From gmhupe at htn.net  Tue Dec  1 00:30:27 2009
From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe)
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 00:30:27 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] HUGE Chondrule & LARGE Planetary Auctions Ending -
	AD
Message-ID: <01BA0D632D544593BF0168D2C8F805E0@Gregor>

Dear List Members,

In less than 24 hours the auction for NWA 5486, the meteorite with the HUGE 
CHONDRULE will be ending along with an NWA 482 Lunar Thin Section, both 
started at Very reasonable prices.

In addition to these two fantastic offers, here is a list of Large Specimens 
of some great Lunar and Martian meteorites, and some other notable Rare 
Achondrites:

End later today (Tuesday, December 1st):
NWA 5486 with HUGE Chondrule (One-of-a-Kind!!!)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350284148343&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT
NWA 482 THIN SECTION Large Surface Area (Lowest ever offered!)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350284153095&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT

Partial List of Auctions Ending Wednesday, December 2nd:
NWA 998 Martian Nakhlite (Over 2 grams)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170412086325&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT
NWA 1068 Martian Shergottite (Over 5 grams)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350284677601&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT
NWA 1195 Martian Shergottite (1/2 mm THIN Complete Slice)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170412089524&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT
NWA 3171 Martian Shergottite 1.51g Slice (Last One!!)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170412090961&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT
NWA 4468 Primitive Martian 11.3 grams (Largest Slice I have Left!)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350284683888&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT
NEA 001 Lunar Slice 2.73 grams (Last Complete Slice I have!)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350284687847&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT
NWA 4883 Maskelynite-rich Eucrite 30.6g Slice (Last of 2 Slices Left!)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170412100662&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT
NWA 5480 Olivine Diogenite 127g Complete Slice (1 of 2 Large Slices Left!!)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350284699174&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT
Dhofar 1085 Lunar Slice (Over 1 Gram)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350284701486&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT
Muonionalusta Complete Slice (currently at 25 cents per gram)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170412105684&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT

To see all that I have to offer, please click here and then scroll past the 
fossils and shark teeth:
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault

Thank you for bidding and/or looking!

Best regards,
Greg

====================
Greg Hupe
The Hupe Collection
NaturesVault (eBay)
gmhupe at htn.net
www.LunarRock.com
IMCA 3163
====================
Click here for my current eBay auctions: 
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault




From meteoritekid at gmail.com  Tue Dec  1 02:23:02 2009
From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas)
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 23:23:02 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite hunters find 13 space rocks in
	Grimsby
In-Reply-To: <4B144004.7090905@meteoritesusa.com>
References: <4B144004.7090905@meteoritesusa.com>
Message-ID: <93aaac890911302323t355e598duc3bcc18f312964bb@mail.gmail.com>

Hola All,
I did a little sleuthing and turned up a photo of one of the newer
finds on the following page:

http://www.physics.uwo.ca/news-events/

For a direct link to the larger size, click here:

http://www.physics.uwo.ca/images/grimsby-fireball-09/recovered-frag1-600.jpg

I'd say ~15g, give or take - it's hard to guess because I don't know
exactly how large that coin is.
Regards,
Jason



On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 1:58 PM, Meteorites USA <eric at meteoritesusa.com> wrote:
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> ARTICLE SOURCE:
> http://www.stcatharinesstandard.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2199710
>
> Meteorite hunters now have a baker's dozen of space rocks that rained down
> on Grimsby two months ago.
>
> But the scientist leading the University of Western Ontario's search
> believes there are still plenty of out-of-this-world stones that have yet to
> be recovered.
>
> "It's nothing to sneeze at," planetary scientist Phil McCausland said
> Monday, describing the meteorite haul to date.
>
> "There's actually still quite a lot of mass out there. It's just difficult
> to find."
>
> The fireball that broke apart and crash landed in Grimsby was first picked
> up Sept. 25 by cameras operated by Western's physics and astronomy
> department.
>
> Astronomers at the London, Ont., university traced the 4.6-billion-year-old
> meteor's path and narrowed their search to a 10-to 12-kilometre area on the
> west side of Grimsby.
>
> The 13 fragments collected so far were all found beneath the escarpment on
> the border area of Grimsby and Winona.
>
> The first piece was found after it smashed the windshield of a Grimsby
> family's SUV.
>
> The stones range from very tiny ? about one gram ? to the size of a golf
> ball. The largest weighs 69 grams.
>
> But McCausland said the larger meteorite pieces, which would have carried
> farther, are expected to be found above the escarpment.
>
> Search parties organized by the university spent many days scouring the area
> over the past two months, but came up empty-handed each time.
>
> The hunt was made difficult by forest that runs along the brow of the
> escarpment, plus crops that remained in farmers' fields until recently,
> McCausland said.
>
> "We expect this fall to have produced several kilograms of material. So far
> we've got less than 200 grams."
>
> Three of the stones were found by local residents, two were spotted by
> meteorite collectors from the U.S. and the remainder were gathered by
> McCausland's hunters.
>
> "They took a long journey to get here. It was really fun to pick them up and
> find them," said McCausland, who has two of the finds to his name.
>
> Under Canadian laws, meteorites become the property of the landowner where
> they are discovered.
>
> McCausland said the university has all but one of the rocks on loan for
> research and is trying to negotiate to keep a few of them with their owners.
>
> The university isn't planning any more organized searches until possibly the
> spring.
>
> In all likelihood, residents living in the area of the meteorite fall will
> be the ones who find more of the rocks, McCausland said.
>
> To help people know what they're looking at, the university is planning to
> hold a meteorite identification clinic at the Grimsby museum within the next
> couple of weeks. A date hasn't yet been finalized.
>
> "I'm certain that there are more sitting out there right now that people may
> have picked up and don't necessarily recognize," McCausland said.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Enjoy...
>
> Regards,
> Eric Wichman
> Meteorites USA
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


From nakhladog at comcast.net  Tue Dec  1 03:50:45 2009
From: nakhladog at comcast.net (Rob Wesel)
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 00:50:45 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Test
Message-ID: <67759C93DF0948A585DBEB298F33233B@windows9bb74fe>



Rob Wesel
www.nakhladogmeteorites.com
www.facebook.com/nakhladog
------------------
We are the music makers...
and we are the dreamers of the dreams.
Willy Wonka, 1971




From michael at rocksfromspace.org  Tue Dec  1 09:05:40 2009
From: michael at rocksfromspace.org (Michael Johnson)
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 06:05:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December 1,
	2009
Message-ID: <997611012.685741259676340397.JavaMail.root@mbs13.homesteadmail.com>

http://www.rocksfromspace.org/December_1_2009.html



From azizhabibi at yahoo.com  Tue Dec  1 12:48:04 2009
From: azizhabibi at yahoo.com (habibi abdelaziz)
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 09:48:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD; SALES OF NWA 5790 NAKHLITE
Message-ID: <148394.28904.qm@web62007.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

HI ALL
?i have sale thnis specimen, of nwa 5790 nakhlite unique structure and not paied to any other martian nakhlite

this 63.4 gr,


http://www.flickr.com/photos/azizhabibi/4138934360/
?http://www.flickr.com/photos/azizhabibi/4138168819/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/azizhabibi/4138167219/


please maker me your offer ,? and if you are interetsed in small fragment send me an email i may break it in small fragment,
so i need a list of potential buyers of small fragments

thanks
aziz habibi
http://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/metbull.php?code=49470
Northwest Africa 5790 
Basic information Name: Northwest Africa 5790
???? This is an OFFICIAL meteorite name.
Abbreviation: NWA 5790 
Observed fall: No
Year found: 2009
Country: (Northwest Africa) 
Mass: 145 g
?
Classification
? history: Recommended:???? Martian (nakhlite)??? [explanation] 

: Planetary meteorites, Martian meteorites
?
Comments: Approved 29 Nov 2009 
Writeup Writeup from MB 97: 
Northwest Africa 5790
Erfoud, Morocco
Find: spring 2009
Classification: Martian (nakhlite)
History: Found in the desert by nomads and purchased by A. Habibi in Erfoud (Morocco). 
Physical characteristics: Two stones for a TKW of 145 g, with mm-sized phenocrysts in a groundmass with pinkish luster. Very friable.
Petrography: (A. Jambon, O. Boudouma, D. Badia, UPVI ) Dominated by mm-sized euhedral augite with sharp rim zoning and faint irregular zoning inside. Subsidiary euhedral olivine phenocrysts are of similar size, zoned to their core. Interstitial mesostasis contains dendritic oxides, pyroxene, feldspar, silica, phosphate and glass. Minor Cl-amphiboles in trapped melt inclusions. Mode from BSE images: augite 51.2, olivine 9.1, mesostasis 39.7, titanomagnetite <1%.
Mineral compositions (SEM and EMPA; as above) and geochemistry (ICP-MS; J-A Barrat UBO): zoned augite core (En35Fs24Wo40 and Fe/Mn = 32) sharp rim? (En20Fs43Wo36 and Fe/Mn = 42), olivine progressively zoned from the core (Fa65 with Fe/Mn = 47) to the rim (Fa80 with Fe/Mn = 40). Rare Ti-magnetite phenocrysts. Uv32Mt56Sp7Ct4 with fine ilmenite exsolutions. In the mesostasis, dendritic crystals of Ti Magnetite: Uv52-74Mt38-19, acicular pyroxene? (En7Fs47Wo46 and Fe/Mn = 55) and olivine Fa88. Plagioclase An16Ab79Or5. Augite with 2-3 wt% Cl.
Bulk major-element chemistry:? similar to other nakhlites; element ratios confirm Martian origin (K/La =473, Ga/Al =3.7 104 [sic]); significantly higher proportion of mesostasis than other nakhlites with the highest Th, U and rare earth elements (REE) concentrations ever reported for a nakhlite (e.g. , Th = 0.85 ppm); REE pattern characterized by a strong light REE enrichment (La/Yb)n = 5.8, and Eu/Eu* = 0.86. 
Oxygen isotopes (R. Greenwood and I. Franchi, OU ): ?17O = 0.30?. 
Type specimens: A total sample mass of 16 g is on deposit at UPVI ; 2.77 g UAlberta; 1.25g UWS ; main mass, Habibi.


      


From stanleygregr at hotmail.com  Tue Dec  1 13:48:42 2009
From: stanleygregr at hotmail.com (Greg Stanley)
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 10:48:42 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Diamonds and Ureilites
Message-ID: <SNT117-W65C279964AA0100B12E55AD2960@phx.gbl>


List:

I was wondering if anyone knows which Ureilite contains the most diamonds, and how much (perhaps by percent) it contains.? I've read that they are often difficult to cut because of the diamonds in the matrix.

Much Thanks,

Greg S.
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Get gifts for them and cashback for you. Try Bing now.
http://www.bing.com/shopping/search?q=xbox+games&scope=cashback&form=MSHYCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHYCB_Shopping_Giftsforthem_cashback_1x1

From gmhupe at htn.net  Tue Dec  1 14:02:54 2009
From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe)
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 14:02:54 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] [MICRO] Diamonds and Ureilites
References: <SNT117-W65C279964AA0100B12E55AD2960@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <9FECE71AE27E48B7A3FF3ECA304C3D9E@Gregor>

Hi Greg S. and List,

Greg S. asked:
"I was wondering if anyone knows which Ureilite contains the most diamonds, 
and how much (perhaps by percent) it contains. I've read that they are often 
difficult to cut because of the diamonds in the matrix."

Ureilites contain 'micro'-diamonds, and in a word on how difficult they are 
to cut and polish, "A Pain!" The first ureilites we purchased in Morocco 
several years ago we learned just how painful and expensive they were to 
prepare. Basically if you are using an 8" .012 diamond blade, expect to go 
through at least one blade per inch of cutting (if you are lucky!)!

Best regards,
Greg

====================
Greg Hupe
The Hupe Collection
NaturesVault (eBay)
gmhupe at htn.net
www.LunarRock.com
IMCA 3163
====================
Click here for my current eBay auctions: 
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Greg Stanley" <stanleygregr at hotmail.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 1:48 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Diamonds and Ureilites



List:

I was wondering if anyone knows which Ureilite contains the most diamonds, 
and how much (perhaps by percent) it contains. I've read that they are often 
difficult to cut because of the diamonds in the matrix.

Much Thanks,

Greg S.

_________________________________________________________________
Get gifts for them and cashback for you. Try Bing now.
http://www.bing.com/shopping/search?q=xbox+games&scope=cashback&form=MSHYCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHYCB_Shopping_Giftsforthem_cashback_1x1
______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list




From fujmon at mac.com  Tue Dec  1 14:15:02 2009
From: fujmon at mac.com (Gary Fujihara)
Date: Tue, 01 Dec 2009 09:15:02 -1000
Subject: [meteorite-list] Diamonds and Ureilites
In-Reply-To: <SNT117-W65C279964AA0100B12E55AD2960@phx.gbl>
References: <SNT117-W65C279964AA0100B12E55AD2960@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <F6E95C4E-6418-44B8-A8AB-9A57614F1657@mac.com>

I don't know the answer to your question Greg, but Gary Huss at UH Hawaii Institute of Geophysics and Planetology showed me a huge Ureilite slab that was cut on a wire saw that had large 2-5mm grooves in it.  He said that the diamonds were so hard that the wire went around them in the matrix of the stone and created those grooves.  Unreal.  I wish I had thought to take a picture of it.

Here is a picture I did get of Gary with some of his specimens he shared with participants of our HISTAR workshop last summer: http://astroday.net/Images/HISTAR09/HS12.jpg

gary

On Dec 1, 2009, at 8:48 AM, Greg Stanley wrote:

> 
> List:
> 
> I was wondering if anyone knows which Ureilite contains the most diamonds, and how much (perhaps by percent) it contains.  I've read that they are often difficult to cut because of the diamonds in the matrix.
> 
> Much Thanks,
> 
> Greg S.
> 		 	   		  
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get gifts for them and cashback for you. Try Bing now.
> http://www.bing.com/shopping/search?q=xbox+games&scope=cashback&form=MSHYCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHYCB_Shopping_Giftsforthem_cashback_1x1
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

Gary Fujihara
AstroDay Institute
105 Puhili Place, Hilo, HI 96720
(808) 640-9161, fujmon at mac.com
http://astroday.net



From kowalski at lpl.arizona.edu  Tue Dec  1 14:07:13 2009
From: kowalski at lpl.arizona.edu (Richard Kowalski)
Date: Tue, 01 Dec 2009 12:07:13 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Naked Science: Countdown to Impact
Message-ID: <4B156961.5060807@lpl.arizona.edu>

Sorry for a little self promotion, but a reminder to those of you in the US that 
"Naked Science: Countdown to Impact" will premier on the National Geographic 
Channel Thursday night.

This episode is about the discovery of 2008 TC3, the identification of it being 
an Earth impactor and the recovery and study of the Almahata Sitta meteorites 
that resulted.

The program's website:

http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/series/naked-science/4652/Overview

now has more information, along with video blogs from the production crew and 
some still images from the show.


-- 
Richard Kowalski
Catalina Sky Survey
Lunar and Planetary Laboratory
University of Arizona
Tucson, AZ  85721


From mike.hankey at gmail.com  Tue Dec  1 14:30:01 2009
From: mike.hankey at gmail.com (Mike Hankey)
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 14:30:01 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Naked Science: Countdown to Impact
In-Reply-To: <4B156961.5060807@lpl.arizona.edu>
References: <4B156961.5060807@lpl.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <f0a794130912011130p9f1a242nefbdf55e9d7a42ee@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for the reminder. Gonna set the TIVO tonight! Congratulations.

On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 2:07 PM, Richard Kowalski
<kowalski at lpl.arizona.edu> wrote:
> Sorry for a little self promotion, but a reminder to those of you in the US
> that "Naked Science: Countdown to Impact" will premier on the National
> Geographic Channel Thursday night.
>
> This episode is about the discovery of 2008 TC3, the identification of it
> being an Earth impactor and the recovery and study of the Almahata Sitta
> meteorites that resulted.
>
> The program's website:
>
> http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/series/naked-science/4652/Overview
>
> now has more information, along with video blogs from the production crew
> and some still images from the show.
>
>
> --
> Richard Kowalski
> Catalina Sky Survey
> Lunar and Planetary Laboratory
> University of Arizona
> Tucson, AZ ?85721
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


From illaenus at wp.pl  Tue Dec  1 14:25:36 2009
From: illaenus at wp.pl (Tomasz Jakubowski)
Date: Tue, 01 Dec 2009 20:25:36 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] Odp:  [MICRO] Diamonds and Ureilites
In-Reply-To: <SNT117-W65C279964AA0100B12E55AD2960@phx.gbl>
	<9FECE71AE27E48B7A3FF3ECA304C3D9E@Gregor>
References: <SNT117-W65C279964AA0100B12E55AD2960@phx.gbl>
	<9FECE71AE27E48B7A3FF3ECA304C3D9E@Gregor>
Message-ID: <4b156db0c31590.53544683@wp.pl>

Dear List Members,
thats true Greg, ureilites contain um size diamonds but also nanometers 
(smallest grains We discover had 320 nm, but smaller are also found). 
Usually diamonds have 2 - 10 um in size, they are set in vein like area 
between olivine, pygeonite cristals.
If someone will be interest I can send many publication about ureilitic 
diamonds off list. I think that Ted Bunch who read List can say 
somethong about their origin.


Kind Regards
Tomek Jakubowski
IMCA  #2321



Dnia 1-12-2009 o godz. 20:02 Greg Hupe napisa?(a):
> Hi Greg S. and List,
> 
> Greg S. asked:
> "I was wondering if anyone knows which Ureilite contains the most
> diamonds,
> and how much (perhaps by percent) it contains. I've read that they are
> often
> difficult to cut because of the diamonds in the matrix."
> 
> Ureilites contain 'micro'-diamonds, and in a word on how difficult they
> are
> to cut and polish, "A Pain!" The first ureilites we purchased in Morocco
> several years ago we learned just how painful and expensive they were to
> prepare. Basically if you are using an 8" .012 diamond blade, expect to go
> through at least one blade per inch of cutting (if you are lucky!)!
> 
> Best regards,
> Greg
> 
> ====================
> Greg Hupe
> The Hupe Collection
> NaturesVault (eBay)
> gmhupe at htn.net
> www.LunarRock.com
> IMCA 3163
> ====================
> Click here for my current eBay auctions:
> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Greg Stanley" <stanleygregr at hotmail.com>
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 1:48 PM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Diamonds and Ureilites
> 
> 
> 
> List:
> 
> I was wondering if anyone knows which Ureilite contains the most diamonds,
> and how much (perhaps by percent) it contains. I've read that they are
> often
> difficult to cut because of the diamonds in the matrix.
> 
> Much Thanks,
> 
> Greg S.
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get gifts for them and cashback for you. Try Bing now.
> http://www.bing.com/shopping/search?q=xbox+games&scope=cashback&form=MSHYCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHYCB_Shopping_Giftsforthem_cashback_1x1
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

mgr. Tomasz Jakubowski
nr telefonu : 602 889 836
Skype : tymon65
GG : 6541214

----------------------------------------------------
SZOK! Zobacz jak wygl?da mieszkanie warte 19 mln! 
http://klik.wp.pl/?adr=http%3A%2F%2Fcorto.www.wp.pl%2Fas%2FPenthouse.html&sid=924




From gmhupe at htn.net  Tue Dec  1 14:42:43 2009
From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe)
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 14:42:43 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Naked Science: Countdown to Impact
References: <4B156961.5060807@lpl.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <77FB936089A44355B0F3E5F44BDC3EEA@Gregor>

Hi Richard,

Thank you for the heads-up reminder of the show. I still think "2008 
TC3/Almahata Sitta" is such an amazing story from discovery (you), 
identification as an Earth impactor and eventual meteorite recover. Too 
cool!

Congratulations once again to you and all involved!

Best regards,
Greg

====================
Greg Hupe
The Hupe Collection
NaturesVault (eBay)
gmhupe at htn.net
www.LunarRock.com
IMCA 3163
====================
Click here for my current eBay auctions: 
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Richard Kowalski" <kowalski at lpl.arizona.edu>
To: "MPML" <mpml at yahoogroups.com>; "Meteorite List" 
<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 2:07 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Naked Science: Countdown to Impact


> Sorry for a little self promotion, but a reminder to those of you in the 
> US that "Naked Science: Countdown to Impact" will premier on the National 
> Geographic Channel Thursday night.
>
> This episode is about the discovery of 2008 TC3, the identification of it 
> being an Earth impactor and the recovery and study of the Almahata Sitta 
> meteorites that resulted.
>
> The program's website:
>
> http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/series/naked-science/4652/Overview
>
> now has more information, along with video blogs from the production crew 
> and some still images from the show.
>
>
> -- 
> Richard Kowalski
> Catalina Sky Survey
> Lunar and Planetary Laboratory
> University of Arizona
> Tucson, AZ  85721
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 




From grf2 at comcast.net  Tue Dec  1 14:47:05 2009
From: grf2 at comcast.net (Jerry Flaherty)
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 14:47:05 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Naked Science: Countdown to Impact
References: <4B156961.5060807@lpl.arizona.edu>
	<77FB936089A44355B0F3E5F44BDC3EEA@Gregor>
Message-ID: <2ECBA0C3ED8D4BAE96ED638A017679C6@ASUS>

I too think, an incredible feat!

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Greg Hupe" <gmhupe at htn.net>
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 2:42 PM
To: "Richard Kowalski" <kowalski at lpl.arizona.edu>; "MPML" 
<mpml at yahoogroups.com>; "Meteorite List" 
<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Naked Science: Countdown to Impact

> Hi Richard,
>
> Thank you for the heads-up reminder of the show. I still think "2008 
> TC3/Almahata Sitta" is such an amazing story from discovery (you), 
> identification as an Earth impactor and eventual meteorite recover. Too 
> cool!
>
> Congratulations once again to you and all involved!
>
> Best regards,
> Greg
>
> ====================
> Greg Hupe
> The Hupe Collection
> NaturesVault (eBay)
> gmhupe at htn.net
> www.LunarRock.com
> IMCA 3163
> ====================
> Click here for my current eBay auctions: 
> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Richard Kowalski" <kowalski at lpl.arizona.edu>
> To: "MPML" <mpml at yahoogroups.com>; "Meteorite List" 
> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 2:07 PM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Naked Science: Countdown to Impact
>
>
>> Sorry for a little self promotion, but a reminder to those of you in the 
>> US that "Naked Science: Countdown to Impact" will premier on the National 
>> Geographic Channel Thursday night.
>>
>> This episode is about the discovery of 2008 TC3, the identification of it 
>> being an Earth impactor and the recovery and study of the Almahata Sitta 
>> meteorites that resulted.
>>
>> The program's website:
>>
>> http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/series/naked-science/4652/Overview
>>
>> now has more information, along with video blogs from the production crew 
>> and some still images from the show.
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Richard Kowalski
>> Catalina Sky Survey
>> Lunar and Planetary Laboratory
>> University of Arizona
>> Tucson, AZ  85721
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Tue Dec  1 17:43:09 2009
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Tue, 01 Dec 2009 14:43:09 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Off Topic: Car Remote Security
Message-ID: <4B159BFD.9060203@meteoritesusa.com>

Hi list,

This is off topic, but it's something I thought worthwhile to share with 
list members. Don't know how recent this is, but I received an email 
forward from a friend and figured I'd forward this to list members just 
as a heads up.

------------------------------------------
BEGIN FORWARDED EMAIL
------------------------------------------
How to Lock Your Car and Why

I locked my car. As I walked away I heard my car door unlock. I went 
back and locked my car again three times. Each time, as soon as I 
started to walk away, I would hear it unlock again!  Naturally alarmed, 
I looked around and there were two guys sitting in a car in the fire 
lane next to the store.  They were o obviously watching me intently and 
there was no doubt they were somehow involved in this very weird 
situation.  I quickly chucked the errand I was on, jumped in my car and 
sped away. I went straight to the police station, told them what had 
happened and found out I was part of a new -- and very successful -- 
scheme being used to gain entry into cars. Two weeks later, my friend's 
son had a similar experience.  While traveling, my friend's son stopped 
at a roadside rest area to use the bathroom. When he came out to his car 
less than five minutes later, someone had gotten into his car and stolen 
his cell phone, laptop computer, GPS navigator, briefcase...You name it. 
He called the police and since there were no signs of his car being 
broken into, the police told him he had been a victim of the latest 
robbery tactic: There is a device that robbers are using now to clone 
your security code when you lock your doors on your car using your 
key-chain locking device.  They sit a distance away and watch for their 
next victim.  They know you are going inside of the store, restaurant, 
or bathroom and that they now have a few minutes to steal and run. The 
police officer said to manually lock your car door-by hitting the lock 
button inside the car. That  way, if there is someone sitting in a 
parking lot watching for their next victim, it will not be you.  When 
you hit the lock button on your car upon exiting, it does not send the 
security code, but if you walk away and use the door lock on your key 
chain, it sends the code through the airwaves  where it can be instantly 
stolen. This is very real.  Be wise and aware of what you just read and 
please pass this note on. Look how many times we all lock our doors with 
our remote just to be sure we remembered to lock
them  -- and bingo, someone has our code...and whatever was in our car.
 Snopes Approved -- Please share with everyone you know!!
 

"never forget that a government, large enough to give us everything we 
want, is also large and powerful enough, to take everything we have..."
------------------------------------------
END FORWARDED EMAIL
------------------------------------------

Regards,
Eric



From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Tue Dec  1 17:52:30 2009
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Tue, 01 Dec 2009 14:52:30 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Off Topic: Car Remote Security
In-Reply-To: <822da19a0912011450p7f70e7aeobb341bc4a04dccd0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4B159BFD.9060203@meteoritesusa.com>
	<822da19a0912011450p7f70e7aeobb341bc4a04dccd0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B159E2E.7090104@meteoritesusa.com>

Woops... Sorry all...









Dark Matter wrote:
> good grief....
>
> http://www.snopes.com/autos/techno/lockcode.asp
>
>
> http://urbanlegends.about.com/od/automobiles/a/car_locks.htm
>
>
> http://majorhitwaves.wordpress.com/2008/08/21/thursday-night-internet-hoax-hall-of-shame-30/
>
> and so on...
>
> -Martin
>
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 3:43 PM, Meteorites USA <eric at meteoritesusa.com> wrote:
>   
>> Hi list,
>>
>> This is off topic, but it's something I thought worthwhile to share with
>> list members. Don't know how recent this is, but I received an email forward
>> from a friend and figured I'd forward this to list members just as a heads
>> up.
>>
>> ------------------------------------------
>> BEGIN FORWARDED EMAIL
>> ------------------------------------------
>> How to Lock Your Car and Why
>>
>> I locked my car. As I walked away I heard my car door unlock. I went back
>> and locked my car again three times. Each time, as soon as I started to walk
>> away, I would hear it unlock again!  Naturally alarmed, I looked around and
>> there were two guys sitting in a car in the fire lane next to the store.
>>  They were o obviously watching me intently and there was no doubt they were
>> somehow involved in this very weird situation.  I quickly chucked the errand
>> I was on, jumped in my car and sped away. I went straight to the police
>> station, told them what had happened and found out I was part of a new --
>> and very successful -- scheme being used to gain entry into cars. Two weeks
>> later, my friend's son had a similar experience.  While traveling, my
>> friend's son stopped at a roadside rest area to use the bathroom. When he
>> came out to his car less than five minutes later, someone had gotten into
>> his car and stolen his cell phone, laptop computer, GPS navigator,
>> briefcase...You name it. He called the police and since there were no signs
>> of his car being broken into, the police told him he had been a victim of
>> the latest robbery tactic: There is a device that robbers are using now to
>> clone your security code when you lock your doors on your car using your
>> key-chain locking device.  They sit a distance away and watch for their next
>> victim.  They know you are going inside of the store, restaurant, or
>> bathroom and that they now have a few minutes to steal and run. The police
>> officer said to manually lock your car door-by hitting the lock button
>> inside the car. That  way, if there is someone sitting in a parking lot
>> watching for their next victim, it will not be you.  When you hit the lock
>> button on your car upon exiting, it does not send the security code, but if
>> you walk away and use the door lock on your key chain, it sends the code
>> through the airwaves  where it can be instantly stolen. This is very real.
>>  Be wise and aware of what you just read and please pass this note on. Look
>> how many times we all lock our doors with our remote just to be sure we
>> remembered to lock
>> them  -- and bingo, someone has our code...and whatever was in our car.
>> Snopes Approved -- Please share with everyone you know!!
>>
>>
>> "never forget that a government, large enough to give us everything we want,
>> is also large and powerful enough, to take everything we have..."
>> ------------------------------------------
>> END FORWARDED EMAIL
>> ------------------------------------------
>>
>> Regards,
>> Eric
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>>     
>
>   



From freequarks at gmail.com  Tue Dec  1 17:50:08 2009
From: freequarks at gmail.com (Dark Matter)
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 15:50:08 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Off Topic: Car Remote Security
In-Reply-To: <4B159BFD.9060203@meteoritesusa.com>
References: <4B159BFD.9060203@meteoritesusa.com>
Message-ID: <822da19a0912011450p7f70e7aeobb341bc4a04dccd0@mail.gmail.com>

good grief....

http://www.snopes.com/autos/techno/lockcode.asp


http://urbanlegends.about.com/od/automobiles/a/car_locks.htm


http://majorhitwaves.wordpress.com/2008/08/21/thursday-night-internet-hoax-hall-of-shame-30/

and so on...

-Martin



On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 3:43 PM, Meteorites USA <eric at meteoritesusa.com> wrote:
> Hi list,
>
> This is off topic, but it's something I thought worthwhile to share with
> list members. Don't know how recent this is, but I received an email forward
> from a friend and figured I'd forward this to list members just as a heads
> up.
>
> ------------------------------------------
> BEGIN FORWARDED EMAIL
> ------------------------------------------
> How to Lock Your Car and Why
>
> I locked my car. As I walked away I heard my car door unlock. I went back
> and locked my car again three times. Each time, as soon as I started to walk
> away, I would hear it unlock again! ?Naturally alarmed, I looked around and
> there were two guys sitting in a car in the fire lane next to the store.
> ?They were o obviously watching me intently and there was no doubt they were
> somehow involved in this very weird situation. ?I quickly chucked the errand
> I was on, jumped in my car and sped away. I went straight to the police
> station, told them what had happened and found out I was part of a new --
> and very successful -- scheme being used to gain entry into cars. Two weeks
> later, my friend's son had a similar experience. ?While traveling, my
> friend's son stopped at a roadside rest area to use the bathroom. When he
> came out to his car less than five minutes later, someone had gotten into
> his car and stolen his cell phone, laptop computer, GPS navigator,
> briefcase...You name it. He called the police and since there were no signs
> of his car being broken into, the police told him he had been a victim of
> the latest robbery tactic: There is a device that robbers are using now to
> clone your security code when you lock your doors on your car using your
> key-chain locking device. ?They sit a distance away and watch for their next
> victim. ?They know you are going inside of the store, restaurant, or
> bathroom and that they now have a few minutes to steal and run. The police
> officer said to manually lock your car door-by hitting the lock button
> inside the car. That ?way, if there is someone sitting in a parking lot
> watching for their next victim, it will not be you. ?When you hit the lock
> button on your car upon exiting, it does not send the security code, but if
> you walk away and use the door lock on your key chain, it sends the code
> through the airwaves ?where it can be instantly stolen. This is very real.
> ?Be wise and aware of what you just read and please pass this note on. Look
> how many times we all lock our doors with our remote just to be sure we
> remembered to lock
> them ?-- and bingo, someone has our code...and whatever was in our car.
> Snopes Approved -- Please share with everyone you know!!
>
>
> "never forget that a government, large enough to give us everything we want,
> is also large and powerful enough, to take everything we have..."
> ------------------------------------------
> END FORWARDED EMAIL
> ------------------------------------------
>
> Regards,
> Eric
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Tue Dec  1 21:04:26 2009
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 18:04:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Dawn Journal - November 27, 2009
Message-ID: <200912020204.nB224QTc027291@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>


http://dawn.jpl.nasa.gov/mission/journal_11_27_09.asp

Dawn Journal
Dr. Marc Rayman
November 27, 2009

Dear Dawnticlimaxes,

Dawn continues to make steady progress through the solar system as it
maintains a gentle pressure on its orbit around the Sun. It has spent
95% of the time since the last log thrusting with
its ion propulsion system, stopping only briefly each week to
communicate with the mission control team on distant Earth.

The probe is on an exciting journey to unlock secrets from the dawn of
the solar system ensconced in the mysterious worlds Vesta and Ceres. And
yet there is one aspect of this expedition that likely is much less
exciting than some readers may expect.

Dawn entered the main asteroid belt on November 13.  As it ventures ever 
deeper into this vast
collection of material between Mars and Jupiter, it may be tempting to
think of the spacecraft constantly dodging asteroids. In some science
fiction movies, the huge rocky bodies are so close together that highly
skilled piloting is required to avoid catastrophes. Now Dawn is guided
by some of the most proficient interplanetary fliers this side of Pluto,
but the reality is that accidental impacts are exceedingly unlikely.
Space is big, and as plentiful as asteroids are, the distances between
them are tremendous.

After crossing the threshold of the belt earlier this month, Dawn will
travel 7.7 astronomical units (AU), or nearly
1.2 billion kilometers (almost 720 million miles), to its July 2011
rendezvous with Vesta. Yet in all that time, and across all that
distance, the closest the probe will come to a catalogued asteroid is
1.0 million kilometers (greater than 600 thousand miles), or more than
2.5 times the distance between Earth and the moon. Certainly travelers
on Earth would not consider something that far away to be a hazard
(especially compared to what many Dawn team members regularly experience
on the freeways in Los Angeles), and neither would our intrepid explorer.

To bring this down to a more tractable scale, we can imagine Dawn's
journey through the asteroid belt to Vesta as a trip from New York City
to Los Angeles, with rocks littered along the way. In this case, along
the entire route to a bizarre and forbidding land, the nearest we would
come to one of these rocks would be 3.4 kilometers (2.1 miles) -- hardly
a close call. At that distance, it would be difficult even to detect the
rock, as it would be a mere 1.5 centimeters (less than 5/8 of an inch)
in diameter; this corresponds to an asteroid less than 5 kilometers
(under 3 miles) across. Even looking out to 20 kilometers (12 miles)
during our trek, the largest object we would pass would be just 3.4
centimeters (1.3 inches), representing a 10-kilometer (6-mile) asteroid
Dawn will miss by 15 times the distance between Earth and the moon.

Dawn is bound for the giants of the asteroid belt. Vesta's equatorial
diameter is about 580 kilometers (360 miles), and Ceres is 975 km (605
miles) across. (Remember that when thinking about three-dimensional
worlds such as these, the diameter may fail to illustrate how large they
really are.) Together these two
behemoths contain more than a third of all the mass in the main asteroid
belt. On the scale of our cross-country drive, Vesta would be 2.0 meters
(6.5 feet) wide and Ceres would be 3.3 meters (11 feet). Rather than
missing them by great distances, we would move to within 0.6 meters (2
feet) of the first target and 2.4 meters (8 feet) of the second.

Dawn's science instruments are optimized for studying these immense
bodies in detail from orbit around them, just as many Earth-observation
spacecraft peer down constantly on our planet. Diverting the probe to
zip past a chunk of rock for a very brief view would be possible, but
doing so would take precious time away from the far richer and more
valuable investigations planned for Vesta. That is where Dawn will find
the rewards of the next 20 months of travel.

While astronomers observe members of the asteroid belt as small as about
a kilometer (a mile), what about still smaller rocks that are large
enough to damage the spacecraft? Because available telescopes generally
are not powerful enough to detect such objects from Earth, mathematical
models are used to predict their prevalence and thus Dawn's likelihood
of encountering them. Although far more abundant than the larger
asteroids, there still are too few pebbles distributed over the enormous
volume of space through which the ship sails to pose a serious threat.

The spacecraft was designed so that the tiniest particles, which are
sufficiently plentiful that some likely will strike it, cannot inflict
significant damage. Dawn's largest area is in its solar arrays, and
asteroidal dust cracking a few of the 11,480 cells is inconsequential.
More sensitive components are covered with protective materials that
will cause the high-speed grains to break up and slow down before they
reach the vulnerable elements. There is good reason to believe Dawn's
travels in the asteroid belt will be safe.

Even as Dawn recedes from the Sun, Earth (moving faster in its tighter
solar orbit) is approaching the spacecraft; indeed, the distance has
been decreasing for more than a year  (and
will continue to do so for another 2 months). On December 5, the craft
and the star will be equidistant from the planet. We saw instances of
these 3 members of the solar system family forming a triangle with 2
equal sides, known as an /isosceles/ triangle, on May 28, 2008 and again 
on September 18 of this year.  In those cases however, the equal sides
were those between Dawn and Earth and between Dawn and the Sun. Next
month, it will be Earth at the apex of the astronomical triangle, with
both the spacecraft and the Sun at a distance of 0.99 AU. The third leg
of the triangle, from Dawn to the Sun, will be 1.70 AU.

To illustrate the geometry, let's use one of the new clocks that have
just reached the shelves of the Dawn gift shop on your planet. (And note
that for any purchase through the end of 2009, we will donate a used
xenon ion to the charity of your choice.) With Earth at the center of
the clock face, if the Sun were at the 10, Dawn would be the same
distance but at the 2. (The clock hands are not important here; the
objective is to illustrate the relative lengths and the angles of the
isosceles triangle. Ignoring the hands also lets us offer the clock at a
very low price!)

Any readers who happen to reside on or be visiting Earth on December 5
may find this arrangement a convenient opportunity to contemplate
something of the nature of an interplanetary voyage. Dawn is quite
invisible even to the most powerful telescopes, but it will be at the
same distance as the most easily detectable extraterrestrial body, the
Sun. The spacecraft has been more remote (as have other pro
bes) and will be again later in the mission, but on that
day it will be just as far from Earth as the star that rules from the
center of the solar system. While the Sun has seemed - indeed, has
been - unreachably distant for the overwhelming majority of human history,
farther even than any horizon travelers could set their sights on, a
craft that we set sail upon the cosmic ocean will be exactly that far away.

To add more dimensions to our mental imagery of Dawn's location, we can
take advantage of another celestial reference on December 6, before the
triangular alignment of the previous day has changed noticeably. At
about 8:30 am PST, the spacecraft will appear just over 2 degrees (or a
little more than 4 times the moon's diameter) north of the moon. As the
moon's orbit carries it around Earth, it will be less than twice that
far from the apparent position of the spacecraft for the 6 hours before
and after that time, so anyone who can see the moon during that interval
can get a rough fix on Dawn's location. For readers in North America,
the alignment occurs when the moon is the western sky after dawn (yes!).
>From the vantage point of the center of the clock, observers may be able
to see both the Sun and the approximate location of the spacecraft at
the same distance, letting their imaginations take over where their eyes
leave off. Out there, in /that/ direction, as far as the Sun, will be
Dawn, patiently, reliably, silently continuing its bold voyage of
exploration.

Dawn is 1.03 AU (154 million kilometers or 96 million miles) from Earth,
or 395 times as far as the moon and 1.05 times as far as the Sun. Radio
signals, traveling at the universal limit of the speed of light, take 17
minutes to make the round trip.



From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Tue Dec  1 21:09:43 2009
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 18:09:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars Odyssey Puts Itself Into Safe Standby
Message-ID: <200912020209.nB229haE028749@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>


http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2009-181

Orbiter Puts Itself Into Safe Standby
Jet Propulsion Laboratory
November 30, 2009

PASADENA, Calif. -- NASA's Mars Odyssey orbiter put itself into a safe
standby mode on Saturday, Nov. 28, and the team operating the spacecraft
has begun implementing careful steps designed to resume Odyssey's
science and relay operations within about a week.

Engineers have diagnosed the cause of the Nov. 28 event as the
spacecraft's proper response to a memory error with a known source. The
likely cause is an upset in the orbiter's "memory error external bus,"
as was the case with a similar event in June 2008.

In safe mode over the weekend, Odyssey remained in communication with
ground controllers and maintained healthy temperatures and power. To
clear the memory error, the team commanded Odyssey today to perform a
cold reboot of the orbiter's onboard computer. The spacecraft reported
that the reboot had been completed successfully.

"This event is a type we have seen before, so we have a known and tested
path to resuming normal operations," said Odyssey Project Manager Philip
Varghese of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif.

Odyssey has been orbiting Mars since 2001. In addition to its own major
scientific discoveries and continuing studies of the planet, the Odyssey
mission has played important roles in supporting the missions of the
Mars rovers Spirit and Opportunity and the Phoenix Mars Lander.

Until Odyssey is available again as a communications relay, Spirit and
Opportunity will be operating with direct communications to and from Earth.

JPL, a division of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena,
manages Mars Odyssey for the NASA Science Mission Directorate,
Washington. Lockheed Martin Space Systems, Denver, is the prime
contractor for the project and built the spacecraft. Additional
information about Odyssey is at http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/odyssey.

Guy Webster 818-354-6278
Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif.
guy.webster at jpl.nasa.gov

2009-181



From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Tue Dec  1 21:14:40 2009
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 18:14:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Spirit Update: Another Stall of Right-Rear Wheel
	Ends Drive
Message-ID: <200912020214.nB22EfaX000759@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>


http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2009-182  

Another Stall of Right-Rear Wheel Ends Drive
Jet Propulsion Laboratory
December 01, 2009

Spirit's right-rear wheel stalled again on Sol 2099 (Nov. 28, 2009)
during the first step of a two-step extrication maneuver. This stall is
different in some characteristics from the stall on Sol 2092 (Nov. 21).
The Sol 2099 stall occurred more quickly and the inferred rotor
resistance was elevated at the end of the stall. Investigation of past
stall events along with these characteristics suggest that this stall
might not be result of the terrain, but might be internal to the
right-rear wheel actuator. Rover project engineers are developing a
series of diagnostics to explore the actuator health and to isolate
potential terrain interactions. These diagnostics are not likely to be
ready before Wednesday. Plans for future driving will depend on the
results of the diagnostic tests.

Before the Sol 2099 drive ended, Spirit completed 1.4 meters of wheel
spin and the rover's center moved 0.5 millimeters (0.02 inch) forward,
0.25 millimeters (0.01 inch) to the left and 0.5 millimeters (0.02 inch)
downward. Since Spirit began extrication on Sol 2088, the rover has
performed 9.5 meters (31 feet) of wheel spin and the rover's center, in
total, has moved 16 millimeters (0.63 inch) forward, 10 millimeters
(0.39 inch) to the left and 5 millimeters (0.20 inch) downward.



From drtanuki at yahoo.com  Tue Dec  1 21:30:17 2009
From: drtanuki at yahoo.com (drtanuki)
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 18:30:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] update on Utah meteor of 18NOV09
Message-ID: <194569.80729.qm@web53103.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Dear List,
  I just posted a news update on the Utah fireball of 18NOV09. New information in the article:
http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.com/

Also, there is a report of a loud noise, earthquake?, meteor? in Australia on 1DEC09. 

Thank you for reading!
Best Always,
Dirk Ross...Tokyo


From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com  Tue Dec  1 23:25:51 2009
From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold)
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 20:25:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] BIGGEST FREEBIE GIVAWAYS EVER
Message-ID: <168928.41726.qm@web57802.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Good evening list.As promised last week, here it is.The biggest freebie givaway ever.I decided to do this now?instead of toward the end of the year.I have 40 tektites to givaway to a good home.Please when chiming in,give your address to me so I dont have to ask twice and checking it.So you know what to do.
?Steve R. Arnold, Chicago!! 


From michael at rocksfromspace.org  Wed Dec  2 00:51:51 2009
From: michael at rocksfromspace.org (Michael Johnson)
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 21:51:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December 2,
	2009
Message-ID: <987773015.854441259733111862.JavaMail.root@mbs13.homesteadmail.com>

http://www.rocksfromspace.org/December_2_2009.html



From meteoriteshow at free.fr  Wed Dec  2 06:31:30 2009
From: meteoriteshow at free.fr (meteoriteshow at free.fr)
Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 12:31:30 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - ebay auctions ending on Saturday
Message-ID: <1259753490.4b1650129e119@imp.free.fr>

Dear Fellow Listees,

Our ebay auctions ending on Saturday can be seen at:
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ50QQsassZmeteoriteshow

MOST OF THEM HAVE NO BID YET! SO JUMP ON THEM, THEY ARE ALL GREAT STUFF!!!

They include:

1- DaG 947 - LL6 - 0.79g partslice
Partslice weighing 0.79g, dimensions 14x12x2mm
Partslice with FUSION CRUST
NO BID YET!!! STILL AT $100 STARTING PRICE!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330376925904

2- NWA 5618 - 1.8g Partslice - EUC-Pmict
UNUSUAL EUCRITE (see classification's details)!
FRESH & GORGEOUS Partslice #14 weighing 1.8g, dimensions ~25x18x2mm.
VERY FRESH, Partially fusion crusted, with huge pyroxene cristals (pigeonite).
Shipped in a membrane box (see pictures)
NO BID YET!!! STILL AT $100 STARTING PRICE!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330376925942

3- NWA 859 (Taza) IRON UNGR. - 3.3g oriented
OUTSTANDING ORIENTED INDIVIDUAL weighing 3.3g, dimensions ~17x8x5mm.
"BULLET SHAPE" with rollover lips (SEE PICTURES)
Shipped in a display box
NO BID YET!!! STILL AT $100 STARTING PRICE!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330376925960

4- SAH 02503 CV3 - 0.6g partslice
Partslice weighing 0.6g, dimensions ~28x11x1mm.
Displays nice CAIs and sharpely defined chondrules.
One CAI is particularly beautiful...
NO BID YET!!! STILL AT $100 STARTING PRICE!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330376925979

5- SAHARAN OC #3473 - 415g individual
Individual weighing 415g - 75x73x56mm.
Covered by a weathered Fusion Crust with regmaglypts.
STILL AT $100 STARTING PRICE!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330376926025

6- ZAG H3-6 - 3.4g Slice - WITNESSED FALL!
Slice weighing 3.4g, Dimensions: 32x18x2mm
Displays the 2 typical lithologies of ZAG in a Fresh fair grey matrix.
NO BID YET!!! STILL AT $100 STARTING PRICE!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330376926059

Thank you very much for watching and best wishes to ALL BIDDERS!!!
Kind regards,

Frederic Beroud
http://www.meteoriteshow.com
IMCA member # 2491 (http://www.imca.cc/)


From almitt at kconline.com  Wed Dec  2 10:03:25 2009
From: almitt at kconline.com (al mitt)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 10:03:25 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: eBay Auctions
In-Reply-To: <987773015.854441259733111862.JavaMail.root@mbs13.homesteadmail.com>
References: <987773015.854441259733111862.JavaMail.root@mbs13.homesteadmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C0259449F7F490A9FDD117A5F230C6B@StarmanPC>

Greetings,

I have some eBay Auctions ending in about one day to five days. Some of 
these include some rare items.

http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/almittmet

Items Include: Lafayette, Indiana, Lost City Oklahoma, Tambo Quemado iron 
with great widmanstatton, smaller imilac, Chile Pallasite, Allende Mexico 
CV3, Gibeon Namibia Whole, Norton County Aubrite, Richfield Kansas LL3.7, 
Murchison CM2 Carbonaceous and some other larger specimens. Auctions ending 
in about 1 to 6 days.

Also have some hard to get Milton Missouri Meteorite Class: Third Type 
Pallasite Micro Specimen in an attractive display case .01 gram and a Lost 
City Micro starting at .99 cents!

I'll be putting more items up as the weeks continue to Christmas and even 
after. If you are wanting something, contact me and I'll try to list an item 
for you or deal directly with you. Best! Have fun!

All my best

--AL 




From fujmon at mac.com  Wed Dec  2 12:23:49 2009
From: fujmon at mac.com (Gary Fujihara)
Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 07:23:49 -1000
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD-December Deals end Sat on eBay
Message-ID: <295B0F1C-37F7-47BA-8614-1C3AF0FA9B24@mac.com>

With just 23 days before Christmas, the countdown is on for procrastinating present purchasers (of which I am one).  So, to help you stuff those stockings (or boots as the case may be), the Big Kahuna is offering some delicious deals for December, in an eBay auction ending this Saturday, December 5 starting at 9:15 am Pacific / 12:15 pm Eastern / 4:15 pm London.  Here are just some of the many items on the auction block:

MURCHISON CM2 0.05g, 0.09g, 0.41g Crusted frags, 99?
BENGUERIR LL6  32.91g Crusted Ind RARE, Starting at <$4/g
NWA 2975 She 0.10g, 0.16g, 0.40g, 1.11g Crusted, Cheap!
NWA x 82g, 164g  unclassified possible type 3 complete, <$2/g
ALLENDE CV3 12.68g, 20g Dealers Lot, starting bid <$5/g
BASSIKOUNOU H5  14g 98% FC New shipment, $1.50/g
CHERGACH H5  21.21g 99% FC Grade A starting at $1.50/g
CAMEL DONGA Euc  8.44g Flowlines!  Starting at <$12/g
MILLBILLILLIE Euc  2.75g AAA Oriented, one of the last
TATAHOUINE Dio  0.49g bid at 99?
NWA 1877 Oli Dio  2.54g Rare, bid at 99?
GOLD BASIN L4  33.26g Half stone, bid at 99?

... and the usual assortment of quality NWA x stones and slices, Allende frags, Norton Cty and Bilanga crusted frag lots, Henbury, Canyon Diablo, a Drop Dead Gorgeous Red Crystal Mantle Xenolith (Olivine bomb) and a Galileoscope.  See them all here:

http://shop.ebay.com/fujmon/m.html

Remember that you can count on the Big Kahuna to provide you with the highest quality authentic meteorites at the lowest prices on earth.

Gary Fujihara
Big Kahuna Meteorites
105 Puhili Place
Hilo, Hawaii 96720
(808) 640-9161



From mmurray at montrose.net  Wed Dec  2 14:57:08 2009
From: mmurray at montrose.net (Michael Murray)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 12:57:08 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December
	2, 2009
In-Reply-To: <987773015.854441259733111862.JavaMail.root@mbs13.homesteadmail.com>
References: <987773015.854441259733111862.JavaMail.root@mbs13.homesteadmail.com>
Message-ID: <1E7C35E6-F0FE-432D-B719-8BEAC72A3100@montrose.net>

Thanks for sharing that picture Larry, and Michael.  I don't think  
there have been very many days go by in the recent years that I  
haven't re-read some part or chapter in one of O. Richard Norton's  
books on meteorites.
Mike in CO
On Dec 1, 2009, at 10:51 PM, Michael Johnson wrote:

> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/December_2_2009.html
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From oxytropidoceras at cox.net  Wed Dec  2 17:20:25 2009
From: oxytropidoceras at cox.net (oxytropidoceras at cox.net)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 17:20:25 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Reigniting the Cretaceous-Palaeogene firestorm
	debate
Message-ID: <20091202172025.BAQ93.22850.imail@eastrmwml30>

Belcher, C. M., 2009, Reigniting the Cretaceous-Palaeogene 
firestorm debate. Geology. vol. 37, no. 12, pp. 1147-1148 

Abstract and text at:

http://geology.gsapubs.org/content/37/12/1147.full.pdf+html

PDF file at:

http://geology.gsapubs.org/content/37/12/1147.full.pdf+html

Yours,

Paul H.


From meteorites at online.nl  Wed Dec  2 18:29:38 2009
From: meteorites at online.nl (Jan Bartels)
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 00:29:38 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] [AD] Guadadule Y Calvo,
	the Dog's drinking bowl meteorite.
Message-ID: <CB808CE87A384FBCA5E39339E75FC600@laptop>

Dear Listoids,

I believe this is a pretty rare one these days...

Guadalupe Y Calvo, 48 gram part. slice. (hexahedrite IIA)
The 58,6 kg. meteorite had been used as a dog bowl for years on a ranch in 
Cihuahua, Mexico and after it was recognized as a meteorite it was traded 
for a new pickup truck.

Really don't know what it is worth these days. I couln't find any others 
offered to value this one so make an offer before it goes to Ebay.

Pictures on request off list pls.
Paypal only, no trades.

Best,
Jan
IMCA 9833 



From mail at mhmeteorites.com  Wed Dec  2 18:42:31 2009
From: mail at mhmeteorites.com (Matt Morgan)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 23:42:31 +0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] Karl Sprich email?
Message-ID: <763808340-1259797355-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-166198808-@bda667.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

Anyone have Karl's email address?

Thanks
Matt
----------------------
Matt Morgan
Mile High Meteorites
http://www.mhmeteorites.com
P.O. Box 151293
Lakewood, CO 80215 USA


From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com  Wed Dec  2 21:12:10 2009
From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 18:12:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] TEKTITE GIVAWAY
Message-ID: <349989.96106.qm@web57802.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Hi again list.I have 26 addresses for free tektites,so that means I have 14 left to give.The world is welcome.Also as a bonus,5 lucky people will also get a meteorite with thier tektite.So be watching in the coming days for your mail.2 months till tucson.
?Steve R. Arnold, Chicago!! 


From michael at rocksfromspace.org  Wed Dec  2 23:00:33 2009
From: michael at rocksfromspace.org (Michael Johnson)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 20:00:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December 3,
	2009
Message-ID: <96456768.178621259812833840.JavaMail.root@mbs1.homesteadmail.com>

http://www.rocksfromspace.org/December_3_2009.html



From deanbessey at yahoo.com  Thu Dec  3 14:44:11 2009
From: deanbessey at yahoo.com (dean bessey)
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 11:44:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Classic Ebay Letter
In-Reply-To: <2E92EA73-FDC5-43B0-A7C0-AEB140E76399@mac.com>
Message-ID: <624368.33997.qm@web56103.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

This dont pertain strictly to meteorites except that ebay has become the worlds best source of supply but last July ebay suspended me for a week because of something with my pearl auctions. They wouldent tell me what and a phone conversation with the worlds rudest person told me that it would be a security violation to tell me what was wrong with my auctions (Said if they told me what was wrong I could do things to get around the rules and list again). Usually they refused to even respond to emails asking what the problem was.
Well, they finally answered one of my emails asking what was wrong with my auctions. I still have no idea what was wrong with my auctions but at least they answered my emails.
Now I have to do some guesswork so that I can list pearls again. Not sure what counterfeit and replica items have to do with my pearl auctions.
Just goes to show. You cant depend on running strictly an ebay business 
Cheers
DEAN
-------------------------------------------------------------------------


Dear Dean,

Thank you for writing eBay in regards to your items that were removed in
July.

Your listings were removed because it contained indicators that are
commonly associated with fraudulent listings.

Due to security concerns, I'm unable to share with you the specific
criteria that we used to make this decision. We keep this information
confidential, to prevent potential misuse.

Please understand that it's against eBay policy and illegal to sell
counterfeit or unauthorized items. This policy protects intellectual
property and protects buyers from purchasing counterfeit or fraudulent
items.

eBay can remove a listing if we believe that the sale of the item might
create liability for the buyer, the seller, or a third party.

For more information on the eBay Replica, Counterfeit Items, and
Unauthorized Copies policy, please visit:

 http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/replica-counterfeit.html

Click the "Show" links for more information about the policy, examples
of items not permitted on eBay, and the reason why eBay has this policy.

Thank you for your time.

Sincerely,


eBay Trust and Safety


      


From stanleygregr at hotmail.com  Thu Dec  3 14:50:34 2009
From: stanleygregr at hotmail.com (Greg Stanley)
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 11:50:34 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] 13 years later - Martian meteorite surrenders
 new	secrets
In-Reply-To: <D833F5357E844EB7999931FBC2F37FD2@laptop>
References: <77392.56323.qm@web51711.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<SNT117-W25385EA34CDDA708E2E92FD2970@phx.gbl>,
	<D833F5357E844EB7999931FBC2F37FD2@laptop>
Message-ID: <SNT117-W3968E669098D1EFC152C96D2940@phx.gbl>


List:

Meteorite #2 with microbes - Nakhla

http://www.newser.com/story/75307/museum-puts-martian-colony-on-display.html

Neat picture.

Greg S.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

(Newser)? ? A London museum that unwittingly hosted a fossilized colony of Martians for decades has put the alien life on display. NASA scientists who recently examined the Natural History Museum's fragment of the Nakhla meteorite believe bumps on its surface are fossilized Martian microbacteria, the Telegraph reports. The meteorite crashed into Egypt in 1911.

?

----------------------------------------
> From: pshugar at clearwire.net
> To: stanleygregr at hotmail.com; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] 13 years later - Martian meteorite surrenders new secrets
> Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 20:42:16 -0600
>
> Since NWA 998 is of the same general compositional structure, does this
> mean that NWA 998 might also have some of the same secrets to give up
> *
> as does ALH 84001?
> ^
> If I remember correctly, NWA 998 also had water and other components
> ^
> as does ALH 84001.
> ^
> What will this do to the price of Martian meteorites?
> ^
> Just asking questions and hoping to learn more.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Greg Stanley" 
> To: "bob varish" ;
> 
> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 11:05 AM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] 13 years later - Martian meteorite surrenders
> new secrets
>
>
>>
>> I would have to say now:
>> ALH84001 is the most valuable, rare and important meteorite on earth.
>>
>> Greg S.
>>
>> ----------------------------------------
>>> Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 08:20:35 -0800
>>> From: bolidechaser at yahoo.com
>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] 13 years later - Martian meteorite surrenders
>>> new secrets
>>>
>>> 13 years later -
>>>
>>> Martian meteorite surrenders new secrets of possible life
>>>
>>> BY CRAIG COVAULT
>>> SPACEFLIGHT NOW
>>> Posted: November 24, 2009
>>>
>>> Compelling new data that chemical and fossil evidence of ancient
>>> microbial life on Mars was carried to Earth in a Martian meteorite is
>>> being elevated to a higher plane by the same NASA team which made the
>>> initial discovery 13 years ago.
>>>
>>> Sources tell Spaceflight Now that the new data are providing a powerful
>>> new case for the Allen Hills Meteorite to have carried strong evidence of
>>> Martian life to Earth -- evidence that is increasingly standing up to
>>> scrutiny as new analytical tools are used to examine the specimen.
>>>
>>> The latest findings are the product of new research using more advanced
>>> High Resolution Electron Microscopy than was in existence when the
>>> initial findings were made and announced by NASA and the White House in
>>> 1996.
>>>
>>> Those laboratory sensors are being focused directly on carbonate discs
>>> and associated tiny magnetite crystals present inside the meteorite Allen
>>> Hills ALH 84001.
>>>
>>> More at:
>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.
>> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141665/direct/01/
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live Hotmail is faster and more secure than ever.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/hotmail_bl1/hotmail_bl1.aspx?ocid=PID23879::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-ww:WM_IMHM_1:092009

From stanleygregr at hotmail.com  Thu Dec  3 14:58:07 2009
From: stanleygregr at hotmail.com (Greg Stanley)
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 11:58:07 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] =?windows-1252?q?Thought_this_was_hilarious_=96_?=
 =?windows-1252?q?For_Those_in_Denver?=
Message-ID: <SNT117-W274B79B026A580D8FE06A0D2940@phx.gbl>


For those in Denver
Greg S.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2009/12/03/2009-12-03_now_thats_really_out_there_denver_voters_to_decide_on_possible_extraterrestrial_.html


Folks in the Mile High City think it's high time they rustled up a welcome party for ET, whenever the cute little varmint finally touches down.

Maybe it's something in the rarefied air or the famed Rocky Mountain water, but activist Jeff Peckman managed to gather the nearly 4,000 valid signatures to have Denver voters consider his plan for an Extraterrestrial Affairs Commission, the Los Angeles Times reported.

The new city panel would promote "harmonious, peaceful, mutually respectful and beneficial coexistence" between earthlings and extraterrestrials, in part by developing protocols for "diplomatic contact."

Its seven members would include an expert in taking testimony from people who've survived "direct personal close encounters" with aliens, the paper reported.

And in what has to be good news for space cadets beyond the city limits, the initiative says, "Members who are not Denver residents may participate from anywhere in the universe," the L.A. Times said.

Closer to home, Brown could see the dark side of Denver having a space alien agency. "If someone was looking to locate a business here, they'd think, 'What kind of city is this?' " he told the L.A. Times yesterday.

Brown also wondered whether Colorado should float such an oddball plan so soon after the "Balloon Boy" hoax that was hatched in Fort Collins.

"It's like saying you're going to have a ballot initiative about the existence of Bigfoot," Michael Shermer, publisher of Skeptic magazine, told the L.A. Times.

But Peckman, 55, is plucky. He was bummed that President Obama hadn't revealed what the government knows about extraterrestrial beings, so he dreamed up the donation-funded commission to act as both an investigative body and an information clearinghouse -- a panel that would also display Denver's ability to "think big," the paper reported.

The self-described entrepreneur admitted his own experience with aliens is limited. He has spotted a UFO just once -- the day Michael Jackson died.

Peckman was standing downtown, chatting on a cell phone, when a green ball of light flashed by. "It didn't fizzle out like a meteorite. I just stood there awe-struck," he said. "The next morning, I read someone had seen a green ball of light over Neverland," the L.A. Times reported.

Whether Peckman or his city can make friends in other galaxies is up in the air, but some UFO groups wish his campaign would flame out.

The commission would duplicate existing programs and hobble attempts for ET hunters to be taken seriously, Mark Easter, a spokesman for MUFON, in Fort Collins, told the L.A. Times.

"God, this is really desperate to put something on the ballot," said Julie Shuster, executive director of the International UFO Museum and Research Center in Roswell, N.M.
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Get gifts for them and cashback for you. Try Bing now.
http://www.bing.com/shopping/search?q=xbox+games&scope=cashback&form=MSHYCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHYCB_Shopping_Giftsforthem_cashback_1x1

From Impactika at aol.com  Thu Dec  3 16:18:45 2009
From: Impactika at aol.com (Impactika at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 16:18:45 EST
Subject: [meteorite-list] Thought_this_was_hilarious
Message-ID: <c9c.57e39540.38498535@aol.com>

Thanks Stanley.
 
We need a good laugh to keep warm here.
It is 16 degrees today (that's -9 Celsius)  And the high of the day was 18!!
Good thing I didn't have much snow to shovel.

Anne M. Black
_http://www.impactika.com/_ (http://www.impactika.com/) 
_IMPACTIKA at aol.com_ (mailto:IMPACTIKA at aol.com) 
Vice-President, I.M.C.A. Inc.
_http://www.imca.cc/_ (http://www.imca.cc/) 



In a message dated 12/3/2009 12:58:45 PM Mountain Standard Time, 
stanleygregr at hotmail.com writes:
For those in Denver
Greg S.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2009/12/03/2009-12-03_now_thats_rea
lly_out_there_denver_voters_to_decide_on_possible_extraterrestrial_.html


Folks in the Mile High City think it's high time they rustled up a welcome 
party for ET, whenever the cute little varmint finally touches down.

Maybe it's something in the rarefied air or the famed Rocky Mountain water, 
but activist Jeff Peckman managed to gather the nearly 4,000 valid 
signatures to have Denver voters consider his plan for an Extraterrestrial Affairs 
Commission, the Los Angeles Times reported.

The new city panel would promote "harmonious, peaceful, mutually respectful 
and beneficial coexistence" between earthlings and extraterrestrials, in 
part by developing protocols for "diplomatic contact."

Its seven members would include an expert in taking testimony from people 
who've survived "direct personal close encounters" with aliens, the paper 
reported.

And in what has to be good news for space cadets beyond the city limits, 
the initiative says, "Members who are not Denver residents may participate 
from anywhere in the universe," the L.A. Times said.

Closer to home, Brown could see the dark side of Denver having a space 
alien agency. "If someone was looking to locate a business here, they'd think, 
'What kind of city is this?' " he told the L.A. Times yesterday.

Brown also wondered whether Colorado should float such an oddball plan so 
soon after the "Balloon Boy" hoax that was hatched in Fort Collins.

"It's like saying you're going to have a ballot initiative about the 
existence of Bigfoot," Michael Shermer, publisher of Skeptic magazine, told the 
L.A. Times.

But Peckman, 55, is plucky. He was bummed that President Obama hadn't 
revealed what the government knows about extraterrestrial beings, so he dreamed 
up the donation-funded commission to act as both an investigative body and an 
information clearinghouse -- a panel that would also display Denver's 
ability to "think big," the paper reported.

The self-described entrepreneur admitted his own experience with aliens is 
limited. He has spotted a UFO just once -- the day Michael Jackson died.

Peckman was standing downtown, chatting on a cell phone, when a green ball 
of light flashed by. "It didn't fizzle out like a meteorite. I just stood 
there awe-struck," he said. "The next morning, I read someone had seen a green 
ball of light over Neverland," the L.A. Times reported.

Whether Peckman or his city can make friends in other galaxies is up in the 
air, but some UFO groups wish his campaign would flame out.

The commission would duplicate existing programs and hobble attempts for ET 
hunters to be taken seriously, Mark Easter, a spokesman for MUFON, in Fort 
Collins, told the L.A. Times.

"God, this is really desperate to put something on the ballot," said Julie 
Shuster, executive director of the International UFO Museum and Research 
Center in Roswell, N.M.




From epgrondine at yahoo.com  Thu Dec  3 18:34:41 2009
From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine)
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 15:34:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Are there metals at the cores of larger comets?
Message-ID: <212137.99987.qm@web36905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi - 

Has anyone here seen caarbonaceous chondrites with high metal content, or PGE meteorites with carbon?

Does anyone here know of any spectral work done on dead cores of formerly active comets?

E.P. Grondine
Man and Impact in the Americas


      


From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com  Thu Dec  3 19:40:24 2009
From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold)
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 16:40:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] new and old meteorites forsale (AD)
Message-ID: <255251.6504.qm@web57804.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Hi again list.I have 30 freebies all set with 10 more that need homes.I have 13 meteorites forsale.Some old and some new. So here goes again:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.NWA 062????? 1.4 GRAMS?? PART-SLICE?????????????????????????????? $25-
2.SANTA ROSA? 51 GRAM SLICE?????????????????????????????????????????? $250-
3.NWA 079??????????? 7.5 GRAM PART SLICE????????????????????????????? $40-
4.SIKOTE-ALIN??????? 25 GRAMS?????????????????????????????????????????????? $40-
5.GRIFFITH,TX.??????? 25 GRAMS??? SLICE????????????????????????????????$150-
6.BILANGA??????????????? 2 GRAM? FRAGMENT WITH CRUST ON BOTH SIDES OF THE FRAGMENT.?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? $50-
7.IMILAC? 4 GRAM??? ENDCUT??????????????????????????????????????????????? $50-
8.CAMPO DEL CIELO??? 1.3 KILO'S????????????????????????????????????????? $100-
9.CAMPO DEL CIELO?????? 7.5 KILO'S?????????????????????????????????????? $475-
10.NWA 085????????????? 9.5 GRAMS??????? SLICE???????????????????????????? $50-
11.GAO???? 27 GRAM? ORIENTED IND.???????????????????????????????????? $50-
12.JUANCHENG??????????? 4.5 GRAMS?????? SLICE???????????????????????? $40-
13.GAO?? 29 GRAM ORIENTED? IND.?????????????????????????????????????? $50-
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All meteorites with free shipping worldwide.Please off list.And thanks to all who responded to the freebies.
?Steve R. Arnold, Chicago!! 


From damoclid at yahoo.com  Thu Dec  3 19:45:14 2009
From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski)
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 16:45:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] How much survives entry?
Message-ID: <240146.91618.qm@web33904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Does anyone have a rough estimate on how much material, say ordinary chondrite, is lost during entry? 80% converted to light, heat and dust? 90%? 99.9%?

Thanks

--
Richard Kowalski
http://fullmoonphotography.net
IMCA #1081


      


From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Thu Dec  3 19:52:30 2009
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 16:52:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] MRO HiRISE Images - December 2, 2009
Message-ID: <200912040052.nB40qU2w019650@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>



MARS RECONNAISSANCE ORBITER HIRISE IMAGES
December 2, 2009

o Dusty Top of Alba Patera Volcano 
  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_001510_2195

o Floor of Kasei Valles
  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_001456_2010

o Flows in Athabasca Valles Source Region
  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_001408_1900

o Lobate Debris Apron in Tempe Terra/Mareotis Fossae
  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_001390_2290

o Different Types of Gullies
  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_013948_1410


All of the HiRISE images are archived here:

http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/

Information about the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter is 
online at http://www.nasa.gov/mro. The mission is 
managed by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, a division 
of the California Institute of Technology, for the NASA 
Science Mission Directorate, Washington, D.C. Lockheed 
Martin Space Systems, of Denver, is the prime contractor 
and built the spacecraft. HiRISE is operated by the 
University of Arizona. Ball Aerospace and Technologies 
Corp., of Boulder, Colo., built the HiRISE instrument.



From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Thu Dec  3 19:54:38 2009
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 16:54:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Sandtrapped Rover Makes a Big Discovery
Message-ID: <200912040054.nB40scJC020889@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>


http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2009/02dec_troy.htm

Sandtrapped Rover Makes a Big Discovery
NASA Science News
12.02.2009

*December 2, 2009:* Homer's Iliad tells the story of Troy, a city
besieged by the Greeks in the Trojan War. Today, a lone robot sits
besieged in the sands of Troy while engineers and scientists plot its
escape.

Welcome to "Troy" - Mars style. NASA's robotic rover Spirit is bogged
down on the Red Planet in a place the rover team named after the ancient
city.

So why aren't scientists lamenting?

"The rover's spinning wheels have broken through a crust, and
we've found something supremely interesting in the disturbed soil," says
Ray Arvidson of the Washington University in St. Louis.

Spirit, like its twin rover Opportunity, has roamed the Red Planet for
nearly 6 years. During that time, the rover has had some close calls and
come out fighting from each. In fact, it's been driving backwards since
one of its wheels jammed in 2006.

>From the beginning, the rovers' motto has been "follow the water." Both
rovers have been searching Mars for minerals formed in the presence of
H_2 O. Mars appears dry today, but minerals can provide clues that water
was once there.

"It's been easy for Opportunity to find such minerals," explains
Arvidson. "Opportunity landed in an ancient lake bed. Spirit has had to
work much harder. Spirit landed in basaltic plains formed by lava flows
chewed up by repeated meteoroid impacts. There's been little evidence of
anything that was ever very wet."

But when Spirit reached an area of Mars called the "Columbia Hills," the
whole complexion of the mission changed. "Spirit came across iron
hydroxide, a mineral that forms in the presence of water. That alerted
us to the change. We started coming across more and more rocks formed in
the presence of water."

Then Spirit got stuck in a patch of loose soil on the edge of a small
crater. Heavy sigh. Stuck again.

But wait!

"Spirit had to get stuck to make its next discovery," says Arvidson.

As the rover tried to break free, its wheels began to churn up the soil,
uncovering sulfates underneath.

"Sulfates are minerals just beneath the surface that shout to us that
they were formed in steam vents, since steam has sulfur in it. Steam is
associated with hydrothermal activity ??? evidence of water-charged
explosive volcanism. Such areas could have once supported life."

"And most amazingly, the boundary between the sulfate-rich soil and the
soil with just the generic concentration of sulfates runs right down the
middle of the stranded rover. Spirit is lodged on the edge of a crater
-- sitting astride the boundary!"

"Also, the robot found that the top of the sulfate material is crusty.
Ancient sulfates probably formed this crust as they were processed by
variations in climate associated with changes in Mars' orbit over
millions of years."

Here's what the scientists think: When a Martian pole faces the sun in
Martian summer, it gets warmer at that pole and the water ice shifts to
the equator. It even snows there! Warm dark soil under the snow causes
the bottom layer of snow to melt. The water trickles into the sulfates,
dissolving the water-soluble iron sulfates and forming a crust with the
calcium sulfates remaining.

"By being stuck at Troy, Spirit has been able to teach us about the
modern water cycle on Mars." Indeed, Spirit's saga at Troy has given
scientists material evidence of past water on Mars on two time scales:
ancient volcanic times, and cycles ongoing to the present day.

"We've sat here for more than 6 months. That's a long time to take
measurements. We've learned a lot. Troy is a good place to be under
siege, but we're ready to leave."

Will Spirit break free to continue its incredible journey? Tune in to
Science at NASA to find out if the escape plan works.

Author: Dauna Coulter <dauna.d.coulter at nasa.gov> | 
Editor: Dr.  Tony Phillips <james.a.phillips at earthlink.net> | 
Credit: Science at NASA <http://science.nasa.gov>



From almitt at kconline.com  Thu Dec  3 21:26:09 2009
From: almitt at kconline.com (al mitt)
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 21:26:09 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] new and old meteorites forsale (AD)
In-Reply-To: <255251.6504.qm@web57804.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
References: <255251.6504.qm@web57804.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <36CD9725B83C4FF28475F043D3D842BA@StarmanPC>

Hi Steve,

Do any of these items for sale or give a ways come with dealer cards? Are 
any of these from Bob Evan's who has been banned from this list and a good 
part of the meteorite community?

--AL Mitterling


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "steve arnold" <stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 7:40 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] new and old meteorites forsale (AD)


Hi again list.I have 30 freebies all set with 10 more that need homes.I have 
13 meteorites forsale.Some old and some new. So here goes again:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.NWA 062 1.4 GRAMS PART-SLICE $25-
2.SANTA ROSA 51 GRAM SLICE $250-
3.NWA 079 7.5 GRAM PART SLICE $40-
4.SIKOTE-ALIN 25 GRAMS $40-
5.GRIFFITH,TX. 25 GRAMS SLICE $150-
6.BILANGA 2 GRAM FRAGMENT WITH CRUST ON BOTH SIDES OF THE FRAGMENT. $50-
7.IMILAC 4 GRAM ENDCUT $50-
8.CAMPO DEL CIELO 1.3 KILO'S $100-
9.CAMPO DEL CIELO 7.5 KILO'S $475-
10.NWA 085 9.5 GRAMS SLICE $50-
11.GAO 27 GRAM ORIENTED IND. $50-
12.JUANCHENG 4.5 GRAMS SLICE $40-
13.GAO 29 GRAM ORIENTED IND. $50-
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 




From clp at alumni.caltech.edu  Thu Dec  3 22:39:40 2009
From: clp at alumni.caltech.edu (Chris Peterson)
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 20:39:40 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] How much survives entry?
References: <240146.91618.qm@web33904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5B3A8BD39F184FA4A89DDB5E30E031DC@bellatrix>

I think that you can usually figure that 95-99% of the mass of parent 
meteoroid is lost. That seems pretty consistent with the estimated mass of 
observed fireballs compared with the mass of recovered meteorites.

Obviously, what is typical is pretty loosely defined; I don't doubt that 
there are exceptions to the rule.

Chris

*****************************************
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Richard Kowalski" <damoclid at yahoo.com>
To: "meteorite list" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 5:45 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] How much survives entry?


> Does anyone have a rough estimate on how much material, say ordinary 
> chondrite, is lost during entry? 80% converted to light, heat and dust? 
> 90%? 99.9%?



From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Thu Dec  3 23:21:45 2009
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Thu, 03 Dec 2009 20:21:45 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] How much survives entry?
In-Reply-To: <5B3A8BD39F184FA4A89DDB5E30E031DC@bellatrix>
References: <240146.91618.qm@web33904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<5B3A8BD39F184FA4A89DDB5E30E031DC@bellatrix>
Message-ID: <4B188E59.10602@meteoritesusa.com>

Hi list,

How is this calculated and how do we know the 90% to 95% loss 
calculation is accurate without knowing the mass of the asteroid before 
entry and after recovery of every piece that lands on the surface of our 
planet?

Has there ever been such a case?

Regards,
Eric Wichman
Meteorites USA


Chris Peterson wrote:
> I think that you can usually figure that 95-99% of the mass of parent 
> meteoroid is lost. That seems pretty consistent with the estimated 
> mass of observed fireballs compared with the mass of recovered 
> meteorites.
>
> Obviously, what is typical is pretty loosely defined; I don't doubt 
> that there are exceptions to the rule.
>
> Chris
>
> *****************************************
> Chris L Peterson
> Cloudbait Observatory
> http://www.cloudbait.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Kowalski" 
> <damoclid at yahoo.com>
> To: "meteorite list" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 5:45 PM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] How much survives entry?
>
>
>> Does anyone have a rough estimate on how much material, say ordinary 
>> chondrite, is lost during entry? 80% converted to light, heat and 
>> dust? 90%? 99.9%?
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>



From clp at alumni.caltech.edu  Thu Dec  3 23:40:06 2009
From: clp at alumni.caltech.edu (Chris Peterson)
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 21:40:06 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] How much survives entry?
References: <240146.91618.qm@web33904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<5B3A8BD39F184FA4A89DDB5E30E031DC@bellatrix>
	<4B188E59.10602@meteoritesusa.com>
Message-ID: <0889AA1373E04023B3BD2796CE2ABBF3@bellatrix>

There are recoveries following instrumentally recorded fireballs. Initial 
mass is estimated in different ways, depending on the data available. This 
includes seismic and infrasound data as well as intensity profiles, either 
from cameras or spacecraft.

There are several papers which rigorously describe the ablation process on 
theoretical grounds, and these are also consistent with a 95%+ mass loss.

Chris

*****************************************
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Meteorites USA" <eric at meteoritesusa.com>
To: "Chris Peterson" <clp at alumni.caltech.edu>
Cc: "meteorite list" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 9:21 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] How much survives entry?


> Hi list,
>
> How is this calculated and how do we know the 90% to 95% loss calculation 
> is accurate without knowing the mass of the asteroid before entry and 
> after recovery of every piece that lands on the surface of our planet?
>
> Has there ever been such a case?



From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net  Fri Dec  4 00:08:20 2009
From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb)
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 23:08:20 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] How much survives entry?
References: <240146.91618.qm@web33904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CC9A528A36C34B1C9E692DAD3E6F6A3B@ATARIENGINE2>

There's a semantic tweak to whatever answer
is given. We presume on good evidence that
many meteoroids result in no meteorite at all
reaching the Earth. That is our assumption,
at any rate. In that case, the loss is... 100%

So, when we ask "how much of an ordinary
chondrite is lost," are we restricting the average
loss figure to only those meteoroids that produce
(or seem likely to have produced) a meteorite?
Do we leave out the class of 100%-loss meteoroids?
A bit awkward, as they may well outnumber the
meteorite-producing objects. I would say they do.

The best answers are estimates. (An estimate is
a computer model without any mathematics.) Richard
Norton said 90% was a minimum figure for ablative
loss. Chris just posted an estimate of 95% to 99%
ablative loss for meteorite-producing meteoroids.
We tend, sometimes unconsciously, to speak only
of the meteorite-producing meteoroids. I would
say that any loss less than 100% is remarkable
(and good fortune).

2008TC3 at 2 to 5 meters diameter must have
weighed between 10 and 150 metric tons. The
four kilos recovered would suggest a minimum
loss of 99.96%. Of course, there could just as
easily been 40 kilos of which only 10% was
recovered (99.6% loss). Or 400 kilos of which
only 1% was recovered (96% loss).

I think it unlikely there was 400 kilos reaching
the ground, but quite possible there were 40 kilos.
(Most likely fall weight would be 15 to 25 kilos.)
I don't think all of it was recovered. Strewn fields a
century old still yield up meteorites today. These
loss estimates are based on that lowest weight
estimate of ten tons... At an original 100 metric
tons, the losses would be an order of magnitude
higher.

Now that we've proved that meteorites are
impossible, well, ALMOST impossible, we can
say that to produce one must require something
odd about the original meteoroid --- low entry
velocity, shallow entry angle, an unusually
aerodynamic shape, or some combination of
infrequent factors.

2008TC3 had two of those characteristics.
Entry velocity was only 1600 m/s over the
Earth's escape velocity and the entry angle
was only 19 degrees above the local horizon.
It beat the odds and reached the ground,
but it paid at least a 99.9% tax to do it!


Sterling K. Webb
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Richard Kowalski" <damoclid at yahoo.com>
To: "meteorite list" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 6:45 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] How much survives entry?


> Does anyone have a rough estimate on how much material, say ordinary 
> chondrite, is lost during entry? 80% converted to light, heat and 
> dust? 90%? 99.9%?
>
> Thanks
>
> --
> Richard Kowalski
> http://fullmoonphotography.net
> IMCA #1081
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From gmhupe at htn.net  Fri Dec  4 00:15:06 2009
From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe)
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 00:15:06 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] 2008 TC3 - NatGeo TV
Message-ID: <C8D0543D4EC54F6CA1E215F53E28891A@Gregor>

Hello All,

For anyone who missed tonight's airing of National Geographic's "Naked 
Science: Countdown to Impact", it is well worth watching any second showings 
as they did a fantastic job, excellent show!! Here is a link to the web site 
for info:
http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/series/naked-science/4652/Overview

I looked for videos for sale, but nothing yet :-/

Best regards,
Greg

====================
Greg Hupe
The Hupe Collection
NaturesVault (eBay)
gmhupe at htn.net
www.LunarRock.com
IMCA 3163
====================
Click here for my current eBay auctions: 
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault




From clp at alumni.caltech.edu  Fri Dec  4 00:18:03 2009
From: clp at alumni.caltech.edu (Chris Peterson)
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 22:18:03 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] How much survives entry?
References: <240146.91618.qm@web33904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<CC9A528A36C34B1C9E692DAD3E6F6A3B@ATARIENGINE2>
Message-ID: <48F771BD5292448B8ECAFA84159576D5@bellatrix>

Whether a semantic tweak is required depends on how you look at the 
question. If you are asking how much of a meteorite's parent body was lost, 
there's no problem; it's never 100%. It is only in asking how much of a 
meteoroid survives ablation that you have to deal with the fact that it's 
usually 0%.

Chris

*****************************************
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Sterling K. Webb" <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net>
To: "Richard Kowalski" <damoclid at yahoo.com>; "meteorite list" 
<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 10:08 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] How much survives entry?


> There's a semantic tweak to whatever answer
> is given. We presume on good evidence that
> many meteoroids result in no meteorite at all
> reaching the Earth. That is our assumption,
> at any rate. In that case, the loss is... 100%



From rmforall at comcast.net  Fri Dec  4 01:29:15 2009
From: rmforall at comcast.net (Rich Murray)
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 23:29:15 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Micrometeorite impacts in Beringian mammoth tusks
	and a bison skull (large photos) abstract, RB Firestone,
	A West, JT Hagstrum, et al, AGU Fall Meeting 2007 Dec 10-14,
	more Dec 16, 2009: Rich Murray 2009.12.03
Message-ID: <71F664A273B04B029334A7362C927ED8@ownerPC>

Micrometeorite impacts in Beringian mammoth tusks and a bison skull (large 
photos) abstract, RB Firestone, A West, JT Hagstrum, et al, AGU Fall Meeting 
2007 Dec 10-14, more Dec 16, 2009: Rich Murray 2009.12.03
http://rmforall.blogspot.com/2009_12_01_archive.htm
Thursday, December 3, 2009
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/astrodeep/message/33
____________________________________________________


http://ie.lbl.gov/mammoth/impact_old.html

Micrometeorite Impacts in Beringian Mammoth Tusks
and a Bison Skull
AGU Fall Meeting, 10-14 December 2007, San Francisco, CA
Richard B. Firestone, Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory,
Berkeley, CA, 94720, United States
Allen West, GeoScience Consulting,
Dewey, AZ, 86327, United States
Zsolt Stefanka and Zsolt Revay, Institute of Isotopes,
Budapest, Hungary
Jonathon T. Hagstrum, U.S. Geological Survey,
345 Middlefield Road MS 937,
Menlo Park, CA 94025, United States

Abstract:
We have discovered what appear to be micrometeorites imbedded
in seven Alaskan Mammoth tusks and a Siberian bison skull.
The micrometeorites apparently shattered on impact
leaving 2-5 mm hemispherical debris patterns
surrounded by carbonized rings.
Multiple impacts are observed on only one side of the tusks and
skull consistent with the micrometeorites
having come from a single direction.
The impact sites are strongly magnetic
indicating significant iron content.
We analyzed several imbedded micrometeorite fragments
from both tusks and skull with
Laser Ablation Inductively-Coupled Plasma Mass Spectrometry
(LA-ICP-MS) and X-ray Fluorescence (XRF).
These analyses confirmed the high iron content and a uniform
composition highly enriched in nickel and depleted in titanium.
The Fe/Ni and Fe/Ti ratios are comparable to urelite meteorites
and are unlike any terrestrial sources.
Prompt Gamma-ray Activation Analysis (PGAA) of a
micrometeorite extracted from the bison skull indicated
it contained ~0.4 mg of iron, in agreement
with a micrometeorite ~1 mm in diameter.
Several tusks have an average radiocarbon age of ~33 ka.
This age coincides with sudden increases in global radiocarbon
~35 ka ago a and 10Be ~32 ka ago b,
the Mono Lake geomagnetic excursion ~34 ka ago c, and
significant declines in Beringian bison, horse, brown bear, and
mammoth populations and genetic diversity <36 ka ago d.
The bison skull shows evidence of new bone growth over
the micrometeorite impact sites indicating the animal survived
the bombardment and is dated at ~26 ka
which is younger than the tusks.
This age is consistent with exposure of the bison to an enriched
source of radiocarbon following the impact.
It appears likely that the impacts, cosmogenic isotope increases,
magnetic excursion, and population declines are related events
(Occam's razor), although their precise nature
remains to be determined.

a K. Hughen, et al.,
Science 303, 202-207 (2004).
b L.R. McHargue, P.E. Damon, & D.J. Donahue,
Geophys. Res. Lett. 22, 659-662 (1995).
c J.E.T. Channell,
Earth Planet. Sci. Lett. 244, 379-393 (2006).
d I. Barnes, et al,
Current Biology 17, 1-4 (2007).

Tusk Photos, click on image to enlarge

Figure 1. Embedded iron particles surrounded by carbonized rings
in the bark of an Alaskan Mammoth tusk.
The inclusions all attract a magnet suspended nearby.
Note that the inclusion on the side ripped through the tusk.

Figure 2. Numerous impact sites are seen on another Alaskan tusk.

Figure 3. Siberian bison skull containing numerous iron particle
impact sites that stongly attract a magnet.

Figure 4. Close-up of impact site and side x-ray through the tusk
indicating that the particle exploded forming a hemispherical
debris pattern.

Figure 5. Siberian bison skull with embedded iron particles.
Significant skull growth around the particles indicated that
the bison survived the impact.

Figure 6. Top x-ray of tusk particles show that they penetrate
the tusk.

Figure 7. More tusk particles with characteristic burn ring.

Figure 8. Closeup view of an iron particle embedded
in a bison skull.

Figure 9. Additional tusk particles.

Figure 10. Photograph of the surface pit from a micrometeorite
on the vycor window of the MA-9 Mercury spacecraft.
Note the similarities to the mammoth tusk impact pits.

Richard B. Firestone, e-mail: rbf at lbl.gov
Ernest O. Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory
MailStop 88-R0192
1 Cyclotron Road, Berkeley, CA 94720
Phone: 510-486-7646 Fax: 510-486-5757


AGU Fall Meeting 2009
ID# PP31D-1385
Location: Poster Hall (Moscone South)
Time of Presentation:
Dec 16 8:00 AM - 12:20 PM

Beringian Megafaunal Extinctions at ~37 ka B.P.:
Do Micrometeorites Embedded in Fossil Tusks and Skulls
Indicate an Extraterrestial Precursor to the Younger Dryas Event?
J. T. Hagstrum 1; R. B. Firestone 2; A. West 3
1. U.S. Geological Survey, Menlo Park, CA, USA.
2. Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory, Berkeley, CA, USA.
3. GeoScience Consulting, Dewey, AZ, USA.

Studies of Late Pleistocene megafaunal fossils and their ancient
DNA from Beringia
(eastern Siberia, Alaska, and the emerged Bering Strait) indicate
sharp declines in steppe bison population diversity and
horse body size, extinction of the Alaskan wild ass, and
local extinctions of brown bear and woolly mammoth genetic
lines beginning at about 37 ka B.P.
Beringia is also well known for its remarkably preserved
Late Pleistocene frozen animal mummies.
14C ages of these mummies are bimodally distributed, having peaks
coincident with the earlier ~37 ka B.P., and ~13 ka B.P.
Younger Dryas, onset extinction events.
Associated with the ~37 ka B.P. event are, for example, the
Berezovka mammoth, headless Selerikan horse, steppe bison
"Blue Babe", and baby mammoths "Dima" and "Lyuba".
Analyses of these and other mummies indicate that they died
instantly, in mostly healthy condition, with gut contents and
high fat reserves indicative of a late summer to autumn season.
An assortment of uneaten limbs and other body parts from a
variety of species have also been found.
Uniformitarian death scenarios inadequately account for the lack
of evidence of normal predation and scavenging.
Extensive internal injuries (e.g. large bone fractures, hemorrhaging)
and apparent rapid burial of the mummies also indicate that
something truly unusual happened at the time of these
extinction events.
We have discovered what appear to be micrometeorites
embedded in seven Alaskan mammoth tusks and a Siberian bison
skull acquired from commercial sources.
14C ages for five of these fossils have a weighted mean age of
33 ? 2 ka B.P.
Laser ablation ICP-MS and XRF analyses of the particles indicate
high Fe contents with compositions enriched in Ni and depleted in
Ti, similar to Fe meteorites and unlike any natural terrestrial sources.
Microprobe analyses of a Fe-Ni sulfide grain from tusk 2 also show
that it contains between 3 and 20 weight percent Ni.
SEM images and XRF analyses of a bison skull fragment show
sharp-edged channels (~0.1 mm across) containing Fe sulfide
material with botryoidal texture that appears to have cooled from
a molten state.
Multiple embedded particles are observed on only one side of the
tusk and skull fossils, consistent with micrometeorites coming
from a single direction.
During recent visits to natural history collections in Berkeley, CA,
New York City, and London, UK, embedded Fe-rich particles
were uncovered in an additional 13 Alaskan bison, horse, and
musk ox skulls, and a Siberian Elasmotherium skull.
We propose that the extinctions, embedded micrometeorites, and
frozen mummies contemporaneous with the ~37 ka B.P. event all
resulted from an airburst (similar to the 1908 Tunguska event), or
series of airbursts, across Beringia due to the breakup and deep
atmospheric penetration of an Fe-Ni asteroid.
The micrometeorites can be envisioned as shrapnel traveling within
the blast wave(s).
The instantaneous deaths, internal injuries, and possible traumatic
amputations and decapitations in megafaunal mummies are
consistent with blast injuries related to such a catastrophic scenario.

Contact Information
Jonathan T. Hagstrum, Menlo Park, California, USA,
94025-3561 click here to send an email
 jhag at usgs.gov  AGU-FM09: Question regarding PP31D-1385:
ScholarOne Abstracts? (patent #7,257,767 and #7,263,655).
? ScholarOne, Inc., 2009. All Rights Reserved.
ScholarOne Abstracts and ScholarOne are registered trademarks
of ScholarOne, Inc.
____________________________________________________


exact Carolina Bay crater locations, RB Firestone, A West, et al, two
YD reviews, 2008 June, 2009 Nov, also 3 upcoming abstracts:
Rich Murray 2009.11.14
http://rmforall.blogspot.com/2009_11_01_archive.htm
Saturday, November 14, 2009
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/astrodeep/message/31

Rich Murray, MA
Boston University Graduate School 1967 psychology,
BS MIT 1964, history and physics,
1943 Otowi Road, Santa Fe, New Mexico 87505
505-501-2298  rmforall at comcast.net

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AstroDeep/messages

http://RMForAll.blogspot.com new primary archive

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aspartameNM/messages
group with 143 members, 1,590 posts in a public archive

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aspartame/messages
group with 1209 members, 23,973 posts in a public archive

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rmforall/messages

participant, Santa Fe Complex www.sfcomplex.org
____________________________________________________



From gsac at gmx.net  Fri Dec  4 08:10:18 2009
From: gsac at gmx.net (Alexander Seidel)
Date: Fri, 04 Dec 2009 14:10:18 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] How much survives entry?
In-Reply-To: <CC9A528A36C34B1C9E692DAD3E6F6A3B@ATARIENGINE2>
References: <240146.91618.qm@web33904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<CC9A528A36C34B1C9E692DAD3E6F6A3B@ATARIENGINE2>
Message-ID: <20091204131018.245580@gmx.net>

> 2008TC3 at 2 to 5 meters diameter must have
> weighed between 10 and 150 metric tons. The
> four kilos recovered would suggest a minimum
> loss of 99.96%. Of course, there could just as
> easily been 40 kilos of which only 10% was
> recovered (99.6% loss). Or 400 kilos of which
> only 1% was recovered (96% loss).
> 
> I think it unlikely there was 400 kilos reaching
> the ground, but quite possible there were 40 kilos.
> (Most likely fall weight would be 15 to 25 kilos.)
> I don't think all of it was recovered. Strewn fields a
> century old still yield up meteorites today. These
> loss estimates are based on that lowest weight
> estimate of ten tons... At an original 100 metric
> tons, the losses would be an order of magnitude
> higher.


Regarding 2008TC3, I would like to point at a new and,
in my opinion, excellent 4-page-update-summary issued 
by the NATURE magazine:

"The impact and recovery of asteroid 2008TC3"
P. Jenniskens et al., NATURE, Vol 458/26 March 2009

You have to pay a fee for an online-copy of the paper 
when you enter the NATURE website, but may be Professor 
Jenniskens or Professor Shaddad from Khartoum would be 
willing to share sort of a preprint or reprint - don?t 
know. Sorry, I have no email addresses at hands... 

Alex
Berlin/Germany


From fujmon at mac.com  Fri Dec  4 12:13:49 2009
From: fujmon at mac.com (Gary Fujihara)
Date: Fri, 04 Dec 2009 07:13:49 -1000
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD-December Deals end Sat on eBay
Message-ID: <1BFF1513-19DE-4C54-940A-080E483280CD@mac.com>

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NWA x 82g, 164g  unclassified possible type 3 complete, <$2/g
ALLENDE CV3 12.68g, 20g Dealers Lot, starting bid <$5/g
ALLENDE CV3 various frags starting from 99?
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MILLBILLILLIE Euc  2.75g AAA Oriented, one of the last
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From clp at alumni.caltech.edu  Fri Dec  4 14:47:36 2009
From: clp at alumni.caltech.edu (Chris Peterson)
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 12:47:36 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] How much survives entry?
References: <20091204140205.9NWJK.51570.imail@fed1rmwml30>
Message-ID: <1A31A56AEA234E4583A230333F3D8BF7@bellatrix>

I didn't say semantic tweaks don't matter... I only said that their need 
depends on how the question is phrased.

The examples you give describe variations in physical conditions, not 
semantics. As I also noted in my original post, there has to be a very wide 
variation in reality, making it difficult to define "typical".

I don't believe I used the value "99.9%" in my responses. What I said is 
that you can probably safely assume that in the majority of cases more than 
95% of the original mass is lost.

Carancas is a poor example for just about anything, being a singular event. 
However, even that case doesn't seem unreasonable. If we assume the impactor 
was 1 ton (about 1 meter diameter), a 95% loss means the parent was 20 tons 
(about 2 meter diameter); if we assume a 99% loss, the parent was 100 tons 
(about 4 meter diameter). These numbers are perfectly reasonable and 
believable. Of course, Carancas almost certainly had less than the usual 
amount of ablation because it impacted before ablation had stopped.

Yes, estimates are a kind of guess. But "guess" doesn't have to mean a 
random choice. The idea that the parent bodies of most meteorites lost more 
than 95% of their mass to ablation is based on solid theory and observation.

Chris

*****************************************
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <cdtucson at cox.net>
To: "Chris Peterson" <clp at alumni.caltech.edu>; "meteoritelist" 
<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 12:02 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] How much survives entry?


> Chris,
> Again, With all due respect.
> How can you say semantic tweaks don't matter?
> Semantics are everything.
> I know he asked about chondrites but they do vary in density.
> What if it is Iron vs, very low density like a CI1?
> What if it is huge vs. tiny?
> What if it is traveling at a super fast speed at a very steep angle?
> It seems TC3 came in at an angle that would argue that there would be very 
> material little left. It also is a very porous and fragile material which 
> would also lend itself to quick destruction entering our atmosphere. 
> According to the show there was two different materials found. So, this 
> meteoroid was made up of different materials which would contribute to 
> break-up vs, holding itself together.
> Simple Examples here; as Sterling said without math.
> What if you put an iron meteorite into a rock tumbler. And then you put a 
> CI1 into a similar rock tumbler. The amount of time it would require for 
> these different rocks to end up as dust would be quite significant, 
> wouldn't it? And given there is a very small time table for the ablation 
> process to occur it seems obvious that the time spent in the ablation 
> process alone would be sufficient to prove that the density of the 
> meteoroid matters a lot.
> Secondly, The size of the material has a lot to do with ablation. Also 
> based on time in ablation zone of the atmosphere.
> Using the same scenario, if you put say a marble size piece of  meteorite 
> along with a baseball size piece of the same meteorite. The marble size 
> will have ablated to 100% dust far before the larger piece. Simple logic 
> here.
> Please tell me how this example does not argue that it is in fact possible 
> for a very high percentage of the material to survive.
> Lets say it's a mile wide iron traveling super fast at a 90 degree angle 
> (which would get it through the ablation zone very quickly). It seems that 
> it is very possible for most of it to survive.
> Based on your 99.9% guess. that would mean that Carancas would have 
> entered our atmosphere the size of a small planet. We recovered aprox. 10 
> kilos and guesstimates are that most of it was lost to the crater. So, if 
> you take whatever the guess is for the size that hit the ground and 
> multiply it by 99.9% that means it would have been possibly miles wide. If 
> it was I am surprised nobody saw it coming. Even with this highly studied 
> event. The scientists are still arguing about the speed. One says it came 
> in very fast while another says it came in very slow. Either way it seems 
> to me the size estimate would also vary.
> So, isn't any estimate a mere guess at best? Thanks Carl
> --
> Carl or Debbie Esparza



From STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com  Fri Dec  4 15:05:22 2009
From: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com (STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 15:05:22 EST
Subject: [meteorite-list] TC3 show and an observation
Message-ID: <bc2.5899a336.384ac582@aol.com>

Hi List,  I watched the National  Geographic's "Naked Science: Countdown to 
Impact" which is the story of  asteroid/meteorite TC3. 

What caught my attention was the diversity of  material within the samples 
collected.   After a few years of  weathering, would all those stones even 
be thought to of come from the same  fall?   It got me wondering about the 
diversity in other meteorite  material.

Have others working with meteorites noticed large diversity in  material 
type within a group of named samples.  I'm not talking about a  single stone 
(perhaps even brecciated) but rather a fall with a large number of  recovered 
individuals.  

I am not an expert but I have cut, polished  and examined mare than an 
average amount of meteorites and in those named  materials where I have cut into 
more than 50 stones, most have such a large  diversity I could send in a 
type sample that would support any thing from a type  3 to a 6.  

Some primary examples are SaU 001, JaH 055, JaH 073 and  the provisional 
NWA 5142.

These examples are only those where I have cut  a large amount.  There must 
be other more dramatic examples others have  noticed.

Aside from that question I had,  it was a great informative  and 
entertaining show.  Well done!

for info on the show  see:
http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/series/naked-science/4652/Overview

Tom  Phillips  



From damoclid at yahoo.com  Fri Dec  4 15:25:51 2009
From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski)
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 12:25:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] How much survives entry?
In-Reply-To: <20091204131018.245580@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <728896.55099.qm@web33905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

That paper is available for free on Google Docs here:

http://tinyurl.com/yl7bvbg

--
Richard Kowalski
http://fullmoonphotography.net
IMCA #1081


--- On Fri, 12/4/09, Alexander Seidel <gsac at gmx.net> wrote:

> From: Alexander Seidel <gsac at gmx.net>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] How much survives entry?
> To: "Sterling K. Webb" <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net>, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, damoclid at yahoo.com
> Date: Friday, December 4, 2009, 6:10 AM
> > 2008TC3 at 2 to 5 meters
> diameter must have
> > weighed between 10 and 150 metric tons. The
> > four kilos recovered would suggest a minimum
> > loss of 99.96%. Of course, there could just as
> > easily been 40 kilos of which only 10% was
> > recovered (99.6% loss). Or 400 kilos of which
> > only 1% was recovered (96% loss).
> > 
> > I think it unlikely there was 400 kilos reaching
> > the ground, but quite possible there were 40 kilos.
> > (Most likely fall weight would be 15 to 25 kilos.)
> > I don't think all of it was recovered. Strewn fields
> a
> > century old still yield up meteorites today. These
> > loss estimates are based on that lowest weight
> > estimate of ten tons... At an original 100 metric
> > tons, the losses would be an order of magnitude
> > higher.
> 
> 
> Regarding 2008TC3, I would like to point at a new and,
> in my opinion, excellent 4-page-update-summary issued 
> by the NATURE magazine:
> 
> "The impact and recovery of asteroid 2008TC3"
> P. Jenniskens et al., NATURE, Vol 458/26 March 2009
> 
> You have to pay a fee for an online-copy of the paper 
> when you enter the NATURE website, but may be Professor 
> Jenniskens or Professor Shaddad from Khartoum would be 
> willing to share sort of a preprint or reprint - don?t 
> know. Sorry, I have no email addresses at hands... 
> 
> Alex
> Berlin/Germany
> 


      


From damoclid at yahoo.com  Fri Dec  4 15:42:22 2009
From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski)
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 12:42:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] How much survives entry?
In-Reply-To: <CC9A528A36C34B1C9E692DAD3E6F6A3B@ATARIENGINE2>
Message-ID: <43699.47901.qm@web33903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Sorry for my poorly formed query.
I certainly did not mean that we'd include meteoroids that were so small that they completely burned up before becoming meteorites on the surface. I figured that was a given.

My mistake.

Yes and I did try to be a bit subtle in my query and ask about an ordinary chondrite instead of an Ureilite just to make the back of the envelope calculations easier. I am assuming someone somewhere has tested actual chondritic material in a hypersonic plasma tunnel to measure the exact amount of ablation and possibly someone here knew that result. That way it wouldn't be a guess but an actual measurement. Now that I've thought about it some more I know someone who may have already performed that experiment, so I'll contact him...

Too me, 99.9% seems to me to be an excessive amount of loss due to ablation and disintegration, but maybe I'm wrong. Anyway, even if you use that number, with 2008 TC3 "weighing" an estimated 72,600 kilos before entry. 99.9% loss would mean there is still about 65 kilos of material on the ground in the Sudan that has not yet been recovered.

--
Richard Kowalski
http://fullmoonphotography.net
IMCA #1081



      


From michael at rocksfromspace.org  Fri Dec  4 15:44:34 2009
From: michael at rocksfromspace.org (Michael Johnson)
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 12:44:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December 4,
	2009
Message-ID: <402979120.102321259959474256.JavaMail.root@mbs1.homesteadmail.com>

http://www.rocksfromspace.org/December_4_2009.html



From stanleygregr at hotmail.com  Fri Dec  4 15:51:07 2009
From: stanleygregr at hotmail.com (Greg Stanley)
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 12:51:07 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] TC3 show and an observation
In-Reply-To: <bc2.5899a336.384ac582@aol.com>
References: <bc2.5899a336.384ac582@aol.com>
Message-ID: <SNT117-W313B0131ACB76C7BD85120D2930@phx.gbl>


Tom:

Very interesting point.? As you may know, many of the meteorites found on Dry Lakes are different, ranging from H3 - H6, L3 - L6 and even some LL's.? I'm not a specialist but I've thought the same.? If a large asteroid (or meteor) exploded above the area, of what is now a dry lake, perhaps 100's or even 1000's of pieces, different types could be spread over many square miles.? However, they also could be meteorites from multiple falls ocurring over last 20,000 years.? BTW - the show "NAked Science"about TC3 was very interesting and I enjoyed it very much.? Thanks to everyone involved with it.

Greg S.

----------------------------------------
> From: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com
> Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 15:05:22 -0500
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: [meteorite-list] TC3 show and an observation
>
> Hi List, I watched the National Geographic's "Naked Science: Countdown to
> Impact" which is the story of asteroid/meteorite TC3.
>
> What caught my attention was the diversity of material within the samples
> collected. After a few years of weathering, would all those stones even
> be thought to of come from the same fall? It got me wondering about the
> diversity in other meteorite material.
>
> Have others working with meteorites noticed large diversity in material
> type within a group of named samples. I'm not talking about a single stone
> (perhaps even brecciated) but rather a fall with a large number of recovered
> individuals.
>
> I am not an expert but I have cut, polished and examined mare than an
> average amount of meteorites and in those named materials where I have cut into
> more than 50 stones, most have such a large diversity I could send in a
> type sample that would support any thing from a type 3 to a 6.
>
> Some primary examples are SaU 001, JaH 055, JaH 073 and the provisional
> NWA 5142.
>
> These examples are only those where I have cut a large amount. There must
> be other more dramatic examples others have noticed.
>
> Aside from that question I had, it was a great informative and
> entertaining show. Well done!
>
> for info on the show see:
> http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/series/naked-science/4652/Overview
>
> Tom Phillips
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Get gifts for them and cashback for you. Try Bing now.
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From damoclid at yahoo.com  Fri Dec  4 16:10:55 2009
From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski)
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 13:10:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] How much survives entry?
In-Reply-To: <43699.47901.qm@web33903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <184451.69006.qm@web33901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

A quick search of ADS, which i probably should have done in the first place, reveals only two papers on this and this one:

DEPTH DEPENDENCE OF 22Ne/21Ne IN ORDINARY CHONDRITES AND
ABLATION OF METEORITES V.A. Alexeev, Vernadsky Institute of Geochemistry and
Analytical Chemistry, Russian Academy of Sciences, 117975, Moscow, Russia
(aval at icp.ac.ru)

http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2003/pdf/1003.pdf

may be of interest to others.

Not a direct ablation experiment, but it is interesting to see most of their calculations show anywhere from 14% to 99%+ ablation for various samples, with the majority in the 90s.

 
--
Richard Kowalski
http://fullmoonphotography.net
IMCA #1081



      


From cynapse at charter.net  Fri Dec  4 16:14:43 2009
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Fri, 04 Dec 2009 16:14:43 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Just change the gravitational constant of the
	universe!
In-Reply-To: <1A31A56AEA234E4583A230333F3D8BF7@bellatrix>
References: <20091204140205.9NWJK.51570.imail@fed1rmwml30>
	<1A31A56AEA234E4583A230333F3D8BF7@bellatrix>
Message-ID: <iluih5l555ah1i76jn396npjvvnf2cr9l0@4ax.com>

But, since John de Lancie isn't handy:

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/12/asteroid-deflection-tether/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+wired%2Findex+%28Wired%3A+Index+3+%28Top+Stories+2%29%29

To Deflect an Asteroid, Try a Lasso, Not a Nuke

    * By Adam Mann
    * December 4, 2009

To save the world from the real threat of a major asteroid impact, one engineer
has imagined a scheme similar to George Bailey?s wish to lasso the moon for his
sweetheart in ?It?s a Wonderful Life.?

The plan is to attach a gigantic weight to an Earth-bound asteroid using an
enormous cord. This crazy-sounding contraption would change the asteroid?s
center of mass and subsequently its trajectory, averting a potentially
catastrophic scenario.

Aerospace engineer Major David French of the Air Force Institute of Technology
mathematically modeled how different weights and lengths of tether would affect
a killer asteroid?s orbit over time. The results are in the December issue of
Acta Astronautica.

He found that, in general, longer tethers and larger masses would more
significantly change the asteroid?s orbit. The alteration would occur slowly,
taking anywhere from 10 to 50 years.

The technique would require no simple mission. The cosmic counterweight would
tip the scale at billions of pounds, while the rope would range anywhere from
six miles (about the height of Mount Everest), to 60,000 miles (long enough to
wrap around Earth two and a half times).

This solution may sound unrealistic, but the threat is real. To date, NASA?s
Near Earth Object Program, which tracks asteroids and comets that could approach
the planet, has cataloged more than 5,500 objects. About 1,000 of these are
classified as ?potentially hazardous,? meaning they could wipe out a city, spawn
giant tsunamis or, in the worst case, eradicate life with a planet-shrouding
cloud of debris.

To guard against this, scientists have produced many dramatic proposals, each
with its own merits. French thinks his technique stands out for its relative
ease.

?What interested me was that there is no active control system needed,? he said.
Once the rope and weight were installed, the asteroid would get nudged through
nothing but the laws of gravity.

However, the method is not lacking critics.

?This tether-deflection idea is an interesting intellectual exercise,? said
astronomer David Morrison of the Asteroid and Comet Impact Hazards Group at
NASA?s Ames Research Center. ?But it is of no practical value.?

Morrison points out that putting enormous objects, such as a heavy tether and
ballast, in space is far beyond the entire human race?s launch capability.
Furthermore, the cost of designing and building a strong enough rope makes the
solution intractable.

?From a practical point of view, the technique is a mess,? agreed Russell
Schweickart, former Apollo astronaut and co-founder of the B612 Foundation, a
group dedicated to protecting the Earth from asteroid strikes. He is concerned
that no one knows how to hook a tether to a spinning asteroid and, once
attached, there is no guarantee the line won?t get tangled up.

Schweickart and Morrison offer a much simpler idea that uses current technology:
Change the asteroid?s orbit by crashing something into it. Even a relatively
small satellite would alter the orbit enough to stave off certain doom, if we
did it far enough in advance.

French understands these criticisms and thinks they are well-founded. But, he
said Earth will still need protection from asteroids in the next century, and
the next millennium. If our technology and expertise isn?t enough to lasso an
asteroid right now, we have time.

?The last extinction-level asteroid strike was 65 million years ago,? he said,
?I think it?s important to take the long view and maybe dig into technology that
is not quite ready.?


From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net  Fri Dec  4 16:36:22 2009
From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb)
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 15:36:22 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] How much survives entry?
References: <43699.47901.qm@web33903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <455822B5668D44FEB184DE18A875BF53@ATARIENGINE2>

Hi, All,

Chris said:
> If you are asking how much of a meteorite's
> parent body was lost, there's no problem; it's
> never 100%. It is only in asking how much of a
> meteoroid survives ablation that you have to deal
> with the fact that it's usually 0%.

That encapsulates two ways of looking at this question.
One is to discuss a specific meteoroid / meteorite
and try to deduce the specific results. The other
way is as a general question concerning the entire
CLASS of meteoroids / meteorites. I took the question
in the general sense. Taxonomy, in other words.

And, just as in all natural science, there is considerable
variation in individuals and the conditions of re-entry.
A plasma jet experiment will tell you ablation rates
for various speeds on a specific or generalized material,
but practically, this only provides broad boundaries to
the problem. Very broad boundaries, because of the
variances in speed, duration and the character of the
material being ablated.

If, for example 2003TC3 had entered at 45 degrees
to the horizon at an encounter velocity of 27,500 m/s,
I can practically guarantee you nothing would have
reached the ground, whether it weighed 10 tons,
100 tons, or 1000 tons.

[In case there are quibbles with this, yes, it would
likely fragment at high altitude, but the fragments
would be moving faster than 12,000 m/s and would
never withstand ablation long enough to hit. I also
did the calculation for both shallow entries and
high-angle entries at this speed and the result is
the same. Speed kills.]

There are so many possible events that an empirical
general answer can probably only be reached by the
long-term continued operation of fireball tracking
networks. So far, they suggest many meteoroids and
far fewer meteorites.



Sterling K. Webb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Richard Kowalski" <damoclid at yahoo.com>
To: "meteorite list" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>; "Sterling K. 
Webb" <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 2:42 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] How much survives entry?


> Sorry for my poorly formed query.
> I certainly did not mean that we'd include meteoroids that were so 
> small that they completely burned up before becoming meteorites on the 
> surface. I figured that was a given.
>
> My mistake.
>
> Yes and I did try to be a bit subtle in my query and ask about an 
> ordinary chondrite instead of an Ureilite just to make the back of the 
> envelope calculations easier. I am assuming someone somewhere has 
> tested actual chondritic material in a hypersonic plasma tunnel to 
> measure the exact amount of ablation and possibly someone here knew 
> that result. That way it wouldn't be a guess but an actual 
> measurement. Now that I've thought about it some more I know someone 
> who may have already performed that experiment, so I'll contact him...
>
> Too me, 99.9% seems to me to be an excessive amount of loss due to 
> ablation and disintegration, but maybe I'm wrong. Anyway, even if you 
> use that number, with 2008 TC3 "weighing" an estimated 72,600 kilos 
> before entry. 99.9% loss would mean there is still about 65 kilos of 
> material on the ground in the Sudan that has not yet been recovered.
>
> --
> Richard Kowalski
> http://fullmoonphotography.net
> IMCA #1081
>
>
>
> 



From damoclid at yahoo.com  Fri Dec  4 19:24:37 2009
From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski)
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 16:24:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Just change the gravitational constant of the
	universe!
In-Reply-To: <iluih5l555ah1i76jn396npjvvnf2cr9l0@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <546486.86504.qm@web33908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Yep, there are many creative ideas on how to deflect an NEO that is found on an impacting orbit. Many, but far from all of them are described if you follow the "many dramatic proposals" link in that article.

Thought many sound interesting, if you discuss the issue with most of the experts in the field, they'll pretty much all concede that the most likely method to be used will be one or more nuclear weapons used in "stand off" mode even if they officially advocate other methods.


--
Richard Kowalski
http://fullmoonphotography.net
IMCA #1081


--- On Fri, 12/4/09, Darren Garrison <cynapse at charter.net> wrote:

> From: Darren Garrison <cynapse at charter.net>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Just change the gravitational constant of the universe!

> But, since John de Lancie isn't
> handy:
> 
> http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/12/asteroid-deflection-tether/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+wired%2Findex+%28Wired%3A+Index+3+%28Top+Stories+2%29%29
> 
> To Deflect an Asteroid, Try a Lasso, Not a Nuke


      


From damoclid at yahoo.com  Fri Dec  4 19:37:56 2009
From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski)
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 16:37:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] 2008 TC3 - NatGeo TV
In-Reply-To: <C8D0543D4EC54F6CA1E215F53E28891A@Gregor>
Message-ID: <882468.15642.qm@web33901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Thanks Greg and everyone who has contacted me about the show on or off list. I'm glad you enjoyed it. I'm sure most of the footage from everyone interviewed ended up on the cutting room floor. They shot a lot more footage at Mt. Lemmon. The total time was about 13 hours of effort that day.

For those who inquired, the time lapse shown was one I just happened to have made the night 2008 TC3 was discovered. If you have a high speed connection, you can watch the entire time lapse as a Flash animation on my commercial site here:

http://www.fullmoonphotography.net/g96_2008_10_06.htm

As for Greg's comment about finding the program for sale, I do not know when or if the program will ever be offered. National Geographic Channel apparently does not offer any of their "Naked Science" series episodes for sale. That's a shame because they do have many interesting programs, including a number about asteroids, meteorites, impact glass, etc...

For those of you who would like a copy, I can only suggest you record it some other time it runs or if you don't get NatGeo, ask a friend to record it for you. You might also contact NatGeo to inquire if or when they'll have discs for sale. Maybe if enough people ask, they'll offer them. 


--
Richard Kowalski
http://fullmoonphotography.net
IMCA #1081


--- On Thu, 12/3/09, Greg Hupe <gmhupe at htn.net> wrote:

> From: Greg Hupe <gmhupe at htn.net>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] 2008 TC3 - NatGeo TV
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Thursday, December 3, 2009, 10:15 PM
> Hello All,
> 
> For anyone who missed tonight's airing of National
> Geographic's "Naked Science: Countdown to Impact", it is
> well worth watching any second showings as they did a
> fantastic job, excellent show!! Here is a link to the web
> site for info:
> http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/series/naked-science/4652/Overview
> 
> I looked for videos for sale, but nothing yet :-/
> 
> Best regards,
> Greg
> 
> ====================
> Greg Hupe
> The Hupe Collection
> NaturesVault (eBay)
> gmhupe at htn.net
> www.LunarRock.com
> IMCA 3163
> ====================
> Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      


From gmhupe at htn.net  Fri Dec  4 20:20:53 2009
From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe)
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 20:20:53 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] HUGE Chondrule Status - Relisted Lower
Message-ID: <33F03253520F44AC843F8A54ADD3DDD4@Gregor>

Dear List Members,

I had a number of folks contact me asking what the status of the meteorite 
with the HUGE Chondrule was. NWA 5486 did not sell at my initial asking 
price so I loaded it back on eBay and slashed the starting price to almost 
half of what I was first offering it at. With well over 200 people who 
looked at the auction first round, I think someone will snag it this time!

I loaded the "One-of-a-Kind" ~ NWA 5486 and about a dozen severely 
discounted Unclassified NWA meteorites that did not sell last round either. 
All have been listed for 10 days while I am out of town. I will not be able 
to answer any questions during this time, most likely no email access, 
sorry!

Click here for these and all of my current eBay auctions: 
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault
(This is my AD for next week, a few days early. Thanks for your 
understanding!)

Have a great weekend!

Best regards,
Greg

====================
Greg Hupe
The Hupe Collection
NaturesVault (eBay)
gmhupe at htn.net
www.LunarRock.com
IMCA 3163
====================
Click here for my current eBay auctions: 
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault




From cynapse at charter.net  Fri Dec  4 20:59:49 2009
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Fri, 04 Dec 2009 20:59:49 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Just change the gravitational constant of the
	universe!
In-Reply-To: <546486.86504.qm@web33908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <iluih5l555ah1i76jn396npjvvnf2cr9l0@4ax.com>
	<546486.86504.qm@web33908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <qgfjh5t0f3onh8ltjgg48d0nu0vcmltl5s@4ax.com>

On Fri, 4 Dec 2009 16:24:37 -0800 (PST), you wrote:

>Thought many sound interesting, if you discuss the issue with most of the 
>experts in the field, they'll pretty much all concede that the most likely 
>method to be used will be one or more nuclear weapons used in "stand 
>off" mode even if they officially advocate other methods.

I'll have to disagree with the experts there-- I think the most likely and
viable approach is the KYAGB maneuver.


From epgrondine at yahoo.com  Fri Dec  4 21:18:38 2009
From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine)
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 18:18:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Zamanshin impact and Homo Heidelbergensis
Message-ID: <397422.86389.qm@web36901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi - 

While this is far from meteorites, it does concern impacts, and specifically the Zamanshin impact. 

I received grief for using the term Homo Heidelbergensis in my book for this fellow, even though I added in a footnote that the taxonomy was confused:

http://archaeologica.boardbot.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2381

Note that no name is given for this homonid right now.

This homonid was likely the common ancestor for sapiens and neanderthal, with the two populations split by the Zamanshin impact.

E.P Grondine
Man and Impact in the Americas




      


From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com  Fri Dec  4 22:23:52 2009
From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's)
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 19:23:52 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Just change the gravitational constant of the
	universe!
Message-ID: <COL108-W70536996290787CBE5C109B920@phx.gbl>


Hi Darren, All,

Since it's nearly impossible to do the KYAGB manuever yourself, maybe figuring a plan on getting acquainted with a super model instead. Best way to go, I think.

Carl



Darren wrote:
>I'll have to disagree with the experts there-- I think the most likely and
viable approach is the KYAGB maneuver.
_____ 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live Hotmail gives you a free,exclusive  gift.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/hotmail_bl1/hotmail_bl1.aspx?ocid=PID23879::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-ww:WM_IMHM_7:092009

From cdtucson at cox.net  Fri Dec  4 14:02:05 2009
From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net)
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 14:02:05 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] How much survives entry?
Message-ID: <20091204140205.9NWJK.51570.imail@fed1rmwml30>

Chris,
Again, With all due respect.
How can you say semantic tweaks don't matter?
Semantics are everything. 
I know he asked about chondrites but they do vary in density.
What if it is Iron vs, very low density like a CI1?
What if it is huge vs. tiny?
What if it is traveling at a super fast speed at a very steep angle?
It seems TC3 came in at an angle that would argue that there would be very material little left. It also is a very porous and fragile material which would also lend itself to quick destruction entering our atmosphere. According to the show there was two different materials found. So, this meteoroid was made up of different materials which would contribute to break-up vs, holding itself together. 
Simple Examples here; as Sterling said without math. 
What if you put an iron meteorite into a rock tumbler. And then you put a CI1 into a similar rock tumbler. The amount of time it would require for these different rocks to end up as dust would be quite significant, wouldn't it? And given there is a very small time table for the ablation process to occur it seems obvious that the time spent in the ablation process alone would be sufficient to prove that the density of the meteoroid matters a lot.
Secondly, The size of the material has a lot to do with ablation. Also based on time in ablation zone of the atmosphere. 
Using the same scenario, if you put say a marble size piece of  meteorite along with a baseball size piece of the same meteorite. The marble size will have ablated to 100% dust far before the larger piece. Simple logic here. 
Please tell me how this example does not argue that it is in fact possible for a very high percentage of the material to survive. 
Lets say it's a mile wide iron traveling super fast at a 90 degree angle (which would get it through the ablation zone very quickly). It seems that it is very possible for most of it to survive. 
Based on your 99.9% guess. that would mean that Carancas would have entered our atmosphere the size of a small planet. We recovered aprox. 10 kilos and guesstimates are that most of it was lost to the crater. So, if you take whatever the guess is for the size that hit the ground and multiply it by 99.9% that means it would have been possibly miles wide. If it was I am surprised nobody saw it coming. Even with this highly studied event. The scientists are still arguing about the speed. One says it came in very fast while another says it came in very slow. Either way it seems to me the size estimate would also vary. 
So, isn't any estimate a mere guess at best? Thanks Carl
--
Carl or Debbie Esparza
Meteoritemax


---- Chris Peterson <clp at alumni.caltech.edu> wrote: 
> Whether a semantic tweak is required depends on how you look at the 
> question. If you are asking how much of a meteorite's parent body was lost, 
> there's no problem; it's never 100%. It is only in asking how much of a 
> meteoroid survives ablation that you have to deal with the fact that it's 
> usually 0%.
> 
> Chris
> 
> *****************************************
> Chris L Peterson
> Cloudbait Observatory
> http://www.cloudbait.com
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Sterling K. Webb" <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "Richard Kowalski" <damoclid at yahoo.com>; "meteorite list" 
> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 10:08 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] How much survives entry?
> 
> 
> > There's a semantic tweak to whatever answer
> > is given. We presume on good evidence that
> > many meteoroids result in no meteorite at all
> > reaching the Earth. That is our assumption,
> > at any rate. In that case, the loss is... 100%
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


From cdtucson at cox.net  Thu Dec  3 23:32:38 2009
From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net)
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 23:32:38 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] How much survives entry?
In-Reply-To: <240146.91618.qm@web33904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20091203233238.DS31C.43311.imail@fed1rmwml29>

Richard,
Very nice show tonight. I recorded it so I can watch again. You were very very good!  You are (the) ultimate meteorite hunter. Congrats. 
I'm pretty sure it has been stated on this list that the amount burned up in passage through the atmosphere depends on so many different factors that any guess might be right. 
Anyway, Congrats again.
Carl
--
Carl or Debbie Esparza
Meteoritemax


---- Richard Kowalski <damoclid at yahoo.com> wrote: 
> Does anyone have a rough estimate on how much material, say ordinary chondrite, is lost during entry? 80% converted to light, heat and dust? 90%? 99.9%?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> --
> Richard Kowalski
> http://fullmoonphotography.net
> IMCA #1081
> 
> 
>       
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com  Sat Dec  5 00:40:31 2009
From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton)
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 21:40:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - GREAT HOLIDAY METEORITE SALE
Message-ID: <588914.58966.qm@web46413.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Hi to all, I have some really nice meteorite samples available.

Tatahouine (Diogenite) - $10 per gram
Camel Donga (Eucrite) - $20 per gram
NWA 4734 (Lunar) - $700 per gram and up.
NWA 4857 (Martian) - $700 per gram and up.
Lunar and Martian Display cases - $20 each (nice sized fragments also)
Thin Sections for $40-$80 each - includes Tatahouine, Camel Donga, EL, L, LL and others.

Also, feel free to sign up to my meteorite forum, you can find it by clicking the tab on my website:
www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com

One last thing, check out my ebay listings, I have some nice material listed on there also.
10% off any ebay item that is sold off ebay. (Auctions not included)
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZwanderingstarmeteoritesQQhtZ-1

Hope everyone has a safe Holiday!

Greg C.
IMCA 4682








      


From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net  Sat Dec  5 05:06:19 2009
From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb)
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 04:06:19 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Zamanshin impact and Homo Heidelbergensis
References: <397422.86389.qm@web36901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <E9AEA387E7374596862C7AA29C358CC1@ATARIENGINE2>

Hi, EP, List,

I strongly suggest you not worry about taxonomy
and being criticized for it. Genus Homo taxonomy
is presently in a state of colossal mess and nobody
agrees with anybody except themselves.

Homo heidelbergensis has been applied to many
distinctly different sets of remains, ranging from
200,000 years old to 1.2 million years. The name was
first applied in 1907 to a set of very archaic H. sapiens
or (more likely) H. erectus remains about a half
million years old.

There is long argument as to whether Homo
heidelbergensis is an advanced Homo erectus or a
primitive Homo sapiens, as useless as any argument
can get. Is he the world's tallest midget or the world's
shortest giant?

Homo heidelbergensis survives as a name because a
rule in taxonomy called "sinking." The oldest name has
newer finds "sunk" into it, even if it somewhat changes
the original definition of the creature. Today, the trend
is to "sink" Homo heidelbergensis into the later Homo
erectus form, even though it's against the "rules."

The point is nobody can criticize you for following the
strict rules of taxonomy. Homo heidelbergensis is the
older name for archaic Homo sapiens (or H. erectus).
It is the taxonomically correct name, and is still in wide
use today. Ignore the criticism.

I am relying here on the 2035 pages of Wilfried Henke and
Ian Tattersall's "Handbook of Paleoanthropology" (2007), the
most recent comprehensive work in publication. They do
not offer definitive assignment of species but explain the
various assignments of others, which at least looks as if
they were being reasonably objective. (They're not, but it
looks that way.)

Of that little Dmanisi fellow, they say most assign him as
an early form of Homo erectus, which some have called
Homo ergaster. He is nevertheless quite different from the
other fossils with the same species assignment (just as
many of them differ greatly from each other). He was
originally called Homo georgicus, but nobody much uses
that name anymore.

He is way too old to be your "split" man, as he is twice
as old as the Zamanshin crater and far too primitive (at
1.8 million years) to be the direct ancestor of Neanderthal
and Sapiens. THAT fellow would be Homo heidelbergensis.

Just like you said.

There are two urges at work here. Some taxonomists want
to "lump" all the Homo erectus-like critters into one species
with one name and a lot of variations. Other taxonomists
want to "split" each group with distinctive characteristics
into separate species with separate names. It should come
as no surprise that those exhibiting these two tendencies
are called the Lumpers and the Splitters.

Right now (this decade) the Splitters are winning, because
we keep finding new and distinctive hominids that simply
don't fit into the dominant model developed in the 1980's
and 1990's. There appear to have been lots of different
kinds of humans. and some that are weird beyond belief
(like Homo floresiensis).

Henke and Tattersall are not without their oddities: they
think Homo floresiensis is a deformed dwarf (WRONG).
They spend a lot of time on the Homo habilis versus Homo
rudolfiensis dispute, which is like the arguments between
the Laputan Big Enders and Little Enders in "Gulliver's
Travels," utterly insane nonsense. This is the kind of
argument that occupies people (do taxonomists count?)
with too much time on their hands.

Don't worry about people criticizing your taxonomy.
Someone always will, because you cannot satisfy a
roomful of madmen.

Given the dating of Zamanshin (900,000 +/- 100,000
years), Homo heidelbergensis or Homo erectus is equally
good at nominating the men of the times.

Moving on...

What I can't understand is why a nine-mile-wide crater
should (or could) "split" mankind into two non-interacting
groups resulting in two species of Homo. OK, the impact
kills folks for up to 1-2 hundred miles or so around the
impact site. I don't see that as an "obstacle."  Hominids
lived in widely scattered bands. There are hundreds of
miles of open plains north of Zamanshin, the great wide
Russian steppes, and all of Southern Asia, well, to the south.

Why is a nine-mile-wide crater in the middle of a continent
with 1500 miles of non-cratered terrain on every side of
that crater an obstacle of any kind to anybody with feet?

As for the impact creating the divide between Sapiens
and Neanderthals...

The earliest Neanderthal-like hominids, called Proto-
Neanderthals, don't appear until about 300,000 years
ago. "Proto-Neanderthal" is a slippery concept; how
is it different from its Homo heidelbergensis ancestor?
Not much, maybe not at all. Not everybody believes in
"Proto-Neanderthals," you see. Look up a picture of
the Petralona skulls to see. Neanderthal? Erectus?

The first hominids with traits that suggest Neanderthals
only appear about 130,000 years ago and the "classic"
Neanderthals don't appear until 70,000 years ago and the
full classic suite of traits doesn't manifest until about
50,000 years ago.

As for a "split," when these Neanderthals and near-
Neanderthals appeared, there were no "Sapiens" alongside
to contrast them with. There were Neanderthals in Europe
and spread across Asia where they were side-by-side with
Homo erectus, or Homo heidelbergensis, as we've been
calling him for a century now. Oh, yes, there are folks that
keep calling Homo heidelbergensis "archaic" Homo sapiens,
but take a look at, say, the Petralona skulls and tell me if
they look much like your late Uncle Herbert?

Homo sapiens is an easily identified species, very distinct
from Homo heidelbergensis or Homo erectus or anybody
else in the family. They're freakishly different. The oldest
Homo sapiens look just like us, and very little like the
ancestors, Homo heidelbergensis or erectus. The Homo
sapiens skull is smooth, light-boned, gracile, even fragile
by comparison.

So, the Homo heidelbergensis in Europe slowly became
more Neanderthal-like. Homo sapiens didn't begin to
enter Europe until about 34,000 years ago, about
halfway through the time of the Classic Neanderthal.
That's not a "split" between the two in my book. By
28,000 years ago, there were no more Neanderthals.
Whoops!

So, there was no event 1,000,000 years ago that split
Sapiens and Neanderthals apart because they didn't
split, then or at all, and whatever happened to create
Neanderthals, it was a long 700,000 to 870,000 years
later, after Zamanshin. Neanderthals were merely a
recent adaptation to recent Ice Ages and have nothing
to do with impacts.

And lastly, there were both Neanderthals and Homo
heidelbergensis (or Homo erectus) on both sides of a
N-S line through Zamanshin crater at all times when
there were both species in existence. There is no great
East-West divide in populations and never was.

Anyway, Zamanshin is a pothole. You walk around it
without knowing or caring. Even if you're Mr. Homo
heidelbergensis. Like I said, they had feet, I'm pretty
sure of that.



Sterling K. Webb
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 8:18 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Zamanshin impact and Homo Heidelbergensis


> Hi -
>
> While this is far from meteorites, it does concern impacts, and 
> specifically the Zamanshin impact.
>
> I received grief for using the term Homo Heidelbergensis in my book 
> for this fellow, even though I added in a footnote that the taxonomy 
> was confused:
>
> http://archaeologica.boardbot.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2381
>
> Note that no name is given for this homonid right now.
>
> This homonid was likely the common ancestor for sapiens and 
> neanderthal, with the two populations split by the Zamanshin impact.
>
> E.P Grondine
> Man and Impact in the Americas
>
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From news at chladnis-heirs.com  Sat Dec  5 06:19:50 2009
From: news at chladnis-heirs.com (Chladnis Heirs)
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 12:19:50 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] Test - ignore
Message-ID: <001301ca759c$dd5084b0$07b22959@name86d88d87e2>

Tests are boring.

Meteorite collection in Switzerland...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHQn7VNLUJI




From mpg4444 at gmail.com  Sat Dec  5 08:06:50 2009
From: mpg4444 at gmail.com (Michael Groetz)
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 08:06:50 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Leake & Goodlett meteorite returned
Message-ID: <ad733150912050506l37447a6cwd42c6ea0b7d47443@mail.gmail.com>

http://www.wxvt.com/Global/story.asp?S=11620211


Leake & Goodlett meteorite returned

Associated Press - December 4, 2009 8:24 AM ET

TUPELO, Miss. (AP) - A half-ton of space rock has mysteriously
reappeared at a Tupelo building supply store.

Lindsey Leake, the store's co-owner, tells the Northeast Mississippi
Daily Journal that they got a call last month from a person who
claimed to have the meteorite and wanted to return.

The 1,100-pound rock showed up Thursday at the Leake & Goodlett store
on a flatbed truck.

The rock disappeared Nov. 19, 2008.

Leake says the person agreed to return the rock if it would remain
anonymous and if he agreed not to prosecute. Leake agreed.

The meteorite was discovered in 1870 by Tupelo Mayor H.C. "Major"
Medford. It has always been displayed publicly outside Leake &
Goodlett since about 1965.

Leake says he may find some other public spot for it.


From ensoramanda at ntlworld.com  Sat Dec  5 08:48:09 2009
From: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com (ensoramanda at ntlworld.com)
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 13:48:09 +0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] 2008 TC3 - NatGeo TV
In-Reply-To: <C8D0543D4EC54F6CA1E215F53E28891A@Gregor>
Message-ID: <20091205134809.0P0P1.216447.root@web06-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com>

Hi Greg,all,

Anyone know if someone recorded it and made it available to download for those of us outside the USA?

Graham, UK

---- Greg Hupe <gmhupe at htn.net> wrote: 
> Hello All,
> 
> For anyone who missed tonight's airing of National Geographic's "Naked 
> Science: Countdown to Impact", it is well worth watching any second showings 
> as they did a fantastic job, excellent show!! Here is a link to the web site 
> for info:
> http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/series/naked-science/4652/Overview
> 
> I looked for videos for sale, but nothing yet :-/
> 
> Best regards,
> Greg
> 
> ====================
> Greg Hupe
> The Hupe Collection
> NaturesVault (eBay)
> gmhupe at htn.net
> www.LunarRock.com
> IMCA 3163
> ====================
> Click here for my current eBay auctions: 
> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From ensoramanda at ntlworld.com  Sat Dec  5 09:26:17 2009
From: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com (ensoramanda at ntlworld.com)
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 14:26:17 +0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] Leake & Goodlett meteorite returned
In-Reply-To: <ad733150912050506l37447a6cwd42c6ea0b7d47443@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091205142618.Y2YLP.217050.root@web06-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com>

Hi Michael,

Meteorwrong! anyway

meteorite-identification.com/tupelo.html

Graham, uk


---- Michael Groetz <mpg4444 at gmail.com> wrote: 
> http://www.wxvt.com/Global/story.asp?S=11620211
> 
> 
> Leake & Goodlett meteorite returned
> 
> Associated Press - December 4, 2009 8:24 AM ET
> 
> TUPELO, Miss. (AP) - A half-ton of space rock has mysteriously
> reappeared at a Tupelo building supply store.
> 
> Lindsey Leake, the store's co-owner, tells the Northeast Mississippi
> Daily Journal that they got a call last month from a person who
> claimed to have the meteorite and wanted to return.
> 
> The 1,100-pound rock showed up Thursday at the Leake & Goodlett store
> on a flatbed truck.
> 
> The rock disappeared Nov. 19, 2008.
> 
> Leake says the person agreed to return the rock if it would remain
> anonymous and if he agreed not to prosecute. Leake agreed.
> 
> The meteorite was discovered in 1870 by Tupelo Mayor H.C. "Major"
> Medford. It has always been displayed publicly outside Leake &
> Goodlett since about 1965.
> 
> Leake says he may find some other public spot for it.
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From cynapse at charter.net  Sat Dec  5 10:52:23 2009
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Sat, 05 Dec 2009 10:52:23 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] 2008 TC3 - NatGeo TV
In-Reply-To: <20091205134809.0P0P1.216447.root@web06-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com>
References: <C8D0543D4EC54F6CA1E215F53E28891A@Gregor>
	<20091205134809.0P0P1.216447.root@web06-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com>
Message-ID: <970lh516n4ltai9g3hlqfscnv2stdhqg7e@4ax.com>

On Sat, 5 Dec 2009 13:48:09 +0000, you wrote:

>Hi Greg,all,
>
>Anyone know if someone recorded it and made it available to download for those of us outside the USA?
>

I can't find an upload of it yet, but it will surely be coming-- the other
episodes in the series are availible from The Usual Sources:

http://www.torrentz.com/search?q=naked+science+

http://www.binsearch.info/?q=naked+science&max=250&adv_age=365&server=2

When it shows up, I can download it and upload it to Sendspace like I have in
the past.


From cynapse at charter.net  Sat Dec  5 10:59:33 2009
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Sat, 05 Dec 2009 10:59:33 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Zamanshin impact and Homo Heidelbergensis
In-Reply-To: <E9AEA387E7374596862C7AA29C358CC1@ATARIENGINE2>
References: <397422.86389.qm@web36901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<E9AEA387E7374596862C7AA29C358CC1@ATARIENGINE2>
Message-ID: <jl0lh59e55f6eeevubfc0og7lu0vre3brd@4ax.com>

On Sat, 5 Dec 2009 04:06:19 -0600, you wrote:

>I am relying here on the 2035 pages of Wilfried Henke and
>Ian Tattersall's "Handbook of Paleoanthropology" (2007), the
>most recent comprehensive work in publication. 

If anyone wants to take a look at this resource, you can pick it up for a mere
thousand bucks on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Handbook-Paleoanthropology-Principles-Approaches-Evolution/dp/3540324747

or sample it here:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/g65s4b


From almitt2 at localnet.com  Sat Dec  5 11:14:55 2009
From: almitt2 at localnet.com (almitt2 at localnet.com)
Date: Sat, 05 Dec 2009 11:14:55 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Illinois Meteorwrong Announcement/Sort of Ad
Message-ID: <20091205111455.8wuulf7d9zkcc4ow@webmail.localnet.com>

Greetings,

Some of you may remember a while back that Joe Kerchner found some 
interesting looking specimens while out meteorite hunting. I was 
involved in helping him get the specimens to a researcher who has 
determined they are a good meteorwrong but not a meteorite.

Many may remember a number of meteorwrongs we have come a cross in the 
past like some of the Russian specimens that turned out to be a 
terrestrial basalt with nickel in it. I feel that Joe's specimens are 
an excellent meteorwrong and have added a sample to my collection. I 
thought others might want to contact him and add some also. He is 
offering some of this material up for sale. I have added a link so you 
can visit his site and consider some of this material or simply look at 
it.

http://illinoismeteorites.com/mendotawrongsforsale.htm

You can also contact him here directly. Have fun!


Joe Kerchner      illinoismeteorites at gmail.com

Not too often you come across material that looks so promising like Joe 
did but still turns out to not be the real McCoy. This is the sort of 
item that is fun to add to a collection. All my best!

--AL Mitterling
Mitterling Meteorites



From almitt2 at localnet.com  Sat Dec  5 11:14:57 2009
From: almitt2 at localnet.com (almitt2 at localnet.com)
Date: Sat, 05 Dec 2009 11:14:57 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Illinois Meteorwrong Announcement/Sort of Ad
Message-ID: <20091205111457.clhbsuun8ao0gocc@webmail.localnet.com>

Greetings,

Some of you may remember a while back that Joe Kerchner found some 
interesting looking specimens while out meteorite hunting. I was 
involved in helping him get the specimens to a researcher who has 
determined they are a good meteorwrong but not a meteorite.

Many may remember a number of meteorwrongs we have come a cross in the 
past like some of the Russian specimens that turned out to be a 
terrestrial basalt with nickel in it. I feel that Joe's specimens are 
an excellent meteorwrong and have added a sample to my collection. I 
thought others might want to contact him and add some also. He is 
offering some of this material up for sale. I have added a link so you 
can visit his site and consider some of this material or simply look at 
it.

http://illinoismeteorites.com/mendotawrongsforsale.htm

You can also contact him here directly. Have fun!


Joe Kerchner      illinoismeteorites at gmail.com

Not too often you come across material that looks so promising like Joe 
did but still turns out to not be the real McCoy. This is the sort of 
item that is fun to add to a collection. All my best!

--AL Mitterling
Mitterling Meteorites



From astroroks at hotmail.com  Sat Dec  5 12:06:02 2009
From: astroroks at hotmail.com (Dennis Miller)
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 11:06:02 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Sunday's Auction
Message-ID: <COL113-W18EF1CA33C4A51BBB36027B1920@phx.gbl>



Bonhams & Butterfields (announcements.us at bonhams.com)
 
Not sure if the list gets these, but here ya go.
Nice looking meteorite lot.
Dennis
  		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Chat with Messenger straight from your Hotmail inbox.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/hotmail_bl1/hotmail_bl1.aspx?ocid=PID23879::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-ww:WM_IMHM_4:092009

From paul at meteorite.com  Sat Dec  5 12:34:45 2009
From: paul at meteorite.com (Paul Harris)
Date: Sat, 05 Dec 2009 09:34:45 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] US Dealers Pictures on www.starhunter.tw ??
In-Reply-To: <COL113-W18EF1CA33C4A51BBB36027B1920@phx.gbl>
References: <COL113-W18EF1CA33C4A51BBB36027B1920@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4B1A99B5.5010106@meteorite.com>

Dear Geoff, Eric, and List,

I received an email from the Taiwan Meteorite Company  
http://www.starhunter.tw/e/inside.asp  requesting a Banner Ad and in 
reviewing their site I see what appears to be images from Eric Twelker 
and Geoff Notkin's sites. They may have others as well but I have not 
searched their whole site. Two of the pages are listed below.

http://www.starhunter.tw/e/inside2.asp?p1no=2&p2no=0
http://www.starhunter.tw/e/inside2.asp?p1no=5&p2no=0

To Eric, Geoff and any other dealer,  please let me know if you have 
allowed this company to use your photos.

Thank you very much,

Paul



From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Sat Dec  5 12:57:32 2009
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 12:57:32 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] US Dealers Pictures on www.starhunter.tw ??
In-Reply-To: <4B1A99B5.5010106@meteorite.com>
References: <COL113-W18EF1CA33C4A51BBB36027B1920@phx.gbl>
	<4B1A99B5.5010106@meteorite.com>
Message-ID: <e51421550912050957g122e9e3cp31706e3521ff1a41@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Paul and List,

Wow, good eye and nice catch!

What a strange website.  Maybe it's just me, or the culture barrier,
but the Rex character seems more like a sideshow promoter than a
seller of meteorites and rare materials.  I don't say that as a bad
thing - I just mean that it looks and feels very different than any
meteorite website I have seen.

I didn't wade through the entirety of the listings, but some of them
seem a little dubious - like this offering : Iron Meteorite1.96kg(IAB)
like the head of an alien (Item No.?S000045)

http://www.starhunter.tw/e/detail.asp?pno=11&pp=A

I've never seen an iron meteorite with this kind of weathering pattern
or any pattern like this caused by natural processes.  The specimen
looks altered to me.  The listing does not explicitly state the
specimen is in a natural state, so it's not being misrepresented
per-se, but it does seem questionable.

Many of the specimens also lack important details - like the name of
the find/fall or any petrologic data.  A photo is presented and the
piece is stated as "pallasite" without any mention of what exact
pallasite it is - http://www.starhunter.tw/e/detail.asp?pno=159&pp=A

Much of that "meteorite jewelry" recalls the dubious pieces we see for
sale on eBay frequently - the carved crosses, Buddhas, and other
figures.

Example - http://www.starhunter.tw/e/detail.asp?pno=3868&pp=B#

An unclassified CV3 embedded in a trinket-like resin star.  (*ugh* -
don't get me started again on this tacky practice)

Who analyzed it and determined it is a CV3?  How can we tell, since
the piece is so small and permanently embedded in resin?

Maybe it's just the English language version of the site with these
issues - I have seen sites like this where the different versions for
various languages are not consistent - so maybe the native language
version has more detailed information?

I did notice that he is offering Martin and Stefan's Moon Rock
displays, so at least those specimens are authentic.

Best regards and clear skies,

MikeG

PS - there is also a copy of Eric Twelker's meteorite type chart here -

http://www.starhunter.tw/e/inside3.asp?p1no=3



On 12/5/09, Paul Harris <paul at meteorite.com> wrote:
> Dear Geoff, Eric, and List,
>
> I received an email from the Taiwan Meteorite Company
> http://www.starhunter.tw/e/inside.asp  requesting a Banner Ad and in
> reviewing their site I see what appears to be images from Eric Twelker
> and Geoff Notkin's sites. They may have others as well but I have not
> searched their whole site. Two of the pages are listed below.
>
> http://www.starhunter.tw/e/inside2.asp?p1no=2&p2no=0
> http://www.starhunter.tw/e/inside2.asp?p1no=5&p2no=0
>
> To Eric, Geoff and any other dealer,  please let me know if you have
> allowed this company to use your photos.
>
> Thank you very much,
>
> Paul
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


-- 
.........................................................
Michael Gilmer (Florida, USA)
Member of the Meteoritical Society.
Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com
FaceBook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale
Twitter - Twitter - http://twitter.com/GalacticStone
eBay - http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/maypickle
..........................................................


From geoking at notkin.net  Sat Dec  5 13:04:03 2009
From: geoking at notkin.net (Notkin)
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 11:04:03 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] US Dealers Pictures on www.starhunter.tw ??
In-Reply-To: <4B1A99B5.5010106@meteorite.com>
References: <COL113-W18EF1CA33C4A51BBB36027B1920@phx.gbl>
	<4B1A99B5.5010106@meteorite.com>
Message-ID: <BB2646A4-8E94-420D-8B0C-E48C2E4B7A25@notkin.net>

Dear Paul:

Thank you for being such a good web sleuth as usual  : )

Although I've done some business with Taiwan Meteorite Company, they  
are in no way authorized to use my Brenham photos or list pieces on  
their site that are actually on MY site  : )  I have to say, that's  
pretty bold.

I'll follow up on it right away.

See you here in a couple of months, right?


Best wishes,

Geoff

www.aerolite.org
www.meteoritemen.com
www.meteoriteblog.org


From paul at meteorite.com  Sat Dec  5 13:04:52 2009
From: paul at meteorite.com (Paul Harris)
Date: Sat, 05 Dec 2009 10:04:52 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] US Dealers Pictures on www.starhunter.tw ??
In-Reply-To: <e51421550912050953v2129a91h613612ae099396eb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <COL113-W18EF1CA33C4A51BBB36027B1920@phx.gbl>	
	<4B1A99B5.5010106@meteorite.com>
	<e51421550912050953v2129a91h613612ae099396eb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B1AA0C4.7020204@meteorite.com>

Hi Mike!

I totally agree with you on the site.  The Moon Box pictures look like
Geoff Notkins to me.  I also questioned them on this
http://www.starhunter.tw/e/detail.asp?pno=1547

and their response is below... LOL  Have a great day!  Paul

***************
This iron meteorite J000351
Location?NanDan, China
Type?iron meteorite IIICD
Include agate-base

In order to prevent getting rusty, we spread the black paint outside the
meteorite.
As the ornaments, It can't get rusty.
But if etched after cutting it, it still shows Widmanstaffen-Pattern.
We are the biggest meteorite wholesale websites in China. The meteorite
that we sold is all real goods. If make the fake, we would like to bear
legal responsibility. If there is any question, please let me know at
any time.
***************




Galactic Stone & Ironworks wrote:
> Hi Paul and List,
>
> Wow, good eye and nice catch!
>
> What a strange website.  Maybe it's just me, or the culture barrier,
> but the Rex character seems more like a sideshow promoter than a
> seller of meteorites and rare materials.  I don't say that as a bad
> thing - I just mean that it looks and feels very different than any
> meteorite website I have seen.
>
> I didn't wade through the entirety of the listings, but some of them
> seem a little dubious - like this offering : Iron Meteorite1.96kg(IAB)
> like the head of an alien (Item No.?S000045)
>
> http://www.starhunter.tw/e/detail.asp?pno=11&pp=A
>
> I've never seen an iron meteorite with this kind of weathering pattern
> or any pattern like this caused by natural processes.  The specimen
> looks altered to me.  The listing does not explicitly state the
> specimen is in a natural state, so it's not being misrepresented
> per-se, but it does seem questionable.
>
> Many of the specimens also lack important details - like the name of
> the find/fall or any petrologic data.  A photo is presented and the
> piece is stated as "pallasite" without any mention of what exact
> pallasite it is - http://www.starhunter.tw/e/detail.asp?pno=159&pp=A
>
> Much of that "meteorite jewelry" recalls the dubious pieces we see for
> sale on eBay frequently - the carved crosses, Buddhas, and other
> figures.
>
> Example - http://www.starhunter.tw/e/detail.asp?pno=3868&pp=B#
>
> An unclassified CV3 embedded in a trinket-like resin star.  (*ugh* -
> don't get me started again on this tacky practice)
>
> Who analyzed it and determined it is a CV3?  How can we tell, since
> the piece is so small and permanently embedded in resin?
>
> Maybe it's just the English language version of the site with these
> issues - I have seen sites like this where the different versions for
> various languages are not consistent - so maybe the native language
> version has more detailed information?
>
> I did notice that he is offering Martin and Stefan's Moon Rock
> displays, so at least those specimens are authentic.
>
> Best regards and clear skies,
>
> MikeG
>
>
> On 12/5/09, Paul Harris <paul at meteorite.com> wrote:
>   
>> Dear Geoff, Eric, and List,
>>
>> I received an email from the Taiwan Meteorite Company
>> http://www.starhunter.tw/e/inside.asp  requesting a Banner Ad and in
>> reviewing their site I see what appears to be images from Eric Twelker
>> and Geoff Notkin's sites. They may have others as well but I have not
>> searched their whole site. Two of the pages are listed below.
>>
>> http://www.starhunter.tw/e/inside2.asp?p1no=2&p2no=0
>> http://www.starhunter.tw/e/inside2.asp?p1no=5&p2no=0
>>
>> To Eric, Geoff and any other dealer,  please let me know if you have
>> allowed this company to use your photos.
>>
>> Thank you very much,
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>>     
>
>
>   





From marco.langbroek at wanadoo.nl  Sat Dec  5 13:10:28 2009
From: marco.langbroek at wanadoo.nl (Marco Langbroek)
Date: Sat, 05 Dec 2009 19:10:28 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] Zamanshin impact and Homo Heidelbergensis
Message-ID: <4B1AA214.6050305@wanadoo.nl>

> Note that no name is given for this homonid right now.
> 
> This homonid was likely the common ancestor for sapiens and neanderthal, with the two populations split by the Zamanshin impact.

Actually, the formal publication of these Dmanisi fossils have named it Homo 
georgicus. It is somewhere on the brink, morphologically, of H. habilis and H. 
erectus/ergaster. I.e., current thoughts are more and more that it is ancestral 
to Homo erectus/ergaster (and might indate that erectus/ergaster evolved outside 
of Africa! And migrated *into* Africa).

Note that *no-one* has ever classified this Dmanisi hominin as H. 
heidelbergensis. It is twice to thrice as old anyway as any other specimen 
classified as H. heidelbergensis.

Last week I had the pleasure of being present at the opening of the exhibit the 
link talks about by the way, and see the specimen in question.

Zhamanshin is, I believed, dated at 0.9 Ma so I see no clear link between the 
Zhamanshin impact and this 1.8 Ma hominin. It is twice as old as the impact.

- Marco

-----
Dr Marco Langbroek

Institute for Geo- & Bioarchaeology (IGBA)
Faculty of Earth and Life Sciences
VU University Amsterdam
De Boelelaan 1085
1081 HV Amsterdam, the Netherlands
room O-420

tel.:  +31 (0)20 5987669
e-mail:  marco.langbroek at falw.vu.nl
web (1): http://www.palaeolithic.nl
web (2): http://www.falw.vu.nl/igba
web (3): http://www.clue.nu
-----





From countdeiro at earthlink.net  Sat Dec  5 13:35:59 2009
From: countdeiro at earthlink.net (countdeiro at earthlink.net)
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 13:35:59 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] US Dealers Pictures on www.starhunter.tw ??
Message-ID: <29258676.1260038159773.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

THAT TAIWAN OUTFIT HAS ENOUGH NANTANS AND CAMPOS TO BALLAST THE NINA, THE PINTA AND THE SANTA MARIA!

COUNT DEIRO

-----Original Message-----
>From: Paul Harris <paul at meteorite.com>
>Sent: Dec 5, 2009 12:34 PM
>To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, Notkin <geoking at notkin.net>, twelker at alaska.net
>Subject: [meteorite-list] US Dealers Pictures on www.starhunter.tw ??
>
>Dear Geoff, Eric, and List,
>
>I received an email from the Taiwan Meteorite Company  
>http://www.starhunter.tw/e/inside.asp  requesting a Banner Ad and in 
>reviewing their site I see what appears to be images from Eric Twelker 
>and Geoff Notkin's sites. They may have others as well but I have not 
>searched their whole site. Two of the pages are listed below.
>
>http://www.starhunter.tw/e/inside2.asp?p1no=2&p2no=0
>http://www.starhunter.tw/e/inside2.asp?p1no=5&p2no=0
>
>To Eric, Geoff and any other dealer,  please let me know if you have 
>allowed this company to use your photos.
>
>Thank you very much,
>
>Paul
>
>______________________________________________
>http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>Meteorite-list mailing list
>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From edeckert at triad.rr.com  Sat Dec  5 13:29:11 2009
From: edeckert at triad.rr.com (Ed Deckert)
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 13:29:11 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] US Dealers Pictures on www.starhunter.tw ??
References: <COL113-W18EF1CA33C4A51BBB36027B1920@phx.gbl>
	<4B1A99B5.5010106@meteorite.com>
Message-ID: <011d01ca75d8$d70623d0$6401a8c0@EdDeckertMain>

I checked out the website in question, and also visited Eric's site.  Not 
only are they using Eric's photos, they are using the exact inventory 
number, info, and price for the specimen.  Like:  #NWA5000-610.  That is the 
same photo as used on Eric's site - plus the specimen has the same weight, 
description and identical price.

Unless Eric has agreed that they can act as a middleman to sell his 
specimens, I smell a huge scam.

Ed

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Paul Harris" <paul at meteorite.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>; "Notkin" <geoking at notkin.net>; 
<twelker at alaska.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 12:34 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] US Dealers Pictures on www.starhunter.tw ??


> Dear Geoff, Eric, and List,
>
> I received an email from the Taiwan Meteorite Company 
> http://www.starhunter.tw/e/inside.asp  requesting a Banner Ad and in 
> reviewing their site I see what appears to be images from Eric Twelker and 
> Geoff Notkin's sites. They may have others as well but I have not searched 
> their whole site. Two of the pages are listed below.
>
> http://www.starhunter.tw/e/inside2.asp?p1no=2&p2no=0
> http://www.starhunter.tw/e/inside2.asp?p1no=5&p2no=0
>
> To Eric, Geoff and any other dealer,  please let me know if you have 
> allowed this company to use your photos.
>
> Thank you very much,
>
> Paul
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>
>
>
> E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.1.0.447)
> Database version: 6.13850
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From countdeiro at earthlink.net  Sat Dec  5 13:51:35 2009
From: countdeiro at earthlink.net (countdeiro at earthlink.net)
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 13:51:35 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] US Dealers Pictures on www.starhunter.tw ??
Message-ID: <18687075.1260039095733.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Oh Yeah! I think this is the same outfit that I bought a 4 kilo Nantan from last year. They described it as a "siderite nantan". The single photo showed one side all wire brushed up nice. When I received it, the other three sides were caked solid with concretions and rust. I asked my neighbor and mentor, Sonny Clary, what to do with it... and he said "Hit it with a hammer." So I did... and now I have 167 rusty fragments. I been giving them to the kids at my grandson's grammar school.

Count Deiro  

-----Original Message-----
>From: countdeiro at earthlink.net
>Sent: Dec 5, 2009 1:35 PM
>To: Paul Harris <paul at meteorite.com>, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, Notkin <geoking at notkin.net>, twelker at alaska.net
>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] US Dealers Pictures on www.starhunter.tw ??
>
>THAT TAIWAN OUTFIT HAS ENOUGH NANTANS AND CAMPOS TO BALLAST THE NINA, THE PINTA AND THE SANTA MARIA!
>
>COUNT DEIRO
>
>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Paul Harris <paul at meteorite.com>
>>Sent: Dec 5, 2009 12:34 PM
>>To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, Notkin <geoking at notkin.net>, twelker at alaska.net
>>Subject: [meteorite-list] US Dealers Pictures on www.starhunter.tw ??
>>
>>Dear Geoff, Eric, and List,
>>
>>I received an email from the Taiwan Meteorite Company  
>>http://www.starhunter.tw/e/inside.asp  requesting a Banner Ad and in 
>>reviewing their site I see what appears to be images from Eric Twelker 
>>and Geoff Notkin's sites. They may have others as well but I have not 
>>searched their whole site. Two of the pages are listed below.
>>
>>http://www.starhunter.tw/e/inside2.asp?p1no=2&p2no=0
>>http://www.starhunter.tw/e/inside2.asp?p1no=5&p2no=0
>>
>>To Eric, Geoff and any other dealer,  please let me know if you have 
>>allowed this company to use your photos.
>>
>>Thank you very much,
>>
>>Paul
>>
>>______________________________________________
>>http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>Meteorite-list mailing list
>>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>______________________________________________
>http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>Meteorite-list mailing list
>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com  Sat Dec  5 14:37:31 2009
From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold)
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 11:37:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] more meteorites forsale/ price reduced
Message-ID: <55550.7481.qm@web57805.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Hi again list.I have reduced a few of the meteorites forsale and I have added a few new ones, so here they are again
_________________________________________________________________
1.CALDWELL,KS??????6 GRAM SLICE? SA CARD???????????????????????? $50-
2.SANTA ROSA??????? 51 GRAMS?????????????????????????????????????????????????? $200-
3.NWA? 5055??????????? 37.5 GRAM SLICE? COTTINGHAM CARD?? $75-
4. CAMPO DEL CIELO?? 7.5 KILO???????????????????????????????????????????????? $400-
5.NWA 5546????????? 16 GRAM SLICE????? COTT. CARD????????????????? $60-
6.KEM KEM? 15?????? 46 GRAMS (2 FRAGMENTS)? SMF CARD?? $100-
7.JUANCHENG???? 4.5 GRAMS??????? SLICE???????????????????????????????????? $40-
8.SIKOTE-ALIN???? 25 GRAMS????????????????????????????????????????????????????????$35-
9.GAO'S?? 29 AND 27 GRAMS? ORIENTED?? SA IMB CARD???????? $75-
______________________________________________________________
That is it for selling.Getting to rev up for tucson.So remember,free shipping as well.Please off list.
Steve R. Arnold, Chicago!! 


From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com  Sat Dec  5 14:43:20 2009
From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold)
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 11:43:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] joe's meteorwrong
Message-ID: <44191.10161.qm@web57805.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Hi again list.I just bought joe's 75 gram endcut of his meteorwrong.I have to say,it looks like and L3 type.That is the nicest M'wrong I have ever seen.
?Steve R. Arnold, Chicago!! 


From ensoramanda at ntlworld.com  Sat Dec  5 14:59:54 2009
From: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com (ensoramanda at ntlworld.com)
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 19:59:54 +0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] 2008 TC3 - NatGeo TV
In-Reply-To: <970lh516n4ltai9g3hlqfscnv2stdhqg7e@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20091205195954.K3WZE.7065.root@web02-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com>

Hi Darren,

Thanks, that would be wonderful...it was great to be able to watch the others you have provided links to in the past.

Cheers,

Graham

---- Darren Garrison <cynapse at charter.net> wrote: 
> On Sat, 5 Dec 2009 13:48:09 +0000, you wrote:
> 
> >Hi Greg,all,
> >
> >Anyone know if someone recorded it and made it available to download for those of us outside the USA?
> >
> 
> I can't find an upload of it yet, but it will surely be coming-- the other
> episodes in the series are availible from The Usual Sources:
> 
> http://www.torrentz.com/search?q=naked+science+
> 
> http://www.binsearch.info/?q=naked+science&max=250&adv_age=365&server=2
> 
> When it shows up, I can download it and upload it to Sendspace like I have in
> the past.
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From cynapse at charter.net  Sat Dec  5 16:17:57 2009
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Sat, 05 Dec 2009 16:17:57 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] 2008 TC3 - NatGeo TV
In-Reply-To: <20091205195954.K3WZE.7065.root@web02-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com>
References: <970lh516n4ltai9g3hlqfscnv2stdhqg7e@4ax.com>
	<20091205195954.K3WZE.7065.root@web02-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com>
Message-ID: <3ejlh5tvvuap8vom24veq7t902v95nt4um@4ax.com>

On Sat, 5 Dec 2009 19:59:54 +0000, you wrote:

>Thanks, that would be wonderful...it was great to be able to watch the others you have provided links to in the past.
>

In the meantime, I finally found a download of the first Meteorite Men:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/9mi1x6
http://www.sendspace.com/file/jfmk8f


From skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com  Sat Dec  5 16:22:20 2009
From: skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com (Joe Kerchner)
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 13:22:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Illinois Meteorwrong Announcement/Sort of Ad
In-Reply-To: <20091205111457.clhbsuun8ao0gocc@webmail.localnet.com>
References: <20091205111457.clhbsuun8ao0gocc@webmail.localnet.com>
Message-ID: <844813.71733.qm@web43407.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Thanks AL, I really thin this is one of the top 3 meteorwrongs of all time next to Putorano and Shirokovsky. I do not have a whole lot left, I have sold all of the pieces that I have offered so far. I just put up a few new pieces on the page you linked to. If somebody sees a piece in the thread that is not listed on the for sale page contact me and we can work something out if it has not been sold yet. I will be adding more pieces to the page so check back often if you do not see anything that interests you.
Here is a link to the thread I was talking about: http://illinoismeteorites.com/cgi-bin/board/YaBB.pl?num=1243030765/14
Here is a link to the for sale page: http://illinoismeteorites.com/mendotawrongsforsale.htm

Best Wishes,
Joe Kerchner
http://illinoismeteorites.com
http://skyrockcafe.com



----- Original Message ----
From: "almitt2 at localnet.com" <almitt2 at localnet.com>
To: Meteorite List <Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Sat, December 5, 2009 10:14:57 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Illinois Meteorwrong Announcement/Sort of Ad

Greetings,

Some of you may remember a while back that Joe Kerchner found some interesting looking specimens while out meteorite hunting. I was involved in helping him get the specimens to a researcher who has determined they are a good meteorwrong but not a meteorite.

Many may remember a number of meteorwrongs we have come a cross in the past like some of the Russian specimens that turned out to be a terrestrial basalt with nickel in it. I feel that Joe's specimens are an excellent meteorwrong and have added a sample to my collection. I thought others might want to contact him and add some also. He is offering some of this material up for sale. I have added a link so you can visit his site and consider some of this material or simply look at it.

http://illinoismeteorites.com/mendotawrongsforsale.htm

You can also contact him here directly. Have fun!


Joe Kerchner      illinoismeteorites at gmail.com

Not too often you come across material that looks so promising like Joe did but still turns out to not be the real McCoy. This is the sort of item that is fun to add to a collection. All my best!

--AL Mitterling
Mitterling Meteorites

______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



      


From clp at alumni.caltech.edu  Sat Dec  5 17:12:51 2009
From: clp at alumni.caltech.edu (Chris Peterson)
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 15:12:51 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] How much survives entry?
References: <20091203233238.DS31C.43311.imail@fed1rmwml29>
Message-ID: <089CB419717C4ED5A4A10F60907C78DC@bellatrix>

To get a visceral sense of why so little material survives entry, we can do 
a simple back-of-the-envelope calculation that lets us ignore messy details 
like entry angle, composition, and ablation physics.

A very slow meteoroid (12 km/s) entering the atmosphere is carrying a 
kinetic energy of 72 MJ/kg. That's the equivalent of 17 kg of TNT per kg of 
meteoroid. Usually, all of that energy is dissipated in at most a few 
seconds (for our purposes, any surviving meteorites can be considered to 
have zero kinetic energy).

A meteoroid that enters at 26 km/s (still slow enough for meteorites) gives 
up 338 MJ/kg, or 80 kg TNT per kg.

Not hard to see from this just how rough a ride those meteoroids experience. 
The energy is what it is; the primary factor that determines survival is how 
long the energy is allowed to dissipate. That's why long lasting fireballs 
are much better candidates for meteorite producers than shorter ones.

Chris

*****************************************
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <cdtucson at cox.net>
To: "Richard Kowalski" <damoclid at yahoo.com>; "meteoritelist" 
<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 9:32 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] How much survives entry?


> Richard,
> Very nice show tonight. I recorded it so I can watch again. You were very 
> very good!  You are (the) ultimate meteorite hunter. Congrats.
> I'm pretty sure it has been stated on this list that the amount burned up 
> in passage through the atmosphere depends on so many different factors 
> that any guess might be right.
> Anyway, Congrats again.
> Carl



From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Sat Dec  5 18:31:30 2009
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 18:31:30 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] SALE - UNWA Black Chondrite slices/endcuts,
	Trinitite, Meteorite Gift 	Boxes, more!
Message-ID: <e51421550912051531l5e88187djebb17f0f51fc27be@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Folks!

I have a few items of holiday interest that would make good stocking stuffers.

This includes some low-cost UNWA black chondrite slices and endcuts.
I also have some small metal-rich unclassified endcuts, one nice
crusted piece of Tamdakht, and some unique Trinitite displays.

See the links below -

http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/126516/New-Limited-Edition-Trinitite-Display--Vintage-Pop-Sci_1107354.html

http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/126516/New-Limited-Edition-Trinitite-Display--Vintage-Pop-Sci-Art_1107351.html

http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/126516/Tamdakht--2008-Moroccan-Witnessed-Fall--Crusted-Fragment_1066894.html

http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/126516/Black-Chondrite--Big-Unclassified-Meteorite-Endcut--81-grams_1131751.html

http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/126516/Retro-Meteorite-Display-Box-w-Vintage-Astronomy-Theme_1125428.html

http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/126516/High-Iron-Endcut--Nice-Unclassified-Meteorite--40-grams_1131762.html

http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/126516/Retro-Meteorite-Display-Box-w-Vintage-Astronomy-Art_1143682.html

I also have some nice non-meteorite items like fulgurites, neolithic
arrowheads, ammonites, and more.  See my website at -
http://www.galactic-stone.com

All List-Members (this means you!) get a 25% discount on everything in
my store (min order $10) - just use the coupon code "metlist" at
checkout.

Thanks for looking and happy holidays!

MikeG

PS - I have bulk quartz crystals, semi-precious stones, moldavite, sea
shells, and more. :)


-- 
.........................................................
Michael Gilmer (Florida, USA)
Member of the Meteoritical Society.
Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com
FaceBook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale
Twitter - Twitter - http://twitter.com/GalacticStone
eBay - http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/maypickle
..........................................................


From patricksterlingthompson at gmail.com  Sat Dec  5 18:44:47 2009
From: patricksterlingthompson at gmail.com (Patrick Thompson)
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 15:44:47 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - ANGRITE FOR SALE - SMALL AFFORDABLE D'ORBIGNY
	SPECIMENS AVAILABLE!
Message-ID: <c12a52ab0912051544u50fc330cq94bf282eda2d0f95@mail.gmail.com>

Greetings list members, I have a handful of small D'orbigny angrite
specimens available for sale at great prices.??Every specimen has
something really unique and weird?about?it.??As many of you already
know, this is one of the most anomalous, rarest, and coolest
meteorites?on earth.? I am?excited?to be able to offer a few specimens
to interested collectors.? There?are a couple of sub-gram specimens
for micro collectors, up to a 6 gram piece.  If?you?are?interested in
obtaining a?specimen, please contact me off list.? My email is:
patrick at etmeteorites.com.  Thank you for your time!


Patrick Thompson
ET Meteorites
patrick at etmeteorites.com


From epgrondine at yahoo.com  Sat Dec  5 19:02:49 2009
From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine)
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 16:02:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Zamanshin impact and Homo Heidelbergensis
In-Reply-To: <E9AEA387E7374596862C7AA29C358CC1@ATARIENGINE2>
Message-ID: <486795.78037.qm@web36902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi Sterling - 

Once more the voice of quiet reason. The madmen in the room always seem to find me, whether its Zubrinite Mars nuts, cultists, nu-agers, or simply less than secure anthropologists. Hell, I even mentioned erectus in the footnotes, but did they care? No. The taxonomy was a mess, and I said so. I was a space journalist reeling from a stroke, and not a physical anthropologist. 

Now has anybody (hint, hint) apologized yet for their remarks? No.

A 1,100,000 Hiroshima impact and 1.8 billion tons of vaporized rock will have effects. Like splitting a hominid group into two parts, which then follow different evolutionary paths. The death range must have exceeded 100-200 miles. And all of the game animals (food) and useful plants and trees would have been killed as well. 

The impact explains the plains.

And still no one is looking at the Malaysian impact and the early sapien fossils from there.

Ed

--- On Sat, 12/5/09, Sterling K. Webb <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> From: Sterling K. Webb <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Zamanshin impact and Homo Heidelbergensis
> To: "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine at yahoo.com>, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Saturday, December 5, 2009, 4:06 AM
> Hi, EP, List,
> 
> I strongly suggest you not worry about taxonomy
> and being criticized for it. Genus Homo taxonomy
> is presently in a state of colossal mess and nobody
> agrees with anybody except themselves.
> 
> Homo heidelbergensis has been applied to many
> distinctly different sets of remains, ranging from
> 200,000 years old to 1.2 million years. The name was
> first applied in 1907 to a set of very archaic H. sapiens
> or (more likely) H. erectus remains about a half
> million years old.
> 
> There is long argument as to whether Homo
> heidelbergensis is an advanced Homo erectus or a
> primitive Homo sapiens, as useless as any argument
> can get. Is he the world's tallest midget or the world's
> shortest giant?
> 
> Homo heidelbergensis survives as a name because a
> rule in taxonomy called "sinking." The oldest name has
> newer finds "sunk" into it, even if it somewhat changes
> the original definition of the creature. Today, the trend
> is to "sink" Homo heidelbergensis into the later Homo
> erectus form, even though it's against the "rules."
> 
> The point is nobody can criticize you for following the
> strict rules of taxonomy. Homo heidelbergensis is the
> older name for archaic Homo sapiens (or H. erectus).
> It is the taxonomically correct name, and is still in wide
> use today. Ignore the criticism.
> 
> I am relying here on the 2035 pages of Wilfried Henke and
> Ian Tattersall's "Handbook of Paleoanthropology" (2007),
> the
> most recent comprehensive work in publication. They do
> not offer definitive assignment of species but explain the
> various assignments of others, which at least looks as if
> they were being reasonably objective. (They're not, but it
> looks that way.)
> 
> Of that little Dmanisi fellow, they say most assign him as
> an early form of Homo erectus, which some have called
> Homo ergaster. He is nevertheless quite different from the
> other fossils with the same species assignment (just as
> many of them differ greatly from each other). He was
> originally called Homo georgicus, but nobody much uses
> that name anymore.
> 
> He is way too old to be your "split" man, as he is twice
> as old as the Zamanshin crater and far too primitive (at
> 1.8 million years) to be the direct ancestor of
> Neanderthal
> and Sapiens. THAT fellow would be Homo heidelbergensis.
> 
> Just like you said.
> 
> There are two urges at work here. Some taxonomists want
> to "lump" all the Homo erectus-like critters into one
> species
> with one name and a lot of variations. Other taxonomists
> want to "split" each group with distinctive
> characteristics
> into separate species with separate names. It should come
> as no surprise that those exhibiting these two tendencies
> are called the Lumpers and the Splitters.
> 
> Right now (this decade) the Splitters are winning, because
> we keep finding new and distinctive hominids that simply
> don't fit into the dominant model developed in the 1980's
> and 1990's. There appear to have been lots of different
> kinds of humans. and some that are weird beyond belief
> (like Homo floresiensis).
> 
> Henke and Tattersall are not without their oddities: they
> think Homo floresiensis is a deformed dwarf (WRONG).
> They spend a lot of time on the Homo habilis versus Homo
> rudolfiensis dispute, which is like the arguments between
> the Laputan Big Enders and Little Enders in "Gulliver's
> Travels," utterly insane nonsense. This is the kind of
> argument that occupies people (do taxonomists count?)
> with too much time on their hands.
> 
> Don't worry about people criticizing your taxonomy.
> Someone always will, because you cannot satisfy a
> roomful of madmen.
> 
> Given the dating of Zamanshin (900,000 +/- 100,000
> years), Homo heidelbergensis or Homo erectus is equally
> good at nominating the men of the times.
> 
> Moving on...
> 
> What I can't understand is why a nine-mile-wide crater
> should (or could) "split" mankind into two non-interacting
> groups resulting in two species of Homo. OK, the impact
> kills folks for up to 1-2 hundred miles or so around the
> impact site. I don't see that as an "obstacle." 
> Hominids
> lived in widely scattered bands. There are hundreds of
> miles of open plains north of Zamanshin, the great wide
> Russian steppes, and all of Southern Asia, well, to the
> south.
> 
> Why is a nine-mile-wide crater in the middle of a
> continent
> with 1500 miles of non-cratered terrain on every side of
> that crater an obstacle of any kind to anybody with feet?
> 
> As for the impact creating the divide between Sapiens
> and Neanderthals...
> 
> The earliest Neanderthal-like hominids, called Proto-
> Neanderthals, don't appear until about 300,000 years
> ago. "Proto-Neanderthal" is a slippery concept; how
> is it different from its Homo heidelbergensis ancestor?
> Not much, maybe not at all. Not everybody believes in
> "Proto-Neanderthals," you see. Look up a picture of
> the Petralona skulls to see. Neanderthal? Erectus?
> 
> The first hominids with traits that suggest Neanderthals
> only appear about 130,000 years ago and the "classic"
> Neanderthals don't appear until 70,000 years ago and the
> full classic suite of traits doesn't manifest until about
> 50,000 years ago.
> 
> As for a "split," when these Neanderthals and near-
> Neanderthals appeared, there were no "Sapiens" alongside
> to contrast them with. There were Neanderthals in Europe
> and spread across Asia where they were side-by-side with
> Homo erectus, or Homo heidelbergensis, as we've been
> calling him for a century now. Oh, yes, there are folks
> that
> keep calling Homo heidelbergensis "archaic" Homo sapiens,
> but take a look at, say, the Petralona skulls and tell me
> if
> they look much like your late Uncle Herbert?
> 
> Homo sapiens is an easily identified species, very
> distinct
> from Homo heidelbergensis or Homo erectus or anybody
> else in the family. They're freakishly different. The
> oldest
> Homo sapiens look just like us, and very little like the
> ancestors, Homo heidelbergensis or erectus. The Homo
> sapiens skull is smooth, light-boned, gracile, even
> fragile
> by comparison.
> 
> So, the Homo heidelbergensis in Europe slowly became
> more Neanderthal-like. Homo sapiens didn't begin to
> enter Europe until about 34,000 years ago, about
> halfway through the time of the Classic Neanderthal.
> That's not a "split" between the two in my book. By
> 28,000 years ago, there were no more Neanderthals.
> Whoops!
> 
> So, there was no event 1,000,000 years ago that split
> Sapiens and Neanderthals apart because they didn't
> split, then or at all, and whatever happened to create
> Neanderthals, it was a long 700,000 to 870,000 years
> later, after Zamanshin. Neanderthals were merely a
> recent adaptation to recent Ice Ages and have nothing
> to do with impacts.
> 
> And lastly, there were both Neanderthals and Homo
> heidelbergensis (or Homo erectus) on both sides of a
> N-S line through Zamanshin crater at all times when
> there were both species in existence. There is no great
> East-West divide in populations and never was.
> 
> Anyway, Zamanshin is a pothole. You walk around it
> without knowing or caring. Even if you're Mr. Homo
> heidelbergensis. Like I said, they had feet, I'm pretty
> sure of that.
> 
> 
> 
> Sterling K. Webb
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 8:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Zamanshin impact and Homo
> Heidelbergensis
> 
> 
> > Hi -
> > 
> > While this is far from meteorites, it does concern
> impacts, and specifically the Zamanshin impact.
> > 
> > I received grief for using the term Homo
> Heidelbergensis in my book for this fellow, even though I
> added in a footnote that the taxonomy was confused:
> > 
> > http://archaeologica.boardbot.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2381
> > 
> > Note that no name is given for this homonid right
> now.
> > 
> > This homonid was likely the common ancestor for
> sapiens and neanderthal, with the two populations split by
> the Zamanshin impact.
> > 
> > E.P Grondine
> > Man and Impact in the Americas
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ______________________________________________
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 
> 
> 


      


From grf2 at comcast.net  Sat Dec  5 19:38:56 2009
From: grf2 at comcast.net (Jerry Flaherty)
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 19:38:56 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] reverse electrolysis
Message-ID: <A51FB944D46A4641902358EF32A337A2@ASUS>

List,
I have a large Campo del Cielo on which I'd like to try reverse 
electrolysis. It's one "hurtin" piece that I'd be willing to sacrifice if 
things don't go well, so I'd appreciate a repeat of the directions
Thanks in advance
Jerry Flaherty 



From azizhabibi at yahoo.com  Sat Dec  5 21:07:14 2009
From: azizhabibi at yahoo.com (habibi abdelaziz)
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 18:07:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] IMCA , encyclopdia of meteorite
Message-ID: <171086.15319.qm@web62003.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

bravo, l'imca pour ce travail magnefique;

i didnt see that's huge job there is a long time and i see this is?3 days i can't close my labtop;
full of photo of? everything collection ,images; wow,
we coundn't found better place to spend a good time,

our work is gratified when you see all those beautyfull photos

again barvo
aziz habibi

?<font style="BACKGROUND-COLOR:#40ffff;" face="comic sans ms">habibi aziz 
box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco 
phone. 21235576145 
fax.21235576170</font> 


      


From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Sat Dec  5 21:13:38 2009
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 21:13:38 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] IMCA , encyclopdia of meteorite
In-Reply-To: <171086.15319.qm@web62003.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
References: <171086.15319.qm@web62003.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <e51421550912051813g18c117a9p72a5a1ce186e2492@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Aziz and List,

I agree.  The Encyclopedia of Meteorites is the world's best way to
explore some of the most interesting  private meteorite collections.
I wish all institutions holding meteorites had an online interface
open to the public like the Encyclopedia.

Best regards and happy huntings,

MikeG


On 12/5/09, habibi abdelaziz <azizhabibi at yahoo.com> wrote:
> bravo, l'imca pour ce travail magnefique;
>
> i didnt see that's huge job there is a long time and i see this is 3 days i
> can't close my labtop;
> full of photo of  everything collection ,images; wow,
> we coundn't found better place to spend a good time,
>
> our work is gratified when you see all those beautyfull photos
>
> again barvo
> aziz habibi
>
>  <font style="BACKGROUND-COLOR:#40ffff;" face="comic sans ms">habibi aziz
> box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco
> phone. 21235576145
> fax.21235576170</font>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


-- 
.........................................................
Michael Gilmer (Florida, USA)
Member of the Meteoritical Society.
Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com
FaceBook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale
Twitter - Twitter - http://twitter.com/GalacticStone
eBay - http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/maypickle
..........................................................


From azizhabibi at yahoo.com  Sat Dec  5 23:00:13 2009
From: azizhabibi at yahoo.com (habibi abdelaziz)
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 20:00:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] big chondrules
Message-ID: <499476.10419.qm@web62008.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

hi
looking for photo of a big chondule here is?some, enjoy

http://www.flickr.com/photos/azizhabibi/

thanks
aziz habibi
?habibi aziz 
box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco 
phone. 21235576145 
fax.21235576170</font> 


      


From lintonius at earthlink.net  Sun Dec  6 01:10:53 2009
From: lintonius at earthlink.net (Linton Rohr)
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 22:10:53 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list]  SMALL Riker mounts?
References: <44191.10161.qm@web57805.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <38352258EAB646DB85627FEE7BB93340@D190TH71>

Hi there listees,
Anybody know of a source for ~ 2 1/2" x 3" Riker mounts?
I have purchased a few from a well known outlet, but their prices are about 
double the norm for any given size.
Elsewhere, the smallest I can find are 3 1/4" x 4 1/4".
Maybe I need bigger specimens! ;^)
Linton 



From news at chladnis-heirs.com  Sun Dec  6 08:04:17 2009
From: news at chladnis-heirs.com (Chladnis Heirs)
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2009 14:04:17 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] Was Test - ignore - the meteorite collection in
	the Mysty Park, Interlaken
Message-ID: <001101ca7674$9f0c5570$07b22959@name86d88d87e2>

Hello,

we were asked, what for a meteorite display it could be in that
youtube-clip, we filled our test-posting with:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHQn7VNLUJI

These are the remainders of the once most important (and perhaps still most
important) meteorite collection of Switzerland:

The former collection of the Bally-Prior museum in Schoenenwerd, Canton
Solothurn, 
(where Rolf Buehler was also curator - author of the still best meteorite
book in German language).
Bally-Prior was a fabricant of shoes.
In the end the meteorite collection comprised 500 historic meteorites from
more than 70 countries.

The museum housed also one of the most important mineral collections of
Switzerland.
Was financed by an private foundation,
but the museum went more or less bankrupt.

To restore and to maintain the museum and the collections in the end a
relatively modest amount was missing, approx 450.000$.
A sum the Suisse state obviously wasn't willing to pay.

So unbelievable but true: the mineral & meteorite collections were dissolved
and hawked 5-6 years ago!

Museums and universities had a preemption to buy before the private
collectors.
All museums and universities failed in taking over the meteorite collection,
even the ETH Zurich, whereto Bally-Prior had donated endless mineral
specimens and whole collections.

So afterwards a private person bought the meteorite collection.

Maybe one can say, that with that failure to secure the Bally-Prior
meteorite collection for the public and for research, Suisse meteorite
history hit rock bottom.
Only one similar grave case comes into our minds, the mistake not to have
held Zeitschel's collection, once largest private collection in the World,
in Germany - but that was in the 1980ies.
 
The private buyer gave a part (most?) of the collection on loan to that
place, where the video was taken.
Well, maybe not an ideal place, but at least they are on display.
It's a kind of a Disneyland once created by Europe's most famous ufologist,
Erich von Daeniken.  - the "Mysty Park" in Interlaken, Canton Bern.

Side remark - we had these discussions about laws, meteorites as natural or
cultural heritage (and a museum collection is for sure a cultural heritage
in the terms of the UNESCO-Convention of 1970) etc. - 
Well, if one regards this case, doubts can rise, whether meteorites in
Switzerland really are objects of cultural meaning, scientific importance
and public interest and if the respective laws about such objects found can
be applied on meteorites.

Mistakes are made to learn from them.

Have a fine Sunday,
Martin



From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com  Sun Dec  6 10:08:06 2009
From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold)
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2009 07:08:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] more meteorites/ price reduced on soe (AD)
Message-ID: <704976.21196.qm@web57801.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Hi list.I emailed this list yesterday,but it did not make it because I did not say "ad".If?it did my apology.I have added a few more pieces forsale and reduced the price for a few.The santa rosa,1.3 k campo,the 3 nwa's,and griffith are gone.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.caldwell,ks????? 6.1 slice?? SA IMB card?????????????????????????????????????????????? $50
2.campo?????? 7.5?kilo's????????????????????????? meteorite madness???????????????????? $400
3.gao's??? (29 and 27 grams)?????????? oriented? SA IMB cards??????????????????? $75
4.nininger copy poster from 1966/1967??? ASU awards benifit???????????????? $25
5.allende slice???? 6.5 grams??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? $50
6.kem kem 15???????? 46 grams (2 fragments)?? SMF CARD???????????????????????$100
7.NWA 5546????? CV3???? 16 gram slice??? cottingham card??????????????????????? $60
8.sikote-alin???????????? 25 grams???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? $35
9.nwa 5055?????????????? 37.5 gram slice?????? cottingham card????????????????????????$75
10.mangwendi?????? 3 gram part slice???????????????????????????????????????????????????????? $25
11.juancheng???????? 4.5 gram part slice????????????????????????????????????????????????????? $40
12.nwa 5526???????? 13, 54 gram slice??? cottingham card???????????????????????????? $40
13.gold basin???????????? 9 grams slice????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? $40
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So thats it also all with free shipping.Please off list and it is also a new week.PAYPAL,CHECK,USA CASH or MONEY ORDER.

?Steve R. Arnold, Chicago!! 


From meteoritefinder at gmail.com  Sun Dec  6 13:07:02 2009
From: meteoritefinder at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2009 11:07:02 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad/web site update.....Admire Pallasite slices
Message-ID: <468bf6050912061007t9e64354s17c3c56217d340fd@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all I just finished adding some really nice Admire Pallasite slices
to the web site you can have a look here
http://www.meteoritefinder.com/whats-new-sale.htm

As usual I am also running Ebay auctions and if you would like to see
them you can see mine here
http://shop.ebay.com/flattoprocks/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p4340

And you can see what my wife has on there as well
http://shop.ebay.com/flatop-2/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p4340

Thanks for looking and any purchase for the next 48 hours will include
free shipping world wide, just mention this ad. Thanks

--
Mike Miller 230 Greenway Dr. Kingman Az 86401
www.meteoritefinder.com
? ? 928-753-6825


From cdtucson at cox.net  Sat Dec  5 19:24:59 2009
From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net)
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 19:24:59 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fwd: Re:  How much survives entry?
Message-ID: <20091205192459.T7WVT.69096.imail@fed1rmwml33>


> Chris,
> Just so you know. When you look at the time and date of my posts you will see they are from Thursday. They are often delayed by several days. I don't know why they take so long to post to the list. I have not had time yet to read your references but I certainly will very soon. 
> You make entry sound so dramatic with your TNT figures but those amounts are gibberish to most of us non-scientists. 
> What makes me curious relative to those scary numbers you state, is the simple fact that we have been shuttling space ships and rockets for quite some time in and out of this atmosphere with relatively few TNT  scale catastrophes. That said it seems that if we can do it so can a smooth rock. Even if you look at photos we have of asteroids they are very smooth themselves. Not jagged or non-aerodynamic. Makes you wonder why that is? Is there some mechanism that makes them smooth that we have never addressed yet? So, my presumption is that they have had millions of years of experience  with space travel. Some we have even observed entering our atmosphere and then actually exiting without ever falling to Earths surface. These it seems to me that  those rocks would be extra touch for the next go round. Because they now already must have a tough fusion crust which might be even better designed than our space shuttle tiles. And therefore should slip through our atmosphere with the greatest of ease. 
> So, keeping all of this in perspective , Sterling says the range is actually from 14%-100% is lost. This figure makes much more sense but it seems to me that some meteoroids MUST be equally as aerodynamic as our space shuttle and therefore can not be discounted from the equation. And therefore must make it through with little loss. 
>  Just my humble common sense here. without math. Thanks again. Carl
> --
> Carl or Debbie Esparza
> Meteoritemax
> 
> 
> ---- Chris Peterson <clp at alumni.caltech.edu> wrote: 
> > To get a visceral sense of why so little material survives entry, we can do 
> > a simple back-of-the-envelope calculation that lets us ignore messy details 
> > like entry angle, composition, and ablation physics.
> > 
> > A very slow meteoroid (12 km/s) entering the atmosphere is carrying a 
> > kinetic energy of 72 MJ/kg. That's the equivalent of 17 kg of TNT per kg of 
> > meteoroid. Usually, all of that energy is dissipated in at most a few 
> > seconds (for our purposes, any surviving meteorites can be considered to 
> > have zero kinetic energy).
> > 
> > A meteoroid that enters at 26 km/s (still slow enough for meteorites) gives 
> > up 338 MJ/kg, or 80 kg TNT per kg.
> > 
> > Not hard to see from this just how rough a ride those meteoroids experience. 
> > The energy is what it is; the primary factor that determines survival is how 
> > long the energy is allowed to dissipate. That's why long lasting fireballs 
> > are much better candidates for meteorite producers than shorter ones.
> > 
> > Chris
> > 
> > *****************************************
> > Chris L Peterson
> > Cloudbait Observatory
> > http://www.cloudbait.com
> > 
> > 
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: <cdtucson at cox.net>
> > To: "Richard Kowalski" <damoclid at yahoo.com>; "meteoritelist" 
> > <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 9:32 PM
> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] How much survives entry?
> > 
> > 
> > > Richard,
> > > Very nice show tonight. I recorded it so I can watch again. You were very 
> > > very good!  You are (the) ultimate meteorite hunter. Congrats.
> > > I'm pretty sure it has been stated on this list that the amount burned up 
> > > in passage through the atmosphere depends on so many different factors 
> > > that any guess might be right.
> > > Anyway, Congrats again.
> > > Carl
> > 
> > ______________________________________________
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From nakhladog at comcast.net  Sun Dec  6 16:32:27 2009
From: nakhladog at comcast.net (Rob Wesel)
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2009 13:32:27 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Happy Holiday Season
Message-ID: <04067E86ED8F499FA0D1CCE72C4FBA1E@windows9bb74fe>

Hello all

Looking back at 2009, it's been a good year for us spacerock heads.

A small list, feel free to add to it:

Numerous recovered falls around the globe

Using new technologies to locate those falls = 2008 TC3/Almahata Sitta, 
West, Grimsby

Good old fashioned hard work = Maribo, Whetstone Mountains, and untold 
desert finds

The first meteorite TV series

Life on Mars back in the mix

Dogs finding meteorites

We've lost a few friends this year but gained a few as well

So, whatever holiday you observe this time of year may it bring you the best

http://www.nakhladogmeteorites.com/site-art/xmas.jpg

Rob Wesel



From dave at fallingrocks.com  Sun Dec  6 17:06:10 2009
From: dave at fallingrocks.com (Dave Gheesling)
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2009 17:06:10 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] IMCA , encyclopdia of meteorite
In-Reply-To: <e51421550912051813g18c117a9p72a5a1ce186e2492@mail.gmail.com>
References: <171086.15319.qm@web62003.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
	<e51421550912051813g18c117a9p72a5a1ce186e2492@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <78C4DFC09E8E448EA4AD6A4451E12C98@meteorroom>

All,
Not only is www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com a great place to explore
quite a few meteorite collections, it is a wonderful place to LIST YOUR OWN
COLLECTION if you haven't done so already!  Many articles about the need to
properly catalog meteorite collections have appeared over the years,
including one I wrote not long ago (see:
http://www.fallingrocks.com/FRarticle-082009.htm ), and the IMCA's EOM is
REALLY EASY TO USE and just a great way to catalog your collection...
All the best,
Dave
www.fallingrocks.com

-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Galactic
Stone & Ironworks
Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 9:14 PM
To: habibi abdelaziz
Cc: meteorite list
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] IMCA , encyclopdia of meteorite

Hi Aziz and List,

I agree.  The Encyclopedia of Meteorites is the world's best way to explore
some of the most interesting  private meteorite collections.
I wish all institutions holding meteorites had an online interface open to
the public like the Encyclopedia.

Best regards and happy huntings,

MikeG


On 12/5/09, habibi abdelaziz <azizhabibi at yahoo.com> wrote:
> bravo, l'imca pour ce travail magnefique;
>
> i didnt see that's huge job there is a long time and i see this is 3 
> days i can't close my labtop; full of photo of  everything collection 
> ,images; wow, we coundn't found better place to spend a good time,
>
> our work is gratified when you see all those beautyfull photos
>
> again barvo
> aziz habibi
>
>  <font style="BACKGROUND-COLOR:#40ffff;" face="comic sans ms">habibi 
> aziz box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco phone. 21235576145 
> fax.21235576170</font>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


--
.........................................................
Michael Gilmer (Florida, USA)
Member of the Meteoritical Society.
Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com
FaceBook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale
Twitter - Twitter - http://twitter.com/GalacticStone eBay -
http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/maypickle
..........................................................
______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From michael at rocksfromspace.org  Sun Dec  6 17:33:10 2009
From: michael at rocksfromspace.org (michael at rocksfromspace.org)
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2009 22:33:10 +0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] Happy Holiday Season
Message-ID: <840708559-1260138786-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-54670380-@bda267.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

Very nice Rob!
Happy Holidays!!
Best wishes,
Michael Johnson
http://www.rocksfromspace.org


------Original Message------
From: Rob Wesel
Sender: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
To: Meteorite List
Subject: [meteorite-list] Happy Holiday Season
Sent: Dec 6, 2009 4:32 PM

Hello all

Looking back at 2009, it's been a good year for us spacerock heads.

A small list, feel free to add to it:

Numerous recovered falls around the globe

Using new technologies to locate those falls = 2008 TC3/Almahata Sitta, 
West, Grimsby

Good old fashioned hard work = Maribo, Whetstone Mountains, and untold 
desert finds

The first meteorite TV series

Life on Mars back in the mix

Dogs finding meteorites

We've lost a few friends this year but gained a few as well

So, whatever holiday you observe this time of year may it bring you the best

http://www.nakhladogmeteorites.com/site-art/xmas.jpg

Rob Wesel

______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


Thumbed On My BlackBerry

From grf2 at comcast.net  Sun Dec  6 20:02:46 2009
From: grf2 at comcast.net (Jerry Flaherty)
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2009 20:02:46 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] reverse electolysis
Message-ID: <6950BAB84D9545379ECD0910D7B6830E@ASUS>

Thanks to all who responded to my request.
I got some great suggestions and detailed instructions.
The List at its best.
Jerry Flaherty 


From info at meteorites.com.au  Mon Dec  7 02:19:44 2009
From: info at meteorites.com.au (Jeff Kuyken)
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 18:19:44 +1100
Subject: [meteorite-list] IMCA , encyclopdia of meteorite
In-Reply-To: <78C4DFC09E8E448EA4AD6A4451E12C98@meteorroom>
References: <171086.15319.qm@web62003.mail.re1.yahoo.com><e51421550912051813g18c117a9p72a5a1ce186e2492@mail.gmail.com>
	<78C4DFC09E8E448EA4AD6A4451E12C98@meteorroom>
Message-ID: <E08FC05A9EEA4B6EB885B6509F72AC76@JeffPC>

And if www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com is a little long for anyone to 
type, I have also set up this shorter address! ;-)

http://eom.imca.cc

Cheers,

Jeff



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dave Gheesling" <dave at fallingrocks.com>
To: "'Galactic Stone & Ironworks'" <meteoritemike at gmail.com>; "'habibi 
abdelaziz'" <azizhabibi at yahoo.com>
Cc: "'meteorite list'" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 9:06 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] IMCA , encyclopdia of meteorite


> All,
> Not only is www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com a great place to explore
> quite a few meteorite collections, it is a wonderful place to LIST YOUR 
> OWN
> COLLECTION if you haven't done so already!  Many articles about the need 
> to
> properly catalog meteorite collections have appeared over the years,
> including one I wrote not long ago (see:
> http://www.fallingrocks.com/FRarticle-082009.htm ), and the IMCA's EOM is
> REALLY EASY TO USE and just a great way to catalog your collection...
> All the best,
> Dave
> www.fallingrocks.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Galactic
> Stone & Ironworks
> Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 9:14 PM
> To: habibi abdelaziz
> Cc: meteorite list
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] IMCA , encyclopdia of meteorite
>
> Hi Aziz and List,
>
> I agree.  The Encyclopedia of Meteorites is the world's best way to 
> explore
> some of the most interesting  private meteorite collections.
> I wish all institutions holding meteorites had an online interface open to
> the public like the Encyclopedia.
>
> Best regards and happy huntings,
>
> MikeG
>
>
> On 12/5/09, habibi abdelaziz <azizhabibi at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> bravo, l'imca pour ce travail magnefique;
>>
>> i didnt see that's huge job there is a long time and i see this is 3
>> days i can't close my labtop; full of photo of  everything collection
>> ,images; wow, we coundn't found better place to spend a good time,
>>
>> our work is gratified when you see all those beautyfull photos
>>
>> again barvo
>> aziz habibi
>>
>>  <font style="BACKGROUND-COLOR:#40ffff;" face="comic sans ms">habibi
>> aziz box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco phone. 21235576145
>> fax.21235576170</font>
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>
>
> --
> .........................................................
> Michael Gilmer (Florida, USA)
> Member of the Meteoritical Society.
> Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com
> FaceBook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
> MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale
> Twitter - Twitter - http://twitter.com/GalacticStone eBay -
> http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/maypickle
> ..........................................................
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> 



From info at meteorites.com.au  Mon Dec  7 03:49:41 2009
From: info at meteorites.com.au (Jeff Kuyken)
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 19:49:41 +1100
Subject: [meteorite-list] ScaleCubes.com
Message-ID: <52FFEC1217C5420AA820676631F1EBC6@JeffPC>

Hi all,

I recently decided to try something a little different and had some scale
cubes made up. Not your usual cubes either as these are made from Tungsten
Carbide with a tolerance of around just 0.05mm or less making them about the
most precise cubes I know of. Anyhow, you can read all about it and the
story behind them here:

http://www.scalecubes.com/about.html

Each cube has their own individual serial number on the bottom. The list of
available numbers is on the site and I intend to do the best I can with
requests. But if it becomes too difficult with specific requests then I will
remove that option. In all likelyhood, once this initial offer has been made
to the Met List, I will likely remove the serial number option before
posting them for sale elsewhere.

If anyone has any questions please feel free to contact me off-list.

Cheers,

Jeff





From altmann at meteorite-martin.de  Mon Dec  7 08:10:37 2009
From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann)
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 14:10:37 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] In memoriam Walter Zeitschel
Message-ID: <000101ca773e$abec0590$07b22959@name86d88d87e2>

Last night Walter Zeitschel has left us.

http://kuerzer.de/WalterZeitschel

Walter was one of the most outstanding meteorite personalities of our times
and one of, if not the greatest collector of the 20th century.

Walter's meteorite specimens were for so many for us the doorstep to our
lifelong fascination for those irons and rocks from space.
Countless collectors he led to our hobby, long ago before meteorite
collecting was as popular as today; till today.

Our thoughts now are with his wife Nikki and his family. 



From majbaermann at web.de  Mon Dec  7 08:31:53 2009
From: majbaermann at web.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Matthias_B=E4rmann?=)
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 14:31:53 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] In memoriam Walter Zeitschel
References: <000101ca773e$abec0590$07b22959@name86d88d87e2>
Message-ID: <42353C63D4F84802BFB9913E06639E23@thinkcentre>

Sad news, Martin.

Unfortunately I'm not long enough a meteorite-aficionado, so my chance to 
know Walter Zeitschel personally wasn't really good. In any case, once I've 
been in contact with him via email and felt his intense engagement for the 
matter of the heavenly bodies immediately.

May he rest in peace. My compassion is with his family and friends.

Best regards,

Matthias Baermann

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Martin Altmann" <altmann at meteorite-martin.de>
To: <Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 2:10 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] In memoriam Walter Zeitschel


> Last night Walter Zeitschel has left us.
>
> http://kuerzer.de/WalterZeitschel
>
> Walter was one of the most outstanding meteorite personalities of our 
> times
> and one of, if not the greatest collector of the 20th century.
>
> Walter's meteorite specimens were for so many for us the doorstep to our
> lifelong fascination for those irons and rocks from space.
> Countless collectors he led to our hobby, long ago before meteorite
> collecting was as popular as today; till today.
>
> Our thoughts now are with his wife Nikki and his family.
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From almitt at kconline.com  Mon Dec  7 09:03:27 2009
From: almitt at kconline.com (al mitt)
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 09:03:27 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] In memoriam Walter Zeitschel
In-Reply-To: <42353C63D4F84802BFB9913E06639E23@thinkcentre>
References: <000101ca773e$abec0590$07b22959@name86d88d87e2>
	<42353C63D4F84802BFB9913E06639E23@thinkcentre>
Message-ID: <0F5702DD10D8413A98BDED494C1AB709@StarmanPC>

Hi Martin and all,

In the early days, when there were very few dealers selling items, I 
contacted Walter and asked to be put on his mailing list. Even though I 
never bought very much from him, he was always kind to send a catalog to me 
so I could enjoy all of his offerings. I always got a kick out of having to 
convert dollars so I would know just how much something would cost me in his 
catalog. He was a true collector and the meteorite world has lost another 
great person!

--AL Mitterling


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Matthias B?rmann" <majbaermann at web.de>
To: "Martin Altmann" <altmann at meteorite-martin.de>; 
<Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 8:31 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] In memoriam Walter Zeitschel


> Sad news, Martin.
>
> Unfortunately I'm not long enough a meteorite-aficionado, so my chance to 
> know Walter Zeitschel personally wasn't really good. In any case, once 
> I've been in contact with him via email and felt his intense engagement 
> for the matter of the heavenly bodies immediately.
>
> May he rest in peace. My compassion is with his family and friends.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Matthias Baermann
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Martin Altmann" <altmann at meteorite-martin.de>
> To: <Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 2:10 PM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] In memoriam Walter Zeitschel
>
>
>> Last night Walter Zeitschel has left us.
>>
>> http://kuerzer.de/WalterZeitschel
>>
>> Walter was one of the most outstanding meteorite personalities of our 
>> times
>> and one of, if not the greatest collector of the 20th century.
>>
>> Walter's meteorite specimens were for so many for us the doorstep to our
>> lifelong fascination for those irons and rocks from space.
>> Countless collectors he led to our hobby, long ago before meteorite
>> collecting was as popular as today; till today.
>>
>> Our thoughts now are with his wife Nikki and his family.
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> 




From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com  Mon Dec  7 09:04:21 2009
From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold)
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 06:04:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] walter z.
Message-ID: <687195.8689.qm@web57806.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Good morning list.It is always hard to accept the passing of an icon in the met world.I never met or knew walter,but I had heard he was one of the greats in this field.I know he shall be missed.My regrets go out to his family and friends.
?Steve R. Arnold, Chicago!! 


From sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com  Mon Dec  7 09:35:22 2009
From: sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com (Steve Dunklee)
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 06:35:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] How much survives entry?
In-Reply-To: <5B3A8BD39F184FA4A89DDB5E30E031DC@bellatrix>
Message-ID: <602812.406.qm@web33206.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

mass converted to light would require fusion. all of the mass of a meteorite is retained by the earth. most is dust from ablation. how much reaches the ground depends on a lot of variables like velocity of impact angle of impact, specific gravity of meteorite, water content or volatile gas content of meteorite. even the humidity of the air or density of ion count in the magnetosphere. in most cases all of the meteorite vaporises. or explodes. from impact with the ionosphere. its very thin but like hitting a brick wall at 17kmph. so saying how much is going to survive is like asking how many licks it will take to get to the center of a tootsiepop lol


--- On Thu, 12/3/09, Chris Peterson <clp at alumni.caltech.edu> wrote:

> From: Chris Peterson <clp at alumni.caltech.edu>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] How much survives entry?
> To: "meteorite list" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Date: Thursday, December 3, 2009, 9:39 PM
> I think that you can usually figure
> that 95-99% of the mass of parent meteoroid is lost. That
> seems pretty consistent with the estimated mass of observed
> fireballs compared with the mass of recovered meteorites.
> 
> Obviously, what is typical is pretty loosely defined; I
> don't doubt that there are exceptions to the rule.
> 
> Chris
> 
> *****************************************
> Chris L Peterson
> Cloudbait Observatory
> http://www.cloudbait.com
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Kowalski"
> <damoclid at yahoo.com>
> To: "meteorite list" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 5:45 PM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] How much survives entry?
> 
> 
> > Does anyone have a rough estimate on how much
> material, say ordinary chondrite, is lost during entry? 80%
> converted to light, heat and dust? 90%? 99.9%?
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      


From darryl at dof3.com  Mon Dec  7 10:21:31 2009
From: darryl at dof3.com (Darryl Pitt)
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 10:21:31 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] In memoriam Walter Zeitschel
In-Reply-To: <000101ca773e$abec0590$07b22959@name86d88d87e2>
References: <000101ca773e$abec0590$07b22959@name86d88d87e2>
Message-ID: <09A0CE83-68D4-4F43-B56E-AE4AA152E4C7@dof3.com>



Martin,

Thanks you for this posting....and if you could please be so kind to  
forward messages of condolence---including this heartfelt note---to  
his family.

For those who are not aware....

In the late 80s,  two major figures had an unparalleled impact on  
meteorite collecting (and on me personally).  Cut from very different  
cloth but similarly impassioned, Bob Haag and Walter Zeitschel were  
perfect compliments (and nearly stereotypical caricatures of the lands  
from where they hailed): the American showman/impressario and the  
resolute German collector.  With capital "Ys," they were the Yin and  
Yang of the meteorite world, and I, among so many, were blessed to  
have Walter's sobriety, wisdom and wonderful good humor in my life.   
Why mention Bob's name in this brief tribute to Walter?  Because  
everyone should know that Walter was, and forever will be, every bit  
as important a figure as Bob, and in too many published references he  
has not received his due. With a collection that was breathtaking in  
scope, and a passion to match, there are a handful of meteorite  
collectors/dealers in the pantheon of greats who truly made a  
difference, and Walter---who didn't ride a wave but who was the wave--- 
is among them.

With pause and sadness....

Darryl






On Dec 7, 2009, at 8:10 AM, Martin Altmann wrote:

> Last night Walter Zeitschel has left us.
>
> http://kuerzer.de/WalterZeitschel
>
> Walter was one of the most outstanding meteorite personalities of  
> our times
> and one of, if not the greatest collector of the 20th century.
>
> Walter's meteorite specimens were for so many for us the doorstep to  
> our
> lifelong fascination for those irons and rocks from space.
> Countless collectors he led to our hobby, long ago before meteorite
> collecting was as popular as today; till today.
>
> Our thoughts now are with his wife Nikki and his family.
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From clp at alumni.caltech.edu  Mon Dec  7 10:22:03 2009
From: clp at alumni.caltech.edu (Chris Peterson)
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 08:22:03 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] How much survives entry?
References: <602812.406.qm@web33206.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <E03A093B721F47CF99E5B30BBAF6C2DE@bellatrix>

It's certainly true in the strictest sense that virtually 100% of the mass 
survives entry. However, I think most people here quite correctly 
interpreted the original question in terms of how much mass ends up as 
something you can hold in your hand at the end of the day- not dust and gas!

Chris

*****************************************
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve Dunklee" <sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com>
To: "meteorite list" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>; "Chris Peterson" 
<clp at alumni.caltech.edu>
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 7:35 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] How much survives entry?


> mass converted to light would require fusion. all of the mass of a 
> meteorite is retained by the earth. most is dust from ablation. how much 
> reaches the ground depends on a lot of variables like velocity of impact 
> angle of impact, specific gravity of meteorite, water content or volatile 
> gas content of meteorite. even the humidity of the air or density of ion 
> count in the magnetosphere. in most cases all of the meteorite vaporises. 
> or explodes. from impact with the ionosphere. its very thin but like 
> hitting a brick wall at 17kmph. so saying how much is going to survive is 
> like asking how many licks it will take to get to the center of a 
> tootsiepop lol



From gsac at gmx.net  Mon Dec  7 10:34:54 2009
From: gsac at gmx.net (Alexander Seidel)
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 2009 16:34:54 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] In memoriam Walter Zeitschel
In-Reply-To: <0F5702DD10D8413A98BDED494C1AB709@StarmanPC>
References: <000101ca773e$abec0590$07b22959@name86d88d87e2>
	<42353C63D4F84802BFB9913E06639E23@thinkcentre>
	<0F5702DD10D8413A98BDED494C1AB709@StarmanPC>
Message-ID: <20091207153454.72290@gmx.net>

I have personally met Walter on several occasions, and my 
very first meteorite, a 16.3 g Allende, was bought from him 
as early as almost forty years ago (PS: this specimen is, 
of course, still in my collection).

Walter was a great guy, a true pioneer of meteorite
collecting in Germany, one of the "first addresses" for
many of us oldie collectors, a good advisor and supplier,
a warm-hearted and good-humoured man. 

We will truly miss him.

Alex
Berlin/Germany


-------- Original-Nachricht --------
> Datum: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 09:03:27 -0500
> Von: "al mitt" <almitt at kconline.com>
> An: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] In memoriam Walter Zeitschel

> Hi Martin and all,
> 
> In the early days, when there were very few dealers selling items, I 
> contacted Walter and asked to be put on his mailing list. Even though I 
> never bought very much from him, he was always kind to send a catalog to
> me 
> so I could enjoy all of his offerings. I always got a kick out of having
> to 
> convert dollars so I would know just how much something would cost me in
> his 
> catalog. He was a true collector and the meteorite world has lost another 
> great person!
> 
> --AL Mitterling
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Matthias B?rmann" <majbaermann at web.de>
> To: "Martin Altmann" <altmann at meteorite-martin.de>; 
> <Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 8:31 AM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] In memoriam Walter Zeitschel
> 
> 
> > Sad news, Martin.
> >
> > Unfortunately I'm not long enough a meteorite-aficionado, so my chance
> to 
> > know Walter Zeitschel personally wasn't really good. In any case, once 
> > I've been in contact with him via email and felt his intense engagement 
> > for the matter of the heavenly bodies immediately.
> >
> > May he rest in peace. My compassion is with his family and friends.
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Matthias Baermann
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Martin Altmann" <altmann at meteorite-martin.de>
> > To: <Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> > Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 2:10 PM
> > Subject: [meteorite-list] In memoriam Walter Zeitschel
> >
> >
> >> Last night Walter Zeitschel has left us.
> >>
> >> http://kuerzer.de/WalterZeitschel
> >>
> >> Walter was one of the most outstanding meteorite personalities of our 
> >> times
> >> and one of, if not the greatest collector of the 20th century.
> >>
> >> Walter's meteorite specimens were for so many for us the doorstep to
> our
> >> lifelong fascination for those irons and rocks from space.
> >> Countless collectors he led to our hobby, long ago before meteorite
> >> collecting was as popular as today; till today.
> >>
> >> Our thoughts now are with his wife Nikki and his family.
> >>
> >> ______________________________________________
> >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> >> Meteorite-list mailing list
> >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >
> > ______________________________________________
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >
> > 
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Mon Dec  7 11:37:50 2009
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 2009 08:37:50 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] ScaleCubes.com
In-Reply-To: <52FFEC1217C5420AA820676631F1EBC6@JeffPC>
References: <52FFEC1217C5420AA820676631F1EBC6@JeffPC>
Message-ID: <4B1D2F5E.9040400@meteoritesusa.com>

Great site Jeff! Good job and an awesome idea!

Regards,
Eric Wichman
Meteorites USA



Jeff Kuyken wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I recently decided to try something a little different and had some scale
> cubes made up. Not your usual cubes either as these are made from 
> Tungsten
> Carbide with a tolerance of around just 0.05mm or less making them 
> about the
> most precise cubes I know of. Anyhow, you can read all about it and the
> story behind them here:
>
> http://www.scalecubes.com/about.html
>
> Each cube has their own individual serial number on the bottom. The 
> list of
> available numbers is on the site and I intend to do the best I can with
> requests. But if it becomes too difficult with specific requests then 
> I will
> remove that option. In all likelyhood, once this initial offer has 
> been made
> to the Met List, I will likely remove the serial number option before
> posting them for sale elsewhere.
>
> If anyone has any questions please feel free to contact me off-list.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>



From keithandana at gmail.com  Mon Dec  7 12:16:50 2009
From: keithandana at gmail.com (Keith and Dana Jenkerson)
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 10:16:50 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD- Admire Website- New Pieces!
Message-ID: <f9cf59510912070916h15d7662cs3dc25dcf7668408b@mail.gmail.com>

Hello, Everyone!

