to access or use state-owned lands, but am I
correct in my assumption that the federal pass takes precedence over
the state pass on federally-administered lands?

Also, I am assuming that the possession of a state or a federal
land-use permit does not grant any privileges in regards to gathering,
harvesting, prospecting, or removing natural materials - including
fossils, minerals, gold, meteorites, etc.   I have researched the
federal land use permits online and it
's pretty clear that they only grant *access* to certain areas and use
of certain specific facilities instead of paying a gate fee or entry
fee.  It clearly states that no other rights or privileges are granted
other than the few specifically mentioned in the terms of the
pass/permit.

In Florida, where I lived for many years, one can acquire a "fossil
permit" from the State which grants certain prospecting and removal
rights on certain State-owned lands in Florida.  It only covers
fossils, but it's better than a kick in the teeth.  Are there any
other states that have similar permits available, and are these
permits available to non-residents?

I'd like to know, briefly, what risks are involved with prospecting
meteorites in the following well-known strewnfields :

Gold Basin, Franconia, Holbrook, Glorieta, the Mojave area?

It is well-known that the area around Meteor Crater (Canyon Diablo) is
off-limits to meteorite prospectors - it is verboten.  But, are there
ANY areas in the vicinity of the crater where it is possible to
legally prospect for meteorites, assuming the proper permits are in
order?  What about smaller private land owners - is any of the land
owned by someone who will grant permission to prospect, or is every
square inch of land around the Crater off-limits completely?  I find
it hard to imagine that an impact event of that size didn't throw some
meteorites over and beyond the reach of "Meteor Crater Inc, LLC and
it's Subsidiaries" legal team.  Is there no-way a law-abiding citizen
can go find a Diablo meteorite, or do I just need to get that out of
my head and forget about it?

What about Odessa Texas?  Can one legally find meteorites there on
public or private lands?  Or is it another Canyon Diablo type of
situation around the Odessa Crater?

Brenham Kansas?  Off-limits?  Will the farmers look at you cross-ways
and rack back the slide on their 10-gauge scattergun when you drive
slowly down the road gazing longingly at the rolling fields that
conceal pallasitic joy?  Does any of the Brenham strewnfield extend
onto public lands?

Has anyone ever taken a shot in the dark and looked around Peekskill
for the lost stones?  There out there oxidizing away somewhere in the
woods or in a lake.

What about the other meteorite-laden areas of Texas?  Using the NASA
WordlWind plugin for the Met Soc database, it's easy to see that some
areas of Texas are peppered with old finds.  Do any of these areas
still produce specimens, and which ones can be legally prospected (if
any)?  Dawn, Forestburg, Travis, Tulia, etc, etc, etc. ?

I ask this endless stream of questions because very soon I will be
joining the hunt and I'd like to spend some time combing these old
strewnfields for finds - but I want to stay on the right side of the
law.  I don't want a trespassing charge and I don't want to go through
what Mike and Sonny went through, if I can help it.  When I travel to
an area, I want to be very cognizant and respectful of not only the
local laws, but the local traditions and culture.  I don't want to
inadvertently find myself in a sticky situation with some Wyatt
Earp-wannabe sheriff or a trigger-happy landowner with dubious
boundaries.  Is all of this just par for the course in meteorite
prospecting?

Finally, one last question for the group, I have been to TreasureNet
and some other places online looking for information regarding the
legality of using metal detectors on public land in the various US
states.  I couldn't find a simple complete list of the applicable laws
in the various states and there seems to be a wide variation between
the states.  Does anyone have a weblink they can share that shows a
complete list or nationwide summary of the laws?

Are these the kinds of questions that wily veteran hunters hate to
hear newbies ask because it means increased competition for finds in
the long run? ;)

Best regards, clear skies, and happy huntings,

MikeG


-- 
.........................................................
Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA)
Member of the Meteoritical Society.
Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network.
Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com
..........................................................

From epgrondine at yahoo.com  Fri Apr  3 12:20:44 2009
From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 09:20:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Holocene start impacts, AD
Message-ID: <164596.8445.qm@web36901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


Hello everyone - 

Besides the NOVA special on the comet impact that ended clovis, here's some more information: 

1) I posted some of the first peoples accounts of these impacts to the paleo-anthropology list:

http://forum.palanth.com/index.php/topic,1093.0.html

Note that the Shawnee remembered impacts south, east, north, west of the Big Bone Lick area and then three more fragments hit. But at this distance in time, detail may have been replaced by theology.

2) Ken Tankersley has found a 1 inch thick layer of impactites near Sandusky, Ohio along with the remains of blast killed mega-fuana:
http://www.ourstrangeworld.net/index.php/main/article/extraterrestrial_event_affected_human_history/

3) A possible Holocene Start Impact structure has been located in Alberta:
http://www.meridianbooster.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1484183

4) Work is being done on the Carolina Bays:
http://hamptonroads.com/2008/09/carolina-bays-new-evidence-points-killer-comet

5) Note the strata at this site in Venezuela:
http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/journey/taima-taima-text.html

Now if someone (ahem, ahem) would like to restate some of their comments on Hibben's observations at Fairbanks, it might be nice.

Early man was hit in SE Asia as well:
http://researchsea.com/html/article.php/aid/3937/cid/6/research/usm_discovers_concrete_evidence_that_can_chance_the_history_of_early_man.html
though exactly which homo it was is still hotly debated. Some would say 
homo heidelbergensis. Ahem.

As always, I am currently running a special for meteorite list members on personally signed first editions of "Man and Impact in the Americas", at a mere $20 plus $5 for shipping in the US, if anyone wants to contact me for a copy.

good hunting,
E.P. Grondine
Man and Impact in the Americas

PS - Sorry end for Chicago Steve. Sometimes love turns to lust.
How do you define a meteorite dealer? 
A meteorite collector trying to afford his collection.





      

From meteorites at online.nl  Fri Apr  3 12:12:18 2009
From: meteorites at online.nl (Jan Bartels)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 18:12:18 +0200
Subject: [meteorite-list] [AD] New Orleans 17,6 grams "Hammer"
Message-ID: <82AEC5A2E14A46538C6F4C57AF94FAB4@laptop>

Hello Listoids....

Before it goes to Ebay......

17,6 grams of the "House Hammer" New Orleans.
Fragment. No crust !!

Purchased from Blaine Reed at the Tucson show 2005.
Pictures on request.

Make me an offer. (no trades, sorry)

Greets,
Jan Bartels
IMCA 9833
Holland

From rob at nakhladogmeteorites.com  Fri Apr  3 16:39:08 2009
From: rob at nakhladogmeteorites.com (Rob Wesel)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 13:39:08 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD- -760gram Gao and others
Message-ID: <014f01c9b49c$3d1ae380$6501a8c0@windows9bb74fe>

Hello all

Another run of no reserve auctions ending Sunday. Some large, some small, 
more witnessed than not.

http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnakhladog

Be well,

Rob Wesel
http://www.nakhladogmeteorites.com
------------------
We are the music makers...
and we are the dreamers of the dreams.
Willy Wonka, 1971



From bristolia at yahoo.com  Fri Apr  3 17:45:55 2009
From: bristolia at yahoo.com (Paul)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 14:45:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Microtektites from Antarctica
Message-ID: <837899.22117.qm@web36202.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


McCall, J., 2008, Microtektites from Antarctica 
Geoscientist 18.8 September 2008

http://www.geolsoc.org.uk/gsl/geoscientist/geonews/page4229.html

Yours,

Paul H.


      

From bristolia at yahoo.com  Fri Apr  3 17:56:24 2009
From: bristolia at yahoo.com (Paul)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 14:56:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Crater impostor unmasked as sheep-dip
Message-ID: <736565.90721.qm@web36207.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


Crater impostor unmasked as sheep-dip 

"The supposed meteorite that supposedly caused the 
supposed ?Sirente crater? in the Abruzzi mountains 
did not bring down the Roman Empire after all. Ted 
Nield reports. Geoscientist Online 19 March 2009"

http://www.geolsoc.org.uk/gsl/geoscientist/geonews/page5368.html

The references given in this article are:

Bondre, N 2009: Crater or not? Nature Geoscience vol. 2 March 2009 p. 166

Orm? J et al., 2002: The Sirente Crater Field, Italy. Meteorit. 
Planet. Sci., 37 1507-1521
http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu/full/2002M%26PS...37.1507O

Speranza, F et al., 2004: An anthropogenic origin of the ?Sirente 
Crater?, Abruzzi, Italy. Meteorit. Planet. Sci., 39, 4, 635-649
http://www.earth-prints.org/handle/2122/3941

Speranza, F et al., 2009: The ?Sirente crater field?, Italy,
revisited. Journal of Geophysical Research. vol. 114, B03103, 
doi:10.1029/2008JB005759. 
http://www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/2009/2008JB005759.shtml

Yours,

Paul H.


      

From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Fri Apr  3 19:13:15 2009
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 16:13:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] MRO HiRISE Images - April 1, 2009
Message-ID: <200904032313.QAA01087@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>



MARS RECONNAISSANCE ORBITER HIRISE IMAGES
April 1, 2009

o Volcanic Layers Exposed in Pit 
  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_012310_1715

o Fans on Lobes in Argyre Region
  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_011477_1275

o Monitor Seasonal Changes at a South Polar Cracked and Gullied Site
  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_011460_0980

o Fresh Impact Crater Formed between February 2005 and July 2005
  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_011425_1775

o Spider Morphology 
  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_011420_0930

o Cone on Pavonis Mons
  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_011413_1790

o Cone at the Source of Athabasca Valles
  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_011403_1905

o Small Fan-Like Features on Perennial Cap
  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_011345_0950


All of the HiRISE images are archived here:

http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/

Information about the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter is 
online at http://www.nasa.gov/mro. The mission is 
managed by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, a division 
of the California Institute of Technology, for the NASA 
Science Mission Directorate, Washington, D.C. Lockheed 
Martin Space Systems, of Denver, is the prime contractor 
and built the spacecraft. HiRISE is operated by the 
University of Arizona. Ball Aerospace and Technologies 
Corp., of Boulder, Colo., built the HiRISE instrument.


From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Fri Apr  3 19:25:55 2009
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 16:25:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars Odyssey THEMIS Images: March 30 - April 3,
	2009
Message-ID: <200904032325.QAA02587@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>


MARS ODYSSEY THEMIS IMAGES
March 30 - April 3, 2009

o Dunes Galore (Released 30 March 2009)
  http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090330a

o Channels (Released 31 March 2009)
  http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090331a

o Solar Power (Released 01 April 2009)
  http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090401a

o Sirenum Fossae (Released 02 April 2009)
  http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090402a

o Dunes (Released 03 April 2009)
  http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090403a


All of the THEMIS images are archived here:

http://themis.asu.edu/latest.html

NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory manages the 2001 Mars Odyssey mission 
for NASA's Office of Space Science, Washington, D.C. The Thermal Emission 
Imaging System (THEMIS) was developed by Arizona State University,
Tempe, in co.oration with Raytheon Santa Barbara Remote Sensing. 
The THEMIS investigation is led by Dr. Philip Christensen at Arizona State 
University. Lockheed Martin Astronautics, Denver, is the prime contractor 
for the Odyssey project, and developed and built the orbiter. Mission 
operations are conducted jointly from Lockheed Martin and from JPL, a 
division of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena. 




From element33 at peconic.net  Fri Apr  3 19:35:48 2009
From: element33 at peconic.net (Michael Bross)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 01:35:48 +0200
Subject: [meteorite-list] Announcing "Meteorite Men" the TV Show
References: <033B40E8-69C0-430C-8DE9-AA91D47C9BA4@notkin.net>
Message-ID: <0ce501c9b4b4$eb17faa0$58768a5c@Inspiron8200>

Dear Geoff and List

Great. Info sent to friends in US.
Please let us know when available in Europe.

Thanks

Michael B, France



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Notkin" <geoking at notkin.net>
To: "Meteorite List" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 7:00 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Announcing "Meteorite Men" the TV Show


> Dear Listees:
>
> As a few of you already know Steve Arnold #1 and I have been working  on a 
> major new TV project for over a year. It is a one-hour special  for the 
> Science Channel: "Meteorite Men."
>
> This is a significant step up from the previous TV work we've done. It  is 
> a big budget production with plenty of action, adventure and, of  course, 
> a little goofing around. I was recently in Burbank, CA to see  the final 
> cut of the show and we are thrilled with the results. Steve  and I 
> returned to the Brenham site for location filming, and also  filmed at a 
> second location which will remain confidential for the  moment. In 
> addition we shot a good segment at The Center for Meteorite  Studies at 
> ASU, Tempe with the kind assistance of Dr. Meenakshi Wadhwa  and Dr. 
> Laurence Garvie, both of whom appear in the special, as well  as the 
> famous IBeAM. There is also plenty of cool, hi-tech animation  of the 
> Asteroid Belt, a re-creation of a meteorite shower, etc.
>
> Science put out the official press release yesterday morning and you  can 
> read it here:
>
> http://www.thefutoncritic.com/news.aspx?id=20090331science01
>
>
> We have our own news and info page about the show here: 
> http://www.aerolite.org/meteoritemen
>
>
> And a MySpace site with additional photos here: 
> http://www.myspace.com/meteoritemen
>
> Any of you who are MySpace users, please send us a friend request;  we'd 
> be delighted to connect with you.
>
>
> The world premiere of "Meteorite Men" is Sunday, May 10 at 9 pm  Eastern, 
> only on the Science Channel.
>
> It's been a long project, but a very rewarding one. Our production 
> company has been fantastic to work with. They really went above and 
> beyond the make the best adventure documentary possible, and we hope  List 
> members in the US and Canada will enjoy the show. We do not have 
> international air dates yet, but hopefully "Meteorite Men" will be  seen 
> in other countries before too long. I will post further news when  we have 
> it.
>
>
> Thanks for reading and all the best from sunny Tucson,
>
> Geoff and Steve
>
>
> p.s.  I know the timing is weird, but this is NOT an April Fool's  joke 
>  : )
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 




From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com  Fri Apr  3 19:55:14 2009
From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 16:55:14 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Announcing "Meteorite Men" the TV Show
In-Reply-To: <COL108-W256212A0D4963690423DD59B890@phx.gbl>
References: <COL108-W256212A0D4963690423DD59B890@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <COL108-W286B40C5FA7AC43895FB939B890@phx.gbl>




I would love to see this show but don't have the Science Channel. :( When this airs can someone copy this to a dvd? I'm sure others are on the same boat as I.

Carl


_________________________________________________________________
Rediscover Hotmail?: Get quick friend updates right in your inbox. 
http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Updates1_042009

From element33 at peconic.net  Fri Apr  3 20:00:45 2009
From: element33 at peconic.net (Michael Bross)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 02:00:45 +0200
Subject: [meteorite-list] US States & Fed Govt Laws regarding
	prospecting, hiking, boondocking, stargazing, etc.
References: <e51421550904030709l477d196bgfa43558788d2832f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0cff01c9b4b8$67745870$58768a5c@Inspiron8200>

Hello MikeG and List

This is a great idea. When looking at Iridium measuring/testing (haha :)) I 
stumbled upon a
French metal detector website which summarized well enough laws and 
regulations
pertaining to "hunting" on private or public land in France: national, 
regional etc...

We know that laws can be "gray" to some extent, but still it is a good 
start.

PS: this should be another thread, but how come a place like the Canyon 
Diablo
Meteor Crater site is a private enterprise ?!
I know we talk about USA but still... such a place should be State or 
Federal property, no ?!
or did I not understand properly your post Mike ?

Good evening everyone

Michael B, France


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" <meteoritemike at gmail.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 4:09 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] US States & Fed Govt Laws regarding 
prospecting,hiking, boondocking, stargazing, etc.


> Hi Listees!
>
> I was reading with great interest the recent list posts about state
> laws in Arizona and Colorado regarding hunting for meteorites, bird
> watching, etc.  I don't want some humorless officer with a crewcut and
> a sharp hat threatening me with jail for stargazing or boondocking, so
> I'd like to suggest a discussion thread dedicated solely to the laws,
> and not the ethics, of hunting meteorites on state and federally-owned
> land.
>
> I have a couple of observations and questions I'd like to share with
> the group and someone please correct me if I am wrong about anything
> here -
>
> I read that one must have a special state license or pass to use
> certain state lands in Arizona and Colorado - I am assuming this does
> not apply to pay-for-access areas like State Parks where tourists pay
> an entry fee and they are allowed to birdwatch and hike within the
> boundaries of the park.  Also, what about the federal land passes that
> are available?  If I am in a National Park in Arizona (federal land)
> and I have a valid federal land pass, does this mean an Arizona state
> officer can't hassle me on that federal land?  I realize having such a
> pass does not entitle me to access or use state-owned lands, but am I
> correct in my assumption that the federal pass takes precedence over
> the state pass on federally-administered lands?
>
> Also, I am assuming that the possession of a state or a federal
> land-use permit does not grant any privileges in regards to gathering,
> harvesting, prospecting, or removing natural materials - including
> fossils, minerals, gold, meteorites, etc.   I have researched the
> federal land use permits online and it
> 's pretty clear that they only grant *access* to certain areas and use
> of certain specific facilities instead of paying a gate fee or entry
> fee.  It clearly states that no other rights or privileges are granted
> other than the few specifically mentioned in the terms of the
> pass/permit.
>
> In Florida, where I lived for many years, one can acquire a "fossil
> permit" from the State which grants certain prospecting and removal
> rights on certain State-owned lands in Florida.  It only covers
> fossils, but it's better than a kick in the teeth.  Are there any
> other states that have similar permits available, and are these
> permits available to non-residents?
>
> I'd like to know, briefly, what risks are involved with prospecting
> meteorites in the following well-known strewnfields :
>
> Gold Basin, Franconia, Holbrook, Glorieta, the Mojave area?
>
> It is well-known that the area around Meteor Crater (Canyon Diablo) is
> off-limits to meteorite prospectors - it is verboten.  But, are there
> ANY areas in the vicinity of the crater where it is possible to
> legally prospect for meteorites, assuming the proper permits are in
> order?  What about smaller private land owners - is any of the land
> owned by someone who will grant permission to prospect, or is every
> square inch of land around the Crater off-limits completely?  I find
> it hard to imagine that an impact event of that size didn't throw some
> meteorites over and beyond the reach of "Meteor Crater Inc, LLC and
> it's Subsidiaries" legal team.  Is there no-way a law-abiding citizen
> can go find a Diablo meteorite, or do I just need to get that out of
> my head and forget about it?
>
> What about Odessa Texas?  Can one legally find meteorites there on
> public or private lands?  Or is it another Canyon Diablo type of
> situation around the Odessa Crater?
>
> Brenham Kansas?  Off-limits?  Will the farmers look at you cross-ways
> and rack back the slide on their 10-gauge scattergun when you drive
> slowly down the road gazing longingly at the rolling fields that
> conceal pallasitic joy?  Does any of the Brenham strewnfield extend
> onto public lands?
>
> Has anyone ever taken a shot in the dark and looked around Peekskill
> for the lost stones?  There out there oxidizing away somewhere in the
> woods or in a lake.
>
> What about the other meteorite-laden areas of Texas?  Using the NASA
> WordlWind plugin for the Met Soc database, it's easy to see that some
> areas of Texas are peppered with old finds.  Do any of these areas
> still produce specimens, and which ones can be legally prospected (if
> any)?  Dawn, Forestburg, Travis, Tulia, etc, etc, etc. ?
>
> I ask this endless stream of questions because very soon I will be
> joining the hunt and I'd like to spend some time combing these old
> strewnfields for finds - but I want to stay on the right side of the
> law.  I don't want a trespassing charge and I don't want to go through
> what Mike and Sonny went through, if I can help it.  When I travel to
> an area, I want to be very cognizant and respectful of not only the
> local laws, but the local traditions and culture.  I don't want to
> inadvertently find myself in a sticky situation with some Wyatt
> Earp-wannabe sheriff or a trigger-happy landowner with dubious
> boundaries.  Is all of this just par for the course in meteorite
> prospecting?
>
> Finally, one last question for the group, I have been to TreasureNet
> and some other places online looking for information regarding the
> legality of using metal detectors on public land in the various US
> states.  I couldn't find a simple complete list of the applicable laws
> in the various states and there seems to be a wide variation between
> the states.  Does anyone have a weblink they can share that shows a
> complete list or nationwide summary of the laws?
>
> Are these the kinds of questions that wily veteran hunters hate to
> hear newbies ask because it means increased competition for finds in
> the long run? ;)
>
> Best regards, clear skies, and happy huntings,
>
> MikeG
>
>
> -- 
> .........................................................
> Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA)
> Member of the Meteoritical Society.
> Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network.
> Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com
> ..........................................................
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 




From element33 at peconic.net  Fri Apr  3 20:33:40 2009
From: element33 at peconic.net (Michael Bross)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 02:33:40 +0200
Subject: [meteorite-list] Crater impostor unmasked as sheep-dip
References: <736565.90721.qm@web36207.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <0d2a01c9b4bd$00ed2550$58768a5c@Inspiron8200>

Hi Paul and List

I remember seeing a great documentary some years ago on PBS, showing most of 
the
science technology high-tech tools accredit the (hypo)thesis that an amazing 
eruption of the
Krakatoa volcano in Indonesia was the start of the Roman Empire demise. 
(sometime in the 400 AD years)
A meteorite impact theory was researched and disregarded.

Relating to writings held in the Vatican, polar ice cores, Carbon14 dating, 
tree rings, geological testing
under Krakatoa's nearby waters etc...
... 30 years of ashes in the atmosphere, the sun being dimmed and 
consequently low harvests, starvation etc... etc...

Did some search on PBS website:
The documentary is : Secrets of the dead- Catastrophe
(http://www.shoppbs.org/search/index.jsp?kwCatId=&kw=catastrophe&origkw=catastrophe&f=PAD%2FFormat%2FDVD&sr=1)

The weblink is:
(http://www.pbs.org/wnet/secrets/previous_seasons/html/e1-menu.html)


Well, I am interested to know more about all this :)
Good evening

Michael B, France



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Paul" <bristolia at yahoo.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 11:56 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Crater impostor unmasked as sheep-dip


>
> Crater impostor unmasked as sheep-dip
>
> "The supposed meteorite that supposedly caused the
> supposed ?Sirente crater? in the Abruzzi mountains
> did not bring down the Roman Empire after all. Ted
> Nield reports. Geoscientist Online 19 March 2009"
>
> http://www.geolsoc.org.uk/gsl/geoscientist/geonews/page5368.html
>
> The references given in this article are:
>
> Bondre, N 2009: Crater or not? Nature Geoscience vol. 2 March 2009 p. 166
>
> Orm? J et al., 2002: The Sirente Crater Field, Italy. Meteorit.
> Planet. Sci., 37 1507-1521
> http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu/full/2002M%26PS...37.1507O
>
> Speranza, F et al., 2004: An anthropogenic origin of the ?Sirente
> Crater?, Abruzzi, Italy. Meteorit. Planet. Sci., 39, 4, 635-649
> http://www.earth-prints.org/handle/2122/3941
>
> Speranza, F et al., 2009: The ?Sirente crater field?, Italy,
> revisited. Journal of Geophysical Research. vol. 114, B03103,
> doi:10.1029/2008JB005759.
> http://www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/2009/2008JB005759.shtml
>
> Yours,
>
> Paul H.
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 




From cynapse at charter.net  Fri Apr  3 23:34:35 2009
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2009 22:34:35 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Japan plans to send walking robots to moon--
	nobody on Earth suprised.
In-Reply-To: <93aaac890904021745o4e4372er27ecddd779b1ab2b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d06.5051fe79.3706aeaf@aol.com>
	<93aaac890904021745m2d819f3ei1ac2311c01d6aa2f@mail.gmail.com>
	<93aaac890904021745o4e4372er27ecddd779b1ab2b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <64ldt4t5qt0v0llq293qvee852r7dso42r@4ax.com>

To think-- even as we speak, the girls who will pilot these things are learning
to walk, themselves.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,512462,00.html

Japan Aims to Create Moon-Walking Robot by 2020

Friday, April 03, 2009

TOKYO  ? 

Japan hopes to have a two-legged robot walk on the moon by around 2020, with a
joint mission involving astronauts and robots to follow, according to a plan
laid out Friday by a government group.

Specifics of the plan, including what new technologies will be required and the
size of the project's budget, are to be decided within the next two years,
according to Japan's Strategic Headquarters for Space Development, a
Cabinet-level working group.

Development of a lunar robot is part of a broad framework outlined by the group,
which is charged with plotting a new course for Japan's space strategy. As a
next step, joint exploration of the moon involving robots and astronauts will be
considered.

The framework is to be finalized late next month, after the public has a chance
to comment on the proposals.

The group also recommended promoting research into military satellites, such as
an early warning system for detecting ballistic missile launches and systems to
detect and analyze radio waves sent in space.

Other recommendations by the group include using space research as a tool to
foster diplomacy with other countries and developing an advanced satellite to
predict and monitor natural disasters.

The Strategic Headquarters was established last year by a law passed to advance
Japan's space technology and exploration. It allows the country, which has a
largely peaceful constitution, to use space for military defense.

Friday's proposal was released as North Korea was completing preparations to
launch a multistage rocket over Japan. The communist country says it will send a
communications satellite into orbit, but Tokyo suspects the North, which has
acknowledged it has nuclear weapons, is actually testing long-range missile
technology.

Japan launched its first satellite in 1970 and has long been among the world
leaders in space technology. But in recent years, it has been overshadowed by
China, which is aggressively pushing its own space program.

In January, Japan used one of its rockets to launch the first satellite to
monitor greenhouse gases worldwide, a tool to help monitor global warming.

From mstreman53 at yahoo.com  Fri Apr  3 23:54:29 2009
From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 20:54:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Banishment -OT was 2 arrested update
In-Reply-To: <c0d.4e07afe8.3706862e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <695185.49347.qm@web55208.mail.re4.yahoo.com>


--- On Thu, 4/2/09, MeteorHntr at aol.com <MeteorHntr at aol.com> wrote:
some of this story smells a little fishy... snip.. it was reported that Honorable(sic) Judge Jerry M. Daniel told the  guys  "to get out of dodge.? 

Georgia and Alabama are the only US states left where the common law of banishment is still legal statewide.  Dating back to King George III, thus predating both the US and Georgia State constitutions it has been upheld under common law by the US Supreme Court although certain limits are pending review.  

It is an almost obligatory addition to any sentence in Georgia where the defendants are not local residents and the Judge needs re-election publicity.

In Georgia, a county judge is an officer of the State court system but can't banish you into the rest of the state but, can banish you from the whole state IIRC.  Hard to enforce outside the judge's own county, and under one supreme court ruling it can't extend beyond the original sentence of the underlying sentence, it is theoretically possible to land one back in jail if caught again in the state and you are "notorious" in that banishment is not kept in state-wide records.  The new arresting officer would have to be smart enough to call the previous judge--and fortunately intelligence is not a requirement for their employment.

I know one county in Georgia where there is the Sheriff, his wife is the Jailer, his son is THE full time Deputy( who in Barney Fife tradition frequently, isn't allowed to carry a loaded gun and who's IQ is just high enough to not be classified as a rock).  The sheriff's daughter is the 9-1-1 Director/dispatcher. The judge is a cousin or uncle??? The cousin mayor in the county seat also owns the feed store, cotton gin, gun shop,ambulance service, towing contract and jail food services contract.  As you can imagine NO ONE in 20 years as ever been found not guilty. No one married into the family can get a divorce unless the family member wants it. This is not illegal per se for inbred nepotism to such a degree. In a state where it is legal to marry your cousin, this should surprise no outsider. Unfortunately to this day a common offense meriting summary execution is DWB-Driving while black or DWM --while Mexican.  I wouldn't be surprised if DWY wasn't a
 common offense--you know  Driving while Yankee.

Elton

  


From STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com  Sat Apr  4 00:32:28 2009
From: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com (STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 00:32:28 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Estheticist
Message-ID: <cac.4d69b2f4.37083cdc@aol.com>

Estheticist, I guess that is what I am.   I want to care  more about such 
things as composition and TKW or where and when it was found but  I am drawn to 
big unclassified stones because of what they look like!  The  size is all about 
looking cool and not a comparative evaluation. 

What am  I talking about?  Check out Martin Horejsi's The Accretion Desk in 
the  March Meteorite Times.  It's been a busy time on the list so I didn't  
mention this sooner but the new MT will be up in a couple days and I thought  
Martin's article was real cool.

Martin said "I'm a materialistic estheticist. What are you?"  Any one  care 
to share?

http://www.meteorite-times.com/meteorite_frame.htm

Tom
 
**************Hurry! April 15th is almost here. File your Federal taxes FREE 
with TaxACT. 
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220239440x1201335902/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.taxact.com%2F08tax.asp%3Fsc%3D084102950001%26p%3D82)

From MeteorHntr at aol.com  Sat Apr  4 01:03:04 2009
From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 01:03:04 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Announcing "Meteorite Men" the TV Show
Message-ID: <cbc.3edf00bc.37084408@aol.com>

In a message dated 4/3/2009 6:55:37 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com writes:



I would love to see this show  but don't have the Science Channel. :( When 
this airs can someone copy this to a  dvd? I'm sure others are on the same boat 
as I.

Carl
*********************

Carl,

I have been told that both  DirecTv and Dish will let you buy access to 
channels that are not in your  package for $5 per day per channel.  I have also 
been told by one person  that has "purchased" a daily pass for individual 
channels at various times that  his provider has never actually billed him for the 
occasional request he has  made. 

Check with your satellite or cable provider to see if this quasi  
pay-per-view option is available for you.

Steve Arnold
Arkansas
 
**************Hurry! April 15th is almost here. File your Federal taxes FREE 
with TaxACT. 
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220239440x1201335902/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.taxact.com%2F08tax.asp%3Fsc%3D084102950001%26p%3D82)

From aidmohamed at rocketmail.com  Sat Apr  4 03:40:07 2009
From: aidmohamed at rocketmail.com (Aid Mohamed)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 00:40:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Lunar rock for sale
Message-ID: <523675.53742.qm@web111204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>


hello List,
there is a lunar rock weigh 111g, who's interessed contact me off the list,
best regards
Aid


      


From gsac at gmx.net  Sat Apr  4 04:56:25 2009
From: gsac at gmx.net (Alexander Seidel)
Date: Sat, 04 Apr 2009 10:56:25 +0200
Subject: [meteorite-list] Announcing "Meteorite Men" the TV Show
In-Reply-To: <cbc.3edf00bc.37084408@aol.com>
References: <cbc.3edf00bc.37084408@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20090404085625.249340@gmx.net>

Aren?t there "online video recorders" (a payable service which may be subscribed to via the internet) available in the U.S., who will provide a downloadable copy of the movie for you? Besides that, somebody may provide a copy to "Youtube" - well, of course, unless any copyright is violated by this action (Geoff? Steve?)! They offer space for only 10 minute clips, but then again, a longer movie could be splitted up into several consecutive parts. In this case, it could also be viewed and commented on by computer users in Europe and elsewhere...

Just a thought.
Alex
Berlin/Germany


-------- Original-Nachricht --------
> Datum: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 01:03:04 EDT
> Von: MeteorHntr at aol.com
> An: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Announcing "Meteorite Men" the TV Show

> In a message dated 4/3/2009 6:55:37 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
> carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com writes:
> 
> 
> 
> I would love to see this show  but don't have the Science Channel. :( When
> this airs can someone copy this to a  dvd? I'm sure others are on the same
> boat 
> as I.
> 
> Carl
> *********************
> 
> Carl,
> 
> I have been told that both  DirecTv and Dish will let you buy access to 
> channels that are not in your  package for $5 per day per channel.  I have
> also 
> been told by one person  that has "purchased" a daily pass for individual 
> channels at various times that  his provider has never actually billed him
> for the 
> occasional request he has  made. 
> 
> Check with your satellite or cable provider to see if this quasi  
> pay-per-view option is available for you.
> 
> Steve Arnold
> Arkansas
>  
> **************Hurry! April 15th is almost here. File your Federal taxes
> FREE 
> with TaxACT. 
> (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220239440x1201335902/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.taxact.com%2F08tax.asp%3Fsc%3D084102950001%26p%3D82)
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

From illaenus at wp.pl  Sat Apr  4 09:18:21 2009
From: illaenus at wp.pl (Tomasz Jakubowski)
Date: Sat, 04 Apr 2009 15:18:21 +0200
Subject: [meteorite-list]  JaH 054 Ureilite need..
In-Reply-To: <523675.53742.qm@web111204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <523675.53742.qm@web111204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <49d75e1dc07cb7.86437782@wp.pl>

Dear list members,
I need JaH 054 Ureilite slice for research (Raman Spectroscopy)if 
someone have for sale please contact me off list (or other Ureilites, 
especially less shocked).

My address is : illaenus at gmail.com


Kind Regards
Tomek Jakubowski
IMCA #2321

----------------------------------------------------
Chcesz miesi?c darmowej nawigacji GPS we w?asnym telefonie kom?rkowym?
Bez ?adnych op?at i bez zobowi?za? - Kliknij:
http://klik.wp.pl/?adr=http%3A%2F%2Fnavipunkt.pl%2Fartykul.html%3Fid%3Dpromocja%26src01%3D237ce&sid=686



From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Sat Apr  4 11:09:42 2009
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 10:09:42 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Estheticist
In-Reply-To: <cac.4d69b2f4.37083cdc@aol.com>
References: <cac.4d69b2f4.37083cdc@aol.com>
Message-ID: <e51421550904040809v7a6662ar1b7ebff69d93a7cf@mail.gmail.com>

I agree! :)

I love the way some UNWA stones look - I don't care if they are big or
small, or what type they are.  I just like them for the aesthetics.

So I am not crazy in this respect?  I have company? LOL



On 4/3/09, STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com <STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com> wrote:
> Estheticist, I guess that is what I am.   I want to care  more about such
> things as composition and TKW or where and when it was found but  I am drawn
> to
> big unclassified stones because of what they look like!  The  size is all
> about
> looking cool and not a comparative evaluation.
>
> What am  I talking about?  Check out Martin Horejsi's The Accretion Desk in
> the  March Meteorite Times.  It's been a busy time on the list so I didn't
> mention this sooner but the new MT will be up in a couple days and I thought
>
> Martin's article was real cool.
>
> Martin said "I'm a materialistic estheticist. What are you?"  Any one  care
> to share?
>
> http://www.meteorite-times.com/meteorite_frame.htm
>
> Tom
>
> **************Hurry! April 15th is almost here. File your Federal taxes FREE
> with TaxACT.
> (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220239440x1201335902/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.taxact.com%2F08tax.asp%3Fsc%3D084102950001%26p%3D82)
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


-- 
.........................................................
Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA)
Member of the Meteoritical Society.
Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network.
Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com
..........................................................

From m42protosun at aol.com  Sat Apr  4 11:20:44 2009
From: m42protosun at aol.com (m42protosun at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 04 Apr 2009 11:20:44 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Looking for actual email address of Prof. Jeffrey
	S. Kargel
Message-ID: <8CB83500EE34383-12A0-2F69@WEBMAIL-DC13.sysops.aol.com>

Hi lists, knows anyone the actual email address of Prof. Jeffrey S. 
Kargel, Fallstaff or Tucson, AZ?
Please write out of list.
Uwe

________________________________________________________________________
AOL eMail auf Ihrem Handy! Ab sofort k?nnen Sie auch unterwegs Ihre AOL 
email abrufen. Registrieren Sie sich jetzt kostenlos.

From cynapse at charter.net  Sat Apr  4 12:25:36 2009
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Sat, 04 Apr 2009 11:25:36 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Announcing "Meteorite Men" the TV Show
In-Reply-To: <20090404085625.249340@gmx.net>
References: <cbc.3edf00bc.37084408@aol.com> <20090404085625.249340@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <rd0ft4doq356m1kta2gs3u80o3kjc4e7rf@4ax.com>

On Sat, 04 Apr 2009 10:56:25 +0200, you wrote:

>Aren?t there "online video recorders" (a payable service 
>which may be subscribed to via the internet) available 
>in the U.S., who will provide a downloadable copy of 
>the movie for you? 

There are two main services for legally viewing TV episodes on-line--
www.hulu.com and www.veoh.com.  But it is hit or miss if the content you want
will be made available, and there are restrictions-- they may limit the program
to viewers from US ip addresses, and they don't "allow" downloading-- you can
only watch the streaming video, without "officially" being able to save it (of
course there are always tools for getting around it, but even if you could save
it, the video isn't really top quality.)  The science channel itself puts some
videos on-line for viewing http://science.discovery.com/ but-- from just a few
seconds of playing with it-- there seems to be no way to make it full screen and
no way to fast-forward or rewind on the video.  And you still may be restricted
on where you can view it.

Your best bet is probably to keep an eye out on http://thepiratebay.org/ for the
next few days following the broadcast in case someone posts it.

http://www.dessent.net/btfaq/

From bandk at chorus.net  Sat Apr  4 11:45:08 2009
From: bandk at chorus.net (Becky and Kirk)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 10:45:08 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Announcing "Meteorite Men" the TV Show
References: <cbc.3edf00bc.37084408@aol.com> <20090404085625.249340@gmx.net>
	<rd0ft4doq356m1kta2gs3u80o3kjc4e7rf@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <393D92478ADF4CC3AA7B157C4AABE7F7@owner55652f88b>

Thanks for the info-----will check it out!
         K
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Darren Garrison" <cynapse at charter.net>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 11:25 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Announcing "Meteorite Men" the TV Show


On Sat, 04 Apr 2009 10:56:25 +0200, you wrote:

>Aren?t there "online video recorders" (a payable service
>which may be subscribed to via the internet) available
>in the U.S., who will provide a downloadable copy of
>the movie for you?

There are two main services for legally viewing TV episodes on-line--
www.hulu.com and www.veoh.com.  But it is hit or miss if the content you 
want
will be made available, and there are restrictions-- they may limit the 
program
to viewers from US ip addresses, and they don't "allow" downloading-- you 
can
only watch the streaming video, without "officially" being able to save it 
(of
course there are always tools for getting around it, but even if you could 
save
it, the video isn't really top quality.)  The science channel itself puts 
some
videos on-line for viewing http://science.discovery.com/ but-- from just a 
few
seconds of playing with it-- there seems to be no way to make it full screen 
and
no way to fast-forward or rewind on the video.  And you still may be 
restricted
on where you can view it.

Your best bet is probably to keep an eye out on http://thepiratebay.org/ for 
the
next few days following the broadcast in case someone posts it.

http://www.dessent.net/btfaq/
______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 


From keithandana at gmail.com  Sat Apr  4 13:51:46 2009
From: keithandana at gmail.com (Keith and Dana Jenkerson)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 10:51:46 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] (AD) Ebay items ending tomorrow
Message-ID: <f9cf59510904041051t685446efx1aea92bb0e5cd194@mail.gmail.com>

Hello, All!

We have 10 items ending tomorrow on Ebay, you can take a look by going here:

http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZkdmeteoritesQQhtZ-1

Thanks for looking and have a great weekend!

Dana

-- 
KD Meteorites
kdmeteorites.com
Keith and Dana Jenkerson
4596 N. Vickie Lane
Kingman, AZ., 86409
928-399-0140
928-277-9293

From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Sat Apr  4 13:57:21 2009
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Sat, 04 Apr 2009 10:57:21 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Suffolk man says he saw meteor hit
Message-ID: <49D79F81.7080807@meteoritesusa.com>

Very interesting... Could it be?

http://hamptonroads.com/2009/04/suffolk-man-says-he-saw-meteor-hit

-- 
Regards,
Eric Wichman
Meteorites USA
904-236-5394


From clp at alumni.caltech.edu  Sat Apr  4 14:23:48 2009
From: clp at alumni.caltech.edu (Chris Peterson)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 12:23:48 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Suffolk man says he saw meteor hit
References: <49D79F81.7080807@meteoritesusa.com>
Message-ID: <6AA031E3E7CB4AFD9D16FE8D41FFA3EB@bellatrix>

Not a chance. If he'd seen this a few minutes after the sky lit up, I might 
buy it. I expect he saw the fireball drop below the horizon, a couple 
hundred miles away. This report is extremely typical of that.

Chris

*****************************************
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Meteorites USA" <eric at meteoritesusa.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 11:57 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Suffolk man says he saw meteor hit


> Very interesting... Could it be?
> 
> http://hamptonroads.com/2009/04/suffolk-man-says-he-saw-meteor-hit
> 
> -- 
> Regards,
> Eric Wichman


From element33 at peconic.net  Sat Apr  4 14:45:37 2009
From: element33 at peconic.net (Michael Bross)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 20:45:37 +0200
Subject: [meteorite-list] Suffolk man says he saw meteor hit
References: <49D79F81.7080807@meteoritesusa.com>
	<6AA031E3E7CB4AFD9D16FE8D41FFA3EB@bellatrix>
Message-ID: <00b501c9b555$8c6ad8f0$9ef08a5c@Inspiron8200>

so, Chris, is it "not a chance" or "he saw the fireball drop below the 
horizon" ??
Kind of confusing...

Michael B, France


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Chris Peterson" <clp at alumni.caltech.edu>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 8:23 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Suffolk man says he saw meteor hit


> Not a chance. If he'd seen this a few minutes after the sky lit up, I 
> might buy it. I expect he saw the fireball drop below the horizon, a 
> couple hundred miles away. This report is extremely typical of that.
>
> Chris
>
> *****************************************
> Chris L Peterson
> Cloudbait Observatory
> http://www.cloudbait.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Meteorites USA" <eric at meteoritesusa.com>
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 11:57 AM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Suffolk man says he saw meteor hit
>
>
>> Very interesting... Could it be?
>>
>> http://hamptonroads.com/2009/04/suffolk-man-says-he-saw-meteor-hit
>>
>> -- 
>> Regards,
>> Eric Wichman
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 




From GeoZay at aol.com  Sat Apr  4 14:46:56 2009
From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 14:46:56 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Suffolk man says he saw meteor hit
Message-ID: <bd2.3d95cd3c.37090520@aol.com>


>>Not a chance. If he'd seen this a  few minutes after the sky lit up, I 
might 
buy it. I expect he saw the  fireball drop below the horizon, a couple 
hundred miles away. This report is  extremely typical of that.<<

I agree...also this guy claims to have  seen the meteor splash in the water 
near a bridge and him. So it was going fast  enuf to cause it to appear 
incandescent upon impact, but he reports not hearing  any sonic booms, only a 
whistling noise....amazing. The point of retardation  should be in the neighborhood 
of 9,000 mph, so this sucker was traveling pretty  fast based upon this 
witness's account.  
GeoZay  

**************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store?  Make dinner for $10 or 
less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001)

From GeoZay at aol.com  Sat Apr  4 14:50:24 2009
From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 14:50:24 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Suffolk man says he saw meteor hit
Message-ID: <c8b.4463978f.370905f0@aol.com>

>>so, Chris, is it "not a chance" or "he  saw the fireball drop below the 
horizon" ??
Kind of  confusing...<<

I think this guy only had 3 chances of being able to  see a meteor hit close 
by in the water, at a speed it should be traveling to  keep incandescence 
present and without any sonic booms...Fat, None and no  Chance. :O) 
GeoZay  

**************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store?  Make dinner for $10 or 
less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001)

From clp at alumni.caltech.edu  Sat Apr  4 14:54:34 2009
From: clp at alumni.caltech.edu (Chris Peterson)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 12:54:34 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Suffolk man says he saw meteor hit
References: <49D79F81.7080807@meteoritesusa.com>
	<6AA031E3E7CB4AFD9D16FE8D41FFA3EB@bellatrix>
	<00b501c9b555$8c6ad8f0$9ef08a5c@Inspiron8200>
Message-ID: <5A650C0CB348490BB1CB424ADCC6D9BF@bellatrix>

Well, "not a chance" isn't very scientific. I should have said "a really, 
really, really small chance". And the chance I'm referring to is that he 
witnessed an impact. From the description, it sounds like he saw some 
flaming meteor splash into the water nearby, which just didn't happen.

I'd say he saw the meteor disappear below his local horizon, which would 
have happened when the meteor was still many miles high, and therefore very 
far from him- more than a hundred miles, maybe a lot more.

Chris

*****************************************
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michael Bross" <element33 at peconic.net>
To: "Chris Peterson" <clp at alumni.caltech.edu>; 
<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 12:45 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Suffolk man says he saw meteor hit


> so, Chris, is it "not a chance" or "he saw the fireball drop below the 
> horizon" ??
> Kind of confusing...
>
> Michael B, France


From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Sat Apr  4 15:42:16 2009
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Sat, 04 Apr 2009 12:42:16 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Suffolk man says he saw meteor hit
In-Reply-To: <5A650C0CB348490BB1CB424ADCC6D9BF@bellatrix>
References: <49D79F81.7080807@meteoritesusa.com>	<6AA031E3E7CB4AFD9D16FE8D41FFA3EB@bellatrix>	<00b501c9b555$8c6ad8f0$9ef08a5c@Inspiron8200>
	<5A650C0CB348490BB1CB424ADCC6D9BF@bellatrix>
Message-ID: <49D7B818.9090701@meteoritesusa.com>

There are a few things left out of the report.

Duration of the event, distance from his location, angle of decent, 
speed and azimuth. If the guy witnessed the entire event from beginning 
to end and the fireball was very far away at first sighting, that 
explains why he may not have heard the boom. It could be that it reached 
the retardation point long before coming close to him. The whistling 
noise reported is also intriguing.

The report does NOT state that the ball of fire hit the water. Only that 
he witnessed a ball of fire.

EXCERPT:

"The shape of it, it was just too perfect to be a piece of junk. It 
looked just like a miniature comet, pretty much," he said. "It was 
really, really white with blue flames. It was pretty wild."

Butler said he didn't hear the boom, only a whistling roar as the object 
flew past. The wind-blown water was really choppy, he added, but he 
could see the splash when it landed.."


He did give a clue as to the direction of travel although it is 
extremely vague as he doesn't say which direction he was looking but 
rather the direction he was traveling (SOUTH). He stated the object was 
"..coming right at my car.."

He could have been looking East or West or in his rear-view mirror for 
that matter.

The point is it's a eye-witness report, and it's interesting enough to 
investigate further.

Even if it does turn out to be nothing.

Eric



 Chris Peterson wrote:
> Well, "not a chance" isn't very scientific. I should have said "a 
> really, really, really small chance". And the chance I'm referring to 
> is that he witnessed an impact. From the description, it sounds like 
> he saw some flaming meteor splash into the water nearby, which just 
> didn't happen.
>
> I'd say he saw the meteor disappear below his local horizon, which 
> would have happened when the meteor was still many miles high, and 
> therefore very far from him- more than a hundred miles, maybe a lot more.
>
> Chris
>
> *****************************************
> Chris L Peterson
> Cloudbait Observatory
> http://www.cloudbait.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Bross" 
> <element33 at peconic.net>
> To: "Chris Peterson" <clp at alumni.caltech.edu>; 
> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 12:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Suffolk man says he saw meteor hit
>
>
>> so, Chris, is it "not a chance" or "he saw the fireball drop below 
>> the horizon" ??
>> Kind of confusing...
>>
>> Michael B, France
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


-- 
Regards,
Eric Wichman
Meteorites USA
http://www.meteoritesusa.com
904-236-5394


From darryl at dof3.com  Sat Apr  4 15:41:14 2009
From: darryl at dof3.com (Darryl Pitt)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 15:41:14 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Suffolk man says he saw meteor hit
In-Reply-To: <c8b.4463978f.370905f0@aol.com>
References: <c8b.4463978f.370905f0@aol.com>
Message-ID: <6E75885E-D869-44B4-84C2-4B443BFF38AC@dof3.com>



generally dislike ruling out ANY chance---except where physics  
dictates otherwise.

fully agree with the following three chances indicated below.




On Apr 4, 2009, at 2:50 PM, GeoZay at aol.com wrote:

>>> so, Chris, is it "not a chance" or "he  saw the fireball drop  
>>> below the
> horizon" ??
> Kind of  confusing...<<
>
> I think this guy only had 3 chances of being able to  see a meteor  
> hit close
> by in the water, at a speed it should be traveling to  keep  
> incandescence
> present and without any sonic booms...Fat, None and no  Chance. :O)
> GeoZay
>
> **************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store?  Make dinner  
> for $10 or
> less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001)
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


From GeoZay at aol.com  Sat Apr  4 15:50:40 2009
From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 15:50:40 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Suffolk man says he saw meteor hit
Message-ID: <d2a.46ba15e8.37091410@aol.com>

>>There are a few things left out of the  report.

Duration of the event, distance from his location, angle of  decent, 
speed and azimuth. If the guy witnessed the entire event from  beginning 
to end and the fireball was very far away at first sighting, that  
explains why he may not have heard the boom. It could be that it reached  
the retardation point long before coming close to him. The whistling  
noise reported is also intriguing.

The report does NOT state that the  ball of fire hit the water. Only that 
he witnessed a ball of  fire.

EXCERPT:

"The shape of it, it was just too perfect to be a  piece of junk. It 
looked just like a miniature comet, pretty much," he said.  "It was 
really, really white with blue flames. It was pretty  wild."<<

Well...if it reached the point of retardation while he was  observing it. and 
unless this thing was way huge, I kinda doubt he would be able  to keep sight 
of it during several minutes of "dark flight" and driving at the  same time. 
>From the write up, he does mention that it appeared "really, really  white 
with blue flames." and also said it looked like "a miniature comet." With  these 
statements, I get the impression he claims to have watched it hit the  water 
while its still glowing. 
GeoZay  

**************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store?  Make dinner for $10 or 
less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001)

From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Sat Apr  4 15:52:50 2009
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Sat, 04 Apr 2009 12:52:50 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Suffolk man says he saw meteor hit
In-Reply-To: <6E75885E-D869-44B4-84C2-4B443BFF38AC@dof3.com>
References: <c8b.4463978f.370905f0@aol.com>
	<6E75885E-D869-44B4-84C2-4B443BFF38AC@dof3.com>
Message-ID: <49D7BA92.6030500@meteoritesusa.com>

I agree Darryl, but only if you assume that he saw the fireball hit the 
water. Which the report does not say.

In fact the report states "...he didn't hear the boom, only a whistling 
roar as the object flew past..." which tells me the object was NOT 
traveling at super sonic speeds or high enough speed to be incandescent.

It does NOT say a fireball hit the water.

Eric









 Pitt wrote:
>
>
> generally dislike ruling out ANY chance---except where physics 
> dictates otherwise.
>
> fully agree with the following three chances indicated below.
>
>
>
>
> On Apr 4, 2009, at 2:50 PM, GeoZay at aol.com wrote:
>
>>>> so, Chris, is it "not a chance" or "he  saw the fireball drop below 
>>>> the
>> horizon" ??
>> Kind of  confusing...<<
>>
>> I think this guy only had 3 chances of being able to  see a meteor 
>> hit close
>> by in the water, at a speed it should be traveling to  keep 
>> incandescence
>> present and without any sonic booms...Fat, None and no  Chance. :O)
>> GeoZay
>>
>> **************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store?  Make dinner 
>> for $10 or
>> less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001)
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


-- 
Regards,
Eric Wichman
Meteorites USA
http://www.meteoritesusa.com
904-236-5394


From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Sat Apr  4 15:57:08 2009
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Sat, 04 Apr 2009 12:57:08 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Suffolk man says he saw meteor hit
In-Reply-To: <49D7B818.9090701@meteoritesusa.com>
References: <49D79F81.7080807@meteoritesusa.com>	<6AA031E3E7CB4AFD9D16FE8D41FFA3EB@bellatrix>	<00b501c9b555$8c6ad8f0$9ef08a5c@Inspiron8200>	<5A650C0CB348490BB1CB424ADCC6D9BF@bellatrix>
	<49D7B818.9090701@meteoritesusa.com>
Message-ID: <49D7BB94.5080801@meteoritesusa.com>

P.S.

His comment "..."The shape of it, it was just too perfect to be a piece 
of junk.." is also a clue to the speed it was traveling. Could he see 
the shape clearly enough if it were moving at super sonic speed? In 
addition he reported he did NOT hear a sonic boom.

Or I could be spending too much time on this and have nothing better to 
do right now.

