From bristolia at yahoo.com Sun Feb 1 01:39:11 2009 From: bristolia at yahoo.com (Paul) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 22:39:11 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Prehistoric Fluvial Transport of Libyan Desert Glass From Original Impact Structure Message-ID: <336825.21917.qm@web36205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Ramirez-Cardona, M., A. El-Barkooky, M. Hamdan, K. Flores-Castro, N. I. Jimenez-Martinez, and M. Mendoza-Espinosa, 2008, On the Libyan Desert Silica Glass (LDSG) transport model from a hypothetical impact structure. PIS-01 General contributions to impact structures, International Geological Congress Oslo 2008, Oslo, Norway. "Fragments of this glass are mostly scattered upon the exposed bedrock of Nubia group (cretaceous sandstone), on a large surface area along wide corridors between dunes of the Great Sand Sea (SW of Egypt). This distribution is somewhat the result of the tektite fluvial transport occurring throughout the Oligocene-Miocene boundary." http://www.cprm.gov.br/33IGC/1350834.html PIS-01 General contributions to impact structures http://www.cprm.gov.br/33IGC/Sess_303.html International Geological Congress Oslo 2008 http://www.cprm.gov.br/33IGC/index.html Yours, Paul H. From thomasmeteorites at wanadoo.fr Sun Feb 1 01:49:27 2009 From: thomasmeteorites at wanadoo.fr (Philippe Thomas) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 07:49:27 +0100 (CET) Subject: [meteorite-list] Tamdakht classification Message-ID: <11820061.168317.1233470967477.JavaMail.www@wwinf1b36> For those who are interested, I updated my page on Tamdakht and added a Back Scattered Electrons (BSE) image supplied by Albert Jambon. - We know that it is an H according to: 1) The magnetic susceptibility (= quantity of metal) 2) the composition of minerals (olivine + pyroxene) - The metamorphic type 5 (to verify) depends on the degree of equilibration between minerals and (in the second order) of the texture (not only chondrules, but also size of feldspars and metal-sulphide areas). Here it is certain that it is neither a type 3 nor a type 6. A preliminary declaration was sent to the MetSoc, result of the French-Moroccan cooperation. Best wishes, Philippe http://www.meteoritica.com/tamdaght.html From pierremariepele at yahoo.fr Sun Feb 1 03:19:18 2009 From: pierremariepele at yahoo.fr (=?iso-8859-1?q?Pel=E9=20Pierre-Marie?=) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 09:19:18 +0100 (CET) Subject: [meteorite-list] Encyclopedia of meteorites website has a new owner Message-ID: <228747.4996.qm@web23004.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hello to the List, I'm proud to announce the winner of the Encyclopedia-of-meteorites website. The winner is... The IMCA (International Meteorite Collectors Association) I'm sure the IMCA will do a great job on the encyclopedia. Sorry for the other bidders. Pierre-Marie Pele From illaenus at wp.pl Sun Feb 1 05:52:23 2009 From: illaenus at wp.pl (Tomasz Jakubowski) Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2009 11:52:23 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] [AD] Oriented chondrites Message-ID: <49857ee7b11f56.22021155@wp.pl> Dear List Members, I have beautiful oriented, fresh chondrites from Sahara desert. Both of specimen are full oriented, with radial flow lines, rollover lips and fresh fusion cust. First of them have 485 grams. Amazing orientation!! I purchased this specimen 2 years ago in Rissani. http://picasaweb.google.pl/illaenus/NWAOriented485Grams# Second piece have 435 grams : http://picasaweb.google.pl/illaenus/NWAOriented435G# Offers and questions please send direct to - illaenus at gmail.com Kind Regards Tomasz Jakubowski IMCA #2321 -- Free Tibet ---------------------------------------------------- Bestseller roku 2008 w Empiku! Przeczytaj "Gr? anio?a" Carlosa Ruiz Zafona http://klik.wp.pl/?adr=http%3A%2F%2Fcorto.www.wp.pl%2Fas%2Fgraaniola.html&sid=630 From michael at spacerocksinc.com Sun Feb 1 06:19:11 2009 From: michael at spacerocksinc.com (Michael Johnson) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 03:19:11 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - February 1, 2009 Message-ID: <10747095.301641233487151166.JavaMail.root@mbs5.homesteadmail.com> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/February_1_2009.html From drtanuki at yahoo.com Sun Feb 1 07:05:03 2009 From: drtanuki at yahoo.com (drtanuki) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 04:05:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] FW:AD: Blaine Reed Meteorites Message-ID: <331309.7726.qm@web53212.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Attached is a forwarded AD posting from Blaine Reed Meteorites. Thank you Michael for the YouTube production! http://of-time-and-space.blogspot.com/ From rockhoundm at abaconet.com.ar Sun Feb 1 08:10:37 2009 From: rockhoundm at abaconet.com.ar (Eduardo.) Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2009 10:10:37 -0300 Subject: [meteorite-list] Tucson show - Room changed In-Reply-To: <49857ee7b11f56.22021155@wp.pl> Message-ID: Hi I am finally in ROOM 136 (not 139 as printed in the guides or 146 as had to be). Hotel is the EXECUTIVE INN HOTEL, at Drachman and Main, just a few blocks north from the Innsuites. I will be visiting the InnSuites but my friend Eduardo will be at the room if anyone stop by today. Hope to see many of you this year. Eduardo From drtanuki at yahoo.com Sun Feb 1 08:40:29 2009 From: drtanuki at yahoo.com (drtanuki) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 05:40:29 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] FWD: Re: AD Blaine Reed meteorites Tucson...sorry weblink was to wrong website Message-ID: <692129.38940.qm@web53211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> http://of-space-and-time.blogspot.com/ Sorry, Dirk Ross...Tokyo From info at niger-meteorite-recon.de Sun Feb 1 10:34:11 2009 From: info at niger-meteorite-recon.de (Meteorite-Recon.com) Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2009 16:34:11 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Additional report on the Tamdakht meteorite fall Message-ID: <6523249.1633921233502451487.JavaMail.servlet@kundenserver> Good Morning everybody, After reading through the various posts on the subject, private correspondence, media reports, field photos, coordinates and information streaming in from Morocco, I personally have arrived at the conclusion that Tamdakht is a meteorite fall, which is much better documented than similar events of the past. I appreciate the work the Morrocan enthusiasts, hunters and dealers have accomplished. Particularly as they were able to locate the fall site before the heavy rains in mid January. Philippe Thomas was already so kind to share information on his website and I think he did a great job in giving an accurate picture. I too had the fortune to receive 1st hand reports from the field from our Moroccan friends and I have compiled these in the report published here: http://www.meteorite-recon.com/en/meteorite%20tamdaght%202.htm The report also contains the English translation of the article in "Al Masah" from December 28. Note that the article speaks of a similar fireball sighting in Tunesia from December 18. The Tunesian fireball also produced seismic shock waves. This may become interesting should fresh finds from Tunesia become public in the near future. I may add a few personal thoughts on issues discussed here on the list, regarding the Tamdakht fall and its recovery: "the impact was heard" Several witnesses, including those interviewd by the newspaper "Al Masah" stated that a "seismic shock wave was heard and the ground was shaking at the "collision of the celestial body with a mountain." At that time the location of the potential touchdown was still unknown. It is most probable that eye witnesses, unfamiliar with meteoritic phenomena, presumed that such sounds could only be caused by an explosion due to an impact. Anybody who has ever done an interview with an eyewitness of a meteorite fall will recognize this assumption as it is quite common. "the crater vs. impact pit issue" There has been some confusion regarding field images from the Tamdakht area. It is very common to hear "pit" or "hole" translated as "crater". We had that with the Hosur fall and the Bassikounou fall, where eye witnesses and official sources reported "craters" that were in fact an impact pits, or impact holes. This is particularly an issue when reports in Arab or French are translated into English, but there are probably a number of other languages that do not provide capability to distinguish between both terms precisely. "chondrules vs no chondrules" Anyone who had the chance to study material of the Tamdakht fall will agree that the material differs enough from the known Mahgreb falls to distinguish it from other material circulating. Most fractured surfaces show chondrules, although they are usually small (1-2mm) and are quite fading with the surrounding matrix. Some fractured surfaces show slickensides on which there are no chondrules to see, which explains the comment of a honored list member, who did not find chondrules on the fractured surfaces of his specimen. Any larger polished cut surface will show well defined chondrules in good contrast. We will continue the report on our website with additional informatio and I am looking forward to hear impressions on the new material from Tucson. Thanks for your interest Svend www.meteorite-recon.com -- www.meteorite-recon.com From drtanuki at yahoo.com Sun Feb 1 10:36:11 2009 From: drtanuki at yahoo.com (drtanuki) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 07:36:11 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Latest news on Moroc Fall posted 1FEB09 Message-ID: <914373.42387.qm@web53205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Dear List, The Latest news on Moroc Fall posted 1FEB09. Thank you to Dr. Svend Buhl. Please scroll down there are other posts that I have not posted to the Metlist. Thank you. Dirk Ross..Tokyo http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.com/ From info at niger-meteorite-recon.de Sun Feb 1 10:37:01 2009 From: info at niger-meteorite-recon.de (Meteorite-Recon.com) Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2009 16:37:01 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] FW: Additional report on the Tamdakht meteorite fall - correction Message-ID: <28906286.1634171233502621098.JavaMail.servlet@kundenserver> sorry, wrong link, it should have read like this: http://www.meteorite-recon.com/en/meteorite%20tamdaght%201.htm Svend ---------------- Good Morning everybody, After reading through the various posts on the subject, private correspondence, media reports, field photos, coordinates and information streaming in from Morocco, I personally have arrived at the conclusion that Tamdakht is a meteorite fall, which is much better documented than similar events of the past. I appreciate the work the Morrocan enthusiasts, hunters and dealers have accomplished. Particularly as they were able to locate the fall site before the heavy rains in mid January. Philippe Thomas was already so kind to share information on his website and I think he did a great job in giving an accurate picture. I too had the fortune to receive 1st hand reports from the field from our Moroccan friends and I have compiled these in the report published here: http://www.meteorite-recon.com/en/meteorite%20tamdaght%202.htm The report also contains the English translation of the article in "Al Masah" from December 28. Note that the article speaks of a similar fireball sighting in Tunesia from December 18. The Tunesian fireball also produced seismic shock waves. This may become interesting should fresh finds from Tunesia become public in the near future. I may add a few personal thoughts on issues discussed here on the list, regarding the Tamdakht fall and its recovery: "the impact was heard" Several witnesses, including those interviewd by the newspaper "Al Masah" stated that a "seismic shock wave was heard and the ground was shaking at the "collision of the celestial body with a mountain." At that time the location of the potential touchdown was still unknown. It is most probable that eye witnesses, unfamiliar with meteoritic phenomena, presumed that such sounds could only be caused by an explosion due to an impact. Anybody who has ever done an interview with an eyewitness of a meteorite fall will recognize this assumption as it is quite common. "the crater vs. impact pit issue" There has been some confusion regarding field images from the Tamdakht area. It is very common to hear "pit" or "hole" translated as "crater". We had that with the Hosur fall and the Bassikounou fall, where eye witnesses and official sources reported "craters" that were in fact an impact pits, or impact holes. This is particularly an issue when reports in Arab or French are translated into English, but there are probably a number of other languages that do not provide capability to distinguish between both terms precisely. "chondrules vs no chondrules" Anyone who had the chance to study material of the Tamdakht fall will agree that the material differs enough from the known Mahgreb falls to distinguish it from other material circulating. Most fractured surfaces show chondrules, although they are usually small (1-2mm) and are quite fading with the surrounding matrix. Some fractured surfaces show slickensides on which there are no chondrules to see, which explains the comment of a honored list member, who did not find chondrules on the fractured surfaces of his specimen. Any larger polished cut surface will show well defined chondrules in good contrast. We will continue the report on our website with additional informatio and I am looking forward to hear impressions on the new material from Tucson. Thanks for your interest Svend www.meteorite-recon.com From michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com Sun Feb 1 11:12:25 2009 From: michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com (Michael Gilmer) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 08:12:25 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] [AD] Oriented chondrites In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <7336.64596.qm@web58402.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi Tomasz! What a SPECTACULAR oriented stone! That first stone is absolutely beautiful. I cannot afford to buy, but it sure is fun to window shop. ;) Best regards and clear skies, MikeG ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... Message: 14 Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2009 11:52:23 +0100 From: "Tomasz Jakubowski" Subject: [meteorite-list] [AD] Oriented chondrites To: meteorite-list Message-ID: <49857ee7b11f56.22021155 at wp.pl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Dear List Members, I have beautiful oriented, fresh chondrites from Sahara desert. Both of specimen are full oriented, with radial flow lines, rollover lips and fresh fusion cust. First of them have 485 grams. Amazing orientation!! I purchased this specimen 2 years ago in Rissani. http://picasaweb.google.pl/illaenus/NWAOriented485Grams# Second piece have 435 grams : http://picasaweb.google.pl/illaenus/NWAOriented435G# Offers and questions please send direct to - illaenus at gmail.com Kind Regards Tomasz Jakubowski IMCA #2321 -- Free Tibet ---------------------------------------------------- From yellowengine at earthlink.net Sun Feb 1 11:59:46 2009 From: yellowengine at earthlink.net (RJP) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 10:59:46 -0600 (GMT-06:00) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Dhofar 910 Lunar - Lowest Price! Message-ID: <8719009.1233507586679.JavaMail.root@elwamui-norfolk.atl.sa.earthlink.net> I remember a week or so ago, someone mentioned that Dhofar 910 could not be found for less than ~$775/g. Well, here you go... "a cure for the Tucson blues", a "super Bowl Special".. as some dealers proclaim. Dhofar 910 - 0.74g thin slice, dimensions of 23 X 9 X 2mm. Large clast of anorthosite, gas bubbles, ect. $675 per gram plus fifty cent!.. Priority Mail postage. This is my rock bottom price. See photos here: http://outdoors.webshots.com/album/569165160RMTnOx Please email with additional questions and/or to obtain larger photos. Thanks! Ryan Pawelski From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Sun Feb 1 12:27:35 2009 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 18:27:35 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Special NWA 5475 a fine, low-shocked CK Message-ID: <00ff01c98492$5ff456f0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Dear collectors, High time for a Special to assuage the melancholy of the stay-at-homes, who longingly watch the pictures and videos of the ongoing show in sunny Tucson. To warm the collector's heart we pitch on today a fine and new CK4/5: NWA 5475 Among the carbonaceous chondrites the CKs belong into the family of the CVs and COs (and in fact with TNZ 057 and NWA 2900 we have breccias on hand, which probably are composed by CK and CV material). The main differences are, that the CKs contain much less carbon, visually they can be told apart by the small number of chondrules, also CAIs are very sparsely found and their often dull appearance. That darkness is caused mainly by iron oxides, as CKs show a higher oxidation than CVs and Cos, and sulfides; additionally they often are darkened by shock. But with NWA 5475 we have now a member of that group, which is with S1 only very weekly shocked. Noticeably it displays very distinct chondrules and seems to have more of them than many of the other CKs. With a weathering grade of W2/3 it is fresher than the average. The CKs are still a rare affair! 32 years of Antarctic hunts yielded not more than 5.2 kgs (104 numbers, but endless pairings - the Elephant Moraine 90001 pairing group comprises alone 40 numbered crumbs). With Karoonda and Kobe we have so far only 2 observed falls, and all non-Antarctic CKs together - 76 numbers and finds, many pairings among them - weigh together 101 kgs, whereof 72kgs were contributed by Karoonda and HaH 280/281. All in all, regarding the combined tkws, one can say, that the stuff is rare like Mars. Here again the data NWA 5475 Morocco 2008 CK4/5 S1, W2-3 tkw 178g The specimens waiting to be added to your collection are complete cross sections through the stone, grinded on both sides with partially preserved old fusion crust, and the two endcuts. They are priced at an inexpensive 16$ per gram and 15$/g for the endcuts. http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/specials/special-nwa5475.html Enjoy! Stefan Ralew & Martin Altmann Chladni's Heirs Munich - Berlin Fine Meteorites for Science & Collectors http://www.chladnis-heirs.com From delraygoddess at yahoo.com Sun Feb 1 13:45:32 2009 From: delraygoddess at yahoo.com (Leigh Anne DelRay) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 10:45:32 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Photos of Tucson Gem Show Message-ID: <131071.60278.qm@web37103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I read your letter Al, and I thought I would respond with some photos for you. Until you get here, maybe these will hold you over.... Here are some shots of Anne and Geoff's Room at the Inn Suites: http://www.callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/room1.jpg http://www.callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/room2.jpg http://www.callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/room3.jpg http://www.callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/room4.jpg http://www.callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/room5.jpg Here are some of our friends... http://www.callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/jose.jpg http://www.callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/slava.jpg http://www.callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/doug.jpg here are some reasons to not come to the show..... http://www.callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/reasons1.jpg http://www.callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/farmer.jpg http://www.callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/reasons2.jpg (only joking guys) And here is a picture of Mohammed who ALMOST put diesel fuel in his gasoline only mercedes-benz. hee hee http://www.callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/mohammed.jpg I hope you enjoy those Al, and everyone else who can't make it, or isn't here yet. I will take a few more for you in the next couple days... -Leigh Anne DelRay From psc2410xi at yahoo.com Sun Feb 1 14:06:56 2009 From: psc2410xi at yahoo.com (Don Rawlings) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 11:06:56 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - February 1, 2009 Message-ID: <811287.85163.qm@web59316.mail.re1.yahoo.com> How about a video of Chicago Steve in action when he gets there, Michael? Auction and Party too ! Don Rawlings --- On Sun, 2/1/09, Michael Johnson wrote: From: Michael Johnson Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - February 1, 2009 To: "Meteorite List" Date: Sunday, February 1, 2009, 6:19 AM http://www.rocksfromspace.org/February_1_2009.html ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From aeromadness at yahoo.com Sun Feb 1 14:15:05 2009 From: aeromadness at yahoo.com (Harry) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 11:15:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Encyclopedia of meteorites website has a new owner Message-ID: <876667.48658.qm@web57808.mail.re3.yahoo.com> I hope they do a great job! From, Harry On Feb 1, 2009, at 12:19 AM, Pel? Pierre-Marie wrote: Hello to the List, I'm proud to announce the winner of the Encyclopedia-of-meteorites website. The winner is... The IMCA (International Meteorite Collectors Association) I'm sure the IMCA will do a great job on the encyclopedia. Sorry for the other bidders. Pierre-Marie Pele ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mail at mhmeteorites.com Sun Feb 1 14:16:44 2009 From: mail at mhmeteorites.com (mail at mhmeteorites.com) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 19:16:44 +0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] Photos of Tucson Gem Show Message-ID: <289041172-1233515849-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1170126849-@bxe342.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> I miss it already! Thanks for posting and I hope those who are attending enjoy the show and the dealers make it worthwhile. Best Matt ------Original Message------ From: Leigh Anne DelRay Sender: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com ReplyTo: delraygoddess at yahoo.com Sent: Feb 1, 2009 11:45 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Photos of Tucson Gem Show I read your letter Al, and I thought I would respond with some photos for you. Until you get here, maybe these will hold you over.... Here are some shots of Anne and Geoff's Room at the Inn Suites: http://www.callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/room1.jpg http://www.callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/room2.jpg http://www.callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/room3.jpg http://www.callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/room4.jpg http://www.callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/room5.jpg Here are some of our friends... http://www.callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/jose.jpg http://www.callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/slava.jpg http://www.callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/doug.jpg here are some reasons to not come to the show..... http://www.callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/reasons1.jpg http://www.callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/farmer.jpg http://www.callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/reasons2.jpg (only joking guys) And here is a picture of Mohammed who ALMOST put diesel fuel in his gasoline only mercedes-benz. hee hee http://www.callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/mohammed.jpg I hope you enjoy those Al, and everyone else who can't make it, or isn't here yet. I will take a few more for you in the next couple days... -Leigh Anne DelRay ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Matt Morgan Mile High Meteorites http://www.mhmeteorites.com P.O. Box 151293 Lakewood, CO 80215 USA From rlenssen at planet.nl Sun Feb 1 14:48:18 2009 From: rlenssen at planet.nl (Rob Lenssen) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 20:48:18 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] green spot in chondrite Message-ID: Hi List, I found a green crystal (?) peeping out of a newly received 1200g chondrite: http://home.planet.nl/~rlenssen/green_spot_in_chondrite.jpg Can anybody explain to me what I am seeing here? Width of view is approximately 20 mm. Also it the picture, a band of achondrite like fusion crust (100mm long, 5-10mm wide). I'm sure it is a chondrite though. Best regards, Rob Lenssen From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Sun Feb 1 15:02:28 2009 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 01 Feb 2009 20:02:28 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] Green spot in chondrite Message-ID: Hello Rob and List, http://home.planet.nl/~rlenssen/green_spot_in_chondrite.jpg "Can anybody explain to me what I am seeing here?" This may be a magnesium-rich orthopyroxene crystal => hypersthene (Mg,Fe)SiO3 What do others think? Best, Bernd From michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com Sun Feb 1 15:40:23 2009 From: michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com (Michael Gilmer) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 12:40:23 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Sanding and Polishing Paper Grits - need some In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <865837.65210.qm@web58407.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi friends and listees! A while back on the list, someone was offering a packet of sandpaper sheets. These sheets were in progressively finer grits - for polishing meteorites. The packets had several sheets, a few of each grit, and were priced pretty cheap. I should have bought some, but I didn't. Does anyone remember who was selling them? I tried to search the mailing list archives, and my own saved list emails, but I couldn't find it. It may have been Mexico Doug - but I am not sure. If someone can point me in the right direction, please contact me offlist. I want to practice my polishing skills on some low-value UNWA stones, and I want to experiment with the different grits. (no thanks, I don't want the eggs with my grits, but I will take a fresh cup of coffee.) Regards and clear skies, MikeG ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... --- On Sun, 2/1/09, meteorite-list-request at meteoritecentral.com wrote: > From: meteorite-list-request at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: Meteorite-list Digest, Vol 65, Issue 2 > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Sunday, February 1, 2009, 11:00 AM > Send Meteorite-list mailing list submissions to > meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > or, via email, send a message with subject or body > 'help' to > meteorite-list-request at meteoritecentral.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > meteorite-list-owner at meteoritecentral.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more > specific > than "Re: Contents of Meteorite-list digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Latest news on Moroc Fall posted 1FEB09 (drtanuki) > 2. FW: Additional report on the Tamdakht meteorite fall > - > correction (Meteorite-Recon.com) > 3. Re: [AD] Oriented chondrites (Michael Gilmer) > 4. AD: Dhofar 910 Lunar - Lowest Price! (RJP) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 07:36:11 -0800 (PST) > From: drtanuki > Subject: [meteorite-list] Latest news on Moroc Fall posted > 1FEB09 > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Message-ID: > <914373.42387.qm at web53205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Dear List, > > The Latest news on Moroc Fall posted 1FEB09. Thank you to > Dr. Svend Buhl. > > Please scroll down there are other posts that I have not > posted to the Metlist. Thank you. Dirk Ross..Tokyo > > http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.com/ > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2009 16:37:01 +0100 > From: "Meteorite-Recon.com" > > Subject: [meteorite-list] FW: Additional report on the > Tamdakht > meteorite fall - correction > To: > Message-ID: > <28906286.1634171233502621098.JavaMail.servlet at kundenserver> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > sorry, wrong link, it should have read like this: > > http://www.meteorite-recon.com/en/meteorite%20tamdaght%201.htm > > Svend > > > > ---------------- > > Good Morning everybody, > > After reading through the various posts on the subject, > private correspondence, > media reports, field photos, coordinates and information > streaming in from > Morocco, I personally have arrived at the conclusion that > Tamdakht is a > meteorite fall, which is much better documented than > similar events of the > past. I appreciate the work the Morrocan enthusiasts, > hunters and dealers have > accomplished. Particularly as they were able to locate the > fall site before the > heavy rains in mid January. > > Philippe Thomas was already so kind to share information on > his website and I > think he did a great job in giving an accurate picture. I > too had the fortune > to receive 1st hand reports from the field from our > Moroccan friends and I have > compiled these in the report published here: > > http://www.meteorite-recon.com/en/meteorite%20tamdaght%202.htm > > The report also contains the English translation of the > article in "Al Masah" > from December 28. Note that the article speaks of a similar > fireball sighting > in Tunesia from December 18. The Tunesian fireball also > produced seismic shock > waves. This may become interesting should fresh finds from > Tunesia become > public in the near future. > > I may add a few personal thoughts on issues discussed here > on the list, > regarding the Tamdakht fall and its recovery: > > "the impact was heard" > > Several witnesses, including those interviewd by the > newspaper "Al Masah" > stated that a "seismic shock wave was heard and the > ground was shaking at the > "collision of the celestial body with a > mountain." At that time the location of > the potential touchdown was still unknown. It is most > probable that eye > witnesses, unfamiliar with meteoritic phenomena, presumed > that such sounds > could only be caused by an explosion due to an impact. > Anybody who has ever > done an interview with an eyewitness of a meteorite fall > will recognize this > assumption as it is quite common. > > "the crater vs. impact pit issue" > > There has been some confusion regarding field images from > the Tamdakht area. It > is very common to hear "pit" or "hole" > translated as "crater". We had that with > the Hosur fall and the Bassikounou fall, where eye > witnesses and official > sources reported "craters" that were in fact an > impact pits, or impact holes. > This is particularly an issue when reports in Arab or > French are translated > into English, but there are probably a number of other > languages that do not > provide capability to distinguish between both terms > precisely. > > "chondrules vs no chondrules" > > Anyone who had the chance to study material of the Tamdakht > fall will agree > that the material differs enough from the known Mahgreb > falls to distinguish it > from other material circulating. Most fractured surfaces > show chondrules, > although they are usually small (1-2mm) and are quite > fading with the > surrounding matrix. Some fractured surfaces show > slickensides on which there > are no chondrules to see, which explains the comment of a > honored list member, > who did not find chondrules on the fractured surfaces of > his specimen. Any > larger polished cut surface will show well defined > chondrules in good contrast. > > > We will continue the report on our website with additional > informatio and I am > looking forward to hear impressions on the new material > from Tucson. > > Thanks for your interest > > Svend > > > > www.meteorite-recon.com > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 08:12:25 -0800 (PST) > From: Michael Gilmer > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] [AD] Oriented chondrites > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Message-ID: > <7336.64596.qm at web58402.mail.re3.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Hi Tomasz! > > What a SPECTACULAR oriented stone! That first stone is > absolutely > beautiful. I cannot afford to buy, but it sure is fun to > window > shop. ;) > > Best regards and clear skies, > > MikeG > > ......................................................... > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and > http://www.glassthrower.com > .......................................................... > > > > Message: 14 > Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2009 11:52:23 +0100 > From: "Tomasz Jakubowski" > Subject: [meteorite-list] [AD] Oriented chondrites > To: meteorite-list > > Message-ID: <49857ee7b11f56.22021155 at wp.pl> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 > > Dear List Members, > > I have beautiful oriented, fresh chondrites from Sahara > desert. > Both of specimen are full oriented, with radial flow lines, > rollover > lips and fresh fusion cust. > > First of them have 485 grams. Amazing orientation!! I > purchased this > specimen 2 years ago in Rissani. > http://picasaweb.google.pl/illaenus/NWAOriented485Grams# > > Second piece have 435 grams : > http://picasaweb.google.pl/illaenus/NWAOriented435G# > > > Offers and questions please send direct to - > illaenus at gmail.com > > > Kind Regards > Tomasz Jakubowski > IMCA #2321 > > > -- > Free Tibet > > ---------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 10:59:46 -0600 (GMT-06:00) > From: RJP > Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Dhofar 910 Lunar - Lowest > Price! > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Message-ID: > <8719009.1233507586679.JavaMail.root at elwamui-norfolk.atl.sa.earthlink.net> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > I remember a week or so ago, someone mentioned that Dhofar > 910 could not be found for less than ~$775/g. > > Well, here you go... "a cure for the Tucson > blues", a "super Bowl Special".. as some > dealers proclaim. > > Dhofar 910 - 0.74g thin slice, dimensions of 23 X 9 X 2mm. > Large clast of anorthosite, gas bubbles, ect. > > $675 per gram plus fifty cent!.. Priority Mail postage. > This is my rock bottom price. See photos here: > > http://outdoors.webshots.com/album/569165160RMTnOx > > Please email with additional questions and/or to obtain > larger photos. Thanks! > > Ryan Pawelski > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > End of Meteorite-list Digest, Vol 65, Issue 2 > ********************************************* From John at Cabassi.net Sun Feb 1 16:16:27 2009 From: John at Cabassi.net (John.L.Cabassi) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 13:16:27 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] Sanding and Polishing Paper Grits - need some References: <865837.65210.qm@web58407.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <004901c984b2$5b2ef920$4564fea9@TITAN> G'Day Mike This might help. http://www.mail-archive.com/meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com/msg69157.html Cheers John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Gilmer" To: Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 12:40 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Sanding and Polishing Paper Grits - need some > Hi friends and listees! > > A while back on the list, someone was offering a packet of sandpaper > sheets. These sheets were in progressively finer grits - for polishing > meteorites. The packets had several sheets, a few of each grit, > and were priced pretty cheap. I should have bought some, but I > didn't. Does anyone remember who was selling them? I tried to search > the mailing list archives, and my own saved list emails, but I couldn't > find it. It may have been Mexico Doug - but I am not sure. > > If someone can point me in the right direction, please contact me > offlist. > > I want to practice my polishing skills on some low-value UNWA stones, > and I want to experiment with the different grits. > > (no thanks, I don't want the eggs with my grits, but I will take a > fresh cup of coffee.) > > Regards and clear skies, > > MikeG > > > ......................................................... > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com > .......................................................... > > > > --- On Sun, 2/1/09, meteorite-list-request at meteoritecentral.com > wrote: > >> From: meteorite-list-request at meteoritecentral.com >> >> Subject: Meteorite-list Digest, Vol 65, Issue 2 >> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> Date: Sunday, February 1, 2009, 11:00 AM >> Send Meteorite-list mailing list submissions to >> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body >> 'help' to >> meteorite-list-request at meteoritecentral.com >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> meteorite-list-owner at meteoritecentral.com >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more >> specific >> than "Re: Contents of Meteorite-list digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Latest news on Moroc Fall posted 1FEB09 (drtanuki) >> 2. FW: Additional report on the Tamdakht meteorite fall >> - >> correction (Meteorite-Recon.com) >> 3. Re: [AD] Oriented chondrites (Michael Gilmer) >> 4. AD: Dhofar 910 Lunar - Lowest Price! (RJP) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 07:36:11 -0800 (PST) >> From: drtanuki >> Subject: [meteorite-list] Latest news on Moroc Fall posted >> 1FEB09 >> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> Message-ID: >> <914373.42387.qm at web53205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> >> Dear List, >> >> The Latest news on Moroc Fall posted 1FEB09. Thank you to >> Dr. Svend Buhl. >> >> Please scroll down there are other posts that I have not >> posted to the Metlist. Thank you. Dirk Ross..Tokyo >> >> http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.com/ >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2009 16:37:01 +0100 >> From: "Meteorite-Recon.com" >> >> Subject: [meteorite-list] FW: Additional report on the >> Tamdakht >> meteorite fall - correction >> To: >> Message-ID: >> <28906286.1634171233502621098.JavaMail.servlet at kundenserver> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 >> >> sorry, wrong link, it should have read like this: >> >> http://www.meteorite-recon.com/en/meteorite%20tamdaght%201.htm >> >> Svend >> >> >> >> ---------------- >> >> Good Morning everybody, >> >> After reading through the various posts on the subject, >> private correspondence, >> media reports, field photos, coordinates and information >> streaming in from >> Morocco, I personally have arrived at the conclusion that >> Tamdakht is a >> meteorite fall, which is much better documented than >> similar events of the >> past. I appreciate the work the Morrocan enthusiasts, >> hunters and dealers have >> accomplished. Particularly as they were able to locate the >> fall site before the >> heavy rains in mid January. >> >> Philippe Thomas was already so kind to share information on >> his website and I >> think he did a great job in giving an accurate picture. I >> too had the fortune >> to receive 1st hand reports from the field from our >> Moroccan friends and I have >> compiled these in the report published here: >> >> http://www.meteorite-recon.com/en/meteorite%20tamdaght%202.htm >> >> The report also contains the English translation of the >> article in "Al Masah" >> from December 28. Note that the article speaks of a similar >> fireball sighting >> in Tunesia from December 18. The Tunesian fireball also >> produced seismic shock >> waves. This may become interesting should fresh finds from >> Tunesia become >> public in the near future. >> >> I may add a few personal thoughts on issues discussed here >> on the list, >> regarding the Tamdakht fall and its recovery: >> >> "the impact was heard" >> >> Several witnesses, including those interviewd by the >> newspaper "Al Masah" >> stated that a "seismic shock wave was heard and the >> ground was shaking at the >> "collision of the celestial body with a >> mountain." At that time the location of >> the potential touchdown was still unknown. It is most >> probable that eye >> witnesses, unfamiliar with meteoritic phenomena, presumed >> that such sounds >> could only be caused by an explosion due to an impact. >> Anybody who has ever >> done an interview with an eyewitness of a meteorite fall >> will recognize this >> assumption as it is quite common. >> >> "the crater vs. impact pit issue" >> >> There has been some confusion regarding field images from >> the Tamdakht area. It >> is very common to hear "pit" or "hole" >> translated as "crater". We had that with >> the Hosur fall and the Bassikounou fall, where eye >> witnesses and official >> sources reported "craters" that were in fact an >> impact pits, or impact holes. >> This is particularly an issue when reports in Arab or >> French are translated >> into English, but there are probably a number of other >> languages that do not >> provide capability to distinguish between both terms >> precisely. >> >> "chondrules vs no chondrules" >> >> Anyone who had the chance to study material of the Tamdakht >> fall will agree >> that the material differs enough from the known Mahgreb >> falls to distinguish it >> from other material circulating. Most fractured surfaces >> show chondrules, >> although they are usually small (1-2mm) and are quite >> fading with the >> surrounding matrix. Some fractured surfaces show >> slickensides on which there >> are no chondrules to see, which explains the comment of a >> honored list member, >> who did not find chondrules on the fractured surfaces of >> his specimen. Any >> larger polished cut surface will show well defined >> chondrules in good contrast. >> >> >> We will continue the report on our website with additional >> informatio and I am >> looking forward to hear impressions on the new material >> from Tucson. >> >> Thanks for your interest >> >> Svend >> >> >> >> www.meteorite-recon.com >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 3 >> Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 08:12:25 -0800 (PST) >> From: Michael Gilmer >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] [AD] Oriented chondrites >> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> Message-ID: >> <7336.64596.qm at web58402.mail.re3.yahoo.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> >> Hi Tomasz! >> >> What a SPECTACULAR oriented stone! That first stone is >> absolutely >> beautiful. I cannot afford to buy, but it sure is fun to >> window >> shop. ;) >> >> Best regards and clear skies, >> >> MikeG >> >> ......................................................... >> Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) >> Member of the Meteoritical Society. >> Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. >> Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and >> http://www.glassthrower.com >> .......................................................... >> >> >> >> Message: 14 >> Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2009 11:52:23 +0100 >> From: "Tomasz Jakubowski" >> Subject: [meteorite-list] [AD] Oriented chondrites >> To: meteorite-list >> >> Message-ID: <49857ee7b11f56.22021155 at wp.pl> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 >> >> Dear List Members, >> >> I have beautiful oriented, fresh chondrites from Sahara >> desert. >> Both of specimen are full oriented, with radial flow lines, >> rollover >> lips and fresh fusion cust. >> >> First of them have 485 grams. Amazing orientation!! I >> purchased this >> specimen 2 years ago in Rissani. >> http://picasaweb.google.pl/illaenus/NWAOriented485Grams# >> >> Second piece have 435 grams : >> http://picasaweb.google.pl/illaenus/NWAOriented435G# >> >> >> Offers and questions please send direct to - >> illaenus at gmail.com >> >> >> Kind Regards >> Tomasz Jakubowski >> IMCA #2321 >> >> >> -- >> Free Tibet >> >> ---------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 4 >> Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 10:59:46 -0600 (GMT-06:00) >> From: RJP >> Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Dhofar 910 Lunar - Lowest >> Price! >> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> Message-ID: >> <8719009.1233507586679.JavaMail.root at elwamui-norfolk.atl.sa.earthlink.net> >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 >> >> I remember a week or so ago, someone mentioned that Dhofar >> 910 could not be found for less than ~$775/g. >> >> Well, here you go... "a cure for the Tucson >> blues", a "super Bowl Special".. as some >> dealers proclaim. >> >> Dhofar 910 - 0.74g thin slice, dimensions of 23 X 9 X 2mm. >> Large clast of anorthosite, gas bubbles, ect. >> >> $675 per gram plus fifty cent!.. Priority Mail postage. >> This is my rock bottom price. See photos here: >> >> http://outdoors.webshots.com/album/569165160RMTnOx >> >> Please email with additional questions and/or to obtain >> larger photos. Thanks! >> >> Ryan Pawelski >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> >> End of Meteorite-list Digest, Vol 65, Issue 2 >> ********************************************* > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From rsvp321 at hotmail.com Sun Feb 1 16:41:21 2009 From: rsvp321 at hotmail.com (Pete Pete) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 16:41:21 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Sanding and Polishing Paper Grits - need some In-Reply-To: <865837.65210.qm@web58407.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <865837.65210.qm@web58407.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Eggs and grits. I like grits, too. How do you cook your grits? Do you like them regular, creamy or al dente? ---------------------------------------- > Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 12:40:23 -0800 > From: michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: [meteorite-list] Sanding and Polishing Paper Grits - need some > > Hi friends and listees! > > A while back on the list, someone was offering a packet of sandpaper > sheets. These sheets were in progressively finer grits - for polishing > meteorites. The packets had several sheets, a few of each grit, > and were priced pretty cheap. I should have bought some, but I > didn't. Does anyone remember who was selling them? I tried to search > the mailing list archives, and my own saved list emails, but I couldn't > find it. It may have been Mexico Doug - but I am not sure. > > If someone can point me in the right direction, please contact me > offlist. > > I want to practice my polishing skills on some low-value UNWA stones, > and I want to experiment with the different grits. > > (no thanks, I don't want the eggs with my grits, but I will take a > fresh cup of coffee.) > > Regards and clear skies, > > MikeG > > > ......................................................... > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com > .......................................................... > > > > --- On Sun, 2/1/09, meteorite-list-request at meteoritecentral.com wrote: > >> From: meteorite-list-request at meteoritecentral.com >> Subject: Meteorite-list Digest, Vol 65, Issue 2 >> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> Date: Sunday, February 1, 2009, 11:00 AM >> Send Meteorite-list mailing list submissions to >> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body >> 'help' to >> meteorite-list-request at meteoritecentral.com >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> meteorite-list-owner at meteoritecentral.com >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more >> specific >> than "Re: Contents of Meteorite-list digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Latest news on Moroc Fall posted 1FEB09 (drtanuki) >> 2. FW: Additional report on the Tamdakht meteorite fall >> - >> correction (Meteorite-Recon.com) >> 3. Re: [AD] Oriented chondrites (Michael Gilmer) >> 4. AD: Dhofar 910 Lunar - Lowest Price! (RJP) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 07:36:11 -0800 (PST) >> From: drtanuki >> Subject: [meteorite-list] Latest news on Moroc Fall posted >> 1FEB09 >> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> Message-ID: >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> >> Dear List, >> >> The Latest news on Moroc Fall posted 1FEB09. Thank you to >> Dr. Svend Buhl. >> >> Please scroll down there are other posts that I have not >> posted to the Metlist. Thank you. Dirk Ross..Tokyo >> >> http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.com/ >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2009 16:37:01 +0100 >> From: "Meteorite-Recon.com" >> >> Subject: [meteorite-list] FW: Additional report on the >> Tamdakht >> meteorite fall - correction >> To: >> Message-ID: >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 >> >> sorry, wrong link, it should have read like this: >> >> http://www.meteorite-recon.com/en/meteorite%20tamdaght%201.htm >> >> Svend >> >> >> >> ---------------- >> >> Good Morning everybody, >> >> After reading through the various posts on the subject, >> private correspondence, >> media reports, field photos, coordinates and information >> streaming in from >> Morocco, I personally have arrived at the conclusion that >> Tamdakht is a >> meteorite fall, which is much better documented than >> similar events of the >> past. I appreciate the work the Morrocan enthusiasts, >> hunters and dealers have >> accomplished. Particularly as they were able to locate the >> fall site before the >> heavy rains in mid January. >> >> Philippe Thomas was already so kind to share information on >> his website and I >> think he did a great job in giving an accurate picture. I >> too had the fortune >> to receive 1st hand reports from the field from our >> Moroccan friends and I have >> compiled these in the report published here: >> >> http://www.meteorite-recon.com/en/meteorite%20tamdaght%202.htm >> >> The report also contains the English translation of the >> article in "Al Masah" >> from December 28. Note that the article speaks of a similar >> fireball sighting >> in Tunesia from December 18. The Tunesian fireball also >> produced seismic shock >> waves. This may become interesting should fresh finds from >> Tunesia become >> public in the near future. >> >> I may add a few personal thoughts on issues discussed here >> on the list, >> regarding the Tamdakht fall and its recovery: >> >> "the impact was heard" >> >> Several witnesses, including those interviewd by the >> newspaper "Al Masah" >> stated that a "seismic shock wave was heard and the >> ground was shaking at the >> "collision of the celestial body with a >> mountain." At that time the location of >> the potential touchdown was still unknown. It is most >> probable that eye >> witnesses, unfamiliar with meteoritic phenomena, presumed >> that such sounds >> could only be caused by an explosion due to an impact. >> Anybody who has ever >> done an interview with an eyewitness of a meteorite fall >> will recognize this >> assumption as it is quite common. >> >> "the crater vs. impact pit issue" >> >> There has been some confusion regarding field images from >> the Tamdakht area. It >> is very common to hear "pit" or "hole" >> translated as "crater". We had that with >> the Hosur fall and the Bassikounou fall, where eye >> witnesses and official >> sources reported "craters" that were in fact an >> impact pits, or impact holes. >> This is particularly an issue when reports in Arab or >> French are translated >> into English, but there are probably a number of other >> languages that do not >> provide capability to distinguish between both terms >> precisely. >> >> "chondrules vs no chondrules" >> >> Anyone who had the chance to study material of the Tamdakht >> fall will agree >> that the material differs enough from the known Mahgreb >> falls to distinguish it >> from other material circulating. Most fractured surfaces >> show chondrules, >> although they are usually small (1-2mm) and are quite >> fading with the >> surrounding matrix. Some fractured surfaces show >> slickensides on which there >> are no chondrules to see, which explains the comment of a >> honored list member, >> who did not find chondrules on the fractured surfaces of >> his specimen. Any >> larger polished cut surface will show well defined >> chondrules in good contrast. >> >> >> We will continue the report on our website with additional >> informatio and I am >> looking forward to hear impressions on the new material >> from Tucson. >> >> Thanks for your interest >> >> Svend >> >> >> >> www.meteorite-recon.com >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 3 >> Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 08:12:25 -0800 (PST) >> From: Michael Gilmer >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] [AD] Oriented chondrites >> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> Message-ID: >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> >> Hi Tomasz! >> >> What a SPECTACULAR oriented stone! That first stone is >> absolutely >> beautiful. I cannot afford to buy, but it sure is fun to >> window >> shop. ;) >> >> Best regards and clear skies, >> >> MikeG >> >> ......................................................... >> Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) >> Member of the Meteoritical Society. >> Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. >> Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and >> http://www.glassthrower.com >> .......................................................... >> >> >> >> Message: 14 >> Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2009 11:52:23 +0100 >> From: "Tomasz Jakubowski" >> Subject: [meteorite-list] [AD] Oriented chondrites >> To: meteorite-list >> >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 >> >> Dear List Members, >> >> I have beautiful oriented, fresh chondrites from Sahara >> desert. >> Both of specimen are full oriented, with radial flow lines, >> rollover >> lips and fresh fusion cust. >> >> First of them have 485 grams. Amazing orientation!! I >> purchased this >> specimen 2 years ago in Rissani. >> http://picasaweb.google.pl/illaenus/NWAOriented485Grams# >> >> Second piece have 435 grams : >> http://picasaweb.google.pl/illaenus/NWAOriented435G# >> >> >> Offers and questions please send direct to - >> illaenus at gmail.com >> >> >> Kind Regards >> Tomasz Jakubowski >> IMCA #2321 >> >> >> -- >> Free Tibet >> >> ---------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 4 >> Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 10:59:46 -0600 (GMT-06:00) >> From: RJP >> Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Dhofar 910 Lunar - Lowest >> Price! >> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> Message-ID: >> >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 >> >> I remember a week or so ago, someone mentioned that Dhofar >> 910 could not be found for less than ~$775/g. >> >> Well, here you go... "a cure for the Tucson >> blues", a "super Bowl Special".. as some >> dealers proclaim. >> >> Dhofar 910 - 0.74g thin slice, dimensions of 23 X 9 X 2mm. >> Large clast of anorthosite, gas bubbles, ect. >> >> $675 per gram plus fifty cent!.. Priority Mail postage. >> This is my rock bottom price. See photos here: >> >> http://outdoors.webshots.com/album/569165160RMTnOx >> >> Please email with additional questions and/or to obtain >> larger photos. Thanks! >> >> Ryan Pawelski >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> >> End of Meteorite-list Digest, Vol 65, Issue 2 >> ********************************************* > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _________________________________________________________________ How fun is this? IMing with Windows Live Messenger just got better. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/messenger.aspx From michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com Sun Feb 1 17:13:13 2009 From: michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com (Michael Gilmer) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 14:13:13 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Michael Blood Auction, Live Feed? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <807685.30667.qm@web58405.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi Listees and Michael! How about a live streaming webcast of the auction? A webcam, a laptop, a broadband connection, and about 15 minutes of configuring and you are live worldwide. :) Something to think about, maybe for next year. I'll help set it up next year! Regards and clear skies, MikeG ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 11:06:56 -0800 (PST) From: Don Rawlings Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - February 1, 2009 To: Meteorite List Message-ID: <811287.85163.qm at web59316.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii How about a video of Chicago Steve in action when he gets there, Michael? Auction and Party too ! Don Rawlings From raremeteorites at yahoo.com Sun Feb 1 17:26:40 2009 From: raremeteorites at yahoo.com (Adam Hupe) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 14:26:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Photos of Tucson Gem Show In-Reply-To: <131071.60278.qm@web37103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <869131.20265.qm@web30703.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Great Shots, Leigh Anne, It reminds me of what the Tucson show is really about, a gathering of people from all over the world with common interests. We will see you all tomorrow afternoon or the IMCA dinner Thursday. Best Regards, Adam From rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com Sun Feb 1 19:10:43 2009 From: rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com (Rob McCafferty) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 16:10:43 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Green spot in chondrite In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <47577.18789.qm@web55205.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Wow. Very interesting. I have no idea but memories of the microscope scene in "the Satan Bug" spring to mind. --- On Sun, 2/1/09, bernd.pauli at paulinet.de wrote: > From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de > Subject: [meteorite-list] Green spot in chondrite > To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Sunday, February 1, 2009, 8:02 PM > Hello Rob and List, > > http://home.planet.nl/~rlenssen/green_spot_in_chondrite.jpg > > "Can anybody explain to me what I am seeing > here?" > > This may be a magnesium-rich orthopyroxene crystal => > hypersthene (Mg,Fe)SiO3 > > What do others think? > > Best, > > Bernd > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com Sun Feb 1 20:05:09 2009 From: michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com (Michael Gilmer) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 17:05:09 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Sanding and Polishing Paper Grits - need some In-Reply-To: <306158.3927.qm@web33508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <54418.79188.qm@web58402.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Oh great sages of the list - thank you! :) Doug is in Tucson and I know his plate must be full, so I'll drop him a line after the show and see if he has any left. Also, the grits are listed in his ad, that might point me in the right direction. Thanks! MikeG ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... --- On Sun, 2/1/09, benjamin de la vega wrote: > From: benjamin de la vega > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Sanding and Polishing Paper Grits - need some > To: michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, "John.L.Cabassi" > Date: Sunday, February 1, 2009, 4:46 PM > That's right, it was?Doug, what the hell was I > thinking? > > Sorry Mike & Doug! > Ben de la Vega > > --- On Sun, 2/1/09, John.L.Cabassi > wrote: > > From: John.L.Cabassi > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Sanding and Polishing Paper > Grits - need some > To: michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com, > meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Sunday, February 1, 2009, 2:16 PM > > G'Day Mike > This might help. > http://www.mail-archive.com/meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com/msg69157.html > > Cheers > John > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Michael Gilmer" > > To: > Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 12:40 PM > Subject: [meteorite-list] Sanding and Polishing Paper Grits > - need some > > > > Hi friends and listees! > > > > A while back on the list, someone was offering a > packet of sandpaper > > sheets. These sheets were in progressively finer > grits - for polishing > > meteorites. The packets had several sheets, a few of > each grit, > > and were priced pretty cheap. I should have bought > some, but I > > didn't. Does anyone remember who was selling > them? I tried to search > > the mailing list archives, and my own saved list > emails, but I > couldn't > > find it. It may have been Mexico Doug - but I am not > sure. > > > > If someone can point me in the right direction, please > contact me > > offlist. > > > > I want to practice my polishing skills on some > low-value UNWA stones, > > and I want to experiment with the different grits. > > > > (no thanks, I don't want the eggs with my grits, > but I will take a > > fresh cup of coffee.) > > > > Regards and clear skies, > > > > MikeG > > > > > > > ......................................................... > > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and > http://www.glassthrower.com > > > .......................................................... > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 2/1/09, > meteorite-list-request at meteoritecentral.com > > > wrote: > > > >> From: meteorite-list-request at meteoritecentral.com > >> > > >> Subject: Meteorite-list Digest, Vol 65, Issue 2 > >> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >> Date: Sunday, February 1, 2009, 11:00 AM > >> Send Meteorite-list mailing list submissions to > >> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >> > >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide > Web, visit > >> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body > >> 'help' to > >> meteorite-list-request at meteoritecentral.com > >> > >> You can reach the person managing the list at > >> meteorite-list-owner at meteoritecentral.com > >> > >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it > is more > >> specific > >> than "Re: Contents of Meteorite-list > digest..." > >> > >> > >> Today's Topics: > >> > >> 1. Latest news on Moroc Fall posted 1FEB09 > (drtanuki) > >> 2. FW: Additional report on the Tamdakht > meteorite fall > >> - > >> correction (Meteorite-Recon.com) > >> 3. Re: [AD] Oriented chondrites (Michael > Gilmer) > >> 4. AD: Dhofar 910 Lunar - Lowest Price! (RJP) > >> > >> > >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > >> Message: 1 > >> Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 07:36:11 -0800 (PST) > >> From: drtanuki > >> Subject: [meteorite-list] Latest news on Moroc > Fall posted > >> 1FEB09 > >> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >> Message-ID: > >> > <914373.42387.qm at web53205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > >> > >> Dear List, > >> > >> The Latest news on Moroc Fall posted 1FEB09. > Thank you to > >> Dr. Svend Buhl. > >> > >> Please scroll down there are other posts that I > have not > >> posted to the Metlist. Thank you. Dirk > Ross..Tokyo > >> > >> http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.com/ > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> > >> Message: 2 > >> Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2009 16:37:01 +0100 > >> From: "Meteorite-Recon.com" > >> > >> Subject: [meteorite-list] FW: Additional report on > the > >> Tamdakht > >> meteorite fall - correction > >> To: > >> Message-ID: > >> > <28906286.1634171233502621098.JavaMail.servlet at kundenserver> > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > >> > >> sorry, wrong link, it should have read like this: > >> > >> > http://www.meteorite-recon.com/en/meteorite%20tamdaght%201.htm > >> > >> Svend > >> > >> > >> > >> ---------------- > >> > >> Good Morning everybody, > >> > >> After reading through the various posts on the > subject, > >> private correspondence, > >> media reports, field photos, coordinates and > information > >> streaming in from > >> Morocco, I personally have arrived at the > conclusion that > >> Tamdakht is a > >> meteorite fall, which is much better documented > than > >> similar events of the > >> past. I appreciate the work the Morrocan > enthusiasts, > >> hunters and dealers have > >> accomplished. Particularly as they were able to > locate the > >> fall site before the > >> heavy rains in mid January. > >> > >> Philippe Thomas was already so kind to share > information on > >> his website and I > >> think he did a great job in giving an accurate > picture. I > >> too had the fortune > >> to receive 1st hand reports from the field from > our > >> Moroccan friends and I have > >> compiled these in the report published here: > >> > >> > http://www.meteorite-recon.com/en/meteorite%20tamdaght%202.htm > >> > >> The report also contains the English translation > of the > >> article in "Al Masah" > >> from December 28. Note that the article speaks of > a similar > >> fireball sighting > >> in Tunesia from December 18. The Tunesian fireball > also > >> produced seismic shock > >> waves. This may become interesting should fresh > finds from > >> Tunesia become > >> public in the near future. > >> > >> I may add a few personal thoughts on issues > discussed here > >> on the list, > >> regarding the Tamdakht fall and its recovery: > >> > >> "the impact was heard" > >> > >> Several witnesses, including those interviewd by > the > >> newspaper "Al Masah" > >> stated that a "seismic shock wave was heard > and the > >> ground was shaking at the > >> "collision of the celestial body with a > >> mountain." At that time the location of > >> the potential touchdown was still unknown. It is > most > >> probable that eye > >> witnesses, unfamiliar with meteoritic phenomena, > presumed > >> that such sounds > >> could only be caused by an explosion due to an > impact. > >> Anybody who has ever > >> done an interview with an eyewitness of a > meteorite fall > >> will recognize this > >> assumption as it is quite common. > >> > >> "the crater vs. impact pit issue" > >> > >> There has been some confusion regarding field > images from > >> the Tamdakht area. It > >> is very common to hear "pit" or > "hole" > >> translated as "crater". We had that with > >> the Hosur fall and the Bassikounou fall, where eye > >> witnesses and official > >> sources reported "craters" that were in > fact an > >> impact pits, or impact holes. > >> This is particularly an issue when reports in Arab > or > >> French are translated > >> into English, but there are probably a number of > other > >> languages that do not > >> provide capability to distinguish between both > terms > >> precisely. > >> > >> "chondrules vs no chondrules" > >> > >> Anyone who had the chance to study material of the > Tamdakht > >> fall will agree > >> that the material differs enough from the known > Mahgreb > >> falls to distinguish it > >> from other material circulating. Most fractured > surfaces > >> show chondrules, > >> although they are usually small (1-2mm) and are > quite > >> fading with the > >> surrounding matrix. Some fractured surfaces show > >> slickensides on which there > >> are no chondrules to see, which explains the > comment of a > >> honored list member, > >> who did not find chondrules on the fractured > surfaces of > >> his specimen. Any > >> larger polished cut surface will show well defined > >> chondrules in good contrast. > >> > >> > >> We will continue the report on our website with > additional > >> informatio and I am > >> looking forward to hear impressions on the new > material > >> from Tucson. > >> > >> Thanks for your interest > >> > >> Svend > >> > >> > >> > >> www.meteorite-recon.com > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> > >> Message: 3 > >> Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 08:12:25 -0800 (PST) > >> From: Michael Gilmer > > >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] [AD] Oriented > chondrites > >> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >> Message-ID: > >> <7336.64596.qm at web58402.mail.re3.yahoo.com> > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > >> > >> Hi Tomasz! > >> > >> What a SPECTACULAR oriented stone! That first > stone is > >> absolutely > >> beautiful. I cannot afford to buy, but it sure is > fun to > >> window > >> shop. ;) > >> > >> Best regards and clear skies, > >> > >> MikeG > >> > >> > ......................................................... > >> Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > >> Member of the Meteoritical Society. > >> Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > >> Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and > >> http://www.glassthrower.com > >> > .......................................................... > >> > >> > >> > >> Message: 14 > >> Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2009 11:52:23 +0100 > >> From: "Tomasz Jakubowski" > > >> Subject: [meteorite-list] [AD] Oriented chondrites > >> To: meteorite-list > >> > >> Message-ID: <49857ee7b11f56.22021155 at wp.pl> > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 > >> > >> Dear List Members, > >> > >> I have beautiful oriented, fresh chondrites from > Sahara > >> desert. > >> Both of specimen are full oriented, with radial > flow lines, > >> rollover > >> lips and fresh fusion cust. > >> > >> First of them have 485 grams. Amazing > orientation!! I > >> purchased this > >> specimen 2 years ago in Rissani. > >> > http://picasaweb.google.pl/illaenus/NWAOriented485Grams# > >> > >> Second piece have 435 grams : > >> > http://picasaweb.google.pl/illaenus/NWAOriented435G# > >> > >> > >> Offers and questions please send direct to - > >> illaenus at gmail.com > >> > >> > >> Kind Regards > >> Tomasz Jakubowski > >> IMCA #2321 > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Free Tibet > >> > >> > ---------------------------------------------------- > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> > >> Message: 4 > >> Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 10:59:46 -0600 (GMT-06:00) > >> From: RJP > >> Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Dhofar 910 Lunar - > Lowest > >> Price! > >> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >> Message-ID: > >> > <8719009.1233507586679.JavaMail.root at elwamui-norfolk.atl.sa.earthlink.net> > >> > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > >> > >> I remember a week or so ago, someone mentioned > that Dhofar > >> 910 could not be found for less than ~$775/g. > >> > >> Well, here you go... "a cure for the Tucson > >> blues", a "super Bowl Special".. as > some > >> dealers proclaim. > >> > >> Dhofar 910 - 0.74g thin slice, dimensions of 23 X > 9 X 2mm. > >> Large clast of anorthosite, gas bubbles, ect. > >> > >> $675 per gram plus fifty cent!.. Priority Mail > postage. > >> This is my rock bottom price. See photos here: > >> > >> http://outdoors.webshots.com/album/569165160RMTnOx > >> > >> Please email with additional questions and/or to > obtain > >> larger photos. Thanks! > >> > >> Ryan Pawelski > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Meteorite-list mailing list > >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > >> > >> > >> End of Meteorite-list Digest, Vol 65, Issue 2 > >> ********************************************* > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From bobadebt at ec.rr.com Sun Feb 1 21:34:01 2009 From: bobadebt at ec.rr.com (David & Kitt Deyarmin) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 21:34:01 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Please Keep an Eye out for Spheres at Tucson Message-ID: As some of you may know I collect Meteorite Spheres Once again I could not make it to Tucson. So if your at the show and happen to notice a Meteorite Sphere PLEASE give the seller the following info David Deyarmin bobadebt at ec.rr.com 252 444 6728 All of the spheres in my collection are 50mm in diameter. I can have a larger sphere reduced but I obviously can't do anything with a smaller sphere. However, I would rather not miss an opportunity so even if it looks close please give the seller my info. Thanks BTW: You can view my entire collection at: http://home.roadrunner.com/~bobadebt From dave at fallingrocks.com Sun Feb 1 22:27:37 2009 From: dave at fallingrocks.com (Dave Gheesling) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 22:27:37 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Green spot in chondrite In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, Bernd/All, I've seen this once before and wondered as well, also guessing similarly: http://www.fallingrocks.com/Collections/Millen.htm. All best, Dave -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 3:02 PM To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Green spot in chondrite Hello Rob and List, http://home.planet.nl/~rlenssen/green_spot_in_chondrite.jpg "Can anybody explain to me what I am seeing here?" This may be a magnesium-rich orthopyroxene crystal => hypersthene (Mg,Fe)SiO3 What do others think? Best, Bernd ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From dave at fallingrocks.com Sun Feb 1 22:35:27 2009 From: dave at fallingrocks.com (Dave Gheesling) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 22:35:27 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] FW: Additional report on the Tamdakht meteoritefall - correction In-Reply-To: <28906286.1634171233502621098.JavaMail.servlet@kundenserver> References: <28906286.1634171233502621098.JavaMail.servlet@kundenserver> Message-ID: <536E64A7E7C34A07B642FEF1C4A8D2EB@meteorroom> Super, Svend. Vielen Dank! Dave www.fallingrocks.com -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Meteorite-Recon.com Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 10:37 AM To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] FW: Additional report on the Tamdakht meteoritefall - correction sorry, wrong link, it should have read like this: http://www.meteorite-recon.com/en/meteorite%20tamdaght%201.htm Svend ---------------- Good Morning everybody, After reading through the various posts on the subject, private correspondence, media reports, field photos, coordinates and information streaming in from Morocco, I personally have arrived at the conclusion that Tamdakht is a meteorite fall, which is much better documented than similar events of the past. I appreciate the work the Morrocan enthusiasts, hunters and dealers have accomplished. Particularly as they were able to locate the fall site before the heavy rains in mid January. Philippe Thomas was already so kind to share information on his website and I think he did a great job in giving an accurate picture. I too had the fortune to receive 1st hand reports from the field from our Moroccan friends and I have compiled these in the report published here: http://www.meteorite-recon.com/en/meteorite%20tamdaght%202.htm The report also contains the English translation of the article in "Al Masah" from December 28. Note that the article speaks of a similar fireball sighting in Tunesia from December 18. The Tunesian fireball also produced seismic shock waves. This may become interesting should fresh finds from Tunesia become public in the near future. I may add a few personal thoughts on issues discussed here on the list, regarding the Tamdakht fall and its recovery: "the impact was heard" Several witnesses, including those interviewd by the newspaper "Al Masah" stated that a "seismic shock wave was heard and the ground was shaking at the "collision of the celestial body with a mountain." At that time the location of the potential touchdown was still unknown. It is most probable that eye witnesses, unfamiliar with meteoritic phenomena, presumed that such sounds could only be caused by an explosion due to an impact. Anybody who has ever done an interview with an eyewitness of a meteorite fall will recognize this assumption as it is quite common. "the crater vs. impact pit issue" There has been some confusion regarding field images from the Tamdakht area. It is very common to hear "pit" or "hole" translated as "crater". We had that with the Hosur fall and the Bassikounou fall, where eye witnesses and official sources reported "craters" that were in fact an impact pits, or impact holes. This is particularly an issue when reports in Arab or French are translated into English, but there are probably a number of other languages that do not provide capability to distinguish between both terms precisely. "chondrules vs no chondrules" Anyone who had the chance to study material of the Tamdakht fall will agree that the material differs enough from the known Mahgreb falls to distinguish it from other material circulating. Most fractured surfaces show chondrules, although they are usually small (1-2mm) and are quite fading with the surrounding matrix. Some fractured surfaces show slickensides on which there are no chondrules to see, which explains the comment of a honored list member, who did not find chondrules on the fractured surfaces of his specimen. Any larger polished cut surface will show well defined chondrules in good contrast. We will continue the report on our website with additional informatio and I am looking forward to hear impressions on the new material from Tucson. Thanks for your interest Svend www.meteorite-recon.com ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From dave at fallingrocks.com Sun Feb 1 22:49:51 2009 From: dave at fallingrocks.com (Dave Gheesling) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 22:49:51 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] time to feed some knuckle sandwiches In-Reply-To: <003d01c983cd$cc380ed0$6401a8c0@HOME> References: <003d01c983cd$cc380ed0$6401a8c0@HOME> Message-ID: <0D39013084E9472BBCD1CEFB26FE41FF@meteorroom> Hello, All, Sorry to come in late on this one, but I'm just catching up on this thread. Hopefully the suggestion I've quoted below didn't get anywhere, as this sort of concession would not only be completely unwarranted but also very well the beginning of the end. Stop selling Campos?! Even with those list members -- whom I must respectfully yet completely disagree with on this -- who would like to see the values of meteorites fall such that they can keep "dollar cost averaging" (as we call it here in the US) and eventually buy meteorites for nothing, this would seem to to fall astray of any reasonable aims to maximize material recovery and, therefore, availability...? "3. As mentioned before, IMCA members would have to agree to follow very strict rules of conduct concerning other countries laws, that may mean the removal of listings and sales of certain falls, would the bigger dealers be willing to stop selling things (such as Campos for example) if it were required to move forward with this? Obviously certian concessions may have to be made, as a group would we be willing to do that?" All best, Dave www.fallingrocks.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Greg Catterton To: IMCA at imcamail.de Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 3:44 AM Subject: Re: [IMCA] IMCA stance on exportation law But to take a stand on an issue, one should know what exactly they will be standing for... I think to make such a stand for an issue of this nature, one should have a plan and goals set. The things you dont want this to drift to, in my opinion are all factors in what the final outcome would be. It would be easy and probably not as effective to say "The IMCA endorses free market meteorite exportation" but why? What are the reasons we want it? what will a post to a website do? If the IMCA is to make a change, we should have an outline as to the reasons why and the benifits as well as a plan to make a change, not just a post to a website. To have free export would be a good thing and I am all for what you are saying, I just think for a statement to be made that will actually mean something, it needs to be able to have something to back it up. Someplace that does not allow exportation will not give that up unless they are getting something out of it.... why should they? I may be thinking too big here, but if you think a simple post to the IMCA website will do anything, I think you are wrong. I am not taking a stab at anyone who sells meteorites, if not for them, I would not have a collection to enjoy. I simply think these are issues that should be addressed before a public statement is issued. Greg C. --- On Fri, 1/30/09, McCartney Taylor wrote: From: McCartney Taylor Subject: Re: [IMCA] IMCA stance on exportation law To: IMCA at imcamail.de, IMCA at imcamail.de Date: Friday, January 30, 2009, 7:58 PM This issue clearly is beginning to get mission creep. I'm only asking IMCA to take a position, and post it. That's it. Simple. The Board decides to endorse free market exportation or something else. Then posts it to their website. This issue could be deliberated by email and posted to the website within 24 hours. Please don't let side issue get wrapped up in the main issue. Don't let the issue drift to: 1. weight the ethics of dealers vs science institutions 2. find a policy for the handling of exportation of material 3. education outreach 4. make every member swear on a bible some oath 5. design and implement the logistics of enforcement 6. finance a 2 year long study to contemplate the issue -------- Original Message -------- > From: Greg Catterton > > Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 6:15 PM > To: IMCA at imcamail.de > Subject: Re: [IMCA] IMCA stance on exportation law > > I think the most important thing to do if the IMCA is to do this is start now. > > Questions I would have and things I would like to see discussed. > ** I use the term "dealer" as anyone who would profit off the sale of the meteorites ** > > 1. What would the intent be of this? For dealers to buy/sell or scientific study or both? > > 2. If for dealer use, would we back an idea/suggestion that some sort of % of material to be donated for study? I know of several small science centers and local schools that would really benifit from having material for educational use and public display that simply dont have the budget to aquire meteorites. There are also many college geology depts that dont have the access to them. > I think that by offering a certian % of all material exported for educational/research use would go along way to showing good intent and not just wanting to make money of selling them. > > 3. As mentioned before, IMCA members would have to agree to follow very strict rules of conduct concerning other countries laws, that may mean the removal of listings and sales of certain falls, would the bigger dealers be willing to stop selling things (such as Campos for example) if it were required to move forward with this? Obviously certian concessions may have to be made, as a group would we be willing to do that? > > 4. To undertake something of this nature we would most likely need money to go about this, how would we get it together? > > 5. Im sure this is something that would require alot of time invested into it from most likely many people... do we have the people to do this that can spend the amount of time needed? > > 6. Would the fact that many of the IMCA members are dealers give the wrong impression? > > 7. The IMCA should be able to show contributions to science/education and members who do this (without doing becouse of needing to meet requirements of testing/classification, for monetary gain etc..) should get the information together to present a sincere intent to benifit others - I really think this would be the best way to proceed. > > 8. We need to have something to allow dealers to sell and collectors to collect, that is after all why we are all members... I think it will be a delicate balance and alot of headache to do this in a way that best reflects the IMCA members as a group. > > 9. would this pertain to members of the IMCA only or everybody in general? I think an IMCA only thing might be good as it would be easier to "police" the actions of exporters and also give the IMCA board more say in issues, but doing an IMCA only thing could also have downsides... > > > > --- On Fri, 1/30/09, Rob McCafferty > wrote: > > > From: Rob McCafferty > > Subject: [IMCA] IMCA stance on exportation law > To: ncc at meteoris.de , IMCA at imcamail.de > Date: Friday, January 30, 2009, 6:28 PM > > > There have been many good points raised in this discussion. > > That MetSoc are not entirely supportive of collectors is unfortunate but perhaps, predictable. > It cannot have escaped the attention of anyone involved in collecting/dealing meteoritic material in the last few years, that there is a proportion of the meteorite community who are extremely voiciferous in their objection toward those who collect and deal. Words such as pirates and bounty hunters are unhelpful and I dearly hope do not reflect my character under the rankings of ordinary people. > > However, certain considerations must be taken into account. > > Many meteorites fall in under-developed nations or areas. These, due to their large geographical areas are difficult to police or have underdeveloped laws. > In developed nations, the public perception of rocks of huge value being hightailed out to foreigners may be seen as "unsavoury". > > The perception is that material is being stolen. > > Whatever your feelings on this perception, it is real to some people who are prepared to make a lot of noise about it and noisy people tend to get heard. It doesn't matter whether they're right and that's an important point to remember. Often the people listening are the ones who make the legislation. > > In some countries, particularly the underdeveloped, the perception of theft raises the concept of social injustice. > In richer ones, struggling with social systems to support, governments may feel a need to prevent such "wealth" (however fortuitously gained) from being squandered by the material leaving the country. I know that doesn't make sense but we all know how the free press and democratic government works. > This is by no means an exhaustive assesment of the situation but it is representative. > > Finders keepers is an idealised scenario. It simply cannot work, though. If a 4kg lunar landed in your yard and your neighbour went into your yard to pick it up and made a fortune from it, how would you feel? > > Forget trespass laws, just consider the concept from a worldwide perspective. If I found a meteorite on a pavement/sidewalk....do I own it? > Surely, if the council maintain the pavement, I am duty bound to tell them. Do they own it? Do I get part of it? > > The IMCA is supposed to be supporting the interests of meteorite collectors and dealers worldwide. > I have my own ideas as to how this is best done and they will not be universally popular. > > We must agree to uphold every soveriegn nations laws, whether we agree with them or not. > Our members must be familiar with the export laws for each nation they wish to deal with and adhere to them unwaveringly. > We must not allow our members to flout laws of sovereign nations. > We must endeavour to provide impartial advice and guidance that can inform policy makers of such laws as they are being made. > > As the NWA fields dry up, it will become more important not to find ourselves marginalised. > > I am thoroughly convinced that we, as a community, have advanced the science of meteoritics more in the last 10 years than in the past 10,000 combined.. > > We have to set our rules to support every nation. > We must enforce those rules vigorously. > May the most honest and fair dealer (and collectors in general) win. > > Rob > > > > > > --- On Fri, 1/30/09, Norbert Classen > wrote: > > > From: Norbert Classen > > > Subject: AW: [IMCA] IMCA stance on exportation law > > To: leandro.saracino at oacl.net , IMCA at imcamail.de > > Date: Friday, January 30, 2009, 11:56 AM > > Dear Leandro, McCartney, Mark, Greg, and All, > > > > We at the Board of Directors have been following this > > discussion with much > > interest, especially since we are discussing this issue on > > Board since some > > months now. Actually, we are planning to send a delegation > > of IMCA Board > > members (who are also Meteoritical Society members) to this > > years MetSoc > > Meeting in Nancy, France, to attend the Meeting, and > > especially the > > discussion of the MetSocs Ethics Group which is already > > working on > > suggestions to Governments re new meteorite laws, and legal > > restrictions. > > This is very important as the suggestions of the MetSocs > > Ethics Group are > > everything else but collector/hunter friendly, and so we > > will have to act. > > Fortunatelly, the suggestions of the Ethics Group were > > turned down last year > > by the MetSoc Council because they didn't represent all > > parties and > > interests involved, and so the IMCA will take this chance > > to speak up for > > these other "parties". > > > > However, lots of homework has to be done regarding working > > out our > > "official" stance on meteorite laws. Even among > > us Board members (who are > > from different countries with different legal systems, and > > backgrounds) > > there is no perfect agreement regarding some very basic > > questions such as > > meteorite ownership. While the laws of many countries > > consider the landowner > > as the rightful owner of a meteorite which fell or was > > recovered on his > > property other countries consider a meteorite to be a > > "res nullius", an > > object with no former owner that becomes the property of > > the finder through > > the act of appropriation. Like the German court that ruled > > that the finder > > of the second mass of Neuschwanstein is the legal owner > > against the claims > > of Austria (where it was recovered) I personally also tend > > to that > > interpretation, i.e., to regard a meteorite as a true > > "res nullius". But > > then other Board members are making good points in arguing > > against it and in > > favor of the rights of the landowner. > > > > I'm just telling this to show you that there are many > > things to consider, > > and that we are in the process of doing our homework, also > > to be prepared > > for the Nancy Meeting. This will also most certainly leed > > to an official > > stance of the IMCA on meteorite laws, and meteorite > > exportation laws. So > > your discussion is more than welcome as it gives us some > > more insights in > > the interests and positions of our Membership, and > > additional input for our > > Board discussions. Thanks for speaking up. > > > > All the best, > > Norbert Classen > > President IMCA Inc. > > > > PS: Due to the ongoing Tucson show some of our Board > > members will not be > > able to take part in this discussion, but be assured that > > your voices are > > heard, and that we will come back to this issue as soon as > > the show is over. > > > > _____ > > > > Von: imca-bounces at imcamail.de > > [mailto:imca-bounces at imcamail.de ] Im Auftrag > > von leandro.saracino at oacl.net > > Gesendet: Freitag, 30. Januar 2009 12:17 > > An: IMCA at imcamail.de > > Betreff: [IMCA] IMCA stance on exportation law > > > > > > Greg (C.), Steve, all, > > generalizing a single behaviour to the whole community of > > scientists does > > not help us understand what we can do. > > Doing science on a meteorite is time consuming, it is a lab > > work and it must > > be made carefully, and usually one doesn't need a huge > > quantity of material. > > So a meteorite scientist is more interested in someone > > sending to his/her > > lab a bit of a new fall/find and study it, than going to > > the field and find > > the stones on his/her own. Getting funds for the research > > itself is already > > hard, consider asking much more money for continuous field > > trips to every > > corner of the world! > > No, only a stupid scientist would ask his/her government to > > block meteorite > > hunting in his/her country. And scientists are not stupid > > people. Anyway, > > the jealousy you are speaking of can be restricted to a few > > events of new > > falls, and then only to the more scientifically interesting > > ones; I can't > > imagine a scientist jealous of letting dealers ger some > > money on a new > > ordinary H5... > > Greg, I agree it may happen and that in a few cases it may > > have already > > happened, but I'm sure that's not the rule. > > Let us also consider that sometimes a government or some > > scientists of that > > given country, can be irritated by the behaviour of some > > prospectors, either > > for right or wrong reasons. Maybe some of the actual laws > > in many countries > > are more a way to get rid of the problem than to solve it. > > I don't think > > that the amount of money being circulated by the meteorite > > market might be > > even taken in consideration by governments; simply the > > figures are way too > > low to be interesting. But they react to what they > > don't understand, and > > their reaction can be a bad law. > > What we can surely do is being recognized as a bone fide > > organization that > > can work together with governments and scientific > > institutions in saving, > > keeping and studying meteorites, and then starting a series > > of official > > endeavours to clarify to governments and citizens what is > > the real meaning > > and usefulness of the meteorite science and collecting. > > Politicians must understand that any unrecovered, > > segregated and unstudied > > meteorite is a precious information lost to Mankind, both > > in terms of pure > > Science and of potential safety from the Cosmic Hazard. A > > meteorite buried > > in the sand or in the arctic ices is useful to nobody, but > > also a meteorite > > that lays untouched and unstudied on a dusty shelf of a > > museum is of very > > little utility to knowledge. > > My thought is very simple: let them be educated, before > > imposing to them a > > rule of any kind. > > > > Yes, we (IMCA) can (make it)! :-) > > > > Leandro > > IMCA 2689 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > IMCA mailing list > > IMCA at imcamail.de > > http://lists.imcamail.de/mailman/listinfo/imca > > > > _______________________________________________ > IMCA mailing list > IMCA at imcamail.de > http://lists.imcamail.de/mailman/listinfo/imca > > _______________________________________________ > IMCA mailing list > IMCA at imcamail.de > http://lists.imcamail.de/mailman/listinfo/imca _______________________________________________ IMCA mailing list IMCA at imcamail.de http://lists.imcamail.de/mailman/listinfo/imca ________________________________ _______________________________________________ IMCA mailing list IMCA at imcamail.de http://lists.imcamail.de/mailman/listinfo/imca From dave at fallingrocks.com Sun Feb 1 22:59:24 2009 From: dave at fallingrocks.com (Dave Gheesling) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 22:59:24 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Tucson questions and predictions In-Reply-To: <8CB51E10F661D4C-A00-28C7@webmail-md01.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CB51E10F661D4C-A00-28C7@webmail-md01.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Thanks for the laughs, Sonny...some don't give a rats a** and some are too busy showing their own...unbelievable, yet unfortunately increasingly typical. Look forward to seeing everyone in Tucson, and thanks again, Mr. Johnson and Ms. Delray, for the great pics and videos! All best, Dave www.fallingrocks.com -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of wahlperry at aol.com Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 12:33 PM To: geraldbensman at live.com; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Tucson questions and predictions Dear Gerald, To: wahlperry at aol.com Sent: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 8:34 am Subject: [meteorite-list] Tucson questions and predictions "To make everyone happy for the high cost of travel, rooms, food etc I will be giving FREE autographs and photo opportunities to the first 200 people." ? LOL- it that supposed to be some kind of a joke or something???? Who gives a rats ass if anyone gets your FREE autograph and photo opportunitues to the first 200 people. LOL? There's not even 200 people in the whole world that knows who you are and even if they did- you're not some god worthy of wasting anyones time getting your autograph.LOL ? Gerald Windows Live? Hotmail?: more than just e-mail. Check it out. = ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From zilla237 at hotmail.com Sun Feb 1 23:51:49 2009 From: zilla237 at hotmail.com (Dean Miera) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 21:51:49 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Test Message-ID: Test _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live? Hotmail??more than just e-mail. http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_howitworks_012009 From mikewren at gilanet.com Mon Feb 2 00:55:35 2009 From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 22:55:35 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] IF you want to enjoy up to 50% off you will have to join my ebay store list. Message-ID: Hello, I just got back from a quick trip to Tucson, mostly I was working at two Hospitals with friends of mine and had very little time for the show. I want to tell you about my "many sales" these last 6 months, especially the last 3 months. I have been working with a family-a mother and son who have a serious medical crisis in their life. The son has terminal cancer throughout his body, but especially in the brain. I have been helping them out with expenses. The boy is 7 years old. She is a single mom with a 7 year old boy who is dying. They are not relatives, but just well loved members in our community. So, because of my relentless sales-I have raised about $5,000.00 for this family and for those of you who have purchased from me thanks. On the other hand those of you who have whined and cried like babies because of the extra sale posts-I really don't care what you think. Sorry. Anyway, if you want to enjoy a upcoming - 50% off on select items in my ebay store- you will have to sign up by going through my home page and sign up for the newsletter thing on the bottom left. The sale will be in the near future. IT WILL NOT APPEAR ON THE MET-LIST. Money from this 50% off sale will go to help this boy and his mother. http://stores.ebay.com/voyage-botanica-natural-history Thanks and Best Wishes Michael From info at niger-meteorite-recon.de Mon Feb 2 01:25:51 2009 From: info at niger-meteorite-recon.de (Meteorite-Recon.com) Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2009 07:25:51 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Possible new fall: "Meteorite hits Akhnoor" Kashmir Message-ID: <26074023.1654631233555951569.JavaMail.servlet@kundenserver> There is a news report on a new fall in Kashmir, of Saturday night, January 31, 2009, 11:25 p.m. local time: "AZHAR RAFIQIE Srinagar, Feb 1: A meteorite hit Akhnoor area in Jammu, Saturday night following which many astronomical organizations rushed their teams to study the phenomenon on the spot. The meteorite, according to the locals, descended in the open ground at 11.25 pm. However, it didn?t cause any damage to life or property, owing to its smaller size and low velocity, the locals added. Many astronomical organizations including Indian Space Research Organization, TATA Institute of Research and the Kashmir University dispatched their teams to the area. One of the experts, who was on the spot, told Greater Kashmir over phone, ?The meteorite was not that big in size otherwise it would have caused much damage due to its impact. It can prove more dangerous if its velocity and size is larger. It can cause serious damage and create a huge crater on earth.? He said that facts would only come to fore after the research would be over. ?We are assessing the samples and the impact area. We would be able to come to any conclusion after the research is over,? he added. Meteorites are the parts of solar system and keep hitting earth. When it enters the atmosphere, impact pressure causes the body to heat-up and emit light, thus forming a fireball, also known as a meteor or shooting star. Most meteorites disintegrate when entering the earth?s atmosphere. However, an estimated 500 meteorites ranging in size from marbles to basketballs or larger do reach the surface each year; only 5 or 6 of these are typically recovered and made known to scientists." end of quote source: http://www.greaterkashmir.com/full_story.asp?Date=2_2_2009&ItemID=29&cat=21 Best regards Svend Buhl --- www.meteorite-recon.com From info at mcomemeteorite.it Mon Feb 2 03:06:16 2009 From: info at mcomemeteorite.it (M come Meteorite Meteorites) Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2009 09:06:16 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Alfianello and Girgenti very low price Message-ID: <4986a978.1f1.4da5.709097206@webmaildh3.aruba.it> I sale 2 pieces of historical italian material for a very low price Alfianello - 20.4 grams end piece with copy of old labels Euro 800,00 Girgenti - Slice from British Museum London gr.7.9 Euro 700,00 from the 800,00 I have pay years ago For photos and info contact me matteo M come Meteorite Meteoriti info at mcomemeteorite.it http://www.mcomemeteorite.it http://www.mcomemeteorite.info Mindat Gallery http://www.mindat.org/gallery-5018.html From info at meteorites.com.au Mon Feb 2 03:19:09 2009 From: info at meteorites.com.au (Jeff Kuyken) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 19:19:09 +1100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Green spot in chondrite In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5530247C46EA41628F57289CDC4A53DC@JeffPC> Hi Bernd and Rob, That would be my first guess too Bernd. But the crust has me stumped. I can't work out if it's a weathering effect or different material underneath. It does look similar to eucritic fusion crust even down to the cracking though. Weird! Cheers, Jeff ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 7:02 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Green spot in chondrite > Hello Rob and List, > > http://home.planet.nl/~rlenssen/green_spot_in_chondrite.jpg > > "Can anybody explain to me what I am seeing here?" > > This may be a magnesium-rich orthopyroxene crystal => hypersthene > (Mg,Fe)SiO3 > > What do others think? > > Best, > > Bernd > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From argotron at gmail.com Mon Feb 2 03:30:40 2009 From: argotron at gmail.com (Alex Gotron) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 10:30:40 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Green spot in chondrite In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Seems like kryptonite to me... On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 6:02 AM, wrote: > Hello Rob and List, > > http://home.planet.nl/~rlenssen/green_spot_in_chondrite.jpg > > "Can anybody explain to me what I am seeing here?" > > This may be a magnesium-rich orthopyroxene crystal => hypersthene (Mg,Fe)SiO3 > > What do others think? > > Best, > > Bernd > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From mark.ford at ssl.gb.com Mon Feb 2 04:33:16 2009 From: mark.ford at ssl.gb.com (Mark Ford) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 09:33:16 -0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] Bogus indochinites? In-Reply-To: <618023.28690.qm@web58403.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <7609E7327B2A4FA0BB362EEDF07F047B@lunatic> <618023.28690.qm@web58403.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <29A9DB45B84970458190D7D39BD42C494FAFC4@gamma.ssl.atw> Actually I've seen plenty of dodgey black glass indochinites for sale in gem shops, (its a bit obvious when they have sometimes have perfectly flat edges or mold lines and the glass style varies) and also there have been quite a few repro button Australites for sale on ebay, (admittedly they are clearly labeled as glass reproductions, and they are great if you can't afford the real thing), but who's to say they will always be labeled as reproduction when sold on again in the future? Green glass moldavite is also way too easy to fake, (it can be either melted and tumbled green beer or wine bottle glass). As always - know your seller and only deal with those you trust, always ask questions! As far as I know the only way to be 100% sure is either chemical isotope testing, or the destructive 'thermal stress test' using heat/water and watching it shatter!! Mark -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Michael Gilmer Sent: 31 January 2009 22:35 To: riffraff at timewarp.de Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Bogus indochinites? Hi Norbert, I don't have any photos yet, but I will snap some as soon as the specimens arrive. Here is a link to the auction. It has a photo, but you can't tell much by looking at it. I am inclined to believe they are real because what motive would someone have to fake something as common as indochinites? But, as an aspiring dealer, my reputation is important to me, so I am not going to sell anything I am unsure of. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190281828566 A few people emailed me about this - most share the opinion that indochinites are too common and cheap to be worth faking. Moldavite can be expensive, so there is good motive there for a scammer to fake it. Indochinites I am not so sure about. Heck, if I was a scammer and wanted to make bogus tektites, I'd find some way to manufacture fake Australite buttons - at least those sell for good money. Regards and clear skies, MikeG ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us. Email info at ssl.gb.com. You should not copy or use this email or attachment(s) for any purpose nor disclose their contents to any other person. GENERAL STATEMENT: Southern Scientific Ltd's computer systems may be monitored and communications carried on them recorded, to secure the effective operation of the system and for other lawful purposes. Registered address Rectory Farm Rd, Sompting, Lancing, W Sussex BN15 0DP. Company No 1800317 From mexicodoug at aim.com Mon Feb 2 04:48:25 2009 From: mexicodoug at aim.com (mexicodoug at aim.com) Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2009 04:48:25 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Lunar KREEP IMB, Double Martian, Rare Goodies, Giant LDG, etc. Message-ID: <8CB53328732735A-16C0-1102@webmail-mf02.sysops.aol.com> Dear List, I think you will find the following list of items for a GREAT PLANETARY AND OTHER GOODIES' sale truly exciting and exceptional. Please enjoy a look and share our excitement. We tried to make the pricing level as incredible as the pieces are rare and exciting. Regarding the Lunar, given the amazing characteristics of this little specimen, and the very low tkw including all pairings: With all due respect, this $550/g price for this single specimen is likely never to be repeated except after this Tucson celebration fire sale to raise fast money for an upcoming expedition. It is so hard not to be emotionally charged about this :-)... The GREAT PLANETARY AND OTHER GOODIES' sale link is: www.diogenite.com/Tucson We are doing this to ends meet at Tucson and finance some world class meteoriting - Sacrificing the following Planetary meteorites and other rare, real goodies, plus Giant Libyan Desert Glass Specimens, at up to HALF THE PRICE of their already LOW, LOW, did I mention sinfully LOW prices! No BS, just deals unplugged to move... Our motivation is to your benefit for these exceptional and rare items, without further ado, gimmicks and glabbrodygook, these will not only hold their own against recent planetary offerings, but to experts, in our opinion compare favorably (check out that exciting (at least to me - it's got everything including KREEP and really deserves the sort of announcement for the best of the best, but the little material may be gone by then... worked out Lunar tkw = 126g including all earthly pairing). PayPal is accepted with a smile! In Tucson, 2% cash discount and free hand delivery. For postage in the US kindly add $5.50 priority mail (plus $2 for insurance up to $100 USD and $1 for each additional $100 or fraction of it). First come first serve. DaG 1037 Martian Shergottite Big endpiece and slices FRESH Allende (CV3) collected decades ago Dho 1170/1128 group FRESH Ureilite hefty crusted endpiece Dho 1442 Lunar (KREEP Impact Melt Breccia with Mare Basalt very low extended tkw - unpaired) Dronino (Ataxite anon) (yesterday-s lowest prices and the field is now exhausted) Libyan Desert Glass 2 HUGE!!! pieces 2 - 2.5 kg Monze (L6) complete 90%+ crusted stone: Witnessed fall Oct 5, 1950 from tropical Africa NWA 1664 FRESH solid Howardite, nice slice from single crusted stone NWA 2986 Martian shergottite likely pairing mini endpiece and razor thin whole slices approx. 1 cm in diameter and only a quarter to a third of a gram! Seymchan siderite cherry picked bright slice at rock-bottom prices that have become history precisely this week Beautiful BIG Tatahouines, one with incredible lamella - o-pyroxene crystalline layers, and another with some fine impact horsetails Thuathe (H4/5) July 21, 2002 witnessed fall in the temporate southern tip of Africa, fully crusted 99%+ Kindly excuse the rushed webpage, but there is so much going on here in Tucson that it is very difficult to concentrate for long period of time a good webpage requires. Great Health and Great Hunting, Doug From Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr Mon Feb 2 05:50:49 2009 From: Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr (Zelimir Gabelica) Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2009 11:50:49 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] More on green spots in stoneys In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20090202095139.03171310@pop.univ-mulhouse.fr> Hi Bernd, Jeff, Rob, all, Bernd, I would fairly agree with your conclusions regarding the green phase discovered by Rob. Many silicate minerals that contain larger quantities of Mg sometimes indeed often do show greenish shades. If we just consider the pyroxene group (quite likely represented in stone meteorites though pyroxenes are far from being the only silicate group in stoneys), Augite (Ca,Mg,Fe2+)2Si2O6, Aegirine-Augite (Ca,Na)(Mg, Fe2+, Fe3+)Si2O6, Enstatite or Clinoenstatite (both Mg2Si2O6) and especially diopside, (CaMgSi2O6) often show green-like colors, at least when from terrestrial origin. There are 22 mineral species in the pyroxene group, some other of them also containing, among other, Mg2+ cations (e.g. Donpeacorite, Jervisite, Kanoite, Omphacite, Petedunite or...Pigeonite, this latter mineral being very often present in ordinary chondrites!) Still considering the pyroxene family, an interesting pyroxene candidate that would readily involve green color would be Kosmochlor, thus NaCr3+Si2O6. In this case, I'd expect a frank green color, that most of Cr3+ bearing salts (silicates) would exhibit (synthetic silicate chemistry). The mineral, as found in various terrestrial deposits, is indeed said to exhibit a "pale green" or "emerald-green" color (Mindat). Its name etymology is interesting ("Kosmos" = Cosmic origin, while "chlor" = "green" in Greek) I don't know if this phase was ever found in stone meteorites but it was reported to occur in at least 3 irons: Toluca (where it was first discovered), Coahuila and Canon Diablo... I can provide a pic showing green kosmochlor from Myanmar (Mindat), where it apparently forms solid solutions with Jadeite and Na-Cr amphiboles (see: Mevel & Kienast, Bull. Miner. 109 (1987), 617); more recent data can be found in: "Shi et al., Miner. Mag., 69 (2005), 1059". Can someone from the List host some of my archive pics ? Also inteersting is the fact that pale green Cr- and Na-rich diopside (kosmochlor-bearing diopside) was observed in anhydrous group I mantle xenoliths (dunite, wehrlite, harzburgite, clinopyroxenite) hosted by Pliocene-Quaternary hawaiite from the Ngatutura volcanic field of the North Island, New Zealand (Ikehata et al., Smithsonian/NASA Astrophysics Data System, Amer. Geophys. union, Fall 2004 meeting abstracts). Natalyite, Na(V,Cr)Si2O6 is also a potentially interesting candidate (still contains Cr3+ ions that are partly isostructurally replaced by V3+ ions; it is "light green to yellow-green" (pic on request) Finally, I have in my meteorite coll. archives 3 pics showing a few similar pale-green millimetric rounded inclusions (most probably not chondrules, although...who knows ?). They were taken under high magnification in daylight by Roger Warin, our local pic expert and thin-section specialist (see web site: www.agab.be , click on "thin sections"). These green spots are from my 459 g full slice "Belle Plaine" (Kansas) (242x195x5 mm). Would be nice if someone (Bernd or...?) is willing to host these 5 pics should someone wish to have a look Contact me off list. Very interesting subject... All my best to all, expecting many of you had weird fun in Tucson (pics expected...) Zelimir A 20:02 01/02/2009 +0000, vous avez ?crit : >Hello Rob and List, > >http://home.planet.nl/~rlenssen/green_spot_in_chondrite.jpg > >"Can anybody explain to me what I am seeing here?" > >This may be a magnesium-rich orthopyroxene crystal => hypersthene (Mg,Fe)SiO3 > >What do others think? > >Best, > >Bernd > >______________________________________________ >http://www.meteoritecentral.com >Meteorite-list mailing list >Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Universit? de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 From ebay at biol.uw.edu.pl Mon Feb 2 06:27:31 2009 From: ebay at biol.uw.edu.pl (Woreczko meteorite-list) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 12:27:31 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] test References: <5.0.2.1.2.20090202095139.03171310@pop.univ-mulhouse.fr> Message-ID: <012501c98529$3e0cf640$9301a8c0@zeus> Ha test woreczko www.woreczko.pl From michael at spacerocksinc.com Mon Feb 2 06:28:23 2009 From: michael at spacerocksinc.com (Michael Johnson) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 03:28:23 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - February 2, 2009 Message-ID: <16458674.352621233574103672.JavaMail.root@mbs5.homesteadmail.com> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/February_2_2009.html From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com Mon Feb 2 07:35:24 2009 From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 04:35:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] superbowl good to me Message-ID: <997658.89268.qm@web57801.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Morning to all and especially the arizoners.Sorry for your loss last night.We thought they had it,but oooohhh nnnnoooooo.Pittsburg had to win.We were cardinal fans last night.But any way,I won the first half last night.$500 on a $10 square.More $$$$$ for tucson.It's amazing what 7 and 7 will get you.4 days till the arrival.Have a great day all and to all the sellers in tucson,may you all have an even better selling day.Just remember to save a couple of pieces for me. ? Steve R.Arnold,Chicago! http://chicagometeorites.net/ From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com Mon Feb 2 09:03:05 2009 From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 06:03:05 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] IF you want to enjoy up to 50% off you will have to join my ebay store list. Message-ID: Hello Michael, Please accept my small donation for your friends. I still have your address and I'll send it off today. Peace and health. Carl Hello, I just got back from a quick trip to Tucson, mostly I was working at two Hospitals with friends of mine and had very little time for the show. I want to tell you about my "many sales" these last 6 months, especially the last 3 months. I have been working with a family-a mother and son who have a serious medical crisis in their life. The son has terminal cancer throughout his body, but especially in the brain. I have been helping them out with expenses. The boy is 7 years old. She is a single mom with a 7 year old boy who is dying. They are not relatives, but just well loved members in our community. So, because of my relentless sales-I have raised about $5,000.00 for this family and for those of you who have purchased from me thanks. On the other hand those of you who have whined and cried like babies because of the extra sale posts-I really don't care what you think. Sorry. Anyway, if you want to enjoy a upcoming - 50% off on select items in my ebay store- you will have to sign up by going through my home page and sign up for the newsletter thing on the bottom left. The sale will be in the near future. IT WILL NOT APPEAR ON THE MET-LIST. Money from this 50% off sale will go to help this boy and his mother. http://stores.ebay.com/voyage-botanica-natural-history Thanks and Best Wishes Michael ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list [ _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live? Hotmail?:?more than just e-mail. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_explore_012009 From MeteorHntr at aol.com Mon Feb 2 11:33:24 2009 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 11:33:24 EST Subject: [meteorite-list] Brenhams in Lucite in Tucson Message-ID: Hello List, I arrived in Tucson last night after the long drive. It is great to be back in town. In addition to seeing many familiar faces, I was excited to have a chance to see the batch of Brenham meteorite slices that Geoff Notkin and I commissioned to be placed in Lucite. The shipment arrived in Tucson on Saturday. Not only should this embedment be a permanent fix on the Brenham rusting issue, these pieces have turned out to be VERY beautiful. Many will not even recognize these as Brenham. The meteorite that we took these slices from was from a Brenham specimen that Geoff and I found a couple of months ago during the filming of our new TV show that is scheduled to air on Discovery's Science Channel in May. So, the items are more than just pretty Brenham slices, they are affordable mementos of the TV program as well. I am pretty sure this is the first one-hour TV show entirely devoted to meteorite hunting, so here is your chance to grab a piece of history. This is a true meteorite collectible. When the TV show airs, and your friends who know that you are into meteorites say "Hey, did you see that new TV show about meteorites?" You can respond "Yea, I saw it, and not only that, I have an actual piece of that first meteorite that Geoff and Steve dug up on the show, right here..." And you can hand them your very own slice in Lucite. We had just 100 part slices, all the same size, put into Lucite, and if you are in Tucson, you have to stop buy Geoff and Anne's room to take a look at them. Some of the slices have VERY green colored crystals, and a few are very translucent, enough so that they almost have an "Esquel look" to them when the light comes through from behind. We are making these 100 each a "Limited Edition Tucson Show 2009 Collectible." Each numbered "___out of 100" with a C.O.A. and a photo from the TV shoot included. There are 8 pieces that I "high graded" as exceptional, and those will have a premium on their price. As for the other 92, they are all the same size, but there are varying degrees of quality in the pieces, and in their translucency, but all of those will be kept at the same basic unit price. So, I would suggest that if anyone is interested in looking at them, or in buying one, the sooner you get by Geoff and Anne's room at the InnSuites, the better the remaining selection you will have to choose from. On another note, I am in town with a batch of other specimens that I am carrying around. A lot of little items. So if anyone is interested in looking at what I have, call me on my Cell at 620-770-9612 and we can arrange to meet up and I can show you want I have. Oh, and the Birthday Bash is revving up to be the best ever this Friday...I can't wait. I hope to get to see many of you there again this year. OK, I am off now to check out all the stuff here... Steve Arnold #1 Birthday Boy #2 **************Great Deals on Dell Laptops. Starting at $499. (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1217883258x1201191827/aol?redir=http://www.dell.com/co ntent/products/features.aspx/laptops_great_deals?c=us%26cs=19%26l=en%26s=d hs%26~ck=anavml) From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Mon Feb 2 12:26:25 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 09:26:25 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA Selects Teams for Moon Impact Observation Campaign Message-ID: <200902021726.JAA20864@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> Feb. 02, 2009 Grey Hautaluoma Headquarters, Washington 202-358-0668 grey.hautaluoma-1 at nasa.gov Jonas Dino Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, Calif. 