We want to announce our new Admire Pallasite Slices and our website
that features them -

http://www.admiremeteorites.com/AdmirePallasiteMeteoriteSlicesForSale.html.

We have added several awesome slices and we are currently adding and
updating the site to share the stories and adventures that we had in
searching for this wonderful meteorite.

Please feel free to contact us if you have any questions!

Have a great day!

Keith and Dana

--
KD Meteorites
kdmeteorites.com
Keith and Dana Jenkerson
4596 N. Vickie Lane
Kingman, AZ., 86409
928-399-0140
928-277-9293


From raremeteorites at yahoo.com  Mon Dec  7 12:16:25 2009
From: raremeteorites at yahoo.com (Adam Hupe)
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 09:16:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Meteorites, Gold and More!
Message-ID: <25431.36715.qm@web30707.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Dear List Members,
 
I have several great items ending today and tomorrow. Please take a look if 
you have time as there are many items that still do not have an opening bid of 
just 99 cents. I will also be transitioning some of my offerings to solid gold 
items since the final price realized for most meteorite sales have been far 
below my costs and they cannot be replaced once gone.  Gold has been doing much 
better than meteorites at $39.00/gram even though it is millions of times more 
common. As long as meteorites are treated like commodities instead of the true 
rarities they really are, I see the market remaining thin during a tough economy. The wholesale price of NWA material from suppliers has increased two-fold, go figure.  If 
you are interested in gold, take a look as I will be loading several solid gold 
items throughout the week.  Don't forget to check out the rare meteorites 
also.
 

All Auctions Can Be Found At This link:
http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/raremeteorites!_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZQQ_mdoZ


Thank 
you for looking and if you are bidding, good luck.


Best 
Regards,

------------------------------------
Adam Hupe
The Hupe 
Collection
Team LunarRock
IMCA 2185
raremeteorites at yahoo.com


From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Mon Dec  7 13:50:55 2009
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 2009 10:50:55 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite ID Email
Message-ID: <4B1D4E8F.9040803@meteoritesusa.com>

Hi List,

Every now and then I get an email that defies all logic...

I've removed the contact information and name of the person to protect 
their privacy.

Below is one of those emails...

-----------------------------------
BEGIN EMAIL
-----------------------------------
Dear Sir,
 
My friend got a piece of metorite.  if i place a mirror near it, the 
mirror will shatter evenly.  if i place a candle near it, the candle 
cant relite. if i place a pcs of mercury (lighter) that lighter will not 
work.. i would like to know what ty of metorite is that? and how much 
will it worth? it's weight appx 3.75 kilo. Oh! also if i make a sharp 
scratch on the stone it will automatic closed and seal back to the 
original color.  my friend also told me that this pcs can sell to NASA 
cuz NASA will use it. NASA will use it to make the pointing part on the 
shuttle that shoot to the sky.  i dont know if it's true but hoping 
someone out there can let me know a little bit about it..
 
thanks
-----------------------------------
END EMAIL
-----------------------------------

Has anyone else received this one or one like it?

Regards,
Eric Wichman
Meteorites USA


From stm at bellsouth.net  Mon Dec  7 14:15:59 2009
From: stm at bellsouth.net (Sean T. Murray)
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 14:15:59 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite ID Email
In-Reply-To: <4B1D4E8F.9040803@meteoritesusa.com>
References: <4B1D4E8F.9040803@meteoritesusa.com>
Message-ID: <0480A23AE7324AFCB29FA2321EDD6358@Platinum2>

I have read that before somewhere - it may have been in an eBay auction... 
this would have been some months back... I remember the mirror shattering 
and the candle relighting comments specifically.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Meteorites USA" <eric at meteoritesusa.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 1:50 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite ID Email


> Hi List,
>
> Every now and then I get an email that defies all logic...
>
> I've removed the contact information and name of the person to protect 
> their privacy.
>
> Below is one of those emails...
>
> -----------------------------------
> BEGIN EMAIL
> -----------------------------------
> Dear Sir,
>
> My friend got a piece of metorite.  if i place a mirror near it, the 
> mirror will shatter evenly.  if i place a candle near it, the candle cant 
> relite. if i place a pcs of mercury (lighter) that lighter will not work.. 
> i would like to know what ty of metorite is that? and how much will it 
> worth? it's weight appx 3.75 kilo. Oh! also if i make a sharp scratch on 
> the stone it will automatic closed and seal back to the original color. 
> my friend also told me that this pcs can sell to NASA cuz NASA will use 
> it. NASA will use it to make the pointing part on the shuttle that shoot 
> to the sky.  i dont know if it's true but hoping someone out there can let 
> me know a little bit about it..
>
> thanks
> -----------------------------------
> END EMAIL
> -----------------------------------
>
> Has anyone else received this one or one like it?
>
> Regards,
> Eric Wichman
> Meteorites USA
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From ensaist at gmail.com  Mon Dec  7 15:03:29 2009
From: ensaist at gmail.com (Ahmad bouragaa)
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 21:03:29 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA 869
Message-ID: <2baeaea40912071203p39e3d5cfr56933e71876407b6@mail.gmail.com>

Hello all;
I hope every one have an nice day; for any interessing on NWA 869; enjoy:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/36221954 at N07/4167236522/; and contact me
off the list;
best regards
Ahmed


From lintonius at earthlink.net  Mon Dec  7 15:07:40 2009
From: lintonius at earthlink.net (Linton Rohr)
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 12:07:40 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite ID Email
References: <4B1D4E8F.9040803@meteoritesusa.com>
Message-ID: <C4C0BCA5CA7440F4A68CE2C15BC19736@D190TH71>

Steeeeeeeeee...range.
That is truly bizarro, Eric.
I don hav dat ty of metorite yet.
Linton

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Meteorites USA" <eric at meteoritesusa.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 10:50 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite ID Email


> Hi List,
> 
> Every now and then I get an email that defies all logic...
> 
> I've removed the contact information and name of the person to protect 
> their privacy.
> 
> Below is one of those emails...
> 
> -----------------------------------
> BEGIN EMAIL
> -----------------------------------
> Dear Sir,
> 
> My friend got a piece of metorite.  if i place a mirror near it, the 
> mirror will shatter evenly.  if i place a candle near it, the candle 
> cant relite. if i place a pcs of mercury (lighter) that lighter will not 
> work.. i would like to know what ty of metorite is that? and how much 
> will it worth? it's weight appx 3.75 kilo. Oh! also if i make a sharp 
> scratch on the stone it will automatic closed and seal back to the 
> original color.  my friend also told me that this pcs can sell to NASA 
> cuz NASA will use it. NASA will use it to make the pointing part on the 
> shuttle that shoot to the sky.  i dont know if it's true but hoping 
> someone out there can let me know a little bit about it..
> 
> thanks
> -----------------------------------
> END EMAIL
> -----------------------------------
> 
> Has anyone else received this one or one like it?
> 
> Regards,
> Eric Wichman
> Meteorites USA
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


From epgrondine at yahoo.com  Mon Dec  7 15:11:15 2009
From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine)
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 12:11:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Is comet fragment capture possible?
Message-ID: <27157.51408.qm@web36902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi - 

I have been contacted by Michael Davias, who is putting for the novel hypothesis that some fragments of Comet Encke entered into Earth orbit from Encke's short period orbit, and then impacted the Earth at low speeds later on. He and his associates have set out some of their work here:
http://perigeezero.org/

Including geological data.

As I can no longer work out the mechanics of this, nor evaluate his geological claims, I suggested to him that I forward his message to specialists who could. It follows; please reply to him, and cc me a copy.

E.P. Grondine
Man and Impact in the Americas

> From: cintos at me.com
> Subject: Re: Younger Dryas Boundary Manifold
> Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 13:23:02 -0500
> To: epgrondine at hotmail.com
> 
> Greetings Ed:
> Your recent comments are very helpful and
> appreciated.  With respect to the capture and the
> physics of the harmonics involved, I have no great
> confidence in my specific proposals.  however, the
> conjecture has been know to the impact community for a
> number of years. I first promoted to Schultz, Peiser,
> napier, etc back in 2006.  

> I have heard all the responses....  Every
> one has been based on ... "Well, possible but
> statistically, that is unlikely".  Dammed the
> statistics - let's look at the real-world
> evidence! My point here is that it did happen, and it
> was a "gentle" impact, not one from a 27km/sec
> comet...

> Nevertheless, I would encourage you to forward
> on the concept to whomever you may feel would have a
> critical point of view based on their expertise. A good
> place for the conversation to start would be to point them
> at the posts I am making to Google Earth's Nature and
> Geography (Moderated) forum:  Inferred
> Orientation of Distal Ejecta
> - Michael
 


      


From michael at rocksfromspace.org  Mon Dec  7 16:45:52 2009
From: michael at rocksfromspace.org (Michael Johnson)
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 13:45:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December 7,
	2009
Message-ID: <1916539111.383111260222352921.JavaMail.root@mbs1.homesteadmail.com>

http://www.rocksfromspace.org/December_7_2009.html



From meteorites at online.nl  Mon Dec  7 19:16:11 2009
From: meteorites at online.nl (Jan Bartels)
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 01:16:11 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] [AD] Zagami 5.22 grams
Message-ID: <2E737B290E9C4BC3984A24F430FE1E12@laptop>

Listoids,

Due to a non paying "buyer" here's another listing of the Zagami 5.22 grams.
Starting bids at $2100.
Free shipping world wide.
Paypal only. Pictures on request off list pls.

Best,
Jan
IMCA 9833 



From meteorites at online.nl  Mon Dec  7 20:04:59 2009
From: meteorites at online.nl (Jan Bartels)
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 02:04:59 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] Ryan Pawelski contact. Rest ignore pls.
Message-ID: <4517B1AF328C446FB898E9211125F4CA@laptop>

Ryan,

My mails keep bouncing back.
I keep on getting a message your mailbox is full....


From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Mon Dec  7 20:10:00 2009
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 17:10:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars Odyssey THEMIS Images: November 30 - December
	4, 2009
Message-ID: <200912080110.nB81A0MD027010@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>


MARS ODYSSEY THEMIS IMAGES
November 30 - December 4, 2009

o Dark Slope Streaks (30 November 2009)
  http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20091130a

o Arsia Mons Flows (01 December 2009)
  http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20091201a

o Melas Chasma Floor (02 December 2009)
  http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20091202a

o Coprates Chasma (03 December 2009)
  http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20091203a

o Coprates Chasma Floor (04 December 2009)
  http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20091204a


All of the THEMIS images are archived here:

http://themis.asu.edu/latest.html

NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory manages the 2001 Mars Odyssey mission 
for NASA's Office of Space Science, Washington, D.C. The Thermal Emission 
Imaging System (THEMIS) was developed by Arizona State University,
Tempe, in co.oration with Raytheon Santa Barbara Remote Sensing. 
The THEMIS investigation is led by Dr. Philip Christensen at Arizona State 
University. Lockheed Martin Astronautics, Denver, is the prime contractor 
for the Odyssey project, and developed and built the orbiter. Mission 
operations are conducted jointly from Lockheed Martin and from JPL, a 
division of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena. 





From piebear at cox.net  Mon Dec  7 20:46:19 2009
From: piebear at cox.net (Arlene Schlazer)
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 17:46:19 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] "Handbook of Iron Meteorites, " by Vagn F. Buchwald
Message-ID: <57BDD1EE07884962AA3D181C6A9BC49C@PiePC>

Hello Everyone,
I'm interested in acquiring a copy of the "Handbook of Iron Meteorites," by 
Vagn F. Buchwald.....any ideas where I might find one?  Nothing shows up on 
Amazon or Ebay........off list please....Arlene Schlazer 



From skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com  Mon Dec  7 22:07:47 2009
From: skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com (Joe Kerchner)
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 19:07:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Illinois Meteorwrong Announcement/Sort of Ad
In-Reply-To: <20091205111457.clhbsuun8ao0gocc@webmail.localnet.com>
References: <20091205111457.clhbsuun8ao0gocc@webmail.localnet.com>
Message-ID: <71796.82432.qm@web43404.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

I have added a few new pieces. take a look, even if you dont want to
buy any, it is probably one of the 3 best meteorwrongs known. It has
lots of armored clasts, metal veins, very attracted to a magnet, I have
sold a lot of this, there are not many pieces that are over 20 grams
left, many of the rest are smaller ones, so if you want a nice sized
one you should act very soon. Here is a link to the for sale page:

http://illinoismeteorites.com/mendotawrongsforsale.htm

Best Wishes,
Joe Kerchner
http://illinoismeteorites.com
http://skyrockcafe.com




----- Original Message ----
From: "almitt2 at localnet.com" <almitt2 at localnet.com>
To: Meteorite List <Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Sat, December 5, 2009 10:14:57 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Illinois Meteorwrong Announcement/Sort of Ad

Greetings,

Some of you may remember a while back that Joe Kerchner found some interesting looking specimens while out meteorite hunting. I was involved in helping him get the specimens to a researcher who has determined they are a good meteorwrong but not a meteorite.

Many may remember a number of meteorwrongs we have come a cross in the past like some of the Russian specimens that turned out to be a terrestrial basalt with nickel in it. I feel that Joe's specimens are an excellent meteorwrong and have added a sample to my collection. I thought others might want to contact him and add some also. He is offering some of this material up for sale. I have added a link so you can visit his site and consider some of this material or simply look at it.

http://illinoismeteorites.com/mendotawrongsforsale.htm

You can also contact him here directly. Have fun!


Joe Kerchner      illinoismeteorites at gmail.com

Not too often you come across material that looks so promising like Joe did but still turns out to not be the real McCoy. This is the sort of item that is fun to add to a collection. All my best!

--AL Mitterling
Mitterling Meteorites

______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



      


From epmajden at shaw.ca  Mon Dec  7 23:53:19 2009
From: epmajden at shaw.ca (Ed Majden)
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 20:53:19 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] How much survives entry?
Message-ID: <510AA0E2-66A0-4931-8302-3D5D1CBDDF00@shaw.ca>

> Subject: How much survives entry?
>
>  1.(Sterling K. Webb) wrote: How much survives entry?
>
>
>
> From the Handbook of Iron Meteorites, Volume One, by Vagn F. Buchwald
> states:  Results of studies indicate that 1-4 mm is lost per second of
> flight.  Ablation loss is probably confined to the part of the  
> trajectory
> that is luminous.  The lengths of the luminous trajectories range  
> from about
> 40 km (Bruderheim) to about 700 km (Orgueil).  Ablation can occur for
> periods of around 4-seconds to over one minute.  The total amount of
> material lost ranges from a few percent to 100% with an average  
> velocity of
> 10 km/second.  This is not a direct quote but has been edited.
> Ed Majden  -  Asteroid Majden 142368
> Courtenay, B.C. Canada
> http://www.members.shaw.ca/epmajden/
>
>
>


From STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com  Tue Dec  8 00:15:13 2009
From: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com (STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 00:15:13 EST
Subject: [meteorite-list] JaH 073 micrograph
Message-ID: <d1a.533c762a.384f3ae1@aol.com>

Hi list,  The email embed program for  images leaves a lot to be desired.  
The images are coarse and with out  detail but when I send a full size 
image, few get through to all of you that  request them.  

The solution?  I used PhotoShop to reduce the  image from 4000 pixel wide 
to 1000.  It will go through as an attachment  and still be large enough to 
have the necessary detail.

I know I promised  many of you to just "send the stupid pictures already" 
but I tried using my  address book to  "Send All" and I had a huge list.  
Most recipients  would not be interested in a JaH 073 vein. 

Anyway,  The shot is at  700X of a vein in JaH 073.  In incident light!!!  
My favorite JaH 073  stuff that I think to of been formed in the presence of 
water (Only by  comparison to terrestrial rocks ((I don't have an SEM)) ).

I have been  working on a new Neophot adapter and this is getting just 
about where I like  it.  I have a ton more (and that's a lot considering they 
are digital) that  I will post to my galley in a week or so.

If you want a look, please  email me!

Also,  I just ordered my centimeter cube from  Jeff    
http://www.scalecubes.com/about.html    If  you haven't ordered yours already then mine will be 
a lower number than  yours!  How will you sleep with that?

Tom Phillips  



From pierremariepele at yahoo.fr  Tue Dec  8 00:28:49 2009
From: pierremariepele at yahoo.fr (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Pel=E9_Pierre-Marie?=)
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 05:28:49 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD> Rarities for sale : Ensisheim, Kernouve 14g,
	Tanezrouft 057 on ebay
Message-ID: <616898.84263.qm@web23004.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hello List Members,

just to tell you that for 4 days left, you can bid on 3 great auctions for :
14 grams Kernouve fragment
1.1 gram Ensisheim slice
3.8 grams Tanezrouft 057 (C4 with CK4/CV4 affinities)

http://shop.ebay.fr/moky99/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=

Pierre-Marie Pele
www.meteor-center.com


      



From pierremariepele at yahoo.fr  Tue Dec  8 00:29:28 2009
From: pierremariepele at yahoo.fr (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Pel=E9_Pierre-Marie?=)
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 05:29:28 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Second edition of my book "Les Meteorites de
	France" : I need your advice
Message-ID: <205208.73353.qm@web23007.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hello,

I'm planning to release a second edition of my book "Les Meteorites de France".  The first edition was issued on 2005. Since then, there were new falls and discoveries in France, and new documents and events.  This book "Les Meteorites de France" is considered as the most valuable source of information about french meteorites.

I want to release a second edition in 2010 probably, with all these new elements and new photos.  The first edition sold well but for the second one, my editor wants a black and white edition, with only a small booklet in color for the photos in the middle of the book.  The price would then be lowered because of the black and white pages.  First edition sold at about 40 euros (about 60 US$)

I want to question the Meteorite list members about these aspects :
-  is a lower price important ?
-  is black and white color a very important negative point ?
-  does a color booklet in the middle of the book a negative point ?
-  in general, do you buy second editions of meteorite books when you already own a first edition ?
-  if you're not fluent in french, would you buy a book in french ?

I thank you a lot in advance for your cooperation. You can also write to me directly at  pierremariepele at yahoo.fr

Best regards,

Pierre-Marie Pele
meteor-center.com



      



From fujmon at mac.com  Tue Dec  8 00:58:33 2009
From: fujmon at mac.com (Gary Fujihara)
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 2009 19:58:33 -1000
Subject: [meteorite-list] Scalecubes.com
In-Reply-To: <d1a.533c762a.384f3ae1@aol.com>
References: <d1a.533c762a.384f3ae1@aol.com>
Message-ID: <2D574904-0E6A-43F9-84A5-4F91A97E5445@mac.com>

On Dec 7, 2009, at 7:15 PM, STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com wrote:

> Also,  I just ordered my centimeter cube from  Jeff    
> http://www.scalecubes.com/about.html    If  you haven't ordered yours already then mine will be a lower number than  yours!  How will you sleep with that?

Oh I sleep just fine Tom.  But then again, I have my centimeter scale cube from Jeff in my hot little hand.  #0022.  ;^)

As a matter of fact it just got here in the mail today, and I was surprised at how quickly it arrived.  Terrific service surpassed only by quality of workmanship in the machining of these extraordinary cubes.  There is no comparison to my anodized aluminum cube.  It is made of much more dense material, so its less prone to skittering and sliding around when swapping out specimens on a photo shoot.  The edges are machined razor sharp - very precise.  It seems more resistant to casual bumps and scrapes than my aluminum cube, and I like the subtle coloring too.  I find this aesthetically pleasing in an object I did not think could exhibit aesthetics.  

Ah but I digress.  Its a cool cube and you should buy one.

Gary Fujihara
Big Kahuna Meteorites
105 Puhili Place
Hilo, Hawaii 96720
(808) 640-9161



From epmajden at shaw.ca  Tue Dec  8 01:09:03 2009
From: epmajden at shaw.ca (Ed Majden)
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 22:09:03 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fwd: Dr. Zdenek Ceplecha (1929-2009)
References: <7C209209-96C6-4672-ADC5-3C470BDED422@shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <039512BC-6DBB-498C-9BA3-F2783546C4E4@shaw.ca>



Begin forwarded message:
> Subject: Dr. Zdenek Ceplecha (1929-2009)
>
>
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>>
>>        Very sad news!  Zdenek Ceplecha will be missed by all.
>> Ed Majden
>> Courtenay, B.C. Canada.
>>
>> Begin forwarded message:
>>
>>> From: Jiri Borovicka <borovic at asu.cas.cz>
>>> denek Ceplecha (1929-2009)
>>>
>>> Dear colleagues and friends,
>>>
>>> it is sad to inform you that well-known Czech meteor astronomer
>>> Zdenek Ceplecha passed away on December 4, 2009, at the age
>>> of 80 years and 10 months.
>>>
>>> Zdenek was famous for the observation and analysis of the Pribram
>>> meteorite fall in 1959 - the first photographed meteorite fall
>>> and the first meteorite with known orbit. He, nevertheless,
>>> contributed to many fields of meteor astronomy, e.g. classification
>>> of fireballs and meteors, atmospheric fragmentation of meteoroids,
>>> fireball spectroscopy, dark flight of meteorites, influx
>>> of meteoritic material on Earth, and others. The European fireball
>>> network, which he founded in 1963, is still working today
>>> and the methods he invented are in use. His review article
>>> Meteor Phenomena and Bodies, which he published with several
>>> co-authors in 1998, is among the most cited papers in the field.
>>>
>>> Many of you have seen Zdenek at the conference Bolides and Meteorite
>>> Falls this May. He enjoyed the conference and was happy to
>>> see many friends. Unfortunately, his health started to deteriorate
>>> in September .....
>>>
>>>
>>> Jiri Borovicka
>>> also on behalf of Pavel Spurny (currently on field trip in  
>>> Australia)
>>>
>>>



From countdeiro at earthlink.net  Tue Dec  8 02:09:37 2009
From: countdeiro at earthlink.net (countdeiro at earthlink.net)
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 02:09:37 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Scalecubes.com
Message-ID: <18262723.1260256177705.JavaMail.root@wamui-june.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

On the strength of your excellent review, Gary, I have just bought two of the little dears. 

Count Deiro

-----Original Message-----
>From: Gary Fujihara <fujmon at mac.com>
>Sent: Dec 8, 2009 12:58 AM
>To: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com
>Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Scalecubes.com
>
>On Dec 7, 2009, at 7:15 PM, STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com wrote:
>
>> Also,  I just ordered my centimeter cube from  Jeff    
>> http://www.scalecubes.com/about.html    If  you haven't ordered yours already then mine will be a lower number than  yours!  How will you sleep with that?
>
>Oh I sleep just fine Tom.  But then again, I have my centimeter scale cube from Jeff in my hot little hand.  #0022.  ;^)
>
>As a matter of fact it just got here in the mail today, and I was surprised at how quickly it arrived.  Terrific service surpassed only by quality of workmanship in the machining of these extraordinary cubes.  There is no comparison to my anodized aluminum cube.  It is made of much more dense material, so its less prone to skittering and sliding around when swapping out specimens on a photo shoot.  The edges are machined razor sharp - very precise.  It seems more resistant to casual bumps and scrapes than my aluminum cube, and I like the subtle coloring too.  I find this aesthetically pleasing in an object I did not think could exhibit aesthetics.  
>
>Ah but I digress.  Its a cool cube and you should buy one.
>
>Gary Fujihara
>Big Kahuna Meteorites
>105 Puhili Place
>Hilo, Hawaii 96720
>(808) 640-9161
>
>______________________________________________
>http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>Meteorite-list mailing list
>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From pierremariepele at yahoo.fr  Tue Dec  8 02:51:12 2009
From: pierremariepele at yahoo.fr (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Pel=E9_Pierre-Marie?=)
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 07:51:12 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD> 982 grams Tafassasset for sale on ebay
Message-ID: <958246.61599.qm@web23007.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hello again,

sorry for posting a second ad the same day as the other one.

I just added a 982 grams full Tafassasset on ebay, a real rarity.  It's a museum piece, a little pricey but worthing it.

For IMCA members, I offer insured shipment with DHL (just tell me you're member of IMCA when paying for it).

http://shop.ebay.fr/moky99/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p4340

Pierre-Marie Pele


      



From vs.petrovich at gmail.com  Tue Dec  8 04:27:35 2009
From: vs.petrovich at gmail.com (Sergey Vasiliev)
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 10:27:35 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Ebay auctions
Message-ID: <JPELLBIMOJEBPCPOJGEBAEJOCKAA.vs.petrovich@gmail.com>

Hello List,

I have several auctions ending in two days.

- Large slice of Ozernoe (L6):
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200413615254
- Dar al Gani 400 (ALUN-A) - 0.93 g:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200413649079
- Great Zag (H3-6) - 2518 g:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200415401682

All can be seen at my ebay store:
http://stores.ebay.com/svassiliev

Thanks for your time!
Sergey
----------------------------------
Sergey Vasiliev
U Dalnice 839
Prague 5, 155 00
Czech Republic
-------------------
http://www.sv-meteorites.com
http://impactites.net
http://systematic-mineralogy.com
http://kazakhstan-minerals.com 



From STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com  Tue Dec  8 06:08:18 2009
From: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com (STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 06:08:18 EST
Subject: [meteorite-list] Scalecubes.com and Scale cube envy!
Message-ID: <d4a.60d07ee5.384f8da2@aol.com>

That's cool Gary,  I'm writing this at 3 AM  because now I can't sleep.  

Only in the meteorite world would any  one understand scale cube envy!

Tom

In a message dated 12/7/2009  10:59:32 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, 
fujmon at mac.com writes:
On Dec 7, 2009,  at 7:15 PM, STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com wrote:

> Also,  I just ordered  my centimeter cube from  Jeff    
>  http://www.scalecubes.com/about.html    If  you haven't  ordered yours 
already then mine will be a lower number than  yours!   How will you sleep 
with that?

Oh I sleep just fine Tom.  But then  again, I have my centimeter scale cube 
from Jeff in my hot little hand.   #0022.  ;^)

As a matter of fact it just got here in the mail today,  and I was 
surprised at how quickly it arrived.  Terrific service surpassed  only by quality of 
workmanship in the machining of these extraordinary  cubes.  There is no 
comparison to my anodized aluminum cube.  It is  made of much more dense 
material, so its less prone to skittering and sliding  around when swapping out 
specimens on a photo shoot.  The edges are  machined razor sharp - very 
precise.  It seems more resistant to casual  bumps and scrapes than my aluminum 
cube, and I like the subtle coloring  too.  I find this aesthetically 
pleasing in an object I did not think could  exhibit aesthetics.  

Ah but I digress.  Its a cool cube and  you should buy one.

Gary Fujihara
Big Kahuna Meteorites
105 Puhili  Place
Hilo, Hawaii 96720
(808)  640-9161

______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list  mailing  list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list   



From cynapse at charter.net  Tue Dec  8 07:29:12 2009
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Tue, 08 Dec 2009 07:29:12 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] That's a meteorite in my pocket AND I'm happy to
	see you!
In-Reply-To: <JPELLBIMOJEBPCPOJGEBAEJOCKAA.vs.petrovich@gmail.com>
References: <JPELLBIMOJEBPCPOJGEBAEJOCKAA.vs.petrovich@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <jihsh5pap87duvm27aboi0i6dhvdoq2td5@4ax.com>

http://www.registercitizen.com/articles/2009/12/08/news/doc4b1dd777c75cf840027983.txt


COPS: When charged with assault, man tries meteorite defense

Published: Tuesday, December 8, 2009

By TRACY KENNEDY

BANTAM ? A Kent man, in state police custody since Friday night on charges
stemming from an unusual visit that resulted in an alleged assault, posted a
$5,000 bond Monday for his release.

Christopher Chase, 29, 43 Bridge St., was arrested at 11:20 p.m. after a Skiff
Mountain Road resident complained Chase caused a disturbance at the home and
would not leave the premises.

Chase was charged with simple trespass, second-degree breach of peace,
third-degree assault, second-degree threatening and third-degree criminal
mischief. His case is scheduled for Dec. 21.

Timothy Brown, 46, received minor injuries during a scuffle with Chase when he
refused to leave. State Trooper Keith Lavoie saw the two men fighting when he
arrived at the home, according to a police report. Chase reportedly spit on
Brown and tore his clothes. Chase?s sweatshirt was also torn at the collar but
he was not injured, police said.

Chase said he drank some beer before arriving at the house and refused to tell
Brown or police why he was there. Apparently Chase said he wanted to show the
woman who lived at the residence a meteorite he had with him. He wanted to talk
to the residents in the house about NASA and claimed he worked with the CIA and
FBI, according to the report. Chase was convicted of third-degree assault and
violation of probation in October, breach of peace and first-degree criminal
trespass in February, and disorderly conduct and driving under the influence in
2008.


From oxytropidoceras at cox.net  Tue Dec  8 12:18:58 2009
From: oxytropidoceras at cox.net (oxytropidoceras at cox.net)
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 12:18:58 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Tsunami from Asteroid/Comet Impacts
Message-ID: <20091208121858.BOB6M.102230.imail@eastrmwml31>

Tsunami from Asteroid/Comet Impacts 

http://users.tpg.com.au/users/tps-seti/spacegd7.html

Australian Spaceguard Survey

http://users.tpg.com.au/users/tps-seti/spacegd.html

Yours,

Paul H.


From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Tue Dec  8 12:43:11 2009
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Tue, 08 Dec 2009 09:43:11 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Tsunami from Asteroid/Comet Impacts
In-Reply-To: <20091208121858.BOB6M.102230.imail@eastrmwml31>
References: <20091208121858.BOB6M.102230.imail@eastrmwml31>
Message-ID: <4B1E902F.4060209@meteoritesusa.com>

Thanks Paul,

What a great bit of information!

Regards,
Eric Wichman
Meteorites USA


oxytropidoceras at cox.net wrote:
> Tsunami from Asteroid/Comet Impacts 
>
> http://users.tpg.com.au/users/tps-seti/spacegd7.html
>
> Australian Spaceguard Survey
>
> http://users.tpg.com.au/users/tps-seti/spacegd.html
>
> Yours,
>
> Paul H.
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>   



From joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com  Tue Dec  8 13:08:14 2009
From: joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com (JoshuaTreeMuseum)
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 13:08:14 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Hawaiians Say No To Dryas Impact
Message-ID: <74C7F3B7D2B345A9B9121F6ACAB94E12@ET>

Aloha Listerians:

It seems they're having trouble replicating the original data.




http://www.hawaii.edu/news/article.php?aId=3280

Absence of evidence for a meteorite impact event 13,000 years ago
as a trigger for the Younger Dryas abrupt cooling and the Megafauna 
extinction
University of Hawai?i at Manoa

Contact:
Tara L Hicks Johnson, (808) 956-3151
Outreach Spec, School of Ocean and Earth Sciences and Technology
Francois Paquay, 808-673-3137
Graduate Student, Geology and Geophysics, SOEST

Posted: Dec. 7, 2009

An international team of scientists led by researchers at the University of 
Hawai?i at Manoa have found no evidence supporting an extraterrestrial 
impact event at the onset of the Younger Dryas ~13,000 years ago.

The Younger Dryas is an abrupt cooling event in Earth's history. It 
coincided with the extinction of many large mammals including the woolly 
mammoth, the saber toothed jaguar and many sloths. This cooling period is 
generally considered to be the result of the complex global climate system, 
possibly spurred on by a reduction or slowdown of the thermohaline 
circulation in North America. This paradigm was challenged two years ago by 
a group of researchers that reported finding high iridium concentrations in 
terrestrial sediments dated during this time period, which led them to 
theorise that an impact event was instead the instigator of this climate 
shift. A team led by Fran?ois Paquay, a Doctoral graduate student in the 
Department of Geology and Geophysics at the University of Hawai?i at Manoa 
(UHM) decided to also investigate this theory, to add more evidence to what 
they considered a conceptually appealing theory. However, not only were they 
unable to replicate the results found by the other researchers, but 
additional lines of evidence failed to support an impact theory for the 
onset of the Younger Dryas. Their results will be published in the December 
7th early online edition of the prestigious journal the Proceedings of the 
National Academy of Sciences.

The idea that an impact event may have been the instigator for this cooling 
period was appealing because of several alleged impact markers, especially 
the high iridium concentrations that the previous team reported. However, it 
is difficult for proponents of this theory to explain why no impact crater 
of this age is known. "There is a black mat layer across North America which 
is correlated to the Younger Dryas climatic shift seen in Greenland ice 
cores dated at 13 thousand years ago by radio carbon," explains Paquay. 
"Initially I thought this type of layer could be associated with an impact 
event because concentration in the proxies of widespread wildfires are sky 
high. That plus very high levels of iridium (which is one indicator used to 
indicate extraterrestrial impact events). So the theory was conceptually 
appealing, but because of the missing impact site, the idea of one or 
multiple airburst arose."

To corroborate the theory, Paquay and his colleagues decided to take a 
three-pronged approach. The first was to replicate the original researchers 
data, the second step was to look for other tracers, specifically osmium 
isotopes, of extraterrestrial matter in those rocks, and the third step was 
to look for these concentrations in other settings. "Because there are so 
many aspects to the impact theory, we decided to just focus on geochemical 
evidence that was associated with it, like the concentration of iridium and 
other platinum group elements, and the osmium isotopes," says Paquay. "We 
also decided to look in very high resolution sediment cores across North 
America, and yet we could find nothing in our data to support their theory."

The team includes American, Belgian and Canadian researchers. Analysis of 
the sediments was done both at UHM and in Belgium, using the same sediments 
from the same interval and indepedently did the analysis work and got 
similar results. Both the marine and terrestrial sediment records do not 
indicate that an impact event was the trigger for the transition into the 
Younger Dryas cold period. "The marine and terrestrial record both 
complement each other to support this finding," concludes Paquay. "That's 
what makes the beauty of this study."

This project was supported by the Geological Society of America and the 
National Science Foundation. Sediment samples were provided by the 
Integrated Ocean Drilling Program.

The other authors from this paper are Greg Ravizza (also from UHM), Steven 
Goderis and Philippe Claeys from Vrije Universiteit Brussel, Frank Vanhaeck 
from the Universiteit Ghent, Matthew Boyd from Lakehead University, Todd A. 
Surovell from the University of Wyoming at Laramie, and Vance T. Holliday 
and C. Vance Haynes, Jr. from the University of Arizona at Tucson.

This research will be presented at the American Geophysical Union Fall 2009 
Meeting in San Francisco. Wednesday December 16th,  2:52 p.m. - 3:04 p.m. 
room 2006 Moscone West

Session Title: PP33B. "Younger Dryas Boundary: Extraterrestrial Impact or 
Not? II"

 Absence of geochemical evidence for an impact event at the 
B?lling-Aller?d/Younger Dryas transition. Fran?ois S. Paquay, Greg Ravizza 
(University of Hawai?i at Manoa), Steven Goderis,  Philippe Claeys (Vrije 
Universiteit Brussel), Steven Goderis, Frank Vanhaeck (Universiteit Ghent), 
Matthew Boyd (Lakehead University), Todd A. Surovell (University of Wyoming 
at Laramie), Vance T. Holliday,  C. Vance Haynes, Jr. (University of Arizona 
at Tucson)

PNAS Early Edition, December 7, 2009 
www.pnas.org_cgi_doi_10.1073_pnas.0908874106



For more information, visit: 
http://www.soest.hawaii.edu/soest_web/soest.news



Phil Whitmer



From jasonchadwick67 at yahoo.com  Tue Dec  8 14:49:58 2009
From: jasonchadwick67 at yahoo.com (Jason Chadwick)
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 11:49:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Forward Ad: Auctions Ending And Holiday Sale Going
	On!
Message-ID: <334307.60147.qm@web114002.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>


Hello,


Here area great group of auctions with a Holiday Sale at the same time! Enjoy!



SEE ALL AUCTIONS AT ONCE!
http://shop.ebay.com:80/meteorite-collector/m.html?LH_Auction=1&_trksid=p3911.c0.m301




SEE ALL ITEMS ON SALE IN MY STORE!
http://stores.ebay.com/voyage-botanica-natural-history



HIGHLIGHTS:


-MAIN MASS- NWA 2083, CO3, LTKW, 35.57g ONLY SPECIMEN I HAVE OF THIS CARBONACEOUS CHONDRITE- IT IS THE MAIN MASS!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=190353933369

Beautiful Individual of BASSIKOUNOU - 15.60g  A GREAT INDIVIDUAL!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=190353846329

Extremely Rare- NWA 4229, H7, 13.21 gram - SUPER RARE
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=190353790923

Extremely Rare Fall, LANCE, France, CO3.4 !  - Only Piece I have!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=190353806074

(New)-Nice L5 Chondrite-NWA 5027, 256 gram - VERY LARGE SPECIMEN!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200412087338

Superb WAGON MOUND, New Mexico, 82.70 gram- BIG SPECIMEN OF THIS AMERICAN CHONDRITE
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=220518675767

Outstanding Silicated-Campo Del Cielo -169g - MY LAST BIG ONE!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=220518709663

Nice Specimen of NWA 869, L4-6, 146 gram BIG BIG SLICE!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=220518705063

Possible Fall VIEDMA, Argentina, L5, 2.83 g A NICE RARITY!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=220518744362

(VERY NEW) The WEST, Texas Fall, L6, 3.90g - A VERY PRETTY SLICE!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=220518701536

New Fall- TAMDAKHT, H5, 92g, Individual *  VERY HARD TO GET THIS NICE!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=220518686913

Extremely Rare-BONDOC, Philippines, Mes, 46g SO COOL!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=220518658903

NWA 2378, H3.5 Chondrite, CS 144 gram -  HUGE  RARE AND A COMPLETE SLICE!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=220518650198

(NEW) Ungrouped Ataxite, GRIFFITH, TX, 6.05g - Getting Down To My LAST ONES!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=190353819768

New - Low TKW- NWA 4947, Eucrite, 0.91 gram - Very Little Of This To Sell!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200411986930


USE THE ALL AUCTION LINK TO SEE ALL




Of Course there are more auctions than highlighted, Artifacts, Meteorites, Gold, and More Meteorites- Take a Look and I am sure you will find something to bid on!


Thanks and Best Wishes

Michael Cottingham


      



From fujmon at mac.com  Tue Dec  8 15:34:03 2009
From: fujmon at mac.com (Gary Fujihara)
Date: Tue, 08 Dec 2009 10:34:03 -1000
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD-Type 3 slices, endcuts, ebay auctions Saturday
Message-ID: <C6F184E9-4EE4-4834-9225-87CAFD522E56@mac.com>

Aloha listees,

I have a remarkably beautiful unclassified NWA possible L3 or LL3 meteorite that has been cut down into slices and endcuts with a wiresaw and professionally prepared.  I have an assortment from 9.8g up to 106g 10mm thick endcut.  All are available for purchase, and can be seen here: http://astroday.net/meteorites4sale.html

Anything not sold to listees here will be auctioned on ebay over the next few weeks.  

Speaking of ebay, I have an auction ending this Saturday, Dec 12 starting at 8:15 am PST / 1:15 pm Eastern / 5:15 pm London.  Here are some of the many items on the auction block:

D'Orbigny Angrite  0.564g frag - awesome crystals starting at $199
Gujba CBa  4.9g slice One of the best specimens - GONE!
DaG 400 LunA  0.559g slice - Great surface area, starts @ $399
DaG 670 She  1.12g slice - Awesome martian, starts @ $499
NWA 2975 She 0.22g, 0.49g, 1.04g, Martians start @ $99
Benguerir LL6  47.39g 98% FC complete stone, starts at $165
Bassikounou H5  12.49g  99% FC, Beauty, current bid: $6.16
Chergach H5  17.25g 95% FC Grade A stone, now at $21.50
Allende CV3  1.20g fragment Huge CAI, currently at $2.65
Murchison CM2  0.12g, 0.38 Crusted Frags  start at $14.99
Camel Donga Euc  8.57g AAA stone w/ lipping starts at $119
Millbillillie Euc  7.99g Gorgeous flowlines, currently at $69.99
Tatahouine Dio  6.48g frag, ridiculously priced at $7.56
NWA 1877 Oli Dio  2.58g frag, Rare specimen, now at $1.25

... these and quality uNWA stones, uNWA mainmass + slice combo, baby Gao, Bilanga frags, Mundrabilla, Henbury, Canyon Diablo, a half-kilo Mantle Xenolith (olivine bomb), rare limited Apollo 11 Mission 40th Anniversary patch + sticker bundle, and a Galileoscope for IYA can all be seen on my ebay page here:

 http://shop.ebay.com/fujmon/m.html

Remember that you can count on the Big Kahuna to provide you with the highest quality authentic meteorites at the lowest prices on earth.  Malama pono, me kealoha pumehana, a hui hou!

Gary Fujihara
Big Kahuna Meteorites
105 Puhili Place
Hilo, Hawaii 96720
(808) 640-9161



From nwa482 at comcast.net  Tue Dec  8 15:40:08 2009
From: nwa482 at comcast.net (Jim Strope)
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 20:40:08 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Scalecubes.com
Message-ID: <1095417691.13877911260304808169.JavaMail.root@sz0057a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>

I just got my two scale cubes today.  If you let these sell out, I assure you that you will regret it.   Very well made.

I got #69  LOL

Jim Strope 
421 Fourth Street 
Glen Dale, WV ?26038 

http://www.catchafallingstar.com/ 
 

On Dec 7, 2009, at 7:15 PM, STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com wrote: 


> Also, I just ordered my centimeter cube from Jeff 

> http://www.scalecubes.com/about.html If you haven't ordered yours already then mine will be a lower number than yours! How will you sleep with that? 


From Midwest at Meteorman.org  Tue Dec  8 18:41:53 2009
From: Midwest at Meteorman.org (Timothy  Heitz)
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 17:41:53 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Meteorite Pendant Neckless ( Christmas Gift )
References: <1095417691.13877911260304808169.JavaMail.root@sz0057a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <F7AB26E0862A4631A600AA899CBCF161@den>

Hello List,

I have some Meteorite Pendants on E-Bay  onl;y $23.99 free shipping in the 
U.S.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260520590810


Thank You,
Tim Heitz

MIDWEST METEORITES - http://www.meteorman.org/



From pgspears at cox.net  Tue Dec  8 19:16:14 2009
From: pgspears at cox.net (Paul  G. Spears)
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 17:16:14 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Polishing small slices/pieces on Swap Top laps
Message-ID: <2440D51252FD416DBEE222F8BE589474@GrandpasNetbook>

Does anyone have a solution for grinding small slices and pieces on the 
Inland Swap Top flat lap machine?  Small slices/pieces will slide off the 
lap, especially at the v-shaped part.  There must be a way to keep them on 
the lap when they reach that part of the machine.  Any suggestions?

Merry Christmas, one and all!

Paul G. Spears
IMCA #3272 



From whitefalcons007 at yahoo.com  Tue Dec  8 20:10:27 2009
From: whitefalcons007 at yahoo.com (Dave Myers)
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 17:10:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] meteor over butler county Ohio
Message-ID: <366955.49132.qm@web110102.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Hi List,

While hunting at my cousin's farm last week, as always, I spend 30 min.
drinking coffee watching the stars before i head to my tree stand!

When a bright white meteor went striking through the sky that went from
north-west to south-east,(IT WAS NOT A FIRE BALL|) just a bright white meteor that when it burnt out, south east of me a bright red ball gloed
for 3 sec. what looked like 50 feet from where it burnt out. ( but may have been miles in space) (no tail) then went out then glowed again as have bright red  for 1 second then never never glowed again!

I bet this single object hit the ground some whare in the area!
Only one object glowed red after the bright white metor went out. 
So I am sure there is no more than one object out there!
This is one of my top 5 meteor sighting!
Has anyone on here seen anything like that!

Dave Myers 



      



From fujmon at mac.com  Tue Dec  8 20:34:06 2009
From: fujmon at mac.com (Gary Fujihara)
Date: Tue, 08 Dec 2009 15:34:06 -1000
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD-Type 3 slices, endcuts, ebay auctions Saturday
Message-ID: <41CF7974-6B5A-4EFC-AC00-1F669ECB8025@mac.com>

Aloha listees,

*** UPDATE ***
I am offering these slices and endcuts for $5/g.  I'll be classifying other type 3 material soon, but they will be priced higher.  Here is your chance to get some quality unequilibrated material at a good price.  BUT WAIT THERES MORE!  Listees will be offered a 10% discount, FREE shipping and a labeled membranebox for protection and years of viewing pleasure at no extra cost.  Gotta hurry though, this stuff won't last.
*** UPDATE ***

I have a remarkably beautiful unclassified NWA possible L3 or LL3 meteorite that has been cut down into slices and endcuts and professionally prepared.  I have an assortment from 9.8g up to 106g 10mm thick endcut.  All are available for purchase, and can be seen here: http://astroday.net/meteorites4sale.html

Anything not sold to listees here will be auctioned on ebay over the next few weeks.  

Speaking of ebay, I have an auction ending this Saturday, Dec 12 starting at 8:15 am PST / 1:15 pm Eastern / 5:15 pm London.  Here are some of the many items on the auction block:

D'Orbigny Angrite  0.564g frag - awesome crystals starting at $199
Gujba CBa  4.9g slice One of the best specimens - GONE!
DaG 400 LunA  0.559g slice - Great surface area, starts @ $399
DaG 670 She  1.12g slice - Awesome martian, starts @ $499
NWA 2975 She 0.22g, 0.49g, 1.04g, Martians start @ $99
Benguerir LL6  47.39g 98% FC complete stone, starts at $165
Bassikounou H5  12.49g  99% FC, Beauty, current bid: $6.16
Chergach H5  17.25g 95% FC Grade A stone, now at $21.50
Allende CV3  1.20g fragment Huge CAI, currently at $2.65
Murchison CM2  0.12g, 0.38 Crusted Frags  start at $14.99
Camel Donga Euc  8.57g AAA stone w/ lipping starts at $119
Millbillillie Euc  7.99g Gorgeous flowlines, currently at $69.99
Tatahouine Dio  6.48g frag, ridiculously priced at $7.56
NWA 1877 Oli Dio  2.58g frag, Rare specimen, now at $1.25

... these and quality uNWA stones, uNWA mainmass + slice combo, baby Gao, Bilanga frags, Mundrabilla, Henbury, Canyon Diablo, a half-kilo Mantle Xenolith (olivine bomb), rare limited Apollo 11 Mission 40th Anniversary patch + sticker bundle, and a Galileoscope for IYA can all be seen on my ebay page here:

http://shop.ebay.com/fujmon/m.html

Remember that you can count on the Big Kahuna to provide you with the highest quality authentic meteorites at the lowest prices on earth.  Malama pono, me kealoha pumehana, a hui hou!

Gary Fujihara
Big Kahuna Meteorites
105 Puhili Place
Hilo, Hawaii 96720
(808) 640-9161


From mrmeteorite at gmail.com  Tue Dec  8 22:37:18 2009
From: mrmeteorite at gmail.com (Ruben Garcia)
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 20:37:18 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite hits and Kills Man
Message-ID: <80659e1a0912081937r3e6edbaav4c49764c19256747@mail.gmail.com>

It must be true Spike TV wouldn't lie.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfT5onJJrgk
-- 
Rock On!

Ruben Garcia

Website: http://www.mr-meteorite.net
Articles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/
Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=meteorfright#p/u


From stanleygregr at hotmail.com  Tue Dec  8 22:50:00 2009
From: stanleygregr at hotmail.com (Greg Stanley)
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 19:50:00 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite hits and Kills Man
In-Reply-To: <80659e1a0912081937r3e6edbaav4c49764c19256747@mail.gmail.com>
References: <80659e1a0912081937r3e6edbaav4c49764c19256747@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SNT117-W10CB02ECBE0C65FEEB9349D28E0@phx.gbl>


Now... That's a hammer!

Nice graphics.

Greg S.

----------------------------------------
> Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 20:37:18 -0700
> From: mrmeteorite at gmail.com
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite hits and Kills Man
>
> It must be true Spike TV wouldn't lie.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfT5onJJrgk
> --
> Rock On!
>
> Ruben Garcia
>
> Website: http://www.mr-meteorite.net
> Articles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/
> Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=meteorfright#p/u
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Windows 7: Unclutter your desktop. Learn more.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windows-7/videos-tours.aspx?h=7sec&slideid=1&media=aero-shake-7second&listid=1&stop=1&ocid=PID24727::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WWL_WIN_7secdemo:122009

From damoclid at yahoo.com  Tue Dec  8 22:56:06 2009
From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski)
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 19:56:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite hits and Kills Man
In-Reply-To: <80659e1a0912081937r3e6edbaav4c49764c19256747@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <610105.89051.qm@web33902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Yep,
like they said, he was dead meat-eorite

Thanks for the laugh

--
Richard Kowalski
http://fullmoonphotography.net
IMCA #1081


--- On Tue, 12/8/09, Ruben Garcia <mrmeteorite at gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Ruben Garcia <mrmeteorite at gmail.com>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite hits and Kills Man
> To: "Meteorite List" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Date: Tuesday, December 8, 2009, 8:37 PM
> It must be true Spike TV wouldn't
> lie.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfT5onJJrgk
> -- 
> Rock On!
> 
> Ruben Garcia
> 
> Website: http://www.mr-meteorite.net
> Articles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/
> Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=meteorfright#p/u
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      


From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com  Tue Dec  8 23:20:02 2009
From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold)
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 20:20:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] (ad) 3 more meteorites for sale
Message-ID: <462288.26207.qm@web57805.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Hi again list.Just wanted to throw this out there.I have added 3 more meteorites for sale.They are a 15 gram endcut of PUTINGA,a witness fall.Also a .277 gram part- slice of ban cho lae.It is from thailand,one of 4 meteorites from there.And finally a .78 gram part-slice of NWA 047. A eucrite.The ban piece has some fusion crust and is 12 mm x 7 mm?in size. PUTINGA?? $250 with a smf card, BAN CHO LAE,? $100 WITH JACK SCHRADER CARD, and NWA 047 $50.00.Pics of all of them.
?Steve R. Arnold, Chicago!! 


From lintonius at earthlink.net  Wed Dec  9 00:46:20 2009
From: lintonius at earthlink.net (Linton Rohr)
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 21:46:20 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite hits and Kills Man
References: <80659e1a0912081937r3e6edbaav4c49764c19256747@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BE74471AA12243E3BA5C4665A5FE8317@D190TH71>

Dude...that smoke ring was like totally rad!
Woodland Hills? That's my turf. Those must be my neighbors!
I missed that fireball, but there must be a strewnfield around here. <g>
Linton

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ruben Garcia" <mrmeteorite at gmail.com>
To: "Meteorite List" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 7:37 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite hits and Kills Man


> It must be true Spike TV wouldn't lie.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfT5onJJrgk
> -- 
> Rock On!
> 
> Ruben Garcia
> 
> Website: http://www.mr-meteorite.net
> Articles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/
> Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=meteorfright#p/u
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


From michael at rocksfromspace.org  Wed Dec  9 00:49:24 2009
From: michael at rocksfromspace.org (Michael Johnson)
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 21:49:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December 9,
	2009
Message-ID: <595770832.90881260337764765.JavaMail.root@mbs1.homesteadmail.com>

http://www.rocksfromspace.org/December_9_2009.html



From fujmon at mac.com  Wed Dec  9 00:59:07 2009
From: fujmon at mac.com (Gary Fujihara)
Date: Tue, 08 Dec 2009 19:59:07 -1000
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December
	9, 2009
In-Reply-To: <595770832.90881260337764765.JavaMail.root@mbs1.homesteadmail.com>
References: <595770832.90881260337764765.JavaMail.root@mbs1.homesteadmail.com>
Message-ID: <0FB620EF-4899-4A22-A1F6-D57D456CB9CB@mac.com>

Cool meteorite Jason!  Congrats on the find ... and tomorrow's RFSPoD!

gary

On Dec 8, 2009, at 7:49 PM, Michael Johnson wrote:

> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/December_9_2009.html
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

Gary Fujihara
Big Kahuna Meteorites
105 Puhili Place
Hilo, Hawaii 96720
(808) 640-9161



From damoclid at yahoo.com  Wed Dec  9 01:06:36 2009
From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski)
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 22:06:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December
	9, 2009
In-Reply-To: <595770832.90881260337764765.JavaMail.root@mbs1.homesteadmail.com>
Message-ID: <331722.23938.qm@web33905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Very cool. Congrats on the find. Love the self portrait. THAT is a great meteorite image!

Nicely done.

--
Richard Kowalski
http://fullmoonphotography.net
IMCA #1081


--- On Tue, 12/8/09, Michael Johnson <michael at rocksfromspace.org> wrote:

> From: Michael Johnson <michael at rocksfromspace.org>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December 9, 2009
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Tuesday, December 8, 2009, 10:49 PM
> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/December_9_2009.html
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      


From darryl at dof3.com  Wed Dec  9 03:15:49 2009
From: darryl at dof3.com (Darryl Pitt)
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 03:15:49 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] LOVINA REVISITED
Message-ID: <0B95F6D1-9CC8-4C67-A877-3082AA835FE6@dof3.com>


Well, I had an interesting day today....

This morning I met with Roy Clarke, Linda Welzenbach, Cari Corrigan,  
Glen MacPherson, and Tim McCoy at the Smithsonian.   During our get- 
together Tim made several observations as to why Lovina could very  
well not be what it has been made out to be---which is to say, a  
meteorite---and why more work must be done.

In Tim's words....

1)   The sulfides are not simply troilite and appear optically to be  
multiple phases, including one that looks like the Ni-rich sulfide  
pentlandite.

2)  Although the presence of the octahedrons has been attributed to  
weathering, the structure of the remainder of the meteorite shows fine  
stringers of sulfide, not large areas that would easily weather out  
leaving such octahedron.

3)  On one polished slice, the sulfides clearly wrap around one of the  
indentations, rather than the cross-cutting relationship one might  
expect from a significantly weathered iron meteorite.

4)  The composition given - high Ni coupled with moderately high Ga  
and Ge - is difficult to reconcile with a meteorite composition.    
Iron meteorites acquire high Ni concentrations through 1 of 3  
mechanisms.  Oxidation simply changes iron to FeO, leaving Ni behind.   
This can produce high-Ni irons with modest Ga and Ge. Nebular  
condensation can also produce high-Ni iron which then melts to form  
cores in which high-Ni iron meteorites form.  This process, however,  
occurs at high temperature where the volatile elements Ga and Ge are  
depleted.  Finally, you can produce high Ni through fractional  
crystallization.  Ni prefers the solid phase when a core crystallizes,  
so early irons are low in Ni and later crystallizing ones are high in  
Ni.  However, Ga and Ge behave opposite of Ni, so low Ni irons are  
high in Ga and Ge and high Ni irons are low and Ga and Ge.   The  
published Ga and Ge values are at least a factor of 15 higher than  
reported for similar iron meteorites.

5)  The holes exposed in the center of the specimen are not the shape  
one would expect of weathering, but seem circular.  Circular vugs are  
commonly produced in slags when gases try to escape.

There was more...including the fact that Indonesia is a nickel-rich  
locality as well as Tim's conclusion that Lovina was most likely a  
highly weathered example of a smelted Ni-rich sulfide.

Sales have been suspended and monies are in the process of being  
returned.  Further testing will be done to confirm Lovina's place of  
origin and the results will be posted to the list by mid-January.

I think I'll go see the new Clooney film "Up In The Air."   Ohhh---and  
might anyone want an inexpensive 13 kg specimen of Willamette for  
Christmas?!


And how was your day?   ;-)




From meteoritekid at gmail.com  Wed Dec  9 04:40:05 2009
From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas)
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 01:40:05 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December
	9, 2009
In-Reply-To: <331722.23938.qm@web33905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <595770832.90881260337764765.JavaMail.root@mbs1.homesteadmail.com>
	<331722.23938.qm@web33905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <93aaac890912090140x6eb98689s4daa5dee32430aa9@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Richard, Gary, All,

Thanks!  I had four short days at home for Thanksgiving break, so we
planned accordingly, leaving the family dinner at a reasonable hour so
we could spend the Friday out in the desert.  I didn't get a wink
sleep that night for some reason, but still wasn't too tired the next
day.  It was one of the finest hunting days I can recall, with
temperatures at about freezing in the morning, but by noon, upwards of
70F.  Peter and I each walked easily twenty miles as we didn't once
take a break - and drove very little throughout the course of the day.

It should be noted - that's a photo of Peter.  The slightly odd thing
about our find photos is that I'm almost exclusively pictured in the
real-film photos and Peter's just about the only person in the digital
photos, because his camera uses film and mine is digital.  My personal
favorite is this one:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/cameteoritefinder/2573329463/

- I snagged a photo of him taking a picture of me, but the focus...it
turned out better than I could have hoped.
At any rate, thank you for the kind feedback.  I've been trying to do
what I can with the point and shoot cameras and typically fairly drab
in-situ photos.
Thanks Again,
Jason

On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 10:06 PM, Richard Kowalski <damoclid at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Very cool. Congrats on the find. Love the self portrait. THAT is a great meteorite image!
>
> Nicely done.
>
> --
> Richard Kowalski
> http://fullmoonphotography.net
> IMCA #1081
>
>
> --- On Tue, 12/8/09, Michael Johnson <michael at rocksfromspace.org> wrote:
>
>> From: Michael Johnson <michael at rocksfromspace.org>
>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December 9, 2009
>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Date: Tuesday, December 8, 2009, 10:49 PM
>> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/December_9_2009.html
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


From mstreman53 at yahoo.com  Wed Dec  9 05:42:19 2009
From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (MEM)
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 02:42:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Thin Section "How-To" on Ebay<--Thumbs Down
In-Reply-To: <2E92EA73-FDC5-43B0-A7C0-AEB140E76399@mac.com>
Message-ID: <418359.87190.qm@web55203.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

UPDATE:  This prining hasn't been updated since first written and I give it both thumbs down.  I am now mounting my return attempt. I cannot recommend it even for fire starting. There were no photos period and especially "acid trip" colored ones.

This addresses nothing of the advances in technology over the past 100 years.

Looks like one of those books which the copyright was expired:someone scanned the book and ran off a batch and put them on Ebay.

Thanks Gary for your other recommendations.
Elton

--- On Sat, 11/28/09, Gary Fujihara <fujmon at mac.com> wrote:

> From: Gary Fujihara <fujmon at mac.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Thin Section "How-To" on Ebay
> To: "MEM" <mstreman53 at yahoo.com>
> Cc: "metlist" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Date: Saturday, November 28, 2009, 3:15 AM
> Aloha Elton,
> 
> Thanks for the heads up on the book, which was originally
> published in 1911.? A search on Amazon.com has revealed
> additional tomes on the subject, which are listed here:
> 
> Elements of Optical Mineralogy - An Introduction to
> Microscopic Petrography, Alexander Winchell, Bronson Press,
> March 2007, 256 pgs, $28.95
> http://www.amazon.com/Elements-Optical-Mineralogy-Introduction-Microscopic/dp/140670055X/ref=pd_sim_b_1
> 
> Introduction to Optical Mineralogy, 3rd Edition & An
> Atlas of Minerals in Thin Section: Book & CD Pack
> (Hardcover), William D. Nesse, Oxford University Press, Feb
> 2004, 370 pgs, $113
> http://www.amazon.com/Introduction-Optical-Mineralogy-Minerals-Section/dp/019522132X/ref=pd_sim_b_4
> 
> Optical Mineralogy: Principals and Practice (paperback),
> Colin D Gribble, CRC, Sep 1993, 320 pgs, $56.31
> http://www.amazon.com/Optical-Mineralogy-Principles-Colin-Gribble/dp/1857280148/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1259394407&sr=1-4
> 
> A Color Atlas of Rocks and Minerals in Thin Section
> (paperback), W. S. MacKenzie, Wiley, March 1994, 192 pgs,
> $56.78
> http://www.amazon.com/Color-Atlas-Rocks-Minerals-Section/dp/0470233389/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1259394588&sr=1-6
> 
> Minerals in Thin Section 2nd Edition (spiral-bound), Dexter
> Perkins, Prentice Hall, June 2003, 176 pgs, $51.13
> http://www.amazon.com/Minerals-Thin-Section-Dexter-Perkins/dp/0131420151/ref=pd_sim_b_1
> 
> Interesting subject ... just what I need, more books,
> petrographic microscope, thin sections, $$$, ...
> 
> gary
> 
> On Nov 27, 2009, at 4:29 PM, MEM wrote:
> 
> > For all the aspiring "thin section-ographers" and for
> those who just like the acid pictures...
> > 
> > "Introduction to Optical Mineralogy and Petrography -
> The Practical Methods of Identifying Minerals in Thin
> Section with the Microscope and the Princip - Edwards, M.
> G." 



From majbaermann at web.de  Wed Dec  9 06:20:25 2009
From: majbaermann at web.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Matthias_B=E4rmann?=)
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 12:20:25 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] LOVINA REVISITED
References: <0B95F6D1-9CC8-4C67-A877-3082AA835FE6@dof3.com>
Message-ID: <DA4243CE17E1404FA5E2EF36050F52A6@thinkcentre>

Hello Darryl,

gosh, so you've to arrange yourself with the fact that perhaps you only have 
a part of the spaceship which tried to escape from the sinking Atlantis 
instead of a meteorite. In any case: it still looks fantastic.

Best regards,

Matthias

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Darryl Pitt" <darryl at dof3.com>
To: "Adam List" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 9:15 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] LOVINA REVISITED


>
> Well, I had an interesting day today....
>
> This morning I met with Roy Clarke, Linda Welzenbach, Cari Corrigan,  Glen 
> MacPherson, and Tim McCoy at the Smithsonian.   During our get- together 
> Tim made several observations as to why Lovina could very  well not be 
> what it has been made out to be---which is to say, a  meteorite---and why 
> more work must be done.
>
> In Tim's words....
>
> 1)   The sulfides are not simply troilite and appear optically to be 
> multiple phases, including one that looks like the Ni-rich sulfide 
> pentlandite.
>
> 2)  Although the presence of the octahedrons has been attributed to 
> weathering, the structure of the remainder of the meteorite shows fine 
> stringers of sulfide, not large areas that would easily weather out 
> leaving such octahedron.
>
> 3)  On one polished slice, the sulfides clearly wrap around one of the 
> indentations, rather than the cross-cutting relationship one might  expect 
> from a significantly weathered iron meteorite.
>
> 4)  The composition given - high Ni coupled with moderately high Ga  and 
> Ge - is difficult to reconcile with a meteorite composition.    Iron 
> meteorites acquire high Ni concentrations through 1 of 3  mechanisms. 
> Oxidation simply changes iron to FeO, leaving Ni behind.   This can 
> produce high-Ni irons with modest Ga and Ge. Nebular  condensation can 
> also produce high-Ni iron which then melts to form  cores in which high-Ni 
> iron meteorites form.  This process, however,  occurs at high temperature 
> where the volatile elements Ga and Ge are  depleted.  Finally, you can 
> produce high Ni through fractional  crystallization.  Ni prefers the solid 
> phase when a core crystallizes,  so early irons are low in Ni and later 
> crystallizing ones are high in  Ni.  However, Ga and Ge behave opposite of 
> Ni, so low Ni irons are  high in Ga and Ge and high Ni irons are low and 
> Ga and Ge.   The  published Ga and Ge values are at least a factor of 15 
> higher than  reported for similar iron meteorites.
>
> 5)  The holes exposed in the center of the specimen are not the shape  one 
> would expect of weathering, but seem circular.  Circular vugs are 
> commonly produced in slags when gases try to escape.
>
> There was more...including the fact that Indonesia is a nickel-rich 
> locality as well as Tim's conclusion that Lovina was most likely a  highly 
> weathered example of a smelted Ni-rich sulfide.
>
> Sales have been suspended and monies are in the process of being 
> returned.  Further testing will be done to confirm Lovina's place of 
> origin and the results will be posted to the list by mid-January.
>
> I think I'll go see the new Clooney film "Up In The Air."   Ohhh---and 
> might anyone want an inexpensive 13 kg specimen of Willamette for 
> Christmas?!
>
>
> And how was your day?   ;-)
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From info at niger-meteorite-recon.de  Wed Dec  9 07:08:43 2009
From: info at niger-meteorite-recon.de (info at niger-meteorite-recon.de)
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 13:08:43 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [meteorite-list] LOVINA REVISITED
Message-ID: <319610027.177835.1260360523963.JavaMail.open-xchange@oxltgw03.schlund.de>

Thank you for the new evaluation Darryl.

Although this is a regrettable development one must not forget that you took
the initial risk of acquiring such exotic material, which alone is a
remarkable?achievement. I very much hope that?this experience does not
discourage you to venture similar acquisitions in the future. If it wasn't for
people like you, most meteorites of similar caliber would never see the light of
public. Set backs are a natural part of this business and there are very few
dealers who would not subscribe to that.

Svend



? ?

Darryl Pitt <darryl at dof3.com> hat am 9. Dezember 2009 um 09:15 geschrieben:

> 
> Well, I had an interesting day today....
> 
> This morning I met with Roy Clarke, Linda Welzenbach, Cari Corrigan,? 
> Glen MacPherson, and Tim McCoy at the Smithsonian.? ?During our get- 
> together Tim made several observations as to why Lovina could very? 
> well not be what it has been made out to be---which is to say, a? 
> meteorite---and why more work must be done.
> 
> In Tim's words....
> 
> 1)? ?The sulfides are not simply troilite and appear optically to be? 
> multiple phases, including one that looks like the Ni-rich sulfide? 
> pentlandite.
> 
> 2)? Although the presence of the octahedrons has been attributed to? 
> weathering, the structure of the remainder of the meteorite shows fine? 
> stringers of sulfide, not large areas that would easily weather out? 
> leaving such octahedron.
> 
> 3)? On one polished slice, the sulfides clearly wrap around one of the? 
> indentations, rather than the cross-cutting relationship one might? 
> expect from a significantly weathered iron meteorite.
> 
> 4)? The composition given - high Ni coupled with moderately high Ga? 
> and Ge - is difficult to reconcile with a meteorite composition.? ? 
> Iron meteorites acquire high Ni concentrations through 1 of 3? 
> mechanisms.? Oxidation simply changes iron to FeO, leaving Ni behind.? ?
> This can produce high-Ni irons with modest Ga and Ge. Nebular? 
> condensation can also produce high-Ni iron which then melts to form? 
> cores in which high-Ni iron meteorites form.? This process, however,? 
> occurs at high temperature where the volatile elements Ga and Ge are? 
> depleted.? Finally, you can produce high Ni through fractional? 
> crystallization.? Ni prefers the solid phase when a core crystallizes,? 
> so early irons are low in Ni and later crystallizing ones are high in? 
> Ni.? However, Ga and Ge behave opposite of Ni, so low Ni irons are? 
> high in Ga and Ge and high Ni irons are low and Ga and Ge.? ?The? 
> published Ga and Ge values are at least a factor of 15 higher than? 
> reported for similar iron meteorites.
> 
> 5)? The holes exposed in the center of the specimen are not the shape? 
> one would expect of weathering, but seem circular.? Circular vugs are? 
> commonly produced in slags when gases try to escape.
> 
> There was more...including the fact that Indonesia is a nickel-rich? 
> locality as well as Tim's conclusion that Lovina was most likely a? 
> highly weathered example of a smelted Ni-rich sulfide.
> 
> Sales have been suspended and monies are in the process of being? 
> returned.? Further testing will be done to confirm Lovina's place of? 
> origin and the results will be posted to the list by mid-January.
> 
> I think I'll go see the new Clooney film "Up In The Air."? ?Ohhh---and? 
> might anyone want an inexpensive 13 kg specimen of Willamette for? 
> Christmas?!
> 
> 
> And how was your day?? ?;-)
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


From mpg4444 at gmail.com  Wed Dec  9 08:30:49 2009
From: mpg4444 at gmail.com (Michael Groetz)
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 08:30:49 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Life on Mars theory boosted by new methane study
Message-ID: <ad733150912090530n3f406b72mb65511e269b82644@mail.gmail.com>

http://www.physorg.com/news179499648.html

Life on Mars theory boosted by new methane study

Scientists have ruled out the possibility that methane is delivered to
Mars by meteorites, raising fresh hopes that the gas might be
generated by life on the red planet, in research published tomorrow in
Earth and Planetary Science Letters.

Methane has a short lifetime of just a few hundred years on Mars
because it is constantly being depleted by a chemical reaction in the
planet's atmosphere, caused by sunlight. Scientists analysing data
from telescopic observations and unmanned space missions have
discovered that methane on Mars is being constantly replenished by an
unknown source and they are keen to uncover how the levels of methane
are being topped up.

Researchers had thought that meteorites might be responsible for
Martian methane levels because when the rocks enter the planet's
atmosphere they are subjected to intense heat, causing a chemical
reaction that releases methane and other gases into the atmosphere.

However, the new study, by researchers from Imperial College London,
shows that the volumes of methane that could be released by the
meteorites entering Mars's atmosphere are too low to maintain the
current atmospheric levels of methane. Previous studies have also
ruled out the possibility that the methane is delivered through
volcanic activity.

This leaves only two plausible theories to explain the gas's presence,
according to the researchers behind today's findings. Either there are
microorganisms living in the Martian soil that are producing methane
gas as a by-product of their metabolic processes, or methane is being
produced as a by-product of reactions between volcanic rock and water.

Co-author of the study, Dr Richard Court, Department of Earth Science
and Engineering at Imperial College London, says:
"Our experiments are helping to solve the mystery of methane on Mars.
Meteorites vaporising in the atmosphere are a proposed methane source
but when we recreate their fiery entry in the laboratory we get only
small amounts of the gas. For Mars, meteorites fail the methane test."

The team say their study will help NASA and ESA scientists who are
planning a joint mission to the red planet in 2018 to search for the
source of methane. The researchers say now that they have discovered
that meteorites are not a source of Methane on Mars, ESA and NASA
scientists can focus their attention on the two last remaining
options.


From darryl at dof3.com  Wed Dec  9 09:32:22 2009
From: darryl at dof3.com (Darryl Pitt)
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 09:32:22 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] LOVINA REVISITED
In-Reply-To: <319610027.177835.1260360523963.JavaMail.open-xchange@oxltgw03.schlund.de>
References: <319610027.177835.1260360523963.JavaMail.open-xchange@oxltgw03.schlund.de>
Message-ID: <D8E2EC73-AC04-4487-9CD6-5DE3FB2D3928@dof3.com>



Thanks for your kind words, Svend, but you're giving me far more  
credit than I deserve.  I did not shepherd Lovina through the  
certification process.  My acquisition simply would not have occurred  
had Lovina not been previously certified as a meteorite.

Please see the relevant article in Lunar and Planetary Science:  http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2008/pdf/2412.pdf




On Dec 9, 2009, at 7:08 AM, info at niger-meteorite-recon.de wrote:

> Thank you for the new evaluation Darryl.
>
> Although this is a regrettable development one must not forget that  
> you took
> the initial risk of acquiring such exotic material, which alone is a
> remarkable achievement. I very much hope that this experience does not
> discourage you to venture similar acquisitions in the future. If it  
> wasn't for
> people like you, most meteorites of similar caliber would never see  
> the light of
> public. Set backs are a natural part of this business and there are  
> very few
> dealers who would not subscribe to that.
>
> Svend
>
>
>
>
>
> Darryl Pitt <darryl at dof3.com> hat am 9. Dezember 2009 um 09:15  
> geschrieben:
>
>>
>> Well, I had an interesting day today....
>>
>> This morning I met with Roy Clarke, Linda Welzenbach, Cari Corrigan,
>> Glen MacPherson, and Tim McCoy at the Smithsonian.   During our get-
>> together Tim made several observations as to why Lovina could very
>> well not be what it has been made out to be---which is to say, a
>> meteorite---and why more work must be done.
>>
>> In Tim's words....
>>
>> 1)   The sulfides are not simply troilite and appear optically to be
>> multiple phases, including one that looks like the Ni-rich sulfide
>> pentlandite.
>>
>> 2)  Although the presence of the octahedrons has been attributed to
>> weathering, the structure of the remainder of the meteorite shows  
>> fine
>> stringers of sulfide, not large areas that would easily weather out
>> leaving such octahedron.
>>
>> 3)  On one polished slice, the sulfides clearly wrap around one of  
>> the
>> indentations, rather than the cross-cutting relationship one might
>> expect from a significantly weathered iron meteorite.
>>
>> 4)  The composition given - high Ni coupled with moderately high Ga
>> and Ge - is difficult to reconcile with a meteorite composition.
>> Iron meteorites acquire high Ni concentrations through 1 of 3
>> mechanisms.  Oxidation simply changes iron to FeO, leaving Ni behind.
>> This can produce high-Ni irons with modest Ga and Ge. Nebular
>> condensation can also produce high-Ni iron which then melts to form
>> cores in which high-Ni iron meteorites form.  This process, however,
>> occurs at high temperature where the volatile elements Ga and Ge are
>> depleted.  Finally, you can produce high Ni through fractional
>> crystallization.  Ni prefers the solid phase when a core  
>> crystallizes,
>> so early irons are low in Ni and later crystallizing ones are high in
>> Ni.  However, Ga and Ge behave opposite of Ni, so low Ni irons are
>> high in Ga and Ge and high Ni irons are low and Ga and Ge.   The
>> published Ga and Ge values are at least a factor of 15 higher than
>> reported for similar iron meteorites.
>>
>> 5)  The holes exposed in the center of the specimen are not the shape
>> one would expect of weathering, but seem circular.  Circular vugs are
>> commonly produced in slags when gases try to escape.
>>
>> There was more...including the fact that Indonesia is a nickel-rich
>> locality as well as Tim's conclusion that Lovina was most likely a
>> highly weathered example of a smelted Ni-rich sulfide.
>>
>> Sales have been suspended and monies are in the process of being
>> returned.  Further testing will be done to confirm Lovina's place of
>> origin and the results will be posted to the list by mid-January.
>>
>> I think I'll go see the new Clooney film "Up In The Air."   Ohhh--- 
>> and
>> might anyone want an inexpensive 13 kg specimen of Willamette for
>> Christmas?!
>>
>>
>> And how was your day?   ;-)
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From mikewren at gilanet.com  Tue Dec  8 13:53:35 2009
From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham)
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 11:53:35 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Auctions End On Weds/9th & STORE WIDE HOLIDAY
	SALE! Many Highlights Added!
Message-ID: <106D0790-A246-4CD6-8BA9-F88A26C545AB@gilanet.com>


Hello,


Here area great group of auctions with a Holiday Sale at the same  
time! Enjoy!



SEE ALL AUCTIONS AT ONCE!
http://shop.ebay.com:80/meteorite-collector/m.html?LH_Auction=1&_trksid=p3911.c0.m301




SEE ALL ITEMS ON SALE IN MY STORE!
http://stores.ebay.com/voyage-botanica-natural-history



HIGHLIGHTS:


-MAIN MASS- NWA 2083, CO3, LTKW, 35.57g ONLY SPECIMEN I HAVE OF THIS  
CARBONACEOUS CHONDRITE- IT IS THE MAIN MASS!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=190353933369

Beautiful Individual of BASSIKOUNOU - 15.60g  A GREAT INDIVIDUAL!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=190353846329

Extremely Rare- NWA 4229, H7, 13.21 gram - SUPER RARE
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=190353790923

Extremely Rare Fall, LANCE, France, CO3.4 !  - Only Piece I have!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=190353806074

(New)-Nice L5 Chondrite-NWA 5027, 256 gram - VERY LARGE SPECIMEN!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200412087338

Superb WAGON MOUND, New Mexico, 82.70 gram- BIG SPECIMEN OF THIS  
AMERICAN CHONDRITE
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=220518675767

Outstanding Silicated-Campo Del Cielo -169g - MY LAST BIG ONE!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=220518709663

Nice Specimen of NWA 869, L4-6, 146 gram BIG BIG SLICE!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=220518705063

Possible Fall VIEDMA, Argentina, L5, 2.83 g A NICE RARITY!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=220518744362

(VERY NEW) The WEST, Texas Fall, L6, 3.90g - A VERY PRETTY SLICE!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=220518701536

New Fall- TAMDAKHT, H5, 92g, Individual *  VERY HARD TO GET THIS NICE!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=220518686913

Extremely Rare-BONDOC, Philippines, Mes, 46g SO COOL!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=220518658903

NWA 2378, H3.5 Chondrite, CS 144 gram -  HUGE  RARE AND A COMPLETE  
SLICE!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=220518650198

(NEW) Ungrouped Ataxite, GRIFFITH, TX, 6.05g - Getting Down To My LAST  
ONES!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=190353819768

New - Low TKW- NWA 4947, Eucrite, 0.91 gram - Very Little Of This To  
Sell!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200411986930


USE THE ALL AUCTION LINK TO SEE ALL




Of Course there are more auctions than highlighted, Artifacts,  
Meteorites, Gold, and More Meteorites- Take a Look and I am sure you  
will find something to bid on!


Thanks and Best Wishes

Michael Cottingham


From wahlperry at aol.com  Wed Dec  9 10:02:13 2009
From: wahlperry at aol.com (wahlperry at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 09 Dec 2009 10:02:13 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December
	9, 2009
In-Reply-To: <93aaac890912090140x6eb98689s4daa5dee32430aa9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <595770832.90881260337764765.JavaMail.root@mbs1.homesteadmail.com><331722.23938.qm@web33905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<93aaac890912090140x6eb98689s4daa5dee32430aa9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8CC46F7B7D0E79B-60E0-1362C@webmail-m043.sysops.aol.com>

Hi Jason,

Awesome picture!

Sonny


-----Original Message-----
From: Jason Utas <meteoritekid at gmail.com>
To: Richard Kowalski <damoclid at yahoo.com>
Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Wed, Dec 9, 2009 1:40 am
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - 
December 9, 2009


Hello Richard, Gary, All,Thanks!  I had four short days at home for 
Thanksgiving break, so weplanned accordingly, leaving the family dinner 
at a reasonable hour sowe could spend the Friday out in the desert.  I 
didn't get a winksleep that night for some reason, but still wasn't too 
tired the nextday.  It was one of the finest hunting days I can recall, 
withtemperatures at about freezing in the morning, but by noon, upwards 
of70F.  Peter and I each walked easily twenty miles as we didn't 
oncetake a break - and drove very little throughout the course of the 
day.It should be noted - that's a photo of Peter.  The slightly odd 
thingabout our find photos is that I'm almost exclusively pictured in 
thereal-film photos and Peter's just about the only person in the 
digitalphotos, because his camera uses film and mine is digital.  My 
personalfavorite is this 
one:http://www.flickr.com/photos/cameteoritefinder/2573329463/- I 
snagged a photo of him taking a picture of me, but the focus...itturned 
out better than I could have hoped.At any rate, thank you for the kind 
feedback.  I've been trying to dowhat I can with the point and shoot 
cameras and typically fairly drabin-situ photos.Thanks Again,JasonOn 
Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 10:06 PM, Richard Kowalski <damoclid at yahoo.com> 
wrote:> Very cool. Congrats on the find. Love the self portrait. THAT 
is a great meteorite image!>> Nicely done.>> --> Richard Kowalski> 
http://fullmoonphotography.net> IMCA #1081>>> --- On Tue, 12/8/09, 
Michael Johnson <michael at rocksfromspace.org> wrote:>>> From: Michael 
Johnson <michael at rocksfromspace.org>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks 
 from Space Picture of the Day - December 9, 2009>> To: 
meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>> Date: Tuesday, December 8, 2009, 
10:49 PM>> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/December_9_2009.html>>>> 
______________________________________________>> 
http://www.meteoritecentral.com>> Meteorite-list mailing list>> 
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>> 
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list>>>>>> 
______________________________________________> 
http://www.meteoritecentral.com> Meteorite-list mailing list> 
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com> 
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list>______________________________________________http://www.meteoritecentral.comMeteorite-list 
mailing 
listMeteorite-list at meteoritecentral.comhttp://six.pairlist.net/mailman/li
stinfo/meteorite-list
  


From korotev at wustl.edu  Wed Dec  9 10:21:03 2009
From: korotev at wustl.edu (Randy Korotev)
Date: Wed, 09 Dec 2009 09:21:03 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Libyan (looks like a) crater
Message-ID: <200912091520.nB9FKSW10265@levee.wustl.edu>

Dear List:

I received this intriguing e-mail today from someone I don't know.

=========================

Dear Randy, I am a geophysicist and had a recent 
trip on Libyan desert for campaign of geophysical 
investigations, mostly GPR and Geoelectric 
tomography. Going back to the camp I found at 
sunset ?due to low angle light- something strange on the flat desert surface.

I found a perfect circular crater with melt sand 
scattered around . sand grains are melt and 
embedding larger quartz grains. In my opinion 
that?s a impact crater and sand is melt because 
of the heat wave. Larger grains had no time to melt .

That melt rock has a black matrix-nothing like 
that in the area, also there are no similar 
structures in that flat, flat flat  desrt 
surface, sand is only silica and quartz grain and 
no dark matrix can be seen for kilometers.

I made a few geophysics on the spot and found big 
electric anomalies and very anomalous readings of Geoelectric values.

I took a few samples of melt rock ?very heavy really.

I am posting a few photos of the crater.

I have another stone found at 2500 m on the bed 
of a melt glacier, same story, that?s not a stone 
of the area, it is like a fuse, heavy and black 
inside with a very aerodynamic shape, I will mail 
you a photo ( after reading once more your 
recommendations) if interested . for sure not a 
human artifact or an original stone of the area.

Sorry to disturb,
...
=========================
I put the photos here:

http://meteorites.wustl.edu/meteorwrongs/libyan_crater.htm

The round thing in the desert looks something 
like a crater.  Maybe it's a bomb crater.  Maybe 
it's a meteorite impact crater.  The rock doesn't 
look like samples of Libyan desert glass that 
I've seen.  I don't know the LDG story well.  Has 
there ever been a crater associated with the glass?


Randy Korotev
Saint Louis, MO
korotev at wustl.edu 




From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Wed Dec  9 10:49:28 2009
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 10:49:28 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Libyan (looks like a) crater
In-Reply-To: <200912091520.nB9FKSW10265@levee.wustl.edu>
References: <200912091520.nB9FKSW10265@levee.wustl.edu>
Message-ID: <e51421550912090749u9168a9fya5620dfcce4df6e8@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Randy,

As a layman's wild uneducated guess, I'd say the "crater" is more
recent - perhaps from a bomb.

Given the accepted terrestrial age of LDG, the impact site is
presumably ~28 million years old.

I don't know, the feature in that photo doesn't look quite that old
and it looks too tenuous to survive for long in the state we see it.

This might be a case of wishful thinking.  Although it would be nice
to finally find the crater associated with LDG.

Best regards and happy huntings,

MikeG


On 12/9/09, Randy Korotev <korotev at wustl.edu> wrote:
> Dear List:
>
> I received this intriguing e-mail today from someone I don't know.
>
> =========================
>
> Dear Randy, I am a geophysicist and had a recent
> trip on Libyan desert for campaign of geophysical
> investigations, mostly GPR and Geoelectric
> tomography. Going back to the camp I found at
> sunset ?due to low angle light- something strange on the flat desert
> surface.
>
> I found a perfect circular crater with melt sand
> scattered around . sand grains are melt and
> embedding larger quartz grains. In my opinion
> that?s a impact crater and sand is melt because
> of the heat wave. Larger grains had no time to melt .
>
> That melt rock has a black matrix-nothing like
> that in the area, also there are no similar
> structures in that flat, flat flat  desrt
> surface, sand is only silica and quartz grain and
> no dark matrix can be seen for kilometers.
>
> I made a few geophysics on the spot and found big
> electric anomalies and very anomalous readings of Geoelectric values.
>
> I took a few samples of melt rock ?very heavy really.
>
> I am posting a few photos of the crater.
>
> I have another stone found at 2500 m on the bed
> of a melt glacier, same story, that?s not a stone
> of the area, it is like a fuse, heavy and black
> inside with a very aerodynamic shape, I will mail
> you a photo ( after reading once more your
> recommendations) if interested . for sure not a
> human artifact or an original stone of the area.
>
> Sorry to disturb,
> ...
> =========================
> I put the photos here:
>
> http://meteorites.wustl.edu/meteorwrongs/libyan_crater.htm
>
> The round thing in the desert looks something
> like a crater.  Maybe it's a bomb crater.  Maybe
> it's a meteorite impact crater.  The rock doesn't
> look like samples of Libyan desert glass that
> I've seen.  I don't know the LDG story well.  Has
> there ever been a crater associated with the glass?
>
>
> Randy Korotev
> Saint Louis, MO
> korotev at wustl.edu
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


-- 
.........................................................
Michael Gilmer (Florida, USA)
Member of the Meteoritical Society.
Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com
FaceBook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale
Twitter - Twitter - http://twitter.com/GalacticStone
eBay - http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/maypickle
..........................................................


From skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com  Wed Dec  9 11:10:39 2009
From: skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com (Joe Kerchner)
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 08:10:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Illinois Meteorwrong Announcement/Sort of Ad
In-Reply-To: <20091205111457.clhbsuun8ao0gocc@webmail.localnet.com>
References: <20091205111457.clhbsuun8ao0gocc@webmail.localnet.com>
Message-ID: <953807.64817.qm@web43407.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>



Hello All,
   I have added some more nice slices to the for sale page, I will be adding more today, but eveytime I list new ones they are gone really fast, so if you want one for either educational purposes or just to display, among meteorites you can not tell it is a wrong, it will be a nice addition to mast any collection, even if you have never purchased a meteorwrong before, this one is an exception, Everyone whos has recieved them so far are very happy with their specimen. I know you will be to. Even if you dont want to buy, just take a look and see how much it looks like a meteorite. Here is the for sale page, dont forget to check back later if you see nothing you like.

http://illinoismeteorites.com/mendotawrongsforsale.htm

Best Wishes,
Joe Kerchner
http://illinoismeteorites.com



----- Original Message ----
From: "almitt2 at localnet.com" <almitt2 at localnet.com>
To: Meteorite List <Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Sat, December 5, 2009 10:14:57 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Illinois Meteorwrong Announcement/Sort of Ad

Greetings,

Some of you may remember a while back that Joe Kerchner found some interesting looking specimens while out meteorite hunting. I was involved in helping him get the specimens to a researcher who has determined they are a good meteorwrong but not a meteorite.

Many may remember a number of meteorwrongs we have come a cross in the past like some of the Russian specimens that turned out to be a terrestrial basalt with nickel in it. I feel that Joe's specimens are an excellent meteorwrong and have added a sample to my collection. I thought others might want to contact him and add some also. He is offering some of this material up for sale. I have added a link so you can visit his site and consider some of this material or simply look at it.

http://illinoismeteorites.com/mendotawrongsforsale.htm

You can also contact him here directly. Have fun!


Joe Kerchner      illinoismeteorites at gmail.com

Not too often you come across material that looks so promising like Joe did but still turns out to not be the real McCoy. This is the sort of item that is fun to add to a collection. All my best!

--AL Mitterling
Mitterling Meteorites

______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



      


From grf2 at comcast.net  Wed Dec  9 11:51:43 2009
From: grf2 at comcast.net (Jerry Flaherty)
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 11:51:43 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Libyan (looks like a) crater
References: <200912091520.nB9FKSW10265@levee.wustl.edu>
Message-ID: <728071AE89394F5B8671C12C298850A3@ASUS>

Sure does

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Randy Korotev" <korotev at wustl.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 10:21 AM
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Subject: [meteorite-list] Libyan (looks like a) crater

> Dear List:
>
> I received this intriguing e-mail today from someone I don't know.
>
> =========================
>
> Dear Randy, I am a geophysicist and had a recent trip on Libyan desert for 
> campaign of geophysical investigations, mostly GPR and Geoelectric 
> tomography. Going back to the camp I found at sunset -due to low angle 
> light- something strange on the flat desert surface.
>
> I found a perfect circular crater with melt sand scattered around . sand 
> grains are melt and embedding larger quartz grains. In my opinion that's a 
> impact crater and sand is melt because of the heat wave. Larger grains had 
> no time to melt .
>
> That melt rock has a black matrix-nothing like that in the area, also 
> there are no similar structures in that flat, flat flat  desrt surface, 
> sand is only silica and quartz grain and no dark matrix can be seen for 
> kilometers.
>
> I made a few geophysics on the spot and found big electric anomalies and 
> very anomalous readings of Geoelectric values.
>
> I took a few samples of melt rock -very heavy really.
>
> I am posting a few photos of the crater.
>
> I have another stone found at 2500 m on the bed of a melt glacier, same 
> story, that's not a stone of the area, it is like a fuse, heavy and black 
> inside with a very aerodynamic shape, I will mail you a photo ( after 
> reading once more your recommendations) if interested . for sure not a 
> human artifact or an original stone of the area.
>
> Sorry to disturb,
> ...
> =========================
> I put the photos here:
>
> http://meteorites.wustl.edu/meteorwrongs/libyan_crater.htm
>
> The round thing in the desert looks something like a crater.  Maybe it's a 
> bomb crater.  Maybe it's a meteorite impact crater.  The rock doesn't look 
> like samples of Libyan desert glass that I've seen.  I don't know the LDG 
> story well.  Has there ever been a crater associated with the glass?
>
>
> Randy Korotev
> Saint Louis, MO
> korotev at wustl.edu
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From meteoriteman at comcast.net  Wed Dec  9 12:52:13 2009
From: meteoriteman at comcast.net (meteoriteman at comcast.net)
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 17:52:13 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Libyan (looks like a) crater
Message-ID: <1050916570.11700571260381133416.JavaMail.root@sz0098a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>


Obviously it's a crater. The site should be investigated and hunted. If the finder of this crater doesn't want to follow up on the site, I'm sure someone on this list would like to check it out if the coordinates were made available.

Jim K


From fujmon at mac.com  Wed Dec  9 13:04:15 2009
From: fujmon at mac.com (Gary Fujihara)
Date: Wed, 09 Dec 2009 08:04:15 -1000
Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA 869 lot - partners sought
Message-ID: <F7D715A5-7298-4AF8-B4A8-E91DAF453DFB@mac.com>

Aloha listees,

As some of you may be aware, there is a 25 kilo lot of NWA 869 available in Morocco.  I cannot use all 25 kilos, but am interested in pulling 2-5 kilos of smaller 3-20g stones out for my outreach giveaways.  

I am looking for people in the US interested in partnering on this lot, cost sharing of shipping and wire fees.  Looking at ~$120/kg, 2 kilo minimum acquisition for partners, plus proportional expenses of the aforementioned fees.  I'll take the risks on bank wiring and shipping.  Offlist inquiries please.

http://astroday.net/Images/NWA869-25kg1.jpg
http://astroday.net/Images/NWA869-25kg2.jpg

Gary Fujihara
Big Kahuna Meteorites
105 Puhili Place
Hilo, Hawaii 96720
(808) 640-9161



From aerubin at ucla.edu  Wed Dec  9 13:17:50 2009
From: aerubin at ucla.edu (Alan Rubin)
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 10:17:50 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite hits and Kills Man
References: <80659e1a0912081937r3e6edbaav4c49764c19256747@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A12BDEEA765B420B802D51310077845C@SINOITE>

Spike TV interviewed me a few months ago for a Death-by-Meteorite show.  Of 
course, I never saw the video and I have no idea what they will include of 
the interview.  Although they never told me what show I would be on, I 
suppose it is on this one.  I do admit that I was at that Woodland Hills 
party; I had calculated when that meteorite would fall and positioned that 
annoying guy in the right spot.  I retrieved the meteorite from the pool and 
swore everyone to silence.  (I later sold the meteorite on ebay as a Campo.) 
The plan was perfect except for having forgotten about the guy with the 
video camera from Spike TV who had also come to the party.
Alan Rubin

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ruben Garcia" <mrmeteorite at gmail.com>
To: "Meteorite List" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 7:37 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite hits and Kills Man


> It must be true Spike TV wouldn't lie.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfT5onJJrgk
> -- 
> Rock On!
>
> Ruben Garcia
>
> Website: http://www.mr-meteorite.net
> Articles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/
> Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=meteorfright#p/u
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From minador at yahoo.com  Wed Dec  9 13:39:07 2009
From: minador at yahoo.com (Mark Bowling)
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 10:39:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Libyan (looks like a) crater
In-Reply-To: <200912091520.nB9FKSW10265@levee.wustl.edu>
Message-ID: <124709.3760.qm@web54502.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Randy,

It does look like a crater!  I wouldn't assume it's related to LDG per se, as that glass is found in Egypt.  Did he give a rough indication of where in Libya?  Wouldn?t an impact site for LDG be a bit larger in scale?  The sample looks pretty interesting, but it could be sedimentary in nature because, just looking at the photo, the tiny grains don?t look melted.  I would be excited if I found such a feature.  Hard to say just from photos.

How about the Sahara explorers ? have you seen many similar features in the desert?


Thanks for sharing!

Mark B.
Vail, AZ

--- On Wed, 12/9/09, Randy Korotev <korotev at wustl.edu> wrote:

> From: Randy Korotev <korotev at wustl.edu>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Libyan (looks like a) crater
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Wednesday, December 9, 2009, 8:21 AM
> Dear List:
> 
> I received this intriguing e-mail today from someone I
> don't know.
> 
> =========================
> 
> Dear Randy, I am a geophysicist and had a recent trip on
> Libyan desert for campaign of geophysical investigations,
> mostly GPR and Geoelectric tomography. Going back to the
> camp I found at sunset ?due to low angle light- something
> strange on the flat desert surface.
> 
> I found a perfect circular crater with melt sand scattered
> around . sand grains are melt and embedding larger quartz
> grains. In my opinion that?s a impact crater and sand is
> melt because of the heat wave. Larger grains had no time to
> melt .
> 
> That melt rock has a black matrix-nothing like that in the
> area, also there are no similar structures in that flat,
> flat flat? desrt surface, sand is only silica and
> quartz grain and no dark matrix can be seen for kilometers.
> 
> I made a few geophysics on the spot and found big electric
> anomalies and very anomalous readings of Geoelectric
> values.
> 
> I took a few samples of melt rock ?very heavy really.
> 
> I am posting a few photos of the crater.
> 
> I have another stone found at 2500 m on the bed of a melt
> glacier, same story, that?s not a stone of the area, it is
> like a fuse, heavy and black inside with a very aerodynamic
> shape, I will mail you a photo ( after reading once more
> your recommendations) if interested . for sure not a human
> artifact or an original stone of the area.
> 
> Sorry to disturb,
> ...
> =========================
> I put the photos here:
> 
> http://meteorites.wustl.edu/meteorwrongs/libyan_crater.htm
> 
> The round thing in the desert looks something like a
> crater.? Maybe it's a bomb crater.? Maybe it's a
> meteorite impact crater.? The rock doesn't look like
> samples of Libyan desert glass that I've seen.? I don't
> know the LDG story well.? Has there ever been a crater
> associated with the glass?
> 
> 
> Randy Korotev
> Saint Louis, MO
> korotev at wustl.edu
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


From mrmeteorite at gmail.com  Wed Dec  9 13:47:12 2009
From: mrmeteorite at gmail.com (Ruben Garcia)
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 11:47:12 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite hits and Kills Man
In-Reply-To: <A12BDEEA765B420B802D51310077845C@SINOITE>
References: <80659e1a0912081937r3e6edbaav4c49764c19256747@mail.gmail.com>
	<A12BDEEA765B420B802D51310077845C@SINOITE>
Message-ID: <80659e1a0912091047x5c0a69blcfa61ef8942ba562@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry Alan,

There is only ONE Ruben that had anything to do with this
mock-umentary - and that's me.
Geoff and Steve can attest to the fact that each year during their
"Birthday Bash" I bring my bible and scream, "Turn or Burn!"    This
video documents the thoughts running in Mike Farmers mind as each year
they throw me into the ally just before "Harvey Award" time.

Note to self: Start screaming after "Harvey Awards" - In case I win.....






On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 11:17 AM, Alan Rubin <aerubin at ucla.edu> wrote:
> Spike TV interviewed me a few months ago for a Death-by-Meteorite show. ?Of
> course, I never saw the video and I have no idea what they will include of
> the interview. ?Although they never told me what show I would be on, I
> suppose it is on this one. ?I do admit that I was at that Woodland Hills
> party; I had calculated when that meteorite would fall and positioned that
> annoying guy in the right spot. ?I retrieved the meteorite from the pool and
> swore everyone to silence. ?(I later sold the meteorite on ebay as a Campo.)
> The plan was perfect except for having forgotten about the guy with the
> video camera from Spike TV who had also come to the party.
> Alan Rubin
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ruben Garcia" <mrmeteorite at gmail.com>
> To: "Meteorite List" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 7:37 PM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite hits and Kills Man
>
>
>> It must be true Spike TV wouldn't lie.
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfT5onJJrgk
>> --
>> Rock On!
>>
>> Ruben Garcia
>>
>> Website: http://www.mr-meteorite.net
>> Articles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/
>> Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=meteorfright#p/u
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>



-- 
Rock On!

Ruben Garcia

Website: http://www.mr-meteorite.net
Articles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/
Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=meteorfright#p/u


From ianbarrett1 at o2.co.uk  Wed Dec  9 14:13:33 2009
From: ianbarrett1 at o2.co.uk (Ian Barrett - Jurassic Jewellery)
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 19:13:33 -0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] SALE- Introducing A Unique Range Of Meteorite And
	Fossil Jewellery
Message-ID: <000801ca7903$b3d146a0$1b73d3e0$@co.uk>


I would like to offer you all a Christmas present buying opportunity.
I make a wide range of Meteorite and Fossil jewellery and I'm sure there
will be something to appeal to any meteorite fan.

Most of my jewellery is handmade solid silver jewellery set with fragments
of iron or stone meteorite.
I have solid silver stars set with meteorite fragment -  as well as the
famous and very popular Silver Spaceman Necklace.
This is a lovely little solid silver Spaceman with a fragment of iron
meteorite set into his chest as a visor. He also has a cobalt blue enamel
visor and looks fantastic!
>From next month there will be a full range of my meteorite jewellery for
sale at the San Diego Air And Space Museum. 
http://www.aerospacemuseum.org/
They have a new exhibit opening called 'The Science Of Aliens' and want
Jurassic Jewellery to supply the visitor shop.
I am very excited by this opportunity and am sure it will be the first of
many.

Please do visit the Jurassic Jewellery website and see what I offer.
Every piece is supplied with a signed certificate of authenticity. I am
member 0185 of the IMCA and also founder member and  journal editor for
BIMS - the UK and Irish Meteorite Society http://www.bimsociety.org/
Thanks in advance.


Ian Barrett
Jurassic Jewellery
A Unique Collection Of Meteorite And Fossil Jewellery
http://www.jurassicjewellery.co.uk





From Impactika at aol.com  Wed Dec  9 15:17:31 2009
From: Impactika at aol.com (Impactika at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 15:17:31 EST
Subject: [meteorite-list] Libyan (looks like a) crater
Message-ID: <d6b.57127c9c.38515fdb@aol.com>

Hello Randy,
 
A field of craters was discovered in the south west corner of Egypt a few 
years ago, but the research and study is only beginning. 
It was done by a French team, here is a link to the preliminary report:
_http://www.impactika.com/pailloucras04.pdf_ 
(http://www.impactika.com/pailloucras04.pdf) 
 
I hope this can help.
Thanks.
 
Anne M. Black
_http://www.impactika.com/_ (http://www.impactika.com/) 
_IMPACTIKA at aol.com_ (mailto:IMPACTIKA at aol.com) 
Vice-President, I.M.C.A. Inc.
_http://www.imca.cc/_ (http://www.imca.cc/) 



In a message dated 12/9/2009 8:41:52 AM Mountain Standard Time, 
korotev at wustl.edu writes:
Dear List:

I received this intriguing e-mail today from someone I don't know.

=========================

Dear Randy, I am a geophysicist and had a recent 
trip on Libyan desert for campaign of geophysical 
investigations, mostly GPR and Geoelectric 
tomography. Going back to the camp I found at 
sunset ?due to low angle light- something strange on the flat desert 
surface.

I found a perfect circular crater with melt sand 
scattered around . sand grains are melt and 
embedding larger quartz grains. In my opinion 
that?s a impact crater and sand is melt because 
of the heat wave. Larger grains had no time to melt .

That melt rock has a black matrix-nothing like 
that in the area, also there are no similar 
structures in that flat, flat flat  desrt 
surface, sand is only silica and quartz grain and 
no dark matrix can be seen for kilometers.

I made a few geophysics on the spot and found big 
electric anomalies and very anomalous readings of Geoelectric values.

I took a few samples of melt rock ?very heavy really.

I am posting a few photos of the crater.

I have another stone found at 2500 m on the bed 
of a melt glacier, same story, that?s not a stone 
of the area, it is like a fuse, heavy and black 
inside with a very aerodynamic shape, I will mail 
you a photo ( after reading once more your 
recommendations) if interested . for sure not a 
human artifact or an original stone of the area.

Sorry to disturb,
...
=========================
I put the photos here:

http://meteorites.wustl.edu/meteorwrongs/libyan_crater.htm

The round thing in the desert looks something 
like a crater.  Maybe it's a bomb crater.  Maybe 
it's a meteorite impact crater.  The rock doesn't 
look like samples of Libyan desert glass that 
I've seen.  I don't know the LDG story well.  Has 
there ever been a crater associated with the glass?


Randy Korotev
Saint Louis, MO
korotev at wustl.edu 


From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net  Wed Dec  9 15:47:49 2009
From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb)
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 14:47:49 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Libyan (looks like a) crater
References: <200912091520.nB9FKSW10265@levee.wustl.edu>
Message-ID: <47A5C42784D44DC586E970F4FE61F3D6@ATARIENGINE2>

Hi, Randy, List,

Two thumbs down on this WWII crater. Here's
some why's:

http://glenavalon.com/ldglass.html
    "The distribution is approximately elliptical,
~130 km by ~50 km with the major axis ~NNW
by SSE... The [present] dune sand and dunes
have been formed in a time estimated to be less
than 1,000,000 years, yet the fission track dates
of the glass have a mean of ~28,000,000 years...
[The] chemistry [of] the glass cannot have been
fused from the local exposed sandstone... "

A map of the Great Sand Sea with the LDG
area indicated can be found at:
http://www.pisces-press.com/C-Nav/images/ldg-area.jpg

LDG covers about 5000 km^2 in Egypt, not
Libya. The present surface is deeply overlayed
on the surface of 28 mya. At that time,  the
surface was shallowly underwater throughout
most of the area of the Fayyum Depression.
Underlying the present surface is ~300 meters
of limestone formed in those shallow waters.
And underlying that is more sandstone.

It's hard to estimate the total mass of LDG
produced. Present day finds are not in situ. Some
LDG shows evidence of aqueous transport and
long aeolian weathering. Some LDG has been
found weathering out of the limestone outcrops.
Considering that any LDG is still found, the
total mass may have been in the millions of tons.
The surface distribution is estimated at 1500 tons.

Clayton (the discoverer of LDG) and Spencer
said that 10% of their finds were worked human
artifacts, from the Alteran peoples, 30,000 to
18,000 years ago. Isolated LDG pieces have
been found up 140 miles from the strewnfield
in conditions suggesting human transport

The 2006 discovery of "Kebira" crater, far to the
SW, has been suggested as a source for LDG. Here's
a report by someone who visited it and doesn't think
it's a crater:
http://www.pisces-press.com/C-Nav/crater.htm

An excellent history and summary of speculation:
http://www.saudiaramcoworld.com/issue/197905/desert.glass-an.enigma.htm

Another summary:
http://www.pisces-press.com/C-Nav/ldg.htm

Mark Boslough of Sandia thinks he has the
answer, but the expedition he was with doesn't
think it's a crater:
http://www.sandia.gov/news/publications/technology/2006/0804/glass.html

At least one case has been made for the non-
impact origin of LDG (nice pictures):
http://www.b14643.de/Sahara/LDG/index.htm



Sterling K. Webb
-------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Randy Korotev" <korotev at wustl.edu>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 9:21 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Libyan (looks like a) crater


Dear List:

I received this intriguing e-mail today from someone I don't know.

=========================

Dear Randy, I am a geophysicist and had a recent
trip on Libyan desert for campaign of geophysical
investigations, mostly GPR and Geoelectric
tomography. Going back to the camp I found at
sunset -due to low angle light- something strange on the flat desert 
surface.

I found a perfect circular crater with melt sand
scattered around . sand grains are melt and
embedding larger quartz grains. In my opinion
that's a impact crater and sand is melt because
of the heat wave. Larger grains had no time to melt .

That melt rock has a black matrix-nothing like
that in the area, also there are no similar
structures in that flat, flat flat  desrt
surface, sand is only silica and quartz grain and
no dark matrix can be seen for kilometers.

I made a few geophysics on the spot and found big
electric anomalies and very anomalous readings of Geoelectric values.

I took a few samples of melt rock -very heavy really.

I am posting a few photos of the crater.

I have another stone found at 2500 m on the bed
of a melt glacier, same story, that's not a stone
of the area, it is like a fuse, heavy and black
inside with a very aerodynamic shape, I will mail
you a photo ( after reading once more your
recommendations) if interested . for sure not a
human artifact or an original stone of the area.

Sorry to disturb,
...
=========================
I put the photos here:

http://meteorites.wustl.edu/meteorwrongs/libyan_crater.htm

The round thing in the desert looks something
like a crater.  Maybe it's a bomb crater.  Maybe
it's a meteorite impact crater.  The rock doesn't
look like samples of Libyan desert glass that
I've seen.  I don't know the LDG story well.  Has
there ever been a crater associated with the glass?


Randy Korotev
Saint Louis, MO
korotev at wustl.edu


______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From meteoritefinder at yahoo.com  Wed Dec  9 15:55:17 2009
From: meteoritefinder at yahoo.com (meteoritefinder at yahoo.com)
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 12:55:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Spaceweather sighting - off topic
Message-ID: <915363.82048.qm@web39607.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hello List.

  Off topic, but hopefully of interest. See below the link to the Spaceweather posting for today. Check out the pretty weird visual sighting over Norway, etc.  

   www.spaceweather.com/   

  Best,
  Robert Woolard






      


From lintonius at earthlink.net  Wed Dec  9 16:13:56 2009
From: lintonius at earthlink.net (Linton Rohr)
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 13:13:56 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Spaceweather sighting - off topic
References: <915363.82048.qm@web39607.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <53021503D91F4F798F1A017EAF12E7F7@D190TH71>

I saw that, Robert. What the ____!
That looks like something out of a SciFi movie.
Steeeeeeerange!
Linton

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <meteoritefinder at yahoo.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 12:55 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Spaceweather sighting - off topic


> Hello List.
>
>  Off topic, but hopefully of interest. See below the link to the 
> Spaceweather posting for today. Check out the pretty weird visual sighting 
> over Norway, etc.
>
>   www.spaceweather.com/
>
>  Best,
>  Robert Woolard
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 



From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Wed Dec  9 16:21:13 2009
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Wed, 09 Dec 2009 13:21:13 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Spaceweather sighting - off topic
In-Reply-To: <915363.82048.qm@web39607.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <915363.82048.qm@web39607.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4B2014C9.5030908@meteoritesusa.com>

What the _____ is that?!

Regards,
Eric


meteoritefinder at yahoo.com wrote:
> Hello List.
>
>   Off topic, but hopefully of interest. See below the link to the Spaceweather posting for today. Check out the pretty weird visual sighting over Norway, etc.  
>
>    www.spaceweather.com/   
>
>   Best,
>   Robert Woolard
>
>
>
>
>
>
>       
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>   



From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Wed Dec  9 16:42:40 2009
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 13:42:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Further Tests Designed for Rover's Right-Rear Wheel
Message-ID: <200912092142.nB9LgeaF008777@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>


http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2009-185  

Further Tests Designed for Rover's Right-Rear Wheel
Jet Propulsion Laboratory
December 07, 2009

A series of diagnostic tests on Spirit's right-rear wheel on sols 2104
and 2105 (Dec. 3 and 4) investigated stalls that occurred on Sol 2099
(Nov. 28) and earlier. The rover team cannot draw any conclusions at
this point, but the results are not encouraging, and further tests are
planned.

The recent tests included rotor-resistance tests at three temperatures
and a one-radian (about 57 degrees) forward motion test. The resistance
tests indicate anomalously high resistance in the motor winding at all
three temperatures. However, a curious transition from anomalously low
resistance to high resistance was observed very briefly on the very
first resistance test. The resistance remained high for the balance of
all the testing. Control measurements on the left-rear wheel showed
normal resistance for that actuator motor. For the forward wheel motion
test, the right-rear wheel stalled immediately and did not produce any
motion.

The plan ahead is to explore a set of hypotheses: possible motor
failure, possible internal gearbox jam, possible external jam (e.g., a
rock in the wheel). Commands being developed for Spirit's activities on
sols 2109 and 2110 (Tuesday and Wednesday, Dec. 8 and 9) will include
more diagnostics to explore these hypotheses.



From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Wed Dec  9 16:45:07 2009
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 13:45:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] MRO Spacecraft Out of Safe Mode
Message-ID: <200912092145.nB9Lj7Xw009791@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>


http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2009-186  

Spacecraft Out of Safe Mode
Jet Propulsion Laboratory
December 08, 2009

Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter Mission Status Report

PASADENA, Calif. -- NASA's Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter today has been
taken out of the precautionary "safe mode" it had been in since August. 

Taking the spacecraft out of safe mode is the latest step in a series of
commands that are being sent to the orbiter this week. Engineers plan to
resume science operations once they conclude a check of all the science
instruments.  Normal science operations may resume next week.

The mission flight team successfully uploaded new software last week
that provided a patch to prevent the orbiter from an unlikely scenario
of back-to-back computer resets that could potentially jeopardize the
mission. 

"The patient is out of danger but more steps have to be taken to get it
back on its feet," said Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter Project Manager Jim
Erickson of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif.

The flight team began an uplink of some preventive-care files on Monday,
Nov. 30, as part of a multi-step process preparing the orbiter to resume
its observations of Mars. The spacecraft went into a minimum-activity
safe mode on Aug. 26 when it spontaneously reset its onboard computer
for the fourth time this year. The orbiter had resumed normal operations
within a few days after each of the earlier resets: Feb. 23, June 4 and
Aug. 6.  After the Aug. 26 event, the team chose to keep the spacecraft
in safe mode while investigating possible causes and ramifications of
the series of resets.

The Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter spacecraft has been studying Mars with
an advanced set of instruments since 2006. It has returned more data
about the planet than all other past and current missions to Mars combined.

JPL, a division of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena,
manages the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter for NASA's Science Mission
Directorate, Washington. Lockheed Martin Space Systems, Denver, is the
prime contractor for the project and built the spacecraft.

Media contacts: Guy Webster
Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif.
818-354-6278
guy.webster at jpl.nasa.gov

2009-186



From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Wed Dec  9 16:50:33 2009
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 13:50:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars Methane 'Not From Meteors'
Message-ID: <200912092150.nB9LoX9o011531@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8402741.stm  

Mars methane 'not from meteors'
BBC News
December 9, 2009

The methane found on Mars is not brought to the planet by meteor
strikes, scientists say.

Meteoritic material subjected to high temperatures did not release
enough methane to account for the amount believed to be released on Mars.

The researchers argue that the methane must therefore be created by
geologic or chemical processes, or it is a by-product of microbial life.

The work appears in Earth and Planetary Science Letters.

The origin of the methane on Mars has remained a mystery since it was
first detected in 2004.

Because methane has a limited lifetime in the Martian atmosphere before
degrading, some process must be pumping hundreds of tonnes of it into
the Martian atmosphere annually to keep it at the levels that have been
detected.

Scientists at Imperial College London say they have now ruled out the
possibility that the methane is being constantly deposited by meteorites
landing on the planet.

They heated meteorite fragments to 1,000C, quantifying the gases
produced by measuring how much they absorbed an infrared laser.

They then calculated, based on estimates of how many meteorites impact
Mars annually, how much methane would be released.

They found that just 10kg of methane is produced from meteors each year,
in contrast to the 100-300 tonnes that must be produced to keep the
atmospheric concentration at its current levels.

That suggests that a number of other possibilities, many of which are
based on chemical reactions of the rocks that form the planet's crust.

Alternatively, the gas may be produced by volcanoes or life that
survives beneath the crust - or it may be trapped in chemical cages,
having been produced long ago.

"As Sherlock Holmes said, eliminate all other factors and the one that
remains must be the truth," said study co-author Mark Sephton.

"The list of possible sources of methane gas is getting smaller and
excitingly, extraterrestrial life still remains an option. Ultimately,
the final test may have to be on Mars."

The US space agency Nasa will launch the Mars Science Laboratory in
2011, which will be able to study the methane more closely.

In November, the European and American space agencies signed an
agreement to collaborate on Mars missions that will return to the
planet, starting in 2016.



From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Wed Dec  9 18:04:33 2009
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 15:04:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Second Wheel Problem Dims Hope For Stuck Spirit
	Rover
Message-ID: <200912092304.nB9N4X6V014363@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>


http://www.spaceflightnow.com/news/n0912/09spirit/

Second wheel problem dims hope for stuck Spirit rover
BY CRAIG COVAULT
SPACEFLIGHT NOW
December 9, 2009

Problems with a second wheel on the Mars rover Spirit's right side have
decreased the already slim possibility that the rover can free itself
from a sand trap and return to roving operations.

Jet Propulsion Laboratory engineers this week shifted operations from
freeing Spirit to instead diagnosing the new wheel problem which would
be critical in getting the rover unstuck.

If that's the bad news, the good news is that both the Mars
Reconnaissance Orbiter and Mars Odyssey orbiter have successfully
recovered from going into "safe mode" during November.

This has enabled Odyssey to return to full time radio relay operations
for commanding both Spirit and Opportunity and will hopefully allow MRO
to resume high resolution imaging operations by next week.

The mission flight team successfully uploaded new software to MRO last
week that provided a patch to prevent the orbiter from an unlikely
scenario of back-to-back computer resets that could potentially
jeopardize the mission.

"The patient is out of danger but more steps have to be taken to get it
back on its feet," said Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter Project Manager Jim
Erickson at JPL. The situation on the ground with Spirit is less
promising, however.

Spirit's right front wheel failed early in the mission following its
landing in January 2004, and now its right rear wheel has also stopped
rotating normally.

The new problem has left the rover with only one good drive wheel on its
right side for further attempts to free all of its left wheels that have
been mired in a soft, slippery volcanic powder for six months.

It is doubtful Spirit will be successful in freeing itself if only one
wheel on its right side is operational, John Callas, rover project
manager has told NASA management.

Spirit had been driving backwards, dragging the right front wheel on
ambitious roving operations that included climbing and descending the
700 ft. high Husband Hill during 2005. That was all going well until it
became stuck in April beside the table-like Home Plate volcanic feature
located on the back side of Husband Hill.

According to a JPL engineering summary of events, an initial diagnostic
test on Sol 2095 (Nov. 24) indicated a freely moving wheel. But another
two-step drive with 16 feet of wheel spin commanded on Sol 2099 (Nov.
28) resulted in more trouble. That drive resulted in another right rear
wheel stall after only 5 feet of wheel motion.

JPL engineers say that a reanalysis of a right rear wheel stall on Sol
1837 (March 25) well before Spirit became stuck suggests that a stall
that occurred then may not have been terrain related as thought at the
time. Instead it could have been an initial indication that right rear
wheel motor or gearbox problems were developing.

To investigate this, three sets of rotor resistance tests at cold,
ambient and warm temperatures were commanded over Sols 2104 (Dec. 3) and
2105 (Dec. 4) to check the health of the motor windings and motor brushes.

A small right rear wheel motion in the direction of the stall was also
commanded on Sol 2104 to see if the stall persisted.

The recent tests included rotor-resistance tests at three temperatures
and a one-radian (about 57 degrees) forward motion test. The resistance
tests indicate anomalously high resistance in the motor winding at all
three temperatures. However, a curious transition from anomalously low
resistance to high resistance was observed very briefly on the very
first resistance test.

The resistance remained high for the balance of all the testing. Control
measurements on the left-rear wheel showed normal resistance for that
actuator motor. For the forward wheel motion test, the right-rear wheel
stalled immediately and did not produce any motion.

The plan ahead is to explore a set of hypotheses: possible motor
failure, possible internal gearbox jam, possible external jam (e.g., a
rock in the wheel). Commands were being sent Dec 8 and Dec. 9 for more
tests of the right rear wheel.



From abudka at nycap.rr.com  Wed Dec  9 15:53:02 2009
From: abudka at nycap.rr.com (abudka at nycap.rr.com)
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 20:53:02 +0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] Lovina
Message-ID: <20091209205302.SNG4D.269155.root@cdptpa-web23-z02>

I am new to this type of discussion and joined the list because of my interest in Lovina.

Reading Darryl Pitt?s posting in Vol. 75, Issue 17, I am prompted to comment.

As I opened ?Meteorite,? out flew the beautiful image of Lovina, with its very striking nickel-iron Widmanst?tten morphology, cubic symmetry dendritic structures!  Here was additional, exciting evidence to confirm my insights that nickel-iron meteorites are primary crystallization structures!  

1.  While unusual ? but not unknown - in the meteoritics world, such structures are familiar to casting metallurgists.  Show the Lovina image to a metallurgist or metallurgical engineer.  Do NOT tell that person that it is a possible meteorite, but ask him / her to describe how that object could have formed.  Then listen.  You will hear the word ?casting.?

2.  Core? What core?  The concept of a meteorite parent body with a nickel-iron core is an old idea based on circular reasoning.  Does anyone think that a meteorite parent body can break apart, send pieces of its core to Earth and that we are looking at nickel-iron meteorites that came to Earth without ever reaching the melting point of iron, 1538 ?C (2800 ?F)?  

3.  Calling Lovina?s structure ?ziggurat,? ?pyramidal,? ?pagoda,? ?octahedral? or ?Widmanst?tten,? is Nature?s joke of the simplicity / complexity of cubic symmetry!

4.  When I was new to meteoritics years ago, I showed pictures of a potential meteorite to several meteoriticists.  I was assured that this could not be a meteorite because it was vesicular, and meteorites are NOT vesicular.  That proved to be incorrect because I have since seen images of vesicular meteorites, even nickel-irons.

5.  An alternate interpretation of the meteoritic Widmanst?tten structure as a primary crystallization, 3-dimensional dendritic structure solidified under microgravity conditions is found at my website,

http://meteormetals.com/

For background on the circular reasoning behind how meteoritic Widmanst?tten morphology became the Widmanst?tten mechanism, click Learn More.

6.  Is Lovina a meteorite or a meteor-wrong?  Before that determination is definitively settled, we must have a new metallurgy for meteorites!

Phyllis Budka



From cynapse at charter.net  Wed Dec  9 20:36:25 2009
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Wed, 09 Dec 2009 20:36:25 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Spaceweather sighting - off topic
In-Reply-To: <915363.82048.qm@web39607.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <915363.82048.qm@web39607.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <82k0i51cqo5pm7313dt6vhqpomqcqei0ml@4ax.com>

More:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1234430/Mystery-spiral-blue-light-display-hovers-Norway.html

http://www.nrk.no/nyheter/distrikt/troms_og_finnmark/1.6902392?index=false

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/12/09/awesomely-bizarre-light-show-freaks-out-norway/


From bobl at peaktopeak.com  Wed Dec  9 20:43:49 2009
From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler)
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 18:43:49 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Libyan (looks like a) crater
In-Reply-To: <124709.3760.qm@web54502.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20091210014356.76A4010564@mailwash5.pair.com>

That is interesting.  I wonder how deep it is if someone walked to the
middle of it and scooped the sand out?  Maybe it's a highly eroded impact
crater that has been filled in with sand over the years.

The rock looks like a sedimentary conglomerate of sand and some darker
material.  I wouldn't call it "fused", but I'm not an expert geologist.
What if that was a pool of water a long time ago and it got hit by
lightning?  The sand around the edge of the water wouldn't fuse as much as a
fulgurite would (since the water would distribute the electrical current
throughout the pool), but maybe there would be enough electrical current to
partially fuse it together?  Again, I'm not an expert.  Just guessing.  :-)

Bob Loeffler


-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Mark
Bowling
Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 11:39 AM
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com; Randy Korotev
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Libyan (looks like a) crater

Randy,

It does look like a crater!  I wouldn't assume it's related to LDG per se,
as that glass is found in Egypt.  Did he give a rough indication of where in
Libya?  Wouldn?t an impact site for LDG be a bit larger in scale?  The
sample looks pretty interesting, but it could be sedimentary in nature
because, just looking at the photo, the tiny grains don?t look melted.  I
would be excited if I found such a feature.  Hard to say just from photos.

How about the Sahara explorers ? have you seen many similar features in the
desert?


Thanks for sharing!

Mark B.
Vail, AZ

--- On Wed, 12/9/09, Randy Korotev <korotev at wustl.edu> wrote:

> From: Randy Korotev <korotev at wustl.edu>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Libyan (looks like a) crater
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Wednesday, December 9, 2009, 8:21 AM
> Dear List:
> 
> I received this intriguing e-mail today from someone I
> don't know.
> 
> =========================
> 
> Dear Randy, I am a geophysicist and had a recent trip on
> Libyan desert for campaign of geophysical investigations,
> mostly GPR and Geoelectric tomography. Going back to the
> camp I found at sunset ?due to low angle light- something
> strange on the flat desert surface.
> 
> I found a perfect circular crater with melt sand scattered
> around . sand grains are melt and embedding larger quartz
> grains. In my opinion that?s a impact crater and sand is
> melt because of the heat wave. Larger grains had no time to
> melt .
> 
> That melt rock has a black matrix-nothing like that in the
> area, also there are no similar structures in that flat,
> flat flat? desrt surface, sand is only silica and
> quartz grain and no dark matrix can be seen for kilometers.
> 
> I made a few geophysics on the spot and found big electric
> anomalies and very anomalous readings of Geoelectric
> values.
> 
> I took a few samples of melt rock ?very heavy really.
> 
> I am posting a few photos of the crater.
> 
> I have another stone found at 2500 m on the bed of a melt
> glacier, same story, that?s not a stone of the area, it is
> like a fuse, heavy and black inside with a very aerodynamic
> shape, I will mail you a photo ( after reading once more
> your recommendations) if interested . for sure not a human
> artifact or an original stone of the area.
> 
> Sorry to disturb,
> ...
> =========================
> I put the photos here:
> 
> http://meteorites.wustl.edu/meteorwrongs/libyan_crater.htm
> 
> The round thing in the desert looks something like a
> crater.? Maybe it's a bomb crater.? Maybe it's a
> meteorite impact crater.? The rock doesn't look like
> samples of Libyan desert glass that I've seen.? I don't
> know the LDG story well.? Has there ever been a crater
> associated with the glass?
> 
> 
> Randy Korotev
> Saint Louis, MO
> korotev at wustl.edu
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 
______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
Version: 9.0.709 / Virus Database: 270.14.98/2552 - Release Date: 12/09/09
00:32:00



From cynapse at charter.net  Wed Dec  9 21:10:02 2009
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Wed, 09 Dec 2009 21:10:02 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Spaceweather sighting - off topic
In-Reply-To: <4B2014C9.5030908@meteoritesusa.com>
References: <915363.82048.qm@web39607.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<4B2014C9.5030908@meteoritesusa.com>
Message-ID: <gqk0i5dktfek3bi05qkq5pdfigoso3jd0t@4ax.com>

On Wed, 09 Dec 2009 13:21:13 -0800, you wrote:

>What the _____ is that?!
>

It is doom!  

Doom, I tell you!  

Doom!

Doom.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uzumaki

movie:

http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/3265700/Uzumaki

manga:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/8or11k


From grf2 at comcast.net  Wed Dec  9 21:40:03 2009
From: grf2 at comcast.net (Jerry Flaherty)
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 21:40:03 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Spaceweather sighting - off topic
References: <915363.82048.qm@web39607.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3E2484A7941648CCBDDCA7B74D62C6E2@ASUS>

Wow that's weird.
definitely UFO's

--------------------------------------------------
From: <meteoritefinder at yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 3:55 PM
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Subject: [meteorite-list] Spaceweather sighting - off topic

> Hello List.
>
>  Off topic, but hopefully of interest. See below the link to the 
> Spaceweather posting for today. Check out the pretty weird visual sighting 
> over Norway, etc.
>
>   www.spaceweather.com/
>
>  Best,
>  Robert Woolard
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From cynapse at charter.net  Wed Dec  9 21:52:28 2009
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Wed, 09 Dec 2009 21:52:28 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] OTish be careful with those metorite-finding
	magnets!
In-Reply-To: <915363.82048.qm@web39607.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <915363.82048.qm@web39607.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <jho0i55qelvsnb1e3du5vas6ddct68sraf@4ax.com>

http://magnetnerd.com/Neodymium%20Magnets/Dirks%20Accident.htm?1


From skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com  Wed Dec  9 21:53:02 2009
From: skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com (Joe Kerchner)
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 18:53:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Illinois Meteorwrong Announcement/Sort of Ad
In-Reply-To: <953807.64817.qm@web43407.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
References: <20091205111457.clhbsuun8ao0gocc@webmail.localnet.com>
	<953807.64817.qm@web43407.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <275691.65028.qm@web43411.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Mark and list,

 There are more up. Some nice ones, the largest one that will be offered
Thanks,
Joe K

----- Original Message ----
From: Mark Doyer <ptown_mets at yahoo.com>
To: meteorite list <skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com>
Sent: Wed, December 9, 2009 4:18:27 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Illinois Meteorwrong Announcement/Sort of Ad




  Every time I check your page they are all sold, can you email me or post to the list when you post some new samples to your page?

Mark




----- Original Message ----
From: Joe Kerchner <skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com>
To: meteorite list <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Wed, December 9, 2009 10:10:39 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Illinois Meteorwrong Announcement/Sort of Ad



Hello All,
   I have added some more nice slices to the for sale page, I will be adding more today, but eveytime I list new ones they are gone really fast, so if you want one for either educational purposes or just to display, among meteorites you can not tell it is a wrong, it will be a nice addition to mast any collection, even if you have never purchased a meteorwrong before, this one is an exception, Everyone whos has recieved them so far are very happy with their specimen. I know you will be to. Even if you dont want to buy, just take a look and see how much it looks like a meteorite. Here is the for sale page, dont forget to check back later if you see nothing you like.

http://illinoismeteorites.com/mendotawrongsforsale.htm

Best Wishes,
Joe Kerchner
http://illinoismeteorites.com



----- Original Message ----
From: "almitt2 at localnet.com" <almitt2 at localnet.com>
To: Meteorite List <Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Sat, December 5, 2009 10:14:57 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Illinois Meteorwrong Announcement/Sort of Ad

Greetings,

Some of you may remember a while back that Joe Kerchner found some interesting looking specimens while out meteorite hunting. I was involved in helping him get the specimens to a researcher who has determined they are a good meteorwrong but not a meteorite.

Many may remember a number of meteorwrongs we have come a cross in the past like some of the Russian specimens that turned out to be a terrestrial basalt with nickel in it. I feel that Joe's specimens are an excellent meteorwrong and have added a sample to my collection. I thought others might want to contact him and add some also. He is offering some of this material up for sale. I have added a link so you can visit his site and consider some of this material or simply look at it.

http://illinoismeteorites.com/mendotawrongsforsale.htm

You can also contact him here directly. Have fun!


Joe Kerchner      illinoismeteorites at gmail.com

Not too often you come across material that looks so promising like Joe did but still turns out to not be the real McCoy. This is the sort of item that is fun to add to a collection. All my best!

--AL Mitterling
Mitterling Meteorites

______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



      
______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



      



From michael at rocksfromspace.org  Wed Dec  9 22:29:02 2009
From: michael at rocksfromspace.org (Michael Johnson)
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 19:29:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December 10,
	2009
Message-ID: <778748399.9881260415742171.JavaMail.root@mbs1.homesteadmail.com>

http://www.rocksfromspace.org/December_10_2009.html



From minador at yahoo.com  Wed Dec  9 22:30:00 2009
From: minador at yahoo.com (Mark Bowling)
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 19:30:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Libyan (looks like a) crater
In-Reply-To: <20091210014356.76A4010564@mailwash5.pair.com>
Message-ID: <655469.96232.qm@web54501.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I think the same about the sedimentary origin Bob.

I hadn't thought about lightning and fulgurite idea.  The munitions theory seems very plausible too.  Still wondering what region it's in...

Mark

--- On Wed, 12/9/09, Bob Loeffler <bobl at peaktopeak.com> wrote:

> From: Bob Loeffler <bobl at peaktopeak.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Libyan (looks like a) crater
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Wednesday, December 9, 2009, 6:43 PM
> That is interesting.? I wonder
> how deep it is if someone walked to the
> middle of it and scooped the sand out?? Maybe it's a
> highly eroded impact
> crater that has been filled in with sand over the years.
> 
> The rock looks like a sedimentary conglomerate of sand and
> some darker
> material.? I wouldn't call it "fused", but I'm not an
> expert geologist.
> What if that was a pool of water a long time ago and it got
> hit by
> lightning?? The sand around the edge of the water
> wouldn't fuse as much as a
> fulgurite would (since the water would distribute the
> electrical current
> throughout the pool), but maybe there would be enough
> electrical current to
> partially fuse it together?? Again, I'm not an
> expert.? Just guessing.? :-)
> 
> Bob Loeffler
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com]
> On Behalf Of Mark
> Bowling
> Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 11:39 AM
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com;
> Randy Korotev
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Libyan (looks like a) crater
> 
> Randy,
> 
> It does look like a crater!? I wouldn't assume it's
> related to LDG per se,
> as that glass is found in Egypt.? Did he give a rough
> indication of where in
> Libya?? Wouldn?t an impact site for LDG be a bit
> larger in scale?? The
> sample looks pretty interesting, but it could be
> sedimentary in nature
> because, just looking at the photo, the tiny grains don?t
> look melted.? I
> would be excited if I found such a feature.? Hard to
> say just from photos.
> 
> How about the Sahara explorers ? have you seen many
> similar features in the
> desert?
> 
> 
> Thanks for sharing!
> 
> Mark B.
> Vail, AZ
> 
> --- On Wed, 12/9/09, Randy Korotev <korotev at wustl.edu>
> wrote:
> 
> > From: Randy Korotev <korotev at wustl.edu>
> > Subject: [meteorite-list] Libyan (looks like a)
> crater
> > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > Date: Wednesday, December 9, 2009, 8:21 AM
> > Dear List:
> > 
> > I received this intriguing e-mail today from someone
> I
> > don't know.
> > 
> > =========================
> > 
> > Dear Randy, I am a geophysicist and had a recent trip
> on
> > Libyan desert for campaign of geophysical
> investigations,
> > mostly GPR and Geoelectric tomography. Going back to
> the
> > camp I found at sunset ?due to low angle light-
> something
> > strange on the flat desert surface.
> > 
> > I found a perfect circular crater with melt sand
> scattered
> > around . sand grains are melt and embedding larger
> quartz
> > grains. In my opinion that?s a impact crater and
> sand is
> > melt because of the heat wave. Larger grains had no
> time to
> > melt .
> > 
> > That melt rock has a black matrix-nothing like that in
> the
> > area, also there are no similar structures in that
> flat,
> > flat flat? desrt surface, sand is only silica and
> > quartz grain and no dark matrix can be seen for
> kilometers.
> > 
> > I made a few geophysics on the spot and found big
> electric
> > anomalies and very anomalous readings of Geoelectric
> > values.
> > 
> > I took a few samples of melt rock ?very heavy
> really.
> > 
> > I am posting a few photos of the crater.
> > 
> > I have another stone found at 2500 m on the bed of a
> melt
> > glacier, same story, that?s not a stone of the area,
> it is
> > like a fuse, heavy and black inside with a very
> aerodynamic
> > shape, I will mail you a photo ( after reading once
> more
> > your recommendations) if interested . for sure not a
> human
> > artifact or an original stone of the area.
> > 
> > Sorry to disturb,
> > ...
> > =========================
> > I put the photos here:
> > 
> > http://meteorites.wustl.edu/meteorwrongs/libyan_crater.htm
> > 
> > The round thing in the desert looks something like a
> > crater.? Maybe it's a bomb crater.? Maybe it's a
> > meteorite impact crater.? The rock doesn't look like
> > samples of Libyan desert glass that I've seen.? I
> don't
> > know the LDG story well.? Has there ever been a
> crater
> > associated with the glass?
> > 
> > 
> > Randy Korotev
> > Saint Louis, MO
> > korotev at wustl.edu
> > 
> > 
> > ______________________________________________
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> > 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
> Version: 9.0.709 / Virus Database: 270.14.98/2552 - Release
> Date: 12/09/09
> 00:32:00
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


From epgrondine at yahoo.com  Wed Dec  9 22:44:50 2009
From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine)
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 19:44:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Willamette
Message-ID: <421289.31108.qm@web36908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Darryl - 

May I suggest to you that perhaps it would be best to find a buyer for the Willamette piece who wanted a tax write off for gifting it back to the Grand Ronde peoples? I don't know their financial situation, or plans, but I would suggest contacting their elders as well before doing anything.

E.P. Grondine
Man and Impact in the Americas


      


From meteoritefinder at yahoo.com  Wed Dec  9 22:48:14 2009
From: meteoritefinder at yahoo.com (Robert Woolard)
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 19:48:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Spaceweather Spiral
Message-ID: <476465.31230.qm@web39607.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

All, 

?  Looks like the mystery has been solved. Spiraling out-of-control-rocket. I'm sure that's what it was. But, you have to admit... that's not nearly as exciting as if it had been some mad-scientist/alien/etc., trying to open a wormhole in space with a giant laser beam or something.???;-)?  ( I wouldn't doubt this footage showing up in some cheap sci-fi movie as the "special effects" for just such a thing.)

? Sure wish I had seen that in person, though. It must have been spectacular.? 

? Thanks to all for their replies and additional posts on the subject. 

? Best wishes,
? Robert 





      


From darryl at dof3.com  Wed Dec  9 23:01:39 2009
From: darryl at dof3.com (Darryl Pitt)
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 23:01:39 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December
	10, 2009
In-Reply-To: <778748399.9881260415742171.JavaMail.root@mbs1.homesteadmail.com>
References: <778748399.9881260415742171.JavaMail.root@mbs1.homesteadmail.com>
Message-ID: <ED6D0AFE-FA45-48B2-AC2F-CAE962E2C6B6@dof3.com>


great rock.  great photo.



On Dec 9, 2009, at 10:29 PM, Michael Johnson wrote:

> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/December_10_2009.html
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From mail at mhmeteorites.com  Wed Dec  9 23:04:50 2009
From: mail at mhmeteorites.com (Matt Morgan)
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 04:04:50 +0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] Willamette
Message-ID: <1131918709-1260417888-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-663420888-@bda667.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

FYI, I offered the GR a generous slice of my Willamette and they didn't even respond to me.  If I were Darryl, I wouldn't even bother. 

Matt Morgan
------Original Message------
From: E.P. Grondine
Sender: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Willamette
Sent: Dec 9, 2009 8:44 PM

Darryl - 

May I suggest to you that perhaps it would be best to find a buyer for the Willamette piece who wanted a tax write off for gifting it back to the Grand Ronde peoples? I don't know their financial situation, or plans, but I would suggest contacting their elders as well before doing anything.

E.P. Grondine
Man and Impact in the Americas


      
______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


----------------------
Matt Morgan
Mile High Meteorites
http://www.mhmeteorites.com
P.O. Box 151293
Lakewood, CO 80215 USA

From axelsson at acc.umu.se  Wed Dec  9 23:02:44 2009
From: axelsson at acc.umu.se (=?windows-1252?Q?G=F6ran_Axelsson?=)
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 05:02:44 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] Libyan (looks like a) crater
In-Reply-To: <200912091520.nB9FKSW10265@levee.wustl.edu>
References: <200912091520.nB9FKSW10265@levee.wustl.edu>
Message-ID: <4B2072E4.2050504@acc.umu.se>

It is obviously a crater but the question is if it was produced by a
meteorite or by human hand. As for the sample he collected it could be
an accretion layer exposed by the cratering event, probably iron
hydroxides (rust) and other mineral salts that have cemented the sand
grains together.

The crater seems to be way too small to have the energy needed to melt
the sand. It looks to be in the size of some of the bigger Sikhote-Alin
craters. That brings an interesting question, what is the smallest
crater known with impact glass?

Ask him to crack the sample and check if the sand is held together with
a glass or by relatively soft material. If the sand had melted it would
have about the same hardness as quartz.

I'm no geology expert but I have collected minerals for 15 years. Over
the years I have met a lot of professional geologists and I'm surprised
of how bad many are of identifying minerals in the field. Probably
because geology today is often about regional processes and large scale
mapping and seldom about the small details.

Okay, with that disclaimer I'll even make a few guesses.
1. Meteorite crater. There will probably not be may traces left of it
unless it was an iron meteorite, compare with the crater of Carancas.
2. Bomb crater. Pieces of metal should be easily found by digging the
crater or using a metal detector around the crater. It would take a
large bomb to make a crater this big but it could be a crater from WW2.
3. Some one thought that this could be a good place for a spring, found
a promising place and added a large explosive charge in a hole to dig it
fast. If there are a water table below the surface it could also explain
the concretions and the electrical anomaly.

Interesting anyhow and I would go there to check it out if I wasn't so
close to the arctic circle.

:-)

/G?ran

Randy Korotev wrote:
> Dear List:
>
> I received this intriguing e-mail today from someone I don't know.
>
> =========================
>
> Dear Randy, I am a geophysicist and had a recent trip on Libyan desert 
> for campaign of geophysical investigations, mostly GPR and Geoelectric 
> tomography. Going back to the camp I found at sunset ?due to low angle 
> light- something strange on the flat desert surface.
>
> I found a perfect circular crater with melt sand scattered around . 
> sand grains are melt and embedding larger quartz grains. In my opinion 
> that?s a impact crater and sand is melt because of the heat wave. 
> Larger grains had no time to melt .
>
> That melt rock has a black matrix-nothing like that in the area, also 
> there are no similar structures in that flat, flat flat desrt surface, 
> sand is only silica and quartz grain and no dark matrix can be seen 
> for kilometers.
>
> I made a few geophysics on the spot and found big electric anomalies 
> and very anomalous readings of Geoelectric values.
>
> I took a few samples of melt rock ?very heavy really.
>
> I am posting a few photos of the crater.
>
> I have another stone found at 2500 m on the bed of a melt glacier, 
> same story, that?s not a stone of the area, it is like a fuse, heavy 
> and black inside with a very aerodynamic shape, I will mail you a 
> photo ( after reading once more your recommendations) if interested . 
> for sure not a human artifact or an original stone of the area.
>
> Sorry to disturb,
> ...
> =========================
> I put the photos here:
>
> http://meteorites.wustl.edu/meteorwrongs/libyan_crater.htm
>
> The round thing in the desert looks something like a crater. Maybe 
> it's a bomb crater. Maybe it's a meteorite impact crater. The rock 
> doesn't look like samples of Libyan desert glass that I've seen. I 
> don't know the LDG story well. Has there ever been a crater associated 
> with the glass?
>
>
> Randy Korotev
> Saint Louis, MO
> korotev at wustl.edu
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>




From nakhladog at comcast.net  Wed Dec  9 23:14:49 2009
From: nakhladog at comcast.net (Rob Wesel)
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 20:14:49 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Willamette
References: <1131918709-1260417888-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-663420888-@bda667.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <77469895E05A4CDF9A2D680B99055694@windows9bb74fe>

They (The Confederated Tribes of the Grand Ronde Community) have plenty of 
money to afford it if they wanted it. Fully blown casino with 250 rooms, 
Oregon's number one tourist attraction last year, eclipsing the arts, 
beaches, mountains, deserts. The stink a few years ago was political 
grandstanding.

Rob Wesel
www.nakhladogmeteorites.com
www.facebook.com/nakhladog
------------------
We are the music makers...
and we are the dreamers of the dreams.
Willy Wonka, 1971


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Matt Morgan" <mail at mhmeteorites.com>
To: "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine at yahoo.com>; 
<meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com>; 
<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 8:04 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Willamette


> FYI, I offered the GR a generous slice of my Willamette and they didn't 
> even respond to me.  If I were Darryl, I wouldn't even bother.
>
> Matt Morgan
> ------Original Message------
> From: E.P. Grondine
> Sender: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Willamette
> Sent: Dec 9, 2009 8:44 PM
>
> Darryl -
>
> May I suggest to you that perhaps it would be best to find a buyer for the 
> Willamette piece who wanted a tax write off for gifting it back to the 
> Grand Ronde peoples? I don't know their financial situation, or plans, but 
> I would suggest contacting their elders as well before doing anything.
>
> E.P. Grondine
> Man and Impact in the Americas
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>
> ----------------------
> Matt Morgan
> Mile High Meteorites
> http://www.mhmeteorites.com
> P.O. Box 151293
> Lakewood, CO 80215 USA
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From countdeiro at earthlink.net  Thu Dec 10 00:11:28 2009
From: countdeiro at earthlink.net (countdeiro at earthlink.net)
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 00:11:28 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Willamette
Message-ID: <19110933.1260421888274.JavaMail.root@wamui-june.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

The Grand Ronde band of American Indians own the largest and most profitable hotel/casino in Oregon. Anybody who is at least 1/8th GR gets a percentage every month . I wouldn't bother either.
Count Deiro  

-----Original Message-----
>From: Matt Morgan <mail at mhmeteorites.com>
>Sent: Dec 9, 2009 11:04 PM
>To: "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine at yahoo.com>, meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Willamette
>
>FYI, I offered the GR a generous slice of my Willamette and they didn't even respond to me.  If I were Darryl, I wouldn't even bother. 
>
>Matt Morgan
>------Original Message------
>From: E.P. Grondine
>Sender: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
>To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Willamette
>Sent: Dec 9, 2009 8:44 PM
>
>Darryl - 
>
>May I suggest to you that perhaps it would be best to find a buyer for the Willamette piece who wanted a tax write off for gifting it back to the Grand Ronde peoples? I don't know their financial situation, or plans, but I would suggest contacting their elders as well before doing anything.
>
>E.P. Grondine
>Man and Impact in the Americas
>
>
>      
>______________________________________________
>http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>Meteorite-list mailing list
>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>
>----------------------
>Matt Morgan
>Mile High Meteorites
>http://www.mhmeteorites.com
>P.O. Box 151293
>Lakewood, CO 80215 USA
>______________________________________________
>http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>Meteorite-list mailing list
>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From geeg48 at msn.com  Thu Dec 10 00:49:00 2009
From: geeg48 at msn.com (GREG LINDH)
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 22:49:00 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] OTish be careful with those
	metorite-finding	magnets!
In-Reply-To: <jho0i55qelvsnb1e3du5vas6ddct68sraf@4ax.com>
References: <915363.82048.qm@web39607.mail.mud.yahoo.com>,
	<jho0i55qelvsnb1e3du5vas6ddct68sraf@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <BLU125-W29D29C27A13CBB6054BDA6C98D0@phx.gbl>


 
    MERCY!
 
 
 

> From: cynapse at charter.net
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 21:52:28 -0500
> Subject: [meteorite-list] OTish be careful with those metorite-finding magnets!
> 
> http://magnetnerd.com/Neodymium%20Magnets/Dirks%20Accident.htm?1
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 		 	   		  

From darryl at dof3.com  Thu Dec 10 01:05:14 2009
From: darryl at dof3.com (Darryl Pitt)
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 01:05:14 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Willamette
In-Reply-To: <19110933.1260421888274.JavaMail.root@wamui-june.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <19110933.1260421888274.JavaMail.root@wamui-june.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3ED24BBB-A01B-44CF-BE0F-7157395BD531@dof3.com>





Dear List and E.P.:

Long ago I've come to respect the GR's belief that it is wrong to  
participate in a financial value being placed on a revered and sacred  
object---even though I've personally believed that a valuation of such  
items is only a reflection of the value ascribed by non-tribal members.

Anyway, let's use your logic, E.P.  Don't you think if the GR was  
sincerely interested in a Willamette acquisition they would have been  
proactive and reached out to a benefactor by now?  Please, take a  
moment and think about it.

And then please also consider that when the AMNH offered to provide a  
~10 kg specimen to the GR, this was also rejected.

In short, it would seem compelling the GR is not really so interested  
in a large specimen of Willamette---and that's okay!


Respectfully and Peacefully,

Darryl



Darryl


On Dec 10, 2009, at 12:11 AM, countdeiro at earthlink.net wrote:

> The Grand Ronde band of American Indians own the largest and most  
> profitable hotel/casino in Oregon. Anybody who is at least 1/8th GR  
> gets a percentage every month . I wouldn't bother either.
> Count Deiro
>
> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Matt Morgan <mail at mhmeteorites.com>
>> Sent: Dec 9, 2009 11:04 PM
>> To: "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine at yahoo.com>, meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com 
>> , meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Willamette
>>
>> FYI, I offered the GR a generous slice of my Willamette and they  
>> didn't even respond to me.  If I were Darryl, I wouldn't even bother.
>>
>> Matt Morgan
>> ------Original Message------
>> From: E.P. Grondine
>> Sender: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Willamette
>> Sent: Dec 9, 2009 8:44 PM
>>
>> Darryl -
>>
>> May I suggest to you that perhaps it would be best to find a buyer  
>> for the Willamette piece who wanted a tax write off for gifting it  
>> back to the Grand Ronde peoples? I don't know their financial  
>> situation, or plans, but I would suggest contacting their elders as  
>> well before doing anything.
>>
>> E.P. Grondine
>> Man and Impact in the Americas
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>>
>> ----------------------
>> Matt Morgan
>> Mile High Meteorites
>> http://www.mhmeteorites.com
>> P.O. Box 151293
>> Lakewood, CO 80215 USA
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From cviau at comcast.net  Thu Dec 10 04:45:34 2009
From: cviau at comcast.net (Charles Viau)
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 04:45:34 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Amazing aerieal spiral phenomenon over Norway,
	BBC Video link
In-Reply-To: <3ED24BBB-A01B-44CF-BE0F-7157395BD531@dof3.com>
References: <19110933.1260421888274.JavaMail.root@wamui-june.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<3ED24BBB-A01B-44CF-BE0F-7157395BD531@dof3.com>
Message-ID: <8AEE9B832DB2495AAAF7C0CD01EE512A@fyiserver>

Really incredible. I have never seen aerial phenomenon like this.
What could possibly cause a moving spiral high in the atmosphere?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8404991.stm?ls


Regards,
CharlyV



From azizhabibi at yahoo.com  Thu Dec 10 07:13:03 2009
From: azizhabibi at yahoo.com (habibi abdelaziz)
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 04:13:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD/ SALES OF THE LAST SPECIMEN FROM THE NAKHLITE
	NWA5790 1.7 GR AND 0.5 GR
Message-ID: <971741.19818.qm@web62002.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

HI ALL
HERE IS THE LAST SALES? OF NWA 5790?

ONE FIRST SPECIMEN? 1.7 GR PACKED IN A MEMBRANE BOX
AND A SEGOND IS 0.5 GR ALSO PACKED IN A MEMBRANE BOX
http://www.flickr.com/photos/azizhabibi/

THIS IS ?THE LAST SALES OF THE THIS RARE FIND ALL IS SOLD
SO THE FIRST COME FIRST SERVE.

ALL THE BEST AND HAPPY HOLIDAYS

AZIZ HABIBI

??? # I.M.C.A 6220




?habibi aziz 
box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco 
phone. 21235576145 
fax.21235576170</font> 


      


From meteoriteshow at free.fr  Thu Dec 10 07:22:16 2009
From: meteoriteshow at free.fr (meteoriteshow at free.fr)
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 13:22:16 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - ebay auctions ending on Saturday
Message-ID: <1260447736.4b20e7f875197@imp.free.fr>

Dear Fellow Listees,


Our ebay auctions ending on Saturday can be seen at:
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ50QQsassZmeteoriteshow

They include:

1- Al Haggounia 001 PRIM. AUB - 12.9g partslice
Partslice #010 weighing 12.9g, dimensions 76x43x2.2mm.
Cut in one of the freshest framents of Al Haggounia 001
Large & fragile partslice (fractured) displaying what is probably a ghost
chondrule in the fair grey matrix and an interesting oxydized vein.
NO BID YET!!! STILL AT $100 STARTING PRICE!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330382211346

2- DaG 945 - EUCRITE - 9.0g Slice
SLICE #10 weighing 9.0g, dimensions 46x41x1.8mm
FRESH meteorite (W1), it displays nice BLACK FUSION CRUST on the edge.
Shipped in a display box.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330382211506

3- HaH 253 - L6 - 57.2g MAIN MASS
MAIN MASS weighing 57.2g
4 pieces weighing respectively 52.8g (dimensions 40x38x23mm ), 3.2g and 1.2g (in
2 pces)
The meteorite was cut and ALL THE PIECES are proposed here (see pictures).
PLEASE NOTE THAT ALL THE PIECES ARE OFFERED HERE FOR A TOTAL WEIGHT OF 52.7g
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330382212036

4- NWA 4677 - 0.9g partslice #04 - EUCRITE
PARTSLICE #04, weighing 0.9g, dimensions ~19.9x15.1x1.3mm.
Displays 2 lithologies and nice shock veins.
Shipped in a display box (see pictures)
NO BID YET!!! STILL AT $100 STARTING PRICE!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330382212217

5- OUED EL HADJAR - 2.8g frag - WITNESSED FALL!
CRUSTED Fragment weighing 2.8g, dimensions ~24x14x7mm.
~20% FUSION CRUSTED, many tiny chondrules in fair grey matrix.
STILL AT $100 STARTING PRICE!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330382212338

6- SAH 02500 L3 - 135.0g "MONOLITH"
"Monolith" weighing 135g, dimensions: 61x47x28mm.
Varnished Enduct glued on a plexiglass stand for display.
Typical structure of SAH 02500 diplaying 2 lithologies & armoured chondrules in
a milkyway of metal flakes.
STILL AT $100 STARTING PRICE!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330382212575

Thank you very much for watching and best wishes to ALL BIDDERS!!!
Kind regards,

Frederic Beroud
http://www.meteoriteshow.com
IMCA member # 2491 (http://www.imca.cc/)


From mmurray at montrose.net  Thu Dec 10 09:03:11 2009
From: mmurray at montrose.net (Michael Murray)
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 07:03:11 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] OTish be careful with those metorite-finding
	magnets!
In-Reply-To: <jho0i55qelvsnb1e3du5vas6ddct68sraf@4ax.com>
References: <915363.82048.qm@web39607.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<jho0i55qelvsnb1e3du5vas6ddct68sraf@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <F35D0694-91D6-4A33-9892-F96D167BB0A7@montrose.net>

Good post Darren.  Good reminder.
Those were awful big magnets.  I keep the smaller ones I use well  
separated and don't mess with them once they are on my rake but even  
then I am really careful with where and how I use them.   Dirk's  
accident is a very good reminder of how unforgiving they can be.  I  
understand also that big NDIB magnets can come together with enough  
force to cause them to break, sending shards of the magnet in all  
directions. I can't see using those super big magnets for meteorite  
hunting anyway.
Mike in CO
On Dec 9, 2009, at 7:52 PM, Darren Garrison wrote:

> http://magnetnerd.com/Neodymium%20Magnets/Dirks%20Accident.htm?1
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From epgrondine at yahoo.com  Thu Dec 10 10:17:42 2009
From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine)
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 07:17:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Willamette
In-Reply-To: <3ED24BBB-A01B-44CF-BE0F-7157395BD531@dof3.com>
Message-ID: <375514.73244.qm@web36902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi Darryl, list - 

Darryl, you have my sympathy for walking into a real mess - you traded a meteorite of real value for the Willamette piece, and did not know of the problems at the time.

>From what I have seen, generally Native American spiritual guides and  leadership have a tough time dealing with anyone who would desecrate (in their view) a religious object. 

I also think that they don't know you are looking for a way out of this mess - that is why I suggest to you that you contact them, and carefully explain to them what occurred, and the current situation. They will explain to you the reasons for their rejection of the 10 kg piece, and perhaps help you in finding a good path our of the current difficulty. 

Best wishes,
E.P. Grondine
Man and Impact in the Americas


--- On Thu, 12/10/09, Darryl Pitt <darryl at dof3.com> wrote:

> From: Darryl Pitt <darryl at dof3.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Willamette
> To: countdeiro at earthlink.net
> Cc: mail at mhmeteorites.com, "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine at yahoo.com>, meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Thursday, December 10, 2009, 12:05 AM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dear List and E.P.:
> 
> Long ago I've come to respect the GR's belief that it is
> wrong to participate in a financial value being placed on a
> revered and sacred object---even though I've personally
> believed that a valuation of such items is only a reflection
> of the value ascribed by non-tribal members.
> 
> Anyway, let's use your logic, E.P.  Don't you think if
> the GR was sincerely interested in a Willamette acquisition
> they would have been proactive and reached out to a
> benefactor by now?  Please, take a moment and think
> about it.
> 
> And then please also consider that when the AMNH offered to
> provide a ~10 kg specimen to the GR, this was also
> rejected.
> 
> In short, it would seem compelling the GR is not really so
> interested in a large specimen of Willamette---and that's
> okay!
> 
> 
> Respectfully and Peacefully,
> 
> Darryl
> 
> 
> 
> Darryl
> 
> 
> On Dec 10, 2009, at 12:11 AM, countdeiro at earthlink.net
> wrote:
> 
> > The Grand Ronde band of American Indians own the
> largest and most profitable hotel/casino in Oregon. Anybody
> who is at least 1/8th GR gets a percentage every month . I
> wouldn't bother either.
> > Count Deiro
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Matt Morgan <mail at mhmeteorites.com>
> >> Sent: Dec 9, 2009 11:04 PM
> >> To: "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine at yahoo.com>,
> meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com,
> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Willamette
> >> 
> >> FYI, I offered the GR a generous slice of my
> Willamette and they didn't even respond to me.  If I
> were Darryl, I wouldn't even bother.
> >> 
> >> Matt Morgan
> >> ------Original Message------
> >> From: E.P. Grondine
> >> Sender: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> >> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Willamette
> >> Sent: Dec 9, 2009 8:44 PM
> >> 
> >> Darryl -
> >> 
> >> May I suggest to you that perhaps it would be best
> to find a buyer for the Willamette piece who wanted a tax
> write off for gifting it back to the Grand Ronde peoples? I
> don't know their financial situation, or plans, but I would
> suggest contacting their elders as well before doing
> anything.
> >> 
> >> E.P. Grondine
> >> Man and Impact in the Americas
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> ______________________________________________
> >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> >> Meteorite-list mailing list
> >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >> 
> >> 
> >> ----------------------
> >> Matt Morgan
> >> Mile High Meteorites
> >> http://www.mhmeteorites.com
> >> P.O. Box 151293
> >> Lakewood, CO 80215 USA
> >> ______________________________________________
> >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> >> Meteorite-list mailing list
> >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> > 
> > ______________________________________________
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 
> 


      


From almitt2 at localnet.com  Thu Dec 10 10:29:27 2009
From: almitt2 at localnet.com (almitt2 at localnet.com)
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 10:29:27 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: eBay Auctions Going
Message-ID: <20091210102927.whus6lk38resocos@webmail.localnet.com>

Greetings to those interested,

I have the following items ending in about 24 hours to four days on 
ebay. Some nice items for those on your Christmas list.

Oriented Millbillillie, Main Class Meteorite Kit, Lafayette Indiana, 
Big Nice whole 11.57 kilo Gibeon and 170.8 gram whole Gibeon, nice 
Allende, Mexico slice, Tambo medium octahedrite, more Milton Missouri, 
more Norton Co., and historical Lost City, Ok, Murchison, Australia 
micro specimen in nice plastic display box and starting at .99 cents 
each.

See Items here: http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/almittmet

All my best!!

--AL Mitterling
Mitterling Meteorites



From epgrondine at yahoo.com  Thu Dec 10 10:29:48 2009
From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine)
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 07:29:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Willamette
In-Reply-To: <19110933.1260421888274.JavaMail.root@wamui-june.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <439394.65762.qm@web36903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Matt -

Just my opinion but it is likely that the slicing was a further desecration in their view, so their lack of response comes as no surprise. 

I don't think Count Deiro's advice is very good. I would suggest contacting them again - perhaps parts of the slice could be used by them in an appropriate manner.

Ed

--- On Wed, 12/9/09, countdeiro at earthlink.net <countdeiro at earthlink.net> wrote:

> From: countdeiro at earthlink.net <countdeiro at earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Willamette
> To: mail at mhmeteorites.com, "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine at yahoo.com>, meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Wednesday, December 9, 2009, 11:11 PM
> The Grand Ronde band of American
> Indians own the largest and most profitable hotel/casino in
> Oregon. Anybody who is at least 1/8th GR gets a percentage
> every month . I wouldn't bother either.
> Count Deiro  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: Matt Morgan <mail at mhmeteorites.com>
> >Sent: Dec 9, 2009 11:04 PM
> >To: "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine at yahoo.com>,
> meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com,
> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Willamette
> >
> >FYI, I offered the GR a generous slice of my Willamette
> and they didn't even respond to me.  If I were Darryl,
> I wouldn't even bother. 
> >
> >Matt Morgan
> >------Original Message------
> >From: E.P. Grondine
> >Sender: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> >To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Willamette
> >Sent: Dec 9, 2009 8:44 PM
> >
> >Darryl - 
> >
> >May I suggest to you that perhaps it would be best to
> find a buyer for the Willamette piece who wanted a tax write
> off for gifting it back to the Grand Ronde peoples? I don't
> know their financial situation, or plans, but I would
> suggest contacting their elders as well before doing
> anything.
> >
> >E.P. Grondine
> >Man and Impact in the Americas
> >
> >
> >      
> >______________________________________________
> >http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> >Meteorite-list mailing list
> >Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >
> >
> >----------------------
> >Matt Morgan
> >Mile High Meteorites
> >http://www.mhmeteorites.com
> >P.O. Box 151293
> >Lakewood, CO 80215 USA
> >______________________________________________
> >http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> >Meteorite-list mailing list
> >Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 
> 


      


From epgrondine at yahoo.com  Thu Dec 10 11:04:54 2009
From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine)
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 08:04:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Willamette
In-Reply-To: <77469895E05A4CDF9A2D680B99055694@windows9bb74fe>
Message-ID: <158846.9733.qm@web36907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi Rob - 

You need to consider that the GR consider Willamette stolen goods, and not only that, stolen religious goods. You call it "grandstanding". If the building had not been constructed around Willamette, they would have legally fought for its return. The agreement they struck shows good will on their part; perhaps you might want to consider that. 

You resent their success with their casino, but consider that in their view
some of the best parts of the entire state of Oregon were stolen from them as well.

Sometimes peoples love for meteorites leads them to do things they would not otherwise do. I would ask that you consider your words more carefully.

Ed

--- On Wed, 12/9/09, Rob Wesel <nakhladog at comcast.net> wrote:

> From: Rob Wesel <nakhladog at comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Willamette
> To: mail at mhmeteorites.com, "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine at yahoo.com>, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Wednesday, December 9, 2009, 10:14 PM
> They (The Confederated Tribes of the
> Grand Ronde Community) have plenty of money to afford it if
> they wanted it. Fully blown casino with 250 rooms, Oregon's
> number one tourist attraction last year, eclipsing the arts,
> beaches, mountains, deserts. The stink a few years ago was
> political grandstanding.
> 
> Rob Wesel
> www.nakhladogmeteorites.com
> www.facebook.com/nakhladog
> ------------------
> We are the music makers...
> and we are the dreamers of the dreams.
> Willy Wonka, 1971
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matt Morgan" <mail at mhmeteorites.com>
> To: "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine at yahoo.com>;
> <meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com>;
> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 8:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Willamette
> 
> 
> > FYI, I offered the GR a generous slice of my
> Willamette and they didn't even respond to me.  If I
> were Darryl, I wouldn't even bother.
> > 
> > Matt Morgan
> > ------Original Message------
> > From: E.P. Grondine
> > Sender: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Willamette
> > Sent: Dec 9, 2009 8:44 PM
> > 
> > Darryl -
> > 
> > May I suggest to you that perhaps it would be best to
> find a buyer for the Willamette piece who wanted a tax write
> off for gifting it back to the Grand Ronde peoples? I don't
> know their financial situation, or plans, but I would
> suggest contacting their elders as well before doing
> anything.
> > 
> > E.P. Grondine
> > Man and Impact in the Americas
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ______________________________________________
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> > 
> > 
> > ----------------------
> > Matt Morgan
> > Mile High Meteorites
> > http://www.mhmeteorites.com
> > P.O. Box 151293
> > Lakewood, CO 80215 USA
> > ______________________________________________
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 
> 
> 


      


From korotev at wustl.edu  Thu Dec 10 11:11:22 2009
From: korotev at wustl.edu (Randy Korotev)
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 10:11:22 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Libyan (looks like a) crater
In-Reply-To: <4B2072E4.2050504@acc.umu.se>
References: <200912091520.nB9FKSW10265@levee.wustl.edu>
	<4B2072E4.2050504@acc.umu.se>
Message-ID: <200912101610.nBAGApW13684@levee.wustl.edu>

List:

Thanks for all the comments.  The finder, an Italian gephysicist, 
sent me a figure that allows me to say that the feature is probably 
within a kilometer of the center of this map:

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Tazirbu,+Libya&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&hl=en&cd=1&geocode=FS56iAEdLQlAAQ&split=0&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=23.875,57.630033&hq=&hnear=Tazirbu,+Libya&ll=25.788299,21.77207&spn=0.059198,0.074673&t=h&z=14

It's along the Great Man-Made River project in Libya (a long way from 
the crater field in Egypt that Anne mentioned).

The finder also insists that it's not a bomb crater because there's 
no metal shrapnel.


Randy Korotev
Saint Louis, MO
korotev at wustl.edu 




From grf2 at comcast.net  Thu Dec 10 11:30:32 2009
From: grf2 at comcast.net (Jerry Flaherty)
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 11:30:32 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Amazing aerieal spiral phenomenon over Norway,
	BBC Video link
References: <19110933.1260421888274.JavaMail.root@wamui-june.atl.sa.earthlink.net><3ED24BBB-A01B-44CF-BE0F-7157395BD531@dof3.com>
	<8AEE9B832DB2495AAAF7C0CD01EE512A@fyiserver>
Message-ID: <2009A1D4675C4594A500E84A9263BA65@ASUS>

THE RUSSIAN'S DID IT!!!!!!!!!!!!

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Charles Viau" <cviau at comcast.net>
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 4:45 AM
To: <meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com>; 
<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>; <mail at mhmeteorites.com>
Subject: [meteorite-list] Amazing aerieal spiral phenomenon over Norway,BBC 
Video link

> Really incredible. I have never seen aerial phenomenon like this.
> What could possibly cause a moving spiral high in the atmosphere?
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8404991.stm?ls
>
>
> Regards,
> CharlyV
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From grf2 at comcast.net  Thu Dec 10 11:35:07 2009
From: grf2 at comcast.net (Jerry Flaherty)
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 11:35:07 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw:  Spaceweather sighting - off topic
Message-ID: <BBBD9247AAC24A79A4211EEF16F6CF32@ASUS>



--------------------------------------------------
TOLD YOU IT WAS A UFO!!
From: "Jerry Flaherty" <grf2 at comcast.net>
Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 9:40 PM
To: <meteoritefinder at yahoo.com>; <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Spaceweather sighting - off topic

> Wow that's weird.
> definitely UFO's
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: <meteoritefinder at yahoo.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 3:55 PM
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Spaceweather sighting - off topic
>
>> Hello List.
>>
>>  Off topic, but hopefully of interest. See below the link to the 
>> Spaceweather posting for today. Check out the pretty weird visual 
>> sighting over Norway, etc.
>>
>>   www.spaceweather.com/
>>
>>  Best,
>>  Robert Woolard
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From grf2 at comcast.net  Thu Dec 10 11:36:39 2009
From: grf2 at comcast.net (Jerry Flaherty)
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 11:36:39 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: Amazing aerieal spiral phenomenon over Norway,
	BBC Video link
Message-ID: <6CBF06C9382C4A04A53FD42D0FA497E0@ASUS>



--------------------------------------------------
From: "Jerry Flaherty" <grf2 at comcast.net>
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 11:30 AM
To: "Charles Viau" <cviau at comcast.net>; 
<meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com>; 
<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>; <mail at mhmeteorites.com>
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Amazing aerieal spiral phenomenon over 
Norway,BBC Video link

> THE RUSSIAN'S DID IT!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Charles Viau" <cviau at comcast.net>
> Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 4:45 AM
> To: <meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com>; 
> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>; <mail at mhmeteorites.com>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Amazing aerieal spiral phenomenon over 
> Norway,BBC Video link
>
>> Really incredible. I have never seen aerial phenomenon like this.
>> What could possibly cause a moving spiral high in the atmosphere?
>>
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8404991.stm?ls
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>> CharlyV
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From lgarvie at asu.edu  Thu Dec 10 11:32:25 2009
From: lgarvie at asu.edu (Laurence Garvie)
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 09:32:25 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] looking for picture of Count Widmanstatten
In-Reply-To: <mailman.35.1260378045.52645.meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
References: <mailman.35.1260378045.52645.meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
Message-ID: <0757A106-607B-4634-96F7-87687CE1AF8E@asu.edu>

I am looking for a picture of Count Alois von Beckh Widmanst?tten. If  
anyone has one or know where one is can they please email me.

Thanks

Laurence Garvie
CMS
ASU

From Midwest at Meteorman.org  Thu Dec 10 14:08:59 2009
From: Midwest at Meteorman.org (Timothy  Heitz)
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 13:08:59 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Catch the meteor shower on Sunday night
References: <mailman.35.1260378045.52645.meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
	<0757A106-607B-4634-96F7-87687CE1AF8E@asu.edu>
Message-ID: <D3917BD96A284B6687AE0F1AD21EF333@den>

Catch the meteor shower on Sunday night

By PRISCILLA DIELENBERG



GEORGE TOWN: Local astronomy buffs who want to catch this year's Geminid 
meteor shower should remember to look to the skies this Sunday night.

Universiti Sains Malaysia's Astronomy and Atmospheric Science Research Unit 
lecturer Associate Prof Dr Chong Hon Yew said the annual shower was visible 
in the night sky to the naked eye in all directions.

This year's shower should peak at 1pm local time on Monday, visible to 
observers in the western hemisphere in North America and South America.

"However, the Geminid shower has a broad peak of about one-and-a-half days 
and so, with good weather permitting and a waning moon, many meteors should 
be visible on Sunday night," he said.

The Geminid meteor shower occurs every year between Dec 9 and 19, reaching 
its peak on Dec 13 and 14.

Dr Chong said the source of the Geminid meteors was from the asteroid 3200 
Phaethon.

"Usually, meteor showers are caused by the debris of comets burning up in 
the Earth's atmosphere."

He also invited the public to join his team's observations for free at the 
field next to the unit's premises within USM, or the Pearl of Orion 
Observatory next to the Bukit Genting Hill Leisure Park and Restaurant in 
Balik Pulau, or the Lim Choon Kiat Private Observatory near Pulau Betong on 
Sunday night.

"We will be observing the shower from 9pm all the way to morning but the 
public can come and go any time as they please," he said



 All the best,

Tim Heitz

MIDWEST METEORITES - http://www.meteorman.org/









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From darryl at dof3.com  Thu Dec 10 15:27:01 2009
From: darryl at dof3.com (Darryl Pitt)
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 15:27:01 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Willamette
In-Reply-To: <375514.73244.qm@web36902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <375514.73244.qm@web36902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <A2C19747-21FA-43E4-A80E-C42DE7E39FC8@dof3.com>




Hi Again, E.P.,

Thanks for the inherent goodness in your note.  I'm sorry you're being  
rebutted by so many on the list; it's certainly not the intention to  
gang up on you.

Similarly, this really isn't about me or what I should do.  At issue  
has been the demonstrable interest on the part of the GR to acquire  
Willamette specimens.

Respectfully,  I simply cannot accept that the GR leadership, the same  
leadership which saw fit to merge the contradictory notions of a  
"Sacred Mountain" and a "Casino" into what is now the "Sacred Mountain  
Casino" would find it awkward and have a "tough time" dealing with me  
or Matt.

This could have readily been sorted out. The Grand Ronde and/or the  
American Museum of Natural History could have easily helped provide a  
solution if motivated to do so, but apparently there was no such  
motivation and I was left dangling in the wind.

You are mistaken in your speculation that the GR has been unaware of  
my interests in finding a happy resolution. That's just not accurate.  
I hope you are now clear as it regards the GR's insufficient interest  
in acquiring portions of the meteorite---and again, that's okay.

Let's please agree to move on. This is an old story which is fraught  
with loaded issues which are currently irreconcilable.  All sides of  
the story have been told and all intentions and agendas have been  
revealed.


All the best, truly,


Darryl



On Dec 10, 2009, at 10:17 AM, E.P. Grondine wrote:

> Hi Darryl, list -
>
> Darryl, you have my sympathy for walking into a real mess - you  
> traded a meteorite of real value for the Willamette piece, and did  
> not know of the problems at the time.
>
> From what I have seen, generally Native American spiritual guides  
> and  leadership have a tough time dealing with anyone who would  
> desecrate (in their view) a religious object.
>
> I also think that they don't know you are looking for a way out of  
> this mess - that is why I suggest to you that you contact them, and  
> carefully explain to them what occurred, and the current situation.  
> They will explain to you the reasons for their rejection of the 10  
> kg piece, and perhaps help you in finding a good path our of the  
> current difficulty.
>
> Best wishes,
> E.P. Grondine
> Man and Impact in the Americas
>
>
> --- On Thu, 12/10/09, Darryl Pitt <darryl at dof3.com> wrote:
>
>> From: Darryl Pitt <darryl at dof3.com>
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Willamette
>> To: countdeiro at earthlink.net
>> Cc: mail at mhmeteorites.com, "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine at yahoo.com>, meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com 
>> , meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Date: Thursday, December 10, 2009, 12:05 AM
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Dear List and E.P.:
>>
>> Long ago I've come to respect the GR's belief that it is
>> wrong to participate in a financial value being placed on a
>> revered and sacred object---even though I've personally
>> believed that a valuation of such items is only a reflection
>> of the value ascribed by non-tribal members.
>>
>> Anyway, let's use your logic, E.P.  Don't you think if
>> the GR was sincerely interested in a Willamette acquisition
>> they would have been proactive and reached out to a
>> benefactor by now?  Please, take a moment and think
>> about it.
>>
>> And then please also consider that when the AMNH offered to
>> provide a ~10 kg specimen to the GR, this was also
>> rejected.
>>
>> In short, it would seem compelling the GR is not really so
>> interested in a large specimen of Willamette---and that's
>> okay!
>>
>>
>> Respectfully and Peacefully,
>>
>> Darryl
>>
>>
>>
>> Darryl
>>
>>
>> On Dec 10, 2009, at 12:11 AM, countdeiro at earthlink.net
>> wrote:
>>
>>> The Grand Ronde band of American Indians own the
>> largest and most profitable hotel/casino in Oregon. Anybody
>> who is at least 1/8th GR gets a percentage every month . I
>> wouldn't bother either.
>>> Count Deiro
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Matt Morgan <mail at mhmeteorites.com>
>>>> Sent: Dec 9, 2009 11:04 PM
>>>> To: "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine at yahoo.com>,
>> meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com,
>> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Willamette
>>>>
>>>> FYI, I offered the GR a generous slice of my
>> Willamette and they didn't even respond to me.  If I
>> were Darryl, I wouldn't even bother.
>>>>
>>>> Matt Morgan
>>>> ------Original Message------
>>>> From: E.P. Grondine
>>>> Sender: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Willamette
>>>> Sent: Dec 9, 2009 8:44 PM
>>>>
>>>> Darryl -
>>>>
>>>> May I suggest to you that perhaps it would be best
>> to find a buyer for the Willamette piece who wanted a tax
>> write off for gifting it back to the Grand Ronde peoples? I
>> don't know their financial situation, or plans, but I would
>> suggest contacting their elders as well before doing
>> anything.
>>>>
>>>> E.P. Grondine
>>>> Man and Impact in the Americas
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----------------------
>>>> Matt Morgan
>>>> Mile High Meteorites
>>>> http://www.mhmeteorites.com
>>>> P.O. Box 151293
>>>> Lakewood, CO 80215 USA
>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>>
>
>
>



From epgrondine at yahoo.com  Thu Dec 10 15:51:03 2009
From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine)
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 12:51:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Willamette
In-Reply-To: <A2C19747-21FA-43E4-A80E-C42DE7E39FC8@dof3.com>
Message-ID: <648048.95426.qm@web36905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi Darryl - 

I must say that your own correspondence on this this year has been much better than last year's, I wish that others would follow your lead in keeping a civil tone, and limiting their derogatory comments. (This is not meant for you, but I am pretty sure that the GR would be very happy to trade their casino for the lands that were taken from them.)

I agree with you about moving on, as I have said about all I want to say on this, but note one last thing:

The agreement between the AMNH and the GR recognized GR's ownership rights.
If in the future, the GR decides to use money from that casino to pursue this, it may leave purchasers in a bind, just as it left you in a bind, and those future binds may come back to haunt you again. Let me emphasize, their lack of current response should not be taken as any indication of their future plans.

Again, I would urge you contact them again, and give them the full particulars of what occurred to you; perhaps if the GR leaders do not offer you a way out, the AMNH leaders may. 

You have my sympathy for the position you have inadvertently found yourself in, "dangling in the wind", and for the work that lies before you in finding a way out of it.

Best wishes,
Ed

--- On Thu, 12/10/09, Darryl Pitt <darryl at dof3.com> wrote:

> From: Darryl Pitt <darryl at dof3.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Willamette
> To: "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
> Cc: countdeiro at earthlink.net, mail at mhmeteorites.com, meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Thursday, December 10, 2009, 2:27 PM
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Again, E.P.,
> 
> Thanks for the inherent goodness in your note.  I'm
> sorry you're being rebutted by so many on the list; it's
> certainly not the intention to gang up on you.
> 
> Similarly, this really isn't about me or what I should
> do.  At issue has been the demonstrable interest on the
> part of the GR to acquire Willamette specimens.
> 
> Respectfully,  I simply cannot accept that the GR
> leadership, the same leadership which saw fit to merge the
> contradictory notions of a "Sacred Mountain" and a "Casino"
> into what is now the "Sacred Mountain Casino" would find it
> awkward and have a "tough time" dealing with me or Matt.
> 
> This could have readily been sorted out. The Grand Ronde
> and/or the American Museum of Natural History could have
> easily helped provide a solution if motivated to do so, but
> apparently there was no such motivation and I was left
> dangling in the wind.
> 
> You are mistaken in your speculation that the GR has been
> unaware of my interests in finding a happy resolution.
> That's just not accurate. I hope you are now clear as it
> regards the GR's insufficient interest in acquiring portions
> of the meteorite---and again, that's okay.
> 
> Let's please agree to move on. This is an old story which
> is fraught with loaded issues which are currently
> irreconcilable.  All sides of the story have been told
> and all intentions and agendas have been revealed.
> 
> 
> All the best, truly,
> 
> 
> Darryl
> 
> 
> 
> On Dec 10, 2009, at 10:17 AM, E.P. Grondine wrote:
> 
> > Hi Darryl, list -
> > 
> > Darryl, you have my sympathy for walking into a real
> mess - you traded a meteorite of real value for the
> Willamette piece, and did not know of the problems at the
> time.
> > 
> > From what I have seen, generally Native American
> spiritual guides and  leadership have a tough time
> dealing with anyone who would desecrate (in their view) a
> religious object.
> > 
> > I also think that they don't know you are looking for
> a way out of this mess - that is why I suggest to you that
> you contact them, and carefully explain to them what
> occurred, and the current situation. They will explain to
> you the reasons for their rejection of the 10 kg piece, and
> perhaps help you in finding a good path our of the current
> difficulty.
> > 
> > Best wishes,
> > E.P. Grondine
> > Man and Impact in the Americas
> > 
> > 
> > --- On Thu, 12/10/09, Darryl Pitt <darryl at dof3.com>
> wrote:
> > 
> >> From: Darryl Pitt <darryl at dof3.com>
> >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Willamette
> >> To: countdeiro at earthlink.net
> >> Cc: mail at mhmeteorites.com,
> "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine at yahoo.com>,
> meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com,
> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >> Date: Thursday, December 10, 2009, 12:05 AM
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Dear List and E.P.:
> >> 
> >> Long ago I've come to respect the GR's belief that
> it is
> >> wrong to participate in a financial value being
> placed on a
> >> revered and sacred object---even though I've
> personally
> >> believed that a valuation of such items is only a
> reflection
> >> of the value ascribed by non-tribal members.
> >> 
> >> Anyway, let's use your logic, E.P.  Don't you
> think if
> >> the GR was sincerely interested in a Willamette
> acquisition
> >> they would have been proactive and reached out to
> a
> >> benefactor by now?  Please, take a moment and
> think
> >> about it.
> >> 
> >> And then please also consider that when the AMNH
> offered to
> >> provide a ~10 kg specimen to the GR, this was
> also
> >> rejected.
> >> 
> >> In short, it would seem compelling the GR is not
> really so
> >> interested in a large specimen of Willamette---and
> that's
> >> okay!
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Respectfully and Peacefully,
> >> 
> >> Darryl
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Darryl
> >> 
> >> 
> >> On Dec 10, 2009, at 12:11 AM, countdeiro at earthlink.net
> >> wrote:
> >> 
> >>> The Grand Ronde band of American Indians own
> the
> >> largest and most profitable hotel/casino in
> Oregon. Anybody
> >> who is at least 1/8th GR gets a percentage every
> month . I
> >> wouldn't bother either.
> >>> Count Deiro
> >>> 
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: Matt Morgan <mail at mhmeteorites.com>
> >>>> Sent: Dec 9, 2009 11:04 PM
> >>>> To: "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine at yahoo.com>,
> >> meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com,
> >> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Willamette
> >>>> 
> >>>> FYI, I offered the GR a generous slice of
> my
> >> Willamette and they didn't even respond to
> me.  If I
> >> were Darryl, I wouldn't even bother.
> >>>> 
> >>>> Matt Morgan
> >>>> ------Original Message------
> >>>> From: E.P. Grondine
> >>>> Sender: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> >>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Willamette
> >>>> Sent: Dec 9, 2009 8:44 PM
> >>>> 
> >>>> Darryl -
> >>>> 
> >>>> May I suggest to you that perhaps it would
> be best
> >> to find a buyer for the Willamette piece who
> wanted a tax
> >> write off for gifting it back to the Grand Ronde
> peoples? I
> >> don't know their financial situation, or plans,
> but I would
> >> suggest contacting their elders as well before
> doing
> >> anything.
> >>>> 
> >>>> E.P. Grondine
> >>>> Man and Impact in the Americas
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>>
> ______________________________________________
> >>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> >>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
> >>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> ----------------------
> >>>> Matt Morgan
> >>>> Mile High Meteorites
> >>>> http://www.mhmeteorites.com
> >>>> P.O. Box 151293
> >>>> Lakewood, CO 80215 USA
> >>>>
> ______________________________________________
> >>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> >>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
> >>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >>> 
> >>>
> ______________________________________________
> >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> >>> Meteorite-list mailing list
> >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >> 
> >> 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 


      


From michael at rocksfromspace.org  Thu Dec 10 15:55:24 2009
From: michael at rocksfromspace.org (michael at rocksfromspace.org)
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 20:55:24 +0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December
	10, 2009
Message-ID: <1077940751-1260478508-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-824235284-@bda267.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

Hi darryl, yea, nothing ordinary about that OC!!

MJ

------Original Message------
From: Darryl Pitt
To: Michael Johnson
Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December 10, 2009
Sent: Dec 9, 2009 11:01 PM


great rock.  great photo.



On Dec 9, 2009, at 10:29 PM, Michael Johnson wrote:

> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/December_10_2009.html
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



Thumbed On My BlackBerry


From news at chladnis-heirs.com  Thu Dec 10 16:36:13 2009
From: news at chladnis-heirs.com (Chladnis Heirs)
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 22:36:13 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD:  Unique and Uncommon new Martian - NWA 5990
Message-ID: <001b01ca79e0$cca87df0$07b22959@name86d88d87e2>

Dear collectors,

today it is highest time to introduce our new ? not only in our eyes ? quite
sensational planetary recovery.
NWA 5990. A new Martian, remarkably distinct from the so far known finds.

Before cutting it was a relatively small stone of only 59 grams, coated with
an unweathered black fusion crust with some indications of flight marks,
which seemed to have spalled of on one corner by impacting the ground. The
stone felt somewhat heavier than one would expect for a planetary one.

Here you have a picture of the intact mass:

http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/uncut-mainm-klein.jpg


The first cut then revealed the outstanding nature of that small stone.
The overall fresh appearance of the exterior was trumped by the pristinely
looking cross section and you may comprehend our sudden elatedness, if you
take a look at this picture of the unpolished cut surface:

http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/6.995g-end-kl.jpg


As you can see, that stone looks simply different from all other Martians we
know. 
Well, with the numerous partially blackened olivines, one could tend to
think into the direction of a lherzolithe, but it turned out, that the stone
contains by far too much plagioclase to be lherzolithic. The grain size
however fits to a diabase.


That material is currently under analyses with a high priority at Dr.Irving,
Dr.Herd et al. - and perhaps as early as in January an abstract will be
already available. 
Therefore we beg for your understanding, that we can't forecast the exciting
results, but have to leave the first publication to the researchers, avidly
working on that surprising material.
Maybe the one or other being already the proud owner of a slice will share
his/her observations here in this thread with us instead.

And here starts our dilemma - you may wonder, why we go public with this new
Martian already without being able to name and explain the particularities
and specifics of this new material - especially so shortly before a paper is
scheduled; also it is planned to introduce the stone at the next Lunar &
Planetary Science Conference in Houston in beginning March..

Well the reason is simple - until then the material will have been
completely gone and you would have to miss out that important new Martian.

As the tkw was so low and this unique meteorite has such a scientific
brisance, we had of course to address firstly to research institutes, like
we had to do with NWA 5789 too. Afterwards we supplied the Martian
enthusiasts from our address book (and we cordially recommend and invite the
planetary specialists to contact us, if they want to be added there too).

So in the end and at present there are only two specimens left!


Half a fullslice with fusion crust.   2.338g 
Price is 1600$/g

http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/2_338g.jpg


And a crusted partial endcut.         1.908g 
at 1500$/g

http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/1_908g_endcut.jpg

http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/1_908g-end2.jpg



Else there would be only these two pieces, but they are on hold for a
museum, the negotiations aren't finished yet.
So most probably they won't be available.

A cap of the stone with a lot of crust and flight marks.
(Largest intact piece, hence depending on definitions the "main mass"):
http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/6.955g-end2-kl.jpg

http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/6.995g-end-kl.jpg

?
And a partslice.
http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/2_055g.jpg


If these specimens will have been gone, not a single grain of the stone will
remain available.


We hope you're as fascinated as we are from that new Christmas greeting from
the Red Planet and wish you a peaceful time.

Stefan Ralew & Martin Altmann

Chladni's Heirs
Munich - Berlin
Fine Meteorites for Science & Collectors
http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/







From meteoritekid at gmail.com  Thu Dec 10 17:27:28 2009
From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas)
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 14:27:28 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Willamette
In-Reply-To: <648048.95426.qm@web36905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <A2C19747-21FA-43E4-A80E-C42DE7E39FC8@dof3.com>
	<648048.95426.qm@web36905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <93aaac890912101427x35cc4564hdafef4969cd6d320@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Darryl, E.P.,
I'd like to intrude briefly, if I might.

This whole situation doesn't make much sense.

Firstly, I've never seen a shred of proof that would suggest that the
meteorite was indeed a sacred object for the natives.  While it *may*
have been an object of note in their community, so far as I can
recall, no native american artifacts were noted as having been found
in the vicinity of it when it was originally found by Ellis Hughes.
In light of that fact, this is the kind of situation where I would
look back through literature to see if the meteorite's religious
importance was noted *anywhere* by the local natives over time, but I
have never seen such a reference.  Ellis Hughes found it, took it, it
went to the AMNH, and a hundred years later, a tribe said it held
religious significance for them.  It doesn't make sense.

These are a people who have undoubtedly been wronged: that goes
without saying.   However, as Darryl notes, they do seem to be
exploiting many aspects of their cultural and spiritual heritage for
monetary purposes (I'm not saying this is a bad thing, but one should
note that things like the "Sacred Mountain Casino" negate any
semblance of religious respect on their part).

In my opinion, this was likely a legal shot in the dark for the tribe.
 You're looking at a people dispossessed of their land and their way
of life (not that their new one isn't so bad, running a casino and
all), who have tried everything they could to get it back.  So you
have a group of people hoping to get some of what was theirs back from
the people who took it.  They know that the land aspect of it (that is
to say, getting back land lost to settlers, etc.) is a lost cause,
but...a large meteorite formerly in their territory, potentially worth
millions of dollars, and few legal precedents in the judicial world of
such things?  Why not try to get it...?

I'm not trying to say that they're greedy, especially when the
opposite is true - one shouldn't forget that the entire continent was
once every Native Americans' home - but in this case, from what I read
of the situation, their claims weren't based on anything historical.
>From the self-performed desecration of various religious aspects of
their culture for commercial gain, to the fact that the meteorite
issue wasn't even *mentioned* until a hundred years after the fact,
it's all just a bit strange.

Beyond that...if anything, it sounds as though the admittance of a
right of ownership of the tribe by the AMNH (if this did actually
occur) is similar in nature to Senate Joint Resolution #4, which has
been long-proposed, but has never been formally voted on or passed,
for a number of reasons.  The goal of the bill was to get the American
government to formally admit wrongdoing with regards to how they
treated the Native American population.
Would this mean that the Native Americans would get their land back?  No.
Would this mean further reparations?  No.
So bringing up the fact that the AMNH admitted that the meteorite may
once have been an object over which the Native Americans had some
claim - not to say that the AMNH said this, or that the Native
Americans did have any real interest in the object before settlers
took over, since both of those things are ultimately unknown - all of
that means nothing since it in no way implies that they have any right
of ownership now.  Unless you're saying that, with the passing of S.J.
Res. 4, the majority of the United States will revert to Native
American ownership.

To be frank, it seems like you're making a big deal out of this in an
attempt to make it some sort of  symbolic victory for the Native
Americans.
I mean, why Wilamette?  Why not, say, Winona?  Casas Grandes?
Hopewell?  Bonita Springs?  Navajo?  All of these had some importance
to the native population, and all of these were in turn taken away
from their respective tribes.
And, it should be noted that while some interest was expressed in each
of these meteorites by the natives, none of these was deemed an
important part of these groups' spiritual lives, from what I gather.
There are many more culturally relevant landmarks - namely mountains,
rivers, and lakes - and other areas of natural and geologic interest
that hold much more weight with regards to the spiritual interests of
a number of tribes, especially with regards to their use in rituals,
etc.
But you focus on Willamette?  It's strange.

There are too many things here that just don't make sense.

Regards,
Jason

On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 12:51 PM, E.P. Grondine <epgrondine at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hi Darryl -
>
> I must say that your own correspondence on this this year has been much better than last year's, I wish that others would follow your lead in keeping a civil tone, and limiting their derogatory comments. (This is not meant for you, but I am pretty sure that the GR would be very happy to trade their casino for the lands that were taken from them.)
>
> I agree with you about moving on, as I have said about all I want to say on this, but note one last thing:
>
> The agreement between the AMNH and the GR recognized GR's ownership rights.
> If in the future, the GR decides to use money from that casino to pursue this, it may leave purchasers in a bind, just as it left you in a bind, and those future binds may come back to haunt you again. Let me emphasize, their lack of current response should not be taken as any indication of their future plans.
>
> Again, I would urge you contact them again, and give them the full particulars of what occurred to you; perhaps if the GR leaders do not offer you a way out, the AMNH leaders may.
>
> You have my sympathy for the position you have inadvertently found yourself in, "dangling in the wind", and for the work that lies before you in finding a way out of it.
>
> Best wishes,
> Ed
>
> --- On Thu, 12/10/09, Darryl Pitt <darryl at dof3.com> wrote:
>
>> From: Darryl Pitt <darryl at dof3.com>
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Willamette
>> To: "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
>> Cc: countdeiro at earthlink.net, mail at mhmeteorites.com, meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Date: Thursday, December 10, 2009, 2:27 PM
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Again, E.P.,
>>
>> Thanks for the inherent goodness in your note. ?I'm
>> sorry you're being rebutted by so many on the list; it's
>> certainly not the intention to gang up on you.
>>
>> Similarly, this really isn't about me or what I should
>> do. ?At issue has been the demonstrable interest on the
>> part of the GR to acquire Willamette specimens.
>>
>> Respectfully, ?I simply cannot accept that the GR
>> leadership, the same leadership which saw fit to merge the
>> contradictory notions of a "Sacred Mountain" and a "Casino"
>> into what is now the "Sacred Mountain Casino" would find it
>> awkward and have a "tough time" dealing with me or Matt.
>>
>> This could have readily been sorted out. The Grand Ronde
>> and/or the American Museum of Natural History could have
>> easily helped provide a solution if motivated to do so, but
>> apparently there was no such motivation and I was left
>> dangling in the wind.
>>
>> You are mistaken in your speculation that the GR has been
>> unaware of my interests in finding a happy resolution.
>> That's just not accurate. I hope you are now clear as it
>> regards the GR's insufficient interest in acquiring portions
>> of the meteorite---and again, that's okay.
>>
>> Let's please agree to move on. This is an old story which
>> is fraught with loaded issues which are currently
>> irreconcilable. ?All sides of the story have been told
>> and all intentions and agendas have been revealed.
>>
>>
>> All the best, truly,
>>
>>
>> Darryl
>>
>>
>>
>> On Dec 10, 2009, at 10:17 AM, E.P. Grondine wrote:
>>
>> > Hi Darryl, list -
>> >
>> > Darryl, you have my sympathy for walking into a real
>> mess - you traded a meteorite of real value for the
>> Willamette piece, and did not know of the problems at the
>> time.
>> >
>> > From what I have seen, generally Native American
>> spiritual guides and ?leadership have a tough time
>> dealing with anyone who would desecrate (in their view) a
>> religious object.
>> >
>> > I also think that they don't know you are looking for
>> a way out of this mess - that is why I suggest to you that
>> you contact them, and carefully explain to them what
>> occurred, and the current situation. They will explain to
>> you the reasons for their rejection of the 10 kg piece, and
>> perhaps help you in finding a good path our of the current
>> difficulty.
>> >
>> > Best wishes,
>> > E.P. Grondine
>> > Man and Impact in the Americas
>> >
>> >
>> > --- On Thu, 12/10/09, Darryl Pitt <darryl at dof3.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> From: Darryl Pitt <darryl at dof3.com>
>> >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Willamette
>> >> To: countdeiro at earthlink.net
>> >> Cc: mail at mhmeteorites.com,
>> "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine at yahoo.com>,
>> meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com,
>> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> >> Date: Thursday, December 10, 2009, 12:05 AM
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Dear List and E.P.:
>> >>
>> >> Long ago I've come to respect the GR's belief that
>> it is
>> >> wrong to participate in a financial value being
>> placed on a
>> >> revered and sacred object---even though I've
>> personally
>> >> believed that a valuation of such items is only a
>> reflection
>> >> of the value ascribed by non-tribal members.
>> >>
>> >> Anyway, let's use your logic, E.P. ?Don't you
>> think if
>> >> the GR was sincerely interested in a Willamette
>> acquisition
>> >> they would have been proactive and reached out to
>> a
>> >> benefactor by now? ?Please, take a moment and
>> think
>> >> about it.
>> >>
>> >> And then please also consider that when the AMNH
>> offered to
>> >> provide a ~10 kg specimen to the GR, this was
>> also
>> >> rejected.
>> >>
>> >> In short, it would seem compelling the GR is not
>> really so
>> >> interested in a large specimen of Willamette---and
>> that's
>> >> okay!
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Respectfully and Peacefully,
>> >>
>> >> Darryl
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Darryl
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Dec 10, 2009, at 12:11 AM, countdeiro at earthlink.net
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> The Grand Ronde band of American Indians own
>> the
>> >> largest and most profitable hotel/casino in
>> Oregon. Anybody
>> >> who is at least 1/8th GR gets a percentage every
>> month . I
>> >> wouldn't bother either.
>> >>> Count Deiro
>> >>>
>> >>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>>> From: Matt Morgan <mail at mhmeteorites.com>
>> >>>> Sent: Dec 9, 2009 11:04 PM
>> >>>> To: "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine at yahoo.com>,
>> >> meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com,
>> >> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> >>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Willamette
>> >>>>
>> >>>> FYI, I offered the GR a generous slice of
>> my
>> >> Willamette and they didn't even respond to
>> me. ?If I
>> >> were Darryl, I wouldn't even bother.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Matt Morgan
>> >>>> ------Original Message------
>> >>>> From: E.P. Grondine
>> >>>> Sender: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
>> >>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> >>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Willamette
>> >>>> Sent: Dec 9, 2009 8:44 PM
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Darryl -
>> >>>>
>> >>>> May I suggest to you that perhaps it would
>> be best
>> >> to find a buyer for the Willamette piece who
>> wanted a tax
>> >> write off for gifting it back to the Grand Ronde
>> peoples? I
>> >> don't know their financial situation, or plans,
>> but I would
>> >> suggest contacting their elders as well before
>> doing
>> >> anything.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> E.P. Grondine
>> >>>> Man and Impact in the Americas
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> >>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> >>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> >>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> >>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ----------------------
>> >>>> Matt Morgan
>> >>>> Mile High Meteorites
>> >>>> http://www.mhmeteorites.com
>> >>>> P.O. Box 151293
>> >>>> Lakewood, CO 80215 USA
>> >>>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> >>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> >>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> >>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> >>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> >>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


From news at chladnis-heirs.com  Thu Dec 10 18:23:45 2009
From: news at chladnis-heirs.com (Chladnis Heirs)
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 00:23:45 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] Addendum: NWA 5990 already in the MetBul Database!
	Details there.
Message-ID: <003001ca79ef$d222c880$07b22959@name86d88d87e2>

Good Afternoon again!

A collector found out, that a preliminary report of the new Martian is
already available in the database!
Must have been implemented right these very days.

So we can unveil a little more!
Find a description and the data here: 

http://kuerzer.de/NWA5990

Many thanks,
For having told that to us "Pallasit"!

Stefan & Martin





From paul at meteorite.com  Thu Dec 10 19:00:17 2009
From: paul at meteorite.com (Paul Harris)
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 16:00:17 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite-Times for December now up
Message-ID: <4B218B91.6090802@meteorite.com>

Hello Everyone,

The December issue of Meteorite-Times is now up.
http://www.meteorite-times.com/meteorite_frame.htm

Enjoy,

Paul and Jim



From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Thu Dec 10 19:14:56 2009
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 16:14:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Scarce Water,
	Our Quiet Sun and Space Rocks Among NASA News Highlights at
	American Geophysical Union Meeting
Message-ID: <200912110014.nBB0EvZI013976@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>



Dec. 10, 2009

Stephen Cole 
Headquarters, Washington      
202-358-0918 
stephen.e.cole at nasa.gov 

MEDIA ADVISORY: M09-232

SCARCE WATER, OUR QUIET SUN AND SPACE ROCKS AMONG NASA NEWS HIGHLIGHTS 
AT AMERICAN GEOPHYSICAL UNION MEETING

WASHINGTON -- NASA researchers will present new findings on a wide 
range of Earth and space science topics during the 2009 fall meeting 
of the American Geophysical Union. The meeting takes place Dec. 14-18 
at the Moscone Convention Center, 747 Howard St., in San Francisco. 

News briefings held during the meeting will feature new results on 
dwindling groundwater supplies in California and other parts of the 
world, the impact of the current "quiet" solar cycle on Earth's 
atmosphere, efforts to track near-Earth objects such as comets and 
asteroids, and satellite views of the global circulation of 
greenhouse gases. In addition, NASA scientists and their colleagues 
who use NASA research capabilities will present noteworthy findings 
during scientific sessions that are open to registered journalists. 

For a complete list of NASA-related news briefings at the meeting, 
visit: 

http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/agu/index.html 

The Web site contains detailed information about how reporters can 
participate in the briefings, both on-site and remotely. The site 
will be updated throughout the week with additional information about 
NASA presentations. 

For more information about NASA and agency programs, visit: 

http://www.nasa.gov 
	
-end-



From stanleygregr at hotmail.com  Thu Dec 10 19:16:28 2009
From: stanleygregr at hotmail.com (Greg Stanley)
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 16:16:28 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Unique and Uncommon new Martian - NWA 5990
In-Reply-To: <001b01ca79e0$cca87df0$07b22959@name86d88d87e2>
References: <001b01ca79e0$cca87df0$07b22959@name86d88d87e2>
Message-ID: <SNT117-W34B2401224674A346A2F13D28C0@phx.gbl>


Stefan/Martin:


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Simply a magnificent specimen; congratulations on your find.



Greg S.

----------------------------------------
> From: news at chladnis-heirs.com
> To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 22:36:13 +0100
> Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Unique and Uncommon new Martian - NWA 5990
>
> Dear collectors,
>
> today it is highest time to introduce our new ? not only in our eyes ? quite
> sensational planetary recovery.
> NWA 5990. A new Martian, remarkably distinct from the so far known finds.
>
> Before cutting it was a relatively small stone of only 59 grams, coated with
> an unweathered black fusion crust with some indications of flight marks,
> which seemed to have spalled of on one corner by impacting the ground. The
> stone felt somewhat heavier than one would expect for a planetary one.
>
> Here you have a picture of the intact mass:
>
> http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/uncut-mainm-klein.jpg
>
>
> The first cut then revealed the outstanding nature of that small stone.
> The overall fresh appearance of the exterior was trumped by the pristinely
> looking cross section and you may comprehend our sudden elatedness, if you
> take a look at this picture of the unpolished cut surface:
>
> http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/6.995g-end-kl.jpg
>
>
> As you can see, that stone looks simply different from all other Martians we
> know.
> Well, with the numerous partially blackened olivines, one could tend to
> think into the direction of a lherzolithe, but it turned out, that the stone
> contains by far too much plagioclase to be lherzolithic. The grain size
> however fits to a diabase.
>
>
> That material is currently under analyses with a high priority at Dr.Irving,
> Dr.Herd et al. - and perhaps as early as in January an abstract will be
> already available.
> Therefore we beg for your understanding, that we can't forecast the exciting
> results, but have to leave the first publication to the researchers, avidly
> working on that surprising material.
> Maybe the one or other being already the proud owner of a slice will share
> his/her observations here in this thread with us instead.
>
> And here starts our dilemma - you may wonder, why we go public with this new
> Martian already without being able to name and explain the particularities
> and specifics of this new material - especially so shortly before a paper is
> scheduled; also it is planned to introduce the stone at the next Lunar &
> Planetary Science Conference in Houston in beginning March..
>
> Well the reason is simple - until then the material will have been
> completely gone and you would have to miss out that important new Martian.
>
> As the tkw was so low and this unique meteorite has such a scientific
> brisance, we had of course to address firstly to research institutes, like
> we had to do with NWA 5789 too. Afterwards we supplied the Martian
> enthusiasts from our address book (and we cordially recommend and invite the
> planetary specialists to contact us, if they want to be added there too).
>
> So in the end and at present there are only two specimens left!
>
>
> Half a fullslice with fusion crust. 2.338g
> Price is 1600$/g
>
> http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/2_338g.jpg
>
>
> And a crusted partial endcut. 1.908g
> at 1500$/g
>
> http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/1_908g_endcut.jpg
>
> http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/1_908g-end2.jpg
>
>
>
> Else there would be only these two pieces, but they are on hold for a
> museum, the negotiations aren't finished yet.
> So most probably they won't be available.
>
> A cap of the stone with a lot of crust and flight marks.
> (Largest intact piece, hence depending on definitions the "main mass"):
> http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/6.955g-end2-kl.jpg
>
> http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/6.995g-end-kl.jpg
>
>
> And a partslice.
> http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/2_055g.jpg
>
>
> If these specimens will have been gone, not a single grain of the stone will
> remain available.
>
>
> We hope you're as fascinated as we are from that new Christmas greeting from
> the Red Planet and wish you a peaceful time.
>
> Stefan Ralew & Martin Altmann
>
> Chladni's Heirs
> Munich - Berlin
> Fine Meteorites for Science & Collectors
> http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/
>
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live Hotmail gives you a free,exclusive  gift.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/hotmail_bl1/hotmail_bl1.aspx?ocid=PID23879::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-ww:WM_IMHM_7:092009

From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Thu Dec 10 19:22:00 2009
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 16:22:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Spirit Rover: Rear Wheel Trouble Continues
Message-ID: <200912110022.nBB0M0ZW015626@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>


http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2009-191  

Rear Wheel Trouble Continues
Jet Propulsion Laboratory
December 10, 2009

Results of diagnostic tests on Spirit's right-rear wheel on Sol 2109
(Dec. 8, 2009) continue to indicate a troubled wheel, which may leave
the rover with only four operable wheels.

The Sol 2109 plan included a check of the grind motor of Spirit's rock
abrasion tool (RAT) because it shares the same motor controller as the
right-rear wheel. It also included rotor resistance tests on the
right-rear motor at three temperatures using opposite voltage polarity
from earlier tests, backward and forward commanded motion of the
right-rear wheel, and a check of rotor resistance on all other operating
wheels. The RAT motor appears okay, although a more exhaustive test will
be tried later. The right-rear wheel rotor resistance tests continue to
show very elevated resistance, although not as high as in previous
tests, and exhibiting a curious voltage-dependent effect. No motion of
the right-rear wheel occurred during the backward commanded motion. The
forward motion was not executed since the initial backward motion did
not occur. The rotor resistances on all the other operating wheels are
nominal.

The plan ahead, still being developed, will likely include more rotor
resistance tests, an attempt to apply higher voltage to the right-rear
wheel to see if any movement will occur, and a check of the right-front
wheel to confirm its status and to see if it may offer insight into the
right-rear wheel's condition. Further ahead, steering tests will be
considered to explore an external jam as a possible explanation.

Concurrent with this, the project is exploring whether any meaningful
rover motion would be possible with only four operable wheels. Spirit
lost the use of its right front wheel in 2006.

Because of the current rover tilt, the environmental conditions and dust
accumulation on the solar arrays, Spirit is at risk of inadequate power
for surviving through the next southern Mars winter, which reaches
solstice on May 13, 2009. Even if extrication is not possible, some
limited rover motion may be able to improve rover tilt and increase the
chance of winter survival.



From epgrondine at yahoo.com  Thu Dec 10 20:31:05 2009
From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine)
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 17:31:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Other meteorites
Message-ID: <392220.25709.qm@web36902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi Jason - 

First off, I have no idea where or what the GR have as their sacred mountain, but I can assure you that their naming their casino "Sacred Mountain Casino" in no way dishonors their religion. It simply would not have been done. Period.

As far as any future legalities go, I suppose these may be an isssue lawyers in court might decide. I won't play lawyer with you here on the meteorite list. In real life, you have to remember that Sacred Mountain Casino generates a lot of money; real lawyers like money.

Darryl,"hanging in the wind",  has my sympathy on this one, and I hope a way out that benefits everyone will be found.

"I mean, why Willamette?  Why not, say, Winona?  Casas Grandes?
Hopewell?  Bonita Springs?  Navajo?  All of these had some importance
to the native population, and all of these were in turn taken away
from their respective tribes."

A very good question. Why not? These meteorites are not only the cultural property of those of Native Descent living in those areas now, but of all the citizens who live in those areas today, and their cultural rights should be recognized as well. 

E.P. Grondine
Man and Impact in the Americas 


      


From meteoritekid at gmail.com  Thu Dec 10 22:47:07 2009
From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas)
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 19:47:07 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Other meteorites
In-Reply-To: <392220.25709.qm@web36902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <392220.25709.qm@web36902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <93aaac890912101947i56e1b12avd3769fb815e2e10b@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Again E.P., All,

> First off, I have no idea where or what the GR have as their sacred mountain, but I can assure you that their naming their casino "Sacred Mountain Casino" in no way dishonors their religion. It simply would not have been done. Period.

It may or may not dishonor it - depends on your religion, I suppose,
and how you view gambling, but it's certainly taking part of the
natural/mystical aspect of Native American culture and commercializing
it for a profit.  The point is that, assuming they do have a 'sacred
mountain,' it's pretty much desecrating it.  If I were to go and found
a casino called Temple Mount Casino in, say, Jerusalem, I have the
feeling that a lot of people wouldn't be too happy.

> As far as any future legalities go, I suppose these may be an isssue lawyers in court might decide. I won't play lawyer with you here on the meteorite list. In real life, you have to remember that Sacred Mountain Casino generates a lot of money; real lawyers like money.

Right, but that really says nothing about the legitimacy of their
clams, which is an issue you're now skirting.

> Darryl,"hanging in the wind", ?has my sympathy on this one, and I hope a way out that benefits everyone will be found.

In this case, I'd side exclusively with Darryl.  He happened to make a
very lucky trade for that Willamette a number of years ago, which was
realized when lunar prices dropped to about .5% of what they once were
and iron prices remained quite stable.
The Native Americans on the other hand, other misfortunes aside, well,
I'll reiterate - from a historical perspective, there's nothing to
even say they knew the meteorite was there.  Regardless of how they
have been robbed in the past, this is an instant where giving them the
meteorite, while a nice gesture, wouldn't be "returning" anything to
them since it's clearly open to debate as to whether or not the
meteorite had any significance to them a hundred years (or more) ago.
The fact that it's worth something ($$) now...well, it's worth a lot
to whomever can lay a claim on it, and not for spiritual reasons.

>> "I mean, why Willamette? ?Why not, say, Winona? ?Casas Grandes?
>> Hopewell? ?Bonita Springs? ?Navajo? ?All of these had some importance
>> to the native population, and all of these were in turn taken away
>> from their respective tribes."
>>
> A very good question. Why not? These meteorites are not only the cultural property of those of >Native Descent living in those areas now, but of all the citizens who live in those areas today, and >their cultural rights should be recognized as well.

Because this just isn't making any sense!
I agree - laws for such things should be in place to preserve the
archaeology and history of such sites, but giving such things back to
their respective owners...what you're essentially saying is that any
meteorite that was known to Native Americans back before White folks
came should belong to them because it has cultural significance.  Now
you're going to have to start returning every single relic and
artifact in every museum across the world to its respective place of
origin so that the descendants of the people who made it can have it
back, because of it's cultural relevance.

 Every.  Single.  Artifact.

Jason


> E.P. Grondine
> Man and Impact in the Americas
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com  Thu Dec 10 23:27:04 2009
From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold)
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 20:27:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] half off on all meteorites mentioned in the last 2
	weeks
Message-ID: <623760.35099.qm@web57802.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Hi list.Half off price for the? meteorites that I have mentioned in the last 2 weeks for sale.Just go back to all previous emails to get what you want for half?off.The putinga is sold by the way.
?Steve R. Arnold, Chicago!! 


From nuuska at dlc.fi  Thu Dec 10 23:27:05 2009
From: nuuska at dlc.fi (Pekka Savolainen)
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 06:27:05 +0200
Subject: [meteorite-list] Amazing aerieal spiral phenomenon over Norway,
 BBC Video link
In-Reply-To: <2009A1D4675C4594A500E84A9263BA65@ASUS>
References: <19110933.1260421888274.JavaMail.root@wamui-june.atl.sa.earthlink.net><3ED24BBB-A01B-44CF-BE0F-7157395BD531@dof3.com>	<8AEE9B832DB2495AAAF7C0CD01EE512A@fyiserver>
	<2009A1D4675C4594A500E84A9263BA65@ASUS>
Message-ID: <4B21CA19.7060002@dlc.fi>


once again...

http://www.itar-tass.com/eng/level2.html?NewsID=14626373&PageNum=0

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RSM-56_Bulava

pekka s


Jerry Flaherty kirjoitti:
> THE RUSSIAN'S DID IT!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Charles Viau" <cviau at comcast.net>
> Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 4:45 AM
> To: <meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com>; 
> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>; <mail at mhmeteorites.com>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Amazing aerieal spiral phenomenon over 
> Norway,BBC Video link
>
>> Really incredible. I have never seen aerial phenomenon like this.
>> What could possibly cause a moving spiral high in the atmosphere?
>>
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8404991.stm?ls
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>> CharlyV
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
> Version: 9.0.709 / Virus Database: 270.14.101/2555 - Release Date: 12/09/09 21:41:00
>
>   


-- 


Pekka Savolainen

Solar Gems

Jokiharjuntie 4
FI-71330
Rasala
FINLAND

member of IMCA #5776

www.imca.cc




From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net  Fri Dec 11 02:50:13 2009
From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb)
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 01:50:13 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Earth's Atmosphere Came from Outer Space,
	Like Meteorites
Message-ID: <84BD4E674B2D4AD2A63141DAD9383909@ATARIENGINE2>

Interestingly enough, the same scientists released
this same news story almost 5 years ago (Jan. 25,
2005) with the same conclusions. It appears to have
been less world-shattering than they think, possibly
because there is a hole in their logic that you could
drive a truck through, or possibly because there is
nothing to explain.

Their argument is that the gases from the interior of
the Earth are like that of meteorites that came from
outer space, but the Earth's atmosphere has a different
composition, which proves it must have come, yes,
from outer space...

Confused enough? Read on...

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/12/091210153538.htm

Earth's Atmosphere Came from Outer Space,
Scientists Find

ScienceDaily (Dec. 10, 2009) - The gases which formed
the Earth's atmosphere -- and probably its oceans -- did
not come from inside the Earth but from outer space,
according to a study by University of Manchester and
University of Houston scientists.

The report published in the journal Science means that
textbook images of ancient Earth with huge volcanoes
spewing gas into the atmosphere will have to be rethought.

According to the team, the age-old view that volcanoes
were the source of the Earth's earliest atmosphere must
be put to rest.

Using world-leading analytical techniques, the team of
Dr Greg Holland, Dr Martin Cassidy and Professor Chris
Ballentine tested volcanic gases to uncover the new
evidence.

The research was funded by Natural Environment Research
Council (NERC). "We found a clear meteorite signature in
volcanic gases," said Dr Greg Holland the project's lead
scientist.

"From that we now know that the volcanic gases could not
have contributed in any significant way to the Earth's
atmosphere.

"Therefore the atmosphere and oceans must have come
from somewhere else, possibly from a late bombardment
of gas and water rich materials similar to comets.

"Until now, no one has had instruments capable of looking
for these subtle signatures in samples from inside the Earth
-- but now we can do exactly that."