Taking a day off is good... ;)

Eric





Meteorites USA wrote:
> There are a few things left out of the report.
>
> Duration of the event, distance from his location, angle of decent, 
> speed and azimuth. If the guy witnessed the entire event from 
> beginning to end and the fireball was very far away at first sighting, 
> that explains why he may not have heard the boom. It could be that it 
> reached the retardation point long before coming close to him. The 
> whistling noise reported is also intriguing.
>
> The report does NOT state that the ball of fire hit the water. Only 
> that he witnessed a ball of fire.
>
> EXCERPT:
>
> "The shape of it, it was just too perfect to be a piece of junk. It 
> looked just like a miniature comet, pretty much," he said. "It was 
> really, really white with blue flames. It was pretty wild."
>
> Butler said he didn't hear the boom, only a whistling roar as the 
> object flew past. The wind-blown water was really choppy, he added, 
> but he could see the splash when it landed.."
>
>
> He did give a clue as to the direction of travel although it is 
> extremely vague as he doesn't say which direction he was looking but 
> rather the direction he was traveling (SOUTH). He stated the object 
> was "..coming right at my car.."
>
> He could have been looking East or West or in his rear-view mirror for 
> that matter.
>
> The point is it's a eye-witness report, and it's interesting enough to 
> investigate further.
>
> Even if it does turn out to be nothing.
>
> Eric
>

From gianpgg at hotmail.com  Sat Apr  4 16:08:33 2009
From: gianpgg at hotmail.com (gian gallo)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 20:08:33 +0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] Estheticist
In-Reply-To: <e51421550904040809v7a6662ar1b7ebff69d93a7cf@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cac.4d69b2f4.37083cdc@aol.com>
	<e51421550904040809v7a6662ar1b7ebff69d93a7cf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU105-W33C5FD06C2E28D2214B123BE860@phx.gbl>


Hola . It seems that there is a new club of crazy Estheticists, we also like to clean and to restore those B-uglies...LOL
 
larense
---------------------------------------------------------------------



 
> Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 10:09:42 -0500
> From: meteoritemike at gmail.com
> To: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com
> CC: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Estheticist
> 
> I agree! :)
> 
> I love the way some UNWA stones look - I don't care if they are big or
> small, or what type they are. I just like them for the aesthetics.
> 
> So I am not crazy in this respect? I have company? LOL
> 
> 
> 
> On 4/3/09, STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com  wrote:
>> Estheticist, I guess that is what I am. I want to care more about such
>> things as composition and TKW or where and when it was found but I am drawn
>> to
>> big unclassified stones because of what they look like! The size is all
>> about
>> looking cool and not a comparative evaluation.
>>
>> What am I talking about? Check out Martin Horejsi's The Accretion Desk in
>> the March Meteorite Times. It's been a busy time on the list so I didn't
>> mention this sooner but the new MT will be up in a couple days and I thought
>>
>> Martin's article was real cool.
>>
>> Martin said "I'm a materialistic estheticist. What are you?" Any one care
>> to share?
>>
>> http://www.meteorite-times.com/meteorite_frame.htm
>>
>> Tom
>>
>> **************Hurry! April 15th is almost here. File your Federal taxes FREE
>> with TaxACT.
>> (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220239440x1201335902/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.taxact.com%2F08tax.asp%3Fsc%3D084102950001%26p%3D82)
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
> 
> 
> -- 
> .........................................................
> Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA)
> Member of the Meteoritical Society.
> Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network.
> Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com
> ..........................................................
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live Hotmail now works up to 70% faster.
http://windowslive.com/Explore/Hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_faster_112008

From pshugar at clearwire.net  Sat Apr  4 16:11:53 2009
From: pshugar at clearwire.net (Pete Shugar)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 15:11:53 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Suffolk man says he saw meteor hit
References: <49D79F81.7080807@meteoritesusa.com>	<6AA031E3E7CB4AFD9D16FE8D41FFA3EB@bellatrix>	<00b501c9b555$8c6ad8f0$9ef08a5c@Inspiron8200>	<5A650C0CB348490BB1CB424ADCC6D9BF@bellatrix><49D7B818.9090701@meteoritesusa.com>
	<49D7BB94.5080801@meteoritesusa.com>
Message-ID: <0CF5E83E8F704F20A91ECB7BA3D4F43B@laptop>

If the thing was hot----where was the steam?
Pete

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Meteorites USA" <eric at meteoritesusa.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 2:57 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Suffolk man says he saw meteor hit


> P.S.
> 
> His comment "..."The shape of it, it was just too perfect to be a piece 
> of junk.." is also a clue to the speed it was traveling. Could he see 
> the shape clearly enough if it were moving at super sonic speed? In 
> addition he reported he did NOT hear a sonic boom.
> 
> Or I could be spending too much time on this and have nothing better to 
> do right now.
> 
> Taking a day off is good... ;)
> 
> Eric
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Meteorites USA wrote:
>> There are a few things left out of the report.
>>
>> Duration of the event, distance from his location, angle of decent, 
>> speed and azimuth. If the guy witnessed the entire event from 
>> beginning to end and the fireball was very far away at first sighting, 
>> that explains why he may not have heard the boom. It could be that it 
>> reached the retardation point long before coming close to him. The 
>> whistling noise reported is also intriguing.
>>
>> The report does NOT state that the ball of fire hit the water. Only 
>> that he witnessed a ball of fire.
>>
>> EXCERPT:
>>
>> "The shape of it, it was just too perfect to be a piece of junk. It 
>> looked just like a miniature comet, pretty much," he said. "It was 
>> really, really white with blue flames. It was pretty wild."
>>
>> Butler said he didn't hear the boom, only a whistling roar as the 
>> object flew past. The wind-blown water was really choppy, he added, 
>> but he could see the splash when it landed.."
>>
>>
>> He did give a clue as to the direction of travel although it is 
>> extremely vague as he doesn't say which direction he was looking but 
>> rather the direction he was traveling (SOUTH). He stated the object 
>> was "..coming right at my car.."
>>
>> He could have been looking East or West or in his rear-view mirror for 
>> that matter.
>>
>> The point is it's a eye-witness report, and it's interesting enough to 
>> investigate further.
>>
>> Even if it does turn out to be nothing.
>>
>> Eric
>>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

From GeoZay at aol.com  Sat Apr  4 16:12:27 2009
From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 16:12:27 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Suffolk man says he saw meteor hit
Message-ID: <cb5.521528df.3709192b@aol.com>

Okay...below is most of the article about what  this guy saw. First of all, 
the time of sighting was at 9:45 pm Sunday NIGHT. If  it wasn't glowing and was 
in the process of "dark flight" when it hit the water,  he's got one heck of 
a good eyesight. It would have to be traveling at least a  couple hundred 
miles per hour when it went over his car. At that velocity or  more and at night, 
I doubt I could have picked up on a large object whistling by  overhead. I 
know I wouldn't have been able to see it...particularly while  driving a car. 
Then a meteorite that has yet to land, has a few minutes of dark  flight to 
experience. I'm kinda curious as to how this guy would make the  connection of 
seeing a bright meteor, followed by a few minutes of  darkness(which it would have 
to have during dark flight), to the whistling noise  overhead that landed in 
the water...unless he was claiming it to be  incandescent. :O) He also says 
that he was driving over the Chesapeake Bay  Bridge "when night turned briefly 
into day. " "There it was, coming right at my  car. It was so fast that I 
didn't even have time to think that I might have been  in danger. It shot right 
over my car, it went down in the water right between  the two bridges." 
Well...I'm convinced he's alluding that it was incandescent  all the way to the water. 
So for it to be incandescent to the water, the  meteorite would have to be 
about ten tons plus traveling over 9,000 mph. That  must have been one heck of a 
splash. :O) 
George Zay
Most of the article  below:
"But only one person has said he saw where it landed.
Joe Butler of  Suffolk says he was driving south across the Chesapeake Bay 
Bridge-Tunnel when  night turned briefly into day.
"The sky was light all of a sudden, like it  was daytime," Butler recalled on 
Friday. "There it was, coming right at my car.  It was so fast that I didn't 
even have time to think that I might have been in  danger.
"It shot right over my car, it went down in the water right between  the two 
bridges."
Butler said he was near the tallest part of the bridge,  near Fisherman 
Island, where the northbound and southbound lanes separate  widely. The meteor, he 
said, splashed into the water between them.
"I was  like, what in the world is going on?" Butler said. "My daughter, she 
said, 'Wow,  what was that, Daddy?' and I said, 'I don't know, babe, I think 
that was a  falling star.' "
The meteor flashed past Hampton Roads around 9:45 p.m.  Sunday, briefly 
lighting up the landscape.
It was followed one to two minutes  later by a sonic boom, which experts said 
meant it had penetrated deep enough  into the atmosphere to leave 
meteorites.<<  

**************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store?  Make dinner for $10 or 
less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001)

From gianpgg at hotmail.com  Sat Apr  4 16:13:19 2009
From: gianpgg at hotmail.com (gian gallo)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 20:13:19 +0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] Estheticist
In-Reply-To: <e51421550904040809v7a6662ar1b7ebff69d93a7cf@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cac.4d69b2f4.37083cdc@aol.com>
	<e51421550904040809v7a6662ar1b7ebff69d93a7cf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU105-W308473E8C0752260F1BA6ABE860@phx.gbl>


Hola . It seems that there is a new club of crazy Estheticists, we also like to clean and to restore those B-uglies...LOL 
 
larense

----------------------------------------
> Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 10:09:42 -0500
> From: meteoritemike at gmail.com
> To: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com
> CC: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Estheticist
>
> I agree! :)
>
> I love the way some UNWA stones look - I don't care if they are big or
> small, or what type they are. I just like them for the aesthetics.
>
> So I am not crazy in this respect? I have company? LOL
>
>
>
> On 4/3/09, STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com wrote:
>> Estheticist, I guess that is what I am. I want to care more about such
>> things as composition and TKW or where and when it was found but I am drawn
>> to
>> big unclassified stones because of what they look like! The size is all
>> about
>> looking cool and not a comparative evaluation.
>>
>> What am I talking about? Check out Martin Horejsi's The Accretion Desk in
>> the March Meteorite Times. It's been a busy time on the list so I didn't
>> mention this sooner but the new MT will be up in a couple days and I thought
>>
>> Martin's article was real cool.
>>
>> Martin said "I'm a materialistic estheticist. What are you?" Any one care
>> to share?
>>
>> http://www.meteorite-times.com/meteorite_frame.htm
>>
>> Tom
>>
>> **************Hurry! April 15th is almost here. File your Federal taxes FREE
>> with TaxACT.
>> (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220239440x1201335902/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.taxact.com%2F08tax.asp%3Fsc%3D084102950001%26p%3D82)
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>
>
> --
> .........................................................
> Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA)
> Member of the Meteoritical Society.
> Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network.
> Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com
> ..........................................................
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
_________________________________________________________________
Color coding for safety: Windows Live Hotmail alerts you to suspicious email.
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From GeoZay at aol.com  Sat Apr  4 16:26:11 2009
From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 16:26:11 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Suffolk man says he saw meteor hit
Message-ID: <bdf.4bb78443.37091c63@aol.com>

>>His comment "..."The shape of it, it was  just too perfect to be a piece 
of junk.." is also a clue to the speed it was  traveling. Could he see 
the shape clearly enough if it were moving at super  sonic speed?<<

Could he see a non glowing object at all, at almost  ten at night while 
driving a car?  :O)
GeoZay  

**************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store?  Make dinner for $10 or 
less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001)

From mstreman53 at yahoo.com  Sat Apr  4 16:50:24 2009
From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 13:50:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Suffolk man says he saw meteor hit
In-Reply-To: <49D7BB94.5080801@meteoritesusa.com>
Message-ID: <236139.69371.qm@web55204.mail.re4.yahoo.com>


Not adding an opinion but just about observation consistency.
Four points and a question:
1. Once again we are dealing with a reporter--which is a class of individuals that consistently scramble eye-witness interviews.
  
2. His location was very close to the Doppler echo end track.

3. Owing to how a sonic boom propagates to the side and rear of the hypersonic missile, if you are near dead front of objects path you tend to only get echoes from gound reflections unlsee the object is still super sonic when passing your location --ask any one that has been shot at by a super sonic round.  One may hear the bullet thump but don't hear the the sonic signature that nearby folks usually do.  Thus the old adage about not hearing the shot that hits you. 

4.  Whistling, roaring, buzzing, or wap-wap sounds--( unlike those of a sonic boom, bolide, or explosion,) are often reported by observers near where a meteorite drops.

How fortunate the tidewaters are warming up and we have some scuba divers on the list.

Q: Now this was a retrograde meteor correct?  Retrograde is contra earth's rotation and prograde is with the direction of rotation?  Simple I know but I am in an argument with myself and need a referee.

Elton

From joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com  Sat Apr  4 17:06:53 2009
From: joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com (JoshuaTreeMuseum)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 17:06:53 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Oh, The Stories They Tell....
Message-ID: <A5CD7E17017A48E596C39957080AE222@ET>

There's a very simple explanation to this story:  the guy's lying!!!   How 
do I know?  Because they always lie!!  Why would you ever assume even for a 
second that such an outlandish story is true?  I work at a small Earth & 
Space Museum with a large collection of meteorites.  Every single story I've 
heard from people witnessing falls have been bogus.  At least 10 people in 
the last year and a half have brought in meteorwrongs that they swear up and 
down hit their house.  One was so hot that it melted the vinyl siding!  (It 
was railroad rock.)  One hit the house, went through the roof, bounced 
around inside awhile, then smashed through the wall and landed outside in 
the yard. (It was silicon.)  Others have hit houses narrowly missing the 
occupants. (Slag, klinkers and more silicon).  3 or 4 people have been 
outside and had to duck to avoid getting hit.  (Hematite and yet more slag.) 
Several people have come in with stories of seeing very large meteorites hit 
the ground, explode, form big craters, etc. Every one of these I've checked 
out has been a meteorwrong.  Often people will bring in non native minerals 
and swear they found them here in Indiana, or saw them fall from the sky.  I 
just had a chunk of antimony brought in that was supposedly found 30 feet 
underground!  My favorite was an older lady that just finished watching a 
television show about how meteorites are worth millions of dollars, when 
suddenly she was startled by the sound of something hitting the side of her 
house. You guessed it,  it was meteorites!   5 of them.  (One was railroad 
rock, 3 pieces of slag, a chunk of asphalt, and a piece of melted plastic.) 
Under questioning, not one relented, they all stuck to their stories.  They 
seemed to really believe their stories.  It's an interesting psychological 
phenomenon that meteorites (like sex) seem to induce people to tell 
outrageous stories. 


From bandk at chorus.net  Sat Apr  4 17:46:39 2009
From: bandk at chorus.net (Becky and Kirk)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 16:46:39 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Suffolk man says he saw meteor hit
References: <bdf.4bb78443.37091c63@aol.com>
Message-ID: <CE3B8FF7DF144E08A8A570E8FBBCF6BA@owner55652f88b>

Sounds like an unidentified flying object----an "object" that was "flying" 
and "unidentifiable??"
Kirk.....:-)
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <GeoZay at aol.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 3:26 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Suffolk man says he saw meteor hit


>>>His comment "..."The shape of it, it was  just too perfect to be a piece
> of junk.." is also a clue to the speed it was  traveling. Could he see
> the shape clearly enough if it were moving at super  sonic speed?<<
>
> Could he see a non glowing object at all, at almost  ten at night while
> driving a car?  :O)
> GeoZay
>
> **************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store?  Make dinner for $10 
> or
> less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001)
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 


From GeoZay at aol.com  Sat Apr  4 17:54:46 2009
From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 17:54:46 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Suffolk man says he saw meteor hit
Message-ID: <be8.4c660094.37093126@aol.com>


>>Sounds like an unidentified flying  object----an "object" that was "flying" 
and  "unidentifiable??"
Kirk.....:-)<<

Yeah I know...and the truth is  out there somewhere. :O)  For whatever 
reason, people often like to tell a  story, that is better than the truth. Mostly 
based on pre-conceived ideas and to  what they think things should be.
GeoZay  

**************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store?  Make dinner for $10 or 
less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001)

From bandk at chorus.net  Sat Apr  4 17:58:06 2009
From: bandk at chorus.net (Becky and Kirk)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 16:58:06 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Suffolk man says he saw meteor hit
References: <be8.4c660094.37093126@aol.com>
Message-ID: <473C4D88CF5445D7A73BC7A8D8EDA948@owner55652f88b>

Good point Geo----you are correct!
Kirk......
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <GeoZay at aol.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 4:54 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Suffolk man says he saw meteor hit


>
>>>Sounds like an unidentified flying  object----an "object" that was 
>>>"flying"
> and  "unidentifiable??"
> Kirk.....:-)<<
>
> Yeah I know...and the truth is  out there somewhere. :O)  For whatever
> reason, people often like to tell a  story, that is better than the truth. 
> Mostly
> based on pre-conceived ideas and to  what they think things should be.
> GeoZay
>
> **************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store?  Make dinner for $10 
> or
> less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001)
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 


From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com  Sat Apr  4 18:22:29 2009
From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 15:22:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Nice slice of a LL4 S3 W1 (preliminary results)
Message-ID: <378508.30197.qm@web45614.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>


Here is a nice slice of an LL4 S3 W1 (Based on the preliminary counts of clinoenstatite vs. enstatite)
I thought some of you would enjoy a picture of it. 

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/ASU_NWA_5.jpg

Hope everyone is having a good day!

Greg C.


      


From waltbranch at bellsouth.net  Sat Apr  4 18:39:24 2009
From: waltbranch at bellsouth.net (Walter Branch)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 18:39:24 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Suffolk man says he saw meteor hit
References: <be8.4c660094.37093126@aol.com>
Message-ID: <8EF2F7BC113B441BBD0E2179BB681E77@Walter>

I think many people's pre-conceived idea of what a meteor or meteorite 
should be is based upon a Hollywood movie (e.g, Armageddon) of exploding 
meteorites raining havoc on the populace, which is why I don't want 
Hollywood to ever change it's version.  It makes it easy to tell the 
could-be-true stories from the ones which don't even have a chance.

-Walter Branch
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <GeoZay at aol.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 5:54 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Suffolk man says he saw meteor hit


>
>>>Sounds like an unidentified flying  object----an "object" that was 
>>>"flying"
> and  "unidentifiable??"
> Kirk.....:-)<<
>
> Yeah I know...and the truth is  out there somewhere. :O)  For whatever
> reason, people often like to tell a  story, that is better than the truth. 
> Mostly
> based on pre-conceived ideas and to  what they think things should be.
> GeoZay
>
> **************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store?  Make dinner for $10 
> or
> less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001)
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


From gianpgg at hotmail.com  Sat Apr  4 20:08:45 2009
From: gianpgg at hotmail.com (gian gallo)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 00:08:45 +0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] test - delete
Message-ID: <BLU105-W545CB00C07DD502005E8C4BE870@phx.gbl>






 
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From gianpgg at hotmail.com  Sat Apr  4 20:11:14 2009
From: gianpgg at hotmail.com (gian gallo)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 00:11:14 +0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] Estheticist
In-Reply-To: <e51421550904040809v7a6662ar1b7ebff69d93a7cf@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cac.4d69b2f4.37083cdc@aol.com>
	<e51421550904040809v7a6662ar1b7ebff69d93a7cf@mail.gmail.com> 
Message-ID: <BLU105-W14F35D2EB09CCB46E69ED9BE870@phx.gbl>


 Hola . It seems that there is a new club of crazy Estheticists, we also like to clean and to restore those B-uglies...LOL
>
> larense
>
> ----------------------------------------
>> Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 10:09:42 -0500
>> From: meteoritemike at gmail.com
>> To: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com
>> CC: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Estheticist
>>
>> I agree! :)
>>
>> I love the way some UNWA stones look - I don't care if they are big or
>> small, or what type they are. I just like them for the aesthetics.
>>
>> So I am not crazy in this respect? I have company? LOL
>>
>>
>>
>> On 4/3/09, STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com wrote:
>>> Estheticist, I guess that is what I am. I want to care more about such
>>> things as composition and TKW or where and when it was found but I am drawn
>>> to
>>> big unclassified stones because of what they look like! The size is all
>>> about
>>> looking cool and not a comparative evaluation.
>>>
>>> What am I talking about? Check out Martin Horejsi's The Accretion Desk in
>>> the March Meteorite Times. It's been a busy time on the list so I didn't
>>> mention this sooner but the new MT will be up in a couple days and I thought
>>>
>>> Martin's article was real cool.
>>>
>>> Martin said "I'm a materialistic estheticist. What are you?" Any one care
>>> to share?
>>>
>>> http://www.meteorite-times.com/meteorite_frame.htm
>>>
>>> Tom
>>>
>>> **************Hurry! April 15th is almost here. File your Federal taxes FREE
>>> with TaxACT.
>>> (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220239440x1201335902/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.taxact.com%2F08tax.asp%3Fsc%3D084102950001%26p%3D82)
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> .........................................................
>> Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA)
>> Member of the Meteoritical Society.
>> Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network.
>> Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com
>> ..........................................................
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> _________________________________________________________________
> Color coding for safety: Windows Live Hotmail alerts you to suspicious email.
> http://windowslive.com/Explore/Hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_safety_112008
_________________________________________________________________
Color coding for safety: Windows Live Hotmail alerts you to suspicious email.
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From gianpgg at hotmail.com  Sat Apr  4 20:13:53 2009
From: gianpgg at hotmail.com (gian gallo)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 00:13:53 +0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] Estheticist
In-Reply-To: <e51421550904040809v7a6662ar1b7ebff69d93a7cf@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cac.4d69b2f4.37083cdc@aol.com>
	<e51421550904040809v7a6662ar1b7ebff69d93a7cf@mail.gmail.com> 
Message-ID: <BLU105-W57E8AC175DF4B401E7DF73BE870@phx.gbl>


 Hola . It seems that there is a new club of crazy Estheticists, we also like to clean and to restore those B-uglies...LOL
>
> larense
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>> Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 10:09:42 -0500
>> From: meteoritemike at gmail.com
>> To: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com
>> CC: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Estheticist
>>
>> I agree! :)
>>
>> I love the way some UNWA stones look - I don't care if they are big or
>> small, or what type they are. I just like them for the aesthetics.
>>
>> So I am not crazy in this respect? I have company? LOL
>>
>>
>>
>> On 4/3/09, STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com wrote:
>>> Estheticist, I guess that is what I am. I want to care more about such
>>> things as composition and TKW or where and when it was found but I am drawn
>>> to
>>> big unclassified stones because of what they look like! The size is all
>>> about
>>> looking cool and not a comparative evaluation.
>>>
>>> What am I talking about? Check out Martin Horejsi's The Accretion Desk in
>>> the March Meteorite Times. It's been a busy time on the list so I didn't
>>> mention this sooner but the new MT will be up in a couple days and I thought
>>>
>>> Martin's article was real cool.
>>>
>>> Martin said "I'm a materialistic estheticist. What are you?" Any one care
>>> to share?
>>>
>>> http://www.meteorite-times.com/meteorite_frame.htm
>>>
>>> Tom
>>>
>>> **************Hurry! April 15th is almost here. File your Federal taxes FREE
>>> with TaxACT.
>>> (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220239440x1201335902/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.taxact.com%2F08tax.asp%3Fsc%3D084102950001%26p%3D82)
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> .........................................................
>> Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA)
>> Member of the Meteoritical Society.
>> Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network.
>> Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com
>> ..........................................................
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> _________________________________________________________________
> Windows Live Hotmail now works up to 70% faster.
> http://windowslive.com/Explore/Hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_faster_112008
_________________________________________________________________
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From gianpgg at hotmail.com  Sat Apr  4 20:16:00 2009
From: gianpgg at hotmail.com (gian gallo)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 00:16:00 +0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] Estheticists
Message-ID: <BLU105-W507A5439AAD8782BACB031BE870@phx.gbl>


Hola . It seems that there is a new club of crazy Estheticists, we also like to clean and to restore those B-uglies...LOL 
 
larense
_________________________________________________________________
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From rhartman04 at earthlink.net  Sat Apr  4 22:24:37 2009
From: rhartman04 at earthlink.net (R N Hartman)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 19:24:37 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] US States & Fed Govt Laws regardingprospecting,
	hiking, boondocking, stargazing, etc.
References: <e51421550904030709l477d196bgfa43558788d2832f@mail.gmail.com>
	<0cff01c9b4b8$67745870$58768a5c@Inspiron8200>
Message-ID: <002f01c9b595$aace6f60$6401a8c0@DBZC5NB1>

Hello Mike, to respond to yor post:  <<PS: this should be another thread, 
but how come a place like the Canyon
> Diablo
> Meteor Crater site is a private enterprise ?!
> I know we talk about USA but still... such a place should be State or 
> Federal property, no ?!
> or did I not understand properly your post Mike ?>>

I have been told:  "Meteor Crater" Arizona is private land because in the 
eartly 20th century Arizona was the wild west and the gvt. allowed people to 
stake mining claims.  Barringer applied for 4 claims, centered on the crater 
floor where he thought he could mine a large iron meteorite.  These claims 
were essentially free to miners. Of course, the land came with the claim. 
The crtaer  land is only one section ( a square one mile on a side).  The 
land around is property of the Bar-B-Bar ranch, and eventially Barringer 
(Meteor Crater Enterprises) and the ranch merged into a legal entity. In 
fact, while the ranch land is many many square miles, they only own every 
alternate square (checker board pattern) and the other 50% is owned by the 
state of Arizona;  that portion is then leased to the ranch for GRAZING 
RIGHTS ONLY but NOT MINERAL RIGHTS.  (I went through the state reconds at 
the land office in Phoenix myself and talked to the person in charge.)   The 
whole thing is also part of a recreational overlay for hunters, etc., so 
they cannot prohibit you from trespassing.  If you want to hunt for fossils 
you are free to do so (last I heard).  However, if the staff at meteor 
Crater catch someone hunting meteorites they can and probably will call the 
sheriff and do their best to give you a bad time.  The state is the only 
entity that can legally do something about hunting meteorites on the state 
parcels, and they will as they and the Crater people have a personal 
relationship. The catch is that legally you need to apply for a permit to 
hunt meteorites in Arizona (legally).  And the state will not process a 
permit for hunting in the proximity of the crater.  One of the reasons that 
started their policy why they don't want meteorite collecting on their land 
is that collectors were digging holes and not filling them in.  They were 
making a mess of the grazing land and risking that cattle could fall into a 
hole at night and break a leg.   Makes sense!  That was the thinking, I have 
heard, back in the good old days when only a few hunters would come around. 
Now its a parade whenever a new area is found and its tearing up the desert, 
dry lakes and everywhere else!


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michael Bross" <element33 at peconic.net>
To: "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" <meteoritemike at gmail.com>; 
<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 5:00 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] US States & Fed Govt Laws 
regardingprospecting, hiking, boondocking, stargazing, etc.


> Hello MikeG and List
>
> This is a great idea. When looking at Iridium measuring/testing (haha :)) 
> I stumbled upon a
> French metal detector website which summarized well enough laws and 
> regulations
> pertaining to "hunting" on private or public land in France: national, 
> regional etc...
>
> We know that laws can be "gray" to some extent, but still it is a good 
> start.
>
> PS: this should be another thread, but how come a place like the Canyon 
> Diablo
> Meteor Crater site is a private enterprise ?!
> I know we talk about USA but still... such a place should be State or 
> Federal property, no ?!
> or did I not understand properly your post Mike ?
>
> Good evening everyone
>
> Michael B, France
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" <meteoritemike at gmail.com>
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 4:09 PM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] US States & Fed Govt Laws regarding 
> prospecting,hiking, boondocking, stargazing, etc.
>
>
>> Hi Listees!
>>
>> I was reading with great interest the recent list posts about state
>> laws in Arizona and Colorado regarding hunting for meteorites, bird
>> watching, etc.  I don't want some humorless officer with a crewcut and
>> a sharp hat threatening me with jail for stargazing or boondocking, so
>> I'd like to suggest a discussion thread dedicated solely to the laws,
>> and not the ethics, of hunting meteorites on state and federally-owned
>> land.
>>
>> I have a couple of observations and questions I'd like to share with
>> the group and someone please correct me if I am wrong about anything
>> here -
>>
>> I read that one must have a special state license or pass to use
>> certain state lands in Arizona and Colorado - I am assuming this does
>> not apply to pay-for-access areas like State Parks where tourists pay
>> an entry fee and they are allowed to birdwatch and hike within the
>> boundaries of the park.  Also, what about the federal land passes that
>> are available?  If I am in a National Park in Arizona (federal land)
>> and I have a valid federal land pass, does this mean an Arizona state
>> officer can't hassle me on that federal land?  I realize having such a
>> pass does not entitle me to access or use state-owned lands, but am I
>> correct in my assumption that the federal pass takes precedence over
>> the state pass on federally-administered lands?
>>
>> Also, I am assuming that the possession of a state or a federal
>> land-use permit does not grant any privileges in regards to gathering,
>> harvesting, prospecting, or removing natural materials - including
>> fossils, minerals, gold, meteorites, etc.   I have researched the
>> federal land use permits online and it
>> 's pretty clear that they only grant *access* to certain areas and use
>> of certain specific facilities instead of paying a gate fee or entry
>> fee.  It clearly states that no other rights or privileges are granted
>> other than the few specifically mentioned in the terms of the
>> pass/permit.
>>
>> In Florida, where I lived for many years, one can acquire a "fossil
>> permit" from the State which grants certain prospecting and removal
>> rights on certain State-owned lands in Florida.  It only covers
>> fossils, but it's better than a kick in the teeth.  Are there any
>> other states that have similar permits available, and are these
>> permits available to non-residents?
>>
>> I'd like to know, briefly, what risks are involved with prospecting
>> meteorites in the following well-known strewnfields :
>>
>> Gold Basin, Franconia, Holbrook, Glorieta, the Mojave area?
>>
>> It is well-known that the area around Meteor Crater (Canyon Diablo) is
>> off-limits to meteorite prospectors - it is verboten.  But, are there
>> ANY areas in the vicinity of the crater where it is possible to
>> legally prospect for meteorites, assuming the proper permits are in
>> order?  What about smaller private land owners - is any of the land
>> owned by someone who will grant permission to prospect, or is every
>> square inch of land around the Crater off-limits completely?  I find
>> it hard to imagine that an impact event of that size didn't throw some
>> meteorites over and beyond the reach of "Meteor Crater Inc, LLC and
>> it's Subsidiaries" legal team.  Is there no-way a law-abiding citizen
>> can go find a Diablo meteorite, or do I just need to get that out of
>> my head and forget about it?
>>
>> What about Odessa Texas?  Can one legally find meteorites there on
>> public or private lands?  Or is it another Canyon Diablo type of
>> situation around the Odessa Crater?
>>
>> Brenham Kansas?  Off-limits?  Will the farmers look at you cross-ways
>> and rack back the slide on their 10-gauge scattergun when you drive
>> slowly down the road gazing longingly at the rolling fields that
>> conceal pallasitic joy?  Does any of the Brenham strewnfield extend
>> onto public lands?
>>
>> Has anyone ever taken a shot in the dark and looked around Peekskill
>> for the lost stones?  There out there oxidizing away somewhere in the
>> woods or in a lake.
>>
>> What about the other meteorite-laden areas of Texas?  Using the NASA
>> WordlWind plugin for the Met Soc database, it's easy to see that some
>> areas of Texas are peppered with old finds.  Do any of these areas
>> still produce specimens, and which ones can be legally prospected (if
>> any)?  Dawn, Forestburg, Travis, Tulia, etc, etc, etc. ?
>>
>> I ask this endless stream of questions because very soon I will be
>> joining the hunt and I'd like to spend some time combing these old
>> strewnfields for finds - but I want to stay on the right side of the
>> law.  I don't want a trespassing charge and I don't want to go through
>> what Mike and Sonny went through, if I can help it.  When I travel to
>> an area, I want to be very cognizant and respectful of not only the
>> local laws, but the local traditions and culture.  I don't want to
>> inadvertently find myself in a sticky situation with some Wyatt
>> Earp-wannabe sheriff or a trigger-happy landowner with dubious
>> boundaries.  Is all of this just par for the course in meteorite
>> prospecting?
>>
>> Finally, one last question for the group, I have been to TreasureNet
>> and some other places online looking for information regarding the
>> legality of using metal detectors on public land in the various US
>> states.  I couldn't find a simple complete list of the applicable laws
>> in the various states and there seems to be a wide variation between
>> the states.  Does anyone have a weblink they can share that shows a
>> complete list or nationwide summary of the laws?
>>
>> Are these the kinds of questions that wily veteran hunters hate to
>> hear newbies ask because it means increased competition for finds in
>> the long run? ;)
>>
>> Best regards, clear skies, and happy huntings,
>>
>> MikeG
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> .........................................................
>> Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA)
>> Member of the Meteoritical Society.
>> Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network.
>> Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com
>> ..........................................................
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 


From cynapse at charter.net  Sat Apr  4 23:40:55 2009
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Sat, 04 Apr 2009 22:40:55 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Numa kid to win bit of lunar meteorite
In-Reply-To: <49D79F81.7080807@meteoritesusa.com>
References: <49D79F81.7080807@meteoritesusa.com>
Message-ID: <pg9gt4da8cgpkigvuh3jek7bmukg51a648@4ax.com>

Wonder if it is a Sahara one, or if NASA is breaking out some of the Antarctic
stuff?

http://www.lahontanvalleynews.com/article/20090404/NEWS/904049984/1055&ParentProfile=1045

Numa students learning about space

Three sixth-grade classes at Numa Elementary School are learning about where
almost no man has gone before.

Teachers Vickie Purrell, Tiffany Allyn and Lisa Solinski and their students
viewed astronauts working at the Space Station on Wednesday morning as part of
their ongoing science project.

Students from across the nation e-mailed questions to NASA, and a few were read
and answered Wednesday morning via an Internet video feed, but malfunctions
prevented questions from Numa being submitted.

Each of the classes devised a team name for the exercise. Allyn?s class picked
Allyn?s Full Throttle Fliers, Purrell?s students chose Purrell?s Water Seekers
and Solinski?s class came up with Solinski Nerdy Moon Missionaries.

After selecting a team name, the three classes picked launch times and dates,
spacecraft names, durations of the journey and impact dates of when their
rockets would land on the moon. Students created pictures of what they felt the
spacecraft should look like and how it should be powered. Students divided into
three groups ? navigators, cartographers and engineers to fully understand what
happens during and after a rocket launch.

Purrell attended a training seminar in February designed to show students how to
use antennas to keep in touch with spacecraft.

The students? plans are due April 27, and as motivation, NASA will hold a
drawing for pupils who submit navigation plans. The prize for the best plan is a
small piece of a meteorite that fell to Earth from the moon.

The three classes each designed a crew route and orbital paths for their
spacecraft before it made impact with the moon. Their plans also discussed the
types of instruments and controls needed to track the spacecraft.

Students will also visit the supersonic wind tunnel building at NASA Ames in
Mountain View, Calif., for a firmer grasp on what astronauts encounter, such as
how to accomplish simple tasks with no gravity. Each program at the NASA Ames
facility lasts 45 minutes.

Students said a tremendous amount of teamwork is needed to determine what
happens in space exploration.

Shelby Blakey, a student in Allyn?s class, said she enjoyed working with her
group, finding information about the launch and coming up with ?14th Source? as
the rocket?s name.

?To get it done we needed teamwork,? Shelby said.

Tyler Wood said it was interesting to learn a little about the process in space
exploration, especially the launching of the space shuttle.

?I also learned teamwork,? he said, adding if students had not joined forces, it
would have been difficult to accomplish the necessary work.

Bailey Knight said it was nice seeing the entire class come together to work on
a project of this type.

Purrell said students used their own creativity and did not have to be pushed.

?The kids that did their own challenges were on their own,? she said. 

video link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6j475XI1Xg

From midwest at meteorman.org  Sat Apr  4 23:47:29 2009
From: midwest at meteorman.org (Timothy  Heitz)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 22:47:29 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] What metal detector works well on finding a stone
	meteorite?
References: <be8.4c660094.37093126@aol.com>
	<473C4D88CF5445D7A73BC7A8D8EDA948@owner55652f88b>
Message-ID: <154B885B9F334049922F7CB4BE25DC4D@Tims>

Hello List,

Most metal detectors that work great for an iron, will not work well on a 
common H5 or L6 stone.

What metal detector works well with detecting stones



Thanks,
Tim Heitz 


From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Sun Apr  5 00:03:20 2009
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 23:03:20 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] What metal detector works well on finding a
	stone meteorite?
In-Reply-To: <154B885B9F334049922F7CB4BE25DC4D@Tims>
References: <be8.4c660094.37093126@aol.com>
	<473C4D88CF5445D7A73BC7A8D8EDA948@owner55652f88b>
	<154B885B9F334049922F7CB4BE25DC4D@Tims>
Message-ID: <e51421550904042103v1499fb1kb0cf8de8d91b9026@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Tim and List,

Warning - I am repeating second-hand information, not personal experience.

I've done a lot reading on metal detectors and meteorites lately, and
I found a review (shootout) of several metal detectors being used to
find meteorites - irons and stones.  It seems that the older metal
detectors that have trouble with mineralized ground are actually good
with stones.

See here -

http://www.whiteriverprep.com/meteor/madness.html

Best regards,

MikeG


On 4/4/09, Timothy  Heitz <midwest at meteorman.org> wrote:
> Hello List,
>
> Most metal detectors that work great for an iron, will not work well on a
> common H5 or L6 stone.
>
> What metal detector works well with detecting stones
>
>
>
> Thanks,
> Tim Heitz
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


-- 
.........................................................
Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA)
Member of the Meteoritical Society.
Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network.
Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com
..........................................................

From midwest at meteorman.org  Sun Apr  5 00:21:38 2009
From: midwest at meteorman.org (Timothy  Heitz)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 23:21:38 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] What metal detector works well on finding a
	stone meteorite?
References: <be8.4c660094.37093126@aol.com>
	<473C4D88CF5445D7A73BC7A8D8EDA948@owner55652f88b>
	<154B885B9F334049922F7CB4BE25DC4D@Tims>
	<e51421550904042103v1499fb1kb0cf8de8d91b9026@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8C57507D32BA4028A50BE64299D4B32B@Tims>

Thank Mike, Good article


Tim








----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" <meteoritemike at gmail.com>
To: "Timothy Heitz" <midwest at meteorman.org>
Cc: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 11:03 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What metal detector works well on finding a 
stone meteorite?


> Hi Tim and List,
>
> Warning - I am repeating second-hand information, not personal experience.
>
> I've done a lot reading on metal detectors and meteorites lately, and
> I found a review (shootout) of several metal detectors being used to
> find meteorites - irons and stones.  It seems that the older metal
> detectors that have trouble with mineralized ground are actually good
> with stones.
>
> See here -
>
> http://www.whiteriverprep.com/meteor/madness.html
>
> Best regards,
>
> MikeG
>
>
> On 4/4/09, Timothy  Heitz <midwest at meteorman.org> wrote:
>> Hello List,
>>
>> Most metal detectors that work great for an iron, will not work well on a
>> common H5 or L6 stone.
>>
>> What metal detector works well with detecting stones
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Tim Heitz
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>
>
> -- 
> .........................................................
> Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA)
> Member of the Meteoritical Society.
> Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network.
> Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com
> .......................................................... 


From erikfwebb at msn.com  Sun Apr  5 01:00:59 2009
From: erikfwebb at msn.com (Erik Fisler)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 22:00:59 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] What metal detector works well on finding
	a	stone meteorite?
In-Reply-To: <8C57507D32BA4028A50BE64299D4B32B@Tims>
References: <be8.4c660094.37093126@aol.com>
	<473C4D88CF5445D7A73BC7A8D8EDA948@owner55652f88b>
	<154B885B9F334049922F7CB4BE25DC4D@Tims>
	<e51421550904042103v1499fb1kb0cf8de8d91b9026@mail.gmail.com> 
	<8C57507D32BA4028A50BE64299D4B32B@Tims>
Message-ID: <COL119-W31452B2127396500EDDA29A4870@phx.gbl>


Whites 
Minelabs SD2100
Goldbug 2
 
all of the best hunters use
one of these machines when it
comes to H Chondrites like Franconia
and the low metal L chondrites at
Goldbasin.
 
All 3 are very durable and very effective
at a generally low cost ($500 - $1500)
 
Here are some people that use these detectors.
 
GMT- Jim Smaller, Del Waterbury, Stan Santiago, and me of course.
 
Minelabs SD2100- Del Waterbury, Jim Smaller, My father.
 
Goldbug 2 - John Wolfe, Ruben Garcia
 
for great advise on how to use these detectors and 
which work best for what conditions, check out
Bill Southern's Meteorite hunting forum at:
http://www.nuggetshooter.ipbhost.com/index.php?s=03684023296f024d35ff1e3034012e88&showforum=4
im sure you could search their archives and find one
of our discussions on the topic of best detectors.
 
[Erik]

----------------------------------------
> From: midwest at meteorman.org
> To: meteoritemike at gmail.com
> Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 23:21:38 -0500
> CC: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What metal detector works well on finding a stone meteorite?
>
> Thank Mike, Good article
>
>
> Tim
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" 
> To: "Timothy Heitz" 
> Cc: 
> Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 11:03 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What metal detector works well on finding a
> stone meteorite?
>
>
>> Hi Tim and List,
>>
>> Warning - I am repeating second-hand information, not personal experience.
>>
>> I've done a lot reading on metal detectors and meteorites lately, and
>> I found a review (shootout) of several metal detectors being used to
>> find meteorites - irons and stones. It seems that the older metal
>> detectors that have trouble with mineralized ground are actually good
>> with stones.
>>
>> See here -
>>
>> http://www.whiteriverprep.com/meteor/madness.html
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> MikeG
>>
>>
>> On 4/4/09, Timothy Heitz wrote:
>>> Hello List,
>>>
>>> Most metal detectors that work great for an iron, will not work well on a
>>> common H5 or L6 stone.
>>>
>>> What metal detector works well with detecting stones
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Tim Heitz
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> .........................................................
>> Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA)
>> Member of the Meteoritical Society.
>> Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network.
>> Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com
>> ..........................................................
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Sun Apr  5 03:57:06 2009
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2009 00:57:06 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Oh, The Stories They Tell....
In-Reply-To: <A5CD7E17017A48E596C39957080AE222@ET>
References: <A5CD7E17017A48E596C39957080AE222@ET>
Message-ID: <49D86452.2040409@meteoritesusa.com>

It's possible he's lying for the media attention.

But what about the little girl. Is she lying too? Or was she there?



JoshuaTreeMuseum wrote:
> There's a very simple explanation to this story:  the guy's lying!!!   
> How do I know?  Because they always lie!!  Why would you ever assume 
> even for a second that such an outlandish story is true?  I work at a 
> small Earth & Space Museum with a large collection of meteorites.  
> Every single story I've heard from people witnessing falls have been 
> bogus.  At least 10 people in the last year and a half have brought in 
> meteorwrongs that they swear up and down hit their house.  One was so 
> hot that it melted the vinyl siding!  (It was railroad rock.)  One hit 
> the house, went through the roof, bounced around inside awhile, then 
> smashed through the wall and landed outside in the yard. (It was 
> silicon.)  Others have hit houses narrowly missing the occupants. 
> (Slag, klinkers and more silicon).  3 or 4 people have been outside 
> and had to duck to avoid getting hit.  (Hematite and yet more slag.) 
> Several people have come in with stories of seeing very large 
> meteorites hit the ground, explode, form big craters, etc. Every one 
> of these I've checked out has been a meteorwrong.  Often people will 
> bring in non native minerals and swear they found them here in 
> Indiana, or saw them fall from the sky.  I just had a chunk of 
> antimony brought in that was supposedly found 30 feet underground!  My 
> favorite was an older lady that just finished watching a television 
> show about how meteorites are worth millions of dollars, when suddenly 
> she was startled by the sound of something hitting the side of her 
> house. You guessed it,  it was meteorites!   5 of them.  (One was 
> railroad rock, 3 pieces of slag, a chunk of asphalt, and a piece of 
> melted plastic.) Under questioning, not one relented, they all stuck 
> to their stories.  They seemed to really believe their stories.  It's 
> an interesting psychological phenomenon that meteorites (like sex) 
> seem to induce people to tell outrageous stories.
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


-- 
Regards,
Eric Wichman
Meteorites USA
http://www.meteoritesusa.com
904-236-5394


From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Sun Apr  5 04:33:18 2009
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2009 01:33:18 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Suffolk man says he saw meteor hit UPDATE
In-Reply-To: <49D7BB94.5080801@meteoritesusa.com>
References: <49D79F81.7080807@meteoritesusa.com>	<6AA031E3E7CB4AFD9D16FE8D41FFA3EB@bellatrix>	<00b501c9b555$8c6ad8f0$9ef08a5c@Inspiron8200>	<5A650C0CB348490BB1CB424ADCC6D9BF@bellatrix>	<49D7B818.9090701@meteoritesusa.com>
	<49D7BB94.5080801@meteoritesusa.com>
Message-ID: <49D86CCE.5090804@meteoritesusa.com>

Hi all,

Here's a comment on the PilotOnline.com website report:

http://hamptonroads.com/2009/04/suffolk-man-says-he-saw-meteor-hit

UPDATE: Comment Submitted by funtogo on Sat, 04/04/2009 at 5:19 pm.
------------------------------------------
After Joe told me Wednesday night about the sighting, I called the 
Virginian Pilot to give them his name. The Pilot called him. He was not 
so interested in reporting it. He had not read the paper and did not 
know about the hub-bub until Tuesday. He did immediately call a friend 
to tell them what he had seen, but then let it go. He just thought he 
had seen a shooting star. A once in a time event, but not knowing that 
so many others had seen it, he just accepted it as an unusual event. He 
said he looked around and there were no other cars within sight so I 
doubt anyone else saw it. He was returning Sunday night with my 
granddaughter Alana from visiting family in Maryland. He has the toll 
receipt showing that he paid the toll at 9:29 pm. That would put him on 
the bridge about 9:35 assuming the clocks at the toll booth are 
accurate. Could be off a few minutes. Based on reports from those at the 
ocean front saying they saw it in the northwest sky, this would be 
consistant with where it landed. This spot is about half way from 
Maryland and North Carolina where people live that reported the 
sighting. I accept his report as accurate and agree that someone should 
look for it. The water...
------------------------------------------

What if? If the times are correct on the receipts, they correspond to 
the data time and location.

Eric

P.S. Don't forget he did NOT hear the sonic boom, and instead heard the 
loud whistling noise.




Meteorites USA wrote:
> P.S.
>
> His comment "..."The shape of it, it was just too perfect to be a 
> piece of junk.." is also a clue to the speed it was traveling. Could 
> he see the shape clearly enough if it were moving at super sonic 
> speed? In addition he reported he did NOT hear a sonic boom.
>
> Or I could be spending too much time on this and have nothing better 
> to do right now.
>
> Taking a day off is good... ;)
>
> Eric
>
>
>
>
>
> Meteorites USA wrote:
>> There are a few things left out of the report.
>>
>> Duration of the event, distance from his location, angle of decent, 
>> speed and azimuth. If the guy witnessed the entire event from 
>> beginning to end and the fireball was very far away at first 
>> sighting, that explains why he may not have heard the boom. It could 
>> be that it reached the retardation point long before coming close to 
>> him. The whistling noise reported is also intriguing.
>>
>> The report does NOT state that the ball of fire hit the water. Only 
>> that he witnessed a ball of fire.
>>
>> EXCERPT:
>>
>> "The shape of it, it was just too perfect to be a piece of junk. It 
>> looked just like a miniature comet, pretty much," he said. "It was 
>> really, really white with blue flames. It was pretty wild."
>>
>> Butler said he didn't hear the boom, only a whistling roar as the 
>> object flew past. The wind-blown water was really choppy, he added, 
>> but he could see the splash when it landed.."
>>
>>
>> He did give a clue as to the direction of travel although it is 
>> extremely vague as he doesn't say which direction he was looking but 
>> rather the direction he was traveling (SOUTH). He stated the object 
>> was "..coming right at my car.."
>>
>> He could have been looking East or West or in his rear-view mirror 
>> for that matter.
>>
>> The point is it's a eye-witness report, and it's interesting enough 
>> to investigate further.
>>
>> Even if it does turn out to be nothing.
>>
>> Eric
>>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


-- 
Regards,
Eric Wichman
Meteorites USA
http://www.meteoritesusa.com
904-236-5394


From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com  Sun Apr  5 06:16:50 2009
From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 03:16:50 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Men - Science Channel
Message-ID: <COL108-W35BD33B8FC4F3052FDF119B870@phx.gbl>



Hello,

I've found some info regarding this show. Also I've contacted discoverycomunications.com if this show will be airing on any of the other channels (Discovery, History or Travel) in the near future. I will let you know if I receive a reply. In the meantime, maybe others on this list can contact them for requests. Might help if some of you just have basic cable and does not receive the Science Channel like myself.

Carl


http://www.thefutoncritic.com/news.aspx?id=20090331science01

SCIENCE CHANNEL'S METEORITE MEN TAKES VIEWERS ON QUEST FOR EXTRATERRESTRIAL TREASURE
Released by Science Channel

-- New One-Hour Special World Premieres Sunday, May 10, 2009 at 9 PM (ET/PT) --

(Silver Spring, Md.) For thousands of years meteorites have
slammed into the earth's surface, each one carrying an invaluable
record of the very beginnings of the solar system. But finding
meteorites, some buried over centuries by thick layers of dirt and
sediment, is no easy task. Now, Science Channel is bringing viewers on
a search for these alien treasures and revealing these lost pieces of
our universe for the first time in METEORITE MEN, world premiering
Sunday, May 10 at 9 PM (ET/PT). Modern day treasure hunters Geoff Notkin and Steve Arnold have travelled the world for years to search as a team for remnants of ancient meteorites. In METEORITE MEN, viewers find the pair in Brenham,Kansas where for more than a century pieces of a large meteorite that fell thousands of years ago have been unearthed. The farm fields of this area in Kansas are known in the business of meteorite hunting as strewn fields, because the meteor literally breaks into pieces upon entry into the earth's atmosphere and scatters across a very large region. It is a holy ground for anyone searching for meteorites. More have fallen in this area (per square mile) than anywhere in the United States. Using advanced metal
detection equipment Arnold and Notkin work tirelessly to find the
meteorite pieces that have yet to be discovered. When successful, the
team donates a portion of every find to science. Steve Arnold is a professional meteorite hunter and entrepreneur. Since 1992 Arnold has made a career of selling, trading,and brokering meteorites, and worked with many prominent museum curators, scientists and private collectors to help them enhance meteorite collections. Over the years his dedication to making new
discoveries has helped further the study of meteoritics. While
exploring a wheat field in Kiowa County, Kansas, Arnold unearthed a
1,430-pound Brenham meteorite that is the largest oriented pallasite
ever found. Although most of his meteorite hunting and recovery
expeditions have taken place within the United States, his passion for
adventure has taken him to Oman, Chile, London, Paris, Argentina and
Peru. Geoff Notkin is a professional meteorite hunter, science
writer and photographer. He has traveled to more than 40 countries and
some of the world's most remote locations including Chile's Atacama
Desert, Iceland, England, Mexico and the Middle East in search of
elusive and valuable space rocks. He has authored more than 60
published articles on meteoritics, paleontology, adventure travel,
history and the arts and is currently at work on a memoir about his
life as a meteorite hunter. METEORITE MEN is produced for Science Channel by LMNO Cable Group. Eric Schotz and Ruth Rivin are executive producers for LMNO Cable Group and John Grassie is executive producer for Science Channel.
About Science Channel Science Channel is broadcast 24 hours a day and seven days a week to more than 56 million U.S. homes and simulcast on Science
Channel HD. We immerse viewers in the incredible possibilities of
science, from string theory and futuristic cities to accidental
discoveries and outrageous inventions. We take things apart, peer
inside and put things together in new and unexpected ways. We celebrate
the trials, errors and brinking moments that change our lives forever.
To find out more go to www.sciencechannel.com About Discovery Communications
Discovery Communications (Nasdaq: DISCA, DISCB, DISCK) is the
world's number one nonfiction media company reaching more than 1.5
billion cumulative subscribers in 170 countries. Discovery empowers
people to explore their world and satisfy their curiosity through
100-plus worldwide networks, led by Discovery Channel, TLC, Animal
Planet, Science Channel, Planet Green, Investigation Discovery and HD
Theater, as well as leading consumer and educational products and
services, and a diversified portfolio of digital media services
including HowStuffWorks.com. For more information, please visit
www.discoverycommunications.com.







_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync.
http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_allup_1a_explore_042009

From altmann at meteorite-martin.de  Sun Apr  5 06:24:06 2009
From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 12:24:06 +0200
Subject: [meteorite-list] Numa kid to win bit of lunar meteorite
In-Reply-To: <pg9gt4da8cgpkigvuh3jek7bmukg51a648@4ax.com>
References: <49D79F81.7080807@meteoritesusa.com>
	<pg9gt4da8cgpkigvuh3jek7bmukg51a648@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <000a01c9b5d8$ab160440$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2>

NWA 4881 or 4734 display box, of course  :-)

Available at any well-assorted meteorite dealer.
Seeee - it is indeed an educational item. 
(even of each Apollo crew at least one member owns such a box).

Discrete and very unbelievable International-Year-of-Astronomy-2009-offer
for astronomy clubs, schools, planetaria, public observatories, private
museums, lecturers ect.. still stands.
Contact off-list, not forgetting to give your institution/club/purpose the
boxes are meant for.

Best!
Martin & Stefan




-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Darren
Garrison
Gesendet: Sonntag, 5. April 2009 05:41
An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Betreff: [meteorite-list] Numa kid to win bit of lunar meteorite

Wonder if it is a Sahara one, or if NASA is breaking out some of the
Antarctic
stuff?

http://www.lahontanvalleynews.com/article/20090404/NEWS/904049984/1055&Paren
tProfile=1045


Numa students learning about space

Three sixth-grade classes at Numa Elementary School are learning about where
almost no man has gone before.

Teachers Vickie Purrell, Tiffany Allyn and Lisa Solinski and their students
viewed astronauts working at the Space Station on Wednesday morning as part
of
their ongoing science project.




From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Sun Apr  5 09:43:16 2009
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 08:43:16 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] US States & Fed Govt Laws regarding
	prospecting, hiking, boondocking, stargazing, etc.
In-Reply-To: <0cff01c9b4b8$67745870$58768a5c@Inspiron8200>
References: <e51421550904030709l477d196bgfa43558788d2832f@mail.gmail.com>
	<0cff01c9b4b8$67745870$58768a5c@Inspiron8200>
Message-ID: <e51421550904050643v48e6fd99s2a3d15d9df727bdd@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Michael and list -

I have to agree with you on Meteor Crater not being accessible for
prospecting.  A person or business should not be able to own a major
geological feature and deny access and/or use rights to everyone else.
 It's wrong on a deep level.  I guess someone will be purchasing the
Mississippi River next and telling the rest of us to get our boats out
of it. ;)

At the same time, I don't know if governmental ownership is the right
answer either.  Give a government a solid iron ball, and they'll find
a way to pollute it, mismanage it, or disrespect it.   It's a pity
that there is no common sense/respect/decency between human beings
regarding the wonders of nature.  It's a shame that some careless
hunters dug big holes in the desert and left them behind for cattle to
break legs in.  It's a shame that some wealthy industrialist "bought"
a geological feature.  It's a shame that people poach, trespass, and
deceive.  However, it makes little sense to deny prospecting all
across the board because some lunkhead couldn't fill his holes when he
was done.  "Leave no traces" is my ethic when it comes to hiking,
boondocking, camping, and all other interaction with nature - come and
go like the wind.   And it's a shame that others can't follow that
ethic and have ruined it for many of us who would like to access/use
natural areas responsibly.

Well, I can rant and rail against it, but there is no fighting it.
The land around the crater for as far as the eye can see is
off-limits, as Ted Bunch said in his reply.  It's either "Crater
People Land" or it's "Bar T Bar Ranch Land" (or some such) or it's
Arizona State Trust land, so the argument for or against it's use is a
moot one.  Anyone can thumb their nose at the absurdity of it all, but
the risk is jail time, a fine, and a criminal record.  I guess I could
whine about how unfair it is, but I should get in line behind the
indigenous peoples who owned that land for thousands of years before
caucasoid conquerors came and took possession by force.  If I was
American Indian, my feelings would be more valid - as a descendent of
the conquerors, I have little room to complain I guess. (although the
part of me that is Cherokee indian is mildly outraged) ;)

"...and the sign said anybody caught trespassing will be arrested on sight
So I jumped on the fence and yelled at the crater cops, Hey! what
gives you the right
To put up a fence to keep me out or to keep mother nature in
If God was here, he'd tell you to your face, man you're some kinda sinner...."

[/pontificate] [/high horse]

Momma didn't raise a fool and I've never seen the inside of a jail or
the wrong side of a judge, and I want to keep it that way.  So, I'll
swallow my feelings and steer clear of the crater.  I'll go visit like
every other tourist, stay within the permitted areas, park where I am
supposed to, snap some photos, let out a sigh, and then leave.

So, of the areas I asked about, we have this -

1) Meteor Crater - NO prospecting, period.
2) Gold Basin - some areas (near the lake) are off-limits legally, but
the remainder is legal?
3) Nevada tends to be more lenient than Arizona?
4) BLM areas - enforcement or interpretation of the rules varies
according to what individual is administrator of that area?
5) Stay the heck out of Georgia. (cue the banjos)

So, what about - Franconia, Holbrook, and other well-known SW-US strewnfields?

And what about Texas?  Does the recent West episode give the Texans
more reason to let hunters do their thing (with permission) .... ?
Are the old finds like Travis, Forestburg, Tulia, (and dozens of
others) all searched out?

Best regards, happy huntings and clear skies,

MikeG

PS - I have 3 auctions ending tonight - Lunar and Martian meteorite
display, Iron micromount assortment, and "exotic" micromount
assortment (Tata, Norton, Brahin, etc).  2 auctions are still under
$3.

http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/maypickle


On 4/3/09, Michael Bross <element33 at peconic.net> wrote:
> Hello MikeG and List
>
> This is a great idea. When looking at Iridium measuring/testing (haha :)) I
> stumbled upon a
> French metal detector website which summarized well enough laws and
> regulations
> pertaining to "hunting" on private or public land in France: national,
> regional etc...
>
> We know that laws can be "gray" to some extent, but still it is a good
> start.
>
> PS: this should be another thread, but how come a place like the Canyon
> Diablo
> Meteor Crater site is a private enterprise ?!
> I know we talk about USA but still... such a place should be State or
> Federal property, no ?!
> or did I not understand properly your post Mike ?
>
> Good evening everyone
>
> Michael B, France
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" <meteoritemike at gmail.com>
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 4:09 PM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] US States & Fed Govt Laws regarding
> prospecting,hiking, boondocking, stargazing, etc.
>
>
>> Hi Listees!
>>
>> I was reading with great interest the recent list posts about state
>> laws in Arizona and Colorado regarding hunting for meteorites, bird
>> watching, etc.  I don't want some humorless officer with a crewcut and
>> a sharp hat threatening me with jail for stargazing or boondocking, so
>> I'd like to suggest a discussion thread dedicated solely to the laws,
>> and not the ethics, of hunting meteorites on state and federally-owned
>> land.
>>
>> I have a couple of observations and questions I'd like to share with
>> the group and someone please correct me if I am wrong about anything
>> here -
>>
>> I read that one must have a special state license or pass to use
>> certain state lands in Arizona and Colorado - I am assuming this does
>> not apply to pay-for-access areas like State Parks where tourists pay
>> an entry fee and they are allowed to birdwatch and hike within the
>> boundaries of the park.  Also, what about the federal land passes that
>> are available?  If I am in a National Park in Arizona (federal land)
>> and I have a valid federal land pass, does this mean an Arizona state
>> officer can't hassle me on that federal land?  I realize having such a
>> pass does not entitle me to access or use state-owned lands, but am I
>> correct in my assumption that the federal pass takes precedence over
>> the state pass on federally-administered lands?
>>
>> Also, I am assuming that the possession of a state or a federal
>> land-use permit does not grant any privileges in regards to gathering,
>> harvesting, prospecting, or removing natural materials - including
>> fossils, minerals, gold, meteorites, etc.   I have researched the
>> federal land use permits online and it
>> 's pretty clear that they only grant *access* to certain areas and use
>> of certain specific facilities instead of paying a gate fee or entry
>> fee.  It clearly states that no other rights or privileges are granted
>> other than the few specifically mentioned in the terms of the
>> pass/permit.
>>
>> In Florida, where I lived for many years, one can acquire a "fossil
>> permit" from the State which grants certain prospecting and removal
>> rights on certain State-owned lands in Florida.  It only covers
>> fossils, but it's better than a kick in the teeth.  Are there any
>> other states that have similar permits available, and are these
>> permits available to non-residents?
>>
>> I'd like to know, briefly, what risks are involved with prospecting
>> meteorites in the following well-known strewnfields :
>>
>> Gold Basin, Franconia, Holbrook, Glorieta, the Mojave area?
>>
>> It is well-known that the area around Meteor Crater (Canyon Diablo) is
>> off-limits to meteorite prospectors - it is verboten.  But, are there
>> ANY areas in the vicinity of the crater where it is possible to
>> legally prospect for meteorites, assuming the proper permits are in
>> order?  What about smaller private land owners - is any of the land
>> owned by someone who will grant permission to prospect, or is every
>> square inch of land around the Crater off-limits completely?  I find
>> it hard to imagine that an impact event of that size didn't throw some
>> meteorites over and beyond the reach of "Meteor Crater Inc, LLC and
>> it's Subsidiaries" legal team.  Is there no-way a law-abiding citizen
>> can go find a Diablo meteorite, or do I just need to get that out of
>> my head and forget about it?
>>
>> What about Odessa Texas?  Can one legally find meteorites there on
>> public or private lands?  Or is it another Canyon Diablo type of
>> situation around the Odessa Crater?
>>
>> Brenham Kansas?  Off-limits?  Will the farmers look at you cross-ways
>> and rack back the slide on their 10-gauge scattergun when you drive
>> slowly down the road gazing longingly at the rolling fields that
>> conceal pallasitic joy?  Does any of the Brenham strewnfield extend
>> onto public lands?
>>
>> Has anyone ever taken a shot in the dark and looked around Peekskill
>> for the lost stones?  There out there oxidizing away somewhere in the
>> woods or in a lake.
>>
>> What about the other meteorite-laden areas of Texas?  Using the NASA
>> WordlWind plugin for the Met Soc database, it's easy to see that some
>> areas of Texas are peppered with old finds.  Do any of these areas
>> still produce specimens, and which ones can be legally prospected (if
>> any)?  Dawn, Forestburg, Travis, Tulia, etc, etc, etc. ?
>>
>> I ask this endless stream of questions because very soon I will be
>> joining the hunt and I'd like to spend some time combing these old
>> strewnfields for finds - but I want to stay on the right side of the
>> law.  I don't want a trespassing charge and I don't want to go through
>> what Mike and Sonny went through, if I can help it.  When I travel to
>> an area, I want to be very cognizant and respectful of not only the
>> local laws, but the local traditions and culture.  I don't want to
>> inadvertently find myself in a sticky situation with some Wyatt
>> Earp-wannabe sheriff or a trigger-happy landowner with dubious
>> boundaries.  Is all of this just par for the course in meteorite
>> prospecting?
>>
>> Finally, one last question for the group, I have been to TreasureNet
>> and some other places online looking for information regarding the
>> legality of using metal detectors on public land in the various US
>> states.  I couldn't find a simple complete list of the applicable laws
>> in the various states and there seems to be a wide variation between
>> the states.  Does anyone have a weblink they can share that shows a
>> complete list or nationwide summary of the laws?
>>
>> Are these the kinds of questions that wily veteran hunters hate to
>> hear newbies ask because it means increased competition for finds in
>> the long run? ;)
>>
>> Best regards, clear skies, and happy huntings,
>>
>> MikeG

.........................................................
Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA)
Member of the Meteoritical Society.
Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network.
Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com
..........................................................