650-604-6512 jonas.dino at nasa.gov Frank Curran Universities Space Research Association, Huntsville, Ala. 256-971-0243 fcurran at usra.edu RELEASE: 09-013 NASA SELECTS TEAMS FOR MOON IMPACT OBSERVATION CAMPAIGN MOFFETT FIELD, Calif. -- NASA has selected four teams to observe the impact of the Lunar Crater Observation and Sensing Satellite, known as LCROSS, with the lunar surface during the mission's search for water ice on the moon. The LCROSS mission is a small companion mission to the Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter, scheduled to launch from Cape Canaveral, Fla., in spring 2009. Instruments aboard the satellite are designed to search for evidence of water ice on the moon as the spacecraft collides with a permanently shadowed crater near one of the moon's poles. The resulting debris plumes are expected to be visible from Earth with telescopes 10-to-12 inches in diameter or larger. These chosen observation teams will provide additional data and analysis about permanently shadowed craters to help researchers determine if water exists on the moon and in what form. The LCROSS mission and the Universities Space Research Association, or USRA, of Columbia, Md., established specific selection criteria. USRA administered the rigorous selection process. "The LCROSS team is extremely pleased with the quality of proposals received," said Jennifer Heldmann, lead for the LCROSS Observation Campaign at NASA's Ames Research Center in Moffett Field, Calif. "The contributions from the selected observation proposals will contribute substantially to the LCROSS mission." The selected proposals are: -- Accessing LCROSS Ejecta: Water Vapor and Particle Size and Composition from Keck, Gemini, and the IRFT Telescopes; principle investigator Eliot Young, Southwest Research Institute in Boulder, Colo. -- LCROSS Lunar Plume Observations with the Apache Point Observatory; principle investigator Nancy Chanover, New Mexico State University in Las Cruces. -- Multi-spectral Imaging of the LCROSS Impact; principle investigator Marc Buie, Southwest Research Institute. -- Searching for Polar Water Ice During the LCROSS Impact Using the MMT Observatory; principle investigator Faith Vilas, University of Arizona in Tucson. "We are proud to be a part of the process that will enable these very important observations and look forward to working with the principal investigators and our NASA counterparts to ensure success in the observation campaign," said Frank Curran, director of USRA's Operations in Huntsville, Ala. Curran was USRA's coordinator for the selection process. On the night of the impacts, the LCROSS science team will be in constant contact with professional astronomers to provide live targeting information. This information is crucial to ensuring the astronomers point their large telescopes correctly to capture the exact moment of the impacts and the resulting debris plumes. NASA's Ames Research Center developed the LCROSS science payload. Ames also is managing the project and conducting mission and science operations. NASA's Lunar Precursor Robotic Program at NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville managed the cooperative agreement with USRA. The Universities Space Research Association, established in 1969 by the National Academy of Sciences, is a private, nonprofit consortium of 102 universities offering advanced degrees in space- and aeronautics-related disciplines. For more information about the Lunar Crater Observation and Sensing Satellite mission, visit: http://www.nasa.gov/lcross For more information about the LCROSS Observation Campaign, visit: http://lcross.arc.nasa.gov/observation.htm For more information about the Universities Space Research Association, visit: http://www.usra.edu -end- From markig at westnet.com Mon Feb 2 12:29:45 2009 From: markig at westnet.com (Mark Grossman) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 12:29:45 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] IF you want to enjoy up to 50% off you will haveto join my ebay store list. References: Message-ID: <004201c9855b$d7867080$6501a8c0@QED> Was it really necessary to take a swipe at the people who expressed their thoughts about your frequent sales in the context of the rather serious situation you describe below and your wonderful acts of kindness to help the family you describe? Would it not have been better to take the high road and just thank the people who purchased items from you and let them know that the money went for a good cause? I purchased an item from you, so as you say, I helped out that family. But I also expressed my thoughts about the frequent sales in a very constructive way. So I guess I am the recipient of both your comments - your thanks for my buying something from you, and your "I don't give a "___" what you think for my thoughts. Well you know, the next time I see one of your sales, I think I will pass and make a donation to the American Cancer Society. In fact, perhaps you can tell the list members how to make a donation to the family directly, or to a charity that can get the money to them. So I am very happy that the money from your sales went to a good cause - some of my money included. But as one of your customers, I am really offended by your remarks. Mark Grossman ----- Original Message ----- From: "michael cottingham" To: Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 12:55 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] IF you want to enjoy up to 50% off you will haveto join my ebay store list. > Hello, > > I just got back from a quick trip to Tucson, mostly I was working at > two Hospitals with friends of mine and had very little time for the > show. > > I want to tell you about my "many sales" these last 6 months, > especially the last 3 months. I have been working with a family-a > mother and son who have a serious medical crisis in their life. The > son has terminal cancer throughout his body, but especially in the > brain. I have been helping them out with expenses. The boy is 7 years > old. She is a single mom with a 7 year old boy who is dying. They are > not relatives, but just well loved members in our community. > > So, because of my relentless sales-I have raised about $5,000.00 for > this family and for those of you who have purchased from me thanks. On > the other hand those of you who have whined and cried like babies > because of the extra sale posts-I really don't care what you think. > Sorry. > > Anyway, if you want to enjoy a upcoming - 50% off on select items in > my ebay store- you will have to sign up by going through my home page > and sign up for the newsletter thing on the bottom left. The sale will > be in the near future. IT WILL NOT APPEAR ON THE MET-LIST. Money > from this 50% off sale will go to help this boy and his mother. > > http://stores.ebay.com/voyage-botanica-natural-history > > > Thanks and Best Wishes > > Michael > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From daistiho at hotmail.com Mon Feb 2 12:50:30 2009 From: daistiho at hotmail.com (tracy latimer) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 17:50:30 +0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] More on green spots in stoneys In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20090202095139.03171310@pop.univ-mulhouse.fr> References: <5.0.2.1.2.20090202095139.03171310@pop.univ-mulhouse.fr> Message-ID: My curiosity was piqued with a hazy memory, and I went online searching for pictures of 'kosmochlor'. Now I remember where I had heard the term before; it's a variant of jadeite, often found in small quantities around the same deposits as what is known to jewelers as 'jade', but harder because of the fibrous composition. In the jewelry trade, it's often called 'mawsitsit', and is treated the same way as jade. At Tucson, I don't doubt that anyone who wants can find massive pieces of it, either raw or finished, if you want a comparison sample. Tracy Latimer ---------------------------------------- > Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 11:50:49 +0100 > To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com; bernd.pauli at paulinet.de > From: Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr > Subject: [meteorite-list] More on green spots in stoneys > > > Still considering the pyroxene family, an interesting pyroxene candidate > that would readily involve green color would be Kosmochlor, thus NaCr3+Si2O6. > > _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_allup_explore_012009 From mikewren at gilanet.com Mon Feb 2 12:54:31 2009 From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 10:54:31 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] IF you want to enjoy up to 50% off you will haveto join my ebay store list. In-Reply-To: <004201c9855b$d7867080$6501a8c0@QED> References: <004201c9855b$d7867080$6501a8c0@QED> Message-ID: Hello, Actually don't take offense-my comments were not meant for you. I will not ask the list for donations-that was never my intention. In fact I would of never mentioned any of this at all, except for the cowardly, whining of some people. I mean I have seen it for years and years now on this list- the "email courage" some people have is not that same they would have if they were face to face. Mostly, I do not see any reason to ask the list for donations. I am meteorite rich and it is easier for me to just sell some of my pieces and give the money directly. I thought it would be nice of me to explain to some of the folks on the list why my posts have been relentless lately. I have been doing this for many months now and not once have a mentioned any of this. Some of your comments are valid and others I might argue with-that is ok. Don't take offense because nothing here was intended for you in any negative way. Your emails are reasonable-others on this list are not-they are petty and bored emails. I for one would never hesitate to tell them this to their face, but frankly this is a waste of time for all... Best Wishes Michael On Feb 2, 2009, at 10:29 AM, Mark Grossman wrote: > Was it really necessary to take a swipe at the people who expressed > their > thoughts about your frequent sales in the context of the rather > serious > situation you describe below and your wonderful acts of kindness to > help the > family you describe? > > Would it not have been better to take the high road and just thank the > people who purchased items from you and let them know that the money > went > for a good cause? > > I purchased an item from you, so as you say, I helped out that > family. But > I also expressed my thoughts about the frequent sales in a very > constructive > way. > > So I guess I am the recipient of both your comments - your thanks > for my > buying something from you, and your "I don't give a "___" what you > think for > my thoughts. > > Well you know, the next time I see one of your sales, I think I will > pass > and make a donation to the American Cancer Society. In fact, > perhaps you > can tell the list members how to make a donation to the family > directly, or > to a charity that can get the money to them. > > So I am very happy that the money from your sales went to a good > cause - > some of my money included. > > But as one of your customers, I am really offended by your remarks. > > Mark Grossman > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "michael cottingham" > To: > Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 12:55 AM > Subject: [meteorite-list] IF you want to enjoy up to 50% off you > will haveto > join my ebay store list. > > >> Hello, >> >> I just got back from a quick trip to Tucson, mostly I was working at >> two Hospitals with friends of mine and had very little time for the >> show. >> >> I want to tell you about my "many sales" these last 6 months, >> especially the last 3 months. I have been working with a family-a >> mother and son who have a serious medical crisis in their life. The >> son has terminal cancer throughout his body, but especially in the >> brain. I have been helping them out with expenses. The boy is 7 years >> old. She is a single mom with a 7 year old boy who is dying. They are >> not relatives, but just well loved members in our community. >> >> So, because of my relentless sales-I have raised about $5,000.00 for >> this family and for those of you who have purchased from me thanks. >> On >> the other hand those of you who have whined and cried like babies >> because of the extra sale posts-I really don't care what you think. >> Sorry. >> >> Anyway, if you want to enjoy a upcoming - 50% off on select items in >> my ebay store- you will have to sign up by going through my home page >> and sign up for the newsletter thing on the bottom left. The sale >> will >> be in the near future. IT WILL NOT APPEAR ON THE MET-LIST. Money >> from this 50% off sale will go to help this boy and his mother. >> >> http://stores.ebay.com/voyage-botanica-natural-history >> >> >> Thanks and Best Wishes >> >> Michael >> >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > From rlenssen at planet.nl Mon Feb 2 13:17:27 2009 From: rlenssen at planet.nl (Rob Lenssen) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 19:17:27 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] green spot in chondrite References: Message-ID: Many thanks to all who replied to my question about "the green spot". This is The List at it's best! I learned a lot about green colors in crystals. In an attempt to answer the question marks, with respect to the glassy fusion crust, that was also visible in the photograph: I think it is a kind of melt rim, formed due to the aerodynamic shape of the stone. This picture shows the side with the black glassy stripe: http://home.planet.nl/~rlenssen/1200g.jpg An end cut - also going through the stripe - showed one homogeneous chondritic texture all over the surface area. Regards, Rob Lenssen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob Lenssen" To: Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 8:48 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] green spot in chondrite > Hi List, > > I found a green crystal (?) peeping out of a newly received 1200g > chondrite: > http://home.planet.nl/~rlenssen/green_spot_in_chondrite.jpg > > Can anybody explain to me what I am seeing here? Width of view is > approximately 20 mm. > > Also it the picture, a band of achondrite like fusion crust (100mm long, > 5-10mm wide). I'm sure it is a chondrite though. > > Best regards, > Rob Lenssen > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr Mon Feb 2 13:22:00 2009 From: Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr (Zelimir Gabelica) Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2009 19:22:00 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] More on green spots in stoneys In-Reply-To: References: <5.0.2.1.2.20090202095139.03171310@pop.univ-mulhouse.fr> <5.0.2.1.2.20090202095139.03171310@pop.univ-mulhouse.fr> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20090202191140.029dfea8@pop.univ-mulhouse.fr> Yes, Tracy, you are right. The name "mawsitsit" may well originate from the Burmese locality "Tawmaw" where kosmochlor (jadeite) is being found. It seems to be only known as (macroscopically) massive. Btw: yes, this post is still fairly meteorite-related. Indeed, Tucson show (perhaps along with Munich and, to a lesser extent, Ste Marie) is THE place where you could find in abundance all kind of meteorites and minerals that are composing them. Collecting both can also be a nice way to diversify and make your meteorite collection original.... Zelimir (still waiting for a host site for my Belle Plaine green inclusion pics, in case of interest) A 17:50 02/02/2009 +0000, tracy latimer a ?crit : >My curiosity was piqued with a hazy memory, and I went online searching >for pictures of 'kosmochlor'. Now I remember where I had heard the term >before; it's a variant of jadeite, often found in small quantities around >the same deposits as what is known to jewelers as 'jade', but harder >because of the fibrous composition. In the jewelry trade, it's often >called 'mawsitsit', and is treated the same way as jade. At Tucson, I >don't doubt that anyone who wants can find massive pieces of it, either >raw or finished, if you want a comparison sample. > >Tracy Latimer > >---------------------------------------- > > Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 11:50:49 +0100 > > To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com; bernd.pauli at paulinet.de > > From: Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr > > Subject: [meteorite-list] More on green spots in stoneys > > > > > > Still considering the pyroxene family, an interesting pyroxene candidate > > that would readily involve green color would be Kosmochlor, thus > NaCr3+Si2O6. > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Windows Live?: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect. >http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_allup_explore_012009 >______________________________________________ >http://www.meteoritecentral.com >Meteorite-list mailing list >Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Universit? de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 From markig at westnet.com Mon Feb 2 14:20:30 2009 From: markig at westnet.com (Mark Grossman) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 14:20:30 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] IF you want to enjoy up to 50% off you will haveto join my ebay store list. References: <004201c9855b$d7867080$6501a8c0@QED> Message-ID: <001101c9856b$505ff2b0$6501a8c0@QED> OK Michael. No offense taken. And I am very happy with the two items that I purchased from you - a Cape of Good Hope sample and a Weston sample - regardless of sales or not. So, best wishes in your efforts to help the family in need. Mark Grossman ----- Original Message ----- From: "michael cottingham" To: "Mark Grossman" Cc: Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 12:54 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] IF you want to enjoy up to 50% off you will haveto join my ebay store list. > Hello, > > Actually don't take offense-my comments were not meant for you. I will > not ask the list for donations-that was never my intention. In fact I > would of never mentioned any of this at all, except for the cowardly, > whining of some people. I mean I have seen it for years and years now > on this list- the "email courage" some people have is not that same > they would have if they were face to face. > > Mostly, I do not see any reason to ask the list for donations. I am > meteorite rich and it is easier for me to just sell some of my pieces > and give the money directly. I thought it would be nice of me to > explain to some of the folks on the list why my posts have been > relentless lately. I have been doing this for many months now and not > once have a mentioned any of this. > > Some of your comments are valid and others I might argue with-that is > ok. Don't take offense because nothing here was intended for you in > any negative way. Your emails are reasonable-others on this list are > not-they are petty and bored emails. I for one would never hesitate to > tell them this to their face, but frankly this is a waste of time for > all... > > Best Wishes > > Michael > On Feb 2, 2009, at 10:29 AM, Mark Grossman wrote: > > > Was it really necessary to take a swipe at the people who expressed > > their > > thoughts about your frequent sales in the context of the rather > > serious > > situation you describe below and your wonderful acts of kindness to > > help the > > family you describe? > > > > Would it not have been better to take the high road and just thank the > > people who purchased items from you and let them know that the money > > went > > for a good cause? > > > > I purchased an item from you, so as you say, I helped out that > > family. But > > I also expressed my thoughts about the frequent sales in a very > > constructive > > way. > > > > So I guess I am the recipient of both your comments - your thanks > > for my > > buying something from you, and your "I don't give a "___" what you > > think for > > my thoughts. > > > > Well you know, the next time I see one of your sales, I think I will > > pass > > and make a donation to the American Cancer Society. In fact, > > perhaps you > > can tell the list members how to make a donation to the family > > directly, or > > to a charity that can get the money to them. > > > > So I am very happy that the money from your sales went to a good > > cause - > > some of my money included. > > > > But as one of your customers, I am really offended by your remarks. > > > > Mark Grossman > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "michael cottingham" > > To: > > Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 12:55 AM > > Subject: [meteorite-list] IF you want to enjoy up to 50% off you > > will haveto > > join my ebay store list. > > > > > >> Hello, > >> > >> I just got back from a quick trip to Tucson, mostly I was working at > >> two Hospitals with friends of mine and had very little time for the > >> show. > >> > >> I want to tell you about my "many sales" these last 6 months, > >> especially the last 3 months. I have been working with a family-a > >> mother and son who have a serious medical crisis in their life. The > >> son has terminal cancer throughout his body, but especially in the > >> brain. I have been helping them out with expenses. The boy is 7 years > >> old. She is a single mom with a 7 year old boy who is dying. They are > >> not relatives, but just well loved members in our community. > >> > >> So, because of my relentless sales-I have raised about $5,000.00 for > >> this family and for those of you who have purchased from me thanks. > >> On > >> the other hand those of you who have whined and cried like babies > >> because of the extra sale posts-I really don't care what you think. > >> Sorry. > >> > >> Anyway, if you want to enjoy a upcoming - 50% off on select items in > >> my ebay store- you will have to sign up by going through my home page > >> and sign up for the newsletter thing on the bottom left. The sale > >> will > >> be in the near future. IT WILL NOT APPEAR ON THE MET-LIST. Money > >> from this 50% off sale will go to help this boy and his mother. > >> > >> http://stores.ebay.com/voyage-botanica-natural-history > >> > >> > >> Thanks and Best Wishes > >> > >> Michael > >> > >> > >> > >> ______________________________________________ > >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com > >> Meteorite-list mailing list > >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > >> > > > From ensoramanda at ntlworld.com Mon Feb 2 15:44:42 2009 From: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com (ensoramanda) Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2009 20:44:42 +0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] Reasons to go to Tucson In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49875B3A.3080606@ntlworld.com> Now I'm really regretting going to Tucson....brrrrrrr...took me nearly 2 hours to drive 10 miles today...but at least I made it home. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7865378.stm Graham Ensor ,UK Arizona Keith wrote: > Hello List > > Here are a few reasons to go to Tucson. > > The weather > http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/Tucson2009w1d5a284.jpg > > Best of all, seeing friends > Al & Hans > http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/Tucson2009w1d5219.jpg > Luc & Dima > http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/Tucson2009w1d5a249.jpg > Bruno > http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/Tucson2009w1d5a262.jpg > Moritz > http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/Tucson2009w1d5a367.jpg > I'll let Mike Explain this one. > http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/Tucsonw1d5a2009405.jpg > > Hope you enjoy. > Keith > Chandler AZ > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > >Internal Virus Database is out of date. >Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.10.12/1910 - Release Date: 22/01/2009 18:28 > > > From freewu2000 at yahoo.com Mon Feb 2 16:06:00 2009 From: freewu2000 at yahoo.com (Howard Wu) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 13:06:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Reasons to go to Tucson In-Reply-To: <49875B3A.3080606@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <597592.8183.qm@web52201.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Maybe with the new "economic stimulus plan" they can finnally finish up all that roadwork downtown. --- On Mon, 2/2/09, ensoramanda wrote: > Now I'm really regretting going to > Tucson....brrrrrrr...took me nearly 2 > hours to drive 10 miles today...but at least I made it > home. > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7865378.stm > > Graham Ensor ,UK > From meteoritefinder at gmail.com Mon Feb 2 16:38:56 2009 From: meteoritefinder at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 14:38:56 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Reasons to go to Tucson In-Reply-To: <597592.8183.qm@web52201.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <49875B3A.3080606@ntlworld.com> <597592.8183.qm@web52201.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <468bf6050902021338m2eda58ccr815dbdacf1b44797@mail.gmail.com> Hi All while in Tucson I heard From a police officer that is was supposed to be finished next December in time for the 2010 Show. On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 2:06 PM, Howard Wu wrote: > > Maybe with the new "economic stimulus plan" they can finnally finish up all that roadwork downtown. > > --- On Mon, 2/2/09, ensoramanda wrote: >> Now I'm really regretting going to >> Tucson....brrrrrrr...took me nearly 2 >> hours to drive 10 miles today...but at least I made it >> home. >> >> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7865378.stm >> >> Graham Ensor ,UK >> > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- Mike Miller 230 Greenway Dr. Kingman Az 86401 www.meteoritefinder.com 928-753-6825 From azizhabibi at yahoo.com Mon Feb 2 17:11:39 2009 From: azizhabibi at yahoo.com (habibi abdelaziz) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 14:11:39 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] the tucson show emerald/ hans koser room Message-ID: <506630.47097.qm@web62008.mail.re1.yahoo.com> hello list, the biggest achondrite diogenite the taoudinid, make it to tucson today after a week hold in NY customs , i think they was impressed or so? , anyway it's safely arrived at hans koser room with mohamed sbai, so hurry up to see this beauty , i was told right now by phone , the first guy that saw it, almost fall over, i think this will be the most amazing meteorite of the show, the biggest from africa achondrite and be sur to look with binocular inside the crystalisation is wonderfull , and it's not paired to any other diogenite and some scientist said it's unique and other said unusual; give me news all the best aziz habibi here is the classification of this meteorite. Proposed Name Taoudeni NWA Geographic Coordinates : N 22?47.5? W3?58.0? City, County, province/state and Country : Taoudeni, (Tombouctou),Mali. Find : December 2007 Major classification (group)4 : Diogenite History: A Moroccan meteorite hunter (Dhamen Ouled Ali) looking for pieces of Erg Chech fall , found by chance this 23 kg single stone, 15 km North of the Taoudeni salines. Physical characteristics: One single stone, with patches of fusion crust (5 to 10 % approximately). TKW 24,370 g. log ??= 2.8. Petrography: A. Jambon, O. Boudouma, D. Badia ,UPVI. Study on one polished section by EMPA, SEM. Cumulate texture of largely dominant orthopyroxene, with minor amounts of poikilitally enclosed olivine and chromite/pyrrhotite. Interstitial plagioclase and chromite. Rare silica and kamacite (mostly weathered) . A few clusters of subhedrehal olivine appear to be irregularly distributed (according to photographs of the whole stone). Millimetric crystals of gem quality. Mode from a BSE image on a polished section of about 2 cm2: Orthopyroxene = 87 %, Olivine = 7 %, Chromite = 1.6 %, Plagioclase = 3 %. Mineral compositions and geochemistry: Abundant lo-Ca Pyroxene : En69Fs26Wo4; Cr2O3 = 0.7%; FeO/MnO = 31. Olivine Fa34; Cr2O3 = 0.03%, CaO = 0.08 %; FeO/MnO = 51. Minor hi-Ca Pyroxene: En45Fs13Wo42. Plagioclase An87Ab12Or1. Chromite : Mg# = 0.24; Cr/(Cr+Al) = 0.69. Kamacite with Ni = 12%. Classification: Diogenite. Weathering : moderate. No shock features. Type specimens: A specimen of 31 g and one polished section are on deposit at UPVI. A. Habibi (Erfoud) holds the main mass. habibi aziz box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco phone. 21235576145 fax.21235576170 From lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu Mon Feb 2 19:24:52 2009 From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu (lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 17:24:52 -0700 (MST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Reasons to go to Tucson In-Reply-To: <468bf6050902021338m2eda58ccr815dbdacf1b44797@mail.gmail.com> References: <49875B3A.3080606@ntlworld.com> <597592.8183.qm@web52201.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <468bf6050902021338m2eda58ccr815dbdacf1b44797@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <50070.71.226.60.25.1233620692.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> The last I heard was that they are actually AHEAD of schedule! So next year, all the construction should be done. Larry On Mon, February 2, 2009 2:38 pm, Mike Miller wrote: > Hi All while in Tucson I heard From a police officer that is was > supposed to be finished next December in time for the 2010 Show. > > On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 2:06 PM, Howard Wu wrote: > >> >> Maybe with the new "economic stimulus plan" they can finnally finish up >> all that roadwork downtown. >> >> --- On Mon, 2/2/09, ensoramanda wrote: >> >>> Now I'm really regretting going to >>> Tucson....brrrrrrr...took me nearly 2 >>> hours to drive 10 miles today...but at least I made it home. >>> >>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7865378.stm >>> >>> >>> Graham Ensor ,UK >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> > > > > -- > Mike Miller 230 Greenway Dr. Kingman Az 86401 > www.meteoritefinder.com 928-753-6825 > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From bobl at peaktopeak.com Mon Feb 2 20:48:09 2009 From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 18:48:09 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Encyclopedia of meteorites website has a new owner In-Reply-To: <228747.4996.qm@web23004.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090203014750.D3EC410535@mailwash5.pair.com> Congrats to the IMCA and Pierre-Marie! Regards, Bob -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Pel? Pierre-Marie Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 1:19 AM To: MeteoriteList Subject: [meteorite-list] Encyclopedia of meteorites website has a new owner Hello to the List, I'm proud to announce the winner of the Encyclopedia-of-meteorites website. The winner is... The IMCA (International Meteorite Collectors Association) I'm sure the IMCA will do a great job on the encyclopedia. Sorry for the other bidders. Pierre-Marie Pele ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From rsvp321 at hotmail.com Mon Feb 2 20:54:03 2009 From: rsvp321 at hotmail.com (Pete Pete) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 20:54:03 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Google Earth version 5 Message-ID: Greetings, all, There is a new version of Google Earth just out with some amazing improvements and extra features now. Everything from oceanography to astronomy. http://earth.google.com/ http://earth.google.com/ Cheers, Pete _________________________________________________________________ Twice the fun?Share photos while you chat with Windows Live Messenger. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/messenger.aspx From michael at spacerocksinc.com Mon Feb 2 22:40:24 2009 From: michael at spacerocksinc.com (Michael Johnson) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 19:40:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - February 3, 2009 Message-ID: <26171766.472931233632424422.JavaMail.root@mbs5.homesteadmail.com> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/February_3_2009.html From grf2 at verizon.net Mon Feb 2 22:13:41 2009 From: grf2 at verizon.net (Jerry Flaherty) Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2009 22:13:41 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Google Earth version 5 References: Message-ID: Thanks for the link, Pete. I'd just read about it this AM. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete Pete" To: "meteoritelist meteoritelist" Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 8:54 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Google Earth version 5 Greetings, all, There is a new version of Google Earth just out with some amazing improvements and extra features now. Everything from oceanography to astronomy. http://earth.google.com/ http://earth.google.com/ Cheers, Pete _________________________________________________________________ Twice the fun?Share photos while you chat with Windows Live Messenger. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/messenger.aspx ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From psc2410xi at yahoo.com Mon Feb 2 23:18:17 2009 From: psc2410xi at yahoo.com (Don Rawlings) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 20:18:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Reasons to go to Tucson Message-ID: <510965.92653.qm@web59304.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Yeah, With Bush the money would have been spent on bombs to send to Iraq or some other place we have no business turning into killing fields. Don Rawlings --- On Mon, 2/2/09, Howard Wu wrote: From: Howard Wu Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Reasons to go to Tucson To: "Arizona Keith" , "ensoramanda" Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Date: Monday, February 2, 2009, 4:06 PM Maybe with the new "economic stimulus plan" they can finnally finish up all that roadwork downtown. --- On Mon, 2/2/09, ensoramanda wrote: > Now I'm really regretting going to > Tucson....brrrrrrr...took me nearly 2 > hours to drive 10 miles today...but at least I made it > home. > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7865378.stm > > Graham Ensor ,UK > ? ? ? ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From geeg48 at msn.com Tue Feb 3 01:04:25 2009 From: geeg48 at msn.com (GREG LINDH) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 23:04:25 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Reasons to go to Tucson References: <510965.92653.qm@web59304.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: This List is truly hopeless. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Rawlings" To: Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 9:18 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Reasons to go to Tucson Yeah, With Bush the money would have been spent on bombs to send to Iraq or some other place we have no business turning into killing fields. Don Rawlings --- On Mon, 2/2/09, Howard Wu wrote: From: Howard Wu Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Reasons to go to Tucson To: "Arizona Keith" , "ensoramanda" Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Date: Monday, February 2, 2009, 4:06 PM Maybe with the new "economic stimulus plan" they can finnally finish up all that roadwork downtown. --- On Mon, 2/2/09, ensoramanda wrote: > Now I'm really regretting going to > Tucson....brrrrrrr...took me nearly 2 > hours to drive 10 miles today...but at least I made it > home. > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7865378.stm > > Graham Ensor ,UK > ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr Tue Feb 3 01:53:50 2009 From: Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr (Zelimir Gabelica) Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2009 07:53:50 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Belle Plaine green spot pics Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20090203074113.02b21ea8@pop.univ-mulhouse.fr> Haili, Rob Lenssen, " the owner of the 1200 g chondrite with the green crystal" was the first to offer to host the "green spot" pics I promised to send (ref.: my yesterday post). Thanks very much Rob! Enjoy the pictures here: http://home.planet.nl/~rlenssen/BellePlaine9492_R1.jpg http://home.planet.nl/~rlenssen/BellePlaine9496_R1.jpg http://home.planet.nl/~rlenssen/BellePlaine9501_R1.jpg http://home.planet.nl/~rlenssen/green resinous massive kosmochlor, Myanmar.jpg http://home.planet.nl/~rlenssen/Natalyite Slyudyanka.jpg Thanks also to Norbert Classen and Dirk Ross whose offers followed Rob's by a few minutes. And a warm "hailoo" to Roger Warin for his artistic and talented faculties... Zelimir Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Universit? de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 From Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr Tue Feb 3 03:00:17 2009 From: Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr (Zelimir Gabelica) Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2009 09:00:17 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Belle Plaine green spot pics Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20090203090010.029c2e80@pop.univ-mulhouse.fr> Haili, Rob Lenssen, " the owner of the 1200 g chondrite with the green crystal" was the first to offer to host the "green spot" pics I promised to send (ref.: my yesterday post). Thanks very much Rob! Enjoy the pictures here: http://home.planet.nl/~rlenssen/BellePlaine9492_R1.jpg http://home.planet.nl/~rlenssen/BellePlaine9496_R1.jpg http://home.planet.nl/~rlenssen/BellePlaine9501_R1.jpg http://home.planet.nl/~rlenssen/green resinous massive kosmochlor, Myanmar.jpg http://home.planet.nl/~rlenssen/Natalyite Slyudyanka.jpg Thanks also to Norbert Classen and Dirk Ross whose offers followed Rob's by a few minutes. And a warm "hailoo" to Roger Warin for his artistic and talented faculties... Zelimir Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Universit? de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 From rsvp321 at hotmail.com Tue Feb 3 04:40:53 2009 From: rsvp321 at hotmail.com (Pete Pete) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 04:40:53 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Reasons to go to Tucson In-Reply-To: References: <510965.92653.qm@web59304.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Not the List, just some people who never seem to contribute positive to the List. See: INTERNET TROLL http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll I feel a nickname coming coming for someone... ---------------------------------------- > From: geeg48 at msn.com > To: psc2410xi at yahoo.com > Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 23:04:25 -0700 > CC: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Reasons to go to Tucson > > > This List is truly hopeless. > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Don Rawlings" > To: > Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 9:18 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Reasons to go to Tucson > > > Yeah, With Bush the money would have been spent on bombs to send to Iraq or > some other place we have no business turning into killing fields. > > Don Rawlings > > --- On Mon, 2/2/09, Howard Wu wrote: > > > From: Howard Wu > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Reasons to go to Tucson > To: "Arizona Keith" , "ensoramanda" > > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Monday, February 2, 2009, 4:06 PM > > > > Maybe with the new "economic stimulus plan" they can finnally finish up all > that roadwork downtown. > > --- On Mon, 2/2/09, ensoramanda wrote: >> Now I'm really regretting going to >> Tucson....brrrrrrr...took me nearly 2 >> hours to drive 10 miles today...but at least I made it >> home. >> >> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7865378.stm >> >> Graham Ensor ,UK >> > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _________________________________________________________________ So many new options, so little time. Windows Live Messenger. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/messenger.aspx From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Tue Feb 3 05:31:46 2009 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 02:31:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Green spot in chondrite In-Reply-To: <5530247C46EA41628F57289CDC4A53DC@JeffPC> Message-ID: <622115.87513.qm@web55204.mail.re4.yahoo.com> I agree the crust resembles HED components. This, along with the large green clast resembling diogenite material, is suggestive of an chondritic and achondritic HED breccia as improbable as that may seem. There may be an example somewhere but I can't recall an example ever being reported. Elton --- On Mon, 2/2/09, Jeff Kuyken wrote: > From: Jeff Kuyken > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Green spot in chondrite > To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, bernd.pauli at paulinet.de > Date: Monday, February 2, 2009, 3:19 AM > Hi Bernd and Rob, > > That would be my first guess too Bernd. But the crust has > me stumped. I > can't work out if it's a weathering effect or > different material underneath. > It does look similar to eucritic fusion crust even down to > the cracking > though. Weird! > > Cheers, > > Jeff > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 7:02 AM > Subject: [meteorite-list] Green spot in chondrite > > > > Hello Rob and List, > > > > > http://home.planet.nl/~rlenssen/green_spot_in_chondrite.jpg > > > > "Can anybody explain to me what I am seeing > here?" > > > > This may be a magnesium-rich orthopyroxene crystal > => hypersthene > > (Mg,Fe)SiO3 > > > > What do others think? > > > > Best, > > > > Bernd > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From zneutronz at aol.com Tue Feb 3 05:41:46 2009 From: zneutronz at aol.com (zneutronz at aol.com) Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2009 05:41:46 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] lunar offer Message-ID: <8CB5403257BE13E-630-1CE6@WEBMAIL-MY35.sysops.aol.com> hola list ! still avaiable : NWA4483, Lunar , granulitic, End cut, 5.612g NWA4483, Lunar , granulitic, Part Slice, 2.559g for only 570$/g !! thanks and regards, oliver ________________________________________________________________________ AOL eMail auf Ihrem Handy! Ab sofort k?nnen Sie auch unterwegs Ihre AOL email abrufen. Registrieren Sie sich jetzt kostenlos. From ebay at biol.uw.edu.pl Tue Feb 3 06:30:11 2009 From: ebay at biol.uw.edu.pl (www.meteoritica.eu) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 12:30:11 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] [AD] Oriented chondrites References: <49857ee7b11f56.22021155@wp.pl> Message-ID: <00a101c985f2$c7cdc160$9301a8c0@zeus> Ha Beautiful specimens !! Woreczko www.meteoritica.eu ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tomasz Jakubowski" To: "meteorite-list" Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 11:52 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] [AD] Oriented chondrites > Dear List Members, > > I have beautiful oriented, fresh chondrites from Sahara desert. > Both of specimen are full oriented, with radial flow lines, rollover > lips and fresh fusion cust. > > First of them have 485 grams. Amazing orientation!! I purchased this > specimen 2 years ago in Rissani. > http://picasaweb.google.pl/illaenus/NWAOriented485Grams# > > Second piece have 435 grams : > http://picasaweb.google.pl/illaenus/NWAOriented435G# > > > Offers and questions please send direct to - > illaenus at gmail.com > > > Kind Regards > Tomasz Jakubowski > IMCA #2321 > > > -- > Free Tibet > > ---------------------------------------------------- > Bestseller roku 2008 w Empiku! > Przeczytaj "Gr? anio?a" Carlosa Ruiz Zafona > http://klik.wp.pl/?adr=http%3A%2F%2Fcorto.www.wp.pl%2Fas%2Fgraaniola.html&sid=630 > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > -- > This email was Anti Virus checked by Astaro Security Gateway. > > __________ NOD32 Informacje 3817 (20090202) __________ > > Wiadomosc zostala sprawdzona przez System Antywirusowy NOD32 > http://www.nod32.com lub http://www.nod32.pl > > From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com Tue Feb 3 09:43:01 2009 From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 06:43:01 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] pre-tucson notes Message-ID: <71675.85690.qm@web57806.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi all.I am going through withdrawals just waiting to go to Tuscon.If I had known I would not be working now,I would have gone for a week.Oh well,we can't predict the future.I do know that I have 3 meteorites?waiting for me when I get there.And one of them is the king of the pallasites.I want to publicly thank Bob Evans for me keeping me in the loop about what has been going on out there.Prices per gram,what's available,who's there,etc.It means alot to me.Also a thanks to bob c. for putting me up again this year.Like the last few years I will give a daily account of my days happenings.It seems the real Tucson does not start till right before the weekend.I will also be taking alot of pictures for those who cannot be there.I will have 30 or 40 to see on my website.And for those who cannot make it this year,2010 is 1 year away.Looking forward to seeing everyone old and new.Have a great day!!!!!!! ? Steve R.Arnold,Chicago! http://chicagometeorites.net/ From eric at meteoritewatch.com Tue Feb 3 12:00:56 2009 From: eric at meteoritewatch.com (Eric Wichman) Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2009 09:00:56 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] List members wanted... Back From Tucson! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49887848.7010007@meteoritewatch.com> Back from Tucson! Hi all... For those of you who are not on my mailing list, I have something special. Please sign up here: http://www.meteoritesusa.com/newsletter/ This is not an AD but a notice that I will be emailing a private sale to my list members only. If you're not on my list you will miss out. TRUST ME ON THIS ONE! Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA 904-236-5394 From valparint at aol.com Tue Feb 3 13:15:06 2009 From: valparint at aol.com (valparint at aol.com) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 11:15:06 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Reasons to go to Tucson Message-ID: This is why we can't all just get along. There's always some knucklehead who just can't contain himself. Paul Swartz >Yeah, With Bush the money would have been spent on bombs to send >to Iraq or some other place we have no business turning into killing >fields. >Don Rawlings From gldfinder at yahoo.com Tue Feb 3 13:27:48 2009 From: gldfinder at yahoo.com (Larry Sloan) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 10:27:48 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] ADD-New Arizona Meteorite Message-ID: <116016.35762.qm@web39201.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi All, A new Arizona meteorite, Big Horn Mountains may be viewed at KD Meteorites Room 103 Inn Suites. This orientated 65 gram meteorite is classified H4 S2 W2/4. The area where it was been found has been hunted extensively, with no additional pieces being unearthed. We are open to offers on on this new meteorite. Larry Sloan From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Tue Feb 3 13:29:00 2009 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 19:29:00 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] pre-tucson notes In-Reply-To: <71675.85690.qm@web57806.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <71675.85690.qm@web57806.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <005001c9862d$4e3423e0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> What? There are still dealers, who let Bob Evans in their rooms? Don't they have any self-respect..... >I will give a daily account of my days happenings Kings are like money in the bank! 2008 was 1 year away. Like money in the bank! Just kidding. Seriously, pictures are always highly appreciated and welcome! Apropos... King or Beggar - guesses? http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/specials/nwa5474-3.656g.jpg Martin -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von steve arnold Gesendet: Dienstag, 3. Februar 2009 15:43 An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: [meteorite-list] pre-tucson notes Hi all.I am going through withdrawals just waiting to go to Tuscon.If I had known I would not be working now,I would have gone for a week.Oh well,we can't predict the future.I do know that I have 3 meteorites?waiting for me when I get there.And one of them is the king of the pallasites.I want to publicly thank Bob Evans for me keeping me in the loop about what has been going on out there.Prices per gram,what's available,who's there,etc.It means alot to me.Also a thanks to bob c. for putting me up again this year.Like the last few years I will give a daily account of my days happenings.It seems the real Tucson does not start till right before the weekend.I will also be taking alot of pictures for those who cannot be there.I will have 30 or 40 to see on my website.And for those who cannot make it this year,2010 is 1 year away.Looking forward to seeing everyone old and new.Have a great day!!!!!!! ? Steve R.Arnold,Chicago! http://chicagometeorites.net/ ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From gmhupe at htn.net Tue Feb 3 18:08:26 2009 From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 18:08:26 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Incomparable NWA 5480 - AD Message-ID: <60A75F566BB44E85BB4CC789215A520D@Gregor> Dear List Members, In an attempt to find homes for the last remaining specimens of NWA 5480, the "Incomparable Olivine Diogenite", I cut down the last two large end cuts to accommodate collectors who would like a smaller specimen. If you are interested, please contact me Off List. I also have about 40 eBay auctions ending tomorrow, Wednesday, February 4th, more great deals will be had this week!! The last 3 LARGE complete slices of NWA 5480: 168.3g cs http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/large/dsc00005.jpg 137g cs http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/large/dsc00007.jpg 127g cs http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/large/dsc00008.jpg First Time Available Specimens from the unsold end cuts I cut down smaller (16 pieces): 87.9g ec http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/EndCutPrepared/dsc00001.jpg 37.7g ps http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/EndCutPrepared/dsc00003.jpg 34.2g ec http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/EndCutPrepared/dsc00004.jpg 26.1g cs http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/EndCutPrepared/dsc00005.jpg 20.3g ps http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/EndCutPrepared/dsc00006.jpg 15.3g ec http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/EndCutPrepared/dsc00007.jpg 13.4g ps http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/EndCutPrepared/dsc00008.jpg 10.3g ps http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/EndCutPrepared/dsc00009.jpg 10.2g ps http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/EndCutPrepared/dsc00010.jpg 10.1g ps http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/EndCutPrepared/dsc00011.jpg 9.4g ps http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/EndCutPrepared/dsc00012.jpg 9.2g ps http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/EndCutPrepared/dsc00013.jpg 9g ps http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/EndCutPrepared/dsc00014.jpg 8.3g ec http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/EndCutPrepared/dsc00015.jpg 7.7g ps http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/EndCutPrepared/dsc00016.jpg 7.3g ps http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/EndCutPrepared/dsc00017.jpg cs - complete slice ps - part slice ec - end cut Pricing: Museum Quality - Large slices (Only 3 Left!) - $16.00/g Small slices and end cuts - $20.00/g If you are interested in any of the above specimens, please email me directly. eBay Notice: Tomorrow (Wednesday, February 4th), I have about 40 auctions ending with some nicely sized pieces, all started at 99 cents. More great deals will be had this week!! Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault Best regards, and "Thank You" for considering the above and for bidding on my auction! Greg ==================== Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmhupe at htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 ==================== Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault From bobadebt at ec.rr.com Tue Feb 3 18:41:24 2009 From: bobadebt at ec.rr.com (David & Kitt Deyarmin) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 18:41:24 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Reasons to go to Tucson Message-ID: <6D1886A8C2D043A9B4469FB026F2BB56@David> Not the whole list, just a few members ______________________________________________________________ GREG LINDH geeg48 at msn.com Tue Feb 3 01:04:25 EST 2009 Previous message: [meteorite-list] Reasons to go to Tucson Next message: [meteorite-list] Reasons to go to Tucson Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] This List is truly hopeless. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Rawlings" To: Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 9:18 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Reasons to go to Tucson Yeah, With Bush the money would have been spent on bombs to send to Iraq or some other place we have no business turning into killing fields. Don Rawlings --- On Mon, 2/2/09, Howard Wu wrote: From: Howard Wu Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Reasons to go to Tucson To: "Arizona Keith" , "ensoramanda" Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Date: Monday, February 2, 2009, 4:06 PM Maybe with the new "economic stimulus plan" they can finnally finish up all that roadwork downtown. --- On Mon, 2/2/09, ensoramanda wrote: > Now I'm really regretting going to > Tucson....brrrrrrr...took me nearly 2 > hours to drive 10 miles today...but at least I made it > home. > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7865378.stm > > Graham Ensor ,UK > From qwalkra at mailbox.ezadsl.net.au Tue Feb 3 21:07:03 2009 From: qwalkra at mailbox.ezadsl.net.au (Bob WALKER) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 12:07:03 +1000 Subject: [meteorite-list] QMIG update Message-ID: <2CBD1C859D5B4A5582399385C0C6793D@your0a700f0aaf> Listoids QMIG update http://www.qmig.org New pix of Hamilton and Naryilco A couple of more artikles... Lots happening slowly very slowly as background tasks Stay tuned for some awesome accessions To those of you lucky enuf to be suffering from Tucson fever - enjoy and may all good things happen for you and yours Cheers From freewu2000 at yahoo.com Tue Feb 3 21:08:17 2009 From: freewu2000 at yahoo.com (Howard Wu) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 18:08:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Reasons to go to Tucson In-Reply-To: <6D1886A8C2D043A9B4469FB026F2BB56@David> Message-ID: <567591.78766.qm@web52207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Gee, I tried to say on topic. That Tucson highway construction has been a pain for years getting around the show and keeps people away. Sure wish they'd finish it up. There were dealers I missed as "I couldn't get there from here." That would be good for Tucson business! Your Blood auction state tax dollars help pay for this. I got a small 0.5g Iraq chondrite from Bob Eliot. I forgot where exactly. Howard --- On Tue, 2/3/09, David & Kitt Deyarmin wrote: > From: David & Kitt Deyarmin > Subject: [meteorite-list] Reasons to go to Tucson > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Tuesday, February 3, 2009, 3:41 PM > Not the whole list, just a few members > > > ______________________________________________________________ > > > GREG LINDH geeg48 at msn.com > Tue Feb 3 01:04:25 EST 2009 > Previous message: [meteorite-list] Reasons to go to Tucson > Next message: [meteorite-list] Reasons to go to Tucson > Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ > author ] > > > > > This List is truly hopeless. > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Don Rawlings" yahoo.com> > To: > Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 9:18 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Reasons to go to Tucson > > > Yeah, With Bush the money would have been spent on bombs to > send to Iraq or > some other place we have no business turning into killing > fields. > > Don Rawlings > > --- On Mon, 2/2/09, Howard Wu yahoo.com> wrote: > > > From: Howard Wu > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Reasons to go to Tucson > To: "Arizona Keith" cox.net>, "ensoramanda" > > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Monday, February 2, 2009, 4:06 PM > > > > Maybe with the new "economic stimulus plan" they > can finnally finish up all > that roadwork downtown. > > --- On Mon, 2/2/09, ensoramanda ntlworld.com> wrote: > > > Now I'm really regretting going to > > > Tucson....brrrrrrr...took me nearly 2 > > > hours to drive 10 miles today...but at least I made it > > > home. > > > > > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7865378.stm > > > > > > Graham Ensor ,UK > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From qwalkra at mailbox.ezadsl.net.au Tue Feb 3 21:28:51 2009 From: qwalkra at mailbox.ezadsl.net.au (Bob WALKER) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 12:28:51 +1000 Subject: [meteorite-list] IMCA and the Encyclopedia of Meteorites website Message-ID: <89EFA29A33684D1FA23E57DFE071B388@your0a700f0aaf> Listoids I'm curious when and if IMCA will make any public statement about their now ownership of the Encyclopedia of Meteorites website I'd like to know if it will remain a publically available resource and whether our logons/passwords remain or whether it will revert to IMCA members only or become a pay per view or commercial website to recover costs Undoubtedly there are many of us who have found this resource extremely useful and the search engine facility is awesome Many of us have thanked Pierre in the past by allowing him to use images from our websites - particularly if we have unique images that are otherwise un-obtainable but this permission does not necessarily extend to IMCA I for one may rethink this permission if the Encyclopedia of Meteorites website becomes commercially orientated or publicly limited and as above would wish some public statement about the future aims and objectives I think we always understood the immense time and effort that made it all happen and also wonder if that energy will be renewed with a new focus and upgrade particularly with the available images Cheers From John at Cabassi.net Tue Feb 3 22:04:56 2009 From: John at Cabassi.net (John.L.Cabassi) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 19:04:56 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] IMCA and the Encyclopedia of Meteorites website References: <89EFA29A33684D1FA23E57DFE071B388@your0a700f0aaf> Message-ID: <006501c98675$602dce00$4564fea9@TITAN> G'Day Bob and List Be patient. Time will tell. There's alot going on at the moment with the Tucson show. Cheers John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob WALKER" To: "Meteorite" Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 6:28 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] IMCA and the Encyclopedia of Meteorites website > Listoids > > I'm curious when and if IMCA will make any public statement about their > now ownership of the Encyclopedia of Meteorites website > > I'd like to know if it will remain a publically available resource and > whether our logons/passwords remain or whether it will revert to IMCA > members only or become a pay per view or commercial website to recover > costs > > Undoubtedly there are many of us who have found this resource extremely > useful and the search engine facility is awesome > > Many of us have thanked Pierre in the past by allowing him to use images > from our websites - particularly if we have unique images that are > otherwise un-obtainable but this permission does not necessarily extend to > IMCA > > I for one may rethink this permission if the Encyclopedia of Meteorites > website becomes commercially orientated or publicly limited and as above > would wish some public statement about the future aims and objectives > > I think we always understood the immense time and effort that made it all > happen and also wonder if that energy will be renewed with a new focus and > upgrade particularly with the available images > > Cheers > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From michael at spacerocksinc.com Tue Feb 3 23:22:21 2009 From: michael at spacerocksinc.com (Michael Johnson) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 20:22:21 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - February 4, 2009 Message-ID: <16144104.614661233721341946.JavaMail.root@mbs5.homesteadmail.com> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/February_4_2009.html From ebay at biol.uw.edu.pl Wed Feb 4 04:33:10 2009 From: ebay at biol.uw.edu.pl (www.meteoritica.eu) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 10:33:10 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Google Earth version 5 References: Message-ID: <008101c986ab$99fd3e50$9301a8c0@zeus> Ha The new GE program and new icons of meteorites. I recommend http://www.meteoritica.eu/meteorites/GoogleEarth/Oman_newIcons.kmz http://www.meteoritica.eu/meteorites/GoogleEarth/Libya_newIcons.kmz More here: http://www.meteoritica.eu/meteorites/GoogleEarth/GE-KMZfiles.htm Woreczko ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete Pete" To: "meteoritelist meteoritelist" Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 2:54 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Google Earth version 5 > > Greetings, all, > > There is a new version of Google Earth just out with some amazing improvements and extra features now. > > Everything from oceanography to astronomy. > > http://earth.google.com/ > http://earth.google.com/ > > Cheers, > Pete > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Twice the fun?Share photos while you chat with Windows Live Messenger. > http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/messenger.aspx > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > -- > This email was Anti Virus checked by Astaro Security Gateway. > > __________ NOD32 Informacje 3820 (20090203) __________ > > Wiadomosc zostala sprawdzona przez System Antywirusowy NOD32 > http://www.nod32.com lub http://www.nod32.pl > > From eric at meteoritewatch.com Wed Feb 4 10:40:58 2009 From: eric at meteoritewatch.com (Eric Wichman) Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2009 07:40:58 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] Tektite with metal? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4989B70A.4090905@meteoritewatch.com> Hey all, On my recent adventure to the Tucson show I purchased many meteorites and about 6 kilos of tektites, in the batch of tektites I found an odd piece. Now I'm very familiar with chondrites but know little to nothing about tektites. Can someone please tell me what I'm looking at here. It's an odd piece. It appears to be metal embedded in the tektite in two places. This is the only piece I have that exhibits this inclusion. Is this a natural inclusion that formed after the tektite was formed or is it just something "stuck" in the tektite??? The piece is about 34 grams... http://www.meteoritesusa.com/tektites.htm This is bugging me because I can't find any info on it and I'd like to know if this is normal for a tektite or just some fluke oddity. Regards, Eric From Carsten.Giessler at t-online.de Wed Feb 4 11:33:29 2009 From: Carsten.Giessler at t-online.de (Carsten Giessler) Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2009 17:33:29 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - NWA 5584- New Rumuruti for sale Message-ID: <4989C359.3000608@t-online.de> Dear List, we have a new beautiful R-Chondrite for sale, the provisional number for this rare Rumuruti is NWA 5584. Unlike other Rumuruti's this one is full off nice Chondrules! You will find some slices for sale here: http://www.gi-po.de/meteorit_verkauf_5584%20special.html Many thanks for viewing! Best greetings, Carsten From eric at meteoritewatch.com Wed Feb 4 11:42:22 2009 From: eric at meteoritewatch.com (Eric Wichman) Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2009 08:42:22 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] Tektite with metal? In-Reply-To: References: <4989B70A.4090905@meteoritewatch.com> Message-ID: <4989C56E.9030402@meteoritewatch.com> Sean, Unsure of whether it is metal... it resembles metal, but is not magnetic. I've tried using a small pick to remove it and even a stainless steel wire brush and no luck. It's not soil of any kind. I'll try to get some 10X magnification photos... Eric T. Murray wrote: > Eric - are you sure that is metal? I'm curious to know if a magnet > sticks to it... Most of these that I have seen are compacted > soil/minerals that are attached to the tektite. Kind of like caliche. > > I have a bunch of tektites with those kinds of "inclusions" - but they > are all local material that has just gotten stuck in the weathered > surface of the tektite. I usually leave them in as it is an indicator > of the soil/material where the tektite was found. > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Wichman" > > To: > Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 10:40 AM > Subject: [meteorite-list] Tektite with metal? > > >> Hey all, >> >> On my recent adventure to the Tucson show I purchased many meteorites >> and about 6 kilos of tektites, in the batch of tektites I found an >> odd piece. Now I'm very familiar with chondrites but know little to >> nothing about tektites. Can someone please tell me what I'm looking >> at here. >> >> It's an odd piece. It appears to be metal embedded in the tektite in >> two places. This is the only piece I have that exhibits this >> inclusion. Is this a natural inclusion that formed after the tektite >> was formed or is it just something "stuck" in the tektite??? >> >> The piece is about 34 grams... http://www.meteoritesusa.com/tektites.htm >> >> This is bugging me because I can't find any info on it and I'd like >> to know if this is normal for a tektite or just some fluke oddity. >> >> Regards, >> Eric >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA http://www.meteoritesusa.com 904-236-5394 From eric at meteoritewatch.com Wed Feb 4 12:34:57 2009 From: eric at meteoritewatch.com (Eric Wichman) Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2009 09:34:57 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] Tektite with metal? In-Reply-To: <0127E21024354A79B92047289C1FA0AD@DAN1> References: <4989B70A.4090905@meteoritewatch.com> <0127E21024354A79B92047289C1FA0AD@DAN1> Message-ID: <4989D1C1.4000801@meteoritewatch.com> Dan, It might be. But it looks metallic. It could be a form of pyrite or some other metallic looking mineral. Eric Dan Wray wrote: > Eric, > > I have two or more in my collection that have inclusiions of what > appears to be yellow glass. I know what Sean is refering to. It is > sand stuck in the cracks. These apear to be melted in place. I have > heard no expination for them. > > Dan > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Wichman" > > To: > Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 8:40 AM > Subject: [meteorite-list] Tektite with metal? > > >> Hey all, >> >> On my recent adventure to the Tucson show I purchased many meteorites >> and about 6 kilos of tektites, in the batch of tektites I found an >> odd piece. Now I'm very familiar with chondrites but know little to >> nothing about tektites. Can someone please tell me what I'm looking >> at here. >> >> It's an odd piece. It appears to be metal embedded in the tektite in >> two places. This is the only piece I have that exhibits this >> inclusion. Is this a natural inclusion that formed after the tektite >> was formed or is it just something "stuck" in the tektite??? >> >> The piece is about 34 grams... http://www.meteoritesusa.com/tektites.htm >> >> This is bugging me because I can't find any info on it and I'd like >> to know if this is normal for a tektite or just some fluke oddity. >> >> Regards, >> Eric >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA http://www.meteoritesusa.com 904-236-5394 From eric at meteoritewatch.com Wed Feb 4 12:45:36 2009 From: eric at meteoritewatch.com (Eric Wichman) Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2009 09:45:36 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] Tektite with metal? In-Reply-To: <70baf8d20902040935t6c8792cx5e5a5d4ddda7d423@mail.gmail.com> References: <4989B70A.4090905@meteoritewatch.com> <4989C56E.9030402@meteoritewatch.com> <70baf8d20902040935t6c8792cx5e5a5d4ddda7d423@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4989D440.4030009@meteoritewatch.com> Phil, That's the closest thing I've seen. That might be it. Eric Phil Morgan wrote: > Eric, I believe what your seeing is the same thing (maybe polished > somehow) as what I've heard this referred to as Limonite. Here is an > example. http://www.tektiteinc.com/104grams.html > > I have very similar examples and it is very hard stuff. > > Phil > > On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 9:42 AM, Eric Wichman > wrote: > > Sean, > > Unsure of whether it is metal... it resembles metal, but is not > magnetic. I've tried using a small pick to remove it and even a > stainless steel wire brush and no luck. It's not soil of any kind. > > I'll try to get some 10X magnification photos... > > Eric > > > > > > > > T. Murray wrote: > > Eric - are you sure that is metal? I'm curious to know if a > magnet sticks to it... Most of these that I have seen are > compacted soil/minerals that are attached to the tektite. > Kind of like caliche. > > I have a bunch of tektites with those kinds of "inclusions" - > but they are all local material that has just gotten stuck in > the weathered surface of the tektite. I usually leave them in > as it is an indicator of the soil/material where the tektite > was found. > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Wichman" > > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 10:40 AM > Subject: [meteorite-list] Tektite with metal? > > > > Hey all, > > On my recent adventure to the Tucson show I purchased many > meteorites and about 6 kilos of tektites, in the batch of > tektites I found an odd piece. Now I'm very familiar with > chondrites but know little to nothing about tektites. Can > someone please tell me what I'm looking at here. > > It's an odd piece. It appears to be metal embedded in the > tektite in two places. This is the only piece I have that > exhibits this inclusion. Is this a natural inclusion that > formed after the tektite was formed or is it just > something "stuck" in the tektite??? > > The piece is about 34 grams... > http://www.meteoritesusa.com/tektites.htm > > This is bugging me because I can't find any info on it and > I'd like to know if this is normal for a tektite or just > some fluke oddity. > > Regards, > Eric > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > -- > Regards, > Eric Wichman > Meteorites USA > http://www.meteoritesusa.com > 904-236-5394 > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA http://www.meteoritesusa.com 904-236-5394 From eric at meteoritewatch.com Wed Feb 4 12:35:38 2009 From: eric at meteoritewatch.com (Eric Wichman) Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2009 09:35:38 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] Tektite with metal? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4989D1EA.3000508@meteoritewatch.com> Ted, Thanks for the input... It "looks" metallic, and it's non-magnetic so I doubt it's iron. It's in two places, the inclusion in the tip end of the tektite is darker in color which looks more like corrosion or "tarnish". Using the pick on it did nothing as it is embedded in the glass very securely. Also I don't know how deeply it is embedded. It looks like it formed within the dimple/cavity possibly after the formation of the tektite itself, but I'm not sure. I could send it to you if you'd like to look at it... Regards, Eric P.S. I might also have another stone you would want to take a look at too. Email me off-list and I'll send you photos... Ted Bunch wrote: > Yes, if it is metal, that would be important to science - few indications > of the impactor composition. It could just be a product of the target > melting and it is a piece of melted sulfide or a shiny Fe oxide - can't tell > from the photo. > > Ted Bunch > > > On 2/4/09 8:40 AM, "Eric Wichman" wrote: > > >> Hey all, >> >> On my recent adventure to the Tucson show I purchased many meteorites >> and about 6 kilos of tektites, in the batch of tektites I found an odd >> piece. Now I'm very familiar with chondrites but know little to nothing >> about tektites. Can someone please tell me what I'm looking at here. >> >> It's an odd piece. It appears to be metal embedded in the tektite in two >> places. This is the only piece I have that exhibits this inclusion. Is >> this a natural inclusion that formed after the tektite was formed or is >> it just something "stuck" in the tektite??? >> >> The piece is about 34 grams... http://www.meteoritesusa.com/tektites.htm >> >> This is bugging me because I can't find any info on it and I'd like to >> know if this is normal for a tektite or just some fluke oddity. >> >> Regards, >> Eric >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > > > > -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA http://www.meteoritesusa.com 904-236-5394 From eric at meteoritewatch.com Wed Feb 4 12:42:29 2009 From: eric at meteoritewatch.com (Eric Wichman) Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2009 09:42:29 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] Tektite with metal? In-Reply-To: <99c1e91a0902040923v5d5c09edx2d74b82c7018ad38@mail.gmail.com> References: <4989B70A.4090905@meteoritewatch.com> <99c1e91a0902040923v5d5c09edx2d74b82c7018ad38@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4989D385.7090804@meteoritewatch.com> Bob, Nope! Not sure at all.. That's why I sent the email to the list, in the hopes that you guys might know. Metallic looking minerals in tektites just seem odd to me, and being as this is my first experience with tektites I figured I'd inquire if this were normal... Apparently it's not so normal. Regardless if it's metal or a metallic looking mineral inclusion it is fascinating. I've cleaned 6 kilos of this material (hundreds of pieces) over the last few days and this is the only one that has this type of inclusion. I've searched Google with no luck. I did read a short blurb about iron spheroids being embedded in tektites but don't remember where I saw the article, and these inclusions are certainly not spherical. Eric Bob King wrote: > Hi Eric, > Are you sure it's solid metal? Could it be a mineral? I'm not tektite > expert but I have found occasional bits of material that have > mineralized over time in the deep pits and grooves of tektites. The > material I've seen is brownish but it's rocky, not metallic. > Bob > > On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 9:40 AM, Eric Wichman wrote: > >> Hey all, >> >> On my recent adventure to the Tucson show I purchased many meteorites and >> about 6 kilos of tektites, in the batch of tektites I found an odd piece. >> Now I'm very familiar with chondrites but know little to nothing about >> tektites. Can someone please tell me what I'm looking at here. >> >> It's an odd piece. It appears to be metal embedded in the tektite in two >> places. This is the only piece I have that exhibits this inclusion. Is this >> a natural inclusion that formed after the tektite was formed or is it just >> something "stuck" in the tektite??? >> >> The piece is about 34 grams... http://www.meteoritesusa.com/tektites.htm >> >> This is bugging me because I can't find any info on it and I'd like to know >> if this is normal for a tektite or just some fluke oddity. >> >> Regards, >> Eric >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> > > -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA http://www.meteoritesusa.com 904-236-5394 From delraygoddess at yahoo.com Wed Feb 4 14:52:13 2009 From: delraygoddess at yahoo.com (Leigh Anne DelRay) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 11:52:13 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] more Tucson Gem Show Photos Message-ID: <28516.85551.qm@web37102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello List. Enjoy. They are not all meteorite related. All are at the show though. http://www.callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/dino1.jpg http://www.callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/karl2.jpg http://www.callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/fukang.jpg http://www.callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/fred.jpg http://www.callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/tall.jpg http://www.callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/inn-suites1.jpg http://www.callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/karl1.jpg http://www.callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/malachite-handguns.jpg http://www.callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/meteorite-head.jpg http://www.callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/weird.jpg http://www.callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/dino2.jpg http://www.callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/cave-bear.jpg just for laughs http://www.callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/not-so-compact.jpg Have a great day.. From meteoritefinder at yahoo.com Wed Feb 4 14:58:47 2009 From: meteoritefinder at yahoo.com (Robert Woolard) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 11:58:47 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Nininger question Message-ID: <533127.97786.qm@web39608.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello List, I wanted to see if any of you ( especially you, Mike Jensen ???) might help me with a question concerning a photo of Nininger that I found tucked inside a copy of his "Meteoritics" book of collected papers. I'm embarrassed to say I've had this book for 14 years and never knew this photograph had been stuck inside it by someone. The photo is of Nininger and another man sitting in an airport. On the back is written : " H H Nininger + Falco, Albuquerque airport 1979 " (or 1977 possibly) I'm guessing this might be Emilio E Falco whom I gather was an astrophysicist. The name MIGHT be " Faleo ", but I think it says Falco. Does anyone know anything about exactly who this man is? Would he most likely be Emilio E Falco, and if so were Nininger and him friends, or associates? Thanks to any who might know something about this. Best wishes, Robert Woolard From gmhupe at htn.net Wed Feb 4 15:07:07 2009 From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 15:07:07 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] more Tucson Gem Show Photos References: <28516.85551.qm@web37102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <41441DA6F520433EBABF0110F47D4975@Gregor> Hey Leigh Anne, Looks like you are having a good time at the show! Thanks for sharing the photos, I like the one where you are... being one with your inner bear! Unfortunately I am unable to make to this year's show, too much going on here :*-( I hope everyone has a blast!! Best regards, Greg ==================== Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmhupe at htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 ==================== Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault ----- Original Message ----- From: "Leigh Anne DelRay" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 2:52 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] more Tucson Gem Show Photos > Hello List. > Enjoy. They are not all meteorite related. All are at the show though. > > > http://www.callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/dino1.jpg > http://www.callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/karl2.jpg > http://www.callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/fukang.jpg > http://www.callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/fred.jpg > http://www.callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/tall.jpg > http://www.callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/inn-suites1.jpg > http://www.callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/karl1.jpg > http://www.callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/malachite-handguns.jpg > http://www.callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/meteorite-head.jpg > http://www.callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/weird.jpg > http://www.callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/dino2.jpg > http://www.callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/cave-bear.jpg > > just for laughs > http://www.callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/not-so-compact.jpg > > Have a great day.. > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Wed Feb 4 22:26:58 2009 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 21:26:58 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Powerful New Technique Measures Asteroids' Sizes And Shapes Message-ID: <0df901c98741$9ae6f0e0$6043e146@ATARIENGINE> "Powerful New Technique Measures Asteroids' Sizes And Shapes" http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/02/090204085309.htm Using two of the European Southern Observatories' 8.2-meter telescopes as a 47-meter interferometer, the exact size and shape of asteroids as small as 15 kilometers can be measured. Previously, only the 100 largest asteroids could be resolved; this extends the number to thousands (although the process is slow and laborious). The asteroid 234 Barabara was resolved into two peculiar shapes. The best fit model is composed of two bodies each the size of a major city - with diameters of 37 and 21 km - separated by at least 24 km. "The two parts appear to overlap, so the object could be shaped like a gigantic peanut or, it could be two separate bodies orbiting each other." Or, I hasten to say, two bodies in contact but not attached to each other and rolling around like ball bearings... Sterling K. Webb From michael at spacerocksinc.com Thu Feb 5 00:13:26 2009 From: michael at spacerocksinc.com (Michael Johnson) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 21:13:26 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - February 5, 2009 Message-ID: <21729196.753871233810805597.JavaMail.root@mbs5.homesteadmail.com> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/February_5_2009.html From nlehrman at nvbell.net Thu Feb 5 01:30:31 2009 From: nlehrman at nvbell.net (Norm Lehrman) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 22:30:31 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Tektite with metal? In-Reply-To: <4989D440.4030009@meteoritewatch.com> Message-ID: <654949.71232.qm@web81006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> All, The material pictured is just an iron oxy-hydroxide mixture ("limonite" works okay) that occurs naturally in lateritic soils. It is quite common on tektites from some localities. If you want to clean it, just soak the tektite in HCl for a week or two. It will then be easily picked or washed out--- If it is any consolation, when I first got started with tektites I hoarded pieces like that, also thinking they might be related to the famed Fe-Ni inclusions. No such luck. Cheers, Norm (http://tektitesource.com---still on hold in our absence from the USA) --- On Wed, 2/4/09, Eric Wichman wrote: > From: Eric Wichman > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Tektite with metal? > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Wednesday, February 4, 2009, 9:45 AM > Phil, That's the closest thing I've seen. That might > be it. > > Eric > > > > > > Phil Morgan wrote: > > Eric, I believe what your seeing is the same thing > (maybe polished > > somehow) as what I've heard this referred to as > Limonite. Here is an > > example. http://www.tektiteinc.com/104grams.html > > > > I have very similar examples and it is very hard > stuff. > > > > Phil > > > > On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 9:42 AM, Eric Wichman > > > wrote: > > > > Sean, > > > > Unsure of whether it is metal... it resembles > metal, but is not > > magnetic. I've tried using a small pick to > remove it and even a > > stainless steel wire brush and no luck. It's > not soil of any kind. > > > > I'll try to get some 10X magnification > photos... > > > > Eric > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > T. Murray wrote: > > > > Eric - are you sure that is metal? I'm > curious to know if a > > magnet sticks to it... Most of these that I > have seen are > > compacted soil/minerals that are attached to > the tektite. > > Kind of like caliche. > > > > I have a bunch of tektites with those kinds of > "inclusions" - > > but they are all local material that has just > gotten stuck in > > the weathered surface of the tektite. I > usually leave them in > > as it is an indicator of the soil/material > where the tektite > > was found. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric > Wichman" > > > > > To: > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 10:40 AM > > Subject: [meteorite-list] Tektite with metal? > > > > > > > > Hey all, > > > > On my recent adventure to the Tucson show > I purchased many > > meteorites and about 6 kilos of tektites, > in the batch of > > tektites I found an odd piece. Now I'm > very familiar with > > chondrites but know little to nothing > about tektites. Can > > someone please tell me what I'm > looking at here. > > > > It's an odd piece. It appears to be > metal embedded in the > > tektite in two places. This is the only > piece I have that > > exhibits this inclusion. Is this a natural > inclusion that > > formed after the tektite was formed or is > it just > > something "stuck" in the > tektite??? > > > > The piece is about 34 grams... > > http://www.meteoritesusa.com/tektites.htm > > > > This is bugging me because I can't > find any info on it and > > I'd like to know if this is normal for > a tektite or just > > some fluke oddity. > > > > Regards, > > Eric > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Regards, > > Eric Wichman > > Meteorites USA > > http://www.meteoritesusa.com > > > 904-236-5394 > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > -- > Regards, > Eric Wichman > Meteorites USA > http://www.meteoritesusa.com > 904-236-5394 > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From arizonakeith at cox.net Thu Feb 5 02:21:38 2009 From: arizonakeith at cox.net (Arizona Keith) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 00:21:38 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Reason to go to Tucson pt2 Message-ID: Hello List Weather, Friends, Meteorites and cool stuff. http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/Tucson2009a660.jpg Before the show started http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/Tucson2009a128.jpg During http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/Tucson2009a662.jpg Setting up Han's 1430# Campo http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/Tucson2009a180.jpg Unpacking Han's 2 ton Campo http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/Tucson2009c800.jpg Crushed 2 pallets http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/Tucson2009a797.jpg Luc and Alain http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/Tucson2009c739.jpg Alain Carion Old Collection L'Aigle http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/Tucson2009c743.jpg Luc Labenne and His Collection http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/Tucson2009c765.jpg Luc's interesting new meteorite http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/Tucson2009c763.jpg http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/Tucson2009c758.jpg Pani http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/Tucson2009c290.jpg Pani's Unique Howardite http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/Tucson2009c286.jpg Bruno and Carine http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/Tucson2009c850.jpg Bruno's Chassignite http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/Tucson2009c275.jpg Bruno's Cat Skull http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/Tucson2009w1d2cb265.jpg Misc. for around the show http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/Tucson2009c674.jpg http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/Tucson2009c695.jpg http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/Tucson2009a872.jpg http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/Tucson2009w1d291.jpg http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/Tucson2009w1d281.jpg Hope you all enjoy. Keith Chandler AZ From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com Thu Feb 5 06:49:48 2009 From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 03:49:48 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] tucson 2009 Message-ID: <412859.12448.qm@web57802.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Let's get this show on the road.Literally!See ya'all there! ? Steve R.Arnold,Chicago! http://chicagometeorites.net/ From azizhabibi at yahoo.com Thu Feb 5 09:06:49 2009 From: azizhabibi at yahoo.com (habibi abdelaziz) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 06:06:49 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] meteorite not seen before guess what is it ?? Message-ID: <714440.83275.qm@web62006.mail.re1.yahoo.com> hello listoid, i get this fantastic meteorite 90 gr before i cut it ,i was thinking because of the carrote striation that it is may be paired to nwa 1460/480. after cut it's something else , it has depression and thumberprint and its orionted has crust, after cut it look like it has very few point of iron to be sur it is a meteorite for sur, well what this meteorite could be, planetary , ungrouped what??? i would love to hear your guess what do you think it is, for sur its something new and not seen before, http://www.flickr.com/photos/azizhabibi/ all the best aziz IMCA 6220 habibi aziz box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco phone. 21235576145 fax.21235576170 __________________________________________________________________________________________________ Ne pleurez pas si votre Webmail ferme ! R?cup?rez votre historique sur Yahoo! Mail ! http://fr.docs.yahoo.com/mail/transfert_mails.html From psc2410xi at yahoo.com Thu Feb 5 09:46:31 2009 From: psc2410xi at yahoo.com (Don Rawlings) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 06:46:31 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Reason to go to Tucson pt2 Message-ID: <760180.52464.qm@web59312.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Great Photos Keith. Keem em coming. Don Rawlings --- On Thu, 2/5/09, Arizona Keith wrote: From: Arizona Keith Subject: [meteorite-list] Reason to go to Tucson pt2 To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Date: Thursday, February 5, 2009, 2:21 AM Hello List Weather, Friends, Meteorites and cool stuff. http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/Tucson2009a660.jpg Before the show started http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/Tucson2009a128.jpg During http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/Tucson2009a662.jpg Setting up Han's 1430# Campo http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/Tucson2009a180.jpg Unpacking Han's 2 ton Campo http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/Tucson2009c800.jpg Crushed 2 pallets http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/Tucson2009a797.jpg Luc and Alain http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/Tucson2009c739.jpg Alain Carion Old Collection L'Aigle http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/Tucson2009c743.jpg Luc Labenne and His Collection http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/Tucson2009c765.jpg Luc's interesting new meteorite http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/Tucson2009c763.jpg http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/Tucson2009c758.jpg Pani http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/Tucson2009c290.jpg Pani's Unique Howardite http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/Tucson2009c286.jpg Bruno and Carine http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/Tucson2009c850.jpg Bruno's Chassignite http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/Tucson2009c275.jpg Bruno's Cat Skull http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/Tucson2009w1d2cb265.jpg Misc. for around the show http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/Tucson2009c674.jpg http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/Tucson2009c695.jpg http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/Tucson2009a872.jpg http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/Tucson2009w1d291.jpg http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/Tucson2009w1d281.jpg Hope you all enjoy. Keith Chandler AZ ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Thu Feb 5 10:10:51 2009 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 07:10:51 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Reason to go to Tucson pt2 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <649232.7042.qm@web110602.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Wonderful photos Keith. The show has been a lot of fun so far, really ramping up today. Those of us stuck in selling rooms have little time to see the sights. Keep it up, we all enjoy the hard work you do for us and the photos you share with us Keith. Michael Farmer --- On Thu, 2/5/09, Arizona Keith wrote: > From: Arizona Keith > Subject: [meteorite-list] Reason to go to Tucson pt2 > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Thursday, February 5, 2009, 12:21 AM > Hello List > > Weather, Friends, Meteorites and cool stuff. > > http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/Tucson2009a660.jpg > > Before the show started > http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/Tucson2009a128.jpg > > During > http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/Tucson2009a662.jpg > > Setting up Han's 1430# Campo > http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/Tucson2009a180.jpg > > Unpacking Han's 2 ton Campo > http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/Tucson2009c800.jpg > > Crushed 2 pallets > http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/Tucson2009a797.jpg > > Luc and Alain > http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/Tucson2009c739.jpg > > Alain Carion Old Collection L'Aigle > http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/Tucson2009c743.jpg > > Luc Labenne and His Collection > http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/Tucson2009c765.jpg > > Luc's interesting new meteorite > http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/Tucson2009c763.jpg > > http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/Tucson2009c758.jpg > > Pani > http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/Tucson2009c290.jpg > > Pani's Unique Howardite > http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/Tucson2009c286.jpg > > Bruno and Carine > http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/Tucson2009c850.jpg > > Bruno's Chassignite > http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/Tucson2009c275.jpg > > Bruno's Cat Skull > http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/Tucson2009w1d2cb265.jpg > > Misc. for around the show > > http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/Tucson2009c674.jpg > > http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/Tucson2009c695.jpg > > http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/Tucson2009a872.jpg > > http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/Tucson2009w1d291.jpg > > http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/Tucson2009w1d281.jpg > > Hope you all enjoy. > > Keith > Chandler AZ > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From valparint at aol.com Thu Feb 5 10:33:52 2009 From: valparint at aol.com (valparint at aol.com) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 08:33:52 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] more Tucson Gem Show Photos Message-ID: Fun pics, Leigh Anne. Great stuff. Paul Swartz From eric at meteoritewatch.com Thu Feb 5 11:40:03 2009 From: eric at meteoritewatch.com (Eric Wichman) Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2009 08:40:03 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] Back to Tucson! Maybe... AD? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <498B1663.80900@meteoritewatch.com> Hi all, Please forgive all my emails this week, we are really trying hard to get back out to Tucson tomorrow and we're very close! In a last ditch attempt and very transparent way I am throwing caution to the wind and offering up my baby. My very first meteorite website, MeteoriteWatch.com This is more of an announcement and not a meteorites for sale ad. Please read the post here: http://www.meteoritewatch.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=287 I don't want to shut this site down and would much rather hand over the reigns to someone who will give it the care it deserves. I simply don't have time to run 3 meteorite related websites and will be concentrating all my efforts on MeteoritesUSA.com and another meteorite venture I've been working on for the last year... (hopefully you guys will enjoy it) I'm accepting serious offers on the Meteoritewatch.com domain. It's only up for sale for the next 24 hours, just enough time to get back out to the Tucson show for the Birthday Bash. We went last weekend and had an awesome time, met some really great people and enjoyed ourselves and the show immensely. We're hoping to get back out there this coming weekend (tomorrow) and meet everyone at the big party tomorrow night. Help us do this and we will be eternally grateful... As a side note and I know this might be pushing it just a little bit, I do have a big chondrite sale ( http://www.meteoritesusa.com/nwa/ ) going on with loads of great stuff I picked up at the show last week. Purchases will help us get back out to Tucson and allow us to get even more meteorites for you guys who can't make it to the show. I will shop around the show for you as well and be your on-site buyer if you like as well. I've had a couple people ask me to do this for them already and it gave me this idea. We're really looking forward to meeting everyone and attending the Michael Blood auction if possible. If we can't do it I'll see you there next year! Thanks in advance for you guys' patience with my emails this week while the show is in town. I promise I won't email this much again, at least until next year! ;) Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA www.meteoritesusa.com 904-236-5394 From meteoriteshow at free.fr Thu Feb 5 12:14:57 2009 From: meteoriteshow at free.fr (Meteoriteshow) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 18:14:57 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Auctions ending on ebay & new meteorites on meteoriteshow web site Message-ID: <21A3AB81A9B842FE8AFF2EC4E5BE5EA4@john> Dear All, This saturday we have 8 auctions ending on saturday that you can find at: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZmeteoriteshow I also have some new beautiful H4 chondrites for sale on my website that can be seen at http://meteoriteshow.free.fr/meteoriteshow%20fra/pages%20navigation/pieces_en_vente_FB-55-08.htm#H4 (classification pending with Bertrand Devouard - UBP Clermont-Ferrand) I was assigned three provisonal NWA numbers by the Meteoritical Society: - NWA 5618: for my howardite that has been for sale on my website at: http://meteoriteshow.free.fr/meteoriteshow%20fra/pages%20navigation/pieces_en_vente_NWA-XXX-HOWARDITE-fra.htm The classification should be provided very soon by Jean-Alix Barrat. - NWA 5611: for a new Eurcrite (TKW: 355g) that will be soon proposed on my website, cut in slices (may be paired to NWA 2126 according to Jean-Alix Barrat who is working on its classification). - NWA 5612: for a new Howardite (TKW: 63.8g) that will be soon proposed on my website only as a MAIN MASS weighing 53.1g after having cut the type specimen (may be paired to NWA 1664 according to Jean-Alix Barrat who is working on its classification). DETAILS OF THIS SATURDAY EBAY AUCTIONS: 1- EL AROUSS L-IMB (unclas.) - 10.8g partslice: still at $1.00 starting price http://cgi.ebay.com/METEORITE-EL-AROUSS-L-IMB-unclas-10-8g-partslice_W0QQitemZ330304643712QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item330304643712&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318 2- Gao-Guenie - H5 - 8.3g ORIENTED individual: still at $1.00 starting price, NO BID YET!!! http://cgi.ebay.com/METEORITE-Gao-Guenie-H5-8-3g-ORIENTED-individual_W0QQitemZ330304645129QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item330304645129&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318 3- HaH244 L5-6 - 20.4g partslice: Great partslice and there is not much of this meteorite left for sale... http://cgi.ebay.com/METEORITE-HaH244-L5-6-20-4g-partslice_W0QQitemZ330304646463QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item330304646463&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318 4- HaH250 H5 - 50.0g endpiece: Still at a low price, good deal... http://cgi.ebay.com/METEORITE-HaH250-H5-50-0g-endpiece_W0QQitemZ330304647985QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item330304647985&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318 5- SAH 02500 L3 - 406.8g fragment: with remnant fusion crust http://cgi.ebay.com/METEORITE-SAH-02500-L3-406-8g-fragment_W0QQitemZ330304650965QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item330304650965&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318 6- Sikhote-Alin IRON IIAB - 17.0g oriented ind.: A beauty, few bids and low price so far http://cgi.ebay.com/METEORITE-Sikhote-Alin-IRON-IIAB-17-0g-oriented-ind_W0QQitemZ330304652516QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item330304652516&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318 7- SAH 02500 L3 - 88.3g endpiece: Also a very good deal, very attractive endcut displaying the nice structure of SAH 02500 on a wide surface http://cgi.ebay.com/METEORITE-SAH-02500-L3-88-3g-endpiece_W0QQitemZ330304653832QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item330304653832&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318 8- ORIENTED & FUSION CRUSTED OC #02010 - 1972g: SIMPLY A BEAUTY. JUST WATCH IT... & BID!!! http://cgi.ebay.com/METEORITE-ORIENTED-FUSION-CRUSTED-OC-02010-1972g_W0QQitemZ330304649444QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item330304649444&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318 Thanks for watching and good luck to all of you! Kind regards Frederic Beroud http://www.meteoriteshow.com IMCA #2491 From yellowengine at earthlink.net Thu Feb 5 13:37:46 2009 From: yellowengine at earthlink.net (RJP) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 13:37:46 -0500 (EST) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Dhofar 910 Lunar - Cash Discount Message-ID: <12104736.1233859066967.JavaMail.root@mswamui-cedar.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Good Afternoon Everyone, To those not enjoying sunny Tucson, I just wanted to take a moment to point out that I still have a very nice thin slice of Dhofar 910 available (ultra fresh lunar, bubble/vesicle rich, 142g tkw). As we all know, now is the time to purchase Lunar and Planetary material, especially those from the Dhofar region, due to the exportation regulations that were recently put into affect in Oman. Anyhow, I will take $480 shipped if you are paying by check or money order... otherwise, $500 shipped through Paypal. I am not making much at all on this one, it's just that I have made a few too many purchases over the last few months and I need to sell any duplicates that I have stashed away. Please email for larger photos, ect. Dhofar 910 - 0.74g thin slice, dimensions of 23 X 9 X 2mm http://outdoors.webshots.com/album/569165160RMTnOx Kind Regards, Ryan From yellowengine at earthlink.net Thu Feb 5 13:36:41 2009 From: yellowengine at earthlink.net (RJP) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 13:36:41 -0500 (EST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Dhofar 910 Lunar - Cash Discount Message-ID: <28406352.1233859001784.JavaMail.root@mswamui-cedar.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Good Afternoon Everyone, To those not enjoying sunny Tucson, I just wanted to take a moment to point out that I still have a very nice thin slice of Dhofar 910 available (ultra fresh lunar, bubble/vesicle rich, 142g tkw). As we all know, now is the time to purchase Lunar and Planetary material, especially those from the Dhofar region, due to the exportation regulations that were recently put into affect in Oman. Anyhow, I will take $480 shipped if you are paying by check or money order... otherwise, $500 shipped through Paypal. I am not making much at all on this one, it's just that I have made a few too many purchases over the last few months and I need to sell off any duplicates that I have stashed away. Please email for larger photos. Dhofar 910 - 0.74g thin slice, dimensions of 23 X 9 X 2mm http://outdoors.webshots.com/album/569165160RMTnOx Kind Regards, Ryan Pawelski From saharagems at yahoo.com Thu Feb 5 15:03:42 2009 From: saharagems at yahoo.com (Stalder Thomas) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 12:03:42 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Some fresh unclassified NWA individuals Message-ID: <466648.82271.qm@web44905.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Hi List, Not everybody is in Tucson, so I'm offering on my new website next to LDG some very nice unclassified NWA individuals. Pls take a look. 10 % discount until February 14, 2009 on all items. NWA xxx, individuals: http://www.sahara-gems.com/id49.html Cut and polished slices of Libyan Desert Glass (very unique)! http://www.sahara-gems.com/id26.html Meteorite scale cubes (2 left) http://www.sahara-gems.com/id40.html Enjoy and contact me off-list for any comments, feedback or orders. Thank you and have a nice day. Thomas From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Thu Feb 5 15:59:58 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 12:59:58 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Hayabusa Heads Back to Earth Message-ID: <200902052059.MAA15372@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://www.spaceflightnow.com/news/n0902/05hayabusa/ Asteroid sampler spacecraft heads back to planet Earth BY STEPHEN CLARK SPACEFLIGHT NOW February 5, 2009 Japan's Hayabusa probe, potentially loaded with the first rock samples from an asteroid, fired up one of its ion engines Wednesday to begin the second phase of the explorer's return voyage to Earth. Hayabusa ignited a single ion engine at 0235 GMT Wednesday to begin pulsing for up to 8,000 hours to finish guiding the spacecraft toward Earth, according to the Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency, or JAXA. The spacecraft's ion propulsion system has already completed than 31,000 hours of operations since its launch in 2003. The probe carries four ion engines, but engineers believe some of the devices are not capable of long-duration firings. Officials designed a taxing return trajectory using a single engine to reduce the odds of a major failure. Despite the hard work of several dozen engineers, Hayabusa still faces more hurdles before making its scheduled parachuted landing in Australia in June 2010. "We are not so optimistic, but not so pessimistic," said Makoto Yoshikawa, Hayabusa project scientist. Officials said the ion engine must accelerate Hayabusa by nearly 900 mph by March 2010, when engineers will turn off the machine to begin the probe's final approach to Earth. "If the current status of Hayabusa (remains) until the final stage, we are sure that it will come back to the Earth," Yoshikawa said. The spacecraft still has enough xenon gas to power the ion engine and control its orientation in space, according to JAXA. "We are continuing to pay careful attention to our onboard equipment and are doing our utmost to operate the Hayabusa with the greatest care," officials said in a statement. The craft's ion engines use microwave discharge to ionize xenon gas and accelerate the plasma to high speeds. The highly-efficient engines produce little thrust, but the devices can operate for months to propel the spacecraft across the solar system using small amounts of fuel. Hayabusa completed the first round of return trip ion engine operations in October 2007 after a burn lasting about four months. The mission's ground team refined operations plans since 2007 to increase the odds of Hayabusa's successful return, according to Yoshikawa. Scientists also devised methods to find Hayabusa's entry capsule after landing and created plans to transport the sample canister from Australia to a specially-outfitted science lab in Japan, Yoshikawa said. The science team is currently testing the mission's curation facility and discussing how to analyze asteroid samples returned by Hayabusa. But officials still are not sure if the 950-pound probe is actually carrying the priceless samples. Hayabusa spent three months near asteroid Itokawa in late 2005, studying the space rock and attempting a series of close approaches to collect bits of rock and dirt. A pellet was supposed to be fired into the surface of Itokawa to force the rocks through a funnel to guide the precious samples into a container for the voyage back to Earth. Those plans did not materialize in November 2005 and Hayabusa spent up to 30 minutes on the asteroid's surface during a failed retrieval attempt. Officials later reviewed telemetry data from a subsequent attempt and determined the pellet likely did not fire because the system was disarmed. Scientists hope some particles were funneled into the collection chamber, even if the pellet did not fire as planned. Engineers were forced to postpone the start of Hayabusa's return trip by a year after the mission was struck by a fuel leak and communications problems. Controllers labored to overcome the issues, which were compounded by the loss of two orientation-controlling reaction wheels and power cells in an electrical battery. From jbaxter112 at pol.net Thu Feb 5 16:21:06 2009 From: jbaxter112 at pol.net (jbaxter112 at pol.net) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 16:21:06 -0500 (EST) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - NWA 5584- New Rumuruti for sale In-Reply-To: <4989C359.3000608@t-online.de> References: <4989C359.3000608@t-online.de> Message-ID: <65110.10.250.10.1.1233868866.squirrel@webmail.medscape.com> Hello Carsten, Is the 1.0 gram slice still available, I would like it if available. I will not answer until tomorrow as I'm out of town(in Tucson). Best Wishes, Jim Baxter > Dear List, > > we have a new beautiful R-Chondrite for sale, the provisional > number for this rare Rumuruti is NWA 5584. Unlike other Rumuruti's this > one is full off nice Chondrules! > > You will find some slices for sale here: > > http://www.gi-po.de/meteorit_verkauf_5584%20special.html > > Many thanks for viewing! > > Best greetings, > > Carsten > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From gredfern at earthlink.net Tue Feb 3 22:56:16 2009 From: gredfern at earthlink.net (Greg Redfern) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 22:56:16 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Episode 11 of Astrocast.tv Message-ID: <051FD0AE7D244256AC70D5FAE1EEADD4@gregufeopu010a> Hi All, Please tune in to Episode 11 of http://astrocast.tv/ All the best, Greg Greg Redfern NASA JPL Solar System Ambassador http://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/ambassador/index.html WHAT'S UP?: THE SPACE PLACE http://www.wtopnews.com/?sid=600113&nid=421 ASTROCAST http://astrocast.tv/ From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Thu Feb 5 17:29:59 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 14:29:59 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] MRO HiRISE Images - February 4, 2009 Message-ID: <200902052229.OAA26718@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> MARS RECONNAISSANCE ORBITER HIRISE IMAGES February 4, 2009 o Bolide Breakup and Impact http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_011618_1885 o Terrain in Eberswalde Crater http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_011331_1560 o Layering at Ganges Chasma http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_011292_1720 All of the HiRISE images are archived here: http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ Information about the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter is online at http://www.nasa.gov/mro. The mission is managed by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, a division of the California Institute of Technology, for the NASA Science Mission Directorate, Washington, D.C. Lockheed Martin Space Systems, of Denver, is the prime contractor and built the spacecraft. HiRISE is operated by the University of Arizona. Ball Aerospace and Technologies Corp., of Boulder, Colo., built the HiRISE instrument. From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Thu Feb 5 17:32:40 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 14:32:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA and Caltech Test Steep-Terrain Rover Message-ID: <200902052232.OAA28021@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2009-016 NASA and Caltech Test Steep-Terrain Rover Jet Propulsion Laboratory February 04, 2009 PASADENA, Calif. -- Engineers from NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory and students at the California Institute of Technology have designed and tested a versatile, low-mass robot that can rappel off cliffs, travel nimbly over steep and rocky terrain, and explore deep craters. This prototype rover, called Axel, might help future robotic spacecraft better explore and investigate foreign worlds such as Mars. On Earth, Axel might assist in search-and-rescue operations. A Web video showing an Axel test-run at the JPL Mars yard is online at: www.jpl.nasa.gov/video/index.cfm?id=806 . "Axel extends our ability to explore terrains that we haven't been able to explore in the past, such as deep craters with vertically-sloped promontories," said Axel's principal investigator, Issa A.D. Nesnas, of JPL's robotics and mobility section. "Also, because Axel is relatively low-mass, a mission may carry a number of Axel rovers. That would give us the opportunity to be more aggressive with the terrain we would explore, while keeping the overall risk manageable." The simple and elegant design of Axel, which can operate both upside down and right side up, uses only three motors: one to control each of its two wheels and a third to control a lever. The lever contains a scoop to gather lunar or planetary material for scientists to study, and it also adjusts the robot's two stereo cameras, which can tilt 360 degrees. Axel's cylindrical body has computing and wireless communications capabilities and an inertial sensor to operate autonomously. It also sports a tether that Axel can unreel to descend from a larger lander, rover or anchor point. The rover can use different wheel types, from large foldable wheels to inflatable ones, which help the rover tolerate a hard landing and handle rocky terrain. Nesnas co-leads the project with Joel Burdick, a mechanical and bioengineering professor at Caltech, who supervises a handful of Caltech graduate and undergraduate students working on the rover system. Last fall, the JPL-Caltech team demonstrated Axel at the annual Smithsonian Folklife Festival in Washington, which showcased NASA for the agency's 50th anniversary. "Collaboration with Caltech has been key to the success of this project," Nesnas said. "The students contributed significantly to the design of the tethered Axel. Their creative work enabled us to analyze, design and build new wheels, sampling tools and software. The students also played a key role in field-testing this robot. Without them, we would not have been able to accomplish such goals, given our limited resources." JPL began developing Axel in 1999, in partnership with Purdue University, West Lafayette, Ind., and Arkansas Tech University, Russellville, Ark. The Axel project was funded through NASA's Exploration System Mission Directorate. Caltech manages JPL for NASA. More information on Axel is at: http://www-robotics.jpl.nasa.gov/systems/system.cfm?System=16 and at http://robotics.caltech.edu/~pablo/axel/home.html . Note to Editors: B-roll of the Axel test-run at JPL's Mars Yard and sound bites with Axel team leaders and students will be available on NASA TV. The NASA TV schedule is online at www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/schedule.html . The NASA TV Media Channel is available on MPEG-2 digital C-band signal accessed via satellite AMC-6, at 72 degrees west longitude, transponder 17C, 4040 MHz, vertical polarization. For digital downlink information for NASA TV's Media Channel and access to NASA TV's Public Channel on the Web, visit http://www.nasa.gov/ntv . Rhea Borja 818-354-0850 Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. Rhea.R.Borja at jpl.nasa.gov 2009-016 From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Thu Feb 5 17:39:57 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 14:39:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Green Comet Approaches Earth - Comet C/2007 N3 (Lulin) Message-ID: <200902052239.OAA29473@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2009/04feb_greencomet.htm Green Comet Approaches Earth NASA Science news 02.04.2009 February 4, 2009: In 1996, a 7-year-old boy in China bent over the eyepiece of a small telescope and saw something that would change his life--a comet of flamboyant beauty, bright and puffy with an active tail. At first he thought he himself had discovered it, but no, he learned, two men named "Hale" and "Bopp" had beat him to it. Mastering his disappointment, young Quanzhi Ye resolved to find his own comet one day. And one day, he did. Fast forward to a summer afternoon in July 2007. Ye, now 19 years old and a student of meteorology at China's Sun Yat-sen University, bent over his desk to stare at a black-and-white star field. The photo was taken nights before by Taiwanese astronomer Chi Sheng Lin on "sky patrol" at the Lulin Observatory. Ye's finger moved from point to point--and stopped. One of the stars was not a star, it was a comet, and this time Ye saw it first. Comet Lulin, named after the observatory in Taiwan where the discovery-photo was taken, is now approaching Earth. "It is a green beauty that could become visible to the naked eye any day now," says Ye. Amateur astronomer Jack Newton sends this photo from his backyard observatory in Arizona: http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2009/images/greencomet/Jack-Newton1.jpg "My retired eyes still cannot see the brightening comet," says Newton, "but my 14-inch telescope picked it up quite nicely on Feb. 1st." The comet makes its closest approach to Earth (0.41 AU) on Feb. 24, 2009. Current estimates peg the maximum brightness at 4th or 5th magnitude, which means dark country skies would be required to see it. No one can say for sure, however, because this appears to be Lulin's first visit to the inner solar system and its first exposure to intense sunlight. Surprises are possible. Lulin's green color comes from the gases that make up its Jupiter-sized atmosphere. Jets spewing from the comet's nucleus contain cyanogen (CN: a poisonous gas found in many comets) and diatomic carbon (C2). Both substances glow green when illuminated by sunlight in the near-vacuum of space. In 1910, many people panicked when astronomers revealed Earth would pass through the cyanogen-rich tail of Comet Halley. False alarm: The wispy tail of the comet couldn't penetrate Earth's dense atmosphere; even it if had penetrated, there wasn't enough cyanogen to cause real trouble. Comet Lulin will cause even less trouble than Halley did. At closest approach in late February, Lulin will stop 38 million miles short of Earth, utterly harmless. To see Comet Lulin with your own eyes, set your alarm for 3 am. The comet rises a few hours before the sun and may be found about 1/3rd of the way up the southern sky before dawn. Here are some dates when it is especially easy to find: sky map Feb. 6th: Comet Lulin glides by Zubenelgenubi, a double star at the fulcrum of Libra's scales. Zubenelgenubi is not only fun to say (zuBEN-el-JA-newbee), but also a handy guide. You can see Zubenelgenubi with your unaided eye (it is about as bright as stars in the Big Dipper); binoculars pointed at the binary star reveal Comet Lulin in beautiful proximity. [sky map ] Feb. 16th: Comet Lulin passes Spica in the constellation Virgo. Spica is a star of first magnitude and a guidepost even city astronomers cannot miss. A finderscope pointed at Spica will capture Comet Lulin in the field of view, centering the optics within a nudge of both objects. [sky map ] Feb. 24th: Closest approach! On this special morning, Lulin will lie just a few degrees from Saturn in the constellation Leo. Saturn is obvious to the unaided eye, and Lulin could be as well. If this doesn't draw you out of bed, nothing will. [sky map ] Ye notes that Comet Lulin is remarkable not only for its rare beauty, but also for its rare manner of discovery. "This is a 'comet of collaboration' between Taiwanese and Chinese astronomers," he says. "The discovery could not have been made without a contribution from both sides of the Strait that separates our countries. Chi Sheng Lin and other members of the Lulin Observatory staff enabled me to get the images I wanted, while I analyzed the data and found the comet." Somewhere this month, Ye imagines, another youngster will bend over an eyepiece, see Comet Lulin, and feel the same thrill he did gazing at Comet Hale-Bopp in 1996. And who knows where that might lead...? "I hope that my experience might inspire other young people to pursue the same starry dreams as myself," says Ye. From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Thu Feb 5 17:42:45 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 14:42:45 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Comet Lulin (C/2007 N3) Loses Part Of Its Tail Message-ID: <200902052242.OAA00397@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> Space Weather News for Feb. 5, 2009 http://spaceweather.com COMET TAIL: Comet Lulin (C/2007 N3) is approaching Earth and putting on a good show for amateur astronomers. Yesterday, Feb. 4th, observers witnessed a "disconnection event." A gust of solar wind tore off part of the comet's tail in plain view of backyard telescopes. Photos of the event are featured on today's edition of http://spaceweather.com. Activity in the comet's tail and atmosphere will become even easier to see in the weeks ahead as Lulin nears closest approach on Feb. 24th. At that time the comet will lie only 38 million miles from Earth and it should be visible to the naked eye. In the meantime, please note that Feb. 5th-7th, is an especially good time to find Comet Lulin in the pre-dawn sky. The comet is gliding beautifully close to the naked-eye double star Zubenelgenubi. Just point your binoculars at the double star and the comet will materialize right beside it. Visit http://spaceweather.com for photos, sky maps and more information. From waltbranch at birch.net Thu Feb 5 18:22:42 2009 From: waltbranch at birch.net (Walter Branch) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 18:22:42 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Hayabusa Heads Back to Earth References: <200902052059.MAA15372@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> Message-ID: >because the system was disarmed. WHAT! The system was disarmed? You mean someone actually forgot to arm the system before firing the pellet! Am I reading this correctly? Wouldn't it be funny if after the probe is recovered and any samples are analyzed it is determined that they exactly match the soil from the Australian outback (picture the thing firing on impact). Sort of like one of the early US unmanned probes (can't remember if it was one of the Pioneer or Explorer series, or maybe Vanguard) that failed to launch. It rose a few inches then settled back down onto the launch pad (one part of a two part plug was shorter then the other) but the automatic sequencer dutifully ejected the probe from the top of the rocket and it flew through the air and went rolling into the bushes near the launch pad. It was a little humorous until someone realized that a fully fueled rocket was sitting on the launch pad with a parachute hanging from the top, billowing in the wind. Duh. -Walter Branch ----------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Baalke" To: "Meteorite Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 3:59 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Hayabusa Heads Back to Earth > > http://www.spaceflightnow.com/news/n0902/05hayabusa/ > > Asteroid sampler spacecraft heads back to planet Earth > BY STEPHEN CLARK > SPACEFLIGHT NOW > February 5, 2009 > > Japan's Hayabusa probe, potentially loaded with the first rock samples > from an asteroid, fired up one of its ion engines Wednesday to begin the > second phase of the explorer's return voyage to Earth. > > Hayabusa ignited a single ion engine at 0235 GMT Wednesday to begin > pulsing for up to 8,000 hours to finish guiding the spacecraft toward > Earth, according to the Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency, or JAXA. > > The spacecraft's ion propulsion system has already completed than 31,000 > hours of operations since its launch in 2003. > > The probe carries four ion engines, but engineers believe some of the > devices are not capable of long-duration firings. Officials designed a > taxing return trajectory using a single engine to reduce the odds of a > major failure. > > Despite the hard work of several dozen engineers, Hayabusa still faces > more hurdles before making its scheduled parachuted landing in Australia > in June 2010. > > "We are not so optimistic, but not so pessimistic," said Makoto > Yoshikawa, Hayabusa project scientist. > > Officials said the ion engine must accelerate Hayabusa by nearly 900 mph > by March 2010, when engineers will turn off the machine to begin the > probe's final approach to Earth. > > "If the current status of Hayabusa (remains) until the final stage, we > are sure that it will come back to the Earth," Yoshikawa said. > > The spacecraft still has enough xenon gas to power the ion engine and > control its orientation in space, according to JAXA. > > "We are continuing to pay careful attention to our onboard equipment and > are doing our utmost to operate the Hayabusa with the greatest care," > officials said in a statement. > > The craft's ion engines use microwave discharge to ionize xenon gas and > accelerate the plasma to high speeds. The highly-efficient engines > produce little thrust, but the devices can operate for months to propel > the spacecraft across the solar system using small amounts of fuel. > > Hayabusa completed the first round of return trip ion engine operations > in October 2007 after a burn lasting about four months. > > The mission's ground team refined operations plans since 2007 to > increase the odds of Hayabusa's successful return, according to Yoshikawa. > > Scientists also devised methods to find Hayabusa's entry capsule after > landing and created plans to transport the sample canister from > Australia to a specially-outfitted science lab in Japan, Yoshikawa said. > > The science team is currently testing the mission's curation facility > and discussing how to analyze asteroid samples returned by Hayabusa. > > But officials still are not sure if the 950-pound probe is actually > carrying the priceless samples. > > Hayabusa spent three months near asteroid Itokawa in late 2005, studying > the space rock and attempting a series of close approaches to collect > bits of rock and dirt. > > A pellet was supposed to be fired into the surface of Itokawa to force > the rocks through a funnel to guide the precious samples into a > container for the voyage back to Earth. > > Those plans did not materialize in November 2005 and Hayabusa spent up > to 30 minutes on the asteroid's surface during a failed retrieval > attempt. Officials later reviewed telemetry data from a subsequent > attempt and determined the pellet likely did not fire because the system > was disarmed. > > Scientists hope some particles were funneled into the collection > chamber, even if the pellet did not fire as planned. > > Engineers were forced to postpone the start of Hayabusa's return trip by > a year after the mission was struck by a fuel leak and communications > problems. > > Controllers labored to overcome the issues, which were compounded by the > loss of two orientation-controlling reaction wheels and power cells in > an electrical battery. > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.18/1935 - Release Date: 02/03/09 17:48:00 From michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com Thu Feb 5 20:34:58 2009 From: michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com (Michael Gilmer) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 17:34:58 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Attn : Tucson Attendees! Share your observations! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <308229.91518.qm@web58405.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi listees and lucky Tucson attendees! :) (*** WARNING - THIS IS LONG AND LOADED WITH QUESTIONS! ***) As I sit stuck in swampy Louisiana, pining for the Fjords, I find myself wondering about the current state of the market in Tucson. UNWA : What do the UNWA offerings look like this year? Are the wholesale prices going up? Are the prettier stones decreasing in quantity in comparison to the hordes of weathered-up stuff? Will it be impossible to get dark-crusted or nice dark wind-polished stones for under .30 cents a gram? I see retail prices of pretty OC's creeping closer and closer to .50 cents a gram for average stuff, and $1 a gram for whole stones, stones with orientation features, or any stone whose aesthetics make it stand out. Is there any hope that UNWA prices might recede, like gasoline prices did? ... IRONS : Are Argentine secret agents combing hotel rooms and convention floors? Has anyone been hauled out in chains for selling baby Campos? What is the latest gossip concerning this issue? Does it look like Campos might start drying up once the existing dealer stockpiles are depleted? Are there any more specimens or news coming out regarding Las Palmas? What is the going average rate in Tucson for a kilogram of small-medium Canyon Diablos of good quality? (maybe 20-100 grams each) ... STONY-IRONS : Is there anywhere in Tucson to get a showy small slice of Imilac or Esquel without paying $100 a gram (or more)? How much are cutting scraps of common pallasites like Brenham coming for? If I wanted to buy a kilo of small part-slices of Brenham (maybe 5-10 grams each), how much would I expect to pay? ... NEW/RECENT FALLS AND FORBIDDEN FALLS : Any Cali at the show? If so, how much per gram? Any large pieces of Tamdaught (sp?) available for inspection? Any opinions of it in person? Any Berduc being offered? If so, how much? Any outlaw Buzzard Coulee being offered under tables? Anything close to a complete individual of Carancas present? Even if it's only a gram? Or is everything in irregularly-shaped fragments and tiny part slices? If so, how much was it going for? ... SUPPLIES and EQUIPMENT : Was there a good selection of used lapidary saws available? What is a good price on a used 8" rock saw and a used 6" trim saw? Any bargain prices on good-quality new saws? Did anyone see any of those hard-to-find TINY Riker boxes that are smaller than the common 3x4" size? Were they being sold in quantity? If so, who has them? Is there a repeat vendor who is good for metal detectors? (used and new), if so, who is it? (web address?) What's the current best deal on a good used detector? Is there anyone who is a one-stop shop for met hunting gear? GPS, magnets and canes, field microscopes, detectors, topo maps, etc? ... RV FACILITIES : How good are the RV facilities within a short drive of the show? Do any of the local truckstops or hotels have water or shore power hookups, free or fee? Any good BLM boondocking areas within a short drive of the action? Do locals frown on dry campers? ... TRADING ETIQUETTE : Is dickering common? If prices are marked, are they considered firm? Will speaking in Esperanto get me a discount? When you walk into a seller's room and you don't know anyone yet, how do you tell who the seller is amongst the people standing around? Do people wear name-tags? Is it bad etiquette to bring a briefcase full of trading specimens and offer some to the seller? Are there any sellers who smoke cigars? If so, is a Cohiba a sufficient bribe to open trading negotiations? Are there sellers who are more cutthroat than others?....what I mean is, will a seller steer you to the best deal, even if it's a specimen for sale by another dealer in another room? Or will they always steer you towards something in their own inventory? With one Hupe not present this year, was there a noticeable disturbance in the force? ... If you have made it this far into this email, then I congratulate and thank you for withstanding my withering fusillade of inane inquiries. I ask all of these questions because I am dying to get a sneak-preview of the future market conditions after Tucson and I want to be a well-prepared show virgin when I attend for the first time next year. :) Best regards, good luck and happy hunting! MikeG ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com Thu Feb 5 20:52:22 2009 From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 17:52:22 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] tucson day 1 Message-ID: <910296.33864.qm@web57802.mail.re3.yahoo.com> hello and good evening list.I just came back from tucson out here in oro valley.It was really great to see everyone.Hans Koser,Ann Black,Geoff Notkin,The Reed boys,The Jensen boys,etc.Contrary to what?I heard there is alot of items to buy.Today I got?4 new meteorites.I got a 61 gram slice?of DONG UJIMQIN QI meso,a 685 gram very sculpted canton diablo,and a 8.9 gram slice of NEW CONCORD,OHIO,and my 65 gram slice of CALDWELL,KANSAS.The weather was 85 degree's and some what humid.I had a nice flight and it was just great to come to tucson.Tomorrow it's onto erich haiderers room,the eislers room,and edurado's room.Got to complete the circuit.I got some great pics today with more tomorrow.Well got alot of walking in and there is alot of great stuff still to see tomorrow.Well thats all till tomorrow.Have a nice?night.? ? Steve R.Arnold,Chicago! http://chicagometeorites.net/ From arizonakeith at cox.net Fri Feb 6 01:49:14 2009 From: arizonakeith at cox.net (Arizona Keith) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 23:49:14 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] IMCA Tucson Dinner Photo's Message-ID: Hello List Just got back from The IMCA dinner at La Fuente Restaurant. We all had a great time, here are a few the photo's http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/TucsonIMCA2009001a.jpg http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/TucsonIMCA2009c052.jpg http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/TucsonIMCA2009a056.jpg http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/TucsonIMCA2009a064.jpg http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/TucsonIMCA2009a083.jpg http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/TucsonIMCA2009a106.jpg http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/TucsonIMCA2009a110.jpg http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/TucsonIMCA2009c116.jpg http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/TucsonIMCA2009a119.jpg http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/TucsonIMCA2009c127.jpg http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/TucsonIMCA2009c131.jpg Hope you all enjoyed. Keith Chandler AZ From Carsten.Giessler at t-online.de Fri Feb 6 04:03:04 2009 From: Carsten.Giessler at t-online.de (Carsten Giessler) Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2009 10:03:04 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - NWA 5584- New Rumuruti for sale In-Reply-To: <65110.10.250.10.1.1233868866.squirrel@webmail.medscape.com> References: <4989C359.3000608@t-online.de> <65110.10.250.10.1.1233868866.squirrel@webmail.medscape.com> Message-ID: <498BFCC8.2040300@t-online.de> Hello Jim, many thanks for your email and the interest! Yes, the 1.0g. slice is available. If you like to buy it please pay 41 USD (shipping included) to my PayPal adress: korneliapoloczek at gmx.de Please let me also know your adress for shipping. Best greetings, Carsten From Carsten.Giessler at t-online.de Fri Feb 6 04:10:37 2009 From: Carsten.Giessler at t-online.de (Carsten Giessler) Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2009 10:10:37 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] (kein Betreff) Message-ID: <498BFE8D.1040503@t-online.de> uups, mistake please delete From michael at spacerocksinc.com Fri Feb 6 06:04:40 2009 From: michael at spacerocksinc.com (Michael Johnson) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 03:04:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - February 6, 2009 Message-ID: <28139359.892441233918280983.JavaMail.root@mbs5.homesteadmail.com> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/February_6_2009.html From STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com Fri Feb 6 11:30:53 2009 From: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com (STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 11:30:53 EST Subject: [meteorite-list] D'Orbigny mcirographs on Coast to Coast site Message-ID: Many of you saw the D'Orbigny Angrite skeletal crystal micrographs on Michael's Rocks from Space Picture of the Day a couple weeks ago. Those shots are on the Coast To Coast radio show web site. http://www.coasttocoastam.com/ I have done this several times and every time it brings many new people to my Micrograph Gallery (there is a link) which is hosted by Meteorite Times. Each post like this brings over a hundred emails from people who (generally speaking) had no idea meteorites were so accessible to average people. Any way, just wanted to let you all know and give a thanks to Paul at Meteorite Times for hosting my Gallery and monthly meteorite/microscope article Micro Vision. http://www.meteorite-times.com/meteorite_frame.htm This months article is on NWA 4901 Ungrouped Achondrite. The images are real cool! If you haven't gone there yet, please take a look! Thanks, Tom Phillips **************Great Deals on Dell Laptops. Starting at $499. (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1217883258x1201191827/aol?redir=http://ad.doubleclick. net/clk;211531132;33070124;e) From dmerchan at rochester.rr.com Fri Feb 6 11:34:25 2009 From: dmerchan at rochester.rr.com (Don Merchant) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 11:34:25 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] FUN QUESTION for ALL to Participate Message-ID: <000301c98878$c5ffab90$6401a8c0@donaldmerchant> Hi List. Ok you collectors out there.....you can only choose 1 of these choices and lets assume you have no cutting equipment since I know how SLICK some of you are out there!! lol .. Would you rather have a slice meteorite with NO CRUST, or would you rather have a fragment meteorite with a fair amount OF CRUST? Curious minds want to know! Sincerely Don Merchant IMCA #0960 From STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com Fri Feb 6 11:49:07 2009 From: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com (STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 11:49:07 EST Subject: [meteorite-list] FUN QUESTION for ALL to Participate Message-ID: Hi Don, If I had no saw or polishing options at all, I would take the slice. There is nothing like seeing billion year old space dust chondrules frozen in time and holding that in your hands. Crust is more of an acquired taste that must be (generally speaking) learned to be appreciated. That said, I guess it depends on the crust we are talking about. Tom In a message dated 2/6/2009 9:40:36 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, dmerchan at rochester.rr.com writes: Hi List. Ok you collectors out there.....you can only choose 1 of these choices and lets assume you have no cutting equipment since I know how SLICK some of you are out there!! lol .. Would you rather have a slice meteorite with NO CRUST, or would you rather have a fragment meteorite with a fair amount OF CRUST? Curious minds want to know! Sincerely Don Merchant IMCA #0960 ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list **************Great Deals on Dell Laptops. Starting at $499. (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1217883258x1201191827/aol?redir=http://ad.doubleclick. net/clk;211531132;33070124;e) From daistiho at hotmail.com Fri Feb 6 11:56:41 2009 From: daistiho at hotmail.com (tracy latimer) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 16:56:41 +0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] FUN QUESTION for ALL to Participate In-Reply-To: <000301c98878$c5ffab90$6401a8c0@donaldmerchant> References: <000301c98878$c5ffab90$6401a8c0@donaldmerchant> Message-ID: It depends what the aesthetics of the piece are. If it's something like a pallasite or mesosiderite, or a heavily weathered LL3 chondrite, the main attraction is on the inside and crust, while a bonus, is not the main attraction. If it's something like Zaklodzie (from a previous discussion) where there is distinct zoning as you move in from the crust, or a 'common' type with notable crust features, preparation of the inside is less an issue and crust becomes more important. Finally, if it's oriented, has good flow lines, lipping or other special and desirable crust features, unless it's scientifically necessary, why cut at all? Just my CM2, Tracy Latimer ---------------------------------------- > From: dmerchan at rochester.rr.com > To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 11:34:25 -0500 > CC: dmerchan at rochester.rr.com > Subject: [meteorite-list] FUN QUESTION for ALL to Participate > > Hi List. Ok you collectors out there.....you can only choose 1 of these > choices and lets assume you have no cutting equipment since I know how SLICK > some of you are out there!! lol .. Would you rather have a slice meteorite > with NO CRUST, or would you rather have a fragment meteorite with a fair > amount OF CRUST? > Curious minds want to know! > Sincerely > Don Merchant > IMCA #0960 > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_AE_Faster_022009 From gmhupe at htn.net Fri Feb 6 11:57:48 2009 From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 11:57:48 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] FUN QUESTION for ALL to Participate References: <000301c98878$c5ffab90$6401a8c0@donaldmerchant> Message-ID: <4C6F7985EB5F45129A6828B45F4C3B14@Gregor> Hi Don, OK, I'll play. It sounds like a trick question, or a play in words and imagination. I'll pick the fragment with no crust, but wanting to see the interior without polishing, I'll choose the piece that has "Slickensides", Mother Nature's free polishing!! Best regards, Greg ==================== Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmhupe at htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 ==================== Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Merchant" To: Cc: "Don Merchant" Sent: Friday, February 06, 2009 11:34 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] FUN QUESTION for ALL to Participate > Hi List. Ok you collectors out there.....you can only choose 1 of these > choices and lets assume you have no cutting equipment since I know how > SLICK some of you are out there!! lol .. Would you rather have a slice > meteorite with NO CRUST, or would you rather have a fragment meteorite > with a fair amount OF CRUST? > Curious minds want to know! > Sincerely > Don Merchant > IMCA #0960 > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From daistiho at hotmail.com Fri Feb 6 11:59:57 2009 From: daistiho at hotmail.com (tracy latimer) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 16:59:57 +0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] Technology for meteorite enthusiasts Message-ID: For the benefit of all those who can't be in Tucson, wouldn't it be nice if some technically minded sort could do a podcast of the Birthday Bash or Michael Blood's famouse auction? Maybe someday... Tracy Latimer _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_allup_explore_022009 From edeckert at triad.rr.com Fri Feb 6 12:02:53 2009 From: edeckert at triad.rr.com (edeckert at triad.rr.com) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 12:02:53 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] FUN QUESTION for ALL to Participate Message-ID: <380-2200925617253662@M2W030.mail2web.com> Hi Don, OK, assuming that I have no saw, I would take the fragment with lots of crust. THEN, I would buy a saw and cut & polish some super cool slices with crust! ;-) Ed Deckert IMCA #8911 Sigh... I'm such a smarty-pants! Original Message: ----------------- From: Don Merchant dmerchan at rochester.rr.com Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 11:34:25 -0500 To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, dmerchan at rochester.rr.com Subject: [meteorite-list] FUN QUESTION for ALL to Participate Hi List. Ok you collectors out there.....you can only choose 1 of these choices and lets assume you have no cutting equipment since I know how SLICK some of you are out there!! lol .. Would you rather have a slice meteorite with NO CRUST, or would you rather have a fragment meteorite with a fair amount OF CRUST? Curious minds want to know! Sincerely Don Merchant IMCA #0960 ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web.com ? What can On Demand Business Solutions do for you? http://link.mail2web.com/Business/SharePoint From stanleygregr at yahoo.com Fri Feb 6 13:11:41 2009 From: stanleygregr at yahoo.com (greg stanley) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 10:11:41 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] FUN QUESTION for ALL to Participate In-Reply-To: <000301c98878$c5ffab90$6401a8c0@donaldmerchant> Message-ID: <606195.64294.qm@web52306.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Don: I would take the fragment with some crust. In fact a have bought some. There is something attractive about a rock from outer space in its natural state. The only exception may be a pallisite however. Greg stanley Don Merchant wrote: > Hi List. Ok you collectors out there.....you can only choose 1 of these choices and lets assume you have no cutting equipment since I know how SLICK some of you are out there!! lol .. Would you rather have a slice meteorite with NO CRUST, or would you rather have a fragment meteorite with a fair amount OF CRUST? > Curious minds want to know! > Sincerely > Don Merchant > IMCA #0960 > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From jbaxter112 at pol.net Fri Feb 6 13:44:58 2009 From: jbaxter112 at pol.net (jbaxter112 at pol.net) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 13:44:58 -0500 (EST) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - NWA 5584- New Rumuruti for sale In-Reply-To: <498BFCC8.2040300@t-online.de> References: <4989C359.3000608@t-online.de> <65110.10.250.10.1.1233868866.squirrel@webmail.medscape.com> <498BFCC8.2040300@t-online.de> Message-ID: <13254.10.250.10.1.1233945898.squirrel@webmail.medscape.com> Hello Carsten, Yes I would like it. I am not sure that I want to log into paypal from a hotel communal use computer. May I send you payment via paypal nexr week. Of course feel free to delay shipping until paid. My address on paypal is correct 1049 Woodland Avenue Menlo Park, California 94025 USA Best Wishes, Jim Baxter > Hello Jim, > > many thanks for your email and the interest! > Yes, the 1.0g. slice is available. > > If you like to buy it please pay 41 USD (shipping included) > to my PayPal adress: korneliapoloczek at gmx.de > > Please let me also know your adress for shipping. > > Best greetings, > > Carsten From mikewren at gilanet.com Fri Feb 6 13:54:02 2009 From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 11:54:02 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Info/AD: Sign Up For 50% off sale Coming Soon. Shipping delay, Still Taking offers for a little while more... Message-ID: Hello, Some info... I have been really busy helping two sets of friends in two different hospitals. I have been to Tucson 4 times in the last 8 days, going back and forth from my home. I have been able to stop at the show for about a total of 3 hours! The show is like my time between the two hospitals when ever possible. Anyway, I will be having a 50% off sale on select items in a week or two. Please understand that any money I make over the next few weeks has been set aside for my friends and their difficult medical situations. You have to sign up for this on my ebay home page sales newsletter...please do. Go to: http://stores.ebay.com/voyage-botanica-natural-history Go to the bottom left hand corner of main page to find where to sign up...pretty easy. Also, Packages are little slow going out, but about 40 are leaving today. Usually I am much faster, but I have not been able to work on these much...so I hope you understand. FINALLY, On anything that has a BEST OFFER option, please feel free to make fair -maybe even generous offers. Remember all these sales help to make a difference with several people I am working with. Thanks and Best Wishes MichaelCottingham From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Fri Feb 6 14:19:22 2009 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 06 Feb 2009 19:19:22 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] Tom's microvision pics of the NWA 4901 ungrouped achondrite Message-ID: Tom wrote: "This months article is on NWA 4901 Ungrouped Achondrite. The images are real cool! If you haven't gone there yet, please take a look!" http://www.meteorite-times.com/meteorite_frame.htm Hi Tom, Thanks a lot for sharing with us! You just gotta love those beautifully striated pigeonites and for those curious minds who want to know: These striations are exsolved augite lamellae. Those small whitish crystals in the fully cross polarized micrograph, that's probably recrystallized plagioclase. That large white crystal at center looks like an enstatite (orthopyroxene) crystal and those opaque "blebs" in the last but one micrograph, well, not sure, but that could be chromites (FeCr2O4). Best from Germany, Bernd From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Fri Feb 6 16:07:22 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 13:07:22 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars Odyssey THEMIS Images: February 2-6, 2009 Message-ID: <200902062107.NAA26067@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> MARS ODYSSEY THEMIS IMAGES February 2-6, 2009 o Landslides (Released 02 February 2009) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090202a o Windstreak (Released 03 February 2009) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090203a o Dunes (Released 04 February 2009) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090204a o Lycus Sulci (Released 05 February 2009) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090205a o Channel (Released 06 February 2009) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090206a All of the THEMIS images are archived here: http://themis.asu.edu/latest.html NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory manages the 2001 Mars Odyssey mission for NASA's Office of Space Science, Washington, D.C. The Thermal Emission Imaging System (THEMIS) was developed by Arizona State University, Tempe, in co.oration with Raytheon Santa Barbara Remote Sensing. The THEMIS investigation is led by Dr. Philip Christensen at Arizona State University. Lockheed Martin Astronautics, Denver, is the prime contractor for the Odyssey project, and developed and built the orbiter. Mission operations are conducted jointly from Lockheed Martin and from JPL, a division of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena. From bristolia at yahoo.com Fri Feb 6 16:30:31 2009 From: bristolia at yahoo.com (Paul) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 13:30:31 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Papers Dispute the Existence of Wildfires with Start of Younger Dryas Message-ID: <822197.15304.qm@web36207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Two papers, both of which dispute the occurrence of wildfires associated with a hypothetical impact event at the start of the Younger Dryas, have been recently published. They are: 1. Marlon, J. R., P. J. Bartlein, M. K. Walsh, S. P. Harrison, K. J. Brown, M. E. Edwards, P. E. Higuera, M. J. Power, R. S. Anderson, C. Briles, A. Brunelle, C. Carcaillet, M. Daniels, F. S. Hu, M. Lavoie, C. Long, T. Minckley, P. J. H. Richard, A. C. Scott, D. S. Shafer, W. Tinner, C. E. Umbanhowar, Jr., and C. Whitlock, 2009, Wildfire responses to abrupt climate change in North America. Proceedings for the National Academy of Science. Published online before print February 3, 2009, doi: 10.1073/pnas.0808212106 Abstract at: http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2009/02/03/0808212106.abstract and 2. van der Hammen, T. and B. van Geel, 2008, Charcoal in soils of the Aller?d-Younger Dryas transition were the result of natural fires and not necessarily the effect of an extra- terrestrial impact. Netherlands Journal of Geosciences (Geologie en Mijnbouw) vol. 87, no. 4, pp. 359-361. PDF file at: http://www.imep-cnrs.com/docu/charcoal.pdf http://www.njgonline.nl/publish/articles/000404/english.html A paper about the role of climatic change unrelated to extraterrestrial impacts in wildfire synchrony is: Kitzberger, T., P. M. Brown, E. K. Heyerdahl, T. W. Swetnam, and T. T. Veblen, 2007, Contingent Pacific?Atlantic Ocean influence on multicentury wildfire synchrony over western North America. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America. vol. 104 , no. 2. pp. 543-548. Abstract at: http://www.pnas.org/content/104/2/543.abstract Yours, Paul H. From majesticmeteorites at gmail.com Fri Feb 6 17:27:47 2009 From: majesticmeteorites at gmail.com (Whitney Riner) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 17:27:47 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteor Crater Panoramas Message-ID: Some panoramic images of Meteor Crater-- The bottom image is 2.11 gigapixels! http://tinyurl.com/aa9qwt From abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com Fri Feb 6 19:09:30 2009 From: abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com (Abdelaziz Alhyane) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 16:09:30 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD ; Tucson promotion Message-ID: <427043.78665.qm@web45411.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Hello List, During The Tucson show, I'm offering a promotion, good material for good prices, shipping on me. contact me off list at : alhyane_abdelaziz at yahoo.com My best Aziz From eric at meteoritewatch.com Fri Feb 6 20:32:16 2009 From: eric at meteoritewatch.com (Eric Wichman) Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2009 17:32:16 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] L LL or what? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <498CE4A0.2090909@meteoritewatch.com> Found a really cool piece in a batch of NWA. Super light colored matrix, no well defined chondrules at all, and low iron. Anyone have any material similar to this: http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1219094173&ref=name Direct link to photos: http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1219094173&ref=name#/album.php?aid=2004806&id=1219094173 The crust actually has a slight greenish tinge to it. And the piece has very low magnetism. Anyone have anything like it? Eric Wichman Meteorites USA From gmhupe at htn.net Fri Feb 6 20:45:31 2009 From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 20:45:31 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] L LL or what? References: <498CE4A0.2090909@meteoritewatch.com> Message-ID: <388BFD3B5BB9404697D08E13524DBD80@Gregor> Hi Eric, Sorry, your "facebook" account does not show the photos. If it is that cool and interesting, be sure to get it classified! Do you have any other links to your photos that do not require one to sign up for facebook or any other group? Best regards, Greg ==================== Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmhupe at htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 ==================== Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Wichman" To: Sent: Friday, February 06, 2009 8:32 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] L LL or what? > Found a really cool piece in a batch of NWA. Super light colored matrix, > no well defined chondrules at all, and low iron. > > Anyone have any material similar to this: > http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1219094173&ref=name > > Direct link to photos: > http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1219094173&ref=name#/album.php?aid=2004806&id=1219094173 > > The crust actually has a slight greenish tinge to it. And the piece has > very low magnetism. > > Anyone have anything like it? > > Eric Wichman > Meteorites USA > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From meteoritekid at gmail.com Fri Feb 6 20:55:38 2009 From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 17:55:38 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] L LL or what? In-Reply-To: <388BFD3B5BB9404697D08E13524DBD80@Gregor> References: <498CE4A0.2090909@meteoritewatch.com> <388BFD3B5BB9404697D08E13524DBD80@Gregor> Message-ID: <93aaac890902061755hc3b4e00k83c8474760be6986@mail.gmail.com> Hello Eric, Looks like a very interesting stone - I would guess along your lines - L or LL6...as to which one, it's ahrd to say, though, as there aren't enough chondrules to judge (based on average size, etc). Regards, Jason On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 5:45 PM, Greg Hupe wrote: > Hi Eric, > > Sorry, your "facebook" account does not show the photos. If it is that cool > and interesting, be sure to get it classified! Do you have any other links > to your photos that do not require one to sign up for facebook or any other > group? > > Best regards, > Greg > > ==================== > Greg Hupe > The Hupe Collection > NaturesVault (eBay) > gmhupe at htn.net > www.LunarRock.com > IMCA 3163 > ==================== > Click here for my current eBay auctions: > http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Wichman" > To: > Sent: Friday, February 06, 2009 8:32 PM > Subject: [meteorite-list] L LL or what? > > >> Found a really cool piece in a batch of NWA. Super light colored matrix, >> no well defined chondrules at all, and low iron. >> >> Anyone have any material similar to this: >> http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1219094173&ref=name >> >> Direct link to photos: >> http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1219094173&ref=name#/album.php?aid=2004806&id=1219094173 >> >> The crust actually has a slight greenish tinge to it. And the piece has >> very low magnetism. >> >> Anyone have anything like it? >> >> Eric Wichman >> Meteorites USA >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From eric at meteoritewatch.com Fri Feb 6 22:08:24 2009 From: eric at meteoritewatch.com (Eric Wichman) Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2009 19:08:24 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] L LL or What? (Repost) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <498CFB28.9090405@meteoritewatch.com> Sorry the link in the last email was not working. ------------------ORIGINAL EMAIL------------------ Found a really cool piece in a batch of NWA. Super light colored matrix, no well defined chondrules at all, and low iron. Anyone have any material similar to this: http://www.meteoritesusa.com/blog/595/ The crust actually has a slight greenish tinge to it. And the piece has very low magnetism. Anyone have anything like it? Eric Wichman Meteorites USA From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com Sat Feb 7 01:23:36 2009 From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 22:23:36 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] tucson day 2/ (AD) Message-ID: <479309.36978.qm@web57803.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Good evening list.Well another great day here in tucson.75 degrees and clear.I have to say first,having been to all the rooms now,with all the great meteorites to see and buy,by far mike farmers room is the best with ann blacks and geoff notkins a very close second.I added 9 new meteorites today to my cllection.I also visited the eislers room,as well as jose giggarialy,as well as?erich and sylvia haiderer.I also saw siad from morroco as well.This morning we stopped at????eduado's room and we stopped at marvin kilgore's fossil and mineral op.I saw the seychem main mass,what a beauty.I got some great pics today as well.3 of the items I got?today were to me. as the haul of the day,another slice of esquel.A 44 gram slice,also a 337 gram campo with a huge impact crater,and a 370 gram very oriented stone unclass chondrite.It was a great day.I may be done buying but I do have a couple of items forsale.I have a 34 gram slice of esquel for sale.I want $600 for it or very best offer.Pics when I get home on monday.I also have 14 fragments of the new tishka/terdaght meteorite fall.They as follows:?all fragments,2 at 11 grams,2 at 10 grams,2 at 6 grams,2 at 3 grams,2 at 4 grams,and? 4 at 2 grams.All at $2.25 a gram.I pay shipping for all of these.Well that is pretty much it for today.By far the best so far.We are about to go to the birthday bash and dinner.So tomorrow day 3.You never know what it may hold.Pics on my website on monday night.Have great evening all. ? Steve R.Arnold,Chicago! http://chicagometeorites.net/ From info at meteorites.com.au Sat Feb 7 05:58:14 2009 From: info at meteorites.com.au (Jeff Kuyken) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 21:58:14 +1100 Subject: [meteorite-list] L LL or what? In-Reply-To: <498CE4A0.2090909@meteoritewatch.com> References: <498CE4A0.2090909@meteoritewatch.com> Message-ID: <1C21756D18614E4C9A80006827BD0D60@JeffPC> Hi Eric, Very cool stone! My initial instinct says LL5 but there's a reasonable amount of metal so maybe an L-chondrite is not out of the question. The crust looks great too! Cheers, Jeff ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Wichman" To: Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2009 12:32 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] L LL or what? > Found a really cool piece in a batch of NWA. Super light colored matrix, > no well defined chondrules at all, and low iron. > > Anyone have any material similar to this: > http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1219094173&ref=name > > Direct link to photos: > http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1219094173&ref=name#/album.php?aid=2004806&id=1219094173 > > The crust actually has a slight greenish tinge to it. And the piece has > very low magnetism. > > Anyone have anything like it? > > Eric Wichman > Meteorites USA > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From michael at spacerocksinc.com Sat Feb 7 06:58:03 2009 From: michael at spacerocksinc.com (Michael Johnson) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 03:58:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - February 7, 2009 Message-ID: <4137292.1009021234007883921.JavaMail.root@mbs5.homesteadmail.com> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/February_7_2009.html From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com Sat Feb 7 08:19:46 2009 From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 05:19:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Looking for a sample of a historic fall - Ensisheim Message-ID: <988974.20702.qm@web45610.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> I am looking to pick up a sample of Ensisheim. I have the money on hand. If you have a sample for sale, please contact me off list with price, pictures and provenance. Thanks, Greg C. From info at mcomemeteorite.it Sat Feb 7 10:24:55 2009 From: info at mcomemeteorite.it (M come Meteorite Meteorites) Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2009 16:24:55 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Looking for a sample of a historic fall - Ensisheim Message-ID: <498da7c7.32d.4912.1695654901@webmaildh3.aruba.it> you have ask to me for 2 times if my Ensisheim piece is available and I have answer yes but you not have give to me any answer....and now you ask here matteo ----- Original Message ----- Da : Greg Catterton A : meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Oggetto : [meteorite-list] Looking for a sample of a historic fall - Ensisheim Data : Sat, 7 Feb 2009 05:19:46 -0800 (PST) > I am looking to pick up a sample of Ensisheim. I have the > money on hand. If you have a sample for sale, please > contact me off list with price, pictures and provenance. > Thanks, > > Greg C. > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list M come Meteorite Meteoriti info at mcomemeteorite.it http://www.mcomemeteorite.it http://www.mcomemeteorite.info Mindat Gallery http://www.mindat.org/gallery-5018.html From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Sat Feb 7 10:43:40 2009 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 16:43:40 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Main mass pics of Emsland, Erxleben and Bremervoerde Message-ID: <005c01c9893a$da5ce7c0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Hello, because pictures of the main masses of these three historic meteorites are difficult to find, here they are, enjoy! http://kuerzer.de/erxemsbre Unfortunately in a sad context: the university of Goettingen, housing one of the oldest meteorite collections of the World, which can traced back to the year 1777, is forced to beg for money in public to get a few bucks from private persons, as they even can't afford to buy showcases for their specimens! That is Germany as research location! A shame. To see something like that, makes me so sad, that I really can't be silent anymore. So forgive... Cause not better at all is the situation of the famous collections in Berlin, Paris, Moscow, Vienna, Copenhagen - not to mention the Australian collections. Partially they haven't anymore the means to preserve their collections and their combined budgets for acquiring new meteorites rivals the budget of the not sooo worldwide known chamber-pot-museum in Munich. Unfortunately that is no polemics, but reality. These collections are only still growing and diversifying by - and the main material they do their research on is - the desert finds handed in by private parties and private donations of material. The group around H.Chennaoui, Schmitt, McCoy, C.Smith and J.Zipfel are at present agitating to inhibit the private traffic of the desert finds completely. These finds regarding the interesting rare and scientifically most significant types outnumber the Antarctic finds by the number of different finds and by their weights. Chennaoui and Smith spread wrong information, regarding the traffic of meteorites especially from Morocco, in telling, that the removal would be illicit, although on the Casablanca conference it was stated as a result, that there exist no laws in Morocco about ownership and export of meteorites at all. Smith continues to vilify in the media private collectors and commercial dealers, who meanwhile supply the main share of research material, as participants of a "black market" and in these press articles they are lumped together with drug and weapon dealers. (On the other hand her attitude doesn't seem to hold her off from buying from private collectors - I remember the main piece of Ivuna recently. Whether she serves the aims and purposes of the meteorite collection of BMNH or the objectives of the Paneth foundation with that conduct - I doubt). They spread the myth, that meteorites became unaffordable for science because of the private activities, although the opposite is correct and proven. - the meteorite prices of the recent 200 years are known and published, as well as the expenses for the acquisitions of meteoritic material the institutions had done throughout the centuries, as well as the costs and the find quotes of "official" scientific expeditions including those to Antarctica. If they achieve, that the traffic with meteorites, especially from the desert countries will be restricted and will be laid off solely to the universities, we will experience a similar and complete breakdown of the find numbers like it happened in Libya and in Australia. (Mrs Smith should know the situation there, on her expedition, she found two ordinary chondrites (the sum to be spent for such material on the market wouldn't have paid their plane tickets) - these two chondrites account already for 29% of all new Australian finds of the last 10 years). Nobody will search for meteorites anymore. And in consequence all research institutes, which are not involved in the Antarctic programs will face more or less the cessation of their research work. Mrs.Zipfel knows well, that the main and almost sole problem in meteoritics is the drastic underfunding of the collections and institutes, especially if compared to the neighbouring scientific subjects. She very closely experienced the shut-down of the renowned meteoritic departments of the Max-Planck-Institutes in Heidelberg and Mainz. She was responsible for the transfer of the supposedly largest meteorite collection from these institutes to the Nat.Hist.Museum in Frankfurt, where a part of it should be on permanent exhibition. With the latter undertaking she failed. I kindly would ask these ladies and gentlemen not to ignore any longer the experiences already made in countries with restrictive laws, to read and to understand the basic statistics and to learn the historic facts. Afterwards they might be able to rethink their position, whether their agenda really does serve the needs of research and science and what for consequences it would mean for the work of their colleagues. And whether it couldn't be more conducive to care for the most urgent problem in modern meteoritics, the historically unseen underfunding of the institutes, museums and universities of these very years - especially in those countries, which can't afford to take part in the expensive Antarctic campaigns. Don't let the Dark Force prevail! Martin From mail at mhmeteorites.com Sat Feb 7 10:45:51 2009 From: mail at mhmeteorites.com (mail at mhmeteorites.com) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 15:45:51 +0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] Looking for a sample of a historic fall -Ensisheim Message-ID: <525349145-1234021605-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1890086152-@bxe111.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Check my website www.mhmeteorites.com Matt ------Original Message------ From: M come Meteorite Meteorites Sender: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Sent: Feb 7, 2009 8:24 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Looking for a sample of a historic fall -Ensisheim you have ask to me for 2 times if my Ensisheim piece is available and I have answer yes but you not have give to me any answer....and now you ask here matteo ----- Original Message ----- Da : Greg Catterton A : meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Oggetto : [meteorite-list] Looking for a sample of a historic fall - Ensisheim Data : Sat, 7 Feb 2009 05:19:46 -0800 (PST) > I am looking to pick up a sample of Ensisheim. I have the > money on hand. If you have a sample for sale, please > contact me off list with price, pictures and provenance. > Thanks, > > Greg C. > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list M come Meteorite Meteoriti info at mcomemeteorite.it http://www.mcomemeteorite.it http://www.mcomemeteorite.info Mindat Gallery http://www.mindat.org/gallery-5018.html ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Matt Morgan Mile High Meteorites http://www.mhmeteorites.com P.O. Box 151293 Lakewood, CO 80215 USA From geoking at notkin.net Sat Feb 7 11:48:14 2009 From: geoking at notkin.net (Notkin) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 09:48:14 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] 2009 Harvey Award Winners Message-ID: <7C17C3E1-A82C-4571-B631-FCD5FCCFC514@notkin.net> Dear Listees: Greetings all, from sunny Tucson. It is great to see so many of you here in "The Baked Apple" for the 2009 gem show. Sincere thanks to all our friends who attended last night's Tenth Annual Birthday Bash. Meteorite enthusiasts packed Tucson's chic Centro Lounge -- a new venue for us -- and it was probably our best party ever. We had guests in attendance from France, South Africa, Russia, Morocco, Canada, the UK, Chile, and all over the USA. Congratulations to the 2009 Harvey Award winners: Nancy and Larry Lebofsky Co-editors of "Meteorite" magazine Shirley Wetmore University of Arizona Mineral Museum Dolores Hill Lunar and Planetary Lab Darryl Pitt Macovich Collection Larry Sloan Meteorite hunter extraordinaire and winner of the James D. Kriegh Memorial Award The mighty Bob Haag presented Shirley Wetmore with a gorgeous slice of Esquel, upon her retirement from the UA Mineral Museum, Maria Haas was recognized for her tireless efforts on behalf of the IMCA, and Sonny Clary was there to sign autographs : ) It was a fun, fun night, surely to be remembered for many years. We'll post photos when we have them. The show is still in full swing, and we'll be seeing many of you tonight at Michael Blood's auction. Cheers from the Wild West, Geoff and Steve Live and direct from Tucson 2009 From eric at meteoritewatch.com Sat Feb 7 14:58:21 2009 From: eric at meteoritewatch.com (Eric Wichman) Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2009 11:58:21 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fairly odd meteorites... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <498DE7DD.4020306@meteoritewatch.com> Hi all, I cut a few more pieces. and one really looks rather interesting. It actually has some sort of oily residue "inside" or appearing to come from within the stone. No, this is not oil from my saw blade, or from my hands. This residue was within the stone, and seems to be seeping out. eeeew... Maybe alien slime, or some horendous disease for which we have no cure? :) lol Anyway it's an odd piece. There are two others in this gallery as well. An NWA 869 with a gorgeous chondrule staring out at you. and a super duper wonderfully crusted piece with the most beautiful patina you could wish for. Oh and that last piece is super thumbprinted too! http://www.meteoritesusa.com/blog/meteorite-information/new-meteorites/ Let me know what you think that oily residue is? Eric From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com Sat Feb 7 17:48:54 2009 From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 14:48:54 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] tucson day 3 Message-ID: <342242.28448.qm@web57804.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hello list and good afternoon.Well I am back at the condo for some down time until the auction.It was the best day yet for me.Meteorite wise!I got 4 new meteorites.Some more people came in to tucson today.Martin cilz,jay piatek,patrick hermann,az johhny,dave schultz,etc.It was great to see them again.I got some great pics of alot of good stuff.Tonight I will take more at the auction.Bob haag had a 80 gram individual of BUZZARD COULEE.The new canada fall.I got a great pic of it.I got 2 unclassified oriented stones.One?50 grams and the other 78 grams.Absolute stunners.I also got a 136 gram endcut of NWA 987.An L3.A?real beaut.But I saved the?best for last.I got a 215 gram fragment of TISHKA/TERDAGHT with a long streak of black fusion crust.I traded my sun glasses and?$300 for the fragment.I made the deal with "CRAZY" Mohammed.Well that is?it until a wrap-up tomorrow.I'm outta here tomorrow at 1:30 so one final update will be done from home.Also since I got my 215 gram tishka,my 37 gram fragment with crust is available at $2.25 per gram.So that is it for day 3.I will be going to auction tonight as an observer.So until tomorrow,have a great night all. ? Steve R.Arnold,Chicago! http://chicagometeorites.net/ From tett at rogers.com Sat Feb 7 17:59:11 2009 From: tett at rogers.com (tett) Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2009 17:59:11 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] tucson day 3 In-Reply-To: <342242.28448.qm@web57804.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <342242.28448.qm@web57804.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <498E123F.9020501@rogers.com> Steve, Always fun to read your reports but this was the best. "I traded my sun glasses and $300 for the fragment." I love little anecdotes like that. Brings the fun of Tuscon to us that could not make it. Cheers! Mike Tettenborn Owen Sound, Ontario steve arnold wrote: > Hello list and good afternoon. etc. etc. > http://chicagometeorites.net/ > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From yellowengine at earthlink.net Sat Feb 7 18:02:54 2009 From: yellowengine at earthlink.net (RJP) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 18:02:54 -0500 (EST) Subject: [meteorite-list] tucson day 3 Message-ID: <25480379.1234047777431.JavaMail.root@elwamui-little.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Hmmm.. I wonder how Bob got an export permit so quickly. From mail at mhmeteorites.com Sat Feb 7 18:17:20 2009 From: mail at mhmeteorites.com (mail at mhmeteorites.com) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 23:17:20 +0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] tucson day 3 Message-ID: <1235759553-1234048697-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-827981459-@bxe1027.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> I would bet there was a well known Canadian collector that brought it and it wasn't for sale. Matt ------Original Message------ From: RJP Sender: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com ReplyTo: RJP Sent: Feb 7, 2009 4:02 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] tucson day 3 Hmmm.. I wonder how Bob got an export permit so quickly. ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Matt Morgan Mile High Meteorites http://www.mhmeteorites.com P.O. Box 151293 Lakewood, CO 80215 USA From John at Cabassi.net Sat Feb 7 19:07:16 2009 From: John at Cabassi.net (John.L.Cabassi) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 16:07:16 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] tucson day 3 References: <1235759553-1234048697-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-827981459-@bxe1027.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <000f01c98981$3a8c0090$4564fea9@TITAN> Buzzard Coulee in Tucson?? Strange... I thought the wait was 6 months, even if it was brought in just for show, it still violates Canadian laws without proper permits. Cheers John ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "RJP" ; Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2009 3:17 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] tucson day 3 >I would bet there was a well known Canadian collector that brought it and >it wasn't for sale. > Matt > ------Original Message------ > From: RJP > Sender: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > ReplyTo: RJP > Sent: Feb 7, 2009 4:02 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] tucson day 3 > > Hmmm.. I wonder how Bob got an export permit so quickly. > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > Matt Morgan > Mile High Meteorites > http://www.mhmeteorites.com > P.O. Box 151293 > Lakewood, CO 80215 USA > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com Sat Feb 7 19:31:41 2009 From: rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com (Rob McCafferty) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 16:31:41 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Fairly odd meteorites... In-Reply-To: <498DE7DD.4020306@meteoritewatch.com> Message-ID: <752874.54357.qm@web55204.mail.re4.yahoo.com> The first photo on the list looked wierd and certainly looked oily in patches. As a lifelong skeptic, my answer to "what do I think" would be that this was a premature April 1st joke. Serious answers would be a: If it really is oozing something, I've no idea what it could be b: following from "a:", i'd send it to someone to find out what the goo is. Rob Mc --- On Sat, 2/7/09, Eric Wichman wrote: > From: Eric Wichman > Subject: [meteorite-list] Fairly odd meteorites... > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Saturday, February 7, 2009, 7:58 PM > Hi all, > > I cut a few more pieces. and one really looks rather > interesting. It actually has some sort of oily residue > "inside" or appearing to come from within the > stone. No, this is not oil from my saw blade, or from my > hands. This residue was within the stone, and seems to be > seeping out. eeeew... Maybe alien slime, or some horendous > disease for which we have no cure? :) lol > > Anyway it's an odd piece. There are two others in this > gallery as well. An NWA 869 with a gorgeous chondrule > staring out at you. and a super duper wonderfully crusted > piece with the most beautiful patina you could wish for. Oh > and that last piece is super thumbprinted too! > > http://www.meteoritesusa.com/blog/meteorite-information/new-meteorites/ > > Let me know what you think that oily residue is? > > Eric > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mccartney at blackbearddata.com Sat Feb 7 19:37:15 2009 From: mccartney at blackbearddata.com (McCartney Taylor) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 18:37:15 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] New Meteorite Book Out Message-ID: Finally! The complete account of the Santa Lucia, Argentina meteorite is now out. This is the meteorite fall that occurred last year in January, 2008. This book covers the fall, the field work, the mapping of the strewnfield, addresses the new export law, and tries to do all of that woven around an entertaining story. Meteorite Magazine will have a review in an issue or two. After working on it for months, the monograph is finished. Its received an ISBN and a copy is submitted to the Library of Congress. Total 68 pages, 9x6, full of great color photos. Google has scanned a few teaser pages and will have them online in 6 weeks, I believe. For those interested, this will be the first of a series of monographs. Each monograph will cover an individual meteorite falls I've launched expeditions too. Again, for non-native English speakers, a monograph is simply a book which is very focused in scope. In this case, a single meteorite. This book is catered more toward institutions and hard core collectors, it is not a simple introductory text. I took great pain to NOT have a single equation in it; it hurt me to do that. Available at Lulu Publishing, the link is here: http://www.lulu.com/content/5344624 They've priced it at $35. Softback, full color, 68pp. Because this is Tucson weekend, I'll repost this again in a week. From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Sat Feb 7 19:42:41 2009 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 16:42:41 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] tucson day 3 Message-ID: <568001.49776.qm@web110609.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> There are things called temporary export permits. I saw bob's paperwork. Michael farmer Sent from my iPhone Michael On Feb 7, 2009, at 5:07 PM, "John.L.Cabassi" wrote: Buzzard Coulee in Tucson?? Strange... I thought the wait was 6 months, even if it was brought in just for show, it still violates Canadian laws without proper permits. Cheers John ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "RJP" ; Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2009 3:17 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] tucson day 3 I would bet there was a well known Canadian collector that brought it and it wasn't for sale. Matt ------Original Message------ From: RJP Sender: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com ReplyTo: RJP Sent: Feb 7, 2009 4:02 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] tucson day 3 Hmmm.. I wonder how Bob got an export permit so quickly. ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Matt Morgan Mile High Meteorites http://www.mhmeteorites.com P.O. Box 151293 Lakewood, CO 80215 USA ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From scyphocrinites at yahoo.com Sat Feb 7 19:44:26 2009 From: scyphocrinites at yahoo.com (Malek Youssef) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 16:44:26 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD : cheap sculpted Meteorites Message-ID: <405802.2072.qm@web53311.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi List I have a big Lot of sculpted Meteorites for real cheap price , contact me off list in case you are interested. Regards M.Youssef From John at Cabassi.net Sat Feb 7 19:55:21 2009 From: John at Cabassi.net (John.L.Cabassi) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 16:55:21 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] tucson day 3 References: <568001.49776.qm@web110609.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001f01c98987$ed8582b0$4564fea9@TITAN> G'Day Mike Thanks for that. I did not realize that there was a temporary export permit available. Now I know. Thanks. Cheers John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Farmer" To: "John.L.Cabassi" Cc: Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2009 4:42 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] tucson day 3 > There are things called temporary export permits. I saw bob's paperwork. > Michael farmer > > Sent from my iPhone > Michael > > > On Feb 7, 2009, at 5:07 PM, "John.L.Cabassi" wrote: > > Buzzard Coulee in Tucson?? Strange... I thought the wait was 6 months, > even if it was brought in just for show, it still violates Canadian laws > without proper permits. > > Cheers > John > ----- Original Message ----- From: > To: "RJP" ; > > Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2009 3:17 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] tucson day 3 > > > I would bet there was a well known Canadian collector that brought it and > it wasn't for sale. > Matt > ------Original Message------ > From: RJP > Sender: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > ReplyTo: RJP > Sent: Feb 7, 2009 4:02 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] tucson day 3 > > Hmmm.. I wonder how Bob got an export permit so quickly. > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > Matt Morgan > Mile High Meteorites > http://www.mhmeteorites.com > P.O. Box 151293 > Lakewood, CO 80215 USA > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Sat Feb 7 19:57:55 2009 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 16:57:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] tucson day 3 Message-ID: <941029.34328.qm@web110613.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> No. Worries typing On phone not so easy here. It was cool to see a piece and the Canadian museum let one out to show us. Mike Sent from my iPhone Michael On Feb 7, 2009, at 5:55 PM, "John.L.Cabassi" wrote: G'Day Mike Thanks for that. I did not realize that there was a temporary export permit available. Now I know. Thanks. Cheers John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Farmer" To: "John.L.Cabassi" Cc: Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2009 4:42 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] tucson day 3 There are things called temporary export permits. I saw bob's paperwork. Michael farmer Sent from my iPhone Michael On Feb 7, 2009, at 5:07 PM, "John.L.Cabassi" wrote: Buzzard Coulee in Tucson?? Strange... I thought the wait was 6 months, even if it was brought in just for show, it still violates Canadian laws without proper permits. Cheers John ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "RJP" ; Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2009 3:17 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] tucson day 3 I would bet there was a well known Canadian collector that brought it and it wasn't for sale. Matt ------Original Message------ From: RJP Sender: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com ReplyTo: RJP Sent: Feb 7, 2009 4:02 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] tucson day 3 Hmmm.. I wonder how Bob got an export permit so quickly. ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Matt Morgan Mile High Meteorites http://www.mhmeteorites.com P.O. Box 151293 Lakewood, CO 80215 USA ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com Sat Feb 7 19:58:09 2009 From: rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com (Rob McCafferty) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 16:58:09 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Space related but OT. Ice ages Message-ID: <51428.48872.qm@web55201.mail.re4.yahoo.com> I found this and I thought it was pretty interesting. For those who don't believe in the "global warming bull" we're being fed, it's hugely affirming. It makes interesting reading anyway, particularly the statement that the earth cooled by 0.7deg last year. http://www.dailygal axy.com/my_ weblog/2008/ 06/the-sunspot- mys.html Buy a Hummer and save us from an Ice age. Ho Ha! Rob From John at Cabassi.net Sat Feb 7 20:09:30 2009 From: John at Cabassi.net (John.L.Cabassi) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 17:09:30 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] tucson day 3 References: <941029.34328.qm@web110613.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <003901c98989$ea4b2d50$4564fea9@TITAN> G'Day Mike Thanks for that reply. I'm not a cell phone person, but I can imagine your dilemma. But that's fantastic that you got to see one. It will be interesting to know your thoughts on this fall. No need to respond and enjoy yourself at the show. Just wish I could have been there. Cheers John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Farmer" To: "John.L.Cabassi" Cc: Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2009 4:57 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] tucson day 3 > No. Worries typing > On phone not so easy here. > It was cool to see a piece and the Canadian museum let one out to show us. > Mike > > Sent from my iPhone > Michael > > > On Feb 7, 2009, at 5:55 PM, "John.L.Cabassi" wrote: > > G'Day Mike > Thanks for that. I did not realize that there was a temporary export > permit available. Now I know. Thanks. > > Cheers > John > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Farmer" > > To: "John.L.Cabassi" > Cc: > Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2009 4:42 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] tucson day 3 > > > There are things called temporary export permits. I saw bob's paperwork. > Michael farmer > > Sent from my iPhone > Michael > > > On Feb 7, 2009, at 5:07 PM, "John.L.Cabassi" wrote: > > Buzzard Coulee in Tucson?? Strange... I thought the wait was 6 months, > even if it was brought in just for show, it still violates Canadian laws > without proper permits. > > Cheers > John > ----- Original Message ----- From: > To: "RJP" ; > > Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2009 3:17 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] tucson day 3 > > > I would bet there was a well known Canadian collector that brought it and > it wasn't for sale. > Matt > ------Original Message------ > From: RJP > Sender: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > ReplyTo: RJP > Sent: Feb 7, 2009 4:02 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] tucson day 3 > > Hmmm.. I wonder how Bob got an export permit so quickly. > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > Matt Morgan > Mile High Meteorites > http://www.mhmeteorites.com > P.O. Box 151293 > Lakewood, CO 80215 USA > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com Sat Feb 7 20:41:23 2009 From: michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com (Michael Gilmer) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 17:41:23 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Michael Blood Auction Results In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <240605.66720.qm@web58407.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi listees! Is there anyone reading this post who is attending the auction tonight? If so, is there some way to post the auction results to the list? Is that normally done? (This is my first time following the auction as an absentee bidder) Someone please share some photos as well. :) Good luck! MikeG ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Sat Feb 7 21:29:08 2009 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 18:29:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Fairly odd meteorites... In-Reply-To: <752874.54357.qm@web55204.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <648498.39140.qm@web55202.mail.re4.yahoo.com> peaking of disease--for what it is worth...(not saying this is but) Lawrecite Disease looks oily. Look for translucent golden brown iridescent bubbles that looks like insect eggs. Elton --- On Sat, 2/7/09, Rob McCafferty wrote: > The first photo on the list looked wierd and certainly > looked oily in patches. > As a lifelong skeptic, my answer to "what do I > think" would be that this was a premature April 1st > joke. > > Serious answers would be > > a: If it really is oozing something, I've no idea what > it could be > > b: following from "a:", i'd send it to > someone to find out what the goo is. > > Rob Mc > --- On Sat, 2/7/09, Eric Wichman wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > I cut a few more pieces. and one really looks rather > > interesting. It actually has some sort of oily residue > > "inside" or appearing to come from within the stone. No, this is not oil from my saw blade, or from my > > hands. This residue was within the stone, and seems tobe seeping out. eeeew... Maybe alien slime, or some horendous disease for which we have no cure? :) lol From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Sat Feb 7 21:33:45 2009 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 18:33:45 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Fairly odd meteorites...OOps In-Reply-To: <648498.39140.qm@web55202.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <770597.28781.qm@web55203.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Make that Lawrencite with an "n". Elton From info at meteorites.com.au Sat Feb 7 21:43:27 2009 From: info at meteorites.com.au (Jeff Kuyken) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 13:43:27 +1100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Monthly Favourite - December 2008 Message-ID: <82C27E5E87DA4BB1920F7B0635E9859A@JeffPC> http://www.meteorites.com.au/favourite/december2008.html Cheers, Jeff From roxfromspace at gmail.com Sat Feb 7 21:46:29 2009 From: roxfromspace at gmail.com (Phil Morgan) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 19:46:29 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - nice EL3 surface specimens Message-ID: <70baf8d20902071846j3906f5b0g7073795ffbffb9e1@mail.gmail.com> The list is rather slow these days so thought I'd at least entertain myself with a posting. The fossil or paleo EL 3 material paired to NWA 2828/2965 is fairly common these days but I ended up with some very nice surface specimens and don't need them all. These are much nicer than the vast majority of caliche covered stones dug up. I have: 56g wind-sculpted specimen and I found a nice "ghost" chondrule. The crystals are also fun to explore under magnification - more fun than a cut specimen in my opinion. I've only found one other like this and am keeping it. 152g with a black coating on part of it. I assume it's an oxide rind of some sort but it displays nicely. The interior looks more brecciated than layered. 170g flat and displays very large for it's size when stood up. This one shows the weathering layering very nicely and there is an inclusion/chondrule? 214g very colorful rounded stone and pulls strongly to a magnet. I didn't think this was EL3 material at first. Nice chondrule on the cut surface and shows more metal than the vast majority of this material. How about $0.08/g for the larger ones and $0.12/g for the 56g (unless combined with another) plus shipping? pictures are posted here... http://s25.photobucket.com/albums/c57/pkmorgan/EL3%20Sale/ Thanks, Phil From gmhupe at htn.net Sat Feb 7 22:08:48 2009 From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 22:08:48 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fairly odd meteorites... References: <752874.54357.qm@web55204.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0B80C8477AA847DE9FA1A7A88FA97D9E@Gregor> Ghost Busters!! Best regards, Greg ==================== Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmhupe at htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 ==================== Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob McCafferty" To: "Eric Wichman" ; Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2009 7:31 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fairly odd meteorites... > > The first photo on the list looked wierd and certainly looked oily in > patches. > As a lifelong skeptic, my answer to "what do I think" would be that this > was a premature April 1st joke. > > Serious answers would be > > a: If it really is oozing something, I've no idea what it could be > > b: following from "a:", i'd send it to someone to find out what the goo > is. > > Rob Mc > > > > > --- On Sat, 2/7/09, Eric Wichman wrote: > >> From: Eric Wichman >> Subject: [meteorite-list] Fairly odd meteorites... >> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> Date: Saturday, February 7, 2009, 7:58 PM >> Hi all, >> >> I cut a few more pieces. and one really looks rather >> interesting. It actually has some sort of oily residue >> "inside" or appearing to come from within the >> stone. No, this is not oil from my saw blade, or from my >> hands. This residue was within the stone, and seems to be >> seeping out. eeeew... Maybe alien slime, or some horendous >> disease for which we have no cure? :) lol >> >> Anyway it's an odd piece. There are two others in this >> gallery as well. An NWA 869 with a gorgeous chondrule >> staring out at you. and a super duper wonderfully crusted >> piece with the most beautiful patina you could wish for. Oh >> and that last piece is super thumbprinted too! >> >> http://www.meteoritesusa.com/blog/meteorite-information/new-meteorites/ >> >> Let me know what you think that oily residue is? >> >> Eric >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com Sat Feb 7 22:10:40 2009 From: michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com (Michael Gilmer) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 19:10:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite-list Digest, Vol 65, Issue 15 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <953915.12670.qm@web58403.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi Eric, It's Andromeda Strain! Drop the specimen and run for your life! ;) Regards and clear skies, MikeG ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... --- On Sat, 2/7/09, Eric Wichman wrote: > From: Eric Wichman > Subject: [meteorite-list] Fairly odd meteorites... > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Saturday, February 7, 2009, 7:58 PM > Hi all, > > I cut a few more pieces. and one really looks rather > interesting. It actually has some sort of oily residue > "inside" or appearing to come from within the > stone. No, this is not oil from my saw blade, or from my > hands. This residue was within the stone, and seems to be > seeping out. eeeew... Maybe alien slime, or some horendous > disease for which we have no cure? :) lol > > Anyway it's an odd piece. There are two others in this > gallery as well. An NWA 869 with a gorgeous chondrule > staring out at you. and a super duper wonderfully crusted > piece with the most beautiful patina you could wish for. Oh > and that last piece is super thumbprinted too! > > http://www.meteoritesusa.com/blog/meteorite-information/new-meteorites/ > > Let me know what you think that oily residue is? > > Eric From michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com Sat Feb 7 22:21:37 2009 From: michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com (Michael Gilmer) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 19:21:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Main mass pics of Emsland, Erxleben and Bremervoerde In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <151305.11530.qm@web58407.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi Martin, Thank you for sharing this depressing account. It pains me to hear of meteorites being neglected, but I was unaware this institutional neglect was so widespread. I recall hearing recently about one of the main masses of Cape York sitting outside in the open without any protection from the elements in Denmark. (I think that is what I heard, if I am wrong, someone please correct me) As a collector who treats his specimens reverence, it makes me feel good about what I am doing when I hear about supposedly-respected institutions and universities who are either neglecting their meteorites (at best) or abusing them at worst. I know many of these institutions still frown on private collectors because we represent competition for specimens and they accuse us of hurting science by hoarding meteorites. I disagree with that notion, as you said before, because much new science has come out of the hot desert finds - many of which were brought to light by private dealers and hunters for profit. I think that properly- educated collectors, acting in tandem with competent institutions, can advance the science of meteoritics. Just think of all of the rare types sitting unclassified in collection cabinets across the world! Rather than hindering each other, collector and scientist should work together towards a common goal - learning more about our universe and appreciating one of nature's finest works of art. For the cash-strapped museums and universities I say : If any museum or university has a big meteorite that is too expensive to properly maintain, please send it to me and I will ensure that it gets proper care and conservation. Better yet, just email me and I will arrange shipment at my expense to deliver the specimen to me. ;) FWIW, I think what Martin and Stefan are doing is a perfect example of how the private collector/dealer can contribute overall to the field of meteoritics. Just look at how many interesting planetary meteorites the Heirs have had classified. Well done. :) Best regards and clear skies, MikeG ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 16:43:40 +0100 > From: "Martin Altmann" > > Subject: [meteorite-list] Main mass pics of > Emsland, Erxleben and > Bremervoerde > To: > Message-ID: > <005c01c9893a$da5ce7c0$177f2a59 at name86d88d87e2> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Hello, > > because pictures of the main masses of these three historic > meteorites are > difficult to find, > here they are, enjoy! > http://kuerzer.de/erxemsbre > > Unfortunately in a sad context: > the university of Goettingen, housing one of the oldest > meteorite > collections of the World, which can traced back to the year > 1777, > is forced to beg for money in public to get a few bucks > from private > persons, > as they even can't afford to buy showcases for their > specimens! > > That is Germany as research location! > A shame. > > To see something like that, makes me so sad, that I really > can't be silent > anymore. > So forgive... > > Cause not better at all is the situation of the famous > collections in > Berlin, Paris, Moscow, Vienna, Copenhagen - not to mention > the Australian > collections. > > Partially they haven't anymore the means to preserve > their collections > and their combined budgets for acquiring new meteorites > rivals the budget of > the not sooo worldwide known chamber-pot-museum in Munich. > Unfortunately that is no polemics, but reality. > > These collections are only still growing and diversifying > by - and the main > material they do their research on is - the desert finds > handed in by > private parties and private donations of material. > > The group around H.Chennaoui, Schmitt, McCoy, C.Smith and > J.Zipfel > are at present agitating to inhibit the private traffic of > the desert finds > completely. > These finds regarding the interesting rare and > scientifically most > significant types outnumber the Antarctic finds by the > number of different > finds and by their weights. > > Chennaoui and Smith spread wrong information, regarding the > traffic of > meteorites especially from Morocco, in telling, that the > removal would be > illicit, although on the Casablanca conference it was > stated as a result, > that there exist no laws in Morocco about ownership and > export of meteorites > at all. > Smith continues to vilify in the media private collectors > and commercial > dealers, who meanwhile supply the main share of research > material, > as participants of a "black market" and in these > press articles they are > lumped together with drug and weapon dealers. > > (On the other hand her attitude doesn't seem to hold > her off from buying > from private collectors - I remember the main piece of > Ivuna recently. > Whether she serves the aims and purposes of the meteorite > collection of BMNH > or the objectives of the Paneth foundation with that > conduct - I doubt). > > They spread the myth, that meteorites became unaffordable > for science > because of the private activities, although the opposite is > correct > and proven. > - the meteorite prices of the recent 200 years are known > and published, > as well as the expenses for the acquisitions of meteoritic > material the > institutions had done throughout the centuries, > as well as the costs and the find quotes of > "official" scientific > expeditions including those to Antarctica. > > If they achieve, that the traffic with meteorites, > especially from the > desert countries will be restricted and will be laid off > solely to the > universities, > we will experience a similar and complete breakdown of the > find numbers like > it happened in Libya and in Australia. > > (Mrs Smith should know the situation there, on her > expedition, she found two > ordinary chondrites (the sum to be spent for such material > on the market > wouldn't have paid their plane tickets) - these two > chondrites account > already for 29% of all new Australian finds of the last 10 > years). > > Nobody will search for meteorites anymore. > > And in consequence all research institutes, which are not > involved in the > Antarctic programs will face more or less the cessation of > their research > work. > > Mrs.Zipfel knows well, that the main and almost sole > problem in meteoritics > is the drastic underfunding of the collections and > institutes, especially if > compared to the neighbouring scientific subjects. > > She very closely experienced the shut-down of the renowned > meteoritic > departments of the Max-Planck-Institutes in Heidelberg and > Mainz. > She was responsible for the transfer of the supposedly > largest meteorite > collection from these institutes to the Nat.Hist.Museum in > Frankfurt, where > a part of it should be on permanent exhibition. With the > latter undertaking > she failed. > > I kindly would ask these ladies and gentlemen not to ignore > any longer the > experiences already made in countries with restrictive > laws, to read and to > understand the basic statistics and to learn the historic > facts. > Afterwards they might be able to rethink their position, > > whether their agenda really does serve the needs of > research and science > and what for consequences it would mean for the work of > their colleagues. > > And whether it couldn't be more conducive to care for > the most urgent > problem in modern meteoritics, the historically unseen > underfunding of the > institutes, museums and universities of these very years - > especially in > those countries, which can't afford to take part in the > expensive Antarctic > campaigns. > > Don't let the Dark Force prevail! > Martin > > > > From eric at meteoritewatch.com Sat Feb 7 22:30:19 2009 From: eric at meteoritewatch.com (Eric Wichman) Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2009 19:30:19 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fairly odd meteorites... Message-ID: <498E51CB.6090905@meteoritewatch.com> Thanks guys! Ghost Busters is right... I don't think it's ectoplasm though.. ;D lol I don't know what is going on with this piece. Comments can be posted here as well: http://www.meteoritesusa.com/blog/meteorite-photos/oily-meteorite/ If you haven't seen the photos yet, the gallery is here: http://www.meteoritesusa.com/blog/meteorite-information/new-meteorites/ Check it... opinions? Eric Ghost Busters!! Best regards, Greg ==================== Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmhupe at htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 ==================== Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob McCafferty" To: "Eric Wichman" ; Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2009 7:31 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fairly odd meteorites... > > The first photo on the list looked wierd and certainly looked oily in > patches. > As a lifelong skeptic, my answer to "what do I think" would be that > this was a premature April 1st joke. > > Serious answers would be > > a: If it really is oozing something, I've no idea what it could be > > b: following from "a:", i'd send it to someone to find out what the > goo is. > > Rob Mc > > > > > --- On Sat, 2/7/09, Eric Wichman wrote: > >> From: Eric Wichman >> Subject: [meteorite-list] Fairly odd meteorites... >> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> Date: Saturday, February 7, 2009, 7:58 PM >> Hi all, >> >> I cut a few more pieces. and one really looks rather >> interesting. It actually has some sort of oily residue >> "inside" or appearing to come from within the >> stone. No, this is not oil from my saw blade, or from my >> hands. This residue was within the stone, and seems to be >> seeping out. eeeew... Maybe alien slime, or some horendous >> disease for which we have no cure? :) lol >> >> Anyway it's an odd piece. There are two others in this >> gallery as well. An NWA 869 with a gorgeous chondrule >> staring out at you. and a super duper wonderfully crusted >> piece with the most beautiful patina you could wish for. Oh >> and that last piece is super thumbprinted too! >> >> http://www.meteoritesusa.com/blog/meteorite-information/new-meteorites/ >> >> Let me know what you think that oily residue is? >> >> Eric >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA http://www.meteoritesusa.com 904-236-5394 From roxfromspace at gmail.com Sat Feb 7 22:33:24 2009 From: roxfromspace at gmail.com (Phil Morgan) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 20:33:24 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] impact melt and metal spheres Message-ID: <70baf8d20902071933k1a4276a0j5f4e0bf75a443529@mail.gmail.com> I cut what I believe to be an unclassified impact melt a while back and didn't think it had much metal other than a single mm-sized blob and some very fine threads. I polished it up well the other day and found many tiny perfect spheres of metal under 20x magnification. I don't have much to compare it to and am curious as to whether most/all impact melts contain these. Are there various degrees of melting that have been documented? There is a poor picture of a slice here: http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c57/pkmorgan/Sell_Trade/chondrites-1.jpg There is always something new to discover about these visitors from space. Thanks in advance and regards, Phil From nightsky55 at gmail.com Sat Feb 7 22:50:58 2009 From: nightsky55 at gmail.com (Bob King) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 21:50:58 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fairly odd meteorites / my guess Message-ID: <99c1e91a0902071950v6d71f353h269a67eef0bcbf84@mail.gmail.com> Hi Eric, If it really isn't oil that somehow leaked into the interior and was soaked up by the matrix, my suspicion is ordinary water. I have a few chondrites that no matter what I do, they weep water. I've seen it on the interior and exterior of ordinary chondrites. Your specimen looks heavily weathered where it's moist so that's my guess. It's possible that the water in the meteorite became mixed or dissolved something inside (salts possibly?) which is why it may seem like oil. My best guess. Bob On 2/7/09, Eric Wichman wrote: > Thanks guys! > > Ghost Busters is right... I don't think it's ectoplasm though.. ;D lol > > I don't know what is going on with this piece. > > Comments can be posted here as well: > http://www.meteoritesusa.com/blog/meteorite-photos/oily-meteorite/ > > If you haven't seen the photos yet, the gallery is here: > http://www.meteoritesusa.com/blog/meteorite-information/new-meteorites/ > > Check it... opinions? > > Eric > > > > Ghost Busters!! > > Best regards, > Greg > > ==================== > Greg Hupe > The Hupe Collection > NaturesVault (eBay) > gmhupe at htn.net > www.LunarRock.com > IMCA 3163 > ==================== > Click here for my current eBay auctions: > http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob McCafferty" > > To: "Eric Wichman" ; > > Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2009 7:31 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fairly odd meteorites... > > > > > > The first photo on the list looked wierd and certainly looked oily in > patches. > > As a lifelong skeptic, my answer to "what do I think" would be that this > was a premature April 1st joke. > > > > Serious answers would be > > > > a: If it really is oozing something, I've no idea what it could be > > > > b: following from "a:", i'd send it to someone to find out what the goo > is. > > > > Rob Mc > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 2/7/09, Eric Wichman wrote: > > > > > > > From: Eric Wichman > > > Subject: [meteorite-list] Fairly odd meteorites... > > > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > Date: Saturday, February 7, 2009, 7:58 PM > > > Hi all, > > > > > > I cut a few more pieces. and one really looks rather > > > interesting. It actually has some sort of oily residue > > > "inside" or appearing to come from within the > > > stone. No, this is not oil from my saw blade, or from my > > > hands. This residue was within the stone, and seems to be > > > seeping out. eeeew... Maybe alien slime, or some horendous > > > disease for which we have no cure? :) lol > > > > > > Anyway it's an odd piece. There are two others in this > > > gallery as well. An NWA 869 with a gorgeous chondrule > > > staring out at you. and a super duper wonderfully crusted > > > piece with the most beautiful patina you could wish for. Oh > > > and that last piece is super thumbprinted too! > > > > > > > http://www.meteoritesusa.com/blog/meteorite-information/new-meteorites/ > > > > > > Let me know what you think that oily residue is? > > > > > > Eric > > > ______________________________________________ > > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > > -- > Regards, > Eric Wichman > Meteorites USA > http://www.meteoritesusa.com > 904-236-5394 > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com Sun Feb 8 00:00:40 2009 From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 21:00:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] tuscon day 3/ blood auction update Message-ID: <654775.95840.qm@web57807.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi all.We just got back from the blood auction.We left after #70 auction.Here are a few highlights.The big brenham slice went for $1600,the 676 gram slice of richfield went to my buddy bob c. for $1400,I got the karon,texas for $200 and the 88 gram imilac went for I believe $1600.If not correct me please and update this for me.These are some of the big item highlights.Jose came in with?8 items at the last minute bringing the auctions to over 90.There was not an empty seat.Alot of the smaller items were selling in the?$50 to $100 range.I also wanted to clear up one thing about the buzz coulee piece.Bob haag got a permit export to bring to the show to show off the piece and that is all.It will be going right back to canada.I just wanted to update on the auction so that is it. ? Steve R.Arnold,Chicago! http://chicagometeorites.net/ From Carsten.Giessler at t-online.de Sun Feb 8 02:47:47 2009 From: Carsten.Giessler at t-online.de (Carsten Giessler) Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2009 08:47:47 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Ebay Auctions Ending Today! Cool Stuff! Message-ID: <498E8E23.1050403@t-online.de> Dear List, i have a couple of auctions ending today, for example NWA 4723, L3.8, Big 104g. slice NWA 4680, Brecciated Chondrite, Fresh W1, Halfstone 47g. NWA 4727, Strongly shocked Chondrite, Halfstone, 80g. Also there are nice type 3's, Rumuruti, a Capot Rey with a nice melt-vein, Carbonaceous CV3 and Co..... and much more! Please see all the auctions here: http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/gipometeorites_W0QQLHQ5fAuctionZ1QQ_trksidZp3911Q2ec0Q2em301?_trksid=p3911.c0.m301 Many thanks for viewing, Carsten From arizonakeith at cox.net Sun Feb 8 02:51:35 2009 From: arizonakeith at cox.net (Arizona Keith) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 00:51:35 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Michael Blood Auction Results References: <240605.66720.qm@web58407.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7514D91707864FE6998A12B3828630DB@Keith2> Hello List Just got back from Bloods Auction, left early before the end. Michael had great help, thing's move smoothly. We had a great time, many great deals. Here are some photo, http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/Tucson2009c1012.jpg http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/Tucson2009a1051.jpg http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/Tucson2009c1034.jpg http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/Tucson2009a1037.jpg http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/Tucson2009a1066.jpg http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/Tucson2009a1090.jpg http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/Tucson2009c1094.jpg http://www.geocities.com/arizonaviking2000/Tucson2009c1107.jpg Hope you all enjoyed them. Keith Chandler, AZ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Gilmer" To: Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2009 6:41 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Michael Blood Auction Results > Hi listees! > > Is there anyone reading this post who is attending the auction > tonight? If so, is there some way to post the auction results > to the list? Is that normally done? (This is my first time > following the auction as an absentee bidder) > > Someone please share some photos as well. :) > > Good luck! > > MikeG > > > ......................................................... > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com > .......................................................... > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From wadi at autograf.pl Sun Feb 8 07:45:23 2009 From: wadi at autograf.pl (wadi at autograf.pl) Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2009 13:45:23 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] test - delete In-Reply-To: 479309.36978.qm@web57803.mail.re3.yahoo.com Message-ID: test Wadi From michael at spacerocksinc.com Sun Feb 8 08:09:53 2009 From: michael at spacerocksinc.com (Michael Johnson) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 05:09:53 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - February 8, 2009 Message-ID: <14357441.2601234098593887.JavaMail.root@mbs5.homesteadmail.com> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/February_8_2009.html From valparint at aol.com Sun Feb 8 09:29:02 2009 From: valparint at aol.com (valparint at aol.com) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 07:29:02 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD-Field Guide to Meteors and Meteorites Message-ID: Howdy Listoids. If you are looking for a copy of "Field Guide to Meteors and Meteorites" by Lawrence A. Chitwood, Lawrence Chitwood, and O. Richard Norton, check out http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=160313980637. Currently at 99 cents with 3 days to go. Thanks for looking. Paul Swartz From axelsson at acc.umu.se Sun Feb 8 10:02:08 2009 From: axelsson at acc.umu.se (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=F6ran_Axelsson?=) Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2009 16:02:08 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Michael Blood Auction Results In-Reply-To: <240605.66720.qm@web58407.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <240605.66720.qm@web58407.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <498EF3F0.7080104@acc.umu.se> Hi! I'm also interested in the prices realised. Last year Michael made the result public during februari, I hope he will repeat it for all of us that couldn't go to the auction. I would rather be there than at home right now. It's been snowing 50 cm of snow in the last five days. .. okay, I'll admit that I'm especially interested in the prices of lots 1, 2, 3, 63 and 69. Anyone knows? :-) /G?ran Michael Gilmer wrote: > Hi listees! > > Is there anyone reading this post who is attending the auction > tonight? If so, is there some way to post the auction results > to the list? Is that normally done? (This is my first time > following the auction as an absentee bidder) > > Someone please share some photos as well. :) > > Good luck! > > MikeG > > > ......................................................... > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com > .......................................................... > > From mikewren at gilanet.com Sun Feb 8 10:31:18 2009 From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 08:31:18 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: A 50% Off Sale-Today Only! Message-ID: <5F426B51-7B5B-4786-9E80-5F82352E6D52@gilanet.com> Hello, I was not going to do this on the list, but I am not sure if my private mailing all went out! So here it is- a 50% off sale today only! Please enjoy! Remember-All these proceeds from this sale go to help my friends, Kim and her son Cyrus. Cyrus is scheduled for surgery on Weds. He is only seven years old and he is having a tumor removed from his brain. go to: http://stores.ebay.com/voyage-botanica-natural-history Thanks and Best Wishes Michael Cottingham From entropydave at ntlworld.com Sun Feb 8 10:52:24 2009 From: entropydave at ntlworld.com (Dave Harris) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 15:52:24 -0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD -eBay space rocks - Martian & Lunar Message-ID: Hi, Here are some rather cool micros for sale....! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270341758411 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270341751995 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270341747670 thanks for your continued patience! dave IMCA #0092 Sec.BIMS. www.bimsociety.org From yellowengine at earthlink.net Sun Feb 8 11:46:25 2009 From: yellowengine at earthlink.net (RJP) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 10:46:25 -0600 (GMT-06:00) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Allende - Large Slice Message-ID: <24955275.1234111586086.JavaMail.root@mswamui-blood.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Good Morning List, In celebration of Allende's 40th birthday: if anyone in seriously interested in acquiring a large slice from this important locality, please contact me off-list. Once again, serious potential buyers only, please. If you have ~$2500 available, I will be able to hook you up with a great piece, guaranteed. Saludos, Ryan Pawelski From rsvp321 at hotmail.com Sun Feb 8 12:08:28 2009 From: rsvp321 at hotmail.com (Pete Pete) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 12:08:28 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fairly odd meteorites... In-Reply-To: <498E51CB.6090905@meteoritewatch.com> References: <498E51CB.6090905@meteoritewatch.com> Message-ID: Hi, Greg, and List, I would put my money on terrestrial contamination, probably at your purchase source. I've received a couple of irons that were packed in copious amounts of what I think was axle grease! Cheers, Pete ---------------------------------------- > Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 19:30:19 -0800 > From: eric at meteoritewatch.com > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fairly odd meteorites... > > Thanks guys! > > Ghost Busters is right... I don't think it's ectoplasm though.. ;D lol > > I don't know what is going on with this piece. > > Comments can be posted here as well: > http://www.meteoritesusa.com/blog/meteorite-photos/oily-meteorite/ > > If you haven't seen the photos yet, the gallery is here: > http://www.meteoritesusa.com/blog/meteorite-information/new-meteorites/ > > Check it... opinions? > > Eric > > > > Ghost Busters!! > > Best regards, > Greg > > ==================== > Greg Hupe > The Hupe Collection > NaturesVault (eBay) > gmhupe at htn.net > www.LunarRock.com > IMCA 3163 > ==================== > Click here for my current eBay auctions: > http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob McCafferty" > > To: "Eric Wichman" ; > > Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2009 7:31 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fairly odd meteorites... > > >> >> The first photo on the list looked wierd and certainly looked oily in >> patches. >> As a lifelong skeptic, my answer to "what do I think" would be that >> this was a premature April 1st joke. >> >> Serious answers would be >> >> a: If it really is oozing something, I've no idea what it could be >> >> b: following from "a:", i'd send it to someone to find out what the >> goo is. >> >> Rob Mc >> >> >> >> >> --- On Sat, 2/7/09, Eric Wichman wrote: >> >>> From: Eric Wichman >>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Fairly odd meteorites... >>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> Date: Saturday, February 7, 2009, 7:58 PM >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I cut a few more pieces. and one really looks rather >>> interesting. It actually has some sort of oily residue >>> "inside" or appearing to come from within the >>> stone. No, this is not oil from my saw blade, or from my >>> hands. This residue was within the stone, and seems to be >>> seeping out. eeeew... Maybe alien slime, or some horendous >>> disease for which we have no cure? :) lol >>> >>> Anyway it's an odd piece. There are two others in this >>> gallery as well. An NWA 869 with a gorgeous chondrule >>> staring out at you. and a super duper wonderfully crusted >>> piece with the most beautiful patina you could wish for. Oh >>> and that last piece is super thumbprinted too! >>> >>> http://www.meteoritesusa.com/blog/meteorite-information/new-meteorites/ >>> >>> Let me know what you think that oily residue is? >>> >>> Eric >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > > > -- > Regards, > Eric Wichman > Meteorites USA > http://www.meteoritesusa.com > 904-236-5394 > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _________________________________________________________________ How fun is this? IMing with Windows Live Messenger just got better. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/messenger.aspx From epgrondine at yahoo.com Sun Feb 8 12:09:40 2009 From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 09:09:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Public funding Message-ID: <13638.23624.qm@web36905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi Martin - The strange part in all of this is the disconnect between the space programs and meteorite studies. For example, hundreds of millions will be spent on Mars sample return, even several millions of dollars per year just for studies, while Mars samples already here remain in the field. In regards to how this applies to dealing with the Earth impact hazard, well you already know my thinking. E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas From delraygoddess at yahoo.com Sun Feb 8 12:17:20 2009 From: delraygoddess at yahoo.com (Leigh Anne DelRay) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 09:17:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Photos: IMCA Dinner, Party, Blood Auction Message-ID: <63691.30648.qm@web37105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Here are a few photos for those of you who were not here, or couldn't make it to some of the festivities. Thursday night at La Fuente, the IMCA Dinner: http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/dinner1.jpg http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/dinner2.jpg http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/dinner3.jpg Bill won the drawing... http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/dinner4.jpg http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/dinner5.jpg http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/dinner6.jpg David won the flowers.. http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/dinner7.jpg Fritz didn't win anything really, but I think he thought he did... http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/dinner8.jpg Friday night was the famous Meteor Mayhem Birthday Bash and 2009 Harvey Awards.. http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/party1.jpg http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/party2.jpg http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/party3.jpg http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/party4.jpg http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/party5.jpg http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/party6.jpg http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/party7.jpg http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/party8.jpg http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/party9.jpg http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/party10.jpg http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/party11.jpg And Saturday night was the Micheal Blood Auction: http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/auction1.jpg http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/auction2.jpg http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/auction3.jpg http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/auction4.jpg http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/auction5.jpg http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/auction6.jpg http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/auction7.jpg http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/auction8.jpg http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/auction9.jpg http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/auction11.jpg http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/auction12.jpg http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/auction13.jpg http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/auction14.jpg http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/auction15.jpg http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/auction16.jpg http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/auction17.jpg this was me spilling cake on the display case.. oops.. http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/spill.jpg And Twink made her famous Gold Basin cake, and here are a few of the winners: http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/winner1.jpg http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/winner2.jpg http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/winner3.jpg and unfortunately, this person was not a winner... http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/not-a-winner.jpg I hope you enjoyed these. Have a great day. ~Leigh Anne DelRay Callistoimages.com From eric at meteoritewatch.com Sun Feb 8 12:23:28 2009 From: eric at meteoritewatch.com (Eric Wichman) Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2009 09:23:28 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fairly odd meteorites... In-Reply-To: References: <498E51CB.6090905@meteoritewatch.com> Message-ID: <498F1510.50200@meteoritewatch.com> Pete, I might be inclined to agree with that... It just seems weird. The exterior of the stone gave no indication that there might be some contamination. I might also be water, but I doubt that as the residue has an oily "feel" to it. It's slick to the touch on your fingers. I'm going to drop a small chondrite in some oil and let it sit for a while then cut it and see if I can duplicate this. If not then it might prove it's not contamination at all but some great alien primordial ooze and we have just infected our planet with an X-files type of contagion. LOL ;) Regardless of that, the piece is still very nice. I love the look of the stone and it's got lots of iron. Very cool piece. Eric Pete Pete wrote: > Hi, Greg, and List, > > I would put my money on terrestrial contamination, probably at your purchase source. > > I've received a couple of irons that were packed in copious amounts of what I think was axle grease! > > Cheers, > Pete > > > > ---------------------------------------- > >> Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 19:30:19 -0800 >> From: eric at meteoritewatch.com >> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fairly odd meteorites... >> >> Thanks guys! >> >> Ghost Busters is right... I don't think it's ectoplasm though.. ;D lol >> >> I don't know what is going on with this piece. >> >> Comments can be posted here as well: >> http://www.meteoritesusa.com/blog/meteorite-photos/oily-meteorite/ >> >> If you haven't seen the photos yet, the gallery is here: >> http://www.meteoritesusa.com/blog/meteorite-information/new-meteorites/ >> >> Check it... opinions? >> >> Eric >> >> >> >> Ghost Busters!! >> >> Best regards, >> Greg >> >> ==================== >> Greg Hupe >> The Hupe Collection >> NaturesVault (eBay) >> gmhupe at htn.net >> www.LunarRock.com >> IMCA 3163 >> ==================== >> Click here for my current eBay auctions: >> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob McCafferty" >> >> To: "Eric Wichman" ; >> >> Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2009 7:31 PM >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fairly odd meteorites... >> >> >> >>> The first photo on the list looked wierd and certainly looked oily in >>> patches. >>> As a lifelong skeptic, my answer to "what do I think" would be that >>> this was a premature April 1st joke. >>> >>> Serious answers would be >>> >>> a: If it really is oozing something, I've no idea what it could be >>> >>> b: following from "a:", i'd send it to someone to find out what the >>> goo is. >>> >>> Rob Mc >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> --- On Sat, 2/7/09, Eric Wichman wrote: >>> >>> >>>> From: Eric Wichman >>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Fairly odd meteorites... >>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>> Date: Saturday, February 7, 2009, 7:58 PM >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> I cut a few more pieces. and one really looks rather >>>> interesting. It actually has some sort of oily residue >>>> "inside" or appearing to come from within the >>>> stone. No, this is not oil from my saw blade, or from my >>>> hands. This residue was within the stone, and seems to be >>>> seeping out. eeeew... Maybe alien slime, or some horendous >>>> disease for which we have no cure? :) lol >>>> >>>> Anyway it's an odd piece. There are two others in this >>>> gallery as well. An NWA 869 with a gorgeous chondrule >>>> staring out at you. and a super duper wonderfully crusted >>>> piece with the most beautiful patina you could wish for. Oh >>>> and that last piece is super thumbprinted too! >>>> >>>> http://www.meteoritesusa.com/blog/meteorite-information/new-meteorites/ >>>> >>>> Let me know what you think that oily residue is? >>>> >>>> Eric >>>> ______________________________________________ >>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>> >>> >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> >>> >> -- >> Regards, >> Eric Wichman >> Meteorites USA >> http://www.meteoritesusa.com >> 904-236-5394 >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > _________________________________________________________________ > How fun is this? IMing with Windows Live Messenger just got better. > http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/messenger.aspx > -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA http://www.meteoritesusa.com 904-236-5394 From majbaermann at web.de Sun Feb 8 12:38:23 2009 From: majbaermann at web.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Matthias_B=E4rmann?=) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 18:38:23 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: Photos: IMCA Dinner, Party, Blood Auction Message-ID: Thank you so much, Leigh Anne & and all other "providers", for photos, videos & reports from Tucson, allowing us European colleagues to participate at least from afar - have a good time there all together! Best regards, Matthias Baermann ----- Original Message ----- From: "Leigh Anne DelRay" To: Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2009 6:17 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Photos: IMCA Dinner, Party, Blood Auction > > > Here are a few photos for those of you who were not here, or couldn't make > it to some of the festivities. > > Thursday night at La Fuente, the IMCA Dinner: > > http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/dinner1.jpg > http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/dinner2.jpg > http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/dinner3.jpg > Bill won the drawing... > http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/dinner4.jpg > http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/dinner5.jpg > http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/dinner6.jpg > David won the flowers.. > http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/dinner7.jpg > Fritz didn't win anything really, but I think he thought he did... > http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/dinner8.jpg > > Friday night was the famous Meteor Mayhem Birthday Bash and 2009 Harvey > Awards.. > > http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/party1.jpg > http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/party2.jpg > http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/party3.jpg > http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/party4.jpg > http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/party5.jpg > http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/party6.jpg > http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/party7.jpg > http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/party8.jpg > http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/party9.jpg > http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/party10.jpg > http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/party11.jpg > > And Saturday night was the Micheal Blood Auction: > > http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/auction1.jpg > http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/auction2.jpg > http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/auction3.jpg > http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/auction4.jpg > http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/auction5.jpg > http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/auction6.jpg > http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/auction7.jpg > http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/auction8.jpg > http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/auction9.jpg > http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/auction11.jpg > http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/auction12.jpg > http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/auction13.jpg > http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/auction14.jpg > http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/auction15.jpg > http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/auction16.jpg > http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/auction17.jpg > this was me spilling cake on the display case.. oops.. > http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/spill.jpg > > And Twink made her famous Gold Basin cake, and here are a few of the > winners: > > http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/winner1.jpg > http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/winner2.jpg > http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/winner3.jpg > > and unfortunately, this person was not a winner... > > http://callistodesigns.com/tucson2009/not-a-winner.jpg > > > I hope you enjoyed these. > Have a great day. > ~Leigh Anne DelRay > Callistoimages.com > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From bristolia at yahoo.com Sun Feb 8 16:57:47 2009 From: bristolia at yahoo.com (Paul) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 13:57:47 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Suspect in Tuscon Fossil and Mineral Thefts Arrested Message-ID: <130229.1287.qm@web36201.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Suspect in resort break-ins linked to fossil-mineral thefts last year By Alexis Huicochea, Arizona Daily Star, Tucson, Arizona, February 7, 2009 http://www.azstarnet.com/metro/279265 Yours, Paul H. From bristolia at yahoo.com Sun Feb 8 17:05:33 2009 From: bristolia at yahoo.com (Paul) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 14:05:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] "New Scientist" Commentary About Younger Dryas Impact Hypothesis Message-ID: <900936.88948.qm@web36202.