The techniques enabled the team to measure tiny quantities
of the unreactive volcanic trace gases Krypton and Xenon,
which revealed an isotopic 'fingerprint' matching that of
meteorites which is different from that of 'solar' gases.

The study is also the first to establish the precise composition
of the Krypton present in the Earth's mantle.

Project director Prof Chris Ballentine of The University of
Manchester, said: "Many people have seen artist's impressions
of the primordial Earth with huge volcanoes in the background
spewing gas to form the atmosphere.

"We will now have to redraw this picture."

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 



From sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com  Fri Dec 11 04:37:56 2009
From: sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com (Steve Dunklee)
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 01:37:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Willamette
In-Reply-To: <439394.65762.qm@web36903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <869917.79473.qm@web33203.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

The GR most likely did not respond due to the nature of the current legal process. I would compare it to buying your stolen item from a pawn shop. the pawn shop did not know the item was hot and made a legal purchase. which would also place a monetary value on the main mass. They can not buy a piece without putting thier claim to the main mass in jepordy. there may also be a gag order in the case by the Judge which would prevent them from responding.
  instead of trying to have the GR buy the piece it should be returned to the seller with a request for a refund.
 as the original sale/trade was illegal.
its like sayinmg to them
"hey i just bought your stolen car! would you like to buy it back?"
have a great day
Steve

--- On Thu, 12/10/09, E.P. Grondine <epgrondine at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: E.P. Grondine <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Willamette
> To: mail at mhmeteorites.com, meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, countdeiro at earthlink.net
> Date: Thursday, December 10, 2009, 9:29 AM
> Matt -
> 
> Just my opinion but it is likely that the slicing was a
> further desecration in their view, so their lack of response
> comes as no surprise. 
> 
> I don't think Count Deiro's advice is very good. I would
> suggest contacting them again - perhaps parts of the slice
> could be used by them in an appropriate manner.
> 
> Ed
> 
> --- On Wed, 12/9/09, countdeiro at earthlink.net
> <countdeiro at earthlink.net>
> wrote:
> 
> > From: countdeiro at earthlink.net
> <countdeiro at earthlink.net>
> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Willamette
> > To: mail at mhmeteorites.com,
> "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine at yahoo.com>,
> meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com,
> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > Date: Wednesday, December 9, 2009, 11:11 PM
> > The Grand Ronde band of American
> > Indians own the largest and most profitable
> hotel/casino in
> > Oregon. Anybody who is at least 1/8th GR gets a
> percentage
> > every month . I wouldn't bother either.
> > Count Deiro? 
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > >From: Matt Morgan <mail at mhmeteorites.com>
> > >Sent: Dec 9, 2009 11:04 PM
> > >To: "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine at yahoo.com>,
> > meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com,
> > meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > >Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Willamette
> > >
> > >FYI, I offered the GR a generous slice of my
> Willamette
> > and they didn't even respond to me.? If I were
> Darryl,
> > I wouldn't even bother. 
> > >
> > >Matt Morgan
> > >------Original Message------
> > >From: E.P. Grondine
> > >Sender: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> > >To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > >Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Willamette
> > >Sent: Dec 9, 2009 8:44 PM
> > >
> > >Darryl - 
> > >
> > >May I suggest to you that perhaps it would be best
> to
> > find a buyer for the Willamette piece who wanted a tax
> write
> > off for gifting it back to the Grand Ronde peoples? I
> don't
> > know their financial situation, or plans, but I would
> > suggest contacting their elders as well before doing
> > anything.
> > >
> > >E.P. Grondine
> > >Man and Impact in the Americas
> > >
> > >
> > >? ? ? 
> > >______________________________________________
> > >http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> > >Meteorite-list mailing list
> > >Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> > >
> > >
> > >----------------------
> > >Matt Morgan
> > >Mile High Meteorites
> > >http://www.mhmeteorites.com
> > >P.O. Box 151293
> > >Lakewood, CO 80215 USA
> > >______________________________________________
> > >http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> > >Meteorite-list mailing list
> > >Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> ? ? ? 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      


From epgrondine at yahoo.com  Fri Dec 11 10:20:20 2009
From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine)
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 07:20:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Other meteorites
In-Reply-To: <93aaac890912101947i56e1b12avd3769fb815e2e10b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <217861.68798.qm@web36907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi Jason - 
 
> > First off, I have no idea where or what the GR have as
> their sacred mountain, but I can assure you that their
> naming their casino "Sacred Mountain Casino" in no way
> dishonors their religion. It simply would not have been
> done. Period.
> 
> It may or may not dishonor it - depends on your religion, I
> suppose,

It does.

> and how you view gambling, but it's certainly taking part
> of the natural/mystical aspect of Native American culture and
> commercializing it for a profit.  

Not really. 

> > As far as any future legalities go, I suppose these
> may be an isssue lawyers in court might decide. I won't play
> lawyer with you here on the meteorite list. In real life,
> you have to remember that Sacred Mountain Casino generates a
> lot of money; real lawyers like money.

> "I mean, why Willamette?  Why not, say, Winona?
>  Casas Grandes? Hopewell?  Bonita Springs?  Navajo?  All of
> these had some importance to the native population, and all of these were >in turn taken away from their respective tribes."
> 
> > A very good question. Why not? These meteorites are
> >not only the cultural property of those of Native
> >Descent living in those areas now, but of all the citizens
> >who live in those areas today, and >their cultural rights
> >should be recognized as well.
 
> Because this just isn't making any sense!

Not to you, but others may have a different view.

> I agree - laws for such things should be in place to
> preserve the archaeology and history of such sites, 

They are now.

> but giving such
> things back to their respective owners...what you're essentially saying is that any meteorite that was known to Native Americans back before
> White folks came should belong to them because it has cultural
> significance.  

No, what I am saying is that stolen property will be returned.

>Now you're going to have to start returning every single relic and artifact in every museum across the world to its respective
> place of origin so that the descendants of the people who made it
> can have it back, because of it's cultural relevance.
> 
>  Every.  Single.  Artifact.

Not too bad an idea, and it is often being done now.

E.P. Grondine
Man and Impact in the Americas



      


From epgrondine at yahoo.com  Fri Dec 11 10:43:57 2009
From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine)
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 07:43:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Willamette
In-Reply-To: <869917.79473.qm@web33203.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <289685.88200.qm@web36901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi Steve - 

You may have it, what the GR lawyers and leaders are thinking. In any case, the AMNH left Darryl hanging in the wind, AS WELL AS ANY FUTURE PURCHASERS.

PS - Jason, I hope Steve's explanation makes this clearer to you.

I also hope an honorable and acceptable way out appears. I hope the AMNH steps up to the plate.

E.P. Grondine
Man and Impact in the Americas 

--- On Fri, 12/11/09, Steve Dunklee <sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Steve Dunklee <sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Willamette
> Date: Friday, December 11, 2009, 3:37 AM

> The GR most likely did not respond
> due to the nature of the current legal process. I would
> compare it to buying your stolen item from a pawn shop. the
> pawn shop did not know the item was hot and made a legal
> purchase. which would also place a monetary value on the
> main mass. They can not buy a piece without putting thier
> claim to the main mass in jeopardy. there may also be a gag
> order in the case by the Judge which would prevent them from
> responding.

> instead of trying to have the GR buy the piece it
> should be returned to the seller with a request for a
> refund, as the original sale/trade was illegal.

> its like sayinmg to them "hey i just bought your stolen car! would you like to buy it back?"

> have a great day
> Steve
> 
> --- On Thu, 12/10/09, E.P. Grondine <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > From: E.P. Grondine <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Willamette
> > To: mail at mhmeteorites.com,
> meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com,
> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com,
> countdeiro at earthlink.net
> > Date: Thursday, December 10, 2009, 9:29 AM
> > Matt -
> > 
> > Just my opinion but it is likely that the slicing was
> a
> > further desecration in their view, so their lack of
> response
> > comes as no surprise. 
> > 
> > I don't think Count Deiro's advice is very good. I
> would
> > suggest contacting them again - perhaps parts of the
> slice
> > could be used by them in an appropriate manner.
> > 
> > Ed
> > 
> > --- On Wed, 12/9/09, countdeiro at earthlink.net
> > <countdeiro at earthlink.net>
> > wrote:
> > 
> > > From: countdeiro at earthlink.net
> > <countdeiro at earthlink.net>
> > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Willamette
> > > To: mail at mhmeteorites.com,
> > "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine at yahoo.com>,
> > meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com,
> > meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > > Date: Wednesday, December 9, 2009, 11:11 PM
> > > The Grand Ronde band of American
> > > Indians own the largest and most profitable
> > hotel/casino in
> > > Oregon. Anybody who is at least 1/8th GR gets a
> > percentage
> > > every month . I wouldn't bother either.
> > > Count Deiro  
> > > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > >From: Matt Morgan <mail at mhmeteorites.com>
> > > >Sent: Dec 9, 2009 11:04 PM
> > > >To: "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine at yahoo.com>,
> > > meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com,
> > > meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > > >Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Willamette
> > > >
> > > >FYI, I offered the GR a generous slice of my
> > Willamette
> > > and they didn't even respond to me.  If I were
> > Darryl,
> > > I wouldn't even bother. 
> > > >
> > > >Matt Morgan
> > > >------Original Message------
> > > >From: E.P. Grondine
> > > >Sender: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> > > >To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > > >Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Willamette
> > > >Sent: Dec 9, 2009 8:44 PM
> > > >
> > > >Darryl - 
> > > >
> > > >May I suggest to you that perhaps it would be
> best
> > to
> > > find a buyer for the Willamette piece who wanted
> a tax
> > write
> > > off for gifting it back to the Grand Ronde
> peoples? I
> > don't
> > > know their financial situation, or plans, but I
> would
> > > suggest contacting their elders as well before
> doing
> > > anything.
> > > >
> > > >E.P. Grondine
> > > >Man and Impact in the Americas
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >      
> > >
> >______________________________________________
> > > >http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> > > >Meteorite-list mailing list
> > > >Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > > >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >----------------------
> > > >Matt Morgan
> > > >Mile High Meteorites
> > > >http://www.mhmeteorites.com
> > > >P.O. Box 151293
> > > >Lakewood, CO 80215 USA
> > >
> >______________________________________________
> > > >http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> > > >Meteorite-list mailing list
> > > >Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > > >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> >       
> > ______________________________________________
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 


      


From pierremariepele at yahoo.fr  Fri Dec 11 12:19:37 2009
From: pierremariepele at yahoo.fr (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Pel=E9_Pierre-Marie?=)
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 17:19:37 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD> Hurry up on ebay : 14g Kernouve,
	3.8 grams Tnz 057 (C4), 982 grams Tafassasset !
Message-ID: <549347.49921.qm@web23007.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hello List Members,

just to tell you that for 4 days left, you can bid on 3 great auctions for :
14 grams Kernouve fragment
3.8 grams Tanezrouft 057 (C4 with CK4/CV4 affinities)
0.9 gram Moss fragment
982 grams Tafassasset complete !

http://shop.ebay.fr/moky99/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=

Pierre-Marie Pele
www.meteor-center.com



      



From marcin at meteoryt.net  Fri Dec 11 12:45:24 2009
From: marcin at meteoryt.net (Marcin Cimala)
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 18:45:24 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] www.Gao-Guenie.com - big update
References: <549347.49921.qm@web23007.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <A6284A840C6C470AA71DA9C7B23D306A@polandmezrd5i9>

Hi all.
After some silence from my side, Im returning back. Hihi like a comet...

I have made large update in my Gao-Guenie shop. Last months was very rich 
and new specimens from Gao strewfield arrived safe in Poland.

I have added many oriented specimens, amazing slices of IMB Gao (beautifull 
slices), new uncleaned specimens for "natural specimens" fans, and also lots 
of complete, cleaned meteorites for "fresh material" fans.

have fun

-----[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-----[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]-----
http://www.Meteoryty.pl             marcin(at)meteoryty.pl
http://www.PolandMET.com       marcin(at)polandmet.com
http://www.Gao-Guenie.com      GSM: +48 (793) 567667
--------[ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society ]--------



From oxytropidoceras at cox.net  Fri Dec 11 14:04:55 2009
From: oxytropidoceras at cox.net (oxytropidoceras at cox.net)
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 14:04:55 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Four PDF Files of Papers About Asteroid Impact
	Generated Tsunamis
Message-ID: <20091211140456.UT0T2.155074.imail@eastrmwml40>

The papers are:

1. Tsunami From Asteroid And Comet Impacts: The Vulnerability of 
Europe by Jack C. Hills and Patrick Goda

2. Asteroid Tsunami Inundation of Japan by Charles L. Mader

3. Modeling The Eltanin Asteroid Tsunami by Charles L. Mader

4. Modeling Asteroid Impact And Tsunami by David A. Crawford
and Charles L. Mader

All of these papers are found in vol. 16, no. 1 (1998) of the
"Science of Tsunami Hazards". The 3.7 MB PDF of this 
issue of Science of Tsunami Hazards, which contains the
above paper can be downloaded from:

http://library.lanl.gov/tsunami/00394718.pdf

The table of contents.with links for PDF files, for this and 
other issues of the Science of Tsunami Hazards is at:

http://library.lanl.gov/tsunami/sth.htm

Yours,

Paul H.








From azizhabibi at yahoo.com  Fri Dec 11 14:30:34 2009
From: azizhabibi at yahoo.com (habibi abdelaziz)
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 11:30:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] off  meteorite / personnal question
Message-ID: <599048.47536.qm@web62008.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

hi 
all
please this is ?off list ,
i do not know where to ask , its here where i have many friends, i trust.
and i know there is big doctors here.

so i have to decide today? if i can take? the swin flue vaccin? me and my family my kids,

so i ask what is the chance to have segondary effect

do you advice me to take the shoot or not for me and my kids and my father? and mother old .

thanks and sorry to bring that in the list
habibi aziz 


box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco 
phone. 21235576145 
fax.21235576170</font>


      


From stanleygregr at hotmail.com  Fri Dec 11 14:37:21 2009
From: stanleygregr at hotmail.com (Greg Stanley)
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 11:37:21 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorites land in Botswana
Message-ID: <SNT117-W47D19582BC74EC17CCFD0AD28C0@phx.gbl>


List:

Anyone heard more info on this?

Greg S.



http://www.gov.bw/cgi-bin/news.cgi?d=20091211&i=Meteorites_land_in_Botswana


11 December, 2009
GABORONE - Some meteorites might have fallen from the sky in the area around the confluence of the Shashe and Limpopo rivers.

In an interview, the principal curator of geology at the Department of National Museum, Monuments and Art Gallery, Mohutsiwa Gabadirwe said on the night of November 21, a glowing object fell from the sky within those areas.

Gabadirwe explained that this unusual incident involved a sudden appearance of a large glow in the sky that lasted for a few seconds.

The object was suspected to have been a meteorite.

A meteorite is a piece of metal or stone, which has fallen from the earths outer space.

The meteorite burns in the sky producing a glowing light before reaching the ground and they range from a marble-ball size to a soccer-ball size.

They may originate from different sources from outer space with many coming from the Asteroid Belt and could also be from the moon and mars.

Gabadirwe said this incident was also reported to have been witnessed in neighbouring countries such as South Africa, Zimbabwe and Mozambique.

He noted that this was the first time the incidence occurred in Botswana.

However, he said, reports show that it once happened in 1999 but somehow the particles ended up overseas.

Gabadirwe explained that these were valuable stones as they contain a lot of useful information especially for the scientists urging that they should be protected.

He asked the public particularly in the Bobirwa and Tswapong areas to report any strange looking rocks or a hole on the ground showing signs of burning to either the the musuem or the local authorities.

The rocks could be identified by black burnt outside surface that does not flake or steak off when rubbed against other surfaces.

Gabadirwe advised that once meteorites have landed in Botswana they become part of the natural heritage of the country as protected by Monuments and Relief Act of 2001.

Therefore they are not to be collected or removed from where they are found.

Exportation of meteorites is also prohibited by law unless a special license has been obtained to do so.

He noted that at the moment they are working with the Department of Geological Surveys who are making rounds in the said areas in search of meteorites.

He also noted that they have been in contact with Department of Immigration and Citizenship to alert them in case people come from outside Botswana and try to steal them.BOPA 
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222986/direct/01/

From mmartin at sacredhearts.org  Fri Dec 11 14:44:10 2009
From: mmartin at sacredhearts.org (Matthew Martin)
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 09:44:10 -1000
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorites land in Botswana
In-Reply-To: <SNT117-W47D19582BC74EC17CCFD0AD28C0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <C747C4EA.206D%mmartin@sacredhearts.org>

Might be related to this...there's a video midway down the page:

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2745469/Amazing-meteor-lights-up-s
ky.html


Matthew Martin
Honolulu, HI






On 12/11/09 9:37 AM, "Greg Stanley" <stanleygregr at hotmail.com> wrote:

> 
> List:
> 
> Anyone heard more info on this?
> 
> Greg S.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.gov.bw/cgi-bin/news.cgi?d=20091211&i=Meteorites_land_in_Botswana
> 
> 
> 11 December, 2009
> GABORONE - Some meteorites might have fallen from the sky in the area around
> the confluence of the Shashe and Limpopo rivers.
> 
> In an interview, the principal curator of geology at the Department of
> National Museum, Monuments and Art Gallery, Mohutsiwa Gabadirwe said on the
> night of November 21, a glowing object fell from the sky within those areas.
> 
> Gabadirwe explained that this unusual incident involved a sudden appearance of
> a large glow in the sky that lasted for a few seconds.
> 
> The object was suspected to have been a meteorite.
> 
> A meteorite is a piece of metal or stone, which has fallen from the earths
> outer space.
> 
> The meteorite burns in the sky producing a glowing light before reaching the
> ground and they range from a marble-ball size to a soccer-ball size.
> 
> They may originate from different sources from outer space with many coming
> from the Asteroid Belt and could also be from the moon and mars.
> 
> Gabadirwe said this incident was also reported to have been witnessed in
> neighbouring countries such as South Africa, Zimbabwe and Mozambique.
> 
> He noted that this was the first time the incidence occurred in Botswana.
> 
> However, he said, reports show that it once happened in 1999 but somehow the
> particles ended up overseas.
> 
> Gabadirwe explained that these were valuable stones as they contain a lot of
> useful information especially for the scientists urging that they should be
> protected.
> 
> He asked the public particularly in the Bobirwa and Tswapong areas to report
> any strange looking rocks or a hole on the ground showing signs of burning to
> either the the musuem or the local authorities.
> 
> The rocks could be identified by black burnt outside surface that does not
> flake or steak off when rubbed against other surfaces.
> 
> Gabadirwe advised that once meteorites have landed in Botswana they become
> part of the natural heritage of the country as protected by Monuments and
> Relief Act of 2001.
> 
> Therefore they are not to be collected or removed from where they are found.
> 
> Exportation of meteorites is also prohibited by law unless a special license
> has been obtained to do so.
> 
> He noted that at the moment they are working with the Department of Geological
> Surveys who are making rounds in the said areas in search of meteorites.
> 
> He also noted that they have been in contact with Department of Immigration
> and Citizenship to alert them in case people come from outside Botswana and
> try to steal them.BOPA
>  
> _________________________________________________________________
> Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222986/direct/01/
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list




From meteoritekid at gmail.com  Fri Dec 11 17:42:52 2009
From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas)
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 14:42:52 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Willamette
In-Reply-To: <289685.88200.qm@web36901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <869917.79473.qm@web33203.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<289685.88200.qm@web36901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <93aaac890912111442r6684c262hcd7b4704a0d99e9d@mail.gmail.com>

E.P.,
Steve's note does not address or resolve a single one of the issues I
brought up, and only gives a possible explanation for why the tribe
didn't *purchase* a specimen from Matt or Darryl; and since Matt
offered to donate one to them, this still seems a poor explanation.  I
didn't address this issue/question in my email, so, no, this clarifies
nothing.
Jason

On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 7:43 AM, E.P. Grondine <epgrondine at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hi Steve -
>
> You may have it, what the GR lawyers and leaders are thinking. In any case, the AMNH left Darryl hanging in the wind, AS WELL AS ANY FUTURE PURCHASERS.
>
> PS - Jason, I hope Steve's explanation makes this clearer to you.
>
> I also hope an honorable and acceptable way out appears. I hope the AMNH steps up to the plate.
>
> E.P. Grondine
> Man and Impact in the Americas
>
> --- On Fri, 12/11/09, Steve Dunklee <sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> From: Steve Dunklee <sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com>
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Willamette
>> Date: Friday, December 11, 2009, 3:37 AM
>
>> The GR most likely did not respond
>> due to the nature of the current legal process. I would
>> compare it to buying your stolen item from a pawn shop. the
>> pawn shop did not know the item was hot and made a legal
>> purchase. which would also place a monetary value on the
>> main mass. They can not buy a piece without putting thier
>> claim to the main mass in jeopardy. there may also be a gag
>> order in the case by the Judge which would prevent them from
>> responding.
>
>> instead of trying to have the GR buy the piece it
>> should be returned to the seller with a request for a
>> refund, as the original sale/trade was illegal.
>
>> its like sayinmg to them "hey i just bought your stolen car! would you like to buy it back?"
>
>> have a great day
>> Steve
>>
>> --- On Thu, 12/10/09, E.P. Grondine <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > From: E.P. Grondine <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
>> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Willamette
>> > To: mail at mhmeteorites.com,
>> meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com,
>> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com,
>> countdeiro at earthlink.net
>> > Date: Thursday, December 10, 2009, 9:29 AM
>> > Matt -
>> >
>> > Just my opinion but it is likely that the slicing was
>> a
>> > further desecration in their view, so their lack of
>> response
>> > comes as no surprise.
>> >
>> > I don't think Count Deiro's advice is very good. I
>> would
>> > suggest contacting them again - perhaps parts of the
>> slice
>> > could be used by them in an appropriate manner.
>> >
>> > Ed
>> >
>> > --- On Wed, 12/9/09, countdeiro at earthlink.net
>> > <countdeiro at earthlink.net>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > > From: countdeiro at earthlink.net
>> > <countdeiro at earthlink.net>
>> > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Willamette
>> > > To: mail at mhmeteorites.com,
>> > "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine at yahoo.com>,
>> > meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com,
>> > meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> > > Date: Wednesday, December 9, 2009, 11:11 PM
>> > > The Grand Ronde band of American
>> > > Indians own the largest and most profitable
>> > hotel/casino in
>> > > Oregon. Anybody who is at least 1/8th GR gets a
>> > percentage
>> > > every month . I wouldn't bother either.
>> > > Count Deiro
>> > >
>> > > -----Original Message-----
>> > > >From: Matt Morgan <mail at mhmeteorites.com>
>> > > >Sent: Dec 9, 2009 11:04 PM
>> > > >To: "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine at yahoo.com>,
>> > > meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com,
>> > > meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> > > >Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Willamette
>> > > >
>> > > >FYI, I offered the GR a generous slice of my
>> > Willamette
>> > > and they didn't even respond to me. ?If I were
>> > Darryl,
>> > > I wouldn't even bother.
>> > > >
>> > > >Matt Morgan
>> > > >------Original Message------
>> > > >From: E.P. Grondine
>> > > >Sender: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
>> > > >To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> > > >Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Willamette
>> > > >Sent: Dec 9, 2009 8:44 PM
>> > > >
>> > > >Darryl -
>> > > >
>> > > >May I suggest to you that perhaps it would be
>> best
>> > to
>> > > find a buyer for the Willamette piece who wanted
>> a tax
>> > write
>> > > off for gifting it back to the Grand Ronde
>> peoples? I
>> > don't
>> > > know their financial situation, or plans, but I
>> would
>> > > suggest contacting their elders as well before
>> doing
>> > > anything.
>> > > >
>> > > >E.P. Grondine
>> > > >Man and Impact in the Americas
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> >______________________________________________
>> > > >http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> > > >Meteorite-list mailing list
>> > > >Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> > > >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >----------------------
>> > > >Matt Morgan
>> > > >Mile High Meteorites
>> > > >http://www.mhmeteorites.com
>> > > >P.O. Box 151293
>> > > >Lakewood, CO 80215 USA
>> > >
>> >______________________________________________
>> > > >http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> > > >Meteorite-list mailing list
>> > > >Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> > > >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ______________________________________________
>> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> > Meteorite-list mailing list
>> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


From darryl at dof3.com  Fri Dec 11 17:44:56 2009
From: darryl at dof3.com (Darryl Pitt)
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 17:44:56 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] TEST
Message-ID: <C777D106-5A2C-443E-A431-4432D39DA7DF@dof3.com>





From darryl at dof3.com  Fri Dec 11 17:45:31 2009
From: darryl at dof3.com (Darryl Pitt)
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 17:45:31 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] TEST
Message-ID: <06E108A3-C0DA-44D9-AE5D-6A48267FD80E@dof3.com>



TEST




From darryl at dof3.com  Fri Dec 11 17:59:25 2009
From: darryl at dof3.com (Darryl Pitt)
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 17:59:25 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] WILLAMETTE / New Chapter
Message-ID: <EF3147E3-F3DE-4CFF-9E1F-F3078F7F2060@dof3.com>



I sent this early this morning and it did not go through.  There is  
what I believe to be an interesting/exasperating wrinkle to the story  
which most list members are not aware of which will clarify that  
Willamette can be owned free and clear and that buyers are not placing  
themselves in jeopardy.

==================


E.P.,

Steve's explanation is speculation, and I don't agree that speculating  
about possible motives is the way to proceed here.  New problems and  
misunderstandings will be created---as if there haven't been enough  
already.  ;-)   And while I appreciate your support, it also really is  
not accurate to state that future purchasers are left hanging in the  
wind.


And so...

BRIEF RECENT LEGAL HISTORY OF THE WILLAMETTE METEORITE -- WITH A NEW  
CHAPTER FOR WILLAMETTE HISTORY BUFFS


In 1999, the Confederated Tribes of the Grand Ronde filed a NAGPRA  
(Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act) claim to have  
the Willamette meteorite returned to Oregon.  In a written statement,  
Tracy Dugan, a spokeswoman for the Grand Ronde explained, "The  
Confederated Tribes is shocked that the American Museum of Natural  
History insists upon illegally keeping this important sacred object  
which belongs to the history and culture of the Grand Ronde Tribes."   
It was further written in the NAGPRA claim, "The only acceptable  
resolution of this matter will be through the unconditional  
repatriation of the Willamette Meteorite."

In 2000, the American Museum of Natural History did not address the  
NAGPRA claim and instead filed a lawsuit in federal court against the  
Grand Ronde requesting a declaratory judgement.  In the Museum's  
claim, it was stated that this matter does not fit the parameters of a  
NAGPRA case.

Months later the parties settled. The meteorite remained where it was  
and the Museum provided the Grand Ronde signage, paid internships and  
an annual private visit.


In 2007, just prior to the Bonhams auction in which the crown section  
of Willamette was being offered, an editorial appeared in the Portland  
Oregonian, which stated:

"The Grand Ronde don't have time before this month's auction to file a  
claim for return of the piece in Pitt's possession, but potential  
buyers ought to beware: There just might be a lawsuit looming.  It  
would seem to us the Grand Ronde tribes have an extremely strong case  
under the 1990 federal law intended to help Native Americans reclaim  
cultural and religious objects.   Whoever buys the precious chunk of  
meteorite should consider offering a settlement like the museum did.  
And they should promise never to cut the sacred piece of Tomanowos."

I was outraged.

1.  The Oregonian stated that the "museum offered a settlement," and  
nothing could be further from the truth.  The museum sued the Grand  
Ronde in federal court in response to the Grand Ronde's NAGPRA claim,  
and the Grand Ronde backed off their claim.

2.  As the Grand Ronde stated in their NAGPRA claim that the only  
solution was the "unconditional repatriation" of the meteorite, and as  
this did not occur, how is it that the largest newspaper in Oregon  
could state that the Grand Ronde suddenly had a strong case?

3.  The notion of "not having enough time" to file additional legal  
action was also fatuous.  The Grand Ronde was aware of my possession  
of this meteorite specimen for at least five years. In addition, I  
publicly auctioned many other specimens, sales which were extensively  
covered by the media--which included statements by the Grand Ronde-- 
without a lawsuit or a threat of a lawsuit;

4.  Who was the Oregonian's source about there not being enough time  
to file legal action?  It would have to be someone at the Grand Ronde,  
right?  But the Grand Ronde stated on their website there would be no  
legal action.  Could this "editorial" have been phoned in by a rogue  
tribe member with clout?

Did I mention that the Grand Ronde is the Portland Oregonian's largest  
advertiser?


Two days later the newspaper published an apology for their false  
claims and issued a retraction, "The Grand Ronde has no intention of  
filing a lawsuit."  The Grand Ronde also stated, "Legal action was  
never contemplated, and there will be no action taken."

As the Portland Oregonian attacked me for a "lack of class,"  I  
publicly suggested that given the string of untruthful statements made  
by the newspaper, and in light of the ad revenues provided by the  
Grand Ronde which enrich the newspaper, it seemed clear that if the  
Portland Oregonian had any class, they would acquire the specimen and  
provide it to the Grand Ronde.

The Portland Oregonian made no effort to do so.


All best  / Darryl

And now I need to make the effort to not address this any further for  
at least the next several months  ;-)





On Dec 11, 2009, at 10:43 AM, E.P. Grondine wrote:

> Hi Steve -
>
> You may have it, what the GR lawyers and leaders are thinking. In  
> any case, the AMNH left Darryl hanging in the wind, AS WELL AS ANY  
> FUTURE PURCHASERS.
>
> PS - Jason, I hope Steve's explanation makes this clearer to you.
>
> I also hope an honorable and acceptable way out appears. I hope the  
> AMNH steps up to the plate.
>
> E.P. Grondine
> Man and Impact in the Americas
>
> --- On Fri, 12/11/09, Steve Dunklee <sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> From: Steve Dunklee <sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com>
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Willamette
>> Date: Friday, December 11, 2009, 3:37 AM
>
>> The GR most likely did not respond
>> due to the nature of the current legal process. I would
>> compare it to buying your stolen item from a pawn shop. the
>> pawn shop did not know the item was hot and made a legal
>> purchase. which would also place a monetary value on the
>> main mass. They can not buy a piece without putting thier
>> claim to the main mass in jeopardy. there may also be a gag
>> order in the case by the Judge which would prevent them from
>> responding.
>
>> instead of trying to have the GR buy the piece it
>> should be returned to the seller with a request for a
>> refund, as the original sale/trade was illegal.
>
>> its like sayinmg to them "hey i just bought your stolen car! would  
>> you like to buy it back?"
>
>> have a great day
>> Steve
>>
>> --- On Thu, 12/10/09, E.P. Grondine <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> From: E.P. Grondine <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Willamette
>>> To: mail at mhmeteorites.com,
>> meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com,
>> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com,
>> countdeiro at earthlink.net
>>> Date: Thursday, December 10, 2009, 9:29 AM
>>> Matt -
>>>
>>> Just my opinion but it is likely that the slicing was
>> a
>>> further desecration in their view, so their lack of
>> response
>>> comes as no surprise.
>>>
>>> I don't think Count Deiro's advice is very good. I
>> would
>>> suggest contacting them again - perhaps parts of the
>> slice
>>> could be used by them in an appropriate manner.
>>>
>>> Ed
>>>
>>> --- On Wed, 12/9/09, countdeiro at earthlink.net
>>> <countdeiro at earthlink.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> From: countdeiro at earthlink.net
>>> <countdeiro at earthlink.net>
>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Willamette
>>>> To: mail at mhmeteorites.com,
>>> "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine at yahoo.com>,
>>> meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com,
>>> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> Date: Wednesday, December 9, 2009, 11:11 PM
>>>> The Grand Ronde band of American
>>>> Indians own the largest and most profitable
>>> hotel/casino in
>>>> Oregon. Anybody who is at least 1/8th GR gets a
>>> percentage
>>>> every month . I wouldn't bother either.
>>>> Count Deiro
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Matt Morgan <mail at mhmeteorites.com>
>>>>> Sent: Dec 9, 2009 11:04 PM
>>>>> To: "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine at yahoo.com>,
>>>> meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com,
>>>> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Willamette
>>>>>
>>>>> FYI, I offered the GR a generous slice of my
>>> Willamette
>>>> and they didn't even respond to me.  If I were
>>> Darryl,
>>>> I wouldn't even bother.
>>>>>
>>>>> Matt Morgan
>>>>> ------Original Message------
>>>>> From: E.P. Grondine
>>>>> Sender: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Willamette
>>>>> Sent: Dec 9, 2009 8:44 PM
>>>>>
>>>>> Darryl -
>>>>>
>>>>> May I suggest to you that perhaps it would be
>> best
>>> to
>>>> find a buyer for the Willamette piece who wanted
>> a tax
>>> write
>>>> off for gifting it back to the Grand Ronde
>> peoples? I
>>> don't
>>>> know their financial situation, or plans, but I
>> would
>>>> suggest contacting their elders as well before
>> doing
>>>> anything.
>>>>>
>>>>> E.P. Grondine
>>>>> Man and Impact in the Americas


Depth of Field Management  | 1501 Broadway  Suite 1304  |  New York,  
New York  10036  |  212.302.9200







From meteoritekid at gmail.com  Fri Dec 11 18:10:07 2009
From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas)
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 15:10:07 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Other meteorites
In-Reply-To: <217861.68798.qm@web36907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <93aaac890912101947i56e1b12avd3769fb815e2e10b@mail.gmail.com>
	<217861.68798.qm@web36907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <93aaac890912111510l3d136ef8i624147daa026da48@mail.gmail.com>

E.P., All,

Well, if you're advocating the return of every culturally relevant
artifact ever discovered to it's respective source culture, from a
moralistic point of view, I can see where you're coming from.  The
only problem then becomes that no one's really going to agree with
you, and if you use that as justification for returning "stolen"
meteorites, well, your case isn't going to last long.

Especially with cases like Willamette where we have no proof that they
even knew it existed before Ellis Hughes found it.  That's my main
issue with this case; there was simply nothing to say that it had any
cultural importance to them until they took the issue to court in
the...late 1990's, I believe.  At which point the meteorite was
supposedly worth a goodly sum of money, so who can blame them...

Other meteorites like Casas Grandes and Winona - based on the
conditions of their finding, they seem much more likely to be seen as
cultural artifacts, though since their respective cultures haven't
come forward and even so much as asked for the meteorites to be
returned, forcing the return would simply seem counterproductive to
science.  These things were lost and forgotten.  Calling them
culturally relevant to todays people is simply pointless.

When such things become lost, they cease to be a part of culture and
become history.

Regards,
Jason

On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 7:20 AM, E.P. Grondine <epgrondine at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hi Jason -
>
>> > First off, I have no idea where or what the GR have as
>> their sacred mountain, but I can assure you that their
>> naming their casino "Sacred Mountain Casino" in no way
>> dishonors their religion. It simply would not have been
>> done. Period.
>>
>> It may or may not dishonor it - depends on your religion, I
>> suppose,
>
> It does.
>
>> and how you view gambling, but it's certainly taking part
>> of the natural/mystical aspect of Native American culture and
>> commercializing it for a profit.
>
> Not really.
>
>> > As far as any future legalities go, I suppose these
>> may be an isssue lawyers in court might decide. I won't play
>> lawyer with you here on the meteorite list. In real life,
>> you have to remember that Sacred Mountain Casino generates a
>> lot of money; real lawyers like money.
>
>> "I mean, why Willamette? ?Why not, say, Winona?
>> ?Casas Grandes? Hopewell? ?Bonita Springs? ?Navajo? ?All of
>> these had some importance to the native population, and all of these were >in turn taken away from their respective tribes."
>>
>> > A very good question. Why not? These meteorites are
>> >not only the cultural property of those of Native
>> >Descent living in those areas now, but of all the citizens
>> >who live in those areas today, and >their cultural rights
>> >should be recognized as well.
>
>> Because this just isn't making any sense!
>
> Not to you, but others may have a different view.
>
>> I agree - laws for such things should be in place to
>> preserve the archaeology and history of such sites,
>
> They are now.
>
>> but giving such
>> things back to their respective owners...what you're essentially saying is that any meteorite that was known to Native Americans back before
>> White folks came should belong to them because it has cultural
>> significance.
>
> No, what I am saying is that stolen property will be returned.
>
>>Now you're going to have to start returning every single relic and artifact in every museum across the world to its respective
>> place of origin so that the descendants of the people who made it
>> can have it back, because of it's cultural relevance.
>>
>> ?Every. ?Single. ?Artifact.
>
> Not too bad an idea, and it is often being done now.
>
> E.P. Grondine
> Man and Impact in the Americas
>
>
>
>
>


From pshugar at clearwire.net  Sat Dec 12 01:03:29 2009
From: pshugar at clearwire.net (Pete Shugar)
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 00:03:29 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorwrongs
Message-ID: <5E9F3C350F3F48C995E949229EE98AC9@laptop>

If you have not gotten your meteorwrong from Joe,
you seriously need to get one.
This is the most realistic wrong on the planet. It has metal,
pseudo chrondrules, shock veins, metal inclusions, a very realistic
matrix, what will pass for fusion crust, and it just looks
like the real deal.
I defey you to just look at it without any magnifying glasses
or other means of analysis, save only a magnet.
and say it's what ever the heck it is.
That's just the thing----what the heck is it?
I dunno, but it sure looks like the real thing.
Pete 



From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com  Sat Dec 12 07:11:35 2009
From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold)
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 04:11:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] worlds biggest tektite in history
Message-ID: <977050.39702.qm@web57803.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Good early morning list.Got to put in another?10 hour day.Last of a 65 hour week.Hey I noticed on ebay someone is selling a 3.8 kilo tektite.I s it possible to be that big?I've seen them many hundreds of grams but not 7 lbs. I s it really possible??????
?Steve R. Arnold, Chicago!! 


From meteoritekid at gmail.com  Sat Dec 12 07:21:45 2009
From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas)
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 04:21:45 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] worlds biggest tektite in history
In-Reply-To: <977050.39702.qm@web57803.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
References: <977050.39702.qm@web57803.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <93aaac890912120421w4b1c64aat8c1e7bb22bd11557@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Steve, All,
I've hear tell (and seen photos) of a Muong Nong layered tektite in
the 40-50kg range in Thailand, but the asking price was around a
dollar a gram.  They do come big, but they're rarely seen above about
a kilo or so.
Regards,
Jason

On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 4:11 AM, steve arnold
<stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Good early morning list.Got to put in another?10 hour day.Last of a 65 hour week.Hey I noticed on ebay someone is selling a 3.8 kilo tektite.I s it possible to be that big?I've seen them many hundreds of grams but not 7 lbs. I s it really possible??????
> ?Steve R. Arnold, Chicago!!
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


From oxytropidoceras at cox.net  Sat Dec 12 07:29:55 2009
From: oxytropidoceras at cox.net (oxytropidoceras at cox.net)
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 7:29:55 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Earth's Atmosphere Came from Outer Space
Message-ID: <20091212072955.9NTKM.159163.imail@eastrmwml43>

Earth's Atmosphere Came from Outer Space, Scientists Find
Science Daily, Dec. 11, 2009, 

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/12/091210153538.htm

The paper is:

Holland, G., Chris J. Ballentine, and Martin Cassidy, 2009,
Meteorite Kr in Earth's Mantle Suggests a Late Accretionary 
Source for the Atmosphere. Science. vol. 326, no. 5959, 
pp. 1522 - 1525 DOI: 10.1126/science.1179518, 

http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/326/5959/1522

Yours,

Paul H.


From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Sat Dec 12 08:22:33 2009
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 08:22:33 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD : New Exclusive Lunar and Martian Meteorite
	Displays - Limited Quantity
Message-ID: <e51421550912120522v790ff0f8j4fb5f72669e24d20@mail.gmail.com>

Hi List!

These new meteorite displays feature a genuine piece of the Moon or
the planet Mars - small samples of lunar meteorite NWA 4734 and the
Martian meteorite NWA 4857. Order now (or very soon) for Christmas
delivery!

The meteorite specimens are encased in clear acrylic gemjars which are
placed inside a handsome display box that has a black pebblegrain
finish and a glass viewing window. The Moon or Mars Rock can be
removed from the case and handled or examined. The color artwork
inside the display has a retro-vintage astronomy theme and it was
laser printed for highest quality. This display would make the ideal
gift for someone who has everything. This would also make a fine
outreach or educational prop and it would look great on display in the
office or observatory.

I only have a limited supply of these displays. Each one is numbered.
Your purchase comes with a data sheet with information about the
meteorite.

Refer to the photos in the links. The black centimeter cube is shown
for scale and is not included.

(ignore the website price - Met List members get a 20% discount!)

http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/0/MOON-ROCK-Exclusive-Retro-Art-Lunar-Meteorite-Display_1145800.html

http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/0/MARS-ROCK-Colorful-Retro-Art-Martian-Meteorite-Display_1151104.html

I only have 3 of the Lunar displays and 2 of the Martian displays.
Order your's now to guarantee delivery before Christmas.

To order or inquire, contact me (or send PayPal to) - meteoritemike at gmail.com

Thanks for looking and Merry Christmas!

MikeG

www.galactic-stone.com


From cynapse at charter.net  Sat Dec 12 09:25:24 2009
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 09:25:24 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Video of a couple of carbonaceous chondrites
In-Reply-To: <977050.39702.qm@web57803.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
References: <977050.39702.qm@web57803.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <it97i55utr24biu334gpdd2hvbg1kja1a8@4ax.com>

http://www.esa.int/SPECIALS/Mars_Express/SEMDOE7JT2G_1.html


From roxfromspace at gmail.com  Sat Dec 12 11:12:46 2009
From: roxfromspace at gmail.com (Phil Morgan)
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 09:12:46 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] worlds biggest tektite in history
In-Reply-To: <93aaac890912120421w4b1c64aat8c1e7bb22bd11557@mail.gmail.com>
References: <977050.39702.qm@web57803.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
	<93aaac890912120421w4b1c64aat8c1e7bb22bd11557@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <70baf8d20912120812h45fa8efds48476cfed72e79d@mail.gmail.com>

For any interested in this topic, Aubrey Whymark has a nice page on
large tektites here http://www.tektites.co.uk/largest_tektites.html.

You owe it to yourself to have a look at the rest of his site as well.
 It's very comprehensive.

FYI,
Phil

On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 5:21 AM, Jason Utas <meteoritekid at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello Steve, All,
> I've hear tell (and seen photos) of a Muong Nong layered tektite in
> the 40-50kg range in Thailand, but the asking price was around a
> dollar a gram. ?They do come big, but they're rarely seen above about
> a kilo or so.
> Regards,
> Jason
>
> On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 4:11 AM, steve arnold
> <stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Good early morning list.Got to put in another?10 hour day.Last of a 65 hour week.Hey I noticed on ebay someone is selling a 3.8 kilo tektite.I s it possible to be that big?I've seen them many hundreds of grams but not 7 lbs. I s it really possible??????
>> ?Steve R. Arnold, Chicago!!
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


From tommy2005 at hvc.rr.com  Sat Dec 12 10:57:10 2009
From: tommy2005 at hvc.rr.com (Tom Randall (KB2SMS))
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 10:57:10 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] "Things that Go Bump in the Night (or Day)!".......
Message-ID: <814DF05C-6C5D-4AF5-9D70-554F71B69612@hvc.rr.com>


  Hi all,
     A few New york meteorite stories and Panther mountain crater (I  
don't live far from it but never heard of this crater!

http://bit.ly/6eGz2B


Happy Holidays to all!

Tom



From bolidechaser at yahoo.com  Sat Dec 12 12:03:30 2009
From: bolidechaser at yahoo.com (Robert Verish)
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 09:03:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Jim Smaller Memorial Meteorite Hunt article
Message-ID: <238279.21846.qm@web51703.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

<http://meteorite-recovery.tripod.com/2009/dec09.htm>

Hello Everyone,

After Paul & Jim posted that the Meteorite-Times was up on Thursday, I made a number of revisions to my article about the Jim Smaller Memorial Meteorite Hunt at Franconia.  If you revisit this webpage, make sure that you "click" your browser's "Refresh" or "Reload" in order to get the revised version.

It was great to make new friends and meet old friends (people that I've emailed but never met) and renew old friendships. 

And thanks to Mark Bowling and Jim Shorten for sharing your images.
Bob V.

----------------

[meteorite-list] Meteorite-Times for December now up
Paul Harris paul at meteorite.com
Thu Dec 10 19:00:17 EST 2009


Hello Everyone,

The December issue of Meteorite-Times is now up.
http://www.meteorite-times.com/meteorite_frame.htm

Enjoy,

Paul and Jim 



From abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com  Sat Dec 12 12:09:33 2009
From: abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com (Abdelaziz Alhyane)
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 09:09:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA clearance sale AD
Message-ID: <289808.28162.qm@web45404.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Dear List Members,

 Up for sale at very competitive price, 2 lots, 10kg and 12kg. prices and pics on request, off list please.

Best regards

Aziz 

Abdelaziz Alhyane
Taliouine 83500
Morocco
http://www.tourisme-nomade.com
http://saharsaffron.com/MoroccanSaffron.htm
http://www.flickr.com/photos/21003651 at N03/


      


From abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com  Sat Dec 12 13:13:24 2009
From: abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com (Abdelaziz Alhyane)
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 10:13:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA clearance sale AD
In-Reply-To: <289808.28162.qm@web45404.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <915420.26382.qm@web45408.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Dear list members,
Just to let you know the lots are sold. looking forward to get some new, keep an eye for my adds.
My best
Aziz

--- On Sat, 12/12/09, Abdelaziz Alhyane <abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Abdelaziz Alhyane <abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA clearance sale AD
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Saturday, December 12, 2009, 9:09 AM
> Dear List Members,
> 
>  Up for sale at very competitive price, 2 lots, 10kg and
> 12kg. prices and pics on request, off list please.
> 
> Best regards
> 
> Aziz 
> 
> Abdelaziz Alhyane
> Taliouine 83500
> Morocco
> http://www.tourisme-nomade.com
> http://saharsaffron.com/MoroccanSaffron.htm
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/21003651 at N03/
> 
> 
> ? ? ? 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      


From darryl at dof3.com  Sat Dec 12 13:52:57 2009
From: darryl at dof3.com (Darryl Pitt)
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 13:52:57 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Forest City
Message-ID: <E4064C0A-2689-40F2-81DB-0D05812BD2AB@dof3.com>



Greetings List:

Attempting to roughly ascertain what Forest City sells for these days  
and a web search has provided little direction.

Any and all input would be most appreciated.  Thanks so much.


All best / Darryl







From cojack at tiscali.it  Sat Dec 12 13:54:03 2009
From: cojack at tiscali.it (Francesco Moser)
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 19:54:03 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] Peter Kummel email
References: <001b01ca79e0$cca87df0$07b22959@name86d88d87e2>
Message-ID: <68E659232B3644DDAE45EA60E2D1D6E0@fisso>

Hello!
I'm looking for the e-amil address of Peter Kummel !
Could someone help me?

Thanks a lot!

<>X<>X<>X<>X<>
Francesco Moser
IMCA #1510



From cynapse at charter.net  Sat Dec 12 15:53:34 2009
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 15:53:34 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Not OT-- set our journals free!
In-Reply-To: <289808.28162.qm@web45404.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
References: <289808.28162.qm@web45404.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ne08i5hf3knvjqlegmet2roc4a8682rl59@4ax.com>

We've all seen it-- some new paper (on meteorites or not) comes out from a
publicly funded entity, paid by US taxpayers, but to read the paper, you must
pay an obscene fee (such as $20 to have access to 1 article for 24 hours-- or
some similar rate-- from _Science_.)

Here's a chance to give TPTB a little feedback on that:

http://pandasthumb.org/archives/2009/12/comment-on-acce.html


From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com  Sat Dec 12 16:04:16 2009
From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton)
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 13:04:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Meteorites for sale - a few ebay items end in
	3 hours
Message-ID: <578164.59085.qm@web46406.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Hi to all, hope everyone is having a good day.

I have some really nice material listed on ebay, some great deals also.
I have some listings ending in less then 4 hours.
10% off any ebay item that is sold off ebay. This saves me fees and you money(Auctions not included)
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZwanderingstarmeteoritesQQhtZ-1

There is a nice little set that includes many type samples such as Winonaite, Diogenite, CV3, Lunar, Martian and others for only $50 current bid, but with a lot of watchers, might me a good deal for someone!

Thanks for looking,

Greg C.
www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com
IMCA 4682


      


From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com  Sat Dec 12 19:50:02 2009
From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold)
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 16:50:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] (AD) the final round/ freebies
Message-ID: <972713.20787.qm@web57801.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Hello list.Just got home after working a 10 hour day/ 64 hour week.Im tired.All the freebie tektites will be out next week sometime so watch your mail box.36 people are?getting christmas presents.I have also put together 1 final sale of meteorites.Most are common,but for someone who does not have any or would like them to start a collection,these would be the ones.So with out further ado here we go. VACA MUERTA 6 grams?? $40, GAO 10 gram individual,$40,CANYON DIABLO, 15 grams, $25,henbury, 13 grams,$25, tatahouine,1 gram $10, a beautiful fully crusted unclassified stone 31 grams, $30, and finally a 58 gram slice of SANTA DO VITORIA PALMAR $250.These are not part of the half price I invoked the other day.I still have the 2 gaos for $37.50 and the nwa 047 for $25.Those are the half price for those pieces.Also free shipping as usual.
?Steve R. Arnold, Chicago!! 


From moutinho at bol.com.br  Sat Dec 12 21:15:43 2009
From: moutinho at bol.com.br (=?utf-8?Q?Andr=C3=A9_Moutinho?=)
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 00:15:43 -0200
Subject: [meteorite-list] Burkina Faso dealer
Message-ID: <4b244e4fe4864_9ac527167c670@winter15.tmail>

?

Hello, does anyone can indicate a reliable meteorite dealer from Burkina Faso?

Thanks

Andre

?


From info at meteorites.com.au  Sun Dec 13 02:51:16 2009
From: info at meteorites.com.au (Jeff Kuyken)
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 18:51:16 +1100
Subject: [meteorite-list] Whites MXT
Message-ID: <DEA227EBB8C248CB980B9A73F8AEC645@JeffPC>

Hi all,

Just wondering if anyone here uses (or has used) a Whites MXT detector? If 
so are they any good not just for meteorites but also gold and relics?

Thanks,

Jeff 



From saharagems at yahoo.com  Sun Dec 13 09:18:58 2009
From: saharagems at yahoo.com (Stalder Thomas)
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 06:18:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Some nice & fresh small NWA xxx individuals
Message-ID: <308890.83057.qm@web44909.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Hi List members,

I've just update my website with some nice and fresh NWA xxx unclassified meteorites for sale. All are coming from the well known "spacejewels collection" here in Switzerland. So you can be sure to get good quality met's !!!

If interested, please visit one of the two pages on my website:

http://www.saharagems.com/id49.html

and

http://www.saharagems.com/id63.html

Please contact me offlist (use the contact link on my website). Shipping fees may vary from buyers location and the size of the meteorites.

Thank you and have a great week.
Best regards,
Thomas Stalder

www.saharagems.com


      


From mjmazur at gmail.com  Sun Dec 13 11:43:42 2009
From: mjmazur at gmail.com (Michael Mazur)
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 17:43:42 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] SALE - 192g Moss and 159g Hambleton
Message-ID: <cbdefd770912130843h3f7a0118q7584b87f61eda48e@mail.gmail.com>

For anyone who may be interested, I have large pieces of both Moss
(CO3.5) and Hambleton (Pallasite) currently listed on Ebay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&Item=170416693146
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&Item=170416304736

Both auctions close in less than 2 days.

Mike


From tinbider at yahoo.co.uk  Sun Dec 13 12:11:36 2009
From: tinbider at yahoo.co.uk (Aubrey Whymark)
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 17:11:36 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] worlds biggest tektite in history
In-Reply-To: <70baf8d20912120812h45fa8efds48476cfed72e79d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <543932.77702.qm@web28515.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

Thanks for the link Phil! I need to update the site a little actually, but it still makes good reading!

I was emailed about this tektite a couple of days before it was listed. I told him it was a Muong Nong, but he seems to want to compare it to splashforms. This is a good size Muong Nong-type, but nowhere near a world record breaker!

Aubrey
www.tektites.co.uk


--- On Sat, 12/12/09, Phil Morgan <roxfromspace at gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Phil Morgan <roxfromspace at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] worlds biggest tektite in history
> To: "Jason Utas" <meteoritekid at gmail.com>
> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Saturday, 12 December, 2009, 16:12
> For any interested in this topic,
> Aubrey Whymark has a nice page on
> large tektites here http://www.tektites.co.uk/largest_tektites.html.
> 
> You owe it to yourself to have a look at the rest of his
> site as well.
>  It's very comprehensive.
> 
> FYI,
> Phil
> 
> On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 5:21 AM, Jason Utas <meteoritekid at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Hello Steve, All,
> > I've hear tell (and seen photos) of a Muong Nong
> layered tektite in
> > the 40-50kg range in Thailand, but the asking price
> was around a
> > dollar a gram. ?They do come big, but they're rarely
> seen above about
> > a kilo or so.
> > Regards,
> > Jason
> >
> > On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 4:11 AM, steve arnold
> > <stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> >> Good early morning list.Got to put in another?10
> hour day.Last of a 65 hour week.Hey I noticed on ebay
> someone is selling a 3.8 kilo tektite.I s it possible to be
> that big?I've seen them many hundreds of grams but not 7
> lbs. I s it really possible??????
> >> ?Steve R. Arnold, Chicago!!
> >> ______________________________________________
> >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> >> Meteorite-list mailing list
> >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >>
> > ______________________________________________
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      


From oxytropidoceras at cox.net  Sun Dec 13 12:26:07 2009
From: oxytropidoceras at cox.net (oxytropidoceras at cox.net)
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 12:26:07 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Indian scientists detect signs of life on Moon
Message-ID: <20091213122607.E3EVN.169826.imail@eastrmwml43>

Indian scientists detect signs of life on Moon by Bhargavi Kerur, 
DNA, Read the World, december 12, 2009

http://www.dnaindia.com/scitech/report_indian-scientists-detect-signs-of-life-on-moon_1322785

Life on the moon, The Irish Times, December 12, 2009

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2009/1212/1224260586652.html

Sounds like a reporter is getting carried away with his imagination.

Does anyone know anything about the claim in the first article that:

"However, traces of amino acids, which are basic to life, 
were found in the soil retrieved by the Apollo-11 astronauts."?

Yours,

Paul H.


From tinbider at yahoo.co.uk  Sun Dec 13 12:34:05 2009
From: tinbider at yahoo.co.uk (Aubrey Whymark)
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 17:34:05 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Not OT-- set our journals free!
Message-ID: <335360.30662.qm@web28508.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

Hi

I thought that anything paid for by the US taxpayer had to be public access - hence all the NASA articles available free.

Personally the standard $30 charge a paper disgusts me and serves to obstruct science. You used to be able to buy paper copies much cheaper - now they are online you would think they would be cheaper - but instead they are 10 times more expensive! $30 for one A4 page!?! I try and get my papers from geological/astronomical libraries or second hand books/journals. Buying digital copies would bankrupt me - and it annoys me because tax payers funded the research and these companies extort the profit. With the decline in print copies it won't be long before online purchase is the only option and then with these giants like Elsevier we will all suffer and private researchers will be no more. If Elsevier or other big publishers want to hold the copyright then they should pay for the ENTIRE research / Ph.D. - if they don't then the article should be publicly available if funded by the public. I hope there are new laws on copyright before scientific articles are
 only available to the very wealthy. No problems with a $10-15 charge to cover costs plus some profit, but these prices are crazy. I've complained, but I never get a reply! Maybe it is time that people refuse to publish with these guys and go with journals that offer free or cheap online access (but still peer reviewed) - at least people could then afford to read the article. Now there's an idea for a webpage!

Regards, Aubrey
www.tektites.co.uk




--- On Sat, 12/12/09, Darren Garrison <cynapse at charter.net> wrote:

> From: Darren Garrison <cynapse at charter.net>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Not OT-- set our journals free!
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Saturday, 12 December, 2009, 20:53
> We've all seen it-- some new paper
> (on meteorites or not) comes out from a
> publicly funded entity, paid by US taxpayers, but to read
> the paper, you must
> pay an obscene fee (such as $20 to have access to 1 article
> for 24 hours-- or
> some similar rate-- from _Science_.)
> 
> Here's a chance to give TPTB a little feedback on that:
> 
> http://pandasthumb.org/archives/2009/12/comment-on-acce.html
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>



      


From oxytropidoceras at cox.net  Sun Dec 13 12:38:11 2009
From: oxytropidoceras at cox.net (Paul H.)
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 12:38:11 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] worlds biggest tektite in history
Message-ID: <20091213123811.9QAA4.169922.imail@eastrmwml43>

Phil Morgan wrote:

"For any interested in this topic, Aubrey Whymark has a nice page on
large tektites here http://www.tektites.co.uk/largest_tektites.html ."

Has  anyone tried plotting the locations of the largest known tektites?

It seems like, their distribution, especially of the Muong Nong-type 
tektites, would provide some clues about the type and location of
the impact that created them.

Best Regrads,

Paul H.


From grf2 at comcast.net  Sun Dec 13 13:11:24 2009
From: grf2 at comcast.net (Jerry Flaherty)
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 13:11:24 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] somewhat OT but very cool
Message-ID: <D54FC42478DF46DA8CB7EE6ECA3A3C7C@ASUS>

http://www.chromoscope.net/ 


From grf2 at comcast.net  Sun Dec 13 13:22:11 2009
From: grf2 at comcast.net (Jerry Flaherty)
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 13:22:11 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] geminids
Message-ID: <05EFC8C98DEA414DBBCFDB4507645798@ASUS>

NE's  clouded out hope others have good luck 


From mqfowler at mac.com  Sun Dec 13 14:30:31 2009
From: mqfowler at mac.com (Michael Fowler)
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 13:30:31 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Indian scientists detect signs of life on Moon
Message-ID: <D35D14BA-FE11-4A97-B084-82FB7640BED9@mac.com>

Finding organics on the moon is one thing, Extrapolating life is quite another.  Reporters get so carried away by these reports.  I wonder, are they always that gullible, or do they sensationalize to keep the ratings and readership up?

Could there be organics on the moon?  Of course!  Ever hear of carbonaceous chondrites?  They have organic (carbon based) compounds in abundance and even amino acids.  Do you suppose it is possible that the moon gets bombarded by carbonaceous meteorites?  Could a reporter know this?  Maybe.  Should a scientist know this?
Should I continue......

Does that mean there is life on the Moon?   I'll let you decide.

Sincerely,

Mike Fowler
Chicago

PS  I've been wanting to thank Paul a long time for providing links to so many interesting scientific articles.




> Indian scientists detect signs of life on Moon by Bhargavi Kerur, 
> DNA, Read the World, december 12, 2009 
> 
> http://www.dnaindia.com/scitech/report_indian-scientists-detect-signs-of-life-on-moon_1322785 
> 
> Life on the moon, The Irish Times, December 12, 2009 
> 
> http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2009/1212/1224260586652.html 
> 
> Sounds like a reporter is getting carried away with his imagination. 
> 
> Does anyone know anything about the claim in the first article that: 
> 
> "However, traces of amino acids, which are basic to life, 
> were found in the soil retrieved by the Apollo-11 astronauts."? 
> 
> Yours, 
> 
> Paul H. 


From pshugar at clearwire.net  Sun Dec 13 15:03:32 2009
From: pshugar at clearwire.net (Pete Shugar)
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 14:03:32 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Indian scientists detect signs of life on Moon
References: <D35D14BA-FE11-4A97-B084-82FB7640BED9@mac.com>
Message-ID: <43F61F97F8E64DB39128858E0E55E48A@laptop>

Yes there was life on the  moon!!!!
Apollo 11 astronauts
Apollo 12 astronauts
Apollo 14 astronauts
Apollo 15 astronauts
Apollo 16 astronauts, and lastbut not least,
Apollo 17 astronauts
I rest my case
Pete

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michael Fowler" <mqfowler at mac.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Cc: "Michael Fowler" <mqfowler at mac.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2009 1:30 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Indian scientists detect signs of life on Moon


> Finding organics on the moon is one thing, Extrapolating life is quite 
> another.  Reporters get so carried away by these reports.  I wonder, are 
> they always that gullible, or do they sensationalize to keep the ratings 
> and readership up?
>
> Could there be organics on the moon?  Of course!  Ever hear of 
> carbonaceous chondrites?  They have organic (carbon based) compounds in 
> abundance and even amino acids.  Do you suppose it is possible that the 
> moon gets bombarded by carbonaceous meteorites?  Could a reporter know 
> this?  Maybe.  Should a scientist know this?
> Should I continue......
>
> Does that mean there is life on the Moon?   I'll let you decide.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Mike Fowler
> Chicago
>
> PS  I've been wanting to thank Paul a long time for providing links to so 
> many interesting scientific articles.
>
>
>
>
>> Indian scientists detect signs of life on Moon by Bhargavi Kerur,
>> DNA, Read the World, december 12, 2009
>>
>> http://www.dnaindia.com/scitech/report_indian-scientists-detect-signs-of-life-on-moon_1322785
>>
>> Life on the moon, The Irish Times, December 12, 2009
>>
>> http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2009/1212/1224260586652.html
>>
>> Sounds like a reporter is getting carried away with his imagination.
>>
>> Does anyone know anything about the claim in the first article that:
>>
>> "However, traces of amino acids, which are basic to life,
>> were found in the soil retrieved by the Apollo-11 astronauts."?
>>
>> Yours,
>>
>> Paul H.
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From epgrondine at yahoo.com  Sun Dec 13 15:22:54 2009
From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine)
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 12:22:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Willamette, again
Message-ID: <620953.88473.qm@web36906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi all - 

A couple more points to consider: 

1) When considering Willamette, consider how Greece is after the British Museum for the Elgin Marbles, and Egypt is after the British Museum for the Rosetta Stone and after the Germans for Nefertiti's bust. You may not think this applies, but GR is a sovereign nation as well (that's why they have the casino). Ordinary US commercial law may not apply.

2) From what I know of practices in the East, about the only use parts of slices are appropriate for is for wear around the neck on deer skin strings. I don't know if this holds for the GR peoples. It might offset the slicing, perhaps Matt may want to contact them about this possibility as a way out, but only if all that he had were offered, with cost recovery and any profit used appropriately.

3) Darryl has his view of the GR-AMNH settlement, but it looks to me like rent, with the main mass to be returned when practicable. I'm no lawyer, but I feel that AMNH kind of left Darryl in a really bad spot.

4) As Darryl has already learned, dealing Native American artifacts can bring "Maeche Katet", really bad luck. That's why experienced stone artifact collectors never dig graves or village sites, but rely on field finds or village sites that are being lost to other causes. 

If any of you meteorite hunters ever find a meteorite in what turns out to be a Native American site during your hunts, perhaps the best thing to do would be either to leave it there, or make sure it gets into the hands of the sites current caretakers. 

5) As Martin has pointed out, if state or federal laws are put in place, it could really cripple meteorite recovery and science.

E.P. Grondine
Man and Impact in the Americas

 




      


From nakhladog at comcast.net  Sun Dec 13 15:58:58 2009
From: nakhladog at comcast.net (Rob Wesel)
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 12:58:58 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Another dozen coming to a close
Message-ID: <595044322C5B456B91CC6B1CE3F83591@windows9bb74fe>

Hello all

Another round of no reserve action ending in a few hours.
The usual suspects include Camel Donga, Chergach, Gao, some mesosiderite, an 
awesome shock melt L4 and more.

http://shop.ebay.com/nakhladog/m.html

Be well,

Rob Wesel
www.nakhladogmeteorites.com
www.facebook.com/nakhladog
------------------
We are the music makers...
and we are the dreamers of the dreams.
Willy Wonka, 1971




From abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com  Sun Dec 13 16:07:59 2009
From: abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com (Abdelaziz Alhyane)
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 13:07:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] FB group NWA meteorites
Message-ID: <253166.60368.qm@web45412.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Dear List Members,

 I just created a group on Facebook named NWA meteorites, some friend on here are already joined the group and I invite all of you to do so at :

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=201893903852&ref=nf

This group is all about NWA meteorites, finds, falls, dealers, availability, sales....etc

I hope all Moroccan dealer will joing the group.

Thank you for joining us
Aziz


      


From darryl at dof3.com  Sun Dec 13 16:53:40 2009
From: darryl at dof3.com (Darryl Pitt)
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 16:53:40 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Willamette / New Chapter
Message-ID: <BF9E051A-A87F-4358-B85C-D5ED22428004@dof3.com>





My Friend....List.....

I do not wish to appear rude, but I can't engage further on this topic  
for some time.

As it regards your two emails below....

There is nothing in the settlement which refers to the meteorite being  
returned or "returned when practicable."  This is sheer invention.    
And just do you're on the same page, even a rental would put a  
financial value on the specimen---which the Grand Ronde said they  
would never do.

I have not experienced bad luck as a result of having been caught in  
the Willamette imbroglio.  My luck or lack thereof is due a life  
filled with debauchery.  ;-)  Seriously, I know you don't mean to be  
offensive, Ed, but it is kind of offensive to speculate on the cause  
and effect on the trajectory in a person's life---especially when you  
know so little of that life.   And bad things do happen to good  
people, and you must admit it's myopic and ethnocentric for  
attribution to bad news and tragedy to be tethered to your beliefs.

In any event,  there is now clarity that specimens of the Willamette  
meteorite can be owned free and clear without worry of any legal issues.


All best to you, and to everyone....

.....and best of luck!



On Dec 13, 2009, at 3:22 PM, E.P. Grondine wrote:

> Hi all -
>
> A couple more points to consider:
>
> 1) When considering Willamette, consider how Greece is after the  
> British Museum for the Elgin Marbles, and Egypt is after the British  
> Museum for the Rosetta Stone and after the Germans for Nefertiti's  
> bust. You may not think this applies, but GR is a sovereign nation  
> as well (that's why they have the casino). Ordinary US commercial  
> law may not apply.
>
> 2) From what I know of practices in the East, about the only use  
> parts of slices are appropriate for is for wear around the neck on  
> deer skin strings. I don't know if this holds for the GR peoples. It  
> might offset the slicing, perhaps Matt may want to contact them  
> about this possibility as a way out, but only if all that he had  
> were offered, with cost recovery and any profit used appropriately.
>
> 3) Darryl has his view of the GR-AMNH settlement, but it looks to me  
> like rent, with the main mass to be returned when practicable. I'm  
> no lawyer, but I feel that AMNH kind of left Darryl in a really bad  
> spot.
>
> 4) As Darryl has already learned, dealing Native American artifacts  
> can bring "Maeche Katet", really bad luck. That's why experienced  
> stone artifact collectors never dig graves or village sites, but  
> rely on field finds or village sites that are being lost to other  
> causes.
>
> If any of you meteorite hunters ever find a meteorite in what turns  
> out to be a Native American site during your hunts, perhaps the best  
> thing to do would be either to leave it there, or make sure it gets  
> into the hands of the sites current caretakers.
>
> 5) As Martin has pointed out, if state or federal laws are put in  
> place, it could really cripple meteorite recovery and science.
>
> E.P. Grondine
> Man and Impact in the Americas
>
>

On Dec 13, 2009, at 3:40 PM, E.P. Grondine wrote:

> Hi Darryl -
>
> Since the AMNH was built around the Willamette, and it could not be  
> moved without tearing down the building, the agreement reached seems  
> reasonable.
>
> But didn't the agreement also include a promise to return the main  
> mass when practicable?
>
> As for the Portland Oregonian article, you have to consider AIM as  
> well as the GR leadership. If that is not enough, consider that AIM  
> has registered chapters and unregistered chapters.
>
> I still feel that the AMNH left you holding the bag, and I wish  
> everyone the best of luck in coming to a good resolution.
>
> Ed






>
> --- On Fri, 12/11/09, Darryl Pitt <darryl at dof3.com> wrote:
>
>> From: Darryl Pitt <darryl at dof3.com>
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Willamette / New Chapter
>> To: "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
>> Cc: mail at mhmeteorites.com, meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com 
>> , "Adam List" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>, countdeiro at earthlink.net 
>> , "Steve Dunklee" <sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com>, "Jason Utas" <meteoritekid at gmail.com 
>> >
>> Date: Friday, December 11, 2009, 12:49 PM
>> E.P.,
>>
>> Steve's explanation is speculation, and I don't agree that
>> speculating as to possible motives is the way to proceed
>> here.  New problems and misunderstandings will be
>> created---as if there haven't been enough already.
>> ;-)   And while I appreciate your support, it
>> also really is not accurate to state that future purchasers
>> are left hanging in the wind.
>>
>> And so....
>>
>> BRIEF RECENT LEGAL HISTORY OF THE WILLAMETTE METEORITE --
>> WITH A NEW CHAPTER FOR WILLAMETTE HISTORY BUFFS
>>
>>
>> In 1999, the Confederated Tribes of the Grand Ronde filed a
>> NAGPRA (Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation
>> Act) claim to have the Willamette meteorite returned to
>> Oregon.  In a written statement, Tracy Dugan, a
>> spokeswoman for the Grand Ronde explained, "The Confederated
>> Tribes is shocked that the American Museum of Natural
>> History insists upon illegally keeping this important sacred
>> object which belongs to the history and culture of the Grand
>> Ronde Tribes."  It was further written in the NAGPRA
>> claim, "The only acceptable resolution of this matter will
>> be through the unconditional repatriation of the Willamette
>> Meteorite."
>>
>> In 2000, the American Museum of Natural History did not
>> address the NAGPRA claim and instead filed a lawsuit in
>> federal court against the Grand Ronde requesting a
>> declaratory judgement.  In the Museum's claim, it was
>> stated that this matter does not fit the parameters of a
>> NAGPRA case.
>>
>> Months later the parties settled. The meteorite remained
>> where it was and the Museum provided the Grand Ronde
>> signage, paid internships and an annual private visit.
>>
>> In 2007, just prior to the Bonhams auction in which the
>> crown section of Willamette was being offered, an editorial
>> appeared in the Portland Oregonian, which stated:
>>
>> "The Grand Ronde don't have time before this month's
>> auction to file a claim for return of the piece in Pitt's
>> possession, but potential buyers ought to beware: There just
>> might be a lawsuit looming.  It would seem to us the
>> Grand Ronde tribes have an extremely strong case under the
>> 1990 federal law intended to help Native Americans reclaim
>> cultural and religious objects.   Whoever
>> buys the precious chunk of meteorite should consider
>> offering a settlement like the museum did. And they should
>> promise never to cut the sacred piece of Tomanowos."
>>
>> I was outraged.
>>
>> 1.  The Oregonian stated that the "museum offered a
>> settlement," and nothing could be further from the
>> truth.  The museum sued the Grand Ronde in federal
>> court in response to the Grand Ronde's NAGPRA claim, and the
>> Grand Ronde backed off their claim.
>>
>> 2.  As the Grand Ronde stated in their NAGPRA claim
>> that the only solution was the "unconditional repatriation"
>> of the meteorite, and as this did not occur, how is it that
>> the largest newspaper in Oregon could state that the Grand
>> Ronde suddenly had a strong case?
>>
>> 3.  The notion of "not having enough time" to file
>> additional legal action was also fatuous.  The Grand
>> Ronde was aware of my possession of this meteorite specimen
>> for at least five years. In addition, I publicly auctioned
>> many other specimens, sales which were extensively covered
>> by the media--which included statements by the Grand
>> Ronde--without a lawsuit or a threat of a lawsuit;
>>
>> 4.  Who was the Oregonian's source about there not
>> being enough time to file legal action?  It would have
>> to be someone at the Grand Ronde, right?  But the Grand
>> Ronde stated on their website there would be no legal
>> action.  Could this "editorial" have been phoned in by
>> a rogue tribe member with clout?
>>
>> Did I mention that the Grand Ronde is the Portland
>> Oregonian's largest advertiser?
>>
>> Two days later the newspaper published an apology for their
>> false claims and issued a retraction, "The Grand Ronde has
>> no intention of filing a lawsuit."  The Grand Ronde
>> also stated, "Legal action was never contemplated, and there
>> will be no action taken."
>>
>> As the Portland Oregonian attacked me for a "lack of
>> class,"  I publicly suggested that given the string of
>> untruthful statements made by the newspaper, and in light of
>> the ad revenues provided by the Grand Ronde which enrich the
>> newspaper, it seemed clear that if the Portland Oregonian
>> had any class, they would acquire the specimen and provide
>> it to the Grand Ronde.
>>
>> The Portland Oregonian made no effort to do so.
>>
>> All best  / Darryl
>>
>> And now I need to make the effort to not address this any
>> further for at least the next several months  ;-)
>
>> On Dec 11, 2009, at 10:43 AM, E.P. Grondine wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Steve -
>>>
>>> You may have it, what the GR lawyers and leaders are
>> thinking. In any case, the AMNH left Darryl hanging in the
>> wind, AS WELL AS ANY FUTURE PURCHASERS.
>>>
>>> PS - Jason, I hope Steve's explanation makes this
>> clearer to you.
>>>
>>> I also hope an honorable and acceptable way out
>> appears. I hope the AMNH steps up to the plate.
>>>
>>> E.P. Grondine
>>> Man and Impact in the Americas
Depth of Field Management  | 1501 Broadway  Suite 1304  |  New York,  
New York  10036  |  212.302.9200







From deanbessey at yahoo.com  Sun Dec 13 16:51:09 2009
From: deanbessey at yahoo.com (dean bessey)
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 13:51:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Whites MXT + Minelab Explorer SE Pro
In-Reply-To: <DEA227EBB8C248CB980B9A73F8AEC645@JeffPC>
Message-ID: <881341.60506.qm@web56103.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Becides that one does anybody have any opinions on the Minelab Explorer SE Pro
Details here:
http://www.kellycodetectors.com/minelab/explorerSE_pro-buy.htm
Thanks
DEAN


--- On Sat, 12/12/09, Jeff Kuyken <info at meteorites.com.au> wrote:

> From: Jeff Kuyken <info at meteorites.com.au>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Whites MXT
> To: "Meteorite List" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Received: Saturday, 12 December, 2009, 11:51 PM
> Hi all,
> 
> Just wondering if anyone here uses (or has used) a Whites
> MXT detector? If so are they any good not just for
> meteorites but also gold and relics?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Jeff 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      


From epgrondine at yahoo.com  Sun Dec 13 17:12:20 2009
From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine)
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 14:12:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Willamette: The agreement
Message-ID: <828404.86212.qm@web36902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi Darryl, all - 

I agree we need to move on. 

All I knew of the wording of the GR/AMNH agreement I read here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willamette_Meteorite

The GR may have interpreted the display clause one way, the AMNH another. 

I think you have found yourself in an unfortunate situation. I hope that if a good way out comes to you, you recognize it when it appears.

Ed



      


From news at chladnis-heirs.com  Sun Dec 13 17:39:19 2009
From: news at chladnis-heirs.com (Chladnis Heirs)
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 23:39:19 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Unique Martian NWA 5990 - Smaller Pieces
	desired?
In-Reply-To: <001b01ca79e0$cca87df0$07b22959@name86d88d87e2>
References: <001b01ca79e0$cca87df0$07b22959@name86d88d87e2>
Message-ID: <006301ca7c45$2d48bdd0$07b22959@name86d88d87e2>

Good Afternoon list,

we received several emails with list-members expressing their disappointment
or sadness that they'd not able to add this really exciting Martian material
to their collection, because the offered specimens are somewhat too mighty.

Aye, it's a dilemma. We had almost no small cuts, neither many crumbs broke
loose while cutting and on the other hand, with such important material of
such a low tkw, we feel always somewhat guilty, if we produce too much cut
loss. 

Indeed it is somewhat unfair..
Well, in a Christmassy mood, what do you think about the idea, to sacrifice
one slice, in cutting it down to more budget-friendly servings?
A kind of a pool - if enough collectors will raise their fingers, so that a
complete slice can be moved, we could slaughter it, perhaps with a 100/g
spread to compensate the cut loss and the pain. 
That said (and of course having in mind, that it's quite the most inadequate
time of the year for offering such a bomb - but most of you know our often
liberal payment policy),

just send a PM and we will see and try our best.

Winterly Greetings,

Stefan & Martin

Chladni's Heirs
Munich - Berlin
Fine Meteorites for Science & Collectors
http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/



-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Chladnis
Heirs
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 10. Dezember 2009 22:36
An: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Betreff: [meteorite-list] AD: Unique and Uncommon new Martian - NWA 5990

Dear collectors,

today it is highest time to introduce our new ? not only in our eyes ? quite
sensational planetary recovery.
NWA 5990. A new Martian, remarkably distinct from the so far known finds.

Before cutting it was a relatively small stone of only 59 grams, coated with
an unweathered black fusion crust with some indications of flight marks,
which seemed to have spalled of on one corner by impacting the ground. The
stone felt somewhat heavier than one would expect for a planetary one.

Here you have a picture of the intact mass:

http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/uncut-mainm-klein.jpg


The first cut then revealed the outstanding nature of that small stone.
The overall fresh appearance of the exterior was trumped by the pristinely
looking cross section and you may comprehend our sudden elatedness, if you
take a look at this picture of the unpolished cut surface:

http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/6.995g-end-kl.jpg


As you can see, that stone looks simply different from all other Martians we
know. 
Well, with the numerous partially blackened olivines, one could tend to
think into the direction of a lherzolithe, but it turned out, that the stone
contains by far too much plagioclase to be lherzolithic. The grain size
however fits to a diabase.


That material is currently under analyses with a high priority at Dr.Irving,
Dr.Herd et al. - and perhaps as early as in January an abstract will be
already available. 
Therefore we beg for your understanding, that we can't forecast the exciting
results, but have to leave the first publication to the researchers, avidly
working on that surprising material.
Maybe the one or other being already the proud owner of a slice will share
his/her observations here in this thread with us instead.

And here starts our dilemma - you may wonder, why we go public with this new
Martian already without being able to name and explain the particularities
and specifics of this new material - especially so shortly before a paper is
scheduled; also it is planned to introduce the stone at the next Lunar &
Planetary Science Conference in Houston in beginning March..

Well the reason is simple - until then the material will have been
completely gone and you would have to miss out that important new Martian.

As the tkw was so low and this unique meteorite has such a scientific
brisance, we had of course to address firstly to research institutes, like
we had to do with NWA 5789 too. Afterwards we supplied the Martian
enthusiasts from our address book (and we cordially recommend and invite the
planetary specialists to contact us, if they want to be added there too).

So in the end and at present there are only two specimens left!


Half a fullslice with fusion crust.   2.338g 
Price is 1600$/g

http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/2_338g.jpg


And a crusted partial endcut.         1.908g 
at 1500$/g

http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/1_908g_endcut.jpg

http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/1_908g-end2.jpg





Else there would be only these two pieces, but they are on hold for a
museum, the negotiations aren't finished yet.
So most probably they won't be available.

A cap of the stone with a lot of crust and flight marks.
(Largest intact piece, hence depending on definitions the "main mass"):
http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/6.955g-end2-kl.jpg

http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/6.995g-end-kl.jpg


And a partslice.
http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/2_055g.jpg


If these specimens will have been gone, not a single grain of the stone will
remain available.


We hope you're as fascinated as we are from that new Christmas greeting from
the Red Planet and wish you a peaceful time.

Stefan Ralew & Martin Altmann

Chladni's Heirs
Munich - Berlin
Fine Meteorites for Science & Collectors
http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/






______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com  Sun Dec 13 18:59:48 2009
From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold)
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 15:59:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] garys L3/ JOE'S "WRONG
Message-ID: <78649.7330.qm@web57804.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Hi list.I just got gary fujihara's L3 type unclassed slice.It is a killer.It even came in a small membrane case.It kind reminds me of the "chondrule conglomerate" light.It is a beauty.Also joe kerchners 75 gram endcut meteorwrong also came.It sure could pass for a meteorite.This seems to have all the nessesary elements to be a meteorite.If you do not have a piece,you should get one just for the sure beauty of it.Also after the first of the year I might offering up my 44 gram slice of WILLISTON,NORTH DAKOTA.So stay tuned on that.
?Steve R. Arnold, Chicago!! 


From epgrondine at yahoo.com  Sun Dec 13 15:40:25 2009
From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine)
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 12:40:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Willamette / New Chapter
In-Reply-To: <21F0A7F5-BD69-4DE9-AEC3-B9E0CAE42FB7@dof3.com>
Message-ID: <675164.17699.qm@web36903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi Darryl - 

Since the AMNH was built around the Willamette, and it could not be moved without tearing down the building, the agreement reached seems reasonable. 

But didn't the agreement also include a promise to return the main mass when practicable?  

As for the Portland Oregonian article, you have to consider AIM as well as the GR leadership. If that is not enough, consider that AIM has registered chapters and unregistered chapters.

I still feel that the AMNH left you holding the bag, and I wish everyone the best of luck in coming to a good resolution.

Ed

--- On Fri, 12/11/09, Darryl Pitt <darryl at dof3.com> wrote:

> From: Darryl Pitt <darryl at dof3.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Willamette / New Chapter
> To: "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
> Cc: mail at mhmeteorites.com, meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com, "Adam List" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>, countdeiro at earthlink.net, "Steve Dunklee" <sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com>, "Jason Utas" <meteoritekid at gmail.com>
> Date: Friday, December 11, 2009, 12:49 PM
> E.P.,
> 
> Steve's explanation is speculation, and I don't agree that
> speculating as to possible motives is the way to proceed
> here.  New problems and misunderstandings will be
> created---as if there haven't been enough already. 
> ;-)   And while I appreciate your support, it
> also really is not accurate to state that future purchasers
> are left hanging in the wind.
> 
> And so....
> 
> BRIEF RECENT LEGAL HISTORY OF THE WILLAMETTE METEORITE --
> WITH A NEW CHAPTER FOR WILLAMETTE HISTORY BUFFS
> 
> 
> In 1999, the Confederated Tribes of the Grand Ronde filed a
> NAGPRA (Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation
> Act) claim to have the Willamette meteorite returned to
> Oregon.  In a written statement, Tracy Dugan, a
> spokeswoman for the Grand Ronde explained, "The Confederated
> Tribes is shocked that the American Museum of Natural
> History insists upon illegally keeping this important sacred
> object which belongs to the history and culture of the Grand
> Ronde Tribes."  It was further written in the NAGPRA
> claim, "The only acceptable resolution of this matter will
> be through the unconditional repatriation of the Willamette
> Meteorite."
> 
> In 2000, the American Museum of Natural History did not
> address the NAGPRA claim and instead filed a lawsuit in
> federal court against the Grand Ronde requesting a
> declaratory judgement.  In the Museum's claim, it was
> stated that this matter does not fit the parameters of a
> NAGPRA case.
> 
> Months later the parties settled. The meteorite remained
> where it was and the Museum provided the Grand Ronde
> signage, paid internships and an annual private visit.
> 
> In 2007, just prior to the Bonhams auction in which the
> crown section of Willamette was being offered, an editorial
> appeared in the Portland Oregonian, which stated:
> 
> "The Grand Ronde don't have time before this month's
> auction to file a claim for return of the piece in Pitt's
> possession, but potential buyers ought to beware: There just
> might be a lawsuit looming.  It would seem to us the
> Grand Ronde tribes have an extremely strong case under the
> 1990 federal law intended to help Native Americans reclaim
> cultural and religious objects.   Whoever
> buys the precious chunk of meteorite should consider
> offering a settlement like the museum did. And they should
> promise never to cut the sacred piece of Tomanowos."
> 
> I was outraged.
> 
> 1.  The Oregonian stated that the "museum offered a
> settlement," and nothing could be further from the
> truth.  The museum sued the Grand Ronde in federal
> court in response to the Grand Ronde's NAGPRA claim, and the
> Grand Ronde backed off their claim.
> 
> 2.  As the Grand Ronde stated in their NAGPRA claim
> that the only solution was the "unconditional repatriation"
> of the meteorite, and as this did not occur, how is it that
> the largest newspaper in Oregon could state that the Grand
> Ronde suddenly had a strong case?
> 
> 3.  The notion of "not having enough time" to file
> additional legal action was also fatuous.  The Grand
> Ronde was aware of my possession of this meteorite specimen
> for at least five years. In addition, I publicly auctioned
> many other specimens, sales which were extensively covered
> by the media--which included statements by the Grand
> Ronde--without a lawsuit or a threat of a lawsuit;
> 
> 4.  Who was the Oregonian's source about there not
> being enough time to file legal action?  It would have
> to be someone at the Grand Ronde, right?  But the Grand
> Ronde stated on their website there would be no legal
> action.  Could this "editorial" have been phoned in by
> a rogue tribe member with clout?
> 
> Did I mention that the Grand Ronde is the Portland
> Oregonian's largest advertiser?
> 
> Two days later the newspaper published an apology for their
> false claims and issued a retraction, "The Grand Ronde has
> no intention of filing a lawsuit."  The Grand Ronde
> also stated, "Legal action was never contemplated, and there
> will be no action taken."
> 
> As the Portland Oregonian attacked me for a "lack of
> class,"  I publicly suggested that given the string of
> untruthful statements made by the newspaper, and in light of
> the ad revenues provided by the Grand Ronde which enrich the
> newspaper, it seemed clear that if the Portland Oregonian
> had any class, they would acquire the specimen and provide
> it to the Grand Ronde.
> 
> The Portland Oregonian made no effort to do so.
> 
> All best  / Darryl
> 
> And now I need to make the effort to not address this any
> further for at least the next several months  ;-)

> On Dec 11, 2009, at 10:43 AM, E.P. Grondine wrote:
> 
> > Hi Steve -
> > 
> > You may have it, what the GR lawyers and leaders are
> thinking. In any case, the AMNH left Darryl hanging in the
> wind, AS WELL AS ANY FUTURE PURCHASERS.
> > 
> > PS - Jason, I hope Steve's explanation makes this
> clearer to you.
> > 
> > I also hope an honorable and acceptable way out
> appears. I hope the AMNH steps up to the plate.
> > 
> > E.P. Grondine
> > Man and Impact in the Americas
> > 
> > --- On Fri, 12/11/09, Steve Dunklee <sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> > 
> >> From: Steve Dunklee <sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com>
> >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Willamette
> >> Date: Friday, December 11, 2009, 3:37 AM
> > 
> >> The GR most likely did not respond
> >> due to the nature of the current legal process. I
> would
> >> compare it to buying your stolen item from a pawn
> shop. the
> >> pawn shop did not know the item was hot and made a
> legal
> >> purchase. which would also place a monetary value
> on the
> >> main mass. They can not buy a piece without
> putting thier
> >> claim to the main mass in jeopardy. there may also
> be a gag
> >> order in the case by the Judge which would prevent
> them from
> >> responding.
> > 
> >> instead of trying to have the GR buy the piece it
> >> should be returned to the seller with a request
> for a
> >> refund, as the original sale/trade was illegal.
> > 
> >> its like sayinmg to them "hey i just bought your
> stolen car! would you like to buy it back?"
> > 
> >> have a great day
> >> Steve
> >> 
> >> --- On Thu, 12/10/09, E.P. Grondine <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> 
> >>> From: E.P. Grondine <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
> >>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Willamette
> >>> To: mail at mhmeteorites.com,
> >> meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com,
> >> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com,
> >> countdeiro at earthlink.net
> >>> Date: Thursday, December 10, 2009, 9:29 AM
> >>> Matt -
> >>> 
> >>> Just my opinion but it is likely that the
> slicing was
> >> a
> >>> further desecration in their view, so their
> lack of
> >> response
> >>> comes as no surprise.
> >>> 
> >>> I don't think Count Deiro's advice is very
> good. I
> >> would
> >>> suggest contacting them again - perhaps parts
> of the
> >> slice
> >>> could be used by them in an appropriate
> manner.
> >>> 
> >>> Ed
> >>> 
> >>> --- On Wed, 12/9/09, countdeiro at earthlink.net
> >>> <countdeiro at earthlink.net>
> >>> wrote:
> >>> 
> >>>> From: countdeiro at earthlink.net
> >>> <countdeiro at earthlink.net>
> >>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Willamette
> >>>> To: mail at mhmeteorites.com,
> >>> "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine at yahoo.com>,
> >>> meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com,
> >>> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >>>> Date: Wednesday, December 9, 2009, 11:11
> PM
> >>>> The Grand Ronde band of American
> >>>> Indians own the largest and most
> profitable
> >>> hotel/casino in
> >>>> Oregon. Anybody who is at least 1/8th GR
> gets a
> >>> percentage
> >>>> every month . I wouldn't bother either.
> >>>> Count Deiro
> >>>> 
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>> From: Matt Morgan <mail at mhmeteorites.com>
> >>>>> Sent: Dec 9, 2009 11:04 PM
> >>>>> To: "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine at yahoo.com>,
> >>>> meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com,
> >>>> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list]
> Willamette
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> FYI, I offered the GR a generous slice
> of my
> >>> Willamette
> >>>> and they didn't even respond to me. 
> If I were
> >>> Darryl,
> >>>> I wouldn't even bother.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> Matt Morgan
> >>>>> ------Original Message------
> >>>>> From: E.P. Grondine
> >>>>> Sender: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> >>>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list]
> Willamette
> >>>>> Sent: Dec 9, 2009 8:44 PM
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> Darryl -
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> May I suggest to you that perhaps it
> would be
> >> best
> >>> to
> >>>> find a buyer for the Willamette piece who
> wanted
> >> a tax
> >>> write
> >>>> off for gifting it back to the Grand
> Ronde
> >> peoples? I
> >>> don't
> >>>> know their financial situation, or plans,
> but I
> >> would
> >>>> suggest contacting their elders as well
> before
> >> doing
> >>>> anything.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> E.P. Grondine
> >>>>> Man and Impact in the Americas
> 
> 
> 
> 


      


From darryl at dof3.com  Sun Dec 13 16:29:31 2009
From: darryl at dof3.com (Darryl Pitt)
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 16:29:31 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Willamette / New Chapter
In-Reply-To: <675164.17699.qm@web36903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <675164.17699.qm@web36903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2D4CAEC9-BDC8-4B51-84EB-D8EA6D766E64@dof3.com>




My Friend....List.....

I do not wish to appear rude, but I will not engage further on this  
topic for some time.

As it regards your two emails below....

There is nothing in the settlement which refers to the meteorite being  
returned or "returned when practicable."  This is sheer invention.    
And just do you're on the same page, even a rental would put a  
financial value on the specimen---which the Grand Ronde said they  
would never do.

I have not experienced bad luck as a result of having been caught in  
the Willamette imbroglio.  My luck or lack thereof is due a life  
filled with debauchery.  ;-)  Seriously, I know you don't mean to be  
offensive, Ed, but it is kind of offensive to speculate on the cause  
and effect on the trajectory in a person's life---especially when you  
know so little of that life.   And bad things do happen to good  
people, and you must admit it's myopic and ethnocentric for  
attribution to bad news and tragedy to be tethered to your beliefs.

In any event,  there is now clarity that specimens of the Willamette  
meteorite can be owned free and clear without worry of any legal issues.


All best to you, and to everyone....

.....and best of luck!



On Dec 13, 2009, at 3:22 PM, E.P. Grondine wrote:

> Hi all -
>
> A couple more points to consider:
>
> 1) When considering Willamette, consider how Greece is after the  
> British Museum for the Elgin Marbles, and Egypt is after the British  
> Museum for the Rosetta Stone and after the Germans for Nefertiti's  
> bust. You may not think this applies, but GR is a sovereign nation  
> as well (that's why they have the casino). Ordinary US commercial  
> law may not apply.
>
> 2) From what I know of practices in the East, about the only use  
> parts of slices are appropriate for is for wear around the neck on  
> deer skin strings. I don't know if this holds for the GR peoples. It  
> might offset the slicing, perhaps Matt may want to contact them  
> about this possibility as a way out, but only if all that he had  
> were offered, with cost recovery and any profit used appropriately.
>
> 3) Darryl has his view of the GR-AMNH settlement, but it looks to me  
> like rent, with the main mass to be returned when practicable. I'm  
> no lawyer, but I feel that AMNH kind of left Darryl in a really bad  
> spot.
>
> 4) As Darryl has already learned, dealing Native American artifacts  
> can bring "Maeche Katet", really bad luck. That's why experienced  
> stone artifact collectors never dig graves or village sites, but  
> rely on field finds or village sites that are being lost to other  
> causes.
>
> If any of you meteorite hunters ever find a meteorite in what turns  
> out to be a Native American site during your hunts, perhaps the best  
> thing to do would be either to leave it there, or make sure it gets  
> into the hands of the sites current caretakers.
>
> 5) As Martin has pointed out, if state or federal laws are put in  
> place, it could really cripple meteorite recovery and science.
>
> E.P. Grondine
> Man and Impact in the Americas
>
>

On Dec 13, 2009, at 3:40 PM, E.P. Grondine wrote:

> Hi Darryl -
>
> Since the AMNH was built around the Willamette, and it could not be  
> moved without tearing down the building, the agreement reached seems  
> reasonable.
>
> But didn't the agreement also include a promise to return the main  
> mass when practicable?
>
> As for the Portland Oregonian article, you have to consider AIM as  
> well as the GR leadership. If that is not enough, consider that AIM  
> has registered chapters and unregistered chapters.
>
> I still feel that the AMNH left you holding the bag, and I wish  
> everyone the best of luck in coming to a good resolution.
>
> Ed






>
> --- On Fri, 12/11/09, Darryl Pitt <darryl at dof3.com> wrote:
>
>> From: Darryl Pitt <darryl at dof3.com>
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Willamette / New Chapter
>> To: "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
>> Cc: mail at mhmeteorites.com, meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com 
>> , "Adam List" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>, countdeiro at earthlink.net 
>> , "Steve Dunklee" <sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com>, "Jason Utas" <meteoritekid at gmail.com 
>> >
>> Date: Friday, December 11, 2009, 12:49 PM
>> E.P.,
>>
>> Steve's explanation is speculation, and I don't agree that
>> speculating as to possible motives is the way to proceed
>> here.  New problems and misunderstandings will be
>> created---as if there haven't been enough already.
>> ;-)   And while I appreciate your support, it
>> also really is not accurate to state that future purchasers
>> are left hanging in the wind.
>>
>> And so....
>>
>> BRIEF RECENT LEGAL HISTORY OF THE WILLAMETTE METEORITE --
>> WITH A NEW CHAPTER FOR WILLAMETTE HISTORY BUFFS
>>
>>
>> In 1999, the Confederated Tribes of the Grand Ronde filed a
>> NAGPRA (Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation
>> Act) claim to have the Willamette meteorite returned to
>> Oregon.  In a written statement, Tracy Dugan, a
>> spokeswoman for the Grand Ronde explained, "The Confederated
>> Tribes is shocked that the American Museum of Natural
>> History insists upon illegally keeping this important sacred
>> object which belongs to the history and culture of the Grand
>> Ronde Tribes."  It was further written in the NAGPRA
>> claim, "The only acceptable resolution of this matter will
>> be through the unconditional repatriation of the Willamette
>> Meteorite."
>>
>> In 2000, the American Museum of Natural History did not
>> address the NAGPRA claim and instead filed a lawsuit in
>> federal court against the Grand Ronde requesting a
>> declaratory judgement.  In the Museum's claim, it was
>> stated that this matter does not fit the parameters of a
>> NAGPRA case.
>>
>> Months later the parties settled. The meteorite remained
>> where it was and the Museum provided the Grand Ronde
>> signage, paid internships and an annual private visit.
>>
>> In 2007, just prior to the Bonhams auction in which the
>> crown section of Willamette was being offered, an editorial
>> appeared in the Portland Oregonian, which stated:
>>
>> "The Grand Ronde don't have time before this month's
>> auction to file a claim for return of the piece in Pitt's
>> possession, but potential buyers ought to beware: There just
>> might be a lawsuit looming.  It would seem to us the
>> Grand Ronde tribes have an extremely strong case under the
>> 1990 federal law intended to help Native Americans reclaim
>> cultural and religious objects.   Whoever
>> buys the precious chunk of meteorite should consider
>> offering a settlement like the museum did. And they should
>> promise never to cut the sacred piece of Tomanowos."
>>
>> I was outraged.
>>
>> 1.  The Oregonian stated that the "museum offered a
>> settlement," and nothing could be further from the
>> truth.  The museum sued the Grand Ronde in federal
>> court in response to the Grand Ronde's NAGPRA claim, and the
>> Grand Ronde backed off their claim.
>>
>> 2.  As the Grand Ronde stated in their NAGPRA claim
>> that the only solution was the "unconditional repatriation"
>> of the meteorite, and as this did not occur, how is it that
>> the largest newspaper in Oregon could state that the Grand
>> Ronde suddenly had a strong case?
>>
>> 3.  The notion of "not having enough time" to file
>> additional legal action was also fatuous.  The Grand
>> Ronde was aware of my possession of this meteorite specimen
>> for at least five years. In addition, I publicly auctioned
>> many other specimens, sales which were extensively covered
>> by the media--which included statements by the Grand
>> Ronde--without a lawsuit or a threat of a lawsuit;
>>
>> 4.  Who was the Oregonian's source about there not
>> being enough time to file legal action?  It would have
>> to be someone at the Grand Ronde, right?  But the Grand
>> Ronde stated on their website there would be no legal
>> action.  Could this "editorial" have been phoned in by
>> a rogue tribe member with clout?
>>
>> Did I mention that the Grand Ronde is the Portland
>> Oregonian's largest advertiser?
>>
>> Two days later the newspaper published an apology for their
>> false claims and issued a retraction, "The Grand Ronde has
>> no intention of filing a lawsuit."  The Grand Ronde
>> also stated, "Legal action was never contemplated, and there
>> will be no action taken."
>>
>> As the Portland Oregonian attacked me for a "lack of
>> class,"  I publicly suggested that given the string of
>> untruthful statements made by the newspaper, and in light of
>> the ad revenues provided by the Grand Ronde which enrich the
>> newspaper, it seemed clear that if the Portland Oregonian
>> had any class, they would acquire the specimen and provide
>> it to the Grand Ronde.
>>
>> The Portland Oregonian made no effort to do so.
>>
>> All best  / Darryl
>>
>> And now I need to make the effort to not address this any
>> further for at least the next several months  ;-)
>
>> On Dec 11, 2009, at 10:43 AM, E.P. Grondine wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Steve -
>>>
>>> You may have it, what the GR lawyers and leaders are
>> thinking. In any case, the AMNH left Darryl hanging in the
>> wind, AS WELL AS ANY FUTURE PURCHASERS.
>>>
>>> PS - Jason, I hope Steve's explanation makes this
>> clearer to you.
>>>
>>> I also hope an honorable and acceptable way out
>> appears. I hope the AMNH steps up to the plate.
>>>
>>> E.P. Grondine
>>> Man and Impact in the Americas
>>>
>>> --- On Fri, 12/11/09, Steve Dunklee <sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> From: Steve Dunklee <sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Willamette
>>>> Date: Friday, December 11, 2009, 3:37 AM
>>>
>>>> The GR most likely did not respond
>>>> due to the nature of the current legal process. I
>> would
>>>> compare it to buying your stolen item from a pawn
>> shop. the
>>>> pawn shop did not know the item was hot and made a
>> legal
>>>> purchase. which would also place a monetary value
>> on the
>>>> main mass. They can not buy a piece without
>> putting thier
>>>> claim to the main mass in jeopardy. there may also
>> be a gag
>>>> order in the case by the Judge which would prevent
>> them from
>>>> responding.
>>>
>>>> instead of trying to have the GR buy the piece it
>>>> should be returned to the seller with a request
>> for a
>>>> refund, as the original sale/trade was illegal.
>>>
>>>> its like sayinmg to them "hey i just bought your
>> stolen car! would you like to buy it back?"
>>>
>>>> have a great day
>>>> Steve
>>>>
>>>> --- On Thu, 12/10/09, E.P. Grondine <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> From: E.P. Grondine <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Willamette
>>>>> To: mail at mhmeteorites.com,
>>>> meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com,
>>>> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com,
>>>> countdeiro at earthlink.net
>>>>> Date: Thursday, December 10, 2009, 9:29 AM
>>>>> Matt -
>>>>>
>>>>> Just my opinion but it is likely that the
>> slicing was
>>>> a
>>>>> further desecration in their view, so their
>> lack of
>>>> response
>>>>> comes as no surprise.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't think Count Deiro's advice is very
>> good. I
>>>> would
>>>>> suggest contacting them again - perhaps parts
>> of the
>>>> slice
>>>>> could be used by them in an appropriate
>> manner.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ed
>>>>>
>>>>> --- On Wed, 12/9/09, countdeiro at earthlink.net
>>>>> <countdeiro at earthlink.net>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> From: countdeiro at earthlink.net
>>>>> <countdeiro at earthlink.net>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Willamette
>>>>>> To: mail at mhmeteorites.com,
>>>>> "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine at yahoo.com>,
>>>>> meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com,
>>>>> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>>> Date: Wednesday, December 9, 2009, 11:11
>> PM
>>>>>> The Grand Ronde band of American
>>>>>> Indians own the largest and most
>> profitable
>>>>> hotel/casino in
>>>>>> Oregon. Anybody who is at least 1/8th GR
>> gets a
>>>>> percentage
>>>>>> every month . I wouldn't bother either.
>>>>>> Count Deiro
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: Matt Morgan <mail at mhmeteorites.com>
>>>>>>> Sent: Dec 9, 2009 11:04 PM
>>>>>>> To: "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine at yahoo.com>,
>>>>>> meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com,
>>>>>> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list]
>> Willamette
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> FYI, I offered the GR a generous slice
>> of my
>>>>> Willamette
>>>>>> and they didn't even respond to me.
>> If I were
>>>>> Darryl,
>>>>>> I wouldn't even bother.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Matt Morgan
>>>>>>> ------Original Message------
>>>>>>> From: E.P. Grondine
>>>>>>> Sender: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list]
>> Willamette
>>>>>>> Sent: Dec 9, 2009 8:44 PM
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Darryl -
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> May I suggest to you that perhaps it
>> would be
>>>> best
>>>>> to
>>>>>> find a buyer for the Willamette piece who
>> wanted
>>>> a tax
>>>>> write
>>>>>> off for gifting it back to the Grand
>> Ronde
>>>> peoples? I
>>>>> don't
>>>>>> know their financial situation, or plans,
>> but I
>>>> would
>>>>>> suggest contacting their elders as well
>> before
>>>> doing
>>>>>> anything.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> E.P. Grondine
>>>>>>> Man and Impact in the Americas
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>



From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Sun Dec 13 20:27:49 2009
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 17:27:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] MRO HiRISE Images - December 11, 2009
Message-ID: <200912140127.nBE1RnCU000108@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>



MARS RECONNAISSANCE ORBITER HIRISE IMAGES
December 11, 2009

o Faulting in Amazonis Planitia 
  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_001578_2000
 
o Light Layered Deposits in Valles Marineris
  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_001456_1695

o Layers in Gale Crater Central Mound
  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_001422_1750

o Impact Crater Filled with Layered Deposits
  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_001410_2210

o Martian Barchans
  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_014404_1765


All of the HiRISE images are archived here:

http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/

Information about the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter is 
online at http://www.nasa.gov/mro. The mission is 
managed by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, a division 
of the California Institute of Technology, for the NASA 
Science Mission Directorate, Washington, D.C. Lockheed 
Martin Space Systems, of Denver, is the prime contractor 
and built the spacecraft. HiRISE is operated by the 
University of Arizona. Ball Aerospace and Technologies 
Corp., of Boulder, Colo., built the HiRISE instrument.



From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Sun Dec 13 20:25:20 2009
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 17:25:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] MRO HiRISE Images - December 11, 2009
Message-ID: <200912140125.nBE1PK7P029123@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>


MARS ODYSSEY THEMIS IMAGES
December 7-11, 2009

o Sirenum Fossae (07 December 2009)
  http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20091207a

o Nirgal Vallis (08 December 2009)
  http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20091208a

o Terra Cimmeria Dunes (09 December 2009)
  http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20091209a

o Ceraunius Tholus (10 December 2009)
  http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20091210a

o Dunes (11 December 2009)
  http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20091211a


All of the THEMIS images are archived here:

http://themis.asu.edu/latest.html

NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory manages the 2001 Mars Odyssey mission 
for NASA's Office of Space Science, Washington, D.C. The Thermal Emission 
Imaging System (THEMIS) was developed by Arizona State University,
Tempe, in co.oration with Raytheon Santa Barbara Remote Sensing. 
The THEMIS investigation is led by Dr. Philip Christensen at Arizona State 
University. Lockheed Martin Astronautics, Denver, is the prime contractor 
for the Odyssey project, and developed and built the orbiter. Mission 
operations are conducted jointly from Lockheed Martin and from JPL, a 
division of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena. 





From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Sun Dec 13 20:23:11 2009
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 17:23:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars Exploration Rovers Update: Nov 29 - Dec 9,
	2009
Message-ID: <200912140123.nBE1NBYF028255@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>


http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/mission/status.html

SPIRIT UPDATE:  Trouble with Right-Rear Wheel - sols 2100-2110, 
Nov.  29 - Dec. 9, 2009:

Spirit remains embedded in the location called "Troy" on the west side
of Home Plate.

Diagnostic tests from Sol 2109 (Dec. 8, 2009) on Spirit's right-rear
wheel indicate a troubled wheel. The right-rear wheel rotor resistance
tests continue to show very elevated resistance. No motion of the
right-rear wheel occurred during a backward commanded motion test. The
rotor resistances on all the other operating wheels are nominal.

The plan ahead includes more rotor resistance tests, application of
higher voltage to the right-rear wheel to see if any movement will
occur, and a check of the right-front wheel to confirm its status and to
see if it may offer insight into the right-rear wheel's condition.

As of Sol 2110 (Dec. 9, 2009), Spirit's solar-array energy production is
298 watt-hours, with an atmospheric opacity (tau) of 0.517 and a dust
factor of 0.563. Total odometry is 7,730.00 meters (4.80 miles).

------------------------------------------------------------------------

OPPORTUNITY UPDATE:  Another Side of 'Marquette' - sols 2080-2090,
Nov. 29 - Dec. 10, 2009:

Opportunity has been investigating a rock known as "Marquette Island."

On Sol 2086 (Dec. 6, 2009), the rover backed away and then drove about 5
meters (16 feet) around Marquette Island to image other parts of the
rock. On Sol 2089 (Dec. 9, 2009), Opportunity performed a 5-meter
(16-foot) approach to the rock to position the rover for an in-situ
(contact) study of a different part of the rock than it had touched
earlier. On the next sol, the robotic arm (instrument deployment device,
or IDD) collected a mosaic of images by the microscopic imager (MI) and
then placed the alpha particle X-ray spectrometer (APXS) on a new
location on the rock for a long integration.

The elevation mirror shroud of the miniature thermal emission
spectrometer (Mini-TES) is being opened when appropriate with the
expectation of eventual dust cleaning. No dust cleaning of the Mini-TES
mirror has been noted yet.

As of Sol 2090 (Dec. 10, 2009), Opportunity's solar-array energy
production is 359 watt-hours, with an atmospheric opacity (tau) of 0.498
and a dust factor of 0.529. Total odometry is 18,917.41 meters (11.75
miles).



From abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com  Sun Dec 13 21:56:17 2009
From: abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com (Abdelaziz Alhyane)
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 18:56:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list]  FB group NWA meteorites
In-Reply-To: <253166.60368.qm@web45412.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <532842.56703.qm@web45402.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Dear List Member,
 Already got 28 members joined, some have added great pics, you are welcome this is your group where you can share you photos, post your adds, ask for informations ......ect
To join, follow this linke : 
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=201893903852&ref=nf
Best regards
Aziz

--- On Sun, 12/13/09, Abdelaziz Alhyane <abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Abdelaziz Alhyane <abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] FB group NWA meteorites
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Sunday, December 13, 2009, 1:07 PM
> Dear List Members,
> 
>  I just created a group on Facebook named NWA meteorites,
> some friend on here are already joined the group and I
> invite all of you to do so at :
> 
> http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=201893903852&ref=nf
> 
> This group is all about NWA meteorites, finds, falls,
> dealers, availability, sales....etc
> 
> I hope all Moroccan dealer will joing the group.
> 
> Thank you for joining us
> Aziz
> 
> 
> ? ? ? 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      


From skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com  Sun Dec 13 23:50:11 2009
From: skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com (Joe Kerchner)
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 20:50:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorwrongs
In-Reply-To: <5E9F3C350F3F48C995E949229EE98AC9@laptop>
References: <5E9F3C350F3F48C995E949229EE98AC9@laptop>
Message-ID: <751152.66524.qm@web43415.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Thanks Pete, others,
 I have had a couple other tell me they are very pleased with their stones. I am very happy you are pleased with your piece.
    I had posted a few more pieces for sale, some very nice pieces have been listed. After the pieces that are up now are gone, I think almost all the pieces I got left are around 10 grams or less, mayby just a couple larger ones, none very big at all. If you see something you like on the for sale page, you may want to buy it now, they have been selling very quick after I post new ones. I hope everyone who wants some is able to get some. 
   Here is the link again:
http://illinoismeteorites.com/mendotawrongsforsale.htm

Best Wishes,
Joe Kerchner



----- Original Message ----
From: Pete Shugar <pshugar at clearwire.net>
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Sat, December 12, 2009 12:03:29 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorwrongs

If you have not gotten your meteorwrong from Joe,
you seriously need to get one.
This is the most realistic wrong on the planet. It has metal,
pseudo chrondrules, shock veins, metal inclusions, a very realistic
matrix, what will pass for fusion crust, and it just looks
like the real deal.
I defey you to just look at it without any magnifying glasses
or other means of analysis, save only a magnet.
and say it's what ever the heck it is.
That's just the thing----what the heck is it?
I dunno, but it sure looks like the real thing.
Pete 
______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



      



From gmhupe at htn.net  Mon Dec 14 02:37:03 2009
From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 02:37:03 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] HUGE Chondrule - Auction Ending & Others - AD
Message-ID: <9ECA68AA1D5A493890DC7517219F5DA0@Gregor>

Dear List Members,

Later today (Monday, December 14th), I have some nice eBay auctions ending. 
The meteorite with the HUGE Chondrule (NWA 5486) was relisted with a much 
lower opening price!

Here is the direct link to NWA 5486 "One-of-a-Kind":
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350288888136&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT

Here's the short list of what will be ending, most with no bids or just at 
the 99-cent opening bid, plenty of Planetary and Achondrites will be GIVEN 
AWAY at holiday deals!!
~ Angrites
~ Brachinites
~ CK5
~ Diogenites
~ Irons
~ Lodranites
~ Lunars
~ Martians
~ Unclassified NWA's at lowered pricing from last listing
* I even have some shark teeth auctions to help take a healthy bite out of 
the prices! ;-)

Click here for my current eBay auctions: 
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault

Thank you for bidding and/or looking, much appreciated!!

Best regards,
Greg

====================
Greg Hupe
The Hupe Collection
NaturesVault (eBay)
gmhupe at htn.net
www.LunarRock.com
IMCA 3163
====================
Click here for my current eBay auctions: 
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault




From info at mcomemeteorite.it  Mon Dec 14 10:12:46 2009
From: info at mcomemeteorite.it (M come Meteorite Meteorites)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 16:12:46 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Alfianello Best Offer
Message-ID: <4b2655ee.171.1d16.1030705400@webmaildh6.ad.aruba.it>

I sale a 20.4 gr. end piece of Alfianello with copy of old
labels to the best offer, the person offer high value win.
Photo on request

Matteo


M come Meteorite Meteoriti
info at mcomemeteorite.it
http://www.mcomemeteorite.it
http://www.mcomemeteorite.org
Mindat Gallery
http://www.mindat.org/gallery-5018.html
ChinellatoPhoto Servizi Fotografici
http://www.chinellatophoto.com
--------------------------------------
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From tinbider at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Dec 14 10:42:01 2009
From: tinbider at yahoo.co.uk (Aubrey Whymark)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 15:42:01 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] worlds biggest tektite in history -Not
In-Reply-To: <20091213123811.9QAA4.169922.imail@eastrmwml43>
Message-ID: <580731.61381.qm@web28506.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

Hi

The biggest Muong Nong-type tektites appear to be in the Laos-NE Thailand border and in Hainan. For sure they are very proximal tektites/impactites. I think the microtektite distribution pattern is a better indicator though as it's going to be statistically more reliable. All the evidence points to the Gulf of Tonkin, between Vietnam and Hainan - probably closer to Vietnam. This is a shallow sea (but might not have been sea at the time of impact, not that it would make a lot of difference). A crater in the sea would explain why a 43km +/- crater has not yet been found. In reality I bet this crater has been found on oil field seismic which should criss-cross the whole of this area. Maybe it hasn't been recognised, maybe the 'structure' has been kept secret because of it's possible economic value or maybe it lies in disputed Vietnamese-Chinese waters. I'm pretty sure it's out there though! I do wonder if any trace of rims would show up on bathymetric maps,
 but there has been a very large sediment input into this area in the last 800,000 years and I would imagine it could easily bury the crater.

Interestingly the largest splashforms are found 2000 km away in the Philippines, not proximally in Indochina as one might first expect. Maybe this is because the Philippinite melt sheet was disrupted higher in the atmosphere meaning that philippinites were not immediately acted upon by significant atmospheric forces. The Indochinites probably formed at lower atmospheric levels that might aid breaking up of the largest of bodies. I'm sure there are a number of factors at play though. Same applies to the Chesapeake impact - the largest splashform tektites are 2000 km away in Texas.

Aubrey



--- On Sun, 13/12/09, Paul H. <oxytropidoceras at cox.net> wrote:

> From: Paul H. <oxytropidoceras at cox.net>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] worlds biggest tektite in history
> To: "meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Date: Sunday, 13 December, 2009, 17:38
> Phil Morgan wrote:
> 
> "For any interested in this topic, Aubrey Whymark has a
> nice page on
> large tektites here http://www.tektites.co.uk/largest_tektites.html ."
> 
> Has? anyone tried plotting the locations of the
> largest known tektites?
> 
> It seems like, their distribution, especially of the Muong
> Nong-type 
> tektites, would provide some clues about the type and
> location of
> the impact that created them.
> 
> Best Regrads,
> 
> Paul H.
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      


From Midwest at Meteorman.org  Mon Dec 14 10:43:20 2009
From: Midwest at Meteorman.org (Timothy  Heitz)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 09:43:20 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Question - Cathedral in Washington D.C. with a
	meteorite?
References: <828404.86212.qm@web36902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <FE44C438EEDE4344BB64830DD23DD4AA@den>

Hello List,

I am wanting to know if anyone here knows the name of the cathedral in 
Washington D.C. that has
a meteorite mounted in a stained glass window


Thanks,
Tim Heitz 



From piebear at cox.net  Mon Dec 14 11:00:34 2009
From: piebear at cox.net (Arlene Schlazer)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 08:00:34 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Question - Cathedral in Washington D.C. with
	ameteorite?
In-Reply-To: <FE44C438EEDE4344BB64830DD23DD4AA@den>
References: <828404.86212.qm@web36902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<FE44C438EEDE4344BB64830DD23DD4AA@den>
Message-ID: <44BB0FE7E7C54C50BD4B781D420B0374@PiePC>

Hi Everyone..... It's the National Cathedral......Arlene
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Timothy Heitz" <Midwest at Meteorman.org>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 7:43 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Question - Cathedral in Washington D.C. with 
ameteorite?


> Hello List,
>
> I am wanting to know if anyone here knows the name of the cathedral in 
> Washington D.C. that has
> a meteorite mounted in a stained glass window
>
>
> Thanks,
> Tim Heitz
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 



From piebear at cox.net  Mon Dec 14 11:07:56 2009
From: piebear at cox.net (Arlene Schlazer)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 08:07:56 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Question - Cathedral in Washington D.C. with
	ameteorite?
In-Reply-To: <FE44C438EEDE4344BB64830DD23DD4AA@den>
References: <828404.86212.qm@web36902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<FE44C438EEDE4344BB64830DD23DD4AA@den>
Message-ID: <2D40C1E49DFD4CF585EE40D55AAD9C24@PiePC>

Hi Tim & List,
I'm posting this again as it appears it didn't go through the first 
time....It's the National Cathedral in Washington DC......Arlene
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Timothy Heitz" <Midwest at Meteorman.org>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 7:43 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Question - Cathedral in Washington D.C. with 
ameteorite?


> Hello List,
>
> I am wanting to know if anyone here knows the name of the cathedral in 
> Washington D.C. that has
> a meteorite mounted in a stained glass window
>
>
> Thanks,
> Tim Heitz
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 



From skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com  Mon Dec 14 11:22:00 2009
From: skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com (Joe Kerchner)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 08:22:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Illinois Meteorwrong Announcement/Sort of Ad
In-Reply-To: <20091205111455.8wuulf7d9zkcc4ow@webmail.localnet.com>
References: <20091205111455.8wuulf7d9zkcc4ow@webmail.localnet.com>
Message-ID: <112432.14565.qm@web43404.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

I posted a few more really nice pieces, take a look. I do not have very much of this material left.

Here is a link to the sale page:  http://illinoismeteorites.com/mendotawrongsforsale.htm

Best Wishes,
Joe K



----- Original Message ----
From: "almitt2 at localnet.com" <almitt2 at localnet.com>
To: Meteorite List <Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Sat, December 5, 2009 10:14:55 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Illinois Meteorwrong Announcement/Sort of Ad

Greetings,

Some of you may remember a while back that Joe Kerchner found some interesting looking specimens while out meteorite hunting. I was involved in helping him get the specimens to a researcher who has determined they are a good meteorwrong but not a meteorite.

Many may remember a number of meteorwrongs we have come a cross in the past like some of the Russian specimens that turned out to be a terrestrial basalt with nickel in it. I feel that Joe's specimens are an excellent meteorwrong and have added a sample to my collection. I thought others might want to contact him and add some also. He is offering some of this material up for sale. I have added a link so you can visit his site and consider some of this material or simply look at it.

http://illinoismeteorites.com/mendotawrongsforsale.htm

You can also contact him here directly. Have fun!


Joe Kerchner      illinoismeteorites at gmail.com

Not too often you come across material that looks so promising like Joe did but still turns out to not be the real McCoy. This is the sort of item that is fun to add to a collection. All my best!

--AL Mitterling
Mitterling Meteorites

______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



      



From raremeteorites at yahoo.com  Mon Dec 14 11:17:21 2009
From: raremeteorites at yahoo.com (Adam Hupe)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 08:17:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - NWA 001 Main Mass and Auctions!
Message-ID: <426059.20026.qm@web30705.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Dear List Members,
 
This week, I am entertaining offers on a very special item; The NWA 001  Main Mass.  This historic meteorite marks the beginning of a new era and is the one that started the meteorite 2.0 club.  There can  only be one serial number "1" and this it. This L6 Chondrite specimen, weighing  in at a 262 grams is the largest NWA 001 piece in existence.  I will accept the  highest reasonable offer or load it on eBay if one fails to materialize. This is  a once in a lifetime opportunity for the serious collector.
 
 
Here are links to this historical specimen.
http://themeteoritesite.com/NWA001-a.jpg
http://themeteoritesite.com/NWA001-b.jpg
http://themeteoritesite.com/NWA001-c.jpg
http://themeteoritesite.com/NWA001-d.jpg
 
Do not forget to check out this weeks eBay auctions.  There is lots of  great stuff started at just 99 cents including many planetary specimens
 
Click on this link for some serious bargains:
http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/raremeteorites!_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZQQ_mdoZ

Thank you for looking and if you are bidding, I wish you the best of  luck,
 
Adam


From abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com  Mon Dec 14 11:26:00 2009
From: abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com (Abdelaziz Alhyane)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 08:26:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Huge NWA Iron, clearance sale AD
Message-ID: <959525.44242.qm@web45401.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Dear List Members,

  Up for sale, a 15250g excellent NWA Iron, it was found in
 Zag region in 2008.

 Pictures here :

 http://www.flickr.com/photos/21003651 at N03/3062814091/sizes/o/
 http://www.flickr.com/photos/21003651 at N03/3062814087/sizes/o/
 http://www.flickr.com/photos/21003651 at N03/3062814103/sizes/o/
 http://www.flickr.com/photos/21003651 at N03/3062814099/sizes/o/
 http://www.flickr.com/photos/21003651 at N03/3062814095/sizes/o/

$11k or best offer.

 My best
 Aziz 


      


From desam07 at hotmail.com  Mon Dec 14 12:14:08 2009
From: desam07 at hotmail.com (HANS D.)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 11:14:08 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD.Gibeon 74.5 kg +
Message-ID: <BAY126-W5E5C329934EC95FF3B8CEB6890@phx.gbl>


Hi list, Huge Gibeon over 74 KG. with free shipping any where in the world.
http://gaiawonders.com/Gibeon.aspx
 
Thanks,
 
Hans Dal Molin
Imca member #6580                                            		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222985/direct/01/

From epgrondine at yahoo.com  Mon Dec 14 12:15:31 2009
From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 09:15:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Ammonia as an impact marker
Message-ID: <133704.48960.qm@web36907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi all - 

At last, not Willamette. 

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2009-12/uok-ksp120909.php

If anyone wants a copy of an image of a cast of the Trempealeau petroglyph, which may show comet fragment impacts, contact me off list.

Wednesday's AGU session promises to be really interesting.

E.P. Grondine
Man and Impact in the Americas




      


From geoking at notkin.net  Mon Dec 14 12:16:18 2009
From: geoking at notkin.net (Notkin)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 10:16:18 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Tucson 2010 Show Website and News
Message-ID: <3F971E68-1FEA-462C-B3AA-CA9D8F8B1CCC@notkin.net>

Dear Listees:

It's hard to believe, but the 2010 Tucson Gem Show is only six weeks  
away. My 2010 gem show guide website has been completely updated and I  
hope those of you coming to Tucson will find it a useful resource:

http://www.tucsongemandmineralshows.net


It includes the following:

- Dates, venues, and contact info for all shows

- Hotel recommendations

- Restaurant, bar and club guide

- Tips on great day trips from Tucson

- Articles, photos, and tips about the shows


I continue to work with the publishers of the Tucson EZ-Guide and we  
recommend this free, full-color book as the best companion for the  
Tucson show experience. Copies can be picked up free from any show  
venue, beginning in late January:

http://www.tucsongemandmineralshows.net/tucson-ez-guide.htm


The 11th Annual Meteor Mayhem Birthday Bash will take place on Friday,  
Feb. 5 and we are working on a rather exciting new venue. Details when  
we have them. As usual, Michael Blood's auction will take place on the  
following day.

Once again, I'll be exhibiting in Room 230 at the InnSuites with the  
fabulous Anne Black. PLEASE NOTE: the hotel name has changed and the  
InnSuites is now known as the Hotel Tucson City Center, for some  
reason. Phone number and address remain the same. I am also pleased to  
announce that my friend Chris Cokinos, author of the wonderful new  
meteorite book "The Fallen Sky" will be doing a book signing and meet- 
and-greet in our room that same weekend. Details TBA.

And FYI: The Tucson gem show is NOT moving to Las Vegas or anywhere  
else  : )

And finally the good news: I-10 highway improvements are finished and  
all downtown exits are open. So, that means just the *usual* traffic  
problems in 2010  : )



With best wishes,

Geoff N.

www.aerolite.org
www.meteoritemen.com
www.meteoriteblog.org




From daistiho at hotmail.com  Mon Dec 14 13:06:19 2009
From: daistiho at hotmail.com (tracy latimer)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 18:06:19 +0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] Indian scientists detect signs of life on Moon
In-Reply-To: <20091213122607.E3EVN.169826.imail@eastrmwml43>
References: <20091213122607.E3EVN.169826.imail@eastrmwml43>
Message-ID: <SNT120-W41E3A35AC4FF2C1BCF616DCA890@phx.gbl>


Organic compounds are found in comets and carbonaceous chondrites; this has been verified many times.? The Moon has undoubtedly been pummeled by this space debris many times in the past, leaving traces behind.? It's a pretty far stretch to call it life, however; you may as well say life exists anywhere you can find these molecules, including airless asteroids and deep-frozen comets.? I don't know if this is reporter hype or simple ignorance.? We've seen both types.

Best!
Tracy Latimer

----------------------------------------
> Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 12:26:07 -0500
> From: oxytropidoceras at cox.net
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Indian scientists detect signs of life on Moon
>
> Indian scientists detect signs of life on Moon by Bhargavi Kerur,
> DNA, Read the World, december 12, 2009
>
> http://www.dnaindia.com/scitech/report_indian-scientists-detect-signs-of-life-on-moon_1322785
>
> Life on the moon, The Irish Times, December 12, 2009
>
> http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2009/1212/1224260586652.html
>
> Sounds like a reporter is getting carried away with his imagination.
>
> Does anyone know anything about the claim in the first article that:
>
> "However, traces of amino acids, which are basic to life,
> were found in the soil retrieved by the Apollo-11 astronauts."?
>
> Yours,
>
> Paul H.
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141665/direct/01/

From daistiho at hotmail.com  Mon Dec 14 13:19:28 2009
From: daistiho at hotmail.com (tracy latimer)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 18:19:28 +0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] SALE - 192g Moss and 159g Hambleton
In-Reply-To: <cbdefd770912130843h3f7a0118q7584b87f61eda48e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cbdefd770912130843h3f7a0118q7584b87f61eda48e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SNT120-W22ADFE360F0E950DC74A2FCA890@phx.gbl>


Hambleton is particularly interesting, as it was found by one of our own, Rob Elliot.? Once Fernlea Meteorites folded, however, I have no idea what happened to either the main mass or any subsequent slices.? At one point I was hoping to buy some crumbs from him, as this pallasite had a very thick oxidized rind and was prone to spalling off fragments.? I'm glad to see there is at least one slice out there!

Best!
Tracy Latimer

----------------------------------------
> Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 17:43:42 +0100
> From: mjmazur at gmail.com
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: [meteorite-list] SALE - 192g Moss and 159g Hambleton
>
> For anyone who may be interested, I have large pieces of both Moss
> (CO3.5) and Hambleton (Pallasite) currently listed on Ebay.
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&Item=170416693146
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&Item=170416304736
>
> Both auctions close in less than 2 days.
>
> Mike
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft?s powerful SPAM protection.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141664/direct/01/

From star-bits at tx.rr.com  Mon Dec 14 13:20:13 2009
From: star-bits at tx.rr.com (star-bits at tx.rr.com)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 13:20:13 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad - eBay auctions closing shortly
In-Reply-To: <BAY126-W5E5C329934EC95FF3B8CEB6890@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <20091214182013.UAYA7.325469.root@cdptpa-web26-z02>

I have a few auctions closing shortly including DAG 400 Lunar unbid at $500/gm, Mundrabilla and silicated iron slices, a 148 gram CV3 unbid at less than $1.70/gm.  See them all and more at

<http://members.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPage&userid=katy2kary>

--
Eric Olson
610 W. Moore Rd
Tucson AZ 85755

http://www.star-bits.com



From raremeteorites at yahoo.com  Mon Dec 14 13:22:27 2009
From: raremeteorites at yahoo.com (Adam Hupe)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 10:22:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Tucson 2010 Show Website and News
Message-ID: <341421.8594.qm@web30702.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Geoff wrote:

And FYI: The Tucson gem show is NOT moving to Las Vegas or anywhere else  : )




I am definitely going to the show this year since it may be of the last.  I would hate to see it leave but do not see the Tucson City council doing anything to make it stay.

NASCAR, the largest spectator sport in the world just moved its annual championship banquet to Las Vegas after spending 30 plus years in New York.  They thought NASCAR would never change this venue and look what happened.  Several large concerns have moved their shows to Las Vegas because they are making unbeatable deals and catering to clients needs more than ever before.

>From what I have heard, Tucson has not lifted a finger to prevent the largest promoter from leaving and taking several thousand vendors with him. Do not underestimate Las Vegas, they have a way of getting what they want and they are already in a position to take.   They are very hungry right now and an additional $100,000,000 in annual revenues is pretty attractive. They could accommodate this show very easily, cater much better to vendor needs and much cheaper. 

Here is the link to NASCAR discussing their move to Las Vegas:
http://www.cbssports.com/autoracing/story/12615099/nascars-las-vegas-banquet-bet-pays-off


I hope the Tucson City Council members take note and makes the Gem and Mineral show a better experience.

Best Regards,

Adam


From icedance at swbell.net  Mon Dec 14 14:07:11 2009
From: icedance at swbell.net (Don Edwards)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 11:07:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Tucson 2010 Show Website and News
In-Reply-To: <341421.8594.qm@web30702.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <547873.40057.qm@web81604.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi all,

> Geoff wrote:
> 
> And FYI: The Tucson gem show is NOT moving to Las Vegas or
> anywhere else? : )

Personally, if the show moves to Las Vegas, I won't go. 

2010 will be my 6th (straight) show, and I have tentative plans to go (to Tucson) for many more years but I won't go to Las Vegas, even once.

Just my personal opinion/reaction to Las Vegas (yes, I've been there on a vacation tour).

Don




From raremeteorites at yahoo.com  Mon Dec 14 14:44:45 2009
From: raremeteorites at yahoo.com (Adam Hupe)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 11:44:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Tucson 2010 Show Website and News
In-Reply-To: <20091214135856.OYE70.188933.imail@fed1rmwml37>
References: <20091214135856.OYE70.188933.imail@fed1rmwml37>
Message-ID: <886328.78986.qm@web30703.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi Carl,

I hope you are right about Tucson.  Las Vegas already has a world class annual gem show, just not a mineral show. There are several Gem and Mineral shows across the world but only one can be the largest.  I saw plenty of empty rooms for vendors at the hotels last year so there was no waiting in line as used to be the case. If Las Vegas wanted to host the world's largest gem and mineral show, I am sure they could do so without much problem.  It would be like taking a sucker away from a baby. So many take great shows for granted, just to lose them when a more reasonable and exciting venue appears.

The Tucson show has been going down hill for years so maybe it is time for the City Council to start listening.  Part of the charm of Tucson was walking from room to room and checking out the goods. Several of the old hotels that could accommodate this kind of foot traffic have been turned into low-income housing. The replacement hotels are not designed with the Gem and Mineral show in mind so the charm is leaving regardless and the show seems to be dying slowly.  Ad in the terrible rise in the crime rate and very few venture out at night like they used to. 

I just want to attend at least one more time before all of the charm is gone or the show has died.  Maybe it isn't too late for something to be done.



Best Regards,

Adam




----- Original Message ----
From: "cdtucson at cox.net" <cdtucson at cox.net>
To: Adam <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>; Adam Hupe <raremeteorites at yahoo.com>
Sent: Mon, December 14, 2009 10:58:56 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Tucson 2010 Show Website and News

Adam,
You may be right but consider this.
Nascar is a one trick pony. It has nobody to replace them. So off they go to Vegas. Seems very wise to me.
Tucson is a completely different animal.
If anyone leaves any venue in Tucson there are ten others in line to take there place.
Seriously. any of the many gem shows leaving Tucson would be suicidal. It would be like venders pulling out of Costco. 
You would have to be an idiot to do that. Like The Tucson Gem show, there would be many in line to take your spot.
After all to be in Costco selling your product means instant success. 
Vegas will never replace Tucson. What would happen if Vegas takes off is that there would be one more gem show to attend. It would never replace Tucson but would add to the chain of 
regularly scheduled shows that dealers would be forced to attend. Potentially doubling overhead and breaking some dealers. 
There are only so many buyers and having two shows might be a bit much.
Besides all that. IMHO. Vegas is for Vegas type stuff. There are only so many black chips to go around. It would be like moving the Gem show to Disneyland. Too many distractions. Peeps don't go to Disneyland to buy rocks and gems. 
No, I think Tucson may be like EBay or Costco. they basically own the market and only a fool would leave. 
And one other thing. Tucson is going to be building yet another bridge across the freeway in the down town area. This will greatly benefit the gem show goers. 
My 2 cents.
Thanks
Carl 
--
Carl or Debbie Esparza
Meteoritemax


---- Adam Hupe <raremeteorites at yahoo.com> wrote: 
> Geoff wrote:
> 
> And FYI: The Tucson gem show is NOT moving to Las Vegas or anywhere else  : )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am definitely going to the show this year since it may be of the last.  I would hate to see it leave but do not see the Tucson City council doing anything to make it stay.
> 
> NASCAR, the largest spectator sport in the world just moved its annual championship banquet to Las Vegas after spending 30 plus years in New York.  They thought NASCAR would never change this venue and look what happened.  Several large concerns have moved their shows to Las Vegas because they are making unbeatable deals and catering to clients needs more than ever before.
> 
> >From what I have heard, Tucson has not lifted a finger to prevent the largest promoter from leaving and taking several thousand vendors with him. Do not underestimate Las Vegas, they have a way of getting what they want and they are already in a position to take.   They are very hungry right now and an additional $100,000,000 in annual revenues is pretty attractive. They could accommodate this show very easily, cater much better to vendor needs and much cheaper. 
> 
> Here is the link to NASCAR discussing their move to Las Vegas:
> http://www.cbssports.com/autoracing/story/12615099/nascars-las-vegas-banquet-bet-pays-off
> 
> 
> I hope the Tucson City Council members take note and makes the Gem and Mineral show a better experience.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Adam
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From ROBERT.D.MATSON at saic.com  Mon Dec 14 14:35:10 2009
From: ROBERT.D.MATSON at saic.com (Matson, Robert D.)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 11:35:10 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Tucson 2010 Show Website and News
In-Reply-To: <547873.40057.qm@web81604.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <341421.8594.qm@web30702.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<547873.40057.qm@web81604.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <7C640E28081AEE4B952F008D1E913F170253082B@0461-its-exmb04.us.saic.com>

Just to counter this view, if the show moved to Vegas, I would go
every year -- and enjoy staying in fabulous hotels at the same price
as a flea-infested 1-star in Tucson during the show. Don't get me
wrong -- I've enjoyed every one of my Tucson visits, but the hotel/
motel price-jacking during the show is a serious sore point with
me. I think we all know what $130/night for a hotel will get you
in Tucson in early February.  For that same price or less, you can
stay in any one of a dozen 4-star hotels on the Strip.  --Rob


-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Don Edwards
Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 11:07 AM
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Tucson 2010 Show Website and News

Hi all,

> Geoff wrote:
> 
> And FYI: The Tucson gem show is NOT moving to Las Vegas or anywhere 
> else? : )

Personally, if the show moves to Las Vegas, I won't go. 

2010 will be my 6th (straight) show, and I have tentative plans to go (to Tucson) for many more years but I won't go to Las Vegas, even once.

Just my personal opinion/reaction to Las Vegas (yes, I've been there on a vacation tour).

Don


From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Mon Dec 14 14:57:27 2009
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 14:57:27 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Tucson 2010 Show Website and News
In-Reply-To: <7C640E28081AEE4B952F008D1E913F170253082B@0461-its-exmb04.us.saic.com>
References: <341421.8594.qm@web30702.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<547873.40057.qm@web81604.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<7C640E28081AEE4B952F008D1E913F170253082B@0461-its-exmb04.us.saic.com>
Message-ID: <e51421550912141157y59293e53ub789ebe0715a227b@mail.gmail.com>

HI Rob,

$130 a night will rent you a 1-bedroom seaside beach cottage down here
in Florida. (a nice one)

Is that really what they charge out there for a little Motel 8 room?

No wonder everyone needs thousands of dollars to attend the show.
When I finally make it out there, I will definitely stay in our RV.

Best regards and clear skies,

MikeG


On 12/14/09, Matson, Robert D. <ROBERT.D.MATSON at saic.com> wrote:
> Just to counter this view, if the show moved to Vegas, I would go
> every year -- and enjoy staying in fabulous hotels at the same price
> as a flea-infested 1-star in Tucson during the show. Don't get me
> wrong -- I've enjoyed every one of my Tucson visits, but the hotel/
> motel price-jacking during the show is a serious sore point with
> me. I think we all know what $130/night for a hotel will get you
> in Tucson in early February.  For that same price or less, you can
> stay in any one of a dozen 4-star hotels on the Strip.  --Rob
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Don
> Edwards
> Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 11:07 AM
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Tucson 2010 Show Website and News
>
> Hi all,
>
>> Geoff wrote:
>>
>> And FYI: The Tucson gem show is NOT moving to Las Vegas or anywhere
>> else  : )
>
> Personally, if the show moves to Las Vegas, I won't go.
>
> 2010 will be my 6th (straight) show, and I have tentative plans to go (to
> Tucson) for many more years but I won't go to Las Vegas, even once.
>
> Just my personal opinion/reaction to Las Vegas (yes, I've been there on a
> vacation tour).
>
> Don
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


-- 
.........................................................
Michael Gilmer (Florida, USA)
Member of the Meteoritical Society.
Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com
FaceBook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale
Twitter - Twitter - http://twitter.com/GalacticStone
eBay - http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/maypickle
..........................................................


From damoclid at yahoo.com  Mon Dec 14 14:56:32 2009
From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 11:56:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Tucson 2010 Show Website and News
In-Reply-To: <7C640E28081AEE4B952F008D1E913F170253082B@0461-its-exmb04.us.saic.com>
Message-ID: <373212.33196.qm@web113606.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Just curious of anyone has heard anything from the organizers of the >>41 other<< Tucson shows about leaving Tucson for LV or is it still just the one high end gem show that we're talking about?

Has there been any update on the threat by that show's organizers since their original one a few months ago? With the exception of Adam, all I've heard is a deafening silence from all involved...


--
Richard Kowalski
http://fullmoonphotography.net
IMCA #1081


      


From lintonius at earthlink.net  Mon Dec 14 15:03:55 2009
From: lintonius at earthlink.net (Linton Rohr)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 12:03:55 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Question - Cathedral in Washington D.C.
	withameteorite?
References: <828404.86212.qm@web36902.mail.mud.yahoo.com><FE44C438EEDE4344BB64830DD23DD4AA@den>
	<2D40C1E49DFD4CF585EE40D55AAD9C24@PiePC>
Message-ID: <9058ECA6B3114ED2AA7B27BAD4BC1345@D190TH71>

Tim,
Arlene's got the name right and it's a great place to visit.
Rather than a meteorite though, it's actually lunar rock presented to the 
Cathedral by the Apollo 11 astronauts! Unless there's a meteorite in 
addition to that. If you search "National Cathedral Space Window", you'll 
get all kinds of info.
The Cathedral gift shop actually sells a small reproduction of the window, 
which I just had to have. ;^)
Linton

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Arlene Schlazer" <piebear at cox.net>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>; "Timothy Heitz" 
<Midwest at Meteorman.org>
Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 8:07 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Question - Cathedral in Washington D.C. 
withameteorite?


> Hi Tim & List,
> I'm posting this again as it appears it didn't go through the first 
> time....It's the National Cathedral in Washington DC......Arlene
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Timothy Heitz" <Midwest at Meteorman.org>
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 7:43 AM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Question - Cathedral in Washington D.C. with 
> ameteorite?
>
>
>> Hello List,
>>
>> I am wanting to know if anyone here knows the name of the cathedral in 
>> Washington D.C. that has
>> a meteorite mounted in a stained glass window
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Tim Heitz
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 



From Impactika at aol.com  Mon Dec 14 15:25:08 2009
From: Impactika at aol.com (Impactika at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 15:25:08 EST
Subject: [meteorite-list] Tucson 2010 Show Website and News
Message-ID: <be3.5667235e.3857f924@aol.com>

Hello Adam and all,
 
Do you know that the Las Vegas Gem Show used to be a full-fledged Rocks and 
Minerals Show years ago? I had many occasions to talk to some of the 
largest mineral dealers doing that Show, and I was told repeatedly that it was a 
very poor Show financially and attendance. Probably because the public was 
distracted by the other "attractions" of Vegas. Maybe it is why it was 
down-sized to a Gem only Show. And I do know a gem dealer who is considering 
dropping it because it is not worth his time.
And if the Tucson Show moves to Vegas, I will probably stop doing it too. 
And Yes, I have been in Vegas many times, it is an amusing place from an 
architectural point of view, and shopping is pretty good, but that's about it.
And I just checked _www.Hotels.com_ (http://www.Hotels.com) , there is 
still half a dozen hotels (Super 8, Comfort Inn,....) with rooms for less than 
$100 a night for the weekend of Feb 4 to Feb. 8. The Big Weekend.
 
Now about the Real Tucson Show. 
I have been very busy preparing it too, Only six weeks!!!!   Time flies.
 
I have way too much inventory, so for the first time ever I will have a 
Sales/Bargains corner with a very wide assortment of things, even a few 
thin-sections.
 
Speaking of Thin-Sections, I will have ET's collection with me in addition 
to my own, so that's about 800 thin-sections. And I might receive another 
batch before the show.
 
And I will have a couple surprises in Exclusivity. More about that very 
soon.
 
And Alain Carion has a new book out just in time for Tucson, and since I 
had the pleasure to translate it, I will have the pleasure to present it in 
Tucson. 
 
And I am sure I am forgetting a lot of other things.
More soon.
 
Anne M. Black
_http://www.impactika.com/_ (http://www.impactika.com/) 
_IMPACTIKA at aol.com_ (mailto:IMPACTIKA at aol.com) 
Vice-President, I.M.C.A. Inc.
_http://www.imca.cc/_ (http://www.imca.cc/) 
 
 
 
 
In a message dated 12/14/2009 11:22:50 AM Mountain Standard Time, 
raremeteorites at yahoo.com writes:
Geoff wrote:

And FYI: The Tucson gem show is NOT moving to Las Vegas or anywhere else  : 
)


I am definitely going to the show this year since it may be of the last.  I 
would hate to see it leave but do not see the Tucson City council doing 
anything to make it stay.

NASCAR, the largest spectator sport in the world just moved its annual 
championship banquet to Las Vegas after spending 30 plus years in New York.  
They thought NASCAR would never change this venue and look what happened.  
Several large concerns have moved their shows to Las Vegas because they are 
making unbeatable deals and catering to clients needs more than ever before.




From raremeteorites at yahoo.com  Mon Dec 14 15:45:03 2009
From: raremeteorites at yahoo.com (Adam Hupe)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 12:45:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Tucson 2010 Show Website and News
In-Reply-To: <be3.5667235e.3857f924@aol.com>
References: <be3.5667235e.3857f924@aol.com>
Message-ID: <625650.67699.qm@web30701.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi Anne,

That is funny.   I have heard from several dealers who do the Tucson the same thing.   They say the income was so poor that they couldn't even make the show fees and that they will never be back again. The only dealers I have not heard complaints from were at the Inn Suites.  They say the same thing year after year but they do keep coming back.  I guess everything is relative.

They only reason I know anything at all about the Las Vegas Gem show is that while on Spring break there a few years ago, I talked to a vendor who became an instant millionaire selling yellow diamonds and bort. He sold out in three days and was enjoying his rewards over some pretty hefty drinks on a sidewalk bar where is he was buying everybody rounds.  I never went that show so I can't speak about how successful it was or if it would even be fun to attend.  The economy is holding back a lot dealers right now so maybe things will be more positive next year.

Do not get me wrong, I hope the Tucson show survives as I can go to Las Vegas any time. I just wish they would improve the show and make it better for patrons who for the most part are now taken for granted.

Best Regards,

Adam







----- Original Message ----
From: "Impactika at aol.com" <Impactika at aol.com>
To: raremeteorites at yahoo.com; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Cc: geoking at notkin.net
Sent: Mon, December 14, 2009 12:25:08 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Tucson 2010 Show Website and News

Hello Adam and all,

Do you know that the Las Vegas Gem Show used to be a full-fledged Rocks and 
Minerals Show years ago? I had many occasions to talk to some of the 
largest mineral dealers doing that Show, and I was told repeatedly that it was a 
very poor Show financially and attendance. Probably because the public was 
distracted by the other "attractions" of Vegas. Maybe it is why it was 
down-sized to a Gem only Show. And I do know a gem dealer who is considering 
dropping it because it is not worth his time.
And if the Tucson Show moves to Vegas, I will probably stop doing it too. 
And Yes, I have been in Vegas many times, it is an amusing place from an 
architectural point of view, and shopping is pretty good, but that's about it.
And I just checked _www.Hotels.com_ (http://www.Hotels.com) , there is 
still half a dozen hotels (Super 8, Comfort Inn,....) with rooms for less than 
$100 a night for the weekend of Feb 4 to Feb. 8. The Big Weekend.

Now about the Real Tucson Show. 
I have been very busy preparing it too, Only six weeks!!!!   Time flies.

I have way too much inventory, so for the first time ever I will have a 
Sales/Bargains corner with a very wide assortment of things, even a few 
thin-sections.

Speaking of Thin-Sections, I will have ET's collection with me in addition 
to my own, so that's about 800 thin-sections. And I might receive another 
batch before the show.

And I will have a couple surprises in Exclusivity. More about that very 
soon.

And Alain Carion has a new book out just in time for Tucson, and since I 
had the pleasure to translate it, I will have the pleasure to present it in 
Tucson. 

And I am sure I am forgetting a lot of other things.
More soon.

Anne M. Black
_http://www.impactika.com/_ (http://www.impactika.com/) 
_IMPACTIKA at aol.com_ (mailto:IMPACTIKA at aol.com) 
Vice-President, I.M.C.A. Inc.
_http://www.imca.cc/_ (http://www.imca.cc/) 




In a message dated 12/14/2009 11:22:50 AM Mountain Standard Time, 
raremeteorites at yahoo.com writes:
Geoff wrote:

And FYI: The Tucson gem show is NOT moving to Las Vegas or anywhere else  : 
)


I am definitely going to the show this year since it may be of the last.  I 
would hate to see it leave but do not see the Tucson City council doing 
anything to make it stay.

NASCAR, the largest spectator sport in the world just moved its annual 
championship banquet to Las Vegas after spending 30 plus years in New York.  
They thought NASCAR would never change this venue and look what happened.  
Several large concerns have moved their shows to Las Vegas because they are 
making unbeatable deals and catering to clients needs more than ever before.


From ROBERT.D.MATSON at saic.com  Mon Dec 14 15:44:53 2009
From: ROBERT.D.MATSON at saic.com (Matson, Robert D.)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 12:44:53 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Tucson 2010 Show Website and News
In-Reply-To: <20091214150934.R9OB6.190257.imail@fed1rmwml37>
References: <7C640E28081AEE4B952F008D1E913F170253082B@0461-its-exmb04.us.saic.com>
	<20091214150934.R9OB6.190257.imail@fed1rmwml37>
Message-ID: <7C640E28081AEE4B952F008D1E913F17025308B4@0461-its-exmb04.us.saic.com>

Hi Carl,

> Rob,
> It all depends on when you go to either cities. Tucson's February
> weather makes it the peak tourist season. In a town filled with
> world class golf <courses> people are willing to pay for what they
get.

I would be willing to "pay for what I get" also. But when you consider
that I live in southern California where I have fabulous weather pretty
much all year, I don't go to Tucson for the weather. Or the golf.
(Sorry, dude, but are you really going to compare Tucson golf courses
to California or Las Vegas? Stone Canyon in Oro Valley is the only
Tucson-area course worthy of particular mention, and it's private.)

> If you want cheap?

No. I want REASONABLE. I don't stay in cheap hotels unless there is
no other choice.

> Go to Tucson during the Summer and then compare room rates with Vegas.

This isn't relevant -- we're talking about staying at the time of the
Tucson Show, not the time of year when it's cheapest to stay there.

> Vegas is higher during the Summer than Tucson is.

Yes, but it is NEVER higher at any time of the year than Tucson is
during
the Show.

> World Class Gambling aside, Tucson is a Much, Much better place to be
> than Vegas anytime! Carl

Well, you live there, as do a huge number of list members, so obviously
Tucson has a lot going for it.  But you seem to think that Vegas is
nothing but gambling, and here you are wrong. Golf, top entertainment,
fabulous hotels and shopping, spectacular swimming pools, and some of
the best restaurants in the world.  --Rob


From damoclid at yahoo.com  Mon Dec 14 16:20:08 2009
From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 13:20:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Tucson 2010 Show Website and News
In-Reply-To: <7C640E28081AEE4B952F008D1E913F17025308B4@0461-its-exmb04.us.saic.com>
Message-ID: <793778.95089.qm@web113603.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

I see Rob is commenting about a reply Carl made that apparently hasn't yet made it to the list.

I'll add just a couple of my own comments within their text

Richard


--- On Mon, 12/14/09, Matson, Robert D. <ROBERT.D.MATSON at saic.com> wrote:

> Hi Carl,
> 
> > Rob,
> > It all depends on when you go to either cities.
> Tucson's February
> > weather makes it the peak tourist season. In a town
> filled with
> > world class golf <courses> people are willing to
> pay for what they
> get.
> 
> I would be willing to "pay for what I get" also. But when
> you consider
> that I live in southern California where I have fabulous
> weather pretty
> much all year, I don't go to Tucson for the weather. Or the
> golf.
> (Sorry, dude, but are you really going to compare Tucson
> golf courses
> to California or Las Vegas? Stone Canyon in Oro Valley is
> the only
> Tucson-area course worthy of particular mention, and it's
> private.)
> 

The Accenture Match Play (PGA Tour) is at the Ritz-Carlton Golf Club, Dove Mountain and starts immediately after the Tucson showS. The place is pretty packed for that event, but without TW, it may be slightly more quiet this year. The Tucson Rode happens shortly after the showS too, so February really is the busiest month for tourism in Tucson.




 But you seem to think
> that Vegas is
> nothing but gambling, and here you are wrong. Golf, top
> entertainment,
> fabulous hotels and shopping, spectacular swimming pools,
> and some of
> the best restaurants in the world.? --Rob



I may be wrong, but all of these OTHER distractions, clamboring for buyer's money, plus the added incentives to cause the spouse and children to come along, would absolutely terrify me if I were a dealer. In such a thin market, do I really want my potential buyers spending their money at all of these other attractions, or would I want them in my room, spending their money with me?

As I asked previously, has anyone heard anything about this one show leaving Tucson since the original threat?

BTW, I spoke to a person who is a member of the trade organization that organizes that one show. He said unless you are a member of the organization, you CAN'T get into the show. I suspect few if any of the subscribers of this list are members of that organization, so if they do move their show to LV. YOU won't be able to get into it either. Does it really matter to you if a show you can't attend moves to LV, or any other city for that matter?

While I'd hate to see any show leave Tucson, I suspect if they do leave, the space they free up will be rapidly filled by other dealers who want to sell to the public, not just to each other...

Richard


      


From mike.hankey at gmail.com  Mon Dec 14 17:37:58 2009
From: mike.hankey at gmail.com (Mike Hankey)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 17:37:58 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Its Not A Crater
Message-ID: <f0a794130912141437n8aec598le92f26bbc4fd070a@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Guys,

I was wondering around the fields of Lancaster PA near the high mass
zone of the newly computed fall line and happened across a really
weird hole. The hole is 5 feet wide, 6 feet long and about 16 inches
deep.

I posted pictures and information here:

http://www.mikesastrophotos.com/baltimore-pa-meteor/its-not-a-crater/

I'm not saying this is a crater by any means and I understand that
meteorites do not make craters 99.9% of the time, however I still
think its really weird and I wanted to get some feedback as to what
you guys think.

Please read the post and look at the pictures and lmk your thoughts.

Thanks,

Mike


From mlblood at cox.net  Mon Dec 14 17:50:40 2009
From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael Blood)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 14:50:40 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Tucson 2010 Show
In-Reply-To: <886328.78986.qm@web30703.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <C74C0140.9D11%mlblood@cox.net>

Damn! Adam,
        I thik I'll just kill myself!
        Oh, ya, it's that ol' "Yesterday was so much better" phenomenon.
While I must admit I resent the hell out of the way Tucson fails to
Provide decent traffic and parking accommodations, you must admit
That there are still so damned many rooms you could not walk in and
Out, spending an average of 5 min. in each and still cover the Show in
A week. 
        I hear rumors Tucson has actually "fixed" all the on and off ramps -
That's a start....
        I don't know what you were doing and finding in Tucson 5 years
Ago, but it is pretty much the same to me - perhaps your being ripped
Off by one of the hotels has soured you, Adam.
        Come on now, and get ready to have a GREAT Tucson Show! It has
Been the best thing that my wife and I do together every year (with the
Exception of her mother's death last show). It is a place you can relax,
Go to bed early, no TV, too many friends to be able to have dinner or
Even lunch and dinner with all of them, FABULOUS meteorites always
Showing up, Geoff and Anne Black beating their "old" standard
Of organization and professionalism year after year.
        Hell, how can you NOT have the time of your life?
        Common, now, Adam... Get with it or we will all hold you down
And tickle you!
        Best wishes, Michael


On 12/14/09 11:44 AM, "Adam Hupe" <raremeteorites at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Hi Carl,
> 
> I hope you are right about Tucson.  Las Vegas already has a world class annual
> gem show, just not a mineral show. There are several Gem and Mineral shows
> across the world but only one can be the largest.  I saw plenty of empty rooms
> for vendors at the hotels last year so there was no waiting in line as used to
> be the case. If Las Vegas wanted to host the world's largest gem and mineral
> show, I am sure they could do so without much problem.  It would be like
> taking a sucker away from a baby. So many take great shows for granted, just
> to lose them when a more reasonable and exciting venue appears.
> 
> The Tucson show has been going down hill for years so maybe it is time for the
> City Council to start listening.  Part of the charm of Tucson was walking from
> room to room and checking out the goods. Several of the old hotels that could
> accommodate this kind of foot traffic have been turned into low-income
> housing. The replacement hotels are not designed with the Gem and Mineral show
> in mind so the charm is leaving regardless and the show seems to be dying
> slowly.  Ad in the terrible rise in the crime rate and very few venture out at
> night like they used to.
> 
> I just want to attend at least one more time before all of the charm is gone
> or the show has died.  Maybe it isn't too late for something to be done.
> 
> 
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Adam
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: "cdtucson at cox.net" <cdtucson at cox.net>
> To: Adam <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>; Adam Hupe
> <raremeteorites at yahoo.com>
> Sent: Mon, December 14, 2009 10:58:56 AM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Tucson 2010 Show Website and News
> 
> Adam,
> You may be right but consider this.
> Nascar is a one trick pony. It has nobody to replace them. So off they go to
> Vegas. Seems very wise to me.
> Tucson is a completely different animal.
> If anyone leaves any venue in Tucson there are ten others in line to take
> there place.
> Seriously. any of the many gem shows leaving Tucson would be suicidal. It
> would be like venders pulling out of Costco.
> You would have to be an idiot to do that. Like The Tucson Gem show, there
> would be many in line to take your spot.
> After all to be in Costco selling your product means instant success.
> Vegas will never replace Tucson. What would happen if Vegas takes off is that
> there would be one more gem show to attend. It would never replace Tucson but
> would add to the chain of
> regularly scheduled shows that dealers would be forced to attend. Potentially
> doubling overhead and breaking some dealers.
> There are only so many buyers and having two shows might be a bit much.
> Besides all that. IMHO. Vegas is for Vegas type stuff. There are only so many
> black chips to go around. It would be like moving the Gem show to Disneyland.
> Too many distractions. Peeps don't go to Disneyland to buy rocks and gems.
> No, I think Tucson may be like EBay or Costco. they basically own the market
> and only a fool would leave.
> And one other thing. Tucson is going to be building yet another bridge across
> the freeway in the down town area. This will greatly benefit the gem show
> goers. 
> My 2 cents.
> Thanks
> Carl 
> --
> Carl or Debbie Esparza
> Meteoritemax
> 
> 
> ---- Adam Hupe <raremeteorites at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Geoff wrote:
>> 
>> And FYI: The Tucson gem show is NOT moving to Las Vegas or anywhere else  : )
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I am definitely going to the show this year since it may be of the last.  I
>> would hate to see it leave but do not see the Tucson City council doing
>> anything to make it stay.
>> 
>> NASCAR, the largest spectator sport in the world just moved its annual
>> championship banquet to Las Vegas after spending 30 plus years in New York.
>> They thought NASCAR would never change this venue and look what happened.
>> Several large concerns have moved their shows to Las Vegas because they are
>> making unbeatable deals and catering to clients needs more than ever before.
>> 
>>> From what I have heard, Tucson has not lifted a finger to prevent the
>>> largest promoter from leaving and taking several thousand vendors with him.
>>> Do not underestimate Las Vegas, they have a way of getting what they want
>>> and they are already in a position to take.   They are very hungry right now
>>> and an additional $100,000,000 in annual revenues is pretty attractive. They
>>> could accommodate this show very easily, cater much better to vendor needs
>>> and much cheaper.
>> 
>> Here is the link to NASCAR discussing their move to Las Vegas:
>> http://www.cbssports.com/autoracing/story/12615099/nascars-las-vegas-banquet-
>> bet-pays-off
>> 
>> 
>> I hope the Tucson City Council members take note and makes the Gem and
>> Mineral show a better experience.
>> 
>> Best Regards,
>> 
>> Adam
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list




From anitawestlake at att.net  Mon Dec 14 18:24:25 2009
From: anitawestlake at att.net (Anita Westlake)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 15:24:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Tucson 2010 Show Website and News
Message-ID: <447369.81483.qm@web83816.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Hi Everyone:
   I went to Tucson for the first time last year and stayed in a Motel 6. I booked the room last minute for around $56 dollars a night. Went I arrived and checked-in, the hotel clerk said "There's been in a price change on your room since you made the reservations."
   I said "Oh really?"
   He said "It's now $35.00 a night!"
Anita



From gmhupe at htn.net  Mon Dec 14 18:35:32 2009
From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 18:35:32 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Michael Blood Auction - Tucson 2010 Show
References: <C74C0140.9D11%mlblood@cox.net>
Message-ID: <8681A0608FE54A578763F44BC366B8EE@Gregor>

Hi Michael,

Michael, you skipped the perfect opportunity to draw attention to the famous 
(and infamous), Michael Blood Tucson Meteorite Auction with your reply to 
the List regarding the possibility of the Mineral Show dumping Tucson for 
Vegas!!

Since Captain Blood has other "Captainly" duties on his ship, I will draw 
your attention to Michael Blood's 2010 Tucson Auction page: 
http://www.michaelbloodmeteorites.com/TucsonAuction10.html

Typically, I feel, the Denver and Tucson Show auctions are a 'give-back' to 
collectors as items always sell for way less than any time else, which 
includes; web sites, eBay or the like. These auctions are a great place to 
pick some very excellent deals!!! Often, however, dealers are the ones who 
see the true value of these items at the 'Shows' and out-bid the other 
participants in order to re-sell the items later...

I plan to make it to the Tucson Show in 2010. After missing 2009's Show due 
to other adventures, I look forward to meeting up with old and new friends!

Best regards,
Greg

====================
Greg Hupe
The Hupe Collection
NaturesVault (eBay)
gmhupe at htn.net
www.LunarRock.com
IMCA 3163
====================
Click here for my current eBay auctions: 
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michael Blood" <mlblood at cox.net>
To: "Adam Hupe" <raremeteorites at yahoo.com>; "Meteorite List" 
<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 5:50 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Tucson 2010 Show


> Damn! Adam,
>        I thik I'll just kill myself!
>        Oh, ya, it's that ol' "Yesterday was so much better" phenomenon.
> While I must admit I resent the hell out of the way Tucson fails to
> Provide decent traffic and parking accommodations, you must admit
> That there are still so damned many rooms you could not walk in and
> Out, spending an average of 5 min. in each and still cover the Show in
> A week.
>        I hear rumors Tucson has actually "fixed" all the on and off 
> ramps -
> That's a start....
>        I don't know what you were doing and finding in Tucson 5 years
> Ago, but it is pretty much the same to me - perhaps your being ripped
> Off by one of the hotels has soured you, Adam.
>        Come on now, and get ready to have a GREAT Tucson Show! It has
> Been the best thing that my wife and I do together every year (with the
> Exception of her mother's death last show). It is a place you can relax,
> Go to bed early, no TV, too many friends to be able to have dinner or
> Even lunch and dinner with all of them, FABULOUS meteorites always
> Showing up, Geoff and Anne Black beating their "old" standard
> Of organization and professionalism year after year.
>        Hell, how can you NOT have the time of your life?
>        Common, now, Adam... Get with it or we will all hold you down
> And tickle you!
>        Best wishes, Michael
>
>
> On 12/14/09 11:44 AM, "Adam Hupe" <raremeteorites at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Carl,
>>
>> I hope you are right about Tucson.  Las Vegas already has a world class 
>> annual
>> gem show, just not a mineral show. There are several Gem and Mineral 
>> shows
>> across the world but only one can be the largest.  I saw plenty of empty 
>> rooms
>> for vendors at the hotels last year so there was no waiting in line as 
>> used to
>> be the case. If Las Vegas wanted to host the world's largest gem and 
>> mineral
>> show, I am sure they could do so without much problem.  It would be like
>> taking a sucker away from a baby. So many take great shows for granted, 
>> just
>> to lose them when a more reasonable and exciting venue appears.
>>
>> The Tucson show has been going down hill for years so maybe it is time 
>> for the
>> City Council to start listening.  Part of the charm of Tucson was walking 
>> from
>> room to room and checking out the goods. Several of the old hotels that 
>> could
>> accommodate this kind of foot traffic have been turned into low-income
>> housing. The replacement hotels are not designed with the Gem and Mineral 
>> show
>> in mind so the charm is leaving regardless and the show seems to be dying
>> slowly.  Ad in the terrible rise in the crime rate and very few venture 
>> out at
>> night like they used to.
>>
>> I just want to attend at least one more time before all of the charm is 
>> gone
>> or the show has died.  Maybe it isn't too late for something to be done.
>>
>>
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>> Adam
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: "cdtucson at cox.net" <cdtucson at cox.net>
>> To: Adam <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>; Adam Hupe
>> <raremeteorites at yahoo.com>
>> Sent: Mon, December 14, 2009 10:58:56 AM
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Tucson 2010 Show Website and News
>>
>> Adam,
>> You may be right but consider this.
>> Nascar is a one trick pony. It has nobody to replace them. So off they go 
>> to
>> Vegas. Seems very wise to me.
>> Tucson is a completely different animal.
>> If anyone leaves any venue in Tucson there are ten others in line to take
>> there place.
>> Seriously. any of the many gem shows leaving Tucson would be suicidal. It
>> would be like venders pulling out of Costco.
>> You would have to be an idiot to do that. Like The Tucson Gem show, there
>> would be many in line to take your spot.
>> After all to be in Costco selling your product means instant success.
>> Vegas will never replace Tucson. What would happen if Vegas takes off is 
>> that
>> there would be one more gem show to attend. It would never replace Tucson 
>> but
>> would add to the chain of
>> regularly scheduled shows that dealers would be forced to attend. 
>> Potentially
>> doubling overhead and breaking some dealers.
>> There are only so many buyers and having two shows might be a bit much.
>> Besides all that. IMHO. Vegas is for Vegas type stuff. There are only so 
>> many
>> black chips to go around. It would be like moving the Gem show to 
>> Disneyland.
>> Too many distractions. Peeps don't go to Disneyland to buy rocks and 
>> gems.
>> No, I think Tucson may be like EBay or Costco. they basically own the 
>> market
>> and only a fool would leave.
>> And one other thing. Tucson is going to be building yet another bridge 
>> across
>> the freeway in the down town area. This will greatly benefit the gem show
>> goers.
>> My 2 cents.
>> Thanks
>> Carl
>> --
>> Carl or Debbie Esparza
>> Meteoritemax
>>
>>
>> ---- Adam Hupe <raremeteorites at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> Geoff wrote:
>>>
>>> And FYI: The Tucson gem show is NOT moving to Las Vegas or anywhere else 
>>> : )
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I am definitely going to the show this year since it may be of the last. 
>>> I
>>> would hate to see it leave but do not see the Tucson City council doing
>>> anything to make it stay.
>>>
>>> NASCAR, the largest spectator sport in the world just moved its annual
>>> championship banquet to Las Vegas after spending 30 plus years in New 
>>> York.
>>> They thought NASCAR would never change this venue and look what 
>>> happened.
>>> Several large concerns have moved their shows to Las Vegas because they 
>>> are
>>> making unbeatable deals and catering to clients needs more than ever 
>>> before.
>>>
>>>> From what I have heard, Tucson has not lifted a finger to prevent the
>>>> largest promoter from leaving and taking several thousand vendors with 
>>>> him.
>>>> Do not underestimate Las Vegas, they have a way of getting what they 
>>>> want
>>>> and they are already in a position to take.   They are very hungry 
>>>> right now
>>>> and an additional $100,000,000 in annual revenues is pretty attractive. 
>>>> They
>>>> could accommodate this show very easily, cater much better to vendor 
>>>> needs
>>>> and much cheaper.
>>>
>>> Here is the link to NASCAR discussing their move to Las Vegas:
>>> http://www.cbssports.com/autoracing/story/12615099/nascars-las-vegas-banquet-
>>> bet-pays-off
>>>
>>>
>>> I hope the Tucson City Council members take note and makes the Gem and
>>> Mineral show a better experience.
>>>
>>> Best Regards,
>>>
>>> Adam
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 




From whitefalcons007 at yahoo.com  Mon Dec 14 19:06:49 2009
From: whitefalcons007 at yahoo.com (Dave Myers)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 16:06:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Its Not A Crater
In-Reply-To: <f0a794130912141437n8aec598le92f26bbc4fd070a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <761312.60238.qm@web110116.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Hi Mike and list,
 coming from a family of farmers in Ohio, (and deer hunters,) It looks from the photos that there are a lot of animal tracks around it, I would ask the farmer if salt blocks were placed there for years. The animals will
dig a pit after many years! even a couple.

If he says No, Get a back hole and dig! 

Dave

--- On Mon, 12/14/09, Mike Hankey <mike.hankey at gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Mike Hankey <mike.hankey at gmail.com>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Its Not A Crater
> To: "meteoritelist" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Date: Monday, December 14, 2009, 10:37 PM
> Hi Guys,
> 
> I was wondering around the fields of Lancaster PA near the
> high mass
> zone of the newly computed fall line and happened across a
> really
> weird hole. The hole is 5 feet wide, 6 feet long and about
> 16 inches
> deep.
> 
> I posted pictures and information here:
> 
> http://www.mikesastrophotos.com/baltimore-pa-meteor/its-not-a-crater/
> 
> I'm not saying this is a crater by any means and I
> understand that
> meteorites do not make craters 99.9% of the time, however I
> still
> think its really weird and I wanted to get some feedback as
> to what
> you guys think.
> 
> Please read the post and look at the pictures and lmk your
> thoughts.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Mike
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      



From mike.hankey at gmail.com  Mon Dec 14 19:10:43 2009
From: mike.hankey at gmail.com (Mike Hankey)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 19:10:43 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Its Not A Crater
In-Reply-To: <761312.60238.qm@web110116.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <f0a794130912141437n8aec598le92f26bbc4fd070a@mail.gmail.com>
	<761312.60238.qm@web110116.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <f0a794130912141610h11bba6f7x34a4191e8b52b732@mail.gmail.com>

Dave,

Thanks for the reply. This is a cow pasture and there are a lot of
hoof prints in and around the hole (around the entire field really). I
will ask him about the salt blocks. The pasture is fenced in, so if he
did leave anything out, it wouldn't be for deer, but only cows.

Thanks,

Mike

On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 7:06 PM, Dave Myers <whitefalcons007 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hi Mike and list,
> ?coming from a family of farmers in Ohio, (and deer hunters,) It looks from the photos that there are a lot of animal tracks around it, I would ask the farmer if salt blocks were placed there for years. The animals will
> dig a pit after many years! even a couple.
>
> If he says No, Get a back hole and dig!
>
> Dave
>
> --- On Mon, 12/14/09, Mike Hankey <mike.hankey at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> From: Mike Hankey <mike.hankey at gmail.com>
>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Its Not A Crater
>> To: "meteoritelist" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>> Date: Monday, December 14, 2009, 10:37 PM
>> Hi Guys,
>>
>> I was wondering around the fields of Lancaster PA near the
>> high mass
>> zone of the newly computed fall line and happened across a
>> really
>> weird hole. The hole is 5 feet wide, 6 feet long and about
>> 16 inches
>> deep.
>>
>> I posted pictures and information here:
>>
>> http://www.mikesastrophotos.com/baltimore-pa-meteor/its-not-a-crater/
>>
>> I'm not saying this is a crater by any means and I
>> understand that
>> meteorites do not make craters 99.9% of the time, however I
>> still
>> think its really weird and I wanted to get some feedback as
>> to what
>> you guys think.
>>
>> Please read the post and look at the pictures and lmk your
>> thoughts.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Mike
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>
>
>
>
>


From mlblood at cox.net  Mon Dec 14 19:47:31 2009
From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael Blood)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 16:47:31 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Tucson 2010 Show Website and News
In-Reply-To: <e51421550912141157y59293e53ub789ebe0715a227b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C74C1CA3.9D26%mlblood@cox.net>

Hi Mike G, Robert and all,
        MOST people who are single (and some couples)
SHARE a motel room (most have double King beds)
And some singles go 3 or 4 to a room, making the
Show quite affordable.
        If you have an RV, you can park the entire time
In the Inn Suites huge dirt parking area (I believe).
Of course, you will have to go to an RV place to "dump"
And get water - "ALL RV" on Grant near Oracle is
Excellent and provides services as well. 520.622.1578 -
Tell them Michael Blood sent you - it may or may not
Get you a SLIGHTLY better rate on services.
        Those who like to stay at an RV court, there is one
Near Prince "Whispering Palms" 520.888.2500, but we
Stopped going there when they made an off handed racist
Comment once. Otherwise, it is a very nice place and
Easy to get to off the freeway, just a few minutes from
Inn Suites.
        Best wishes, Michael


On 12/14/09 11:57 AM, "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" <meteoritemike at gmail.com>
wrote:

> HI Rob,
> 
> $130 a night will rent you a 1-bedroom seaside beach cottage down here
> in Florida. (a nice one)
> 
> Is that really what they charge out there for a little Motel 8 room?
> 
> No wonder everyone needs thousands of dollars to attend the show.
> When I finally make it out there, I will definitely stay in our RV.
> 
> Best regards and clear skies,
> 
> MikeG
> 
> 
> On 12/14/09, Matson, Robert D. <ROBERT.D.MATSON at saic.com> wrote:
>> Just to counter this view, if the show moved to Vegas, I would go
>> every year -- and enjoy staying in fabulous hotels at the same price
>> as a flea-infested 1-star in Tucson during the show. Don't get me
>> wrong -- I've enjoyed every one of my Tucson visits, but the hotel/
>> motel price-jacking during the show is a serious sore point with
>> me. I think we all know what $130/night for a hotel will get you
>> in Tucson in early February.  For that same price or less, you can
>> stay in any one of a dozen 4-star hotels on the Strip.  --Rob
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
>> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Don
>> Edwards
>> Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 11:07 AM
>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Tucson 2010 Show Website and News
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>>> Geoff wrote:
>>> 
>>> And FYI: The Tucson gem show is NOT moving to Las Vegas or anywhere
>>> else  : )
>> 
>> Personally, if the show moves to Las Vegas, I won't go.
>> 
>> 2010 will be my 6th (straight) show, and I have tentative plans to go (to
>> Tucson) for many more years but I won't go to Las Vegas, even once.
>> 
>> Just my personal opinion/reaction to Las Vegas (yes, I've been there on a
>> vacation tour).
>> 
>> Don
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> 
> 




From raremeteorites at yahoo.com  Mon Dec 14 20:03:22 2009
From: raremeteorites at yahoo.com (Adam Hupe)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 17:03:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Tucson 2010 Show
In-Reply-To: <C74C0140.9D11%mlblood@cox.net>
References: <C74C0140.9D11%mlblood@cox.net>
Message-ID: <871469.24048.qm@web30708.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi Michael,

Admittedly, I have developed somewhat of a negative attitude towards the Tucson show the last few years.  I remember many years ago when I could hardly wait to return the following year I had so much fun.  I used to actually feel depressed when the show was over.   I treated the Tucson show as a vacation and a chance to get out of the rain when I lived in Washington.

What changed it for me over time was being ripped off a couple of times by motels like the Econolodge who stole over $800.00 from my Credit Card account. It took me six months to clear this up. The East Indian owner forgot how to speak English when it came time to reconcile this thievery. The city of Tucson did nothing about it after numerous complaints and this flee bag motel is still operating.

Another time, a place advertised on-line as being a 2-star operation did not know how to clean their rooms. We found a crack pipe and some other paraphernalia hidden in the oven.   The room was not even vacuumed as there were pennies lying on top of the carpet and an unmentionable corn-laden object floating in the toilet stinking up the entire room.   To top it off, we had a neighboring tenant who banged his head against the wall all night, every night.  I don't know if this was drug induced or a mental illness.  Needless to say, we tried like hell to find a different motel/hotel but all were over booked becuase there was not enough rooms in Tucson to host this large of a show.

Maybe the rooms we got stuck in were unfortunate circumstances. I have never had the problems while staying at the Westward Look in Tucson but at $280.00 a night, I would hope not.  The only place I have seen similar room conditions is in Barstow and then they are not hosting an international event or pretending to be a two-star operation. We brought a couple to the show, for their first time, two years ago and it is doubtful they will return after witnessing some poor guy taking a beating behind their hotel room.  They think he may have been mugged.  This is not the kind of impression that is good for long-term business.

Although there are many problems with Tucson, I think these issues could be resolved if managed properly to make the show a long-term success. As it stands now, the only thing that brings me back to Tucson year-after-year are fellow meteorite enthusiasts. It is the best opportunity to meet people with similar interests.


Hoping the 2010 show will be blast - Best Regards,

Adam

  

Maybe the weather is not enough to entice me anymore as there is no such thing as a winter here in Laughlin where it never snows or rarely rains for that matter.  Maybe, I am spoiled from living in a town that is totally dependent on hospitality and hosts  6 million visitors a year.  This little town of ~8,000 residents would not survive if they didn't know how to treat people well. They made the place safe even though the largest biker rally on the west coast is held here every year.  They learned from past mistakes and maintain 1/50th the national average for crime rate. Bikers are welcomed here but must not wear their colors because it could cause tension with other gangs. Visitors are here to have fun, not get ripped off. 

  

----- Original Message ----
From: Michael Blood <mlblood at cox.net>
To: Adam Hupe <raremeteorites at yahoo.com>; Meteorite List <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Mon, December 14, 2009 2:50:40 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Tucson 2010 Show 

Damn! Adam,
        I thik I'll just kill myself!
        Oh, ya, it's that ol' "Yesterday was so much better" phenomenon.
While I must admit I resent the hell out of the way Tucson fails to
Provide decent traffic and parking accommodations, you must admit
That there are still so damned many rooms you could not walk in and
Out, spending an average of 5 min. in each and still cover the Show in
A week. 
        I hear rumors Tucson has actually "fixed" all the on and off ramps -
That's a start....
        I don't know what you were doing and finding in Tucson 5 years
Ago, but it is pretty much the same to me - perhaps your being ripped
Off by one of the hotels has soured you, Adam.
        Come on now, and get ready to have a GREAT Tucson Show! It has
Been the best thing that my wife and I do together every year (with the
Exception of her mother's death last show). It is a place you can relax,
Go to bed early, no TV, too many friends to be able to have dinner or
Even lunch and dinner with all of them, FABULOUS meteorites always
Showing up, Geoff and Anne Black beating their "old" standard
Of organization and professionalism year after year.
        Hell, how can you NOT have the time of your life?
        Common, now, Adam... Get with it or we will all hold you down
And tickle you!
        Best wishes, Michael


On 12/14/09 11:44 AM, "Adam Hupe" <raremeteorites at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Hi Carl,
> 
> I hope you are right about Tucson.  Las Vegas already has a world class annual
> gem show, just not a mineral show. There are several Gem and Mineral shows
> across the world but only one can be the largest.  I saw plenty of empty rooms
> for vendors at the hotels last year so there was no waiting in line as used to
> be the case. If Las Vegas wanted to host the world's largest gem and mineral
> show, I am sure they could do so without much problem.  It would be like
> taking a sucker away from a baby. So many take great shows for granted, just
> to lose them when a more reasonable and exciting venue appears.
> 
> The Tucson show has been going down hill for years so maybe it is time for the
> City Council to start listening.  Part of the charm of Tucson was walking from
> room to room and checking out the goods. Several of the old hotels that could
> accommodate this kind of foot traffic have been turned into low-income
> housing. The replacement hotels are not designed with the Gem and Mineral show
> in mind so the charm is leaving regardless and the show seems to be dying
> slowly.  Ad in the terrible rise in the crime rate and very few venture out at
> night like they used to.
> 
> I just want to attend at least one more time before all of the charm is gone
> or the show has died.  Maybe it isn't too late for something to be done.
> 
> 
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Adam
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: "cdtucson at cox.net" <cdtucson at cox.net>
> To: Adam <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>; Adam Hupe
> <raremeteorites at yahoo.com>
> Sent: Mon, December 14, 2009 10:58:56 AM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Tucson 2010 Show Website and News
> 
> Adam,
> You may be right but consider this.
> Nascar is a one trick pony. It has nobody to replace them. So off they go to
> Vegas. Seems very wise to me.
> Tucson is a completely different animal.
> If anyone leaves any venue in Tucson there are ten others in line to take
> there place.
> Seriously. any of the many gem shows leaving Tucson would be suicidal. It
> would be like venders pulling out of Costco.
> You would have to be an idiot to do that. Like The Tucson Gem show, there
> would be many in line to take your spot.
> After all to be in Costco selling your product means instant success.
> Vegas will never replace Tucson. What would happen if Vegas takes off is that
> there would be one more gem show to attend. It would never replace Tucson but
> would add to the chain of
> regularly scheduled shows that dealers would be forced to attend. Potentially
> doubling overhead and breaking some dealers.
> There are only so many buyers and having two shows might be a bit much.
> Besides all that. IMHO. Vegas is for Vegas type stuff. There are only so many
> black chips to go around. It would be like moving the Gem show to Disneyland.
> Too many distractions. Peeps don't go to Disneyland to buy rocks and gems.
> No, I think Tucson may be like EBay or Costco. they basically own the market
> and only a fool would leave.
> And one other thing. Tucson is going to be building yet another bridge across
> the freeway in the down town area. This will greatly benefit the gem show
> goers. 
> My 2 cents.
> Thanks
> Carl 
> --
> Carl or Debbie Esparza
> Meteoritemax
> 
> 
> ---- Adam Hupe <raremeteorites at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Geoff wrote:
>> 
>> And FYI: The Tucson gem show is NOT moving to Las Vegas or anywhere else  : )
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I am definitely going to the show this year since it may be of the last.  I
>> would hate to see it leave but do not see the Tucson City council doing
>> anything to make it stay.
>> 
>> NASCAR, the largest spectator sport in the world just moved its annual
>> championship banquet to Las Vegas after spending 30 plus years in New York.
>> They thought NASCAR would never change this venue and look what happened.
>> Several large concerns have moved their shows to Las Vegas because they are
>> making unbeatable deals and catering to clients needs more than ever before.
>> 
>>> From what I have heard, Tucson has not lifted a finger to prevent the
>>> largest promoter from leaving and taking several thousand vendors with him.
>>> Do not underestimate Las Vegas, they have a way of getting what they want
>>> and they are already in a position to take.   They are very hungry right now
>>> and an additional $100,000,000 in annual revenues is pretty attractive. They
>>> could accommodate this show very easily, cater much better to vendor needs
>>> and much cheaper.
>> 
>> Here is the link to NASCAR discussing their move to Las Vegas:
>> http://www.cbssports.com/autoracing/story/12615099/nascars-las-vegas-banquet-
>> bet-pays-off
>> 
>> 
>> I hope the Tucson City Council members take note and makes the Gem and
>> Mineral show a better experience.
>> 
>> Best Regards,
>> 
>> Adam
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


From mlblood at cox.net  Mon Dec 14 20:14:31 2009
From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael Blood)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 17:14:31 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Michael Blood Auction - Tucson 2010 Show
In-Reply-To: <8681A0608FE54A578763F44BC366B8EE@Gregor>
Message-ID: <C74C22F7.9D30%mlblood@cox.net>

Thanks, Greg,
        Good point about dealers buying at the auction -
Dudes! If a DEALER is bidding, you KNOW it is well
Below what it will retail for.... They MUST mark up
Well over cost BECAUSE:
1 - They are tying up capital
2 - Until it sells, they have LOST money
3 - They nearly always make a new label, put it in
A nice display case, etc.
4 - The BIG issue is they may have money "tied up"
In an item for a few days, a few weeks, a few months
Or even a few years.
        So, when you are a collector and dealers are bidding
It is a DEAD GIVEAWAY that you would get the best
Possible price if you bid on the item.
        I have always been amazed to hear collectors complain
That "the dealers are buying everything." Well, figure it out:
If they are buying it, it is because it is well below what they
Will sell it for - therefore, the best possible bargain you will
Find on that fall or find.
        By the way: I am adding 25 ADDITIONAL items today,
Bringing the total to about 75 right now - so, there is still room
For more......Greg?  Others?
        The  range as of today is from low two digit specimens
To 3 and 4 digit specimens. Something for every pocket book.
        Please contact me off list for acceptability of items you
Would be interested in offering.
        Best wishes, Michael


On 12/14/09 3:35 PM, "Greg Hupe" <gmhupe at htn.net> wrote:

> Hi Michael,
> 
> Michael, you skipped the perfect opportunity to draw attention to the famous
> (and infamous), Michael Blood Tucson Meteorite Auction with your reply to
> the List regarding the possibility of the Mineral Show dumping Tucson for
> Vegas!!
> 
> Since Captain Blood has other "Captainly" duties on his ship, I will draw
> your attention to Michael Blood's 2010 Tucson Auction page:
> http://www.michaelbloodmeteorites.com/TucsonAuction10.html
> 
> Typically, I feel, the Denver and Tucson Show auctions are a 'give-back' to
> collectors as items always sell for way less than any time else, which
> includes; web sites, eBay or the like. These auctions are a great place to
> pick some very excellent deals!!! Often, however, dealers are the ones who
> see the true value of these items at the 'Shows' and out-bid the other
> participants in order to re-sell the items later...
> 
> I plan to make it to the Tucson Show in 2010. After missing 2009's Show due
> to other adventures, I look forward to meeting up with old and new friends!
> 
> Best regards,
> Greg
> 
> ====================
> Greg Hupe
> The Hupe Collection
> NaturesVault (eBay)
> gmhupe at htn.net
> www.LunarRock.com
> IMCA 3163
> ====================
> Click here for my current eBay auctions:
> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Blood" <mlblood at cox.net>
> To: "Adam Hupe" <raremeteorites at yahoo.com>; "Meteorite List"
> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 5:50 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Tucson 2010 Show
> 
> 
>> Damn! Adam,
>>        I thik I'll just kill myself!
>>        Oh, ya, it's that ol' "Yesterday was so much better" phenomenon.
>> While I must admit I resent the hell out of the way Tucson fails to
>> Provide decent traffic and parking accommodations, you must admit
>> That there are still so damned many rooms you could not walk in and
>> Out, spending an average of 5 min. in each and still cover the Show in
>> A week.
>>        I hear rumors Tucson has actually "fixed" all the on and off
>> ramps -
>> That's a start....
>>        I don't know what you were doing and finding in Tucson 5 years
>> Ago, but it is pretty much the same to me - perhaps your being ripped
>> Off by one of the hotels has soured you, Adam.
>>        Come on now, and get ready to have a GREAT Tucson Show! It has
>> Been the best thing that my wife and I do together every year (with the
>> Exception of her mother's death last show). It is a place you can relax,
>> Go to bed early, no TV, too many friends to be able to have dinner or
>> Even lunch and dinner with all of them, FABULOUS meteorites always
>> Showing up, Geoff and Anne Black beating their "old" standard
>> Of organization and professionalism year after year.
>>        Hell, how can you NOT have the time of your life?
>>        Common, now, Adam... Get with it or we will all hold you down
>> And tickle you!
>>        Best wishes, Michael
>> 
>> 
>> On 12/14/09 11:44 AM, "Adam Hupe" <raremeteorites at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Carl,
>>> 
>>> I hope you are right about Tucson.  Las Vegas already has a world class
>>> annual
>>> gem show, just not a mineral show. There are several Gem and Mineral
>>> shows
>>> across the world but only one can be the largest.  I saw plenty of empty
>>> rooms
>>> for vendors at the hotels last year so there was no waiting in line as
>>> used to
>>> be the case. If Las Vegas wanted to host the world's largest gem and
>>> mineral
>>> show, I am sure they could do so without much problem.  It would be like
>>> taking a sucker away from a baby. So many take great shows for granted,
>>> just
>>> to lose them when a more reasonable and exciting venue appears.
>>> 
>>> The Tucson show has been going down hill for years so maybe it is time
>>> for the
>>> City Council to start listening.  Part of the charm of Tucson was walking
>>> from
>>> room to room and checking out the goods. Several of the old hotels that
>>> could
>>> accommodate this kind of foot traffic have been turned into low-income
>>> housing. The replacement hotels are not designed with the Gem and Mineral
>>> show
>>> in mind so the charm is leaving regardless and the show seems to be dying
>>> slowly.  Ad in the terrible rise in the crime rate and very few venture
>>> out at
>>> night like they used to.
>>> 
>>> I just want to attend at least one more time before all of the charm is
>>> gone
>>> or the show has died.  Maybe it isn't too late for something to be done.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Best Regards,
>>> 
>>> Adam
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message ----
>>> From: "cdtucson at cox.net" <cdtucson at cox.net>
>>> To: Adam <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>; Adam Hupe
>>> <raremeteorites at yahoo.com>
>>> Sent: Mon, December 14, 2009 10:58:56 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Tucson 2010 Show Website and News
>>> 
>>> Adam,
>>> You may be right but consider this.
>>> Nascar is a one trick pony. It has nobody to replace them. So off they go
>>> to
>>> Vegas. Seems very wise to me.
>>> Tucson is a completely different animal.
>>> If anyone leaves any venue in Tucson there are ten others in line to take
>>> there place.
>>> Seriously. any of the many gem shows leaving Tucson would be suicidal. It
>>> would be like venders pulling out of Costco.
>>> You would have to be an idiot to do that. Like The Tucson Gem show, there
>>> would be many in line to take your spot.
>>> After all to be in Costco selling your product means instant success.
>>> Vegas will never replace Tucson. What would happen if Vegas takes off is
>>> that
>>> there would be one more gem show to attend. It would never replace Tucson
>>> but
>>> would add to the chain of
>>> regularly scheduled shows that dealers would be forced to attend.
>>> Potentially
>>> doubling overhead and breaking some dealers.
>>> There are only so many buyers and having two shows might be a bit much.
>>> Besides all that. IMHO. Vegas is for Vegas type stuff. There are only so
>>> many
>>> black chips to go around. It would be like moving the Gem show to
>>> Disneyland.
>>> Too many distractions. Peeps don't go to Disneyland to buy rocks and
>>> gems.
>>> No, I think Tucson may be like EBay or Costco. they basically own the
>>> market
>>> and only a fool would leave.
>>> And one other thing. Tucson is going to be building yet another bridge
>>> across
>>> the freeway in the down town area. This will greatly benefit the gem show
>>> goers.
>>> My 2 cents.
>>> Thanks
>>> Carl
>>> --
>>> Carl or Debbie Esparza
>>> Meteoritemax
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ---- Adam Hupe <raremeteorites at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> Geoff wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> And FYI: The Tucson gem show is NOT moving to Las Vegas or anywhere else
>>>> : )
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I am definitely going to the show this year since it may be of the last.
>>>> I
>>>> would hate to see it leave but do not see the Tucson City council doing
>>>> anything to make it stay.
>>>> 
>>>> NASCAR, the largest spectator sport in the world just moved its annual
>>>> championship banquet to Las Vegas after spending 30 plus years in New
>>>> York.
>>>> They thought NASCAR would never change this venue and look what
>>>> happened.
>>>> Several large concerns have moved their shows to Las Vegas because they
>>>> are
>>>> making unbeatable deals and catering to clients needs more than ever
>>>> before.
>>>> 
>>>>> From what I have heard, Tucson has not lifted a finger to prevent the
>>>>> largest promoter from leaving and taking several thousand vendors with
>>>>> him.
>>>>> Do not underestimate Las Vegas, they have a way of getting what they
>>>>> want
>>>>> and they are already in a position to take.   They are very hungry
>>>>> right now
>>>>> and an additional $100,000,000 in annual revenues is pretty attractive.
>>>>> They
>>>>> could accommodate this show very easily, cater much better to vendor
>>>>> needs
>>>>> and much cheaper.
>>>> 
>>>> Here is the link to NASCAR discussing their move to Las Vegas:
>>>> http://www.cbssports.com/autoracing/story/12615099/nascars-las-vegas-banque
>>>> t-
>>>> bet-pays-off
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I hope the Tucson City Council members take note and makes the Gem and
>>>> Mineral show a better experience.
>>>> 
>>>> Best Regards,
>>>> 
>>>> Adam
>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>> 
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> 
>> 
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> 
> 
> 




From ensoramanda at ntlworld.com  Mon Dec 14 20:53:03 2009
From: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com (ensoramanda at ntlworld.com)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 1:53:03 +0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] SALE - 192g Moss and 159g Hambleton
Message-ID: <20091215015303.ONY5X.338792.root@web05-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com>

Hi Tracey,

Earlier in the year I had the privilege of holding the main mass of Hambleton on a visit to Robs collection just before his auction where most of his collection was sold. At the auction the main masses of Hambleton did not sell, so I assume Rob still has them unless he had offers following the auction.


http://i760.photobucket.com/albums/xx244/Graham-Ensor/P1040809.jpg

Graham, UK
 
---- tracy latimer <daistiho at hotmail.com> wrote: 
> 
> Hambleton is particularly interesting, as it was found by one of our own, Rob Elliot.? Once Fernlea Meteorites folded, however, I have no idea what happened to either the main mass or any subsequent slices.? At one point I was hoping to buy some crumbs from him, as this pallasite had a very thick oxidized rind and was prone to spalling off fragments.? I'm glad to see there is at least one slice out there!
> 
> Best!
> Tracy Latimer
> 
> ----------------------------------------
> > Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 17:43:42 +0100
> > From: mjmazur at gmail.com
> > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > Subject: [meteorite-list] SALE - 192g Moss and 159g Hambleton
> >
> > For anyone who may be interested, I have large pieces of both Moss
> > (CO3.5) and Hambleton (Pallasite) currently listed on Ebay.
> >
> > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&Item=170416693146
> > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&Item=170416304736
> >
> > Both auctions close in less than 2 days.
> >
> > Mike
> > ______________________________________________
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>  		 	   		  
> _________________________________________________________________
> Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft?s powerful SPAM protection.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141664/direct/01/
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From cynapse at charter.net  Mon Dec 14 21:36:57 2009
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 21:36:57 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Ho-hum, more planets.
In-Reply-To: <3BCFE40DB37240FD92B45B2A14C049C5@ATARIENGINE2>
References: <3F971E68-1FEA-462C-B3AA-CA9D8F8B1CCC@notkin.net>
	<ppuci5dofsh78328ce8o6ebu300r13gsmr@4ax.com>
	<6D8F528139D44CC68482C188491CC9B0@ATARIENGINE2>
	<1i7di5lmcv4k044b4m3o0dp12p3e1nuav8@4ax.com>
	<3859CE889378438292A87A11E3175B5D@ATARIENGINE2>
	<8qbdi5dhqhl3cfe6vgu72h273qi0a1ajvh@4ax.com>
	<3BCFE40DB37240FD92B45B2A14C049C5@ATARIENGINE2>
Message-ID: <2itdi5hhal9p029ct0i03cc3dn98mf644h@4ax.com>

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/12/14/astronomers-add-at-least-4-new-low-mass-planets-to-their-posse/


From meteoritekid at gmail.com  Mon Dec 14 21:47:40 2009
From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 18:47:40 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Brain Mason - the passing of another of the greats
Message-ID: <93aaac890912141847j4a173614w8048ee4f78d8e71b@mail.gmail.com>

Hello All,
I thought I should pass this forward.
My father just informed me that Brian Mason's obituary appeared in
today's copy of the LA times; he passed December 3rd of this year.
He published countless publications and a number of well-received
books over the past several decades and was a major contributor to the
modern field of meteoritics.  He'll most likely be best remembered for
his book "Meteorites" published back in 1962, a work that's still
often referenced today.
An all too-short biography can be found here.

http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/meteorites/2/5

Best,
Jason


From cdtucson at cox.net  Mon Dec 14 15:09:34 2009
From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 15:09:34 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Tucson 2010 Show Website and News
In-Reply-To: <7C640E28081AEE4B952F008D1E913F170253082B@0461-its-exmb04.us.saic.com>
Message-ID: <20091214150934.R9OB6.190257.imail@fed1rmwml37>

Rob, 
It all depends on when you go to either cities. Tucson's February weather makes it the peak tourist season. In a town filled with world class golf coarses
people are willing to pay for what they get.
You don't have to shovel sunshine.
If you want cheap? Go to Tucson during the Summer and then compare room rates with Vegas. Vegas is higher during the Summer than Tucson is. Why? Because it is there busiest season. The Hotels are kept very cool and there is nothing else to do there but stay inside and gamble in the Summer time. 
Tucson will soon have the largest Ritz Carlton Hotel in the World (opening this January). They did not chose to build it in Tucson because of the casinos. World Class Gambling aside, Tucson is a Much, Much better place to be than Vegas anytime! Carl
--
Carl or Debbie Esparza
Meteoritemax


---- "Matson wrote: 
> Just to counter this view, if the show moved to Vegas, I would go
> every year -- and enjoy staying in fabulous hotels at the same price
> as a flea-infested 1-star in Tucson during the show. Don't get me
> wrong -- I've enjoyed every one of my Tucson visits, but the hotel/
> motel price-jacking during the show is a serious sore point with
> me. I think we all know what $130/night for a hotel will get you
> in Tucson in early February.  For that same price or less, you can
> stay in any one of a dozen 4-star hotels on the Strip.  --Rob
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Don Edwards
> Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 11:07 AM
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Tucson 2010 Show Website and News
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> > Geoff wrote:
> > 
> > And FYI: The Tucson gem show is NOT moving to Las Vegas or anywhere 
> > else? : )
> 
> Personally, if the show moves to Las Vegas, I won't go. 
> 
> 2010 will be my 6th (straight) show, and I have tentative plans to go (to Tucson) for many more years but I won't go to Las Vegas, even once.
> 
> Just my personal opinion/reaction to Las Vegas (yes, I've been there on a vacation tour).
> 
> Don
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From cdtucson at cox.net  Mon Dec 14 13:58:56 2009
From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 13:58:56 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Tucson 2010 Show Website and News
In-Reply-To: <341421.8594.qm@web30702.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20091214135856.OYE70.188933.imail@fed1rmwml37>

Adam,
You may be right but consider this.
Nascar is a one trick pony. It has nobody to replace them. So off they go to Vegas. Seems very wise to me.
Tucson is a completely different animal.
If anyone leaves any venue in Tucson there are ten others in line to take there place.
Seriously. any of the many gem shows leaving Tucson would be suicidal. It would be like venders pulling out of Costco. 
You would have to be an idiot to do that. Like The Tucson Gem show, there would be many in line to take your spot.
After all to be in Costco selling your product means instant success. 
Vegas will never replace Tucson. What would happen if Vegas takes off is that there would be one more gem show to attend. It would never replace Tucson but would add to the chain of 
regularly scheduled shows that dealers would be forced to attend. Potentially doubling overhead and breaking some dealers. 
There are only so many buyers and having two shows might be a bit much.
Besides all that. IMHO. Vegas is for Vegas type stuff. There are only so many black chips to go around. It would be like moving the Gem show to Disneyland. Too many distractions. Peeps don't go to Disneyland to buy rocks and gems. 
No, I think Tucson may be like EBay or Costco. they basically own the market and only a fool would leave. 
And one other thing. Tucson is going to be building yet another bridge across the freeway in the down town area. This will greatly benefit the gem show goers. 
My 2 cents.
Thanks
Carl 
--
Carl or Debbie Esparza
Meteoritemax


---- Adam Hupe <raremeteorites at yahoo.com> wrote: 
> Geoff wrote:
> 
> And FYI: The Tucson gem show is NOT moving to Las Vegas or anywhere else  : )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am definitely going to the show this year since it may be of the last.  I would hate to see it leave but do not see the Tucson City council doing anything to make it stay.
> 
> NASCAR, the largest spectator sport in the world just moved its annual championship banquet to Las Vegas after spending 30 plus years in New York.  They thought NASCAR would never change this venue and look what happened.  Several large concerns have moved their shows to Las Vegas because they are making unbeatable deals and catering to clients needs more than ever before.
> 
> >From what I have heard, Tucson has not lifted a finger to prevent the largest promoter from leaving and taking several thousand vendors with him. Do not underestimate Las Vegas, they have a way of getting what they want and they are already in a position to take.   They are very hungry right now and an additional $100,000,000 in annual revenues is pretty attractive. They could accommodate this show very easily, cater much better to vendor needs and much cheaper. 
> 
> Here is the link to NASCAR discussing their move to Las Vegas:
> http://www.cbssports.com/autoracing/story/12615099/nascars-las-vegas-banquet-bet-pays-off
> 
> 
> I hope the Tucson City Council members take note and makes the Gem and Mineral show a better experience.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Adam
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


From meteoritekid at gmail.com  Mon Dec 14 22:33:38 2009
From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 19:33:38 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Brain Mason - the passing of another of the
	greats
In-Reply-To: <93aaac890912141847j4a173614w8048ee4f78d8e71b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <93aaac890912141847j4a173614w8048ee4f78d8e71b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <93aaac890912141933r3e2a9595ud61f74bd5c08ed77@mail.gmail.com>

Ah, and there's a perfect example of how auto-spellcheck can backfire
quite remarkably.
I'm sorry for that...Brian's memory deserves better.
Jason

On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 6:47 PM, Jason Utas <meteoritekid at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello All,
> I thought I should pass this forward.
> My father just informed me that Brian Mason's obituary appeared in
> today's copy of the LA times; he passed December 3rd of this year.
> He published countless publications and a number of well-received
> books over the past several decades and was a major contributor to the
> modern field of meteoritics. ?He'll most likely be best remembered for
> his book "Meteorites" published back in 1962, a work that's still
> often referenced today.
> An all too-short biography can be found here.
>
> http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/meteorites/2/5
>
> Best,
> Jason
>


From meteoriteplaya at gmail.com  Mon Dec 14 23:19:27 2009
From: meteoriteplaya at gmail.com (Mike Jensen)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 21:19:27 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Brain Mason - the passing of another of the
	greats
In-Reply-To: <93aaac890912141847j4a173614w8048ee4f78d8e71b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <93aaac890912141847j4a173614w8048ee4f78d8e71b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6f9da8300912142019j647055c2gc4da052972afdd3b@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All
Here is a couple of somewhat better obituary's;
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/08/AR2009120804129.html
http://www.royalsociety.org.nz/Site/about/our_structure/fellows/bmasonobituary.aspx


Mike


Mike Jensen Meteorites
16730 E Ada PL
Aurora, CO 80017-3137
USA
720-949-6220
IMCA 4264
website: www.jensenmeteorites.com


On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 7:47 PM, Jason Utas <meteoritekid at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello All,
> I thought I should pass this forward.
> My father just informed me that Brian Mason's obituary appeared in
> today's copy of the LA times; he passed December 3rd of this year.
> He published countless publications and a number of well-received
> books over the past several decades and was a major contributor to the
> modern field of meteoritics. ?He'll most likely be best remembered for
> his book "Meteorites" published back in 1962, a work that's still
> often referenced today.
> An all too-short biography can be found here.
>
> http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/meteorites/2/5
>
> Best,
> Jason
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


From michael at rocksfromspace.org  Mon Dec 14 23:26:02 2009
From: michael at rocksfromspace.org (Michael Johnson)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 20:26:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: HOLIDAYS AUCTIONS END THIS WEEK & SUPER SALE
 UNDERWAY.... THE BIG ONE FOR THE YEAR!!
Message-ID: <1527674189.625301260851162067.JavaMail.root@mbs1.homesteadmail.com>

Michael Cottingham is having trouble posting and asked me to send this for him:

Begin forwarded message:


From: michael cottingham <mikewren at gilanet.com>
Date: December 14, 2009 7:57:23 PM GMT-07:00
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: AD:  HOLIDAY AUCTIONS END THIS WEEK & Super Sale Underway.... The Big One For The Year!


Hello All,

THIS IS MY LARGEST EBAY AUCTION RUN AND HOLIDAY SALE!  It is underway right now.  There a thousands of dollars worth of meteorites up for 0.99 cent auctions and I am wheeling and dealing on all the rest!

Go to this link for all auctions:


SEE ALL AUCTIONS AT ONCE!
http://shop.ebay.com:80/meteorite-collector/m.html?LH_Auction=1&_trksid=p3911.c0.m301


SEE ALL ITEMS ON SALE IN MY STORE!
http://stores.ebay.com/voyage-botanica-natural-history


Happy Holiday's to all!

Best Wishes

Michael Cottingham






From meteoriteplaya at gmail.com  Mon Dec 14 23:28:06 2009
From: meteoriteplaya at gmail.com (Mike Jensen)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 21:28:06 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Brain Mason - the passing of another of the
	greats
In-Reply-To: <6f9da8300912142019j647055c2gc4da052972afdd3b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <93aaac890912141847j4a173614w8048ee4f78d8e71b@mail.gmail.com>
	<6f9da8300912142019j647055c2gc4da052972afdd3b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6f9da8300912142028n34ab586q36bcc00cc576a26f@mail.gmail.com>

Hey
Check out the last sentence of the Washington Post article;
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/08/AR2009120804129.html

In 2002, a writer for the online magazine Meteorite Times wrote about
visiting Dr. Mason at the Smithsonian, reflecting on "the
juxtaposition of Dr. Mason being pushed out of the way by kids running
through the exhibit. He took it in stride, but it brought home to me
both why he would avoid the cattle herds of the public sector, but
also that it took decades of painstaking laboratory work, much of it
by Dr. Mason himself, to reduce the intensely complex story
well-hidden within meteorites into a set of digestible displays of
which much of the educated public can consume within a few minutes . .
. and kids can run through for fun."

It is by Martin Horejsi
http://www.meteorite-times.com/Back_Links/2002/May/Accretion_Desk.htm


Mike

Mike Jensen Meteorites
16730 E Ada PL
Aurora, CO 80017-3137
USA
720-949-6220
IMCA 4264
website: www.jensenmeteorites.co


On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 9:19 PM, Mike Jensen <meteoriteplaya at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi All
> Here is a couple of somewhat better obituary's;
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/08/AR2009120804129.html
> http://www.royalsociety.org.nz/Site/about/our_structure/fellows/bmasonobituary.aspx
>
>
> Mike
>
>
> Mike Jensen Meteorites
> 16730 E Ada PL
> Aurora, CO 80017-3137
> USA
> 720-949-6220
> IMCA 4264
> website: www.jensenmeteorites.com
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 7:47 PM, Jason Utas <meteoritekid at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hello All,
>> I thought I should pass this forward.
>> My father just informed me that Brian Mason's obituary appeared in
>> today's copy of the LA times; he passed December 3rd of this year.
>> He published countless publications and a number of well-received
>> books over the past several decades and was a major contributor to the
>> modern field of meteoritics. ?He'll most likely be best remembered for
>> his book "Meteorites" published back in 1962, a work that's still
>> often referenced today.
>> An all too-short biography can be found here.
>>
>> http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/meteorites/2/5
>>
>> Best,
>> Jason
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>


m


From parkforestmet at hotmail.com  Mon Dec 14 23:52:37 2009
From: parkforestmet at hotmail.com (bill kies)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 22:52:37 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Brian Mason - the passing of another of
	the	greats
In-Reply-To: <6f9da8300912142028n34ab586q36bcc00cc576a26f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <93aaac890912141847j4a173614w8048ee4f78d8e71b@mail.gmail.com>,
	<6f9da8300912142019j647055c2gc4da052972afdd3b@mail.gmail.com>,
	<6f9da8300912142028n34ab586q36bcc00cc576a26f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SNT102-W31F2ADC57FBC93DED2FB7AA2880@phx.gbl>


> Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 21:28:06 -0700
> From: meteoriteplaya at gmail.com
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Brain Mason - the passing of another of the greats
> 
> Hey
> Check out the last sentence of the Washington Post article;
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/08/AR2009120804129.html
> 
> In 2002, a writer for the online magazine Meteorite Times wrote about
> visiting Dr. Mason at the Smithsonian, reflecting on "the
> juxtaposition of Dr. Mason being pushed out of the way by kids running
> through the exhibit. He took it in stride, but it brought home to me
> both why he would avoid the cattle herds of the public sector, but
> also that it took decades of painstaking laboratory work, much of it
> by Dr. Mason himself, to reduce the intensely complex story
> well-hidden within meteorites into a set of digestible displays of
> which much of the educated public can consume within a few minutes . .
> . and kids can run through for fun."
> 
> It is by Martin Horejsi
> http://www.meteorite-times.com/Back_Links/2002/May/Accretion_Desk.htm
> 
> 
> Mike
> 
> Mike Jensen Meteorites
> 16730 E Ada PL
> Aurora, CO 80017-3137
> USA
> 720-949-6220
> IMCA 4264
> website: www.jensenmeteorites.co
> 
> 
> On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 9:19 PM, Mike Jensen <meteoriteplaya at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi All
>> Here is a couple of somewhat better obituary's;
>> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/08/AR2009120804129.html
>> http://www.royalsociety.org.nz/Site/about/our_structure/fellows/bmasonobituary.aspx
>>
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>> Mike Jensen Meteorites
>> 16730 E Ada PL
>> Aurora, CO 80017-3137
>> USA
>> 720-949-6220
>> IMCA 4264
>> website: www.jensenmeteorites.com
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 7:47 PM, Jason Utas <meteoritekid at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hello All,
>>> I thought I should pass this forward.
>>> My father just informed me that Brian Mason's obituary appeared in
>>> today's copy of the LA times; he passed December 3rd of this year.
>>> He published countless publications and a number of well-received
>>> books over the past several decades and was a major contributor to the
>>> modern field of meteoritics.  He'll most likely be best remembered for
>>> his book "Meteorites" published back in 1962, a work that's still
>>> often referenced today.
>>> An all too-short biography can be found here.
>>>
>>> http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/meteorites/2/5
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Jason
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>>
> 
> 
> m
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222984/direct/01/

From michael at rocksfromspace.org  Tue Dec 15 00:12:03 2009
From: michael at rocksfromspace.org (Michael Johnson)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 21:12:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December 15,
	2009
Message-ID: <151822845.627641260853923975.JavaMail.root@mbs1.homesteadmail.com>

http://www.rocksfromspace.org/December_15_2009.html



From minador at yahoo.com  Tue Dec 15 01:03:09 2009
From: minador at yahoo.com (Mark Bowling)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 22:03:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Its Not A Crater
In-Reply-To: <f0a794130912141610h11bba6f7x34a4191e8b52b732@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <768442.63258.qm@web54504.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

A fence will not be a deterrent for deer, and they'll get to the salt blocks left for the cows. 

I thought it was interesting that it's along side the path.  Good luck none the less!  I would definitely follow up... 

Mark

--- On Mon, 12/14/09, Mike Hankey <mike.hankey at gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Mike Hankey <mike.hankey at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Its Not A Crater
> To: "Dave Myers" <whitefalcons007 at yahoo.com>
> Cc: "meteoritelist" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Date: Monday, December 14, 2009, 5:10 PM
> Dave,
> 
> Thanks for the reply. This is a cow pasture and there are a
> lot of
> hoof prints in and around the hole (around the entire field
> really). I
> will ask him about the salt blocks. The pasture is fenced
> in, so if he
> did leave anything out, it wouldn't be for deer, but only
> cows.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Mike
> 
> On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 7:06 PM, Dave Myers <whitefalcons007 at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> > Hi Mike and list,
> > ?coming from a family of farmers in Ohio, (and deer
> hunters,) It looks from the photos that there are a lot of
> animal tracks around it, I would ask the farmer if salt
> blocks were placed there for years. The animals will
> > dig a pit after many years! even a couple.
> >
> > If he says No, Get a back hole and dig!
> >
> > Dave
> >
> > --- On Mon, 12/14/09, Mike Hankey <mike.hankey at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> From: Mike Hankey <mike.hankey at gmail.com>
> >> Subject: [meteorite-list] Its Not A Crater
> >> To: "meteoritelist" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> >> Date: Monday, December 14, 2009, 10:37 PM
> >> Hi Guys,
> >>
> >> I was wondering around the fields of Lancaster PA
> near the
> >> high mass
> >> zone of the newly computed fall line and happened
> across a
> >> really
> >> weird hole. The hole is 5 feet wide, 6 feet long
> and about
> >> 16 inches
> >> deep.
> >>
> >> I posted pictures and information here:
> >>
> >> http://www.mikesastrophotos.com/baltimore-pa-meteor/its-not-a-crater/
> >>
> >> I'm not saying this is a crater by any means and
> I
> >> understand that
> >> meteorites do not make craters 99.9% of the time,
> however I
> >> still
> >> think its really weird and I wanted to get some
> feedback as
> >> to what
> >> you guys think.
> >>
> >> Please read the post and look at the pictures and
> lmk your
> >> thoughts.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Mike
> >> ______________________________________________
> >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> >> Meteorite-list mailing list
> >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


From minador at yahoo.com  Tue Dec 15 01:05:07 2009
From: minador at yahoo.com (Mark Bowling)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 22:05:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Tucson 2010 Show Website and News
In-Reply-To: <be3.5667235e.3857f924@aol.com>
Message-ID: <467566.51972.qm@web54506.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Hi Anne & all,
 
People keep bringing up a great point.  I've seen other shows crater because they were in cities with too many attractions (specifically Anaheim).  People bring their families and a lot of the attendees spend a few days at Disney Land.  So the shows suffer because of the many distractions.
 
That being said, it's folly for Tucson to ignore the problems.  The show could move to Marana or another nearby community which is more business friendly outside the state (Milwaukee lost GenCon to Indianapolis - a great venue with hardly any distractions, probably my favorite show city...).
 
Moving next door to Marana or Oro Valley would not a problem for us, but it would be bad for the city.  If a lot of the dealers pull out, I doubt the Tucson Gem & Mineral Society would follow.  So the show would go on in some fashion.  If attendance drops, then hotel prices should follow.  It's difficult to tell if the poor attendance last year was caused by the growing infrastructure problems, or the recession.  I know jewelry dealers who were happy with last year.  It's such a big show, I don't see a drastic change, but maybe a slow decline if things don't improve.
 
But if the all of the dealers DID manage to move and the Society dissolved, I wouldn't follow.  I'd start going to Denver, Munich or Ensisheim...  I hope the City starts to do a better job!
 
Hoping for a bigger, brighter (& drier) Tucson show!!   Good luck to all the dealers!
 