From GeoZay at aol.com  Sun Apr  5 09:51:11 2009
From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 09:51:11 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Oh, The Stories They Tell....
Message-ID: <c08.5ae7a42c.370a114f@aol.com>


>>But what about the little girl. Is  she lying too? Or was she there?>>

I have little doubt that the man  and little girl saw either the bright 
meteor in the sky at some point or was  responding to their surroundings being lit 
up by it. It doesn't take a very  bright fireball to produce shadows on the 
ground. I know I've seen shadows  produced by at least a -6 fireball and if I 
was really looking for it, I  probably would have noticed shadows for meteors a 
magnitude or two dimmer.   In the reports that I've read, the little girl was 
simply quoted as saying  something like,  "What was that?" All the other stuff 
came from the man.  I'm convinced the man either intentionally or unknowingly 
embellish his story. I  think if this thing hit the water while still 
incandescent, the big story might  be something like, "Did you see that big splash?" 
or " Traffic Stalled Due to  Damage To a Bridge".   :O)  If anybody has any 
plans to look for  meteorites based on what this man said, I'd highly recommend 
you save your money  for the next time when the stories make sense. This event 
has a real good chance  to drop a meteorite somewhere...probably in the 
ocean, but not between these two  bridges. 
GeoZay  

**************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store?  Make dinner for $10 or 
less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001)

From GeoZay at aol.com  Sun Apr  5 10:08:24 2009
From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 10:08:24 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] US States & Fed Govt Laws regarding
	prospecting, hiking, ...
Message-ID: <d19.3c1c3e01.370a1558@aol.com>

>>I have to agree with you on Meteor  Crater not being accessible for
prospecting.  A person or business  should not be able to own a major
geological feature and deny access and/or  use rights to everyone else.
It's wrong on a deep level. <<

It  would be even more wrong for everyone having use rights to something I 
view as  being a National Treasure at least. Meteor Crater is just that unique 
to be  protected from that never ending stream of meteorite hunters. After 
seeing how  things that are run by governments get runned down, I'm glad to see a 
private  enterprise is doing the overseeing. If folks were allowed to search 
for  meteorites in and around Meteor Crater, it probably wouldn't take too many 
years  for the place to look a mess. Trails and dirt roads coming from all 
directions  leading to dug out holes all over the place. 

>> I guess someone  will be purchasing the
Mississippi River next and telling the rest of us to  get our boats out
of it. ;)<<

Probably not, but if someone did,  most likely you'll still be paying the 
same boating fees as before. But I'm sure  the government has this river 
regulated already. So we now have inadequate  levees, dikes and what have you to take 
care of flooding. 

GeoZay  

**************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store?  Make dinner for $10 or 
less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001)

From meteoritics at gmail.com  Sun Apr  5 10:15:25 2009
From: meteoritics at gmail.com (Bill Hall)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 07:15:25 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] What metal detector works well on finding a stone
	meteorite?
Message-ID: <883a36d30904050715ubeeff36u72f3af1d0a893bf2@mail.gmail.com>

I would get a gold bug for detecting very small bits if Iron, however
to Rubens surprise as well as another meteorite hunter I know (who is
not a list member) I found an old weathered chondrite with my Minelab
Eureka Gold. The Minelab is very controversial machine it seems, but I
really like mine, and think the people who are unhappy with them
simply don't understand how to use them. Many humans are strangely
unable to grasp simple concepts and follow directions. Always take a
test meteorite with you and tune your detecter to pick it up, If you
have it set to pick up an L chondrite it will get the H chondrites as
well.

Example: I swear this happened yesterday! A customer called me ( who
lives in Alaska) and said she had no water in her motor home. The RV
park manager had already told her the supply hose to her RV was
FROZEN, and had disconnected it for her. When I arrived I explained to
her to simply bring the hose inside for a few hours to let it thaw out
and everything would be OK. Several hours later she calls frantically
exclaiming she still has no water!! OH Dear! I asked her to unhook it
from the RV and see if water would come out of the hose? She finally
understood what I meant and tried it. Nope, no water, ( I was watching
her from across the park and could tell she didn't turn on the faucet,
so after a few more minuets I taught her all about the way a water
faucet works. Yea!! now she has water.........god I hope she knows
what to do with it.


            Good luck! Bill

From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Sun Apr  5 10:43:00 2009
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 09:43:00 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] US States & Fed Govt Laws regarding
	prospecting, hiking, ...
In-Reply-To: <d19.3c1c3e01.370a1558@aol.com>
References: <d19.3c1c3e01.370a1558@aol.com>
Message-ID: <e51421550904050743o67e6da4cg80736f9a77f13a3d@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Geozay,

True.  I have to agree.  It's a pity we don't have a "respectful
naturalist permit" that would allow the people with common sense to
access these areas.  Four-wheelers, throngs of hole-digging hunters,
and litter-tossing gawkers would be a bad thing.  One can legally go
into some of these areas with a firearm and slay a living creature
with the blessing of the law, but one can't bend down and pick up an
oxidizing piece of natural iron because large numbers of selfish
people ruined it for all of us.

I guess I'll just keep beating my head against the table trying to
make it seem logical. ;)

It's a no-win situation.  Either it would be too tightly-controlled or
it would be too loosely-controlled.  Each outcome would not be ideal.
The current state of affairs is far from ideal as well, so I don't see
the harm in allowing some change.  Perhaps opening up the area for
prospecting by permit only and issue a limited number of permits - as
opposed to the zero permits issued now.

And besides, how many meteorite hunters would come crawling out of the
woodworks and crowd the desert looking for irons around the crater?  I
seriously doubt people are knocking down the doors to get out into the
desert and walk around for hours under the pummeling sun looking for
pieces for rust.  There are only so many of us crazy enough to find
that idea enticing.  I'd doubt we'd see another situation like the one
in our biggest national parks where people are lined up 20 deep by the
hundreds every day to watch a geyser erupt.

Best regards,

MikeG




On 4/5/09, GeoZay at aol.com <GeoZay at aol.com> wrote:
>>>I have to agree with you on Meteor  Crater not being accessible for
> prospecting.  A person or business  should not be able to own a major
> geological feature and deny access and/or  use rights to everyone else.
> It's wrong on a deep level. <<
>
> It  would be even more wrong for everyone having use rights to something I
> view as  being a National Treasure at least. Meteor Crater is just that
> unique
> to be  protected from that never ending stream of meteorite hunters. After
> seeing how  things that are run by governments get runned down, I'm glad to
> see a
> private  enterprise is doing the overseeing. If folks were allowed to search
> for  meteorites in and around Meteor Crater, it probably wouldn't take too
> many
> years  for the place to look a mess. Trails and dirt roads coming from all
> directions  leading to dug out holes all over the place.
>
>>> I guess someone  will be purchasing the
> Mississippi River next and telling the rest of us to  get our boats out
> of it. ;)<<
>
> Probably not, but if someone did,  most likely you'll still be paying the
> same boating fees as before. But I'm sure  the government has this river
> regulated already. So we now have inadequate  levees, dikes and what have
> you to take
> care of flooding.
>
> GeoZay
>
> **************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store?  Make dinner for $10
> or
> less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001)
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


-- 
.........................................................
Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA)
Member of the Meteoritical Society.
Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network.
Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com
..........................................................

From GeoZay at aol.com  Sun Apr  5 11:00:12 2009
From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 11:00:12 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] US States & Fed Govt Laws regarding
	prospecting, hiking, ...
Message-ID: <ceb.5570a8de.370a217c@aol.com>


>>And besides, how many meteorite  hunters would come crawling out of the
woodworks and crowd the desert looking  for irons around the crater?  I
seriously doubt people are knocking down  the doors to get out into the
desert and walk around for hours under the  pummeling sun looking for
pieces for rust.  There are only so many of us  crazy enough to find
that idea enticing. <<

Over time, you never  know how many folks will become instant or weekend 
Meteorite hunting experts. If  dealers/sellers have no qualms about dicing and 
slicing meteorites into tiny  jiblets just so they can be sold, what is there to 
stop them from getting  aggressive out around and inside the crater if they 
were allowed to hunt?   The general public now sees meteorites as something with 
value. That impression  has been planted by dealers and collectors over the 
years no doubt. So they will  most likely hunt the known meteorite mother lode 
areas and one of the best well  known areas would be Meteor Crater. 


>> I'd doubt we'd see  another situation like the one
in our biggest national parks where people are  lined up 20 deep by the
hundreds every day to watch a geyser  erupt.<<

True...but you are standing on a wooden platform and no  one is allowed to 
chip off pieces of the geyser. 
GeoZay  

**************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store?  Make dinner for $10 or 
less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001)

From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Sun Apr  5 11:25:38 2009
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 10:25:38 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] US States & Fed Govt Laws regarding
	prospecting, hiking, ...
In-Reply-To: <ceb.5570a8de.370a217c@aol.com>
References: <ceb.5570a8de.370a217c@aol.com>
Message-ID: <e51421550904050825h1a1241e1g9da5010cca5911a4@mail.gmail.com>

The thing is, plenty of people apparently ignore the laws and prospect
around Canyon Diablo.  And what ruin has been brought upon the area
from it?  An eBay search yields countless Diablo specimens of all
types available, starting at a nickel and running to hundreds of
dollars each.  I doubt every single one of these specimens was
gathered before Barringer staked his claim, Bar T Bar established
their boundaries and the state of AZ placed the land in trust.
People, probably in considerable numbers, are illegally gathering
Diablos right now as we sit discussing this.  Are ranchers losing
cattle left and right because of it?  Is the desert around the crater
strewn with coke bottles and cigarette butts? Are people falling over
themselves and making the local paper on a daily basis or weekly
basis?  Unless I am wrong (entirely likely!), the state allowing a few
dozen permits a year to gather meteorites wouldn't open the floodgates
to ruin.  I guess what bothers me is the apparent arbitrary nature of
the prohibition.  There are other areas of the country that are more
friendly towards non-commercial prospecting - Crater of Diamonds
Arkansas comes to mind.

I just wish there was some sane middle ground between rampant
prospecting and complete prohibition.  Afterall, the science being
done at the crater is not curing cancer - it's rewriting impact
mechanics and it's related geological ramifications.  Microscopic
Venusian fossils are not hiding in Diablo irons.  The area around the
crater could be opened up a little without noticeable negative effect
I think.  Those that would abuse that or ruin it for all of us, should
be deterred - not those who are willing to be responsible.

Well, like I said, it's all moot.  It's off limits to anyone who
doesn't want to break the law.

Best regards,

MikeG




On 4/5/09, GeoZay at aol.com <GeoZay at aol.com> wrote:
>
>>>And besides, how many meteorite  hunters would come crawling out of the
> woodworks and crowd the desert looking  for irons around the crater?  I
> seriously doubt people are knocking down  the doors to get out into the
> desert and walk around for hours under the  pummeling sun looking for
> pieces for rust.  There are only so many of us  crazy enough to find
> that idea enticing. <<
>
> Over time, you never  know how many folks will become instant or weekend
> Meteorite hunting experts. If  dealers/sellers have no qualms about dicing
> and
> slicing meteorites into tiny  jiblets just so they can be sold, what is
> there to
> stop them from getting  aggressive out around and inside the crater if they
> were allowed to hunt?   The general public now sees meteorites as something
> with
> value. That impression  has been planted by dealers and collectors over the
> years no doubt. So they will  most likely hunt the known meteorite mother
> lode
> areas and one of the best well  known areas would be Meteor Crater.
>
>
>>> I'd doubt we'd see  another situation like the one
> in our biggest national parks where people are  lined up 20 deep by the
> hundreds every day to watch a geyser  erupt.<<
>
> True...but you are standing on a wooden platform and no  one is allowed to
> chip off pieces of the geyser.
> GeoZay
>
> **************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store?  Make dinner for $10
> or
> less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001)
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


-- 
.........................................................
Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA)
Member of the Meteoritical Society.
Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network.
Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com
..........................................................

From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Sun Apr  5 14:17:00 2009
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2009 11:17:00 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Questions about accretion.
Message-ID: <49D8F59C.6080200@meteoritesusa.com>

Hi all,

I love asking questions because I learn cool stuff! ;) How bout these...

How long does the formation of meteoroid bodies and larger asteroids take?

How does the iron migrate to the core?

Do all "large" asteroids consist of an iron core surrounded by lighter 
materials further towards the asteroids surface?

I understand the basic process of accretion, however I'm still a bit 
perplexed as to how the iron condenses into such a solid structure at a 
large asteroids center. Is this due in part to impacts with other 
meteoroidal (is that a word?) and asteroidal bodies, compacting the 
mineral structures into denser and denser materials toward the core?

I'm familiar with how much force an impact can have when two larger 
bodies collide. But maybe I'm going in the wrong direction with this. If 
a meteoroid is a small part of a larger asteroid, wouldn't all asteroids 
once have been meteoroids by definition during their formation within 
solar nebulae?

-- 
Regards,
Eric Wichman
Meteorites USA
http://www.meteoritesusa.com
904-236-5394


From GeoZay at aol.com  Sun Apr  5 15:19:09 2009
From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 15:19:09 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Questions about accretion.
Message-ID: <be6.483742dc.370a5e2d@aol.com>


>>How long does the formation of  meteoroid bodies and larger asteroids 
take?<<

I really don't know,  but gonna throw out a guess. I'm assuming that in the 
beginning of star and  planet formation, there is a lot of dust around. I 
recall an experiment aboard  one of the Shuttles or space station where a lot of 
fine material such as talcum  powder was floating around weightless in a 
container. I guess there was  amazement about how this material was clumping very 
fast due to electrostatic  charges. Based on that scenario, I'd have to guess 
that we can expect to see  fist sized clumps in about a month maybe? I'd imagine 
eventually gravity itself  will have to get into the picture as well. Overall, 
I wouldn't think it would  take too many years for asteroid sized bodies to 
form...as long as there are a  lot of raw material available.  

>>How does the iron migrate  to the core?<<

Again I don't really know, but will throw out a  guess for someone to work me 
over with. :O) I'm assuming that the iron will have  to melt in order for 
this differentiation to occur. I guess there will also have  to be a minimum 
sized asteroid in order for iron to melt so it can migrate.  Okay...what could 
melt the iron then? Things that comes to mind is the heat from  radioactive 
elements; Heat from compression; heat generated if the asteroid is  in a strong 
magnetic field around the sun (like the moon Io around Jupiter); and  heat from 
impacts as well. then it becomes sorta like gold in a pan...the  heavies at the 
bottom or middle and lighter material on top...but in this case  without the 
melting. 

>>Do all "large" asteroids consist of an iron  core surrounded by lighter 
materials further towards the asteroids  surface?<<

My guess...if there was some internal melting, I'd say  yes.


>> If a meteoroid is a small part of a larger asteroid,  wouldn't all 
asteroids 
once have been meteoroids by definition during their  formation within 
solar nebulae?<<

I'd say yes to those that  formed from dust. But if a solar nebula is the 
remnants of previous stars that  went supernova, I would imagine there could be a 
fair amount of asteroids left  over from that explosion as well. I don't 
really know. If that was right, I'd  expect to hear about a few meteorites that 
were older than our solar  system...unless our solar system formation began very 
fast after it's source of  material from a supernova occurred showing a near 
similar age.
GeoZay  

**************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store?  Make dinner for $10 or 
less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001)

From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Sun Apr  5 15:52:46 2009
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2009 12:52:46 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Questions about accretion.
In-Reply-To: <be6.483742dc.370a5e2d@aol.com>
References: <be6.483742dc.370a5e2d@aol.com>
Message-ID: <49D90C0E.4030108@meteoritesusa.com>

Thanks for the responses thus far...

I've studied lots of material and scientific papers on accretion, but 
still have some questions. The gravity explanation is great, but it's a 
little vague. I want to know what causes it I guess at the molecular 
level. What physical forces and interactions cause the iron to migrate 
into such a solid mass at the core?

If gravity alone were the case, why is it we have H and L chondrites at 
all? Everything would be one big clump of mixed material. Has the iron 
not had a chance yet to migrate out of this layer of rock to the center 
of the asteroid? I know H and L chondrites are meteoroids that have 
broken off the parent bodies but my question is simply, had they not 
been blasted off the main body, how long would it take and in what 
manner would the iron have migrated from these layers of rock to the 
core? Iron doesn't just move through stone without some sort of catalyst 
or outside force does it? Gravity itself is not sufficient to move iron 
through a stone matrix no matter how much time passes is it? If there 
are no impacts or outside forces acting upon the body how does the iron 
loose itself from the grasp of the stone matrix to move through toward 
the core? Impacts?

At the beginning of the formation of a meteoroid is it electrostatic 
attraction that causes it to get larger? At what size does it produce 
it's own gravity? Or does it? How does and asteroid become so dense? If 
asteroids are super dense, and comets are loosely bound material and 
gases, would that mean that asteroids are dead comets?

Wow! I know that a lot of questions. sorry... ;)

Eric



From erikfwebb at msn.com  Sun Apr  5 15:57:35 2009
From: erikfwebb at msn.com (Erik Fisler)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 12:57:35 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] What metal detector works well on finding a
 stone	meteorite?
In-Reply-To: <883a36d30904050715ubeeff36u72f3af1d0a893bf2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <883a36d30904050715ubeeff36u72f3af1d0a893bf2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <COL119-W4939432FAC4574028FE60EA4870@phx.gbl>


Iv'e watched my dad pullout 1g chondrites with his Minelabs SD2100 with the Mono Joey Coil.
 
[Erik]

----------------------------------------
> Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 07:15:25 -0700
> From: meteoritics at gmail.com
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: [meteorite-list] What metal detector works well on finding a stone meteorite?
>
> I would get a gold bug for detecting very small bits if Iron, however
> to Rubens surprise as well as another meteorite hunter I know (who is
> not a list member) I found an old weathered chondrite with my Minelab
> Eureka Gold. The Minelab is very controversial machine it seems, but I
> really like mine, and think the people who are unhappy with them
> simply don't understand how to use them. Many humans are strangely
> unable to grasp simple concepts and follow directions. Always take a
> test meteorite with you and tune your detecter to pick it up, If you
> have it set to pick up an L chondrite it will get the H chondrites as
> well.
>
> Example: I swear this happened yesterday! A customer called me ( who
> lives in Alaska) and said she had no water in her motor home. The RV
> park manager had already told her the supply hose to her RV was
> FROZEN, and had disconnected it for her. When I arrived I explained to
> her to simply bring the hose inside for a few hours to let it thaw out
> and everything would be OK. Several hours later she calls frantically
> exclaiming she still has no water!! OH Dear! I asked her to unhook it
> from the RV and see if water would come out of the hose? She finally
> understood what I meant and tried it. Nope, no water, ( I was watching
> her from across the park and could tell she didn't turn on the faucet,
> so after a few more minuets I taught her all about the way a water
> faucet works. Yea!! now she has water.........god I hope she knows
> what to do with it.
>
>
> Good luck! Bill
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

From mojave_meteorites at cox.net  Sun Apr  5 16:45:07 2009
From: mojave_meteorites at cox.net (Rob Matson)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 13:45:07 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Questions about accretion.
In-Reply-To: <49D8F59C.6080200@meteoritesusa.com>
Message-ID: <GOEDJOCBMMEHLEFDHGMMIEALDMAA.mojave_meteorites@cox.net>

Hi Eric,

I'll take a stab at a few of your questions:

> How long does the formation of meteoroid bodies and larger asteroids take?

This is not an easy question, as there were many processes at work during
the early solar system -- some constructive (gravitational/electrostatic
clumping), some destructive (high velocity impacts between clumps), and
the time it would take to form, say, a 100-km sized body would depend on
the initial quantity of dust in the pre-solar nebula. I don't know how long
planetary scientists believe it took to form 1-km-sized bodies, but it
was at least hundreds of thousands of years, probably longer. But when
do you "start the clock"? When what became the solar system was just a
molecular cloud, when the protostar formed, or tens of millions of years
later when the protostar transitioned from T-Tauri stage to main sequence
burning?)

Whichever you choose, once you have asteroids a kilometer or so in size,
barring collision with other such bodies they would continue to accrete at
a rate of centimeters per year. So it would still take more than a million
years to grow from 1-km to 100-km size.

> How does the iron migrate to the core?

Through the combination of porosity, heat and gravity. If you start
with a glass of finely crushed ice and let it melt, the water doesn't
stay put in the ice matrix -- it settles to the bottom (since water
is denser than ice).

> Do all "large" asteroids consist of an iron core surrounded by
> lighter materials further towards the asteroids surface?

Yes, beyond a certain size nearly all should. One way to create an
exception might be to have a large, already-differentiated asteroid
get impacted by a smaller one in such a way that its iron core
remains intact, but a portion of the outer rocky shell is blown
off. Any large fragments of the original differentiated asteroid
would then be depleted in iron/nickel.

--Rob


From jkg2 at cox.net  Sun Apr  5 19:54:44 2009
From: jkg2 at cox.net (John Gwilliam)
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2009 16:54:44 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Oh, The Stories They Tell....
In-Reply-To: <A5CD7E17017A48E596C39957080AE222@ET>
References: <A5CD7E17017A48E596C39957080AE222@ET>
Message-ID: <20090405235449.QXUC4363.fed1rmmtao103.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net>

A good indication that there is a great need in this country for 
Prozac maintenance programs and extended three-times-a-week 
counseling. Even though I ducked out of the business three years ago, 
I still get calls from people with the same fantasy tales of 
witnessed impacts and meteorites in craters so big thay can't be 
moved. When I ask for more details or pictures the conversations 
become really bizarre.

Best,
John

At 02:06 PM 4/4/2009, JoshuaTreeMuseum wrote:
>There's a very simple explanation to this story:  the guy's 
>lying!!!   How do I know?  Because they always lie!!  Why would you 
>ever assume even for a second that such an outlandish story is 
>true?  I work at a small Earth & Space Museum with a large 
>collection of meteorites.  Every single story I've heard from people 
>witnessing falls have been bogus.  At least 10 people in the last 
>year and a half have brought in meteorwrongs that they swear up and 
>down hit their house.  One was so hot that it melted the vinyl 
>siding!  (It was railroad rock.)  One hit the house, went through 
>the roof, bounced around inside awhile, then smashed through the 
>wall and landed outside in the yard. (It was silicon.)  Others have 
>hit houses narrowly missing the occupants. (Slag, klinkers and more 
>silicon).  3 or 4 people have been outside and had to duck to avoid 
>getting hit.  (Hematite and yet more slag.) Several people have come 
>in with stories of seeing very large meteorites hit the ground, 
>explode, form big craters, etc. Every one of these I've checked out 
>has been a meteorwrong.  Often people will bring in non native 
>minerals and swear they found them here in Indiana, or saw them fall 
>from the sky.  I just had a chunk of antimony brought in that was 
>supposedly found 30 feet underground!  My favorite was an older lady 
>that just finished watching a television show about how meteorites 
>are worth millions of dollars, when suddenly she was startled by the 
>sound of something hitting the side of her house. You guessed 
>it,  it was meteorites!   5 of them.  (One was railroad rock, 3 
>pieces of slag, a chunk of asphalt, and a piece of melted plastic.) 
>Under questioning, not one relented, they all stuck to their 
>stories.  They seemed to really believe their stories.  It's an 
>interesting psychological phenomenon that meteorites (like sex) seem 
>to induce people to tell outrageous stories.
>______________________________________________
>http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>Meteorite-list mailing list
>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

John Gwilliam

Too many people were born on third base
and go through life thinking they hit a triple. 


From Vortex at Verizon.net  Sun Apr  5 21:08:26 2009
From: Vortex at Verizon.net (Julie Brown)
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2009 21:08:26 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Questions about accretion.
In-Reply-To: <49D90C0E.4030108@meteoritesusa.com>
References: <be6.483742dc.370a5e2d@aol.com>
	<49D90C0E.4030108@meteoritesusa.com>
Message-ID: <C23E64FAA4494EF68F6925DD04BD59C2@QUBIT>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Meteorites USA" <eric at meteoritesusa.com>
To: <GeoZay at aol.com>; <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 3:52 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Questions about accretion.


> Thanks for the responses thus far...
> 
> I've studied lots of material and scientific papers on accretion, but 
> still have some questions. The gravity explanation is great, but it's a 
> little vague. I want to know what causes it I guess at the molecular 
> level. What physical forces and interactions cause the iron to migrate 
> into such a solid mass at the core?
> 
> If gravity alone were the case, why is it we have H and L chondrites at 
> all? Everything would be one big clump of mixed material. Has the iron 
> not had a chance yet to migrate out of this layer of rock to the center 
> of the asteroid? I know H and L chondrites are meteoroids that have 
> broken off the parent bodies but my question is simply, had they not 
> been blasted off the main body, how long would it take and in what 
> manner would the iron have migrated from these layers of rock to the 
> core? Iron doesn't just move through stone without some sort of catalyst 
> or outside force does it? Gravity itself is not sufficient to move iron 
> through a stone matrix no matter how much time passes is it? If there 
> are no impacts or outside forces acting upon the body how does the iron 
> loose itself from the grasp of the stone matrix to move through toward 
> the core? Impacts?
> 
> At the beginning of the formation of a meteoroid is it electrostatic 
> attraction that causes it to get larger? At what size does it produce 
> it's own gravity? Or does it? How does and asteroid become so dense? If 
> asteroids are super dense, and comets are loosely bound material and 
> gases, would that mean that asteroids are dead comets?
> 
> Wow! I know that a lot of questions. sorry... ;)
> 
> Eric
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


From midwest at meteorman.org  Sun Apr  5 21:17:59 2009
From: midwest at meteorman.org (Timothy  Heitz)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 20:17:59 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Men TV Show - New Meteor Crater Book -
	Catalog Updates
References: <d19.3c1c3e01.370a1558@aol.com>
Message-ID: <2842E45D77114A94959B175801B459C8@Tims>


Hello,

Great stuff,  I placed my orders

Thanks,
Tim Heitz










Hello Everyone,

Jim has finished the 3rd Edition and much expanded version of his Meteor 
Crater Book. This book is a must for anyone interested in Meteor Crater.
http://www.meteorites-for-sale.com/catalog/books/meteor-crater.html

Our good friends Geoffrey Notkin and Steve Arnold have a new TV Special on 
Meteorites. The SCIENCE CHANNEL'S METEORITE MEN TAKES VIEWERS ON QUEST FOR 
EXTRATERRESTRIAL TREASURE which is a new one-hour show which premieres 
Sunday, May 10, 2009 at 9 PM (ET/PT).  We were able to acquire a few of the 
limited edition collectible featuring a part slice of the famous Brenham, 
Kansas pallasite which we are offering here.
http://www.meteorites-for-sale.com/catalog/brenham.html

More information on the TV Special here
http://www.thefutoncritic.com/news.aspx?id=20090331science01

We've also added many new meteorites to our catalog so if you've not vised 
in the last month please have a look.
http://www.meteorites-for-sale.com/catalog/

Some of you may have noticed that we are not offering discount coupons 
anymore.  Some people had difficulty on where to enter the code and some 
people lost or forgot to use the coupon so we replaced it with a 10% 
Discount anytime the cart total is over $100.  We also wanted a way to help 
with the cost of shipping to our International Customers.

Best Wishes!

Paul and Jim



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you wish to unsubscribe the newsletter, please visit the following URL:
http://www.meteorites-for-sale.com/catalog/mail/unsubscribe.php?email=midwestmeteor at earthlink.net&listid=4
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for using our shopping system
Paul and Jim
The Meteorite Exchange, Inc.
URL: www.meteorites-for-sale.com


From Vortex at Verizon.net  Sun Apr  5 21:43:00 2009
From: Vortex at Verizon.net (Julie Brown)
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2009 21:43:00 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Sorry all.  Multi-tasking has its drawbacks
In-Reply-To: <49D90C0E.4030108@meteoritesusa.com>
References: <be6.483742dc.370a5e2d@aol.com>
	<49D90C0E.4030108@meteoritesusa.com>
Message-ID: <443528518CA6410392551A87B9DC6D3E@QUBIT>


Hello Eric and Meteorite List,

Robert Matson makes a key point on this question:  How does the iron migrate
to the core?

"Through the combination of porosity, heat and gravity. If you start
with a glass of finely crushed ice and let it melt, the water doesn't
stay put in the ice matrix -- it settles to the bottom (since water
is denser than ice)."

This establishes the hole in the dyck.  However, at the atomic level of
minerals in a spinning motion, accretion is a natural result, as the motion
of the bodies pull particles in a spiral 'wake' after them adding either to
a larger, grabby neighbor, or themselves if close to a Kirkwood Gap, for
example. Several points need consideration:

1. Centripetal force (inward) plays a role since we are dealing with objects
in motion, both rotating and revolving....each asteroid in it's own orbit,
( we are dealing with celestial mechanics in a chaotic area of our Solar
System),
these objects, specifically relating to iron, move in an orbit producing a
net force acting towards the center which causes the object to seek the
center.

2. The scientific consensus seems to be that the Yarkovsky Effect, by
heating the asteroids in the presence of the sun and cooling them in it's
absence, accounts for the differentiation and location of the various
asteroid types in the belt according to composition.

3  Understanding the 'transcient'  nature of minerals due to heat (mentioned
by Robert) and pressure, not so much gravity directly.  Two minerals can
have the exact molecular structure and, based on their respective
circumstances, heat, pressure, cooling time, result in two completely
different minerals.   (Until exposed to other dynamic processes, e. g.,
simple increase in pressure with accretion of cosmic particles over time,
changes in angular momentum, etc. of these unevenly balanced creatures
account for some weird dynamics in this wild bunch.

Not an expert,

Someone please chime in,

Thanks for your indulgence,

Julie


> How does the iron migrate to the core?


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Meteorites USA" <eric at meteoritesusa.com>
To: <GeoZay at aol.com>; <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 3:52 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Questions about accretion.


> Thanks for the responses thus far...
>
> I've studied lots of material and scientific papers on accretion, but
> still have some questions. The gravity explanation is great, but it's a
> little vague. I want to know what causes it I guess at the molecular
> level. What physical forces and interactions cause the iron to migrate
> into such a solid mass at the core?
>
> If gravity alone were the case, why is it we have H and L chondrites at
> all? Everything would be one big clump of mixed material. Has the iron not
> had a chance yet to migrate out of this layer of rock to the center of the
> asteroid? I know H and L chondrites are meteoroids that have broken off
> the parent bodies but my question is simply, had they not been blasted off
> the main body, how long would it take and in what manner would the iron
> have migrated from these layers of rock to the core? Iron doesn't just
> move through stone without some sort of catalyst or outside force does it?
> Gravity itself is not sufficient to move iron through a stone matrix no
> matter how much time passes is it? If there are no impacts or outside
> forces acting upon the body how does the iron loose itself from the grasp
> of the stone matrix to move through toward the core? Impacts?
>
> At the beginning of the formation of a meteoroid is it electrostatic
> attraction that causes it to get larger? At what size does it produce it's
> own gravity? Or does it? How does and asteroid become so dense? If
> asteroids are super dense, and comets are loosely bound material and
> gases, would that mean that asteroids are dead comets?
>
> Wow! I know that a lot of questions. sorry... ;)
>
> Eric
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>



From grf2 at verizon.net  Sun Apr  5 21:52:07 2009
From: grf2 at verizon.net (Jerry Flaherty)
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2009 21:52:07 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] US States & Fed Govt Laws
 regarding	prospecting, hiking, ...
References: <d19.3c1c3e01.370a1558@aol.com>
Message-ID: <600B2B32496340A98F0329A03205C94D@ASUS>

I must agree with youi 100% Geo.
Having had the opportunity, to visit and explore the crater with the 
Meteoritical Society in 2007, I was extremely satisfied with the 
maintainence of the site and the balance achieved between accessibility and 
preservation.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <GeoZay at aol.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 10:08 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] US States & Fed Govt Laws regarding 
prospecting, hiking, ...


>>>I have to agree with you on Meteor  Crater not being accessible for
> prospecting.  A person or business  should not be able to own a major
> geological feature and deny access and/or  use rights to everyone else.
> It's wrong on a deep level. <<
>
> It  would be even more wrong for everyone having use rights to something I
> view as  being a National Treasure at least. Meteor Crater is just that 
> unique
> to be  protected from that never ending stream of meteorite hunters. After
> seeing how  things that are run by governments get runned down, I'm glad 
> to see a
> private  enterprise is doing the overseeing. If folks were allowed to 
> search
> for  meteorites in and around Meteor Crater, it probably wouldn't take too 
> many
> years  for the place to look a mess. Trails and dirt roads coming from all
> directions  leading to dug out holes all over the place.
>
>>> I guess someone  will be purchasing the
> Mississippi River next and telling the rest of us to  get our boats out
> of it. ;)<<
>
> Probably not, but if someone did,  most likely you'll still be paying the
> same boating fees as before. But I'm sure  the government has this river
> regulated already. So we now have inadequate  levees, dikes and what have 
> you to take
> care of flooding.
>
> GeoZay
>
> **************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store?  Make dinner for $10 
> or
> less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001)
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 


From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Sun Apr  5 22:19:21 2009
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 21:19:21 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] US States & Fed Govt Laws regarding
	prospecting, hiking, ...
In-Reply-To: <600B2B32496340A98F0329A03205C94D@ASUS>
References: <d19.3c1c3e01.370a1558@aol.com>
	<600B2B32496340A98F0329A03205C94D@ASUS>
Message-ID: <e51421550904051919j7a9f718cn7c2e86859284e392@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Jerry and list,

I am not trying to be difficult, but when you say "preservation", how
does letting undiscovered irons rot away in the field amount to
preservation?  Canyon Diablo was a massive impact event and there was
a considerable amount of material generated from it - I think there is
enough to sustain a limited campaign of responsible prospecting.  This
would encourage the gathering and reporting of new find data and it
would generate new specimens for study and the marketplace.  How many
"legal" individuals or teams are out gathering Canyon Diablo specimens
right now and what are they doing with them?  Are they collecting new
specimens and "preserving" them?

If an individual is willing to demonstate good ethic and
responsibility by reporting find data and specimens, then where is the
harm in issuing permits?  It wouldn't involve changing the law, the
provisions are already there for the permits - it's just a matter of
convincing someone to start issuing them.  Wholesale and sloppy
prospecting of any kind (fossil, meteorite, mineral, etc) should be
discouraged and those types will break the law and ignore the rules
regardless of what the state or Fed says.  If someone with a permit
starts selling their specimens as part of a business, then the permit
could be revoked.  Abuse of the permit, not filling holes, leaving
gates open, dumping, etc, would also be considerd grounds for
revocation of permission.

Well, it's all daydreaming because it's not going to change
apparently.  It's still legal to take photos, right?  Or does that
require a permit too? ;)

Regards and clear skies,

MikeG


On 4/5/09, Jerry Flaherty <grf2 at verizon.net> wrote:
> I must agree with youi 100% Geo.
> Having had the opportunity, to visit and explore the crater with the
> Meteoritical Society in 2007, I was extremely satisfied with the
> maintainence of the site and the balance achieved between accessibility and
> preservation.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <GeoZay at aol.com>
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 10:08 AM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] US States & Fed Govt Laws regarding
> prospecting, hiking, ...
>
>
>>>>I have to agree with you on Meteor  Crater not being accessible for
>> prospecting.  A person or business  should not be able to own a major
>> geological feature and deny access and/or  use rights to everyone else.
>> It's wrong on a deep level. <<
>>
>> It  would be even more wrong for everyone having use rights to something I
>> view as  being a National Treasure at least. Meteor Crater is just that
>> unique
>> to be  protected from that never ending stream of meteorite hunters. After
>> seeing how  things that are run by governments get runned down, I'm glad
>> to see a
>> private  enterprise is doing the overseeing. If folks were allowed to
>> search
>> for  meteorites in and around Meteor Crater, it probably wouldn't take too
>>
>> many
>> years  for the place to look a mess. Trails and dirt roads coming from all
>> directions  leading to dug out holes all over the place.
>>
>>>> I guess someone  will be purchasing the
>> Mississippi River next and telling the rest of us to  get our boats out
>> of it. ;)<<
>>
>> Probably not, but if someone did,  most likely you'll still be paying the
>> same boating fees as before. But I'm sure  the government has this river
>> regulated already. So we now have inadequate  levees, dikes and what have
>> you to take
>> care of flooding.
>>
>> GeoZay
>>
>> **************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store?  Make dinner for $10
>>
>> or
>> less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001)
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


-- 
.........................................................
Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA)
Member of the Meteoritical Society.
Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network.
Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com
..........................................................

From epgrondine at yahoo.com  Sun Apr  5 22:20:39 2009
From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 19:20:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Re; Hunting Meteor Crater
Message-ID: <530291.1795.qm@web36907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


Hi all - 

As I understand it, Meteor Crater was taken from the Navaho people and given to Barringer by Teddy Roosevelt, who wanted its nickel steel for his expansion of US arms. If what I've read here on the list is correct, Barringer never was able to fulfill the requirements that were established in that taking. 

Now if Meteor Crater and the surrounding lands were ever returned to the Navaho people, I can guarantee you that the only people who would hunt meteorites there would be Navaho or allied peoples, and any meteorites found would not be sold simply for money. Ever.

good hunting, and my and the dancers thanks to Tom Tom,
E.P. Grondine
Man and Impact in the Americas








      

From paul at meteorite.com  Sun Apr  5 22:22:02 2009
From: paul at meteorite.com (Paul Harris)
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2009 19:22:02 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Apology To Geoff Notkin & Steve Arnold - Re:
 Meteorite Men TV Show - New Meteor Crater Book -	Catalog Updates
In-Reply-To: <2842E45D77114A94959B175801B459C8@Tims>
References: <d19.3c1c3e01.370a1558@aol.com>
	<2842E45D77114A94959B175801B459C8@Tims>
Message-ID: <49D9674A.6010505@meteorite.com>

Dear Geoff and Steve,

We would like to apologize to Geoff Notkin and Steve Arnold as Tim's 
reply was to an email we sent to the subscribers of our "For Sale" 
Website Newsletter.  Tim must have thought we had sent it to the 
meteorite-list... Sorry Tim.

Geoff and Steve were nice enough to let us sell a few of their Brenham 
Pallasite Collectibles.  We had no intent to market our site nor Geoff 
and Steve's wonderful collectible to the meteorite-list as Jim and I try 
to keep a low (Selling) profile to the meteorite community. We instead 
focus our efforts on reaching new meteorite buyers which is good for 
everyone.

Again our sincerest apology...

Paul and Jim




Timothy Heitz wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> Great stuff,  I placed my orders
>
> Thanks,
> Tim Heitz
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hello Everyone,
>
> Jim has finished the 3rd Edition and much expanded version of his 
> Meteor Crater Book. This book is a must for anyone interested in 
> Meteor Crater.
>
> Our good friends Geoffrey Notkin and Steve Arnold have a new TV 
> Special on Meteorites. The SCIENCE CHANNEL'S METEORITE MEN TAKES 
> VIEWERS ON QUEST FOR EXTRATERRESTRIAL TREASURE which is a new one-hour 
> show which premieres Sunday, May 10, 2009 at 9 PM (ET/PT).  We were 
> able to acquire a few of the limited edition collectible featuring a 
> part slice of the famous Brenham, Kansas pallasite which we are 
> offering here.
>
> More information on the TV Special here
> http://www.thefutoncritic.com/news.aspx?id=20090331science01
>
> We've also added many new meteorites to our catalog so if you've not 
> vised in the last month please have a look.
>
> Some of you may have noticed that we are not offering discount coupons 
> anymore.  Some people had difficulty on where to enter the code and 
> some people lost or forgot to use the coupon so we replaced it with a 
> 10% Discount anytime the cart total is over $100.  We also wanted a 
> way to help with the cost of shipping to our International Customers.
>
> Best Wishes!
>
> Paul and Jim
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>
> If you wish to unsubscribe the newsletter, please visit the following 
> URL:
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>
> Thank you for using our shopping system
> Paul and Jim
> The Meteorite Exchange, Inc.
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>



From parkforestmet at hotmail.com  Sun Apr  5 22:42:02 2009
From: parkforestmet at hotmail.com (bill kies)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 21:42:02 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Re; Hunting Meteor Crater
In-Reply-To: <530291.1795.qm@web36907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <530291.1795.qm@web36907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <SNT102-W28B5D411EAA7BF8ED18DE5A2840@phx.gbl>


http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/byauthor/212545
 


----------------------------------------
> Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 19:20:39 -0700
> From: epgrondine at yahoo.com
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Re; Hunting Meteor Crater
>
>
> Hi all -
>
> As I understand it, Meteor Crater was taken from the Navaho people and given to Barringer by Teddy Roosevelt, who wanted its nickel steel for his expansion of US arms. If what I've read here on the list is correct, Barringer never was able to fulfill the requirements that were established in that taking.
>
> Now if Meteor Crater and the surrounding lands were ever returned to the Navaho people, I can guarantee you that the only people who would hunt meteorites there would be Navaho or allied peoples, and any meteorites found would not be sold simply for money. Ever.
>
> good hunting, and my and the dancers thanks to Tom Tom,
> E.P. Grondine
> Man and Impact in the Americas
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
_________________________________________________________________
Rediscover Hotmail?: Get e-mail storage that grows with you. 
http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Storage1_042009

From geoking at notkin.net  Sun Apr  5 23:12:42 2009
From: geoking at notkin.net (Notkin)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 20:12:42 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] [AD?] Apology To Geoff Notkin & Steve Arnold -
	Re: Meteorite Men TV Show
Message-ID: <313DB1C8-A7B8-4545-A03D-D1277FCA9D55@notkin.net>

Dear Paul, Jim and Listees:

Paul, thank you for being, as always, so thoughtful. We are delighted  
that you were interested enough in our Brenham collectibles to offer  
them on your Meteorites-For-Sale.com site, which is doing important  
work in bringing new collectors to the field. Our pre-broadcast  
special limited edition of 100 Brenham lucites will soon be sold out  
and I was expecting to shortly be referring our customers to you  
anyway  : )

The Brenham lucite collectible is a part slice with olivine crystals,  
expertly prepared by Mike Miller, and taken from an actual mass found  
by Steve and myself while filming our "Meteorite Men" special for the  
Science Channel. It has already been offered to our private sales list  
and there are a few remaining editions available. If any of you would  
like to receive advance notification of upcoming private sales, please  
reply to me off-List.

The Brenhams have been set in a top quality transparent lucite block  
and are accompanied by a color 8 1/2 x 11 numbered certificate of  
authenticity, and an exclusive excavation color photo, both of which  
are signed by Steve and myself. Price is only $99 + shipping.

For those of you who might like to add one of these items to your  
meteorite collection, you can purchase from our friends at Meteorites- 
For-Sale.com here:

http://www.meteorites-for-sale.com/catalog/brenham.html


Or from Steve and myself here:

http://www.aerolite.org/meteoritemen/brenham-kansas-meteorite.htm


Paul and Jim do more than most to make the meteorite collecting  
community a better place, and there is absolutely no need to apologize  
to us or fellow List members. Keep up the great work!


Respectfully,

Geoff N.

www.aerolite.org
www.meteoritemen.com
www.meteoriteblog.org

From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com  Sun Apr  5 23:19:21 2009
From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 23:19:21 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - April 6, 2009
Message-ID: <c1a.56386892.370aceb9@aol.com>

http://www.rocksfromspace.org/April_6_2009.html





__________________________   

**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy 
steps! 
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220572833x1201387477/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID
%3D62%26bcd%3DAprilfooterNO62)

From stlouismeteorites at gmail.com  Sun Apr  5 23:41:00 2009
From: stlouismeteorites at gmail.com (Karl Aston)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 22:41:00 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite-list Digest, Vol 67, Issue 20
In-Reply-To: <mailman.83.1238938998.21489.meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
References: <mailman.83.1238938998.21489.meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
Message-ID: <34c0c5310904052041o1dd0ec19x14267e5f780e8b76@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Tim,

I'm in West now using a Fisher Gold Bug 2 and found 3 stones, none of
which I saw before the detector sounded off.  Only one would have been
visible at all.  One was buried in grass and the other under 2" dirt
in a plowed field.  It picked up only 2 meteorwrongs today.

I was shown how  to tune the detector my last trip here in a way that
all chondrites (and slag) give a negative signal (a boing sound) and
all man made trash gives the usual positive signal (a sharp zip
sound).  It's very easy to mentally tune out the zips.  Works very
well for both L's and H's.  Contact me and I'll demonstrate.

Karl Aston
314-614-9118

> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 22:47:29 -0500
> From: "Timothy  Heitz" <midwest at meteorman.org>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] What metal detector works well on finding a
>        stone   meteorite?
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Message-ID: <154B885B9F334049922F7CB4BE25DC4D at Tims>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>        reply-type=response
>
> Hello List,
>
> Most metal detectors that work great for an iron, will not work well on a
> common H5 or L6 stone.
>
> What metal detector works well with detecting stones
>
>
>
> Thanks,
> Tim Heitz

From erikfwebb at msn.com  Mon Apr  6 00:25:30 2009
From: erikfwebb at msn.com (Erik Fisler)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 21:25:30 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Questions about accretion.
In-Reply-To: <49D90C0E.4030108@meteoritesusa.com>
References: <be6.483742dc.370a5e2d@aol.com>
	<49D90C0E.4030108@meteoritesusa.com>
Message-ID: <COL119-W1625524AAE4657A71264C5A4840@phx.gbl>


Field Guide to Meteors and Meteorites, Norton, Page 36.
"There are two models that could describe the interior of
a chondritic asteroid parent body.  The origional body is
accreted as it orbits in the protoplanetary disk.  The 
result is a homogeneous body with its mineral components 
evenly distributed throughout the interior.  Internal 
heating by the short-lived radioisotope Aluminum 26 
provides the energy to heat the interior from the deep core
of the body to the near surface.  Thermal metamorphism 
slowly heats the interior to a petrographic type 6 at the
core.  The heat makes its way through the body, slowly
converting various regions of the interior to different 
petrographic types from type 6 to type 3.  The result is
a layered structure something like an onion's interior,
thus, the onion  shell model."
 
enjoy,
[Erik]
 

----------------------------------------
> Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 12:52:46 -0700
> From: eric at meteoritesusa.com
> To: GeoZay at aol.com; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Questions about accretion.
>
> Thanks for the responses thus far...
>
> I've studied lots of material and scientific papers on accretion, but
> still have some questions. The gravity explanation is great, but it's a
> little vague. I want to know what causes it I guess at the molecular
> level. What physical forces and interactions cause the iron to migrate
> into such a solid mass at the core?
>
> If gravity alone were the case, why is it we have H and L chondrites at
> all? Everything would be one big clump of mixed material. Has the iron
> not had a chance yet to migrate out of this layer of rock to the center
> of the asteroid? I know H and L chondrites are meteoroids that have
> broken off the parent bodies but my question is simply, had they not
> been blasted off the main body, how long would it take and in what
> manner would the iron have migrated from these layers of rock to the
> core? Iron doesn't just move through stone without some sort of catalyst
> or outside force does it? Gravity itself is not sufficient to move iron
> through a stone matrix no matter how much time passes is it? If there
> are no impacts or outside forces acting upon the body how does the iron
> loose itself from the grasp of the stone matrix to move through toward
> the core? Impacts?
>
> At the beginning of the formation of a meteoroid is it electrostatic
> attraction that causes it to get larger? At what size does it produce
> it's own gravity? Or does it? How does and asteroid become so dense? If
> asteroids are super dense, and comets are loosely bound material and
> gases, would that mean that asteroids are dead comets?
>
> Wow! I know that a lot of questions. sorry... ;)
>
> Eric
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

From paul at meteorite.com  Mon Apr  6 02:45:37 2009
From: paul at meteorite.com (Paul Harris)
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2009 23:45:37 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] ] [AD?] Apology To Geoff Notkin & Steve Arnold
	- The True Gentleman
In-Reply-To: <313DB1C8-A7B8-4545-A03D-D1277FCA9D55@notkin.net>
References: <313DB1C8-A7B8-4545-A03D-D1277FCA9D55@notkin.net>
Message-ID: <49D9A511.5090506@meteorite.com>

Mr Geoffrey Notkin is a true gentleman.

THE TRUE GENTLEMAN
by John Walter Wayland:

"The True Gentleman is the man whose conduct proceeds from good will and 
an acute sense
of propriety, and whose self-control is equal to all emergencies; who 
does not make the poor
man conscious of his poverty, the obscure man of his obscurity, or any 
man of his inferiority or
deformity; who is himself humbled if necessity compels him to humble 
another; who does not
flatter wealth, cringe before power, or boast of his own possessions or 
achievements; who speaks
with frankness but always with sincerity and sympathy; whose deed 
follows his word; who
thinks of the rights and feelings of others, rather than his own; and 
who appears well in any
company, a man with whom honor is sacred and virtue safe."



Notkin wrote:
> Dear Paul, Jim and Listees:
>
> Paul, thank you for being, as always, so thoughtful. We are delighted 
> that you were interested enough in our Brenham collectibles to offer 
> them on your Meteorites-For-Sale.com site, which is doing important 
> work in bringing new collectors to the field. Our pre-broadcast 
> special limited edition of 100 Brenham lucites will soon be sold out 
> and I was expecting to shortly be referring our customers to you 
> anyway  : )
>
> The Brenham lucite collectible is a part slice with olivine crystals, 
> expertly prepared by Mike Miller, and taken from an actual mass found 
> by Steve and myself while filming our "Meteorite Men" special for the 
> Science Channel. It has already been offered to our private sales list 
> and there are a few remaining editions available. If any of you would 
> like to receive advance notification of upcoming private sales, please 
> reply to me off-List.
>
> The Brenhams have been set in a top quality transparent lucite block 
> and are accompanied by a color 8 1/2 x 11 numbered certificate of 
> authenticity, and an exclusive excavation color photo, both of which 
> are signed by Steve and myself. Price is only $99 + shipping.
>
> For those of you who might like to add one of these items to your 
> meteorite collection, you can purchase from our friends at 
> Meteorites-For-Sale.com here:
>
> http://www.meteorites-for-sale.com/catalog/brenham.html
>
>
> Or from Steve and myself here:
>
> http://www.aerolite.org/meteoritemen/brenham-kansas-meteorite.htm
>
>
> Paul and Jim do more than most to make the meteorite collecting 
> community a better place, and there is absolutely no need to apologize 
> to us or fellow List members. Keep up the great work!
>
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Geoff N.
>
> www.aerolite.org
> www.meteoritemen.com
> www.meteoriteblog.org
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>



From Carsten.Giessler at t-online.de  Mon Apr  6 04:45:01 2009
From: Carsten.Giessler at t-online.de (Carsten Giessler)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2009 10:45:01 +0200
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - NWA 5701, L3,
	W0/1 Beautiful Mainmass For Sale!
Message-ID: <49D9C10D.6040403@t-online.de>


Hola List,

i have the very attractive mainmass (biggest remaining piece) of NWA 
5701 for sale.
NWA 5701 is one of the freshest L3's which are ever found in the deserts 
of NWA.
The mainmass is a very nice fresh crusted individual, with a cut edge.
You can see pictures here:

http://www.gi-po.de/ebayfolder/5701main/1.jpg
http://www.gi-po.de/ebayfolder/5701main/2.jpg
http://www.gi-po.de/ebayfolder/5701main/3.jpg
http://www.gi-po.de/ebayfolder/5701main/nwa 5701-2.jpg
http://www.gi-po.de/ebayfolder/5701main/nwa 5701.jpg

The weight of this really wonderful specimen is 269.5g.
If you are interested or when you have questions, please email me off-list.

Many thanks for viewing!

Carsten

-- 


Carsten Giessler

Gipometeorites - www.gi-po.de -
email: c-giessler at gi-po.de

Member of the Meteoritical Society
International Society for Meteoritics and Planetary Science

IMCA Member:3457
International Meteorite Collectors Association


From drtanuki at yahoo.com  Mon Apr  6 07:22:40 2009
From: drtanuki at yahoo.com (drtanuki)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 04:22:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] fireball reported over Ireland
Message-ID: <793737.91482.qm@web53201.mail.re2.yahoo.com>


Dear List,

  BBC News story about the Ireland fireball:

http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.com/2009/04/ireland-security-cameras-clue-to.html

Dirk Ross...Tokyo

From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Mon Apr  6 11:35:19 2009
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2009 08:35:19 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Why ET's genetic code could be just like ours
Message-ID: <49DA2137.7070101@meteoritesusa.com>

Interesting article...

http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/arxiv/23309/

http://arxiv.org/abs/0904.0402

If true, would this mean that there might be other "humans" out there 
somewhere?

Kind of a cool thought.

-- 
Regards,
Eric Wichman
Meteorites USA
904-236-5394


From cynapse at charter.net  Mon Apr  6 13:31:11 2009
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2009 12:31:11 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Why ET's genetic code could be just like ours
In-Reply-To: <49DA2137.7070101@meteoritesusa.com>
References: <49DA2137.7070101@meteoritesusa.com>
Message-ID: <5lekt4dvrlu0cfbck7i7uqp5pee34f2one@4ax.com>

On Mon, 06 Apr 2009 08:35:19 -0700, you wrote:

>If true, would this mean that there might be other "humans" out there 
>somewhere?

Depends on what you mean by "humans".  If you mean "people with slightly
different noses and/or ears", then I seriously doubt it.

Book recommendation:

http://www.amazon.com/Life-We-Not-Know-Synthesis/dp/0143038494/

From almitt at kconline.com  Mon Apr  6 12:37:21 2009
From: almitt at kconline.com (al mitterling)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 12:37:21 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Why ET's genetic code could be just like ours
In-Reply-To: <49DA2137.7070101@meteoritesusa.com>
References: <49DA2137.7070101@meteoritesusa.com>
Message-ID: <D933CBE5B78C435F925A2D1D51737A3A@StarmanPC>

Edwin Thompson's code??????????

--AL
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Meteorites USA" <eric at meteoritesusa.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 11:35 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Why ET's genetic code could be just like ours


> Interesting article...
> 
> http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/arxiv/23309/
> 
> http://arxiv.org/abs/0904.0402
> 
> If true, would this mean that there might be other "humans" out there 
> somewhere?
> 
> Kind of a cool thought.
> 
> -- 
> Regards,
> Eric Wichman
> Meteorites USA
> 904-236-5394
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 
>

From almitt at kconline.com  Mon Apr  6 12:40:38 2009
From: almitt at kconline.com (al mitterling)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 12:40:38 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] ] [AD?] Apology To Geoff Notkin & Steve
	Arnold- The True Gentleman
In-Reply-To: <49D9A511.5090506@meteorite.com>
References: <313DB1C8-A7B8-4545-A03D-D1277FCA9D55@notkin.net>
	<49D9A511.5090506@meteorite.com>
Message-ID: <8534D0092DBB40AAB26FC3F6BD37CA6A@StarmanPC>

Hi Paul and all,

I'll strongly second that, and it's true!!