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hecht, J., 2009, Beware Earth-shattering headlines. New Scientist. no. 2694, p. 24 (February 5, 2009) http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20126947.000-beware-earthshattering-headlines.html Yours, PAul H. From michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com Sun Feb 8 18:20:47 2009 From: michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com (Michael Gilmer) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 15:20:47 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Successful Michael Blood Auction! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <263652.9950.qm@web58408.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi listees! My spies who were in attendance at the auction say it was a great success and a great time. I want to thank those list members who have shared auction reports and photos. I heard the auction was a long one and I'm sure Mr. Blood was quite busy. :) I don't know whether I won any of the items I placed absentee bids on, but I did have a lot for sale that successfully sold. So I had fun even from a distance. Now, if I won that copy of Nininger's Find a Falling Star, then I'm even happier. ;) Best regards and clear skies, MikeG ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From mikewren at gilanet.com Sun Feb 8 19:45:27 2009 From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 17:45:27 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: A 50% Off Sale-Today Only-A Few Hours Left! Thanks To All For Helping In My Project! References: <5F426B51-7B5B-4786-9E80-5F82352E6D52@gilanet.com> Message-ID: <22BAE768-FC50-4AE6-B814-70628F9BDAA2@gilanet.com> THANKS TO ALL WHO HAVE HELPED! > > Hello, > > I was not going to do this on the list, but I am not sure if my > private mailing all went out! > > So here it is- a 50% off sale today only! Please enjoy! > > Remember-All these proceeds from this sale go to help my friends, > Kim and her son Cyrus. Cyrus is scheduled for surgery on Weds. He > is only seven years old and he is having a tumor removed from his > brain. > > go to: > > http://stores.ebay.com/voyage-botanica-natural-history > > > > Thanks and Best Wishes > > Michael Cottingham > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From rsvp321 at hotmail.com Sun Feb 8 20:11:52 2009 From: rsvp321 at hotmail.com (Pete Pete) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 20:11:52 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fairly odd meteorites... In-Reply-To: <498F1510.50200@meteoritewatch.com> References: <498E51CB.6090905@meteoritewatch.com> <498F1510.50200@meteoritewatch.com> Message-ID: Hi, Eric, I agree - it is a very cool matrix. If it were an extraterrestrial hydrocarbon inclusion, you'd think that after thousands/10's of thousands of years in the desert, bacteria, and other influences such as ultraviolet light, would have long ago broken down molecular bonds. For the record, I have no credentials; just an amateur collector with a fringe knowledge that gets me by on Trivia Pursuit... Cheers, Pete ---------------------------------------- > Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 09:23:28 -0800 > From: eric at meteoritewatch.com > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fairly odd meteorites... > > Pete, I might be inclined to agree with that... It just seems weird. The > exterior of the stone gave no indication that there might be some > contamination. I might also be water, but I doubt that as the residue > has an oily "feel" to it. It's slick to the touch on your fingers. I'm > going to drop a small chondrite in some oil and let it sit for a while > then cut it and see if I can duplicate this. If not then it might prove > it's not contamination at all but some great alien primordial ooze and > we have just infected our planet with an X-files type of contagion. LOL ;) > > Regardless of that, the piece is still very nice. I love the look of the > stone and it's got lots of iron. Very cool piece. > > Eric > > > > > Pete Pete wrote: >> Hi, Greg, and List, >> >> I would put my money on terrestrial contamination, probably at your purchase source. >> >> I've received a couple of irons that were packed in copious amounts of what I think was axle grease! >> >> Cheers, >> Pete >> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------- >> >>> Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 19:30:19 -0800 >>> From: eric at meteoritewatch.com >>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fairly odd meteorites... >>> >>> Thanks guys! >>> >>> Ghost Busters is right... I don't think it's ectoplasm though.. ;D lol >>> >>> I don't know what is going on with this piece. >>> >>> Comments can be posted here as well: >>> http://www.meteoritesusa.com/blog/meteorite-photos/oily-meteorite/ >>> >>> If you haven't seen the photos yet, the gallery is here: >>> http://www.meteoritesusa.com/blog/meteorite-information/new-meteorites/ >>> >>> Check it... opinions? >>> >>> Eric >>> >>> >>> >>> Ghost Busters!! >>> >>> Best regards, >>> Greg >>> >>> ==================== >>> Greg Hupe >>> The Hupe Collection >>> NaturesVault (eBay) >>> gmhupe at htn.net >>> www.LunarRock.com >>> IMCA 3163 >>> ==================== >>> Click here for my current eBay auctions: >>> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob McCafferty" >>> >>> To: "Eric Wichman" ; >>> >>> Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2009 7:31 PM >>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fairly odd meteorites... >>> >>> >>> >>>> The first photo on the list looked wierd and certainly looked oily in >>>> patches. >>>> As a lifelong skeptic, my answer to "what do I think" would be that >>>> this was a premature April 1st joke. >>>> >>>> Serious answers would be >>>> >>>> a: If it really is oozing something, I've no idea what it could be >>>> >>>> b: following from "a:", i'd send it to someone to find out what the >>>> goo is. >>>> >>>> Rob Mc >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> --- On Sat, 2/7/09, Eric Wichman wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> From: Eric Wichman >>>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Fairly odd meteorites... >>>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>> Date: Saturday, February 7, 2009, 7:58 PM >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>> I cut a few more pieces. and one really looks rather >>>>> interesting. It actually has some sort of oily residue >>>>> "inside" or appearing to come from within the >>>>> stone. No, this is not oil from my saw blade, or from my >>>>> hands. This residue was within the stone, and seems to be >>>>> seeping out. eeeew... Maybe alien slime, or some horendous >>>>> disease for which we have no cure? :) lol >>>>> >>>>> Anyway it's an odd piece. There are two others in this >>>>> gallery as well. An NWA 869 with a gorgeous chondrule >>>>> staring out at you. and a super duper wonderfully crusted >>>>> piece with the most beautiful patina you could wish for. Oh >>>>> and that last piece is super thumbprinted too! >>>>> >>>>> http://www.meteoritesusa.com/blog/meteorite-information/new-meteorites/ >>>>> >>>>> Let me know what you think that oily residue is? >>>>> >>>>> Eric >>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>>> >>>> >>>> ______________________________________________ >>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> Regards, >>> Eric Wichman >>> Meteorites USA >>> http://www.meteoritesusa.com >>> 904-236-5394 >>> >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> How fun is this? IMing with Windows Live Messenger just got better. >> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/messenger.aspx >> > > -- > Regards, > Eric Wichman > Meteorites USA > http://www.meteoritesusa.com > 904-236-5394 > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _________________________________________________________________ How fun is this? IMing with Windows Live Messenger just got better. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/messenger.aspx From eric at meteoritewatch.com Sun Feb 8 21:30:56 2009 From: eric at meteoritewatch.com (Eric Wichman) Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2009 18:30:56 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] 2009 Tucson Show Photos In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <498F9560.6080604@meteoritewatch.com> Just threw a few Show photos from last weekend on my site. http://www.meteoritesusa.com Take a look. More to come as I edit them... Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA 904-236-5394 From aeromadness at yahoo.com Sun Feb 8 21:38:52 2009 From: aeromadness at yahoo.com (Harry) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 18:38:52 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] 2009 Tucson Show Photos Message-ID: <154683.46217.qm@web57802.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Great photos. Makes me want to go so much more! From, Harry On Feb 8, 2009, at 6:30 PM, Eric Wichman wrote: Just threw a few Show photos from last weekend on my site. http://www.meteoritesusa.com Take a look. More to come as I edit them... Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA 904-236-5394 ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com Sun Feb 8 21:50:25 2009 From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 18:50:25 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] tucson final day/ plus much more (AD) Message-ID: <607128.31537.qm@web57808.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi all.I just got back home and am winding down now after one of my best shows ever.17 new meteorites I brought home.I picked up a 27 gram park forest slice and a 18 gram slice of portales valley from ann black in a trade.I was not quite used to the rain and cold after having it so nice for 3 day.Well I made my final rounds to say goodbye and thank?everyone for a fine show.And again a final thanks?to bob c. for putting me up again.It is always fun.I have also put up my first page of tuscon pics.I think my best ever.I also still have a 34 gram slice of esquel forsale $650 or best offer.Finally after thinking about it,I am giving away my smallest tishka pieces.They range from 2 grams (4 pieces),3 grams (2 pieces), and 4 grams (2 pieces).But forsale at $2.25 per gram are my (2) 11 gram and my (2) 10 gram pieces.The 37 gram fragment was sold.None of the tishka piece have any crust.I'll put up the other 2 picture pages tomorrow.Enjoy and let me know what you think.Have a great night and it was fun to see everyone again. Steve R.Arnold,Chicago! http://chicagometeorites.net/ From JPBrockets at aol.com Sun Feb 8 21:54:18 2009 From: JPBrockets at aol.com (JPBrockets at aol.com) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 21:54:18 EST Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Gretna, Owasco, Barilla, Sahara 99023 Message-ID: Greetings List Members: Offered are a few mico mounts. For those interested please have a look. Thanks for your time. http://collectibles.shop.ebay.com/items/Rocks-Fossils-Minerals__W0QQ_catrefZ1Q Q_flnZ1QQ_sacatZ3213QQ_sopZ14QQ_ssnZjpbrocketsQQ_trksidZp3911Q2ec0Q2em282?_trk sid=p3911.c0.m282 Juris jpbrockets at aol.com **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1218550342x1201216770/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=fe bemailfooterNO62) From eric at meteoritewatch.com Sun Feb 8 22:20:40 2009 From: eric at meteoritewatch.com (Eric Wichman) Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2009 19:20:40 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] 2009 Tucson Show Photos Cont... Message-ID: <498FA108.7000300@meteoritewatch.com> Here's more photos, Maybe these will gives you guys a good meteorite fix... http://www.meteoritesusa.com/2009-tucson-show.htm Photos from Geoff Notkin & Anne Black's Room, Bud Eisler, Some NWA, The New Fall!, and a possible Diogenite I got to hold too. Come silicated non-Campo iron, and more... Enjoy... more to come tomorrow as I get the gallery working... I should have all the photos on that page in a gallery like format... I have lots more! Sorry for the crappy quality of some of the images! ;) If anyone else has any photos they'd like to show off I'll post'em and host'em for you for free on my site. -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA http://www.meteoritesusa.com 904-236-5394 From epgrondine at yahoo.com Sun Feb 8 22:25:35 2009 From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 19:25:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Fairly odd meteorite Message-ID: <323202.98682.qm@web36906.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi Eric - Ahem, ahem... Probably the first sample of Titan ever recovered.. :P) E.P. From STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com Sun Feb 8 23:31:58 2009 From: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com (STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 23:31:58 EST Subject: [meteorite-list] Slump glass meteorite protection/display Message-ID: Hi list, A couple weeks ago there was a thread on encasing meteorites in resin. Also in this months Meteorite Times there was a nicely written article Preserving meteorite slices in home-made glass mountings, by Gregory E Carr http://www.meteorite-times.com/meteorite_frame.htm I was wondering if anyone has tried slump glass. This is the process where a sandwich of glass with a meteorite slice in the middle is heated to the point of fusing the outside glass sheets. It would drive out all moisture while completely sealing in the sample. Some material would melt at the same temperature as the glass but irons and most stonies would not. What about Olivine, would the melt point of Olivine be higher than the glass? Would this work? I have seen some real cool stuff fused into glass this way. Tom **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1218550342x1201216770/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=fe bemailfooterNO62) From edeckert at triad.rr.com Sun Feb 8 23:56:49 2009 From: edeckert at triad.rr.com (Ed Deckert) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 23:56:49 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Slump glass meteorite protection/display References: Message-ID: <01f301c98a72$d1209c90$6401a8c0@EdDeckertMain> Tom, I would be very afraid of the olivine cracking (at the least) -- and at the worst, cracking and crumbling out of the iron, leaving you with a falling-apart mess sandwiched between two layers of cracked glass. The glass is likely to crack due to the stress of the heating and cooling too. Better you should not heat it, but either use the dessicant as suggested in the article, or perhaps displace the air with a dry, inert gas like nitrogen, and sealing it in. That's my 1? cents (allowing for currency conversion fees depending on where you are in the world.) Ed Deckert IMCA #8911 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2009 11:31 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Slump glass meteorite protection/display > Hi list, A couple weeks ago there was a thread on encasing meteorites in > resin. Also in this months Meteorite Times there was a nicely written > article > Preserving meteorite slices in home-made glass mountings, by Gregory E > Carr > http://www.meteorite-times.com/meteorite_frame.htm > > I was wondering if anyone has tried slump glass. This is the process > where > a sandwich of glass with a meteorite slice in the middle is heated to the > point of fusing the outside glass sheets. It would drive out all > moisture > while completely sealing in the sample. Some material would melt at the > same > temperature as the glass but irons and most stonies would not. What > about > Olivine, would the melt point of Olivine be higher than the glass? > > Would this work? I have seen some real cool stuff fused into glass this > way. > > Tom > > **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 > easy > steps! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1218550342x1201216770/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=fe > bemailfooterNO62) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.0.0.386) > Database version: 5.11710 > http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/ E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.0.0.386) Database version: 5.11710 http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/ From michael at spacerocksinc.com Sun Feb 8 23:58:45 2009 From: michael at spacerocksinc.com (Michael Johnson) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 20:58:45 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - February 9, 2009 Message-ID: <8479480.49321234155524851.JavaMail.root@mbs5.homesteadmail.com> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/February_9_2009.html From STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com Mon Feb 9 00:06:34 2009 From: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com (STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 00:06:34 EST Subject: [meteorite-list] Slump glass meteorite protection/display Message-ID: Cool, The army says HUA (Heard, Understood and Accepted), well HUA. However, I know the Higgins (famous for slump glass) had all those issues but were able to overcome them in many materials. Slow heating and cooling can solve a lot. Please keep in mind I am not vested in this idea, just wondering. Tom In a message dated 2/8/2009 9:57:12 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, edeckert at triad.rr.com writes: Tom, I would be very afraid of the olivine cracking (at the least) -- and at the worst, cracking and crumbling out of the iron, leaving you with a falling-apart mess sandwiched between two layers of cracked glass. The glass is likely to crack due to the stress of the heating and cooling too. Better you should not heat it, but either use the dessicant as suggested in the article, or perhaps displace the air with a dry, inert gas like nitrogen, and sealing it in. That's my 1? cents (allowing for currency conversion fees depending on where you are in the world.) Ed Deckert IMCA #8911 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2009 11:31 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Slump glass meteorite protection/display > Hi list, A couple weeks ago there was a thread on encasing meteorites in > resin. Also in this months Meteorite Times there was a nicely written > article > Preserving meteorite slices in home-made glass mountings, by Gregory E > Carr > http://www.meteorite-times.com/meteorite_frame.htm > > I was wondering if anyone has tried slump glass. This is the process > where > a sandwich of glass with a meteorite slice in the middle is heated to the > point of fusing the outside glass sheets. It would drive out all > moisture > while completely sealing in the sample. Some material would melt at the > same > temperature as the glass but irons and most stonies would not. What > about > Olivine, would the melt point of Olivine be higher than the glass? > > Would this work? I have seen some real cool stuff fused into glass this > way. > > Tom > > **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 > easy > steps! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1218550342x1201216770/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=fe > bemailfooterNO62) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.0.0.386) > Database version: 5.11710 > http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/ E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.0.0.386) Database version: 5.11710 http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/ ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1218550342x1201216770/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=fe bemailfooterNO62) From STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com Mon Feb 9 00:14:06 2009 From: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com (STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 00:14:06 EST Subject: [meteorite-list] Slump glass meteorite protection/display Message-ID: I was just asked if I was Army. No, I am the proud dad of a son who is Army EOD (Explosive Ordinance Disposal). He is a bomb guy. I am boring by comparison! Spending my nights looking at thin sections. (Thanks to Jeff Hodges and Greg Hupe, my thin section benefactors) Tom In a message dated 2/8/2009 10:07:06 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com writes: Cool, The army says HUA (Heard, Understood and Accepted), well HUA. However, I know the Higgins (famous for slump glass) had all those issues but were able to overcome them in many materials. Slow heating and cooling can solve a lot. Please keep in mind I am not vested in this idea, just wondering. Tom In a message dated 2/8/2009 9:57:12 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, edeckert at triad.rr.com writes: Tom, I would be very afraid of the olivine cracking (at the least) -- and at the worst, cracking and crumbling out of the iron, leaving you with a falling-apart mess sandwiched between two layers of cracked glass. The glass is likely to crack due to the stress of the heating and cooling too. Better you should not heat it, but either use the dessicant as suggested in the article, or perhaps displace the air with a dry, inert gas like nitrogen, and sealing it in. That's my 1? cents (allowing for currency conversion fees depending on where you are in the world.) Ed Deckert IMCA #8911 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2009 11:31 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Slump glass meteorite protection/display > Hi list, A couple weeks ago there was a thread on encasing meteorites in > resin. Also in this months Meteorite Times there was a nicely written > article > Preserving meteorite slices in home-made glass mountings, by Gregory E > Carr > http://www.meteorite-times.com/meteorite_frame.htm > > I was wondering if anyone has tried slump glass. This is the process > where > a sandwich of glass with a meteorite slice in the middle is heated to the > point of fusing the outside glass sheets. It would drive out all > moisture > while completely sealing in the sample. Some material would melt at the > same > temperature as the glass but irons and most stonies would not. What > about > Olivine, would the melt point of Olivine be higher than the glass? > > Would this work? I have seen some real cool stuff fused into glass this > way. > > Tom > > **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 > easy > steps! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1218550342x1201216770/aol?redir=http: //www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=fe > bemailfooterNO62) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.0.0.386) > Database version: 5.11710 > http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/ E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.0.0.386) Database version: 5.11710 http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/ ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1218550342x1201216770/aol?redir=http: //www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=fe bemailfooterNO62) ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1218550342x1201216770/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=fe bemailfooterNO62) From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Mon Feb 9 01:39:55 2009 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 22:39:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Olivine, Quartz, and Enstatite... was Slump glass Message-ID: <160237.45035.qm@web55205.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Good Question: "What about Olivine, would the melt point of Olivine be higher than the glass?" Molten olivine at "silica glass" melting(aka"fusion")temperatures. Not at all as olivine has the highest fusion temperature in Bowen's Reaction Series(BRS). Thus it is the first to crystalize and precipitate out of magma. This is why it is used as a refactory material in making fire bricks. Olivine fuses at 1890*C, well above where iron fuses. The two minerals making up olivine: forsterite and fayalite are very close in fusion temperatures as to be negligible in general discussion. Silica, aka "quartz" has the lowest fusion temperature in BRS(1600*C +) and thusly rare in meteorites. That fact and this:When olivine is forced to react with quartz in any of several situations such as reheating,deep mantle pressures,extended cooling cycles,etc., the two minerals reform to produce enstatite. (Does the H and E chondrite composition and their parent bodies make more sense?) When this quality of olivine and it's implications sink in, one might experience the "Eureka" effect. It goes very, very far in explaining why meteorite petrology is the way it is:Especially, pallasites. Elton From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Mon Feb 9 01:58:59 2009 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 22:58:59 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Olivine, Quartz, and Enstatite... was Slump glass Message-ID: <359679.1672.qm@web55204.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Good Question: "What about Olivine, would the melt point of Olivine be higher than the glass?" Molten olivine at "silica glass" melting(aka"fusion")temperatures. Not at all as olivine has the highest fusion temperature in Bowen's Reaction Series(BRS). Thus it is the first to crystalize and precipitate out of magma. This is why it is used as a refactory material in making fire bricks. Olivine fuses at 1890*C, well above where iron fuses. The two minerals making up olivine: forsterite and fayalite are very close in fusion temperatures as to be negligible in general discussion. Silica, aka "quartz" has the lowest fusion temperature in BRS(1600*C +) and thusly rare in meteorites. That fact and this:When olivine is forced to react with quartz in any of several situations such as reheating,deep mantle pressures,extended cooling cycles,etc., the two minerals reform to produce enstatite. (Does the H and E chondrite composition and their parent bodies make more sense?) When this quality of olivine and it's implications sink in, one might experience the "Eureka" effect. It goes very, very far in explaining why meteorite petrology is the way it is:Especially, pallasites. Elton From MeteorHntr at aol.com Mon Feb 9 02:33:38 2009 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 02:33:38 EST Subject: [meteorite-list] Birthday Bash Message-ID: Hello All, I just wanted to drop a note to say "thanks" to everyone who came to the party last night. If it wasn't for the great turnout each year, Geoff and I would still have fun, but it wouldn't be the same. Friends of mine, back in the real world, get a kick out of it when I tell them I have to go to Tucson each year to have my birthday party with 100 of my closest friends. I don't expect them to understand, but I try to explain how cool it is to hang out with you guys who schedule the party into your busy and valuable weekend. Then my friends seem to get a bit jealous they can't get out to join all of us for the festivities. Of course, all of you who attend are in on the little secret that the party is only around 2% about it being Geoff's and my birthday, and closer to 98% about the chance for all of us to get to hang out and talk space rocks for a few hours in the middle of the greatest few days of the meteorite year. After dinner tonight with Geoff, we were talking about how fortunate we are to have the friends we do, and trust me, it is OUR HONOR to be able to host the annual event. A special thanks goes out to all you shutter bugs who take the time to snap and then share some of the better photos of the event. For those of you who couldn't make it out this year, I hope you can all make it next year, where we hope it will be even better than this year. You all are greatly appreciated! Steve Arnold #1 Birthday Boy #2 **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1218550342x1201216770/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=fe bemailfooterNO62) From info at meteorites.com.au Mon Feb 9 05:39:02 2009 From: info at meteorites.com.au (Jeff Kuyken) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 21:39:02 +1100 Subject: [meteorite-list] OT - Devastating Australian Bushfires Message-ID: To those who are worried... thanks! I thought it easier to give an update to everyone at once. For those of you who may not be aware, Australia has suffered it's most catastrophic bushfires in our history. In fact it is now Australia's worst peace-time disaster. Melbourne city reached 47 degrees Celsius on Saturday with country areas even higher. 100km/h hot winds fanned massive bushfires around the edges of the city which are now spreading further throughout our state. Entire towns have been completely wiped off the map and many areas look like they have suffered a nuclear explosion. There has been tragic loss of life with 134 killed so far but that number is rising terribly. Nearly 800 homes and 1 million acres have been completely burnt. I do know people who have lost houses but thankfully no one has been hurt. I'm ok where I am but I do have family and friends who are in areas on alert but hopefully the weather will be more favourable in the next few days. So thanks to those of you passing on best wishes and let's hope all will be as good as it can be in such a terrible situation. Thanks, Jeff From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com Mon Feb 9 09:03:58 2009 From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 06:03:58 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] tishka misunderstanding Message-ID: <483948.1433.qm@web57803.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi list.I do not know if I worded my post from last night,but a couple of people did not know if I was giving away those tishka's.YES!!!!!I have 6 more to givaway if anyone wants any.Please just give your address. ? Steve R.Arnold,Chicago! http://chicagometeorites.net/ From STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com Mon Feb 9 09:23:46 2009 From: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com (STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 09:23:46 EST Subject: [meteorite-list] Olivine, Quartz, and Enstatite... was Slump glass Message-ID: Well said Elton! Thanks Tom In a message dated 2/8/2009 11:40:07 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, mstreman53 at yahoo.com writes: Good Question: "What about Olivine, would the melt point of Olivine be higher than the glass?" Molten olivine at "silica glass" melting(aka"fusion")temperatures. Not at all as olivine has the highest fusion temperature in Bowen's Reaction Series(BRS). Thus it is the first to crystalize and precipitate out of magma. This is why it is used as a refactory material in making fire bricks. Olivine fuses at 1890*C, well above where iron fuses. The two minerals making up olivine: forsterite and fayalite are very close in fusion temperatures as to be negligible in general discussion. Silica, aka "quartz" has the lowest fusion temperature in BRS(1600*C +) and thusly rare in meteorites. That fact and this:When olivine is forced to react with quartz in any of several situations such as reheating,deep mantle pressures,extended cooling cycles,etc., the two minerals reform to produce enstatite. (Does the H and E chondrite composition and their parent bodies make more sense?) When this quality of olivine and it's implications sink in, one might experience the "Eureka" effect. It goes very, very far in explaining why meteorite petrology is the way it is:Especially, pallasites. Elton **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1218550342x1201216770/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=fe bemailfooterNO62) From raremeteorites at yahoo.com Mon Feb 9 13:12:43 2009 From: raremeteorites at yahoo.com (Adam Hupe) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 10:12:43 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD/Excellent 10-Day Auctions Ending-Tishka/Tamdakht Now Available! Message-ID: <426237.38904.qm@web30708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dear List Members, Thank you for affording me the opportunity to present some updates and items for sale in this forum. I have several excellent pieces due to end this afternoon representing the end of a 10-day auction. I loaded several nice specimens including many planetary pieces and started them all at 99 cents. It is definitely worth a look since many will be sold at bargain prices. Tishka/Tamdakht Update: I loaded several nice lots and individuals of the most recent fall. Many pieces have the strangest crust I have ever seen. I started all of these specimens out at just 99 cents and will let the market decide the value. I was asked by several to bring back some of this fall and make it available so here you go. Be among the first to own some of this material. One set is due to end in two days and the other four days. Be sure to scroll through the link below as it will prove to be very interesting. All great auctions can be viewed at this link:: http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/raremeteorites!_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZQQ_mdoZ Thank you for looking and if you are bidding, good luck. Best Regards, ------------------------------------ Adam Hupe The Hupe Collection Team LunarRock IMCA 2185 raremeteorites at yahoo.com From bristolia at yahoo.com Mon Feb 9 13:28:46 2009 From: bristolia at yahoo.com (Paul) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 10:28:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Astronaut's Video Satirizes NASA Bureaucracy Message-ID: <604686.33873.qm@web36201.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Astronaut's Video Satirizes NASA Bureaucracy by Nell Greenfieldboyce. Morning Edition, February 9, 2009 http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=100346538 Andy Thomas/YouTube.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_424YskAfew Yours, Paul H. From wahlperry at aol.com Mon Feb 9 14:10:12 2009 From: wahlperry at aol.com (wahlperry at aol.com) Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2009 14:10:12 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] My Pasamonte Strewn Field Adventure Message-ID: <8CB59012A8F047C-584-747@WEBMAIL-DC10.sysops.aol.com> Hi All, This subject came up on the Nugget Shooter list. I thought members of this list might enjoy this story too. Sonny >'m sure everyone here has read about the Pasamonte meteorite fall that happened back in 1933 in New Mexico. They estimate the original mass weighed anywhere from 1000 to 1,000,000 tons. It was probably the brightest meteorite ever witnessed yet only 5-10 >pounds of it were ever recovered. Surely there has to be more laying around. Does anyone know about the land ownership status in that area? Is that area really rugged to the point it would keep meteorite hunters from looking for more pieces? How about the >composition of the meteorite itself. Would a eucrite last long in the field since they say it's a fragile meteorite? I see where everyone hunts for Glorieta pallisite in NM but no one seems to hunt the Pasamonte eucrite which would be worth a fortune if some were to >be recovered. I had the chance to hunt the Pasamonte strewn field a couple of years ago with a few good friends including Rob Reisener and Steve Schoner. The strewn field is made up mostly of flat range land with low vegetation. On the South and East sides of the strewn field are large canyons that resemble a small version of the Grand Canyon that go on for miles. The canyons are full of wildlife including black bears. I know what you are thinking, Black Bears in the middle of grass lands. The day prior to our arrival the ranch owner had a large black bear in the front yard looking for food. I told Steve and Rob I would have bet you a million dollars that the only bears in this area lived in a zoo in the next city. One of my favorite parts of our meteorite hunting trips is that you have a chance to sit down and talk to the property owner and hear the story of the meteorite fall and the early meteorite hunters . Nininger was one of the first meteorite hunters to arrive at the ranch to purchase and hunt for more pieces. Approximately one hundred fragments were recovered. We talked for hours on the back porch overlooking the strewn field. After getting permission to hunt the strewn we were given a guided tour of the ranch and had a chance to look around the old ranch house where many of the Pasamonte pieces were purchased by Nininger. The property surrounding the old house was full of old cars and everything they accumulated over the years. The only advice we were given was to watch out for rattlesnakes. In our previous conversation with the ranch owner he talked about being bitten on the back by a rattle snake while eating lunch out herding cattle. "I damned near died from the snake bite he said!" They had to build a two foot fence around the main ranch house just to keep the rattlesnakes out of the yard. Three prairie rattlesnakes were killed by the ranch hands in front of the main house a few days before. The old house was built over a basement with a concrete stairway leading under the house. The upper floor of the house was missing a door or two and full of everything! Still the chance to find a Pasamonte meteorite was "worth the stay in a hospital from a snake bite" I told Rob as I tried to get him to go first down the stairway. After a few seconds of discussing this Rob, Steve and myself decided the chance of finding a meteorite in the basement or upper floor were not good. The three of us looked around the property with no luck. We did find a Hognose snake along the fence. In all reality the chance of finding a eucrite after all these years would not be good. The condition of the strewn field during the time of the fall was little or no vegetation due to the drought that they were experiencing in 1933. Many of the fragments were easily spotted by the sheep herders and ranch hands due to the rich dark black fusion crust of a eucrite. 75 years of farming and ranching would make it almost impossible for a Pasamonte eucrite to survive for that many years. If you were able to come across a fragment it would have traces of a dull black fusion crust with a dirty white to gray interior and crumble with little or no effort . The following morning we hunted the rolling hills wandering through the strewn field that was now patches of tall grass with some open areas of vegetation. Cattle and antelope also wandered the strewn field for as far as you could see. For most of the day a young antelope followed behind me 100' or so only stopping as I did to wait while I look at suspected meteorites. After numerous hours of hunting I could see Rob off in the distance walking towards my location. When we finally met up we were a half mile or so off the edge from were the flat land dropped into the steep ravines. Rob and I both talked about the condition of the strewn field and the chances of finding any meteorites at all. As we were talking I noticed off in the distance what looked like a small herd of antelope running from the edge of the canyon. It was still hard to make out what they were but they were running towards us. The little antelope that had been falling me all day was still about 200' away looking in our direction. As the antelope got a little closer we both could see why they were running. A large dark colored object was chasing after the antelope . By now Rob and I both stopped talking and put our full attention on what was chasing the antelope. It was a bear on a full run. I turned and looked in the direction of the car that was parked by an old windmill I could see nothing but rolling hills in all directions. By this time the little antelope that was my new buddy was a dust trail on the horizon. Rob and I had no other option but to out run each other in hopes that the bear would get the weaker one! As we started to turn and run for our lives the antelope must have spotted us and turned the other direction and went over the hill out of sight. Rob and I decided that we had enough of Pasamonte and should try to find Schoner before the snakes or bears get him! If I was to plan a return trip to Pasamonte I would try to go in the winter months, the grass would be lower and less chance of running into a snake and hopefully it would be hunting season! Sonny 'm sure everyone here has read about the Pasamonte meteorite fall that happened back in 1933 in New Mexico. They estimate the original mass weighed anywhere from 1000 to 1,000,000 tons. It was probably the brightest meteorite ever witnessed yet only 5-10 pounds of it were ever recovered. Surely there has to be more laying around. Does anyone know about the land ownership status in that area? Is that area really rugged to the point it would keep meteorite hunters from looking for more pieces? How about the composition of the meteorite itself. Would a eucrite last long in the field since they say it's a fragile meteorite? I see where everyone hunts for Glorieta pallisite in NM but no one seems to hunt the Pasamonte eucrite which would be worth a fortune if some were to be recovered. From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com Mon Feb 9 15:29:54 2009 From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 12:29:54 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] tucson pic 2 is up Message-ID: <932561.75175.qm@web57802.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi list.I just got done putting up my 2nd tucson pic page up.15 pics in all,just like page one.Also all the free tishka's are gone.I still do have both 11 gram pieces still available forsale.I will put up page 3 tonight.So thanks again for all who posed for the camera.I really enjoy doing this for all to see. ? Steve R.Arnold,Chicago! http://chicagometeorites.net/ From epgrondine at yahoo.com Mon Feb 9 15:52:48 2009 From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 12:52:48 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Papers Dispute the Existence of Wildfires with Start of Younger Dryas Message-ID: <818458.30749.qm@web36903.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi Paul - Thanks ever so much for passing that information on. You'll probably also be interested in learning that Gerte Keller manages somehow to place pieces every so often claiming that the Chicxulub impact didn't extinct the dinosaurs. My guess is that Morrison is refereeing. In earlier times this type of piece would go up to the Cambridge Conference, be torn apart, and disposed of properly. It is extremely frustrating for me personally that that is no longer the case. I know you're just passing on news, so here's some more news: the acting NASA Administrator is standing in contempt of the Congress for failing to carry out the George Brown Jr. amendment. Hopefully that situation will end in about 2 to 3 weeks, and Ares 1 and Ares 5 will too, in spite Thiokol's lobbying efforts. I hope I'm not being too DIRECT about this. Once again, I know you're just the messenger, and I sincerely thank you for your ongoing posts on impact research. I'm going to go take something for my headache, and then take a nap, and try to forget about missing Tucson this year. E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas From azizhabibi at yahoo.com Mon Feb 9 17:23:26 2009 From: azizhabibi at yahoo.com (habibi abdelaziz) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 14:23:26 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] ad //new tichka fall for sale, nice complete stone3800 gr Message-ID: <516317.72172.qm@web62001.mail.re1.yahoo.com> hi all i hope everybody is doing well. here is for sales some of the taiffest from tichka fall this stone was found road of ait ben haddou and than taiffest and than montain about 30 km from tamedaght, i have the fallowing 1= 3800 gr complete stone with thumberprint very nice looking stone from one side first crust and the back side is the segondary crust. very nice stone with nice depressions,, 2= 1300 gr half complte stone has flow line of oriontation . agood one 3= 1400 gr fragment to be sliced, please email your offers see photo here http://www.flickr.com/photos/azizhabibi/ and if you wnat to enjoy the desert see photo of a real trip inside dunes http://www.flickr.com/photos/palmotel aziz habibi IMCA # 6220 habibi aziz box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco phone. 21235576145 fax.21235576170 __________________________________________________________________________________________________ Ne pleurez pas si votre Webmail ferme ! R?cup?rez votre historique sur Yahoo! Mail ! http://fr.docs.yahoo.com/mail/transfert_mails.html From cynapse at charter.net Mon Feb 9 18:36:39 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2009 18:36:39 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] A nice asteroid In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: http://mashie.org/casemods/asteroid5.html From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Mon Feb 9 18:50:00 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 15:50:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] MESSENGER Continues Hunt for Ever-Elusive Vulcanoids Message-ID: <200902092350.PAA27924@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://messenger.jhuapl.edu/news_room/details.php?id=120 MESSENGER Mission News February 9, 2009 MESSENGER Continues Hunt for Ever-Elusive Vulcanoids MESSENGER reaches its orbital perihelion today and passes within 0.31 astronomical units (AU) of the Sun (one AU is nearly 150 million kilometers or 93 million miles). The mission's imaging team is taking advantage of the probe's proximity to the fiery sphere to continue their search for vulcanoids - small, rocky asteroids that have been postulated to circle the Sun in stable orbits inside the orbit of Mercury. Vulcanoids are named after Vulcan, a planet once proposed to explain unusual motions in Mercury's orbit. Scientists have long suspected that these small, faint "space rocks" exist. There is a gravitationally stable region between the orbit of Mercury and the Sun, which means that any objects that originally formed there could have remained for billions of years and might still be there today. All other such regions in the solar system are occupied by some type of debris (e.g., Trojan asteroids at stable points along the orbits of Jupiter and Neptune and Kuiper Belt objects near and beyond the orbit of Pluto). The so-called vulcanoid region between the orbit of Mercury and the Sun is the main gravitationally stable region that is not known to be occupied. The region is, however, the most difficult to observe. Any vulcanoids would be difficult to detect from Earth because of the strong glare of the Sun. Previous vulcanoid searches have revealed no bodies larger than 60 kilometers in diameter. But MESSENGER's travels in near-Mercury space enable a search for vulcanoids from a vantage never before attempted, says MESSENGER Science Team Member Clark Chapman, who is spearheading the team's search along with his associate, William Merline. "With MESSENGER, we can search for vulcanoids as small as 15 kilometers across," said Chapman, a senior scientist at the Southwest Research Institute in Boulder, Colorado. Between February 7 and 11, the wide-angle camera of MESSENGER's Mercury Dual Imaging System will have snapped 256 images in the areas east and west of the Sun. Because of the danger of the Sun's glare, the camera will have to peek just past the probe's sunshade to capture images. "We are making the same observations on each day," MESSENGER team member Nancy Chabot explained. "This cadence will allow us to reject cosmic rays and to distinguish, by its motion, the class of each object imaged" (e.g., vulcanoid vs. near- or inner-Earth asteroid). The team carried out a similar imaging campaign over a nine-day period in June 2008, capturing 240 images of the outer portions of the would-be vulcanoid belt. "This sequence was designed to refine our observing techniques, assess limiting magnitudes, verify detectability of known objects, and make an initial search,' Chapman explained. "Vulcanoids, should they be found, may provide scientists with insights into the conditions prevalent in the early solar system," Chapman said. "In particular, if they exist or once existed, they would represent an additional population of impactors that would have cratered no other planet but Mercury, implying that the geological processes on Mercury have happened more recently than we would calculate if we assumed that Mercury's craters formed at rates equivalent to cratering on the Moon and Mars." If vulcanoids are found not to exist, then we could be more confident that most of Mercury's volcanic plains formed billions of years ago, as on the Moon, according to Chapman. The absence of vulcanoids would also focus scientists' thinking on why vulcanoids never formed or, if they did form, why they are no longer there. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ MESSENGER Thermal Engineer Maintains Cool in Extreme Environs The Mercury-bound MESSENGER spacecraft will be assaulted by temperatures as high as 700?F as it orbits the planet closest to the Sun, and the only thing that will stand between its room-temperature science instruments and the blistering heat is a handmade ceramic-cloth quilt just one-quarter of an inch thick. Carl Jack Ercol, the man largely responsible for making sure that MESSENGER will be able to stand up to such harsh heat once imagined he'd make his living in a darker, much cooler environment: the coal mining industry. Read more about Ercol at http://messenger.jhuapl.edu/who_we_are/member_focus.html. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ MESSENGER (MErcury Surface, Space ENvironment, GEochemistry, and Ranging) is a NASA-sponsored scientific investigation of the planet Mercury and the first space mission designed to orbit the planet closest to the Sun. The MESSENGER spacecraft launched on August 3, 2004, and after flybys of Earth, Venus, and Mercury will start a yearlong study of its target planet in March 2011. Dr. Sean C. Solomon, of the Carnegie Institution of Washington, leads the mission as principal investigator. The Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory built and operates the MESSENGER spacecraft and manages this Discovery -class mission for NASA. From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Mon Feb 9 18:52:18 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 15:52:18 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Stardust Logs A Decade Under The Stars Message-ID: <200902092352.PAA29835@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/features.cfm?feature=2022 Stardust Logs A Decade Under The Stars Jet Propulsion Laboratory February 06, 2009 Saturday, Feb. 7, marks the 10th anniversary of the launch of NASA's well-traveled Stardust spacecraft. Launched on Feb. 7, 1999, Stardust , covered 3-billion-miles during its first seven years in space before returning the world's first samples from a known comet. Stardust's tennis racket-like, aerogel-lined collector was extended to capture particles hurtling at it at about six times the speed of a rifle bullet, as the spacecraft flew within 240 kilometers (149 miles) of comet Wild 2 in January 2004. The return capsule landed Jan. 15, 2006, in Utah, carrying both interstellar and comet particles, completing the first U.S. space mission to return extraterrestrial material from beyond the orbit of Mars. Two days later the capsule was transported to a curatorial facility at NASA's Johnson Space Center in Houston. With its prime mission complete, NASA re-designated the Stardust mission as Stardust-NExT. Short for Stardust-New Exploration of Tempel, Stardust-NExT is a low-cost, Discovery Program mission of opportunity that will expand the investigation of comet Tempel 1 initiated by NASA's Deep Impact spacecraft. The extended mission tasks the Stardust spacecraft to fly by the comet Tempel 1 on Feb. 14, 2011. During the flyby, it will obtain high-resolution images of the comet???s coma and nucleus, as well as measurements of the composition, size distribution, and flux of dust emitted into the coma. Mission planners hope Stardust-NExT will provide important new information on how Jupiter-family comets evolve and how they formed 4.6 billion years ago. The Jet Propulsion Laboratory, a division of the California Institute of Technology, Pasadena, manages Stardust-NExT for the NASA Science Mission Directorate, Washington, D.C. Joseph Veverka of Cornell University, Ithaca, N.Y., is the mission's principal investigator. Lockheed Martin Space Systems, Denver, manages day-to-day mission operations. While the Stardust spacecraft is unavailable for public viewing at present (it is more than 13.5 million kilometers, or 8.4 million miles, from Earth), the public can view its sample return capsule. In Jan. 2006, the capsule became the fastest manmade object ever to enter Earth's atmosphere at over 46,400 kilometers per hour (28,800 mph). The capsule is on display at the National Air and Space Museum's Milestones of Flight Gallery in Washington. To learn more about the mission, visit http://stardustnext.jpl.nasa.gov/ . Media contact: DC Agle/JPL 818-393-9011 From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Mon Feb 9 19:09:36 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 16:09:36 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Geologic Features in Martian Craters Suggest Deposition and Flow of Water and/or Ice Message-ID: <200902100009.QAA08260@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://www.psi.edu/press/ Geologic Features in Martian Craters Suggest Deposition and Flow of Water and/or Ice Planetary Science Institute Feb. 5, 2009 - Scientists at the Tucson-based Planetary Science Institute (PSI) have found further evidence for the large role that water has likely played in shaping the Martian landscape. Their results, which will be published in Icarus and are now available online at Science Direct (search All fields:10.1016/j.icarus.2008.10.026), provide strong evidence that multiple wet and/or icy climate cycles have shaped the topography of the planet's large craters. Icarus is the journal of the American Astronomical Society's Division of Planetary Sciences. "Studying crater degradation in potentially ice-rich environments is vital to understanding the geology of craters and their surroundings, as well as for determining whether the ice comes from the atmosphere or from below the ground," said Daniel Berman, a PSI associate research scientist and lead author of the paper. Berman, along with PSI Senior Scientist David Crown and PSI Research Scientist Leslie Bleamaster III, surveyed the geologic features in two sets of mid-latitude craters. Each set included about 100 craters, with the first set in the Arabia Terra region of the northern hemisphere and the second set in an area east of Hellas basin in the southern hemisphere. The researchers selected craters that are greater than 20 km (about 12.5 miles) in diameter that have been completely or nearly completely photographed by cameras on various spacecraft, including the Mars Odyssey THEMIS VIS camera, the Mars Global Surveyor Mars Orbiter Camera, and the Viking Orbiter cameras. They looked specifically for the following erosional or depositional features, the number and sizes of those features, and how the features are oriented (i.e., whether they face the equator or the planet's pole in their hemisphere): -- Lobate flows - Lobe-shaped flow features that have pitted surfaces and raised ridges on their lateral margins are observed on the walls of some craters. These lobes resemble rock glaciers on Earth. -- Channels - Narrow channels often breach crater walls and extend outside the craters, as well as across crater floors, These channels may have been formed by flowing water. -- Crater-wall valleys - Trough-like crater-wall valleys, wider than the above-mentioned channels, typically start at the top of the crater rim and terminate where the wall meets the floor. These valleys are sometimes filled with rough-textured deposits, which may be glacial. -- Gullies and alcoves - Gullies are typically composed of three parts: alcoves at the head of a channel, channels, and debris fans, and are thought to have been formed by flowing water. -- Arcuate ridges - These are small, arc-shaped ridges that enclose depressions at the base of crater walls, often below gullies. Berman interprets these to be glacial moraines, remnants of glacial deposits that have since evaporated. -- Debris aprons - These aprons are pitted and lineated deposits on crater floors. They are similar to debris-covered glaciers or ice-rich landslides seen on Earth. All of these features suggest a landscape shaped by liquid water and/or ice, Berman said. He found that lobate flows, gullies, and arcuate ridges on the crater walls between latitudes of 30 to 45 degrees face the pole in their hemisphere, whereas equator-facing orientations are more common than pole-facing ones at latitudes between 45 and 60 degrees. In the southern study area, narrow channels generally had pole-facing orientations, whereas wider valleys generally have equator-facing orientations. The features' pole-facing or equator-facing orientations could result from uneven heating of the crater walls. Ice on walls that get more sunlight would melt faster, causing more water to flow and form the gullies and other features. Unlike Earth, whose axis only oscillates through an arc of about four degrees over millions of years, Mars appears to have an axis that tilts between vertical and as much as 60 degrees, according to recent studies. Such tilting could enhance ice deposition, Berman said. When one pole begins leaning toward the sun, ice evaporates and then falls as snow at the other pole, which is getting little sunlight. Such tilting could have caused ice sheets to form in areas that are now ice-free, he added. Further evidence for flowing ice is found on the crater floors, Berman observed. He found that the floors of small craters slope away from the walls that exhibit erosional/depositional features toward the more pristine ones. These slopes have inclines of about 0.5 to 3 degrees. This suggests that ice-rich materials flowed from one crater wall to the other. Tilting floors are less evident in larger craters, although some have gradually sloping floors where debris apron material is evident. The PSI team's crater study has led them to make the following conclusions: -- The orientation of erosional/depositional features (whether they face the equator or the pole) suggests a direct relationship to total solar heating along the crater walls. -- Differences in the shape and size of various erosional/depositional features can be explained by differences in crater-wall slopes, local topography and orientation. -- The geologic features and suites of features found in the craters may have been created by multiple cycles of ice-sheet formation in response to changes in the tilt of Mars' rotation axis. This work was funded by a grant to PSI from NASA's Mars Data Analysis Program (PI David Crown). Figure: THEMIS VIS image V07798008, centered at -40.32? N, 132.5? E, showing a 16 km diameter crater with gullies and arcuate ridges on its north, pole-facing interior wall in the center of a larger (60 km diameter) crater with lobate flows on its north, interior wall. Image width is 17.4 km. From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Mon Feb 9 19:12:12 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 16:12:12 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Powerful New Technique to Measure Asteroids' Sizes and Shapes Message-ID: <200902100012.QAA09112@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://www.eso.org/public/outreach/press-rel/pr-2009/pr-04-09.html ESO 04/09 - Science Release 4 February 2009 For Immediate Release Powerful New Technique to Measure Asteroids' Sizes and Shapes A team of French and Italian astronomers have devised a new method for measuring the size and shape of asteroids that are too small or too far away for traditional techniques, increasing the number of asteroids that can be measured by a factor of several hundred. This method takes advantage of the unique capabilities of ESO's Very Large Telescope Interferometer (VLTI). "Knowledge of the sizes and shapes of asteroids is crucial to understanding how, in the early days of our Solar System, dust and pebbles collected together to form larger bodies and how collisions and re-accumulation have since modified them," says Marco Delbo from the Observatoire de la C??te d'Azur, France, who led the study. Direct imaging with adaptive optics on the largest ground-based telescopes such as the Very Large Telescope (VLT) in Chile (see ESO 21/05 and 18/07 ), and space telescopes, or radar measurements (ESO 11/07 ) are the currently favoured methods of asteroid measurement. However, direct imaging, even with adaptive optics, is generally limited to the one hundred largest asteroids of the main belt, while radar measurements are mostly constrained to observations of near-Earth asteroids that experience close encounters with our planet. Delbo and his colleagues have devised a new method that uses interferometry to resolve asteroids as small as about 15 km in diameter located in the main asteroid belt, 200 million kilometres away. This is equivalent to being able to measure the size of a tennis ball a distance of a thousand kilometres. This technique will not only increase the number of objects that can be measured dramatically, but, more importantly, bring small asteroids that are physically very different from the well studied larger ones into reach. The interferometric technique combines the light from two or more telescopes. Astronomers proved their method using ESO's VLTI, combining the light of two of the VLT's 8.2-metre Unit Telescopes. "This is equivalent to having vision as sharp as that of a telescope with a diameter equal to the separation between the two VLT Unit Telescopes used, in this case, 47 metres," says co-author Sebastiano Ligori, from INAF-Torino, Italy. The researchers applied their technique to the main belt asteroid (234) Barbara, which was earlier found, by co-author Alberto Cellino, to have rather unusual properties. Although it is so far away, the VLTI observations also revealed that this object has a peculiar shape. The best fit model is composed of two bodies each the size of a major city ??? with diameters of 37 and 21 km ??? separated by at least 24 km. "The two parts appear to overlap," says Delbo, "so the object could be shaped like a gigantic peanut or, it could be two separate bodies orbiting each other." If Barbara proves to be a double asteroid, this is even more significant: by combining the diameter measurements with the parameters of the orbits, astronomers can then compute the density of these objects. "Barbara is clearly a high priority target for further observations," concludes Ligori. Having proven the validity of their new and powerful technique, the team can now start a large observing campaign to study small asteroids. More information These observations are presented in a paper by Delbo M. et al., First VLTI-MIDI direct determinations of asteroid sizes, in press in the Astrophysical Journal. The team is composed of Marco Delbo and Alexis Matter (OCA, France), Sebastiano Ligori and Alberto Cellino (INAF-Torino, Italy), and Jerome Berthier (IMCCE, Observatoire de Paris, France). The Italian version of this release published by INAF is available on this link Contacts Marco Delbo Observatoire de la C??te d'Azur, Nice, France E-mail: delbo at obs-nice.fr Phone: +33 (0)4 9200 1944 Sebastiano Ligori INAF- Osservatorio Astronomico di Torino, Italy E-mail: ligori at oato.inaf.it Phone: +39 011 8101 964 ESO La Silla - Paranal - ELT Press Officer: Dr. Henri Boffin - +49 89 3200 6222 - hboffin at eso.org ESO Press Officer in Chile: Valentina Rodriguez - +56 2 463 3123 - vrodrigu at eso.org National contacts for the media: Belgium - Dr. Rodrigo Alvarez +32-2-474 70 50 rodrigo.alvarez at oma.be Czech Republic - Pavel Suchan +420 267 103 040 suchan at astro.cz Denmark - Dr. Michael Linden-V??rnle +45-33-18 19 97 mykal at tycho.dk Finland - Ms. Riitta Tirronen +358 9 7748 8369 riitta.tirronen at aka.fi France - Dr. Daniel Kunth +33-1-44 32 80 85 kunth at iap.fr Germany - Dr. Jakob Staude +49-6221-528229 staude at mpia.de Italy - Dr. Leopoldo Benacchio +39-347-230 26 51 benacchio at inaf.it The Netherlands - Dr. Marieke Baan +31-20-525 74 80 mbaan at science.uva.nl Portugal - Prof. Teresa Lago +351-22-089 833 mtlago at astro.up.pt Spain - Dr. Miguel Mas-Hesse +34918131196 mm at laeff.inta.es Sweden - Dr. Jesper Sollerman +46-8-55 37 85 54 jesper at astro.su.se Switzerland - Dr. Martin Steinacher +41-31-324 23 82 martin.steinacher at sbf.admin.ch United Kingdom - Mr. Peter Barratt +44-1793-44 20 25 peter.barratt at stfc.ac.uk USA - Dr. Paola Rebusco +1-617-308-2397 prebusco at eso.org From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Mon Feb 9 19:30:55 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 16:30:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars Exploration Rovers Update - January 15-22, 2009 Message-ID: <200902100030.QAA17843@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/mission/status.html SPIRIT UPDATE: On the Move - sol 1791-1797, January 15 - January 22, 2009: Communication problems during the Martin Luther King, Jr. holiday led to the postponement of a drive planned for sol 1791 (Jan. 15, 2009) to sol 1793 (Jan. 17, 2009). Once the drive began, however, Spirit was able to go ahead with characterization of a rock target known as "Stapledon." Studies began with a stack of microscopic images taken at different focal lengths, then moved to compositional analysis using the alpha-particle X-ray spectrometer. On sol 1797 (Jan. 22, 2009), Spirit was to drive toward a prospective "on-ramp" to Home Plate, but a portion of the commands was corrupted during transmission and rejected by the rover. That particular drive is now planned for sol 1798 (Jan. 23, 2009). Also on sol 1797 Spirit was slated to take a deep sleep for the first time, as part of overall attempts to minimize power usage when not driving. Future plans call for Spirit to drive south across Home Plate toward Goddard/Von Braun with all haste in order to reach the next "Winter Haven" before the end of the summer season. Spirit is healthy and all subsystems are performing as expected as of the downlink of information from Mars for sol 1797 (Jan. 22, 2009). Solar-array energy is around 199 watt-hours (almost enough energy to light a 100-watt bulb for two hours). Tau (a measure of the amount of sunlight blocked by dust in the atmosphere) dropped to 0.536, slightly lower than last week. The dust factor, a measure of the amount of sunlight penetrating dust on the solar panels, is 0.2461, meaning that only about one-fourth of the sunlight reaching Spirit's solar arrays penetrates the layer of dust to generate electricity. Sol-by-sol summary In addition to making daily measurements of atmospheric darkness caused by dust, Spirit completed the following activities: Sol 1791 (Jan. 15, 2009): Spirit completed a timed drive. At the end of the drive, Spirit took images with the hazard-avoidance and navigation cameras. Sol 1792: Spirit took lossless-compression, full-color images, using all 13 filters of the panoramic camera, of a patch of material exposed in the wheel tracks called "Thunderbolt." Sol 1793: Spirit completed another timed drive, acquired hazard-avoidance camera images, and took a post-drive, 5-x-1 tier of navigation-camera images. Sol 1794: Spirit acquired full-color, lossless-compression images, using all 13 filters of the panoramic camera, of Thunderbolt. Sol 1795: Spirit acquired a 3-by-1 tier of panoramic-camera images looking in the drive direction. Sol 1796: Spirit checked for drift (changes with time) in the miniature thermal emission spectrometer, used the instrument to study the target called Robert Heinlein, unstowed the robotic arm, and acquired a 1-by-1-by-5 stack of stereo (3D) microscopic images of Stapledon. The rover placed the alpha-particle X-ray spectrometer on the target and, after relaying data to Odyssey, measured the elemental composition of Stapledon with the instrument. Sol 1797: Spirit was slated to check for drift (changes with time) in the miniature thermal emission spectrometer, use the instrument to study the target called Robert Heinlein, stow the robotic arm, and drive, stopping mid-drive to take panoramic-camera images of Stapledon. At the end of the drive, the rover was to take images with the hazard-avoidance and navigation cameras. These events were rescheduled when a corrupted command sequence prevented them from taking place. Sol 1798: Plans called for Spirit to take panoramic-camera images of a rock feature called "Mustang" along with spot images of the sky for calibration purposes. Odometry As of sol 1797 (Jan. 22, 2009), Spirit's total odometry was 7,531.60 meters (4.68 miles). ------------------------------------------------------------------------ OPPORTUNITY UPDATE: Happy Anniversary! - sol 1770-1776, January 15-21, 2009: Happy anniversary to both Spirit and Opportunity for completing five Earth-years exploring the surface of Mars! Opportunity's goal this past week has been to put the pedal to the metal and acquire drive-by images of a crater dubbed "Ranger Crater." Preliminary results from last week's shake of the mirror on the miniature thermal emission spectrometer on sol 1771 (Jan. 16, 2009) indicated that no dust was removed as engineers had hoped. Opportunity is healthy, and all subsystems are performing as expected as of the downlink of information on sol 1776 (Jan. 21, 2009). Solar energy levels are at 613 watt-hours (slightly more than the amount of energy needed to light a 100-watt bulb for six hours). Tau, a measure of sunlight-blocking dust in the atmosphere, is 0.455. The dust factor, a measure of the proportion of sunlight penetrating dust on the solar arrays, is 0.6196. Sol-by-sol summary In addition to monitoring daily dust-related changes in atmospheric clarity with the panoramic camera and relaying data to NASA's Mars Odyssey orbiter for transmission to Earth, Opportunity completed the following activities: Sol 1770 (Jan. 15, 2009): Opportunity drove and acquired image mosaics with the navigation and panoramic cameras. The rover measured argon gas in the Martian atmosphere using the alpha-particle X-ray spectrometer and went into a mini-deep sleep. Sol 1771: Opportunity completed a systematic foreground quarter survey using all 13 color filters of the panoramic camera. The rover checked for drift (changes with time) in the miniature thermal emission spectrometer, conducted a utility test of the instrument, and completed a post-shake test calibration by looking at the ground and sky. Opportunity measured argon gas in the Martian atmosphere using the alpha-particle X-ray spectrometer and went into a mini-deep sleep. Sol 1772: Opportunity surveyed the sky at low Sun with the panoramic camera and, after relaying data to Odyssey, measured argon gas in the Martian atmosphere using the alpha-particle X-ray spectrometer. The rover went into a mini-deep sleep. Sol 1773: Opportunity took morning, thumbnail images of the sky with the panoramic camera and full-color images, using all 13 filters of the panoramic camera, of a target dubbed "Thassos." The rover acquired a 6-by-1 panel of images of pavement textures using the panoramic camera. After measuring argon gas in the Martian atmosphere using the alpha-particle X-ray spectrometer, Opportunity went into a mini-deep sleep. Sol 1774: Opportunity drove 115.36 meters (378.48 feet) and acquired new image mosaics with the navigation and panoramic cameras, including a 360-degree view with the navigation camera. After the day's activities, the rover went into a deep sleep. Sol 1775: In the morning, Opportunity surveyed the sky at high Sun with the panoramic camera. The rover completed a systematic foreground quarter survey with all 13 color filters of the panoramic camera. After relaying data to Odyssey, Opportunity measured argon gas in the Martian atmosphere using the alpha-particle X-ray spectrometer and went into a mini-deep sleep. Sol 1776 (Jan. 21, 2009): In the morning, Opportunity took spot images of the sky with the panoramic camera for calibration purposes. Opportunity drove 29.90 meters (98.10 feet) to approach Ranger Crater and completed a quick get fine attitude to check the rover's precise location relative to the Sun. The rover acquired new image mosaics with the navigation and panoramic cameras and took a Tau measurement of atmospheric dust at sunset. Opportunity then went into a deep sleep. The following morning, Opportunity was to take spot images of the sky for calibration purposes with the panoramic camera, acquire time-lapse movie frames in search of clouds with the navigation camera, and monitor dust accumulation on the panoramic-camera mast assembly. Odometry As of sol 1776 (Jan. 21, 2009), Opportunity's total odometry was 13,866.70 meters (8.62 miles). From eric at meteoritewatch.com Mon Feb 9 19:48:49 2009 From: eric at meteoritewatch.com (Eric Wichman) Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2009 16:48:49 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] Announcement: CosmicAuctions.com is LIVE! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4990CEF1.2030307@meteoritewatch.com> Dear Meteorite People, Please forward this email to EVERYONE on your email list... This is an idea, a new venue, to bring to you, the meteorite collector, dealer, seller, hunter, and enthusiast a trusted place to go to buy sell trade and collect authentic meteorites. We've been working very hard over the last year to bring to the meteorite community a brand new and perhaps better venue for collectors and dealers. We've asked, interviewed, brainstormed, argued, expanded and contracted ideas with many meteorite dealers and collectors about what the meteorite community really would like to see, and the one thing that kept coming up was authenticity. Fair price was second, and for dealers, listing and selling fees were in the top three things that needed some serious attention. I want to personally thank everyone who has helped us bring this new site to a reality. Over the last few months I have personally had the pleasure to work with many dealers and collectors from across this wonderful community and they have been a great help with advice, ideas, and suggestions about bringing this site to life. I appreciate everyone's patience while we worked on this behind the scenes so as to build it in such a way to address the single biggest issue regarding selling meteorites on the web. Trust! Some of you already know about this site. Most of you don't. But either way I hope you'll like this idea. It's really a testbed for something much larger, and without you guys it will not work. Some of the things we have addressed... 1. Trust; To provide a safe and trusted environment to buy sell and trade AUTHENTIC meteorites on the web. 2. Price; To garner a fair market price for ALL meteorites sold on this site. This is not a race to the lowest price as Ebay is. Yet, the bargains will be automatic based on the laws of supply and demand and not artificially inflated or lowered due to price wars. 3. Cost; Free Listings to Dealers and Sellers (this includes collectors who sell their collections or individual meteorites) Requirements To Sell: Dealers must be referred by at least 2 other members. We tried an idea that maybe dealers should be allowed to sell by invitation only. This posed problems as anyone could invite anyone so we figured a compromise would be good. Similar to how the IMCA works, Dealers and Collectors who wish to sell on the site will be required to either be IMCA members in good standing and/or be referred by 2 other current site members. You need not be an IMCA member to join or buy, but to sell items you must meet these requirements. Requirements to Buy: You must like meteorites... ;) We hope that you will take a look, and browse the site. Join, and list some items. Try it out. If you don't like it that's ok, if you do like it great, and if you love the idea then welcome aboard! No matter your opinion we want to hear your feedback on this. Seriously... You are what will make this a success. Ask yourself these 4 questions. Do you want a safe and trusted place to buy and sell meteorites? Are you sick and tired of FeeBay's listing fees and costs to sell your meteorites? Do you want to buy meteorites at a fair and reasonable price? Are you tired of all the fake meteorites on the web? If you answered YES to any of these questions you owe it to yourself to check out this new site. Try it out, list meteorites, buy meteorites and enjoy the brand new and world's first meteorite auction site dedicated to the meteorite community. These are truly meteorite auctions for meteorite people by meteorite people. Buy Sell Trade Collect & Join Here: http://www.cosmicauctions.com Again, I'd like to thank all of you who have helped make this possible. You know who you are. Good Luck! Happy Hunting! & Certainly Enjoy the new site! I welcome any questions or comments. Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA www.meteoritesusa.com 904-236-5394 From michael at spacerocksinc.com Mon Feb 9 22:22:02 2009 From: michael at spacerocksinc.com (Michael Johnson) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 19:22:02 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - February 10, 2009 Message-ID: <4293852.184801234236122988.JavaMail.root@mbs5.homesteadmail.com> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/February_10_2009.html From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com Tue Feb 10 09:29:37 2009 From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 06:29:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] final tishka's (AD) Message-ID: <48984.59312.qm@web57804.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hello again list.I am just finishing up my 3rd and final pic page from tucson.It will be done later today.I seemed to have missed counted my tishka pieces.I have 3 left,all in the 3 gram range for freebies.As a result,I have (2) 10 gram pieces left and I will sell for $1.50 per gram.I feel I should pass the savings on to you since I said all freebies were gone.I will be out all morning,so the first 3 emails I see gets the last 3 freebies.CHIME LIKE MAD!!!!!!!People who already got them,please do not reply.It is only fair.All the others are already on there way. ? Steve R.Arnold,Chicago! http://chicagometeorites.net/ From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Tue Feb 10 09:33:26 2009 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 06:33:26 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] final tishka's (AD) Message-ID: <560814.36642.qm@web110602.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Steve, this is a sales ad. Can you attempt to follow the rules and stop posting hourly ads? Michael farmer Sent from my iPhone Michael On Feb 10, 2009, at 7:29 AM, steve arnold wrote: Hello again list.I am just finishing up my 3rd and final pic page from tucson.It will be done later today.I seemed to have missed counted my tishka pieces.I have 3 left,all in the 3 gram range for freebies.As a result,I have (2) 10 gram pieces left and I will sell for $1.50 per gram.I feel I should pass the savings on to you since I said all freebies were gone.I will be out all morning,so the first 3 emails I see gets the last 3 freebies.CHIME LIKE MAD!!!!!!!People who already got them,please do not reply.It is only fair.All the others are already on there way. Steve R.Arnold,Chicago! http://chicagometeorites.net/ ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com Tue Feb 10 10:51:44 2009 From: michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com (Michael Gilmer) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 07:51:44 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Let's split a shipping box order (for meteorites) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <431851.56214.qm@web58401.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi Listees! Does anyone want to split a wholesale box order with me? I need to purchase some small shipping boxes (no bigger than 6x6") and I don't want to get gouged on the price. Everywhere I look on eBay, on Google, Uline, etc - they all want too much per unit, or they overcharge on shipping. I am *not* going to pay anywhere near .50 per box when I am buy 100 or more of them. Who do they think they are fooling? One place wanted over $30 to ship 2 flat bundles of 50 single-wall 6x4x2 boxes! I can ship an entire telescope, mount and tripod legs for that! Gimme a break. Is there any place on the web where I can buy 100 small shipping boxes for less than $50 (shipped) ? If not, maybe a couple of listees would want to split a larger wholesale order, so we can get a decent price? Heck, for 50 cents a box, I'll go out into the woods with an axe, cut down the trees, and hand-craft them into boxes myself! ;) LOL (my uncle JC retired from a corrugated box factory, I know what these cost to make!) - and no, they don't sell directly to the public unfortunately. Regards and clear skies, MikeG ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Tue Feb 10 11:29:59 2009 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 08:29:59 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Let's split a shipping box order (for meteorites) Message-ID: <400808.16813.qm@web110611.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Try ordering from The post office they free. Michael farmer Sent from my iPhone Michael On Feb 10, 2009, at 8:51 AM, Michael Gilmer wrote: Hi Listees! Does anyone want to split a wholesale box order with me? I need to purchase some small shipping boxes (no bigger than 6x6") and I don't want to get gouged on the price. Everywhere I look on eBay, on Google, Uline, etc - they all want too much per unit, or they overcharge on shipping. I am *not* going to pay anywhere near .50 per box when I am buy 100 or more of them. Who do they think they are fooling? One place wanted over $30 to ship 2 flat bundles of 50 single-wall 6x4x2 boxes! I can ship an entire telescope, mount and tripod legs for that! Gimme a break. Is there any place on the web where I can buy 100 small shipping boxes for less than $50 (shipped) ? If not, maybe a couple of listees would want to split a larger wholesale order, so we can get a decent price? Heck, for 50 cents a box, I'll go out into the woods with an axe, cut down the trees, and hand-craft them into boxes myself! ;) LOL (my uncle JC retired from a corrugated box factory, I know what these cost to make!) - and no, they don't sell directly to the public unfortunately. Regards and clear skies, MikeG ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From MeteorHntr at aol.com Tue Feb 10 11:33:20 2009 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 11:33:20 EST Subject: [meteorite-list] Summer Jobs Hunting for Meteorites in Canada Message-ID: Hey Guys, It sounds like the land owners are hiring amateur meteorite hunters up in Buzzard Coulee. I wonder how much per hour the job pays? http://www.canada.com/Technology/Security+camera+footage+understanding+meteori te+origins/1270948/story.html Steve Arnold Arkansas **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1218550342x1201216770/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=fe bemailfooterNO62) From drtanuki at yahoo.com Tue Feb 10 12:05:47 2009 From: drtanuki at yahoo.com (drtanuki) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 09:05:47 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Buzzard Coulee update on Meteorite News Website 10Jan09 Message-ID: <537355.28433.qm@web53210.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Dear List, ? A new article has been published about the Buzzard Coulee, Canada meteorite fall and fireball.? I have posted about it on the Meteorite News Website: http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.com/ ? Security cameras caught asteroid fireball By Rod Nickel, Saskatchewan News Network February 10, 2009 "Security camera footage from a gas station and motel has proven the best tool for ... ? ? Thank you for taking a look at the website news.? Best, Dirk Ross...Tokyo From daistiho at hotmail.com Tue Feb 10 12:26:26 2009 From: daistiho at hotmail.com (tracy latimer) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 17:26:26 +0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] Let's split a shipping box order (for meteorites) In-Reply-To: <400808.16813.qm@web110611.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <400808.16813.qm@web110611.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Michael's right -- the Post Office just rolled out some small Priority Mail boxes, like what you would use to ship an old video cassette. Like all Post Office Priority boxes, they are free; if they would fill the bill, I'm sure your post office would be able to hook you up. You might even be able to order them online. Tracy Latimer ---------------------------------------- > Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 08:29:59 -0800 > From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com > To: michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com > CC: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Let's split a shipping box order (for meteorites) > > Try ordering from > The post office they free. > Michael farmer > > Sent from my iPhone > Michael > > > On Feb 10, 2009, at 8:51 AM, Michael Gilmer wrote: > > > Hi Listees! > > Does anyone want to split a wholesale box order with me? I need > to purchase some small shipping boxes (no bigger than 6x6") and > I don't want to get gouged on the price. _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_explore_022009 From almitt at kconline.com Mon Feb 9 14:19:07 2009 From: almitt at kconline.com (al mitterling) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 14:19:07 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] more Tucson Gem Show Photos In-Reply-To: <28516.85551.qm@web37102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <28516.85551.qm@web37102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Leigh Anne, Thank you for posting the images for the rest of us to enjoy!! --AL Mitterling From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Tue Feb 10 15:57:20 2009 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 10 Feb 2009 20:57:20 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] Re-2: more Tucson Gem Show Photos Message-ID: AL kindly wrote: "Hi Leigh Anne, Thank you for posting the images for the rest of us to enjoy!" Hi AL and List, Even though our young "goddess" did an excellent job - thank you Leigh Anne - I'd also like to thank these list members very much for letting us be part of all the fun at the Tuscon Show: Keith Chandler and Steve#2! Best from Germany, Bernd To: almitt at kconline.com meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com From mlblood at cox.net Tue Feb 10 16:54:02 2009 From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael Blood) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 13:54:02 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] Tucson Aucttion RSVP In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I am mailing out payments and discovering that the great computer Crash of February 2009 has wiped out most of my information needed To do so. Those of you who had items in the auction please email me With the following info: 1 Name 2 email address 3 Snail mail address 4 Home and cell phone numbers Thos NOT who did not have items in the auction, please provide This information as well. I have lost ALL email data after 2001. That Means the little I do have is now in error. I returned immediately after the auction due to my dear mother-in- Law's death which prevented Angel from going or from me enjoying the Show nearly as much. None the less, it is always good do be around friends. I will write at length about the show in the March METEORITE TIMES, But suffice it to say it was well and reasonably thriving moreso than most Had expected. In any event, please do get send me your information - please put " Imail Update" in the Message Box. If either of us ever mailed the other I would like to hear from you. RSVP Thanks, Michael From gmhupe at htn.net Tue Feb 10 17:20:43 2009 From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 17:20:43 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] After Show Auction Deals Ending - AD Message-ID: <1EC127A3A66B442D9B48304C97817177@Gregor> Dear List Members, Before and during the Tucson Show I have loaded up some very nice eBay auctions for those who could not attend. You will find many Planetary meteorites, Achondrites, all of the rarities I have announced over the past several years. In addition to these, I have also loaded the very last specimens of "The Incomparable" Olivine Diogenite, NWA 5480. If this wasn't enough for you deal sleuths, I have a large selection of unclassified NWA's at set pricing and then a large amount started at just 99 cents. Last week collectors got some great deals, and that will be the same this week! All of the above will end tomorrow, Wednesday, February 11th. If interested, please click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault Be sure to check what I have to offer over the coming weeks, I have been doing a LOT of early spring cleaning!! Thank you for bidding, and "Good Luck" winning what you are after!! Best regards, Greg ==================== Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmhupe at htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 ==================== Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com Tue Feb 10 17:31:52 2009 From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 14:31:52 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] darryl pitts siberian cd Message-ID: <544093.32395.qm@web57802.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi list.For all those people that were at the birthday bash,darryl pitt was giving away a cd called TWO SIBERIANS.It?is world music.It stars 2 very wonderful russian performers accompanied by many nice?secondary performers.One of those performers was the late micheal brecker.This was a great cd.Thanks darryl for making this freely available.Also I thought I would throw this in,I have a small micro of peekskill to givaway.The first one has it. ? Steve R.Arnold,Chicago! http://chicagometeorites.net/ From bobadebt at ec.rr.com Tue Feb 10 20:01:50 2009 From: bobadebt at ec.rr.com (David & Kitt Deyarmin) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 20:01:50 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Let's split a shipping box order (for meteorites) Message-ID: <56571075A6774950AE234D76662E39F9@David> You can get #4 Priority Mail Boxes from the USPS web site for free. They are 7" x 7" x 6" From markig at westnet.com Tue Feb 10 20:09:58 2009 From: markig at westnet.com (Mark Grossman) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 20:09:58 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Looking to contact Gordon Trone Message-ID: <009101c98be5$75611c80$6501a8c0@QED> If anyone can tell me how to contact Gordon Trone, who I believe is a meteorite collector or dealer in Oregon, it would be much appreciated. Is so, please email me off list. Thanks. Mark Grossman PS - my apologies if anyone received this message before. I inadvertently sent it in Rich Text Format, and it looks like it didn't get through the server before. From waltbranch at bellsouth.net Tue Feb 10 23:08:37 2009 From: waltbranch at bellsouth.net (Walter Branch) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 23:08:37 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Praise for Mal Bishop and Geoff Notkin Message-ID: Hello Everyone, List member Mal Bishop recently posted for sale of part of his collection of meteorites. Mal listed a large slice of Ghubara. Fortunately, I was the lucky purchaser of the Ghubara. I had such a slice a few years ago but sold it. It was one of those pieces you regret parting with and afterwards, I thought if I ever came across another piece, I would jump on it. I want to thank Mal for selling it to me at a great price. Mal is one of those list members you rarely hear from, but when you do, it pays to listen. Mal provided impeccable province (from Geoff Notkin) and his packaging was quite honestly, the best I have ever seen. The slice was so securely shipped, I truly believe it could have fallen off the delivery truck and into meteor crater and survived. Mal, you should work for NASA designing landing airbag systems for future Mars missions! I Also want to thank Mal for including the absolutely beautiful COA accompanying the slice of Ghubara. Mal got the slice from Geoff Notkin and thoughtfully included Geoff's COA. Now, I am not real keen on the importance of COAs but this one is a work of art by itself. Very nice work, Geoff. Well, that's all. I believe in giving credit where credit is due and both these gentleman deserve much credit. Clear skies (except for meteorites) -Walter Branch From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com Wed Feb 11 00:13:27 2009 From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 21:13:27 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] tucson pic page 3 Message-ID: <871266.97425.qm@web57808.mail.re3.yahoo.com> A very late good evening list.Just a heads up.My final pic page is up now for viewing.13 pictures in all.I hope you enjoy them as much as I have made it happen for you.Enjoy at your liesure. ? Steve R.Arnold,Chicago! http://chicagometeorites.net/ From mark.ford at ssl.gb.com Wed Feb 11 03:57:01 2009 From: mark.ford at ssl.gb.com (Mark Ford) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 08:57:01 -0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] Buzzard Coulee update on Meteorite News Website10Jan09 In-Reply-To: <537355.28433.qm@web53210.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <537355.28433.qm@web53210.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <29A9DB45B84970458190D7D39BD42C494FB30D@gamma.ssl.atw> >>> By Rod Nickel, Saskatchewan News Network February 10, 2009 Ha, and and excellent example of 'nominative determinism' .. - i.e. a meteorite report by 'Rod Nickel' Reminds me of a GPS satellite lecture I once went to, that was given by 'tom spacey' Best, Mark Ford -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of drtanuki Sent: 10 February 2009 17:06 To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com; Global Meteor Observing Forum Subject: [meteorite-list] Buzzard Coulee update on Meteorite News Website10Jan09 Dear List, ? A new article has been published about the Buzzard Coulee, Canada meteorite fall and fireball.? I have posted about it on the Meteorite News Website: http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.com/ ? Security cameras caught asteroid fireball By Rod Nickel, Saskatchewan News Network February 10, 2009 "Security camera footage from a gas station and motel has proven the best tool for ... ? ? Thank you for taking a look at the website news.? Best, Dirk Ross...Tokyo ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us. Email info at ssl.gb.com. You should not copy or use this email or attachment(s) for any purpose nor disclose their contents to any other person. GENERAL STATEMENT: Southern Scientific Ltd's computer systems may be monitored and communications carried on them recorded, to secure the effective operation of the system and for other lawful purposes. Registered address Rectory Farm Rd, Sompting, Lancing, W Sussex BN15 0DP. Company No 1800317 From michael at spacerocksinc.com Wed Feb 11 06:39:54 2009 From: michael at spacerocksinc.com (Michael Johnson) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 03:39:54 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - February 11, 2009 Message-ID: <22439439.337771234352394796.JavaMail.root@mbs5.homesteadmail.com> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/February_11_2009.html From meteoriteshow at free.fr Wed Feb 11 11:13:38 2009 From: meteoriteshow at free.fr (Meteoriteshow) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 16:13:38 -0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Ebay auctions ending on Saturday & New meteorites for sale on meteoriteshow.com Message-ID: <004001c98c63$b321fd90$460aa8c0@T42> Dear All, Today is wednesday and here is my usual post in order to remind you that my ebay auctions will end soon, on saturday. You can see the list of goodies available at: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZmeteoriteshow Should you see more details about my auction, please see at the end of this post. I will send invoices to winners only on Monday, Feb. 16 as I will not be able to access an internet connection during the weekend. As mentioned last week, i have also added 2 new webpages to my website where you can find my 2 latest HEDs: 1- NWA 5611 (Prov. Name assigned by the Meteoritical Society) - EUCRITE - TKW 355g The type specimen has been sent last month to Dr Barrat for analyses & classification. Endcuts and slices for sale can be seen at: http://meteoriteshow.free.fr/meteoriteshow%20fra/pages%20navigation/pieces_en_vente_NWA-5611-EUCRITE-fra.htm 2- NWA 5612 (Prov. Name assigned by the Meteoritical Society) - HOWARDITE - TKW 68.3g The type specimen has been sent last month to Dr Barrat for analyses & classification. As the complete stone was small and really beautiful, i do not want to cut it further than the type specimen and the REMAINING MAIN MASS of 53.1g is therfore offered for sale and can be seen at: http://meteoriteshow.free.fr/meteoriteshow%20fra/pages%20navigation/pieces_en_vente_NWA-5612-HOWARDITE-fra.htm Here are some more details about this week's ebay auctions: 1- OUED EL HADJAR - LL6 - 50.9g fragment: THIS VERY RARE WITNESSED FALL is a real beauty. This fragment measures ~55x34x26mm and is about 40% fusion crusted. This size is very difficult to get and you have here the possibility to get one, DON'T MISS IT!!! http://cgi.ebay.fr/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=330305981231 2- SAH 02500 - L3 - 404.0g partslice: Big partslice measuring ~110x143x11mm and displaying big & beautiful clasts, dark & fair grey inclusions, big chondrules... You will love it! http://cgi.ebay.fr/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=330305981238 3- DAG 951 - L5 - 5.1g partslice measuring ~45x17x4mm: NO BID YET!!! http://cgi.ebay.fr/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=330305981126 4- GAO GUENIE - H5 - 14.7g ORIENTED endcut: Another WITNESSED FALL this week, the smoothly polished cut section showing a "milky way" of metal fakes and the other sides a datk fusion crust. Only 1 bid, still at starting price! http://cgi.ebay.fr/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=330305981137 5- HAH 254 - L5-6 - 16.6g FULL SLICE: Measuring ~50x45x2mm, this slice displays its highly metamorphized structure and is fully fusion crusted all around its edges. http://cgi.ebay.fr/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=330305981147 6- NWA 5611(Prov. Name) - EUC - 0.3g partslice: Measuring ~15x8x2mm, this is the first partslice of my new Eucrite offered on ebay. The type specimen has been sent last month to Dr Barrat for classification and the winner will be informed as anyother buyer of this meteorite when classification will be known and provisional name confirmed. The provisional name of NWA 5611 was assigned by the Meteoritical Society. NO BID YET!!! STILL AT $1.00 STARTING PRICE!!! http://cgi.ebay.fr/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=330305981180 7- NWA 859 - TAZA - 10.2g ORIENTED INDIVIDUAL: Measuring ~25x18x7mm, this oriented individual has a really beautiful shape ; have a look at it! Only 1 bid, still at starting price! http://cgi.ebay.fr/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=330305981219 I thank you for your attention and wish the best of luck to all bidders!!! Kind regards, Frederic Beroud www.meteoriteshow.com IMCA #2491 From cynapse at charter.net Wed Feb 11 11:41:51 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 11:41:51 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Buzzard Coulee update on Meteorite News Website10Jan09 In-Reply-To: <29A9DB45B84970458190D7D39BD42C494FB30D@gamma.ssl.atw> References: <537355.28433.qm@web53210.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <29A9DB45B84970458190D7D39BD42C494FB30D@gamma.ssl.atw> Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Feb 2009 08:57:01 -0000, you wrote: >Ha, and and excellent example of 'nominative determinism' .. - i.e. a meteorite report by 'Rod Nickel' Sounds like a porn star name... From christian.anger at aon.at Wed Feb 11 12:00:13 2009 From: christian.anger at aon.at (Christian Anger) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 18:00:13 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Sale Estherville Collection Piece Message-ID: <000001c98c6a$34a6f9f0$9df4edd0$@anger@aon.at> Hi all, I have my Estherville collection piece for sale See 9.064g polished and etched partslice at www.austromet.com/CollnPics/Estherville_9.064g.jpg Dimensions: 48x30x2 mm U$ 180.00 Payment via paypal Best regards, Christian Ing. Christian Anger Korngasse 6 A-2405 Bad Deutsch Altenburg AUSTRIA email: christian.anger at aon.at website: www.austromet.com IMCA member # 2673 at www.imca.cc From michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com Wed Feb 11 15:15:04 2009 From: michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com (Michael Gilmer) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 12:15:04 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Let's split a shipping box order (for meteorites) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <160467.12121.qm@web58407.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi folks! My thanks to everyone who suggested free USPS Priority boxes. I sell alot of cheap stuff, $5 to $10, and I ship much of it via USPS First Class. I can ship a couple of micromounts for half the cost of Priority shipping, so I am trying to find some small boxes suitable for First Class shipping. Plus, my online account at USPS somehow got corrupted and I can't login. And it won't let me reset my password. I need to call them on the phone to straighten it out. I like the little white die-cut boxes, but without buying several hundred of them, it's hard to get a good price. Regards and clear skies, MikeG ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From waltbranch at birch.net Wed Feb 11 15:39:46 2009 From: waltbranch at birch.net (Walter Branch) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 15:39:46 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Let's split a shipping box order (formeteorites) References: <160467.12121.qm@web58407.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <59357B4838234930820EF5C90389E2AB@walterdesktop> Hi Mike, Do what Blaine Reed and others do. Get a bunch of those little white jewelry boxs for about .33 cents each, buy some padded envelopes for I don't know, .50 each and send them in that combination. -Walter Branch ----------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Gilmer" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 3:15 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Let's split a shipping box order (formeteorites) > Hi folks! > > My thanks to everyone who suggested free USPS Priority boxes. > > I sell alot of cheap stuff, $5 to $10, and I ship much of it via > USPS First Class. I can ship a couple of micromounts for half > the cost of Priority shipping, so I am trying to find some small > boxes suitable for First Class shipping. Plus, my online account > at USPS somehow got corrupted and I can't login. And it won't > let me reset my password. I need to call them on the phone > to straighten it out. > > I like the little white die-cut boxes, but without buying several > hundred of them, it's hard to get a good price. > > Regards and clear skies, > > MikeG > > > ......................................................... > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com > .......................................................... > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.234 / Virus Database: 270.10.20/1944 - Release Date: 02/10/09 17:44:00 From jkg2 at cox.net Wed Feb 11 15:48:36 2009 From: jkg2 at cox.net (John Gwilliam) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 13:48:36 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Let's split a shipping box order (for meteorites) In-Reply-To: <160467.12121.qm@web58407.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <160467.12121.qm@web58407.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090211204839.XYBW12540.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> You might consider including the cost of your shipping materials ( boxes, peanuts, bubble wrap and tape) in your shipping fees. That way, you don't have to be concerned with the cost of the boxes. John At 01:15 PM 2/11/2009, Michael Gilmer wrote: >Hi folks! > >My thanks to everyone who suggested free USPS Priority boxes. > >I sell alot of cheap stuff, $5 to $10, and I ship much of it via >USPS First Class. I can ship a couple of micromounts for half >the cost of Priority shipping, so I am trying to find some small >boxes suitable for First Class shipping. Plus, my online account >at USPS somehow got corrupted and I can't login. And it won't >let me reset my password. I need to call them on the phone >to straighten it out. > >I like the little white die-cut boxes, but without buying several >hundred of them, it's hard to get a good price. > >Regards and clear skies, > >MikeG > > >......................................................... >Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) >Member of the Meteoritical Society. >Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. >Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com >.......................................................... > > > > >______________________________________________ >http://www.meteoritecentral.com >Meteorite-list mailing list >Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list John Gwilliam Too many people were born on third base and go through life thinking they hit a triple. From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Wed Feb 11 16:49:43 2009 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 22:49:43 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Special: New Collectible - The King size Mars Box - Year of Astronomy 2009 offer & our Thanks Message-ID: <00a801c98c92$a6a84810$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Dear Collectors and Stargazers, today we celebrate the introduction of a new collectible: The King size Chladni Mars Box ! While our well-established Mars and Moon boxes took off on their triumphal course around the globe, on and off we were asked to manufacture custom-made cases, which combine the striking design and the tried quality of our boxes with veritable slices of Lunar and Martian material in the size range, commonly preferred by the advanced space and meteorite enthusiast. So our new child was born, and as you can see, it throve and prospered tremendously! http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/boxes/XXXL-XS.jpg The King size Mars box offers all criteria, the original Chladni cases are appreciated for: The handiness and quality, the elaborate design and the amazing decorativeness, which make the boxes to real eye-catchers. This special edition transcends the standard boxes - including an additionally luxurious certificate of authenticity in the back: http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/boxes/XXXL-b-back.jpg - and in presenting a partslice of NWA 4925, which ranks with its huge and colourful megacrysts and its bulky formed maskelynites among the most appealing and spectacular Martian shergottites. The slices are dimensioned like they are commonly desired by the specialized meteorite collectors, therefore we made sure that which such a box is given at hand even to the laymen without any experiences yet in that matter an object of true value. The weights of the enclosed slices vary between 0.22 and 0.27 grams. The dimensions of the King size boxes are, as indicated by the scale cube http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/boxes/XXXL-b-1.jpg 8.4cm x 5.9cm x 2.4 cm or roughly 3 1/3" x 2 1/3" x 1" And of course a variety of seven motifs, depicting Martian sceneries of the unbelievable photos delivered by the rover missions, is available for everyone's taste: http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/boxes/XXL-b-1.jpg http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/boxes/XXL-b-2.jpg http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/boxes/XXL-b-3.jpg http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/boxes/XXL-b-4.jpg http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/boxes/XXL-b-5.jpg http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/boxes/XXL-b-6.jpg http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/boxes/XXL-b-7.jpg The price for the King size Mars box is for today's special: $200. ------- Let us now take the opportunity to express our thanks. The Mars and Moon boxes are spread around the World, they are available in museums, planetaria, observatories, in the astronomical and educational trade. The reactions and enthusiasm one finds in the fora, blogs and discussions in the web, affirm that the idea to fulfil the dreams we had in our childhood, once being able to touch the Moon, to touch Mars and even to posses a piece from up there, was a good one and that this dream hasn't lost its fascination. They rejoice their owners, from the interested schoolchild to the heroic men, who once set foot on the Moon. Meanwhile the edition of the boxes reaches five-digit numbers, making them to the possibly most successful meteorite product of the recent times. With this broad effect, they serve a purpose, to which we all feel obligated. Such a box, a true sample of a lunar or Martian rock is a stimulus, to start to go in such topics like astronomy, meteorites, spaceflight. The boxes help to popularize our so beloved hobby and they rouse the awareness of meteorite in a broader public. Without the help and support of so many of our fellow dealers and collectors, who are distributing the boxes in so many countries, all that wouldn't have been possible. They stand in a great tradition and we owe them our most cordially thanks. ------- And now at the end to a matter that is near to our hearts. 2009 was proclaimed to be: THE INTERNATIONAL YEAR OF ASTRONOMY all around the globe popular observatories, planetaria, astronomy clubs, amateur astronomers, schools. will organize and carry out astronomical events. One of the Chladni's Heirs came as an amateur astronomer to his passion, the meteorites. Astronomy in many countries isn't found anymore on the curricula of the schools and in fact the astronomical education has to be mastered by often privately organized clubs, by public observatories and planetaria, by amateur astronomers and stargazers. (Where also some on this list are found). We want to support a little bit the great and important work they perform and want to allow them to take our regular Moon and Mars sample boxes: http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/moonrock2.jpg http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/boxes/Mars-XS-1.jpg (and many more motifs) at our wholesale rate but without the usual minimum order quantity. The wholesale price is so surprisingly affordable, that meanwhile a majority of the major meteorite offerers, also these, who have their own lunaites and Martians at their disposal, took them in their assortments. - and often the first reactions on that price of people beyond the meteoritic scene were, that they couldn't believe, that the samples are authentic, cause the price seemed to be for them implausibly low. No worries, the boxes have on the back a warrantee, in such a way, that every holder of such a box is enabled to verify independently, that the samples are real - not to mention, if they are using internet, where the search results rapidly lead them to Korotev's pages or the NASA Lunar Meteorite Compendium. We want to help to wash some money in the cashboxes of these associations and clubs. The capabilities of the boxes are manifold. They can be sold to visitors after public observations nights, star-parties ect., to the members for fund-raising and so on - well in fact, when such clubs ordered, they often kept the larger part directly for the members, also a form of reward. We don't have to tell, that Moon is for laymen the most impressive object to observe, neither the effect if they then have the possibility to touch and to own a sample from the surface, they just admired through the scope. Mars - this year we haven't a good opposition, but people see the fantastic pictures in media, Phoenix shovelling samples into the ovens and the busy rovers drilling and sniffing at the rocks. Imagine, from just such a rock, they can have now a piece! Currently we fill the Moon boxes with the very fresh and anorthosic granulite NWA 4881 and for the Mars cases we use NWA 4925. Please contact us off-list and don't forget to mention, for which association, astronomy club ect the boxes are intended. Many thanks for your attention & clear skies! Martin Altmann & Stefan Ralew Chladni's Heirs Munich - Berlin Fine Meteorites for Science & Collectors http://www.chladnis-heirs.com From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Wed Feb 11 18:37:46 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 15:37:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] MRO HiRISE Images - February 11, 2009 Message-ID: <200902112337.PAA23042@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> MARS RECONNAISSANCE ORBITER HIRISE IMAGES February 11, 2009 o Large Fresh Crater Near Marte Vallis http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_005917_2020 o Meander and Tributary of Scamander Vallis http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_011289_1950 o Crater in Meridiani Planum with Layering http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_011289_1950 All of the HiRISE images are archived here: http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ Information about the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter is online at http://www.nasa.gov/mro. The mission is managed by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, a division of the California Institute of Technology, for the NASA Science Mission Directorate, Washington, D.C. Lockheed Martin Space Systems, of Denver, is the prime contractor and built the spacecraft. HiRISE is operated by the University of Arizona. Ball Aerospace and Technologies Corp., of Boulder, Colo., built the HiRISE instrument. From ensoramanda at ntlworld.com Wed Feb 11 19:56:10 2009 From: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com (ensoramanda at ntlworld.com) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 0:56:10 +0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] MRO HiRISE Images - February 11, 2009 In-Reply-To: <200902112337.PAA23042@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <20090212005610.1UCAV.374610.root@web06-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com> The first image here shows some incredibly long fresh dark streaks descending the slopes that meander...can they really just be landslip or dust flows?? Graham Ensor, UK ---- Ron Baalke wrote: > > > MARS RECONNAISSANCE ORBITER HIRISE IMAGES > February 11, 2009 > > o Large Fresh Crater Near Marte Vallis > http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_005917_2020 > > o Meander and Tributary of Scamander Vallis > http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_011289_1950 > > o Crater in Meridiani Planum with Layering > http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_011289_1950 > > All of the HiRISE images are archived here: > > http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ > > Information about the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter is > online at http://www.nasa.gov/mro. The mission is > managed by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, a division > of the California Institute of Technology, for the NASA > Science Mission Directorate, Washington, D.C. Lockheed > Martin Space Systems, of Denver, is the prime contractor > and built the spacecraft. HiRISE is operated by the > University of Arizona. Ball Aerospace and Technologies > Corp., of Boulder, Colo., built the HiRISE instrument. > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From tett at rogers.com Wed Feb 11 20:19:10 2009 From: tett at rogers.com (tett) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 20:19:10 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Buzzard Coulee Classification In-Reply-To: <22439439.337771234352394796.JavaMail.root@mbs5.homesteadmail.com> References: <22439439.337771234352394796.JavaMail.root@mbs5.homesteadmail.com> Message-ID: <4993790E.9040804@rogers.com> List, Here is a "first look paper" on Buzzard Coulee. About what was expected. H4 or possibly H4/3. http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2009/pdf/1893.pdf Cheers, Mike Tettenborn Owen Sound, Ontario From cynapse at charter.net Wed Feb 11 21:19:20 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 21:19:20 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Scratch one set of Iridium flares In-Reply-To: <4993790E.9040804@rogers.com> References: <22439439.337771234352394796.JavaMail.root@mbs5.homesteadmail.com> <4993790E.9040804@rogers.com> Message-ID: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/12/science/space/12satellite.html?hp Debris Spews Into Space in Collision of Satellites By WILLIAM J. BROAD Published: February 11, 2009 For decades, space experts have warned of orbits around the planet growing so crowded that two satellites might one day slam into one another, producing swarms of treacherous debris. It happened Tuesday. And the whirling fragments could pose a threat to the International Space Station, orbiting 215 miles up with three astronauts on board, though officials said the risk was now small. ?This is a first, unfortunately,? Nicholas L. Johnson, chief scientist for orbital debris at the National Aeronautics and Space Administration, said of the collision. It happened some 490 miles above northern Siberia, at around noon Eastern time. Two communications satellites ? one Russian, one American ? cracked up in silent destruction. In the aftermath, military radars on the ground tracked large amounts of debris going into higher and lower orbits. ?Nothing to this extent? has ever happened before, Mr. Johnson said. ?We?ve had three other accidental collisions between what we call catalog objects, but they were all much smaller than this,? the objects always very small and moderate in size. The communication satellites, he added, ?are two relatively big objects.? The American satellite was an Iridium, one of a constellation of 66 spacecraft. Liz DeCastro, corporate communications director of Iridium Satellite, based in Bethesda, Md., said that the satellite weighed about 1,200 pounds and that its body was more than 12 feet long, not including large solar arrays. In a statement, the company said that it had ?lost an operational satellite? on Tuesday, apparently after it collided with ?a nonoperational? Russian satellite. ?Although this event has minimal impact on Iridium?s service,? the statement added, ?the company is taking immediate action to address the loss.? The company?s hand-held phones can be used anywhere around the globe to give users voice and data communications. Mr. Johnson said the Russian satellite was presumably nonfunctional. Officials at the Russian Embassy in Washington could not be reached for comment. Mr. Johnson said the United States military?s tracking radars had yet to determine the number of detectable fragments. ?It?s going to take a while,? he said. ?It?s very, very difficult to discriminate all those objects when they?re really close together. And so over the next couple of days we?ll have a much better understanding.? At a minimum, Mr. Johnson added, ?I think we?re talking many, many dozens, if not hundreds.? The debris could threaten the space station and its astronaut crew, he said. ?There are actually debris from this event which we believe are going through space station altitude already,? he said. The risk to the station, Mr. Johnson added, ?is going to be very, very small.? In the worst case, he said, ?We?ll just dodge them if we have to. It?s the small things you can?t see that are the ones that can do you harm.? In Houston, International Space Station controllers have often adjusted its orbit to get out of the way of speeding space debris, which can move so incredibly fast that even small pieces pack a destructive wallop. John Yembrick, a NASA spokesman in Washington, said the agency now judged the risk of collision with the speeding fragments to be ?very small.? The threat, he added, is defined and acceptable. Mr. Johnson, who works at the Johnson Space Center in Houston, said the new swarms of whirling debris might also eventually pose a threat to other satellites in an orbital chain reaction. ?What we?re doing now is trying to quantify that risk,? he said. ?That?s a work in progress. It?s only been 24 hours. We put first things first,? meaning the station and preparing for the next shuttle mission. William Harwood contributed reporting. From michael at spacerocksinc.com Thu Feb 12 06:13:51 2009 From: michael at spacerocksinc.com (Michael Johnson) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 03:13:51 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - February 12, 2009 Message-ID: <8577735.466611234437231240.JavaMail.root@mbs5.homesteadmail.com> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/February_12_2009.html From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com Thu Feb 12 07:50:30 2009 From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 04:50:30 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] looking for any oriented stones Message-ID: <463129.18901.qm@web57804.