Mark B.
Vail, AZ

--- On Mon, 12/14/09, Impactika at aol.com <Impactika at aol.com> wrote:

> From: Impactika at aol.com <Impactika at aol.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Tucson 2010 Show Website and News
> To: raremeteorites at yahoo.com, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Cc: geoking at notkin.net
> Date: Monday, December 14, 2009, 1:25 PM
> Hello Adam and all,
>  
> Do you know that the Las Vegas Gem Show used to be a
> full-fledged Rocks and 
> Minerals Show years ago? I had many occasions to talk to
> some of the 
> largest mineral dealers doing that Show, and I was told
> repeatedly that it was a 
> very poor Show financially and attendance. Probably because
> the public was 
> distracted by the other "attractions" of Vegas. Maybe it is
> why it was 
> down-sized to a Gem only Show. And I do know a gem dealer
> who is considering 
> dropping it because it is not worth his time.
> And if the Tucson Show moves to Vegas, I will probably stop
> doing it too. 
> And Yes, I have been in Vegas many times, it is an amusing
> place from an 
> architectural point of view, and shopping is pretty good,
> but that's about it.
> And I just checked _www.Hotels.com_ (http://www.Hotels.com) , there is 
> still half a dozen hotels (Super 8, Comfort Inn,....) with
> rooms for less than 
> $100 a night for the weekend of Feb 4 to Feb. 8. The Big
> Weekend.
>  
> Now about the Real Tucson Show. 
> I have been very busy preparing it too, Only six
> weeks!!!!???Time flies.
>  
> I have way too much inventory, so for the first time ever I
> will have a 
> Sales/Bargains corner with a very wide assortment of
> things, even a few 
> thin-sections.
>  
> Speaking of Thin-Sections, I will have ET's collection with
> me in addition 
> to my own, so that's about 800 thin-sections. And I might
> receive another 
> batch before the show.
>  
> And I will have a couple surprises in Exclusivity. More
> about that very 
> soon.
>  
> And Alain Carion has a new book out just in time for
> Tucson, and since I 
> had the pleasure to translate it, I will have the pleasure
> to present it in 
> Tucson. 
>  
> And I am sure I am forgetting a lot of other things.
> More soon.
>  
> Anne M. Black
> _http://www.impactika.com/_ (http://www.impactika.com/) 
> _IMPACTIKA at aol.com_
> (mailto:IMPACTIKA at aol.com)
> 
> Vice-President, I.M.C.A. Inc.
> _http://www.imca.cc/_ (http://www.imca.cc/) 
>  
>  
>  
>  
> In a message dated 12/14/2009 11:22:50 AM Mountain Standard
> Time, 
> raremeteorites at yahoo.com
> writes:
> Geoff wrote:
> 
> And FYI: The Tucson gem show is NOT moving to Las Vegas or
> anywhere else? : 
> )
> 
> 
> I am definitely going to the show this year since it may be
> of the last.? I 
> would hate to see it leave but do not see the Tucson City
> council doing 
> anything to make it stay.
> 
> NASCAR, the largest spectator sport in the world just moved
> its annual 
> championship banquet to Las Vegas after spending 30 plus
> years in New York.? 
> They thought NASCAR would never change this venue and look
> what happened.? 
> Several large concerns have moved their shows to Las Vegas
> because they are 
> making unbeatable deals and catering to clients needs more
> than ever before.
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


From lintonius at earthlink.net  Tue Dec 15 03:49:41 2009
From: lintonius at earthlink.net (Linton Rohr)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 00:49:41 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December
	15, 2009
References: <151822845.627641260853923975.JavaMail.root@mbs1.homesteadmail.com>
Message-ID: <AA59D32C30B442E9A3177060DB102C99@D190TH71>

Nice one, Gary. Go with the flow!
Thanks for sharing, Michael.
Linton

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michael Johnson" <michael at rocksfromspace.org>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 9:12 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December 
15,2009


> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/December_15_2009.html
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 



From cynapse at charter.net  Tue Dec 15 07:09:27 2009
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 07:09:27 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Mammoth-killing comet hypothesis pooped on again
In-Reply-To: <977050.39702.qm@web57803.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
References: <977050.39702.qm@web57803.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <dsuei550gecsg9fep79skgsvbb7cf0m8k9@4ax.com>

http://www.canada.com/technology/MAMMOTH+DISCOVERY/2340164/story.html

Mammoth discovery: researchers find woolly beasts went extinct slowly
 
By Margaret Munro, Canwest News ServiceDecember 14, 2009

The bones of the woolly mammoth may be spectacular, but scientists say droppings
reveal a more complete story about the shaggy beast's demise.

"Genetic fossils" left by feces and urine show the woolly mammoths grazed along
the Yukon River thousands of years longer than previously believed, an
international team reported Monday.

One of the samples, taken from ancient permafrost, indicates the creatures were
still around as recently as 7,600 to 10,000 years ago.

The findings blow holes in a theory that the mammoths and other ice age
megafauna like sabre-toothed tigers were wiped out when a comet or some sort of
extraterrestrial impact hit the earth 13,000 years ago.

Overkill by early hunters when they arrived in North America or some sort of
"hyperdisease" have also been invoked to try explain the extinctions.

"Our findings suggest that these events, if they occurred as classically
conceived, did not deliver the death blow," the team reports in the Proceedings
of the National Academy of Sciences.

Rather the new evidence points to a slow decline over several thousand years.

"It's provocative, but I think goes a distance to understanding the dynamics of
what happened," says co-author Duane Froese, an earth scientist at the
University of Alberta, who led the team to a well-preserved ancient outcropping
of permafrost on the banks of the Yukon River in Alaska.

The DNA in the permafrost has been frozen in place since it hit the ground and
points to the increasing value of droppings, which are much more plentiful that
bones and fossils.

"An animal leaves only one skeleton," Froese told Canwest News Service on
Monday. But they "shed DNA" throughout their lifetime in their feces and urine.

He says the DNA the team has uncovered in the permafrost gives an intriguing
"snap shot" of when central Alaska and the Yukon was a much drier, colder place.
While covered with trees today, it would have been windswept grassland 10,000
years ago.

And the frozen dirt reveals the region was one of the "ghost ranges" of the
mammoth as the population dwindled away.

DNA from the mammoth and prehistoric horse was found in a permafrost layer that
dates to between 10,500 and 7,600 years ago, which is between 2,600 and 5,600
years after the animals' supposed extinction.

The findings indicate the mammoth and horse coexisted with the first human
immigrants in America for 3,500 years and "were therefore not wiped out by human
beings or natural disasters within a few hundred years, as common theories
otherwise argue," team leader Eske Willerslev of the University of Copenhagen
said in a statement released with the study. 


From drtanuki at yahoo.com  Tue Dec 15 07:18:20 2009
From: drtanuki at yahoo.com (drtanuki)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 04:18:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Duluth, MN fireball video 11DEC09
Message-ID: <16431.9172.qm@web53102.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Dear List Members,
  A fireball video from Duluth, MN on 11DEC09.  It was seen from MN to the Dakotas:

http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.com/2009/12/duluth-mn-fireball-11dec09-15dec09.html

Best Regards, Dirk Ross...Tokyo


From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com  Tue Dec 15 07:25:04 2009
From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 04:25:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] (AD) HALF PRICE 2ND ROUND/SALE
Message-ID: <214425.34262.qm@web57803.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Hi list.I really want to move these last pieces so all half price if interested.I added a couple more far below what they should go for,so here is the final half price list
________________________________________________________________
1.santa do vitoria palmar????? 58 gram slice????????????? $250/$125
2.vaca muerta??????????????????????? 6 gram part-slice?????? $40/$20
3. canyon diablo?????????????????? 15 grams?????????????????? $25/$12.50
4.henbury????????????????????????????? 13 grams????????????????? $25/$12.50
5.tatahouine??????????????????????????? 1 gram???????????????????? $10/$5
6.unclassified stone ind.????????? 31 grams????????????????? $30/$15
7.mercedes???????????????????????????? 32 gram fragment?? smf/eduardo card? $100
8.nwa 047?????????????? .78 gra, part slice? eucrite?????????? $50/$25?????????? 
_________________________________________________________________
?Again off list and as usual free shipping.Im making way for a huge piece I just got in a trade.
Steve R. Arnold, Chicago!! 


From oxytropidoceras at cox.net  Tue Dec 15 08:06:38 2009
From: oxytropidoceras at cox.net (Paul H.)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 8:06:38 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Unveiling Mysterious Possible Comet Strikes on
	Earth
Message-ID: <20091215080638.QPVVK.198358.imail@eastrmwml39>

Unveiling Mysterious Possible Comet Strikes on Earth
Science Daily, Dec. 15, 2009

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/12/091214075217.htm

Yours,

Paul H.


From miss_meteorite at yahoo.ca  Tue Dec 15 08:01:12 2009
From: miss_meteorite at yahoo.ca (Melanie Matthews)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 05:01:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Ordinary chondrites - rarest to the most common
	classes
Message-ID: <846731.54222.qm@web114007.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

G'mornin' listites,, 
What is the least common type of ordinary chondrite, as well as the most common? 


Thanks  
-----------
Melanie
IMCA: 2975
eBay: metmel2775
Known on SkyRock Cafe as SpaceCollector09

Unclassified meteorites are like a box of chocolates... you never know what you're gonna get!



      __________________________________________________________________
Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! 

http://www.flickr.com/gift/



From oxytropidoceras at cox.net  Tue Dec 15 08:19:40 2009
From: oxytropidoceras at cox.net (Paul H.)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 8:19:40 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Science Daily Article About Pleistocene
	Extinctions in
Message-ID: <20091215081940.4YK9E.198572.imail@eastrmwml39>

Ancient DNA from Dirt, Not Fossilized Bones, Shows Late Survival of 
Woolly Mammoth and Other Ice Age Megafauna, Science Daily,
December 14, 2009

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/12/091214151946.htm

I am waiting for this paper to be published.

a related article is:

Mammoths Survived In Britain Until 14,000 Years Ago, New Discovery 
Suggests, Science Daily, June 18, 2009

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/06/090617201758.htm

The papers are:

Lister, A. M., 2009, te-glacial mammoth skeletons (Mammuthu
sprimigenius) from Condover (Shropshire, UK): anatomy, pathology, 
taphonomy and chronological significance. Geological Journal.
vol. 44, no. 4, pp. 447-479.

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/122440134/abstract
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/122458788/issue

Allen, J. R. M., J. D. Scourse, A. R. Hall,and  G. R. Coope,
2009, Palaeoenvironmental context of the Late-glacial woolly 
mammoth (Mammuthus primigenius) discoveries at Condover, 
Shropshire, UK. Geological Journal. vol. 44, no. 4, pp. 414-446

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/122425954/abstract
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/122458788/issue

Scourse, J. D., G. R. Coope, J. R. M. Allen, A. M. Lister, R. A. 
Housley, R. E. M. Hedges, A. S. G. Jones, and R. Watkins,
2009, Late-glacial remains of woolly mammoth (Mammuthus 
primigenius) from Shropshire, UK: stratigraphy, sedimentology 
and geochronology of the Condover site. Geological Journal. 
vol. 44, no. 4, pp. 392-413.

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/122425957/abstract
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/122458788/issue

Yours,

Paul H,


From oxytropidoceras at cox.net  Tue Dec 15 08:39:05 2009
From: oxytropidoceras at cox.net (Paul H.)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 8:39:05 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Absence of Evidence for a Meteorite Impact Event
	13, 000 Years Ago
Message-ID: <20091215083905.S1IDW.198884.imail@eastrmwml39>

Absence of Evidence for a Meteorite Impact Event 13,000 Years Ago
Science Daily, Dec. 14, 2009) ? An international team of scientists led 
by researchers at the University of Hawaii at Manoa has found no 
evidence supporting an extraterrestrial impact event at the onset of 
the Younger Dryas approximately 13,000 years ago.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/12/091208132734.htm

The paper is:

Paquay, F. S. G. Ravizza, S. Goderis, P. Claeys, S. Goderis, F. Vanhaeck, 
M. Boyd, T. A. Surovell, V. T. Holliday, and C. V. Haynes, Jr., 2009, Absence 
of geochemical evidence for an impact event at the B?lling?Aller?d/Younger 
Dryas transition.  Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 
Published online before print December 10, 2009, doi: 10.1073/pnas.0908874106 

http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2009/12/09/0908874106

http://www.pnas.org/search?fulltext=Pleistocene+extinction&sortspec=date&submit=Submit&andorexactfulltext=phrase

Yours,

Paul H.


From fujmon at mac.com  Tue Dec 15 11:49:09 2009
From: fujmon at mac.com (Gary Fujihara)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 06:49:09 -1000
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD-Christmas Countdown Clearance
Message-ID: <2CD6B9A4-91BD-422E-86B6-3549FE372A0C@mac.com>

Aloha listees,

With just ten more days before xmas, present purchasing procrastinators (like me) have a lot of discounted meteorites to choose from in my ebay auction ending this Saturday, December 19 starting at 7:30 am PST / 10:30 am Eastern / 3:30 pm London / 5:30 pm Helsinki / 11:30 pm Singapore.

Park Forest L5 4.6g slice w/ dual lithologies, currently at $99
Chinga Ataxite 173g Mirror Finish Slice, starts at $199
NWA x poss type 3 Chondrule Lovers endcut starts at $530
NWA 2975 Martian shergottite individuals 0.16, 0.56, from $59
D'Orbigny Angrite 0.03, 0.10, 0.23g frags, starting from $12
Juancheng H5 Oriented 5.42g individual w/ flowlines, $19
Allende CV3.2  3.44g  AAA fragment w/ huge CAI, $8.77/g
Allende CV3.2  Slices & Individuals starting at only $10/g
Murchison CM2 0.03, 0.27, 0.42g Fresh crusted frags 
Camel Donga Euc  5.93g Flowlined beauty, starting @ $75
Millbillillie Euc  18.85g  AAA Private Reserve steal $225
NWA 1877 Oli Dio 3.25g  Very Rare big frag, starts @ 99?
NWA 5701 L3 10.6g  Fresh crusted slab, starts @ 99?

... and the usual assortment of quality NWA x stones, slices & pallasite, Bassikounou, Chergach, Bilanga, Henbury, Mundrabilla, a Drop Dead Gorgeous Red Crystal Mantle Xenolith (Olivine bomb) SLICE, Galileoscope, Apollo 11 40th Anniversary patch, and an Aerogel silica chunk.  A lot of cool stocking stuffers at all budget levels - See them all here:

http://shop.ebay.com/fujmon/m.html

Remember that you can count on the Big Kahuna to provide you with the highest quality authentic meteorites at the lowest prices on earth.

Gary Fujihara
Big Kahuna Meteorites (IMCA#1693)
105 Puhili Place, Hilo, Hawaii 96720
(808) 640-9161



From fujmon at mac.com  Tue Dec 15 11:59:46 2009
From: fujmon at mac.com (Gary Fujihara)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 06:59:46 -1000
Subject: [meteorite-list] Huge Geminid captured
Message-ID: <9D537064-397E-4F9A-925C-AD191E706B1E@mac.com>

Aloha listees,

I received an email from astro-friend Wally Pacholka, who is an astrophotographer extraordinaire, and who visited us on Mauna Kea earlier in the year for our Dark Sky Star Party <http://astroday.net/DSSP.html>.  In the email, Wally attached an incredible image of a Geminid fireball he caught Sunday night during the peak.  It is perhaps one of the most brilliant Geminids I have seen, both pictorially and in person.  Wally says that the Geminid shower from where he was located was "terrific last night - one of the best I have seen [except nov 2001 leonids]", and goes on to mention that this photo may be the largest Geminid catch on record.  Have a look here:  http://astroday.net/Images/_Geminid-Pacholka.jpg

By the way, Wally has a website, where many of his extraordinary astrophotos are posted and available in prints for sale:  http://AstroPics.com

Gary Fujihara
Big Kahuna Meteorites (IMCA#1693)
105 Puhili Place, Hilo, Hawaii 96720
(808) 640-9161



From mike.hankey at gmail.com  Tue Dec 15 12:10:48 2009
From: mike.hankey at gmail.com (Mike Hankey)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 12:10:48 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Its Not A Crater
In-Reply-To: <768442.63258.qm@web54504.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <f0a794130912141610h11bba6f7x34a4191e8b52b732@mail.gmail.com>
	<768442.63258.qm@web54504.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <f0a794130912150910k52cb5bf9v2f517dedbaade906@mail.gmail.com>

Hey Guys,

Thanks for all of the great feedback on this.

I think the prevailing theory would be: an animal started a hole maybe
digging for remnants of a salt block and then erosion and heifers made
the hole bigger over time. The hole is right next to the path the cows
take through the pasture and it was clear that the cows had stepped
all over the hole. Not sure they started it, but they certainly could
have made it worse.

Next time I'm out there I will ask the farmer about the salt block.
I'll also try to metal detect a little more around the hole. I'm
having a lot of problems with false positives on my metal detector. I
also don't think it will go very deep, so it wasn't very useful trying
to diagnose this hole.  The hole gave off beeps, but most of the land
around PA gives off beeps. The detector I'm using is:

http://www.kellycodetectors.com/minelab/minelab-relicdetectors.htm

If the farmer says no to the salt block, I'm not sure how I should
proceed, but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

Thanks again for the feedback!

Mike

On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 1:03 AM, Mark Bowling <minador at yahoo.com> wrote:
> A fence will not be a deterrent for deer, and they'll get to the salt blocks left for the cows.
>
> I thought it was interesting that it's along side the path. ?Good luck none the less! ?I would definitely follow up...
>
> Mark
>
> --- On Mon, 12/14/09, Mike Hankey <mike.hankey at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> From: Mike Hankey <mike.hankey at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Its Not A Crater
>> To: "Dave Myers" <whitefalcons007 at yahoo.com>
>> Cc: "meteoritelist" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>> Date: Monday, December 14, 2009, 5:10 PM
>> Dave,
>>
>> Thanks for the reply. This is a cow pasture and there are a
>> lot of
>> hoof prints in and around the hole (around the entire field
>> really). I
>> will ask him about the salt blocks. The pasture is fenced
>> in, so if he
>> did leave anything out, it wouldn't be for deer, but only
>> cows.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 7:06 PM, Dave Myers <whitefalcons007 at yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>> > Hi Mike and list,
>> > ?coming from a family of farmers in Ohio, (and deer
>> hunters,) It looks from the photos that there are a lot of
>> animal tracks around it, I would ask the farmer if salt
>> blocks were placed there for years. The animals will
>> > dig a pit after many years! even a couple.
>> >
>> > If he says No, Get a back hole and dig!
>> >
>> > Dave
>> >
>> > --- On Mon, 12/14/09, Mike Hankey <mike.hankey at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> From: Mike Hankey <mike.hankey at gmail.com>
>> >> Subject: [meteorite-list] Its Not A Crater
>> >> To: "meteoritelist" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>> >> Date: Monday, December 14, 2009, 10:37 PM
>> >> Hi Guys,
>> >>
>> >> I was wondering around the fields of Lancaster PA
>> near the
>> >> high mass
>> >> zone of the newly computed fall line and happened
>> across a
>> >> really
>> >> weird hole. The hole is 5 feet wide, 6 feet long
>> and about
>> >> 16 inches
>> >> deep.
>> >>
>> >> I posted pictures and information here:
>> >>
>> >> http://www.mikesastrophotos.com/baltimore-pa-meteor/its-not-a-crater/
>> >>
>> >> I'm not saying this is a crater by any means and
>> I
>> >> understand that
>> >> meteorites do not make craters 99.9% of the time,
>> however I
>> >> still
>> >> think its really weird and I wanted to get some
>> feedback as
>> >> to what
>> >> you guys think.
>> >>
>> >> Please read the post and look at the pictures and
>> lmk your
>> >> thoughts.
>> >>
>> >> Thanks,
>> >>
>> >> Mike
>> >> ______________________________________________
>> >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> >> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


From GeoZay at aol.com  Tue Dec 15 12:31:48 2009
From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 12:31:48 EST
Subject: [meteorite-list] Huge Geminid captured
Message-ID: <bf1.682258f0.38592204@aol.com>

>>I received an email from astro-friend  Wally Pacholka, who is an 
astrophotographer extraordinaire, <<

It  is indeed one of the nicer one's I've seen. The sparkle look appears to 
be due  to the use of a star filter of some kind however. Still, very nice  
looking.
geozay  



From joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com  Tue Dec 15 12:53:08 2009
From: joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com (JoshuaTreeMuseum)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 12:53:08 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Its Not A Crater
Message-ID: <B0F544FADF1A45A38D039A4A3C785F0D@ET>

Hey Mike,

This is definitely cow related.  I grew up on a dairy farm, and you saw 
these all the time along cow paths. They're going for the water.  As soon as 
I saw it, I knew what it was!

But then, when Nininger studied the Brenham crater, it was thought to be a 
buffalo wallow (hog waller).

Phil Whitmer 



From oxytropidoceras at cox.net  Tue Dec 15 14:29:35 2009
From: oxytropidoceras at cox.net (Paul H.)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 14:29:35 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] New Paper About cometary airbursts,
 atmospheric chemistry, and the Younger Dryas
Message-ID: <20091215142936.Z9KOD.193525.imail@eastrmwml32>

There is a new paper available online about cometary airbursts,
 atmospheric chemistry, and the hypothesized Younger Dryas
impact. It is:

Melott, A. L., B. C. Thomas, G. Dreschhoff, C. K. Johnson, 2009, 
Cometary airbursts and atmospheric chemistry: Tunguska and 
a candidate Younger Dryas event. 	arXiv:0907.1067v3 [astro-ph.EP]

Its web page and abstract is  at http://arxiv.org/abs/0907.1067

The PDF file of it is at http://arxiv.org/pdf/0907.1067v3

Comments: 	Accepted for publication in Geology. Replaced to 
conform with version shortened to meet publication size limits

Subjects: 	Earth and Planetary Astrophysics (astro-ph.EP); 
Atmospheric and Oceanic Physics (physics.ao-ph); 
Geophysics (physics.geo-ph)

Cite as: 	arXiv:0907.1067v3 [astro-ph.EP]

Yours,

Paul H.


From epgrondine at yahoo.com  Tue Dec 15 15:03:27 2009
From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 12:03:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] YD impacts: Something happened, but what and when?
Message-ID: <212911.86623.qm@web36908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi Paul, Darren, all - 

A couple of points are in order here. To show you how underfunded impact research is, for several decades Chichxulub was thought to be the only impact associated with the KT boundary, and now we have Shiva.

AS regards the hypothesized YD impactors, we are not talking about KT sized impactors. Traces are in the range of parts per million to parts per billion, and then in a very very thing layer. (Consider the searches at Tunguska.) 

Further, the 14C dates from this period are known to be "funky", often by several thousand years, making the search harder, and making sediment core sample dating very very difficult.

And since the impacts were not KT sized, you can expect wide regional variations. We know mammoth survived on Wrangel Island until very late. 

There's anothef factor here, which is that a small impact in the right place can trigger extreme effects, say one around glacial Lake Agassiz.

Aside from passing on some of the peoples' memories of these impacts:
http://forum.palanth.com/index.php/topic,1093.0.html
and noting the quarry abandonment, there's not much more I can add o this one. (But if any list member wants a copy of the Trempealeau petroglyph, email me.)

Tomorrow's AGU session promises to be interesting and "lively".

E.P. Grondine
Man and Impact in the Americas




      


From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Tue Dec 15 16:51:33 2009
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 13:51:33 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Personal Meteorite Collection Sale
Message-ID: <4B2804E5.5040507@meteoritesusa.com>

Hi All,

I hate to do this, but I've decided to sell some of my most prized 
collection pieces, including my only West Texas (Ash Creek) found 
"before" the first rain with absolutely pristine fusion crust and pale 
white interior! I also have two half cuts of a very rare unwa stone 
achondrite? eucrite? (unknown) with a HUGE iron inclusion, a WHITE 
matrix, and superb CRACKLY fusion crust.

Contact me off-list for a complete list of pieces, prices and terms of sale.

Regards,
Eric Wichman
Meteorites USA
Meteorite Blog
Meteorite Wiki




From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Tue Dec 15 17:48:01 2009
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 14:48:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA Partners with Saudi Arabia on Moon and
	Asteroid Research
Message-ID: <200912152248.nBFMm19P006682@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>



Dec. 15, 2009

Michael Braukus 
Headquarters, Washington 
202-358-1979 
michael.j.braukus at nasa.gov 

Michael Mewhinney 
Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, Calif. 
650-604-3937 
michael.mewhinney at nasa.gov 

RELEASE: 09-284

NASA PARTNERS WITH SAUDI ARABIA ON MOON AND ASTEROID RESEARCH

WASHINGTON -- NASA and the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia's King Abdulaziz 
City for Science and Technology (KACST) have signed a joint statement 
that allows for collaboration in lunar and asteroid science research. 
The partnership recognizes the Saudi Lunar and Near-Earth Object 
Science Center as an affiliate partner with the NASA Lunar Science 
Institute at NASA's Ames Research Center in Moffett Field, Calif. 

"This collaboration is within the scope of the Memorandum of 
Understanding on Science and Technology signed between the Kingdom of 
Saudi Arabia and the United States of America last year and later 
ratified by the Council of Ministers," said H.H. Dr. Turki Bin Saud 
Bin Mohammed Al-Saud, vice president for Research Institutes, KACST. 
"The international interest in lunar science and, more recently, near 
Earth objects led to the establishment of the Saudi Lunar and Near 
Earth Object Science Center as a focal point for lunar science and 
NEO studies in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. Furthermore, we are 
looking forward to our expanding collaboration with NASA for the 
benefit of both countries." 

"NASA's Lunar Science Institute exists to conduct cutting-edge lunar 
science and train the next generation of lunar scientists and 
explorers," said Greg Schmidt, institute deputy director at Ames. 
"Our international partnerships are critical for meeting these 
objectives, and we are very excited by the important science, 
training and education that our new Saudi colleagues bring to the 
NASA Lunar Science Institute." 

"This is an important advance in our growing program of bilateral 
science and technology cooperation," said U.S. Ambassador to Saudi 
Arabia James Smith. "It will help realize President Obama's goal, 
expressed in his June 4 speech to the Muslim world, of increasing our 
cooperation on science and technology, which we believe closely 
corresponds to King Abdullah's vision." 

The Saudi science center's proposal brings technical and engineering 
expertise to advance the broad goals of lunar science at the 
institute. Specific areas of lunar study of both scientific and 
cultural importance include radar and infrared imaging, laser ranging 
and imaging, and topographical studies. The center's studies in 
near-Earth object science also offer important contributions to an 
area of importance to NASA. 

"The Saudi Lunar and Near Earth Object Science Center's primary 
mission is to direct all lunar and near Earth object related research 
within the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia," said Dr. Haithem Altwaijry, 
deputy director of the National Satellite Technology Program at 
KACST. "It will reach out to students in addition to researchers and 
present fertile ground for scientific research." 

"NASA welcomes international cooperation for mutual benefit with 
organizations large and small in all regions of the world," said 
Michael O'Brien, assistant administrator for external relations at 
NASA Headquarters in Washington. "Our continuing discussions with 
Saudi Arabian officials may lead to future joint scientific 
collaboration in other areas of mutual interest." 

To learn more about the NASA Lunar Science Institute visit: 

http://lunarscience.nasa.gov 
	
-end-



From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Tue Dec 15 17:58:03 2009
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 14:58:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Trough Deposits on Mars Point to Complex
	Hydrologic Past
Message-ID: <200912152258.nBFMw35m009912@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>


http://www.psi.edu/press/

Trough Deposits on Mars Point to Complex Hydrologic Past
Ed Stiles
Public Information Office
Planetary Science Institute
520-248-7119
psinews at psi.edu

Dec. 15, 2009 - Catherine Weitz, a senior scientist at the
Tucson-based Planetary Science Institute, has reported new evidence for
multiple, water-related geologic processes on Mars.

She and her colleagues studied light-toned deposits (LTDs) within
troughs of the Noctis Labyrinthus region in western Valles Marineris
using data gathered by three Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter (MRO)
instruments: the High Resolution Imaging Science Experiment (HiRISE)
camera, the Context Camera (CTX) and the Compact Reconnaissance Imaging
Spectrometer for Mars (CRISM).

Weitz presented the research results today during a morning session of
the American Geophysical Union Conference in San Francisco, Calif.

"We analyzed ten troughs containing well-exposed LTDs, and we found a
lot of variability that we didn't expect to see," she said. "We found
that each of the troughs with LTDs has a unique mineralogy, and,
therefore, the processes occurring in each trough were very localized."

Weitz and her team identified various types of clays, hydrated silicas,
and sulfates in these small basins, which are typically 30 to 100
kilometers across. One LTD included dozens of beds of varying thickness,
brightness, color and erosional structure, suggesting that significant
amounts of water once existed there. In addition, sulfates were mixed
with clays within the deposits, indicating that ph levels may have
fluctuated between acidic and alkaline conditions.

Another LTD is buried several meters beneath wind-deposited material and
is only exposed in the trough's upper walls, indicating it is older than
the trough. In still another area, clays are buried beneath younger
plains along the trough floor, while in the same trough, but a few
kilometers away, there are exposures of hydrated silica and calcium
sulfate.

The wide variability in deposits and mineralogy in these and the other
basins suggests a complex hydrologic history, including multiple events
in some troughs, Weitz said.

"Clearly, these areas were affected by water," she added. "In some cases
there had to be multiple events. But we don't know how much water was
involved or whether it was always a flowing liquid."

"It might have been groundwater coming from Tharsis, the large volcanic
complex to the west," she said. "There could have been active volcanism
that produced water by melting snow, ice, or underground, hydrothermal
processes. These little basins could then have filled or partially
filled with some of that water. Another possibility is that material was
already in several of the troughs, perhaps as volcanic ash or lava
flows, and some kind of hydrothermal activity may have altered these
pre-existing deposits."

Weitz and her colleagues identified LTDs using the wide-range CTX camera
that covers about a 30 km swath at a spatial resolution of 6 meters per
pixel. Then they zeroed in on the areas of interest using HiRISE visible
light images that cover about a 5-km-wide area with a resolution of
about 26 centimeters per pixel.

Finally, the corresponding CRISM data -- in the visible and near
infrared regions -- revealed the hydrated minerals within each LTD.

"It's great to have these complementary data sets," Weitz said.
"Together, the synthesis of these three datasets provides valuable
morphologic and mineralogic information needed to interpret the geologic
setting and origin of the light-toned deposits within the troughs of
Noctis."

The LTDs both pre-date and post-date trough formation and occurred
between the Noachian (4.6 to 3.5 million years ago) and Amazonian (1.8
billion years ago to the present) eras. The sediments in the LTDs could
have formed at the bottom of lakes or pools, but materials also could
have been deposited by the wind or fallen as volcanic ash and then been
altered by water.

Noctis Labyrinthus is a region of Mars that's located between the
volcanic Tharsis upland and Valles Marineris, a huge system of canyons.

Those working with Weitz on the research include Janice Bishop, of SETI
Institute/NASA Ames; Leah Roach, of Frontier Technology; Ralph Milliken,
of the Jet Propulsion Laboratory/Caltech; and J. Alexis Rodriguez, of
the Planetary Science Institute.



From lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu  Tue Dec 15 19:04:41 2009
From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu (lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 17:04:41 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Magazine
In-Reply-To: <20091215081940.4YK9E.198572.imail@eastrmwml39>
References: <20091215081940.4YK9E.198572.imail@eastrmwml39>
Message-ID: <744bfaff31652e2228854ca43d004af2.squirrel@webmail.lpl.arizona.edu>

Hello Everyone:

Just to let you know that it looks like we will have the February issue of
Meteorite magazine sent out by the printers in time for the Tucson Gem and
Mineral Show! Since US snail mail is so slow, I am not sure if those
copies will arrive prior to the show, but I should have extra copies with
me during the show.

The articles in the issue will be:

The Remarkable Meteorite Fall on Lolland, Part 2, by Thomas Grau
Return to Buzzard Coulee, by Ralph Croning and Naomi Davis
A Star (Chaser) is Born, by Ruben Garcia
Discovery of a Meteorite Impact in Southeast Morocco by Abderrahmane Ibhi,
    Hassane Nachit, and El Hassan Abia
Holbrook-One More Little Adventure, by Fred Mason
The ASU Meteorite Collection, by Al Mitterling
Beginner's Luck, by Lisa Marie Morrison
The Rob Elliott Meteorite Auction, by Angus Self
Sharing the Enthusiasm, by Matt Smith
Star Slough and Pwdre Ser, by David Andrew White and Angel Nieves-Rivera

Now, down to business: We are already thinking about the May issue of
Meteorite. Our deadline is February 21, so if you are interested in
submitting an article, we need to have it by then.

Please let me know if you are planning on writing an article or wondering
if what you are thinking of writing would be of interest to us and our
readers. We can also talk about this at the Gem and Mineral Show, but that
is fairly close to the deadline!

We hope to hear from you soon.

Larry and Nancy Lebofsky



From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Tue Dec 15 21:20:55 2009
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 18:20:55 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] ScaleCubes.com
In-Reply-To: <52FFEC1217C5420AA820676631F1EBC6@JeffPC>
References: <52FFEC1217C5420AA820676631F1EBC6@JeffPC>
Message-ID: <4B284407.5080607@meteoritesusa.com>

I just wanted to say THANKS to JEFF!

I just received my cube today! What an awesome specimen! I like my 
number too... So cool! These things are heavy... ;)

For those of you who haven't yet acquired one you need to pick one up now.

The low numbers are going fast. Good thing I got mine!

Keep it up Jeff!

Regards,
Eric



Jeff Kuyken wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I recently decided to try something a little different and had some scale
> cubes made up. Not your usual cubes either as these are made from 
> Tungsten
> Carbide with a tolerance of around just 0.05mm or less making them 
> about the
> most precise cubes I know of. Anyhow, you can read all about it and the
> story behind them here:
>
> http://www.scalecubes.com/about.html
>
> Each cube has their own individual serial number on the bottom. The 
> list of
> available numbers is on the site and I intend to do the best I can with
> requests. But if it becomes too difficult with specific requests then 
> I will
> remove that option. In all likelyhood, once this initial offer has 
> been made
> to the Met List, I will likely remove the serial number option before
> posting them for sale elsewhere.
>
> If anyone has any questions please feel free to contact me off-list.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>



From lintonius at earthlink.net  Tue Dec 15 22:16:56 2009
From: lintonius at earthlink.net (Linton Rohr)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 19:16:56 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Huge Geminid captured
References: <9D537064-397E-4F9A-925C-AD191E706B1E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <062F38DA5B42405ABD4D4F4ACBAE78BD@D190TH71>

Great shot, Gary! Wally sure gets some good ones.
I've got a couple of his prints right here on my wall.
I spent a couple hours out in the lounge chair Sunday night,
and saw 25 or 30 nice, bright meteors.
None quite that nice, though!
Thanks for sharing.
Linton

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Gary Fujihara" <fujmon at mac.com>
To: "MeteorList" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 8:59 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Huge Geminid captured


> Aloha listees,
>
> I received an email from astro-friend Wally Pacholka, who is an 
> astrophotographer extraordinaire, and who visited us on Mauna Kea earlier 
> in the year for our Dark Sky Star Party <http://astroday.net/DSSP.html>. 
> In the email, Wally attached an incredible image of a Geminid fireball he 
> caught Sunday night during the peak.  It is perhaps one of the most 
> brilliant Geminids I have seen, both pictorially and in person.  Wally 
> says that the Geminid shower from where he was located was "terrific last 
> night - one of the best I have seen [except nov 2001 leonids]", and goes 
> on to mention that this photo may be the largest Geminid catch on record. 
> Have a look here:  http://astroday.net/Images/_Geminid-Pacholka.jpg
>
> By the way, Wally has a website, where many of his extraordinary 
> astrophotos are posted and available in prints for sale: 
> http://AstroPics.com
>
> Gary Fujihara
> Big Kahuna Meteorites (IMCA#1693)
> 105 Puhili Place, Hilo, Hawaii 96720
> (808) 640-9161
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 



From nakhladog at comcast.net  Wed Dec 16 00:27:28 2009
From: nakhladog at comcast.net (Rob Wesel)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 21:27:28 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Looking for the Following Specimens
Message-ID: <7CEFE50977CD42E194E7132BEED14220@windows9bb74fe>

Hello all

I am on the hunt for the following specimens for scientific research, the 
request is for samples as close to 1cm cubed as possible but they can be 
individuals, fragments, etc.

Park
Holbrook
Leedy
Bruderheim
Tenham
Portales Valley
Kernouve
St-Severin Estacado
Queens Mercy
Butsura

If you have any of these please get back to me with price.

Thanks and Happy Holidays,

Rob Wesel
www.nakhladogmeteorites.com
www.facebook.com/nakhladog
------------------
We are the music makers...
and we are the dreamers of the dreams.
Willy Wonka, 1971




From gracie at sheverb.com  Tue Dec 15 23:50:55 2009
From: gracie at sheverb.com (gracie)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 23:50:55 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fireball seen in Gainesville, FL
In-Reply-To: <062F38DA5B42405ABD4D4F4ACBAE78BD@D190TH71>
References: <9D537064-397E-4F9A-925C-AD191E706B1E@mac.com>
	<062F38DA5B42405ABD4D4F4ACBAE78BD@D190TH71>
Message-ID: <56323.70.171.14.161.1260939055.squirrel@www.sheverb.com>

Hi List,

I'm mostly a lurker, but just wanted to report that my husband just walked
in the door excitedly telling me he saw a large greenish fireball over our
house as he came up the driveway. I'm heading outside now so he can show
me exactly which direction it came from and how long it lasted.

Hopefully there will be further reports of this event! (So disappointed I
didn't see it!)

Gracie






From gracie at sheverb.com  Wed Dec 16 01:23:09 2009
From: gracie at sheverb.com (gracie)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 01:23:09 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fireball seen in Gainesville, FL
In-Reply-To: <56323.70.171.14.161.1260939055.squirrel@www.sheverb.com>
References: <9D537064-397E-4F9A-925C-AD191E706B1E@mac.com>
	<062F38DA5B42405ABD4D4F4ACBAE78BD@D190TH71>
	<56323.70.171.14.161.1260939055.squirrel@www.sheverb.com>
Message-ID: <57659.70.171.14.161.1260944589.squirrel@www.sheverb.com>

Quick update:

The fireball appeared below Aldebaran fairly low in the sky, and fell
straight down to the south/southwest. He said the light was so bright it
lit up the roof of our house and the surrounding area.

I'm really hoping for more reports tomorrow. Whee!


> Hi List,
>
> I'm mostly a lurker, but just wanted to report that my husband just walked
> in the door excitedly telling me he saw a large greenish fireball over our
> house as he came up the driveway. I'm heading outside now so he can show
> me exactly which direction it came from and how long it lasted.
>
> Hopefully there will be further reports of this event! (So disappointed I
> didn't see it!)
>
> Gracie
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>




From michael at rocksfromspace.org  Wed Dec 16 01:38:21 2009
From: michael at rocksfromspace.org (Michael Johnson)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 22:38:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December 16,
	2009
Message-ID: <284127925.818821260945501773.JavaMail.root@mbs1.homesteadmail.com>

http://www.rocksfromspace.org/December_16_2009.html



From mexicodoug at aim.com  Wed Dec 16 04:19:18 2009
From: mexicodoug at aim.com (Mexicodoug)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 04:19:18 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Ordinary chondrites - rarest to the most
 common classes
In-Reply-To: <846731.54222.qm@web114007.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <846731.54222.qm@web114007.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8CC4C47FAE1051B-1B34-2687@webmail-m067.sysops.aol.com>

Hi Melanie and thanks for the enthusiasm you add to the list ...

Here's a high to low sorting of the "ordinary chondrites", for over 
32,000 meteorites:

22.0% L6 ("most common")
19.9% H5
12.9% L5
12.3% H4
11.5% H6
7.8% LL5
4.2% LL6
3.3% L4
2.2% H3
2.0% L3
0.8% LL4
0.8% LL3
0.1% L7
0.1% LL7
0.03% H7 ("least common")

But this "common" and "rare" is a misleading label. That is a harder 
question if you look too closely at the deails and consider 
inhomogeneous and brecciated ordinary chondrites. That can all become 
somewhat unique if you ask the right person. Then there are the motley 
crew of ungrouped ordinary chondrites where it is hard to generalize. 
Some may be a weak classification while others might truly be weird 
("rare").

Just a few notes: the H7, L7, LL7 types are not widely used in the 
literature and border on impact melts, so I'd take them with a grain of 
salt unless someone goes postal on me in which case they are right in 
whatever they say. The way I listed these, the meteorites are counted 
by the lowest number and won't show up in the higher thermal 
(metamorphosed) levels. In other words, for example, an LL3.8-6 is 
counted with the LL3's.

If you have a special meteorite, it can sometimes be a "rarer" type if 
you start to split hairs, like H3.8 instead of just grouping it within 
the H3's, but there is some degree of arbitrariness to this. The 
tendency is that more virgin Solar system stuff (closer and closer 
3.00) is more special and like a holy grail ("rare" in a sense) to some 
who study that - since it is more representative of the original 
material before water and heat were added and did their thing. From hat 
we can try to get the proof we need to work out early formation 
processes and theorize on the related dynamics happening. By this 
logic, and considering it is a very studied meteorite, the precious 
meteorite SEMARKONA (LL3.00 or is it 3.01 :-)), a witnessed fall from 
India, is rather unique being the only one with that 3.00 
classification, which makes it super intact since formation and 
especially interesting to experts, and most notably Dr. Jeff Grossman 
who reviewed and updated its classification upon careful study.

By another measure, the "common" ordinary chondrite, L5, Canadian 
witnessed fall, VILNA, is one of those very few special meteorites that 
was imaged during atmospheric entry and a precise orbit was determined. 
It was not too far from Buzzard Coulee, and what makes it even more 
special is that it was classified from a (although witnesses heard 
pieces whizzing around) 94 milligram fragment with fusion crust. The 
only other specimen found was a 48 milligram piece! This becomes a wild 
anecdote of a meteorite tale when one considers that the bolide passed 
directly over the only camera recording the sky for 500 miles (over 800 
km) and headed for the newly constructed and world's only UFO landing 
site which had been built for the Canadian Centennial exposition in St. 
Paul, Alberta, where it showered sparks ("retro-rockets" to some 
folks). In case you wondered, I believe the Japanese classified on 
Antarctic meteorite with 10 milligrams, if you can believe that!

So what actually makes a meteorite rare can turn into a matter of 
semantics and who you ask. Even the scale of 3 to 6 (or 7) is somewhat 
arbitrary and just looks for convenient thermally changed cairns along 
the path toward melting. So if we went the other way, if H, L, and LL 
correspond to only three parent bodies, the frequency of the types 
follows:

H 45.0%
L 40.6%
LL 14.3%

Hope this helps a little with that general question!

Kind wishes,
Doug















-----Original Message-----
From: Melanie Matthews <miss_meteorite at yahoo.ca>
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Tue, Dec 15, 2009 7:01 am
Subject: [meteorite-list] Ordinary chondrites - rarest to the most 
common classes


G'mornin' listites,,
What is the least common type of ordinary chondrite, as well as the 
most common?



Thanks
-----------
Melanie
IMCA: 2975
eBay: metmel2775
Known on SkyRock Cafe as SpaceCollector09

Unclassified meteorites are like a box of chocolates... you never know 
what
you're gonna get!



__________________________________________________________________
Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr!

http://www.flickr.com/gift/

______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From jgrossman at usgs.gov  Wed Dec 16 05:33:01 2009
From: jgrossman at usgs.gov (Jeff Grossman)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 05:33:01 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Ordinary chondrites - rarest to the most
 common classes
In-Reply-To: <8CC4C47FAE1051B-1B34-2687@webmail-m067.sysops.aol.com>
References: <846731.54222.qm@web114007.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<8CC4C47FAE1051B-1B34-2687@webmail-m067.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <4B28B75D.2000406@usgs.gov>

I agree with Doug... the rarest and most valuable type of OC from a 
scientific perspective is petrologic type 3.00-3.01, from any of the 
chemical groups.  Only one is known... Semarkona.  If we take a more 
expansive definition of "ordinary chondrite" than most of my rather 
conservative colleagues are normally willing to accept, I would say that 
the rarest group of OCs is the R chondrites (only ~100 are known and 
many of those are paired).  In addition, a number of unique ungrouped 
meteorites are OC-like.  But again, I don't know of any colleagues who 
agree with me that R chondrites are in the OC class. [I would say that 
the OC class has two clans, the H-L-LL clan and the R clan].

Jeff

Mexicodoug wrote:
> Hi Melanie and thanks for the enthusiasm you add to the list ...
>
> Here's a high to low sorting of the "ordinary chondrites", for over 
> 32,000 meteorites:
>
> 22.0% L6 ("most common")
> 19.9% H5
> 12.9% L5
> 12.3% H4
> 11.5% H6
> 7.8% LL5
> 4.2% LL6
> 3.3% L4
> 2.2% H3
> 2.0% L3
> 0.8% LL4
> 0.8% LL3
> 0.1% L7
> 0.1% LL7
> 0.03% H7 ("least common")
>
> But this "common" and "rare" is a misleading label. That is a harder 
> question if you look too closely at the deails and consider 
> inhomogeneous and brecciated ordinary chondrites. That can all become 
> somewhat unique if you ask the right person. Then there are the motley 
> crew of ungrouped ordinary chondrites where it is hard to generalize. 
> Some may be a weak classification while others might truly be weird 
> ("rare").
>
> Just a few notes: the H7, L7, LL7 types are not widely used in the 
> literature and border on impact melts, so I'd take them with a grain 
> of salt unless someone goes postal on me in which case they are right 
> in whatever they say. The way I listed these, the meteorites are 
> counted by the lowest number and won't show up in the higher thermal 
> (metamorphosed) levels. In other words, for example, an LL3.8-6 is 
> counted with the LL3's.
>
> If you have a special meteorite, it can sometimes be a "rarer" type if 
> you start to split hairs, like H3.8 instead of just grouping it within 
> the H3's, but there is some degree of arbitrariness to this. The 
> tendency is that more virgin Solar system stuff (closer and closer 
> 3.00) is more special and like a holy grail ("rare" in a sense) to 
> some who study that - since it is more representative of the original 
> material before water and heat were added and did their thing. From 
> hat we can try to get the proof we need to work out early formation 
> processes and theorize on the related dynamics happening. By this 
> logic, and considering it is a very studied meteorite, the precious 
> meteorite SEMARKONA (LL3.00 or is it 3.01 :-)), a witnessed fall from 
> India, is rather unique being the only one with that 3.00 
> classification, which makes it super intact since formation and 
> especially interesting to experts, and most notably Dr. Jeff Grossman 
> who reviewed and updated its classification upon careful study.
>
> By another measure, the "common" ordinary chondrite, L5, Canadian 
> witnessed fall, VILNA, is one of those very few special meteorites 
> that was imaged during atmospheric entry and a precise orbit was 
> determined. It was not too far from Buzzard Coulee, and what makes it 
> even more special is that it was classified from a (although witnesses 
> heard pieces whizzing around) 94 milligram fragment with fusion crust. 
> The only other specimen found was a 48 milligram piece! This becomes a 
> wild anecdote of a meteorite tale when one considers that the bolide 
> passed directly over the only camera recording the sky for 500 miles 
> (over 800 km) and headed for the newly constructed and world's only 
> UFO landing site which had been built for the Canadian Centennial 
> exposition in St. Paul, Alberta, where it showered sparks 
> ("retro-rockets" to some folks). In case you wondered, I believe the 
> Japanese classified on Antarctic meteorite with 10 milligrams, if you 
> can believe that!
>
> So what actually makes a meteorite rare can turn into a matter of 
> semantics and who you ask. Even the scale of 3 to 6 (or 7) is somewhat 
> arbitrary and just looks for convenient thermally changed cairns along 
> the path toward melting. So if we went the other way, if H, L, and LL 
> correspond to only three parent bodies, the frequency of the types 
> follows:
>
> H 45.0%
> L 40.6%
> LL 14.3%
>
> Hope this helps a little with that general question!
>
> Kind wishes,
> Doug
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Melanie Matthews <miss_meteorite at yahoo.ca>
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Sent: Tue, Dec 15, 2009 7:01 am
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Ordinary chondrites - rarest to the most 
> common classes
>
>
> G'mornin' listites,,
> What is the least common type of ordinary chondrite, as well as the 
> most common?
>
>
>
> Thanks
> -----------
> Melanie
> IMCA: 2975
> eBay: metmel2775
> Known on SkyRock Cafe as SpaceCollector09
>
> Unclassified meteorites are like a box of chocolates... you never know 
> what
> you're gonna get!
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________________________
> Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr!
>
> http://www.flickr.com/gift/
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


-- 
Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman       phone: (703) 648-6184
US Geological Survey          fax:   (703) 648-6383
954 National Center
Reston, VA 20192, USA




From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com  Wed Dec 16 09:12:43 2009
From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 06:12:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] one more sale piece (ad)
Message-ID: <250567.35139.qm@web57801.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Hi again list.I am really sorry for this,but I absolutely forgot to list this piece forsale.It is a 164 gram full slice of FAUCETT,MISSOURI.This was one of the first 10 meteorites I ever bought from bob haag when I started collecting meteorites.One side is polished,the other side is not.It has crust running? on top of the slice.Pics in the evening if interested.I want $500 or a reasonable best offer.Please off list and this is my last sale of any kind till next year.
?Steve R. Arnold, Chicago!! 


From news at chladnis-heirs.com  Wed Dec 16 09:27:36 2009
From: news at chladnis-heirs.com (Chladnis Heirs)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 15:27:36 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] Ordinary chondrites - rarest to the most
	common classes
In-Reply-To: <4B28B75D.2000406@usgs.gov>
References: <846731.54222.qm@web114007.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><8CC4C47FAE1051B-1B34-2687@webmail-m067.sysops.aol.com>
	<4B28B75D.2000406@usgs.gov>
Message-ID: <004601ca7e5b$ea29eba0$07b22959@name86d88d87e2>

Indeed,

it's for the first time, that I read that R-chondrites are included in the
OC-group. If so, why exactly them and not the K-chondrites, the Carbonaceous
from grade 3-6, the ungrouped and the enstatite chondrites too?
 
>valuable type of OC from a 
>scientific perspective is petrologic type 3.00-3.01

Where one has to say, that it's maybe too early to say that,
Because the classification with decimal places, (even with two!), is a
relatively new occurrence - most classifiers seems still to prefer to use a
simple "3" - so that in case, there are still a lot known type-3ers awaiting
to be revisited regarding the degree of their (un)equilibration.

But I agree - "Ordinary" is a somewhat misleading term,
- as the ordinary chondrites have told us most about the origin and
formation of the solar system, the planets and ourselves, more than any iron
or any lunar rock!

Keep that always in mind, if you are tempted, now in the end of the
desert-era and the decreed end of meteorite finding in so many countries,
with all their weird and fancy exotic types, to wrinkle your nose about the
"ugly" ordinary 25$-a-kilo-chunk from NWA-wonderland!
Rare as brilliants they are - and they were our beginnings!

Happy holidays to all!
Martin


-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Jeff
Grossman
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 16. Dezember 2009 11:33
An: Meteorite-list
Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Ordinary chondrites - rarest to the most
common classes

I agree with Doug... the rarest and most valuable type of OC from a 
scientific perspective is petrologic type 3.00-3.01, from any of the 
chemical groups.  Only one is known... Semarkona.  If we take a more 
expansive definition of "ordinary chondrite" than most of my rather 
conservative colleagues are normally willing to accept, I would say that 
the rarest group of OCs is the R chondrites (only ~100 are known and 
many of those are paired).  In addition, a number of unique ungrouped 
meteorites are OC-like.  But again, I don't know of any colleagues who 
agree with me that R chondrites are in the OC class. [I would say that 
the OC class has two clans, the H-L-LL clan and the R clan].

Jeff

Mexicodoug wrote:
> Hi Melanie and thanks for the enthusiasm you add to the list ...
>
> Here's a high to low sorting of the "ordinary chondrites", for over 
> 32,000 meteorites:
>
> 22.0% L6 ("most common")
> 19.9% H5
> 12.9% L5
> 12.3% H4
> 11.5% H6
> 7.8% LL5
> 4.2% LL6
> 3.3% L4
> 2.2% H3
> 2.0% L3
> 0.8% LL4
> 0.8% LL3
> 0.1% L7
> 0.1% LL7
> 0.03% H7 ("least common")
>
> But this "common" and "rare" is a misleading label. That is a harder 
> question if you look too closely at the deails and consider 
> inhomogeneous and brecciated ordinary chondrites. That can all become 
> somewhat unique if you ask the right person. Then there are the motley 
> crew of ungrouped ordinary chondrites where it is hard to generalize. 
> Some may be a weak classification while others might truly be weird 
> ("rare").
>
> Just a few notes: the H7, L7, LL7 types are not widely used in the 
> literature and border on impact melts, so I'd take them with a grain 
> of salt unless someone goes postal on me in which case they are right 
> in whatever they say. The way I listed these, the meteorites are 
> counted by the lowest number and won't show up in the higher thermal 
> (metamorphosed) levels. In other words, for example, an LL3.8-6 is 
> counted with the LL3's.
>
> If you have a special meteorite, it can sometimes be a "rarer" type if 
> you start to split hairs, like H3.8 instead of just grouping it within 
> the H3's, but there is some degree of arbitrariness to this. The 
> tendency is that more virgin Solar system stuff (closer and closer 
> 3.00) is more special and like a holy grail ("rare" in a sense) to 
> some who study that - since it is more representative of the original 
> material before water and heat were added and did their thing. From 
> hat we can try to get the proof we need to work out early formation 
> processes and theorize on the related dynamics happening. By this 
> logic, and considering it is a very studied meteorite, the precious 
> meteorite SEMARKONA (LL3.00 or is it 3.01 :-)), a witnessed fall from 
> India, is rather unique being the only one with that 3.00 
> classification, which makes it super intact since formation and 
> especially interesting to experts, and most notably Dr. Jeff Grossman 
> who reviewed and updated its classification upon careful study.
>
> By another measure, the "common" ordinary chondrite, L5, Canadian 
> witnessed fall, VILNA, is one of those very few special meteorites 
> that was imaged during atmospheric entry and a precise orbit was 
> determined. It was not too far from Buzzard Coulee, and what makes it 
> even more special is that it was classified from a (although witnesses 
> heard pieces whizzing around) 94 milligram fragment with fusion crust. 
> The only other specimen found was a 48 milligram piece! This becomes a 
> wild anecdote of a meteorite tale when one considers that the bolide 
> passed directly over the only camera recording the sky for 500 miles 
> (over 800 km) and headed for the newly constructed and world's only 
> UFO landing site which had been built for the Canadian Centennial 
> exposition in St. Paul, Alberta, where it showered sparks 
> ("retro-rockets" to some folks). In case you wondered, I believe the 
> Japanese classified on Antarctic meteorite with 10 milligrams, if you 
> can believe that!
>
> So what actually makes a meteorite rare can turn into a matter of 
> semantics and who you ask. Even the scale of 3 to 6 (or 7) is somewhat 
> arbitrary and just looks for convenient thermally changed cairns along 
> the path toward melting. So if we went the other way, if H, L, and LL 
> correspond to only three parent bodies, the frequency of the types 
> follows:
>
> H 45.0%
> L 40.6%
> LL 14.3%
>
> Hope this helps a little with that general question!
>
> Kind wishes,
> Doug
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Melanie Matthews <miss_meteorite at yahoo.ca>
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Sent: Tue, Dec 15, 2009 7:01 am
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Ordinary chondrites - rarest to the most 
> common classes
>
>
> G'mornin' listites,,
> What is the least common type of ordinary chondrite, as well as the 
> most common?
>
>
>
> Thanks
> -----------
> Melanie
> IMCA: 2975
> eBay: metmel2775
> Known on SkyRock Cafe as SpaceCollector09
>
> Unclassified meteorites are like a box of chocolates... you never know 
> what
> you're gonna get!
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________________________
> Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr!
>
> http://www.flickr.com/gift/
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


-- 
Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman       phone: (703) 648-6184
US Geological Survey          fax:   (703) 648-6383
954 National Center
Reston, VA 20192, USA


______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From mail at mhmeteorites.com  Wed Dec 16 09:38:51 2009
From: mail at mhmeteorites.com (mail at mhmeteorites.com)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 06:38:51 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD-Ebay goodies
Message-ID: <20091216063851.1gfmsxppokg0cwg0@webmail.mhmeteorites.com>

Hi List:
Tomorrow I have my Ebay auctions ending, including a piece of  
Ensisheim from the Boubee>Carion Collection that is priced waaaay  
below retail. Also have a look at the Tenham slice that has a  
chondrule offset by a shock vein.

<http://shop.ebay.com/mhmeteorites/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p4340>

Matt Morgan
Mile High Meteorites


From jgrossman at usgs.gov  Wed Dec 16 10:26:00 2009
From: jgrossman at usgs.gov (Jeff Grossman)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 10:26:00 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Ordinary chondrites - rarest to the most
 common classes
In-Reply-To: <004601ca7e5b$ea29eba0$07b22959@name86d88d87e2>
References: <846731.54222.qm@web114007.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<8CC4C47FAE1051B-1B34-2687@webmail-m067.sysops.aol.com>
	<4B28B75D.2000406@usgs.gov>
	<004601ca7e5b$ea29eba0$07b22959@name86d88d87e2>
Message-ID: <OFD810B48C.266EF23D-ON0525768E.0054D395@usgs.gov>

At 09:27 AM 12/16/2009, Chladnis Heirs wrote:
>Indeed,
>
>it's for the first time, that I read that R-chondrites are included in the
>OC-group. If so, why exactly them and not the K-chondrites, the Carbonaceous
>from grade 3-6, the ungrouped and the enstatite chondrites too?

I didn't say they ARE included in the OCs... I 
said that I thought they should be. As far as I 
know, I am alone in this opinion.  There are only 
two Kakangari-like chondrites, and I am not 
prepared to put them anywhere.  I'm not sure what 
the rest of the question means, but many 
ungrouped chondrites can be and are associated 
with a major class, as in "ungrouped carbonaceous chondrite".

jeff


>
> >valuable type of OC from a
> >scientific perspective is petrologic type 3.00-3.01
>
>Where one has to say, that it's maybe too early to say that,
>Because the classification with decimal places, (even with two!), is a
>relatively new occurrence - most classifiers seems still to prefer to use a
>simple "3" - so that in case, there are still a lot known type-3ers awaiting
>to be revisited regarding the degree of their (un)equilibration.
>
>But I agree - "Ordinary" is a somewhat misleading term,
>- as the ordinary chondrites have told us most about the origin and
>formation of the solar system, the planets and ourselves, more than any iron
>or any lunar rock!
>
>Keep that always in mind, if you are tempted, now in the end of the
>desert-era and the decreed end of meteorite finding in so many countries,
>with all their weird and fancy exotic types, to wrinkle your nose about the
>"ugly" ordinary 25$-a-kilo-chunk from NWA-wonderland!
>Rare as brilliants they are - and they were our beginnings!
>
>Happy holidays to all!
>Martin
>
>
>-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
>Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
>[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Jeff
>Grossman
>Gesendet: Mittwoch, 16. Dezember 2009 11:33
>An: Meteorite-list
>Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Ordinary chondrites - rarest to the most
>common classes
>
>I agree with Doug... the rarest and most valuable type of OC from a
>scientific perspective is petrologic type 3.00-3.01, from any of the
>chemical groups.  Only one is known... Semarkona.  If we take a more
>expansive definition of "ordinary chondrite" than most of my rather
>conservative colleagues are normally willing to accept, I would say that
>the rarest group of OCs is the R chondrites (only ~100 are known and
>many of those are paired).  In addition, a number of unique ungrouped
>meteorites are OC-like.  But again, I don't know of any colleagues who
>agree with me that R chondrites are in the OC class. [I would say that
>the OC class has two clans, the H-L-LL clan and the R clan].
>
>Jeff
>
>Mexicodoug wrote:
> > Hi Melanie and thanks for the enthusiasm you add to the list ...
> >
> > Here's a high to low sorting of the "ordinary chondrites", for over
> > 32,000 meteorites:
> >
> > 22.0% L6 ("most common")
> > 19.9% H5
> > 12.9% L5
> > 12.3% H4
> > 11.5% H6
> > 7.8% LL5
> > 4.2% LL6
> > 3.3% L4
> > 2.2% H3
> > 2.0% L3
> > 0.8% LL4
> > 0.8% LL3
> > 0.1% L7
> > 0.1% LL7
> > 0.03% H7 ("least common")
> >
> > But this "common" and "rare" is a misleading label. That is a harder
> > question if you look too closely at the deails and consider
> > inhomogeneous and brecciated ordinary chondrites. That can all become
> > somewhat unique if you ask the right person. Then there are the motley
> > crew of ungrouped ordinary chondrites where it is hard to generalize.
> > Some may be a weak classification while others might truly be weird
> > ("rare").
> >
> > Just a few notes: the H7, L7, LL7 types are not widely used in the
> > literature and border on impact melts, so I'd take them with a grain
> > of salt unless someone goes postal on me in which case they are right
> > in whatever they say. The way I listed these, the meteorites are
> > counted by the lowest number and won't show up in the higher thermal
> > (metamorphosed) levels. In other words, for example, an LL3.8-6 is
> > counted with the LL3's.
> >
> > If you have a special meteorite, it can sometimes be a "rarer" type if
> > you start to split hairs, like H3.8 instead of just grouping it within
> > the H3's, but there is some degree of arbitrariness to this. The
> > tendency is that more virgin Solar system stuff (closer and closer
> > 3.00) is more special and like a holy grail ("rare" in a sense) to
> > some who study that - since it is more representative of the original
> > material before water and heat were added and did their thing. From
> > hat we can try to get the proof we need to work out early formation
> > processes and theorize on the related dynamics happening. By this
> > logic, and considering it is a very studied meteorite, the precious
> > meteorite SEMARKONA (LL3.00 or is it 3.01 :-)), a witnessed fall from
> > India, is rather unique being the only one with that 3.00
> > classification, which makes it super intact since formation and
> > especially interesting to experts, and most notably Dr. Jeff Grossman
> > who reviewed and updated its classification upon careful study.
> >
> > By another measure, the "common" ordinary chondrite, L5, Canadian
> > witnessed fall, VILNA, is one of those very few special meteorites
> > that was imaged during atmospheric entry and a precise orbit was
> > determined. It was not too far from Buzzard Coulee, and what makes it
> > even more special is that it was classified from a (although witnesses
> > heard pieces whizzing around) 94 milligram fragment with fusion crust.
> > The only other specimen found was a 48 milligram piece! This becomes a
> > wild anecdote of a meteorite tale when one considers that the bolide
> > passed directly over the only camera recording the sky for 500 miles
> > (over 800 km) and headed for the newly constructed and world's only
> > UFO landing site which had been built for the Canadian Centennial
> > exposition in St. Paul, Alberta, where it showered sparks
> > ("retro-rockets" to some folks). In case you wondered, I believe the
> > Japanese classified on Antarctic meteorite with 10 milligrams, if you
> > can believe that!
> >
> > So what actually makes a meteorite rare can turn into a matter of
> > semantics and who you ask. Even the scale of 3 to 6 (or 7) is somewhat
> > arbitrary and just looks for convenient thermally changed cairns along
> > the path toward melting. So if we went the other way, if H, L, and LL
> > correspond to only three parent bodies, the frequency of the types
> > follows:
> >
> > H 45.0%
> > L 40.6%
> > LL 14.3%
> >
> > Hope this helps a little with that general question!
> >
> > Kind wishes,
> > Doug
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Melanie Matthews <miss_meteorite at yahoo.ca>
> > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > Sent: Tue, Dec 15, 2009 7:01 am
> > Subject: [meteorite-list] Ordinary chondrites - rarest to the most
> > common classes
> >
> >
> > G'mornin' listites,,
> > What is the least common type of ordinary chondrite, as well as the
> > most common?
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks
> > -----------
> > Melanie
> > IMCA: 2975
> > eBay: metmel2775
> > Known on SkyRock Cafe as SpaceCollector09
> >
> > Unclassified meteorites are like a box of chocolates... you never know
> > what
> > you're gonna get!
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________________________
> > Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr!
> >
> > http://www.flickr.com/gift/
> >
> > ______________________________________________
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >
> > ______________________________________________
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >
>
>
>--
>Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman       phone: (703) 648-6184
>US Geological Survey          fax:   (703) 648-6383
>954 National Center
>Reston, VA 20192, USA
>
>
>______________________________________________
>http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>Meteorite-list mailing list
>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>______________________________________________
>http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>Meteorite-list mailing list
>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman       phone: (703) 648-6184
US Geological Survey          fax:   (703) 648-6383
954 National Center
Reston, VA 20192, USA




From darryl at dof3.com  Wed Dec 16 10:35:38 2009
From: darryl at dof3.com (Darryl Pitt)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 10:35:38 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Ordinary chondrites - rarest to the most
	common classes
In-Reply-To: <OFD810B48C.266EF23D-ON0525768E.0054D395@usgs.gov>
References: <846731.54222.qm@web114007.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<8CC4C47FAE1051B-1B34-2687@webmail-m067.sysops.aol.com>
	<4B28B75D.2000406@usgs.gov>
	<004601ca7e5b$ea29eba0$07b22959@name86d88d87e2>
	<OFD810B48C.266EF23D-ON0525768E.0054D395@usgs.gov>
Message-ID: <387D6E36-A1A6-44BF-9824-C3C54810E62E@dof3.com>



Get ready for NWA 5717.....

Initially "anomalous," the classification had to be changed to  
"ungrouped" as it was too difficult to determine what it was anomalous  
to.  3.05 subtype.  More to follow....





On Dec 16, 2009, at 10:26 AM, Jeff Grossman wrote:

> At 09:27 AM 12/16/2009, Chladnis Heirs wrote:
>> Indeed,
>>
>> it's for the first time, that I read that R-chondrites are included  
>> in the
>> OC-group. If so, why exactly them and not the K-chondrites, the  
>> Carbonaceous
>> from grade 3-6, the ungrouped and the enstatite chondrites too?
>
> I didn't say they ARE included in the OCs... I said that I thought  
> they should be. As far as I know, I am alone in this opinion.  There  
> are only two Kakangari-like chondrites, and I am not prepared to put  
> them anywhere.  I'm not sure what the rest of the question means,  
> but many ungrouped chondrites can be and are associated with a major  
> class, as in "ungrouped carbonaceous chondrite".
>
> jeff
>
>
>>
>> >valuable type of OC from a
>> >scientific perspective is petrologic type 3.00-3.01
>>
>> Where one has to say, that it's maybe too early to say that,
>> Because the classification with decimal places, (even with two!),  
>> is a
>> relatively new occurrence - most classifiers seems still to prefer  
>> to use a
>> simple "3" - so that in case, there are still a lot known type-3ers  
>> awaiting
>> to be revisited regarding the degree of their (un)equilibration.
>>
>> But I agree - "Ordinary" is a somewhat misleading term,
>> - as the ordinary chondrites have told us most about the origin and
>> formation of the solar system, the planets and ourselves, more than  
>> any iron
>> or any lunar rock!
>>
>> Keep that always in mind, if you are tempted, now in the end of the
>> desert-era and the decreed end of meteorite finding in so many  
>> countries,
>> with all their weird and fancy exotic types, to wrinkle your nose  
>> about the
>> "ugly" ordinary 25$-a-kilo-chunk from NWA-wonderland!
>> Rare as brilliants they are - and they were our beginnings!
>>
>> Happy holidays to all!
>> Martin
>>
>>
>> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
>> Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
>> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von  
>> Jeff
>> Grossman
>> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 16. Dezember 2009 11:33
>> An: Meteorite-list
>> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Ordinary chondrites - rarest to the  
>> most
>> common classes
>>
>> I agree with Doug... the rarest and most valuable type of OC from a
>> scientific perspective is petrologic type 3.00-3.01, from any of the
>> chemical groups.  Only one is known... Semarkona.  If we take a more
>> expansive definition of "ordinary chondrite" than most of my rather
>> conservative colleagues are normally willing to accept, I would say  
>> that
>> the rarest group of OCs is the R chondrites (only ~100 are known and
>> many of those are paired).  In addition, a number of unique ungrouped
>> meteorites are OC-like.  But again, I don't know of any colleagues  
>> who
>> agree with me that R chondrites are in the OC class. [I would say  
>> that
>> the OC class has two clans, the H-L-LL clan and the R clan].
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>> Mexicodoug wrote:
>> > Hi Melanie and thanks for the enthusiasm you add to the list ...
>> >
>> > Here's a high to low sorting of the "ordinary chondrites", for over
>> > 32,000 meteorites:
>> >
>> > 22.0% L6 ("most common")
>> > 19.9% H5
>> > 12.9% L5
>> > 12.3% H4
>> > 11.5% H6
>> > 7.8% LL5
>> > 4.2% LL6
>> > 3.3% L4
>> > 2.2% H3
>> > 2.0% L3
>> > 0.8% LL4
>> > 0.8% LL3
>> > 0.1% L7
>> > 0.1% LL7
>> > 0.03% H7 ("least common")
>> >
>> > But this "common" and "rare" is a misleading label. That is a  
>> harder
>> > question if you look too closely at the deails and consider
>> > inhomogeneous and brecciated ordinary chondrites. That can all  
>> become
>> > somewhat unique if you ask the right person. Then there are the  
>> motley
>> > crew of ungrouped ordinary chondrites where it is hard to  
>> generalize.
>> > Some may be a weak classification while others might truly be weird
>> > ("rare").
>> >
>> > Just a few notes: the H7, L7, LL7 types are not widely used in the
>> > literature and border on impact melts, so I'd take them with a  
>> grain
>> > of salt unless someone goes postal on me in which case they are  
>> right
>> > in whatever they say. The way I listed these, the meteorites are
>> > counted by the lowest number and won't show up in the higher  
>> thermal
>> > (metamorphosed) levels. In other words, for example, an LL3.8-6 is
>> > counted with the LL3's.
>> >
>> > If you have a special meteorite, it can sometimes be a "rarer"  
>> type if
>> > you start to split hairs, like H3.8 instead of just grouping it  
>> within
>> > the H3's, but there is some degree of arbitrariness to this. The
>> > tendency is that more virgin Solar system stuff (closer and closer
>> > 3.00) is more special and like a holy grail ("rare" in a sense) to
>> > some who study that - since it is more representative of the  
>> original
>> > material before water and heat were added and did their thing. From
>> > hat we can try to get the proof we need to work out early formation
>> > processes and theorize on the related dynamics happening. By this
>> > logic, and considering it is a very studied meteorite, the precious
>> > meteorite SEMARKONA (LL3.00 or is it 3.01 :-)), a witnessed fall  
>> from
>> > India, is rather unique being the only one with that 3.00
>> > classification, which makes it super intact since formation and
>> > especially interesting to experts, and most notably Dr. Jeff  
>> Grossman
>> > who reviewed and updated its classification upon careful study.
>> >
>> > By another measure, the "common" ordinary chondrite, L5, Canadian
>> > witnessed fall, VILNA, is one of those very few special meteorites
>> > that was imaged during atmospheric entry and a precise orbit was
>> > determined. It was not too far from Buzzard Coulee, and what  
>> makes it
>> > even more special is that it was classified from a (although  
>> witnesses
>> > heard pieces whizzing around) 94 milligram fragment with fusion  
>> crust.
>> > The only other specimen found was a 48 milligram piece! This  
>> becomes a
>> > wild anecdote of a meteorite tale when one considers that the  
>> bolide
>> > passed directly over the only camera recording the sky for 500  
>> miles
>> > (over 800 km) and headed for the newly constructed and world's only
>> > UFO landing site which had been built for the Canadian Centennial
>> > exposition in St. Paul, Alberta, where it showered sparks
>> > ("retro-rockets" to some folks). In case you wondered, I believe  
>> the
>> > Japanese classified on Antarctic meteorite with 10 milligrams, if  
>> you
>> > can believe that!
>> >
>> > So what actually makes a meteorite rare can turn into a matter of
>> > semantics and who you ask. Even the scale of 3 to 6 (or 7) is  
>> somewhat
>> > arbitrary and just looks for convenient thermally changed cairns  
>> along
>> > the path toward melting. So if we went the other way, if H, L,  
>> and LL
>> > correspond to only three parent bodies, the frequency of the types
>> > follows:
>> >
>> > H 45.0%
>> > L 40.6%
>> > LL 14.3%
>> >
>> > Hope this helps a little with that general question!
>> >
>> > Kind wishes,
>> > Doug
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Melanie Matthews <miss_meteorite at yahoo.ca>
>> > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> > Sent: Tue, Dec 15, 2009 7:01 am
>> > Subject: [meteorite-list] Ordinary chondrites - rarest to the most
>> > common classes
>> >
>> >
>> > G'mornin' listites,,
>> > What is the least common type of ordinary chondrite, as well as the
>> > most common?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Thanks
>> > -----------
>> > Melanie
>> > IMCA: 2975
>> > eBay: metmel2775
>> > Known on SkyRock Cafe as SpaceCollector09
>> >
>> > Unclassified meteorites are like a box of chocolates... you never  
>> know
>> > what
>> > you're gonna get!
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > __________________________________________________________________
>> > Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr!
>> >
>> > http://www.flickr.com/gift/
>> >
>> > ______________________________________________
>> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> > Meteorite-list mailing list
>> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> >
>> > ______________________________________________
>> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> > Meteorite-list mailing list
>> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman       phone: (703) 648-6184
>> US Geological Survey          fax:   (703) 648-6383
>> 954 National Center
>> Reston, VA 20192, USA
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman       phone: (703) 648-6184
> US Geological Survey          fax:   (703) 648-6383
> 954 National Center
> Reston, VA 20192, USA
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From mail at mhmeteorites.com  Wed Dec 16 11:04:07 2009
From: mail at mhmeteorites.com (Matt Morgan)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 16:04:07 +0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] Ordinary chondrites - decimal metamorphic
	grade question
In-Reply-To: <387D6E36-A1A6-44BF-9824-C3C54810E62E@dof3.com>
References: <846731.54222.qm@web114007.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><8CC4C47FAE1051B-1B34-2687@webmail-m067.sysops.aol.com><4B28B75D.2000406@usgs.gov><004601ca7e5b$ea29eba0$07b22959@name86d88d87e2><OFD810B48C.266EF23D-ON0525768E.0054D395@usgs.gov><387D6E36-A1A6-44BF-9824-C3C54810E62E@dof3.com>
Message-ID: <1007140231-1260979442-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-413127853-@bda667.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

Since Darryl brought up his incredible LL3.05, I have to ask how does/can one classify the metamorphic grade to the to the tenths or now the hundredths of a decimal? I have had some tell me this is subjective and others say you need specialized equipment. Please, any researchers, explain.

Darryl-
I don't mean to pick on your material, but it is a question that has been nagging me for sometime and you stirred my brain!

Thanks in advance!
Matt
----------------------
Matt Morgan
Mile High Meteorites
http://www.mhmeteorites.com
P.O. Box 151293
Lakewood, CO 80215 USA

-----Original Message-----
From: Darryl Pitt <darryl at dof3.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 10:35:38 
To: Jeff Grossman<jgrossman at usgs.gov>
Cc: <Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ordinary chondrites - rarest to the most
	common classes



Get ready for NWA 5717.....

Initially "anomalous," the classification had to be changed to  
"ungrouped" as it was too difficult to determine what it was anomalous  
to.  3.05 subtype.  More to follow....





On Dec 16, 2009, at 10:26 AM, Jeff Grossman wrote:

> At 09:27 AM 12/16/2009, Chladnis Heirs wrote:
>> Indeed,
>>
>> it's for the first time, that I read that R-chondrites are included  
>> in the
>> OC-group. If so, why exactly them and not the K-chondrites, the  
>> Carbonaceous
>> from grade 3-6, the ungrouped and the enstatite chondrites too?
>
> I didn't say they ARE included in the OCs... I said that I thought  
> they should be. As far as I know, I am alone in this opinion.  There  
> are only two Kakangari-like chondrites, and I am not prepared to put  
> them anywhere.  I'm not sure what the rest of the question means,  
> but many ungrouped chondrites can be and are associated with a major  
> class, as in "ungrouped carbonaceous chondrite".
>
> jeff
>
>
>>
>> >valuable type of OC from a
>> >scientific perspective is petrologic type 3.00-3.01
>>
>> Where one has to say, that it's maybe too early to say that,
>> Because the classification with decimal places, (even with two!),  
>> is a
>> relatively new occurrence - most classifiers seems still to prefer  
>> to use a
>> simple "3" - so that in case, there are still a lot known type-3ers  
>> awaiting
>> to be revisited regarding the degree of their (un)equilibration.
>>
>> But I agree - "Ordinary" is a somewhat misleading term,
>> - as the ordinary chondrites have told us most about the origin and
>> formation of the solar system, the planets and ourselves, more than  
>> any iron
>> or any lunar rock!
>>
>> Keep that always in mind, if you are tempted, now in the end of the
>> desert-era and the decreed end of meteorite finding in so many  
>> countries,
>> with all their weird and fancy exotic types, to wrinkle your nose  
>> about the
>> "ugly" ordinary 25$-a-kilo-chunk from NWA-wonderland!
>> Rare as brilliants they are - and they were our beginnings!
>>
>> Happy holidays to all!
>> Martin
>>
>>
>> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
>> Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
>> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von  
>> Jeff
>> Grossman
>> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 16. Dezember 2009 11:33
>> An: Meteorite-list
>> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Ordinary chondrites - rarest to the  
>> most
>> common classes
>>
>> I agree with Doug... the rarest and most valuable type of OC from a
>> scientific perspective is petrologic type 3.00-3.01, from any of the
>> chemical groups.  Only one is known... Semarkona.  If we take a more
>> expansive definition of "ordinary chondrite" than most of my rather
>> conservative colleagues are normally willing to accept, I would say  
>> that
>> the rarest group of OCs is the R chondrites (only ~100 are known and
>> many of those are paired).  In addition, a number of unique ungrouped
>> meteorites are OC-like.  But again, I don't know of any colleagues  
>> who
>> agree with me that R chondrites are in the OC class. [I would say  
>> that
>> the OC class has two clans, the H-L-LL clan and the R clan].
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>> Mexicodoug wrote:
>> > Hi Melanie and thanks for the enthusiasm you add to the list ...
>> >
>> > Here's a high to low sorting of the "ordinary chondrites", for over
>> > 32,000 meteorites:
>> >
>> > 22.0% L6 ("most common")
>> > 19.9% H5
>> > 12.9% L5
>> > 12.3% H4
>> > 11.5% H6
>> > 7.8% LL5
>> > 4.2% LL6
>> > 3.3% L4
>> > 2.2% H3
>> > 2.0% L3
>> > 0.8% LL4
>> > 0.8% LL3
>> > 0.1% L7
>> > 0.1% LL7
>> > 0.03% H7 ("least common")
>> >
>> > But this "common" and "rare" is a misleading label. That is a  
>> harder
>> > question if you look too closely at the deails and consider
>> > inhomogeneous and brecciated ordinary chondrites. That can all  
>> become
>> > somewhat unique if you ask the right person. Then there are the  
>> motley
>> > crew of ungrouped ordinary chondrites where it is hard to  
>> generalize.
>> > Some may be a weak classification while others might truly be weird
>> > ("rare").
>> >
>> > Just a few notes: the H7, L7, LL7 types are not widely used in the
>> > literature and border on impact melts, so I'd take them with a  
>> grain
>> > of salt unless someone goes postal on me in which case they are  
>> right
>> > in whatever they say. The way I listed these, the meteorites are
>> > counted by the lowest number and won't show up in the higher  
>> thermal
>> > (metamorphosed) levels. In other words, for example, an LL3.8-6 is
>> > counted with the LL3's.
>> >
>> > If you have a special meteorite, it can sometimes be a "rarer"  
>> type if
>> > you start to split hairs, like H3.8 instead of just grouping it  
>> within
>> > the H3's, but there is some degree of arbitrariness to this. The
>> > tendency is that more virgin Solar system stuff (closer and closer
>> > 3.00) is more special and like a holy grail ("rare" in a sense) to
>> > some who study that - since it is more representative of the  
>> original
>> > material before water and heat were added and did their thing. From
>> > hat we can try to get the proof we need to work out early formation
>> > processes and theorize on the related dynamics happening. By this
>> > logic, and considering it is a very studied meteorite, the precious
>> > meteorite SEMARKONA (LL3.00 or is it 3.01 :-)), a witnessed fall  
>> from
>> > India, is rather unique being the only one with that 3.00
>> > classification, which makes it super intact since formation and
>> > especially interesting to experts, and most notably Dr. Jeff  
>> Grossman
>> > who reviewed and updated its classification upon careful study.
>> >
>> > By another measure, the "common" ordinary chondrite, L5, Canadian
>> > witnessed fall, VILNA, is one of those very few special meteorites
>> > that was imaged during atmospheric entry and a precise orbit was
>> > determined. It was not too far from Buzzard Coulee, and what  
>> makes it
>> > even more special is that it was classified from a (although  
>> witnesses
>> > heard pieces whizzing around) 94 milligram fragment with fusion  
>> crust.
>> > The only other specimen found was a 48 milligram piece! This  
>> becomes a
>> > wild anecdote of a meteorite tale when one considers that the  
>> bolide
>> > passed directly over the only camera recording the sky for 500  
>> miles
>> > (over 800 km) and headed for the newly constructed and world's only
>> > UFO landing site which had been built for the Canadian Centennial
>> > exposition in St. Paul, Alberta, where it showered sparks
>> > ("retro-rockets" to some folks). In case you wondered, I believe  
>> the
>> > Japanese classified on Antarctic meteorite with 10 milligrams, if  
>> you
>> > can believe that!
>> >
>> > So what actually makes a meteorite rare can turn into a matter of
>> > semantics and who you ask. Even the scale of 3 to 6 (or 7) is  
>> somewhat
>> > arbitrary and just looks for convenient thermally changed cairns  
>> along
>> > the path toward melting. So if we went the other way, if H, L,  
>> and LL
>> > correspond to only three parent bodies, the frequency of the types
>> > follows:
>> >
>> > H 45.0%
>> > L 40.6%
>> > LL 14.3%
>> >
>> > Hope this helps a little with that general question!
>> >
>> > Kind wishes,
>> > Doug
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Melanie Matthews <miss_meteorite at yahoo.ca>
>> > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> > Sent: Tue, Dec 15, 2009 7:01 am
>> > Subject: [meteorite-list] Ordinary chondrites - rarest to the most
>> > common classes
>> >
>> >
>> > G'mornin' listites,,
>> > What is the least common type of ordinary chondrite, as well as the
>> > most common?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Thanks
>> > -----------
>> > Melanie
>> > IMCA: 2975
>> > eBay: metmel2775
>> > Known on SkyRock Cafe as SpaceCollector09
>> >
>> > Unclassified meteorites are like a box of chocolates... you never  
>> know
>> > what
>> > you're gonna get!
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >__________________________________________________________________
>> > Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr!
>> >
>> > http://www.flickr.com/gift/
>> >
>> >______________________________________________
>> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> > Meteorite-list mailing list
>> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> >
>> >______________________________________________
>> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> > Meteorite-list mailing list
>> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman       phone: (703) 648-6184
>> US Geological Survey          fax:   (703) 648-6383
>> 954 National Center
>> Reston, VA 20192, USA
>>
>>
>>______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>>______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman       phone: (703) 648-6184
> US Geological Survey          fax:   (703) 648-6383
> 954 National Center
> Reston, VA 20192, USA
>
>
>______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

From jgrossman at usgs.gov  Wed Dec 16 11:12:27 2009
From: jgrossman at usgs.gov (Jeff Grossman)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 11:12:27 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Ordinary chondrites - decimal metamorphic
 grade question
In-Reply-To: <1007140231-1260979442-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim
	.net-413127853-@bda667.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
References: <846731.54222.qm@web114007.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<8CC4C47FAE1051B-1B34-2687@webmail-m067.sysops.aol.com>
	<4B28B75D.2000406@usgs.gov>
	<004601ca7e5b$ea29eba0$07b22959@name86d88d87e2>
	<OFD810B48C.266EF23D-ON0525768E.0054D395@usgs.gov>
	<387D6E36-A1A6-44BF-9824-C3C54810E62E@dof3.com>
	<1007140231-1260979442-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-413127853-@bda667.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <OFF92335D7.0ECAE30D-ON0525768E.00590DEE@usgs.gov>

The hundredths place is only defined for type 3s 
that are lower than type 3.2.  This is because 
there is a lot of variation in metamorphic 
effects in the low end of the range, too much to 
cram into just types 3.0 and 3.1.  Initially, I 
define 4 new classes: 3.00, 3.05, 3.10 and 3.15 
(Grossman and Brearley 2005, in 
MAPS).  Subsequently Kimura, I and others have 
realized that there are subtle variations that 
may require more categories between 3.00 and 
3.05, e.g. Semarkona as a type 3.01, as compared 
with CR chondrites which are mostly type 3.00.

You do not need specialized equipment other than 
an electron microprobe to determine 
this.  However, with high-resolution FE-SEM 
imaging, you can see structures in the metal and 
olivine that also give this classification 
information.  Raman spectroscopy also helps classify meteorites in this range.

Jeff

At 11:04 AM 12/16/2009, Matt Morgan wrote:
>Since Darryl brought up his incredible LL3.05, I 
>have to ask how does/can one classify the 
>metamorphic grade to the to the tenths or now 
>the hundredths of a decimal? I have had some 
>tell me this is subjective and others say you 
>need specialized equipment. Please, any researchers, explain.
>
>Darryl-
>I don't mean to pick on your material, but it is 
>a question that has been nagging me for sometime and you stirred my brain!
>
>Thanks in advance!
>Matt
>----------------------
>Matt Morgan
>Mile High Meteorites
>http://www.mhmeteorites.com
>P.O. Box 151293
>Lakewood, CO 80215 USA
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Darryl Pitt <darryl at dof3.com>
>Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 10:35:38
>To: Jeff Grossman<jgrossman at usgs.gov>
>Cc: <Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ordinary chondrites - rarest to the most
>         common classes
>
>
>
>Get ready for NWA 5717.....
>
>Initially "anomalous," the classification had to be changed to
>"ungrouped" as it was too difficult to determine what it was anomalous
>to.  3.05 subtype.  More to follow....
>
>
>
>
>
>On Dec 16, 2009, at 10:26 AM, Jeff Grossman wrote:
>
> > At 09:27 AM 12/16/2009, Chladnis Heirs wrote:
> >> Indeed,
> >>
> >> it's for the first time, that I read that R-chondrites are included
> >> in the
> >> OC-group. If so, why exactly them and not the K-chondrites, the
> >> Carbonaceous
> >> from grade 3-6, the ungrouped and the enstatite chondrites too?
> >
> > I didn't say they ARE included in the OCs... I said that I thought
> > they should be. As far as I know, I am alone in this opinion.  There
> > are only two Kakangari-like chondrites, and I am not prepared to put
> > them anywhere.  I'm not sure what the rest of the question means,
> > but many ungrouped chondrites can be and are associated with a major
> > class, as in "ungrouped carbonaceous chondrite".
> >
> > jeff
> >
> >
> >>
> >> >valuable type of OC from a
> >> >scientific perspective is petrologic type 3.00-3.01
> >>
> >> Where one has to say, that it's maybe too early to say that,
> >> Because the classification with decimal places, (even with two!),
> >> is a
> >> relatively new occurrence - most classifiers seems still to prefer
> >> to use a
> >> simple "3" - so that in case, there are still a lot known type-3ers
> >> awaiting
> >> to be revisited regarding the degree of their (un)equilibration.
> >>
> >> But I agree - "Ordinary" is a somewhat misleading term,
> >> - as the ordinary chondrites have told us most about the origin and
> >> formation of the solar system, the planets and ourselves, more than
> >> any iron
> >> or any lunar rock!
> >>
> >> Keep that always in mind, if you are tempted, now in the end of the
> >> desert-era and the decreed end of meteorite finding in so many
> >> countries,
> >> with all their weird and fancy exotic types, to wrinkle your nose
> >> about the
> >> "ugly" ordinary 25$-a-kilo-chunk from NWA-wonderland!
> >> Rare as brilliants they are - and they were our beginnings!
> >>
> >> Happy holidays to all!
> >> Martin
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> >> Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> >> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von
> >> Jeff
> >> Grossman
> >> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 16. Dezember 2009 11:33
> >> An: Meteorite-list
> >> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Ordinary chondrites - rarest to the
> >> most
> >> common classes
> >>
> >> I agree with Doug... the rarest and most valuable type of OC from a
> >> scientific perspective is petrologic type 3.00-3.01, from any of the
> >> chemical groups.  Only one is known... Semarkona.  If we take a more
> >> expansive definition of "ordinary chondrite" than most of my rather
> >> conservative colleagues are normally willing to accept, I would say
> >> that
> >> the rarest group of OCs is the R chondrites (only ~100 are known and
> >> many of those are paired).  In addition, a number of unique ungrouped
> >> meteorites are OC-like.  But again, I don't know of any colleagues
> >> who
> >> agree with me that R chondrites are in the OC class. [I would say
> >> that
> >> the OC class has two clans, the H-L-LL clan and the R clan].
> >>
> >> Jeff
> >>
> >> Mexicodoug wrote:
> >> > Hi Melanie and thanks for the enthusiasm you add to the list ...
> >> >
> >> > Here's a high to low sorting of the "ordinary chondrites", for over
> >> > 32,000 meteorites:
> >> >
> >> > 22.0% L6 ("most common")
> >> > 19.9% H5
> >> > 12.9% L5
> >> > 12.3% H4
> >> > 11.5% H6
> >> > 7.8% LL5
> >> > 4.2% LL6
> >> > 3.3% L4
> >> > 2.2% H3
> >> > 2.0% L3
> >> > 0.8% LL4
> >> > 0.8% LL3
> >> > 0.1% L7
> >> > 0.1% LL7
> >> > 0.03% H7 ("least common")
> >> >
> >> > But this "common" and "rare" is a misleading label. That is a
> >> harder
> >> > question if you look too closely at the deails and consider
> >> > inhomogeneous and brecciated ordinary chondrites. That can all
> >> become
> >> > somewhat unique if you ask the right person. Then there are the
> >> motley
> >> > crew of ungrouped ordinary chondrites where it is hard to
> >> generalize.
> >> > Some may be a weak classification while others might truly be weird
> >> > ("rare").
> >> >
> >> > Just a few notes: the H7, L7, LL7 types are not widely used in the
> >> > literature and border on impact melts, so I'd take them with a
> >> grain
> >> > of salt unless someone goes postal on me in which case they are
> >> right
> >> > in whatever they say. The way I listed these, the meteorites are
> >> > counted by the lowest number and won't show up in the higher
> >> thermal
> >> > (metamorphosed) levels. In other words, for example, an LL3.8-6 is
> >> > counted with the LL3's.
> >> >
> >> > If you have a special meteorite, it can sometimes be a "rarer"
> >> type if
> >> > you start to split hairs, like H3.8 instead of just grouping it
> >> within
> >> > the H3's, but there is some degree of arbitrariness to this. The
> >> > tendency is that more virgin Solar system stuff (closer and closer
> >> > 3.00) is more special and like a holy grail ("rare" in a sense) to
> >> > some who study that - since it is more representative of the
> >> original
> >> > material before water and heat were added and did their thing. From
> >> > hat we can try to get the proof we need to work out early formation
> >> > processes and theorize on the related dynamics happening. By this
> >> > logic, and considering it is a very studied meteorite, the precious
> >> > meteorite SEMARKONA (LL3.00 or is it 3.01 :-)), a witnessed fall
> >> from
> >> > India, is rather unique being the only one with that 3.00
> >> > classification, which makes it super intact since formation and
> >> > especially interesting to experts, and most notably Dr. Jeff
> >> Grossman
> >> > who reviewed and updated its classification upon careful study.
> >> >
> >> > By another measure, the "common" ordinary chondrite, L5, Canadian
> >> > witnessed fall, VILNA, is one of those very few special meteorites
> >> > that was imaged during atmospheric entry and a precise orbit was
> >> > determined. It was not too far from Buzzard Coulee, and what
> >> makes it
> >> > even more special is that it was classified from a (although
> >> witnesses
> >> > heard pieces whizzing around) 94 milligram fragment with fusion
> >> crust.
> >> > The only other specimen found was a 48 milligram piece! This
> >> becomes a
> >> > wild anecdote of a meteorite tale when one considers that the
> >> bolide
> >> > passed directly over the only camera recording the sky for 500
> >> miles
> >> > (over 800 km) and headed for the newly constructed and world's only
> >> > UFO landing site which had been built for the Canadian Centennial
> >> > exposition in St. Paul, Alberta, where it showered sparks
> >> > ("retro-rockets" to some folks). In case you wondered, I believe
> >> the
> >> > Japanese classified on Antarctic meteorite with 10 milligrams, if
> >> you
> >> > can believe that!
> >> >
> >> > So what actually makes a meteorite rare can turn into a matter of
> >> > semantics and who you ask. Even the scale of 3 to 6 (or 7) is
> >> somewhat
> >> > arbitrary and just looks for convenient thermally changed cairns
> >> along
> >> > the path toward melting. So if we went the other way, if H, L,
> >> and LL
> >> > correspond to only three parent bodies, the frequency of the types
> >> > follows:
> >> >
> >> > H 45.0%
> >> > L 40.6%
> >> > LL 14.3%
> >> >
> >> > Hope this helps a little with that general question!
> >> >
> >> > Kind wishes,
> >> > Doug
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > From: Melanie Matthews <miss_meteorite at yahoo.ca>
> >> > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >> > Sent: Tue, Dec 15, 2009 7:01 am
> >> > Subject: [meteorite-list] Ordinary chondrites - rarest to the most
> >> > common classes
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > G'mornin' listites,,
> >> > What is the least common type of ordinary chondrite, as well as the
> >> > most common?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Thanks
> >> > -----------
> >> > Melanie
> >> > IMCA: 2975
> >> > eBay: metmel2775
> >> > Known on SkyRock Cafe as SpaceCollector09
> >> >
> >> > Unclassified meteorites are like a box of chocolates... you never
> >> know
> >> > what
> >> > you're gonna get!
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >__________________________________________________________________
> >> > Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr!
> >> >
> >> > http://www.flickr.com/gift/
> >> >
> >> >______________________________________________
> >> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> >> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> >> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >> >
> >> >______________________________________________
> >> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> >> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> >> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman       phone: (703) 648-6184
> >> US Geological Survey          fax:   (703) 648-6383
> >> 954 National Center
> >> Reston, VA 20192, USA
> >>
> >>
> >>______________________________________________
> >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> >> Meteorite-list mailing list
> >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >>
> >>______________________________________________
> >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> >> Meteorite-list mailing list
> >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >
> > Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman       phone: (703) 648-6184
> > US Geological Survey          fax:   (703) 648-6383
> > 954 National Center
> > Reston, VA 20192, USA
> >
> >
> >______________________________________________
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>______________________________________________
>http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>Meteorite-list mailing list
>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman       phone: (703) 648-6184
US Geological Survey          fax:   (703) 648-6383
954 National Center
Reston, VA 20192, USA




From jgrossman at usgs.gov  Wed Dec 16 11:29:59 2009
From: jgrossman at usgs.gov (Jeff Grossman)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 11:29:59 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Ordinary chondrites - decimal metamorphic
 grade question
Message-ID: <OF72E2197F.84B2B8AD-ON0525768E.005AA8E6@usgs.gov>

p.s.: I can determine the 3.00-3.05-3.10-3.15 
subtypes reasonably well on most ordinary 
chondrites using a thin section and a petrographic microscope.

jeff

>The hundredths place is only defined for type 3s 
>that are lower than type 3.2.  This is because 
>there is a lot of variation in metamorphic 
>effects in the low end of the range, too much to 
>cram into just types 3.0 and 3.1.  Initially, I 
>define 4 new classes: 3.00, 3.05, 3.10 and 3.15 
>(Grossman and Brearley 2005, in 
>MAPS).  Subsequently Kimura, I and others have 
>realized that there are subtle variations that 
>may require more categories between 3.00 and 
>3.05, e.g. Semarkona as a type 3.01, as compared 
>with CR chondrites which are mostly type 3.00.
>
>You do not need specialized equipment other than 
>an electron microprobe to determine 
>this.  However, with high-resolution FE-SEM 
>imaging, you can see structures in the metal and 
>olivine that also give this classification 
>information.  Raman spectroscopy also helps classify meteorites in this range.
>
>Jeff


At 11:04 AM 12/16/2009, Matt Morgan wrote:
>Since Darryl brought up his incredible LL3.05, I 
>have to ask how does/can one classify the 
>metamorphic grade to the to the tenths or now 
>the hundredths of a decimal? I have had some 
>tell me this is subjective and others say you 
>need specialized equipment. Please, any researchers, explain.
>
>Darryl-
>I don't mean to pick on your material, but it is 
>a question that has been nagging me for sometime and you stirred my brain!
>
>Thanks in advance!
>Matt
>----------------------
>Matt Morgan
>Mile High Meteorites
>http://www.mhmeteorites.com
>P.O. Box 151293
>Lakewood, CO 80215 USA
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Darryl Pitt <darryl at dof3.com>
>Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 10:35:38
>To: Jeff Grossman<jgrossman at usgs.gov>
>Cc: <Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ordinary chondrites - rarest to the most
>         common classes
>
>
>
>Get ready for NWA 5717.....
>
>Initially "anomalous," the classification had to be changed to
>"ungrouped" as it was too difficult to determine what it was anomalous
>to.  3.05 subtype.  More to follow....
>
>
>
>
>
>On Dec 16, 2009, at 10:26 AM, Jeff Grossman wrote:
>
> > At 09:27 AM 12/16/2009, Chladnis Heirs wrote:
> >> Indeed,
> >>
> >> it's for the first time, that I read that R-chondrites are included
> >> in the
> >> OC-group. If so, why exactly them and not the K-chondrites, the
> >> Carbonaceous
> >> from grade 3-6, the ungrouped and the enstatite chondrites too?
> >
> > I didn't say they ARE included in the OCs... I said that I thought
> > they should be. As far as I know, I am alone in this opinion.  There
> > are only two Kakangari-like chondrites, and I am not prepared to put
> > them anywhere.  I'm not sure what the rest of the question means,
> > but many ungrouped chondrites can be and are associated with a major
> > class, as in "ungrouped carbonaceous chondrite".
> >
> > jeff
> >
> >
> >>
> >> >valuable type of OC from a
> >> >scientific perspective is petrologic type 3.00-3.01
> >>
> >> Where one has to say, that it's maybe too early to say that,
> >> Because the classification with decimal places, (even with two!),
> >> is a
> >> relatively new occurrence - most classifiers seems still to prefer
> >> to use a
> >> simple "3" - so that in case, there are still a lot known type-3ers
> >> awaiting
> >> to be revisited regarding the degree of their (un)equilibration.
> >>
> >> But I agree - "Ordinary" is a somewhat misleading term,
> >> - as the ordinary chondrites have told us most about the origin and
> >> formation of the solar system, the planets and ourselves, more than
> >> any iron
> >> or any lunar rock!
> >>
> >> Keep that always in mind, if you are tempted, now in the end of the
> >> desert-era and the decreed end of meteorite finding in so many
> >> countries,
> >> with all their weird and fancy exotic types, to wrinkle your nose
> >> about the
> >> "ugly" ordinary 25$-a-kilo-chunk from NWA-wonderland!
> >> Rare as brilliants they are - and they were our beginnings!
> >>
> >> Happy holidays to all!
> >> Martin
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> >> Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> >> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von
> >> Jeff
> >> Grossman
> >> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 16. Dezember 2009 11:33
> >> An: Meteorite-list
> >> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Ordinary chondrites - rarest to the
> >> most
> >> common classes
> >>
> >> I agree with Doug... the rarest and most valuable type of OC from a
> >> scientific perspective is petrologic type 3.00-3.01, from any of the
> >> chemical groups.  Only one is known... Semarkona.  If we take a more
> >> expansive definition of "ordinary chondrite" than most of my rather
> >> conservative colleagues are normally willing to accept, I would say
> >> that
> >> the rarest group of OCs is the R chondrites (only ~100 are known and
> >> many of those are paired).  In addition, a number of unique ungrouped
> >> meteorites are OC-like.  But again, I don't know of any colleagues
> >> who
> >> agree with me that R chondrites are in the OC class. [I would say
> >> that
> >> the OC class has two clans, the H-L-LL clan and the R clan].
> >>
> >> Jeff
> >>
> >> Mexicodoug wrote:
> >> > Hi Melanie and thanks for the enthusiasm you add to the list ...
> >> >
> >> > Here's a high to low sorting of the "ordinary chondrites", for over
> >> > 32,000 meteorites:
> >> >
> >> > 22.0% L6 ("most common")
> >> > 19.9% H5
> >> > 12.9% L5
> >> > 12.3% H4
> >> > 11.5% H6
> >> > 7.8% LL5
> >> > 4.2% LL6
> >> > 3.3% L4
> >> > 2.2% H3
> >> > 2.0% L3
> >> > 0.8% LL4
> >> > 0.8% LL3
> >> > 0.1% L7
> >> > 0.1% LL7
> >> > 0.03% H7 ("least common")
> >> >
> >> > But this "common" and "rare" is a misleading label. That is a
> >> harder
> >> > question if you look too closely at the deails and consider
> >> > inhomogeneous and brecciated ordinary chondrites. That can all
> >> become
> >> > somewhat unique if you ask the right person. Then there are the
> >> motley
> >> > crew of ungrouped ordinary chondrites where it is hard to
> >> generalize.
> >> > Some may be a weak classification while others might truly be weird
> >> > ("rare").
> >> >
> >> > Just a few notes: the H7, L7, LL7 types are not widely used in the
> >> > literature and border on impact melts, so I'd take them with a
> >> grain
> >> > of salt unless someone goes postal on me in which case they are
> >> right
> >> > in whatever they say. The way I listed these, the meteorites are
> >> > counted by the lowest number and won't show up in the higher
> >> thermal
> >> > (metamorphosed) levels. In other words, for example, an LL3.8-6 is
> >> > counted with the LL3's.
> >> >
> >> > If you have a special meteorite, it can sometimes be a "rarer"
> >> type if
> >> > you start to split hairs, like H3.8 instead of just grouping it
> >> within
> >> > the H3's, but there is some degree of arbitrariness to this. The
> >> > tendency is that more virgin Solar system stuff (closer and closer
> >> > 3.00) is more special and like a holy grail ("rare" in a sense) to
> >> > some who study that - since it is more representative of the
> >> original
> >> > material before water and heat were added and did their thing. From
> >> > hat we can try to get the proof we need to work out early formation
> >> > processes and theorize on the related dynamics happening. By this
> >> > logic, and considering it is a very studied meteorite, the precious
> >> > meteorite SEMARKONA (LL3.00 or is it 3.01 :-)), a witnessed fall
> >> from
> >> > India, is rather unique being the only one with that 3.00
> >> > classification, which makes it super intact since formation and
> >> > especially interesting to experts, and most notably Dr. Jeff
> >> Grossman
> >> > who reviewed and updated its classification upon careful study.
> >> >
> >> > By another measure, the "common" ordinary chondrite, L5, Canadian
> >> > witnessed fall, VILNA, is one of those very few special meteorites
> >> > that was imaged during atmospheric entry and a precise orbit was
> >> > determined. It was not too far from Buzzard Coulee, and what
> >> makes it
> >> > even more special is that it was classified from a (although
> >> witnesses
> >> > heard pieces whizzing around) 94 milligram fragment with fusion
> >> crust.
> >> > The only other specimen found was a 48 milligram piece! This
> >> becomes a
> >> > wild anecdote of a meteorite tale when one considers that the
> >> bolide
> >> > passed directly over the only camera recording the sky for 500
> >> miles
> >> > (over 800 km) and headed for the newly constructed and world's only
> >> > UFO landing site which had been built for the Canadian Centennial
> >> > exposition in St. Paul, Alberta, where it showered sparks
> >> > ("retro-rockets" to some folks). In case you wondered, I believe
> >> the
> >> > Japanese classified on Antarctic meteorite with 10 milligrams, if
> >> you
> >> > can believe that!
> >> >
> >> > So what actually makes a meteorite rare can turn into a matter of
> >> > semantics and who you ask. Even the scale of 3 to 6 (or 7) is
> >> somewhat
> >> > arbitrary and just looks for convenient thermally changed cairns
> >> along
> >> > the path toward melting. So if we went the other way, if H, L,
> >> and LL
> >> > correspond to only three parent bodies, the frequency of the types
> >> > follows:
> >> >
> >> > H 45.0%
> >> > L 40.6%
> >> > LL 14.3%
> >> >
> >> > Hope this helps a little with that general question!
> >> >
> >> > Kind wishes,
> >> > Doug
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > From: Melanie Matthews <miss_meteorite at yahoo.ca>
> >> > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >> > Sent: Tue, Dec 15, 2009 7:01 am
> >> > Subject: [meteorite-list] Ordinary chondrites - rarest to the most
> >> > common classes
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > G'mornin' listites,,
> >> > What is the least common type of ordinary chondrite, as well as the
> >> > most common?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Thanks
> >> > -----------
> >> > Melanie
> >> > IMCA: 2975
> >> > eBay: metmel2775
> >> > Known on SkyRock Cafe as SpaceCollector09
> >> >
> >> > Unclassified meteorites are like a box of chocolates... you never
> >> know
> >> > what
> >> > you're gonna get!
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >__________________________________________________________________
> >> > Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr!
> >> >
> >> > http://www.flickr.com/gift/
> >> >
> >> >______________________________________________
> >> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> >> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> >> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >> >
> >> >______________________________________________
> >> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> >> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> >> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman       phone: (703) 648-6184
> >> US Geological Survey          fax:   (703) 648-6383
> >> 954 National Center
> >> Reston, VA 20192, USA
> >>
> >>
> >>______________________________________________
> >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> >> Meteorite-list mailing list
> >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >>
> >>______________________________________________
> >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> >> Meteorite-list mailing list
> >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >
> > Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman       phone: (703) 648-6184
> > US Geological Survey          fax:   (703) 648-6383
> > 954 National Center
> > Reston, VA 20192, USA
> >
> >
> >______________________________________________
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>______________________________________________
>http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>Meteorite-list mailing list
>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman       phone: (703) 648-6184
US Geological Survey          fax:   (703) 648-6383
954 National Center
Reston, VA 20192, USA


______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman       phone: (703) 648-6184
US Geological Survey          fax:   (703) 648-6383
954 National Center
Reston, VA 20192, USA




From mexicodoug at aim.com  Wed Dec 16 12:00:54 2009
From: mexicodoug at aim.com (Mexicodoug)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 12:00:54 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Ordinary chondrites - rarest to the most
 common classes
In-Reply-To: <004601ca7e5b$ea29eba0$07b22959@name86d88d87e2>
References: <846731.54222.qm@web114007.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><8CC4C47FAE1051B-1B34-2687@webmail-m067.sysops.aol.com><4B28B75D.2000406@usgs.gov>
	<004601ca7e5b$ea29eba0$07b22959@name86d88d87e2>
Message-ID: <8CC4C88756F0D45-5214-5A60@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com>

Martin wrote:
"Where one has to say, that it's maybe too early to say that, Because 
the classification with decimal places, (even with two!), is a 
relatively new occurrence..."

Dear Martin,

Your comment sounds to me like the hungry man's dubitable evaluations 
of the quality of the the world's leading pancake expert, which 
persisted until he ate his fill of her goodies.

Ref: "The Perfect Pancake" by Virginia Kahl http://tinyurl.com/ygjnju6

There are many parallels between say, beach combing and meteorite 
collecting. While beauty is in the eye of the beholder and a thousand 
and one contortions of the word "rarity" can and will be made by the 
interested, I would personally say there is tendency of beachcombers to 
want shells that are intact, whether it be for aesthetic reasons or 
scientific study to best figure out everything from the evolution to 
the habits of the mollusk who created his shell. The case is similar 
with meteorites. Jeff's comment (as did mine) referred to the 
scientific value of pristine examples which have not been cooked or 
watered down. That is undeniable for those interested in the question 
of genesis. Jeff and I have side-stepped the question of "rarity". 
Personally I think it is moot here. If someone wants to study something 
else like an LL3/LL4 smash up, or all the power to them regarding 
"rarity" claims, since, like Semarkona LL3.00, only one of them appears 
in the database.

Without considering Plutoing the R-chondrites, and with all respect 
that each meteorite is unique in its own way, here?s the overview on 
LL3 classification:

LL's are the rarest of the H-L-LL tribe (representing only 14%),
LL3 represents only 0.8% of OC's, the least frequent in the database.
Petrological grade 3's of any type (H-L-LL) are also the "rarest" 
well-established classification - just 5%.

That would make LL3 a natural regarding "rarity", above and beyond its 
scientific desirability to leading researchers like Jeff. Again the 
words "holy grail" for OC's come to mind. The association of low 
petrological grade (3) with scarcity for recovered meteorites is only 
being extrapolated to the extreme with Semarkona, and is of very 
arguably special scientific value:

Here?s the current LL3 situation in numbers:

Type # %LL's
LL3.X or LL3.XX 157 58.58%
LL3 102 38.06%
LL3-XX 8 2.99%
LL3/4 1 0.37%

To the point: As you can see, there is plenty more than a natural human 
inclination towards perfection (with respect to raw sampling of the 
unaltered first meteorites to condense from the soup) in the database 
to argue that a LL3.00 or LL3.01 is hard to to find. I?m hopeful you 
are right and more "most primitive" OC's are found as classification 
gets more complex, but the tendency that many will be is just not there 
if you look over the numbers so far covering (in this case) over half 
of all LL3's.

If you want to say, for example, the "rarest" is the "H7" 
classification - all nine of them- such as NWA 2898, I won't argue. 
Many scientists have purposefully avoided that classification which is 
another story. It just depends where your interests lie and all 
meteorites have their unique story. I don't think we can look at this 
as a bell curve with a 3 end and "7" end as the tails, though. If we 
hypothesize that there is an OC-type origin point I hope we are having 
a go at a singularity and elucidation of commonality In the 
Beginning... I know, most of us would rather remain on the fence eating 
all flavors of pancakes :-) ... it's such a loaded question ...
Kind wishes, and happy holidays
Doug


-----Original Message-----
From: Chladnis Heirs <news at chladnis-heirs.com>
To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:27 am
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ordinary chondrites - rarest to the most 
common classes


Indeed,

it's for the first time, that I read that R-chondrites are included in 
the
OC-group. If so, why exactly them and not the K-chondrites, the 
Carbonaceous
from grade 3-6, the ungrouped and the enstatite chondrites too?

>valuable type of OC from a
>scientific perspective is petrologic type 3.00-3.01

Where one has to say, that it's maybe too early to say that,
Because the classification with decimal places, (even with two!), is a
relatively new occurrence - most classifiers seems still to prefer to 
use a
simple "3" - so that in case, there are still a lot known type-3ers 
awaiting
to be revisited regarding the degree of their (un)equilibration.

But I agree - "Ordinary" is a somewhat misleading term,
- as the ordinary chondrites have told us most about the origin and
formation of the solar system, the planets and ourselves, more than any 
iron
or any lunar rock!

Keep that always in mind, if you are tempted, now in the end of the
desert-era and the decreed end of meteorite finding in so many 
countries,
with all their weird and fancy exotic types, to wrinkle your nose about 
the
"ugly" ordinary 25$-a-kilo-chunk from NWA-wonderland!
Rare as brilliants they are - and they were our beginnings!

Happy holidays to all!
Martin


-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Jeff
Grossman
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 16. Dezember 2009 11:33
An: Meteorite-list
Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Ordinary chondrites - rarest to the most
common classes

I agree with Doug... the rarest and most valuable type of OC from a
scientific perspective is petrologic type 3.00-3.01, from any of the
chemical groups. Only one is known... Semarkona. If we take a more
expansive definition of "ordinary chondrite" than most of my rather
conservative colleagues are normally willing to accept, I would say 
that
the rarest group of OCs is the R chondrites (only ~100 are known and
many of those are paired). In addition, a number of unique ungrouped
meteorites are OC-like. But again, I don't know of any colleagues who
agree with me that R chondrites are in the OC class. [I would say that
the OC class has two clans, the H-L-LL clan and the R clan].

Jeff

Mexicodoug wrote:
> Hi Melanie and thanks for the enthusiasm you add to the list ...
>
> Here's a high to low sorting of the "ordinary chondrites", for over
> 32,000 meteorites:
>
> 22.0% L6 ("most common")
> 19.9% H5
> 12.9% L5
> 12.3% H4
> 11.5% H6
> 7.8% LL5
> 4.2% LL6
> 3.3% L4
> 2.2% H3
> 2.0% L3
> 0.8% LL4
> 0.8% LL3
> 0.1% L7
> 0.1% LL7
> 0.03% H7 ("least common")
>
> But this "common" and "rare" is a misleading label. That is a harder
> question if you look too closely at the deails and consider
> inhomogeneous and brecciated ordinary chondrites. That can all become
> somewhat unique if you ask the right person. Then there are the 
motley
> crew of ungrouped ordinary chondrites where it is hard to generalize.
> Some may be a weak classification while others might truly be weird
> ("rare").
>
> Just a few notes: the H7, L7, LL7 types are not widely used in the
> literature and border on impact melts, so I'd take them with a grain
> of salt unless someone goes postal on me in which case they are right
> in whatever they say. The way I listed these, the meteorites are
> counted by the lowest number and won't show up in the higher thermal
> (metamorphosed) levels. In other words, for example, an LL3.8-6 is
> counted with the LL3's.
>
> If you have a special meteorite, it can sometimes be a "rarer" type 
if
> you start to split hairs, like H3.8 instead of just grouping it 
within
> the H3's, but there is some degree of arbitrariness to this. The
> tendency is that more virgin Solar system stuff (closer and closer
> 3.00) is more special and like a holy grail ("rare" in a sense) to
> some who study that - since it is more representative of the original
> material before water and heat were added and did their thing. From
> hat we can try to get the proof we need to work out early formation
> processes and theorize on the related dynamics happening. By this
> logic, and considering it is a very studied meteorite, the precious
> meteorite SEMARKONA (LL3.00 or is it 3.01 :-)), a witnessed fall from
> India, is rather unique being the only one with that 3.00
> classification, which makes it super intact since formation and
> especially interesting to experts, and most notably Dr. Jeff Grossman
> who reviewed and updated its classification upon careful study.
>
> By another measure, the "common" ordinary chondrite, L5, Canadian
> witnessed fall, VILNA, is one of those very few special meteorites
> that was imaged during atmospheric entry and a precise orbit was
> determined. It was not too far from Buzzard Coulee, and what makes it
> even more special is that it was classified from a (although 
witnesses
> heard pieces whizzing around) 94 milligram fragment with fusion 
crust.
> The only other specimen found was a 48 milligram piece! This becomes 
a
> wild anecdote of a meteorite tale when one considers that the bolide
> passed directly over the only camera recording the sky for 500 miles
> (over 800 km) and headed for the newly constructed and world's only
> UFO landing site which had been built for the Canadian Centennial
> exposition in St. Paul, Alberta, where it showered sparks
> ("retro-rockets" to some folks). In case you wondered, I believe the
> Japanese classified on Antarctic meteorite with 10 milligrams, if you
> can believe that!
>
> So what actually makes a meteorite rare can turn into a matter of
> semantics and who you ask. Even the scale of 3 to 6 (or 7) is 
somewhat
> arbitrary and just looks for convenient thermally changed cairns 
along
> the path toward melting. So if we went the other way, if H, L, and LL
> correspond to only three parent bodies, the frequency of the types
> follows:
>
> H 45.0%
> L 40.6%
> LL 14.3%
>
> Hope this helps a little with that general question!
>
> Kind wishes,
> Doug
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Melanie Matthews <miss_meteorite at yahoo.ca>
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Sent: Tue, Dec 15, 2009 7:01 am
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Ordinary chondrites - rarest to the most
> common classes
>
>
> G'mornin' listites,,
> What is the least common type of ordinary chondrite, as well as the
> most common?
>
>
>
> Thanks
> -----------
> Melanie
> IMCA: 2975
> eBay: metmel2775
> Known on SkyRock Cafe as SpaceCollector09
>
> Unclassified meteorites are like a box of chocolates... you never 
know
> what
> you're gonna get!
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________________________
> Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr!
>
> http://www.flickr.com/gift/
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


--
Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703) 648-6184
US Geological Survey fax: (703) 648-6383
954 National Center
Reston, VA 20192, USA


______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


From darryl at dof3.com  Wed Dec 16 12:12:36 2009
From: darryl at dof3.com (Darryl Pitt)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 12:12:36 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Ordinary chondrites - decimal metamorphic
	grade question
In-Reply-To: <1007140231-1260979442-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-413127853-@bda667.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
References: <846731.54222.qm@web114007.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><8CC4C47FAE1051B-1B34-2687@webmail-m067.sysops.aol.com><4B28B75D.2000406@usgs.gov><004601ca7e5b$ea29eba0$07b22959@name86d88d87e2><OFD810B48C.266EF23D-ON0525768E.0054D395@usgs.gov><387D6E36-A1A6-44BF-9824-C3C54810E62E@dof3.com>
	<1007140231-1260979442-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-413127853-@bda667.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <DE614257-3EC0-4374-B8F9-BE908F5630EC@dof3.com>



Hey Matt,

5717 is not an LL, one of the lithologies has more in common with an  
H---except that it has almost no metal.
The topic raised is indeed very, very interesting.   Best/ d,


On Dec 16, 2009, at 11:04 AM, Matt Morgan wrote:

> Since Darryl brought up his incredible LL3.05, I have to ask how  
> does/can one classify the metamorphic grade to the to the tenths or  
> now the hundredths of a decimal? I have had some tell me this is  
> subjective and others say you need specialized equipment. Please,  
> any researchers, explain.
>
> Darryl-
> I don't mean to pick on your material, but it is a question that has  
> been nagging me for sometime and you stirred my brain!
>
> Thanks in advance!
> Matt
> ----------------------
> Matt Morgan
> Mile High Meteorites
> http://www.mhmeteorites.com
> P.O. Box 151293
> Lakewood, CO 80215 USA
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Darryl Pitt <darryl at dof3.com>
> Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 10:35:38
> To: Jeff Grossman<jgrossman at usgs.gov>
> Cc: <Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ordinary chondrites - rarest to the most
> 	common classes
>
>
>
> Get ready for NWA 5717.....
>
> Initially "anomalous," the classification had to be changed to
> "ungrouped" as it was too difficult to determine what it was anomalous
> to.  3.05 subtype.  More to follow....
>
>
>
>
>
> On Dec 16, 2009, at 10:26 AM, Jeff Grossman wrote:
>
>> At 09:27 AM 12/16/2009, Chladnis Heirs wrote:
>>> Indeed,
>>>
>>> it's for the first time, that I read that R-chondrites are included
>>> in the
>>> OC-group. If so, why exactly them and not the K-chondrites, the
>>> Carbonaceous
>>> from grade 3-6, the ungrouped and the enstatite chondrites too?
>>
>> I didn't say they ARE included in the OCs... I said that I thought
>> they should be. As far as I know, I am alone in this opinion.  There
>> are only two Kakangari-like chondrites, and I am not prepared to put
>> them anywhere.  I'm not sure what the rest of the question means,
>> but many ungrouped chondrites can be and are associated with a major
>> class, as in "ungrouped carbonaceous chondrite".
>>
>> jeff
>>
>>
>>>
>>>> valuable type of OC from a
>>>> scientific perspective is petrologic type 3.00-3.01
>>>
>>> Where one has to say, that it's maybe too early to say that,
>>> Because the classification with decimal places, (even with two!),
>>> is a
>>> relatively new occurrence - most classifiers seems still to prefer
>>> to use a
>>> simple "3" - so that in case, there are still a lot known type-3ers
>>> awaiting
>>> to be revisited regarding the degree of their (un)equilibration.
>>>
>>> But I agree - "Ordinary" is a somewhat misleading term,
>>> - as the ordinary chondrites have told us most about the origin and
>>> formation of the solar system, the planets and ourselves, more than
>>> any iron
>>> or any lunar rock!
>>>
>>> Keep that always in mind, if you are tempted, now in the end of the
>>> desert-era and the decreed end of meteorite finding in so many
>>> countries,
>>> with all their weird and fancy exotic types, to wrinkle your nose
>>> about the
>>> "ugly" ordinary 25$-a-kilo-chunk from NWA-wonderland!
>>> Rare as brilliants they are - and they were our beginnings!
>>>
>>> Happy holidays to all!
>>> Martin
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
>>> Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
>>> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von
>>> Jeff
>>> Grossman
>>> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 16. Dezember 2009 11:33
>>> An: Meteorite-list
>>> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Ordinary chondrites - rarest to the
>>> most
>>> common classes
>>>
>>> I agree with Doug... the rarest and most valuable type of OC from a
>>> scientific perspective is petrologic type 3.00-3.01, from any of the
>>> chemical groups.  Only one is known... Semarkona.  If we take a more
>>> expansive definition of "ordinary chondrite" than most of my rather
>>> conservative colleagues are normally willing to accept, I would say
>>> that
>>> the rarest group of OCs is the R chondrites (only ~100 are known and
>>> many of those are paired).  In addition, a number of unique  
>>> ungrouped
>>> meteorites are OC-like.  But again, I don't know of any colleagues
>>> who
>>> agree with me that R chondrites are in the OC class. [I would say
>>> that
>>> the OC class has two clans, the H-L-LL clan and the R clan].
>>>
>>> Jeff
>>>
>>> Mexicodoug wrote:
>>>> Hi Melanie and thanks for the enthusiasm you add to the list ...
>>>>
>>>> Here's a high to low sorting of the "ordinary chondrites", for over
>>>> 32,000 meteorites:
>>>>
>>>> 22.0% L6 ("most common")
>>>> 19.9% H5
>>>> 12.9% L5
>>>> 12.3% H4
>>>> 11.5% H6
>>>> 7.8% LL5
>>>> 4.2% LL6
>>>> 3.3% L4
>>>> 2.2% H3
>>>> 2.0% L3
>>>> 0.8% LL4
>>>> 0.8% LL3
>>>> 0.1% L7
>>>> 0.1% LL7
>>>> 0.03% H7 ("least common")
>>>>
>>>> But this "common" and "rare" is a misleading label. That is a
>>> harder
>>>> question if you look too closely at the deails and consider
>>>> inhomogeneous and brecciated ordinary chondrites. That can all
>>> become
>>>> somewhat unique if you ask the right person. Then there are the
>>> motley
>>>> crew of ungrouped ordinary chondrites where it is hard to
>>> generalize.
>>>> Some may be a weak classification while others might truly be weird
>>>> ("rare").
>>>>
>>>> Just a few notes: the H7, L7, LL7 types are not widely used in the
>>>> literature and border on impact melts, so I'd take them with a
>>> grain
>>>> of salt unless someone goes postal on me in which case they are
>>> right
>>>> in whatever they say. The way I listed these, the meteorites are
>>>> counted by the lowest number and won't show up in the higher
>>> thermal
>>>> (metamorphosed) levels. In other words, for example, an LL3.8-6 is
>>>> counted with the LL3's.
>>>>
>>>> If you have a special meteorite, it can sometimes be a "rarer"
>>> type if
>>>> you start to split hairs, like H3.8 instead of just grouping it
>>> within
>>>> the H3's, but there is some degree of arbitrariness to this. The
>>>> tendency is that more virgin Solar system stuff (closer and closer
>>>> 3.00) is more special and like a holy grail ("rare" in a sense) to
>>>> some who study that - since it is more representative of the
>>> original
>>>> material before water and heat were added and did their thing. From
>>>> hat we can try to get the proof we need to work out early formation
>>>> processes and theorize on the related dynamics happening. By this
>>>> logic, and considering it is a very studied meteorite, the precious
>>>> meteorite SEMARKONA (LL3.00 or is it 3.01 :-)), a witnessed fall
>>> from
>>>> India, is rather unique being the only one with that 3.00
>>>> classification, which makes it super intact since formation and
>>>> especially interesting to experts, and most notably Dr. Jeff
>>> Grossman
>>>> who reviewed and updated its classification upon careful study.
>>>>
>>>> By another measure, the "common" ordinary chondrite, L5, Canadian
>>>> witnessed fall, VILNA, is one of those very few special meteorites
>>>> that was imaged during atmospheric entry and a precise orbit was
>>>> determined. It was not too far from Buzzard Coulee, and what
>>> makes it
>>>> even more special is that it was classified from a (although
>>> witnesses
>>>> heard pieces whizzing around) 94 milligram fragment with fusion
>>> crust.
>>>> The only other specimen found was a 48 milligram piece! This
>>> becomes a
>>>> wild anecdote of a meteorite tale when one considers that the
>>> bolide
>>>> passed directly over the only camera recording the sky for 500
>>> miles
>>>> (over 800 km) and headed for the newly constructed and world's only
>>>> UFO landing site which had been built for the Canadian Centennial
>>>> exposition in St. Paul, Alberta, where it showered sparks
>>>> ("retro-rockets" to some folks). In case you wondered, I believe
>>> the
>>>> Japanese classified on Antarctic meteorite with 10 milligrams, if
>>> you
>>>> can believe that!
>>>>
>>>> So what actually makes a meteorite rare can turn into a matter of
>>>> semantics and who you ask. Even the scale of 3 to 6 (or 7) is
>>> somewhat
>>>> arbitrary and just looks for convenient thermally changed cairns
>>> along
>>>> the path toward melting. So if we went the other way, if H, L,
>>> and LL
>>>> correspond to only three parent bodies, the frequency of the types
>>>> follows:
>>>>
>>>> H 45.0%
>>>> L 40.6%
>>>> LL 14.3%
>>>>
>>>> Hope this helps a little with that general question!
>>>>
>>>> Kind wishes,
>>>> Doug
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Melanie Matthews <miss_meteorite at yahoo.ca>
>>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> Sent: Tue, Dec 15, 2009 7:01 am
>>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Ordinary chondrites - rarest to the most
>>>> common classes
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> G'mornin' listites,,
>>>> What is the least common type of ordinary chondrite, as well as the
>>>> most common?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>> -----------
>>>> Melanie
>>>> IMCA: 2975
>>>> eBay: metmel2775
>>>> Known on SkyRock Cafe as SpaceCollector09
>>>>
>>>> Unclassified meteorites are like a box of chocolates... you never
>>> know
>>>> what
>>>> you're gonna get!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________________________
>>>> Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr!
>>>>
>>>> http://www.flickr.com/gift/
>>>>
>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>
>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman       phone: (703) 648-6184
>>> US Geological Survey          fax:   (703) 648-6383
>>> 954 National Center
>>> Reston, VA 20192, USA
>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>> Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman       phone: (703) 648-6184
>> US Geological Survey          fax:   (703) 648-6383
>> 954 National Center
>> Reston, VA 20192, USA
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From fuzzfoot at comcast.net  Wed Dec 16 16:55:43 2009
From: fuzzfoot at comcast.net (Mike Bandli)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 13:55:43 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Looking for these low profile specimen card holders
Message-ID: <0B8A2D6E884B466998E53D4439118F9A@Bandli1>

I was hoping someone knows where I can get these low-profile specimen card
holders on the cheap. These seem expensive:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350280076456

If you could let me know off-list, that would be great!

-----------------------------------
Mike Bandli
Historic Meteorites
www.HistoricMeteorites.com
IMCA?#5765
-----------------------------------




From oxytropidoceras at cox.net  Wed Dec 16 17:31:40 2009
From: oxytropidoceras at cox.net (Paul H.)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 16:31:40 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Atmospheric Interactions During Global Deposition
 of Chicxulub Impact Ejecta
Message-ID: <20091216173140.OREGK.220559.imail@eastrmwml43>

The PDF file of a PhD. dissertation about Chicxulub impact 
ejecta can be found on the Electronci Theses and Dissertations 
web page of the Department of Geosciences, University of 
Arizona at:

http://www.geo.arizona.edu/Antevs/Theses/index.html

This Department of Geosciences, University of Arizona, 
dissertation is:

Goldin, T. J., 2008, Atmospheric Interactions During Global 
Deposition of Chicxulub Impact Ejecta. Ph.D. dissertation,
Department of Geosciences, University of Arizona.

The link to PDF file of this dissertation is at:

http://www.geo.arizona.edu/Antevs/Theses/index.html

PDF file of it is downloaded from:

http://www.geo.arizona.edu/Antevs/Theses/GoldenPHD08.pdf

Yours,

Paul H.


From gmhupe at htn.net  Wed Dec 16 17:32:56 2009
From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 17:32:56 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Anomalous CO3.05 - NWA 4530
Message-ID: <CEDA46AD52914B07A6C124B1CCDC1DD3@Gregor>

Dear List Members,

In light of today's discussion of pristine chondrites, I would like to take 
this opportunity to announce Officially-named NWA 4530, an Anomalous CO3.05 
Polymict Carbonaceous Chondrite. It is just one of a handful of this 
intensely rare meteorite type.

Here is a quote from the primary researcher who analyzed NWA 4530:
"NWA 4530 is the most pristine early solar system material I have ever seen. 
There are no CO3.05s or CO3.0s or even CO3.1s that are as pristine (W/0) as 
NWA 4530... a unique and important meteorite!"

Here is the submitted classification for the Meteoritical Bulletin:

Northwest Africa 4530
     Algeria

     Find: September 2006

     Carbonaceous chondrite (CO3.05, anomalous)

History: A single 35.9gram stone broken into 5 pieces was purchased by Greg 
Hup? from a Moroccan dealer in Tagounite in September 2006.

Physical Characteristics: Very fresh, light to medium gray interior, with 
translucent dark fusion crust with internal bubbles and a prominent 
diamond-shaped reticulated pattern in areas where the crust has flaked off.

Petrography (T. Bunch and J. Wittke, NAU; A. Irving, UWS): A polymict, 
unequilibrated meteorite, exhibiting some characteristics consistent with 
other CO3 chondrites (e. g., non-spherical chondrules are most abundant and 
are lobate, distended, and highly irregular, some with fine-grained 
accretionary rims). Distinctive chondrule-like objects (designated as CLO) 
are also common and are typically fragmented with miniscule mesostasis. 
Classic chondrule types are few in number and consist mostly of densely 
packed Type I PO and POP with little to no detectable mesostasis. There is 
no apparent correlation of Cr2O3 with FeO in FeO-rich olivine with distance 
from core to rim, yet there is a correlation of Cr2O3 with FeO in 
forsteritic cores. Cr-rich olivine rims were not observed. Amoeboid olivine 
inclusions are the most common CAI. The fine-grained matrix is 
unrecrystallized with very fine-grained magnetite, sulfides, silica, 
glasses, and silicates. Rare, small cohenite grains were also found. 
Irregular-shaped sulfides are much larger and range in size from 0.02 to 
0.12 mm. Complex nuggets are of two types: (1) those consisting of 
pentlandite, troilite, and Cr-magnetite, and (2) sulfide-bearing nuggets, 
consisting of a solitary pentlandite grain surrounded by troilite with wispy 
oriented inclusions of an unknown sulfide. Magnetite is a common inclusion 
in chondrules, and the composition and distribution of magnetite is similar 
to that in CK chondrites. No NiFe metal was observed anywhere. Angular, 
large (up to 2 x 1.5 mm) igneous-textured clasts contain (in vol %): 
forsterite, 79; troilite and pentlandite, 18 and diopside, 3.

Geochemistry: Overall olivine compositions range from, Fa0.03 to Fa72 
(FeO/MnO = 61 - 133, mean is 91). Cr2O3 in FeO-rich olivine fragments has a 
range of 0.10 to 0.48 wt % with a peak at 0.34 wt % (N = 84). Chondrule-like 
fragments (CLO) have a more overall FeO-rich olivine composition, with lower 
Fa range (core Fa = 4; rim Fa =41) and lower Cr2O3 content (0.04 - 0.31, 
mean = 0.18). Chromian spinel, Cr/(Cr+Al) = 0.24 -0.34. Unknown sulfide is 
(in wt. %): Fe, 67.5 and S, 33.2.  Cr-magnetite contains 0.47 - 3.1 wt % 
Cr2O3 with minor amounts of MgO, Al2O3, P2O5, CaO and NiO. Unzoned 
igneous-textured clast olivine is Fa2.7 (FeO/MnO = 31) and diopside is 
Fs1.2Wo39.  Average matrix analysis (partial, N= 27) by defocused beam 
microanalysis is (in wt %): Na2O = 0.81; K2O = 0.25; S = 2.48; P2O5 = 0.44; 
Cr2O3 = 0.45; NiO = 0.45; S/Si = 0.19; Na/Al = 0.31. Oxygen isotopes (D. 
Rumble, CIW): analysis of acid-washed material by laser fluorination gave 
d18O = -4.228; d17O = -7.052; D17O = -4.829 per mil, consistent with CO 
chondrites.

Classification: Carbonaceous chondrite (CO3.05, anomalous). This stone is 
polymict; most components are consistent with CO3 chondrites, although 
chondrule-like components (CLO) are not common in CO chondrites (from a 
survey of 34 specimens in the NAU repository). NWA 4530 is more highly 
oxidized than most CO chondrites and is devoid of metal. The Cr2O3 content 
in olivine and the matrix composition is consistent with CO3.0 - CO3.05 
(Grossman J. N. and Brearley A. J. (2005) M&PS 40, 87-122). The weathering 
grade is W0/1; there is no evidence of any interior weathering. The shock 
level is S1.

Type specimens:  A total of 6.4 g and one polished thin section are on 
deposit at UWS. Mr. Philip Mani is the main mass holder.



Best regards,
Greg


====================
Greg Hupe
The Hupe Collection
NaturesVault (eBay)
gmhupe at htn.net
www.LunarRock.com
IMCA 3163
====================
Click here for my current eBay auctions: 
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault




From skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com  Wed Dec 16 17:45:05 2009
From: skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com (Joe Kerchner)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 14:45:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Illinois Meteorwrong sale,
	I NEED $$ Quick Sale - AD
Message-ID: <256299.7067.qm@web43412.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Hello all,
   I know that many of you have already purchased a slice or two of this material. I have heard back fro ma few of you on how much you like it and how much it looks like a meteorite. I posted a few of the comments below.
  I just want to announce that I am having a sale for the next 24 hours. You will all get free shipping and $5 off of orders $25 or more, $10 orders over $50, and $20 on orders over $100. The only reason I am having this sale is because I'm not done X-mas shopping, but I'm out out money, those two do not go together too well. Thanks you and God Bless.

http://illinoismeteorites.com/mendotawrongsforsale.htm

Best Wishes,
Joe Kerchner

Comments on this material:

Got the 21.4 gram
slice. Way cool. If this were meteoritic it would be one of the most beautiful
meteorites ever found.
____________________________________________________________________
Also joe kerchners 75
gram endcut meteorwrong also came. It sure could pass for a meteorite. This
seems to have all the nessesary elements to be a meteorite. If you do not have
a piece, you should get one just for the sure beauty of it.
_____________________________________________________________________
If you have not gotten
your meteorwrong from Joe,
you seriously need to get one.
This is the most realistic wrong on the planet. It has metal,
pseudo chrondrules, shock veins, metal inclusions, a very realistic
matrix, what will pass for fusion crust, and it just looks
like the real deal.
I defey you to just look at it without any magnifying glasses
or other means of analysis, save only a magnet.
and say it's what ever the heck it is.
That's just the thing----what the heck is it?
I dunno, but it sure looks like the real thing.
_____________________________________________________________________
Joe has got one great
wrong here.
Get a piece - you will like it. Everybody needs a wrong or two to show for
comparison and education of others. The Mendota Mystery Wrong is a great
choice.
_______________________________________________________________________
I got a couple of
pieces from Joe early on and have been waiting for the results. Now we know. I
will tell you though having them in hand they are great looking pieces. Better
than his photos show. I recommend the Mendota specimens . They are good looking
even if a wrong. You will like the specimens Joe has.



      



From altmann at meteorite-martin.de  Wed Dec 16 19:09:11 2009
From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 01:09:11 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] Ordinary chondrites - rarest to the most
	common classes
In-Reply-To: <8CC4C88756F0D45-5214-5A60@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com>
References: <846731.54222.qm@web114007.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><8CC4C47FAE1051B-1B34-2687@webmail-m067.sysops.aol.com><4B28B75D.2000406@usgs.gov>
	<004601ca7e5b$ea29eba0$07b22959@name86d88d87e2>
	<8CC4C88756F0D45-5214-5A60@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <000101ca7ead$93a77e30$07b22959@name86d88d87e2>

Hi Doug,

never I'd dare so. It was only an observation.
In former times there weren't 3.05 etc and as you know, we frequently give
type-3s in classification. Some classifier make decimal places, some not or
not yet.

Neither I had said something about the rareness.
And I fully agree about the pleasure to take a bath in as pristine
chondrules as thinkable.

My observation was a simple quantifying one.

No time, to harvest the database (I'm currently waiting to be on the road,
but due blizzards roads in half of the country of my destination are
closed).

But I suppose, that half of the type-3s weren't checked yet more detailed,
so that we can hope for more extremely unequilibrated ones!

(Especially if you keep in mind, that there is almost no meteorite with name
nor with an Antarctic number, which couldn't be rivalled by a hot desert
find, concerning the sole material).


Let it snow, let it snow, let it snow.
(But not exactly now!!)

Martin
  


-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Mexicodoug [mailto:mexicodoug at aim.com] 
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 16. Dezember 2009 18:01
An: news at chladnis-heirs.com; Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Ordinary chondrites - rarest to the most
common classes

Martin wrote:
"Where one has to say, that it's maybe too early to say that, Because 
the classification with decimal places, (even with two!), is a 
relatively new occurrence..."

Dear Martin,

Your comment sounds to me like the hungry man's dubitable evaluations 
of the quality of the the world's leading pancake expert, which 
persisted until he ate his fill of her goodies.

Ref: "The Perfect Pancake" by Virginia Kahl http://tinyurl.com/ygjnju6

There are many parallels between say, beach combing and meteorite 
collecting. While beauty is in the eye of the beholder and a thousand 
and one contortions of the word "rarity" can and will be made by the 
interested, I would personally say there is tendency of beachcombers to 
want shells that are intact, whether it be for aesthetic reasons or 
scientific study to best figure out everything from the evolution to 
the habits of the mollusk who created his shell. The case is similar 
with meteorites. Jeff's comment (as did mine) referred to the 
scientific value of pristine examples which have not been cooked or 
watered down. That is undeniable for those interested in the question 
of genesis. Jeff and I have side-stepped the question of "rarity". 
Personally I think it is moot here. If someone wants to study something 
else like an LL3/LL4 smash up, or all the power to them regarding 
"rarity" claims, since, like Semarkona LL3.00, only one of them appears 
in the database.

Without considering Plutoing the R-chondrites, and with all respect 
that each meteorite is unique in its own way, here?s the overview on 
LL3 classification:

LL's are the rarest of the H-L-LL tribe (representing only 14%),
LL3 represents only 0.8% of OC's, the least frequent in the database.
Petrological grade 3's of any type (H-L-LL) are also the "rarest" 
well-established classification - just 5%.

That would make LL3 a natural regarding "rarity", above and beyond its 
scientific desirability to leading researchers like Jeff. Again the 
words "holy grail" for OC's come to mind. The association of low 
petrological grade (3) with scarcity for recovered meteorites is only 
being extrapolated to the extreme with Semarkona, and is of very 
arguably special scientific value:

Here?s the current LL3 situation in numbers:

Type # %LL's
LL3.X or LL3.XX 157 58.58%
LL3 102 38.06%
LL3-XX 8 2.99%
LL3/4 1 0.37%

To the point: As you can see, there is plenty more than a natural human 
inclination towards perfection (with respect to raw sampling of the 
unaltered first meteorites to condense from the soup) in the database 
to argue that a LL3.00 or LL3.01 is hard to to find. I?m hopeful you 
are right and more "most primitive" OC's are found as classification 
gets more complex, but the tendency that many will be is just not there 
if you look over the numbers so far covering (in this case) over half 
of all LL3's.

If you want to say, for example, the "rarest" is the "H7" 
classification - all nine of them- such as NWA 2898, I won't argue. 
Many scientists have purposefully avoided that classification which is 
another story. It just depends where your interests lie and all 
meteorites have their unique story. I don't think we can look at this 
as a bell curve with a 3 end and "7" end as the tails, though. If we 
hypothesize that there is an OC-type origin point I hope we are having 
a go at a singularity and elucidation of commonality In the 
Beginning... I know, most of us would rather remain on the fence eating 
all flavors of pancakes :-) ... it's such a loaded question ...
Kind wishes, and happy holidays
Doug


-----Original Message-----
From: Chladnis Heirs <news at chladnis-heirs.com>
To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:27 am
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ordinary chondrites - rarest to the most 
common classes


>




From gmhupe at htn.net  Wed Dec 16 20:09:00 2009
From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 20:09:00 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA 4530 CO3.05 Photo
Message-ID: <BE3DEC304B174195BA2441F91878BF47@Gregor>

Dear List Members,

I forgot to include an image of NWA 4530. Thank you to all who pointed this 
out to me!

NWA 4530 CO3.05 Anomalous Polymict Carbonaceous Chondrite 24.7g Main Mass 
Photo:
http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa4530/nwa4530mainmass.jpg

A couple people asked how I have the patience to wait three years or more to 
announce a new meteorite. My answer, "Easy, I am in no rush to offer 
material that the researchers need time to do a proper and complete job 
classifying such important meteorites!" Often times duplicate, triplicate 
and more times of analysis is needed in order to get an accurate and 
unarguable result.

I thank the scientists with whom I work with for their tireless efforts to 
unlock the secrets of the stones.

Best regards,
Greg

====================
Greg Hupe
The Hupe Collection
NaturesVault (eBay)
gmhupe at htn.net
www.LunarRock.com
IMCA 3163
====================
Click here for my current eBay auctions: 
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault




From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Wed Dec 16 20:21:19 2009
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 20:21:19 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Ordinary chondrites - rarest to the most
	common classes
In-Reply-To: <000101ca7ead$93a77e30$07b22959@name86d88d87e2>
References: <846731.54222.qm@web114007.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<8CC4C47FAE1051B-1B34-2687@webmail-m067.sysops.aol.com>
	<4B28B75D.2000406@usgs.gov>
	<004601ca7e5b$ea29eba0$07b22959@name86d88d87e2>
	<8CC4C88756F0D45-5214-5A60@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com>
	<000101ca7ead$93a77e30$07b22959@name86d88d87e2>
Message-ID: <e51421550912161721p347ff409ud6a20b034093010f@mail.gmail.com>

Hello List,

In keeping with the current discussion on uncommon common chondrites,
I would like to announce that I have my first official classification
underway.  The paperwork has been submitted to the MS for a NWA
number.

The meteorite in question is the same small stone that I suspected was
a CR2 type, and I posted some photos to the List asking for advice.

Well, I sent a sample to UCLA for classification and the results are
back.  It is an LL3.6 chondrite. :)

I will post more information about it when the classification is
complete. Unfortunately for collectors, very little will be available
on the open market. I am keeping a small slice, selling a tiny end
cut, and the rest of the mass was donated to the UCLA collection for
study.

I'm at the hospital currently, so I don't have access to the photos
stored on my own laptop.

Best regards,

MikeG

On 12/16/09, Martin Altmann <altmann at meteorite-martin.de> wrote:
> Hi Doug,
>
> never I'd dare so. It was only an observation.
> In former times there weren't 3.05 etc and as you know, we frequently give
> type-3s in classification. Some classifier make decimal places, some not or
> not yet.
>
> Neither I had said something about the rareness.
> And I fully agree about the pleasure to take a bath in as pristine
> chondrules as thinkable.
>
> My observation was a simple quantifying one.
>
> No time, to harvest the database (I'm currently waiting to be on the road,
> but due blizzards roads in half of the country of my destination are
> closed).
>
> But I suppose, that half of the type-3s weren't checked yet more detailed,
> so that we can hope for more extremely unequilibrated ones!
>
> (Especially if you keep in mind, that there is almost no meteorite with name
> nor with an Antarctic number, which couldn't be rivalled by a hot desert
> find, concerning the sole material).
>
>
> Let it snow, let it snow, let it snow.
> (But not exactly now!!)
>
> Martin
>
>
>
> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Mexicodoug [mailto:mexicodoug at aim.com]
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 16. Dezember 2009 18:01
> An: news at chladnis-heirs.com; Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Ordinary chondrites - rarest to the most
> common classes
>
> Martin wrote:
> "Where one has to say, that it's maybe too early to say that, Because
> the classification with decimal places, (even with two!), is a
> relatively new occurrence..."
>
> Dear Martin,
>
> Your comment sounds to me like the hungry man's dubitable evaluations
> of the quality of the the world's leading pancake expert, which
> persisted until he ate his fill of her goodies.
>
> Ref: "The Perfect Pancake" by Virginia Kahl http://tinyurl.com/ygjnju6
>
> There are many parallels between say, beach combing and meteorite
> collecting. While beauty is in the eye of the beholder and a thousand
> and one contortions of the word "rarity" can and will be made by the
> interested, I would personally say there is tendency of beachcombers to
> want shells that are intact, whether it be for aesthetic reasons or
> scientific study to best figure out everything from the evolution to
> the habits of the mollusk who created his shell. The case is similar
> with meteorites. Jeff's comment (as did mine) referred to the
> scientific value of pristine examples which have not been cooked or
> watered down. That is undeniable for those interested in the question
> of genesis. Jeff and I have side-stepped the question of "rarity".
> Personally I think it is moot here. If someone wants to study something
> else like an LL3/LL4 smash up, or all the power to them regarding
> "rarity" claims, since, like Semarkona LL3.00, only one of them appears
> in the database.
>
> Without considering Plutoing the R-chondrites, and with all respect
> that each meteorite is unique in its own way, here?s the overview on
> LL3 classification:
>
> LL's are the rarest of the H-L-LL tribe (representing only 14%),
> LL3 represents only 0.8% of OC's, the least frequent in the database.
> Petrological grade 3's of any type (H-L-LL) are also the "rarest"
> well-established classification - just 5%.
>
> That would make LL3 a natural regarding "rarity", above and beyond its
> scientific desirability to leading researchers like Jeff. Again the
> words "holy grail" for OC's come to mind. The association of low
> petrological grade (3) with scarcity for recovered meteorites is only
> being extrapolated to the extreme with Semarkona, and is of very
> arguably special scientific value:
>
> Here?s the current LL3 situation in numbers:
>
> Type # %LL's
> LL3.X or LL3.XX 157 58.58%
> LL3 102 38.06%
> LL3-XX 8 2.99%
> LL3/4 1 0.37%
>
> To the point: As you can see, there is plenty more than a natural human
> inclination towards perfection (with respect to raw sampling of the
> unaltered first meteorites to condense from the soup) in the database
> to argue that a LL3.00 or LL3.01 is hard to to find. I?m hopeful you
> are right and more "most primitive" OC's are found as classification
> gets more complex, but the tendency that many will be is just not there
> if you look over the numbers so far covering (in this case) over half
> of all LL3's.
>
> If you want to say, for example, the "rarest" is the "H7"
> classification - all nine of them- such as NWA 2898, I won't argue.
> Many scientists have purposefully avoided that classification which is
> another story. It just depends where your interests lie and all
> meteorites have their unique story. I don't think we can look at this
> as a bell curve with a 3 end and "7" end as the tails, though. If we
> hypothesize that there is an OC-type origin point I hope we are having
> a go at a singularity and elucidation of commonality In the
> Beginning... I know, most of us would rather remain on the fence eating
> all flavors of pancakes :-) ... it's such a loaded question ...
> Kind wishes, and happy holidays
> Doug
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chladnis Heirs <news at chladnis-heirs.com>
> To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Sent: Wed, Dec 16, 2009 8:27 am
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ordinary chondrites - rarest to the most
> common classes
>
>
>>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


-- 
.........................................................
Michael Gilmer (Florida, USA)
Member of the Meteoritical Society.
Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com
FaceBook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale
Twitter - Twitter - http://twitter.com/GalacticStone
eBay - http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/maypickle
..........................................................


From epgrondine at yahoo.com  Wed Dec 16 20:25:50 2009
From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 17:25:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Joe's meteorwrongs
Message-ID: <424270.23857.qm@web36905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi all - 

These really had me fooled as well, and given my stroke damage hearing your comments on them makes me feel a whole lot better. 

Other baffling aspects of these:
1) The pieces looked like impact shrapnel
2) They were found on the plains of Illinois, with no similar rocks anywhere around.

So what are they then, how did they end up in pieces, and how the hell did they get there?

Oh well. Joe, there's plenty more fields to detect.

E.P.


      


From countdeiro at earthlink.net  Wed Dec 16 20:58:03 2009
From: countdeiro at earthlink.net (countdeiro at earthlink.net)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 20:58:03 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA 4530 CO3.05 Photo
Message-ID: <32801230.1261015083317.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Without a doubt, that is the most interesting and unique carbanaceous chondrite I have seen so far. Thank you for posting the photo of NWA 4530. 

Merry Chritmas, Happy Holidays and Propserous New Year,

Count Deiro 

-----Original Message-----
>From: Greg Hupe <gmhupe at htn.net>
>Sent: Dec 16, 2009 8:09 PM
>To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA 4530 CO3.05 Photo
>
>Dear List Members,
>
>I forgot to include an image of NWA 4530. Thank you to all who pointed this 
>out to me!
>
>NWA 4530 CO3.05 Anomalous Polymict Carbonaceous Chondrite 24.7g Main Mass 
>Photo:
>http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa4530/nwa4530mainmass.jpg
>
>A couple people asked how I have the patience to wait three years or more to 
>announce a new meteorite. My answer, "Easy, I am in no rush to offer 
>material that the researchers need time to do a proper and complete job 
>classifying such important meteorites!" Often times duplicate, triplicate 
>and more times of analysis is needed in order to get an accurate and 
>unarguable result.
>
>I thank the scientists with whom I work with for their tireless efforts to 
>unlock the secrets of the stones.
>
>Best regards,
>Greg
>
>====================
>Greg Hupe
>The Hupe Collection
>NaturesVault (eBay)
>gmhupe at htn.net
>www.LunarRock.com
>IMCA 3163
>====================
>Click here for my current eBay auctions: 
>http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault
>
>
>______________________________________________
>http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>Meteorite-list mailing list
>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From mikewren at gilanet.com  Wed Dec 16 20:44:55 2009
From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 18:44:55 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Holiday Auctions End Thursday/17th (72
	Auctions) Plus Store Wide Holiday Sale Ends!
Message-ID: <D63793E5-9E16-4B9A-BF73-5FCD00FD1344@gilanet.com>

Hello Everyone!

Happy Holidays to all. Also, thanks to all my friends and customers  
who supported me through this last year, as well as all the years  
before! This is my big auction and sale for the year, please enjoy and  
the are great deals to be had by all. Enjoy and Good Luck bidding!


See all auctions here:

SEE ALL AUCTIONS AT ONCE!
http://shop.ebay.com:80/meteorite-collector/m.html?LH_Auction=1&_trksid=p3911.c0.m301



SEE ALL ITEMS ON SALE IN MY STORE!
http://stores.ebay.com/voyage-botanica-natural-history


Some Highlights (Many more than listed here!)


ASH CREEK (VERY NEW) The WEST, Texas Fall, L6, 21.74g - A BEAUTIFUL  
1/2 stone with an amazing polished face. MY LAST BIG SPECIMEN TO OFFER!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=220525188890

Extremely Rare-BONDOC, Philippines, Mes, 98g - A FINE SPECIMEN & MY  
LAST LARGE ONE TO OFFER IN AUCTION! Bid to win or loose the chance to  
get a BIG ONE!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=220525066510

Cool SPHERE of NWA 869, L4-6, 273 gram - BIG BIG SPHERE!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=220525187527

New Fall- TAMDAKHT, H5, 1/2 stone, W/Crust! Really A Beautiful Specimen.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=220525155892

Seldom Available TAHOKA, Texas, L5, 25.53 g MUST SEE TO APPRECIATE!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200416767262

GLORIETA MOUNTAIN, NM., Individual, 13 gram -PRETTY COOL INDIVIDUAL!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=190357205859

Cool New-Main Mass, NWA 5534, L5-6, 350 gram - MAIN MASS  MAIN MASS
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=190357202691

Rare DONG UJMQIN QI, Mesosiderite, China, 22g - PEOPLE THIS IS RARE  
AND IAM THE ONLY DEALER WHO HAS EVER OFFERED ONE THIS SIZE STARTING AT  
0.99 cents!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=190357179527

(NEW) Ungrouped Ataxite, GRIFFITH, TX, 8.34g- One of My LAST ONES!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=190357172815

Beautiful L3, SAHARA 02500, 482 gram- HUGE COMPLETE SLICE! Packed FULL  
OF INCLUSIONS!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=190357126622

EADS, Colorado, H4 & Seldom Available, 6.86g
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=190357112271

Rare Mesosiderite- NWA 1878 , LTKW, 19.6 gram- MUST SEE MUST SEE
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=190357180645

Superb WAGON MOUND, New Mexico, 22.28 gram - NICE BRECCIATION!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=190357100471

Extremely Rare & Nice - NWA 3143, Dio, 7.07 g - NICE LARGER SLICE OF  
THIS RARITY!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=190357194117

-BEAUTIFUL LOT (15) of PALEO/ARCHAIC TOOL#2 - Kind of Goes with  
Meteorites I think!  Of course I have TOP OF THE LINE ARTIFACTS IN MY  
EBAY STORE- PALEO PALEO!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=190357087354

Very Rare Fall-ZHOVTNEVYI, Ukraine, H5, 6.15g  Pretty Rare Witnessed  
Fall!  METAL RICH SLICE!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=190357174129

Choice Specimens From NWA- Africa-500g #5
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200416654774

(New) CV3, NWA 5546 From Africa, 19.70 gram
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200416673875

NWA 2378, H3.5 Chondrite, 16.90 gram
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200416773423

SAYH AL UHAYMIR 001, L4/5, Oman, 26.06 gram
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200416764854


A WHOLE LOT MORE! Please Check Them Out!


Thanks and Best Wishes

Michael Cottingham












From pierremariepele at yahoo.fr  Thu Dec 17 01:49:17 2009
From: pierremariepele at yahoo.fr (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Pel=E9_Pierre-Marie?=)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 06:49:17 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD> 1 day left for a wonderful 982 grams
	Tafassasset !
Message-ID: <204870.47414.qm@web23002.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hello List Members,

just to inform you that there's one day left on a wonderful 982 grams Tafassasset : 
http://cgi.ebay.fr/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110467644948

It's a "buy it now" auction so be quick. It's a marvelous meteorite, a rarity. It's sold with its analysis by french laboratory EMTT and comes with a complete documentation.

It's expensive but not so much according to its weight and the ability, for meteorite dealers, to slice it and sell it in slices. 

For Meteorite-list members, I'll offer DHL shipment, insured, worldwide.

Pierre-Marie PELE
www.meteor-center.com
IMCA 3360


      



From sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com  Thu Dec 17 03:54:57 2009
From: sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com (Steve Dunklee)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 00:54:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Willamette
In-Reply-To: <93aaac890912111442r6684c262hcd7b4704a0d99e9d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <949542.20353.qm@web33204.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

if you own any Willamette at all prepair to be sued. They are not interested in the few thousands of dollars they may get from the meteorite. What the Lawers want is the Tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees.     








> E.P.,
> Steve's note does not address or resolve a single one of
> the issues I
> brought up, and only gives a possible explanation for why
> the tribe
> didn't *purchase* a specimen from Matt or Darryl; and since
> Matt
> offered to donate one to them, this still seems a poor
> explanation.? I
> didn't address this issue/question in my email, so, no,
> this clarifies
> nothing.
> Jason
> 
> On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 7:43 AM, E.P. Grondine <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> > Hi Steve -
> >
> > You may have it, what the GR lawyers and leaders are
> thinking. In any case, the AMNH left Darryl hanging in the
> wind, AS WELL AS ANY FUTURE PURCHASERS.
> >
> > PS - Jason, I hope Steve's explanation makes this
> clearer to you.
> >
> > I also hope an honorable and acceptable way out
> appears. I hope the AMNH steps up to the plate.
> >
> > E.P. Grondine
> > Man and Impact in the Americas
> >
> > --- On Fri, 12/11/09, Steve Dunklee <sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> From: Steve Dunklee <sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com>
> >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Willamette
> >> Date: Friday, December 11, 2009, 3:37 AM
> >
> >> The GR most likely did not respond
> >> due to the nature of the current legal process. I
> would
> >> compare it to buying your stolen item from a pawn
> shop. the
> >> pawn shop did not know the item was hot and made a
> legal
> >> purchase. which would also place a monetary value
> on the
> >> main mass. They can not buy a piece without
> putting thier
> >> claim to the main mass in jeopardy. there may also
> be a gag
> >> order in the case by the Judge which would prevent
> them from
> >> responding.
> >
> >> instead of trying to have the GR buy the piece it
> >> should be returned to the seller with a request
> for a
> >> refund, as the original sale/trade was illegal.
> >
> >> its like sayinmg to them "hey i just bought your
> stolen car! would you like to buy it back?"
> >
> >> have a great day
> >> Steve
> >>
> >> --- On Thu, 12/10/09, E.P. Grondine <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> > From: E.P. Grondine <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
> >> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Willamette
> >> > To: mail at mhmeteorites.com,
> >> meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com,
> >> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com,
> >> countdeiro at earthlink.net
> >> > Date: Thursday, December 10, 2009, 9:29 AM
> >> > Matt -
> >> >
> >> > Just my opinion but it is likely that the
> slicing was
> >> a
> >> > further desecration in their view, so their
> lack of
> >> response
> >> > comes as no surprise.
> >> >
> >> > I don't think Count Deiro's advice is very
> good. I
> >> would
> >> > suggest contacting them again - perhaps parts
> of the
> >> slice
> >> > could be used by them in an appropriate
> manner.
> >> >
> >> > Ed
> >> >
> >> > --- On Wed, 12/9/09, countdeiro at earthlink.net
> >> > <countdeiro at earthlink.net>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > From: countdeiro at earthlink.net
> >> > <countdeiro at earthlink.net>
> >> > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list]
> Willamette
> >> > > To: mail at mhmeteorites.com,
> >> > "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine at yahoo.com>,
> >> > meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com,
> >> > meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >> > > Date: Wednesday, December 9, 2009, 11:11
> PM
> >> > > The Grand Ronde band of American
> >> > > Indians own the largest and most
> profitable
> >> > hotel/casino in
> >> > > Oregon. Anybody who is at least 1/8th GR
> gets a
> >> > percentage
> >> > > every month . I wouldn't bother either.
> >> > > Count Deiro
> >> > >
> >> > > -----Original Message-----
> >> > > >From: Matt Morgan <mail at mhmeteorites.com>
> >> > > >Sent: Dec 9, 2009 11:04 PM
> >> > > >To: "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine at yahoo.com>,
> >> > > meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com,
> >> > > meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >> > > >Subject: Re: [meteorite-list]
> Willamette
> >> > > >
> >> > > >FYI, I offered the GR a generous
> slice of my
> >> > Willamette
> >> > > and they didn't even respond to me. ?If
> I were
> >> > Darryl,
> >> > > I wouldn't even bother.
> >> > > >
> >> > > >Matt Morgan
> >> > > >------Original Message------
> >> > > >From: E.P. Grondine
> >> > > >Sender: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> >> > > >To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >> > > >Subject: Re: [meteorite-list]
> Willamette
> >> > > >Sent: Dec 9, 2009 8:44 PM
> >> > > >
> >> > > >Darryl -
> >> > > >
> >> > > >May I suggest to you that perhaps it
> would be
> >> best
> >> > to
> >> > > find a buyer for the Willamette piece
> who wanted
> >> a tax
> >> > write
> >> > > off for gifting it back to the Grand
> Ronde
> >> peoples? I
> >> > don't
> >> > > know their financial situation, or
> plans, but I
> >> would
> >> > > suggest contacting their elders as well
> before
> >> doing
> >> > > anything.
> >> > > >
> >> > > >E.P. Grondine
> >> > > >Man and Impact in the Americas
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >>
> >______________________________________________
> >> > > >http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> >> > > >Meteorite-list mailing list
> >> > > >Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >> > > >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >----------------------
> >> > > >Matt Morgan
> >> > > >Mile High Meteorites
> >> > > >http://www.mhmeteorites.com
> >> > > >P.O. Box 151293
> >> > > >Lakewood, CO 80215 USA
> >> > >
> >>
> >______________________________________________
> >> > > >http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> >> > > >Meteorite-list mailing list
> >> > > >Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >> > > >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> ______________________________________________
> >> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> >> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> >> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > ______________________________________________
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      


From info at meteorites.com.au  Thu Dec 17 05:25:50 2009
From: info at meteorites.com.au (Jeff Kuyken)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 21:25:50 +1100
Subject: [meteorite-list] Ordinary chondrites - decimal metamorphic
	grade question
In-Reply-To: <OFF92335D7.0ECAE30D-ON0525768E.00590DEE@usgs.gov>
References: <846731.54222.qm@web114007.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><8CC4C47FAE1051B-1B34-2687@webmail-m067.sysops.aol.com><4B28B75D.2000406@usgs.gov><004601ca7e5b$ea29eba0$07b22959@name86d88d87e2><OFD810B48C.266EF23D-ON0525768E.0054D395@usgs.gov><387D6E36-A1A6-44BF-9824-C3C54810E62E@dof3.com><1007140231-1260979442-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-413127853-@bda667.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
	<OFF92335D7.0ECAE30D-ON0525768E.00590DEE@usgs.gov>
Message-ID: <BE7A2D5D97234A95A46DD906A4A10773@JeffPC>

Hi Jeff,

Inrteresting stuff indeed. One thing just caught my attention though. You 
mentioned that "CR chondrites which are mostly type 3.00" which I have not 
heard of before. The Met Bull lists nearly all as CR2, some as just CR and 
an odd CR1. My crude understanding of type-2 vs type-3 is that type-2 never 
received thermal alteration whereas type-3 is where that starts. Am I wrong 
there?

So would CR3.00 tell us that the particular meteorite in question did not go 
through any thermal metamorphism? How would that vary from CR2?

Thanks,

Jeff


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jeff Grossman" <jgrossman at usgs.gov>
To: <Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 3:12 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ordinary chondrites - decimal metamorphic 
grade question


The hundredths place is only defined for type 3s
that are lower than type 3.2.  This is because
there is a lot of variation in metamorphic
effects in the low end of the range, too much to
cram into just types 3.0 and 3.1.  Initially, I
define 4 new classes: 3.00, 3.05, 3.10 and 3.15
(Grossman and Brearley 2005, in
MAPS).  Subsequently Kimura, I and others have
realized that there are subtle variations that
may require more categories between 3.00 and
3.05, e.g. Semarkona as a type 3.01, as compared
with CR chondrites which are mostly type 3.00.

You do not need specialized equipment other than
an electron microprobe to determine
this.  However, with high-resolution FE-SEM
imaging, you can see structures in the metal and
olivine that also give this classification
information.  Raman spectroscopy also helps classify meteorites in this 
range.

Jeff

At 11:04 AM 12/16/2009, Matt Morgan wrote:
>Since Darryl brought up his incredible LL3.05, I have to ask how does/can 
>one classify the metamorphic grade to the to the tenths or now the 
>hundredths of a decimal? I have had some tell me this is subjective and 
>others say you need specialized equipment. Please, any researchers, 
>explain.
>
>Darryl-
>I don't mean to pick on your material, but it is a question that has been 
>nagging me for sometime and you stirred my brain!
>
>Thanks in advance!
>Matt
>----------------------
>Matt Morgan
>Mile High Meteorites
>http://www.mhmeteorites.com
>P.O. Box 151293
>Lakewood, CO 80215 USA
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Darryl Pitt <darryl at dof3.com>
>Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 10:35:38
>To: Jeff Grossman<jgrossman at usgs.gov>
>Cc: <Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ordinary chondrites - rarest to the most
>         common classes
>
>
>
>Get ready for NWA 5717.....
>
>Initially "anomalous," the classification had to be changed to
>"ungrouped" as it was too difficult to determine what it was anomalous
>to.  3.05 subtype.  More to follow....
>
>
>
>
>
>On Dec 16, 2009, at 10:26 AM, Jeff Grossman wrote:
>
> > At 09:27 AM 12/16/2009, Chladnis Heirs wrote:
> >> Indeed,
> >>
> >> it's for the first time, that I read that R-chondrites are included
> >> in the
> >> OC-group. If so, why exactly them and not the K-chondrites, the
> >> Carbonaceous
> >> from grade 3-6, the ungrouped and the enstatite chondrites too?
> >
> > I didn't say they ARE included in the OCs... I said that I thought
> > they should be. As far as I know, I am alone in this opinion.  There
> > are only two Kakangari-like chondrites, and I am not prepared to put
> > them anywhere.  I'm not sure what the rest of the question means,
> > but many ungrouped chondrites can be and are associated with a major
> > class, as in "ungrouped carbonaceous chondrite".
> >
> > jeff
> >
> >
> >>
> >> >valuable type of OC from a
> >> >scientific perspective is petrologic type 3.00-3.01
> >>
> >> Where one has to say, that it's maybe too early to say that,
> >> Because the classification with decimal places, (even with two!),
> >> is a
> >> relatively new occurrence - most classifiers seems still to prefer
> >> to use a
> >> simple "3" - so that in case, there are still a lot known type-3ers
> >> awaiting
> >> to be revisited regarding the degree of their (un)equilibration.
> >>
> >> But I agree - "Ordinary" is a somewhat misleading term,
> >> - as the ordinary chondrites have told us most about the origin and
> >> formation of the solar system, the planets and ourselves, more than
> >> any iron
> >> or any lunar rock!
> >>
> >> Keep that always in mind, if you are tempted, now in the end of the
> >> desert-era and the decreed end of meteorite finding in so many
> >> countries,
> >> with all their weird and fancy exotic types, to wrinkle your nose
> >> about the
> >> "ugly" ordinary 25$-a-kilo-chunk from NWA-wonderland!
> >> Rare as brilliants they are - and they were our beginnings!
> >>
> >> Happy holidays to all!
> >> Martin
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> >> Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> >> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von
> >> Jeff
> >> Grossman
> >> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 16. Dezember 2009 11:33
> >> An: Meteorite-list
> >> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Ordinary chondrites - rarest to the
> >> most
> >> common classes
> >>
> >> I agree with Doug... the rarest and most valuable type of OC from a
> >> scientific perspective is petrologic type 3.00-3.01, from any of the
> >> chemical groups.  Only one is known... Semarkona.  If we take a more
> >> expansive definition of "ordinary chondrite" than most of my rather
> >> conservative colleagues are normally willing to accept, I would say
> >> that
> >> the rarest group of OCs is the R chondrites (only ~100 are known and
> >> many of those are paired).  In addition, a number of unique ungrouped
> >> meteorites are OC-like.  But again, I don't know of any colleagues
> >> who
> >> agree with me that R chondrites are in the OC class. [I would say
> >> that
> >> the OC class has two clans, the H-L-LL clan and the R clan].
> >>
> >> Jeff
> >>
> >> Mexicodoug wrote:
> >> > Hi Melanie and thanks for the enthusiasm you add to the list ...
> >> >
> >> > Here's a high to low sorting of the "ordinary chondrites", for over
> >> > 32,000 meteorites:
> >> >
> >> > 22.0% L6 ("most common")
> >> > 19.9% H5
> >> > 12.9% L5
> >> > 12.3% H4
> >> > 11.5% H6
> >> > 7.8% LL5
> >> > 4.2% LL6
> >> > 3.3% L4
> >> > 2.2% H3
> >> > 2.0% L3
> >> > 0.8% LL4
> >> > 0.8% LL3
> >> > 0.1% L7
> >> > 0.1% LL7
> >> > 0.03% H7 ("least common")
> >> >
> >> > But this "common" and "rare" is a misleading label. That is a
> >> harder
> >> > question if you look too closely at the deails and consider
> >> > inhomogeneous and brecciated ordinary chondrites. That can all
> >> become
> >> > somewhat unique if you ask the right person. Then there are the
> >> motley
> >> > crew of ungrouped ordinary chondrites where it is hard to
> >> generalize.
> >> > Some may be a weak classification while others might truly be weird
> >> > ("rare").
> >> >
> >> > Just a few notes: the H7, L7, LL7 types are not widely used in the
> >> > literature and border on impact melts, so I'd take them with a
> >> grain
> >> > of salt unless someone goes postal on me in which case they are
> >> right
> >> > in whatever they say. The way I listed these, the meteorites are
> >> > counted by the lowest number and won't show up in the higher
> >> thermal
> >> > (metamorphosed) levels. In other words, for example, an LL3.8-6 is
> >> > counted with the LL3's.
> >> >
> >> > If you have a special meteorite, it can sometimes be a "rarer"
> >> type if
> >> > you start to split hairs, like H3.8 instead of just grouping it
> >> within
> >> > the H3's, but there is some degree of arbitrariness to this. The
> >> > tendency is that more virgin Solar system stuff (closer and closer
> >> > 3.00) is more special and like a holy grail ("rare" in a sense) to
> >> > some who study that - since it is more representative of the
> >> original
> >> > material before water and heat were added and did their thing. From
> >> > hat we can try to get the proof we need to work out early formation
> >> > processes and theorize on the related dynamics happening. By this
> >> > logic, and considering it is a very studied meteorite, the precious
> >> > meteorite SEMARKONA (LL3.00 or is it 3.01 :-)), a witnessed fall
> >> from
> >> > India, is rather unique being the only one with that 3.00
> >> > classification, which makes it super intact since formation and
> >> > especially interesting to experts, and most notably Dr. Jeff
> >> Grossman
> >> > who reviewed and updated its classification upon careful study.
> >> >
> >> > By another measure, the "common" ordinary chondrite, L5, Canadian
> >> > witnessed fall, VILNA, is one of those very few special meteorites
> >> > that was imaged during atmospheric entry and a precise orbit was
> >> > determined. It was not too far from Buzzard Coulee, and what
> >> makes it
> >> > even more special is that it was classified from a (although
> >> witnesses
> >> > heard pieces whizzing around) 94 milligram fragment with fusion
> >> crust.
> >> > The only other specimen found was a 48 milligram piece! This
> >> becomes a
> >> > wild anecdote of a meteorite tale when one considers that the
> >> bolide
> >> > passed directly over the only camera recording the sky for 500
> >> miles
> >> > (over 800 km) and headed for the newly constructed and world's only
> >> > UFO landing site which had been built for the Canadian Centennial
> >> > exposition in St. Paul, Alberta, where it showered sparks
> >> > ("retro-rockets" to some folks). In case you wondered, I believe
> >> the
> >> > Japanese classified on Antarctic meteorite with 10 milligrams, if
> >> you
> >> > can believe that!
> >> >
> >> > So what actually makes a meteorite rare can turn into a matter of
> >> > semantics and who you ask. Even the scale of 3 to 6 (or 7) is
> >> somewhat
> >> > arbitrary and just looks for convenient thermally changed cairns
> >> along
> >> > the path toward melting. So if we went the other way, if H, L,
> >> and LL
> >> > correspond to only three parent bodies, the frequency of the types
> >> > follows:
> >> >
> >> > H 45.0%
> >> > L 40.6%
> >> > LL 14.3%
> >> >
> >> > Hope this helps a little with that general question!
> >> >
> >> > Kind wishes,
> >> > Doug
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > From: Melanie Matthews <miss_meteorite at yahoo.ca>
> >> > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >> > Sent: Tue, Dec 15, 2009 7:01 am
> >> > Subject: [meteorite-list] Ordinary chondrites - rarest to the most
> >> > common classes
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > G'mornin' listites,,
> >> > What is the least common type of ordinary chondrite, as well as the
> >> > most common?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Thanks
> >> > -----------
> >> > Melanie
> >> > IMCA: 2975
> >> > eBay: metmel2775
> >> > Known on SkyRock Cafe as SpaceCollector09
> >> >
> >> > Unclassified meteorites are like a box of chocolates... you never
> >> know
> >> > what
> >> > you're gonna get!
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >__________________________________________________________________
> >> > Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr!
> >> >
> >> > http://www.flickr.com/gift/
> >> >
> >> >______________________________________________
> >> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> >> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> >> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >> >
> >> >______________________________________________
> >> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> >> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> >> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman       phone: (703) 648-6184
> >> US Geological Survey          fax:   (703) 648-6383
> >> 954 National Center
> >> Reston, VA 20192, USA
> >>
> >>
> >>______________________________________________
> >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> >> Meteorite-list mailing list
> >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >>
> >>______________________________________________
> >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> >> Meteorite-list mailing list
> >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >
> > Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman       phone: (703) 648-6184
> > US Geological Survey          fax:   (703) 648-6383
> > 954 National Center
> > Reston, VA 20192, USA
> >
> >
> >______________________________________________
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>______________________________________________
>http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>Meteorite-list mailing list
>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman       phone: (703) 648-6184
US Geological Survey          fax:   (703) 648-6383
954 National Center
Reston, VA 20192, USA


______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list




From jgrossman at usgs.gov  Thu Dec 17 05:50:09 2009
From: jgrossman at usgs.gov (Jeff Grossman)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 05:50:09 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Ordinary chondrites - decimal metamorphic
 grade question
In-Reply-To: <BE7A2D5D97234A95A46DD906A4A10773@JeffPC>
References: <846731.54222.qm@web114007.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<8CC4C47FAE1051B-1B34-2687@webmail-m067.sysops.aol.com>
	<4B28B75D.2000406@usgs.gov>
	<004601ca7e5b$ea29eba0$07b22959@name86d88d87e2>
	<OFD810B48C.266EF23D-ON0525768E.0054D395@usgs.gov>
	<387D6E36-A1A6-44BF-9824-C3C54810E62E@dof3.com>
	<1007140231-1260979442-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-413127853-@bda667.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
	<OFF92335D7.0ECAE30D-ON0525768E.00590DEE@usgs.gov>
	<BE7A2D5D97234A95A46DD906A4A10773@JeffPC>
Message-ID: <OFFB6954EB.0675413E-ON0525768F.003B8C01@usgs.gov>

Types 2 and 3 are describing two different 
parameters.  Type 2 (and 1) means that a 
meteorite has experienced aqueous 
alteration.  Because such effects are prominent 
in the CI, CM and CR groups, nearly all of them 
are traditionally (since the 1960s) described as 
types 1 and 2.  Types 3-6 are traditionally used 
to describe metamorphic effects in chondrite 
groups where thermal processing has been 
important, such as CO, CV, CK, OCs, ECs, 
etc.  Although most meteorites in the first list 
above are hydrated but unmetamorphosed and most 
meteorites in the second list are metamorphosed 
but unhydrated, there is crossover that leaves us 
without an adequate vocabulary to describe.  Some 
CM and related chondrites have been heated to 
levels similar to a type 3.2 chondrite, yet they 
are still called type 2 due to alteration.  Some 
low-type-3 ordinary and CV chondrites have 
hydrated phases and Ni-bearing sulfides like a 
type 2 chondrite might, yet they are called type 
3.0 to distinguish them from more-heated group members.

So, when I say that most CR chondrites are type 
3.00, I mean that their thermal histories are 
similar to those of type 3.00 ordinary or CO 
chondrites; they have never gotten very hot for 
very long.  But most CR chondrites are ALSO type 
2.  Most CM chondrites are type 2 (alteration) 
AND type 3.00 (metamorphism). But somehow, 
alteration trumps metamorphism for carbonaceous 
chondrites and nobody calls them type 3.00 even 
thought this describes them well. Strangely, when 
a CR chondrite lacks alteration, many people are 
happy to call it type 3 (e.g., MET 00426).  But 
when an ordinary chondrite is hydrated, nobody 
would ever think of calling it type 2 (e.g., Semarkona).

This is called a lousy nomenclature system.

jeff g.

At 05:25 AM 12/17/2009, Jeff Kuyken wrote:
>Hi Jeff,
>
>Inrteresting stuff indeed. One thing just caught 
>my attention though. You mentioned that "CR 
>chondrites which are mostly type 3.00" which I 
>have not heard of before. The Met Bull lists 
>nearly all as CR2, some as just CR and an odd 
>CR1. My crude understanding of type-2 vs type-3 
>is that type-2 never received thermal alteration 
>whereas type-3 is where that starts. Am I wrong there?
>
>So would CR3.00 tell us that the particular 
>meteorite in question did not go through any 
>thermal metamorphism? How would that vary from CR2?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Jeff
>
>
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Grossman" <jgrossman at usgs.gov>
>To: <Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 3:12 AM
>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ordinary 
>chondrites - decimal metamorphic grade question
>
>
>The hundredths place is only defined for type 3s
>that are lower than type 3.2.  This is because
>there is a lot of variation in metamorphic
>effects in the low end of the range, too much to
>cram into just types 3.0 and 3.1.  Initially, I
>define 4 new classes: 3.00, 3.05, 3.10 and 3.15
>(Grossman and Brearley 2005, in
>MAPS).  Subsequently Kimura, I and others have
>realized that there are subtle variations that
>may require more categories between 3.00 and
>3.05, e.g. Semarkona as a type 3.01, as compared
>with CR chondrites which are mostly type 3.00.
>
>You do not need specialized equipment other than
>an electron microprobe to determine
>this.  However, with high-resolution FE-SEM
>imaging, you can see structures in the metal and
>olivine that also give this classification
>information.  Raman spectroscopy also helps classify meteorites in this range.
>
>Jeff
>
>At 11:04 AM 12/16/2009, Matt Morgan wrote:
>>Since Darryl brought up his incredible LL3.05, 
>>I have to ask how does/can one classify the 
>>metamorphic grade to the to the tenths or now 
>>the hundredths of a decimal? I have had some 
>>tell me this is subjective and others say you 
>>need specialized equipment. Please, any researchers, explain.
>>
>>Darryl-
>>I don't mean to pick on your material, but it 
>>is a question that has been nagging me for sometime and you stirred my brain!
>>
>>Thanks in advance!
>>Matt
>>----------------------
>>Matt Morgan
>>Mile High Meteorites
>>http://www.mhmeteorites.com
>>P.O. Box 151293
>>Lakewood, CO 80215 USA
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Darryl Pitt <darryl at dof3.com>
>>Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 10:35:38
>>To: Jeff Grossman<jgrossman at usgs.gov>
>>Cc: <Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ordinary chondrites - rarest to the most
>>         common classes
>>
>>
>>
>>Get ready for NWA 5717.....
>>
>>Initially "anomalous," the classification had to be changed to
>>"ungrouped" as it was too difficult to determine what it was anomalous
>>to.  3.05 subtype.  More to follow....
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>On Dec 16, 2009, at 10:26 AM, Jeff Grossman wrote:
>>
>> > At 09:27 AM 12/16/2009, Chladnis Heirs wrote:
>> >> Indeed,
>> >>
>> >> it's for the first time, that I read that R-chondrites are included
>> >> in the
>> >> OC-group. If so, why exactly them and not the K-chondrites, the
>> >> Carbonaceous
>> >> from grade 3-6, the ungrouped and the enstatite chondrites too?
>> >
>> > I didn't say they ARE included in the OCs... I said that I thought
>> > they should be. As far as I know, I am alone in this opinion.  There
>> > are only two Kakangari-like chondrites, and I am not prepared to put
>> > them anywhere.  I'm not sure what the rest of the question means,
>> > but many ungrouped chondrites can be and are associated with a major
>> > class, as in "ungrouped carbonaceous chondrite".
>> >
>> > jeff
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >> >valuable type of OC from a
>> >> >scientific perspective is petrologic type 3.00-3.01
>> >>
>> >> Where one has to say, that it's maybe too early to say that,
>> >> Because the classification with decimal places, (even with two!),
>> >> is a
>> >> relatively new occurrence - most classifiers seems still to prefer
>> >> to use a
>> >> simple "3" - so that in case, there are still a lot known type-3ers
>> >> awaiting
>> >> to be revisited regarding the degree of their (un)equilibration.
>> >>
>> >> But I agree - "Ordinary" is a somewhat misleading term,
>> >> - as the ordinary chondrites have told us most about the origin and
>> >> formation of the solar system, the planets and ourselves, more than
>> >> any iron
>> >> or any lunar rock!
>> >>
>> >> Keep that always in mind, if you are tempted, now in the end of the
>> >> desert-era and the decreed end of meteorite finding in so many
>> >> countries,
>> >> with all their weird and fancy exotic types, to wrinkle your nose
>> >> about the
>> >> "ugly" ordinary 25$-a-kilo-chunk from NWA-wonderland!
>> >> Rare as brilliants they are - and they were our beginnings!
>> >>
>> >> Happy holidays to all!
>> >> Martin
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
>> >> Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
>> >> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von
>> >> Jeff
>> >> Grossman
>> >> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 16. Dezember 2009 11:33
>> >> An: Meteorite-list
>> >> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Ordinary chondrites - rarest to the
>> >> most
>> >> common classes
>> >>
>> >> I agree with Doug... the rarest and most valuable type of OC from a
>> >> scientific perspective is petrologic type 3.00-3.01, from any of the
>> >> chemical groups.  Only one is known... Semarkona.  If we take a more
>> >> expansive definition of "ordinary chondrite" than most of my rather
>> >> conservative colleagues are normally willing to accept, I would say
>> >> that
>> >> the rarest group of OCs is the R chondrites (only ~100 are known and
>> >> many of those are paired).  In addition, a number of unique ungrouped
>> >> meteorites are OC-like.  But again, I don't know of any colleagues
>> >> who
>> >> agree with me that R chondrites are in the OC class. [I would say
>> >> that
>> >> the OC class has two clans, the H-L-LL clan and the R clan].
>> >>
>> >> Jeff
>> >>
>> >> Mexicodoug wrote:
>> >> > Hi Melanie and thanks for the enthusiasm you add to the list ...
>> >> >
>> >> > Here's a high to low sorting of the "ordinary chondrites", for over
>> >> > 32,000 meteorites:
>> >> >
>> >> > 22.0% L6 ("most common")
>> >> > 19.9% H5
>> >> > 12.9% L5
>> >> > 12.3% H4
>> >> > 11.5% H6
>> >> > 7.8% LL5
>> >> > 4.2% LL6
>> >> > 3.3% L4
>> >> > 2.2% H3
>> >> > 2.0% L3
>> >> > 0.8% LL4
>> >> > 0.8% LL3
>> >> > 0.1% L7
>> >> > 0.1% LL7
>> >> > 0.03% H7 ("least common")
>> >> >
>> >> > But this "common" and "rare" is a misleading label. That is a
>> >> harder
>> >> > question if you look too closely at the deails and consider
>> >> > inhomogeneous and brecciated ordinary chondrites. That can all
>> >> become
>> >> > somewhat unique if you ask the right person. Then there are the
>> >> motley
>> >> > crew of ungrouped ordinary chondrites where it is hard to
>> >> generalize.
>> >> > Some may be a weak classification while others might truly be weird
>> >> > ("rare").
>> >> >
>> >> > Just a few notes: the H7, L7, LL7 types are not widely used in the
>> >> > literature and border on impact melts, so I'd take them with a
>> >> grain
>> >> > of salt unless someone goes postal on me in which case they are
>> >> right
>> >> > in whatever they say. The way I listed these, the meteorites are
>> >> > counted by the lowest number and won't show up in the higher
>> >> thermal
>> >> > (metamorphosed) levels. In other words, for example, an LL3.8-6 is
>> >> > counted with the LL3's.
>> >> >
>> >> > If you have a special meteorite, it can sometimes be a "rarer"
>> >> type if
>> >> > you start to split hairs, like H3.8 instead of just grouping it
>> >> within
>> >> > the H3's, but there is some degree of arbitrariness to this. The
>> >> > tendency is that more virgin Solar system stuff (closer and closer
>> >> > 3.00) is more special and like a holy grail ("rare" in a sense) to
>> >> > some who study that - since it is more representative of the
>> >> original
>> >> > material before water and heat were added and did their thing. From
>> >> > hat we can try to get the proof we need to work out early formation
>> >> > processes and theorize on the related dynamics happening. By this
>> >> > logic, and considering it is a very studied meteorite, the precious
>> >> > meteorite SEMARKONA (LL3.00 or is it 3.01 :-)), a witnessed fall
>> >> from
>> >> > India, is rather unique being the only one with that 3.00
>> >> > classification, which makes it super intact since formation and
>> >> > especially interesting to experts, and most notably Dr. Jeff
>> >> Grossman
>> >> > who reviewed and updated its classification upon careful study.
>> >> >
>> >> > By another measure, the "common" ordinary chondrite, L5, Canadian
>> >> > witnessed fall, VILNA, is one of those very few special meteorites
>> >> > that was imaged during atmospheric entry and a precise orbit was
>> >> > determined. It was not too far from Buzzard Coulee, and what
>> >> makes it
>> >> > even more special is that it was classified from a (although
>> >> witnesses
>> >> > heard pieces whizzing around) 94 milligram fragment with fusion
>> >> crust.
>> >> > The only other specimen found was a 48 milligram piece! This
>> >> becomes a
>> >> > wild anecdote of a meteorite tale when one considers that the
>> >> bolide
>> >> > passed directly over the only camera recording the sky for 500
>> >> miles
>> >> > (over 800 km) and headed for the newly constructed and world's only
>> >> > UFO landing site which had been built for the Canadian Centennial
>> >> > exposition in St. Paul, Alberta, where it showered sparks
>> >> > ("retro-rockets" to some folks). In case you wondered, I believe
>> >> the
>> >> > Japanese classified on Antarctic meteorite with 10 milligrams, if
>> >> you
>> >> > can believe that!
>> >> >
>> >> > So what actually makes a meteorite rare can turn into a matter of
>> >> > semantics and who you ask. Even the scale of 3 to 6 (or 7) is
>> >> somewhat
>> >> > arbitrary and just looks for convenient thermally changed cairns
>> >> along
>> >> > the path toward melting. So if we went the other way, if H, L,
>> >> and LL
>> >> > correspond to only three parent bodies, the frequency of the types
>> >> > follows:
>> >> >
>> >> > H 45.0%
>> >> > L 40.6%
>> >> > LL 14.3%
>> >> >
>> >> > Hope this helps a little with that general question!
>> >> >
>> >> > Kind wishes,
>> >> > Doug
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > -----Original Message-----
>> >> > From: Melanie Matthews <miss_meteorite at yahoo.ca>
>> >> > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> >> > Sent: Tue, Dec 15, 2009 7:01 am
>> >> > Subject: [meteorite-list] Ordinary chondrites - rarest to the most
>> >> > common classes
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > G'mornin' listites,,
>> >> > What is the least common type of ordinary chondrite, as well as the
>> >> > most common?
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Thanks
>> >> > -----------
>> >> > Melanie
>> >> > IMCA: 2975
>> >> > eBay: metmel2775
>> >> > Known on SkyRock Cafe as SpaceCollector09
>> >> >
>> >> > Unclassified meteorites are like a box of chocolates... you never
>> >> know
>> >> > what
>> >> > you're gonna get!
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >__________________________________________________________________
>> >> > Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr!
>> >> >
>> >> > http://www.flickr.com/gift/
>> >> >
>> >> >______________________________________________
>> >> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> >> > Meteorite-list mailing list
>> >> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> >> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> >> >
>> >> >______________________________________________
>> >> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> >> > Meteorite-list mailing list
>> >> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> >> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman       phone: (703) 648-6184
>> >> US Geological Survey          fax:   (703) 648-6383
>> >> 954 National Center
>> >> Reston, VA 20192, USA
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>______________________________________________
>> >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> >> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> >>
>> >>______________________________________________
>> >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> >> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> >
>> > Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman       phone: (703) 648-6184
>> > US Geological Survey          fax:   (703) 648-6383
>> > 954 National Center
>> > Reston, VA 20192, USA
>> >
>> >
>> >______________________________________________
>> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> > Meteorite-list mailing list
>> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>>______________________________________________
>>http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>Meteorite-list mailing list
>>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman       phone: (703) 648-6184
>US Geological Survey          fax:   (703) 648-6383
>954 National Center
>Reston, VA 20192, USA
>
>
>______________________________________________
>http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>Meteorite-list mailing list
>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>

Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman       phone: (703) 648-6184
US Geological Survey          fax:   (703) 648-6383
954 National Center
Reston, VA 20192, USA




From parkforestmet at hotmail.com  Thu Dec 17 05:54:57 2009
From: parkforestmet at hotmail.com (bill kies)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 04:54:57 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Joe's meteorwrongs
In-Reply-To: <424270.23857.qm@web36905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <424270.23857.qm@web36905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <SNT102-W17DD1CC4F30D8024B962D2A2860@phx.gbl>


Illinois has a very interesting geologic past. Considering it's glacial history nothing that turns up is all that surprising.
 
Bill

 
> Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 17:25:50 -0800
> From: epgrondine at yahoo.com
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Joe's meteorwrongs
> 
> Hi all - 
> 
> These really had me fooled as well, and given my stroke damage hearing your comments on them makes me feel a whole lot better. 
> 
> Other baffling aspects of these:
> 1) The pieces looked like impact shrapnel
> 2) They were found on the plains of Illinois, with no similar rocks anywhere around.
> 
> So what are they then, how did they end up in pieces, and how the hell did they get there?
> 
> Oh well. Joe, there's plenty more fields to detect.
> 
> E.P.
> 
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft?s powerful SPAM protection.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141664/direct/01/

From info at meteorites.com.au  Thu Dec 17 06:01:09 2009
From: info at meteorites.com.au (Jeff Kuyken)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 22:01:09 +1100
Subject: [meteorite-list] Photos of the Piatek Collection
In-Reply-To: <BE7A2D5D97234A95A46DD906A4A10773@JeffPC>
References: <846731.54222.qm@web114007.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><8CC4C47FAE1051B-1B34-2687@webmail-m067.sysops.aol.com><4B28B75D.2000406@usgs.gov><004601ca7e5b$ea29eba0$07b22959@name86d88d87e2><OFD810B48C.266EF23D-ON0525768E.0054D395@usgs.gov><387D6E36-A1A6-44BF-9824-C3C54810E62E@dof3.com><1007140231-1260979442-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-413127853-@bda667.bisx.prod.on.blackberry><OFF92335D7.0ECAE30D-ON0525768E.00590DEE@usgs.gov>
	<BE7A2D5D97234A95A46DD906A4A10773@JeffPC>
Message-ID: <1742E57B5929432D9ED0C0711C41D862@JeffPC>

Hi List,

I was speaking to Jay Piatek yesterday and he has just done an update of his 
collection photos. If you haven't seen them before, do yourself a favour and 
have a look. There are some rare and beautiful specimens there not to 
mention what is likely the most thorough Pallasite collection in the world.

http://picasaweb.google.com/jaypiatek

Cheers,

Jeff




From darryl at dof3.com  Thu Dec 17 08:11:12 2009
From: darryl at dof3.com (Darryl Pitt)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 08:11:12 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Willamette
In-Reply-To: <949542.20353.qm@web33204.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <949542.20353.qm@web33204.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <43DE53F7-1922-4B69-A906-033FC364E4F0@dof3.com>



Hi Steve,

I think I understand your point, but please consider....

--No one has ever been sued for possession of a piece of the  
Willamette meteorite;
--No one has ever been threatened with a lawsuit for possession or  
sale of a portion of the Willamette meteorite;
--There were several sales of Willamette specimens in the past several  
years which were widely covered by the media, and the Grand Ronde  
never sued anyone or threatened to sue anyone. Moreover, the GR  
published statements that they would not engage in or consider such  
lawsuits;

If there is one meteorite you own where you can sleep at night knowing  
you're not going to be sued---it's Willamette.


All the best /  Darryl





On Dec 17, 2009, at 3:54 AM, Steve Dunklee wrote:

> if you own any Willamette at all prepair to be sued. They are not  
> interested in the few thousands of dollars they may get from the  
> meteorite. What the Lawers want is the Tens of thousands of dollars  
> in legal fees.
>
>
>> E.P.,
>> Steve's note does not address or resolve a single one of
>> the issues I
>> brought up, and only gives a possible explanation for why
>> the tribe
>> didn't *purchase* a specimen from Matt or Darryl; and since
>> Matt
>> offered to donate one to them, this still seems a poor
>> explanation.  I
>> didn't address this issue/question in my email, so, no,
>> this clarifies
>> nothing.
>> Jason
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 7:43 AM, E.P. Grondine <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>> Hi Steve -
>>>
>>> You may have it, what the GR lawyers and leaders are
>> thinking. In any case, the AMNH left Darryl hanging in the
>> wind, AS WELL AS ANY FUTURE PURCHASERS.
>>>
>>> PS - Jason, I hope Steve's explanation makes this
>> clearer to you.
>>>
>>> I also hope an honorable and acceptable way out
>> appears. I hope the AMNH steps up to the plate.
>>>
>>> E.P. Grondine
>>> Man and Impact in the Americas
>>>
>>> --- On Fri, 12/11/09, Steve Dunklee <sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> From: Steve Dunklee <sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Willamette
>>>> Date: Friday, December 11, 2009, 3:37 AM
>>>
>>>> The GR most likely did not respond
>>>> due to the nature of the current legal process. I
>> would
>>>> compare it to buying your stolen item from a pawn
>> shop. the
>>>> pawn shop did not know the item was hot and made a
>> legal
>>>> purchase. which would also place a monetary value
>> on the
>>>> main mass. They can not buy a piece without
>> putting thier
>>>> claim to the main mass in jeopardy. there may also
>> be a gag
>>>> order in the case by the Judge which would prevent
>> them from
>>>> responding.
>>>
>>>> instead of trying to have the GR buy the piece it
>>>> should be returned to the seller with a request
>> for a
>>>> refund, as the original sale/trade was illegal.
>>>
>>>> its like sayinmg to them "hey i just bought your
>> stolen car! would you like to buy it back?"
>>>
>>>> have a great day
>>>> Steve
>>>>
>>>> --- On Thu, 12/10/09, E.P. Grondine <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> From: E.P. Grondine <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Willamette
>>>>> To: mail at mhmeteorites.com,
>>>> meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com,
>>>> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com,
>>>> countdeiro at earthlink.net
>>>>> Date: Thursday, December 10, 2009, 9:29 AM
>>>>> Matt -
>>>>>
>>>>> Just my opinion but it is likely that the
>> slicing was
>>>> a
>>>>> further desecration in their view, so their
>> lack of
>>>> response
>>>>> comes as no surprise.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't think Count Deiro's advice is very
>> good. I
>>>> would
>>>>> suggest contacting them again - perhaps parts
>> of the
>>>> slice
>>>>> could be used by them in an appropriate
>> manner.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ed
>>>>>
>>>>> --- On Wed, 12/9/09, countdeiro at earthlink.net
>>>>> <countdeiro at earthlink.net>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> From: countdeiro at earthlink.net
>>>>> <countdeiro at earthlink.net>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list]
>> Willamette
>>>>>> To: mail at mhmeteorites.com,
>>>>> "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine at yahoo.com>,
>>>>> meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com,
>>>>> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>>> Date: Wednesday, December 9, 2009, 11:11
>> PM
>>>>>> The Grand Ronde band of American
>>>>>> Indians own the largest and most
>> profitable
>>>>> hotel/casino in
>>>>>> Oregon. Anybody who is at least 1/8th GR
>> gets a
>>>>> percentage
>>>>>> every month . I wouldn't bother either.
>>>>>> Count Deiro
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: Matt Morgan <mail at mhmeteorites.com>
>>>>>>> Sent: Dec 9, 2009 11:04 PM
>>>>>>> To: "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine at yahoo.com>,
>>>>>> meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com,
>>>>>> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list]
>> Willamette
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> FYI, I offered the GR a generous
>> slice of my
>>>>> Willamette
>>>>>> and they didn't even respond to me.  If
>> I were
>>>>> Darryl,
>>>>>> I wouldn't even bother.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Matt Morgan
>>>>>>> ------Original Message------
>>>>>>> From: E.P. Grondine
>>>>>>> Sender: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list]
>> Willamette
>>>>>>> Sent: Dec 9, 2009 8:44 PM
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Darryl -
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> May I suggest to you that perhaps it
>> would be
>>>> best
>>>>> to
>>>>>> find a buyer for the Willamette piece
>> who wanted
>>>> a tax
>>>>> write
>>>>>> off for gifting it back to the Grand
>> Ronde
>>>> peoples? I
>>>>> don't
>>>>>> know their financial situation, or
>> plans, but I
>>>> would
>>>>>> suggest contacting their elders as well
>> before
>>>> doing
>>>>>> anything.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> E.P. Grondine
>>>>>>> Man and Impact in the Americas
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----------------------
>>>>>>> Matt Morgan
>>>>>>> Mile High Meteorites
>>>>>>> http://www.mhmeteorites.com
>>>>>>> P.O. Box 151293
>>>>>>> Lakewood, CO 80215 USA
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>> ______________________________________________
>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From darryl at dof3.com  Thu Dec 17 08:19:33 2009
From: darryl at dof3.com (Darryl Pitt)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 08:19:33 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Ordinary chondrites - decimal metamorphic
	grade question
In-Reply-To: <OFFB6954EB.0675413E-ON0525768F.003B8C01@usgs.gov>
References: <846731.54222.qm@web114007.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<8CC4C47FAE1051B-1B34-2687@webmail-m067.sysops.aol.com>
	<4B28B75D.2000406@usgs.gov>
	<004601ca7e5b$ea29eba0$07b22959@name86d88d87e2>
	<OFD810B48C.266EF23D-ON0525768E.0054D395@usgs.gov>
	<387D6E36-A1A6-44BF-9824-C3C54810E62E@dof3.com>
	<1007140231-1260979442-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-413127853-@bda667.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
	<OFF92335D7.0ECAE30D-ON0525768E.00590DEE@usgs.gov>
	<BE7A2D5D97234A95A46DD906A4A10773@JeffPC>
	<OFFB6954EB.0675413E-ON0525768F.003B8C01@usgs.gov>
Message-ID: <B3291016-794B-4A66-82D4-A9C50D5A58BD@dof3.com>



Good Morning,

Thank you so much for this!   Finally get the nuances...


Darryl



On Dec 17, 2009, at 5:50 AM, Jeff Grossman wrote:

> Types 2 and 3 are describing two different parameters.  Type 2 (and  
> 1) means that a meteorite has experienced aqueous alteration.   
> Because such effects are prominent in the CI, CM and CR groups,  
> nearly all of them are traditionally (since the 1960s) described as  
> types 1 and 2.  Types 3-6 are traditionally used to describe  
> metamorphic effects in chondrite groups where thermal processing has  
> been important, such as CO, CV, CK, OCs, ECs, etc.  Although most  
> meteorites in the first list above are hydrated but unmetamorphosed  
> and most meteorites in the second list are metamorphosed but  
> unhydrated, there is crossover that leaves us without an adequate  
> vocabulary to describe.  Some CM and related chondrites have been  
> heated to levels similar to a type 3.2 chondrite, yet they are still  
> called type 2 due to alteration.  Some low-type-3 ordinary and CV  
> chondrites have hydrated phases and Ni-bearing sulfides like a type  
> 2 chondrite might, yet they are called type 3.0 to distinguish them  
> from more-heated group members.
>
> So, when I say that most CR chondrites are type 3.00, I mean that  
> their thermal histories are similar to those of type 3.00 ordinary  
> or CO chondrites; they have never gotten very hot for very long.   
> But most CR chondrites are ALSO type 2.  Most CM chondrites are type  
> 2 (alteration) AND type 3.00 (metamorphism). But somehow, alteration  
> trumps metamorphism for carbonaceous chondrites and nobody calls  
> them type 3.00 even thought this describes them well. Strangely,  
> when a CR chondrite lacks alteration, many people are happy to call  
> it type 3 (e.g., MET 00426).  But when an ordinary chondrite is  
> hydrated, nobody would ever think of calling it type 2 (e.g.,  
> Semarkona).
>
> This is called a lousy nomenclature system.
>
> jeff g.
>
> At 05:25 AM 12/17/2009, Jeff Kuyken wrote:
>> Hi Jeff,
>>
>> Inrteresting stuff indeed. One thing just caught my attention  
>> though. You mentioned that "CR chondrites which are mostly type  
>> 3.00" which I have not heard of before. The Met Bull lists nearly  
>> all as CR2, some as just CR and an odd CR1. My crude understanding  
>> of type-2 vs type-3 is that type-2 never received thermal  
>> alteration whereas type-3 is where that starts. Am I wrong there?
>>
>> So would CR3.00 tell us that the particular meteorite in question  
>> did not go through any thermal metamorphism? How would that vary  
>> from CR2?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Grossman" <jgrossman at usgs.gov 
>> >
>> To: <Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 3:12 AM
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ordinary chondrites - decimal  
>> metamorphic grade question
>>
>>
>> The hundredths place is only defined for type 3s
>> that are lower than type 3.2.  This is because
>> there is a lot of variation in metamorphic
>> effects in the low end of the range, too much to
>> cram into just types 3.0 and 3.1.  Initially, I
>> define 4 new classes: 3.00, 3.05, 3.10 and 3.15
>> (Grossman and Brearley 2005, in
>> MAPS).  Subsequently Kimura, I and others have
>> realized that there are subtle variations that
>> may require more categories between 3.00 and
>> 3.05, e.g. Semarkona as a type 3.01, as compared
>> with CR chondrites which are mostly type 3.00.
>>
>> You do not need specialized equipment other than
>> an electron microprobe to determine
>> this.  However, with high-resolution FE-SEM
>> imaging, you can see structures in the metal and
>> olivine that also give this classification
>> information.  Raman spectroscopy also helps classify meteorites in  
>> this range.
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>> At 11:04 AM 12/16/2009, Matt Morgan wrote:
>>> Since Darryl brought up his incredible LL3.05, I have to ask how  
>>> does/can one classify the metamorphic grade to the to the tenths  
>>> or now the hundredths of a decimal? I have had some tell me this  
>>> is subjective and others say you need specialized equipment.  
>>> Please, any researchers, explain.
>>>
>>> Darryl-
>>> I don't mean to pick on your material, but it is a question that  
>>> has been nagging me for sometime and you stirred my brain!
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance!
>>> Matt
>>> ----------------------
>>> Matt Morgan
>>> Mile High Meteorites
>>> http://www.mhmeteorites.com
>>> P.O. Box 151293
>>> Lakewood, CO 80215 USA
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Darryl Pitt <darryl at dof3.com>
>>> Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 10:35:38
>>> To: Jeff Grossman<jgrossman at usgs.gov>
>>> Cc: <Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ordinary chondrites - rarest to the  
>>> most
>>>        common classes
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Get ready for NWA 5717.....
>>>
>>> Initially "anomalous," the classification had to be changed to
>>> "ungrouped" as it was too difficult to determine what it was  
>>> anomalous
>>> to.  3.05 subtype.  More to follow....
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Dec 16, 2009, at 10:26 AM, Jeff Grossman wrote:
>>>
>>> > At 09:27 AM 12/16/2009, Chladnis Heirs wrote:
>>> >> Indeed,
>>> >>
>>> >> it's for the first time, that I read that R-chondrites are  
>>> included
>>> >> in the
>>> >> OC-group. If so, why exactly them and not the K-chondrites, the
>>> >> Carbonaceous
>>> >> from grade 3-6, the ungrouped and the enstatite chondrites too?
>>> >
>>> > I didn't say they ARE included in the OCs... I said that I thought
>>> > they should be. As far as I know, I am alone in this opinion.   
>>> There
>>> > are only two Kakangari-like chondrites, and I am not prepared to  
>>> put
>>> > them anywhere.  I'm not sure what the rest of the question means,
>>> > but many ungrouped chondrites can be and are associated with a  
>>> major
>>> > class, as in "ungrouped carbonaceous chondrite".
>>> >
>>> > jeff
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >>
>>> >> >valuable type of OC from a
>>> >> >scientific perspective is petrologic type 3.00-3.01
>>> >>
>>> >> Where one has to say, that it's maybe too early to say that,
>>> >> Because the classification with decimal places, (even with two!),
>>> >> is a
>>> >> relatively new occurrence - most classifiers seems still to  
>>> prefer
>>> >> to use a
>>> >> simple "3" - so that in case, there are still a lot known  
>>> type-3ers
>>> >> awaiting
>>> >> to be revisited regarding the degree of their (un)equilibration.
>>> >>
>>> >> But I agree - "Ordinary" is a somewhat misleading term,
>>> >> - as the ordinary chondrites have told us most about the origin  
>>> and
>>> >> formation of the solar system, the planets and ourselves, more  
>>> than
>>> >> any iron
>>> >> or any lunar rock!
>>> >>
>>> >> Keep that always in mind, if you are tempted, now in the end of  
>>> the
>>> >> desert-era and the decreed end of meteorite finding in so many
>>> >> countries,
>>> >> with all their weird and fancy exotic types, to wrinkle your nose
>>> >> about the
>>> >> "ugly" ordinary 25$-a-kilo-chunk from NWA-wonderland!
>>> >> Rare as brilliants they are - and they were our beginnings!
>>> >>
>>> >> Happy holidays to all!
>>> >> Martin
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
>>> >> Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
>>> >> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag  
>>> von
>>> >> Jeff
>>> >> Grossman
>>> >> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 16. Dezember 2009 11:33
>>> >> An: Meteorite-list
>>> >> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Ordinary chondrites - rarest to the
>>> >> most
>>> >> common classes
>>> >>
>>> >> I agree with Doug... the rarest and most valuable type of OC  
>>> from a
>>> >> scientific perspective is petrologic type 3.00-3.01, from any  
>>> of the
>>> >> chemical groups.  Only one is known... Semarkona.  If we take a  
>>> more
>>> >> expansive definition of "ordinary chondrite" than most of my  
>>> rather
>>> >> conservative colleagues are normally willing to accept, I would  
>>> say
>>> >> that
>>> >> the rarest group of OCs is the R chondrites (only ~100 are  
>>> known and
>>> >> many of those are paired).  In addition, a number of unique  
>>> ungrouped
>>> >> meteorites are OC-like.  But again, I don't know of any  
>>> colleagues
>>> >> who
>>> >> agree with me that R chondrites are in the OC class. [I would say
>>> >> that
>>> >> the OC class has two clans, the H-L-LL clan and the R clan].
>>> >>
>>> >> Jeff
>>> >>
>>> >> Mexicodoug wrote:
>>> >> > Hi Melanie and thanks for the enthusiasm you add to the  
>>> list ...
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Here's a high to low sorting of the "ordinary chondrites",  
>>> for over
>>> >> > 32,000 meteorites:
>>> >> >
>>> >> > 22.0% L6 ("most common")
>>> >> > 19.9% H5
>>> >> > 12.9% L5
>>> >> > 12.3% H4
>>> >> > 11.5% H6
>>> >> > 7.8% LL5
>>> >> > 4.2% LL6
>>> >> > 3.3% L4
>>> >> > 2.2% H3
>>> >> > 2.0% L3
>>> >> > 0.8% LL4
>>> >> > 0.8% LL3
>>> >> > 0.1% L7
>>> >> > 0.1% LL7
>>> >> > 0.03% H7 ("least common")
>>> >> >
>>> >> > But this "common" and "rare" is a misleading label. That is a
>>> >> harder
>>> >> > question if you look too closely at the deails and consider
>>> >> > inhomogeneous and brecciated ordinary chondrites. That can all
>>> >> become
>>> >> > somewhat unique if you ask the right person. Then there are the
>>> >> motley
>>> >> > crew of ungrouped ordinary chondrites where it is hard to
>>> >> generalize.
>>> >> > Some may be a weak classification while others might truly be  
>>> weird
>>> >> > ("rare").
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Just a few notes: the H7, L7, LL7 types are not widely used  
>>> in the
>>> >> > literature and border on impact melts, so I'd take them with a
>>> >> grain
>>> >> > of salt unless someone goes postal on me in which case they are
>>> >> right
>>> >> > in whatever they say. The way I listed these, the meteorites  
>>> are
>>> >> > counted by the lowest number and won't show up in the higher
>>> >> thermal
>>> >> > (metamorphosed) levels. In other words, for example, an  
>>> LL3.8-6 is
>>> >> > counted with the LL3's.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > If you have a special meteorite, it can sometimes be a "rarer"
>>> >> type if
>>> >> > you start to split hairs, like H3.8 instead of just grouping it
>>> >> within
>>> >> > the H3's, but there is some degree of arbitrariness to this.  
>>> The
>>> >> > tendency is that more virgin Solar system stuff (closer and  
>>> closer
>>> >> > 3.00) is more special and like a holy grail ("rare" in a  
>>> sense) to
>>> >> > some who study that - since it is more representative of the
>>> >> original
>>> >> > material before water and heat were added and did their  
>>> thing. From
>>> >> > hat we can try to get the proof we need to work out early  
>>> formation
>>> >> > processes and theorize on the related dynamics happening. By  
>>> this
>>> >> > logic, and considering it is a very studied meteorite, the  
>>> precious
>>> >> > meteorite SEMARKONA (LL3.00 or is it 3.01 :-)), a witnessed  
>>> fall
>>> >> from
>>> >> > India, is rather unique being the only one with that 3.00
>>> >> > classification, which makes it super intact since formation and
>>> >> > especially interesting to experts, and most notably Dr. Jeff
>>> >> Grossman
>>> >> > who reviewed and updated its classification upon careful study.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > By another measure, the "common" ordinary chondrite, L5,  
>>> Canadian
>>> >> > witnessed fall, VILNA, is one of those very few special  
>>> meteorites
>>> >> > that was imaged during atmospheric entry and a precise orbit  
>>> was
>>> >> > determined. It was not too far from Buzzard Coulee, and what
>>> >> makes it
>>> >> > even more special is that it was classified from a (although
>>> >> witnesses
>>> >> > heard pieces whizzing around) 94 milligram fragment with fusion
>>> >> crust.
>>> >> > The only other specimen found was a 48 milligram piece! This
>>> >> becomes a
>>> >> > wild anecdote of a meteorite tale when one considers that the
>>> >> bolide
>>> >> > passed directly over the only camera recording the sky for 500
>>> >> miles
>>> >> > (over 800 km) and headed for the newly constructed and  
>>> world's only
>>> >> > UFO landing site which had been built for the Canadian  
>>> Centennial
>>> >> > exposition in St. Paul, Alberta, where it showered sparks
>>> >> > ("retro-rockets" to some folks). In case you wondered, I  
>>> believe
>>> >> the
>>> >> > Japanese classified on Antarctic meteorite with 10  
>>> milligrams, if
>>> >> you
>>> >> > can believe that!
>>> >> >
>>> >> > So what actually makes a meteorite rare can turn into a  
>>> matter of
>>> >> > semantics and who you ask. Even the scale of 3 to 6 (or 7) is
>>> >> somewhat
>>> >> > arbitrary and just looks for convenient thermally changed  
>>> cairns
>>> >> along
>>> >> > the path toward melting. So if we went the other way, if H, L,
>>> >> and LL
>>> >> > correspond to only three parent bodies, the frequency of the  
>>> types
>>> >> > follows:
>>> >> >
>>> >> > H 45.0%
>>> >> > L 40.6%
>>> >> > LL 14.3%
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Hope this helps a little with that general question!
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Kind wishes,
>>> >> > Doug
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> > -----Original Message-----
>>> >> > From: Melanie Matthews <miss_meteorite at yahoo.ca>
>>> >> > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> >> > Sent: Tue, Dec 15, 2009 7:01 am
>>> >> > Subject: [meteorite-list] Ordinary chondrites - rarest to the  
>>> most
>>> >> > common classes
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> > G'mornin' listites,,
>>> >> > What is the least common type of ordinary chondrite, as well  
>>> as the
>>> >> > most common?
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Thanks
>>> >> > -----------
>>> >> > Melanie
>>> >> > IMCA: 2975
>>> >> > eBay: metmel2775
>>> >> > Known on SkyRock Cafe as SpaceCollector09
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Unclassified meteorites are like a box of chocolates... you  
>>> never
>>> >> know
>>> >> > what
>>> >> > you're gonna get!
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >>  
>>> >__________________________________________________________________
>>> >> > Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr!
>>> >> >
>>> >> > http://www.flickr.com/gift/
>>> >> >
>>> >> >______________________________________________
>>> >> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>> >> > Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> >> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> >> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>> >> >
>>> >> >______________________________________________
>>> >> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>> >> > Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> >> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> >> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>> >> >
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> --
>>> >> Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman       phone: (703) 648-6184
>>> >> US Geological Survey          fax:   (703) 648-6383
>>> >> 954 National Center
>>> >> Reston, VA 20192, USA
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>______________________________________________
>>> >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>> >> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>> >>
>>> >>______________________________________________
>>> >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>> >> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>> >
>>> > Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman       phone: (703) 648-6184
>>> > US Geological Survey          fax:   (703) 648-6383
>>> > 954 National Center
>>> > Reston, VA 20192, USA
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >______________________________________________
>>> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>> > Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>> Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman       phone: (703) 648-6184
>> US Geological Survey          fax:   (703) 648-6383
>> 954 National Center
>> Reston, VA 20192, USA
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>
> Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman       phone: (703) 648-6184
> US Geological Survey          fax:   (703) 648-6383
> 954 National Center
> Reston, VA 20192, USA
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From gmhupe at htn.net  Thu Dec 17 11:09:03 2009
From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 11:09:03 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA 4530 CO3.05 Specimens
References: <CEDA46AD52914B07A6C124B1CCDC1DD3@Gregor>
	<ACCB9DB77F6E4C6880F1B44F26B312ED@JeffPC>
Message-ID: <6019E2E357B24A4B9B160FF16B71B435@Gregor>

Dear List Members,

I received a few dozen emails asking what is available of NWA 4530. You may 
see the only available specimens here: 
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault

Thank you for your interest, I wish the stone was larger to accommodate 
everyone!

