[meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold ofChicago...wasnwa 1794

[Michael Blood]

My, my, my.
        What an interesting disgusting....er, I mean
Discussion....... 
        Michael



> From: Erik Fisler <erikfwebb at msn.com>

> Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 00:15:07 -0700

> To: Meteorite List <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>

> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold ofChicago...wasnwa

> 1794

> 

> 

> you know what I meant  Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 00:13:01 -0700

>> From: meteoritekid at gmail.com

>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com

>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold ofChicago...wasnwa

>> 1794

>> 

>> Erik,

>> You just told me not to stand up for what I believe in.

>> So you're telling me to stop standing up for what I believe in,

>> because, you say, telling people to not stand up for what they believe

>> in - doing that is wrong.

>> Of course, the implications of your statement are interesting. If we

>> all followed that logic, whoever spoke first in any situation would be

>> simply infallible. Anyone who disagreed, standing up for what they

>> believed in, would be telling someone that they couldn't believe what

>> they wanted to. Wouldn't that be an interesting world.

>> At any rate, Erik, I say they have the right to block Steve, just as

>> Steve has the right to post. In fact, by your own reasoning, because

>> Steve must have sent a message to the list before someone criticized

>> him for doing so (logic), the people who harass him are really just

>> keeping (or *trying* to keep) Steve from 'standing up for what he

>> believes in.'

>> So they're still the wrong ones by your reasoning, because he must

>> have preceded his naysayers. I'm advocating free speech in the sense

>> that I believe that these people are merely being hypocritical.

>> They've been annoying the lot of us for ten years trying to get him to

>> stop. I'm saying that they should stop sending me messages, because I

>> don't like their insults and nasty messages.

>> Furthermore, they could accomplish their collective goal of abolishing

>> Steve from their inboxes by simply blocking him. It seems obvious to

>> me, at this juncture, that they really just like harassing someone in

>> public and being able to get away with it. I'm sure you've met some

>> bullies in your time - welcome to the meteorite list.

>> Jason

>> 

>> P.S. It also seems to me that your message lacks 'valor.'

>> 

>> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 11:55 PM, Erik Fisler wrote:

>>> 

>>> 

>>> Alright Jason, you have stated your opinion now respectfully drop it,

>>> or continue to say the same thing over and over in different words...

>>> 

>>> Standing up for what you believe is important and no one should ever

>>> listen to anyone who says to not even bother to stand up for what they

>>> believe or to give up. That is WRONG.

>>> 

>>> [Erik]

>>> 

>>> 

>>>> Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 23:18:06 -0700

>>>> From: meteoritekid at gmail.com

>>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com

>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold

>>>> ofChicago...wasnwa 1794

>>>> 

>>>> Bill,

>>>> I have never asked for, nor received one of his freebies, though I

>>>> will admit to having purchased meteorites from him at more than

>>>> reasonable prices. But you apparently have a problem with someone

>>>> giving away meteorites on a regular basis, and with someone who

>>>> doesn't use a sense of business typical of most meteorite dealers.

>>>> 

>>>> But that's my point, really.

>>>> 

>>>> I've been here, on this list, for eleven years, and, to be perfectly

>>>> frank, you're the problem, not him. He's not the person who turns

>>>> people away from the hobby; it's mean-spirited people like you who

>>>> make others feel unwelcome.

>>>> His posts have never been derogatory. Ill-conceived, maybe. Lacking

>>>> foresight, probably in many cases.

>>>> - But malevolent, like yours, never.

>>>> 

>>>> Many people have many things to thank him for, including great deals

>>>> and free space rocks for some of the less-well-off collectors.

>>>> But he posts too many messages for you. I'll say it again - third

>>>> time's the charm, right?

>>>> Block him if you have an issue. I know for a fact that Hotmail has

>>>> that function.

>>>> 

>>>> I actually disagree with Mark on this; the list really hasn't changed

>>>> all that much in the time I've been here. A number of old-timers have

>>>> moved on, and there -are- a much greater number of newcomers has

>>>> arrived in the past few years, but the same old bickering goes on, and

>>>> on, and on. You're just the next person to take up the anti-Steve

>>>> mantle. If you look back in the archives, that's something you will

>>>> actually find.

>>>> 

>>>> If the list is suffering, it's not from him; he's been a constant here

>>>> for a decade, and this list has yet to collapse in upon itself. The

>>>> list remains *the* list, and I've yet to hear of someone actually

>>>> leaving the list because of Steve. If they have, well, I'm sad that

>>>> they didn't find the block button sooner. If you look back at the

>>>> archives, people typically leave because of this godawful bickering.

>>>> The stuff you're doing. The only reason I feel it might do some good

>>>> is because it really has been getting worse lately - and I figure it

>>>> might be worth pointing out that block function to you lot.

>>>> 

>>>> Elton's argument really is ridiculous, in retrospect. He likely

>>>> bought something from Steve at a rock-bottom price and is now

>>>> harassing him, having just benefitted from Steve's...unorthodox

>>>> business techniques. Glaringly hypocritical, and talk about good

>>>> faith. As though he really expected Steve to leave anyways. If he

>>>> did, well, I think it shows something about his own intelligence.

>>>> 

>>>> Jason

>>>> 

>>>> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 10:54 PM, bill kies wrote:

>>>>> 

>>>>> Good Spirit? Never Derogatory? Generally meteorite related? Are you

>>>>> talking about sSteve? You must be one of his freebie zombies or waiting

>>>>> like so many others to benefit from his erratic business sense. Please do

>>>>> a history check and drop the subject.