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi list.I am looking for any?oriented stones under $1K.Let me know if you want to sell or a possible trade/cash or trade. Steve R.Arnold,Chicago! http://chicagometeorites.net/ From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com Thu Feb 12 09:27:15 2009 From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 06:27:15 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] cleaning house freebies Message-ID: <931689.55448.qm@web57802.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi again list.I am doing some meteorite house cleaning and I decided to givaway these freebies if you are one of the first 5 to chime in.I have a 51 gram canyon diablo,a 10 gram tishka,a 37 gram oddesa or one of 2 sikhote-alins (28 and 40 grams).Let me know fast.I have a possible job offer today.On these I'll need shipping $$$$$$$ please.If you can. ? Steve R.Arnold,Chicago! http://chicagometeorites.net/ From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Thu Feb 12 12:57:11 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 09:57:11 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Two Satellites Collide in Orbit Message-ID: <200902121757.JAA12417@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://www.spaceflightnow.com/news/n0902/11iridium/ Two satellites collide in orbit BY WILLIAM HARWOOD STORY WRITTEN FOR CBS NEWS "SPACE PLACE" & USED WITH PERMISSION February 11, 2009; Updated @ 5 p.m. with Iridium statement; Updated @ 5:45 p.m. with STRATCOM interview In an unprecedented space collision, a commercial Iridium communications satellite and a defunct Russian satellite ran into each other Tuesday above northern Siberia, creating a cloud of wreckage, officials said today. The international space station does not appear to be threatened by the debris, they said, but it's not yet clear whether it poses a risk to any other military or civilian satellites. "They collided at an altitude of 790 kilometers (491 miles) over northern Siberia Tuesday about noon Washington time," said Nicholas Johnson, NASA's chief scientist for orbital debris at the Johnson Space Center in Houston. "The U.S. space surveillance network detected a large number of debris from both objects." Air Force Brig. Gen. Michael Carey, deputy director of global operations with U.S. Strategic Command, the agency responsible for space surveillance, said initial radar tracking detected some 600 pieces of debris. He identified the Russian spacecraft as Cosmos 2251, a communications relay station launched in June 1993, and said the satellite is believed to have been non-operational for the past 10 years or so. "As of about 12 hours ago, I think the head count was up (to around) 600 pieces," Carey told CBS News late today. "It's going to take about two days before we get a solid picture of what the debris fields look like. But you, I think, can imply that the majority of that should be probably along the same line as the original orbits." He said U.S. STRATCOM routinely tracks about 18,000 objects in space, including satellites and debris, that are 3.9 inches across or larger. Tracking priority and "conjunction analysis" - identifying which objects may pose a threat to manned spacecraft - is the first priority. "It's going to take a while" to get an accurate count of the debris fragments, Johnson said. "It's very, very difficult to discriminate all those objects when they're really close together. And so, over the next couple of days, we'll have a much better understanding." Asked which satellite was at fault, Johnson said "they ran into each other. Nothing has the right of way up there. We don't have an air traffic controller in space. There is no universal way of knowing what's coming in your direction." Iridium Satellite LLC operates a constellation of some 66 satellites, along with orbital spares, to support satellite telephone operations around the world. The spacecraft, which weigh about 1,485 pounds when fully fueled, are in orbits tilted 86.4 degrees to the equator at an altitude of about 485 miles. Ninety-five Iridium satellites were launched between 1997 and 2002 and several have failed over the years. "Yesterday, Iridium Satellite LLC lost an operational satellite," the company said in a statement. "According to information shared with the company by various U.S. government organizations that monitor satellites and other space objects (such as debris), it appears that the satellite loss is the result of a collision with a non-operational Russian satellite. "Although this event has minimal impact on Iridium's service, the company is taking immediate action to address the loss. The Iridium constellation is healthy, and this event is not the result of a failure on the part of Iridium or its technology. While this is an extremely unusual, very low-probability event, the Iridium constellation is uniquely designed to withstand such an event, and the company is taking the necessary steps to replace the lost satellite with one of its in-orbit spare satellites." Johnson said the collision was unprecedented. "Nothing to this extent (has happened before)," he said. "We've had three other accidental collisions between what we call catalog objects, but they were all much smaller than this and always a moderate sized objects and a very small object. And these are two relatively big objects. So this is a first, unfortunately." As for the threat posed by the debris, Johnson said NASA carried out an immediate analysis to determine whether the space station faced any increased risk. The station, carrying three crew members, circles the globe at an altitude of about 220 miles in an orbit tilted 51.6 degrees to the equator. "There are two issues: the immediate threat and a longer-term threat," he said. "It turns out, when you have a collision like this the debris is thrown very energetically both to higher orbits and to lower orbits. So there are actually debris from this event which we believe are going through the space station's altitude already. Most of it is not, most of it is still clustered up where the event took place. But a small number are going through station's altitude. "Yesterday, we did an assessment of what the risk might be to station and we found it's going to be very, very small. As time goes on, those debris will (come down) some over months, most over years and decades and as the big ones come down they'll be tracked, we'll see them and the worst-case scenario, we'll just dodge them if we have to. It's the small things you can't see are the ones that can do you harm." Asked if other satellites might be at risk, Johnson said "technically, yes. What we're doing now is trying to quantify that risk. That's a work in progress. It's only been 24 hours. We put first things first, which is station and preparing for the next shuttle mission." Most, if not all, of the debris is expected to eventually burn up in Earth's atmosphere. From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com Thu Feb 12 13:05:25 2009 From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 10:05:25 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] freebies all gone Message-ID: <976920.68543.qm@web57807.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi list.Dozens of emails for freebies.Whew!!!Oh well,all of them are gone and all are going out today. ? Steve R.Arnold,Chicago! http://chicagometeorites.net/ From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Thu Feb 12 13:14:35 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 10:14:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] International Meteor Conference 2009 Message-ID: <200902121814.KAA15617@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://www.imo.net/imc2009/ International Meteor Conference 2009 September 24-27, 2009 Porec, Croatia The International Meteor Organization (IMO) will hold its next annual International Meteor Conference (IMC) in Porec from September 24 till 27, 2009. Both amateur and professional astronomers are welcome to join us in this four-day event. The location of the conference is in the town Porec, located on the western coast of the Istria peninsula in northen Croatia. This page provides information for people interested in the IMC and preparing their travel and stay in Croatia From codale0806 at rogers.com Thu Feb 12 14:33:58 2009 From: codale0806 at rogers.com (Charles O'Dale) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 11:33:58 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Indochina Tektites References: Message-ID: <466441.16577.qm@web88008.mail.re2.yahoo.com> RE: The ongoing mystery of where is the source of the Indochina and Australia tektites; An interesting "feature" is revealed in the new Google Ocean. To me it seems that there is a central peaked crater?1317 metres deep at: N 13* 46.29"? E 111* 20.05" Could this be the "missing crater" that is the source of the Asian tektites? Cool EH? Chuck O'Dale http://ottawa-rasc.ca/wiki/index.php?title=Odale-Articles From bristolia at yahoo.com Thu Feb 12 15:11:29 2009 From: bristolia at yahoo.com (Paul) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 12:11:29 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] A Martian Giant's Causeway (Columnar Basalt Observed on Mars) Message-ID: <720869.55746.qm@web36203.mail.mud.yahoo.com> A Martian Giant's Causeway by Chris Rowan February 11, 2009, A Martian Giant's Causeway http://scienceblogs.com/highlyallochthonous/2009/02/a_martian_giants_causeway.php?utm_source=sbhomepage&utm_medium=link&utm_content=channellink Milazzo, M. P., L.P. Keszthelyi, W.L. Jaeger, M. Rosiek, S. Mattson, C. Verba, R.A. Beyer, P.E. Geissler, A.S. McEwen, 2009, Discovery of columnar jointing on Mars. Geology. vol. 37, no. 2, pp. 171-174 DOI: 10.1130/G25187A.1 Abstract at http://geology.gsapubs.org/cgi/content/abstract/37/2/171 Yours, Paul H. From bristolia at yahoo.com Thu Feb 12 15:12:21 2009 From: bristolia at yahoo.com (Paul) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 12:12:21 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Life forms May Have Evolved In Ancient Hot Springs On Mars Message-ID: <485062.19645.qm@web36204.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Life forms May Have Evolved In Ancient Hot Springs On Mars Science Daily, Feb. 12, 2009 http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/02/090212112829.htm Evidence of Ancient Hot Springs on Mars Detailed in Astrobiology Journal, Vicki Cohn, Mary Ann Liebert, Inc. publishers http://www.liebertpub.com/prdetails.aspx?pr_id=693 Allen C. C., and D. Z. Oehler, in press, A Case for Ancient Springs in Arabia Terra, Mars. Astrobiology. PDF file can be found at http://www.liebertonline.com/doi/pdfplus/10.1089/ast.2008.0239 Yours, Paul H. From epgrondine at yahoo.com Thu Feb 12 17:01:49 2009 From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 14:01:49 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] new Mars boxes, etc. Message-ID: <189544.37857.qm@web36902.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello eveyone - What can be said about Martin and Stefan's new Mars boxes? WOW! Their little Moon chip box which I acquired from them 2 years ago at Tucson never fails to delight the young people when I give my little introduction to meteorites talk at powwows. I regret to say that the small stoney iron slice which I acquired from Anne Black broke in two during my travels, but I am hoping to get two rather tough small vinyl sleeves for the two remaining pieces, which should work well. While in Tucson I spoke with Larry about doing an article on Native American meteorite traditions for "Meteorite", but then was distracted by the discussion of Hibben and other anthropological details, and personal matters. About all that I can remember of them now are the Cherokee traditions available from Mooney, and perhaps I'll be able to type them up and pass them on to the list. Given Mative American value of meteorites, I realize now that they would make a great item to sell at powwow alongside my book - very small stones, say end price in the $10-$20 range. I think those small stones Chicago Steve gives away would work fine for that purpose - the small Canyon Diablo oxidized pieces in the $5 end price range might work also. (It's too bad the museum folks there never thought of doing little photo boxes for them.) But I have no money for inventory right now, and my powwow schedule for this year is uncertain at the current time. It is unfortunate that this thought did not come to me much earlier. E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas PS 1 - I need to get in touch with Ken Tankersley, if anyone can help. PS 2 - May I suggest the names "Chicago" Steve and "Brenham" Steve to the two Arnold's? From michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com Wed Feb 11 19:31:31 2009 From: michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com (Michael Gilmer) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 16:31:31 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Bogus indochinites? Nope, they are real. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <715068.478.qm@web58402.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi Listees! A couple of weeks ago, I posted about some indochinites that I bought from a vendor in Hong Kong. After doing some research on the seller, I discovered that he had been red-flagged in the past for selling fake moldavite. This made me uneasy, but the money was already spent. So all I could do was wait until they showed up. Well, they arrived. And they are real. Not a surprise, but still a relief. Now I know that I paid too much for them, but at least they are genuine. I would like to purchase a half-kilo or kilo of indochinites of smallish to medium size. (say 4-10 grams each) If anyone has some for sale cheap, contact me offlist. Best regards and clear skies, MikeG ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... --- On Mon, 2/2/09, meteorite-list-request at meteoritecentral.com wrote: > From: meteorite-list-request at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: Meteorite-list Digest, Vol 65, Issue 5 > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Monday, February 2, 2009, 10:33 AM > Send Meteorite-list mailing list submissions to > meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > or, via email, send a message with subject or body > 'help' to > meteorite-list-request at meteoritecentral.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > meteorite-list-owner at meteoritecentral.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more > specific > than "Re: Contents of Meteorite-list digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Tucson questions and predictions (Dave Gheesling) > 2. Test (Dean Miera) > 3. IF you want to enjoy up to 50% off you will have to > join my > ebay store list. (michael cottingham) > 4. Possible new fall: "Meteorite hits Akhnoor" > Kashmir > (Meteorite-Recon.com) > 5. AD - Alfianello and Girgenti very low price > (M come Meteorite Meteorites) > 6. Re: Green spot in chondrite (Jeff Kuyken) > 7. Re: Green spot in chondrite (Alex Gotron) > 8. Re: Bogus indochinites? (Mark Ford) > 9. AD: Lunar KREEP IMB, Double Martian, Rare > Goodies, Giant LDG, > etc. (mexicodoug at aim.com) > 10. More on green spots in stoneys (Zelimir Gabelica) > 11. test (Woreczko meteorite-list) > 12. Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - February > 2, 2009 > (Michael Johnson) > 13. superbowl good to me (steve arnold) > 14. Re: IF you want to enjoy up to 50% off you will have > to join > my ebay store list. (Carl 's) > 15. Brenhams in Lucite in Tucson (MeteorHntr at aol.com) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 22:59:24 -0500 > From: "Dave Gheesling" > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Tucson questions and > predictions > To: , > , > > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Thanks for the laughs, Sonny...some don't give a rats > a** and some are too > busy showing their own...unbelievable, yet unfortunately > increasingly > typical. Look forward to seeing everyone in Tucson, and > thanks again, Mr. > Johnson and Ms. Delray, for the great pics and videos! > All best, > Dave > www.fallingrocks.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On > Behalf Of > wahlperry at aol.com > Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 12:33 PM > To: geraldbensman at live.com; > meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Tucson questions and > predictions > > Dear Gerald, > > something??? Who gives a > rats ass if anyone gets your FREE autograph and photo > opportunitues to first 200 people. LOL There's not even 200 people in > the whole world that > knows who you are and even if they did- you're not some > god worthy of > > > Of course this is a JOKE...I really meant to say unlimited > autographs and > photo opportunities!!! > > Sonny > > P.S. I hope to see NO line cutting at this event! > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Gerald Bensman > To: wahlperry at aol.com > Sent: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 8:34 am > Subject: [meteorite-list] Tucson questions and predictions > > > > "To make everyone happy for the high cost of travel, > rooms, food etc I will > be giving FREE autographs and photo opportunities to the > first 200 people." > ? > LOL- it that supposed to be some kind of a joke or > something???? Who gives a > rats ass if anyone gets your FREE autograph and photo > opportunitues to the > first 200 people. LOL? There's not even 200 people in > the whole world that > knows who you are and even if they did- you're not some > god worthy of > wasting anyones time getting your autograph.LOL > ? > Gerald > > Windows Live? Hotmail?:?more than just e-mail. Check it > out. = > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 21:51:49 -0700 > From: Dean Miera > Subject: [meteorite-list] Test > To: > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" > > > > Test > _________________________________________________________________ > Windows Live? Hotmail??more than just e-mail. > http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_howitworks_012009 > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 22:55:35 -0700 > From: michael cottingham > Subject: [meteorite-list] IF you want to enjoy up to 50% > off you will > have to join my ebay store list. > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; > delsp=yes > > Hello, > > I just got back from a quick trip to Tucson, mostly I was > working at > two Hospitals with friends of mine and had very little time > for the > show. > > I want to tell you about my "many sales" these > last 6 months, > especially the last 3 months. I have been working with a > family-a > mother and son who have a serious medical crisis in their > life. The > son has terminal cancer throughout his body, but especially > in the > brain. I have been helping them out with expenses. The boy > is 7 years > old. She is a single mom with a 7 year old boy who is > dying. They are > not relatives, but just well loved members in our > community. > > So, because of my relentless sales-I have raised about > $5,000.00 for > this family and for those of you who have purchased from me > thanks. On > the other hand those of you who have whined and cried like > babies > because of the extra sale posts-I really don't care > what you think. > Sorry. > > Anyway, if you want to enjoy a upcoming - 50% off on select > items in > my ebay store- you will have to sign up by going through my > home page > and sign up for the newsletter thing on the bottom left. > The sale will > be in the near future. IT WILL NOT APPEAR ON THE MET-LIST. > Money > from this 50% off sale will go to help this boy and his > mother. > > http://stores.ebay.com/voyage-botanica-natural-history > > > Thanks and Best Wishes > > Michael > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2009 07:25:51 +0100 > From: "Meteorite-Recon.com" > > Subject: [meteorite-list] Possible new fall: > "Meteorite hits Akhnoor" > Kashmir > To: > Message-ID: > <26074023.1654631233555951569.JavaMail.servlet at kundenserver> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > There is a news report on a new fall in Kashmir, of > Saturday night, January 31, 2009, 11:25 p.m. local time: > > "AZHAR RAFIQIE > > Srinagar, Feb 1: A meteorite hit Akhnoor area in Jammu, > Saturday night following which many astronomical > organizations rushed their teams to study the phenomenon on > the spot. > > The meteorite, according to the locals, descended in the > open ground at 11.25 pm. However, it didn?t cause any damage > to life or property, owing to its smaller size and low > velocity, the locals added. > Many astronomical organizations including Indian Space > Research Organization, TATA Institute of Research and the > Kashmir University dispatched their teams to the area. > > One of the experts, who was on the spot, told Greater > Kashmir over phone, ?The meteorite was not that big in size > otherwise it would have caused much damage due to its > impact. It can prove more dangerous if its velocity and size > is larger. It can cause serious damage and create a huge > crater on earth.? > > He said that facts would only come to fore after the > research would be over. ?We are assessing the samples and > the impact area. We would be able to come to any conclusion > after the research is over,? he added. > > Meteorites are the parts of solar system and keep hitting > earth. When it enters the atmosphere, impact pressure causes > the body to heat-up and emit light, thus forming a fireball, > also known as a meteor or shooting star. > Most meteorites disintegrate when entering the earth?s > atmosphere. However, an estimated 500 meteorites ranging in > size from marbles to basketballs or larger do reach the > surface each year; only 5 or 6 of these are typically > recovered and made known to scientists." > > end of quote > > source: > http://www.greaterkashmir.com/full_story.asp?Date=2_2_2009&ItemID=29&cat=21 > > Best regards > > Svend Buhl > > --- > www.meteorite-recon.com > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2009 09:06:16 +0100 > From: "M come Meteorite Meteorites" > > Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Alfianello and Girgenti very > low price > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Message-ID: > <4986a978.1f1.4da5.709097206 at webmaildh3.aruba.it> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > I sale 2 pieces of historical italian material for a very > low price > > Alfianello - 20.4 grams end piece with copy of old labels > Euro 800,00 > > Girgenti - Slice from British Museum London gr.7.9 Euro > 700,00 from the 800,00 I have pay years ago > > For photos and info contact me > > matteo > > M come Meteorite Meteoriti > info at mcomemeteorite.it > http://www.mcomemeteorite.it > http://www.mcomemeteorite.info > Mindat Gallery > http://www.mindat.org/gallery-5018.html > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 19:19:09 +1100 > From: "Jeff Kuyken" > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Green spot in chondrite > To: > , > Message-ID: <5530247C46EA41628F57289CDC4A53DC at JeffPC> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; > charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Hi Bernd and Rob, > > That would be my first guess too Bernd. But the crust has > me stumped. I > can't work out if it's a weathering effect or > different material underneath. > It does look similar to eucritic fusion crust even down to > the cracking > though. Weird! > > Cheers, > > Jeff > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 7:02 AM > Subject: [meteorite-list] Green spot in chondrite > > > > Hello Rob and List, > > > > > http://home.planet.nl/~rlenssen/green_spot_in_chondrite.jpg > > > > "Can anybody explain to me what I am seeing > here?" > > > > This may be a magnesium-rich orthopyroxene crystal > => hypersthene > > (Mg,Fe)SiO3 > > > > What do others think? > > > > Best, > > > > Bernd > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 10:30:40 +0200 > From: Alex Gotron > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Green spot in chondrite > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Seems like kryptonite to me... > > On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 6:02 AM, > wrote: > > Hello Rob and List, > > > > > http://home.planet.nl/~rlenssen/green_spot_in_chondrite.jpg > > > > "Can anybody explain to me what I am seeing > here?" > > > > This may be a magnesium-rich orthopyroxene crystal > => hypersthene (Mg,Fe)SiO3 > > > > What do others think? > > > > Best, > > > > Bernd > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 09:33:16 -0000 > From: "Mark Ford" > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Bogus indochinites? > To: > Message-ID: > <29A9DB45B84970458190D7D39BD42C494FAFC4 at gamma.ssl.atw> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > Actually I've seen plenty of dodgey black glass > indochinites for sale in > gem shops, (its a bit obvious when they have sometimes have > perfectly > flat edges or mold lines and the glass style varies) and > also there have > been quite a few repro button Australites for sale on ebay, > (admittedly > they are clearly labeled as glass reproductions, and they > are great if > you can't afford the real thing), but who's to say > they will always be > labeled as reproduction when sold on again in the future? > > Green glass moldavite is also way too easy to fake, (it can > be either > melted and tumbled green beer or wine bottle glass). > > As always - know your seller and only deal with those you > trust, always > ask questions! > > As far as I know the only way to be 100% sure is either > chemical isotope > testing, or the destructive 'thermal stress test' > using heat/water and > watching it shatter!! > > > Mark > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On > Behalf Of > Michael Gilmer > Sent: 31 January 2009 22:35 > To: riffraff at timewarp.de > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Bogus indochinites? > > Hi Norbert, > > I don't have any photos yet, but I will snap some as > soon as the > specimens arrive. > > Here is a link to the auction. It has a photo, but you > can't tell > much by looking at it. I am inclined to believe they are > real > because what motive would someone have to fake something as > common > as indochinites? But, as an aspiring dealer, my reputation > is > important to me, so I am not going to sell anything I am > unsure of. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190281828566 > > A few people emailed me about this - most share the opinion > that > indochinites are too common and cheap to be worth faking. > Moldavite > can be expensive, so there is good motive there for a > scammer to > fake it. Indochinites I am not so sure about. Heck, if I > was a > scammer and wanted to make bogus tektites, I'd find > some way to > manufacture fake Australite buttons - at least those sell > for > good money. > > Regards and clear skies, > > MikeG > > > > ......................................................... > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and > http://www.glassthrower.com > .......................................................... > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: > > This email and any files transmitted with it are > confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please > notify us. Email info at ssl.gb.com. You should not copy or use > this email or attachment(s) for any purpose nor disclose > their contents to any other person. > > GENERAL STATEMENT: > > Southern Scientific Ltd's computer systems may be > monitored and communications carried on them recorded, to > secure the effective operation of the system and for other > lawful purposes. > > Registered address Rectory Farm Rd, Sompting, Lancing, W > Sussex BN15 0DP. Company No 1800317 > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2009 04:48:25 -0500 > From: mexicodoug at aim.com > Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Lunar KREEP IMB, Double > Martian, Rare > Goodies, Giant LDG, etc. > To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Message-ID: > <8CB53328732735A-16C0-1102 at webmail-mf02.sysops.aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; > format=flowed > > Dear List, > > I think you will find the following list of items for a > GREAT PLANETARY > AND OTHER GOODIES' sale truly exciting and exceptional. > Please enjoy a > look and share our excitement. We tried to make the pricing > level as > incredible as the pieces are rare and exciting. Regarding > the Lunar, > given the amazing characteristics of this little specimen, > and the very > low tkw including all pairings: > With all due respect, this $550/g price for this single > specimen is > likely never to be repeated except after this Tucson > celebration fire > sale to raise fast money for an upcoming expedition. It is > so hard not > to be emotionally charged about this :-)... > > The GREAT PLANETARY AND OTHER GOODIES' sale link is: > > www.diogenite.com/Tucson > > We are doing this to ends meet at Tucson and finance some > world class > meteoriting - Sacrificing the following Planetary > meteorites and other > rare, real goodies, plus Giant Libyan Desert Glass > Specimens, at up to > HALF THE PRICE of their already LOW, LOW, did I mention > sinfully LOW > prices! No BS, just deals unplugged to move... > > Our motivation is to your benefit for these exceptional and > rare items, > without further ado, gimmicks and glabbrodygook, these will > not only > hold their own against recent planetary offerings, but to > experts, in > our opinion compare favorably (check out that exciting (at > least to me > - it's got everything including KREEP and really > deserves the sort of > announcement for the best of the best, but the little > material may be > gone by then... worked out Lunar tkw = 126g including all > earthly > pairing). > > PayPal is accepted with a smile! In Tucson, 2% cash > discount and free > hand delivery. For postage in the US kindly add $5.50 > priority mail > (plus $2 for insurance up to $100 USD and $1 for each > additional $100 > or fraction of it). First come first serve. > > > DaG 1037 Martian Shergottite Big endpiece and slices > FRESH Allende (CV3) collected decades ago > Dho 1170/1128 group FRESH Ureilite hefty crusted endpiece > Dho 1442 Lunar (KREEP Impact Melt Breccia with Mare Basalt > very low > extended tkw - unpaired) > Dronino (Ataxite anon) (yesterday-s lowest prices and the > field is now > exhausted) > Libyan Desert Glass 2 HUGE!!! pieces 2 - 2.5 kg > Monze (L6) complete 90%+ crusted stone: Witnessed fall Oct > 5, 1950 from > tropical Africa > NWA 1664 FRESH solid Howardite, nice slice from single > crusted stone > NWA 2986 Martian shergottite likely pairing mini endpiece > and razor > thin whole slices approx. 1 cm in diameter and only a > quarter to a > third of a gram! > Seymchan siderite cherry picked bright slice at rock-bottom > prices that > have become history precisely this week > Beautiful BIG Tatahouines, one with incredible lamella - > o-pyroxene > crystalline layers, and another with some fine impact > horsetails > Thuathe (H4/5) July 21, 2002 witnessed fall in the > temporate southern > tip of Africa, fully crusted 99%+ > > Kindly excuse the rushed webpage, but there is so much > going on here in > Tucson that it is very difficult to concentrate for long > period of time > a good webpage requires. > > Great Health and Great Hunting, > Doug > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2009 11:50:49 +0100 > From: Zelimir Gabelica > Subject: [meteorite-list] More on green spots in stoneys > To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, > bernd.pauli at paulinet.de > Message-ID: > <5.0.2.1.2.20090202095139.03171310 at pop.univ-mulhouse.fr> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; > format=flowed > > Hi Bernd, Jeff, Rob, all, > > Bernd, I would fairly agree with your conclusions regarding > the green phase > discovered by Rob. > Many silicate minerals that contain larger quantities of Mg > sometimes > indeed often do show greenish shades. > > If we just consider the pyroxene group (quite likely > represented in stone > meteorites though pyroxenes are far from being the only > silicate group in > stoneys), Augite (Ca,Mg,Fe2+)2Si2O6, Aegirine-Augite > (Ca,Na)(Mg, Fe2+, > Fe3+)Si2O6, Enstatite or Clinoenstatite (both Mg2Si2O6) and > especially > diopside, (CaMgSi2O6) often show green-like colors, at > least when from > terrestrial origin. > > There are 22 mineral species in the pyroxene group, some > other of them also > containing, among other, Mg2+ cations (e.g. Donpeacorite, > Jervisite, > Kanoite, Omphacite, Petedunite or...Pigeonite, this latter > mineral being > very often present in ordinary chondrites!) > > Still considering the pyroxene family, an interesting > pyroxene candidate > that would readily involve green color would be Kosmochlor, > thus NaCr3+Si2O6. > > In this case, I'd expect a frank green color, that most > of Cr3+ bearing > salts (silicates) would exhibit (synthetic silicate > chemistry). > > The mineral, as found in various terrestrial deposits, is > indeed said to > exhibit a "pale green" or > "emerald-green" color (Mindat). > Its name etymology is interesting ("Kosmos" = > Cosmic origin, while "chlor" > = "green" in Greek) > > I don't know if this phase was ever found in stone > meteorites but it was > reported to occur in at least 3 irons: Toluca (where it was > first > discovered), Coahuila and Canon Diablo... > > I can provide a pic showing green kosmochlor from Myanmar > (Mindat), where > it apparently forms solid solutions with Jadeite and Na-Cr > amphiboles (see: > Mevel & Kienast, Bull. Miner. 109 (1987), 617); more > recent data can be > found in: "Shi et al., Miner. Mag., 69 (2005), > 1059". > > Can someone from the List host some of my archive pics ? > > Also inteersting is the fact that pale green Cr- and > Na-rich diopside > (kosmochlor-bearing diopside) was observed in anhydrous > group I mantle > xenoliths (dunite, wehrlite, harzburgite, clinopyroxenite) > hosted by > Pliocene-Quaternary hawaiite from the Ngatutura volcanic > field of the North > Island, New Zealand (Ikehata et al., Smithsonian/NASA > Astrophysics Data > System, Amer. Geophys. union, Fall 2004 meeting abstracts). > > Natalyite, Na(V,Cr)Si2O6 is also a potentially interesting > candidate (still > contains Cr3+ ions that are partly isostructurally replaced > by V3+ ions; it > is "light green to yellow-green" (pic on request) > > Finally, I have in my meteorite coll. archives 3 pics > showing a few similar > pale-green millimetric rounded inclusions (most probably > not chondrules, > although...who knows ?). > They were taken under high magnification in daylight by > Roger Warin, our > local pic expert and thin-section specialist (see web site: > www.agab.be , > click on "thin sections"). These green spots are > from my 459 g full slice > "Belle Plaine" (Kansas) (242x195x5 mm). > > Would be nice if someone (Bernd or...?) is willing to host > these 5 pics > should someone wish to have a look Contact me off list. > > Very interesting subject... > > All my best to all, expecting many of you had weird fun in > Tucson (pics > expected...) > > Zelimir > > > > > A 20:02 01/02/2009 +0000, vous avez ?crit : > >Hello Rob and List, > > > >http://home.planet.nl/~rlenssen/green_spot_in_chondrite.jpg > > > >"Can anybody explain to me what I am seeing > here?" > > > >This may be a magnesium-rich orthopyroxene crystal > => hypersthene (Mg,Fe)SiO3 > > > >What do others think? > > > >Best, > > > >Bernd > > > >______________________________________________ > >http://www.meteoritecentral.com > >Meteorite-list mailing list > >Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > Prof. Zelimir Gabelica > Universit? de Haute Alsace > ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, > 3, Rue A. Werner, > F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France > Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 > Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 11 > Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 12:27:31 +0100 > From: "Woreczko meteorite-list" > > Subject: [meteorite-list] test > To: > Message-ID: <012501c98529$3e0cf640$9301a8c0 at zeus> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Ha > test > woreczko > > > > www.woreczko.pl > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 12 > Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 03:28:23 -0800 (PST) > From: Michael Johnson > Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the > Day - > February 2, 2009 > To: Meteorite List > > Message-ID: > <16458674.352621233574103672.JavaMail.root at mbs5.homesteadmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > > http://www.rocksfromspace.org/February_2_2009.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 13 > Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 04:35:24 -0800 (PST) > From: steve arnold > Subject: [meteorite-list] superbowl good to me > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Message-ID: > <997658.89268.qm at web57801.mail.re3.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Morning to all and especially the arizoners.Sorry for your > loss last night.We thought they had it,but oooohhh > nnnnoooooo.Pittsburg had to win.We were cardinal fans last > night.But any way,I won the first half last night.$500 on a > $10 square.More $$$$$ for tucson.It's amazing what 7 and > 7 will get you.4 days till the arrival.Have a great day all > and to all the sellers in tucson,may you all have an even > better selling day.Just remember to save a couple of pieces > for me. > ? > Steve R.Arnold,Chicago! > href="http://chicagometeorites.net/">http://chicagometeorites.net/ > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 14 > Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 06:03:05 -0800 > From: Carl 's > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] IF you want to enjoy up to > 50% off you > will have to join my ebay store list. > To: > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" > > > > Hello Michael, > > Please accept my small donation for your friends. I still > have your address and I'll send it off today. > > Peace and health. Carl > > > > > > > Hello, > > I just got back from a quick trip to Tucson, mostly I was > working at > two Hospitals with friends of mine and had very little time > for the > show. > I want to tell you about my "many sales" these > last 6 months, > especially the last 3 months. I have been working with a > family-a > mother and son who have a serious medical crisis in their > life. The > son has terminal cancer throughout his body, but especially > in the > brain. I have been helping them out with expenses. The boy > is 7 years > old. She is a single mom with a 7 year old boy who is > dying. They are > not relatives, but just well loved members in our > community. > So, because of my relentless sales-I have raised about > $5,000.00 for > this family and for those of you who have purchased from me > thanks. On > the other hand those of you who have whined and cried like > babies > because of the extra sale posts-I really don't care > what you think. > Sorry. > Anyway, if you want to enjoy a upcoming - 50% off on select > items in > my ebay store- you will have to sign up by going through my > home page > and sign up for the newsletter thing on the bottom left. > The sale will > be in the near future. IT WILL NOT APPEAR ON THE MET-LIST. > Money > from this 50% off sale will go to help this boy and his > mother. > http://stores.ebay.com/voyage-botanica-natural-history > > > Thanks and Best Wishes > > Michael > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [ > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Windows Live? Hotmail?:?more than just e-mail. > http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_explore_012009 > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 15 > Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 11:33:24 EST > From: MeteorHntr at aol.com > Subject: [meteorite-list] Brenhams in Lucite in Tucson > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > Hello List, > > I arrived in Tucson last night after the long drive. It > is great to be back > in town. > > In addition to seeing many familiar faces, I was excited > to have a chance to > see the batch of Brenham meteorite slices that Geoff > Notkin and I > commissioned to be placed in Lucite. The shipment arrived > in Tucson on Saturday. > > Not only should this embedment be a permanent fix on the > Brenham rusting > issue, these pieces have turned out to be VERY beautiful. > Many will not even > recognize these as Brenham. > > The meteorite that we took these slices from was from a > Brenham specimen > that Geoff and I found a couple of months ago during the > filming of our new TV > show that is scheduled to air on Discovery's Science > Channel in May. So, the > items are more than just pretty Brenham slices, they are > affordable mementos > of the TV program as well. > > I am pretty sure this is the first one-hour TV show > entirely devoted to > meteorite hunting, so here is your chance to grab a piece > of history. This is a > true meteorite collectible. > > When the TV show airs, and your friends who know that you > are into > meteorites say "Hey, did you see that new TV show > about meteorites?" You can respond > "Yea, I saw it, and not only that, I have an actual > piece of that first > meteorite that Geoff and Steve dug up on the show, right > here..." And you can > hand them your very own slice in Lucite. > > We had just 100 part slices, all the same size, put into > Lucite, and if you > are in Tucson, you have to stop buy Geoff and Anne's > room to take a look at > them. Some of the slices have VERY green colored > crystals, and a few are very > translucent, enough so that they almost have an > "Esquel look" to them when > the light comes through from behind. > > We are making these 100 each a "Limited Edition Tucson > Show 2009 > Collectible." Each numbered "___out of > 100" with a C.O.A. and a photo from the TV > shoot included. > > There are 8 pieces that I "high graded" as > exceptional, and those will have > a premium on their price. As for the other 92, they are > all the same size, > but there are varying degrees of quality in the pieces, > and in their > translucency, but all of those will be kept at the same > basic unit price. > > So, I would suggest that if anyone is interested in > looking at them, or in > buying one, the sooner you get by Geoff and Anne's > room at the InnSuites, the > better the remaining selection you will have to choose > from. > > On another note, I am in town with a batch of other > specimens that I am > carrying around. A lot of little items. So if anyone is > interested in looking > at what I have, call me on my Cell at 620-770-9612 and we > can arrange to meet > up and I can show you want I have. > > Oh, and the Birthday Bash is revving up to be the best ever > this Friday...I > can't wait. I hope to get to see many of you there > again this year. > > OK, I am off now to check out all the stuff here... > > Steve Arnold #1 > Birthday Boy #2 > > **************Great Deals on Dell Laptops. Starting at > $499. > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1217883258x1201191827/aol?redir=http://www.dell.com/co > ntent/products/features.aspx/laptops_great_deals?c=us%26cs=19%26l=en%26s=d > hs%26~ck=anavml) > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > End of Meteorite-list Digest, Vol 65, Issue 5 > ********************************************* From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Thu Feb 12 19:03:14 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 16:03:14 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Dawn Falling For Mars Message-ID: <200902130003.QAA24925@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/features.cfm?feature=2031 NASA Spacecraft Falling For Mars Jet Propulsion Laboratory February 12, 2009 Launched in September of 2007, and propelled by any one of a trio of hyper-efficient ion engines, NASA's Dawn spacecraft passed the orbit of Mars last summer. At that time, the asteroid belt (where Dawn's two targets, asteroid Vesta and the dwarf planet Ceres reside), had never been closer. In early July the spacecraft began to lose altitude, falling back towards the inner solar system. Then on October 31, 2008, after 270 days of almost continuous thrusting, the ion drive turned off. "Not only are our thrusters off and we are dropping in altitude, we are plunging toward Mars," said Marc Rayman, the Dawn project's chief engineer from NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif. "And everybody here on Dawn could not be happier." The team's joy at plummeting towards a planet named for the Roman god of war is not unfounded. Mars, the final stop for many a NASA spacecraft, was always an important, and weighty, waypoint for the Dawn mission. It all has to do with one of the heavy subjects of rocket science, gravity assists. A gravity assist is the use of the relative movement and gravity of a planet or other celestial body to alter the path and speed of a spacecraft, typically in order to save fuel, time and expense. A spacecraft traveling to an outer planet (or in this case asteroid) will decelerate because the incessant tug of the sun's gravity slows it down. By flying a spacecraft close by a large planet and its large gravity field, some of the planet's speed as it orbits the sun is transferred to the spacecraft. In Dawn's case, it is using the Red Planet's tremendous angular momentum (the speed at which Mars orbits the sun) to give it a little extra oomph. "A big oomph actually," said Rayman. "The gravity of Mars will change Dawn's path about the sun, enlarging its elliptical orbit and sending the probe farther from the sun. It will also change Dawn's orbital plane by more than 5 degrees. This is important because Dawn has to maneuver into the same plane in which Vesta orbits the sun." If Dawn had to perform these orbital adjustments on its own with no Mars gravitational deflection, it would have required the spacecraft to fire up its engines and change velocity by more than 5,800 miles per hour (9,330 kilometers per second). Such velocity changes would have required Dawn to carry an extra 230 pounds (104 kilograms) of xenon fuel. "Without the gravity assist, our mission would not have been affordable, even with the extraordinary capability of the ion propulsion system," said Rayman. "That's why we are happy Dawn is now plunging toward Mars." Also happy for the opportunity to fly past the fourth rock from the sun is Dawn's science team. With asteroid Vesta still more than two-and-a-half years away, Mars provides the perfect opportunity to give their highly-tuned instruments a workout. "It is fortuitous that we need Mars to get out to Vesta and Ceres," said Carol Raymond, Dawn's deputy principal investigator, from JPL. "Since there are other spacecraft currently operating at Mars with similar instrumentation, we will be able to check our measurements against their knowledge of Mars, and carry that information farther out into the solar system." But the Mars gravity assist is not the final hurdle on Dawn's road to the asteroid belt. The subsequent 30 months include more than 27 months of blue-green tinged ion thrusting to successfully rendezvous with Dawn's first target - Vesta. While an accurately flown encounter with the planet Mars makes a big difference in the life of NASA's asteroid pioneer, the planet itself does not come out unscathed. Weighing in at all of 2,500 pounds (1,134 kilograms), Dawn has its own mass and thereby its own gravitational field. In contrast, the somewhat more massive planet is almost 600 million-million-million times more substantial than that of the spacecraft. "The laws of physics tell us that Mars will pay a price for helping Dawn," said Rayman. "The flyby will cause Mars to slow in its orbit enough that after one year, its position will be off by about the width of an atom. If you add that up, it will take about 180 million years for Mars to be out of position by one inch (2.5 centimeters). We appreciate Mars making that sacrifice so Dawn can conduct its exciting mission of discovery in the asteroid belt." Dawn's 4.8-billion-kilometer (3-billion-mile) odyssey includes orbiting asteroid Vesta in 2011 and the dwarf planet Ceres in 2015. These two giants of the asteroid belt have been witness to much of our solar system's history. By using Dawn's instruments to study both objects for several months, scientists can more accurately compare and contrast the two. Dawn's science instrument suite will measure geology, elemental and mineral composition, shape, surface topography, geomorphology and tectonic history, and will also seek water-bearing minerals. In addition, the Dawn spacecraft's orbit characteristics around Vesta and Ceres will be used to measure the celestial bodies' masses and gravity fields. The Dawn mission to Vesta and Ceres is managed by JPL, a division of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena, for NASA's Science Mission Directorate, Washington. The University of California, Los Angeles, is responsible for overall Dawn mission science. Other scientific partners include Planetary Science Institute, Tucson, Ariz.; Max Planck Institute for Solar System Research, Katlenburg-Lindau, Germany; DLR Institute for Planetary Research, Berlin; Italian National Institute for Astrophysics, Rome; and the Italian Space Agency. Orbital Sciences Corporation of Dulles, Va., designed and built the Dawn spacecraft. To learn more about Dawn and its mission to the asteroid belt, visit: http://www.nasa.gov/dawn Media contact: DC Agle/JPL 818-393-9011 From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Thu Feb 12 19:07:28 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 16:07:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Spirit Gets Energy Boost from Cleaner Solar Panels Message-ID: <200902130007.QAA26120@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2009-020a Spirit Gets Energy Boost from Cleaner Solar Panels Jet Propulsion Laboratory February 12, 2009 Mars Exploration Rover Mission Status Report A small but important uptick in electrical output from the solar panels on NASA's Mars Exploration Rover Spirit this month indicates a beneficial Martian wind has blown away some of the dust that has accumulated on the panels. The cleaning boosts Spirit's daily energy supply by about 30 watt-hours, to about 240 watt-hours from 210 watt-hours. The rover uses about 180 watt-hours per day for basic survival and communications, so this increase roughly doubles the amount of discretionary power for activities such as driving and using instruments. Thirty watt-hours is the amount of energy used to light a 30-watt bulb for one hour. "We will be able to use this energy to do significantly more driving," said Colette Lohr, a rover mission manager at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. "Our drives have been averaging about 50 minutes, and energy has usually been the limiting factor. We may be able to increase that to drives of an hour and a half." Spirit has driven about 9 meters (about 30 feet) since getting around a rock that temporarily blocked its progress on Jan. 31. The team's goal in coming weeks is to navigate the rover over or around a low plateau called "Home Plate" to get to an area targeted for scientific studies on the other side of Home Plate. JPL's Jennifer Herman, a rover team engineer, found the first evidence for the new cleaning event in engineering data from the Martian day 1,812 of Spirit's mission on the Red Planet (Feb. 6, 2009) and confirmed it from the following two days' data. Before the event, dust buildup on the solar array had reached the point where only 25 percent of sunlight hitting the array was getting past the dust to be used by the photovoltaic cells. Afterwards, that increased to 28 percent. "It may not sound like a lot, but it is an important increase," Herman said. The last prior cleaning event that was as beneficial as this one was in June 2007. Winds cleaned off more of the dust that time, but a dust storm in subsequent weeks undid much of the benefit. Spirit's twin rover, Opportunity, drove 135.9 meters (446 feet) on Feb. 10. Opportunity's cumulative odometry is 14.36 kilometers (8.92 miles) since landing in January 2004, including 2.58 kilometers (1.6 miles) since climbing out of Victoria Crater on Aug. 28, 2008. Spirit and Opportunity have been operating on Mars for more than five years in exploration missions originally planned to last for three months. JPL, a division of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena, manages the Mars Exploration Rover project for NASA's Science Mission Directorate, Washington. Media contact: Guy Webster 818-354-6278 Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. Guy.Webster at jpl.nasa.gov 2009-020 From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Thu Feb 12 19:13:57 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 16:13:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] As Dawn Approaches Mars, PSI Scientist Gear Up For GRaND Tests Message-ID: <200902130013.QAA27900@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> Feb. 12, 2009 FROM: Ed Stiles Public Information Office Planetary Science Institute 520-248-7119 psinews at psi.edu AS DAWN APPROACHES MARS, PSI SCIENTISTS GEAR UP FOR GRaND TESTS The Dawn spacecraft, which began its journey to the asteroid belt in 2007, is now nearing Mars, and scientists at the Tucson-based Planetary Science Institute (PSI) are preparing to use the encounter to tune up Dawn's GRaND instrument. Dawn's instrument payload includes a visible-light camera, a visible-light and infrared mapping spectrometer, and GRaND (the Gamma-Ray and Neutron Detector). The GRaND team will be involved in several activities during MCA (the Mars encounter). These include: -- Pre-encounter testing and optimization of the instrument. -- Measurement of background noise levels caused by comic rays and, possibly, by energetic particles. -- Acquisition of neutron and gamma-ray data from Mars. -- Calibration of the instrument by comparing GRaND's measurements of the Martian neutron and gamma-ray output to data acquired by the Odyssey spacecraft, which has been orbiting Mars for the past seven years. "The main task between now and MCA is to make final adjustments to instrument parameters," said Tom Prettyman, a senior scientist at PSI and the lead investigator for GRaND. "Only minor adjustments -- if any -- are needed. The instrument has performed consistently since it was first turned on following launch." Dawn won't loiter at Mars. This encounter is only a slingshot flyby in which the spacecraft will speed past Mars and use the red planet's gravitational pull to increase its velocity by about 2,500 mph relative to the sun. Dawn is headed for Vesta and Ceres, the two most massive bodies in the asteroid belt, which is located between Mars and Jupiter. Scientists hope the encounters with Vesta and Ceres will help them journey back in time to answer many questions relating to the solar system's early formation. GRaND will measure the energy spectra of neutrons and gamma rays coming from the surfaces of Vesta and Ceres to determine the geochemistry of these protoplanets. The quantities of various elements on the protoplanets' surfaces will provide scientists with clues to the formation and thermal evolution of Vesta and Ceres, including the role of water in planetary development, Prettyman said. The neutrons and gamma rays that GRaND measures are emitted by the decay of long-lived radioactive elements and during the subatomic collisions that result from cosmic rays slamming into the protoplanets' surfaces. These same cosmic rays hit the spacecraft and its detectors, creating background signals that must be subtracted from the instrument's readings to arrive at accurate numbers for the neutrons and gamma rays coming from Vesta, Ceres or Mars, said PSI Senior Scientist William Feldman "Galactic cosmic rays are mostly energetic protons that interact with the spacecraft structural materials to make neutrons and gamma rays, just as they would on a planetary surface," Prettyman added. "The neutrons and gamma rays propagate through the spacecraft and wind up in our instrument. In addition, cosmic-ray interactions produce radioactive isotopes in the spacecraft structures that contribute to the background radiation measured by GRaND." Since Odyssey has been orbiting Mars for seven years, scientists know the amount of neutron and gamma-ray radiation coming from the planet's surface, and the spectroscopy data from Odyssey will be used to calibrate GRaND, Prettyman said, noting that both he and Feldman also are on the Odyssey science team. While the data acquired during the flyby will be used to calibrate the instrument, it also has value for Mars research, Prettyman said. "Any time you compare data sets, there is the potential to find something new," he said. "For Instance, Odyssey points right at the center of Mars. We don't have a lot of data where Odyssey is tipped relative to Mars like GRaND will be during the flyby. So one of the things we might learn is that we need to refine our background radiation models for Odyssey, which could ultimately have an impact on Odyssey's discoveries and our understanding of the distribution of water on Mars and the abundance of carbon dioxide and other compounds." Dawn will make its closest approach to Mars, flying within about 300 miles of the Martian surface on February 18 (Pacific Coast Time), before speeding off toward Vesta, which it will begin to orbit in 2011. After mapping Vesta, Dawn will fly on, making a three-fourths orbit around the sun before reaching Ceres in 2015. GRaND was developed by Los Alamos National Laboratory, and key sensor components were manufactured by eV Products, Eljen Technology, and Proteus, Inc. PSI is responsible for operating the instrument and analyzing data acquired during the post-launch, science phase of the mission. Dawn isn???t an acronym. Instead, it reflects the mission's purpose -- gathering data related to the dawn of our solar system. The Jet Propulsion Laboratory manages the Dawn mission for NASA's Science Mission Directorate. Christopher T. Russell, professor of geophysics and space physics at UCLA, leads the overall mission. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- CONTACT: Tom Prettyman Senior Scientist 520-622-6300 prettyman at psi.edu William Feldman Senior Scientist 505-667-7372 feldman at psi.edu PSI INFORMATION: Mark V. Sykes Director 520-622-6300 sykes at psi.edu PSI Homepage http://www.psi.edu PSI Press Releases http://www.psi.edu/press/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From mark at meteorites.cc Thu Feb 12 19:36:48 2009 From: mark at meteorites.cc (Mark Crawford) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 00:36:48 +0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] Bogus indochinites? Are they or aren't they? In-Reply-To: <715068.478.qm@web58402.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <715068.478.qm@web58402.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4994C0A0.50502@meteorites.cc> Michael Gilmer wrote: > I posted about some indochinites that I bought from a vendor in Hong Kong. After doing some research on > the seller, I discovered that he had been red-flagged in the past for selling fake moldavite. Well, they arrived. And they are real. > I don't want to sound over-cynical here, but you sound like you're saying you bought material from a known-faker, but you're now happy that what you bought was genuine. Surely either the known-faker statement is inaccurate, or the now-known-genuine claim is at best dubious? ? -- Mark's Meteorite Pages: http://meteorites.cc From michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com Thu Feb 12 19:43:05 2009 From: michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com (Michael Gilmer) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 16:43:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Bogus indochinites? Are they or aren't they? In-Reply-To: <4994C0A0.50502@meteorites.cc> Message-ID: <744624.37940.qm@web58406.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi Mark, After discussion with several list members, I agreed that the motivation to offer fake moldavite is much different than fake indochinites. Given that either could be faked with about the same effort, why would anyone manufacture a fake indochinite that sells cheaply to start with? If I was buying perfect australite buttons, I'd be alot more weary. When I received these, I examined them closely using every method at my limited disposal - using criteria I learned on a few websites pointed out to me by list members. I'm confident it's the real thing because I have a real one I bought from a trusted source and it's identical in character. If you want, I can mail you one of the ones I got from the Hong Kong moldavite faker. I'd be interested to hear another opinion on it besides my own. Contact me offlist if you want a piece of it. FWIW, I won't be purchasing any more tektites from this particular vendor - because of the moldavite issue, which I was unaware of at the time of the original purchase. Best regards, MikeG ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... --- On Thu, 2/12/09, Mark Crawford wrote: > From: Mark Crawford > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Bogus indochinites? Are they or aren't they? > To: michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Thursday, February 12, 2009, 6:36 PM > Michael Gilmer wrote: > > I posted about some indochinites that I bought from a > vendor in Hong Kong. After doing some research on > > the seller, I discovered that he had been red-flagged > in the past for selling fake moldavite. Well, they arrived. > And they are real. > I don't want to sound over-cynical here, but you sound > like you're saying you bought material from a > known-faker, but you're now happy that what you bought > was genuine. > > Surely either the known-faker statement is inaccurate, or > the now-known-genuine claim is at best dubious? > > ? > > -- Mark's Meteorite Pages: http://meteorites.cc From michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com Thu Feb 12 20:23:22 2009 From: michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com (Michael Gilmer) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 17:23:22 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Bogus indochinites? Are they or aren't they? In-Reply-To: <4994C0A0.50502@meteorites.cc> Message-ID: <975575.61696.qm@web58403.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi Mark, Here is a link to some photos of the indochinites. http://s268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/Meteorites/tektites/ Best regards, MikeG ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... --- On Thu, 2/12/09, Mark Crawford wrote: > From: Mark Crawford > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Bogus indochinites? Are they or aren't they? > To: michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Thursday, February 12, 2009, 6:36 PM > Michael Gilmer wrote: > > I posted about some indochinites that I bought from a > vendor in Hong Kong. After doing some research on > > the seller, I discovered that he had been red-flagged > in the past for selling fake moldavite. Well, they arrived. > And they are real. > I don't want to sound over-cynical here, but you sound > like you're saying you bought material from a > known-faker, but you're now happy that what you bought > was genuine. > > Surely either the known-faker statement is inaccurate, or > the now-known-genuine claim is at best dubious? > > ? > > -- Mark's Meteorite Pages: http://meteorites.cc From moutinho at bol.com.br Thu Feb 12 20:43:24 2009 From: moutinho at bol.com.br (=?utf-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Moutinho?=) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 23:43:24 -0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] CEBOLLATI: the possible biggest carbonaceous CR ever found! Message-ID: <4994d03cb3f8d_77181555555879b41c@winter7.tmail> Hello all, I would like to introduce everybody a meteorite that may be the biggest Carbonaceous CR ever found. It was found in a margin of a lake called Marin in Uruguay near a village called Cebollati. The meteorite was certainly under water for some time and it may have been preserved once Carbonaceous meteorites are very fragile. It's meteoritics origin is evident. A slice shows very obvious and distinct big chondrules on a dark gray matrix very caracteristic of CR type Carbonaceous. Certainly it is the second meteorite found in Uruguay. Depending on the analysis result, it may be the biggest single CR piece ever found. The biggest TWK is 114kg from Tafassasset but the single biggest mass is around 30kg. It may also be the first CR found in Southern Americas. It is still under analysis and I will inform the member list the result. Whole mass picture: http://amoutinho.multiply.com/photos/album/23/CEBOLLATI#1 Slice picture: http://amoutinho.multiply.com/photos/album/23/CEBOLLATI#2 Regards, Andr? moutinho IMCA #2731 From drtanuki at yahoo.com Thu Feb 12 20:44:51 2009 From: drtanuki at yahoo.com (drtanuki) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 17:44:51 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Bogus indochinites? Are they or aren't they? AD In-Reply-To: <744624.37940.qm@web58406.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <986890.78756.qm@web53205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Dear Michael and List, Anyone wanting real tektites with a KNOWN find location please contact me. I have kilos of them that are not needed for my research. Many of the tektites that are sold by Chinese dealers are NOT from the location that they claim. Many tektites are imported from Thailand, Laos, and Vietnam by the Chinese and later to be claimed to come from China. If interested, please contact me off list. Thank you. Dirk Ross...Tokyo --- On Fri, 2/13/09, Michael Gilmer wrote: > From: Michael Gilmer > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Bogus indochinites? Are they or aren't they? > To: "Mark Crawford" > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Friday, February 13, 2009, 9:43 AM > Hi Mark, > > After discussion with several list members, I agreed that > the > motivation to offer fake moldavite is much different than > fake indochinites. Given that either could be faked with > about > the same effort, why would anyone manufacture a fake > indochinite > that sells cheaply to start with? If I was buying perfect > australite buttons, I'd be alot more weary. > > When I received these, I examined them closely using every > method > at my limited disposal - using criteria I learned on a few > websites > pointed out to me by list members. I'm confident > it's the real > thing because I have a real one I bought from a trusted > source > and it's identical in character. If you want, I can > mail you > one of the ones I got from the Hong Kong moldavite faker. > I'd > be interested to hear another opinion on it besides my own. > Contact me offlist if you want a piece of it. FWIW, I > won't > be purchasing any more tektites from this particular vendor > - > because of the moldavite issue, which I was unaware of at > the time > of the original purchase. > > Best regards, > > MikeG > > > > > ......................................................... > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and > http://www.glassthrower.com > .......................................................... > > > > --- On Thu, 2/12/09, Mark Crawford > wrote: > > > From: Mark Crawford > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Bogus indochinites? Are > they or aren't they? > > To: michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com > > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > Date: Thursday, February 12, 2009, 6:36 PM > > Michael Gilmer wrote: > > > I posted about some indochinites that I bought > from a > > vendor in Hong Kong. After doing some research on > > > the seller, I discovered that he had been > red-flagged > > in the past for selling fake moldavite. Well, they > arrived. > > And they are real. > > I don't want to sound over-cynical here, but you > sound > > like you're saying you bought material from a > > known-faker, but you're now happy that what you > bought > > was genuine. > > > > Surely either the known-faker statement is inaccurate, > or > > the now-known-genuine claim is at best dubious? > > > > ? > > > > -- Mark's Meteorite Pages: http://meteorites.cc > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mlblood at cox.net Thu Feb 12 21:20:33 2009 From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael Blood) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 18:20:33 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] Bogus indochinites? Are they or aren't they? In-Reply-To: <975575.61696.qm@web58403.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Michael and all, In spite of my request for everyone to contact me and provide Me with the following: 1 Name 2 eMail Address 3 Snail Mail Address 4 Home Phone 5 Cell Phone 6 Web page only a couple of people have done so. Therefore, only 4 people from The auction have been mailed checks. Everyone else has a check in an Envelope with ONLY their name on it, as my computer crashed (as explained Several times). Therefore, what tiny interest is earned in a checking account will go to me. When those involved contact me I will mail your payment. Also, Those on my sales list will get sales ads periodically, others may have me Purchase meteorite from them, etc. Otherwise, it is as though you do not Exist, though my heart may lament, my computer will deny your very existence. Best wishes to all, Michael On 2/12/09 5:23 PM, "Michael Gilmer" wrote: > Hi Mark, > > Here is a link to some photos of the indochinites. > > http://s268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/Meteorites/tektites/ > > Best regards, > > MikeG > > ......................................................... > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com > .......................................................... > > > > --- On Thu, 2/12/09, Mark Crawford wrote: > >> From: Mark Crawford >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Bogus indochinites? Are they or aren't they? >> To: michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com >> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> Date: Thursday, February 12, 2009, 6:36 PM >> Michael Gilmer wrote: >>> I posted about some indochinites that I bought from a >> vendor in Hong Kong. After doing some research on >>> the seller, I discovered that he had been red-flagged >> in the past for selling fake moldavite. Well, they arrived. >> And they are real. >> I don't want to sound over-cynical here, but you sound >> like you're saying you bought material from a >> known-faker, but you're now happy that what you bought >> was genuine. >> >> Surely either the known-faker statement is inaccurate, or >> the now-known-genuine claim is at best dubious? >> >> ? >> >> -- Mark's Meteorite Pages: http://meteorites.cc > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From drtanuki at yahoo.com Thu Feb 12 22:34:19 2009 From: drtanuki at yahoo.com (drtanuki) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 19:34:19 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Tektites for sale Message-ID: <412003.79783.qm@web53203.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Dear List, I am offering 1kg lots of tektites from a known location for $30/kg; 10Kg for $250 plus shipping. If someone needs more I have some 200~500kgs in total for sale. Thank you. Best Regards, Dirk Ross...Tokyo From rsvp321 at hotmail.com Thu Feb 12 23:49:30 2009 From: rsvp321 at hotmail.com (Pete Pete) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 23:49:30 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] freebies all gone In-Reply-To: <976920.68543.qm@web57807.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <976920.68543.qm@web57807.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Unless you "missed counted" again... ---------------------------------------- > Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 10:05:25 -0800 > From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: [meteorite-list] freebies all gone > > > Hi list.Dozens of emails for freebies.Whew!!!Oh well,all of them are gone and all are going out today. > > Steve R.Arnold,Chicago! > http://chicagometeorites.net/ > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _________________________________________________________________ How fun is this? IMing with Windows Live Messenger just got better. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/products/messenger.aspx From stm at bellsouth.net Fri Feb 13 00:03:43 2009 From: stm at bellsouth.net (Sean T. Murray) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 00:03:43 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Bogus indochinites? Are they or aren't they? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Michael - I'll send you my address - if they really don't want their money, you can send it here :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Blood" To: "Michael Gilmer" ; "Meteorite List" Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 9:20 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Bogus indochinites? Are they or aren't they? > Hi Michael and all, > In spite of my request for everyone to contact me and provide > Me with the following: > 1 Name > 2 eMail Address > 3 Snail Mail Address > 4 Home Phone > 5 Cell Phone > 6 Web page > only a couple of people have done so. Therefore, only 4 people from > The auction have been mailed checks. Everyone else has a check in an > Envelope with ONLY their name on it, as my computer crashed (as explained > Several times). > Therefore, what tiny interest is earned in a checking account will > go to me. When those involved contact me I will mail your payment. Also, > Those on my sales list will get sales ads periodically, others may have me > Purchase meteorite from them, etc. Otherwise, it is as though you do not > Exist, though my heart may lament, my computer will deny your very > existence. > Best wishes to all, Michael > > > > On 2/12/09 5:23 PM, "Michael Gilmer" wrote: > >> Hi Mark, >> >> Here is a link to some photos of the indochinites. >> >> http://s268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/Meteorites/tektites/ >> >> Best regards, >> >> MikeG >> >> ......................................................... >> Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) >> Member of the Meteoritical Society. >> Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. >> Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com >> .......................................................... >> >> >> >> --- On Thu, 2/12/09, Mark Crawford wrote: >> >>> From: Mark Crawford >>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Bogus indochinites? Are they or aren't >>> they? >>> To: michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com >>> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> Date: Thursday, February 12, 2009, 6:36 PM >>> Michael Gilmer wrote: >>>> I posted about some indochinites that I bought from a >>> vendor in Hong Kong. After doing some research on >>>> the seller, I discovered that he had been red-flagged >>> in the past for selling fake moldavite. Well, they arrived. >>> And they are real. >>> I don't want to sound over-cynical here, but you sound >>> like you're saying you bought material from a >>> known-faker, but you're now happy that what you bought >>> was genuine. >>> >>> Surely either the known-faker statement is inaccurate, or >>> the now-known-genuine claim is at best dubious? >>> >>> ? >>> >>> -- Mark's Meteorite Pages: http://meteorites.cc >> >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From entropydave at ntlworld.com Fri Feb 13 02:52:30 2009 From: entropydave at ntlworld.com (Dave Harris) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 07:52:30 -0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - ebay offerings Message-ID: <09939CD5270347A38B22CD8C3264C8A6@pitstoppc> Ending soon..! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270342870834 a nice Millbillillie individual! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=270341747670 Some LA001 Martian http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=270341758411 Some Nakhla! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=270342883863 And NEA 001 Lunar Thanks dave IMCA #0092 Sec.BIMS. www.bimsociety.org From mark.ford at ssl.gb.com Fri Feb 13 06:09:47 2009 From: mark.ford at ssl.gb.com (Mark Ford) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 11:09:47 -0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] Bogus indochinites? Are they or aren't they? In-Reply-To: <744624.37940.qm@web58406.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <4994C0A0.50502@meteorites.cc> <744624.37940.qm@web58406.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <29A9DB45B84970458190D7D39BD42C494FB433@gamma.ssl.atw> I don't think assuming 'no one would bother faking something' is the same as meaning they never will, or that something else is consiquentaly genuine because of the low likely hood. This is like applying the same logic that some doctors use, when they say 'you don't have X wrong with you because its 'very unlikely' The market for indochinites world wide is colossal there are thousands and thousands of gem shops world wide to sell to, believe me they [do] fake tektites, and I doubt most everyday people would even know the difference, if they can make a ton of tektites for a few dollars then it is worth it. Recycled glass is very cheap... Anyway not wishing to cause panic here, I'm fairly confident 99%+ of tektites are perfectly ok, just be careful buying from people you don't know about is all. Best Mark -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Michael Gilmer Sent: 13 February 2009 00:43 To: Mark Crawford Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Bogus indochinites? Are they or aren't they? Hi Mark, After discussion with several list members, I agreed that the motivation to offer fake moldavite is much different than fake indochinites. Given that either could be faked with about the same effort, why would anyone manufacture a fake indochinite that sells cheaply to start with? If I was buying perfect australite buttons, I'd be alot more weary. When I received these, I examined them closely using every method at my limited disposal - using criteria I learned on a few websites pointed out to me by list members. I'm confident it's the real thing because I have a real one I bought from a trusted source and it's identical in character. If you want, I can mail you one of the ones I got from the Hong Kong moldavite faker. I'd be interested to hear another opinion on it besides my own. Contact me offlist if you want a piece of it. FWIW, I won't be purchasing any more tektites from this particular vendor - because of the moldavite issue, which I was unaware of at the time of the original purchase. Best regards, MikeG ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... --- On Thu, 2/12/09, Mark Crawford wrote: > From: Mark Crawford > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Bogus indochinites? Are they or aren't they? > To: michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Thursday, February 12, 2009, 6:36 PM > Michael Gilmer wrote: > > I posted about some indochinites that I bought from a > vendor in Hong Kong. After doing some research on > > the seller, I discovered that he had been red-flagged > in the past for selling fake moldavite. Well, they arrived. > And they are real. > I don't want to sound over-cynical here, but you sound > like you're saying you bought material from a > known-faker, but you're now happy that what you bought > was genuine. > > Surely either the known-faker statement is inaccurate, or > the now-known-genuine claim is at best dubious? > > ? > > -- Mark's Meteorite Pages: http://meteorites.cc ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us. Email info at ssl.gb.com. You should not copy or use this email or attachment(s) for any purpose nor disclose their contents to any other person. GENERAL STATEMENT: Southern Scientific Ltd's computer systems may be monitored and communications carried on them recorded, to secure the effective operation of the system and for other lawful purposes. Registered address Rectory Farm Rd, Sompting, Lancing, W Sussex BN15 0DP. Company No 1800317 From michael at spacerocksinc.com Fri Feb 13 06:26:21 2009 From: michael at spacerocksinc.com (Michael Johnson) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 03:26:21 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - February 13, 2009 Message-ID: <21747873.591051234524381233.JavaMail.root@mbs5.homesteadmail.com> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/February_13_2009.html From drtanuki at yahoo.com Fri Feb 13 07:14:34 2009 From: drtanuki at yahoo.com (drtanuki) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 04:14:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Bogus indochinites? Are they or aren't they? In-Reply-To: <29A9DB45B84970458190D7D39BD42C494FB433@gamma.ssl.atw> Message-ID: <191654.36308.qm@web53201.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Dear Mark and List, You are correct that it is unlikely that tektites are faked, 99.99% BUT NOT 100%. Rare types such as buttons etc., rare types or rare localities perhaps would be the most likely target because of profit vs effort. I have seen ONE intentionally faked tektite in the Philippines in the Late Dr. Beyer`s collection from the 1930~40s (labeled as 'fake'- it was two real tektites that had been affixed together with asphalt to form a very unusual shape). Moldavite faked- see ebay and check especially China, Hong Kong sellers. "Faked" (mis-represented or mis-identified) Libyan glass...we saw it before from China. It is NOT uncommon to see slag substituted as Indochinite. In my opinion "Indochinite" is not a good name as it allows for such a large area and they may not all be from the same source impact crater or same impact event. We have yet to find a source crater or craters! I am also of the opinion that there were multiple impacts at the time of their formation and the term "Indochinite" is a term left for orphaned tektites that the find location is no longer known or the person obtaining them bought them from persons unwilling to give the find location for financial reasons OR the seller just did not know and assumed that the location was what the local seller said. For example, in Thailand, Vietnam, Hong Kong and especially China there are many tektites that are sold as being from China or Thailand when in fact they were imported from Thailand, Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam and even the Philippines). In Bangkok, and elsewhere, many of the sellers (merchants) have never been to the field and rely on their contacts (suppliers) to obtain them. True information (fact) in Asia, and in most of the real world, comes at a cost and it does not pay the merchant to advertise for his competitors or customers the location of his source. I personally will not willingly give the exact location for the tektites that I have collected to amateurs or "dealers" so that they can further enhance their profits and further deplete scientifically valuable find information. I will give accurate information as to country and Provence (IF I am 100% certain only) and that I have seen for myself and collected myself from the location (without the help of "guides" that steer you to their "find site" for a profit. I do give accurate find location to scientists and other researchers that have a reason to know the accurate GPS locations for the tektites that I have found myself or persons that I know have found while with me in the field. I have seen faked find sites in Asia for tektites and am sure as long as there is a profit some humans will seek to profit from misinformation. Bogus tektites are usuallsubstituteded slag, black rocks or augite that have been intentionally added or were found in the field by the locals. In some cases some local sellers "specialize" in slag tektites and their customers have no idea what a tektite should look like. In China, I was shown slag by several dealers- it is not that they were perhaps intenionally trying to cheat me- perhaps they had never seen a tektite and they were sold the material as a tektite. Other cases the dealer knows exactly that he is selling slag and it is up to the buyer to buy or not. Buyer beware! Enough of my ramblings; time for sleep after more than a day of being awake. IF someone wishes to discuss this topic further contact me off list. I am sure Norman can also comment on his experiences IF he is computer-available in Africa. Best regards, Dirk Ross...Tokyo BTW: Thank you to all the the some 35 persons that contacted me about buying tektites in the past 13+ hours; special thanks to the 25+ list members that bought! There are still several kilos left if anyone is interested. --- On Fri, 2/13/09, Mark Ford wrote: > From: Mark Ford > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Bogus indochinites? Are they or aren't they? > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Friday, February 13, 2009, 8:09 PM > I don't think assuming 'no one would bother faking > something' is the > same as meaning they never will, or that something else is > consiquentaly > genuine because of the low likely hood. > > This is like applying the same logic that some doctors use, > when they > say 'you don't have X wrong with you because its > 'very unlikely' > > The market for indochinites world wide is colossal there > are thousands > and thousands of gem shops world wide to sell to, believe > me they [do] > fake tektites, and I doubt most everyday people would even > know the > difference, if they can make a ton of tektites for a few > dollars then it > is worth it. Recycled glass is very cheap... > > Anyway not wishing to cause panic here, I'm fairly > confident 99%+ of > tektites are perfectly ok, just be careful buying from > people you don't > know about is all. > > From jgrossman at usgs.gov Fri Feb 13 08:56:21 2009 From: jgrossman at usgs.gov (Jeff Grossman) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 08:56:21 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Two new fall announcements Message-ID: People may be interested in two announcements of recent falls in the Meteoritical Bulletin and associated LPSC abstracts: Buzzard Coulee (which everybody knows about): http://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/index.php?code=48654 http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2009/pdf/1893.pdf http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2009/pdf/2072.pdf Bunburra Rockhole (I hadn't heard about this one before): http://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/index.php?code=48653 http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2009/pdf/1664.pdf http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2009/pdf/1498.pdf Jeff Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703) 648-6184 US Geological Survey fax: (703) 648-6383 954 National Center Reston, VA 20192, USA From nlehrman at nvbell.net Fri Feb 13 08:56:42 2009 From: nlehrman at nvbell.net (Norm Lehrman) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 05:56:42 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Bogus indochinites? Are they or aren't they? In-Reply-To: <191654.36308.qm@web53201.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <374086.43908.qm@web81006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Greetings Dirk, Mark, & all, I have previously forwarded off-list comments to some on this matter, but just to round out the story for everyone, here are a few bits from our experience. We have purchased some very large lots of tektites from several sources. For many years we have had a consistent buyer of over 10,000 specimens per year. As these are used for educational purposes, we have handled and examined each and every one. Lots of odds and ends are included in every shipment, but I don't consider this intentionally fraudulent on the part of any of my suppliers. Bulk tektites are a bulk commodity and have a very low unit value to the finder. I am frankly amazed that the overall percentage of rejects is so low. The most common cull materials found in bulk shipments are: clinkers & slag, coal, tourmaline, garnets, melted glass, fragments of plastic, and assorted common rocks. I don't think this is the result of deceit. It's just bulk materials being handled as quickly as possible. What does distress me is that I have seen this same cull material offered as individual specimens by dealers in Tucson who apparently think that just because it was found in a bag of tektites, it is therefor a tektite, ---in fact, an odd tektite deserving of its own box and individual piece sale. It should not need to be said, but I will say it anyway: if you buy bulk tektites, don't suspend critical judgement. Some of the black bits in there aren't tektites even if they are in a bag marked "tektites". As for the fake moldavites, these also are quite often honest mistakes. Don't assume that every seller of the same is a crook. When I have contacted sellers on such matters, I would say that 80% of the time, they truly had no idea their material wasn't authentic and withdrew their auctions quickly and honorably. The ones you really need to watch out for are the "new" localities. These are the ones that show up periodically from Utah, or Arizona, or somewhere in Africa or a host of other places. Once someone has decided that what they have is a new type of tektite, there is seldom an objective bone left in their body. They can always find some teacher or professor or geologist who endorses their find. This is big-time buyer beware. I always give the new discoveries a fair hearing. We'd all love to find something new. But be careful. Honest people will be open about doubts and uncertainties. If they start to talk about conspiracies to supress their find, and quote all sorts of authorities who could not be in a position to be real authorities, throw out the red flag! As for the "Indochinites", Dirk has told you like it is. It is virtually impossible to be sure of a source locality without self-collecting or getting it from someone you can trust impeccably who has self-collected(like Dirk). Even my most trusted suppliers, who may well be completely trustworthy, get their materials from other suppliers of completely unknown integrity. The front-line collectors have a vested interest in keeping their localities secret. Best regards to all, Norm Lehrman (tektitesource.com) --- On Fri, 2/13/09, drtanuki wrote: > From: drtanuki > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Bogus indochinites? Are they or aren't they? > To: "Mark Ford" , meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Friday, February 13, 2009, 4:14 AM > Dear Mark and List, > You are correct that it is unlikely that tektites are > faked, 99.99% BUT NOT 100%. Rare types such as buttons > etc., rare types or rare localities perhaps would be the > most likely target because of profit vs effort. > > I have seen ONE intentionally faked tektite in the > Philippines in the Late Dr. Beyer`s collection from the > 1930~40s (labeled as 'fake'- it was two real > tektites that had been affixed together with asphalt to form > a very unusual shape). > > Moldavite faked- see ebay and check especially China, > Hong Kong sellers. > "Faked" (mis-represented or mis-identified) > Libyan glass...we saw it before from China. > > It is NOT uncommon to see slag substituted as > Indochinite. > > In my opinion "Indochinite" is not a good name > as it allows for such a large area and they may not all be > from the same source impact crater or same impact event. We > have yet to find a source crater or craters! > > I am also of the opinion that there were multiple impacts > at the time of their formation and the term > "Indochinite" is a term left for orphaned tektites > that the find location is no longer known or the person > obtaining them bought them from persons unwilling to give > the find location for financial reasons OR the seller just > did not know and assumed that the location was what the > local seller said. > > For example, in Thailand, Vietnam, Hong Kong and > especially China there are many tektites that are sold as > being from China or Thailand when in fact they were imported > from Thailand, Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam and even the > Philippines). > > In Bangkok, and elsewhere, many of the sellers > (merchants) have never been to the field and rely on their > contacts (suppliers) to obtain them. True information > (fact) in Asia, and in most of the real world, comes at a > cost and it does not pay the merchant to advertise for his > competitors or customers the location of his source. > > I personally will not willingly give the exact location > for the tektites that I have collected to amateurs or > "dealers" so that they can further enhance their > profits and further deplete scientifically valuable find > information. > > I will give accurate information as to country and > Provence (IF I am 100% certain only) and that I have seen > for myself and collected myself from the location (without > the help of "guides" that steer you to their > "find site" for a profit. > I do give accurate find location to scientists and other > researchers that have a reason to know the accurate GPS > locations for the tektites that I have found myself or > persons that I know have found while with me in the field. > > I have seen faked find sites in Asia for tektites and am > sure as long as there is a profit some humans will seek to > profit from misinformation. > > Bogus tektites are usuallsubstituteded slag, black rocks > or augite that have been intentionally added or were found > in the field by the locals. In some cases some local > sellers "specialize" in slag tektites and their > customers have no idea what a tektite should look like. In > China, I was shown slag by several dealers- it is not that > they were perhaps intenionally trying to cheat me- perhaps > they had never seen a tektite and they were sold the > material as a tektite. Other cases the dealer knows exactly > that he is selling slag and it is up to the buyer to buy or > not. Buyer beware! > > Enough of my ramblings; time for sleep after more than a > day of being awake. IF someone wishes to discuss this topic > further contact me off list. I am sure Norman can also > comment on his experiences IF he is computer-available in > Africa. > > Best regards, Dirk Ross...Tokyo > > BTW: Thank you to all the the some 35 persons that > contacted me about buying tektites in the past 13+ hours; > special thanks to the 25+ list members that bought! There > are still several kilos left if anyone is interested. > > > > > --- On Fri, 2/13/09, Mark Ford > wrote: > > > From: Mark Ford > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Bogus indochinites? Are > they or aren't they? > > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > Date: Friday, February 13, 2009, 8:09 PM > > I don't think assuming 'no one would bother > faking > > something' is the > > same as meaning they never will, or that something > else is > > consiquentaly > > genuine because of the low likely hood. > > > > This is like applying the same logic that some doctors > use, > > when they > > say 'you don't have X wrong with you because > its > > 'very unlikely' > > > > The market for indochinites world wide is colossal > there > > are thousands > > and thousands of gem shops world wide to sell to, > believe > > me they [do] > > fake tektites, and I doubt most everyday people would > even > > know the > > difference, if they can make a ton of tektites for a > few > > dollars then it > > is worth it. Recycled glass is very cheap... > > > > Anyway not wishing to cause panic here, I'm fairly > > confident 99%+ of > > tektites are perfectly ok, just be careful buying from > > people you don't > > know about is all. > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com Fri Feb 13 12:00:03 2009 From: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com (STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 12:00:03 EST Subject: [meteorite-list] Very Funny Stone ID Help Request Message-ID: Hi list, I thought you all might get a laugh out of this request to help with a mysterious stone. This one was obviously way above my pay grade! So I thought I would appeal to you all for any Wizards or practicing Shaman. I though about breaking into a plagiarism of Harry Potter's Sorcerer's Stone story but what do I know? I, on occasion, post micrographs to the Coast to Coast radio show web site and for the most part, the responses I get are well informed, intelligent and interesting. While others are just interesting. Some who suspect they have found a meteorite, have found a meteorite! An appeal to this kind of forum would likely produce some finds but it would be overwhelming to deal with. I'm not up to it! Tom Here it is: Dear sir I know the stone which have any properties : The first :Large Size : 22 kg The second : 2,7 kg ( like as the finger ) When i put it in the Iron tank (have water, only Iron ,not aluminium or copper) ).This stone wouldn't sink,it hang near botton. When i put it near the mirror,the mirror will be cracked. When i put it near the match so that the match will be deactive. When i put it near the Neon light,the neon will be off.For the long time,the insulated wire will be burn When i put the Ring near it,the yellow colour will be change white colour. When i hold it,I'm dead tired some days. Can you tell me What are they ? Thank a lot . **************Nothing says I love you like flowers! Find a florist near you now. (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=florist&ncid=emlcntusyelp00000002) From michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com Fri Feb 13 12:03:52 2009 From: michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com (Michael Gilmer) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 09:03:52 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Illegal Buzzard Coulee on eBay? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <410439.15006.qm@web58402.mail.re3.yahoo.com> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170302418033 Is it bogus? Is it Buzzard Coulee? I'm relatively certain Canada has not issued any export permits for this fall and the seller's feedback rating doesn't inspire confidence. Anyone want to wager how long it will be before eBay pulls this auction? Regards, MikeG ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com Fri Feb 13 12:19:07 2009 From: michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com (Michael Gilmer) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 09:19:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Illegal Buzzard Coulee on eBay? In-Reply-To: <20090213T120710Z_2DE900050000@rom.on.ca> Message-ID: <71554.57675.qm@web58403.mail.re3.yahoo.com> No problem Ian. I am happy to help out. This auction raised all sorts of red flags the minute I saw it. Illegal meteorite with no export permit. Brand new seller with zero feedback. Outrageous opening bid. I cannot imagine how this seller thinks this auction is going to be allowed to run it's course? I guess it would be a legal auction if he only accepted bids from Canadian bidders, but there is no mention of that fact in the auction listing. An obvious fraud or illegal attempt to sell. Best regards, MikeG ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... --- On Fri, 2/13/09, Ian Nicklin wrote: > From: Ian Nicklin > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Illegal Buzzard Coulee on eBay? > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com > Date: Friday, February 13, 2009, 11:07 AM > if it is Buzzard Coulee then yes it's illegal. No > legitimate export permits have been issued to anyone yet. > Ebay will be contacted about this. > > thanks for alerting everyone about this. > > >>> Michael Gilmer > 13/02/2009 12:03:52 pm > >>> > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170302418033 > > Is it bogus? Is it Buzzard Coulee? > > I'm relatively certain Canada has not issued any export > permits > for this fall and the seller's feedback rating > doesn't inspire > confidence. > > Anyone want to wager how long it will be before eBay pulls > this > auction? > > Regards, > > MikeG > > ......................................................... > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and > http://www.glassthrower.com > .......................................................... > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From cynapse at charter.net Fri Feb 13 12:20:20 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 12:20:20 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Illegal Buzzard Coulee on eBay? In-Reply-To: <410439.15006.qm@web58402.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <410439.15006.qm@web58402.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0eabp4dsgm4gnp32rplln81ktuoreql793@4ax.com> On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 09:03:52 -0800 (PST), you wrote: > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170302418033 > >Is it bogus? Is it Buzzard Coulee? > As best as I can tweak the horrible photo, it does look like a meteorite-- there are bright spots that look like blebs of metal, plus a couple of larger yellow spots that could be large melted chondrules exposed through the fusion crust. I'm also seeing in the upper-right something that COULD be flow lines, but then again coud be nothing at all. Might be a bit weathered, but again, it is a terrible photo. But it is a zero-feedback seller and they say it is "estimated to be 4 trillion years old", so I wouldn't trust trying to buy from them even if they dropped 2 zeroes off that figure. >Anyone want to wager how long it will be before eBay pulls this >auction? Slightly after Sheol has a snowstorm. Ebay doesn't give one of these: http://www.space1026.com/site_images/620portfolios_rats_ass.jpg From icedance at swbell.net Fri Feb 13 12:26:32 2009 From: icedance at swbell.net (Don Edwards) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 09:26:32 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Very Funny Stone ID Help Request In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <918854.9143.qm@web81607.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Pluto-nium > Can you tell me What are they ? > Thank a lot . From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Fri Feb 13 12:32:56 2009 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 18:32:56 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Illegal Buzzard Coulee on eBay? In-Reply-To: <410439.15006.qm@web58402.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <410439.15006.qm@web58402.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <00ab01c98e01$1bd25350$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> A meteorite per se can't be illegal. That would be absurd. A few men made meteorites illegal. That is an example, for the meaning, of that strange word, you learnt at school, called "hybris". -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Michael Gilmer Gesendet: Freitag, 13. Februar 2009 18:04 An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: [meteorite-list] Illegal Buzzard Coulee on eBay? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170302418033 Is it bogus? Is it Buzzard Coulee? I'm relatively certain Canada has not issued any export permits for this fall and the seller's feedback rating doesn't inspire confidence. Anyone want to wager how long it will be before eBay pulls this auction? Regards, MikeG ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From waltbranch at bellsouth.net Fri Feb 13 12:43:22 2009 From: waltbranch at bellsouth.net (Walter Branch) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 12:43:22 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Illegal Buzzard Coulee on eBay? References: <410439.15006.qm@web58402.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <77677105C27E4C979E31FA098D2C4E85@Walter> Umm. That's interesting. It's apparently older than the known universe. Must be one of those dark matter, dark energy, dark whisky things. -Walter Branch ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Gilmer" To: Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 12:03 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Illegal Buzzard Coulee on eBay? > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170302418033 > > Is it bogus? Is it Buzzard Coulee? > > I'm relatively certain Canada has not issued any export permits > for this fall and the seller's feedback rating doesn't inspire > confidence. > > Anyone want to wager how long it will be before eBay pulls this > auction? > > Regards, > > MikeG > > ......................................................... > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com > .......................................................... > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From stm at bellsouth.net Fri Feb 13 13:40:20 2009 From: stm at bellsouth.net (Sean T. Murray) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 13:40:20 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Bogus indochinites? Are they or aren't they? In-Reply-To: <191654.36308.qm@web53201.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <191654.36308.qm@web53201.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks Dirk - - It's fantastic to get tektite material that is documented and clearly from the correct region. Given the shiping costs, material, and provenance it is a great deal! Much cheaper than getting it from the eBay sources I have found to date... Sean ----- Original Message ----- From: "drtanuki" To: "Mark Ford" ; Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 7:14 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Bogus indochinites? Are they or aren't they? > Dear Mark and List, > You are correct that it is unlikely that tektites are faked, 99.99% BUT > NOT 100%. Rare types such as buttons etc., rare types or rare localities > perhaps would be the most likely target because of profit vs effort. > > I have seen ONE intentionally faked tektite in the Philippines in the > Late Dr. Beyer`s collection from the 1930~40s (labeled as 'fake'- it was > two real tektites that had been affixed together with asphalt to form a > very unusual shape). > > Moldavite faked- see ebay and check especially China, Hong Kong sellers. > "Faked" (mis-represented or mis-identified) Libyan glass...we saw it > before from China. > > It is NOT uncommon to see slag substituted as Indochinite. > > In my opinion "Indochinite" is not a good name as it allows for such a > large area and they may not all be from the same source impact crater or > same impact event. We have yet to find a source crater or craters! > > I am also of the opinion that there were multiple impacts at the time of > their formation and the term "Indochinite" is a term left for orphaned > tektites that the find location is no longer known or the person obtaining > them bought them from persons unwilling to give the find location for > financial reasons OR the seller just did not know and assumed that the > location was what the local seller said. > > For example, in Thailand, Vietnam, Hong Kong and especially China there > are many tektites that are sold as being from China or Thailand when in > fact they were imported from Thailand, Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam and even > the Philippines). > > In Bangkok, and elsewhere, many of the sellers (merchants) have never > been to the field and rely on their contacts (suppliers) to obtain them. > True information (fact) in Asia, and in most of the real world, comes at a > cost and it does not pay the merchant to advertise for his competitors or > customers the location of his source. > > I personally will not willingly give the exact location for the tektites > that I have collected to amateurs or "dealers" so that they can further > enhance their profits and further deplete scientifically valuable find > information. > > I will give accurate information as to country and Provence (IF I am 100% > certain only) and that I have seen for myself and collected myself from > the location (without the help of "guides" that steer you to their "find > site" for a profit. > I do give accurate find location to scientists and other researchers that > have a reason to know the accurate GPS locations for the tektites that I > have found myself or persons that I know have found while with me in the > field. > > I have seen faked find sites in Asia for tektites and am sure as long as > there is a profit some humans will seek to profit from misinformation. > > Bogus tektites are usuallsubstituteded slag, black rocks or augite that > have been intentionally added or were found in the field by the locals. > In some cases some local sellers "specialize" in slag tektites and their > customers have no idea what a tektite should look like. In China, I was > shown slag by several dealers- it is not that they were perhaps > intenionally trying to cheat me- perhaps they had never seen a tektite and > they were sold the material as a tektite. Other cases the dealer knows > exactly that he is selling slag and it is up to the buyer to buy or not. > Buyer beware! > > Enough of my ramblings; time for sleep after more than a day of being > awake. IF someone wishes to discuss this topic further contact me off > list. I am sure Norman can also comment on his experiences IF he is > computer-available in Africa. > > Best regards, Dirk Ross...Tokyo > > BTW: Thank you to all the the some 35 persons that contacted me about > buying tektites in the past 13+ hours; special thanks to the 25+ list > members that bought! There are still several kilos left if anyone is > interested. > > > > > --- On Fri, 2/13/09, Mark Ford wrote: > >> From: Mark Ford >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Bogus indochinites? Are they or aren't >> they? >> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> Date: Friday, February 13, 2009, 8:09 PM >> I don't think assuming 'no one would bother faking >> something' is the >> same as meaning they never will, or that something else is >> consiquentaly >> genuine because of the low likely hood. >> >> This is like applying the same logic that some doctors use, >> when they >> say 'you don't have X wrong with you because its >> 'very unlikely' >> >> The market for indochinites world wide is colossal there >> are thousands >> and thousands of gem shops world wide to sell to, believe >> me they [do] >> fake tektites, and I doubt most everyday people would even >> know the >> difference, if they can make a ton of tektites for a few >> dollars then it >> is worth it. Recycled glass is very cheap... >> >> Anyway not wishing to cause panic here, I'm fairly >> confident 99%+ of >> tektites are perfectly ok, just be careful buying from >> people you don't >> know about is all. >> >> > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mikewren at gilanet.com Fri Feb 13 15:22:29 2009 From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 13:22:29 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: LAST CALL TO SIGN UP FOR LIST! AUCTION HIGHLIGHTS ADDED! REDUCED COLLECTION PIECES-ONE TIME ONLY-NEW ITEMS> NEWS & THANKS! Message-ID: <3DE7265D-5073-46FE-9886-0818C2FEDCF2@gilanet.com> Hello, I am trying to reduce emails- so all that I have to say this week is in this one. 1. Great Auctions This Week! Many New Items Added and A Few "One Only" items. Don't wait! 2. If you are interested in an up coming "Grand Finale" Sale, please sign up for my ebay store newsletter. Just go to Home page and sign up. I am going to have a huge sale in the near future, after I list about another 300 meteorites. Many of them will be NEW and never before available. When this sale goes it will ONLY be to my private newsletter list. IT WILL ALSO BE THE ONLY OTHER 50% OFF SALE THIS YEAR! http://stores.ebay.com/voyage-botanica-natural-history 3. I also have about 200k worth of "Museum Grade Specimens" up for auction-with in some cases a 50% reduction. I am not planning on doing this again. These are glorious specimens and they are for sale at reduced prices for my special project which some of you already know about. 4. THANKS THANKS THANKS THANKS> Many of you have supported my project by making purchases or sending donations. Cyrus and Kim -Thank You Too.! THANKS!!!!!!!!! Highlights Added: ALL Started At 0.99 Cents! Seldom Available MILLS, NM., H6, 24.7 gram, Only specimen I have! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200308567476 (NEW) NWA 5530, H5, Large Slice, 398 gram, Only A Few Specimens Available from this meteorite. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200309241575 Rare Fall From North Carolina-CASTALIA, 0.03g ! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200309262534 Superb CAMEL DONGA, Eucrite, 4.54 gram, A really nice specimen. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200308569460 Famous WESTON, CT., Fall of 1807, H4, 0.37g - MY LAST SPECIMEN! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200309238393 Superb WAGON MOUND, New Mexico, 14.66 gram, Super Brecciation! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200309237623 ESQUEL, Pallasite, Argentina, 3.22 gram http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200309261910 A Perfect MILLBILLILLIE Individual, 8.77g_Check Out This Individual! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200309236734 A Unique Little Main Mass-NWA 5531, L6, 86 g _ A BEAUTIFUL MAIN MASS!! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200308569982 (NEW), LA LUZ, New Mexico, H4, LTKW, 2.00g http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200309237150 (New) CV3, NWA 5546 From Africa, 20.40 gram- A GREAT OPPORTUNITY! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200308569141 (New) Olivine Diogenite-NWA 5480, 9.79 gram- A MUST SEE! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200308568418 (New), NWA 5537, LL3.5, LTKW 3.35g- Only A few Of This Beauty! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200308568017 Awesome"Hammer Stone" WORDEN, Michigan, .268g _ I believe My LAST ONE! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200308567096 CANYON DIABLO Individuals, 500g Lot #5 (10) - CHECK THIS OUT! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200308567005 Beautiful Flight Oriented Gao-Guenie, H5, 12g- A Beauty! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200308562031 (New) NWA 4734, Lunar Specimen Display! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200308562019 BRENHAM, Siderite From Kansas, 14.60 gram - Getting Down To My Last Ones! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200308562022 One of A Kind, NWA 3157, Ungrouped, 0.734g RARE! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200308562024 Rare CK5 From Africa, NWA 1907, 0.16 gram http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200308562029 (New) Martian Shergottite, NWA 4925, "Mars" http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200308562035 RARE-A SLICE Of CARANCAS, Peru, H4-5, 1.73g- Where Else Can You Find Slices Of This Meteorite? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200308566996 Seldom Available GRUVER, Texas, H4, 3.40g http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200308567015 RARE, SILVERTON, Texas, H4, LTKW, 0.50 gram http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200308567021 An Early # NWA 103, L6 From Africa, 27.22g http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200308567024 Seldom Available TULIA (b), Texas, L6, 0.65 g http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200308567032 (NEW) NWA 4851, L6 With Shock Lines, 68 Gram http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200308567043 Seldom Available TWODOT, Montana, H6, 3.05g http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200308567091 CANYON DIABLO Individual, 122 gram- A Really Nice Individual! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200308567088 Nice H3 From Namibia, KORRA KORRABES, 32.06 g http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200308567051 Rare Ureilite From Africa, NWA 2634, 2.11g http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200308567079 Rare NWA 2932, Mesosiderite, Nice! 8.83 gram http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200308567074 Pallasite From Australia-HUCKITTA, 56.95 gram- A NICE BIG SPECIMEN! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200308567064 Seldom Available BRISCOE, Texas, L5, 4.97g http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200308567054 Others of interest at reduced prices-- (New) NWA 5059, L4, 3800 gram Lot-W/Main Mass This works out to about . 25 cents per gram, not bad for a NEW classified and UNSOLD Meteorite! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200309278377 Rare & Famous LOS ANGELES, Martian, 8.30g EC- One of the BEST Specimens of this rarity-ANYWHERE! NO LOWER WILL I GO! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200309278384 Rare NWA 2696, Howardite, Complete Slice 106g, Large Slice-Priced to Sell! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200308542095 Super Rare Complete Slice/TCU-HARRIMANN, 514g >>>> RARE! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200308541983 (NEW) NWA 5530, H5, Main Mass, 7,000 gram- A good deal for someone who likes BIG Main Masses! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200308525413 AND Many, Many Others...Some Great Bargins to be had-You just have to look for them! Best Wishes and Thanks Michael Cottingham From mlblood at cox.net Fri Feb 13 16:37:44 2009 From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael Blood) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 13:37:44 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] Tucson Auction In-Reply-To: <49952487.9030801@acc.umu.se> Message-ID: Dear Goran and all loyal absentee bidders. I just recently returned from Tucson. For those of you that did not get the news I Posted to the list, the following catastrophes had to Be overcome: 1) I had a TOTAL computer crash just days before leaving For the auction. This resulted in initially loosing EVERYTHING - I was eventually, with enough money, Able to recover SOME email records from 2001 and earlier As well as replace the web browser to allow me to finish the Printable copy of the auction catalog. 2) my dear mother-in-law died the day before I was leaving. She wasn't just my wife's mother, she was a wonderful Person I have known since I was 15 years old. 3) I lost the second set of absentee bids sent in at the last minute. 4) For several days before leaving and for much of my time in Tucson I was literally in a haze. For any behavior less than hospitable I apologize and hope my friends accept I was under substantial stress. Sorry for the inconvenience to all involved. I will be posting auction results in the near future. However, If you had absentee bids in, pretty much to the person they did Not get recorded this year and while I regret it, I am not going to have a heart attack over it. In fact, I do not even claim the exceptional Circumstances are necessarily the cause of my lack of fully and efficiently Functioning in regards to the auction. It is a real enterprise for one Person to put together and I nearly never get every aspect of it right. It is misfortunate as absentee bidding is part of the fun and Fun is a primary function of this auction. Under the circumstances Is it was everything I could do to get myself there (and wouldn't have Had my wife not insisted I go). For several days I felt like an obnoxious drunk, though those of You who know me know I do not drink. Eventually, however, I was able to spend several occasions of actual pleasure, as it is so nice to see old friends one only gets to see once a year. It was nice to have Jerry Armstrong there and see people gasp at Some of his many impressive paintings. I had not seen "Pultusk" in Person and was blown away by how much more impressive it is in person Than in the photo in the internet. I had also not witnessed for myeself The quality of the Giclee "copies," which look every bit like an original Painting. They were breathtaking. I am most grateful to major submitters to the auction, particularly Anne Black who placed nearly 40 specimens with a great degree of Variation. Of course, Anne also functions as a helpful friend to everyone At the show (in case any of you have failed to note this fact). We are all Indebted to her for her good will and acts of kindness. Well, now I am beginning to ramble, and I did not mean to. I will Reserve that for my upcoming article in METEORITE TIMES. Best wishes to all, Michael On 2/12/09 11:43 PM, "G?ran Axelsson" wrote: > Hi! > > Have you sent out invoices to absentee bidders yet? > According to the prices realised that I have got from others I should > have won two of the auctions. The Moss piece and the Miles iron. > > Credit card number beginning : 4863 8820 > > Regards G?ran Axelsson > > > Michael Blood wrote: >> I am mailing out payments and discovering that the great computer >> Crash of February 2009 has wiped out most of my information needed >> To do so. >> Those of you who had items in the auction please email me >> With the following info: >> 1 Name >> 2 email address >> 3 Snail mail address >> 4 Home and cell phone numbers >> Thos NOT who did not have items in the auction, please provide >> This information as well. I have lost ALL email data after 2001. That >> Means the little I do have is now in error. >> I returned immediately after the auction due to my dear mother-in- >> Law's death which prevented Angel from going or from me enjoying the >> Show nearly as much. None the less, it is always good do be around friends. >> I will write at length about the show in the March METEORITE TIMES, >> But suffice it to say it was well and reasonably thriving moreso than most >> Had expected. >> In any event, please do get send me your information - please put >> " Imail Update" in the Message Box. >> If either of us ever mailed the other I would like to hear from you. >> RSVP >> Thanks, Michael >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> > From tett at rogers.com Fri Feb 13 17:51:30 2009 From: tett at rogers.com (tett) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 17:51:30 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Two new fall announcements In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4995F972.1090304@rogers.com> Thanks Jeff! Buzzard Coulee is the official name. Sorry Roman ;>( Mike Jeff Grossman wrote: > People may be interested in two announcements of recent falls in the > Meteoritical Bulletin and associated LPSC abstracts: > > Buzzard Coulee (which everybody knows about): > http://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/index.php?code=48654 > http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2009/pdf/1893.pdf > http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2009/pdf/2072.pdf > > Bunburra Rockhole (I hadn't heard about this one before): > http://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/index.php?code=48653 > http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2009/pdf/1664.pdf > http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2009/pdf/1498.pdf > > Jeff > > Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703) 648-6184 > US Geological Survey fax: (703) 648-6383 > 954 National Center > Reston, VA 20192, USA > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From tett at rogers.com Fri Feb 13 17:55:47 2009 From: tett at rogers.com (tett) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 17:55:47 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Illegal Buzzard Coulee on eBay? In-Reply-To: <0eabp4dsgm4gnp32rplln81ktuoreql793@4ax.com> References: <410439.15006.qm@web58402.