Best regards,
Greg

====================
Greg Hupe
The Hupe Collection
NaturesVault (eBay)
gmhupe at htn.net
www.LunarRock.com
IMCA 3163
====================
Click here for my current eBay auctions: 
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault

> Hey Greg, Congrats!
>
> Awesome material as usual! What pieces are available, what is your price?
>
> Thanks!
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Greg Hupe" <gmhupe at htn.net>
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 9:32 AM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Anomalous CO3.05 - NWA 4530
>
>
> Dear List Members,
>
> In light of today's discussion of pristine chondrites, I would like to 
> take
> this opportunity to announce Officially-named NWA 4530, an Anomalous 
> CO3.05
> Polymict Carbonaceous Chondrite. It is just one of a handful of this
> intensely rare meteorite type.
>
> Here is a quote from the primary researcher who analyzed NWA 4530:
> "NWA 4530 is the most pristine early solar system material I have ever 
> seen.
> There are no CO3.05s or CO3.0s or even CO3.1s that are as pristine (W/0) 
> as
> NWA 4530... a unique and important meteorite!"
>
> Here is the submitted classification for the Meteoritical Bulletin:
>
> Northwest Africa 4530
>     Algeria
>
>     Find: September 2006
>
>     Carbonaceous chondrite (CO3.05, anomalous)
>
> History: A single 35.9gram stone broken into 5 pieces was purchased by 
> Greg
> Hup? from a Moroccan dealer in Tagounite in September 2006.
>
> Physical Characteristics: Very fresh, light to medium gray interior, with
> translucent dark fusion crust with internal bubbles and a prominent
> diamond-shaped reticulated pattern in areas where the crust has flaked 
> off.
>
> Petrography (T. Bunch and J. Wittke, NAU; A. Irving, UWS): A polymict,
> unequilibrated meteorite, exhibiting some characteristics consistent with
> other CO3 chondrites (e. g., non-spherical chondrules are most abundant 
> and
> are lobate, distended, and highly irregular, some with fine-grained
> accretionary rims). Distinctive chondrule-like objects (designated as CLO)
> are also common and are typically fragmented with miniscule mesostasis.
> Classic chondrule types are few in number and consist mostly of densely
> packed Type I PO and POP with little to no detectable mesostasis. There is
> no apparent correlation of Cr2O3 with FeO in FeO-rich olivine with 
> distance
> from core to rim, yet there is a correlation of Cr2O3 with FeO in
> forsteritic cores. Cr-rich olivine rims were not observed. Amoeboid 
> olivine
> inclusions are the most common CAI. The fine-grained matrix is
> unrecrystallized with very fine-grained magnetite, sulfides, silica,
> glasses, and silicates. Rare, small cohenite grains were also found.
> Irregular-shaped sulfides are much larger and range in size from 0.02 to
> 0.12 mm. Complex nuggets are of two types: (1) those consisting of
> pentlandite, troilite, and Cr-magnetite, and (2) sulfide-bearing nuggets,
> consisting of a solitary pentlandite grain surrounded by troilite with 
> wispy
> oriented inclusions of an unknown sulfide. Magnetite is a common inclusion
> in chondrules, and the composition and distribution of magnetite is 
> similar
> to that in CK chondrites. No NiFe metal was observed anywhere. Angular,
> large (up to 2 x 1.5 mm) igneous-textured clasts contain (in vol %):
> forsterite, 79; troilite and pentlandite, 18 and diopside, 3.
>
> Geochemistry: Overall olivine compositions range from, Fa0.03 to Fa72
> (FeO/MnO = 61 - 133, mean is 91). Cr2O3 in FeO-rich olivine fragments has 
> a
> range of 0.10 to 0.48 wt % with a peak at 0.34 wt % (N = 84). 
> Chondrule-like
> fragments (CLO) have a more overall FeO-rich olivine composition, with 
> lower
> Fa range (core Fa = 4; rim Fa =41) and lower Cr2O3 content (0.04 - 0.31,
> mean = 0.18). Chromian spinel, Cr/(Cr+Al) = 0.24 -0.34. Unknown sulfide is
> (in wt. %): Fe, 67.5 and S, 33.2.  Cr-magnetite contains 0.47 - 3.1 wt %
> Cr2O3 with minor amounts of MgO, Al2O3, P2O5, CaO and NiO. Unzoned
> igneous-textured clast olivine is Fa2.7 (FeO/MnO = 31) and diopside is
> Fs1.2Wo39.  Average matrix analysis (partial, N= 27) by defocused beam
> microanalysis is (in wt %): Na2O = 0.81; K2O = 0.25; S = 2.48; P2O5 = 
> 0.44;
> Cr2O3 = 0.45; NiO = 0.45; S/Si = 0.19; Na/Al = 0.31. Oxygen isotopes (D.
> Rumble, CIW): analysis of acid-washed material by laser fluorination gave
> d18O = -4.228; d17O = -7.052; D17O = -4.829 per mil, consistent with CO
> chondrites.
>
> Classification: Carbonaceous chondrite (CO3.05, anomalous). This stone is
> polymict; most components are consistent with CO3 chondrites, although
> chondrule-like components (CLO) are not common in CO chondrites (from a
> survey of 34 specimens in the NAU repository). NWA 4530 is more highly
> oxidized than most CO chondrites and is devoid of metal. The Cr2O3 content
> in olivine and the matrix composition is consistent with CO3.0 - CO3.05
> (Grossman J. N. and Brearley A. J. (2005) M&PS 40, 87-122). The weathering
> grade is W0/1; there is no evidence of any interior weathering. The shock
> level is S1.
>
> Type specimens:  A total of 6.4 g and one polished thin section are on
> deposit at UWS. Mr. Philip Mani is the main mass holder.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
> Greg
>
>
> ====================
> Greg Hupe
> The Hupe Collection
> NaturesVault (eBay)
> gmhupe at htn.net
> www.LunarRock.com
> IMCA 3163
> ====================
> Click here for my current eBay auctions:
> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>
> 




From gmhupe at htn.net  Thu Dec 17 11:27:23 2009
From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 11:27:23 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA 4530 CO3.05 Photo
References: <32801230.1261015083317.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <0D72FA37EA5045FC961A3CE1040F1086@Gregor>

Count Deiro wrote:
"Without a doubt, that is the most interesting and unique carbonaceous 
chondrite I have seen so far. Thank you for posting the photo of NWA 4530."

Thank you Count! I agree with you and am happy to share these unique 
meteorites with everyone!

Best regards,
Greg

====================
Greg Hupe
The Hupe Collection
NaturesVault (eBay)
gmhupe at htn.net
www.LunarRock.com
IMCA 3163
====================
Click here for my current eBay auctions: 
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <countdeiro at earthlink.net>
To: "Greg Hupe" <gmhupe at htn.net>; <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 8:58 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 4530 CO3.05 Photo


> Without a doubt, that is the most interesting and unique carbanaceous 
> chondrite I have seen so far. Thank you for posting the photo of NWA 4530.
>
> Merry Chritmas, Happy Holidays and Propserous New Year,
>
> Count Deiro
>
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: Greg Hupe <gmhupe at htn.net>
>>Sent: Dec 16, 2009 8:09 PM
>>To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA 4530 CO3.05 Photo
>>
>>Dear List Members,
>>
>>I forgot to include an image of NWA 4530. Thank you to all who pointed 
>>this
>>out to me!
>>
>>NWA 4530 CO3.05 Anomalous Polymict Carbonaceous Chondrite 24.7g Main Mass
>>Photo:
>>http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa4530/nwa4530mainmass.jpg
>>
>>A couple people asked how I have the patience to wait three years or more 
>>to
>>announce a new meteorite. My answer, "Easy, I am in no rush to offer
>>material that the researchers need time to do a proper and complete job
>>classifying such important meteorites!" Often times duplicate, triplicate
>>and more times of analysis is needed in order to get an accurate and
>>unarguable result.
>>
>>I thank the scientists with whom I work with for their tireless efforts to
>>unlock the secrets of the stones.
>>
>>Best regards,
>>Greg
>>
>>====================
>>Greg Hupe
>>The Hupe Collection
>>NaturesVault (eBay)
>>gmhupe at htn.net
>>www.LunarRock.com
>>IMCA 3163
>>====================
>>Click here for my current eBay auctions:
>>http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault
>>
>>
>>______________________________________________
>>http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>Meteorite-list mailing list
>>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> 




From damoclid at yahoo.com  Thu Dec 17 13:40:32 2009
From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 10:40:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fireball & Earthquake
Message-ID: <842808.52793.qm@web113605.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Sounds like a coincidental pair of events in Nebraska last night

http://spaceweather.com/


--
Richard Kowalski
http://fullmoonphotography.net
IMCA #1081


      


From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com  Thu Dec 17 14:44:00 2009
From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 11:44:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] joes meteorwrong
Message-ID: <393624.66392.qm@web57808.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Hey if any one is still looking for a piece of his amazing meteorwrong,I have a piece to sell if interested.I got the 165 gram main mass.I also have a 75 gram endcut which is amazing.$75 will take it home with free shipping.This is what I paid.
?Steve R. Arnold, Chicago!! 


From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Thu Dec 17 14:52:35 2009
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 11:52:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] The Clock is Ticking for Stalwart Spirit Rover
Message-ID: <200912171952.nBHJqZJt015004@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>


http://www.spaceflightnow.com/news/n0912/16spirit/

The clock is ticking for stalwart Spirit rover
BY STEPHEN CLARK 
SPACEFLIGHT NOW
December 16, 2009

The Spirit rover is facing an approaching deadline to drive out of a
Martian sand pit, as engineers on Earth race to analyze the health of
two wheels and a potentially significant electrical glitch.

Teams have been trying for a month to extricate the stuck rover from a
field of thick sand. Spirit unintentionally drove into the sand trap in
April, and the rover has not moved since then.

Spirit is now in an unfavorable orientation to collect sunlight for
power production during the approaching Martian winter. Officials think
the rover's chances for survival are slim at its current location.

"Now is the time to do something because we have the energy to do
something. If we wait too long, we will have fewer and fewer options,"
said John Callas, project manager for the Spirit and Opportunity rovers
at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif.

Callas said Spirit's survivability will become an issue after March,
when the sun's elevation in the sky could be too low for the rover's
solar panels to produce enough electricity. The timing is uncertain
because of changing dust accumulations on the solar panels.

The winter solstice in the southern hemisphere of Mars is on May 13.

Despite repeated attempts to free the rover, Spirit has barely budged.
More than 30 feet of wheel motion has moved Spirit just a fraction of an
inch.

Drivers haven't commanded the rover to move since late November.
Spirit's right-rear wheel unexpectedly stalled, and engineers have spent
the last two weeks conducting diagnostic tests to determine the cause of
the unusual behavior, according to Callas.

Officials initially feared Spirit would be left with four operating
wheels. The rover's right-front wheel has not worked since 2006, and
engineers attributed its failure to a bad actuator.

Since the 2006 wheel failure, controllers have driven Spirit backwards,
dragging the bum wheel behind the rover.

But during tests last weekend, the right-front wheel showed signs of
working. The indication came during a rotor resistance test in which
controllers apply low voltages to wheel motors to verify electrical
continuity, Callas said.

The right-rear wheel continued to exhibit high resistance and showed no
movement, but the right-front wheel motor made one revolution, moving
the wheel by one-quarter of a degree. Previous test results indicated an
open circuit in the right-front wheel in 2006.

"The resistance measurements for the right-front wheel showed it to be
normal," Callas said.

Callas cautioned the results were preliminary and there could still be a
problem with a motor or actuator in the right-front wheel.

Engineers are currently analyzing an unusual voltage in the mobility
system that could be the cause of the wheel troubles on Spirit.

"There's a voltage we measure between what's called the spacecraft
chassis and the spacecraft electrical ground, and that voltage is
normally zero and it has been zero for most of the mission," Callas
said. "We're now seeing a voltage show up on that that seems to be
correlated with the drives."

Spirit's other four wheels are showing no signs of trouble, according to
project officials.

"It's suggesting there might be an electrical problem with the mobility
system, specifically those wheels in question," Callas said.

Engineers are in the early stages of diagnosing the electrical anomaly,
and Callas wants to be sure it is not indicative of a larger problem
affecting other parts of the rover.

"Our concern, now that we've observed this electrical problem, is we
don't want to brown out the rover," Callas said. "We don't want to cause
a short somewhere that could potentially be devastating. We have to
proceed cautiously, so we're trying to investigate this as quickly as we
can. The difficult thing is we may not come up with any kind of clear
path forward on how to deal with this electrical problem."

The rover team spent six months developing intricate plans to drive
Spirit out of the sand pit, but engineers now have less time for
analysis and must act quickly because of the upcoming winter.

"We have to start doing something with the vehicle because we're running
out of time," Callas said.



From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Thu Dec 17 14:53:50 2009
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 11:53:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] MRO HiRISE Images - December 16, 2009
Message-ID: <200912171953.nBHJroJc015844@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>



MARS RECONNAISSANCE ORBITER HIRISE IMAGES
December 16, 2009

o New Impact Crater: Formed between Jan 2006 and May 2008
  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_010862_1880

o Holden Crater Megabreccia: A Telltale Sign of a Sudden and Violent Event
  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_001666_1530

o Faults and Pits in the North Polar Residual Ice Cap
  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_001513_2650

o Alluvial Fans in Mojave Crater: Did It Rain on Mars?
  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_001415_1875

o North Polar Layered Deposits in Head Scarp of Chasma Boreale
  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_001334_2645

All of the HiRISE images are archived here:

http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/

Information about the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter is 
online at http://www.nasa.gov/mro. The mission is 
managed by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, a division 
of the California Institute of Technology, for the NASA 
Science Mission Directorate, Washington, D.C. Lockheed 
Martin Space Systems, of Denver, is the prime contractor 
and built the spacecraft. HiRISE is operated by the 
University of Arizona. Ball Aerospace and Technologies 
Corp., of Boulder, Colo., built the HiRISE instrument.



From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com  Thu Dec 17 14:56:38 2009
From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 11:56:38 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Ordinary chondrites - rarest to the most
	common classes
Message-ID: <COL108-W16F2319DA8D7F2DC2059F69B860@phx.gbl>


Hi Jeff,

I've been puzzled about what you said and perhaps I've misread or missed your comments. Why do you think the R chondrites should be included in the oc clan (rather than the carbonaceous)? I thought this was a very unique idea.


Thank you all for this interesting topic.

Carl



Jeff Grossman wrote:

>I didn't say they ARE included in the OCs... I 
said that I thought they should be. As far as I 
know, I am alone in this opinion...

and 

>...If we take a more expansive definition of "ordinary chondrite" than most of my rather
conservative colleagues are normally willing to accept, I would say that
the rarest group of OCs is the R chondrites (only ~100 are known and
many of those are paired).In addition, a number of unique ungrouped
meteorites are OC-like.But again, I don't know of any colleagues who
agree with me that R chondrites are in the OC class. [I would say that
the OC class has two clans, the H-L-LL clan and the R clan].



 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222986/direct/01/

From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com  Thu Dec 17 16:56:10 2009
From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 13:56:10 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Ordinary chondrites - rarest to the most
	common classes
Message-ID: <COL108-W18C90F4682A30DAB06ED69B860@phx.gbl>


*Sorry for the repost. My original question did not make much sense.*
? 
Hi Jeff,
?
I've been puzzled about what you said and perhaps I've misread or missed your comments. Why do you think the R chondrites should be included in the oc clan? I thought this was a very unique idea.
? 
Thank you all for this interesting topic.
?
Carl
?
?
?
?Jeff Grossman wrote:
?
?>I didn't say they ARE included in the OCs... I 
?said that I thought they should be. As far as I 
?know, I am alone in this opinion...
?
?and 
?
?>...If we take a more expansive definition of "ordinary chondrite" than most of my rather
?conservative colleagues are normally willing to accept, I would say that
?the rarest group of OCs is the R chondrites (only ~100 are known and
?many of those are paired).In addition, a number of unique ungrouped
?meteorites are OC-like.But again, I don't know of any colleagues who
?agree with me that R chondrites are in the OC class. [I would say that
?the OC class has two clans, the H-L-LL clan and the R clan].

 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222984/direct/01/

From jgrossman at usgs.gov  Thu Dec 17 17:10:37 2009
From: jgrossman at usgs.gov (Jeff Grossman)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 17:10:37 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Ordinary chondrites - rarest to the
 most	common classes
In-Reply-To: <COL108-W16F2319DA8D7F2DC2059F69B860@phx.gbl>
References: <COL108-W16F2319DA8D7F2DC2059F69B860@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4B2AAC5D.3050703@usgs.gov>

First off, be careful of the words "clan" and "class."  The way most of 
us use it, carbonaceous chondrites are a "class", comprising many 
groups.  Some C chondrite groups are associated into "clans", like the 
CV-CK clan or the CM-CO clan.  But not all people use the term clan, and 
those who do sometimes differ in which groups are in which clans.  In 
any case, a "clan" is an association of groups that are thought to be 
related in some way, not necessarily originating on the same parent body.

There are two major characteristics that separate ordinary from 
carbonaceous chondrites.  1) OCs are above the terrestrial fractionation 
line (TFL) for oxygen isotopes and CCs are below it (except for highly 
altered ones).  2) OCs are depleted in refractory lithophile elements 
and CCs either have solar abundances or above.  (E chondrites are on the 
TFL and depleted in refractories.)

R chondrites share these major properties with ordinary chondrites, and 
therefore are better lumped with the OCs.  In fact, bulk composition and 
O isotopes are the key properties used to assign all the C chondrite 
groups to the carbonaceous class.  I think it is reasonable to do the 
same with the R, H, L, and LL groups, that is, to assign them to a 
common class.  We don't really have a name for this class, as "ordinary 
chondrites" have come to be synonymous with H-L-LL, which I would 
consider to be a clan of this unnamed class.  I would NOT put R 
chondrites in the H-L-LL clan; they are in the same class. 

I guess part of the confusion is whether "ordinary chondrites" has to 
apply only to H-L-LL chondrites, or whether we can use this phrase as 
the name of an entire class.  My initial preference was to do the 
latter.  I said the ordinary chondrite class has two major clans, the 
H-L-LL clan and the R clan (which has but one member).  On reflection, a 
more palatable solution would be to find a new name for this class, and 
then we could refer to the ordinary chondrite clan and the R chondrite 
clan within it. 

So, what do we call this class?  You can't use "noncarbonaceous 
chondrites" because we also have the enstatite chondrites in their own 
class.  I have no idea.

Jeff


Carl 's wrote:
> Hi Jeff,
>
> I've been puzzled about what you said and perhaps I've misread or missed your comments. Why do you think the R chondrites should be included in the oc clan (rather than the carbonaceous)? I thought this was a very unique idea.
>
>
> Thank you all for this interesting topic.
>
> Carl
>
>
>
> Jeff Grossman wrote:
>
>   
>> I didn't say they ARE included in the OCs... I 
>>     
> said that I thought they should be. As far as I 
> know, I am alone in this opinion...
>
> and 
>
>   
>> ...If we take a more expansive definition of "ordinary chondrite" than most of my rather
>>     
> conservative colleagues are normally willing to accept, I would say that
> the rarest group of OCs is the R chondrites (only ~100 are known and
> many of those are paired).In addition, a number of unique ungrouped
> meteorites are OC-like.But again, I don't know of any colleagues who
> agree with me that R chondrites are in the OC class. [I would say that
> the OC class has two clans, the H-L-LL clan and the R clan].
>
>
>
>  		 	   		  
> _________________________________________________________________
> Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222986/direct/01/
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>   


-- 
Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman       phone: (703) 648-6184
US Geological Survey          fax:   (703) 648-6383
954 National Center
Reston, VA 20192, USA




From epgrondine at yahoo.com  Thu Dec 17 17:52:12 2009
From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 14:52:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Christmas AD
Message-ID: <767428.27428.qm@web36906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi all - 

I hope those of you who have copies of "Man and Impact in the Americas" are enjoying it, and may consider gifting a copy to your friends. As always, personally signed copies are available by mail to meteorite list participants by sending $20 plus $5 for priority mail shipping in the US or plus $15 for priority mail shipping overseas to 

E.P. Grondine
P.O. Box 158 
Kempton, IL
60946

Please be sure to mention if the recipient has Native American heritage, or if you want me to ship it directly to them, mentioning it was a gift from you.

Ed


      


From michael at rocksfromspace.org  Thu Dec 17 17:42:44 2009
From: michael at rocksfromspace.org (Michael Johnson)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 14:42:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December 17,
	2009
Message-ID: <1507464008.71181261089764462.JavaMail.root@mbs1.homesteadmail.com>

http://www.rocksfromspace.org/December_17_2009.html



From ensoramanda at ntlworld.com  Thu Dec 17 18:36:18 2009
From: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com (ensoramanda at ntlworld.com)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 23:36:18 +0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] The Clock is Ticking for Stalwart Spirit Rover
In-Reply-To: <200912171952.nBHJqZJt015004@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>
Message-ID: <20091217233618.4PI39.59001.root@web08-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com>

Has there been any talk of trying to use the robotic arm to help in any way, such as leverage combined with driving or moving some of the larger rocks under reachable wheels to provide traction or both?

Graham, UK

---- Ron Baalke <baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> wrote: 
> 
> http://www.spaceflightnow.com/news/n0912/16spirit/
> 
> The clock is ticking for stalwart Spirit rover
> BY STEPHEN CLARK 
> SPACEFLIGHT NOW
> December 16, 2009
> 
> The Spirit rover is facing an approaching deadline to drive out of a
> Martian sand pit, as engineers on Earth race to analyze the health of
> two wheels and a potentially significant electrical glitch.
> 
> Teams have been trying for a month to extricate the stuck rover from a
> field of thick sand. Spirit unintentionally drove into the sand trap in
> April, and the rover has not moved since then.
> 
> Spirit is now in an unfavorable orientation to collect sunlight for
> power production during the approaching Martian winter. Officials think
> the rover's chances for survival are slim at its current location.
> 
> "Now is the time to do something because we have the energy to do
> something. If we wait too long, we will have fewer and fewer options,"
> said John Callas, project manager for the Spirit and Opportunity rovers
> at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif.
> 
> Callas said Spirit's survivability will become an issue after March,
> when the sun's elevation in the sky could be too low for the rover's
> solar panels to produce enough electricity. The timing is uncertain
> because of changing dust accumulations on the solar panels.
> 
> The winter solstice in the southern hemisphere of Mars is on May 13.
> 
> Despite repeated attempts to free the rover, Spirit has barely budged.
> More than 30 feet of wheel motion has moved Spirit just a fraction of an
> inch.
> 
> Drivers haven't commanded the rover to move since late November.
> Spirit's right-rear wheel unexpectedly stalled, and engineers have spent
> the last two weeks conducting diagnostic tests to determine the cause of
> the unusual behavior, according to Callas.
> 
> Officials initially feared Spirit would be left with four operating
> wheels. The rover's right-front wheel has not worked since 2006, and
> engineers attributed its failure to a bad actuator.
> 
> Since the 2006 wheel failure, controllers have driven Spirit backwards,
> dragging the bum wheel behind the rover.
> 
> But during tests last weekend, the right-front wheel showed signs of
> working. The indication came during a rotor resistance test in which
> controllers apply low voltages to wheel motors to verify electrical
> continuity, Callas said.
> 
> The right-rear wheel continued to exhibit high resistance and showed no
> movement, but the right-front wheel motor made one revolution, moving
> the wheel by one-quarter of a degree. Previous test results indicated an
> open circuit in the right-front wheel in 2006.
> 
> "The resistance measurements for the right-front wheel showed it to be
> normal," Callas said.
> 
> Callas cautioned the results were preliminary and there could still be a
> problem with a motor or actuator in the right-front wheel.
> 
> Engineers are currently analyzing an unusual voltage in the mobility
> system that could be the cause of the wheel troubles on Spirit.
> 
> "There's a voltage we measure between what's called the spacecraft
> chassis and the spacecraft electrical ground, and that voltage is
> normally zero and it has been zero for most of the mission," Callas
> said. "We're now seeing a voltage show up on that that seems to be
> correlated with the drives."
> 
> Spirit's other four wheels are showing no signs of trouble, according to
> project officials.
> 
> "It's suggesting there might be an electrical problem with the mobility
> system, specifically those wheels in question," Callas said.
> 
> Engineers are in the early stages of diagnosing the electrical anomaly,
> and Callas wants to be sure it is not indicative of a larger problem
> affecting other parts of the rover.
> 
> "Our concern, now that we've observed this electrical problem, is we
> don't want to brown out the rover," Callas said. "We don't want to cause
> a short somewhere that could potentially be devastating. We have to
> proceed cautiously, so we're trying to investigate this as quickly as we
> can. The difficult thing is we may not come up with any kind of clear
> path forward on how to deal with this electrical problem."
> 
> The rover team spent six months developing intricate plans to drive
> Spirit out of the sand pit, but engineers now have less time for
> analysis and must act quickly because of the upcoming winter.
> 
> "We have to start doing something with the vehicle because we're running
> out of time," Callas said.
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From parkforestmet at hotmail.com  Thu Dec 17 18:40:30 2009
From: parkforestmet at hotmail.com (bill kies)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 17:40:30 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Moratorium on meteorite-list rules?
In-Reply-To: <393624.66392.qm@web57808.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
References: <393624.66392.qm@web57808.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <SNT102-W42D1CC3E941BCFC0F2B5ABA2860@phx.gbl>


I see Ssteve has granted himself a special dispensation regarding list rules, ads, spam and all his solemn oaths of the past. Is there a holiday moratorium on common sense or is he preparing for one of his sincere new years resolutions?
 

 
  
> Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 11:44:00 -0800
> From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: [meteorite-list] joes meteorwrong
> 
> Hey if any one is still looking for a piece of his amazing meteorwrong,I have a piece to sell if interested.I got the 165 gram main mass.I also have a 75 gram endcut which is amazing.$75 will take it home with free shipping.This is what I paid.
>  Steve R. Arnold, Chicago!! 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222986/direct/01/

From aidmohamed at rocketmail.com  Thu Dec 17 18:42:48 2009
From: aidmohamed at rocketmail.com (Aid Mohamed)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 15:42:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Hawardite, Tamdakht & Orsins for sale
Message-ID: <406611.24189.qm@web111215.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Hello list,
I add some new meteorite for sale; enjoy: 
http://www.flickr.com/photos/34600337 at N07/
who's  interessing contact me off the list;
best wishes
Aid


      


From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com  Thu Dec 17 19:59:12 2009
From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 16:59:12 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Ordinary chondrites - rarest to the most
	common classes
Message-ID: <COL108-W2555B0A9FDF37DDCBD7F6B9B850@phx.gbl>



Sorry for my poor use of terms. I really should be more careful. I've had to look up what refractory lithophile elements are:

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1988mess.book..394L

and terrestrial fractionation line (TFL):

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2004AGUFM.V41D..08R

Stuff like that flies over my head unless I look these things up. Now your explanations are a lot more clearer! :D Thanks Jeff! 


Carl

PS: Is it just me or am I the only dumb guy on this list?

 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222985/direct/01/

From countdeiro at earthlink.net  Thu Dec 17 22:14:00 2009
From: countdeiro at earthlink.net (countdeiro at earthlink.net)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 22:14:00 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] joes meteorwrong
Message-ID: <3923777.1261106040817.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Highly recommended. I bought an end piece from Joe already, or would go for your offering, Steve. Listees, if you don't have one of these...get one...extraordinary. I can't believe it isn't extra terrestial. Scrape is right. Specific gravity is in range. Hundreds of clasts and chondrule like inclusions, many armored. Stunning bright metal rivulets attracted to a magnet. A real enigma.

Thanks Joe for getting it out where we can enjoy it.

On to Tucson.

Count Deiro  

-----Original Message-----
>From: steve arnold <stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com>
>Sent: Dec 17, 2009 2:44 PM
>To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>Subject: [meteorite-list] joes meteorwrong
>
>Hey if any one is still looking for a piece of his amazing meteorwrong,I have a piece to sell if interested.I got the 165 gram main mass.I also have a 75 gram endcut which is amazing.$75 will take it home with free shipping.This is what I paid.
>?Steve R. Arnold, Chicago!! 
>______________________________________________
>http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>Meteorite-list mailing list
>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com  Thu Dec 17 23:28:59 2009
From: skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com (Joe Kerchner)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 20:28:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] joes meteorwrong
In-Reply-To: <3923777.1261106040817.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <3923777.1261106040817.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <87977.72352.qm@web43408.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Thanks Count. I agree, very hard to believe it is terrestrial, but thats what they say.

Best,
Joe Kerchner
http://illinoismeteorites.com

----- Original Message ----
From: "countdeiro at earthlink.net" <countdeiro at earthlink.net>
To: steve arnold <stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com>; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Thu, December 17, 2009 9:14:00 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] joes meteorwrong

Highly recommended. I bought an end piece from Joe already, or would go for your offering, Steve. Listees, if you don't have one of these...get one...extraordinary. I can't believe it isn't extra terrestial. Scrape is right. Specific gravity is in range. Hundreds of clasts and chondrule like inclusions, many armored. Stunning bright metal rivulets attracted to a magnet. A real enigma.

Thanks Joe for getting it out where we can enjoy it.

On to Tucson.

Count Deiro  

-----Original Message-----
>From: steve arnold <stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com>
>Sent: Dec 17, 2009 2:44 PM
>To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>Subject: [meteorite-list] joes meteorwrong
>
>Hey if any one is still looking for a piece of his amazing meteorwrong,I have a piece to sell if interested.I got the 165 gram main mass.I also have a 75 gram endcut which is amazing.$75 will take it home with free shipping.This is what I paid.
> Steve R. Arnold, Chicago!! 
>______________________________________________
>http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>Meteorite-list mailing list
>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



      



From skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com  Thu Dec 17 23:32:50 2009
From: skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com (Joe Kerchner)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 20:32:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorwrongs
In-Reply-To: <704f522a0912171643o65f3097bob617f12d70642e90@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5E9F3C350F3F48C995E949229EE98AC9@laptop>
	<751152.66524.qm@web43415.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
	<704f522a0912171643o65f3097bob617f12d70642e90@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <98959.22227.qm@web43403.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Thanks Elton, 
I appreciate all your help on this. I agree on it's uniqueness and its appeal, I am glad that everyone is happy with it,  However I do disagree with 2 things you said below. The metal does rust if I dont dry it off after cutting and polishing them, also they are very strongly attracted to a magnet, more than most of my chondrites, even some of the H chondrites.
Best,
Joe Kerchner
http://illinoismeteorites.com



----- Original Message ----
From: MstrEman <mstreman at gmail.com>
To: Joe Kerchner <skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com>
Sent: Thu, December 17, 2009 6:43:34 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorwrongs

As one of the auxillary testers, let me recommend this meteorwrong
just from the aesthetics and uniqueness.  This item is unique so far
as is know in that it contains armored clasts ( vs armored
chondrules). Some pieces show a series of "braided" veins of Iron
Carbide.

This caused quiet a stir as no one had seen this in any meteorite nor
natural ore and given the lack of rust one of the researchers
suspected a smelting artifact right off.  The extremely low cobalt
nickel content(<3ppm), low REE and presence of silica aka quartz were
the key diagnostics.

The metal veins are in actuality iron carbide-- they are iridescent
and won't rust.  Iron carbide can form when hot carbon monoxide gas is
forced through the charge containing martensite in some furnace
operations. The mineral name for iron carbide is  cementite: Fe3C (or
Fe2C:Fe)  Were this from a meteorite and containing Ni or Co then the
mineral name would be cohenite. Cementite is ferromagnetic accounting
for the weak to moderate attraction to a magnet.


Elton



      



From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com  Thu Dec 17 23:39:38 2009
From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 20:39:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorwrongs
In-Reply-To: <98959.22227.qm@web43403.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <249198.59689.qm@web46401.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

I am happy to say I pegged this as a wrong from the start, mainly due to visible quartz in it, however I will say that its an awesome piece to have in my collection and a great example of just how right looking a wrong can be.

If you dont have one yet and would like to have an awesome wrong, this is it.

Its my opinion that this is some sort of industrial waste or slag as I cant imagine this forming naturally on Earth.
Given that a good portion was found close to railroad tracks, it might be interesting to see if there was a lost car (derailed) or something of that nature in the area of the find.

I should have more testing results soon, when I get them, I will offer it to everyone.

Greg C.
www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com



--- On Thu, 12/17/09, Joe Kerchner <skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Joe Kerchner <skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorwrongs
> To: "meteorite list" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Date: Thursday, December 17, 2009, 11:32 PM
> Thanks Elton, 
> I appreciate all your help on this. I agree on it's
> uniqueness and its appeal, I am glad that everyone is happy
> with it,? However I do disagree with 2 things you said
> below. The metal does rust if I dont dry it off after
> cutting and polishing them, also they are very strongly
> attracted to a magnet, more than most of my chondrites, even
> some of the H chondrites.
> Best,
> Joe Kerchner
> http://illinoismeteorites.com
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: MstrEman <mstreman at gmail.com>
> To: Joe Kerchner <skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com>
> Sent: Thu, December 17, 2009 6:43:34 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorwrongs
> 
> As one of the auxillary testers, let me recommend this
> meteorwrong
> just from the aesthetics and uniqueness.? This item is
> unique so far
> as is know in that it contains armored clasts ( vs armored
> chondrules). Some pieces show a series of "braided" veins
> of Iron
> Carbide.
> 
> This caused quiet a stir as no one had seen this in any
> meteorite nor
> natural ore and given the lack of rust one of the
> researchers
> suspected a smelting artifact right off.? The
> extremely low cobalt
> nickel content(<3ppm), low REE and presence of silica
> aka quartz were
> the key diagnostics.
> 
> The metal veins are in actuality iron carbide-- they are
> iridescent
> and won't rust.? Iron carbide can form when hot carbon
> monoxide gas is
> forced through the charge containing martensite in some
> furnace
> operations. The mineral name for iron carbide is?
> cementite: Fe3C (or
> Fe2C:Fe)? Were this from a meteorite and containing Ni
> or Co then the
> mineral name would be cohenite. Cementite is ferromagnetic
> accounting
> for the weak to moderate attraction to a magnet.
> 
> 
> Elton
> 
> 
> 
> ? ? ? 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      


From skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com  Thu Dec 17 23:45:17 2009
From: skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com (Joe Kerchner)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 20:45:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorwrongs
In-Reply-To: <249198.59689.qm@web46401.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
References: <249198.59689.qm@web46401.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <723157.57561.qm@web43407.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Most of them weren't really found too close to the rail road tracks, a few pieces were, but many were found in the field and along the creek next to the tracks.
Best,
Joe Kerchner



----- Original Message ----
From: Greg Catterton <star_wars_collector at yahoo.com>
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Thu, December 17, 2009 10:39:38 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorwrongs

I am happy to say I pegged this as a wrong from the start, mainly due to visible quartz in it, however I will say that its an awesome piece to have in my collection and a great example of just how right looking a wrong can be.

If you dont have one yet and would like to have an awesome wrong, this is it.

Its my opinion that this is some sort of industrial waste or slag as I cant imagine this forming naturally on Earth.
Given that a good portion was found close to railroad tracks, it might be interesting to see if there was a lost car (derailed) or something of that nature in the area of the find.

I should have more testing results soon, when I get them, I will offer it to everyone.

Greg C.
www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com



--- On Thu, 12/17/09, Joe Kerchner <skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Joe Kerchner <skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorwrongs
> To: "meteorite list" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Date: Thursday, December 17, 2009, 11:32 PM
> Thanks Elton, 
> I appreciate all your help on this. I agree on it's
> uniqueness and its appeal, I am glad that everyone is happy
> with it,  However I do disagree with 2 things you said
> below. The metal does rust if I dont dry it off after
> cutting and polishing them, also they are very strongly
> attracted to a magnet, more than most of my chondrites, even
> some of the H chondrites.
> Best,
> Joe Kerchner
> http://illinoismeteorites.com
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: MstrEman <mstreman at gmail.com>
> To: Joe Kerchner <skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com>
> Sent: Thu, December 17, 2009 6:43:34 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorwrongs
> 
> As one of the auxillary testers, let me recommend this
> meteorwrong
> just from the aesthetics and uniqueness.  This item is
> unique so far
> as is know in that it contains armored clasts ( vs armored
> chondrules). Some pieces show a series of "braided" veins
> of Iron
> Carbide.
> 
> This caused quiet a stir as no one had seen this in any
> meteorite nor
> natural ore and given the lack of rust one of the
> researchers
> suspected a smelting artifact right off.  The
> extremely low cobalt
> nickel content(<3ppm), low REE and presence of silica
> aka quartz were
> the key diagnostics.
> 
> The metal veins are in actuality iron carbide-- they are
> iridescent
> and won't rust.  Iron carbide can form when hot carbon
> monoxide gas is
> forced through the charge containing martensite in some
> furnace
> operations. The mineral name for iron carbide is 
> cementite: Fe3C (or
> Fe2C:Fe)  Were this from a meteorite and containing Ni
> or Co then the
> mineral name would be cohenite. Cementite is ferromagnetic
> accounting
> for the weak to moderate attraction to a magnet.
> 
> 
> Elton
> 
> 
> 
>       
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      
______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



      



From keithandana at gmail.com  Fri Dec 18 00:39:05 2009
From: keithandana at gmail.com (Keith and Dana Jenkerson)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 22:39:05 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD- Christmas Specials!
Message-ID: <f9cf59510912172139o76340e60kd5c00eec24ce52ff@mail.gmail.com>

Hello, Everyone!

Christmas is almost here and if you are looking for a last minute gift
or something unique and awesome, we have several brand new,
handcrafted  Muonionalusta Meteorite Letter openers available. Mention
"Free Shipping" and we will give you free shipping on orders over
$100.00!
Click here to see availability:
http://kdmeteorites.com/coverletteropeners.html

Also, we are offering a Christmas Bundle on our Admire Pallasite
Slices- for every slice purchased you will recieve Free Shipping, a
Riker Box, and an information pamphlet.
Click here for availability:
http://www.admiremeteorites.com/AdmirePallasiteMeteoriteSlicesForSale.html

Free shipping will be USPS Priority Mail in the US; and First Class
Registered out of the country.

Have a wonderful Holiday Season and a Happy New Year!

Keith and Dana Jenkerson

--
KD Meteorites
kdmeteorites.com
Keith and Dana Jenkerson
4596 N. Vickie Lane
Kingman, AZ., 86409
928-399-0140
928-277-9293


From ensoramanda at ntlworld.com  Fri Dec 18 04:48:34 2009
From: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com (ensoramanda at ntlworld.com)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 9:48:34 +0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fried egg crater!
In-Reply-To: <f9cf59510912172139o76340e60kd5c00eec24ce52ff@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091218094834.7UJNY.315578.root@web02-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com>

Hi All,

Another possible crater/craters...not good hunting territory though!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8400264.stm

Graham UK


From lintonius at earthlink.net  Fri Dec 18 05:23:43 2009
From: lintonius at earthlink.net (Linton Rohr)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 02:23:43 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] joes meteorwrong
References: <3923777.1261106040817.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<87977.72352.qm@web43408.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <D647FA7D8983474AAA3CAB738F2BFD82@D190TH71>

Joe and listoids,
I received a nice end cut a few days ago and I'm quite pleased.
I'll have fun with it when I'm doing show-and-tell sessions. ;^)
The sliced surface is especially convincing. I must say though,
it felt substantially lighter than I expected when I first picked it up.
Not that that means anything...
Linton

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joe Kerchner" <skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com>
To: "meteorite list" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 8:28 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] joes meteorwrong


> Thanks Count. I agree, very hard to believe it is terrestrial, but thats 
> what they say.
>
> Best,
> Joe Kerchner
> http://illinoismeteorites.com
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: "countdeiro at earthlink.net" <countdeiro at earthlink.net>
> To: steve arnold <stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com>; 
> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Sent: Thu, December 17, 2009 9:14:00 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] joes meteorwrong
>
> Highly recommended. I bought an end piece from Joe already, or would go 
> for your offering, Steve. Listees, if you don't have one of these...get 
> one...extraordinary. I can't believe it isn't extra terrestial. Scrape is 
> right. Specific gravity is in range. Hundreds of clasts and chondrule like 
> inclusions, many armored. Stunning bright metal rivulets attracted to a 
> magnet. A real enigma.
>
> Thanks Joe for getting it out where we can enjoy it.
>
> On to Tucson.
>
> Count Deiro
>
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: steve arnold <stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com>
>>Sent: Dec 17, 2009 2:44 PM
>>To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>Subject: [meteorite-list] joes meteorwrong
>>
>>Hey if any one is still looking for a piece of his amazing meteorwrong,I 
>>have a piece to sell if interested.I got the 165 gram main mass.I also 
>>have a 75 gram endcut which is amazing.$75 will take it home with free 
>>shipping.This is what I paid.
>> Steve R. Arnold, Chicago!!
>>______________________________________________
>>http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>Meteorite-list mailing list
>>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 



From oxytropidoceras at cox.net  Fri Dec 18 09:06:09 2009
From: oxytropidoceras at cox.net (Paul H.)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 8:06:09 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Ocean Acidification and Permain and Triassic
	Extinctions
Message-ID: <20091218090609.QFEFV.224358.imail@eastrmwml38>

Asteroid impacts are not the only possible cause for the Permian 
and Triassic extinctions. Some recent papers on one possible cause.

1. Saunders, A.,  and M. Reichow, 2009, The Siberian Traps 
and the End-Permian mass extinction: a critical review.
Chinese Science Bulletin. vol. 54, no. 1, pp. 20-37.
http://www.springerlink.com/content/1743222152769702/

?Compromise of the carbon sequestration systems (by 
curtailment of photosynthesis, destruction of biomass, 
and warming and  acidification of the oceans) probably 
led to rapid atmospheric CO2 build-up, warming, and 
shallow-water anoxia, leading ultimately to mass extinction.?

2. Knoll, A. H., R. K. Bambach, J. L. Payne, S. Prussa and 
Woodward W. Fischer, 2007, Paleophysiology and 
end-Permian mass extinction. Earth and Planetary 
Science Letters. vol. 256, no. 3-4, pp. 295-313.
http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.epsl.2007.02.018

?Global warming, anoxia, and toxic sulfide probably all 
contributed to end-Permian mass mortality, but 
hypercapnia (physiological effects of elevated PCO2) 
best accounts for the selective survival of marine 
invertebrates.?

3. Hautmann, M., 2004, Effect of End-Triassic CO2 maximum 
on carbonate sedimentation and marine mass extinction. 
Facies. vol. 50, pp. 257?261. 
http://www.springerlink.com/content/ajvptjvenfvte5ck/

?Besides the frequently cited climatic effect of enhanced 
carbon dioxide, lowering the saturation state of sea water 
with respect to calcium carbonate was an additional driving 
force of the end-Triassic mass extinction, which chiefly 
affected organisms with thick aragonitic or high-magnesium 
calcitic skeletons. Replacement of aragonite by calcite, as 
found in the shells of epifaunal bivalves, was an evolutionary 
response to this condition.?

4. Hautmann, M., M., J. Benton, and A. Tomasovych, 2008,
Catastrophic ocean acidification at the Triassic?Jurassic 
boundary. Neues Jahrbuch f?r Geologie und Pal?ontologie 
Abhandlungen. vol. 249, pp. 119?127.

"Using carbon isotopes as a geochemical marker, we found 
that the onset of the CO2 emissions coincided with an 
interruption of carbonate sedimentation in palaeogeographically 
distant regions, suggesting that hydrolysis of CO2 led to 
a short but substantial decrease of seawater pH that 
slowed down or inhibited precipitation of calcium 
carbonate minerals. The cessation of carbonate sedimentation 
correlates with a major marine extinction event, which 
especially affected organisms with aragonitic or high-Mg 
calcitic skeletons and little physiological control of 
biocalcification."

5. Ryan, D., and D. Lehrann, 2009, Petrographic evaluation of 
a Permian-Triassic erosion surface and implications for 
causes of the end-Permian mass extinction. Geological Society 
of America Abstracts with Programs, Vol 41, No. 4, p. 17
http://gsa.confex.com/gsa/2009NC/finalprogram/abstract_156104.htm

?our results favor genesis as a submarine dissolution 
surface resulting from ocean acidification during the 
end-Permian extinction.?

6. Veron, J. E. N., 2008, Mass extinctions and ocean acidification: 
biological constraints on geological dilemmas. Coral Reefs.
vol. 27, no. 3., pp. 459-472. 
http://www.springerlink.com/content/085g2151l3nlt871/

7. Zhuravlev, A. Y.,* and R. A. Wood, 2009, Controls on 
carbonate skeletal mineralogy: Global CO2 evolution and 
mass extinctions. Geology. vol. 37, no. 12, pp. 1123-1126.
http://geology.gsapubs.org/content/37/12/1123.abstract

?Mass extinction events, many of which may be caused by 
rapid global changes in temperature and/or pCO2, represent 
major intervals of turnover.?

Yours,

Paul H.


From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Fri Dec 18 11:15:40 2009
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 11:15:40 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD : New Exclusive Lunar and Martian Meteorite
	Displays - Limited Quantity
In-Reply-To: <e51421550912120522v790ff0f8j4fb5f72669e24d20@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e51421550912120522v790ff0f8j4fb5f72669e24d20@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e51421550912180815h25f2cf13n27c20e9ae06eae1a@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Listees!

These new meteorite displays feature a genuine piece of the Moon or
the planet Mars - small samples of lunar meteorite NWA 4734 and the
Martian meteorite NWA 4857. Order now (or very soon) for Christmas
delivery!

The meteorite specimens are encased in clear acrylic gemjars which are
placed inside a handsome display box that has a black pebblegrain
finish and a glass viewing window. The Moon or Mars Rock can be
removed from the case and handled or examined. The color artwork
inside the display has a retro-vintage astronomy theme and it was
laser printed for highest quality. This display would make the ideal
gift for someone who has everything. This would also make a fine
outreach or educational prop and it would look great on display in the
office or observatory.

I only have a limited supply of these displays. Each one is numbered.
Your purchase comes with a data sheet with information about the
meteorite.

Refer to the photos in the links. The black centimeter cube is shown
for scale and is not included.

(ignore the website price - Met List members get a 20% discount!)

http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/0/MOON-ROCK-Exclusive-Retro-Art-Lunar-Meteorite-Display_1145800.html

http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/0/MARS-ROCK-Colorful-Retro-Art-Martian-Meteorite-Display_1151104.html

I only have 3 of the Lunar displays and 1 of the Martian displays.

To order or inquire, contact me (or send PayPal to) - meteoritemike at gmail.com

Thanks for looking and Merry Christmas!

MikeG

PS - my thanks to everyone who has sent positive thoughts and prayers
for my wife while she is hospitalized.  We hope she will be discharged
before Christmas.

-- 
.........................................................
Michael Gilmer (Florida, USA)
Member of the Meteoritical Society.
Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com
FaceBook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale
Twitter - Twitter - http://twitter.com/GalacticStone
eBay - http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/maypickle
..........................................................


From meteoriteshow at free.fr  Fri Dec 18 11:20:44 2009
From: meteoriteshow at free.fr (meteoriteshow at free.fr)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 17:20:44 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - ebay auctions ending on Saturday
Message-ID: <1261153244.4b2babdcc1845@imp.free.fr>

Dear Fellow Listees,

Before we make a break for 2 weeks our ebay auctions ending on Saturday can be
seen at:
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ50QQsassZmeteoriteshow

They include:

1- Ain Ouinet (unclass.) CV3 - 4.0g slice
Slice #2, weighing 4.0g, dimensions ~35x25x2mm.
Diplays a HUGE chonbdrule with some other sharply defined ones and CAIs.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330384245474

2- Al Haggounia 001 PRIM. AUB - 20.4g partslice
Partslice #009 weighing 20.4g, dimensions 76x45x3.2mm.
Cut in one of the freshest framents of Al Haggounia 001
Large & fragile partslice (fractured) displaying what is probably ghost
chondrules in the fair grey matrix and an interesting oxydized vein.
Shipped in a display box
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330384246394

3- CHERGACH H5 - 17.8g frag - WITNESSED FALL!
Fragment weighing 17.8g, dimensions: 23x20x18mm.
Approximately 50% Fusion Crusted
Very Fresh, was found soon after th fall!
STILL AT $100 STARTING PRICE!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330384247677

4- EL AROUSS L-IMB (unclas.) - 230.0g slice
FULL SLICE weighing 230.0g, dimensions 158x125x5mm.
Lots of vesiculated cavity,
pools of Fe/Ni a "milky way" of metal flakes.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330384248499

5- SAHARAN OC #4169 - 2616g semi-individual
PARTIALLY ORIENTED Semi - Individual weighing 2616g - 130x126x106mm.
Covered by a slightly weathered Fusion Crust with regmaglypts.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330384249608

6- ZAG H3-6 - 3.2g Endcut - WITNESSED FALL!
Endcut weighing 3.2g, Dimensions: 31x11x11mm
Displays the 2 typical lithologies of ZAG & a dark inclusion in a Fresh fair
grey matrix.
Partially FUSION CRUSTED
NO BID YET!!! STILL AT $100 STARTING PRICE!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330384250116

Thank you very much for watching and best wishes to ALL BIDDERS!!!
WE WILL BE BACK ON JANUARY 2ND!!!
Kind regards,

Frederic Beroud
http://www.meteoriteshow.com
IMCA member # 2491 (http://www.imca.cc/)



From epgrondine at yahoo.com  Fri Dec 18 11:48:53 2009
From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 08:48:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite researher makes good
Message-ID: <555537.82787.qm@web36905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi all - 

I'm sure that some of the people here from Arizona know this lady:

http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=29871

and will have some good things to share with us about her.

This accompanies word of the cancellation of Ares 1 (a real dog) and the adoption of Jupiter/Direct and an increase in NASA's budget. 

E.P. Grondine
Man and Impact in the Americas




      


From geozay at aol.com  Fri Dec 18 12:05:11 2009
From: geozay at aol.com (geozay at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 12:05:11 EST
Subject: [meteorite-list] (meteorobs) Geminid photos uploaded/did anyone
	notice anything unusual ab...
Message-ID: <adb1.201c8f2b.385d1047@aol.com>




>>Perhaps it's just me, but did anyone  else notice more persistent trains 
than usual? Although there were not too  many fireballs that I saw, even 
dimmer (but still negative magnitude)  Geminids seemed to leave long 
lasting trains.<<

This is  something I wouldn't be expecting. I kept personal records of 
train activity  when I observed in the 1990's. For the Geminids, I showed a rate 
of only 3.2%  that displayed visible wakes or trains. That was for the 
years of 1993, 1995,  1996 and 1998 under sky limiting magnitudes of between 5.6 
and 6.0. Those years  produced 1413 Geminids with 45 showing trains. I'd 
frequently see many bright  members without a train. The Geminids entry 
velocity is 35 km/s. I noticed that  the faster the entry velocity, generally the 
more trains will be perceived. For  example Leonids have an entry velocity 
of 71 km/s with 55% train production. And  for North Taurids with entry 
velocity of 29 km/s I saw a rate of 1.6% train  production. On occasions I'd find 
something that doesn't hold to that  pattern...such as the Alpha 
Capricornids...with an entry velocity of 25 km/s I  find their train production around 
3.9%. As for the sporadic population I found  overall train production to 
be at 13.8%
George Zay  



From countdeiro at earthlink.net  Fri Dec 18 12:51:07 2009
From: countdeiro at earthlink.net (countdeiro at earthlink.net)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 12:51:07 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] (meteorobs) Geminid photos uploaded/did
	anyone	notice anything unusual ab...
Message-ID: <5410002.1261158667182.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

George Zay said ">>Perhaps it's just me, but did anyone  else notice more persistent trains 
than usual? Although there were not too  many fireballs that I saw, even 
dimmer (but still negative magnitude)  Geminids seemed to leave long 
lasting trains.<<

Would anyone care to share their knowledge of the factors at play in the production of visible "trains"? I would surmise that the velocity of the object has less to do with this than the mass and the penetration to denser lower altitudes.

Count Deiro 

-----Original Message-----
>From: geozay at aol.com
>Sent: Dec 18, 2009 12:05 PM
>To: meteorobs at meteorobs.org
>Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] (meteorobs) Geminid photos uploaded/did anyone	notice anything unusual ab...
>
>
>
>
>>>Perhaps it's just me, but did anyone  else notice more persistent trains 
>than usual? Although there were not too  many fireballs that I saw, even 
>dimmer (but still negative magnitude)  Geminids seemed to leave long 
>lasting trains.<<
>
>This is  something I wouldn't be expecting. I kept personal records of 
>train activity  when I observed in the 1990's. For the Geminids, I showed a rate 
>of only 3.2%  that displayed visible wakes or trains. That was for the 
>years of 1993, 1995,  1996 and 1998 under sky limiting magnitudes of between 5.6 
>and 6.0. Those years  produced 1413 Geminids with 45 showing trains. I'd 
>frequently see many bright  members without a train. The Geminids entry 
>velocity is 35 km/s. I noticed that  the faster the entry velocity, generally the 
>more trains will be perceived. For  example Leonids have an entry velocity 
>of 71 km/s with 55% train production. And  for North Taurids with entry 
>velocity of 29 km/s I saw a rate of 1.6% train  production. On occasions I'd find 
>something that doesn't hold to that  pattern...such as the Alpha 
>Capricornids...with an entry velocity of 25 km/s I  find their train production around 
>3.9%. As for the sporadic population I found  overall train production to 
>be at 13.8%
>George Zay  
>
>______________________________________________
>http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>Meteorite-list mailing list
>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From meteoriteman at comcast.net  Fri Dec 18 13:00:46 2009
From: meteoriteman at comcast.net (meteoriteman at comcast.net)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 18:00:46 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorwrongs
Message-ID: <632061370.2835611261159246815.JavaMail.root@sz0098a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>


I received a sample of Joe's meteorwrong a couple of months ago when it was still being tested by the lab. Like the Counte, my first impression was that it was to light in weight to be a meteorite. Also the numerous vesicles were a bad sign. I tested it for nickel content and got a weak response, but nickel is there. I think it is rust prone cause of the weak nickel content. Applying a coat of automotive wax will help protect it from rusting. I also tested it for density and got 2.6 density. A meteorite with that much metal in it would have a density of at least 3.5. It's probably slag, but most slags that I have found have a different metal disbursement, that's in circular droplets instead if the ribbon type in Joe's specimen. It's a great meteowrong!

A couple of years ago I found one that is similar to Joe's. At first I thought it might be a lunar, but it's slag also. Here's a few photo's of it.

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn181/Jimski47/P4280002.jpg

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn181/Jimski47/P4280014.jpg

Close up of the armored chondrule.
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn181/Jimski47/222.jpg

Happy hunting,
Jim K


From mike.hankey at gmail.com  Fri Dec 18 13:04:07 2009
From: mike.hankey at gmail.com (Mike Hankey)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 13:04:07 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite researher makes good
In-Reply-To: <555537.82787.qm@web36905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <555537.82787.qm@web36905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <f0a794130912181004g4edc42bck317ee98819333aab@mail.gmail.com>

She looks ok by me!

http://www.facebook.com/profile/pic.php?oid=AAAAAQAQmC9DPd-OpAuTtIHPz-vlxgAAAAryaswXO7cGecypW6auELNS

On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:48 AM, E.P. Grondine <epgrondine at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hi all -
>
> I'm sure that some of the people here from Arizona know this lady:
>
> http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=29871
>
> and will have some good things to share with us about her.
>
> This accompanies word of the cancellation of Ares 1 (a real dog) and the adoption of Jupiter/Direct and an increase in NASA's budget.
>
> E.P. Grondine
> Man and Impact in the Americas
>
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


From epgrondine at yahoo.com  Fri Dec 18 13:16:22 2009
From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 10:16:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] P/T transition
Message-ID: <780537.8829.qm@web36908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi Paul - 

One is still left with the question of what set off the Siberian Traps lava outflows. We now know that the Shiva impact amplified the Deccan Trap outflows.

E.P. Grondine
Man and Impact in the Americas


      


From geozay at aol.com  Fri Dec 18 13:18:08 2009
From: geozay at aol.com (geozay at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 13:18:08 EST
Subject: [meteorite-list] Train production...was something else. :O)
Message-ID: <d3ff.54c9c45d.385d2160@aol.com>



I'm not sure the first sent made it to the  lists...so we might have a 
double posting...sorry about  that.
geo
>>Would anyone care to share their knowledge of the  factors at play in the 
production of visible "trains"? I would surmise that the  velocity of the 
object has less to do with this than the mass and the  penetration to denser 
lower altitudes.<<

Here are some more of what  I have recorded from my observations during the 
1990's. I'm sure the number of  bright magnitudes and number of meteors in 
my survey will have some influence,  but I think velocity strongly enters 
the picture for visible train production.  Also Sky magnitude and personal 
visual acuity will have some influence as well.  

Shower                 Entry Velocity          # of  Meteors                
 Train  Production

Leonid                      71km/s                    573                   
               55%
Eta  Aquarid              66km/s                     158                    
              45.6%
Aurigids                    66km/s                     52                   
              40.4%
Orinids                     66km/s                      459                 
              38.1%
Coma Bernicids         65km/s                     14                        
         35.7%
Delta  Aurigids             64km/s                   100                    
              31%
Perseids                    59km/s                   1357                   
              41.4%
Hydrids                     58km/s                     26                   
              7.7%
Lyrids                        49km/s                     179                
                 16.2%
N.Delta Aquarids         42km/s                      96                     
          3.1%
S. Delta Aquarids        41km/s                      263                    
            4.6%
Quadrantids                41km/s                      104                  
             5.8%
Geminids                    35km/s                    1413                  
               3.2%
Virginids                     30km/s                    120                 
                 4.2%
N.Taurids                    29km/s                      437                
               1.6%
Delta  Cancrids             28km/s                      18                  
              0%
S.  TAurids                    27km/s                      311              
                 0.32%
Capricornids                25km/s                        127               
               3.9%
sporadics                    N/A                             5900           
                  13.8%                            




From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Fri Dec 18 15:56:52 2009
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 12:56:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA Names New Deputy Associate Administrator for
	Exploration (Laurie Leshin)
Message-ID: <200912182056.nBIKurs3024408@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>



Dec. 18, 2009

Grey Hautaluoma/Ashley Edwards 
Headquarters, Washington 
202-358-0668/1756 
grey.hautaluoma-1 at nasa.gov 
ashley.edwards-1 at nasa.gov 

RELEASE: M09-293

NASA NAMES NEW DEPUTY ASSOCIATE ADMINISTRATOR FOR EXPLORATION

WASHINGTON -- Laurie Leshin has been named the new deputy associate 
administrator of the Exploration Systems Mission Directorate at NASA 
Headquarters, effective in January. 

Leshin previously served as the deputy center director for science and 
technology at NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Md. 
She has led the formulation of strategy and the start of new missions 
since 2008 as Goddard's senior scientist, while providing extensive 
scientific guidance to lunar architecture and other human spaceflight 
planning activities. 

"I am delighted that Laurie will be joining us as my deputy, and I 
look forward to working closely with her," said Doug Cooke, associate 
administrator for NASA's Exploration Systems Mission Directorate. 
"She has worked with Exploration in the past and has a great track 
record. I think her experience and skills will be invaluable as we 
move forward." 

Leshin joined NASA in August 2005 as the director of Goddard's 
Sciences and Exploration Directorate. She came to the agency from 
Arizona State University, where she was The Dee and John Whiteman 
Dean Distinguished Professor of Geological Sciences and director of 
the Center for Meteorite Studies. 

Through her research, Leshin sought to decipher the record of water in 
objects in our solar system. A primary part of the research involved 
using meteorites from Mars to assess the history of water and the 
potential for life on the Red Planet. She has been on science teams 
for several NASA missions, including the Mars Polar Lander and the 
upcoming Mars Science Laboratory. 

Earlier this year, Leshin also led the NASA Innovation and Technology 
Study Group, a team of 15 that made recommendations on how NASA could 
increase focus on innovative activities and technologies needed to 
advance the agency's mission. She earned a bachelor of science degree 
in chemistry at Arizona State University in 1987 and a doctorate in 
geochemistry from the California Institute of Technology in 1994. 

Prior to coming to NASA, Leshin received the agency's Distinguished 
Public Service Medal, the highest award for non-NASA personnel. The 
International Astronomical Union has recognized her contributions to 
planetary science with the naming of asteroid 4922 Leshin. 

http://www.nasa.gov/exploration 
	
-end-



From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Fri Dec 18 16:14:21 2009
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 13:14:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter Resumes Observations
Message-ID: <200912182114.nBILELv9026134@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>


http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2009-198  

NASA's Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter Resumes Observations
Jet Propulsion Laboratory
December 16, 2009

PASADENA, Calif. -- Researchers are receiving new science data from
NASA's Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter after the spacecraft's six science
instruments resumed observations today.

Observations had been suspended since a computer reset Aug. 26. During
the time since then, engineers analyzed a series of previous computer
resets by the spacecraft and completed preventive care to guard against
a vulnerability identified by that analysis.

In addition to the Aug. 26 event, the orbiter had spontaneously reset
its computer three times earlier this year: Feb. 23, June 4 and Aug. 6.
The mission had returned to full science operations within a few days
after the first three. The decreasing intervals between the resets
prompted the team to perform a more extensive analysis after the fourth
one.

"It's good to have the instruments back on," said Mars Reconnaissance
Orbiter Mission Manager Dan Johnston of NASA's Jet Propulsion
Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. "This has been a long stand-down. Now we're
ready to resume our science and relay mission."

Engineers have not identified a root cause for the four reset events,
but the team has added protections for the spacecraft and expects to
obtain more diagnostic information in the event of another reset.

Two weeks ago, engineers rewrote selected files in the orbiter's
non-volatile memory, where information is preserved even if a reset
interrupts power. This was done to remove a vulnerability that had been
identified for an unlikely scenario of two resets within a minute of
each other. On Dec. 8, engineers commanded the orbiter out of the
precautionary, minimum-activity status called "safe mode" that they had
kept it in since August. Additional steps, including a change of
spacecraft orientation to point the instruments downward at Mars,
enabled the spacecraft's science instruments to resume observations.

"The orbiter's six instruments will continue examining the atmosphere,
surface and subsurface of Mars, including areas of interest as potential
landing sites for future missions," said JPL's Rich Zurek, Mars
Reconnaissance Orbiter project scientist. "It is northern spring in the
northern hemisphere on Mars, and we are eager to take advantage of the
good visibility provided by the relatively dust-free atmosphere present
at this season. A major goal of the mission is to look at changes on
Mars. For example, the instruments will observe the changing polar caps,
examining the extent and composition of the retreating north polar
frosts and the growth of the south polar cap during this period."

Launched Aug. 12, 2005, the orbiter reached Mars the following year to
begin a two-year primary science phase that was completed last year. It
has returned more data about Mars than all other spacecraft combined.
Its findings indicate a complex Martian history of climate change that
produced a diversity of past watery environments over hundreds of
millions of years.

The Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter remains an important asset for exploring
Mars and serving as a communications relay for spacecraft on the
planet's surface. NASA's other active Mars orbiter, Mars Odyssey, was
also briefly in safe mode for a portion of last week, but has also
resumed relay and science operations.

More information about the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter is online at:
http://www.nasa.gov/mro or http://marsprogram.jpl.nasa.gov/mro/.

NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif., manages the Mars
Reconnaissance Orbiter for NASA's Science Mission Directorate in
Washington. Lockheed Martin Space Systems in Denver built the
spacecraft. JPL is a division of the California Institute of Technology
in Pasadena.

Guy Webster 818-354-6278
Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif.
guy.webster at jpl.nasa.gov

Dwayne Brown 202-358-1726
NASA Headquarters, Washington
dwayne.c.brown at nasa.gov

2009-198



From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Fri Dec 18 16:17:15 2009
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 13:17:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Spirit Rover Update: Right-Front Wheel Rotations
Message-ID: <200912182117.nBILHGdu027615@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>


http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2009-201  

Right-Front Wheel Rotations
Jet Propulsion Laboratory
December 17, 2009

Spirit's right-front wheel, which had stopped operating in March 2006,
revolved with apparently normal motion during the first three of four
driving segments on Sol 2117 (Wednesday, Dec. 16) but stopped early in
the fourth segment of the drive.

The rover's right-rear wheel, which stalled nearly three weeks ago,
remained immobile during the entire Sol 2117 drive. The other four
wheels all drove forward in this part of the continuing attempt to
extricate Spirit from the sand trap where it is embedded. The sol's
total commanded motion was 10 meters (33 feet) worth of wheel rotations.
The resulting movement of the rover was about 2 millimeters (0.08 inch)
forward and 4 millimeters (0.16 inch) downward. That ratio of forward to
downward is well below what would be necessary over longer distance for
extrication. Part of the downward motion on Sol 2117 resulted from the
right-front wheel digging in as it rotated about 10 times.

Engineers are analyzing results from the Sol 2117 drive and from
electrical tests conducted prior to the drive. Movement of the
right-front wheel for about 3.5 minutes was a surprise, despite an
indication from an electrical-resistance test on Sol 2113 (Saturday,
Dec. 12) that some motion might be possible by the long-disused wheel.
It is not clear whether the wheel will work again, since it stopped
during the final drive segment. It is also not clear whether extrication
from the sand trap would be possible even with an operable right-front
wheel.

The drive conducted on Sol 2117 had been planned for one sol earlier,
but was delayed after analysis of the Sol 2113 test led to discovery of
a new electrical issue on Spirit. Engineers learned that a persistent
voltage now exists between the rover electric ground and the rover
chassis where no voltage should exist. This condition might be related
to problems with the right-rear wheel.

Spirit ran diagnostic tests related to this grounding issue on Sol 2117
prior to driving and during the drive. The single-point ground showed a
sustained minus 5 volts that increased to minus 25 volts whenever any of
the six wheel-driving motors or four wheel-steering motors were powered.
This suggests the unusual electrical behavior is associated with the
rover motor controller board since the behavior is seen with all 10
motors associated with that electronics board. The rover has other
motors not related to the wheels, but the persistent voltage has not
been associated with any of those.

The plan ahead is to perform another set of low-voltage tests on the
three right-side wheels and then command another four-step forward
drive. This drive would not use the right-front wheel in conjunction
with the others, but that wheel would be driven briefly by itself after
each step to gain more information about its possible usefulness.

Guy Webster 818-354-6278
Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif.
guy.webster at jpl.nasa.gov

2009-201



From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Fri Dec 18 16:19:10 2009
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 13:19:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars Odyssey THEMIS Images: December 14-18, 2009
Message-ID: <200912182119.nBILJAqG028396@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>


MARS ODYSSEY THEMIS IMAGES
December 14-18, 2009

o Rabe Crater Dunes (14 December 2009)
  http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20091214a

o Rabe Crater Dunes (15 December 2009)
  http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20091215a

o Scamander Vallis (16 December 2009)
  http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20091216a

o Holden Crater Delta (17 December 2009)
  http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20091217a

o Olympica Fossae (18 December 2009)
  http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20091218a


All of the THEMIS images are archived here:

http://themis.asu.edu/latest.html

NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory manages the 2001 Mars Odyssey mission 
for NASA's Office of Space Science, Washington, D.C. The Thermal Emission 
Imaging System (THEMIS) was developed by Arizona State University,
Tempe, in co.oration with Raytheon Santa Barbara Remote Sensing. 
The THEMIS investigation is led by Dr. Philip Christensen at Arizona State 
University. Lockheed Martin Astronautics, Denver, is the prime contractor 
for the Odyssey project, and developed and built the orbiter. Mission 
operations are conducted jointly from Lockheed Martin and from JPL, a 
division of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena. 





From grf2 at comcast.net  Fri Dec 18 16:39:11 2009
From: grf2 at comcast.net (Jerry Flaherty)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 16:39:11 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Meteorite Pendant Neckless ( Christmas
	Gift )
References: <1095417691.13877911260304808169.JavaMail.root@sz0057a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>
	<F7AB26E0862A4631A600AA899CBCF161@den>
Message-ID: <C6160C7F5A22484BAB50EB195A57CB29@ASUS>

Dawn, my wife, opened Tim's Meteorite Pendant Necklace today, on her 50th 
birthday. I watched her eyes which opened wide and sparkled as she revealed 
the contents of the package. She rushed to a mirror to don it and extolled 
the ingenious magnetic fastening system which adapts the the wearer's 
pleasure.
I don't know which one of us enjoyed the event more, her the recipient or me 
the spectator.
Thank you Tim for the treasure that only a shooting star, in this case from 
"The Field of Heaven" can provide. It's not the first meteorite jewelry 
she's enjoyed but it most certainly is the finest fashioned.
Jerry Flaherty

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Timothy  Heitz" <Midwest at Meteorman.org>
Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 6:41 PM
To: "Meteorite Central" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Meteorite Pendant Neckless ( Christmas Gift )

> Hello List,
>
> I have some Meteorite Pendants on E-Bay  onl;y $23.99 free shipping in the 
> U.S.
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260520590810
>
>
> Thank You,
> Tim Heitz
>
> MIDWEST METEORITES - http://www.meteorman.org/
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From mlblood at cox.net  Fri Dec 18 17:43:43 2009
From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael Blood)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 14:43:43 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] PDFs re Innisfree wanted by Bob
Message-ID: <C751459F.9F2B%mlblood@cox.net>

Received the following:
---
Michael

I'm not sure if my email server will let me post to the metlist whilst I'm
deployed with Army in East Timor

I would deeply appreciate if you could make a metlist post on my behalf
please

I'm after scanned pdfs or photocopies of the two articles below:

> Shestaka, I. S. "A complex of meteorite-forming bodies (the Innisfree -
Ridgedale family)" 
> Solar System Research [Astronomicheskii Vestnik], 1994 Vol 28, No. 6, p. 94 -
100.
>  
> Rozaev, A. E.  "On possible parent bodies of Innisfree, Lost City and Prgibram
meteorites."
> Solar System Research [Astronomicheskii Vestnik], 1994 Vol 28, No. 6, p. 119 -
122.




From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net  Fri Dec 18 18:05:58 2009
From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 17:05:58 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] P/T transition
References: <780537.8829.qm@web36908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <469A2F10750C44A495EDF70BE4D16410@ATARIENGINE2>

Hi, EP, List,

The Indian Deccan Traps basalt-flood vulcanism
began before dinosaurs were extinct, continued
through the extinction event, and for a few million
years afterward.

The region of the vast lava flows has some major sites
of fossilized dinosaur eggs, not after the eruptions,
but during and in-between them, thus demonstrating
rather conclusively that several million years of the
Traps (the second biggest flood-basalt region on the
planet) did not kill off the dinosaurs, even the ones
that lived there, although no doubt they complained
that the neighborhood was going to... er, downhill.

The individual layers of the Traps have been well-dated;
the so-called crater has not been dated at all. I say so-
called crater because it is regarded with great skepticism
by many including me (who is as pro-impact as you'll
find hereabouts).

All they have done is look at the shape. I do not find
that shape convincing -- the "central peak" is not in
the center but over near the rim (impossible!) and the
rim walls don't look like rim walls to me.

They know they need actual evidence. I quote: "The
team hopes to go India later this year to examine rocks
drill[ed] from the center of the putative crater for...
shattered and melted target rocks,... breccias, shocked
quartz, and an iridium anomaly..."

But... but... how could it have circular walls (or half a
circular wall)? Well, 65.3 million years ago, India wasn't
IN India. India was a big island off southern Africa, just
east of Madagascar! (50 million years before that, it was
part of (or attached to) Antarctica. India was on a long,
slow sea voyage to the north.

So, about 30 million years ago, it smacked into Asia and
pushed the Himalayas up and lifted the low-lying Tibet
Plateau into the sky. Anyway, we don't know where the
exact plate boundaries of the cruising Indian Plate were
and don't know if the "crater" traveled north with it. Or,
it could simply be that the "crater" is nothing but some
wrinkled terrain that India pushed into and bent... hard.

We WON'T know without a lot of drilling and sampling
and dating over vast stretches of ocean and gravimetric
surveys and a buncha stuff that costs millions. Until then,
we have press releases which are cheap but might inspire
a little money...

I'm not contributing any of my few pennies, but I hope
somebody does. The crater could have come north with
India or it could have been in the way when India arrived
or it may date to 253 million years and be a piece of the
Permian crater plucked off Antarctica and drug off by the
Indian Plate or it could be nothing much at all.

It is worth noting that it was almost exactly on the other
side, 180 degrees, from Chicxulub at the time. It may be
what planetologists call "chaotic terrain" and which is
formed by the shock wave of an impact directly on the
other side of a planet. (There's an example of that on
Mercury, a suspected example on Mars, and so forth.)
It's more likely that the Traps flow of lave was unleashed
by the Chicxulub impact.

Of course, on a planet with Earth's apparently unique
tectonics, there's lots of chaotic terrain from all kinds of
causes.

As for what set off the Siberian Traps, my money's on
the as-yet-undiscovered (?) Great Permian Whacker.
I say "undiscovered" because someday we may have
enough geomagnetic and gravimeteric data on the
Wilkes Land crater in Antarctica to convince.


Sterling K. Webb
-------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 12:16 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] P/T transition


> Hi Paul -
>
> One is still left with the question of what set off the Siberian Traps 
> lava outflows. We now know that the Shiva impact amplified the Deccan 
> Trap outflows.
>
> E.P. Grondine
> Man and Impact in the Americas
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com  Fri Dec 18 21:40:52 2009
From: abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com (Abdelaziz Alhyane)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 18:40:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD : New gorgeous CO3
Message-ID: <404417.88663.qm@web45411.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Dear List members,
 If you are looking for a very nice and very cheap CO3, I have for sale a 133g uniq CO3 carbonaceous stone , the best price ever offred, for price and photos, catact me off list please. this is you Xmas gift
My best
Aziz


      



From gmhupe at htn.net  Fri Dec 18 21:57:41 2009
From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 21:57:41 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD : New gorgeous CO3
References: <404417.88663.qm@web45411.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <10D294C181654377857C353862264E94@Gregor>

Aziz,

Please send to the List the "Classification" you received and Photos of this 
stone. Was a type sample sent to a scientist for authentication, or is this 
your personal observations?

Best regards,
Greg

====================
Greg Hupe
The Hupe Collection
NaturesVault (eBay)
gmhupe at htn.net
www.LunarRock.com
IMCA 3163
====================
Click here for my current eBay auctions: 
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Abdelaziz Alhyane" <abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 9:40 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD : New gorgeous CO3


> Dear List members,
> If you are looking for a very nice and very cheap CO3, I have for sale a 
> 133g uniq CO3 carbonaceous stone , the best price ever offred, for price 
> and photos, catact me off list please. this is you Xmas gift
> My best
> Aziz
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 




From abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com  Fri Dec 18 21:59:32 2009
From: abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com (Abdelaziz Alhyane)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 18:59:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] FB group NWA meteorites
In-Reply-To: <532842.56703.qm@web45402.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <862703.92503.qm@web45402.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Dear List members,
We already have 62 friends only two Moroccans me and Habibi, where are the other, if you wanna join us click on the link ; http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=201893903852&ref=mf . you should have a FB acount
My best
Aziz

--- On Sun, 12/13/09, Abdelaziz Alhyane <abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Abdelaziz Alhyane <abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [meteorite-list]  FB group NWA meteorites
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Sunday, December 13, 2009, 6:56 PM
> Dear List Member,
>  Already got 28 members joined, some have added great pics,
> you are welcome this is your group where you can share you
> photos, post your adds, ask for informations ......ect
> To join, follow this linke : 
> http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=201893903852&ref=nf
> Best regards
> Aziz
> 
> --- On Sun, 12/13/09, Abdelaziz Alhyane <abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > From: Abdelaziz Alhyane <abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com>
> > Subject: [meteorite-list] FB group NWA meteorites
> > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > Date: Sunday, December 13, 2009, 1:07 PM
> > Dear List Members,
> > 
> >? I just created a group on Facebook named NWA
> meteorites,
> > some friend on here are already joined the group and
> I
> > invite all of you to do so at :
> > 
> > http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=201893903852&ref=nf
> > 
> > This group is all about NWA meteorites, finds, falls,
> > dealers, availability, sales....etc
> > 
> > I hope all Moroccan dealer will joing the group.
> > 
> > Thank you for joining us
> > Aziz
> > 
> > 
> > ? ? ? 
> > ______________________________________________
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral..com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> > 
> 
> 
> ? ? ? 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      



From Midwest at Meteorman.org  Fri Dec 18 22:03:36 2009
From: Midwest at Meteorman.org (Timothy  Heitz)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 21:03:36 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Meteorite Pendant Neckless ( Christmas
	Gift )
References: <1095417691.13877911260304808169.JavaMail.root@sz0057a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>
	<F7AB26E0862A4631A600AA899CBCF161@den>
	<C6160C7F5A22484BAB50EB195A57CB29@ASUS>
Message-ID: <6F8E300F875341C5A0795603517D1E5B@den>

Thanks Jerry,

I will print this e-mail and let my wife read it, she inspired the idea .


Happy Holidays
Tim & Patricia


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jerry Flaherty" <grf2 at comcast.net>
To: "Timothy Heitz" <Midwest at Meteorman.org>; "Meteorite Central" 
<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 3:39 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD - Meteorite Pendant Neckless ( Christmas 
Gift )


> Dawn, my wife, opened Tim's Meteorite Pendant Necklace today, on her 50th 
> birthday. I watched her eyes which opened wide and sparkled as she 
> revealed the contents of the package. She rushed to a mirror to don it and 
> extolled the ingenious magnetic fastening system which adapts the the 
> wearer's pleasure.
> I don't know which one of us enjoyed the event more, her the recipient or 
> me the spectator.
> Thank you Tim for the treasure that only a shooting star, in this case 
> from "The Field of Heaven" can provide. It's not the first meteorite 
> jewelry she's enjoyed but it most certainly is the finest fashioned.
> Jerry Flaherty
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Timothy  Heitz" <Midwest at Meteorman.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 6:41 PM
> To: "Meteorite Central" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Meteorite Pendant Neckless ( Christmas 
> Gift )
>
>> Hello List,
>>
>> I have some Meteorite Pendants on E-Bay  onl;y $23.99 free shipping in 
>> the U.S.
>>
>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260520590810
>>
>>
>> Thank You,
>> Tim Heitz
>>
>> MIDWEST METEORITES - http://www.meteorman.org/
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 



From gmhupe at htn.net  Fri Dec 18 22:19:48 2009
From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 22:19:48 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Moroccan Reply - New gorgeous CO3
References: <932805.63535.qm@web45408.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CC9FB1DACC2349CDAEDF14E4779BF27E@Gregor>

To All who care about Real Meteorites and Authenticity,

This is the reply I received from this Moroccan who obviously does not care 
about offering authentic meteorites to collectors. He chose this reply 
instead of classification information and photos of his 'stone'. "Buyer 
Beware!!"
"> Who are you ?"

Like a typical Moroccan stone trader, he chooses to offer something he would 
like to sell that HE thinks he can pass off as a meteorite similar to one 
that is currently being offered by a reputable person. How shameful!!

Know who you are buying from, and make sure the material has been analyzed, 
otherwise it may just be another earth rock! I hope this guy is not an IMCA 
member!

Keep it Real!
Greg

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Abdelaziz Alhyane" <abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com>
To: "Greg Hupe" <gmhupe at htn.net>
Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 10:07 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD : New gorgeous CO3


> Who are you ?
>
> --- On Fri, 12/18/09, Greg Hupe <gmhupe at htn.net> wrote:
>
>> From: Greg Hupe <gmhupe at htn.net>
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD : New gorgeous CO3
>> To: "Abdelaziz Alhyane" <abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com>, 
>> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Date: Friday, December 18, 2009, 6:57 PM
>> Aziz,
>>
>> Please send to the List the "Classification" you received
>> and Photos of this stone. Was a type sample sent to a
>> scientist for authentication, or is this your personal
>> observations?
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Greg
>>
>> ====================
>> Greg Hupe
>> The Hupe Collection
>> NaturesVault (eBay)
>> gmhupe at htn.net
>> www.LunarRock.com
>> IMCA 3163
>> ====================
>> Click here for my current eBay auctions: 
>> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Abdelaziz Alhyane"
>> <abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com>
>> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>> Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 9:40 PM
>> Subject: [meteorite-list] AD : New gorgeous CO3
>>
>>
>> > Dear List members,
>> > If you are looking for a very nice and very cheap CO3,
>> I have for sale a 133g uniq CO3 carbonaceous stone , the
>> best price ever offred, for price and photos, catact me off
>> list please. this is you Xmas gift
>> > My best
>> > Aziz
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ______________________________________________
>> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> > Meteorite-list mailing list
>> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> 




From pshugar at clearwire.net  Fri Dec 18 23:13:10 2009
From: pshugar at clearwire.net (Pete Shugar)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 22:13:10 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Needs for 4 Jan 2010 presentation
Message-ID: <EC32B42B7BCD422AA60E5C88437985FB@laptop>

I need four NWA's 5 gm or less for two 
presentations at back to back classes at a 
school for the deaf.  (Donations are best, but 
if I have to buy, please keep the price down.)
Two will be for a drawing and the other two will 
be to leave with the science teachers.
I would like to have one Stone and one iron for
the teachers if at all possible.
I had a chance to visit, 
one on one, with a teacher and student, but 
my signing, tho slow, and I don't always know the sign, 
was making the girl very excited. 
She was so excited to hold a piece of a star
in her hand.
I can't wait to see the kids again.
I'll be writing an article for Meteorite Magazine
on this one as I fully expect it to be a very
special pair of classes.
As you can imagine, these kids are not in the 
mainstream of education, so I want to make it 
outstanding for them.
Larry, 
Can you use another write-up?
Pete


From leighannedelray at gmail.com  Sat Dec 19 01:24:54 2009
From: leighannedelray at gmail.com (Leigh Anne DelRay)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 23:24:54 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad: EBAY AUCTIONS, taza, sikhote-alin, henbury,
	mundrabilla, LDG, moldavite, Campo, Gibeon and more....
Message-ID: <5e97e2850912182224k2efac71bqba5ad68fbe25d26c@mail.gmail.com>

Hi everyone.
I have listed a lot of meteorites for sale. They are all very nice. I
just wanted to let you all know.
There is a SUPER lovely and VERY ORIENTED Taza NWA 859 here:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260525355949&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT

And a really cool Sikhote Alin that has orientation and flowlines,
check it out here:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260525370436&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT

A sweet little Henbury, that looks like a bat ( I think)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260525366403&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT

A mundrabilla with nice patina here:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260525359917&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT

And one of the nicest complete and Awesome Gibeon Crystal!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260525365598&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT

Plus a lot more.
All the auctions can be seen here.
http://shop.ebay.com/callistodesigns/m.html?_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1
Take a look and bid, and bid a lot.

Happy Holidays all my lovely meteorite people! I can't wait to see
everyone, only a little over a month to go! WOO HOO!

Gem Show -- Here we come!!!!

~Leigh Anne


From michael at rocksfromspace.org  Sat Dec 19 09:01:45 2009
From: michael at rocksfromspace.org (Michael Johnson)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 06:01:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December 19,
	2009
Message-ID: <1040148506.247261261231305110.JavaMail.root@mbs1.homesteadmail.com>

http://www.rocksfromspace.org/December_19_2009.html



From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com  Sat Dec 19 09:40:53 2009
From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 06:40:53 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December
	19, 2009
Message-ID: <COL108-W2746E9B2F3575AC6F538689B840@phx.gbl>


In the car over her left shoulder, the trunk is full of X-mas wrapped Lunars from Macy's. In the sign above the bar (it's kind of blurry) reads, Martian cutting dust cocktails NEW YEAR'S SPECIAL!

I see her freshly painted nails nicely matches her blouse.

Carl

http://www.rocksfromspace.org/December_19_2009.html
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222984/direct/01/

From fujmon at mac.com  Sat Dec 19 09:41:55 2009
From: fujmon at mac.com (Gary Fujihara)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 04:41:55 -1000
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December
 19, 2009
In-Reply-To: <1040148506.247261261231305110.JavaMail.root@mbs1.homesteadmail.com>
References: <1040148506.247261261231305110.JavaMail.root@mbs1.homesteadmail.com>
Message-ID: <E9EED7DC-5B36-4E49-AD46-7F3DDF3D02AB@mac.com>

Brave girl ... and lucky boyfriend!

On Dec 19, 2009, at 4:01 AM, Michael Johnson wrote:

> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/December_19_2009.html
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

Gary Fujihara
Big Kahuna Meteorites (IMCA#1693)
105 Puhili Place, Hilo, Hawaii 96720
(808) 640-9161



From altmann at meteorite-martin.de  Sat Dec 19 12:04:56 2009
From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 18:04:56 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December
	19, 2009
In-Reply-To: <E9EED7DC-5B36-4E49-AD46-7F3DDF3D02AB@mac.com>
References: <1040148506.247261261231305110.JavaMail.root@mbs1.homesteadmail.com>
	<E9EED7DC-5B36-4E49-AD46-7F3DDF3D02AB@mac.com>
Message-ID: <000001ca80cd$95d9cb50$07b22959@name86d88d87e2>

But Gary, it's a fake!

That is no girl.

Girls present us boys always with clothing   :-(

 

-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Gary
Fujihara
Gesendet: Samstag, 19. Dezember 2009 15:42
An: Michael Johnson
Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December
19, 2009

Brave girl ... and lucky boyfriend!

On Dec 19, 2009, at 4:01 AM, Michael Johnson wrote:

> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/December_19_2009.html
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

Gary Fujihara
Big Kahuna Meteorites (IMCA#1693)
105 Puhili Place, Hilo, Hawaii 96720
(808) 640-9161

______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From pshugar at clearwire.net  Sat Dec 19 12:19:50 2009
From: pshugar at clearwire.net (Pete Shugar)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 11:19:50 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Re needs
Message-ID: <C0A6873317D243FEBA7CB75ADBBC3C15@laptop>

List,
I  have 10 more presentations scheduled for this
year, after these 2.
Any and all help is very much appreciated.
This one on the 4th is very special to me as I
had a virus in my left ear that left me deaf in that 
ear in April. I had always wanted to learn sign so I started to
work on that about 12 years ago. I used it a lot
in church, but I never thought I would need it in
real life.
Anything donated will be credited and all will be used 
if not this school year, then next year. I already have 2 
scheduled for the next school year, These 2 are the base
presentations every year.
My address is:
Pete Shugar
4700 S Virginia Apt 208
Amarillo, Tx 79109

806 290 3374
Many thanks,
Pete IMCA 1733



From freequarks at gmail.com  Sat Dec 19 12:25:45 2009
From: freequarks at gmail.com (Dark Matter)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 10:25:45 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December
	19, 2009
In-Reply-To: <1040148506.247261261231305110.JavaMail.root@mbs1.homesteadmail.com>
References: <1040148506.247261261231305110.JavaMail.root@mbs1.homesteadmail.com>
Message-ID: <822da19a0912190925q4b5a7b3dkee4725f615944fe6@mail.gmail.com>

Darryl?



On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 7:01 AM, Michael Johnson
<michael at rocksfromspace.org> wrote:
> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/December_19_2009.html
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com  Sat Dec 19 12:40:38 2009
From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 09:40:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] oriented unclassified stoney buttons for sale (AD)
Message-ID: <468182.95453.qm@web57804.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Hi again list.I have 8 unclassified stoney oriented buttons for sale.All pics and prices upon asking.They range from 20 to 65 grams.All with specimen cards.Off list please.
?Steve R. Arnold, Chicago!! chicagometeorites.net/ 


From astroroks at hotmail.com  Sat Dec 19 12:49:12 2009
From: astroroks at hotmail.com (Dennis Miller)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 11:49:12 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December
 19, 2009
In-Reply-To: <E9EED7DC-5B36-4E49-AD46-7F3DDF3D02AB@mac.com>
References: <1040148506.247261261231305110.JavaMail.root@mbs1.homesteadmail.com>,
	<E9EED7DC-5B36-4E49-AD46-7F3DDF3D02AB@mac.com>
Message-ID: <COL113-W30D6ED0DC9B463ECA8DBB9B1840@phx.gbl>


Very brave!!!  1)holding it over a hard sidewalk and 2)no armed guards
escorting her and that $400,000 plus, wonderful stone.  I just love her!
Dennis
 
 
> From: fujmon at mac.com
> Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 04:41:55 -1000
> To: michael at rocksfromspace.org
> CC: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December 19, 2009
> 
> Brave girl ... and lucky boyfriend!
> 
> On Dec 19, 2009, at 4:01 AM, Michael Johnson wrote:
> 
>> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/December_19_2009.html
>> 
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 
> Gary Fujihara
> Big Kahuna Meteorites (IMCA#1693)
> 105 Puhili Place, Hilo, Hawaii 96720
> (808) 640-9161
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222985/direct/01/

From codale0806 at rogers.com  Sat Dec 19 13:15:13 2009
From: codale0806 at rogers.com (Charles O'Dale)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 10:15:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Crater discovered off the Azores?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.33.1261242039.43024.meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
References: <mailman.33.1261242039.43024.meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
Message-ID: <308565.32506.qm@web88004.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8400264.stm

Chuck
http://ottawa-rasc.ca/wiki/index.php?title=Odale-Articles
'Fried Egg' may be impact crater  
By Jonathan Amos 
Science correspondent, BBC News, San Francisco  
'Fried Egg' may be impact crater  
By Jonathan Amos 
Science correspondent, BBC News, San Francisco  
'Fried Egg' may be impact crater 
Portuguese scientists have found a depression on the Atlantic Ocean floor they think may be an impact crater. 
The roughly circular, 6km-wide hollow has a broad central dome and has been dubbed the "Fried Egg" because of its distinctive shape. 
It was detected to the south of the Azores Islands during a survey to map the continental shelf. 
If the Fried Egg was made by a space impactor, the collision probably took place within the past 17 million years. 


This is the likely maximum age of the basaltic sea-floor rock which harbours the feature. 
"To be sure, we need to take samples and make a profile of the sediment layers to determine if there really is a central uplift from an impact," explained Dr Frederico Dias from EMEPC (Task Group for the Extension of the Portuguese Continental Shelf). 
"We need also to see all the signatures that are consistent with a high velocity impact, like glasses from melting and, of course, debris; and what are called shatter cones (shocked rocks)," he told BBC News. 
Central peaks
Dr Dias described the putative impact feature here at the American Geophysical Union's (AGU) Fall Meeting, the world's largest annual gathering of Earth scientists. 
The Fried Egg was first identified in data gathered by a 2008 multibeam echosounder hydrographic survey. A further cruise from September to November this year confirmed its presence. 
It lies under 2km of water about 150km from the Azores archipelago. 
The depressed ring sits roughly 110m below the surrounding ocean bottom, with the circular dome-shaped central uplift 3km in diameter and with a base-to-top height of some 300m. 
Central peaks are often associated with meteorite impacts and form when the compressed crater floor rebounds. A peak is not definitive proof of an impact, however. 
A volcanic origin for the Fried Egg seems unlikely because the Portuguese team has not been able to find any lava flows within the structure or on its surroundings. 
Second crater
Interestingly, there is another - but much smaller - feature just 3-4km to the west of the egg. 
"It's just by the side. If the Fried Egg is a crater, this could be a crater also," speculated Dr Dias. 
Dr Dias and colleagues are examining gravity and magnetic data gathered during September's cruise. A third expedition to the area early next year will use a remotely operated vehicle (ROV) to try to retrieve samples from the ocean floor for analysis. 
The Portuguese team detailed the currently available Fried Egg data on a poster at the AGU meeting. Other researchers who came to view the information were split on the impact theory, Dr Dias said. 
"Even if it's not an impact crater it's still a very interesting feature," he told the BBC. 
The EMEPC is working under the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea to establish the true extent of Portuguese territorial waters. 
Jonathan.Amos-INTERNET at bbc.co.uk



From pshugar at clearwire.net  Sat Dec 19 13:46:52 2009
From: pshugar at clearwire.net (Pete Shugar)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 12:46:52 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] addendum
Message-ID: <A8744965D7BF4D639B80C8E57A026566@laptop>

List,
There  will be  31 kids all total.
Pete



From energylightandlove at yahoo.com  Sat Dec 19 13:48:03 2009
From: energylightandlove at yahoo.com (power ofunity)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 10:48:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Anyone see the Fireball over Pacific near
	Summerland/Santa Barbara Monday Morning?
Message-ID: <389184.24797.qm@web59006.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

Did anyone here see a bolide explode over the Pacific ocean near Summerland/Santa Barbara on Monday morning, Dec. 14 approximately 6:20 am?
?
I was traveling north on Hwy 101 south of Santa Barbara as a passenger, and the driver and I saw a glowing fireball trailing thick smoke out of the driver's window.? She asked me if it was a plane, but then it exploded, the largest piece was traveling away, still glowing but getting dimmer, and then it lost all light, and appeared to drop straight down.? There were smaller pieces visible that left spiral smoke trails away from the main smoke cloud.? Several cars were stopped a few miles up the road,? and people were outside watching;? I was hoping someone on the list was a witness, but I have not seen any reports here. 

Sorry about the delayed?post, my previous attempts bounced.

Ty


      


From fuzzfoot at comcast.net  Sat Dec 19 13:52:32 2009
From: fuzzfoot at comcast.net (Mike Bandli)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 10:52:32 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Anyone see the Fireball over Pacific
	nearSummerland/Santa Barbara Monday Morning?
In-Reply-To: <389184.24797.qm@web59006.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
References: <389184.24797.qm@web59006.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1101BB9004BB4B98A881466A8EA9EC7F@Bandli1>

Hello Ty:

That was actually a Delta II launched from Vandenberg:

http://www.skywise711.com/astro/index.html


-----------------------------------
Mike Bandli
Historic Meteorites
www.HistoricMeteorites.com
IMCA #5765
-----------------------------------------------

-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of power
ofunity
Sent: Saturday, December 19, 2009 10:48 AM
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: [meteorite-list] Anyone see the Fireball over Pacific
nearSummerland/Santa Barbara Monday Morning?

Did anyone here see a bolide explode over the Pacific ocean near
Summerland/Santa Barbara on Monday morning, Dec. 14 approximately 6:20 am?
?
I was traveling north on Hwy 101 south of Santa Barbara as a passenger, and
the driver and I saw a glowing fireball trailing thick smoke out of the
driver's window.? She asked me if it was a plane, but then it exploded, the
largest piece was traveling away, still glowing but getting dimmer, and then
it lost all light, and appeared to drop straight down.? There were smaller
pieces visible that left spiral smoke trails away from the main smoke
cloud.? Several cars were stopped a few miles up the road,? and people were
outside watching;? I was hoping someone on the list was a witness, but I
have not seen any reports here. 

Sorry about the delayed?post, my previous attempts bounced.

Ty


      
______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From fuzzfoot at comcast.net  Sat Dec 19 14:17:41 2009
From: fuzzfoot at comcast.net (Mike Bandli)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 11:17:41 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Anyone see the Fireball over Pacific
	nearSummerland/Santa Barbara Monday Morning?
In-Reply-To: <195339.6000.qm@web59004.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
References: <389184.24797.qm@web59006.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
	<1101BB9004BB4B98A881466A8EA9EC7F@Bandli1>
	<195339.6000.qm@web59004.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <984A2A4A0F5C4563B83284FEF0E5880D@Bandli1>

Actually, that's not my site, but yes, a real treat.


-----Original Message-----
From: power ofunity [mailto:energylightandlove at yahoo.com] 
Sent: Saturday, December 19, 2009 11:07 AM
To: Mike Bandli
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Anyone see the Fireball over Pacific
nearSummerland/Santa Barbara Monday Morning?

Hi Mike - 

Thanks for the quick link...and your thorough site, a real treat.


Ty



----- Original Message ----
From: Mike Bandli <fuzzfoot at comcast.net>
To: power ofunity <energylightandlove at yahoo.com>;
meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Sat, December 19, 2009 10:52:32 AM
Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Anyone see the Fireball over Pacific
nearSummerland/Santa Barbara Monday Morning?

Hello Ty:

That was actually a Delta II launched from Vandenberg:

http://www.skywise711.com/astro/index.html


-----------------------------------
Mike Bandli
Historic Meteorites
www.HistoricMeteorites.com
IMCA #5765
-----------------------------------------------

-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of power
ofunity
Sent: Saturday, December 19, 2009 10:48 AM
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: [meteorite-list] Anyone see the Fireball over Pacific
nearSummerland/Santa Barbara Monday Morning?

Did anyone here see a bolide explode over the Pacific ocean near
Summerland/Santa Barbara on Monday morning, Dec. 14 approximately 6:20 am?
?
I was traveling north on Hwy 101 south of Santa Barbara as a passenger, and
the driver and I saw a glowing fireball trailing thick smoke out of the
driver's window.? She asked me if it was a plane, but then it exploded, the
largest piece was traveling away, still glowing but getting dimmer, and then
it lost all light, and appeared to drop straight down.? There were smaller
pieces visible that left spiral smoke trails away from the main smoke
cloud.? Several cars were stopped a few miles up the road,? and people were
outside watching;? I was hoping someone on the list was a witness, but I
have not seen any reports here. 

Sorry about the delayed?post, my previous attempts bounced.

Ty


? ? ? 
______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


      



From abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com  Sat Dec 19 14:47:41 2009
From: abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com (Abdelaziz Alhyane)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 11:47:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD : New gorgeous CO3
In-Reply-To: <404417.88663.qm@web45411.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <168777.68078.qm@web45411.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Dear List Members,
 My CO3 is confirmed by Dr. Anthony Irving and this is what he said :

AA-K  CO3 chondrite (W3)

Small chondrules.  Olivine (Fa0-55), minor enstatite, chromite, kamacite, taenite, troilite.

This is authentic stone.

My best
Aziz


--- On Fri, 12/18/09, Abdelaziz Alhyane <abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Abdelaziz Alhyane <abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] AD : New gorgeous CO3
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Friday, December 18, 2009, 6:40 PM
> Dear List members,
>  If you are looking for a very nice and very cheap CO3, I
> have for sale a 133g uniq CO3 carbonaceous stone , the best
> price ever offred, for price and photos, catact me off list
> please. this is you Xmas gift
> My best
> Aziz
> 
> 
> ? ? ? 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      



From damoclid at yahoo.com  Sat Dec 19 16:12:52 2009
From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 13:12:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December
	19, 2009
In-Reply-To: <000001ca80cd$95d9cb50$07b22959@name86d88d87e2>
Message-ID: <164340.47205.qm@web113609.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

> From: Martin Altmann <altmann at meteorite-martin.de>

> Girls present us boys always with
> clothing???:-(
> 

HA!

You're not with the right girls!

:)

Richard


      


From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net  Sat Dec 19 16:30:43 2009
From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 15:30:43 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fried egg crater!
References: <20091218094834.7UJNY.315578.root@web02-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com>
Message-ID: <C3062A1A579E4B8FB83365004A5D3CFB@ATARIENGINE2>

Chuck, Graham, List,

My first thought on seeing the crater candidate
was how much its broad flat "uplift" actually looked
like the so-called "pancake domes" of Venus, believed
to formed by an outflow of "slushy" viscous silica-rich
lava.

I wondered if there were "pancake domes" on Earth.
(Venus I know; the Earth's a mystery.) Particularly,
I wondered if there were pancake domes under the
sea. If this was a pancake dome, the very shallow rim
would merely be the edge of a subsided plain around
the eruption site, and so on.

It turns out there ARE pancake domes under the
Earth's sea (and on land). They're called "cow-patty"
sea-mounts (a more "Earthy" metaphor). They are
usually about 3 km in diameter (the size of this
dome feature).

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Venus'+pancakes:+a+seafloor+analog%3F-a014998062
    "Supporting these ideas, researchers pointed out
that the pancake domes on Venus bear at least a superficial
resemblance to silica-rich volcanic landforms on Earth.
These include the flattened domes near Mono Lake,
California.
    But a detailed comparison now shows that the volcanic
domes on Earth typically measure one-tenth the width of
those on Venus and have a much rougher terrain, reports
Magellan researcher Jeffrey J. Plaut of NASA's Jet Propulsion
Laboratory. Instead, the pancake features may have more
in common with volcanoes on our planet's seafloor.
    Independent analyses by Nathan T. Bridges, who
conducted his work at the U.S. Geological Survey in
Menlo Park, Calif., and Susan E.H. Sakimoto of Johns
Hopkins University in Baltimore suggest that several flat,
steep-sided seamounts share similarities with the domes
on Venus. These seafloor volcanoes -- sometimes dubbed
'cow patties' because of their flattened appearance -- have
a size, shape, and smoothness akin to the pancake domes,
according to recent sonar data.
    The Earth's seafloor and the surface of Venus have a
key feature in common: Both are under high pressure.
Although the pressure on the ocean bottom exceeds that
exerted by Venus' thick atmosphere, the seafloor may in
fact mimic parts of the Venusian environment better than
any other site in the solar system, Bridges speculates.
Sakimoto suggests that heat transport and the eruption
of magma on the seafloor are similar to such activity on
parts of Venus.
    Because the seamounts are made by basalt, partly
solidified basalt might have the viscosity to create the
flat-top domes, Sakimoto notes..."


Sterling K. Webb
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <ensoramanda at ntlworld.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 3:48 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fried egg crater!


> Hi All,
>
> Another possible crater/craters...not good hunting territory though!
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8400264.stm
>
> Graham UK
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com  Sat Dec 19 17:47:58 2009
From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 14:47:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] joe's meteorwrong
Message-ID: <371365.10807.qm@web57805.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Hi again list.I just got my 165 gram double cut/ endcut of joe's wrong.It has the same outside texture,to me,that chinga has.It looks like a piece of chinga I used to have.There are 2 sides cut that makes for breathtaking viewing.The metal?streaks just jet up and down and thru the stone.Highly magnetic,like and iron meteorite.Diffently a must have for $1 a gram.I still have my 75 gram endcut still if interested in buying.To me it is better looking than shirkovsky and putarano.
?Steve R. Arnold, Chicago!! chicagometeorites.net/ 


From cmb62 at columbus.rr.com  Sat Dec 19 17:16:53 2009
From: cmb62 at columbus.rr.com (Charley)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 17:16:53 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] From Tibet to the edge of The Universe and back in
	6:31
In-Reply-To: <mailman.33.1261242039.43024.meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
References: <mailman.33.1261242039.43024.meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
Message-ID: <D740A0F3C1D84A1081DD5527CACAFE60@HAL1>

Hi List,

Here is a very cool video from The American Museum of Natural History 
showing a journey from Tibet to the edge of The Universe and back.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17jymDn0W6U

Happy Holidays everyone !

Best regards,

Charley

"Well, squids don't work. Hey! Let's
  try elephants !"

                    Hannibal





From gmhupe at htn.net  Sat Dec 19 18:08:52 2009
From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 18:08:52 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD : New gorgeous CO3
References: <168777.68078.qm@web45411.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <796F769FBBE844FAA3759C6D5B0F6F55@Gregor>

Hello Aziz,

OK, if you sent this sample to Dr. Irving, what is the NWA number? What 
further analysis by supporting scientists and/or laboratories that are 
needed to confirm such a "meteorite" as you advertise. In my own experience 
and conversations with Dr. Irving and other scientists, they ALWAYS insist 
that oxygen isotope studies by other labs to 'confirm' their initial (not 
FINAL) analysis of a sample, whether by you or other people.

We see through your Smoke-n-Mirror advertising and are not going to accept 
sub-standard behavior if you guys (Moroccans) are going to sell your wares 
to us without proof. You can spout off names, but the bottom line is proof 
and accountability. If, and more often than not, you guys sells us crap, do 
you refund us our money? "NO"! "I give you credit to good stone later, Mr. 
GReg!" ,,, typical reply.

You Moroccan stone traders want to be accepted by the world meteorite 
community as being legitimate, but your continuous behavior reveals you 
worry nothing more than lining your pockets with cash and care nothing about 
meteorites. To translate, one of my favorite Moroccan's best phrase is, "I 
do not collect meteorites, I collect money!" I find this very accurate with 
almost all Moroccan's I have worked with over the last 10 years. Sad!

I have heard way too many stories of people being ripped off by Moroccan 
Stone Traders! I am completely tired of their crap! Maybe time to speak up a 
little more...

Greg


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Abdelaziz Alhyane" <abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 19, 2009 2:47 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD : New gorgeous CO3


Dear List Members,
 My CO3 is confirmed by Dr. Anthony Irving and this is what he said :

AA-K  CO3 chondrite (W3)

Small chondrules.  Olivine (Fa0-55), minor enstatite, chromite, kamacite, 
taenite, troilite.

This is authentic stone.

My best
Aziz


--- On Fri, 12/18/09, Abdelaziz Alhyane <abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Abdelaziz Alhyane <abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] AD : New gorgeous CO3
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Friday, December 18, 2009, 6:40 PM
> Dear List members,
>  If you are looking for a very nice and very cheap CO3, I
> have for sale a 133g uniq CO3 carbonaceous stone , the best
> price ever offred, for price and photos, catact me off list
> please. this is you Xmas gift
> My best
> Aziz
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>




______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list




From majbaermann at web.de  Sat Dec 19 18:16:03 2009
From: majbaermann at web.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Matthias_B=E4rmann?=)
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 00:16:03 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] From Tibet to the edge of The Universe and
	back in6:31
References: <mailman.33.1261242039.43024.meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
	<D740A0F3C1D84A1081DD5527CACAFE60@HAL1>
Message-ID: <7D44EA5E93E44F3985D0EFD36297561A@thinkcentre>

That's great, Charley, thank you, and A Merry Christmas!

(What a relief, compared with Mr. Chicago-Arnold's current self-revelation.)

Best regards,

Matthias Baermann

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Charley" <cmb62 at columbus.rr.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 19, 2009 11:16 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] From Tibet to the edge of The Universe and back 
in6:31


> Hi List,
>
> Here is a very cool video from The American Museum of Natural History 
> showing a journey from Tibet to the edge of The Universe and back.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17jymDn0W6U
>
> Happy Holidays everyone !
>
> Best regards,
>
> Charley
>
> "Well, squids don't work. Hey! Let's
>  try elephants !"
>
>                    Hannibal
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From darryl at dof3.com  Sat Dec 19 18:49:39 2009
From: darryl at dof3.com (Darryl Pitt)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 18:49:39 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December
	19, 2009
In-Reply-To: <822da19a0912190925q4b5a7b3dkee4725f615944fe6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1040148506.247261261231305110.JavaMail.root@mbs1.homesteadmail.com>
	<822da19a0912190925q4b5a7b3dkee4725f615944fe6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CCCD6F7A-64BF-4C96-B6E3-7C6BE21276E0@dof3.com>




Hiya!

A list member was inquiring about the imilac and wanted to see pics.   
I cajoled our bookkeeper to help out and realized there is one other  
use for this pic that comes to mind....    ;-)


Merry Christmas!   d,

=======

On Dec 19, 2009, at 12:49 PM, Dennis Miller wrote:

> Very brave!!!  1)holding it over a hard sidewalk and 2)no armed guards
> escorting her and that $400,000 plus, wonderful stone.  I just love  
> her!

Dennis, love your pricing---if it were only true!!!

========

On Dec 19, 2009, at 6:19 PM, Michael Blood wrote:

>  La Fuente has, perhaps, the best guacamole available in the US,


Cap'n Blood---thar's a bold statement! (Arrrgggh, if it were only  
true!   ;-)








On Dec 19, 2009, at 12:25 PM, Dark Matter wrote:

> Darryl?
>
> On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 7:01 AM, Michael Johnson
> <michael at rocksfromspace.org> wrote:
>> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/December_19_2009.html
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From marcin at meteoryt.net  Sat Dec 19 18:55:11 2009
From: marcin at meteoryt.net (Marcin Cimala)
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 00:55:11 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD : New gorgeous CO3
References: <168777.68078.qm@web45411.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
	<796F769FBBE844FAA3759C6D5B0F6F55@Gregor>
Message-ID: <792A86359DA64D3AA1407786EDB9BE91@polandmezrd5i9>


Hi
Oh Greg, did we need another fight here? For sure not.
I dont see any problem in this that he trying to sell anything. If You dont 
trust him, dont buy, its Your money.
You must be sure what You buy, otherwise its not his (morocans) fault that 
You will buy, a eart rock. And for this we dont need Dr. X or Prof Y. They 
will not help us in Morocco to decide what to buy.
ech


-----[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-----[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]-----
http://www.Meteoryty.pl             marcin(at)meteoryty.pl
http://www.PolandMET.com       marcin(at)polandmet.com
http://www.Gao-Guenie.com      GSM: +48 (793) 567667
--------[ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society ]--------


> Hello Aziz,
>
> OK, if you sent this sample to Dr. Irving, what is the NWA number? What 
> further analysis by supporting scientists and/or laboratories that are 
> needed to confirm such a "meteorite" as you advertise. In my own 
> experience and conversations with Dr. Irving and other scientists, they 
> ALWAYS insist that oxygen isotope studies by other labs to 'confirm' their 
> initial (not FINAL) analysis of a sample, whether by you or other people.
>
> We see through your Smoke-n-Mirror advertising and are not going to accept 
> sub-standard behavior if you guys (Moroccans) are going to sell your wares 
> to us without proof. You can spout off names, but the bottom line is proof 
> and accountability. If, and more often than not, you guys sells us crap, 
> do you refund us our money? "NO"! "I give you credit to good stone later, 
> Mr. GReg!" ,,, typical reply.
>
> You Moroccan stone traders want to be accepted by the world meteorite 
> community as being legitimate, but your continuous behavior reveals you 
> worry nothing more than lining your pockets with cash and care nothing 
> about meteorites. To translate, one of my favorite Moroccan's best phrase 
> is, "I do not collect meteorites, I collect money!" I find this very 
> accurate with almost all Moroccan's I have worked with over the last 10 
> years. Sad!
>
> I have heard way too many stories of people being ripped off by Moroccan 
> Stone Traders! I am completely tired of their crap! Maybe time to speak up 
> a little more...
>
> Greg
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Abdelaziz Alhyane" <abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com>
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Saturday, December 19, 2009 2:47 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD : New gorgeous CO3
>
>
> Dear List Members,
> My CO3 is confirmed by Dr. Anthony Irving and this is what he said :
>
> AA-K  CO3 chondrite (W3)
>
> Small chondrules.  Olivine (Fa0-55), minor enstatite, chromite, kamacite, 
> taenite, troilite.
>
> This is authentic stone.
>
> My best
> Aziz
>
>
> --- On Fri, 12/18/09, Abdelaziz Alhyane <abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com> 
> wrote:
>
>> From: Abdelaziz Alhyane <abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com>
>> Subject: [meteorite-list] AD : New gorgeous CO3
>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Date: Friday, December 18, 2009, 6:40 PM
>> Dear List members,
>>  If you are looking for a very nice and very cheap CO3, I
>> have for sale a 133g uniq CO3 carbonaceous stone , the best
>> price ever offred, for price and photos, catact me off list
>> please. this is you Xmas gift
>> My best
>> Aziz
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From freequarks at gmail.com  Sat Dec 19 19:27:10 2009
From: freequarks at gmail.com (Dark Matter)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 17:27:10 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Engineering Christmas
Message-ID: <822da19a0912191627v3c64aaf2o3e72ebb436786595@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All,

Once again, it seems it has befallen upon me uphold the job of official Santa
Physics story reposter. So, in the true spirit of the season, here it
is yet again.

And as always, I have not checked the math.

Enjoy.

Martin


Engineering Christmas: Some points of contention.

There are approximately two billion children (persons under 18) in the
world. However, since Santa does not visit children of Muslim, Hindu,
Jewish or Buddhist religions, this reduces the workload for Christmas
night to 15% of the total, or 378 million (according to the Population
Reference Bureau). At an average (census) rate of 3.5 children per
household, that comes to 108 million homes, presuming that there is at
least one good child in each dwelling.

Santa has about 31 hours of Christmas to work with thanks to the
different time zones and the rotation of the earth, assuming he
travels east to west which seems logical. This works out to 967.7
visits per second. This is to say that for each Christian household
with a good child, Santa has about 1/1000th of a second to park the
sleigh, hop out, jump down the chimney, fill the stockings, distribute
the remaining presents under the tree, eat whatever snacks have been
left for him, get back up the chimney, jump into the sleigh and get on
to the next house. Assuming that each of these 108 million stops is
evenly distributed around the earth (which of course, we know to be
false, but will accept for the purpose of our calculations), we are
now talking about 0.78 miles per household; a total trip of 75.5
million miles, not counting bathroom stops or other breaks.

This requires that Santa's sleigh moves at 650 miles per second--3000
times the speed of sound. For purposes of comparison, the fastest
man-made vehicle, the Ulysses space probe, moves at a poky 27.4 miles
per second, and conventional reindeer can run at best 30 miles per
hour.

The payload of the sleigh adds another interesting element. Assuming
that each child gets nothing more than a medium sized Lego set (two
pounds), the sleigh is carrying over 500,000 tons, not counting Santa
himself. On land a conventional reindeer can pull about 300 pounds.
Even granting that the "flying" reindeer could pull ten times the
normal amount, the job just cannot be done with eight or nine of
them-- Santa would need 360,000 reindeer!

This increases the payload, not counting the weight of the sleigh,
another 54,000 tons or roughly seven times the weight of the Queen
Elizabeth (the ship, not the monarch).

4.600,000 tons traveling at 650 miles per second creates enormous air
resistance-- this would heat up the reindeer in the same fashion as
spacecraft re-entering the earth's atmosphere (which may explain
Rudolph's red nose). The lead pair of reindeer would absorb 14.3
quintillion joules of energy per second. In short, they would
instantaneously vaporize exposing the reindeer behind them to the same
friction and also creating deafening sonic booms in their wake. The
entire reindeer team would vanish within 4.26 thousandths of a second,
or right about the time Santa reached the fifth house on his trip.

Not that it matters, however since Santa, as a result of accelerating
from a dead stop to 650 miles per second in .001 seconds, would be
subjected to centrifugal forces of 17,500 Gs. A 250 pound Santa (which
seems ludicrously slim) would be pinned to the back of the sleigh by
4,315,015 pounds of force, instantly crushing his bones and organs and
reducing him to a quivering red-hot blob of goo. And yet, he returns
year after year.

Therefore, the rules of physics obviously don't apply to Santa and his
yearly mission. Speaking as an engineer, this guy must know something
about relativity that we have yet to discover.

HO, HO, OC.


From pshugar at clearwire.net  Sat Dec 19 19:40:00 2009
From: pshugar at clearwire.net (Pete Shugar)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 18:40:00 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Engineering Christmas
References: <822da19a0912191627v3c64aaf2o3e72ebb436786595@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAC85BF670E14ABFB45F9A171E04FF87@laptop>

Einstein would give his eye teeth to ride with the jolly
red coat.
Pete

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dark Matter" <freequarks at gmail.com>
To: "Meteorite List" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 19, 2009 6:27 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Engineering Christmas


> Hi All,
>
> Once again, it seems it has befallen upon me uphold the job of official 
> Santa
> Physics story reposter. So, in the true spirit of the season, here it
> is yet again.
>
> And as always, I have not checked the math.
>
> Enjoy.
>
> Martin
>
>
> Engineering Christmas: Some points of contention.
>
> There are approximately two billion children (persons under 18) in the
> world. However, since Santa does not visit children of Muslim, Hindu,
> Jewish or Buddhist religions, this reduces the workload for Christmas
> night to 15% of the total, or 378 million (according to the Population
> Reference Bureau). At an average (census) rate of 3.5 children per
> household, that comes to 108 million homes, presuming that there is at
> least one good child in each dwelling.
>
> Santa has about 31 hours of Christmas to work with thanks to the
> different time zones and the rotation of the earth, assuming he
> travels east to west which seems logical. This works out to 967.7
> visits per second. This is to say that for each Christian household
> with a good child, Santa has about 1/1000th of a second to park the
> sleigh, hop out, jump down the chimney, fill the stockings, distribute
> the remaining presents under the tree, eat whatever snacks have been
> left for him, get back up the chimney, jump into the sleigh and get on
> to the next house. Assuming that each of these 108 million stops is
> evenly distributed around the earth (which of course, we know to be
> false, but will accept for the purpose of our calculations), we are
> now talking about 0.78 miles per household; a total trip of 75.5
> million miles, not counting bathroom stops or other breaks.
>
> This requires that Santa's sleigh moves at 650 miles per second--3000
> times the speed of sound. For purposes of comparison, the fastest
> man-made vehicle, the Ulysses space probe, moves at a poky 27.4 miles
> per second, and conventional reindeer can run at best 30 miles per
> hour.
>
> The payload of the sleigh adds another interesting element. Assuming
> that each child gets nothing more than a medium sized Lego set (two
> pounds), the sleigh is carrying over 500,000 tons, not counting Santa
> himself. On land a conventional reindeer can pull about 300 pounds.
> Even granting that the "flying" reindeer could pull ten times the
> normal amount, the job just cannot be done with eight or nine of
> them-- Santa would need 360,000 reindeer!
>
> This increases the payload, not counting the weight of the sleigh,
> another 54,000 tons or roughly seven times the weight of the Queen
> Elizabeth (the ship, not the monarch).
>
> 4.600,000 tons traveling at 650 miles per second creates enormous air
> resistance-- this would heat up the reindeer in the same fashion as
> spacecraft re-entering the earth's atmosphere (which may explain
> Rudolph's red nose). The lead pair of reindeer would absorb 14.3
> quintillion joules of energy per second. In short, they would
> instantaneously vaporize exposing the reindeer behind them to the same
> friction and also creating deafening sonic booms in their wake. The
> entire reindeer team would vanish within 4.26 thousandths of a second,
> or right about the time Santa reached the fifth house on his trip.
>
> Not that it matters, however since Santa, as a result of accelerating
> from a dead stop to 650 miles per second in .001 seconds, would be
> subjected to centrifugal forces of 17,500 Gs. A 250 pound Santa (which
> seems ludicrously slim) would be pinned to the back of the sleigh by
> 4,315,015 pounds of force, instantly crushing his bones and organs and
> reducing him to a quivering red-hot blob of goo. And yet, he returns
> year after year.
>
> Therefore, the rules of physics obviously don't apply to Santa and his
> yearly mission. Speaking as an engineer, this guy must know something
> about relativity that we have yet to discover.
>
> HO, HO, OC.
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From grf2 at comcast.net  Sat Dec 19 19:52:04 2009
From: grf2 at comcast.net (Jerry Flaherty)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 19:52:04 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Engineering Christmas
References: <822da19a0912191627v3c64aaf2o3e72ebb436786595@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <48A043F470A84D97BD3C0271FFECC6CA@ASUS>

" However, since Santa does not visit children of Muslim, Hindu,
Jewish or Buddhist religions"
Hmmmm, In light of the current state of global tensions, we may have to 
revise Santa's preferential circuit. We ought to form a committee!

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Dark Matter" <freequarks at gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 19, 2009 7:27 PM
To: "Meteorite List" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Subject: [meteorite-list] Engineering Christmas

> Hi All,
>
> Once again, it seems it has befallen upon me uphold the job of official 
> Santa
> Physics story reposter. So, in the true spirit of the season, here it
> is yet again.
>
> And as always, I have not checked the math.
>
> Enjoy.
>
> Martin
>
>
> Engineering Christmas: Some points of contention.
>
> There are approximately two billion children (persons under 18) in the
> world. However, since Santa does not visit children of Muslim, Hindu,
> Jewish or Buddhist religions, this reduces the workload for Christmas
> night to 15% of the total, or 378 million (according to the Population
> Reference Bureau). At an average (census) rate of 3.5 children per
> household, that comes to 108 million homes, presuming that there is at
> least one good child in each dwelling.
>
> Santa has about 31 hours of Christmas to work with thanks to the
> different time zones and the rotation of the earth, assuming he
> travels east to west which seems logical. This works out to 967.7
> visits per second. This is to say that for each Christian household
> with a good child, Santa has about 1/1000th of a second to park the
> sleigh, hop out, jump down the chimney, fill the stockings, distribute
> the remaining presents under the tree, eat whatever snacks have been
> left for him, get back up the chimney, jump into the sleigh and get on
> to the next house. Assuming that each of these 108 million stops is
> evenly distributed around the earth (which of course, we know to be
> false, but will accept for the purpose of our calculations), we are
> now talking about 0.78 miles per household; a total trip of 75.5
> million miles, not counting bathroom stops or other breaks.
>
> This requires that Santa's sleigh moves at 650 miles per second--3000
> times the speed of sound. For purposes of comparison, the fastest
> man-made vehicle, the Ulysses space probe, moves at a poky 27.4 miles
> per second, and conventional reindeer can run at best 30 miles per
> hour.
>
> The payload of the sleigh adds another interesting element. Assuming
> that each child gets nothing more than a medium sized Lego set (two
> pounds), the sleigh is carrying over 500,000 tons, not counting Santa
> himself. On land a conventional reindeer can pull about 300 pounds.
> Even granting that the "flying" reindeer could pull ten times the
> normal amount, the job just cannot be done with eight or nine of
> them-- Santa would need 360,000 reindeer!
>
> This increases the payload, not counting the weight of the sleigh,
> another 54,000 tons or roughly seven times the weight of the Queen
> Elizabeth (the ship, not the monarch).
>
> 4.600,000 tons traveling at 650 miles per second creates enormous air
> resistance-- this would heat up the reindeer in the same fashion as
> spacecraft re-entering the earth's atmosphere (which may explain
> Rudolph's red nose). The lead pair of reindeer would absorb 14.3
> quintillion joules of energy per second. In short, they would
> instantaneously vaporize exposing the reindeer behind them to the same
> friction and also creating deafening sonic booms in their wake. The
> entire reindeer team would vanish within 4.26 thousandths of a second,
> or right about the time Santa reached the fifth house on his trip.
>
> Not that it matters, however since Santa, as a result of accelerating
> from a dead stop to 650 miles per second in .001 seconds, would be
> subjected to centrifugal forces of 17,500 Gs. A 250 pound Santa (which
> seems ludicrously slim) would be pinned to the back of the sleigh by
> 4,315,015 pounds of force, instantly crushing his bones and organs and
> reducing him to a quivering red-hot blob of goo. And yet, he returns
> year after year.
>
> Therefore, the rules of physics obviously don't apply to Santa and his
> yearly mission. Speaking as an engineer, this guy must know something
> about relativity that we have yet to discover.
>
> HO, HO, OC.
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From azizhabibi at yahoo.com  Sat Dec 19 21:18:32 2009
From: azizhabibi at yahoo.com (habibi abdelaziz)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 18:18:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] morrocans
Message-ID: <470320.76252.qm@web62008.mail.re1.yahoo.com>




do we need this in this list,you do not? think sincerly that its enough poisin here, and its holidays and we need better thing to talk about
did you give to this man a chance to talk,
he say dr tony irving have seen it, what else do you want,

he could say he is selling an unclasified meteorite that is probably a co3 and its done ,
question of term and rules,

but this is going to much hard, why have you to include the morrocans , they are 10 or 15 dealer from 1000, in this list
why have you to generalise this,
i think that we need more civisme and respect in this list
there is many way to ask a person a question
1= please how do you know its a co3;
2= please give me information of your based opinion,
3= do not give me nothing? i do not want to give you a chance to talk , im angry,,,

4= its enough

morrocans are selling unclassified meteorite, and some are selling classified one its for him to decide if he wnat to go true the process of classification or not,

well if someone found a meteorite in brazil or china do you ask him classification;; no you jump on aeroplane and you go to see and by your eyes you take the decision to buy,

ok , let's ask the morrocan to make classification all of them and to sell in ebay and to not sell wholesale , what , other dealer will do find an other job,

let be sincere and rationnel;

enough is enough,,,,

and one thing important, let's not be ashamed by our own words,? if someone by luck get into this list and read the archives ,
he will ask one question
why they are treating morrocans like slaves????
?is this a racist list????or some member are racist??
and why they are not answring???? 
and why no one in this list members react,or answer,??????????

think about it

if this continue this way i will queit this list and i will be ashamed that my son read by mistake what is hapenning in this list..


sincerly, this is a civic polite interferation in your ongoing discussion, and i do like to stop it here ,
?no more off this , as we will fell down further;; and it doens't go well with our academique list,

by the time i tell myself do not write this bad term in the list may be;;;?dr x or sir y will read this and think? is a very down level,
i m not , i do see many email that i need to answer them but i tell to myself? stop it you do not need this in?your journey,

?calm down and let the morrocan in peace they are doing a good job and they are selling very cheap, and bringing a lot of wonderfull stone to the collector
and they are? very honnest and i never heard in morroco that any dealer morrocan ripped of anyone,

cr2 in 1999 was selling for 1500$/gr now 20$ the poor collectors 
lunar in 1999 was selling for 15000$ now 600$_1000$? the? poor collector
this is the market, and i m happy for the collector;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;


i hope we do not see here a kind of? big big R



      


From abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com  Sat Dec 19 21:48:30 2009
From: abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com (Abdelaziz Alhyane)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 18:48:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD : New gorgeous CO3
In-Reply-To: <796F769FBBE844FAA3759C6D5B0F6F55@Gregor>
Message-ID: <976707.17671.qm@web45401.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Now I like you, you show me a little of MAn being, I don't need to tell people who you are because they already know you, and if you follow Moroccans who put food on your table, you will lose for sure, you are making yourself a joke.
And I hope all Moroccan do not sell you meteorites, I am so happy I never had a deal with, I was lucky I did came you way, I would just be a victime.
I know that Habibi's Nakhlit kicked you out, the same for Monzogabbro and many other planetaries, another one one is on the way "this one wiil make you very sad" you have my word.
 Before you say "moroccans" go wash your mouth with pur honey then say it.
I can' wait to see you out of NWA meteorites, And I'm happy for other meteorites dealers who respect us, we offer them any type meteorites for the best prices. and they are very thankful for their trust and honesty,
I hope that Moroccans stop selling you meteorites and if you are a MAN, don't buy anymore from Morocco.
Time to hit the hay
Thanks to everybody who emailed and support me, your emails are confidential.
Aziz
  
 

--- On Sat, 12/19/09, Greg Hupe <gmhupe at htn.net> wrote:

> From: Greg Hupe <gmhupe at htn.net>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD : New gorgeous CO3
> To: "Abdelaziz Alhyane" <abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com>, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Saturday, December 19, 2009, 3:08 PM
> Hello Aziz,
> 
> OK, if you sent this sample to Dr. Irving, what is the NWA
> number? What further analysis by supporting scientists
> and/or laboratories that are needed to confirm such a
> "meteorite" as you advertise. In my own experience and
> conversations with Dr. Irving and other scientists, they
> ALWAYS insist that oxygen isotope studies by other labs to
> 'confirm' their initial (not FINAL) analysis of a sample,
> whether by you or other people.
> 
> We see through your Smoke-n-Mirror advertising and are not
> going to accept sub-standard behavior if you guys
> (Moroccans) are going to sell your wares to us without
> proof. You can spout off names, but the bottom line is proof
> and accountability. If, and more often than not, you guys
> sells us crap, do you refund us our money? "NO"! "I give you
> credit to good stone later, Mr. GReg!" ,,, typical reply.
> 
> You Moroccan stone traders want to be accepted by the world
> meteorite community as being legitimate, but your continuous
> behavior reveals you worry nothing more than lining your
> pockets with cash and care nothing about meteorites. To
> translate, one of my favorite Moroccan's best phrase is, "I
> do not collect meteorites, I collect money!" I find this
> very accurate with almost all Moroccan's I have worked with
> over the last 10 years. Sad!
> 
> I have heard way too many stories of people being ripped
> off by Moroccan Stone Traders! I am completely tired of
> their crap! Maybe time to speak up a little more...
> 
> Greg
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Abdelaziz Alhyane"
> <abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com>
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Saturday, December 19, 2009 2:47 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD : New gorgeous CO3
> 
> 
> Dear List Members,
> My CO3 is confirmed by Dr. Anthony Irving and this is what
> he said :
> 
> AA-K? CO3 chondrite (W3)
> 
> Small chondrules.? Olivine (Fa0-55), minor enstatite,
> chromite, kamacite, taenite, troilite.
> 
> This is authentic stone.
> 
> My best
> Aziz
> 
> 
> --- On Fri, 12/18/09, Abdelaziz Alhyane <abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > From: Abdelaziz Alhyane <abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com>
> > Subject: [meteorite-list] AD : New gorgeous CO3
> > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > Date: Friday, December 18, 2009, 6:40 PM
> > Dear List members,
> >? If you are looking for a very nice and very
> cheap CO3, I
> > have for sale a 133g uniq CO3 carbonaceous stone , the
> best
> > price ever offred, for price and photos, catact me off
> list
> > please. this is you Xmas gift
> > My best
> > Aziz
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ______________________________________________
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 
> 
> 


      



From gracie at sheverb.com  Sat Dec 19 22:01:23 2009
From: gracie at sheverb.com (gracie)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 22:01:23 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Engineering Christmas
In-Reply-To: <822da19a0912191627v3c64aaf2o3e72ebb436786595@mail.gmail.com>
References: <822da19a0912191627v3c64aaf2o3e72ebb436786595@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <64520.70.171.14.161.1261278083.squirrel@www.sheverb.com>

This is my first holiday season on the list and the first time I've seen
this.

Outstanding!

> Hi All,
>
> Once again, it seems it has befallen upon me uphold the job of official
> Santa
> Physics story reposter. So, in the true spirit of the season, here it
> is yet again.
>
> And as always, I have not checked the math.
>
> Enjoy.
>
> Martin
>
>
> Engineering Christmas: Some points of contention.
>
> There are approximately two billion children (persons under 18) in the
> world. However, since Santa does not visit children of Muslim, Hindu,
> Jewish or Buddhist religions, this reduces the workload for Christmas
> night to 15% of the total, or 378 million (according to the Population
> Reference Bureau). At an average (census) rate of 3.5 children per
> household, that comes to 108 million homes, presuming that there is at
> least one good child in each dwelling.
>
> Santa has about 31 hours of Christmas to work with thanks to the
> different time zones and the rotation of the earth, assuming he
> travels east to west which seems logical. This works out to 967.7
> visits per second. This is to say that for each Christian household
> with a good child, Santa has about 1/1000th of a second to park the
> sleigh, hop out, jump down the chimney, fill the stockings, distribute
> the remaining presents under the tree, eat whatever snacks have been
> left for him, get back up the chimney, jump into the sleigh and get on
> to the next house. Assuming that each of these 108 million stops is
> evenly distributed around the earth (which of course, we know to be
> false, but will accept for the purpose of our calculations), we are
> now talking about 0.78 miles per household; a total trip of 75.5
> million miles, not counting bathroom stops or other breaks.
>
> This requires that Santa's sleigh moves at 650 miles per second--3000
> times the speed of sound. For purposes of comparison, the fastest
> man-made vehicle, the Ulysses space probe, moves at a poky 27.4 miles
> per second, and conventional reindeer can run at best 30 miles per
> hour.
>
> The payload of the sleigh adds another interesting element. Assuming
> that each child gets nothing more than a medium sized Lego set (two
> pounds), the sleigh is carrying over 500,000 tons, not counting Santa
> himself. On land a conventional reindeer can pull about 300 pounds.
> Even granting that the "flying" reindeer could pull ten times the
> normal amount, the job just cannot be done with eight or nine of
> them-- Santa would need 360,000 reindeer!
>
> This increases the payload, not counting the weight of the sleigh,
> another 54,000 tons or roughly seven times the weight of the Queen
> Elizabeth (the ship, not the monarch).
>
> 4.600,000 tons traveling at 650 miles per second creates enormous air
> resistance-- this would heat up the reindeer in the same fashion as
> spacecraft re-entering the earth's atmosphere (which may explain
> Rudolph's red nose). The lead pair of reindeer would absorb 14.3
> quintillion joules of energy per second. In short, they would
> instantaneously vaporize exposing the reindeer behind them to the same
> friction and also creating deafening sonic booms in their wake. The
> entire reindeer team would vanish within 4.26 thousandths of a second,
> or right about the time Santa reached the fifth house on his trip.
>
> Not that it matters, however since Santa, as a result of accelerating
> from a dead stop to 650 miles per second in .001 seconds, would be
> subjected to centrifugal forces of 17,500 Gs. A 250 pound Santa (which
> seems ludicrously slim) would be pinned to the back of the sleigh by
> 4,315,015 pounds of force, instantly crushing his bones and organs and
> reducing him to a quivering red-hot blob of goo. And yet, he returns
> year after year.
>
> Therefore, the rules of physics obviously don't apply to Santa and his
> yearly mission. Speaking as an engineer, this guy must know something
> about relativity that we have yet to discover.
>
> HO, HO, OC.
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>




From abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com  Sat Dec 19 22:01:57 2009
From: abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com (Abdelaziz Alhyane)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 19:01:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] morrocans
In-Reply-To: <470320.76252.qm@web62008.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <424426.24910.qm@web45401.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Hey Aziz,

"""do we need this in this list,you do not  think sincerly that its enough poisin here, and its holidays and we need better thing to talk about
did you give to this man a chance to talk,
he say dr tony irving have seen it, what else do you want,"""
 
Yes we do need it more than greg, let's talk and say the fact and tell people who we are and give them the freedom to decide, in earlier 2005, we have had a plan to meet with greg at Zagoura, I did tell some friends, I was surprised what they said then, they said, be carefull with greg.
I'm glade most of people of here trust us and they always encourage and keep buying from us. greg has a very weathered mentality and we can do nothing to change that fact, but let's just wish him good things althought he hates us and we don't acre. heh

--- On Sat, 12/19/09, habibi abdelaziz <azizhabibi at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: habibi abdelaziz <azizhabibi at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] morrocans
> To: "meteorite list" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Date: Saturday, December 19, 2009, 6:18 PM
> 
> 
> 
> do we need this in this list,you do not? think sincerly
> that its enough poisin here, and its holidays and we need
> better thing to talk about
> did you give to this man a chance to talk,
> he say dr tony irving have seen it, what else do you want,
> 
> he could say he is selling an unclasified meteorite that is
> probably a co3 and its done ,
> question of term and rules,
> 
> but this is going to much hard, why have you to include the
> morrocans , they are 10 or 15 dealer from 1000, in this
> list
> why have you to generalise this,
> i think that we need more civisme and respect in this list
> there is many way to ask a person a question
> 1= please how do you know its a co3;
> 2= please give me information of your based opinion,
> 3= do not give me nothing? i do not want to give you a
> chance to talk , im angry,,,
> 
> 4= its enough
> 
> morrocans are selling unclassified meteorite, and some are
> selling classified one its for him to decide if he wnat to
> go true the process of classification or not,
> 
> well if someone found a meteorite in brazil or china do you
> ask him classification;; no you jump on aeroplane and you go
> to see and by your eyes you take the decision to buy,
> 
> ok , let's ask the morrocan to make classification all of
> them and to sell in ebay and to not sell wholesale , what ,
> other dealer will do find an other job,
> 
> let be sincere and rationnel;
> 
> enough is enough,,,,
> 
> and one thing important, let's not be ashamed by our own
> words,? if someone by luck get into this list and read the
> archives ,
> he will ask one question
> why they are treating morrocans like slaves????
> ?is this a racist list????or some member are racist??
> and why they are not answring???? 
> and why no one in this list members react,or
> answer,??????????
> 
> think about it
> 
> if this continue this way i will queit this list and i will
> be ashamed that my son read by mistake what is hapenning in
> this list..
> 
> 
> sincerly, this is a civic polite interferation in your
> ongoing discussion, and i do like to stop it here ,
> ?no more off this , as we will fell down further;; and it
> doens't go well with our academique list,
> 
> by the time i tell myself do not write this bad term in the
> list may be;;;?dr x or sir y will read this and think? is
> a very down level,
> i m not , i do see many email that i need to answer them
> but i tell to myself? stop it you do not need this in?your
> journey,
> 
> ?calm down and let the morrocan in peace they are doing a
> good job and they are selling very cheap, and bringing a lot
> of wonderfull stone to the collector
> and they are? very honnest and i never heard in morroco
> that any dealer morrocan ripped of anyone,
> 
> cr2 in 1999 was selling for 1500$/gr now 20$ the poor
> collectors 
> lunar in 1999 was selling for 15000$ now 600$_1000$? the?
> poor collector
> this is the market, and i m happy for the
> collector;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
> 
> 
> i hope we do not see here a kind of? big big R
> 
> 
> 
> ? ? ? 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      



From michael at rocksfromspace.org  Sat Dec 19 22:06:51 2009
From: michael at rocksfromspace.org (Michael Johnson)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 19:06:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: GRAND FINALE! Over 200 items at 50% off. The
 last Sale Of The Year!
Message-ID: <168104691.288041261278411902.JavaMail.root@mbs1.homesteadmail.com>

Michael Cottingham is having trouble posting and asked me to send this out:

THE GRAND FINALE! Many Items NEVER reduced this low!

SEE ALL ITEMS ON SALE IN MY STORE!
http://stores.ebay.com/voyage-botanica-natural-history

Best Wishes To All!

Michael Cottingham



Regards,
Michael Johnson
http://www.rocksfromspace.org



From gmhupe at htn.net  Sat Dec 19 22:27:05 2009
From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 22:27:05 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] morrocans
References: <470320.76252.qm@web62008.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <DECA42A15998481F898DA2DBEEB295BB@Gregor>

Hello Aziz #1,

Wow! Where should I start!!!??? Calling the kettle black... please do not 
tempt me to talk about the practices of of our 'fair' Moroccans. Give me a 
freakin' Break!!! My bottom line, if you continue to f__k me and my friends, 
I will continue to share the wealth of of info... wrippin' us off! I have 
nothing to hide but am willing to contribute to the truth!

Bring it!!!
Greg






From mlblood at cox.net  Sat Dec 19 22:31:16 2009
From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael Blood)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 19:31:16 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD abuse?
In-Reply-To: <168104691.288041261278411902.JavaMail.root@mbs1.homesteadmail.com>
Message-ID: <C752DA84.9FAB%mlblood@cox.net>

Hi Michael & All,
        Has it occurred to you that MC may be banned from the list
For abusing frequency of advertising? (Art never announces someone
Is banned). 
        I immediately signed up for MC's list of advertising when he
Said he was going to stop his "presence" on the list.
        If he is banned and people continue to post his ads, that is sort
Of spitting in Art's face.
        I would suggest you contact Art before advertising for people who
Were dramatically over-advertising and suddenly find themselves having
"difficulty posting to the list."
        It may be he is NOT banned - but it would be advisable to check with
Art.
        I encourage people to sign up for his advertising - and for my list,
too, for that matter.
        Best wishes, Michael


On 12/19/09 7:06 PM, "Michael Johnson" <michael at rocksfromspace.org> wrote:

> Michael Cottingham is having trouble posting and asked me to send this out:
> 
> THE GRAND FINALE! Many Items NEVER reduced this low!
> 
> SEE ALL ITEMS ON SALE IN MY STORE!
> http://stores.ebay.com/voyage-botanica-natural-history
> 
> Best Wishes To All!
> 
> Michael Cottingham
> 
> 
> 
> Regards,
> Michael Johnson
> http://www.rocksfromspace.org
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list




From pshugar at clearwire.net  Sat Dec 19 23:00:46 2009
From: pshugar at clearwire.net (Pete Shugar)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 22:00:46 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Re Tahoka
Message-ID: <62347345C0A74C2E95648A23BCAFB2F8@laptop>

Does anybody have the skinny scoop on the 
gillions of sales of the Texas Meteorite
Tahoka from Lynn County Texas?
There are almost always a Fleabay
auction for Tahoka, but it's conspicuous
absence from the Met-Bul gives me the Willies.
Is this a verboden meteorite per IMCA 
guidelines???????
Pete IMCA 1733


From parkforestmet at hotmail.com  Sun Dec 20 00:37:39 2009
From: parkforestmet at hotmail.com (bill kies)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 23:37:39 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Steve Arnold (Elgin). Man of his word.
Message-ID: <SNT102-W11F992C7060501DA8187F4A2830@phx.gbl>



[meteorite-list] i'm sorry
SSTEVE ARNOLD
Thu, 02 May 2002 20:31:01 -0700
Hey all, Steve here. I'm sorry for all the postings. I'll keep them down to a low roar from now on. Again I'm sorry. Just to let everyone know, I finally have the ESQUEL pictures.
Thank you for e-mailing me, and have a great day!
Steve Arnold, Chicago! 
 
Sun, 17 Jul 2005 09:03:40 -0700
I do really feel ashamed for the crap I have given
this list... 
Then when I got on the list,I realized I was part of something
even bigger that could get me noticed even more.Well that backed fired
because of my big ego.And yes I do have a big ego.And it has gotten me
into alot of trouble in my life.But I really do want to make ammends with
the few list members with whom I have totally have disrespected.I really
hope to earn your respect again by being true to my action by my apology
yesterday.This is a sincere email of totally being apologitic.I will
maintain from here out,nothing but meteorite related content that will
serve only the interest of everyone on this list and anyone associated to
this list...
I really hope
there is not a gone way over the line,I really so hope that I can win back
all the list members that I have really hurt.Again I am truly sorry.From
now any sales,ebay,givaways,or non-meteorite items will strictly be done
on another list that was meant to be for that reason,I will post to
that.And here is promise I will keep and you can truly count on,if I do
post something like I just stated,I will unsubscribe from this list.
Please again
accept my  humble apology for my disrepectful actions and attitudes.
 

2007/06/18  I promise to follow the meteorite rules from now on as well.Can we all do that?? Steve R.Arnold,chicago,Ill,Usa!!

Sunday, March 12, 2006 4:51 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] last day of sale/I am sorry/AD
Good morning list.I have gotten some rather nasty emails about my
continued spamming of the list with my sales.I do apologize for the
continued mess.I was very stressed out when I did what I did.But after
sometime out to reflect where I want to go,it became clear what is more
important.PEOPLE! After
this sale I will become invisible for a while.I will continue to go by
art's rules.But lately I noticed othe r people have disobeyed them as
well.Again I am sorry.
 

Sat, 23 Jun 2007 06:35:09 -0700
I have decided that
this will be my very last round of freebies.

2005/07/17 Hello list I will be short.I want to apoligize to all the good
people on this list for my brash email I sent this morning.There was no harm
intended.It was plain stupid.I should have just kept it private.From now
on,no more sales,no more trades,no more givaways,no more jokes,just
METEORITES.I -- Steve Arnold, Chicago!!!
 
campos sales sale
Tue, 22 Mar 2005 00:29:51 -0800
Steve Arnold, Chicago!!! wrote:
I VOW there will be no more on these
or any subject regarding these stones.Come and get 'em!!
 
Then there was:
Hi again list.I made a mistake on the 527 gram piece.It is the 492 gram
pioece that has the flow lines and the lipping.Not the 527 gram piece.That
is my mistake, for that I apoligize.One has already been sold, so keep 'em
coming.
Then AGAIN there was:
Hi again list.I have just a few of the CAMPOS SALES pieces left forsale at
$2.00 a gram.The 492 gram flow lined specimen is gone,as well as the 449
gram dark crusted piece, as well as the 107 gram piece.I thank those who
bought them.I also have the 373 gram individual with 95% crust still as
well as the 563 gram 2 fragmented pieces and a few more.Get now while they
are hot to go.Sorry for this post,but I am happy to see them going.Chime
in and take one home.The price will never be finer.
Then .... said:
I think Steve has very clearly demonstated how much respect he has for
us.
Which is NONE! It will never stop like "Ground Hog Day", "50 First Dates", "Muppet's Beaker does Chicago Again and Again and Again"...when will it end? NEVER! I kept my promise to keep lurking, but Steve brought me out again at his own request. More bragging....more spam....more acting innnocent and ignorant. Guess I "chimed in". 

I was born at night....but not last night!
Arrrrgh!!!!
 
Fri, 03 Jun 2005 20:39:13 -0700
SSSSTTEEVVEEY:
NAYSAYER #1 HERE.....This is the clearest example yet of what many list 
members have been trying to stop.  
Your e-mail:
Hello list.It is time to blow off some steam tonight toward some list
members.People are betting with each other when I blow my promises about
psoting with another means. ("ANOTHER MEANS"...WHAT THE HELL DID YOU JUST 
SAY???) (IT REALLY SAYS SOMETHING ABOUT YOU SSTTOORRMMBBRRIINNGGEERR WHEN YOU 
HAVE BEEN CATEGORIZED AS A BUFFOON BY THE MAJORITY OF A SCIENTIFIC LIST, 
BREAKING 
PROMISES SO OFTEN THAT PEOPLE WAGER ON HOW QUICKLY YOU WILL BREAK YOUR 
PROMISES, AND ALSO SHOWS HOW MUCH YOU TOTALLY DISRESPECT THE LIST BY YOUR 
CONTINUED 
POSTINGS) ow I think that is down right moronic (PRETTY FUNNY STATEMENT COMING 
FROM YOU.  YOU DEFINE THE TERM MORONIC).People
still bug me about my givaways.Why I just do not know.( THIS IS THE CRUX 
(LOOK IT UP) OF YOUR PROBLEM.  YOU KEEP WRITING THAT YOU DO NOT KNOW WHY PEOPLE 
DO 
THE THINGS THEY DO TOWARDS YOU...YOU ARE EITHER 1. DUMB AS DISHWATER, 2. IN 
SERIOUS AND PATHOLOGICAL DENIAL, 3. YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT YOUR NEGATIVE IMPACT 
TOWARDS THE LIST, AND YOU DISRESPECT THE LIST BY CONTINUING TO POST YOUR 
IDIOTIC INANE MESSAGES, 4. YOU ARE DUMBER THAN DISHWATER, E. ALL OF THE ABOVE.  
I 
CHOOSE "E"....) It really pains me to have to block email address because all 
some list members want to do is
harras me for posting to much (SPELLCHECK BROKEN AGAIN??...I HAVE SAID THIS 
BEFORE, AND I WILL KEEP SAYING IT.  YOU HARASS HUNDREDS OF GOOD,  RULES ABIDING 
LIST MEMBERS WITH YOUR POSTS SEVERAL TIMES A DAY. PEOPLE WRITE YOU IN LARGE 
NUMBERS BECAUSE YOU CONTINUE TO ACT LIKE A MORON, AND THEY WANT YOU TO STOP.  
CAN THIS BE ANY CLEARER?????) )Now when I post this, there will probably be
50 more emails condemning me for this.Well you can see where the
immaturaty(SPELLCHECK?) lies. (YES.."IT" LIES IN ELGIN ILLINOIS.  THE MAN IN 
THE HOT PANTS ON THE ILLINOIS METEORITES WEBSITE) In 2 days I will be going to 
mexico for a nice 10
days.Away from computers,cell phones, tv everything that is electronic.(THANK 
GOD.  10 DAYS AND NO SSTTEEVVEEYY POSTS)..It
will be a nicely deserverd (SPELLCHECK?) vacation.I also know some of you 
will be
estatic (SPELLCHECK?).Well despite the indifferences (WHAT?  DO YOU KNOW WHAT 
THIS WORD MEANS??  LIST MEMBERS ARE NOT INDIFFERENT TOWARDS YOU.  4 PEOPLE 
LIKE YOU, THE REST CAN'T STAND YOU..NO INDIFFERENCE HERE) that some list 
members 
have with
me,I will not be detered (SPELLCHECK??) from speaking my mind. (THERE IS THAT 
DENIAL THING AGAIN!  NO AMOUNT OF NEGATIVE FEEDBACK FROM MANY LIST MEMBERS 
WILL DETER YOU FROM RUINING THIS GREAT LIST..WE ARE JUST A BUNCH OF NAYSAYING 
"ANTI-STEVE" PEOPLE THAT HAVE RANDOMLY CHOSEN YOU AS OUR SCORNED TARGET. LOOK 
IN 
THE MIRROR.  YOU ARE NOT WANTED HERE) As far as I am concerned I
have done nothing wrong (OF COURSE NOT.  ACCORDING TO YOU, YOU HAVE NEVER 
DONE ANYTHING WRONG.  WE JUST LIKE PICKING ON YOU.  HOW ABOUT THAT IMCA THING?? 
 
DID THE PEOPLE THAT YOU HOSED THINK THAT YOU DID NOTHING WRONG?),and I still 
have never done anything to anyone to
warrant continue harrasment (SPELLCHECK???) from certain list members. (NOT 
INNOCENT DENIAL BOY SSTTEEVVEEYY.  HE HAS NEVER DONE ANYTHING WRONG...GO 
AWAY!!!!) People call me DUMB F***,A**HOLE,DUMBA**,MENTAL MIDGET,STUPID 
MORON,etc. 
(YOU LEFT OUT SO MANY...YOUR LIST IS ONLY 10% COMPLETE) This is coming from
people with whom I have met and talked and drank meteorites. (SO YOU ARE 
ADMITTING THAT EVEN PEOPLE THAT YOU THOUGHT LIKED YOU CAN'T STAND YOU NOW 
BECAUSE 
OF WHAT YOU ARE DOING TO THE LIST...DON'T YOU GET THE HINT?????)I  just do not
know (YOU MUST BE JOKING AGAIN!!!) where the attitude has come from in just a 
short time towards me.  (GO BACK AND READ THE LIST ARCHIVES OF YOUR IDIOTIC 
SPAMMER POSTS....YOU HAVE 0 CREDIBILITY!!!) It
is amazing! (NO, YOUR LIVING IN DENIAL IS AMAZING!!!) Well I also know that I 
have my fan base out there. (4 PEOPLE OF OF SEVERAL HUNDRED DOES NOT 
CONSTITUTE A FAN BASE) I really
want to thank them for thier (SPELLCHECK??) support. (WRITE ALL 4 OF THEM 
PRIVATELY OFF LIST.  SPARE THE LIST) I know if the posting becomes a small
roar, and not a huge roar, I might win back some of those people whom
continue to boycott me. (AFTER ALL YOU HAVE DONE TO TRY AND SINGLE-HANDEDLY 
RUIN THE LIST, YOU THINK PEOPLE ARE GOING TO LINE UP AND ASSUME THAT 
SSSTTEEVVEEY THE HUMAN SERIAL PROMISE BREAKER IS GOING TO CHANGE HIS 
SPOTS???..HAHAHAHAHA, BEST ONE I HAVE HEARD TODAY) .......Well I have enjoyed 
doing the givaways 
(SPELLCHECK???), (INGRATIATING YOURSELF BY BUYING YOUR WAY IN) I have
enjoyed selling on ebay, (NICE PICS!!!) and I have enjoyed selling to people 
as well.Also
I just want to put to rest one thing.I have NEVER,NEVER cut or broken any
of my meteorites, to givaway as freebies.(BS) These pieces were either
broken,or I just gave away the whole piece.NO CUT OR BROKEN PIECES.I
treasure these other worldly pieces from space just as much as the next
collecter. (YOU ARE THE ONLY PERSON ANYONE KNOWS THAT HAS HAD THE UNFORTUNATE 
BREAKING OF SO MANY PIECES.  YOU HAVE WRITTEN THE LIST ABOUT THEM 
BREAKING..IF YOU CARED, THEY WOULD NOT BE BROKEN) I have nothing to apoligize 
(spellcheck??) for to anyone,unless I have done
something wrong. (THE APOLOGY RECEIVING LINE IS LONG AND DISTINGUISHED) Well 
that is my steam vent venting and it has cooled
down. (GOSH SSTTEEVEEYY....WE ALL FEEL SO MUCH BETTER NOW)I hope everyone has 
a great weekend and week ahead,and I look forward
to posting again when I get back. (DENIAL BOY....WE ALL KNOW THAT YOU WILL 
NEVER CHANGE.  YOU WILL KEEP SELFISHLY DISRESPECTING THIS WONDEFUL LIST BECAUSE 
YOU ARE A SERIAL POSTER AND YOU THINK YOU ARE A REAL METEORITE STUD...YOU ARE 
NOT..PLEASE GO AWAY!!!) .I will also have pictures to post on my
website of my vacation. (HONEY, GET THE OLD STYLE BEER AND THE 
TWINKIES...BIGGG STTORMBBRINNGER STTEEVEY WILL BE POSTING HIS VACATION PICS IN 
10 DAYS....
 
[meteorite-list] (AD) another trade offer
steve arnold
Wed, 29 Nov 2006 05:22:27 -0800
Hi list.I know I should have made this with the other
post,but I only came up with the idea today.Again I am
sorry to the naysayers out there.I have a 159 gram
endcut of MUNDRABILLA with a hole and is etched.It
also has the very nice color on the backside of a
typical mundrabilla.I am looking for stones or
meso's.How about some nice GAO.Let me know
offlist.Thanks again,and I am sorry.
steve
Steve R.Arnold,chicago,Ill,Usa!!
 
[meteorite-list] the last one
Steve Arnold, Chicago!!!
Mon, 26 Aug 2002 05:07:41 -0700
You all have made your points. I know how you all feel. I'm sorry for
posting you. No more posts!!!
=====
Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, 60120
I. M. C. A. MEMBER #6728
The Midwest Meteorite Collector!
 
[meteorite-list] its over for me
Steve Arnold, Chicago!!
Mon, 06 Mar 2006 13:19:00 -0800
Hello list.It is a sad day for me.I have decided to leave meteorites.I am
putting up most of my collection forsale.I will keep a few speciemns,but
by large,most will be up forsale.I will put up on my website what I will
be selling.Let me know what you want and I will get back to you.Again it
has been a fun ride.I have met alot of great people,but it is better to
leave this hobby with my head held up high.And I am sorry to have offened
anyone.

                             steve arnold,chicago,usa
Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, 60120
 
 [meteorite-list] spamming
Steve Arnold, Chicago!!!
Tue, 23 Jul 2002 21:06:49 -0700
Hi all. I have been accused of spamming on the list. I want to apologize
to you all. Someone does not like me! In the future I'll post on another
list. I do not want to bring this good group down in the mud. So please
forgive me. I just want to get along with everyone. Only 2 of you have met
me. I'm not a bad person. If I have offended you by my spamming I'm sorry.
Everyone please have a good night.
                                                       Steve
 
[meteorite-list] An open message to all list members
Sun, 27 Aug 2006 12:09:35 -0700
To all list members,
 
I?m sure most of you have seen my emails relating to the misrepresentations
and falsehoods perpetrated by Steve (Chicago) Arnold in his ads and posts.
First of all, let me apologize to the list membership for making these
emails public and in effect, loading up your mailboxes.  I believe there is
good reason, however, for making these emails public.  It is for that reason
I felt I should explain some of the background issues and provide my
rationale below.
 
Everyone on this list has invested a lot of time, effort, and most
importantly, money in their respective meteorite collections.  I personally
take great umbrage at anyone who would jeopardize my collection, either
directly or indirectly, by casting ANY doubt on ANY facet or aspect of
collecting meteorites.  The process of buying and selling meteorites and the
specimens themselves ALL have to be genuine and above reproach at ALL times
 
We also have a number of list members who make their living by selling
meteorites.  I won?t even begin to speak for them, but I?ve seen several of
these folks get down and dirty at any potential threat to their livelihood?.
and rightfully so.
 
My issue with Steve (Chicago) Arnold is that he just doesn?t care what he
puts in his ads.  In July, when I first caught his ads containing
misrepresentations and falsehoods, he told me:
 
 
?WHAT IS IT TO YOU??  MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS.?
 
 
I ask you all?. What kind of reply is that?  What does that tell you about
Steve (Chicago) Arnold?s integrity and morals?
 
Today, I noticed a misrepresentation on one of his eBay sales and mentioned
it on the list (as I previously promised I would --- see below).  Again, I
received these rather disturbing comments from Steve.
 
 
?I REALLY WISH YOU WOULD STOP HARRASING ME ABOUT THIS PETTY BULL****.?
[replaced with * so as to not offend]
 
?I AM TIRED OF PEOPLE CONTINOUSLY HARRISING ME FOR NO REASON.?
 
?IT IS NOT YOUR PURPOSE IN LIFE TO POLICE ME OR EBAY,OR ANYONE ELSE IN THIS
WORLD EXCEPT YOURSELF.ENOUGH OF THIS BULL****.?  [replaced with * so as to
not offend]
 
 
I?m sorry, but if anyone thinks that perpetrating misrepresentations and
falsehoods when selling meteorites is ?PETTY BULL****? or that calling it to
his attention is ?HARRISING ME FOR NO REASON? then WE as a community have
REAL problems.  This poor pathetic act of his is a scam.  I invite all list
members to go back to the archives and look at Steve?s MO.  If anyone
catches him doing something he shouldn?t, he immediate screams that he is
being harassed.
 
OK, so why am I getting involved in this?  I see Steve (Chicago) Arnold as a
direct threat to this great hobby (and in some cases, livelihood) of ours
and also more specifically to the time, effort, and money I?ve invested in
my collection.  As I told Steve several weeks ago:
 
 
?You're a dangerous person, Steve.  You're a danger to any and ALL
legitimate dealers, sellers, and collectors of meteorites.  You're like the
auto industry back 40-50 years ago.  They used to misrepresent and make
false claims about the safety of their vehicles and then, along came a man
named Nader.
 
I gave you fair warning in two previous emails that I was 1) going to make
it my business "MAKING SURE UNSUSPECTING POTENTIAL BUYERS ARE AWARE OF YOUR
LIES" and 2)  "any recurrence will again be brought out in a public forum".
 
You now have my undivided attention.  I've going to be your own personal
Ralph Nader.  Every time you post a misleading/untruthful/fraudulent ad, I'm
going to expose it... publicly.  You're a loose canon on deck and someone
needs to expose you for what you are.?
 
 
I told Steve today, that he could stop my posts if he would just stop the
misrepresentations and falsehoods.
 
Some of you might be thinking that I?m just picking on Steve.  Well, in all
honesty, I?ve gone after several other sellers on eBay who have done the
same thing (and I'll continue to do so).  The responses I got back from them
was typically something like? Oh, I?m sorry.  I made a mistake and will
correct it immediately.  Watching these individuals over time and you don?t
see a recurrence.  In other words, it was a one-time, honest mistake.  Steve
(Chicago) Arnold has my undivided attention because he does this repeatedly
and responds with comments like ?WHAT IS IT TO YOU??  MIND YOUR OWN
BUSINESS.?
 
Again, I apologize to all list members for these emails.  I?m hoping the
publicity and peer pressure will convince Steve (Chicago) Arnold develop a
different set of morals.
 
[meteorite-list] apology
STEVE ARNOLD
Sun, 12 Jan 2003 19:01:52 -0800
Hi list. It seems some people on this list are on me again for to much"SPAMMING".I seem to owe everyone an apology. Iam going to tucson as a novice as far as the social and know;edge part of this great hobby. I want people to like me and accept me for who I am. I will really try to tone it down in the future. Icannot help my aggresive nature. That is who I am as a person. And I am not going to change for anyone. But I am sorry for the few who do not like me because of my SPAMMING. I will try and tone it down in the future. I just love this hobby so much. Again I apoligize for my over agressiveness.
                                                   steve arnold, chicago
Steve r. Arnold, Chicago, il, 60107
The midwest meteorite collector!
I.M.C.A. member #6728
Website url http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com
 
Fri, 27 May 2005 18:30:21 -0700
Original message from "Steve Arnold, Chicago!!!" <[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]>: -------------- 

> Hello list.I guess it was another ANTI-STEVE BASHING DAY for what I saw on 
> the 40 or more emails I got.Well I am taking the advise of mr.herr martin 
> and take my sales to YAHOOGROUPS to make advertisements concerning 
> meteorites.I am truly sorry for all the socalled spam I have been giving 
> the list.It will not happen anymore.I should have done this along time 
> ago.I KNOW what this list is for.And you are right, 30 emails concerning 
> the same thing in 1 month is to much.Well with that said, I hope all my 
> american friends have a very nice and safe holiday. 
> 
> steve arnold, chicago 
> 
> Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, 60120 
> 
> 
> Illinois Meteorites,Ltd!
 
[meteorite-list] nwa 176 - or: Playing dead will NOT work
Thu, 30 Sep 2004 16:17:13 -0700
Hi Steve,
sorry that I have to choose this way to contact you, but you are
ignoring all my emails and play dead.
Steve, when I buy two items from you and you just send me one, I get a
little bit disturbed. When I tell you that one is missing and you tell
me you sent both, although my girl friend has seen me unpacking your
mail and finding just one piece, I get more disturbed. But when you then
ignore all my emails that ask you to resolve that matter, I get angry.
And I am very angry now.
It's not about the loss of $20 for me. It's about lack of character,
betrayal and a CONTINUED story of playing foul.
May I remind you of the tricks you played with your sale lately? When
you offered bigger and bigger discounts, but at the same time raised
base prices so the items became more expensive in reality? You ducked
and covered when I found out your malpractice. You can't duck and cover
now.
Steve, either send me the missing NWA 067, refund my money or lose one
of your few remaining friends. It's up to you. Choose wisely.
 
[meteorite-list] clarafication on my meteorite sale and other matters
Steve Arnold, Chicago!!!
Thu, 30 Sep 2004 18:06:54 -0700
Hello list.I want to clarify my meteorite sale to everyone.If you go ahead
and pic 3 specimens you want,lets say, for $40, $50, and $60.You have
$150.You divide by 3 and that is what you pay.$50 plus shipping.I am
really sorry for goof.I know that I sometimes hurt myself with the way I
type.I want to apoligize for my rudeness.I'll try to pay more attention to
this matter in the future.Also on a side note,I remedied the situation
with xxxxxxxx xxxx.Also one more item,I do not like public insults on the
list.If you want to tell me something, please do it in private.I would
never stoop to anything like that.Again please forgive my computer
stupidisy.
 
on 8/25/02 7:03 PM, xxxx at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>> Hi xxxxx and all,
>>
>> Although I hate to address this issue, xxxxx is 100% right in his
assessment
>> of Steve
>> Arnold from Chicago. When Steve started posting to the list, I tried to
help
>> him out
>> and tell him what the list was for. I even tried to suggest some lists
that
>> might be
>> more for what he was trying to do. I received a very arrogant (and
nasty)
>> message back
>> from him saying he would pretty much do what he wanted to do and it was
free
>> enterprise and he could post what he wanted to the list. I then informed
him
>> he would
>> be filtered from my emails from that time on and he has been. The only
time I
>> know
>> something is going on is when someone quotes or responds to his email on
the
>> list.
>> Even these are too frequent!
>>
>> It wasn't long until he was asked to tone down the posts. He hasn't
listen and
>> won't.
>> I agree that he is probably a nice guy in some ways and I think he is
>> passionate about
>> collecting but he doesn't get what the list is for. If he thinks he is
getting
>> picked
>> on, it is because he doesn't listen to reason.
>>
>> Steve, I hope you will listen this time around but I doubt it.
>>
>> Sorry to list members who have been offended but I am offended by
someone who
>> disrupts
>> the list time and time again because he can't listen to what is being
said.
>> Anyone can
>> look at the list rules and I think it is pretty clear that Steve has
taken
>> advantage
>> and push his luck far too often.
  		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222986/direct/01/

From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Sun Dec 20 03:39:30 2009
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 00:39:30 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Steve Arnold (Elgin). Man of his word.
In-Reply-To: <SNT102-W11F992C7060501DA8187F4A2830@phx.gbl>
References: <SNT102-W11F992C7060501DA8187F4A2830@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4B2DE2C2.3040104@meteoritesusa.com>

What exactly is your point?  (rhetorical of course) Who's the one with 
the problem? The one who apologizes for some of the things they've done, 
or the one who points out the faults of others and consistently posts 
negative comments and BS with an obvious prejudice that no one wants to 
read, and all in all never contributes anything but negativity to the 
list. Must have taken a while to compile the "apologies". What have you 
contributed to the list that can be deemed the least bit noteworthy or 
positive beside brash attempts at slamming other on the list? Nothing 
that I've seen...

But then again I didn't search through 7 years of posts to make my point 
either...

Regards,
Eric


From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com  Sun Dec 20 03:57:31 2009
From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton)
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 00:57:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Steve Arnold (Elgin). Man of his word.
In-Reply-To: <4B2DE2C2.3040104@meteoritesusa.com>
Message-ID: <368498.41541.qm@web46402.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

I just would like to add something to this...

My experience with Chicago Steve has ALWAYS been good.
He has given me many "freebies" and has also purchased from me, but yet has NEVER asked for anything in return. No discounts, no special deals, nothing.
I have bought from him, received the meteorites in a very prompt time and they have been as described.
Thats my experience.

What I have seen in my limited time on the list...

He offers a great deal of wonderful meteorites, FREE to those that want them. 
Sure, he may break the rules from time to time, but no worse then others have/do, and far less severity then many have done.
A few people are ready to jump all over him for posting too much, yet remain silent while others do it.
Add to that the 10-15 posts about his post, makes for 1--15x as much emails to deal with.

While I am not taking any sides in this, I just felt the need to express my thoughts.


Hope everyone is doing well.

Greg C.
www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com
IMCA member 4682


--- On Sun, 12/20/09, Meteorites USA <eric at meteoritesusa.com> wrote:

> From: Meteorites USA <eric at meteoritesusa.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Steve Arnold (Elgin). Man of his word.
> To: "bill kies" <parkforestmet at hotmail.com>
> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Sunday, December 20, 2009, 3:39 AM
> What exactly is your point??
> (rhetorical of course) Who's the one with the problem? The
> one who apologizes for some of the things they've done, or
> the one who points out the faults of others and consistently
> posts negative comments and BS with an obvious prejudice
> that no one wants to read, and all in all never contributes
> anything but negativity to the list. Must have taken a while
> to compile the "apologies". What have you contributed to the
> list that can be deemed the least bit noteworthy or positive
> beside brash attempts at slamming other on the list? Nothing
> that I've seen...
> 
> But then again I didn't search through 7 years of posts to
> make my point either...
> 
> Regards,
> Eric
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      


From aidmohamed at rocketmail.com  Sun Dec 20 07:32:40 2009
From: aidmohamed at rocketmail.com (Aid Mohamed)
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 04:32:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD : New gorgeous CO3
Message-ID: <503754.36337.qm@web111213.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Hello List;
  As a Maroccan dealer; I'm very disappointed to hear what Greg said; be sure if you continue on this way you will be the first loser; , if you have a  particular aim, so lets tell us: please don't beat about the bush! also it's impossible to sell just for you lonely, because you bought from many dealer, if you don't have intention to buy from us, it's not worth.
 what did you wrote in Meteorite-list shouldn't be written because there are trust and honest dealers,collectors... even in Europe, US also Morocco... don't generalise!!!
be sure that you have a bad reputation in Morocco, let's give you a simpl example: when I want to buy from nomads; they asked me this question: do you want to sell this material to Greg?
as a Maroccan dealer, my reply should be like? this. its normal
best regards
Aid

--- On Sun, 12/20/09, Abdelaziz Alhyane <abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Abdelaziz Alhyane <abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD : New gorgeous CO3
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, "Greg Hupe" <gmhupe at htn.net>
> Date: Sunday, December 20, 2009, 2:48 AM
> Now I like you, you show me a little
> of MAn being, I don't need to tell people who you are
> because they already know you, and if you follow Moroccans
> who put food on your table, you will lose for sure, you are
> making yourself a joke.
> And I hope all Moroccan do not sell you meteorites, I am so
> happy I never had a deal with, I was lucky I did came you
> way, I would just be a victime.
> I know that Habibi's Nakhlit kicked you out, the same for
> Monzogabbro and many other planetaries, another one one is
> on the way "this one wiil make you very sad" you have my
> word.
>  Before you say "moroccans" go wash your mouth with pur
> honey then say it.
> I can' wait to see you out of NWA meteorites, And I'm happy
> for other meteorites dealers who respect us, we offer them
> any type meteorites for the best prices. and they are very
> thankful for their trust and honesty,
> I hope that Moroccans stop selling you meteorites and if
> you are a MAN, don't buy anymore from Morocco.
> Time to hit the hay
> Thanks to everybody who emailed and support me, your emails
> are confidential.
> Aziz
> ? 
>  
> 
> --- On Sat, 12/19/09, Greg Hupe <gmhupe at htn.net>
> wrote:
> 
> > From: Greg Hupe <gmhupe at htn.net>
> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD : New gorgeous CO3
> > To: "Abdelaziz Alhyane" <abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com>,
> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > Date: Saturday, December 19, 2009, 3:08 PM
> > Hello Aziz,
> > 
> > OK, if you sent this sample to Dr. Irving, what is the
> NWA
> > number? What further analysis by supporting
> scientists
> > and/or laboratories that are needed to confirm such a
> > "meteorite" as you advertise. In my own experience
> and
> > conversations with Dr. Irving and other scientists,
> they
> > ALWAYS insist that oxygen isotope studies by other
> labs to
> > 'confirm' their initial (not FINAL) analysis of a
> sample,
> > whether by you or other people.
> > 
> > We see through your Smoke-n-Mirror advertising and are
> not
> > going to accept sub-standard behavior if you guys
> > (Moroccans) are going to sell your wares to us
> without
> > proof. You can spout off names, but the bottom line is
> proof
> > and accountability. If, and more often than not, you
> guys
> > sells us crap, do you refund us our money? "NO"! "I
> give you
> > credit to good stone later, Mr. GReg!" ,,, typical
> reply.
> > 
> > You Moroccan stone traders want to be accepted by the
> world
> > meteorite community as being legitimate, but your
> continuous
> > behavior reveals you worry nothing more than lining
> your
> > pockets with cash and care nothing about meteorites.
> To
> > translate, one of my favorite Moroccan's best phrase
> is, "I
> > do not collect meteorites, I collect money!" I find
> this
> > very accurate with almost all Moroccan's I have worked
> with
> > over the last 10 years. Sad!
> > 
> > I have heard way too many stories of people being
> ripped
> > off by Moroccan Stone Traders! I am completely tired
> of
> > their crap! Maybe time to speak up a little more...
> > 
> > Greg
> > 
> > 
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Abdelaziz
> Alhyane"
> > <abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com>
> > To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> > Sent: Saturday, December 19, 2009 2:47 PM
> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD : New gorgeous CO3
> > 
> > 
> > Dear List Members,
> > My CO3 is confirmed by Dr. Anthony Irving and this is
> what
> > he said :
> > 
> > AA-K? CO3 chondrite (W3)
> > 
> > Small chondrules.? Olivine (Fa0-55), minor
> enstatite,
> > chromite, kamacite, taenite, troilite.
> > 
> > This is authentic stone.
> > 
> > My best
> > Aziz
> > 
> > 
> > --- On Fri, 12/18/09, Abdelaziz Alhyane <abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
> > 
> > > From: Abdelaziz Alhyane <abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com>
> > > Subject: [meteorite-list] AD : New gorgeous CO3
> > > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > > Date: Friday, December 18, 2009, 6:40 PM
> > > Dear List members,
> > >? If you are looking for a very nice and very
> > cheap CO3, I
> > > have for sale a 133g uniq CO3 carbonaceous stone
> , the
> > best
> > > price ever offred, for price and photos, catact
> me off
> > list
> > > please. this is you Xmas gift
> > > My best
> > > Aziz
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ______________________________________________
> > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> > > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ______________________________________________
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> ? ? ? 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      


From rlenssen at planet.nl  Sun Dec 20 07:35:59 2009
From: rlenssen at planet.nl (Rob Lenssen)
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 13:35:59 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Sahara 99704; large 2316g chondrite for sale;
	nice crust
Message-ID: <01AEC68BBCF94665B138428DE303355A@EIGENAARNJEQJY>

Dear List,

I have a special and large unclassified chondrite for sale. Good crust and 
nice shape!
This 2316g stone has been in my collection since 1999, when I bought it at 
the Gifhorn Meteorite Fair, from the Labennes, the finders of this stone.

Please feel free to make me an - off List - offer. The stone will go to the 
best reasonable offer.
I would expect it to go for 0.35-0.50 $/gram or better.
Shipping would be registered from The Netherlands, at actual post office 
costs.

http://home.planet.nl/~rlenssen/Sahara99704.html

Thanks and all the best,
Rob Lenssen
IMCA #1681 



From mlblood at cox.net  Sun Dec 20 07:39:18 2009
From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael Blood)
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 04:39:18 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD abuse?
In-Reply-To: <F603B258-7950-43FE-8BA7-9012FB4DC790@gilanet.com>
Message-ID: <C7535AF6.9FD2%mlblood@cox.net>

Hi Mike J. & Michael C,

        Mike J. - My deepest apologies if what I stated sounded
as though I were condemning you in any way for your passing
on the message as you were asked. I was simply stating that
doing so MAY be a contravention of Art's having blocked MC
for his abundance of advertisements.
        More than one person who has been banned has gotten
friends to post to the list  for him and Art has specifically
Asked we not do that.
        You are, in my opinion, certainly one of the very
Most GIVING of all of us members on the list.

        Michael C, OK, it is clear you are not (fully) banned.
That does not mean restriction of advertising on the list is,
as you put it, "a bunch of bullshit."
        If you read my message you will see I only state facts.
Not having been bombarded with advertising from you of late,
I had erroneously concluded you had likely been banned.
        I am encouraged if you voluntarily have changed
the frequency of using the list for advertising to conform
with list rules. If that is the case, then I commend you.
        If, though, all of your posts that did not get through to the
List were ads, then, perhaps you are partially banned. However,
only Art would know that.
        If you feel further discourse is warranted, I suggest it be done
OFF LIST, as I am confident no one else is interested in reading
about it here. 
        
        Best wishes, Michael
        
On 12/19/09 7:39 PM, "Michael Cottingham" <mikewren at gilanet.com> wrote:

> Michael
> 
> My recent ad to the list went through during the week and sometimes
> some of my other posts, however most do not make it to the list. If
> Art has banned me-than that is news to me. If he is going through my
> posts and allowing only some that is news to me. If I am banned or
> restricted and I do not know about it- what a bunch of bullshit that is.
> 
> Michael Cottingham
> On Dec 19, 2009, at 8:31 PM, Michael Blood wrote:

On 12/19/09 7:48 PM, "michael at rocksfromspace.org"
<michael at rocksfromspace.org> wrote:

> No it did not occur to me!
> Please do not give me a hard time as I was only doing what a friend asked me
> to.
> MJ

On 12/19/09 7:31 PM, "Michael Blood" <mlblood at cox.net> wrote:

> Hi Michael & All,
>         Has it occurred to you that MC may be banned from the list
> For abusing frequency of advertising? (Art never announces someone
> Is banned). 
>         I immediately signed up for MC's list of advertising when he
> Said he was going to stop his "presence" on the list.
>         If he is banned and people continue to post his ads, that is sort
> Of spitting in Art's face.
>         I would suggest you contact Art before advertising for people who
> Were dramatically over-advertising and suddenly find themselves having
> "difficulty posting to the list."
>         It may be he is NOT banned - but it would be advisable to check with
> Art.
>         I encourage people to sign up for his advertising - and for my list,
> too, for that matter.
>         Best wishes, Michael
> 




From dave at fallingrocks.com  Sun Dec 20 10:28:52 2009
From: dave at fallingrocks.com (Dave Gheesling)
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 10:28:52 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Reward...
Message-ID: <7344C344FF1542A2AF37F4D301E56F23@meteorroom>

All,

I'm searching for an original copy of W.M. Foote's 1912 Holbrook monograph:
Preliminary Note on the Shower of Meteoric Stones at Aztec, near Holbrook,
Navajo County, Arizona.

Offering $100 to the first list member connecting me with a resource where I
can purchase one...OFF LIST please.

Thanks much, and Happy Holidays!

Dave

Dave Gheesling
IMCA #5967
www.fallingrocks.com 



From ensaist at gmail.com  Sun Dec 20 10:37:21 2009
From: ensaist at gmail.com (Ahmad bouragaa)
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 16:37:21 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD : New gorgeous CO3
In-Reply-To: <503754.36337.qm@web111213.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <503754.36337.qm@web111213.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2baeaea40912200737l86e97b5uee74d410fb08a359@mail.gmail.com>

hi List:

In fact, the aim of? meteorite List is like a platform of exanching
ideas, crucial information about meteorite ...etc.but the atitude of
Greg is not to provide informations ,so? the meteorite list for him it
's considered like? a place? for? insulting? Moroccan dealers? !
my be if? some collectors had a problems ,they can himselfs took about it ...
and we don't need that someone? put us in contact with others ,already
the dealers knew everthing about us ...a new collectors can just ask
he's friends .
so we have not any problems on what he said .
''if someone tell imperfections ,this imperfections will return on him
one day''' !
best regards
Ahmad

2009/12/20 Aid Mohamed <aidmohamed at rocketmail.com>
>
> Hello List;
> ?As a Maroccan dealer; I'm very disappointed to hear what Greg said; be sure if you continue on this way you will be the first loser; , if you have a ?particular aim, so lets tell us: please don't beat about the bush! also it's impossible to sell just for you lonely, because you bought from many dealer, if you don't have intention to buy from us, it's not worth.
> ?what did you wrote in Meteorite-list shouldn't be written because there are trust and honest dealers,collectors... even in Europe, US also Morocco... don't generalise!!!
> be sure that you have a bad reputation in Morocco, let's give you a simpl example: when I want to buy from nomads; they asked me this question: do you want to sell this material to Greg?
> as a Maroccan dealer, my reply should be like? this. its normal
> best regards
> Aid
>
> --- On Sun, 12/20/09, Abdelaziz Alhyane <abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > From: Abdelaziz Alhyane <abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com>
> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD : New gorgeous CO3
> > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, "Greg Hupe" <gmhupe at htn.net>
> > Date: Sunday, December 20, 2009, 2:48 AM
> > Now I like you, you show me a little
> > of MAn being, I don't need to tell people who you are
> > because they already know you, and if you follow Moroccans
> > who put food on your table, you will lose for sure, you are
> > making yourself a joke.
> > And I hope all Moroccan do not sell you meteorites, I am so
> > happy I never had a deal with, I was lucky I did came you
> > way, I would just be a victime.
> > I know that Habibi's Nakhlit kicked you out, the same for
> > Monzogabbro and many other planetaries, another one one is
> > on the way "this one wiil make you very sad" you have my
> > word.
> > ?Before you say "moroccans" go wash your mouth with pur
> > honey then say it.
> > I can' wait to see you out of NWA meteorites, And I'm happy
> > for other meteorites dealers who respect us, we offer them
> > any type meteorites for the best prices. and they are very
> > thankful for their trust and honesty,
> > I hope that Moroccans stop selling you meteorites and if
> > you are a MAN, don't buy anymore from Morocco.
> > Time to hit the hay
> > Thanks to everybody who emailed and support me, your emails
> > are confidential.
> > Aziz
> >
> >
> >
> > --- On Sat, 12/19/09, Greg Hupe <gmhupe at htn.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > From: Greg Hupe <gmhupe at htn.net>
> > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD : New gorgeous CO3
> > > To: "Abdelaziz Alhyane" <abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com>,
> > meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > > Date: Saturday, December 19, 2009, 3:08 PM
> > > Hello Aziz,
> > >
> > > OK, if you sent this sample to Dr. Irving, what is the
> > NWA
> > > number? What further analysis by supporting
> > scientists
> > > and/or laboratories that are needed to confirm such a
> > > "meteorite" as you advertise. In my own experience
> > and
> > > conversations with Dr. Irving and other scientists,
> > they
> > > ALWAYS insist that oxygen isotope studies by other
> > labs to
> > > 'confirm' their initial (not FINAL) analysis of a
> > sample,
> > > whether by you or other people.
> > >
> > > We see through your Smoke-n-Mirror advertising and are
> > not
> > > going to accept sub-standard behavior if you guys
> > > (Moroccans) are going to sell your wares to us
> > without
> > > proof. You can spout off names, but the bottom line is
> > proof
> > > and accountability. If, and more often than not, you
> > guys
> > > sells us crap, do you refund us our money? "NO"! "I
> > give you
> > > credit to good stone later, Mr. GReg!" ,,, typical
> > reply.
> > >
> > > You Moroccan stone traders want to be accepted by the
> > world
> > > meteorite community as being legitimate, but your
> > continuous
> > > behavior reveals you worry nothing more than lining
> > your
> > > pockets with cash and care nothing about meteorites.
> > To
> > > translate, one of my favorite Moroccan's best phrase
> > is, "I
> > > do not collect meteorites, I collect money!" I find
> > this
> > > very accurate with almost all Moroccan's I have worked
> > with
> > > over the last 10 years. Sad!
> > >
> > > I have heard way too many stories of people being
> > ripped
> > > off by Moroccan Stone Traders! I am completely tired
> > of
> > > their crap! Maybe time to speak up a little more...
> > >
> > > Greg
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Abdelaziz
> > Alhyane"
> > > <abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com>
> > > To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> > > Sent: Saturday, December 19, 2009 2:47 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD : New gorgeous CO3
> > >
> > >
> > > Dear List Members,
> > > My CO3 is confirmed by Dr. Anthony Irving and this is
> > what
> > > he said :
> > >
> > > AA-K? CO3 chondrite (W3)
> > >
> > > Small chondrules.? Olivine (Fa0-55), minor
> > enstatite,
> > > chromite, kamacite, taenite, troilite.
> > >
> > > This is authentic stone.
> > >
> > > My best
> > > Aziz
> > >
> > >
> > > --- On Fri, 12/18/09, Abdelaziz Alhyane <abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > From: Abdelaziz Alhyane <abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com>
> > > > Subject: [meteorite-list] AD : New gorgeous CO3
> > > > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > > > Date: Friday, December 18, 2009, 6:40 PM
> > > > Dear List members,
> > > >? If you are looking for a very nice and very
> > > cheap CO3, I
> > > > have for sale a 133g uniq CO3 carbonaceous stone
> > , the
> > > best
> > > > price ever offred, for price and photos, catact
> > me off
> > > list
> > > > please. this is you Xmas gift
> > > > My best
> > > > Aziz
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ______________________________________________
> > > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> > > > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ______________________________________________
> > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> > > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ______________________________________________
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


From gmhupe at htn.net  Sun Dec 20 12:32:55 2009
From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe)
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 12:32:55 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Moroccan sub-Standards
References: <503754.36337.qm@web111213.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <DAD1C1830A974982B1E46FD7D0D61D12@Gregor>

Moroccans,

One quick statement:
You guys are just pissed that you have been called out. If you insist on 
offering your wares to 'meteorite' collectors, do so in the same standards 
as the rest of the world!

I am upset because you guys have a chance to do it right, yet you 
continuously choose the lazy way. Meteorite collectors (and scientists) are 
tired of your ways. Clean it up. I am more than happy to help, and have 
helped to clean up your messes in the past when you have failed. Pretty 
simple, do it right!

Ahmad wrote:
"''if someone tell imperfections ,this imperfections will return on him one 
day''' !"

How true is this! The time is now, and it is being talked about right now.

Bottom line, I have no problem with anyone. If you want to present 
yourselves as "Meteorite Dealers", instead of 'stone traders', then do the 
right thing. I only ask this simple task, it will be better for you, science 
and collectors.

Thank you, Habibi, for your concern for my health in your last email. You 
are right, I am disturbed about all of this! I should walk away and forget 
it, but at this point I am commited (or should be), so it is difficult to 
walk away from something I am very passionate about!

Moroccans,
Today is a new week at the end of the year, do better by the stones and the 
New Year will smile upon you!

Greg




From mccartney at blackbearddata.com  Sun Dec 20 13:36:38 2009
From: mccartney at blackbearddata.com (McCartney Taylor)
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 12:36:38 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Tahoka and Met-Bul listings via Ted Bunch
Message-ID: <461f9025$7e8f289a$48096042$@com>

Fear not, Pete. I recovered the Tahoka from a farmer who found it hoeing. 
If you search google, you'll find my field trip report on it.

It was submited to NAU via Ted Bunch along with many other of my meteorite 
finds.  However, several years have passed and the only meteorite that has 
made the Met-Bul is Dumont that I submitted via UCLA.

So according to Ted Bunch, he submitted the paperwork to the system and 
someone upstream of him has done nothing with it.  I believe it is not just 
me, ask Mike Farmer about this as well.

At this point, I consider the Ted Bunch submission channel systemically  
broken. Not his fault, mind you.  So I am at a quandary as to whether I 
should re-submit all my finds again for the last 7 years and to whom I 
should submit them too.

Any ideas what to do?

-mt

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Does anybody have the skinny scoop on the 
gillions of sales of the Texas Meteorite
Tahoka from Lynn County Texas?
There are almost always a Fleabay
auction for Tahoka, but it's conspicuous
absence from the Met-Bul gives me the Willies.
Is this a verboden meteorite per IMCA 
guidelines???????
Pete IMCA 1733





From cynapse at charter.net  Sun Dec 20 13:48:04 2009
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 13:48:04 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Tahoka and Met-Bul listings via Ted Bunch
In-Reply-To: <461f9025$7e8f289a$48096042$@com>
References: <461f9025$7e8f289a$48096042$@com>
Message-ID: <39ssi5t4tpq32j1fk9it14mal0upiau4dm@4ax.com>

On Sun, 20 Dec 2009 12:36:38 -0600, you wrote:

>Fear not, Pete. I recovered the Tahoka from a farmer who found it hoeing. 

He would have reported it sooner, but it was doing such a good job with the
hoe...


From epgrondine at yahoo.com  Sun Dec 20 13:52:42 2009
From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine)
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 10:52:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] NWAs; a little more civil discussion, please
Message-ID: <122022.93038.qm@web36901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi all - 

We see adds for unclassified NWAs by the kilo. Clearly the Moroccans would like to be able to directly sell unclassified NWAs mentioning possible classes. 

I am pretty certain that when finders come in with stones for them, they have to make eyeball determinations. 

Can not some reasonable wording be found, or some new word or term, like "unclassified possible" be come up with? Something that would be clear?

And could there be some kind of IMCA guarantee that is the "possible" turns out to be "impossible", there be some kind of regular refund/exchange mechanism set in place?

In other words, some kind of rules so that Moroccan middlemen could be recognized by the IMCA?

Can some reasonable solution be found?

Could I ask for a little more civiliaty in this discussion?

E.P. Grondine
Man and Impact in the Americas





      


From azizhabibi at yahoo.com  Sun Dec 20 15:37:47 2009
From: azizhabibi at yahoo.com (habibi abdelaziz)
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 12:37:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] NWAs; a little more civil discussion, please
Message-ID: <327382.59169.qm@web62008.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

Hi all - 

grondine wrote

We see adds for unclassified NWAs by the kilo. Clearly the Moroccans would like to be able to directly sell unclassified NWAs mentioning possible classes. 
-----------------------------
no, they are from 15 year selling unclassified nwa nothing has changed , see the meteortical bulletain , in 5000 nwa 10 or so have been classified by nwa guys, so this is not the problem, they are selling the same way they are doing there is 15 years,
---------------------------
I am pretty certain that when finders come in with stones for them, they have to make eyeball determinations. 
----------------------------------------
yes you are right ,we do gamble each day , you get it or you leave it , its the middlemans that support tha gamble , the world dealer? buy with garantie is it turn to be not good they are refunded,? so what has changed nothing,
---------------------------------------------------------

Can not some reasonable wording be found, or some new word or term, like "unclassified possible" be come up with? Something that would be clear? 
And could there be some kind of IMCA guarantee that is the "possible" turns out to be "impossible", there be some kind of regular refund/exchange mechanism set in place? -
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

i have asked for that last year , to inculde many moorcans in the imca and ask them to fallow the rules.........................
_____________________________________________________________________________________
In other words, some kind of rules so that Moroccan middlemen could be recognized by the IMCA? 
Can some reasonable solution be found? 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
do trust you partner if there is a problem ask for a refund , also you can ask for a sample before you buy and than everything is easy



Could I ask for a little more civiliaty in this discussion? 

===================================
yes i agree with you this list need more respectfull debat and discussion incase of this barbaries and this noise;
?no one has the right to treat anyone badly or saying bad words , no one?has this right.

so ask i ask here for more wise and respectfull? comminications



habibi aziz 
box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco 
phone. 21235576145 
fax.21235576170</font>


      


From epgrondine at yahoo.com  Sun Dec 20 15:49:48 2009
From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine)
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 12:49:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] YD impacts: Firestone responds
Message-ID: <951078.57733.qm@web36905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi all - 

http://anthropology.net/2009/12/16/more-clovis-comet-debate-and-a-response-from-dr-richard-firestone-2/

Note the clear referee bias.

E.P. Grondine
Man and Impact in the Americas


      


From geeg48 at msn.com  Sun Dec 20 16:15:02 2009
From: geeg48 at msn.com (GREG LINDH)
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 14:15:02 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Steve Arnold (Elgin). Man of his word.
In-Reply-To: <368498.41541.qm@web46402.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
References: <4B2DE2C2.3040104@meteoritesusa.com>,
	<368498.41541.qm@web46402.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BLU125-W134292A20FB6599AD13EB8C9830@phx.gbl>


 
    Hi Greg,
 
  I agree with your assessment.  Chicago Steve may be a little odd, but who of us isn't.  I have gotten a couple of free meteorites from him and I'm thankful to Steve for that.  Instead of his constant complaints about someone like Steve, who has a child like quality to him in his quest to bring joy to others with his give aways, Bill should try doing likewise.  Perhaps he should buy a bunch of inexpensive NWAs and just give them away to school children and perhaps his neighbors.  I've done this and believe me, seeing the excitment in these people when they hold their first meteorite in their hands is worth the time and money I spent.  
  As to you, Bill, should you read this email, I'd suggest you loose the Scrooge like attitude toward life.  Life is short.  Best to make an impact while we're here.
 
  Greg Lindh
 
 

> Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 00:57:31 -0800
> From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Steve Arnold (Elgin). Man of his word.
> 
> I just would like to add something to this...
> 
> My experience with Chicago Steve has ALWAYS been good.
> He has given me many "freebies" and has also purchased from me, but yet has NEVER asked for anything in return. No discounts, no special deals, nothing.
> I have bought from him, received the meteorites in a very prompt time and they have been as described.
> Thats my experience.
> 
> What I have seen in my limited time on the list...
> 
> He offers a great deal of wonderful meteorites, FREE to those that want them. 
> Sure, he may break the rules from time to time, but no worse then others have/do, and far less severity then many have done.
> A few people are ready to jump all over him for posting too much, yet remain silent while others do it.
> Add to that the 10-15 posts about his post, makes for 1--15x as much emails to deal with.
> 
> While I am not taking any sides in this, I just felt the need to express my thoughts.
> 
> 
> Hope everyone is doing well.
> 
> Greg C.
> www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com
> IMCA member 4682
> 
> 
> --- On Sun, 12/20/09, Meteorites USA <eric at meteoritesusa.com> wrote:
> 
>> From: Meteorites USA <eric at meteoritesusa.com>
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Steve Arnold (Elgin). Man of his word.
>> To: "bill kies" <parkforestmet at hotmail.com>
>> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Date: Sunday, December 20, 2009, 3:39 AM
>> What exactly is your point? 
>> (rhetorical of course) Who's the one with the problem? The
>> one who apologizes for some of the things they've done, or
>> the one who points out the faults of others and consistently
>> posts negative comments and BS with an obvious prejudice
>> that no one wants to read, and all in all never contributes
>> anything but negativity to the list. Must have taken a while
>> to compile the "apologies". What have you contributed to the
>> list that can be deemed the least bit noteworthy or positive
>> beside brash attempts at slamming other on the list? Nothing
>> that I've seen...
>> 
>> But then again I didn't search through 7 years of posts to
>> make my point either...
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Eric
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 		 	   		  

From michael at rocksfromspace.org  Sun Dec 20 16:44:02 2009
From: michael at rocksfromspace.org (Michael Johnson)
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 13:44:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December 20,
	2009
Message-ID: <102498219.327521261345442007.JavaMail.root@mbs1.homesteadmail.com>

http://www.rocksfromspace.org/December_20_2009.html


From GeoZay at aol.com  Sun Dec 20 16:39:46 2009
From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 16:39:46 EST
Subject: [meteorite-list] Steve Arnold (Elgin). Man of his word.
Message-ID: <cb0.512f8b8a.385ff3a2@aol.com>

>> I agree with your  assessment.  Chicago Steve may be a little odd, but 
who of us isn't.   I have gotten a couple of free meteorites from him and I'm 
thankful to Steve for  that.  Instead of his constant complaints about 
someone like Steve, who has  a child like quality to him in his quest to bring 
joy to others with his give  aways, Bill should try doing likewise.  Perhaps 
he should buy a bunch of  inexpensive NWAs and just give them away to school 
children and perhaps his  neighbors.  I've done this and believe me, seeing 
the excitment in these  people when they hold their first meteorite in 
their hands is worth the time and  money I spent.  <<

Maybe Steve's generosity is a little  infectious...I too have found myself 
giving away meteorites to people that I  think would appreciate them. 
Usually neighbors, other relatives and friends. I'm  sure others have done the 
same. By condeming such practices of those who do this  is only shooting 
yourself in the long term foot if you are a dealer. 
GeoZay  



From cdtucson at cox.net  Sat Dec 19 19:25:13 2009
From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 19:25:13 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD : New gorgeous CO3
In-Reply-To: <796F769FBBE844FAA3759C6D5B0F6F55@Gregor>
Message-ID: <20091219192513.G8BY2.269383.imail@fed1rmwml31>

Greg,
Aziz is a well respected dealer who regularly contributes to this list in a very positive way.
With respect to you here; if Dr. Irving told him what he has, then that is good enough for me. I am quite sure that Dr. Irving's opinion is good enough  But, if you require O isotopes in order to assure it is correct then where do we sign up.
I would love to have a connection (contact name) to verify O isotopes through.
Will you be so kind as to post them here for all of our benefit? A simple name and email address will do just fine. Who do you use? Thank you for sharing and have yourself a wonderful holiday season. Thank once again. Carl
--
Carl or Debbie Esparza
Meteoritemax


---- Greg Hupe <gmhupe at htn.net> wrote: 
> Hello Aziz,
> 
> OK, if you sent this sample to Dr. Irving, what is the NWA number? What 
> further analysis by supporting scientists and/or laboratories that are 
> needed to confirm such a "meteorite" as you advertise. In my own experience 
> and conversations with Dr. Irving and other scientists, they ALWAYS insist 
> that oxygen isotope studies by other labs to 'confirm' their initial (not 
> FINAL) analysis of a sample, whether by you or other people.
> 
> We see through your Smoke-n-Mirror advertising and are not going to accept 
> sub-standard behavior if you guys (Moroccans) are going to sell your wares 
> to us without proof. You can spout off names, but the bottom line is proof 
> and accountability. If, and more often than not, you guys sells us crap, do 
> you refund us our money? "NO"! "I give you credit to good stone later, Mr. 
> GReg!" ,,, typical reply.
> 
> You Moroccan stone traders want to be accepted by the world meteorite 
> community as being legitimate, but your continuous behavior reveals you 
> worry nothing more than lining your pockets with cash and care nothing about 
> meteorites. To translate, one of my favorite Moroccan's best phrase is, "I 
> do not collect meteorites, I collect money!" I find this very accurate with 
> almost all Moroccan's I have worked with over the last 10 years. Sad!
> 
> I have heard way too many stories of people being ripped off by Moroccan 
> Stone Traders! I am completely tired of their crap! Maybe time to speak up a 
> little more...
> 
> Greg
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Abdelaziz Alhyane" <abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com>
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Saturday, December 19, 2009 2:47 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD : New gorgeous CO3
> 
> 
> Dear List Members,
>  My CO3 is confirmed by Dr. Anthony Irving and this is what he said :
> 
> AA-K  CO3 chondrite (W3)
> 
> Small chondrules.  Olivine (Fa0-55), minor enstatite, chromite, kamacite, 
> taenite, troilite.
> 
> This is authentic stone.
> 
> My best
> Aziz
> 
> 
> --- On Fri, 12/18/09, Abdelaziz Alhyane <abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> > From: Abdelaziz Alhyane <abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com>
> > Subject: [meteorite-list] AD : New gorgeous CO3
> > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > Date: Friday, December 18, 2009, 6:40 PM
> > Dear List members,
> >  If you are looking for a very nice and very cheap CO3, I
> > have for sale a 133g uniq CO3 carbonaceous stone , the best
> > price ever offred, for price and photos, catact me off list
> > please. this is you Xmas gift
> > My best
> > Aziz
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ______________________________________________
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From guyhein at pt.lu  Sun Dec 20 16:49:07 2009
From: guyhein at pt.lu (Guy Heinen)
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 22:49:07 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] Steve Arnold (Elgin). Man of his word.
In-Reply-To: <BLU125-W134292A20FB6599AD13EB8C9830@phx.gbl>
References: <4B2DE2C2.3040104@meteoritesusa.com>,
	<368498.41541.qm@web46402.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
	<BLU125-W134292A20FB6599AD13EB8C9830@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <60360F22-FD90-4604-BECF-01B5013C5A8E@pt.lu>

Hi Greg L and Greg C,

I agree 100% with you.

Bill, the time for writing your long e-mail must have cost you at  
least one hour and enough energy to press several thousand times the  
'delete' button for e-mails that you don't want to read.

Guy Heinen


Am 20.12.2009 um 22:15 schrieb GREG LINDH:

>
>
>    Hi Greg,
>
>  I agree with your assessment.  Chicago Steve may be a little odd,  
> but who of us isn't.  I have gotten a couple of free meteorites from  
> him and I'm thankful to Steve for that.  Instead of his constant  
> complaints about someone like Steve, who has a child like quality to  
> him in his quest to bring joy to others with his give aways, Bill  
> should try doing likewise.  Perhaps he should buy a bunch of  
> inexpensive NWAs and just give them away to school children and  
> perhaps his neighbors.  I've done this and believe me, seeing the  
> excitment in these people when they hold their first meteorite in  
> their hands is worth the time and money I spent.
>  As to you, Bill, should you read this email, I'd suggest you loose  
> the Scrooge like attitude toward life.  Life is short.  Best to make  
> an impact while we're here.
>
>  Greg Lindh
>
>
>
>> Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 00:57:31 -0800
>> From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com
>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Steve Arnold (Elgin). Man of his word.
>>
>> I just would like to add something to this...
>>
>> My experience with Chicago Steve has ALWAYS been good.
>> He has given me many "freebies" and has also purchased from me, but  
>> yet has NEVER asked for anything in return. No discounts, no  
>> special deals, nothing.
>> I have bought from him, received the meteorites in a very prompt  
>> time and they have been as described.
>> Thats my experience.
>>
>> What I have seen in my limited time on the list...
>>
>> He offers a great deal of wonderful meteorites, FREE to those that  
>> want them.
>> Sure, he may break the rules from time to time, but no worse then  
>> others have/do, and far less severity then many have done.
>> A few people are ready to jump all over him for posting too much,  
>> yet remain silent while others do it.
>> Add to that the 10-15 posts about his post, makes for 1--15x as  
>> much emails to deal with.
>>
>> While I am not taking any sides in this, I just felt the need to  
>> express my thoughts.
>>
>>
>> Hope everyone is doing well.
>>
>> Greg C.
>> www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com
>> IMCA member 4682
>>
>>
>> --- On Sun, 12/20/09, Meteorites USA <eric at meteoritesusa.com> wrote:
>>
>>> From: Meteorites USA <eric at meteoritesusa.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Steve Arnold (Elgin). Man of his word.
>>> To: "bill kies" <parkforestmet at hotmail.com>
>>> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> Date: Sunday, December 20, 2009, 3:39 AM
>>> What exactly is your point?
>>> (rhetorical of course) Who's the one with the problem? The
>>> one who apologizes for some of the things they've done, or
>>> the one who points out the faults of others and consistently
>>> posts negative comments and BS with an obvious prejudice
>>> that no one wants to read, and all in all never contributes
>>> anything but negativity to the list. Must have taken a while
>>> to compile the "apologies". What have you contributed to the
>>> list that can be deemed the least bit noteworthy or positive
>>> beside brash attempts at slamming other on the list? Nothing
>>> that I've seen...
>>>
>>> But then again I didn't search through 7 years of posts to
>>> make my point either...
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Eric
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 		 	   		
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From fujmon at mac.com  Sun Dec 20 17:12:32 2009
From: fujmon at mac.com (Gary Fujihara)
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 12:12:32 -1000
Subject: [meteorite-list] Steve Arnold (Elgin). Man of his word.
In-Reply-To: <SNT102-W11F992C7060501DA8187F4A2830@phx.gbl>
References: <SNT102-W11F992C7060501DA8187F4A2830@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <8C8D94FA-7F7B-48F4-8365-0D47242BFB5E@mac.com>

During this glorious holiday season, is it not better to spread good cheer and positive messages to our brethren of meteorite collectors?  I for one think so.

So, I would like to take this moment to celebrate the Birthdays of the wondrous falls of Woolgorong (1960), Tamdakht (2008), and ... oh yeah, one of our own, the Nakhla Dog himself, Mr Rob Wesel.  

