[meteorite-list] -2 arrested update (Dude-- Where's My Caredition)

[Erik Fisler]

Has anyone read "Inherit The Wind"???
 
What if this is something along the lines of
everyone in the town hating meteorite hunters
becuase of their hate for evolution...?
 
[Erik]

----------------------------------------

> Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 23:23:49 -0700

> From: eric at meteoritesusa.com

> To: carothersdl at gmail.com; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com

> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] -2 arrested update (Dude-- Where's My Caredition)

>

> Hello all,

>

> Dave, In response to your comment.

> -----------------------------

> "If you own the property, you have no obligation to explain why you

> don't want someone on your property and you sure don't have to justify

> or validate any reason if you decide to provide more than a "NO!"

> answer. ..I agree that conversation is useful, but can you also see that

> pushing the envelope and pressing soneone for a "reason" and not to say

> that you would actually do this, but potentially argue the validity of

> the "reason" would surely sour any land owner..."

> -----------------------------

>

> I agree you should respect the landowners wishes, but should everyone

> take the first "NO" for the final answer and walk away out of respect

> for their decision and leave it at that? If that were the case half the

> businesses in the world would fail. It's not just about respect, this is

> a matter of conscience and if it matters to you so much then simply

> don't ask the question. To others it isn't as "BIG" an issue to ask

> questions of anyone regardless of stature. No disrespect intended. Just

> my opinion.

>

> Jason, in response to your comment.

> --------------------------------------------

> "..If you somehow managed to spend $10,000 on your trip, well - you

> would only need to sell 150 grams of material at your price of $65/g to

> cover your costs. You've asked some pretty 'off' questions, so here are

> a few of my own - how much of your stock have you sold, and how much

> money have you made?.."

> --------------------------------------------

>

> I would say you are a smart kid and I'm impressed with your enthusiasm.

> However I disagree with your ideas on business. It's not just about

> simply recovering costs. It's about making a living and growing the

> business at the same time. And if I may be so bold and use the word

> profit, which seems to be the "bad" word in this whole ethics debate. If

> you ever had to live on your own "and" run a business at the same time,

> and support a family, mortgage, car payments, groceries, and personal

> bills you would understand the importance of being able to not only

> cover your bills but your business expenses as well as grow your

> company. To grow your business a good profit must be made.

>

> In business to charge the highest price a market will bear is directly

> related to supply and demand. If a product is plentiful that products

> price is naturally lower than if the product in question were less

> available. Even so, if the market will support $100/g for a particular

> product that price is a "fair market price". Don't you have an X-Box

> 360? You remember how high the cost was when they first came out? Around

> $500+ if I remember right. Now you can buy them for around $200 a

> decrease of 60%.

>

> That's a fair market price and a good example of a market finding a

> natural balance right? My point is when a product is first available

> that products price regardless of what it is will be determined by

> demand and what people are "willing" to pay to get it. How many parents

> stood in line at the local Wal-Mart and Best Buy to purchase the first

> release of the latest "toy" whether it be an X-Box, PS3, Plasma TV, or

> Tickle Me Elmo.

>

> It's reasonable to expect anyone to charge what they feel is a fair

> price. It's again is about conscience and perceived fairness. Business

> is about profit whether you agree or not. You grow a business by

> reinvesting a portion of that profit back into a company, so you need to

> have a larger profit to grow a smaller business. Larger companies

> needn't have larger profits because they compensate the lower retail

> price with buying power that results in lower wholesale costs to them.

>

> Business ethics and meteorite hunting ethics go hand in hand when a

> dealer is in the field. He must be respectful of the landowners yet pay

> a fair market price. But don't forget he must be able to afford that

> price as well. $10/g might be high for someone where $20/g might be a

> good price for others.

>

> If the supplier (landowner) believes he or she received a good price and

> was treated fairly then that's good for business. If you paid a low

> enough price for any given product to in turn sell at a higher price and

> make a good profit isn't that good business? I wonder what the margins

> were for the X-Box. Costs for businesses are higher at the opening bell.