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <0eabp4dsgm4gnp32rplln81ktuoreql793@4ax.com> Message-ID: <4995FA73.9040705@rogers.com> Darren, It looks legit to me. Being that the guy is from Lloydminster, which is just around the corner from the strewn field, he could have very easily acquired it. And is is not illegal unless he tries to sell it out side of Canada without an export permit. That said, he does state that he will ship to the US and the UK and I doubt that he has an export permit in hand. Cheers! Mike Tettenborn Darren Garrison wrote: > On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 09:03:52 -0800 (PST), you wrote: > >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170302418033 >> >> Is it bogus? Is it Buzzard Coulee? >> > > As best as I can tweak the horrible photo, it does look like a meteorite-- there > are bright spots that look like blebs of metal, plus a couple of larger yellow > spots that could be large melted chondrules exposed through the fusion crust. > I'm also seeing in the upper-right something that COULD be flow lines, but then > again coud be nothing at all. Might be a bit weathered, but again, it is a > terrible photo. But it is a zero-feedback seller and they say it is "estimated > to be 4 trillion years old", so I wouldn't trust trying to buy from them even if > they dropped 2 zeroes off that figure. > >> Anyone want to wager how long it will be before eBay pulls this >> auction? > > Slightly after Sheol has a snowstorm. Ebay doesn't give one of these: > > http://www.space1026.com/site_images/620portfolios_rats_ass.jpg > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com Fri Feb 13 18:21:52 2009 From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 15:21:52 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] tishka update Message-ID: <978742.63851.qm@web57803.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi list.I was just looking at my 256 gram fragment of tishka and finally saw alot of the chondrules that I could not see in my smaller piece.I was wondering if there is any update on the class of this new fall?While I was in tucson I saw only 2 pieces larger than mine.A couple of 800 gram fragments and nothing but small fragments.Did?anyone else see any larger than the 2 800 gram pieces?I see now that they have found bigger whole pieces.With the fusion crust this meteorite looks alot better than without.Like chunks of concrete without the crust.Any thoughts? ? Steve R.Arnold,Chicago! http://chicagometeorites.net/ From ensoramanda at ntlworld.com Fri Feb 13 18:55:29 2009 From: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com (ensoramanda at ntlworld.com) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 23:55:29 +0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 most scientifically important meteorites? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20090213235529.3YE52.433248.root@web08-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com> Hi all, Just thought it might be interesting to discover list members opinions on what they would choose as the most important meteorites with regard to science? Which ones have been the most significant in increasing our understanding of the evolution of our solar system, and what they have taught us? Graham Ensor, UK. From cynapse at charter.net Fri Feb 13 19:28:23 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 19:28:23 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] speaking of Buzzard Coulee In-Reply-To: <4995FA73.9040705@rogers.com> References: <410439.15006.qm@web58402.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <0eabp4dsgm4gnp32rplln81ktuoreql793@4ax.com> <4995FA73.9040705@rogers.com> Message-ID: http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2009/02/09/meteorite.html Scientists unravelling mysteries of Saskatchewan meteorite Researchers who found chunks of a meteorite in Saskatchewan last November believe they're getting close to answering a key question: where in space did it come from? University of Calgary graduate student Ellen Milley, who was part of the team that found space rocks in an area known as Buzzard Coulee southeast of Lloydminster, was at the University of Saskatchewan in Saskatoon Monday to talk about what the team has learned. So far, it looks like the meteorite didn't come from the asteroid belt beyond the orbit of Mars, she said. The road to reaching that conclusion began when the space rocks fell Nov. 20. It was a night when hundreds of people across Western Canada witnessed a spectacular fireball across the sky caused by the estimated 10-tonne rock. Video surveillance cameras at motels and gas stations captured the flashes of brilliant light and the shadows they cast. A week later, Milley was part of the team led by U of C geologist and geophysicist Alan Hildebrand at Buzzard Coulee. It was she who spotted the first meteorite fragment in a frozen pond. Later, she studied the flashes and shadows from the various surveillance and amateur videos. She used the information to plot the fireball's path as it fell to Earth and then tried to figure out its orbit. Milley's tentative conclusion, which she discussed in Saskatoon Monday, was that it didn't look like the space rock came from beyond the orbit of Mars. "It looks like it's a very kind of tight inner solar system orbit," she said. "It's not something that's extended into the asteroid belt." If she's correct, it would be the first time researchers have found debris from a meteorite so close to Earth, Milley said. In terms of the composition, Milley and her colleagues have determined it's a relatively common type of meteorite with a high iron content. However, there is still much more to learn about it, they say. More than 100 fragments have already been recovered, but this spring, researchers will be resuming their search for more. They'll be scouring the fields around Buzzard Coulee in search of an estimated two tonnes of rock that are believed to be studding the ground. From meteoritekid at gmail.com Fri Feb 13 19:46:43 2009 From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 16:46:43 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 most scientifically important meteorites? In-Reply-To: <20090213235529.3YE52.433248.root@web08-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com> References: <20090213235529.3YE52.433248.root@web08-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com> Message-ID: <93aaac890902131646o2b1eedabu77ee3c75fe1f9909@mail.gmail.com> Hello Graham, The list would probably include primitive stones such as Ivuna, Orgueil, Murchison, Tagish Lake, and Allende, as well as ordinary chondrites like Semarkona, etc. - and don't forget Krymka. They all contain information about the earliest days of the solar system - they're some of the oldest rocks we have. Other meteorites of particular scientific interest include older achondrites such as Shallowater aubrite, angrites, etc. They teach us about the earliest changes that began to occur in primitive bodies billions of years ago. And while some name angrites to be from Mercury, there is no confirmation of this hypothesis - the evidence to date is purely circumstantial, and points to their having come from a km+ sized body in the terrestrial planted O-isotope range...nothing more. See Melinda Hutson's aricle in the May 2008 Meteorite Magazine. With regards to planetary specimens, EETA79001 (the first recognized martian meteorite), ALHA 78001 (life?), and ALHA81005 (first recognized lunar meteorite). You could probably include Shergotty, Chassigny, and Nakhla, simply because they were the type specimens of those. They've taught us much about Mars and the Moon - don't think I need to elaborate that much. If you wanted to stretch it to other meteorites, I would include ungrouped stones because, individually speaking, they are more important than more common stones. Things like ungrouped chondrites and achondrites offer us views of unique parent bodies...it's hard to get more important than that. You might throw some unique irons or stony irons in with that lot - the trouble is that irons seem to be too ill-understood, even in today's day and age. But, a list of 10...I wouldn't ask for such a short list... Regards, Jason On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 3:55 PM, wrote: > Hi all, > > Just thought it might be interesting to discover list members opinions on what they would choose as the most important meteorites with regard to science? Which ones have been the most significant in increasing our understanding of the evolution of our solar system, and what they have taught us? > > Graham Ensor, UK. > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Fri Feb 13 20:02:08 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 17:02:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars Odyssey THEMIS Images: February 9-13, 2009 Message-ID: <200902140102.RAA29287@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> MARS ODYSSEY THEMIS IMAGES February 9-13, 2009 o Tithonium Chasma (Released 09 February 2009) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090209a o Dark Slope Streaks (Released 10 February 2009) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090210a o Daedalia Planum (Released 11 February 2009) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090211a o Granicus Valles (Released 12 February 2009) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090212a o Cerberus Fossae (Released 13 February 2009) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090213a All of the THEMIS images are archived here: http://themis.asu.edu/latest.html NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory manages the 2001 Mars Odyssey mission for NASA's Office of Space Science, Washington, D.C. The Thermal Emission Imaging System (THEMIS) was developed by Arizona State University, Tempe, in co.oration with Raytheon Santa Barbara Remote Sensing. The THEMIS investigation is led by Dr. Philip Christensen at Arizona State University. Lockheed Martin Astronautics, Denver, is the prime contractor for the Odyssey project, and developed and built the orbiter. Mission operations are conducted jointly from Lockheed Martin and from JPL, a division of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena. From bolidechaser at yahoo.com Fri Feb 13 20:04:57 2009 From: bolidechaser at yahoo.com (Robert Verish) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 17:04:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: neat little Chergach stones and Tamdakht/Tishka slices Message-ID: <984290.62769.qm@web51704.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Sorry for the late post, but here are some auctions ending soon: Even if you're not interested in bidding, you may find the images of the oriented stones of some interest. -- Enjoy, Bob V. From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Fri Feb 13 20:11:30 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 17:11:30 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Dawn Journal - February 12, 2009 Message-ID: <200902140111.RAA01223@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://dawn.jpl.nasa.gov/mission/journal_2_12_09.asp Dawn Journal Dr. Marc Rayman February 12, 2009 Dear Charles Dawnwins, Dawn continues to close in on Mars, ready for the gravitational slingshot that will help it on its expedition to the asteroid belt and its quest to gain insights into the evolution of the solar system. The ship remains on course, with the latest calculations of its trajectory being very close to those described in the last log. The spacecraft will streak about 549 kilometers (341 miles) above the planet at 4:28 p.m. PST on February 17. While Dawn and Mars move in their separate orbits around the Sun, they are approaching each other at the stately pace of 2.56 kilometers/second (5720 miles/hour). Gradually, the gravitational pull of the planet will grow as the distance shrinks, and the spacecraft's path will start to change, beginning the boost we seek. By about noon PST on February 14, the tug from Mars will have grown to be the same as the famously gentle thrust from Dawn's ion propulsion system. When Dawn is closest to Mars, speeding past it at 5.31 kilometers/second (11,900 miles/hour), the red planet will be exerting 34,000 times greater force than the blue-green xenon beam generates. Just as a swing speeds up as it approaches the bottom of its arc and slows down as it rises again, Dawn accelerates as it gains on the planet and decelerates as it climbs away. Unlike a swing, though (at least the kind your correspondent was allowed to play on as a youngster on Earth), Dawn will not retrace its path; it will not descend again after ascending from the vicinity of Mars. It is in its own orbit around the Sun and will move too swiftly by Mars for the planet to capture it into orbit. To illustrate Dawn's arc, let's use the somewhat arbitrary speed of 4 kilometers/second (9000 miles/hour) as a reference. Over the coming days, Mars will attract Dawn, and the craft will have accelerated to that speed about 34 minutes before its closest point, still 5500 kilometers (3400 miles) away from the planet. After dipping still lower and falling still faster while it approaches Mars, the spacecraft will slow down as it departs. It will have decelerated to the same speed of 4 kilometers/second at 34 minutes after its closest encounter. Within a few days, the speed will have dropped to today's value of 2.56 kilometers/second again. The arc of Dawn's acceleration toward Mars matches the arc of its deceleration, displaying the same kind of symmetrical motion as a swing. Where then is the effect of the gravity assist? Because Dawn is in orbit around the Sun, it is the distortion of that solar orbit caused by Mars that provides the advantage to the mission. In the previous log, we saw how the benefits of the gravitational interaction with Mars could be described as changes in the spacecraft speed. The 1.1 kilometers/second (2500 miles/hour) that represented the change in the shape of the orbit means that Dawn's incoming speed and outgoing speed relative to the Sun are not the same, even though, as we saw above, they are the same relative to Mars. Before it reaches Mars, the probe will be traveling around the Sun at less than 25.5 kilometers/second (57,000 miles/hour). Thanks to the boost from Mars, the speed after the encounter will be more than 26.6 kilometers/second (59,500 miles/hour). The difference is precisely the effect described in the previous log. The reshaping of Dawn's orbit is different from the reorienting of the plane of the orbit, also explained in the previous log. The plane change from the gravity assist, of vital importance to the mission, does not manifest itself as a difference in the speed of the spacecraft around the Sun; it is a difference in the direction of motion. Nevertheless, the effect can be described as being equivalent to a change in speed (actually, in velocity), as it was in the last log. (For interested readers for whom these points are not already evident, please click here to go to the log that clarifies it. [Editor, I have not written such a log yet, although I will write an explanation in the future. In the meantime, please insert an acausal hyperlink for readers who do not want to wait.]) As Dawn plunges toward Mars, it will be coming in over the northern hemisphere, reaching above 60? latitude. As Mars bends the orbit, changing the direction the craft travels around the Sun, Dawn will depart over the southern hemisphere. Leaving the planet behind on its new path around the Sun, it will be above 60? south latitude. The focus of the Dawn team's work for the Mars encounter has been to achieve a trajectory that would deliver the probe to the target above Mars at the right time and traveling at the correct angle to accomplish the needed gravitational boost. As long as the spacecraft will be in the vicinity of such a familiar solar system site, albeit briefly, the team decided to take advantage of the occasion to calibrate the instruments that are designed to elucidate the nature of Vesta and Ceres. As mentioned at the end of the previous log, there is little Dawn can learn about Mars that is new. Indeed, it is flying higher and faster than spacecraft there right now. In addition, its instruments are intended for the initial examination of previously unexplored worlds, not the detailed investigation of a planet that already has been scrutinized by spacecraft for decades. That very scrutiny, however, means that there is a valuable database for use in comparing observations by Dawn's instruments, helping to prepare them for their assigned tasks in the asteroid belt. Dawn's observations at Mars, like the other, more distant measurements it has made of stars and planets since launch, help prepare for the real rewards of the mission. (To recapture the thrill of some of the previous in-flight observations, visit the logs of October 24, 2007, December 17, 2007, February 29 of any year, or April 22, 2008.) Each instrument will acquire data to be used in comparisons with observations made by similar instruments on spacecraft dedicated to the study of Mars. Rather than using Dawn to learn about Mars, our focus is on using Mars to learn about the performance of our instruments. This will be helpful in doing science at Vesta and Ceres and in navigating there. As we will see in subsequent logs, the positions of Vesta and Ceres are not known accurately enough that Dawn could rendezvous with them using conventional radio navigation techniques alone. To improve the navigation, the craft will take images of the bodies as it is closing in on them, and analysis of those images by the Dawn navigation team will help pin down the location of the target. Tests at Mars will contribute to characterizing the camera not only for science, but for this separate function as well. If Dawn's encounter had represented a unique opportunity to conduct vital new science, the plans would have been different. As just one example, Dawn will not attempt to acquire the highest resolution visible images that it might be capable of achieving. Instead, by smearing the view of Mars across the camera's line of sight, engineers will provide a relatively uniform illumination for the camera's detectors, providing interesting engineering data that cannot be obtained when observing the pinpoint light of stars. In preparation for the encounter, on January 20 controllers activated the gamma-ray and neutron detector (GRaND), which, despite its name, is a very modest (but wonderfully capable) member of the on-board instrumentation. The last time GRaND was operated was in April. It remains healthy and is continuing to work well, sensing the effects of cosmic radiation impinging on the spacecraft. Dawn is approaching Mars from outside the planet's orbit around the Sun. Therefore, from the spacecraft's point of view, Mars and the Sun are close together, and Mars would appear to be a thin crescent. This geometry precludes directing its instruments toward the planet well before it arrives. Designed to operate in the more distant asteroid belt, the instruments would not be able to tolerate the heating from the Sun. Therefore, although GRaND is able to detect space radiation, there would be nothing for the other instruments to do while awaiting their calibrations at Mars. These instruments will be activated on February 17 using instructions already stored onboard. Dawn will be pointing its main antenna to Earth, so the mission control team can observe telemetry, but there is no plan to send additional instructions then. The visible and infrared mapping spectrometer will be powered on at about 9:47 a.m. PST, and the primary science camera will be commanded on at about 1:21 p.m. PST. (The backup science camera has been used for other tests in flight, but it will not participate in the activities at Mars.) All the times presented here are as measured on the spacecraft. Mission controllers will have to wait more than 19 minutes, as radio signals traverse the great distance to Earth, to observe the associated telemetry. In essence, their entire view of events will be delayed by this "one-way light time." (The Dawn project remains ready to advise the FCC on the use of such a system to provide a guaranteed delay in live broadcasting.) At 1:57 p.m. PST, the spacecraft will begin turning to prepare for its calibration activities. The maneuver will move Earth out of the radio beam from the main antenna, so the spacecraft will switch to 1 of its 3 auxiliary antennas. Each of these antennas can emit a much broader beam, allowing communications over a wider range of orientations. The cost of spreading the signal over a much greater area is that when it is received at Earth, it is significantly weaker, so only a very limited amount of telemetry can be sent. For the subsequent day and a half, controllers will use this reduced flow of information to monitor Dawn's work. Meanwhile, the instruments will attempt to record neutrons, gamma-rays, and ultraviolet, visible, and infrared light, all from Mars, all providing a bonus to the mission. (Dawn has previously conducted infrared observations of Mars. At that time the spacecraft was about 100,000 times farther from the planet than it will be when it swoops by next week.) At 3:09 a.m. PST on February 19, Dawn will begin turning back to sight its main antenna on Earth once again. For more than a day, it will radio engineering data it stored during the time it could not transmit at high speed. At first, a Deep Space Network (DSN) antenna near Madrid, Spain, will receive the signals. As Earth rotates, the 34-meter (112-foot) dish will no longer be able to point to Dawn (as viewed from Madrid, Dawn will set in the west, just as the Sun, the moon, stars, and other celestial objects do), so a DSN antenna near Goldstone, California, will take over. After about 8 hours, the Goldstone facility will hand the responsibility over to a DSN antenna still farther west, near Canberra, Australia, which eventually will pass the baton once again to Madrid. At 7:48 a.m. on February 20, the spacecraft will rotate again to bring its camera to bear on Mars. By then, the view of distant Mars will be similar to what the spacecraft will have as it navigates to Vesta, once again providing an opportunity to prepare for the visit to that mysterious world. At 11:28 a.m., it will turn away from Mars for the last time and resume transmitting data back to Earth 45 minutes later. The precious capabilities of the DSN are shared among all interplanetary spacecraft, so Dawn will return to more intermittent tracking on Friday. The return of data will be completed the following week. All data that Dawn collects at Mars are considered a bonus of the mission. Indeed, when the mission was conceived, its launch was to be in 2006, and the mission to Vesta and Ceres then did not require the assistance of Mars. It was only in 2005, when the launch was rescheduled to 2007, that trajectory designers added Mars to the itinerary. The gravitational deflection is essential to the success of the mission, but the activities during the visit to Mars are secondary to the mission's principal objectives. Even before Dawn has paid a visit to Mars, engineers are already busy planning the details of the spacecraft's next assignments. Following its brief divertissement at the planet, it will continue to coast in its orbit around the Sun until June. With Mars helping to reshape its orbit, there is no need for ion thrusting for a while. In the next few logs, we will follow along as Dawn engages in other work to be completed before the resumption of its most familiar function of reaching for the asteroid belt atop a blue-green pillar of xenon ions. Dawn is 1.1 million kilometers (680 thousand miles) from Mars. It is 348 million kilometers (216 million miles) from Earth, or 910 times as far as the moon and 2.36 times as far as the Sun. Radio signals, traveling at the universal limit of the speed of light, take 39 minutes to make the round trip. From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Fri Feb 13 20:12:14 2009 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 02:12:14 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 most scientifically importantmeteorites? In-Reply-To: <20090213235529.3YE52.433248.root@web08-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com> References: <20090213235529.3YE52.433248.root@web08-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com> Message-ID: <013b01c98e41$45f089a0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> I choose L'Aigle as N?1. Cause else they wouldn't have recognized, that Chladni was right and that they are from space. Best! Martin -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von ensoramanda at ntlworld.com Gesendet: Samstag, 14. Februar 2009 00:55 An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 most scientifically importantmeteorites? Hi all, Just thought it might be interesting to discover list members opinions on what they would choose as the most important meteorites with regard to science? Which ones have been the most significant in increasing our understanding of the evolution of our solar system, and what they have taught us? Graham Ensor, UK. ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoritekid at gmail.com Fri Feb 13 20:21:00 2009 From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 17:21:00 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 most scientifically importantmeteorites? In-Reply-To: <013b01c98e41$45f089a0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> References: <20090213235529.3YE52.433248.root@web08-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com> <013b01c98e41$45f089a0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: <93aaac890902131721j403ab0d7xc53f0a97a86ad532@mail.gmail.com> Hola Martin, I would have to disagree - when you go that far back, you wind up dealing with meteorites that are of historic, rather than scientific interest. L'Aigle may be something of an exception because it did lead to the *scientific* acceptance of meteorites, but, from today's scientific perspective, I wouldn't call it very important, never mind giving it a place in the top ten. It's an ordinary chondrite, of which there are thousands - it's no more special than, say, Tenham or Gao - from a purely scientific point of view. One might as well call the earliest fossils found the most important, simply because they were found back in the day and led to our recognition of what they really represented...while they may be important, I would hesitate to call them extremely important from a scientific point of view. Regards, Jason On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 5:12 PM, Martin Altmann wrote: > I choose L'Aigle as N?1. > > Cause else they wouldn't have recognized, that Chladni was right and that > they are from space. > > Best! > Martin > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von > ensoramanda at ntlworld.com > Gesendet: Samstag, 14. Februar 2009 00:55 > An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Betreff: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 most scientifically > importantmeteorites? > > Hi all, > > Just thought it might be interesting to discover list members opinions on > what they would choose as the most important meteorites with regard to > science? Which ones have been the most significant in increasing our > understanding of the evolution of our solar system, and what they have > taught us? > > Graham Ensor, UK. > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From epgrondine at yahoo.com Fri Feb 13 20:40:34 2009 From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 17:40:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] "Dark Comets" Message-ID: <241493.48549.qm@web36903.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi all - Here's one for Paul's list: http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20126954.800-dark-comets-may-pose-threat-to-earth.htm I love the neologism: "Dark Comets". Its one whole word shorter than "dead comet fragments". Maybe that is all that was needed: a catchy name that sums up the problem. I don't think that anyone has ever done visible wavelength to IR conversion studies on any carbonaceous chondrites - anyone know any different? E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas PS - Mike, the off-site back up slogan is "daily by the week, weekly by the month, monthly by the year". Parallel or mirrored drives work pretty well, and it is best to store sensitive information on a machine not connected to the net in any way. From iann at rom.on.ca Fri Feb 13 20:52:31 2009 From: iann at rom.on.ca (Ian Nicklin) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 20:52:31 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 most scientifically importantmeteorites? Message-ID: <4995DD90020000140073DB5E@romfs77.rom.on.ca> a couple come immediately to mind as contenders: Murchison for it's load of carbon-based compounds, Calcalong Creek that got people looking for planetary meteorites, the types of the various carbonaceous chondrites and the achondrites might be considered but we're well over ten at this point. a few suggestions anyway. >>> Jason Utas 02/13/09 8:21 PM >>> Hola Martin, I would have to disagree - when you go that far back, you wind up dealing with meteorites that are of historic, rather than scientific interest. L'Aigle may be something of an exception because it did lead to the *scientific* acceptance of meteorites, but, from today's scientific perspective, I wouldn't call it very important, never mind giving it a place in the top ten. It's an ordinary chondrite, of which there are thousands - it's no more special than, say, Tenham or Gao - from a purely scientific point of view. One might as well call the earliest fossils found the most important, simply because they were found back in the day and led to our recognition of what they really represented...while they may be important, I would hesitate to call them extremely important from a scientific point of view. Regards, Jason On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 5:12 PM, Martin Altmann wrote: > I choose L'Aigle as N?1. > > Cause else they wouldn't have recognized, that Chladni was right and that > they are from space. > > Best! > Martin > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von > ensoramanda at ntlworld.com > Gesendet: Samstag, 14. Februar 2009 00:55 > An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Betreff: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 most scientifically > importantmeteorites? > > Hi all, > > Just thought it might be interesting to discover list members opinions on > what they would choose as the most important meteorites with regard to > science? Which ones have been the most significant in increasing our > understanding of the evolution of our solar system, and what they have > taught us? > > Graham Ensor, UK. > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From dave at fallingrocks.com Fri Feb 13 21:45:49 2009 From: dave at fallingrocks.com (Dave Gheesling) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 21:45:49 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 most scientificallyimportantmeteorites? In-Reply-To: <93aaac890902131721j403ab0d7xc53f0a97a86ad532@mail.gmail.com> References: <20090213235529.3YE52.433248.root@web08-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com><013b01c98e41$45f089a0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> <93aaac890902131721j403ab0d7xc53f0a97a86ad532@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <05EBE9C406B749A7A2940B9D2A0FF80F@meteorroom> Very much agree, Martin. The Darwinian/Coperincan moment...the tipping point that opened the door to the entire field, indeed (in spite of Chladni's incredible work, which should have been enough). Dave www.fallingrocks.com -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Jason Utas Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 8:21 PM To: Meteorite-list Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 most scientificallyimportantmeteorites? Hola Martin, I would have to disagree - when you go that far back, you wind up dealing with meteorites that are of historic, rather than scientific interest. L'Aigle may be something of an exception because it did lead to the *scientific* acceptance of meteorites, but, from today's scientific perspective, I wouldn't call it very important, never mind giving it a place in the top ten. It's an ordinary chondrite, of which there are thousands - it's no more special than, say, Tenham or Gao - from a purely scientific point of view. One might as well call the earliest fossils found the most important, simply because they were found back in the day and led to our recognition of what they really represented...while they may be important, I would hesitate to call them extremely important from a scientific point of view. Regards, Jason On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 5:12 PM, Martin Altmann wrote: > I choose L'Aigle as N?1. > > Cause else they wouldn't have recognized, that Chladni was right and > that they are from space. > > Best! > Martin > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von > ensoramanda at ntlworld.com > Gesendet: Samstag, 14. Februar 2009 00:55 > An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Betreff: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 most scientifically > importantmeteorites? > > Hi all, > > Just thought it might be interesting to discover list members opinions > on what they would choose as the most important meteorites with regard > to science? Which ones have been the most significant in increasing > our understanding of the evolution of our solar system, and what they > have taught us? > > Graham Ensor, UK. > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From cynapse at charter.net Fri Feb 13 22:14:38 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 22:14:38 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 most scientifically important meteorites? In-Reply-To: <93aaac890902131646o2b1eedabu77ee3c75fe1f9909@mail.gmail.com> References: <20090213235529.3YE52.433248.root@web08-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com> <93aaac890902131646o2b1eedabu77ee3c75fe1f9909@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2ndcp49va5s78c1qbrjlrvhp6i97k0gnqr@4ax.com> On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 16:46:43 -0800, you wrote: >martian meteorite), ALHA 78001 (life?), and ALHA81005 (first You mean 84001. From radio_ranch at yahoo.com Fri Feb 13 22:17:58 2009 From: radio_ranch at yahoo.com (Pat Brown) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 19:17:58 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 most scientifically important meteorites? In-Reply-To: <20090213235529.3YE52.433248.root@web08-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com> Message-ID: <472800.28109.qm@web51303.mail.re2.yahoo.com> OK Allende Murchison ALH84001 Tagish Lake Canyon Diablo (for it's Crater) Nakhla Calcalong Creek Orgueil Lost City (camera network data, orbit) Peekskill (videos, orbit data) --- On Fri, 2/13/09, ensoramanda at ntlworld.com wrote: > From: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com > Subject: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 most scientifically important meteorites? > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Friday, February 13, 2009, 3:55 PM > Hi all, > > Just thought it might be interesting to discover list > members opinions on what they would choose as the most > important meteorites with regard to science? Which ones have > been the most significant in increasing our understanding of > the evolution of our solar system, and what they have taught > us? > > Graham Ensor, UK. > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Fri Feb 13 22:27:10 2009 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 19:27:10 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Fireball Alert: North Central Kentucky Message-ID: <299799.33913.qm@web55201.mail.re4.yahoo.com> A colleague just called reporting a possible fireball over Erlangen, Kentucky at 10:04PM Eastern Daylight tonight 13 Feb 2009. She was not the direct observer but relaying details from a relative who made the observation A greenish-white fireball approximately 2/3rd the diameter of the full moon was observed through a south southeastern facing window falling near vertically. No Magnitude estimate other than "it lit up the room" and "moving very fast". Elton From catoni52 at sympatico.ca Fri Feb 13 22:29:06 2009 From: catoni52 at sympatico.ca (catoni52 at sympatico.ca) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 03:29:06 +0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] Finding A Meteorite While Gold Prospecting Message-ID: I don't know if anyone has seen this. If so, I apologise for repeating it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZMhTfOBzNY Cato From clp at alumni.caltech.edu Fri Feb 13 22:36:10 2009 From: clp at alumni.caltech.edu (Chris Peterson) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 20:36:10 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Finding A Meteorite While Gold Prospecting References: Message-ID: <7A30DC0EC2204D43A200D51E70AEC59E@bellatrix> Cotopaxi was found by people prospecting for gold with a metal detector. It was months before they found out they had a meteorite. Chris ***************************************** Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 8:29 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Finding A Meteorite While Gold Prospecting >I don't know if anyone has seen this. If so, I apologise for repeating it. > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZMhTfOBzNY > > Cato From gmhupe at htn.net Fri Feb 13 22:36:35 2009 From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 22:36:35 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 mostscientificallyimportantmeteorites? References: <20090213235529.3YE52.433248.root@web08-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.co m><013b01c98e41$45f089a0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2><93aaac890902131721j403ab0d7xc53f0a97a86ad532@mail.gmail.com> <05EBE9C406B749A7A2940B9D2A0FF80F@meteorroom> Message-ID: <091582B27F674C20BC52A8537A64528D@Gregor> Hello All, The question was, "What are the top 10 most scientifically important meteorites?". While great respect and recognition should be awarded to Chladni for his work resulting in proving "rocks" were from space and resulting in 'meteoritics', the initial question what the top 10 "scientifically" important meteorites are (or people's beliefs are). I side with Jason in the fact that one historic meteorite, or one type, does not constitute understanding, or advanced knowledge of our solar system or meteoritics than does representative meteorites from "all" groups of classifications.The abundance of meteorite types from the Sahara has provided so much more "scientific" understanding of our solar system than many people give credit to. To name a few names as "top 10" is impossible since there are dozens of specific, officially recognized meteorites that qualify under the initial question of this thread to be, "scientifically important". Best regards, Greg ==================== Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmhupe at htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 ==================== Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Gheesling" To: "'Jason Utas'" ; "'Meteorite-list'" Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 9:45 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 mostscientificallyimportantmeteorites? Very much agree, Martin. The Darwinian/Coperincan moment...the tipping point that opened the door to the entire field, indeed (in spite of Chladni's incredible work, which should have been enough). Dave www.fallingrocks.com -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Jason Utas Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 8:21 PM To: Meteorite-list Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 most scientificallyimportantmeteorites? Hola Martin, I would have to disagree - when you go that far back, you wind up dealing with meteorites that are of historic, rather than scientific interest. L'Aigle may be something of an exception because it did lead to the *scientific* acceptance of meteorites, but, from today's scientific perspective, I wouldn't call it very important, never mind giving it a place in the top ten. It's an ordinary chondrite, of which there are thousands - it's no more special than, say, Tenham or Gao - from a purely scientific point of view. One might as well call the earliest fossils found the most important, simply because they were found back in the day and led to our recognition of what they really represented...while they may be important, I would hesitate to call them extremely important from a scientific point of view. Regards, Jason On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 5:12 PM, Martin Altmann wrote: > I choose L'Aigle as N?1. > > Cause else they wouldn't have recognized, that Chladni was right and > that they are from space. > > Best! > Martin > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von > ensoramanda at ntlworld.com > Gesendet: Samstag, 14. Februar 2009 00:55 > An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Betreff: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 most scientifically > importantmeteorites? > > Hi all, > > Just thought it might be interesting to discover list members opinions > on what they would choose as the most important meteorites with regard > to science? Which ones have been the most significant in increasing > our understanding of the evolution of our solar system, and what they > have taught us? > > Graham Ensor, UK. > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From pshugar at clearwire.net Fri Feb 13 22:40:02 2009 From: pshugar at clearwire.net (Pete Shugar) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 21:40:02 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 most scientificallyimportant meteorites? References: <472800.28109.qm@web51303.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <003201c98e55$ebd3a410$d0e11960@laptop> I would respectfully add Carancas, for it's rewriting of crater formation theory. Pete IMCA 1733 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pat Brown" To: ; Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 9:17 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 most scientificallyimportant meteorites? > > OK > > Allende > Murchison > ALH84001 > Tagish Lake > Canyon Diablo (for it's Crater) > Nakhla > Calcalong Creek > Orgueil > Lost City (camera network data, orbit) > Peekskill (videos, orbit data) > > > --- On Fri, 2/13/09, ensoramanda at ntlworld.com > wrote: > >> From: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com >> Subject: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 most scientifically >> important meteorites? >> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> Date: Friday, February 13, 2009, 3:55 PM >> Hi all, >> >> Just thought it might be interesting to discover list >> members opinions on what they would choose as the most >> important meteorites with regard to science? Which ones have >> been the most significant in increasing our understanding of >> the evolution of our solar system, and what they have taught >> us? >> >> Graham Ensor, UK. >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoritefinder at gmail.com Fri Feb 13 22:46:01 2009 From: meteoritefinder at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 20:46:01 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Finding A Meteorite While Gold Prospecting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <468bf6050902131946o17e6f9b5q91168dd1375fce1c@mail.gmail.com> Well I am no expert : ) but I am going to go out on a limb and predict that the meteorite was planted. First of all meteorites are not found where gold is found in the gut of the wash. This is the least likely place to find a meteorite. When you find a meteorite it has likely been sitting in the same place for many years and in the middle of a wash, well it is not likely that it has been there even a single year let alone hundreds of years. It looks like a nice NWAXXX and the video is a simple set up. Not to mention the guy just found his first meteorite and sounds like he is reading a script, please give me a break. Also the place where the stone was sitting looks like it has been there for about 15 minutes, when you make a real find the meteorite leaves a mark on the earth and there is no doubt it has been sitting there for a long time. This one I am guessing has been in that spot for a total of 15 minutes. Just my 2 cents but BS! On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 8:29 PM, wrote: > I don't know if anyone has seen this. If so, I apologise for repeating it. > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZMhTfOBzNY > > Cato > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- Mike Miller 230 Greenway Dr. Kingman Az 86401 www.meteoritefinder.com 928-753-6825 From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com Fri Feb 13 23:10:24 2009 From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 20:10:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Tishka/Tamdakht/Tamdaght images Message-ID: <258912.77586.qm@web45615.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Many thanks to Aid for this incredible sample of the Dec 20, 2008 fall. I took some pictures and thought I would share them with you all. Its an outstanding meteorite that will stay in my personal collection for quite some time. http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/DSCF0441.jpg http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/DSCF0446.jpg http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/DSCF0451.jpg http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/DSCF0450.jpg http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/DSCF0455.jpg http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/DSCF0442.jpg http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/DSCF0443.jpg Greg C. From meteoritefinder at yahoo.com Fri Feb 13 23:18:48 2009 From: meteoritefinder at yahoo.com (Robert Woolard) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 20:18:48 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 mostscientificallyimportantmeteorites? Message-ID: <477562.8706.qm@web39607.mail.mud.yahoo.com> All, How about Portales Valley? To quote a few lines from my article a few years back: "Statements from the Lunar and Planetary Science Conference XXX, 1999 include: "there is something extraordinary about PV" ... The same conference issued the opinion that: "much more research (on PV) is needed. The work is important as it may completely change our view of the geologic histories of the asteroids in which several types of meteorites formed"4. And Derek Sears writes that (in regard to the understanding the evolutionary history of meteorites) the "PV meteorite is important"6." Best wishes, Robert Woolard From darryl at dof3.com Sat Feb 14 04:47:44 2009 From: darryl at dof3.com (Darryl Pitt) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 04:47:44 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 most scientificallyimportant meteorites? In-Reply-To: <003201c98e55$ebd3a410$d0e11960@laptop> References: <472800.28109.qm@web51303.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <003201c98e55$ebd3a410$d0e11960@laptop> Message-ID: <5FE730A7-87C4-45E2-AEB6-1011F4FADA3B@dof3.com> In my naivete, I think this is largely quantifiable--with a few caveats. If the premise is that a meteorite referenced in five different abstracts is more scientifically important than a meteorite referenced in one (and I'm not referring to waypoints), wouldn't it follow that meteorites appearing in the most abstracts are more important? You will find a high correlation between the highest quantity of studies on those meteorites originally proffered by Jason. At the same time, there is the matter of "availability of material." For example, 12-15 years ago I recall Allende being the most researched meteorite by far, which is in no small part due to its ready availability. Around the same time I recall several researchers bemoaning their inability to get their hands on Krymka. And then, more subjectively, there is the matter of the one earth- shaking study, say, the determination of life on Mars....which is related to the matter of "firsts" which shape future thinking. It's a fun exercise.... Happy Valentine's! d, On Feb 13, 2009, at 10:40 PM, Pete Shugar wrote: > I would respectfully add Carancas, for it's rewriting of crater > formation theory. > Pete IMCA 1733 > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pat Brown" > To: ; > Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 9:17 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 most > scientificallyimportant meteorites? > > >> >> OK >> >> Allende >> Murchison >> ALH84001 >> Tagish Lake >> Canyon Diablo (for it's Crater) >> Nakhla >> Calcalong Creek >> Orgueil >> Lost City (camera network data, orbit) >> Peekskill (videos, orbit data) >> >> >> --- On Fri, 2/13/09, ensoramanda at ntlworld.com > > wrote: >> >>> From: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com >>> Subject: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 most scientifically >>> important meteorites? >>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> Date: Friday, February 13, 2009, 3:55 PM >>> Hi all, >>> >>> Just thought it might be interesting to discover list >>> members opinions on what they would choose as the most >>> important meteorites with regard to science? Which ones have >>> been the most significant in increasing our understanding of >>> the evolution of our solar system, and what they have taught >>> us? >>> >>> Graham Ensor, UK. >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From michael at spacerocksinc.com Sat Feb 14 07:34:21 2009 From: michael at spacerocksinc.com (Michael Johnson) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 04:34:21 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - February 14, 2009 Message-ID: <23417471.692591234614861395.JavaMail.root@mbs5.homesteadmail.com> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/February_14_2009.html From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Sat Feb 14 07:59:04 2009 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 13:59:04 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 most scientificallyimportantmeteorites? In-Reply-To: <93aaac890902131721j403ab0d7xc53f0a97a86ad532@mail.gmail.com> References: <20090213235529.3YE52.433248.root@web08-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com><013b01c98e41$45f089a0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> <93aaac890902131721j403ab0d7xc53f0a97a86ad532@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <002c01c98ea4$049b5800$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Hi Jason, Even though we're living in a fast world and the "modernism" of our days may give the impression, that new scientific recoveries are drawn out of the nothing. But science and ideas are always integrated in traditions and contexts and are built on earlier steps. Chladni hadn't invented the idea, that the stones may stem from outside. He connected the idea that they come from space with the fireballs, the existing stones and reports about the falls and postulated additionally, that they could survive the atmospheric travel. That approach was ridiculous for his contemporary scientists. After the period of "enlightment" it was impossible that chunks fall from sky, Newton required empty spaces between the planets or at it best, cause they were Aristotelians, they had to be atmospheric products. (Although Tycho had measured long before the parallaxes of comets, to find out that they move indeed in space). So Chladni's weird theory never would have been accepted, if there wouldn't have happened that proof, the mighty shower of L'Aigle, conveniently close to the Acad?mie de sciences. Therefore L'Aigle is for me a benchmark. Without L'Aigle no Chladni, no Schreibers, no Daubr?e...no modern meteoritics. (At least not to the advanced stage we have today). Shhht Jason, btw. Chladni isn't that much known as Father of meteoritics, but for his "Acoustics", he certainly is partially responsible for the gig tootling out from your speakers, while you're writing to the list :-) Sure it's only an ordinary chondrite, but you don't meet the meaning of this milestone, if you look with today's eyes on it. > It's an ordinary chondrite, of which there are thousands Which gives in fact to that class an especially high scientific importance, doesn't it? The chondrites conserved the most original information about the origin of our solar system, the processes who lead to the formation of planets and they resemble much more the stuff we are all made from, than any differentiated meteorite, which tells us rather the history and development of his individual parent body. And ready we aren't yet with the chondrites. Ho many theories of chondrules genesis we have at present? Eleven? Look the recent decade, the discovery of protoplanetary discs around other stars..... and so on. Only because they are so readily available to the collectors and despite the antartcic ones so cheap like never before (yes Mrs.Caroline Smith. Fletcher, Hey, check the museum's archives, had to pay much more than you), they shouldn't be disregarded. Hey, and confess Jason! The sight of something like that http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/36.956g.jpg doesn't it made your mouth water? Well, each warehouse telescope for 30 bucks is better than that, which Galilei pointed to the Moon or Jupiter. But what for an importance it had! Would we have a Hubble Space telescope now, without that use of the lousy lense 400 years ago? (Although maybe Galileo's or Copernicus' role is maybe sometimes somewhat overrated, media stars... Copernicus' system was in practise inoperative and he had his Islamic and antique antecessors - I'm a fan of Tycho, which was much more important for modern astronomy and our view of the world, as he was the first, who trumped the Islamic astronomy. Without the results of his large-scale instruments, no Kepler, no Newton, no Oberth, no Rovers on Mars, no security that the pieces in the Chladni Boxes really originated from the red planet...). Of course it's never a continuously direct and mono-causal development... Chance and accident are also factors. Allende and Murchison e.g. never would rank in the importance among the first places, if they hadn't such large tkws or if they had fallen in the oceans and if there the Moon labs weren't just ready, when they felt. But in general L'Aigle was the proof. Scientifically important, because with that fall, the concept of meteorites had to be accepted and the branch of this science was born at all. So it's my number one - only in my personal opinion of course. If we follow your criteria, Jason, everything but the very new had to be ruled out and most probably we would have to make a ranking of the so far unique - the ungrouped and similar exotics, where we don't have fully the clues, what exactly it could be. Off now, have to jump into my carriage without horses. (Hmmm was that important? Quite an unacceptable junk... http://kuerzer.de/unimport and we certainly would prefer a Lamborghini :-) Best! Martin -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Jason Utas Gesendet: Samstag, 14. Februar 2009 02:21 An: Meteorite-list Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 most scientificallyimportantmeteorites? Hola Martin, I would have to disagree - when you go that far back, you wind up dealing with meteorites that are of historic, rather than scientific interest. L'Aigle may be something of an exception because it did lead to the *scientific* acceptance of meteorites, but, from today's scientific perspective, I wouldn't call it very important, never mind giving it a place in the top ten. It's an ordinary chondrite, of which there are thousands - it's no more special than, say, Tenham or Gao - from a purely scientific point of view. One might as well call the earliest fossils found the most important, simply because they were found back in the day and led to our recognition of what they really represented...while they may be important, I would hesitate to call them extremely important from a scientific point of view. Regards, Jason On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 5:12 PM, Martin Altmann wrote: > I choose L'Aigle as N?1. > > Cause else they wouldn't have recognized, that Chladni was right and that > they are from space. > > Best! > Martin > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von > ensoramanda at ntlworld.com > Gesendet: Samstag, 14. Februar 2009 00:55 > An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Betreff: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 most scientifically > importantmeteorites? > > Hi all, > > Just thought it might be interesting to discover list members opinions on > what they would choose as the most important meteorites with regard to > science? Which ones have been the most significant in increasing our > understanding of the evolution of our solar system, and what they have > taught us? > > Graham Ensor, UK. > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From info at meteorites.com.au Sat Feb 14 08:54:37 2009 From: info at meteorites.com.au (Jeff Kuyken) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 00:54:37 +1100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Finding A Meteorite While Gold Prospecting In-Reply-To: <468bf6050902131946o17e6f9b5q91168dd1375fce1c@mail.gmail.com> References: <468bf6050902131946o17e6f9b5q91168dd1375fce1c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: That was my thought too Mike. Apart from the points you raised the stone is virtually totally crusted yet almost everything around him is rock. But the most ironic thing is that I'll bet this was 'found' in a state where the state owns the meteorite... lol... he'll have to hand his 'find' over to the state! ;-) Cheers, Jeff ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Miller" To: Cc: Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 2:46 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Finding A Meteorite While Gold Prospecting > Well I am no expert : ) but I am going to go out on a limb and predict > that the meteorite was planted. First of all meteorites are not found > where gold is found in the gut of the wash. This is the least likely > place to find a meteorite. When you find a meteorite it has likely > been sitting in the same place for many years and in the middle of a > wash, well it is not likely that it has been there even a single year > let alone hundreds of years. It looks like a nice NWAXXX and the video > is a simple set up. Not to mention the guy just found his first > meteorite and sounds like he is reading a script, please give me a > break. Also the place where the stone was sitting looks like it has > been there for about 15 minutes, when you make a real find the > meteorite leaves a mark on the earth and there is no doubt it has been > sitting there for a long time. This one I am guessing has been in that > spot for a total of 15 minutes. Just my 2 cents but BS! > > On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 8:29 PM, wrote: >> I don't know if anyone has seen this. If so, I apologise for repeating >> it. >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZMhTfOBzNY >> >> Cato >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > > > > -- > Mike Miller 230 Greenway Dr. Kingman Az 86401 > www.meteoritefinder.com > 928-753-6825 > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From mpg444 at yahoo.com Sat Feb 14 10:52:10 2009 From: mpg444 at yahoo.com (Mike Groetz) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 07:52:10 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Search on for space rock Message-ID: <463588.2221.qm@web33006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> http://www.edmontonsun.com/News/Edmonton/2009/02/14/8390706-sun.html Search on for space rock Astronomy experts say it's possible a piece of space rock flew across the sky Thursday night north of Edmonton. But Frank Florian, director of space sciences at the Telus World of Science in Edmonton, said he is unsure if this space rock actually hit the ground. Florian received several calls about the sighting with reports that the flash was spotted near Gibbons and Redwater just after 10 p.m. It was reportedly a greenish-white colour and moving towards the west, he said. While this recent sighting was nowhere near as spectacular and widely reported as the famous meteor in November, fragments of which were discovered near Lloydminster, Florian still encourages those who saw a flash in the sky to report their sightings to the Meteorite and Impacts Advisory Committee's website at http://miac.uqac.ca. From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com Sat Feb 14 14:27:22 2009 From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 11:27:22 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] updated website and tucson pics Message-ID: <825910.65082.qm@web57802.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi everyone.I hope everyone is having a great weekend so far and happy valentines day as well.I added a 4th tucson pic page and have updated my website with alot of my tucson pieces as well as fine tuning some of my web pages.View at your liesure and have a great day. ? Steve R.Arnold,Chicago! http://chicagometeorites.net/ From mlblood at cox.net Sat Feb 14 16:21:48 2009 From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael Blood) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 13:21:48 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 most scientifically important meteorites? In-Reply-To: <002c01c98ea4$049b5800$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: Hi Jason and all, First of all, I think it should be mentioned that any such List is inevitably biased. Next, that said list cannot possibly "nail" a specific 10 meteorites. Assuming these two prospects are accepted, here are 10 Very respectable meteorites that would certainly merit full Consideration in comprising such a list ( and at least one "why" Per each: 1) Canyon Diablo: prototypical and stable iron from what was recognized as the "only" impact crater for a very long time. It Can be added that it was also the original site of the Nininger Museum 2) Allende: HUGE strewn field and, at the time, more than Doubled the total weight of known CR material available. It was also a witnessed fall with multiple hammer stones Striking homes and patios 3) Esquel: "The queen of the Pallasites" with fantastic color, Translucency, freedom from rust and in quantities large enough To allow any collector to have one of the few stable Pallasites. 4) Murchison: Providing most of the amino acids that comprise the "building blocks" of life, perhaps the most "studied" of any meteorite Ever and a major contributor to the angiosperm hypothesis. Again, a witnessed fall and a hammer. 5) Portalas Valley: Perhaps a surprise in many lists, this specimen has A unique physiology. Also a hammer. 6) Weston: The first scientifically recognized meteorite in "the new world." Also a hammer. 7. L'Aigle: see below. (Also, there will be a forthcoming article on the Status of L'Aigle as a hammer). 8) Ensischeim: "The meteorite from hell." (also a hammer if you care to consider a church courtyard a man made artifact). This is one of the richest events ever in the "lore" of meteorites. 9) Sikhote-Aline: producing thousands of what are pretty much agreed to be the world's most visually impressive iron individuals. Also a rare Iron witnessed fall. 10) Sylacauga: the only fully documented human striking meteorite. I could easily add several more, but these are just my 2 cents worth, anyway. I am likely wrong, as my wife repeatedly assures me I am. Best wishes, Michael On 2/14/09 4:59 AM, "Martin Altmann" wrote: > Hi Jason, > > Even though we're living in a fast world and the "modernism" of our days may > give the impression, that new scientific recoveries are drawn out of the > nothing. > But science and ideas are always integrated in traditions and contexts and > are built on earlier steps. > Chladni hadn't invented the idea, that the stones may stem from outside. > He connected the idea that they come from space with the fireballs, the > existing stones and reports about the falls and postulated additionally, > that they could survive the atmospheric travel. > That approach was ridiculous for his contemporary scientists. > After the period of "enlightment" it was impossible that chunks fall from > sky, Newton required empty spaces between the planets or at it best, cause > they were Aristotelians, they had to be atmospheric products. > (Although Tycho had measured long before the parallaxes of comets, to find > out that they move indeed in space). > > So Chladni's weird theory never would have been accepted, if there wouldn't > have happened that proof, the mighty shower of L'Aigle, conveniently close > to the Acad?mie de sciences. > > Therefore L'Aigle is for me a benchmark. Without L'Aigle no Chladni, no > Schreibers, no Daubr?e...no modern meteoritics. (At least not to the > advanced stage we have today). > > Shhht Jason, btw. Chladni isn't that much known as Father of meteoritics, > but for his "Acoustics", he certainly is partially responsible for the gig > tootling out from your speakers, while you're writing to the list :-) > > Sure it's only an ordinary chondrite, but you don't meet the meaning of this > milestone, if you look with today's eyes on it. > >> It's an ordinary chondrite, of which there are thousands > > Which gives in fact to that class an especially high scientific importance, > doesn't it? The chondrites conserved the most original information about the > origin of our solar system, the processes who lead to the formation of > planets and they resemble much more the stuff we are all made from, than any > differentiated meteorite, which tells us rather the history and development > of his individual parent body. And ready we aren't yet with the chondrites. > Ho many theories of chondrules genesis we have at present? Eleven? > Look the recent decade, the discovery of protoplanetary discs around other > stars..... and so on. > Only because they are so readily available to the collectors and despite the > antartcic ones so cheap like never before (yes Mrs.Caroline Smith. Fletcher, > Hey, check the museum's archives, had to pay much more than you), > they shouldn't be disregarded. > > Hey, and confess Jason! The sight of something like that > http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/36.956g.jpg > doesn't it made your mouth water? > > > Well, each warehouse telescope for 30 bucks is better than that, which > Galilei pointed to the Moon or Jupiter. But what for an importance it had! > Would we have a Hubble Space telescope now, without that use of the lousy > lense 400 years ago? (Although maybe Galileo's or Copernicus' role is maybe > sometimes somewhat overrated, media stars... Copernicus' system was in > practise inoperative and he had his Islamic and antique antecessors - I'm a > fan of Tycho, which was much more important for modern astronomy and our > view of the world, as he was the first, who trumped the Islamic astronomy. > Without the results of his large-scale instruments, no Kepler, no Newton, no > Oberth, no Rovers on Mars, no security that the pieces in the Chladni Boxes > really originated from the red planet...). > Of course it's never a continuously direct and mono-causal development... > Chance and accident are also factors. > Allende and Murchison e.g. never would rank in the importance among the > first places, if they hadn't such large tkws or if they had fallen in the > oceans and if there the Moon labs weren't just ready, when they felt. > > But in general L'Aigle was the proof. > Scientifically important, because with that fall, the concept of meteorites > had to be accepted and the branch of this science was born at all. > > So it's my number one - only in my personal opinion of course. > > If we follow your criteria, Jason, everything but the very new had to be > ruled out and most probably we would have to make a ranking of the so far > unique - the ungrouped and similar exotics, where we don't have fully the > clues, what exactly it could be. > > Off now, have to jump into my carriage without horses. > (Hmmm was that important? Quite an unacceptable junk... > http://kuerzer.de/unimport > and we certainly would prefer a Lamborghini :-) > > Best! > Martin > > > > > > > > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Jason > Utas > Gesendet: Samstag, 14. Februar 2009 02:21 > An: Meteorite-list > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 most > scientificallyimportantmeteorites? > > Hola Martin, > I would have to disagree - when you go that far back, you wind up > dealing with meteorites that are of historic, rather than scientific > interest. L'Aigle may be something of an exception because it did > lead to the *scientific* acceptance of meteorites, but, from today's > scientific perspective, I wouldn't call it very important, never mind > giving it a place in the top ten. It's an ordinary chondrite, of > which there are thousands - it's no more special than, say, Tenham or > Gao - from a purely scientific point of view. > One might as well call the earliest fossils found the most important, > simply because they were found back in the day and led to our > recognition of what they really represented...while they may be > important, I would hesitate to call them extremely important from a > scientific point of view. > Regards, > Jason > > On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 5:12 PM, Martin Altmann > wrote: >> I choose L'Aigle as N?1. >> >> Cause else they wouldn't have recognized, that Chladni was right and that >> they are from space. >> >> Best! >> Martin >> >> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- >> Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com >> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von >> ensoramanda at ntlworld.com >> Gesendet: Samstag, 14. Februar 2009 00:55 >> An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> Betreff: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 most scientifically >> importantmeteorites? >> >> Hi all, >> >> Just thought it might be interesting to discover list members opinions on >> what they would choose as the most important meteorites with regard to >> science? Which ones have been the most significant in increasing our >> understanding of the evolution of our solar system, and what they have >> taught us? >> >> Graham Ensor, UK. >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoritekid at gmail.com Sat Feb 14 18:08:48 2009 From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 15:08:48 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 most scientifically important meteorites? In-Reply-To: References: <002c01c98ea4$049b5800$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: <93aaac890902141508x3a671c13k1b972f8a36c1eabc@mail.gmail.com> Hola All, I would have to respectfully disagree. The original post my Graham asked for a list of ten of "the most important meteorites with regard to science," and he then went on to ask: "Which ones have been the most significant in increasing our understanding of the evolution of our solar system, and what they have taught us?" I believe that the implication of his email was not to ask for a list of meteorites that helped to further our acceptance of meteoritics as a field, but rather to obtain a list of the ten most scientifically interesting meteorites. And, to be perfectly frank, if L'Aigle had been any other type (iron, stony-iron, etc), the outcome of the situation would have been the same. As a meteorite, while it did help to open our eyes as to what was actually out there, it did little to tell us of the history of the formation of the solar system. And Michael's list is more of a list of the most beautiful/interesting meteorites from the point of view of a collector...it's just a different sort of list. Did Esquel or Sylacouga contribute to our knowledge about the early solar system? Not particularly, but they are two of the more desireable meteorites around, for non-scientific reasons. Canyon Diablo is interesting in its own right as a crater-forming meteorite, as it helped us to understand impact dynamics - but as to how that plays into our understanding of the evolution of the solar system...it doesn't, really. Regards, Jason On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at 1:21 PM, Michael Blood wrote: > Hi Jason and all, > First of all, I think it should be mentioned that any such > List is inevitably biased. > Next, that said list cannot possibly "nail" a specific 10 > meteorites. > Assuming these two prospects are accepted, here are 10 > Very respectable meteorites that would certainly merit full > Consideration in comprising such a list ( and at least one "why" > Per each: > > 1) Canyon Diablo: > prototypical and stable iron from what was > recognized as the "only" impact crater for a very long time. It > Can be added that it was also the original site of the Nininger > Museum > > 2) Allende: HUGE strewn field and, at the time, more than > Doubled the total weight of known CR material available. > It was also a witnessed fall with multiple hammer stones > Striking homes and patios > > 3) Esquel: "The queen of the Pallasites" with fantastic color, > Translucency, freedom from rust and in quantities large enough > To allow any collector to have one of the few stable Pallasites. > > 4) Murchison: Providing most of the amino acids that comprise the > "building blocks" of life, perhaps the most "studied" of any meteorite > Ever and a major contributor to the angiosperm hypothesis. Again, > a witnessed fall and a hammer. > > 5) Portalas Valley: Perhaps a surprise in many lists, this specimen has > A unique physiology. Also a hammer. > > 6) Weston: The first scientifically recognized meteorite in "the new world." > Also a hammer. > > 7. L'Aigle: see below. (Also, there will be a forthcoming article on the > Status of L'Aigle as a hammer). > > 8) Ensischeim: "The meteorite from hell." (also a hammer if you care to > consider a church courtyard a man made artifact). This is one of the richest > events ever in the "lore" of meteorites. > > 9) Sikhote-Aline: producing thousands of what are pretty much agreed to be > the world's most visually impressive iron individuals. Also a rare Iron > witnessed fall. > > 10) Sylacauga: the only fully documented human striking meteorite. > > I could easily add several more, but these are just my 2 cents > worth, anyway. I am likely wrong, as my wife repeatedly assures me > I am. > Best wishes, Michael > > > On 2/14/09 4:59 AM, "Martin Altmann" wrote: > >> Hi Jason, >> >> Even though we're living in a fast world and the "modernism" of our days may >> give the impression, that new scientific recoveries are drawn out of the >> nothing. >> But science and ideas are always integrated in traditions and contexts and >> are built on earlier steps. >> Chladni hadn't invented the idea, that the stones may stem from outside. >> He connected the idea that they come from space with the fireballs, the >> existing stones and reports about the falls and postulated additionally, >> that they could survive the atmospheric travel. >> That approach was ridiculous for his contemporary scientists. >> After the period of "enlightment" it was impossible that chunks fall from >> sky, Newton required empty spaces between the planets or at it best, cause >> they were Aristotelians, they had to be atmospheric products. >> (Although Tycho had measured long before the parallaxes of comets, to find >> out that they move indeed in space). >> >> So Chladni's weird theory never would have been accepted, if there wouldn't >> have happened that proof, the mighty shower of L'Aigle, conveniently close >> to the Acad?mie de sciences. >> >> Therefore L'Aigle is for me a benchmark. Without L'Aigle no Chladni, no >> Schreibers, no Daubr?e...no modern meteoritics. (At least not to the >> advanced stage we have today). >> >> Shhht Jason, btw. Chladni isn't that much known as Father of meteoritics, >> but for his "Acoustics", he certainly is partially responsible for the gig >> tootling out from your speakers, while you're writing to the list :-) >> >> Sure it's only an ordinary chondrite, but you don't meet the meaning of this >> milestone, if you look with today's eyes on it. >> >>> It's an ordinary chondrite, of which there are thousands >> >> Which gives in fact to that class an especially high scientific importance, >> doesn't it? The chondrites conserved the most original information about the >> origin of our solar system, the processes who lead to the formation of >> planets and they resemble much more the stuff we are all made from, than any >> differentiated meteorite, which tells us rather the history and development >> of his individual parent body. And ready we aren't yet with the chondrites. >> Ho many theories of chondrules genesis we have at present? Eleven? >> Look the recent decade, the discovery of protoplanetary discs around other >> stars..... and so on. >> Only because they are so readily available to the collectors and despite the >> antartcic ones so cheap like never before (yes Mrs.Caroline Smith. Fletcher, >> Hey, check the museum's archives, had to pay much more than you), >> they shouldn't be disregarded. >> >> Hey, and confess Jason! The sight of something like that >> http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/36.956g.jpg >> doesn't it made your mouth water? >> >> >> Well, each warehouse telescope for 30 bucks is better than that, which >> Galilei pointed to the Moon or Jupiter. But what for an importance it had! >> Would we have a Hubble Space telescope now, without that use of the lousy >> lense 400 years ago? (Although maybe Galileo's or Copernicus' role is maybe >> sometimes somewhat overrated, media stars... Copernicus' system was in >> practise inoperative and he had his Islamic and antique antecessors - I'm a >> fan of Tycho, which was much more important for modern astronomy and our >> view of the world, as he was the first, who trumped the Islamic astronomy. >> Without the results of his large-scale instruments, no Kepler, no Newton, no >> Oberth, no Rovers on Mars, no security that the pieces in the Chladni Boxes >> really originated from the red planet...). >> Of course it's never a continuously direct and mono-causal development... >> Chance and accident are also factors. >> Allende and Murchison e.g. never would rank in the importance among the >> first places, if they hadn't such large tkws or if they had fallen in the >> oceans and if there the Moon labs weren't just ready, when they felt. >> >> But in general L'Aigle was the proof. >> Scientifically important, because with that fall, the concept of meteorites >> had to be accepted and the branch of this science was born at all. >> >> So it's my number one - only in my personal opinion of course. >> >> If we follow your criteria, Jason, everything but the very new had to be >> ruled out and most probably we would have to make a ranking of the so far >> unique - the ungrouped and similar exotics, where we don't have fully the >> clues, what exactly it could be. >> >> Off now, have to jump into my carriage without horses. >> (Hmmm was that important? Quite an unacceptable junk... >> http://kuerzer.de/unimport >> and we certainly would prefer a Lamborghini :-) >> >> Best! >> Martin >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- >> Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com >> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Jason >> Utas >> Gesendet: Samstag, 14. Februar 2009 02:21 >> An: Meteorite-list >> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 most >> scientificallyimportantmeteorites? >> >> Hola Martin, >> I would have to disagree - when you go that far back, you wind up >> dealing with meteorites that are of historic, rather than scientific >> interest. L'Aigle may be something of an exception because it did >> lead to the *scientific* acceptance of meteorites, but, from today's >> scientific perspective, I wouldn't call it very important, never mind >> giving it a place in the top ten. It's an ordinary chondrite, of >> which there are thousands - it's no more special than, say, Tenham or >> Gao - from a purely scientific point of view. >> One might as well call the earliest fossils found the most important, >> simply because they were found back in the day and led to our >> recognition of what they really represented...while they may be >> important, I would hesitate to call them extremely important from a >> scientific point of view. >> Regards, >> Jason >> >> On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 5:12 PM, Martin Altmann >> wrote: >>> I choose L'Aigle as N?1. >>> >>> Cause else they wouldn't have recognized, that Chladni was right and that >>> they are from space. >>> >>> Best! >>> Martin >>> >>> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- >>> Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com >>> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von >>> ensoramanda at ntlworld.com >>> Gesendet: Samstag, 14. Februar 2009 00:55 >>> An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> Betreff: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 most scientifically >>> importantmeteorites? >>> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> Just thought it might be interesting to discover list members opinions on >>> what they would choose as the most important meteorites with regard to >>> science? Which ones have been the most significant in increasing our >>> understanding of the evolution of our solar system, and what they have >>> taught us? >>> >>> Graham Ensor, UK. >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From rob at nakhladogmeteorites.com Sat Feb 14 18:26:37 2009 From: rob at nakhladogmeteorites.com (Rob Wesel) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 15:26:37 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD- Camel Donga Babies Message-ID: <007201c98efb$af136870$6501a8c0@windows9bb74fe> Hello all It's been a while since I have posted any sales, and this is a good one. Little baby Camel Dongas priced to fit any budget, the more you buy the cheaper they get. Here's the photo with an email link to contact for pricing. Prices available only to interested buyers as there is room for you to make money on these. Happy Holiday Weekend http://www.nakhladogmeteorites.com/catalog/cameldonga.htm Rob Wesel http://www.nakhladogmeteorites.com ------------------ We are the music makers... and we are the dreamers of the dreams. Willy Wonka, 1971 From info at meteorites.com.au Sat Feb 14 18:57:27 2009 From: info at meteorites.com.au (Jeff Kuyken) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 10:57:27 +1100 Subject: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 most scientificallyimportant meteorites? In-Reply-To: <93aaac890902141508x3a671c13k1b972f8a36c1eabc@mail.gmail.com> References: <002c01c98ea4$049b5800$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> <93aaac890902141508x3a671c13k1b972f8a36c1eabc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I would have to agree with where you're coming from Jason. I think you would need to make a number of Top 10 lists for different reasons. Along with "the top 10 most scientifically important meteorites" you might also have "the top 10 meteorites which have advanced meteoritical science". You could actually argue they are the same thing or you could look at one as a purely data relating one with the other as a more generalised one encompassing everything like Martin's very good argument for including L'Aigle. For me the most "scientifically important meteorites" would include things like Murchison, Allende, Tagish Lake, Krymka, Zagami and Chassigny? (how do you choose between the Planetaries?), D'Orbigny and the other Angrites, Karoonda, Ibitira and other ungrouped achondrites like NWA 011 and pairings. And then other personal biases like NWA 2892 with it's "plastic chondrules" throwing chondrule formation/accretion theories into disarray. Basically anything that further enhances our understanding of the processes behind the formation of our solar system. The other list "the top 10 meteorites which have advanced meteoritical science" might include the meteorites like L'Aigle, Sikhote, Canyon Diablo, Carancas, any meteorites with their orbits calculated, Ensisheim, the first meteorites to peak Harvey Nininger's interest, etc, etc. It would be a long list. That's just my way of looking at it and I'm sure everyone has their own opinion. Very interesting thread though... gets you thinking! Cheers, Jeff ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jason Utas" To: "Meteorite-list" Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 10:08 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 most scientificallyimportant meteorites? Hola All, I would have to respectfully disagree. The original post my Graham asked for a list of ten of "the most important meteorites with regard to science," and he then went on to ask: "Which ones have been the most significant in increasing our understanding of the evolution of our solar system, and what they have taught us?" I believe that the implication of his email was not to ask for a list of meteorites that helped to further our acceptance of meteoritics as a field, but rather to obtain a list of the ten most scientifically interesting meteorites. And, to be perfectly frank, if L'Aigle had been any other type (iron, stony-iron, etc), the outcome of the situation would have been the same. As a meteorite, while it did help to open our eyes as to what was actually out there, it did little to tell us of the history of the formation of the solar system. And Michael's list is more of a list of the most beautiful/interesting meteorites from the point of view of a collector...it's just a different sort of list. Did Esquel or Sylacouga contribute to our knowledge about the early solar system? Not particularly, but they are two of the more desireable meteorites around, for non-scientific reasons. Canyon Diablo is interesting in its own right as a crater-forming meteorite, as it helped us to understand impact dynamics - but as to how that plays into our understanding of the evolution of the solar system...it doesn't, really. Regards, Jason On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at 1:21 PM, Michael Blood wrote: > Hi Jason and all, > First of all, I think it should be mentioned that any such > List is inevitably biased. > Next, that said list cannot possibly "nail" a specific 10 > meteorites. > Assuming these two prospects are accepted, here are 10 > Very respectable meteorites that would certainly merit full > Consideration in comprising such a list ( and at least one "why" > Per each: > > 1) Canyon Diablo: > prototypical and stable iron from what was > recognized as the "only" impact crater for a very long time. It > Can be added that it was also the original site of the Nininger > Museum > > 2) Allende: HUGE strewn field and, at the time, more than > Doubled the total weight of known CR material available. > It was also a witnessed fall with multiple hammer stones > Striking homes and patios > > 3) Esquel: "The queen of the Pallasites" with fantastic color, > Translucency, freedom from rust and in quantities large enough > To allow any collector to have one of the few stable Pallasites. > > 4) Murchison: Providing most of the amino acids that comprise the > "building blocks" of life, perhaps the most "studied" of any meteorite > Ever and a major contributor to the angiosperm hypothesis. Again, > a witnessed fall and a hammer. > > 5) Portalas Valley: Perhaps a surprise in many lists, this specimen has > A unique physiology. Also a hammer. > > 6) Weston: The first scientifically recognized meteorite in "the new > world." > Also a hammer. > > 7. L'Aigle: see below. (Also, there will be a forthcoming article on the > Status of L'Aigle as a hammer). > > 8) Ensischeim: "The meteorite from hell." (also a hammer if you care to > consider a church courtyard a man made artifact). This is one of the > richest > events ever in the "lore" of meteorites. > > 9) Sikhote-Aline: producing thousands of what are pretty much agreed to be > the world's most visually impressive iron individuals. Also a rare Iron > witnessed fall. > > 10) Sylacauga: the only fully documented human striking meteorite. > > I could easily add several more, but these are just my 2 cents > worth, anyway. I am likely wrong, as my wife repeatedly assures me > I am. > Best wishes, Michael > > > On 2/14/09 4:59 AM, "Martin Altmann" wrote: > >> Hi Jason, >> >> Even though we're living in a fast world and the "modernism" of our days >> may >> give the impression, that new scientific recoveries are drawn out of the >> nothing. >> But science and ideas are always integrated in traditions and contexts >> and >> are built on earlier steps. >> Chladni hadn't invented the idea, that the stones may stem from outside. >> He connected the idea that they come from space with the fireballs, the >> existing stones and reports about the falls and postulated additionally, >> that they could survive the atmospheric travel. >> That approach was ridiculous for his contemporary scientists. >> After the period of "enlightment" it was impossible that chunks fall from >> sky, Newton required empty spaces between the planets or at it best, >> cause >> they were Aristotelians, they had to be atmospheric products. >> (Although Tycho had measured long before the parallaxes of comets, to >> find >> out that they move indeed in space). >> >> So Chladni's weird theory never would have been accepted, if there >> wouldn't >> have happened that proof, the mighty shower of L'Aigle, conveniently >> close >> to the Acad?mie de sciences. >> >> Therefore L'Aigle is for me a benchmark. Without L'Aigle no Chladni, no >> Schreibers, no Daubr?e...no modern meteoritics. (At least not to the >> advanced stage we have today). >> >> Shhht Jason, btw. Chladni isn't that much known as Father of meteoritics, >> but for his "Acoustics", he certainly is partially responsible for the >> gig >> tootling out from your speakers, while you're writing to the list :-) >> >> Sure it's only an ordinary chondrite, but you don't meet the meaning of >> this >> milestone, if you look with today's eyes on it. >> >>> It's an ordinary chondrite, of which there are thousands >> >> Which gives in fact to that class an especially high scientific >> importance, >> doesn't it? The chondrites conserved the most original information about >> the >> origin of our solar system, the processes who lead to the formation of >> planets and they resemble much more the stuff we are all made from, than >> any >> differentiated meteorite, which tells us rather the history and >> development >> of his individual parent body. And ready we aren't yet with the >> chondrites. >> Ho many theories of chondrules genesis we have at present? Eleven? >> Look the recent decade, the discovery of protoplanetary discs around >> other >> stars..... and so on. >> Only because they are so readily available to the collectors and despite >> the >> antartcic ones so cheap like never before (yes Mrs.Caroline Smith. >> Fletcher, >> Hey, check the museum's archives, had to pay much more than you), >> they shouldn't be disregarded. >> >> Hey, and confess Jason! The sight of something like that >> http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/36.956g.jpg >> doesn't it made your mouth water? >> >> >> Well, each warehouse telescope for 30 bucks is better than that, which >> Galilei pointed to the Moon or Jupiter. But what for an importance it >> had! >> Would we have a Hubble Space telescope now, without that use of the lousy >> lense 400 years ago? (Although maybe Galileo's or Copernicus' role is >> maybe >> sometimes somewhat overrated, media stars... Copernicus' system was in >> practise inoperative and he had his Islamic and antique antecessors - I'm >> a >> fan of Tycho, which was much more important for modern astronomy and our >> view of the world, as he was the first, who trumped the Islamic >> astronomy. >> Without the results of his large-scale instruments, no Kepler, no Newton, >> no >> Oberth, no Rovers on Mars, no security that the pieces in the Chladni >> Boxes >> really originated from the red planet...). >> Of course it's never a continuously direct and mono-causal development... >> Chance and accident are also factors. >> Allende and Murchison e.g. never would rank in the importance among the >> first places, if they hadn't such large tkws or if they had fallen in the >> oceans and if there the Moon labs weren't just ready, when they felt. >> >> But in general L'Aigle was the proof. >> Scientifically important, because with that fall, the concept of >> meteorites >> had to be accepted and the branch of this science was born at all. >> >> So it's my number one - only in my personal opinion of course. >> >> If we follow your criteria, Jason, everything but the very new had to be >> ruled out and most probably we would have to make a ranking of the so far >> unique - the ungrouped and similar exotics, where we don't have fully the >> clues, what exactly it could be. >> >> Off now, have to jump into my carriage without horses. >> (Hmmm was that important? Quite an unacceptable junk... >> http://kuerzer.de/unimport >> and we certainly would prefer a Lamborghini :-) >> >> Best! >> Martin >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- >> Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com >> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Jason >> Utas >> Gesendet: Samstag, 14. Februar 2009 02:21 >> An: Meteorite-list >> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 most >> scientificallyimportantmeteorites? >> >> Hola Martin, >> I would have to disagree - when you go that far back, you wind up >> dealing with meteorites that are of historic, rather than scientific >> interest. L'Aigle may be something of an exception because it did >> lead to the *scientific* acceptance of meteorites, but, from today's >> scientific perspective, I wouldn't call it very important, never mind >> giving it a place in the top ten. It's an ordinary chondrite, of >> which there are thousands - it's no more special than, say, Tenham or >> Gao - from a purely scientific point of view. >> One might as well call the earliest fossils found the most important, >> simply because they were found back in the day and led to our >> recognition of what they really represented...while they may be >> important, I would hesitate to call them extremely important from a >> scientific point of view. >> Regards, >> Jason >> >> On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 5:12 PM, Martin Altmann >> wrote: >>> I choose L'Aigle as N?1. >>> >>> Cause else they wouldn't have recognized, that Chladni was right and >>> that >>> they are from space. >>> >>> Best! >>> Martin >>> >>> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- >>> Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com >>> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von >>> ensoramanda at ntlworld.com >>> Gesendet: Samstag, 14. Februar 2009 00:55 >>> An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> Betreff: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 most scientifically >>> importantmeteorites? >>> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> Just thought it might be interesting to discover list members opinions >>> on >>> what they would choose as the most important meteorites with regard to >>> science? Which ones have been the most significant in increasing our >>> understanding of the evolution of our solar system, and what they have >>> taught us? >>> >>> Graham Ensor, UK. >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From grf2 at verizon.net Sat Feb 14 20:02:32 2009 From: grf2 at verizon.net (Jerry Flaherty) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 20:02:32 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - February 14, 2009 References: <23417471.692591234614861395.JavaMail.root@mbs5.homesteadmail.com> Message-ID: <7F1316E3739D49E4A6B4AA97F8F486F9@ASUS> Nice teamwork, Geoff and Michael. Most "goodest" and appropriate! Much appreciated by both Dawn and I. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Johnson" To: "Meteorite List" Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 7:34 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - February 14,2009 > http://www.rocksfromspace.org/February_14_2009.html > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com Sat Feb 14 20:41:49 2009 From: rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com (Rob McCafferty) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 17:41:49 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 most scientificallyimportant meteorites? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <688745.88768.qm@web55203.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Many people have put a lot of thought into this question. I can't promise to provide 10 but I do have a few suggestions Ensischeim must top the list as being the first undisputed from outer space. Canyon Diablo for it's influence in the acceptance that cataclysmic impacts can occur on earth Murchison and Allende arrived, by serendipity, just as the facilities to study them came on line and helped advance the study of meteorites and how it's done tremendously, I believe. ALH81005, being the first confirmed lunar meteorite demonstrated that rocks can make their way to earth from another major body. EETA79001 and ALH77005 the study of which provided the evidence leading to the belief that SNC meteorites came from Mars (Bogard and Johnson 1983). That's only 8 but as far as science goes, I think they're important. As for our understanding of how the solar system formed...well, I'm pretty sure they add something. Other meteorites will be considered to contribute more but at this time, the 30,000+ samples collected must be considered as a whole. The distribution of their types tells us a lot but it must also be remembered that our meteorite record is heavily skewed to recent events and current orbital dynamics. We must consider that the balance of meteorite types may have been different in the past and may also be different in the future. We simply do not know enough to be able to tell exactly how the solar system formed from the samples we have now but we do have enough to hazard an educated guess. Rob McC Then of course, there's ALH84001. Whatever your opinion of this meteorite, its contribution to the drive behind solving the "are we alone?" question cannot be denied. --- On Sat, 2/14/09, Jeff Kuyken wrote: > From: Jeff Kuyken > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 most scientificallyimportant meteorites? > To: "Jason Utas" , "Meteorite-list" > Date: Saturday, February 14, 2009, 11:57 PM > I would have to agree with where you're coming from > Jason. I think you would need to make a number of Top 10 > lists for different reasons. Along with "the top 10 > most scientifically important meteorites" you might > also have "the top 10 meteorites which have advanced > meteoritical science". You could actually argue they > are the same thing or you could look at one as a purely data > relating one with the other as a more generalised one > encompassing everything like Martin's very good argument > for including L'Aigle. > > For me the most "scientifically important > meteorites" would include things like Murchison, > Allende, Tagish Lake, Krymka, Zagami and Chassigny? (how do > you choose between the Planetaries?), D'Orbigny and the > other Angrites, Karoonda, Ibitira and other ungrouped > achondrites like NWA 011 and pairings. And then other > personal biases like NWA 2892 with it's "plastic > chondrules" throwing chondrule formation/accretion > theories into disarray. Basically anything that further > enhances our understanding of the processes behind the > formation of our solar system. > > The other list "the top 10 meteorites which have > advanced meteoritical science" might include the > meteorites like L'Aigle, Sikhote, Canyon Diablo, > Carancas, any meteorites with their orbits calculated, > Ensisheim, the first meteorites to peak Harvey > Nininger's interest, etc, etc. It would be a long list. > > That's just my way of looking at it and I'm sure > everyone has their own opinion. Very interesting thread > though... gets you thinking! > > Cheers, > > Jeff > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jason Utas" > > To: "Meteorite-list" > > Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 10:08 AM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 most > scientificallyimportant meteorites? > > > Hola All, > I would have to respectfully disagree. The original post > my Graham > asked for a list of ten of "the most important > meteorites with regard > to science," and he then went on to ask: "Which > ones have been the > most significant in increasing our understanding of the > evolution of > our solar system, and what they have taught us?" > I believe that the implication of his email was not to ask > for a list > of meteorites that helped to further our acceptance of > meteoritics as > a field, but rather to obtain a list of the ten most > scientifically > interesting meteorites. And, to be perfectly frank, if > L'Aigle had > been any other type (iron, stony-iron, etc), the outcome of > the > situation would have been the same. As a meteorite, while > it did help > to open our eyes as to what was actually out there, it did > little to > tell us of the history of the formation of the solar > system. > And Michael's list is more of a list of the most > beautiful/interesting > meteorites from the point of view of a collector...it's > just a > different sort of list. Did Esquel or Sylacouga contribute > to our > knowledge about the early solar system? Not particularly, > but they > are two of the more desireable meteorites around, for > non-scientific > reasons. Canyon Diablo is interesting in its own right as > a > crater-forming meteorite, as it helped us to understand > impact > dynamics - but as to how that plays into our understanding > of the > evolution of the solar system...it doesn't, really. > Regards, > Jason > > > On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at 1:21 PM, Michael Blood > wrote: > > Hi Jason and all, > > First of all, I think it should be mentioned > that any such > > List is inevitably biased. > > Next, that said list cannot possibly > "nail" a specific 10 > > meteorites. > > Assuming these two prospects are accepted, here > are 10 > > Very respectable meteorites that would certainly merit > full > > Consideration in comprising such a list ( and at least > one "why" > > Per each: > > > > 1) Canyon Diablo: > > prototypical and stable iron from what was > > recognized as the "only" impact crater for a > very long time. It > > Can be added that it was also the original site of the > Nininger > > Museum > > > > 2) Allende: HUGE strewn field and, at the time, more > than > > Doubled the total weight of known CR material > available. > > It was also a witnessed fall with multiple hammer > stones > > Striking homes and patios > > > > 3) Esquel: "The queen of the Pallasites" > with fantastic color, > > Translucency, freedom from rust and in quantities > large enough > > To allow any collector to have one of the few stable > Pallasites. > > > > 4) Murchison: Providing most of the amino acids that > comprise the > > "building blocks" of life, perhaps the most > "studied" of any meteorite > > Ever and a major contributor to the angiosperm > hypothesis. Again, > > a witnessed fall and a hammer. > > > > 5) Portalas Valley: Perhaps a surprise in many lists, > this specimen has > > A unique physiology. Also a hammer. > > > > 6) Weston: The first scientifically recognized > meteorite in "the new world." > > Also a hammer. > > > > 7. L'Aigle: see below. (Also, there will be a > forthcoming article on the > > Status of L'Aigle as a hammer). > > > > 8) Ensischeim: "The meteorite from hell." > (also a hammer if you care to > > consider a church courtyard a man made artifact). This > is one of the richest > > events ever in the "lore" of meteorites. > > > > 9) Sikhote-Aline: producing thousands of what are > pretty much agreed to be > > the world's most visually impressive iron > individuals. Also a rare Iron > > witnessed fall. > > > > 10) Sylacauga: the only fully documented human > striking meteorite. > > > > I could easily add several more, but these are > just my 2 cents > > worth, anyway. I am likely wrong, as my wife > repeatedly assures me > > I am. > > Best wishes, Michael > > > > > > On 2/14/09 4:59 AM, "Martin Altmann" > wrote: > > > >> Hi Jason, > >> > >> Even though we're living in a fast world and > the "modernism" of our days may > >> give the impression, that new scientific > recoveries are drawn out of the > >> nothing. > >> But science and ideas are always integrated in > traditions and contexts and > >> are built on earlier steps. > >> Chladni hadn't invented the idea, that the > stones may stem from outside. > >> He connected the idea that they come from space > with the fireballs, the > >> existing stones and reports about the falls and > postulated additionally, > >> that they could survive the atmospheric travel. > >> That approach was ridiculous for his contemporary > scientists. > >> After the period of "enlightment" it was > impossible that chunks fall from > >> sky, Newton required empty spaces between the > planets or at it best, cause > >> they were Aristotelians, they had to be > atmospheric products. > >> (Although Tycho had measured long before the > parallaxes of comets, to find > >> out that they move indeed in space). > >> > >> So Chladni's weird theory never would have > been accepted, if there wouldn't > >> have happened that proof, the mighty shower of > L'Aigle, conveniently close > >> to the Acad?mie de sciences. > >> > >> Therefore L'Aigle is for me a benchmark. > Without L'Aigle no Chladni, no > >> Schreibers, no Daubr?e...no modern meteoritics. > (At least not to the > >> advanced stage we have today). > >> > >> Shhht Jason, btw. Chladni isn't that much > known as Father of meteoritics, > >> but for his "Acoustics", he certainly is > partially responsible for the gig > >> tootling out from your speakers, while you're > writing to the list :-) > >> > >> Sure it's only an ordinary chondrite, but you > don't meet the meaning of this > >> milestone, if you look with today's eyes on > it. > >> > >>> It's an ordinary chondrite, of which there > are thousands > >> > >> Which gives in fact to that class an especially > high scientific importance, > >> doesn't it? The chondrites conserved the most > original information about the > >> origin of our solar system, the processes who lead > to the formation of > >> planets and they resemble much more the stuff we > are all made from, than any > >> differentiated meteorite, which tells us rather > the history and development > >> of his individual parent body. And ready we > aren't yet with the chondrites. > >> Ho many theories of chondrules genesis we have at > present? Eleven? > >> Look the recent decade, the discovery of > protoplanetary discs around other > >> stars..... and so on. > >> Only because they are so readily available to the > collectors and despite the > >> antartcic ones so cheap like never before (yes > Mrs.Caroline Smith. Fletcher, > >> Hey, check the museum's archives, had to pay > much more than you), > >> they shouldn't be disregarded. > >> > >> Hey, and confess Jason! The sight of something > like that > >> http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/36.956g.jpg > >> doesn't it made your mouth water? > >> > >> > >> Well, each warehouse telescope for 30 bucks is > better than that, which > >> Galilei pointed to the Moon or Jupiter. But what > for an importance it had! > >> Would we have a Hubble Space telescope now, > without that use of the lousy > >> lense 400 years ago? (Although maybe > Galileo's or Copernicus' role is maybe > >> sometimes somewhat overrated, media stars... > Copernicus' system was in > >> practise inoperative and he had his Islamic and > antique antecessors - I'm a > >> fan of Tycho, which was much more important for > modern astronomy and our > >> view of the world, as he was the first, who > trumped the Islamic astronomy. > >> Without the results of his large-scale > instruments, no Kepler, no Newton, no > >> Oberth, no Rovers on Mars, no security that the > pieces in the Chladni Boxes > >> really originated from the red planet...). > >> Of course it's never a continuously direct and > mono-causal development... > >> Chance and accident are also factors. > >> Allende and Murchison e.g. never would rank in the > importance among the > >> first places, if they hadn't such large tkws > or if they had fallen in the > >> oceans and if there the Moon labs weren't just > ready, when they felt. > >> > >> But in general L'Aigle was the proof. > >> Scientifically important, because with that fall, > the concept of meteorites > >> had to be accepted and the branch of this science > was born at all. > >> > >> So it's my number one - only in my personal > opinion of course. > >> > >> If we follow your criteria, Jason, everything but > the very new had to be > >> ruled out and most probably we would have to make > a ranking of the so far > >> unique - the ungrouped and similar exotics, where > we don't have fully the > >> clues, what exactly it could be. > >> > >> Off now, have to jump into my carriage without > horses. > >> (Hmmm was that important? Quite an unacceptable > junk... > >> http://kuerzer.de/unimport > >> and we certainly would prefer a Lamborghini :-) > >> > >> Best! > >> Martin > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > >> Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > >> > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im > Auftrag von Jason > >> Utas > >> Gesendet: Samstag, 14. Februar 2009 02:21 > >> An: Meteorite-list > >> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 > most > >> scientificallyimportantmeteorites? > >> > >> Hola Martin, > >> I would have to disagree - when you go that far > back, you wind up > >> dealing with meteorites that are of historic, > rather than scientific > >> interest. L'Aigle may be something of an > exception because it did > >> lead to the *scientific* acceptance of meteorites, > but, from today's > >> scientific perspective, I wouldn't call it > very important, never mind > >> giving it a place in the top ten. It's an > ordinary chondrite, of > >> which there are thousands - it's no more > special than, say, Tenham or > >> Gao - from a purely scientific point of view. > >> One might as well call the earliest fossils found > the most important, > >> simply because they were found back in the day and > led to our > >> recognition of what they really > represented...while they may be > >> important, I would hesitate to call them extremely > important from a > >> scientific point of view. > >> Regards, > >> Jason > >> > >> On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 5:12 PM, Martin Altmann > >> wrote: > >>> I choose L'Aigle as N?1. > >>> > >>> Cause else they wouldn't have recognized, > that Chladni was right and that > >>> they are from space. > >>> > >>> Best! > >>> Martin > >>> > >>> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > >>> Von: > meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > >>> > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im > Auftrag von > >>> ensoramanda at ntlworld.com > >>> Gesendet: Samstag, 14. Februar 2009 00:55 > >>> An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >>> Betreff: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 > most scientifically > >>> importantmeteorites? > >>> > >>> Hi all, > >>> > >>> Just thought it might be interesting to > discover list members opinions on > >>> what they would choose as the most important > meteorites with regard to > >>> science? Which ones have been the most > significant in increasing our > >>> understanding of the evolution of our solar > system, and what they have > >>> taught us? > >>> > >>> Graham Ensor, UK. > >>> ______________________________________________ > >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com > >>> Meteorite-list mailing list > >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >>> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > >>> > >>> ______________________________________________ > >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com > >>> Meteorite-list mailing list > >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >>> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > >>> > >> ______________________________________________ > >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com > >> Meteorite-list mailing list > >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > >> > >> ______________________________________________ > >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com > >> Meteorite-list mailing list > >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From waltbranch at bellsouth.net Sat Feb 14 20:46:50 2009 From: waltbranch at bellsouth.net (Walter Branch) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 20:46:50 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 mostscientificallyimportant meteorites? References: <002c01c98ea4$049b5800$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2><93aaac890902141508x3a671c13k1b972f8a36c1eabc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <62B7B5E788224FE2BDFBD73A81FA5A8C@Walter> Hello Everyone, This is actually a very good question. Thanks Graham. I have often thought about this. I have deliberately refrained from chiming in until now. Why? Because at the moment I am home alone and have nothing better to do with my time. I would like the meteoriticists on the list to give their opinion. Seems natural, since Graham inquired about the most important meteorites from a scientifice point-of-view. As a meteorite collector and not a meteorite researcher, I have my own opinion but who cares about my opinion? Okay, well maybe one person does so I would list (in no particular order) Murchison, Allende, all the Lunars and Martian s equally, etc. Well, that's not 10, is it? BTW, Carancas would not make my personal list but again, who cares? (That is a rhetoricalquestion, BTW) Getting back to my original point, before this thread dies, I would like to to hear from the Jeff Grossman, Everett Gibson and Allan Treiman's of the list (I really do not like listing names because I invariablly leave some deserving person out). BTW, I saw Everett Gibson on that History Channel documentary about Tunguska a few nights ago. Everett looks like he would be equally adept at the hands of a BBQ as he would an SEM :-) Don't get me wrong - I mean no disrespect to Dr. Gibeon. I happen to love BBQs! And while I am at it. I owe Donald Yoeman's and JPL an apology. A year or two ago I sort of denigrated JPL for it's lack meteorite research. I had forgotten that Dr. Yoeman's (and other's) are at JPL. My belated apologies. Without making this post too long (I know, too late). How about it? What do the scientists think are the most scientifically important meteorites? -Walter Branch From ensoramanda at ntlworld.com Sat Feb 14 21:26:07 2009 From: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com (ensoramanda at ntlworld.com) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 2:26:07 +0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 mostscientificallyimportant meteorites? In-Reply-To: <62B7B5E788224FE2BDFBD73A81FA5A8C@Walter> Message-ID: <20090215022607.AIKQ8.409989.root@web07-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com> Hi Walter, Jason and all, I am glad this thread has continued with some very interesting nominations, however Jason is right...it is much easier to put together a list of favourite meteorites for 'collectors', but as Walter said, we have often wondered about what specific advances in our understanding of our solar system have come from meteoritics. Hence the question, which I was hoping might bring some specific examples from a few of the scientists studying specific meteorites....or a summary with useful links to relevant papers. Graham ---- Walter Branch wrote: > Hello Everyone, > > This is actually a very good question. Thanks Graham. I have often thought > about this. I have deliberately refrained from chiming in until now. Why? > Because at the moment I am home alone and have nothing better to do with my > time. > > I would like the meteoriticists on the list to give their opinion. Seems > natural, since Graham inquired about the most important meteorites from a > scientifice point-of-view. > > As a meteorite collector and not a meteorite researcher, I have my own > opinion but who cares about my opinion? Okay, well maybe one person does so > I would list (in no particular order) Murchison, Allende, all the Lunars and > Martian s equally, etc. > > Well, that's not 10, is it? > > BTW, Carancas would not make my personal list but again, who cares? (That > is a rhetoricalquestion, BTW) > > Getting back to my original point, before this thread dies, I would like to > to hear from the Jeff Grossman, Everett Gibson and Allan Treiman's of the > list (I really do not like listing names because I invariablly leave some > deserving person out). > > BTW, I saw Everett Gibson on that History Channel documentary about Tunguska > a few nights ago. Everett looks like he would be equally adept at the > hands of a BBQ as he would an SEM :-) > > Don't get me wrong - I mean no disrespect to Dr. Gibeon. I happen to love > BBQs! > > And while I am at it. I owe Donald Yoeman's and JPL an apology. A year or > two ago I sort of denigrated JPL for it's lack meteorite research. I had > forgotten that Dr. Yoeman's (and other's) are at JPL. My belated apologies. > > Without making this post too long (I know, too late). How about it? What > do the scientists think are the most scientifically important meteorites? > > -Walter Branch > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com Sat Feb 14 21:43:24 2009 From: michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com (Michael Gilmer) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 18:43:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD : Micromount Madness - Micros from $5 and up. Message-ID: <129637.41681.qm@web58408.mail.re3.yahoo.com> This ad is for all of the low-budget collectors out there. :) I have a specimen cabinet full of small specimens of 66+ finds and falls - 30+ of these are available for sale or trade. Below is a list of the micromounts I have available. Prices are listed with each. There are too many to individually photograph and weigh, so if you are interested in a particular micromount, please contact me offlist to arrange for a photo and/or weight. Some of the falls or finds that are scarce will be smaller (bigger than a "Bessey Speck", but still quite small), and the more common types are larger (around 1 gram, some a little bigger). Each micromount comes with a 1.25" gemjar with an identification label in the bottom. Shipping for any CONUS order, regardless of size, is a flat $2. Shipping for any Canadian or Overseas order is a flat $5. Minimum order is $10. PayPal preferred, and PayPal only for non-CONUS orders. To order inquire, contact me offlist at - mike at galactic-stone.com ... And now for something completely different..... GALACTIC STONE'S FLYING MICROMOUNT CIRCUS : ------------------------------------------- Carancas (H4-5 chondrite, witnessed fall, hammer) -----> $7 each. Cape York (iron shale) -----> $7 each. Chergach (H5 chondrite, witnessed fall, hammer) -----> $5 each. Dawn(a) (H6 chondrite) -----> $5 each. Forestburg(a) (L4 chondrite) -----> $5 each. Gao-Guenie (H5 chondrite, witnessed fall, hammer) -----> $5 each. Gold Basin (L4 chondrite) -----> $5 each. Henbury (iron octahedrite) -----> $5 each. Holbrook (L-type chondrite, witnessed fall, hammer) -----> $5 each. Indochinite (Tektite, Asia) -----> $5 each. Libyan Desert Glass (impactite/tektite) -----> $5 each. Mars Rock (NWA 4925) - (Martian Origin Meteorite) -----> $35 each. Moon Rock (NWA 4881) (Lunar-origin Meteorite) -----> $35 each. Muonionalusta (iron octahedrite, shale fragments) -----> $5 each. Nantan (iron octahedrite, shattered crystals) -----> $5 each. Norton County (aubrite, witnessed fall) -----> $7 NWA 515 (L6 chondrite) -----> $5 each. NWA 1877 (olivine diogenite) -----> $7 each. NWA 2828 (EL chondrite) -----> $5 each. NWA 2634 (ureilite) -----> $7 each. NWA 2778 (H4 chondrite) -----> $5 each. NWA 2828 (EL3 chondrite) -----> $5 each. NWA 3117 (howardite) -----> $7 each. NWA 4295 (EL6/7 chondrite) -----> $5 each. NWA 4439 (carbonaceous chondrite CO3.3) -----> $7 each. NWA 5054 (L5 chondrite) -----> $5 each. Pallasovka (pallasite) -----> $5 each. Tamdakht/Tishka (witnessed fall, undergoing classification) -----> $7 each. Tatahouine (diogenite, witnessed fall) -----> $7 each. Travis County (b) (H4 chondrite) -----> $5 each. Tulia(a) (H3-4 chondrite) -----> $5 each. Tulia(b) (L6 chondrite) -----> $5 each. UNWA XXXX (unclassified Saharan meteorite) -----> $5 each. Zag (H3-6 chondrite, witnessed fall) -----> $5 each. ------------------------------------------------------------ I also have a large quantity of 1.25" gemjars with white foam - brand new, still in the factory packaging. 