Happy Birthday Rob!

gary

On Dec 19, 2009, at 7:37 PM, bill kies wrote:

> 
> 
> [meteorite-list] i'm sorry
> SSTEVE ARNOLD
> Thu, 02 May 2002 20:31:01 -0700
> Hey all, Steve here. I'm sorry for all the postings. I'll keep them down to a low roar from now on. Again I'm sorry. Just to let everyone know, I finally have the ESQUEL pictures.
> Thank you for e-mailing me, and have a great day!
> Steve Arnold, Chicago! 
> 
> Sun, 17 Jul 2005 09:03:40 -0700
> I do really feel ashamed for the crap I have given
> this list... 
> Then when I got on the list,I realized I was part of something
> even bigger that could get me noticed even more.Well that backed fired
> because of my big ego.And yes I do have a big ego.And it has gotten me
> into alot of trouble in my life.But I really do want to make ammends with
> the few list members with whom I have totally have disrespected.I really
> hope to earn your respect again by being true to my action by my apology
> yesterday.This is a sincere email of totally being apologitic.I will
> maintain from here out,nothing but meteorite related content that will
> serve only the interest of everyone on this list and anyone associated to
> this list...
> I really hope
> there is not a gone way over the line,I really so hope that I can win back
> all the list members that I have really hurt.Again I am truly sorry.From
> now any sales,ebay,givaways,or non-meteorite items will strictly be done
> on another list that was meant to be for that reason,I will post to
> that.And here is promise I will keep and you can truly count on,if I do
> post something like I just stated,I will unsubscribe from this list.
> Please again
> accept my  humble apology for my disrepectful actions and attitudes.
> 
> 
> 2007/06/18  I promise to follow the meteorite rules from now on as well.Can we all do that?? Steve R.Arnold,chicago,Ill,Usa!!
> 
> Sunday, March 12, 2006 4:51 AM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] last day of sale/I am sorry/AD
> Good morning list.I have gotten some rather nasty emails about my
> continued spamming of the list with my sales.I do apologize for the
> continued mess.I was very stressed out when I did what I did.But after
> sometime out to reflect where I want to go,it became clear what is more
> important.PEOPLE! After
> this sale I will become invisible for a while.I will continue to go by
> art's rules.But lately I noticed othe r people have disobeyed them as
> well.Again I am sorry.
> 
> 
> Sat, 23 Jun 2007 06:35:09 -0700
> I have decided that
> this will be my very last round of freebies.
> 
> 2005/07/17 Hello list I will be short.I want to apoligize to all the good
> people on this list for my brash email I sent this morning.There was no harm
> intended.It was plain stupid.I should have just kept it private.From now
> on,no more sales,no more trades,no more givaways,no more jokes,just
> METEORITES.I -- Steve Arnold, Chicago!!!
> 
> campos sales sale
> Tue, 22 Mar 2005 00:29:51 -0800
> Steve Arnold, Chicago!!! wrote:
> I VOW there will be no more on these
> or any subject regarding these stones.Come and get 'em!!
> 
> Then there was:
> Hi again list.I made a mistake on the 527 gram piece.It is the 492 gram
> pioece that has the flow lines and the lipping.Not the 527 gram piece.That
> is my mistake, for that I apoligize.One has already been sold, so keep 'em
> coming.
> Then AGAIN there was:
> Hi again list.I have just a few of the CAMPOS SALES pieces left forsale at
> $2.00 a gram.The 492 gram flow lined specimen is gone,as well as the 449
> gram dark crusted piece, as well as the 107 gram piece.I thank those who
> bought them.I also have the 373 gram individual with 95% crust still as
> well as the 563 gram 2 fragmented pieces and a few more.Get now while they
> are hot to go.Sorry for this post,but I am happy to see them going.Chime
> in and take one home.The price will never be finer.
> Then .... said:
> I think Steve has very clearly demonstated how much respect he has for
> us.
> Which is NONE! It will never stop like "Ground Hog Day", "50 First Dates", "Muppet's Beaker does Chicago Again and Again and Again"...when will it end? NEVER! I kept my promise to keep lurking, but Steve brought me out again at his own request. More bragging....more spam....more acting innnocent and ignorant. Guess I "chimed in". 
> 
> I was born at night....but not last night!
> Arrrrgh!!!!
> 
> Fri, 03 Jun 2005 20:39:13 -0700
> SSSSTTEEVVEEY:
> NAYSAYER #1 HERE.....This is the clearest example yet of what many list 
> members have been trying to stop.  
> Your e-mail:
> Hello list.It is time to blow off some steam tonight toward some list
> members.People are betting with each other when I blow my promises about
> psoting with another means. ("ANOTHER MEANS"...WHAT THE HELL DID YOU JUST 
> SAY???) (IT REALLY SAYS SOMETHING ABOUT YOU SSTTOORRMMBBRRIINNGGEERR WHEN YOU 
> HAVE BEEN CATEGORIZED AS A BUFFOON BY THE MAJORITY OF A SCIENTIFIC LIST, 
> BREAKING 
> PROMISES SO OFTEN THAT PEOPLE WAGER ON HOW QUICKLY YOU WILL BREAK YOUR 
> PROMISES, AND ALSO SHOWS HOW MUCH YOU TOTALLY DISRESPECT THE LIST BY YOUR 
> CONTINUED 
> POSTINGS) ow I think that is down right moronic (PRETTY FUNNY STATEMENT COMING 
> FROM YOU.  YOU DEFINE THE TERM MORONIC).People
> still bug me about my givaways.Why I just do not know.( THIS IS THE CRUX 
> (LOOK IT UP) OF YOUR PROBLEM.  YOU KEEP WRITING THAT YOU DO NOT KNOW WHY PEOPLE 
> DO 
> THE THINGS THEY DO TOWARDS YOU...YOU ARE EITHER 1. DUMB AS DISHWATER, 2. IN 
> SERIOUS AND PATHOLOGICAL DENIAL, 3. YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT YOUR NEGATIVE IMPACT 
> TOWARDS THE LIST, AND YOU DISRESPECT THE LIST BY CONTINUING TO POST YOUR 
> IDIOTIC INANE MESSAGES, 4. YOU ARE DUMBER THAN DISHWATER, E. ALL OF THE ABOVE.  
> I 
> CHOOSE "E"....) It really pains me to have to block email address because all 
> some list members want to do is
> harras me for posting to much (SPELLCHECK BROKEN AGAIN??...I HAVE SAID THIS 
> BEFORE, AND I WILL KEEP SAYING IT.  YOU HARASS HUNDREDS OF GOOD,  RULES ABIDING 
> LIST MEMBERS WITH YOUR POSTS SEVERAL TIMES A DAY. PEOPLE WRITE YOU IN LARGE 
> NUMBERS BECAUSE YOU CONTINUE TO ACT LIKE A MORON, AND THEY WANT YOU TO STOP.  
> CAN THIS BE ANY CLEARER?????) )Now when I post this, there will probably be
> 50 more emails condemning me for this.Well you can see where the
> immaturaty(SPELLCHECK?) lies. (YES.."IT" LIES IN ELGIN ILLINOIS.  THE MAN IN 
> THE HOT PANTS ON THE ILLINOIS METEORITES WEBSITE) In 2 days I will be going to 
> mexico for a nice 10
> days.Away from computers,cell phones, tv everything that is electronic.(THANK 
> GOD.  10 DAYS AND NO SSTTEEVVEEYY POSTS)..It
> will be a nicely deserverd (SPELLCHECK?) vacation.I also know some of you 
> will be
> estatic (SPELLCHECK?).Well despite the indifferences (WHAT?  DO YOU KNOW WHAT 
> THIS WORD MEANS??  LIST MEMBERS ARE NOT INDIFFERENT TOWARDS YOU.  4 PEOPLE 
> LIKE YOU, THE REST CAN'T STAND YOU..NO INDIFFERENCE HERE) that some list 
> members 
> have with
> me,I will not be detered (SPELLCHECK??) from speaking my mind. (THERE IS THAT 
> DENIAL THING AGAIN!  NO AMOUNT OF NEGATIVE FEEDBACK FROM MANY LIST MEMBERS 
> WILL DETER YOU FROM RUINING THIS GREAT LIST..WE ARE JUST A BUNCH OF NAYSAYING 
> "ANTI-STEVE" PEOPLE THAT HAVE RANDOMLY CHOSEN YOU AS OUR SCORNED TARGET. LOOK 
> IN 
> THE MIRROR.  YOU ARE NOT WANTED HERE) As far as I am concerned I
> have done nothing wrong (OF COURSE NOT.  ACCORDING TO YOU, YOU HAVE NEVER 
> DONE ANYTHING WRONG.  WE JUST LIKE PICKING ON YOU.  HOW ABOUT THAT IMCA THING?? 
> 
> DID THE PEOPLE THAT YOU HOSED THINK THAT YOU DID NOTHING WRONG?),and I still 
> have never done anything to anyone to
> warrant continue harrasment (SPELLCHECK???) from certain list members. (NOT 
> INNOCENT DENIAL BOY SSTTEEVVEEYY.  HE HAS NEVER DONE ANYTHING WRONG...GO 
> AWAY!!!!) People call me DUMB F***,A**HOLE,DUMBA**,MENTAL MIDGET,STUPID 
> MORON,etc. 
> (YOU LEFT OUT SO MANY...YOUR LIST IS ONLY 10% COMPLETE) This is coming from
> people with whom I have met and talked and drank meteorites. (SO YOU ARE 
> ADMITTING THAT EVEN PEOPLE THAT YOU THOUGHT LIKED YOU CAN'T STAND YOU NOW 
> BECAUSE 
> OF WHAT YOU ARE DOING TO THE LIST...DON'T YOU GET THE HINT?????)I  just do not
> know (YOU MUST BE JOKING AGAIN!!!) where the attitude has come from in just a 
> short time towards me.  (GO BACK AND READ THE LIST ARCHIVES OF YOUR IDIOTIC 
> SPAMMER POSTS....YOU HAVE 0 CREDIBILITY!!!) It
> is amazing! (NO, YOUR LIVING IN DENIAL IS AMAZING!!!) Well I also know that I 
> have my fan base out there. (4 PEOPLE OF OF SEVERAL HUNDRED DOES NOT 
> CONSTITUTE A FAN BASE) I really
> want to thank them for thier (SPELLCHECK??) support. (WRITE ALL 4 OF THEM 
> PRIVATELY OFF LIST.  SPARE THE LIST) I know if the posting becomes a small
> roar, and not a huge roar, I might win back some of those people whom
> continue to boycott me. (AFTER ALL YOU HAVE DONE TO TRY AND SINGLE-HANDEDLY 
> RUIN THE LIST, YOU THINK PEOPLE ARE GOING TO LINE UP AND ASSUME THAT 
> SSSTTEEVVEEY THE HUMAN SERIAL PROMISE BREAKER IS GOING TO CHANGE HIS 
> SPOTS???..HAHAHAHAHA, BEST ONE I HAVE HEARD TODAY) .......Well I have enjoyed 
> doing the givaways 
> (SPELLCHECK???), (INGRATIATING YOURSELF BY BUYING YOUR WAY IN) I have
> enjoyed selling on ebay, (NICE PICS!!!) and I have enjoyed selling to people 
> as well.Also
> I just want to put to rest one thing.I have NEVER,NEVER cut or broken any
> of my meteorites, to givaway as freebies.(BS) These pieces were either
> broken,or I just gave away the whole piece.NO CUT OR BROKEN PIECES.I
> treasure these other worldly pieces from space just as much as the next
> collecter. (YOU ARE THE ONLY PERSON ANYONE KNOWS THAT HAS HAD THE UNFORTUNATE 
> BREAKING OF SO MANY PIECES.  YOU HAVE WRITTEN THE LIST ABOUT THEM 
> BREAKING..IF YOU CARED, THEY WOULD NOT BE BROKEN) I have nothing to apoligize 
> (spellcheck??) for to anyone,unless I have done
> something wrong. (THE APOLOGY RECEIVING LINE IS LONG AND DISTINGUISHED) Well 
> that is my steam vent venting and it has cooled
> down. (GOSH SSTTEEVEEYY....WE ALL FEEL SO MUCH BETTER NOW)I hope everyone has 
> a great weekend and week ahead,and I look forward
> to posting again when I get back. (DENIAL BOY....WE ALL KNOW THAT YOU WILL 
> NEVER CHANGE.  YOU WILL KEEP SELFISHLY DISRESPECTING THIS WONDEFUL LIST BECAUSE 
> YOU ARE A SERIAL POSTER AND YOU THINK YOU ARE A REAL METEORITE STUD...YOU ARE 
> NOT..PLEASE GO AWAY!!!) .I will also have pictures to post on my
> website of my vacation. (HONEY, GET THE OLD STYLE BEER AND THE 
> TWINKIES...BIGGG STTORMBBRINNGER STTEEVEY WILL BE POSTING HIS VACATION PICS IN 
> 10 DAYS....
> 
> [meteorite-list] (AD) another trade offer
> steve arnold
> Wed, 29 Nov 2006 05:22:27 -0800
> Hi list.I know I should have made this with the other
> post,but I only came up with the idea today.Again I am
> sorry to the naysayers out there.I have a 159 gram
> endcut of MUNDRABILLA with a hole and is etched.It
> also has the very nice color on the backside of a
> typical mundrabilla.I am looking for stones or
> meso's.How about some nice GAO.Let me know
> offlist.Thanks again,and I am sorry.
> steve
> Steve R.Arnold,chicago,Ill,Usa!!
> 
> [meteorite-list] the last one
> Steve Arnold, Chicago!!!
> Mon, 26 Aug 2002 05:07:41 -0700
> You all have made your points. I know how you all feel. I'm sorry for
> posting you. No more posts!!!
> =====
> Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, 60120
> I. M. C. A. MEMBER #6728
> The Midwest Meteorite Collector!
> 
> [meteorite-list] its over for me
> Steve Arnold, Chicago!!
> Mon, 06 Mar 2006 13:19:00 -0800
> Hello list.It is a sad day for me.I have decided to leave meteorites.I am
> putting up most of my collection forsale.I will keep a few speciemns,but
> by large,most will be up forsale.I will put up on my website what I will
> be selling.Let me know what you want and I will get back to you.Again it
> has been a fun ride.I have met alot of great people,but it is better to
> leave this hobby with my head held up high.And I am sorry to have offened
> anyone.
> 
>                             steve arnold,chicago,usa
> Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, 60120
> 
> [meteorite-list] spamming
> Steve Arnold, Chicago!!!
> Tue, 23 Jul 2002 21:06:49 -0700
> Hi all. I have been accused of spamming on the list. I want to apologize
> to you all. Someone does not like me! In the future I'll post on another
> list. I do not want to bring this good group down in the mud. So please
> forgive me. I just want to get along with everyone. Only 2 of you have met
> me. I'm not a bad person. If I have offended you by my spamming I'm sorry.
> Everyone please have a good night.
>                                                       Steve
> 
> [meteorite-list] An open message to all list members
> Sun, 27 Aug 2006 12:09:35 -0700
> To all list members,
> 
> I?m sure most of you have seen my emails relating to the misrepresentations
> and falsehoods perpetrated by Steve (Chicago) Arnold in his ads and posts.
> First of all, let me apologize to the list membership for making these
> emails public and in effect, loading up your mailboxes.  I believe there is
> good reason, however, for making these emails public.  It is for that reason
> I felt I should explain some of the background issues and provide my
> rationale below.
> 
> Everyone on this list has invested a lot of time, effort, and most
> importantly, money in their respective meteorite collections.  I personally
> take great umbrage at anyone who would jeopardize my collection, either
> directly or indirectly, by casting ANY doubt on ANY facet or aspect of
> collecting meteorites.  The process of buying and selling meteorites and the
> specimens themselves ALL have to be genuine and above reproach at ALL times
> 
> We also have a number of list members who make their living by selling
> meteorites.  I won?t even begin to speak for them, but I?ve seen several of
> these folks get down and dirty at any potential threat to their livelihood?.
> and rightfully so.
> 
> My issue with Steve (Chicago) Arnold is that he just doesn?t care what he
> puts in his ads.  In July, when I first caught his ads containing
> misrepresentations and falsehoods, he told me:
> 
> 
> ?WHAT IS IT TO YOU??  MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS.?
> 
> 
> I ask you all?. What kind of reply is that?  What does that tell you about
> Steve (Chicago) Arnold?s integrity and morals?
> 
> Today, I noticed a misrepresentation on one of his eBay sales and mentioned
> it on the list (as I previously promised I would --- see below).  Again, I
> received these rather disturbing comments from Steve.
> 
> 
> ?I REALLY WISH YOU WOULD STOP HARRASING ME ABOUT THIS PETTY BULL****.?
> [replaced with * so as to not offend]
> 
> ?I AM TIRED OF PEOPLE CONTINOUSLY HARRISING ME FOR NO REASON.?
> 
> ?IT IS NOT YOUR PURPOSE IN LIFE TO POLICE ME OR EBAY,OR ANYONE ELSE IN THIS
> WORLD EXCEPT YOURSELF.ENOUGH OF THIS BULL****.?  [replaced with * so as to
> not offend]
> 
> 
> I?m sorry, but if anyone thinks that perpetrating misrepresentations and
> falsehoods when selling meteorites is ?PETTY BULL****? or that calling it to
> his attention is ?HARRISING ME FOR NO REASON? then WE as a community have
> REAL problems.  This poor pathetic act of his is a scam.  I invite all list
> members to go back to the archives and look at Steve?s MO.  If anyone
> catches him doing something he shouldn?t, he immediate screams that he is
> being harassed.
> 
> OK, so why am I getting involved in this?  I see Steve (Chicago) Arnold as a
> direct threat to this great hobby (and in some cases, livelihood) of ours
> and also more specifically to the time, effort, and money I?ve invested in
> my collection.  As I told Steve several weeks ago:
> 
> 
> ?You're a dangerous person, Steve.  You're a danger to any and ALL
> legitimate dealers, sellers, and collectors of meteorites.  You're like the
> auto industry back 40-50 years ago.  They used to misrepresent and make
> false claims about the safety of their vehicles and then, along came a man
> named Nader.
> 
> I gave you fair warning in two previous emails that I was 1) going to make
> it my business "MAKING SURE UNSUSPECTING POTENTIAL BUYERS ARE AWARE OF YOUR
> LIES" and 2)  "any recurrence will again be brought out in a public forum".
> 
> You now have my undivided attention.  I've going to be your own personal
> Ralph Nader.  Every time you post a misleading/untruthful/fraudulent ad, I'm
> going to expose it... publicly.  You're a loose canon on deck and someone
> needs to expose you for what you are.?
> 
> 
> I told Steve today, that he could stop my posts if he would just stop the
> misrepresentations and falsehoods.
> 
> Some of you might be thinking that I?m just picking on Steve.  Well, in all
> honesty, I?ve gone after several other sellers on eBay who have done the
> same thing (and I'll continue to do so).  The responses I got back from them
> was typically something like? Oh, I?m sorry.  I made a mistake and will
> correct it immediately.  Watching these individuals over time and you don?t
> see a recurrence.  In other words, it was a one-time, honest mistake.  Steve
> (Chicago) Arnold has my undivided attention because he does this repeatedly
> and responds with comments like ?WHAT IS IT TO YOU??  MIND YOUR OWN
> BUSINESS.?
> 
> Again, I apologize to all list members for these emails.  I?m hoping the
> publicity and peer pressure will convince Steve (Chicago) Arnold develop a
> different set of morals.
> 
> [meteorite-list] apology
> STEVE ARNOLD
> Sun, 12 Jan 2003 19:01:52 -0800
> Hi list. It seems some people on this list are on me again for to much"SPAMMING".I seem to owe everyone an apology. Iam going to tucson as a novice as far as the social and know;edge part of this great hobby. I want people to like me and accept me for who I am. I will really try to tone it down in the future. Icannot help my aggresive nature. That is who I am as a person. And I am not going to change for anyone. But I am sorry for the few who do not like me because of my SPAMMING. I will try and tone it down in the future. I just love this hobby so much. Again I apoligize for my over agressiveness.
>                                                   steve arnold, chicago
> Steve r. Arnold, Chicago, il, 60107
> The midwest meteorite collector!
> I.M.C.A. member #6728
> Website url http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com
> 
> Fri, 27 May 2005 18:30:21 -0700
> Original message from "Steve Arnold, Chicago!!!" <[EMAIL 
> PROTECTED]>: -------------- 
> 
>> Hello list.I guess it was another ANTI-STEVE BASHING DAY for what I saw on 
>> the 40 or more emails I got.Well I am taking the advise of mr.herr martin 
>> and take my sales to YAHOOGROUPS to make advertisements concerning 
>> meteorites.I am truly sorry for all the socalled spam I have been giving 
>> the list.It will not happen anymore.I should have done this along time 
>> ago.I KNOW what this list is for.And you are right, 30 emails concerning 
>> the same thing in 1 month is to much.Well with that said, I hope all my 
>> american friends have a very nice and safe holiday. 
>> 
>> steve arnold, chicago 
>> 
>> Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, 60120 
>> 
>> 
>> Illinois Meteorites,Ltd!
> 
> [meteorite-list] nwa 176 - or: Playing dead will NOT work
> Thu, 30 Sep 2004 16:17:13 -0700
> Hi Steve,
> sorry that I have to choose this way to contact you, but you are
> ignoring all my emails and play dead.
> Steve, when I buy two items from you and you just send me one, I get a
> little bit disturbed. When I tell you that one is missing and you tell
> me you sent both, although my girl friend has seen me unpacking your
> mail and finding just one piece, I get more disturbed. But when you then
> ignore all my emails that ask you to resolve that matter, I get angry.
> And I am very angry now.
> It's not about the loss of $20 for me. It's about lack of character,
> betrayal and a CONTINUED story of playing foul.
> May I remind you of the tricks you played with your sale lately? When
> you offered bigger and bigger discounts, but at the same time raised
> base prices so the items became more expensive in reality? You ducked
> and covered when I found out your malpractice. You can't duck and cover
> now.
> Steve, either send me the missing NWA 067, refund my money or lose one
> of your few remaining friends. It's up to you. Choose wisely.
> 
> [meteorite-list] clarafication on my meteorite sale and other matters
> Steve Arnold, Chicago!!!
> Thu, 30 Sep 2004 18:06:54 -0700
> Hello list.I want to clarify my meteorite sale to everyone.If you go ahead
> and pic 3 specimens you want,lets say, for $40, $50, and $60.You have
> $150.You divide by 3 and that is what you pay.$50 plus shipping.I am
> really sorry for goof.I know that I sometimes hurt myself with the way I
> type.I want to apoligize for my rudeness.I'll try to pay more attention to
> this matter in the future.Also on a side note,I remedied the situation
> with xxxxxxxx xxxx.Also one more item,I do not like public insults on the
> list.If you want to tell me something, please do it in private.I would
> never stoop to anything like that.Again please forgive my computer
> stupidisy.
> 
> on 8/25/02 7:03 PM, xxxx at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi xxxxx and all,
>>> 
>>> Although I hate to address this issue, xxxxx is 100% right in his
> assessment
>>> of Steve
>>> Arnold from Chicago. When Steve started posting to the list, I tried to
> help
>>> him out
>>> and tell him what the list was for. I even tried to suggest some lists
> that
>>> might be
>>> more for what he was trying to do. I received a very arrogant (and
> nasty)
>>> message back
>>> from him saying he would pretty much do what he wanted to do and it was
> free
>>> enterprise and he could post what he wanted to the list. I then informed
> him
>>> he would
>>> be filtered from my emails from that time on and he has been. The only
> time I
>>> know
>>> something is going on is when someone quotes or responds to his email on
> the
>>> list.
>>> Even these are too frequent!
>>> 
>>> It wasn't long until he was asked to tone down the posts. He hasn't
> listen and
>>> won't.
>>> I agree that he is probably a nice guy in some ways and I think he is
>>> passionate about
>>> collecting but he doesn't get what the list is for. If he thinks he is
> getting
>>> picked
>>> on, it is because he doesn't listen to reason.
>>> 
>>> Steve, I hope you will listen this time around but I doubt it.
>>> 
>>> Sorry to list members who have been offended but I am offended by
> someone who
>>> disrupts
>>> the list time and time again because he can't listen to what is being
> said.
>>> Anyone can
>>> look at the list rules and I think it is pretty clear that Steve has
> taken
>>> advantage
>>> and push his luck far too often.
>  		 	   		  
> _________________________________________________________________
> Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222986/direct/01/
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

Gary Fujihara
Big Kahuna Meteorites (IMCA#1693)
105 Puhili Place, Hilo, Hawaii 96720
(808) 640-9161



From nakhladog at comcast.net  Sun Dec 20 18:17:29 2009
From: nakhladog at comcast.net (Rob Wesel)
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 15:17:29 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad - Auctions and Stocking Stuffers
Message-ID: <29F4DE1D491A45B4A1AF19F6C1A0B230@windows9bb74fe>

Hello all

A few ending on the bay in a couple hours
http://shop.ebay.com/nakhladog/m.html

And free US shipping on any of my meteorite coins if you buy today, Priority 
shipping that is and they go to the mailbox tonight
http://www.nakhladogmeteorites.com/gear.htm

Happy holidays

Rob Wesel
www.nakhladogmeteorites.com
www.facebook.com/nakhladog
------------------
We are the music makers...
and we are the dreamers of the dreams.
Willy Wonka, 1971




From mstreman at gmail.com  Sun Dec 20 18:26:14 2009
From: mstreman at gmail.com (MstrEman)
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 18:26:14 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Steve Arnold (Elgin). Man of his word.
In-Reply-To: <8C8D94FA-7F7B-48F4-8365-0D47242BFB5E@mac.com>
References: <SNT102-W11F992C7060501DA8187F4A2830@phx.gbl>
	<8C8D94FA-7F7B-48F4-8365-0D47242BFB5E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <704f522a0912201526k7c9eb471o38043ff2558f00b8@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Guy I think Bill serves the community at large to remind the list
and newbies who know nothing about the real Steve-- so, sorry I
strongly disagree that we should all use the delete button.  Steve has
contaminated our collections with his fake/mislabeled/ relabeled
specimens.  Conversely Steve could have spent his time acting
responsibly and not being a @#&#.  Where is YOUR indignation at Steve?

And George?  Is Steve a dealer or not? Sure acts like one but he says
he is not one.

Yeah yeah yeah yada yada ---but how many have gotten fake meteorites
and how many have been outright cheated out of what they paid for?
--You folks that defend Steve's giveaways are kool-aid drinkers that
would accept free arsenic-laced kool-aid and think it a swell friendly
gesture because it was a freebie and would defend his right to
distribute it with your dying breath.  If I loved art and could afford
a Picasso and I wanted to chop it up because it was mine to do as I
please--is it morally right to allow me to do so? You Steve defenders
think yes it is ok  as long as you get a piece.

This "well Steve has never cheated me" comment is confoundedly naive.
Do you also disbelieve your parents when they say don't touch the iron
it is hot and have to touch it for yourself ?  You that defend him
because he has never cheated you personally--or those with memories
shorter than a few days WILL be cheated eventually and then you'll
whine about getting cheated.  You deserve what you get and it won't be
sympathy from me.

Bottom line: those that defend Steve are either sub rock dwellers who
are oblivious to the Real Steve and should gird themselves with a dose
of reality prior to opening their mouths  OR they are just unethical
compulsive enablers that keep his pathological game play going because
they do not have the ethics to do otherwise.

If anyone else had ran a scam just once like Arnold does daily, the
list would be outraged.  Misplaced sympathy for poor generous Steve
--held by so many allegedly informed and intelligent folk speaks very
poorly about their judgment in general.  MOST children are too
immature to play with real loaded firearms but some enablers allow
them to do so because it is so cute and charming but most feel it is
immoral to let children play with firearms.

Same-- same --for distributing meteorites by child-like adults and to
other child or childlike personalities People who take hammers to
meteorites just to give away pieces to garner sympathy /attention
would not be allowed to own them if I were king. Why so many can't
distinguish St Nick from the Grench in this discussion is beyond me.

Elton who is also sick of "well poor Steve has a problem so we should
never confront him" liberal touchy-feelly "jello for a back-bone"
mouth pieces.

Merry Fracking Christmas


From doogle1953 at yahoo.com  Mon Dec 21 18:39:41 2009
From: doogle1953 at yahoo.com (Doogle1953)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 18:39:41 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Please Cancel Subscription
Message-ID: <046E892B4B484F39AD3985EAD0A4AF51@DOOGLEDESK>

Thank you for your quick aproval and activation.  I have found that this is 
not the type of information I was looking for.  I am looking more for 
astrological events like gama bursts, big meteors and astroid/comet 
trajectories etc. Thanks anyway.

Doug 



From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Sun Dec 20 18:43:17 2009
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 18:43:17 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Please Cancel Subscription
In-Reply-To: <046E892B4B484F39AD3985EAD0A4AF51@DOOGLEDESK>
References: <046E892B4B484F39AD3985EAD0A4AF51@DOOGLEDESK>
Message-ID: <e51421550912201543y7b49ae00ne725b49c60138c8d@mail.gmail.com>

> " I am looking more for astrological events "

Astrological events :

http://www.cainer.com

Sorry, I couldn't resist. ;)

Best regards and Merry Xmas,

MikeG


On 12/21/09, Doogle1953 <doogle1953 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Thank you for your quick aproval and activation.  I have found that this is
> not the type of information I was looking for.  I am looking more for
> astrological events like gama bursts, big meteors and astroid/comet
> trajectories etc. Thanks anyway.
>
> Doug
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


-- 
.........................................................
Michael Gilmer (Florida, USA)
Member of the Meteoritical Society.
Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com
FaceBook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale
Twitter - Twitter - http://twitter.com/GalacticStone
eBay - http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/maypickle
..........................................................


From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Sun Dec 20 18:52:43 2009
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 18:52:43 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Happy Holidays and Peace on the List
Message-ID: <e51421550912201552qd083c5aw6f24ae772dedbc0a@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Listees!

I want to wish everyone a Merry Christmas, a Happy New Year, and a
Happy Festivus.

May your stockings be filled with space rocks. :)

Let's keep the bickering off the List, at least until after the holidays.

Many Moroccans are honest dealers.  Some Americans are dishonest
dealers.  This is a market for rare commodities, and there will always
be bad apples from every group.  No group represented on this List is
immune to bad apples.

As for Steve Arnold from Chicago, the list archives is full of
messages that are pro-Steve or anti-Steve. For many people, myself
included, this is enough to prevent me from dealing with him.  He
could be the nicest guy in the world, but once the doubts have been
placed in public, they never go away.  There are others on this List
who have similar reputations - some of these people are on hiatus (or
have vanished entirely), and others are still operating in the open
here or on eBay.  The wise buyer will do their homework on a seller
before making a purchase - so launching a new round of venom on the
List is unnecessary and distasteful.

I wish all of our space rock brothers a happy holiday season -
American, Moroccan, European, Asian, or otherwise.

Best regards, clear skies, and happy huntings,

MikeG

PS - thanks for the continued prayers.  My wife is slowly improving
and should be out of the hospital before Christmas. :)


-- 
.........................................................
Michael Gilmer (Florida, USA)
Member of the Meteoritical Society.
Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com
FaceBook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale
Twitter - Twitter - http://twitter.com/GalacticStone
eBay - http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/maypickle
..........................................................


From mstreman at gmail.com  Sun Dec 20 18:52:30 2009
From: mstreman at gmail.com (MstrEman)
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 18:52:30 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Steve Arnold (Elgin). Man of his word.
In-Reply-To: <4B2DE2C2.3040104@meteoritesusa.com>
References: <SNT102-W11F992C7060501DA8187F4A2830@phx.gbl>
	<4B2DE2C2.3040104@meteoritesusa.com>
Message-ID: <704f522a0912201552k5c98a037kaa7d210411b71c02@mail.gmail.com>

Again --I believe this to be a service--  7 years of repeated
misbehavior should show a permanent pattern of un-trustworthiness and
and a total failure to become trustworthy--Yet many of you continue to
buy from HIM based on HIS word alone that you are getting what you
paid for. Many have come forward with accounts of being cheated by
Steve. They are the ones that get chastised for creating a
disturbance.  What is the problem with this picture, Eric?

I for one want the list archives replete with the other side of the
Jerkle- Hyde Steve Saga so when all the "bleeding hearts defense
posts" are searched the searcher will know the rest of the story.

Plus you obviously haven't had to deal with Steve's presence as long
as many of us have.

Elton

 PS Using Steve logic-- "I never wrote this and you can't prove I did
so you can always get the complete truth with each post I make as I am
not accountable for my previous statements and this one either" I
promise I'll never ever harass you or lie to you or cheat you--until
next time anyway.  Now re-post this theme, semi-daily and see how long
it takes to become repugnant.

On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 3:39 AM, Meteorites USA <eric at meteoritesusa.com> wrote:
> What exactly is your point? ?(rhetorical of course) Who's the one with the
> problem? The one who apologizes for some of the things they've done, or the
> one who points out the faults of others and consistently posts negative
> comments and BS with an obvious prejudice that no one wants to read, and all
> in all never contributes anything but negativity to the list.

Please ,Please--- how could you of all people miss the point so far off mark?

> Must have
> taken a while to compile the "apologies". What have you contributed to the
> list that can be deemed the least bit noteworthy or positive beside brash
> attempts at slamming other on the list? Nothing that I've seen...

Another excellent rhetorical question but it is not one any of us
asked about our own posts, now is it.
>
> But then again I didn't search through 7 years of posts to make my point
> either...
>
> Regards,
> Eric


From garychase at live.com  Sun Dec 20 19:28:59 2009
From: garychase at live.com (Gary Chase)
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 16:28:59 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Steve Arnold (Elgin). Man of his word.
In-Reply-To: <704f522a0912201552k5c98a037kaa7d210411b71c02@mail.gmail.com>
References: <SNT102-W11F992C7060501DA8187F4A2830@phx.gbl>,
	<4B2DE2C2.3040104@meteoritesusa.com>,
	<704f522a0912201552k5c98a037kaa7d210411b71c02@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <COL106-W22080EC17A0566DF66F522D2820@phx.gbl>


It took a while to wade through all the historical posts as I am relatively new member.  Until now, I just thought he was a harmless goof.  Now, I see that there is a pattern of behavior that leads me to belive that he has a mental problem and can not help himself.  So go easy.
 
I would compare the freebies to the neighborhood crack dealer that gives your your first high for free.  Now you are hooked.
 
Gary

> Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 18:52:30 -0500
> From: mstreman at gmail.com
> To: eric at meteoritesusa.com
> CC: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Steve Arnold (Elgin). Man of his word.
> 
> Again --I believe this to be a service-- 7 years of repeated
> misbehavior should show a permanent pattern of un-trustworthiness and
> and a total failure to become trustworthy--Yet many of you continue to
> buy from HIM based on HIS word alone that you are getting what you
> paid for. Many have come forward with accounts of being cheated by
> Steve. They are the ones that get chastised for creating a
> disturbance. What is the problem with this picture, Eric?
> 
> I for one want the list archives replete with the other side of the
> Jerkle- Hyde Steve Saga so when all the "bleeding hearts defense
> posts" are searched the searcher will know the rest of the story.
> 
> Plus you obviously haven't had to deal with Steve's presence as long
> as many of us have.
> 
> Elton
> 
> PS Using Steve logic-- "I never wrote this and you can't prove I did
> so you can always get the complete truth with each post I make as I am
> not accountable for my previous statements and this one either" I
> promise I'll never ever harass you or lie to you or cheat you--until
> next time anyway. Now re-post this theme, semi-daily and see how long
> it takes to become repugnant.
> 
> On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 3:39 AM, Meteorites USA <eric at meteoritesusa.com> wrote:
>> What exactly is your point?  (rhetorical of course) Who's the one with the
>> problem? The one who apologizes for some of the things they've done, or the
>> one who points out the faults of others and consistently posts negative
>> comments and BS with an obvious prejudice that no one wants to read, and all
>> in all never contributes anything but negativity to the list.
> 
> Please ,Please--- how could you of all people miss the point so far off mark?
> 
>> Must have
>> taken a while to compile the "apologies". What have you contributed to the
>> list that can be deemed the least bit noteworthy or positive beside brash
>> attempts at slamming other on the list? Nothing that I've seen...
> 
> Another excellent rhetorical question but it is not one any of us
> asked about our own posts, now is it.
>>
>> But then again I didn't search through 7 years of posts to make my point
>> either...
>>
>> Regards,
>> Eric
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141665/direct/01/

From GeoZay at aol.com  Sun Dec 20 19:34:53 2009
From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 19:34:53 EST
Subject: [meteorite-list] Steve Arnold (Elgin). Man of his word.
Message-ID: <c97.571f76d0.38601cad@aol.com>

>>I would compare the freebies to the  neighborhood crack dealer that gives 
your your first high for free.  Now  you are hooked.<<

Hooked on what...to receive more freebies? I  hope he sends me more then.  
:O)
GeoZay  



From carothersdl at gmail.com  Sun Dec 20 19:41:37 2009
From: carothersdl at gmail.com (dave carothers)
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 19:41:37 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Steve Arnold (Elgin). Man of his word.
References: <SNT102-W11F992C7060501DA8187F4A2830@phx.gbl><4B2DE2C2.3040104@meteoritesusa.com>
	<704f522a0912201552k5c98a037kaa7d210411b71c02@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E4D216EDE0224585ADB45598CC378D98@your291etg47cr>

Amen!!!

Dave

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "MstrEman" <mstreman at gmail.com>
To: "Meteorites USA" <eric at meteoritesusa.com>
Cc: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 6:52 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Steve Arnold (Elgin). Man of his word.


Again --I believe this to be a service--  7 years of repeated
misbehavior should show a permanent pattern of un-trustworthiness and
and a total failure to become trustworthy--Yet many of you continue to
buy from HIM based on HIS word alone that you are getting what you
paid for. Many have come forward with accounts of being cheated by
Steve. They are the ones that get chastised for creating a
disturbance.  What is the problem with this picture, Eric?

I for one want the list archives replete with the other side of the
Jerkle- Hyde Steve Saga so when all the "bleeding hearts defense
posts" are searched the searcher will know the rest of the story.

Plus you obviously haven't had to deal with Steve's presence as long
as many of us have.

Elton

 PS Using Steve logic-- "I never wrote this and you can't prove I did
so you can always get the complete truth with each post I make as I am
not accountable for my previous statements and this one either" I
promise I'll never ever harass you or lie to you or cheat you--until
next time anyway.  Now re-post this theme, semi-daily and see how long
it takes to become repugnant.

On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 3:39 AM, Meteorites USA <eric at meteoritesusa.com> 
wrote:
> What exactly is your point? (rhetorical of course) Who's the one with the
> problem? The one who apologizes for some of the things they've done, or 
> the
> one who points out the faults of others and consistently posts negative
> comments and BS with an obvious prejudice that no one wants to read, and 
> all
> in all never contributes anything but negativity to the list.

Please ,Please--- how could you of all people miss the point so far off 
mark?

> Must have
> taken a while to compile the "apologies". What have you contributed to the
> list that can be deemed the least bit noteworthy or positive beside brash
> attempts at slamming other on the list? Nothing that I've seen...

Another excellent rhetorical question but it is not one any of us
asked about our own posts, now is it.
>
> But then again I didn't search through 7 years of posts to make my point
> either...
>
> Regards,
> Eric
______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From garychase at live.com  Sun Dec 20 19:49:22 2009
From: garychase at live.com (Gary Chase)
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 16:49:22 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Steve Arnold (Elgin). Man of his word.
In-Reply-To: <c97.571f76d0.38601cad@aol.com>
References: <c97.571f76d0.38601cad@aol.com>
Message-ID: <COL106-W446578D22D54BABA121360D2820@phx.gbl>


No, more like you think he is a great guy for giving you free crack.  Then after you loose your job, family and end up living on the streat, you realize there is no such thing as a freebie.
 
All freebies come with a price.  The question to be asked is what is the price?  My integrity?
 
Gary

----------------------------------------
> From: GeoZay at aol.com
> Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 19:34:53 -0500
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Steve Arnold (Elgin). Man of his word.
> To: garychase at live.com; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>
>>>I would compare the freebies to the neighborhood crack dealer that gives
> your your first high for free. Now you are hooked.<<
>
> Hooked on what...to receive more freebies? I hope he sends me more then.
> :O)
> GeoZay
> 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222984/direct/01/

From carothersdl at gmail.com  Sun Dec 20 19:59:01 2009
From: carothersdl at gmail.com (dave carothers)
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 19:59:01 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Steve Arnold (Elgin). Man of his word.
References: <c97.571f76d0.38601cad@aol.com>
	<COL106-W446578D22D54BABA121360D2820@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <143C605707124132ACC6F1D77EC97827@your291etg47cr>

Well said.  Lie down with dogs, get up with fleas.

Dave

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Gary Chase" <garychase at live.com>
To: "meteoritecentral" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 7:49 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Steve Arnold (Elgin). Man of his word.


>
> No, more like you think he is a great guy for giving you free crack.  Then 
> after you loose your job, family and end up living on the streat, you 
> realize there is no such thing as a freebie.
>
> All freebies come with a price.  The question to be asked is what is the 
> price?  My integrity?
>
> Gary
>
> ----------------------------------------
>> From: GeoZay at aol.com
>> Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 19:34:53 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Steve Arnold (Elgin). Man of his word.
>> To: garychase at live.com; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>
>>>>I would compare the freebies to the neighborhood crack dealer that gives
>> your your first high for free. Now you are hooked.<<
>>
>> Hooked on what...to receive more freebies? I hope he sends me more then.
>> :O)
>> GeoZay
>>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222984/direct/01/
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From stanleygregr at hotmail.com  Sun Dec 20 20:05:22 2009
From: stanleygregr at hotmail.com (Greg Stanley)
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 17:05:22 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Steve Arnold (Elgin). Man of his word.
In-Reply-To: <COL106-W446578D22D54BABA121360D2820@phx.gbl>
References: <c97.571f76d0.38601cad@aol.com>,
	<COL106-W446578D22D54BABA121360D2820@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <SNT117-W14ACB24F0E4E4ECD1E6BCED2820@phx.gbl>


Guys:
 
Yea ? I continuously email Steve begging for freebies? sweating and hyperactive until he sends me more? ?come on,? how can you equate drugs to meteorites.  I have received a few freebies from Steve and a some are nice specimens, and I gave some away myself to a friend of my wife?s: who is ill.  If someone wants to buy meteorites from Steve, then that is their decision.  Why do people get so personal on this list? Is that not one of the 'rules' too. I understand now why people leave.
 
Merry Christmas to all..
 
Greg S.

> From: garychase at live.com
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 16:49:22 -0800
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Steve Arnold (Elgin). Man of his word.
> 
> 
> No, more like you think he is a great guy for giving you free crack. Then after you loose your job, family and end up living on the streat, you realize there is no such thing as a freebie.
> 
> All freebies come with a price. The question to be asked is what is the price? My integrity?
> 
> Gary
> 
> ----------------------------------------
>> From: GeoZay at aol.com
>> Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 19:34:53 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Steve Arnold (Elgin). Man of his word.
>> To: garychase at live.com; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>
>>>>I would compare the freebies to the neighborhood crack dealer that gives
>> your your first high for free. Now you are hooked.<<
>>
>> Hooked on what...to receive more freebies? I hope he sends me more then.
>> :O)
>> GeoZay
>> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222984/direct/01/
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft?s powerful SPAM protection.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141664/direct/01/

From GeoZay at aol.com  Sun Dec 20 20:05:40 2009
From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 20:05:40 EST
Subject: [meteorite-list] Steve Arnold (Elgin). Man of his word.
Message-ID: <c7b.6818a792.386023e4@aol.com>

>>??No, more like you think he is a great  guy for giving you free crack. >>
But he's not giving me crack...just a  meteorite. The same thing you and 
most people on this list purchase. Are you  actually saying that crack and 
meteorites are equally bad? 
>> Then  after you loose your job, family and end up living on the streat, 
you realize  there is no such thing as a freebie.<<
I suppose some folks can lose  their jobs for meteorite acquisitions, but 
I'm not sure how? I've had contact  with Steven for at least 2 maybe 3 years 
now and he's never asked anything of  me. Actually, almost all of our 
conversations have simply laid along the lines  of making arrangements of him 
mailing me a freebie. 

>>All freebies  come with a price.<<

Postage? Actually, he usually pays for this as  well. 

>> The question to be asked is what is the  price?  My integrity?<<

I guess that's it...I lack integrity  for accepting free meteorites from 
him. Dang...I must be a real threat to the  dealers. :O)
GeoZay  



From GeoZay at aol.com  Sun Dec 20 20:10:38 2009
From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 20:10:38 EST
Subject: [meteorite-list] Steve Arnold (Elgin). Man of his word.
Message-ID: <d5c.55626f78.3860250e@aol.com>

>>Well said.  Lie down with dogs, get  up with fleas.>>

Lets see....following this parody the "dogs" are  those who distribute 
meteorites (fleas)...whether they are given to you for no  cost or a dealer that 
sells them to you? 
GeoZay  



From darryl at dof3.com  Sun Dec 20 21:21:54 2009
From: darryl at dof3.com (Darryl Pitt)
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 21:21:54 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Steve Arnold (Elgin). Man of his word.
In-Reply-To: <c7b.6818a792.386023e4@aol.com>
References: <c7b.6818a792.386023e4@aol.com>
Message-ID: <C21507EF-6B8E-4CB1-A4FF-2EFFEEA01D20@dof3.com>



Thank goodness there are no freebie-giving Moroccans.







On Dec 20, 2009, at 8:05 PM, GeoZay at aol.com wrote:

>>> ??No, more like you think he is a great  guy for giving you free  
>>> crack. >>
> But he's not giving me crack...just a  meteorite. The same thing you  
> and
> most people on this list purchase. Are you  actually saying that  
> crack and
> meteorites are equally bad?
>>> Then  after you loose your job, family and end up living on the  
>>> streat,
> you realize  there is no such thing as a freebie.<<
> I suppose some folks can lose  their jobs for meteorite  
> acquisitions, but
> I'm not sure how? I've had contact  with Steven for at least 2 maybe  
> 3 years
> now and he's never asked anything of  me. Actually, almost all of our
> conversations have simply laid along the lines  of making  
> arrangements of him
> mailing me a freebie.
>
>>> All freebies  come with a price.<<
>
> Postage? Actually, he usually pays for this as  well.
>
>>> The question to be asked is what is the  price?  My integrity?<<
>
> I guess that's it...I lack integrity  for accepting free meteorites  
> from
> him. Dang...I must be a real threat to the  dealers. :O)
> GeoZay
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From MeteorHntr at aol.com  Sun Dec 20 21:55:41 2009
From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 21:55:41 EST
Subject: [meteorite-list] Steve Arnold (Elgin). Man of his word.
Message-ID: <be0.6ea123f8.38603dad@aol.com>

Hey list,

Just a little note...for the record...for those that are  not aware, there 
are two "Steve Arnold" individuals in the meteorite  world.  One is:  

1.   Steve Arnold, who lives in  Arkansas, who also is the co-host (along 
with Geoff Notkin) of Science Channel's  TV series "Meteorite Men" who has 
been full time in the meteorite business for  over 17 years...

...and the other is:

2.   Steve Arnold  from Elgin (Chicago) Illinois, who is a collector and 
who is...who is...  well...at the very least, he is the one referred to in 
this Meteorite List  thread.

Please don't confuse these two Steve Arnold's with each  other!  

Thanks. 

On a personal note, I have been a bit too  busy the last few months to 
respond here as much as I would like.  All too  often I would read an email 
thread a week after the first post was made and the  issues would seem to be 
resolved by the time I would get around to reading the  thread.

Just a note to those of you who are curious, Geoff and I just  returned 
this weekend from a trip to Nevada spending time with a crew of 20  
professional TV crew members shooting a TV promotion commercial of our new  series 
"Meteorite Men."  This last week, when we arrived on to the location  of the 
shoot,  it looked more like we were coming onto the set of LOST or  CSI as 
opposed to the normal "Meteorite Men" production "set."

Normally  we have a much smaller crew chasing us as we have been trying to 
shoot this  first season of episodes the last few months, but this last week 
was  different. 

The production team hired to make the commercial spot is  scheduled to have 
a various assortment of finished 30 second commercial spots  delivered, to 
the Science Channel network, to start running by December  30.  We have been 
told that the spot will run on ALL of Discovery's  channels, and not just 
on Science Channel.   So, for those of you that  don't have the Science 
Channel, keep your eye's open for it on Discovery, TLC,  Military, and the other 
U.S. Discovery channels. 

Also, just as a heads  up, if the promotion staff of Discovery (Science 
Channel's parent company)  chooses to go a bit "over the top" with the 
promotion commercials, and they  choose to use a bit of "artistic license" with the 
topics that they choose to  produce, we hope the "purists" in our midst will 
understand.  ;-)

If  the commercials just run 10 times a day on each of the 10 US Discovery 
Channels  then that would be 100 showings each day of the commercials 
promoting meteorites  over EACH of the next 60 days.  I am not good at math, but 
we can  expect, just from the commercials, for millions of people to be 
exposed to field  of meteoritics for the first time, from these commercials. 

For those of  you that have been considering upgrading to get Science 
Channel on your DIRECTV  connection, so that you can see all of the episodes of 
"Meteorite Men" come  January 20th,  I invite you to email me OFF LIST to get 
a special  DIRECTV deal.

For everyone that already subscribes to Science Channel, I  invite you to 
mark you calendars (or program your DVRs) for January 20, and for  each 
Wednesday afterwards for the next 6 weeks, at 9 pm (Eastern) for a new  episode 
of "Meteorite Men."  (And if anyone on this list is a Neilson Box  viewer, 
please contact me off list for a very special offer. ;-)

I think  Geoff Notkin mentioned here on the Meteorite List about the 
upcoming 2010  Meteorite Mayhem Birthday Bash in a previous posting, but I should 
add that this  year's Notkin/Arnold event promises to be VERY worthwhile to 
attend.  So  much so, I encourage everyone planning to come to the Tucson 
Show, to arrive  early enough to make it in time to attend the big party on 
the evening  of February 5, 2010.  

While Michael Blood's Auction is great  to attend on Saturday, the fun 
actually starts about 24 hours earlier at the  Birthday Bash on Friday Night.

For those of you who have not attended one  of the Birthday Bash events in 
the past decade, the gathering is only about 2%  about it being "a couple of 
guys birthday," and it is closer to around 98% an  event about "an 
opportunity to mingle and hook up with all of the fellow global  meteorite 
enthusiasts (dealers, collectors, scientists, etc) that does not occur  anywhere else 
during the year, this side of the Asteroid Belt."   

Over the dozen or so years that I have attended the Tucson Show, with  the 
exception of Adan Hupe's comments here on the list about a bad hotel  
experience, I don't think I have heard ANYONE else ever regretting taking a trip  
to Tucson.  I know for some people, in this economic climate, it might be a  
stretch to justify going to Tucson...however, I can almost assure everyone, 
that  if you chose to go, it will be one of the best choices you will ever 
make.  

I hope everyone on the list that will want to go, can make it. And I  look 
forward to meeting up with all of you again at Tucson '10.
 
Until then, I wish all of you a Merry Christmas, and a happy New  Year!

Steve Arnold
www.MeteoriteMen.com  












In a message dated  12/20/2009 5:31:50 P.M. Central Standard Time, 
mstreman at gmail.com  writes:
Dear Guy I think Bill serves the community at large to remind the  list
and newbies who know nothing about the real Steve-- so, sorry  I
strongly disagree that we should all use the delete button.  Steve  has
contaminated our collections with his fake/mislabeled/  relabeled
specimens.  Conversely Steve could have spent his time  acting
responsibly and not being a @#&#.  Where is YOUR indignation  at Steve?

And George?  Is Steve a dealer or not? Sure acts like one  but he says
he is not one.
Yeah yeah yeah yada yada ---but how many have  gotten fake meteorites
and how many have been outright cheated out of what  they paid for?
--You folks that defend Steve's giveaways are kool-aid  drinkers that
would accept free arsenic-laced kool-aid and think it a swell  friendly
gesture because it was a freebie and would defend his right  to
distribute it with your dying breath.  If I loved art and could  afford
a Picasso and I wanted to chop it up because it was mine to do as  I
please--is it morally right to allow me to do so? You Steve  defenders
think yes it is ok  as long as you get a piece.

This  "well Steve has never cheated me" comment is confoundedly naive.
Do you also  disbelieve your parents when they say don't touch the iron
it is hot and have  to touch it for yourself ?  You that defend him
because he has never  cheated you personally--or those with memories
shorter than a few days WILL  be cheated eventually and then you'll
whine about getting cheated.  You  deserve what you get and it won't be
sympathy from me.

Bottom line:  those that defend Steve are either sub rock dwellers who
are oblivious to the  Real Steve and should gird themselves with a dose
of reality prior to opening  their mouths  OR they are just unethical
compulsive enablers that keep  his pathological game play going because
they do not have the ethics to do  otherwise.

If anyone else had ran a scam just once like Arnold does  daily, the
list would be outraged.  Misplaced sympathy for poor generous  Steve
--held by so many allegedly informed and intelligent folk speaks  very
poorly about their judgment in general.  MOST children are  too
immature to play with real loaded firearms but some enablers  allow
them to do so because it is so cute and charming but most feel it  is
immoral to let children play with firearms.

Same-- same --for  distributing meteorites by child-like adults and to
other child or childlike  personalities People who take hammers to
meteorites just to give away pieces  to garner sympathy /attention
would not be allowed to own them if I were  king. Why so many can't
distinguish St Nick from the Grench in this  discussion is beyond me.

Elton who is also sick of "well poor Steve has a  problem so we should
never confront him" liberal touchy-feelly "jello for a  back-bone"
mouth pieces.

Merry Fracking Christmas
 


From drtanuki at yahoo.com  Sun Dec 20 22:54:32 2009
From: drtanuki at yahoo.com (drtanuki)
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 19:54:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Beijing China Meteor 16DEC09
Message-ID: <959858.54799.qm@web53107.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Dear List,
  It seems now confirmed so am posting:

Latest Worldwide Meteor/Meteorite News: 21DEC09 Meteor/Meteorite News
By LunarMeteorite*Hunter
Meteor hunt in Beijing continues. China Daily Witnesses in Beijing and nearby Tianjin recorded a clearly visible fireball-like meteorite descending near the west horizon of Beijing at 10:23 pm on Dec 16 . ...
Latest Worldwide Meteor/Meteorite News - http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.com/
 
  The original Chinese story is also posted on my website.

Best Regards, Dirk Ross...Tokyo



From bobl at peaktopeak.com  Sun Dec 20 23:09:42 2009
From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler)
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 21:09:42 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Steve Arnold (Elgin). Man of his word.
In-Reply-To: <c7b.6818a792.386023e4@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20091221040944.C097910572@mailwash5.pair.com>

Hi GeoZay and others,

>From what I've seen from Steve over the last 2 years (that's how long I've
been on the list), he has been a good, upstanding citizen of the Met list,
although yes, he has waaaaaay too many ads.

But, I have seen other e-mails on this list that say that he is a cheater.
For example, maybe he has a met specimen that is one thing, but he says that
it's something else (e.g. the labeling is incorrect).  I have never seen
this problem first hand from him, but I think that this is where the
animosity on this list about him comes from.  In other words, it's not just
from the constant ads that he posts here.  I got a free meteorite from
him... and I'm grateful for that... but from what I've seen, maybe he isn't
careful enough about what he is giving away or selling. I'm definitely not
an expert, but when I got the freebie from him, the label was hand written
(probably by him) and there is no way to know whether it was really what he
said it was.  He did not provide a real label from the original seller.  I
could sell you a Lunar without a label and there is no way for you to know
if it's really a lunar or terrestrial or something else.  Maybe he is the
most reputable guy on this list, or maybe not.  Whether he gives away lots
of freebies or not doesn't matter.  That could be a front to make him look
good.  Or, maybe he really is that nice of a guy.  I don't know.

There is a history that most of us don't know about.  We are reminded of it
every few months on this list.  But, there are always a few people who say
"he treated me well with freebies", but there are those who have been around
long enough who might've been burned by Steve.  I'm not saying that it
actually happened, because I wasn't on this list back then, but... if it
happened, then we shouldn't get in the middle of it because we weren't there
when it happened.  If someone was burned by him, they should let us know
exactly what happened so we can be aware of it.

Regards,

Bob


-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of
GeoZay at aol.com
Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 6:06 PM
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Steve Arnold (Elgin). Man of his word.

>>??No, more like you think he is a great  guy for giving you free crack. >>
But he's not giving me crack...just a  meteorite. The same thing you and 
most people on this list purchase. Are you  actually saying that crack and 
meteorites are equally bad? 
>> Then  after you loose your job, family and end up living on the streat, 
you realize  there is no such thing as a freebie.<<
I suppose some folks can lose  their jobs for meteorite acquisitions, but 
I'm not sure how? I've had contact  with Steven for at least 2 maybe 3 years

now and he's never asked anything of  me. Actually, almost all of our 
conversations have simply laid along the lines  of making arrangements of
him 
mailing me a freebie. 

>>All freebies  come with a price.<<

Postage? Actually, he usually pays for this as  well. 

>> The question to be asked is what is the  price?  My integrity?<<

I guess that's it...I lack integrity  for accepting free meteorites from 
him. Dang...I must be a real threat to the  dealers. :O)
GeoZay  

______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
Version: 9.0.717 / Virus Database: 270.14.115/2577 - Release Date: 12/20/09
00:35:00



From bobl at peaktopeak.com  Sun Dec 20 23:23:01 2009
From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler)
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 21:23:01 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] NWAs; a little more civil discussion, please
In-Reply-To: <327382.59169.qm@web62008.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20091221042307.C166810537@mailwash5.pair.com>

Hi all,

This is getting tiring.  How about we do this.... 

Greg Hupe contacts the Moroccan's that he has problems with and tries to
reconcile with them the problems that he has had.

Bob



-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of habibi
abdelaziz
Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 1:38 PM
To: meteorite list
Subject: [meteorite-list] NWAs; a little more civil discussion, please

Hi all - 

grondine wrote

We see adds for unclassified NWAs by the kilo. Clearly the Moroccans would
like to be able to directly sell unclassified NWAs mentioning possible
classes. 
-----------------------------
no, they are from 15 year selling unclassified nwa nothing has changed , see
the meteortical bulletain , in 5000 nwa 10 or so have been classified by nwa
guys, so this is not the problem, they are selling the same way they are
doing there is 15 years,
---------------------------
I am pretty certain that when finders come in with stones for them, they
have to make eyeball determinations. 
----------------------------------------
yes you are right ,we do gamble each day , you get it or you leave it , its
the middlemans that support tha gamble , the world dealer? buy with garantie
is it turn to be not good they are refunded,? so what has changed nothing,
---------------------------------------------------------

Can not some reasonable wording be found, or some new word or term, like
"unclassified possible" be come up with? Something that would be clear? 
And could there be some kind of IMCA guarantee that is the "possible" turns
out to be "impossible", there be some kind of regular refund/exchange
mechanism set in place? -
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------

i have asked for that last year , to inculde many moorcans in the imca and
ask them to fallow the rules.........................
____________________________________________________________________________
_________
In other words, some kind of rules so that Moroccan middlemen could be
recognized by the IMCA? 
Can some reasonable solution be found? 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------
do trust you partner if there is a problem ask for a refund , also you can
ask for a sample before you buy and than everything is easy



Could I ask for a little more civiliaty in this discussion? 

===================================
yes i agree with you this list need more respectfull debat and discussion
incase of this barbaries and this noise;
?no one has the right to treat anyone badly or saying bad words , no one?has
this right.

so ask i ask here for more wise and respectfull? comminications



habibi aziz 
box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco 
phone. 21235576145 
fax.21235576170</font>


      
______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
Version: 9.0.717 / Virus Database: 270.14.115/2577 - Release Date: 12/20/09
00:35:00



From dave at fallingrocks.com  Sun Dec 20 23:27:11 2009
From: dave at fallingrocks.com (Dave Gheesling)
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 23:27:11 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Steve Arnold (Elgin). Man of his word.
In-Reply-To: <20091221040944.C097910572@mailwash5.pair.com>
References: <c7b.6818a792.386023e4@aol.com>
	<20091221040944.C097910572@mailwash5.pair.com>
Message-ID: <CF0A225A215543C4B33969119600C751@meteorroom>

Yes Bob.  And if said allegations were true, then it would not be an
individual who's integrity was diminished by accepting such freebies...but
rather the integrity of his collection.  Authenticity, provenance,
integrity...absolutely paramount to this arena.
Dave 

-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Bob
Loeffler
Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 11:10 PM
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Steve Arnold (Elgin). Man of his word.

Hi GeoZay and others,

>From what I've seen from Steve over the last 2 years (that's how long 
>I've
been on the list), he has been a good, upstanding citizen of the Met list,
although yes, he has waaaaaay too many ads.

But, I have seen other e-mails on this list that say that he is a cheater.
For example, maybe he has a met specimen that is one thing, but he says that
it's something else (e.g. the labeling is incorrect).  I have never seen
this problem first hand from him, but I think that this is where the
animosity on this list about him comes from.  In other words, it's not just
from the constant ads that he posts here.  I got a free meteorite from
him... and I'm grateful for that... but from what I've seen, maybe he isn't
careful enough about what he is giving away or selling. I'm definitely not
an expert, but when I got the freebie from him, the label was hand written
(probably by him) and there is no way to know whether it was really what he
said it was.  He did not provide a real label from the original seller.  I
could sell you a Lunar without a label and there is no way for you to know
if it's really a lunar or terrestrial or something else.  Maybe he is the
most reputable guy on this list, or maybe not.  Whether he gives away lots
of freebies or not doesn't matter.  That could be a front to make him look
good.  Or, maybe he really is that nice of a guy.  I don't know.

There is a history that most of us don't know about.  We are reminded of it
every few months on this list.  But, there are always a few people who say
"he treated me well with freebies", but there are those who have been around
long enough who might've been burned by Steve.  I'm not saying that it
actually happened, because I wasn't on this list back then, but... if it
happened, then we shouldn't get in the middle of it because we weren't there
when it happened.  If someone was burned by him, they should let us know
exactly what happened so we can be aware of it.

Regards,

Bob


-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of
GeoZay at aol.com
Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 6:06 PM
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Steve Arnold (Elgin). Man of his word.

>>??No, more like you think he is a great  guy for giving you free 
>>crack. >>
But he's not giving me crack...just a  meteorite. The same thing you and
most people on this list purchase. Are you  actually saying that crack and
meteorites are equally bad? 
>> Then  after you loose your job, family and end up living on the 
>> streat,
you realize  there is no such thing as a freebie.<< I suppose some folks can
lose  their jobs for meteorite acquisitions, but I'm not sure how? I've had
contact  with Steven for at least 2 maybe 3 years

now and he's never asked anything of  me. Actually, almost all of our
conversations have simply laid along the lines  of making arrangements of
him mailing me a freebie. 

>>All freebies  come with a price.<<

Postage? Actually, he usually pays for this as  well. 

>> The question to be asked is what is the  price?  My integrity?<<

I guess that's it...I lack integrity  for accepting free meteorites from
him. Dang...I must be a real threat to the  dealers. :O) GeoZay  

______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.717 / Virus Database: 270.14.115/2577 - Release Date: 12/20/09
00:35:00

______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From bobl at peaktopeak.com  Sun Dec 20 23:47:55 2009
From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler)
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 21:47:55 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] NWAs; a little more civil discussion, please
Message-ID: <20091221044757.58880105B9@mailwash5.pair.com>

Sorry, I think my last e-mail got sent before I was done...

After Greg Hupe contacts the Moroccan's who he has a problem with, if he
doesn't get resolutions that he expects, then he should let all of us know
who is involved, what happened and why he is still angry.  I'm sure he has
tried this before, but let's just assume that they never got the
notification from Greg for whatever reason, so Greg should try one more
time.  Let us know exactly which ones he has a problem with so we don't
assume that it really is "ALL Moroccans".  Obviously, he hasn't dealt with
ALL Moroccans, just like ALL American dealers suck (which I have also
heard), but we know that this is not true.  It's just a generalization.

I have purchased meteorites from Greg via eBay in the past, but I might not
anymore unless he "mans up" with the details, instead of saying "all
Moroccans".  That's a cop out.  I don't have any financial gain for what I'm
requesting.  I believe in fairness and full disclosure.  If people don't
want to fully disclose the problems that they've dealt with, then don't even
mention it here on the list!  We don't want to hear it!  Don't mention it in
passing if you don't want to give the full details.  It doesn't help any of
us if we don't know the whole story.  If direct correspondence with the
party in question doesn't resolve the issue, then let us know the details so
we can make an informed decision.

I'm sorry for being so direct (that is usually not like me), but this
bitching back and forth really starts to wear on me (and others, I'm sure)
when nothing gets accomplished.  Give us details. If it's the truth, then
you have nothing to worry about.

Thanks,

Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Loeffler [mailto:bobl at peaktopeak.com]
Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 9:23 PM
To: 'habibi abdelaziz'; 'meteorite list'
Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] NWAs; a little more civil discussion, please

Hi all,

This is getting tiring.  How about we do this.... 

Greg Hupe contacts the Moroccan's that he has problems with and tries to
reconcile with them the problems that he has had.

Bob



-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of habibi
abdelaziz
Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 1:38 PM
To: meteorite list
Subject: [meteorite-list] NWAs; a little more civil discussion, please

Hi all - 

grondine wrote

We see adds for unclassified NWAs by the kilo. Clearly the Moroccans would
like to be able to directly sell unclassified NWAs mentioning possible
classes. 
-----------------------------
no, they are from 15 year selling unclassified nwa nothing has changed , see
the meteortical bulletain , in 5000 nwa 10 or so have been classified by nwa
guys, so this is not the problem, they are selling the same way they are
doing there is 15 years,
---------------------------
I am pretty certain that when finders come in with stones for them, they
have to make eyeball determinations. 
----------------------------------------
yes you are right ,we do gamble each day , you get it or you leave it , its
the middlemans that support tha gamble , the world dealer? buy with garantie
is it turn to be not good they are refunded,? so what has changed nothing,
---------------------------------------------------------

Can not some reasonable wording be found, or some new word or term, like
"unclassified possible" be come up with? Something that would be clear? 
And could there be some kind of IMCA guarantee that is the "possible" turns
out to be "impossible", there be some kind of regular refund/exchange
mechanism set in place? -
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------

i have asked for that last year , to inculde many moorcans in the imca and
ask them to fallow the rules.........................
____________________________________________________________________________
_________
In other words, some kind of rules so that Moroccan middlemen could be
recognized by the IMCA? 
Can some reasonable solution be found? 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------
do trust you partner if there is a problem ask for a refund , also you can
ask for a sample before you buy and than everything is easy



Could I ask for a little more civiliaty in this discussion? 

===================================
yes i agree with you this list need more respectfull debat and discussion
incase of this barbaries and this noise;
?no one has the right to treat anyone badly or saying bad words , no one?has
this right.

so ask i ask here for more wise and respectfull? comminications



habibi aziz 
box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco 
phone. 21235576145 
fax.21235576170</font>


      
______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
Version: 9.0.717 / Virus Database: 270.14.115/2577 - Release Date: 12/20/09
00:35:00



From bobl at peaktopeak.com  Sun Dec 20 23:57:19 2009
From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler)
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 21:57:19 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Steve Arnold (Elgin). Man of his word.
In-Reply-To: <CF0A225A215543C4B33969119600C751@meteorroom>
Message-ID: <20091221045721.A2E5C105A8@mailwash5.pair.com>

Hi Dave,

Exactly.  If Chicago Steve is misrepresenting his freebies (or the ones that
he sells), that could affect a lot of people's collections.  This goes for
everyone, not just Steve.

Bob



-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Gheesling [mailto:dave at fallingrocks.com] 
Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 9:27 PM
To: 'Bob Loeffler'; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Steve Arnold (Elgin). Man of his word.

Yes Bob.  And if said allegations were true, then it would not be an
individual who's integrity was diminished by accepting such freebies...but
rather the integrity of his collection.  Authenticity, provenance,
integrity...absolutely paramount to this arena.
Dave 

-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Bob
Loeffler
Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 11:10 PM
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Steve Arnold (Elgin). Man of his word.

Hi GeoZay and others,

>From what I've seen from Steve over the last 2 years (that's how long 
>I've
been on the list), he has been a good, upstanding citizen of the Met list,
although yes, he has waaaaaay too many ads.

But, I have seen other e-mails on this list that say that he is a cheater.
For example, maybe he has a met specimen that is one thing, but he says that
it's something else (e.g. the labeling is incorrect).  I have never seen
this problem first hand from him, but I think that this is where the
animosity on this list about him comes from.  In other words, it's not just
from the constant ads that he posts here.  I got a free meteorite from
him... and I'm grateful for that... but from what I've seen, maybe he isn't
careful enough about what he is giving away or selling. I'm definitely not
an expert, but when I got the freebie from him, the label was hand written
(probably by him) and there is no way to know whether it was really what he
said it was.  He did not provide a real label from the original seller.  I
could sell you a Lunar without a label and there is no way for you to know
if it's really a lunar or terrestrial or something else.  Maybe he is the
most reputable guy on this list, or maybe not.  Whether he gives away lots
of freebies or not doesn't matter.  That could be a front to make him look
good.  Or, maybe he really is that nice of a guy.  I don't know.

There is a history that most of us don't know about.  We are reminded of it
every few months on this list.  But, there are always a few people who say
"he treated me well with freebies", but there are those who have been around
long enough who might've been burned by Steve.  I'm not saying that it
actually happened, because I wasn't on this list back then, but... if it
happened, then we shouldn't get in the middle of it because we weren't there
when it happened.  If someone was burned by him, they should let us know
exactly what happened so we can be aware of it.

Regards,

Bob


-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of
GeoZay at aol.com
Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 6:06 PM
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Steve Arnold (Elgin). Man of his word.

>>??No, more like you think he is a great  guy for giving you free 
>>crack. >>
But he's not giving me crack...just a  meteorite. The same thing you and
most people on this list purchase. Are you  actually saying that crack and
meteorites are equally bad? 
>> Then  after you loose your job, family and end up living on the 
>> streat,
you realize  there is no such thing as a freebie.<< I suppose some folks can
lose  their jobs for meteorite acquisitions, but I'm not sure how? I've had
contact  with Steven for at least 2 maybe 3 years

now and he's never asked anything of  me. Actually, almost all of our
conversations have simply laid along the lines  of making arrangements of
him mailing me a freebie. 

>>All freebies  come with a price.<<

Postage? Actually, he usually pays for this as  well. 

>> The question to be asked is what is the  price?  My integrity?<<

I guess that's it...I lack integrity  for accepting free meteorites from
him. Dang...I must be a real threat to the  dealers. :O) GeoZay  

______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.717 / Virus Database: 270.14.115/2577 - Release Date: 12/20/09
00:35:00

______________________________________________
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From cynapse at charter.net  Mon Dec 21 07:05:29 2009
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 07:05:29 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Drifting away with the tumbling asteroids
In-Reply-To: <046E892B4B484F39AD3985EAD0A4AF51@DOOGLEDESK>
References: <046E892B4B484F39AD3985EAD0A4AF51@DOOGLEDESK>
Message-ID: <d2pui55tagp43m5cas20bu46icam5sd1t9@4ax.com>

Here's a recent article from Science Illustrated speculating on bolide impacts
triggering continental drift.

http://webpages.charter.net/garrison6328/tmp/


From pierremariepele at yahoo.fr  Mon Dec 21 07:43:48 2009
From: pierremariepele at yahoo.fr (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Pel=E9_Pierre-Marie?=)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 12:43:48 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD> 982 Grams Tafassasset for sale / last time on
	ebay
Message-ID: <665680.15120.qm@web23004.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hello list members,

the 982 grams Tafassasset was not sold so I decided to give it another chance and put it again on ebay.  But it'll be the last time.

After that, I'll cut it in slices to sell it slice by slice so it'll sell this way.

So if you still want to buy it, here's the link :  http://cgi.ebay.fr/Meteorite-de-Tafassasset-specimen-complet-de-982g_W0QQitemZ110471630165QQcmdZViewItemQQptZFR_JG_Collections_Coquillages_Mineraux?hash=item19b89f4d55

And as it's Christmas, I'll do a 10% Off discount on the final price (over 1000 euros of discount) excl. delivery, to List Members (just tell me so).

Bid quickly, and I wish a Merry Christmas to all Meteorite List Members.

Pierre-Marie Pele
www.meteor-center.com


      



From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com  Mon Dec 21 08:07:20 2009
From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 05:07:20 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Steve Arnold-Meteorite Men
In-Reply-To: <mailman.25.1261363634.34381.meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
References: <mailman.25.1261363634.34381.meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
Message-ID: <COL108-W23C82E85DB585444A86F979B820@phx.gbl>


Hey Steve,

Welcome back!! Thanks for the heads up on those commercials on the other channels. Now if only they would air the shows on the other channels so those of us who 


 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222985/direct/01/

From stanleygregr at hotmail.com  Mon Dec 21 12:02:36 2009
From: stanleygregr at hotmail.com (Greg Stanley)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 09:02:36 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] E-chondrites
Message-ID: <SNT117-W82DB8061B976E3B5DDCA5D2820@phx.gbl>


List:

I have a question regarding E-chondrites.? I was told that Enstatite Chondrites have a more gray (dark) matrix than an ordinary chondrite.? They also contain more metal (as a rule) than a typical H-chondrite. Now I always thought it was impossible to recognize an E-chondrite by eye. However, is it possible to recognize an E-chondrite by eye (10x lens) with the color of the matrix and amount of metal?? 

Greg S. 
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222986/direct/01/

From marcin at meteoryt.net  Mon Dec 21 12:42:21 2009
From: marcin at meteoryt.net (Marcin Cimala)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 18:42:21 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] E-chondrites
References: <SNT117-W82DB8061B976E3B5DDCA5D2820@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <0ED542A32ABC449EA045BE20854F488F@polandmezrd5i9>

> List:
>
> I have a question regarding E-chondrites. I was told that Enstatite 
> Chondrites have a more gray (dark) matrix than an ordinary chondrite. They 
> also contain more metal (as a rule) than a typical H-chondrite. Now I 
> always thought it was impossible to recognize an E-chondrite by eye. 
> However, is it possible to recognize an E-chondrite by eye (10x lens) with 
> the color of the matrix and amount of metal?
>
> Greg S.

Ayeee good question.
Im alvays a little surprized how Moroccans can recognize that chondrite is 
E-type. From my 12 years collecting/dealing practice, I can recognize most 
of types by eye (so Moroccans also can do this ofcourse), except 
E-chondrites. For me they are typical OC impossible to recognize without lab 
tests, especially when specimen is complete. Thats why I never bought 
possible e-type chondrite from Morocco.

Anyone have any hints for us ? :D


-----[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-----[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]-----
http://www.Meteoryty.pl             marcin(at)meteoryty.pl
http://www.PolandMET.com       marcin(at)polandmet.com
http://www.Gao-Guenie.com      GSM: +48 (793) 567667
--------[ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society ]--------



From starsandscopes at aol.com  Mon Dec 21 13:03:55 2009
From: starsandscopes at aol.com (starsandscopes at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 13:03:55 EST
Subject: [meteorite-list] E-chondrites
Message-ID: <11a3c.3602193a.3861128b@aol.com>



I noticed that with the heavily weathered  examples they develop a yellow 
sulfur looking powder in spots.  The OC's  tend to have a little more orange 
"rust" color.

I'm not saying this is an  accurate indicator but rather, I am wondering if 
others have noticed this as  well.

Tom

In a message dated 12/21/2009 10:42:38 A.M. Mountain  Standard Time, 
marcin at meteoryt.net writes:
> List:
>
> I have  a question regarding E-chondrites. I was told that Enstatite 
> Chondrites  have a more gray (dark) matrix than an ordinary chondrite. 
They 
> also  contain more metal (as a rule) than a typical H-chondrite. Now I 
> always  thought it was impossible to recognize an E-chondrite by eye. 
> However,  is it possible to recognize an E-chondrite by eye (10x lens) 
with 
> the  color of the matrix and amount of metal?
>
> Greg S.

Ayeee  good question.
Im alvays a little surprized how Moroccans can recognize that  chondrite is 
E-type. From my 12 years collecting/dealing practice, I can  recognize most 
of types by eye (so Moroccans also can do this ofcourse),  except 
E-chondrites. For me they are typical OC impossible to recognize  without 
lab 
tests, especially when specimen is complete. Thats why I never  bought 
possible e-type chondrite from Morocco.

Anyone have any hints  for us ? :D


-----[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-----[ I.M.C.A.#3667  ]-----
http://www.Meteoryty.pl              marcin(at)meteoryty.pl
http://www.PolandMET.com        marcin(at)polandmet.com
http://www.Gao-Guenie.com       GSM: +48 (793) 567667
--------[ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society  ]--------

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Meteorite-list  mailing  list
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From oxytropidoceras at cox.net  Mon Dec 21 14:13:35 2009
From: oxytropidoceras at cox.net (Paul H.)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 13:13:35 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] =?utf-8?q?Dukin=E2=80=99_out_the_Younger_Dryas_B?=
	=?utf-8?q?oundary?=
Message-ID: <20091221141335.9ZDH7.283294.imail@eastrmwml31>

Dukin? out the Younger Dryas Boundary

http://www.agu.org/blog/fm09/?p=77

Other AGU 2009 Meeting Blogs

http://www.agu.org/blog/fm09/

List of Science Blogs Covering 2009 AGU Fall Meeting

http://www.agu.org/meetings/fm09/newsmedia/blogroll.php

Yours,

Paul H.


From countdeiro at earthlink.net  Mon Dec 21 14:26:05 2009
From: countdeiro at earthlink.net (countdeiro at earthlink.net)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 14:26:05 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Students assigned to find Apollo Moon Rocks.
Message-ID: <20246450.1261423566051.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net>


Hello List,

UNLV (University of Nevada at Las Vegas, aka "Basketball U") released this information to the local press today. 


http://www.lvrj.com/news/instructor-assigns-students-to-find-moon-rocks-from-apollo-missions-79787137.html

Enjoy,

Count Deiro


From mlblood at cox.net  Mon Dec 21 14:49:39 2009
From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael Blood)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 11:49:39 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] =?iso-8859-1?q?J=FCrgen_Nauber?=
In-Reply-To: <20091221141335.9ZDH7.283294.imail@eastrmwml31>
Message-ID: <C7551153.A086%mlblood@cox.net>

Yo, J?rgen Nauber,
        Can you contact me, please (off list).
        Thanks, Michael




From azizhabibi at yahoo.com  Mon Dec 21 16:04:57 2009
From: azizhabibi at yahoo.com (habibi abdelaziz)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 13:04:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] how the gamble on stone is big
Message-ID: <716324.9130.qm@web62006.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

hi
well as to talk about gambling in stone to find by the time stones that has crust and fine crust typycal to hed,

look at this you will understand that i have to decide in a segond to buy it or not and i did bought and cut it and
see the result
http://www.flickr.com/photos/azizhabibi/

aziz habibi
?habibi aziz 
box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco 
phone. 21235576145 
fax.21235576170</font> 


      


From jgrossman at usgs.gov  Mon Dec 21 17:01:16 2009
From: jgrossman at usgs.gov (Jeff Grossman)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 17:01:16 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] E-chondrites
In-Reply-To: <SNT117-W82DB8061B976E3B5DDCA5D2820@phx.gbl>
References: <SNT117-W82DB8061B976E3B5DDCA5D2820@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4B2FF02C.4010607@usgs.gov>

E chondrites have virtually no matrix. Most of the material between 
chondrules and chondrule fragments is metal and sulfides.

jeff

On 2009-12-21 12:02 PM, Greg Stanley wrote:
> List:
>
> I have a question regarding E-chondrites.  I was told that Enstatite Chondrites have a more gray (dark) matrix than an ordinary chondrite.  They also contain more metal (as a rule) than a typical H-chondrite. Now I always thought it was impossible to recognize an E-chondrite by eye. However, is it possible to recognize an E-chondrite by eye (10x lens) with the color of the matrix and amount of metal? 
>
> Greg S.
>   		 	   		
> _________________________________________________________________
> Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222986/direct/01/
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>    


-- 
Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman       phone: (703) 648-6184
US Geological Survey          fax:   (703) 648-6383
954 National Center
Reston, VA 20192, USA




From lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu  Mon Dec 21 18:12:05 2009
From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu (lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 16:12:05 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [meteorite-list]
 =?iso-8859-1?q?Dukin=E2=80=99_out_the_Younger_Dr?=
 =?iso-8859-1?q?yas_Boundary?=
In-Reply-To: <20091221141335.9ZDH7.283294.imail@eastrmwml31>
References: <20091221141335.9ZDH7.283294.imail@eastrmwml31>
Message-ID: <22a3175e10b03ede0536a7be5acc3024.squirrel@webmail.lpl.arizona.edu>

Sorry, can'tg type"

500 to 600 people in the room.

Larry

> Dukin??? out the Younger Dryas Boundary
>
> http://www.agu.org/blog/fm09/?p=77
>
> Other AGU 2009 Meeting Blogs
>
> http://www.agu.org/blog/fm09/
>
> List of Science Blogs Covering 2009 AGU Fall Meeting
>
> http://www.agu.org/meetings/fm09/newsmedia/blogroll.php
>
> Yours,
>
> Paul H.
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>




From lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu  Mon Dec 21 18:09:54 2009
From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu (lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 16:09:54 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [meteorite-list]
 =?iso-8859-1?q?Dukin=E2=80=99_out_the_Younger_Dr?=
 =?iso-8859-1?q?yas_Boundary?=
In-Reply-To: <20091221141335.9ZDH7.283294.imail@eastrmwml31>
References: <20091221141335.9ZDH7.283294.imail@eastrmwml31>
Message-ID: <dcfa9a511040860f1161f5506c39427f.squirrel@webmail.lpl.arizona.edu>

Hi Everyone:

I just came back from our weekly "Asteroid Lunch" where I presented this
session!

Dukin' it out summarizes the session perfectly. There were somewhere
between 500 and 800 people in a room with 400 seats (I counted).

The talks literally went (with respect to being an impact event: "no it
isn't," "yes it is," "no it isn't," yes it is"....

What it really comes down to is the fact that nanodiamonds are found in
North America, Europe, and the Sudan (deposited about 12,900 years ago).
Nanodiamonds are found in meteorites. However, nanodiamonds have not been
shown to form during impact events (microdiamonds are). So, the question
really comes down to where they came from and how they formed.

I think that this summarizes the talks in one paragraph.

Oh, megafauna were dying out prior to 12,900 years ago and any widespead
fires predated the Younger Dryas "event."

Larry

> Dukin??? out the Younger Dryas Boundary
>
> http://www.agu.org/blog/fm09/?p=77
>
> Other AGU 2009 Meeting Blogs
>
> http://www.agu.org/blog/fm09/
>
> List of Science Blogs Covering 2009 AGU Fall Meeting
>
> http://www.agu.org/meetings/fm09/newsmedia/blogroll.php
>
> Yours,
>
> Paul H.
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>




From ROBERT.D.MATSON at saic.com  Mon Dec 21 18:11:20 2009
From: ROBERT.D.MATSON at saic.com (Matson, Robert D.)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 15:11:20 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Recognizing E-chondrites
In-Reply-To: <4B2FF02C.4010607@usgs.gov>
References: <SNT117-W82DB8061B976E3B5DDCA5D2820@phx.gbl>
	<4B2FF02C.4010607@usgs.gov>
Message-ID: <7C640E28081AEE4B952F008D1E913F1702651989@0461-its-exmb04.us.saic.com>

>From the exterior alone, I would have to agree that an E-chondrite is
almost indistinguishable from an O.C.  The one E-chondrite I found in
Nevada looked like a very fresh O.C. -- presumably an H-chondrite based
on the magnetic attraction. Even after cutting a type specimen for
analysis, I was convinced it was a very equilibrated H-chondrite. But
it turned out to be a weathered (W4) EL6 (Roach Dry Lake 030).

So the only anecdotal observational difference that I noted was that
the fusion crust was blacker than that of an ordinary chondrite.

-Rob


From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com  Mon Dec 21 18:46:51 2009
From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 15:46:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Whetstone Mountains Monograph
Message-ID: <965722.59450.qm@web46413.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

I just received my autographed copy of Whetstone Mountains monograph.

I have to say an excellent job was done on this, and I am super pleased to have one.
The documentation is an incredible read that I will certainly take time to read more then once.
The fragment is got even had a nice spot of fusion crust on it!

If you ordered one and have not got it yet, just wait!!!
Thats all Im gonna say. I dont want to spoil it for those that have not seen it in person.

Great job to all involved in this.

Greg C.


      


From darryl at dof3.com  Mon Dec 21 18:51:13 2009
From: darryl at dof3.com (Darryl Pitt)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 18:51:13 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Recognizing E-chondrites
In-Reply-To: <7C640E28081AEE4B952F008D1E913F1702651989@0461-its-exmb04.us.saic.com>
References: <SNT117-W82DB8061B976E3B5DDCA5D2820@phx.gbl>
	<4B2FF02C.4010607@usgs.gov>
	<7C640E28081AEE4B952F008D1E913F1702651989@0461-its-exmb04.us.saic.com>
Message-ID: <683C0561-F81D-4617-9246-211CDD1C0D9C@dof3.com>



Perhaps this is the exception that proves the rule, but I've long  
marveled at the distinctively different crust of the EL6 Hvittis  
(witnessed fall - 10/21/1901); it's an articulated stubble which looks  
much like the surface of the spherical sauropod eggshell from South  
America.    /d



On Dec 21, 2009, at 6:11 PM, Matson, Robert D. wrote:

>> From the exterior alone, I would have to agree that an E-chondrite is
> almost indistinguishable from an O.C.  The one E-chondrite I found in
> Nevada looked like a very fresh O.C. -- presumably an H-chondrite  
> based
> on the magnetic attraction. Even after cutting a type specimen for
> analysis, I was convinced it was a very equilibrated H-chondrite. But
> it turned out to be a weathered (W4) EL6 (Roach Dry Lake 030).
>
> So the only anecdotal observational difference that I noted was that
> the fusion crust was blacker than that of an ordinary chondrite.
>
> -Rob
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From ROBERT.D.MATSON at saic.com  Mon Dec 21 19:01:03 2009
From: ROBERT.D.MATSON at saic.com (Matson, Robert D.)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 16:01:03 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Whetstone Mountains Monograph
In-Reply-To: <965722.59450.qm@web46413.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
References: <965722.59450.qm@web46413.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <7C640E28081AEE4B952F008D1E913F17026519DC@0461-its-exmb04.us.saic.com>

Hi All,

I wholeheartedly concur with Greg -- I received my Whetstone Mountains
monograph
today from Dave, and it is a top-notch job. Excellent
photo-documentation of the
finds, and a terrific value for the small price Dave was asking.
Congrats to all
involved in this story of Arizona's latest fall, and in particular to
Jack Schrader
for the many weeks of legwork and hot-temperature field work in the
(continuing)
recovery of this fall.

Best wishes,
Rob

-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Greg
Catterton
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 3:47 PM
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: [meteorite-list] Whetstone Mountains Monograph

I just received my autographed copy of Whetstone Mountains monograph.

I have to say an excellent job was done on this, and I am super pleased
to have one.
The documentation is an incredible read that I will certainly take time
to read more then once.
The fragment is got even had a nice spot of fusion crust on it!

If you ordered one and have not got it yet, just wait!!!
Thats all Im gonna say. I dont want to spoil it for those that have not
seen it in person.

Great job to all involved in this.

Greg C.


From damoclid at yahoo.com  Mon Dec 21 19:10:25 2009
From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 16:10:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Scalecubes.com
Message-ID: <458181.81284.qm@web113616.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

The mail service was a little slow, taking two weeks for my cubes to arrive, but today arrive they did.
I notice Jeff's site shows these are almost sold out, so I'd like to add my voice to the chorus and recommend that all who are considering purchasing one or more of these fine cubes, do so asap!


--
Richard Kowalski
http://fullmoonphotography.net
IMCA #1081



      


From gmhupe at htn.net  Mon Dec 21 19:18:49 2009
From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 19:18:49 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Scalecubes.com
References: <458181.81284.qm@web113616.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <02CA3343A9744D4892FB92BD43F3A509@Gregor>

Hi Richard all,

I would like to agree with Richard's and other's who have commented of 
Jeff's new scale cubes. I received mine today as well. Very, very nice!

Best regards,
Greg

====================
Greg Hupe
The Hupe Collection
NaturesVault (eBay)
gmhupe at htn.net
www.LunarRock.com
IMCA 3163
====================
Click here for my current eBay auctions: 
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Richard Kowalski" <damoclid at yahoo.com>
To: "meteorite list" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 7:10 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Scalecubes.com


> The mail service was a little slow, taking two weeks for my cubes to 
> arrive, but today arrive they did.
> I notice Jeff's site shows these are almost sold out, so I'd like to add 
> my voice to the chorus and recommend that all who are considering 
> purchasing one or more of these fine cubes, do so asap!
>
>
> --
> Richard Kowalski
> http://fullmoonphotography.net
> IMCA #1081
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 




From lintonius at earthlink.net  Mon Dec 21 20:12:19 2009
From: lintonius at earthlink.net (Linton Rohr)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 17:12:19 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Whetstone Mountains Monograph
References: <965722.59450.qm@web46413.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <D57B8FB99034426A8005B2B3DED6B2AF@D190TH71>

Mine arrived today, as well.
Very nicely done, Dave. I'm looking forward to sitting back and reading 
this.
Congratulations again to Jack and all others involved.
Linton

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Greg Catterton" <star_wars_collector at yahoo.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 3:46 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Whetstone Mountains Monograph


>I just received my autographed copy of Whetstone Mountains monograph.
>
> I have to say an excellent job was done on this, and I am super pleased to 
> have one.
> The documentation is an incredible read that I will certainly take time to 
> read more then once.
> The fragment is got even had a nice spot of fusion crust on it!
>
> If you ordered one and have not got it yet, just wait!!!
> Thats all Im gonna say. I dont want to spoil it for those that have not 
> seen it in person.
>
> Great job to all involved in this.
>
> Greg C.
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 



From meteoritefinder at gmail.com  Mon Dec 21 20:20:39 2009
From: meteoritefinder at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 18:20:39 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Contact info for aid mohamed
Message-ID: <468bf6050912211720m1e3a777cx3024e655713204a4@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all I am trying to get in touch with Aid Mohamed does anyone have his email?

-- 
Mike Miller 230 Greenway Dr. Kingman Az 86401
www.meteoritefinder.com
     928-753-6825


From larrytwinkmonrad at comcast.net  Mon Dec 21 21:05:13 2009
From: larrytwinkmonrad at comcast.net (Larry & Twink Monrad)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 19:05:13 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: Recognizing E-chondrites
Message-ID: <7324DAD499CA4425A02286E7F3C20A71@DFZN8X81>


Bernd asked me to post this to the list.
Twink Monrad

 Hi Greg S., Jeff Gr., Rob M., and List,

 Hard to tell in hand sample if a cut slice or an individual is an E 
chondrite
 but if the suspect is an EH3 / EL3 or an EH4 / EL4 with clearly discernible
 chondrules and if it is not too severely weathered, its chondrules will 
look
 grayish-white (= enstatite). But this may also be true of Kakangari 
chondrites
 (and quite a few others) although the chance to own/find a K-chondrite is
 extremely remote.

 Relatively weathered E-chondrites like Dean Bessey's NWA 305* (W3) may be
 a challenge in hand sample because its chondrules (and matrix . what little 
matrix
 there is) look colorful but it is relatively easy when you look at thin 
sections of such
 E-chondrites under a microscope in cross-polarized light: they look a 
little bit . well,
 boring because they consist almost exclusively of enstatite and enstatite 
(orthopyroxene)
 looks grayish-white. No beautiful, colorful interference colors, . just 
grayish-white
 chondrules and mineral debris.

 I also have thin sections of  Abee (EH4), Eagle (EL6) but, . same story. 
Not very spectacular,
 not very colorful in cross-polarized light. Of course, "not very 
spectacular" does not refer to their
 scientific importance but only to their aesthetic beauty, and, beauty, we 
all know, lies in the eyes
 of the beholder(s).

 * I've uploaded a picture of my NWA 305 endcut and another of my NWA 305 
thin section
 in cross-polarized light so that you should be able to view them by 
tomorrow (if interested) in
 the online Encyclopedia of the Met.Bull.


 Season's greetings,

 Bernd



From countdeiro at earthlink.net  Mon Dec 21 21:10:35 2009
From: countdeiro at earthlink.net (countdeiro at earthlink.net)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 21:10:35 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Mystery Nevada Find?
Message-ID: <11554945.1261447835933.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Listees,

Sonny Clary sliced a piece off this found desert specimen and mentioned that I might want to let the List look at the remainder,in hopes I will get some opinions. It is slightly heavier than similar terrestial rocks, makes a dark streak, is attracted lightly to a neomydium mag, enough to support the missing 30 gram slice. Carbonaceous condrite? Meteor wrong? What say you?

Incidentally, that's one of Joe's titanium scale cubes. As you can see, they are a very dark grey and very sharp edges and very heavy.

http://members.cox.net/countdeiro/PC210229.JPG

Thanks for looking,

Count Deiro


From mrmeteorite at gmail.com  Mon Dec 21 21:46:10 2009
From: mrmeteorite at gmail.com (Ruben Garcia)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 19:46:10 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Mystery Nevada Find?
In-Reply-To: <11554945.1261447835933.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <11554945.1261447835933.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <80659e1a0912211846v2fda9fai66ece7b1d831f6dc@mail.gmail.com>

I like the shape of the stone and the small rust spots on the
exterior. The geometric shapes (squarish or rectangular shapes)  of
the inclusions worry me - as that does not occur much, if at all in
meteorites. I would have to hold it in my hand to say anymore. Cool
though...



-- 
Rock On!

Ruben Garcia

Website: http://www.mr-meteorite.net
Articles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/
Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=meteorfright#p/u


From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com  Mon Dec 21 21:55:27 2009
From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 18:55:27 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Whetstone Mountains Monograph
Message-ID: <COL108-W31039E2DF35E1079CCA5D9B810@phx.gbl>



Got mine today as well. #64/97. *Sniff* It's beautiful! Thank you, very nicely done!!

Carl



>
> I just received my autographed copy of Whetstone Mountains monograph.
>
> I have to say an excellent job was done on this, and I am super pleased to have one.
> The documentation is an incredible read that I will certainly take time to read more then once.
> The fragment is got even had a nice spot of fusion crust on it!
>
> If you ordered one and have not got it yet, just wait!!!
> Thats all Im gonna say. I dont want to spoil it for those that have not seen it in person.
>
> Great job to all involved in this.
>
> Greg C.
>



 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222984/direct/01/

From scientificlifestyle at hotmail.com  Mon Dec 21 22:25:13 2009
From: scientificlifestyle at hotmail.com (Pat Brown)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 19:25:13 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Mystery Nevada Find?
In-Reply-To: <11554945.1261447835933.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <11554945.1261447835933.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <BLU117-W7BC8CBBFFA43F7D082A0EBD810@phx.gbl>


Hello to the List, 

This cut surface also shows small vesicles that make one wonder if it is one of the few meteorites that have vesicles. 

I would certainly have picked it up and submit for closer inspection. 

Sonny is very experienced and has made some spectacular finds, I hope this one turns out to be another rare type. 

Best Regards, 
? ? ? ? ?? Pat? 

----------------------------------------
> Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 21:10:35 -0500
> From: countdeiro at earthlink.net
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Mystery Nevada Find?
>
> Listees,
>
> Sonny Clary sliced a piece off this found desert specimen and mentioned that I might want to let the List look at the remainder,in hopes I will get some opinions. It is slightly heavier than similar terrestial rocks, makes a dark streak, is attracted lightly to a neomydium mag, enough to support the missing 30 gram slice. Carbonaceous condrite? Meteor wrong? What say you?
>
> Incidentally, that's one of Joe's titanium scale cubes. As you can see, they are a very dark grey and very sharp edges and very heavy.
>
> http://members.cox.net/countdeiro/PC210229.JPG
>
> Thanks for looking,
>
> Count Deiro
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222985/direct/01/

From ROBERT.D.MATSON at saic.com  Mon Dec 21 22:25:57 2009
From: ROBERT.D.MATSON at saic.com (Matson, Robert D.)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 19:25:57 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] SE Nebraska bolide on night of December 16th (17
	December, UT)
In-Reply-To: <458181.81284.qm@web113616.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <458181.81284.qm@web113616.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <7C640E28081AEE4B952F008D1E913F1702651A38@0461-its-exmb04.us.saic.com>

Hi All,

If anyone is interested in possibly chasing down the December 16th
fireball over southeast Nebraska, I have identified a promising set
of radar returns that may be due to this fall.  For those familiar
with archive NexRad data, check the images from KOAX (Omaha, NE) at
3:14:48 UT starting with the third elevation sweep: 95.7287 W, 40.2469
N,
altitude 4.5 km.  It's also visible in the 4th, 5th and 6th sweeps for
that time.  KTWX also shows it at 3:14:39 on passes 3 and 4.  If
anyone wants images superimposed on a map, I can provide them. The
general direction of motion appears to be WSW to ENE.  --Rob


From mrmeteorite at gmail.com  Mon Dec 21 22:41:45 2009
From: mrmeteorite at gmail.com (Ruben Garcia)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 20:41:45 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Whetstone Mountains Monograph
In-Reply-To: <COL108-W31039E2DF35E1079CCA5D9B810@phx.gbl>
References: <COL108-W31039E2DF35E1079CCA5D9B810@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <80659e1a0912211941m22411e05r1c256ce9c1f0921d@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

While I didn't purchase the monograph (my loss) I did spend two weeks
in the area hunting. If anyone is interested in looking at where "I
THINK STREWN FIELD IS LOCATED" - look here.

I am pretty sure my ellipse covers at least part of the strewn field.

http://www.mr-meteorite.net/whetstonestrewnfield.htm

Comments?


Rock On!

Ruben Garcia

Website: http://www.mr-meteorite.net
Articles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/
Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=meteorfright#p/u


From skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com  Mon Dec 21 23:45:40 2009
From: skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com (Joe Kerchner)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 20:45:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: 250 gram lot,
	"Illinois meteorwrong". No more available til at least spring
In-Reply-To: <BLU117-W7BC8CBBFFA43F7D082A0EBD810@phx.gbl>
References: <11554945.1261447835933.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<BLU117-W7BC8CBBFFA43F7D082A0EBD810@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <946170.22948.qm@web43413.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

I have a 240-250 gram lot of this material for sale, it is the very last of what I have for sale. 
I will not have anymore of this until spring if I am lucky enough to find more. 
The lot is many cut and polishes pieces, slices, end cuts, windowed individual, complete individual. Some are over 30 grams a couple over 20 grams, several between 5-10. a several between 10-20. Some of these pieces are the only piece that I have offered for sale of certain matrixes.
 I have a couple lithogies that look superb but only found a single small stone, I kept most of them, but they all have a piece in this lot. This lot has a lot of smaller pieces but very nice pieces, even the smallest piece mhas a great viewing surface. I will send photos of the lot if you requested, haven't taken any yet.

I will sell this lot for $175

If you are interested in this contact me through email, OFF-LIST It will go to the first email I recieve.
Happy Holidays and God Bless........

Best Wishes,
Joe Kerchner



----- Original Message ----
From: Pat Brown <scientificlifestyle at hotmail.com>
To: countdeiro at earthlink.net; Met List <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Mon, December 21, 2009 9:25:13 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mystery Nevada Find?


Hello to the List, 

This cut surface also shows small vesicles that make one wonder if it is one of the few meteorites that have vesicles. 

I would certainly have picked it up and submit for closer inspection. 

Sonny is very experienced and has made some spectacular finds, I hope this one turns out to be another rare type. 

Best Regards, 
           Pat  

----------------------------------------
> Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 21:10:35 -0500
> From: countdeiro at earthlink.net
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Mystery Nevada Find?
>
> Listees,
>
> Sonny Clary sliced a piece off this found desert specimen and mentioned that I might want to let the List look at the remainder,in hopes I will get some opinions. It is slightly heavier than similar terrestial rocks, makes a dark streak, is attracted lightly to a neomydium mag, enough to support the missing 30 gram slice. Carbonaceous condrite? Meteor wrong? What say you?
>
> Incidentally, that's one of Joe's titanium scale cubes. As you can see, they are a very dark grey and very sharp edges and very heavy.
>
> http://members.cox.net/countdeiro/PC210229.JPG
>
> Thanks for looking,
>
> Count Deiro
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
                          
_________________________________________________________________
Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222985/direct/01/
______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



      



From parkforestmet at hotmail.com  Tue Dec 22 01:24:21 2009
From: parkforestmet at hotmail.com (bill kies)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 00:24:21 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] The Desert Speaks - Bob Haag
Message-ID: <SNT102-W5090F90B0C1B974492A236A2810@phx.gbl>


The Desert Speaks Episode: Desert Treasures (First Aired: June 10, 2006) 
A hunt for fish fossils in the Red Desert of Wyoming; Painted Desert; meteorite collector Robert Haag.

More Episodes, News, Recaps, Cast Info, Reviews...1:30 - 2:00 AM Central Time WYCCDT (20.1) 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141665/direct/01/

From scientificlifestyle at hotmail.com  Tue Dec 22 01:27:44 2009
From: scientificlifestyle at hotmail.com (Pat Brown)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 22:27:44 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Scalecubes.com
In-Reply-To: <458181.81284.qm@web113616.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <458181.81284.qm@web113616.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BLU117-W2796171DF5C994AA8DC7E0BD810@phx.gbl>


Hello to the List, 

'Just received my scale cube today as well. This is a very impressive bit of work!

The markings are very crisp. 

This makes my desert meteorite hunting withdrawals even worse.....

Pining for the Playa, 
?????????????????? Pat 

----------------------------------------
> Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 16:10:25 -0800
> From: damoclid at yahoo.com
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Scalecubes.com
>
> The mail service was a little slow, taking two weeks for my cubes to arrive, but today arrive they did.
> I notice Jeff's site shows these are almost sold out, so I'd like to add my voice to the chorus and recommend that all who are considering purchasing one or more of these fine cubes, do so asap!
>
>
> --
> Richard Kowalski
> http://fullmoonphotography.net
> IMCA #1081
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222985/direct/01/

From starsandscopes at aol.com  Tue Dec 22 01:34:26 2009
From: starsandscopes at aol.com (starsandscopes at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 01:34:26 EST
Subject: [meteorite-list] Scalecubes.com
Message-ID: <10dac.4d6f210b.3861c272@aol.com>



Me to,  Mine came in the mail today as  well.

A measure of it's "Cool Factor" is how long it takes me to put it  on a 
microscope (My personal highest form of compliment)  The shots are  just taken 
through a stereo scope but it nicely shows off the crisp  detail.

Very nice Jeff!  Well done!  This will be the last  scale cube I will ever 
need.

Email me for some shots of the  cube!

Tom

In a message dated 12/21/2009 11:28:10 P.M. Mountain  Standard Time, 
scientificlifestyle at hotmail.com writes:

Hello to the List,  

'Just received my scale cube today as well. This is a very impressive  bit 
of work!

The markings are very crisp. 

This makes my desert  meteorite hunting withdrawals even worse.....

Pining for the Playa,  
Pat 

----------------------------------------
> Date: Mon, 21 Dec  2009 16:10:25 -0800
> From: damoclid at yahoo.com
> To:  meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list]  Scalecubes.com
>
> The mail service was a little slow, taking two  weeks for my cubes to 
arrive, but today arrive they did.
> I notice Jeff's  site shows these are almost sold out, so I'd like to add 
my voice to the chorus  and recommend that all who are considering 
purchasing one or more of these fine  cubes, do so asap!
>
>
> --
> Richard Kowalski
>  http://fullmoonphotography.net
> IMCA  #1081
>
>
>
>
>  ______________________________________________
>  http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
>  Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>  http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

_________________________________________________________________
Your  E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail  Free.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222985/direct/01/
______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list  mailing  list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list   



From minador at yahoo.com  Tue Dec 22 11:15:02 2009
From: minador at yahoo.com (Mark Bowling)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 08:15:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] fireball over Southern AZ
Message-ID: <140530.31935.qm@web54502.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Hey all,

My cousin sent me a message in Facebook this morning (see below).  Has anybody else seen this or any reported sightings?  Surely there were a lot of folks out shopping or enjoying the evening...

Mark B.
Vail, AZ


"the other night about 6pm heading back to tucson i was in eloy and saw a falling star, being cloudy it made the clouds glow for a bit and the tail sparkled. it had to land near the tortillitas or in catalina but it made a boom sound i had my window down. it was the coolest i ever seen and i seen many out on the road."


From lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu  Tue Dec 22 11:24:00 2009
From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu (lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 09:24:00 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] fireball over Southern AZ
In-Reply-To: <140530.31935.qm@web54502.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <140530.31935.qm@web54502.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <7ec3ead3ac008aabaa36d0a58da81ca0.squirrel@webmail.lpl.arizona.edu>

Saw nothing from Tucson, but have not spent much time outside since it has
been cloudy and (relatively) cold (at least for those of us in Tucson, and
waiting to get all of the responses from places that are really cold).

Larry

> Hey all,
>
> My cousin sent me a message in Facebook this morning (see below).  Has
> anybody else seen this or any reported sightings?  Surely there were a lot
> of folks out shopping or enjoying the evening...
>
> Mark B.
> Vail, AZ
>
>
> "the other night about 6pm heading back to tucson i was in eloy and saw a
> falling star, being cloudy it made the clouds glow for a bit and the tail
> sparkled. it had to land near the tortillitas or in catalina but it made a
> boom sound i had my window down. it was the coolest i ever seen and i seen
> many out on the road."
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>




From gracie at sheverb.com  Tue Dec 22 11:50:41 2009
From: gracie at sheverb.com (gracie)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 11:50:41 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] fireball over Southern AZ
In-Reply-To: <140530.31935.qm@web54502.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <140530.31935.qm@web54502.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5762.64.88.170.40.1261500641.squirrel@sheverb.com>

Mark,

My husband saw one over Florida on the 15th. Unfortunately, I never ran
across anyone else who saw it.

You might want to check the AMS Fireball Sightings Log over the next
couple of days or weeks to see if anything gets reported.

http://www.amsmeteors.org/fireball/fireball_log2009.html

Your cousin should log his sighting as well. (I logged my husband's
sighting for him.)

Gracie



> Hey all,
>
> My cousin sent me a message in Facebook this morning (see below).  Has
> anybody else seen this or any reported sightings?  Surely there were a lot
> of folks out shopping or enjoying the evening...
>
> Mark B.
> Vail, AZ
>
>
> "the other night about 6pm heading back to tucson i was in eloy and saw a
> falling star, being cloudy it made the clouds glow for a bit and the tail
> sparkled. it had to land near the tortillitas or in catalina but it made a
> boom sound i had my window down. it was the coolest i ever seen and i seen
> many out on the road."
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>




From minador at yahoo.com  Tue Dec 22 11:59:23 2009
From: minador at yahoo.com (Mark Bowling)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 08:59:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] fireball over Southern AZ
In-Reply-To: <5762.64.88.170.40.1261500641.squirrel@sheverb.com>
Message-ID: <935189.29935.qm@web54503.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I'll get him to do that Gracie, or get his feedback and log it myself.  Thanks, I couldn't remember that site.  I saw a small bolide at the end of the Geminid shower.  It was short and at an odd angle, like it was going away from me.

Clear skies all & Merry Christmas/Happy Hanukkah/Happy Festivus
Mark


--- On Tue, 12/22/09, gracie <gracie at sheverb.com> wrote:

> From: gracie <gracie at sheverb.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] fireball over Southern AZ
> To: "Mark Bowling" <minador at yahoo.com>
> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Tuesday, December 22, 2009, 9:50 AM
> Mark,
> 
> My husband saw one over Florida on the 15th. Unfortunately,
> I never ran
> across anyone else who saw it.
> 
> You might want to check the AMS Fireball Sightings Log over
> the next
> couple of days or weeks to see if anything gets reported.
> 
> http://www.amsmeteors.org/fireball/fireball_log2009.html
> 
> Your cousin should log his sighting as well. (I logged my
> husband's
> sighting for him.)
> 
> Gracie
> 
> 
> 
> > Hey all,
> >
> > My cousin sent me a message in Facebook this morning
> (see below).? Has
> > anybody else seen this or any reported
> sightings?? Surely there were a lot
> > of folks out shopping or enjoying the evening...
> >
> > Mark B.
> > Vail, AZ
> >
> >
> > "the other night about 6pm heading back to tucson i
> was in eloy and saw a
> > falling star, being cloudy it made the clouds glow for
> a bit and the tail
> > sparkled. it had to land near the tortillitas or in
> catalina but it made a
> > boom sound i had my window down. it was the coolest i
> ever seen and i seen
> > many out on the road."
> > ______________________________________________
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


From minador at yahoo.com  Tue Dec 22 12:02:49 2009
From: minador at yahoo.com (Mark Bowling)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 09:02:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] fireball over Southern AZ
In-Reply-To: <7ec3ead3ac008aabaa36d0a58da81ca0.squirrel@webmail.lpl.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <431454.23608.qm@web54505.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Hey Larry,
I once moved from Tucson to Elko, till I found out that the alternate spelling of Elko was COLD...

I'll get it reported as Gracie suggested.  I'm hoping that some shoppers saw it.  The malls and stores are quite active at that time.
Mark

--- On Tue, 12/22/09, lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu <lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu> wrote:

> From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu <lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] fireball over Southern AZ
> To: "Mark Bowling" <minador at yahoo.com>
> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Tuesday, December 22, 2009, 9:24 AM
> Saw nothing from Tucson, but have not
> spent much time outside since it has
> been cloudy and (relatively) cold (at least for those of us
> in Tucson, and
> waiting to get all of the responses from places that are
> really cold).
> 
> Larry
> 
> > Hey all,
> >
> > My cousin sent me a message in Facebook this morning
> (see below).? Has
> > anybody else seen this or any reported
> sightings?? Surely there were a lot
> > of folks out shopping or enjoying the evening...
> >
> > Mark B.
> > Vail, AZ
> >
> >
> > "the other night about 6pm heading back to tucson i
> was in eloy and saw a
> > falling star, being cloudy it made the clouds glow for
> a bit and the tail
> > sparkled. it had to land near the tortillitas or in
> catalina but it made a
> > boom sound i had my window down. it was the coolest i
> ever seen and i seen
> > many out on the road."
> > ______________________________________________
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


From epgrondine at yahoo.com  Tue Dec 22 12:13:28 2009
From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 09:13:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Duking it out at the AGU
Message-ID: <430168.86596.qm@web36903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi - 

While the banks of a river that floods are not a good place to get reliably dated mega-fauna DNA samples:

http://www.canada.com/technology/MAMMOTH+DISCOVERY/2340164/story.html

There is little doubt that man was hunting mega-fauna when he arrived in the Americas, say about 45,000 BCE. And there can be little doubt that Clovis technology greatly increased the efficiency of that hunting. 

We're still left with the problem of sudden quarry abandonment, and a sudden drop in mega-fauna populations. Also with the problem of the causes of some of the First Peoples' memories of comet impact.

The question of the effects of any impacts on the draining of Lake Agassiz have not been examined yet.

The lack of funding for those researching this is appaling.

Anyone who would like a copy of the cast of the Trempealeau Petroglyph can contact me off list. While it appears to show cometary impact, unfortunately since the site was lost we do not know if it was from the YD impacts, or the Rio Cuarto impacts, or another set of impacts.

E.P. Grondine
Man and Impact in the Americas




      


From fuzzfoot at comcast.net  Tue Dec 22 13:41:52 2009
From: fuzzfoot at comcast.net (Mike Bandli)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 10:41:52 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Grimsby Classified H5
Message-ID: <09C9F5AF2A8A45968FDF33DAFE8B2DBF@Bandli1>

It is official:

http://tinyurl.com/yg8ny9g

-----------------------------------
Mike Bandli
Historic Meteorites
www.HistoricMeteorites.com
IMCA?#5765
-----------------------------------




From fuzzfoot at comcast.net  Tue Dec 22 13:50:50 2009
From: fuzzfoot at comcast.net (Mike Bandli)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 10:50:50 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Paris, France CM Meteorite
Message-ID: <A58BE0895CB44636A2C7FA4EDB996978@Bandli1>

An interesting read for the Paris CM meteorite:

http://tinyurl.com/y9s6wge

Interestingly, I believe it is the first meteorite officially classified
with no locality.

-----------------------------------
Mike Bandli
Historic Meteorites
www.HistoricMeteorites.com
IMCA?#5765
-----------------------------------





From lintonius at earthlink.net  Tue Dec 22 15:00:02 2009
From: lintonius at earthlink.net (Linton Rohr)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 12:00:02 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Grimsby Classified H5
References: <09C9F5AF2A8A45968FDF33DAFE8B2DBF@Bandli1>
Message-ID: <E0ECD3FF187A438CBF0BD3C2EE9EA898@D190TH71>

Cool. Thanks Mike.
So it's still a relatively low TKW, at 215g (I've always assumed "Mass" and 
TKW to be equivalent).
One thing I don't understand, though. How can Michael Farmer be listed as 
the main mass holder already, with the Canadian export permit requirements? 
( Not that I mind.) Has it been long enough already for an export permit to 
be issued? Or is the Met Bull just assuming that it will be eventually? It's 
only been a couple months. I'm just thinking of the export delay with 
Buzzard Coulee, which I'd love to see available in Tucson, by the way.
Linton


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mike Bandli" <fuzzfoot at comcast.net>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 10:41 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Grimsby Classified H5


It is official:

http://tinyurl.com/yg8ny9g

-----------------------------------
Mike Bandli
Historic Meteorites
www.HistoricMeteorites.com
IMCA #5765
-----------------------------------


______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From tbear1 at cableone.net  Tue Dec 22 15:23:58 2009
From: tbear1 at cableone.net (Ted Bunch)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 13:23:58 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Paris, France CM Meteorite
In-Reply-To: <A58BE0895CB44636A2C7FA4EDB996978@Bandli1>
Message-ID: <C75678EE.FD46%tbear1@cableone.net>

Not really - consider LA001 002, that supposedly came from a California
desert, but not LA.

Ted



On 12/22/09 11:50 AM, "Mike Bandli" <fuzzfoot at comcast.net> wrote:

> An interesting read for the Paris CM meteorite:
> 
> http://tinyurl.com/y9s6wge
> 
> Interestingly, I believe it is the first meteorite officially classified
> with no locality.
> 
> -----------------------------------
> Mike Bandli
> Historic Meteorites
> www.HistoricMeteorites.com
> IMCA?#5765
> -----------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list




From fuzzfoot at comcast.net  Tue Dec 22 15:29:41 2009
From: fuzzfoot at comcast.net (Mike Bandli)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 12:29:41 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Grimsby Classified H5
In-Reply-To: <E0ECD3FF187A438CBF0BD3C2EE9EA898@D190TH71>
References: <09C9F5AF2A8A45968FDF33DAFE8B2DBF@Bandli1>
	<E0ECD3FF187A438CBF0BD3C2EE9EA898@D190TH71>
Message-ID: <777E76092A2D444193FB01559B7A68F5@Bandli1>

Hi Linton,

Though it lists Michael Farmer as the holder, all of the stones, including
ours, are being held in Canada. No export permits will be applied for (that
I know of). With the low total recovered weight, unprecedented recovery
efforts, and it being the most documented fireball in history, we don't see
any scenario of them ever leaving Canada. It is our hope that our stone
eventually finds its way into a Canadian museum or institution.

-----------------------------------
Mike Bandli
Historic Meteorites
www.HistoricMeteorites.com
IMCA?#5765
-----------------------------------------------


-----Original Message-----
From: Linton Rohr [mailto:lintonius at earthlink.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 12:00 PM
To: Mike Bandli
Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Grimsby Classified H5

Cool. Thanks Mike.
So it's still a relatively low TKW, at 215g (I've always assumed "Mass" and 
TKW to be equivalent).
One thing I don't understand, though. How can Michael Farmer be listed as 
the main mass holder already, with the Canadian export permit requirements? 
( Not that I mind.) Has it been long enough already for an export permit to 
be issued? Or is the Met Bull just assuming that it will be eventually? It's

only been a couple months. I'm just thinking of the export delay with 
Buzzard Coulee, which I'd love to see available in Tucson, by the way.
Linton


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mike Bandli" <fuzzfoot at comcast.net>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 10:41 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Grimsby Classified H5


It is official:

http://tinyurl.com/yg8ny9g

-----------------------------------
Mike Bandli
Historic Meteorites
www.HistoricMeteorites.com
IMCA #5765
-----------------------------------


______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list




From stanleygregr at hotmail.com  Tue Dec 22 15:30:35 2009
From: stanleygregr at hotmail.com (Greg Stanley)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 12:30:35 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fall in Canada in 1984-85 near Devon, AB?
In-Reply-To: <E0ECD3FF187A438CBF0BD3C2EE9EA898@D190TH71>
References: <09C9F5AF2A8A45968FDF33DAFE8B2DBF@Bandli1>,
	<E0ECD3FF187A438CBF0BD3C2EE9EA898@D190TH71>
Message-ID: <SNT117-W4459D46FDD33F534AF8F5D2810@phx.gbl>


Hi List:

Wow - that was fast, hope to see it at Tucson.

I have a question regarding a Canadian meteorite fall that a friend of mine witnessed back in 1984 or 85.? It was during a cold evening about 20 miles West of Devon, AB when he and a group of his friends noticed that suddenly it became as bright as day.? Then right above them a red/orange fireball (which sounded like a jet engine) flew eastward.? They watched it fly towards the horizon as pieced broke off.? The next day he read in the Edmonton Sun newspaper that the meteorite struck and damaged a car, I believe owned by a women.

If anyone on the list in Canada or anyone knows what this fall could be, I would like to know.? I have researched it on the bulletin and the web and can't find it.? Being a hammer, I think it would be documented.

Thanks... and happy holidays, and congratulations to Mike Farmer for his Grimsby find.

Greg S.

----------------------------------------
> From: lintonius at earthlink.net
> To: fuzzfoot at comcast.net
> Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 12:00:02 -0800
> CC: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Grimsby Classified H5
>
> Cool. Thanks Mike.
> So it's still a relatively low TKW, at 215g (I've always assumed "Mass" and
> TKW to be equivalent).
> One thing I don't understand, though. How can Michael Farmer be listed as
> the main mass holder already, with the Canadian export permit requirements?
> ( Not that I mind.) Has it been long enough already for an export permit to
> be issued? Or is the Met Bull just assuming that it will be eventually? It's
> only been a couple months. I'm just thinking of the export delay with
> Buzzard Coulee, which I'd love to see available in Tucson, by the way.
> Linton
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike Bandli" 
> To: 
> Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 10:41 AM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Grimsby Classified H5
>
>
> It is official:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/yg8ny9g
>
> -----------------------------------
> Mike Bandli
> Historic Meteorites
> www.HistoricMeteorites.com
> IMCA #5765
> -----------------------------------
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222986/direct/01/

From roxfromspace at gmail.com  Tue Dec 22 15:46:53 2009
From: roxfromspace at gmail.com (Phil Morgan)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 13:46:53 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Paris, France CM Meteorite
In-Reply-To: <C75678EE.FD46%tbear1@cableone.net>
References: <A58BE0895CB44636A2C7FA4EDB996978@Bandli1>
	<C75678EE.FD46%tbear1@cableone.net>
Message-ID: <70baf8d20912221246q7d368678ld4b44f8697bea9b5@mail.gmail.com>

And other like Lafayette are quite vague as well.  But are there
others that don't even have a home country?

Phil

On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 1:23 PM, Ted Bunch <tbear1 at cableone.net> wrote:
> Not really - consider LA001 002, that supposedly came from a California
> desert, but not LA.
>
> Ted
>
>
>
> On 12/22/09 11:50 AM, "Mike Bandli" <fuzzfoot at comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> An interesting read for the Paris CM meteorite:
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/y9s6wge
>>
>> Interestingly, I believe it is the first meteorite officially classified
>> with no locality.
>>
>> -----------------------------------
>> Mike Bandli
>> Historic Meteorites
>> www.HistoricMeteorites.com
>> IMCA?#5765
>> -----------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


From lintonius at earthlink.net  Tue Dec 22 15:52:55 2009
From: lintonius at earthlink.net (Linton Rohr)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 12:52:55 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Grimsby Classified H5
References: <09C9F5AF2A8A45968FDF33DAFE8B2DBF@Bandli1>
	<E0ECD3FF187A438CBF0BD3C2EE9EA898@D190TH71>
	<777E76092A2D444193FB01559B7A68F5@Bandli1>
Message-ID: <CB34F1F7E38E44B1AEBB9D5DCC8F037F@D190TH71>

Ah. Thanks for the enlightenment, Mike. That's quite commendable.
I would like to think more will be found, but the prospects don't look good, 
considering the effort that's already been made.
Linton

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mike Bandli" <fuzzfoot at comcast.net>
To: "'Linton Rohr'" <lintonius at earthlink.net>
Cc: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 12:29 PM
Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Grimsby Classified H5


Hi Linton,

Though it lists Michael Farmer as the holder, all of the stones, including
ours, are being held in Canada. No export permits will be applied for (that
I know of). With the low total recovered weight, unprecedented recovery
efforts, and it being the most documented fireball in history, we don't see
any scenario of them ever leaving Canada. It is our hope that our stone
eventually finds its way into a Canadian museum or institution.

-----------------------------------
Mike Bandli
Historic Meteorites
www.HistoricMeteorites.com
IMCA #5765
-----------------------------------------------


-----Original Message-----
From: Linton Rohr [mailto:lintonius at earthlink.net]
Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 12:00 PM
To: Mike Bandli
Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Grimsby Classified H5

Cool. Thanks Mike.
So it's still a relatively low TKW, at 215g (I've always assumed "Mass" and
TKW to be equivalent).
One thing I don't understand, though. How can Michael Farmer be listed as
the main mass holder already, with the Canadian export permit requirements?
( Not that I mind.) Has it been long enough already for an export permit to
be issued? Or is the Met Bull just assuming that it will be eventually? It's

only been a couple months. I'm just thinking of the export delay with
Buzzard Coulee, which I'd love to see available in Tucson, by the way.
Linton


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mike Bandli" <fuzzfoot at comcast.net>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 10:41 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Grimsby Classified H5


It is official:

http://tinyurl.com/yg8ny9g

-----------------------------------
Mike Bandli
Historic Meteorites
www.HistoricMeteorites.com
IMCA #5765
-----------------------------------


______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list





From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Tue Dec 22 16:06:04 2009
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 13:06:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Celebrated Moon Rocks
Message-ID: <200912222106.nBML65kh010858@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>


http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu/Dec09/Apollo-lunar-samples.html

Celebrated Moon Rocks
Planetary Science Research Discoveries
December 21, 2009

--- Overview and status of the Apollo lunar collection: A unique, but
limited, resource of extraterrestrial material.

Written by Linda M. V. Martel
Hawaii Institute of Geophysics and Planetology 	

"The Need for Lunar Samples and Simulants: Where Engineering and
Science Meet" sums up one of the sessions attracting attention at the
annual meeting of the Lunar Exploration Analysis Group (LEAG), held
November 16-19, 2009 in Houston, Texas. Speakers addressed the question
of how the Apollo lunar samples can be used to facilitate NASA's return
to the Moon while preserving the collection for scientific
investigation. Here is a summary of the LEAG presentations of Dr. Gary
Lofgren, Lunar Curator at the NASA Johnson Space Center in Houston,
Texas, and Dr. Meenakshi (Mini) Wadhwa, Professor at Arizona State
University and Chair of NASA's advisory committee called CAPTEM
(Curation and Analysis Planning Team for Extraterrestrial Materials).
Lofgren gave a status report of the collection of rocks and regolith
returned to Earth by the Apollo astronauts from six different landing
sites on the Moon in 1969-1972. Wadhwa explained the role of CAPTEM in
lunar sample allocation.

References:

    * Lunar Exploration Analysis Group (LEAG) Annual Meeting Agenda
      <http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/leag2009/presentations/index.shtml>,
      November 16-19, 2009.
    * Lunar Sample Compendium <
      http://www-curator.jsc.nasa.gov/lunar/compendium.cfm>.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Collection of Lunar Samples from Apollo Missions

The six Apollo missions that landed astronauts on the Moon returned a
collection of rock and soil samples weighing approximately 382 kilograms
(842 pounds) and consisting of 2,196 separate samples. Today there are
more than 110,000 individually numbered subsamples (split, chipped or
sawed pieces) available to investigators for detailed studies. The
collection also includes 16.5 meters (54 feet) of core samples pulled
from the top of the lunar regolith. (The fine-grained, fragmental, loose
material blanketing the Moon is most commonly referred to as soil but it
has none of the organic sediment component as on Earth. The more precise
term is regolith.  The number of samples
increased as the missions progressed, as shown in the table below. Click
on the emblems for more information about the missions from NASA.

Apollo Mission          11      12       14      15      16      17    Total
Number of samples: 	58 	69 	227 	370 	731 	741 	2196
Weight in kilograms: 	21.8 	34.3 	42.3 	77.3 	95.7 	110.5 	381.7

These missions, the astronauts, the thousands of people who worked to
make the missions possible, and the lunar samples brought back to Earth
were celebrated worldwide.

Today NASA continues to take charge of the curation and allocation of
the Apollo lunar samples. The specially-built Lunar Sample Laboratory
Facility, 30 years old this year, is a class 10K clean room (no more
than 10,000 particles 0.5-micron size per cubic foot of air inside the
laboratory). It is housed in a special building at the Johnson Space
Center in Houston, Texas. Workers wear clean coveralls, hats, gloves,
and shoe covers to minimize contamination.

Meticulous facilities and strict handling procedures ensure the
continued scientific integrity of the Apollo lunar samples for the needs
of the research and engineering communities today and into the future.
About 70% of the total weight of Apollo lunar samples is located in the
Lunar Sample Laboratory's pristine sample vault. "Pristine" lunar
samples (those continuously in NASA custody since return from the Moon)
are stored in multiple layers of packaging in cabinets organized by
mission. They are handled in stainless-steel glove cabinets purged by
high-purity nitrogen gas, which is relatively non-reactive, in an
environment monitored continuously for oxygen and moisture contents to
minimize degradation of the samples or chemical reaction with air.

Approximately 8% of the total weight of the collection is stored in the
returned sample vault. These are samples lent to authorized researchers
and returned to NASA. They are re-inventoried as "returned" because
these samples were exposed to air when they were located in the
investigators' laboratories. The samples are individually bagged,
tagged, and are made available again for other research projects when
contamination is less of a concern.

Another 13% of the total weight is stored in the Brooks Air Force Base
remote storage facility, which was completed in 2002. This
representative sampling of the collection is stored at the second
location to ensure the entire collection would not be lost in the event
of a major hurricane or other catastrophe at Johnson Space Center.

The other 9% of the total weight of lunar samples is currently outside
the custody of the Johnson Space Center. Some are on loan to scientists
and educators for research and teaching projects; others samples are on
loan to museums, planetariums, and public scientific expositions [see
the list of international Lunar Sample Display Locations
<http://www-curator.jsc.nasa.gov/lunar/displays/displays.cfm>]; a small
percentage has been destroyed during approved experimentation; and some
pieces of Apollo 11 and Apollo 17 samples were given as official gift
plaques to all the states of the United States, to Puerto Rico, and to
135 foreign nations. U.S. regulations prohibit private ownership of
Apollo lunar samples.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lunar Sample Allocation

The last container of lunar samples from the last Apollo mission was
logged into the lunar laboratory on January 30, 1973. From their first
arrival, the samples from the Apollo Missions have been under continuous
investigation. They are, as you can imagine, highly sought after for
scientific research in cosmochemistry, and for testing hypotheses of the
origin of the Earth/Moon system, planetary formation, and solar system
evolution. The renewed interest in robotic and human exploration of the
Moon has spawned substantial interest in studying lunar materials among
the engineering/resource utilization community. Their studies sometimes
require lunar samples to validate development of tools and processes
using simulants (soils made from Earth materials to mimic lunar
properties). Because of the obviously limited supply of Apollo lunar
samples, NASA has a robust allocation system that has been in place
since the beginning of the collection. It distributes nearly 400 samples
each year.

Lunar Curator, Dr. Gary Lofgren, works with Dr. Meenakshi (Mini) Wadhwa
and CAPTEM (Curation and Analysis Planning Team for Extraterrestrial
Materials), a NASA advisory committee, to meet the needs of scientists
and engineers who wish to obtain the most appropriate materials from the
collection for their studies. Requests are considered for both basic
research in planetary science and for applied studies including lunar
materials beneficiation, resource utilization, toxicity, or hazards
assessment. NASA provides access to the Apollo rocks, soils, and
regolith core samples for destructive and non-destructive analyses.

The checklist for requestors of Apollo lunar samples looks something
like this:

   1. The investigator must demonstrate favorable peer review of
      proposed work involving lunar samples by (1) a formal research
      proposal approved for funding through a NASA program, or an
      equivalent scientific peer-review panel, within the past three
      years, or (2) peer-reviewed articles in professional journals that
      are pertinent to the specific sample request.
   2. The investigator must submit a written request to the Lunar Sample
      Curator specifying the numbers, types, and quantities of lunar
      samples, and the planned investigations to be conducted on these.
      A resume is additionally required for new investigators.

For planetary science studies, the request is submitted to the Lunar
Sample Curator, Dr. Gary Lofgren, at NASA Johnson Space Center. For
engineering/resource utilization studies, the request is submitted to
the Lunar Simulant Curator, Dr. Carlton Allen, also at NASA Johnson
Space Center, who verifies that all necessary tests with lunar simulants
have been completed satisfactorily, and determines whether the request
warrants use of lunar samples, in which case it is forwarded to the
Lunar Sample Curator.

The Lunar Sample Curator evaluates the submitted request and supporting
materials, and makes a curatorial allocation if the request is from an
investigator who has been approved previously for sample allocation by
CAPTEM, and the request is for thin sections, "returned" lunar samples,
or less than one gram of other lunar samples with no pristinity issues.
The Curator otherwise forwards the request to CAPTEM for evaluation if
the request is from a new investigator, and/or the request involves
larger than one gram of material, or any samples with pristinity issues.
Furthermore, with very few exceptions, no lunar sample will be allocated
that reduces the remaining pristine sample below 50% by weight.

The lunar sample requests forwarded to CAPTEM are evaluated by this
standing committee. A positive recommendation by CAPTEM, followed by
approval by NASA Headquarters, constitutes formal approval of the
request. The Lunar Sample Curator prepares a Lunar Sample Loan Agreement
(including a security plan) to be signed by the investigator. Finally,
samples less than 10 grams are shipped within the U.S. by U.S.
registered mail, outside the U.S. by U.S. diplomatic pouch mail to the
American embassy nearest the investigator's location. Samples larger
than 10 grams must be hand carried by the investigator or his/her
representative.


The Apollo lunar samples are a unique, but limited, resource of
extraterrestrial rocks and regolith. Rest assured these treasured
samples are in good hands. The planetary science community has a long
heritage of developing sample-handling protocols and instrumentation for
maximizing science while minimizing the amount of sample consumed. This
approach is a good one and a necessary one for assuring that these lunar
materials will be available for the ongoing testing of hypotheses, old
and new, and development of new instruments, tools, and technologies as
we plan and realize humanity's return to the Moon.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

ADDITIONAL RESOURCES   

    * Curation and Analysis Planning Team for Extraterrestrial Materials
      (CAPTEM) <http://www.lpi.usra.edu/captem/>.
    * Lunar Exploration Analysis Group (LEAG) Annual Meeting Agenda
      <http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/leag2009/presentations/index.shtml>,
      November 16-19, 2009.
    * Lunar Petrographic Educational Thin Section Set <
      http://www-curator.jsc.nasa.gov/lunar/letss/contents.cfm>.
    * Lunar Sample Atlas <http://www.lpi.usra.edu/lunar/samples/atlas/>.
    * Lunar Sample Compendium <
      http://www-curator.jsc.nasa.gov/lunar/compendium.cfm>.
    * Moon Archive <../Archive/Archive-Moon.html> articles from
      Planetary Science Research Discoveries.
    * Rocks and Soils from the Moon
      <http://www-curator.jsc.nasa.gov/lunar/index.cfm>, website from
      Astromaterials Curation, NASA Johnson Space Center.


From fuzzfoot at comcast.net  Tue Dec 22 16:09:19 2009
From: fuzzfoot at comcast.net (Mike Bandli)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 13:09:19 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Paris, France CM Meteorite
In-Reply-To: <70baf8d20912221246q7d368678ld4b44f8697bea9b5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <A58BE0895CB44636A2C7FA4EDB996978@Bandli1>
	<C75678EE.FD46%tbear1@cableone.net>
	<70baf8d20912221246q7d368678ld4b44f8697bea9b5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <43B42043ECAA4EA2BF8D8B149B447050@Bandli1>

Several list members emailed me privately regarding the "Nova" series of
meteorites, whose localities are either unknown or questionable. Learn
something new everyday :)

-----------------------------------
Mike Bandli
Historic Meteorites
www.HistoricMeteorites.com
IMCA?#5765
-----------------------------------------------


-----Original Message-----
From: Phil Morgan [mailto:roxfromspace at gmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 12:47 PM
To: Ted Bunch
Cc: Mike Bandli; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Paris, France CM Meteorite

And other like Lafayette are quite vague as well.  But are there
others that don't even have a home country?

Phil

On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 1:23 PM, Ted Bunch <tbear1 at cableone.net> wrote:
> Not really - consider LA001 002, that supposedly came from a California
> desert, but not LA.
>
> Ted
>
>
>
> On 12/22/09 11:50 AM, "Mike Bandli" <fuzzfoot at comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> An interesting read for the Paris CM meteorite:
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/y9s6wge
>>
>> Interestingly, I believe it is the first meteorite officially classified
>> with no locality.
>>
>> -----------------------------------
>> Mike Bandli
>> Historic Meteorites
>> www.HistoricMeteorites.com
>> IMCA?#5765
>> -----------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>



From abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com  Tue Dec 22 17:40:04 2009
From: abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com (Abdelaziz Alhyane)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 14:40:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] be carful
Message-ID: <521159.9211.qm@web45413.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Dear list members,
  A fake youtube virus is going around, i got the message from two people, the logo looks different and I did not open the video.
the message is : x syas that you should see this video.

Anyone else got that message?

Best regards
Aziz


      



From cdtucson at cox.net  Mon Dec 21 12:13:06 2009
From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 12:13:06 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Men
In-Reply-To: <be0.6ea123f8.38603dad@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20091221121306.MDDI2.285904.imail@fed1rmwml31>

Steve,
Welcome back. We have missed you.
I could not agree with you more. The B-day bash and Harvey awards is always a kick. Even Bob Haag showed up last year. 
Hopefully Twink will come through again with her famous Meteorite Cake at Michael's auction as well.
Can't wait. 
Thanks Carl
--
Carl or Debbie Esparza
Meteoritemax


---- MeteorHntr at aol.com wrote: 
> Hey list,
> 
> Just a little note...for the record...for those that are  not aware, there 
> are two "Steve Arnold" individuals in the meteorite  world.  One is:  
> 
> 1.   Steve Arnold, who lives in  Arkansas, who also is the co-host (along 
> with Geoff Notkin) of Science Channel's  TV series "Meteorite Men" who has 
> been full time in the meteorite business for  over 17 years...
> 
> ...and the other is:
> 
> 2.   Steve Arnold  from Elgin (Chicago) Illinois, who is a collector and 
> who is...who is...  well...at the very least, he is the one referred to in 
> this Meteorite List  thread.
> 
> Please don't confuse these two Steve Arnold's with each  other!  
> 
> Thanks. 
> 
> On a personal note, I have been a bit too  busy the last few months to 
> respond here as much as I would like.  All too  often I would read an email 
> thread a week after the first post was made and the  issues would seem to be 
> resolved by the time I would get around to reading the  thread.
> 
> Just a note to those of you who are curious, Geoff and I just  returned 
> this weekend from a trip to Nevada spending time with a crew of 20  
> professional TV crew members shooting a TV promotion commercial of our new  series 
> "Meteorite Men."  This last week, when we arrived on to the location  of the 
> shoot,  it looked more like we were coming onto the set of LOST or  CSI as 
> opposed to the normal "Meteorite Men" production "set."
> 
> Normally  we have a much smaller crew chasing us as we have been trying to 
> shoot this  first season of episodes the last few months, but this last week 
> was  different. 
> 
> The production team hired to make the commercial spot is  scheduled to have 
> a various assortment of finished 30 second commercial spots  delivered, to 
> the Science Channel network, to start running by December  30.  We have been 
> told that the spot will run on ALL of Discovery's  channels, and not just 
> on Science Channel.   So, for those of you that  don't have the Science 
> Channel, keep your eye's open for it on Discovery, TLC,  Military, and the other 
> U.S. Discovery channels. 
> 
> Also, just as a heads  up, if the promotion staff of Discovery (Science 
> Channel's parent company)  chooses to go a bit "over the top" with the 
> promotion commercials, and they  choose to use a bit of "artistic license" with the 
> topics that they choose to  produce, we hope the "purists" in our midst will 
> understand.  ;-)
> 
> If  the commercials just run 10 times a day on each of the 10 US Discovery 
> Channels  then that would be 100 showings each day of the commercials 
> promoting meteorites  over EACH of the next 60 days.  I am not good at math, but 
> we can  expect, just from the commercials, for millions of people to be 
> exposed to field  of meteoritics for the first time, from these commercials. 
> 
> For those of  you that have been considering upgrading to get Science 
> Channel on your DIRECTV  connection, so that you can see all of the episodes of 
> "Meteorite Men" come  January 20th,  I invite you to email me OFF LIST to get 
> a special  DIRECTV deal.
> 
> For everyone that already subscribes to Science Channel, I  invite you to 
> mark you calendars (or program your DVRs) for January 20, and for  each 
> Wednesday afterwards for the next 6 weeks, at 9 pm (Eastern) for a new  episode 
> of "Meteorite Men."  (And if anyone on this list is a Neilson Box  viewer, 
> please contact me off list for a very special offer. ;-)
> 
> I think  Geoff Notkin mentioned here on the Meteorite List about the 
> upcoming 2010  Meteorite Mayhem Birthday Bash in a previous posting, but I should 
> add that this  year's Notkin/Arnold event promises to be VERY worthwhile to 
> attend.  So  much so, I encourage everyone planning to come to the Tucson 
> Show, to arrive  early enough to make it in time to attend the big party on 
> the evening  of February 5, 2010.  
> 
> While Michael Blood's Auction is great  to attend on Saturday, the fun 
> actually starts about 24 hours earlier at the  Birthday Bash on Friday Night.
> 
> For those of you who have not attended one  of the Birthday Bash events in 
> the past decade, the gathering is only about 2%  about it being "a couple of 
> guys birthday," and it is closer to around 98% an  event about "an 
> opportunity to mingle and hook up with all of the fellow global  meteorite 
> enthusiasts (dealers, collectors, scientists, etc) that does not occur  anywhere else 
> during the year, this side of the Asteroid Belt."   
> 
> Over the dozen or so years that I have attended the Tucson Show, with  the 
> exception of Adan Hupe's comments here on the list about a bad hotel  
> experience, I don't think I have heard ANYONE else ever regretting taking a trip  
> to Tucson.  I know for some people, in this economic climate, it might be a  
> stretch to justify going to Tucson...however, I can almost assure everyone, 
> that  if you chose to go, it will be one of the best choices you will ever 
> make.  
> 
> I hope everyone on the list that will want to go, can make it. And I  look 
> forward to meeting up with all of you again at Tucson '10.
>  
> Until then, I wish all of you a Merry Christmas, and a happy New  Year!
> 
> Steve Arnold
> www.MeteoriteMen.com  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In a message dated  12/20/2009 5:31:50 P.M. Central Standard Time, 
> mstreman at gmail.com  writes:
> Dear Guy I think Bill serves the community at large to remind the  list
> and newbies who know nothing about the real Steve-- so, sorry  I
> strongly disagree that we should all use the delete button.  Steve  has
> contaminated our collections with his fake/mislabeled/  relabeled
> specimens.  Conversely Steve could have spent his time  acting
> responsibly and not being a @#&#.  Where is YOUR indignation  at Steve?
> 
> And George?  Is Steve a dealer or not? Sure acts like one  but he says
> he is not one.
> Yeah yeah yeah yada yada ---but how many have  gotten fake meteorites
> and how many have been outright cheated out of what  they paid for?
> --You folks that defend Steve's giveaways are kool-aid  drinkers that
> would accept free arsenic-laced kool-aid and think it a swell  friendly
> gesture because it was a freebie and would defend his right  to
> distribute it with your dying breath.  If I loved art and could  afford
> a Picasso and I wanted to chop it up because it was mine to do as  I
> please--is it morally right to allow me to do so? You Steve  defenders
> think yes it is ok  as long as you get a piece.
> 
> This  "well Steve has never cheated me" comment is confoundedly naive.
> Do you also  disbelieve your parents when they say don't touch the iron
> it is hot and have  to touch it for yourself ?  You that defend him
> because he has never  cheated you personally--or those with memories
> shorter than a few days WILL  be cheated eventually and then you'll
> whine about getting cheated.  You  deserve what you get and it won't be
> sympathy from me.
> 
> Bottom line:  those that defend Steve are either sub rock dwellers who
> are oblivious to the  Real Steve and should gird themselves with a dose
> of reality prior to opening  their mouths  OR they are just unethical
> compulsive enablers that keep  his pathological game play going because
> they do not have the ethics to do  otherwise.
> 
> If anyone else had ran a scam just once like Arnold does  daily, the
> list would be outraged.  Misplaced sympathy for poor generous  Steve
> --held by so many allegedly informed and intelligent folk speaks  very
> poorly about their judgment in general.  MOST children are  too
> immature to play with real loaded firearms but some enablers  allow
> them to do so because it is so cute and charming but most feel it  is
> immoral to let children play with firearms.
> 
> Same-- same --for  distributing meteorites by child-like adults and to
> other child or childlike  personalities People who take hammers to
> meteorites just to give away pieces  to garner sympathy /attention
> would not be allowed to own them if I were  king. Why so many can't
> distinguish St Nick from the Grench in this  discussion is beyond me.
> 
> Elton who is also sick of "well poor Steve has a  problem so we should
> never confront him" liberal touchy-feelly "jello for a  back-bone"
> mouth pieces.
> 
> Merry Fracking Christmas
>  
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From cdtucson at cox.net  Tue Dec 22 15:35:09 2009
From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 15:35:09 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Paris, France CM Meteorite
In-Reply-To: <C75678EE.FD46%tbear1@cableone.net>
Message-ID: <20091222153509.T1PGT.299964.imail@fed1rmwml41>

Mike,
Plus these other nine listed right on the Paris info page.
Name	Status	Year	Place	Type	Mass	MetBull	GoogleEarth
  ??Map all ?	Notes
9 records found for meteorites from (unknown) with names that contain "*"
(click on a name for more information; click in header to sort)
Asarco Mexicana	Official	 	(unknown)	Iron, IIIAB	 		 	 
Nova 006	Provisional	 	(unknown)	Unknown	70 g		 	 
Nova 007	Provisional	 	(unknown)	Unknown	12 g		 	 
Nova 008	Official	<1972	(unknown)	L6	4.2 kg	93	 	 
Nova 009	Official	<1972	(unknown)	H4	7.3 kg	93	 	 
Paneth's Iron **	Official	1873	(unknown)	Iron, IIIE	150 kg	53	 	 
Paris **	Official	2001	(unknown)	CM	1370 g	97?	 	 
Rio Bunge	Official	 	(unknown)	L	11 g		 	 
Smithsonian Iron	Official	1881	(unknown)	Iron, IIAB	3.51 kg		 	 
Carl
--
Carl or Debbie Esparza
Meteoritemax


---- Ted Bunch <tbear1 at cableone.net> wrote: 
> Not really - consider LA001 002, that supposedly came from a California
> desert, but not LA.
> 
> Ted
> 
> 
> 
> On 12/22/09 11:50 AM, "Mike Bandli" <fuzzfoot at comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> > An interesting read for the Paris CM meteorite:
> > 
> > http://tinyurl.com/y9s6wge
> > 
> > Interestingly, I believe it is the first meteorite officially classified
> > with no locality.
> > 
> > -----------------------------------
> > Mike Bandli
> > Historic Meteorites
> > www.HistoricMeteorites.com
> > IMCA?#5765
> > -----------------------------------
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ______________________________________________
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From garychase at live.com  Tue Dec 22 17:46:56 2009
From: garychase at live.com (Gary Chase)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 14:46:56 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] be carful
In-Reply-To: <521159.9211.qm@web45413.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
References: <521159.9211.qm@web45413.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <COL106-W91AE1D909F733D2020F89D2810@phx.gbl>


I got it too.  The email came from habibi abdelazi.
 
Gary
 
 
> Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 14:40:04 -0800
> From: abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: [meteorite-list] be carful
> 
> Dear list members,
> A fake youtube virus is going around, i got the message from two people, the logo looks different and I did not open the video.
> the message is : x syas that you should see this video.
> 
> Anyone else got that message?
> 
> Best regards
> Aziz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141665/direct/01/

From abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com  Tue Dec 22 17:53:56 2009
From: abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com (Abdelaziz Alhyane)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 14:53:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] be carful
In-Reply-To: <COL106-W91AE1D909F733D2020F89D2810@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <319573.20261.qm@web45414.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

The first person I got it from, I hope it's not # effective virus.
Just don't open the video, who knows.
Aziz

--- On Tue, 12/22/09, Gary Chase <garychase at live.com> wrote:

> From: Gary Chase <garychase at live.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] be carful
> To: "meteoritecentral" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Date: Tuesday, December 22, 2009, 2:46 PM
> 
> I got it too.? The email came from habibi abdelazi.
>  
> Gary
>  
>  
> > Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 14:40:04 -0800
> > From: abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com
> > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > Subject: [meteorite-list] be carful
> > 
> > Dear list members,
> > A fake youtube virus is going around, i got the
> message from two people, the logo looks different and I did
> not open the video.
> > the message is : x syas that you should see this
> video.
> > 
> > Anyone else got that message?
> > 
> > Best regards
> > Aziz
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ______________________________________________
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> ???
> ????????
> ?????? ???
> ? 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141665/direct/01/
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      



From cynapse at charter.net  Tue Dec 22 18:05:47 2009
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 18:05:47 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] be carful
In-Reply-To: <521159.9211.qm@web45413.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
References: <521159.9211.qm@web45413.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <45k2j55fqaklpcknj4s8keeo69mvesa1dk@4ax.com>

On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 14:40:04 -0800 (PST), you wrote:

>Dear list members,
>  A fake youtube virus is going around, i got the message from two people, the logo looks different and I did not open the video.
>the message is : x syas that you should see this video.
>
>Anyone else got that message?

I just got it, twice:

To: cynapse at charter.net
Subject: Carl Esparza says you should see this video clip.
From: "Carl Esparza" <fbNOREPLY at myfanbox.com>
Date: 22 Dec 2009 14:37:22 -0800

Carl Esparza thinks you will really like this YouTube Video.  Check it out!
http://optin.fanbox.com/DeveloperApp/Introduction.aspx?mlid=712135614&encemail=AaX0QnRPE638j3O3gOGsM6Lx1RuLMEQBYUrcYU3OMRc%3d&vlmid=A7uxTbVVIXQesuVFoKWiOZ5HHIOyeQC6btR7lUk7LjM%3D&vet=106&dt=122209&ptid=2&aec=1&tec=1

This email was sent by Carl Esparza using the Application: Youtube Video Seach.
You can stop receiving emails here
http://profile.fanbox.com/ApplicationManager/APIEmailSettings.aspx?cid=31238&em=AaX0QnRPE638j3O3gOGsM6Lx1RuLMEQBYUrcYU3OMRc%3d&vet=106&mlid=144061847&dt=122209&ptid=2&aec=1&tec=1&sendid=142411597.



From larrytwinkmonrad at comcast.net  Tue Dec 22 18:52:47 2009
From: larrytwinkmonrad at comcast.net (Larry & Twink Monrad)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 16:52:47 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: Fall in Canada in 1984-85 near Devon, AB?
Message-ID: <20005267647A40A989ABDAE6B22A1B43@DFZN8X81>

 Bernd asked me to forward this also.  Twink

and yes the Gold Basin cake will be at Michael's auction, my pleasure.

> Hi Greg and List,
>
> The only fall I can find in my databases for North America in 1984 or 1985 
> and
> for winter (because you mentioned a cold evening) is the famous Claxton 
> mailbox
> smasher. An eyewitness, well, I had better say, an earwitness reported 
> that he heard
> "a whistling that reminded him of an incoming mortar round in Vietnam." 
> But Georgia
> is a far away from Alberta :-(
>
> On the other hand, Evans County sounds a bit like "Devon", doesn't it?
>
> Season's greetings,
>
> Bernd
> 



From stanleygregr at hotmail.com  Tue Dec 22 19:02:10 2009
From: stanleygregr at hotmail.com (Greg Stanley)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 16:02:10 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: Fall in Canada in 1984-85 near Devon, AB?
In-Reply-To: <20005267647A40A989ABDAE6B22A1B43@DFZN8X81>
References: <20005267647A40A989ABDAE6B22A1B43@DFZN8X81>
Message-ID: <SNT117-W12F16A03AB33A55FAD5057D2800@phx.gbl>



Bernd:

My friend is Canadian and grew up near Edmonton, AB, so I do not think it could be Georgia (that would be one large fireball).? Perhaps another year, as he may be a bit older than he wants us to know.? Could Innisfree have hit a car?? I think this is 1977 (could he be 8 years off?) not sure.? He's told me this story a few times and it sounds legit.? Is it possible this did not get recorded and the person kept the meteorite?

Greg S.

----------------------------------------
> From: larrytwinkmonrad at comcast.net
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 16:52:47 -0700
> CC: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: Fall in Canada in 1984-85 near Devon, AB?
>
> Bernd asked me to forward this also. Twink
>
> and yes the Gold Basin cake will be at Michael's auction, my pleasure.
>
>> Hi Greg and List,
>>
>> The only fall I can find in my databases for North America in 1984 or 1985
>> and
>> for winter (because you mentioned a cold evening) is the famous Claxton
>> mailbox
>> smasher. An eyewitness, well, I had better say, an earwitness reported
>> that he heard
>> "a whistling that reminded him of an incoming mortar round in Vietnam."
>> But Georgia
>> is a far away from Alberta :-(
>>
>> On the other hand, Evans County sounds a bit like "Devon", doesn't it?
>>
>> Season's greetings,
>>
>> Bernd
>>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222986/direct/01/

From azizhabibi at yahoo.com  Tue Dec 22 19:17:44 2009
From: azizhabibi at yahoo.com (habibi abdelaziz)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 16:17:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] be carefull
Message-ID: <514293.36253.qm@web62007.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

i get it too,
i just oprned the file and its gone nothing,
i get also from carl 4 time
aziz habibi
?<font style="BACKGROUND-COLOR:#40ffff;" face="comic sans ms">habibi aziz 
box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco 
phone. 21235576145 
fax.21235576170</font> 


      


From gmhupe at htn.net  Tue Dec 22 19:50:04 2009
From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 19:50:04 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Anomalous CO3.05 - NWA 4530 Auctions Ending - AD
Message-ID: <DC2005E06D374D58AC6BF253DD4D0F42@Gregor>

Dear List Members,

I would like to draw your attention to ending auctions of Officially-named 
NWA 4530, an Anomalous CO3.05 Polymict Carbonaceous Chondrite. It is known 
as being, "...the Most Pristine Early Solar System Material...", according 
to the primary researcher who analyzed it (please see his complete 
classification below in this email and included with my eBay descriptions).

The only pieces available to collectors will end at auction tomorrow 
(Wednesday, December 23rd). There are only five small pieces adding up to a 
mere 4.038 grams! You may also want to have a look at my other Planetary & 
Achondrite auctions, most still at the low opening price of 99 cents. These 
auctions will most certainly be an early Christmas present to the lucky 
winners!

All of these incredible specimens can be found by clicking here: 
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault

NWA 4530 - 24.7g Main Mass Photo:
http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa4530/nwa4530mainmass.jpg

Quote from the Primary Researcher who analyzed NWA 4530:
"NWA 4530 is the most pristine early solar system material I have ever seen.
There are no CO3.05s or CO3.0s or even CO3.1s that are as pristine (W/0) as
NWA 4530... a unique and important meteorite!"

Here is the submitted classification for the Meteoritical Bulletin:
Northwest Africa 4530
     Algeria
     Find: September 2006
     Carbonaceous chondrite (CO3.05, anomalous)

History: A single 35.9gram stone broken into 5 pieces was purchased by Greg
Hup? from a Moroccan dealer in Tagounite in September 2006.

Physical Characteristics: Very fresh, light to medium gray interior, with
translucent dark fusion crust with internal bubbles and a prominent
diamond-shaped reticulated pattern in areas where the crust has flaked off.

Petrography (T. Bunch and J. Wittke, NAU; A. Irving, UWS): A polymict,
unequilibrated meteorite, exhibiting some characteristics consistent with
other CO3 chondrites (e. g., non-spherical chondrules are most abundant and
are lobate, distended, and highly irregular, some with fine-grained
accretionary rims). Distinctive chondrule-like objects (designated as CLO)
are also common and are typically fragmented with miniscule mesostasis.
Classic chondrule types are few in number and consist mostly of densely
packed Type I PO and POP with little to no detectable mesostasis. There is
no apparent correlation of Cr2O3 with FeO in FeO-rich olivine with distance
from core to rim, yet there is a correlation of Cr2O3 with FeO in
forsteritic cores. Cr-rich olivine rims were not observed. Amoeboid olivine
inclusions are the most common CAI. The fine-grained matrix is
unrecrystallized with very fine-grained magnetite, sulfides, silica,
glasses, and silicates. Rare, small cohenite grains were also found.
Irregular-shaped sulfides are much larger and range in size from 0.02 to
0.12 mm. Complex nuggets are of two types: (1) those consisting of
pentlandite, troilite, and Cr-magnetite, and (2) sulfide-bearing nuggets,
consisting of a solitary pentlandite grain surrounded by troilite with wispy
oriented inclusions of an unknown sulfide. Magnetite is a common inclusion
in chondrules, and the composition and distribution of magnetite is similar
to that in CK chondrites. No NiFe metal was observed anywhere. Angular,
large (up to 2 x 1.5 mm) igneous-textured clasts contain (in vol %):
forsterite, 79; troilite and pentlandite, 18 and diopside, 3.

Geochemistry: Overall olivine compositions range from, Fa0.03 to Fa72
(FeO/MnO = 61 - 133, mean is 91). Cr2O3 in FeO-rich olivine fragments has a
range of 0.10 to 0.48 wt % with a peak at 0.34 wt % (N = 84). Chondrule-like
fragments (CLO) have a more overall FeO-rich olivine composition, with lower
Fa range (core Fa = 4; rim Fa =41) and lower Cr2O3 content (0.04 - 0.31,
mean = 0.18). Chromian spinel, Cr/(Cr+Al) = 0.24 -0.34. Unknown sulfide is
(in wt. %): Fe, 67.5 and S, 33.2.  Cr-magnetite contains 0.47 - 3.1 wt %
Cr2O3 with minor amounts of MgO, Al2O3, P2O5, CaO and NiO. Unzoned
igneous-textured clast olivine is Fa2.7 (FeO/MnO = 31) and diopside is
Fs1.2Wo39.  Average matrix analysis (partial, N= 27) by defocused beam
microanalysis is (in wt %): Na2O = 0.81; K2O = 0.25; S = 2.48; P2O5 = 0.44;
Cr2O3 = 0.45; NiO = 0.45; S/Si = 0.19; Na/Al = 0.31. Oxygen isotopes (D.
Rumble, CIW): analysis of acid-washed material by laser fluorination gave
d18O = -4.228; d17O = -7.052; D17O = -4.829 per mil, consistent with CO
chondrites.

Classification: Carbonaceous chondrite (CO3.05, anomalous). This stone is
polymict; most components are consistent with CO3 chondrites, although
chondrule-like components (CLO) are not common in CO chondrites (from a
survey of 34 specimens in the NAU repository). NWA 4530 is more highly
oxidized than most CO chondrites and is devoid of metal. The Cr2O3 content
in olivine and the matrix composition is consistent with CO3.0 - CO3.05
(Grossman J. N. and Brearley A. J. (2005) M&PS 40, 87-122). The weathering
grade is W0/1; there is no evidence of any interior weathering. The shock
level is S1.

Good Luck to all of the interested bidders, Thank You!

Best regards,
Greg

====================
Greg Hupe
The Hupe Collection
NaturesVault (eBay)
gmhupe at htn.net
www.LunarRock.com
IMCA 3163
====================
Click here for my current eBay auctions: 
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault




From bobl at peaktopeak.com  Tue Dec 22 20:46:46 2009
From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 18:46:46 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Whetstone Mountains Monograph
In-Reply-To: <965722.59450.qm@web46413.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20091223014658.63B9B10564@mailwash5.pair.com>

I got mine too (yesterday).  #69 of 97.  :-)  I've read only about 10 pages
so far, but from what I've seen, it's a job well done.  Thanks Dave G. and
Jack S!

Regards,

Bob Loeffler
BobL at peaktopeak.com
Field Trip Chairman and Webmaster
North Jeffco Gem & Mineral Club (Arvada, CO  USA)
http://www.peaktopeak.com/njeffco/index.php

Webmaster and Asst. Dealer Chairman
Denver Gem and Mineral Show
http://www.DenverMineralShow.com

Check out the largest Colorado Rockhounding website at:
http://www.peaktopeak.com/colorado/index.php3



-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Greg
Catterton
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 4:47 PM
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: [meteorite-list] Whetstone Mountains Monograph

I just received my autographed copy of Whetstone Mountains monograph.

I have to say an excellent job was done on this, and I am super pleased to
have one.
The documentation is an incredible read that I will certainly take time to
read more then once.
The fragment is got even had a nice spot of fusion crust on it!

If you ordered one and have not got it yet, just wait!!!
Thats all Im gonna say. I dont want to spoil it for those that have not seen
it in person.

Great job to all involved in this.

Greg C.


      
______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
Version: 9.0.717 / Virus Database: 270.14.115/2577 - Release Date: 12/21/09
00:36:00



From minador at yahoo.com  Tue Dec 22 21:00:27 2009
From: minador at yahoo.com (Mark Bowling)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 18:00:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] fireball over Southern AZ
In-Reply-To: <28ba8378.00d1.48f3.b7a8.0b55022bff7e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <19920.40125.qm@web54504.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Hi Anne,

You mean Tucson doesn't make the list??  ;-)


Places in the USA outside of Alaska with freezing temperatures, of 32 ?F or less, on 180 or more days a year: 

Location             Days Freezing per Year 
Mt. Washington, New Hampshire 242 
Alamosa, Colorado 227 
Ely, Nevada 218 
Flagstaff, Arizona 208 
Burns, Oregon 205 
International Falls, Minnesota 197 
Elko, Nevada 193 
Marquette, Michigan 192 
Kalispell, Montana 189 
Williston, North Dakota 189 
Caribou, Maine 186 
Winnemucca, Nevada 186 
Bismarck, North Dakota 186 
Sheridan, Wyoming 185 
Duluth, Minnesota 183 
Lander, Wyoming 183 
Casper, Wyoming 181 
Missoula, Montana 180 
Milford, Utah 180 

Anyways, my cousin said he saw it on Sunday night.  I'll see if he has any further details.

Mark

--- On Tue, 12/22/09, Impactika <impactika at aol.com> wrote:

> From: Impactika <impactika at aol.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] fireball over Southern AZ
> To: "Mark Bowling" <minador at yahoo.com>, "Larry Lebofsky" <lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu>
> Date: Tuesday, December 22, 2009, 6:31 PM
> 
>  
>  
>  
> Cold!!!!
> ?
> You two need to come up to
> Colorado for the Holidays!
> ?
> Supposed to snow again to
> night, and into tomorrow, at least. But it has been
> relatively warm the last few days, in the low
> 50.
> ?
> See you soon.
> Anne?
> ?
> ?
> ?
> In a message dated 12/22/09 10:03:47 Mountain Standard
> Time, minador at yahoo.com writes:
> 
> 
> 
> #yiv1781482045 .aolmailheader         
> {font-size:8pt;color:black;font-family:Arial;}
> #yiv1781482045 a.aolmailheader:link   
> {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;font-weight:normal;}
> #yiv1781482045 a.aolmailheader:visited
> {color:magenta;text-decoration:underline;font-weight:normal;}
> #yiv1781482045 a.aolmailheader:active 
> {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;font-weight:normal;}
> #yiv1781482045 a.aolmailheader:hover  
> {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;font-weight:normal;}
> 
> Hey Larry, 
> I once moved from Tucson to Elko, till I found out that the
> alternate spelling of Elko was COLD... 
> 
> I'll get it reported as Gracie suggested. ?I'm
> hoping that some shoppers saw it. ?The malls and stores
> are quite active at that time. 
> Mark 
> 
> --- On Tue, 12/22/09, lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu
> <lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu> wrote: 
> 
> > From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu
> <lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu> 
> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] fireball over Southern
> AZ 
> > To: "Mark Bowling" <minador at yahoo.com>
> 
> > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com 
> > Date: Tuesday, December 22, 2009, 9:24 AM 
> > Saw nothing from Tucson, but have not 
> > spent much time outside since it has 
> > been cloudy and (relatively) cold (at least for those
> of us 
> > in Tucson, and 
> > waiting to get all of the responses from places that
> are 
> > really cold). 
> > 
> > Larry 
> > 
> > > Hey all, 
> > > 
> > > My cousin sent me a message in Facebook this
> morning 
> > (see below).? Has 
> > > anybody else seen this or any reported 
> > sightings?? Surely there were a lot 
> > > of folks out shopping or enjoying the evening...
> 
> > > 
> > > Mark B. 
> > > Vail, AZ 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > "the other night about 6pm heading back to
> tucson i 
> > was in eloy and saw a 
> > > falling star, being cloudy it made the clouds
> glow for 
> > a bit and the tail 
> > > sparkled. it had to land near the tortillitas or
> in 
> > catalina but it made a 
> > > boom sound i had my window down. it was the
> coolest i 
> > ever seen and i seen 
> > > many out on the road." 
> > > ______________________________________________ 
> > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com 
> > > Meteorite-list mailing list 
> > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com 
> > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/met
> 
> eorite-list 
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > ______________________________________________ 
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com 
> > Meteorite-list mailing list 
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com 
> >
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 
> > 
> ______________________________________________ 
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com 
> Meteorite-list mailing list 
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com 
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 
> 
> ?
> 
>  
> 


From tommy2005 at hvc.rr.com  Tue Dec 22 21:28:57 2009
From: tommy2005 at hvc.rr.com (Tom Randall (KB2SMS))
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 21:28:57 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] be carful
Message-ID: <DA00BD87-4B45-4FC2-9D8E-11F68CC967E9@hvc.rr.com>


  I am SO GLAD I ditched Windows 13+ years ago.........



----
In just two days, tomorrow will be yesterday.

http://home.roadrunner.com/~kb2sms/





From searchingforfun at sbcglobal.net  Tue Dec 22 18:22:40 2009
From: searchingforfun at sbcglobal.net (Brian Cox)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 17:22:40 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] fake you tube email
References: <mailman.27.1261521606.60498.meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
Message-ID: <6C248DAB29C3439790A6C63774187FA6@user6e6e286533>

Hi Aziz,

thanks for letting me know. I just got it before I read the post here. It's 
from one of the list members and I just emailed him to ask if he really sent 
it. I'm wondering if it's either someone getting our emails from the 
Meteorite list or facebook. It said just what yours said: 
xxxxxxxxxxxxx thinks you will really like this YOuTube video. Check it out 
in blue and I didn't click on it.

Thanks,

Brian
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <meteorite-list-request at meteoritecentral.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 4:40 PM
Subject: Meteorite-list Digest, Vol 75, Issue 54


> Send Meteorite-list mailing list submissions to
> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> meteorite-list-request at meteoritecentral.com
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> meteorite-list-owner at meteoritecentral.com
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Meteorite-list digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: fireball over Southern AZ (Mark Bowling)
>   2. Duking it out at the AGU (E.P. Grondine)
>   3. Grimsby Classified H5 (Mike Bandli)
>   4. Paris, France CM Meteorite (Mike Bandli)
>   5. Re: Grimsby Classified H5 (Linton Rohr)
>   6. Re: Paris, France CM Meteorite (Ted Bunch)
>   7. Re: Grimsby Classified H5 (Mike Bandli)
>   8. Fall in Canada in 1984-85 near Devon, AB? (Greg Stanley)
>   9. Re: Paris, France CM Meteorite (Phil Morgan)
>  10. Re: Grimsby Classified H5 (Linton Rohr)
>  11. Celebrated Moon Rocks (Ron Baalke)
>  12. Re: Paris, France CM Meteorite (Mike Bandli)
>  13. be carful (Abdelaziz Alhyane)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 09:02:49 -0800 (PST)
> From: Mark Bowling <minador at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] fireball over Southern AZ
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Message-ID: <431454.23608.qm at web54505.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Hey Larry,
> I once moved from Tucson to Elko, till I found out that the alternate 
> spelling of Elko was COLD...
>
> I'll get it reported as Gracie suggested.  I'm hoping that some shoppers 
> saw it.  The malls and stores are quite active at that time.
> Mark
>
> --- On Tue, 12/22/09, lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu <lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu> 
> wrote:
>
>> From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu <lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu>
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] fireball over Southern AZ
>> To: "Mark Bowling" <minador at yahoo.com>
>> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Date: Tuesday, December 22, 2009, 9:24 AM
>> Saw nothing from Tucson, but have not
>> spent much time outside since it has
>> been cloudy and (relatively) cold (at least for those of us
>> in Tucson, and
>> waiting to get all of the responses from places that are
>> really cold).
>>
>> Larry
>>
>> > Hey all,
>> >
>> > My cousin sent me a message in Facebook this morning
>> (see below).? Has
>> > anybody else seen this or any reported
>> sightings?? Surely there were a lot
>> > of folks out shopping or enjoying the evening...
>> >
>> > Mark B.
>> > Vail, AZ
>> >
>> >
>> > "the other night about 6pm heading back to tucson i
>> was in eloy and saw a
>> > falling star, being cloudy it made the clouds glow for
>> a bit and the tail
>> > sparkled. it had to land near the tortillitas or in
>> catalina but it made a
>> > boom sound i had my window down. it was the coolest i
>> ever seen and i seen
>> > many out on the road."
>> > ______________________________________________
>> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> > Meteorite-list mailing list
>> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> >
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 09:13:28 -0800 (PST)
> From: "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Duking it out at the AGU
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Message-ID: <430168.86596.qm at web36903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Hi -
>
> While the banks of a river that floods are not a good place to get 
> reliably dated mega-fauna DNA samples:
>
> http://www.canada.com/technology/MAMMOTH+DISCOVERY/2340164/story.html
>
> There is little doubt that man was hunting mega-fauna when he arrived in 
> the Americas, say about 45,000 BCE. And there can be little doubt that 
> Clovis technology greatly increased the efficiency of that hunting.
>
> We're still left with the problem of sudden quarry abandonment, and a 
> sudden drop in mega-fauna populations. Also with the problem of the causes 
> of some of the First Peoples' memories of comet impact.
>
> The question of the effects of any impacts on the draining of Lake Agassiz 
> have not been examined yet.
>
> The lack of funding for those researching this is appaling.
>
> Anyone who would like a copy of the cast of the Trempealeau Petroglyph can 
> contact me off list. While it appears to show cometary impact, 
> unfortunately since the site was lost we do not know if it was from the YD 
> impacts, or the Rio Cuarto impacts, or another set of impacts.
>
> E.P. Grondine
> Man and Impact in the Americas
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 10:41:52 -0800
> From: "Mike Bandli" <fuzzfoot at comcast.net>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Grimsby Classified H5
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Message-ID: <09C9F5AF2A8A45968FDF33DAFE8B2DBF at Bandli1>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> It is official:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/yg8ny9g
>
> -----------------------------------
> Mike Bandli
> Historic Meteorites
> www.HistoricMeteorites.com
> IMCA?#5765
> -----------------------------------
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 10:50:50 -0800
> From: "Mike Bandli" <fuzzfoot at comcast.net>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Paris, France CM Meteorite
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Message-ID: <A58BE0895CB44636A2C7FA4EDB996978 at Bandli1>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> An interesting read for the Paris CM meteorite:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/y9s6wge
>
> Interestingly, I believe it is the first meteorite officially classified
> with no locality.
>
> -----------------------------------
> Mike Bandli
> Historic Meteorites
> www.HistoricMeteorites.com
> IMCA?#5765
> -----------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 12:00:02 -0800
> From: "Linton Rohr" <lintonius at earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Grimsby Classified H5
> To: "Mike Bandli" <fuzzfoot at comcast.net>
> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Message-ID: <E0ECD3FF187A438CBF0BD3C2EE9EA898 at D190TH71>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Cool. Thanks Mike.
> So it's still a relatively low TKW, at 215g (I've always assumed "Mass" 
> and
> TKW to be equivalent).
> One thing I don't understand, though. How can Michael Farmer be listed as
> the main mass holder already, with the Canadian export permit 
> requirements?
> ( Not that I mind.) Has it been long enough already for an export permit 
> to
> be issued? Or is the Met Bull just assuming that it will be eventually? 
> It's
> only been a couple months. I'm just thinking of the export delay with
> Buzzard Coulee, which I'd love to see available in Tucson, by the way.
> Linton
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Mike Bandli" <fuzzfoot at comcast.net>
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 10:41 AM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Grimsby Classified H5
>
>
> It is official:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/yg8ny9g
>
> -----------------------------------
> Mike Bandli
> Historic Meteorites
> www.HistoricMeteorites.com
> IMCA #5765
> -----------------------------------
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 13:23:58 -0700
> From: Ted Bunch <tbear1 at cableone.net>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Paris, France CM Meteorite
> To: Mike Bandli <fuzzfoot at comcast.net>,
> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Message-ID: <C75678EE.FD46%tbear1 at cableone.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
>
> Not really - consider LA001 002, that supposedly came from a California
> desert, but not LA.
>
> Ted
>
>
>
> On 12/22/09 11:50 AM, "Mike Bandli" <fuzzfoot at comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> An interesting read for the Paris CM meteorite:
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/y9s6wge
>>
>> Interestingly, I believe it is the first meteorite officially classified
>> with no locality.
>>
>> -----------------------------------
>> Mike Bandli
>> Historic Meteorites
>> www.HistoricMeteorites.com
>> IMCA?#5765
>> -----------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 12:29:41 -0800
> From: "Mike Bandli" <fuzzfoot at comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Grimsby Classified H5
> To: "'Linton Rohr'" <lintonius at earthlink.net>
> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Message-ID: <777E76092A2D444193FB01559B7A68F5 at Bandli1>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hi Linton,
>
> Though it lists Michael Farmer as the holder, all of the stones, including
> ours, are being held in Canada. No export permits will be applied for 
> (that
> I know of). With the low total recovered weight, unprecedented recovery
> efforts, and it being the most documented fireball in history, we don't 
> see
> any scenario of them ever leaving Canada. It is our hope that our stone
> eventually finds its way into a Canadian museum or institution.
>
> -----------------------------------
> Mike Bandli
> Historic Meteorites
> www.HistoricMeteorites.com
> IMCA?#5765
> -----------------------------------------------
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Linton Rohr [mailto:lintonius at earthlink.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 12:00 PM
> To: Mike Bandli
> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Grimsby Classified H5
>
> Cool. Thanks Mike.
> So it's still a relatively low TKW, at 215g (I've always assumed "Mass" 
> and
> TKW to be equivalent).
> One thing I don't understand, though. How can Michael Farmer be listed as
> the main mass holder already, with the Canadian export permit 
> requirements?
> ( Not that I mind.) Has it been long enough already for an export permit 
> to
> be issued? Or is the Met Bull just assuming that it will be eventually? 
> It's
>
> only been a couple months. I'm just thinking of the export delay with
> Buzzard Coulee, which I'd love to see available in Tucson, by the way.
> Linton
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Mike Bandli" <fuzzfoot at comcast.net>
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 10:41 AM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Grimsby Classified H5
>
>
> It is official:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/yg8ny9g
>
> -----------------------------------
> Mike Bandli
> Historic Meteorites
> www.HistoricMeteorites.com
> IMCA #5765
> -----------------------------------
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 12:30:35 -0800
> From: Greg Stanley <stanleygregr at hotmail.com>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Fall in Canada in 1984-85 near Devon, AB?
> To: <lintonius at earthlink.net>, Mike <fuzzfoot at comcast.net>
> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Message-ID: <SNT117-W4459D46FDD33F534AF8F5D2810 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
> Hi List:
>
> Wow - that was fast, hope to see it at Tucson.
>
> I have a question regarding a Canadian meteorite fall that a friend of 
> mine witnessed back in 1984 or 85.? It was during a cold evening about 20 
> miles West of Devon, AB when he and a group of his friends noticed that 
> suddenly it became as bright as day.? Then right above them a red/orange 
> fireball (which sounded like a jet engine) flew eastward.? They watched it 
> fly towards the horizon as pieced broke off.? The next day he read in the 
> Edmonton Sun newspaper that the meteorite struck and damaged a car, I 
> believe owned by a women.
>
> If anyone on the list in Canada or anyone knows what this fall could be, I 
> would like to know.? I have researched it on the bulletin and the web and 
> can't find it.? Being a hammer, I think it would be documented.
>
> Thanks... and happy holidays, and congratulations to Mike Farmer for his 
> Grimsby find.
>
> Greg S.
>
> ----------------------------------------
>> From: lintonius at earthlink.net
>> To: fuzzfoot at comcast.net
>> Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 12:00:02 -0800
>> CC: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Grimsby Classified H5
>>
>> Cool. Thanks Mike.
>> So it's still a relatively low TKW, at 215g (I've always assumed "Mass" 
>> and
>> TKW to be equivalent).
>> One thing I don't understand, though. How can Michael Farmer be listed as
>> the main mass holder already, with the Canadian export permit 
>> requirements?
>> ( Not that I mind.) Has it been long enough already for an export permit 
>> to
>> be issued? Or is the Met Bull just assuming that it will be eventually? 
>> It's
>> only been a couple months. I'm just thinking of the export delay with
>> Buzzard Coulee, which I'd love to see available in Tucson, by the way.
>> Linton
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Mike Bandli"
>> To:
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 10:41 AM
>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Grimsby Classified H5
>>
>>
>> It is official:
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/yg8ny9g
>>
>> -----------------------------------
>> Mike Bandli
>> Historic Meteorites
>> www.HistoricMeteorites.com
>> IMCA #5765
>> -----------------------------------
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222986/direct/01/
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 13:46:53 -0700
> From: Phil Morgan <roxfromspace at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Paris, France CM Meteorite
> To: Ted Bunch <tbear1 at cableone.net>
> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Message-ID:
> <70baf8d20912221246q7d368678ld4b44f8697bea9b5 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> And other like Lafayette are quite vague as well.  But are there
> others that don't even have a home country?
>
> Phil
>
> On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 1:23 PM, Ted Bunch <tbear1 at cableone.net> wrote:
>> Not really - consider LA001 002, that supposedly came from a California
>> desert, but not LA.
>>
>> Ted
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12/22/09 11:50 AM, "Mike Bandli" <fuzzfoot at comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>> An interesting read for the Paris CM meteorite:
>>>
>>> http://tinyurl.com/y9s6wge
>>>
>>> Interestingly, I believe it is the first meteorite officially classified
>>> with no locality.
>>>
>>> -----------------------------------
>>> Mike Bandli
>>> Historic Meteorites
>>> www.HistoricMeteorites.com
>>> IMCA?#5765
>>> -----------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 12:52:55 -0800
> From: "Linton Rohr" <lintonius at earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Grimsby Classified H5
> To: "Mike Bandli" <fuzzfoot at comcast.net>
> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Message-ID: <CB34F1F7E38E44B1AEBB9D5DCC8F037F at D190TH71>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Ah. Thanks for the enlightenment, Mike. That's quite commendable.
> I would like to think more will be found, but the prospects don't look 
> good,
> considering the effort that's already been made.
> Linton
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Mike Bandli" <fuzzfoot at comcast.net>
> To: "'Linton Rohr'" <lintonius at earthlink.net>
> Cc: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 12:29 PM
> Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Grimsby Classified H5
>
>
> Hi Linton,
>
> Though it lists Michael Farmer as the holder, all of the stones, including
> ours, are being held in Canada. No export permits will be applied for 
> (that
> I know of). With the low total recovered weight, unprecedented recovery
> efforts, and it being the most documented fireball in history, we don't 
> see
> any scenario of them ever leaving Canada. It is our hope that our stone
> eventually finds its way into a Canadian museum or institution.
>
> -----------------------------------
> Mike Bandli
> Historic Meteorites
> www.HistoricMeteorites.com
> IMCA #5765
> -----------------------------------------------
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Linton Rohr [mailto:lintonius at earthlink.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 12:00 PM
> To: Mike Bandli
> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Grimsby Classified H5
>
> Cool. Thanks Mike.
> So it's still a relatively low TKW, at 215g (I've always assumed "Mass" 
> and
> TKW to be equivalent).
> One thing I don't understand, though. How can Michael Farmer be listed as
> the main mass holder already, with the Canadian export permit 
> requirements?
> ( Not that I mind.) Has it been long enough already for an export permit 
> to
> be issued? Or is the Met Bull just assuming that it will be eventually? 
> It's
>
> only been a couple months. I'm just thinking of the export delay with
> Buzzard Coulee, which I'd love to see available in Tucson, by the way.
> Linton
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Mike Bandli" <fuzzfoot at comcast.net>
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 10:41 AM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Grimsby Classified H5
>
>
> It is official:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/yg8ny9g
>
> -----------------------------------
> Mike Bandli
> Historic Meteorites
> www.HistoricMeteorites.com
> IMCA #5765
> -----------------------------------
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 13:06:04 -0800 (PST)
> From: Ron Baalke <baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Celebrated Moon Rocks
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com (Meteorite Mailing List)
> Message-ID: <200912222106.nBML65kh010858 at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>
> http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu/Dec09/Apollo-lunar-samples.html
>
> Celebrated Moon Rocks
> Planetary Science Research Discoveries
> December 21, 2009
>
> --- Overview and status of the Apollo lunar collection: A unique, but
> limited, resource of extraterrestrial material.
>
> Written by Linda M. V. Martel
> Hawaii Institute of Geophysics and Planetology
>
> "The Need for Lunar Samples and Simulants: Where Engineering and
> Science Meet" sums up one of the sessions attracting attention at the
> annual meeting of the Lunar Exploration Analysis Group (LEAG), held
> November 16-19, 2009 in Houston, Texas. Speakers addressed the question
> of how the Apollo lunar samples can be used to facilitate NASA's return
> to the Moon while preserving the collection for scientific
> investigation. Here is a summary of the LEAG presentations of Dr. Gary
> Lofgren, Lunar Curator at the NASA Johnson Space Center in Houston,
> Texas, and Dr. Meenakshi (Mini) Wadhwa, Professor at Arizona State
> University and Chair of NASA's advisory committee called CAPTEM
> (Curation and Analysis Planning Team for Extraterrestrial Materials).
> Lofgren gave a status report of the collection of rocks and regolith
> returned to Earth by the Apollo astronauts from six different landing
> sites on the Moon in 1969-1972. Wadhwa explained the role of CAPTEM in
> lunar sample allocation.
>
> References:
>
>    * Lunar Exploration Analysis Group (LEAG) Annual Meeting Agenda
> 
> <http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/leag2009/presentations/index.shtml>,
>      November 16-19, 2009.
>    * Lunar Sample Compendium <
>      http://www-curator.jsc.nasa.gov/lunar/compendium.cfm>.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> The Collection of Lunar Samples from Apollo Missions
>
> The six Apollo missions that landed astronauts on the Moon returned a
> collection of rock and soil samples weighing approximately 382 kilograms
> (842 pounds) and consisting of 2,196 separate samples. Today there are
> more than 110,000 individually numbered subsamples (split, chipped or
> sawed pieces) available to investigators for detailed studies. The
> collection also includes 16.5 meters (54 feet) of core samples pulled
> from the top of the lunar regolith. (The fine-grained, fragmental, loose
> material blanketing the Moon is most commonly referred to as soil but it
> has none of the organic sediment component as on Earth. The more precise
> term is regolith.  The number of samples
> increased as the missions progressed, as shown in the table below. Click
> on the emblems for more information about the missions from NASA.
>
> Apollo Mission          11      12       14      15      16      17 
> Total
> Number of samples: 58 69 227 370 731 741 2196
> Weight in kilograms: 21.8 34.3 42.3 77.3 95.7 110.5 381.7
>
> These missions, the astronauts, the thousands of people who worked to
> make the missions possible, and the lunar samples brought back to Earth
> were celebrated worldwide.
>
> Today NASA continues to take charge of the curation and allocation of
> the Apollo lunar samples. The specially-built Lunar Sample Laboratory
> Facility, 30 years old this year, is a class 10K clean room (no more
> than 10,000 particles 0.5-micron size per cubic foot of air inside the
> laboratory). It is housed in a special building at the Johnson Space
> Center in Houston, Texas. Workers wear clean coveralls, hats, gloves,
> and shoe covers to minimize contamination.
>
> Meticulous facilities and strict handling procedures ensure the
> continued scientific integrity of the Apollo lunar samples for the needs
> of the research and engineering communities today and into the future.
> About 70% of the total weight of Apollo lunar samples is located in the
> Lunar Sample Laboratory's pristine sample vault. "Pristine" lunar
> samples (those continuously in NASA custody since return from the Moon)
> are stored in multiple layers of packaging in cabinets organized by
> mission. They are handled in stainless-steel glove cabinets purged by
> high-purity nitrogen gas, which is relatively non-reactive, in an
> environment monitored continuously for oxygen and moisture contents to
> minimize degradation of the samples or chemical reaction with air.
>
> Approximately 8% of the total weight of the collection is stored in the
> returned sample vault. These are samples lent to authorized researchers
> and returned to NASA. They are re-inventoried as "returned" because
> these samples were exposed to air when they were located in the
> investigators' laboratories. The samples are individually bagged,
> tagged, and are made available again for other research projects when
> contamination is less of a concern.
>
> Another 13% of the total weight is stored in the Brooks Air Force Base
> remote storage facility, which was completed in 2002. This
> representative sampling of the collection is stored at the second
> location to ensure the entire collection would not be lost in the event
> of a major hurricane or other catastrophe at Johnson Space Center.
>
> The other 9% of the total weight of lunar samples is currently outside
> the custody of the Johnson Space Center. Some are on loan to scientists
> and educators for research and teaching projects; others samples are on
> loan to museums, planetariums, and public scientific expositions [see
> the list of international Lunar Sample Display Locations
> <http://www-curator.jsc.nasa.gov/lunar/displays/displays.cfm>]; a small
> percentage has been destroyed during approved experimentation; and some
> pieces of Apollo 11 and Apollo 17 samples were given as official gift
> plaques to all the states of the United States, to Puerto Rico, and to
> 135 foreign nations. U.S. regulations prohibit private ownership of
> Apollo lunar samples.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Lunar Sample Allocation
>
> The last container of lunar samples from the last Apollo mission was
> logged into the lunar laboratory on January 30, 1973. From their first
> arrival, the samples from the Apollo Missions have been under continuous
> investigation. They are, as you can imagine, highly sought after for
> scientific research in cosmochemistry, and for testing hypotheses of the
> origin of the Earth/Moon system, planetary formation, and solar system
> evolution. The renewed interest in robotic and human exploration of the
> Moon has spawned substantial interest in studying lunar materials among
> the engineering/resource utilization community. Their studies sometimes
> require lunar samples to validate development of tools and processes
> using simulants (soils made from Earth materials to mimic lunar
> properties). Because of the obviously limited supply of Apollo lunar
> samples, NASA has a robust allocation system that has been in place
> since the beginning of the collection. It distributes nearly 400 samples
> each year.
>
> Lunar Curator, Dr. Gary Lofgren, works with Dr. Meenakshi (Mini) Wadhwa
> and CAPTEM (Curation and Analysis Planning Team for Extraterrestrial
> Materials), a NASA advisory committee, to meet the needs of scientists
> and engineers who wish to obtain the most appropriate materials from the
> collection for their studies. Requests are considered for both basic
> research in planetary science and for applied studies including lunar
> materials beneficiation, resource utilization, toxicity, or hazards
> assessment. NASA provides access to the Apollo rocks, soils, and
> regolith core samples for destructive and non-destructive analyses.
>
> The checklist for requestors of Apollo lunar samples looks something
> like this:
>
>   1. The investigator must demonstrate favorable peer review of
>      proposed work involving lunar samples by (1) a formal research
>      proposal approved for funding through a NASA program, or an
>      equivalent scientific peer-review panel, within the past three
>      years, or (2) peer-reviewed articles in professional journals that
>      are pertinent to the specific sample request.
>   2. The investigator must submit a written request to the Lunar Sample
>      Curator specifying the numbers, types, and quantities of lunar
>      samples, and the planned investigations to be conducted on these.
>      A resume is additionally required for new investigators.
>
> For planetary science studies, the request is submitted to the Lunar
> Sample Curator, Dr. Gary Lofgren, at NASA Johnson Space Center. For
> engineering/resource utilization studies, the request is submitted to
> the Lunar Simulant Curator, Dr. Carlton Allen, also at NASA Johnson
> Space Center, who verifies that all necessary tests with lunar simulants
> have been completed satisfactorily, and determines whether the request
> warrants use of lunar samples, in which case it is forwarded to the
> Lunar Sample Curator.
>
> The Lunar Sample Curator evaluates the submitted request and supporting
> materials, and makes a curatorial allocation if the request is from an
> investigator who has been approved previously for sample allocation by
> CAPTEM, and the request is for thin sections, "returned" lunar samples,
> or less than one gram of other lunar samples with no pristinity issues.
> The Curator otherwise forwards the request to CAPTEM for evaluation if
> the request is from a new investigator, and/or the request involves
> larger than one gram of material, or any samples with pristinity issues.
> Furthermore, with very few exceptions, no lunar sample will be allocated
> that reduces the remaining pristine sample below 50% by weight.
>
> The lunar sample requests forwarded to CAPTEM are evaluated by this
> standing committee. A positive recommendation by CAPTEM, followed by
> approval by NASA Headquarters, constitutes formal approval of the
> request. The Lunar Sample Curator prepares a Lunar Sample Loan Agreement
> (including a security plan) to be signed by the investigator. Finally,
> samples less than 10 grams are shipped within the U.S. by U.S.
> registered mail, outside the U.S. by U.S. diplomatic pouch mail to the
> American embassy nearest the investigator's location. Samples larger
> than 10 grams must be hand carried by the investigator or his/her
> representative.
>
>
> The Apollo lunar samples are a unique, but limited, resource of
> extraterrestrial rocks and regolith. Rest assured these treasured
> samples are in good hands. The planetary science community has a long
> heritage of developing sample-handling protocols and instrumentation for
> maximizing science while minimizing the amount of sample consumed. This
> approach is a good one and a necessary one for assuring that these lunar
> materials will be available for the ongoing testing of hypotheses, old
> and new, and development of new instruments, tools, and technologies as
> we plan and realize humanity's return to the Moon.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ADDITIONAL RESOURCES
>
>    * Curation and Analysis Planning Team for Extraterrestrial Materials
>      (CAPTEM) <http://www.lpi.usra.edu/captem/>.
>    * Lunar Exploration Analysis Group (LEAG) Annual Meeting Agenda
> 
> <http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/leag2009/presentations/index.shtml>,
>      November 16-19, 2009.
>    * Lunar Petrographic Educational Thin Section Set <
>      http://www-curator.jsc.nasa.gov/lunar/letss/contents.cfm>.
>    * Lunar Sample Atlas <http://www.lpi.usra.edu/lunar/samples/atlas/>.
>    * Lunar Sample Compendium <
>      http://www-curator.jsc.nasa.gov/lunar/compendium.cfm>.
>    * Moon Archive <../Archive/Archive-Moon.html> articles from
>      Planetary Science Research Discoveries.
>    * Rocks and Soils from the Moon
>      <http://www-curator.jsc.nasa.gov/lunar/index.cfm>, website from
>      Astromaterials Curation, NASA Johnson Space Center.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 13:09:19 -0800
> From: "Mike Bandli" <fuzzfoot at comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Paris, France CM Meteorite
> To: "'Phil Morgan'" <roxfromspace at gmail.com>,
> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Message-ID: <43B42043ECAA4EA2BF8D8B149B447050 at Bandli1>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Several list members emailed me privately regarding the "Nova" series of
> meteorites, whose localities are either unknown or questionable. Learn
> something new everyday :)
>
> -----------------------------------
> Mike Bandli
> Historic Meteorites
> www.HistoricMeteorites.com
> IMCA?#5765
> -----------------------------------------------
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Phil Morgan [mailto:roxfromspace at gmail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 12:47 PM
> To: Ted Bunch
> Cc: Mike Bandli; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Paris, France CM Meteorite
>
> And other like Lafayette are quite vague as well.  But are there
> others that don't even have a home country?
>
> Phil
>
> On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 1:23 PM, Ted Bunch <tbear1 at cableone.net> wrote:
>> Not really - consider LA001 002, that supposedly came from a California
>> desert, but not LA.
>>
>> Ted
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12/22/09 11:50 AM, "Mike Bandli" <fuzzfoot at comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>> An interesting read for the Paris CM meteorite:
>>>
>>> http://tinyurl.com/y9s6wge
>>>
>>> Interestingly, I believe it is the first meteorite officially classified
>>> with no locality.
>>>
>>> -----------------------------------
>>> Mike Bandli
>>> Historic Meteorites
>>> www.HistoricMeteorites.com
>>> IMCA?#5765
>>> -----------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 14:40:04 -0800 (PST)
> From: Abdelaziz Alhyane <abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] be carful
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Message-ID: <521159.9211.qm at web45413.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Dear list members,
>  A fake youtube virus is going around, i got the message from two people, 
> the logo looks different and I did not open the video.
> the message is : x syas that you should see this video.
>
> Anyone else got that message?
>
> Best regards
> Aziz
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>
> End of Meteorite-list Digest, Vol 75, Issue 54
> ********************************************** 



From mrmeteorite at gmail.com  Tue Dec 22 23:03:13 2009
From: mrmeteorite at gmail.com (Ruben Garcia)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 21:03:13 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] A Rare Arizona Meteorite Find - VIDEO
Message-ID: <80659e1a0912222003q35287a71m24a77e7a46537355@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I just got around to posting the video of my "Rare" Arizona Meteorite
find! My Son (Ruben Jr) filmed me as I discovered my most unique
meteorite ever. Both he and Hopper were along since we were just
returning from filming an episode of "Meteorite Men" with Geoff Notkin
and Steve Arnold.

The video goes from the dry lake bed where it was found to cutting the
stone to the classification process in about 4 minutes. It is short
and to the point.

Here it is on my site:
http://www.mr-meteorite.net

or here on youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfjdhqbnoxU

-- 
Rock On!

Ruben Garcia

Website: http://www.mr-meteorite.net
Articles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/
Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=meteorfright#p/u


From mexicodoug at aim.com  Tue Dec 22 22:58:51 2009
From: mexicodoug at aim.com (Mexicodoug)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 22:58:51 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Paris, France CM Meteorite
In-Reply-To: <C75678EE.FD46%tbear1@cableone.net>
Message-ID: <8CC519B5F2EB7D8-35A8-12246@webmail-d097.sysops.aol.com>

Ted is absolutely right. These aren't isolated cases. It goes back 
much, much earlier than that, too. Besides the Indiana Martian from the 
1930's found in a drawer, consider the cases of Zacatecas (1792), or, 
Durango (1800's) supposedly from Chihuahua, or jejeje - how about 
Tucson's own epic opera story (the Ring) ... also, did you know there 
is one official Iron named "California" which has worse locality info 
than Coahuila ... The fight has come a long way but history seems to 
repeat itself every now and then ...

Holiday Cheers
Doug


-----Original Message-----
From: Ted Bunch <tbear1 at cableone.net>
To: Mike Bandli <fuzzfoot at comcast.net>; 
meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Tue, Dec 22, 2009 2:23 pm
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Paris, France CM Meteorite


Not really - consider LA001 002, that supposedly came from a California
desert, but not LA.

Ted



On 12/22/09 11:50 AM, "Mike Bandli" <fuzzfoot at comcast.net> wrote:

> An interesting read for the Paris CM meteorite:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/y9s6wge
>
> Interestingly, I believe it is the first meteorite officially 
classified
> with no locality.
>
> -----------------------------------
> Mike Bandli
> Historic Meteorites
> www.HistoricMeteorites.com
> IMCA?#5765
> -----------------------------------
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


From minador at yahoo.com  Tue Dec 22 23:20:36 2009
From: minador at yahoo.com (Mark Bowling)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 20:20:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] A Rare Arizona Meteorite Find - VIDEO
In-Reply-To: <80659e1a0912222003q35287a71m24a77e7a46537355@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <470261.19220.qm@web54503.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Pretty awesome Ruben!  Are those green crystals olivine?  I hope you've found something completely new!

Mark B.
Vail, AZ

--- On Tue, 12/22/09, Ruben Garcia <mrmeteorite at gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Ruben Garcia <mrmeteorite at gmail.com>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] A Rare Arizona Meteorite Find - VIDEO
> To: "Meteorite List" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Date: Tuesday, December 22, 2009, 9:03 PM
> Hi all,
> 
> I just got around to posting the video of my "Rare" Arizona
> Meteorite
> find! My Son (Ruben Jr) filmed me as I discovered my most
> unique
> meteorite ever. Both he and Hopper were along since we were
> just
> returning from filming an episode of "Meteorite Men" with
> Geoff Notkin
> and Steve Arnold.
> 
> The video goes from the dry lake bed where it was found to
> cutting the
> stone to the classification process in about 4 minutes. It
> is short
> and to the point.
> 
> Here it is on my site:
> http://www.mr-meteorite.net
> 
> or here on youtube:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfjdhqbnoxU
> 
> -- 
> Rock On!
> 
> Ruben Garcia
> 
> Website: http://www.mr-meteorite.net
> Articles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/
> Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=meteorfright#p/u
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


From bolidechaser at yahoo.com  Tue Dec 22 23:17:17 2009
From: bolidechaser at yahoo.com (Robert Verish)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 20:17:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Paris, France CM Meteorite
Message-ID: <935331.40013.qm@web51706.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

There was a question raised on this thread whether there are other classified meteorites that don't even have a home country for a locality? 

The answer is, "Yes!"  
By definition that is how the 9 "Unknowns" are defined (see Carl's previous post which lists the 9 other "Unknowns).

Now to clear-up some other mis-information:  You'll notice that Lafayette and Los Angeles are not on this "list of 9", so they are unrelated to a discussion about "unknown localities".  I can't speak for Lafayette, but I sure can speak for Los Angeles.  I can tell you that the problem with LA started 10 years ago.  It all started with a simple mis-wording in the Met. Bulletin description:
"The specimens may have been collected ~20 years ago in the Mojave Desert",
should have been written as:
"... were collected in the California Mojave Desert possibly as many as 20 years ago."

So, for the benefit of those who are recent to this List, or in the past have been mis-informed, or are just overly impressionable to innuendo,  rumors and the continual yammering on this List, allow me to make this clear one more time:

I, Bob Verish, am the finder of the Los Angeles Meteorite and there is no question as to its locality - it was found in the California Mojave Desert.

P.S. - Here's a good trivia question:
What are the coordinates for the Lafayette (stone)?

------------------------------------------
[meteorite-list] Paris, France CM Meteorite
cdtucson at cox.net cdtucson at cox.net
Tue Dec 22 15:35:09 EST 2009

Mike,
Plus these other nine listed right on the Paris info page.
Name Status Year Place Type Mass MetBull GoogleEarth
??Map all ? Notes
9 records found for meteorites from (unknown) with names that contain "*"
(click on a name for more information; click in header to sort)
Asarco Mexicana Official (unknown) Iron, IIIAB
Nova 006 Provisional (unknown) Unknown 70 g
Nova 007 Provisional (unknown) Unknown 12 g
Nova 008 Official <1972 (unknown) L6 4.2 kg 93
Nova 009 Official <1972 (unknown) H4 7.3 kg 93
Paneth's Iron ** Official 1873 (unknown) Iron, IIIE 150 kg 53
Paris ** Official 2001 (unknown) CM 1370 g 97?
Rio Bunge Official (unknown) L 11 g
Smithsonian Iron Official 1881 (unknown) Iron, IIAB 3.51 kg
Carl
-- 
Carl or Debbie Esparza
Meteoritemax

----

> On 12/22/09 11:50 AM, "Mike Bandli" <fuzzfoot at comcast.net> wrote:
>
> An interesting read for the Paris CM meteorite:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/y9s6wge
>
> Interestingly, I believe it is the first meteorite officially 
> classified with no locality.
>
> -----------------------------------
> Mike Bandli


From mrmeteorite at gmail.com  Tue Dec 22 23:24:13 2009
From: mrmeteorite at gmail.com (Ruben Garcia)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 21:24:13 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] A Rare Arizona Meteorite Find - VIDEO
In-Reply-To: <470261.19220.qm@web54503.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <80659e1a0912222003q35287a71m24a77e7a46537355@mail.gmail.com>
	<470261.19220.qm@web54503.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <80659e1a0912222024l4505be88id0bfc52c9801cfb2@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Mark!

We're still not sure what it is... the crystals are mostly pyroxene.

On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 9:20 PM, Mark Bowling <minador at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Pretty awesome Ruben! ?Are those green crystals olivine? ?I hope you've found something completely new!
>
> Mark B.
> Vail, AZ
>
> --- On Tue, 12/22/09, Ruben Garcia <mrmeteorite at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> From: Ruben Garcia <mrmeteorite at gmail.com>
>> Subject: [meteorite-list] A Rare Arizona Meteorite Find - VIDEO
>> To: "Meteorite List" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>> Date: Tuesday, December 22, 2009, 9:03 PM
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I just got around to posting the video of my "Rare" Arizona
>> Meteorite
>> find! My Son (Ruben Jr) filmed me as I discovered my most
>> unique
>> meteorite ever. Both he and Hopper were along since we were
>> just
>> returning from filming an episode of "Meteorite Men" with
>> Geoff Notkin
>> and Steve Arnold.
>>
>> The video goes from the dry lake bed where it was found to
>> cutting the
>> stone to the classification process in about 4 minutes. It
>> is short
>> and to the point.
>>
>> Here it is on my site:
>> http://www.mr-meteorite.net
>>
>> or here on youtube:
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfjdhqbnoxU
>>
>> --
>> Rock On!
>>
>> Ruben Garcia
>>
>> Website: http://www.mr-meteorite.net
>> Articles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/
>> Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=meteorfright#p/u
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>



-- 
Rock On!

Ruben Garcia

Website: http://www.mr-meteorite.net
Articles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/
Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=meteorfright#p/u


From dave at fallingrocks.com  Wed Dec 23 00:04:55 2009
From: dave at fallingrocks.com (Dave Gheesling)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 00:04:55 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Whetstone monograph thanks & availability
Message-ID: <424442A29DD0405C9E72D381154D3997@meteorroom>

Hello All,

Thanks much for the many kind off- and on-list words regarding the Whetstone
Mountains monograph.  It's great to know several of them have already been
received in good order and that the read was worth the while.  FYI, domestic
orders were shipped on Saturday, and international orders were shipped this
week.

A six-page addendum was added to the monograph before shipment,
incorporating the few additional recoveries since the original was
completed.  As it stands now, the average time on the ground per recovery
has increased from over 60 hours to something approaching 90, but the
mapping effort continues nonetheless.

I've received many inquiries as to the current availability of the
monograph.  The Limited Edition of 97 copies, signed and numbered by Jack
Schrader, sold out in less than a day, but un-signed/numbered copies can be
found for those interested at
http://www.fallingrocks.com/Collections/WhetstoneMountains.htm by clicking
the link at the top of my Whetstone Mountains collection page.  The price of
the monograph is $24.95 to the general public, but orders received with "met
list" in the comments box will be reduced to $19.95 plus shipping.

Also, we held out one Limited Edition set -- #83 of 97 -- and have just
posted it as a one-time-only listing on eBay.  Not every meteorite collector
is a subscriber to this list, so we wanted to be sure other collectors were
aware of the recovery and documentation.  This listing can be found at
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180448321242

Thanks again for the warm reception, and Happy Holidays to all!

Dave

Dave Gheesling
IMCA #5967
www.fallingrocks.com 



From pgspears at cox.net  Wed Dec 23 00:12:11 2009
From: pgspears at cox.net (Paul  G. Spears)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 22:12:11 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Merry Christmas!
Message-ID: <5780881F23B842208C4DDF2F8177ABF6@GrandpasNetbook>

Hi, listees:

Merry Christmas and a happy new year all year long to everyone!

Baby Jesus, Son of God, creator of the universe, giver of life, the 
Redeemer, and the Reason for the Season!  Let's celebrate His love for all 
mankind during this CHRISTmas.  Each meteor I see, each meteorite I hold, 
and each colorful microphotograph of a thin slice reminds me of His coming 
to earth, His incarnation on the earth he created, and His plan for a new 
heaven and a new earth.

Keep looking up!

Paul 



From countdeiro at earthlink.net  Wed Dec 23 00:19:31 2009
From: countdeiro at earthlink.net (countdeiro at earthlink.net)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 00:19:31 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite kills man. Hollywood style.
Message-ID: <13832152.1261545571824.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net>


Hello List,
I don't think this has been posted, if so I apologize. I do like the smoke ring though.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=9cf_1261465627

Count Deiro


From cynapse at charter.net  Wed Dec 23 00:40:33 2009
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 00:40:33 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Generally plesant cluster of holidays commerating
	the Winter Solstice!
In-Reply-To: <5780881F23B842208C4DDF2F8177ABF6@GrandpasNetbook>
References: <5780881F23B842208C4DDF2F8177ABF6@GrandpasNetbook>
Message-ID: <57b3j5du681td7a9pdjs76fhbs6e6iegnf@4ax.com>

Pick your favored culture and/or religion from the list!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_solstice#Observances


From geeg48 at msn.com  Wed Dec 23 00:58:43 2009
From: geeg48 at msn.com (GREG LINDH)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 22:58:43 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] A Rare Arizona Meteorite Find - VIDEO
In-Reply-To: <80659e1a0912222003q35287a71m24a77e7a46537355@mail.gmail.com>
References: <80659e1a0912222003q35287a71m24a77e7a46537355@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU125-W217499CB4E582D45547CAC9800@phx.gbl>


 
    Hey Ruben,
 
  Thanks for that video.  For a novice like me it was very instructive.  By watching the video, I got to see the process behind identifying a meteorite, plus I got to see how important it is to know some of right people, like Geoff, Steve, Marvin Kilgore and others at ASU.  Very instructive....thanks again.
 
  Greg Lindh  
 
 
 

> Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 21:03:13 -0700
> From: mrmeteorite at gmail.com
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: [meteorite-list] A Rare Arizona Meteorite Find - VIDEO
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I just got around to posting the video of my "Rare" Arizona Meteorite
> find! My Son (Ruben Jr) filmed me as I discovered my most unique
> meteorite ever. Both he and Hopper were along since we were just
> returning from filming an episode of "Meteorite Men" with Geoff Notkin
> and Steve Arnold.
> 
> The video goes from the dry lake bed where it was found to cutting the
> stone to the classification process in about 4 minutes. It is short
> and to the point.
> 
> Here it is on my site:
> http://www.mr-meteorite.net
> 
> or here on youtube:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfjdhqbnoxU
> 
> -- 
> Rock On!
> 
> Ruben Garcia
> 
> Website: http://www.mr-meteorite.net
> Articles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/
> Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=meteorfright#p/u
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 		 	   		  

From stanleygregr at hotmail.com  Wed Dec 23 01:00:51 2009
From: stanleygregr at hotmail.com (Greg Stanley)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 22:00:51 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] A Rare Arizona Meteorite Find - VIDEO
In-Reply-To: <80659e1a0912222003q35287a71m24a77e7a46537355@mail.gmail.com>
References: <80659e1a0912222003q35287a71m24a77e7a46537355@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SNT117-W17F83F0580512781A88BDAD2800@phx.gbl>


Rubin:
 
Very nicely done. Again. congrats on your find.
 
Greg S.

----------------------------------------
> Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 21:03:13 -0700
> From: mrmeteorite at gmail.com
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: [meteorite-list] A Rare Arizona Meteorite Find - VIDEO
>
> Hi all,
>
> I just got around to posting the video of my "Rare" Arizona Meteorite
> find! My Son (Ruben Jr) filmed me as I discovered my most unique
> meteorite ever. Both he and Hopper were along since we were just
> returning from filming an episode of "Meteorite Men" with Geoff Notkin
> and Steve Arnold.
>
> The video goes from the dry lake bed where it was found to cutting the
> stone to the classification process in about 4 minutes. It is short
> and to the point.
>
> Here it is on my site:
> http://www.mr-meteorite.net
>
> or here on youtube:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfjdhqbnoxU
>
> --
> Rock On!
>
> Ruben Garcia
>
> Website: http://www.mr-meteorite.net
> Articles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/
> Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=meteorfright#p/u
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141665/direct/01/

From geeg48 at msn.com  Wed Dec 23 01:04:02 2009
From: geeg48 at msn.com (GREG LINDH)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 23:04:02 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Merry Christmas!
In-Reply-To: <5780881F23B842208C4DDF2F8177ABF6@GrandpasNetbook>
References: <5780881F23B842208C4DDF2F8177ABF6@GrandpasNetbook>
Message-ID: <BLU125-W283BC71C2A6C235D7B945C9800@phx.gbl>


 
  Merry Christmas, Paul!
 
  
  Greg
 


----------------------------------------
> From: pgspears at cox.net
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 22:12:11 -0700
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Merry Christmas!
>
> Hi, listees:
>
> Merry Christmas and a happy new year all year long to everyone!
>
> Baby Jesus, Son of God, creator of the universe, giver of life, the
> Redeemer, and the Reason for the Season! Let's celebrate His love for all
> mankind during this CHRISTmas. Each meteor I see, each meteorite I hold,
> and each colorful microphotograph of a thin slice reminds me of His coming
> to earth, His incarnation on the earth he created, and His plan for a new
> heaven and a new earth.
>
> Keep looking up!
>
> Paul
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 		 	   		  

From meteoritekid at gmail.com  Wed Dec 23 01:15:26 2009
From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 22:15:26 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Merry Christmas!
In-Reply-To: <5780881F23B842208C4DDF2F8177ABF6@GrandpasNetbook>
References: <5780881F23B842208C4DDF2F8177ABF6@GrandpasNetbook>
Message-ID: <93aaac890912222215t3f2e10ebq9cabf778889918ba@mail.gmail.com>

I know, it was probably intended in good taste, etc, but...this is a
meteorite list.
Keep religion off it, please.  Some of us don't believe (or are
Jewish, Muslim, etc), and while I appreciate your sentiments, this is
rather out of place.  I don't go around wishing people a merry
Chrsitmas 'sans god' because I know how people who believe will take
it.  Please offer all of us the same courtesy.
Happy Holidays,
Jason

On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 9:12 PM, Paul  G. Spears <pgspears at cox.net> wrote:
> Hi, listees:
>
> Merry Christmas and a happy new year all year long to everyone!
>
> Baby Jesus, Son of God, creator of the universe, giver of life, the
> Redeemer, and the Reason for the Season! ?Let's celebrate His love for all
> mankind during this CHRISTmas. ?Each meteor I see, each meteorite I hold,
> and each colorful microphotograph of a thin slice reminds me of His coming
> to earth, His incarnation on the earth he created, and His plan for a new
> heaven and a new earth.
>
> Keep looking up!
>
> Paul
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


From lintonius at earthlink.net  Wed Dec 23 01:18:07 2009
From: lintonius at earthlink.net (Linton Rohr)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 22:18:07 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite kills man. Hollywood style.
References: <13832152.1261545571824.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <7C33FFB0418844EA94268BF446E12655@D190TH71>

Count,
Ruben posted that on the 8th, via you-tube, but no harm in seeing it again.
I think that was shot just down the block. I missed the bolide though. :^(
I agree...the smoke ring was the best part! <g>
May your holiday parties conclude more successfully.
Linton

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <countdeiro at earthlink.net>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 9:19 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite kills man. Hollywood style.


>
> Hello List,
> I don't think this has been posted, if so I apologize. I do like the smoke 
> ring though.
>
> http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=9cf_1261465627
>
> Count Deiro
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 



From erikfwebb at msn.com  Wed Dec 23 02:43:52 2009
From: erikfwebb at msn.com (Erik Fisler)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 00:43:52 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Merry Christmas!
In-Reply-To: <93aaac890912222215t3f2e10ebq9cabf778889918ba@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5780881F23B842208C4DDF2F8177ABF6@GrandpasNetbook>,
	<93aaac890912222215t3f2e10ebq9cabf778889918ba@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <COL119-W53011578F2BA985A80C7A4A4800@phx.gbl>


Merry Christmas Paul.? Happy quanza Jason...? ;)

[Erik]

> Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 22:15:26 -0800
> From: meteoritekid at gmail.com
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Merry Christmas!
> 
> I know, it was probably intended in good taste, etc, but...this is a
> meteorite list.
> Keep religion off it, please.  Some of us don't believe (or are
> Jewish, Muslim, etc), and while I appreciate your sentiments, this is
> rather out of place.  I don't go around wishing people a merry
> Chrsitmas 'sans god' because I know how people who believe will take
> it.  Please offer all of us the same courtesy.
> Happy Holidays,
> Jason
> 
> On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 9:12 PM, Paul  G. Spears <pgspears at cox.net> wrote:
>> Hi, listees:
>>
>> Merry Christmas and a happy new year all year long to everyone!
>>
>> Baby Jesus, Son of God, creator of the universe, giver of life, the
>> Redeemer, and the Reason for the Season! ?Let's celebrate His love for all
>> mankind during this CHRISTmas. ?Each meteor I see, each meteorite I hold,
>> and each colorful microphotograph of a thin slice reminds me of His coming
>> to earth, His incarnation on the earth he created, and His plan for a new
>> heaven and a new earth.
>>
>> Keep looking up!
>>
>> Paul
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
 		 	   		  

From mexicodoug at aim.com  Wed Dec 23 05:01:26 2009
From: mexicodoug at aim.com (Mexicodoug)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 05:01:26 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Paris, France CM Meteorite
In-Reply-To: <935331.40013.qm@web51706.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <935331.40013.qm@web51706.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8CC51CE039890BB-26BC-3C83C@webmail-m053.sysops.aol.com>

Bob wrote:

"What are the coordinates for the Lafayette (stone)?"

Hi Bob, they are the coordinates of the Purdue University Earth 
Sciences Department where Farrington found the Lafayette nakhlite in a 
drawer in the geology department (1931). No doubt you can speak for Los 
Angeles. The question depends upon choosing your rigorous definition of 
exactly what constitutes a locality that we can agree upon (yeah, 
right).

The locality of the Lafayette oriented stone would seem not to be 
known, and just to be another one of those cute reputed yarns - some 
African-American guy found it supposedly somewhere, and dug it out of a 
hole and then he disappeared after later giving it to Purdue. It 
appears not even known for sure whether it was found in Indiana. So 
that makes it a transported meteorite, right?

Best wishes
Doug


-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Verish <bolidechaser at yahoo.com>
To: Meteorite-list Meteoritecentral 
<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Tue, Dec 22, 2009 10:17 pm
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Paris, France CM Meteorite


There was a question raised on this thread whether there are other 
classified
meteorites that don't even have a home country for a locality?

The answer is, "Yes!"
By definition that is how the 9 "Unknowns" are defined (see Carl's 
previous post
which lists the 9 other "Unknowns).

Now to clear-up some other mis-information: You'll notice that 
Lafayette and
Los Angeles are not on this "list of 9", so they are unrelated to a 
discussion
about "unknown localities". I can't speak for Lafayette, but I sure can 
speak
for Los Angeles. I can tell you that the problem with LA started 10 
years ago.
It all started with a simple mis-wording in the Met. Bulletin 
description:
"The specimens may have been collected ~20 years ago in the Mojave 
Desert",
should have been written as:
"... were collected in the California Mojave Desert possibly as many as 
20 years
ago."

So, for the benefit of those who are recent to this List, or in the 
past have
been mis-informed, or are just overly impressionable to innuendo, 
rumors and
the continual yammering on this List, allow me to make this clear one 
more time:

I, Bob Verish, am the finder of the Los Angeles Meteorite and there is 
no
question as to its locality - it was found in the California Mojave 
Desert.

P.S. - Here's a good trivia question:
What are the coordinates for the Lafayette (stone)?

------------------------------------------
[meteorite-list] Paris, France CM Meteorite
cdtucson at cox.net cdtucson at cox.net
Tue Dec 22 15:35:09 EST 2009

Mike,
Plus these other nine listed right on the Paris info page.
Name Status Year Place Type Mass MetBull GoogleEarth
??Map all ? Notes
9 records found for meteorites from (unknown) with names that contain 
"*"
(click on a name for more information; click in header to sort)
Asarco Mexicana Official (unknown) Iron, IIIAB
Nova 006 Provisional (unknown) Unknown 70 g
Nova 007 Provisional (unknown) Unknown 12 g
Nova 008 Official <1972 (unknown) L6 4.2 kg 93
Nova 009 Official <1972 (unknown) H4 7.3 kg 93
Paneth's Iron ** Official 1873 (unknown) Iron, IIIE 150 kg 53
Paris ** Official 2001 (unknown) CM 1370 g 97?
Rio Bunge Official (unknown) L 11 g
Smithsonian Iron Official 1881 (unknown) Iron, IIAB 3.51 kg
Carl
--
Carl or Debbie Esparza
Meteoritemax

----

> On 12/22/09 11:50 AM, "Mike Bandli" <fuzzfoot at comcast.net> wrote:
>
> An interesting read for the Paris CM meteorite:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/y9s6wge
>
> Interestingly, I believe it is the first meteorite officially
> classified with no locality.
>
> -----------------------------------
> Mike Bandli
______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


From ensoramanda at ntlworld.com  Wed Dec 23 06:41:59 2009
From: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com (ensoramanda at ntlworld.com)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 11:41:59 +0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] A Rare Arizona Meteorite Find - VIDEO
In-Reply-To: <80659e1a0912222003q35287a71m24a77e7a46537355@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091223114159.SPG4N.617359.root@web06-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com>

Excellent video Ruben...really enjoyed that. Looking forward to finding out what the classification is...really unusual find...congratulations.

Also can't wait to see the Meteorite Men shows when I can find a way of getting them here in the USA. Heading to Tucson again this year so see you all there in a few weeks....meanwhile hope you and all have a great festive season.

Graham...from a snowy UK

PS...anyone got a strewnfield map of Holbrook that they are willing to share/advice about visiting there as it is on our list this year...weather permitting! Someone at the last Tucson show gave me a sketch map but unfortunately I seem to have mislaid that!!

---- Ruben Garcia <mrmeteorite at gmail.com> wrote: 
> Hi all,
> 
> I just got around to posting the video of my "Rare" Arizona Meteorite
> find! My Son (Ruben Jr) filmed me as I discovered my most unique
> meteorite ever. Both he and Hopper were along since we were just
> returning from filming an episode of "Meteorite Men" with Geoff Notkin
> and Steve Arnold.
> 
> The video goes from the dry lake bed where it was found to cutting the
> stone to the classification process in about 4 minutes. It is short
> and to the point.
> 
> Here it is on my site:
> http://www.mr-meteorite.net
> 
> or here on youtube:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfjdhqbnoxU
> 
> -- 
> Rock On!
> 
> Ruben Garcia
> 
> Website: http://www.mr-meteorite.net
> Articles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/
> Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=meteorfright#p/u
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From minador at yahoo.com  Wed Dec 23 08:08:37 2009
From: minador at yahoo.com (Mark Bowling)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 05:08:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Merry Christmas!
In-Reply-To: <COL119-W53011578F2BA985A80C7A4A4800@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <229206.41296.qm@web54505.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

And there's Festivus for the rest of us!

Merry Christmas & Happy Hanukkah

Hoping a nice, big fat meteorite smashes your snowman display this year! (or your Santer?a chicken coop if you rather, NOT harming the birds mind you...).

Mark B.
Vail, AZ

--- On Wed, 12/23/09, Erik Fisler <erikfwebb at msn.com> wrote:

> From: Erik Fisler <erikfwebb at msn.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Merry Christmas!
> To: "meteorite-list" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Date: Wednesday, December 23, 2009, 12:43 AM
> 
> Merry Christmas Paul.? Happy quanza Jason...? ;)
> 
> [Erik]
> 
> > Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 22:15:26 -0800
> > From: meteoritekid at gmail.com
> > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Merry Christmas!
> > 
> > I know, it was probably intended in good taste, etc,
> but...this is a
> > meteorite list.
> > Keep religion off it, please.? Some of us don't
> believe (or are
> > Jewish, Muslim, etc), and while I appreciate your
> sentiments, this is
> > rather out of place.? I don't go around wishing
> people a merry
> > Chrsitmas 'sans god' because I know how people who
> believe will take
> > it.? Please offer all of us the same courtesy.
> > Happy Holidays,
> > Jason
> > 
> > On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 9:12 PM, Paul? G. Spears
> <pgspears at cox.net>
> wrote:
> >> Hi, listees:
> >>
> >> Merry Christmas and a happy new year all year long
> to everyone!
> >>
> >> Baby Jesus, Son of God, creator of the universe,
> giver of life, the
> >> Redeemer, and the Reason for the Season! ?Let's
> celebrate His love for all
> >> mankind during this CHRISTmas. ?Each meteor I
> see, each meteorite I hold,
> >> and each colorful microphotograph of a thin slice
> reminds me of His coming
> >> to earth, His incarnation on the earth he created,
> and His plan for a new
> >> heaven and a new earth.
> >>
> >> Keep looking up!
> >>
> >> Paul
> >> ______________________________________________
> >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> >> Meteorite-list mailing list
> >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >>
> > ______________________________________________
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>  ???
> ????????
> ?????? ???
> ? 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Wed Dec 23 08:13:39 2009
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 08:13:39 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Merry Christmas!
In-Reply-To: <229206.41296.qm@web54505.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <COL119-W53011578F2BA985A80C7A4A4800@phx.gbl>
	<229206.41296.qm@web54505.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <e51421550912230513j485a1534y324565165ca4f5dd@mail.gmail.com>

Happy Festivus!