--AL Mitterling


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Paul Harris" <paul at meteorite.com>
To: "Notkin" <geoking at notkin.net>
Cc: "Meteorite List" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 2:45 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] ] [AD?] Apology To Geoff Notkin & Steve 
Arnold- The True Gentleman


> Mr Geoffrey Notkin is a true gentleman.
>
> THE TRUE GENTLEMAN
> by John Walter Wayland:
>
> "The True Gentleman is the man whose conduct proceeds from good will and 
> an acute sense
> of propriety, and whose self-control is equal to all emergencies; who does 
> not make the poor
> man conscious of his poverty, the obscure man of his obscurity, or any man 
> of his inferiority or
> deformity; who is himself humbled if necessity compels him to humble 
> another; who does not
> flatter wealth, cringe before power, or boast of his own possessions or 
> achievements; who speaks
> with frankness but always with sincerity and sympathy; whose deed follows 
> his word; who
> thinks of the rights and feelings of others, rather than his own; and who 
> appears well in any
> company, a man with whom honor is sacred and virtue safe."
>
>
>
> Notkin wrote:
>> Dear Paul, Jim and Listees:
>>
>> Paul, thank you for being, as always, so thoughtful. We are delighted 
>> that you were interested enough in our Brenham collectibles to offer them 
>> on your Meteorites-For-Sale.com site, which is doing important work in 
>> bringing new collectors to the field. Our pre-broadcast special limited 
>> edition of 100 Brenham lucites will soon be sold out and I was expecting 
>> to shortly be referring our customers to you anyway  : )
>>
>> The Brenham lucite collectible is a part slice with olivine crystals, 
>> expertly prepared by Mike Miller, and taken from an actual mass found by 
>> Steve and myself while filming our "Meteorite Men" special for the 
>> Science Channel. It has already been offered to our private sales list 
>> and there are a few remaining editions available. If any of you would 
>> like to receive advance notification of upcoming private sales, please 
>> reply to me off-List.
>>
>> The Brenhams have been set in a top quality transparent lucite block and 
>> are accompanied by a color 8 1/2 x 11 numbered certificate of 
>> authenticity, and an exclusive excavation color photo, both of which are 
>> signed by Steve and myself. Price is only $99 + shipping.
>>
>> For those of you who might like to add one of these items to your 
>> meteorite collection, you can purchase from our friends at 
>> Meteorites-For-Sale.com here:
>>
>> http://www.meteorites-for-sale.com/catalog/brenham.html
>>
>>
>> Or from Steve and myself here:
>>
>> http://www.aerolite.org/meteoritemen/brenham-kansas-meteorite.htm
>>
>>
>> Paul and Jim do more than most to make the meteorite collecting community 
>> a better place, and there is absolutely no need to apologize to us or 
>> fellow List members. Keep up the great work!
>>
>>
>> Respectfully,
>>
>> Geoff N.
>>
>> www.aerolite.org
>> www.meteoritemen.com
>> www.meteoriteblog.org
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> 


From GeoZay at aol.com  Mon Apr  6 12:51:41 2009
From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 12:51:41 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Why ET's genetic code could be just like ours
Message-ID: <cf4.4c9f1820.370b8d1d@aol.com>

>>Depends on what you mean by  "humans".  If you mean "people with slightly
different noses and/or  ears", then I seriously doubt it.<<

I agree...I think there's only  about 1% difference between human and chimp's 
DNA and look at the difference  there. I can only imagine what Natural 
Selection would settle with on another  planet that has just a slightly different 
environment. My momma just might look  like a star fish. :O)
GeoZay  

**************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store?  Make dinner for $10 or 
less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001)

From raremeteorites at yahoo.com  Mon Apr  6 13:14:20 2009
From: raremeteorites at yahoo.com (Adam Hupe)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 10:14:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Wierd Meteorite Wrong Question?
Message-ID: <54333.25629.qm@web30706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


Dear List Members,

We went on a Mojave Desert hunt this weekend where I found this weird stone.  My questions is, does anybody have a clue to what type of rock this may be?

The reason I am asking the list is that several hunters have thousands of hours in the Mojave whereas I only have a couple of hundred and they may have seen something like it before. It is very dense, has surface contraction cracks and is not attracted to a powerful magnet at all.  It does look like a crust but not like anything I have ever seen before.  I have never observed a gray crust on a meteorite is what is convincing me that it is terrestrial. I have never seen surface contraction cracks on a terrestrial rock that did not penetrate the whole stone.  We must have hiked 20 miles and I did not come across anything similar.

We thought it was a meteorite when we first saw it in situ but now are not convinced. I do not want to cut it if it is not a meteorite because it would be one of the best wrongs I have ever seen. On the other hand, if there is any chance whatsoever that it could be the first North American Lunar, I would cut it in a heartbeat. Maybe, I am just dreaming but I am convinced that within the next 10 years, some lucky hunter will find one. 

Images of the stone:

Image 1
http://themeteoritesite.com/Achondrite-1.jpg

Image 2
http://themeteoritesite.com/Achondrite-2.jpg

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Best Regards,

Adam




From GeoZay at aol.com  Mon Apr  6 13:30:30 2009
From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 13:30:30 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Wierd Meteorite Wrong Question?
Message-ID: <cad.4ddfef55.370b9636@aol.com>



>>We went on a Mojave Desert hunt  this weekend where I found this weird 
stone.  My questions is, does anybody  have a clue to what type of rock this may 
be?<<

Could it be some  kind of Jasper? 
GeoZay  

**************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store?  Make dinner for $10 or 
less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001)

From mqfowler at mac.com  Mon Apr  6 13:43:00 2009
From: mqfowler at mac.com (Michael Fowler)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2009 12:43:00 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Why ET's genetic code could be just like ours
Message-ID: <AD670F7D-D3CA-4978-AD10-67D649E1E0F3@mac.com>

I think you're misreading the article.  To say that alien life might  
have started with the same 10 amino acids (out of 20) that ours did  
says virtually nothing about what that life might look like, or how  
it might have evolved.

Mike Fowler
Chicago

> Interesting article...
> http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/arxiv/23309/
> http://arxiv.org/abs/0904.0402
> If true, would this mean that there might be other "humans" out there
> somewhere?
>
> Kind of a cool thought.
>
> Regards,
> Eric Wichman
> Meteorites USA
> 904-236-5394

From stanleygregr at yahoo.com  Mon Apr  6 14:19:47 2009
From: stanleygregr at yahoo.com (greg stanley)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 11:19:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Wierd Meteorite Wrong Question?
Message-ID: <708945.40761.qm@web52305.mail.re2.yahoo.com>



Adam:

From your picks I would say one of three possibilities, although remember nothing is for sure from the photos on the web.  I really need to view specimens with a hand lens.

Poor grade jasper ? I have found this everywhere.  They can be magnetic if it contains hematite and iron oxides.  Although the contraction cracks are not very common in the jasper I have found.  A hardness test will verify this ? Jasper is hardness 7.

I fine grained quartzite with desert varnish ? I have found these to.  They look igneous to me.  Some are gray, reddish or brown- the grains can very fine.  I have found some very dark.  They are usually not magnetic.  If you look with a hand lens you can see very small grains with a darker coating on them.  And as always ? look for any sign of quartz.

I siliceous mudstone ? This stuff I have found and been fooled; have even sent samples to UCLA.  The color looks very much like a weathered chondrite.  They sometimes are weakly magnetic, but tent to be not as dense as a stony meteorite.  When cut, they have swirls inside and look very similar to the Jasper or a reddish basalt, but are softer.  I friend of mine calls them ?siliceous ooze.? I believe they are formed in an ancient mud settled in a shallow ocean. 

In the Mojave Desert I have found many rocks with all variations of ?Desert Varnish,? some coatings on rocks of from bacteria; they can be very tricky, but I keep every one and take it home as you never know.

In your specimen the contraction cracks and high density are good and the fact there was nothing similar is a good sign.

Looks like you have to cut it to make sure.

Greg Stanley
Bakersfield 

--- On Mon, 4/6/09, Adam Hupe <raremeteorites at yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Adam Hupe <raremeteorites at yahoo.com>
Subject: [meteorite-list] Wierd Meteorite Wrong Question?
To: "Adam" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Monday, April 6, 2009, 10:14 AM


Dear List Members,

We went on a Mojave Desert hunt this weekend where I found this weird stone.? My questions is, does anybody have a clue to what type of rock this may be?

The reason I am asking the list is that several hunters have thousands of hours in the Mojave whereas I only have a couple of hundred and they may have seen something like it before. It is very dense, has surface contraction cracks and is not attracted to a powerful magnet at all.? It does look like a crust but not like anything I have ever seen before.? I have never observed a gray crust on a meteorite is what is convincing me that it is terrestrial. I have never seen surface contraction cracks on a terrestrial rock that did not penetrate the whole stone.? We must have hiked 20 miles and I did not come across anything similar.

We thought it was a meteorite when we first saw it in situ but now are not convinced. I do not want to cut it if it is not a meteorite because it would be one of the best wrongs I have ever seen. On the other hand, if there is any chance whatsoever that it could be the first North American Lunar, I would cut it in a heartbeat. Maybe, I am just dreaming but I am convinced that within the next 10 years, some lucky hunter will find one. 

Images of the stone:

Image 1
http://themeteoritesite.com/Achondrite-1.jpg

Image 2
http://themeteoritesite.com/Achondrite-2.jpg

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Best Regards,

Adam



______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



      

From korotev at wustl.edu  Mon Apr  6 14:20:23 2009
From: korotev at wustl.edu (Randy Korotev)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2009 13:20:23 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Wierd Meteorite Wrong Question?
In-Reply-To: <54333.25629.qm@web30706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <54333.25629.qm@web30706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200904061818.n36IInO21799@levee.wustl.edu>

Adam:

It has some resemblance to a hematite concretion:

http://meteorites.wustl.edu/id/concretions.htm

The color is right, but the texture is not.

Do a streak test:

http://meteorites.wustl.edu/id/streak.htm

Randy



At 12:14 06-04-09 Monday, you wrote:

>Dear List Members,
>
>We went on a Mojave Desert hunt this weekend where I found this 
>weird stone.  My questions is, does anybody have a clue to what type 
>of rock this may be?
>
>The reason I am asking the list is that several hunters have 
>thousands of hours in the Mojave whereas I only have a couple of 
>hundred and they may have seen something like it before. It is very 
>dense, has surface contraction cracks and is not attracted to a 
>powerful magnet at all.  It does look like a crust but not like 
>anything I have ever seen before.  I have never observed a gray 
>crust on a meteorite is what is convincing me that it is 
>terrestrial. I have never seen surface contraction cracks on a 
>terrestrial rock that did not penetrate the whole stone.  We must 
>have hiked 20 miles and I did not come across anything similar.
>
>We thought it was a meteorite when we first saw it in situ but now 
>are not convinced. I do not want to cut it if it is not a meteorite 
>because it would be one of the best wrongs I have ever seen. On the 
>other hand, if there is any chance whatsoever that it could be the 
>first North American Lunar, I would cut it in a heartbeat. Maybe, I 
>am just dreaming but I am convinced that within the next 10 years, 
>some lucky hunter will find one.
>
>Images of the stone:
>
>Image 1
>http://themeteoritesite.com/Achondrite-1.jpg
>
>Image 2
>http://themeteoritesite.com/Achondrite-2.jpg
>
>Any input would be greatly appreciated.
>
>Best Regards,
>
>Adam
>
>
>
>______________________________________________
>http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>Meteorite-list mailing list
>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com  Mon Apr  6 15:52:19 2009
From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 15:52:19 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - April 6,
	2009 - Neuschwanstein
Message-ID: <bdf.4bde5935.370bb773@aol.com>

http://www.rocksfromspace.org/April_6_2009_neuschwanstein.html





__________________________   

**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy 
steps! 
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221621488x1201450096/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID
%3D62%26bcd%3DAprilfooterNO62)

From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com  Mon Apr  6 16:07:28 2009
From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 16:07:28 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - April 6,
	2009 - Neuschwanstein
Message-ID: <ccc.4e81c29a.370bbb00@aol.com>

http://www.rocksfromspace.org/April_6_2009_neuschwanstein.html





__________________________   

**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy 
steps! 
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221621488x1201450096/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID
%3D62%26bcd%3DAprilfooterNO62)

From searchingforfun at sbcglobal.net  Mon Apr  6 19:24:53 2009
From: searchingforfun at sbcglobal.net (Brian Cox)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 16:24:53 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad Sale ebay Auctions ending tonight
Message-ID: <012b01c9b70e$e5167850$4001a8c0@BRIANSCOMPUTER>

Hello list members,

I hope everyone is having a great start to the week!

I have a few meteorite auctions ending tonight and a few others I just 
listed today.

Here is the ebay link to my seller's page. 
http://my.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?MyEbay&gbh=1&CurrentPage=MyeBayAllSelling&ssPageName=STRK:ME:LNLK&_trksid=m37

Long Island 24.19 grams Kansas
Tulia (a)
Monturaqui meteorite impactite

McKinney Texas  ----------    4 specimens up now

Please check back this week for Hassayampa and Cocklebiddy.

Thanks for looking,

Brian Cox
IMCA# 6387
searchingforfun    is my ebay user id



From dfpens01 at yahoo.com  Mon Apr  6 16:03:10 2009
From: dfpens01 at yahoo.com (David Pensenstadler)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 13:03:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] What metal detector works well on finding a
	stone meteorite?
Message-ID: <740656.15785.qm@web90305.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


Count me as a believer in the Gold Bug 2.  I have used it at Gold Basin and Franconia and have found small pieces every time there.

Dave

--- On Sun, 4/5/09, Erik Fisler <erikfwebb at msn.com> wrote:

> From: Erik Fisler <erikfwebb at msn.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What metal detector works well on finding a stone meteorite?
> To: "meteorite-list" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Date: Sunday, April 5, 2009, 1:00 AM
> 
> Whites 
> Minelabs SD2100
> Goldbug 2
>  
> all of the best hunters use
> one of these machines when it
> comes to H Chondrites like Franconia
> and the low metal L chondrites at
> Goldbasin.
>  
> All 3 are very durable and very effective
> at a generally low cost ($500 - $1500)
>  
> Here are some people that use these detectors.
>  
> GMT- Jim Smaller, Del Waterbury, Stan Santiago, and me of
> course.
>  
> Minelabs SD2100- Del Waterbury, Jim Smaller, My father.
>  
> Goldbug 2 - John Wolfe, Ruben Garcia
>  
> for great advise on how to use these detectors and 
> which work best for what conditions, check out
> Bill Southern's Meteorite hunting forum at:
> http://www.nuggetshooter.ipbhost.com/index.php?s=03684023296f024d35ff1e3034012e88&showforum=4
> im sure you could search their archives and find one
> of our discussions on the topic of best detectors.
>  
> [Erik]
> 
> ----------------------------------------
> > From: midwest at meteorman.org
> > To: meteoritemike at gmail.com
> > Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 23:21:38 -0500
> > CC: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What metal detector
> works well on finding a stone meteorite?
> >
> > Thank Mike, Good article
> >
> >
> > Tim
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" 
> > To: "Timothy Heitz" 
> > Cc: 
> > Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 11:03 PM
> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What metal detector
> works well on finding a
> > stone meteorite?
> >
> >
> >> Hi Tim and List,
> >>
> >> Warning - I am repeating second-hand information,
> not personal experience.
> >>
> >> I've done a lot reading on metal detectors and
> meteorites lately, and
> >> I found a review (shootout) of several metal
> detectors being used to
> >> find meteorites - irons and stones. It seems that
> the older metal
> >> detectors that have trouble with mineralized
> ground are actually good
> >> with stones.
> >>
> >> See here -
> >>
> >> http://www.whiteriverprep.com/meteor/madness.html
> >>
> >> Best regards,
> >>
> >> MikeG
> >>
> >>
> >> On 4/4/09, Timothy Heitz wrote:
> >>> Hello List,
> >>>
> >>> Most metal detectors that work great for an
> iron, will not work well on a
> >>> common H5 or L6 stone.
> >>>
> >>> What metal detector works well with detecting
> stones
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>> Tim Heitz
> >>>
> >>>
> ______________________________________________
> >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> >>> Meteorite-list mailing list
> >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> .........................................................
> >> Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA)
> >> Member of the Meteoritical Society.
> >> Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network.
> >> Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com
> >>
> ..........................................................
> >
> > ______________________________________________
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      

From mqfowler at mac.com  Mon Apr  6 17:58:44 2009
From: mqfowler at mac.com (Michael Fowler)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2009 16:58:44 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Wierd Meteorite Wrong Question?
Message-ID: <CDB5104D-8558-4115-B07E-E2CDC6EDCA2C@mac.com>

If you scroll down the page of hematite meteorwrongs quite a way on  
the right side there is one with cracks similar to the one Adam Hupe  
pictured.  Ironically it says:  "thanks to Adam for this fine  
specimen"!!!

Mike Fowler
Chicago

> Adam:
>
> It has some resemblance to a hematite concretion:
>
> http://meteorites.wustl.edu/id/concretions.htm
>
> The color is right, but the texture is not.
>
> Do a streak test:
>
> http://meteorites.wustl.edu/id/streak.htm
>
> Randy
>

From raremeteorites at yahoo.com  Mon Apr  6 18:41:02 2009
From: raremeteorites at yahoo.com (Adam Hupe)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 15:41:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Wierd Meteorite Wrong Question?
Message-ID: <755515.54257.qm@web30702.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


Thank you for all of the replies.  I was sure it was not a meteorite, just hoping since it got my heart rate up when we stumbled upon it. It caused one of the team members to say "you lucky b_stard" when I pointed it out in situ.  I did not take any field pictures of it since I wasn't convinced it was a meteorite.  I determined this once I got down on all fours and looked at it close.

I tried the streak test, came out faint chalky white, not black or red.  I forgot all about the acid test to see if it bubbled. I am out of nitric acid since I moved and did not want to pack this noxious chemical along, especially after the bad experience I had several years ago with some hippies "magic cleaning solution" that I bought in Denver after looking at his spotless specimens.

I did not provide the sample that another Adam was given credit for on Randy's site.  By the way, this is the best meteorwrong site I have looked at. Usually, I am concerned with the real thing but find terrestrial rocks to be fascinating as well.

Best Regards,

Adam



From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Mon Apr  6 19:38:46 2009
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2009 16:38:46 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Everything Must Sell Tonight!
Message-ID: <49DA9286.5060009@meteoritesusa.com>

Hello List,

I only have about 8 kilos of these stones left. I really do need to sell these meteorites tonight. Last nights private sale was good but there's still meteorites left to be sold. I'm willing to drop my price for the right offer just to move these stones.

.19/g if you buy them all! 

I'll even throw in some special hand picked stones for those who buy more than 3 kilos.

First come first served... Once they're gone they're gone. I will not hold any meteorites for this sale.

http://www.meteoritesusa.com/nwa-869.htm
NWA 869 .20/g for any UNSORTED lot

FREE SHIPPING (USA)
Minimum Purchase: $100

HAND PICKED LOTS = ONLY .25/g
INDIVIDUALS = ONLY .25/g
UNSORTED LOTS = ONLY .20/g

or 

WHOLESALE DEAL: (.19/g) If You Buy All Stones on this page: http://www.meteoritesusa.com/nwa-869.htm

Call: 904-236-5394 or Email: eric at meteoritesusa.com

ALSO FOR SALE: Special LOT: NWA (Unclassified) 263.3g LOT of End Cuts And Slices: http://www.meteoritesusa.com/stone-meteorites-for-sale.htm

Next WEEK: I've got some very nice Tamdakht and gorgeous NWA coming in later next week. Email me off-list for prices and photos.

-- 
Regards,
Eric Wichman
Meteorites USA
http://www.meteoritesusa.com
904-236-5394

P.S. If you're not on my private sale list you ight want to join now for first dibs on sales like this. http://www.meteoritesusa.com/newsletter/




From rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com  Mon Apr  6 19:53:01 2009
From: rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com (Rob McCafferty)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 16:53:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Questions about accretion.
In-Reply-To: <49D90C0E.4030108@meteoritesusa.com>
Message-ID: <841457.5727.qm@web55203.mail.re4.yahoo.com>


Hi Eric

You are correct in thinking that electrostatics causes the initial clumping.
The early sun would have been extremely energetic and X-ray and UV radiation would produce electro static charging of small particles.
Once they begin to clump to a sufficient size, they will attract particles through gravity.

The dynamics are as follows
An object with radius R will naturally sweep up any object within its radius (pi*R^2) but gravity will draw material from a greater distance S inside and outside its orbital path

S=(R^2 + 2GMR/V^2)^1/2  

M mass of body, V initial closing velocity of body and impactor

Initially, you are correct, everything begins as a big clump of mixed material. Whether an iron core is formed will depend on the size of the initial clump of stuff. 
Heat is generated by radioactivity of short lived isotopes such as Al26. If the rock is big enough, (which provides enough radioactive material to generate the heat AND enough lying over the middle to prevent the heat escaping, the body will melt. Once this begins, the iron will migrate to the core as rock and iron don't mix. Iron, being denser, will sink.

Accretion to differentiation is a very rapid affair, just a few million years. The almost identical ages of all asteroidal meteorites tends to confirm this. 

My understanding is that this leads to the different classes of achondrites. These have been properly melted and lose their chondrules. The widmanstatten patterns in irons comes from the rocky material insulating the iron/nickel core allowing it to cool very slowly. 
Parent bodies forming in different orbits are likely to have differing constituents according the condensation model, hence different achondrite types.

Chondrites may have come from smaller initial parent bodies, ones that weren't big enough to generate enough heat to fully melt. Higher petrographic types of chondrite (4-6) are samples that are progressively closer to the core and were heated more in bodies that were not properly differentiated. Petrographic type 3 are essentially the same material as the early solar system, mostly unaltered by heat, likely from near the surface of undifferentiated bodies. I don't see that all parent bodies would necessarily need 3-6 petrographic types. Small parent bodies may not reach the higher grades in the middle as they never got hot enough. Grade 6 seems to be the limit. If the parent body grew any bigger then it would melt producing a differentiated parent body.
I think petrographic type goes to 7 but I don't think any are actually given this grade (though I think it was NWA3133 that may have been discussed as a possible). 

It is likley that H, L and LL meteorites come from different parent bodies possibly from different regions in the protosolar nebula.

The relative rarity of petrographic type 3 ordinary chondrites may be due to them being removed first and subsequently removed from the system many aeons ago.

Carbonaceous Chondrites are a whole different kettle of fish but I think I've said quite enough for now. I hope I've not made any glaring errors but if I have someone will put me right.

Rob Mc




      

From bakers5acres at frontiernet.net  Mon Apr  6 22:38:58 2009
From: bakers5acres at frontiernet.net (Jake Baker)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 19:38:58 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Who makes thin sections
Message-ID: <EDA7A6815487454793293210FBA6592A@barb2>

Not long ago this question was posted. 

Where can I get good quality thin sections made?

Thanks,

Barb
Arizona




From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net  Tue Apr  7 02:05:13 2009
From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 01:05:13 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Microtektites from Antarctica
References: <837899.22117.qm@web36202.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <D691F68CAF3A4F9FB3636D911DCE94FC@ATARIENGINE2>

Hi,

The article states: "...the Ivory Coast strewn
field (1.10 + or- 0.05 Ma). However the latter
has no extension south of the equator so these
microtektites must form an extension of the
Australasian field."

The Botsumtwi crater (which is in Ghana not
the Ivory Coast) is virtually ON the equator,
and there are Ivorites recovered from the seabed
in all directions for hundreds of miles, some of
which are "south" of the equator. However, that
is not the distance record for an Ivorite!

One of the "Australites," recovered from the NE
coast of Australia, and provided to the crucial and
oft-cited 1982 Shaw and Wasserburg study of
Sm-Nd systematics, turned out to be an Ivory
Coast tektite and not an australite (despite being
found in Australia)!

That find location is virtually "antipodal" to the
Ivory Coast (antipodal meaning 180 degrees
around the globe). Almost antipodal to the source
strewn field are the badly eroded Tikal tektites
identified as Australites by Alan Hildebrand.

Since the K-Ar dates are too vague to distinguish
between the two, it would be useful to apply a
fuller range of isotopic analysis (like the Shaw -
Wasserburg study) to them.

Widely discontinuous patches of a strewn field are
more common than a continuous strewn field. North
American tektites, presumably from the Chesapeake
crater, are found in "patches" in Georgia, Texas,
an isolated one in Massachusetts, some in Cuba,
and a few from the northern South American coast!

Tektites get around...


Sterling K. Webb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Paul" <bristolia at yahoo.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 4:45 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Microtektites from Antarctica


>
> McCall, J., 2008, Microtektites from Antarctica
> Geoscientist 18.8 September 2008
>
> http://www.geolsoc.org.uk/gsl/geoscientist/geonews/page4229.html
>
> Yours,
>
> Paul H.
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 


From info at meteorite.fr  Tue Apr  7 02:20:39 2009
From: info at meteorite.fr (The Earth's memory)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 08:20:39 +0200
Subject: [meteorite-list] Major web site updates  - AD
Message-ID: <A15D565D9CEE4CC6AD314AC0C42CA246@earth.local>

Dear list Members,

We hope you're all doing well !

it has been a long time since we made changes on our web site 
www.meteorite.fr
so, we just spent two weeks taking pictures and writting descriptions for 
more
than 600 specimens we added on our pages.

If you have time, please take a look. If you see any errors you're welcome 
to
send us comments.

Thank you for your time and have a good day.

Cheers from France,

Bruno & Carine
La Memoire de la Terre Sarl
The Earth's Memory LLC
France
www.meteorite.fr
www.fossile.fr



Consider the environment before printing this mail. 


From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net  Tue Apr  7 02:32:46 2009
From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 01:32:46 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Banishment -OT was 2 arrested update
References: <695185.49347.qm@web55208.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5612B0BD6DF94EF4A48B21B4FAF462F3@ATARIENGINE2>

And in Massachusetts they passed a law requiring
citizens to hang or otherwise execute any Rhode
Islanders found in Massachusetts. This was in 1659.

The law was not repealed until the 1970's, when an
enterprising defense attorney whose client was accused
of shooting to death a man from... you guessed it! --
Rhode Island found it was still in force. The attorney
immediately proposed that his client was not guilty of
any criminal offense, but merely zealous and very
public-spirited.

It didn't get the guy off, but the gunman got a reduced
sentence and the law was expunged by the Legislature
in fast order. I suppose this indicates that 
Massachusetts
lacks reverence for the kind of good old-time legal 
tactics
practiced by King George III and his ilk, a reverence 
that
is apparently possessed by the governments of Georgia
and Alabama.


Sterling K. Webb
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mr EMan" <mstreman53 at yahoo.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>; 
<MeteorHntr at aol.com>
Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 10:54 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Banishment -OT was 2 
arrested update


>
> --- On Thu, 4/2/09, MeteorHntr at aol.com 
> <MeteorHntr at aol.com> wrote:
> some of this story smells a little fishy... snip.. it 
> was reported that Honorable(sic) Judge Jerry M. 
> Daniel told the  guys  "to get out of dodge.?
>
> Georgia and Alabama are the only US states left where 
> the common law of banishment is still legal 
> statewide.  Dating back to King George III, thus 
> predating both the US and Georgia State constitutions 
> it has been upheld under common law by the US Supreme 
> Court although certain limits are pending review.
>
> It is an almost obligatory addition to any sentence 
> in Georgia where the defendants are not local 
> residents and the Judge needs re-election publicity.
>
> In Georgia, a county judge is an officer of the State 
> court system but can't banish you into the rest of 
> the state but, can banish you from the whole state 
> IIRC.  Hard to enforce outside the judge's own 
> county, and under one supreme court ruling it can't 
> extend beyond the original sentence of the underlying 
> sentence, it is theoretically possible to land one 
> back in jail if caught again in the state and you are 
> "notorious" in that banishment is not kept in 
> state-wide records.  The new arresting officer would 
> have to be smart enough to call the previous 
> judge--and fortunately intelligence is not a 
> requirement for their employment.
>
> I know one county in Georgia where there is the 
> Sheriff, his wife is the Jailer, his son is THE full 
> time Deputy( who in Barney Fife tradition frequently, 
> isn't allowed to carry a loaded gun and who's IQ is 
> just high enough to not be classified as a rock). 
> The sheriff's daughter is the 9-1-1 
> Director/dispatcher. The judge is a cousin or 
> uncle??? The cousin mayor in the county seat also 
> owns the feed store, cotton gin, gun shop,ambulance 
> service, towing contract and jail food services 
> contract.  As you can imagine NO ONE in 20 years as 
> ever been found not guilty. No one married into the 
> family can get a divorce unless the family member 
> wants it. This is not illegal per se for inbred 
> nepotism to such a degree. In a state where it is 
> legal to marry your cousin, this should surprise no 
> outsider. Unfortunately to this day a common offense 
> meriting summary execution is DWB-Driving while black 
> or DWM --while Mexican.  I wouldn't be surprised if 
> DWY wasn't a
> common offense--you know  Driving while Yankee.
>
> Elton
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


From STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com  Tue Apr  7 09:30:38 2009
From: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com (STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 09:30:38 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Major web site updates  - AD
Message-ID: <ce6.4a8ff148.370caf7e@aol.com>

Fantastic site!  It's like going to a  museum!

Tom

In a message dated 4/7/2009 12:26:04 A.M. Mountain  Daylight Time, 
info at meteorite.fr writes:
Dear list Members,

We hope  you're all doing well !

it has been a long time since we made changes on  our web site 
www.meteorite.fr
so, we just spent two weeks taking pictures  and writting descriptions for 
more
than 600 specimens we added on our  pages.

If you have time, please take a look. If you see any errors you're  welcome 
to
send us comments.

Thank you for your time and have a  good day.

Cheers from France,

Bruno & Carine
La Memoire de  la Terre Sarl
The Earth's Memory  LLC
France
www.meteorite.fr
www.fossile.fr



Consider the  environment before printing this mail.  

______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list  mailing  list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list   

**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy 
steps! 
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221421323x1201417385/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID
%3D62%26bcd%3DAprilfooterNO62)

From drtanuki at yahoo.com  Tue Apr  7 11:23:46 2009
From: drtanuki at yahoo.com (drtanuki)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 08:23:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] North Central California/Yuba, NV Bolide 7APR09
Message-ID: <873391.42994.qm@web53203.mail.re2.yahoo.com>


Dear List,
  A new bolide has just been reported seen over California and Nevada.  http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.com/

Dirk Ross...Tokyo

From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Tue Apr  7 12:40:20 2009
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2009 09:40:20 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Questions about accretion.
In-Reply-To: <841457.5727.qm@web55203.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
References: <841457.5727.qm@web55203.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <49DB81F4.7030803@meteoritesusa.com>

Thanks Rob! Great response. That pretty much sums it up for me and 
answers just about everything I was curious about in that email.

You mentioned...

"..If the rock is big enough, (which provides enough radioactive material to generate the heat AND enough lying over the middle to prevent the heat escaping, the body will melt..."

How big is "big enough"?

Eric




Rob McCafferty wrote:
> Hi Eric
>
> You are correct in thinking that electrostatics causes the initial clumping.
> The early sun would have been extremely energetic and X-ray and UV radiation would produce electro static charging of small particles.
> Once they begin to clump to a sufficient size, they will attract particles through gravity.
>
> The dynamics are as follows
> An object with radius R will naturally sweep up any object within its radius (pi*R^2) but gravity will draw material from a greater distance S inside and outside its orbital path
>
> S=(R^2 + 2GMR/V^2)^1/2  
>
> M mass of body, V initial closing velocity of body and impactor
>
> Initially, you are correct, everything begins as a big clump of mixed material. Whether an iron core is formed will depend on the size of the initial clump of stuff. 
> Heat is generated by radioactivity of short lived isotopes such as Al26. If the rock is big enough, (which provides enough radioactive material to generate the heat AND enough lying over the middle to prevent the heat escaping, the body will melt. Once this begins, the iron will migrate to the core as rock and iron don't mix. Iron, being denser, will sink.
>
> Accretion to differentiation is a very rapid affair, just a few million years. The almost identical ages of all asteroidal meteorites tends to confirm this. 
>
> My understanding is that this leads to the different classes of achondrites. These have been properly melted and lose their chondrules. The widmanstatten patterns in irons comes from the rocky material insulating the iron/nickel core allowing it to cool very slowly. 
> Parent bodies forming in different orbits are likely to have differing constituents according the condensation model, hence different achondrite types.
>
> Chondrites may have come from smaller initial parent bodies, ones that weren't big enough to generate enough heat to fully melt. Higher petrographic types of chondrite (4-6) are samples that are progressively closer to the core and were heated more in bodies that were not properly differentiated. Petrographic type 3 are essentially the same material as the early solar system, mostly unaltered by heat, likely from near the surface of undifferentiated bodies. I don't see that all parent bodies would necessarily need 3-6 petrographic types. Small parent bodies may not reach the higher grades in the middle as they never got hot enough. Grade 6 seems to be the limit. If the parent body grew any bigger then it would melt producing a differentiated parent body.
> I think petrographic type goes to 7 but I don't think any are actually given this grade (though I think it was NWA3133 that may have been discussed as a possible). 
>
> It is likley that H, L and LL meteorites come from different parent bodies possibly from different regions in the protosolar nebula.
>
> The relative rarity of petrographic type 3 ordinary chondrites may be due to them being removed first and subsequently removed from the system many aeons ago.
>
> Carbonaceous Chondrites are a whole different kettle of fish but I think I've said quite enough for now. I hope I've not made any glaring errors but if I have someone will put me right.
>
> Rob Mc
>
>
>
>
>       
>
>   


-- 
Regards,
Eric Wichman
Meteorites USA
http://www.meteoritesusa.com
904-236-5394


From cynapse at charter.net  Tue Apr  7 13:46:54 2009
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2009 12:46:54 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Itsy bitsy teeny weeny basaltic meteorite
In-Reply-To: <EDA7A6815487454793293210FBA6592A@barb2>
References: <EDA7A6815487454793293210FBA6592A@barb2>
Message-ID: <ea4nt457apsbjav5ird32v8plp9bo9no8o@4ax.com>

Yellow polkadots unlikely.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7985788.stm


Tiny rock excites astrochemists

A "unique" micrometeorite found in Antarctica is challenging ideas about how
planets can form.

Detailed analysis has shown that the sample, known as MM40, has a chemical
composition unlike any other fragment of fallen space rock.

This, say experts, raises questions about where it originated in the Solar
System and how it was created.

It also means that astrochemists must expand their list of the combinations of
materials in planetary crusts.

The detailed analysis of MM04 was led by Matthieu Gounelle from the Laboratory
of Mineralogy and Cosmochemistry at the French Natural History Museum.

Published in PNAS, the analysis revealed the "unique" chemical composition of
MM04 despite it being only 150 microns across as its widest point - about half
the width of a written full stop.
	
Micrometeorites are often seen as the 'poor man's space probe'
Dr Caroline Smith, Natural History Museum

Dr Caroline Smith, curator of meteorites at the Natural History Museum, London,
UK, said the sample was important because of the role that the study of
meteorites played in our understanding of Solar System and planetary formation.

MM04 was a basaltic achondritic micrometeorite, said Dr Smith.

Achondritic meteorites were formed when the Solar System's planets were coming
into being. The substances in such meteorites and the processes they have
undergone can give clues about how the larger bodies were formed.

By contrast, chondritic meteorites were formed during the the Solar System's
early days before material had accreted into planets. They have not been altered
by the melting and re-crystalisation that has utterly transformed the nature of,
say, Earth rocks.

Dr Mahesh Anand, an astrochemist from the department of Earth & Environmental
Sciences at the Open University, said: "It is fascinating as to how much
information can be retrieved about the processes involved in planetary formation
from tiny fragments of extra-terrestrial material that routinely arrive on Earth
anonymously."

For Dr Smith, the excitement of MM04 lay in the mystery of its origins.

"We have basaltic meteorites that are thought to come from an asteroid called 4
Vesta and we also have basaltic meteorites from the Moon and Mars," said Dr
Smith.

"But [MM04's] chemistry does not match any of those places," she said. "It has
to be from somewhere else."

While its ultimate origins are a mystery it does have implications for the ways
that astrochemists thought planets could be formed. The analysis of MM04 showed
that the "inventory" of such processes must be expanded, said Dr Smith.

"Micrometeorites are often seen as the 'poor man's space probe'," said Dr Smith
"They land on Earth fortuitously and we do not have to spend millions of dollars
or euros on a robotic mission to get them."


From peterscherff at rcn.com  Tue Apr  7 12:56:02 2009
From: peterscherff at rcn.com (peterscherff at rcn.com)
Date: Tue,  7 Apr 2009 12:56:02 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteoritics
Message-ID: <20090407125602.BEQ04948@ms19.lnh.mail.rcn.net>

Hi,

	I am looking for a run of the journal Meteoritics and its successor publication. Does anyone have a set for sale?

Thanks,

Peter Scherff

From marc.d.fries at jpl.nasa.gov  Tue Apr  7 15:50:22 2009
From: marc.d.fries at jpl.nasa.gov (Fries, Marc D)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 12:50:22 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Note to anyone searching for the VA Beach fireball
Message-ID: <C600FC8E.74AE%Marc.D.Fries@jpl.nasa.gov>

Howdy all

    I haven?t heard from anyone searching for meteorites from the Virginia
Beach fireball from last week, so I?ll post this for general consumption.
If anyone is there, could you collect samples of meteorite particles for
analysis?  By that I mean covering a magnet with Saran Wrap (or its
equivalent) and drag it through some house gutters or along the drip line of
a large building.  If you'll wrap the plastic wrap over itself and send it
to me I'll finagle some time on an SEM and/or electron probe to identify the
meteorite type (hopefully).  Radar shows that fine debris settled to the
ground on the southern tip of the Delmarva peninsula with the help of strong
winds from the southeast, and even if all the sizable pieces turn out to be
fishy squishers we can at least identify the type of meteorite involved from
the tiny bits.
    Contact me off-list to set this up, por favor.

Cheers,
MDF


From marc.d.fries at jpl.nasa.gov  Tue Apr  7 16:07:06 2009
From: marc.d.fries at jpl.nasa.gov (Fries, Marc D)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 13:07:06 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Note to anyone searching for the VA Beach
 fireball
In-Reply-To: <C600FC8E.74AE%Marc.D.Fries@jpl.nasa.gov>
Message-ID: <C601007A.74B2%Marc.D.Fries@jpl.nasa.gov>

Should read "...from the southwest..."

> 
> ground on the southern tip of the Delmarva peninsula with the help of strong
> winds from the southeast, and even if all the sizable pieces turn out to be


From grf2 at verizon.net  Tue Apr  7 16:19:36 2009
From: grf2 at verizon.net (Jerry Flaherty)
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2009 16:19:36 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Questions about accretion.
References: <841457.5727.qm@web55203.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
	<49DB81F4.7030803@meteoritesusa.com>
Message-ID: <55D1E7A0C9384CB78159674FFC037853@ASUS>

Just a smigen bigger than not enough?
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Meteorites USA" <eric at meteoritesusa.com>
To: <rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com>; <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 12:40 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Questions about accretion.


> Thanks Rob! Great response. That pretty much sums it up for me and answers 
> just about everything I was curious about in that email.
>
> You mentioned...
>
> "..If the rock is big enough, (which provides enough radioactive material 
> to generate the heat AND enough lying over the middle to prevent the heat 
> escaping, the body will melt..."
>
> How big is "big enough"?
>
> Eric
>
>
>
>
> Rob McCafferty wrote:
>> Hi Eric
>>
>> You are correct in thinking that electrostatics causes the initial 
>> clumping.
>> The early sun would have been extremely energetic and X-ray and UV 
>> radiation would produce electro static charging of small particles.
>> Once they begin to clump to a sufficient size, they will attract 
>> particles through gravity.
>>
>> The dynamics are as follows
>> An object with radius R will naturally sweep up any object within its 
>> radius (pi*R^2) but gravity will draw material from a greater distance S 
>> inside and outside its orbital path
>>
>> S=(R^2 + 2GMR/V^2)^1/2
>> M mass of body, V initial closing velocity of body and impactor
>>
>> Initially, you are correct, everything begins as a big clump of mixed 
>> material. Whether an iron core is formed will depend on the size of the 
>> initial clump of stuff. Heat is generated by radioactivity of short lived 
>> isotopes such as Al26. If the rock is big enough, (which provides enough 
>> radioactive material to generate the heat AND enough lying over the 
>> middle to prevent the heat escaping, the body will melt. Once this 
>> begins, the iron will migrate to the core as rock and iron don't mix. 
>> Iron, being denser, will sink.
>>
>> Accretion to differentiation is a very rapid affair, just a few million 
>> years. The almost identical ages of all asteroidal meteorites tends to 
>> confirm this.
>> My understanding is that this leads to the different classes of 
>> achondrites. These have been properly melted and lose their chondrules. 
>> The widmanstatten patterns in irons comes from the rocky material 
>> insulating the iron/nickel core allowing it to cool very slowly. Parent 
>> bodies forming in different orbits are likely to have differing 
>> constituents according the condensation model, hence different achondrite 
>> types.
>>
>> Chondrites may have come from smaller initial parent bodies, ones that 
>> weren't big enough to generate enough heat to fully melt. Higher 
>> petrographic types of chondrite (4-6) are samples that are progressively 
>> closer to the core and were heated more in bodies that were not properly 
>> differentiated. Petrographic type 3 are essentially the same material as 
>> the early solar system, mostly unaltered by heat, likely from near the 
>> surface of undifferentiated bodies. I don't see that all parent bodies 
>> would necessarily need 3-6 petrographic types. Small parent bodies may 
>> not reach the higher grades in the middle as they never got hot enough. 
>> Grade 6 seems to be the limit. If the parent body grew any bigger then it 
>> would melt producing a differentiated parent body.
>> I think petrographic type goes to 7 but I don't think any are actually 
>> given this grade (though I think it was NWA3133 that may have been 
>> discussed as a possible).
>> It is likley that H, L and LL meteorites come from different parent 
>> bodies possibly from different regions in the protosolar nebula.
>>
>> The relative rarity of petrographic type 3 ordinary chondrites may be due 
>> to them being removed first and subsequently removed from the system many 
>> aeons ago.
>>
>> Carbonaceous Chondrites are a whole different kettle of fish but I think 
>> I've said quite enough for now. I hope I've not made any glaring errors 
>> but if I have someone will put me right.
>>
>> Rob Mc
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Regards,
> Eric Wichman
> Meteorites USA
> http://www.meteoritesusa.com
> 904-236-5394
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 


From meteoritefinder at gmail.com  Tue Apr  7 17:40:58 2009
From: meteoritefinder at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 14:40:58 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] (ad) I have added a couple items to the web site.
	Brenham translucent pallasite full slice and Meteorite knife
	Bowie style
Message-ID: <468bf6050904071440h6a112ff0n3f71db907a8daddd@mail.gmail.com>

Hello everyone if you are in the market for a killer green translucent
slice of Brenham and you want a big full slice you better not wait.
This is the only one that I am selling that will be this large and the
crystals are well some of the best I have seen. I also added the
largest Glorieta Bowie knife to date, it has Chinga spacers and a
Seymchan bolster, this knife it over 12 inches long! Wow now that a
knife!  Here is a link to my whats new page
http://www.meteoritefinder.com/whats-new-sale.htm

-- 
Mike Miller 230 Greenway Dr. Kingman Az 86401
www.meteoritefinder.com
     928-753-6825

From rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com  Tue Apr  7 18:02:15 2009
From: rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com (Rob McCafferty)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 15:02:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Questions about accretion.
In-Reply-To: <49DB81F4.7030803@meteoritesusa.com>
Message-ID: <803012.79257.qm@web55201.mail.re4.yahoo.com>



According to O. Richard Norton's Encyclopedia of Meteorites 2002, 
100-200km (abstract page for chapter 9)
Rob

--- On Tue, 4/7/09, Meteorites USA <eric at meteoritesusa.com> wrote:

> From: Meteorites USA <eric at meteoritesusa.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Questions about accretion.
> To: rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com, "meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Date: Tuesday, April 7, 2009, 5:40 PM
> Thanks Rob! Great response. That pretty much sums it up for
> me and answers just about everything I was curious about in
> that email.
> 
> You mentioned...
> 
> "..If the rock is big enough, (which provides enough
> radioactive material to generate the heat AND enough lying
> over the middle to prevent the heat escaping, the body will
> melt..."
> 
> How big is "big enough"?
> 
> Eric
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rob McCafferty wrote:
> > Hi Eric
> > 
> > You are correct in thinking that electrostatics causes
> the initial clumping.
> > The early sun would have been extremely energetic and
> X-ray and UV radiation would produce electro static charging
> of small particles.
> > Once they begin to clump to a sufficient size, they
> will attract particles through gravity.
> > 
> > The dynamics are as follows
> > An object with radius R will naturally sweep up any
> object within its radius (pi*R^2) but gravity will draw
> material from a greater distance S inside and outside its
> orbital path
> > 
> > S=(R^2 + 2GMR/V^2)^1/2  
> > M mass of body, V initial closing velocity of body and
> impactor
> > 
> > Initially, you are correct, everything begins as a big
> clump of mixed material. Whether an iron core is formed will
> depend on the size of the initial clump of stuff. Heat is
> generated by radioactivity of short lived isotopes such as
> Al26. If the rock is big enough, (which provides enough
> radioactive material to generate the heat AND enough lying
> over the middle to prevent the heat escaping, the body will
> melt. Once this begins, the iron will migrate to the core as
> rock and iron don't mix. Iron, being denser, will sink.
> > 
> > Accretion to differentiation is a very rapid affair,
> just a few million years. The almost identical ages of all
> asteroidal meteorites tends to confirm this. 
> > My understanding is that this leads to the different
> classes of achondrites. These have been properly melted and
> lose their chondrules. The widmanstatten patterns in irons
> comes from the rocky material insulating the iron/nickel
> core allowing it to cool very slowly. Parent bodies forming
> in different orbits are likely to have differing
> constituents according the condensation model, hence
> different achondrite types.
> > 
> > Chondrites may have come from smaller initial parent
> bodies, ones that weren't big enough to generate enough
> heat to fully melt. Higher petrographic types of chondrite
> (4-6) are samples that are progressively closer to the core
> and were heated more in bodies that were not properly
> differentiated. Petrographic type 3 are essentially the same
> material as the early solar system, mostly unaltered by
> heat, likely from near the surface of undifferentiated
> bodies. I don't see that all parent bodies would
> necessarily need 3-6 petrographic types. Small parent bodies
> may not reach the higher grades in the middle as they never
> got hot enough. Grade 6 seems to be the limit. If the parent
> body grew any bigger then it would melt producing a
> differentiated parent body.
> > I think petrographic type goes to 7 but I don't
> think any are actually given this grade (though I think it
> was NWA3133 that may have been discussed as a possible). 
> > It is likley that H, L and LL meteorites come from
> different parent bodies possibly from different regions in
> the protosolar nebula.
> > 
> > The relative rarity of petrographic type 3 ordinary
> chondrites may be due to them being removed first and
> subsequently removed from the system many aeons ago.
> > 
> > Carbonaceous Chondrites are a whole different kettle
> of fish but I think I've said quite enough for now. I
> hope I've not made any glaring errors but if I have
> someone will put me right.
> > 
> > Rob Mc
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >       
> >   
> 
> 
> -- Regards,
> Eric Wichman
> Meteorites USA
> http://www.meteoritesusa.com
> 904-236-5394


      

From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Tue Apr  7 18:09:13 2009
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 15:09:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA Selects Material for Orion Spacecraft Heat
	Shield
Message-ID: <200904072209.PAA03702@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>



April 06, 2009

Steve Cole 
Headquarters, Washington 
202-358-0918 
stephen.e.cole at nasa.gov 

Jane Beitler 
National Snow and Ice Data Center, Boulder, Colo. 
303-492-1497 
jbeitler at nsidc.org 

RELEASE: 09-079

SATELLITES SHOW ARCTIC LITERALLY ON THIN ICE

WASHINGTON -- The latest Arctic sea ice data from NASA and the 
National Snow and Ice Data Center show that the decade-long trend of 
shrinking sea ice cover is continuing. New evidence from satellite 
observations also shows that the ice cap is thinning as well. 

Arctic sea ice works like an air conditioner for the global climate 
system. Ice naturally cools air and water masses, plays a key role in 
ocean circulation, and reflects solar radiation back into space. In 
recent years, Arctic sea ice has been declining at a surprising rate. 

Scientists who track Arctic sea ice cover from space announced today 
that this winter had the fifth lowest maximum ice extent on record. 
The six lowest maximum events since satellite monitoring began in 
1979 have all occurred in the past six years (2004-2009). 

Until recently, the majority of Arctic sea ice survived at least one 
summer and often several. But things have changed dramatically, 
according to a team of University of Colorado, Boulder, scientists 
led by Charles Fowler. Thin seasonal ice -- ice that melts and 
re-freezes every year -- makes up about 70 percent of the Arctic sea 
ice in wintertime, up from 40 to 50 percent in the 1980s and 1990s. 
Thicker ice, which survives two or more years, now comprises just 10 
percent of wintertime ice cover, down from 30 to 40 percent. 

According to researchers from the National Snow and Ice Data Center in 
Boulder, Colo., the maximum sea ice extent for 2008-09, reached on 
Feb. 28, was 5.85 million square miles. That is 278,000 square miles 
less than the average extent for 1979 to 2000. 

"Ice extent is an important measure of the health of the Arctic, but 
it only gives us a two-dimensional view of the ice cover," said 
Walter Meier, research scientist at the center and the University of 
Colorado, Boulder. "Thickness is important, especially in the winter, 
because it is the best overall indicator of the health of the ice 
cover. As the ice cover in the Arctic grows thinner, it grows more 
vulnerable to melting in the summer." 

The Arctic ice cap grows each winter as the sun sets for several 
months and intense cold sets in. Some of that ice is naturally pushed 
out of the Arctic by winds, while much of it melts in place during 
summer. The thicker, older ice that survives one or more summers is 
more likely to persist through the next summer. 

Sea ice thickness has been hard to measure directly, so scientists 
have typically used estimates of ice age to approximate its 
thickness. But last year a team of researchers led by Ron Kwok of 
NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif., produced the 
first map of sea ice thickness over the entire Arctic basin. 

Using two years of data from NASA's Ice, Cloud, and land Elevation 
Satellite (ICESat), Kwok's team estimated thickness and volume of the 
Arctic Ocean ice cover for 2005 and 2006. They found that the average 
winter volume of Arctic sea ice contained enough water to fill Lake 
Michigan and Lake Superior combined. 

The older, thicker sea ice is declining and is being replaced with 
newer, thinner ice that is more vulnerable to summer melt, according 
to Kwok. His team found that seasonal sea ice averages about 6 feet 
in thickness, while ice that had lasted through more than one summer 
averages about 9 feet, though it can grow much thicker in some 
locations near the coast. 

Kwok is currently working to extend the ICESat estimate further, from 
2003 to 2008, to see how the recent decline in the area covered by 
sea ice is mirrored in changes in its volume. 

"With these new data on both the area and thickness of Arctic sea ice, 
we will be able to better understand the sensitivity and 
vulnerability of the ice cover to changes in climate," Kwok said. 

For more information about Arctic sea ice, visit: 

http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/arctic_thinice.html 

and 

http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews 

For more information about NASA and agency programs, visit: 

http://www.nasa.gov 
	
-end-


From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Tue Apr  7 18:12:25 2009
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 15:12:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA Selects Material for Orion Spacecraft Heat
	Shield
Message-ID: <200904072212.PAA04433@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>



April 7, 2009

Ashley Edwards/Grey Hautaluoma 
Headquarters, Washington 
202-358-1756/0668 
ashley.edwards-1 at nasa.gov, grey.hautaluoma-1 at nasa.gov 

Kylie Clem 
Johnson Space Center, Houston 
281-483-5111 
kylie.s.clem at nasa.gov 

RELEASE: 09-080

NASA SELECTS MATERIAL FOR ORION SPACECRAFT HEAT SHIELD

HOUSTON -- NASA has chosen the material for a heat shield that will 
protect a new generation of space explorers when they return from the 
moon. After extensive study, NASA has selected the Avcoat ablator 
system for the Orion crew module. 

Orion is part of the Constellation Program that is developing the 
country's next-generation spacecraft system for human exploration of 
the moon and further destinations in the solar system. The Orion crew 
module, which will launch atop an Ares I rocket, is targeted to begin 
carrying astronauts to the International Space Station in 2015 and to 
the moon in 2020. 

Orion will face extreme conditions during its voyage to the moon and 
on the journey home. On the blistering return through Earth's 
atmosphere, the module will encounter temperatures as high as 5,000 
degrees Fahrenheit. Heating rates may be up to five times more 
extreme than rates for missions returning from the International 
Space Station. Orion's heat shield, the dish-shaped thermal 
protection system at the base of the spacecraft, will endure the most 
heat and will erode, or "ablate," in a controlled fashion, 
transporting heat away from the crew module during its descent 
through the atmosphere. 

To protect the spacecraft and its crew from such severe conditions, 
the Orion Project Office at NASA's Johnson Space Center in Houston 
identified a team to develop the thermal protection system, or TPS, 
heat shield. For more than three years, NASA's Orion Thermal 
Protection System Advanced Development Project considered eight 
different candidate materials, including the two final candidates, 
Avcoat and Phenolic Impregnated Carbon Ablator, or PICA, both of 
which have proven successful in previous space missions. 

Avcoat was used for the Apollo capsule heat shield and on select 
regions of the space shuttle orbiter in its earliest flights. It was 
put back into production for the study. It is made of silica fibers 
with an epoxy-novalic resin filled in a fiberglass-phenolic honeycomb 
and is manufactured directly onto the heat shield substructure and 
attached as a unit to the crew module during spacecraft assembly. 
PICA, which is manufactured in blocks and attached to the vehicle 
after fabrication, was used on Stardust, NASA's first robotic space 
mission dedicated solely to exploring a comet, and the first sample 
return mission since Apollo. 

"NASA made a significant technology development effort, conducted 
thousands of tests, and tapped into the facilities, talents and 
resources across the agency to understand how these materials would 
perform on Orion's five-meter wide heat shield," said James Reuther, 
the project manager of the study at NASA's Ames Research Center at 
Moffett Field, Calif. "We manufactured full-scale demonstrations to 
prove they could be efficiently and reliably produced for Orion." 

Ames led the study in cooperation with experts from across the agency. 
Engineers performed rigorous thermal, structural and environmental 
testing on both candidate materials. The team then compared the 
materials based on mass, thermal and structural performance, life 
cycle costs, manufacturability, reliability and certification 
challenges. NASA, working with Orion prime contractor Lockheed 
Martin, recommended Avcoat as the more robust, reliable and mature 
system. 

"The biggest challenge with Avcoat has been reviving the technology to 
manufacture the material such that its performance is similar to what 
was demonstrated during the Apollo missions," said John Kowal, 
Orion's thermal protection system manager at Johnson. "Once that had 
been accomplished, the system evaluations clearly indicated that 
Avcoat was the preferred system." 

In partnership with the material subcontractor, Textron Defense 
Systems of Wilmington, Mass., Lockheed Martin will continue 
development of the material for Orion. While Avcoat was selected as 
the better of the two candidates, more research is needed to 
integrate it completely into Orion's design. 

For more information about the Orion crew module, visit: 

http://www.nasa.gov/orion 

For more information about the Constellation Program, visit: 

http://www.nasa.gov/constellation 
	
-end-


From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Tue Apr  7 18:14:34 2009
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 15:14:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars Exploration Rovers Update - March 26-31, 2009
Message-ID: <200904072214.PAA05521@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>


http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/mission/status.html

SPIRIT UPDATE:  More Bright Soil Exposed by Driving - sols 1859-1864,
March 26-31, 2009:

Spirit is running under new flight software, version R9.3, and all is
working well. The rover continued driving around the west of "Home Plate."

A drive on Sol 1861 (March 28, 2009) achieved almost 23 meters (75 feet)
and something extra. Light-toned soil was unearthed by the right-front
wheel as the rover drove along this western portion of Home Plate. The
science team, suspecting that this may be more silica, developed a
contact science campaign for this revealed material. On Sol 1863 (March
30, 2009), the robotic arm (IDD) was deployed and extended to the
light-toned soil. A microscopic imager (MI) stack of images was
collected and then the alpha particle X-ray spectrometer (APXS) was
placed right on the target soil. Integration with the APXS continued
through Sol 1864 (March 31, 2009). Observations of this light-toned
material were also made with the miniature thermal emission spectrometer
(Mini-TES).

As of Sol 1864 (March 31, 2009), Spirit's solar array energy production
is 223 watt-hours. Atmospheric opacity (tau) remains elevated at 1.19.
The dust factor on the solar array has worsened slightly to 0.297,
meaning that 29.7 percent of sunlight hitting the solar array penetrates
the layer of accumulated dust on the array. The rover is in good health
despite dusty skies. Spirit's total odometry is 7,686.61 meters (4.78
miles).

------------------------------------------------------------------------

OPPORTUNITY UPDATE:  Examining Rock's Interior - sols 1838-1843, 
March 26-31, 2009:

Opportunity remains positioned on an exposed rock outcrop and is
continuing a contact science campaign with the robotic arm (IDD). On Sol
1838 (March 26, 2009), the rock abrasion tool (RAT) was operated for 3
hours to grind 3 millimeters (one-tenth of an inch) into the selected
rock outcrop target. The grind, using the work-around for the failed
encoder, worked as sequenced. Documentary imagery was collected of the
new RAT hole. Then the Moessbauer (MB) spectrometer was placed in the RAT
hole for a long integration. On Sol 1840 (March 28, 2009), stereo
imagery by the microscopic imager (MI) was collected and the MB
positioned for further readings. On Sol 1843 (March 31, 2009), after a
few sols of MB integration, images documenting the MB placement on the
RAT tailings were collected and then the alpha particle X-ray
spectrometer (APXS) was placed on the target for its integration.

As of Sol 1843 (March 31, 2009), Opportunity's solar array energy
production is 346 watt-hours, equivalent to the amount used by a
100-watt bulb lit for about three and a half hours. Atmospheric opacity
(tau) remains elevated at 1.20. The dust factor on the solar array has
improved slightly to 0.512, meaning that 51.2 percent of sunlight
hitting the solar array penetrates the layer of accumulated dust on the
array. Both rovers are experiencing elevated atmospheric opacity as
large storms to the south generate a lot of high-altitude dust.

Opportunity is in good health, with total odometry remaining at
15,051.44 meters (9.35 miles).


From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com  Tue Apr  7 19:11:27 2009
From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 19:11:27 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - April 7, 2009
Message-ID: <bd7.47e64336.370d379f@aol.com>


http://www.rocksfromspace.org/April_7_2009.html






__________________________   

**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy 
steps! 
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From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com  Tue Apr  7 20:25:11 2009
From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 17:25:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] FREE LL4 material for XRD use
Message-ID: <647141.2074.qm@web45603.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>


I have just had some slices cut of an LL4 (based on preliminary testing) and have some cutting fragments that would do well for XRD study.
I would be willing to offer some free to educational institutions for study/testing.
Anyone interested, please contact me off list.
I have a limited amount of this, most likely enough to supply 3-4 places, so its first come first serve basis.