> At the end of the day the free market will find a balance based on

> supply and demand.

>

> I ask anyone to fairly and honestly answer this question. If you have

> investments in the market (401K etc.) wouldn't you want those

> investments to give you the highest return possible? You don't have to

> be a businessperson to understand the concept of profit. When investing

> in stocks, bonds, CDs, funds, your annual % yield is your profit. If you

> have a problem with higher prices don't pay them and wait for the market

> to stabilize. It always does.

>

> As for the ethics of hunting on private land. Check local laws. And

> never hunt on private land without permission. I believe Mike and Sonny,

> and take them at their word the they were unaware they were on private

> land, and had they suspected it might be private property I would think

> they wouldn't have been there in the first place. If the punishment fits

> the crime, then I think a slap on the wrist is needed, but a $2000+ fine

> and being banned from the county? I think that was more editorial and

> artistic license I think by the paper and strictness by the judge. I

> agree something seems a bit fishy as Steve says. It doesn't sound right

> or make sense why the punishment was so harsh. I grew up in the south

> (Florida not 250+ miles from Augusta) and am familiar with the type of

> private roads described. To me it might be natural to think twice before

> walking down an unmarked road in that area. But out here in the

> southwest it's different. Mike and Sonny didn't do anything that would

> warrant such harsh punishment in my opinion.

>

> Hunting on private land is a privilege not a right. Respect the

> landowners wishes, work with them and they will work with you. Treat the

> landowners fairly and they will most likely reward you with extended

> permission. Who knows, you might just make a new friend. I know we did

> in West, Texas and would not hesitate to invite many of the people we

> met out there over for dinner. We were treated nice by most, and in all

> our dealings out there we came away with new friends and had a great

> adventure.

>

> On a more personal note since I seem to be typing a book here I want to

> say some things and clear the air so to speak. I love meteorites. They

> are my passion and I am fortunate enough to be able to make them a part

> of my life as my career choice. To be able to make a living doing

> something I love is the ultimate reward. The knowledge gained from the

> study of meteorites has changed my life. I never would have guessed I

> would have fallen in love with meteorites such as I have. Many people

> out there in meteorite land don't know me, and I want to say this for

> the record. I have a genuine passion and love for meteorites that is

> topped only by my love for family. To be able to work in the career

> field I am so passionate about is something I am thankful for everyday.

> I have met and hunted with some great people in this business. And

> whether you agree with my opinions or not I will always treat you fairly

> and honestly whether you like it or not. ;)

>

> Regards,

> Eric

>

> P.S. I know this is a long email but I feel I'm forgetting to mention

> something, I'm sure you'll remind me. I'm tired, it's 11:20 and I'm

> going to bed. Nite all...

>

>

> dave carothers wrote:

>> Hi Steve,

>>

>> I'll briefly reply in the same manner...

>>

>> In a message dated 4/2/2009 7:05 PM

>> MeteorHntr at aol.com writes:

>>

>> Steve said:

>>

>> Were they actually burglars, or were they just knocking on her door

>> asking

>> to use the phone for their broken down car?

>>

>> I am sure they were probably burglars. But my point is, just because a

>> newspaper says something, doesn't make it so. Almost EVERY

>> meteorite story ever

>> published has minor if not major flaws in them. And these are not

>> typically

>> stories where a reporter's bias could be blamed for the bad journalism.

>> Almost ALL journalism is shotty today. I just don't believe anything

>> in print,

>> just because it is in print.

>>

>> Maybe Sonny and Mike are lucky to only have to pay $2,000. Maybe

>> they were

>> unlucky to have to pay $2,000. Yes, they might have been shot. I

>> like and

>> respect Sonny and Mike too. I agree, without asking permission, they

>> did not

>> belong there.