>>>>> 

>>>>> 

>>>>> 

>>>>> ----------------------------------------

>>>>>> Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 22:34:07 -0700

>>>>>> From: meteoritekid at gmail.com

>>>>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com

>>>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold

>>>>>> ofChicago...wasnwa 1794

>>>>>> 

>>>>>> Bill,

>>>>>> You are breaking list policy as much as he is in posting as you do, if

>>>>>> not more. His posts do break the suggested limit for posts in a given

>>>>>> time period, but they are always in good spirit, never derogatory, and

>>>>>> are generally meteorite-related. Get off your high-horses and accept

>>>>>> the fact that no matter how wrong he is, you're stooping to below his

>>>>>> level in posting as you do. If you wanted Art to take action, you

>>>>>> should have messaged him, not me. I don't think I'm wrong in assuming

>>>>>> that the rest of the folks out there share that sentiment. If we had

>>>>>> a problem with Steve, we would have blocked him. As could you. The

>>>>>> fact that you haven't seems to suggest that you like the opportunity

>>>>>> to harass him.

>>>>>> And you call him annoying.

>>>>>> I won't criticize or support him; I personally don't care for or

>>>>>> dislike his messages. They're there, and your posts aren't going to

>>>>>> change that.

>>>>>> 

>>>>>> You're the one with the ability to change, to take the higher road.

>>>>>> 

>>>>>> Mark,

>>>>>> I know, but I think it's obvious enough, almost a decade down the

>>>>>> line, that things are not going to change.

>>>>>> This has been going on for, well, combine world the first and second

>>>>>> world wars. That's about how long.

>>>>>> Longer than the occupation of Iraq, and half the length of the Vietnam

>>>>>> War.

>>>>>> You'd think that, at some point, people would begin to understand the

>>>>>> futility of their own actions.

>>>>>> And at some point, I would think it prudent for certain people to

>>>>>> realize that the effort they take to spearhead this effort against him

>>>>>> is really done for the sake of hundreds of people who couldn't care

>>>>>> less. And the level to which they take action against him for being,

>>>>>> what amounts to at worst, a simpleton, is beyond me. Litigiousness in

>>>>>> the sense Elton seems to be advocating is, in my mind, much worse than

>>>>>> anything Steve has ever done - and, given the past, considerably worse

>>>>>> than what he seems capable of doing.

>>>>>> 

>>>>>> Jason

>>>>>> 

>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 10:00 PM, Mark Grossman wrote:

>>>>>>> Without taking any sides pro or con re the particulars of Steve's

>>>>>>> actions:

>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>> There's a brick wall there, and no matter how long you persist in

>>>>>>>> throwing yourselves against it, it's not budging, regardless of how

>>>>>>>> right (or wrong) you are in doing so. You're not going to change him,

>>>>>>>> or the situation in general.

>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>> What a sad state of affairs Jason has described regarding the status of

>>>>>>> the

>>>>>>> biggest meteorite list in the world - no matter which side of the fence

>>>>>>> you

>>>>>>> are on.

>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>> Mark Grossman

>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jason Utas"

>>>>>>> To: "Meteorite-list"

>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 12:43 AM

>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Wire Fraud and Steve Arnold

>>>>>>> ofChicago...wasnwa

>>>>>>> 1794

>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>> Hola,

>>>>>>>> I would again like to point out that, even though his posts may be

>>>>>>>> repetitive and annoying to some - maybe even most - of the

>>>>>>>> list-members who have yet to block him (you might give it a try if

>>>>>>>> you're so annoyed), well, the simple fact of the matter is that a

>>>>>>>> single one of his posts just elicited four utterly negative responses.

>>>>>>>> I *still* find it hypocritical that you lot insist on spamming more

>>>>>>>> than he does. I recall saying at least a few years ago - you're not

>>>>>>>> going to stop him, and going about it the way you are - or any way,

>>>>>>>> really, isn't going to do anything.

>>>>>>>> I was apparently right.

>>>>>>>> There's a brick wall there, and no matter how long you persist in

>>>>>>>> throwing yourselves against it, it's not budging, regardless of how

>>>>>>>> right (or wrong) you are in doing so. You're not going to change him,

>>>>>>>> or the situation in general. Why not give the rest of us a bit of a

>>>>>>>> respite from the constant haranguing and leave him be, eh? One fifth

>>>>>>>> the spam would be nice.

>>>>>>>> Jason

>>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 9:26 PM, bill kies

>>>>>>>> wrote:

>>>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>>> Mr. Tate,

>>>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>>> At a glance this situation might look silly but April 1st or not,

>>>>>>>>> sSteve

>>>>>>>>> has been entertaining himself at the expense of this list for almost a

>>>>>>>>> decade. People can only tolerate so much. We, list members, have

>>>>>>>>> managed the

>>>>>>>>> bad taste and poor humor well enough. Don't rush to judgement unless

>>>>>>>>> you've

>>>>>>>>> read the archives extensively and understand what this fellow is all

>>>>>>>>> about.

>>>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>>> Bill

>>>>>>>>> _________________________________________________________________

>>>>>>>>> Quick access to your favorite MSN content and Windows Live with

>>>>>>>>> Internet

>>>>>>>>> Explorer 8.

>>>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>>> http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B

>>>>>>>>> 037MSN55C0701A

>>>>>>>>> ______________________________________________

>>>>>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com

>>>>>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list

>>>>>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com

>>>>>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

>>>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>> ______________________________________________

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>>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>> 

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>>>>> pdates1_042009

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