Greg C.


      


From info at meteorites.com.au  Tue Apr  7 20:58:16 2009
From: info at meteorites.com.au (Jeff Kuyken)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 10:58:16 +1000
Subject: [meteorite-list] Monthly Favourite - March 2009
Message-ID: <9C6E7191189E4305B6E07D4848B20FC1@JeffPC>

http://www.meteorites.com.au/favourite/march2009.html

Cheers,

Jeff 

From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Tue Apr  7 21:48:45 2009
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2009 18:48:45 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Calgary Fireball
Message-ID: <49DC027D.7050007@meteoritesusa.com>

Anyone have any other info on this one?

--------------------------------------------
Calgary Fireball
Colourful start to commute as fireball explodes in sky
UPDATED: 2009-04-01 02:30:19 MST

By KATIE SCHNEIDER

The commute to work got a little bit brighter yesterday when a 
multi-coloured fireball streaked across the Calgary sky and exploded 
like fireworks.

Patricia Larson was driving to work with her husband on 12 Ave. S.W., 
about 6:30 a.m., when she saw a bright blue-green light smear in a 
north-south direction and then break apart into fragments after about 20 
seconds.

"It was so bright, a very cool colour -- I haven't seen one that bright 
and not that big," she said.

Martin Lewanzick was driving on Glenmore Tr., at 84 St. S.E., about the 
same time when he saw the fireball that he described as white and blue 
in colour explode before his eyes. "It was really low in the sky, it was 
really wild -- it looked like a welder's torch," he said. "It blew up 
right in front of me and broke into a million pieces and fizzled."

Alan Hildebrand, a University of Calgary planetary scientist and 
co-ordinator of the Canadian Fireball Reporting Centre, said he will 
review photos and talk to witnesses to determine if the space rock left 
behind any meteorites. The show was also seen in Edmonton, Red Deer and 
Regina areas.

http://calsun.canoe.ca/News/Alberta/2009/04/01/8958726-sun.html

--------------------------------------------

-- 
Regards,
Eric Wichman
Meteorites USA
http://www.meteoritesusa.com
904-236-5394


From mstreman53 at yahoo.com  Tue Apr  7 22:19:56 2009
From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 19:19:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Questions about accretion. Part 1 Aluminium 26,
	and Asteroid ages
Message-ID: <357368.63438.qm@web55207.mail.re4.yahoo.com>


My ISP continues to lose much of my email else send them in huge batches.

Some additional points to what was discussed thus far: 

Iron migration to the core of a heat building/holding sized body is a buoyancy issue and gravity driven so long as the iron remains molten.  

Accretion probably had an electrostatic component which may be an anti accretion force, there was some covalent molecular bonding but as strange as it seems the primary attractant has to be gravity  yes molecule to molecule-- chondrule to chondrule.  Chondrule formation is a whole other treatise not covered here.

After accretion:
Aluminum 26 is a radioactive isotope with half life of .73(?)million years which decays to Magnesium 26. The bulk occurrence of Al26 in the early solar system had to be ejected from a solar fission furnace. When we find magnesium within a crystal matrix where aluminum should be, we know it started out as an atom of Al26. The heat of that Al26 decay is widely believed to be the driver for differentiating in asteroids accreted from chondrules and non-chondrule particles. Except for the planetary meteorites and Impact Melt Breccias(IMB) all original common chondrite to achondrite parent body conversion appears to have taken place in the approximate 15-20 Million years starting with the formation of the current solar system. The first 5 million being the time when accretion was ongoing. 

There are two theories of H Chondrite parent body formation. Both include zones.  One is that there were multiple H class parents of different sizes yielding different petrological classes.  The other is that there were but one or very few H parent bodies and what started off as H3 and melted from  heat distributed inside to out. As the heat source ran lower and lower, the chondrite "cake" was left partially uncooked resulting in an "onion layer" set of zones with H3 on the surface and H7/achondrite toward the center(yep with an iron core)

Either way, there is a successive fall off of formation/cool-off ages in H Class formation ages and that is to be expected. H3 chondrite zones/bodies ran out of heat earlier than H5s so fewer chondrules were melted (thermally metamorphosed). As a class, H3s zones congealed a bit earlier than the other H4,H5,H6 zones. Because Al26 was more or less uniformly distributed, we may infer that H3s either came from smaller bodies which were barely large enough to hold some heat but not large enough to let the full melting cycle run to achondrite sizes. And/or They come from the crustal regions of a substantial sized asteroid.  Either way they were liberated in a major disruption that exposed them down to their cores.  From Widmanstatten studies we know that the cooling at the metallic core was a very slow rate of a a couple to a few tens of degrees per million years. I am sure somewhere someone has cross referenced these rates to improve on what we believe we
 know about asteroid formation ages. 

For more reading:
<http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu/Sept02/Al26clock.html>
(See the last chart on the above link for asteroid/meteoroid formation ages)
<http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Aluminum+emerges+as+early+timekeeper-a018639626>

Elton

Note that Formation age, Cosmic Ray Exposure age(CRE) are not the same. The formation age of meteoric material may or not be the same age as when it was liberated/ejected from the parent body depending if the shock was sufficient to reset the atomic clocks.


From mstreman53 at yahoo.com  Tue Apr  7 22:33:38 2009
From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 19:33:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Questions about accretion. Part 2 UAE,
	Shock wave distribution proto Solar System
In-Reply-To: <803012.79257.qm@web55201.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <837397.52762.qm@web55208.mail.re4.yahoo.com>


There was a question regarding the sorting of elements and why for example common chondrules had more iron than did Carbonaceous chondrites. The reason for the difference also includes why we use isotope ratios to determine from where a parent body probably formed within the solar system.

Sometime in early solar system development there was a sustained and or repeated strong solar wind or mini-nova, or perhaps our own ancestral sun's predecessor nearby supernova, or other cosmic water hose(?) that sweep through the swirling matter in the proto-solar disk, significantly sorting it out by elemental and molecular weights. Heavier particles weren't pushed out as far as the lighter ones.  Thus we have heavy to light sorting of particles/ elements/ molecules/ solids/ gases etc from the inner rocky planets at one end to the giant gas planets beyond the asteroid belt and all way out to the Ort cloud.  The sorting was not perfect but did rearrange the mixtures of elements locally.  Conservation of angular momentum must have broken down at some level such that the Oort Cloud is theorized to be more or less spherical while planetary masses tend to lie close to the plane of the ecliptic. (This glitch influences measured elemental ratios of our known
 solar system and just mentioned for those paying attention)

Thus before significant planetary accretion(first 3-5 million years?) we experienced a cycle of sorting that left zones of like particles to be accreted.  This sorting also locally affected the ratios of the individual isotopes of elements from a concept we know as the Universal Abundance of the Elements.(UAE)  (The UAE says that based on human measurements the mass of the universe is concentrated in the first 20 elements which incidentally were the main elements associated with living processes). 

 When the local Solar system abundance of the UAE was disturbed, distribution of isotope ratios were also skewed in the local solar system.  Ergo oxygen isotope studies in meteorites tell us what relative distance/radius a parent body formed away from the sun. 

On Earth the ratios for Oxygen: O18(Tritium)-O17(Deuterium)-O16 is something like 18O / 16O = 2005.20 ?0.43 ppm (a ratio of 1 part per approximately 498.7 parts) 17O / 16O = 379.9 ?1.6 ppm (a ratio of 1 part per approximately 2632 parts)  This ratio signature is specific to an origin in the Earth Moon distance and there is a different one for Mars, the asteroid belt, Jupiter, Saturn and carbonaceous chondrites etc.  Complications to this gradient include the amount of oxygen returned to earth via comets in what was known as the great bombardment-- back skewing the post shockwave sorting in the early sweep out.  

Ok we are at the end almost.  O18 being two neutrons heavier takes more latent energy to vaporize and results in a slight concentration of its ratio in seawater depending on how much extra energy is around.  The colder the climate the more O18 gets left behind in seawater and available for building carbonate seashells.  The higher the temperature trends the more gets evaporated and a portion of that gets preserved in paleo-ice cores.  Thus ratios differ in sequestrations such as in coral reefs and sea shells. This characteristic makes O18 content in ancient ice cores and fossil shells equivalent to a paleo thermometer.

Long way around answering why some classes of meteorites have more iron in them than others.

Elton

From mikewren at gilanet.com  Tue Apr  7 23:25:46 2009
From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 20:25:46 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: 10% to 35% Off In My Ebay Store & Some Nice
	Auctions Ending Tomorrow...
References: <A7C8E290-A88D-499A-A043-BECF4777EAF4@gilanet.com>
Message-ID: <7F29EAC6-A974-4081-98B6-FDD33D18C58F@gilanet.com>



>>
>>
>>
>> Here is this week's Space Rocks!
>>
>>
>> HIGHLIGHTS:
>>
>> RARE-A SLICE Of CARANCAS, Peru, H4-5, 2.17g, My Last Auction Slice!
>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326745949
>>
>> (New) Olivine Diogenite-NWA 5480, 23.72 gram, A very Large End Cut  
>> and Worth A Lot!
>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326751497
>>
>> Rare "Hammer Stone" DIEP RIVER, S.Africa,LTKW, One of The Rarest!
>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326770735
>>
>> (NEW) NWA 4851, L6 With Shock Lines, 236 Gram, My Last 1/2 stone of  
>> This Beauty!
>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326769256
>>
>> (New) WILBUR WASH, Az., L6, Slice, 44.98 gram, A Very Large Slice  
>> Being Offered!
>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326759168
>>
>> CANYON DIABLO Individual, 268 gram, A Really Nice Specimen.
>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326758383
>>
>> Superb New-Main Mass, NWA 5541, H6, 138 gram, MAIN MASS * MAIN MASS
>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326760336
>>
>> Ungrouped Ataxite, DRONINO, Russia, 152 g, MY LAST SLICE!
>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326757030
>>
>> Rare Mesosiderite- NWA 1878 , LTKW, 12.2 gram, A Real Cool Slice!
>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326749654
>>
>> Very Rare-COOLAC, IAB Iron From Australia, ONLY ONE I HAVE!
>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326757694
>>
>> Very Rare and Beautiful, NWA 801, CR2, 6.48g, My Last Large Slice!
>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326747907
>>
>> NWA 5537, LL3.5, LTKW 10.32g, Take A Look At This One...
>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326761350
>>
>> Rare NWA 2696, Howardite From Africa, 7.66g, Nice Slice...
>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326746994
>>
>> Museum Specimen of FUKANG, Pallasite, 1664g, Actually A Great Deal  
>> For The Right Person.. Wholesale Price or Less!
>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326372531
>>
>> Rare Carbonaceous CO3.6, NWA 1277, 0.94 gram...
>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326750254
>>
>> An Early # NWA 103, L6 From Africa, 39.76g, My Last Specimen...
>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326749027
>>
>> Rare NWA 2932, Mesosiderite, Nice! 8.13 gram, Really Nice Slice...
>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326748461
>>
>> Seldom Available BRISCOE, Texas, L5, 3.22g, a simple classic
>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326745978
>>
>> Nice H3 From Namibia, KORRA KORRABES, 17.99 g, nice specimen.
>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326745968
>>
>> Rare Fall From Turkmenistan, DASHOGUZ, 0.46g, last one I have.
>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326745965
>>
>> Rare Type, H3.5, WELLMAN (f), Texas, 4.03g, a very rare type.
>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326745955
>>
>> (New) CV3, NWA 5546 From Africa, 44.32 gram, a Really GREAT and  
>> Large Specimen!
>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326761993
>>
>> Classic GOLD BASIN, Arizona, L4, 79.72 gram, A Classic. Nice  
>> Individual!
>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326766778
>>
>> Seldom Available TAHOKA, Texas, L5, 2.4 g, A nice rarity.
>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326768078
>>
>> VYATKA, Russia, H4/5 Chondrite, 5.86g
>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326767554
>>
>> Classic GOLD BASIN, Arizona, L4, 17.75 gram, nice slice!
>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326766785
>>
>> Seldom Available SOUSLOVO, Russia, L4, 2.04g, hardly ever available.
>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326767171
>>
>>
>>
>> I also have some West, Texas slices and individuals on sale about  
>> 10% off. Do not expect me to offer these any lower. These are  
>> pristine specimens from before the rains. Although, I have more I  
>> will be listing that my son and I found after the rains and some of  
>> these will be lower in cost. Even though the total known weight is  
>> now probably around 12kg., very little of this witnessed and unique  
>> fall will ever be on the market. I really have not seen that much  
>> for sale and none of us probably won't. That fall is about over, as  
>> far as recoverable stones go.
>>
>> (VERY NEW) The WEST, Texas Fall, L6, 0.45g
>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326381394
>>
>> (VERY NEW) The WEST, Texas Fall, L6, 3.27g
>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326381380
>>
>> (VERY NEW) The WEST, Texas Fall, L6, 0.30g
>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326373735
>>
>> (VERY NEW) The WEST, Texas Fall, L6, 0.66g
>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326381365
>>
>> (VERY NEW) The WEST, Texas Fall, L6, 17.76g
>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326375764
>>
>> (VERY NEW) The WEST, Texas Fall, L6, 21.74g
>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326375767
>>
>> and of course many, many more great West Specimens!
>>
>> Thanks for Looking and Best Wishes
>>
>> Michael Cottingham
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>


From m_graul at yahoo.de  Wed Apr  8 07:00:24 2009
From: m_graul at yahoo.de (Mirko Graul)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 11:00:24 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: 3 interesting auctions / Wimberley and Tamdakht
Message-ID: <71536.16369.qm@web26304.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>


Dear List members,

i have list on ebay 3 interesting auctions.
One slice of rare Texas iron Wimberley.
The other both auctions are a nice dealers lot/15 pieces of Tamdakht and 
a large and nice 837g fragment!!
All auctions start by $1.99

Here the links:

Wimberley 14.2g slice

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=270368321587

Tamdakht 15 pieces / 150.5g

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=270369829209

and the large 837g fragment with nice fusion crust!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=250402161115

thank you for interest and many greetings to all,

Mirko
    

Mirko Graul Meteorite 
Quittenring.4 
16321 Bernau 
GERMANY 

Phone: 0049-1724105015 
E-Mail: m_graul at yahoo.de 
WEB: www.meteorite-mirko.de 

Member of The Meteoritical Society 
(International Society for Meteoritics and Planetery Science) 

IMCA-Member: 2113 
(International Meteorite Collectors Association)


      

From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com  Wed Apr  8 07:47:59 2009
From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 07:47:59 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - April 8, 2009
Message-ID: <cab.43250899.370de8ef@aol.com>

http://www.rocksfromspace.org/April_8_2009.html




__________________________   

**************New Deals on Dell Netbooks ? Now starting at $299 (A 
HREF=http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1219939010x1201342897/aol?redir=http:%2F
%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B213771626%3B35379597%3Bw)

From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Wed Apr  8 11:07:35 2009
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 10:07:35 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Double Bolide - Linked Event?
Message-ID: <e51421550904080807k682b6450l15a9cd9f80379038@mail.gmail.com>

Hi List!

I ran across this article last night and I am curious about the event
in question.  Were these 2 fireballs ever definitively linked?  And
were any specimens ever recovered?

http://fgms.home.att.net/fallstar.htm

Best regards,

MikeG

.........................................................
Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA)
Member of the Meteoritical Society.
Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network.
Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com
..........................................................

From drtanuki at yahoo.com  Wed Apr  8 12:24:25 2009
From: drtanuki at yahoo.com (drtanuki)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 09:24:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD   Tektites offered for sale
Message-ID: <704757.35667.qm@web53201.mail.re2.yahoo.com>


Dear List,
  I am making a second offer to those that may or may have not read my first ad for tektites for sale.  Those interested please contact me off list.  Thank you.  Dirk Ross...Tokyo

I had several dozen happy buyers from the first round of sales.  Thank you to all that purchased!!!!

From meteoritics at gmail.com  Wed Apr  8 12:50:57 2009
From: meteoritics at gmail.com (Bill Hall)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 09:50:57 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Is this an ethical way to treat a meteorite?
Message-ID: <883a36d30904080950x4422c1e2h83fee24c994ca3a6@mail.gmail.com>

Hello list,
               I have an assortment of "OLD" Campos I purchased from a
guy who lives in a very humid climate. When I received them, they were
extremely rusty, and big flakes of rust falling off every time I would
even look sideways at them. I debated with trying the galvanic
cleansing, wire brushing, shot peening, acid baths, etc. etc. or just
slicing them up, and grinding off the crusty edges. In fact I have
done all of these things to test pieces, with less than miraculous
results. It was, and still is my personal belief that if the rust can
be removed ENTIRELY, and Either soak them in trans fluid, or carnuba
spray wax, that they will stabilize. In fact it appears I may have
done so, but with some interesting side affects. I know many meteorite
enthusiasts are against changing the natural appearance of a
meteorite, with good reason, However considering the circumstances and
possible repercussions of doing nothing at all I have transformed an
old Campo.

This process removes ALL rust, leaves small splotches of shiny fusion
crust ( at least it sure appears to be ) and provides  nice polish. It
also appears to have stopped all further oxidation, and no sign of
laurencite disease. I am not able to perform this process without the
final polish, so I get stuck with a shiny meteorite. I have seen
people go another step to remove the shine, I just kind of like it for
now....

And on another note: As Joe Dirt said to Kickin wing, "Well that might
be your problem, its not what you like, its the consumer". I have
shown rusty irons to people who scowl, and exclaim "why do you think
its a meteorite!"  But when I show them a polished Iron their faces
light up in utter amazement, and will often offer $1 gram or more for
them...........Just something to consider.

Please check out the photos on photo bucket, and let me know your
honest opinions. If the consensus is that this is an EVIL thing to do
to a meteorite I will surly take it into consideration. No doubt it
will make some frown, and give some hope to others.



                             Bill Hall

http://s680.photobucket.com/albums/vv162/meteoritepictures/

From joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com  Wed Apr  8 12:59:57 2009
From: joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com (JoshuaTreeMuseum)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 12:59:57 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Neither Carbonado Nor Meteorite
Message-ID: <A1DF60D80FB8427B90BF63F04C55F1EB@ET>

Yet another meteorwrong on eBay. I'm pretty sure it's not a diamond either. 
Carbonados are black for one thing.....A raw meteorite as opposed to a 
cooked one?

http://cgi.ebay.com/731CT-1-RAW-METEORITE-NATURAL-UNCUT-ROUGH-DIAMONDS_W0QQitemZ300305686988QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item300305686988&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1309%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

Phil Whitmer 


From joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com  Wed Apr  8 13:07:37 2009
From: joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com (JoshuaTreeMuseum)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 13:07:37 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Whole Line Of Iron Meteorwrongs
Message-ID: <C600345E9154460CB8BF5AA65753423B@ET>

This guy has a whole line of carved iron meteorwrongs:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170317977573&ssPageName=MERCOSI_VI_ROSI_PR4_PCN_BIX_Stores&refitem=170317182008&itemcount=4&refwidgetloc=closed_view_item&refwidgettype=osi_widget&_trksid=p284.m263&_trkparms=algo%3DSIC%26its%3DI%252BC%252BP%252BS%252BIA%26itu%3DIA%252BUCI%252BUA%26otn%3D4%26ps%3D10


Just checking eBay's current meteorwrong offerings,

Phil Whitmer 


From jbaxter112 at pol.net  Wed Apr  8 13:20:00 2009
From: jbaxter112 at pol.net (jbaxter112 at pol.net)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 13:20:00 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Is this an ethical way to treat a meteorite?
In-Reply-To: <883a36d30904080950x4422c1e2h83fee24c994ca3a6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <883a36d30904080950x4422c1e2h83fee24c994ca3a6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <48813.10.250.10.1.1239211200.squirrel@webmail.medscape.com>

Hi Bill,

I'm one of the subset of collectors who prefers the 'natural patina' on
the surface of irons in general and I tend to go for the least treated
specimens. That being said, some people clearly prefer the shiny treated
irons, and if your process allows some kids at a show, say, to get an iron
meteorite and get interested in the hobby, I'd say more power to you. I do
think buyers should see or hear your clear explanation of the starting
status of your material(maybe a demo 'before' and 'after' specimen or
photo would be nice).

How long have you observed these after cleaning? My mantra has always been
that the gold standard for stability of irons is time on the shelf without
rusting.

Cheers,
Jim Baxter

> Hello list,
>                I have an assortment of "OLD" Campos I purchased from a
> guy who lives in a very humid climate. When I received them, they were
> extremely rusty, and big flakes of rust falling off every time I would
> even look sideways at them. I debated with trying the galvanic
> cleansing, wire brushing, shot peening, acid baths, etc. etc. or just
> slicing them up, and grinding off the crusty edges. In fact I have done
> all of these things to test pieces, with less than miraculous results.
> It was, and still is my personal belief that if the rust can be removed
> ENTIRELY, and Either soak them in trans fluid, or carnuba spray wax,
> that they will stabilize. In fact it appears I may have done so, but
> with some interesting side affects. I know many meteorite enthusiasts
> are against changing the natural appearance of a
> meteorite, with good reason, However considering the circumstances and
> possible repercussions of doing nothing at all I have transformed an old
> Campo.
>
> This process removes ALL rust, leaves small splotches of shiny fusion
> crust ( at least it sure appears to be ) and provides  nice polish. It
> also appears to have stopped all further oxidation, and no sign of
> laurencite disease. I am not able to perform this process without the
> final polish, so I get stuck with a shiny meteorite. I have seen
> people go another step to remove the shine, I just kind of like it for
> now....
>
> And on another note: As Joe Dirt said to Kickin wing, "Well that might
> be your problem, its not what you like, its the consumer". I have
> shown rusty irons to people who scowl, and exclaim "why do you think its
> a meteorite!"  But when I show them a polished Iron their faces light up
> in utter amazement, and will often offer $1 gram or more for
> them...........Just something to consider.
>
> Please check out the photos on photo bucket, and let me know your
> honest opinions. If the consensus is that this is an EVIL thing to do to
> a meteorite I will surly take it into consideration. No doubt it will
> make some frown, and give some hope to others.
>
>
>
>                              Bill Hall
>
> http://s680.photobucket.com/albums/vv162/meteoritepictures/
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list




From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Wed Apr  8 13:23:12 2009
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 12:23:12 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Is this an ethical way to treat a meteorite?
In-Reply-To: <883a36d30904080950x4422c1e2h83fee24c994ca3a6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <883a36d30904080950x4422c1e2h83fee24c994ca3a6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e51421550904081023o338e6cb6x4067efd190682f44@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Bill and list!

Note - this is my opinion only.  Others' mileage may vary.

(yes, I took a deep breath before posting this.) ....... ;)

I think this treatment, used on specimens such as these is 100%
ethical and serves a purpose.

1) Campo has a massive TKW - there is no shortage of it.

2) Campo has little scientific interest at this point in history.

3) Campo is a good "commercial" meteorite - cheap, plentiful, and
available at low cost to collectors.  A big, cheap, shiny, Campo iron
is a defacto outreach tool - it generates interest and may encourage
new collectors.

Taking a rusty, unstable specimen and treating it in this way is a
measure of preservation - it serves a useful purpose, which is to halt
oxidation and restore the meteorite to an unoxidized state.

IMO, treatment of a meteorite becomes undesirable and unethical when
it changes the natural appearance or state of the specimen to look
artificial or obviously altered in some man-made way.  This includes,
but is not limited to, gold-plating slices for sale, some meteorite
jewelry, or fashioning trinkets or baubles that portray a "cheapened"
image of meteorites.  Aesthetics and ethics will always do a chaotic
dance around each other in regards to meteorites - there is a lot of
grey area and opinions will vary.  Personally, I really enjoy David
Deyarmin's meteorite spheres.  But I loathe these gold-plated iron
slices we are seeing on eBay now.  I realize this is a contradiction -
but IMO some end results are more tasteful and respectful than others.

Anything we do to a meteorite, as it's caretaker and handler must never -

1) take away a specimen or alter a specimen that has scientific value
or interest.

2) portray a negative or distasteful image of the specimen or
meteorites as a whole.

3) damage or alter a specimen of historical interest.

Best regards,

MikeG



On 4/8/09, Bill Hall <meteoritics at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello list,
>                I have an assortment of "OLD" Campos I purchased from a
> guy who lives in a very humid climate. When I received them, they were
> extremely rusty, and big flakes of rust falling off every time I would
> even look sideways at them. I debated with trying the galvanic
> cleansing, wire brushing, shot peening, acid baths, etc. etc. or just
> slicing them up, and grinding off the crusty edges. In fact I have
> done all of these things to test pieces, with less than miraculous
> results. It was, and still is my personal belief that if the rust can
> be removed ENTIRELY, and Either soak them in trans fluid, or carnuba
> spray wax, that they will stabilize. In fact it appears I may have
> done so, but with some interesting side affects. I know many meteorite
> enthusiasts are against changing the natural appearance of a
> meteorite, with good reason, However considering the circumstances and
> possible repercussions of doing nothing at all I have transformed an
> old Campo.
>
> This process removes ALL rust, leaves small splotches of shiny fusion
> crust ( at least it sure appears to be ) and provides  nice polish. It
> also appears to have stopped all further oxidation, and no sign of
> laurencite disease. I am not able to perform this process without the
> final polish, so I get stuck with a shiny meteorite. I have seen
> people go another step to remove the shine, I just kind of like it for
> now....
>
> And on another note: As Joe Dirt said to Kickin wing, "Well that might
> be your problem, its not what you like, its the consumer". I have
> shown rusty irons to people who scowl, and exclaim "why do you think
> its a meteorite!"  But when I show them a polished Iron their faces
> light up in utter amazement, and will often offer $1 gram or more for
> them...........Just something to consider.
>
> Please check out the photos on photo bucket, and let me know your
> honest opinions. If the consensus is that this is an EVIL thing to do
> to a meteorite I will surly take it into consideration. No doubt it
> will make some frown, and give some hope to others.
>
>
>
>                              Bill Hall
>
> http://s680.photobucket.com/albums/vv162/meteoritepictures/
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


-- 
.........................................................
Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA)
Member of the Meteoritical Society.
Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network.
Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com
..........................................................

From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Wed Apr  8 13:37:51 2009
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 12:37:51 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Is this an ethical way to treat a meteorite?
In-Reply-To: <48813.10.250.10.1.1239211200.squirrel@webmail.medscape.com>
References: <883a36d30904080950x4422c1e2h83fee24c994ca3a6@mail.gmail.com>
	<48813.10.250.10.1.1239211200.squirrel@webmail.medscape.com>
Message-ID: <e51421550904081037o54f210cex96d93bbe18c5caad@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Jim,

Good point about being up front with the treatment process involved.
>From a buyer's and collector's standpoint, I like to know what has
been artificially done (if anything) to a specimen prior to me seeing
it for the first time.  I tend to like a natural patina on irons as
well - I'm not big on the "stainless steel" look.  But if the
alternative is a flaky rust ball, then I pick the shiny one. ;)

A fusion-crusted, regmaglypted Sikhote or a Gibeon covered in desert
patina is a true thing of beauty. :)

Best regards,

MikeG


On 4/8/09, jbaxter112 at pol.net <jbaxter112 at pol.net> wrote:
> Hi Bill,
>
> I'm one of the subset of collectors who prefers the 'natural patina' on
> the surface of irons in general and I tend to go for the least treated
> specimens. That being said, some people clearly prefer the shiny treated
> irons, and if your process allows some kids at a show, say, to get an iron
> meteorite and get interested in the hobby, I'd say more power to you. I do
> think buyers should see or hear your clear explanation of the starting
> status of your material(maybe a demo 'before' and 'after' specimen or
> photo would be nice).
>
> How long have you observed these after cleaning? My mantra has always been
> that the gold standard for stability of irons is time on the shelf without
> rusting.
>
> Cheers,
> Jim Baxter
>
>> Hello list,
>>                I have an assortment of "OLD" Campos I purchased from a
>> guy who lives in a very humid climate. When I received them, they were
>> extremely rusty, and big flakes of rust falling off every time I would
>> even look sideways at them. I debated with trying the galvanic
>> cleansing, wire brushing, shot peening, acid baths, etc. etc. or just
>> slicing them up, and grinding off the crusty edges. In fact I have done
>> all of these things to test pieces, with less than miraculous results.
>> It was, and still is my personal belief that if the rust can be removed
>> ENTIRELY, and Either soak them in trans fluid, or carnuba spray wax,
>> that they will stabilize. In fact it appears I may have done so, but
>> with some interesting side affects. I know many meteorite enthusiasts
>> are against changing the natural appearance of a
>> meteorite, with good reason, However considering the circumstances and
>> possible repercussions of doing nothing at all I have transformed an old
>> Campo.
>>
>> This process removes ALL rust, leaves small splotches of shiny fusion
>> crust ( at least it sure appears to be ) and provides  nice polish. It
>> also appears to have stopped all further oxidation, and no sign of
>> laurencite disease. I am not able to perform this process without the
>> final polish, so I get stuck with a shiny meteorite. I have seen
>> people go another step to remove the shine, I just kind of like it for
>> now....
>>
>> And on another note: As Joe Dirt said to Kickin wing, "Well that might
>> be your problem, its not what you like, its the consumer". I have
>> shown rusty irons to people who scowl, and exclaim "why do you think its
>> a meteorite!"  But when I show them a polished Iron their faces light up
>> in utter amazement, and will often offer $1 gram or more for
>> them...........Just something to consider.
>>
>> Please check out the photos on photo bucket, and let me know your
>> honest opinions. If the consensus is that this is an EVIL thing to do to
>> a meteorite I will surly take it into consideration. No doubt it will
>> make some frown, and give some hope to others.
>>
>>
>>
>>                              Bill Hall
>>
>> http://s680.photobucket.com/albums/vv162/meteoritepictures/
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


-- 
.........................................................
Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA)
Member of the Meteoritical Society.
Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network.
Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com
..........................................................

From drtanuki at yahoo.com  Wed Apr  8 14:18:50 2009
From: drtanuki at yahoo.com (drtanuki)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 11:18:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] wanted for research  WEST, TX
Message-ID: <175315.54989.qm@web53207.mail.re2.yahoo.com>


Dear List,
  If anyone has small fragments of West from before the rain a researcher in Japan is looking for 0.5g~1.0 grams (one or two with fusion crust) for Noble gas analysis.  Reasonable prices please as his budget is not big.  Thank you.  Dirk Ross...Tokyo

From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Wed Apr  8 14:26:48 2009
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 13:26:48 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] (Proud Papa) - Lookey what I just scored!
Message-ID: <e51421550904081126u5ec7e6e6uedc910adfdd9bdc2@mail.gmail.com>

Hi List,

Look what I just scored -

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260385765969

Here is a partial list of the goodies in the lot -

Sudbury Impact Basin (Canada) - 682gr large shattercone
Wanapitei Lake (Sudbury) - 110gr endcut of suevite fallback breccia
Wells Creek Crater (Tennessee) - 194gr dolomitic shatter cone sample
Hummelin Impact Structure (Sweden) - 50gr slice of impact melt
Sudbury Impact Basin - 60gr slice of Black Onaping suevite
Ries Crater (Germany) - 62gr "flaedle" impact glass bomb
Rochechouart Crater (France) - 108gr slice of pseudotachylite
Gallaejaure Crater (Sweden) - 70gr endcut of impact melt
Decaturville Impact Structure (Missouri) - 136gr endcut of monomict
impact breccia
Lappaj?rvi Crater (Finland) - 74gr impact breccia
Rubielos de la C?rida Impact Basin (Spain) - 70gr endcut of polymict
fallback breccia
Duobblon Impact Structure (Sweden) - 122gr slice of impact melt

Notice the price - I think I should be arrested.  I have been wanting
to compile a collection of specimens related to various impact
structures, but I never expected to get lucky and score a nice starter
collection like this at a reasonable price. :)

I especially like the shatter cones, the Sudbury specimens, the Ries
specimen, and the colorful Rubielos de la C?rida breccia.

I am still looking to acquire a Chicxulub specimen and I will consider
a trade for one - after I receive my new goodies and sort through
them.  I will probably put 2 or 3 of these specimens on the trading
block for specimens from Chicxulub and Vredefort.

If the seller of this lot is a list member, I'd like to say thanks for
the deal and I can't wait to eagerly rip open the box like a kid at
Christmas.  I already have Riker boxes and display labels waiting. :)

Best regards,

MikeG

-- 
.........................................................
Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA)
Member of the Meteoritical Society.
Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network.
Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com
..........................................................

From daistiho at hotmail.com  Wed Apr  8 15:08:44 2009
From: daistiho at hotmail.com (tracy latimer)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 19:08:44 +0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] Is this an ethical way to treat a meteorite?
In-Reply-To: <883a36d30904080950x4422c1e2h83fee24c994ca3a6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <883a36d30904080950x4422c1e2h83fee24c994ca3a6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <COL111-W301004A00C236DF262B18CCA820@phx.gbl>


If the alternative is having the meteorite slowly become a pile of rust flakes indistinguishable from what collects at the bottom of a junkyard (except for Ni content), I say go for it!
 
Tracy Latimer

----------------------------------------
> Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 09:50:57 -0700
> From: meteoritics at gmail.com
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Is this an ethical way to treat a meteorite?
_________________________________________________________________
Rediscover Hotmail?: Get e-mail storage that grows with you. 
http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Storage1_042009

From mikewren at gilanet.com  Wed Apr  8 15:43:55 2009
From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 12:43:55 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: AUCTIONS ENDING IN A FEW HOURS...10% to 35%
	Off In My Ebay Store! Thanks! SALE ENDS TODAY!
References: <75DC27ED-DD9E-4203-BEC3-6A98BE175BF3@gilanet.com>
Message-ID: <9501B18D-8848-4F60-BA18-045D14F24830@gilanet.com>

>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Here is this week's Space Rocks!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> HIGHLIGHTS:
>>>>
>>>> RARE-A SLICE Of CARANCAS, Peru, H4-5, 2.17g, My Last Auction Slice!
>>>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? 
>>>> ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326745949
>>>>
>>>> (New) Olivine Diogenite-NWA 5480, 23.72 gram, A very Large End  
>>>> Cut and Worth A Lot!
>>>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? 
>>>> ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326751497
>>>>
>>>> Rare "Hammer Stone" DIEP RIVER, S.Africa,LTKW, One of The Rarest!
>>>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? 
>>>> ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326770735
>>>>
>>>> (NEW) NWA 4851, L6 With Shock Lines, 236 Gram, My Last 1/2 stone  
>>>> of This Beauty!
>>>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? 
>>>> ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326769256
>>>>
>>>> (New) WILBUR WASH, Az., L6, Slice, 44.98 gram, A Very Large Slice  
>>>> Being Offered!
>>>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? 
>>>> ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326759168
>>>>
>>>> CANYON DIABLO Individual, 268 gram, A Really Nice Specimen.
>>>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? 
>>>> ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326758383
>>>>
>>>> Superb New-Main Mass, NWA 5541, H6, 138 gram, MAIN MASS * MAIN MASS
>>>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? 
>>>> ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326760336
>>>>
>>>> Ungrouped Ataxite, DRONINO, Russia, 152 g, MY LAST SLICE!
>>>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? 
>>>> ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326757030
>>>>
>>>> Rare Mesosiderite- NWA 1878 , LTKW, 12.2 gram, A Real Cool Slice!
>>>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? 
>>>> ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326749654
>>>>
>>>> Very Rare-COOLAC, IAB Iron From Australia, ONLY ONE I HAVE!
>>>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? 
>>>> ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326757694
>>>>
>>>> Very Rare and Beautiful, NWA 801, CR2, 6.48g, My Last Large Slice!
>>>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? 
>>>> ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326747907
>>>>
>>>> NWA 5537, LL3.5, LTKW 10.32g, Take A Look At This One...
>>>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? 
>>>> ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326761350
>>>>
>>>> Rare NWA 2696, Howardite From Africa, 7.66g, Nice Slice...
>>>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? 
>>>> ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326746994
>>>>
>>>> Museum Specimen of FUKANG, Pallasite, 1664g, Actually A Great  
>>>> Deal For The Right Person.. Wholesale Price or Less!
>>>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? 
>>>> ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326372531
>>>>
>>>> Rare Carbonaceous CO3.6, NWA 1277, 0.94 gram...
>>>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? 
>>>> ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326750254
>>>>
>>>> An Early # NWA 103, L6 From Africa, 39.76g, My Last Specimen...
>>>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? 
>>>> ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326749027
>>>>
>>>> Rare NWA 2932, Mesosiderite, Nice! 8.13 gram, Really Nice Slice...
>>>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? 
>>>> ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326748461
>>>>
>>>> Seldom Available BRISCOE, Texas, L5, 3.22g, a simple classic
>>>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? 
>>>> ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326745978
>>>>
>>>> Nice H3 From Namibia, KORRA KORRABES, 17.99 g, nice specimen.
>>>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? 
>>>> ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326745968
>>>>
>>>> Rare Fall From Turkmenistan, DASHOGUZ, 0.46g, last one I have.
>>>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? 
>>>> ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326745965
>>>>
>>>> Rare Type, H3.5, WELLMAN (f), Texas, 4.03g, a very rare type.
>>>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? 
>>>> ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326745955
>>>>
>>>> (New) CV3, NWA 5546 From Africa, 44.32 gram, a Really GREAT and  
>>>> Large Specimen!
>>>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? 
>>>> ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326761993
>>>>
>>>> Classic GOLD BASIN, Arizona, L4, 79.72 gram, A Classic. Nice  
>>>> Individual!
>>>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? 
>>>> ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326766778
>>>>
>>>> Seldom Available TAHOKA, Texas, L5, 2.4 g, A nice rarity.
>>>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? 
>>>> ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326768078
>>>>
>>>> VYATKA, Russia, H4/5 Chondrite, 5.86g
>>>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? 
>>>> ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326767554
>>>>
>>>> Classic GOLD BASIN, Arizona, L4, 17.75 gram, nice slice!
>>>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? 
>>>> ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326766785
>>>>
>>>> Seldom Available SOUSLOVO, Russia, L4, 2.04g, hardly ever  
>>>> available.
>>>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? 
>>>> ViewItem&rd=1&item=200326767171
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for Looking and Best Wishes
>>>>
>>>> Michael Cottingham
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>


From ensoramanda at ntlworld.com  Wed Apr  8 19:07:49 2009
From: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com (ensoramanda at ntlworld.com)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 0:07:49 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] (Proud Papa) - Lookey what I just scored!
In-Reply-To: <e51421550904081126u5ec7e6e6uedc910adfdd9bdc2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090409000749.DU9J6.294562.root@web07-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com>

Hi Mike,

Yes this source is always worth keeping an eye on....I have quite an extensive collection acquired from him at very reasonable prices. Well documented too.

Graham Ensor, UK


---- Galactic Stone & Ironworks <meteoritemike at gmail.com> wrote: 
> Hi List,
> 
> Look what I just scored -
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260385765969
> 
> Here is a partial list of the goodies in the lot -
> 
> Sudbury Impact Basin (Canada) - 682gr large shattercone
> Wanapitei Lake (Sudbury) - 110gr endcut of suevite fallback breccia
> Wells Creek Crater (Tennessee) - 194gr dolomitic shatter cone sample
> Hummelin Impact Structure (Sweden) - 50gr slice of impact melt
> Sudbury Impact Basin - 60gr slice of Black Onaping suevite
> Ries Crater (Germany) - 62gr "flaedle" impact glass bomb
> Rochechouart Crater (France) - 108gr slice of pseudotachylite
> Gallaejaure Crater (Sweden) - 70gr endcut of impact melt
> Decaturville Impact Structure (Missouri) - 136gr endcut of monomict
> impact breccia
> Lappaj?rvi Crater (Finland) - 74gr impact breccia
> Rubielos de la C?rida Impact Basin (Spain) - 70gr endcut of polymict
> fallback breccia
> Duobblon Impact Structure (Sweden) - 122gr slice of impact melt
> 
> Notice the price - I think I should be arrested.  I have been wanting
> to compile a collection of specimens related to various impact
> structures, but I never expected to get lucky and score a nice starter
> collection like this at a reasonable price. :)
> 
> I especially like the shatter cones, the Sudbury specimens, the Ries
> specimen, and the colorful Rubielos de la C?rida breccia.
> 
> I am still looking to acquire a Chicxulub specimen and I will consider
> a trade for one - after I receive my new goodies and sort through
> them.  I will probably put 2 or 3 of these specimens on the trading
> block for specimens from Chicxulub and Vredefort.
> 
> If the seller of this lot is a list member, I'd like to say thanks for
> the deal and I can't wait to eagerly rip open the box like a kid at
> Christmas.  I already have Riker boxes and display labels waiting. :)
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> MikeG
> 
> -- 
> .........................................................
> Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA)
> Member of the Meteoritical Society.
> Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network.
> Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com
> ..........................................................
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


From paul at meteorite.com  Wed Apr  8 22:21:34 2009
From: paul at meteorite.com (Paul Harris)
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2009 19:21:34 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] April Issue of Meteorite-Times is now up
Message-ID: <49DD5BAE.80106@meteorite.com>

Dear List,

The April Issue of Meteorite-Times is now up.
http://www.meteorite-times.com/

If anyone is interested in being featured as our Meteorite Person of the 
Month please contact us off list.

Enjoy!

Paul and Jim


From STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com  Wed Apr  8 22:41:49 2009
From: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com (STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 22:41:49 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] April Issue of Meteorite-Times is now up
Message-ID: <d57.216d0a40.370eba6d@aol.com>

Hi,  Please take a look at this month's  Meteorite Time's Micro Vision on 
NWA 4905 Basaltic Eucrite.   Norbert  Classen helped me out a great deal by 
providing a photo of his slice and giving  a little information on this 
meteorite.

It worked out so well that I just  might talk him into helping me with some 
more upcoming articles.  Next  month we plan to work together on an 
D'Orbigny Angrite article.

I wanted  to thank Norbert and suggest that you all check out his planetary 
collection  site.  I had no idea it was so extensive.   

http://www.meteoris.de/luna/list.html

http://www.meteoris.de/mars/list.html

You  won't be disappointed and his photography is great!

Thanks,  Tom  Phillips

In a message dated 4/8/2009 8:26:22 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,  
paul at meteorite.com writes:
Dear List,

The April Issue of  Meteorite-Times is now up.
http://www.meteorite-times.com/

If anyone  is interested in being featured as our Meteorite Person of the 
Month please  contact us off list.

Enjoy!

Paul and  Jim

______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list  mailing  list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list   

**************New Deals on Dell Netbooks ? Now starting at $299 (A 
HREF=http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1219939010x1201342897/aol?redir=http:%2F
%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B213771626%3B35379597%3Bw)

From mojave_meteorites at cox.net  Wed Apr  8 23:59:38 2009
From: mojave_meteorites at cox.net (Rob Matson)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 20:59:38 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Double Bolide - linked event?
In-Reply-To: <49DC027D.7050007@meteoritesusa.com>
Message-ID: <GOEDJOCBMMEHLEFDHGMMMEBFDMAA.mojave_meteorites@cox.net>

Hi Mike,

> I ran across this article last night and I am curious about the event
> in question.  Were these 2 fireballs ever definitively linked?  And
> were any specimens ever recovered?
> http://fgms.home.att.net/fallstar.htm

My recollection is that some time later it was shown that the two events
could not have been related. No meteorites were ever recovered from either
bolide (par for the course).  --Rob


From bmason3 at comcast.net  Thu Apr  9 00:05:53 2009
From: bmason3 at comcast.net (Bill Mason)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 23:05:53 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Is this an ethical way to treat a meteorite?
In-Reply-To: <COL111-W301004A00C236DF262B18CCA820@phx.gbl>
References: <883a36d30904080950x4422c1e2h83fee24c994ca3a6@mail.gmail.com>
	<COL111-W301004A00C236DF262B18CCA820@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <001701c9b8c8$7a6be0b0$6f43a210$@net>

There are better ways to treat iron meteorites that will stop further
corrosion. STOP and think, what causes corrosion. Now remove the water from
the interior and treat it with Vapor phase corrosion inhibitors. Now sit
back and enjoy a rust free meteorite collection.

Bill Mason3  "rusty"

-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of tracy
latimer
Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 2:09 PM
To: meteoritics at gmail.com; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Is this an ethical way to treat a meteorite?


If the alternative is having the meteorite slowly become a pile of rust
flakes indistinguishable from what collects at the bottom of a junkyard
(except for Ni content), I say go for it!
 
Tracy Latimer

----------------------------------------
> Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 09:50:57 -0700
> From: meteoritics at gmail.com
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Is this an ethical way to treat a meteorite?
_________________________________________________________________
Rediscover HotmailR: Get e-mail storage that grows with you. 
http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Sto
rage1_042009
______________________________________________
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Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From tektites at googlemail.com  Thu Apr  9 01:23:33 2009
From: tektites at googlemail.com (Aubrey Whymark)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 13:23:33 +0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Velocity a meteorite hits the ground?
Message-ID: <c4604300904082223o37da0e05s43e386272907412c@mail.gmail.com>

Hi

I'm sure this is a very simple question. The other day I was caught in
a hail storm and was hit by 30-35mm diameter hail stones. One hit my
exposed hand and made a nasty bruise. At what speed were these hail
stones falling? By comparison, at roughly what speed do meteorites
fall assuming they have lost all of their cosmic velocity. I am
assuming it will be a little faster as meteorites are heavier and so
the drag will have less of an effect.

Thanks, Aubrey

From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net  Thu Apr  9 03:08:49 2009
From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 02:08:49 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Velocity a meteorite hits the ground?
References: <c4604300904082223o37da0e05s43e386272907412c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6ED83D67C80D467895FE7B8B1B8133F4@ATARIENGINE2>

Hi,

The speed at which an object reaches the ground
depends on the distance it has fallen, balanced
by the retardation of air resistance. A smooth, pointed
projectile falling from 42,000 feet will achieve a terminal
velocity of about 900 mph, while an irregular floppy
object like a man without a parachute, screaming and
flailing his arms and legs, would be hard pressed to
exceed 135 mph.

In the case of a meteorite, it "falls" from the stagnation
point which is the altittude at which it almost "stops,"
then starts to free-fall. The faster the meteoroid comes
in, the lower the stagnation point (if stagnation occurs
at all) and the shorter the drop. Smallish meteorites
(< 10 kg)  that are recovered after damaging things (the
famous "hammers") seem to have been moving at
approximately 250 mph +/- 100 mph.

Hailstones fall from the tops of clouds after having been
tossed up and down repeatedly until they accumulate
enough ice weight that the air currents cannot support
them any more. The nasty bruising ones are probably
in the 30 to 50 mph range. The heavy two-inch ones
are not any faster but are capable of doing real damage,
like breaking bones.

The role of air resistance is mathematically complex
but the principal factor is how much or little mass the
falling object possess for its resistive area. If someone
tosses a man down a 100-foot mine shaft to the rocky
floor, he is unlikely to survive. If someone tosses a cat
down the same 100-foot mine shaft, he might break
some small bones in the foot or lower leg or he might
not if he's a really fluffy cat. If someone tosses a mouse
down the 100-foot shaft, the mouse lands on his feet,
shakes his head dizzily, and says, "What the hell was
that all about?" although to our ears it sounds like
"Eeeek!"


Sterling K. Webb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Aubrey Whymark" <tektites at googlemail.com>
To: <Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 12:23 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Velocity a meteorite hits the ground?


> Hi
>
> I'm sure this is a very simple question. The other day I was caught in
> a hail storm and was hit by 30-35mm diameter hail stones. One hit my
> exposed hand and made a nasty bruise. At what speed were these hail
> stones falling? By comparison, at roughly what speed do meteorites
> fall assuming they have lost all of their cosmic velocity. I am
> assuming it will be a little faster as meteorites are heavier and so
> the drag will have less of an effect.
>
> Thanks, Aubrey
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 


From MeteorHntr at aol.com  Thu Apr  9 03:14:15 2009
From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 03:14:15 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Velocity a meteorite hits the ground?
Message-ID: <ca1.53307a9b.370efa47@aol.com>

In a message dated 4/9/2009 2:09:03 A.M. Central Daylight Time,  
sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net writes:

If someone tosses a mouse
down the 100-foot shaft, the mouse lands on  his feet,
shakes his head dizzily, and says, "What the hell was
that all  about?" although to our ears it sounds like
"Eeeek!"

******************
Sterling,

With an echo in the shaft, it would  sound more like 
"Eeeek...Eeeek...Eeeek..."

Steve
 
**************New Deals on Dell Netbooks ? Now starting at $299 (A 
HREF=http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220635155x1201407495/aol?redir=http:%2F
%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B213771973%3B35379628%3Bw)

From piper at xs4all.nl  Thu Apr  9 06:39:00 2009
From: piper at xs4all.nl (Piper R.W. Hollier)
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2009 12:39:00 +0200
Subject: [meteorite-list] Velocity a meteorite hits the ground?
In-Reply-To: <c4604300904082223o37da0e05s43e386272907412c@mail.gmail.com
 >
References: <c4604300904082223o37da0e05s43e386272907412c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200904091039.n39AdM5j000576@smtp-vbr1.xs4all.nl>

Hello Aubrey and list,

There is a good basic explanation of terminal velocity here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Terminal_velocity

A Java applet for do-it-yourself calculations can be downloaded here:

http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/termv.html

A table with calculated free fall velocities for hailstones (assuming 
a spherical form) can be found here:

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/Hbase/airfri2.html#c4

Real hailstones are not spherical and may not be solid ice, so "your 
results may vary," but the terminal velocities given are:

1.0 cm radius (2 cm dia.): 69.5 km/hr, 19.3 m/s, 43.2 mph
2.0 cm radius (4 cm dia.): 98.3 km/hr, 27.3 m/s, 61 mph

We can probably safely estimate that hailstones in the 3.0 to 3.5 cm 
range will come out somewhere in between these two values. One 
complicating factor is that the thunderstorms that produce hailstones 
can have very powerful downdrafts (10 m/s or more, if I am not mistaken).

All other factors being equal, the terminal velocity is proportional 
to the square root of the density of the material, so we can 
calculate how much faster a similarly sized meteorite would fall. 
Assuming a density of about 0.9 gm/cm3 for hailstones and 3.5 gm/cm3 
for ordinary chondrites (ignoring porosity effects in both cases), a 
typical stony meteorite (or is it still a "meteoroid" until it 
reaches the ground?) should free fall about twice as fast as a 
hailstone of a similar size. A useful discussion of stony meteorite 
density can be found here:
http://homepage.mac.com/brother_guy/.Public/Meteorite%20Densities.pdf

Assuming a typical density of iron meteorites of about 7.8 gm/cm3 
(depends on proportions of nickel and of non-metallic minerals), the 
terminal free fall velocity of an iron meteorite upon reaching the 
ground should be about three times that of a hailstone.

Best wishes to all,

Piper

At 07:23 09-04-09, you wrote:
>Hi
>
>I'm sure this is a very simple question. The other day I was caught in
>a hail storm and was hit by 30-35mm diameter hail stones. One hit my
>exposed hand and made a nasty bruise. At what speed were these hail
>stones falling? By comparison, at roughly what speed do meteorites
>fall assuming they have lost all of their cosmic velocity. I am
>assuming it will be a little faster as meteorites are heavier and so
>the drag will have less of an effect.
>
>Thanks, Aubrey
>______________________________________________
>http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>Meteorite-list mailing list
>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


From meteoritics at gmail.com  Thu Apr  9 08:03:09 2009
From: meteoritics at gmail.com (Bill Hall)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 05:03:09 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Is this an ethical way to treat a meteorite?
In-Reply-To: <001701c9b8c8$7a6be0b0$6f43a210$@net>
References: <883a36d30904080950x4422c1e2h83fee24c994ca3a6@mail.gmail.com>
	<COL111-W301004A00C236DF262B18CCA820@phx.gbl>
	<001701c9b8c8$7a6be0b0$6f43a210$@net>
Message-ID: <883a36d30904090503g99c2170u646f2042a9129f77@mail.gmail.com>

Ok,
      PLEASE NOTE: I'm not recommending this to anyone, it just an
experiment I tried with surprising results. Mainly the fact that it
appeared to have exposed areas of fusion crust, and stabilized the
specimen.

      What I did:    #1 remove largest flakes with very light wire
brushing, leaving most rust intact.

#2 soak in Rust-Mort for an hour, take out, dip in water and baking
soda mixture for 3 seconds to neutralize the acid, blow dry and let
sit overnight to dry.

Plain Phosphoric Acid Based rust treatments are used for two main reasons:

#1 It dissolves rust at a much faster rate than it dissolves iron, and
#2 It leaves a iron phosphate coating on the clean metal surface.
The phosphate in the acid converts ferric oxide (Fe2O3) into iron
phosphate (FePO4) and water in a faster simple exchange reaction:

Fe2O3 + 2 H3PO4 ? 2 FePO4 + 3 H2O

The water is removed when the part is cleaned but the iron phosphate
will adhere due to surface effects so that it does not wash away.

The hydrogen ions in the acid will attack the iron and convert it into
iron phosphate (FePO4) and hydrogen gas (the bubbles) in a slower
reduction-oxidation reaction:

Fe + H3PO4 ? FePO4 + H2?

Unless the metal is exposed to the acid  for a extended period and in
sufficient concentrations, the effect of the acid attacking the steel
will be negligible.

Some of the above information comes from Lee M. Daniels,  Laboratory
for Molecular Structure and Bonding, Texas A&M, daniels at tamu.edu
[email updated July, 2001]


Rust-Mort
SEM Products, Inc.
651 Michael Wylie Dr.
Charlotte, NC 28217
phone: 704-522-1006

#3 Remove the brownish green crust that is left in a sandblasting
cabinet, using very fine silica sand. Go easy, and use FINE sand or
you will be sorry. If you are careful you will be amazed to see
splotches of what appear to be black fusion crust appear. I'm not sure
about this, but it looks very convincing to me. The splotches seem to
be quite hard, and to have a glassy texture to them. Takes about 5
min. to do a fist sized meteorite.

#4 to get rid of the sand blast texture I used a giant 12 inch
industrial 3 phase  polisher ( A guy I know polishes stainless steel
auto trim, in the auto restoration business) these are used in chrome
or polishing shops. I used green stick rouge, but you could try brown
ow white as well. An 8" bench grinder with a polishing pad and green
rouge might work, but I recommend the big 12" industrial unit. It
takes about 10 min. to do a fist sized meteorite, depending on
regmaglypts.

#5 Optional and controversial: Use gun bluing to turn the meteorite
back to a more natural color.

#6 spray the meteorite with carnauba spray wax for automotive Paint applications

#7 Pray to you higher powers that be, and debate whether to tell
anyone what you have done!!!


let me know if you try it, and your results please,


       Bill Hall


On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 9:05 PM, Bill Mason <bmason3 at comcast.net> wrote:
> There are better ways to treat iron meteorites that will stop further
> corrosion. STOP and think, what causes corrosion. Now remove the water from
> the interior and treat it with Vapor phase corrosion inhibitors. Now sit
> back and enjoy a rust free meteorite collection.
>
> Bill Mason3 ?"rusty"
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of tracy
> latimer
> Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 2:09 PM
> To: meteoritics at gmail.com; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Is this an ethical way to treat a meteorite?
>
>
> If the alternative is having the meteorite slowly become a pile of rust
> flakes indistinguishable from what collects at the bottom of a junkyard
> (except for Ni content), I say go for it!
>
> Tracy Latimer
>
> ----------------------------------------
>> Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 09:50:57 -0700
>> From: meteoritics at gmail.com
>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Is this an ethical way to treat a meteorite?
> _________________________________________________________________
> Rediscover HotmailR: Get e-mail storage that grows with you.
> http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Sto
> rage1_042009
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>
>

From meteoriteshow at free.fr  Thu Apr  9 08:17:09 2009
From: meteoriteshow at free.fr (Meteoriteshow)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 12:17:09 -0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - ebay auctions ending on Saturday
Message-ID: <001601c9b90d$1b2d0b20$460aa8c0@T42>


Dear Listees,

First of all I wish you all a bit in advance a very happy Easter weekend!

I hope that you will still have time to browse on ebay as our auctions are 
ending on Saturday as usual and can be seen at:
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ50QQsassZmeteoriteshow

They include:

1- HaH254 L5-6 - 16.2g full slice: Very nice Partslice weighing 16.2g, 
dimensions 50x45x2mm, highly metamorphized with some remaining chondrules 
and nice metal flakes, FUSION CRUST ALL AROUND the edges. STILL AT $1.00 
STARTING PRICE!!!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330316485607

2- NWA 5611 (Prov.) - 11.2g Slice - EUCRITE: dimensions 
~61x53x1.7mm.Partially fusion crusted, typical of a polymict  eucrite. 
Shipped in a display case.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330316485653

3- NWA 859 (Taza) IRON UNGR. - 47.4g Oriented Individual,  dimensions 
~35x25x14mm. Beautiful shape.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330316485735

4- OUED EL HADJAR - 4.8g frag - WITNESSED FALL! Fragment weighing 4.8g, 
dimensions ~21x20x9mm.Partially fusion crusted, many tiny chondrules. STILL 
AT $1.00 STARTING PRICE!!!, NO BID YET!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330316485797

5- SAH 02500 L3 - 364.4g Crusted Fragment: dimensions: 72x62x50mm. A bit 
more than 50% of the surface is covered by a desert varnished fusion crust.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330316485862

6- SAHARAN OC #3342 - 728g Main Mass: dimensions: 87x80x63mm. One side was 
probably protected from the wind erosion and still displays a beautiful deep 
dark FUSION CRUST with SUPERB REGMAGLYPTS. The cut section shows a highly 
metamorphized structure, with few metal flakes and chondrule relics. This is 
probably an LL chondrite, which is confirmed by the low magnetic 
susceptibility of 4,33
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330316486012

Thank you very much for watching and best wishes to ALL BIDDERS!!!
Kind regards,

Frederic Beroud 




From mark.ford at ssl.gb.com  Thu Apr  9 08:20:19 2009
From: mark.ford at ssl.gb.com (Mark Ford)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 13:20:19 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] Is this an ethical way to treat a meteorite?
In-Reply-To: <883a36d30904090503g99c2170u646f2042a9129f77@mail.gmail.com>
References: <883a36d30904080950x4422c1e2h83fee24c994ca3a6@mail.gmail.com><COL111-W301004A00C236DF262B18CCA820@phx.gbl><001701c9b8c8$7a6be0b0$6f43a210$@net>
	<883a36d30904090503g99c2170u646f2042a9129f77@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <29A9DB45B84970458190D7D39BD42C4956C747@gamma.ssl.atw>



Thanks Bill, for the information, always useful to have other peoples take on how to treat rusting irons.