36 jars to a lot, $11 shipped each. Thanks for looking and clear skies! MikeG ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From John at Cabassi.net Sat Feb 14 21:53:11 2009 From: John at Cabassi.net (John.L.Cabassi) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 18:53:11 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 most scientifically importantmeteorites? References: <20090213235529.3YE52.433248.root@web08-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com> Message-ID: <00b701c98f18$8d2689f0$4564fea9@TITAN> G'Day List This has been a really great topic. Thanks Graham. But without going into the top 10, I think personally that Murchison tops my list scientifically. Not to argue with anybody else's opinion, I just find this substantially unique with the research that has been done on it. And to me, stands alone. Cheers John ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 3:55 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 most scientifically importantmeteorites? > Hi all, > > Just thought it might be interesting to discover list members opinions on > what they would choose as the most important meteorites with regard to > science? Which ones have been the most significant in increasing our > understanding of the evolution of our solar system, and what they have > taught us? > > Graham Ensor, UK. > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Sat Feb 14 22:03:37 2009 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 21:03:37 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 most scientificallyimportant meteorites? References: <002c01c98ea4$049b5800$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> <93aaac890902141508x3a671c13k1b972f8a36c1eabc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <010301c98f1a$00032ea0$6151e146@ATARIENGINE> Dear Jason, List, > Canyon Diablo... helped us to understand impact dynamics > but as to how that plays into our understanding of the > evolution of the solar system...it doesn't, really. Prior to the assertion that Meteor Crater was an impact feature, the concept of "impact" as a possible event was nil, non-existent, and when proposed was widely denied, pooh-pooh'ed -- an affront to the orderly and rational natural world. Barringer conceived of the crater as what we would call a particularly large impact pit, not an explosive crater, but the evidence drew him that way. Nininger was really the first to understand the possibility of impact as a geological process (without understanding the scale on which it was possible) and that understanding led straight to the late Gene Shoemaker, who single-handedly pushed a planet full of resistant scientists into the realization by patiently rubbing their noses in it for decades. Shoemaker's 1960 paper ending the 70-year dispute about the origin of Meteor Crater caused a sensation in geology, as it was the first definitive proof of an extraterrestrial impact on the Earth's surface. This was the first crater "proved" to be of impact origin. Proving that impact was a fundamental geological process would take decades longer. Paradigms don't always shift quickly. In the 1950's, the only cratered body known to science was the Moon, so presumably craters were an odd or unique feature in the Solar System, an individual characteristic of the Moon, not of planetary bodies generally. It was virtually universally understood that the 1000's of craters that covered the Moon were volcanic features. Our exploration of the Moon was substantially biased toward finding (mostly non-existent) evidence of volcanic activity. Even the first photos of craters on Mars in 1965 by Mariner 4 did not budge that mindset much. This was one of those you-had-to-be-there moments -- the shock and disbelief caused by craters on Mars (and the quivers of denial that followed) was profound, like being hit between the eyes with a two-by-four. Well, they were probably volcanic craters anyway... The 1970's competed the change of paradigm and the fact of impact as a geological process (the title of the book that nailed it down firmly). That almost every body in the Solar System with a solid surface is cratered is now a Ho Hum fact. The reason that you, Jason, can think it's not important is because you are on the "modern" side of the conceptual divide. Until the understanding of impact, solar system formation models were divided between "accretion" and "coalescence." Very few people still believe planets formed like a dew drop any more. The change in formation theory walks hand-in-hand with impact theory. If Canyon Diablo was the catalyst for the recognition of impact processes in the Solar System -- and I think it was -- then it might well be the "most significant in increasing our understanding of the evolution of our solar system." Sterling K. Webb ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jason Utas" To: "Meteorite-list" Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 5:08 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 most scientificallyimportant meteorites? Hola All, I would have to respectfully disagree. The original post my Graham asked for a list of ten of "the most important meteorites with regard to science," and he then went on to ask: "Which ones have been the most significant in increasing our understanding of the evolution of our solar system, and what they have taught us?" I believe that the implication of his email was not to ask for a list of meteorites that helped to further our acceptance of meteoritics as a field, but rather to obtain a list of the ten most scientifically interesting meteorites. And, to be perfectly frank, if L'Aigle had been any other type (iron, stony-iron, etc), the outcome of the situation would have been the same. As a meteorite, while it did help to open our eyes as to what was actually out there, it did little to tell us of the history of the formation of the solar system. And Michael's list is more of a list of the most beautiful/interesting meteorites from the point of view of a collector...it's just a different sort of list. Did Esquel or Sylacouga contribute to our knowledge about the early solar system? Not particularly, but they are two of the more desireable meteorites around, for non-scientific reasons. Canyon Diablo is interesting in its own right as a crater-forming meteorite, as it helped us to understand impact dynamics - but as to how that plays into our understanding of the evolution of the solar system...it doesn't, really. Regards, Jason On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at 1:21 PM, Michael Blood wrote: > Hi Jason and all, > First of all, I think it should be mentioned that any such > List is inevitably biased. > Next, that said list cannot possibly "nail" a specific 10 > meteorites. > Assuming these two prospects are accepted, here are 10 > Very respectable meteorites that would certainly merit full > Consideration in comprising such a list ( and at least one "why" > Per each: > > 1) Canyon Diablo: > prototypical and stable iron from what was > recognized as the "only" impact crater for a very long time. It > Can be added that it was also the original site of the Nininger > Museum > > 2) Allende: HUGE strewn field and, at the time, more than > Doubled the total weight of known CR material available. > It was also a witnessed fall with multiple hammer stones > Striking homes and patios > > 3) Esquel: "The queen of the Pallasites" with fantastic color, > Translucency, freedom from rust and in quantities large enough > To allow any collector to have one of the few stable Pallasites. > > 4) Murchison: Providing most of the amino acids that comprise the > "building blocks" of life, perhaps the most "studied" of any meteorite > Ever and a major contributor to the angiosperm hypothesis. Again, > a witnessed fall and a hammer. > > 5) Portalas Valley: Perhaps a surprise in many lists, this specimen has > A unique physiology. Also a hammer. > > 6) Weston: The first scientifically recognized meteorite in "the new > world." > Also a hammer. > > 7. L'Aigle: see below. (Also, there will be a forthcoming article on the > Status of L'Aigle as a hammer). > > 8) Ensischeim: "The meteorite from hell." (also a hammer if you care to > consider a church courtyard a man made artifact). This is one of the > richest > events ever in the "lore" of meteorites. > > 9) Sikhote-Aline: producing thousands of what are pretty much agreed to be > the world's most visually impressive iron individuals. Also a rare Iron > witnessed fall. > > 10) Sylacauga: the only fully documented human striking meteorite. > > I could easily add several more, but these are just my 2 cents > worth, anyway. I am likely wrong, as my wife repeatedly assures me > I am. > Best wishes, Michael > > > On 2/14/09 4:59 AM, "Martin Altmann" wrote: > >> Hi Jason, >> >> Even though we're living in a fast world and the "modernism" of our days >> may >> give the impression, that new scientific recoveries are drawn out of the >> nothing. >> But science and ideas are always integrated in traditions and contexts >> and >> are built on earlier steps. >> Chladni hadn't invented the idea, that the stones may stem from outside. >> He connected the idea that they come from space with the fireballs, the >> existing stones and reports about the falls and postulated additionally, >> that they could survive the atmospheric travel. >> That approach was ridiculous for his contemporary scientists. >> After the period of "enlightment" it was impossible that chunks fall from >> sky, Newton required empty spaces between the planets or at it best, >> cause >> they were Aristotelians, they had to be atmospheric products. >> (Although Tycho had measured long before the parallaxes of comets, to >> find >> out that they move indeed in space). >> >> So Chladni's weird theory never would have been accepted, if there >> wouldn't >> have happened that proof, the mighty shower of L'Aigle, conveniently >> close >> to the Acad?mie de sciences. >> >> Therefore L'Aigle is for me a benchmark. Without L'Aigle no Chladni, no >> Schreibers, no Daubr?e...no modern meteoritics. (At least not to the >> advanced stage we have today). >> >> Shhht Jason, btw. Chladni isn't that much known as Father of meteoritics, >> but for his "Acoustics", he certainly is partially responsible for the >> gig >> tootling out from your speakers, while you're writing to the list :-) >> >> Sure it's only an ordinary chondrite, but you don't meet the meaning of >> this >> milestone, if you look with today's eyes on it. >> >>> It's an ordinary chondrite, of which there are thousands >> >> Which gives in fact to that class an especially high scientific >> importance, >> doesn't it? The chondrites conserved the most original information about >> the >> origin of our solar system, the processes who lead to the formation of >> planets and they resemble much more the stuff we are all made from, than >> any >> differentiated meteorite, which tells us rather the history and >> development >> of his individual parent body. And ready we aren't yet with the >> chondrites. >> Ho many theories of chondrules genesis we have at present? Eleven? >> Look the recent decade, the discovery of protoplanetary discs around >> other >> stars..... and so on. >> Only because they are so readily available to the collectors and despite >> the >> antartcic ones so cheap like never before (yes Mrs.Caroline Smith. >> Fletcher, >> Hey, check the museum's archives, had to pay much more than you), >> they shouldn't be disregarded. >> >> Hey, and confess Jason! The sight of something like that >> http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/36.956g.jpg >> doesn't it made your mouth water? >> >> >> Well, each warehouse telescope for 30 bucks is better than that, which >> Galilei pointed to the Moon or Jupiter. But what for an importance it >> had! >> Would we have a Hubble Space telescope now, without that use of the lousy >> lense 400 years ago? (Although maybe Galileo's or Copernicus' role is >> maybe >> sometimes somewhat overrated, media stars... Copernicus' system was in >> practise inoperative and he had his Islamic and antique antecessors - I'm >> a >> fan of Tycho, which was much more important for modern astronomy and our >> view of the world, as he was the first, who trumped the Islamic >> astronomy. >> Without the results of his large-scale instruments, no Kepler, no Newton, >> no >> Oberth, no Rovers on Mars, no security that the pieces in the Chladni >> Boxes >> really originated from the red planet...). >> Of course it's never a continuously direct and mono-causal development... >> Chance and accident are also factors. >> Allende and Murchison e.g. never would rank in the importance among the >> first places, if they hadn't such large tkws or if they had fallen in the >> oceans and if there the Moon labs weren't just ready, when they felt. >> >> But in general L'Aigle was the proof. >> Scientifically important, because with that fall, the concept of >> meteorites >> had to be accepted and the branch of this science was born at all. >> >> So it's my number one - only in my personal opinion of course. >> >> If we follow your criteria, Jason, everything but the very new had to be >> ruled out and most probably we would have to make a ranking of the so far >> unique - the ungrouped and similar exotics, where we don't have fully the >> clues, what exactly it could be. >> >> Off now, have to jump into my carriage without horses. >> (Hmmm was that important? Quite an unacceptable junk... >> http://kuerzer.de/unimport >> and we certainly would prefer a Lamborghini :-) >> >> Best! >> Martin >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- >> Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com >> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Jason >> Utas >> Gesendet: Samstag, 14. Februar 2009 02:21 >> An: Meteorite-list >> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 most >> scientificallyimportantmeteorites? >> >> Hola Martin, >> I would have to disagree - when you go that far back, you wind up >> dealing with meteorites that are of historic, rather than scientific >> interest. L'Aigle may be something of an exception because it did >> lead to the *scientific* acceptance of meteorites, but, from today's >> scientific perspective, I wouldn't call it very important, never mind >> giving it a place in the top ten. It's an ordinary chondrite, of >> which there are thousands - it's no more special than, say, Tenham or >> Gao - from a purely scientific point of view. >> One might as well call the earliest fossils found the most important, >> simply because they were found back in the day and led to our >> recognition of what they really represented...while they may be >> important, I would hesitate to call them extremely important from a >> scientific point of view. >> Regards, >> Jason >> >> On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 5:12 PM, Martin Altmann >> wrote: >>> I choose L'Aigle as N?1. >>> >>> Cause else they wouldn't have recognized, that Chladni was right and >>> that >>> they are from space. >>> >>> Best! >>> Martin >>> >>> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- >>> Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com >>> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von >>> ensoramanda at ntlworld.com >>> Gesendet: Samstag, 14. Februar 2009 00:55 >>> An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> Betreff: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 most scientifically >>> importantmeteorites? >>> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> Just thought it might be interesting to discover list members opinions >>> on >>> what they would choose as the most important meteorites with regard to >>> science? Which ones have been the most significant in increasing our >>> understanding of the evolution of our solar system, and what they have >>> taught us? >>> >>> Graham Ensor, UK. >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From John at Cabassi.net Sat Feb 14 22:14:29 2009 From: John at Cabassi.net (John.L.Cabassi) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 19:14:29 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] New Moroccan Fall Message-ID: <00be01c98f1b$8a5f2530$4564fea9@TITAN> G'Day List I noticed there's been alot of information posted in regards to the recent fall in Morocco, Tishka. I will call it that for the time being, knowing quite well it could change and there's alot of alternatives out there. Now I might be blowing a little bit of smoke here, so please don't flame me too hard. But I received a 4.5 gram fragment of Tishka and naturally my first move is I grab my loop and do a quick scan. I don't have the ability to do scientific analysis, but from doing a preliminary check it was like deja-vu. So yes, back to the boxes of my collection and sure enough I found a 3 gram piece of Carancas. I was amazed at the similarities. Now don't get me wrong here, this is just a visual inspection. The Carancas which had a nice area of slickenslide which has been referred to, also appears to be identical on Tishka. And then you have other characteristics and I can list a few more, but I don't possess the scientific knowledge that the members of the list have. But I just found it uncanny that I'm holding Carancas in one hand and Tishka in the other and I just could not tell them apart. Am I just assuming that we have something similar or just grabbing at straws? I would like hear your input . As I said earlier, I might just be blowing smoke, but has anyone else noticed the similarities? Cheers John From dmerchan at rochester.rr.com Sat Feb 14 22:15:42 2009 From: dmerchan at rochester.rr.com (Don Merchant) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 22:15:42 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Auctions ending in less then 24 hours! Message-ID: <000601c98f1b$afb2cf30$6501a8c0@donaldmerchant> Hi list and Happy Valentines Day! I have some auctions ending in less then 24 hours including my last 2 small part slices of Park Forest showing metal flake for those collectors who do not have any of this famous meteorite in their collection. I also have some rare hard to find meteorite stamps as well. Have a great weekend and thank you. http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/emflocater_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZQQ_mdoZ Sincerely Don Merchant IMCA #0960 From rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com Sat Feb 14 22:17:38 2009 From: rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com (Rob McCafferty) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 19:17:38 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 most scientificallyimportant meteorites? In-Reply-To: <010301c98f1a$00032ea0$6151e146@ATARIENGINE> Message-ID: <499515.17765.qm@web55206.mail.re4.yahoo.com> An adept postulate most erudite in its expression. I could not have put it better myself. Rob McC (I'm assuming that anyone not needing a dictionary for the above will realise I'm not being sarcastic) --- On Sun, 2/15/09, Sterling K. Webb wrote: > From: Sterling K. Webb > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 most scientificallyimportant meteorites? > To: "Jason Utas" , "Meteorite-list" > Date: Sunday, February 15, 2009, 3:03 AM > Dear Jason, List, > > > Canyon Diablo... helped us to understand impact > dynamics > > but as to how that plays into our understanding of the > > evolution of the solar system...it doesn't, > really. > > Prior to the assertion that Meteor Crater was an impact > feature, the concept of "impact" as a possible > event was > nil, non-existent, and when proposed was widely denied, > pooh-pooh'ed -- an affront to the orderly and rational > natural world. > > Barringer conceived of the crater as what we would call > a particularly large impact pit, not an explosive crater, > but > the evidence drew him that way. Nininger was really the > first to understand the possibility of impact as a > geological > process (without understanding the scale on which it was > possible) and that understanding led straight to the late > Gene > Shoemaker, who single-handedly pushed a planet full of > resistant scientists into the realization by patiently > rubbing > their noses in it for decades. > > Shoemaker's 1960 paper ending the 70-year dispute about > the origin of Meteor Crater caused a sensation in geology, > as it was the first definitive proof of an extraterrestrial > impact > on the Earth's surface. This was the first crater > "proved" to be > of impact origin. Proving that impact was a fundamental > geological process would take decades longer. Paradigms > don't always shift quickly. > > In the 1950's, the only cratered body known to science > was the Moon, so presumably craters were an odd or > unique feature in the Solar System, an individual > characteristic > of the Moon, not of planetary bodies generally. It was > virtually > universally understood that the 1000's of craters that > covered > the Moon were volcanic features. Our exploration of the > Moon > was substantially biased toward finding (mostly > non-existent) > evidence of volcanic activity. > > Even the first photos of craters on Mars in 1965 by Mariner > 4 > did not budge that mindset much. This was one of those > you-had-to-be-there moments -- the shock and disbelief > caused > by craters on Mars (and the quivers of denial that > followed) > was profound, like being hit between the eyes with a > two-by-four. > Well, they were probably volcanic craters anyway... > > The 1970's competed the change of paradigm and the fact > of > impact as a geological process (the title of the book that > nailed it > down firmly). That almost every body in the Solar System > with a solid surface is cratered is now a Ho Hum fact. The > reason that you, Jason, can think it's not important is > because > you are on the "modern" side of the conceptual > divide. Until > the understanding of impact, solar system formation models > were divided between "accretion" and > "coalescence." Very > few people still believe planets formed like a dew drop any > more. The change in formation theory walks hand-in-hand > with impact theory. > > If Canyon Diablo was the catalyst for the recognition of > impact processes in the Solar System -- and I think it was > -- > then it might well be the "most significant in > increasing our > understanding of the evolution of our solar system." > > > Sterling K. Webb > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jason Utas" > To: "Meteorite-list" > > Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 5:08 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 most > scientificallyimportant meteorites? > > > Hola All, > I would have to respectfully disagree. The original post > my Graham > asked for a list of ten of "the most important > meteorites with regard > to science," and he then went on to ask: "Which > ones have been the > most significant in increasing our understanding of the > evolution of > our solar system, and what they have taught us?" > I believe that the implication of his email was not to ask > for a list > of meteorites that helped to further our acceptance of > meteoritics as > a field, but rather to obtain a list of the ten most > scientifically > interesting meteorites. And, to be perfectly frank, if > L'Aigle had > been any other type (iron, stony-iron, etc), the outcome of > the > situation would have been the same. As a meteorite, while > it did help > to open our eyes as to what was actually out there, it did > little to > tell us of the history of the formation of the solar > system. > And Michael's list is more of a list of the most > beautiful/interesting > meteorites from the point of view of a collector...it's > just a > different sort of list. Did Esquel or Sylacouga contribute > to our > knowledge about the early solar system? Not particularly, > but they > are two of the more desireable meteorites around, for > non-scientific > reasons. Canyon Diablo is interesting in its own right as > a > crater-forming meteorite, as it helped us to understand > impact > dynamics - but as to how that plays into our understanding > of the > evolution of the solar system...it doesn't, really. > Regards, > Jason > > > On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at 1:21 PM, Michael Blood > wrote: > > Hi Jason and all, > > First of all, I think it should be mentioned > that any such > > List is inevitably biased. > > Next, that said list cannot possibly > "nail" a specific 10 > > meteorites. > > Assuming these two prospects are accepted, here > are 10 > > Very respectable meteorites that would certainly merit > full > > Consideration in comprising such a list ( and at least > one "why" > > Per each: > > > > 1) Canyon Diablo: > > prototypical and stable iron from what was > > recognized as the "only" impact crater for a > very long time. It > > Can be added that it was also the original site of the > Nininger > > Museum > > > > 2) Allende: HUGE strewn field and, at the time, more > than > > Doubled the total weight of known CR material > available. > > It was also a witnessed fall with multiple hammer > stones > > Striking homes and patios > > > > 3) Esquel: "The queen of the Pallasites" > with fantastic color, > > Translucency, freedom from rust and in quantities > large enough > > To allow any collector to have one of the few stable > Pallasites. > > > > 4) Murchison: Providing most of the amino acids that > comprise the > > "building blocks" of life, perhaps the most > "studied" of any meteorite > > Ever and a major contributor to the angiosperm > hypothesis. Again, > > a witnessed fall and a hammer. > > > > 5) Portalas Valley: Perhaps a surprise in many lists, > this specimen has > > A unique physiology. Also a hammer. > > > > 6) Weston: The first scientifically recognized > meteorite in "the new > > world." > > Also a hammer. > > > > 7. L'Aigle: see below. (Also, there will be a > forthcoming article on the > > Status of L'Aigle as a hammer). > > > > 8) Ensischeim: "The meteorite from hell." > (also a hammer if you care to > > consider a church courtyard a man made artifact). This > is one of the > > richest > > events ever in the "lore" of meteorites. > > > > 9) Sikhote-Aline: producing thousands of what are > pretty much agreed to be > > the world's most visually impressive iron > individuals. Also a rare Iron > > witnessed fall. > > > > 10) Sylacauga: the only fully documented human > striking meteorite. > > > > I could easily add several more, but these are > just my 2 cents > > worth, anyway. I am likely wrong, as my wife > repeatedly assures me > > I am. > > Best wishes, Michael > > > > > > On 2/14/09 4:59 AM, "Martin Altmann" > wrote: > > > >> Hi Jason, > >> > >> Even though we're living in a fast world and > the "modernism" of our days > >> may > >> give the impression, that new scientific > recoveries are drawn out of the > >> nothing. > >> But science and ideas are always integrated in > traditions and contexts > >> and > >> are built on earlier steps. > >> Chladni hadn't invented the idea, that the > stones may stem from outside. > >> He connected the idea that they come from space > with the fireballs, the > >> existing stones and reports about the falls and > postulated additionally, > >> that they could survive the atmospheric travel. > >> That approach was ridiculous for his contemporary > scientists. > >> After the period of "enlightment" it was > impossible that chunks fall from > >> sky, Newton required empty spaces between the > planets or at it best, > >> cause > >> they were Aristotelians, they had to be > atmospheric products. > >> (Although Tycho had measured long before the > parallaxes of comets, to > >> find > >> out that they move indeed in space). > >> > >> So Chladni's weird theory never would have > been accepted, if there > >> wouldn't > >> have happened that proof, the mighty shower of > L'Aigle, conveniently > >> close > >> to the Acad?mie de sciences. > >> > >> Therefore L'Aigle is for me a benchmark. > Without L'Aigle no Chladni, no > >> Schreibers, no Daubr?e...no modern meteoritics. > (At least not to the > >> advanced stage we have today). > >> > >> Shhht Jason, btw. Chladni isn't that much > known as Father of meteoritics, > >> but for his "Acoustics", he certainly is > partially responsible for the > >> gig > >> tootling out from your speakers, while you're > writing to the list :-) > >> > >> Sure it's only an ordinary chondrite, but you > don't meet the meaning of > >> this > >> milestone, if you look with today's eyes on > it. > >> > >>> It's an ordinary chondrite, of which there > are thousands > >> > >> Which gives in fact to that class an especially > high scientific > >> importance, > >> doesn't it? The chondrites conserved the most > original information about > >> the > >> origin of our solar system, the processes who lead > to the formation of > >> planets and they resemble much more the stuff we > are all made from, than > >> any > >> differentiated meteorite, which tells us rather > the history and > >> development > >> of his individual parent body. And ready we > aren't yet with the > >> chondrites. > >> Ho many theories of chondrules genesis we have at > present? Eleven? > >> Look the recent decade, the discovery of > protoplanetary discs around > >> other > >> stars..... and so on. > >> Only because they are so readily available to the > collectors and despite > >> the > >> antartcic ones so cheap like never before (yes > Mrs.Caroline Smith. > >> Fletcher, > >> Hey, check the museum's archives, had to pay > much more than you), > >> they shouldn't be disregarded. > >> > >> Hey, and confess Jason! The sight of something > like that > >> http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/36.956g.jpg > >> doesn't it made your mouth water? > >> > >> > >> Well, each warehouse telescope for 30 bucks is > better than that, which > >> Galilei pointed to the Moon or Jupiter. But what > for an importance it > >> had! > >> Would we have a Hubble Space telescope now, > without that use of the lousy > >> lense 400 years ago? (Although maybe > Galileo's or Copernicus' role is > >> maybe > >> sometimes somewhat overrated, media stars... > Copernicus' system was in > >> practise inoperative and he had his Islamic and > antique antecessors - I'm > >> a > >> fan of Tycho, which was much more important for > modern astronomy and our > >> view of the world, as he was the first, who > trumped the Islamic > >> astronomy. > >> Without the results of his large-scale > instruments, no Kepler, no Newton, > >> no > >> Oberth, no Rovers on Mars, no security that the > pieces in the Chladni > >> Boxes > >> really originated from the red planet...). > >> Of course it's never a continuously direct and > mono-causal development... > >> Chance and accident are also factors. > >> Allende and Murchison e.g. never would rank in the > importance among the > >> first places, if they hadn't such large tkws > or if they had fallen in the > >> oceans and if there the Moon labs weren't just > ready, when they felt. > >> > >> But in general L'Aigle was the proof. > >> Scientifically important, because with that fall, > the concept of > >> meteorites > >> had to be accepted and the branch of this science > was born at all. > >> > >> So it's my number one - only in my personal > opinion of course. > >> > >> If we follow your criteria, Jason, everything but > the very new had to be > >> ruled out and most probably we would have to make > a ranking of the so far > >> unique - the ungrouped and similar exotics, where > we don't have fully the > >> clues, what exactly it could be. > >> > >> Off now, have to jump into my carriage without > horses. > >> (Hmmm was that important? Quite an unacceptable > junk... > >> http://kuerzer.de/unimport > >> and we certainly would prefer a Lamborghini :-) > >> > >> Best! > >> Martin > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > >> Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > >> > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im > Auftrag von Jason > >> Utas > >> Gesendet: Samstag, 14. Februar 2009 02:21 > >> An: Meteorite-list > >> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 > most > >> scientificallyimportantmeteorites? > >> > >> Hola Martin, > >> I would have to disagree - when you go that far > back, you wind up > >> dealing with meteorites that are of historic, > rather than scientific > >> interest. L'Aigle may be something of an > exception because it did > >> lead to the *scientific* acceptance of meteorites, > but, from today's > >> scientific perspective, I wouldn't call it > very important, never mind > >> giving it a place in the top ten. It's an > ordinary chondrite, of > >> which there are thousands - it's no more > special than, say, Tenham or > >> Gao - from a purely scientific point of view. > >> One might as well call the earliest fossils found > the most important, > >> simply because they were found back in the day and > led to our > >> recognition of what they really > represented...while they may be > >> important, I would hesitate to call them extremely > important from a > >> scientific point of view. > >> Regards, > >> Jason > >> > >> On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 5:12 PM, Martin Altmann > >> wrote: > >>> I choose L'Aigle as N?1. > >>> > >>> Cause else they wouldn't have recognized, > that Chladni was right and > >>> that > >>> they are from space. > >>> > >>> Best! > >>> Martin > >>> > >>> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > >>> Von: > meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > >>> > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im > Auftrag von > >>> ensoramanda at ntlworld.com > >>> Gesendet: Samstag, 14. Februar 2009 00:55 > >>> An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >>> Betreff: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 > most scientifically > >>> importantmeteorites? > >>> > >>> Hi all, > >>> > >>> Just thought it might be interesting to > discover list members opinions > >>> on > >>> what they would choose as the most important > meteorites with regard to > >>> science? Which ones have been the most > significant in increasing our > >>> understanding of the evolution of our solar > system, and what they have > >>> taught us? > >>> > >>> Graham Ensor, UK. > >>> ______________________________________________ > >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com > >>> Meteorite-list mailing list > >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >>> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > >>> > >>> ______________________________________________ > >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com > >>> Meteorite-list mailing list > >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >>> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > >>> > >> ______________________________________________ > >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com > >> Meteorite-list mailing list > >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > >> > >> ______________________________________________ > >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com > >> Meteorite-list mailing list > >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com Sat Feb 14 22:28:41 2009 From: michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com (Michael Gilmer) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 19:28:41 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD : Corrections to my micromount sale list In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <850211.19174.qm@web58401.mail.re3.yahoo.com> My apologies for the double-post. I just noticed that are two mistakes on my list of micromounts for sale. I do not have enough NWA 4439 CO3.3 or Tatahouine to spare, so those micromounts are not available for sale or trade. Regards and clear skies, MikeG ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 18:43:24 -0800 (PST) > From: Michael Gilmer > Subject: [meteorite-list] AD : Micromount Madness - Micros > from $5 and > up. > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Message-ID: > <129637.41681.qm at web58408.mail.re3.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > This ad is for all of the low-budget collectors out there. > :) > > I have a specimen cabinet full of small specimens of 66+ > finds > and falls - 30+ of these are available for sale or trade. > > Below is a list of the micromounts I have available. > Prices are > listed with each. There are too many to individually > photograph > and weigh, so if you are interested in a particular > micromount, > please contact me offlist to arrange for a photo and/or > weight. > Some of the falls or finds that are scarce will be smaller > (bigger > than a "Bessey Speck", but still quite small), > and the more common > types are larger (around 1 gram, some a little bigger). > > Each micromount comes with a 1.25" gemjar with an > identification > label in the bottom. > > Shipping for any CONUS order, regardless of size, is a flat > $2. > > Shipping for any Canadian or Overseas order is a flat $5. > > Minimum order is $10. > > PayPal preferred, and PayPal only for non-CONUS orders. > > To order inquire, contact me offlist at - > mike at galactic-stone.com > > ... > > And now for something completely different..... > > GALACTIC STONE'S FLYING MICROMOUNT CIRCUS : > ------------------------------------------- > > Carancas (H4-5 chondrite, witnessed fall, hammer) -----> > $7 each. > Cape York (iron shale) -----> $7 each. > Chergach (H5 chondrite, witnessed fall, hammer) -----> > $5 each. > Dawn(a) (H6 chondrite) -----> $5 each. > Forestburg(a) (L4 chondrite) -----> $5 each. > Gao-Guenie (H5 chondrite, witnessed fall, hammer) -----> > $5 each. > Gold Basin (L4 chondrite) -----> $5 each. > Henbury (iron octahedrite) -----> $5 each. > Holbrook (L-type chondrite, witnessed fall, hammer) > -----> $5 each. > Indochinite (Tektite, Asia) -----> $5 each. > Libyan Desert Glass (impactite/tektite) -----> $5 each. > Mars Rock (NWA 4925) - (Martian Origin Meteorite) -----> > $35 each. > Moon Rock (NWA 4881) (Lunar-origin Meteorite) -----> $35 > each. > Muonionalusta (iron octahedrite, shale fragments) -----> > $5 each. > Nantan (iron octahedrite, shattered crystals) -----> $5 > each. > Norton County (aubrite, witnessed fall) -----> $7 > NWA 515 (L6 chondrite) -----> $5 each. > NWA 1877 (olivine diogenite) -----> $7 each. > NWA 2828 (EL chondrite) -----> $5 each. > NWA 2634 (ureilite) -----> $7 each. > NWA 2778 (H4 chondrite) -----> $5 each. > NWA 2828 (EL3 chondrite) -----> $5 each. > NWA 3117 (howardite) -----> $7 each. > NWA 4295 (EL6/7 chondrite) -----> $5 each. > NWA 4439 (carbonaceous chondrite CO3.3) -----> $7 each. > NWA 5054 (L5 chondrite) -----> $5 each. > Pallasovka (pallasite) -----> $5 each. > Tamdakht/Tishka (witnessed fall, undergoing classification) > -----> $7 each. > Tatahouine (diogenite, witnessed fall) -----> $7 each. > Travis County (b) (H4 chondrite) -----> $5 each. > Tulia(a) (H3-4 chondrite) -----> $5 each. > Tulia(b) (L6 chondrite) -----> $5 each. > UNWA XXXX (unclassified Saharan meteorite) -----> $5 > each. > Zag (H3-6 chondrite, witnessed fall) -----> $5 each. > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > I also have a large quantity of 1.25" gemjars with > white foam - > brand new, still in the factory packaging. 36 jars to a > lot, > $11 shipped each. > > Thanks for looking and clear skies! > > MikeG > > ......................................................... > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and > http://www.glassthrower.com > .......................................................... From meteoritekid at gmail.com Sat Feb 14 22:36:31 2009 From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 19:36:31 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 most scientifically important meteorites? Message-ID: <93aaac890902141936lb788c56ibe27c92eb906346c@mail.gmail.com> Hello Graham, Sterling, John, Jeff, Walter, Rob, All, With regards to Sterling's point - true enough, but that's taking the historical angle again - we didn't believe that impact craters existed, we find a crater surrounded by meteorites, and eventually enough research added up to prove that it was indeed an impact crater. But this could have been done at any other crater that wasn't badly eroded...it's like L'Aigle in the sense that you're talking about a paradigm shift that could have been caused by any meteorite, any crater. In fact, the meteorite itself in this case becomes irrelevant - you're talking about a crater being important, not the irons. And the irons are fairly typical IAB's, chemically very similar to a number of other irons. I think the trouble is that we need clarification when making such a list because, as a number of you are saying, we're all just making lists based on our interpretation of Graham's request. I saw his question as a demand for a list of meteorites which were of particular scientific note, and made just such a list - but even I became sidetracked in my mentioning of the first lunar and martian meteorites ever recognized, for they fall into the historically, rather than scientifically important category. Their discovery was of note, but the meteorites themselves...while not typical, they're nothing too out of the ordinary. So what determines whether or not a meteorite is of scientific interest? I believe that mentioning things like L'Aigle or Canyon Diablo in this case is wrong because the meteorites, while they did cause major shifts in how we see the solar system and how it works, are relatively ordinary. But beyond that...I believe Greg Hupe had a good point when he mentioned that there are a great number of meteorites that are of great scientific interest that are more or less ignored because they come from NWA. I think it's going to take looking beyond what we think of as rare, because what we know as collectors isn't really what's scientifically important. In many cases, we never get a chance to buy those rocks, and there's good reason for it. I see it in a number of the lists mentioned; at least one person mentioned Calcalong Creek - without even making note of ALHA81005, the first recognized lunar meteorite. Why? Calcalong Creek is a rare and beautiful meteorite, granted, but is it particularly scientifically important? No. But - it was the first lunar meteorite available to the public. Rocks like Graves Nunataks (GRA) 06128 and 06129, like NWA 011, Ibitira, Semarkona, Kaidun - they do much more individually to further our knowledge of the solar system. I couldn't make a list of ten, because saying which unique meteorite or trait of a particular meteorite holds greater importance isn't something I see as rewarding...thinking about it just makes me realize how fortunate we are to be able to actually collect and touch these pieces of the very distant past. Regards, Jason On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at 7:03 PM, Sterling K. Webb wrote: > Dear Jason, List, > >> Canyon Diablo... helped us to understand impact dynamics >> but as to how that plays into our understanding of the >> evolution of the solar system...it doesn't, really. > > Prior to the assertion that Meteor Crater was an impact > feature, the concept of "impact" as a possible event was > nil, non-existent, and when proposed was widely denied, > pooh-pooh'ed -- an affront to the orderly and rational > natural world. > > Barringer conceived of the crater as what we would call > a particularly large impact pit, not an explosive crater, but > the evidence drew him that way. Nininger was really the > first to understand the possibility of impact as a geological > process (without understanding the scale on which it was > possible) and that understanding led straight to the late Gene > Shoemaker, who single-handedly pushed a planet full of > resistant scientists into the realization by patiently rubbing > their noses in it for decades. > > Shoemaker's 1960 paper ending the 70-year dispute about > the origin of Meteor Crater caused a sensation in geology, > as it was the first definitive proof of an extraterrestrial impact > on the Earth's surface. This was the first crater "proved" to be > of impact origin. Proving that impact was a fundamental > geological process would take decades longer. Paradigms > don't always shift quickly. > > In the 1950's, the only cratered body known to science > was the Moon, so presumably craters were an odd or > unique feature in the Solar System, an individual characteristic > of the Moon, not of planetary bodies generally. It was virtually > universally understood that the 1000's of craters that covered > the Moon were volcanic features. Our exploration of the Moon > was substantially biased toward finding (mostly non-existent) > evidence of volcanic activity. > > Even the first photos of craters on Mars in 1965 by Mariner 4 > did not budge that mindset much. This was one of those > you-had-to-be-there moments -- the shock and disbelief caused > by craters on Mars (and the quivers of denial that followed) > was profound, like being hit between the eyes with a two-by-four. > Well, they were probably volcanic craters anyway... > > The 1970's competed the change of paradigm and the fact of > impact as a geological process (the title of the book that nailed it > down firmly). That almost every body in the Solar System > with a solid surface is cratered is now a Ho Hum fact. The > reason that you, Jason, can think it's not important is because > you are on the "modern" side of the conceptual divide. Until > the understanding of impact, solar system formation models > were divided between "accretion" and "coalescence." Very > few people still believe planets formed like a dew drop any > more. The change in formation theory walks hand-in-hand > with impact theory. > > If Canyon Diablo was the catalyst for the recognition of > impact processes in the Solar System -- and I think it was -- > then it might well be the "most significant in increasing our > understanding of the evolution of our solar system." > > > Sterling K. Webb > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jason Utas" > To: "Meteorite-list" > Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 5:08 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 most > scientificallyimportant meteorites? > > > Hola All, > I would have to respectfully disagree. The original post my Graham > asked for a list of ten of "the most important meteorites with regard > to science," and he then went on to ask: "Which ones have been the > most significant in increasing our understanding of the evolution of > our solar system, and what they have taught us?" > I believe that the implication of his email was not to ask for a list > of meteorites that helped to further our acceptance of meteoritics as > a field, but rather to obtain a list of the ten most scientifically > interesting meteorites. And, to be perfectly frank, if L'Aigle had > been any other type (iron, stony-iron, etc), the outcome of the > situation would have been the same. As a meteorite, while it did help > to open our eyes as to what was actually out there, it did little to > tell us of the history of the formation of the solar system. > And Michael's list is more of a list of the most beautiful/interesting > meteorites from the point of view of a collector...it's just a > different sort of list. Did Esquel or Sylacouga contribute to our > knowledge about the early solar system? Not particularly, but they > are two of the more desireable meteorites around, for non-scientific > reasons. Canyon Diablo is interesting in its own right as a > crater-forming meteorite, as it helped us to understand impact > dynamics - but as to how that plays into our understanding of the > evolution of the solar system...it doesn't, really. > Regards, > Jason > > > On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at 1:21 PM, Michael Blood wrote: >> Hi Jason and all, >> First of all, I think it should be mentioned that any such >> List is inevitably biased. >> Next, that said list cannot possibly "nail" a specific 10 >> meteorites. >> Assuming these two prospects are accepted, here are 10 >> Very respectable meteorites that would certainly merit full >> Consideration in comprising such a list ( and at least one "why" >> Per each: >> >> 1) Canyon Diablo: >> prototypical and stable iron from what was >> recognized as the "only" impact crater for a very long time. It >> Can be added that it was also the original site of the Nininger >> Museum >> >> 2) Allende: HUGE strewn field and, at the time, more than >> Doubled the total weight of known CR material available. >> It was also a witnessed fall with multiple hammer stones >> Striking homes and patios >> >> 3) Esquel: "The queen of the Pallasites" with fantastic color, >> Translucency, freedom from rust and in quantities large enough >> To allow any collector to have one of the few stable Pallasites. >> >> 4) Murchison: Providing most of the amino acids that comprise the >> "building blocks" of life, perhaps the most "studied" of any meteorite >> Ever and a major contributor to the angiosperm hypothesis. Again, >> a witnessed fall and a hammer. >> >> 5) Portalas Valley: Perhaps a surprise in many lists, this specimen has >> A unique physiology. Also a hammer. >> >> 6) Weston: The first scientifically recognized meteorite in "the new >> world." >> Also a hammer. >> >> 7. L'Aigle: see below. (Also, there will be a forthcoming article on the >> Status of L'Aigle as a hammer). >> >> 8) Ensischeim: "The meteorite from hell." (also a hammer if you care to >> consider a church courtyard a man made artifact). This is one of the >> richest >> events ever in the "lore" of meteorites. >> >> 9) Sikhote-Aline: producing thousands of what are pretty much agreed to be >> the world's most visually impressive iron individuals. Also a rare Iron >> witnessed fall. >> >> 10) Sylacauga: the only fully documented human striking meteorite. >> >> I could easily add several more, but these are just my 2 cents >> worth, anyway. I am likely wrong, as my wife repeatedly assures me >> I am. >> Best wishes, Michael >> >> >> On 2/14/09 4:59 AM, "Martin Altmann" wrote: >> >>> Hi Jason, >>> >>> Even though we're living in a fast world and the "modernism" of our days >>> may >>> give the impression, that new scientific recoveries are drawn out of the >>> nothing. >>> But science and ideas are always integrated in traditions and contexts >>> and >>> are built on earlier steps. >>> Chladni hadn't invented the idea, that the stones may stem from outside. >>> He connected the idea that they come from space with the fireballs, the >>> existing stones and reports about the falls and postulated additionally, >>> that they could survive the atmospheric travel. >>> That approach was ridiculous for his contemporary scientists. >>> After the period of "enlightment" it was impossible that chunks fall from >>> sky, Newton required empty spaces between the planets or at it best, >>> cause >>> they were Aristotelians, they had to be atmospheric products. >>> (Although Tycho had measured long before the parallaxes of comets, to >>> find >>> out that they move indeed in space). >>> >>> So Chladni's weird theory never would have been accepted, if there >>> wouldn't >>> have happened that proof, the mighty shower of L'Aigle, conveniently >>> close >>> to the Acad?mie de sciences. >>> >>> Therefore L'Aigle is for me a benchmark. Without L'Aigle no Chladni, no >>> Schreibers, no Daubr?e...no modern meteoritics. (At least not to the >>> advanced stage we have today). >>> >>> Shhht Jason, btw. Chladni isn't that much known as Father of meteoritics, >>> but for his "Acoustics", he certainly is partially responsible for the >>> gig >>> tootling out from your speakers, while you're writing to the list :-) >>> >>> Sure it's only an ordinary chondrite, but you don't meet the meaning of >>> this >>> milestone, if you look with today's eyes on it. >>> >>>> It's an ordinary chondrite, of which there are thousands >>> >>> Which gives in fact to that class an especially high scientific >>> importance, >>> doesn't it? The chondrites conserved the most original information about >>> the >>> origin of our solar system, the processes who lead to the formation of >>> planets and they resemble much more the stuff we are all made from, than >>> any >>> differentiated meteorite, which tells us rather the history and >>> development >>> of his individual parent body. And ready we aren't yet with the >>> chondrites. >>> Ho many theories of chondrules genesis we have at present? Eleven? >>> Look the recent decade, the discovery of protoplanetary discs around >>> other >>> stars..... and so on. >>> Only because they are so readily available to the collectors and despite >>> the >>> antartcic ones so cheap like never before (yes Mrs.Caroline Smith. >>> Fletcher, >>> Hey, check the museum's archives, had to pay much more than you), >>> they shouldn't be disregarded. >>> >>> Hey, and confess Jason! The sight of something like that >>> http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/36.956g.jpg >>> doesn't it made your mouth water? >>> >>> >>> Well, each warehouse telescope for 30 bucks is better than that, which >>> Galilei pointed to the Moon or Jupiter. But what for an importance it >>> had! >>> Would we have a Hubble Space telescope now, without that use of the lousy >>> lense 400 years ago? (Although maybe Galileo's or Copernicus' role is >>> maybe >>> sometimes somewhat overrated, media stars... Copernicus' system was in >>> practise inoperative and he had his Islamic and antique antecessors - I'm >>> a >>> fan of Tycho, which was much more important for modern astronomy and our >>> view of the world, as he was the first, who trumped the Islamic >>> astronomy. >>> Without the results of his large-scale instruments, no Kepler, no Newton, >>> no >>> Oberth, no Rovers on Mars, no security that the pieces in the Chladni >>> Boxes >>> really originated from the red planet...). >>> Of course it's never a continuously direct and mono-causal development... >>> Chance and accident are also factors. >>> Allende and Murchison e.g. never would rank in the importance among the >>> first places, if they hadn't such large tkws or if they had fallen in the >>> oceans and if there the Moon labs weren't just ready, when they felt. >>> >>> But in general L'Aigle was the proof. >>> Scientifically important, because with that fall, the concept of >>> meteorites >>> had to be accepted and the branch of this science was born at all. >>> >>> So it's my number one - only in my personal opinion of course. >>> >>> If we follow your criteria, Jason, everything but the very new had to be >>> ruled out and most probably we would have to make a ranking of the so far >>> unique - the ungrouped and similar exotics, where we don't have fully the >>> clues, what exactly it could be. >>> >>> Off now, have to jump into my carriage without horses. >>> (Hmmm was that important? Quite an unacceptable junk... >>> http://kuerzer.de/unimport >>> and we certainly would prefer a Lamborghini :-) >>> >>> Best! >>> Martin >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- >>> Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com >>> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Jason >>> Utas >>> Gesendet: Samstag, 14. Februar 2009 02:21 >>> An: Meteorite-list >>> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 most >>> scientificallyimportantmeteorites? >>> >>> Hola Martin, >>> I would have to disagree - when you go that far back, you wind up >>> dealing with meteorites that are of historic, rather than scientific >>> interest. L'Aigle may be something of an exception because it did >>> lead to the *scientific* acceptance of meteorites, but, from today's >>> scientific perspective, I wouldn't call it very important, never mind >>> giving it a place in the top ten. It's an ordinary chondrite, of >>> which there are thousands - it's no more special than, say, Tenham or >>> Gao - from a purely scientific point of view. >>> One might as well call the earliest fossils found the most important, >>> simply because they were found back in the day and led to our >>> recognition of what they really represented...while they may be >>> important, I would hesitate to call them extremely important from a >>> scientific point of view. >>> Regards, >>> Jason >>> >>> On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 5:12 PM, Martin Altmann >>> wrote: >>>> I choose L'Aigle as N?1. >>>> >>>> Cause else they wouldn't have recognized, that Chladni was right and >>>> that >>>> they are from space. >>>> >>>> Best! >>>> Martin >>>> >>>> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- >>>> Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com >>>> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von >>>> ensoramanda at ntlworld.com >>>> Gesendet: Samstag, 14. Februar 2009 00:55 >>>> An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>> Betreff: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 most scientifically >>>> importantmeteorites? >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> Just thought it might be interesting to discover list members opinions >>>> on >>>> what they would choose as the most important meteorites with regard to >>>> science? Which ones have been the most significant in increasing our >>>> understanding of the evolution of our solar system, and what they have >>>> taught us? >>>> >>>> Graham Ensor, UK. >>>> ______________________________________________ >>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>> >>>> ______________________________________________ >>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>> >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From meteoritefinder at yahoo.com Sun Feb 15 00:25:00 2009 From: meteoritefinder at yahoo.com (Robert Woolard) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 21:25:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 mostscientifically importantmeteorites? Message-ID: <956955.1158.qm@web39608.mail.mud.yahoo.com> The question was: "What are the top 10 most SCIENTIFICALLY important meteorites?". If it were stated that the complete understanding of the mechanisms that led to the formation of a particular meteorite might possibly: "...CHANGE our view of the geologic histories of the asteroids in which SEVERAL types of meteorites formed" and/or, if a noted meteorite researcher and author wrote: "..in regard to the EVOLUTIONARY HISTORY of meteorites, this meteorite IS important" might that meteorite be considered to be one of the most scientifically important meteorites? Just curious. Robert Woolard From stanleygregr at yahoo.com Sun Feb 15 02:38:35 2009 From: stanleygregr at yahoo.com (greg stanley) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 23:38:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 mostscientifically importantmeteorites? In-Reply-To: <956955.1158.qm@web39608.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <548822.3804.qm@web52302.mail.re2.yahoo.com> All: I'm not a scientist but here goes. 1. ALH84001 2. Orgueil 3. Allende 4. Murchison 5. ALHA 81005 6. Tagish Lake 7. Abee 8. D'Orbigny 9. Canyon Diablo 10. Esquel Greg Stanley Robert Woolard wrote: > The question was: "What are the top 10 most SCIENTIFICALLY important meteorites?". > If it were stated that the complete understanding of the mechanisms that led to the formation of a particular meteorite might possibly: > "...CHANGE our view of the geologic histories of the asteroids in which SEVERAL types of meteorites formed" > and/or, if a noted meteorite researcher and author wrote: "..in regard to the EVOLUTIONARY HISTORY of meteorites, this meteorite IS important" > might that meteorite be considered to be one of the most scientifically important meteorites? > Just curious. > Robert Woolard > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From drtanuki at yahoo.com Sun Feb 15 03:19:42 2009 From: drtanuki at yahoo.com (drtanuki) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 00:19:42 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Fireball Alert: North Central Kentucky In-Reply-To: <299799.33913.qm@web55201.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <399786.69981.qm@web53201.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hello Elton, Thank you for the heads-up and post to te Metlist. I have posted a bit more information about the 13FEB09 Kentucky Fireball at: http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.com/ Best Regards, Dirk...Tokyo --- On Sat, 2/14/09, Mr EMan wrote: > From: Mr EMan > Subject: [meteorite-list] Fireball Alert: North Central Kentucky > To: "metlist" > Date: Saturday, February 14, 2009, 12:27 PM > A colleague just called reporting a possible fireball over > Erlangen, Kentucky at 10:04PM Eastern Daylight tonight 13 > Feb 2009. She was not the direct observer but relaying > details from a relative who made the observation > > A greenish-white fireball approximately 2/3rd the diameter > of the full moon was observed through a south southeastern > facing window falling near vertically. No Magnitude estimate > other than "it lit up the room" and "moving > very fast". > > Elton > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Sun Feb 15 03:54:12 2009 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 02:54:12 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 most scientificallyimportant meteorites? References: <93aaac890902141936lb788c56ibe27c92eb906346c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <012e01c98f4a$fa151f90$6151e146@ATARIENGINE> Hi, Jason, List You're certainly right -- we are all interpreting the request quite differently. And yes, I am taking the "historical angle." But the point about history, particularly the history of an idea, is that certain objects or events do more than add to what we know; they make changes in how we think. We are able to think of meteorites AS meteorites because of L'Aigle. If some stone had not been recognized as a genuine proven rock that fell from the heavens, there would be no such thing as a meteorite. By that I mean, its physical reality aside, a meteorite is only a meteorite because we recognize it to be one; the categories of human knowledge are human constructs. No L'Aigle, no meteorites. Of course, I hope humanity is not so dense that L'Aigle was its only chance to figure it out. Maybe Pultusk would have been the "first" meteorite. The little enigimas you mention -- Graves Nunataks (GRA) 06128 and 06129, like NWA 011, Ibitira, Semarkona, Kaidun -- have unique stories, yes, some valuable, some still puzzles, and their full stories, when known, might be immensely important or just another footnote. They are the current mysteries whose importance is largely to show us we don't understand everything yet. Ten (or twenty) years from now, your list would be populated with new mysteries and new revelations (hopefully). The original criterion was "most significant in increasing our understanding of the evolution of our solar system." How far would our understanding of that go if we didn't know the Solar System was full of rocks? And weren't forced to the understanding that they were the leftovers? And therefore that the planets must have been cobbled together from them? And so forth. What would be the meteorites-yet-to-be-discovered that would be on that list? The first rock with unequivocal proof of life anywhere else than this little planet, at whatever time. That would go on my future list. The first rock found that did NOT originate in this solar system. It would make the list. Of course, these rocks may not exist... Personally, I think all the lists suggested to the List are good lists, just of thirteen (or 30 or 300) ways of looking at a blackbird (or a black rock). Sterling K. Webb ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jason Utas" To: "Meteorite-list" Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 9:36 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 most scientificallyimportant meteorites? Hello Graham, Sterling, John, Jeff, Walter, Rob, All, With regards to Sterling's point - true enough, but that's taking the historical angle again - we didn't believe that impact craters existed, we find a crater surrounded by meteorites, and eventually enough research added up to prove that it was indeed an impact crater. But this could have been done at any other crater that wasn't badly eroded...it's like L'Aigle in the sense that you're talking about a paradigm shift that could have been caused by any meteorite, any crater. In fact, the meteorite itself in this case becomes irrelevant - you're talking about a crater being important, not the irons. And the irons are fairly typical IAB's, chemically very similar to a number of other irons. I think the trouble is that we need clarification when making such a list because, as a number of you are saying, we're all just making lists based on our interpretation of Graham's request. I saw his question as a demand for a list of meteorites which were of particular scientific note, and made just such a list - but even I became sidetracked in my mentioning of the first lunar and martian meteorites ever recognized, for they fall into the historically, rather than scientifically important category. Their discovery was of note, but the meteorites themselves...while not typical, they're nothing too out of the ordinary. So what determines whether or not a meteorite is of scientific interest? I believe that mentioning things like L'Aigle or Canyon Diablo in this case is wrong because the meteorites, while they did cause major shifts in how we see the solar system and how it works, are relatively ordinary. But beyond that...I believe Greg Hupe had a good point when he mentioned that there are a great number of meteorites that are of great scientific interest that are more or less ignored because they come from NWA. I think it's going to take looking beyond what we think of as rare, because what we know as collectors isn't really what's scientifically important. In many cases, we never get a chance to buy those rocks, and there's good reason for it. I see it in a number of the lists mentioned; at least one person mentioned Calcalong Creek - without even making note of ALHA81005, the first recognized lunar meteorite. Why? Calcalong Creek is a rare and beautiful meteorite, granted, but is it particularly scientifically important? No. But - it was the first lunar meteorite available to the public. Rocks like Graves Nunataks (GRA) 06128 and 06129, like NWA 011, Ibitira, Semarkona, Kaidun - they do much more individually to further our knowledge of the solar system. I couldn't make a list of ten, because saying which unique meteorite or trait of a particular meteorite holds greater importance isn't something I see as rewarding...thinking about it just makes me realize how fortunate we are to be able to actually collect and touch these pieces of the very distant past. Regards, Jason On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at 7:03 PM, Sterling K. Webb wrote: > Dear Jason, List, > >> Canyon Diablo... helped us to understand impact dynamics >> but as to how that plays into our understanding of the >> evolution of the solar system...it doesn't, really. > > Prior to the assertion that Meteor Crater was an impact > feature, the concept of "impact" as a possible event was > nil, non-existent, and when proposed was widely denied, > pooh-pooh'ed -- an affront to the orderly and rational > natural world. > > Barringer conceived of the crater as what we would call > a particularly large impact pit, not an explosive crater, but > the evidence drew him that way. Nininger was really the > first to understand the possibility of impact as a geological > process (without understanding the scale on which it was > possible) and that understanding led straight to the late Gene > Shoemaker, who single-handedly pushed a planet full of > resistant scientists into the realization by patiently rubbing > their noses in it for decades. > > Shoemaker's 1960 paper ending the 70-year dispute about > the origin of Meteor Crater caused a sensation in geology, > as it was the first definitive proof of an extraterrestrial impact > on the Earth's surface. This was the first crater "proved" to be > of impact origin. Proving that impact was a fundamental > geological process would take decades longer. Paradigms > don't always shift quickly. > > In the 1950's, the only cratered body known to science > was the Moon, so presumably craters were an odd or > unique feature in the Solar System, an individual characteristic > of the Moon, not of planetary bodies generally. It was virtually > universally understood that the 1000's of craters that covered > the Moon were volcanic features. Our exploration of the Moon > was substantially biased toward finding (mostly non-existent) > evidence of volcanic activity. > > Even the first photos of craters on Mars in 1965 by Mariner 4 > did not budge that mindset much. This was one of those > you-had-to-be-there moments -- the shock and disbelief caused > by craters on Mars (and the quivers of denial that followed) > was profound, like being hit between the eyes with a two-by-four. > Well, they were probably volcanic craters anyway... > > The 1970's competed the change of paradigm and the fact of > impact as a geological process (the title of the book that nailed it > down firmly). That almost every body in the Solar System > with a solid surface is cratered is now a Ho Hum fact. The > reason that you, Jason, can think it's not important is because > you are on the "modern" side of the conceptual divide. Until > the understanding of impact, solar system formation models > were divided between "accretion" and "coalescence." Very > few people still believe planets formed like a dew drop any > more. The change in formation theory walks hand-in-hand > with impact theory. > > If Canyon Diablo was the catalyst for the recognition of > impact processes in the Solar System -- and I think it was -- > then it might well be the "most significant in increasing our > understanding of the evolution of our solar system." > > > Sterling K. Webb > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jason Utas" > To: "Meteorite-list" > Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 5:08 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 most > scientificallyimportant meteorites? > > > Hola All, > I would have to respectfully disagree. The original post my Graham > asked for a list of ten of "the most important meteorites with regard > to science," and he then went on to ask: "Which ones have been the > most significant in increasing our understanding of the evolution of > our solar system, and what they have taught us?" > I believe that the implication of his email was not to ask for a list > of meteorites that helped to further our acceptance of meteoritics as > a field, but rather to obtain a list of the ten most scientifically > interesting meteorites. And, to be perfectly frank, if L'Aigle had > been any other type (iron, stony-iron, etc), the outcome of the > situation would have been the same. As a meteorite, while it did help > to open our eyes as to what was actually out there, it did little to > tell us of the history of the formation of the solar system. > And Michael's list is more of a list of the most beautiful/interesting > meteorites from the point of view of a collector...it's just a > different sort of list. Did Esquel or Sylacouga contribute to our > knowledge about the early solar system? Not particularly, but they > are two of the more desireable meteorites around, for non-scientific > reasons. Canyon Diablo is interesting in its own right as a > crater-forming meteorite, as it helped us to understand impact > dynamics - but as to how that plays into our understanding of the > evolution of the solar system...it doesn't, really. > Regards, > Jason > > > On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at 1:21 PM, Michael Blood wrote: >> Hi Jason and all, >> First of all, I think it should be mentioned that any such >> List is inevitably biased. >> Next, that said list cannot possibly "nail" a specific 10 >> meteorites. >> Assuming these two prospects are accepted, here are 10 >> Very respectable meteorites that would certainly merit full >> Consideration in comprising such a list ( and at least one "why" >> Per each: >> >> 1) Canyon Diablo: >> prototypical and stable iron from what was >> recognized as the "only" impact crater for a very long time. It >> Can be added that it was also the original site of the Nininger >> Museum >> >> 2) Allende: HUGE strewn field and, at the time, more than >> Doubled the total weight of known CR material available. >> It was also a witnessed fall with multiple hammer stones >> Striking homes and patios >> >> 3) Esquel: "The queen of the Pallasites" with fantastic color, >> Translucency, freedom from rust and in quantities large enough >> To allow any collector to have one of the few stable Pallasites. >> >> 4) Murchison: Providing most of the amino acids that comprise the >> "building blocks" of life, perhaps the most "studied" of any meteorite >> Ever and a major contributor to the angiosperm hypothesis. Again, >> a witnessed fall and a hammer. >> >> 5) Portalas Valley: Perhaps a surprise in many lists, this specimen has >> A unique physiology. Also a hammer. >> >> 6) Weston: The first scientifically recognized meteorite in "the new >> world." >> Also a hammer. >> >> 7. L'Aigle: see below. (Also, there will be a forthcoming article on the >> Status of L'Aigle as a hammer). >> >> 8) Ensischeim: "The meteorite from hell." (also a hammer if you care to >> consider a church courtyard a man made artifact). This is one of the >> richest >> events ever in the "lore" of meteorites. >> >> 9) Sikhote-Aline: producing thousands of what are pretty much agreed to >> be >> the world's most visually impressive iron individuals. Also a rare Iron >> witnessed fall. >> >> 10) Sylacauga: the only fully documented human striking meteorite. >> >> I could easily add several more, but these are just my 2 cents >> worth, anyway. I am likely wrong, as my wife repeatedly assures me >> I am. >> Best wishes, Michael >> >> >> On 2/14/09 4:59 AM, "Martin Altmann" wrote: >> >>> Hi Jason, >>> >>> Even though we're living in a fast world and the "modernism" of our days >>> may >>> give the impression, that new scientific recoveries are drawn out of the >>> nothing. >>> But science and ideas are always integrated in traditions and contexts >>> and >>> are built on earlier steps. >>> Chladni hadn't invented the idea, that the stones may stem from outside. >>> He connected the idea that they come from space with the fireballs, the >>> existing stones and reports about the falls and postulated additionally, >>> that they could survive the atmospheric travel. >>> That approach was ridiculous for his contemporary scientists. >>> After the period of "enlightment" it was impossible that chunks fall >>> from >>> sky, Newton required empty spaces between the planets or at it best, >>> cause >>> they were Aristotelians, they had to be atmospheric products. >>> (Although Tycho had measured long before the parallaxes of comets, to >>> find >>> out that they move indeed in space). >>> >>> So Chladni's weird theory never would have been accepted, if there >>> wouldn't >>> have happened that proof, the mighty shower of L'Aigle, conveniently >>> close >>> to the Acad?mie de sciences. >>> >>> Therefore L'Aigle is for me a benchmark. Without L'Aigle no Chladni, no >>> Schreibers, no Daubr?e...no modern meteoritics. (At least not to the >>> advanced stage we have today). >>> >>> Shhht Jason, btw. Chladni isn't that much known as Father of >>> meteoritics, >>> but for his "Acoustics", he certainly is partially responsible for the >>> gig >>> tootling out from your speakers, while you're writing to the list :-) >>> >>> Sure it's only an ordinary chondrite, but you don't meet the meaning of >>> this >>> milestone, if you look with today's eyes on it. >>> >>>> It's an ordinary chondrite, of which there are thousands >>> >>> Which gives in fact to that class an especially high scientific >>> importance, >>> doesn't it? The chondrites conserved the most original information about >>> the >>> origin of our solar system, the processes who lead to the formation of >>> planets and they resemble much more the stuff we are all made from, than >>> any >>> differentiated meteorite, which tells us rather the history and >>> development >>> of his individual parent body. And ready we aren't yet with the >>> chondrites. >>> Ho many theories of chondrules genesis we have at present? Eleven? >>> Look the recent decade, the discovery of protoplanetary discs around >>> other >>> stars..... and so on. >>> Only because they are so readily available to the collectors and despite >>> the >>> antartcic ones so cheap like never before (yes Mrs.Caroline Smith. >>> Fletcher, >>> Hey, check the museum's archives, had to pay much more than you), >>> they shouldn't be disregarded. >>> >>> Hey, and confess Jason! The sight of something like that >>> http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/36.956g.jpg >>> doesn't it made your mouth water? >>> >>> >>> Well, each warehouse telescope for 30 bucks is better than that, which >>> Galilei pointed to the Moon or Jupiter. But what for an importance it >>> had! >>> Would we have a Hubble Space telescope now, without that use of the >>> lousy >>> lense 400 years ago? (Although maybe Galileo's or Copernicus' role is >>> maybe >>> sometimes somewhat overrated, media stars... Copernicus' system was in >>> practise inoperative and he had his Islamic and antique antecessors - >>> I'm >>> a >>> fan of Tycho, which was much more important for modern astronomy and our >>> view of the world, as he was the first, who trumped the Islamic >>> astronomy. >>> Without the results of his large-scale instruments, no Kepler, no >>> Newton, >>> no >>> Oberth, no Rovers on Mars, no security that the pieces in the Chladni >>> Boxes >>> really originated from the red planet...). >>> Of course it's never a continuously direct and mono-causal >>> development... >>> Chance and accident are also factors. >>> Allende and Murchison e.g. never would rank in the importance among the >>> first places, if they hadn't such large tkws or if they had fallen in >>> the >>> oceans and if there the Moon labs weren't just ready, when they felt. >>> >>> But in general L'Aigle was the proof. >>> Scientifically important, because with that fall, the concept of >>> meteorites >>> had to be accepted and the branch of this science was born at all. >>> >>> So it's my number one - only in my personal opinion of course. >>> >>> If we follow your criteria, Jason, everything but the very new had to be >>> ruled out and most probably we would have to make a ranking of the so >>> far >>> unique - the ungrouped and similar exotics, where we don't have fully >>> the >>> clues, what exactly it could be. >>> >>> Off now, have to jump into my carriage without horses. >>> (Hmmm was that important? Quite an unacceptable junk... >>> http://kuerzer.de/unimport >>> and we certainly would prefer a Lamborghini :-) >>> >>> Best! >>> Martin >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- >>> Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com >>> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von >>> Jason >>> Utas >>> Gesendet: Samstag, 14. Februar 2009 02:21 >>> An: Meteorite-list >>> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 most >>> scientificallyimportantmeteorites? >>> >>> Hola Martin, >>> I would have to disagree - when you go that far back, you wind up >>> dealing with meteorites that are of historic, rather than scientific >>> interest. L'Aigle may be something of an exception because it did >>> lead to the *scientific* acceptance of meteorites, but, from today's >>> scientific perspective, I wouldn't call it very important, never mind >>> giving it a place in the top ten. It's an ordinary chondrite, of >>> which there are thousands - it's no more special than, say, Tenham or >>> Gao - from a purely scientific point of view. >>> One might as well call the earliest fossils found the most important, >>> simply because they were found back in the day and led to our >>> recognition of what they really represented...while they may be >>> important, I would hesitate to call them extremely important from a >>> scientific point of view. >>> Regards, >>> Jason >>> >>> On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 5:12 PM, Martin Altmann >>> wrote: >>>> I choose L'Aigle as N?1. >>>> >>>> Cause else they wouldn't have recognized, that Chladni was right and >>>> that >>>> they are from space. >>>> >>>> Best! >>>> Martin >>>> >>>> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- >>>> Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com >>>> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von >>>> ensoramanda at ntlworld.com >>>> Gesendet: Samstag, 14. Februar 2009 00:55 >>>> An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>> Betreff: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 most scientifically >>>> importantmeteorites? >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> Just thought it might be interesting to discover list members opinions >>>> on >>>> what they would choose as the most important meteorites with regard to >>>> science? Which ones have been the most significant in increasing our >>>> understanding of the evolution of our solar system, and what they have >>>> taught us? >>>> >>>> Graham Ensor, UK. >>>> ______________________________________________ >>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>> >>>> ______________________________________________ >>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>> >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com Sun Feb 15 03:57:51 2009 From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 00:57:51 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] New Moroccan Fall Message-ID: Hello John and others, I have smaller pieces than yours so your visual assessment may be more accurate than my own, but my .3g Carancas appear a bit whiter than my .89g Tamdakht (Tishka). I remember earlier descriptions of the Carancas was that it is very friable. I haven't read if anybody had tried to crush the Tamdakht with just fingers. Another similar looking meteorite I have is the Weston. Carl G'Day List I noticed there's been alot of information posted in regards to the recent fall in Morocco, Tishka. I will call it that for the time being, knowing quite well it could change and there's alot of alternatives out there. Now I might be blowing a little bit of smoke here, so please don't flame me too hard. But I received a 4.5 gram fragment of Tishka and naturally my first move is I grab my loop and do a quick scan. I don't have the ability to do scientific analysis, but from doing a preliminary check it was like deja-vu. So yes, back to the boxes of my collection and sure enough I found a 3 gram piece of Carancas. I was amazed at the similarities. Now don't get me wrong here, this is just a visual inspection. The Carancas which had a nice area of slickenslide which has been referred to, also appears to be identical on Tishka. And then you have other characteristics and I can list a few more, but I don't possess the scientific knowledge that the members of the list have. But I just found it uncanny that I'm holding Carancas in one hand and Tishka in the other and I just could not tell them apart. Am I just assuming that we have something similar or just grabbing at straws? I would like hear your input . As I said earlier, I might just be blowing smoke, but has anyone else noticed the similarities? Cheers John _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_allup_explore_022009 From michael at spacerocksinc.com Sun Feb 15 06:50:33 2009 From: michael at spacerocksinc.com (Michael Johnson) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 03:50:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - February 15, 2009 Message-ID: <15543840.729731234698633735.JavaMail.root@mbs5.homesteadmail.com> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/February_15_2009.html From lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu Sun Feb 15 07:49:16 2009 From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu (lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 05:49:16 -0700 (MST) Subject: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 most scientificallyimportant meteorites? In-Reply-To: <010301c98f1a$00032ea0$6151e146@ATARIENGINE> References: <002c01c98ea4$049b5800$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> <93aaac890902141508x3a671c13k1b972f8a36c1eabc@mail.gmail.com> <010301c98f1a$00032ea0$6151e146@ATARIENGINE> Message-ID: <59552.71.226.60.25.1234702156.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> To continue on Sterling's theme about Mars (a little off topic from meteorites): Thanks to Gene Shoemaker, a number of lunar missions, and Apollo, it was clear that the craters on the Moon were impact features and not volcanic. However, for Mars, it was just another Moon-like body! Mariner 4, as Sterling states, showed that Mars sort of looked like the Moon: craters. Within a month after Apollo 11, Mariner 6 and 7 had flown by Mars and taken a bunch more detailed images of Mars. However, they flew by the equator and south pole of Mars. All they saw were (other than the pole), more craters! It was not until 1971 with the Mariner 9 orbiter that we knew that Mars was not all that Moon-like (from the point of view of craters) when it discovered Valis Marineris and Olympus Mons. Oh, Sterling, to date me, I WAS there for Mariner 6 and 7. My summer job before grad school was, among other things, developing (yes we used film) the images that came back from Mariner 6 and 7. Larry On Sat, February 14, 2009 8:03 pm, Sterling K. Webb wrote: > Dear Jason, List, > > >> Canyon Diablo... helped us to understand impact dynamics >> but as to how that plays into our understanding of the evolution of the >> solar system...it doesn't, really. > > Prior to the assertion that Meteor Crater was an impact > feature, the concept of "impact" as a possible event was nil, non-existent, > and when proposed was widely denied, pooh-pooh'ed -- an affront to the > orderly and rational natural world. > > Barringer conceived of the crater as what we would call > a particularly large impact pit, not an explosive crater, but the evidence > drew him that way. Nininger was really the first to understand the > possibility of impact as a geological process (without understanding the > scale on which it was possible) and that understanding led straight to the > late Gene Shoemaker, who single-handedly pushed a planet full of > resistant scientists into the realization by patiently rubbing their noses > in it for decades. > > Shoemaker's 1960 paper ending the 70-year dispute about > the origin of Meteor Crater caused a sensation in geology, as it was the > first definitive proof of an extraterrestrial impact on the Earth's > surface. This was the first crater "proved" to be of impact origin. > Proving that impact was a fundamental > geological process would take decades longer. Paradigms don't always shift > quickly. > > In the 1950's, the only cratered body known to science > was the Moon, so presumably craters were an odd or unique feature in the > Solar System, an individual characteristic > of the Moon, not of planetary bodies generally. It was virtually > universally understood that the 1000's of craters that covered the Moon > were volcanic features. Our exploration of the Moon was substantially > biased toward finding (mostly non-existent) evidence of volcanic activity. > > > Even the first photos of craters on Mars in 1965 by Mariner 4 > did not budge that mindset much. This was one of those you-had-to-be-there > moments -- the shock and disbelief caused by craters on Mars (and the > quivers of denial that followed) was profound, like being hit between the > eyes with a two-by-four. Well, they were probably volcanic craters > anyway... > > The 1970's competed the change of paradigm and the fact of > impact as a geological process (the title of the book that nailed it down > firmly). That almost every body in the Solar System with a solid surface > is cratered is now a Ho Hum fact. The reason that you, Jason, can think > it's not important is because you are on the "modern" side of the > conceptual divide. Until the understanding of impact, solar system > formation models were divided between "accretion" and "coalescence." Very > few people still believe planets formed like a dew drop any more. The > change in formation theory walks hand-in-hand with impact theory. > > If Canyon Diablo was the catalyst for the recognition of > impact processes in the Solar System -- and I think it was -- then it might > well be the "most significant in increasing our understanding of the > evolution of our solar system." > > > Sterling K. Webb > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > --- > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jason Utas" > To: "Meteorite-list" > Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 5:08 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 most > scientificallyimportant meteorites? > > > Hola All, > I would have to respectfully disagree. The original post my Graham > asked for a list of ten of "the most important meteorites with regard to > science," and he then went on to ask: "Which ones have been the most > significant in increasing our understanding of the evolution of our solar > system, and what they have taught us?" I believe that the implication of > his email was not to ask for a list of meteorites that helped to further > our acceptance of meteoritics as a field, but rather to obtain a list of > the ten most scientifically interesting meteorites. And, to be perfectly > frank, if L'Aigle had been any other type (iron, stony-iron, etc), the > outcome of the situation would have been the same. As a meteorite, while > it did help to open our eyes as to what was actually out there, it did > little to tell us of the history of the formation of the solar system. And > Michael's list is more of a list of the most beautiful/interesting > meteorites from the point of view of a collector...it's just a different > sort of list. Did Esquel or Sylacouga contribute to our knowledge about > the early solar system? Not particularly, but they are two of the more > desireable meteorites around, for non-scientific reasons. Canyon Diablo > is interesting in its own right as a crater-forming meteorite, as it > helped us to understand impact dynamics - but as to how that plays into > our understanding of the evolution of the solar system...it doesn't, > really. Regards, > Jason > > > > On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at 1:21 PM, Michael Blood wrote: > >> Hi Jason and all, >> First of all, I think it should be mentioned that any such >> List is inevitably biased. >> Next, that said list cannot possibly "nail" a specific 10 >> meteorites. Assuming these two prospects are accepted, here are 10 >> Very respectable meteorites that would certainly merit full >> Consideration in comprising such a list ( and at least one "why" >> Per each: >> >> >> 1) Canyon Diablo: >> prototypical and stable iron from what was recognized as the "only" >> impact crater for a very long time. It Can be added that it was also the >> original site of the Nininger Museum >> >> >> 2) Allende: HUGE strewn field and, at the time, more than >> Doubled the total weight of known CR material available. >> It was also a witnessed fall with multiple hammer stones >> Striking homes and patios >> >> >> 3) Esquel: "The queen of the Pallasites" with fantastic color, >> Translucency, freedom from rust and in quantities large enough >> To allow any collector to have one of the few stable Pallasites. >> >> >> 4) Murchison: Providing most of the amino acids that comprise the >> "building blocks" of life, perhaps the most "studied" of any meteorite >> Ever and a major contributor to the angiosperm hypothesis. Again, >> a witnessed fall and a hammer. >> >> 5) Portalas Valley: Perhaps a surprise in many lists, this specimen has >> A unique physiology. Also a hammer. >> >> >> 6) Weston: The first scientifically recognized meteorite in "the new >> world." Also a hammer. >> >> >> 7. L'Aigle: see below. (Also, there will be a forthcoming article on >> the Status of L'Aigle as a hammer). >> >> >> 8) Ensischeim: "The meteorite from hell." (also a hammer if you care to >> consider a church courtyard a man made artifact). This is one of the >> richest events ever in the "lore" of meteorites. >> >> 9) Sikhote-Aline: producing thousands of what are pretty much agreed to >> be the world's most visually impressive iron individuals. Also a rare >> Iron >> witnessed fall. >> >> 10) Sylacauga: the only fully documented human striking meteorite. >> >> >> I could easily add several more, but these are just my 2 cents >> worth, anyway. I am likely wrong, as my wife repeatedly assures me I am. >> Best wishes, Michael >> >> >> >> On 2/14/09 4:59 AM, "Martin Altmann" >> wrote: >> >> >>> Hi Jason, >>> >>> >>> Even though we're living in a fast world and the "modernism" of our >>> days may give the impression, that new scientific recoveries are drawn >>> out of the nothing. But science and ideas are always integrated in >>> traditions and contexts and are built on earlier steps. Chladni hadn't >>> invented the idea, that the stones may stem from outside. He connected >>> the idea that they come from space with the fireballs, the existing >>> stones and reports about the falls and postulated additionally, that >>> they could survive the atmospheric travel. That approach was >>> ridiculous for his contemporary scientists. After the period of >>> "enlightment" it was impossible that chunks fall from >>> sky, Newton required empty spaces between the planets or at it best, >>> cause they were Aristotelians, they had to be atmospheric products. >>> (Although Tycho had measured long before the parallaxes of comets, to >>> find out that they move indeed in space). >>> >>> So Chladni's weird theory never would have been accepted, if there >>> wouldn't have happened that proof, the mighty shower of L'Aigle, >>> conveniently close to the Acad?mie de sciences. >>> >>> Therefore L'Aigle is for me a benchmark. Without L'Aigle no Chladni, >>> no Schreibers, no Daubr?e...no modern meteoritics. (At least not to >>> the advanced stage we have today). >>> >>> Shhht Jason, btw. Chladni isn't that much known as Father of >>> meteoritics, but for his "Acoustics", he certainly is partially >>> responsible for the gig tootling out from your speakers, while you're >>> writing to the list :-) >>> >>> Sure it's only an ordinary chondrite, but you don't meet the meaning >>> of this milestone, if you look with today's eyes on it. >>> >>>> It's an ordinary chondrite, of which there are thousands >>>> >>> >>> Which gives in fact to that class an especially high scientific >>> importance, doesn't it? The chondrites conserved the most original >>> information about the origin of our solar system, the processes who >>> lead to the formation of planets and they resemble much more the stuff >>> we are all made from, than any differentiated meteorite, which tells us >>> rather the history and development of his individual parent body. And >>> ready we aren't yet with the chondrites. Ho many theories of chondrules >>> genesis we have at present? Eleven? Look the recent decade, the >>> discovery of protoplanetary discs around other stars..... and so on. >>> Only because they are so readily available to the collectors and >>> despite the antartcic ones so cheap like never before (yes Mrs.Caroline >>> Smith. >>> Fletcher, >>> Hey, check the museum's archives, had to pay much more than you), >>> they shouldn't be disregarded. >>> >>> Hey, and confess Jason! The sight of something like that >>> http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/36.956g.jpg >>> doesn't it made your mouth water? >>> >>> >>> Well, each warehouse telescope for 30 bucks is better than that, >>> which Galilei pointed to the Moon or Jupiter. But what for an >>> importance it had! Would we have a Hubble Space telescope now, without >>> that use of the lousy lense 400 years ago? (Although maybe Galileo's >>> or Copernicus' role is maybe sometimes somewhat overrated, media >>> stars... Copernicus' system was in practise inoperative and he had his >>> Islamic and antique antecessors - I'm >>> afan of Tycho, which was much more important for modern astronomy and >>> our view of the world, as he was the first, who trumped the Islamic >>> astronomy. Without the results of his large-scale instruments, no >>> Kepler, no Newton, >>> no Oberth, no Rovers on Mars, no security that the pieces in the >>> Chladni >>> Boxes >>> really originated from the red planet...). Of course it's never a >>> continuously direct and mono-causal development... Chance and accident >>> are also factors. Allende and Murchison e.g. never would rank in the >>> importance among the first places, if they hadn't such large tkws or >>> if they had fallen in the oceans and if there the Moon labs weren't >>> just ready, when they felt. >>> >>> But in general L'Aigle was the proof. >>> Scientifically important, because with that fall, the concept of >>> meteorites had to be accepted and the branch of this science was born >>> at all. >>> >>> So it's my number one - only in my personal opinion of course. >>> >>> >>> If we follow your criteria, Jason, everything but the very new had to >>> be ruled out and most probably we would have to make a ranking of the >>> so far unique - the ungrouped and similar exotics, where we don't have >>> fully the clues, what exactly it could be. >>> >>> Off now, have to jump into my carriage without horses. >>> (Hmmm was that important? Quite an unacceptable junk... >>> http://kuerzer.de/unimport >>> and we certainly would prefer a Lamborghini :-) >>> >>> Best! >>> Martin >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- >>> Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com >>> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von >>> Jason >>> Utas >>> Gesendet: Samstag, 14. Februar 2009 02:21 >>> An: Meteorite-list >>> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 most >>> scientificallyimportantmeteorites? >>> >>> Hola Martin, >>> I would have to disagree - when you go that far back, you wind up >>> dealing with meteorites that are of historic, rather than scientific >>> interest. L'Aigle may be something of an exception because it did >>> lead to the *scientific* acceptance of meteorites, but, from today's >>> scientific perspective, I wouldn't call it very important, never mind >>> giving it a place in the top ten. It's an ordinary chondrite, of >>> which there are thousands - it's no more special than, say, Tenham or >>> Gao - from a purely scientific point of view. >>> One might as well call the earliest fossils found the most important, >>> simply because they were found back in the day and led to our >>> recognition of what they really represented...while they may be >>> important, I would hesitate to call them extremely important from a >>> scientific point of view. Regards, >>> Jason >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 5:12 PM, Martin Altmann >>> wrote: >>> >>>> I choose L'Aigle as N?1. >>>> >>>> >>>> Cause else they wouldn't have recognized, that Chladni was right >>>> and that they are from space. >>>> >>>> Best! >>>> Martin >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- >>>> Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com >>>> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von >>>> ensoramanda at ntlworld.com Gesendet: Samstag, 14. Februar 2009 00:55 >>>> An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>> Betreff: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 most scientifically >>>> importantmeteorites? >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> >>>> Just thought it might be interesting to discover list members >>>> opinions on what they would choose as the most important meteorites >>>> with regard to science? Which ones have been the most significant in >>>> increasing our understanding of the evolution of our solar system, >>>> and what they have taught us? >>>> >>>> Graham Ensor, UK. >>>> ______________________________________________ >>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>> >>>> >>>> ______________________________________________ >>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>> >>>> >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> >>> >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From jgrossman at usgs.gov Sun Feb 15 07:53:00 2009 From: jgrossman at usgs.gov (Jeff Grossman) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 07:53:00 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 most scientificallyimportant meteorites? In-Reply-To: <012e01c98f4a$fa151f90$6151e146@ATARIENGINE> References: <93aaac890902141936lb788c56ibe27c92eb906346c@mail.gmail.com> <012e01c98f4a$fa151f90$6151e146@ATARIENGINE> Message-ID: <4998102C.5040003@usgs.gov> [retransmit of message that didn't seem to go through] I can speak to the subject of chondrites and what they tell us about the very early solar system. I read the question in the present tense: what ARE the most important meteorites [today]. Among ordinary chondrites, there is one meteorite that is clearly the most important to current research: Semarkona. It is the least metamorphosed ordinary chondrite and best preserves the pre-accretionary record. NASA ADS lists >50 references that mention it in the abstract since the year 2000. If you want to study primitive OCs, you study this one if you can get it. Nothing else is close. Among carbonaceous chondrites, there are several: Acfer 094 has seen almost no thermal metamorphism and almost no aqueous alteration, an extreme rarity among carbonaceous chondrites. It too is a hotly studied meteorite. 50 references since 2000. Murchison is still probably the king of CM chondrites. Although heavily altered by water, none of the CMs have seen much heating, and they still retain a good record of nebular and presolar processes. By virtue of its large recovered mass, and the high content of organic compounds in this group, it is still widely studied 40 years after the fall. >100 refs since 2000. Although the CV chondrite Allende is now known to be fairly altered and somewhat metamorphosed, no meteorite is studied as much, even today, with >350 refs since 2000. It is especially important for what it tells us about CAI formation. Another CV, Vigarano, also sees a lot of research because it is less messed up than Allende (>50 refs since 2000) and has a large mass in collections. The fairly massive CI chondrite Orgueil is still the go-to meteorite in this chemically primitive, unmetamorphosed, but greatly altered group, especially for studies of organic compounds: >150 refs since 2000. Other C chondrites like Renazzo, Isheyevo, and especially Tagish Lake (>150 refs) are also widely studied. I think Kaidun is also a very important meteorite due to the incredible diversity of clasts it contains, but it is hard for researchers to obtain. Among enstatite chondrites, it's harder to say which are the most important. I guess I'd name Yamato 691 and Qingzhen as the most important primitive ones. They are not widely studied these days. So there are 12 of what I think are the most important chondrites. I probably forgot some too! Jeff Sterling K. Webb wrote: > Hi, Jason, List > > You're certainly right -- we are all interpreting the > request quite differently. And yes, I am taking the > "historical angle." But the point about history, particularly > the history of an idea, is that certain objects or events > do more than add to what we know; they make changes > in how we think. We are able to think of meteorites AS > meteorites because of L'Aigle. If some stone had not > been recognized as a genuine proven rock that fell from > the heavens, there would be no such thing as a meteorite. > > By that I mean, its physical reality aside, a meteorite > is only a meteorite because we recognize it to be one; > the categories of human knowledge are human constructs. > No L'Aigle, no meteorites. Of course, I hope humanity is > not so dense that L'Aigle was its only chance to figure > it out. Maybe Pultusk would have been the "first" meteorite. > > The little enigimas you mention -- Graves Nunataks > (GRA) 06128 and 06129, like NWA 011, Ibitira, Semarkona, > Kaidun -- have unique stories, yes, some valuable, some > still puzzles, and their full stories, when known, might be > immensely important or just another footnote. They are > the current mysteries whose importance is largely to show > us we don't understand everything yet. Ten (or twenty) years > from now, your list would be populated with new mysteries > and new revelations (hopefully). > > The original criterion was "most significant in increasing > our understanding of the evolution of our solar system." > How far would our understanding of that go if we didn't > know the Solar System was full of rocks? And weren't forced > to the understanding that they were the leftovers? And > therefore that the planets must have been cobbled together > from them? And so forth. > > What would be the meteorites-yet-to-be-discovered that > would be on that list? The first rock with unequivocal proof > of life anywhere else than this little planet, at whatever time. > That would go on my future list. The first rock found that > did NOT originate in this solar system. It would make the > list. Of course, these rocks may not exist... > > Personally, I think all the lists suggested to the List are > good lists, just of thirteen (or 30 or 300) ways of looking > at a blackbird (or a black rock). > > > > Sterling K. Webb > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jason Utas" > To: "Meteorite-list" > Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 9:36 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 most > scientificallyimportant meteorites? > > > Hello Graham, Sterling, John, Jeff, Walter, Rob, All, > > With regards to Sterling's point - true enough, but that's taking the > historical angle again - we didn't believe that impact craters > existed, we find a crater surrounded by meteorites, and eventually > enough research added up to prove that it was indeed an impact crater. > But this could have been done at any other crater that wasn't badly > eroded...it's like L'Aigle in the sense that you're talking about a > paradigm shift that could have been caused by any meteorite, any > crater. In fact, the meteorite itself in this case becomes irrelevant > - you're talking about a crater being important, not the irons. And > the irons are fairly typical IAB's, chemically very similar to a > number of other irons. > > I think the trouble is that we need clarification when making such a > list because, as a number of you are saying, we're all just making > lists based on our interpretation of Graham's request. I saw his > question as a demand for a list of meteorites which were of particular > scientific note, and made just such a list - but even I became > sidetracked in my mentioning of the first lunar and martian meteorites > ever recognized, for they fall into the historically, rather than > scientifically important category. Their discovery was of note, but > the meteorites themselves...while not typical, they're nothing too out > of the ordinary. > > So what determines whether or not a meteorite is of scientific > interest? I believe that mentioning things like L'Aigle or Canyon > Diablo in this case is wrong because the meteorites, while they did > cause major shifts in how we see the solar system and how it works, > are relatively ordinary. But beyond that...I believe Greg Hupe had a > good point when he mentioned that there are a great number of > meteorites that are of great scientific interest that are more or less > ignored because they come from NWA. I think it's going to take > looking beyond what we think of as rare, because what we know as > collectors isn't really what's scientifically important. In many > cases, we never get a chance to buy those rocks, and there's good > reason for it. > > I see it in a number of the lists mentioned; at least one person > mentioned Calcalong Creek - without even making note of ALHA81005, the > first recognized lunar meteorite. Why? Calcalong Creek is a rare and > beautiful meteorite, granted, but is it particularly scientifically > important? No. But - it was the first lunar meteorite available to > the public. > > Rocks like Graves Nunataks (GRA) 06128 and 06129, like NWA 011, > Ibitira, Semarkona, Kaidun - they do much more individually to further > our knowledge of the solar system. I couldn't make a list of ten, > because saying which unique meteorite or trait of a particular > meteorite holds greater importance isn't something I see as > rewarding...thinking about it just makes me realize how fortunate we > are to be able to actually collect and touch these pieces of the very > distant past. > > Regards, > Jason > > On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at 7:03 PM, Sterling K. Webb > wrote: > >> Dear Jason, List, >> >> >>> Canyon Diablo... helped us to understand impact dynamics >>> but as to how that plays into our understanding of the >>> evolution of the solar system...it doesn't, really. >>> >> Prior to the assertion that Meteor Crater was an impact >> feature, the concept of "impact" as a possible event was >> nil, non-existent, and when proposed was widely denied, >> pooh-pooh'ed -- an affront to the orderly and rational >> natural world. >> >> Barringer conceived of the crater as what we would call >> a particularly large impact pit, not an explosive crater, but >> the evidence drew him that way. Nininger was really the >> first to understand the possibility of impact as a geological >> process (without understanding the scale on which it was >> possible) and that understanding led straight to the late Gene >> Shoemaker, who single-handedly pushed a planet full of >> resistant scientists into the realization by patiently rubbing >> their noses in it for decades. >> >> Shoemaker's 1960 paper ending the 70-year dispute about >> the origin of Meteor Crater caused a sensation in geology, >> as it was the first definitive proof of an extraterrestrial impact >> on the Earth's surface. This was the first crater "proved" to be >> of impact origin. Proving that impact was a fundamental >> geological process would take decades longer. Paradigms >> don't always shift quickly. >> >> In the 1950's, the only cratered body known to science >> was the Moon, so presumably craters were an odd or >> unique feature in the Solar System, an individual characteristic >> of the Moon, not of planetary bodies generally. It was virtually >> universally understood that the 1000's of craters that covered >> the Moon were volcanic features. Our exploration of the Moon >> was substantially biased toward finding (mostly non-existent) >> evidence of volcanic activity. >> >> Even the first photos of craters on Mars in 1965 by Mariner 4 >> did not budge that mindset much. This was one of those >> you-had-to-be-there moments -- the shock and disbelief caused >> by craters on Mars (and the quivers of denial that followed) >> was profound, like being hit between the eyes with a two-by-four. >> Well, they were probably volcanic craters anyway... >> >> The 1970's competed the change of paradigm and the fact of >> impact as a geological process (the title of the book that nailed it >> down firmly). That almost every body in the Solar System >> with a solid surface is cratered is now a Ho Hum fact. The >> reason that you, Jason, can think it's not important is because >> you are on the "modern" side of the conceptual divide. Until >> the understanding of impact, solar system formation models >> were divided between "accretion" and "coalescence." Very >> few people still believe planets formed like a dew drop any >> more. The change in formation theory walks hand-in-hand >> with impact theory. >> >> If Canyon Diablo was the catalyst for the recognition of >> impact processes in the Solar System -- and I think it was -- >> then it might well be the "most significant in increasing our >> understanding of the evolution of our solar system." >> >> >> Sterling K. Webb >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Jason Utas" >> To: "Meteorite-list" >> Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 5:08 PM >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 most >> scientificallyimportant meteorites? >> >> >> Hola All, >> I would have to respectfully disagree. The original post my Graham >> asked for a list of ten of "the most important meteorites with regard >> to science," and he then went on to ask: "Which ones have been the >> most significant in increasing our understanding of the evolution of >> our solar system, and what they have taught us?" >> I believe that the implication of his email was not to ask for a list >> of meteorites that helped to further our acceptance of meteoritics as >> a field, but rather to obtain a list of the ten most scientifically >> interesting meteorites. And, to be perfectly frank, if L'Aigle had >> been any other type (iron, stony-iron, etc), the outcome of the >> situation would have been the same. As a meteorite, while it did help >> to open our eyes as to what was actually out there, it did little to >> tell us of the history of the formation of the solar system. >> And Michael's list is more of a list of the most beautiful/interesting >> meteorites from the point of view of a collector...it's just a >> different sort of list. Did Esquel or Sylacouga contribute to our >> knowledge about the early solar system? Not particularly, but they >> are two of the more desireable meteorites around, for non-scientific >> reasons. Canyon Diablo is interesting in its own right as a >> crater-forming meteorite, as it helped us to understand impact >> dynamics - but as to how that plays into our understanding of the >> evolution of the solar system...it doesn't, really. >> Regards, >> Jason >> >> >> On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at 1:21 PM, Michael Blood wrote: >> >>> Hi Jason and all, >>> First of all, I think it should be mentioned that any such >>> List is inevitably biased. >>> Next, that said list cannot possibly "nail" a specific 10 >>> meteorites. >>> Assuming these two prospects are accepted, here are 10 >>> Very respectable meteorites that would certainly merit full >>> Consideration in comprising such a list ( and at least one "why" >>> Per each: >>> >>> 1) Canyon Diablo: >>> prototypical and stable iron from what was >>> recognized as the "only" impact crater for a very long time. It >>> Can be added that it was also the original site of the Nininger >>> Museum >>> >>> 2) Allende: HUGE strewn field and, at the time, more than >>> Doubled the total weight of known CR material available. >>> It was also a witnessed fall with multiple hammer stones >>> Striking homes and patios >>> >>> 3) Esquel: "The queen of the Pallasites" with fantastic color, >>> Translucency, freedom from rust and in quantities large enough >>> To allow any collector to have one of the few stable Pallasites. >>> >>> 4) Murchison: Providing most of the amino acids that comprise the >>> "building blocks" of life, perhaps the most "studied" of any meteorite >>> Ever and a major contributor to the angiosperm hypothesis. Again, >>> a witnessed fall and a hammer. >>> >>> 5) Portalas Valley: Perhaps a surprise in many lists, this specimen has >>> A unique physiology. Also a hammer. >>> >>> 6) Weston: The first scientifically recognized meteorite in "the new >>> world." >>> Also a hammer. >>> >>> 7. L'Aigle: see below. (Also, there will be a forthcoming article on the >>> Status of L'Aigle as a hammer). >>> >>> 8) Ensischeim: "The meteorite from hell." (also a hammer if you care to >>> consider a church courtyard a man made artifact). This is one of the >>> richest >>> events ever in the "lore" of meteorites. >>> >>> 9) Sikhote-Aline: producing thousands of what are pretty much agreed to >>> be >>> the world's most visually impressive iron individuals. Also a rare Iron >>> witnessed fall. >>> >>> 10) Sylacauga: the only fully documented human striking meteorite. >>> >>> I could easily add several more, but these are just my 2 cents >>> worth, anyway. I am likely wrong, as my wife repeatedly assures me >>> I am. >>> Best wishes, Michael >>> >>> >>> On 2/14/09 4:59 AM, "Martin Altmann" wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Hi Jason, >>>> >>>> Even though we're living in a fast world and the "modernism" of our days >>>> may >>>> give the impression, that new scientific recoveries are drawn out of the >>>> nothing. >>>> But science and ideas are always integrated in traditions and contexts >>>> and >>>> are built on earlier steps. >>>> Chladni hadn't invented the idea, that the stones may stem from outside. >>>> He connected the idea that they come from space with the fireballs, the >>>> existing stones and reports about the falls and postulated additionally, >>>> that they could survive the atmospheric travel. >>>> That approach was ridiculous for his contemporary scientists. >>>> After the period of "enlightment" it was impossible that chunks fall >>>> from >>>> sky, Newton required empty spaces between the planets or at it best, >>>> cause >>>> they were Aristotelians, they had to be atmospheric products. >>>> (Although Tycho had measured long before the parallaxes of comets, to >>>> find >>>> out that they move indeed in space). >>>> >>>> So Chladni's weird theory never would have been accepted, if there >>>> wouldn't >>>> have happened that proof, the mighty shower of L'Aigle, conveniently >>>> close >>>> to the Acad?mie de sciences. >>>> >>>> Therefore L'Aigle is for me a benchmark. Without L'Aigle no Chladni, no >>>> Schreibers, no Daubr?e...no modern meteoritics. (At least not to the >>>> advanced stage we have today). >>>> >>>> Shhht Jason, btw. Chladni isn't that much known as Father of >>>> meteoritics, >>>> but for his "Acoustics", he certainly is partially responsible for the >>>> gig >>>> tootling out from your speakers, while you're writing to the list :-) >>>> >>>> Sure it's only an ordinary chondrite, but you don't meet the meaning of >>>> this >>>> milestone, if you look with today's eyes on it. >>>> >>>> >>>>> It's an ordinary chondrite, of which there are thousands >>>>> >>>> Which gives in fact to that class an especially high scientific >>>> importance, >>>> doesn't it? The chondrites conserved the most original information about >>>> the >>>> origin of our solar system, the processes who lead to the formation of >>>> planets and they resemble much more the stuff we are all made from, than >>>> any >>>> differentiated meteorite, which tells us rather the history and >>>> development >>>> of his individual parent body. And ready we aren't yet with the >>>> chondrites. >>>> Ho many theories of chondrules genesis we have at present? Eleven? >>>> Look the recent decade, the discovery of protoplanetary discs around >>>> other >>>> stars..... and so on. >>>> Only because they are so readily available to the collectors and despite >>>> the >>>> antartcic ones so cheap like never before (yes Mrs.Caroline Smith. >>>> Fletcher, >>>> Hey, check the museum's archives, had to pay much more than you), >>>> they shouldn't be disregarded. >>>> >>>> Hey, and confess Jason! The sight of something like that >>>> http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/36.956g.jpg >>>> doesn't it made your mouth water? >>>> >>>> >>>> Well, each warehouse telescope for 30 bucks is better than that, which >>>> Galilei pointed to the Moon or Jupiter. But what for an importance it >>>> had! >>>> Would we have a Hubble Space telescope now, without that use of the >>>> lousy >>>> lense 400 years ago? (Although maybe Galileo's or Copernicus' role is >>>> maybe >>>> sometimes somewhat overrated, media stars... Copernicus' system was in >>>> practise inoperative and he had his Islamic and antique antecessors - >>>> I'm >>>> a >>>> fan of Tycho, which was much more important for modern astronomy and our >>>> view of the world, as he was the first, who trumped the Islamic >>>> astronomy. >>>> Without the results of his large-scale instruments, no Kepler, no >>>> Newton, >>>> no >>>> Oberth, no Rovers on Mars, no security that the pieces in the Chladni >>>> Boxes >>>> really originated from the red planet...). >>>> Of course it's never a continuously direct and mono-causal >>>> development... >>>> Chance and accident are also factors. >>>> Allende and Murchison e.g. never would rank in the importance among the >>>> first places, if they hadn't such large tkws or if they had fallen in >>>> the >>>> oceans and if there the Moon labs weren't just ready, when they felt. >>>> >>>> But in general L'Aigle was the proof. >>>> Scientifically important, because with that fall, the concept of >>>> meteorites >>>> had to be accepted and the branch of this science was born at all. >>>> >>>> So it's my number one - only in my personal opinion of course. >>>> >>>> If we follow your criteria, Jason, everything but the very new had to be >>>> ruled out and most probably we would have to make a ranking of the so >>>> far >>>> unique - the ungrouped and similar exotics, where we don't have fully >>>> the >>>> clues, what exactly it could be. >>>> >>>> Off now, have to jump into my carriage without horses. >>>> (Hmmm was that important? Quite an unacceptable junk... >>>> http://kuerzer.de/unimport >>>> and we certainly would prefer a Lamborghini :-) >>>> >>>> Best! >>>> Martin >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- >>>> Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com >>>> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von >>>> Jason >>>> Utas >>>> Gesendet: Samstag, 14. Februar 2009 02:21 >>>> An: Meteorite-list >>>> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 most >>>> scientificallyimportantmeteorites? >>>> >>>> Hola Martin, >>>> I would have to disagree - when you go that far back, you wind up >>>> dealing with meteorites that are of historic, rather than scientific >>>> interest. L'Aigle may be something of an exception because it did >>>> lead to the *scientific* acceptance of meteorites, but, from today's >>>> scientific perspective, I wouldn't call it very important, never mind >>>> giving it a place in the top ten. It's an ordinary chondrite, of >>>> which there are thousands - it's no more special than, say, Tenham or >>>> Gao - from a purely scientific point of view. >>>> One might as well call the earliest fossils found the most important, >>>> simply because they were found back in the day and led to our >>>> recognition of what they really represented...while they may be >>>> important, I would hesitate to call them extremely important from a >>>> scientific point of view. >>>> Regards, >>>> Jason >>>> >>>> On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 5:12 PM, Martin Altmann >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I choose L'Aigle as N?1. >>>>> >>>>> Cause else they wouldn't have recognized, that Chladni was right and >>>>> that >>>>> they are from space. >>>>> >>>>> Best! >>>>> Martin >>>>> >>>>> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- >>>>> Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com >>>>> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von >>>>> ensoramanda at ntlworld.com >>>>> Gesendet: Samstag, 14. Februar 2009 00:55 >>>>> An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>> Betreff: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 most scientifically >>>>> importantmeteorites? >>>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>> Just thought it might be interesting to discover list members opinions >>>>> on >>>>> what they would choose as the most important meteorites with regard to >>>>> science? Which ones have been the most significant in increasing our >>>>> understanding of the evolution of our solar system, and what they have >>>>> taught us? >>>>> >>>>> Graham Ensor, UK. >>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>>> >>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>>> >>>>> >>>> ______________________________________________ >>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>> >>>> ______________________________________________ >>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>> >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> >>> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> >> > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > -- Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703) 648-6184 US Geological Survey fax: (703) 648-6383 954 National Center Reston, VA 20192, USA From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Sun Feb 15 08:43:41 2009 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 14:43:41 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 most scientificallyimportant meteorites? In-Reply-To: <93aaac890902141936lb788c56ibe27c92eb906346c@mail.gmail.com> References: <93aaac890902141936lb788c56ibe27c92eb906346c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <002201c98f73$6a1aebd0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Hi Jason, Sterling, all, I think we could keep Canyon Diablo also according Jason's requirements in the Top-Ten-List. Even if the establishing of craters as impact products is for some not noteworthy enough, we can keep Canyon Diablo on the list, because of a very important recovery made by researching Canyon Diablo: The determination of the age of the Earth in the 1950ies by the Ur-Pb-dating of Canyon Diablo, done by Patterson. Before, it was totally uncertain, how old Earth could be, because the results were dependent on the assumptions of the different models, and the results ranked from some hundred millions of years to 3 billions. Solely from meteorites we know the rel. exact age of Earth and Solar System, and Canyon Diablo was the first meteorite used for that dating. If that isn't important enough, then I don't know..... >that there are a great number of >meteorites that are of great scientific interest that are more or less >ignored because they come from NWA. Well at the moment we're still in the period of the Big Harvest. I'm very sure that rather sooner than later the desert meteorites will be researched to the same extend than the other meteorites. At the moment the find rates were to high, seen the capacities of the labs and the specialists. Furthermore we have that, seen from the the requirements of research and the huge potential on information, the meteorites bear combined with the incredible low costs for the desert finds, supplied by private initiatives, that terribly silly under-funding of the institutes. And of course these very years a lot of researchers and curators are unsettled by the theatre the Canadians and Australians made and that propaganda of that type like Chennaoui, Smith, Zipfel et.al. are spreading, ignoring the facts. I don't want to play off the different branches. We know all that the cheapest planetary mission can't be realized below 300 millions USD and remote sensoring never will be able to replace the work on the very stones in the labs on Earth. On the other hand we see, that the official expeditions to the hot deserts are by far less efficient, seen the costs, the total find rates and the number of rare types and scientifically most interesting material, than the possibilities the NWA-trade offers. Well and Antarctica is very important, but extremely cost-intensive, 100 millions per year, but the rare and exotic stones alone from NWA already outnumber the Antarctic finds. Therefore it would be not reasonable to do without the desert finds. And imagine, you see it in Australia, there we have 7 new meteorites only in 10 years, found by chance and by scientific expeditions, you see it in Libya, where it's even more dramatic, you see it in Oman, which gives permissions only to the Suisse-coop, which are among the official expeditions already the most successful, but e.g. they found a single lunar - a single stone, while the private professional hunters found 21 different lunars in hundreds of fragments, and still today the Omani finds are not allowed to be traded to other institutes, so you can imagine, what will happen, if Morocco will be closed. Then Chennaoui and colleagues have to hunt by their own and like the other official teams they will find a handful of ordinary chondrites per year and if they are very lucky here and there a CV3 or an eucrite. Therefore I see two scenarios in future. Either those apostles, who want to ban all private activities will be successful - then the NWAs already found so far will come in the focus of research, simply because there will be recovered almost no meteorites anymore compared to the fat years now. So the universities won't have nothing to research on anymore - and you don't have to forget, that only a few institutes are embedded in the research on Antarctic finds and only a few will be able to cooperate with the NWA-countries. - Already today the exchange between Canadian, Australian, Libyan (is there any at all), Omani institutes is very poor. So the NWAs will automatically come into the focus. Or - second scenario The curators and scientists recognize that the agenda of that group, which propagates to inhibit the trade with material, is not backed by the statistics, the facts and the truth (and that it will lead to heavy restrictions of their work) and that this agenda is a product of missing knowledge. And they will work on the NWAs like on "normal" meteorites and like they did the 200 years before. Today we have already the situation, that e.g. London and also some US-Institutes following a certainly well-intended political correctness are not acquiring NWA-matrial anymore, because they don't know the legal facts and they tend to believe the propaganda of that group. So in fact, these institutes and especially the museums already are neglecting their scientific obligations and conservatory task, because of these false pretences, spread by that group. But that is a minor problem, they only have to read the result of the Casablanca-Meeting, where it was stated that the meteorites from Morocco were perfectly legal. Furthermore the prices of NWA-material and all other meteorites are publically accessible to everyone. Because the meteorite market is exactly the opposite of the "black market" those people are propagating in media, it is very transparent. With the system of the central recording and publishing of all meteorites by the Meteoritical Society, they have always a survey at hand, which material does exist at all and in which quantities. The prices of the last 200 years and the expenses of the institutes and museums are visible the archives and the publications, the expenses and find rates of official expeditions and the Antarctic campaigns, cause it is public money, should be found published too (although with Antarctica I have difficulties to find it in internet. Only here a figure, there a number. 