May your Festivus pole be free of distracting tinsel and may you pin
your child during the Feats of Strength.

Now, I will begin the annual airing of grievances in which I will
announce all of the ways you people have disappointed me in the last
year.  ;)

Best regards and happy holidays (whichever ones you celebrate, if any.),

MikeG


On 12/23/09, Mark Bowling <minador at yahoo.com> wrote:
> And there's Festivus for the rest of us!
>
> Merry Christmas & Happy Hanukkah
>
> Hoping a nice, big fat meteorite smashes your snowman display this year! (or
> your Santer?a chicken coop if you rather, NOT harming the birds mind
> you...).
>
> Mark B.
> Vail, AZ
>
> --- On Wed, 12/23/09, Erik Fisler <erikfwebb at msn.com> wrote:
>
>> From: Erik Fisler <erikfwebb at msn.com>
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Merry Christmas!
>> To: "meteorite-list" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>> Date: Wednesday, December 23, 2009, 12:43 AM
>>
>> Merry Christmas Paul.  Happy quanza Jason...  ;)
>>
>> [Erik]
>>
>> > Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 22:15:26 -0800
>> > From: meteoritekid at gmail.com
>> > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Merry Christmas!
>> >
>> > I know, it was probably intended in good taste, etc,
>> but...this is a
>> > meteorite list.
>> > Keep religion off it, please.  Some of us don't
>> believe (or are
>> > Jewish, Muslim, etc), and while I appreciate your
>> sentiments, this is
>> > rather out of place.  I don't go around wishing
>> people a merry
>> > Chrsitmas 'sans god' because I know how people who
>> believe will take
>> > it.  Please offer all of us the same courtesy.
>> > Happy Holidays,
>> > Jason
>> >
>> > On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 9:12 PM, Paul  G. Spears
>> <pgspears at cox.net>
>> wrote:
>> >> Hi, listees:
>> >>
>> >> Merry Christmas and a happy new year all year long
>> to everyone!
>> >>
>> >> Baby Jesus, Son of God, creator of the universe,
>> giver of life, the
>> >> Redeemer, and the Reason for the Season!  Let's
>> celebrate His love for all
>> >> mankind during this CHRISTmas.  Each meteor I
>> see, each meteorite I hold,
>> >> and each colorful microphotograph of a thin slice
>> reminds me of His coming
>> >> to earth, His incarnation on the earth he created,
>> and His plan for a new
>> >> heaven and a new earth.
>> >>
>> >> Keep looking up!
>> >>
>> >> Paul
>> >> ______________________________________________
>> >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> >> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> >>
>> > ______________________________________________
>> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> > Meteorite-list mailing list
>> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


-- 
.........................................................
Michael Gilmer (Florida, USA)
Member of the Meteoritical Society.
Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com
FaceBook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale
Twitter - Twitter - http://twitter.com/GalacticStone
eBay - http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/maypickle
..........................................................


From dmerchan at rochester.rr.com  Wed Dec 23 08:59:59 2009
From: dmerchan at rochester.rr.com (Don Merchant)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 08:59:59 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] be carful
References: <319573.20261.qm@web45414.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <001101ca83d8$3792e9b0$6401a8c0@donaldmerchant>

Too LATE! I opened up and watched the video. It showed this large dark ring 
and then said in 7 minutes I will have a near miss with death. Sure enough 
as I was crouched tightly in the far corner of my basement under a steel 
work bench with a fire extinguisher, flashlight and a very realistic loaded 
colt 45 pellet gun nervously waiting for the 7th minute to pass, when all of 
a sudden this huge crash about 30 feet above my head shakes my house so 
violently I accidentally squirted my self in the face with the powder type 
extinguisher! I knew it could not be Santa and his deer crash landing on my 
roof, since Christmas is still days away. As I stayed put with my ears wide 
open I listened all through the house. Not a creature was stirring not even 
a mouse! Waiting till the 9th minute just to be on the safe side I finally 
creped up the stairs to see why the hell snow was falling from my kitchen 
ceiling! As I looked up through my kitchen then through the bedroom and a 
straight shot to the attic, I can see that Santa did not use the chimney 
this time! That son of #$%!* is FAAAAsssssst here and gone in a New York 
minute and early no less. I missed him again. As I looked at the mess on the 
kitchen floor I could see that Santa left my Xmas present. I know I was bad 
this year. Sure enough Santa did too. He left me grapefruit size piece of 
charcoal with a bunch of smaller pieces scattered all around. Kind of looks 
like a carbonaceous chondrite. Boy I knew I should not of opened and watched 
that video. Anything to ruin my Xmas. Let me know what happens to any of you 
after you watch that video.
Wishing all of you a wonderful, safe and most memorable holidays.
Sincerely
Don Merchant
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Abdelaziz Alhyane" <abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com>
To: "meteoritecentral" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>; "Gary Chase" 
<garychase at live.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 5:53 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] be carful


The first person I got it from, I hope it's not # effective virus.
Just don't open the video, who knows.
Aziz

--- On Tue, 12/22/09, Gary Chase <garychase at live.com> wrote:

> From: Gary Chase <garychase at live.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] be carful
> To: "meteoritecentral" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Date: Tuesday, December 22, 2009, 2:46 PM
>
> I got it too. The email came from habibi abdelazi.
>
> Gary
>
>
> > Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 14:40:04 -0800
> > From: abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com
> > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > Subject: [meteorite-list] be carful
> >
> > Dear list members,
> > A fake youtube virus is going around, i got the
> message from two people, the logo looks different and I did
> not open the video.
> > the message is : x syas that you should see this
> video.
> >
> > Anyone else got that message?
> >
> > Best regards
> > Aziz
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ______________________________________________
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141665/direct/01/
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>




______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From mrmeteorite at gmail.com  Wed Dec 23 09:10:24 2009
From: mrmeteorite at gmail.com (Ruben Garcia)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 07:10:24 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] A Rare Arizona Meteorite Find - VIDEO
In-Reply-To: <BLU125-W217499CB4E582D45547CAC9800@phx.gbl>
References: <80659e1a0912222003q35287a71m24a77e7a46537355@mail.gmail.com>
	<BLU125-W217499CB4E582D45547CAC9800@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <80659e1a0912230610s400c9c0eu50bd987ad888ec67@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks to everyone for the youtube views over the last two years -
nearly 400,000 total!

Greg S. and Greg L,
It is important to have good friends in the business. It was great fun
filming with Geoff and Steve. They were very gracious to have invited
me to be on their show. Obviously, they don't need me and just did so
because we are good friends.

Marvin Killgore (U of A) and Laurence Garvie (ASU) have never said no
when I've asked for a favor. Both are just great guys!


Graham, keep in touch and I can help with Holbrook. Maybe we can set
up a group hunt during the Tucson show?

Rock On!

Ruben Garcia

Website: http://www.mr-meteorite.net
Articles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/
Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=meteorfright#p/u


From geohiggins at yahoo.com  Wed Dec 23 10:01:04 2009
From: geohiggins at yahoo.com (John higgins)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 07:01:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Merry Christmas ! Harvey Nininger Signed book
	ending today! AD
Message-ID: <25535.51499.qm@web63202.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

Merry Christmas all my meteorite friends! Harvey Nininger Signed book ending today! AD
?
Hello, first of all i would like to wish you all a very warm, Happy?Merry Christmas, lets make it a great one this year!

I have some auctions ending today and tomorrow on E-bay
?
First on the Agenda is Harvey Nininger Autographed book, it's an original from 1952 that I purchased from the owner in Leipzig, Germany. Book is in great shape, just little wear and tear on the top and bottom of jacket.
There is a reserve, but to be honest, I think it's super?low considering it took me my whole life to find this one, and it's the only one I was ever able to acquire. Not only did he sign, but he even dated this book! making it incredibly rare, and who else in the world can say they own a original?book signed by the greatest meteorite researcher in history, and he signed it twice! First in blue ink, then went over it again in black ink?to make sure it would?stand the test of time, and?on the specific date?May 21, 1952. Simply one of a kind.
Also express shipping is?free of course!
Just a little side note of events that happened on this day in history:
Famous people born on May 21st
427 BC?Plato (philosopher)
1427 Albrecht Durer?(painter, engraver, mathematician)
1688 Alexander Pope (poet)
1844 Henri Rosseau (artist)
1917 Raymond Burr (actor)
1921 Andre Sakharov (physicist, human rights activist)
1951 Al Franken (comedian)
1952 Mr T. (actor)
1956 Judge Reinhold (actor)
1972 Notorious BIG (rapper)
Another thing:
1881 American Red Cross established.
1927 Charles Lindbergh completes the first solo flight across the Atlantic

?
If you are interested you can find the auction here:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Harvey-Nininger-autographed-book-Out-of-the-sky-1952_W0QQitemZ380190630961QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item588520a431

?
And I also?have Unclassified NWA meteorites ending tomorrow, all with free shipping, currently all under cost!
You can find them?in my e-bay?store Outer Space Rocks
?
http://stores.ebay.com/Outer-Space-Rocks
?
Thanks for looking!
And Have a Great Day!
John Higgins IMCA#9822


      


From freequarks at gmail.com  Wed Dec 23 10:31:36 2009
From: freequarks at gmail.com (Dark Matter)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 08:31:36 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Merry Christmas ! Harvey Nininger Signed book
	ending today! AD
In-Reply-To: <25535.51499.qm@web63202.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
References: <25535.51499.qm@web63202.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <822da19a0912230731n4426f14erdef69dadfb034679@mail.gmail.com>

Hi John,

Interesting autograph. I have not seen a double signed Nininger like
that before.

However, I have seen, and in fact, own one myself, a double signed
Nininger book with two distinct signatures. Here's a pic:

http://www.meteorite-times.com/Back_Links/2003/October/nininger.jpg

Also, since you have an interest in Nininger signings, here's an
inscription he wrote to Chuck Lewis that shows some of the wonderful
personality of H.H. himself. It's in one of my copies of Find a
Falling Star.

http://www.meteorite-times.com/Back_Links/2003/December/ning_fafs_insc_best.jpg

To "some of the thrills..."

-Martin



On Wed, Dec 23, 2009 at 8:01 AM, John higgins <geohiggins at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Merry Christmas all my meteorite friends! Harvey Nininger Signed book ending today! AD
>
> Hello, first of all i would like to wish you all a very warm, Happy?Merry Christmas, lets make it a great one this year!
>
> I have some auctions ending today and tomorrow on E-bay
>
> First on the Agenda is Harvey Nininger Autographed book, it's an original from 1952 that I purchased from the owner in Leipzig, Germany. Book is in great shape, just little wear and tear on the top and bottom of jacket.
> There is a reserve, but to be honest, I think it's super?low considering it took me my whole life to find this one, and it's the only one I was ever able to acquire. Not only did he sign, but he even dated this book! making it incredibly rare, and who else in the world can say they own a original?book signed by the greatest meteorite researcher in history, and he signed it twice! First in blue ink, then went over it again in black ink?to make sure it would?stand the test of time, and?on the specific date?May 21, 1952. Simply one of a kind.
> Also express shipping is?free of course!
> Just a little side note of events that happened on this day in history:
> Famous people born on May 21st
> 427 BC?Plato (philosopher)
> 1427 Albrecht Durer?(painter, engraver, mathematician)
> 1688 Alexander Pope (poet)
> 1844 Henri Rosseau (artist)
> 1917 Raymond Burr (actor)
> 1921 Andre Sakharov (physicist, human rights activist)
> 1951 Al Franken (comedian)
> 1952 Mr T. (actor)
> 1956 Judge Reinhold (actor)
> 1972 Notorious BIG (rapper)
> Another thing:
> 1881 American Red Cross established.
> 1927 Charles Lindbergh completes the first solo flight across the Atlantic
>
>
> If you are interested you can find the auction here:
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/Harvey-Nininger-autographed-book-Out-of-the-sky-1952_W0QQitemZ380190630961QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item588520a431
>
>
> And I also?have Unclassified NWA meteorites ending tomorrow, all with free shipping, currently all under cost!
> You can find them?in my e-bay?store Outer Space Rocks
>
> http://stores.ebay.com/Outer-Space-Rocks
>
> Thanks for looking!
> And Have a Great Day!
> John Higgins IMCA#9822
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


From gmhupe at htn.net  Wed Dec 23 11:00:34 2009
From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 11:00:34 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] [Guarantee] Anomalous CO3.05 - NWA 4530 Auctions
	Ending - AD
References: <DC2005E06D374D58AC6BF253DD4D0F42@Gregor>
Message-ID: <0210A5B881B0468895D7586B77F30FFE@Gregor>

Dear List Members,

I received this question in regards to my new CO3.05, NWA 4530:

"In the [eBay] description I read, that NWA 4530 is Polymict. Are the [NWA 
4530] items you are selling at eBay 100% CO3.05?"

My reply:
"Thank you for your interest in NWA 4530. Yes, I guarantee it to be a 
CO3.05. Dr. Bunch et al. spent three years performing analysis using the 
most up-to-date techniques and stringent standards adopted by the 
Nomenclature Committee to arrive at this classification."

I hope this answers any thoughts others may have. As mentioned yesterday, 
these auctions will end later today.

Best regards,
Greg

====================
Greg Hupe
The Hupe Collection
NaturesVault (eBay)
gmhupe at htn.net
www.LunarRock.com
IMCA 3163
====================
Click here for my current eBay auctions: 
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Greg Hupe" <gmhupe at htn.net>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 7:50 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Anomalous CO3.05 - NWA 4530 Auctions Ending - AD


Dear List Members,

I would like to draw your attention to ending auctions of Officially-named
NWA 4530, an Anomalous CO3.05 Polymict Carbonaceous Chondrite. It is known
as being, "...the Most Pristine Early Solar System Material...", according
to the primary researcher who analyzed it (please see his complete
classification below in this email and included with my eBay descriptions).

The only pieces available to collectors will end at auction tomorrow
(Wednesday, December 23rd). There are only five small pieces adding up to a
mere 4.038 grams! You may also want to have a look at my other Planetary &
Achondrite auctions, most still at the low opening price of 99 cents. These
auctions will most certainly be an early Christmas present to the lucky
winners!

All of these incredible specimens can be found by clicking here:
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault

NWA 4530 - 24.7g Main Mass Photo:
http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa4530/nwa4530mainmass.jpg

Quote from the Primary Researcher who analyzed NWA 4530:
"NWA 4530 is the most pristine early solar system material I have ever seen.
There are no CO3.05s or CO3.0s or even CO3.1s that are as pristine (W/0) as
NWA 4530... a unique and important meteorite!"

Here is the submitted classification for the Meteoritical Bulletin:
Northwest Africa 4530
     Algeria
     Find: September 2006
     Carbonaceous chondrite (CO3.05, anomalous)

History: A single 35.9gram stone broken into 5 pieces was purchased by Greg
Hup? from a Moroccan dealer in Tagounite in September 2006.

Physical Characteristics: Very fresh, light to medium gray interior, with
translucent dark fusion crust with internal bubbles and a prominent
diamond-shaped reticulated pattern in areas where the crust has flaked off.

Petrography (T. Bunch and J. Wittke, NAU; A. Irving, UWS): A polymict,
unequilibrated meteorite, exhibiting some characteristics consistent with
other CO3 chondrites (e. g., non-spherical chondrules are most abundant and
are lobate, distended, and highly irregular, some with fine-grained
accretionary rims). Distinctive chondrule-like objects (designated as CLO)
are also common and are typically fragmented with miniscule mesostasis.
Classic chondrule types are few in number and consist mostly of densely
packed Type I PO and POP with little to no detectable mesostasis. There is
no apparent correlation of Cr2O3 with FeO in FeO-rich olivine with distance
from core to rim, yet there is a correlation of Cr2O3 with FeO in
forsteritic cores. Cr-rich olivine rims were not observed. Amoeboid olivine
inclusions are the most common CAI. The fine-grained matrix is
unrecrystallized with very fine-grained magnetite, sulfides, silica,
glasses, and silicates. Rare, small cohenite grains were also found.
Irregular-shaped sulfides are much larger and range in size from 0.02 to
0.12 mm. Complex nuggets are of two types: (1) those consisting of
pentlandite, troilite, and Cr-magnetite, and (2) sulfide-bearing nuggets,
consisting of a solitary pentlandite grain surrounded by troilite with wispy
oriented inclusions of an unknown sulfide. Magnetite is a common inclusion
in chondrules, and the composition and distribution of magnetite is similar
to that in CK chondrites. No NiFe metal was observed anywhere. Angular,
large (up to 2 x 1.5 mm) igneous-textured clasts contain (in vol %):
forsterite, 79; troilite and pentlandite, 18 and diopside, 3.

Geochemistry: Overall olivine compositions range from, Fa0.03 to Fa72
(FeO/MnO = 61 - 133, mean is 91). Cr2O3 in FeO-rich olivine fragments has a
range of 0.10 to 0.48 wt % with a peak at 0.34 wt % (N = 84). Chondrule-like
fragments (CLO) have a more overall FeO-rich olivine composition, with lower
Fa range (core Fa = 4; rim Fa =41) and lower Cr2O3 content (0.04 - 0.31,
mean = 0.18). Chromian spinel, Cr/(Cr+Al) = 0.24 -0.34. Unknown sulfide is
(in wt. %): Fe, 67.5 and S, 33.2.  Cr-magnetite contains 0.47 - 3.1 wt %
Cr2O3 with minor amounts of MgO, Al2O3, P2O5, CaO and NiO. Unzoned
igneous-textured clast olivine is Fa2.7 (FeO/MnO = 31) and diopside is
Fs1.2Wo39.  Average matrix analysis (partial, N= 27) by defocused beam
microanalysis is (in wt %): Na2O = 0.81; K2O = 0.25; S = 2.48; P2O5 = 0.44;
Cr2O3 = 0.45; NiO = 0.45; S/Si = 0.19; Na/Al = 0.31. Oxygen isotopes (D.
Rumble, CIW): analysis of acid-washed material by laser fluorination gave
d18O = -4.228; d17O = -7.052; D17O = -4.829 per mil, consistent with CO
chondrites.

Classification: Carbonaceous chondrite (CO3.05, anomalous). This stone is
polymict; most components are consistent with CO3 chondrites, although
chondrule-like components (CLO) are not common in CO chondrites (from a
survey of 34 specimens in the NAU repository). NWA 4530 is more highly
oxidized than most CO chondrites and is devoid of metal. The Cr2O3 content
in olivine and the matrix composition is consistent with CO3.0 - CO3.05
(Grossman J. N. and Brearley A. J. (2005) M&PS 40, 87-122). The weathering
grade is W0/1; there is no evidence of any interior weathering. The shock
level is S1.

Good Luck to all of the interested bidders, Thank You!

Best regards,
Greg

====================
Greg Hupe
The Hupe Collection
NaturesVault (eBay)
gmhupe at htn.net
www.LunarRock.com
IMCA 3163
====================
Click here for my current eBay auctions:
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault


______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list




From cynapse at charter.net  Wed Dec 23 11:18:53 2009
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 11:18:53 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Merry Christmas!
In-Reply-To: <e51421550912230513j485a1534y324565165ca4f5dd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <COL119-W53011578F2BA985A80C7A4A4800@phx.gbl>
	<229206.41296.qm@web54505.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<e51421550912230513j485a1534y324565165ca4f5dd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0ig4j5tg23h0evv65ti88t5n4glmg7vqea@4ax.com>

On Wed, 23 Dec 2009 08:13:39 -0500, you wrote:

>Happy Festivus!
>

Hey, guess what's on the front page at CNN.com today?

http://www.cnn.com/2009/LIVING/12/23/festivus.holiday/index.html

Remember, keep the "Fest" in Festivus!  Because Festus is the reason for the
season!  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Festus_Haggen


From skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com  Wed Dec 23 11:44:25 2009
From: skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com (Joe Kerchner)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 08:44:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: 250 gram lot,
	Last of material  "Illinois meteorwrong"
In-Reply-To: <946170.22948.qm@web43413.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
References: <11554945.1261447835933.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<BLU117-W7BC8CBBFFA43F7D082A0EBD810@phx.gbl>
	<946170.22948.qm@web43413.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <77744.63468.qm@web43409.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

I am letting this 250 gram lot go for $150 with free shipping

This is the last of this material I have for sale. after this it is gone.

If interested email me off list.

Happy Holidays,
Best Wishes,
Joe 



----- Original Message ----
From: Joe Kerchner <skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com>
To: meteorite list <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Mon, December 21, 2009 10:45:40 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: 250 gram lot, "Illinois meteorwrong". No more available til at least spring

I have a 250 gram lot of this material for sale, it is the very last of what I have for sale. 
I will not have anymore of this until spring if I am lucky enough to find more. 
The lot is many cut and polishes pieces, slices, end cuts, windowed individual, complete individual. Some are over 30 grams a couple over 20 grams, several between 5-10. a several between 10-20. Some of these pieces are the only piece that I have offered for sale of certain matrixes.
I have a couple lithogies that look superb but only found a single small stone, I kept most of them, but they all have a piece in this lot. This lot has a lot of smaller pieces but very nice pieces, even the smallest piece mhas a great viewing surface. I will send photos of the lot if you requested, haven't taken any yet.

I will sell this lot for $175

If you are interested in this contact me through email, OFF-LIST It will go to the first email I recieve.
Happy Holidays and God Bless........

Best Wishes,
Joe Kerchner


      



From bobl at peaktopeak.com  Wed Dec 23 12:01:15 2009
From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 10:01:15 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: 250 gram lot,
	Last of material  "Illinois meteorwrong"
In-Reply-To: <77744.63468.qm@web43409.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20091223170116.C2E5E105DF@mailwash5.pair.com>

Hi Joe,

Please remember the limit of one ad per week on this list.  Thanks.

Happy holidays!

Bob


-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Joe
Kerchner
Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2009 9:44 AM
To: meteorite list
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD: 250 gram lot,Last of material "Illinois
meteorwrong"

I am letting this 250 gram lot go for $150 with free shipping

This is the last of this material I have for sale. after this it is gone.

If interested email me off list.

Happy Holidays,
Best Wishes,
Joe 


----- Original Message ----
From: Joe Kerchner <skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com>
To: meteorite list <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Mon, December 21, 2009 10:45:40 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: 250 gram lot, "Illinois meteorwrong". No more
available til at least spring

I have a 250 gram lot of this material for sale, it is the very last of what
I have for sale. 
I will not have anymore of this until spring if I am lucky enough to find
more. 
The lot is many cut and polishes pieces, slices, end cuts, windowed
individual, complete individual. Some are over 30 grams a couple over 20
grams, several between 5-10. a several between 10-20. Some of these pieces
are the only piece that I have offered for sale of certain matrixes.
I have a couple lithogies that look superb but only found a single small
stone, I kept most of them, but they all have a piece in this lot. This lot
has a lot of smaller pieces but very nice pieces, even the smallest piece
mhas a great viewing surface. I will send photos of the lot if you
requested, haven't taken any yet.

I will sell this lot for $175

If you are interested in this contact me through email, OFF-LIST It will go
to the first email I recieve.
Happy Holidays and God Bless........

Best Wishes,
Joe Kerchner



From raremeteorites at yahoo.com  Wed Dec 23 12:03:53 2009
From: raremeteorites at yahoo.com (Adam Hupe)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 09:03:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Many Rare Main Masses - Make Offers
Message-ID: <662343.57332.qm@web30702.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Dear List Members,
 
Please take a moment to look if you have time at auctions ending this 
afternoon. You will find many rare main masses including NWA 001, the first meteorite 
to become official in the 2.0 era! Do not be afraid to make offers on any of the 
main masses as I am motivated to sell right now.
 
All Auctions Can Be Found At This link:
http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/raremeteorites!_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZQQ_mdoZ

 
Thank you for looking and if you are bidding, I wish you the best.
 
Adam


From edeckert at triad.rr.com  Wed Dec 23 12:14:50 2009
From: edeckert at triad.rr.com (Ed Deckert)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 12:14:50 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] It's all about your own perspective
Message-ID: <016401ca83f3$6f863b40$6401a8c0@EdDeckertMain>

Hello listers,

I thought we all could use a chuckle...

http://comics.com/f_minus/2009-12-23/

And, I would like to wish everyone a wonderful holiday season, regardless of 
what you may celebrate.

Ed

-------------------------------------------
Ed Deckert
IMCA #8911    http://imca.cc/ 





E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.1.0.447)
Database version: 6.13960
http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/


From skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com  Wed Dec 23 12:20:40 2009
From: skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com (Joe Kerchner)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 09:20:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: 250 gram lot,
	Last of material  "Illinois meteorwrong"
In-Reply-To: <77744.63468.qm@web43409.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
References: <11554945.1261447835933.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<BLU117-W7BC8CBBFFA43F7D082A0EBD810@phx.gbl>
	<946170.22948.qm@web43413.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
	<77744.63468.qm@web43409.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <113735.79015.qm@web43410.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

This has been sold. Thanks to all 
HAPPY HOLIDAYS!!!!



----- Original Message ----
From: Joe Kerchner <skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com>
To: meteorite list <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Wed, December 23, 2009 10:44:25 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD: 250 gram lot, Last of material  "Illinois meteorwrong"

I am letting this 250 gram lot go for $150 with free shipping

This is the last of this material I have for sale. after this it is gone.

If interested email me off list.

Happy Holidays,
Best Wishes,
Joe 



----- Original Message ----
From: Joe Kerchner <skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com>
To: meteorite list <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Mon, December 21, 2009 10:45:40 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: 250 gram lot, "Illinois meteorwrong". No more available til at least spring

I have a 250 gram lot of this material for sale, it is the very last of what I have for sale. 
I will not have anymore of this until spring if I am lucky enough to find more. 
The lot is many cut and polishes pieces, slices, end cuts, windowed individual, complete individual. Some are over 30 grams a couple over 20 grams, several between 5-10. a several between 10-20. Some of these pieces are the only piece that I have offered for sale of certain matrixes.
I have a couple lithogies that look superb but only found a single small stone, I kept most of them, but they all have a piece in this lot. This lot has a lot of smaller pieces but very nice pieces, even the smallest piece mhas a great viewing surface. I will send photos of the lot if you requested, haven't taken any yet.

I will sell this lot for $175

If you are interested in this contact me through email, OFF-LIST It will go to the first email I recieve.
Happy Holidays and God Bless........

Best Wishes,
Joe Kerchner


      

______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



      



From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com  Wed Dec 23 14:07:01 2009
From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 11:07:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] merry christmas and micellaneous items
Message-ID: <523233.88847.qm@web57805.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Good afternoon list.I just want to extend a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to everyone on this list,including the naysayers.I have never nor will I ever hold a grudge against anyone.Life is to short for any of the down times that go on this list.Lets just do meteorites that way we can avoid unnecessary crap.I also hope everyone who has gotten freebies have enjoyed them as much as I have given them away.I still have to send out the tektites.They will finally be going out this week.Also finally I will not be reachable by this list till?tucson.Privately I will be,but not thru the list.Again to all a great holiday season, and see many of you in tucson.
?Steve R. Arnold, Chicago!! chicagometeorites.net/ 


From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Wed Dec 23 14:26:36 2009
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 11:26:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Prepping WISE to Pop Its Lens Cap
Message-ID: <200912231926.nBNJQa60018260@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>



http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/features.cfm?feature=2418
  
Prepping WISE to Pop Its Lens Cap
Jet Propulsion Laboratory
December 22, 2009

All systems are behaving as expected on NASA's Wide-field Infrared
Survey Explorer (WISE), which rocketed into the sky just before dawn on
Dec. 14 from Vandenberg Air Force Base in California. The mission will
undergo a one-month checkout before beginning the most detailed survey
yet of the entire sky in infrared light. Hundreds of millions of objects
will populate its vast catalog, including dark asteroids, the closest
"failed" stars and tremendously energetic galaxies.

Shortly after the space telescope reached its polar orbit around Earth
on Dec. 14, it acquired the sun's position and lined up with its solar
panels facing the sun. Engineers and scientists continue to check out
the spacecraft's pointing-control system in preparation for jettisoning
the instrument's cover, an event now scheduled for Dec. 29. With the
cover off, WISE will get its first look at the sky.

The cover serves as the top to a Thermos-like bottle, called a cryostat,
which chills the heat-sensitive infrared instrument. The instrument
consists of a 40-centimeter (16-inch) telescope and four detectors, each
with one million pixels. Just as a Thermos bottle keeps your coffee warm
or your iced tea cold with a thin vacuum layer, a vacuum inside WISE's
cryostat kept the instrument cold while it was on the ground.

The cover also prevented light from reaching the detectors, and
protected the chilly interior of the instrument from heat that could
have come about from unintentional pointing at Earth or the sun during
launch. After WISE was pushed away from its rocket, it wobbled around
slightly before stabilizing (a process that took surprisingly little
time -- only 3 minutes). Without the cover, the heat from Earth or the
sun would have shortened the time the cryostat kept the instrument cold,
and possibly damaged the detectors.

Now that WISE is steadily perched in the vacuum of space, it will no
longer need the instrument cover; in fact, space will provide an even
better vacuum. Engineers are preparing to pop the cover by making sure
the pointing-control system is functioning properly. Once everything has
been checked out, they will send a signal to fire pyrotechnic devices,
releasing nuts that are clamping the cover shut. Three springs will then
push the lid away and into an orbit closer to Earth than that of the
spacecraft.

The WISE team has also verified that the instrument is as cold as
planned. The cryostat's outer shell is slightly below the planned 190
Kelvin (minus 83 degrees Celsius, or minus 117 degrees Fahrenheit), and
the coldest of the detectors is less than 8 Kelvin (minus 265 degrees
Celsius, or minus 447 degrees Fahrenheit).

All spacecraft systems are functioning normally, and both the low- and
high-rate data links are working properly. The instrument's detectors
are turned on, and though they are currently staring into the backside
of the instrument cover, they will soon see the light of stars. WISE's
first images will be released within one month after its one-month
checkout.

JPL manages the Wide-field Infrared Survey Explorer for NASA's Science
Mission Directorate, Washington. The principal investigator, Edward
Wright, is at UCLA. The mission was competitively selected under NASA's
Explorers Program managed by the Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt,
Md. The science instrument was built by the Space Dynamics Laboratory,
Logan, Utah, and the spacecraft was built by Ball Aerospace &
Technologies Corp., Boulder, Colo. Science operations and data
processing take place at the Infrared Processing and Analysis Center at
the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena. Caltech manages JPL
for NASA. More information is online at http://www.nasa.gov/wise,
http://wise.astro.ucla.edu and http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/wise.




From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Wed Dec 23 14:28:47 2009
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 11:28:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Spirit Rover Update: Right-Front and Right-Rear
	Wheels Sit Out Latest Drive
Message-ID: <200912231928.nBNJSlYH019426@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>


http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2009-203  

Right-Front and Right-Rear Wheels Sit Out Latest Drive
Jet Propulsion Laboratory
December 22, 2009

Spirit's drive on Sol 2120 (Dec. 19, 2009) included commands for using
all six wheels. However, the right-front wheel rotated less than 2
degrees and the right-rear wheel did not rotate at all. The other four
wheels completed enough rotations to drive about 10 meters (33 feet),
but produced no measurable forward motion by the rover.

The rover team plans to command further driving this week while
continuing to assess the possibility of getting more motion from the
right-front wheel.



From grf2 at comcast.net  Wed Dec 23 14:41:44 2009
From: grf2 at comcast.net (Jerry Flaherty)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 14:41:44 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Joe's K's Famous Wrong
Message-ID: <A17122C0E9F946FAB3C3FDE82A2D521E@ASUS>

Got my sample today. Excellent example. Thanks Joe.
Jerry Flaherty 


From lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu  Wed Dec 23 15:46:30 2009
From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu (lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 13:46:30 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Mike Reynolds: please contact me off line
In-Reply-To: <SNT102-W5090F90B0C1B974492A236A2810@phx.gbl>
References: <SNT102-W5090F90B0C1B974492A236A2810@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <c987867864636c6d666f6be490834148.squirrel@webmail.lpl.arizona.edu>

Hi Mike:

Please contact me off line.

Thanks

Larry Lebofsky

PS If anyone has an up-to-date email address for Mike, please let me know,
thanks





From ensaist at gmail.com  Wed Dec 23 16:12:18 2009
From: ensaist at gmail.com (Ahmad bouragaa)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 22:12:18 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Tamdakht
Message-ID: <2baeaea40912231312t3af5718fo97d03acd3ca3e916@mail.gmail.com>

Hello List;
In the occasion of  Tamdakht  birthday ; I would like to offer one of
the best piece,  weigh 470g,  complet and crust;  see this link:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/36221954 at N07/
who's interessing contact me off the list
best regards
Ahmad


From ensaist at gmail.com  Wed Dec 23 16:14:55 2009
From: ensaist at gmail.com (Ahmad bouragaa)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 22:14:55 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Tamdakht
Message-ID: <2baeaea40912231314i3c390a8dla9b0fbeb9f2be750@mail.gmail.com>

Hello List;
In the occasion of ?Tamdakht ?birthday ; I would like to offer one of
the best piece, ?weigh 470g, ?complet and crust; the price is $2.5 per
gram; ?see this link:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/36221954 at N07/
who's interessing contact me off the list
best regards


From jlatchford at cox.net  Wed Dec 23 16:26:27 2009
From: jlatchford at cox.net (Julie)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 14:26:27 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Tucson
Message-ID: <660C6F1A-F668-4423-8D45-4800C7864C4C@cox.net>

Hi List .  My name is julie L. I live in Queen Creek AZ.  I would like  
to go to the Tucson show.  I have been to a web sight I think is the  
right one. But I still have a couple of questions if you all don't  
mind. When is the best days to go. It looks like it is not is just one  
place.  So where is the best place to go.  Yes I am new to the  
list.  :)  Thank You for your time & info. Hope to meet some of you &  
the show. Julie L 


From damoclid at yahoo.com  Wed Dec 23 16:44:54 2009
From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 13:44:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Tucson
In-Reply-To: <660C6F1A-F668-4423-8D45-4800C7864C4C@cox.net>
Message-ID: <564046.39410.qm@web113614.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Julie,

for a first timer, there are two "Must See" locations

The Arizona Mineral & Fossil Show at the Hotel Tucson City Center - formerly InnSuites Hotel

http://www.xpopress.com/AZ-AMFS-IS-show-schedule.html

and the Arizona Mineral & Fossil Show at the Ramada Ltd.

http://www.xpopress.com/AZ-AMFS-RL-show-schedule.html

As you can see they both run the full two weeks.

You can spend a few days wandering both locations. The best days to go are the days you can make it! Obviously the better selection can be had at the beginning of the show, but often the best deals can be made at the end of the show, but there is so many neat things to see and buy, anytime is good!

Have fun!

--
Richard Kowalski
http://fullmoonphotography.net
IMCA #1081


--- On Wed, 12/23/09, Julie <jlatchford at cox.net> wrote:

> From: Julie <jlatchford at cox.net>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Tucson
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Wednesday, December 23, 2009, 2:26 PM
> Hi List .? My name is julie L. I
> live in Queen Creek AZ.? I would like to go to the
> Tucson show.? I have been to a web sight I think is the
> right one. But I still have a couple of questions if you all
> don't mind. When is the best days to go. It looks like it is
> not is just one place.? So where is the best place to
> go.? Yes I am new to the list.? :)? Thank You
> for your time & info. Hope to meet some of you & the
> show. Julie L______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      


From parkforestmet at hotmail.com  Wed Dec 23 17:29:53 2009
From: parkforestmet at hotmail.com (bill kies)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 16:29:53 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Holiday Greeting (politically correct)
In-Reply-To: <0ig4j5tg23h0evv65ti88t5n4glmg7vqea@4ax.com>
References: <COL119-W53011578F2BA985A80C7A4A4800@phx.gbl>,
	<229206.41296.qm@web54505.mail.re2.yahoo.com>,
	<e51421550912230513j485a1534y324565165ca4f5dd@mail.gmail.com>,
	<0ig4j5tg23h0evv65ti88t5n4glmg7vqea@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <SNT102-W4001B6F40350FBBF340FC8A2800@phx.gbl>


Please accept with no obligation, implied or implicit, my best wishes for an
environmentally conscious, socially responsible, low stress, non-addictive, gender
neutral, celebration of the winter solstice holiday, practiced within the most enjoyable
traditions of the religious persuasion of your choice, or secular practices of your
choice, with respect for the religious/secular persuasions and/or traditions of others,
or their choice not to practice religious or secular traditions at all and a fiscally
successful, personally fulfilling and medically uncomplicated recognition of the onset
of the generally accepted calendar year 2000, but not without due respect for the
calendars of choice of other cultures whose contributions to society have helped make
America great (not to imply that America is necessarily greater than any other country
or is the only "AMERICA" in the western hemisphere), and without regard to the
race, creed, color, age, physical disability, religious faith, choice of computer platform,
or sexual preference of the wishee.

Legal Disclaimer: By accepting this agreement, you are accepting these terms.

This greeting is subject to clarification or withdrawal. It is freely transferable with no
alteration to the original greeting. It implies no promise by the wisher to actually
implement any of the wishes for her/himself or others, and is void where prohibited by
law, and is revocable at the sole discretion of the wisher.

This wish is warranted to perform as expected within the usual application of good
tidings for a period of one year, or until the issuance of a subsequent holiday greeting,
whichever comes first, and warranty is limited to replacement of this wish or issuance
of a new wish at the sole discretion of the wisher.

Sincerely,

(Name withheld for legal, social and cultural considerations.) 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222986/direct/01/

From parkforestmet at hotmail.com  Wed Dec 23 17:38:54 2009
From: parkforestmet at hotmail.com (bill kies)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 16:38:54 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Holiday Greeting (politically correct)
In-Reply-To: <SNT102-W4001B6F40350FBBF340FC8A2800@phx.gbl>
References: <COL119-W53011578F2BA985A80C7A4A4800@phx.gbl>, ,
	<229206.41296.qm@web54505.mail.re2.yahoo.com>, ,
	<e51421550912230513j485a1534y324565165ca4f5dd@mail.gmail.com>, ,
	<0ig4j5tg23h0evv65ti88t5n4glmg7vqea@4ax.com>,
	<SNT102-W4001B6F40350FBBF340FC8A2800@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <SNT102-W62929592DA49CA5F264B2A2800@phx.gbl>


Oops. Forgot to change the year although that's unimportant since no year is better than any other.
 


----------------------------------------
> From: parkforestmet at hotmail.com
> To: cynapse at charter.net
> Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 16:29:53 -0600
> CC: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Holiday Greeting (politically correct)
>
>
> Please accept with no obligation, implied or implicit, my best wishes for an
> environmentally conscious, socially responsible, low stress, non-addictive, gender
> neutral, celebration of the winter solstice holiday, practiced within the most enjoyable
> traditions of the religious persuasion of your choice, or secular practices of your
> choice, with respect for the religious/secular persuasions and/or traditions of others,
> or their choice not to practice religious or secular traditions at all and a fiscally
> successful, personally fulfilling and medically uncomplicated recognition of the onset
> of the generally accepted calendar year 2000, but not without due respect for the
> calendars of choice of other cultures whose contributions to society have helped make
> America great (not to imply that America is necessarily greater than any other country
> or is the only "AMERICA" in the western hemisphere), and without regard to the
> race, creed, color, age, physical disability, religious faith, choice of computer platform,
> or sexual preference of the wishee.
>
> Legal Disclaimer: By accepting this agreement, you are accepting these terms.
>
> This greeting is subject to clarification or withdrawal. It is freely transferable with no
> alteration to the original greeting. It implies no promise by the wisher to actually
> implement any of the wishes for her/himself or others, and is void where prohibited by
> law, and is revocable at the sole discretion of the wisher.
>
> This wish is warranted to perform as expected within the usual application of good
> tidings for a period of one year, or until the issuance of a subsequent holiday greeting,
> whichever comes first, and warranty is limited to replacement of this wish or issuance
> of a new wish at the sole discretion of the wisher.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> (Name withheld for legal, social and cultural considerations.)
> _________________________________________________________________
> Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222986/direct/01/
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141665/direct/01/

From geeg48 at msn.com  Wed Dec 23 17:57:27 2009
From: geeg48 at msn.com (GREG LINDH)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 15:57:27 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Holiday Greeting (politically correct)
In-Reply-To: <SNT102-W4001B6F40350FBBF340FC8A2800@phx.gbl>
References: <COL119-W53011578F2BA985A80C7A4A4800@phx.gbl>, ,
	<229206.41296.qm@web54505.mail.re2.yahoo.com>, ,
	<e51421550912230513j485a1534y324565165ca4f5dd@mail.gmail.com>, ,
	<0ig4j5tg23h0evv65ti88t5n4glmg7vqea@4ax.com>,
	<SNT102-W4001B6F40350FBBF340FC8A2800@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BLU125-W2192DFF16D543E61054D5AC9800@phx.gbl>



    Nice post.
 
 
 

----------------------------------------
> From: parkforestmet at hotmail.com
> To: cynapse at charter.net
> Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 16:29:53 -0600
> CC: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Holiday Greeting (politically correct)
>
>
> Please accept with no obligation, implied or implicit, my best wishes for an
> environmentally conscious, socially responsible, low stress, non-addictive, gender
> neutral, celebration of the winter solstice holiday, practiced within the most enjoyable
> traditions of the religious persuasion of your choice, or secular practices of your
> choice, with respect for the religious/secular persuasions and/or traditions of others,
> or their choice not to practice religious or secular traditions at all and a fiscally
> successful, personally fulfilling and medically uncomplicated recognition of the onset
> of the generally accepted calendar year 2000, but not without due respect for the
> calendars of choice of other cultures whose contributions to society have helped make
> America great (not to imply that America is necessarily greater than any other country
> or is the only "AMERICA" in the western hemisphere), and without regard to the
> race, creed, color, age, physical disability, religious faith, choice of computer platform,
> or sexual preference of the wishee.
>
> Legal Disclaimer: By accepting this agreement, you are accepting these terms.
>
> This greeting is subject to clarification or withdrawal. It is freely transferable with no
> alteration to the original greeting. It implies no promise by the wisher to actually
> implement any of the wishes for her/himself or others, and is void where prohibited by
> law, and is revocable at the sole discretion of the wisher.
>
> This wish is warranted to perform as expected within the usual application of good
> tidings for a period of one year, or until the issuance of a subsequent holiday greeting,
> whichever comes first, and warranty is limited to replacement of this wish or issuance
> of a new wish at the sole discretion of the wisher.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> (Name withheld for legal, social and cultural considerations.)
> _________________________________________________________________
> Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222986/direct/01/
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 		 	   		  

From fujmon at mac.com  Wed Dec 23 18:01:42 2009
From: fujmon at mac.com (Gary Fujihara)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 13:01:42 -1000
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD-Post Xmas Offerings
Message-ID: <502CE466-84FE-4479-B5FB-A20F4ADF94B2@mac.com>

Aloha listees,

To all, the Big Kahuna would like to wish a Merry Christmas, Happy Hannukah, Joyous Quanza, and Happy Festivus!  To help celebrate, we have an ebay auction ending this Saturday, December 26 starting at 8:39 am Pacific / 11:30 am Eastern / 4:30 pm London / 6:30 pm Helsinki / 12:30 am (Sun) Singapore.  On the block are:

Kem Kem 33, 13.79g Historic Half stone, currently at only $24.99
NWA 2840 L4 IMB, 50g Shock Melt Slab, currently at just $2.50/g
NWA 5611 Euc, 18.20g Quartercut endcut, start bid at $59.99
NWA 2975 She,  0.24g, 1.11g Crusted individuals starting @ $89.99
Dar al Gani She, 1.12g Slice of Martian meteorite, starting @ $459
D'Orbigny Ang, 0.16g Crusted Fragment starting at only $64
Mantle Xenolith, 6.63g Slice of rare RED olivine, bid at $9.99
NWA x OC, 162g Super fresh crusted individual, bid at $79.99
La Luz H4, 6.26g Polished slice in display box, bid at $15
Bassikounou H5, 9.62g Oriented w/ rollover lip, bid at $31
Chergach H5, 11.19g 100% FC w/ rollover lip, bid at $34
Allende CV3, 0.41g, 3.28g, 10.47g, various Super Fresh!
Murchison CM2, 0.27g Crusted Frag, currently at $34.99 
Camel Donga Euc, 3.85g 100% FC, currently a steal at $7.50
Tatahouine Dio, 1.04g lot, 6.78g tri-lobe, starting at 99?
NWA 1877 Dio, 1.08g Super Rare olivine dio, still at 99?
Henbury IIIAB, 10.29g  Sculpted beauty is still at only 99?

... and much more.  We also have a Apollo 11 - 40th Anniversary embroidered patch and sticker bundle starting at 99?, and a Galileoscope to build and view the heavens!

http://shop.ebay.com/fujmon/m.html

Remember that you can count on the Big Kahuna to provide you with the highest quality authentic meteorites at the lowest prices on earth.

Gary Fujihara
Big Kahuna Meteorites (IMCA#1693)
105 Puhili Place, Hilo, Hawaii 96720
(808) 640-9161



From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de  Wed Dec 23 18:20:45 2009
From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de)
Date: 23 Dec 2009 23:20:45 UT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Test, ... please ignore
Message-ID: <DIIE.00000040000042FC@paulinet.de>

 



From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de  Wed Dec 23 18:25:13 2009
From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de)
Date: 23 Dec 2009 23:25:13 UT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Test, ... please ignore
Message-ID: <DIIE.0000003F000042FF@paulinet.de>

> Test passed. Welcome to the next level. Happy holidays.

Thanks, Greg! And a Happy ... whatever everyone will be celebrating!

Bernd



From jasonchadwick67 at yahoo.com  Wed Dec 23 18:28:24 2009
From: jasonchadwick67 at yahoo.com (Jason Chadwick)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 15:28:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Holiday Greeting (politically correct)
In-Reply-To: <SNT102-W4001B6F40350FBBF340FC8A2800@phx.gbl>
References: <COL119-W53011578F2BA985A80C7A4A4800@phx.gbl>,
	<229206.41296.qm@web54505.mail.re2.yahoo.com>,
	<e51421550912230513j485a1534y324565165ca4f5dd@mail.gmail.com>,
	<0ig4j5tg23h0evv65ti88t5n4glmg7vqea@4ax.com>
	<SNT102-W4001B6F40350FBBF340FC8A2800@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <29232.3252.qm@web114015.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

your an idiot....



________________________________
From: bill kies <parkforestmet at hotmail.com>
To: cynapse at charter.net
Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Wed, December 23, 2009 3:29:53 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Holiday Greeting (politically correct)


Please accept with no obligation, implied or implicit, my best wishes for an
environmentally conscious, socially responsible, low stress, non-addictive, gender
neutral, celebration of the winter solstice holiday, practiced within the most enjoyable
traditions of the religious persuasion of your choice, or secular practices of your
choice, with respect for the religious/secular persuasions and/or traditions of others,
or their choice not to practice religious or secular traditions at all and a fiscally
successful, personally fulfilling and medically uncomplicated recognition of the onset
of the generally accepted calendar year 2000, but not without due respect for the
calendars of choice of other cultures whose contributions to society have helped make
America great (not to imply that America is necessarily greater than any other country
or is the only "AMERICA" in the western hemisphere), and without regard to the
race, creed, color, age, physical disability, religious faith, choice of computer platform,
or sexual preference of the wishee.

Legal Disclaimer: By accepting this agreement, you are accepting these terms.

This greeting is subject to clarification or withdrawal. It is freely transferable with no
alteration to the original greeting. It implies no promise by the wisher to actually
implement any of the wishes for her/himself or others, and is void where prohibited by
law, and is revocable at the sole discretion of the wisher.

This wish is warranted to perform as expected within the usual application of good
tidings for a period of one year, or until the issuance of a subsequent holiday greeting,
whichever comes first, and warranty is limited to replacement of this wish or issuance
of a new wish at the sole discretion of the wisher.

Sincerely,

(Name withheld for legal, social and cultural considerations.)                           
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222986/direct/01/
______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



      



From minador at yahoo.com  Wed Dec 23 20:02:53 2009
From: minador at yahoo.com (Mark Bowling)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 17:02:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Whetstone Mountains Monograph
In-Reply-To: <965722.59450.qm@web46413.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <435707.15411.qm@web54504.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I finally got my copies!  Thanks Dave and Jack for making this document possible, and great specimens too! I couldn't be more satisfied...

Mark Bowling
Vail, AZ

--- On Mon, 12/21/09, Greg Catterton <star_wars_collector at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Greg Catterton <star_wars_collector at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Whetstone Mountains Monograph
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Monday, December 21, 2009, 4:46 PM
> I just received my autographed copy
> of Whetstone Mountains monograph.
> 
> I have to say an excellent job was done on this, and I am
> super pleased to have one.
> The documentation is an incredible read that I will
> certainly take time to read more then once.
> The fragment is got even had a nice spot of fusion crust on
> it!
> 
> If you ordered one and have not got it yet, just wait!!!
> Thats all Im gonna say. I dont want to spoil it for those
> that have not seen it in person.
> 
> Great job to all involved in this.
> 
> Greg C.
> 
> 
> ? ? ? 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


From minador at yahoo.com  Wed Dec 23 20:23:11 2009
From: minador at yahoo.com (Mark Bowling)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 17:23:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Holiday Greeting (politically correct)
In-Reply-To: <29232.3252.qm@web114015.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <64617.12726.qm@web54506.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Jason, I take it your typo was tongue in cheek.  Oh and I enjoyed the "no year is better than any other" comment Bill, made me lol a second time!

So does anyone have a favorite Christmas (or holiday) meteorite??

Mark B.
Vail, AZ

--- On Wed, 12/23/09, Jason Chadwick <jasonchadwick67 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Jason Chadwick <jasonchadwick67 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Holiday Greeting (politically correct)
> To: "bill kies" <parkforestmet at hotmail.com>
> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Wednesday, December 23, 2009, 4:28 PM
> 
> your an idiot....
> 
> ________________________________
> From: bill kies <parkforestmet at hotmail.com>
> To: cynapse at charter.net
> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Sent: Wed, December 23, 2009 3:29:53 PM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Holiday Greeting (politically
> correct)
> 
> Please accept with no obligation, implied or implicit, my
> best wishes for an
> environmentally conscious, socially responsible, low
> stress, non-addictive, gender
> neutral, celebration of the winter solstice holiday,
> practiced within the most enjoyable
> traditions of the religious persuasion of your choice, or
> secular practices of your
> choice, with respect for the religious/secular persuasions
> and/or traditions of others,
> or their choice not to practice religious or secular
> traditions at all and a fiscally
> successful, personally fulfilling and medically
> uncomplicated recognition of the onset
> of the generally accepted calendar year 2000, but not
> without due respect for the
> calendars of choice of other cultures whose contributions
> to society have helped make
> America great (not to imply that America is necessarily
> greater than any other country
> or is the only "AMERICA" in the western hemisphere), and
> without regard to the
> race, creed, color, age, physical disability, religious
> faith, choice of computer platform,
> or sexual preference of the wishee.
> 
> Legal Disclaimer: By accepting this agreement, you are
> accepting these terms.
> 
> This greeting is subject to clarification or withdrawal. It
> is freely transferable with no
> alteration to the original greeting. It implies no promise
> by the wisher to actually
> implement any of the wishes for her/himself or others, and
> is void where prohibited by
> law, and is revocable at the sole discretion of the
> wisher.
> 
> This wish is warranted to perform as expected within the
> usual application of good
> tidings for a period of one year, or until the issuance of
> a subsequent holiday greeting,
> whichever comes first, and warranty is limited to
> replacement of this wish or issuance
> of a new wish at the sole discretion of the wisher.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> (Name withheld for legal, social and cultural
> considerations.)? ? ? ? ? ?



From michael at rocksfromspace.org  Wed Dec 23 21:01:06 2009
From: michael at rocksfromspace.org (Michael Johnson)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 18:01:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December 24,
	2009
Message-ID: <2094911535.110011261620066607.JavaMail.root@mbs1.homesteadmail.com>

http://www.rocksfromspace.org/December_24_2009.html




From cynapse at charter.net  Wed Dec 23 21:07:41 2009
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 21:07:41 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Holiday Greeting (politically correct)
In-Reply-To: <29232.3252.qm@web114015.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <COL119-W53011578F2BA985A80C7A4A4800@phx.gbl>,
	<229206.41296.qm@web54505.mail.re2.yahoo.com>,
	<e51421550912230513j485a1534y324565165ca4f5dd@mail.gmail.com>,
	<0ig4j5tg23h0evv65ti88t5n4glmg7vqea@4ax.com>
	<SNT102-W4001B6F40350FBBF340FC8A2800@phx.gbl>
	<29232.3252.qm@web114015.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <56j5j5pj7vvr5giq61lsmrtp7a7mksu32n@4ax.com>

On Wed, 23 Dec 2009 15:28:24 -0800 (PST), you wrote:

>your an idiot....
>

Maybe so, but I'll bet he knows his middle school English.


From grf2 at comcast.net  Wed Dec 23 21:24:19 2009
From: grf2 at comcast.net (Jerry Flaherty)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 21:24:19 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Holiday Greeting (politically correct)
References: <COL119-W53011578F2BA985A80C7A4A4800@phx.gbl>,
	<229206.41296.qm@web54505.mail.re2.yahoo.com>,
	<e51421550912230513j485a1534y324565165ca4f5dd@mail.gmail.com>,
	<0ig4j5tg23h0evv65ti88t5n4glmg7vqea@4ax.com>
	<SNT102-W4001B6F40350FBBF340FC8A2800@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <2D3EF5B6463A4C44ACE0D513627CB6B3@ASUS>

LOL Thanks Bill,
And may I humbly, add all the blessings of the season, love, joy and peace
Jerry Flaherty

--------------------------------------------------
From: "bill kies" <parkforestmet at hotmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2009 5:29 PM
To: <cynapse at charter.net>
Cc: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Subject: [meteorite-list] Holiday Greeting (politically correct)

>
> Please accept with no obligation, implied or implicit, my best wishes for 
> an
> environmentally conscious, socially responsible, low stress, 
> non-addictive, gender
> neutral, celebration of the winter solstice holiday, practiced within the 
> most enjoyable
> traditions of the religious persuasion of your choice, or secular 
> practices of your
> choice, with respect for the religious/secular persuasions and/or 
> traditions of others,
> or their choice not to practice religious or secular traditions at all and 
> a fiscally
> successful, personally fulfilling and medically uncomplicated recognition 
> of the onset
> of the generally accepted calendar year 2000, but not without due respect 
> for the
> calendars of choice of other cultures whose contributions to society have 
> helped make
> America great (not to imply that America is necessarily greater than any 
> other country
> or is the only "AMERICA" in the western hemisphere), and without regard to 
> the
> race, creed, color, age, physical disability, religious faith, choice of 
> computer platform,
> or sexual preference of the wishee.
>
> Legal Disclaimer: By accepting this agreement, you are accepting these 
> terms.
>
> This greeting is subject to clarification or withdrawal. It is freely 
> transferable with no
> alteration to the original greeting. It implies no promise by the wisher 
> to actually
> implement any of the wishes for her/himself or others, and is void where 
> prohibited by
> law, and is revocable at the sole discretion of the wisher.
>
> This wish is warranted to perform as expected within the usual application 
> of good
> tidings for a period of one year, or until the issuance of a subsequent 
> holiday greeting,
> whichever comes first, and warranty is limited to replacement of this wish 
> or issuance
> of a new wish at the sole discretion of the wisher.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> (Name withheld for legal, social and cultural considerations.)
> _________________________________________________________________
> Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222986/direct/01/
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From meteoritefinder at yahoo.com  Wed Dec 23 21:22:22 2009
From: meteoritefinder at yahoo.com (Robert Woolard)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 18:22:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December
	24, 2009
In-Reply-To: <2094911535.110011261620066607.JavaMail.root@mbs1.homesteadmail.com>
Message-ID: <368101.65332.qm@web39601.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Michael and Linton,

  Great Pic of the Day. Very clever. Thanks guys for sharing this with us all. Keep up the good work in the coming year, Michael!

  Best wishes,
  Robert Woolard

  
--- On Wed, 12/23/09, Michael Johnson <michael at rocksfromspace.org> wrote:

> From: Michael Johnson <michael at rocksfromspace.org>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December 24, 2009
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Wednesday, December 23, 2009, 8:01 PM
> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/December_24_2009.html
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      


From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com  Wed Dec 23 21:33:43 2009
From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 18:33:43 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Holiday Greeting (politically correct)
Message-ID: <COL108-W7F639B6851416343C80A69B7F0@phx.gbl>


Yes, very good. Thank you, Bill. Best wishes to all.

Carl


Greg wrote:
>     Nice post.

>> Please accept with no obligation, implied or implicit, my best wishes for an
>> environmentally conscious,...
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141665/direct/01/

From geeg48 at msn.com  Wed Dec 23 21:43:38 2009
From: geeg48 at msn.com (GREG LINDH)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 19:43:38 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December
 24, 2009
In-Reply-To: <2094911535.110011261620066607.JavaMail.root@mbs1.homesteadmail.com>
References: <2094911535.110011261620066607.JavaMail.root@mbs1.homesteadmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU125-W28F4B237B48980E92F92F8C97F0@phx.gbl>



  That's a great photo.  I agree with Linton....why would anyone want anything else?  He's going to have one happy family!  LOL!
 
 
 
> Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 18:01:06 -0800
> From: michael at rocksfromspace.org
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December 24, 2009
> 
> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/December_24_2009.html
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 		 	   		  

From dave at fallingrocks.com  Wed Dec 23 21:43:34 2009
From: dave at fallingrocks.com (Dave Gheesling)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 21:43:34 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Whetstone Mountains Monograph
In-Reply-To: <435707.15411.qm@web54504.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <965722.59450.qm@web46413.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
	<435707.15411.qm@web54504.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <22C66A269251411B8FE2CD285DF2FF8D@meteorroom>

Glad to hear it Mark...and thanks much!

Dave
www.fallingrocks.com 

-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Mark
Bowling
Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2009 8:03 PM
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Whetstone Mountains Monograph

I finally got my copies!  Thanks Dave and Jack for making this document
possible, and great specimens too! I couldn't be more satisfied...

Mark Bowling
Vail, AZ

--- On Mon, 12/21/09, Greg Catterton <star_wars_collector at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Greg Catterton <star_wars_collector at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Whetstone Mountains Monograph
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Monday, December 21, 2009, 4:46 PM I just received my 
> autographed copy of Whetstone Mountains monograph.
> 
> I have to say an excellent job was done on this, and I am super 
> pleased to have one.
> The documentation is an incredible read that I will certainly take 
> time to read more then once.
> The fragment is got even had a nice spot of fusion crust on it!
> 
> If you ordered one and have not got it yet, just wait!!!
> Thats all Im gonna say. I dont want to spoil it for those that have 
> not seen it in person.
> 
> Great job to all involved in this.
> 
> Greg C.
> 
> 
> ? ? ? 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 
______________________________________________
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Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com  Wed Dec 23 21:56:24 2009
From: skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com (Joe Kerchner)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 18:56:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December
	24, 2009
In-Reply-To: <2094911535.110011261620066607.JavaMail.root@mbs1.homesteadmail.com>
References: <2094911535.110011261620066607.JavaMail.root@mbs1.homesteadmail.com>
Message-ID: <337324.91002.qm@web43414.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>




Great photo Linton, great idea. That is what I want, but will not get any of those "damn rocks" as they call them.
HAPPY HOLIDAYS!!!
Happy New Year!
Best Wishes,
Joe Kerchner
http://illinoismeteorites.com
http://skyrockcafe.com



----- Original Message ----
From: Michael Johnson <michael at rocksfromspace.org>
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Wed, December 23, 2009 8:01:06 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December 24, 2009

http://www.rocksfromspace.org/December_24_2009.html


______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


      



From damoclid at yahoo.com  Wed Dec 23 22:05:55 2009
From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 19:05:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Unique Meteorite with proven blood vessel remains
	(?!)
Message-ID: <965768.94041.qm@web113603.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

I guess this what you can "living rock".

http://tinyurl.com/ygktuvb


--
Richard Kowalski
http://fullmoonphotography.net
IMCA #1081


      


From starsandscopes at aol.com  Wed Dec 23 22:06:39 2009
From: starsandscopes at aol.com (starsandscopes at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 22:06:39 EST
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December
	24, 2009
Message-ID: <e824.d8c6ab3.386434bf@aol.com>



Say it aint so, Joe   Your family  doesn't love the rocks?

Same here, Tom

In a message dated  12/23/2009 7:56:55 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, 
skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com  writes:



Great photo Linton, great idea. That is what I want, but  will not get any 
of those "damn rocks" as they call them.
HAPPY  HOLIDAYS!!!
Happy New Year!
Best Wishes,
Joe  Kerchner
http://illinoismeteorites.com
http://skyrockcafe.com



-----  Original Message ----
From: Michael Johnson  <michael at rocksfromspace.org>
To:  meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Wed, December 23, 2009 8:01:06  PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December  
24,  2009

http://www.rocksfromspace.org/December_24_2009.html


______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list  mailing  list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list




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Meteorite-list  mailing  list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list   



From gmhupe at htn.net  Wed Dec 23 22:15:00 2009
From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 22:15:00 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Unique Meteorite with proven blood vessel
	remains(?!)
References: <965768.94041.qm@web113603.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <42AFE57844694010A9610742A5444EDB@Gregor>

Looks like someone's used pumice stone that's been used too hard and has 
some left over skin on it! Yuck!

Is that the perfect meteor-wrong, or what!


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Richard Kowalski" <damoclid at yahoo.com>
To: "meteorite list" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2009 10:05 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Unique Meteorite with proven blood vessel 
remains(?!)


>I guess this what you can "living rock".
>
> http://tinyurl.com/ygktuvb
>
>
> --
> Richard Kowalski
> http://fullmoonphotography.net
> IMCA #1081
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 




From minador at yahoo.com  Wed Dec 23 22:27:07 2009
From: minador at yahoo.com (Mark Bowling)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 19:27:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] park forest fall on tv now
Message-ID: <903626.21666.qm@web54501.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Hey all,

The Learning Channel is covering a segment on Park Forest....

Enjoy,
Mark


From gmhupe at htn.net  Wed Dec 23 22:31:43 2009
From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 22:31:43 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] park forest fall on tv now
References: <903626.21666.qm@web54501.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <91782D20E8DF4BFCBE4B7B3294000250@Gregor>

Hi Mark,

I was just about to post the same thing to the List, you beat me to it! 
Looks like "The Learning Channel" (TLC) will be airing this again later 
tonight for any one who misses it.  The show is called "Accidental Fortune".

I wish I could record it :-/

Best regards,
Greg

====================
Greg Hupe
The Hupe Collection
NaturesVault (eBay)
gmhupe at htn.net
www.LunarRock.com
IMCA 3163
====================
Click here for my current eBay auctions: 
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Bowling" <minador at yahoo.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2009 10:27 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] park forest fall on tv now


> Hey all,
>
> The Learning Channel is covering a segment on Park Forest....
>
> Enjoy,
> Mark
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 




From minador at yahoo.com  Wed Dec 23 22:35:22 2009
From: minador at yahoo.com (Mark Bowling)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 19:35:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] park forest fall on tv now
In-Reply-To: <91782D20E8DF4BFCBE4B7B3294000250@Gregor>
Message-ID: <932780.16435.qm@web54505.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Hey Greg,

Lol, my brother just called to let me know it would be on next.  I have a b-ball game coming on and didn't think to check if it would be shown later.  Thanks!

Anyways, I hope it brings back some good memories for those who made it out there...  It's pretty facinating!  I haven't seen most of this footage...

Bolide filled skies,
Mark

--- On Wed, 12/23/09, Greg Hupe <gmhupe at htn.net> wrote:

> From: Greg Hupe <gmhupe at htn.net>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] park forest fall on tv now
> To: "Mark Bowling" <minador at yahoo.com>, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Wednesday, December 23, 2009, 8:31 PM
> Hi Mark,
> 
> I was just about to post the same thing to the List, you
> beat me to it! Looks like "The Learning Channel" (TLC) will
> be airing this again later tonight for any one who misses
> it.? The show is called "Accidental Fortune".
> 
> I wish I could record it :-/
> 
> Best regards,
> Greg
> 
> ====================
> Greg Hupe
> The Hupe Collection
> NaturesVault (eBay)
> gmhupe at htn.net
> www.LunarRock.com
> IMCA 3163
> ====================
> Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Bowling" <minador at yahoo.com>
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2009 10:27 PM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] park forest fall on tv now
> 
> 
> > Hey all,
> > 
> > The Learning Channel is covering a segment on Park
> Forest....
> > 
> > Enjoy,
> > Mark
> > ______________________________________________
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> > 
> 
> 
> 


From gmhupe at htn.net  Wed Dec 23 22:45:48 2009
From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 22:45:48 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] park forest fall on tv now
References: <932780.16435.qm@web54505.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <B0C659E0A1FA4BDC99F216828BE7DD97@Gregor>

If anyone can record it and/or make few DVD copies of the whole "Accidental 
Fortune" show, I would like to get a few copies that I can give to a few 
friends who have some Park Forest and to keep a copy for my collection.

Does TLC offer their shows on DVD later?? I will have to check on that, but 
it would be quicker to do it the other way.

Please reply Off-List if you can do this and we can talk about details. 
Thanks in advance!

Best regards,
Greg

====================
Greg Hupe
The Hupe Collection
NaturesVault (eBay)
gmhupe at htn.net
www.LunarRock.com
IMCA 3163
====================
Click here for my current eBay auctions: 
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Bowling" <minador at yahoo.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2009 10:35 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] park forest fall on tv now


Hey Greg,

Lol, my brother just called to let me know it would be on next.  I have a 
b-ball game coming on and didn't think to check if it would be shown later. 
Thanks!

Anyways, I hope it brings back some good memories for those who made it out 
there...  It's pretty facinating!  I haven't seen most of this footage...

Bolide filled skies,
Mark

--- On Wed, 12/23/09, Greg Hupe <gmhupe at htn.net> wrote:

> From: Greg Hupe <gmhupe at htn.net>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] park forest fall on tv now
> To: "Mark Bowling" <minador at yahoo.com>, 
> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Wednesday, December 23, 2009, 8:31 PM
> Hi Mark,
>
> I was just about to post the same thing to the List, you
> beat me to it! Looks like "The Learning Channel" (TLC) will
> be airing this again later tonight for any one who misses
> it. The show is called "Accidental Fortune".
>
> I wish I could record it :-/
>
> Best regards,
> Greg
>
> ====================
> Greg Hupe
> The Hupe Collection
> NaturesVault (eBay)
> gmhupe at htn.net
> www.LunarRock.com
> IMCA 3163
> ====================
> Click here for my current eBay auctions: 
> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Bowling" <minador at yahoo.com>
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2009 10:27 PM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] park forest fall on tv now
>
>
> > Hey all,
> >
> > The Learning Channel is covering a segment on Park
> Forest....
> >
> > Enjoy,
> > Mark
> > ______________________________________________
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >
>
>
>
______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list




From oxytropidoceras at cox.net  Wed Dec 23 23:32:02 2009
From: oxytropidoceras at cox.net (Paul Heinrich)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 22:32:02 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Off-Topic, But Fun,
	Comments About Snowflakes and Christmas
Message-ID: <4B32EEC2.8060604@cox.net>

What's Wrong With This Snowflake? by Jon Hamilton
All Things Considered, NPR

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=121827582&ps=cprs

Christmas card snowflakes 'corrupt nature' by
defying laws of physics by Ian Sample, Guardian
Dec. 23, 2009

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2009/dec/23/christmas-card-snowflakes-nature-physics

Snowflakes on Christmas cards drawn wrong by
Jeanna Bryner, MSMBC

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34576934/ns/technology_and_science-science/

The correspondence is;

Koop, T., 2009, 'Snow joke as festive season
gives rise to a blizzard of fake flakes. Nature.
vol. 462, p. 985, doi:10.1038/462985a; Published
online December 23, 2009

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v462/n7276/full/462985a.html

Additional stuff:

1. A Snowflake Primer ... The basic facts about
snowflakes and snow crystals ..."

http://www.its.caltech.edu/~atomic/snowcrystals/primer/primer.htm

2. Libbrecht, K. G., 2005, The physics of snow
crystals. Reports on Progress in Physics. vol. 68,
pp. 855-895. doi:10.1088/0034-4885/68/4/R03

Dowload PDF file from

http://www.its.caltech.edu/~atomic/publist/rpp5_4_R03.pdf

3. Snow Crystals Site

http://www.its.caltech.edu/~atomic/snowcrystals/

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays Eveyone

Paul H.


From parkforestmet at hotmail.com  Wed Dec 23 23:53:49 2009
From: parkforestmet at hotmail.com (bill kies)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 22:53:49 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] park forest fall on tv now
In-Reply-To: <B0C659E0A1FA4BDC99F216828BE7DD97@Gregor>
References: <932780.16435.qm@web54505.mail.re2.yahoo.com>,
	<B0C659E0A1FA4BDC99F216828BE7DD97@Gregor>
Message-ID: <SNT102-W46FA92DEBA67D77C8DFB94A27F0@phx.gbl>


I'd enjoy a copy or copies of this program too. Contact me in the same manner, off-list
 
Bill
 


----------------------------------------
> From: gmhupe at htn.net
> To: minador at yahoo.com; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 22:45:48 -0500
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] park forest fall on tv now
>
> If anyone can record it and/or make few DVD copies of the whole "Accidental
> Fortune" show, I would like to get a few copies that I can give to a few
> friends who have some Park Forest and to keep a copy for my collection.
>
> Does TLC offer their shows on DVD later?? I will have to check on that, but
> it would be quicker to do it the other way.
>
> Please reply Off-List if you can do this and we can talk about details.
> Thanks in advance!
>
> Best regards,
> Greg
>
> ====================
> Greg Hupe
> The Hupe Collection
> NaturesVault (eBay)
> gmhupe at htn.net
> www.LunarRock.com
> IMCA 3163
> ====================
> Click here for my current eBay auctions:
> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark Bowling" 
> To: 
> Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2009 10:35 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] park forest fall on tv now
>
>
> Hey Greg,
>
> Lol, my brother just called to let me know it would be on next. I have a
> b-ball game coming on and didn't think to check if it would be shown later.
> Thanks!
>
> Anyways, I hope it brings back some good memories for those who made it out
> there... It's pretty facinating! I haven't seen most of this footage...
>
> Bolide filled skies,
> Mark
>
> --- On Wed, 12/23/09, Greg Hupe wrote:
>
>> From: Greg Hupe 
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] park forest fall on tv now
>> To: "Mark Bowling" ,
>> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Date: Wednesday, December 23, 2009, 8:31 PM
>> Hi Mark,
>>
>> I was just about to post the same thing to the List, you
>> beat me to it! Looks like "The Learning Channel" (TLC) will
>> be airing this again later tonight for any one who misses
>> it. The show is called "Accidental Fortune".
>>
>> I wish I could record it :-/
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Greg
>>
>> ====================
>> Greg Hupe
>> The Hupe Collection
>> NaturesVault (eBay)
>> gmhupe at htn.net
>> www.LunarRock.com
>> IMCA 3163
>> ====================
>> Click here for my current eBay auctions:
>> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Bowling" 
>> To: 
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2009 10:27 PM
>> Subject: [meteorite-list] park forest fall on tv now
>>
>>
>>> Hey all,
>>>
>>> The Learning Channel is covering a segment on Park
>> Forest....
>>>
>>> Enjoy,
>>> Mark
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>>
>>
>>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141665/direct/01/

From nakhladog at comcast.net  Thu Dec 24 01:37:44 2009
From: nakhladog at comcast.net (Rob Wesel - Mobile Device)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 22:37:44 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Test
Message-ID: <lol1cirsgdkcpy9r7gq517jm.1261636664446@email.android.com>




From lintonius at earthlink.net  Thu Dec 24 03:24:15 2009
From: lintonius at earthlink.net (Linton Rohr)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 00:24:15 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day -
	December24, 2009
References: <368101.65332.qm@web39601.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CEF5B7924E4F46298C92EBF9D642CD1E@D190TH71>

Thank you gentlemen.
I was hoping you'd enjoy my effort. It was fun putting it together.
There's still a little kid in me somewhere, trying to have fun.
Thanks to Michael as well, for letting the kid out to play. ;^)
Linton

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Robert Woolard" <meteoritefinder at yahoo.com>
To: "Michael Johnson" <michael at rocksfromspace.org>
Cc: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2009 6:22 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - 
December24, 2009


> Michael and Linton,
>
>  Great Pic of the Day. Very clever. Thanks guys for sharing this with us 
> all. Keep up the good work in the coming year, Michael!
>
>  Best wishes,
>  Robert Woolard
>
>
> --- On Wed, 12/23/09, Michael Johnson <michael at rocksfromspace.org> wrote:
>
>> From: Michael Johnson <michael at rocksfromspace.org>
>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December 
>> 24, 2009
>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Date: Wednesday, December 23, 2009, 8:01 PM
>> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/December_24_2009.html
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 



From ensoramanda at ntlworld.com  Thu Dec 24 06:04:39 2009
From: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com (ensoramanda at ntlworld.com)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 11:04:39 +0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] park forest fall on tv now
In-Reply-To: <B0C659E0A1FA4BDC99F216828BE7DD97@Gregor>
Message-ID: <20091224110439.KF4QZ.539369.root@web05-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com>

Happy Barwellmas ;-)

Or upload the tv prog somewhere that us folks in the other remote parts of the Universe can access it (with a link on the list)...then that would be marvelous.

Just a thought that as Tucson is always after Christmas then family can't browse around for presents...so all you dealers are missing out (and collectors for that matter)....surprised I havn't seen seen some of you selling meteorite gift vouchers!!!!...would work online too?....as most family have no idea what to buy in the form of a meteorite for their loved one then that would help everybody out :-)

Hope everyone has an excellent festive break before the build up to Tucson.

Graham...nr Barwell, UK

---- Greg Hupe <gmhupe at htn.net> wrote: 
> If anyone can record it and/or make few DVD copies of the whole "Accidental 
> Fortune" show, I would like to get a few copies that I can give to a few 
> friends who have some Park Forest and to keep a copy for my collection.
> 
> Does TLC offer their shows on DVD later?? I will have to check on that, but 
> it would be quicker to do it the other way.
> 
> Please reply Off-List if you can do this and we can talk about details. 
> Thanks in advance!
> 
> Best regards,
> Greg
> 
> ====================
> Greg Hupe
> The Hupe Collection
> NaturesVault (eBay)
> gmhupe at htn.net
> www.LunarRock.com
> IMCA 3163
> ====================
> Click here for my current eBay auctions: 
> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Mark Bowling" <minador at yahoo.com>
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2009 10:35 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] park forest fall on tv now
> 
> 
> Hey Greg,
> 
> Lol, my brother just called to let me know it would be on next.  I have a 
> b-ball game coming on and didn't think to check if it would be shown later. 
> Thanks!
> 
> Anyways, I hope it brings back some good memories for those who made it out 
> there...  It's pretty facinating!  I haven't seen most of this footage...
> 
> Bolide filled skies,
> Mark
> 
> --- On Wed, 12/23/09, Greg Hupe <gmhupe at htn.net> wrote:
> 
> > From: Greg Hupe <gmhupe at htn.net>
> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] park forest fall on tv now
> > To: "Mark Bowling" <minador at yahoo.com>, 
> > meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > Date: Wednesday, December 23, 2009, 8:31 PM
> > Hi Mark,
> >
> > I was just about to post the same thing to the List, you
> > beat me to it! Looks like "The Learning Channel" (TLC) will
> > be airing this again later tonight for any one who misses
> > it. The show is called "Accidental Fortune".
> >
> > I wish I could record it :-/
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Greg
> >
> > ====================
> > Greg Hupe
> > The Hupe Collection
> > NaturesVault (eBay)
> > gmhupe at htn.net
> > www.LunarRock.com
> > IMCA 3163
> > ====================
> > Click here for my current eBay auctions: 
> > http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Bowling" <minador at yahoo.com>
> > To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2009 10:27 PM
> > Subject: [meteorite-list] park forest fall on tv now
> >
> >
> > > Hey all,
> > >
> > > The Learning Channel is covering a segment on Park
> > Forest....
> > >
> > > Enjoy,
> > > Mark
> > > ______________________________________________
> > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> > > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From dave at fallingrocks.com  Thu Dec 24 09:02:31 2009
From: dave at fallingrocks.com (Dave Gheesling)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 09:02:31 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day -
	December24, 2009
In-Reply-To: <CEF5B7924E4F46298C92EBF9D642CD1E@D190TH71>
References: <368101.65332.qm@web39601.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<CEF5B7924E4F46298C92EBF9D642CD1E@D190TH71>
Message-ID: <F928A83C0EF347238462BA6B0429ABBE@meteorroom>

Hilarious things are rooted in truth Linton, and that one was an absolute
classic!  No way in the world I'll ever show it to my family, however, for
at the moment I think they're convinced that every other collector on the
planet has nothing but the most enthusiastic support from their families --
that they just LOVE seeing those heavy boxes hit the front door.  Shhhhh...
;-)

Happy Holidays!

Dave
www.fallingrocks.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Linton Rohr [mailto:lintonius at earthlink.net] 
Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 3:24 AM
To: Robert Woolard; GREG LINDH; Joe Kerchner; dave at fallingrocks.com
Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day -
December24, 2009

Thank you gentlemen.
I was hoping you'd enjoy my effort. It was fun putting it together.
There's still a little kid in me somewhere, trying to have fun.
Thanks to Michael as well, for letting the kid out to play. ;^) Linton

----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Woolard" <meteoritefinder at yahoo.com>
To: "Michael Johnson" <michael at rocksfromspace.org>
Cc: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2009 6:22 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day -
December24, 2009


> Michael and Linton,
>
>  Great Pic of the Day. Very clever. Thanks guys for sharing this with 
> us all. Keep up the good work in the coming year, Michael!
>
>  Best wishes,
>  Robert Woolard
>
>
> --- On Wed, 12/23/09, Michael Johnson <michael at rocksfromspace.org> wrote:
>
>> From: Michael Johnson <michael at rocksfromspace.org>
>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - 
>> December 24, 2009
>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Date: Wednesday, December 23, 2009, 8:01 PM 
>> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/December_24_2009.html
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 




From bobl at peaktopeak.com  Thu Dec 24 11:17:15 2009
From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 09:17:15 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day
	-December24, 2009
In-Reply-To: <CEF5B7924E4F46298C92EBF9D642CD1E@D190TH71>
Message-ID: <20091224161717.712A0105A1@mailwash5.pair.com>

Well done, Linton!  It looks very realistic.  I even see a little bit of
rust (or dirt), just like the real shopping carts/baskets/buggies that we
have in our stores.  :-)

Bob


-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Linton
Rohr
Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 1:24 AM
To: Robert Woolard; GREG LINDH; Joe Kerchner; dave at fallingrocks.com
Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day
-December24, 2009

Thank you gentlemen.
I was hoping you'd enjoy my effort. It was fun putting it together.
There's still a little kid in me somewhere, trying to have fun.
Thanks to Michael as well, for letting the kid out to play. ;^)
Linton

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Robert Woolard" <meteoritefinder at yahoo.com>
To: "Michael Johnson" <michael at rocksfromspace.org>
Cc: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2009 6:22 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - 
December24, 2009


> Michael and Linton,
>
>  Great Pic of the Day. Very clever. Thanks guys for sharing this with us 
> all. Keep up the good work in the coming year, Michael!
>
>  Best wishes,
>  Robert Woolard
>
>
> --- On Wed, 12/23/09, Michael Johnson <michael at rocksfromspace.org> wrote:
>
>> From: Michael Johnson <michael at rocksfromspace.org>
>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December 
>> 24, 2009
>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Date: Wednesday, December 23, 2009, 8:01 PM
>> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/December_24_2009.html
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 

______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
Version: 9.0.722 / Virus Database: 270.14.117/2583 - Release Date: 12/23/09
01:28:00



From wahlperry at aol.com  Thu Dec 24 11:30:37 2009
From: wahlperry at aol.com (wahlperry at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 11:30:37 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Happy Holidays!
Message-ID: <8CC52CD8F00E284-2E54-26A33@webmail-d093.sysops.aol.com>

Hi List,

Happy Holidays to all of our friends around the world. May you all find 
meteorites in your stockings, even if you have been naughty! 2009 has 
been a wonderful year for new meteorite discoveries. I wonder what 2010 
will bring. I just hope I find it before Ruben does! ; )

Sonny Clary


From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com  Thu Dec 24 11:52:11 2009
From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 08:52:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Seasons Greetings
In-Reply-To: <8CC52CD8F00E284-2E54-26A33@webmail-d093.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <60285.71422.qm@web46415.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

I would like to send my best wishes out to everyone.
I hope your holidays are safe, happy and full of good things.

Merry Christmas to all who celebrate! 
Happy ______________ (insert your holiday)to everyone else!

Hope everyone gets the "Red Ryder carbine-action, two hundred shot Range Model air rifle with a compass in the stock and a thing which tells time"
that they are wanting this year... just be careful not to shoot your eye out.

Greg C.





--- On Thu, 12/24/09, wahlperry at aol.com <wahlperry at aol.com> wrote:

> From: wahlperry at aol.com <wahlperry at aol.com>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Happy Holidays!
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Thursday, December 24, 2009, 11:30 AM
> Hi List,
> 
> Happy Holidays to all of our friends around the world. May
> you all find meteorites in your stockings, even if you have
> been naughty! 2009 has been a wonderful year for new
> meteorite discoveries. I wonder what 2010 will bring. I just
> hope I find it before Ruben does! ; )
> 
> Sonny Clary
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      


From meteoriteplaya at gmail.com  Thu Dec 24 11:58:37 2009
From: meteoriteplaya at gmail.com (Mike Jensen)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 09:58:37 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Merry Christmas ! Harvey Nininger Signed book
	ending today! AD
In-Reply-To: <822da19a0912230731n4426f14erdef69dadfb034679@mail.gmail.com>
References: <25535.51499.qm@web63202.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
	<822da19a0912230731n4426f14erdef69dadfb034679@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6f9da8300912240858i495a91dbp344d537042012efd@mail.gmail.com>

Hi John and Martin
I remember both of those books rather well since I sold both of them a
few years ago. They came out of a collection of books from Tom Palmer
a well known mineral dealer from El Paso Texas;
http://www.minrec.org/labels.asp?colid=808
That is what the TP stands for in the upper right corner of Martin's image.

He had the largest collection of signed Nininger books I have ever
seen. He also had what I would call a complete set of signed books.
Here is the set of his books;
http://jensenmeteorites.com/BookNiningerSet.htm
I sold it as well to a fellow list member.

I remember the signed book that John had as it had Nininger's original
signature traced over.  I believe this tracing was done much later and
not by Nininger as I found a paper in with Palmer's stuff that used
the same color ink pen. The paper was covered with several obviously
forged Nininger signatures. I did disclose my suspicions of the
tracing to the person I sold the book to. It obviously it was not
John.
Tom also had another inscribed book but it did not have Nininger's
signature. I guessed Nininger was in the process of signing the book
but then got to talking about meteorites and just forgot to finish it.
Unfortunately the book had an obviously forged signature in the same
color ink and style as the Palmer paper but not the same color ink as
the inscribed portion. I'm not saying that Tom Palmer forged the
signature just that the practice signatures paper in his estate seemed
to match the signature in the book. I sold the book as an unsigned
copy with a forged signature.

Mike



Mike Jensen Meteorites
16730 E Ada PL
Aurora, CO 80017-3137
USA
720-949-6220
IMCA 4264
website: www.jensenmeteorites.com




On Wed, Dec 23, 2009 at 8:31 AM, Dark Matter <freequarks at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi John,
>
> Interesting autograph. I have not seen a double signed Nininger like
> that before.
>
> However, I have seen, and in fact, own one myself, a double signed
> Nininger book with two distinct signatures. Here's a pic:
>
> http://www.meteorite-times.com/Back_Links/2003/October/nininger.jpg
>
> Also, since you have an interest in Nininger signings, here's an
> inscription he wrote to Chuck Lewis that shows some of the wonderful
> personality of H.H. himself. It's in one of my copies of Find a
> Falling Star.
>
> http://www.meteorite-times.com/Back_Links/2003/December/ning_fafs_insc_best.jpg
>
> To "some of the thrills..."
>
> -Martin
>
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 23, 2009 at 8:01 AM, John higgins <geohiggins at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Merry Christmas all my meteorite friends! Harvey Nininger Signed book ending today! AD
>>
>> Hello, first of all i would like to wish you all a very warm, Happy?Merry Christmas, lets make it a great one this year!
>>
>> I have some auctions ending today and tomorrow on E-bay
>>
>> First on the Agenda is Harvey Nininger Autographed book, it's an original from 1952 that I purchased from the owner in Leipzig, Germany. Book is in great shape, just little wear and tear on the top and bottom of jacket.
>> There is a reserve, but to be honest, I think it's super?low considering it took me my whole life to find this one, and it's the only one I was ever able to acquire. Not only did he sign, but he even dated this book! making it incredibly rare, and who else in the world can say they own a original?book signed by the greatest meteorite researcher in history, and he signed it twice! First in blue ink, then went over it again in black ink?to make sure it would?stand the test of time, and?on the specific date?May 21, 1952. Simply one of a kind.
>> Also express shipping is?free of course!
>> Just a little side note of events that happened on this day in history:
>> Famous people born on May 21st
>> 427 BC?Plato (philosopher)
>> 1427 Albrecht Durer?(painter, engraver, mathematician)
>> 1688 Alexander Pope (poet)
>> 1844 Henri Rosseau (artist)
>> 1917 Raymond Burr (actor)
>> 1921 Andre Sakharov (physicist, human rights activist)
>> 1951 Al Franken (comedian)
>> 1952 Mr T. (actor)
>> 1956 Judge Reinhold (actor)
>> 1972 Notorious BIG (rapper)
>> Another thing:
>> 1881 American Red Cross established.
>> 1927 Charles Lindbergh completes the first solo flight across the Atlantic
>>
>>
>> If you are interested you can find the auction here:
>>
>> http://cgi.ebay.com/Harvey-Nininger-autographed-book-Out-of-the-sky-1952_W0QQitemZ380190630961QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item588520a431
>>
>>
>> And I also?have Unclassified NWA meteorites ending tomorrow, all with free shipping, currently all under cost!
>> You can find them?in my e-bay?store Outer Space Rocks
>>
>> http://stores.ebay.com/Outer-Space-Rocks
>>
>> Thanks for looking!
>> And Have a Great Day!
>> John Higgins IMCA#9822
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


From lintonius at earthlink.net  Thu Dec 24 13:38:55 2009
From: lintonius at earthlink.net (Linton Rohr)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 10:38:55 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Happy Holidays! - Naughty or Nice?
References: <8CC52CD8F00E284-2E54-26A33@webmail-d093.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <C4C20006CC6342E48EF3BB83D8CB30AF@D190TH71>

Thanks Sonny.
Naughty would be an understatement, if my wife found out how much I've spent 
on meteorites lately! I'd have to explain that that they were all "on sale". 
And now I've got pretty respectable pieces of Claxton, Gujba, Peekskill, 
Bondoc, NWA 5000, Lost City, and D'Orbigny. All from list members. So, I 
might be a little *naughty*, but my collection is much more *nice*! <g>
Best wishes to all!
Linton

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <wahlperry at aol.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 8:30 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Happy Holidays!


> Hi List,
>
> Happy Holidays to all of our friends around the world. May you all find 
> meteorites in your stockings, even if you have been naughty! 2009 has been 
> a wonderful year for new meteorite discoveries. I wonder what 2010 will 
> bring. I just hope I find it before Ruben does! ; )
>
> Sonny Clary
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 



From azizhabibi at yahoo.com  Thu Dec 24 15:04:59 2009
From: azizhabibi at yahoo.com (habibi abdelaziz)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 12:04:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] merry christmas and enjoy photo
Message-ID: <223519.10566.qm@web62002.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

merry? christmas to all?. full of happyness and peace,

enjoy this photos,? this 200 gr stone is very magnetic has some chondrule or compressed chondule,

but its highly crystalised to a point you will think its a diogenite,
very beautyful

?http://www.flickr.com/photos/azizhabibi/

happy holidays

aziz habibi


      


From ROBERT.D.MATSON at saic.com  Thu Dec 24 15:11:50 2009
From: ROBERT.D.MATSON at saic.com (Matson, Robert D.)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 12:11:50 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Movie of asteroid (195998) SkipWilson
In-Reply-To: <200912231926.nBNJQa60018260@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>
References: <200912231926.nBNJQa60018260@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>
Message-ID: <7C640E28081AEE4B952F008D1E913F17026522A4@0461-its-exmb04.us.saic.com>

Hi All,

I put together a short clip showing Skip Wilson's namesake asteroid
as it appeared in a triplet of images taken at Palomar on September 14,
2002:

http://members.cox.net/mojave_meteorites/skip_movie.avi 

(The discovery images were from September 1, 2002, at Haleakala, but
Skip's asteroid shows up best in the 9/14 images.)  Set your media
player to "repeat" in order to better follow the motion of the minor
planet against the background stars.  Recapping the asteroid citation:

>From Minor Planet Circular 67220:

(195998) Skipwilson = 2002 RO235
     Ivan "Skip" Wilson (b. 1941) is a pioneer of systematic meteorite
recovery.  He has found over 100 distinct meteorites in the blowouts of
eastern New Mexico since 1966, and he witnessed and recovered the 1998
Portales Valley fall.  He has coauthored papers about meteorite
accumulation
rates and pairing.

Merry Christmas all,

Rob


From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Thu Dec 24 15:31:20 2009
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 12:31:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] MRO HiRISE Images - December 23, 2009
Message-ID: <200912242031.nBOKVKIM001287@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>



MARS RECONNAISSANCE ORBITER HIRISE IMAGES
December 23, 2009

o Dark Sand and Bright Bedrock in Terra Meridiani 
  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_001493_1815

o Edge Along Gale Crater Interior Mound
  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_001488_1750

o Exposure of Polar Layered Deposits with Unconformities
  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_001398_2615

o Bouncing Boulders
  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_001385_1985

o Search for Mars Polar Lander
  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_014423_1040

o Gullies on the Northwest Rim of Hale Crater
  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_014074_1445
 
o The Dark Spot on Mars
  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_013951_1955


All of the HiRISE images are archived here:

http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/

Information about the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter is 
online at http://www.nasa.gov/mro. The mission is 
managed by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, a division 
of the California Institute of Technology, for the NASA 
Science Mission Directorate, Washington, D.C. Lockheed 
Martin Space Systems, of Denver, is the prime contractor 
and built the spacecraft. HiRISE is operated by the 
University of Arizona. Ball Aerospace and Technologies 
Corp., of Boulder, Colo., built the HiRISE instrument.



From meteoriteman at comcast.net  Thu Dec 24 16:21:55 2009
From: meteoriteman at comcast.net (meteoriteman at comcast.net)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 21:21:55 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [meteorite-list] park forest fall on tv now
Message-ID: <44610096.4685511261689715692.JavaMail.root@sz0098a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>


I'd also like a copy of that program. Off-list please.

Jim K


From Impactika at aol.com  Thu Dec 24 17:08:12 2009
From: Impactika at aol.com (Impactika at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 17:08:12 EST
Subject: [meteorite-list] Happy Holidays!
Message-ID: <c48.4ff9b02a.3865404c@aol.com>

Thank you Sonny,

May you all have a quiet relaxing and fun Holiday Season.
And best wishes for the New Year.
May 2010 be a whole lot better than 2009.

Anne M. Black
www.IMPACTIKA.com
IMPACTIKA at aol.com
Vice-President of IMCA
_www.IMCA.cc_ (http://www.IMCA.cc)  




In a message dated 12/24/2009 9:31:25 AM Mountain Standard Time, 
wahlperry at aol.com writes:
Hi List,

Happy Holidays to all of our friends around the world. May you all find 
meteorites in your stockings, even if you have been naughty! 2009 has 
been a wonderful year for new meteorite discoveries. I wonder what 2010 
will bring. I just hope I find it before Ruben does! ; )

Sonny Clary


From fujmon at mac.com  Thu Dec 24 18:02:12 2009
From: fujmon at mac.com (Gary Fujihara)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 13:02:12 -1000
Subject: [meteorite-list] Mele Kalikimaka
Message-ID: <48F2A523-563D-4915-9115-6C66E4CABB5C@mac.com>

Aloha listees,

It has been a wonderful year for me, acquiring new friends from around the world, and new specimens from around the solar system.  Along the way, there have been a couple of mysteries, a sprinkling of surprises, some intrigue, a few tragedies and a whole lotta laughs.  I'm not asking Santa for anything this year ... but not because I've been a naughty boy (I've been at times), but because I have just about everything I could ever need.  Mahalo nui loa e kakou - thank you everybody.  I hope you all have a great holiday season, and may the new year bring you health, happiness, and a new oriented lunar to your back lawn.

Mele Kalikimaka a me ka Hau'oli Makahiki Hou!
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!

Gary Fujihara
Big Kahuna Meteorites (IMCA#1693)
105 Puhili Place, Hilo, Hawaii 96720
(808) 640-9161



From romanj at sympatico.ca  Thu Dec 24 18:26:34 2009
From: romanj at sympatico.ca (Roman Jirasek)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 18:26:34 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Merry Christmas from Meteorite Labels
References: <8CC52CD8F00E284-2E54-26A33@webmail-d093.sysops.aol.com>
	<C4C20006CC6342E48EF3BB83D8CB30AF@D190TH71>
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP317B7FF4949ABFD538D5B2A47F0@phx.gbl>

Merry Christmas to all from Meteorite Labels.

Cheers,

Roman Jirasek
www.meteoritelabels.com







From geohiggins at yahoo.com  Thu Dec 24 18:45:11 2009
From: geohiggins at yahoo.com (John higgins)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 15:45:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: Merry Christmas ! Harvey Nininger Signed book
	ending today! AD
In-Reply-To: <6f9da8300912240858i495a91dbp344d537042012efd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <25535.51499.qm@web63202.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
	<822da19a0912230731n4426f14erdef69dadfb034679@mail.gmail.com>
	<6f9da8300912240858i495a91dbp344d537042012efd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <235877.81843.qm@web63207.mail.re1.yahoo.com>


Hi Mike and Martin,
Wow that's some story, this book has some history now, maybe it's even worth more with the original signature and the speculation of the enhanced signature overwritten in black, you know what they say there's no such thing as bad publicity but maybe that's just wishful thinking since its now a suspected forgery.?Thank you for?preventing any tarnish to my?reputation. Either way If I found?that there was any speculation after the book was sold, I ?would have given a full refund to the winner.?And to that note,?Im sorry?this book is no longer for sale.?Before I thought it was an unusually signed Nininger?book, but now?the plot thickens.?Mike do you remenber who you sold it to??Did you sell?the book?to?someone in Germany, where i purchased the book from Hiele Arendt?who resided in?Leipzig. And I wonder how much he bought the book for.... But so far this book has been in the Palmer collection, the Jensen collection, and the Higgins
collection, I wonder how many colletions this book has passed through. As far as im concerned, this is the most exciting book I ever owned! Thanks for the?information!?
Warmest Wishes,
And Merry Christmas to you all
John Higgins IMCA 9822





----- Original Message ----
From: Mike Jensen <meteoriteplaya at gmail.com>
To: Dark Matter <freequarks at gmail.com>
Cc: John higgins <geohiggins at yahoo.com>; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Thu, December 24, 2009 11:58:37 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Merry Christmas ! Harvey Nininger Signed book ending today! AD

Hi John and Martin
I remember both of those books rather well since I sold both of them a
few years ago. They came out of a collection of books from Tom Palmer
a well known mineral dealer from El Paso Texas;
http://www.minrec.org/labels.asp?colid=808
That is what the TP stands for in the upper right corner of Martin's image.

He had the largest collection of signed Nininger books I have ever
seen. He also had what I would call a complete set of signed books.
Here is the set of his books;
http://jensenmeteorites.com/BookNiningerSet.htm
I sold it as well to a fellow list member.

I remember the signed book that John had as it had Nininger's original
signature traced over.? I believe this tracing was done much later and
not by Nininger as I found a paper in with Palmer's stuff that used
the same color ink pen. The paper was covered with several obviously
forged Nininger signatures. I did disclose my suspicions of the
tracing to the person I sold the book to. It obviously it was not
John.
Tom also had another inscribed book but it did not have Nininger's
signature. I guessed Nininger was in the process of signing the book
but then got to talking about meteorites and just forgot to finish it.
Unfortunately the book had an obviously forged signature in the same
color ink and style as the Palmer paper but not the same color ink as
the inscribed portion. I'm not saying that Tom Palmer forged the
signature just that the practice signatures paper in his estate seemed
to match the signature in the book. I sold the book as an unsigned
copy with a forged signature.

Mike



Mike Jensen Meteorites
16730 E Ada PL
Aurora, CO 80017-3137
USA
720-949-6220
IMCA 4264
website: www.jensenmeteorites.com




On Wed, Dec 23, 2009 at 8:31 AM, Dark Matter <freequarks at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi John,
>
> Interesting autograph. I have not seen a double signed Nininger like
> that before.
>
> However, I have seen, and in fact, own one myself, a double signed
> Nininger book with two distinct signatures. Here's a pic:
>
> http://www.meteorite-times.com/Back_Links/2003/October/nininger.jpg
>
> Also, since you have an interest in Nininger signings, here's an
> inscription he wrote to Chuck Lewis that shows some of the wonderful
> personality of H.H. himself. It's in one of my copies of Find a
> Falling Star.
>
> http://www.meteorite-times.com/Back_Links/2003/December/ning_fafs_insc_best.jpg
>
> To "some of the thrills..."
>
> -Martin
>
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 23, 2009 at 8:01 AM, John higgins <geohiggins at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Merry Christmas all my meteorite friends! Harvey Nininger Signed book ending today! AD
>>
>> Hello, first of all i would like to wish you all a very warm, Happy?Merry Christmas, lets make it a great one this year!
>>
>> I have some auctions ending today and tomorrow on E-bay
>>
>> First on the Agenda is Harvey Nininger Autographed book, it's an original from 1952 that I purchased from the owner in Leipzig, Germany. Book is in great shape, just little wear and tear on the top and bottom of jacket.
>> There is a reserve, but to be honest, I think it's super?low considering it took me my whole life to find this one, and it's the only one I was ever able to acquire. Not only did he sign, but he even dated this book! making it incredibly rare, and who else in the world can say they own a original?book signed by the greatest meteorite researcher in history, and he signed it twice! First in blue ink, then went over it again in black ink?to make sure it would?stand the test of time, and?on the specific date?May 21, 1952. Simply one of a kind.
>> Also express shipping is?free of course!
>> Just a little side note of events that happened on this day in history:
>> Famous people born on May 21st
>> 427 BC?Plato (philosopher)
>> 1427 Albrecht Durer?(painter, engraver, mathematician)
>> 1688 Alexander Pope (poet)
>> 1844 Henri Rosseau (artist)
>> 1917 Raymond Burr (actor)
>> 1921 Andre Sakharov (physicist, human rights activist)
>> 1951 Al Franken (comedian)
>> 1952 Mr T. (actor)
>> 1956 Judge Reinhold (actor)
>> 1972 Notorious BIG (rapper)
>> Another thing:
>> 1881 American Red Cross established.
>> 1927 Charles Lindbergh completes the first solo flight across the Atlantic
>>
>>
>> If you are interested you can find the auction here:
>>
>> http://cgi.ebay.com/Harvey-Nininger-autographed-book-Out-of-the-sky-1952_W0QQitemZ380190630961QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item588520a431
>>
>>
>> And I also?have Unclassified NWA meteorites ending tomorrow, all with free shipping, currently all under cost!
>> You can find them?in my e-bay?store Outer Space Rocks
>>
>> http://stores.ebay.com/Outer-Space-Rocks
>>
>> Thanks for looking!
>> And Have a Great Day!
>> John Higgins IMCA#9822
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


      


From tett at rogers.com  Thu Dec 24 18:53:27 2009
From: tett at rogers.com (tett)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 18:53:27 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Merry Christmas from Meteorite Labels
In-Reply-To: <BLU0-SMTP317B7FF4949ABFD538D5B2A47F0@phx.gbl>
References: <8CC52CD8F00E284-2E54-26A33@webmail-d093.sysops.aol.com>	<C4C20006CC6342E48EF3BB83D8CB30AF@D190TH71>
	<BLU0-SMTP317B7FF4949ABFD538D5B2A47F0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4B33FEF7.7040604@rogers.com>

Merry Christmas all!

Merry Christmas Roman!

Mike


Roman Jirasek wrote:
> Merry Christmas to all from Meteorite Labels.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Roman Jirasek
> www.meteoritelabels.com
>
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>



From meteorites at optushome.com.au  Thu Dec 24 19:17:20 2009
From: meteorites at optushome.com.au (Norbert & Heike Kammel)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 11:17:20 +1100
Subject: [meteorite-list] Merry Christmas!
Message-ID: <4B340490.3030704@optushome.com.au>


We like to thank all our dear friends and valued customers
for the true friendship and trust you have bestowed upon us all these 
years.

We are wishing you all *
*


  *a very Merry Christmas and*


  *a Happy and Prosperous New Year 2010!*

*
**Norbert & Heike Kammel
ROCKS ON FIRE
**www.rocksonfire.com*/

/Phone/Fax: +61 3 9774 8771
e-Mail: /info at rocksonfire.com/








From geoking at notkin.net  Thu Dec 24 19:32:11 2009
From: geoking at notkin.net (Notkin)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 17:32:11 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] "Meteorite" Magazine + Season's Greetings
Message-ID: <89AE3F9D-135A-4891-BE62-72EB2159230C@notkin.net>

Dear Listees:

Season's greetings from Tucson. I know we'll be seeing many of you  
here in just over a month! Tucson 2010: The Year We Made Contact  : )   
That's one for the Arthur C. Clarke fans.

As this year draws to a close, I'd like to thank Nancy and Larry  
Lebofsky (editors), Jessica Park (design), the editorial advisory  
board, the production team, and all the writers and photographers who  
have given us another fine year of "Meteorite" magazine. I recently  
received the most recent issue, and the tribute to the late, great O.  
Richard Norton is excellent.

Yesterday, I realized that there are about twice as many subscribers  
to the M-List as there are subscribers to "Meteorite." If you are not  
a magazine subscriber, may I ask why not? : )  "Meteorite" is a unique  
and outstanding publication and many or most of those who are involved  
in producing it play their part strictly for the love of it (i.e. they  
work on a pro-bono basis). "Meteorite" needs your support. Let's see  
it grow and become even better in 2010.

You can subscribe via the website:

http://meteoritemag.uark.edu


And a few other people who deserve a special tip of the hat for giving  
selflessly to the meteorite community all year long:

The IMCA Board of Directors
Art Jones, founder of the Meteorite List
Paul Harris and Jim Tobin of "Meteorite Times"
Bob Falls and the Encyclopedia of Meteorites
Michael Johnson and RFSPOD

Thank you all.


Respectfully,

Geoff N.
www.aerolite.org
www.meteoritemen.com
www.meteoriteblog.org


From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Thu Dec 24 19:45:04 2009
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 19:45:04 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] "Meteorite" Magazine + Season's Greetings
In-Reply-To: <89AE3F9D-135A-4891-BE62-72EB2159230C@notkin.net>
References: <89AE3F9D-135A-4891-BE62-72EB2159230C@notkin.net>
Message-ID: <e51421550912241645i229f7b7ckf0424c8e6dd542f1@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Geoff and List,

I agree on all points.  Every collector should subscribe to Meteorite
Magazine and every advanced collector should join the Meteoritical
Society.  The former is the best resource for the meteorite enthusiast
and the latter provides MAPS, which is the best learning tool for
those interested in learning more about meteoritics.

Best regards and Happy Festivus!

MikeG

On 12/24/09, Notkin <geoking at notkin.net> wrote:
> Dear Listees:
>
> Season's greetings from Tucson. I know we'll be seeing many of you
> here in just over a month! Tucson 2010: The Year We Made Contact  : )
> That's one for the Arthur C. Clarke fans.
>
> As this year draws to a close, I'd like to thank Nancy and Larry
> Lebofsky (editors), Jessica Park (design), the editorial advisory
> board, the production team, and all the writers and photographers who
> have given us another fine year of "Meteorite" magazine. I recently
> received the most recent issue, and the tribute to the late, great O.
> Richard Norton is excellent.
>
> Yesterday, I realized that there are about twice as many subscribers
> to the M-List as there are subscribers to "Meteorite." If you are not
> a magazine subscriber, may I ask why not? : )  "Meteorite" is a unique
> and outstanding publication and many or most of those who are involved
> in producing it play their part strictly for the love of it (i.e. they
> work on a pro-bono basis). "Meteorite" needs your support. Let's see
> it grow and become even better in 2010.
>
> You can subscribe via the website:
>
> http://meteoritemag.uark.edu
>
>
> And a few other people who deserve a special tip of the hat for giving
> selflessly to the meteorite community all year long:
>
> The IMCA Board of Directors
> Art Jones, founder of the Meteorite List
> Paul Harris and Jim Tobin of "Meteorite Times"
> Bob Falls and the Encyclopedia of Meteorites
> Michael Johnson and RFSPOD
>
> Thank you all.
>
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Geoff N.
> www.aerolite.org
> www.meteoritemen.com
> www.meteoriteblog.org
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


-- 
.........................................................
Michael Gilmer (Florida, USA)
Member of the Meteoritical Society.
Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com
FaceBook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale
Twitter - Twitter - http://twitter.com/GalacticStone
eBay - http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/maypickle
..........................................................


From countdeiro at earthlink.net  Thu Dec 24 19:51:55 2009
From: countdeiro at earthlink.net (countdeiro at earthlink.net)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 19:51:55 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Buon Natale (Merry Christmas!)
Message-ID: <1104065.1261702315307.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Buon Natale a tutti sull'Elenco. (Merry Christmas to all on the List.)

Conte Guido Deiro e famiglia


From waltbranch at bellsouth.net  Thu Dec 24 20:14:29 2009
From: waltbranch at bellsouth.net (Walter Branch)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 20:14:29 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Merry Christmas Everyone
References: <89AE3F9D-135A-4891-BE62-72EB2159230C@notkin.net>
	<e51421550912241645i229f7b7ckf0424c8e6dd542f1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <005e01ca84ff$9c11f570$0202a8c0@yourf78bf48ce2>

Hello Everyone,

I just wanted to wish everyone on the Meteorite List a Merry Christmas

I have been absent from meteorites for much of this year as I wantd to 
complete some astronomy projects in celibration of 2009 being the 
International year of Astronomy.

http://www.astronomy2009.org/

It was in 1609 when Galileo first turned a home made telescope upon the 
heavens and began systematically observing objects in space.  The next year, 
he published Sidereus Nuncius (Sidereal or Starry Messenger) and changed the 
course of Astronomy forever.

http://www-history.mcs.st-and.ac.uk/Biographies/Galileo.html

Anyway, Merry Christmas and I hope 2010 is a pleasant and peaceful year for 
us all.

-Walter Branch





From epgrondine at yahoo.com  Thu Dec 24 20:30:08 2009
From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 17:30:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Signed copies
Message-ID: <260925.87568.qm@web36908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi all - 

Amazingly enough, I had a box of books lifted from me in 2006, and whoever did it, then had the audacity to sign them, and offer them as signed copies.

Generally, my own signed copies are now signed to the recipient. 

Representative Boehlert's copy has been over at amazon for $70, and it is IMO a good buy at that price. One of the finest public servants I ever met, and it's too bad he did not run for senate.

As always, meteorite list members can contact me for the personally signed copy special. Sorry, but as the impacts were mostly cometary, it's not a field guide to meteorite hunting sites; and as its length was so long, I could not even include Native American meteorite lore.

good hunting, 
and a better year ahead for all,
E.P. Grondine
Man and Impact in the Americas


      


From gmhupe at htn.net  Thu Dec 24 20:37:47 2009
From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 20:37:47 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Wishing the Best from Florida
Message-ID: <93AD0AEEA8C44C9DBB4870AF26E73533@Gregor>

Hi Everyone!

I would like to wish everyone a very Happy Holiday from warm Florida!

Here is a photo of a few friends who stopped by my place (I think at least 
two of them needed to get out of the cold!)...
http://www.lunarrock.com/FLholiday2009/FLholiday.jpg

Merry Christmas, and a wonderful holiday to everyone!
Greg
P.S. Thanks Leigh Anne for the idea of "insitu" photos of the day! ;-)
PPSS - I think Mr. Snowman melted a bit from the camera flash after a few 
re-takes!






From mlblood at cox.net  Thu Dec 24 21:51:34 2009
From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael Blood)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 18:51:34 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Tucson Show best dates
In-Reply-To: <564046.39410.qm@web113614.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <C75968B6.A240%mlblood@cox.net>

Hi Julie and all,
        Yes, The Inn Suites (now "Hotel Tucson City Center?")
Is the highest, by far, concentration of meteorite dealers.
However, the TIME you come should include the following:

The IMCA dinner (if you are an IMCA member, though I think
        all meteorite enthusiasts are welcome) Wed, Feb 4
The Birthday Bash - Fri, Feb 5 this year
        (big event of all meteorite people celebrating the birthdays
        Of The Great Geoff Notkin and the REAL Steve Arnold)
The Tucson Meteorite Auction Sat, Feb 6 this year
        (attended by most meteorite enthusiasts,
        where you can bid on over 100 lots of meteorite offerings).
        
        Best wishes, Michael



On 12/23/09 1:44 PM, "Richard Kowalski" <damoclid at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Julie,
> 
> for a first timer, there are two "Must See" locations
> 
> The Arizona Mineral & Fossil Show at the Hotel Tucson City Center - formerly
> InnSuites Hotel
> 
> http://www.xpopress.com/AZ-AMFS-IS-show-schedule.html
> 
> and the Arizona Mineral & Fossil Show at the Ramada Ltd.
> 
> http://www.xpopress.com/AZ-AMFS-RL-show-schedule.html
> 
> As you can see they both run the full two weeks.
> 
> You can spend a few days wandering both locations. The best days to go are the
> days you can make it! Obviously the better selection can be had at the
> beginning of the show, but often the best deals can be made at the end of the
> show, but there is so many neat things to see and buy, anytime is good!
> 
> Have fun!
> 
> --
> Richard Kowalski
> http://fullmoonphotography.net
> IMCA #1081
> 
> 
> --- On Wed, 12/23/09, Julie <jlatchford at cox.net> wrote:
> 
>> From: Julie <jlatchford at cox.net>
>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Tucson
>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Date: Wednesday, December 23, 2009, 2:26 PM
>> Hi List .? My name is julie L. I
>> live in Queen Creek AZ.? I would like to go to the
>> Tucson show.? I have been to a web sight I think is the
>> right one. But I still have a couple of questions if you all
>> don't mind. When is the best days to go. It looks like it is
>> not is just one place.? So where is the best place to
>> go.? Yes I am new to the list.? :)? Thank You
>> for your time & info. Hope to meet some of you & the
>> show. Julie L______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> 
> 
> 
>       
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list




From impactika at aol.com  Thu Dec 24 23:12:34 2009
From: impactika at aol.com (impactika at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 23:12:34 EST
Subject: [meteorite-list] Tucson Show best dates
Message-ID: <b893.75640340.386595b2@aol.com>



Hello Michael and List,
 
I am very sorry to disagree with you Michael but the IMCA dinner is for 
IMCA members and their spouse/significant other only for one very simple 
reason: Space.
 
I would be absolutely delighted to see every member of this List there, but 
I am sure the management of La Fuente would not be happy. So if you are a 
Member of the IMCA and would like to come, please contact Maria Haas 
(_dragonsoup at msn.com_ (mailto:dragonsoup at msn.com) ) as soon as possible, she is the 
one counting heads and making sure that La Fuente will have enough space for 
all of us.
 
If you are not a member, I am sure I will see you at the Birthday party on 
Friday evening, and hopefully in my room in the Innsuites (now Hotel Tucson 
City Center, room 230). And if you are interested in becoming a member, just 
tell me or Maria.
 
And another thing Michael: the IMCA dinner is on Thursday, Feb. 4.
 
Very happy Holiday Season to everybody.
 
Anne M. Black
_http://www.impactika.com/_ (http://www.impactika.com/) 
_IMPACTIKA at aol.com_ (mailto:IMPACTIKA at aol.com) 
Vice-President, I.M.C.A. Inc.
_http://www.imca.cc/_ (http://www.imca.cc/) 
 
 
 
 
 
In a message dated 12/24/2009 7:56:05 PM Mountain Standard Time, 
mlblood at cox.net writes:
Hi Julie and all,
Yes, The Inn Suites (now "Hotel Tucson City Center?")
Is the highest, by far, concentration of meteorite dealers.
However, the TIME you come should include the following:

The IMCA dinner (if you are an IMCA member, though I think
all meteorite enthusiasts are welcome) Wed, Feb 4
The Birthday Bash - Fri, Feb 5 this year
(big event of all meteorite people celebrating the birthdays
Of The Great Geoff Notkin and the REAL Steve Arnold)
The Tucson Meteorite Auction Sat, Feb 6 this year
(attended by most meteorite enthusiasts,
where you can bid on over 100 lots of meteorite offerings).

Best wishes, Michael



From John at Cabassi.net  Thu Dec 24 22:24:21 2009
From: John at Cabassi.net (John.L.Cabassi)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 19:24:21 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Merry Christmas
Message-ID: <000001ca8511$c076cd70$a166fea9@anitak9bz49jy2>

G'Day All
Katina and I would just like to wish all the members the best of
Season's Greetings. I think Geoff made a great effort to list all and I
agree with his list, but there are many more that should have been
included. But you can't list them all. The list has had it's ups and
downs, some good, some bad; but overall we are all connected in some
way. 

Take Care, Be Safe and Enjoy your Families and Friends.

Cheers
John, Katina and Rockette
IMCA # 2125

P.S. I hope this goes through. I've had a bummer of a year trying to
post.



From oxytropidoceras at cox.net  Fri Dec 25 03:25:25 2009
From: oxytropidoceras at cox.net (Paul Heinrich)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 02:25:25 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Old-Time Cosmic Catastrophism is Alive and Well
Message-ID: <4B3476F5.7030603@cox.net>

Dear friends,

While searching the Internet, I can across examples that
show that no-holds-barred cosmic catastrophism is still
alive and well. Some examples include:

Spedicato, E., 2009, Hypotheses and Scientific Approaches
to Human Memory of Four Great Catastrophes. The 2009
Conference on Quantavolution, Kandersteg, Switzerland.

http://www.2009-kandersteg.q-conferences.com/fromfirstdayinge/index.html
http://www.2009-kandersteg.q-conferences.com/fromfirstdayinge/genexodus.pdf

Another lecture by Dr. Spedicato, "Solomon and Dionysus:
Who Were They? Two Mysteries Solved, Again Confirming
the Validity of Ancient Texts" at:

http://www.2009-kandersteg.q-conferences.com/solomonanddionys/index.html
http://www.2009-kandersteg.q-conferences.com/solomonanddionys/soldion2.pdf

Spedicato, E., 2008a, The Flood of Deucalion. The Paris
Conference on Quatavolution 2008, Universit? Pierre-et-
Marie-Curie, Paris, France.

http://www.2008-paris-conference.org/mapage13/index.html
http://www.2008-paris-conference.org/mapage13/deucalione-testo-inglese-1-.pdf
http://www.2008-paris-conference.org/mapage6/index.html

Spedicato, E., 2008a, From Phaethon to Pachamacac
Hypotheses and scientific approaches to human memory
of great catastrophes. The Paris Conference on
Quatavolution 2008, Universit? Pierre-et-Marie-Curie,
Paris, France. at

http://www.2008-paris-conference.org/mapage13/index.html
http://www.2008-paris-conference.org/mapage13/phaethon-to-chapamacac.pdf
http://www.2008-paris-conference.org/mapage6/index.html

A 2007 Conference on Quatavolution paper of his, "Geography
and Numerics of Eden, Kharsag and Paradise: Sumerian and
Enochian Sources Versus the Genesis Tale" is quite revealing.

http://www.2007-kandersteg.q-conferences.com/geographyandnume/index.html
http://www.2007-kandersteg.q-conferences.com/geographyandnume/kharsag-emilio.pdf

A similar catastrophist paper is:

Barbiero, F., 2007, Changes of Rotation Axis of Earth
after Asteroid/Cometary Impacts and Their Geological
Effects. 2007 Conference on Quantavolution. Kandersteg,
Switzerland. It can be found at:

http://www.2007-kandersteg.q-conferences.com/changesofrotatio/index.html
http://www.2007-kandersteg.q-conferences.com/changesofrotatio/confer-kandersteg-poles-ingl.pdf

In the 2009 Conference on Quantavolution, Barbiero has a
paper titled "Space-Time as a Field of Mass - A Proposal for
a New Model of Physical Reality" at

http://www.2009-kandersteg.q-conferences.com/space-timeasafie/index.html
http://www.2009-kandersteg.q-conferences.com/space-timeasafie/spacetime-as-a-field-new.pdf

I have absolutely no clue as to what Barbiero is talking about
in his 2009 paper. From what I found in this paper, I very likely
only need to start worrying if I did find something in this paper
that I understood.

However, Spedicato did get a paper published in a peer-
reviewed book: It is:

Spedicato, Emilio, 2008, Homer and Orosius: A Key to
Explain Deucalion's Flood, Exodus and Other Tales, in
S. A. Paipetis, ed., Science and Technology in Homeric
Epics, vol. 6, pp. 369-374. History of Mechanism and
Machine Science, Springer Netherlands.

http://www.springerlink.com/content/p4q2u4w414866053/
http://interval.louisiana.edu/conferences/2007_Stenger/Slides_of_talks/homer-fetonte-lampos.pdf

2006 version of this paper can be found at:

http://wwwdata.unibg.it/dati/bacheca/63/21693.pdf

It seems like Spedicato is an excellent example of how
far off the deep end that a scientist, in this case a
mathematician, can go when they conduct "research"
that is way outside their area of expertise.

Another paper that also appears in "Science and Technology
in Homeric Epics" is "A Comet During the Trojan War?" by Dr.
Stavros Papamarinopoulos at either

http://www.2008-paris-conference.org/mapage12/phaethon-in-springer-1-.pdf ,
http://www.2008-paris-conference.org/mapage12/index.html , or
http://www.springerlink.com/content/q721u76w20r64431/

Yours,

Paul H.


From ensoramanda at ntlworld.com  Fri Dec 25 04:56:27 2009
From: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com (ensoramanda at ntlworld.com)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 9:56:27 +0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] "Meteorite" Magazine + Season's Greetings
In-Reply-To: <89AE3F9D-135A-4891-BE62-72EB2159230C@notkin.net>
Message-ID: <20091225095627.YU0E9.552184.root@web05-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com>

Hi Geoff, all,

Thanks for that Goeff, and greetings to you too.

Just a thought that lazy, disorganized people like myself have not got around to subscribing to Meteorite magazine (and I know I should and want to) because the method of subscribing is not the most user friendly. If someone could set up an online method or host a paypal method I'm sure the subscriptions would rise dramatically.

My thanks too go to all those who have made this meteorite year great...especially those who made my Ensisheim trip the best yet.
First of all Bernd for initiating my link up with Peter Davidson,
Zelimir for organizing all that and the generous help he gave us to get there, and Peter himself for the great company out there, on the journey and the tour round the stored collection at the museum in Edinburgh.

Greetings to those others out at Ensisheim, Marc, Seigfreid, Karin, Peter, Svend, Anne and many more too numerous to mention...great times.

Also greetings to Rob Elliot for putting up with my visit to his collection at home and hospitality just a week before most of it was auctioned...now that and the auction were exceptional events for me in 2009.

See you all in Tucson most likely,

and a happy new year,

Graham, UK 

---- Notkin <geoking at notkin.net> wrote: 
> Dear Listees:
> 
> Season's greetings from Tucson. I know we'll be seeing many of you  
> here in just over a month! Tucson 2010: The Year We Made Contact  : )   
> That's one for the Arthur C. Clarke fans.
> 
> As this year draws to a close, I'd like to thank Nancy and Larry  
> Lebofsky (editors), Jessica Park (design), the editorial advisory  
> board, the production team, and all the writers and photographers who  
> have given us another fine year of "Meteorite" magazine. I recently  
> received the most recent issue, and the tribute to the late, great O.  
> Richard Norton is excellent.
> 
> Yesterday, I realized that there are about twice as many subscribers  
> to the M-List as there are subscribers to "Meteorite." If you are not  
> a magazine subscriber, may I ask why not? : )  "Meteorite" is a unique  
> and outstanding publication and many or most of those who are involved  
> in producing it play their part strictly for the love of it (i.e. they  
> work on a pro-bono basis). "Meteorite" needs your support. Let's see  
> it grow and become even better in 2010.
> 
> You can subscribe via the website:
> 
> http://meteoritemag.uark.edu
> 
> 
> And a few other people who deserve a special tip of the hat for giving  
> selflessly to the meteorite community all year long:
> 
> The IMCA Board of Directors
> Art Jones, founder of the Meteorite List
> Paul Harris and Jim Tobin of "Meteorite Times"
> Bob Falls and the Encyclopedia of Meteorites
> Michael Johnson and RFSPOD
> 
> Thank you all.
> 
> 
> Respectfully,
> 
> Geoff N.
> www.aerolite.org
> www.meteoritemen.com
> www.meteoriteblog.org
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From michael at rocksfromspace.org  Fri Dec 25 06:34:37 2009
From: michael at rocksfromspace.org (Michael Johnson)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 03:34:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December 25,
	2009
Message-ID: <1939727522.182771261740877388.JavaMail.root@mbs1.homesteadmail.com>

http://www.rocksfromspace.org/December_25_2009.html



From erikfwebb at msn.com  Fri Dec 25 13:01:07 2009
From: erikfwebb at msn.com (Erik Fisler)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 11:01:07 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Christmas Toys!
Message-ID: <COL119-W104CC9FF276CCC7F510441A47E0@phx.gbl>


Thanks dad for the new tripod, reflectors, and tungsten carbide scale cube that allow me to take pictures like this:

http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/?action=view&current=NWA428g.jpg
NWA 46.2g 
 		 	   		  

From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Fri Dec 25 13:13:37 2009
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 13:13:37 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Christmas Toys!
In-Reply-To: <COL119-W104CC9FF276CCC7F510441A47E0@phx.gbl>
References: <COL119-W104CC9FF276CCC7F510441A47E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <e51421550912251013m67a0f790y4992b8658fc3f428@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Erik!

Nice meteorite and cube. :)

What kind of reflector(s) did you get?  Any of them big light buckets?

Best regards and clear skies,

MikeG

On 12/25/09, Erik Fisler <erikfwebb at msn.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks dad for the new tripod, reflectors, and tungsten carbide scale cube
> that allow me to take pictures like this:
>
> http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/?action=view&current=NWA428g.jpg
> NWA 46.2g
>  		 	   		
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


-- 
.........................................................
Michael Gilmer (Florida, USA)
Member of the Meteoritical Society.
Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com
FaceBook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale
Twitter - Twitter - http://twitter.com/GalacticStone
eBay - http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/maypickle
..........................................................


From pgspears at cox.net  Fri Dec 25 13:14:20 2009
From: pgspears at cox.net (Paul  G. Spears)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 11:14:20 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Christmas Toys!
In-Reply-To: <COL119-W104CC9FF276CCC7F510441A47E0@phx.gbl>
References: <COL119-W104CC9FF276CCC7F510441A47E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <834D48775B23407B9E74FA748372CB7B@GrandpasNetbook>

Great pic, Erik.  Neat dad, too!
Paul

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Erik Fisler" <erikfwebb at msn.com>
Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 11:01 AM
To: "meteorite-list" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Subject: [meteorite-list] Christmas Toys!

>
> Thanks dad for the new tripod, reflectors, and tungsten carbide scale cube 
> that allow me to take pictures like this:
>
> http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/?action=view&current=NWA428g.jpg
> NWA 46.2g
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.427 / Virus Database: 270.14.111/2569 - Release Date: 
> 12/16/09 19:52:00
> 


From erikfwebb at msn.com  Fri Dec 25 13:36:22 2009
From: erikfwebb at msn.com (Erik Fisler)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 11:36:22 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Christmas Toys!
In-Reply-To: <e51421550912251013m67a0f790y4992b8658fc3f428@mail.gmail.com>
References: <COL119-W104CC9FF276CCC7F510441A47E0@phx.gbl>,
	<e51421550912251013m67a0f790y4992b8658fc3f428@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <COL119-W1128DC48DD11F12B40CD71A47E0@phx.gbl>


I got a promaster 5 in 1 reflector.? It really makes a difference in adding extra light to kick up my meteorite photographs. 
No hot lamps yet Mike, but soon.

My scale cube number is #0208

Thanks Paul!

[Erik]

----------------------------------------
> Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 13:13:37 -0500
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Christmas Toys!
> From: meteoritemike at gmail.com
> To: erikfwebb at msn.com
> CC: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>
> Hi Erik!
>
> Nice meteorite and cube. :)
>
> What kind of reflector(s) did you get? Any of them big light buckets?
>
> Best regards and clear skies,
>
> MikeG
>
> On 12/25/09, Erik Fisler  wrote:
>>
>> Thanks dad for the new tripod, reflectors, and tungsten carbide scale cube
>> that allow me to take pictures like this:
>>
>> http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/?action=view&current=NWA428g.jpg
>> NWA 46.2g
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>
>
> --
> .........................................................
> Michael Gilmer (Florida, USA)
> Member of the Meteoritical Society.
> Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com
> FaceBook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
> MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale
> Twitter - Twitter - http://twitter.com/GalacticStone
> eBay - http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/maypickle
> ..........................................................
 		 	   		  

From erikfwebb at msn.com  Fri Dec 25 15:28:21 2009
From: erikfwebb at msn.com (Erik Fisler)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 13:28:21 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Help! Rust!
Message-ID: <COL119-W461332FA7868604830F70CA47E0@phx.gbl>


My father and I bought 600+/- grams of SAU 001 from Dima at the Tucson Show two years ago.
Dima had left them in storage and they had rusted pretty good.
How do I kill the rust on my 74.2g stone?

http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/?action=view&current=SAU001742g.jpg

[Erik]
 		 	   		  

From larrytwinkmonrad at comcast.net  Fri Dec 25 17:06:07 2009
From: larrytwinkmonrad at comcast.net (Larry & Twink Monrad)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 15:06:07 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] "Meteorite" Magazine Ssubscription
References: <20091225095627.YU0E9.552184.root@web05-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com>
Message-ID: <E396C67B6F25424CAF6169D9F6148DFD@DFZN8X81>

Hi Graham and list,

You can subscribe via the website:

http://meteoritemag.uark.edu

The on-line subscription form allows MC, Visa and Discover credit cards.

Are these not available in the UK?

Larry

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <ensoramanda at ntlworld.com>
To: "Meteorite List" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>; "Notkin" 
<geoking at notkin.net>
Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 2:56 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] "Meteorite" Magazine + Season's Greetings


> Hi Geoff, all,
>
> > Just a thought that lazy, disorganized people like myself have not got 
> > around to subscribing to Meteorite magazine (and I know I should and 
> > want to) because the method of subscribing is not the most user 
> > friendly. If someone could set up an online method or host a paypal 
> > method I'm sure the subscriptions would rise dramatically.
> 



From larrytwinkmonrad at comcast.net  Fri Dec 25 17:11:35 2009
From: larrytwinkmonrad at comcast.net (Larry & Twink Monrad)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 15:11:35 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] "Meteorite" Magazine Ssubscription
References: <20091225095627.YU0E9.552184.root@web05-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com>
	<E396C67B6F25424CAF6169D9F6148DFD@DFZN8X81>
Message-ID: <5288BA79683E49579927CB6C38095218@DFZN8X81>

Sorry !! Looks like I made my first error today.

I now note that you have to complete the form and then mail it.

Larry

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Larry & Twink Monrad" <larrytwinkmonrad at comcast.net>
To: <ensoramanda at ntlworld.com>; "Meteorite List" 
<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>; "Notkin" <geoking at notkin.net>
Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 3:06 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] "Meteorite" Magazine Ssubscription


> Hi Graham and list,
>
> You can subscribe via the website:
>
> http://meteoritemag.uark.edu
>
> The on-line subscription form allows MC, Visa and Discover credit cards.
>
> Are these not available in the UK?
>
> Larry
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <ensoramanda at ntlworld.com>
> To: "Meteorite List" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>; "Notkin" 
> <geoking at notkin.net>
> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 2:56 AM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] "Meteorite" Magazine + Season's Greetings
>
>
>> Hi Geoff, all,
>>
>> > Just a thought that lazy, disorganized people like myself have not got 
>> > around to subscribing to Meteorite magazine (and I know I should and 
>> > want to) because the method of subscribing is not the most user 
>> > friendly. If someone could set up an online method or host a paypal 
>> > method I'm sure the subscriptions would rise dramatically.
>>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From mrmeteorite at gmail.com  Fri Dec 25 19:01:44 2009
From: mrmeteorite at gmail.com (Ruben Garcia)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 17:01:44 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] meteorite related videos you may have missed
Message-ID: <80659e1a0912251601x47775130u882673ed66e206bc@mail.gmail.com>

Meteorite videos uploaded this week that you may have missed.

Here is a cool video about list member (and friend) Laurence Garvie - ASU:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vje6CxHhhC8

also

New Gold Basin video with list member Jason Snyder -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfZwZAEJvEo

My latest:

Rare Arizona Find - Cutting and Classification
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfjdhqbnoxU

-- 
Rock On!

Ruben Garcia

Website: http://www.mr-meteorite.net
Articles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/
Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=meteorfright#p/u


From pshugar at clearwire.net  Fri Dec 25 20:37:54 2009
From: pshugar at clearwire.net (Pete Shugar)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 19:37:54 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Re super magnet
Message-ID: <4320CD12342D49B39A1D074FB09C99A7@laptop>

What's a good source for a super magnet?
How much?
Pete IMCA1733



From abcg at bellsouth.net  Fri Dec 25 20:55:30 2009
From: abcg at bellsouth.net (Richard Graveline)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 20:55:30 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Re super magnet
In-Reply-To: <4320CD12342D49B39A1D074FB09C99A7@laptop>
References: <4320CD12342D49B39A1D074FB09C99A7@laptop>
Message-ID: <5FDB1EABB80F4625BB2E1EB5D90AC328@Kitchen>

Hello:

See Amazon vendor Emovendo.

http://www.amazon.com/s/qid=1261792316/ref=sr_nr_seeall_1?ie=UTF8&rs=&keywor
ds=emovendo&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Aemovendo%2Ci%3Agarden


richard


-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Pete
Shugar
Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 8:38 PM
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: [meteorite-list] Re super magnet

What's a good source for a super magnet?
How much?
Pete IMCA1733




From skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com  Fri Dec 25 23:01:04 2009
From: skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com (Joe Kerchner)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 20:01:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Re super magnet
In-Reply-To: <4320CD12342D49B39A1D074FB09C99A7@laptop>
References: <4320CD12342D49B39A1D074FB09C99A7@laptop>
Message-ID: <112778.76785.qm@web43407.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Pete,

I use 2 different places. K&J Magnetics:
 http://www.kjmagnetics.com/categories.asp?PARTNER=illinoismeteorites

Then there is a guy on ebay that sells some nice ones at a pretty low price low price:
 http://cgi.ebay.com/N50-2x2x1-Neodymium-Rare-Earth-Magnet-250-LB-Pull_W0QQitemZ170421977287QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item27adf100c7
http://shop.ebay.com/magnet4less/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p4340

   The only reason I sometimes use K&J is because they have nice deals once in a while and you know for sure what you get if what you looked at. Ebay you can not always be sure they are the streangth they are said to be, such as N42, N50, N52, ect....
Hope that helps.

Best,
Joe Kerchner
http://skyrockcafe.com




----- Original Message ----
From: Pete Shugar <pshugar at clearwire.net>
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Fri, December 25, 2009 7:37:54 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Re super magnet

What's a good source for a super magnet?
How much?
Pete IMCA1733

______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



      



From cynapse at charter.net  Sat Dec 26 00:01:55 2009
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 2009 00:01:55 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Another frauderite in the credulous press
In-Reply-To: <E396C67B6F25424CAF6169D9F6148DFD@DFZN8X81>
References: <20091225095627.YU0E9.552184.root@web05-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com>
	<E396C67B6F25424CAF6169D9F6148DFD@DFZN8X81>
Message-ID: <m06bj512h772l8bahcq3fmusp4c10qm271@4ax.com>

Photo on the site.  It looks like maybe very old eroded barnacles or coral on
it.

http://www.mdcoastdispatch.com/article.php?cid=37&id=7767

Strange Fiery Object Found On Beach

By Shawn J. Soper, News Editor
Originally published December 25, 2009 

OCEAN CITY ? A mysterious, glowing hot object fell from the sky and landed on
the beach in Ocean City last week, but it remains uncertain this week just what
it is and from where it came.

Early last Tuesday morning, an Ocean City cab driver was walking down the
Boardwalk in the area of 22nd Street when he saw a bright glowing object fall
from the sky from north to south and land on the beach roughly 20 yards away
from him. Classic Cab Company driver Derrick Miller typically drops his taxi
back off at company headquarters on 26th Street after his shift and walks down
the Boardwalk to his home in the downtown area.

Over the years, he has established a relationship with a resident wild fox that
inhabits the area around 22nd Street in front of the Grand Hotel and often
brings food to the animal. Early last Tuesday morning, Miller was following his
normal routine when he saw a bright light flash across the sky from the north
with the glowing object landing on the beach about 20 yards away.

?I was doing my usual thing and I was on the beach right in front of the Grand
when I saw what looked at first like a shooting star,? he said. ?It crashed into
the sand about 20 yards away from me. When I checked it out, it had made a hole
in the sand about a foot and a half wide and about six inches deep. Whatever it
was, it was glowing red hot with sparks and fire coming from some of the holes
in it.?

Miller said he examined the object closely, but could not handle it because of
the heat. Instead, he buried it in the sand and marked the location with a
stick. He returned about five or six hours later and recovered the object, which
was still warm to the touch, but cool enough to pick up and handle.

The unknown oblong object is about an inch-and-a-half long on its longest side
and an inch or so wide. Its shape is irregular and appears to contain different
types of material. It is covered with small holes around the outside that appear
to be fissures of some sort. Weighed this week at the Classic Cab warehouse, it
came it at exactly 20 grams.

It is uncertain just what the object is and where it came from, but it fell from
the sky during one of the most celebrated astronomical events in the northern
hemisphere this year, lending credence to the working theory that is possibly a
meteorite or other kind of space debris. According to NASA officials, the
Geminid meteor shower arched its way across the northern hemisphere sky from
Dec. 6-18, providing one of the most visible astronomical events of the year.

According to NASA, the Geminid meteor shower reached its peak on Dec. 13-14,
which puts last week?s discovery on the beach in Ocean City right in the window
of the most activity in the area. While he could not be reached for comment or
possible identification of the object, Bill Cooke of NASA?s Meteoroid
Environment Office confirmed the Geminid meteor shower provided fireworks over
the mid-Atlantic area last week.

?It?s the Geminid meteor shower and it should have peaked on Dec. 13th and 14th
under ideal viewing conditions,? he said. ?The Geminids are strong and getting
stronger each year.?

Miller said in the days before and after his discovery of the object on the
beach, he noticed an increase in the number of shooting stars observed in the
area, particularly on the beach at night or in darker areas such as Ocean Pines
while he was driving his cab. He also said many of his fares had pointed out the
phenomenon.

According to NASA, Geminids are pieces of debris from a strange object known as
3200 Phaeton. Long thought to be an asteroid, Phaeton is now classified as an
extinct comet. According to NASA, ?it is basically the rocky skeleton of a comet
that lost its ice after too many close encounters with the sun,? and ?Earth runs
into a stream of debris from 3200 Phaeton every year in mid-December, causing
meteors to fly from the constellation Gemini.?

Of course, it remains uncertain just what the object Miller discovered on the
beach last week is, but the presence of the Geminid meteor shower during the
time it was found suggests it could be an object from outer space, possibly a
meteorite.

A meteorite is defined by NASA as a natural object originating in outer space
that survives a trip through the Earth?s atmosphere and lands on the ground.
Most meteorites come from small astronomical objects called meteoroids, but they
are sometimes produced by impacts of asteroids. According to NASA, meteorites
that are recovered after being observed as they transited through the atmosphere
or impacted the Earth are called ?falls.? All other meteorites are known as
?finds.?

According to NASA, most meteoroids disintegrate when entering the Earth?s
atmosphere. However, an estimated 500 meteorites ranging in size from marbles to
basketballs or larger do reach the surface each year. Few meteorites are large
enough to create impact craters. Instead, they typically arrive at the surface
at their terminal velocity and, at most, create a small pit, according to NASA. 


From epgrondine at yahoo.com  Sat Dec 26 10:11:02 2009
From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine)
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 2009 07:11:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Radloff catastrophism
Message-ID: <723640.7268.qm@web36904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi Paul - 

Yes, Velikovsky lives, and there is a list where Leroy Ellenberger takes them on. You might enjoy it. 

Another variant appears as the "Electric Universe", and you can find regular posts to them at rense.com. 

Generally, these people are confused by proto-historical accounts of recent comet fragment impacts.

But they don't use tax dollars, while in the meantime NASA spends large amounts of those dollars looking for Morrison and Muller's Nemesis, and setting the rate of ELEs at 1 per 100 million years, versus the observed chaotic rate of 1 per 26 million years.

I suppose that's why we have WISE instead of NEO-VIS.

E.P. Grondine
Man and Impact in the Americas





      


From jgrossman at usgs.gov  Sat Dec 26 12:11:25 2009
From: jgrossman at usgs.gov (Jeff Grossman)
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 2009 12:11:25 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Lindfors avalanche!
Message-ID: <4B3643BD.5030102@usgs.gov>

Omg, I just got 20 Lindfors-o-grams all at once, with nearly 50 Mb of 
attached images. Has anybody figured out how to stop this spammer?

Jeff

-- 
Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman       phone: (703) 648-6184
US Geological Survey          fax:   (703) 648-6383
954 National Center
Reston, VA 20192, USA




From tbear1 at cableone.net  Sat Dec 26 13:10:31 2009
From: tbear1 at cableone.net (Ted Bunch)
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 2009 11:10:31 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Lindfors avalanche!
In-Reply-To: <4B3643BD.5030102@usgs.gov>
Message-ID: <C75B9FA7.FE83%tbear1@cableone.net>

Jeff - I wrote him and explained that I am a scientist, have little interest
in his stuff and said that his large files were clogging up my computer. I
politely asked him to take me off his list and he did.

Ted


On 12/26/09 10:11 AM, "Jeff Grossman" <jgrossman at usgs.gov> wrote:

> Omg, I just got 20 Lindfors-o-grams all at once, with nearly 50 Mb of
> attached images. Has anybody figured out how to stop this spammer?
> 
> Jeff




From daniel_wray at comcast.net  Sat Dec 26 13:30:23 2009
From: daniel_wray at comcast.net (Dan Wray)
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 2009 11:30:23 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Re super magnet
References: <4320CD12342D49B39A1D074FB09C99A7@laptop>
Message-ID: <45CE086A65FA40A7960ABA2FB8941DAF@DAN1>

Pete,

I use this company: http://www.forcefieldmagnets.com/catalog/  Price varies 
with size.  Happy shopping.

Dan
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Pete Shugar" <pshugar at clearwire.net>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 6:37 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Re super magnet


> What's a good source for a super magnet?
> How much?
> Pete IMCA1733
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 



From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Sat Dec 26 14:30:18 2009
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 2009 14:30:18 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Lindfors avalanche!
In-Reply-To: <4B3643BD.5030102@usgs.gov>
References: <4B3643BD.5030102@usgs.gov>
Message-ID: <e51421550912261130u410aff4bg27a64000c6c23bdc@mail.gmail.com>

He must send this flotsam to everyone on the List.  I was also spammed by him.

I blocked his email address.

Best regards,

MikeG



On 12/26/09, Jeff Grossman <jgrossman at usgs.gov> wrote:
> Omg, I just got 20 Lindfors-o-grams all at once, with nearly 50 Mb of
> attached images. Has anybody figured out how to stop this spammer?
>
> Jeff
>
> --
> Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman       phone: (703) 648-6184
> US Geological Survey          fax:   (703) 648-6383
> 954 National Center
> Reston, VA 20192, USA
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


-- 
.........................................................
Michael Gilmer (Florida, USA)
Member of the Meteoritical Society.
Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com
FaceBook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale
Twitter - Twitter - http://twitter.com/GalacticStone
eBay - http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/maypickle
..........................................................


From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Sat Dec 26 18:32:18 2009
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 2009 18:32:18 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Lindfors avalanche!
In-Reply-To: <1F8BA5C090F74BDC9206CDAFE2481E8B@laptop>
References: <4B3643BD.5030102@usgs.gov>
	<e51421550912261130u410aff4bg27a64000c6c23bdc@mail.gmail.com>
	<1F8BA5C090F74BDC9206CDAFE2481E8B@laptop>
Message-ID: <e51421550912261532t7a184398xc30cd70d03210e49@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Pete and List,

For those who might not know, Mr. Lindfors is well known (notorious)
for shopping around some interesting-looking, but quite dubious
"meteorites" that he claims are lunar in origin.  He tries to sell the
specimens and the sales pitch is long and always accompanied by a
plethora of attached photos which show the specimens and his notes.
He will not listen to reason and insists that his specimens are indeed
lunaites, and that anyone who disagrees with him is mistaken.  Despite
being told that his specimens are terrestrial by several respectable
and trusted scientists, he continues to shop around these fake lunars.
 I don't know if he is genuinely crazy and doesn't have the capacity
to grasp reason, or if he knows they are fake and is actively
perpetuating a scam.

Pete, if you didn't get his email, you were lucky. ;)

Best regards and Happy Holidays,

MikeG


On 12/26/09, Pete Shugar <pshugar at clearwire.net> wrote:
> Mike,
> I did not get any so I guess I'm lucky?
> Pete
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" <meteoritemike at gmail.com>
> To: "Jeff Grossman" <jgrossman at usgs.gov>
> Cc: "Meteorite-list" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Saturday, December 26, 2009 1:30 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Lindfors avalanche!
>
>
>> He must send this flotsam to everyone on the List.  I was also spammed by
>> him.
>>
>> I blocked his email address.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> MikeG
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12/26/09, Jeff Grossman <jgrossman at usgs.gov> wrote:
>>> Omg, I just got 20 Lindfors-o-grams all at once, with nearly 50 Mb of
>>> attached images. Has anybody figured out how to stop this spammer?
>>>
>>> Jeff
>>>
>>> --
>>> Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman       phone: (703) 648-6184
>>> US Geological Survey          fax:   (703) 648-6383
>>> 954 National Center
>>> Reston, VA 20192, USA
>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> .........................................................
>> Michael Gilmer (Florida, USA)
>> Member of the Meteoritical Society.
>> Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com
>> FaceBook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
>> MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale
>> Twitter - Twitter - http://twitter.com/GalacticStone
>> eBay - http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/maypickle
>> ..........................................................
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>


-- 
.........................................................
Michael Gilmer (Florida, USA)
Member of the Meteoritical Society.
Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com
FaceBook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale
Twitter - Twitter - http://twitter.com/GalacticStone
eBay - http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/maypickle
..........................................................


From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Sat Dec 26 20:00:57 2009
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 2009 17:00:57 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: A few collection pieces
In-Reply-To: <e51421550912261130u410aff4bg27a64000c6c23bdc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4B3643BD.5030102@usgs.gov>
	<e51421550912261130u410aff4bg27a64000c6c23bdc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B36B1C9.3030806@meteoritesusa.com>

Hi List,

A few pieces available today.

1017g Sculpted Canyon Diablo = $750
6.9g West, TX (Ash Creek) = $276 (Found by me February 25th 2009 - 10 
days after the fall. Will supply documentation and in-situ photos)
----------------------------------------
Take both pieces = $1000
Free Shipping Worldwide

Also available:
63.8g Gold Basin - $47
47.9g Gold Basin - $35
54.0g Canyon Diablo (natural) - $27
31.9g Brenham Pallasite (part slice: Polished one side) - $99
5.4g Brenham Pallasite (two small polished frags) - $16

Email off-list for photos...

Regards,
Eric
760-522-2152



From impactika at aol.com  Sat Dec 26 20:04:03 2009
From: impactika at aol.com (impactika at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 2009 20:04:03 EST
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - After Christmas Sales
Message-ID: <7b03.26513f87.38680c83@aol.com>



Hello everybody,
 
I hope you enjoyed your Christmas, and found a lot of goodies under the 
tree.
 
And for all of you who did not get what you really wanted (Meteorites, of 
course) I have the solution. I have been going thru all my inventory, boxes 
and boxes of specimens, and just the idea of having to pack all that to take 
it to Tucson, is a bit much.
So, for the first time ever I have SALES!!
A lot of new pieces and a whole lot of new prices.
 
Go take a look at:  _http://www.impactika.com/MetList.htm_ 
(http://www.impactika.com/MetList.htm) 
 
And you will see what I mean, everything highlighted in red is new or has a 
new price. Even historical named pieces and some planetaries.
 
Any questions, just ask!
Enjoy.


Anne M. Black
http://www.impactika.com/
IMPACTIKA at aol.com
Vice-President, I.M.C.A. Inc.
http://www.imca.cc/


From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Sat Dec 26 20:29:20 2009
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 2009 20:29:20 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD : Post Christmas Sale - 30% OFF all specimens,
	including 	planetaries, rarities, trinitite, and more.
Message-ID: <e51421550912261729x18f0cfd6g8dd3c42f86794a58@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Friends and Listees,

I want to thank everyone again for the continued positive energy,
prayers and support I am receiving for my wife who still hospitalized.
(18 days now)  They are running more tests, trying to pin down exactly
what is causing her infection and they are starting to look at her
right lung, lower lobe.  Another CT scan tonight will hopefully give
us some new info and the doctors say she should be out of the hospital
by New Years. (maybe)

Needless to say, Christmas was somewhat subdued this year, but I hope
everyone else had a happy, safe and hospital-free holiday. ;)

As a thanks to my friends on the Met-List, I am offering a 40% OFF
coupon that is good until January 2nd.  This coupon is good on your
entire order for anything in the store - no exclusions. The coupon
code is case-sensitive, so type it exactly as it appears here -
holiday.

The coupon code is "holiday" (minus the quotation marks)

I ship to anywhere on the planet and I am also the only meteorite
vendor who will ship outside the Sol System.  Note - shipping charges
to the Cygnus or Sagittarius arm will be extra due to Interstellar
Tariffs.  Contact me for a quote if you require shipping to a
destination outside Earth's solar system.  Due to problems in the past
with delivery issues, I will no longer ship to Rigel.

Thanks for looking, happy holidays and happy huntings!

MikeG

www.galactic-stone.com


-- 
.........................................................
Michael Gilmer (Florida, USA)
Member of the Meteoritical Society.
Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com
FaceBook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale
Twitter - Twitter - http://twitter.com/GalacticStone
eBay - http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/maypickle
..........................................................


From mikewren at gilanet.com  Thu Dec 24 13:13:14 2009
From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 11:13:14 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Happy Holidays and Thanks!
Message-ID: <AA7F25E9-0BAA-42BB-97FD-96BCC31A7E98@gilanet.com>

Hello,

Happy Holidays & Good Health To All!

Thanks to all my customers and friends ....

Best Wishes

Michael Cottingham


From mstreman at gmail.com  Sat Dec 26 23:01:31 2009
From: mstreman at gmail.com (MstrEman)
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 2009 23:01:31 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Re super magnet
In-Reply-To: <4320CD12342D49B39A1D074FB09C99A7@laptop>
References: <4320CD12342D49B39A1D074FB09C99A7@laptop>
Message-ID: <704f522a0912262001g6308c6f0yf7b75dcfc9ebed5a@mail.gmail.com>

If you are in a hurry --an old inoperative  hard drive will have two
of the bugars and mounted on a non magnetic plate which you can  brass
screw the thing onto your cane.

Elton--

On Fri, Dec 25, 2009 at 8:37 PM, Pete Shugar <pshugar at clearwire.net> wrote:
> What's a good source for a super magnet?
> How much?
> Pete IMCA1733
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


From minador at yahoo.com  Sat Dec 26 23:55:40 2009
From: minador at yahoo.com (Mark Bowling)
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 2009 20:55:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Re super magnet
In-Reply-To: <45CE086A65FA40A7960ABA2FB8941DAF@DAN1>
Message-ID: <120682.26882.qm@web54503.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Hi Pete,

I've used Forcefield too (Pie on eBay),and haven't had any issues (it's been a few years since we've done business however).

And be careful - I've had several near misses with the big magnets...

Mark
Vail, AZ



--- On Sat, 12/26/09, Dan Wray <daniel_wray at comcast.net> wrote:

> From: Dan Wray <daniel_wray at comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Re super magnet
> To: "Pete Shugar" <pshugar at clearwire.net>, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Saturday, December 26, 2009, 11:30 AM
> Pete,
> 
> I use this company: http://www.forcefieldmagnets.com/catalog/? Price
> varies with size.? Happy shopping.
> 
> Dan
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete Shugar" <pshugar at clearwire.net>
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 6:37 PM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Re super magnet
> 
> 
> > What's a good source for a super magnet?
> > How much?
> > Pete IMCA1733
> > 
> > ______________________________________________
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> > 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com  Sun Dec 27 15:08:15 2009
From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton)
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2009 12:08:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Meteorites for sale!
Message-ID: <230027.5529.qm@web46412.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Hi to all, hope everyone had a good holiday!

I have some really nice meteorites listed on ebay.
Samples include:
Karoonda
Lunars
Martians
Ureilites 
Eucrites
Howardites
Diogenites
Angrites
R-Chondrites 
and a good deal more listed and more to come over the next week!

Check my ebay listings here:
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZwanderingstarmeteoritesQQhtZ-1

As always, 10% off any item sold off ebay.

You can also visit my website:
www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com 
and see other nice meteorites for sale.

Thanks for looking, Hope everyone has a safe and happy new year!

Greg C.
IMCA 4682



      


From oxytropidoceras at cox.net  Sun Dec 27 15:50:10 2009
From: oxytropidoceras at cox.net (Paul Heinrich)
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2009 14:50:10 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Downloadable PDF Files of Papers About  Massive,
 Earth-like planets, Mars, and So Forth
Message-ID: <4B37C882.8070405@cox.net>

Dear Friends,

There are a few downloadable PDF files about Massive
Earth-like planets, Mars, and other interesting topics on
Edwin Kite's web at:

page of publications at http://eps.berkeley.edu/~kite/ .

They include:

1. Kite, E. S., I. Matsuyama, M. Manga, J. T.
Perron, and J X. Mitrovicad, 2009, True polar
wander driven by late-stage volcanism and the
distribution of paleopolar deposits on Mars.
Earth and Planetary Science Letters, vol. 280.
pp. 254?267. PDF file at:

http://eps.berkeley.edu/~kite/Kite_et_al_EPSL_2009.pdf

2. Kite, Palaeo-ice streams in the Equatorial Transition
Zone, Mars, 2006, 19th UCL Astronomy Colloq. Windsor.
poster. Image file at:

http://eps.berkeley.edu/~kite/CL2006/19UCLposter.jpg

3. Kite, E. S., 2006, Massive Earths: modelling
challenge, extraterrestrial diamond anvil,
long-lived habitat?, Hubbert Prize 2006, winning
essay. PDF file at:

http://eps.berkeley.edu/~kite/Huppert_Essay.pdf

Yours,

Paul H.


From leighannedelray at gmail.com  Sun Dec 27 16:43:46 2009
From: leighannedelray at gmail.com (Leigh Anne DelRay)
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2009 14:43:46 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Meteorite Auctions ending in couple hours....
Message-ID: <5e97e2850912271343y12b5335eg350508f091662726@mail.gmail.com>

Check it yo!
All the auctions can be seen here.
http://shop.ebay.com/callistodesigns/m.html?_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1
Take a look and bid, and bid a lot.

Happy Holidays all my lovely meteorite people! I can't wait to see
everyone, only a little over a month to go! WOO HOO!

Gem Show -- Here we come!!!!

~Leigh Anne

Sent from my iPhone


From oxytropidoceras at cox.net  Sun Dec 27 16:55:11 2009
From: oxytropidoceras at cox.net (Paul Heinrich)
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2009 15:55:11 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Off-Topic Science: Russia's Conquering Zeros
Message-ID: <4B37D7BF.6000200@cox.net>

Dear Friends,

This off topic from meteorites, but has something
to say about the practice of science in general in
different countries.

Russia's Conquering Zeros The strength of
post-Soviet math stems from decades of lonely
productivity by Masha Green, New York Times

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703740004574513870490836470.html

Yours,

Paul H.


From almitt2 at localnet.com  Sun Dec 27 17:32:01 2009
From: almitt2 at localnet.com (almitt2 at localnet.com)
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2009 17:32:01 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Bob Evans
Message-ID: <20091227173201.9d44s9dausggkwgo@webmail.localnet.com>

Greetings,

Sorry to spoil the holiday season by posting this. Since I was threaten 
by this fraud, I will again post some of the problems people have had 
with him. If you are buying from him, you are enabling him to continue 
to contaminate our collections and are just as guilty.

Just because he has bought back some of his bad items, does't make him o.k.
He sells under the ebay user name of maccers531. Beware!!!!!

--AL Mitterling

[meteorite-list] Evans and Court Judgments.

Steve Schoner schoner at mybluelight.com Sun Dec 14 14:29:51 EST 2008
Previous message: [meteorite-list] Helpful
Next message: [meteorite-list] Wanted : NWA 482 - playing the field
Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]
Hello all,

After reading this, there might be some recourse. I am not a lawyer-- 
but in the case of a civil judgment, in some states one can put a lien 
on all or or any of his personal titled property.

Try "fixing his wagon" by first putting a lien on his transportation. 
It won't affect him immediately, but if he tries to sell his vehicle... 
The lien will show up-- He can't transfer title till the lien is 
satisfied.

And if so, all his claimants can just pile the liens on.

Steve Schoner


Message: 6 Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 10:16:27 -0500 From: "al mitterling" 
<almitt at kconline.com> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD - Crusted 
Zagami, L3 Conglomerate To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com> 
Message-ID: <8E6D633437BD4B7592BD4BD9C002A95F at StarmanPC> 
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; 
reply-type=response

Greetings List Members,

It seems that a certain member in bad standing that continues to want 
to advertise here who has cheated a number of unsuspecting members by 
both not returning money to them after promising to do so and also 
misrepresenting meteorite types as something rare when they are not. A 
number of these victims wrote to me to thank me for posting my first 
email message about him.

Here are a few of the list archives indicating there are serious 
problems with this creep. You can also go here to see for your self a 
number of the problems that have been posted over the list for a number 
of years.

http://www.google.com/custom?q=bob+evans&domains=six.pairlist.net&sitesearch=six.pairlist. 
net&sitesearch=&sa=Search+the+Archives

I must warn the list of Bob Evans as well. I was supposed to receive a 
$125 refund from Bob over a month ago and I still have not received my 
money back, nor have I recieved a response from him after several email 
and phone call attempts. Well, I checked his Ebay history a few days 
ago and noticed that he had placed a $1500 bid on a meteorite not too 
long ago, yet he cannot afford to return my hard-earned money back to 
me? Never again! I warn everyone else not to do any business with Bob 
Evans. His unprofessionalism is a joke.

Ryan

Well, Bob Evans just called me after reading my email to the list and 
he was pissed-off as I had expected he would be.. nearly shouting at me 
through the phone line. It doesn't look like I wil be getting "a penny 
back" from him, so it looks like I'll have to use alternate routes to 
get my money back. Sorry to everyone else who has to read this, but his 
reaction to the situation is unacceptable. By the way Bob....I'm 22 
years old, not 15 as you had asked me during our brief phone 
altercation this evening. See you in Tucson next year... I'm sure 
everyone will be giving you a warm welcome.

Ryan

Bob Evans its another Cosmicvisitors alias Brad Sampson...sent money no 
material, useless excuses aside the mailbox not go etc.....

Mauro Daniel

McCartney and List, Doesn`t a theft of goods totaling a sum of 4,000+$ 
constitute a Felony in Texas? 
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20061122154905AAnQ0ts Thank 
you McCartney for your post to the list. Sincerely, Dirk...Tokyo

mccartney <mccartney at blackbearddata.com> wrote: As a member of IMCA, 
I feel it my duty to warn other meteorite buffs to avoid entanglements 
from questionable persons.

On June 24, 2006 I posted to the list as a courtesy that I had been the 
victim of a fraudulent trade with Bob Evans. This is the rest of the 
story...

After a year of trying to resolve the issue, it took me many more 
months to conclude that he just wasn't going to respond.

I sent emails, Ebay emails, registered letters and confirmed delivery 
letters, with no response from Mr. Evans. He had my piece and he wasn't 
going to finish the trade.

I sued Bob Evans in Williamson County, Texas Court. It went to court on 
October 19, 2006. Small CLaims suit #060094. He apparently tried to 
avoid being served his lawsuit by the Will County Sheriff, but they 
served him successfully. He did not respond to the suit, nor did he 
show in court.

He lost by default and now has a judgment of $4,800 against him. He now 
joins Mr. Casper in the hall of Shame.

Its my character flaw to be an overyly trusting guy. I have traded with 
people from South Africa to West Texas, Poland to Alaska. Never had a 
problem. On the whole the average meteorite fan is a fair, wholesome, 
science loving, respectable person. I encourage all of you to trade 
with your peers on this list, but do a little homework on your partner 
first to weed out the Caspers and Bob Evans's.

Last word, the meteorite community is a small sand box - Remember to 
play nice.

-mt IMCA 2760

Yes, there was a lawsuit against Bob Evans brought by me. It was in

> regards to a trade that was partially done, where I sent material and only



> received a partial trade, then Evans went quiet. No contact for many

> months. Eventually, I posted about it and received many replies that he

> has done this before. His modus operandi is usually to go quiet and not

> communicate. Which is what he's doing now. He did not show in court, I

> received a default judgment by the judge.



> Evans did not appeal and a judgment was issued. I spent the money to have

> the judgment filed in Illinois and a lien filed against his house. At this

> time he can not purchase or sell, or inherit real property until the

> judgment is paid. It is collecting 8% interest at this time.



> If I recall my contract law correctly, selling NWA junk as Zulu Queen

> would be 'Misrepresentation' as well as Unjust Enrichment. Selling Zulu

> Queen that he didn't know was NWA junk is simply 'Mutual

> Misunderstanding'. Good luck in proving he had prior knowledge it was NWA

> junk.



> This is a small sandbox we play in. Play nice. McCartney Taylor


Dear List,

This is a public warning to Bob Evans to stop using the NWA 1110 and 
NWA 1877 designations and meteoritelab descriptions. I filed a blanket 
complaint claim with ebay and found out that it is considered 
fraudulent to use lab numbers that do not apply to your samples. It is 
also against the law to steal copyrighted descriptions. It took me 
weeks to explain to ebay what is involved with getting numbers assigned 
to NWA meteorites. I will start pulling the trigger soon on this kind 
of fraud starting with Bob Evans. If ebay gets too many complaints the 
meteorite subsection might be reconsidered (eliminated). That is why I 
am posting this message publicly to avoid continued contact with ebay. 
Here are two of the many fraudulent auctions Bob Evans is involved in:


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3239&item=2287562058&rd=1&ssPageNam 
e=WDVW


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3239&item=2287562068&rd=1&ssPageNam 
e=WDVW

Consider this warning to edit your numbers and descriptions to reflect 
the truth or I will report this fraud to ebay when I return tomorrow. 
My attorney gave me the green light to start pursuing these cases and I 
will exercise my options.

Wishing everybody else the best,

Greetings List,

I could go on and on and post dozens if not more posts on people having 
trouble with this thief but it would be counterproductive to our 
discussion here. I feel I have done my part to warn people of this 
creep and if you don't take the advise of this email and the emails of 
others who have, had trouble with this criminal then we'll await to see 
your post on the trouble you are having by thinking this is some kind 
of a joke. Best wishes to all!

--AL Mitterling



------------------------------

Message: 7 Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 09:35:37 -0600 From: "Bob Evans" 
<bobe5531 at comcast.net> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD - Crusted 
Zagami, L3 Conglomerate To: "al mitterling" <almitt at kconline.com> 
Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Message-ID: 
<000601c95e01$9d5c9b40$0201a8c0 at yourae066c3a9b> Content-Type: 
text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response

Al,

Never heard of Mauro Daniel. Sent money, no material ? Thats a joke. 
Look at my feedback. A clown like this doesnt even know who he dealt 
with

Ryan is a little self centered brat who blew off a deal with me. 
McCartney and I had a deal go bad that we are to this day trying to 
reconcile. Misrepresent ? Never ! NWA 1110 - Adams efforts to comletely 
control certain areas of the market.

As for you Al, You never bought a single item from me, have you? So if 
you have a problem with me I suggest that you take it up with me face 
to face and stop hiding behind that monitor you little P***Y

----- Original Message ----- From: "al mitterling" <almitt at 
kconline.com> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com> Sent: 
Sunday, December 14, 2008 9:16 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD - 
Crusted Zagami, L3 Conglomerate



> Greetings List Members,

>

> It seems that a certain member in bad standing that continues to want to

> advertise here who has cheated a number of unsuspecting members by both

> not returning money to them after promising to do so and also

> misrepresenting meteorite types as something rare when they are not. A

> number of these victims wrote to me to thank me for posting my first email

> message about him.

>

> Here are a few of the list archives indicating there are serious problems

> with this creep. You can also go here to see for your self a number of the

> problems that have been posted over the list for a number of years.

>

> http://www.google.com/custom?q=bob+evans&domains=six.pairlist.net&sitesearch=six.pair

list.net&sitesearch=&sa=Search+the+Archives

>

> I must warn the list of Bob Evans as well. I was supposed to receive a

> $125 refund from Bob over a month ago and I still have not received my

> money back, nor have I recieved a response from him after several email

> and phone call attempts. Well, I checked his Ebay history a few days ago

> and noticed that he had placed a $1500 bid on a meteorite not too long

> ago, yet he cannot afford to return my hard-earned money back to me? Never

> again! I warn everyone else not to do any business with Bob Evans. His

> unprofessionalism is a joke.

>

> Ryan

>

> Well, Bob Evans just called me after reading my email to the list and he

> was pissed-off as I had expected he would be.. nearly shouting at me

> through the phone line. It doesn't look like I wil be getting "a penny

> back" from him, so it looks like I'll have to use alternate routes to get

> my money back. Sorry to everyone else who has to read this, but his

> reaction to the situation is unacceptable. By the way Bob....I'm 22 years

> old, not 15 as you had asked me during our brief phone altercation this

> evening. See you in Tucson next year... I'm sure everyone will be giving

> you a warm welcome.

>

> Ryan

>

> Bob Evans its another Cosmicvisitors alias Brad Sampson...sent money no

> material, useless excuses aside the mailbox not go etc.....

>

> Mauro Daniel

>

> McCartney and List,

> Doesn`t a theft of goods totaling a sum of 4,000+$ constitute a Felony in

> Texas?

> http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20061122154905AAnQ0ts

> Thank you McCartney for your post to the list.

> Sincerely, Dirk...Tokyo

>

> mccartney <mccartney at blackbearddata.com> wrote:

> As a member of IMCA, I feel it my duty to warn other meteorite buffs to

> avoid entanglements from questionable persons.

>

> On June 24, 2006 I posted to the list as a courtesy that I had been the

> victim of a fraudulent trade with Bob Evans. This is the rest of the

> story...

>

> After a year of trying to resolve the issue, it took me many more months

> to conclude that he just wasn't going to respond.

>

> I sent emails, Ebay emails, registered letters and confirmed delivery

> letters, with no response from Mr. Evans. He had my piece and he wasn't

> going to finish the trade.

>

> I sued Bob Evans in Williamson County, Texas Court. It went to court on

> October 19, 2006. Small CLaims suit #060094. He apparently tried to avoid

> being served his lawsuit by the Will County Sheriff, but they served him

> successfully. He did not respond to the suit, nor did he show in court.

>

> He lost by default and now has a judgment of $4,800 against him. He now

> joins Mr. Casper in the hall of Shame.

>

> Its my character flaw to be an overyly trusting guy. I have traded with

> people from South Africa to West Texas, Poland to Alaska. Never had a

> problem. On the whole the average meteorite fan is a fair, wholesome,

> science loving, respectable person. I encourage all of you to trade with

> your peers on this list, but do a little homework on your partner first to

> weed out the Caspers and Bob Evans's.

>

> Last word, the meteorite community is a small sand box - Remember to play

> nice.

>

> -mt

> IMCA 2760

>

> Yes, there was a lawsuit against Bob Evans brought by me. It was in

>> regards to a trade that was partially done, where I sent material and

>> only

>

>> received a partial trade, then Evans went quiet. No contact for many

>> months. Eventually, I posted about it and received many replies that he

>> has done this before. His modus operandi is usually to go quiet and not

>> communicate. Which is what he's doing now. He did not show in court, I

>> received a default judgment by the judge.

>

>> Evans did not appeal and a judgment was issued. I spent the money to have

>> the judgment filed in Illinois and a lien filed against his house. At

>> this time he can not purchase or sell, or inherit real property until the

>> judgment is paid. It is collecting 8% interest at this time.

>

>> If I recall my contract law correctly, selling NWA junk as Zulu Queen

>> would be 'Misrepresentation' as well as Unjust Enrichment. Selling Zulu

>> Queen that he didn't know was NWA junk is simply 'Mutual

>> Misunderstanding'. Good luck in proving he had prior knowledge it was NWA

>> junk.

>

>> This is a small sandbox we play in. Play nice. McCartney Taylor

>

> Dear List,

>

> This is a public warning to Bob Evans to stop using the NWA 1110 and NWA

> 1877 designations and meteoritelab descriptions. I filed a blanket

> complaint claim with ebay and found out that it is considered fraudulent

> to

> use lab numbers that do not apply to your samples. It is also against the

> law to steal copyrighted descriptions. It took me weeks to explain to ebay

> what is involved with getting numbers assigned to NWA meteorites. I will

> start pulling the trigger soon on this kind of fraud starting with Bob

> Evans. If ebay gets too many complaints the meteorite subsection might be

> reconsidered (eliminated). That is why I am posting this message publicly

> to avoid continued contact with ebay. Here are two of the many fraudulent

> auctions Bob Evans is involved in:

>

>

> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3239&item=2287562058&rd=1&ssPa

geName=WDVW

>

>

> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3239&item=2287562068&rd=1&ssPa

geName=WDVW

>

> Consider this warning to edit your numbers and descriptions to reflect the

> truth or I will report this fraud to ebay when I return tomorrow. My

> attorney gave me the green light to start pursuing these cases and I will

> exercise my options.

>

> Wishing everybody else the best,

>

> Greetings List,

>

> I could go on and on and post dozens if not more posts on people having

> trouble with this thief but it would be counterproductive to our

> discussion here. I feel I have done my part to warn people of this creep

> and if you don't take the advise of this email and the emails of others

> who have, had trouble with this criminal then we'll await to see your post

> on the trouble you are having by thinking this is some kind of a joke.

> Best wishes to all!

>

> --AL Mitterling

>




From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com  Sun Dec 27 18:24:30 2009
From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton)
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2009 15:24:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Bob Evans
In-Reply-To: <20091227173201.9d44s9dausggkwgo@webmail.localnet.com>
Message-ID: <131417.36154.qm@web46405.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

I have never been a fan of Bob Evans.
The food is terrible and its always cold. Add that to the poor customer service and its plain bad all around.

I too would have to say for people to stay away from Bob Evans. Try IHOP or something like that instead.

Hope everyone is good!

Greg C.
www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com


--- On Sun, 12/27/09, almitt2 at localnet.com <almitt2 at localnet.com> wrote:

> From: almitt2 at localnet.com <almitt2 at localnet.com>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Bob Evans
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Sunday, December 27, 2009, 5:32 PM
> Greetings,
> 
> Sorry to spoil the holiday season by posting this. Since I
> was threaten by this fraud, I will again post some of the
> problems people have had with him. If you are buying from
> him, you are enabling him to continue to contaminate our
> collections and are just as guilty.
> 
> Just because he has bought back some of his bad items,
> does't make him o.k.
> He sells under the ebay user name of maccers531.
> Beware!!!!!
> 
> --AL Mitterling
> 
> [meteorite-list] Evans and Court Judgments.
> 
> Steve Schoner schoner at mybluelight.com Sun Dec 14
> 14:29:51 EST 2008
> Previous message: [meteorite-list] Helpful
> Next message: [meteorite-list] Wanted : NWA 482 - playing
> the field
> Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [
> author ]
> Hello all,
> 
> After reading this, there might be some recourse. I am not
> a lawyer-- but in the case of a civil judgment, in some
> states one can put a lien on all or or any of his personal
> titled property.
> 
> Try "fixing his wagon" by first putting a lien on his
> transportation. It won't affect him immediately, but if he
> tries to sell his vehicle... The lien will show up-- He
> can't transfer title till the lien is satisfied.
> 
> And if so, all his claimants can just pile the liens on.
> 
> Steve Schoner
> 
> 
> Message: 6 Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 10:16:27 -0500 From: "al
> mitterling" <almitt at kconline.com> Subject: Re:
> [meteorite-list] AD - Crusted Zagami, L3 Conglomerate To:
> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com> Message-ID:
> <8E6D633437BD4B7592BD4BD9C002A95F at StarmanPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed;
> charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response
> 
> Greetings List Members,
> 
> It seems that a certain member in bad standing that
> continues to want to advertise here who has cheated a number
> of unsuspecting members by both not returning money to them
> after promising to do so and also misrepresenting meteorite
> types as something rare when they are not. A number of these
> victims wrote to me to thank me for posting my first email
> message about him.
> 
> Here are a few of the list archives indicating there are
> serious problems with this creep. You can also go here to
> see for your self a number of the problems that have been
> posted over the list for a number of years.
> 
> http://www.google.com/custom?q=bob+evans&domains=six.pairlist.net&sitesearch=six.pairlist.
> net&sitesearch=&sa=Search+the+Archives
> 
> I must warn the list of Bob Evans as well. I was supposed
> to receive a $125 refund from Bob over a month ago and I
> still have not received my money back, nor have I recieved a
> response from him after several email and phone call
> attempts. Well, I checked his Ebay history a few days ago
> and noticed that he had placed a $1500 bid on a meteorite
> not too long ago, yet he cannot afford to return my
> hard-earned money back to me? Never again! I warn everyone
> else not to do any business with Bob Evans. His
> unprofessionalism is a joke.
> 
> Ryan
> 
> Well, Bob Evans just called me after reading my email to
> the list and he was pissed-off as I had expected he would
> be.. nearly shouting at me through the phone line. It
> doesn't look like I wil be getting "a penny back" from him,
> so it looks like I'll have to use alternate routes to get my
> money back. Sorry to everyone else who has to read this, but
> his reaction to the situation is unacceptable. By the way
> Bob....I'm 22 years old, not 15 as you had asked me during
> our brief phone altercation this evening. See you in Tucson
> next year... I'm sure everyone will be giving you a warm
> welcome.
> 
> Ryan
> 
> Bob Evans its another Cosmicvisitors alias Brad
> Sampson...sent money no material, useless excuses aside the
> mailbox not go etc.....
> 
> Mauro Daniel
> 
> McCartney and List, Doesn`t a theft of goods totaling a sum
> of 4,000+$ constitute a Felony in Texas? http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20061122154905AAnQ0ts
> Thank you McCartney for your post to the list. Sincerely,
> Dirk...Tokyo
> 
> mccartney <mccartney at blackbearddata.com> wrote: As
> a member of IMCA, I feel it my duty to warn other meteorite
> buffs to avoid entanglements from questionable persons.
> 
> On June 24, 2006 I posted to the list as a courtesy that I
> had been the victim of a fraudulent trade with Bob Evans.
> This is the rest of the story...
> 
> After a year of trying to resolve the issue, it took me
> many more months to conclude that he just wasn't going to
> respond.
> 
> I sent emails, Ebay emails, registered letters and
> confirmed delivery letters, with no response from Mr. Evans.
> He had my piece and he wasn't going to finish the trade.
> 
> I sued Bob Evans in Williamson County, Texas Court. It went
> to court on October 19, 2006. Small CLaims suit #060094. He
> apparently tried to avoid being served his lawsuit by the
> Will County Sheriff, but they served him successfully. He
> did not respond to the suit, nor did he show in court.
> 
> He lost by default and now has a judgment of $4,800 against
> him. He now joins Mr. Casper in the hall of Shame.
> 
> Its my character flaw to be an overyly trusting guy. I have
> traded with people from South Africa to West Texas, Poland
> to Alaska. Never had a problem. On the whole the average
> meteorite fan is a fair, wholesome, science loving,
> respectable person. I encourage all of you to trade with
> your peers on this list, but do a little homework on your
> partner first to weed out the Caspers and Bob Evans's.
> 
> Last word, the meteorite community is a small sand box -
> Remember to play nice.
> 
> -mt IMCA 2760
> 
> Yes, there was a lawsuit against Bob Evans brought by me.
> It was in
> 
> > regards to a trade that was partially done, where I
> sent material and only
> 
> 
> 
> > received a partial trade, then Evans went quiet. No
> contact for many
> 
> > months. Eventually, I posted about it and received
> many replies that he
> 
> > has done this before. His modus operandi is usually to
> go quiet and not
> 
> > communicate. Which is what he's doing now. He did not
> show in court, I
> 
> > received a default judgment by the judge.
> 
> 
> 
> > Evans did not appeal and a judgment was issued. I
> spent the money to have
> 
> > the judgment filed in Illinois and a lien filed
> against his house. At this
> 
> > time he can not purchase or sell, or inherit real
> property until the
> 
> > judgment is paid. It is collecting 8% interest at this
> time.
> 
> 
> 
> > If I recall my contract law correctly, selling NWA
> junk as Zulu Queen
> 
> > would be 'Misrepresentation' as well as Unjust
> Enrichment. Selling Zulu
> 
> > Queen that he didn't know was NWA junk is simply
> 'Mutual
> 
> > Misunderstanding'. Good luck in proving he had prior
> knowledge it was NWA
> 
> > junk.
> 
> 
> 
> > This is a small sandbox we play in. Play nice.
> McCartney Taylor
> 
> 
> Dear List,
> 
> This is a public warning to Bob Evans to stop using the NWA
> 1110 and NWA 1877 designations and meteoritelab
> descriptions. I filed a blanket complaint claim with ebay
> and found out that it is considered fraudulent to use lab
> numbers that do not apply to your samples. It is also
> against the law to steal copyrighted descriptions. It took
> me weeks to explain to ebay what is involved with getting
> numbers assigned to NWA meteorites. I will start pulling the
> trigger soon on this kind of fraud starting with Bob Evans.
> If ebay gets too many complaints the meteorite subsection
> might be reconsidered (eliminated). That is why I am posting
> this message publicly to avoid continued contact with ebay.
> Here are two of the many fraudulent auctions Bob Evans is
> involved in:
> 
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3239&item=2287562058&rd=1&ssPageNam
> e=WDVW
> 
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3239&item=2287562068&rd=1&ssPageNam
> e=WDVW
> 
> Consider this warning to edit your numbers and descriptions
> to reflect the truth or I will report this fraud to ebay
> when I return tomorrow. My attorney gave me the green light
> to start pursuing these cases and I will exercise my
> options.
> 
> Wishing everybody else the best,
> 
> Greetings List,
> 
> I could go on and on and post dozens if not more posts on
> people having trouble with this thief but it would be
> counterproductive to our discussion here. I feel I have done
> my part to warn people of this creep and if you don't take
> the advise of this email and the emails of others who have,
> had trouble with this criminal then we'll await to see your
> post on the trouble you are having by thinking this is some
> kind of a joke. Best wishes to all!
> 
> --AL Mitterling
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 7 Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 09:35:37 -0600 From: "Bob
> Evans" <bobe5531 at comcast.net> Subject: Re:
> [meteorite-list] AD - Crusted Zagami, L3 Conglomerate To:
> "al mitterling" <almitt at kconline.com> Cc:
> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Message-ID:
> <000601c95e01$9d5c9b40$0201a8c0 at yourae066c3a9b>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed;
> charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response
> 
> Al,
> 
> Never heard of Mauro Daniel. Sent money, no material ?
> Thats a joke. Look at my feedback. A clown like this doesnt
> even know who he dealt with
> 
> Ryan is a little self centered brat who blew off a deal
> with me. McCartney and I had a deal go bad that we are to
> this day trying to reconcile. Misrepresent ? Never ! NWA
> 1110 - Adams efforts to comletely control certain areas of
> the market.
> 
> As for you Al, You never bought a single item from me, have
> you? So if you have a problem with me I suggest that you
> take it up with me face to face and stop hiding behind that
> monitor you little P***Y
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "al mitterling"
> <almitt at kconline.com> To: <meteorite-list at
> meteoritecentral.com> Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008
> 9:16 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD - Crusted Zagami,
> L3 Conglomerate
> 
> 
> 
> > Greetings List Members,
> 
> > 
> 
> > It seems that a certain member in bad standing that
> continues to want to
> 
> > advertise here who has cheated a number of
> unsuspecting members by both
> 
> > not returning money to them after promising to do so
> and also
> 
> > misrepresenting meteorite types as something rare when
> they are not. A
> 
> > number of these victims wrote to me to thank me for
> posting my first email
> 
> > message about him.
> 
> > 
> 
> > Here are a few of the list archives indicating there
> are serious problems
> 
> > with this creep. You can also go here to see for your
> self a number of the
> 
> > problems that have been posted over the list for a
> number of years.
> 
> > 
> 
> > http://www.google.com/custom?q=bob+evans&domains=six.pairlist.net&sitesearch=six.pair
> 
> list.net&sitesearch=&sa=Search+the+Archives
> 
> > 
> 
> > I must warn the list of Bob Evans as well. I was
> supposed to receive a
> 
> > $125 refund from Bob over a month ago and I still have
> not received my
> 
> > money back, nor have I recieved a response from him
> after several email
> 
> > and phone call attempts. Well, I checked his Ebay
> history a few days ago
> 
> > and noticed that he had placed a $1500 bid on a
> meteorite not too long
> 
> > ago, yet he cannot afford to return my hard-earned
> money back to me? Never
> 
> > again! I warn everyone else not to do any business
> with Bob Evans. His
> 
> > unprofessionalism is a joke.
> 
> > 
> 
> > Ryan
> 
> > 
> 
> > Well, Bob Evans just called me after reading my email
> to the list and he
> 
> > was pissed-off as I had expected he would be.. nearly
> shouting at me
> 
> > through the phone line. It doesn't look like I wil be
> getting "a penny
> 
> > back" from him, so it looks like I'll have to use
> alternate routes to get
> 
> > my money back. Sorry to everyone else who has to read
> this, but his
> 
> > reaction to the situation is unacceptable. By the way
> Bob....I'm 22 years
> 
> > old, not 15 as you had asked me during our brief phone
> altercation this
> 
> > evening. See you in Tucson next year... I'm sure
> everyone will be giving
> 
> > you a warm welcome.
> 
> > 
> 
> > Ryan
> 
> > 
> 
> > Bob Evans its another Cosmicvisitors alias Brad
> Sampson...sent money no
> 
> > material, useless excuses aside the mailbox not go
> etc.....
> 
> > 
> 
> > Mauro Daniel
> 
> > 
> 
> > McCartney and List,
> 
> > Doesn`t a theft of goods totaling a sum of 4,000+$
> constitute a Felony in
> 
> > Texas?
> 
> > http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20061122154905AAnQ0ts
> 
> > Thank you McCartney for your post to the list.
> 
> > Sincerely, Dirk...Tokyo
> 
> > 
> 
> > mccartney <mccartney at blackbearddata.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > As a member of IMCA, I feel it my duty to warn other
> meteorite buffs to
> 
> > avoid entanglements from questionable persons.
> 
> > 
> 
> > On June 24, 2006 I posted to the list as a courtesy
> that I had been the
> 
> > victim of a fraudulent trade with Bob Evans. This is
> the rest of the
> 
> > story...
> 
> > 
> 
> > After a year of trying to resolve the issue, it took
> me many more months
> 
> > to conclude that he just wasn't going to respond.
> 
> > 
> 
> > I sent emails, Ebay emails, registered letters and
> confirmed delivery
> 
> > letters, with no response from Mr. Evans. He had my
> piece and he wasn't
> 
> > going to finish the trade.
> 
> > 
> 
> > I sued Bob Evans in Williamson County, Texas Court. It
> went to court on
> 
> > October 19, 2006. Small CLaims suit #060094. He
> apparently tried to avoid
> 
> > being served his lawsuit by the Will County Sheriff,
> but they served him
> 
> > successfully. He did not respond to the suit, nor did
> he show in court.
> 
> > 
> 
> > He lost by default and now has a judgment of $4,800
> against him. He now
> 
> > joins Mr. Casper in the hall of Shame.
> 
> > 
> 
> > Its my character flaw to be an overyly trusting guy. I
> have traded with
> 
> > people from South Africa to West Texas, Poland to
> Alaska. Never had a
> 
> > problem. On the whole the average meteorite fan is a
> fair, wholesome,
> 
> > science loving, respectable person. I encourage all of
> you to trade with
> 
> > your peers on this list, but do a little homework on
> your partner first to
> 
> > weed out the Caspers and Bob Evans's.
> 
> > 
> 
> > Last word, the meteorite community is a small sand box
> - Remember to play
> 
> > nice.
> 
> > 
> 
> > -mt
> 
> > IMCA 2760
> 
> > 
> 
> > Yes, there was a lawsuit against Bob Evans brought by
> me. It was in
> 
> >> regards to a trade that was partially done, where
> I sent material and
> 
> >> only
> 
> > 
> 
> >> received a partial trade, then Evans went quiet.
> No contact for many
> 
> >> months. Eventually, I posted about it and received
> many replies that he
> 
> >> has done this before. His modus operandi is
> usually to go quiet and not
> 
> >> communicate. Which is what he's doing now. He did
> not show in court, I
> 
> >> received a default judgment by the judge.
> 
> > 
> 
> >> Evans did not appeal and a judgment was issued. I
> spent the money to have
> 
> >> the judgment filed in Illinois and a lien filed
> against his house. At
> 
> >> this time he can not purchase or sell, or inherit
> real property until the
> 
> >> judgment is paid. It is collecting 8% interest at
> this time.
> 
> > 
> 
> >> If I recall my contract law correctly, selling NWA
> junk as Zulu Queen
> 
> >> would be 'Misrepresentation' as well as Unjust
> Enrichment. Selling Zulu
> 
> >> Queen that he didn't know was NWA junk is simply
> 'Mutual
> 
> >> Misunderstanding'. Good luck in proving he had
> prior knowledge it was NWA
> 
> >> junk.
> 
> > 
> 
> >> This is a small sandbox we play in. Play nice.
> McCartney Taylor
> 
> > 
> 
> > Dear List,
> 
> > 
> 
> > This is a public warning to Bob Evans to stop using
> the NWA 1110 and NWA
> 
> > 1877 designations and meteoritelab descriptions. I
> filed a blanket
> 
> > complaint claim with ebay and found out that it is
> considered fraudulent
> 
> > to
> 
> > use lab numbers that do not apply to your samples. It
> is also against the
> 
> > law to steal copyrighted descriptions. It took me
> weeks to explain to ebay
> 
> > what is involved with getting numbers assigned to NWA
> meteorites. I will
> 
> > start pulling the trigger soon on this kind of fraud
> starting with Bob
> 
> > Evans. If ebay gets too many complaints the meteorite
> subsection might be
> 
> > reconsidered (eliminated). That is why I am posting
> this message publicly
> 
> > to avoid continued contact with ebay. Here are two of
> the many fraudulent
> 
> > auctions Bob Evans is involved in:
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3239&item=2287562058&rd=1&ssPa
> 
> geName=WDVW
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3239&item=2287562068&rd=1&ssPa
> 
> geName=WDVW
> 
> > 
> 
> > Consider this warning to edit your numbers and
> descriptions to reflect the
> 
> > truth or I will report this fraud to ebay when I
> return tomorrow. My
> 
> > attorney gave me the green light to start pursuing
> these cases and I will
> 
> > exercise my options.
> 
> > 
> 
> > Wishing everybody else the best,
> 
> > 
> 
> > Greetings List,
> 
> > 
> 
> > I could go on and on and post dozens if not more posts
> on people having
> 
> > trouble with this thief but it would be
> counterproductive to our
> 
> > discussion here. I feel I have done my part to warn
> people of this creep
> 
> > and if you don't take the advise of this email and the
> emails of others
> 
> > who have, had trouble with this criminal then we'll
> await to see your post
> 
> > on the trouble you are having by thinking this is some
> kind of a joke.
> 
> > Best wishes to all!
> 
> > 
> 
> > --AL Mitterling
> 
> > 
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      


From STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com  Sun Dec 27 21:12:33 2009
From: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com (STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2009 21:12:33 EST
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite publications ad
Message-ID: <ce1.5dd70609.38696e11@aol.com>

Hi List,  This is an ad for some meteorite publications.  These  items were 
just listed on eBay.  My selling links are:  

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260529427235&ssPageName=S
TRK:MESELX:IT


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260529441363&ssPageName=S
TRK:MESELX:IT

I  also have some meteorites listed but I wanted to call attention to these 
less  typical items.  Both started at $9.
 
Take a look!  Thanks    Tom Phillips  eBay ID:  starsinthedirt

The first is a book: Proceeding of the Second Lunar  Science Conference  
Houston Texas, Jan 11-14, 1971   986  pages

The second listing is a lot of scientific meteorite papers.   These are not 
papers loosely related to meteorites but papers written directly  about 
meteorites.  There are 92 PAPERS from the period 60'S-90'S.

3  are bound individually but the rest were removed from publications and  
stapled.
Many are from before the Internet so a paper copy might be the only  way to 
read it.

Some very interesting subjects, This is a partial list to  give you an idea.

Petrology of eucrites, howardites and  mesosiderite  1967  29 pages
A petrologic and isotopic study of  winonaites  1998  19 pages
Apollo 12 clinopyroxenes: chemical  trends   1970   7 pages
Analysis of chondritic  interplanetary dust thin sections  1988  12 pages
Comment on "The  nature and origin of ureilites"  1983   5 pages
The chemical  durability of tektites  1983  11 pages
Ti3+ in meteoritic  hibonite  1988  17 pages
Composition and origin of Nuevo Laredo  trend eucrite  1986  13 pages
A corundum rich inclusion in the  Murchison carbonaceous chondrite  1981  
11 pages
Impact melting of  the Cachari eucrite 3.0 Gy ago  1985  6 pages
Al rich objects in  ordinary chondrites:  Related origin of carbonaceous 
and ordinary  chondrites and their constituents  1984  17 pages
Plagioclase rich  inclusions in carbonaceous chondrite meteorites: Liquid 
condensates?   1986  22 pages
Alkali differentiation in LL chondrites  1983   15 pages
Al Sm Eu Sr systematics of eucrites and Moon rocks  1983   13 pages
Origin of moldavites  1987  19 pages
Noble gases in the  diamond free urilite, ALHA 78019  1986  10 pages
Trace elements in  rims and interiors of Chainpur chondrules  1984  10 pages
Chemical  compositions of refractory inclusions in the Murchison C2 
chondrite   1984  17 pages
A calcium aluminum rich inclusion from the Essebi (CM2)  chondrite  1084  
16 pages
A prize noble Ur Fremdling (CAI)   1985  22 pages
Zelda & co Petrogenisis of sulfide Fremdlinge, solar  Nebula processes  
1987   19 pages
Noble gas contents of  shergottite, Martian origin of SNC meteorites  1984  
16 pages
High  resolution mass spectrometric investigation of the organic 
constituents of the  Murray and Holbrook chondrites  1967  29 pages





From korotev at wustl.edu  Mon Dec 28 14:15:38 2009
From: korotev at wustl.edu (Randy Korotev)
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 13:15:38 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Lindfors avalanche!
In-Reply-To: <4B3643BD.5030102@usgs.gov>
References: <4B3643BD.5030102@usgs.gov>
Message-ID: <200912281915.nBSJF0W20257@levee.wustl.edu>

I've asked him to stop, too, but he hasn't done it.  This calendar 
year I've received a minimum of 3801 e-mails from him (~11/day) with 
84,805 JPG attachments.  I say "minimum" because our IT guy just 
trashes them if I don't clean up my mail box every few days.  I 
derive some bizarre pleasure from counting them.


At 11:11 26-12-09 Saturday, you wrote:
>Omg, I just got 20 Lindfors-o-grams all at once, with nearly 50 Mb 
>of attached images. Has anybody figured out how to stop this spammer?
>
>Jeff

Randy Korotev 




From mail at mhmeteorites.com  Mon Dec 28 16:18:53 2009
From: mail at mhmeteorites.com (mail at mhmeteorites.com)
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 13:18:53 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Deaths? Interesting old article-read
Message-ID: <20091228131853.zxoekzx8w0w0cwcg@webmail.mhmeteorites.com>

A friend sent this link to me in regard to the Bear Creek meteorite.
<http://www.coloradohistoricnewspapers.org/Repository/ml.asp?Ref=Uk1ELzE4NjYvMDUvMTQjQXIwMDIwMA==&Mode=Gif&Locale=english-skin-custom>

Near the end of the text it details the deaths of 3 monks and 2  
Swedish sailors by meteorite impact!
Has anyone heard of this?  The passage reads:

  "A few instances are on record of buildings being struck and set on  
fire and persons struck dead by the fall of aerolites.  These Three  
monks were killed, one on the 4th September 1611, at Crema (?),  
another at Milan, in 1650, and a third in the same place in 1660.  In  
1674 two Swedish sailors on board ship were killed by the fall of one."

Having never heard of this I searched the Catalog of Meteorites and  
came up blank.  Has anyone heard of these falls and can they be  
substantiated?

Matt Morgan


From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Mon Dec 28 18:08:02 2009
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 15:08:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars Odyssey THEMIS Images: December 21-25, 2009
Message-ID: <200912282308.nBSN82cb028811@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>


MARS ODYSSEY THEMIS IMAGES
December 21-25, 2009

o Gullies (21 December 2009)
  http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20091221a

o Candor Chasma Landslide (22 December 2009)
  http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20091222a

o Mangala Valles (23 December 2009)
  http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20091223a

o Proctor Crater Dunes (24 December 2009)
  http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20091224a

o Dark Slope Streaks (25 December 2009)
  http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20091225a


All of the THEMIS images are archived here:

http://themis.asu.edu/latest.html

NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory manages the 2001 Mars Odyssey mission 
for NASA's Office of Space Science, Washington, D.C. The Thermal Emission 
Imaging System (THEMIS) was developed by Arizona State University,
Tempe, in co.oration with Raytheon Santa Barbara Remote Sensing. 
The THEMIS investigation is led by Dr. Philip Christensen at Arizona State 
University. Lockheed Martin Astronautics, Denver, is the prime contractor 
for the Odyssey project, and developed and built the orbiter. Mission 
operations are conducted jointly from Lockheed Martin and from JPL, a 
division of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena. 





From lintonius at earthlink.net  Mon Dec 28 19:28:13 2009
From: lintonius at earthlink.net (Linton Rohr)
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 16:28:13 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list]  Tucson - activity first weekend
References: <7b03.26513f87.38680c83@aol.com>
Message-ID: <84411522BF2E4E1E853E1CA04EA15EDF@D190TH71>

Ahoy there listees.
I'm wondering how much activity there will be the first couple days of the 
show. I've heard a couple folks say that it takes a couple days for everyone 
to get the rooms up and running. I was only there a few days in the middle 
of last year's show, but had a great time, and brought home some nice 
pieces.
This year, I had been planning on arriving Saturday the 30th, to get an 
early start on my shopping, but I just realized I have concert tickets for 
Sunday the 31st. I'm not sure weather to show up in Tucson Monday, or blow 
off the concert. Any thoughts? Thank you in advance.
Linton 



From dave at fallingrocks.com  Mon Dec 28 20:06:48 2009
From: dave at fallingrocks.com (Dave Gheesling)
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 20:06:48 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] UPDATE RE:  Whetstone Mountains Monograph
In-Reply-To: <7C640E28081AEE4B952F008D1E913F17026519DC@0461-its-exmb04.us.saic.com>
References: <965722.59450.qm@web46413.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
	<7C640E28081AEE4B952F008D1E913F17026519DC@0461-its-exmb04.us.saic.com>
Message-ID: <37AE110F1CF1494C884A0CC3AAC7441F@meteorroom>

Rob, Greg & All,

Rob, your comments below re: the Limited Edition Whetstone Mountains
meteorite monograph being a "value for the small price" were much
appreciated, as that was most definitely the intent of the offering.
There's no telling where the one-time eBay listing I posted last week will
end, but from the looks of it this notion of value seems to be on target as
Jack and I had hoped:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180448321242 

Thanks again to all of you who have purchased copies, particularly to those
who did so sight-unseen when the monograph was first introduced last month!

All the best, and Happy New Year!

Dave
www.fallingrocks.com

-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Matson,
Robert D.
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 7:01 PM
To: Greg Catterton; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Whetstone Mountains Monograph

Hi All,

I wholeheartedly concur with Greg -- I received my Whetstone Mountains
monograph today from Dave, and it is a top-notch job. Excellent
photo-documentation of the finds, and a terrific value for the small price
Dave was asking.
Congrats to all
involved in this story of Arizona's latest fall, and in particular to Jack
Schrader for the many weeks of legwork and hot-temperature field work in the
(continuing)
recovery of this fall.

Best wishes,
Rob

-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Greg
Catterton
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 3:47 PM
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: [meteorite-list] Whetstone Mountains Monograph

I just received my autographed copy of Whetstone Mountains monograph.

I have to say an excellent job was done on this, and I am super pleased to
have one.
The documentation is an incredible read that I will certainly take time to
read more then once.
The fragment is got even had a nice spot of fusion crust on it!

If you ordered one and have not got it yet, just wait!!!
Thats all Im gonna say. I dont want to spoil it for those that have not seen
it in person.

Great job to all involved in this.

Greg C.
______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From gmhupe at htn.net  Mon Dec 28 20:16:48 2009
From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe)
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 20:16:48 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Tucson - activity first weekend
References: <7b03.26513f87.38680c83@aol.com>
	<84411522BF2E4E1E853E1CA04EA15EDF@D190TH71>
Message-ID: <76331F199D2D41BA89807071AA3ECCD4@Gregor>

Ahoy Linton!

you wrote:
"This year, I had been planning on arriving Saturday the 30th, to get an
early start on my shopping, but I just realized I have concert tickets for
Sunday the 31st. I'm not sure weather to show up in Tucson Monday, or blow
off the concert. "

A Mineral Show is the only true "Rock Concert"! ;-)

Best regards,
Greg

====================
Greg Hupe
The Hupe Collection
NaturesVault (eBay)
gmhupe at htn.net
www.LunarRock.com
IMCA 3163
====================
Click here for my current eBay auctions: 
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Linton Rohr" <lintonius at earthlink.net>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 7:28 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Tucson - activity first weekend


> Ahoy there listees.
> I'm wondering how much activity there will be the first couple days of the 
> show. I've heard a couple folks say that it takes a couple days for 
> everyone to get the rooms up and running. I was only there a few days in 
> the middle of last year's show, but had a great time, and brought home 
> some nice pieces.
> This year, I had been planning on arriving Saturday the 30th, to get an 
> early start on my shopping, but I just realized I have concert tickets for 
> Sunday the 31st. I'm not sure weather to show up in Tucson Monday, or blow 
> off the concert. Any thoughts? Thank you in advance.
> Linton
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 




From nakhladog at comcast.net  Mon Dec 28 20:24:08 2009
From: nakhladog at comcast.net (Rob Wesel)
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 17:24:08 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] UPDATE RE:  Whetstone Mountains Monograph
References: <965722.59450.qm@web46413.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><7C640E28081AEE4B952F008D1E913F17026519DC@0461-its-exmb04.us.saic.com>
	<37AE110F1CF1494C884A0CC3AAC7441F@meteorroom>
Message-ID: <92D1DFECE2E64877AE34EDC091BAE846@windows9bb74fe>

Chiming in late but I must join in offering the highest praise for this 
monograph. Limited or standard edition makes no matter in its lightning fast 
readability.

An excellent work Dave.

Rob Wesel
www.nakhladogmeteorites.com
www.facebook.com/nakhladog
------------------
We are the music makers...
and we are the dreamers of the dreams.
Willy Wonka, 1971


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dave Gheesling" <dave at fallingrocks.com>
To: "'Matson, Robert D.'" <ROBERT.D.MATSON at saic.com>; "'Greg Catterton'" 
<star_wars_collector at yahoo.com>; <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 5:06 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] UPDATE RE: Whetstone Mountains Monograph


> Rob, Greg & All,
>
> Rob, your comments below re: the Limited Edition Whetstone Mountains
> meteorite monograph being a "value for the small price" were much
> appreciated, as that was most definitely the intent of the offering.
> There's no telling where the one-time eBay listing I posted last week will
> end, but from the looks of it this notion of value seems to be on target 
> as
> Jack and I had hoped:
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180448321242
>
> Thanks again to all of you who have purchased copies, particularly to 
> those
> who did so sight-unseen when the monograph was first introduced last 
> month!
>
> All the best, and Happy New Year!
>
> Dave
> www.fallingrocks.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Matson,
> Robert D.
> Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 7:01 PM
> To: Greg Catterton; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Whetstone Mountains Monograph
>
> Hi All,
>
> I wholeheartedly concur with Greg -- I received my Whetstone Mountains
> monograph today from Dave, and it is a top-notch job. Excellent
> photo-documentation of the finds, and a terrific value for the small price
> Dave was asking.
> Congrats to all
> involved in this story of Arizona's latest fall, and in particular to Jack
> Schrader for the many weeks of legwork and hot-temperature field work in 
> the
> (continuing)
> recovery of this fall.
>
> Best wishes,
> Rob
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Greg
> Catterton
> Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 3:47 PM
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Whetstone Mountains Monograph
>
> I just received my autographed copy of Whetstone Mountains monograph.
>
> I have to say an excellent job was done on this, and I am super pleased to
> have one.
> The documentation is an incredible read that I will certainly take time to
> read more then once.
> The fragment is got even had a nice spot of fusion crust on it!
>
> If you ordered one and have not got it yet, just wait!!!
> Thats all Im gonna say. I dont want to spoil it for those that have not 
> seen
> it in person.
>
> Great job to all involved in this.
>
> Greg C.
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From dave at fallingrocks.com  Mon Dec 28 20:53:18 2009
From: dave at fallingrocks.com (Dave Gheesling)
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 20:53:18 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] UPDATE RE:  Whetstone Mountains Monograph
In-Reply-To: <92D1DFECE2E64877AE34EDC091BAE846@windows9bb74fe>
References: <965722.59450.qm@web46413.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><7C640E28081AEE4B952F008D1E913F17026519DC@0461-its-exmb04.us.saic.com>
	<37AE110F1CF1494C884A0CC3AAC7441F@meteorroom>
	<92D1DFECE2E64877AE34EDC091BAE846@windows9bb74fe>
Message-ID: <9F88E74B6B7346AF996C762BA91B8ED6@meteorroom>

Thanks Rob...very kind words, and much appreciated!
Happy New Year,
Dave
www.fallingrocks.com 

-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Wesel [mailto:nakhladog at comcast.net] 
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 8:24 PM
To: dave at fallingrocks.com; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] UPDATE RE: Whetstone Mountains Monograph

Chiming in late but I must join in offering the highest praise for this
monograph. Limited or standard edition makes no matter in its lightning fast
readability.

An excellent work Dave.

Rob Wesel
www.nakhladogmeteorites.com
www.facebook.com/nakhladog
------------------
We are the music makers...
and we are the dreamers of the dreams.
Willy Wonka, 1971


----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Gheesling" <dave at fallingrocks.com>
To: "'Matson, Robert D.'" <ROBERT.D.MATSON at saic.com>; "'Greg Catterton'" 
<star_wars_collector at yahoo.com>; <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 5:06 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] UPDATE RE: Whetstone Mountains Monograph


> Rob, Greg & All,
>
> Rob, your comments below re: the Limited Edition Whetstone Mountains
> meteorite monograph being a "value for the small price" were much
> appreciated, as that was most definitely the intent of the offering.
> There's no telling where the one-time eBay listing I posted last week will
> end, but from the looks of it this notion of value seems to be on target 
> as
> Jack and I had hoped:
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180448321242
>
> Thanks again to all of you who have purchased copies, particularly to 
> those
> who did so sight-unseen when the monograph was first introduced last 
> month!
>
> All the best, and Happy New Year!
>
> Dave
> www.fallingrocks.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Matson,
> Robert D.
> Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 7:01 PM
> To: Greg Catterton; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Whetstone Mountains Monograph
>
> Hi All,
>
> I wholeheartedly concur with Greg -- I received my Whetstone Mountains
> monograph today from Dave, and it is a top-notch job. Excellent
> photo-documentation of the finds, and a terrific value for the small price
> Dave was asking.
> Congrats to all
> involved in this story of Arizona's latest fall, and in particular to Jack
> Schrader for the many weeks of legwork and hot-temperature field work in 
> the
> (continuing)
> recovery of this fall.
>
> Best wishes,
> Rob
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Greg
> Catterton
> Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 3:47 PM
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Whetstone Mountains Monograph
>
> I just received my autographed copy of Whetstone Mountains monograph.
>
> I have to say an excellent job was done on this, and I am super pleased to
> have one.
> The documentation is an incredible read that I will certainly take time to
> read more then once.
> The fragment is got even had a nice spot of fusion crust on it!
>
> If you ordered one and have not got it yet, just wait!!!
> Thats all Im gonna say. I dont want to spoil it for those that have not 
> seen
> it in person.
>
> Great job to all involved in this.
>
> Greg C.
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 




From lintonius at earthlink.net  Mon Dec 28 21:13:15 2009
From: lintonius at earthlink.net (Linton Rohr)
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 18:13:15 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Tucson - activity first weekend
References: <7b03.26513f87.38680c83@aol.com>
	<84411522BF2E4E1E853E1CA04EA15EDF@D190TH71>
	<76331F199D2D41BA89807071AA3ECCD4@Gregor>
Message-ID: <44D1F32BB8BB42E294AAB4798855807E@D190TH71>

"A Mineral Show is the only true "Rock Concert"! ;-) "

Hehe. Good one, Greg.
Actually, it's Beethoven on the menu, served up by the L.A. Philharmonic.
I may be able to trade my tickets for the Friday night show.
Then I could have my (Gold Basin) cake and eat it too!
Linton

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Greg Hupe" <gmhupe at htn.net>
To: "Linton Rohr" <lintonius at earthlink.net>; <>
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 5:16 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Tucson - activity first weekend


> Ahoy Linton!
>
> you wrote:
> "This year, I had been planning on arriving Saturday the 30th, to get an
> early start on my shopping, but I just realized I have concert tickets for
> Sunday the 31st. I'm not sure weather to show up in Tucson Monday, or blow
> off the concert. "
>
> A Mineral Show is the only true "Rock Concert"! ;-)
>
> Best regards,
> Greg
>
> ====================
> Greg Hupe
> The Hupe Collection
> NaturesVault (eBay)
> gmhupe at htn.net
> www.LunarRock.com
> IMCA 3163
> ====================
> Click here for my current eBay auctions: 
> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Linton Rohr" <lintonius at earthlink.net>
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 7:28 PM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Tucson - activity first weekend
>
>
>> Ahoy there listees.
>> I'm wondering how much activity there will be the first couple days of 
>> the show. I've heard a couple folks say that it takes a couple days for 
>> everyone to get the rooms up and running. I was only there a few days in 
>> the middle of last year's show, but had a great time, and brought home 
>> some nice pieces.
>> This year, I had been planning on arriving Saturday the 30th, to get an 
>> early start on my shopping, but I just realized I have concert tickets 
>> for Sunday the 31st. I'm not sure weather to show up in Tucson Monday, or 
>> blow off the concert. Any thoughts? Thank you in advance.
>> Linton
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>
>
> 



From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Mon Dec 28 21:26:52 2009
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 18:26:52 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: A few collection pieces
In-Reply-To: <4B36B1C9.3030806@meteoritesusa.com>
References: <4B3643BD.5030102@usgs.gov>	<e51421550912261130u410aff4bg27a64000c6c23bdc@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B36B1C9.3030806@meteoritesusa.com>
Message-ID: <4B3968EC.9050108@meteoritesusa.com>

Hi List,

I had some questions from list members and I updated A LOT of the photos 
on the pieces I have available. I also added a few items to the list. 
It's much easier to just add photos to one page rather than email them 
100 times. Here they are: http://meteoritesusa.com/special.htm

Enjoy...

Regards,
Eric



On 12/26/2009 5:00 PM, Meteorites USA wrote:
> Hi List,
>
> A few pieces available today.
>
> 1017g Sculpted Canyon Diablo = $750
> 6.9g West, TX (Ash Creek) = $276 (Found by me February 25th 2009 - 10 
> days after the fall. Will supply documentation and in-situ photos)
> ----------------------------------------
> Take both pieces = $1000
> Free Shipping Worldwide
>
> Also available:
> 63.8g Gold Basin - $47
> 47.9g Gold Basin - $35
> 54.0g Canyon Diablo (natural) - $27
> 31.9g Brenham Pallasite (part slice: Polished one side) - $99
> 5.4g Brenham Pallasite (two small polished frags) - $16
>
> Email off-list for photos...
>
> Regards,
> Eric
> 760-522-2152
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


From impactika at aol.com  Mon Dec 28 21:30:13 2009
From: impactika at aol.com (impactika at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 21:30:13 EST
Subject: [meteorite-list] Tucson - activity first weekend
Message-ID: <e080.33b5d217.386ac3b5@aol.com>



I approve of Beethoven!!
 
Don't worry Linton, and don't keep Beethoven waiting.
 
By coming to the Tucson show during the first weekend, you will miss on 
some of the entertainment, like the IMCA dinner, the Birthday Bash, and the 
Auction, but you will certainly have a better choice of meteorites.
 
Unless the weather really stops me (and this year it could happen!) I am 
planning on reaching Tucson Thursday evening, so Geoff and I will have all day 
Friday to set up the room. And Saturday morning the room should be ready 
for visitors, although we always joke that we don't get everything set up just 
right until the very last day of the Show.
So come on over Linton, we will be looking for you.
 
Anne M. Black
_http://www.impactika.com/_ (http://www.impactika.com/) 
_IMPACTIKA at aol.com_ (mailto:IMPACTIKA at aol.com) 
Vice-President, I.M.C.A. Inc.
_http://www.imca.cc/_ (http://www.imca.cc/) 
 
 
In a message dated 12/28/2009 7:13:27 PM Mountain Standard Time, 
lintonius at earthlink.net writes:
"A Mineral Show is the only true "Rock Concert"! ;-) "

Hehe. Good one, Greg.
Actually, it's Beethoven on the menu, served up by the L.A. Philharmonic.
I may be able to trade my tickets for the Friday night show.
Then I could have my (Gold Basin) cake and eat it too!
Linton

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Greg Hupe" <gmhupe at htn.net>
To: "Linton Rohr" <lintonius at earthlink.net>; <>
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 5:16 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Tucson - activity first weekend


> Ahoy Linton!
>
> you wrote:
> "This year, I had been planning on arriving Saturday the 30th, to get an
> early start on my shopping, but I just realized I have concert tickets for
> Sunday the 31st. I'm not sure weather to show up in Tucson Monday, or blow
> off the concert. "
>
> A Mineral Show is the only true "Rock Concert"! ;-)
>
> Best regards,
> Greg
>
> ====================
> Greg Hupe
> The Hupe Collection
> NaturesVault (eBay)
> gmhupe at htn.net
> www.LunarRock.com
> IMCA 3163
> ====================


From lintonius at earthlink.net  Mon Dec 28 21:41:45 2009
From: lintonius at earthlink.net (Linton Rohr)
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 18:41:45 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Tucson - activity first weekend
References: <e080.33b5d217.386ac3b5@aol.com>
Message-ID: <1850AB6C16E641678C9269003E93B3A2@D190TH71>

Thanks Anne!
I should clarify though... I will be staying through the following weekend, 
either way. I wouldn't even consider missing the events you mentioned, but I 
imagine my first stop when I hit town will be Room 230.  ;^)  Again.
Linton

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <impactika at aol.com>
To: <lintonius at earthlink.net>; <gmhupe at htn.net>; 
<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Cc: <geoking at notkin.net>
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 6:30 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Tucson - activity first weekend


>
>
> I approve of Beethoven!!
>
> Don't worry Linton, and don't keep Beethoven waiting.
>
> By coming to the Tucson show during the first weekend, you will miss on
> some of the entertainment, like the IMCA dinner, the Birthday Bash, and 
> the
> Auction, but you will certainly have a better choice of meteorites.
>
> Unless the weather really stops me (and this year it could happen!) I am
> planning on reaching Tucson Thursday evening, so Geoff and I will have all 
> day
> Friday to set up the room. And Saturday morning the room should be ready
> for visitors, although we always joke that we don't get everything set up 
> just
> right until the very last day of the Show.
> So come on over Linton, we will be looking for you.
>
> Anne M. Black
> _http://www.impactika.com/_ (http://www.impactika.com/)
> _IMPACTIKA at aol.com_ (mailto:IMPACTIKA at aol.com)
> Vice-President, I.M.C.A. Inc.
> _http://www.imca.cc/_ (http://www.imca.cc/)
>
>
> In a message dated 12/28/2009 7:13:27 PM Mountain Standard Time,
> lintonius at earthlink.net writes:
> "A Mineral Show is the only true "Rock Concert"! ;-) "
>
> Hehe. Good one, Greg.
> Actually, it's Beethoven on the menu, served up by the L.A. Philharmonic.
> I may be able to trade my tickets for the Friday night show.
> Then I could have my (Gold Basin) cake and eat it too!
> Linton
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Greg Hupe" <gmhupe at htn.net>
> To: "Linton Rohr" <lintonius at earthlink.net>; <>
> Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 5:16 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Tucson - activity first weekend
>
>
>> Ahoy Linton!
>>
>> you wrote:
>> "This year, I had been planning on arriving Saturday the 30th, to get an
>> early start on my shopping, but I just realized I have concert tickets 
>> for
>> Sunday the 31st. I'm not sure weather to show up in Tucson Monday, or 
>> blow
>> off the concert. "
>>
>> A Mineral Show is the only true "Rock Concert"! ;-)
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Greg
>>
>> ====================
>> Greg Hupe
>> The Hupe Collection
>> NaturesVault (eBay)
>> gmhupe at htn.net
>> www.LunarRock.com
>> IMCA 3163
>> ====================
> 



From meteoritekid at gmail.com  Tue Dec 29 00:01:16 2009
From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas)
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 21:01:16 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Benson/Whetstone Request
Message-ID: <93aaac890912282101h78594eccsfb3dbe32b90fdc5f@mail.gmail.com>

Hello All,
I've a week off and was wondering if any information regarding the
Benson/Whetstone mountains fall has been deemed releasable yet.
Any information regarding the location of the strewnfield, would be
appreciated...
Thanks,
Jason


From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net  Tue Dec 29 00:55:56 2009
From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb)
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 23:55:56 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Deaths? Interesting old article-read
References: <20091228131853.zxoekzx8w0w0cwcg@webmail.mhmeteorites.com>
Message-ID: <CC79A9F479B04D6587639724C10CA630@ATARIENGINE2>

Hi, Matt, List,

On September 14, 1511, in Cremona in Lombardy,
Italy, a monk, several birds, and a sheep were killed
by meteorites.