A note to those using or considering using chemical gun blues: be very very careful, it is really soo toxic as usually it contains Selenium dioxide, it will make you very ill. (Also even when the process is finished just handling the treated metal with bare fingers can be unhealthy..)

Best
Mark


-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Bill Hall
Sent: 09 April 2009 13:03
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Is this an ethical way to treat a meteorite?

Ok,
      PLEASE NOTE: I'm not recommending this to anyone, it just an
experiment I tried with surprising results. Mainly the fact that it
appeared to have exposed areas of fusion crust, and stabilized the
specimen.

      What I did:    #1 remove largest flakes with very light wire
brushing, leaving most rust intact.

#2 soak in Rust-Mort for an hour, take out, dip in water and baking
soda mixture for 3 seconds to neutralize the acid, blow dry and let
sit overnight to dry.

Plain Phosphoric Acid Based rust treatments are used for two main reasons:

#1 It dissolves rust at a much faster rate than it dissolves iron, and
#2 It leaves a iron phosphate coating on the clean metal surface.
The phosphate in the acid converts ferric oxide (Fe2O3) into iron
phosphate (FePO4) and water in a faster simple exchange reaction:

Fe2O3 + 2 H3PO4 ? 2 FePO4 + 3 H2O

The water is removed when the part is cleaned but the iron phosphate
will adhere due to surface effects so that it does not wash away.

The hydrogen ions in the acid will attack the iron and convert it into
iron phosphate (FePO4) and hydrogen gas (the bubbles) in a slower
reduction-oxidation reaction:

Fe + H3PO4 ? FePO4 + H2?

Unless the metal is exposed to the acid  for a extended period and in
sufficient concentrations, the effect of the acid attacking the steel
will be negligible.

Some of the above information comes from Lee M. Daniels,  Laboratory
for Molecular Structure and Bonding, Texas A&M, daniels at tamu.edu
[email updated July, 2001]


Rust-Mort
SEM Products, Inc.
651 Michael Wylie Dr.
Charlotte, NC 28217
phone: 704-522-1006

#3 Remove the brownish green crust that is left in a sandblasting
cabinet, using very fine silica sand. Go easy, and use FINE sand or
you will be sorry. If you are careful you will be amazed to see
splotches of what appear to be black fusion crust appear. I'm not sure
about this, but it looks very convincing to me. The splotches seem to
be quite hard, and to have a glassy texture to them. Takes about 5
min. to do a fist sized meteorite.

#4 to get rid of the sand blast texture I used a giant 12 inch
industrial 3 phase  polisher ( A guy I know polishes stainless steel
auto trim, in the auto restoration business) these are used in chrome
or polishing shops. I used green stick rouge, but you could try brown
ow white as well. An 8" bench grinder with a polishing pad and green
rouge might work, but I recommend the big 12" industrial unit. It
takes about 10 min. to do a fist sized meteorite, depending on
regmaglypts.

#5 Optional and controversial: Use gun bluing to turn the meteorite
back to a more natural color.

#6 spray the meteorite with carnauba spray wax for automotive Paint applications

#7 Pray to you higher powers that be, and debate whether to tell
anyone what you have done!!!


let me know if you try it, and your results please,


       Bill Hall


On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 9:05 PM, Bill Mason <bmason3 at comcast.net> wrote:
> There are better ways to treat iron meteorites that will stop further
> corrosion. STOP and think, what causes corrosion. Now remove the water from
> the interior and treat it with Vapor phase corrosion inhibitors. Now sit
> back and enjoy a rust free meteorite collection.
>
> Bill Mason3 ?"rusty"
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of tracy
> latimer
> Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 2:09 PM
> To: meteoritics at gmail.com; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Is this an ethical way to treat a meteorite?
>
>
> If the alternative is having the meteorite slowly become a pile of rust
> flakes indistinguishable from what collects at the bottom of a junkyard
> (except for Ni content), I say go for it!
>
> Tracy Latimer
>
> ----------------------------------------
>> Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 09:50:57 -0700
>> From: meteoritics at gmail.com
>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Is this an ethical way to treat a meteorite?
> _________________________________________________________________
> Rediscover HotmailR: Get e-mail storage that grows with you.
> http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Sto
> rage1_042009
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>
>
______________________________________________
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From meteoritics at gmail.com  Thu Apr  9 08:38:37 2009
From: meteoritics at gmail.com (Bill Hall)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 05:38:37 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list]  Is this an ethical way to treat a meteorite?
Message-ID: <883a36d30904090538r49012fd7ob97bc7d65e2a1555@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you Mark,
                           Good point! Disclaimer: Don't try this at
home! If you do try it please be CAREFUL!  Respirator, safety glasses,
good ventilation, apron, gloves, etc. etc.
                                          Bill

From tektites at googlemail.com  Thu Apr  9 10:41:12 2009
From: tektites at googlemail.com (Aubrey Whymark)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 22:41:12 +0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Velocity a meteorite hits the ground?
In-Reply-To: <200904091039.n39AdM5j000576@smtp-vbr1.xs4all.nl>
References: <c4604300904082223o37da0e05s43e386272907412c@mail.gmail.com>
	<200904091039.n39AdM5j000576@smtp-vbr1.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <c4604300904090741yce1492ete12e96b3d3e99368@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for all the replies!

Whilst I wasn't happy about being hit by hail stones, I'm pleased I
wasn't hit by a meteorite! Mind you, that would be a real hammer and
I'm sure the money would pay the medical expenses for a new hand!

Regards, Aubrey

From schoner at mybluelight.com  Thu Apr  9 11:32:07 2009
From: schoner at mybluelight.com (Steve Schoner)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 15:32:07 GMT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Neither Carbonado Nor Meteorite
Message-ID: <20090409.093207.22003.0@webmail17.dca.untd.com>

I can assure you and everyone that this is a real carbonado diamond.  I have dealt this this ebay diamond distributor before and his items are exactly what he claims them to be.

They are diamonds.

I bought a nice one from this dealer some time ago.   It is a specimen at  21 carets and he had another which I pulled the bit at which was an extremely rare round one with fusion crust on the exterior. 

Yes, what looked like fusion crust !  With flow lines !

I wish I had the $1,250 that he asked.   He held it for a month or so for me, but I could not come up with the money due to medical bills.   He re-listed it at $3,500.   It sold.  :-(  to my loss, and his gain  :-)  And to the person that bought it ;->

There are articles out now that deal with the possibility that these unique diamonds are the products of an asteroid impact 2.9 billion years ago right at the points in Africa and South America where the two land masses were joined 2.9 billion years ago.    These black diamonds are found no where else.

Dr. Haggarty has some articles on this:

http://www.bnl.gov/bnlweb/pubaf/pr/PR_display.asp?prID=07-X2

Research is continuing.  But the story Dr. Haggarty has revealed is a very interesting one.  

So the possibility of this being meteoric is up in the air, and the certainty that this is in fact a diamond is real.

A carbonado of this size is extremely rare.   I think the largest ever found is over 1 kg.

This carbonado must be the second largest, and if so the price asked is in the right ball park.

Steve Schoner
IMCA #4470



Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 12:59:57 -0400
From: "JoshuaTreeMuseum" <joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com>
Subject: [meteorite-list] Neither Carbonado Nor Meteorite
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Message-ID: <A1DF60D80FB8427B90BF63F04C55F1EB at ET>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
	reply-type=original

Yet another meteorwrong on eBay. I'm pretty sure it's not a diamond either. 
Carbonados are black for one thing.....A raw meteorite as opposed to a 
cooked one?

http://cgi.ebay.com/731CT-1-RAW-METEORITE-NATURAL-UNCUT-ROUGH-DIAMONDS_W0QQitemZ3003056869
88QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item300305686988&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkpar
ms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1309%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

Phil Whitmer 



____________________________________________________________
Save big on Stock Trading Fees. Click Now!
http://thirdpartyoffers.mybluelight.com/TGL2341/fc/BLSrjpdffmjYsq2DvP5YXOPPvWKCrRVM8fwRx4IkXjKO8mTlKrj5bqAYttm/

From marc.d.fries at jpl.nasa.gov  Thu Apr  9 12:14:20 2009
From: marc.d.fries at jpl.nasa.gov (Fries, Marc D)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 09:14:20 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Neither Carbonado Nor Meteorite
In-Reply-To: <20090409.093207.22003.0@webmail17.dca.untd.com>
Message-ID: <C6036CEC.75E6%Marc.D.Fries@jpl.nasa.gov>

A carbonado with fusion crust?  My skepticism meter is pegged.  If true it
would be of extraordinary scientific interest, but the problem is that
diamond doesn?t melt.  It evaporates.  Silicates are content to form what is
basically a liquid silicon oxide, but carbon oxides (CO, CO2) are gases, not
liquids.  Diamond doesn?t flow ? it goes poof.

I looked at those pictures, and there are little spallation flakes on one
side that remind me an awful lot of a carbonate rock.

Caveat emptor.

Cheers,
MDF


On 4/9/09 8:32 AM, "Steve Schoner" <schoner at mybluelight.com> wrote:

> I can assure you and everyone that this is a real carbonado diamond.  I have
> dealt this this ebay diamond distributor before and his items are exactly what
> he claims them to be.
> 
> They are diamonds.
> 
> I bought a nice one from this dealer some time ago.   It is a specimen at  21
> carets and he had another which I pulled the bit at which was an extremely
> rare round one with fusion crust on the exterior.
> 
> Yes, what looked like fusion crust !  With flow lines !
> 
> I wish I had the $1,250 that he asked.   He held it for a month or so for me,
> but I could not come up with the money due to medical bills.   He re-listed it
> at $3,500.   It sold.  :-(  to my loss, and his gain  :-)  And to the person
> that bought it ;->
> 
> There are articles out now that deal with the possibility that these unique
> diamonds are the products of an asteroid impact 2.9 billion years ago right at
> the points in Africa and South America where the two land masses were joined
> 2.9 billion years ago.    These black diamonds are found no where else.
> 
> Dr. Haggarty has some articles on this:
> 
> http://www.bnl.gov/bnlweb/pubaf/pr/PR_display.asp?prID=07-X2
> 
> Research is continuing.  But the story Dr. Haggarty has revealed is a very
> interesting one. 
> 
> So the possibility of this being meteoric is up in the air, and the certainty
> that this is in fact a diamond is real.
> 
> A carbonado of this size is extremely rare.   I think the largest ever found
> is over 1 kg.
> 
> This carbonado must be the second largest, and if so the price asked is in the
> right ball park.
> 
> Steve Schoner
> IMCA #4470
> 
> 
> 
> Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 12:59:57 -0400
> From: "JoshuaTreeMuseum" <joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Neither Carbonado Nor Meteorite
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Message-ID: <A1DF60D80FB8427B90BF63F04C55F1EB at ET>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>         reply-type=original
> 
> Yet another meteorwrong on eBay. I'm pretty sure it's not a diamond either.
> Carbonados are black for one thing.....A raw meteorite as opposed to a
> cooked one?
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/731CT-1-RAW-METEORITE-NATURAL-UNCUT-ROUGH-DIAMONDS_W0QQite
> mZ3003056869
> 88QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item300305686988&_trksid=p3286.c0
> .m14&_trkpar
> ms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1309%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C29
> 4%3A50
> 
> Phil Whitmer
> 
> 
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> Save big on Stock Trading Fees. Click Now!
> http://thirdpartyoffers.mybluelight.com/TGL2341/fc/BLSrjpdffmjYsq2DvP5YXOPPvWK
> CrRVM8fwRx4IkXjKO8mTlKrj5bqAYttm/
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


From STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com  Thu Apr  9 12:52:28 2009
From: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com (STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 12:52:28 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Neither Carbonado Nor Meteorite
Message-ID: <cb6.4bf1d46d.370f81cc@aol.com>

Those Carbonado's are cool.  Any chance  they were formed in space and some 
could show signs of entry that might resemble  at least the texture of 
crust.  If the shape and texture was there I can  see why it would look like 
fusion crust as they are already black and glassy  looking.

There is a big difference to a meteorite collector if they  are only 
impactacites or (drum roll) diamond  meteorites!!!

Tom

In a message dated 4/9/2009 10:15:50 A.M.  Mountain Daylight Time, 
marc.d.fries at jpl.nasa.gov writes:
A carbonado with  fusion crust?  My skepticism meter is pegged.  If true it
would be  of extraordinary scientific interest, but the problem is that
diamond doesn?t  melt.  It evaporates.  Silicates are content to form what  
is
basically a liquid silicon oxide, but carbon oxides (CO, CO2) are gases,  
not
liquids.  Diamond doesn?t flow &shy; it goes poof.

I looked  at those pictures, and there are little spallation flakes on one
side that  remind me an awful lot of a carbonate rock.

Caveat  emptor.

Cheers,
MDF


On 4/9/09 8:32 AM, "Steve Schoner"  <schoner at mybluelight.com> wrote:

> I can assure you and everyone  that this is a real carbonado diamond.  I 
have
> dealt this this ebay  diamond distributor before and his items are 
exactly what
> he claims them  to be.
> 
> They are diamonds.
> 
> I bought a nice one  from this dealer some time ago.   It is a specimen 
at  21
>  carets and he had another which I pulled the bit at which was an  
extremely
> rare round one with fusion crust on the exterior.
>  
> Yes, what looked like fusion crust !  With flow lines !
>  
> I wish I had the $1,250 that he asked.   He held it for a  month or so 
for me,
> but I could not come up with the money due to  medical bills.   He 
re-listed it
> at $3,500.   It  sold.  :-(  to my loss, and his gain  :-)  And to the  
person
> that bought it ;->
> 
> There are articles out now  that deal with the possibility that these 
unique
> diamonds are the  products of an asteroid impact 2.9 billion years ago 
right at
> the points  in Africa and South America where the two land masses were 
joined
> 2.9  billion years ago.    These black diamonds are found no where  else.
> 
> Dr. Haggarty has some articles on this:
> 
>  http://www.bnl.gov/bnlweb/pubaf/pr/PR_display.asp?prID=07-X2
> 
>  Research is continuing.  But the story Dr. Haggarty has revealed is a  
very
> interesting one. 
> 
> So the possibility of this being  meteoric is up in the air, and the 
certainty
> that this is in fact a  diamond is real.
> 
> A carbonado of this size is extremely  rare.   I think the largest ever 
found
> is over 1 kg.
>  
> This carbonado must be the second largest, and if so the price asked is  
in the
> right ball park.
> 
> Steve Schoner
> IMCA  #4470
> 
> 
> 
> Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 12:59:57  -0400
> From: "JoshuaTreeMuseum"  <joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com>
> Subject: [meteorite-list]  Neither Carbonado Nor Meteorite
> To:  <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Message-ID:  <A1DF60D80FB8427B90BF63F04C55F1EB at ET>
> Content-Type: text/plain;  format=flowed;  charset="iso-8859-1";
>          reply-type=original
> 
> Yet another meteorwrong on eBay. I'm pretty  sure it's not a diamond 
either.
> Carbonados are black for one thing.....A  raw meteorite as opposed to a
> cooked one?
> 
>  
http://cgi.ebay.com/731CT-1-RAW-METEORITE-NATURAL-UNCUT-ROUGH-DIAMONDS_W0QQite
>  mZ3003056869
>  
88QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item300305686988&_trksid=p3286.c0
>  .m14&_trkpar
>  
ms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1309%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C29
>  4%3A50
> 
> Phil Whitmer
> 
> 
> 
>  ____________________________________________________________
> Save big on  Stock Trading Fees. Click Now!
>  
http://thirdpartyoffers.mybluelight.com/TGL2341/fc/BLSrjpdffmjYsq2DvP5YXOPPvWK
>  CrRVM8fwRx4IkXjKO8mTlKrj5bqAYttm/
>  ______________________________________________
>  http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
>  Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>  http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>  

______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
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From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Thu Apr  9 14:24:09 2009
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2009 11:24:09 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Scientists Say Aliens and Humans May Have Similar
	DNA Patterns
Message-ID: <49DE3D49.5090504@meteoritesusa.com>

"...According to researchers at the McMaster University in Hamilton, 
Ontario, Canada, led by astrophysicist Ralph Pudritz, this idea was 
prompted by the fact that the way in which amino-acids were found to 
bond in meteorite samples that were collected from Earth seemed very 
similar to the way the building blocks of proteins tied to each other 
inside all living organisms on our planet. ?This may implicate a 
universal structure of the first genetic codes anywhere...?

Full Article: 
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Scientists-Say-Aliens-May-Have-Similar-DNA-Patterns-108920.shtml

-- 
Regards,
Eric Wichman
Meteorites USA
904-236-5394


From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com  Thu Apr  9 15:14:52 2009
From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (star_wars_collector at yahoo.com)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 12:14:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - NEW LL4 Meteorite for sale
Message-ID: <338071.78267.qm@web45610.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>


Hi to all, Hope everyone is having a good day!

I am offering a few slices of the new LL4 meteorite for sale that I have had tested and will be submitting to recieve a NWA #.

Its a great looking meteorite with a total weight of only 497g prior to cutting, and I will only be selling about 100 grams of the stone, the rest will stay in my collection.

Testing has been done by Anthony Love at Appalachian State and preliminary results show it to be an LL4 S3 W1.
Here are a few pics of slices available:
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/LL41595g.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/LL439g.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/LL4825g2.jpg


You can view the auctions currently on ebay (5 day listing) here:
http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/star_wars_coiiector

I will provide updates to all buyers once full information and test results are recieved.

Greg C.



      


From meteorites at online.nl  Thu Apr  9 17:06:33 2009
From: meteorites at online.nl (Jan Bartels)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 23:06:33 +0200
Subject: [meteorite-list] [AD] Claxton slice with breathtaking crust
Message-ID: <2759E574612C434391E778BCCF1EBC2B@laptop>

Dear Listoids,

If you want to see (or buy) our killer Claxton slice.....look here:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Claxton-Mailbox-Hammer-Meteorite-3-8-grams_W0QQitemZ170319880759QQihZ007QQcategoryZ3239QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

It has the best crust ever seen with lots of mailbox silver paint all over.

Have fun viewing an/or bidding.
(Sorry, no trades)

Greets,
Jan Bartels,
Holland
IMCA 9833


From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Thu Apr  9 18:22:36 2009
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 15:22:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] MRO HiRISE Images - April 8, 2009
Message-ID: <200904092222.PAA26855@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>



MARS RECONNAISSANCE ORBITER HIRISE IMAGES
April 8, 2009

Rough-Textured Circular Feature 
http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_012425_1455

Russell Crater Dunes: Volatile Activity Investigation
http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_011580_1255

Seasonal Haloes and Fractal Patterns
http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_011575_1105

Possible Megabreccia in Coprates Chasma Center
http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_011543_1665

Dunes and Seasonal Volatiles 
http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_011527_1325

Inca City Region and Monitoring of Araneiform Evolutions
http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_011491_0985

Rugged Crater Floor in Tyrrhena Terra
http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_011485_1555

All of the HiRISE images are archived here:

http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/

Information about the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter is 
online at http://www.nasa.gov/mro. The mission is 
managed by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, a division 
of the California Institute of Technology, for the NASA 
Science Mission Directorate, Washington, D.C. Lockheed 
Martin Space Systems, of Denver, is the prime contractor 
and built the spacecraft. HiRISE is operated by the 
University of Arizona. Ball Aerospace and Technologies 
Corp., of Boulder, Colo., built the HiRISE instrument.


From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Thu Apr  9 18:24:43 2009
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 15:24:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] STEREO Hunts for Remains of an Ancient Planet near
	Earth
Message-ID: <200904092224.PAA27767@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>


http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2009/09apr_theia.htm

STEREO Hunts for Remains of an Ancient Planet near Earth
NASA Science News
04.09.2009

April 9, 2009: NASA's twin STEREO probes are entering a mysterious
region of space to look for remains of an ancient planet which once
orbited the Sun not far from Earth. If they find anything, it could
solve a major puzzle--the origin of the Moon.

"The name of the planet is
Theia," says Mike Kaiser, STEREO project scientist at the Goddard Space
Flight Center. "It's a hypothetical world. We've never actually seen it,
but some researchers believe it existed 4.5 billion years ago - and that
it collided with Earth to form the Moon."

The "Theia hypothesis" is a brainchild of Princeton theorists Edward
Belbruno and Richard Gott. It starts with the popular Great Impact
theory of the Moon's origin. Many astronomers hold that in the formative
years of the solar system, a Mars-sized protoplanet crashed into Earth.
Debris from the collision, a mixture of material from both bodies, spun
out into Earth orbit and coalesced into the Moon. This scenario explains
many aspects of lunar geology including the size of the Moon's core and
the density and isotopic composition of moon rocks.

It's a good theory, but it leaves one awkward question unanswered: Where
did the enormous protoplanet come from?

Belbruno and Gott believe it came from a Sun-Earth Lagrange point.

Sun-Earth Lagrange points are regions of space where the pull of the Sun
and Earth combine to form a "gravitational well." The flotsam of space
tends to gather there much as water gathers at the bottom of a well on
Earth. 18th-century mathematician Josef Lagrange proved that there are
five such wells in the Sun-Earth system: L1, L2, L3, L4 and L5 located
as shown in the diagram below.

When the solar system was young, Lagrange points were populated mainly
by planetesimals, the asteroid-sized building blocks of planets.
Belbruno and Gott suggest that in one of the Lagrange points, L4 or L5,
the planetesimals assembled themselves into Theia, nicknamed after the
mythological Greek Titan who gave birth to the Moon goddess Selene.

"Their computer models show that Theia could have grown large enough to
produce the Moon if it formed in the L4 or L5 regions, where the balance
of forces allowed enough material to accumulate," says Kaiser. "Later,
Theia would have been nudged out of L4 or L5 by the increasing gravity
of other developing planets like Venus and sent on a collision course
with Earth."

If this idea is correct, Theia itself is long gone, but some of the
ancient planetesimals that failed to join Theia may still be lingering
at L4 or L5.

"The STEREO probes are entering these regions of space now," says
Kaiser. "This puts us in a good position to search for Theia's
asteroid-sized leftovers."

Just call them "Theiasteroids."

Astronomers have looked for Theiasteroids before using telescopes on
Earth, and found nothing, but their results only rule out
kilometer-sized objects. By actually entering L4 and L5, STEREO will be
able to hunt for much smaller bodies at relatively close range.

"The search actually began last month when both spacecraft rolled 180
degrees so that they could take a series of 2-hour exposures of the
general L4/L5 areas. In the first sets of images, amateur astronomers
found some known asteroids and new comet Itagaki was imaged just a
couple of days after the announcement of its discovery. No Theiasteroids
however."

Hunting for Theiasteroids is not STEREO's primary mission, he points
out. "STEREO is a solar observatory. The two probes are flanking the sun
on opposite sides to gain a 3D view of solar activity. We just happen to
be passing through the L4 and L5 Lagrange points en route. This is
purely bonus science."

"We might not see anything," he continues, "but if we discover lots of
asteroids around L4 or L5, it could lead to a mission to analyze the
composition of these asteroids in detail. If that mission discovers the
asteroids have the same composition as the Earth and Moon, it will
support Belbruno and Gott's version of the giant impact theory."

The search will continue for many months to come. Lagrange points are
not infinitesimal points in space; they are broad regions 50 million
kilometers wide. The STEREO probes are only in the outskirts now.
Closest approach to the bottoms of the gravitational wells comes in
Sept-Oct. 2009. "We have a lot of observing ahead of us," notes Kaiser.

Readers, you may be able to help. The STEREO team is inviting the public
to participate in the search by scrutinizing photos as they come in from
the spacecraft. If you see a dot of light moving with respect to the
stars, you may have found a Theiasteroid. Links to the data and further
instructions may be found at sungrazer.nrl.navy.mil
<http://sungrazer.nrl.navy.mil>.

Let the hunt begin!


From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Thu Apr  9 18:28:46 2009
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 15:28:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] DNA Analysis May Be Done On Mars For First Time
Message-ID: <200904092228.PAA28977@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>


http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn16933-first-dna-analysis-may-be-done-on-another-planet.html  

DNA analysis may be done on Mars for first time
by Ewen Callaway
New Scientist
09 April 2009

In August 1996, molecular biologist Gary Ruvkun was about to reveal
one of the biggest discoveries of his scientific career. His lab at
Harvard Medical School had recently found a gene called age-1 that
determines lifespan in roundworms. Their work offered the tantalising
possibility that tinkering with molecular pathways might extend the
lifespan of other organisms - and perhaps even humans.

Harvard sent out a press release and Ruvkun prepared for an onslaught of
media attention. But it never came. Two days before his team's paper
came out, scientists analysing a meteorite from Mars called ALH84001
made headlines worldwide. Then-US president Bill Clinton even got in on the
announcement <http://researchmagazine.uga.edu/summer2001/mars.html>.

"My grad student leans in the door and says, 'They've just announced
life on Mars,'" recalls Ruvkun. "That would really f--- us," Ruvkun
replied, thinking his student was joking.

Scientists have since raised serious doubts about the
existence of the purported fossilised microbes in the meteorite (see
image
<http://www.newscientist.com/articleimages/dn16933/1-first-dna-analysis-may-be-done-on-another-planet.html>).

But now, more than a decade after his work was overshadowed by news of
possible life on Mars, Ruvkun has joined the hunt to find it. Moreover,
he and his colleagues want to sequence its DNA.

Toehold for life

Today, Mars is a frozen, barren world. Ultraviolet light and energetic
space particles stream in through its thin atmosphere, sterilising any 
life - at least as we know it - on its bone-dry surface.

But recent research suggests life might find a niche just below the
surface, where liquid water could be widespread. The discovery of 
plumes of methane in the planet's atmosphere also hints at subsurface 
life, since some terrestrial microbes produce the gas.

Chemical signs of life can be ambiguous,
but Ruvkun and his team hope to find its unequivocal signature by
sending a DNA amplifier and sequencer to Mars in the next decade.
They're betting that any life on the Red Planet shares an evolutionary
heritage with life on Earth, and therefore contains a similar genetic
code - a requirement that other scientists say is too narrowly focused,
since Martian life may have evolved independently and therefore may have
very different chemistry.

"This is a pure jackpot scheme. You either discover the most important
thing for a long time, or you discover nothing," says Ruvkun, who in
2008 won the Lasker Award <http://www.laskerfoundation.org/>, an honour
shared by 75 scientists who later went on to nab a Nobel.

Interplanetary travel

Why would Martian life be similar to that on Earth? About 4 billion
years ago, when terrestrial life probably got its start, rocky bodies
were flying through the solar system
and slamming into the planets. These impacts threw pieces of the planets
into space, and some of these pieces landed on other planets as meteorites.

Ancient microbes might have hitched a ride to or from Mars on these
meteorites. While in space, the surfaces of these rocks would have been
sterilised by UV radiation and then singed to a crisp entering the
atmosphere. But a large enough rock could support life beneath its
surface, Ruvkun says.

And life originating or landing on Mars some 4 billion years ago may
well have found the environment there hospitable. The planet may have
boasted a thicker atmosphere and liquid water on its surface, possibly
in the form of oceans.

"Mars was probably fit for life," says Paul Davies,
a cosmologist and astrobiologist at Arizona
State University in Tempe, who is not involved in the sequencing project.

Early prototype

NASA has bought into the possibility that life may have once travelled
between the two planets and is supporting early development of the
sequencing project, called the Search for Extraterrestrial Genomes (SETG
<http://web.mit.edu/setg/>).

The agency has already provided just under $2 million in funding for the
project, says Christopher Carr, an engineer in Ruvkun's lab who is 
spearheading development of the device.

The latest prototype rests on a metal breadboard at one end of Carr's
lab bench, connected to a series of hydraulic pumps, electric wires and
cables. A more svelte, compact version of the instrument may one day
travel to Mars, perhaps on a mission planned for launch in 2018.
      
DNA glow

How would such an instrument work? Carr divides the project into four
distinct stages.

The first is preparing a sample from soil or ice that a future Mars
lander gathers from burrowing into the planet's surface.

After this sample is reconstituted in liquid and mixed with a dye that
fluoresces when it binds onto DNA, the device will funnel the sample
through a glass microfluidic chip filled with hundreds of tiny channels.
If one channel glows positive for DNA, its contents will move on to the
next stage - amplification.

It's no understatement to say that polymerase chain reaction (PCR)
revolutionised the practice of biology when it was invented in the
1980s. The technology allows researchers to create billions of identical
copies of a short stretch of DNA, simply by knowing the genetic sequence
of its two ends.

It's also astonishingly sensitive and simple, requiring little more than
a single 'template' DNA molecule, a heat source and some raw chemical
materials. "PCR is done in junior high school," Ruvkun told New
Scientist. "That's the definition of what you want to send to Mars."

Sequencing technologies

To determine whether DNA on Mars shares ancestry with terrestrial life,
his team will amplify a gene called the 16S ribosomal RNA subunit. It
encodes an RNA molecule that's part of the ribosome, a cell's crucial
protein factory.

Ruvkun's team isn't yet sure how they'll decode the amplified DNA. The
same sequencing technologies that might deliver a $1000 complete human
genome sequence in the next few years could also read much shorter 
stretches of DNA on Mars. But simpler and slower gene-sequencing 
technologies might also do the job, Carr says.

If the experiment isolates, amplifies and sequences Martian DNA, the
next step will be to determine how the sequence relates to Earth life
and to rule out the possibility of terrestrial contamination, a major
concern with PCR.
      
Contamination test

If Earth and Mars exchanged life 3-4 billion years ago, Mars life will
stand out like an island species that has been isolated from the
mainland. Ruvkun's team will make the call by comparing any 16S
sequences they find on Mars with those known on Earth.

Because of its essential role in building cells' ribosomes, the gene has
barely mutated over the past 4 billion or so years, allowing geneticists
to gauge evolutionary relationships between distantly related organisms.

If the Martian DNA is distantly related to Earth life, its 16S sequence
should plant it near the base of Earth's tree of life. On the other
hand, a sequence that looks closely related to earthly organisms, such
as E. coli or Salmonella bacteria, for instance, would be evidence for
contamination.

Field tests

Team members are wrangling for a spot on a NASA Mars mission tentatively
scheduled for liftoff in 2018. They plan to begin field-testing their
device in Mars-like conditions on Earth, such as the Copahue Volcano
in Argentina or Antarctica's dry valleys, in the next three years.

But the researchers admit they are a long way, not to mention tens of
millions of dollars in funding, from launch. "Our goal is to make this
instrument small enough that they can't say no to put it on a lander,"
Ruvkun says.

Others are taking SETG seriously, too. NASA has renewed the project's
initial grant, and MIT planetary scientist Maria Zuber has taken a
leading role in the team. "Maria is totally in the loop at NASA, and it
lends [SETG] a level of credibility that could never come from us,"
Ruvkun says.

First things first

Norman Pace, a microbiologist at the
University of Colorado in Boulder who studies life in extreme places on
Earth, is more sceptical. He says sequencing DNA on Mars is
"technologically feasible", but he thinks DNA searches should come after
scientists discover other signatures for life on Mars.

"If you have DNA from Mars, it's worth sequencing," Pace says. "But
having DNA from Mars is about as practical at this stage of the game as
having DNA from that planet around Alpha Centauri."

Paul Davies worries that searching for DNA opens too narrow a window to
the past. "If what you're hoping to do is look for traces of past life
on Mars, then DNA isn't a very good biomarker - it's not going to
survive for very long."

Indeed, SETG could only detect existing or recently extinct life on
Mars. Carr puts the outer boundary under 1 million years, though it
could be far less.

Generalist approach

Davies argues that searches for extraterrestrial life should instead
focus on more general features of life. All amino acids that make up
biological proteins, for instance, display a left-handed orientation,
or chirality. "That, to me, is the most urgent thing," he told New
Scientist. "You look for chirality, then mess around with DNA."

An instrument to search for signs of chirality, called Urey, may 
launch on Europe's ExoMars lander, which is now set to launch in 2016. 
Researchers will try to use its data to determine whether any chirality 
found is from life.

Would Urey be able to test, like SETG, whether any life on Mars has a
common origin with that on Earth? Possibly, says instrument team leader
Jeffrey Bada of the University of California, San Diego. "If the
structural variety of amino acids was identical to that on Earth and
they were also left-handed, we might well be related," Bada told New
Scientist.

Definitive test

However, Ruvkun and his colleagues brush aside such concerns, saying
that Martian DNA detection will go hand-in-hand with efforts to find
more generic chemical signatures of life. They also contend that their
experiment would provide a definitive test of the hypothesis that Earth
and Mars exchanged life that still lives on Mars.

And then there's the simple "wow" factor of sending a DNA sequencer to
another planet to search for life.

Michael Finney, a biotechnology entrepreneur on the team who conceived 
of SETG along with Ruvkun, says one engineer he approached saw an added 
bonus to joining their search for Martian genes.

"He had a reaction a lot of people had: 'I would love to work on this
project because it would give me so much credibility with my
eight-year-old,'" Finney says. "A lot of people on the whole project are
letting their inner eight-year-olds speak."


From schoner at mybluelight.com  Thu Apr  9 19:52:59 2009
From: schoner at mybluelight.com (Steve Schoner)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 23:52:59 GMT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Neither Carbonado Nor Meteorite
Message-ID: <20090409.175259.21422.0@webmail05.dca.untd.com>

Fred,

I can only say that the lines and surface "looked" like fusion crust from the photos that I received from ebay's seller, "aaaroughy".   I communicated with Dr. Haggarty regarding this and he even mentioned to me that there are exceedingly rare carbonado examples that have traces of what "appears" to be a "fusion" crust.

But as you noted it is not, nor can it be a "fusion crust" in the strict sense, but maybe a relic of the environment in which these unique diamonds were formed.

As for your observation regarding carbonate rocks on this very large carbonado, that is a very good observation.

It just so happens is that these carbonados are found in the carbonate beds of both Africa, and South America that date back over 2 billion years.

These diamonds, unlike the terrestrial octahedral crystalline ones, are very porous.   In order to conduct his studies, Dr. Haggard had to dissolve the carbonates leaving only the sponge like carbonado remaining.    There is no other diamond on earth that has this structure, nor is there any earthy mechanism that can explain the carbonado structure.

I think, though I am not sure, is that the crystalline structure is unique to meteorite diamonds.   And if Haggarty's observations of the isotopic content is correct, which I am convinced that it is... Then these are extraterrestrial.

Just look at the nano-diamonds found in many carbonaceous meteorites.    I could very well imagine that a huge asteroid had not only nano-diamonds, but larger ones as well, composed of millions of nano-diamonds brought together into a large carbonado.

And these diamonds are tough, harder and more enduring than the "normal" terrestrial ones.   As I mentioned previously, they are even used to cut and polish "normal" diamonds.   The surface is so hard that they could be washed in gravels for millions of years and not even have a scratch.   But the angular ones were made that way by impact, either from the Haggarty's proposed asteroid impactor, or by later actions in the ancient steam beds that deposited them in what would eventually become carbonate rock.   

So that said, there is an obvious difference between carbonado and "nomal" diamonds.   It will be very interesting to see what other details come out of Dr. Haggarty's work.

The question is out there, meteoriic or not...

But believe me, this ebay seller is offering the real thing when it comes to diamonds.   He is a major dealer of diamonds, carbonado's and "nomal" ones, too.

And what he is offering in this action is a real 731 ct. carbonado diamond... Among one of the largest found.  

Steve Schoner
IMCA #4470

Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 12:59:57 -0400
From: "JoshuaTreeMuseum" <joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com>
Subject: [meteorite-list] Neither Carbonado Nor Meteorite
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Message-ID: <A1DF60D80FB8427B90BF63F04C55F1EB at ET>
[meteorite-list] Neither Carbonado Nor Meteorite
Fries, Marc D marc.d.fries at jpl.nasa.gov
Thu Apr 9 12:14:20 EDT 2009

    * Previous message: [meteorite-list] Neither Carbonado Nor Meteorite
    * Next message: [meteorite-list] Neither Carbonado Nor Meteorite
    * Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]

A carbonado with fusion crust? My skepticism meter is pegged. If true it
would be of extraordinary scientific interest, but the problem is that
diamond doesn?t melt. It evaporates. Silicates are content to form what is
basically a liquid silicon oxide, but carbon oxides (CO, CO2) are gases, not
liquids. Diamond doesn?t flow ? it goes poof.

I looked at those pictures, and there are little spallation flakes on one
side that remind me an awful lot of a carbonate rock.

Caveat emptor.

Cheers,
MDF 

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Steve Schoner" <schoner at mybluelight.com>
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: Neither Carbonado Nor Meteorite
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 15:32:07 GMT

I can assure you and everyone that this is a real carbonado diamond.  I have dealt this this ebay diamond distributor before and his items are exactly what he claims them to be.

They are diamonds.

I bought a nice one from this dealer some time ago.   It is a specimen at  21 carets and he had another which I pulled the bit at which was an extremely rare round one with fusion crust on the exterior. 

Yes, what looked like fusion crust !  With flow lines !

I wish I had the $1,250 that he asked.   He held it for a month or so for me, but I could not come up with the money due to medical bills.   He re-listed it at $3,500.   It sold.  :-(  to my loss, and his gain  :-)  And to the person that bought it ;->

There are articles out now that deal with the possibility that these unique diamonds are the products of an asteroid impact 2.9 billion years ago right at the points in Africa and South America where the two land masses were joined 2.9 billion years ago.    These black diamonds are found no where else.

Dr. Haggarty has some articles on this:

http://www.bnl.gov/bnlweb/pubaf/pr/PR_display.asp?prID=07-X2

Research is continuing.  But the story Dr. Haggarty has revealed is a very interesting one.  

So the possibility of this being meteoric is up in the air, and the certainty that this is in fact a diamond is real.

A carbonado of this size is extremely rare.   I think the largest ever found is over 1 kg.

This carbonado must be the second largest, and if so the price asked is in the right ball park.

Steve Schoner
IMCA #4470




Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
	reply-type=original

Yet another meteorwrong on eBay. I'm pretty sure it's not a diamond either. 
Carbonados are black for one thing.....A raw meteorite as opposed to a 
cooked one?

http://cgi.ebay.com/731CT-1-RAW-METEORITE-NATURAL-UNCUT-ROUGH-DIAMONDS_W0QQitemZ3003056869
88QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item300305686988&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkpar
ms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1309%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

Phi

____________________________________________________________
Find your soul mate. Great dating for Christian singles. Click Now!
http://thirdpartyoffers.mybluelight.com/TGL2341/fc/BLSrjpdl3yGxh1vktgHB9RDTLlkAPYtuFe4rW5ZKMRD418LAKlAXXRXKELG/

From schoner at mybluelight.com  Thu Apr  9 20:20:45 2009
From: schoner at mybluelight.com (Steve Schoner)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 00:20:45 GMT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Neither Carbonado Nor Meteorite
Message-ID: <20090409.182045.21422.1@webmail05.dca.untd.com>

Ooops,

"Marc" (MDF), not "Fred"  my mistake--   Left side of my damaged brain did it.

Steve

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Steve Schoner" <schoner at mybluelight.com>
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: Neither Carbonado Nor Meteorite
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 23:52:59 GMT

Fred,

I can only say that the lines and surface "looked" like fusion crust from the photos that I received from ebay's seller, "aaaroughy".   I communicated with Dr. Haggarty regarding this and he even mentioned to me that there are exceedingly rare carbonado examples that have traces of what "appears" to be a "fusion" crust.

But as you noted it is not, nor can it be a "fusion crust" in the strict sense, but maybe a relic of the environment in which these unique diamonds were formed.

As for your observation regarding carbonate rocks on this very large carbonado, that is a very good observation.

It just so happens is that these carbonados are found in the carbonate beds of both Africa, and South America that date back over 2 billion years.

These diamonds, unlike the terrestrial octahedral crystalline ones, are very porous.   In order to conduct his studies, Dr. Haggard had to dissolve the carbonates leaving only the sponge like carbonado remaining.    There is no other diamond on earth that has this structure, nor is there any earthy mechanism that can explain the carbonado structure.

I think, though I am not sure, is that the crystalline structure is unique to meteorite diamonds.   And if Haggarty's observations of the isotopic content is correct, which I am convinced that it is... Then these are extraterrestrial.

Just look at the nano-diamonds found in many carbonaceous meteorites.    I could very well imagine that a huge asteroid had not only nano-diamonds, but larger ones as well, composed of millions of nano-diamonds brought together into a large carbonado.

And these diamonds are tough, harder and more enduring than the "normal" terrestrial ones.   As I mentioned previously, they are even used to cut and polish "normal" diamonds.   The surface is so hard that they could be washed in gravels for millions of years and not even have a scratch.   But the angular ones were made that way by impact, either from the Haggarty's proposed asteroid impactor, or by later actions in the ancient steam beds that deposited them in what would eventually become carbonate rock.   

So that said, there is an obvious difference between carbonado and "nomal" diamonds.   It will be very interesting to see what other details come out of Dr. Haggarty's work.

The question is out there, meteoriic or not...

But believe me, this ebay seller is offering the real thing when it comes to diamonds.   He is a major dealer of diamonds, carbonado's and "nomal" ones, too.

And what he is offering in this action is a real 731 ct. carbonado diamond... Among one of the largest found.  

Steve Schoner
IMCA #4470

Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 12:59:57 -0400
From: "JoshuaTreeMuseum" <joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com>
Subject: [meteorite-list] Neither Carbonado Nor Meteorite
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Message-ID: <A1DF60D80FB8427B90BF63F04C55F1EB at ET>
[meteorite-list] Neither Carbonado Nor Meteorite
Fries, Marc D marc.d.fries at jpl.nasa.gov
Thu Apr 9 12:14:20 EDT 2009

    * Previous message: [meteorite-list] Neither Carbonado Nor Meteorite
    * Next message: [meteorite-list] Neither Carbonado Nor Meteorite
    * Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]

A carbonado with fusion crust? My skepticism meter is pegged. If true it
would be of extraordinary scientific interest, but the problem is that
diamond doesn?t melt. It evaporates. Silicates are content to form what is
basically a liquid silicon oxide, but carbon oxides (CO, CO2) are gases, not
liquids. Diamond doesn?t flow ? it goes poof.

I looked at those pictures, and there are little spallation flakes on one
side that remind me an awful lot of a carbonate rock.

Caveat emptor.

Cheers,
MDF 

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Steve Schoner" <schoner at mybluelight.com>
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: Neither Carbonado Nor Meteorite
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 15:32:07 GMT

I can assure you and everyone that this is a real carbonado diamond.  I have dealt this this ebay diamond distributor before and his items are exactly what he claims them to be.

They are diamonds.

I bought a nice one from this dealer some time ago.   It is a specimen at  21 carets and he had another which I pulled the bit at which was an extremely rare round one with fusion crust on the exterior. 

Yes, what looked like fusion crust !  With flow lines !

I wish I had the $1,250 that he asked.   He held it for a month or so for me, but I could not come up with the money due to medical bills.   He re-listed it at $3,500.   It sold.  :-(  to my loss, and his gain  :-)  And to the person that bought it ;->

There are articles out now that deal with the possibility that these unique diamonds are the products of an asteroid impact 2.9 billion years ago right at the points in Africa and South America where the two land masses were joined 2.9 billion years ago.    These black diamonds are found no where else.

Dr. Haggarty has some articles on this:

http://www.bnl.gov/bnlweb/pubaf/pr/PR_display.asp?prID=07-X2

Research is continuing.  But the story Dr. Haggarty has revealed is a very interesting one.  

So the possibility of this being meteoric is up in the air, and the certainty that this is in fact a diamond is real.

A carbonado of this size is extremely rare.   I think the largest ever found is over 1 kg.

This carbonado must be the second largest, and if so the price asked is in the right ball park.

Steve Schoner
IMCA #4470




Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
	reply-type=original

Yet another meteorwrong on eBay. I'm pretty sure it's not a diamond either. 
Carbonados are black for one thing.....A raw meteorite as opposed to a 
cooked one?

http://cgi.ebay.com/731CT-1-RAW-METEORITE-NATURAL-UNCUT-ROUGH-DIAMONDS_W0QQitemZ3003056869
88QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item300305686988&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkpar
ms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1309%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

Phi

____________________________________________________________
Click here to become a professional counselor in less time than you think.
http://thirdpartyoffers.mybluelight.com/TGL2341/fc/BLSrjpdo1hBHebzF5KHoZJ5Qvev7ujECGgD5kDdirJ22YfE661cxUK5NURq/

From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com  Thu Apr  9 23:36:28 2009
From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 23:36:28 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - April 10,
	2009
Message-ID: <c27.5b05814d.371018bc@aol.com>

http://www.rocksfromspace.org/April_10_2009.html





__________________________   

**************New Deals on Dell Netbooks ? Now starting at $299 (A 
HREF=http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220635155x1201407495/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fa
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From sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com  Fri Apr 10 06:53:57 2009
From: sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com (Steve Dunklee)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 03:53:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Black diamonds
Message-ID: <183923.7753.qm@web33204.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


If you ever have the chance to travel to  Crater of diamonds state park in Arkansas they have a nice display of diamonds mined from the volcanic vent to include black cabanado diamonds. If they are meteoric ,the meteorite hit somwhere in  China, passed all the way  thru the earth to erupt here in a volcano. Yea right lol!

Have a nice day

Steve


      

From mpg444 at yahoo.com  Fri Apr 10 09:53:38 2009
From: mpg444 at yahoo.com (Mike Groetz)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 06:53:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Earthquake turns out to be an exploding meteorite
Message-ID: <858654.62431.qm@web33001.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


http://austriantimes.at/index.php?id=12446

Earthquake turns out to be an exploding meteorite

Hundreds of Carinthians were left terrified thinking they had been hit by an earthquake after a meteorite exploded over their homes early yesterday (Thurs).

Locals said the meteorite exploded at about 3am with what sounded like an enormous thunder clap followed by rumbling and howling.

Hans Handler from Velden told the newspaper ?sterreich yesterday: "I though it was either an earthquake or a crashing airplane."

Experts at an observatory at Gerlitzen near Villach said the meteorite had reached a temperature of more than 1,000 degrees Celsius after entering the earth?s atmosphere. They added the bang it had caused had been heard over a wide area of the province.

Hermann Mucke, the long-time chief of an astronomical office in Vienna, told the newspaper: "The meteorite produced a glow of an electric nature. Most such meteorites are detected at altitudes ranging from 80 to 120 kilometres."

Mucke added, however, that it would be impossible to prove that the phenomenon had been a meteorite. He said there was only one so-called "fireball" camera in Austria, which was located in the Waldviertel far from Carinthia, and so there were no photos of what had lit up the Carinthian sky yesterday morning. 



      

From schoner at mybluelight.com  Fri Apr 10 10:26:20 2009
From: schoner at mybluelight.com (Steve Schoner)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 14:26:20 GMT
Subject: [meteorite-list]  Black diamonds
Message-ID: <20090410.082620.6926.0@webmail09.dca.untd.com>

Steve, and all,

There are in fact terrestrial "black" diamonds.   A these are like all the "normal" diamonds with an octahedral crystal structure.

Just because they are termed "black" does not make them carbonados.  In fact most carbonado diamonds are not black.   They can be brown, sandy brown, green, dark green and gray, and all the way to pitch black. 

But what distinguishes them from all normal octahedral crystal black diamonds is their porous structure,   A clear indication that they formed in a very low pressure environment, such as in space as Dr. Haggarty proposed with regards to his research. 

It is interesting to note the fact that they are found only on the shores of two continents.   And if you put the two land masses of Africa and South America together the spots coincide.   

So that said, just because a diamond is black does not make it a "carbonado."

If one puts a normal octahedral black diamond against a true carbonado, the difference is very apparent even without magnification.

The question remains.   Where did these carbonados come from, if no mechanism for their formation can be found on earth?

Steve Schoner
IMCA #4470


[meteorite-list] Black diamonds
Steve Dunklee sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com
Fri Apr 10 06:53:57 EDT 2009

    * Previous message: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - April 10, 2009
    * Next message: [meteorite-list] Earthquake turns out to be an exploding meteorite
    * Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]


If you ever have the chance to travel to Crater of diamonds state park in Arkansas they have a nice display of diamonds mined from the volcanic vent to include black cabanado diamonds. If they are meteoric ,the meteorite hit somwhere in China, passed all the way thru the earth to erupt here in a volcano. Yea right lol!

Have a nice day

Steve 

____________________________________________________________
Free information on the best online trading options. Click here!
http://thirdpartyoffers.mybluelight.com/TGL2341/fc/BLSrjpdffTiXHDRlAVxABNz0hMv5QdF0ca9FCeweuyFiMy3tOLfY0mWf67m/

From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Fri Apr 10 10:44:03 2009
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 09:44:03 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Etched Gibeon Small Cuts are everywhere!
Message-ID: <e51421550904100744m67008c8bn2cdf49a2bb3dcb4e@mail.gmail.com>

Was someone selling these little Gibeon slices and cuts by the metric
ton at Tucson this year?

It seems that every seller on eBay is selling singles, lots, and
pendants made from small etched Gibeon slices - predominately
triangles.

If I was already set on Gibeon, I'd be tempted to buy some of the
non-pendant pieces.  Prices are ranging from one dollar per gram to
over two dollars per gram.

Just an observation as I take my morning eBay meteorite stroll.......

Best regards,

MikeG


-- 
.........................................................
Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA)
Member of the Meteoritical Society.
Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network.
Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com
..........................................................

From schoner at mybluelight.com  Fri Apr 10 11:00:38 2009
From: schoner at mybluelight.com (Steve Schoner)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 15:00:38 GMT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Black Diamonds: A interesting PBS NOVA article
Message-ID: <20090410.090038.5203.0@webmail07.dca.untd.com>

Here is a very interesting PBS article on carbonados.  

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/diamond/sky2.html

Steve Schoner
IMCA #4470.

P.S.  I have a 21.55 ct carbonado from Brazil, and it is one of the most interesting pieces in my collection.   It is amazing what it feels like to hold it.  It is waxy to the touch, and feels cold to the touch.   This latter property is due to the fact that all diamonds conduct heat as readily as pure copper.    But under the microscope the porous structure that is the prime characteristic of a true carbonado is very obvious.    Not all black diamonds are carbonados, though the term "carbonado" is used loosely to describe low grade diamonds in the diamond trade.


____________________________________________________________
Click here for free information on how to reduce your debt by filing for bankruptcy.
http://thirdpartyoffers.mybluelight.com/TGL2341/fc/BLSrjpdl0IoTK1URErUnkyUHaViM5qtgOUmDfKqXxOtSe1N9XftiVS0OsGM/

From schoner at mybluelight.com  Fri Apr 10 11:30:33 2009
From: schoner at mybluelight.com (Steve Schoner)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 15:30:33 GMT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Earthquake turns out to be an exploding meteorite
Message-ID: <20090410.093033.5203.1@webmail07.dca.untd.com>

Gosh almighty, we have been having what seems to be a large number of fireballs lately.  

I wonder if a "big one" is not headed our way.

And this brings to my mind a terrible nightmare I had when I was 4 years old, in 1955.   I was living in Alamogordo at the time, and  I asked my Dad, who was a rocket technician at White Sands, about the craters on the moon.   He told me that they were most likely caused by meteor impacts.   Huge ones.

And I asked him why none on earth then.   He told me that there were some, Meteor Crater as just a small one, but if more craters were here they were probably eroded away.

That night, I had a terrible dream that a big one hit, and the night sky turned bright, then red, and in it my Dad ran to the front door, opened it up and said, "Oh my God, it is the end of the world!"

And I woke up screaming.

I never forgot that dream and the conversation that spawned it.

So even today, I look up to the sky, and read these reports with trepidation.

One would think that I would shun meteorites and refrain from collecting them.  But my curiosity is too great for that.

But the fear remains, that a "big one" might be headed our way...

Steve Schoner
IMCA #4470


[meteorite-list] Earthquake turns out to be an exploding meteorite
Mike Groetz mpg444 at yahoo.com
Fri Apr 10 09:53:38 EDT 2009

    * Previous message: [meteorite-list] Black diamonds
    * Next message: [meteorite-list] Black diamonds
    * Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]


http://austriantimes.at/index.php?id=12446

Earthquake turns out to be an exploding meteorite

Hundreds of Carinthians were left terrified thinking they had been hit by an earthquake after a meteorite exploded over their homes early yesterday (Thurs).

Locals said the meteorite exploded at about 3am with what sounded like an enormous thunder clap followed by rumbling and howling.

Hans Handler from Velden told the newspaper ?sterreich yesterday: "I though it was either an earthquake or a crashing airplane."

Experts at an observatory at Gerlitzen near Villach said the meteorite had reached a temperature of more than 1,000 degrees Celsius after entering the earth&#8217;s atmosphere. They added the bang it had caused had been heard over a wide area of the province.

Hermann Mucke, the long-time chief of an astronomical office in Vienna, told the newspaper: "The meteorite produced a glow of an electric nature. Most such meteorites are detected at altitudes ranging from 80 to 120 kilometres."

Mucke added, however, that it would be impossible to prove that the phenomenon had been a meteorite. He said there was only one so-called "fireball" camera in Austria, which was located in the Waldviertel far from Carinthia, and so there were no photos of what had lit up the Carinthian sky yesterday morning.





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Become a Medical Transcriptionist. Click here to find schedules designed to fit your life.
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From almitt at kconline.com  Fri Apr 10 13:11:16 2009
From: almitt at kconline.com (al mitterling)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 13:11:16 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD Ebay Auctions Closing Soon
In-Reply-To: <20090410.082620.6926.0@webmail09.dca.untd.com>
References: <20090410.082620.6926.0@webmail09.dca.untd.com>
Message-ID: <46A0903DCEE04E60AC27775D0514A382@StarmanPC>

Greetings,

I have some ebay auctions closing in 22 to 43 hours from now. I have a .57 
gram part slice of Lost City, a small Allende slice 3.06 grams, NWA 2137 
Class: LL3.7 nice slice and not much of this material has been out on the 
market.

I also have a Micro of Lost City going for $15.00 which has some crust on 
it! Most notable is a full slice 85 gm of Powellsville, Ohio an H5 with low 
total weight and a beautiful finish.

See Auctions Here: http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/almittmet

All my best!

--AL Mitterling
Mitterling Meteorites
Dealing for over 20 years! 


From delraygoddess at yahoo.com  Fri Apr 10 13:53:57 2009
From: delraygoddess at yahoo.com (Leigh Anne DelRay)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 10:53:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] help,
	I can't figure out why I am not still subscribed
Message-ID: <394059.63347.qm@web37104.mail.mud.yahoo.com>



I don't know why I keep getting this.
I want to be on the list, but i can't seem to keep on there constantly, and it says that it has continuing bounces. I have never bounced anything, and the link below says to go there to fix it, but that is a broken link.
Please help me fix this so I can get the e-mails again
Thanks,
Leigh Anne



      

From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Fri Apr 10 14:06:04 2009
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 13:06:04 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] help,
	I can't figure out why I am not still 	subscribed
In-Reply-To: <394059.63347.qm@web37104.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <394059.63347.qm@web37104.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <e51421550904101106v7c83fca0k6f8c0a6d2b2b4390@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Leigh Anne!

I was having the problems with Yahoo mail and the List.  So I signed
up for another email account (gmail) and now I am having no problems
getting and sending List emails.  It must be something peculiar and
unique to Yahoo.

Best regards,

MikeG


On 4/10/09, Leigh Anne DelRay <delraygoddess at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> I don't know why I keep getting this.
> I want to be on the list, but i can't seem to keep on there constantly, and
> it says that it has continuing bounces. I have never bounced anything, and
> the link below says to go there to fix it, but that is a broken link.
> Please help me fix this so I can get the e-mails again
> Thanks,
> Leigh Anne
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


-- 
.........................................................
Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA)
Member of the Meteoritical Society.
Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network.
Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com
..........................................................

From cdtucson at cox.net  Fri Apr 10 15:36:31 2009
From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 12:36:31 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Mineral ID PTS Please
Message-ID: <20090410153631.5ZYSI.537227.imail@fed1rmwml44>

List,
I am still hoping to identify these minerals. I have added a plain light view. Please  excuse photo quality. 
Please note that third image shows a round mineral that with crossed polars disappears to black like glass. But looks like white sugar in sunlight.
Thank you.

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2hrjt5k&s=5

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=1zqea7t&s=5

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2en0mee&s=5

Carl Esparza
IMCA 5829
Meteoritemax

From geoking at notkin.net  Fri Apr 10 16:23:14 2009
From: geoking at notkin.net (Notkin)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 13:23:14 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] "Meteorwritings" May Edition Online
Message-ID: <5F45B894-94B6-4176-B01B-4484CE81C0EE@notkin.net>

Dear Listees:

Greetings from sunny Tucson.