>>

>>

>> *******

>> The point I was making about the landowner and the burglers was to

>> illustrate that Sonny and Mike (or anyone in a similar position)

>> doesn't necessarily know the background or local history of the area

>> and what suspicions and fears may be present, hence, my follow-on

>> about the possibility of their getting shot. The bottom line is I

>> think we all agree that getting permission first in the only way to go.

>>

>> *******

>>

>> Steve said:

>>

>> Thanks for the correction Dave. I think I have only seen the phrase

>> "Get

>> the hell out of Dodge" in old western movies, usually relating to

>> Dodge City,

>> Kansas. But arrogant law men are slightly different than judges

>> sitting on a

>> bench with a stenographer recording every statement. Besides, is

>> Hollywood's

>> perspective always the way it really happens in life?

>>

>> Of course, IF Mike and Sonny had already made a plea agreement, or

>> simply

>> plead guilty (whether they really were guilty or not) throwing

>> themselves at

>> the mercy of the court, the judge I presume could puff up his chest

>> and say

>> about anything he wanted.

>>

>> And, I don't mean to imply that if either of them were arrested again,

>> and

>> brought before the same judge, that he would not be more strict the

>> second time

>> around. I don't doubt he would throw the book at them.

>>

>> My preface was that this story seemed a bit fishy to me, that is all.

>>

>> Do judges in Georgia run for public election? "Re-elect Judge

>> Daniel, he's

>> tough on space crime!" might be a good campaign slogan.

>>

>> *******

>>

>> I've worked with the law enforcement community for 12 years and while

>> the vast majority are there to serve the public interest, there are

>> those (police, attorneys, and judges) who abuse their positions to the

>> detriment of the public. In my previous post, I guess I was surprised

>> by the fact that you appeard to find it "unusual" for such a comment

>> to be made by a judge.

>>

>> *******

>>

>> Steve said:

>>

>> Dave, with all due respect to you, I like to engage people in

>> conversations.

>> Me doing so with that man had nothing to do with me being arrogant. If

>> someone has an objection, in sales one learns to flush out those

>> objections. If

>> you don't know the objections, then how do you overcome them? Often

>> times,

>> people have very valid objections. Other times, they don't.

>>

>> Unless a person comes out with their excuse, or if one asks, it is

>> hard to

>> find out why they object. Granted, people lie. Sometimes they will

>> say they

>> don't want you to hunt because 23 years ago, a fisherman left a gate

>> open and

>> some cows got out. But usually that isn't a valid reason for never

>> letting

>> anyone ever come on their land again.

>>

>> Yes, of course, with private property, people don't have to have a

>> reason.

>> But usually they do have a reason. Unless it is brought out, it is

>> often

>> hard to rationally talk with someone about a solution.

>>

>> [snip]

>>

>> *******

>>

>> I thank you for the detailed explanation, but I still have issue with

>> your idea that a land owner would owe you an explanation other than

>> "No" when asked to search their property. You state above that

>> "Sometimes they will say they don't want you to hunt because 23 years

>> ago, a fisherman left a gate open and some cows got out. But usually

>> that isn't a valid reason for never letting anyone ever come on their

>> land again." That is where the arrogance appears. If someone left a

>> gate open 23 or 50 years ago and the property owner doesn't want

>> anyone else to EVER come on the property again. So be it. You may not

>> like the reason, but who are you to judge the validity of the

>> decision? You also state "Often times, people have very valid

>> objections. Other times, they don't." I'll say it again... If you

>> own the property, you have no obligation to explain why you don't want

>> someone on your property and you sure don't have to justify or

>> validate any reason if you decide to provide more than a "NO!" answer.

>>

>> I agree that conversation is useful, but can you also see that pushing

>> the envelope and pressing soneone for a "reason" and not to say that

>> you would actually do this, but potentially argue the validity of the

>> "reason" would surely sour any land owner.

>>

>> Regards,

>>

>> Dave

>> ______________________________________________

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>

>

> --

> Regards,

> Eric Wichman

> Meteorites USA

> http://www.meteoritesusa.com

> 904-236-5394

>

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