30 millions for Euromet here, 20 Millions for NIPR there, 70 millions a year for fuel and stuff for McMurdo...) So it's for everyone evident, that NWA isn't only a blessing for science but that they are by far the most cost-effective way to do research about out solar system. You know, Argentina, now Poland... these laws are made by politicians, who got alerted by the propaganda of people like Schmitt&Smith. They read about black market, drug dealers, weapon spivs, they are stuffed with the prices of the lunaites of the 90ies and they get served a grotesque distortion of the quantities of material. Gosh, do I expect to much, if I ask, that a Chennaoui a Smith takes themselves only once that hour time to check the tkws in the Bulletin database? I mean, meteorites are their profession and they are even so lucky to be paid for their passion. The highest of high of non-OCs, the eucrites, were you have to pick up first hundreds of chondrites, 40kg from Antarctica in 30+ years, 100kgs from NWA and other deserts in 20 years...... And if they expose theirselves in that way, couldn't we expect, that they spend altogether 2 days for getting a survey or an impression of meteorite pricing? Each newbie among the laymen coming to meteorites is able to check these stats and facts. And naturally politicians, cause they have no insight, they say eeeeeeeek sounds dangerous, let's make a law. But how would they react, if you tell them the find rates of Antarctica and universitary expeditions and their costs? If you'd tell them the costs of space flight and earth-bound research in the neighboured subjects? And if you'd tell them in the end. that the complete annual output of the deserts, exceeding all other ways of getting this desired and highly relevant material by weight, by numbers, by weight, by most interesting and important finds, that this output is completely available at costs, which do not exceed the costs for 3 or 4 common research projects on of a department 3 or 4 mid-sized universities? (For that, what is spend for 1 week Antarctic search, they could have the complete masses of 5 or 6 different lunars - and lunars are by far already the most expensive stuff -) That is the true beef. So it is simply completely unreasonable not to research or not to acquire desert finds additionally to the material found by official campaigns (and perhaps also somewhat unjustifiable towards the public, which has to pay the latter). And that's why I have not the slightest doubts, that NWA will play their role in future. Only a little patience is necessary. Back from the digression. Only for my taste - I would replace Ensisheim by Elbogen. Elbogen felt earlier, the legends are recorded. Ensisheim hadn't that impact, even young Wolfgang v.Goethe still made jokes about the funny aborigines, who believed that the chunk in the church had fallen from sky. And Widmannstaetter used Elbogen to print his famous Thomson-structures. Happy Sunday! Martin -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Jason Utas Gesendet: Sonntag, 15. Februar 2009 04:37 An: Meteorite-list Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 most scientificallyimportant meteorites? Hello Graham, Sterling, John, Jeff, Walter, Rob, All, With regards to Sterling's point - true enough, but that's taking the historical angle again - we didn't believe that impact craters existed, we find a crater surrounded by meteorites, and eventually enough research added up to prove that it was indeed an impact crater. But this could have been done at any other crater that wasn't badly eroded...it's like L'Aigle in the sense that you're talking about a paradigm shift that could have been caused by any meteorite, any crater. In fact, the meteorite itself in this case becomes irrelevant - you're talking about a crater being important, not the irons. And the irons are fairly typical IAB's, chemically very similar to a number of other irons. I think the trouble is that we need clarification when making such a list because, as a number of you are saying, we're all just making lists based on our interpretation of Graham's request. I saw his question as a demand for a list of meteorites which were of particular scientific note, and made just such a list - but even I became sidetracked in my mentioning of the first lunar and martian meteorites ever recognized, for they fall into the historically, rather than scientifically important category. Their discovery was of note, but the meteorites themselves...while not typical, they're nothing too out of the ordinary. So what determines whether or not a meteorite is of scientific interest? I believe that mentioning things like L'Aigle or Canyon Diablo in this case is wrong because the meteorites, while they did cause major shifts in how we see the solar system and how it works, are relatively ordinary. But beyond that...I believe Greg Hupe had a good point when he mentioned that there are a great number of meteorites that are of great scientific interest that are more or less ignored because they come from NWA. I think it's going to take looking beyond what we think of as rare, because what we know as collectors isn't really what's scientifically important. In many cases, we never get a chance to buy those rocks, and there's good reason for it. I see it in a number of the lists mentioned; at least one person mentioned Calcalong Creek - without even making note of ALHA81005, the first recognized lunar meteorite. Why? Calcalong Creek is a rare and beautiful meteorite, granted, but is it particularly scientifically important? No. But - it was the first lunar meteorite available to the public. Rocks like Graves Nunataks (GRA) 06128 and 06129, like NWA 011, Ibitira, Semarkona, Kaidun - they do much more individually to further our knowledge of the solar system. I couldn't make a list of ten, because saying which unique meteorite or trait of a particular meteorite holds greater importance isn't something I see as rewarding...thinking about it just makes me realize how fortunate we are to be able to actually collect and touch these pieces of the very distant past. Regards, Jason On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at 7:03 PM, Sterling K. Webb wrote: > Dear Jason, List, > >> Canyon Diablo... helped us to understand impact dynamics >> but as to how that plays into our understanding of the >> evolution of the solar system...it doesn't, really. > > Prior to the assertion that Meteor Crater was an impact > feature, the concept of "impact" as a possible event was > nil, non-existent, and when proposed was widely denied, > pooh-pooh'ed -- an affront to the orderly and rational > natural world. > > Barringer conceived of the crater as what we would call > a particularly large impact pit, not an explosive crater, but > the evidence drew him that way. Nininger was really the > first to understand the possibility of impact as a geological > process (without understanding the scale on which it was > possible) and that understanding led straight to the late Gene > Shoemaker, who single-handedly pushed a planet full of > resistant scientists into the realization by patiently rubbing > their noses in it for decades. > > Shoemaker's 1960 paper ending the 70-year dispute about > the origin of Meteor Crater caused a sensation in geology, > as it was the first definitive proof of an extraterrestrial impact > on the Earth's surface. This was the first crater "proved" to be > of impact origin. Proving that impact was a fundamental > geological process would take decades longer. Paradigms > don't always shift quickly. > > In the 1950's, the only cratered body known to science > was the Moon, so presumably craters were an odd or > unique feature in the Solar System, an individual characteristic > of the Moon, not of planetary bodies generally. It was virtually > universally understood that the 1000's of craters that covered > the Moon were volcanic features. Our exploration of the Moon > was substantially biased toward finding (mostly non-existent) > evidence of volcanic activity. > > Even the first photos of craters on Mars in 1965 by Mariner 4 > did not budge that mindset much. This was one of those > you-had-to-be-there moments -- the shock and disbelief caused > by craters on Mars (and the quivers of denial that followed) > was profound, like being hit between the eyes with a two-by-four. > Well, they were probably volcanic craters anyway... > > The 1970's competed the change of paradigm and the fact of > impact as a geological process (the title of the book that nailed it > down firmly). That almost every body in the Solar System > with a solid surface is cratered is now a Ho Hum fact. The > reason that you, Jason, can think it's not important is because > you are on the "modern" side of the conceptual divide. Until > the understanding of impact, solar system formation models > were divided between "accretion" and "coalescence." Very > few people still believe planets formed like a dew drop any > more. The change in formation theory walks hand-in-hand > with impact theory. > > If Canyon Diablo was the catalyst for the recognition of > impact processes in the Solar System -- and I think it was -- > then it might well be the "most significant in increasing our > understanding of the evolution of our solar system." > > > Sterling K. Webb > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jason Utas" > To: "Meteorite-list" > Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 5:08 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 most > scientificallyimportant meteorites? > > > Hola All, > I would have to respectfully disagree. The original post my Graham > asked for a list of ten of "the most important meteorites with regard > to science," and he then went on to ask: "Which ones have been the > most significant in increasing our understanding of the evolution of > our solar system, and what they have taught us?" > I believe that the implication of his email was not to ask for a list > of meteorites that helped to further our acceptance of meteoritics as > a field, but rather to obtain a list of the ten most scientifically > interesting meteorites. And, to be perfectly frank, if L'Aigle had > been any other type (iron, stony-iron, etc), the outcome of the > situation would have been the same. As a meteorite, while it did help > to open our eyes as to what was actually out there, it did little to > tell us of the history of the formation of the solar system. > And Michael's list is more of a list of the most beautiful/interesting > meteorites from the point of view of a collector...it's just a > different sort of list. Did Esquel or Sylacouga contribute to our > knowledge about the early solar system? Not particularly, but they > are two of the more desireable meteorites around, for non-scientific > reasons. Canyon Diablo is interesting in its own right as a > crater-forming meteorite, as it helped us to understand impact > dynamics - but as to how that plays into our understanding of the > evolution of the solar system...it doesn't, really. > Regards, > Jason > > > On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at 1:21 PM, Michael Blood wrote: >> Hi Jason and all, >> First of all, I think it should be mentioned that any such >> List is inevitably biased. >> Next, that said list cannot possibly "nail" a specific 10 >> meteorites. >> Assuming these two prospects are accepted, here are 10 >> Very respectable meteorites that would certainly merit full >> Consideration in comprising such a list ( and at least one "why" >> Per each: >> >> 1) Canyon Diablo: >> prototypical and stable iron from what was >> recognized as the "only" impact crater for a very long time. It >> Can be added that it was also the original site of the Nininger >> Museum >> >> 2) Allende: HUGE strewn field and, at the time, more than >> Doubled the total weight of known CR material available. >> It was also a witnessed fall with multiple hammer stones >> Striking homes and patios >> >> 3) Esquel: "The queen of the Pallasites" with fantastic color, >> Translucency, freedom from rust and in quantities large enough >> To allow any collector to have one of the few stable Pallasites. >> >> 4) Murchison: Providing most of the amino acids that comprise the >> "building blocks" of life, perhaps the most "studied" of any meteorite >> Ever and a major contributor to the angiosperm hypothesis. Again, >> a witnessed fall and a hammer. >> >> 5) Portalas Valley: Perhaps a surprise in many lists, this specimen has >> A unique physiology. Also a hammer. >> >> 6) Weston: The first scientifically recognized meteorite in "the new >> world." >> Also a hammer. >> >> 7. L'Aigle: see below. (Also, there will be a forthcoming article on the >> Status of L'Aigle as a hammer). >> >> 8) Ensischeim: "The meteorite from hell." (also a hammer if you care to >> consider a church courtyard a man made artifact). This is one of the >> richest >> events ever in the "lore" of meteorites. >> >> 9) Sikhote-Aline: producing thousands of what are pretty much agreed to be >> the world's most visually impressive iron individuals. Also a rare Iron >> witnessed fall. >> >> 10) Sylacauga: the only fully documented human striking meteorite. >> >> I could easily add several more, but these are just my 2 cents >> worth, anyway. I am likely wrong, as my wife repeatedly assures me >> I am. >> Best wishes, Michael >> >> >> On 2/14/09 4:59 AM, "Martin Altmann" wrote: >> >>> Hi Jason, >>> >>> Even though we're living in a fast world and the "modernism" of our days >>> may >>> give the impression, that new scientific recoveries are drawn out of the >>> nothing. >>> But science and ideas are always integrated in traditions and contexts >>> and >>> are built on earlier steps. >>> Chladni hadn't invented the idea, that the stones may stem from outside. >>> He connected the idea that they come from space with the fireballs, the >>> existing stones and reports about the falls and postulated additionally, >>> that they could survive the atmospheric travel. >>> That approach was ridiculous for his contemporary scientists. >>> After the period of "enlightment" it was impossible that chunks fall from >>> sky, Newton required empty spaces between the planets or at it best, >>> cause >>> they were Aristotelians, they had to be atmospheric products. >>> (Although Tycho had measured long before the parallaxes of comets, to >>> find >>> out that they move indeed in space). >>> >>> So Chladni's weird theory never would have been accepted, if there >>> wouldn't >>> have happened that proof, the mighty shower of L'Aigle, conveniently >>> close >>> to the Acad?mie de sciences. >>> >>> Therefore L'Aigle is for me a benchmark. Without L'Aigle no Chladni, no >>> Schreibers, no Daubr?e...no modern meteoritics. (At least not to the >>> advanced stage we have today). >>> >>> Shhht Jason, btw. Chladni isn't that much known as Father of meteoritics, >>> but for his "Acoustics", he certainly is partially responsible for the >>> gig >>> tootling out from your speakers, while you're writing to the list :-) >>> >>> Sure it's only an ordinary chondrite, but you don't meet the meaning of >>> this >>> milestone, if you look with today's eyes on it. >>> >>>> It's an ordinary chondrite, of which there are thousands >>> >>> Which gives in fact to that class an especially high scientific >>> importance, >>> doesn't it? The chondrites conserved the most original information about >>> the >>> origin of our solar system, the processes who lead to the formation of >>> planets and they resemble much more the stuff we are all made from, than >>> any >>> differentiated meteorite, which tells us rather the history and >>> development >>> of his individual parent body. And ready we aren't yet with the >>> chondrites. >>> Ho many theories of chondrules genesis we have at present? Eleven? >>> Look the recent decade, the discovery of protoplanetary discs around >>> other >>> stars..... and so on. >>> Only because they are so readily available to the collectors and despite >>> the >>> antartcic ones so cheap like never before (yes Mrs.Caroline Smith. >>> Fletcher, >>> Hey, check the museum's archives, had to pay much more than you), >>> they shouldn't be disregarded. >>> >>> Hey, and confess Jason! The sight of something like that >>> http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/36.956g.jpg >>> doesn't it made your mouth water? >>> >>> >>> Well, each warehouse telescope for 30 bucks is better than that, which >>> Galilei pointed to the Moon or Jupiter. But what for an importance it >>> had! >>> Would we have a Hubble Space telescope now, without that use of the lousy >>> lense 400 years ago? (Although maybe Galileo's or Copernicus' role is >>> maybe >>> sometimes somewhat overrated, media stars... Copernicus' system was in >>> practise inoperative and he had his Islamic and antique antecessors - I'm >>> a >>> fan of Tycho, which was much more important for modern astronomy and our >>> view of the world, as he was the first, who trumped the Islamic >>> astronomy. >>> Without the results of his large-scale instruments, no Kepler, no Newton, >>> no >>> Oberth, no Rovers on Mars, no security that the pieces in the Chladni >>> Boxes >>> really originated from the red planet...). >>> Of course it's never a continuously direct and mono-causal development... >>> Chance and accident are also factors. >>> Allende and Murchison e.g. never would rank in the importance among the >>> first places, if they hadn't such large tkws or if they had fallen in the >>> oceans and if there the Moon labs weren't just ready, when they felt. >>> >>> But in general L'Aigle was the proof. >>> Scientifically important, because with that fall, the concept of >>> meteorites >>> had to be accepted and the branch of this science was born at all. >>> >>> So it's my number one - only in my personal opinion of course. >>> >>> If we follow your criteria, Jason, everything but the very new had to be >>> ruled out and most probably we would have to make a ranking of the so far >>> unique - the ungrouped and similar exotics, where we don't have fully the >>> clues, what exactly it could be. >>> >>> Off now, have to jump into my carriage without horses. >>> (Hmmm was that important? Quite an unacceptable junk... >>> http://kuerzer.de/unimport >>> and we certainly would prefer a Lamborghini :-) >>> >>> Best! >>> Martin >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- >>> Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com >>> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Jason >>> Utas >>> Gesendet: Samstag, 14. Februar 2009 02:21 >>> An: Meteorite-list >>> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 most >>> scientificallyimportantmeteorites? >>> >>> Hola Martin, >>> I would have to disagree - when you go that far back, you wind up >>> dealing with meteorites that are of historic, rather than scientific >>> interest. L'Aigle may be something of an exception because it did >>> lead to the *scientific* acceptance of meteorites, but, from today's >>> scientific perspective, I wouldn't call it very important, never mind >>> giving it a place in the top ten. It's an ordinary chondrite, of >>> which there are thousands - it's no more special than, say, Tenham or >>> Gao - from a purely scientific point of view. >>> One might as well call the earliest fossils found the most important, >>> simply because they were found back in the day and led to our >>> recognition of what they really represented...while they may be >>> important, I would hesitate to call them extremely important from a >>> scientific point of view. >>> Regards, >>> Jason >>> >>> On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 5:12 PM, Martin Altmann >>> wrote: >>>> I choose L'Aigle as N?1. >>>> >>>> Cause else they wouldn't have recognized, that Chladni was right and >>>> that >>>> they are from space. >>>> >>>> Best! >>>> Martin >>>> >>>> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- >>>> Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com >>>> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von >>>> ensoramanda at ntlworld.com >>>> Gesendet: Samstag, 14. Februar 2009 00:55 >>>> An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>> Betreff: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 most scientifically >>>> importantmeteorites? >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> Just thought it might be interesting to discover list members opinions >>>> on >>>> what they would choose as the most important meteorites with regard to >>>> science? Which ones have been the most significant in increasing our >>>> understanding of the evolution of our solar system, and what they have >>>> taught us? >>>> >>>> Graham Ensor, UK. >>>> ______________________________________________ >>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>> >>>> ______________________________________________ >>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>> >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu Sun Feb 15 08:49:49 2009 From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu (lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 06:49:49 -0700 (MST) Subject: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 most scientificallyimportant meteorites? In-Reply-To: <4998102C.5040003@usgs.gov> References: <93aaac890902141936lb788c56ibe27c92eb906346c@mail.gmail.com> <012e01c98f4a$fa151f90$6151e146@ATARIENGINE> <4998102C.5040003@usgs.gov> Message-ID: <59739.71.226.60.25.1234705789.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> Jeff and all: You reminded me of the importance of certain meteorites to the study of asteroids. It was a near infrared spectrum of Orgueil and then Murchison that led to the discovery of water of hydration on C-class asteroids and made a very important connection between the "primitive" asteroids and carbonaceous meteorites. This work is still going on today thanks to those early spectra, including the Dawn mission to Vesta and Ceres. Larry On Sun, February 15, 2009 5:53 am, Jeff Grossman wrote: > [retransmit of message that didn't seem to go through] > > > I can speak to the subject of chondrites and what they tell us about the > very early solar system. I read the question in the present tense: what > ARE the most important meteorites [today]. > > > Among ordinary chondrites, there is one meteorite that is clearly the > most important to current research: Semarkona. It is the least > metamorphosed ordinary chondrite and best preserves the pre-accretionary > record. NASA ADS lists >50 references that mention it in the abstract > since the year 2000. If you want to study primitive OCs, you study this > one if you can get it. Nothing else is close. > > Among carbonaceous chondrites, there are several: > > > Acfer 094 has seen almost no thermal metamorphism and almost no aqueous > alteration, an extreme rarity among carbonaceous chondrites. It too is a > hotly studied meteorite. 50 references since 2000. > > Murchison is still probably the king of CM chondrites. Although heavily > altered by water, none of the CMs have seen much heating, and they still > retain a good record of nebular and presolar processes. By virtue of its > large recovered mass, and the high content of organic compounds in this > group, it is still widely studied 40 years after the fall. >100 refs > since 2000. > > Although the CV chondrite Allende is now known to be fairly altered and > somewhat metamorphosed, no meteorite is studied as much, even today, with > >350 refs since 2000. It is especially important for what it tells > us about CAI formation. Another CV, Vigarano, also sees a lot of research > because it is less messed up than Allende (>50 refs since 2000) and has a > large mass in collections. > > The fairly massive CI chondrite Orgueil is still the go-to meteorite in > this chemically primitive, unmetamorphosed, but greatly altered group, > especially for studies of organic compounds: >150 refs since 2000. > > Other C chondrites like Renazzo, Isheyevo, and especially Tagish Lake > (>150 refs) are also widely studied. I think Kaidun is also a very > important meteorite due to the incredible diversity of clasts it contains, > but it is hard for researchers to obtain. > > Among enstatite chondrites, it's harder to say which are the most > important. I guess I'd name Yamato 691 and Qingzhen as the most important > primitive ones. They are not widely studied these days. > > So there are 12 of what I think are the most important chondrites. I > probably forgot some too! > > Jeff > > From moutinho at bol.com.br Sun Feb 15 09:10:54 2009 From: moutinho at bol.com.br (=?utf-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Moutinho?=) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 11:10:54 -0300 Subject: [meteorite-list] Campos Sales : WANTED Message-ID: <4998226eca219_60321555555879b41540@winter6.tmail> Hello, I am looking for a 10-25 g slice of Campos Sales meteorite. Let me know if you have any. Regards, Andr? Moutinho IMCA #2731 From moutinho at bol.com.br Sun Feb 15 09:15:36 2009 From: moutinho at bol.com.br (=?utf-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Moutinho?=) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 11:15:36 -0300 Subject: [meteorite-list] VCI Bags: Looking for Message-ID: <49982388b9338_1c5d1555555879b42672@winter15.tmail> Hello, Does anyone know where I can find VCI bags for sale? Regards, Andre From bakers5acres at frontiernet.net Sun Feb 15 11:45:09 2009 From: bakers5acres at frontiernet.net (Jake Baker) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 09:45:09 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Cleaning Meteorites - lichen problem Message-ID: Does anyone have a suggestion about removing lichen from a specimen and discouraging regrowth? How do scientific organizations & museums do it? The specimen is unclassified and assumed to be a stoney, very dense, high silicate, low iron, with lots of olivine. This piece came from the US near the Great Lakes and has green and silver lichen. I've tried dish detergent, vinegar, denture cleaner, peroxide, ultrasonic cleaning, water pick, brushing, and various combinations of these. I've even tried oven drying to discourage regrowth. I'm hesitant to try other chemicals for fear of damaging the piece. I have a feeling balancing the PH will discourage regrowth. Pictures available if needed. Thanks to anyone who answers. From michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com Sun Feb 15 11:57:54 2009 From: michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com (Michael Gilmer) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 08:57:54 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] 10 Most Scientifically Important Meteorites In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <586153.78698.qm@web58407.mail.re3.yahoo.com> I do play a scientist on television, so here goes : 1) Roosevelt County 005 - the only known L6 that weighs 12 grams. 2) Elephant Moraine 83290 - the most obscure LL6 that most people have never heard of. 3) NWA 4293 - set the world aesthetic standard for "wind polish" 4) Campo Del Cielo - gave the Argentines a reason to form jackbooted squads of stormtroopers to comb rock shows. 5) Buzzard Coulee - gave the fine folks in the great white north a way to make a little coin. Eh? 6) Dhofar 491 - is it an H5? Nobody is sure. It's one of only 2 known "H5?" meteorites. 7) Roosevelt County 009 - the other mysterious "H5?" meteorite. Who knew that Roosevelt County was famous for something other than Stuckey's legendary Pecan Log Roll? 8) Andhara - It's taken over 100 years to classify this stone, and the classification still isn't finished. 9) Kaalijarv - the only known Estonian iron. That's worth something. 10) LaPaz Icefield 04644 - scientists are still trying to unlock the mysteries hidden away in this .63 gram piece of relict fusion crust. ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... Message: 4 Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 23:38:35 -0800 (PST) From: greg stanley Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 mostscientifically importantmeteorites? To: "meteoritefinder at yahoo.com" Cc: "meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com" Message-ID: <548822.3804.qm at web52302.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii All: I'm not a scientist but here goes. 1. ALH84001 2. Orgueil 3. Allende 4. Murchison 5. ALHA 81005 6. Tagish Lake 7. Abee 8. D'Orbigny 9. Canyon Diablo 10. Esquel Greg Stanley From epgrondine at yahoo.com Sun Feb 15 12:15:06 2009 From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 09:15:06 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] 10 most scientifically significant meteorites Message-ID: <876274.84173.qm@web36902.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi Sterling, all - "Paradigms don't always shift quickly." That's certainly something of an understatement. The entire discussion of the issue of scientific value of meteorites has been influenced by bad wording. The value is determined by the value of the problem or question answered. You have scientifically significant meteorites, where the meteorite first led to or confirmed an important theory, and then you have importance to theoretical framework. Not surprisingly, no one here mentioned the KT fossil meteorite, which confirmed that it was a comet rather than an asteroid which killed the dinosaurs. But then as someone wisely noted, "Paradigms don't always shift quickly." E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas From raremeteorites at yahoo.com Sun Feb 15 12:35:46 2009 From: raremeteorites at yahoo.com (Adam Hupe) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 09:35:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD-Spectacular Material, New Meteorite and More Message-ID: <503923.42098.qm@web30701.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dear List Members, This week, I would like to take the opportunity to announce a new Lodranite, NWA 5410, and highlight some fantastic items that will be ending at auction throughout the week. I posted a lot of new items including some highly collectable specimens so it will definitely be worth a look. Click below to see some great auctions: http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/raremeteorites!_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZQQ_mdoZ Five pieces are all that remain of this Low TKW traditional Lodranite, the rest, including the main mass has already been sold within a few days at a most reasonable price: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200309257209 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200309258313 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140300936617 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140300937164 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200309255181 The only completely crusted and oriented Tamdakht/Tishka that I know of started at just 99 cents! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200309668820 Only four pieces remain of Northwest Africa 5000 Lunar slices with great surface area at the very low show price. Get it while you can: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140300548379 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140300738952 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200308858668 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200308859006 Remaining specimens of Dhofar 910 Lunar meteorite sale priced! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140300738245 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140300738345 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140300738444 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200308857392 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200308857565 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140300738717 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200308858034 Four different generous sized Lunar meteorite specimens started at just 99 cents! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140300537225 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140300537641 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200308478434 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200308479323 Awesome Sikhote Alins Holed/Oriented/Cratered or Sculptural. These are the best I could find at the Tucson show. There was very little to choose from compared with other years and the prices are going way up. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140300743228 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140300742557 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200308863668 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140300740856 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200308861479 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140300740086 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200308860354 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200309667545 Collection specimens can be found at this link: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140301167954 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200309660218 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140301169202 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200309664689 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140301171139 And Many More Examples Worth Looking at Can Be Found at This Link: http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/raremeteorites!_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZQQ_mdoZ Thank you for looking and if you are bidding, good luck. Best Regards, ------------------------------------ Adam Hupe The Hupe Collection Team LunarRock IMCA 2185 raremeteorites at yahoo.com From epgrondine at yahoo.com Sun Feb 15 12:51:51 2009 From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 09:51:51 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] What are the top 10 most scientifically important meteorites? Message-ID: <602182.38299.qm@web36903.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi Jason, all - "Rocks like Graves Nunataks (GRA) 06128 and 06129, like NWA 011, Ibitira, Semarkona, Kaidun - they do much more individually to further our knowledge of the solar system." - Jason The significance or "value" of all knowledge lies in its worth to humans. There is no measure other than people: value is the result of valuing, just as price is the result of sale. Thus the meteorite(s) that demonstrated to Europeans that accretion was still occurring is number one (and two). The meteorites that demonstrated that that accretion could be explosive come next. The meteorite that showed that comets accrete with more power than asteroids is next. As Sagan said, we're all bits of star stuff, so the carbonaceous chondrite meteorites which demonstrated that follow. The knowledge of the formation of our solar system has use in our power and energy systems, so some of the primitive chondrites follow. E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas From darryl at dof3.com Sun Feb 15 13:25:17 2009 From: darryl at dof3.com (Darryl Pitt) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 13:25:17 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Might Something Need To Be Done Department Message-ID: It seems odd, does it not, that the single most researched meteorite (Allende) sells for only $10/g? From cynapse at charter.net Sun Feb 15 13:32:57 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 13:32:57 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Might Something Need To Be Done Department In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 13:25:17 -0500, you wrote: > > >It seems odd, does it not, that the single most researched meteorite >(Allende) sells for only $10/g? Again, with the "should be made more expensive" (as in, something done)? Allende shows (from one source) a TKW of 2,000 kilos. If we had a 2,000 kilo recovered Chassignite or Bencubbinite or Lunar or confirmabily cometary fall, they'd go for $10 a gram (or less) too. From darryl at dof3.com Sun Feb 15 13:46:26 2009 From: darryl at dof3.com (Darryl Pitt) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 13:46:26 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Might Something Need To Be Done Department In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20B03F9E-FBD7-426D-84B1-3EB1E1E49DCA@dof3.com> Point well taken, Darren, but there are OCs with exceedingly large TKWs which are comparably priced. This is just one-of-those aberrations that I imagine will soon be adjusted; I believe it's inevitable. On Feb 15, 2009, at 1:32 PM, Darren Garrison wrote: > On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 13:25:17 -0500, you wrote: >> >> >> It seems odd, does it not, that the single most researched meteorite >> (Allende) sells for only $10/g? > > Again, with the "should be made more expensive" (as in, something > done)? > > Allende shows (from one source) a TKW of 2,000 kilos. If we had a > 2,000 kilo > recovered Chassignite or Bencubbinite or Lunar or confirmabily > cometary fall, > they'd go for $10 a gram (or less) too. > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Sun Feb 15 14:39:06 2009 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 11:39:06 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Fireball Alert: North Central Kentucky..NOW SE KY London In-Reply-To: <399786.69981.qm@web53201.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <310841.68086.qm@web55205.mail.re4.yahoo.com> I've spent several hours going over internet forums, scanner reports, etc. and the preponderance of sonic boom reports are coming from London, KY. Some reports from Richmond, KY to the North of London. Visual Observers have been mentioned from Southern Ohio, Central Kentucky, Middle Tennessee, and Western South Carolina. Those with detail seem to confirm this was a steeply vertical track. Based on what I have gleaned, and trying to be conservative, nothing thus far precludes that this could have been a meteorite dropping fireball. When/if we get satellite observation data please give me a heads up. If any list member has contact with the Canadian official who is privy to USAF data please give them call. London is on Interstate 75 near the Tennessee state line North of Jelico, TN west of Middlesboro, KY. South of Lexington KY. I am about 100 miles away in Knoxville. I'm putting together a resource pack to take to the London Corbin area Tuesday. If anyone is headed to the area please let me know so we can coordinate. Elton (Thanks Dirk, Kevin, George) From michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com Sun Feb 15 16:42:29 2009 From: michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com (Michael Gilmer) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 13:42:29 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Anomalous UNWA stone classification update In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <589899.77060.qm@web58403.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Greetings Listoids and Listettes! The Saga of the Anomalous UNWA stone continues.... Several months back, I bought a bulk lot of UNWA meteorites from Derik Bower and the runt of the litter is turning out to be the star of the lot. :) It's a 127 gram weathered stone that is an oblong fragment and it had a unusual feature showing through the surface. The crust was long ago sandblasted away, so this was not remnant crust. It appeared to be something inside the meteorite that weathered slower than the surrounding matrix, leaving this odd feature exposed. I don't have a saw, so I mailed it to a knowledgeable friend with a saw. He sliced it open and discovered several veins of metal oxide inside, but apparently no traces of olivine. So, it's not an old desert pallasite, but it may be a heavily-weathered mesosiderite. Or? The stone was unremarkable at first, and the odd feature was not very obvious. It was pass a casual inspection as just another weathered UNWA chondrite - so much so that I didn't bother to photograph it before sending it off. I wasn't expecting to find much of interest inside. Well, it will be in the mail back to me very soon. I am going to have it classified. I'd like to ask the opinion of the group, that based on this description, what class could this meteorite be? Other things worth mentioning that may effect the class - 1) it has strong magnetic attraction 2) it has "one big honkin chondrule" noticeable inside in addition to the oxide veins. (my friend's words) Any guesses? Regards and clear skies, MikeG ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From mail at mhmeteorites.com Sun Feb 15 17:20:52 2009 From: mail at mhmeteorites.com (mail at mhmeteorites.com) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 14:20:52 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD-Lodranite breccia, St-Severin, Belle Plaine, Parnallee, Puerto Lapice Message-ID: <20090215142052.v78dk45v0o0gcwco@webmail.mhmeteorites.com> Here is a listing of a few items that I just added to my website. Two of the items, Puerto Lapice and Parnallee a specimens that I put on sale at greatly reduced prices for quick sale. Be sure to look at the images of the Lodarnite breccia NWA 5488. I hope you enjoy these offerings! PRICES are listed on my website, however, email me for a discount on regularly priced items! Tuxtuac-LL5, fell 10-16-1975 in Mexico. This 12.0 gram slice has been in my collection since 1996. I upgraded to a larger slice and had to let this one go. Campo del Cielo-397 gram complete etched slice with two inclusions. Shows no signs of rust. Nice shape. Saint-Severin-LL6, fell 6-27-1966. Partial 21 gram slice with a bit of fusion crust. The cut is wedged, but shows nice brecciation and is very fresh. Belle Plaine-An attractive L5 from Texas, with Monnig Collection label! Complete 378 gram slice. NWA 5488-Lodranite breccia, 110 grams TKW, found 2008, Morocco. This is really interesting material, both visually (look at the breccia of the cut face) and scientifically. Lodranites are primitive achondrites that evolved through partial melting and melt migration on their parent planet. I only have these 3 thinly-cut slices to offer, much of the mass was sold in Tucson. 9.8 gram complete slice. 8.3 gram complete slice. 2.9 gram partial slice. SALE ITEMS ----------- Puerto Lapice-Eucrite, witnessed fall from Spain, fell 5-10-2007. Only 500 gram TKW on this one. Look at the glossy black fusion crust. Original price was $2500, REDUCED to $1800. 3.35 gram 80%+ complete stone Parnallee-LL3 witnessed fall from India. Fell 2-28-1857. 4.0 gram partial slice originally in my collection. Cut from a piece I obtained through exchange with the Museum of Natural History-London. Original price was $175, REDUCED to $125.00. Shipping is free on orders over $200. PayPal, VISA, and MC accepted. Thanks, Matt Morgan www.mhmeteorites.com From fuzzfoot at comcast.net Sun Feb 15 17:37:07 2009 From: fuzzfoot at comcast.net (Mike Bandli) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 14:37:07 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Cutting Dust Needed: Lunar, Martian, Diogenite, Iron. Message-ID: <20090215223712.7DAD010534@mailwash5.pair.com> I need some cutting dust for a custom project: 1. Lunar meteorite cutting dust - 1 gram to start, but much more if project is successful. 2. Martian meteorite cutting dust - 1 gram to start, but much more if project is successful. 3. Diogenite cutting dust - 1 gram to start, but much more if project is successful. 4. Iron Meteorite cutting dust or fine shavings. Looking for the best price! Please email me privately. Best, Mike Bandli From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com Sun Feb 15 21:38:12 2009 From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 18:38:12 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] ndrali,chad meteorite Message-ID: <413953.28752.qm@web57801.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Good evening list.I just came upon a really interesting meteorite.It is called NDRALI.It was found in 2005 in CHAD.On the african continent.The tkw is 8 kilo's and the mass before cutting is an absolute thumbprinting master piece.You can find it by googeling ndrali.It is classified as an H3.8-5/6.Lots of metal but with alot of breccia islands spread throughout the matrix.It kind of reminds me of the bison,kansas meteorite.I just saw a 19 gram slice on ebay and bought,but on meteorites.be website he has alot of pieces for sale.A very nice?looking meteorite.Has anyone else seen this new beauty? ? Steve R.Arnold,Chicago! http://chicagometeorites.net/ From radio_ranch at yahoo.com Sun Feb 15 21:41:16 2009 From: radio_ranch at yahoo.com (Pat Brown) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 18:41:16 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Might Something Need To Be Done Department In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <75669.80684.qm@web51304.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Darryl and the list, That Allende is the most studied is in part due to luck. In what was one of the best ways to spend our tax dolars, IMNSHO, the USA built a team of the best scientists with the best tools to study the lunar rocks. This team was all dressed up with no rocks to study, and along comes Allende. The question, IMNSHO, is not: Why is Allende so inexpensive?, it is: Why is Murchison is so much more expensive? Murchison TKW 100Kg per the Meteoritical Bulletin Allende TKW >100Kg per the Meteoritical Bulletin Anybody want to sell me some Murchison? Pat Scientific Lifestyle Meteorites --- On Sun, 2/15/09, Darryl Pitt wrote: > From: Darryl Pitt > Subject: [meteorite-list] Might Something Need To Be Done Department > To: " " > Date: Sunday, February 15, 2009, 10:25 AM > It seems odd, does it not, that the single most researched > meteorite (Allende) sells for only $10/g? > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From freequarks at gmail.com Sun Feb 15 21:44:35 2009 From: freequarks at gmail.com (Dark Matter) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 19:44:35 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] looks promising...for something Message-ID: <822da19a0902151844w6f50dd2fjd94baa9b2356940@mail.gmail.com> Texans report fireball in sky, sonic booms -Video shot in Austin, Texas, shows meteor-like object in sky Sunday morning -Fireball sightings, reports of sonic booms come days after satellite collision in space -FAA told U.S. pilots to watch for "falling space debris" -No reports of ground strikes or interference with aircraft, FAA spokesman says (CNN) -- Sonic booms and at least one fireball in the sky were reported in Texas on Sunday, less than a week after two satellites collided in space and a day after the Federal Aviation Administration asked U.S. pilots to watch for "falling space debris," authorities said. http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/02/15/texas.sky.debris/index.html From darryl at dof3.com Sun Feb 15 21:58:32 2009 From: darryl at dof3.com (Darryl Pitt) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 21:58:32 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Might Something Need To Be Done Department In-Reply-To: <75669.80684.qm@web51304.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <75669.80684.qm@web51304.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Pat, I believe that Allende continues to be the most studied meteorite for reasons that are intrinsic to Allende. Also, far more Allende was recovered than initially reported: there is easily more than an order of magnitude more Allende than Murchison. /dp On Feb 15, 2009, at 9:41 PM, Pat Brown wrote: > > Darryl and the list, > > That Allende is the most studied is in part due to luck. In what was > one of the best ways to spend our tax dolars, IMNSHO, the USA built > a team of the best scientists with the best tools to study the lunar > rocks. This team was all dressed up with no rocks to study, and > along comes Allende. > > The question, IMNSHO, is not: Why is Allende so inexpensive?, it is: > Why is Murchison is so much more expensive? > > Murchison TKW 100Kg per the Meteoritical Bulletin > Allende TKW >100Kg per the Meteoritical Bulletin > > Anybody want to sell me some Murchison? > > Pat > Scientific Lifestyle Meteorites > > --- On Sun, 2/15/09, Darryl Pitt wrote: > >> From: Darryl Pitt >> Subject: [meteorite-list] Might Something Need To Be Done Department >> To: " > >" >> Date: Sunday, February 15, 2009, 10:25 AM >> It seems odd, does it not, that the single most researched >> meteorite (Allende) sells for only $10/g? >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From rsvp321 at hotmail.com Sun Feb 15 22:33:11 2009 From: rsvp321 at hotmail.com (Pete Pete) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 22:33:11 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] looks promising...for something In-Reply-To: <822da19a0902151844w6f50dd2fjd94baa9b2356940@mail.gmail.com> References: <822da19a0902151844w6f50dd2fjd94baa9b2356940@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: CNN's video wasn't working for me... Here's another site with video: http://www.news8austin.com/content/top_stories/default.asp?ArID=232081 http://www.news8austin.com/content/top_stories/default.asp?ArID=232081 ---------------------------------------- > Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 19:44:35 -0700 > From: freequarks at gmail.com > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: [meteorite-list] looks promising...for something > > Texans report fireball in sky, sonic booms > > -Video shot in Austin, Texas, shows meteor-like object in sky Sunday morning > -Fireball sightings, reports of sonic booms come days after satellite > collision in space > -FAA told U.S. pilots to watch for "falling space debris" > -No reports of ground strikes or interference with aircraft, FAA spokesman says > > (CNN) -- Sonic booms and at least one fireball in the sky were > reported in Texas on Sunday, less than a week after two satellites > collided in space and a day after the Federal Aviation Administration > asked U.S. pilots to watch for "falling space debris," authorities > said. > > http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/02/15/texas.sky.debris/index.html > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _________________________________________________________________ The new Windows Live Messenger. You don?t want to miss this. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/products/messenger.aspx From cynapse at charter.net Sun Feb 15 22:44:33 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 22:44:33 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] looks promising...for something In-Reply-To: References: <822da19a0902151844w6f50dd2fjd94baa9b2356940@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 22:33:11 -0500, you wrote: > >CNN's video wasn't working for me... > YiYF http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_eJLcGPWTs From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Sun Feb 15 22:45:08 2009 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 19:45:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] looks promising...for something In-Reply-To: <822da19a0902151844w6f50dd2fjd94baa9b2356940@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <758375.61910.qm@web55201.mail.re4.yahoo.com> I believe I've run to ground the space debris/ satellite collision/ Fireball confusion but see no way to get it back into Pandora's Box. What happens on the Internet stays in the Internet! A Notice to AIRMEM(NOTAM) was issued for the expected re-entry of an ISS resupply rocket booster over Alberta Canada for approx 3-3:15 PM Friday 13 Feb. NOTAMS are national/international for aircraft flying into the affected region. This booster was on time but skipped back and finally reentered over the South Atlantic off the West coast of Africa 15 min later. The NOTAM did not immediately expire I forget how long NOTAMs remain in effect. A reporter called the FAA who called the National Weather Service or vice versa regarding a fireball over Kentucky and some mal-informed representative sees the Alberta NOTAM all the while reports of a satellite collision are still creeping across the CNN screen and connects the wrong two plus two. It is picked up by the news wire and suddenly the sky is falling everywhere as parts of the Iridium and Kosmos suddenly start dropping straight down from orbit Wiley Coyote/Hollywood style--Oh yeah and starting barn fires in Lily Kentucky which never stop burning and can't be extinguished. DUH! Back to a general note: we are seeing weekly and monthly spaced major fireballs including large meteorite falls. Statistics tell me that we are only sampling a portion of a much larger asteroidal debris field in crossing earth orbit. Is anyone aware of a more formal study accessing a distant collision in the asteroid belt that has sent a fresh supply of material our way? I surmised a few years ago that Feb also seemed to have a cluster of falls toward the end of the month. Has anyone on the list looked at the fall log or fireball log at Amsmeteors.org for any recurring clusters? Be back later, I am finishing my Kevlar titanium umbrella hard hat. Elton --- On Sun, 2/15/09, Dark Matter wrote: > From: Dark Matter > Subject: [meteorite-list] looks promising...for something > To: "Meteorite List" > Date: Sunday, February 15, 2009, 9:44 PM > Texans report fireball in sky, sonic booms > > -Video shot in Austin, Texas, shows meteor-like object in > sky Sunday morning > -Fireball sightings, reports of sonic booms come days after > satellite > collision in space > -FAA told U.S. pilots to watch for "falling space > debris" > -No reports of ground strikes or interference with > aircraft, FAA spokesman says > > (CNN) -- Sonic booms and at least one fireball in the sky > were > reported in Texas on Sunday, less than a week after two > satellites > collided in space and a day after the Federal Aviation > Administration > asked U.S. pilots to watch for "falling space > debris," authorities > said. > > http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/02/15/texas.sky.debris/index.html > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Sun Feb 15 22:51:35 2009 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 19:51:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] looks promising...for something Message-ID: <26659.47391.qm@web110616.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> I just spoke to Waco news and of course, they know it is satellite debris. They were not interested in hearing the fact that it was a meteorite. Media has this one all messed up. Something large came down in Texas today. Will be on a plane in the morning if something is found. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone Michael On Feb 15, 2009, at 8:45 PM, Mr EMan wrote: I believe I've run to ground the space debris/ satellite collision/ Fireball confusion but see no way to get it back into Pandora's Box. What happens on the Internet stays in the Internet! A Notice to AIRMEM(NOTAM) was issued for the expected re-entry of an ISS resupply rocket booster over Alberta Canada for approx 3-3:15 PM Friday 13 Feb. NOTAMS are national/international for aircraft flying into the affected region. This booster was on time but skipped back and finally reentered over the South Atlantic off the West coast of Africa 15 min later. The NOTAM did not immediately expire I forget how long NOTAMs remain in effect. A reporter called the FAA who called the National Weather Service or vice versa regarding a fireball over Kentucky and some mal-informed representative sees the Alberta NOTAM all the while reports of a satellite collision are still creeping across the CNN screen and connects the wrong two plus two. It is picked up by the news wire and suddenly the sky is falling everywhere as parts of the Iridium and Kosmos suddenly start dropping straight down from orbit Wiley Coyote/Hollywood style--Oh yeah and starting barn fires in Lily Kentucky which never stop burning and can't be extinguished. DUH! Back to a general note: we are seeing weekly and monthly spaced major fireballs including large meteorite falls. Statistics tell me that we are only sampling a portion of a much larger asteroidal debris field in crossing earth orbit. Is anyone aware of a more formal study accessing a distant collision in the asteroid belt that has sent a fresh supply of material our way? I surmised a few years ago that Feb also seemed to have a cluster of falls toward the end of the month. Has anyone on the list looked at the fall log or fireball log at Amsmeteors.org for any recurring clusters? Be back later, I am finishing my Kevlar titanium umbrella hard hat. Elton --- On Sun, 2/15/09, Dark Matter wrote: From: Dark Matter Subject: [meteorite-list] looks promising...for something To: "Meteorite List" Date: Sunday, February 15, 2009, 9:44 PM Texans report fireball in sky, sonic booms -Video shot in Austin, Texas, shows meteor-like object in sky Sunday morning -Fireball sightings, reports of sonic booms come days after satellite collision in space -FAA told U.S. pilots to watch for "falling space debris" -No reports of ground strikes or interference with aircraft, FAA spokesman says (CNN) -- Sonic booms and at least one fireball in the sky were reported in Texas on Sunday, less than a week after two satellites collided in space and a day after the Federal Aviation Administration asked U.S. pilots to watch for "falling space debris," authorities said. http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/02/15/texas.sky.debris/index.html ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mojave_meteorites at cox.net Sun Feb 15 22:54:49 2009 From: mojave_meteorites at cox.net (Rob Matson) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 19:54:49 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] Can't be satellite debris In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi All, Both the entry angle and velocity preclude satellite debris. This was a bolide. --Rob -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com]On Behalf Of Pete Pete Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 7:33 PM To: freequarks at gmail.com; meteoritelist meteoritelist Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] looks promising...for something CNN's video wasn't working for me... Here's another site with video: http://www.news8austin.com/content/top_stories/default.asp?ArID=232081 http://www.news8austin.com/content/top_stories/default.asp?ArID=232081 ---------------------------------------- > Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 19:44:35 -0700 > From: freequarks at gmail.com > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: [meteorite-list] looks promising...for something > > Texans report fireball in sky, sonic booms > > -Video shot in Austin, Texas, shows meteor-like object in sky Sunday morning > -Fireball sightings, reports of sonic booms come days after satellite > collision in space > -FAA told U.S. pilots to watch for "falling space debris" > -No reports of ground strikes or interference with aircraft, FAA spokesman says > > (CNN) -- Sonic booms and at least one fireball in the sky were > reported in Texas on Sunday, less than a week after two satellites > collided in space and a day after the Federal Aviation Administration > asked U.S. pilots to watch for "falling space debris," authorities > said. > > http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/02/15/texas.sky.debris/index.html > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _________________________________________________________________ The new Windows Live Messenger. You don?t want to miss this. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/products/messenger.aspx ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From cynapse at charter.net Sun Feb 15 22:56:56 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 22:56:56 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] looks promising...for something In-Reply-To: <26659.47391.qm@web110616.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <26659.47391.qm@web110616.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 19:51:35 -0800 (PST), you wrote: >I just spoke to Waco news and of course, they know it is satellite debris. They were not interested in hearing the fact that it was a meteorite. >Media has this one all messed up. FWIW, there is a /. discussion on it now (plus a link to the Badastronomy blog http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy) >Sent from my iPhone >Michael We've traced this message, AND IT'S COMING FROM YOUR HOUSE!!! Darren From cynapse at charter.net Sun Feb 15 23:08:11 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 23:08:11 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] looks promising...for something In-Reply-To: <799463.1468.qm@web110606.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <799463.1468.qm@web110606.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I forgot the URL for the /. article: http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/02/15/2241211 From bristolia at yahoo.com Sun Feb 15 23:11:48 2009 From: bristolia at yahoo.com (Paul) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 20:11:48 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Recently Published Papers on Impact Structures and Impactites Message-ID: <850977.59216.qm@web36206.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dear Friends, Below are some recent papers about impact structures and alleged impactites that have appeared. 1. Schmieder, M., E. Buchner, and D. P. LeHeron, 2009, The Jebel Hadid structure (Al Kufrah Basin ,SE Libya)?A possible impact structure and potential hydrocarbon trap? Marine and Petroleum Geology. vol 26. no. 3, pp. 310-318. doi:10.1016/j.marpetgeo.2008.04.003 http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.marpetgeo.2008.04.003 The Jebel Hadid structure is formed in the Nubian Sandstone and located in southern Al Kufrah Basin. It is a 4.7 km circular feature with a set of multiple concentric annular ridges. they suggest "that the Jebel Hadid structure might represent an eroded, complex impact structure' much like the Tin Bider structure in Algeria. Its location is 20? 52' N and 22? 42' E). 2. Ghoneim, E. M., 2008, Ibn-Batutah: A possible simple impact structure in southeastern Libya, a remote sensing study. Geomorphology. vol. 103, no. 3, pp. 341-350. The Ibn-Batutah feature is a circular structure centered on 21? 34? 10? N and 20? 50? 15? E and located in southeastern Libya. It is formed in Nubian Sandstone. http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.geomorph.2008.07.005 http://www.bu.edu/remotesensing/faculty/research/ghoneim/index.html 3. McCall, G. J. H., 2009, Half a century of progress in research on terrestrial impact structures: A review. Earth-Science Reviews. vol 92, no. 3-4, pp. 99-116. http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.earscirev.2008.11.004 4. McCall, G. J. H., in press, The Carbonado diamond conundrum Earth-Science Reviews, In Press, Accepted Manuscript, Available online 13 February 2009. doi:10.1016/j.earscirev.2009.01.002 http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.earscirev.2009.01.002 "The reviewer presents the results of a literature search on the enigmatic occurrences of carbonado; a form (but not the only form) of polycrystalline diamond, which is mined for industrial diamonds." He hypothesizes that "carbonado does stem from terrestrial eruptive processes" and concludes that much research remains to be performed before any conclusions can be reached. 5. Schmieder, M., and E. Buchner, 2007, Short note: The Faya basin (N Chad, Africa) ? A possible impact structure? Journal of African Earth Sciences. vol. 47, pp. 62?68. The Faya basin is an almost circular structure, centered on 18? 10' N and 19? 34' E. It lies about 55 km ENE of the city of Faya (Largeau) and has a diameter of about 2 km." http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.jafrearsci.2006.11.004 http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2007JAfES..47...62S Yours, Paul From searchingforfun at sbcglobal.net Mon Feb 16 01:33:07 2009 From: searchingforfun at sbcglobal.net (Brian Cox) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 22:33:07 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad Sale Meteorites on ebay ending next Sat. Feb 21, and Sunday Feb. 22 Message-ID: <003001c99000$6f12e9c0$4001a8c0@BRIANSCOMPUTER> Hi list, here are a few meteorites ending next Sat. Feb. 21 and Sun. Feb 22 Sahara 99088 Meteorite 49.0g FUSION CRUST IMCA BLACK FUSION CRUST ALL AROUND BEAUTIFUL COA NICE http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=270344829487 McKinney Meteorite Texas 73.2 g TCU IMCA 1870 CRUST1870 Collin County,Texas TCU COA CRUST Rare this size http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=280313455519 Densmore Meteorite Kansas 6.5g IMCA 18791879 Norton County,Kansas Nice L6 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=280313788531 Hammadah al Hamra #183 Meteorite Libya 128.0g IMCA LL61996 Large Beautiful Specimen LL6 Black Fustion Crusthttp://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=280313796935Thanks for looking,BrianIMCA # 6387searchingforfun on ebay From info at tektiteinc.com Sun Feb 15 23:41:50 2009 From: info at tektiteinc.com (info at tektiteinc.com) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 23:41:50 -0500 (EST) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Rizalites ending on Ebay in less than a day! Message-ID: <45352.127.0.0.1.1234759310.squirrel@syd-srv07.ezyreg.com> Hello all, Please have a look at some of my Rizalite listings ending soon on eBay. Thanks for your time. Cheers, Desmond Leong IMCA #2254 http://www.TektiteInc.com http://stores.ebay.com/Tektite-Inc http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZtektiteinc-dot-com From catoni52 at sympatico.ca Sun Feb 15 23:57:31 2009 From: catoni52 at sympatico.ca (catoni52 at sympatico.ca) Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 04:57:31 +0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ten Most Scientifically Important Meteorites Message-ID: Here goes. But I'm not going to let all the former posts be repeated. It's a waste of space and time in scrolling. I don't know why people do that. So many people continually repeating the previous posts in their replies. For what reason ??? This subject had all the previous replies repeated in at least six reply posts. I've seen it time and time again in this group. For what ???? Why do so many people repeat all the same posts over and over again when they post a reply????? Waste of our time scrolling, and waste of storage space. My choices: 1. ALH84001 2. Allende 3. Zagami 4. Murchison 5. NWA 482 (Of course the Apollo samples lower its scientific value, but I have NWA 482. :) I can't get any Apollo samples :( 6. Tagish Lake 7. Abee 8. l'Aigle 9. NWA 1877 10. Esquel From eric at meteoritewatch.com Mon Feb 16 03:16:27 2009 From: eric at meteoritewatch.com (Eric Wichman) Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 00:16:27 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fiery debris seen in Texas skies not from satellite collision, officials say In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <499920DB.8060103@meteoritewatch.com> Fiery debris seen in Texas skies not from satellite collision, officials say 11:20 PM CST on Sunday, February 15, 2009 By RUDOLPH BUSH / The Dallas Morning News rbush at dallasnews.com Fiery debris burned through the Texas sky Sunday morning, alarming some and enchanting others but resulting in no apparent injury or damage. Video From Dallas to Austin and beyond, sightings were reported of a red and orange fireball with a small black center speeding toward Earth before burning out in a trail of lingering white smoke. Roland Herwig, spokesman for the Federal Aviation Administration?s southwest division, said the fireball was probably superheated debris from a broken satellite falling to Earth. The FAA could not directly link the debris to the reported collision last week of Russian and U.S. communications satellites, however. ?It?s yet to be proved it?s those satellites,? Herwig said. However, a spokeswoman for U.S. Strategic Command said the fireball spotted in the Texas skies Sunday was unrelated to the satellite collision. Air Force Major Regina Winchester said that Joint Space Operations Center at California?s Vandenberg Air Force Base has been monitoring the debris from the collision, and that could not have caused the dramatic sight. She also said the fireball was not related to the estimated 18,000 man-made objects that the center also monitors. ?There was no predicted re-entry,? Winchester said about the objects in Earth?s orbit. She said it could possibly have been a natural phenomenon such as a meteorite. It?s unclear exactly how many pieces of debris tumbled toward Texas or whether any more are on the way. The potential danger from debris did prompt the FAA to warn pilots nationwide to be aware of the hazard and to immediately report any sightings. State emergency management officials and local law enforcement agencies also were on alert across much of Texas. Based on reports of a fireball near Waco, local law enforcement officers searched for debris but found nothing, a Texas Department of Public Safety spokeswoman said. Though no one could pinpoint where the debris fell or if it even remained intact through the burnout, the fireball left an impression on those who saw it. They say it burned anywhere from a few seconds to nearly a minute. And in some areas, particularly in East Texas, there were reports of a sonic boom. While it may not be clear for some time what fell from the sky, it seemed to be a singular event. Most sightings in Texas were reported about 11 a.m. Some people thought it was a meteor. Others thought perhaps it was a plane crashing. Doug Schmidt of Richardson was driving south on Central Expressway near the Bush Turnpike when he saw a flash of light in the sky. ?It was like a ball of flame with a tail. It looked like a meteor,? he said. ?There was flame and then a flash and smoke trailing it. I said ?Wow, look at that.? ? Farther south, in Ovilla, Chris Weaver said he stepped outside and just by chance looked south. That?s when he saw a flash of orange moving fast in the sky before burning into a streak of white smoke. ?If you were looking up at the southern sky, you couldn?t miss it,? he said. There have been scattered reports across the country of debris falling to Earth since the Russian and U.S. satellites collided Tuesday about 500 miles above Earth. The collision occurred over Siberia and sheared thousands of shards of debris through Earth?s orbit. Pieces of that debris will continue to float through orbit for thousands of years or more, while other pieces will at times fall to Earth, probably likely burning up as they pass through the atmosphere, experts say. Staff writer Jeff Mosier and The Associated Press contributed to this report. SOURCE: http://www.quickdfw.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localnews/stories/021609dnmetdebris.1c083e1f.html If you have any info on this meteor/fireball I would greatly appreciate any info you could provide. Thanks! http://www.meteoritesusa.com/blog/meteorite-information/report-a-fireball/ Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA From Carsten.Giessler at t-online.de Mon Feb 16 03:31:46 2009 From: Carsten.Giessler at t-online.de (Carsten Giessler) Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 09:31:46 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Incredible New Fresh L3,W0/1 - Presale !! Message-ID: <49992472.8020009@t-online.de> Dear List, this week we like to introduce our new stunning and very fresh L3 Chondrite from NWA. The classification is in progress, it's likely done, we already received a few data's. Of course the buyers will be informed by us about the result right after we received it. This fresh L3 chondrite shows a nice slightly blueish/grey brecciated matrix with a lot of chondrules, clasts & inclusions. With the weathering grade of W0/1 this is one of the most freshest L3 chondrite which ever came out of the deserts of North West Africa! See pictures of this beautiful material here: http://www.gi-po.de/meteorit_verkauf_l3pre.html Many thanks for viewing, best regards Carsten Giessler From lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu Mon Feb 16 09:33:22 2009 From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu (lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu) Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 07:33:22 -0700 (MST) Subject: [meteorite-list] looks promising...for something In-Reply-To: <758375.61910.qm@web55201.mail.re4.yahoo.com> References: <822da19a0902151844w6f50dd2fjd94baa9b2356940@mail.gmail.com> <758375.61910.qm@web55201.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <62656.71.226.60.25.1234794802.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> Hi Elton: How many fireballs, etc. have been seen recently? I know there have been a bunch, but would like to know how many there have been if anyone is keeping a tally. We have our regular "asteroid lunch" here in Tucson today and this would make an interesting topic for our group. Thanks Larry On Sun, February 15, 2009 8:45 pm, Mr EMan wrote: > > > I believe I've run to ground the space debris/ satellite collision/ > Fireball confusion but see no way to get it back into Pandora's Box. What > happens on the Internet stays in the Internet! > > A Notice to AIRMEM(NOTAM) was issued for the expected re-entry of an ISS > resupply rocket booster over Alberta Canada for approx 3-3:15 PM Friday > 13 Feb. NOTAMS are national/international for aircraft flying into the > affected region. This booster was on time but skipped back and finally > reentered over the South Atlantic off the West coast of Africa 15 min > later. The NOTAM did not immediately expire I forget how long NOTAMs > remain in effect. > > A reporter called the FAA who called the National Weather Service or vice > versa regarding a fireball over Kentucky and some mal-informed > representative sees the Alberta NOTAM all the while reports of a > satellite collision are still creeping across the CNN screen and connects > the wrong two plus two. > > It is picked up by the news wire and suddenly the sky is falling > everywhere as parts of the Iridium and Kosmos suddenly start dropping > straight down from orbit Wiley Coyote/Hollywood style--Oh yeah and > starting barn fires in Lily Kentucky which never stop burning and can't > be extinguished. DUH! > > Back to a general note: we are seeing weekly and monthly spaced major > fireballs including large meteorite falls. Statistics tell me that we are > only sampling a portion of a much larger asteroidal debris field in > crossing earth orbit. Is anyone aware of a more formal study accessing a > distant collision in the asteroid belt that has sent a fresh supply of > material our way? I surmised a few years ago that Feb also seemed to > have a cluster of falls toward the end of the month. Has anyone on the > list looked at the fall log or fireball log at Amsmeteors.org for any > recurring clusters? Be back later, I am finishing my Kevlar titanium > umbrella hard hat. > > Elton > --- On Sun, 2/15/09, Dark Matter wrote: > > >> From: Dark Matter >> Subject: [meteorite-list] looks promising...for something >> To: "Meteorite List" >> Date: Sunday, February 15, 2009, 9:44 PM >> Texans report fireball in sky, sonic booms >> >> >> -Video shot in Austin, Texas, shows meteor-like object in >> sky Sunday morning -Fireball sightings, reports of sonic booms come days >> after satellite collision in space -FAA told U.S. pilots to watch for >> "falling space >> debris" -No reports of ground strikes or interference with >> aircraft, FAA spokesman says >> >> (CNN) -- Sonic booms and at least one fireball in the sky >> were reported in Texas on Sunday, less than a week after two satellites >> collided in space and a day after the Federal Aviation Administration >> asked U.S. pilots to watch for "falling space debris," authorities said. >> >> http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/02/15/texas.sky.debris/index.html >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From axelsson at acc.umu.se Mon Feb 16 09:47:51 2009 From: axelsson at acc.umu.se (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=F6ran_Axelsson?=) Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 15:47:51 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] looks promising...for something In-Reply-To: <62656.71.226.60.25.1234794802.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> References: <822da19a0902151844w6f50dd2fjd94baa9b2356940@mail.gmail.com> <758375.61910.qm@web55201.mail.re4.yahoo.com> <62656.71.226.60.25.1234794802.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> Message-ID: <49997C97.8040004@acc.umu.se> Another one in southern Sweden yesterday. Complete with light and sound. Short notes in Swedish : http://svt.se/svt/jsp/Crosslink.jsp?d=58360&a=1445278&printerfriendly=true http://svt.se/svt/jsp/Crosslink.jsp?d=58360&a=1446198&printerfriendly=true http://svt.se/svt/jsp/Crosslink.jsp?d=58360&a=1445221&printerfriendly=true "For a short while the night was turned into day." according to an amateur astronomer. /G?ran lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu wrote: > Hi Elton: > > How many fireballs, etc. have been seen recently? I know there have been a > bunch, but would like to know how many there have been if anyone is > keeping a tally. > > We have our regular "asteroid lunch" here in Tucson today and this would > make an interesting topic for our group. > > Thanks > > Larry > > On Sun, February 15, 2009 8:45 pm, Mr EMan wrote: > > > >> I believe I've run to ground the space debris/ satellite collision/ >> Fireball confusion but see no way to get it back into Pandora's Box. What >> happens on the Internet stays in the Internet! >> >> A Notice to AIRMEM(NOTAM) was issued for the expected re-entry of an ISS >> resupply rocket booster over Alberta Canada for approx 3-3:15 PM Friday >> 13 Feb. NOTAMS are national/international for aircraft flying into the >> affected region. This booster was on time but skipped back and finally >> reentered over the South Atlantic off the West coast of Africa 15 min >> later. The NOTAM did not immediately expire I forget how long NOTAMs >> remain in effect. >> >> A reporter called the FAA who called the National Weather Service or vice >> versa regarding a fireball over Kentucky and some mal-informed >> representative sees the Alberta NOTAM all the while reports of a >> satellite collision are still creeping across the CNN screen and connects >> the wrong two plus two. >> >> It is picked up by the news wire and suddenly the sky is falling >> everywhere as parts of the Iridium and Kosmos suddenly start dropping >> straight down from orbit Wiley Coyote/Hollywood style--Oh yeah and >> starting barn fires in Lily Kentucky which never stop burning and can't >> be extinguished. DUH! >> >> Back to a general note: we are seeing weekly and monthly spaced major >> fireballs including large meteorite falls. Statistics tell me that we are >> only sampling a portion of a much larger asteroidal debris field in >> crossing earth orbit. Is anyone aware of a more formal study accessing a >> distant collision in the asteroid belt that has sent a fresh supply of >> material our way? I surmised a few years ago that Feb also seemed to >> have a cluster of falls toward the end of the month. Has anyone on the >> list looked at the fall log or fireball log at Amsmeteors.org for any >> recurring clusters? Be back later, I am finishing my Kevlar titanium >> umbrella hard hat. >> >> Elton >> --- On Sun, 2/15/09, Dark Matter wrote: >> >> >> >>> From: Dark Matter >>> Subject: [meteorite-list] looks promising...for something >>> To: "Meteorite List" >>> Date: Sunday, February 15, 2009, 9:44 PM >>> Texans report fireball in sky, sonic booms >>> >>> >>> -Video shot in Austin, Texas, shows meteor-like object in >>> sky Sunday morning -Fireball sightings, reports of sonic booms come days >>> after satellite collision in space -FAA told U.S. pilots to watch for >>> "falling space >>> debris" -No reports of ground strikes or interference with >>> aircraft, FAA spokesman says >>> >>> (CNN) -- Sonic booms and at least one fireball in the sky >>> were reported in Texas on Sunday, less than a week after two satellites >>> collided in space and a day after the Federal Aviation Administration >>> asked U.S. pilots to watch for "falling space debris," authorities said. >>> >>> http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/02/15/texas.sky.debris/index.html >>> ______________________________________________ >>> From Carsten.Giessler at t-online.de Mon Feb 16 10:24:07 2009 From: Carsten.Giessler at t-online.de (Carsten Giessler) Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 16:24:07 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Trying to reach Bob King Message-ID: <49998517.9040308@t-online.de> Hello List, i tried to reach Bob King, but all emails came back marked as "mail delivery failed". I used this email adress of him: rking at duluthnews.com Maybe someone have a working email adress of Bob? Many thanks. Sorry for this "not meteorite related" topic. Best greetings, Carsten From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Mon Feb 16 11:49:11 2009 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 17:49:11 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Might Something Need To Be Done Department In-Reply-To: References: <75669.80684.qm@web51304.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001f01c99056$7e734300$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Hi Pat, the Bulletin Database has as tkw for Allende of 2 metric tons = 2000kg. (And some say 3 tons). It felt at a time, where naturally there weren't such myopic laws like today and there were less collectors than today. And it felt in a country with good accessibility. To make it short: Allende was the NWA 869 of the 70ies. It's a little bit similar to Millbillillie, Sometimes collectors ask, why an NWA-EUC can cost more than a Millbillillie. But if you check the stats: Every second eucrite is a Millbillillie :-) Murchison had a relatively high tkw. Also a few collectors and Australia was still a free country, a meteorite-democracy. I often told the anecdote, a German veteran collector told me. He came to know of the Murchison fall by a short note in a newspaper. So he wrote a letter, asking about the circumstances and what had happened, and sent it to Murchison, Australia. Weeks later he received a parcel, with a nice answer, cause they were astonished and amazed that someone from so far away was interested in what had happened in their little town and as a little tank you, a 100g+ sample of Murchison was included. Allende could be one of the reasons for the misconception of some, who are bemoaning that the prices of meteorites pretendendly would have "soared" and who have the imagination that in earlier years meteorites cost virtually nothing. But Allende was always one of the exceptions, cause of its mass availability. Best! Martin > > Murchison TKW 100Kg per the Meteoritical Bulletin > Allende TKW >100Kg per the Meteoritical Bulletin > From darryl at dof3.com Mon Feb 16 12:34:32 2009 From: darryl at dof3.com (Darryl Pitt) Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 12:34:32 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Might Something Need To Be Done Department In-Reply-To: <001f01c99056$7e734300$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> References: <75669.80684.qm@web51304.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <001f01c99056$7e734300$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: <5A1A714B-DF2F-4D8F-A984-481CB00AD0B2@dof3.com> Hiya.... Every meteorite which is sold at an inexplicably low price is the result of a particular "event," and the contamination that results from such events can take years or decades to be corrected. The situation between Millbillillie and Allende is not really similar, and the story with Millbillillie is as follows: My memory is a bit shaky, but it was around 1990 there was a Millbillillie price war at a Denver show. An American dealer and an Australian dealer had a go at it---and there was room to go down because even though Millbillillie first arrived in the U.S at $10/g wholesale---a large shipment subsequently landed stateside for $1/g. I personally witnessed the price of Millbillillie plummet precipitously over a period of hours from $20 to less than $2, and I ended up buying Millbillillie at $2/g that year and the year following. Millbillillie's value is still compromised as a result of selling so inexpensively; inordinately low prices possess their own "memory gravity" (unless of course there is another "event" which provides the correction). All best / d, On Feb 16, 2009, at 11:49 AM, Martin Altmann wrote: > Hi Pat, > > the Bulletin Database has as tkw for Allende of 2 metric tons = > 2000kg. > (And some say 3 tons). > > It felt at a time, where naturally there weren't such myopic laws > like today > and there were less collectors than today. And it felt in a country > with > good accessibility. > > To make it short: Allende was the NWA 869 of the 70ies. > > It's a little bit similar to Millbillillie, > Sometimes collectors ask, why an NWA-EUC can cost more than a > Millbillillie. > But if you check the stats: Every second eucrite is a > Millbillillie :-) > > > Murchison had a relatively high tkw. > Also a few collectors and Australia was still a free country, a > meteorite-democracy. > I often told the anecdote, a German veteran collector told me. > He came to know of the Murchison fall by a short note in a newspaper. > So he wrote a letter, asking about the circumstances and what had > happened, > and sent it to Murchison, Australia. > Weeks later he received a parcel, with a nice answer, cause they were > astonished and amazed that someone from so far away was interested > in what > had happened in their little town and as a little tank you, a 100g+ > sample > of Murchison was included. > > Allende could be one of the reasons for the misconception of some, > who are > bemoaning that the prices of meteorites pretendendly would have > "soared" > and who have the imagination that in earlier years meteorites cost > virtually > nothing. > But Allende was always one of the exceptions, cause of its mass > availability. > > Best! > Martin > > >> >> Murchison TKW 100Kg per the Meteoritical Bulletin >> Allende TKW >100Kg per the Meteoritical Bulletin >> > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From darryl at dof3.com Mon Feb 16 12:38:53 2009 From: darryl at dof3.com (Darryl Pitt) Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 12:38:53 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] correction / Might Something Need To Be Done Department References: <5A1A714B-DF2F-4D8F-A984-481CB00AD0B2@dof3.com> Message-ID: <2BCF67D0-DB43-4CA1-A31C-713B929D5C8E@dof3.com> Sorry.... I meant to write..... "Millbillillie's value is still compromised as a result of it once having sold so inexpensively." d, Begin forwarded message: > From: Darryl Pitt > Date: February 16, 2009 12:34:32 PM EST > To: "Martin Altmann" > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Might Something Need To Be Done > Department > > > > Hiya.... > > Every meteorite which is sold at an inexplicably low price is the > result of a particular "event," and the contamination that results > from such events can take years or decades to be corrected. > > The situation between Millbillillie and Allende is not really > similar, and the story with Millbillillie is as follows: > > My memory is a bit shaky, but it was around 1990 there was a > Millbillillie price war at a Denver show. An American dealer and an > Australian dealer had a go at it---and there was room to go down > because even though Millbillillie first arrived in the U.S at $10/g > wholesale---a large shipment subsequently landed stateside for $1/ > g. I personally witnessed the price of Millbillillie plummet > precipitously over a period of hours from $20 to less than $2, and I > ended up buying Millbillillie at $2/g that year and the year > following. Millbillillie's value is still compromised as a result > of selling so inexpensively; inordinately low prices possess their > own "memory gravity" (unless of course there is another "event" > which provides the correction). > > > All best / d, > > > > > On Feb 16, 2009, at 11:49 AM, Martin Altmann wrote: > >> Hi Pat, >> >> the Bulletin Database has as tkw for Allende of 2 metric tons = >> 2000kg. >> (And some say 3 tons). >> >> It felt at a time, where naturally there weren't such myopic laws >> like today >> and there were less collectors than today. And it felt in a country >> with >> good accessibility. >> >> To make it short: Allende was the NWA 869 of the 70ies. >> >> It's a little bit similar to Millbillillie, >> Sometimes collectors ask, why an NWA-EUC can cost more than a >> Millbillillie. >> But if you check the stats: Every second eucrite is a >> Millbillillie :-) >> >> >> Murchison had a relatively high tkw. >> Also a few collectors and Australia was still a free country, a >> meteorite-democracy. >> I often told the anecdote, a German veteran collector told me. >> He came to know of the Murchison fall by a short note in a newspaper. >> So he wrote a letter, asking about the circumstances and what had >> happened, >> and sent it to Murchison, Australia. >> Weeks later he received a parcel, with a nice answer, cause they were >> astonished and amazed that someone from so far away was interested >> in what >> had happened in their little town and as a little tank you, a 100g+ >> sample >> of Murchison was included. >> >> Allende could be one of the reasons for the misconception of some, >> who are >> bemoaning that the prices of meteorites pretendendly would have >> "soared" >> and who have the imagination that in earlier years meteorites cost >> virtually >> nothing. >> But Allende was always one of the exceptions, cause of its mass >> availability. >> >> Best! >> Martin >> >> >>> >>> Murchison TKW 100Kg per the Meteoritical Bulletin >>> Allende TKW >100Kg per the Meteoritical Bulletin >>> >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From catoni52 at sympatico.ca Mon Feb 16 12:42:40 2009 From: catoni52 at sympatico.ca (catoni52 at sympatico.ca) Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 17:42:40 +0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] Multiple Repeats of Posts, and No Nmae Signed. Off Topic, Apologies Message-ID: Greetings: My sincere apologies that this is off topic. Someone in the group emailed me wondering why I didn't sign my post about constant repeats of previous posts. The person asked: "Why don't you bother signing your own posts???? Who are you and what are you afraid of ????? Thanks." I belong to several groups, in both Google Groups and Yahoo Groups, and the one I happen to be most active in is a group with very strong emotionally charged arguments back and forth about whether or not Global Warming is man-made, or natural. It gets very nasty at times with personal ad hominems, and worse. In this group, most of our names are in already listed in the From section and many people either use a fake name, or do not sign for other reasons. Many of us are used to simply not signing there, although I sometimes sign my name as "Catoni" . But in that group my name of "Catoni" is already in the post beginning. So my apologies for not signing in my post. Just a case of being used to not signing all the time I guess. And my apologies again that this post is off topic. Robert Charles Williamson St. Catharines, Canada From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Mon Feb 16 12:45:20 2009 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 18:45:20 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Hint for meteorite coin fans: wonderfully elegant Moon meteorite coin. Message-ID: <002201c9905e$58dbdfa0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Hello, I noticed at earlier opportunities, that here on the list are also quite a bunch of meteorite-coin-fans, so I thought, maybe that could be of interest for them. Recently there was issued a new Moon coin with a piece of the lunaite NWA 4881. I personally don't like that much meteorite coins, medals, tokens, cause for my personal taste they're looking to me often somewhat plump and comic-like styled. But this one is very tasteful and elegant in my eyes. http://kuerzer.de/4881coin I like that idea, that the body of the coin is the Moon itself. The averse and the reverse show the relief of the front- and backside of the Moon, fine also that the coin has no bulky rim around. On the front, there is mounted into the mare Imbrium a piece of the Moon meteorite NWA 4881. Material is .925er silver with an antique finish, It's a silver Moon. Occasion was 50 years Luna 3 & 40 years Moon landing. Note also the 50ies-style font. Edition was 1969 pieces. Cook Islands, 5 dollars, 2009. Quality is Proof. Weight is 25grams, diameter 38.6mm Problem is, I learned, that the whole edition was already sold out, but that coin-dealer, where I gave the link to, has still some remainders left. So in case, one shouldn't wait to long. To clarify: I've nothing to do with that sale, we are not selling this coin. (On contrary, I had to order from there my coin too. My first and only meteorite coin). Best! Martin From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Mon Feb 16 13:05:02 2009 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 10:05:02 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Fireball Influx Message-ID: <421309.19494.qm@web55206.mail.re4.yahoo.com> As to how many fireballs I know of 3 major ones in 36-48 hours over US and Canada this past weekend:Kentucky, Texas, Alberta(not the rocket booster) Now G?ran reports another in Sweden Sunday. So that is 4 over civilization with an unknown number over water etc. Starting to look like a Hollywood plot. The Texas daylight Fireball was caught on video tape and in many informed opinions conclude this could not have been space debris-- but that is the FAA's story and they are wearing it out till the holiday is over it seems. I see that the USAF has stepped up to refute the FAA's unfounded proclamation this was from the satellite collision aftermath. No one has asked NASA's opinion. NASA is in shock for the time being shaking its head in disbelief, looking at a possibility that manned orbital stations will be too unsafe to for occupation--possibly killing the next generation of shuttles. Space Command is dodging blame as to who should have seen the Iridium 33 and Kosomos satellites " trying to occupy the same very small point in space at the same very same time" to quote my old geometry teacher. We've also have 2 possibly 3 major meteorite falls around the world since late November and tens of fireballs reported since then. This is an unusual cluster of larger events which are usually spaced out more( no pun) but nothing yet suggests anything ominous but that might be changing as new data arrives. I suspect the Canadian Meteorite and Impact Advisory Committee and, the less formally organized US equivalent, will be busy this week sorting out the fireball swarm after working on the implications of two major space powers allowing two large satellites to T-bone each other in what statistically should be in the million or billion to one range. This is the scariest part of last week in the "OOps I thought YOU were driving" chicken contest. Elton From mccartney at blackbearddata.com Mon Feb 16 13:11:16 2009 From: mccartney at blackbearddata.com (McCartney Taylor) Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 12:11:16 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Sonic boom - Size of object Message-ID: How large a object would be needed for someone on the ground to hear a sonic boom? In other words, could satellite debris create sonic booms? From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Mon Feb 16 13:37:28 2009 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 10:37:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] More Twilight Zone Stuff: Red Rain Rapidly Rears when Roasted Message-ID: <219673.64573.qm@web55204.mail.re4.yahoo.com> >From Last Fall but I missed the part about it multiplying when heated to 300C Report: cells ?from space? have unusual makeup Sept. 8, 2008 Special to World Science A line?age of odd mi?crobes that may have crashed in?to Earth aboard a me?te?or in 2001 seem to con?tain mo?le?cules not found in Earthly cells, two sci?en?tists are re?port?ing. Al?though many re?main skep?ti?cal over the re?mark?a?ble claim of mi?nus?cule ex?tra?ter?res?tri?al vis?i?tors, God?frey Lou?is, head of the phys?ics de?part?ment at Co?chin Uni?ver?s?ity of Sci?ence and Tech?nol?o?gy in In?dia, pre?sented the find?ings at a sci?en?tif?ic con?fer?ence in San Die?go on Aug. 12. The mys?ter?ious orbs give off a blue fluor?es?cence un?der ul?tra?vio?let light, ac?cord?ing to re?search?ers. (Courtesy G. Louis & A. S. Kumar) The meet?ing was or?gan?ized by SPIE, the In?terna?t?ional So?ci?e?ty for Op?ti?cal En?gi?neer?ing. The ac?ro?nym re?flects its form?er name as So?ci?e?ty of Photo-Op?ti?cal In?stru?menta?t?ion En?gi?neers. The mi?crobes give off un?sual sorts of flu?o?res?cence un?der spe?cif?ic light?ing con?di?tions, which fol?low pat?terns nev?er seen in nor?mal cells, ac?cord?ing to Lou?is and San?thosh Ku?mar of Ma?hat?ma Gan?dhi Uni?ver?s?ity in In?dia, co-authors of the re?port. The likely ex?plana?t?ion, they added, is that the par?t?i?cles con?tain mo?le?cules not found in Earthly or?gan?isms. Lou?is and Kumar pre?vi?ously re?ported that the odd part?i?cles con?tain no DNA, al?though they rep?li?cate abun?dantly in fe?ro?cious heat by spawn?ing new ?cells? from with?in them?selves. It was these off?spring whose flu?o?res?cence prop?er?ties the pair tested. Mys?te?ri?ous, ti?ny red glob?ules fell to Earth in a red rain that pelted parts of south?ern In?dia spo?rad?ic?ally for about two months in 2001, caus?ing wide?spread puz?zle?ment. The event, how?ev?er, was the lat?est in a se?ries of re?ports of col?ored rains from var?i?ous places stretch?ing back cen?turies, some bet?ter doc?u?mented than oth?ers. Lou?is and Kumar say the orbs could be cells from space be?cause they have bi?o?log?i?cal char?ac?ter?is?tics but match no known life form. A space rock could have bro?ken up in the at?mos?phere and seeded clouds with these org?an?isms, the pair ar?gues, citing wit?ness reports of an air?burst just before the showers. Oth?er sci?en?tists have con?ced?ed the par?t?i?cles are mys?ti?fy?ing, but the claim of live cells from space is so bi?zarre that many are hold?ing back any as?sent. Some note that the haz?ards of jour?ney through space, in?clud?ing in?tense radia?t?ion and ex?tra?or?di?nary trav?el times, make the pos?si?bil?ity of bac?te?ri?al trans?fer among dif?fer?ent so?lar sys?tems un?like?ly. ?Ex?changes of bac?te?ria be?tween plan?ets in dif?fer?ent so?lar sys?tems are only pos?si?ble dur?ing the birth clus?ter stage of the sys?tems,? when they?re sit?u?at?ed close to?geth?er in a star clus?ter, wrote sci?en?tists with NASA and oth?er in?sti?tu?tions in a re?port this month. Our own so?lar sys?tem is far from be?ing in such a stage. That pa?per has been ac?cept?ed for pub?lica?t?ion in the re?search jour?nal As?t?ro?phys?i?cal Jour?nal Let?ters. On the oth?er hand, re?search?ers with Kris?tian?stad Uni?ver?s?ity in Swe?den and oth?er in?sti?tu?tions re?ported on Sept. 8 that some ti?ny Earth an?i?mals called tardi?grades proved sur?pris?ingly re?sil?ient in out?er space. Dried-out tardi?grades lived for 10 days un?pro?tected in that en?vi?ron?ment, and went on to re?pro?duce, these sci?en?tists wrote in the Sept. 9 is?sue of the re?search jour?nal Cur?rent Bi?ol?o?gy. Lou?is and Ku?mar are per?sist?ing in their stud?ies; their ideas have gained sup?port from fig?ures such as Chan?dra Wick?ra?mas?inghe, di?rec?tor of the Car?diff Cen?tre for As?tro?bi?ol?o?gy at Car?diff Uni?ver?s?ity, U.K. In his pre?s?enta?t?ion, Lou?is said that ?red cell? spawns un?der var?i?ous light?ing con?di?tions ex?h?bited prop?er?ties vi?o?lat?ing a sci?en?tif?ic prin?ci?ple known as Kasha?s Rule, found to have few ex?cep?tions else?where. The rule has to do with flu?o?res?cence, the phe?nom?e?non in which a sub?stance emits light of one col?or up?on stimula?t?ion by light from anoth?er col?or. Kasha?s rule holds that in gen?er?al, the col?or of the ar?riv?ing light and the emit?ted light are un?re?lat?ed. To the con?tra?ry, Lou?is found that in the red glob?ules? ?off?spring,? alone among cells on Earth, these col?ors are re?lat?ed by a dis?tinct pat?tern. ?Hence the pres?ence of new kind of bio-mo?le?cules can be in?ferred,? Lou?is wrote in the pre?sented pa?per. ?Or?gan?isms repli?cat?ing at 300 de?grees [Cel?si?us] and show?ing this kind of autoflu?o?res?cence are cur?rently un?known to ex?ist on earth yet sev?er?al thou?sand kilo?grams of these cells came down through the red rain.? The orig?i?nal par?ent cells are al?so un?der flu?o?res?cence test?ing and re?sults will be re?ported lat?er, Lou?is said. From Thetoprok at aol.com Mon Feb 16 13:59:38 2009 From: Thetoprok at aol.com (Thetoprok at aol.com) Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 13:59:38 EST Subject: [meteorite-list] Advertisement 7.8 g Park Forest Message-ID: Hello List, I would like to offer a 7.8 gram part slice of the 638 gram Park Forest that my brother found on Saturday, March 29, 2003. This stone was pictured in the July 2003 Sky and Telescope magazine. This would be a fine addition to any collection, but even more so if you have the magazine to go with it. Serious offers only please, email me for pictures. The highest acceptable offer received by 10:00 PM eastern time tomorrow, Feb. 16 will get this piece. There is a small amount of crust on the slice. Thanks, Larry Atkins **************Need a job? Find an employment agency near you. (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=employment_agencies&ncid=emlcntusyelp00000003) From Thetoprok at aol.com Mon Feb 16 14:05:33 2009 From: Thetoprok at aol.com (Thetoprok at aol.com) Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 14:05:33 EST Subject: [meteorite-list] Correction! Message-ID: Ending is tomorrow, Feb 17 (not 16)10:00 PM eastern time. Thanks **************Need a job? Find an employment agency near you. (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=employment_agencies&ncid=emlcntusyelp00000003) From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Mon Feb 16 17:50:50 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 14:50:50 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] FAA Warns of Possible Falling Satellite Debris Message-ID: <200902162250.OAA29071@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://www.spaceflightnow.com/news/n0902/15debris/ FAA warns of possible falling satellite debris BY WILLIAM HARWOOD STORY WRITTEN FOR CBS NEWS "SPACE PLACE" & USED WITH PERMISSION February 15, 2009 The Federal Aviation Administration issued a warning to pilots and aircrews Saturday advising them to be on the lookout for possible "re-entry of satellite debris," presumably from an unprecedented satellite collision in space last week. Today, there were reports in Texas of at least one fireball and sounds of an explosion - possibly a sonic boom - but an FAA spokesman said it was not yet known whether the sightings involved satellite debris and if so, whether it came from either destroyed spacecraft. It's also possible the fireball was the result of a large meteor burning up in the atmosphere. "Late this morning, people started reporting to law enforcement there was a quote-unquote fireball and some people reported an explosion, which we suspect was probably a sonic boom," said Roland Herwig, a spokesman for the FAA's Southwest Region. "We had put out, the FAA had put out a notice to airmen, called a NOTAM, yesterday morning for pilots, for air crews to be on the lookout for space debris re-entering and and if they see anything to let the FAA know the location, the direction of travel, anything else they could about that. The notice to airmen says we suspect, we don't know, that this debris is from the two satellites that collided last week." The actual NOTAM, however, does not mention the space collision Tuesday between a commercial Iridium telephone satellite and a defunct Russian communications station known as Cosmos 2251. In any case, Herwig told reporters today there was no immediate "evidence of damage, no evidence of injuries, no evidence of anyone yet finding a chunk of satellite." "We told the sheriff's departments, police departments, that people should be cautious around any debris that they do find," he said in a 5:30 p.m. EST teleconference. "But we have not gotten feedback on any debris. Nor have any aircrews reported anything." He said until someone recovers actual debris, it may be impossible to tell whether the sightings involved wreckage from the Iridium-Cosmos crash, some other satellite or debris from a meteor. He said the Limestone County sheriff's office reported contact from someone who claimed to have a picture of the fireball and a smoke trail and a Plano, Texas, police cruiser may have capture images from a dashboard camera. The collision between the Iridium-33 satellite and Cosmos 2251 occurred over northern Siberia at an altitude of about 490 miles around noon Tuesday. It was the first such collision in space history. An analysis of the orbits by Analytical Graphics Inc. concluded the spacecraft crashed into each other at some 15,000 mph, creating two large clouds of debris that continued along each spacecraft's orbital track. The Cosmos ground track did not appear to cross the United States earlier today, but the Iridium's orbit did, according to widely available satellite tracking software. Whether any debris from the relatively small, presumably shredded satellite could have re-entered from the initially high altitude and caused the sort of fireball reported in Texas was not known. Here is the NOTAM that was posted Saturday by the FAA: "FDC 9/5902 FDC .. SPECIAL NOTICE .. EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE. AIRCRAFT ARE ADVISED THAT A POTENTIAL HAZARD MAY OCCUR DUE TO REENTRY OF SATELLITE DEBRIS INTO THE EARTHS ATMOSPHERE. FURTHER NOTAMS WILL BE ISSUED IF MORE INFORMATION BECOMES AVAILABLE. IN THE INTEREST OF FLIGHT SAFETY, IT IS CRITICAL THAT ALL PILOTS/FLIGHT CREW MEMBERS REPORT ANY OBSERVED FALLING SPACE DEBRIS TO THE APPROPRIATE ATC FACILITY TO INCLUDE POSITION, ALTITUDE, TIME, AND DIRECTION OF DEBRIS OBSERVED." Herwig said he did not know what prompted the NOTAM or whether it originated with U.S. Strategic Command, which tracks satellites and space debris, or some other organization. "It's usually something that's passed on to us by law enforcement or some other agency to create a notice," he said. "The notice is open ended, it says 'effective immediately until further notice, a potential hazard may occur due to re-entry of satellite debris.'" From epgrondine at yahoo.com Mon Feb 16 17:54:28 2009 From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine) Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 14:54:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Report increases and debris streams Message-ID: <966911.4610.qm@web36906.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi Elton, all - Elton - "Back to a general note: we are seeing weekly and monthly spaced major fireballs including large meteorite falls." Perhaps this is just the effect of the internet, along with the realization that the falls can lead to cash. "Statistics tell me that we are only sampling a portion of a much larger asteroidal debris field in crossing earth orbit." I don't know if the intersections of the Earth with either cometary or asteroidal debris streams would necessarily be annual. What you probably would need to do would be to sort known falls by type, subtract days between falls, and then look for multiples. That's about as far as I can take this kind of analysis now, and I know it's less than what would be needed. Imagine the result if you will: "Ah, March 12. Well tonight perhaps a nice pallasite is going to fall at 3 in the morning. Time to start up the old fireball survey system. Wonder what it will have for us tomorrow morning?" E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas From JPBrockets at aol.com Mon Feb 16 18:06:16 2009 From: JPBrockets at aol.com (JPBrockets at aol.com) Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 18:06:16 EST Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Mount Tazerzait and NWA 1099 Message-ID: Dear List Members: Offered are Mount Tazerzait and NWA 1099. For those interested please take a look. http://collectibles.shop.ebay.com/items/Rocks-Fossils-Minerals__W0QQ_catrefZ1Q Q_flnZ1QQ_sacatZ3213QQ_sopZ14QQ_ssnZjpbrocketsQQ_trksidZp3911Q2ec0Q2em282 Thanks for your time. Juris jpbrockets at aol.com **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1218822736x1201267884/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=fe bemailfooterNO62) From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Mon Feb 16 18:15:08 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 15:15:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Both Mars Rovers Keep on Rolling, Despite Spirit's Recent 'Benign Event' Message-ID: <200902162315.PAA14927@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/Feb09/SpiritUpdate.ws.html Chronicle Online e-News Both Mars rovers keep on rolling, despite Spirit's recent 'benign event' Feb. 16, 2009 By Bill Steele ws21 at cornell.edu The Mars rover Spirit is ambling along just fine, after a recently reported glitch that turned out to be a minor "benign event," according to Steven Squyres, the Goldwin Smith Professor of Planetary Science and science team leader for the Mars rover mission. That means that both rovers, designed to explore Mars for a mere 90 days, are still up and running some five years after landing. Exactly what happened to Spirit recently may never be resolved, Squyres said, "Right now we're proceeding as if everything's fine." On sol 1800 (the 1,800th Martian day after Spirit landed), the rover's computer booted up in a mode that prevented it from writing to its memory, so there was no record of what it had been doing for a period of time. "This makes it hard to troubleshoot," Squyres said. The most likely explanation, he said, was that a cosmic ray passing through the chip briefly disrupted processing. Spirit is currently at the northern edge of a plateau informally called Home Plate, where it spent the