For those who are interested, the May episode of my monthly science  
column "Meteorwritings" is now online at Geology.com:

http://geology.com


As I have mentioned before this is an entry level column and much of  
the content will be old hat to you pros. However, each month we take  
new, original photographs to accompany the column, and my photo  
associate Leigh Anne DelRay really outdid herself this month with some  
stellar shots of Allende, Camel Donga, Gao, Monze and others.

This month we take an in-depth look at stone meteorites, including a  
brief overview of classification, and short pieces about a few famous  
stone meteorites.

I hope you enjoy it.


Respectfully,

Geoff N.

www.aerolite.org
www.meteoriteblog.org
www.meteoritemen.com

From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Fri Apr 10 17:42:54 2009
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 14:42:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Gravity Wave Mission to Help Study Asteroids
Message-ID: <200904102142.OAA06379@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>


http://www.astronomynow.com/090407Gravitywavemissiontohelpstudyasteroids.html

Gravity wave mission to help study asteroids
BY DR EMILY BALDWIN
ASTRONOMY NOW
07 April, 2009

LISA, NASA and ESA's Laser interferometer Space Antenna, which will
attempt to detect gravitational waves, will also turn its "noise" into
useful information about near-Earth asteroids.

Gravity waves are associated with the warping of the space-time
continuum, believed to be caused by supernovae events or colliding black
holes sending ripples through the Universe. These ripples are what LISA
is hoping to detect. The mission will comprise three satellites
connected by laser beams, and if a gravitational wave passes them by,
their separation should change by a distance less than the width of an
atom.

Planetary scientists also realised that they too could exploit LISA,
since asteroids would also make the spacecraft wobble, leaving a
distinct signature in the data being collected. Pasquale Tricarico of
the Planetary Science Institute in Tucson, Arizona, developed this idea
to predict the number of asteroid encounters LISA can expect and how
those encounters can be used to determine the mass of passing asteroids.

The three LISA spacecraft will be placed in orbits that form a
triangular formation separated by 5 million km. Ripples in the fabric of
space and time will cause LISA to wobble. Passing asteroids will also
cause the spacecraft to wobble, providing useful insight into the
properties of NEAs. Image: NASA.

Mass may seem like an obvious vital statistic to know about a planetary
body, but Tricarico reveals that only the mass of asteroids that have
been visited by spacecraft or the mass of a few binary asteroids
observed from Earth are known. "We always wonder about the porosity, the
density, and this will give us measurements from additional asteroids,"
he says. Because LISA will look at known Near-Earth Asteroids (NEAs),
data on their trajectories will already be well-defined. "So from the
signal, we can indirectly measure the asteroid's mass because that's the
only uncertainty in the equation," he adds. Tricarico also points out
that if a known asteroid passes one of the satellites and doesn't leave
a signature then an upper limit can be placed on the mass of that asteroid.

The mission could also provide information on the distribution of sizes
of the NEA population. "We don't have good constraints on the size
distribution for small asteroids because they have to come very close to
Earth for us to observe them using ground-based telescopes," says
Tricarico, who predicts that LISA will "feel" one or two known
near-Earth asteroids a year, and a total of around ten during the
expected mission lifetime. But if LISA starts detecting five asteroids a
year instead of two or three, this could modify theories concerning the
distribution of sizes in the NEA population.

There will be a while to wait before any results are seen, however, for
LISA will be launched no earlier than 2018. Tricarico's paper describing
the way in which LISA can be exploited for studying asteroids will be
published in the Classical and Quantum Gravity journal. His research was
supported by NASA's Applied Information Research Program.


From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Fri Apr 10 17:51:02 2009
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 14:51:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars Exploration Rovers Update - April 1-8, 2009
Message-ID: <200904102151.OAA08009@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>


http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/mission/status.html

SPIRIT UPDATE:  Four Drives Add to Progress - sols 1865-1871, 
April 01-08, 2009:

Spirit has been busy making good progress around the western edge of
"Home Plate." The rover drove four out of the past seven sols, making
more than 40 meters (131 feet) of total distance.

First, Spirit completed a science campaign on light-toned material
unearthed the preceding week, then the rover resumed driving on Sol 1866
(April 3, 2009; no sol number for Spirit corresponded to April 2, 2009,
using the criterion of the date in Los Angeles at local solar noon on
Mars). The Sol 1866 drive achieved only about 3 meters (10 feet) of
progress due to excessive slip. On the next drive sol, Sol 1868 (April
5, 2009), Spirit avoided the troubled terrain and completed about 17.5
meters (57 feet). A pair of drives on Sols 1870 and 1871 (April 7 and 8,
2009) added another 20 meters (66 feet) of progress.

As of Sol 1871 (April 8, 2009), Spirit's solar array energy production
is 240 watt-hours, equivalent to what it takes to light a 100-watt bulb
for 2.4 hours. Atmospheric opacity (tau) has improved slightly to 0.99.
The dust factor is 0.304, meaning that 30.4 percent of sunlight hitting
the solar array penetrates the layer of accumulated dust on the array.
The rover is in good health as it makes progress around Home Plate.
Spirit's total odometry is 7,726.78 meters (4.80 miles).

------------------------------------------------------------------------

OPPORTUNITY UPDATE:  Cleaning Event Boosts Energy - sols 1844-1851,
April 01-08, 2009:

Opportunity completed a contact science campaign on an exposed rock
outcrop and then resumed driving.

On Sol 1845 (April 2, 2009), the rover's robotic arm (IDD) placed the
M?ssbauer (MB) spectrometer on the outcrop target "Penrhyn" for a
multi-sol integration. On Sol 1850 (April 7, 2009), a temporary
stand-down on driving was provisionally lifted and Opportunity resumed
driving. The MB was retracted and the arm moved into the driving stow
position. Opportunity then drove backward about 62.5 meters (205 feet).
Diving backward was a continuation of mitigation techniques used in
recent weeks in response to elevated current observed in the right-front
wheel. The mitigation also has included resting the drive actuator for
several sols, which coincided with the just-completed contact science
campaign. The drive went well and the right-front actuator exhibited
currents near normal levels, good news.

Opportunity also benefited from a solar array cleaning event which
boosted energy levels by about 40 percent, a big increase. Now if only
Spirit could get such a cleaning.

As of Sol 1850 (April 7, 2009), Opportunity's solar array energy
production has increased to 515 watt-hours. Atmospheric opacity (tau)
remains elevated at around 0.95. The dust factor has improved to 0.642,
meaning that 64.2 percent of sunlight hitting the solar array penetrates
the layer of accumulated dust on the array. The rover is in good health
with a rested actuator and extra energy.

As of Sol 1851 (April 8, 2009) Opportunity's total odometry is 15,113.97
meters (9.39 miles).



From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Fri Apr 10 17:58:27 2009
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 14:58:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars Odyssey THEMIS Images: April 6-10, 2009
Message-ID: <200904102158.OAA09617@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>


MARS ODYSSEY THEMIS IMAGES
April 6-10, 2009

o Hebes Chasma (Released 06 April 2009)
  http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090406a

o Dark Slope Streaks (Released 07 April 2009)
  http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090407a

o Dust Devil Tracks (Released 08 April 2009)
  http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090408a

o Wind Erosion (Released 09 April 2009)
  http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090409a

o Ceraunius Fossae (Released 10 April 2009)
  http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090410a


All of the THEMIS images are archived here:

http://themis.asu.edu/latest.html

NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory manages the 2001 Mars Odyssey mission 
for NASA's Office of Space Science, Washington, D.C. The Thermal Emission 
Imaging System (THEMIS) was developed by Arizona State University,
Tempe, in co.oration with Raytheon Santa Barbara Remote Sensing. 
The THEMIS investigation is led by Dr. Philip Christensen at Arizona State 
University. Lockheed Martin Astronautics, Denver, is the prime contractor 
for the Odyssey project, and developed and built the orbiter. Mission 
operations are conducted jointly from Lockheed Martin and from JPL, a 
division of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena. 




From bristolia at yahoo.com  Fri Apr 10 23:06:40 2009
From: bristolia at yahoo.com (Paul)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 20:06:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] STEREO Hunts for Remains of an Ancient Planet
	near Earth
Message-ID: <693105.30250.qm@web36204.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


Ron Baalke posted:

" http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2009/09apr_theia.htm?list973415

STEREO Hunts for Remains of an Ancient Planet near Earth
NASA Science News, April 9, 2009"

Some additional papers and articles are:

Stereo spacecraft set to search for lunar origins By Pete 
Spotts, Christian Science Monitor, 

http://features.csmonitor.com/discoveries/2009/04/10/stereo-spacecraft-set-to-search-for-lunar-leftovers/

Giant impact hypothesis, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giant_impact_hypothesis

The Origin of the Moon and the Single Impact Hypothesis
by A. G. W. Cameron

http://www.xtec.es/recursos/astronom/moon/camerone.htm

The Theia Hypothesis: New Evidence Emerges that Earth and 
Moon Were Once the Same, July 05, 2007, 

http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2007/07/the-theia-hypot.html

O'Neill, H.S., 2007, Bowen Lecture: The origin of the Moon 
and the early history the Earth revisited

http://www.agu.org/cgi-bin/SFgate/SFgate?&listenv=table&multiple=1&range=1&directget=1&application

Halliday, A. N., 2008, A young Moon-forming giant impact at 
70?110 million years accompanied by late-stage mixing, core 
formation and degassing of the Earth. Philosophical 
transactions of the Royal Society A.  vol. 366, no. 1883, 
pp. 4163-4181. Abstract at:

http://rsta.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/366/1883/4163.abstract

PDF file of paper at 

http://rsta.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/366/1883/4163.full.pdf+html

Yours,

Paul H.



      

From bristolia at yahoo.com  Fri Apr 10 23:10:48 2009
From: bristolia at yahoo.com (Paul)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 20:10:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Gamma Ray Burst caused mass extinction? (With URLs
	to PDF Files)
Message-ID: <694515.2831.qm@web36206.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


Gamma-Ray Burst Caused Mass Extinction? Anne Minard 
National Geographic News, April 3, 2009, 
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/04/090403-gamma-ray-extinction.html

There are a number of papers about this hypothesis. 

Melott, A.L., B.S. Lieberman, C.M. Laird, L.D. Martin, 
M.V. Medvedev, B.C. Thomas, J.K. Cannizzo, N. Gehrels, 
and C.H. Jackman, 2004, Did a gamma-ray burst initiate 
the late Ordovician mass extinction? International 
Journal of Astrobiology, vol. 3, pp. 55-61.
http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=240775 

The PDF file is at http://arxiv.org/pdf/astro-ph/0309415

Thomas, B.C. C.H.. Jackman, A.L. Melott, C.M. Laird, RS. 
Stolarski, N. Gehrels, J.K. Cannizzo, and D.P. Hogan, 2005. 
Terrestrial Ozone Depletion due to a Milky Way Gamma Ray 
Burst. The Astrophysical Journal Letters. vol. 622, no. 2, 
pp. L153?L156. 
http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/429799


The PDF file is at http://arxiv.org/pdf/astro-ph/0411284 

Dar, A. and A. De Rujula, 2002, The threat to life from 
Eta Carinae and gamma ray bursts. Astrophysics and 
Gamma Ray Physics in Space. Frascati Physics Series Vol. 24 
pp. 513-523 http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0110162

PDF file at http://arxiv.org/pdf/astro-ph/0110162v2

Thomas, B.C., A.L. Melott1, C.H. Jackman, C.M. Laird, M.V. 
Medvedev, R.S.. Stolarski, N. Gehrels, J.K. Cannizzo, D.P. 
Hogan, and L.M. Ejzak, 2005, Gamma-Ray Bursts and the 
Earth: Exploration of Atmospheric, Biological, Climatic and 
Biogeochemical Effects. The Astrophysical Journal.
vol. 634, pp. 509-533 http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0505472

PDF file at http://arxiv.org/pdf/astro-ph/0505472

A.L. Melott and B.C.Thomas, Late Ordovician geographic 
patterns of extinction compared with simulations of 
astrophysical ionizing radiation damage. 

PDf file at http://arxiv.org/pdf/0809.0899

Gamma-Ray Bursts as a Threat to Life on Earth
by B. C. Thomas. http://arxiv.org/pdf/0903.4710

Gamma-ray burst
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamma_ray_burst

Yours, 

Paul H.



      

From bristolia at yahoo.com  Fri Apr 10 23:15:49 2009
From: bristolia at yahoo.com (Paul)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 20:15:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Black Diamonds: A interesting PBS NOVA article
Message-ID: <808628.36507.qm@web36204.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


Steve Schoner wrote:

"Here is a very interesting PBS article on carbonados.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/diamond/sky2.html "

Also look at:

Kagi, H. and S. Fukura, 2008, Infrared and Raman spectroscopic 
observations of Central African carbonado and implications for 
its origin. European Journal of  Mineralogy. vol. 20, no. 3, 
pp. 387-393, DOI: 10.1127/0935-1221/2008/0020-1817
http://eurjmin.geoscienceworld.org/cgi/content/abstract/20/3/387

McCall, G.J.H., 2009, The carbonado diamond conundrum. 
Earth-Science Reviews. vol. 93, no. 3-4, pp. 85?91. 
http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.earscirev.2009.01.002

Yokochi, R., D. Ohnenstetter, and Y. Sano, 2008, Intragrain 
Variation in g13C And Nitrogen Concentration Associated 
with Textural Heterogeneities of Carbonado. The Canadian 
Mineralogist. vol. 46, no. 5, pp. 1283-1296, DOI: 10.3749/canmin.46.5.1283
http://canmin.geoscienceworld.org/cgi/content/abstract/46/5/1283

Diamonds, II: Diamond and Carbonado: Crystal Habits and Surface Morphology
http://www.turnstone.ca/diamond2.htm

yours,

Paul H.



      

From schoner at mybluelight.com  Sat Apr 11 00:28:12 2009
From: schoner at mybluelight.com (Steve Schoner)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 04:28:12 GMT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Black Diamonds: A interesting PBS NOVA article
Message-ID: <20090410.222812.12576.0@webmail02.dca.untd.com>

Here is the first article by Stephen Haggarty and others:

http://www.garai-research.com/research%20statement/carbonado/carbonado-infrared.htm

Looks to be a very compelling argument.

Steve.

[meteorite-list] Black Diamonds: A interesting PBS NOVA article
Paul bristolia at yahoo.com
Fri Apr 10 23:15:49 EDT 2009

    * Previous message: [meteorite-list] Gamma Ray Burst caused mass extinction? (With URLs to PDF Files)
    * Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]


Steve Schoner wrote:

"Here is a very interesting PBS article on carbonados.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/diamond/sky2.html "

Also look at:

Kagi, H. and S. Fukura, 2008, Infrared and Raman spectroscopic
observations of Central African carbonado and implications for
its origin. European Journal of Mineralogy. vol. 20, no. 3,
pp. 387-393, DOI: 10.1127/0935-1221/2008/0020-1817
http://eurjmin.geoscienceworld.org/cgi/content/abstract/20/3/387

McCall, G.J.H., 2009, The carbonado diamond conundrum.
Earth-Science Reviews. vol. 93, no. 3-4, pp. 85&#8211;91.
http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.earscirev.2009.01.002

Yokochi, R., D. Ohnenstetter, and Y. Sano, 2008, Intragrain
Variation in g13C And Nitrogen Concentration Associated
with Textural Heterogeneities of Carbonado. The Canadian
Mineralogist. vol. 46, no. 5, pp. 1283-1296, DOI: 10.3749/canmin.46.5.1283
http://canmin.geoscienceworld.org/cgi/content/abstract/46/5/1283

Diamonds, II: Diamond and Carbonado: Crystal Habits and Surface Morphology
http://www.turnstone.ca/diamond2.htm

yours,

Paul H.




____________________________________________________________
Click to become an artist and quit your boring job.
http://thirdpartyoffers.mybluelight.com/TGL2341/fc/BLSrjpdioVxJHOzd02wEIlGWRFnlaEkt3dBVggRpm7tEJ7xY6i49xaWV4kw/

From rob at nakhladogmeteorites.com  Sat Apr 11 02:36:37 2009
From: rob at nakhladogmeteorites.com (Rob Wesel)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 23:36:37 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Another meteorite related shirt at shirt.woot
Message-ID: <001601c9ba6f$ddce22a0$6501a8c0@windows9bb74fe>

They only have them for 24 hours

http://shirt.woot.com/

Rob Wesel
http://www.nakhladogmeteorites.com
------------------
We are the music makers...
and we are the dreamers of the dreams.
Willy Wonka, 1971



From erikfwebb at msn.com  Sat Apr 11 06:44:07 2009
From: erikfwebb at msn.com (Erik Fisler)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 03:44:07 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Off to hunt Holbrook!
Message-ID: <COL119-W7653BBCDEECAF2DD2F646EA4810@phx.gbl>


My dad and I are leaving now and will
be in Holbrook in about 4 hours. We
are also checking out some new promising
area's on the way to and from Holbrook.
Cross your fingers for a new strewnfield!
 
[Erik]

From keithandana at gmail.com  Sat Apr 11 13:18:18 2009
From: keithandana at gmail.com (Keith and Dana Jenkerson)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 10:18:18 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] (AD) Ebay items ending tomorrow!
Message-ID: <f9cf59510904111018v110b05ebr4be1e8aee604882e@mail.gmail.com>

Hello, All!

We wanted to let you know that we have some nice pieces ending on Ebay tomorrow!

Canyon Diablo Etched Slice - 89.2 grams
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=110373547186

Sikhote-Alin Individual - 64.3 grams
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=110373547616

Canyon Diablo Etched Slice - 93.7 grams
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=120402472994

Canyon Diablo Individual - 80 grams
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=120402473324

Nice 130 gram Canyon Diablo individual
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=120402473647

Stunning Muonionalusta Etched Slice- 290.5 grams- looks like a quail
with it's cool inclusion!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=120402474079

Nice Large Canyon Diablo - 211 grams
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=110373549413

120 gram Gold Basin Meteorite
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=110373550075

Thanks for looking and Happy Easter!

Dana and Keith



--
KD Meteorites
kdmeteorites.com
Keith and Dana Jenkerson
4596 N. Vickie Lane
Kingman, AZ., 86409
928-399-0140
928-277-9293

From keithandana at gmail.com  Sat Apr 11 13:42:30 2009
From: keithandana at gmail.com (Keith and Dana Jenkerson)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 10:42:30 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] (AD) Ebay items ending tomorrow!
Message-ID: <f9cf59510904111042v558d0821k7815032d19843356@mail.gmail.com>

Hello, All!

We wanted to let you know that we have some nice pieces ending on Ebay tomorrow!

Canyon Diablo Etched Slice - 89.2 grams
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=110373547186

Sikhote-Alin Individual - 64.3 grams
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=110373547616

Canyon Diablo Etched Slice - 93.7 grams
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=120402472994

Canyon Diablo Individual - 80 grams
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=120402473324

Nice 130 gram Canyon Diablo individual
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=120402473647

Stunning Muonionalusta Etched Slice- 290.5 grams- looks like a quail
with it's cool inclusion!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=120402474079

Nice Large Canyon Diablo - 211 grams
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=110373549413

120 gram Gold Basin Meteorite
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=110373550075

Thanks for looking and Happy Easter!

Dana and Keith

--
KD Meteorites
kdmeteorites.com
Keith and Dana Jenkerson
4596 N. Vickie Lane
Kingman, AZ., 86409
928-399-0140
928-277-9293

From keithandana at gmail.com  Sat Apr 11 13:57:57 2009
From: keithandana at gmail.com (Keith and Dana Jenkerson)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 10:57:57 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] (AD) 17.62 pound Canyon Diablo
Message-ID: <f9cf59510904111057pac58c79ib43700d58f29f726@mail.gmail.com>

Hello;

We have a 17.62 pound/8.0 Kg Canyon Diablo Meteorite for sale. This is
a nice specimen that displays well and has a nice shape.
We are asking .45/gram. Contact us for pictures.

Keith and Dana



--
KD Meteorites
kdmeteorites.com
Keith and Dana Jenkerson
4596 N. Vickie Lane
Kingman, AZ., 86409
928-399-0140
928-277-9293

From MeteorHntr at aol.com  Sat Apr 11 14:25:29 2009
From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 14:25:29 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] West Full Slices Price Increase, AD
Message-ID: <d0d.4fb8561f.37123a99@aol.com>

Hello List,

First off, I need to make a correction: according to my  meteorite cutter, 
the exact weight of the West meteorite I have was 1,663g and  not 1,673g  (I 
guess the Post Office scale was off a tad)

Just a  short note to let you guys know that I only have 8 full slices of 
my 1,663g West  stone left.  I am now down to a total of only 332.5g in 
slices, and I have  the one 217.1g end that will be used to make part slices (no 
full slices  available from it) if no one wants to buy it as is.

I have sold the large  557.2g end piece, so over 2/3 of the entire mass has 
sold now.  And to  celebrate I am announcing a price increase on the 
remaining slices. 

They  are now going up from $37.50 per gram to $42.50 per gram.  What 
doesn't  sell soon, will probably be listed one at a time on Ebay starting at 
$42.50/g  and we can let competition see what these are really worth.

With the sale  of the Main Mass of West now having been made, and the 
strong likelihood that it  will not be sliced up, this should be your only chance 
to get a big slice if you  haven't got one yet.

For all of you who have bought slices, thank you for  your business.  It 
really is appreciated.

I also have some small  individuals still for sale as well.

I am expecting to be totally sold out  of all West (slices and individuals) 
shortly after our TV show "Meteorite Men"  airs on May 10th on Science 
Channel.  In the past we have seen massive  website traffic spikes on days that 
our meteorite shows air.  Even for  shows where we were just a small segment 
of a larger program. 

We expect  the response with this show will be substantially higher than 
the others in the  past due to it being a full hour long, and due to the much 
higher production  budget to enable the show's production quality to be so  
much better.  
 
Of course the jury is still out as to the quality of the content of the  
show, compared to shows in the past.  And while I am a bit biased, I have a  
feeling this one is going to be a much better show than what has been seen in 
 the past. 

All that adds up to more web site traffic and hopefully more  visitors 
converted to sales customers.  With only 8 full slices of West  left, and only a 
couple dozen or so West stones left, I expect they will  all be gone within 
the next month and a half. 

Please contact me off  list if you are interested in photos and details on 
what is left. 

Also,  if anyone has any West specimens they would like to sell to me, or 
for me to  broker on their behalf, please contact me off list as well.

Steve  Arnold
Arkansas 


**************Hurry! April 15th is almost here. File your Federal taxes 
FREE with TaxACT. 
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221653545x1201423923/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.taxact.com%2F08tax.asp%3Fsc%3D084102950004
%26p%3D82)

From epgrondine at yahoo.com  Sat Apr 11 17:59:38 2009
From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 14:59:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Geoff's new introduction to meteorites page
Message-ID: <632354.24730.qm@web36905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


Hi Geoff - 

Enjoyed taking a quick look at your new introduction to meteorites page, and it should do a lot of good both for young children and for those not so young with dollar signs flashing before their eyes. 

But..."Impact Craters" are not all "Meteor Craters", as many time COMETS have hit, despite what some people in San Francisco and Arizona may insist. For example, we have the kt-fossil carbonaceous chondrite from the KT ELE.

I don't like to be picky, picky picky, but this is important, particularly when educating the next generation about what we and they are going to have to be looking out for.

good hunting, all 
(and from the news it looks like there will be a European hunt going on which we will enjoy watching here)
E.P. Grondine
Man and Impact in the Americas







      

From moritzkarl at t-online.de  Sat Apr 11 18:35:29 2009
From: moritzkarl at t-online.de (Moritz Karl)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2009 00:35:29 +0200
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: ebay auctions ending in less than 24 hours
Message-ID: <000c01c9baf5$d1a1b740$74e525c0$@de>

Hi List,

I have 10 ebay auctions ending in 21 hours.

These auctions include:

Atoka - 0.11 gr. partslice
Cape York - 29.4 gr. etched partslice
Carancas - 0.68 gr. fragment
Cumberland Falls - 0.31 gr. partslice
Dar al Gani 400 - 0.11 gr. partslice
Fukang - 13.02 gr. polished partslice
Isna - 1.31 gr. partslice
Mundrabilla - 27.6 gr. etched partslice
Pena Blanca Springs - 3.75 gr. partslice
Wiluna - 7.12 gr. Individual

You can see all auctions here:

http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/meteoriten

Thank you for looking and good luck in case you are bidding!
Kind Regards
Moritz Karl
Germany


From rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com  Sat Apr 11 19:14:25 2009
From: rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com (Rob McCafferty)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 16:14:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Questions about accretion. Part 2 UAE,
	Shock wave distribution proto Solar System
In-Reply-To: <837397.52762.qm@web55208.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <289388.53982.qm@web55207.mail.re4.yahoo.com>


Great postings Elton. They take the whole discussion to a far greater level and I fo one applaud you for it. 
I like to think there are others that appreciate it and thin this is what this list should be about.

As an addition to what you say I will say the following.

The short half life of Al26  (yes, I believe it is 720 thousand years) is a really good indication that differentiation took place very quickly. 

Al26 would have been present in large quantities (1 part in 10^5 of aluminium atoms) and would provide a large source of energy. Info from encyc of meteorites).
It's short half life limits the differentiation period to less than 10Ma, borne out by the majority meteorite samples we have).

There is, of course the issue of homogeneity amongst the pre/proto solar nebula.

Even distribution of isotopes around the nebula used for dating the solar system is assumed rather than confirmed.
Personally, I don't think it makes much difference.

The sphericity of the Oort cloud versus the disk of the solar system is likely a density of matter issue. Beyond 60AU, the material is likely to be too thinly spread in the early solar system to form into a proper disk (a factor that would also induce heating in the inner region thoug I don't know how much and it'd be more significant closer in).

There is also the issue of the E-M effect produced during the T-Tauri phase.
I adored the idea you made (I've never heard it before) of it resisting differentiation. I think you're right and it may be a contributing factor to the size of planetary bodies. Only when gravity can overcome such an effect can differentiation occur.

We know that T-Tauri stars eject material out through their poles. Maybe as much as 0.0001 solar masses may re-accrrete to the disk (+/- an order of magnitude). As it does so, huge EM effects will take place.

We know it happens but we don't know how or why or the effect it has.

Personally, I think it's great that we have found out so much but still have so much to know and I love being able to chew it over here.

Rob





--- On Wed, 4/8/09, Mr EMan <mstreman53 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Mr EMan <mstreman53 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Questions about accretion. Part 2 UAE, Shock wave distribution proto Solar System
> To: "Meteorites USA" <eric at meteoritesusa.com>, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Wednesday, April 8, 2009, 3:33 AM
> There was a question regarding the sorting of elements and
> why for example common chondrules had more iron than did
> Carbonaceous chondrites. The reason for the difference also
> includes why we use isotope ratios to determine from where a
> parent body probably formed within the solar system.
> 
> Sometime in early solar system development there was a
> sustained and or repeated strong solar wind or mini-nova, or
> perhaps our own ancestral sun's predecessor nearby
> supernova, or other cosmic water hose(?) that sweep through
> the swirling matter in the proto-solar disk, significantly
> sorting it out by elemental and molecular weights. Heavier
> particles weren't pushed out as far as the lighter ones.
>  Thus we have heavy to light sorting of particles/ elements/
> molecules/ solids/ gases etc from the inner rocky planets at
> one end to the giant gas planets beyond the asteroid belt
> and all way out to the Ort cloud.  The sorting was not
> perfect but did rearrange the mixtures of elements locally. 
> Conservation of angular momentum must have broken down at
> some level such that the Oort Cloud is theorized to be more
> or less spherical while planetary masses tend to lie close
> to the plane of the ecliptic. (This glitch influences
> measured elemental ratios of our known
>  solar system and just mentioned for those paying
> attention)
> 
> Thus before significant planetary accretion(first 3-5
> million years?) we experienced a cycle of sorting that left
> zones of like particles to be accreted.  This sorting also
> locally affected the ratios of the individual isotopes of
> elements from a concept we know as the Universal Abundance
> of the Elements.(UAE)  (The UAE says that based on human
> measurements the mass of the universe is concentrated in the
> first 20 elements which incidentally were the main elements
> associated with living processes). 
> 
>  When the local Solar system abundance of the UAE was
> disturbed, distribution of isotope ratios were also skewed
> in the local solar system.  Ergo oxygen isotope studies in
> meteorites tell us what relative distance/radius a parent
> body formed away from the sun. 
> 
> On Earth the ratios for Oxygen:
> O18(Tritium)-O17(Deuterium)-O16 is something like 18O / 16O
> = 2005.20 ?0.43 ppm (a ratio of 1 part per approximately
> 498.7 parts) 17O / 16O = 379.9 ?1.6 ppm (a ratio of 1 part
> per approximately 2632 parts)  This ratio signature is
> specific to an origin in the Earth Moon distance and there
> is a different one for Mars, the asteroid belt, Jupiter,
> Saturn and carbonaceous chondrites etc.  Complications to
> this gradient include the amount of oxygen returned to earth
> via comets in what was known as the great bombardment-- back
> skewing the post shockwave sorting in the early sweep out.  
> 
> Ok we are at the end almost.  O18 being two neutrons
> heavier takes more latent energy to vaporize and results in
> a slight concentration of its ratio in seawater depending on
> how much extra energy is around.  The colder the climate the
> more O18 gets left behind in seawater and available for
> building carbonate seashells.  The higher the temperature
> trends the more gets evaporated and a portion of that gets
> preserved in paleo-ice cores.  Thus ratios differ in
> sequestrations such as in coral reefs and sea shells. This
> characteristic makes O18 content in ancient ice cores and
> fossil shells equivalent to a paleo thermometer.
> 
> Long way around answering why some classes of meteorites
> have more iron in them than others.
> 
> Elton
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


      

From m_graul at yahoo.de  Sat Apr 11 20:07:06 2009
From: m_graul at yahoo.de (Mirko Graul)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2009 00:07:06 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Tamdakht 837.3g and a 150.5g Lot ending on ebay
Message-ID: <255416.28717.qm@web26306.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>


Dear List Members,

my large 837.3g Tamdakht and a 150.5g dealers lot with 15 pieces 
ending on ebay in nearly 20 hours.
The price are very low in moment!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=250402161115

and 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=270369829209

Thank you for your interest,

Mirko 
    

Mirko Graul Meteorite 
Quittenring.4 
16321 Bernau 
GERMANY 

Phone: 0049-1724105015 
E-Mail: m_graul at yahoo.de 
WEB: www.meteorite-mirko.de 

Member of The Meteoritical Society 
(International Society for Meteoritics and Planetery Science) 

IMCA-Member: 2113 
(International Meteorite Collectors Association)


      

From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com  Sat Apr 11 23:33:12 2009
From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 23:33:12 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - April 12,
	2009
Message-ID: <c72.4f34e72f.3712baf8@aol.com>

http://www.rocksfromspace.org/April_12_2009.html



__________________________




Michael  Johnson
http://www.spacerocksinc.com
http://www.rocksfromspace.org
http://www.sikhote-alin.org   

**************Check all of your email inboxes from anywhere on the web.  
Try the new Email Toolbar now! 
(http://toolbar.aol.com/mail/download.html?ncid=txtlnkusdown00000027)

From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Sat Apr 11 23:55:08 2009
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 22:55:08 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - April 12,
	2009
In-Reply-To: <c72.4f34e72f.3712baf8@aol.com>
References: <c72.4f34e72f.3712baf8@aol.com>
Message-ID: <e51421550904112055m309bd705hcdebd563b1e012b8@mail.gmail.com>

What a beautiful and striking stone!

Thanks for sharing that one. :)


On 4/11/09, SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com <SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com> wrote:
> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/April_12_2009.html
>
>
>
> __________________________
>
>
>
>
> Michael  Johnson
> http://www.spacerocksinc.com
> http://www.rocksfromspace.org
> http://www.sikhote-alin.org
>
> **************Check all of your email inboxes from anywhere on the web.
> Try the new Email Toolbar now!
> (http://toolbar.aol.com/mail/download.html?ncid=txtlnkusdown00000027)
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


-- 
.........................................................
Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA)
Member of the Meteoritical Society.
Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network.
Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com
..........................................................

From rob at nakhladogmeteorites.com  Sun Apr 12 00:46:15 2009
From: rob at nakhladogmeteorites.com (Rob Wesel)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 21:46:15 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Are meteorites in your blood?
Message-ID: <00ed01c9bb29$9cedc050$6501a8c0@windows9bb74fe>

Hello all

Check out the new tattoo, incidental man nipple alert

http://www.nakhladogmeteorites.com/catalog/murchtat.htm

Rob Wesel
http://www.nakhladogmeteorites.com
------------------
We are the music makers...
and we are the dreamers of the dreams.
Willy Wonka, 1971



From qwalkra at mailbox.ezadsl.net.au  Sun Apr 12 04:32:29 2009
From: qwalkra at mailbox.ezadsl.net.au (Bob WALKER)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2009 18:32:29 +1000
Subject: [meteorite-list] QMIG UPDATE
Message-ID: <26F3D59F585448D68952CE13243884BA@your0a700f0aaf>

Listoids

QMIG updates

http://www.qmig.org

I've popped the linked to the classic Hodge-Smith Australian Meteorites 1939 
article onto my articles webpage...

I'm trying to scan the 1974 Brian Mason tables of microprobe data for oz 
meteorites and I'll see if I can upload it tonite

Tomorrow is a sit down with my laptop and scanner day to clear up the 
backlog of articles I wish to webpublish...

Thats about it - a belated very happy Easter to all Listoids (except Jeff of 
course)

Hooroo 


From dfpens01 at yahoo.com  Sun Apr 12 11:27:07 2009
From: dfpens01 at yahoo.com (David Pensenstadler)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2009 08:27:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Looking for good book on meteorite petrology
Message-ID: <930130.36929.qm@web90302.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


Dear list:

Can anyone recommend a good book on petrology of meteorites?  I am particularly interested in how to identify materials shown in thin sections.  Material can be basic or fairly technical.

O. Richard Norton's Field Guide to Meteors and Meteorites is wonderful but I am looking for more information on identifying various minerals in meteorite thin sections.

Thanks for any info.

Dave



      

From qwalkra at mailbox.ezadsl.net.au  Sun Apr 12 14:37:53 2009
From: qwalkra at mailbox.ezadsl.net.au (Bob WALKER)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 04:37:53 +1000
Subject: [meteorite-list] Looking for good book on meteorite petrology
References: <930130.36929.qm@web90302.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9A2BFC8DC0C24C6B89BF241EA2EC9F98@your0a700f0aaf>

http://meteoritecoloratlas.com/index.html

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=krU6AAAAIAAJ&dq=meteorites+in+thin+section&printsec=frontcover&source=in&hl=en&ei=SDTiSYzpK4iUkAX-ipnWCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=12#PPP1,M1

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Pensenstadler" <dfpens01 at yahoo.com>
To: "Meteorite List" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 1:27 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Looking for good book on meteorite petrology


>
> Dear list:
>
> Can anyone recommend a good book on petrology of meteorites?  I am 
> particularly interested in how to identify materials shown in thin 
> sections.  Material can be basic or fairly technical.
>
> O. Richard Norton's Field Guide to Meteors and Meteorites is wonderful but 
> I am looking for more information on identifying various minerals in 
> meteorite thin sections.
>
> Thanks for any info.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus 
> signature database 4002 (20090411) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
> 


From rob at nakhladogmeteorites.com  Sun Apr 12 14:54:15 2009
From: rob at nakhladogmeteorites.com (Rob Wesel)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2009 11:54:15 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Some Easter Deals
Message-ID: <00c601c9bba0$13db2420$6501a8c0@windows9bb74fe>

Happy Easter everyone

A little lack of planning last week could mean some deals for you.

Lots of meteorites with names and witnesses ending in about four hours.

http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnakhladog

Be well,

Rob Wesel
http://www.nakhladogmeteorites.com
------------------
We are the music makers...
and we are the dreamers of the dreams.
Willy Wonka, 1971



From marc.d.fries at jpl.nasa.gov  Sun Apr 12 14:57:02 2009
From: marc.d.fries at jpl.nasa.gov (Fries, Marc D)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2009 11:57:02 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Black Diamonds: A interesting PBS NOVA article
In-Reply-To: <20090410.222812.12576.0@webmail02.dca.untd.com>
Message-ID: <C607878E.76AF%Marc.D.Fries@jpl.nasa.gov>

Wish I?d seen this one when it came out; I?d have gladly written a rebuttal
paper.  Not quite sure how they can claim there is a "complete absence of a
deep Earth fingerprint", especially since they point out the low delta-C13
values in carbonadoes themselves.  The same range of values is seen in
reduced carbon from both terrestrial and martian igneous rocks, as other
papers have noted.  Nitrogen has been noted in mantle fluids numerous times
as well and could easily be the source of the nitrogen in carbonadoes.  I've
never seen "planar defect lamellae" in a carbonado, which this paper
mentions but doesn't show.  Planar defects can be simply the result of
strain while buried, and only for silicates have the criteria for
distinguishing strain-induced lamellae from shock-derived PDF's been
established.  All of the features of carbonadoes can be explained by
formation in a deep-Earth environment from carbonaceous fluids or gases with
the caveat that it would have to be a very reducing environment.  There are
two comments to be made about that - 1) that very fact has been used to
explain away the possibility that a natural reactor is the source of
carbonadoes, and 2) it would be a rare environment, but that is consistent
with the fact that carbonadoes have basically only been found once in
Earth's historical record.  It also only requires a casual perusal of the
mineral record to see examples of extremes of both reducing and oxidizing
environments in the Earth's crust.

Beyond this note, I'm really too busy to get into this.  Carbonadoes are
very cool and still mysterious, but I have yet to see a convincing argument
that they are extraterrestrial.  I've examined a few myself and found them
to be a marvelous oddity, but a terrestrial oddity.  I certainly wouldn't
evoke an asteroid-sized diamond impactor to explain them.

Cheers,
MDF

On 4/10/09 9:28 PM, "Steve Schoner" <schoner at mybluelight.com> wrote:

> Here is the first article by Stephen Haggarty and others:
> 
> http://www.garai-research.com/research%20statement/carbonado/carbonado-infrare
> d.htm
> 
> Looks to be a very compelling argument.
> 
> Steve.
> 
> [meteorite-list] Black Diamonds: A interesting PBS NOVA article
> Paul bristolia at yahoo.com
> Fri Apr 10 23:15:49 EDT 2009
> 
>     * Previous message: [meteorite-list] Gamma Ray Burst caused mass
> extinction? (With URLs to PDF Files)
>     * Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]
> 
> 
> Steve Schoner wrote:
> 
> "Here is a very interesting PBS article on carbonados.
> 
> http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/diamond/sky2.html "
> 
> Also look at:
> 
> Kagi, H. and S. Fukura, 2008, Infrared and Raman spectroscopic
> observations of Central African carbonado and implications for
> its origin. European Journal of Mineralogy. vol. 20, no. 3,
> pp. 387-393, DOI: 10.1127/0935-1221/2008/0020-1817
> http://eurjmin.geoscienceworld.org/cgi/content/abstract/20/3/387
> 
> McCall, G.J.H., 2009, The carbonado diamond conundrum.
> Earth-Science Reviews. vol. 93, no. 3-4, pp. 85&#8211;91.
> http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.earscirev.2009.01.002
> 
> Yokochi, R., D. Ohnenstetter, and Y. Sano, 2008, Intragrain
> Variation in g13C And Nitrogen Concentration Associated
> with Textural Heterogeneities of Carbonado. The Canadian
> Mineralogist. vol. 46, no. 5, pp. 1283-1296, DOI: 10.3749/canmin.46.5.1283
> http://canmin.geoscienceworld.org/cgi/content/abstract/46/5/1283
> 
> Diamonds, II: Diamond and Carbonado: Crystal Habits and Surface Morphology
> http://www.turnstone.ca/diamond2.htm
> 
> yours,
> 
> Paul H.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> Click to become an artist and quit your boring job.
> http://thirdpartyoffers.mybluelight.com/TGL2341/fc/BLSrjpdioVxJHOzd02wEIlGWRFn
> laEkt3dBVggRpm7tEJ7xY6i49xaWV4kw/
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


From qwalkra at mailbox.ezadsl.net.au  Sun Apr 12 15:12:40 2009
From: qwalkra at mailbox.ezadsl.net.au (Bob WALKER)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 05:12:40 +1000
Subject: [meteorite-list] Black Diamonds: A interesting PBS NOVA article
References: <C607878E.76AF%Marc.D.Fries@jpl.nasa.gov>
Message-ID: <31FFB331B43E4DC3A72F0D2B2E79AE03@your0a700f0aaf>

http://arxiv.org/ftp/physics/papers/0608/0608014.pdf

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Fries, Marc D" <marc.d.fries at jpl.nasa.gov>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 4:57 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Black Diamonds: A interesting PBS NOVA article


> Wish I?d seen this one when it came out; I?d have gladly written a 
> rebuttal
> paper.  Not quite sure how they can claim there is a "complete absence of 
> a
> deep Earth fingerprint", especially since they point out the low delta-C13
> values in carbonadoes themselves.  The same range of values is seen in
> reduced carbon from both terrestrial and martian igneous rocks, as other
> papers have noted.  Nitrogen has been noted in mantle fluids numerous 
> times
> as well and could easily be the source of the nitrogen in carbonadoes. 
> I've
> never seen "planar defect lamellae" in a carbonado, which this paper
> mentions but doesn't show.  Planar defects can be simply the result of
> strain while buried, and only for silicates have the criteria for
> distinguishing strain-induced lamellae from shock-derived PDF's been
> established.  All of the features of carbonadoes can be explained by
> formation in a deep-Earth environment from carbonaceous fluids or gases 
> with
> the caveat that it would have to be a very reducing environment.  There 
> are
> two comments to be made about that - 1) that very fact has been used to
> explain away the possibility that a natural reactor is the source of
> carbonadoes, and 2) it would be a rare environment, but that is consistent
> with the fact that carbonadoes have basically only been found once in
> Earth's historical record.  It also only requires a casual perusal of the
> mineral record to see examples of extremes of both reducing and oxidizing
> environments in the Earth's crust.
>
> Beyond this note, I'm really too busy to get into this.  Carbonadoes are
> very cool and still mysterious, but I have yet to see a convincing 
> argument
> that they are extraterrestrial.  I've examined a few myself and found them
> to be a marvelous oddity, but a terrestrial oddity.  I certainly wouldn't
> evoke an asteroid-sized diamond impactor to explain them.
>
> Cheers,
> MDF
>
> On 4/10/09 9:28 PM, "Steve Schoner" <schoner at mybluelight.com> wrote:
>
>> Here is the first article by Stephen Haggarty and others:
>>
>> http://www.garai-research.com/research%20statement/carbonado/carbonado-infrare
>> d.htm
>>
>> Looks to be a very compelling argument.
>>
>> Steve.
>>
>> [meteorite-list] Black Diamonds: A interesting PBS NOVA article
>> Paul bristolia at yahoo.com
>> Fri Apr 10 23:15:49 EDT 2009
>>
>>     * Previous message: [meteorite-list] Gamma Ray Burst caused mass
>> extinction? (With URLs to PDF Files)
>>     * Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]
>>
>>
>> Steve Schoner wrote:
>>
>> "Here is a very interesting PBS article on carbonados.
>>
>> http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/diamond/sky2.html "
>>
>> Also look at:
>>
>> Kagi, H. and S. Fukura, 2008, Infrared and Raman spectroscopic
>> observations of Central African carbonado and implications for
>> its origin. European Journal of Mineralogy. vol. 20, no. 3,
>> pp. 387-393, DOI: 10.1127/0935-1221/2008/0020-1817
>> http://eurjmin.geoscienceworld.org/cgi/content/abstract/20/3/387
>>
>> McCall, G.J.H., 2009, The carbonado diamond conundrum.
>> Earth-Science Reviews. vol. 93, no. 3-4, pp. 85&#8211;91.
>> http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.earscirev.2009.01.002
>>
>> Yokochi, R., D. Ohnenstetter, and Y. Sano, 2008, Intragrain
>> Variation in g13C And Nitrogen Concentration Associated
>> with Textural Heterogeneities of Carbonado. The Canadian
>> Mineralogist. vol. 46, no. 5, pp. 1283-1296, DOI: 
>> 10.3749/canmin.46.5.1283
>> http://canmin.geoscienceworld.org/cgi/content/abstract/46/5/1283
>>
>> Diamonds, II: Diamond and Carbonado: Crystal Habits and Surface 
>> Morphology
>> http://www.turnstone.ca/diamond2.htm
>>
>> yours,
>>
>> Paul H.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> Click to become an artist and quit your boring job.
>> http://thirdpartyoffers.mybluelight.com/TGL2341/fc/BLSrjpdioVxJHOzd02wEIlGWRFn
>> laEkt3dBVggRpm7tEJ7xY6i49xaWV4kw/
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus 
> signature database 4002 (20090411) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
> 


From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net  Sun Apr 12 16:02:50 2009
From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2009 15:02:50 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Black Diamonds: A interesting PBS NOVA article
References: <C607878E.76AF%Marc.D.Fries@jpl.nasa.gov>
Message-ID: <82E2FB0B4E6D446DA6DFD88631A397D1@ATARIENGINE2>

Hi, Marc, List,

I'm not competent enough in this area to
have an opinion worth much but I find it
difficult to imagine how a loose, open crystal
structure, amorphous hexacrystalline carbon
could form "naturally" in the titanic pressures
at the depths where diamonds are made; I
always read it was 50 to 90 miles down.

On the other hand, it makes intuitive sense
it should happen in a zero-gee or low-gee
environment even if shock is involved. It also
spoils my picture of somebody landing on a
small asteroid and finding it to be one giant
diamond the size of Manhattan!

Or at least a diamond as big as the Ritz-Carlton
Hotel in Manhattan, a notion about diamond
size that occured long ago to F. Scott Fitzgerald
http://www.readbookonline.net/read/690/10627/
in his story "The Diamond As Big As The Ritz"
(1922).



Sterling K. Webb
-------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Fries, Marc D" <marc.d.fries at jpl.nasa.gov>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2009 1:57 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Black Diamonds: A interesting PBS NOVA 
article


Wish I?d seen this one when it came out; I?d have gladly written a 
rebuttal
paper.  Not quite sure how they can claim there is a "complete absence 
of a
deep Earth fingerprint", especially since they point out the low 
delta-C13
values in carbonadoes themselves.  The same range of values is seen in
reduced carbon from both terrestrial and martian igneous rocks, as other
papers have noted.  Nitrogen has been noted in mantle fluids numerous 
times
as well and could easily be the source of the nitrogen in carbonadoes. 
I've
never seen "planar defect lamellae" in a carbonado, which this paper
mentions but doesn't show.  Planar defects can be simply the result of
strain while buried, and only for silicates have the criteria for
distinguishing strain-induced lamellae from shock-derived PDF's been
established.  All of the features of carbonadoes can be explained by
formation in a deep-Earth environment from carbonaceous fluids or gases 
with
the caveat that it would have to be a very reducing environment.  There 
are
two comments to be made about that - 1) that very fact has been used to
explain away the possibility that a natural reactor is the source of
carbonadoes, and 2) it would be a rare environment, but that is 
consistent
with the fact that carbonadoes have basically only been found once in
Earth's historical record.  It also only requires a casual perusal of 
the
mineral record to see examples of extremes of both reducing and 
oxidizing
environments in the Earth's crust.

Beyond this note, I'm really too busy to get into this.  Carbonadoes are
very cool and still mysterious, but I have yet to see a convincing 
argument
that they are extraterrestrial.  I've examined a few myself and found 
them
to be a marvelous oddity, but a terrestrial oddity.  I certainly 
wouldn't
evoke an asteroid-sized diamond impactor to explain them.

Cheers,
MDF

On 4/10/09 9:28 PM, "Steve Schoner" <schoner at mybluelight.com> wrote:

> Here is the first article by Stephen Haggarty and others:
>
> http://www.garai-research.com/research%20statement/carbonado/carbonado-infrare
> d.htm
>
> Looks to be a very compelling argument.
>
> Steve.
>
> [meteorite-list] Black Diamonds: A interesting PBS NOVA article
> Paul bristolia at yahoo.com
> Fri Apr 10 23:15:49 EDT 2009
>
>     * Previous message: [meteorite-list] Gamma Ray Burst caused mass
> extinction? (With URLs to PDF Files)
>     * Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]
>
>
> Steve Schoner wrote:
>
> "Here is a very interesting PBS article on carbonados.
>
> http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/diamond/sky2.html "
>
> Also look at:
>
> Kagi, H. and S. Fukura, 2008, Infrared and Raman spectroscopic
> observations of Central African carbonado and implications for
> its origin. European Journal of Mineralogy. vol. 20, no. 3,
> pp. 387-393, DOI: 10.1127/0935-1221/2008/0020-1817
> http://eurjmin.geoscienceworld.org/cgi/content/abstract/20/3/387
>
> McCall, G.J.H., 2009, The carbonado diamond conundrum.
> Earth-Science Reviews. vol. 93, no. 3-4, pp. 85&#8211;91.
> http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.earscirev.2009.01.002
>
> Yokochi, R., D. Ohnenstetter, and Y. Sano, 2008, Intragrain
> Variation in g13C And Nitrogen Concentration Associated
> with Textural Heterogeneities of Carbonado. The Canadian
> Mineralogist. vol. 46, no. 5, pp. 1283-1296, DOI: 
> 10.3749/canmin.46.5.1283
> http://canmin.geoscienceworld.org/cgi/content/abstract/46/5/1283
>
> Diamonds, II: Diamond and Carbonado: Crystal Habits and Surface 
> Morphology
> http://www.turnstone.ca/diamond2.htm
>
> yours,
>
> Paul H.
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> Click to become an artist and quit your boring job.
> http://thirdpartyoffers.mybluelight.com/TGL2341/fc/BLSrjpdioVxJHOzd02wEIlGWRFn
> laEkt3dBVggRpm7tEJ7xY6i49xaWV4kw/
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>

______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 


From marcin at meteoryt.net  Sun Apr 12 16:09:50 2009
From: marcin at meteoryt.net (Marcin Cimala)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2009 22:09:50 +0200
Subject: [meteorite-list] PolandMET special - new rare specimens
References: <49DD5BAE.80106@meteorite.com>
Message-ID: <002001c9bbaa$a62ad870$0d00000a@polandmezrd5i9>

Hello List
After 1 month without emails from list Im back.

I have some new & old material but with new and interesting samples.

First of all I want introduce a World class specimen !
Zaklodzie
Primitive Enstatite-rich Achondrite.
258.5gram, 190x125x3 mm full slice !!!!!!
Its one of only 3 full slices from main mass. 
This incredible slice for ONLY 65$/gram !

Camel Donga
Achondrite, Ca-rich Eucrite
Half specimens and complete specimens with glossy black crust !

NWA 4560
Chondrite LL3.1
New slices

NWA 4960
Carbonaceous chondrite CK3
One more slice from main mass with big BLACK INCLUSION !
This is something that You must see :)

NWA 5219
Basaltic Shergottite
Lots of full and part slices from my 26gram Main Mass.
One of the most freshest Martian ever found in NWA area.
Beautifull slices, some with polished cut face !!!!

www.polandmet.com

PS. Some new NWA material very sooooon.

-----[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-----[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]-----
http://www.Meteoryty.pl             marcin(at)meteoryty.pl
http://www.PolandMET.com       marcin(at)meteorite.pl
http://www.Gao-Guenie.com      GSM: +48 (793) kosmos
--------[ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society ]--------




From marcin at meteoryt.net  Sun Apr 12 16:28:40 2009
From: marcin at meteoryt.net (Marcin Cimala)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2009 22:28:40 +0200
Subject: [meteorite-list] PolandMET special - new rare specimens
References: <49DD5BAE.80106@meteorite.com>
	<002001c9bbaa$a62ad870$0d00000a@polandmezrd5i9>
Message-ID: <005d01c9bbad$46f94f50$0d00000a@polandmezrd5i9>

> NWA 4960
> Carbonaceous chondrite CK3
> One more slice from main mass with big BLACK INCLUSION !
> This is something that You must see :)

Im sorry ofcourse there should be NWA 4964 :)

Have a nice and sunny sunday !

-----[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-----[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]-----
http://www.Meteoryty.pl             marcin(at)meteoryty.pl
http://www.PolandMET.com       marcin(at)meteorite.pl
http://www.Gao-Guenie.com      GSM: +48 (793) kosmos
--------[ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society ]--------


From m_graul at yahoo.de  Sun Apr 12 18:41:10 2009
From: m_graul at yahoo.de (Mirko Graul)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2009 22:41:10 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite hunting Denmark - photo story
Message-ID: <49511.61107.qm@web26308.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>


Dear List Members,

i have list on my homepage www.meteorite-mirko.de
a small photo story from the meteorite hunting in Lolland/Denmark.

Here the direct links to the photo pages:

http://www.meteorite-mirko.de/0334af9beb0bbe82e/0334af9beb0b4ac02/index.php

http://www.meteorite-mirko.de/0334af9beb0bbe82e/0334af9beb0ba2618/index.php

http://www.meteorite-mirko.de/0334af9beb0bbe82e/0334af9beb0ba6723/index.php


Best greetings Mirko
    

Mirko Graul Meteorite 
Quittenring.4 
16321 Bernau 
GERMANY 

Phone: 0049-1724105015 
E-Mail: m_graul at yahoo.de 
WEB: www.meteorite-mirko.de 

Member of The Meteoritical Society 
(International Society for Meteoritics and Planetery Science) 

IMCA-Member: 2113 
(International Meteorite Collectors Association)


      

From geeg48 at msn.com  Sun Apr 12 22:14:33 2009
From: geeg48 at msn.com (GREG LINDH)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2009 19:14:33 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Test - Please ignore.
Message-ID: <BLU125-DAV10052B6B63A0E116D84DC6C97F0@phx.gbl>

Test.

From bristolia at yahoo.com  Sun Apr 12 22:23:49 2009
From: bristolia at yahoo.com (Paul)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2009 19:23:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Black Diamonds: A interesting PBS NOVA article
Message-ID: <757237.64780.qm@web36206.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


Personally, I do not know what to think about the
origin of carbonados. I do think that "there is much 
contradictory evidence in the literature" and "This 
is conundrum which still calls for much more research."
to quote from the abstract of: 

McCall, G.J.H., 2009, The carbonado diamond conundrum.
Earth-Science Reviews. vol. 93, no. 3-4, pp. 85-91.
http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.earscirev.2009.01.002

Whatever happened to create carbonados, happened a
very long time ago as discussed by:

Yuji, S., R. Yokochia, K. Teradab, M.L. Chaves, and 
M. Ozimad, 2002, Ion microprobe Pb-Pb dating of 
carbonado, polycrystalline diamond. Precambrian 
Research. vol. 113, no. 1-2, pp. 155-168
http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/S0301-9268(01)00208-X

Some quotes from Yuji et al. (2002).

"Pb?Pb age of mineral inclusions in GM01 carbonado,
3.3+/-0.7 Ga is older than the formation age of the 
Sopa conglomerate in carbonado-bearing deposit 
related to the first extensional event in southeast 
border of the Sao Francisco craton at 1750?1700 Ma 
(Uhlein et al., 1998). Therefore, the carbonados 
were originated somewhere else and later incorporated 
in the Sopa conglomerate."

"Mineral inclusions (rutile, florencite, quartz, 
zircon, and clay minerals) of GM01 and DO3 
carbonados are typically crustal. The upper mantle 
origin of the carbonados may be, therefore, ruled out."

"In addition we can not find any evidence of high 
pressure shock-metamorphism such as occurrence 
of coesite based on the mineral assemblage of the 
carbonado inclusions. Therefore, the early impact 
origin of the carbonados is probably excluded."

"207Pb/206Pb isochron age of DO3 carbonado
matrix is consistent with that of Central African 
carbonado reported by other workers, suggesting 
a close genetic relationship between Brazilian and 
African carbonados within a united landmass 
during the Archean, as supported by 3.6 Ga zircons 
observed in the conglomerate.

With the contradictory evidence for their origin, 
the lack of any carbonados being found in place where
they formed, and their great age, it might be very 
difficult to understand exactly how they formed. 
Because of their great age and having been eroded
and redeposited from the parent strata in which they
either form in place or accumulated as debris from
some extraterrestrial event means a lot of the 
critical evidence concerning their origin has been 
lost.

Yours,

Paul H.


      

From mikewren at gilanet.com  Sun Apr 12 22:30:31 2009
From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2009 19:30:31 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Anyone up for some trading???
Message-ID: <D97302E9-A7F0-496F-9DF3-003A47A9B74C@gilanet.com>

Hello,

I was getting ready to go out the door on another expedition, but I am  
delayed for a couple of days. I am wondering if anyone is up for some  
trading?? Take a look at my ebay store and if there is something of  
interest for you run it by me and I will see if we can trade?!?!?