Sometime between 1647 and 1654, two sailors on a
ship en route from Japan to Sicily, while in the Indian
Ocean, were killed by meteorites.

Sometime between 1633 and 1664, a monk in Milan
was killed by a meteorite which severed his femoral
artery, causing him to bleed to death.

Chinese records of lethal impact events include the
death of 10 victims from a meteorite fall in 616 AD, an
"iron rain" in the O-chia district in the 14th century
that killed people and animals, several soldiers injured
by the fall of a "large star" in Ho-t'ao in 1369, and many
others. The most startling is a report of an event in early
1490 in Ch'ing-yang, Shansi, in which many people
were killed when stones "fell like rain." Of the three
known surviving reports of this event, one says that
"over 10,000 people" were killed, and one says that
"several tens of thousands" were killed.

There is a discussion of these and many more such
incidents in John S. Lewis, "Rain of Iron and Ice," 1996.

One could collect pages and pages of early accounts of
meteorite falls and pages more of events that could well
be meteoritic although those that wrote the accounts
did not know of the idea that stones could fall from the
sky. You could fill a book... and people have.

A catalogue of meteorites is not a book of reported falls;
it is a book of collected and curated falls. The oldest
curated stone is NOGATA, which fell May 19, 861 AD.
It hit a shrine and has been kept there ever since. The
meteorite that hit a house in NARA (then the capital
city of Japan) in 764 AD doesn't count because nobody
has it safely curated.

> ...can they be substantiated?

No more or less than the rest of history. They tell me
Julius Caesar was assassinated. That's the story. Most
agree that it happened. No one wrote to deny it. It's the
story I always heard, so I believe it, like I do all the rest
of history. But I wasn't there, I haven't checked the DNA
on the dagger, I don't know where he was buried, I haven't
read the autopsy report. I'm more than a carpet fiber away
from proving the case...

Three Chinese historical chronicles recount the huge
meteorite fall and thousands of deaths in Ch'ing-yang,
Shansi, in late February or early March of 1490. It's as
much history as Caesar's assassination is, no more, no
less. It's as "substantiated" as any history. There were
no Ming Dynasty tabloid news stories. History-writing
was politically sensitive and historians were occasionally
executed for falsity, particularly about "heavenly" events.


Sterling K. Webb
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <mail at mhmeteorites.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 3:18 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Deaths? Interesting old article-read


>A friend sent this link to me in regard to the Bear Creek meteorite.
> <http://www.coloradohistoricnewspapers.org/Repository/ml.asp?Ref=Uk1ELzE4NjYvMDUvMTQjQXIwMDIwMA==&Mode=Gif&Locale=english-skin-custom>
>
> Near the end of the text it details the deaths of 3 monks and 2 
> Swedish sailors by meteorite impact!
> Has anyone heard of this?  The passage reads:
>
>  "A few instances are on record of buildings being struck and set on 
> fire and persons struck dead by the fall of aerolites.  These Three 
> monks were killed, one on the 4th September 1611, at Crema (?), 
> another at Milan, in 1650, and a third in the same place in 1660.  In 
> 1674 two Swedish sailors on board ship were killed by the fall of 
> one."
>
> Having never heard of this I searched the Catalog of Meteorites and 
> came up blank.  Has anyone heard of these falls and can they be 
> substantiated?
>
> Matt Morgan
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com  Tue Dec 29 02:12:36 2009
From: sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com (Steve Dunklee)
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 23:12:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Lindfors avalanche!
In-Reply-To: <200912281915.nBSJF0W20257@levee.wustl.edu>
Message-ID: <286783.5721.qm@web33206.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

why not forward all his messages back to him but do it twice? if you really want to make a point put his address in a super spammer site that will send him 10k emails a day. Actually it would be better to use your mail settings to block his ip address so if they change the  address it still goes into your spam box. the ip address should be attached to the documents or photos sent. yahoo stores them in a file called ypager. I'm not sure about other mail  servers. I could tell you more if i could dissect one of the emails, but I am not interested in becoming one of the next victims.
Have a spam free day!
Steve

--- On Mon, 12/28/09, Randy Korotev <korotev at wustl.edu> wrote:

> From: Randy Korotev <korotev at wustl.edu>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Lindfors avalanche!
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Monday, December 28, 2009, 1:15 PM
> I've asked him to stop, too, but he
> hasn't done it.? This calendar year I've received a
> minimum of 3801 e-mails from him (~11/day) with 84,805 JPG
> attachments.? I say "minimum" because our IT guy just
> trashes them if I don't clean up my mail box every few
> days.? I derive some bizarre pleasure from counting
> them.
> 
> 
> At 11:11 26-12-09 Saturday, you wrote:
> > Omg, I just got 20 Lindfors-o-grams all at once, with
> nearly 50 Mb of attached images. Has anybody figured out how
> to stop this spammer?
> > 
> > Jeff
> 
> Randy Korotev 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      


From lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu  Tue Dec 29 06:02:42 2009
From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu (lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu)
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 04:02:42 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Deaths? Interesting old article-read
In-Reply-To: <CC79A9F479B04D6587639724C10CA630@ATARIENGINE2>
References: <20091228131853.zxoekzx8w0w0cwcg@webmail.mhmeteorites.com>
	<CC79A9F479B04D6587639724C10CA630@ATARIENGINE2>
Message-ID: <cabef996ec12f64b91e467863452451c.squirrel@webmail.lpl.arizona.edu>

Hi Sterling:

The events quoted by you from John Lewis' book are open to interpretation.
Similar interpretations give us:

Ezekiel saw a flying saucer

And, for those who like interpretations of the Bible and other writings:

Joshua made the Earth stand still: This was due to the fact that Venus was
a comet that was spun off(?) from Jupiter (do not remember if this was the
source of the Great Red Spot) and flew by the Earth twice before becoming
a new planet. My memory is a little hazy on this, but I think this is also
the source of our oil. [I. Velikovsky] I think that it has been claimed
that this was confirmed when we found out that Venus was hot, having been
predicted by Velikovsky.

Larry

PS Sterling: Are you going to make me go back a reread the book to give
you more specific references?

> Hi, Matt, List,
>
> On September 14, 1511, in Cremona in Lombardy,
> Italy, a monk, several birds, and a sheep were killed
> by meteorites.
>
> Sometime between 1647 and 1654, two sailors on a
> ship en route from Japan to Sicily, while in the Indian
> Ocean, were killed by meteorites.
>
> Sometime between 1633 and 1664, a monk in Milan
> was killed by a meteorite which severed his femoral
> artery, causing him to bleed to death.
>
> Chinese records of lethal impact events include the
> death of 10 victims from a meteorite fall in 616 AD, an
> "iron rain" in the O-chia district in the 14th century
> that killed people and animals, several soldiers injured
> by the fall of a "large star" in Ho-t'ao in 1369, and many
> others. The most startling is a report of an event in early
> 1490 in Ch'ing-yang, Shansi, in which many people
> were killed when stones "fell like rain." Of the three
> known surviving reports of this event, one says that
> "over 10,000 people" were killed, and one says that
> "several tens of thousands" were killed.
>
> There is a discussion of these and many more such
> incidents in John S. Lewis, "Rain of Iron and Ice," 1996.
>
> One could collect pages and pages of early accounts of
> meteorite falls and pages more of events that could well
> be meteoritic although those that wrote the accounts
> did not know of the idea that stones could fall from the
> sky. You could fill a book... and people have.
>
> A catalogue of meteorites is not a book of reported falls;
> it is a book of collected and curated falls. The oldest
> curated stone is NOGATA, which fell May 19, 861 AD.
> It hit a shrine and has been kept there ever since. The
> meteorite that hit a house in NARA (then the capital
> city of Japan) in 764 AD doesn't count because nobody
> has it safely curated.
>
>> ...can they be substantiated?
>
> No more or less than the rest of history. They tell me
> Julius Caesar was assassinated. That's the story. Most
> agree that it happened. No one wrote to deny it. It's the
> story I always heard, so I believe it, like I do all the rest
> of history. But I wasn't there, I haven't checked the DNA
> on the dagger, I don't know where he was buried, I haven't
> read the autopsy report. I'm more than a carpet fiber away
> from proving the case...
>
> Three Chinese historical chronicles recount the huge
> meteorite fall and thousands of deaths in Ch'ing-yang,
> Shansi, in late February or early March of 1490. It's as
> much history as Caesar's assassination is, no more, no
> less. It's as "substantiated" as any history. There were
> no Ming Dynasty tabloid news stories. History-writing
> was politically sensitive and historians were occasionally
> executed for falsity, particularly about "heavenly" events.
>
>
> Sterling K. Webb
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <mail at mhmeteorites.com>
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 3:18 PM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Deaths? Interesting old article-read
>
>
>>A friend sent this link to me in regard to the Bear Creek meteorite.
>> <http://www.coloradohistoricnewspapers.org/Repository/ml.asp?Ref=Uk1ELzE4NjYvMDUvMTQjQXIwMDIwMA==&Mode=Gif&Locale=english-skin-custom>
>>
>> Near the end of the text it details the deaths of 3 monks and 2
>> Swedish sailors by meteorite impact!
>> Has anyone heard of this?  The passage reads:
>>
>>  "A few instances are on record of buildings being struck and set on
>> fire and persons struck dead by the fall of aerolites.  These Three
>> monks were killed, one on the 4th September 1611, at Crema (?),
>> another at Milan, in 1650, and a third in the same place in 1660.  In
>> 1674 two Swedish sailors on board ship were killed by the fall of
>> one."
>>
>> Having never heard of this I searched the Catalog of Meteorites and
>> came up blank.  Has anyone heard of these falls and can they be
>> substantiated?
>>
>> Matt Morgan
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>




From larrytwinkmonrad at comcast.net  Tue Dec 29 08:05:58 2009
From: larrytwinkmonrad at comcast.net (Larry & Twink Monrad)
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 06:05:58 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Jim Kriegh's birthday
Message-ID: <3543B526DFC84A14AF90F5338E105C69@DFZN8X81>

Bernd asked me to post this to the list:

Hello List,

Today would have been Jim's eightieth birthday. All the very best
to you, Jim, up there on your little asteroid in the heavens above!

Bernd


From raremeteorites at yahoo.com  Tue Dec 29 12:35:53 2009
From: raremeteorites at yahoo.com (Adam Hupe)
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 09:35:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Last Auctions Of The Year Ending
Message-ID: <305742.81696.qm@web30705.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Dear List Members,
 
Just a quick reminder that my last auctions of the year will be ending this 
afternoon.  You will find a lot of bargains.  Martian material in particular, has for the most part, 
been selling below my costs and cannot be replaced once gone. Everybody knows 
that the Sahara has only been producing a fraction of the meteorites that were 
once coming out. It is just a matter of time before prices escalate 
spectacularly.  I predict within 12 months collectors will be kicking themselves 
for not taking advantage of the lowest prices in a decade.
 
All Auctions Can Be Found At This link:
http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/raremeteorites!_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZQQ_mdoZ

Thank 
you for looking and if you are bidding, the best of luck,
 
Adam


From epgrondine at yahoo.com  Tue Dec 29 12:39:32 2009
From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine)
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 09:39:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite deaths
Message-ID: <252546.32638.qm@web36904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi Paul - 

Has anyone ever thought of going to those fall sites in China and hunting them? Or doing archeology in the case of the larger falls?

E.P. Grondine
Man and Impact in the Americas


      


From oxytropidoceras at cox.net  Tue Dec 29 12:38:10 2009
From: oxytropidoceras at cox.net (Paul Heinrich)
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 11:38:10 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Deaths? Interesting old article-read
Message-ID: <4B3A3E82.9090708@cox.net>

One of the instances of a reported meteorite fall that
resulted in human deaths that Sterling K. Webb quoted:

"The most startling is a report of an event in early
1490 in Ch'ing-yang, Shansi, in which many people
were killed when stones "fell like rain." Of the three
known surviving reports of this event, one says that
"over 10,000 people" were killed, and one says that
"several tens of thousands" were killed."

Does anyone know where Ch'ing-yang, Shansi is in China?

I ask this question because, unlike many of the other
alleged meteorite falls reported to have caused either
injury or death to humans, this fall, as reported, would
have been extensive enough to have left behind some
sort of "findable" physical evidence in the form of
actual meteorites. Applying the basic principles of
geomorphology, Quaternary geology, and site formation
processes as developed by archaeologists, a well-
trained Quaternary geologist, archaeological geologist,
or geomorphologists should be able to locate the
landforms and colluvial or fluvial deposits of the right
age in which any of these numerous meteorites would
have been concentrated and either them or their
weathered remains possibly preserved

For example, on landforms that predate 1490, the
meteorites would have been buried by bioturbation.
As the local soils were churned by farming and
soil fauna, any meteorites that would have fallen on
the land surface would have eventually sunk to the
base of the soil's biomantle. As a result, they would
be concentrated as a layer at the base of bioturbation
called a "carpedolith".  In gullies and other exposures,
they would occur as a "stone line" at the base of the
biomantle. Also, using what is known about the
archaeology and geomorphology of the area, a
person could locate the buried land surfaces or
deposits of the right age and origin that should contain
these meteorites, if they indeed exist.

This is the sort of methodology I discuss in relationship
to the alleged tektites found in Rapides Parish, Louisiana  
in "Reevaluation of Tektites Reported from. Rapides
Parish, Louisiana" at either:

http://www.lgs.lsu.edu/deploy/uploads/Summer_09_LGS_Newsletter.pdf or

http://www.scribd.com/doc/18698759/Alleged-Tektites-From-Rapides-Parish-Louisiana

A hypothetical stone line can be seen in "Animation on
Dynamic Denudation/Biomantle Evolution" at;

https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/jdomier/www/temp/biomantle.swf

and discussed in:

Johnson, D. L., 1989, Subsurface Stone Lines, Stone Zones,
Artifact-Manuport Layers, and Biomantles Produced by
Bioturbation via Pocket Gophers (Thomomys Bottae).
American Antiquity. vol. 54, no. 2, pp. 370-389

http://www.jstor.org/pss/281712  

and Johnson, D. L., 1990, Biomantle Evolution and the
Redistribution of Earth Materials and Artifacts. Soil
Science. vol. 149, no. 2, pp. 84-102.

http://journals.lww.com/soilsci/Abstract/1990/02000/Biomantle_Evolution_and_the_Redistribution_of.4.aspx

Meteorites will behave very much like the artifacts discussed
in the above paper.

Yours,

Paul H.


From ohtsuka at jb3.so-net.ne.jp  Tue Dec 29 11:07:32 2009
From: ohtsuka at jb3.so-net.ne.jp (Katsu OHTSUKA)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 01:07:32 +0900
Subject: [meteorite-list] Solar-Radiation Heating Effects on 3200 Phaethon
Message-ID: <AAD9F82ADA5040E5A8A709660482F019@KATSU>

Hello list,

My paper entitled "Solar-Radiation Heating Effects on 3200 Phaethon"
was finally published in the latest issue of PASJ, as follows,


http://pasj.asj.or.jp/v61/n6/610621/610621.pdf,

of which PDF file is freely downloadable now. 

Katsu OHTSUKA



From oxytropidoceras at cox.net  Tue Dec 29 13:25:31 2009
From: oxytropidoceras at cox.net (Paul Heinrich)
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 12:25:31 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite deaths
Message-ID: <4B3A499B.8090406@cox.net>

Grondine asked:

"Has anyone ever thought of going to those fall sites
in China and hunting them? Or doing archeology in
the case of the larger falls?"

I have not heard of anyone attempting to find evidence
of the larger falls. However, that does not mean much
because usually the results of such research when it is
negative (nobody finds anything) is typically not published
simply because either the authors or editors do not
consider such negative results as being significance
enough to publish.

It is a very good question for which I do not have an answer.

Yours,

Paul H.



From lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu  Tue Dec 29 13:33:15 2009
From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu (lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu)
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 11:33:15 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Solar-Radiation Heating Effects on 3200
 Phaethon
In-Reply-To: <AAD9F82ADA5040E5A8A709660482F019@KATSU>
References: <AAD9F82ADA5040E5A8A709660482F019@KATSU>
Message-ID: <b485927207c7990786f2974fec099b7c.squirrel@webmail.lpl.arizona.edu>

Dear Katsu:

Thanks for sending out this article.

Larry Lebofsky

> Hello list,
>
> My paper entitled "Solar-Radiation Heating Effects on 3200 Phaethon"
> was finally published in the latest issue of PASJ, as follows,
>
>
> http://pasj.asj.or.jp/v61/n6/610621/610621.pdf,
>
> of which PDF file is freely downloadable now.
>
> Katsu OHTSUKA
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>




From lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu  Tue Dec 29 13:36:56 2009
From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu (lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu)
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 11:36:56 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite deaths
In-Reply-To: <4B3A499B.8090406@cox.net>
References: <4B3A499B.8090406@cox.net>
Message-ID: <66b413f46c25b815160d2af8f6f698a5.squirrel@webmail.lpl.arizona.edu>

Paul:

For all of his "research" on these falls, Lewis did not make any effort to
try to validate the events beyond his interpretation of the writings. It
has been a long time since I read the book or talked to him about it.

Larry

> Grondine asked:
>
> "Has anyone ever thought of going to those fall sites
> in China and hunting them? Or doing archeology in
> the case of the larger falls?"
>
> I have not heard of anyone attempting to find evidence
> of the larger falls. However, that does not mean much
> because usually the results of such research when it is
> negative (nobody finds anything) is typically not published
> simply because either the authors or editors do not
> consider such negative results as being significance
> enough to publish.
>
> It is a very good question for which I do not have an answer.
>
> Yours,
>
> Paul H.
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>




From grf2 at comcast.net  Tue Dec 29 14:43:26 2009
From: grf2 at comcast.net (Jerry Flaherty)
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 14:43:26 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Solar-Radiation Heating Effects on 3200
	Phaethon
References: <AAD9F82ADA5040E5A8A709660482F019@KATSU>
Message-ID: <1CF06FBF343944AFA0D74F1FD89D6BF4@ASUS>

Katsu,
Thank you for the paper. The Abstract alone explains how its possible for 
different parts of an asteroid to undergo substantially different 
metamorphosis,  providing substantially different meteoroids/meteorites and 
the variety in finds, in some meteorites.
Jerry Flaherty

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Katsu OHTSUKA" <ohtsuka at jb3.so-net.ne.jp>
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 11:07 AM
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Subject: [meteorite-list] Solar-Radiation Heating Effects on 3200 Phaethon

> Hello list,
>
> My paper entitled "Solar-Radiation Heating Effects on 3200 Phaethon"
> was finally published in the latest issue of PASJ, as follows,
>
>
> http://pasj.asj.or.jp/v61/n6/610621/610621.pdf,
>
> of which PDF file is freely downloadable now.
> Katsu OHTSUKA
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From sbdeboer at wightman.ca  Tue Dec 29 15:19:52 2009
From: sbdeboer at wightman.ca (Simon)
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 15:19:52 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Grimsby Meteorite article
Message-ID: <sbdeboer$216.110.226.24$.4b3a6226.f0adc.4933.0@green.wightman.ca>


Just read this article in the Hamilton Spectator re Grimsby meteorite 


http://www.thespec.com/News/Local/article/696644





From nwa482 at comcast.net  Tue Dec 29 15:54:26 2009
From: nwa482 at comcast.net (Jim Strope)
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 20:54:26 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [meteorite-list] The Moon on Everest.
In-Reply-To: <1518397089.4874751262120017688.JavaMail.root@sz0057a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <941081135.4875131262120066659.JavaMail.root@sz0057a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>

On May 20. 2009 Astronaut Scott Parazynski summited Mt Everest.  NASA allowed him to carry a specimen of the moon brought back on Apollo 11 to the top of the world.  The Discovery channel has started airing the third season of Everest, Beyond the Limit and Scotts story will air again on the Discovery Channel Dec 30 at 8pm Eastern US time.  I have seen the segment and it is certainly worth watching.

Photo of Scott holding the Apollo 11 sample on Everest:

http://blogs.discovery.com/.a/6a00d8341bf67c53ef01156fba58c9970c-pi


Scott's Blog written last Spring:

http://onorbit.com/node/1047


Everest, Beyond the Limit on the Discovery Channel website:

http://dsc.discovery.com/convergence/everestbeyond/everestbeyond.html


Jim Strope
421 Fourth Street
Glen Dale, WV  26038

http://www.catchafallingstar.com/

On eBay:
http://members.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPage&userid=catchafallingstar.com


From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Tue Dec 29 16:12:29 2009
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 13:12:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA Chooses Three Finalists for Future Space
	Science Mission to Venus, an Asteroid or the Moon
Message-ID: <200912292112.nBTLCTPA001759@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>



Dec. 29, 2009

Dwayne Brown 
Headquarters, Washington 
202-358-1726 
dwayne.c.brown at nasa.gov 

RELEASE: 09-296

NASA CHOOSES THREE FINALISTS FOR FUTURE SPACE SCIENCE MISSION TO VENUS, 
AN ASTEROID OR THE MOON

WASHINGTON -- NASA has selected three proposals as candidates for the 
agency's next space venture to another celestial body in our solar 
system. The final project selected in mid-2011 may provide a better 
understanding of Earth's formation or perhaps the origin of life on 
our planet. 

The proposed missions would probe the atmosphere and crust of Venus; 
return a piece of a near-Earth asteroid for analysis; or drop a 
robotic lander into a basin at the moon's south pole to return lunar 
rocks back to Earth for study. 

NASA will select one proposal for full development after detailed 
mission concept studies are completed and reviewed. The studies begin 
during 2010, and the selected mission must be ready for launch no 
later than Dec. 30, 2018. Mission cost, excluding the launch vehicle, 
is limited to $650 million. 

"These are projects that inspire and excite young scientists, 
engineers and the public," said Ed Weiler, associate administrator 
for the Science Mission Directorate at NASA Headquarters in 
Washington. "These three proposals provide the best science value 
among eight submitted to NASA this year." 

Each proposal team initially will receive approximately $3.3 million 
in 2010 to conduct a 12-month mission concept study that focuses on 
implementation feasibility, cost, management and technical plans. 
Studies also will include plans for educational outreach and small 
business opportunities. 

The selected proposals are: 


The Surface and Atmosphere Geochemical Explorer, or SAGE, mission to 
Venus would release a probe to descend through the planet's 
atmosphere. During descent, instruments would conduct extensive 
measurements of the atmosphere's composition and obtain 
meteorological data. The probe then would land on the surface of 
Venus, where its abrading tool would expose both a weathered and a 
pristine surface area to measure its composition and mineralogy. 
Scientists hope to understand the origin of Venus and why it is so 
different from Earth. Larry Esposito of the University of Colorado in 
Boulder, is the principal investigator. 


The Origins Spectral Interpretation Resource Identification Security 
Regolith Explorer spacecraft, called Osiris-Rex, would rendezvous and 
orbit a primitive asteroid. After extensive measurements, instruments 
would collect more than two ounces of material from the asteriod's 
surface for return to Earth. The returned samples would help 
scientists better undertand and answer long-held questions about the 
formation of our solar system and the origin of complex molecules 
necessary for life. Michael Drake, of the University of Arizona in 
Tucson, is the principal investigator. 


MoonRise: Lunar South Pole-Aitken Basin Sample Return Mission would 
place a lander in a broad basin near the moon's south pole and return 
approximately two pounds of lunar materials for study. This region of 
the lunar surface is believed to harbor rocks excavated from the 
moon's mantle. The samples would provide new insight into the early 
history of the Earth-moon system. Bradley Jolliff, of Washington 
University in St. Louis, is the principal investigator. 


The proposals were submitted to NASA on July 31, 2009, in response to 
the New Frontiers Program 2009 Announcement of Opportunity. New 
Frontiers seeks to explore the solar system with frequent, 
medium-class spacecraft missions that will conduct high-quality, 
focused scientific investigations designed to enhance understanding 
of the solar system. 

The final selection will become the third mission in the program. New 
Horizons, NASA's first New Frontiers mission, launched in 2006, will 
fly by the Pluto-Charon system in 2014 then target another Kuiper 
Belt object for study. The second mission, called Juno, is designed 
to orbit Jupiter from pole to pole for the first time, conducting an 
in-depth study of the giant planet's atmosphere and interior. It is 
slated for launch in August 2011. 

For more information about the New Frontiers Program, visit: 

http://newfrontiers.nasa.gov 
	
-end-



From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Tue Dec 29 16:16:02 2009
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 13:16:02 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Fall Or Not?
In-Reply-To: <941081135.4875131262120066659.JavaMail.root@sz0057a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>
References: <941081135.4875131262120066659.JavaMail.root@sz0057a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <4B3A7192.2070003@meteoritesusa.com>

Hi List,

I haven't really been following this but here's another report about the 
fireball back on Dec 19th over Wisbech, Cambridgeshire UK
http://www.fenlandcitizen.co.uk/news/Meteorite-falls-over-Wisbech.5943609.jp

Any other word on this fireball?

Regards,
Eric Wichman
Meteorites USA


From daistiho at hotmail.com  Tue Dec 29 16:17:01 2009
From: daistiho at hotmail.com (tracy latimer)
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 21:17:01 +0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Deaths? Interesting old article-read
In-Reply-To: <CC79A9F479B04D6587639724C10CA630@ATARIENGINE2>
References: <20091228131853.zxoekzx8w0w0cwcg@webmail.mhmeteorites.com>,
	<CC79A9F479B04D6587639724C10CA630@ATARIENGINE2>
Message-ID: <SNT120-W19DD3F98CDCF29D9505DA9CA7A0@phx.gbl>


The falls you mention seem to be concentrated around the era in the Western hemisphere loosely called 'the Dark Ages.'  While I have no reason to doubt that the people involved died, possibly even by meteorite, I find it odd that so many fatalities happened within a relatively limited time span, and they were identified as 'death by meteorite'.  It wasn't until the 17- or 1800s that scientists even believed that rocks could fall from the sky.  I'd want more proof before I wrote up that CSI report!
 
Best!
Tracy Latimer

----------------------------------------
> From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net

>
> One could collect pages and pages of early accounts of
> meteorite falls and pages more of events that could well
> be meteoritic although those that wrote the accounts
> did not know of the idea that stones could fall from the
> sky. You could fill a book... and people have. 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222984/direct/01/

From oxytropidoceras at cox.net  Tue Dec 29 16:30:36 2009
From: oxytropidoceras at cox.net (Paul Heinrich)
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 15:30:36 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Online Impact Cratering Powerpoint Presentations
Message-ID: <4B3A74FC.9040405@cox.net>

Dear Friends,

Out of curiosity, I did an Advanced Google search
for "impact cratering" while restricting the file type to
ppt (Powerpoint presentation) format. I found a
number of interesting Powerpoint presentations.

They included:

1. Impact Cratering Mechanics and Morphologies
http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/grad/classes/spring2008/Melosh_596f/Lecture3.ppt

2. Impact Cratering Dating by Nathan Marsh
http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/~shane/PTYS_395_MOON/presentations/marsh_cratering_dating.ppt 


3. Impact Cratering by Virginia Pasek
http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/~shane/PTYS_395_MOON/presentations/pasek_catering.ppt 


4. Impact Cratering Mechanics and Morphologies
http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/~shane/PTYS_411_511/lectures/PTYS_411_511_cratering_mechanics_morphologies.ppt 


5. Impact Cratering Lecture 3, Impact Cratering Lecture 3
http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/grad/classes/spring2008/Melosh_596f/Lecture3.ppt

6. Impact Craters
http://www.astro.ufl.edu/~paola/imp_cra.ppt

7. Terrestrial Geology Basics
http://planetologia.elte.hu/impact.ppt

8. MORPHOLOGY of IMPACT CRATERS Henrik Hargitai
http://planetologia.elte.hu/impact.ppt

9. Apocalypse Maybe: Unlikely Doomsday
Scenarios for the End of the Earth
http://www.lsa.umich.edu/UMICH/physics/Home/Seminars%20and%20Colloquia/Saturday%20Morning%20Physics/Previous%20Years/Saturday%20Morning%20Physics%20Fall%202006/ER_20061111.ppt 


Yours,

Paul H.


From dave at fallingrocks.com  Tue Dec 29 16:35:08 2009
From: dave at fallingrocks.com (Dave Gheesling)
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 16:35:08 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Wanted: Weston
Message-ID: <5DDCFE1DBFA646C38E75B64E8B7A7865@meteorroom>

All,
Looking to acquire Weston specimens of at least .5 gm in size.  OFF LIST
please...
Thanks,
Dave

Dave Gheesling
IMCA #5967
www.fallingrocks.com 



From oxytropidoceras at cox.net  Tue Dec 29 16:55:40 2009
From: oxytropidoceras at cox.net (Paul Heinrich)
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 15:55:40 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Questions About 1490 Ch'ing-yang, Shansi Event
Message-ID: <4B3A7ADC.50807@cox.net>

Larry wrote:

"For all of his "research" on these falls, Lewis did not
make any effort to try to validate the events beyond his
interpretation of the writings. It has been a long time
since I read the book or talked to him about it."

This brings up some questions about the alleged 1490
falls in Ch'ing-yang, Shansi, China.

1. Are exact citations and translations of the text from
the reports that Lewis interpreted as describing an massive
meteorite fall and thousands of death in 1490 available
anywhere?

2. Has anyone else examined and commented in detail
on the contents of these reports in regard to a possible
meteorite fall and associated deaths in 1490?

Given the nature of the proposed 1490 meteorite fall,
it would be quite fascinating to be able to read the
translations of the primary Chinese text and learn exactly
what is written in them about this event. If there is any
credible information at all in in these reports that supports
such a massive event, it seems like a person could prepare
a publishable paper alone that presents the translated text
concerning what, if anything, happened in 1490, and the
text's interpretation.

Because of the spectacular nature of this hypothesized
event, it seems like more could be written about it then
the short excerpts that I have been able to find.

Yours,

Paul H.






From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net  Tue Dec 29 17:26:54 2009
From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb)
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 16:26:54 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Deaths? Interesting old article-read
References: <20091228131853.zxoekzx8w0w0cwcg@webmail.mhmeteorites.com>
	<CC79A9F479B04D6587639724C10CA630@ATARIENGINE2>
	<cabef996ec12f64b91e467863452451c.squirrel@webmail.lpl.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <A75DF7F8834B43FB92C51E07058F9A5D@ATARIENGINE2>

Hi, Larry, List,

> The events quoted by you from John Lewis'
> book are open to interpretation.

This you quickly spin to UFO's and I. Velikovsky
in the very next sentence and following paragraph.
Ridiculous. There is nothing like that in Lewis'
book.

Such a lame response puzzles me. I realize that
Lewis' views are not popular with the community.
Never really undestood why. To me he seems
emminently reasonable. Perhaps it is merely
an inevitable consequence of conflict between
those who like (and want to assert) a cozy and
orderly universe with none but minor upsets
and those who point out it just ain't so, bub.

"Open to interpretation"? I don't see it. Are you
telling me that the "monk, several birds, and a
sheep... killed by meteorites" was really a nun, some
squirrels and a goat killed by stones thrown by
hooligans? Or that it never happened? Got a
contemporary reference for that?


> Lewis did not make any effort to try to validate
> the events...

Lewis was very clear that his was a records search
(of the sort which almost all of historical research is)
of what historians call "primary sources." He does
sometimes finds multiple references to an event,
but that is rare in the Dark and Middle Ages. See the
opening of Chap. 13 of "Rain of Iron and Ice." Not
field work. Paul's response suggests that field work
could be profitable if the site could be located. That
took me by surprise; I assumed too much time had
passed. It's an exciting thought.

Most of the bulk of my post involved the old Chinese
recorded incidents. Lewis took those from the Yau,
Weissman and Yeomans' paper:
    Yau, K., P. Weissman, and D. Yeomans.
"Meteorite Falls in China and Some Related Human
Casualty Events."  Meteoritics 29, 864-871.

The full text is available here:
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1994Metic..29..864Y

If there is any controversy about the Yau paper (in the
sense of articles that dispute the data or conclusions),
I can't find any despite my Googlestorm for "Yau et al.
1994 meteorite.".

Quoted below are a summary and some comments from:
http://farshores.org/ameteo.htm
    "The... study by Yau et al is based upon an in-depth review
of the catalogues and ancient texts that document the fall
of meteorites in China. Their research has found that 337
meteorites were observed... in China between 700 BC and
AD 1920. Given that the area of China is 9.6 million square
kilometres, Yau et al (1994) find that the average number of
meteorite falls, in China, is 0.1 per year per million square
kilometres. [Please note that this is 80 times smaller than
the MORP estimate and that's too small by 3-4 fold, so the
Yau estimate is modest, to say the least. -- SKW]
    One of the most interesting results of the new study was
revealed when a plot of the number of meteorite falls per
century was made. To their amazement, Yau and co?workers
found a distribution which showed two peaks of higher
than expected activity. An enhanced number of meteorite
falls were recorded between circa 1550 to 1750 and from
circa 1840 to 1880. Unfortunately, it is not easy to understand
what the peaks might mean. The completeness of the accounts
is not known, and the observed rate of falls has to be de-biased
for the effects of an increasing population. That is, as the
population increases so the chances of someone observing a
fireball, and the fall of its accompanying meteorite, increases.
    One explanation of the peaks is that they are due to the existence
of meteorite swarms... This idea is not a new one, but it is
controversial. If nothing else, given that the peaks are real,
and Yau et al offer some statistical arguments to suggest that
they might be, they clearly imply that there are long-term
variations in the rate at which meteorites fall to Earth...
    In the course of their investigations, Yau and co-workers came
across seven accounts of meteorite falls in which human fatalities
and injuries were recorded. In AD 616, for example, it is reported
that "a large shooting star like a bushel fell onto the rebel Lu
Ming-yueh's camp. It destroyed his wall-attacking tower and
crushed to death more than ten people." Another account from
1341 reads, "it rained iron in Chin-ning. They damaged crops.
Most of the people and animals struck by them were killed."
The most recent account uncovered by Yau et al relates to a
fall (or April 25, 1915) in which a woman had her arm torn
off at the shoulder. [A twentieth-century Swedish man lost
his arm to a meteorite also; it was buried with him, the arm,
not the meteorite -- S&T]"

On the entire question of pre-scientific historical documents,
the degree to which ancient chronicles may be relied upon
for observations of astronomical events may be gauged by a
glance at this list of papers:
http://hbar.phys.msu.ru/gorm/eclipse.htm


The "Lewis List" or an expanded version of it is widely quoted
on websites from sober to whacky (who add Firestone, who is
whacky, and Baillie, who is not). He's not responsible for that.
Or do you hold him responsible?

Examples of such references (good and bad):

http://www.cfa.harvard.edu/icq/meteorites.html

http://www.oberlin.edu/faculty/bsimonso/group9.htm

http://www.sott.net/articles/show/151954-Meteorites-Asteroids-and-Comets-Damages-Disasters-Injuries-Deaths-and-Very-Close-Calls

Another reference about historic damaging events is:
    Halliday, I., A.T. Blackwell, and A.A. Griffin.
"Meteorite Impacts on Humans and Buildings."
Nature 318, 317, but I can't find a copy.
    There are a number of interesting-sounding papers
by this team that bear on determining an accurate fall
rate, but I can't get to any of them without bribing The
Lords Who Own All Knowledge with exorbitant sums
from my hoard of ancient gold coins...

As the kid at Holbrook yelled, "Maw! It's raining rocks!"


Sterling K. Webb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu>
To: "Sterling K. Webb" <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net>
Cc: <mail at mhmeteorites.com>; <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 5:02 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Deaths? Interesting old 
article-read


> Hi Sterling:
>
> The events quoted by you from John Lewis' book are open to 
> interpretation.
> Similar interpretations give us:
>
> Ezekiel saw a flying saucer
>
> And, for those who like interpretations of the Bible and other 
> writings:
>
> Joshua made the Earth stand still: This was due to the fact that Venus 
> was
> a comet that was spun off(?) from Jupiter (do not remember if this was 
> the
> source of the Great Red Spot) and flew by the Earth twice before 
> becoming
> a new planet. My memory is a little hazy on this, but I think this is 
> also
> the source of our oil. [I. Velikovsky] I think that it has been 
> claimed
> that this was confirmed when we found out that Venus was hot, having 
> been
> predicted by Velikovsky.
>
> Larry
>
> PS Sterling: Are you going to make me go back a reread the book to 
> give
> you more specific references?
>
>> Hi, Matt, List,
>>
>> On September 14, 1511, in Cremona in Lombardy,
>> Italy, a monk, several birds, and a sheep were killed
>> by meteorites.
>>
>> Sometime between 1647 and 1654, two sailors on a
>> ship en route from Japan to Sicily, while in the Indian
>> Ocean, were killed by meteorites.
>>
>> Sometime between 1633 and 1664, a monk in Milan
>> was killed by a meteorite which severed his femoral
>> artery, causing him to bleed to death.
>>
>> Chinese records of lethal impact events include the
>> death of 10 victims from a meteorite fall in 616 AD, an
>> "iron rain" in the O-chia district in the 14th century
>> that killed people and animals, several soldiers injured
>> by the fall of a "large star" in Ho-t'ao in 1369, and many
>> others. The most startling is a report of an event in early
>> 1490 in Ch'ing-yang, Shansi, in which many people
>> were killed when stones "fell like rain." Of the three
>> known surviving reports of this event, one says that
>> "over 10,000 people" were killed, and one says that
>> "several tens of thousands" were killed.
>>
>> There is a discussion of these and many more such
>> incidents in John S. Lewis, "Rain of Iron and Ice," 1996.
>>
>> One could collect pages and pages of early accounts of
>> meteorite falls and pages more of events that could well
>> be meteoritic although those that wrote the accounts
>> did not know of the idea that stones could fall from the
>> sky. You could fill a book... and people have.
>>
>> A catalogue of meteorites is not a book of reported falls;
>> it is a book of collected and curated falls. The oldest
>> curated stone is NOGATA, which fell May 19, 861 AD.
>> It hit a shrine and has been kept there ever since. The
>> meteorite that hit a house in NARA (then the capital
>> city of Japan) in 764 AD doesn't count because nobody
>> has it safely curated.
>>
>>> ...can they be substantiated?
>>
>> No more or less than the rest of history. They tell me
>> Julius Caesar was assassinated. That's the story. Most
>> agree that it happened. No one wrote to deny it. It's the
>> story I always heard, so I believe it, like I do all the rest
>> of history. But I wasn't there, I haven't checked the DNA
>> on the dagger, I don't know where he was buried, I haven't
>> read the autopsy report. I'm more than a carpet fiber away
>> from proving the case...
>>
>> Three Chinese historical chronicles recount the huge
>> meteorite fall and thousands of deaths in Ch'ing-yang,
>> Shansi, in late February or early March of 1490. It's as
>> much history as Caesar's assassination is, no more, no
>> less. It's as "substantiated" as any history. There were
>> no Ming Dynasty tabloid news stories. History-writing
>> was politically sensitive and historians were occasionally
>> executed for falsity, particularly about "heavenly" events.
>>
>>
>> Sterling K. Webb
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: <mail at mhmeteorites.com>
>> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>> Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 3:18 PM
>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Deaths? Interesting old 
>> article-read
>>
>>
>>>A friend sent this link to me in regard to the Bear Creek meteorite.
>>> <http://www.coloradohistoricnewspapers.org/Repository/ml.asp?Ref=Uk1ELzE4NjYvMDUvMTQjQXIwMDIwMA==&Mode=Gif&Locale=english-skin-custom>
>>>
>>> Near the end of the text it details the deaths of 3 monks and 2
>>> Swedish sailors by meteorite impact!
>>> Has anyone heard of this?  The passage reads:
>>>
>>>  "A few instances are on record of buildings being struck and set on
>>> fire and persons struck dead by the fall of aerolites.  These Three
>>> monks were killed, one on the 4th September 1611, at Crema (?),
>>> another at Milan, in 1650, and a third in the same place in 1660. 
>>> In
>>> 1674 two Swedish sailors on board ship were killed by the fall of
>>> one."
>>>
>>> Having never heard of this I searched the Catalog of Meteorites and
>>> came up blank.  Has anyone heard of these falls and can they be
>>> substantiated?
>>>
>>> Matt Morgan
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>
> 



From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Tue Dec 29 20:52:10 2009
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 17:52:10 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] What The???
Message-ID: <4B3AB24A.9050004@meteoritesusa.com>

You guys are gonna love this... ;)

http://maps.google.com/maps?source=embed&layer=c&cbll=42.36396,13.368008&cbp=13,320.72,,0,-29.96&ie=UTF8&panoid=K0Hv_pLb98MJa2Cd_QcH2w&ll=42.363907,13.367907&spn=0,359.997589&z=19

Regards,
Eric Wichman
Meteorites USA


From info at meteorites.com.au  Tue Dec 29 21:02:14 2009
From: info at meteorites.com.au (Jeff Kuyken)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 13:02:14 +1100
Subject: [meteorite-list] What The???
In-Reply-To: <4B3AB24A.9050004@meteoritesusa.com>
References: <4B3AB24A.9050004@meteoritesusa.com>
Message-ID: <41C1C6E9BC084BBB97B383AEB473E241@JeffPC>

Tree branch?

Cheers,

Jeff


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Meteorites USA" <eric at meteoritesusa.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 12:52 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] What The???


> You guys are gonna love this... ;)
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?source=embed&layer=c&cbll=42.36396,13.368008&cbp=13,320.72,,0,-29.96&ie=UTF8&panoid=K0Hv_pLb98MJa2Cd_QcH2w&ll=42.363907,13.367907&spn=0,359.997589&z=19
>
> Regards,
> Eric Wichman
> Meteorites USA
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> 



From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Tue Dec 29 21:05:41 2009
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 18:05:41 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] What The???
In-Reply-To: <41C1C6E9BC084BBB97B383AEB473E241@JeffPC>
References: <4B3AB24A.9050004@meteoritesusa.com>
	<41C1C6E9BC084BBB97B383AEB473E241@JeffPC>
Message-ID: <4B3AB575.1020503@meteoritesusa.com>

Good guess Jeff... ;)

http://maps.google.com/maps?source=embed&layer=c&cbll=42.364482,13.366814&cbp=13,259.02,,0,-24.58&ie=UTF8&panoid=kTpI1__Z3n4n9h0p6l56ng&ll=42.364422,13.36699&spn=0,359.995872&z=19

;(

I know if any of you were like me at first it was slightly hopeful but 
alas, it is just a tree branch. ;)

Cool looking though huh?

Regards,
Eric


On 12/29/2009 6:02 PM, Jeff Kuyken wrote:
> Tree branch?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jeff
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Meteorites USA" 
> <eric at meteoritesusa.com>
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 12:52 PM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] What The???
>
>
>> You guys are gonna love this... ;)
>>
>> http://maps.google.com/maps?source=embed&layer=c&cbll=42.36396,13.368008&cbp=13,320.72,,0,-29.96&ie=UTF8&panoid=K0Hv_pLb98MJa2Cd_QcH2w&ll=42.363907,13.367907&spn=0,359.997589&z=19 
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>> Eric Wichman
>> Meteorites USA
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>>
>
>


From epmajden at shaw.ca  Tue Dec 29 15:48:20 2009
From: epmajden at shaw.ca (Ed Majden)
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 12:48:20 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] [specialastrooptics] Special Lenses for Astronomy
References: <hhdo06+emk5@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <9D94854B-1D4D-4AEB-8930-0D804A7D305F@shaw.ca>

New Newsgroup on Yahoogroups.ca
Ed

Begin forwarded message:

> From: Ed <epmajden at shaw.ca>
> Date: December 29, 2009 12:15:02 PM PST
> To: specialastrooptics at yahoogroups.ca
> Subject: [specialastrooptics] Special Lenses for Astronomy
> Reply-To: specialastrooptics at yahoogroups.ca
>
>
> I created this newsgroup in order to obtain information on special  
> optical lenses like surplus military lenses, ultra high speed  
> lenses for use in faint meteor recording, direct image on film,  
> with image intensifiers, etc. I am especially interested in the  
> Super Farron f/0.87 - 72 mm f.l. lens that was used by NASA/LRC for  
> a faint meteor spectra patrol back in the 1960/70s. This type of  
> lens was used for aero imaging, x-ray imaging, and CRT recording. I  
> have the latter which is designed for 4:1 imaging of a CRT screen.  
> My question is, can you make this lens focus on objects at  
> infinity? Does anyone have any information on this lens type? I  
> can't get it to focus on objects at infinity unless I remove one of  
> the rear elements. Is this a normal practice or is there another  
> attachment lens that will provide good focus at infinity?
>



From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Tue Dec 29 23:02:02 2009
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 20:02:02 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Molten Core? Solid Core? Rocky Core? Blue Cheese!?
Message-ID: <4B3AD0BA.5030906@meteoritesusa.com>

OK,

A friend and I were watching a show on Discovery or NatGeo a couple 
months back. The program I think was about asteroids, and impacts, 
perhaps even "How the Earth Was Made" or another program. Don't really 
remember....

The point is during the show they said very matter-of-factly on three 
separate occasions that the Earth's core was made of three different 
materials. One scientist (or narrator I don't remember)  said Earth had 
a rocky core. Which we laughed at of course because we all know that the 
Earth's core is Solid iron right? Then another scientist confirmed our 
knowledge and stated what we already knew. The Earth core is made of 
SOLID iron. "Of course we said!" Now that's right... Then not 10 minutes 
more into the show another person stated that the Earth had a molten 
iron core.

To make matters even more confusing the show went on to say that the 
SOLID iron core was surrounded by molten iron with lighter "rocky" 
materials "floating" out beyond that OK... sounded good at the time, but....

My question is simple. Which is it? Molten? Solid Iron? or Solid iron 
surrounded by molten iron. And if it's the latter how is this possible? 
Wouldn't the solid iron core NOT be solid if it were sitting in the 
middle of a molten lake of iron? Does the core cool faster than the 
surrounding material, and if so how is this possible considering this 
the logic that says an object cools from the outside in.

Now, I'd like to stop there but I just read an interesting article on 
National Geographic's website titled "North Magnetic Pole Moving East 
Due to Core Flux" here:
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/12/091224-north-pole-magnetic-russia-earth-core.html

At the end of the article it flatly states:

"...Wandering Pole -

Geologists think Earth has a magnetic field because the core is made up 
of a solid iron center surrounded by rapidly spinning liquid metal. This 
creates a "dynamo" that drives our magnetic field.

Scientists had long suspected that, since the molten core is constantly 
moving, changes in its magnetism might be affecting the surface location 
of magnetic north...."

I don't know about you, but this confuses me just a little bit...

Can anyone please clear this up for me? And perhaps the rest of the 
world? ;)

Regards,
Eric Wichman
Meteorites USA




From damoclid at yahoo.com  Tue Dec 29 23:09:39 2009
From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski)
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 20:09:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Molten Core? Solid Core? Rocky Core? Blue
	Cheese!?
In-Reply-To: <4B3AD0BA.5030906@meteoritesusa.com>
Message-ID: <636421.43410.qm@web113606.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Solid Iron Inner Core. Liquid Iron Outer Core.

Wiki is a good read.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structure_of_the_Earth


--
Richard Kowalski
http://fullmoonphotography.net
IMCA #1081


--- On Tue, 12/29/09, Meteorites USA <eric at meteoritesusa.com> wrote:

> From: Meteorites USA <eric at meteoritesusa.com>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Molten Core? Solid Core? Rocky Core? Blue Cheese!?
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Tuesday, December 29, 2009, 9:02 PM
> OK,
> 
> A friend and I were watching a show on Discovery or NatGeo
> a couple months back. The program I think was about
> asteroids, and impacts, perhaps even "How the Earth Was
> Made" or another program. Don't really remember....
> 
> The point is during the show they said very
> matter-of-factly on three separate occasions that the
> Earth's core was made of three different materials. One
> scientist (or narrator I don't remember)? said Earth
> had a rocky core. Which we laughed at of course because we
> all know that the Earth's core is Solid iron right? Then
> another scientist confirmed our knowledge and stated what we
> already knew. The Earth core is made of SOLID iron. "Of
> course we said!" Now that's right... Then not 10 minutes
> more into the show another person stated that the Earth had
> a molten iron core.
> 
> To make matters even more confusing the show went on to say
> that the SOLID iron core was surrounded by molten iron with
> lighter "rocky" materials "floating" out beyond that OK...
> sounded good at the time, but....
> 
> My question is simple. Which is it? Molten? Solid Iron? or
> Solid iron surrounded by molten iron. And if it's the latter
> how is this possible? Wouldn't the solid iron core NOT be
> solid if it were sitting in the middle of a molten lake of
> iron? Does the core cool faster than the surrounding
> material, and if so how is this possible considering this
> the logic that says an object cools from the outside in.
> 
> Now, I'd like to stop there but I just read an interesting
> article on National Geographic's website titled "North
> Magnetic Pole Moving East Due to Core Flux" here:
> http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/12/091224-north-pole-magnetic-russia-earth-core.html
> 
> At the end of the article it flatly states:
> 
> "...Wandering Pole -
> 
> Geologists think Earth has a magnetic field because the
> core is made up of a solid iron center surrounded by rapidly
> spinning liquid metal. This creates a "dynamo" that drives
> our magnetic field.
> 
> Scientists had long suspected that, since the molten core
> is constantly moving, changes in its magnetism might be
> affecting the surface location of magnetic north...."
> 
> I don't know about you, but this confuses me just a little
> bit...
> 
> Can anyone please clear this up for me? And perhaps the
> rest of the world? ;)
> 
> Regards,
> Eric Wichman
> Meteorites USA
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      


From grf2 at comcast.net  Tue Dec 29 23:27:47 2009
From: grf2 at comcast.net (Jerry Flaherty)
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 23:27:47 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Molten Core? Solid Core? Rocky Core?
	BlueCheese!?
References: <636421.43410.qm@web113606.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2A50EF8F490045769DCC023DB77192E6@ASUS>

Doesn't the magnetic field necessitate "Flowing" or "Turbulence"  within the 
core, a result of the Earth's differential rotation?

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Richard Kowalski" <damoclid at yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 11:09 PM
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>; "Meteorites USA" 
<eric at meteoritesusa.com>
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Molten Core? Solid Core? Rocky Core? 
BlueCheese!?

> Solid Iron Inner Core. Liquid Iron Outer Core.
>
> Wiki is a good read.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structure_of_the_Earth
>
>
> --
> Richard Kowalski
> http://fullmoonphotography.net
> IMCA #1081
>
>
> --- On Tue, 12/29/09, Meteorites USA <eric at meteoritesusa.com> wrote:
>
>> From: Meteorites USA <eric at meteoritesusa.com>
>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Molten Core? Solid Core? Rocky Core? Blue 
>> Cheese!?
>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Date: Tuesday, December 29, 2009, 9:02 PM
>> OK,
>>
>> A friend and I were watching a show on Discovery or NatGeo
>> a couple months back. The program I think was about
>> asteroids, and impacts, perhaps even "How the Earth Was
>> Made" or another program. Don't really remember....
>>
>> The point is during the show they said very
>> matter-of-factly on three separate occasions that the
>> Earth's core was made of three different materials. One
>> scientist (or narrator I don't remember) said Earth
>> had a rocky core. Which we laughed at of course because we
>> all know that the Earth's core is Solid iron right? Then
>> another scientist confirmed our knowledge and stated what we
>> already knew. The Earth core is made of SOLID iron. "Of
>> course we said!" Now that's right... Then not 10 minutes
>> more into the show another person stated that the Earth had
>> a molten iron core.
>>
>> To make matters even more confusing the show went on to say
>> that the SOLID iron core was surrounded by molten iron with
>> lighter "rocky" materials "floating" out beyond that OK...
>> sounded good at the time, but....
>>
>> My question is simple. Which is it? Molten? Solid Iron? or
>> Solid iron surrounded by molten iron. And if it's the latter
>> how is this possible? Wouldn't the solid iron core NOT be
>> solid if it were sitting in the middle of a molten lake of
>> iron? Does the core cool faster than the surrounding
>> material, and if so how is this possible considering this
>> the logic that says an object cools from the outside in.
>>
>> Now, I'd like to stop there but I just read an interesting
>> article on National Geographic's website titled "North
>> Magnetic Pole Moving East Due to Core Flux" here:
>> http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/12/091224-north-pole-magnetic-russia-earth-core.html
>>
>> At the end of the article it flatly states:
>>
>> "...Wandering Pole -
>>
>> Geologists think Earth has a magnetic field because the
>> core is made up of a solid iron center surrounded by rapidly
>> spinning liquid metal. This creates a "dynamo" that drives
>> our magnetic field.
>>
>> Scientists had long suspected that, since the molten core
>> is constantly moving, changes in its magnetism might be
>> affecting the surface location of magnetic north...."
>>
>> I don't know about you, but this confuses me just a little
>> bit...
>>
>> Can anyone please clear this up for me? And perhaps the
>> rest of the world? ;)
>>
>> Regards,
>> Eric Wichman
>> Meteorites USA
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From oxytropidoceras at cox.net  Tue Dec 29 23:33:54 2009
From: oxytropidoceras at cox.net (Paul Heinrich)
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 22:33:54 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Deaths? Interesting old article-read
Message-ID: <4B3AD832.6020303@cox.net>

Susan K. Webb wrote:

"Most of the bulk of my post involved the old Chinese
recorded incidents. Lewis took those from the Yau,
Weissman and Yeomans' paper:"

Yau, K., P. Weissman, and D. Yeomans, 1994, Meteorite
Falls in China and Some Related Human Casualty Events.
Meteoritics. vol. 29, pp. 864-871.

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1994Metic..29..864Y

PDF file at: http://tiny.cc/ChineseFalls or

http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-iarticle_query?1994Metic..29..864Y&amp;data_type=PDF_HIGH&amp;whole_paper=YES&amp;type=PRINTER&amp;filetype=.pdf
 
Thank you for the citation and reference to the Chinese
falls. It is a rather interesting and very useful paper.

Webb also wrote;

"Paul's response suggests that field work
could be profitable if the site could be
located. That took me by surprise; I assumed
too much time had passed. It's an exciting
thought."

I agree with you that this is a very interesting thought.
It the case of the reported falls that involve just a few
stones, it highly unlikely that much of anything could
be found.

However, in case of certain reported falls, in which
it appears that thousands of pieces might have fell,
I think even after a few hundred years, that there is
a fair chance that there might still be meteorites that
can be found. I suspect, if a person took into account
what geoarchaeologists call "site formation processes"
and used what is known about the geomorphology and
geomorphologic history of the area, a good geomorphologist
/ geologist / geoarchaeology could make specific
predictions as to where any meteorites from a fall
eventually came to rest and where to best look for them.
It is matter of using the enormous amount of knowledge
already gathered about geomorphology, surficial
landscape processes, and "site formation processes" to
predict the best places to look for meteorites deposited
from a possible fall.

Of course after several hundred years, any meteorites found
would likely be too weathered to be of any interest to
collectors. However, I suspect that scientifically useful
information can still be collected despite how badly
weathered the specimens might be. Of course, any search
for such reported falls would not be easy and there would
be no guarantee of success.

Looking at Yau et al. (1994), the reported 1490 fall, in my
opinion, might be a promising candidate for a search for
meteorites because of both the reported number of objects
and the reported size, 1.0 to 1.5 kg, of individual pieces.
Unfortunately, at this time, I cannot determine what the
modern name for Ch'ing-yang, China and its exact location
is at this time given the different and changing ways that
Chinese names have been and are transliterated into English.

Best Wishes,

Paul H.



From grf2 at comcast.net  Tue Dec 29 23:35:05 2009
From: grf2 at comcast.net (Jerry Flaherty)
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 23:35:05 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Molten Core? Solid Core? Rocky
	Core?BlueCheese!?
References: <636421.43410.qm@web113606.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<2A50EF8F490045769DCC023DB77192E6@ASUS>
Message-ID: <FB1CAC55F97446D99464F7E34899FB44@ASUS>

I didn't see the show you're describing but perhaps they were playing 
"Devil's advocate" [excuse the biblical reference] to highlight a salient 
point.

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Jerry Flaherty" <grf2 at comcast.net>
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 11:27 PM
To: "Richard Kowalski" <damoclid at yahoo.com>; 
<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>; "Meteorites USA" 
<eric at meteoritesusa.com>
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Molten Core? Solid Core? Rocky 
Core?BlueCheese!?

> Doesn't the magnetic field necessitate "Flowing" or "Turbulence"  within 
> the core, a result of the Earth's differential rotation?
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Richard Kowalski" <damoclid at yahoo.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 11:09 PM
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>; "Meteorites USA" 
> <eric at meteoritesusa.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Molten Core? Solid Core? Rocky Core? 
> BlueCheese!?
>
>> Solid Iron Inner Core. Liquid Iron Outer Core.
>>
>> Wiki is a good read.
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structure_of_the_Earth
>>
>>
>> --
>> Richard Kowalski
>> http://fullmoonphotography.net
>> IMCA #1081
>>
>>
>> --- On Tue, 12/29/09, Meteorites USA <eric at meteoritesusa.com> wrote:
>>
>>> From: Meteorites USA <eric at meteoritesusa.com>
>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Molten Core? Solid Core? Rocky Core? Blue 
>>> Cheese!?
>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> Date: Tuesday, December 29, 2009, 9:02 PM
>>> OK,
>>>
>>> A friend and I were watching a show on Discovery or NatGeo
>>> a couple months back. The program I think was about
>>> asteroids, and impacts, perhaps even "How the Earth Was
>>> Made" or another program. Don't really remember....
>>>
>>> The point is during the show they said very
>>> matter-of-factly on three separate occasions that the
>>> Earth's core was made of three different materials. One
>>> scientist (or narrator I don't remember) said Earth
>>> had a rocky core. Which we laughed at of course because we
>>> all know that the Earth's core is Solid iron right? Then
>>> another scientist confirmed our knowledge and stated what we
>>> already knew. The Earth core is made of SOLID iron. "Of
>>> course we said!" Now that's right... Then not 10 minutes
>>> more into the show another person stated that the Earth had
>>> a molten iron core.
>>>
>>> To make matters even more confusing the show went on to say
>>> that the SOLID iron core was surrounded by molten iron with
>>> lighter "rocky" materials "floating" out beyond that OK...
>>> sounded good at the time, but....
>>>
>>> My question is simple. Which is it? Molten? Solid Iron? or
>>> Solid iron surrounded by molten iron. And if it's the latter
>>> how is this possible? Wouldn't the solid iron core NOT be
>>> solid if it were sitting in the middle of a molten lake of
>>> iron? Does the core cool faster than the surrounding
>>> material, and if so how is this possible considering this
>>> the logic that says an object cools from the outside in.
>>>
>>> Now, I'd like to stop there but I just read an interesting
>>> article on National Geographic's website titled "North
>>> Magnetic Pole Moving East Due to Core Flux" here:
>>> http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/12/091224-north-pole-magnetic-russia-earth-core.html
>>>
>>> At the end of the article it flatly states:
>>>
>>> "...Wandering Pole -
>>>
>>> Geologists think Earth has a magnetic field because the
>>> core is made up of a solid iron center surrounded by rapidly
>>> spinning liquid metal. This creates a "dynamo" that drives
>>> our magnetic field.
>>>
>>> Scientists had long suspected that, since the molten core
>>> is constantly moving, changes in its magnetism might be
>>> affecting the surface location of magnetic north...."
>>>
>>> I don't know about you, but this confuses me just a little
>>> bit...
>>>
>>> Can anyone please clear this up for me? And perhaps the
>>> rest of the world? ;)
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Eric Wichman
>>> Meteorites USA
>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From grf2 at comcast.net  Tue Dec 29 23:41:08 2009
From: grf2 at comcast.net (Jerry Flaherty)
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 23:41:08 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] need Steve A's GIANT MAGNET
Message-ID: <EA511C6B61A24494B2D716AF474D3CBD@ASUS>

geoarchaeologists call "site formation processes
If he can find Brenham send him to China!!!!!!!!!!! 


From damoclid at yahoo.com  Wed Dec 30 01:55:13 2009
From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski)
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 22:55:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Molten Core? Solid Core? Rocky Core? Blue
	Cheese!?
In-Reply-To: <4B3AE9C0.2010804@meteoritesusa.com>
Message-ID: <518224.87602.qm@web113612.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Don't equate "freezing" with cold, at least not in everyday terms.

At the Inner Core, the Iron is freezing; going from a liquid to a solid. The same amount of energy to melt something is the exact same amount of energy that something gives off as it freezes. The change of state is key here.

It isn't obvious, but on a human scale, farmers in warmer climes will spray water on their crops on nights when there will be a hard freeze. The reason for this is two-fold. One, the ice insulates the fruit, but two, the act of the water freezing gives off heat.


--
Richard Kowalski
http://fullmoonphotography.net
IMCA #1081


--- On Tue, 12/29/09, Meteorites USA <eric at meteoritesusa.com> wrote:

> From: Meteorites USA <eric at meteoritesusa.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Molten Core? Solid Core? Rocky Core? Blue Cheese!?
> To: "Richard Kowalski" <damoclid at yahoo.com>
> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Tuesday, December 29, 2009, 10:48 PM
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   
> 
>  
> Thanks and that makes perfect sense. Thank goodness for the
> Wiki...
> 
> 
> 
> So why is the core supposedly "freezing" cold
> "...The current
> scientific explanation for the Earth's temperature
> gradient
> is a combination of the heat left over from the
> planet's initial
> formation, the decay of radioactive elements, and the
> freezing of the
> inner core..." And how do we know this?
> 
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Eric
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 12/29/2009 8:09 PM, Richard Kowalski wrote:
> 
>   Solid Iron Inner Core. Liquid Iron Outer Core.
> 
> Wiki is a good read.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structure_of_the_Earth
> 
> 
> --
> Richard Kowalski
> http://fullmoonphotography.net
> IMCA #1081
> 
> 
> --- On Tue, 12/29/09, Meteorites USA <eric at meteoritesusa.com>
> wrote:
> 
>   
>   
>     From: Meteorites USA <eric at meteoritesusa.com>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Molten Core? Solid Core? Rocky
> Core? Blue Cheese!?
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Tuesday, December 29, 2009, 9:02 PM
> OK,
> 
> A friend and I were watching a show on Discovery or NatGeo
> a couple months back. The program I think was about
> asteroids, and impacts, perhaps even "How the Earth
> Was
> Made" or another program. Don't really
> remember....
> 
> The point is during the show they said very
> matter-of-factly on three separate occasions that the
> Earth's core was made of three different materials. One
> scientist (or narrator I don't remember)? said
> Earth
> had a rocky core. Which we laughed at of course because we
> all know that the Earth's core is Solid iron right?
> Then
> another scientist confirmed our knowledge and stated what
> we
> already knew. The Earth core is made of SOLID iron.
> "Of
> course we said!" Now that's right... Then not 10
> minutes
> more into the show another person stated that the Earth had
> a molten iron core.
> 
> To make matters even more confusing the show went on to say
> that the SOLID iron core was surrounded by molten iron with
> lighter "rocky" materials "floating"
> out beyond that OK...
> sounded good at the time, but....
> 
> My question is simple. Which is it? Molten? Solid Iron? or
> Solid iron surrounded by molten iron. And if it's the
> latter
> how is this possible? Wouldn't the solid iron core NOT
> be
> solid if it were sitting in the middle of a molten lake of
> iron? Does the core cool faster than the surrounding
> material, and if so how is this possible considering this
> the logic that says an object cools from the outside in.
> 
> Now, I'd like to stop there but I just read an
> interesting
> article on National Geographic's website titled
> "North
> Magnetic Pole Moving East Due to Core Flux" here:
> http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/12/091224-north-pole-magnetic-russia-earth-core.html
> 
> At the end of the article it flatly states:
> 
> "...Wandering Pole -
> 
> Geologists think Earth has a magnetic field because the
> core is made up of a solid iron center surrounded by
> rapidly
> spinning liquid metal. This creates a "dynamo"
> that drives
> our magnetic field.
> 
> Scientists had long suspected that, since the molten core
> is constantly moving, changes in its magnetism might be
> affecting the surface location of magnetic north...."
> 
> I don't know about you, but this confuses me just a
> little
> bit...
> 
> Can anyone please clear this up for me? And perhaps the
> rest of the world? ;)
> 
> Regards,
> Eric Wichman
> Meteorites USA
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 
>     
>   
>   
> 
>       
> 
>   
> 
>  
> 
> 


      


From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net  Wed Dec 30 02:44:15 2009
From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 01:44:15 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Molten Core? Solid Core? Rocky
	Core?BlueCheese!?
References: <636421.43410.qm@web113606.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<2A50EF8F490045769DCC023DB77192E6@ASUS>
Message-ID: <E3A1E876620544CB84BBF895007342B5@ATARIENGINE2>

Here's your flowing turbulence, Jerry!
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/12/091223222743.htm


Sterling K. Webb
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jerry Flaherty" <grf2 at comcast.net>
To: "Richard Kowalski" <damoclid at yahoo.com>; 
<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>; "Meteorites USA" 
<eric at meteoritesusa.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 10:27 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Molten Core? Solid Core? Rocky 
Core?BlueCheese!?


> Doesn't the magnetic field necessitate "Flowing" or "Turbulence" 
> within the core, a result of the Earth's differential rotation?
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Richard Kowalski" <damoclid at yahoo.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 11:09 PM
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>; "Meteorites USA" 
> <eric at meteoritesusa.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Molten Core? Solid Core? Rocky Core? 
> BlueCheese!?
>
>> Solid Iron Inner Core. Liquid Iron Outer Core.
>>
>> Wiki is a good read.
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structure_of_the_Earth
>>
>>
>> --
>> Richard Kowalski
>> http://fullmoonphotography.net
>> IMCA #1081
>>
>>
>> --- On Tue, 12/29/09, Meteorites USA <eric at meteoritesusa.com> wrote:
>>
>>> From: Meteorites USA <eric at meteoritesusa.com>
>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Molten Core? Solid Core? Rocky Core? Blue 
>>> Cheese!?
>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> Date: Tuesday, December 29, 2009, 9:02 PM
>>> OK,
>>>
>>> A friend and I were watching a show on Discovery or NatGeo
>>> a couple months back. The program I think was about
>>> asteroids, and impacts, perhaps even "How the Earth Was
>>> Made" or another program. Don't really remember....
>>>
>>> The point is during the show they said very
>>> matter-of-factly on three separate occasions that the
>>> Earth's core was made of three different materials. One
>>> scientist (or narrator I don't remember) said Earth
>>> had a rocky core. Which we laughed at of course because we
>>> all know that the Earth's core is Solid iron right? Then
>>> another scientist confirmed our knowledge and stated what we
>>> already knew. The Earth core is made of SOLID iron. "Of
>>> course we said!" Now that's right... Then not 10 minutes
>>> more into the show another person stated that the Earth had
>>> a molten iron core.
>>>
>>> To make matters even more confusing the show went on to say
>>> that the SOLID iron core was surrounded by molten iron with
>>> lighter "rocky" materials "floating" out beyond that OK...
>>> sounded good at the time, but....
>>>
>>> My question is simple. Which is it? Molten? Solid Iron? or
>>> Solid iron surrounded by molten iron. And if it's the latter
>>> how is this possible? Wouldn't the solid iron core NOT be
>>> solid if it were sitting in the middle of a molten lake of
>>> iron? Does the core cool faster than the surrounding
>>> material, and if so how is this possible considering this
>>> the logic that says an object cools from the outside in.
>>>
>>> Now, I'd like to stop there but I just read an interesting
>>> article on National Geographic's website titled "North
>>> Magnetic Pole Moving East Due to Core Flux" here:
>>> http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/12/091224-north-pole-magnetic-russia-earth-core.html
>>>
>>> At the end of the article it flatly states:
>>>
>>> "...Wandering Pole -
>>>
>>> Geologists think Earth has a magnetic field because the
>>> core is made up of a solid iron center surrounded by rapidly
>>> spinning liquid metal. This creates a "dynamo" that drives
>>> our magnetic field.
>>>
>>> Scientists had long suspected that, since the molten core
>>> is constantly moving, changes in its magnetism might be
>>> affecting the surface location of magnetic north...."
>>>
>>> I don't know about you, but this confuses me just a little
>>> bit...
>>>
>>> Can anyone please clear this up for me? And perhaps the
>>> rest of the world? ;)
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Eric Wichman
>>> Meteorites USA
>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From fujmon at mac.com  Wed Dec 30 11:45:29 2009
From: fujmon at mac.com (Gary Fujihara)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 06:45:29 -1000
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD-Parnallee, Kem Kem, Murchison, and more ...
Message-ID: <081C7DF1-5E38-4DB2-8DB8-F93A030153F8@mac.com>

Aloha listees (sorry if this is a double post-first one stuck in cyberspace),

To start the new year with a bang, the Big Kahuna is offering a wide variety of meteorites to suit every taste and budget, with an ebay auction ending this Saturday, January 2 starting at 7:53 am Pacific / 10:53 am Eastern / 3:53 pm London / 5:53 pm Helsinki / 11:53 pm Singapore.  

Parnallee LL3.6  4.2g Crusted Endcut MNH London Provenance
Kem Kem 33 16.06g  Historic Half stone, currently at $24.99
NWA 2975 Martian 0.16, 0.49g Crusted ind starting @ $59.99
D'Orbigny Ang 0.17g, 0.34g  Crusted frags starting at $68.99
NWA 869 L4-6 10.91g  Dark Remnant Crust, now $1.25
Bassikounou H5 8.96g  Perfect 100% FC, only $17.99
Chergach H5 15.45g  98% FC, a steal at $29.99
Gao-Guenie H5 10g Oriented Beauty starting @ $34.99
Allende CV3.2  The Freshest Slices, Frags, Individuals!!
NWA 3118 CV3  10.19g  Stunning Chondrules $19.99
Murchison CM2  0.16g Crusted Frag, now @ $15.99
SaU 290  CH3  2.5g  Rare Crusted Frag, starting @ $99.99
Camel Donga Euc  8.57g  AAA Stone w/ Lipping, Flowlines 
Glorieta Mtn 9.73g Oriented Siderite, starting at $89.99

... and much more, like some cool pendant vials filled with Johnstown, Murchison, D'Orbigny frags, NWA 1877 OD, Tatahouine Dio, NWA x Pal, Henbury, an oriented Sikhote Alin and NWA x, an Apollo 11 - 40th Anniversary embroidered patch and sticker combo, and yet another Galileoscope.

http://shop.ebay.com/fujmon/m.html

Remember that you can count on the Big Kahuna to provide you with the highest quality authentic meteorites at the lowest prices on earth.

Gary Fujihara
Big Kahuna Meteorites (IMCA#1693)
105 Puhili Place, Hilo, Hawaii 96720
(808) 640-9161



From fujmon at mac.com  Wed Dec 30 10:48:21 2009
From: fujmon at mac.com (Gary Fujihara)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 05:48:21 -1000
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD-New Year
Message-ID: <69B8F00F-4E05-4781-83F6-89113DBBD90D@mac.com>

Aloha listees,

To start the new year with a bang, the Big Kahuna is offering a wide variety of meteorites to suit every taste and budget, with an ebay auction ending this Saturday, January 2 starting at 7:53 am Pacific / 10:53 am Eastern / 3:53 pm London / 5:53 pm Helsinki / 11:53 pm Singapore.  

Parnallee LL3.6  4.2g Crusted Endcut MNH London Provenance
Kem Kem 33 16.06g  Historic Half stone, currently at $24.99
NWA 2975 Martian 0.16, 0.49g Crusted ind starting @ $59.99
D'Orbigny Ang 0.17g, 0.34g  Crusted frags starting at $68.99
NWA 869 L4-6 10.91g  Dark Remnant Crust, now $1.25
Bassikounou H5 8.96g  Perfect 100% FC, only $17.99
Chergach H5 15.45g  98% FC, a steal at $29.99
Gao-Guenie H5 10g Oriented Beauty starting @ $34.99
Allende CV3.2  The Freshest Slices, Frags, Individuals!!
NWA 3118 CV3  10.19g  Stunning Chondrules $19.99
Murchison CM2  0.16g Crusted Frag, now @ $15.99
SaU 290  CH3  2.5g  Rare Crusted Frag, starting @ $99.99
Camel Donga Euc  8.57g  AAA Stone w/ Lipping, Flowlines 
Glorieta Mtn 9.73g Oriented Siderite, starting at $89.99

... and much more, like some cool pendant vials filled with Johnstown, Murchison, D'Orbigny frags, NWA 1877 OD, Tatahouine Dio, NWA x Pal, Henbury, an oriented Sikhote Alin and NWA x, an Apollo 11 - 40th Anniversary embroidered patch and sticker combo, and yet another Galileoscope.

http://shop.ebay.com/fujmon/m.html

Remember that you can count on the Big Kahuna to provide you with the highest quality authentic meteorites at the lowest prices on earth.

Gary Fujihara
Big Kahuna Meteorites (IMCA#1693)
105 Puhili Place, Hilo, Hawaii 96720
(808) 640-9161



From minador at yahoo.com  Wed Dec 30 12:06:54 2009
From: minador at yahoo.com (Mark Bowling)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 09:06:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Arizona Meteorite Exhibition & the Arizona-Sonora
	Desert Museum
In-Reply-To: <3F971E68-1FEA-462C-B3AA-CA9D8F8B1CCC@notkin.net>
Message-ID: <36775.40867.qm@web54501.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Hello everyone,

Folks have been asking about events to see at the show this year, but I haven?t seen much mention of the first Arizona Meteorite Exhibition on Jan 30th at the U of A LPL.  I?m definitely planning to attend.

Here?s a link: http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/calendar/calendar.php?ID=270

So on a related note, I was talking to someone at work about their Christmas break visit to the Arizona-Sonora Desert Museum, and it reminded me of something that?s been bothering me for some time.  The Desert Museum is outstanding in all aspects, except for the meteorite display.  I thought with the upcoming exhibition and Tucson show events, that it would be a good time to suggest some of us get together and volunteer to help the museum set up a more visible and better supplied display of meteorites (most notably Arizona meteorites).  And maybe info about the list could be incorporated in the display and help attract more people into the forum.  I?d be willing to help out with design/construction and maybe put some specimens on consignment (though I?m sure for every specimen I have there are hundreds more worthy of display).

So are there any other ?locals? who may have time to help out with something like that??  I'm sure they would welcome such interest in the museum.

Mark B.
Vail, AZ


--- On Mon, 12/14/09, Notkin <geoking at notkin.net> wrote:

> From: Notkin <geoking at notkin.net>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Tucson 2010 Show Website and News
> To: "Meteorite List" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Date: Monday, December 14, 2009, 10:16 AM
> Dear Listees:
> 
> It's hard to believe, but the 2010 Tucson Gem Show is only
> six weeks away. My 2010 gem show guide website has been
> completely updated and I hope those of you coming to Tucson
> will find it a useful resource:
> 
> http://www.tucsongemandmineralshows.net
> 
> 
> It includes the following:
> 
> - Dates, venues, and contact info for all shows
> 
> - Hotel recommendations
> 
> - Restaurant, bar and club guide
> 
> - Tips on great day trips from Tucson
> 
> - Articles, photos, and tips about the shows
> 
> 
> I continue to work with the publishers of the Tucson
> EZ-Guide and we recommend this free, full-color book as the
> best companion for the Tucson show experience. Copies can be
> picked up free from any show venue, beginning in late
> January:
> 
> http://www.tucsongemandmineralshows.net/tucson-ez-guide.htm
> 
> 
> The 11th Annual Meteor Mayhem Birthday Bash will take place
> on Friday, Feb. 5 and we are working on a rather exciting
> new venue. Details when we have them. As usual, Michael
> Blood's auction will take place on the following day.
> 
> Once again, I'll be exhibiting in Room 230 at the InnSuites
> with the fabulous Anne Black. PLEASE NOTE: the hotel name
> has changed and the InnSuites is now known as the Hotel
> Tucson City Center, for some reason. Phone number and
> address remain the same. I am also pleased to announce that
> my friend Chris Cokinos, author of the wonderful new
> meteorite book "The Fallen Sky" will be doing a book signing
> and meet-and-greet in our room that same weekend. Details
> TBA.
> 
> And FYI: The Tucson gem show is NOT moving to Las Vegas or
> anywhere else? : )
> 
> And finally the good news: I-10 highway improvements are
> finished and all downtown exits are open. So, that means
> just the *usual* traffic problems in 2010? : )
> 
> 
> 
> With best wishes,
> 
> Geoff N.
> 
> www.aerolite.org
> www.meteoritemen.com
> www.meteoriteblog.org
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com  Wed Dec 30 12:12:59 2009
From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 09:12:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Old book help needed
Message-ID: <667973.60063.qm@web46401.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Hey hope everyone is doing good.

I picked up some pretty old books at a book fair and would like some info on them if anyone can help.

First one is a "committee Print" and stamped copy of "Astronauts and Cosmonauts" report this was prepared for "the committee on science and technology US house of reps 94th congress" and is dated June 1975

Its an awesome book!!
Picture:
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/DSCF3002.jpg

I also got a really cool book "The Book of Mars" from the scientific and technical information division of the national aeronautics and space administration.

picked up a few others as gifts, going back today for more.
Any info on the first one would be great, thanks.

Greg C.




      


From lgarvie at asu.edu  Wed Dec 30 12:27:37 2009
From: lgarvie at asu.edu (Laurence Garvie)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 10:27:37 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] looking for NWA1694
In-Reply-To: <mailman.27.1262192454.50530.meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
References: <mailman.27.1262192454.50530.meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
Message-ID: <0400C0BB-C380-484C-8316-855861D6E2E9@asu.edu>

I am looking for (trade/buy) a reasonably sized piece of NWA1694. Let  
me know if you have a piece you might be willing to part with.



Thanks

Laurence Garvie
CMS
lgarvie at asu.edu


From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Wed Dec 30 13:07:58 2009
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 10:07:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA's WISE Space Telescope Jettisons Its Cover
Message-ID: <200912301807.nBUI7xh3000690@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>


http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2009-206  

NASA's WISE Space Telescope Jettisons Its Cover
Jet Propulsion Laboratory
December 29, 2009

Engineers and scientists say the maneuver went off without a hitch, and
everything is working properly. The mission's "first-light" images of
the sky will be released to the public in about a month, after the
telescope has been fully calibrated.

"The cover floated away as we planned," said William Irace, the
mission's project manager at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena,
Calif. "Our detectors are soaking up starlight for the first time."

WISE will perform the most detailed infrared survey of the entire sky to
date. Its millions of images will expose the dark side of the cosmos --
objects, such as asteroids, stars and galaxies, that are too cool or
dusty to be seen with visible light. The telescope will survey the sky
one-and-a-half times in nine months, ending its primary mission when the
coolant it needs to see infrared light evaporates away.

WISE launched on Dec. 14 from Vandenberg Air Force Base in California.
Once it was thoroughly checked out in space, it was ready to "flip its
lid."

The cover served as the top to a Thermos-like bottle that chilled the
instrument -- a 40-centimeter (16-inch) telescope and four infrared
detector arrays with one million pixels each. The instrument must be
maintained at frosty temperatures, as cold as below 8 Kelvin (minus 447
degrees Fahrenheit), to prevent it from picking up its own heat, or
infrared, glow. The cover kept everything cool on the ground by sealing
a vacuum space into the instrument chamber. In the same way that Thermos
bottles use thin vacuum layers to keep your coffee warm or iced tea
cold, the vacuum space inside WISE stopped heat from getting in. Now,
space itself will provide the instrument with an even better vacuum than
before.

The cover also protected the instrument from stray sunlight and extra
heat during launch.

At about 2:30 p.m. PST (5:30 p.m. EST), Dec. 29, engineers sent a
command to fire pyrotechnic devices that released nuts holding the cover
in place. Three springs were then free to push the cover away and into
an orbit closer to Earth than that of the spacecraft.

Scientists and engineers are now busy adjusting the rate of the
spacecraft to match the rate of a scanning mirror. To take still images
on the sky as it orbits around Earth, WISE will use a scan mirror to
counteract its motion. Light from the moving telescope's primary mirror
will be focused onto the scan mirror, which will move in the opposite
direction at the same rate. This allows the mission to take
"freeze-frame" snapshots of the sky every 11 seconds. That's about 7,500
images a day.

"It's wonderful to end the year with open WISE eyes," said Peter
Eisenhardt, the mission's project scientist at JPL. "Now we can synch
WISE up to our scan mirror and get on with the business of exploring the
infrared universe."

WISE is scheduled to begin its survey of the infrared heavens in
mid-January of 2010.

JPL manages the Wide-field Infrared Survey Explorer for NASA's Science
Mission Directorate, Washington. The principal investigator, Edward
Wright, is at UCLA. The mission was competitively selected under NASA's
Explorers Program managed by the Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt,
Md. The science instrument was built by the Space Dynamics Laboratory,
Logan, Utah, and the spacecraft was built by Ball Aerospace &
Technologies Corp., Boulder, Colo. Science operations and data
processing take place at the Infrared Processing and Analysis Center at
the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena. Caltech manages JPL
for NASA. More information is online at http://www.nasa.gov/wise and
http://wise.astro.ucla.edu .

Whitney Clavin 818-354-4673/818-354-5011
Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif.
whitney.clavin at jpl.nasa.gov

2009-206



From damoclid at yahoo.com  Wed Dec 30 14:45:49 2009
From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 11:45:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] "Lunar" for $200/g
Message-ID: <551712.48534.qm@web113618.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

I found this new listing from an ebayer with no feedback for "lunar" material found this past September

http://tinyurl.com/yge5uv9


--
Richard Kowalski
http://fullmoonphotography.net
IMCA #1081


      


From STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com  Wed Dec 30 15:09:35 2009
From: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com (STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 15:09:35 EST
Subject: [meteorite-list] Ebay listings ad
Message-ID: <cdf.61de2140.386d0d7f@aol.com>

Hi List,  Thanks for looking

Ending  tonight are several auctions of material (samples and thin 
sections) that I have  bought largely from List members over the last several years.

Many of the  samples have a 1/4 micron polish for microscope work and many 
of the samples and  thins have been featured in Meteorite Times articles or 
in images posted to my  gallery.

I also have some meteorite and meteorite related publications  listed as 
well.

Tom Phillips   eBay name:  starsinthedirt

http://shop.ebay.com/starsinthedirt/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trks
id=p4340   



From grf2 at comcast.net  Wed Dec 30 15:11:52 2009
From: grf2 at comcast.net (Jerry Flaherty)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 15:11:52 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Molten Core? Solid Core? Rocky
	Core?BlueCheese!?
References: <636421.43410.qm@web113606.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<2A50EF8F490045769DCC023DB77192E6@ASUS>
	<E3A1E876620544CB84BBF895007342B5@ATARIENGINE2>
Message-ID: <24DCBF4D108F402787A47147C50200CA@ASUS>

Ahhhhhhhh sooooooooo

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Sterling K. Webb" <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 2:44 AM
To: "Jerry Flaherty" <grf2 at comcast.net>; "Richard Kowalski" 
<damoclid at yahoo.com>; <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>; "Meteorites 
USA" <eric at meteoritesusa.com>
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Molten Core? Solid Core? Rocky 
Core?BlueCheese!?

> Here's your flowing turbulence, Jerry!
> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/12/091223222743.htm
>
>
> Sterling K. Webb
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Jerry Flaherty" <grf2 at comcast.net>
> To: "Richard Kowalski" <damoclid at yahoo.com>; 
> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>; "Meteorites USA" 
> <eric at meteoritesusa.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 10:27 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Molten Core? Solid Core? Rocky 
> Core?BlueCheese!?
>
>
>> Doesn't the magnetic field necessitate "Flowing" or "Turbulence" within 
>> the core, a result of the Earth's differential rotation?
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> From: "Richard Kowalski" <damoclid at yahoo.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 11:09 PM
>> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>; "Meteorites USA" 
>> <eric at meteoritesusa.com>
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Molten Core? Solid Core? Rocky Core? 
>> BlueCheese!?
>>
>>> Solid Iron Inner Core. Liquid Iron Outer Core.
>>>
>>> Wiki is a good read.
>>>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structure_of_the_Earth
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Richard Kowalski
>>> http://fullmoonphotography.net
>>> IMCA #1081
>>>
>>>
>>> --- On Tue, 12/29/09, Meteorites USA <eric at meteoritesusa.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> From: Meteorites USA <eric at meteoritesusa.com>
>>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Molten Core? Solid Core? Rocky Core? Blue 
>>>> Cheese!?
>>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> Date: Tuesday, December 29, 2009, 9:02 PM
>>>> OK,
>>>>
>>>> A friend and I were watching a show on Discovery or NatGeo
>>>> a couple months back. The program I think was about
>>>> asteroids, and impacts, perhaps even "How the Earth Was
>>>> Made" or another program. Don't really remember....
>>>>
>>>> The point is during the show they said very
>>>> matter-of-factly on three separate occasions that the
>>>> Earth's core was made of three different materials. One
>>>> scientist (or narrator I don't remember) said Earth
>>>> had a rocky core. Which we laughed at of course because we
>>>> all know that the Earth's core is Solid iron right? Then
>>>> another scientist confirmed our knowledge and stated what we
>>>> already knew. The Earth core is made of SOLID iron. "Of
>>>> course we said!" Now that's right... Then not 10 minutes
>>>> more into the show another person stated that the Earth had
>>>> a molten iron core.
>>>>
>>>> To make matters even more confusing the show went on to say
>>>> that the SOLID iron core was surrounded by molten iron with
>>>> lighter "rocky" materials "floating" out beyond that OK...
>>>> sounded good at the time, but....
>>>>
>>>> My question is simple. Which is it? Molten? Solid Iron? or
>>>> Solid iron surrounded by molten iron. And if it's the latter
>>>> how is this possible? Wouldn't the solid iron core NOT be
>>>> solid if it were sitting in the middle of a molten lake of
>>>> iron? Does the core cool faster than the surrounding
>>>> material, and if so how is this possible considering this
>>>> the logic that says an object cools from the outside in.
>>>>
>>>> Now, I'd like to stop there but I just read an interesting
>>>> article on National Geographic's website titled "North
>>>> Magnetic Pole Moving East Due to Core Flux" here:
>>>> http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/12/091224-north-pole-magnetic-russia-earth-core.html
>>>>
>>>> At the end of the article it flatly states:
>>>>
>>>> "...Wandering Pole -
>>>>
>>>> Geologists think Earth has a magnetic field because the
>>>> core is made up of a solid iron center surrounded by rapidly
>>>> spinning liquid metal. This creates a "dynamo" that drives
>>>> our magnetic field.
>>>>
>>>> Scientists had long suspected that, since the molten core
>>>> is constantly moving, changes in its magnetism might be
>>>> affecting the surface location of magnetic north...."
>>>>
>>>> I don't know about you, but this confuses me just a little
>>>> bit...
>>>>
>>>> Can anyone please clear this up for me? And perhaps the
>>>> rest of the world? ;)
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Eric Wichman
>>>> Meteorites USA
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


From oxytropidoceras at cox.net  Wed Dec 30 16:50:06 2009
From: oxytropidoceras at cox.net (Paul Heinrich)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 15:50:06 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Russia looks to divert asteroid from Earth
Message-ID: <4B3BCB0E.2050302@cox.net>

Russia looks to divert asteroid from Earth
Seattle Post Intelligencer,

http://blog.seattlepi.com/aerospace/archives/189567.asp

"Russia is erring on the side of caution,
Perminov said in the report: "Better to
spend a few hundred million dollars to
create a system for preventing a collision
than to wait until it happens and hundreds
of thousands of people are killed.""

Giant asteroid to pass earth at close range
Toronto Star, Cathal Kelly,
 http://www.thestar.com/news/sciencetech/article/744268--giant-asteroid-to-pass-earth-at-close-range

NASA Refines Asteroid Apophis' Path Toward
Earth, NASA, 
http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2009/oct/HQ_09-232_Apophis_Update.html

Yours,

Paul H.


From oxytropidoceras at cox.net  Wed Dec 30 16:53:29 2009
From: oxytropidoceras at cox.net (Paul Heinrich)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 15:53:29 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA considers missions to Venus, moon and asteroid
Message-ID: <4B3BCBD9.4040601@cox.net>

NASA considers missions to Venus, moon and asteroid
by Stephen Clark, Spaceflight Now, December 29, 2009

http://www.spaceflightnow.com/news/n0912/29newfrontiers/

Yours,

Paul H.


From oxytropidoceras at cox.net  Wed Dec 30 17:01:22 2009
From: oxytropidoceras at cox.net (Paul Heinrich)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 16:01:22 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Dreamtime Meteor Impact Found Near Alice Springs,
	Australia
Message-ID: <4B3BCDB2.6010203@cox.net>

Dreamtime Meteor Impact Found with Google Earth
Steve Nerlich, December 30th, 2009, Universe Today

http://www.universetoday.com/2009/12/30/dreamtime-meteor-impact-found-with-google-earth-2/

"His suspicions were confirmed when he visited the
site with a team of geophysicists and astrophysicists,
who found evidence that a popular tourist location in
the national park called Palm Valley contains the
remains of an ancient impact crater.

"We found shocked quartz, which is only produced by
a substantial impact and its presence in the rock samples
and the morphology of the structure are the major
indicators that Palm Valley is a crater,? Mr Hamacher said."

Google, Dreaming lead to ancient crater by Deborah
Smith, Sydney Morning Herald, December 28, 2009

http://www.smh.com.au/technology/sci-tech/google-dreaming-lead-to-ancient-crater-20091227-lg9e.html

Google Earth confirms Dreamtime meteor legend by Annie
Sanson, Northern Territory News, December 30, 2009

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/breaking-news/google-earth-confirms-dreamtime-meteor-legend/story-e6frf7jx-1225814665715

Mystery solved by Dream by Annie Sanson, Northern
Territory News, December 30, 2009

http://www.ntnews.com.au/article/2009/12/30/112341_ntnews.html

Yours,

Paul H.


From majbaermann at web.de  Wed Dec 30 17:31:31 2009
From: majbaermann at web.de (=?Windows-1252?Q?Matthias_B=E4rmann?=)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 23:31:31 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] Dreamtime Meteor Impact Found Near Alice
	Springs, Australia
References: <4B3BCDB2.6010203@cox.net>
Message-ID: <2EFC8F58AC1B4CC0B785F3DFF881BFAC@thinkcentre>

Thank you, Paul, for sharing this with us: very interesting indeed! I've 
always tried to find out more regarding a possible meteorite-knowledge of 
the Australian aboriginies, but could only find very few information 
(Henbury f.e.). Now, this is new for me, wonderful.

Best regards,

Matthias B.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Paul Heinrich" <oxytropidoceras at cox.net>
To: "Meteorite List" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 11:01 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Dreamtime Meteor Impact Found Near Alice 
Springs,Australia


Dreamtime Meteor Impact Found with Google Earth
Steve Nerlich, December 30th, 2009, Universe Today

http://www.universetoday.com/2009/12/30/dreamtime-meteor-impact-found-with-google-earth-2/

"His suspicions were confirmed when he visited the
site with a team of geophysicists and astrophysicists,
who found evidence that a popular tourist location in
the national park called Palm Valley contains the
remains of an ancient impact crater.

"We found shocked quartz, which is only produced by
a substantial impact and its presence in the rock samples
and the morphology of the structure are the major
indicators that Palm Valley is a crater,? Mr Hamacher said."

Google, Dreaming lead to ancient crater by Deborah
Smith, Sydney Morning Herald, December 28, 2009

http://www.smh.com.au/technology/sci-tech/google-dreaming-lead-to-ancient-crater-20091227-lg9e.html

Google Earth confirms Dreamtime meteor legend by Annie
Sanson, Northern Territory News, December 30, 2009

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/breaking-news/google-earth-confirms-dreamtime-meteor-legend/story-e6frf7jx-1225814665715

Mystery solved by Dream by Annie Sanson, Northern
Territory News, December 30, 2009

http://www.ntnews.com.au/article/2009/12/30/112341_ntnews.html

Yours,

Paul H.
______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From damoclid at yahoo.com  Wed Dec 30 18:28:11 2009
From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 15:28:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Dreamtime Meteor Impact Found Near Alice
	Springs, Australia
In-Reply-To: <4B3BCDB2.6010203@cox.net>
Message-ID: <213546.62300.qm@web113603.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

It would have been nice if they had included coordinates or a link to a Google Earth file.

Since they did not, I found the location. For those of you using Google Earth, open this file using GE and it will take you to the candidate crater.

http://fullmoonphotography.net/images/Meteorites/proposed_dreamtime_crater.kmz

http://tinyurl.com/yjewx8x


--
Richard Kowalski
http://fullmoonphotography.net
IMCA #1081


--- On Wed, 12/30/09, Paul Heinrich <oxytropidoceras at cox.net> wrote:

> From: Paul Heinrich <oxytropidoceras at cox.net>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Dreamtime Meteor Impact Found Near Alice Springs, Australia
> Dreamtime Meteor Impact Found with
> Google Earth
> Steve Nerlich, December 30th, 2009, Universe Today
> 
> http://www.universetoday.com/2009/12/30/dreamtime-meteor-impact-found-with-google-earth-2/
> 
> "His suspicions were confirmed when he visited the
> site with a team of geophysicists and astrophysicists,
> who found evidence that a popular tourist location in
> the national park called Palm Valley contains the
> remains of an ancient impact crater.
> 
> "We found shocked quartz, which is only produced by
> a substantial impact and its presence in the rock samples
> and the morphology of the structure are the major
> indicators that Palm Valley is a crater,? Mr Hamacher
> said."
> 
> Google, Dreaming lead to ancient crater by Deborah
> Smith, Sydney Morning Herald, December 28, 2009
> 
> http://www.smh.com.au/technology/sci-tech/google-dreaming-lead-to-ancient-crater-20091227-lg9e.html
> 
> Google Earth confirms Dreamtime meteor legend by Annie
> Sanson, Northern Territory News, December 30, 2009
> 
> http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/breaking-news/google-earth-confirms-dreamtime-meteor-legend/story-e6frf7jx-1225814665715
> 
> Mystery solved by Dream by Annie Sanson, Northern
> Territory News, December 30, 2009
> 
> http://www.ntnews.com.au/article/2009/12/30/112341_ntnews.html
> 
> Yours,
> 
> Paul H.
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      


From dfpens01 at yahoo.com  Wed Dec 30 18:28:50 2009
From: dfpens01 at yahoo.com (David Pensenstadler)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 15:28:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] "Lunar" for $200/g
In-Reply-To: <551712.48534.qm@web113618.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <370713.49493.qm@web112313.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Did you also notice that he wants $50 to ship it!?

--- On Wed, 12/30/09, Richard Kowalski <damoclid at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Richard Kowalski <damoclid at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] "Lunar" for $200/g
> To: "meteorite list" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Date: Wednesday, December 30, 2009, 2:45 PM
> I found this new listing from an
> ebayer with no feedback for "lunar" material found this past
> September
> 
> http://tinyurl.com/yge5uv9
> 
> 
> --
> Richard Kowalski
> http://fullmoonphotography.net
> IMCA #1081
> 
> 
> ? ? ? 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      


From damoclid at yahoo.com  Wed Dec 30 18:40:35 2009
From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 15:40:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Dreamtime Meteor Impact Found Near Alice
	Springs, Australia
In-Reply-To: <213546.62300.qm@web113603.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <663161.40476.qm@web113608.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

And before those of you who don't use Google Earth ask,

here's the link for Google Maps:

http://tinyurl.com/yldl3sj


--
Richard Kowalski
http://fullmoonphotography.net
IMCA #1081


--- On Wed, 12/30/09, Richard Kowalski <damoclid at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Richard Kowalski <damoclid at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Dreamtime Meteor Impact Found Near Alice Springs, Australia
> To: "Meteorite List" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>, mpml at yahoo.com
> Date: Wednesday, December 30, 2009, 4:28 PM
> It would have been nice if they had
> included coordinates or a link to a Google Earth file.
> 
> Since they did not, I found the location. For those of you
> using Google Earth, open this file using GE and it will take
> you to the candidate crater.
> 
> http://fullmoonphotography.net/images/Meteorites/proposed_dreamtime_crater.kmz
> 
> http://tinyurl.com/yjewx8x
> 
> 
> --
> Richard Kowalski
> http://fullmoonphotography.net
> IMCA #1081
> 
> 
> --- On Wed, 12/30/09, Paul Heinrich <oxytropidoceras at cox.net>
> wrote:
> 
> > From: Paul Heinrich <oxytropidoceras at cox.net>
> > Subject: [meteorite-list] Dreamtime Meteor Impact
> Found Near Alice Springs, Australia
> > Dreamtime Meteor Impact Found with
> > Google Earth
> > Steve Nerlich, December 30th, 2009, Universe Today
> > 
> > http://www.universetoday.com/2009/12/30/dreamtime-meteor-impact-found-with-google-earth-2/
> > 
> > "His suspicions were confirmed when he visited the
> > site with a team of geophysicists and
> astrophysicists,
> > who found evidence that a popular tourist location in
> > the national park called Palm Valley contains the
> > remains of an ancient impact crater.
> > 
> > "We found shocked quartz, which is only produced by
> > a substantial impact and its presence in the rock
> samples
> > and the morphology of the structure are the major
> > indicators that Palm Valley is a crater,? Mr
> Hamacher
> > said."
> > 
> > Google, Dreaming lead to ancient crater by Deborah
> > Smith, Sydney Morning Herald, December 28, 2009
> > 
> > http://www.smh.com.au/technology/sci-tech/google-dreaming-lead-to-ancient-crater-20091227-lg9e.html
> > 
> > Google Earth confirms Dreamtime meteor legend by
> Annie
> > Sanson, Northern Territory News, December 30, 2009
> > 
> > http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/breaking-news/google-earth-confirms-dreamtime-meteor-legend/story-e6frf7jx-1225814665715
> > 
> > Mystery solved by Dream by Annie Sanson, Northern
> > Territory News, December 30, 2009
> > 
> > http://www.ntnews.com.au/article/2009/12/30/112341_ntnews.html
> > 
> > Yours,
> > 
> > Paul H.
> > ______________________________________________
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> > 
> 
> 
> ? ? ? 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      


From abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com  Wed Dec 30 18:42:48 2009
From: abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com (Abdelaziz Alhyane)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 15:42:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] "Lunar" for $200/g
In-Reply-To: <370713.49493.qm@web112313.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <661813.92302.qm@web45409.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Didn't you notice he is from Tindouf, high desert with no internet.
Cheers
Aziz

--- On Wed, 12/30/09, David Pensenstadler <dfpens01 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: David Pensenstadler <dfpens01 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] "Lunar" for $200/g
> To: "meteorite list" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>, "Richard Kowalski" <damoclid at yahoo.com>
> Date: Wednesday, December 30, 2009, 3:28 PM
> Did you also notice that he wants $50
> to ship it!?
> 
> --- On Wed, 12/30/09, Richard Kowalski <damoclid at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > From: Richard Kowalski <damoclid at yahoo.com>
> > Subject: [meteorite-list] "Lunar" for $200/g
> > To: "meteorite list" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> > Date: Wednesday, December 30, 2009, 2:45 PM
> > I found this new listing from an
> > ebayer with no feedback for "lunar" material found
> this past
> > September
> > 
> > http://tinyurl.com/yge5uv9
> > 
> > 
> > --
> > Richard Kowalski
> > http://fullmoonphotography.net
> > IMCA #1081
> > 
> > 
> > ? ? ? 
> > ______________________________________________
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> > 
> 
> 
> ? ? ? 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      



From abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com  Wed Dec 30 18:48:51 2009
From: abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com (Abdelaziz Alhyane)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 15:48:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] "Lunar" for $200/g
In-Reply-To: <370713.49493.qm@web112313.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <786716.17482.qm@web45408.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Didn't you notice he is from Tindouf, high desert with no internet.
Cheers
Aziz

--- On Wed, 12/30/09, David Pensenstadler <dfpens01 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: David Pensenstadler <dfpens01 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] "Lunar" for $200/g
> To: "meteorite list" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>, "Richard Kowalski" <damoclid at yahoo.com>
> Date: Wednesday, December 30, 2009, 3:28 PM
> Did you also notice that he wants $50
> to ship it!?
> 
> --- On Wed, 12/30/09, Richard Kowalski <damoclid at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > From: Richard Kowalski <damoclid at yahoo.com>
> > Subject: [meteorite-list] "Lunar" for $200/g
> > To: "meteorite list" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> > Date: Wednesday, December 30, 2009, 2:45 PM
> > I found this new listing from an
> > ebayer with no feedback for "lunar" material found
> this past
> > September
> > 
> > http://tinyurl.com/yge5uv9
> > 
> > 
> > --
> > Richard Kowalski
> > http://fullmoonphotography.net
> > IMCA #1081
> > 
> > 
> > ? ? ? 
> > ______________________________________________
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> > 
> 
> 
> ? ? ? 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      



From abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com  Wed Dec 30 19:02:25 2009
From: abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com (Abdelaziz Alhyane)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 16:02:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] "Lunar" for $200/g
In-Reply-To: <370713.49493.qm@web112313.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <391204.23271.qm@web45408.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Didn't you notice he is from Tindouf, high desert with no internet.
Cheers
Aziz

--- On Wed, 12/30/09, David Pensenstadler <dfpens01 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: David Pensenstadler <dfpens01 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] "Lunar" for $200/g
> To: "meteorite list" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>, "Richard Kowalski" <damoclid at yahoo.com>
> Date: Wednesday, December 30, 2009, 3:28 PM
> Did you also notice that he wants $50
> to ship it!?
> 
> --- On Wed, 12/30/09, Richard Kowalski <damoclid at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > From: Richard Kowalski <damoclid at yahoo.com>
> > Subject: [meteorite-list] "Lunar" for $200/g
> > To: "meteorite list" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> > Date: Wednesday, December 30, 2009, 2:45 PM
> > I found this new listing from an
> > ebayer with no feedback for "lunar" material found
> this past
> > September
> > 
> > http://tinyurl.com/yge5uv9
> > 
> > 
> > --
> > Richard Kowalski
> > http://fullmoonphotography.net
> > IMCA #1081
> > 
> > 
> > ? ? ? 
> > ______________________________________________
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> > 
> 
> 
> ? ? ? 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      



From deanbessey at yahoo.com  Wed Dec 30 19:07:48 2009
From: deanbessey at yahoo.com (dean bessey)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 16:07:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] "Lunar" for $200/g
In-Reply-To: <786716.17482.qm@web45408.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <585541.55954.qm@web56106.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

I am not going to make any comment on wither it is genuine or not but for purposes of this email I will assume that it is genuine. Assuming its genuine $50 for shipping (Fed Ex?) dont sound excessive. I couldent ship anything from here fed ex for $50 for example.
Note also that seller doesnt appear to be very ebay savvy and probably could use a tutorial on using ebay.
He has the whole 256 gram meteorite started at $200 but from his description it is obvious that he wants $200 a gram (Actually a starting price of over $50,000) but he has actually started the auction at $200 for the whole thing (Ebay rules wont let you list it the way he wants to).
Somebody (Aziz in morocco maybe) might want to help the poor guy out and explain to him how to list things the way that he wants to on ebay.
Cheers
DEAN
PS:
Of course A little more detailed description explaining why he thinks that it is actually a Lunar might be a little helpful to but I wont get into that

--- On Wed, 30/12/09, Abdelaziz Alhyane <abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Abdelaziz Alhyane <abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] "Lunar" for $200/g
> To: "meteorite list" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>, "Richard Kowalski" <damoclid at yahoo.com>, "David Pensenstadler" <dfpens01 at yahoo.com>
> Received: Wednesday, 30 December, 2009, 3:48 PM
> Didn't you notice he is from Tindouf,
> high desert with no internet.
> Cheers
> Aziz
> 
> --- On Wed, 12/30/09, David Pensenstadler <dfpens01 at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > From: David Pensenstadler <dfpens01 at yahoo.com>
> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] "Lunar" for $200/g
> > To: "meteorite list" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>,
> "Richard Kowalski" <damoclid at yahoo.com>
> > Date: Wednesday, December 30, 2009, 3:28 PM
> > Did you also notice that he wants $50
> > to ship it!?
> > 
> > --- On Wed, 12/30/09, Richard Kowalski <damoclid at yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
> > 
> > > From: Richard Kowalski <damoclid at yahoo.com>
> > > Subject: [meteorite-list] "Lunar" for $200/g
> > > To: "meteorite list" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> > > Date: Wednesday, December 30, 2009, 2:45 PM
> > > I found this new listing from an
> > > ebayer with no feedback for "lunar" material
> found
> > this past
> > > September
> > > 
> > > http://tinyurl.com/yge5uv9
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --
> > > Richard Kowalski
> > > http://fullmoonphotography.net
> > > IMCA #1081
> > > 
> > > 
> > >       
> > > ______________________________________________
> > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> > > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> >       
> > ______________________________________________
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> > 
> 
> 
>       
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      



From ensoramanda at ntlworld.com  Wed Dec 30 19:40:59 2009
From: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com (ensoramanda at ntlworld.com)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 0:40:59 +0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] Dreamtime Meteor Impact Found Near Alice
 Springs, Australia
In-Reply-To: <4B3BCDB2.6010203@cox.net>
Message-ID: <20091231004059.16YJ6.674213.root@web01-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com>

Hi Paul,

Thanks for that info.

A few years back I spent the night just yards from it in a swag on the banks of Palm Valley...would you believe it? On route from touring round Gosse Bluff.

No more news appeared about the Wisbech daytime fireball on the 19th by the way...but chasing it up.

Graham, UK

---- Paul Heinrich <oxytropidoceras at cox.net> wrote: 
> Dreamtime Meteor Impact Found with Google Earth
> Steve Nerlich, December 30th, 2009, Universe Today
> 
> http://www.universetoday.com/2009/12/30/dreamtime-meteor-impact-found-with-google-earth-2/
> 
> "His suspicions were confirmed when he visited the
> site with a team of geophysicists and astrophysicists,
> who found evidence that a popular tourist location in
> the national park called Palm Valley contains the
> remains of an ancient impact crater.
> 
> "We found shocked quartz, which is only produced by
> a substantial impact and its presence in the rock samples
> and the morphology of the structure are the major
> indicators that Palm Valley is a crater,? Mr Hamacher said."
> 
> Google, Dreaming lead to ancient crater by Deborah
> Smith, Sydney Morning Herald, December 28, 2009
> 
> http://www.smh.com.au/technology/sci-tech/google-dreaming-lead-to-ancient-crater-20091227-lg9e.html
> 
> Google Earth confirms Dreamtime meteor legend by Annie
> Sanson, Northern Territory News, December 30, 2009
> 
> http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/breaking-news/google-earth-confirms-dreamtime-meteor-legend/story-e6frf7jx-1225814665715
> 
> Mystery solved by Dream by Annie Sanson, Northern
> Territory News, December 30, 2009
> 
> http://www.ntnews.com.au/article/2009/12/30/112341_ntnews.html
> 
> Yours,
> 
> Paul H.
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From gmhupe at htn.net  Wed Dec 30 20:10:39 2009
From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 20:10:39 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] "Lunar" for $200/g
References: <585541.55954.qm@web56106.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <0115A772FE8D479BAABBFFC30B36DCA1@Gregor>

Hi Dean and List,

I see no place on this rock where a sample was taken for analysis. Sounds 
like another "unclassified Stone" and wishful thinking by the seller. Buyer 
Beware!

Best regards,
Greg

====================
Greg Hupe
The Hupe Collection
NaturesVault (eBay)
gmhupe at htn.net
www.LunarRock.com
IMCA 3163
====================
Click here for my current eBay auctions: 
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "dean bessey" <deanbessey at yahoo.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 7:07 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] "Lunar" for $200/g


>I am not going to make any comment on wither it is genuine or not but for 
>purposes of this email I will assume that it is genuine. Assuming its 
>genuine $50 for shipping (Fed Ex?) dont sound excessive. I couldent ship 
>anything from here fed ex for $50 for example.
> Note also that seller doesnt appear to be very ebay savvy and probably 
> could use a tutorial on using ebay.
> He has the whole 256 gram meteorite started at $200 but from his 
> description it is obvious that he wants $200 a gram (Actually a starting 
> price of over $50,000) but he has actually started the auction at $200 for 
> the whole thing (Ebay rules wont let you list it the way he wants to).
> Somebody (Aziz in morocco maybe) might want to help the poor guy out and 
> explain to him how to list things the way that he wants to on ebay.
> Cheers
> DEAN
> PS:
> Of course A little more detailed description explaining why he thinks that 
> it is actually a Lunar might be a little helpful to but I wont get into 
> that
>
> --- On Wed, 30/12/09, Abdelaziz Alhyane <abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com> 
> wrote:
>
>> From: Abdelaziz Alhyane <abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com>
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] "Lunar" for $200/g
>> To: "meteorite list" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>, "Richard 
>> Kowalski" <damoclid at yahoo.com>, "David Pensenstadler" 
>> <dfpens01 at yahoo.com>
>> Received: Wednesday, 30 December, 2009, 3:48 PM
>> Didn't you notice he is from Tindouf,
>> high desert with no internet.
>> Cheers
>> Aziz
>>
>> --- On Wed, 12/30/09, David Pensenstadler <dfpens01 at yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > From: David Pensenstadler <dfpens01 at yahoo.com>
>> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] "Lunar" for $200/g
>> > To: "meteorite list" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>,
>> "Richard Kowalski" <damoclid at yahoo.com>
>> > Date: Wednesday, December 30, 2009, 3:28 PM
>> > Did you also notice that he wants $50
>> > to ship it!?
>> >
>> > --- On Wed, 12/30/09, Richard Kowalski <damoclid at yahoo.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > > From: Richard Kowalski <damoclid at yahoo.com>
>> > > Subject: [meteorite-list] "Lunar" for $200/g
>> > > To: "meteorite list" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>> > > Date: Wednesday, December 30, 2009, 2:45 PM
>> > > I found this new listing from an
>> > > ebayer with no feedback for "lunar" material
>> found
>> > this past
>> > > September
>> > >
>> > > http://tinyurl.com/yge5uv9
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > Richard Kowalski
>> > > http://fullmoonphotography.net
>> > > IMCA #1081
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > ______________________________________________
>> > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> > > Meteorite-list mailing list
>> > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ______________________________________________
>> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> > Meteorite-list mailing list
>> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 




From mlblood at cox.net  Wed Dec 30 20:13:15 2009
From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael Blood)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 17:13:15 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD- Ash Creek House hitter Entire HAMMER STONE
In-Reply-To: <69B8F00F-4E05-4781-83F6-89113DBBD90D@mac.com>
Message-ID: <C7613AAB.A42D%mlblood@cox.net>

Greetings all,
        I now own the only House Hitter hammer stone from the
Ash Creek fall. If you recall, there were two grave yard stones,
One damn stone, one barn stone and one house stone.

        ( The barn stone was coupled with the stone that fell at
the feet of the barn owner who at first thought his girlfriend
Was teasing him by tossing a rock near him - The two stones
Which together totaled about 51grams, sold in an ad hoc auction
by phone. The Winning bidder paid $4,600 for the two. The seller
Would not sell either separately).

    While I certainly would love to keep this entire house hitter,
My finances demand I sell it. I could make more cutting it up,
but it is one of the more impressive specimens I have seen and
Will be heartbroken if I have to "slice and dice" this beauty. Note
The embedded grit of the roof shingle on the "face" of the stone.
        It is 124 gr. See it here from 4 different angles:

http://michaelbloodmeteorites.com/Conglomerate.jpg

        Serious offers only, please. Off line, of course.
        Best wishes, Michael




From ensoramanda at ntlworld.com  Wed Dec 30 20:49:18 2009
From: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com (ensoramanda at ntlworld.com)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 1:49:18 +0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Fall Or Not?
In-Reply-To: <4B3A7192.2070003@meteoritesusa.com>
Message-ID: <20091231014918.CC12F.297770.root@web07-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com>

Just this...

Alastair McBeath, Director of the SPA's Meteor Section, has provided the
following update (26th December 2009):

Sightings of the spectacular daylight fireball on December 19 have been received from places in Leicestershire, Lincolnshire, Norfolk and Cambridgeshire so far, though as many witnesses were on the road at the time, few people managed to give sufficient information to allow a reasonable trajectory for the event to be estimated. The fireball was probably high above the North Sea off eastern England and perhaps partly over northeastern East Anglia too. Of those observers who were able to suggest a sky-path for the meteor, two described it as possibly angled somewhere between south-north to southeast-northwest, but four others indicated it more likely lay between north-south to northwest-southeast instead, and at present it is not clear which is the more probable. It seems to have remained visible for about 3 to 3.5 seconds from the majority of estimates, and was almost certainly well in excess of full Moon brilliance at its brightest to be seen so widely in the near-noon daytime. Various colours were suggested by different witnesses, always a subjective topic anyway, but most (five people) favoured a very bright silvery white, while one each preferred yellow, orange-yellow or red-yellow for the main fireball. One witness spotted some slight fragmentation very late in the flight, but two other people saw none at all (this can sometimes depend on the angle from which the meteor's path is viewed). One observer in north Norfolk, plausibly the person closest to the possible trajectory, suggested a faint simultaneous sound may have occurred as the fireball flared to its near-terminal maximum brightness. The General Chat Forum has a topic featuring some of the initial notices and subsequent discussion regarding this fireball, including links to some online media coverage (but sadly no images)........

Promising but very near the coast so could well be in the North Sea again...unless we can pin down some more accurate observations to show the trajectory...or somebody reports a hole in their roof/car/dog/raindeer!!!

Graham, nr Barwell, UK...about 70 miles from the sightings


---- Meteorites USA <eric at meteoritesusa.com> wrote: 
> Hi List,
> 
> I haven't really been following this but here's another report about the 
> fireball back on Dec 19th over Wisbech, Cambridgeshire UK
> http://www.fenlandcitizen.co.uk/news/Meteorite-falls-over-Wisbech.5943609.jp
> 
> Any other word on this fireball?
> 
> Regards,
> Eric Wichman
> Meteorites USA
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From michael at rocksfromspace.org  Wed Dec 30 23:01:08 2009
From: michael at rocksfromspace.org (Michael Johnson)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 20:01:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December 31,
	2009
Message-ID: <1001291655.257561262232068370.JavaMail.root@mbs1.homesteadmail.com>

http://www.rocksfromspace.org/December_31_2009.html



From erikfwebb at msn.com  Thu Dec 31 03:54:46 2009
From: erikfwebb at msn.com (Erik Fisler)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 01:54:46 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December
 31, 2009
In-Reply-To: <1001291655.257561262232068370.JavaMail.root@mbs1.homesteadmail.com>
References: <1001291655.257561262232068370.JavaMail.root@mbs1.homesteadmail.com>
Message-ID: <COL119-W37CBA4530F59906E45C1B8A4780@phx.gbl>


Beautiful picture from Impactika! I'd like to order a poster size print of it for my room! lol
? Thank you Michael for bringing us RFSPOD.

[Erik]

----------------------------------------
> Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 20:01:08 -0800
> From: michael at rocksfromspace.org
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December 31, 2009
>
> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/December_31_2009.html
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
 		 	   		  

From darryl at dof3.com  Thu Dec 31 05:57:03 2009
From: darryl at dof3.com (Darryl Pitt)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 05:57:03 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] NEW YEARS GREETINGS FROM TIMES SQUARE
Message-ID: <1F0B73FD-FEEF-42CA-98DB-62BF9674093A@dof3.com>



A brief note to wish everyone a healthy, happy and sweet....and  
memorably wondrous New Year 2010.


Warmly,

Darryl






From gmhupe at htn.net  Thu Dec 31 07:08:07 2009
From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 07:08:07 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Happy New Year!!
Message-ID: <E6374A937CB44A2C90108A356660C328@Gregor>

Hello All,

I would like to wish everyone good Health, Wealth & Wisdom in the New Year. 
I appreciate all who have worked with me in the past years.

Best regards,
Greg

====================
Greg Hupe
The Hupe Collection
NaturesVault (eBay)
gmhupe at htn.net
www.LunarRock.com
IMCA 3163
====================
Click here for my current eBay auctions: 
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault




From cmb62 at columbus.rr.com  Thu Dec 31 07:30:17 2009
From: cmb62 at columbus.rr.com (Charley)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 07:30:17 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] China's Antarctic expedition team finds first
	meteorite at Glove Mountain
Message-ID: <7CB1F9EF602F4110817F35C991D3C305@HAL1>

 Hi everyone,

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2009-12/31/content_12733922.htm


And Happy New Year!

Best regards,

Charley

"Well, squids don't work. Hey! Let's
  try elephants !"

                    Hannibal 




From geoking at notkin.net  Thu Dec 31 08:36:11 2009
From: geoking at notkin.net (Notkin)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 06:36:11 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] New Year's Greetings + "Meteorite Men" News
Message-ID: <C3740F48-D18A-4220-813E-CFB3674D0192@notkin.net>

Dear Listees:

2009 was a great year for meteorites! Congrats to all the researchers,  
hunters, collectors, dealers and accidental finders who helped recover  
so many new space rocks.

Steve and I have wrapped up our last expedition of the year, and we  
have good news about "Meteorite Men" the series. The first of six new  
one-hour episodes will premiere on Science Channel on Wednesday,  
January 20 at 9 pm Eastern, immediately before the new season premiere  
of "Mantracker." Our friends at Discovery Networks have produced two  
promo trailers for the show. The first, "Legend," began airing last  
night on Science. It includes some clips from the show, some great  
animation, and unveils our cool new logo. The second spot, "Crater,"  
was filmed less than two weeks ago in Nevada, and will debut tomorrow.

For those of you who don't get Science Channel, our pilot episode will  
air on January 19 on Discovery, and that's exciting news for us. No  
info yet about an international release, but it'll happen.

If you'd like to be kept in the loop regarding the latest "Meteorite  
Men" news, please connect with us on Twitter:  http://twitter.com/MeteoriteMen 
    I regularly post updates along with exclusive behind-the-scenes  
location photos.

Wishing everyone all the best for a great start to 2010 and I'm  
looking forward to seeing many of you in sunny Tucson in just a few  
weeks.


Cheers,

Geoff

www.aerolite.org
www.meteoritemen.com
www.meteoriteblog.org


From geoking at notkin.net  Thu Dec 31 09:04:56 2009
From: geoking at notkin.net (Notkin)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 07:04:56 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] [AD] Buzzard Coulee is Here!
Message-ID: <7DAA4B50-25B6-41D0-A786-D73D4235D823@notkin.net>

Dear Listees:

My Buzzard hunting partner, Lisa Marie Morrison, and I received the  
best possible New Year's present a few days ago. Our Buzzard Coulee  
stones arrived safely in Arizona, complete with official Canadian  
Government export permits. Ours is the first batch of Buzzards to  
receive clearance for export from Canada. Thanks to our Canadian  
friends who generously helped us navigate the rather tortuous export  
process  : )

For the past few days we've been busy filling Buzzard orders from my  
private customer list, but we still have a number of excellent fusion  
crusted stones available. Every piece purchased from us will be  
accompanied by exclusive documentation and photos. If you are  
interested in pricing and availability please contact me off-List. We  
will be keeping some stones for our private collections, and any not  
sold during the next few days will be added to my sale catalogue on www.aerolite.org 
   We will also have some of our best finds on display in our showroom  
during the Tucson gem show: #230 at the InnSuites (AKA Hotel Tucson  
City Center).

My private customer list always receives advance notice of new  
meteorite material, and special sales. If you'd like to be added to  
that list, please contact me privately.

Photo journal of our Buzzard adventure:  http://www.aerolite.org/expeditions/bc/buzzard-coulee-meteorite.htm


Thanks for reading and best wishes from us,

Geoff N.

www.aerolite.org
www.meteoritemen.com
www.meteoriteblog.org


From pierremariepele at yahoo.fr  Thu Dec 31 10:02:03 2009
From: pierremariepele at yahoo.fr (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Pel=E9_Pierre-Marie?=)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 15:02:03 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD> Tafassasset : 982 grams,
	on ebay.  Price reduced
Message-ID: <125657.94328.qm@web23007.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hello List members, and best wishes for 2010.

My 982 grams Tafassasset didn't sell on ebay so I decided to drastically reduce its price. 

Now I believe it's a fair and cool price for this new year so bid quickly : http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110475363049

Pierre




      



From damoclid at yahoo.com  Thu Dec 31 10:24:09 2009
From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 07:24:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] New Year's Greetings + "Meteorite Men" News
In-Reply-To: <C3740F48-D18A-4220-813E-CFB3674D0192@notkin.net>
Message-ID: <202014.8673.qm@web113609.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>


--- On Thu, 12/31/09, Notkin <geoking at notkin.net> wrote:

> ... The first, "Legend," began airing
> last night on Science. It includes some clips from the show,
> some great animation, and unveils our cool new logo.


I just turned on the Science Channel and caught the tail end of it during the last commercial break and saw the entire thing on the next commercial break 10 minutes later.

Looking forward to seeing Episode 1.

I'm sure it'll be the talk of The Show a month from now!

A great new year to all of you and I too wish you all health, happiness and a wealth of new rocks.


--
Richard Kowalski
http://fullmoonphotography.net
IMCA #1081


      


From stanleygregr at hotmail.com  Thu Dec 31 11:26:26 2009
From: stanleygregr at hotmail.com (Greg Stanley)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 08:26:26 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Happy New Year
Message-ID: <SNT117-W173A9840ECD8FFABCCFF8AD2780@phx.gbl>


Everyone:

I wish all a Happy new Year and a save and prosperous 2010. I just reserved my room in Tucson, so I'm looking forward to see you there.

Greg S.
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222986/direct/01/

From mccartney at blackbearddata.com  Thu Dec 31 14:24:33 2009
From: mccartney at blackbearddata.com (McCartney Taylor)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 13:24:33 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Buzzard Coulee Permitting Snafu
Message-ID: <7b3de7a3$52fc0b09$756f9096$@com>

Sonny and I were at Buzzard Coul?e the week it fell, as you all know. We recovered a good number of stones before the big snow hit.  Permits were then applied for.

I returned as the snow melted in April. I alone recovered hundreds of stones, giving half to the landowner, I still had over 2kg. These post winter stones were submitted for exportation as well. 

The Export Tribunal repeatedly delayed export and lumped the early permit with the later permit, then delayed both again and  lumped those permit apps with other export apps from other hunters.

Finally, the Tribunal noted that there was a good deal of material so the very late permit apps are apparently getting approved with no hold-back delays.  Hence, Geoff Notkin and others have received their stones.

Ya, ya, I know it is not fair, but that's how the cookie crumbles.

As best I can tell, my stones will be arriving in March 2010.   I recovered many that have orientation, most complete individuals 10-30g, and a few 50,100, 150 g stones. They will be available on www.outofabluesky.com at that time.

The in situ stone pics and photos of the trip are on picassa 
http://picasaweb.google.com/mccartneytaylor



From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Thu Dec 31 14:41:58 2009
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 11:41:58 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Science Channel's Top Ten Meteorites Of All Time
Message-ID: <4B3CFE86.1020707@meteoritesusa.com>

Hi All,

Did anyone read the Science Channel's Top Ten Meteorites of All Time list?
http://science.discovery.com/top-ten/2009/meteors/meteors.html

My article on MeteoriteBlog.com 
http://meteoriteblog.com/top-ten-meteorites-of-all-time-science-channel/

Opinions?

Regards,
Eric Wichman
Meteorites USA
Meteorite Blog
Meteorite Wiki


From fujmon at mac.com  Thu Dec 31 14:59:29 2009
From: fujmon at mac.com (Gary Fujihara)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 09:59:29 -1000
Subject: [meteorite-list] Happy New Year
Message-ID: <8B11C5F9-D78F-4CFF-949E-4110F65601BD@mac.com>

Aloha listees,

>From voggy (volcanic fog) Hilo, Hawai'i, I would like to extend wishes for a Happy New Year to all of the meteorite hunters, collectors and dealers around this big blue planet.  Rock On!

Gary Fujihara
Big Kahuna Meteorites (IMCA#1693)
105 Puhili Place, Hilo, Hawai'i 96720
http://shop.ebay.com/fujmon/m.html  (now visible on ebay Global Hub)
(808) 640-9161



From meteoritekid at gmail.com  Thu Dec 31 15:10:30 2009
From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 12:10:30 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Science Channel's Top Ten Meteorites Of All
	Time
In-Reply-To: <4B3CFE86.1020707@meteoritesusa.com>
References: <4B3CFE86.1020707@meteoritesusa.com>
Message-ID: <93aaac890912311210m4908de1dq624be9d1f69c8215@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Eric, All,
We covered this on the list a while back - making such a list is
pointless, because it depends on the criteria being most valued -
current scientific importance, historical scientific importance,
popular interest, historical value, aesthetics, or whatever else you
deem important.
That said, I agree that nine of the ten featured merit listing, but
Wilamette...ok, it's big, but there are a number of larger meteorites.
 Eight, in fact.

http://www.jensenmeteorites.com/largestmeteorites.htm

There are also many meteorites with much more extensive histories like
the Tucson Ring, Canyon Diablo, Campo del Cielo, etc.
Yeah, it's in the AMNH, and it's one of their most impressive
specimens.  But in my opinion, that shouldn't put it on a list like
this.
Top 50?  Probably, I don't know.  Need to think about it.
Top 10?  No way.  There are Campo's that beat its size, history, and
scientific importance (Campo was cratering event, after all).
Regards,
Jason

On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 11:41 AM, Meteorites USA <eric at meteoritesusa.com> wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> Did anyone read the Science Channel's Top Ten Meteorites of All Time list?
> http://science.discovery.com/top-ten/2009/meteors/meteors.html
>
> My article on MeteoriteBlog.com
> http://meteoriteblog.com/top-ten-meteorites-of-all-time-science-channel/
>
> Opinions?
>
> Regards,
> Eric Wichman
> Meteorites USA
> Meteorite Blog
> Meteorite Wiki
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Thu Dec 31 15:52:58 2009
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 12:52:58 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Science Channel's Top Ten Meteorites Of All
 Time
In-Reply-To: <93aaac890912311210m4908de1dq624be9d1f69c8215@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4B3CFE86.1020707@meteoritesusa.com>
	<93aaac890912311210m4908de1dq624be9d1f69c8215@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B3D0F2A.70409@meteoritesusa.com>

Hi Jason,

I agree and realize the "Top Lists" have been discussed, but my point 
was not about that or Willamette, or Hoba, or large meteorites at all. I 
was stating in my opinion that the #1 meteorite of ALL TIME should be 
the one in which another life form not from Earth is discovered. Isn't 
this why science exists in the first place, to learn, to gain 
knowledge,to understand, to find our origins, and to find other life forms.

A big meteorite means nothing in the scheme of things other than it's 
BIG. Who cares how big a meteorite is really? There are millions of 
other BIG meteoroids and asteroids floating around in our solar system 
which have not impacted Earth that are much larger than anything ever 
discovered on Earth. Top 10 meteorites of all time is such a subjective 
list anyway, but my point is simple. What's more important, life or size?

Shouldn't the possible discovery of another form of life originating 
from another planet outweigh a 60 ton meteorite?

Regards,
Eric


On 12/31/2009 12:10 PM, Jason Utas wrote:
> Hello Eric, All,
> We covered this on the list a while back - making such a list is
> pointless, because it depends on the criteria being most valued -
> current scientific importance, historical scientific importance,
> popular interest, historical value, aesthetics, or whatever else you
> deem important.
> That said, I agree that nine of the ten featured merit listing, but
> Wilamette...ok, it's big, but there are a number of larger meteorites.
>   Eight, in fact.
>
> http://www.jensenmeteorites.com/largestmeteorites.htm
>
> There are also many meteorites with much more extensive histories like
> the Tucson Ring, Canyon Diablo, Campo del Cielo, etc.
> Yeah, it's in the AMNH, and it's one of their most impressive
> specimens.  But in my opinion, that shouldn't put it on a list like
> this.
> Top 50?  Probably, I don't know.  Need to think about it.
> Top 10?  No way.  There are Campo's that beat its size, history, and
> scientific importance (Campo was cratering event, after all).
> Regards,
> Jason
>
> On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 11:41 AM, Meteorites USA<eric at meteoritesusa.com>  wrote:
>    
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Did anyone read the Science Channel's Top Ten Meteorites of All Time list?
>> http://science.discovery.com/top-ten/2009/meteors/meteors.html
>>
>> My article on MeteoriteBlog.com
>> http://meteoriteblog.com/top-ten-meteorites-of-all-time-science-channel/
>>
>> Opinions?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Eric Wichman
>> Meteorites USA
>> Meteorite Blog
>> Meteorite Wiki
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>>      
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>    


From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Thu Dec 31 15:53:44 2009
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 15:53:44 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Science Channel's Top Ten Meteorites Of All
	Time
In-Reply-To: <4B3CFE86.1020707@meteoritesusa.com>
References: <4B3CFE86.1020707@meteoritesusa.com>
Message-ID: <e51421550912311253v1ddd628fw9a434e0e4fdcef1f@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Eric and List,

An interesting little presentation, but I don't agree with some of the
entries on the list.

Let's start from #10 and work our way to the top.

#10 - Allende.  Allende certainly belongs on the list, but I think it
may merit a higher rank than #10.

#9 - Murchison.  This one also belongs on the list, and based on the
science alone, it should rank in the top 3 or top 5.  Murchison has
taught us much and it deserves a higher rank.

#8 - Peekskill.  A fine hammer fall and a great witnessed fall.  I
have no issues with this one, but Murchison should rank higher than
Peekskill.

#7 - Orgueil.  Historical falls from previous centuries opens a whole
new can of worms.  If Orgueil is included, why not L'Aigle?  Or why
not another type fall like Nakhla?  No offense to Orgueil, but this
one is dubious entry on a list that is directed towards the mainstream
lay-public audience.

#6 - ALH 84001.  This one should be #1 in my opinion.  It is the Holy
Grail of meteorites and it contains what many scientists agree is
proof that life once existed on Mars.  As the latest papers have
revealed, the evidence for Martian life contained in this meteorite is
increasingly solid.  I can't think of a more significant meteorite
than this one.

#5 - Sylacauga.  Mrs. Hodges would rank this one as #1.  But is it
more significant than ALH 84001?  In my opinion, no.  And couldn't
they find a photo for it?  A quick Google Image search or Encyclopedia
of Meteorites search reveals several.

#4 - Sikhote Alin.  A great historical fall by all measures.  I have
no issue with this one, other than the obvious one - it shouldn't
outrank ALH-84001.

#3 - Willamette.  Nice choice, but we are now seeing a definite bias
on this list towards iron meteorites.  If Willamette made the list,
why not one (or more) of the Cape York masses?  Heck, Murchison is
certainly more significant than this one.

#2 - Hoba.   The world's biggest iron and it certainly belongs on the
list.  But if Hoba was selected, then why not Canyon Diablo?   The
glaring absence of Canyon Diablo is also made more curious by the
inclusion of Willamette.

#1 - Tunguska! ......a non-meteorite.  This one is an odd choice.
First, it's not a meteorite, it's an impact event.  It was probably
caused by a meteorite or comet, but no meteorites were recovered.  And
if we are going to include an impact event, why not Canyon Diablo?  CD
is more recognizable to the target audience of this list and there are
tons of iron meteorites laying around to show for it.   And if we are
going to include speculative comets like Tunguska, then why not Tagish
Lake?

It's a fun list, but you can tell an intern put it together and not
someone familiar with meteorites.

Best regards and Happy New Year!

MikeG


On 12/31/09, Meteorites USA <eric at meteoritesusa.com> wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> Did anyone read the Science Channel's Top Ten Meteorites of All Time list?
> http://science.discovery.com/top-ten/2009/meteors/meteors.html
>
> My article on MeteoriteBlog.com
> http://meteoriteblog.com/top-ten-meteorites-of-all-time-science-channel/
>
> Opinions?
>
> Regards,
> Eric Wichman
> Meteorites USA
> Meteorite Blog
> Meteorite Wiki
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Thu Dec 31 15:55:12 2009
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 15:55:12 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] (no subject)
Message-ID: <e51421550912311255t3e8608ddh7740bc6f015260cb@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Eric and List,

An interesting little presentation, but I don't agree with some of the
entries on the list.

Let's start from #10 and work our way to the top.

#10 - Allende.  Allende certainly belongs on the list, but I think it
may merit a higher rank than #10.

#9 - Murchison.  This one also belongs on the list, and based on the
science alone, it should rank in the top 3 or top 5.  Murchison has
taught us much and it deserves a higher rank.

#8 - Peekskill.  A fine hammer fall and a great witnessed fall.  I
have no issues with this one, but Murchison should rank higher than
Peekskill.

#7 - Orgueil.  Historical falls from previous centuries opens a whole
new can of worms.  If Orgueil is included, why not L'Aigle?  Or why
not another type fall like Nakhla?  No offense to Orgueil, but this
one is dubious entry on a list that is directed towards the mainstream
lay-public audience.

#6 - ALH 84001.  This one should be #1 in my opinion.  It is the Holy
Grail of meteorites and it contains what many scientists agree is
proof that life once existed on Mars.  As the latest papers have
revealed, the evidence for Martian life contained in this meteorite is
increasingly solid.  I can't think of a more significant meteorite
than this one.

#5 - Sylacauga.  Mrs. Hodges would rank this one as #1.  But is it
more significant than ALH 84001?  In my opinion, no.  And couldn't
they find a photo for it?  A quick Google Image search or Encyclopedia
of Meteorites search reveals several.

#4 - Sikhote Alin.  A great historical fall by all measures.  I have
no issue with this one, other than the obvious one - it shouldn't
outrank ALH-84001.

#3 - Willamette.  Nice choice, but we are now seeing a definite bias
on this list towards iron meteorites.  If Willamette made the list,
why not one (or more) of the Cape York masses?  Heck, Murchison is
certainly more significant than this one.

#2 - Hoba.   The world's biggest iron and it certainly belongs on the
list.  But if Hoba was selected, then why not Canyon Diablo?   The
glaring absence of Canyon Diablo is also made more curious by the
inclusion of Willamette.

#1 - Tunguska! ......a non-meteorite.  This one is an odd choice.
First, it's not a meteorite, it's an impact event.  It was probably
caused by a meteorite or comet, but no meteorites were recovered.  And
if we are going to include an impact event, why not Canyon Diablo?  CD
is more recognizable to the target audience of this list and there are
tons of iron meteorites laying around to show for it.   And if we are
going to include speculative comets like Tunguska, then why not Tagish
Lake?

It's a fun list, but you can tell an intern put it together and not
someone familiar with meteorites.

Best regards and Happy New Year!

MikeG


On 12/31/09, Meteorites USA <eric at meteoritesusa.com> wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> Did anyone read the Science Channel's Top Ten Meteorites of All Time list?
> http://science.discovery.com/top-ten/2009/meteors/meteors.html
>
> My article on MeteoriteBlog.com
> http://meteoriteblog.com/top-ten-meteorites-of-all-time-science-channel/
>
> Opinions?
>
> Regards,
> Eric Wichman
> Meteorites USA
> Meteorite Blog
> Meteorite Wiki
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Thu Dec 31 16:36:47 2009
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 13:36:47 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Science Channel's Top Ten Meteorites Of All
 Time
In-Reply-To: <e51421550912311253v1ddd628fw9a434e0e4fdcef1f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4B3CFE86.1020707@meteoritesusa.com>
	<e51421550912311253v1ddd628fw9a434e0e4fdcef1f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B3D196F.4080306@meteoritesusa.com>

My point was not that we all disagree on the list, but rather the 
seemingly misplaced importance of the discovery of another life form 
from another planet and that that evidence was found in a meteorite. In 
my opinion, that trumps any other meteorite that has even been discovered.

Regards,
Eric

On 12/31/2009 12:53 PM, Galactic Stone & Ironworks wrote:
> Hi Eric and List,
>
> An interesting little presentation, but I don't agree with some of the
> entries on the list.
>
>    
":....."It's a fun list, but you can tell an intern put it together and not
> someone familiar with meteorites.
>
> Best regards and Happy New Year!
>
> MikeG
>
>
> On 12/31/09, Meteorites USA<eric at meteoritesusa.com>  wrote:
>    
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Did anyone read the Science Channel's Top Ten Meteorites of All Time list?
>> http://science.discovery.com/top-ten/2009/meteors/meteors.html
>>
>> My article on MeteoriteBlog.com
>> http://meteoriteblog.com/top-ten-meteorites-of-all-time-science-channel/
>>
>> Opinions?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Eric Wichman
>> Meteorites USA
>> Meteorite Blog
>> Meteorite Wiki
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>>      
>    


From jgrossman at usgs.gov  Thu Dec 31 16:37:57 2009
From: jgrossman at usgs.gov (Jeff Grossman)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 16:37:57 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Science Channel's Top Ten Meteorites Of All
 Time
In-Reply-To: <e51421550912311253v1ddd628fw9a434e0e4fdcef1f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4B3CFE86.1020707@meteoritesusa.com>
	<e51421550912311253v1ddd628fw9a434e0e4fdcef1f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B3D19B5.3070409@usgs.gov>

My top 10 most important meteorites of the last 250 years, off the top 
of my head, in alphabetical order -

Allan Hills A81005
Allan Hills 84001
Allende
Canyon Diablo
Elephant Moraine A79001
L'Aigle
Murchison
Orgueil
Semarkona
Siena

Peekskill, Sylacauga, Willamette and Hoba aren't even close, and no more 
needs to be said about Tunguska, which would make my list if any were 
actually found.  I wanted to put Pribram on the list, but couldn't fit 
it into the top 10.  Yamato 691 was also tempting.

Jeff

On 2009-12-31 3:53 PM, Galactic Stone & Ironworks wrote:
> Hi Eric and List,
>
> An interesting little presentation, but I don't agree with some of the
> entries on the list.
>
> Let's start from #10 and work our way to the top.
>
> #10 - Allende.  Allende certainly belongs on the list, but I think it
> may merit a higher rank than #10.
>
> #9 - Murchison.  This one also belongs on the list, and based on the
> science alone, it should rank in the top 3 or top 5.  Murchison has
> taught us much and it deserves a higher rank.
>
> #8 - Peekskill.  A fine hammer fall and a great witnessed fall.  I
> have no issues with this one, but Murchison should rank higher than
> Peekskill.
>
> #7 - Orgueil.  Historical falls from previous centuries opens a whole
> new can of worms.  If Orgueil is included, why not L'Aigle?  Or why
> not another type fall like Nakhla?  No offense to Orgueil, but this
> one is dubious entry on a list that is directed towards the mainstream
> lay-public audience.
>
> #6 - ALH 84001.  This one should be #1 in my opinion.  It is the Holy
> Grail of meteorites and it contains what many scientists agree is
> proof that life once existed on Mars.  As the latest papers have
> revealed, the evidence for Martian life contained in this meteorite is
> increasingly solid.  I can't think of a more significant meteorite
> than this one.
>
> #5 - Sylacauga.  Mrs. Hodges would rank this one as #1.  But is it
> more significant than ALH 84001?  In my opinion, no.  And couldn't
> they find a photo for it?  A quick Google Image search or Encyclopedia
> of Meteorites search reveals several.
>
> #4 - Sikhote Alin.  A great historical fall by all measures.  I have
> no issue with this one, other than the obvious one - it shouldn't
> outrank ALH-84001.
>
> #3 - Willamette.  Nice choice, but we are now seeing a definite bias
> on this list towards iron meteorites.  If Willamette made the list,
> why not one (or more) of the Cape York masses?  Heck, Murchison is
> certainly more significant than this one.
>
> #2 - Hoba.   The world's biggest iron and it certainly belongs on the
> list.  But if Hoba was selected, then why not Canyon Diablo?   The
> glaring absence of Canyon Diablo is also made more curious by the
> inclusion of Willamette.
>
> #1 - Tunguska! ......a non-meteorite.  This one is an odd choice.
> First, it's not a meteorite, it's an impact event.  It was probably
> caused by a meteorite or comet, but no meteorites were recovered.  And
> if we are going to include an impact event, why not Canyon Diablo?  CD
> is more recognizable to the target audience of this list and there are
> tons of iron meteorites laying around to show for it.   And if we are
> going to include speculative comets like Tunguska, then why not Tagish
> Lake?
>
> It's a fun list, but you can tell an intern put it together and not
> someone familiar with meteorites.
>
> Best regards and Happy New Year!
>
> MikeG
>
>
> On 12/31/09, Meteorites USA<eric at meteoritesusa.com>  wrote:
>    
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Did anyone read the Science Channel's Top Ten Meteorites of All Time list?
>> http://science.discovery.com/top-ten/2009/meteors/meteors.html
>>
>> My article on MeteoriteBlog.com
>> http://meteoriteblog.com/top-ten-meteorites-of-all-time-science-channel/
>>
>> Opinions?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Eric Wichman
>> Meteorites USA
>> Meteorite Blog
>> Meteorite Wiki
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>>      
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>    


-- 
Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman       phone: (703) 648-6184
US Geological Survey          fax:   (703) 648-6383
954 National Center
Reston, VA 20192, USA




From lintonius at earthlink.net  Thu Dec 31 16:55:55 2009
From: lintonius at earthlink.net (Linton Rohr)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 13:55:55 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Science Channel's Top Ten Meteorites Of All
	Time
References: <4B3CFE86.1020707@meteoritesusa.com><e51421550912311253v1ddd628fw9a434e0e4fdcef1f@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B3D19B5.3070409@usgs.gov>
Message-ID: <7E3E17781CBA4C4F955BE94E82AAAE48@D190TH71>

Ahhhh. Now there's an interesting perspective. Thanks Jeff.
While I have fewer of those in my collection,
it gives me  more to add to my shopping list. <g>
Or at least, more to think about.
Linton

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jeff Grossman" <jgrossman at usgs.gov>
To: "Meteorite-list" <>
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 1:37 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Science Channel's Top Ten Meteorites Of All 
Time


> My top 10 most important meteorites of the last 250 years, off the top of 
> my head, in alphabetical order -
>
> Allan Hills A81005
> Allan Hills 84001
> Allende
> Canyon Diablo
> Elephant Moraine A79001
> L'Aigle
> Murchison
> Orgueil
> Semarkona
> Siena
>
> Peekskill, Sylacauga, Willamette and Hoba aren't even close, and no more 
> needs to be said about Tunguska, which would make my list if any were 
> actually found.  I wanted to put Pribram on the list, but couldn't fit it 
> into the top 10.  Yamato 691 was also tempting.
>
> Jeff
>
> On 2009-12-31 3:53 PM, Galactic Stone & Ironworks wrote:
>> Hi Eric and List,
>>
>> An interesting little presentation, but I don't agree with some of the
>> entries on the list.
>>
>> Let's start from #10 and work our way to the top.
>>
>> #10 - Allende.  Allende certainly belongs on the list, but I think it
>> may merit a higher rank than #10.
>>
>> #9 - Murchison.  This one also belongs on the list, and based on the
>> science alone, it should rank in the top 3 or top 5.  Murchison has
>> taught us much and it deserves a higher rank.
>>
>> #8 - Peekskill.  A fine hammer fall and a great witnessed fall.  I
>> have no issues with this one, but Murchison should rank higher than
>> Peekskill.
>>
>> #7 - Orgueil.  Historical falls from previous centuries opens a whole
>> new can of worms.  If Orgueil is included, why not L'Aigle?  Or why
>> not another type fall like Nakhla?  No offense to Orgueil, but this
>> one is dubious entry on a list that is directed towards the mainstream
>> lay-public audience.
>>
>> #6 - ALH 84001.  This one should be #1 in my opinion.  It is the Holy
>> Grail of meteorites and it contains what many scientists agree is
>> proof that life once existed on Mars.  As the latest papers have
>> revealed, the evidence for Martian life contained in this meteorite is
>> increasingly solid.  I can't think of a more significant meteorite
>> than this one.
>>
>> #5 - Sylacauga.  Mrs. Hodges would rank this one as #1.  But is it
>> more significant than ALH 84001?  In my opinion, no.  And couldn't
>> they find a photo for it?  A quick Google Image search or Encyclopedia
>> of Meteorites search reveals several.
>>
>> #4 - Sikhote Alin.  A great historical fall by all measures.  I have
>> no issue with this one, other than the obvious one - it shouldn't
>> outrank ALH-84001.
>>
>> #3 - Willamette.  Nice choice, but we are now seeing a definite bias
>> on this list towards iron meteorites.  If Willamette made the list,
>> why not one (or more) of the Cape York masses?  Heck, Murchison is
>> certainly more significant than this one.
>>
>> #2 - Hoba.   The world's biggest iron and it certainly belongs on the
>> list.  But if Hoba was selected, then why not Canyon Diablo?   The
>> glaring absence of Canyon Diablo is also made more curious by the
>> inclusion of Willamette.
>>
>> #1 - Tunguska! ......a non-meteorite.  This one is an odd choice.
>> First, it's not a meteorite, it's an impact event.  It was probably
>> caused by a meteorite or comet, but no meteorites were recovered.  And
>> if we are going to include an impact event, why not Canyon Diablo?  CD
>> is more recognizable to the target audience of this list and there are
>> tons of iron meteorites laying around to show for it.   And if we are
>> going to include speculative comets like Tunguska, then why not Tagish
>> Lake?
>>
>> It's a fun list, but you can tell an intern put it together and not
>> someone familiar with meteorites.
>>
>> Best regards and Happy New Year!
>>
>> MikeG
>>
>>
>> On 12/31/09, Meteorites USA<eric at meteoritesusa.com>  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> Did anyone read the Science Channel's Top Ten Meteorites of All Time 
>>> list?
>>> http://science.discovery.com/top-ten/2009/meteors/meteors.html
>>>
>>> My article on MeteoriteBlog.com
>>> http://meteoriteblog.com/top-ten-meteorites-of-all-time-science-channel/
>>>
>>> Opinions?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Eric Wichman
>>> Meteorites USA
>>> Meteorite Blog
>>> Meteorite Wiki
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman       phone: (703) 648-6184
> US Geological Survey          fax:   (703) 648-6383
> 954 National Center
> Reston, VA 20192, USA
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 



From meteoritekid at gmail.com  Thu Dec 31 16:59:10 2009
From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 13:59:10 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Science Channel's Top Ten Meteorites Of All
	Time
In-Reply-To: <e51421550912311253v1ddd628fw9a434e0e4fdcef1f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4B3CFE86.1020707@meteoritesusa.com>
	<e51421550912311253v1ddd628fw9a434e0e4fdcef1f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <93aaac890912311359o35b27ff5ud06b29f997798633@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Mike,
On the contrary, Orguiel is a CI1, and is thus one of the most
primitive pieces of matter on the planet.  It hasn't experienced
temperatures above about 200C - and contains a multitude of complex
organic molecules, just like Murchison.  The only reason more work
hasn't been done on it is because there's simply not that much to go
around - it's much less common than its Australian rival.
But, yes, perhaps Tagish lake should belong on the list, as it *is*
the freshest available sample of such material available to modern
science.  And Orgueil's historic, to boot!  Great rock, that.
Such meteorites likely contained the building blocks of the earliest
organisms, as they seeded planets that, science tells us, would have
been devoid of complex organic molecules and water, those compounds
that are so necessary for the existence of life as we know it.

> #2 - Hoba.   The world's biggest iron and it certainly belongs on the
> list.  But if Hoba was selected, then why not Canyon Diablo?   The
> glaring absence of Canyon Diablo is also made more curious by the
> inclusion of Willamette.

That's all very well, but I don't know what you mean by a bias towards
irons.  The only one I see that doesn't belong is Wilamette, and I
think we're in agreement that it should be replaced by either Canyon
Diablo or Campo del Cielo.

Also, the whole "life" in ALH 84001 thing...it could well be, but
until that's proven, I don't think you can really say it's the most
important meteorite that we have.  It could be proof of
extraterrestrial life, but it might just be a cool Shergottite.  Until
that's *proven,* you're just looking at another Port Orford, or a
Chinguetti of the scientific world, so to speak.

But we're degenerating into making personal lists of ten again...there
it goes....

Regards,
Jason


On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 12:53 PM, Galactic Stone & Ironworks
<meteoritemike at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Eric and List,
>
> An interesting little presentation, but I don't agree with some of the
> entries on the list.
>
> Let's start from #10 and work our way to the top.
>
> #10 - Allende. ?Allende certainly belongs on the list, but I think it
> may merit a higher rank than #10.
>
> #9 - Murchison. ?This one also belongs on the list, and based on the
> science alone, it should rank in the top 3 or top 5. ?Murchison has
> taught us much and it deserves a higher rank.
>
> #8 - Peekskill. ?A fine hammer fall and a great witnessed fall. ?I
> have no issues with this one, but Murchison should rank higher than
> Peekskill.
>
> #7 - Orgueil. ?Historical falls from previous centuries opens a whole
> new can of worms. ?If Orgueil is included, why not L'Aigle? ?Or why
> not another type fall like Nakhla? ?No offense to Orgueil, but this
> one is dubious entry on a list that is directed towards the mainstream
> lay-public audience.
>
> #6 - ALH 84001. ?This one should be #1 in my opinion. ?It is the Holy
> Grail of meteorites and it contains what many scientists agree is
> proof that life once existed on Mars. ?As the latest papers have
> revealed, the evidence for Martian life contained in this meteorite is
> increasingly solid. ?I can't think of a more significant meteorite
> than this one.
>
> #5 - Sylacauga. ?Mrs. Hodges would rank this one as #1. ?But is it
> more significant than ALH 84001? ?In my opinion, no. ?And couldn't
> they find a photo for it? ?A quick Google Image search or Encyclopedia
> of Meteorites search reveals several.
>
> #4 - Sikhote Alin. ?A great historical fall by all measures. ?I have
> no issue with this one, other than the obvious one - it shouldn't
> outrank ALH-84001.
>
> #3 - Willamette. ?Nice choice, but we are now seeing a definite bias
> on this list towards iron meteorites. ?If Willamette made the list,
> why not one (or more) of the Cape York masses? ?Heck, Murchison is
> certainly more significant than this one.
>
> #2 - Hoba. ? The world's biggest iron and it certainly belongs on the
> list. ?But if Hoba was selected, then why not Canyon Diablo? ? The
> glaring absence of Canyon Diablo is also made more curious by the
> inclusion of Willamette.
>
> #1 - Tunguska! ......a non-meteorite. ?This one is an odd choice.
> First, it's not a meteorite, it's an impact event. ?It was probably
> caused by a meteorite or comet, but no meteorites were recovered. ?And
> if we are going to include an impact event, why not Canyon Diablo? ?CD
> is more recognizable to the target audience of this list and there are
> tons of iron meteorites laying around to show for it. ? And if we are
> going to include speculative comets like Tunguska, then why not Tagish
> Lake?
>
> It's a fun list, but you can tell an intern put it together and not
> someone familiar with meteorites.
>
> Best regards and Happy New Year!
>
> MikeG
>
>
> On 12/31/09, Meteorites USA <eric at meteoritesusa.com> wrote:
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Did anyone read the Science Channel's Top Ten Meteorites of All Time list?
>> http://science.discovery.com/top-ten/2009/meteors/meteors.html
>>
>> My article on MeteoriteBlog.com
>> http://meteoriteblog.com/top-ten-meteorites-of-all-time-science-channel/
>>
>> Opinions?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Eric Wichman
>> Meteorites USA
>> Meteorite Blog
>> Meteorite Wiki
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Thu Dec 31 17:26:17 2009
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 14:26:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA's Mars Rover Has Uncertain Future as Sixth
	Anniversary Nears
Message-ID: <200912312226.nBVMQHdg011762@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>



Dec. 31, 2009

Dwayne Brown 
Headquarters, Washington 
202-358-1726 
dwayne.c.brown at nasa.gov 

Guy Webster/Veronica McGregor 
Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. 
818-354-5011 
guy.webster at jpl.nasa.gov, veronica.mcgregor at jpl.nasa.gov 

RELEASE: 09-297

NASA'S MARS ROVER HAS UNCERTAIN FUTURE AS SIXTH ANNIVERSARY NEARS

PASADENA, Calif. -- NASA's Mars rover Spirit will mark six years of 
unprecedented science exploration and inspiration for the American 
public on Sunday. However, the upcoming Martian winter could end the 
roving career of the beloved, scrappy robot. 

Spirit successfully landed on the Red Planet at 8:35 p.m. PST on Jan. 
3, 2004, and its twin Opportunity arrived at 9:05 p.m. Jan. 24, 2004. 
The rovers began missions intended to last for three months but which 
have lasted six Earth years, or 3.2 Mars years. During this time, 
Spirit has found evidence of a steamy and violent environment on 
ancient Mars that was quite different from the wet and acidic past 
documented by Opportunity, which has been operating successfully as 
it explores halfway around the planet. 

A sand trap and balky wheels are challenges to Spirit's mobility that 
could prevent NASA's rover team from using a key survival strategy 
for the rover. The team may not be able to position the robot's solar 
panels to tilt toward the sun to collect power for heat to survive 
the severe Martian winter. 

Nine months ago, Spirit's wheels broke through a crusty surface layer 
into loose sand hidden underneath. Efforts to escape this sand trap 
barely have budged the rover. The rover's inability to use all six 
wheels for driving has worsened the predicament. Spirit's right-front 
wheel quit working in 2006, and its right-rear wheel stalled a month 
ago. Surprisingly, the right-front wheel resumed working, though 
intermittently. Drives with four or five operating wheels have 
produced little progress toward escaping the sand trap. The latest 
attempts resulted in the rover sinking deeper in the soil. 

"The highest priority for this mission right now is to stay mobile, if 
that's possible," said Steve Squyres of Cornell University in Ithaca, 
N.Y. He is principal investigator for the rovers. 

If mobility is not possible, the next priority is to improve the 
rover's tilt, while Spirit is able to generate enough electricity to 
turn its wheels. Spirit is in the southern hemisphere of Mars, where 
it is autumn, and the amount of daily sunshine available for the 
solar-powered rover is declining. This could result in ceasing 
extraction activities as early as January, depending on the amount of 
remaining power. Spirit's tilt, nearly five degrees toward the south, 
is unfavorable because the winter sun crosses low in the northern 
sky. 

Unless the tilt can be improved or luck with winds affects the gradual 
buildup of dust on the solar panels, the amount of sunshine available 
will continue to decline until May 2010. During May, or perhaps 
earlier, Spirit may not have enough power to remain in operation. 

"At the current rate of dust accumulation, solar arrays at zero tilt 
would provide barely enough energy to run the survival heaters 
through the Mars winter solstice," said Jennifer Herman, a rover 
power engineer at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, 
Calif. 

The team is evaluating strategies for improving the tilt even if 
Spirit cannot escape the sand trap, such as trying to dig in deeper 
with the wheels on the north side. In February, NASA will assess Mars 
missions, including Spirit, for their potential science versus costs 
to determine how to distribute limited resources. Meanwhile, the team 
is planning additional research about what a stationary Spirit could 
accomplish as power wanes. 

"Spirit could continue significant research right where it is," said 
Ray Arvidson of Washington University in St. Louis, deputy principal 
investigator for the rovers. "We can study the interior of Mars, 
monitor the weather and continue examining the interesting deposits 
uncovered by Spirit's wheels." 

A study of the planet's interior would use radio transmissions to 
measure wobble of the planet's axis of rotation, which is not 
feasible with a mobile rover. That experiment and others might 
provide more and different findings from a mission that has already 
far exceeded expectations. 

"Long-term change in the spin direction could tell us about the 
diameter and density of the planet's core," said William Folkner of 
JPL. He has been developing plans for conducting this experiment with 
a future, stationary Mars lander. "Short-period changes could tell us 
whether the core is liquid or solid," he said. 

In 2004, Opportunity discovered the first mineralogical evidence that 
Mars had liquid water. The rover recently finished a two-year 
investigation of a half-mile wide crater called Victoria and now is 
headed toward Endeavor crater, which is approximately seven miles 
from Victoria and nearly 14 miles across. Since landing, Opportunity 
has driven more than 11 miles and returned more than 132,000 images. 

For more information about the rovers, visit: 

http://www.nasa.gov/rovers 
	
-end-



From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Thu Dec 31 17:32:50 2009
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 14:32:50 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Science Channel's Top Ten Meteorites Of All
 Time
In-Reply-To: <93aaac890912311359o35b27ff5ud06b29f997798633@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4B3CFE86.1020707@meteoritesusa.com>	<e51421550912311253v1ddd628fw9a434e0e4fdcef1f@mail.gmail.com>
	<93aaac890912311359o35b27ff5ud06b29f997798633@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B3D2692.1030709@meteoritesusa.com>

Mike, List,

Perhaps the point of the Top Ten list is not to make a Top Ten list at 
all, but rather a conversation piece and publicity generating article 
simply to gain traffic. I mean we are after all speaking about it at 
length and have done so in the past as well...

@Jason - In regards to ALH 84001, on the contrary. The difference 
between proven and unproven is irrelevant. The point is the "evidence" 
and "possibility" is there, which no other meteorite has, and that by 
itself should make it the most important meteorite (for now at least), 
regardless of whether it is solid proof of life. Does that make sense? 
If by chance science is wrong and it's not proof of extraterrestrial 
life it can be removed from the top of the list easily enough.

I guess importance is subjective to personal preference and not science.

Regards,
Eric



On 12/31/2009 1:59 PM, Jason Utas wrote:
> Hello Mike,
> On the contrary, Orguiel is a CI1, and is thus one of the most
> primitive pieces of matter on the planet.  It hasn't experienced
> temperatures above about 200C - and contains a multitude of complex
> organic molecules, just like Murchison.  The only reason more work
> hasn't been done on it is because there's simply not that much to go
> around - it's much less common than its Australian rival.
> But, yes, perhaps Tagish lake should belong on the list, as it *is*
> the freshest available sample of such material available to modern
> science.  And Orgueil's historic, to boot!  Great rock, that.
> Such meteorites likely contained the building blocks of the earliest
> organisms, as they seeded planets that, science tells us, would have
> been devoid of complex organic molecules and water, those compounds
> that are so necessary for the existence of life as we know it.
>
>    
>> #2 - Hoba.   The world's biggest iron and it certainly belongs on the
>> list.  But if Hoba was selected, then why not Canyon Diablo?   The
>> glaring absence of Canyon Diablo is also made more curious by the
>> inclusion of Willamette.
>>      
> That's all very well, but I don't know what you mean by a bias towards
> irons.  The only one I see that doesn't belong is Wilamette, and I
> think we're in agreement that it should be replaced by either Canyon
> Diablo or Campo del Cielo.
>
> Also, the whole "life" in ALH 84001 thing...it could well be, but
> until that's proven, I don't think you can really say it's the most
> important meteorite that we have.  It could be proof of
> extraterrestrial life, but it might just be a cool Shergottite.  Until
> that's *proven,* you're just looking at another Port Orford, or a
> Chinguetti of the scientific world, so to speak.
>
> But we're degenerating into making personal lists of ten again...there
> it goes....
>
> Regards,
> Jason
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 12:53 PM, Galactic Stone&  Ironworks
> <meteoritemike at gmail.com>  wrote:
>    
>> Hi Eric and List,
>>
>> An interesting little presentation, but I don't agree with some of the
>> entries on the list.
>>
>> Let's start from #10 and work our way to the top.
>>
>> #10 - Allende.  Allende certainly belongs on the list, but I think it
>> may merit a higher rank than #10.
>>
>> #9 - Murchison.  This one also belongs on the list, and based on the
>> science alone, it should rank in the top 3 or top 5.  Murchison has
>> taught us much and it deserves a higher rank.
>>
>> #8 - Peekskill.  A fine hammer fall and a great witnessed fall.  I
>> have no issues with this one, but Murchison should rank higher than
>> Peekskill.
>>
>> #7 - Orgueil.  Historical falls from previous centuries opens a whole
>> new can of worms.  If Orgueil is included, why not L'Aigle?  Or why
>> not another type fall like Nakhla?  No offense to Orgueil, but this
>> one is dubious entry on a list that is directed towards the mainstream
>> lay-public audience.
>>
>> #6 - ALH 84001.  This one should be #1 in my opinion.  It is the Holy
>> Grail of meteorites and it contains what many scientists agree is
>> proof that life once existed on Mars.  As the latest papers have
>> revealed, the evidence for Martian life contained in this meteorite is
>> increasingly solid.  I can't think of a more significant meteorite
>> than this one.
>>
>> #5 - Sylacauga.  Mrs. Hodges would rank this one as #1.  But is it
>> more significant than ALH 84001?  In my opinion, no.  And couldn't
>> they find a photo for it?  A quick Google Image search or Encyclopedia
>> of Meteorites search reveals several.
>>
>> #4 - Sikhote Alin.  A great historical fall by all measures.  I have
>> no issue with this one, other than the obvious one - it shouldn't
>> outrank ALH-84001.
>>
>> #3 - Willamette.  Nice choice, but we are now seeing a definite bias
>> on this list towards iron meteorites.  If Willamette made the list,
>> why not one (or more) of the Cape York masses?  Heck, Murchison is
>> certainly more significant than this one.
>>
>> #2 - Hoba.   The world's biggest iron and it certainly belongs on the
>> list.  But if Hoba was selected, then why not Canyon Diablo?   The
>> glaring absence of Canyon Diablo is also made more curious by the
>> inclusion of Willamette.
>>
>> #1 - Tunguska! ......a non-meteorite.  This one is an odd choice.
>> First, it's not a meteorite, it's an impact event.  It was probably
>> caused by a meteorite or comet, but no meteorites were recovered.  And
>> if we are going to include an impact event, why not Canyon Diablo?  CD
>> is more recognizable to the target audience of this list and there are
>> tons of iron meteorites laying around to show for it.   And if we are
>> going to include speculative comets like Tunguska, then why not Tagish
>> Lake?
>>
>> It's a fun list, but you can tell an intern put it together and not
>> someone familiar with meteorites.
>>
>> Best regards and Happy New Year!
>>
>> MikeG
>>
>>
>> On 12/31/09, Meteorites USA<eric at meteoritesusa.com>  wrote:
>>      
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> Did anyone read the Science Channel's Top Ten Meteorites of All Time list?
>>> http://science.discovery.com/top-ten/2009/meteors/meteors.html
>>>
>>> My article on MeteoriteBlog.com
>>> http://meteoriteblog.com/top-ten-meteorites-of-all-time-science-channel/
>>>
>>> Opinions?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Eric Wichman
>>> Meteorites USA
>>> Meteorite Blog
>>> Meteorite Wiki
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>>>        
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>>      
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>    


From impactika at aol.com  Thu Dec 31 17:38:08 2009
From: impactika at aol.com (impactika at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 17:38:08 EST
Subject: [meteorite-list] Happy New Year
Message-ID: <693f.79cb868.386e81d0@aol.com>



Happy New Year to all List members!

May 2010 bring you many more meteorites and anything else you desire.

And most of all: 
May 2010 bring us all a lot of Peace, Calm and Quiet everywhere around our 
blue globe.

(from snowy Denver Colorado.
Still many hours from the New Year.)

Anne M. Black
http://www.impactika.com/
IMPACTIKA at aol.com
Vice-President, I.M.C.A. Inc.
http://www.imca.cc/


From meteoritekid at gmail.com  Thu Dec 31 17:42:25 2009
From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 14:42:25 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Science Channel's Top Ten Meteorites Of All
	Time
In-Reply-To: <4B3D2692.1030709@meteoritesusa.com>
References: <4B3CFE86.1020707@meteoritesusa.com>
	<e51421550912311253v1ddd628fw9a434e0e4fdcef1f@mail.gmail.com>
	<93aaac890912311359o35b27ff5ud06b29f997798633@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B3D2692.1030709@meteoritesusa.com>
Message-ID: <93aaac890912311442r1d73bd3fj124b53cc499a14e2@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Eric, All,
I would disagree.  Since we really don't know what made those
features, you're simply dealing with little inorganic structures that
science says are similar to those made by organisms on Earth.
You can hype them up in the media until the cows come home, and wish
for life on Mars until you die, but until you find proof, that's all
you have.
I've got nothing against the idea, but this whole thing is kind of
ridiculous; I'm waiting for a substantial bit of proof before I start
calling something important, as opposed to an interesting mineral
formation.
Happy New Years,
Jason

On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 2:32 PM, Meteorites USA <eric at meteoritesusa.com> wrote:
> Mike, List,
>
> Perhaps the point of the Top Ten list is not to make a Top Ten list at all,
> but rather a conversation piece and publicity generating article simply to
> gain traffic. I mean we are after all speaking about it at length and have
> done so in the past as well...
>
> @Jason - In regards to ALH 84001, on the contrary. The difference between
> proven and unproven is irrelevant. The point is the "evidence" and
> "possibility" is there, which no other meteorite has, and that by itself
> should make it the most important meteorite (for now at least), regardless
> of whether it is solid proof of life. Does that make sense? If by chance
> science is wrong and it's not proof of extraterrestrial life it can be
> removed from the top of the list easily enough.
>
> I guess importance is subjective to personal preference and not science.
>
> Regards,
> Eric
>
>
>
> On 12/31/2009 1:59 PM, Jason Utas wrote:
>>
>> Hello Mike,
>> On the contrary, Orguiel is a CI1, and is thus one of the most
>> primitive pieces of matter on the planet. ?It hasn't experienced
>> temperatures above about 200C - and contains a multitude of complex
>> organic molecules, just like Murchison. ?The only reason more work
>> hasn't been done on it is because there's simply not that much to go
>> around - it's much less common than its Australian rival.
>> But, yes, perhaps Tagish lake should belong on the list, as it *is*
>> the freshest available sample of such material available to modern
>> science. ?And Orgueil's historic, to boot! ?Great rock, that.
>> Such meteorites likely contained the building blocks of the earliest
>> organisms, as they seeded planets that, science tells us, would have
>> been devoid of complex organic molecules and water, those compounds
>> that are so necessary for the existence of life as we know it.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> #2 - Hoba. ? The world's biggest iron and it certainly belongs on the
>>> list. ?But if Hoba was selected, then why not Canyon Diablo? ? The
>>> glaring absence of Canyon Diablo is also made more curious by the
>>> inclusion of Willamette.
>>>
>>
>> That's all very well, but I don't know what you mean by a bias towards
>> irons. ?The only one I see that doesn't belong is Wilamette, and I
>> think we're in agreement that it should be replaced by either Canyon
>> Diablo or Campo del Cielo.
>>
>> Also, the whole "life" in ALH 84001 thing...it could well be, but
>> until that's proven, I don't think you can really say it's the most
>> important meteorite that we have. ?It could be proof of
>> extraterrestrial life, but it might just be a cool Shergottite. ?Until
>> that's *proven,* you're just looking at another Port Orford, or a
>> Chinguetti of the scientific world, so to speak.
>>
>> But we're degenerating into making personal lists of ten again...there
>> it goes....
>>
>> Regards,
>> Jason
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 12:53 PM, Galactic Stone& ?Ironworks
>> <meteoritemike at gmail.com> ?wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Hi Eric and List,
>>>
>>> An interesting little presentation, but I don't agree with some of the
>>> entries on the list.
>>>
>>> Let's start from #10 and work our way to the top.
>>>
>>> #10 - Allende. ?Allende certainly belongs on the list, but I think it
>>> may merit a higher rank than #10.
>>>
>>> #9 - Murchison. ?This one also belongs on the list, and based on the
>>> science alone, it should rank in the top 3 or top 5. ?Murchison has
>>> taught us much and it deserves a higher rank.
>>>
>>> #8 - Peekskill. ?A fine hammer fall and a great witnessed fall. ?I
>>> have no issues with this one, but Murchison should rank higher than
>>> Peekskill.
>>>
>>> #7 - Orgueil. ?Historical falls from previous centuries opens a whole
>>> new can of worms. ?If Orgueil is included, why not L'Aigle? ?Or why
>>> not another type fall like Nakhla? ?No offense to Orgueil, but this
>>> one is dubious entry on a list that is directed towards the mainstream
>>> lay-public audience.
>>>
>>> #6 - ALH 84001. ?This one should be #1 in my opinion. ?It is the Holy
>>> Grail of meteorites and it contains what many scientists agree is
>>> proof that life once existed on Mars. ?As the latest papers have
>>> revealed, the evidence for Martian life contained in this meteorite is
>>> increasingly solid. ?I can't think of a more significant meteorite
>>> than this one.
>>>
>>> #5 - Sylacauga. ?Mrs. Hodges would rank this one as #1. ?But is it
>>> more significant than ALH 84001? ?In my opinion, no. ?And couldn't
>>> they find a photo for it? ?A quick Google Image search or Encyclopedia
>>> of Meteorites search reveals several.
>>>
>>> #4 - Sikhote Alin. ?A great historical fall by all measures. ?I have
>>> no issue with this one, other than the obvious one - it shouldn't
>>> outrank ALH-84001.
>>>
>>> #3 - Willamette. ?Nice choice, but we are now seeing a definite bias
>>> on this list towards iron meteorites. ?If Willamette made the list,
>>> why not one (or more) of the Cape York masses? ?Heck, Murchison is
>>> certainly more significant than this one.
>>>
>>> #2 - Hoba. ? The world's biggest iron and it certainly belongs on the
>>> list. ?But if Hoba was selected, then why not Canyon Diablo? ? The
>>> glaring absence of Canyon Diablo is also made more curious by the
>>> inclusion of Willamette.
>>>
>>> #1 - Tunguska! ......a non-meteorite. ?This one is an odd choice.
>>> First, it's not a meteorite, it's an impact event. ?It was probably
>>> caused by a meteorite or comet, but no meteorites were recovered. ?And
>>> if we are going to include an impact event, why not Canyon Diablo? ?CD
>>> is more recognizable to the target audience of this list and there are
>>> tons of iron meteorites laying around to show for it. ? And if we are
>>> going to include speculative comets like Tunguska, then why not Tagish
>>> Lake?
>>>
>>> It's a fun list, but you can tell an intern put it together and not
>>> someone familiar with meteorites.
>>>
>>> Best regards and Happy New Year!
>>>
>>> MikeG
>>>
>>>
>>> On 12/31/09, Meteorites USA<eric at meteoritesusa.com> ?wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi All,
>>>>
>>>> Did anyone read the Science Channel's Top Ten Meteorites of All Time
>>>> list?
>>>> http://science.discovery.com/top-ten/2009/meteors/meteors.html
>>>>
>>>> My article on MeteoriteBlog.com
>>>> http://meteoriteblog.com/top-ten-meteorites-of-all-time-science-channel/
>>>>
>>>> Opinions?
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Eric Wichman
>>>> Meteorites USA
>>>> Meteorite Blog
>>>> Meteorite Wiki
>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>>
>


From darryl at dof3.com  Thu Dec 31 17:52:27 2009
From: darryl at dof3.com (Darryl Pitt)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 17:52:27 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Science Channel's Top Ten Meteorites Of All
	Time
In-Reply-To: <4B3D19B5.3070409@usgs.gov>
References: <4B3CFE86.1020707@meteoritesusa.com>
	<e51421550912311253v1ddd628fw9a434e0e4fdcef1f@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B3D19B5.3070409@usgs.gov>
Message-ID: <963E44F8-C69E-48E9-883B-3D41DC2EDF29@dof3.com>



Not so fast!!

The list provided by the Science Channel was surely the result of  
tremendous consideration and is BRILLIANT and SPOT ON....(and the  
Macovich Collection's control of the largest privately owned specimens  
of #3, #7 and #8 is purely coincidental   ;-)

Seriously?  The Science Channel list is...problematic.



On Dec 31, 2009, at 4:37 PM, Jeff Grossman wrote:

> My top 10 most important meteorites of the last 250 years, off the  
> top of my head, in alphabetical order -
>
> Allan Hills A81005
> Allan Hills 84001
> Allende
> Canyon Diablo
> Elephant Moraine A79001
> L'Aigle
> Murchison
> Orgueil
> Semarkona
> Siena
>
> Peekskill, Sylacauga, Willamette and Hoba aren't even close, and no  
> more needs to be said about Tunguska, which would make my list if  
> any were actually found.  I wanted to put Pribram on the list, but  
> couldn't fit it into the top 10.  Yamato 691 was also tempting.
>
> Jeff
>
> On 2009-12-31 3:53 PM, Galactic Stone & Ironworks wrote:
>> Hi Eric and List,
>>
>> An interesting little presentation, but I don't agree with some of  
>> the
>> entries on the list.
>>
>> Let's start from #10 and work our way to the top.
>>
>> #10 - Allende.  Allende certainly belongs on the list, but I think it
>> may merit a higher rank than #10.
>>
>> #9 - Murchison.  This one also belongs on the list, and based on the
>> science alone, it should rank in the top 3 or top 5.  Murchison has
>> taught us much and it deserves a higher rank.
>>
>> #8 - Peekskill.  A fine hammer fall and a great witnessed fall.  I
>> have no issues with this one, but Murchison should rank higher than
>> Peekskill.
>>
>> #7 - Orgueil.  Historical falls from previous centuries opens a whole
>> new can of worms.  If Orgueil is included, why not L'Aigle?  Or why
>> not another type fall like Nakhla?  No offense to Orgueil, but this
>> one is dubious entry on a list that is directed towards the  
>> mainstream
>> lay-public audience.
>>
>> #6 - ALH 84001.  This one should be #1 in my opinion.  It is the Holy
>> Grail of meteorites and it contains what many scientists agree is
>> proof that life once existed on Mars.  As the latest papers have
>> revealed, the evidence for Martian life contained in this meteorite  
>> is
>> increasingly solid.  I can't think of a more significant meteorite
>> than this one.
>>
>> #5 - Sylacauga.  Mrs. Hodges would rank this one as #1.  But is it
>> more significant than ALH 84001?  In my opinion, no.  And couldn't
>> they find a photo for it?  A quick Google Image search or  
>> Encyclopedia
>> of Meteorites search reveals several.
>>
>> #4 - Sikhote Alin.  A great historical fall by all measures.  I have
>> no issue with this one, other than the obvious one - it shouldn't
>> outrank ALH-84001.
>>
>> #3 - Willamette.  Nice choice, but we are now seeing a definite bias
>> on this list towards iron meteorites.  If Willamette made the list,
>> why not one (or more) of the Cape York masses?  Heck, Murchison is
>> certainly more significant than this one.
>>
>> #2 - Hoba.   The world's biggest iron and it certainly belongs on the
>> list.  But if Hoba was selected, then why not Canyon Diablo?   The
>> glaring absence of Canyon Diablo is also made more curious by the
>> inclusion of Willamette.
>>
>> #1 - Tunguska! ......a non-meteorite.  This one is an odd choice.
>> First, it's not a meteorite, it's an impact event.  It was probably
>> caused by a meteorite or comet, but no meteorites were recovered.   
>> And
>> if we are going to include an impact event, why not Canyon Diablo?   
>> CD
>> is more recognizable to the target audience of this list and there  
>> are
>> tons of iron meteorites laying around to show for it.   And if we are
>> going to include speculative comets like Tunguska, then why not  
>> Tagish
>> Lake?
>>
>> It's a fun list, but you can tell an intern put it together and not
>> someone familiar with meteorites.
>>
>> Best regards and Happy New Year!
>>
>> MikeG
>>
>>
>> On 12/31/09, Meteorites USA<eric at meteoritesusa.com>  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> Did anyone read the Science Channel's Top Ten Meteorites of All  
>>> Time list?
>>> http://science.discovery.com/top-ten/2009/meteors/meteors.html
>>>
>>> My article on MeteoriteBlog.com
>>> http://meteoriteblog.com/top-ten-meteorites-of-all-time-science-channel/
>>>
>>> Opinions?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Eric Wichman
>>> Meteorites USA
>>> Meteorite Blog
>>> Meteorite Wiki
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman       phone: (703) 648-6184
> US Geological Survey          fax:   (703) 648-6383
> 954 National Center
> Reston, VA 20192, USA
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From searchingforfun at sbcglobal.net  Thu Dec 31 17:57:37 2009
From: searchingforfun at sbcglobal.net (Brian Cox)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 16:57:37 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Happy New Year!!
Message-ID: <91A5595FADBA47A39EDCB108C3D96282@user6e6e286533>

 Happy New Year  ..... I wish you all much Peace, Happiness, Love, Joy and 
Prosperity in 2010  !!!!!!!   and meteorites too...    ;-) 


From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Thu Dec 31 18:01:35 2009
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 18:01:35 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Science Channel's Top Ten Meteorites Of All
	Time
In-Reply-To: <4B3D2692.1030709@meteoritesusa.com>
References: <4B3CFE86.1020707@meteoritesusa.com>
	<e51421550912311253v1ddd628fw9a434e0e4fdcef1f@mail.gmail.com>
	<93aaac890912311359o35b27ff5ud06b29f997798633@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B3D2692.1030709@meteoritesusa.com>
Message-ID: <e51421550912311501o64d0dc4rdd26d52a676a351b@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Folks,

Yeah, I was being arbitrary in my observations to that list.  It did
generate some fun and useful discussion, so the writer(s) succeeded on
that count.  :)

About ALH 84001 - When NASA made that infamous press conference
announcement back in 1996, there were some strong questions about the
evidence.  Many scientists were skeptical and a lot of work remained
to be done.  Well, it's 14 years later and a ton of research has been
done on this specimen since then.  One by one, the objections to the
evidence are falling away as new data comes to light.   I'd love to
hear someone closer to the subject present some opinion on this, but
it is my understanding that the current consensus is leaning ever
closer towards positive proof of former life on Mars.  It's the
closest thing to a "smoking gun" that we have and when it's taken into
a larger context of what we know about Mars, it's a big crucial piece
of the puzzle that fits neatly into place.  A collector's specimen
would go - this meteorite has everything a find could possibly have.
It's truly a Holy Grail that any of us would jump at the chance of
owning the tiniest Bessey Speck.  And as Jason said, even if the
"evidence" turns out to be false or terrestrial contamination, it's
still a very interesting shergottite.

Jason - point taken about Orgueil.  It's a pity we don't have an
Allende-like TKW of Orgueil laying around.   I take back what I said
about a bias towards irons on the list.  Let's take a look at the list
again -

Carbonaceous chondrites - 3 (Allende, Murchison, Orgueil)
Irons - 3 (Sikhote Alin, Willamette, Hoba)
Ordinary chondrites - 2 (Peekskill, Sylacauga)
Planetary achondrites - 1 (ALH 84001)
Non-meteorite - 1 (Tunguska)

3 of the top 4 entries are irons and 3 of the top 3 meteorites are irons.
2 ordinary chondrites made the list because they are hammer falls.
Only one planetary and no lunar entry.

Noticeably absent are pallasites.  Sikhote made the list, in part,
because of it's aesthetic appeal.  If aesthetics is taken into
account, then a variety of pallasites are standing in line waiting for
inclusion on that list.  No HEDO's are present - surely a piece of
asteroid Vesta merits making the list.

Of course, this is a "top-10 list", so it's hard to pick only 10
meteorites out of thousands of candidates, but perhaps the irons and
carbonaceous types could have been reduced to 1 entry each and the
remaining 4 entries spread about to include other interesting types
like lunars and pallasites.

Tunguska should have been an honorable mention, at best.

Best regards and Happy New Year!  (I hope 2010 is a lot better than 2009 was!)

MikeG





The

On 12/31/09, Meteorites USA <eric at meteoritesusa.com> wrote:
> Mike, List,
>
> Perhaps the point of the Top Ten list is not to make a Top Ten list at
> all, but rather a conversation piece and publicity generating article
> simply to gain traffic. I mean we are after all speaking about it at
> length and have done so in the past as well...
>
> @Jason - In regards to ALH 84001, on the contrary. The difference
> between proven and unproven is irrelevant. The point is the "evidence"
> and "possibility" is there, which no other meteorite has, and that by
> itself should make it the most important meteorite (for now at least),
> regardless of whether it is solid proof of life. Does that make sense?
> If by chance science is wrong and it's not proof of extraterrestrial
> life it can be removed from the top of the list easily enough.
>
> I guess importance is subjective to personal preference and not science.
>
> Regards,
> Eric
>
>
>
> On 12/31/2009 1:59 PM, Jason Utas wrote:
>> Hello Mike,
>> On the contrary, Orguiel is a CI1, and is thus one of the most
>> primitive pieces of matter on the planet.  It hasn't experienced
>> temperatures above about 200C - and contains a multitude of complex
>> organic molecules, just like Murchison.  The only reason more work
>> hasn't been done on it is because there's simply not that much to go
>> around - it's much less common than its Australian rival.
>> But, yes, perhaps Tagish lake should belong on the list, as it *is*
>> the freshest available sample of such material available to modern
>> science.  And Orgueil's historic, to boot!  Great rock, that.
>> Such meteorites likely contained the building blocks of the earliest
>> organisms, as they seeded planets that, science tells us, would have
>> been devoid of complex organic molecules and water, those compounds
>> that are so necessary for the existence of life as we know it.
>>
>>
>>> #2 - Hoba.   The world's biggest iron and it certainly belongs on the
>>> list.  But if Hoba was selected, then why not Canyon Diablo?   The
>>> glaring absence of Canyon Diablo is also made more curious by the
>>> inclusion of Willamette.
>>>
>> That's all very well, but I don't know what you mean by a bias towards
>> irons.  The only one I see that doesn't belong is Wilamette, and I
>> think we're in agreement that it should be replaced by either Canyon
>> Diablo or Campo del Cielo.
>>
>> Also, the whole "life" in ALH 84001 thing...it could well be, but
>> until that's proven, I don't think you can really say it's the most
>> important meteorite that we have.  It could be proof of
>> extraterrestrial life, but it might just be a cool Shergottite.  Until
>> that's *proven,* you're just looking at another Port Orford, or a
>> Chinguetti of the scientific world, so to speak.
>>
>> But we're degenerating into making personal lists of ten again...there
>> it goes....
>>
>> Regards,
>> Jason
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 12:53 PM, Galactic Stone&  Ironworks
>> <meteoritemike at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Eric and List,
>>>
>>> An interesting little presentation, but I don't agree with some of the
>>> entries on the list.
>>>
>>> Let's start from #10 and work our way to the top.
>>>
>>> #10 - Allende.  Allende certainly belongs on the list, but I think it
>>> may merit a higher rank than #10.
>>>
>>> #9 - Murchison.  This one also belongs on the list, and based on the
>>> science alone, it should rank in the top 3 or top 5.  Murchison has
>>> taught us much and it deserves a higher rank.
>>>
>>> #8 - Peekskill.  A fine hammer fall and a great witnessed fall.  I
>>> have no issues with this one, but Murchison should rank higher than
>>> Peekskill.
>>>
>>> #7 - Orgueil.  Historical falls from previous centuries opens a whole
>>> new can of worms.  If Orgueil is included, why not L'Aigle?  Or why
>>> not another type fall like Nakhla?  No offense to Orgueil, but this
>>> one is dubious entry on a list that is directed towards the mainstream
>>> lay-public audience.
>>>
>>> #6 - ALH 84001.  This one should be #1 in my opinion.  It is the Holy
>>> Grail of meteorites and it contains what many scientists agree is
>>> proof that life once existed on Mars.  As the latest papers have
>>> revealed, the evidence for Martian life contained in this meteorite is
>>> increasingly solid.  I can't think of a more significant meteorite
>>> than this one.
>>>
>>> #5 - Sylacauga.  Mrs. Hodges would rank this one as #1.  But is it
>>> more significant than ALH 84001?  In my opinion, no.  And couldn't
>>> they find a photo for it?  A quick Google Image search or Encyclopedia
>>> of Meteorites search reveals several.
>>>
>>> #4 - Sikhote Alin.  A great historical fall by all measures.  I have
>>> no issue with this one, other than the obvious one - it shouldn't
>>> outrank ALH-84001.
>>>
>>> #3 - Willamette.  Nice choice, but we are now seeing a definite bias
>>> on this list towards iron meteorites.  If Willamette made the list,
>>> why not one (or more) of the Cape York masses?  Heck, Murchison is
>>> certainly more significant than this one.
>>>
>>> #2 - Hoba.   The world's biggest iron and it certainly belongs on the
>>> list.  But if Hoba was selected, then why not Canyon Diablo?   The
>>> glaring absence of Canyon Diablo is also made more curious by the
>>> inclusion of Willamette.
>>>
>>> #1 - Tunguska! ......a non-meteorite.  This one is an odd choice.
>>> First, it's not a meteorite, it's an impact event.  It was probably
>>> caused by a meteorite or comet, but no meteorites were recovered.  And
>>> if we are going to include an impact event, why not Canyon Diablo?  CD
>>> is more recognizable to the target audience of this list and there are
>>> tons of iron meteorites laying around to show for it.   And if we are
>>> going to include speculative comets like Tunguska, then why not Tagish
>>> Lake?
>>>
>>> It's a fun list, but you can tell an intern put it together and not
>>> someone familiar with meteorites.
>>>
>>> Best regards and Happy New Year!
>>>
>>> MikeG
>>>
>>>
>>> On 12/31/09, Meteorites USA<eric at meteoritesusa.com>  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi All,
>>>>
>>>> Did anyone read the Science Channel's Top Ten Meteorites of All Time
>>>> list?
>>>> http://science.discovery.com/top-ten/2009/meteors/meteors.html
>>>>
>>>> My article on MeteoriteBlog.com
>>>> http://meteoriteblog.com/top-ten-meteorites-of-all-time-science-channel/
>>>>
>>>> Opinions?
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Eric Wichman
>>>> Meteorites USA
>>>> Meteorite Blog
>>>> Meteorite Wiki
>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>
>>>>
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>>
>


From edwinthompson at comcast.net  Thu Dec 31 18:10:58 2009
From: edwinthompson at comcast.net (edwinthompson at comcast.net)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 23:10:58 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [meteorite-list] favorite meteorite list
Message-ID: <1766371561.6674281262301058652.JavaMail.root@sz0040a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>




I could only get my list of favorites down to twenty. In a word I simply think of these meteorites as 'cool'. 



Allan Hills 84001

Allende

Almahata Sitta

Angra Dos Reis

Axtell

D'Orbigny

Governador Valadares

Gujba

Ibitira

Krymka

Lodran

Murchison

Nahkla

Orgueil

Renazzo

Serra De Mage

Sikhote-Alin

Tagish Lake

Vigarano

Zag







Edwin



From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Thu Dec 31 18:17:25 2009
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 15:17:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] China's Antarctic Expedition Team Finds First
	Meteorite at Glove Mountain
Message-ID: <200912312317.nBVNHPZn014201@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>


http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2009-12/31/content_12733922.htm

China's Antarctic expedition team finds first meteorite at Glove Mountain
www.chinaview.cn

    GLOVE MOUNTAIN, Antarctica, Dec. 30 (Xinhua) -- China's 26th
Antarctic expedition team discovered its first meteorite at Antarctica's
Glove Mountain Wednesday afternoon.

    The team found the meteorite at the southern foot of Glove
Mountain's peak, said Dr. Hu Sen, a researcher at the Institute of
Geology and Geophysics of the Chinese Academy of Sciences.

    "It is highly probable (that it is) a Chondrite judging from the
failure surface," said Hu, adding that the meteorite weighed 221.5 grams.

    Efflorescence makes it hard for meteorites to stay in densely
populated areas, Hu explained, but they could last for millions of years
in Antarctica's dry, cold weather.

    Many of such meteorites were stopped by the mountains as they were
carried along by running glaciers, he said. Therefore, a lot of
meteorites could be found around the Antarctic mountain areas.

    The Glove Mountain area, 400 km from China's Zhongshan Station, has
proved to be one of the world's richest meteorite reserves. China has so
far discovered 9,834 meteorites, including two Martian and several other
special types of meteorites -- the third largest meteorite collection
after Japan and the United States.



From jgrossman at usgs.gov  Thu Dec 31 18:27:39 2009
From: jgrossman at usgs.gov (Jeff Grossman)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 18:27:39 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] China's Antarctic Expedition Team Finds First
 Meteorite at Glove Mountain
In-Reply-To: <200912312317.nBVNHPZn014201@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>
References: <200912312317.nBVNHPZn014201@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>
Message-ID: <4B3D336B.9000701@usgs.gov>

That's GROVE Mountains.  Looks like a transliteration problem.

Jeff

On 2009-12-31 6:17 PM, Ron Baalke wrote:
> http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2009-12/31/content_12733922.htm
>
> China's Antarctic expedition team finds first meteorite at Glove Mountain
> www.chinaview.cn
>
>      GLOVE MOUNTAIN, Antarctica, Dec. 30 (Xinhua) -- China's 26th
> Antarctic expedition team discovered its first meteorite at Antarctica's
> Glove Mountain Wednesday afternoon.
>
>      The team found the meteorite at the southern foot of Glove
> Mountain's peak, said Dr. Hu Sen, a researcher at the Institute of
> Geology and Geophysics of the Chinese Academy of Sciences.
>
>      "It is highly probable (that it is) a Chondrite judging from the
> failure surface," said Hu, adding that the meteorite weighed 221.5 grams.
>
>      Efflorescence makes it hard for meteorites to stay in densely
> populated areas, Hu explained, but they could last for millions of years
> in Antarctica's dry, cold weather.
>
>      Many of such meteorites were stopped by the mountains as they were
> carried along by running glaciers, he said. Therefore, a lot of
> meteorites could be found around the Antarctic mountain areas.
>
>      The Glove Mountain area, 400 km from China's Zhongshan Station, has
> proved to be one of the world's richest meteorite reserves. China has so
> far discovered 9,834 meteorites, including two Martian and several other
> special types of meteorites -- the third largest meteorite collection
> after Japan and the United States.
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>    


-- 
Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman       phone: (703) 648-6184
US Geological Survey          fax:   (703) 648-6383
954 National Center
Reston, VA 20192, USA




From mfcollecter at yahoo.com  Thu Dec 31 18:22:22 2009
From: mfcollecter at yahoo.com (Said Haddany)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 15:22:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Happy New Year
Message-ID: <823986.49036.qm@web34302.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi list members,
HAPPY NEW YEAR 2010 to all the list members .
BONNE ET HEUREUSE ANNEE 2010 a tous le monde .

? Said Haddany


      


From mmurray at montrose.net  Thu Dec 31 19:55:39 2009
From: mmurray at montrose.net (Michael Murray)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 17:55:39 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] [COMETS] Happy New Year
In-Reply-To: <693f.79cb868.386e81d0@aol.com>
References: <693f.79cb868.386e81d0@aol.com>
Message-ID: <62CC6C7B-DFA1-4979-9938-EA09E5661AA0@montrose.net>

Hi Anne,
And a Happy New Year to you too!  I just retired today so I'm going  
into 2010 not knowing what's ahead but I'm really getting excited.   
Maybe now, I will finally get a chance to take a few trips to hunt  
meteorites like I have wanted to do for some time now.
I hope the new year is a banner year for all the meteorite dealers.
Keep all that snow over there, will ya?  We had a beautiful day over  
here today on the western slope.  Didn't mind the shirt sleeve  
temperatures at all.
All the best to you Anne, and to all the other Comet Club members.
Now back to celebrating my last day on the job.
Mike in Montrose


On Dec 31, 2009, at 3:38 PM, Impactika at aol.com wrote:

>
>
> Happy New Year to all List members!
>
> May 2010 bring you many more meteorites and anything else you desire.
>
> And most of all:
> May 2010 bring us all a lot of Peace, Calm and Quiet everywhere  
> around our
> blue globe.
>
> (from snowy Denver Colorado.
> Still many hours from the New Year.)
>
> Anne M. Black
> http://www.impactika.com/
> IMPACTIKA at aol.com
> Vice-President, I.M.C.A. Inc.
> http://www.imca.cc/
>
> __._,_.___
> Reply to sender | Reply to group
> Messages in this topic (2)
> RECENT ACTIVITY:
> Visit Your Group Start a New Topic
> MARKETPLACE
> Going Green: Your Yahoo! Groups resource for green living
>
> Going Green: Your Yahoo! Groups resource for green living
>
>
> Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest ? Unsubscribe ? Terms of Use
> .
>
> __,_._,___



From garychase at live.com  Thu Dec 31 20:37:50 2009
From: garychase at live.com (Gary Chase)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 17:37:50 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Buzzard Coulee Permitting Snafu
In-Reply-To: <7b3de7a3$52fc0b09$756f9096$@com>
References: <7b3de7a3$52fc0b09$756f9096$@com>
Message-ID: <COL106-W56B4C0BC8868A9E6AF9161D2770@phx.gbl>


Thanks for the "heads up" Mccartney.  I think I will wait for the ones you and Sonny collected before the snow.  No use taking any chances on rusting issues.
 
Gary
 
 
> From: mccartney at blackbearddata.com
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 13:24:33 -0600
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Buzzard Coulee Permitting Snafu
> 
> Sonny and I were at Buzzard Coul?e the week it fell, as you all know. We recovered a good number of stones before the big snow hit. Permits were then applied for.
> 
> I returned as the snow melted in April. I alone recovered hundreds of stones, giving half to the landowner, I still had over 2kg. These post winter stones were submitted for exportation as well. 
> 
> The Export Tribunal repeatedly delayed export and lumped the early permit with the later permit, then delayed both again and lumped those permit apps with other export apps from other hunters.
> 
> Finally, the Tribunal noted that there was a good deal of material so the very late permit apps are apparently getting approved with no hold-back delays. Hence, Geoff Notkin and others have received their stones.
> 
> Ya, ya, I know it is not fair, but that's how the cookie crumbles.
> 
> As best I can tell, my stones will be arriving in March 2010. I recovered many that have orientation, most complete individuals 10-30g, and a few 50,100, 150 g stones. They will be available on www.outofabluesky.com at that time.
> 
> The in situ stone pics and photos of the trip are on picassa 
> http://picasaweb.google.com/mccartneytaylor
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141665/direct/01/

From cdtucson at cox.net  Thu Dec 31 20:15:31 2009
From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 20:15:31 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Science Channel's Top Ten Meteorites Of All
 Time
In-Reply-To: <4B3D19B5.3070409@usgs.gov>
Message-ID: <20091231201531.8G13H.7210.imail@fed1rmwml35>

Jeff, List,
Good list but, I would have to squeeze Carancas in there somewhere. Very few meteorites have posed as many questions 
while at the same time providing 
many new answers.  Too many to list here but it has all the bells and whistles to go along with  the Scientific  interests. 
Carl
--
Carl or Debbie Esparza
Meteoritemax


---- Jeff Grossman <jgrossman at usgs.gov> wrote: 
> My top 10 most important meteorites of the last 250 years, off the top 
> of my head, in alphabetical order -
> 
> Allan Hills A81005
> Allan Hills 84001
> Allende
> Canyon Diablo
> Elephant Moraine A79001
> L'Aigle
> Murchison
> Orgueil
> Semarkona
> Siena
> 
> Peekskill, Sylacauga, Willamette and Hoba aren't even close, and no more 
> needs to be said about Tunguska, which would make my list if any were 
> actually found.  I wanted to put Pribram on the list, but couldn't fit 
> it into the top 10.  Yamato 691 was also tempting.
> 
> Jeff
> 
> On 2009-12-31 3:53 PM, Galactic Stone & Ironworks wrote:
> > Hi Eric and List,
> >
> > An interesting little presentation, but I don't agree with some of the
> > entries on the list.
> >
> > Let's start from #10 and work our way to the top.
> >
> > #10 - Allende.  Allende certainly belongs on the list, but I think it
> > may merit a higher rank than #10.
> >
> > #9 - Murchison.  This one also belongs on the list, and based on the
> > science alone, it should rank in the top 3 or top 5.  Murchison has
> > taught us much and it deserves a higher rank.
> >
> > #8 - Peekskill.  A fine hammer fall and a great witnessed fall.  I
> > have no issues with this one, but Murchison should rank higher than
> > Peekskill.
> >
> > #7 - Orgueil.  Historical falls from previous centuries opens a whole
> > new can of worms.  If Orgueil is included, why not L'Aigle?  Or why
> > not another type fall like Nakhla?  No offense to Orgueil, but this
> > one is dubious entry on a list that is directed towards the mainstream
> > lay-public audience.
> >
> > #6 - ALH 84001.  This one should be #1 in my opinion.  It is the Holy
> > Grail of meteorites and it contains what many scientists agree is
> > proof that life once existed on Mars.  As the latest papers have
> > revealed, the evidence for Martian life contained in this meteorite is
> > increasingly solid.  I can't think of a more significant meteorite
> > than this one.
> >
> > #5 - Sylacauga.  Mrs. Hodges would rank this one as #1.  But is it
> > more significant than ALH 84001?  In my opinion, no.  And couldn't
> > they find a photo for it?  A quick Google Image search or Encyclopedia
> > of Meteorites search reveals several.
> >
> > #4 - Sikhote Alin.  A great historical fall by all measures.  I have
> > no issue with this one, other than the obvious one - it shouldn't
> > outrank ALH-84001.
> >
> > #3 - Willamette.  Nice choice, but we are now seeing a definite bias
> > on this list towards iron meteorites.  If Willamette made the list,
> > why not one (or more) of the Cape York masses?  Heck, Murchison is
> > certainly more significant than this one.
> >
> > #2 - Hoba.   The world's biggest iron and it certainly belongs on the
> > list.  But if Hoba was selected, then why not Canyon Diablo?   The
> > glaring absence of Canyon Diablo is also made more curious by the
> > inclusion of Willamette.
> >
> > #1 - Tunguska! ......a non-meteorite.  This one is an odd choice.
> > First, it's not a meteorite, it's an impact event.  It was probably
> > caused by a meteorite or comet, but no meteorites were recovered.  And
> > if we are going to include an impact event, why not Canyon Diablo?  CD
> > is more recognizable to the target audience of this list and there are
> > tons of iron meteorites laying around to show for it.   And if we are
> > going to include speculative comets like Tunguska, then why not Tagish
> > Lake?
> >
> > It's a fun list, but you can tell an intern put it together and not
> > someone familiar with meteorites.
> >
> > Best regards and Happy New Year!
> >
> > MikeG
> >
> >
> > On 12/31/09, Meteorites USA<eric at meteoritesusa.com>  wrote:
> >    
> >> Hi All,
> >>
> >> Did anyone read the Science Channel's Top Ten Meteorites of All Time list?
> >> http://science.discovery.com/top-ten/2009/meteors/meteors.html
> >>
> >> My article on MeteoriteBlog.com
> >> http://meteoriteblog.com/top-ten-meteorites-of-all-time-science-channel/
> >>
> >> Opinions?
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Eric Wichman
> >> Meteorites USA
> >> Meteorite Blog
> >> Meteorite Wiki
> >> ______________________________________________
> >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> >> Meteorite-list mailing list
> >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >>
> >>      
> > ______________________________________________
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >
> >    
> 
> 
> -- 
> Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman       phone: (703) 648-6184
> US Geological Survey          fax:   (703) 648-6383
> 954 National Center
> Reston, VA 20192, USA
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Thu Dec 31 21:27:03 2009
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 18:27:03 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Science Channel's Top Ten Meteorites Of All
 Time
In-Reply-To: <20091231201531.8G13H.7210.imail@fed1rmwml35>
References: <20091231201531.8G13H.7210.imail@fed1rmwml35>
Message-ID: <4B3D5D77.8000502@meteoritesusa.com>

  I would say that's a good one too simply because it's a crater maker.

Craters are cool... ;)

Regards,
Eric


On 12/31/2009 5:15 PM, cdtucson at cox.net wrote:
> Jeff, List,
> Good list but, I would have to squeeze Carancas in there somewhere. Very few meteorites have posed as many questions
> while at the same time providing
> many new answers.  Too many to list here but it has all the bells and whistles to go along with  the Scientific  interests.
> Carl
> --
> Carl or Debbie Esparza
> Meteoritemax
>
>
> ---- Jeff Grossman<jgrossman at usgs.gov>  wrote:
>    
>> My top 10 most important meteorites of the last 250 years, off the top
>> of my head, in alphabetical order -
>>
>> Allan Hills A81005
>> Allan Hills 84001
>> Allende
>> Canyon Diablo
>> Elephant Moraine A79001
>> L'Aigle
>> Murchison
>> Orgueil
>> Semarkona
>> Siena
>>
>> Peekskill, Sylacauga, Willamette and Hoba aren't even close, and no more
>> needs to be said about Tunguska, which would make my list if any were
>> actually found.  I wanted to put Pribram on the list, but couldn't fit
>> it into the top 10.  Yamato 691 was also tempting.
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>> On 2009-12-31 3:53 PM, Galactic Stone&  Ironworks wrote:
>>      
>>> Hi Eric and List,
>>>
>>> An interesting little presentation, but I don't agree with some of the
>>> entries on the list.
>>>
>>> Let's start from #10 and work our way to the top.
>>>
>>> #10 - Allende.  Allende certainly belongs on the list, but I think it
>>> may merit a higher rank than #10.
>>>
>>> #9 - Murchison.  This one also belongs on the list, and based on the
>>> science alone, it should rank in the top 3 or top 5.  Murchison has
>>> taught us much and it deserves a higher rank.
>>>
>>> #8 - Peekskill.  A fine hammer fall and a great witnessed fall.  I
>>> have no issues with this one, but Murchison should rank higher than
>>> Peekskill.
>>>
>>> #7 - Orgueil.  Historical falls from previous centuries opens a whole
>>> new can of worms.  If Orgueil is included, why not L'Aigle?  Or why
>>> not another type fall like Nakhla?  No offense to Orgueil, but this
>>> one is dubious entry on a list that is directed towards the mainstream
>>> lay-public audience.
>>>
>>> #6 - ALH 84001.  This one should be #1 in my opinion.  It is the Holy
>>> Grail of meteorites and it contains what many scientists agree is
>>> proof that life once existed on Mars.  As the latest papers have
>>> revealed, the evidence for Martian life contained in this meteorite is
>>> increasingly solid.  I can't think of a more significant meteorite
>>> than this one.
>>>
>>> #5 - Sylacauga.  Mrs. Hodges would rank this one as #1.  But is it
>>> more significant than ALH 84001?  In my opinion, no.  And couldn't
>>> they find a photo for it?  A quick Google Image search or Encyclopedia
>>> of Meteorites search reveals several.
>>>
>>> #4 - Sikhote Alin.  A great historical fall by all measures.  I have
>>> no issue with this one, other than the obvious one - it shouldn't
>>> outrank ALH-84001.
>>>
>>> #3 - Willamette.  Nice choice, but we are now seeing a definite bias
>>> on this list towards iron meteorites.  If Willamette made the list,
>>> why not one (or more) of the Cape York masses?  Heck, Murchison is
>>> certainly more significant than this one.
>>>
>>> #2 - Hoba.   The world's biggest iron and it certainly belongs on the
>>> list.  But if Hoba was selected, then why not Canyon Diablo?   The
>>> glaring absence of Canyon Diablo is also made more curious by the
>>> inclusion of Willamette.
>>>
>>> #1 - Tunguska! ......a non-meteorite.  This one is an odd choice.
>>> First, it's not a meteorite, it's an impact event.  It was probably
>>> caused by a meteorite or comet, but no meteorites were recovered.  And
>>> if we are going to include an impact event, why not Canyon Diablo?  CD
>>> is more recognizable to the target audience of this list and there are
>>> tons of iron meteorites laying around to show for it.   And if we are
>>> going to include speculative comets like Tunguska, then why not Tagish
>>> Lake?
>>>
>>> It's a fun list, but you can tell an intern put it together and not
>>> someone familiar with meteorites.
>>>
>>> Best regards and Happy New Year!
>>>
>>> MikeG
>>>
>>>
>>> On 12/31/09, Meteorites USA<eric at meteoritesusa.com>   wrote:
>>>
>>>        
>>>> Hi All,
>>>>
>>>> Did anyone read the Science Channel's Top Ten Meteorites of All Time list?
>>>> http://science.discovery.com/top-ten/2009/meteors/meteors.html
>>>>
>>>> My article on MeteoriteBlog.com
>>>> http://meteoriteblog.com/top-ten-meteorites-of-all-time-science-channel/
>>>>
>>>> Opinions?
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Eric Wichman
>>>> Meteorites USA
>>>> Meteorite Blog
>>>> Meteorite Wiki
>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>          
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>>>
>>>        
>>
>> -- 
>> Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman       phone: (703) 648-6184
>> US Geological Survey          fax:   (703) 648-6383
>> 954 National Center
>> Reston, VA 20192, USA
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________
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>    


From John at Cabassi.net  Thu Dec 31 21:57:03 2009
From: John at Cabassi.net (John.L.Cabassi)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 18:57:03 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Happy New Year
In-Reply-To: <693f.79cb868.386e81d0@aol.com>
Message-ID: <000001ca8a8e$193f04f0$a166fea9@anitak9bz49jy2>

G'Day Anne
I will second that.  Everyone have fun out there, be safe because 2010
opens a lot of new surprises. You've all been great.

Cheers
John & Katina

-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of
impactika at aol.com
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 2:38 PM
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com; COMeteoriteClub at yahoogroups.com
Subject: [meteorite-list] Happy New Year




Happy New Year to all List members!

May 2010 bring you many more meteorites and anything else you desire.

And most of all: 
May 2010 bring us all a lot of Peace, Calm and Quiet everywhere around
our 
blue globe.

(from snowy Denver Colorado.
Still many hours from the New Year.)

Anne M. Black
http://www.impactika.com/
IMPACTIKA at aol.com
Vice-President, I.M.C.A. Inc.
http://www.imca.cc/ ______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From magellon.ken at gmail.com  Thu Dec 31 22:11:26 2009
From: magellon.ken at gmail.com (Ken Newton)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 22:11:26 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] "Lunar" for $200/g
In-Reply-To: <551712.48534.qm@web113618.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <551712.48534.qm@web113618.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <c626e3e80912311911s2d4984cck3fdb21329e533a90@mail.gmail.com>

Richard and All,
This seller has had over a dozen "martian" and "lunar" auctions since
2007.( All of his meteorites claim "lunar" or "martian origin") His
two years of "0" feedback also inspires confidence - well it is a 100%
rating (kinda)!
Here is one of his first auctions (pdf file) http://tinyurl.com/yzeaakh
Best,
Ken Newton
meteorite-identification.com

On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 2:45 PM, Richard Kowalski <damoclid at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I found this new listing from an ebayer with no feedback for "lunar" material found this past September
>
> http://tinyurl.com/yge5uv9
>
>
> --
> Richard Kowalski
> http://fullmoonphotography.net
> IMCA #1081
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


From geoking at notkin.net  Thu Dec 31 22:46:19 2009
From: geoking at notkin.net (Notkin)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 20:46:19 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Buzzard Coulee Permitting Snafu
In-Reply-To: <COL106-W56B4C0BC8868A9E6AF9161D2770@phx.gbl>
References: <7b3de7a3$52fc0b09$756f9096$@com>
	<COL106-W56B4C0BC8868A9E6AF9161D2770@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <1D0C104B-1CAF-41E9-BABB-80C2694B6B16@notkin.net>

Gary Chase posted:

> Thanks for the "heads up" Mccartney.  I think I will wait for the  
> ones you and Sonny collected before the snow.  No use taking any  
> chances on rusting issues.


Gary:

Since your comment may cause concern among my customers I will clarify  
that there are no rusting issues with Buzzards collected by our team  
in the spring, and I will personally guarantee that. The Buzzard  
Coulee strewnfield is in Saskatchewan and it gets more than a little  
cold up there in the winter. Stones that fell in November 2008 and  
collected shortly after the spring thaw were frozen in snow for the  
duration, and still in excellent condition upon recovery, with black  
fusion crust. They have remained in that state and are not decaying in  
any way, eight months after collection.

That being said, I hope List members will support McCartney Taylor  
when his specimens make it to the US. Sonny and Mac were the pioneers  
at Buzzard and did a great job of recovering material. I am keeping a  
good number of stones for my private collection, so Aerolite only has  
a modest amount of Buzzards for sale and they'll be gone soon. There  
should be plenty of interest in this excellent meteorite to go around.

Thanks to everyone who contacted me today with inquiries. We'll be  
back in touch in short order.


Regards,

Geoff N.

www.aerolite.org
www.meteoritemen.com
www.meteoriteblog.org




From STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com  Thu Dec 31 23:41:24 2009
From: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com (STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 23:41:24 EST
Subject: [meteorite-list] Only the best microscope ever!
Message-ID: <d45.5ef006d9.386ed6f4@aol.com>

Hi List,  That's a tall lead-in typed the  Subject line.  Maybe a few 
qualifiers are in order such as polarizing  optical microscope but that's about 
it!

This microscope is listed on  eBay.  I don't know the seller and I wish I 
was in the position to add a  new scope to the family.

Many people (often list members) ask me about  "what microscope do I buy?"  
If you are going after a pleasant trip into  the world of Xpol thin section 
examination, this is one to get.  You can  spend more but you won't get 
more.  (Really, I don't know the seller!)  

Personally, I would up the light source (it has the little 35W only) but  
this is one of the microscopes designed to meet NASA's criteria for the first 
 Moon rocks.  This was the first series of scopes to use infinity focal  
length in a transmitted light set up.

Any way, check it out and email me  if you buy it!  So I can live 
vicariously through you for a  while.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180450924158&ssPageName=S
TRK:MEWAX:IT

Tom

My  micrograph gallery is at  

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180450924158&ssPageName=S
TRK:MEWAX:IT   



From michael at rocksfromspace.org  Thu Dec 31 23:49:20 2009
From: michael at rocksfromspace.org (Michael Johnson)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 20:49:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - January 1,
	2010
Message-ID: <755285648.344261262321360791.JavaMail.root@mbs1.homesteadmail.com>

http://www.rocksfromspace.org/January_1_2010.html