Thanks and Best Wishes

Michael Cottingham

http://stores.ebay.com/voyage-botanica-natural-history



From casper at cooloola.net  Mon Apr 13 00:19:15 2009
From: casper at cooloola.net (christopher sharp)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 14:19:15 +1000
Subject: [meteorite-list] interesting meteorite and NIPR memoirs
Message-ID: <EF51B1D3CF77451388A98AEE01D849C6@blueberry>



Gem like meteorite

http://www.saharamet.com/meteorite/gallery/R119.html


Access to Japan's National Institute of Polar Research "memoirs"
Describing the discovery of the blue ice meteorite fields in Antarctica

http://www.nipr.ac.jp/~library/publication/Memoir.html#Anchor530343






From parkforestmet at hotmail.com  Mon Apr 13 01:23:28 2009
From: parkforestmet at hotmail.com (bill kies)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 00:23:28 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Anyone up for some trading???
Message-ID: <SNT102-W58CC313E89D08B852C4D39A27F0@phx.gbl>


Put an ad on it cottingham and remember that whatever side of the door you're on, it's one meteorite ad a week.
_________________________________________________________________
Rediscover Hotmail?: Now available on your iPhone or BlackBerry
http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Mobile1_042009

From mikewren at gilanet.com  Mon Apr 13 01:29:21 2009
From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2009 22:29:21 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Anyone up for some trading???
References: <D97302E9-A7F0-496F-9DF3-003A47A9B74C@gilanet.com>
Message-ID: <97831264-3CDC-4BC1-9D81-8E639842DD79@gilanet.com>




>
> Hello,
>
> I was getting ready to go out the door on another expedition, but I  
> am delayed for a couple of days. I am wondering if anyone is up for  
> some trading?? Take a look at my ebay store and if there is  
> something of interest for you run it by me and I will see if we can  
> trade?!?!?
>
> Thanks and Best Wishes
>
> Michael Cottingham
>
> http://stores.ebay.com/voyage-botanica-natural-history
>
>


From erikfwebb at msn.com  Mon Apr 13 02:21:58 2009
From: erikfwebb at msn.com (Erik Fisler)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2009 23:21:58 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Holbrook Easter Hunt (80.7g's)
Message-ID: <COL119-W51409B25F083070BCCC8B2A47F0@phx.gbl>



This weekend my father and I hunted Holbrook for an Easter egg hunt.
In fact, we actually saw the Easter Bunny.

Highlights:
I found 34 chondrites for a total of 69.7g's
Photo:http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/?action=view?t=ErikTotal.jpg

My dad found 10 chondrites for a total of 11.2g's
Photo:http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/?action=view?t=DadTotal.jpg


On the way up to Flagstaff we drove through an area
that had recently received snow. Here is a video
of this strange phenomena(strange to us desert rats).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73iGgfUyPUQ


The weather at Holbrook Saturday was cold, cloudy, windy and
occasionally, rainy/snowy.
Despite the terrible weather we found 2 individuals within
20 feet of each other. My dad's find was a 3.2g individual
with 85% crust and my find was an oriented shield with flow lines
that was a 4.1g individual. We documented our double whammy in
this clip.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsppC_faMg8


An hour or so later I found 20.9g in quite a few
fragments. The largest is 11.1g's. Here is the clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_9d-phJDQY

After finding an individual I called my dad over to
view my find and while he was fondling the individual
I noticed he had a small complete individual stuck
to his magnet and he didn't even notice! Crazy!

We hunted till about noon with
great success and went back to the truck for a lunch break.
Here is a video of our finds before lunch.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xx98yRvqK3E

Sunday morning, right off the bat, my dad found one very
nice complete individual and he video taped it insitu here
in this clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEFUusagJEQ

Along with our countless meteorites we also found
several of the raw glass marbles that had been uncovered
by the rain. I also found an old range rifle .32-40 round
that someone had dropped a looonngg time ago.
here are some of the photo's.
http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/?action=view?t=Relics.jpg
http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/?action=view?t=RawGlass.jpg
http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/?action=view?t=32-40JPG.jpg

We were blown away by the number of finds we made and how gorgeous
they all were. The excitement was incredible. It took forever
to clean and weigh each specimen and we are lucky to have made out
with the number of find that we did.
The strewn field is only 1 mile by half a mile but we walked for
miles and miles in circles and covered almost the entire field! 
My feet are throbbing!

Thank you Eric for the support!
Also if anyone would like clearer footage than the crappy YouTube flash format,
we have the original files that I can email to anyone, just email me
at erikfwebb at msn.com if interested.
 
Enjoy!
 
[Erik]

From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com  Mon Apr 13 06:36:59 2009
From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 06:36:59 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - April 13,
	2009
Message-ID: <c73.4db4b11b.37146fcb@aol.com>

http://www.rocksfromspace.org/April_13_2009.html
http://www.rocksfromspace.org

__________________________  

**************The Average US Credit Score is 692. See Yours in Just 2 Easy 
Steps! 
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221621489x1201450100/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26h
mpgID%3D62%26bcd%3DAprilAvgfooterNO62)

From grf2 at verizon.net  Mon Apr 13 08:17:20 2009
From: grf2 at verizon.net (Jerry Flaherty)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 08:17:20 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] interesting meteorite and NIPR memoirs
References: <EF51B1D3CF77451388A98AEE01D849C6@blueberry>
Message-ID: <1F6AFA665EB8497691D984EB7ECCFF5D@ASUS>

Beautiful. Pallasite??
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "christopher sharp" <casper at cooloola.net>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 12:19 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] interesting meteorite and NIPR memoirs


> 
> 
> Gem like meteorite
> 
> http://www.saharamet.com/meteorite/gallery/R119.html
> 
> 
> Access to Japan's National Institute of Polar Research "memoirs"
> Describing the discovery of the blue ice meteorite fields in Antarctica
> 
> http://www.nipr.ac.jp/~library/publication/Memoir.html#Anchor530343
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

From info at meteorites.com.au  Mon Apr 13 08:20:03 2009
From: info at meteorites.com.au (Jeff Kuyken)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 22:20:03 +1000
Subject: [meteorite-list] interesting meteorite and NIPR memoirs
In-Reply-To: <1F6AFA665EB8497691D984EB7ECCFF5D@ASUS>
References: <EF51B1D3CF77451388A98AEE01D849C6@blueberry>
	<1F6AFA665EB8497691D984EB7ECCFF5D@ASUS>
Message-ID: <F07B9BB1E6CA4F3AB47C65F64444B7E6@JeffPC>

Hey Jerry,

My guess would be a relatively fresh Ureilite with the metal veinlets and 
megacrysts but that's just a guess. Does anyone know if this was ever 
classified and published?

Cheers,

Jeff


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jerry Flaherty" <grf2 at verizon.net>
To: "christopher sharp" <casper at cooloola.net>; 
<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 10:17 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] interesting meteorite and NIPR memoirs


> Beautiful. Pallasite??
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "christopher sharp" <casper at cooloola.net>
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 12:19 AM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] interesting meteorite and NIPR memoirs
>
>
>>
>>
>> Gem like meteorite
>>
>> http://www.saharamet.com/meteorite/gallery/R119.html
>>
>>
>> Access to Japan's National Institute of Polar Research "memoirs"
>> Describing the discovery of the blue ice meteorite fields in Antarctica
>>
>> http://www.nipr.ac.jp/~library/publication/Memoir.html#Anchor530343
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> 


From mpg444 at yahoo.com  Mon Apr 13 08:34:23 2009
From: mpg444 at yahoo.com (Mike Groetz)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 05:34:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Anyone up for some trading???
Message-ID: <781101.76324.qm@web33002.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


   Nice of this guy to post his pompous and arrogant comment not only to Mike but also to grandstand to the entire list.
   Another one entered into my email "blocked list".

--- On Mon, 4/13/09, bill kies <parkforestmet at hotmail.com> wrote:

> From: bill kies <parkforestmet at hotmail.com>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Anyone up for some trading???
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Cc: mikewren at gilanet.com
> Date: Monday, April 13, 2009, 1:23 AM
> 
> Put an ad on it cottingham and remember that whatever side
> of the door you're on, it's one meteorite ad a week.
> _________________________________________________________________
> Rediscover Hotmail?: Now available on your iPhone or
> BlackBerry
> http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Mobile1_042009
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      

From cynapse at charter.net  Mon Apr 13 11:21:16 2009
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 10:21:16 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Biggest West heads north
In-Reply-To: <COL119-W51409B25F083070BCCC8B2A47F0@phx.gbl>
References: <COL119-W51409B25F083070BCCC8B2A47F0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <5tl6u4d2huheb39mascn7vh36k3goou975@4ax.com>

Hope they don't drop a car on it:

http://www.kansascity.com/news/local/story/1136629.html


Hill County residents find largest rock yet from local meteorite shower

http://www.wacotrib.com/news/content/news/stories/2009/04/12/04122009wacmeteorite.html

By Ken SuryTribune-Herald staff writer

Sunday, April 12, 2009

MENLOW ? The biggest piece discovered from the Feb. 15 meteor that broke apart
near West now sits in a meteorite museum in Kansas, its owner happy to have
acquired the space rock as well as the trust of the Hill County couple who found
it and sold it to him.

L.B. and Polly Etter were in church the Sunday morning when the fireball cut
across the Texas skies. They didn?t hear the accompanying sonic boom that
rattled houses around West. It was 11 days after the fall that L.B. Etter was
driving his tractor along his farmland in Menlow, just west of Interstate 35 and
Abbott, when he spotted something out of the ordinary.

?I?ve cut and bailed this patch of hay for years, so I knew that was something
that wasn?t supposed to be there,? the 77-year-old farmer and rancher said.

Etter had followed the news reports about the meteorite finds near West, but
that was about seven to eight miles southeast ?as the crow flies? from his
place. Still, he kept the nearly 4-pound stony meteorite, dumping it in the back
of his pickup to go on a fertilizer run to West.

Women working at the fertilizer plant remarked that it was indeed a meteorite,
and when L.B. returned home, his wife, Polly, wrapped it up in a towel for
safekeeping.

L.B. Etter then called some of the meteorite hunters and collectors who had
advertisements in the West News seeking to buy pieces.

Etter?s find ? at 1,700 grams ? is about 200 grams heavier than the next-largest
rock that was purchased by meteorite hunter Mike Farmer of Tucson, Ariz. Farmer
was among about 10 people initially interested in the chondrite. But it wasn?t
until last week when L.B. and Polly Etter agreed to sell it to Kansas meteorite
museum owner Don Stimpson for an undisclosed price.

Farmer earlier had purchased his slightly smaller meteorite ? he was told it was
found near Aquilla ? for more than $10,000, though he also declined to provide
an exact figure. Stimpson said he knows of one other large piece from the ?main
mass? that another meteorite hunter has purchased.

While all of the meteorite hunters were pleasant to deal with, Stimpson just
stood out, L.B. Etter said.

?He just seemed to be more down-to-Earth to me,? he said.

Stimpson and his wife, Sheila Knepper, own the Kansas Meteorite Museum and
Nature Center in southern Kansas. The museum?s claim to fame is that it houses
the largest display of meteorites from a prehistoric fall near the now-defunct
town of Brenham, Kan. The Brenham fall has the rarest of meteorites, a
stony-iron mix called a pallasite.

Even though the West meteorite, as it is being called, is a chondrite, which is
the most common type of stony meteorite, Stimpson said he is thrilled to have it
because it?s something new for his museum.

?It?s a nice, pristine sample,? said Stimpson, adding that though it was found
11 days after the fall, no rain had fallen on it and it had not weathered. The
pallasite fragments of the Brenham meteorite were dug out of the ground and
often have significant rust, he noted.

?A few months ago this rock was thousands of miles in space, farther away than
the moon, and now here it is, just as it was found on the ground, with a surface
of black, melted rock and sculpted dimples forged in a fireball,? said Stimpson,
who was a biophysicist in Chicago before his interest in meteorites became a
full-blown passion and second career.

The largest pieces, like the Etters? find in Menlow, will be west of I-35,
Stimpson said. When a meteorite breaks up and scatters pieces across an
oval-shaped ?strewn field,? the smallest pieces land first. The bigger fragments
with greater mass are at the end of the field. Birome appears to be the front
end of the fall with pea- and pecan-sized fragments, Stimpson said, with Menlow
at the back of the strewn field.

Large pieces like the Etters? rock could be acres apart from each other,
Stimpson said. For now, the Etters? chondrite has the distinction of being the
largest from the West fall. It is on display in the Kansas museum, but Stimpson
said he hopes to bring it back to West for an exhibition with other West
meteorite fragments at a future date.

He?s been in initial talks, but nothing is finalized.

Stimpson expects there will be more discoveries, but the Etters haven?t heard of
anyone else in their area finding meteorites. Stimpson admitted that to most
people, it just looks like a black rock.  

?Some large pieces may be found, but with the vegetation starting to grow,
searching will be difficult, and rusting will begin, but the material is still
valuable and worth collecting,? Stimpson said. ?More specimens will probably be
found during fall planting.?

L.B. Etter said he?ll be scanning his property a little more closely in the days
to come.

?If I see a black rock now, I?ll stop and look at it,? he said.

From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Mon Apr 13 10:47:40 2009
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 09:47:40 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Biggest West heads north
In-Reply-To: <5tl6u4d2huheb39mascn7vh36k3goou975@4ax.com>
References: <COL119-W51409B25F083070BCCC8B2A47F0@phx.gbl>
	<5tl6u4d2huheb39mascn7vh36k3goou975@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <e51421550904130747n7d712e02n2fb693dc0b13bd21@mail.gmail.com>

Don is a class guy.  I'm glad he got it. :)

Congratulations Don.



On 4/13/09, Darren Garrison <cynapse at charter.net> wrote:
> Hope they don't drop a car on it:
>
> http://www.kansascity.com/news/local/story/1136629.html
>
>
> Hill County residents find largest rock yet from local meteorite shower
>
> http://www.wacotrib.com/news/content/news/stories/2009/04/12/04122009wacmeteorite.html
>
> By Ken SuryTribune-Herald staff writer
>
> Sunday, April 12, 2009
>
> MENLOW ? The biggest piece discovered from the Feb. 15 meteor that broke
> apart
> near West now sits in a meteorite museum in Kansas, its owner happy to have
> acquired the space rock as well as the trust of the Hill County couple who
> found
> it and sold it to him.
>
> L.B. and Polly Etter were in church the Sunday morning when the fireball cut
> across the Texas skies. They didn?t hear the accompanying sonic boom that
> rattled houses around West. It was 11 days after the fall that L.B. Etter
> was
> driving his tractor along his farmland in Menlow, just west of Interstate 35
> and
> Abbott, when he spotted something out of the ordinary.
>
> ?I?ve cut and bailed this patch of hay for years, so I knew that was
> something
> that wasn?t supposed to be there,? the 77-year-old farmer and rancher said.
>
> Etter had followed the news reports about the meteorite finds near West, but
> that was about seven to eight miles southeast ?as the crow flies? from his
> place. Still, he kept the nearly 4-pound stony meteorite, dumping it in the
> back
> of his pickup to go on a fertilizer run to West.
>
> Women working at the fertilizer plant remarked that it was indeed a
> meteorite,
> and when L.B. returned home, his wife, Polly, wrapped it up in a towel for
> safekeeping.
>
> L.B. Etter then called some of the meteorite hunters and collectors who had
> advertisements in the West News seeking to buy pieces.
>
> Etter?s find ? at 1,700 grams ? is about 200 grams heavier than the
> next-largest
> rock that was purchased by meteorite hunter Mike Farmer of Tucson, Ariz.
> Farmer
> was among about 10 people initially interested in the chondrite. But it
> wasn?t
> until last week when L.B. and Polly Etter agreed to sell it to Kansas
> meteorite
> museum owner Don Stimpson for an undisclosed price.
>
> Farmer earlier had purchased his slightly smaller meteorite ? he was told it
> was
> found near Aquilla ? for more than $10,000, though he also declined to
> provide
> an exact figure. Stimpson said he knows of one other large piece from the
> ?main
> mass? that another meteorite hunter has purchased.
>
> While all of the meteorite hunters were pleasant to deal with, Stimpson just
> stood out, L.B. Etter said.
>
> ?He just seemed to be more down-to-Earth to me,? he said.
>
> Stimpson and his wife, Sheila Knepper, own the Kansas Meteorite Museum and
> Nature Center in southern Kansas. The museum?s claim to fame is that it
> houses
> the largest display of meteorites from a prehistoric fall near the
> now-defunct
> town of Brenham, Kan. The Brenham fall has the rarest of meteorites, a
> stony-iron mix called a pallasite.
>
> Even though the West meteorite, as it is being called, is a chondrite, which
> is
> the most common type of stony meteorite, Stimpson said he is thrilled to
> have it
> because it?s something new for his museum.
>
> ?It?s a nice, pristine sample,? said Stimpson, adding that though it was
> found
> 11 days after the fall, no rain had fallen on it and it had not weathered.
> The
> pallasite fragments of the Brenham meteorite were dug out of the ground and
> often have significant rust, he noted.
>
> ?A few months ago this rock was thousands of miles in space, farther away
> than
> the moon, and now here it is, just as it was found on the ground, with a
> surface
> of black, melted rock and sculpted dimples forged in a fireball,? said
> Stimpson,
> who was a biophysicist in Chicago before his interest in meteorites became a
> full-blown passion and second career.
>
> The largest pieces, like the Etters? find in Menlow, will be west of I-35,
> Stimpson said. When a meteorite breaks up and scatters pieces across an
> oval-shaped ?strewn field,? the smallest pieces land first. The bigger
> fragments
> with greater mass are at the end of the field. Birome appears to be the
> front
> end of the fall with pea- and pecan-sized fragments, Stimpson said, with
> Menlow
> at the back of the strewn field.
>
> Large pieces like the Etters? rock could be acres apart from each other,
> Stimpson said. For now, the Etters? chondrite has the distinction of being
> the
> largest from the West fall. It is on display in the Kansas museum, but
> Stimpson
> said he hopes to bring it back to West for an exhibition with other West
> meteorite fragments at a future date.
>
> He?s been in initial talks, but nothing is finalized.
>
> Stimpson expects there will be more discoveries, but the Etters haven?t
> heard of
> anyone else in their area finding meteorites. Stimpson admitted that to most
> people, it just looks like a black rock.
>
> ?Some large pieces may be found, but with the vegetation starting to grow,
> searching will be difficult, and rusting will begin, but the material is
> still
> valuable and worth collecting,? Stimpson said. ?More specimens will probably
> be
> found during fall planting.?
>
> L.B. Etter said he?ll be scanning his property a little more closely in the
> days
> to come.
>
> ?If I see a black rock now, I?ll stop and look at it,? he said.
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


-- 
.........................................................
Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA)
Member of the Meteoritical Society.
Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network.
Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com
..........................................................

From GeoZay at aol.com  Mon Apr 13 10:57:50 2009
From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 10:57:50 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Biggest West heads north
Message-ID: <c2f.514a38ca.3714acee@aol.com>

>>Don is a class guy.  I'm glad he  got it. :)<<

It seems that it's not likely to be cut up...and this  I'm glad for. 
GeoZay  

**************Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the 
web. Get the Radio Toolbar! 
(http://toolbar.aol.com/aolradio/download.html?ncid=emlweusdown00000035&ncid=emlcntusdown00000002)

From marcin at meteoryt.net  Mon Apr 13 11:02:34 2009
From: marcin at meteoryt.net (Marcin Cimala)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 17:02:34 +0200
Subject: [meteorite-list] Biggest West heads north
References: <c2f.514a38ca.3714acee@aol.com>
Message-ID: <015401c9bc48$e0e549c0$0d00000a@polandmezrd5i9>

> It seems that it's not likely to be cut up...and this  I'm glad for. 
> GeoZay  

Im a bit outdated with the news.
Anyone have photos of large cut surface of West ?
Im sure its very nice breccia and I like to see it.
Thanks

-----[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-----[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]-----
http://www.Meteoryty.pl             marcin(at)meteoryty.pl
http://www.PolandMET.com       marcin(at)meteorite.pl
http://www.Gao-Guenie.com      GSM: +48 (793) kosmos
--------[ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society ]--------


From schoner at mybluelight.com  Mon Apr 13 11:22:49 2009
From: schoner at mybluelight.com (Steve Schoner)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 15:22:49 GMT
Subject: [meteorite-list]  Black Diamonds: A interesting PBS NOVA 	article
Message-ID: <20090413.092249.10320.1@webmail04.dca.untd.com>

Paul,

Right.   And the fact that they occur only in two places on earth and are found no where else, further complicates the issue.

I think that the Earth and moon were asteroid bombarded very intensely in two prolonged events. 2.9 and 3.7 billion years ago.   And this leads to me really wonder about these carbonado diamonds that are so distinct from the others which were clearly formed in the Earth's upper mantle.   The fact that these have an odd amorphous polycrystalline structure and are tougher than the normal terrestrial diamonds makes me wonder more about their origins, too.

Steve Schoner
IMCA 4470

P.S.  I noticed that these are suddenly selling on ebay from the best and till now only supplier of carbonados (aaaroughy).    One must watch out though, as the term "carbonado" is a term used loosely in the diamond trade.   To most legit diamond dealers all dark, brown to black diamonds are "carbonado."    The distinction for a true carbonado is its porous structure which is clearly evident to the eye either directly or under magnification.


------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2009 19:23:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: Paul <bristolia at yahoo.com>
Subject: [meteorite-list] Black Diamonds: A interesting PBS NOVA
	article
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Message-ID: <757237.64780.qm at web36206.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8


Personally, I do not know what to think about the
origin of carbonados. I do think that "there is much 
contradictory evidence in the literature" and "This 
is conundrum which still calls for much more research."
to quote from the abstract of: 

McCall, G.J.H., 2009, The carbonado diamond conundrum.
Earth-Science Reviews. vol. 93, no. 3-4, pp. 85-91.
http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.earscirev.2009.01.002

Whatever happened to create carbonados, happened a
very long time ago as discussed by:

Yuji, S., R. Yokochia, K. Teradab, M.L. Chaves, and 
M. Ozimad, 2002, Ion microprobe Pb-Pb dating of 
carbonado, polycrystalline diamond. Precambrian 
Research. vol. 113, no. 1-2, pp. 155-168
http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/S0301-9268(01)00208-X

Some quotes from Yuji et al. (2002).

"Pb?Pb age of mineral inclusions in GM01 carbonado,
3.3+/-0.7 Ga is older than the formation age of the 
Sopa conglomerate in carbonado-bearing deposit 
related to the first extensional event in southeast 
border of the Sao Francisco craton at 1750?1700 Ma 
(Uhlein et al., 1998). Therefore, the carbonados 
were originated somewhere else and later incorporated 
in the Sopa conglomerate."

"Mineral inclusions (rutile, florencite, quartz, 
zircon, and clay minerals) of GM01 and DO3 
carbonados are typically crustal. The upper mantle 
origin of the carbonados may be, therefore, ruled out."

"In addition we can not find any evidence of high 
pressure shock-metamorphism such as occurrence 
of coesite based on the mineral assemblage of the 
carbonado inclusions. Therefore, the early impact 
origin of the carbonados is probably excluded."

"207Pb/206Pb isochron age of DO3 carbonado
matrix is consistent with that of Central African 
carbonado reported by other workers, suggesting 
a close genetic relationship between Brazilian and 
African carbonados within a united landmass 
during the Archean, as supported by 3.6 Ga zircons 
observed in the conglomerate.

With the contradictory evidence for their origin, 
the lack of any carbonados being found in place where
they formed, and their great age, it might be very 
difficult to understand exactly how they formed. 
Because of their great age and having been eroded
and redeposited from the parent strata in which they
either form in place or accumulated as debris from
some extraterrestrial event means a lot of the 
critical evidence concerning their origin has been 
lost.

Yours,

Paul H.

____________________________________________________________
Click to find schools offering certificate programs.
http://thirdpartyoffers.mybluelight.com/TGL2341/fc/BLSrjpdrbsmuB68xeyVrARQiTyZ0rn2wZ9rfKyNoClWYOpqgMAL9ZaOZGNq/

From stanleygregr at yahoo.com  Mon Apr 13 11:25:18 2009
From: stanleygregr at yahoo.com (greg stanley)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 08:25:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Austin Video
Message-ID: <871639.19285.qm@web52311.mail.re2.yahoo.com>



http://www.news8austin.com/content/headlines/?ArID=237666&SecID=2




Planetarium honors photojournalist's meteorite video
4/12/2009 12:18 PM
By: News 8 Austin Staff

A piece of footage got national attention, and last night, it got News 8 photojournalist Eddie Garcia an award at a star-studded evening.

		
	Parts of the meteorite were found scattered around Texas. 	 	
The video was shot by Garcia during the Austin Marathon Feb. 15, and was first thought to be satellite debris but later it was discovered to be a meteorite falling to earth.

Parts of the meteorite were found scattered around Texas.

Garcia's footage was honored by the Austin Planetarium and News 8 was given a plaque with mounted pieces of the meteorite.

Organizers of the event said Garcia's footage was a once in a lifetime opportunity.

"Sometimes we hit something bigger, and this one was indeed a lot bigger," Austin Planetarium Executive Director Torvald Hessel said. "And we were able to see it during daylight, and that made it very special. What made it incredibly special was that it was caught on camera."

The footage captured by Garcia is believed to be the only news footage of the meteorite caught on tape.

Saturday night's event wrapped up with both a silent and live auction to raise money for the planetarium. 


- Greg Stanley



      

From marc.d.fries at jpl.nasa.gov  Mon Apr 13 11:27:21 2009
From: marc.d.fries at jpl.nasa.gov (Fries, Marc D)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 08:27:21 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Black Diamonds: A interesting PBS NOVA article
In-Reply-To: <82E2FB0B4E6D446DA6DFD88631A397D1@ATARIENGINE2>
Message-ID: <C608A7E9.76F0%Marc.D.Fries@jpl.nasa.gov>

Howdy Stirling

    You get nanocrystalline diamond from nitrogen in the source
gases/liquids.  This happens because nitrogen will substitute for carbon in
the diamond crystal lattice, but it brings an extra electron with it.  The
crystal solves that problem by incorporating a vacancy defect for every
nitrogen defect.  Add enough nitrogen and you wind up with diamond that is
loaded with defects and won't grow large, clear crystals - exactly what you
see with carbonadoes.  Nitrogen also multiplies the growth rate and the
nucleation density, so the whole thing grows quickly as diamond goes - as
much as mm's per hour.  Note that that growth rate most likely discounts
formation in the initial fireball after a large impact.  It also doesn't
matter how the diamonds are made - nitrogen will have the same effect.

    Carbonadoes are very cool.  They're also maddening, because we've got a
lot of data about them but there are multiple reasonable explanations for
most of their attributes!  I'm glad to see all this interest in them, and
I'm pretty confident that someone will "solve" them in my lifetime.

    Now, back to my place at the oars...

Cheers,
MDF 


On 4/12/09 1:02 PM, "Sterling K. Webb" <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net>
wrote:

> Hi, Marc, List,
> 
> I'm not competent enough in this area to
> have an opinion worth much but I find it
> difficult to imagine how a loose, open crystal
> structure, amorphous hexacrystalline carbon
> could form "naturally" in the titanic pressures
> at the depths where diamonds are made; I
> always read it was 50 to 90 miles down.
> 
> On the other hand, it makes intuitive sense
> it should happen in a zero-gee or low-gee
> environment even if shock is involved. It also
> spoils my picture of somebody landing on a
> small asteroid and finding it to be one giant
> diamond the size of Manhattan!
> 
> Or at least a diamond as big as the Ritz-Carlton
> Hotel in Manhattan, a notion about diamond
> size that occured long ago to F. Scott Fitzgerald
> http://www.readbookonline.net/read/690/10627/
> in his story "The Diamond As Big As The Ritz"
> (1922).
> 
> 
> 
> Sterling K. Webb
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Fries, Marc D" <marc.d.fries at jpl.nasa.gov>
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2009 1:57 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Black Diamonds: A interesting PBS NOVA
> article
> 
> 
> Wish I?d seen this one when it came out; I?d have gladly written a
> rebuttal
> paper.  Not quite sure how they can claim there is a "complete absence
> of a
> deep Earth fingerprint", especially since they point out the low
> delta-C13
> values in carbonadoes themselves.  The same range of values is seen in
> reduced carbon from both terrestrial and martian igneous rocks, as other
> papers have noted.  Nitrogen has been noted in mantle fluids numerous
> times
> as well and could easily be the source of the nitrogen in carbonadoes.
> I've
> never seen "planar defect lamellae" in a carbonado, which this paper
> mentions but doesn't show.  Planar defects can be simply the result of
> strain while buried, and only for silicates have the criteria for
> distinguishing strain-induced lamellae from shock-derived PDF's been
> established.  All of the features of carbonadoes can be explained by
> formation in a deep-Earth environment from carbonaceous fluids or gases
> with
> the caveat that it would have to be a very reducing environment.  There
> are
> two comments to be made about that - 1) that very fact has been used to
> explain away the possibility that a natural reactor is the source of
> carbonadoes, and 2) it would be a rare environment, but that is
> consistent
> with the fact that carbonadoes have basically only been found once in
> Earth's historical record.  It also only requires a casual perusal of
> the
> mineral record to see examples of extremes of both reducing and
> oxidizing
> environments in the Earth's crust.
> 
> Beyond this note, I'm really too busy to get into this.  Carbonadoes are
> very cool and still mysterious, but I have yet to see a convincing
> argument
> that they are extraterrestrial.  I've examined a few myself and found
> them
> to be a marvelous oddity, but a terrestrial oddity.  I certainly
> wouldn't
> evoke an asteroid-sized diamond impactor to explain them.
> 
> Cheers,
> MDF
> 
> On 4/10/09 9:28 PM, "Steve Schoner" <schoner at mybluelight.com> wrote:
> 
>> Here is the first article by Stephen Haggarty and others:
>> 
>> 
http://www.garai-research.com/research%20statement/carbonado/carbonado-infrar>>
e
>> d.htm
>> 
>> Looks to be a very compelling argument.
>> 
>> Steve.
>> 
>> [meteorite-list] Black Diamonds: A interesting PBS NOVA article
>> Paul bristolia at yahoo.com
>> Fri Apr 10 23:15:49 EDT 2009
>> 
>>     * Previous message: [meteorite-list] Gamma Ray Burst caused mass
>> extinction? (With URLs to PDF Files)
>>     * Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]
>> 
>> 
>> Steve Schoner wrote:
>> 
>> "Here is a very interesting PBS article on carbonados.
>> 
>> http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/diamond/sky2.html "
>> 
>> Also look at:
>> 
>> Kagi, H. and S. Fukura, 2008, Infrared and Raman spectroscopic
>> observations of Central African carbonado and implications for
>> its origin. European Journal of Mineralogy. vol. 20, no. 3,
>> pp. 387-393, DOI: 10.1127/0935-1221/2008/0020-1817
>> http://eurjmin.geoscienceworld.org/cgi/content/abstract/20/3/387
>> 
>> McCall, G.J.H., 2009, The carbonado diamond conundrum.
>> Earth-Science Reviews. vol. 93, no. 3-4, pp. 85&#8211;91.
>> http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.earscirev.2009.01.002
>> 
>> Yokochi, R., D. Ohnenstetter, and Y. Sano, 2008, Intragrain
>> Variation in g13C And Nitrogen Concentration Associated
>> with Textural Heterogeneities of Carbonado. The Canadian
>> Mineralogist. vol. 46, no. 5, pp. 1283-1296, DOI:
>> 10.3749/canmin.46.5.1283
>> http://canmin.geoscienceworld.org/cgi/content/abstract/46/5/1283
>> 
>> Diamonds, II: Diamond and Carbonado: Crystal Habits and Surface
>> Morphology
>> http://www.turnstone.ca/diamond2.htm
>> 
>> yours,
>> 
>> Paul H.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> Click to become an artist and quit your boring job.
>> 
http://thirdpartyoffers.mybluelight.com/TGL2341/fc/BLSrjpdioVxJHOzd02wEIlGWRF>>
n
>> laEkt3dBVggRpm7tEJ7xY6i49xaWV4kw/
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 
> 


From erikfwebb at msn.com  Mon Apr 13 12:35:20 2009
From: erikfwebb at msn.com (Erik Fisler)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 09:35:20 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Holbrook BAD LINKS
In-Reply-To: <34c0c5310904130559h96c8c1cpcba663cdac5b5a06@mail.gmail.com>
References: <34c0c5310904130559h96c8c1cpcba663cdac5b5a06@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <COL119-W6366C206C04015CB52085BA47F0@phx.gbl>


the links to photobucket were bad.
here are the ones that work:
http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/?action=view&current=DadTotal.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/ErikTotal.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/Relics.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/RawGlass.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/32-40JPG.jpg
 
Thanks for the feedback!!!
Keep searching holbrook till you learn to
read the wind. 
[Erik]


----------------------------------------
> Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 07:59:54 -0500
> Subject: Holbrook
> From: stlouismeteorites at gmail.com
> To: erikfwebb at msn.com
>
> Hi Erik,
>
> Congratulations on your finds! My son and I hunted for several hours
> and didn't find anything last February, and I tried again on my way
> home from Tucson and again no luck. We'll try again next year.
>
> Karl

From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Mon Apr 13 12:49:51 2009
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 11:49:51 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Holbrook BAD LINKS
In-Reply-To: <COL119-W6366C206C04015CB52085BA47F0@phx.gbl>
References: <34c0c5310904130559h96c8c1cpcba663cdac5b5a06@mail.gmail.com>
	<COL119-W6366C206C04015CB52085BA47F0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <e51421550904130949r64ff649bocbbaedfafa31da4c@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Erik!

WOW!  What a haul. :)

Congratulations and thanks for sharing it.

BTW - save some for the rest of us! ;) LOL

Best regards,

MikeG

On 4/13/09, Erik Fisler <erikfwebb at msn.com> wrote:
>
> the links to photobucket were bad.
> here are the ones that work:
> http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/?action=view&current=DadTotal.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/ErikTotal.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/Relics.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/RawGlass.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/32-40JPG.jpg
>
> Thanks for the feedback!!!
> Keep searching holbrook till you learn to
> read the wind.
> [Erik]
>
>
> ----------------------------------------
>> Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 07:59:54 -0500
>> Subject: Holbrook
>> From: stlouismeteorites at gmail.com
>> To: erikfwebb at msn.com
>>
>> Hi Erik,
>>
>> Congratulations on your finds! My son and I hunted for several hours
>> and didn't find anything last February, and I tried again on my way
>> home from Tucson and again no luck. We'll try again next year.
>>
>> Karl
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


-- 
.........................................................
Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA)
Member of the Meteoritical Society.
Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network.
Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com
..........................................................

From erikfwebb at msn.com  Mon Apr 13 14:20:09 2009
From: erikfwebb at msn.com (Erik Fisler)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 11:20:09 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Holbrook BAD LINKS
In-Reply-To: <e51421550904130949r64ff649bocbbaedfafa31da4c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <34c0c5310904130559h96c8c1cpcba663cdac5b5a06@mail.gmail.com>
	<COL119-W6366C206C04015CB52085BA47F0@phx.gbl> 
	<e51421550904130949r64ff649bocbbaedfafa31da4c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <COL119-W7177C5BE6D128F691B6207A47F0@phx.gbl>


Thank you Mike. 
I would leave some for everyone else
except no one is ever out there!
It's almost exclusive.
If no one is going to pick them up,
I will!
 
[Erik]

----------------------------------------
> Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 11:49:51 -0500
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Holbrook BAD LINKS
> From: meteoritemike at gmail.com
> To: erikfwebb at msn.com
> CC: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>
> Hi Erik!
>
> WOW! What a haul. :)
>
> Congratulations and thanks for sharing it.
>
> BTW - save some for the rest of us! ;) LOL
>
> Best regards,
>
> MikeG
>
> On 4/13/09, Erik Fisler wrote:
>>
>> the links to photobucket were bad.
>> here are the ones that work:
>> http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/?action=view?t=DadTotal.jpg
>> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/ErikTotal.jpg
>> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/Relics.jpg
>> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/RawGlass.jpg
>> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/32-40JPG.jpg
>>
>> Thanks for the feedback!!!
>> Keep searching holbrook till you learn to
>> read the wind.
>> [Erik]
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------
>>> Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 07:59:54 -0500
>>> Subject: Holbrook
>>> From: stlouismeteorites at gmail.com
>>> To: erikfwebb at msn.com
>>>
>>> Hi Erik,
>>>
>>> Congratulations on your finds! My son and I hunted for several hours
>>> and didn't find anything last February, and I tried again on my way
>>> home from Tucson and again no luck. We'll try again next year.
>>>
>>> Karl
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>
>
> --
> .........................................................
> Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA)
> Member of the Meteoritical Society.
> Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network.
> Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com
> ..........................................................

From erikfwebb at msn.com  Mon Apr 13 14:41:47 2009
From: erikfwebb at msn.com (Erik Fisler)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 11:41:47 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Holbrook BAD LINKS
In-Reply-To: <e51421550904131126xca4a02bt84875e04c586607c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <34c0c5310904130559h96c8c1cpcba663cdac5b5a06@mail.gmail.com>
	<COL119-W6366C206C04015CB52085BA47F0@phx.gbl>
	<e51421550904130949r64ff649bocbbaedfafa31da4c@mail.gmail.com>
	<COL119-W7177C5BE6D128F691B6207A47F0@phx.gbl> 
	<e51421550904131126xca4a02bt84875e04c586607c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <COL119-W13840140975A8FCE7F038BA47F0@phx.gbl>


I believe the reason is because every one thinks
the field is hunted out.
It's not hard work and rarely is hot.
It's not off limits at all.
Determination, concentration, and persistence will
get you a Holbrook.
To find only one half gram stone would be enormously
rewarding.
 
 
[Erik]

----------------------------------------
> Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 13:26:24 -0500
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Holbrook BAD LINKS
> From: meteoritemike at gmail.com
> To: erikfwebb at msn.com
>
> How come nobody else bothers to look? I'm just curious because I'd
> love to, but I have been tied down by caregiving obligations for
> years. But soon the wife and I are going to start travelling in our
> bus, and I want to hunt Holbrook and the usual strewnfields out West.
>
> Is it because it's hard work out in the hot arid areas, so people
> don't bother, or is it because the Holbrook strewnfield is mostly off
> limits like Canyon Diablo?
>
> Best regards,
>
> MikeG
>
> On 4/13/09, Erik Fisler wrote:
>>
>> Thank you Mike.
>> I would leave some for everyone else
>> except no one is ever out there!
>> It's almost exclusive.
>> If no one is going to pick them up,
>> I will!
>>
>> [Erik]
>>
>> ----------------------------------------
>>> Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 11:49:51 -0500
>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Holbrook BAD LINKS
>>> From: meteoritemike at gmail.com
>>> To: erikfwebb at msn.com
>>> CC: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>
>>> Hi Erik!
>>>
>>> WOW! What a haul. :)
>>>
>>> Congratulations and thanks for sharing it.
>>>
>>> BTW - save some for the rest of us! ;) LOL
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> MikeG
>>>
>>> On 4/13/09, Erik Fisler wrote:
>>>>
>>>> the links to photobucket were bad.
>>>> here are the ones that work:
>>>> http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/?action=view?t=DadTotal.jpg
>>>> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/ErikTotal.jpg
>>>> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/Relics.jpg
>>>> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/RawGlass.jpg
>>>> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/32-40JPG.jpg
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for the feedback!!!
>>>> Keep searching holbrook till you learn to
>>>> read the wind.
>>>> [Erik]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----------------------------------------
>>>>> Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 07:59:54 -0500
>>>>> Subject: Holbrook
>>>>> From: stlouismeteorites at gmail.com
>>>>> To: erikfwebb at msn.com
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Erik,
>>>>>
>>>>> Congratulations on your finds! My son and I hunted for several hours
>>>>> and didn't find anything last February, and I tried again on my way
>>>>> home from Tucson and again no luck. We'll try again next year.
>>>>>
>>>>> Karl
>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> .........................................................
>>> Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA)
>>> Member of the Meteoritical Society.
>>> Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network.
>>> Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com
>>> ..........................................................
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>
>
> --
> .........................................................
> Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA)
> Member of the Meteoritical Society.
> Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network.
> Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com
> ..........................................................

From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Mon Apr 13 20:21:46 2009
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 17:21:46 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Lots of Nice Chondrite Meteorites
Message-ID: <49E3D71A.3050008@meteoritesusa.com>

Beautiful Meteorites on sale...

I've been swamped with getting photos of some of the nicer pieces, and 
have about 5 more I'm going to try to add tonight. I've uploaded some 
great meteorites to the site already so you might want to take look.

Many pieces have superb thumbprinting and are highly crusted LARGE 
individuals. Some brecciated pieces as well. (photos to be uploaded 
tonight) I'll be listing meteorites all week this week with some super 
nice whole and high quality slices, end cuts and half cuts.

End Cuts & Whole Stones: http://www.meteoritesusa.com/nwa-meteorites.htm
KEEP CHECKING BACK BECAUSE MY STOCK CHANGES FAST!

246.4g Chondrite Meteorite "SUPERB SPECIMEN" This is perhaps the BEST 
one of this type of meteorite I have seen!! Highly magnetic, super light 
colored matrix and very very friable. This meteorite practically fell 
apart on the saw. It will not last long and the price is very reasonable 
considering the size.

210.3g Chondrite Meteorite With "NICE CHONDRULES" Cool Piece. Priced To 
Sell Fast!
143.4g Chondrite Meteorite "NICE THUMBPRINTS & CRUST" NICE!
388.2g Chondrite Meteorite "SUPER CRACKLY FUSION CRUST"
1266.2g Chondrite Meteorite "HUGE!"
182.0g Chondrite Meteorite "SUPER NICE CRUST"

Tamdakht: Nice individuals and fragments on the cheap. 
http://www.meteoritesusa.com/tamdakht-meteorite-for-sale.htm

51.2g TAMDAKHT HALF CUT/END CUT
32g TAMDAKHT HALF CUT/END CUT
42.5g TAMDAKHT HALF CUT/END CUT
39.1gg TAMDAKHT HALF CUT/END CUT
104.7g TAMDAKHT A beautiful large piece of Tamdakht H5 chondrite. Crust 
is still very fresh with some oxidation.
315.0g TAMDAKHT BIG piece of Tamdakht H5 chondrite.

Don't forget I have some NWA 869 left in lots and some nice individual 
stones. http://www.meteoritesusa.com/nwa-869.htm

NEWSLETTER SIGNUP: If you want to be notified BEFORE I send out any 
public sales so you can have first dibs, join my list. You'll get daily 
emails and sales announcements BEFORE anyone else on-list. This gives 
you the opportunity to get the best meteorites before someone else 
snatches them up. http://www.meteoritesusa.com/newsletter/

Discounts available on larger orders. Call me at: 904-236-5394 if you 
have any questions about anything. I'll be happy to help.

-- 

Regards,
Eric Wichman
Meteorites USA
http://www.meteoritesusa.com
904-236-5394


From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Mon Apr 13 20:32:47 2009
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 17:32:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Spirit Healthy but Computer Reboots Raise Concerns
Message-ID: <200904140032.RAA02155@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>


http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2009-066  

Spirit Healthy but Computer Reboots Raise Concerns
Jet Propulsion Laboratory
April 13, 2009

Mars Exploration Rover Mission Status Report

The team operating NASA's Mars Exploration Rover Spirit is examining
data received from Spirit in recent days to diagnose why the rover
apparently rebooted its computer at least twice over the April 11-12
weekend.

"While we don't have an explanation yet, we do know that Spirit's
batteries are charged, the solar arrays are producing energy and
temperatures are well within allowable ranges. We have time to respond
carefully and investigate this thoroughly," said John Callas of NASA's
Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif., project manager for Spirit
and twin-rover Opportunity. "The rover is in a stable operations state
called automode and taking care of itself. It could stay in this stable
mode for some time if necessary while we diagnose the problem."

Spirit communicated with controllers Friday, Saturday and Sunday, but
some of the communication sessions were irregular. One of the computer
resets apparently coincided in timing with operation of the rover's
high-gain dish antenna.

The rover team has the advantage of multiple communication options.
Spirit can communicate directly with Earth via either the pointable
high-gain antenna or, at a slower data rate, through a low-gain antenna
that does not move. Additionally, communications can be relayed by Mars
orbiters, using the UHF (ultra-high frequency) transceiver, a separate
radio system on the rover.

"To avoid potential problems using the pointable antenna, we might
consider for the time being just communicating by UHF relay or using the
low-gain antenna," Callas said.

Spirit finished its three-month prime mission on Mars five years ago and
has kept operating through multiple mission extensions.

The rover's onboard software has been updated several times to add new
capabilities for the mission, most recently last month. The team is
investigating whether the unexpected behavior in recent days could be
related to the new software, but the same software is operating on
Opportunity without incident.

"We are aware of the reality that we have an aging rover, and there may
be age-related effects here," Callas said.

In the past five weeks, Spirit has made 119 meters (390 feet) of
progress going counterclockwise around a low plateau called "Home Plate"
to get from the place where it spent the past Martian winter on the
northern edge of Home Plate toward destinations of scientific interest
south of the plateau. On March 10, after several attempts to get past
obstacles at the northeastern corner of Home Plate, the rover team
decided to switch from a clockwise route to the counterclockwise one.
Subsequent events have included Spirit's longest one-day drive since the
rover lost use of one of its wheels three years ago, plus detailed
inspection of light-toned soil exposed by the dragging of the inoperable
wheel.

Halfway around Mars, meanwhile, Opportunity has continued progress on a
long-term trek toward Endeavour Crater, a bowl 22 kilometers (14 miles)
in diameter and still about 12 kilometers (12 miles) away. Last week, a
beneficial wind removed some dust from Opportunity's solar array,
resulting in an increase by about 40 percent in the amount of electrical
output from the rover's solar panels. JPL, a division of the California
Institute of Technology in Pasadena, manages the Mars Exploration Rover
project for NASA's Science Mission Directorate, Washington.

Media Contact: Guy Webster 818-354-6278
Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif.
guy.webster at jpl.nasa.gov

2009-066


From dfpens01 at yahoo.com  Mon Apr 13 21:24:13 2009
From: dfpens01 at yahoo.com (David Pensenstadler)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 18:24:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Looking for info on microscope
Message-ID: <168819.66816.qm@web90303.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


Dear List:

I am interested in purchasing an ore microscope and would like an expert's opinion on whether the one listed on Ebay below is worth the money.


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEBOFFX:IT&item=190285144445

An ore microscope is similar to a petrographic microscope but has, in additon to all the parts of a petrographic scope, also top light for reflected images of thick and opaque materials.

This one can be purchased for $525.

Anyone have any comments on this one?

I am looking to work with meteorite thin sections.  This microscope appears to be of good quality for the price.

Thanks for any info anyone can provide.

Regards,

Dave


      

From bolidechaser at yahoo.com  Mon Apr 13 22:00:04 2009
From: bolidechaser at yahoo.com (bolidechaser at yahoo.com)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 19:00:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Holbrook BAD LINKS
Message-ID: <925842.29469.qm@web51710.mail.re2.yahoo.com>


Hello Erik,

Congratulations on your Easter Hunt at Holbrook.
I really like the way you record your hunt.
All of your images and videos are great.
I particularly like your dad's video where (on the second day, Easter morning) he has returned to the same spot only to find that overnight the strong winds had uncovered, yet, another small Holbrook meteorite.

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEFUusagJEQ>

That video makes me realize that, should I go to Holbrook tomorrow and be lucky enough to make a find, it would more likely be a matter of me benefiting from an extra day of windy or rainy weather, and NOT a case of me "finding one that you missed".

As your images show, this is not your first successful trip to Holbrook.  And I'm sure you're returning to areas that the both of you have previously searched. 

Diminishing returns not withstanding, you and your dad are very savvy to recognize that there are [replenishing] processes at work at Holbrook that are still exhuming meteorites from that fall.  

Thanks for reporting that this classic locality is still "producing".

(Makes me wonder what other known localities are getting replenished;-)
[Bob V.]

--------------------------
[meteorite-list] Holbrook BAD LINKS
Erik Fisler erikfwebb at msn.com
Mon Apr 13 14:41:47 EDT 2009

I believe the reason is because every one thinks
the field is hunted out.
It's not hard work and rarely is hot.
It's not off limits at all.
Determination, concentration, and persistence will
get you a Holbrook.
To find only one half gram stone would be enormously
rewarding.

[Erik] 


From cdtucson at cox.net  Tue Apr 14 01:25:41 2009
From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 22:25:41 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Black Diamonds: A interesting PBS NOVA article
In-Reply-To: <20090413.092249.10320.1@webmail04.dca.untd.com>
Message-ID: <20090414012541.12JI2.585222.imail@fed1rmwml29>

Steve,
Forgive me if you already covered this but, Are these carbonado diamonds the same as the ones found in meteorites such as Canyon Diablo? I believe That variety are referred to as Lonsdaleites. and have a hexagonal structure. Are they also porous? Thanks 
Carl Esparza
IMCA 5829

---- Steve Schoner <schoner at mybluelight.com> wrote: 
> Paul,
> 
> Right.   And the fact that they occur only in two places on earth and are found no where else, further complicates the issue.
> 
> I think that the Earth and moon were asteroid bombarded very intensely in two prolonged events. 2.9 and 3.7 billion years ago.   And this leads to me really wonder about these carbonado diamonds that are so distinct from the others which were clearly formed in the Earth's upper mantle.   The fact that these have an odd amorphous polycrystalline structure and are tougher than the normal terrestrial diamonds makes me wonder more about their origins, too.
> 
> Steve Schoner
> IMCA 4470
> 
> P.S.  I noticed that these are suddenly selling on ebay from the best and till now only supplier of carbonados (aaaroughy).    One must watch out though, as the term "carbonado" is a term used loosely in the diamond trade.   To most legit diamond dealers all dark, brown to black diamonds are "carbonado."    The distinction for a true carbonado is its porous structure which is clearly evident to the eye either directly or under magnification.
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 10
> Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2009 19:23:49 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Paul <bristolia at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Black Diamonds: A interesting PBS NOVA
> 	article
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Message-ID: <757237.64780.qm at web36206.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> 
> 
> Personally, I do not know what to think about the
> origin of carbonados. I do think that "there is much 
> contradictory evidence in the literature" and "This 
> is conundrum which still calls for much more research."
> to quote from the abstract of: 
> 
> McCall, G.J.H., 2009, The carbonado diamond conundrum.
> Earth-Science Reviews. vol. 93, no. 3-4, pp. 85-91.
> http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.earscirev.2009.01.002
> 
> Whatever happened to create carbonados, happened a
> very long time ago as discussed by:
> 
> Yuji, S., R. Yokochia, K. Teradab, M.L. Chaves, and 
> M. Ozimad, 2002, Ion microprobe Pb-Pb dating of 
> carbonado, polycrystalline diamond. Precambrian 
> Research. vol. 113, no. 1-2, pp. 155-168
> http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/S0301-9268(01)00208-X
> 
> Some quotes from Yuji et al. (2002).
> 
> "Pb?Pb age of mineral inclusions in GM01 carbonado,
> 3.3+/-0.7 Ga is older than the formation age of the 
> Sopa conglomerate in carbonado-bearing deposit 
> related to the first extensional event in southeast 
> border of the Sao Francisco craton at 1750?1700 Ma 
> (Uhlein et al., 1998). Therefore, the carbonados 
> were originated somewhere else and later incorporated 
> in the Sopa conglomerate."
> 
> "Mineral inclusions (rutile, florencite, quartz, 
> zircon, and clay minerals) of GM01 and DO3 
> carbonados are typically crustal. The upper mantle 
> origin of the carbonados may be, therefore, ruled out."
> 
> "In addition we can not find any evidence of high 
> pressure shock-metamorphism such as occurrence 
> of coesite based on the mineral assemblage of the 
> carbonado inclusions. Therefore, the early impact 
> origin of the carbonados is probably excluded."
> 
> "207Pb/206Pb isochron age of DO3 carbonado
> matrix is consistent with that of Central African 
> carbonado reported by other workers, suggesting 
> a close genetic relationship between Brazilian and 
> African carbonados within a united landmass 
> during the Archean, as supported by 3.6 Ga zircons 
> observed in the conglomerate.
> 
> With the contradictory evidence for their origin, 
> the lack of any carbonados being found in place where
> they formed, and their great age, it might be very 
> difficult to understand exactly how they formed. 
> Because of their great age and having been eroded
> and redeposited from the parent strata in which they
> either form in place or accumulated as debris from
> some extraterrestrial event means a lot of the 
> critical evidence concerning their origin has been 
> lost.
> 
> Yours,
> 
> Paul H.
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> Click to find schools offering certificate programs.
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From cojack at tiscali.it  Tue Apr 14 04:42:28 2009
From: cojack at tiscali.it (Francesco Moser)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 10:42:28 +0200
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Chegach - Eucrite - Tatahouine
References: <c1a.55c2b63d.37049d8e@aol.com>
	<e51421550904011013n49a15b01pe8e5cfab3769abc7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <413E9AE982834F56A914D5B8319FE5F9@fisso>

Hello!
I have update some meteorite for sale!
Please take a look to the following links:

100% Crusted Chergach - Crusted and mirror polished end-piece - Mirror 
Polished Full Slices with crust
http://web.tiscali.it/francesco.moser/Secondarie/OnSale/Chondrite/Mali.htm
http://tinyurl.com/dzecdv
I also have some mini full crusted Chergach (around 1g), if interested ask 
me!

Chergach meteorite full slice w/ crust 2.2g TOP QUALITY
http://cgi.ebay.it/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=170319259579

Complete and nicely crusted Eucrite - !!! 15% OFF !!!
http://web.tiscali.it/francesco.moser/Secondarie/OnSale/Achondrite/Eucrite.htm
http://tinyurl.com/c7u4uz

Tatahouine
A big Fragment - Slices - End Piece - Small Fragments
http://web.tiscali.it/francesco.moser/Secondarie/OnSale/Achondrite/Tatahouine.htm
http://tinyurl.com/cpyup8


Thanks for looking!!!

<><><><>
Francesco Moser
IMCA #1510 


From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com  Tue Apr 14 08:18:27 2009
From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 08:18:27 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - April 14,
	2009
Message-ID: <d61.4872c974.3715d913@aol.com>

http://www.rocksfromspace.org/April_14_2009.html




__________________________   

**************The Average US Credit Score is 692. See Yours in Just 2 Easy 
Steps! 
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221421325x1201417411/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26h
mpgID%3D62%26bcd%3DAprilAvgfooterNO62)

From info at niger-meteorite-recon.de  Tue Apr 14 08:33:10 2009
From: info at niger-meteorite-recon.de (Meteorite-Recon.com)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 14:33:10 +0200
Subject: [meteorite-list] 661g Tamdakht individual  - AD
Message-ID: <3214640.807301239712390931.JavaMail.servlet@kundenserver>

We'd like to offer to the serious collector a 661 g individual of the well documented Tamdakht meteorite fall of December 20, 2008. This particular specimen was found in January 2009 near the hamlet of Anakhsa (Anakhsa 03) at the most westward end of the distribution ellipse.

Description:

Fall fresh individual with four surfaces. The gently curved front is covered with thick primary crust and shows prominent impact marks. The opposite surface is covered with secondary fusion crust with melt rims overlapping from the front surface along portions of the edges. A third smaller surface fragmented in the last stage of the hot flight. The edges of this surface as well as some protruding spots are already covered with tertiary fusion crust. The rest of this surface is heat altered to a brown color. 
 
The overall condition of this spectacular display specimen is very fresh with no visible oxidation on the fusion crust and only minimal oxidation on small patches where fusion crust chipped off on impact. 

The specimen displays impressively as it stands perfectly on the third surface showing its two large and differently textured broadsides to the viewer.

Images of the specimen can be found here:

http://www.niger-meteorite-recon.de/en/meteorite%20tamdaght%206.htm

Price is 1350 EUR (1790 USD) including insured courier express shipping to the US or Europe. 

Please don't hesitate to request further photos.

As there are virtually no Tamdakht individuals to be found on the market we expect this spectacular textbook example of a fall fresh meteorite to sell quick. We have only this one to offer and we do not expect to get another individual in the near future.

Thanks for your interest

Svend

-- 
www.meteorite-recon.com

From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com  Tue Apr 14 13:33:00 2009
From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 10:33:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - NWA xxxx LL4 S3 W1 slices Ebay auctions
	ending in 1 hour
Message-ID: <589909.23295.qm@web45606.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>


I have several very nice slices of the new NWA LL4 meteorite that end in an hour. These have been tested by Anthony Love at Appalachain State University.
This meteorite has awesome features that include bleached chondrules.
You can see them here:

http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/star_wars_coiiector

Hope everyone is having a good day!

Greg C.


      


From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Tue Apr 14 16:21:56 2009
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 15:21:56 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Wanted : Micros of the following meteorites
Message-ID: <e51421550904141321m433a5554l7201aa3c4acd9e79@mail.gmail.com>

Hi List,

I am looking for meteorites that fell on November 12 or were found on
November 12. (my birthday)

I am also looking for meteorites that fell or were found on September
29 - my wife's birthday.

A search of the Met Bulletin shows the following candidates :

November 12 :

Dhofar 961
Dhofar 733
Verkhne Tschirskaia
Trenzano
Kamsagar
Kirbyville
Isthilart

September 29 :

Benid
Naoki

I realize some of these are rare historicals, lunars, or other types
that may carry a steep price tag.  So I am looking for micros in the
$20 price range, give or take a few bucks.

I am also open to trades - I currently have 80 localities in
collection, plus trinitite, impactites, tektites, semi-precious
stones, and minerals.

Contact me offlist at - mike at galactic-stone.com

Thanks for looking and clear skies!

MikeG

-- 
.........................................................
Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA)
Member of the Meteoritical Society.
Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network.
Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com
..........................................................

From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net  Tue Apr 14 17:36:29 2009
From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 16:36:29 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Wanted : Micros of the following meteorites
References: <e51421550904141321m433a5554l7201aa3c4acd9e79@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B1F04FFA584B45E7B32ED62D1DAFB668@ATARIENGINE2>

Hi, Mike, List,

    You have the name of one of your "wanted"
September 29th meteorites wrong. You list
"BENID," and t